Likely the end of Dean guitars

Maxbrothman

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It's all a ploy to get people to buy Epiphones. :p

1. Sue all companies for trademark infringement.
2. Lower the quality control of Gibsons.
3. Put out a 'play authentic' ad campaign to crush your flagship brand.
3. Mass produce Epiphones and sell them like candy.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
 

mark123

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explain your idea. ive played nuts that were actually cut correctly on Gibsons that had no issues.
it can be done and takes a bit more time to do but again "a bit more time".
I'll have to draw it.

Yeah, you can make a Gibson work and modify the nut and it'll be close to OK enough but they should just fix the issues. It would literally put them on top again.
 

V-man

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they stole the design from a old violin company but get pissed when others use the design.
interesting huh?
the break angle is the sad thing. they know it is a shit design but wont fix the problem.
thats another issue i have with Gibson. its been said they wont fix the design because the
traditionalist will will not be happy about it. yet epiphone doesnt have these breaking headstock issues
because their angle is different by a few degrees.
even still, Gibson has been on a good come back road and gaining ground. they had to fire a few people
to save themselves but its working.
sidebar: Other than the artificial instrument demand bubble to offset supply chain issues,I don’t see any evidence Gibson is on a “good comeback road” whatsoever unless you strictly refer to the business model of throwing those “brand lifestyle” venture projects overboard that caused Henry J’s ship to founder.

Given the Government wood seizure causing fretboard material inconsistency, chambered LPs, the <shudder> Robot/Firebird X fiasco, and the over-complexity/confusion of LP models, the 2000-2010 era still managed to churn out decent or better product. By “decent,” I mean complaints surely existed that shit left the shop that was not excusable along with good pieces, but you stood a fair chance of a good guitar (with perhaps an inexcusably-poorly cut nut).

Today with new ownership and a new mission to be a freaking guitar company instead of a headphone, bathrobe, “Marshall fridge” :cool:conglomerate, the first thing you would expect is better guitars, right? Nope shitbird in a leather jacket makes strangely veiled “play authentic” threats with cryptic references about taped-over headstocks, and a whirlwind of lawsuits that have us divided over the propriety of that strategy.

Controversy aside, that would all be well, good and strange were they improving the quality and/or price of the product in parallel, but NOPE. The shit that leaves the shop is even more absurd than the Henry J era. Murphy finishes sheeting off the body, Flagship limited sig series guitars arriving in worse condition as factory seconds (check out the Mustaine V debacleS), all on top of the same QC shit that Henry J‘s goods had… with more name/spec confusion and at a considerably higher price.
 

tallcoolone

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QC issues are not a worry when you play before you buy. Which is what you have always had to do with Gibsons. But in our internet marketplace world right now that doesn’t sit well with people, hence the strong emotional reactions on geek board forums.

I have 3 Les Pauls and a Firebird. Played all of them before I dropped the nickel and they are perfect. Honestly, I don’t care if every other Gibson in the world is a turd as long as mine are great. And they are.

I will never get the hate for a faceless corporation—why do you care if they put their name on a fridge or a bluetooth speaker? Obviously they aren’t manufacturing those instead of guitars—their marketing Dept pays a company in China a fee to put their logo on the crap. It is 1000% irrelevant to how your guitar is set up. But it makes so many so angry lol.

Dean obviously did not come up with these designs—they stole them. Not only should they have to pull the guitars, IMO they should pay damages as well. I hate thieves with a passion.
 

Leonard Neemoil

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the break angle is the sad thing. they know it is a shit design but wont fix the problem.
thats another issue i have with Gibson. its been said they wont fix the design because the
traditionalist will will not be happy about it. yet epiphone doesnt have these breaking headstock issues
because their angle is different by a few degrees.

Now see? That's the shit that really pisses me off!

You know it alls spouting nonsense!

Lol jk.

Seriously though, what pisses me off is that Gibson could make one model of LP with a better break angle while also offering the traditional models so everyone could be happy but they don't.

Same goes for PRS. I used to be a serious fanboy. But they've veered so far from the original that I won't ever buy a new one again unless they offer the old school options again.

There's absolutely no reason why they can't still offer 2 models that follow tradition while giving the sheep what they want.
 

V-man

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QC issues are not a worry when you play before you buy. Which is what you have always had to do with Gibsons. But in our internet marketplace world right now that doesn’t sit well with people, hence the strong emotional reactions on geek board forums.

I will never get the hate for a faceless corporation—why do you care if they put their name on a fridge or a bluetooth speaker? . It is 1000% irrelevant to how your guitar is set up.

Dean obviously did not come up with these designs—they stole them. Not only should they have to pull the guitars, IMO they should pay damages as well. I hate thieves with a passion.
1. This sentiment is utterly untenable and has gone the way of the dodo bird. If you are indiscriminately looking for a Gibson “humbucker guitar” then maybe you can make do with the CL ads and what is at the Guitar Center within a 50 mi radius. Might fly with a “beggars can’t be choosers” LP or SG (maybe a V) but you will never see a Firebird and many other models. Oh, that new Deluxe, the Murphy aged X, the Signature Y that just dropped? Tough titty. If you do not live in Chicago or NYC, the odds of that being ever tangible in your town are NIL. I have been catalog/online ordering since 1993 (by necessity) and by the 2000s the marketing model is such that this old hat Gibson BS is done for. It must be presentable sight unseen or hassle-free replaceable ala Sweetwater. By 2010 with the marketing model firmly in place, and technology like CAD, CNC and PLEK, there are ZERO excuses for shit from the shop.

