Ceriatone, Getting close.....

[Mjh36]

I hate this amp. Jumped on Reverb and there was a mint KK. Impulse bought it. Fingers crossed.

 

[Zado]

I hate this amp. Jumped on Reverb and there was a mint KK. Impulse bought it. Fingers crossed.

Was it Nik's work or made by someone else AFAYK?

 

[Mjh36]

Was it Nik's work or made by someone else AFAYK?

The ad said it'll be boxed and shipped like it was new from Ceriatone, has the buffered FX loop, footswitch, t-shirt, etc., and everything works, so should be good to go. He recently got it like me, about 13 month wait, played it and wasn't the amp for him and boxed it back up. He's more of a 5150 guy which is cool too. But I can understand, sounds like where I'm at with the AH-100 Deluxe, it's ok just not the amp for me. I'm pretty sure the KK will have more bite and kerrang to it that I want. Plus the lower gain stuff sounds more promising. It'll be here next week and I can do a comparison.

I mentioned earlier that I was hearing something wrong in the amp, something out-of-phase or something. I can't seem to replicate exactly what I was hearing the other night so I think I'm ok. It's sounding fine as far as I can tell. I was just changing so many variables at once I think, removing a capacitor, changing tubes, changing IR's, that I was probably hearing things. It sounded like my IR's were out-of-phase but I checked that. But sounds as normal as it should be now.

 

[Zado]

The ad said it'll be boxed and shipped like it was new from Ceriatone, has the buffered FX loop, footswitch, t-shirt, etc., and everything works, so should be good to go. He recently got it like me, about 13 month wait, played it and wasn't the amp for him and boxed it back up. He's more of a 5150 guy which is cool too. But I can understand, sounds like where I'm at with the AH-100 Deluxe, it's ok just not the amp for me. I'm pretty sure the KK will have more bite and kerrang to it that I want. Plus the lower gain stuff sounds more promising. It'll be here next week and I can do a comparison.

I mentioned earlier that I was hearing something wrong in the amp, something out-of-phase or something. I can't seem to replicate exactly what I was hearing the other night so I think I'm ok. It's sounding fine as far as I can tell. I was just changing so many variables at once I think, removing a capacitor, changing tubes, changing IR's, that I was probably hearing things. It sounded like my IR's were out-of-phase but I checked that. But sounds as normal as it should be now.

The KK is based on the Yeti, which isn't their most bite-y design honestly, it's quite smooth in the upper hand, but I'm no expert about the AH/BE design, so I can't really compare the two kerrang-wise, I guess that as you long as your gain and bright switchs are set properly you can get into good kerrang territory. With gain lowered it sounds very good, that's for sure.
What bugs me is the problems you had with your AH amp, it's very rare to see Nik's build being somehow faulty. Was is directly shipped from him?

 

[Mjh36]

How about posting gut shots of the pedal.

Sorry I missed this, here's a pic of the pedal when I was working on it. Ended up going with a yellow instead of red. I have it all sorted now I believe. Amp is sounding OK, I think I was hearing things when I said it sounded out of phase, or I had something set wrong in my chain I don't know. Playing today it sounds healthy through real cabinets and IR's so I think we are good.

 

[Mjh36]

The KK is based on the Yeti, which isn't their most bite-y design honestly, it's quite smooth in the upper hand, but I'm no expert about the AH/BE design, so I can't really compare the two kerrang-wise, I guess that as you long as your gain and bright switchs are set properly you can get into good kerrang territory. With gain lowered it sounds very good, that's for sure.
What bugs me is the problems you had with your AH amp, it's very rare to see Nik's build being somehow faulty. Was is directly shipped from him?

Yeah I was hearing about the whole Yeti thing on the KK, and I've seen posts that people opted for more of a Chupacabra voice for Channel 2. If I need to go that route, I've looked over the layouts of the Yeti and Chupa and it really is a few resistors and capacitors in one area, I bet I could re-voice it with confirmation from Nik.

Either way, I think it'll be brighter than this BE nonsense. There's also this low midrange you can't dial out. Circuit-wise I'm no expert either, just tinker with pedals etc. I'm thinking even with the Yeti being darker than the Chupa, it's still in traditional Marshall territory. Which I guess a BE is too, but the Yeti/Chupa doesn't have those 500pf plate capacitors that I had to remove on the AH, plus it has bright caps on the gain pots, Friedman doesn't do that either.

I like that the KK has a gain knob on Channel 1 too. The KK is a 2 channel amp, but basically 3 with the Solo and Era switch. But I bought the AH for the even-more featured 3 channel aspect, with channel 3 having it's own gain knob. However, the AH has basically a NMV clean channel, and I like to use a loadbox and record silently at night, but it's hard to dial in good cleans that way. It goes into overdrive almost immediately, which can be a good thing I get it. But with the KK I should be able to dial back the gain and get some decent cleans again.

