My TSL 100 mods

iamme

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I have been trying to figure out how to fix the flubbiness in this amp since I got it years ago. I have tried tube rolling, then came the amps transformers (added a choke also) since the power transformer blew its 5 volt rail. so mod 1 was Classic tone PT, OT and choke.
STILL Flubby sounding. Let me state that this amp is HEAVEN when the power is JUST right (but I live in NYS where the power fluctuates from 110v-124v and at 50-55 hz is NOT stable, when the power is right, HEAVEN, when it is not (so 9 times out of 10) it is flubby garbage...so I went down the rabbit hole, mostly trying mods recommended on here, Joey mods, Europa mods, (there is another fella on here I do not know his name but his mods were cutting parts out..(I looked him up again and he was Vesperado).yes I even tried that)...nothing, no good, nada, the further down the rabbit hole I went the worse it got, SO I went my own way with the help of observations I had made of the effects of all the other mods I tried, and I came up with something REMARKABLY simple.
First the mods about cutting the transistors TR2 and TR3, are a MUST (channel switching becomes seamless and the high treble that is added to the lead channel is gone (so now you have a clean, crunch and TRUE lead sound instead of clean,. crunch and a MODIFIED HIGH TREBLE LEAD, that really no one much likes, it is the single biggest compaint I have noticed).
Now comes the hard part....(really not but THIS is where the magic happened for me)...there are two resistors in the crunch and lead boards that are supposed to be 'FAT' enhancers, specificaly lead board R6 switch from 470k resistor to 120k resistor, and the crunch board R3 switch from the 470k to 120k resistor (I should not post this, it could be worth something, but frankly I have ALWAYS felt that knowledge should be SHARED). What does this do, if you have ever thought that the bass controls were too powerful, this gives you useable bass through the whole pot and you can even use bass boost and mid cuts without it sounding like garbage....that it, thats all there is too it.
Cut tr2 , tr3, replace lead R6 with a 120k and replace crunch r3 with the same 120 k, to me this made the most difference and gave me the best tone in every situation (it did not kill the inherent tone of the amp, it made the bass and mid pots more useable and while I CAN occasionally hear that same flubbiness creap in (I am sure that is power related) I can actually EQ it out with no external eq'ing necessary!!.

You should know that any mods I did were reversed and the amp was put back original prior to this final modification attempt, so what I listed is complete...also a special shout out to Ricky Lee for his tips about not reinventing the wheel and the only other mod that I left because it helped SLIGHTLY with the flub was mainbaord c12...I did not list it because I feel that my mods would work without it but if you try what I did and no joy then look up Ricky Lee and ask him what to make the c12 mainboard cap, but I DID leave it modified, so my statement that all was returnsd to original was slightly incorrect as the Transformers stayed as well but they were to fix an actual blown transformer, and this was NOT a me issue but a Marshall made a bad transformer issue)) (they really did not make a difference much, they fixed an issue, but a choke DOES cut down on SAG and Hiss if you cannot get rid of that through tube rolling) along with the c12 mod, but like I said to the overall problem I feel the FAT resistors made MORE significant difference and made this amp what it is now.


Hope this all made sense, best wishes.


(I am not a tech, just a self taught hobbyist but I have had a background, I leanred SOME minor circuit repair in the Navy and while I was a construction worker I spent some of my off years soldering circuit boards together in a factory and also stained glass in another factory, so novice yet not level of ability)
 

Dogs of Doom

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:welcome:to the forum...

@Vesperado has done a few threads on this...


:cheers:
 

iamme

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I did say I tried his mods, they did not work at all for me , although to give credit where it is due, it BECAUSE of one of HIS mods that I came up with this method. He suggested clipping those parts completely out of circuit, it was this removal that made me think the Reistor should just be revalued and not removed.

Thanks for the interest !!
 

Vesperado

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Which "mod" of mine did you "try"? There are more than two resistor values changed inside my amp.

