The particularities about Eddie Van Halen plexi 12301

pittbull

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Choco18 you’re correct about the amp/modders that look at Eddie’s Marshall which was in the very early 1990s Jose Arrendondo was Eddie’s main amp guy in the 1970s until Jose death. Here is the Van Halen II studio photo of the back of Eddie marshall plexi look to the left of the amp and you can plainly see a pot/knob and the other was taken in the 1990s in Guitar World magazine of the back of Eddie marshall plexi and you can plainly see to the left of the amp that a screw was inserted were the pot/knob was located
 

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matttornado

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Suhr,Fryette,Friedman,Bogner,Soldano,seen the amp in the very early 1990s ,Jose Arrendondo was Eddie’s main amp guy in the 70s until Joses death if you look at the famous Van Halen II studio photo you can see the back Eddie’s plexi you can see a pot/knob in the back of the amp which was the removed in the late 80s there is a photo of the amp in the 1990s guitar player magazine which shows a screw was inserted to cover the hole where the pot/knob was
that what i mean when i said he sent it to the dutch guy. he wired it stock. maybe he put the screw in to cover the hole.
 

matttornado

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maybe Ed had a jose master with the zener diodes and that gave him some extra sizzle?
Choco18 you’re correct about the amp/modders that look at Eddie’s Marshall which was in the very early 1990s Jose Arrendondo was Eddie’s main amp guy in the 1970s until Jose death. Here is the Van Halen II studio photo of the back of Eddie marshall plexi look to the left of the amp and you can plainly see a pot/knob and the other was taken in the 1990s in Guitar World magazine of the back of Eddie marshall plexi and you can plainly see to the left of the amp that a screw was inserted were the pot/knob was located
 

pittbull

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It was a master volume Eddie complained all the time in the club days that it was to loud Eddie met Jose Arrendondo in 1974 his Marshall plexi had a unstable bias control thats the first time he met Jose
 
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chocol8

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OK,a little time to write more...apologies to anyone who has to read this :D

If you watch the Friedman/Thorn video where is tests a number of factors, while there are definitely differences in tone, pretty much every sample falls well within the realm of "sounds a lot like EVH". The things all the tones have in common include a Strat with a hot humbucker in the bridge, not loaded by a tone pot, and a 4 hole NMV Marshall style amp (specifically 68 or later split cathode circuits) cranked.

Now, when you focus in on the amps, the mods Dave put on switches all made an audible difference, but how important are they really? The fat cap and the 50k tone pot change the EQ of the amp, boosting bass and mids, but there are other ways to get the same effect.

1) boost the signal a bit and then roll back the treble to 7 or 8 or so. Bass and mids will be relatively higher.
2) Use a fatter sounding pickup with more bass and mids (see the 23 pickup video to hear exactly this effect)
3) use a little EQ
4) use different speakers, mics, and mic placement to thicken up the recorded tone.

The impact of the negative feedback is more difficult to make up for somewhere else, but it is also subtle and not make or break for achieving EVH's early tones IMHO.

Amp voltage makes a difference. Normally the 100w Marshall's runs at a higher B+ than the equivalent 50w versions. With the variac, EVH ran his at lower voltages. The 50 still get pretty close, but the rolling the voltage back (not all the way to 90 because you are starting lower) would get it even closer. Tubes didn't really matter that much although biasing for the voltage use did.

Adding the JBL definitely got him closer to VH1 tone, and there is nothing exactly like a JBL, but different brighter speakers, different mics and positioning, and post amp EQ could all get you pretty close.

So in summary, we won't ever know for sure what was in that amp in 1977 but we don't need to. We can just use our ears. Take a NMV Marshall circuit and drive it with a hot humbucker. If the amp sounds a bit thinner, use a fatter pickup or EQ. If the amp has the mods to thicken it up, use a thinner pickup or EQ. Add phaser, flanger, and delay where appropriate...done. If that's still not working out, you will find the issue in a mirror.
 

chocol8

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maybe Ed had a jose master with the zener diodes and that gave him some extra sizzle?

