DSL20HR Valve Change (to adjust Gain)?

Graham G

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Could changing the pre-amp valve spec be used to reduce the Gain on the Ultra channel & maybe smooth it out a bit ?.
I had intended to sell my DSL20 & get the DSL40CR,but when I shop dem'd one I wasn't sure,so i'm thinking try & improve the Gain(for my use) & then look at sorting out a Speaker option.
Thanks.
 

ampmadscientist

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Could changing the pre-amp valve spec be used to reduce the Gain on the Ultra channel & maybe smooth it out a bit ?.
I had intended to sell my DSL20 & get the DSL40CR,but when I shop dem'd one I wasn't sure,so i'm thinking try & improve the Gain(for my use) & then look at sorting out a Speaker option.
Thanks.

tube gain.png
 

Graham G

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Thanks AMS,i'm not going to pretend i understand the chart,but if i'm correct a 5751 will give me a 30% reduction in Gain ?,i'm not familiar with that valve type,i'll do a search & see who stocks it,could a gain reduction also help with removing a bit of the "raspiness" or would i have to look elsewhere in the circuit for that ?.
Thanks for the info.
 

paul-e-mann

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Thanks AMS,i'm not going to pretend i understand the chart,but if i'm correct a 5751 will give me a 30% reduction in Gain ?,i'm not familiar with that valve type,i'll do a search & see who stocks it,could a gain reduction also help with removing a bit of the "raspiness" or would i have to look elsewhere in the circuit for that ?.
Thanks for the info.
Remember that whatever lower gain tube you put in V1 will lower gain in both channels, the clean channel probably wont be able to get any grit at all if that matters to you. JJ makes the ECC823, half the tube is ECC832 the other half is ECC823 so only the gain channel is affected by the tube and not the clean channel.

For smoother tone I like Groove Tube EL34M power tubes, get ones rated at 10.

As far as speakers the best in my opinion for DSLs is a pair of greenbacks or if only one speaker get a creamback. :yesway:
 

Martin Adams

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Also remember the amp tone changes as you crank the amp
At lowish volume it sounds a bit fizzy and compressed but as you open it up this improves. The same applies to the EQ it changes as you crank it
I use a Celestion Redback now in my 112 oversized cab ( previously allowed my DSZ100HR to be used at band practice ) and before that had a Creamback 65M which sounded nice

I tried a 5751 in V1 position ( nearest the guitar input jack ) and it improved slightly. However I put the JJ ECC83 back and turned Ultragain gain down to 9 o’clock and found it good too. I boost the input with an EHX Soulfood as boost only and this sounds very good ( Humbuckers )
I have a TC spark boost mini in loop and Boss DD8 ( very nice )
Thus gives me lead solo boost and delay
 

scozz

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I’ve used 5751, (30% less gain), and 12AT7, (40% less gain), in V1 or V2 with good results. In my experience they both would tame the gain and make the amps more musical to my ears. I’m not a fan of high gain.
 

Graham G

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Remember that whatever lower gain tube you put in V1 will lower gain in both channels, the clean channel probably wont be able to get any grit at all if that matters to you. JJ makes the ECC823, half the tube is ECC832 the other half is ECC823 so only the gain channel is affected by the tube and not the clean channel.

For smoother tone I like Groove Tube EL34M power tubes, get ones rated at 10.

As far as speakers the best in my opinion for DSLs is a pair of greenbacks or if only one speaker get a creamback. :yesway:

Thanks,i'm not too fussed about the Classis Ch.,i don't really use it,i just set the Ultra & use the Guitar knob,i'll check out those Groove Tubes thanks.

I've put a 5751 in V2 with good results.

I'm already in a bit over my head :),what would changing V2 do ?.
I've done some searching & there's a few options for the 5751(in terms of Manufacturer)there's an Electro Harmonics(gold pins),is this worth the extra £'s ?,then there is a 5751(SRT),which doesn't reduce the Gain quite as much,but according to the spec,it also does the sort of thing i'm looking for in taking away some of the "fizz",if this is correct i'm facouring this valve & depending on what the V2 difference is I might order a 5751 for that(hang the expense:D),i'll also check out the Groove Tubes.

