The Official Marshall Studio Classic Thread Sc20

tonycaster

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It is just me or the Sc20 has way more gain than its elder version? I have a '78 JMP MKII 2203, with the exact same tubes (V1 Mullard CV4004 RI, V2 EH12AX7, V3 Sovtek 12AX7 LPS, V4-V8 original Svetlana EL34) it has a ton more headroom than the smaller version
 

Calebz

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I'm running the pre at around 6 & the same w/ the hot-mod. Don't need any more gain, but have plenty more on tap, if I want...

That's about where I run mine (exception being I have a regular hotmod, not a Mr scary.)

Then I hit the front with a treble booster.

Marshalls have never been my go-to amps. But the sc-20 with the hotmod is getting a lot more play time than expected
 

colchar

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It is just me or the Sc20 has way more gain than its elder version? I have a '78 JMP MKII 2203, with the exact same tubes (V1 Mullard CV4004 RI, V2 EH12AX7, V3 Sovtek 12AX7 LPS, V4-V8 original Svetlana EL34) it has a ton more headroom than the smaller version


Of course a 100 watt amp is going to have more headroom than a 20 watt amp.
 

scozz

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It is just me or the Sc20 has way more gain than its elder version? I have a '78 JMP MKII 2203, with the exact same tubes (V1 Mullard CV4004 RI, V2 EH12AX7, V3 Sovtek 12AX7 LPS, V4-V8 original Svetlana EL34) it has a ton more headroom than the smaller version
It’s not you Tony, it’s the amps. Higher wattage tube amps have significantly more headroom than lower wattage tube amps.

You’ll even loose some headroom with your SC20, switching from the 20 watt setting to the 5 watt setting.
 

scozz

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You 2 know I’m busting balls for using attenuators. :D

I know my girl wishes the fuck mine would blow up already!!!
She wants your attenuator to blow up or your amps to blow up?! :D

Hopefully she means the attenuator,…:jam:

I’ve gone back to using my attenuator, I found a sweet spot that virtually retains all the dynamics of the amp.

It’s only a few db’s being attenuated, but I able to crank the amp up around 8 on the master and 6 or 7 with the preamp, in the 20 watt setting.

A nice blend of power amp and preamp saturation, I wouldn’t be able to do that without an attenuator. I downloaded a db meter on my phone, just to see what the db range is in the room, it was around 88 to 96 db’s.

But I don’t know how accurate these db meter apps actually are.
 

PelliX

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Of course a 100 watt amp is going to have more headroom than a 20 watt amp.

At the same volume, perhaps. If you deduct those dB for the 20 watter - then not per se.

I'm curious too and have never used the 88's so I'm quite sure one day, in the not so distant future, you'll see that I have joined the "Club". The BBTE(Biggest Bottled Toob Evar)club stuck in a mini Marshall. Couple a real throbbers if you will.
:naughty:

I don't mean to ruin your day (and I'm very much still digging my KT88's in the SC), but you know the KT120 is out, right....
:D


Note that depending on the age the 6CA7 is a beam tetrode or a pentode like an EL34. They started out different, but manufacturers started simpifying their product ranges while retaining the name.

Also, to the best of my knowledge, the SC20 *always* shipped with JJ exclusively in all position. Marshall stopped using Shuguang valves in the DSL line beore the SC20 was launched. The problem wasn't reliability or poor sound, but consistency. Shuguang generally sounded nice, but were a bit of a gamble. There's a sticky on the forum for the Marshall Valve Codes which provides a bit of insight into "what's what".
 

scozz

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………….Note that depending on the age the 6CA7 is a beam tetrode or a pentode like an EL34. They started out different, but manufacturers started simpifying their product ranges while retaining the name.

Also, to the best of my knowledge, the SC20 *always* shipped with JJ exclusively in all position. ………..
On your first point @PelliX, I’ve read where some manufacturers are now, or maybe have been, going back to the original, (different than a el34), 6CA7 design.

Do you have any info on that?

I put a pair of 6CA7s’ in my SC a few months ago, I don’t know if they are the el34 clone, or the new/old original design.

On the SC’s original tubes, my SC, (2019 model), definitely had JJ El34’s power tubes, but the preamp tubes only had the Marshall name on them. I was always under the impression that they were JJs, just branded as Marshall.
 

PelliX

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On your first point @PelliX, I’ve read where some manufacturers are now, or maybe have been, going back to the original, (different than a el34), 6CA7 design.

