Please help me find this tone. Thanks!

Mastershon

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No. It is well documented that "Marshall plexi" refers to Marshalls made with plexiglass panels. Plexiglass panels were changed to metal in mid 1969. 70s Marshalls are not plexis.
Actually anything with a model 1959 circuit (and it’s model 1987 brother) is what is generally referred to by the guitar world as a ‘Plexi’. The circuit evolved slightly over the years but they are all what people consider a plexi. The actual implementation of plexiglass panels was used on many amps before and after the 1959, but aren’t considered a ‘plexi’ in a tonal context.
 

Derrick111

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Actually anything with a model 1959 circuit (and it’s model 1987 brother) is what is generally referred to by the guitar world as a ‘Plexi’. The circuit evolved slightly over the years but they are all what people consider a plexi. The actual implementation of plexiglass panels was used on many amps before and after the 1959, but aren’t considered a ‘plexi’ in a tonal context.

Please do some more reading of the history and facts of Marshalls before correcting others.
 

TheSaz

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If you were open both them and look at the circutry. They are identical, cosmetic changes are really all that changed.

Are you sayin the metal faces vs the plexiglass models are not plexis? They sound the same and the have similiar circuts.

You can get a reissued Plexi 1959 with a metal face and itll still be called a Plexi. Put a JTM, SLP, pretty much anything prior 2203 they all have 1 thing in common.. they're all plexis.
No. It is well documented that "Marshall plexi" refers to Marshalls made with plexiglass panels. Plexiglass panels were changed to metal in mid 1969. 70s Marshalls are not plexis.
 
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Derrick111

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Exactly what I am saying. I m
If you were open both them and look at the circutry. They are identical, cosmetic changes are really all that changed.

Are you sayin the metal faces vs the plexiglass models are not plexis? They sound the same and the have similiar circuts.

You can get a reissued Plexi 1959 with a metal face and itll still be called a Plexi.
That's exactly what I am saying. "1959" is a model - "plexi" refers to the era when the control panels were plexiglass. Capiche? Nobody who knows anything about Marshalls would call a metal panel Marshall made after summer 1969 a plexi. Noob mistake, mate.
 

TheSaz

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Who cares about panels?! 🤣 the post was about tone. He wasnt asking about panels or what year plexi went to metal lol. Its a plexi tone. Period. If you were to blindfold a plexi face with a metal, it would be hard to tell the difference. Johnny Ramone used plexi heads. Plexi or metal doesnt matter because they're both plexis
Exactly what I am saying. I m

That's exactly what I am saying. "1959" is a model - "plexi" refers to the era when the control panels were plexiglass. Capiche? Nobody who knows anything about Marshalls would call a metal panel Marshall made after summer 1969 a plexi. Noob mistake, mate.
 
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Matthews Guitars

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Plexi tone = Superlead tone, all day long. Yes, that's the common way of saying it. Yes, there were circuit changes to the 1959 circuit that did change the tone, starting around 1971, but let's be reasonable here. Superlead tone and plexi tone are two ways of saying the same thing, generally speaking. This is rock and roll, not a cork sniffing and wine tasting party.

It's a cranked 100 watt Superlead and that's good. Don't sweat the nuances. They're drowned out by the incredible amount of sound coming out of the speaker cabinets.

Yes, my '69 Plexi and my '73 Superlead are both 1959s and they have slightly different circuits and they sound kind of different. But not so different that you'd think one sounds like a Plexi and the other doesn't.

When Marshall went away from plexi (actually polycarbonate) panels in mid 1969 and switched to aluminum, they didn't make any circuit changes to go along with it. So....it's the same circuit, it's the same amp.
 

playloud

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If you were open both them and look at the circutry. They are identical, cosmetic changes are really all that changed.

Are you sayin the metal faces vs the plexiglass models are not plexis? They sound the same and the have similiar circuts.

You can get a reissued Plexi 1959 with a metal face and itll still be called a Plexi. Put a JTM, SLP, pretty much anything prior 2203 they all have 1 thing in common.. they're all plexis.

This isn't really true. The 1959 circuit changed a lot during the 'plexi' era (less so in the metal panel era). There's a big difference in sound between a 1959 from '66 (KT66s, shared cathode, 'bass' tonestack, low filtering etc.) and one from mid '69 (EL34s, split cathode, 2.2nF coupling cap on the bright channel, 50+50uf filter caps throughout etc. - same as the metal panels immediately following it, as you say).

