Does the 100 watt amp still have a place in modern venues and where?

[TheLoudness!!]

In my experience, it's only the other guitar players in the crowd that care.

They're also the same guys that rush the stage to tell me how much more awesome their amp, guitar or random fx pedal is compared to what I'm using (also the reason my stage gear is all de-badged. I love the confusion on their faces when they arrive for their post-gig gear judging contest).

Honestly? Fuck those guys. In 30+ years of gigging, not a single chick has given half a shit about the gear on stage. And they're the ones that matter.

You've really had people come up to you after a show and tell you how awesome or how much better their gear is than yours?

That's really arrogant of them. My only concern is that they are making good music with what they have, no matter what that might be. I'm not going to go up to no player after the show and knock on what they are using. That is just being a dick.

If I do see something neat, I will gladly compliment them on it. If they are using gear that isn't to my taste...well that doesn't even matter because I'm not the one playing it. They are the only person who has to like it and enjoy it.

The flip side of the coin is that if I'm playing gear that they don't like, it doesn't matter because the only person who has to like it is me.

Sometimes gear is a lot like a used car, the vast majority of people play (or drive) the best thing that they can afford. For better or for worse.

 

[TonalEuphoria]

The flip side of the coin is that if I'm playing gear that they don't like, it doesn't matter because the only person who has to like it is me.

Sometimes gear is a lot like a used car, the vast majority of people play (or drive) the best thing that they can afford. For better or for worse.

Yep.

 

[Len]

Big tubes and big iron still sound better than the small ones, even if they have to be turned down or run through an attenuator.

 

[Crikey]

I think that deserves a whole new thread on it's own. To me, there's so much more to that. Most being to the change in mentality and culture. The attitude and passion for something far more important than you and that fills a person so deeply they have to shout it in music or die. It's just seems it's not as prevalent today as in the past. Rock and roll is about attitude and passion. You can't have it without it. Then songs just become sterile pop tunes with distorted guitars.

What's happened to rock and other music today that it's become so sterile?

Is it culture now? Technology? The state of world affairs? The comforts in life just made everyone soft and squishy inside? Yes some of those choices in the poll are just for fun. But the subject is real. What's happened to music today?

www.marshallforum.com

This sterility of music opens the door for the next wave.What that wave is is anyones best guess

 

[Crikey]

I

I certainly am. I'm trying to get rid of my FM3 right now.

have a pod hd 500. Love/ hate
Good for recording some weird sounds but sucks with the amp

 

[marshallmellowed]

For me, it's 2 sided. I love playing through my tube amps at home, as loud as I like without my ears ringing. Playing out, it's all about portability and versatility, so I use the best sounding/feeling modeling tech. I could find. For me, that's an Axe Fx II XL+, which was the last release of the II. I love it, and it works perfectly for playing gigs. Our other guitarist uses a Helix, which sounds pretty good also, good enough to do the job. In my 2nd band, the other guitarist uses a POD GO, which sounds "OK", and also does the job good enough. While I love my tube amps, I have no desire to haul them around to gigs, plus a pedalboard. Before I'd even consider it, I'd be putting them in road cases, which would add even more size/weight for me to cart around. While the size of the venues we play varies, most of the venues we play are just not well suited for using amps at anything but very low volumes. Some day I'd like to have an outdoor jam in the back yard using just amps, old-school style. On my bucket list.

 

[scozz]

A little bit off topic but kinda on topic. I don’t get to play my tsl 100 when my wife is home so I’m always using my vht because I can go from near bedroom level to full stage volume. One day her and my daughter left to go shopping so empty house equals Marshall. About eight minutes after they left, the lights in my basement living room started flickering on and off. I stopped playing to hear my wife screaming down the steps “ do you have to play that thing so f…ing loud?” Well I yelled back “it’s a Marshall “.

Hahaha, I have the opposite situation. My wife and I are both retired, (in our 60s), we’re both home, but my wife goes out a lot.

Shopping, visiting friends, etc. she’s probably out of the house 4 or 5 times a week.

Guess what I do when she’s not home?

Master on 7 or 8, preamp around the same!

 

[scozz]

You've really had people come up to you after a show and tell you how awesome or how much better their gear is than yours?

That's really arrogant of them. My only concern is that they are making good music with what they have, no matter what that might be. I'm not going to go up to no player after the show and knock on what they are using. That is just being a dick.