Do you have any info on that?

Well, EHX (New Sensor) do seem to have them:


If you compare them with their EL34, you can see that they're quite different - maybe I should snag me a pair soon... :D

I put a pair of 6CA7s’ in my SC a few months ago, I don’t know if they are the el34 clone, or the new/old original design.

Sovtek/GT/EHX/etc (New Sensor)? JJ don't use the classical design:


Not sure about Shuguang and co from China.

On the SC’s original tubes, my SC, (2019 model), definitely had JJ El34’s power tubes, but the preamp tubes only had the Marshall name on them. I was always under the impression that they were JJs, just branded as Marshall.

The preamp valves should have a VLVE-xxxxx code which, with any luck, is in the sticky for the valve codes. I can also confirm mine were all JJ. Leme dig up a pic.

full


full


You’ll even loose some headroom with your SC20, switching from the 20 watt setting to the 5 watt setting.

That's not quite the same; switching the output mode on the SC is actually dropping voltage on the output stage. The voltages all round are a bit lower on the SC than their bigger brothers in 'high' or normal mode, plus they're cathode biased which gives them more sustain and makes them a little more spongy if you wish. If you compare headroom on a 2204 and a 2203, however, the simple 'wattage' of the amp will not change the headroom.
 
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solarburn

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At the same volume, perhaps. If you deduct those dB for the 20 watter - then not per se.



I don't mean to ruin your day (and I'm very much still digging my KT88's in the SC), but you know the KT120 is out, right....
:D


Note that depending on the age the 6CA7 is a beam tetrode or a pentode like an EL34. They started out different, but manufacturers started simpifying their product ranges while retaining the name.

Also, to the best of my knowledge, the SC20 *always* shipped with JJ exclusively in all position. Marshall stopped using Shuguang valves in the DSL line beore the SC20 was launched. The problem wasn't reliability or poor sound, but consistency. Shuguang generally sounded nice, but were a bit of a gamble. There's a sticky on the forum for the Marshall Valve Codes which provides a bit of insight into "what's what".
Did not know bout the 120’.😮
 

solarburn

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She wants your attenuator to blow up or your amps to blow up?! :D

Hopefully she means the attenuator,…:jam:

I’ve gone back to using my attenuator, I found a sweet spot that virtually retains all the dynamics of the amp.

It’s only a few db’s being attenuated, but I able to crank the amp up around 8 on the master and 6 or 7 with the preamp, in the 20 watt setting.

A nice blend of power amp and preamp saturation, I wouldn’t be able to do that without an attenuator. I downloaded a db meter on my phone, just to see what the db range is in the room, it was around 88 to 96 db’s.

But I don’t know how accurate these db meter apps actually are.
My amps!!!
 

scozz

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Well, EHX (New Sensor) do seem to have them:


If you compare them with their EL34, you can see that they're quite different - maybe I should snag me a pair soon... :D



Sovtek/GT/EHX/etc (New Sensor)? JJ don't use the classical design:


Not sure about Shuguang and co from China.



The preamp valves should have a VLVE-xxxxx code which, with any luck, is in the sticky for the valve codes. I can also confirm mine were all JJ. Leme dig up a pic.

full


full




That's not quite the same; switching the output mode on the SC is actually dropping voltage on the output stage. The voltages all round are a bit lower on the SC than their bigger brothers in 'high' or normal mode, plus they're cathode biased which gives them more sustain and makes them a little more spongy if you wish. If you compare headroom on a 2204 and a 2203, however, the simple 'wattage' of the amp will not change the headroom.
Yes, those pics of the your SC20 tubes are all the same tubes that came in mine.

Also the EH6ca7’s you reference are the ones I’ve got in my SC now, to my ears they sound a bit fuller with slightly more low end than the el34’s I’ve had in it.

I had two different el34’s before the 6ca7’s, the stock JJ’s, and I also tried a set of Mullard New Production el34’s too.

@solarburn had a pair of 6ca7’s in his SC20 for a while, and he liked them so I thought I’d give a pair a try. I like Joes approach to guitar playing, very similar to my own, and I respect his opinion, as I do yours @PelliX.

@solarburn is like the old E.F. Hutton commercials to me,… ‘When @solarburn Talks, Scozz Listens. :D
 

PelliX

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Also the EH6ca7’s you reference are the ones I’ve got in my SC now, to my ears they sound a bit fuller with slightly more low end than the el34’s I’ve had in it.

