Likely the end of Dean guitars

[ricksdisconnected]

Pretty sure you have to go Artis at the least or maybe even Private Stock for that these days.

All the necks are CnC digital recreations- for them to stop a machine for ONE neck, costs them big time.

fuck that private stock price. no guitar that was just freshly made is worth that asking price.
beautiful guitars indeed but HELL NO.
so in your opinion jeff, what yrs are the "better" yrs for PRS?

 

[jeffb]

well he does have budget models and highline models yes?

Yes, but I'm not sure what that has to do with the Core line of guitars and the fanbase that I'm talking about.

If you can no longer get all the things that drew you to the product in the first place, then you as a consumer you certainly have cause to be upset. How one reacts to that is a different scenario, but the changes over the past 10-12 years have driven a big chunk of old PRS customers away. TRhis would be like Gibson making so many changes to their Historic line, that diehards stopped uying those, and moved on.

 

[ricksdisconnected]

Yes, but I'm not sure what that has to do with the Core line of guitars and the fanbase that I'm talking about.

If you can no longer get all the things that drew you to the product in the first place, then you as a consumer you certainly have cause to be upset. How one reacts to that is a different scenario, but the changes over the past 10-12 years have driven a big chunk of old PRS customers away. TRhis would be like Gibson making so many changes to their Historic line, that diehards stopped uying those, and moved on.

figured the old and more desired necks would have been found on the highline guitars.

 

[jeffb]

fuck that private stock price. no guitar that was just freshly made is worth that asking price.
beautiful guitars indeed but HELL NO.
so in your opinion jeff, what yrs are the "better" yrs for PRS?

The original "production" models of the mid to late 80s. They were sourcing better woods and spending more time on each guitar. I've never handled anything like my original one.

Of course he was selling far fewer guitars then- once they got popular the scale of his business rose dramatically and thus they had to change things.

Since then, I've had... ..7...8? other core models and at this point I think the only real improvement he's made over the years sonically is in the pickups. A few of those later guitars have been real stinkers (a SC250, original Starla, a Custom 24), one was exceptional (20th Anni McCarty). But 90s, 2Ks, today, they are all similar as far as build quality- but they are not like those early instruments.

It's like the difference between a Hamer USA and Gibson USA- a tangible "feel" thing in every area of how they are built.

 

[jeffb]

figured the old and more desired necks would have been found on the highline guitars.

Only if you pay the big bucks or are Mark Tremonti/Carlos Santana. Otherwise you get what Paul feels is the best at whatever point in time.

 

[ricksdisconnected]

Only if you pay the big bucks or are Mark Tremonti/Carlos Santana. Otherwise you get what Paul feels is the best at whatever point in time.

so what is the differences? C shape? D shape? or............

 

[jeffb]

so what is the differences? C shape? D shape? or............

Well, they used to have a standard neck with a narrower nut (that was the early production neck shape) then they introduced the Wide Thin (thin D) and Wide Fat (medium D- don't let the name fool ya). But they were like Gibson- sometimes they would be a little more C or a little more D, a little thicker/thinner, whatever.

Around 10-12 years ago he brought out the "pattern" neck series which he says are very similar to the very early custom work necks- ie.. when he was building one offs for Santana, Frampton, Howard Leese, etc. Some fans say it was done for consistency, some say to reduce production time- i.e. cheaper- I'm guessing both are true. There was quite a bit of negative feedback about the "pattern" necks. So with the 594 he brought out the Pattern Vintage- which is a bit more rounded vs. the Soft V to C transition of the Pattern neck. But neither are as substantial as his wide fat or are anything similar to that of the old "standard" neck, which was on Customs for 25 years and for many is *THE* PRS neck shape (myself included).

At any rate, the whole point is- PRS guitars have changed A LOT over the years, though they have always been consistently well built. Some folks hate the changes, some like them.

 

[Leonard Neemoil]

explain whats changed.

Necks, bridges,trem construction,, mostly CNC/less hand work, finish, wood classifications(10 top, artist, etc) radical change in pickup design and usage..

There is more..

Yup, I hate the new ones.

Here are some other things that changed that I despise.

