DSL20HR Valve Change (to adjust Gain)?

[Rusty Strings]

Hi,Rusty Strings.Are you saying that just changing V2 to a 5751,but keeping V1 V3 stock,may give the best results ?.

Hi Graham G, tonight I will try the 5751 in V2 and keep the V1 V3 stock. The Musicmaniac member mentioned in the other thread that it was all he needed. But as you know, everybody has different perception and experience...

 

[Martin Adams]

For you guys changing V1 and or V2 ( I tried this too )you will hear different results at low and high or higher volumes and differences on the Low or High powered setting.
The DSL20HR head really opens up at band levels and sounds less compressed and fizzy. I found I needed to tweek the EQ a lot at higher volume reducing the harshness and making it smoother. I also reduced my gain on the Ultra gain channel to around 9 o clock and then hit the front with a good transparent boost( I use the Soulfood set with its drive at zero and volume slightly raised on the pedal. The result for me through my Zilla cab was very near the SC20H JCM800 Studio ( which I had briefly )
The DSL20HR has the sounds if you work at it and it’s a great amp. Could do with being a little louder with better headroom on the Classic Gain channel but I hardly play clean stuff !!!
I wish Marshall would do a 40W version as it would be the perfect home/ studio/ band head

 

[scozz]

With being an old fart I grew up with amps that just about had a Volume & "Tone",so I've always struggled with channel switching & I struggle even more with Pedals,i can't drag myself into the 1980's even in that respect.,that's why I need an Amp with enough gain for leads & that cleans up enough for rhythm playing which the DSL20 does,that's why my Origin 20H is going,not enough gain.
Cheers,& thanks for the info.

I understand completely Graham,....

 

[scozz]

For you guys changing V1 and or V2 ( I tried this too )you will hear different results at low and high or higher volumes and differences on the Low or High powered setting.
The DSL20HR head really opens up at band levels and sounds less compressed and fizzy. I found I needed to tweek the EQ a lot at higher volume reducing the harshness and making it smoother. I also reduced my gain on the Ultra gain channel to around 9 o clock and then hit the front with a good transparent boost( I use the Soulfood set with its drive at zero and volume slightly raised on the pedal. The result for me through my Zilla cab was very near the SC20H JCM800 Studio ( which I had briefly )
The DSL20HR has the sounds if you work at it and it’s a great amp. Could do with being a little louder with better headroom on the Classic Gain channel but I hardly play clean stuff !!!
I wish Marshall would do a 40W version as it would be the perfect home/ studio/ band head

Nice Martin, I am a big advocate of setting the gain and the volume high with Dsls. It sounds better to me and it seems closer to that Classic Marshall growl. I'm not a high gain fan, I prefer amps like Jcm800 and Plexis. That's why I bought a Jcm800 Studio Classic, it's the prefect amp for me!

 

[KingsXJJ]

I use this in V1 in my DSL20HR and it worked fantastically. Check the description and reviews.

https://www.musiciansfriend.com/acc...7-select-preamp-tube?rNtt=Preamp tube&index=6

 

[Graham G]

I use this in V1 in my DSL20HR and it worked fantastically. Check the description and reviews.

https://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessories/groove-tubes-gt-12ay7-select-preamp-tube?rNtt=Preamp tube&index=6

Thanks,i tried to check this out,but the website doesn't open past the Home page & search doesn't work,i suspect it's UK censorship of a US site or maybe the Store censoring UK access,maybe more likely.

 

[SkyMonkey]

Thanks,i tried to check this out,but the website doesn't open past the Home page & search doesn't work,i suspect it's UK censorship of a US site or maybe the Store censoring UK access,maybe more likely.

It's the European Union General Data Protection Directive (GDPR) I suspect.
I'm in the UK and have the same problem with many US shop websites.

 

[Graham G]

I use this in V1 in my DSL20HR and it worked fantastically. Check the description and reviews.

https://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessories/groove-tubes-gt-12ay7-select-preamp-tube?rNtt=Preamp tube&index=6

It's the European Union General Data Protection Directive (GDPR) I suspect.
I'm in the UK and have the same problem with many US shop websites.

But but,we're not in the European Union now .

 

[SkyMonkey]

We signed up to the GDPR before Brexit.
The GDPR still stands in UK law to protect your data privacy.
That law doesn't apply to the USA.
Websites in the US do not all comply to the GDPR, or wish to even try.
I think Musicians Friend is one such site and therefore our access is scrambled.

 

[SkyMonkey]

BTW I found this unanswered thread on the MF: http://www.marshallforum.com/thread...where-would-you-put-a-lower-gain-tube.104346/
Basically it states that Marshall say the DSL20 gain stages are as follows.

V1A input driver

V1B OD gain stage

V2A OD gain stage

V2B Clean and OD gain stage, tone stack driver

V3 Phase inverter


May be helpful if correct.

