The slap in the face for marshall : HDRX 20

[pat_rocks]

I don't want to sound or look like a jerk. I like marshall amplification but seing what is hapenning is kinda sad.

You have a Guy named Jimmy Hendrix which was like one of the best ambassadors for Marshall. But Marshall didn't have the idea to make signature marshalls of the big names or the recent years they focused on slash mainly for whatever reason (i must agree that clearly he was one of the most popular players among guitarists). Perhaps that legends are asking too much for it but i mean it might be worth it...

Most of the great guitarists marshall were hot rodded and had some few mods which made them sound a little bit different.

One great idea was to take the big names make signature amps by reverse engeneering those and miniaturise them.

You have a Guy named Paul Reed Smith which understands what the market is looking for : Cheap with quality, small size and with volume bedrooms. but he went further the guy went to the museum with his techs they took pictures and measurments and they reverse engeneered the real damn thing. He went see the hendrix owner rights and bingo they accepted.

Next Step : they went to a uk artisan and asked them to copy cat the transformers and to miniaturise them to help reproduce the sound of them.

The Guy decided to miniaturise the thing (we know many people live in small spaces), he added a good master volume for bedroom volumes. Eric Johnson bought the amp and he said usually he asks for master volumes to be removed because he doesn't like them but he said that's the first time a master volume doesn't suck and he likes it...

Now marshall sells the sc20 and the sv20 for 1k5 in the us and around 7-800$ in europe. Many parts are made in asia and the guts...

I don't want to be mean but the guys which designed the layout just wasted aluminum for the chassis it is way too big and never needed to be this big and there is plenty of room which could have been saved. and the cabinet is way too big for what it is :




Now lets take a look at the guts of the HDRX 20 :



Now just let's take a look at the differences inside. First of all the pcb looks way better quality. Then look at the capacitors. Even if those yellow capacitors are made in asia capacitors those are audio grade capacitors and are not like the square block caps which marshall uses. The quality of the components is way higher. Moreover the layout for this thing is amazing compared to the marshall.

If we would compare the transformers then it would be rough for marshall...

how can marshal justify making us pay almost the same price or more in the us than a 800$ amp with better quality components and transformers made by a small manufacturer in the uk ?

I gotta say it clearly PRS is milking marshall legacy because Marshall doesn't know how to do it or even care about it :

- stop with the pcb shitty components and look at prs or at friedman amplification or even soldano as an example. Use real polyester dielectric axial caps.

Many young audio engeneers believe caps don't have tonal properties and that values only count which is completely false. Here is one evident "proof" about it the same amp the same cap values but different compositions :



- Add a master volume that works and doesn't suck the amp tone. Ken fisher and josé arredondo had nice designs.

- Reduce the size of your amps, make efficient layouts, reduce the cab size use real potentiometers. what's the point of having a cab 1/3 bigger than the metallic chassis ?

- Milk your ambassadors and make signature amps. Reverse engeneer them even the mods which were added to them.

- Reproduce/reverse engeneer transformers or even miniaturize them.

- Stop only caring for savings and give us some quality : Prs did it why couldn't you ?

Many say the demos weren't this impressive but it tell you that for a jtm45 the thing sounds quite impressive. I regret having bought my sv20h just two weeks before the hdrx 20 release.

stop the greed go pay a visit to Jimmy page, Angus young, Ask for gibbons marshall to his familly, Go knock at the door of the 5150 studios and look for wolfgang, Go see steve vai and ask him for his josé marshall... I mean there are so many possibilities yeah those guys might be greedy too but you still can negotiate with them...

many legendary guitarists still own many of their studio recording amps just go look for those !

I'm sure they will be more than happy to help you if there are enough arguments.

those kind of amps could become a goldmine if you would do things properly.

 

[marshallmellowed]

I don't want to sound or look like a jerk. I like marshall amplification but seing what is hapenning is kinda sad.

You have a Guy named Jimmy Hendrix which was like one of the best ambassadors for Marshall. But Marshall didn't have the idea to make signature marshalls of the big names.

Most of the great guitarists marshall were hot rodded and had some few mods which made them sound a little bit different.

One great idea was to take the big names make signature amps by reverse engeneering those and miniaturise them.

You have a Guy named Paul Reed Smith which understands what the market is looking for : Cheap with quality, small size and with volume bedrooms. but he went further the guy went to the museum with his techs they took pictures and measurments and they reverse engeneered the real damn thing. He went see the hendrix owner rights and bingo they accepted.

