they say this debunks the AZ studio moon landing...

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Dogs of Doom

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NASA Releases Stunning 4K Video of Apollo 13 Views of the Moon, Ending All Conspiracy Theories​




:shrug:
 

Vinsanitizer

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I never believed it was a conspiracy. If nothing else, Russia would have exposed us.
But Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster? Yeah, conspiracies theories; real monster movie stuff - as is 99.999% of UFO "evidence", of which I consider the likes of Bob Lazar a bunch of story tellers.
 
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Matthews Guitars

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The Russians never doubted that we landed on the moon. They were investing billions in trying to do it first so they knew it was possible. And nobody would have loved to reveal the American moon landing hoax more than the Russians, and nobody was in a better position to identify any such fraud, if there had been any. Not even Russian spies in our space program came up with any evidence of fraud.

You'd have to be pretty dense to still believe it was a hoax, all things considered.

One problem with some people is that they disbelieve in things that they simply can't comprehend on a personal level. "I don't understand how to do that, so it must be fake."
 

Derek S

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Even as an easily influenced child at that time I never understood the conspiracy believing theories/folks and always had a private little chuckle at their expense lol (edit: and that's saying something because my own grandmother was a doubter).

Now bigfoot...that was not debatable for me, I mean the 6 million dollar man actually fought one...on camera even.
 
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PelliX

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Yeah, fair points, but did the US or the rest of the world "blast" Russia when it was revealed that Laika (the dog) actually died a horrible death instead of returning safely to earth? We know that plenty of the footage of Yuri Gagarin in and around the rockets was staged 'photo shoot' stuff. That's not to say he never went up, it's just saying that some of that was more 'PR' than documenting actual history. I'm pretty sure NASA did some of that to a given degree as well, and that's only logical when you're in a 'space race' and trying not to lose face, right.

The footage that NASA now released doesn't really "conclusively" prove that Neil and co were there - so there's room for debate for those who so wish. I mean, just as a devil's advocate argument; anyone could have been in a suit with a badge saying N. Armstrong, right? There will always be room for doubt for those who seek it.
 

ricksdisconnected

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that movie doesnt prove shit. hell they could have done that with the Hubble.
i too am curious why we havent been back? one of the greatest accomplishments of mankind
and we havent been back? (or have we) yet a killer night with a hot girl we are trying to dive back in
within days? are you shitting me right now?
 

PelliX

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that movie doesnt prove shit. hell they could have done that with the Hubble.
i too am curious why we havent been back? one of the greatest accomplishments of mankind
and we havent been back? (or have we) yet a killer night with a hot girl we are trying to dive back in
within days? are you shitting me right now?

Well, the Chinese are working on it, FWIW. But what is there to gain from going there? Colonizing the moon is impractical. Little economic interest. The key thing would be strategic military positioning, which would also be a massive threat to the world (shooting off satellites, etc). That's exactly what the Chinese are intending on doing under the guise of "clearing space debris".

EDIT: This reads a bit 'anti-China', that was not my intention. I think all the dogs in this fight are in it to win, right now, China is in the lead.
 
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Matthews Guitars

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No, the Hubble space telescope could not have made that video. Not even close. It's NOT a video camera! And its field of view is so narrow, that to make a single image of the entire moon it would take 1300 individual photos that would be put together in a mosaic.

That'd be for ONE FRAME.

The Apollo landing sites can be SEEN from the Hubble, and HAVE been photographed. You can find them if you want.

So now you're contesting photographs made by the very Hubble you think could have made that video? :hmm:

Know when to give up, Don. You'll never beat the windmill.

I'm sure this government has engaged in SOME disinformation campaigns, but given the incredible cost and scope of the moon landings and Apollo program, there's literally no way that a program that big that involved so many people and generated so many real technological advances for us could possibly be faked.

If you'd deny the moon landings, to me you're in the same category of people who deny the Holocaust: Not worth my effort.
 

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Theres a difference between denial and questioning the narrative, Kinda like when people are called “smart shoppers” when researching buying a car and a house, yet when researching an experimental covid vax everyone is now a conspiracy theorist.
Im old enough to know that the tougher the flak the closer you are to the target. 😜
Ridicule is an Alinsky tactic designed to move the needle from open dialogue to closing the topic.
No one is denying the Holocaust ,( BTW, I met a holocaust survivor years ago with the Nazi number tattoo on his arm) and the inference is kinda like an ultimatum to stop the discussion, as a childlike tantrum. why russia and china has not been to the moon is something thatbegs to be answered. Seems you have no idea why and thats entirely ok.
 
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Crikey

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Yeah, fair points, but did the US or the rest of the world "blast" Russia when it was revealed that Laika (the dog) actually died a horrible death instead of returning safely to earth? We know that plenty of the footage of Yuri Gagarin in and around the rockets was staged 'photo shoot' stuff. That's not to say he never went up, it's just saying that some of that was more 'PR' than documenting actual history. I'm pretty sure NASA did some of that to a given degree as well, and that's only logical when you're in a 'space race' and trying not to lose face, right.

