I have a 1984 Marshall 2210 jcm800. Works perfectly fine with the guitar is plugged in direct or if my effects pedals use batteries. But as soon as I plug in a pedal that uses a power supply, I get this horrible buzzing from the amp. Is this a ground issue? Some of my pedals use power supplies only. Any help is much appreciated Thanks in advance
Marshall 2210 buzzing issue help please.
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Oh, this can be a nice can of worms to explore! Here's a few things I've found since we don't know your specific setup. I got into rewiring pedalboards for a few friends. Noise (hum, buzz, hiss...or whatever) is my #1 pet peeve with power supplies, amps or guitars. I'm just going to list a few and see if any trigger a thought of concern for you.
Power supplies: I always go for isolated supplies and ones that can supply ample current. The ones I've found that do really well for me are the Strymon series and Friedman's. I've had mixed issues with Voodoo and I'll explain later.
Common power points: I prefer to use one outlet to feed a power strip and all goes into that. (Amp, pedalboard, etc.) Outlets on opposite or adjacent walls might be fed from different legs of ac power and present out of phase power and excessive distances to a common grounding scheme, motors on an ac leg (fridge, heaters, etc.) that can result in ground loops.
Premium cables!!!: I make all my own cables. None of this piercing a core stuff. I typically use Square 400 or 500 plugs or Amphenol and Mogami W2319 cable. That's an inexpensive, but quality solution. The last thing I'll ever do is to use a crap cable between a $2k+ guitar and a $2K+ amp. It makes a huge difference.
Also, maximize your jack contact: Invest in a can of DeOxit D100 spray. Spray a 1/4" plug and insert and twist a few times on every pedal jack. It won't hurt.
Particular issues I've seen? The worst was troubleshooting a Voodoo ISO5 supply issue. It was causing a very slight audible buzz that drove me crazy with a couple pedals. One day I resolved to find that bugger. Well, I started unplugging each pedal and identifying culprits. Two pedals were consistent culprits....a wah and a direct box. No noise when both removed!! Why? What i discovered was that the switching supply in the ISO5 was injecting noise into the wah or direct box when either were brought near the supply or hovering close above it while the ISO5 was mounted underneath a pedal train board. Moving the pedals while all were live verified that. I had no issues repeating the same circumstance with a Strymon or Friedman supply.
So, what was the root of the issue? The switching power supply uses a high frequency switching circuit to produce more power "when needed". Some are built better than others. However, old school supplies are more stable (not as "efficient"), cost more regarding components, and save "space"...but that's not really an issue with pedalboard supplies (more so needed with computer power supplies).
As such, the oscillators and coils (transformer) in a switching supply was slightly coupling with the matching transformers in a true -isolation DI -and- the inductor coil used in a typical wah. I bought a better DI (Radial) and got rid of the wah.
Lastly, the loop itself. Clean the jacks with the DeOxit. What is more difficult is who deformation or oxidation of the actual jack has occurred and you need to pull the chassis. Can also be a compromised solder joint on the loop jack(s)...can be your amp/pedalboard location in the room, and can be oxidation on the jacks. DeOxit won't typically reach the jack internal switches and....DO NOT...spray DeOxit into an amp jack! The D100 is thick and can actually create a quasi short and make things much worse.
You can troubleshoot the loop jacks being the issue by taking one trustworthy pedal...use battery power only and plug into the two different loops. If the problem still exists in only one...suspect the amp. (Assuming you're using the same loop cables in both cases.)
Good luck resolving the noise...just takes some effort. I have replaced loop jacks in a 2210 in the past. Take it to a tech if not experienced with amp troubleshooting.
Power supplies: I always go for isolated supplies and ones that can supply ample current. The ones I've found that do really well for me are the Strymon series and Friedman's. I've had mixed issues with Voodoo and I'll explain later.
Common power points: I prefer to use one outlet to feed a power strip and all goes into that. (Amp, pedalboard, etc.) Outlets on opposite or adjacent walls might be fed from different legs of ac power and present out of phase power and excessive distances to a common grounding scheme, motors on an ac leg (fridge, heaters, etc.) that can result in ground loops.
Premium cables!!!: I make all my own cables. None of this piercing a core stuff. I typically use Square 400 or 500 plugs or Amphenol and Mogami W2319 cable. That's an inexpensive, but quality solution. The last thing I'll ever do is to use a crap cable between a $2k+ guitar and a $2K+ amp. It makes a huge difference.
Also, maximize your jack contact: Invest in a can of DeOxit D100 spray. Spray a 1/4" plug and insert and twist a few times on every pedal jack. It won't hurt.
Particular issues I've seen? The worst was troubleshooting a Voodoo ISO5 supply issue. It was causing a very slight audible buzz that drove me crazy with a couple pedals. One day I resolved to find that bugger. Well, I started unplugging each pedal and identifying culprits. Two pedals were consistent culprits....a wah and a direct box. No noise when both removed!! Why? What i discovered was that the switching supply in the ISO5 was injecting noise into the wah or direct box when either were brought near the supply or hovering close above it while the ISO5 was mounted underneath a pedal train board. Moving the pedals while all were live verified that. I had no issues repeating the same circumstance with a Strymon or Friedman supply.
