The particularities about Eddie Van Halen plexi 12301

[pittbull]

I didn’t think there was to much gain especially for the Van Halen 1 sound(first album)the last song Jim played on the YouTube clip listed above was “I’m The One “ heres the iso clip of I’m the One

 

[junk notes]

2 SM 56's on the Invoice

Shure SM56 / Sennheiser MD421 on the amp - Donn Landee

It is definitely possible Eddie used different voltages at different clubs though.

The lowest he ever went was 60, that depending on the size of room he was playing. He would set the voltage anywhere between 60 to 100. That became his volume knob. When they they played on the strip at Gazzarri's he would have it down to 60. If they were playing somewhere a little bit bigger venue he would crank it to 80. The sweet spot for recording was 89.

 

[pittbull]

I think the sweet spot is between 60-70 volts for the early brown sound(78)I don’t think the size of the place matter because the cabinet is micd anyway. The 5150 amps(Peavey-EVH) are biased gold from the factory for a reason the reason is it contributes to the early brown sound the transformers on those amps were designed that way

 

[pat_rocks]

The playing at the end of that video sounds like too much gain to me. It is definitely possible Eddie used different voltages at different clubs though.

I agree with him on the JBL's. There is zero doubt in my mind that one of the mics on the first album was on a JBL. As I said previously, you can get close without one, but a JBL just gives that sound with no effort.

This is Eddies plexi : I mean the hole on left : it could be a small knob, or a screw covering the place for a potentiometer or a switchraft. Oddly enough this hole on the left is put where the v0 empty hole socket is... If this hole was drilled it was to modify a marshall. A modified marshall is in fact a modded marshall.

 

[solarburn]

View attachment 120320

This is Eddies plexi : I mean the hole on left : it could be a small knob, or a screw covering the place for a potentiometer or a switchraft. Oddly enough this hole on the left is put where the v0 empty hole socket is... If this hole was drilled it was to modify a marshall. A modified marshall is in fact a modded marshall.

Looks like a "violated" Marshall.

 

[pittbull]

Solarburn I love your replies man 👍👍anyway Here’s a pic of the amp with the pot/knob(to the left) that photo was taking at sunset sound studio when Van Halen was recording Van Halen II

 

[pat_rocks]

The playing at the end of that video sounds like too much gain to me. It is definitely possible Eddie used different voltages at different clubs though.

I agree with him on the JBL's. There is zero doubt in my mind that one of the mics on the first album was on a JBL. As I said previously, you can get close without one, but a JBL just gives that sound with no effort.

Watch that Sunset Sound video. He says "stock" amp with a variac at 90 and rebiased. At some point Jose added the fat cap and he may have changed the bias as well, so I have stock in quotes, but extra gain stages or an MV with clipping diodes are extremely unlikely.

Also, listen to the room mic and the two separate speaker mic tracks he plays in that video. That absolutely does not sound like a "Jose mod" amp to me. I think Eddie lied about that just like he lied about turning the variac up and not down. He was intentionally making it hard on people trying to copy him.

If you don't want to believe me here is the ultimate proof that evh marshall was moded :



potentiometer knob in front of the v0 unused hole tube. that's where josé put his gain/overdrive tube by adding a valve.

here is how i suppose it was hidden.

this mod is called three in one or threeways mod by josé

 

[Chris Banuelos]

It has been confirmed that EVH plexi was stock by many people like Suhr, Friedman and even George metropoulos.

So people began to think that evh had a regular 68' 12000 series and the story ends there. However as you may know about vintage gear, it hapenned that sometimes the guys at marshall's were short on components and used other parts resulting in variations in amplifiers and in tone. this is what supposedely happened to EVH plexi.

Even if EVH plexi is stock, many values have nothing to do with a stock plexi of the 12000 series. Here is a board values of the EVH plexi (in the yellow rectangle) according to pictures of the Suhr Sl68. The major differences with a regular 12000 series have been circled in yellow.

View attachment 119716

This is the "regular" (there had some variations of it) version of the 12000 series :

View attachment 119712

The principal mod that was done to this plexi was the replacement of the middle pot by a 50k mid pot instead of the regular 25k : this was confirmed by george metropoulos and Friedman.
Now for the 5000 pf bright cap it is supposed that it was used as some models of sl68 have it and others don't.
the last mod was the use of (sylvania) 6ca7 fat bottle tubes a variation of the el34.

Dave friedman recieved eddies plexi to repair the transformer. He found a stock plexi with the same transformer and rewound the wire on the original one. here is what Dave friedman apparently said in metropoulos forums about eddies plexi :

Post by RACKSYSTEMS » Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:40 pm

Split cathode V1a 250uF/820,V1b .68/820
All coupling caps are 0.022uF,Bright channel coupling cap is 0.0022uF

470k mixer resistors
500pf [red out of 69 amp] mixer bypass cap
Bypass cap on V2a is .68uF and a 220uf to 470uf
33k/560pF lemco tone stack combo
100k NFB resistor at 4 ohm tap
220k bias splitter resistors
0.1 uF cap on presence control
.022uf output couplers

filtering is
2] 100uf's f&t in series mains
2] 32uf's f&t in series screens
1]100uf lcr phase inverter
1] dual 33 x 33 f&t preamp

It is interesting to see how variations of components even in a stock plexi could change the tone of an amplifier. Little accidents like shortage of components made those variations happen sometimes in the past. What is more funny it is that one of these ended up in the hands of a great guitar player. Just imagine the probabilites of it happening... crazy !

