Will a “Super 800” ever come out?

spacerocker

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I am am not sophisticated in the theory or practice of electrical engineering (and I could be wrong), but I am not buying this. Transformers and other components supplying power and interacting with components “X“ does not strike me as = to those same core components interacting with components “2-3X”. I believe that to make that work you need more robust or differently valued components to bring the same result in line, which add their idiosyncracies.

I'm not going to get into a protracted discussion about this - but I am an electronics engineer, and I do know the 2203 and JVM circuits very well....I never said that the JVM Crunch Orange circuit and the 2203 circuit are identical but i did say that they are 95% the same, the main differences being a handful of component values...

But the point I was making is that just adding a relay contact (i.e. a switch) into a circuit design will not affect it's tone or feel at all...I confess I didn't competely understand your post - but I think the point you were making was that if you change one small part of a circuit, it has a knock-on effect on the feel and sound of the whole amp. Whilst I think there is some truth in this, when we are talking about radicaly changing circuit values, such as increasing a resistor, or reducing a cap value, etc can change the sound of the whole amp. BUT adding a series contact (i.e a Relay in a channel switching amp) cannot have any significant effect on tone or feel, since a relay contact has almost negligable resistance (a few milli-ohms at most), and almost zero capacitance and inductance. If a channel switcher sounds different, it is because there are other design differences, not just because there is a "switch" in the circuit....

A JVM in Crunch Orange is almost identical to a 2203 (except for the small component value differences I have mentioned) whereas an amp like a DSL is a completely different circuit design.
 
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scozz

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I have a TSL and I found I only ever really used the crunch channel and thought "why do I need all this extra stuff?". I have never been happier since changing to single channel amps. My first was actually an orange tiny terror. It taught me to use the volume on the guitar for cleans. After that I built a Fly and AX84 High Octane and finally my Mojo 2204 clone. Was my main amp until I decided to downsize and started playing OR20's. Just picked up a JCA800 (2204 clone) and Im back in love with that sound. With the volume knob and pedals there isnt any tone Id want to have that I cant get out of this amp except a Fender or Roland JC type tone but I hardly ever play that clean. It has definitley made me a better player more worried about playing nuances than tweaking knobs.

I guess some people like chasing tone and enjoy the hunt for tone but Ive always just wanted good dirt and a reasonable clean so that I can focus on playing. OMG the rack gear days were horrible for me. Option overload lol.

Im sure there are plenty of people who can make use of the more complicated systems but its definitely helped me to simplify things.
This ^ is where I am the majority of the time.
 

Neptical

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I say, we can let Mesa Boogie keep the 8 channel, quad fx loop, dual reverb with pull knob for quadreverb, make your breakfast amps.

The reason I started with Marshall was just that - simplicity. The exact reason I think they are better than Boogies. Never overcomplicated. Don't get my wrong, I played Boogie Mark IIIs ( still have them ) and Rectifiers (a Single but now have a Dual Rectifier Rev G) for years - but once I had my first Marshall it was like hearing all the tones of the players I was looking for.
 

marshallmellowed

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I feel I’m not asking for much haha, but just take the 2203X, give it an extra preamp tube. Let me switch in a green/orange/red mode and the FX loop like the JVM, second master for leads, and I’d be good.
True, but with a little creativity, you can accomplish 99% of that with just an 800, a few pedals, and the guitar's volume control (at least I can).
 

V-man

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True, but with a little creativity, you can accomplish 99% of that with just an 800, a few pedals, and the guitar's volume control (at least I can).
With the exception of the 2203KK “Beast” boost/gate, I have never given a damn about the amp’s “on-board pedal circuits,” preferring my own choices, And would much rather forgo the expense and complexity of incorporating junk like that into the amp
 

EADGBE

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I'm real happy with my two TSL60s. The DSL50 I played sounded really good too. I use the lead channel 99% of the time.
 

Dogs of Doom

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I was just in my local music store and noticed a used JVM for sale, it was a 2007! Can’t believe it’s been that long with no change in the “flagship” Marshall.
I loved the features of that amp, but the compression, noise, etc.. was just too much.

Is it really that hard for them to develop a “Super 800” like they were once prototyping? Maybe three channels with clean/crunch/lead based on the 800 architecture with just an extra preamp tube for more gain in the lead channel?