The footage that NASA now released doesn't really "conclusively" prove that Neil and co were there - so there's room for debate for those who so wish. I mean, just as a devil's advocate argument; anyone could have been in a suit with a badge saying N. Armstrong, right? There will always be room for doubt for those who seek it.
Note that regardless of political rhetoric that US and Russia still share a space station…..
some things transcend nation state thinking
 

PelliX

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Well, whether it's the holocaust, bigfoot or the 'flat earth', aliens, etc - one can apply the scientific method. There are things we can prove and things we cannot or have not yet prove(n).

Proven:
* The moon (and the earth, for that matter) is a sphere
* Man has sent equipment to the moon and orbiting it
* The 2nd world war took place

Unproven (however likely or unlikely):
* Neil was one of the guys up there (just to elaborate on that earlier example)
* The shielding of the craft was sufficient to protect humans from the van Allen radiation belt (see above)
* Bigfoot exists somewhere and he's in touch with aliens from [insert favorite galaxy]

That doesn't mean that the unproven is true or false, it's merely a theory. A hypothesis has no basis in fact. A theory is supported by evidence but unproven. One could even go as far as to say that the existence of bigfoot is a theory as there are photos, stories, etc backing the notion up.

I'm sure this government has engaged in SOME disinformation campaigns, but given the incredible cost and scope of the moon landings and Apollo program, there's literally no way that a program that big [...] could possibly be faked.

Well, putting Laika in orbit cost a far penny (or should I say Rouble). Most recent wars have been at best based in part on falsehoods. The official narrative often differs so much from the truth that it's hardly recognizable. I believe it was Goebels (a highly intelligent albeit evil man) who said something like "the greater the lie, the easier it becomes to believe". I concur entirely that it would have been one hell of a feat to fake that.

I always try to view a subject from another man's angle. An oversimplified example; if you heard that Russia was telling an absolute pack of lies to its citizens via state run media about the war in Ukraine (or any other subject, really) - would you dismiss the notion? Most people in the 'western world' would not. Doesn't that make it at least plausible to entertain the idea that the 'western media' (let's just take the US for example's sake) might do the same about the Vietnam war, or Iraq? I reckon that any government will tend to lean towards narratives that favor themselves where it's of benefit to them. That's human nature.

Needless to say, proving things is extremely hard scientifically. Disproving notions is often easier. For example; prove the existence of gravity. You drop a rock. It falls. Good, but now a double blind test. Same result, rocks seem to fall, attracted by gravity. Do it a thousand times, you get the same result every time. That doesn't mean that number 1001 will not disprove the notion - but you have 'reasonable assurance' of the fact to continue extrapolating on it.

TL;DR: We (humans) tend to operate on the notion of 'reasonable doubt', in fact - that's a legal definition. Reasonable doubt is not proof.
 

Matthews Guitars

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It is a principle of the scientific method that a theory can never be proven, only disproven. But if the theory is truly the right one, it can never be disproven. It only takes that one special case to disprove a theory, that disproves the theory.

So far, gravity has not been disproven. Nor has the existence of electromagnetic energy. Just to give two easy examples.

Why have Russia and China not put men on the moon? How do you or I KNOW they haven't? In later years, even right now?

The race to the moon between the US and the Soviet Union was as much a show of power on the world stage as it was a feat of technology. Once the USSR lost the race, why continue? Who respects your second place trophy when you spent billions to win it?

There's nothing magical about getting to the moon. You can SEE it from here. Orbital mechanics are well understood. The energy equations that must be solved to make a vehicle that has the fuel and range to make the trip are fairly simple math that any good junior high school math student can solve. Once we had the engines that were efficient enough and powerful enough and reliable enough for the journey, of course we'd make that journey. But it was horrendously expensive and while today, spaceflight IS getting cheaper, it's still no bargain but it has reached the point where it can be profitable and that is really the turning point for the whole space program.

There's no aspect of the moon missions that is beyond understanding. Of course we actually ran those missions.
 

Crikey

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Well, whether it's the holocaust, bigfoot or the 'flat earth', aliens, etc - one can apply the scientific method. There are things we can prove and things we cannot or have not yet prove(n).

Proven:
* The moon (and the earth, for that matter) is a sphere
* Man has sent equipment to the moon and orbiting it
* The 2nd world war took place

Unproven (however likely or unlikely):
* Neil was one of the guys up there (just to elaborate on that earlier example)
* The shielding of the craft was sufficient to protect humans from the van Allen radiation belt (see above)
* Bigfoot exists somewhere and he's in touch with aliens from [insert favorite galaxy]

That doesn't mean that the unproven is true or false, it's merely a theory. A hypothesis has no basis in fact. A theory is supported by evidence but unproven. One could even go as far as to say that the existence of bigfoot is a theory as there are photos, stories, etc backing the notion up.