If I do see something neat, I will gladly compliment them on it. If they are using gear that isn't to my taste...well that doesn't even matter because I'm not the one playing it. They are the only person who has to like it and enjoy it.

The flip side of the coin is that if I'm playing gear that they don't like, it doesn't matter because the only person who has to like it is me.

Sometimes gear is a lot like a used car, the vast majority of people play (or drive) the best thing that they can afford. For better or for worse.

Completely agree!

Who the hell comes up to a band, playing onstage, telling the guitarist that they have “better” gear that guitarist playing?

Where exactly does that conversation go from there? Sheesh!

 

[Deftone]

I don't think there is anything wrong with a modeler, they certainly have their place. I would think that they would be the best option for a cover band guitarist that needs a wide variety of tones and efx. It's a great option to have.

 

[FutureProf88]

I've played a full stack in a bar. Granted, it had a PPIMV on it but I still had it running up a bit past noon. The FOH engineer had "questions" but we made it work and it sounded good. I mostly wanted to do it for the visual factor. I've also played a show with a Class 5. I think that there is something to be said for being able to make the gear you've got work for what you're doing.

That being said I like playing big amps moving a lot of air. I would not be amenable to playing a silent stage. I'm okay with playing big solid state amps and lately at rehearsal I've been playing my MG100 head through a 412 with V30's to save the tubes in my other amps. I've gotten it sounding where I'm pretty happy with it and I'd consider playing a live show with it. I'm actually looking at the Orange Guitar Butler and considering running one through a Pedal Baby into a cabinet. But there's something about having guitar speakers in a box pushing air around and being seen doing it.

 

[Clifdawg]

Hot take here coming from a 33-year-old who grew up in the analog-to-digital transition phase:

I voted no. But not because I feel like large amps don’t have their place - I’ve seen large stages where a 100w head was run into an attenuator and DI’d to the house while the guitarist used a 1x12 as a stage monitor. That’s a fantastic setup.

I’m sure there are still a few locations where a large amp might be the only way you can get by - a couple of situations have been mentioned in this thread - but IMO the stages and venues that would require a full 100 watts of power dimed at the same ones that probably have a killer house system that can more evenly distribute the sound to the audience at a more reasonable volume.

Acoustics is a real concern for venues, and the guy sitting 30 yards in directly in front of the cab is probably going to be losing his hearing and complaining that he can’t hear the vocals while the guy 60 yards in and 50 degrees off the cab will probably wonder why the guitarist won’t turn it up a little. Space, absorption, and reflectivity have a lot to do with sound - and yes - tone. A huge amp, dimed, not running through the house (or just so loud the sound guy really can’t do anything with it) just ignores all that and is typically set to sound good to the player. That might be an inspiring tone to the player, but maybe not for the audience.

With PA technology and sound quality as good as it is now, it’s probably preferable to use a 20-40 watt combo or some DI/FRFR solution for the stage while piping in the sound either directly or by mic to the house. A full array of PA speakers may not sound “as good as” the real thing, but it can probably deliver 90% of the stage tone to 90% of the audience.

That’s not to say that there’s no fun to be had playing with a cranked half-stack. Been there, done that, it’s a blast. But it’s impractical at home, impractical at many venues, and hearing damage is a real thing that really happens. If you love the sound of your MV or attenuated 100w amp, then great! I just don’t think it’s absolutely necessary in most cases.

But play what inspires you… There’s absolutely nothing wrong with a big amp (I’d love to have another one some day).

 

[Crikey]

Completely agree!

Who the hell comes up to a band, playing onstage, telling the guitarist that they have “better” gear that guitarist playing?

Where exactly does that conversation go from there? Sheesh!

The reply to their statement of better should be or include,” ass spincter says what?”

 

[Crikey]

Hot take here coming from a 33-year-old who grew up in the analog-to-digital transition phase:

I voted no. But not because I feel like large amps don’t have their place - I’ve seen large stages where a 100w head was run into an attenuator and DI’d to the house while the guitarist used a 1x12 as a stage monitor. That’s a fantastic setup.

I’m sure there are still a few locations where a large amp might be the only way you can get by - a couple of situations have been mentioned in this thread - but IMO the stages and venues that would require a full 100 watts of power dimed at the same ones that probably have a killer house system that can more evenly distribute the sound to the audience at a more reasonable volume.