I don't think so. If you play a hot pickup into a cranked Plexi on a variac, it already has the right amount of gain and sizzle. I don't hear the diode clipping in early VH recordings, but who knows.
 

pittbull

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Go to YouTube and listen to Ossie Ahsen on the Van halen 1 sound very informative Also listen to Jim Gaustad another very informative person
 

TheOtherEric

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… When you look at the guts of a bray coco you'll see that they are pretty close to the suhr sl68 and no one matches EVH tone like David Bray amps does :

Check david bray amps in the video i posted. Inspect the guts of those amps and you'll see the answers. I believe he is the only one to have cracked completely the code.
I don’t know how you can claim the Bray Coco 50 guts are like the SL68 or Eddie’s amp or anything else, since David Bray sands off all the lettering of his caps. I actually did what you suggest — analyze the circuit of a Coco 50 — but couldn’t conclude much since all the cap values are unknown.
 

mickeydg5

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Eddie DID NOT use many effects at all actually , especially compared to other players of his era . That's why live recordings of Van Halen in 1978 sound just like the album.
That is because he used the same effects in his live sound as in his recorded sound. Just like Page.
Back then they did not show "racks" in the magazines, but I read many articles on them which indicated and sometimes detailed effects and recording units used to achieve certain effects and sound.

THAT INFORMFATION IS WHAT I USED TO BASE MY RIG. IT CAN BE USED FOR LIVE AS WELL AS FINAL RECORDING.
MY RIG CAN BE USDED TO EMULATE ANY ARTIST SOUND, BOTH THEN AND NOW. No F'n modifications required to anything.
 

BluezMe

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I'm writting this thread because EVH is probably the ultimate reference tone for a plexi. After a plexi the best tone would be the tone of a peavey 5150 particulary the tone of Dann Huff :
the most underrated guitar player which was unfortunately born at the wrong time...

Huge Dan Huff Fan.... Born at the wrong Time ?.. I don't now about that. He's managed his Career pretty well. His father was a Composer... Arranger and Conductor which had to have an influence on him. Going off to LA as a Session Player... Wiki him... the volume of Work and Artists he Recorded with (and now producing) is Astounding.
Love this Video... in front of a Killer band with only a Hand Held Mic... singing your Ass off... then a Scandinavian Blond comes out with your Guitar just before the Solo.... so Frickin' Cool !!



5+ years ago... a Giant Benefit Reunion... appears Dan still has his Chops

 
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mickeydg5

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Marshall already made the ultimate Plexi bedroom amp and they also made the perfect JCM 800 bedroom amp the problem is they only made them in 2012 .


If anybody is not convinced this super low watt Plexi delivers early VH sound to perfection than listen for yourself :


JMP 1 WATT SOUNDS BELOW:

Lonely is the night



Running with the devil



Jamies Crying



Lay it down








JCM 800 1 WATT SOUNDS BELOW:




If Marshall made these a year round stock item like everybody has been wanting them to they would sell tens of millions year in year out . The current DSL 1 watt SUCKS in comparison to these 50th anniversary models.

That sounds good but please tell us everything in the music chain including computer shit before uploading the video.
 

PowerTube44

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I've said it before and I'll say it again. When you listen to the early Van Halen recordings, you're hearing exactly that. Recordings. The mic type, mic placement, the room, the guitar, the pickup, the strings, the mixing board, and who knows what else.

There's nothing whatsoever wrong in chasing Eddie's tone, and in fact, it sounds like a fun hobby. But at the end of the day, I'm willing to bet that you could take a brand new Marshall Origin, and with the right pedals in the right order and the right guitar, you could nail Eddie's tone.
 

BluezMe

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[sarcasm] Gee, I wonder what brand bright cap he is using to get that tone?[/sarcasm]

Off the shelf MIM guitar, a few simple effects, STOCK Marshall circuit. If you aren’t getting the same results, it’s your technique and no amount of gear purchasing or modding will get you there.
Technique... ahhh... the Secret Sauce. That's the Thing that stood out for me (besides the Tone and the Licks)... Pick Gauge... how you Hold it... how Hard you attack a string... where you attack it... close to the Bridge... more towards the middle... Appears he has that figured out pretty well.
 

pat_rocks

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OK,a little time to write more...apologies to anyone who has to read this :D

If you watch the Friedman/Thorn video where is tests a number of factors, while there are definitely differences in tone, pretty much every sample falls well within the realm of "sounds a lot like EVH". The things all the tones have in common include a Strat with a hot humbucker in the bridge, not loaded by a tone pot, and a 4 hole NMV Marshall style amp (specifically 68 or later split cathode circuits) cranked.

Now, when you focus in on the amps, the mods Dave put on switches all made an audible difference, but how important are they really? The fat cap and the 50k tone pot change the EQ of the amp, boosting bass and mids, but there are other ways to get the same effect.