My mod involves several changes on every board in that amp, and with good reasons.

Perhaps you can elaborate as to what exactly you did? I very much doubt you have even tried the corrections and improvements which I put forth on this forum. Changing one or two values are not going to improve the TSL, no matter how much one might convince himself of it...it requires much work.
 

iamme

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As I said I went WAYYY down the rabbit hole, I tried this which you listed as version2

Here are my specs (because every TSL owner needs to know):

TSL-100 Gain Voicing Mods

-Treble Cap “Main C24” clipped

-Pre-Treble Bleed “Lead C9” clipped

-Pre-Treble Bleed “Crunch C5” clipped

-Pre-Mid “Lead C7” 2.2n > 470p

-Pre-Mid “Lead R7” 47k > 120k

-Pre-Mid “Clean C5” 2n2 > 510p

-Pre-Fat “Lead R6” 470k clipped

-Pre-Fat “Crunch R3” 470k clipped

-Pre-Lowpass Filter “Lead C8” 470p > 100p

-Pre-Lowpass Filter “Crunch VR1-wiper to Ground” 220p

-Global Gain mod “Main R31” 1k > 820R

And as I said it completely destroyed the tone of my amp...then the words of Ricky Lee hit me about not re-inventing the wheel and that the amp was good as is with minor tweeks, so I undid your mods and started to explore what was done and like I said, came up with this, it only changes two values, makes the amp WORK.
I also have Gain that was previously NOT available on any channel (the lead gain beacomes so much more usanble and frankly over the top that it is somehting different)
I am not trying to insult you, I am saying what you had done up to Version 2 Made my amp sound terrible, just the facts And what you did to version 3, WHY? WHY would you just not get another amp What you have listed on version3 does not even make sense as it is JUST a list of changes you made and nothing about how you did them, unless they are your explanation of version2...and thank you for insulting MY intelleigence by asserting I could not have done all you did....really, that means alot!!.


I want to be clear, I did not bring up your name to dog you or insult you, I brought it up as a form of recognition....I DID NOT like the revoiced amp, I did not like the Assymetrical clipping or the way you DROPPED the gain (yes, Despite the assertion someone made on your thread that switching from a 1K resistor on the mainboard to an 820 ohm would raise gain it DROPS it (lower value resistors mean lower gain...not hard...I am sure you know this as you did not make that comment)..my channels became weak and I did not like the clipping at all...
BUT...I DID NOT come up with what I did alone, YOU laid the foundation, I would term it standing on the shoulders of giants, because you had the guts to try and pave a way, I just did not like that way at all...again BUT what you did led me to ther realization that this one resistor held the key to what 'I' was looking for (an amp that I could at least dial out the flub and got rid of that nasty sizzle on the lead channel while maintaining what I loved about the TSL, Because as I said, I thought this amp, when it was on...WAS REALLY ON!! NOW IT IS REALLY ON EVERYTIME I WALK UP TO IT....LOL

AND before you criticise what I have done or said remeber this, at least ONE of us had the courtesy to try the others mod out before getting on here and sounding off!!!!!!!
(AND as you said, I very nuch doubt you have properly avaluated the change I made to this amp BEFORE COMING ON HERE AND CALLING ME STUPID)
 
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Vesperado

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I had a feeling you didn't "try" my "mod". Thank you for the confirmation.

Must have been an old thread you resurrected...at any rate, you cannot change a few resistors and expect the amp to arrive at perfection, if that's what you were expecting. Judging from your tone you may well have been...am I understanding that correctly?

Above you mentioned something about adjusting some pre-emph. values. Ok.

Some of the corrections bring the amp into 1959 spec, some thereabouts. I have published corrections and improvements that make the amp sound its best--provided you follow through with the effort. Every board needs correction. Without following through there can be no expectation that the amp will approach optimal performance, performance that was never designed into the amp originally.

Is that what this is all about? That more than a few values need correction?