Thanks for the Replies
 

Graham G

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Also remember the amp tone changes as you crank the amp
At lowish volume it sounds a bit fizzy and compressed but as you open it up this improves. The same applies to the EQ it changes as you crank it
I use a Celestion Redback now in my 112 oversized cab ( previously allowed my DSZ100HR to be used at band practice ) and before that had a Creamback 65M which sounded nice

I tried a 5751 in V1 position ( nearest the guitar input jack ) and it improved slightly. However I put the JJ ECC83 back and turned Ultragain gain down to 9 o’clock and found it good too. I boost the input with an EHX Soulfood as boost only and this sounds very good ( Humbuckers )
I have a TC spark boost mini in loop and Boss DD8 ( very nice )
Thus gives me lead solo boost and delay

The DSL is always pretty much maxed out,but the Gain gets unusable past 1 o'clock,i'm really trying to get rid of a bit of "raspiness" so I can wind it up a bit more,so my thinking is if I reduce the overall gain a bit I may be able to open the pot a bit more,i generally find pots work best when they're just under full On(plus it's louder :band: :D).
Funny i'm alternating between a Redback & a Mesa EVM12 at the moment,i don't have a specific cab for the Redback at the moment,so i'm using it in my Rocker 30C('till I sell it),so i'd be interested in hearing more about your cab,i've been thing about buying an Orange PPC112 because it's pretty much the same cab as the Rocker but closed back,but that would mean throwing the Vintage 30 in a skip(wasting money ;)),which if the V30 in my Rocker is anything to go by,that's all it's fit for.

I’ve used 5751, (30% less gain), and 12AT7, (40% less gain), in V1 or V2 with good results. In my experience they both would tame the gain and make the amps more musical to my ears. I’m not a fan of high gain.

I don't mind the gain(it hides my crap lead playing a bit)but I'd like to try & improve the Gain quality at the moment when it's cranked,i think i'm going to order a 5751 & a 5751SRT,so I can compare them,unless somebody yells NO!.
I should just say that in spite of my wanting to "improve" my DSL20,i do realise it's a budget amp & to be honest it's more than useable as is( I probably shouldn't say this here but I prefer it the JVM215C I had :(),so if I can get it a few % better for the sake of a couple of Valves,i think it's worth trying.
Once again I appreciate all the advice & help.
Thanks.
 

scozz

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The DSL is always pretty much maxed out,but the Gain gets unusable past 1 o'clock,i'm really trying to get rid of a bit of "raspiness" so I can wind it up a bit more,so my thinking is if I reduce the overall gain a bit I may be able to open the pot a bit more,i generally find pots work best when they're just under full On(plus it's louder :band: :D).
Funny i'm alternating between a Redback & a Mesa EVM12 at the moment,i don't have a specific cab for the Redback at the moment,so i'm using it in my Rocker 30C('till I sell it),so i'd be interested in hearing more about your cab,i've been thing about buying an Orange PPC112 because it's pretty much the same cab as the Rocker but closed back,but that would mean throwing the Vintage 30 in a skip(wasting money ;)),which if the V30 in my Rocker is anything to go by,that's all it's fit for.



I don't mind the gain(it hides my crap lead playing a bit)but I'd like to try & improve the Gain quality at the moment when it's cranked,i think i'm going to order a 5751 & a 5751SRT,so I can compare them,unless somebody yells NO!.
I should just say that in spite of my wanting to "improve" my DSL20,i do realise it's a budget amp & to be honest it's more than useable as is( I probably shouldn't say this here but I prefer it the JVM215C I had :(),so if I can get it a few % better for the sake of a couple of Valves,i think it's worth trying.
Once again I appreciate all the advice & help.
Thanks.
I think that's a good idea, that's probably what I would do, try a 5751. You also might want to think about different power tubes, they have an effect on the tone of the amp too. Maybe study up on what different brands of EL34s will do for the tone/gain.
 

Graham G

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I think that's a good idea, that's probably what I would do, try a 5751. You also might want to think about different power tubes, they have an effect on the tone of the amp too. Maybe study up on what different brands of EL34s will do for the tone/gain.

