Dave Friedman's 50w Plexi

playloud

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2020
Messages
956
Reaction score
1,202
There appear to be more than a few misconceptions in this video, which will make for either entertaining or frustrating viewing - depending on your perspective.

I daresay those of us with less-than-mint examples ourselves may be able to take some comfort. Dave Friedman regularly extols the amazing tone of this amp, in spite of the originality (or otherwise) of the interior!

 

echoplexi1974

Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2013
Messages
54
Reaction score
24
I was surprised how ratty it was inside, tack welding and not too discrimatory on what replacement parts were used. You would think he would take a little more pride in that amp of that vintage.

But, it's his amp and he is entitled to whatever he wants to do with it. Now I'm wondering what the EVH #12301 looks like inside after Dave Friedman has been through it.
 

playloud

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2020
Messages
956
Reaction score
1,202
I was surprised how ratty it was inside, tack welding and not too discrimatory on what replacement parts were used. You would think he would take a little more pride in that amp of that vintage.

But, it's his amp and he is entitled to whatever he wants to do with it. Now I'm wondering what the EVH #12301 looks like inside after Dave Friedman has been through it.

Yes, even leaving the parts aside, the work looks dreadful. A real "hairdresser with bad hair" situation.

I was more surprised by how confidently Steven Fryette spouts all that misinformation:
- Orange drops sound the same as mustards
- He can't read the date codes on the mustard caps, will need to consult the internet
- It's a "Super Bass"
- Oh wait, no there's no "50W Super Bass", must be a "JTM"
- After checking "the internet", he reads the wrong code on the Erie electrolytic
- The Daly cap "looks original"
- Plexis end in '68
etc.

An important reminder that there's a distinction between being a good tech and a vintage enthusiast. I guess we're lucky to have a few people around here who are both!
 

echoplexi1974

Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2013
Messages
54
Reaction score
24
That's what I thought too! This is thee place on the internet with the most knowledge and expertise in vintage marshalls period!
An important reminder that there's a distinction between being a good tech and a vintage enthusiast. I guess we're lucky to have a few people around here who are both!
 

DragonCrestPC

Active Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2019
Messages
122
Reaction score
224
Yikes my 68 is almost 100% original ( the filter caps have been changed ) I was surprised to see how Daves amp looked inside.
 

AndyD

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2018
Messages
615
Reaction score
632
Location
UK
Yes, even leaving the parts aside, the work looks dreadful. A real "hairdresser with bad hair" situation.

I was more surprised by how confidently Steven Fryette spouts all that misinformation:
- Orange drops sound the same as mustards
- He can't read the date codes on the mustard caps, will need to consult the internet
- It's a "Super Bass"
- Oh wait, no there's no "50W Super Bass", must be a "JTM"
- After checking "the internet", he reads the wrong code on the Erie electrolytic
- The Daly cap "looks original"
- Plexis end in '68
etc.

An important reminder that there's a distinction between being a good tech and a vintage enthusiast. I guess we're lucky to have a few people around here who are both!
Thanks for sharing this! Very entertaining...and at times very interesting. I was astonished to see him power up the amp without a load. Whether it was "only" on standby or not, it is a hell of a risk to power up the amp without the load. He only has to accidentally knock off the standby switch and that amp becomes toast. He's obviously very confident in what he is doing!
 

playloud

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2020
Messages
956
Reaction score
1,202
Thanks for sharing this! Very entertaining...and at times very interesting. I was astonished to see him power up the amp without a load. Whether it was "only" on standby or not, it is a hell of a risk to power up the amp without the load. He only has to accidentally knock off the standby switch and that amp becomes toast. He's obviously very confident in what he is doing!

Yikes, I didn't make it to that part!

Perhaps I was mistaken about the "distinction" above, after all...
 

AndyD

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2018
Messages
615
Reaction score
632
Location
UK
Yikes, I didn't make it to that part!

Perhaps I was mistaken about the "distinction" above, after all...
Clearly a very clever guy. Just a bit too casual, shall we say, in front of a camera!
 

john l

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Messages
1,098
Reaction score
526
Location
ORANGE COUNTY
Yeah. Im not taking shots at him or anything as I believe Steve Fryette to be a very smart man but there were definitely more than one eyebrow raising statements in the last few episodes. I mean I get that when you deal with the amount of amps that these guys do that eventually you care less and less about originality and how straight leads are but man alive Steve's view on not replacing original filtering from the the 60s and 70s was staggering to me on the last couple of episodes.