I think the term 'plexi' is a nebulous description of sound at best, and it's usually thrown around by people who don't have a lot of experience with actual plexi-plated examples.

Back to the OP...

Happy Sunday everyone!

Could someone please listen to these two songs and advise on how to obtain the guitar tone? Any tips on amps, guitars, effects, etc. would be most helpful as I'm struggling to get it right. Thanks!

Don't Worry About Me - Joey Ramone

Going Under - Oranger

Cal

Are you referring to the Joey Ramone song, or the album that it appeared on? Johnny Ramone didn't play on either, so you can ignore most of the suggestions on the previous page.

Wikipedia suggests Mickey Leigh (Joey's brother) played on the song, whereas Daniel Rey played on the majority of the other songs on the album.

Listening to it now, the song has a NMV Marshall sound, but the playing is much more "classic rock" (reminds me of Glen Buxton's playing with Alice Cooper) than anything Johnny did.

As for the Oranger track, there are so many tones on that track (either several amps, several pedals, or both!)... I wouldn't know where to start.
 

Dirty-D

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The tone you want is in his fingers. Any amp Hendrix or Santana or Lifeson or Angus or Ace or Iommi play through will have their sound. If l played through any of those rigs it would sound like me.It's just how it is. l've seen it and heard it first hand.It's just part of the magic. On another note everyones vocal chords also look the same. Magic.
 

Derrick111

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I

It’s just what everyone is calling them..
Cheers

Usually just people who don't know any better, or who like to believe they have a legendary plexi.

Who cares about panels?! 🤣 the post was about tone. He wasnt asking about panels or what year plexi went to metal lol. Its a plexi tone. Period. If you were to blindfold a plexi face with a metal, it would be hard to tell the difference. Johnny Ramone used plexi heads. Plexi or metal doesnt matter because they're both plexis

Lots of people, that's who. To be clear, you claimed Johnny Ramone played plexis, and that simply isn't true. He played 70s Superleads, then JCM800s when in the Ramones. I assume you are way to young to have ever seen them play or talk to them. These are not plexis no matter how you look at it. Plexis were not made after the summer of 1969 until the reissue came out in 1989, and the amps Johnny used fall in that gap. Similar doesn't = same. I can assume you have not played a plexi, or an early 70s metal panel, or a late 70s JMP, and probably not a JCM800 or you would know this. So all you have is some misinformation you read on your phone. You can get similar sounds out of each like you can get similar sounds from an Agile LP copy vs a real Gibson Les Paul... but that doesn't mean the Agile is a Les Paul. Exhibit a folks:

Ramones Marshall amp.jpg
 
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Thanks for your reply! Gibson Les Paul Classic Lite into either Marshall DSL40CR or Origin 20C. Have been trying to get the tone through Boss Blues Driver, Super Overdrive, and Dyna Drive, with or without Feedback Booster but chasing my tail. My band mates and I don’t really like the OD1 and OD2 channels on the DSL while the Origin doesn’t have an OD channel. Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks.
 

Cal Nevari

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The tone you want is in his fingers. Any amp Hendrix or Santana or Lifeson or Angus or Ace or Iommi play through will have their sound. If l played through any of those rigs it would sound like me.It's just how it is. l've seen it and heard it first hand.It's just part of the magic. On another note everyones vocal chords also look the same. Magic.
Excellent point. That's why they receive all the praise they so justly deserve. Can't tell you how many times I've set up a guitar, amp, and pedals (if any) exactly as one of those worthies does and still can't get the tone. They have the gift!
 

TheSaz

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Usually just people who don't know any better, or who like to believe they have a legendary plexi.



Lots of people, that's who. To be clear, you claimed Johnny Ramone played plexis, and that simply isn't true. He played 70s Superleads, then JCM800s when in the Ramones. I assume you are way to young to have ever seen them play or talk to them. These are not plexis no matter how you look at it. Plexis were not made after the summer of 1969 until the reissue came out in 1989, and the amps Johnny used fall in that gap. Similar doesn't = same. I can assume you have not played a plexi, or an early 70s metal panel, or a late 70s JMP, and probably not a JCM800 or you would know this. So all you have is some misinformation you read on your phone. You can get similar sounds out of each like you can get similar sounds from an Agile LP copy vs a real Gibson Les Paul... but that doesn't mean the Agile is a Les Paul. Exhibit a folks:
A Super Lead is still a Plexi..