Thanks scozz,i'm in the middle of ordering from WV,how much difference does the brand make they only have the 5751 SRT in "Harma" ? brand.
Alsso Pedecamp suggested Groove Tubes,I think WV also has them,might as well give it a good go :).
 

scozz

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Thanks scozz,i'm in the middle of ordering from WV,how much difference does the brand make they only have the 5751 SRT in "Harma" ? brand.
Alsso Pedecamp suggested Groove Tubes,I think WV also has them,might as well give it a good go :).
What is WV Graham? Are you in the States?
 

paul-e-mann

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Thanks scozz,i'm in the middle of ordering from WV,how much difference does the brand make they only have the 5751 SRT in "Harma" ? brand.
Alsso Pedecamp suggested Groove Tubes,I think WV also has them,might as well give it a good go :).
Maybe get a pair of Groove Tube 5751 for v1 and v2, and a pair of EL34M power tubes.
 

Martin Adams

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Hi Graham I’m also based in the U.K.

My cab is the excellent Zilla Fatbaby that came with the creamback m65
Then I got the Zilla Fatboy 212 for my band and DSL100HR. As I wanted to use my Fatbaby for band practice I changed the speaker to the Redback. It’s a great speaker and sounds good low and high volume.
You must play loud or have an attenuator as even at gig volume mine never went beyond 1 o clock on the channel volume on 20W setting and we were a rock band.
A high efficiency speaker / cab helps too
 

Graham G

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Hi Graham I’m also based in the U.K.

My cab is the excellent Zilla Fatbaby that came with the creamback m65
Then I got the Zilla Fatboy 212 for my band and DSL100HR. As I wanted to use my Fatbaby for band practice I changed the speaker to the Redback. It’s a great speaker and sounds good low and high volume.
You must play loud or have an attenuator as even at gig volume mine never went beyond 1 o clock on the channel volume on 20W setting and we were a rock band.
A high efficiency speaker / cab helps too

Ok Martin thanks,i'll check it out,i don't think we play particulary loud,but we are old & deaf:D,i set my Amp volume for leads & then turn down on the Guitar for rhythm,so it isn't whacked up all the time.:band:
 

Martin Adams

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Ok Martin thanks,i'll check it out,i don't think we play particulary loud,but we are old & deaf:D,i set my Amp volume for leads & then turn down on the Guitar for rhythm,so it isn't whacked up all the time.:band:
Old school method .. I like it .... Paul who runs Zilla Cabs is really helpful and you do get a great cab. I have tried the method you use for lead boost but always struggle with it feeling my tone and gain was suffering between the two settings on the guitar volume.
 

Graham G

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Old school method .. I like it .... Paul who runs Zilla Cabs is really helpful and you do get a great cab. I have tried the method you use for lead boost but always struggle with it feeling my tone and gain was suffering between the two settings on the guitar volume.

With being an old fart I grew up with amps that just about had a Volume & "Tone",so I've always struggled with channel switching & I struggle even more with Pedals,i can't drag myself into the 1980's even in that respect.:),that's why I need an Amp with enough gain for leads & that cleans up enough for rhythm playing which the DSL20 does,that's why my Origin 20H is going,not enough gain.
Cheers,& thanks for the info.
 

Rusty Strings

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Could changing the pre-amp valve spec be used to reduce the Gain on the Ultra channel & maybe smooth it out a bit ?.
I had intended to sell my DSL20 & get the DSL40CR,but when I shop dem'd one I wasn't sure,so i'm thinking try & improve the Gain(for my use) & then look at sorting out a Speaker option.
Thanks.
I experimented with the DSL20HR's preamp valves shared in this thread:
http://www.marshallforum.com/threads/satisfying-preamp-valve-test-results-on-marshall-dsl20.110644/
however, last night I experimented again and in the end put the original valves in for a refresh reference , but I will change the V2 to 5751 as someone here mentioned that this maintained fattiness and sparkle of classic gain channel while taming the ultragain channel gain and compression. ( 5751 in V1 with ecc83s in V2 apparently produces thin and brittle classic gain channel)
 

Graham G

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I experimented with the DSL20HR's preamp valves shared in this thread:
http://www.marshallforum.com/threads/satisfying-preamp-valve-test-results-on-marshall-dsl20.110644/
however, last night I experimented again and in the end put the original valves in for a refresh reference , but I will change the V2 to 5751 as someone here mentioned that this maintained fattiness and sparkle of classic gain channel while taming the ultragain channel gain and compression. ( 5751 in V1 with ecc83s in V2 apparently produces thin and brittle classic gain channel)

Hi,Rusty Strings.Are you saying that just changing V2 to a 5751,but keeping V1 V3 stock,may give the best results ?.
 

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