EDIT : Now there is still a possibility that eddie plexi had jose arredondo mods and that they influenced his signature tone and that those mods were removed when the amp went to the technicians. Yeah eddie knew a lot about gear. Steve Vai and Pete thorn seem to allude that perhaps josé had something to do with eddies plexi in this video :



Why am i posting this here ? To share but there is also a hope that Marshall will begin to do what prs did with hendrix and their HDRX 20. Recreating the tone of an icon of rock and making it available in a small size box. They reversed engeneer the transformers and made a 20watt version of it to miniaturize the tone. Finally they added a master volume on a plexi !!!

Now let's imagine that marshall made a 20 watt plexi called the SL78 (reference to evh first album) with those values above, a 50k mid pot, a PPIMV master volume, fx loop and finally they reduced the size compared to the sv20... Well they would sell many...

Good insight. Thanks for the info

 

[pittbull]

I(we) have been saying that

 

[pat_rocks]

I(we) have been saying that

Thanks. It is not easy to contradict the old rumors. there were many rumors :

1. it was stock and eddies tone was in his hands
2. It wasn't stock but had tons of josé mods.
3. Ted templeman was behind evh tone.

Possible Reality : It was a stock plexi with josé mods added and those mods didn't removed stock plexi parts so it is still stock. Van halen hands were a contribution to the tone but the josé mods were too. VH1 wouldn't sound vh1 without eddie but without josé mods too. When Vh sent the amp to the techs he removed the josé mods to keep its secret. As the josé mods didn't remove any stock part when the mods were removed it was a just a simple stock plexi. Then we could have ted templeman polishing the tone in the studio.

 

[pittbull]

If it was in Eddies hands each album would sound the same but that not real each album sounds different due to changes in gear not much the amp but more so guitar pickup changes and effects like eq pedals which were removed

 

[FleshOnGear]

If you don't want to believe me here is the ultimate proof that evh marshall was moded :

View attachment 120355

potentiometer knob in front of the v0 unused hole tube. that's where josé put his gain/overdrive tube by adding a valve. View attachment 120356

here is how i suppose it was hidden.

Bro, no friggin way.

 

[pittbull]

Eddie’s tone changed drastically when Sammy Hager joined the band(1986 5150 album- tour) that’s when Bob Bradshaw came into play with all the rack gear

 

[FleshOnGear]

Eddie’s tone changed drastically when Sammy Hager joined the band(1986 5150 album- tour) that’s when Bob Bradshaw came into play with all the rack gear

Sure, but there was also a difference between VH1 and the tone he got on the next three albums.

 

[pittbull]

Yes I said that due to guitar pickups changes and the removal of the eq pedals(Boss ge 10 and MXR 6 band)

 

[BluezMe]

Shure SM56 / Sennheiser MD421 on the amp - Donn Landee

I'm assuming you're referencing the Sennheiser as a third Mic ?
Sunset Sound has the 2 56's on their invoice. Of course we can't see the bottom Mic in the photo.
And they certainly weren't playing Eruption... Kehew thinks they were recording Jamie's Cryin' when that Studio 1 photo was taken (he's been over those Tapes... and Ed's playing his Destroyer)
I think Kehew said... anything on VH1 that didn't use a Whammy Bar... was the Destroyer

 

[BluezMe]

would like to know where that Sennheiser MD421 was placed... if close to a bare Birch Ply Cab... then there's possibly a 3rd component to the Cab / Speaker(s) Tone Combination.
Concerning Landee... this video is both Bizarre yet Informative.
First he says how close he paid attention... but wasn't until Diver Down... he noticed how ( I presume Ed ) placed the Speaker mics... (maybe the first time Ed tried this) then Landee goes on to diagram the unusual Mic Placement.

 

[BluezMe]

Ultimate Proof ?... hummmmm
With all due respect... I'd say Proof would be a Gut Shot (a clear photo)
Remember... we have a guy here that actually Fabricated stories to keep others Guessing.
Wouldn't surprise me if that was a mounted Pot not wired to anything....
call me a Sceptic
Just can't imagine creating a situation where you have to pull the Chassis if you wanted to... or had to switch out the tube

 

[pittbull]

Who’s the guy that fabricated stories ??

 

[Gunner64]

Who’s the guy that fabricated stories ??

Eddie.

And I think the upside down tube thing is a stretch. By the time you got the tube far enough down to prevent shorting the solder lugs of the socket on the chassis I don't think there'd be enough room to mount a tube in that manner inside the chassis.

And really, was there that much secrecy in amp modding in the 70s that someone would put that much thought into hiding a tube?