Next Step : they went to a uk artisan and asked them to copy cat the transformers and to miniaturise them to hepl reproduce the sound of them.

The Guy decided to miniaturise the thing (we know many people have not many room nowadays), he added a good master volume. Eric Johnson bought the amp and he said usually he asks for master volumes to be removed because he doesn't like them but he said that's the first time a master volume doesn't suck and he likes it...

Now marshal sells the sc20 and the sv20 for 1k5 in the us and around 7-800$ in europe. Many parts are made in asia and the guts...

I don't want to be mean but the guys which designed the layout just wasted aluminum for the chassis it is way too big and never needed to be this big and there is plenty of room which could have been saved. and the cabinet is way too big for what it is :

View attachment 121089


Now lets take a look at the guts of the HDRX 20 :

View attachment 121092

Now just let's take a look at the differences inside. First of all the pcb looks way better quality. Then look at the capacitors. Even if those yellow capacitors are made in asia capacitors those are audio grade capacitors and are not like the square block caps which marshall uses. The quality of the components is way higher. Moreover the layout for this thing is amazing compared to the marshal.

If we would compare the transformers then it would just be a knock out for marshall...

how can marshal justify making us pay almost the same price or more in the us than a 800$ amp with better quality components and transformers made by a small manufacturer in the uk ?

I gotta say it clearly PRS is milking marshall legacy because Marshall doesn't know how to do it or even care about it :

- stop with the pcb shitty components and look at prs or at friedman amplification or even soldano as an example. Use real polyester dielectric axial caps.

Many young audio engeneers believe caps don't have tonal properties and that values only count which is completely false. Here is one evident proof about it the same amp the same cap values but different compositions :



- Add a master volume that works and doesn't suck the amp tone. Ken fisher and josé arredondo had nice designs.

- Reduce the size of your amps, make efficient layouts, reduce the cab size use real potentiometers. what's the point of having a cab 1/3 bigger than the metallic chassis ?

- Milk your ambassadors and make signature amps. Reverse engeneer them even the mods which were added to them.

- Reproduce transformers and miniaturize them.

- Stop only caring for savings and give us some quality : Prs did it why couldn't you ?

Many say the demos weren't this impressive but it tell you that for a jtm45 the thing sounds quite impressive. I regret having bought my sv20h just two weeks before the hdrx 20 release.

stop the greed go pay a visit to Jimmy page, Angus young, Ask for gibbons marshall to his familly, Go knock at the door of the 5150 studios and look for wolfie, Go see steve vai and ask him for his josé marshall... I mean there are so many possibilities yeah those guys might be greedy too but you still can negotiate with them...

I'm sure they will be more than happy to help you if there are enough arguments.

Unless he measured each cap with an accurate capacitance meter, the results of his test are inconclusive. Due to tolerances, the values will vary, plus or minus the marked value. Multiply those tolerance variances by several caps in a circuit, and the tone variance could be quite significant. This is why, even when using the same brand of components, no 2 amps ever sound exactly the same.

 

[marshallmellowed]

I don't want to sound or look like a jerk. I like marshall amplification but seing what is hapenning is kinda sad.

You have a Guy named Jimmy Hendrix which was like one of the best ambassadors for Marshall. But Marshall didn't have the idea to make signature marshalls of the big names.

Most of the great guitarists marshall were hot rodded and had some few mods which made them sound a little bit different.

One great idea was to take the big names make signature amps by reverse engeneering those and miniaturise them.

You have a Guy named Paul Reed Smith which understands what the market is looking for : Cheap with quality, small size and with volume bedrooms. but he went further the guy went to the museum with his techs they took pictures and measurments and they reverse engeneered the real damn thing. He went see the hendrix owner rights and bingo they accepted.

Next Step : they went to a uk artisan and asked them to copy cat the transformers and to miniaturise them to hepl reproduce the sound of them.

The Guy decided to miniaturise the thing (we know many people have not many room nowadays), he added a good master volume. Eric Johnson bought the amp and he said usually he asks for master volumes to be removed because he doesn't like them but he said that's the first time a master volume doesn't suck and he likes it...

Now marshal sells the sc20 and the sv20 for 1k5 in the us and around 7-800$ in europe. Many parts are made in asia and the guts...

I don't want to be mean but the guys which designed the layout just wasted aluminum for the chassis it is way too big and never needed to be this big and there is plenty of room which could have been saved. and the cabinet is way too big for what it is :

View attachment 121089


Now lets take a look at the guts of the HDRX 20 :

View attachment 121092

Now just let's take a look at the differences inside. First of all the pcb looks way better quality. Then look at the capacitors. Even if those yellow capacitors are made in asia capacitors those are audio grade capacitors and are not like the square block caps which marshall uses. The quality of the components is way higher. Moreover the layout for this thing is amazing compared to the marshal.