I never hear of any problems with Nik's amps I know what you mean. I did get the amp shipped straight from Ceriatone. The AH-100 Deluxe is probably one of more complicated of their amps and it's just one wire that was missed. Happens... however when you test it they should've heard that the switch only had two sounds instead of three. And for the footswitch, when we were diagnosing the problem, they actually have those pre-made and get them shipped to them. So technically that wasn't their workmanship on the footswitch. Just so happens that one tiny LED leg touching the inside will make your amp go haywire switching back and forth!

 

[Springfield Scooter]

I have both a Yeti, and a Chupa.
Both 50 watt.
I plan on selling one, imjust not 100% certain which one, as I love them both!
Right now, Im leaning on keeping the Yeti, and selling the Chupa.
Difficult decision!
I plan on ordering one of their 5E3 offerings after that.

 

[Zado]

Yeah I was hearing about the whole Yeti thing on the KK, and I've seen posts that people opted for more of a Chupacabra voice for Channel 2. If I need to go that route, I've looked over the layouts of the Yeti and Chupa and it really is a few resistors and capacitors in one area, I bet I could re-voice it with confirmation from Nik.

Yeah, that's one good selling point when it comes to Ceriatone, you can mod the hell outta em. I still haven't found the need to mod my Yeti, but if I HAD to mod it, I'd make it more abrasive and raw in the upper register.

Anyway, hope you'll have more luck with the KK, as long as you don't compare it to a Cameron Atomica (which is,according to internet rumors, the amp the KK should be somehow designed after, which imho isnt) it should be a very good amp!

I never hear of any problems with Nik's amps I know what you mean. I did get the amp shipped straight from Ceriatone. The AH-100 Deluxe is probably one of more complicated of their amps and it's just one wire that was missed. Happens... however when you test it they should've heard that the switch only had two sounds instead of three. And for the footswitch, when we were diagnosing the problem, they actually have those pre-made and get them shipped to them. So technically that wasn't their workmanship on the footswitch. Just so happens that one tiny LED leg touching the inside will make your amp go haywire switching back and forth!

Yup, any test should have revealed the problem, maybe they're busy AF atm and the thing slipped off. I guess any mortal can do mistakes right?

 

[Mjh36]

I have both a Yeti, and a Chupa.
Both 50 watt.
I plan on selling one, imjust not 100% certain which one, as I love them both!
Right now, Im leaning on keeping the Yeti, and selling the Chupa.
Difficult decision!
I plan on ordering one of their 5E3 offerings after that.

Yeah you just got your Chupa right? What makes you lean that way?

 

[Mjh36]

Yeah, that's one good selling point when it comes to Ceriatone, you can mod the hell outta em. I still haven't found the need to mod my Yeti, but if I HAD to mod it, I'd make it more abrasive and raw in the upper register.

Anyway, hope you'll have more luck with the KK, as long as you don't compare it to a Cameron Atomica (which is,according to internet rumors, the amp the KK should be somehow designed after, which imho isnt) it should be a very good amp!

I got lost trying to figure out the whole Atomica/CCV/King Kong thing. Never heard those besides a few clips. What's the differences?

 

[Zado]

got lost trying to figure out the whole Atomica/CCV/King Kong thing. Never heard those besides a few clips. What's the differences?

Big difference being that Cameron amps usually tend to sound extremely in your face and articulate, maybe too much at times

 

[Zado]

I have both a Yeti, and a Chupa.
Both 50 watt.
I plan on selling one, imjust not 100% certain which one, as I love them both!
Right now, Im leaning on keeping the Yeti, and selling the Chupa.
Difficult decision!
I plan on ordering one of their 5E3 offerings after that.

Personal opinion: if you're in a band, or plan joining one, keep the Chupa as it struggles less when you need to cut. The Yeti sounds better at home tho.

 

[Springfield Scooter]

Yeah you just got your Chupa right? What makes you lean that way?

As you know, the Chupa and Yeti are very similar, so no real logical need for both.
But I purchased both to compare the two, with the full intention of letting one go, after an extended test drive.
I wanted to compare the tone of these two, and also compare the regular loop vs. the buffered loop.
The thought of letting one of these go, is not an easy one, and causes an instant, self inflicted mental depression!
The only cure, is to play both!
Nik should include a disclaimer, pertaining to the addictive tendency of his products!
Id pay $100 an hour, to walk into a local arena / warehouse / showroom, with every Ceriatone amp at my disposal, and play each one at loud volume levels, comparing different tones! I really would!