That makes sense - cool! :)

I had two different el34’s before the 6ca7’s, the stock JJ’s, and I also tried a set of Mullard New Production el34’s too.

Mullard CP is/was AFAIK all New Sensor - but they indeed make an EL34 *and* a 6CA7. I'm looking around for a decent pair of EHX 6CA7's now...

@solarburn Have some more Toob Pr0n: https://www.tungsol.com/specs/kt150-tung-sol.pdf

Note that the 2A heater current draw is probably nearing the SC PT's limits.... I think my 88's are beefy enough.
 
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DirtySteve

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So I was having a lot of noise issues with certain pedals and it was starting to get frustrating. I couldn't even use my GE-7 because it's so noisy and my favorite OD (MXR Classic OD) is pretty noisy, too. I couldn't hardly play my P-90 guitar because there was so much noise. Well today I found a Rocktron Micro Hush pedal in a box when I was looking for something else. What a great pedal! I've got no more noise and it doesn't seem to do anything negative to the tone. I can even play my P-90 now with my pedals on and it's quiet as can be. I don't remember ever buying this pedal, but I'm sure glad I did.

 

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@solarburn I've decided to take @scozz 's advice and give your approach a try. Before the Russian stock dries up, I've ordered a few EH 6CA7's. So far I think the JJ KT88's are the best sounding in the SC, but I'll gladly be proven wrong (and for a lower price!). :D
 

solarburn

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@solarburn I've decided to take @scozz 's advice and give your approach a try. Before the Russian stock dries up, I've ordered a few EH 6CA7's. So far I think the JJ KT88's are the best sounding in the SC, but I'll gladly be proven wrong (and for a lower price!). :D
Yah I do like the EH 6CA7's . Hopefully they'll do good for you too. I've used them in my a DSL50/40, Origin, SC, Plexi, 900 anywhere where 34's were the power tubes. They are a fav of mine. Always a win when the expense is less and tone is good.

Right now I'm digging the JJ 6550's in the SC. I've got my eye's on the 88's too cause I keep hearing good things about them. I've already used 6550's so I knew what I was going to get with them. 88's will be a cool experiment. DOD uses the 88's and really likes them in his SC too. I like the description of characteristics attached to them.
 

scozz

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So I was having a lot of noise issues with certain pedals and it was starting to get frustrating. I couldn't even use my GE-7 because it's so noisy and my favorite OD (MXR Classic OD) is pretty noisy, too. I couldn't hardly play my P-90 guitar because there was so much noise. Well today I found a Rocktron Micro Hush pedal in a box when I was looking for something else. What a great pedal! I've got no more noise and it doesn't seem to do anything negative to the tone. I can even play my P-90 now with my pedals on and it's quiet as can be. I don't remember ever buying this pedal, but I'm sure glad I did.

Why all the noise issues with pedals?
 

DirtySteve

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Why all the noise issues with pedals?
I don't know. It's not every pedal, my Bad Monkey, SD-1 and BYOC Reverb are dead quiet, but my 2 MXR classic ODs and my MXR Custom Audio Electronics Boost/OD and my GE-7 and MXR 10 band are really noisy as soon as I turn them on. I thought maybe they didn't like my 1 Spot power cord so I tried batteries in them and they're still noisy. It's not my cords or patch cables either, I checked those, too.
 

scozz

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Yah I do like the EH 6CA7's . Hopefully they'll do good for you too. I've used them in my a DSL50/40, Origin, SC, Plexi, 900 anywhere where 34's were the power tubes. They are a fav of mine. Always a win when the expense is less and tone is good.

Right now I'm digging the JJ 6550's in the SC. I’ve I’ve got my eyes on the 88’s too cause I keep hearing good things about them. I've already used 6550's so I knew what I was going to get with them. 88's will be a cool experiment. DOD uses the 88’s and really likes them in his SC too. DOD I like the description of characteristics attached to them.
Yeah, I read @Dogs of Doom comments too, and I’d love to give 88’s a try. But man, these tubes are expensive for me, a bit too rich for my blood, (do people still use that old saying), :shrug:

Anyone trying the new kt120? I’m curious, they’re like $270 a pair, (I could buy a nice Harley Benton for that price, lol!). I’d be interested in hearing some reviews of these tubes in the SC.
 

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