first jam with SV20C - questions about speaker/cabinet/tone

batfish

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Hi All,

I have an SV20h and SV20c (Studio Vintage series). The latter is a new purchase. I wanted a grab and go version of my head and cab/combo.

I brought it to a jam last night and played it at volume for the first time. There's a pretty big difference in tone between it and my head/cab which I'd like to get some feedback on.

First, I play my SV20h with a Friedman 'Dirty Shirley' 1x12 cabinet. It's a pretty big, open back cabinet with a celestion Creamback 65 in it. I've had it for years. To my ear the combo sounds much middier than the head and cab. The middier tone sounded awesome on solos but kind of grating when trying to lay back and play rythm. It's a very pokey sound, really cuts through. It has those 'nasal' sounding mids compared to the head and cab which, to my ear, sounds more balanced and pleasant. I could hear the nasal sound through the band mix which started to bug me after a while. The head and cab also "feels" easier under the fingers, less stiff.

As an experiment, I unplugged the combo speaker and played it through my Friedman cab and it sounded and felt just like my head and cab. So it's the speaker/cabinet not the amp which isn't suprising, but wanted to make sure.

I definitely prefer the sound and feel of the head and cab vs the combo. I can live with the combo and the convenience factor is good but would love it if it sounded more like my head/cab.

Is this really just the speaker? Do you think replacing the V-Type Jr with a 10" Creamback would get it closer to my head and cab? Or does it have more to do with the cabinet differences between a large, open back 1X12 and a much smaller 1x10 combo cab?

Any other suggestions (e.q. pedal, letting my ears get adjusted to the combo, speaker break-in, etc)? I can still return the combo but on the fence as I did like it overall - just that it sounds better paired with my Friedman cab vs it's internal speaker, but given I bought it as a grab-n-go I don't want to use it with my cab.

Also if anyone has tried this replacement let me know your thoughts. Thanks!
 
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Mitchell Pearrow

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I do not have an SV amp, but I would think that putting the same speaker as your cab will get you closer to that tone,, after it breaks in of course, but there will still be a slight difference because as you pointed out the cab difference’s,, just rock it for all it’s worth!!
Cheers
Mitch
 

LargeBoxSmallBox

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I believe it is the 10" speaker. I test drove the SC20c, and it was everything you described. Not to say it sounded bad, it didn't, but it was just 'less', and didn't sound gig-worthy. I ran a speaker cable to a 2x12 cab that was there, and it was a whole different beast, including much more sustain. The V-Type speakers are very good speakers. They sound fantastic with my SC20H and SC212 cab. It has all the Marshall greatness.

I also picked up a SC112 cab, for 'grab and go' situations. While it does take 2 hands to carry the amp and cab, it is light and easy and that setup sounds much better than the 1x10, IMO. And, the speaker in the SC112 is a V-Type.

Just my .02.
 

batfish

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Great to know LargeBoxSmallBox, especially that the 12" v-type sounds better. I guess it could just be the small combo cabinet too and the smaller speaker just generating a more nasal midrange somehow. I love the way my Friedman cab sounds but the handle is too damn tall for the feet on the head haha. I have to set it up on coasters :). May end up exchanging the cab for the SV112 and call it good.
 

Dirty Harry

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If you like the convenience of the combo I think you should give the speaker time to break in. My cabs & combo amps (inc SV20c) all improved out of sight after some good loud hours on them.
If then you’re still not 100% happy surely the 10 Cream 65 would get you closer, but ultimately a larger speaker in a larger enclosure is always going to sound different.
I assume you have just set the EQ same on combo as your head? Tweaking it gets you no closer?
I’m looking at a 1x12 cab as an extension for more gig versatility with my SV20c, so excited to hear your positive thoughts on that speaker/cab batfish, & also LBSB view on the factory extension👍👍
Just need to make up mind on open vs closed 🤔
 

batfish

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Hey Folks, thanks for the advice! First, I decided to keep the combo.

One update is that I have a Fender '68 Custom Deluxe Reverb that, as it turns out, has a 12" v-type in it. I tried playing the amp through that and heard a similar color in the frequency as I've been hearing in the combo's vt jr. So at least some of the frequency is coming from the speaker voicing and I just prefer the sound of the creamback that's in my Friedman cab, at least for most times (the v-type sounds awesome for blues rock type soloing and riffing but imho less good for chimy laid back rhythm playing).

