Clipping diodes vs boost pedals for hot rodded marshall

[BobVigo]

I have a modded marshall amp: Ceriatone Chupa/CCV variant and curious if folks prefer a boost - TS, EQ, etc - to using Jose style clipping diodes to get the amp into more higher gain territory.

 

[marshallmellowed]

I have a modded marshall amp: Ceriatone Chupa/CCV variant and curious if folks prefer a boost - TS, EQ, etc - to using Jose style clipping diodes to get the amp into more higher gain territory.

I don't like clipping diodes in an amp. I have a JCM 900 2500 with the clipping diodes bypassed. I think the amp sounds better, and I can choose which type of pedal I would want, as far as distortion pedals. The amp actually doesn't even need a distortion pedal, even with the diodes bypassed.

 

[clutch71]

I don't see a difference between clipping diodes or OD pedals as they are esentially doing the same thing. I have several OD's but I use them on a clean channel for light crunch.

I prefer amps without clipping diodes but would never rule out a silver jubilee if the mood struck me. As always, whats most important is what you enjoy.

 

[Maxbrothman]

A hot rod mod is all the gain you can ever need. It is like a DSL. No pedal in front is needed, and if you do add one, it is going to be a boost mostly to tighten it up I would think, so an EQ pedal can do that job also.

If you are not hot rodded then diode clip with an SD-1.

If want diode clipping and tubes in the same amp, then go Jubilee, which sounds awesome.

It is all about matching the pedal to the amp.

 

[Len]

In general clipping diode will result in hard clipping, but using a pedal gives you the option of hard or soft clipping.

 

[Gene Ballzz]

The diode clipping circuit in the BOOST channel of the JTM30 is actually quite pleasing to the ear! In other amps, where it is implemented differently, it can be kind of a crap shoot. The biggest issue I see with "on-board" diode clipping is that you are basically stuck with the same stomp box, FOREVER!
Occasionally Clippin'
Gene

 

[Randy_Lahey]

I don’t know any better so both!!!

I run my JCM900 4500 or 4100 about noon for amp gain, then I shape it further with pedals to get my desired tone. SD-1 gain turned all down gives great classic Kiss tone , Walrus ages on 3 or 4 for the gain type and barely any gain on pedal gives a good heavy metal tone. Etc…. I have 4 od’s and a compressor/sustainer in front of the amp. Seems to work ok for me.

We play all covers though, so trying to swing from Alice In Chains, Motörhead, KISS, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Rage Against the Machine, Judas Priest,Aerosmith, etc…. Obviously, none of them are going to be spot on. But that’s the least of my worries in trying to make my songs/solos like them lol. But the tone definitely gets close enough.

 

[johan.b]

There are plenty of Marshalls with diodes in the circuit..2210/2205 , silver jubilee, jtm30/60 series, jcm900... and people seem to like the Jose style mods... to my ears, diodes always leave artifacts i don't like... but its a taste thing... personally I prefere a clean boost on either nmv amp or 2203. There are plenty to choose from. I got a little diy mu-amp similar to the first generation fulltone fatboost.i can leave it always on and it doesn't change the sound of the amp
J

 

[scottosan]

T

I don't like clipping diodes in an amp. I have a JCM 900 2500 with the clipping diodes bypassed. I think the amp sounds better, and I can choose which type of pedal I would want, as far as distortion pedals. The amp actually doesn't even need a distortion pedal, even with the diodes bypassed.

The 2500 was not a good desogn. Diodes in a properly designed amp sound mich more natural than.pedals to my ears

 

[V-man]

In general clipping diode will result in hard clipping, but using a pedal gives you the option of hard or soft clipping.

This speaks to the heart of the matter. Amps with diodes can produce a great sound… with and without stacking pedals.

The problem is that even amongst a classic amp (2203/4) there is still no true consensus on the best drive, because people’s personal EQs are different as are styles of playing.


The best scenario possible is an amp with diodes and the ability to bypass them from the circuit, that both sounds amazing with them added and without them.

The second best thing would be a tie between diode-driven amp that can bypass the diodes and an amp without them that sounds great on its own.

4th choice is a diode-driven amp that sounds great as is and no bypass option.

 

[ampeq]

This is the only pedal I have ever liked for boosting an amp. https://ceriatone.com/horsebreaker/
It has 2 very good pedals in it and both work very good. (You can also boost one with the other, either way.) I have a Chupacabra and it in no way needs a pedal to bring it to life. The 2 drive stages, MV, 3-way bright switches, and most of all the ERA switch, will allow this amp to bring the house down. The "Pussy Trimmer" on the back can also fine tune the drive. Mine is a 100w unit, but even the 50w one I had first was just incredible to say the least. From the first time I played it I knew I had finally found the amp for me. I also just bought a 100w King Kong, I had Nik wire the drive side like the Chupa. The one thing I would like to add to the Chupa is the boost the KK has in the drive channel. It even has the ERA switch to give you the choice to match what you are using at the time. I'm not sure how much more gain your after but I find most distortion pedals mess with the tone. The Horsebreaker pedal seems to not and both sides are fun to play with. The Blues Breaker side is very nice with my 2202 and ES335.

 

[RCM 800]

I prefer a simple stock circuit and pedals. I can see where having them modded might end up having a quieter chain but you cant hear my amp hiss once the drums kick in anyways lol.

 

[FleshOnGear]

The only amp I’ve ever played with Jose style zener clipping is a Friedman BE-100. I was somewhat underwhelmed by that amp - it has occurred to me that I might have had it dialed in badly or that there was something wrong with it. But I’ve had a lot more success with pedals driving tube amps, and amps that use LEDs for clipping.