 

[Musicmaniac]

Hi Graham G, tonight I will try the 5751 in V2 and keep the V1 V3 stock. The Musicmaniac member mentioned in the other thread that it was all he needed. But as you know, everybody has different perception and experience...

Yes, in V1 to my ear didn't sound as good as in V2.

 

[Rusty Strings]

I have to say, I like the 5751 in V2 best so far, thank you Musicmaniac.
The clean still has the good compression and fattiness, devoid of brittleness. The ultra has a hair less overwhelming compression.
Now I am thinking, maybe putting the ECC81 / 12AT7 (medium gain valve) in the V2 to hopefully maintain the clean channel's goodness while further taming the compression on the ultra gain channel.
But what I remember putting the ECC81 / 12AT7 in the V3 was similar to 5751 into V1, so not so good, a bit brittle clean/classic gain channel.

 

[Graham G]

I've got a bit lost in what valve to put in which socket,so I think i'll order a 5751SRT & try it in V1/V2 & go from there.
Thanks to everyone who's replied.

 

[KingsXJJ]

Thanks,i tried to check this out,but the website doesn't open past the Home page & search doesn't work,i suspect it's UK censorship of a US site or maybe the Store censoring UK access,maybe more likely.

Sorry, it’s a Groove Tubes select 12AY7.

Website quote:
Early 70's vintage gain levels with a returned wider frequency response.

The Groove Tubes GT-12AY7 Select Preamp Tube is closest in specification to a 12AX7 and can be exchanged with a slight drop in gain. Most companies changed over to the 12AX7 as it became more common.

This tube can be tried in later Marshall amplifiers in the first gain position, where the owner of these amps would like to drop the background noise and lower the gain level to plexi or early 70's vintage gain levels with its returned wider frequency response.

 

[Graham G]

Sorry, it’s a Groove Tubes select 12AY7.

Website quote:
Early 70's vintage gain levels with a returned wider frequency response.

The Groove Tubes GT-12AY7 Select Preamp Tube is closest in specification to a 12AX7 and can be exchanged with a slight drop in gain. Most companies changed over to the 12AX7 as it became more common.

This tube can be tried in later Marshall amplifiers in the first gain position, where the owner of these amps would like to drop the background noise and lower the gain level to plexi or early 70's vintage gain levels with its returned wider frequency response.

Thanks,i'll see what the availability is in the UK.

 

[Musicmaniac]

I have to say, I like the 5751 in V2 best so far, thank you Musicmaniac.
The clean still has the good compression and fattiness, devoid of brittleness. The ultra has a hair less overwhelming compression.
Now I am thinking, maybe putting the ECC81 / 12AT7 (medium gain valve) in the V2 to hopefully maintain the clean channel's goodness while further taming the compression on the ultra gain channel.
But what I remember putting the ECC81 / 12AT7 in the V3 was similar to 5751 into V1, so not so good, a bit brittle clean/classic gain channel.

You're welcome! Let us know how that works out.

 

[Chris-in-LA]

Thanks,i tried to check this out,but the website doesn't open past the Home page & search doesn't work,i suspect it's UK censorship of a US site or maybe the Store censoring UK access,maybe more likely.

He’s suggesting a 12ay7 tube.

 

[Graham G]

He’s suggesting a 12ay7 tube.

Yes thanks,i got there in the end,i've ordered the 5751SRT,i'm only interested in the Ultra Ch.,so i'm not really concerned about the affect on the Classis Ch. & it doesn't reduce the Gain by as much a 12AY7,so i'll take it from there,one step at a time.

 

[MitchP]

Wow, long thread. I posted a ? thread about 2 weeks ago concerning my DSL20 head. My gain (clean for my purposes) is perfect, nice bright and sparkling tone when used with chorus and slight echo. My problem is when I switch to the ultra gain channel, my gain isn't overwhelming, but because of the single tone stack, I can't adjust the ultra gain separately. It drops almost all treble and gets dark with massive mids and bass. I don't want to be stomping on an EQ pedal AND channel change pedal!

Here in the States, I use TubeDepot for valves and have ordered a 5751 with alterations for microphonic and gain. I also heard it will give that Marshall "creamy" sound. I have also ordered a 12A7 (both JJ) to test. I never knew there were 4 pre-amp tubes and 2 dedicated to the OD gain. I just replaced the V2 in my Peavey ValveKing2 20w head from a 12AX7 to a 12AU7 and it tamed the gain perfectly. Somehow Peavey also manage to make a single tone stack respond the same for both clean and distortion channels. I think Marshall laid an egg with this amp and I kind of pi$$ed at having to pay for correcting their inability to make one tone stack consistent. Anyone else have the same problem?

Sorry, still new here and haven't updated my profile or pic info. Mitch in VA, USA. Going house crazy 'cause of this "China syndrome"

 

[Wormhoggg]

Very interesting thread guys. So did you check the new valves? Did you have any good results?
I have a DSL20HR and I have the exact same problem with gain being fizzy.