With that additional information I decided to order a 10" g10 Creamback and I will try that out to see if it gets closer to my preferred sound. I also have another jam coming up where I'll be using the amp as-is once again and we'll see if additional break in time and my ear adjusting makes a difference.

Dirty Harry, yeah, that 1x12 Dirty Shirley cab with the creamback sounds great to my ear and it's significantly cheaper than the SV112. Once caveat is the head doesn't sit nicely on top of it do to the Friedman cabs tall handle but that's easy to work around (I use coasters lol). It's a big heavy cab for a 1x12 but still a one hand carry.
 

scozz

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………I love the way my Friedman cab sounds but the handle is too damn tall for the feet on the head haha…..
I had the same problem with my SC20 and a Marshall 1-12 cab, the amp could not clear the handle of the cab, Marshall MX112R cab.

The feet on the Studio heads are tiny.

I bought my amp in the winter in 2019, and within a month or so, I bought these Peavey large feet in the link below.

They work great and fit perfectly, they easily clear the handle, and no one would have any reason to think they are not stock.

In the pic below you can see my Stufio amp head, and you can see one of the feet just below the inputs. You can also see it clears the handle easily, and no one would think it’s not stock.


 

purpleplexi

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Lots of people have talked about throwing a 12" in the combo but I don't think anyone ever actually did it. I was swapping tubes in mine yesterday and looking in there it looks like there's room. Question is - is it the speaker or the cab size?
Dunno....
 

paul-e-mann

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Hey Folks, thanks for the advice! First, I decided to keep the combo.

One update is that I have a Fender '68 Custom Deluxe Reverb that, as it turns out, has a 12" v-type in it. I tried playing the amp through that and heard a similar color in the frequency as I've been hearing in the combo's vt jr. So at least some of the frequency is coming from the speaker voicing and I just prefer the sound of the creamback that's in my Friedman cab, at least for most times (the v-type sounds awesome for blues rock type soloing and riffing but imho less good for chimy laid back rhythm playing).

With that additional information I decided to order a 10" g10 Creamback and I will try that out to see if it gets closer to my preferred sound. I also have another jam coming up where I'll be using the amp as-is once again and we'll see if additional break in time and my ear adjusting makes a difference.

Dirty Harry, yeah, that 1x12 Dirty Shirley cab with the creamback sounds great to my ear and it's significantly cheaper than the SV112. Once caveat is the head doesn't sit nicely on top of it do to the Friedman cabs tall handle but that's easy to work around (I use coasters lol). It's a big heavy cab for a 1x12 but still a one hand carry.
I suspect the g10 creamback will make the difference, good luck! :yesway:
 

steve13881

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I did something cool, i took the chassis out of the SV20H and had a custom 1 x 12 combo cab built, I also have the 1x12 cab and 2x12 cab…. The 1x12 combo cab is as big as the 1x12 cab so much better than the 1x10 combo….. and with the right speakers I can go 3x12 straight up!
 

JamminJeff

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I've had my SV20h and SV212 for a while now, but I don't have the combo. Coming down off of 4X12's, I soon missed some of the low-mids and thump when I needed it. 4X12's usually have some natural compression qualities that it hard to emulate in a smaller cabinet. More speakers doesn't always mean louder, it just looks louder. Sometimes it is, but to me, I perceive a vertical 2X12 as louder and harder to tame. A horizonal 2X12 at floor level isn't so much in my face.

As a side note, I always wanted a Marshall TV cabinet (not sure of the model) but it's a big vertical cabinet and it's kind of pricey and not practical. My point is cabinet size and construction is part of this tone chasing do-da dance we all go thru. 1X12 combos just never did anything for me and why Marshall specd' a 1X10 in the SV20c is hard to wrap my head around. Maybe Warehouse Speakers has a solution.

Another challenge is when upgrading/changing rigs, it always leads to changing something else, at least for me anyway. A pedal we love may not always behave with a new amp, guitar, etc. Nothing new here, but changing an amp sometimes requires looking at the whole set-up, not just the amp, speakers, etc.