Right now I use the SC20 Studio 800 with the Hot Mod (extra preamp tube) which is the perfect tone and gain for me but I do miss the switching features of the JVM to go from clean/rhythm/lead, switch in the effects loop etc..
are you referring to a specific amp? (Super 800)
 

scozz

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I say, we can let Mesa Boogie keep the 8 channel, quad fx loop, dual reverb with pull knob for quadreverb, make your breakfast amps.

The reason I started with Marshall was just that - simplicity. The exact reason I think they are better than Boogies. Never overcomplicated. Don't get my wrong, I played Boogie Mark IIIs ( still have them ) and Rectifiers (a Single but now have a Dual Rectifier Rev G) for years - but once I had my first Marshall it was like hearing all the tones of the players I was looking for.
Absolutely, I’m with you Neptical, the simpler the better for me. I cringe when I see a 6100, just too much going on, I see it as just more things to possibly break, lol.
 

scottster

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From what I remember, that pic was a super 800 prototype from a NAMM show 10 years ago or so, lot's of excitement but didn't get released.
 

Dogs of Doom

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ok, there was one that I saw, about 6 years ago. I no longer have a picture. I didn't take one, but Surf, over at the Roadhouse took a few & sent one to my phone...

It was pulled out, in secret, when this guy showed up.

PAUL2907 copy.jpg

he got to try it out, but, he wasn't talking. He had just scored the gig for Megadeth, not too long before this...

This was literally minutes after he gave it a whirl, inside the soundproof demo room...
 

nkay

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Yes that's the one I remembered and was thinking about when I posted this topic. Wonder why it never came to be.
I didn't think it would be that difficult. Maybe it was too close feature-wise to the eventual DSL updates made in Vietnam and they ended up dropping it?
 

stickyfinger

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I'm not going to get into a protracted discussion about this - but I am an electronics engineer, and I do know the 2203 and JVM circuits very well....I never said that the JVM Crunch Orange circuit and the 2203 circuit are identical but i did say that they are 95% the same, the main differences being a handful of component values...


A JVM in Crunch Orange is almost identical to a 2203 (except for the small component value differences I have mentioned) whereas an amp like a DSL is a completely different circuit design.
As someone who has modded the JVM 's circuit 100% to 2204 (treble peakers, negative feedback, cathode follower 100k, plate resistors ect.) It never quite got there. Amp didn't sag quite right and was always too bright and clean. While it was the best switching amp for those tones after those mods I decided playing my vintage amps sounded and responded better.
 

marshallmellowed

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As someone who has modded the JVM 's circuit 100% to 2204 (treble peakers, negative feedback, cathode follower 100k, plate resistors ect.) It never quite got there. Amp didn't sag quite right and was always too bright and clean. While it was the best switching amp for those tones after those mods I decided playing my vintage amps sounded and responded better.
Agree. Same here, and since I don't use tube amps when playing gigs, I did not need all the JVM modes, switching... These days, with tube amps, I like to just plug in and play, without being concerned about much else.
 
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Gutch220

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If they release some new flagship line, they would need to think about what it "in" right now. (what is needed). Do they want a really basic amp like a 2203, or something with a ton of knobs & features? Do people still desire 50/100 watt tube amps enough? How do they deal with connections to a computer, if at all? Marshall released those mini 20w amps based off of vintage amp models.
 

jimmyo

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So if I recall the all singing & dancing JVM and single channel Vintage Modern were released around the same time. The Vintage Modern was a real attempt at providing a hot rodded JTM45 style amp that could do both vintage and some 70s&80s hard rock and intended to be used as single channel and riding your volume knob keeping things simple. It just didn’t take off enough to stay on the market, whereas the JVM is still with us. I have both, along with a JCM800 and other amps, but for live use in my cover band I use the JVM. It’s the best way for me to get a wide variety of tones from the amp rather than pedals/modeling.

If I was doing an originals project or more focused genre of covers I’d love to use the single channel stuff, but the JVM is the best way for me to get solid tones for a wide variety of covers.

A Super 800 would be great, but it already exists. It’s called the Splawn Quickrod.
 

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