Ugly square cornered 2 piece bridges on the hard tails instead of the one piece that they used to have. You know, the one piece that was supposed to sound better than a 2 piece according to Paul. Wonder what changed that makes the 2 piece better all of a sudden.

Certain pickups that can't be replaced unless you route the cavities bigger.

The CE is just rubbish now whereas the old ones were identical to the customs aside from a maple neck that's bolted on rather than glued in mahogany. Now the carve is weak and the knobs and control plates aren't recessed anymore.

Blade pickup selector rather than the rotory switch, and the blade selector is in a dumb spot imo.

Those ugly lame sort of oval shaped pickup rings.

S2 guitars that cost over a grand have BS white plastic inlays while sub $1000 SE guitars have some type of nice looking inlays. Probably fake but they look like abalone, much better than the more expensive S2.

Not sure if it's just the pictures or not but it looks like a lot of the plastics (pickup rings etc) are white rather than creme and it just looks lame AF.

I preferred the old winged tuners because they were easier and faster to string than the new ones. Though the new ones have a better gear ratio so I can't really complain too much.

Then there's all the stuff jeffb mentioned.

There could be more that I can't remember right now, IDK.

Oh, and Paul seems even more full of himself than he used to...as hard to believe as that is.

Quality hasn't slipped anyway.

 

[mark123]

I never really got on with PRS. They play amazing but, except for the 513, sounds really awful. I just do not like their humbucker pickups. They sound better when split.

Are Dean Cadillacs going to still be available? I always liked them.

 

[TheLoudness!!]

Legally speaking, a company HAS to protect its intellectual property against infringers or it will LOSE those legal protections of said intellectual property.

Defend it or lose the right to defend it. That IS the law.

Gibson HAS to defend their rights to their trademarks or they will lose the right to their exclusive use.

So does every other company.

Doesn't matter if you're Gibson's biggest fanboy or you're Glenn Fricker, that's still the truth.

This x1000! Preach it!!

I use to watch quite a bit of Glen a couple of years back but later on his videos started to lose interest with me.

I remember one where he was complaining about an SG they were recording with wouldn't stay in tune. The particular one they were talking about was made in the 1960's. It's completely ignorant to complain about a guitar (of any BRAND) that's went through 50 plus years of God knows what or has been poorly maintained. That whole rant was just cringe...

I bought Marshall amps that were 20 years old that had developed issues . I did not write the brand off or go off on a tangent saying they are all sh**...

You wouldn't take a car to the scrapyard because of a flat tire.

 

[TheLoudness!!]

Dean had always been in a strange place to me.

The lower end ones I played weren't anything special and usually had some problems. But then again, at a certain price point you must adjust your expectations somewhat or learn how to work on your own guitars. The ML X I owned was awful...but then again ..price and expectations.


Some of the Korean ones can be gems. You gotta play them like any other guitar. The two best Dean's I owned were a Korean (79) ML reissue in tobacco burst. The other was a V. It was a European select series that made in Czech Republic. Absolutely flawless guitar that I'd like to have another of. They haven't made them in 20 years and they are hard to come by.

I'd love to try one of the USA versions of anything they got but they start around $3k. They aren't much cheaper on the used market either.

I really wished Dean had not whored out Dimebags name so bad since his death. The reality is that he was killed in 2004 and lots of younger players have no idea who he is. I had friends who met him and states he was a great dude.

With all that said, I'd still like to try out a Dean Cadillac. Just have to try/find the right one. Especially if it's a European select!!

 

[Far Rider]

Sure glad I got my Michael Schenker if that's true.

 

[Leonard Neemoil]

I never really got on with PRS. They play amazing but, except for the 513, sounds really awful. I just do not like their humbucker pickups. They sound better when split.

Aside from their pickups, they have their own unique sound that will remain no matter what brand are in it. Some like it, some don't.

 

[mark123]

Aside from their pickups, they have their own unique sound that will remain no matter what brand are in it. Some like it, some don't.

yeah. It's like hooking up a wah and kicking it back to the heel.

 

[Matthews Guitars]

I have always liked the classic PRS double cutaway shape and the workmanship is reliably excellent. I even like the bird inlays, butthey have other inlay patterns I like better.