How many times do i have to keep typing this?

20221004_190610.jpg
 

V-man

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Usually just people who don't know any better, or who like to believe they have a legendary plexi.



Lots of people, that's who. To be clear, you claimed Johnny Ramone played plexis, and that simply isn't true. He played 70s Superleads, then JCM800s when in the Ramones. I assume you are way to young to have ever seen them play or talk to them. These are not plexis no matter how you look at it. Plexis were not made after the summer of 1969 until the reissue came out in 1989, and the amps Johnny used fall in that gap. Similar doesn't = same. I can assume you have not played a plexi, or an early 70s metal panel, or a late 70s JMP, and probably not a JCM800 or you would know this. So all you have is some misinformation you read on your phone. You can get similar sounds out of each like you can get similar sounds from an Agile LP copy vs a real Gibson Les Paul... but that doesn't mean the Agile is a Les Paul. Exhibit a folks:
Good, I’m still not that tardy for the shit show.

The thing is that for reasons you had established and that a few have affirmed, you have a point of correctness, and yet you are wrong simultaneously.

A relevant segue first…

The referral to “JCM 800” encompasses the 2203/2204 about 80-85% of the time and the 2205/2210 about 10-15% of the time. The term has become so ubiquitous with the circuit, that references to other Marshall amps/channels etc. refer to a ”800/hot-rodded 800” in the vein of the 2203/4, not the 2205/10. The JCM-1 was the 2203 circuit condensed to the 1W. The “800 tone” of the Studio Classic pertains to the 2203/4 tones, not the 2205/10 or the others. The others? Yes… the 5% undiscussed JCM 800s in the series refer to the 1992/1986 (Super) Bass series amps, which share no affiliation with the JMP circuits. [Back to the relevance of the segue…]

And guess which else is lumped into that 5%? That would be the JCM 800 1959 SLP, AKA the “Super Lead [wait for it…] Plexi.” That’s right, the 800-badged 1959 circuit having even less commonality with the original “plexi-faced” 1959s is designated by Marshall itself as a Plexi. This now paints you into the corner into either conceding (thanks to Marshall’s abandonment of the nuances) that the 1959/1987 circuits are ”Plexis” (vs ”true Plexis” if you demand some dignified exit), OR you must die on the absolutely absurd hill that a Plexi is only the pre-metalface Marshall circuits and… fuck, the weird “800/pre-X“ series designated “Super Lead Plexis” by Marshall.
 

Derrick111

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A Super Lead is still a Plexi..

How many times do i have to keep typing this?

View attachment 116388
Ha, that doesn't prove your point. You don't seem to comprehend basic text. That is saying the 1959 is "one of the famous Marshall plexis" meaning there were other model plexis (like the 1987s, 1986s, etc.). It is not saying the plexi is defined as 1959 or Superlead. You don't even reveal your source. Well here's a source for you... A huge magazine called Guitar World... ever herd of it? And in it, they directly quote Phil Wells from MARSHALL saying:

"Although Marshall has never released an amplifier under the ‘Plexi’ moniker, the term is still used to refer to amps from the latter half of the 60s that featured Plexiglas panels (notably the Super Lead model 1959).

The term Plexi refers to the Plexiglas [acrylic] plastic panels we used during the 60s,” Marshall archivist Phil Wells tells us"


Good, I’m still not that tardy for the shit show.

The thing is that for reasons you had established and that a few have affirmed, you have a point of correctness, and yet you are wrong simultaneously.