So, what was the root of the issue? The switching power supply uses a high frequency switching circuit to produce more power "when needed". Some are built better than others. However, old school supplies are more stable (not as "efficient"), cost more regarding components, and save "space"...but that's not really an issue with pedalboard supplies (more so needed with computer power supplies).
As such, the oscillators and coils (transformer) in a switching supply was slightly coupling with the matching transformers in a true -isolation DI -and- the inductor coil used in a typical wah. I bought a better DI (Radial) and got rid of the wah.
Lastly, the loop itself. Clean the jacks with the DeOxit. What is more difficult is who deformation or oxidation of the actual jack has occurred and you need to pull the chassis. Can also be a compromised solder joint on the loop jack(s)...can be your amp/pedalboard location in the room, and can be oxidation on the jacks. DeOxit won't typically reach the jack internal switches and....DO NOT...spray DeOxit into an amp jack! The D100 is thick and can actually create a quasi short and make things much worse.
You can troubleshoot the loop jacks being the issue by taking one trustworthy pedal...use battery power only and plug into the two different loops. If the problem still exists in only one...suspect the amp. (Assuming you're using the same loop cables in both cases.)
Good luck resolving the noise...just takes some effort. I have replaced loop jacks in a 2210 in the past. Take it to a tech if not experienced with amp troubleshooting.
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Have you tested different power supply adapters? I've had terrible noise when using some cheap adapters. Noise disappeared with different adapter. Boss PSA seems to work fine, and good quality power block (multi-outlet).
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Tatzmann
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@myersbw
sorry for derailing the thread.
I have a '89 2205 that i made a couple small
changes to get it sounding better. It's ok now
but the buzzing mids are still there a bit and i want to put the w005 on a pot/switch as you suggested in an old thread...i was just wondering if there is any preampdistortion left
when the diodes are out of the circuit?
(I still have the 470k anode resistor on v1b plus the 10k/diode bypass.)
thx
sorry for derailing the thread.
I have a '89 2205 that i made a couple small
changes to get it sounding better. It's ok now
but the buzzing mids are still there a bit and i want to put the w005 on a pot/switch as you suggested in an old thread...i was just wondering if there is any preampdistortion left
when the diodes are out of the circuit?
(I still have the 470k anode resistor on v1b plus the 10k/diode bypass.)
thx
I'll pm you to get off this thread.
Looks like I can't pm you? This is what I was trying to relay outside the thread (sorry OP)
Hey Tatzmann, I think what I'd tend to try first is to clip or desolder one leg of D1 and tack solder another 470K resistor across R7 to reduce V1B's gain a bit. See if that tames that buzz. If not much, clip the ground or + leg of W005...some hate the result, some are fine with it.
To really convert that circuit it takes a LOT of underboard work and I don't find it worth it. Now, you might actually like putting W005 on a switch and switch in a pair of LED's instead (similar to a Jubilee). As for amount of gain? The real question will be...how much quality gain (clipping)? Yet to be explored based on your desire.
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mickeydg5
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First make sure the loop jack contacts and the interconnect cables used are cleaned well with good electronics lubricating contact cleaner.
I'm slipping! Forgetting (assuming?) they know point #1! Geez, see what a year into retirement does to you??? Hope all is well your way!
mickeydg5
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I was gong to say "Like myersbw mentioned." but forgot to add that in the post.I'm slipping! Forgetting (assuming?) they know point #1! Geez, see what a year into retirement does to you??? Hope all is well your way!
I was gong to say "Like myersbw mentioned." but forgot to add that in the post.
I'm sitting here at midnight...just finished a tumbler of ice, water and Jameson and ALMOST laughing to the point of crying after realizing that...geez...you just proved to be as old...or older...than I am!!!
mickeydg5
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What? We are still young. I am just younger than you.I'm sitting here at midnight...just finished a tumbler of ice, water and Jameson and ALMOST laughing to the point of crying after realizing that...geez...you just proved to be as old...or older...than I am!!!
By the way I am drinking New Belgium Honey Orange Tripel.
What? We are still young. I am just younger than you.
By the way I am drinking New Belgium Honey Orange Triple.
I'm not sure I believe that. Or, if you're saying that JUST to appear younger in print! :O I will say that it sounds like a brew my 28 year old son would love! (OP...MUCH apologies for the thread hijack...we hope we're injecting a little humor into you young folk!
Truth told? I get to collect Medicare next year!
mickeydg5
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Nah, Honey Triple Orange taste like a Belgium white but is 10%. It is one of my two go-to brews. The other is Dirty Bastard, 8.5%. I can get both from the local grocery stores.I'm not sure I believe that. Or, if you're saying that JUST to appear younger in print! :O I will say that it sounds like a brew my 28 year old son would love! (OP...MUCH apologies for the thread hijack...we hope we're injecting a little humor into you young folk!
I cannot collect medicare for almost a decade.
Cool! i might give that a go. And, dang!!! I do have about 9 years on you! PM me...being a "midwesterner", too, I may find the time to trek your way and you can buy the first round for this elder!
mickeydg5
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I am three stones from the Smokies, not midwest.Cool! i might give that a go. And, dang!!! I do have about 9 years on you! PM me...being a "midwesterner", too, I may find the time to trek your way and you can buy the first round for this elder!