Well, putting Laika in orbit cost a far penny (or should I say Rouble). Most recent wars have been at best based in part on falsehoods. The official narrative often differs so much from the truth that it's hardly recognizable. I believe it was Goebels (a highly intelligent albeit evil man) who said something like "the greater the lie, the easier it becomes to believe". I concur entirely that it would have been one hell of a feat to fake that.

I always try to view a subject from another man's angle. An oversimplified example; if you heard that Russia was telling an absolute pack of lies to its citizens via state run media about the war in Ukraine (or any other subject, really) - would you dismiss the notion? Most people in the 'western world' would not. Doesn't that make it at least plausible to entertain the idea that the 'western media' (let's just take the US for example's sake) might do the same about the Vietnam war, or Iraq? I reckon that any government will tend to lean towards narratives that favor themselves where it's of benefit to them. That's human nature.

Needless to say, proving things is extremely hard scientifically. Disproving notions is often easier. For example; prove the existence of gravity. You drop a rock. It falls. Good, but now a double blind test. Same result, rocks seem to fall, attracted by gravity. Do it a thousand times, you get the same result every time. That doesn't mean that number 1001 will not disprove the notion - but you have 'reasonable assurance' of the fact to continue extrapolating on it.

TL;DR: We (humans) tend to operate on the notion of 'reasonable doubt', in fact - that's a legal definition. Reasonable doubt is not proof.
great points to which I would add, when has the govt ever worried about wasting money to show results and show the public they are good stewards with the public trust? its not a distrust of. "govt", its an awareness of corrupted people within govt.
 

Crikey

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It is a principle of the scientific method that a theory can never be proven, only disproven. But if the theory is truly the right one, it can never be disproven. It only takes that one special case to disprove a theory, that disproves the theory.

So far, gravity has not been disproven. Nor has the existence of electromagnetic energy. Just to give two easy examples.

Why have Russia and China not put men on the moon? How do you or I KNOW they haven't? In later years, even right now?

The race to the moon between the US and the Soviet Union was as much a show of power on the world stage as it was a feat of technology. Once the USSR lost the race, why continue? Who respects your second place trophy when you spent billions to win it?

There's nothing magical about getting to the moon. You can SEE it from here. Orbital mechanics are well understood. The energy equations that must be solved to make a vehicle that has the fuel and range to make the trip are fairly simple math that any good junior high school math student can solve. Once we had the engines that were efficient enough and powerful enough and reliable enough for the journey, of course we'd make that journey. But it was horrendously expensive and while today, spaceflight IS getting cheaper, it's still no bargain but it has reached the point where it can be profitable and that is really the turning point for the whole space program.

There's no aspect of the moon missions that is beyond understanding. Of course we actually ran those missions.
when the moon landing was made into the huge accomplishment , to not return immediately thereafter, nor too this day, was a significant blunder.
China and Russia would be relentless in stating, that they too had a lunar landing. Its of strategic importance to show your population that their nation state, has accomplished a moon landing.
"There's nothing magical about getting to the moon" well,,.the Van Allen belt is a topic you seem to deliberately ignore on the difficulty of navigating and surviving having to go through it twice.
On the Hubble, its kinda hard to understand how it can transmit 4k video while here on earth and just a few miles from mega city centers we cant load YouTube videos longer than 2 minutes without latency issues, or during thunderstorms we still have sat tv but our sat internet can't work..

I'm sure this government has engaged in SOME disinformation campaigns, but given the incredible cost and scope of the moon landings and Apollo program, there's literally no way that a program that big that involved so many people and generated so many real technological advances for us could possibly be faked.
some ? how about numerous disinformation campaigns...
when does the govt worry about showing itself a good steward of the Public's money? there is a small country that was given $80 billion in mil hardware.....worried about the cost? hardly.

seeing the moon is not the same as landing on it. until we return and you can support this claim with irrefutable proof , then it's not absolute. I want to see more indisputable evidence that we did in fact land on it.

same with Kennedy, I don't believe Oswald was the "lone" gunman. ima bit of a researcher and having visited the site, its not plausible that Oswald could fire that weapon at that extreme angle and not have hit the driver. there is a building farther down from the depository that abuts into the road a bit, that was one location and the grassy knoll the other.

creating confusion and controversy is a often used tactic. tell the truth then include a bunch of wild ass things and it kills the truth, or so they hope.
 

Dogs of Doom

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Doesn't China have a bot/rover running around on the moon right now?
do the Chinese have an astronaut program? Have they been to the moon? Have the Russians been there? or any other country?

I think, for the fact that we can hardly successfully land a man on the ISS, makes the moon landing that much more suspect to "conspiracy theories"...

Russia stated that they are leaving the ISS program, due to international conflict.

note to everyone: tread lightly on the political aspects of these things. We don't want this to go that way (the way of the dodo). To legitimately use examples, in relation to conspiracy can go either way.
 
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