Acoustics is a real concern for venues, and the guy sitting 30 yards in directly in front of the cab is probably going to be losing his hearing and complaining that he can’t hear the vocals while the guy 60 yards in and 50 degrees off the cab will probably wonder why the guitarist won’t turn it up a little. Space, absorption, and reflectivity have a lot to do with sound - and yes - tone. A huge amp, dimed, not running through the house (or just so loud the sound guy really can’t do anything with it) just ignores all that and is typically set to sound good to the player. That might be an inspiring tone to the player, but maybe not for the audience.

With PA technology and sound quality as good as it is now, it’s probably preferable to use a 20-40 watt combo or some DI/FRFR solution for the stage while piping in the sound either directly or by mic to the house. A full array of PA speakers may not sound “as good as” the real thing, but it can probably deliver 90% of the stage tone to 90% of the audience.

That’s not to say that there’s no fun to be had playing with a cranked half-stack. Been there, done that, it’s a blast. But it’s impractical at home, impractical at many venues, and hearing damage is a real thing that really happens. If you love the sound of your MV or attenuated 100w amp, then great! I just don’t think it’s absolutely necessary in most cases.

But play what inspires you… There’s absolutely nothing wrong with a big amp (I’d love to have another one some day).

Anyone claiming they are running a 100/50 watter “dimed” wouldnt last on long on stage.
Lets drop the “ dimed” folklore out of whether 100/50 still are practical and sound good.
Additionally, while the volume dial may go to 10, above 6 on myJcm 800 2210 and the volume is not increased but the flub is.
To further dispel the “dimed” folklore only a very tiny few amps sound better “ dimed”
My big amps are controllable for smaller gigs. With a MV or attenuator.

 

[TonalEuphoria]

I

have a pod hd 500. Love/ hate
Good for recording some weird sounds but sucks with the amp

And that's all the modelers come down to for me because I don't like playing them live. Just to use for recording, because there easy to just plug in and go. But it's the lazy way. And if you really do love the tone out of your tube amps more and are doing serious recording, than why? And that's what I realized. And when I asked myself, did I really want to be that lazy and sacrifice my tone for the music I'm recording and care about and put so much other work into for my guitar parts? And the clear and definite answer for me, was hell no.

Now there is also music I may record at times that are just quick stuff to send to someone to work on that the doesn't matter as much. But I have plugins also that do the exact same thing as the modelers. The only difference is the modeler has a computer built in and the plugins are using the recording computer. And I still have a bunch that I barely use. Amplitube 5 Max, Overloud Th-U, and various Neural DSP's. The only reason for the modeler than is none. So up for sale it went. And strangely there are quite a few up for sale these days.

 

[FutureProf88]

Hot take here coming from a 33-year-old who grew up in the analog-to-digital transition phase:

I voted no. But not because I feel like large amps don’t have their place - I’ve seen large stages where a 100w head was run into an attenuator and DI’d to the house while the guitarist used a 1x12 as a stage monitor. That’s a fantastic setup.

I’m sure there are still a few locations where a large amp might be the only way you can get by - a couple of situations have been mentioned in this thread - but IMO the stages and venues that would require a full 100 watts of power dimed at the same ones that probably have a killer house system that can more evenly distribute the sound to the audience at a more reasonable volume.

Acoustics is a real concern for venues, and the guy sitting 30 yards in directly in front of the cab is probably going to be losing his hearing and complaining that he can’t hear the vocals while the guy 60 yards in and 50 degrees off the cab will probably wonder why the guitarist won’t turn it up a little. Space, absorption, and reflectivity have a lot to do with sound - and yes - tone. A huge amp, dimed, not running through the house (or just so loud the sound guy really can’t do anything with it) just ignores all that and is typically set to sound good to the player. That might be an inspiring tone to the player, but maybe not for the audience.

With PA technology and sound quality as good as it is now, it’s probably preferable to use a 20-40 watt combo or some DI/FRFR solution for the stage while piping in the sound either directly or by mic to the house. A full array of PA speakers may not sound “as good as” the real thing, but it can probably deliver 90% of the stage tone to 90% of the audience.

That’s not to say that there’s no fun to be had playing with a cranked half-stack. Been there, done that, it’s a blast. But it’s impractical at home, impractical at many venues, and hearing damage is a real thing that really happens. If you love the sound of your MV or attenuated 100w amp, then great! I just don’t think it’s absolutely necessary in most cases.

But play what inspires you… There’s absolutely nothing wrong with a big amp (I’d love to have another one some day).