1) boost the signal a bit and then roll back the treble to 7 or 8 or so. Bass and mids will be relatively higher.
2) Use a fatter sounding pickup with more bass and mids (see the 23 pickup video to hear exactly this effect)
3) use a little EQ
4) use different speakers, mics, and mic placement to thicken up the recorded tone.

The impact of the negative feedback is more difficult to make up for somewhere else, but it is also subtle and not make or break for achieving EVH's early tones IMHO.

Amp voltage makes a difference. Normally the 100w Marshall's runs at a higher B+ than the equivalent 50w versions. With the variac, EVH ran his at lower voltages. The 50 still get pretty close, but the rolling the voltage back (not all the way to 90 because you are starting lower) would get it even closer. Tubes didn't really matter that much although biasing for the voltage use did.

Adding the JBL definitely got him closer to VH1 tone, and there is nothing exactly like a JBL, but different brighter speakers, different mics and positioning, and post amp EQ could all get you pretty close.

So in summary, we won't ever know for sure what was in that amp in 1977 but we don't need to. We can just use our ears. Take a NMV Marshall circuit and drive it with a hot humbucker. If the amp sounds a bit thinner, use a fatter pickup or EQ. If the amp has the mods to thicken it up, use a thinner pickup or EQ. Add phaser, flanger, and delay where appropriate...done. If that's still not working out, you will find the issue in a mirror.
Another interesting thing is that if the picture i linked previously is really eddies amp it can mean that the three in one mod was done to eddie's plexi. Why ? the last unused tube socket hole has screw holes which are thorn out and weary. This means that it has certainly been screwed and unscrewed a lot. Oddly enough the three in one mod that josé did adds a gain stage and a valve. The knob on the back would not be a master volume but a gain knob. Ossie does the mod to other plexis.

This could have easily done and hidden by reversing the socket and the valve and adding mountinfg legs to the valve chassis holes and then putting the usual metal cover on the other side. As an 12ax7 valve has not a huge height the chassis is deep enough for this.
:
 
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chocol8

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Anything could have been done to that amp, but my ears don’t hear extra gain in the early VH recordings, studio or live. Run a Plexi at 90 volts and hit with a hot pickup and you have all the gain you need.
 

pat_rocks

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Anything could have been done to that amp, but my ears don’t hear extra gain in the early VH recordings, studio or live. Run a Plexi at 90 volts and hit with a hot pickup and you have all the gain you need.
you know early VH has like a spitting sound it is like if speakers are spitting sound and having a cough. It is extremely unique to the vh sound if you listen to isolated tracks. I can tell you that no cranked marshall has this cough speaker sound that's why i believe there must have been more to it. Yeah it had also to do with the jbl120f. However i believe josés mods to be the thing, If it wasn't the case why did supposedely Roth recommended josé to steve vai and why does sammy hagar asks vic johnson to get josé's mods ? Ossie is making those mods to vic johnson. Vic Johnson is the actual guitarist of sammy hagar. I mean it's like half of the 80's famous guitarists knew josé at some point. Many of those guitarists have one point in common they like evh tone or were at some point fans or impressed by evh. There is something weird about it. I believe that evh got josé's mods but with different specs that those he would do for other guitarists.
 

PowerTube44

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you know early VH has like a spitting sound it is like if speakers are spitting sound and having a cough. It is extremely unique to the vh sound if you listen to isolated tracks. I can tell you that no cranked marshall has this cough speaker sound that's why i believe there must have been more to it. Yeah it had also to do with the jbl120f. However i believe josés mods to be the thing, If it wasn't the case why did supposedely Roth recommended josé to steve vai and why does sammy hagar asks vic johnson to get josé's mods ? Ossie is making those mods to vic johnson. Vic Johnson is the actual guitarist of sammy hagar. I mean it's like half of the 80's famous guitarists knew josé at some point. Many of those guitarists have one point in common they like evh tone or were at some point fans or impressed by evh. There is something weird about it. I believe that evh got josé's mods but with different specs that those he would do for other guitarists.

Yeah, it's almost like a "fizzy with clarity" sort of thing. There's fizz around the edges and punch in the center. It's hard to describe.
 

Derek S

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^^ To me that sound is like the amp on the verge of exploding, very angry about being pushed to the brink, as if the tubes are biased really hot...short life span levels lol
 

chocol8

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^^ To me that sound is like the amp on the verge of exploding, very angry about being pushed to the brink, as if the tubes are biased really hot...short life span levels lol

Plus reduced negative feedback.

To be clear I don't know anything about what Eddie really used or didn't other than not to trust a word he said, but my ears are not hearing any extra gain amp modifications in those tones.
 

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