If we would compare the transformers then it would just be a knock out for marshall...

how can marshal justify making us pay almost the same price or more in the us than a 800$ amp with better quality components and transformers made by a small manufacturer in the uk ?

I gotta say it clearly PRS is milking marshall legacy because Marshall doesn't know how to do it or even care about it :

- stop with the pcb shitty components and look at prs or at friedman amplification or even soldano as an example. Use real polyester dielectric axial caps.

Many young audio engeneers believe caps don't have tonal properties and that values only count which is completely false. Here is one evident proof about it the same amp the same cap values but different compositions :



- Add a master volume that works and doesn't suck the amp tone. Ken fisher and josé arredondo had nice designs.

- Reduce the size of your amps, make efficient layouts, reduce the cab size use real potentiometers. what's the point of having a cab 1/3 bigger than the metallic chassis ?

- Milk your ambassadors and make signature amps. Reverse engeneer them even the mods which were added to them.

- Reproduce transformers and miniaturize them.

- Stop only caring for savings and give us some quality : Prs did it why couldn't you ?

Many say the demos weren't this impressive but it tell you that for a jtm45 the thing sounds quite impressive. I regret having bought my sv20h just two weeks before the hdrx 20 release.

stop the greed go pay a visit to Jimmy page, Angus young, Ask for gibbons marshall to his familly, Go knock at the door of the 5150 studios and look for wolfie, Go see steve vai and ask him for his josé marshall... I mean there are so many possibilities yeah those guys might be greedy too but you still can negotiate with them...

I'm sure they will be more than happy to help you if there are enough arguments.

Seems like a decent little amp, but I don't care for it's appearance. Too much black, and looks like the rear panel is on the front (IMO).

 

[Matthews Guitars]

The power supply reservoir capacitors that PRS used should not be PC board mounted and the adhesive used to help retain them on the board may or may not become electrically conductive after years of usage. While the build quality is nice, that is one of two design choices I don't support and the other is PC board mounted preamp tube sockets.

 

[Dr.Twang!]

Didn’t Doug Sewell design and build those amps originally before selling the company to PRS?

 

[crossroadsnyc]

I don't want to sound or look like a jerk. I like marshall amplification but seing what is hapenning is kinda sad.

You have a Guy named Jimmy Hendrix which was like one of the best ambassadors for Marshall. But Marshall didn't have the idea to make signature marshalls of the big names or the recent years they focused on slash mainly for whatever reason (i must agree that clearly he was one of the most popular players among guitarists). Perhaps that legends are asking too much for it but i mean it might be worth it...

Marshall did make that amp, and it was called the Super 100JH.

As for this PRS amp, the clips I've heard sounded mediocre at best, and the reviews I've seen are very disappointing ... though, it's most certainly more attainable, and at a fraction of the cost.

 

[tallcoolone]

Well, Marshall everything is overpriced right now--a 1960 cab is close to $2k!!!

I'm with @crossroadsnyc --every clip I've heard is lacking top end cut. I hate to critique an amp I've never spent time with so I won't but it would be nice to hear some demos showing some KERRANG. Esp since nowadays it's so hard to find and try gear in person.

 

[Jethro Rocker]

And yet, the Studio Series has been a super seller for Marshall. People asked for them for years, Marshall came across.
What magical fairy dust is in the caps doesn't matter to the sound of them. Many players don't care about signature amps, just want something that sounds Marshall. The size and weight is fine.

 

[EJstrat&JVM]

I don't want to sound or look like a jerk. I like marshall amplification but seing what is hapenning is kinda sad.

You have a Guy named Jimmy Hendrix which was like one of the best ambassadors for Marshall. But Marshall didn't have the idea to make signature marshalls of the big names or the recent years they focused on slash mainly for whatever reason (i must agree that clearly he was one of the most popular players among guitarists). Perhaps that legends are asking too much for it but i mean it might be worth it...

Most of the great guitarists marshall were hot rodded and had some few mods which made them sound a little bit different.

One great idea was to take the big names make signature amps by reverse engeneering those and miniaturise them.

You have a Guy named Paul Reed Smith which understands what the market is looking for : Cheap with quality, small size and with volume bedrooms. but he went further the guy went to the museum with his techs they took pictures and measurments and they reverse engeneered the real damn thing. He went see the hendrix owner rights and bingo they accepted.

