Will a “Super 800” ever come out?

nkay

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I was just in my local music store and noticed a used JVM for sale, it was a 2007! Can’t believe it’s been that long with no change in the “flagship” Marshall.
I loved the features of that amp, but the compression, noise, etc.. was just too much.

Is it really that hard for them to develop a “Super 800” like they were once prototyping? Maybe three channels with clean/crunch/lead based on the 800 architecture with just an extra preamp tube for more gain in the lead channel?

Right now I use the SC20 Studio 800 with the Hot Mod (extra preamp tube) which is the perfect tone and gain for me but I do miss the switching features of the JVM to go from clean/rhythm/lead, switch in the effects loop etc..
 

nkay

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What I mean is, can’t they use the JVM switching architecture (green/orange/red) mode with an 800 type circuit with just more gain on tap? So it sounds just like an 800 with green low gain mode for clean/breakup, normal orange mode for regular rhythm 800, and red mode for super 800. Maybe concentric knobs to deal with the shared eq like on an EVH.
 

PelliX

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What I mean is, can’t they use the JVM switching architecture (green/orange/red) mode with an 800 type circuit with just more gain on tap? So it sounds just like an 800 with green low gain mode for clean/breakup, normal orange mode for regular rhythm 800, and red mode for super 800. Maybe concentric knobs to deal with the shared eq like on an EVH.

Weeeeelll.... the TSL does sort of vaguely fit that request. Only a JCM800 sounds quite like a JCM800, though to my ears.
 

nkay

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TSL/DSL/6100/JVM don’t sound like the 800. I want the 800 with more gain available (not too much because of compression), and also the exact same JVM switching architecture.
 

PelliX

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Wouldn't a two channel JCM800 do it for you with an added boost for getting crunch out of the low input/clean channel?
 

marshallmellowed

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I was just in my local music store and noticed a used JVM for sale, it was a 2007! Can’t believe it’s been that long with no change in the “flagship” Marshall.
I loved the features of that amp, but the compression, noise, etc.. was just too much.

Is it really that hard for them to develop a “Super 800” like they were once prototyping? Maybe three channels with clean/crunch/lead based on the 800 architecture with just an extra preamp tube for more gain in the lead channel?

Right now I use the SC20 Studio 800 with the Hot Mod (extra preamp tube) which is the perfect tone and gain for me but I do miss the switching features of the JVM to go from clean/rhythm/lead, switch in the effects loop etc..
I get what you're saying, but any alterations to he 800 circuit (adding switching, new circuit board layout...) and it's no longer your basic 800. Theoretically, what you're saying should be doable, but it never seems to translate. These days, I like to keep it simple on the tube amp front, and use a modeler for maximum versatility.
 

dro

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I get it. I used a multi channel switching amp, for a long time. Made life easy on the road. One cable out to pedal, done.
Was tough to kick that habit. Once I started finding my way back to the analogue world. And heard the difference it makes on recordings.
I guess I became somewhat of a connoisseur (cork sniffer)
Today. Give me a single channel amp. with a nice pedalboard. I'm good to go.
 

spacerocker

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Is it really that hard for them to develop a “Super 800” like they were once prototyping? Maybe three channels with clean/crunch/lead based on the 800 architecture with just an extra preamp tube for more gain in the lead channel?

The JVM410 started out as a 2203, to which more (switchable) gain stages were added....

The JVM Crunch Orange channel is 95% the same circuit as a 2203 - just has more negative feedback in the power amp section, and a slightly darker voicing due to the tone stack values and omission of the 2203 "treble peaker" (basically a cap in parallel with a resistor)...

Hence a few simple mods can easily bring a JVM back into 2203 territory, and a simple mod to the OD channels also removes much of the compression.....
 

RCM 800

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I have a TSL and I found I only ever really used the crunch channel and thought "why do I need all this extra stuff?". I have never been happier since changing to single channel amps. My first was actually an orange tiny terror. It taught me to use the volume on the guitar for cleans. After that I built a Fly and AX84 High Octane and finally my Mojo 2204 clone. Was my main amp until I decided to downsize and started playing OR20's. Just picked up a JCA800 (2204 clone) and Im back in love with that sound. With the volume knob and pedals there isnt any tone Id want to have that I cant get out of this amp except a Fender or Roland JC type tone but I hardly ever play that clean. It has definitley made me a better player more worried about playing nuances than tweaking knobs.

I guess some people like chasing tone and enjoy the hunt for tone but Ive always just wanted good dirt and a reasonable clean so that I can focus on playing. OMG the rack gear days were horrible for me. Option overload lol.

Im sure there are plenty of people who can make use of the more complicated systems but its definitely helped me to simplify things.
 

V-man

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I am 100% behind a new take on a 2203 circuit, but ample experience has demonstrated that channel switching sucks.

Obviously, it is terrific in theory but to date, there has never been a channel switching amp (whose gree-orange setting “gets you into the ballpark”) that can exceed, much less meet the quality of the single channel amp.

The second issue (particularly true of Marshalls IME) is the more complex then circuit (channels, features, etc) the more disposable the amp - as in Waaaay too much $$$ to trace the issue on the tech‘s bench, potentially.

The MOST complex design level I feel comfortable is 2555-4100 (Jubilee-Dual Reverb), No fucking colors, no fucking tactile buttons, no more than 2 fucking channels.

In this case, the ”clean” channel would function as the Lo Sensitivity jack. The main channel (straight Hi Sensitivity jack 800) would have on-board Boost function like the 2203KK (the gate was phenomenal too but again, ZERO Fucking tactile buttons). If it does not disrupt the circuit too much, maybe a “slope” knob like the JCM 800 bass models had to allow you to sweep through mid freqs for classic/modern metal (and manually rolling back slope knob is like the 900 MkIII knob to remove the diode out of the circuit).