If you had problems, concerns, doubts, you could have contacted me. I published all of my work free of charge, for those who take the time and effort to go through the pains that I have. I am not being paid to do that. I did it for the benefit of, again, those who take the time and effort to get it done right.

As for Matt's work, his mods are very useful, and I can hear him restating what I have restated here, should you decide to provoke him. Neither of us are paid to do that. Whatever your aim is, your off target: attempting to discredit something that works perfectly fine not having completed the work nor advancing thereto. Nobody ties one shoe then attempts to run a marathon, neither can anyone change a few values and expect completion.

My official thread is still up for those who feel the desire to do something better with that amp. It doesn't bother me if no one does it, or doesn't carry out the work, but if someone is having trouble with the process, and as I have stated over there, they may contact me. I am happy to help them. But I don't presume further to help you, and whether or not you decide to move forward is your choice, you can do so on your own if you wish. There are other folks here on this forum who might be willing, but not I.
 

iamme

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I had a feeling you didn't "try" my "mod". Thank you for the confirmation.

Must have been an old thread you resurrected...at any rate, you cannot change a few resistors and expect the amp to arrive at perfection, if that's what you were expecting. Judging from your tone you may well have been...am I understanding that correctly?

Above you mentioned something about adjusting some pre-emph. values. Ok.

Some of the corrections bring the amp into 1959 spec, some thereabouts. I have published corrections and improvements that make the amp sound its best--provided you follow through with the effort. Every board needs correction. Without following through there can be no expectation that the amp will approach optimal performance, performance that was never designed into the amp originally.

Is that what this is all about? That more than a few values need correction?

If you had problems, concerns, doubts, you could have contacted me. I published all of my work free of charge, for those who take the time and effort to go through the pains that I have. I am not being paid to do that. I did it for the benefit of, again, those who take the time and effort to get it done right.

As for Matt's work, his mods are very useful, and I can hear him restating what I have restated here, should you decide to provoke him. Neither of us are paid to do that. Whatever your aim is, your off target: attempting to discredit something that works perfectly fine not having completed the work nor advancing thereto. Nobody ties one shoe then attempts to run a marathon, neither can anyone change a few values and expect completion.

My official thread is still up for those who feel the desire to do something better with that amp. It doesn't bother me if no one does it, or doesn't carry out the work, but if someone is having trouble with the process, and as I have stated over there, they may contact me. I am happy to help them. But I don't presume further to help you, and whether or not you decide to move forward is your choice, you can do so on your own if you wish. There are other folks here on this forum who might be willing, but not I.
I am not giooing to debate this with you, you are a fool and quite frankly you are behaving like a JERK. YOU posted what I wrorte EXACTLY as your versiopn 2 mod (you want to accuse me of writing that, I just cut and pasted YOUR WORDS EXACTLY>>>>you are stupid AND DO NOT REALIZE IT....wow

yOU THINK WHAT YOU DID IS SPECIAL, , I did what you wrote in this forum (I did see you revised it and came up with version 3 and all I can say is, you rebuilt an amp that did not need it, good for you if you like that, I DO NOT...you write something and then criticise people for doing it, you are right, anyone that takes you advice about how to modity this or any amp IS A DAMN FOOL

I posated this for peoplle that want those tone controls and the gain controls to WORK better,
LETE ME SAY IT AGAIN., THIS POST IS FOR PEOPLE THAT JUST WANT TO FIX SLIGHTLY THE TSL'S INHERENT SOUND, NOT FOR PEOPLE LIKE YOU THAT OBVIOUSLY HATE THE SOUND OF THER AMP
ALSO, TWO RESISTORS EASILY REVERSED IF YOU HATE WHAT IT DOES, IT TOOK DAYS TO UNDO THE GARBAGE YOU SUGGESTED I DO TO MY AMP.