Next Step : they went to a uk artisan and asked them to copy cat the transformers and to miniaturise them to help reproduce the sound of them.

The Guy decided to miniaturise the thing (we know many people live in small spaces), he added a good master volume for bedroom volumes. Eric Johnson bought the amp and he said usually he asks for master volumes to be removed because he doesn't like them but he said that's the first time a master volume doesn't suck and he likes it...

Now marshall sells the sc20 and the sv20 for 1k5 in the us and around 7-800$ in europe. Many parts are made in asia and the guts...

I don't want to be mean but the guys which designed the layout just wasted aluminum for the chassis it is way too big and never needed to be this big and there is plenty of room which could have been saved. and the cabinet is way too big for what it is :

View attachment 121089


Now lets take a look at the guts of the HDRX 20 :

View attachment 121092

Now just let's take a look at the differences inside. First of all the pcb looks way better quality. Then look at the capacitors. Even if those yellow capacitors are made in asia capacitors those are audio grade capacitors and are not like the square block caps which marshall uses. The quality of the components is way higher. Moreover the layout for this thing is amazing compared to the marshall.

If we would compare the transformers then it would be rough for marshall...

how can marshal justify making us pay almost the same price or more in the us than a 800$ amp with better quality components and transformers made by a small manufacturer in the uk ?

I gotta say it clearly PRS is milking marshall legacy because Marshall doesn't know how to do it or even care about it :

- stop with the pcb shitty components and look at prs or at friedman amplification or even soldano as an example. Use real polyester dielectric axial caps.

Many young audio engeneers believe caps don't have tonal properties and that values only count which is completely false. Here is one evident "proof" about it the same amp the same cap values but different compositions :



- Add a master volume that works and doesn't suck the amp tone. Ken fisher and josé arredondo had nice designs.

- Reduce the size of your amps, make efficient layouts, reduce the cab size use real potentiometers. what's the point of having a cab 1/3 bigger than the metallic chassis ?

- Milk your ambassadors and make signature amps. Reverse engeneer them even the mods which were added to them.

- Reproduce/reverse engeneer transformers or even miniaturize them.

- Stop only caring for savings and give us some quality : Prs did it why couldn't you ?

Many say the demos weren't this impressive but it tell you that for a jtm45 the thing sounds quite impressive. I regret having bought my sv20h just two weeks before the hdrx 20 release.

stop the greed go pay a visit to Jimmy page, Angus young, Ask for gibbons marshall to his familly, Go knock at the door of the 5150 studios and look for wolfgang, Go see steve vai and ask him for his josé marshall... I mean there are so many possibilities yeah those guys might be greedy too but you still can negotiate with them...

many legendary guitarists still own many of their studio recording amps just go look for those !

I'm sure they will be more than happy to help you if there are enough arguments.

those kind of amps could become a goldmine if you would do things properly.

You didn't sound like a jerk. We all love Marshall, but I agree with everything you said. They are too slow to understand what people want. On the other hand Ceriatone and Friedman are two good examples, they deliver something new and amazing and they improve every time, raising the bar. Marshall are overpriced, they stopped making a great amp, the Vintage Modern, they are not making a 20w version of the AFD100. And they cut the corners on components quality. I agree that even the caps change the sound. And obviously not all tubes sound the same, some of them sound identical but some brands sound quite different, that's why some comparison clips sound the same and some sound different.

 

[Leonard Neemoil]

Calling @Maggot Brain

 

[DragonCrestPC]

This is why the newest marshall i own is 1989 ( my japanese jubilee ) Marshall doesn't give a hoot anymore and it shows, i love marshall amps to death too ( by far my favorite amp ). That's just my opinion though.

 

[Moony]

We'll see if the PRS HDRX20 will sell better than the Marshall SV20 in the EU/UK.
They are about the same price here.
But honestly I doubt it will.

Btw. these grey caps on the SV20 pcb are indeed polyester and made by Cornell Dubilier iirc - so not the worst choice.
And using yellow axial caps doesn't make them "audio grade" (whatever that means) automatically - though I like yellow axial caps like the MKT1813 a lot!
If it was my PRS HDRX20 I'd swap them for MKT1813 for sure!

 

[pat_rocks]

We'll see if the PRS HDRX20 will sell better than the Marshall SV20 in the EU/UK.
They are about the same price here.
But honestly I doubt it will.