One Footswitch: Lo (channel), Hi (channel) Boost (maybe gate). Done.
 
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marshallmellowed

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The JVM410 started out as a 2203, to which more (switchable) gain stages were added....

The JVM Crunch Orange channel is 95% the same circuit as a 2203 - just has more negative feedback in the power amp section, and a slightly darker voicing due to the tone stack values and omission of the 2203 "treble peaker" (basically a cap in parallel with a resistor)...

Hence a few simple mods can easily bring a JVM back into 2203 territory, and a simple mod to the OD channels also removes much of the compression.....
No offense, but I think he's referring to an amp that you don't have take apart and start modding, which is the case with the JVM. Even after all the modding I did to my 410H, it never sounded as good as my 2203x. Your experience has been different, obviously, and all subjective, of course. No debating on that.
 

Kinkless Tetrode

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Just adding the Hotmod to the 2203 circuit should be quite feasable. That is if you just have it where you can dial in the amp in one mode or the other. That's essentially what the Vintage Modern was except it was voiced like a JTM instead of an 800 and it had post PI master instead of a pre PI master. It's when you want to make it switchable on the fly and with green, orange, and red modes that it gets complicated.

You will need extra gain and volume controls to balance it out. Really, having an extra assignable master is a good idea too. And you may want the clean and the dirty to have their own EQ controls. You can see where this is going.

A better idea might be a Jubilee type circuit but with the 2203 preamp voicing and tone stack. Is that a MkIII?
 

paul-e-mann

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What I mean is, can’t they use the JVM switching architecture (green/orange/red) mode with an 800 type circuit with just more gain on tap? So it sounds just like an 800 with green low gain mode for clean/breakup, normal orange mode for regular rhythm 800, and red mode for super 800. Maybe concentric knobs to deal with the shared eq like on an EVH.
Or why they havent used the YJM power scaling on other amps? :shrug:
 

spacerocker

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I am 100% behind a new take on a 2203 circuit, but ample experience has demonstrated that channel switching sucks.

Obviously, it is terrific in theory but to date, there has never been a channel switching amp (whose gree-orange setting “gets you into the ballpark”) that can exceed, much less meet the quality of the single channel amp.

There is nothing about channel switching that inherently alters tone in any way. The problem that you are experiencing is that most channel switching amps are designed to do other things, not just emulate one amp. As I said, the JVM410 in Crunch orange has about 95% in common wth the 2203 circuit - but it's the 5% that prevents it from sounding exactly the same!

A channel switching amp could be made to be exactly the same as a 2203 (in it's rhythm channel mode) - which was kind of what the OP was wishing for, and indeed a JVM can be modded to be exacly the same as a 2203 in this respect - but currently no such amp is available off the shelf....but if itt were, the addition of relays would not prevent it from duplicating the 800 tone.....



No offense, but I think he's referring to an amp that you don't have take apart and start modding, which is the case with the JVM. Even after all the modding I did to my 410H, it never sounded as good as my 2203x. Your experience has been different, obviously, and all subjective, of course. No debating on that.


Yes - I get that. No offence taken, and I often wished Marshall had made such an amp (an I still wonder why they didn't). And I agree it shouldn't be necessary to mod an amp to get to where you want, but sometimes it's the only way....My JVM is modded to be close to a 2203/800, and for me, it sounds better. I did once mod it to be exactly the same, but decided that I preferred the slight increase in gain available in crunch red, so I kept that JVM feature intact.
 

V-man

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There is nothing about channel switching that inherently alters tone in any way. The problem that you are experiencing is that most channel switching amps are designed to do other things, not just emulate one amp. As I said, the JVM410 in Crunch orange has about 95% in common wth the 2203 circuit - but it's the 5% that prevents it from sounding exactly the same!

A channel switching amp could be made to be exactly the same as a 2203 (in it's rhythm channel mode) - which was kind of what the OP was wishing for, and indeed a JVM can be modded to be exacly the same as a 2203 in this respect - but currently no such amp is available off the shelf....but if itt were, the addition of relays would not prevent it from duplicating the 800 tone.....

I am am not sophisticated in the theory or practice of electrical engineering (and I could be wrong), but I am not buying this. Transformers and other components supplying power and interacting with components “X“ does not strike me as = to those same core components interacting with components “2-3X”. I believe that to make that work you need more robust or differently valued components to bring the same result in line, which add their idiosyncracies.

Case in point, neither the 2203X nor the Studio Classic is a JMP/JCM 800 2203/4 and unlike the 95% JVM similarity, these guys might come in at 97-98%. The DNA difference between a human and a chimp is 1.5%. Obviously not a directly-comparable analogy, but Marshall has been advertising “modern” circuits to have a JCM 800 (-style) channel since at least 2003 with the MF350… maybe as far back as the DSL/TSL era and has not succeeded until the Studio Series (with its own attendant mismatched idiosyncrasies). If they could have done a 100% dead-nuts 2203 channel, it would have been done on the JVM 15 years ago. Close ain’t special… it’s been around since the 90s with MkIII/DSL amps.
 

nkay

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I feel I’m not asking for much haha, but just take the 2203X, give it an extra preamp tube. Let me switch in a green/orange/red mode and the FX loop like the JVM, second master for leads, and I’d be good.
 

Leonard Neemoil

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I feel I’m not asking for much haha, but just take the 2203X, give it an extra preamp tube. Let me switch in a green/orange/red mode and the FX loop like the JVM, second master for leads, and I’d be good.

I'll second that!
 

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