Anyway, the first thing I changed was the V-Type Speakers. They sound great, but they are too efficient for a smaller vertical 2X12 cab. (Haven't tried them in a 1X12). I need the speakers to start giving up the goods before it blasts me into oblivion and lean toward vintage sounding greenback tones. Unfortunately I pulled the speakers out of a Vintage Modern. These are the same ones in the Hendrix cabs and are silly expensive to purchase on the used market. These are probably as close to my holy grail tones as I can get or afford.

My guess is Warehouse or someone makes something close for a reasonable price. At the end of the day, it's the speaker that re-produces what we are putting into it and only the individual can determine what works for them.

By the way, I mostly use Strats so that does play a significant roll in the above comments. My No. 1 is an early 80's Tokai with a rosewood fretboard that has old EMG SSA actives in it. Sometimes I will play a Les Paul or 335 type guitar thru it using the same settings, and it's a bit too dark.

Sorry about all the "wurds". I do this in case it helps someone who is going down the same rabbit hole of tone chasing.

Also, if I needed a combo, I would probably choose the SC20 over the SV20, just for the master volume, plus I lived thru the JCM800 era and lived to tell about it. Great tones with either model and maybe a Jubilee should also be considered.

It never ends until it ends.
 
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Georgiatec

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I think using the 1 x 10 combos as a grab and go is fine, but you will need to mic it up for gigs. The Studio Jube combo comes with a 1 x 12 Greenback, so I'm guessing there's room in the others for a 12'' as well. I would just make another baffle with the bigger hole and whatever grille cloth you want, then swap the the lot over.
It will still sound boxy, due to the cab size, but should be a lot better than the 10"
 

Maxbrothman

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EQ will shape more bottom and highs into a mid-range pushed sound. So if you are already maxed out on the amps EQ then an EQ pedal makes sense. Your speaker size and type matter without EQing but EQ can get you there. Record your sound and use an EQ plugin to get the shape you need. Then try that shape in the EQ pedal.
 

scozz

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……….. The Studio Jube combo comes with a 1 x 12 Greenback, so I'm guessing there's room in the others for a 12'' as well. I would just make another baffle with the bigger hole and whatever grille cloth you want, then swap the the lot over………
I’m not completely sure about this, only because the SC and the SV combos are a slightly smaller than the Jubilee Studio.

The mini Jub originally came out years before the SC and SV did in 2019.

It wasn’t even called a “Studio” until Marshall included it with the other two and called them the “Studio” line in 2019.
 

Georgiatec

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I’m not completely sure about this, only because the SC and the SV combos are a slightly smaller than the Jubilee Studio.

The mini Jub originally came out years before the SC and SV did in 2019.

It wasn’t even called a “Studio” until Marshall included it with the other two and called them the “Studio” line in 2019.
Yes...why they didn't use exactly the same size box (and speaker) as the 2525c, is beyond me. I'm sure there are folks who have put 12" speakers in their Studio combos though.
I seem to remember when they released them Marshall said they tried them with a 12", but decided they sounded better with a 10".
 

Mystic38

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the V type tone is a "polite" V30 and so sounds nothing like a 65 creamback.

you could check the forum to see if anyone has fitted as 12" in the combo but a 10" creamback will get you 90% to what you have in the DS cab.. expect a bit less bass, a bit less open but will be an order of magnitude closer than with the v type.
 

Maxbrothman

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Yes...why they didn't use exactly the same size box (and speaker) as the 2525c, is beyond me. I'm sure there are folks who have put 12" speakers in their Studio combos though.
I seem to remember when they released them Marshall said they tried them with a 12", but decided they sounded better with a 10".
Maybe weight?

Were people complaining the Jubilee combo was too heavy?

Jubilee
19 kg / 42 lbs

vs


SV20
15.9kg / 35 lbs

vs

SV20
14.55 kg / 32 lbs
 

PelliX

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Buy a gutted or broken down DSL20, slip the SV or SC chassis in there. 12" ready by design. I think the holes should actually line up just fine... For me though, Marshall's sound best with closed back cabs, that's why many of their combos fall short. You can change speakers, but the inherent "problem" (to me at least) is still there. :2c:
 

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