I want an SG with P90s without getting an SG -UPDATE ON P4

[lespaul339]

Mean 90s are just not quite there , I wish they were , but they're not . They make an OK placeholder in the neck position , but that's about it . But the same can be said about Duncan Phat Cats , which is weird because Duncan makes my absolute favorite bridge p90 ....but the Phat Cats don't quite cut it

My experience so far, Gibson p94's are the killer humbucking sized p90 . I've tried a couple others ,but I know what Im gettin' with the Gibson ....although the cat's out the bag on 'em and you rarely find em for under 100 bucks anymore

What don't you like about the Mean 90's compared to a regular P90? I was actually considering putting those Mean 90's in my SG faded so I could have that P90 sound and do something a little different with that guitar.

 

[ricksdisconnected]

What don't you like about the Mean 90's compared to a regular P90? I was actually considering putting those Mean 90's in my SG faded so I could have that P90 sound and do something a little different with that guitar.

then be like Nike and just do it.

 

[AlvisX]

People always get into this "single coil" / humbucker debate when discussing p90s
Yes, p90s are a single coil , no they are NOTHING like a tele / strat pickup .There's a whole world of difference in construction , magnets ,layout ,shape of the field and wind.
P90s can have as much output as humbuckers ....and of course to my ears ,sound better . (There's a reason I have more p90 Les Pauls than Hums.....)

One thing to watch for when shopping for "other" branded p90 guitars is whether the pickups are "real" or not .Depending which Chinese Epiphones you try out , you might get some really decent wound alnico p90s with "the tone" ....OR you my get some cheap ceramic mag weird winding pickups under a p90 cover
I can vouch for the ones in the Wilshires & Coronets. The ones in the $100 Specials , can be a different story

I think PRS was using Duncan made p90s at some point in time

Obviously ,Gibson uses real p90s (although Im not a fan of those alnico slug p90s of 2014/15 in the bridge )

They also need to be setup / adjusted for optimum performance , so a guitar off the rack may or may not be set up ,ready to go........something to consider

For my money, there's nothing like a p90 rock machine

 

[AlvisX]

What don't you like about the Mean 90's compared to a regular P90? I was actually considering putting those Mean 90's in my SG faded so I could have that P90 sound and do something a little different with that guitar.

They're not that "mean" .
I have pickup standards ....what I expect a pickup to do when I put it in . Like I said before , the mean 90 just dont cut it in the bridge
Doesn't compare to a stock Gibson p90.
It's an OK neck pickup though .They're better with the covers off IMO

Gibson p94 s have gotten a little expensive compared to what they used to be , but the tone is there

 

[HFloyd]

🤣😂🤣

Title: looking for SG with P90s (no Gibson plz) - okay.

Thread: I hate weak as piss P90s and want PAFs. Oh, I also hate SGs.

😂🤣😂


I would otherwise suggest a LP Jr, or V, but here we are back to ”Fuck Gibson”.

Other than PAFs, maybe you need to figure out what you want from the guitar body/neck with your hands rather than your eyes, now that you have since picked them up and played them.

Actually:

Thread: "Wow, I really do hate SGs and maybe P90s aren't what I was looking for"

So the title is at least 50% accurate! ...Maybe 75%

Also, I always go with what my hands say rather than my eyes. If I went with my eyes, I would have just ordered a Reverend Sensei 'cos gosh they're pretty. At least their bridges and pots are in the right spot!

Suggestions for a Tele are good ideas. I might go give 'em a try next time and see what happens. I don't THINK I'm a fan of Teles, but I am sometimes (often) wrong. While playing the P90s, I think I was looking for something more humbuckery (hence asking about PAFs), rather than single-coilish, but it can't hurt to try

Since I seem to have attracted the P90 fans, what's the general consensus on Humbucker-Sized P90s? I've heard that they're not REALLY P90s but maybe that's what I'm looking for?

 

[Filipe Soares]

a cheap , but honest option

 

[Kinkless Tetrode]

Having read through the thread, it's apparent you are just not into the (non?) ergonomics of the SG and the like. I think you should probably try if you can an H/H tele. But it can't be one with a JB or equivalent in the bridge. I think your are more likely to feel comfortable with a Fender type platform. There are mahogany set neck teles too, there was a thread on one a month or so ago here.

Also a PRS with low wind humms or P90s might be worth a try.