2. The reason why I care about the Gibson toothpaste/tampon line, circa 2014 is because the company now takes on debt, management/marketing responsibilities, which takes away from the sole focus of the instrument marketing and manufacturing priorities. If you can lose 15% sales by tamping down QC and overworking staff by laying off a wing in the shop, BUT you can make twice that in headphone sales in so diverting resources/attention/priorities then it is a no-brainer for the business‘ bottom line. As for the customer of the instruments? Compromised if not fucked and Gibson’s experience from the past 5-10 years (resulting in bankruptcy) shows your irrelevance argument is wrong. The product not only suffered from lack of focus but the entire business went under.

3. We have established that Minds/opinions will not be changed regarding certain beliefs in this matter (and that is perfectly fine). Nevertheless your argument is completely inconsistent. You can have it that Gibson AND Fender have full and RETROACTIVE litigative rights to their established IP (against virtually all world/US jurisprudence) …OR you can have it the other way that while both had a right to protect their IP, both attempted it FAR too late and have been handed spankings from a number of US and EU courts for their bad-faith/stupidly-late litigative efforts.

You cannot have it both ways that Gibson has IP protection in perpetuity whereas Fender does not because they became disinterested. The facts do not bear that out at all. Gibson/Fender had absolute rights to protect their IP and they BOTH abandoned it. The current ownership/management is no more responsible for creating or deserving of benefiting from 1958 Gibson IP that was developed two owners ago, and constructively abandoned at least one owner ago. This is as inane and frivolous as the children of deceased artists suing other artists for the similarities of songs that the actual artists themselves (the parents/relatives) disagreed they were similar or were cool with it and friendly with the “thieves” whom are now being sued.
 

tallcoolone

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Wow—lots of fury over a company that sells guitars. As I said, I only care about my Gibsons—I could give a flying hoot about any of the others. I also don’t care if they are putting their logo on tampons—that doesn’t affect my Gibson guitars one bit. Don’t care who the CEO is or what he does with his time—that also doesn’t affect my Gibson guitars. When I buy another Gibson, it will be a guitar that I play first and compare with others. While I suppose I have some sympathy for folks who for some reason cannot find guitars to play first, in the end it doesn’t affect my Gibson guitars so I’ll get over it. It’s a guitar.
 

tallcoolone

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Oh and I bought my Firebird off NH Craigslist 4mos ago!
 

ricksdisconnected

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I'll have to draw it.

Yeah, you can make a Gibson work and modify the nut and it'll be close to OK enough but they should just fix the issues. It would literally put them on top again.
ever notice Epiphone doesnt have those issues?
 

ricksdisconnected

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Necks, bridges,trem construction,, mostly CNC/less hand work, finish, wood classifications(10 top, artist, etc) radical change in pickup design and usage..

There is more..
whats wrong with the necks? the current tremolo and locking tuners they use are damn nice.
as for CNC i dont get it. just makes production faster and more consistant.
one would be hard pressed to say if one is CNC or hand made these days. not a deal breaker
in any reason in my book. hell bro pickups are easy changed. no a biggie.
 

jeffb

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whats wrong with the necks? the current tremolo and locking tuners they use are damn nice.
as for CNC i dont get it. just makes production faster and more consistant.
one would be hard pressed to say if one is CNC or hand made these days. not a deal breaker
in any reason in my book. hell bro pickups are easy changed. no a biggie.
The neck shapes have changed. They have become pretty polarizing among the PRS hardcore. The new necks are nothing like the old necks. For longtime fans, that can be a dealbreaker.

Again, hardcore PRS fans like their PRS pickups. Paul's has gone to a few models fit all design theory, whereas previously he built specific pickups for each guitar.

modern trem is not built as well as originals and with cheaper materials. Core models like the CE are getting the import Trem.


All the things you see as no big deal ARE a big deal to many hardcore PRS fans.
 

ricksdisconnected

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The neck shapes have changed. They have become pretty polarizing among the PRS hardcore. The new necks are nothing like the old necks. For longtime fans, that can be a dealbreaker.

Again, hardcore PRS fans like their PRS pickups. Paul's has gone to a few models fit all design theory, whereas previously he built specific pickups for each guitar.

modern trem is not built as well as originals and with cheaper materials. Core models like the CE are getting the import Trem.


All the things you see as no big deal ARE a big deal to many hardcore PRS fans.
well he does have budget models and highline models yes?
 

ricksdisconnected

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Yup, PRS has no substantial necks in their line anymore that I’ve tried. I thought the old “wide/fat” carve was still a little undersized but now they don’t even do that.
i havent played a PRS in some yrs. now im curious. but doesnt PRS offer a custom build option?
 

jeffb

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Yup, PRS has no substantial necks in their line anymore that I’ve tried. I thought the old “wide/fat” carve was still a little undersized but now they don’t even do that.


Yeah- My last PRS was a 2014 second gen 245 SC- the one they made for 2 years right after the SC58, and right before the 594 came out. It had the (then) new Pattern neck carve. Its a very soft V to C transition and not terribly substantial- the old Wide Fat had big shoulders that were not really my thing either, but it was more "full" than the newer necks. The best neck IMO was the old "standard" carve, which was a nice full C from nut to the heel- not as big as a typical R9- more like a early 90s era LP Standard. That's the neck shape that came on the early PRS Customs in the mid to late 80s. I don't have any pics of my original PRS Custom , but I do have some of the 245-That 245 was a great guitar but I don't get along with V necks- they aggravate my injuries and arthritis- whether Dean, PRS or old Fenders.

20150721_150703.jpg
20150721_150845.jpg
 

jeffb

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i havent played a PRS in some yrs. now im curious. but doesnt PRS offer a custom build option?
Pretty sure you have to go Artis at the least or maybe even Private Stock for that these days.

All the necks are CnC digital recreations- for them to stop a machine for ONE neck, costs them big time.
 

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