Given all the unoriginal parts in that amp in places that actually would effect tone it makes no sense why he would take such chances to keep the tired ass electrolytics in there. Sure they may still be limping on but your're rolling the dice with irreplaceable things like amp's iron by doing so and its just not worth the risk. Sometimes filters dont give any noticeable signs of going bad before they go, they can just pop and then and you just have to cross youre fingers that they didnt take anything else with them. Much better to be proactive and I personally have never heard fresh filters do anything but sound better and feel better to play. Most things aren't what they used to be and their hay day was long ago but modern electrolytes are one of the few things that have only gotten better as time has gone by.
 

mark123

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2017
Messages
649
Reaction score
1,277
... I was astonished to see him power up the amp without a load. Whether it was "only" on standby or not, it is a hell of a risk to power up the amp without the load. He only has to accidentally knock off the standby switch and that amp becomes toast. He's obviously very confident in what he is doing!
Is that reality though? Will my amp actual disintegrate into ash if I forget to hook the speaker up? Is it hyperbole? Overcautiousness? Mesa's tube test video shows the tech running power and standby with no load.
 

john l

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Messages
1,098
Reaction score
526
Location
ORANGE COUNTY
Is that reality though? Will my amp actual disintegrate into ash if I forget to hook the speaker up? Is it hyperbole? Overcautiousness? Mesa's tube test video shows the tech running power and standby with no load.
Not without signal going through it. Ive accidentally left my old 2203 on with no load for 2 hours once and it was fine. Its not without risk as you could have oscillations or significant hum or buzz but no its not a guaranteed self destruct. I would however have no problem calling it a poor practice
 

neikeel

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Messages
7,339
Reaction score
7,030
I guess they are going with what works - works!
It often surprises me that very experienced people are not clued in about the layout/history spec of really classic amps (Uncle Doug's JTM45 video was another example). Not worrying about filter caps that are working 100% does not surprise or concern me - I will let others do that.
Personally I would want to tidy it all up (even if non-standard split cathode parts etc). I think that the spec he has done it to (late 68/early 69 with original iron is one of the best plexi sounds, tie that in with Mullards front to back I don't think it gets much better.
 

AndyD

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2018
Messages
615
Reaction score
632
Location
UK
Is that reality though? Will my amp actual disintegrate into ash if I forget to hook the speaker up? Is it hyperbole? Overcautiousness? Mesa's tube test video shows the tech running power and standby with no load.
It is very poor practice at the very least. It’s a massive gamble to switch on a valve amp with no load, that’s all there is to it. If you’re happy doing that, that’s fine. People may watch this video and think that maybe it IS ok to switch an amp on unhooked.
 

john l

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Messages
1,098
Reaction score
526
Location
ORANGE COUNTY
I guess they are going with what works - works!
It often surprises me that very experienced people are not clued in about the layout/history spec of really classic amps (Uncle Doug's JTM45 video was another example). Not worrying about filter caps that are working 100% does not surprise or concern me - I will let others do that.
Personally I would want to tidy it all up (even if non-standard split cathode parts etc). I think that the spec he has done it to (late 68/early 69 with original iron is one of the best plexi sounds, tie that in with Mullards front to back I don't think it gets much better.
Im totally with you on not worrying about filters not being 100% in my own stuff and yes these are Steves and Daves personal amps so hey they are more than welcome to whatever they want with them but as big names in the industry and as "influencers" I believe theres a bit of responsibility that one should feel for the info they put out there.

99% of players out there dont their amps in proactively. The vast majority bring them in after something fails and a repair is needed. My mind set is that after an amp leaves me it may be a decade or more before it sees another person who's going give things a check up. I personally dont want to be a part of what brings it back but rather what kept it out in the wild for as long as possible so when I see 40 year old filters I always make a point point to explain that its time for them to go.
 

mark123

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2017
Messages
649
Reaction score
1,277
It is very poor practice at the very least. It’s a massive gamble to switch on a valve amp with no load, that’s all there is to it. If you’re happy doing that, that’s fine. People may watch this video and think that maybe it IS ok to switch an amp on unhooked.
I wonder if there are any actual statistics for the situation? I've gone as far as hooking up the wrong cable and trying to play through it. It had no effect. I just plugged in the cabinet and went back to playing.
 

playloud

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2020
Messages
956
Reaction score
1,202
I wonder if there are any actual statistics for the situation? I've gone as far as hooking up the wrong cable and trying to play through it. It had no effect. I just plugged in the cabinet and went back to playing.

If we're going to get statistical, I think the relevant concept here is expected value. "OT is toast" is a pretty bad outcome in my opinion, even if the probability of that occurring is in the single digits.

I do endorse a global guitar amp census however!
 

AndyD

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2018
Messages
615
Reaction score
632
Location
UK
Another thing I noticed in the video which I found very interesting was this idea of how the phase inverter valve affected the sound according to the voltage that the transformer produces. He mooted the idea that a mains transformer that produced a lower voltage resulted in the phase inverter valve working harder as the output valves ran out of headroom. The resultant sound he described as being more "nasal" compared to a more open sound produced by higher voltages and more head room. This made sense to me as I used to own a Lead and Bass 50w amp which produced 355v on the plates of the output valves. That amp had a characteristic nasal sound when pushed.....a sound that I quite liked! In comparison, I have a Plexi lead amp which is much more open sounding at 430 ish volts on the plates. 100w plexis tend to have even higher voltages on the plates and they are renowned for being open sounding. Do people share this view????
 

Latest posts



Top