Btw. these grey caps on the SV20 pcb are indeed polyester and made by Cornell Dubilier iirc - so not the worst choice.
And using yellow axial caps doesn't make them "audio grade" (whatever that means) automatically - though I like yellow axial caps like the MKT1813 a lot!
If it was my PRS HDRX20 I'd swap them for MKT1813 for sure!

i wasn't talking about the fact that they were audio grade because they were axial. But the brand they used makes those for audio applications.

look at those old marshall pcb and the components in them :

 

[pat_rocks]

Marshall did make that amp, and it was called the Super 100JH.

As for this PRS amp, the clips I've heard sounded mediocre at best, and the reviews I've seen are very disappointing ... though, it's most certainly more attainable, and at a fraction of the cost.

that's not it want it or not the market is asking for tube amps with small dimensions and big sound at low bedroom volumes. the SV20h still is way too big. If marshall optimized the room they could have removed 1/3 of the size. They could have added a push pull master volume and so on.

Paul understands what the market needs and wants and he gives it a shot. On the other hand marshall is still slow at understanding it.

 

[fitz]

I don't want to sound or look like a jerk.

Ok, try posting your actual experience instead of speculation and reposting someone else's opinion.
Buy both and post your comparison video.

 

[pat_rocks]

Ok, try posting your actual experience instead of speculation and reposting someone else's opinion.
Buy both and post your comparison video.

that's not it, why is marshall not diging into copying famous artists plexis with their mods and giving us small boxes with master volumes ?

Just imagine a mini 20w steve vai plexi with the josé mods (that was his recording amp)... and a master volume that doesn't suck that would sell a lot...

 

[fitz]

that's not it, why is marshall not diging into copying famous artists plexis with their mods and giving us small boxes with master volumes ?

Just imagine a mini 20w steve vai plexi with the josé mods (that was his recording amp)... and a master volume that doesn't suck that would sell a lot...

How many niche market models do you think they should mass produce?
What you see as your ideal amp configuration may not be what everyone else wants.
I have a few different 20w-ish amps and a few different pedals.
Gets me just about any tone I can want.
Or perhaps PRS will soon dominate the global amp market.

 

[pat_rocks]

How many niche market models do you think they should mass produce?
What you see as your ideal amp configuration may not be what everyone else wants.
I have a few different 20w-ish amps and a few different pedals.
Gets me just about any tone I can want.
Or perhaps PRS will soon dominate the global amp market.

that's not it : instead of mass producing tons and tons of standard models it would be better to offer small batches of various models with higher quality. For example many already have a standard plexi and once you have one many won't buy another except if it is hot rodded and if there are particularities about it that are different. it migh be worth it.

example of models :

- EVH 68 SL
- Jimmy Page SL
- George Lynch + his mods.
- Steve Vai + josé mods.
- Hendrix JTM 45 + his mods....

and there are tons of legendary guitarists which have their own marshall for recording and those have various mods and when they are stock some components might vary from the actual standard.

they could offer them at 20/50/100 watt versions and i bet they would sell those more than the current production models.

All those amps sound different compared to the standard models and reissues that marshall sells. It would be cool to have those marshall amps with their mods at our disposal.

don't you think it is sad that hendrix was the greatest marshall embassador the first big one and that's prs which is milking that legacy ?

honestly i didn't like the prs amps but what they have done is amazing. the amp when cranked really has this hendrix mojo fizzy sound.






this thing has balls for a jtm45 even when the master volume isn't on 10.

 

[fitz]

instead of mass producing tons and tons of standard models it would be better to offer small batches of various models with higher quality.

Profitability, sustainability and organizational growth comes from mass producing tons and tons of standard models at controllable costs.
They would be out of business making you your custom small batch high quality boutique artist signature amps at any price point.
If you want a custom build, find a custom builder and open your wallet, or heat up the soldering iron.

 

[pat_rocks]

Profitability, sustainability and organizational growth comes from mass producing tons and tons of standard models at controllable costs.
They would be out of business making you your custom small batch high quality boutique artist signature amps at any price point.
If you want a custom build, find a custom builder and open your wallet, or heat up the soldering iron.

I get it, but then explain me how did friedman amplification went from a small boutique amp seller to a big name in the current amp market ? They offer tons of various models which are just variations of plexi amps. if they did it why couldn't marshall do it ? When you are the big name you can milk your name with greed without even improving or expanding your line up. That's what marshall did... However when they made those 1w amps they saw they sold very well... why couldn't they just continue to sell them and improve them ?

hopefully they will release the new small amps that rumors are talking about but I really hope they will have a master volume and they will not make an excessively big cab.