 

[V-man]

a cheap , but honest option

View attachment 103442

He doesn’t like the bridge pup and knob layout of the SG (possibly more) and they are ugly as shit - my sentiments, not nec. his.

the two ergo ergonomic Gibsons are SGs and Vs (with the lesser used DC/Jrs). If a SG is problematic for all the mentioned reasons, the answer is the V or the other two perhaps. A tele has its merits, but it is a heavy bolt-on slab that prompts the question, why not stick with the LP you have then if you are looking at a HH tele?

 

[Kinkless Tetrode]

One thing about using Fender scale is that where the bridge sits relative to where the neck joins the body does not seem shifted over to the neck side and out of balance per these comments:

- Epiphone SG
Okay, the moment this sat in my lap, I was confused. Why is the bridge so far up the body? Why are the controls so far away from the strings? Why are there so many controls? Why is the pickup selector there? Also, the pickups were weak as piss. They got super muffled when volume was rolled off. I was surprised how much I hated this guitar so out of morbid curiosity...

- Gibson SG
NOPE. STILL HATE IT. Okay the pickups on this thing were way better and it had a much better setup. But WOW I hated playing an SG.

So in news that surprises me: I absolutely hate playing SGs. I absolutely do not want an SG. Sorry all you SG lovers out there. I'm not gonna say that they're a shite guitar 'cos lord knows that they aren't. But I absolutely hated playing it.

Although looks are subjective, I don't find teles particularly good looking either.

 

[El Gringo]

How about one of those EVH guitars built by Peavy ? Those will be much better than a Gibson .

 

[El Gringo]

One thing about using Fender scale is that where the bridge sits relative to where the neck joins the body does not seem shifted over to the neck side and out of balance per these comments:


Although looks are subjective, I don't find teles particularly good looking either.

Looks wise I hear you about Tele's , but there is no mistaking there tone now is there ? That is exactly where a Strat has no chance tone wise versus a Telecaster .

 

[Eric'45]

Since I seem to have attracted the P90 fans, what's the general consensus on Humbucker-Sized P90s?

As @AlvisX has said, Gibson P94s are the real deal.
If you wanna go the PAF route, I suggest to stay away from Gibson, though. In my experience, Burstbuckers are not that great. They have many Fans, but they are not so good for the classic PAF Tone. Just my , of course.
Please don't judge the Tele by it's looks. I don't care much for the standard Neck pickup, but we had that before: A Tele is the best Base for experiments. Especially for you- you don't seem to be shure what you really want yet.
Get a cheap Tele and mod away. Change Pickups, Electronics, even the Neck.

 

[AlvisX]

Since I seem to have attracted the P90 fans, what's the general consensus on Humbucker-Sized P90s? I've heard that they're not REALLY P90s but maybe that's what I'm looking for?

The general consensus is likely as uninformed as it is about real p90s . It's interesting to me though ,the exploding popularity of p90s the last decade or so
Ive been on the p90 since I was a late teen ( turned 59 last week) , so Ive had a Whole lotta time to figure it out


P90s came to earth in the late 40s. A TON of great p90 tones wound up on 50s blues records and most country records , before those Fender surfboards came to prominence. Jazz guys like Grant Green ...some insane hollow body p90 tone
THEN there was the marriage of solid bodies ,p90s and Marshalls .....fahgettaboutit !! The Who, Mountain (yeah I know, Sunn) Mott , Allen Collins , Steve Marriott, Steve Hunter on Aerosmith (probably the smokin-est p90 rock guitar tone ever on record for my money )
When i think about rock guitar tone , i think p90s . I think a lotta people don't see that .Used to be a lotta people routing out p90 guitars for DiMarzio Super D's


Certain hum sized pickup have IT , some don't
I think Gibson p94s are GREAT. I don't think much of Duncan Phat Cats , which is too bad because I have actual Duncan p90s in the bridge of everything ,and swear by 'em .but their hum sized thing aint cuttin it. I think I was disappointed with Rio Grande
I haven't tried Bare Knuckle in my own guitars ,just in a friend's. They're the sort of $$$ pickup for the trendy boutique-y guys . I can't say I was super impressed


@V-man, Hell yeah !!



P94 action......I have to ad , on a plywood guitar

 

[AlvisX]

And yeah, what I said about that SG Classic from the early 2000s

 

[DJGranite]

I know your anti Gibson at the moment, but you may want to try one of these...
It's a 2019 Gibson Les Paul Jr Double Cut tribute.
Mahogany slab body with a Maple neck and a P-90 and a Volume and a Tone. I bought it new from Guitar Center for $475 new out the door.
An affordable, simple, basic, rock and roll machine that is surprisingly versatile.
The tone and volume are very effective, cleans up very nicely with the volume knob and barks and growls with the best of them at full volume.
Roll back the tone and volume and you can get a very clean tone from a cranked amp.
It's the guitar I play the most since I bought it, and with the guitars I have (50+) that's saying something.
There's a small sampling in my media folder.