A fellow X-ennial! Having also played both kinds of setups, I find that I still prefer the attenuated 100 watt amp to an unattenuated small amp in most situations. There is a certain feel of having a big power section at your command, even if it is restrained through an attenuator. I also do like to have the capability to "override" the front of house mix if I see the need and on one occasion I did have to do that.

One thing I have noticed is that using open back cabinets dramatically cuts down on the punishment of people sitting in the beam of the speaker cabinet. I've used an open back 212 as of late and I've found it to be quite pleasant. If I were to play a show with a 412 again I think I might look for a convertible or semi-open back 412.

 

[TonalEuphoria]

I don't think there is anything wrong with a modeler, they certainly have their place. I would think that they would be the best option for a cover band guitarist that needs a wide variety of tones and efx. It's a great option to have.

No matter what, it's personal choice. Players shouldn't be concerned what another player thinks they should use and do. It's their damn rig, their gig, their music and them playing it. And if someone finds a modeling rig best for them, that's all that should matter. I think everyone here understands that. And they use what works for them. It doesn't mean players may not be using a modeler though in a situation where that the ease of it or other benefits really aren't there. Like players using a modeler and only one amp model all the time and still bringing along an FRFR or another amp to plug into to have better stage volume at the same time. Than any lightweight rig benefits are gone.

But I'm sure everyone doesn't see it that way either. I do. Or the player using a modeler that isn't using more than one or two amp models for their gigs and running a rack rig using a seperate power amp and Furman, and running it into a 4-12 cab at the same time. That makes no sense to me, unless you really are touring hard and want to not deal with the maintenance of tube amps. But to each their own. But there, you aren't getting the ease of just carrying a light weight rig and running it direct. And you aren't needing it for all the various amp models it does and any ease of care difference, it makes no sense to me at all. Instead of just bringing and using the real thing? It all comes down to is there a real benefit in the choice though and what the player likes in tone. And I know lots of player don't hear or care about the tonal difference these days between the modelers and the real thing. Not to still use a tube amp. Fine, more for all of us than.

 

[marshallmellowed]

I don't think there is anything wrong with a modeler, they certainly have their place. I would think that they would be the best option for a cover band guitarist that needs a wide variety of tones and efx. It's a great option to have.

Yes, assuming the modeling technology is accurate, they really do work great in a cover band. The only amp we have on stage is a small bass amp, and that may even go away. It does make for a rather boring stage presence, but a small head or 1x12 combo wouldn't look much different, and much less versatile. A lot of it depends on if you're just using one sound, or if you need to replicate many. We try and recreate the songs we play as best we can, so lots of ground to cover.

 

[Deftone]

The only amp we have on stage is a small bass amp, and that may even go away. It does make for a rather boring stage presence,

Maybe time for some fake Marshall stacks? J/K

 

[Jethro Rocker]

Acoustics is a real concern for venues, and the guy sitting 30 yards in directly in front of the cab is probably going to be losing his hearing and complaining that he can’t hear the vocals while the guy 60 yards in and 50 degrees off the cab will probably wonder why the guitarist won’t turn it up a little

One thing I have noticed is that using open back cabinets dramatically cuts down on the punishment of people sitting in the beam of the speaker cabinet. I've used an open back 212 as of late and I've found it to be quite pleasant. If I were to play a show with a 412 again I think I might look for a convertible or semi-open back 412.

Yep that beaming effect is a problem in other than the largest venues with a 4x12. My bandmate had that issue until he got a 2x12 combo. Have seen it first hand many times.

Open back 50 to 100 watt 2x12 or even a head on a 2x12 (or angled 2x12 cab) is perfectly sufficient for all but the largest venues.

Say, for those of you that get to crank up a big amp at home, do you use hearing protection? I know some people play wireless from the other room which seems to defeat the purpose. While I like feeling the arm hairs vibrate I do not like my ears feeling uncomfortable or pain. Kinda takes away the fun for me.

 

[FutureProf88]

Yep that beaming effect is a problem in other than the largest venues with a 4x12. My bandmate had that issue until he got a 2x12 combo. Have seen it first hand many times.

Open back 50 to 100 watt 2x12 or even a head on a 2x12 (or angled 2x12 cab) is perfectly sufficient for all but the largest venues.

Say, for those of you that get to crank up a big amp at home, do you use hearing protection? I know some people play wireless from the other room which seems to defeat the purpose. While I like feeling the arm hairs vibrate I do not like my ears feeling uncomfortable or pain. Kinda takes away the fun for me.

I use hearing protection even cranking small amps at home.