A relevant segue first…

The referral to “JCM 800” encompasses the 2203/2204 about 80-85% of the time and the 2205/2210 about 10-15% of the time. The term has become so ubiquitous with the circuit, that references to other Marshall amps/channels etc. refer to a ”800/hot-rodded 800” in the vein of the 2203/4, not the 2205/10. The JCM-1 was the 2203 circuit condensed to the 1W. The “800 tone” of the Studio Classic pertains to the 2203/4 tones, not the 2205/10 or the others. The others? Yes… the 5% undiscussed JCM 800s in the series refer to the 1992/1986 (Super) Bass series amps, which share no affiliation with the JMP circuits. [Back to the relevance of the segue…]

And guess which else is lumped into that 5%? That would be the JCM 800 1959 SLP, AKA the “Super Lead [wait for it…] Plexi.” That’s right, the 800-badged 1959 circuit having even less commonality with the original “plexi-faced” 1959s is designated by Marshall itself as a Plexi. This now paints you into the corner into either conceding (thanks to Marshall’s abandonment of the nuances) that the 1959/1987 circuits are ”Plexis” (vs ”true Plexis” if you demand some dignified exit), OR you must die on the absolutely absurd hill that a Plexi is only the pre-metalface Marshall circuits and… fuck, the weird “800/pre-X“ series designated “Super Lead Plexis” by Marshall.
Shit show? You just want to stir things up, and seem to need a little help making a valid point here... Completely relevant and on point is my reference that the 1959 was made through the JCM800 series but is not a plexi simply by virtue of having a "similar" circuit. In your confusion and eagerness to make a "shit show", you wrongfully call these "JCM800 1959 SLP" to craft some pseudo point. Sorry, these are not and never have had SLP in any part of the amp's title, model, or labeling on or in the amplifier. Nice try though...
 

V-man

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Shit show? You just want to stir things up, and seem to need a little help making a valid point here... Completely relevant and on point is my reference that the 1959 was made through the JCM800 series but is not a plexi simply by virtue of having a "similar" circuit. In your confusion and eagerness to make a "shit show", you wrongfully call these "JCM800 1959 SLP" to craft some pseudo point. Sorry, these are not and never have had SLP in any part of the amp's title, model, or labeling on or in the amplifier. Nice try though...

As a fellow die-hard prescriptivist, allow me to provide you with reach-around you‘ll insist you don’t need but can use more than you think, because you my friend, are fucked now. :kiss:

For starters, the JCM 800 NMV Lead amp. I recalled the amp’s designation as a SLP amp. You insist otherwise. Without bothering to delve deeper to verify my assertion, I will gladly offer this: “If you insist that I am wrong in my recollection of the JCM’s ‘SLP’ designation, I will freely concede my mistake and say that I was wrong in declaring that.” (<- take close notes on that because believe me, we’ll be back here in a moment).

My biggest gripe are the Gibson V designations. The ‘67 Reissue series (’89-15’) offers an incorrect body, neck profile, and Vs never had a stoptail until 1971. Worse still is this fucking new “70s V,” which is literally a ’67 RI with bound board and painted HS face. It bears no resemblance with the Vs from the 1970s whatsoever and Gibson fucking knows it because they have been releasing exact-spec VOS Vs (1967 and 1970s) for years through the custom shop. I get the frustration, and I am quick to point out my discontent over these abominations, particularly when asked… and sometimes offered sans solicitation. Thus, I do sympathize with your sentiments at some point.

The difference between you and me however, is that while I will take issue with all such derogations as to why these are not actual or “true” spec guitars (an olive branch I offered you earlier, that you brushed aside) I don’t go off on the world that they are wrong when they correctly refer to that gear, inaptly-named by Gibson. You however insist on blathering on how everybody is wrong for their incorrect classification and take it out on them rather than take it up with Marshall. So, hats off to you for getting out of “check“ with the JCM shit only to checkmate your stubborn ass next move. Question, bud: did Marshall offer a post-JMP era 1959 the “SLP“ designation with a metal face and circuit that deviated from the 1960s circuit? Answer: you know good and well they fucking did, turning your pot-kettle “pseudo” argument right back in your face. Marshall has officially called what you refused to acknowledge as “plexi” Thus, you are wrong: Period.

Now for the shit show… that was a little levity as I tried to handle the situation lightly. But you insist on the arrogant route. What‘ the thread called again, “hey guys, can some arrogant ass give me his 16 cents on what ‘plexis’ really are?” I believe it was a tone question you chose to derail with your unsolicited bullshit making you, yes, YOU the shitshow here. Worse still, your unsolicited bullshit you beligerantly advance at EVERY turn Is wrong (and unless you can rebut my post-JMP “SLP” point, you can just take your shitshow INCORRECT nonsense to another thread and darken that one instead). So, from one prescriptivist to another (who regardless is wrong): Go get the fuck off the lawn!
 


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