YOU didnt do that, you just brought the gain down to what you consider the 'optimal' crunch and lead gain and then REVOICED IT< AND THAT SOUNDED TO ME LIKE ASS..you like assymetric clipping and lower gain, what I did changed two idiot proof resistors and IT MADE THIS AMP AMAZING, you would not know, you CANNOT even try it , as you have absolutely DESTROYED YOUR AMP and to fix mine takes about 15 minutes, and DID MAKE ALL THE DIFFERENCE>>>why would I CARE what you did...seriously!!!! Two resistors (You even revoiced the clean which I personally NEVER had any problem with, YOU must have HATED this amp when it sounded right, because what you did.NOT TSL).

now please leave me alone bvecause i do not WANT FIGHTING, i POSTED THIS QUICK EASY MOD SO PEOPLE WOULD BE ABLE TO DISCOVER WHAT I DID, DONT REINVENT THE WHEEL,(you for some reason seem to need to be held inn awe and have the last say about mods or how to approach it, are you that insecure that the first thing you thought to do was ATTACK me and say I cannot possibly know what I am doing becauise I disagree with you???
)
guild the lilly!!!!!
 

iamme

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IN FACT I will go one step further, I CHALLENGE anyone ANYONE, to take a dead stock TSL100 (mainboard rev 20 for those concerned), do what I suggested, and THEN TELL ME YOU WANT TO DO THE VESPERADO MOD Version 1, 2, or blooming 3

IT WILL NOT HAPPEN...

I am that confident and happy with the way my amp sounds and the change this gave it. (IF you like the tone of a jose modded Marshall or Friedman or that type, it is there, abven a heavier towards Soldano tone..this is not my doing, the change just unlocked what Marshall intended to be there

DONT CALL ME STUPID VESPERADO (you keep asserting I cannot have done your mods right and anyone that changes everything you did in your version3 is asking for trouble(and who posts 3 versions of mods, take the obsolete ones down for idiots sake, what is wrong with you , you want to blame me for not finding your version 3 and doing it...sorry if I had seen it I never would have done that, for many reasons not the least of which are I like the tone of a tsl when it is right)
 

iamme

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I hope someone see's this post and gains some insight into how to make their TSL100 better. I just took mine to the local guitar shop (the guy that sold me my first Marshall, a JCM900 DR back in around 2004). I let the manager play my TSL and he said about what I thought, that the mod made the TSL open and it sounds like what Marshall had intended for this circuit. The gain and the bass and mid stacks are so much more responsive (useable through the whole turn of the dial, even with deep enganged and the scoop switch sounds amazing now). IT EVEN helped the CLEAN sound better (and I really did not have much problem with the clean as it was).
THIS IS WHAT a marshal should sound like...This is what the shop manager said!!
All egos aside this mod was intended to help my amp with power issues and it gave me the amp Marshall had intended.
Again ...who can argue with the changes I suggest, even if you do one of the more intense mods this one is easy to implement and shows up in part in the other schemes (in part! no one adresses the fat circuit this way, and that is THE basis of the mod), and frankly the basis of what I believe is wrong with the amp as designed.

THESE ARE MY TONE MODS
Cut Main boardTR2
Cut Main board TR3
Change Lead board R6 from 470k to 120k ohm
Change Crunch board R3 from 470k to 120k ohm



There are other mods I would do for stability and longevity of the amp (I put in a 4H choke and did the ground wire across all outputs..made sure the c46 was 1kv., but these are covered elswwhere and good for the longevity of the amp but not necessary for tone modification). My modification is only really concerning the tone stacks and the way they DO NOT work as intended.
I hope someone finds this and gets the same joy it brought me ( thought about advertising the amp and letting people pay me for it, I am sure it is probably the basis of one or more mods out there (Senes, VooDoo...in fact I would be willing to bet a lot with as powerful as this one change is that I am not the only one to implent it).
Good luck and post here if you try it and like it (and screw you if you don't....LOL), no really, if it causes problems or issues or it does not work let me know that as well!!!
 


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