I don’t have any issues with diode clipping, as long as it’s done right. Tubes clip, and diodes clip. Tubes clip more nicely, but mixing tubes with diode clipping gets you nearly the same thing. Mixing diode clipping with JFET distortion sounds pretty nice, too. I think it has a lot to do with the gently curved transfer characteristic of tubes and JFETs, opposed to the very linear transfer characteristic of op amps and BJT stages with tons of feedback.

 

[mickeydg5]

I prefer the "mix" of tube and solid state, in processor form with a nice tube amplifier utilizing an effects loop.

 

[RadioAD5GB]

I have a modded marshall amp: Ceriatone Chupa/CCV variant and curious if folks prefer a boost - TS, EQ, etc - to using Jose style clipping diodes to get the amp into more higher gain territory.

My go-to is a rack mounted 2 channel "Real Tube" preamp.

 

[jagrenet]

Being a completely anti-pedal guitar player, I prefer to modify my amps myself, in order to achieve the gain characteristics and voicing that I want. I have never used the Jose diode clipping in any of my mods (yet ... but I will at some point) .... and 100% of my gain increase is all tube and remains controllable. I do however, own a JCM900 which completely ROCKS ..... and for some reason, I don't get any kind of un-natural diode sounding gain out of it - at all. My 900 sounds completely organic and ALL unmolested Marshall, all the way.

 

[FleshOnGear]

..... and for some reason, I don't get any kind of un-natural diode sounding gain out of it - at all. My 900 sounds completely organic and ALL unmolested Marshall, all the way.

I think it might be because the diodes are driven by a tube. It depends on which JCM900 model and year you have, though. Most of the 4100 and 4500 amps have op amps driving the clipping diodes. That said, my 5215 is all solid state, with op amps driving LED’s, and you’d be hard pressed to tell it’s all solid state.

 

[yafal]

Hi all ! I made a lot of DIY amps using the same power source (circa 440 VDC) and speaker tranny from the good old '70s days, all 50 Watt, dual EL34s; among them a Chupa, a Yeti, SLO (only lead channel), an a couple Marshalls, DSL, SLX, 2204, etc. The Yeti, SLO and the 2204 were the ones I liked the most. Yeti has the Jose clipping diodes connected in a very interesting way, after te tone stack, which gives the amp a distinctive tone and feel, plenty of gain, to my ears very hard rock-ish, very '80s; rolling back the guitar pot, cleans up extremely well, very warm, giving that elusive light crunch. BUT when getting close to a metal tone, compressed too much and the round wound strings outweigh too much the other three. Excellent for AC/DC, complex open chords and up, but no metal and palm muting, in my opinion. The SLO lead channel -everybody knows it- is the opposite: tremendous gain and feel, not so "warm" as the Yeti when you roll down volume on the guitar or gain on the amp, but never gets confuse or muddy if you don't overdo the gain, and has no diodes to get its distortion, just a brutal cold clipper... I added two silicon diodes pointing up and two down before the gain pot, which added a lot of gain, but the tone become shrill... didn't like it. Regarding the 2204, I loved it's tone and light crunch, but you have to boost it to enter the hard rock or metal territory. So I tried a OCD in front, which uses MOS FET transistors an a germanium diode to get it's grind, and the combination sounded pretty good, but a little hissy and compressed. Then tried the Legendary Tones mod, adding a 12AX7 and wiring properly, getting a TON of gain, very good tone, classic I'd say, not modern at all.
Resuming: diodes can save the day, but they can sound shrill and/or compressed; in fact, my backup amp, a Marshall MG100DFX, gets its distortion from op amps & leds, one red and one green, sounding surprisingly good, never muddy even with heavy distortion, although it doesn't clean up well and it's very compressed, BUT, curiously, reacts extremely well to palm muting, because of its power amp circuitry, not the preamp.
I'm done searching for "the tone": I'm staying with the SLO clone straight from the guitar (Gibson Flying V) and, for backup, the MG combo: tubes without diodes, and diodes without tubes... go figure !
It's just my experience tinkering, and my humble opinion, with no disrespect for anyone others' opinions whatsoever. Hope it helps.

 

[jagrenet]

I think it might be because the diodes are driven by a tube. It depends on which JCM900 model and year you have, though. Most of the 4100 and 4500 amps have op amps driving the clipping diodes. That said, my 5215 is all solid state, with op amps driving LED’s, and you’d be hard pressed to tell it’s all solid state.

What is "op amp" ???? My JCM900 is a 21xx series. I believe it's a '92 - I think

 

[ampeq]

The only amp I’ve ever played with Jose style zener clipping is a Friedman BE-100. I was somewhat underwhelmed by that amp - it has occurred to me that I might have had it dialed in badly or that there was something wrong with it. But I’ve had a lot more success with pedals driving tube amps, and amps that use LEDs for clipping.

I don’t have any issues with diode clipping, as long as it’s done right. Tubes clip, and diodes clip. Tubes clip more nicely, but mixing tubes with diode clipping gets you nearly the same thing. Mixing diode clipping with JFET distortion sounds pretty nice, too. I think it has a lot to do with the gently curved transfer characteristic of tubes and JFETs, opposed to the very linear transfer characteristic of op amps and BJT stages with tons of feedback.

I find Friedman amps to be kinda dark and to smoothish for me. Try a real Jose modded Marshall or Chupacabra if you get a chance. I really like the ERA switch Nik uses on his. It makes his amps very versatile and a blast to play.