It's worth trying if you can find one.

 

[HFloyd]

Thanks for the suggestions so far.

The super local music store has a Hollowbody PRS SE, which comes loaded with PAF-style pickups. I'm gonna give that a crack today and see how we go. If nothing else, it'll help me figure out if PAFs were what I was looking for.

 

[ibmorjamn]

The general consensus is likely as uninformed as it is about real p90s . It's interesting to me though ,the exploding popularity of p90s the last decade or so
Ive been on the p90 since I was a late teen ( turned 59 last week) , so Ive had a Whole lotta time to figure it out


P90s came to earth in the late 40s. A TON of great p90 tones wound up on 50s blues records and most country records , before those Fender surfboards came to prominence. Jazz guys like Grant Green ...some insane hollow body p90 tone
THEN there was the marriage of solid bodies ,p90s and Marshalls .....fahgettaboutit !! The Who, Mountain (yeah I know, Sunn) Mott , Allen Collins , Steve Marriott, Steve Hunter on Aerosmith (probably the smokin-est p90 rock guitar tone ever on record for my money )
When i think about rock guitar tone , i think p90s . I think a lotta people don't see that .Used to be a lotta people routing out p90 guitars for DiMarzio Super D's


Certain hum sized pickup have IT , some don't
I think Gibson p94s are GREAT. I don't think much of Duncan Phat Cats , which is too bad because I have actual Duncan p90s in the bridge of everything ,and swear by 'em .but their hum sized thing aint cuttin it. I think I was disappointed with Rio Grande
I haven't tried Bare Knuckle in my own guitars ,just in a friend's. They're the sort of $$$ pickup for the trendy boutique-y guys . I can't say I was super impressed


@V-man, Hell yeah !!



P94 action

Good clips, I kind of like the V better. I had played a old Gibson hollow body with a single p90 mounted kind of middle or forward. That was the best sounding pickup but it was a vintage.
Happy belated birthday Alvis. I just had mine the week before that.

 

[ibmorjamn]

This looks like a similar guitar , great sound.

 

[ibmorjamn]

 

[HFloyd]

RESULT.

I went and played that PRS Hollowbody with PAFs and I THINK we onto a winner here. As in 95% sure, but I always give myself 24 hours of cooling off before I buy a guitar to make sure I'm not dazzled by pretty and excitement. If I still have dazzle and pretty and excitement and I've spent 24 hours finding logical leaps to justify the pretty, THEN I buy the pretty. So I'm currently in that 24 hour cool-off.

THAT BEING SAID.

I plugged it into a new JCM800 (which felt pretty similar to my JVM in a lot of ways). Had it set a bit more than crunchy and started messing with the volume knob. It all stayed chirpy and cleaned up and was pretty the entire time. It behaved pretty much exactly how I wanted it to do so. I was surprised at how much output I could get at full tilt. It was ALMOST in Maiden territory, which means if boosted it'd get there. Feedback was definitely a bit of an issue, but the room I play in is small, so feedback is an issue with all my guitars anyway.

I also compared it to a Tokai LP which had P90s in it. Can confirm that I'm not after P90s. I do like their cleanup, but on full volume, they just have this KERRRAANNNG to them which stabs me in the eyeballs. I know this is absolutely 100% what you P90 people will love about P90s, so you guys have fun there. But the P90 thing wasn't what I was looking for.

I THINK

It's the Hollowbody.

So when I got home, I plugged my LP into my JVM and messed with the volume knob. I was able to get SIMILAR levels of cleanup, however the issue was how dark and muddy things got. Which is probably why it never liked jamming with a Fuzz Face sorta thing. I also remember that I didn't like how the low-output P90s would muddy up so much when I rolled the volume off, which the high output ones didn't do.

ERGO.

I am going to suggest:
- Hollowbody adds brightness and clarity, so that when you roll the volume off, humbuckers won't muddy up and will instead stay clear and chirpy the whole way down.
- Low Output humbuckers balances out the brightness from the hollowbody so it doesn't get super twangy like a Gretch.
- High-Output P90s stayed chirpy on low volumes due to that super bright thing which I hate at full volume.

I'm gonna take my LP to the store tomorrow to do a side-by-side comparison through the same amp to test these theories, but I think I've found the niche I was looking for.