I have tried 24 and 22 fret guitars and I just like 22s better. I am not the kind of player that really can exploit those last two frets and I feel that a 24 fret neck moves the neck pickup away from its tonally ideal position.

Never much cared for PRS pickups, and some of their hardware choices are a bit wonky. I too do not care for squared off stop bar tailpieces and their squared off pickup bobbins exist only to be different. And then there's their mostly failed experiments with narrowfield, midfield, and widefield humbuckers. Seems like a lot of wheel reinventing going on. Which didn't really catch on, and if you have one of those guitars, you're stuck with those pickups. Very limiting.

So, I'm fortunate to be able to build my own guitars and have the experience to do it well. So the PRS-ish guitar in my avatar is, for me at least, my dream PRS. With a single exception there's nothing about it that wouldn't do again. And that is that I wasted 200+ dollars on a set of PRS Phase III locking tuners. They're really pretty mediocre. Knob tension drifts on them. Being open back, they can get dirt in the mechanism. But they were visually right for what I was after, which was to do my own reinterpretation of a specific PRS Private Collection Guitar that I didn't have 18 grand to spend on.

I do like the fixed intonation bridge, which does give me perfect intonation using only the forward-backward adjustment on the bridge posts. And those are TonePros locking posts.

As for pickups, I have Duncans in it. JB in the bridge, Jazz in the neck. I have two added 3 position toggle switches that give me in total 15 distinct switch selectable tones without turning a knob.

The neck is as pretty a piece of Cocobolo as you ever set eyes on, with no sapwood in it. (I hate sapwood...) The fingerboard is African Blackwood. Body is lightweight African mahogany and the top is European curly maple with very tight figure.

 

[TheLoudness!!]

Been on the fence about PRS for years. I'm not particularly thrilled with the pickups so far...

 

[jeffb]

Paul's pickups are polarizing for sure. I'll say this though- love or hate the "in room" sound- they cut through a mix, and record really well.

My original Custom had the "holy grail" original treble and bass pickups- before they moved on to the HFS and vintage bass. Those "holy grails" sounded like shit to me. But the whole sweet switch and rotary system was a nightmare and my tech advised me to leave it be and play my other guitars for a more "vintage" sound.

I think his pickups have improved greatly over the past 20ish years. The McCartys were a step in the right direction. The USA Starla pickups were an awesome fat Filtertron type tone. The 57/08s are excellent- maybe his best. I don't think the newer 85/15s or the LT variant are nearly as good as the 57/08s, but it's what his "artists" were asking for--- so Paul says.

I often found his exclusive to one guitar pickups sounded better in some of his other guitars. For example- my SC250 (essentially Tremonti pickups) were awful-well..the bridge was as buzzsaw, neck was OK. But a Dragon II Bridge and McCarty neck were fantastic in it. I never cared for the DIIs in any of the Custom 22 series. The original SC245/Mira pickups were pretty decent too. I've heard them in Les Pauls, and they fare much better there.

I really like the narrowfields- yes, you are stuck with them, but they sound great.

The squabbins have grown on me. They remind me of some (very) old BL and Schaller pickups from the late 70s/early 80s.

 

[El Gringo]

Like it or hate it, Gibson is one of the two pioneers of the instrument (electric guitar) and has earned the right to protect it's name/image/trademark. I paid over Gibson money for a Kauer Banshee which is heavily influenced by the Gibson Firebird. I believe Kauer was approached by Gibson at one point in time and then altered their design to satisfy the attorneys. Play fair, build your own brand and the guitars will sell.

Why should Gibson get ripped off on there designs . Any corporate entity that does not protect there brand and products is not worth a rats A$%!

 

[El Gringo]

yes they say he was cool as hell. always giving to others.
his love for fireworks stands out to me as well.
do not dis the Dime.

I seen him once with Pantera before Dime passed and I was absolutely and utterly blown away by his amazing playing !

 

[AlvisX]

Did you guys see , we almost lost Dean himself ,as he and his wife were in attendance at the Highland Park 4th o' July Parade .................................fckn YIKES man !!!!!