Personal opinion: if you're in a band, or plan joining one, keep the Chupa as it struggles less when you need to cut. The Yeti sounds better at home tho.

Using "Chupa" and "struggles" in the same sentence is a OXYMORON !
But I totally agree with what your saying!
The Chupa is slightly brighter than the Yeti, so the Chupa would probably excel with a drummer and bass player.
At home, the Yeti is my favorite, I think.
Tough decision for sure.
After 30 days or so, Im still undecided!
Both is the only logical answer!

 

[Zado]

As you know, the Chupa and Yeti are very similar, so no real logical need for both.
But I purchased both to compare the two, with the full intention of letting one go, after an extended test drive.
I wanted to compare the tone of these two, and also compare the regular loop vs. the buffered loop.
The thought of letting one of these go, is not an easy one, and causes an instant, self inflicted mental depression!
The only cure, is to play both!
Nik should include a disclaimer, pertaining to the addictive tendency of his products!
Id pay $100 an hour, to walk into a local arena / warehouse / showroom, with every Ceriatone amp at my disposal, and play each one at loud volume levels, comparing different tones! I really would!



Using "Chupa" and "struggles" in the same sentence is a OXYMORON !
But I totally agree with what your saying!
The Chupa is slightly brighter than the Yeti, so the Chupa would probably excel with a drummer and bass player.
At home, the Yeti is my favorite, I think.
Tough decision for sure.
After 30 days or so, Im still undecided!
Both is the only logical answer!

I'd keep both if possible. Always been curious to hear the two sounding together tho, must be some massive tone show!

 

[FourT6and2]

Yeah, that's one good selling point when it comes to Ceriatone, you can mod the hell outta em. I still haven't found the need to mod my Yeti, but if I HAD to mod it, I'd make it more abrasive and raw in the upper register.

Anyway, hope you'll have more luck with the KK, as long as you don't compare it to a Cameron Atomica (which is,according to internet rumors, the amp the KK should be somehow designed after, which imho isnt) it should be a very good amp!



Yup, any test should have revealed the problem, maybe they're busy AF atm and the thing slipped off. I guess any mortal can do mistakes right?

The KK is not an Atomica clone. The Molecular is. The KK is a two-channel Yeti and appears to be Ceriatone's take on the CCV. I've never heard anybody claim the KK is an Atomica.

 

[FourT6and2]

I got lost trying to figure out the whole Atomica/CCV/King Kong thing. Never heard those besides a few clips. What's the differences?

The Atomica is an amp built by Dave Friedman under the Cameron brand moniker. Cameron was at one point partnered with Friedman and the former owner of Rig-Talk to build production CCV amps and the Atomica. But Cameron reneged on the deal and failed to provide a finished design for the Atomica, so Dave Friedman filled in the blanks and did the rest. The Chupacabra is 99.99% similar to some Fortin mods I've seen. And that work is in turn based on Cameron's Jose mods, which are in turn rooted in Jose Arredondo's work. The KK is kinda Ceriatone's take on the CCV. The Molecular = Atomica copy. Gargoyle = Meshuggah copy. Meshuggah = JCM800 with Jose mod and is similar to the Atomica and Cameron Jose.

They are all essentially the same amp, just voiced differently here or there.

If it were me, I would learn the ins and outs of the circuit, buy a Chupacabra kit, build it myself, and then just re-voice it over and over until I found the combos that sounded the best for my needs. Because there's zero point to owning 5 different amps that are all the same, just with a few resistors and caps swapped out lol. That's all Ceriatone is doing. Change $5 in parts and call it a new amp.

 

[Zado]

The KK is not an Atomica clone. The Molecular is. The KK is a two-channel Yeti and appears to be Ceriatone's take on the CCV. I've never heard anybody claim the KK is an Atomica.

Seen that on rigtalk good it's not true ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Mjh36]

The Atomica is an amp built by Dave Friedman under the Cameron brand moniker. Cameron was at one point partnered with Friedman and the former owner of Rig-Talk to build production CCV amps and the Atomica. But Cameron reneged on the deal and failed to provide a finished design for the Atomica, so Dave Friedman filled in the blanks and did the rest. The Chupacabra is 99.99% similar to some Fortin mods I've seen. And that work is in turn based on Cameron's Jose mods, which are in turn rooted in Jose Arredondo's work. The KK is kinda Ceriatone's take on the CCV. The Molecular = Atomica copy. Gargoyle = Meshuggah copy. Meshuggah = JCM800 with Jose mod and is similar to the Atomica and Cameron Jose.

They are all essentially the same amp, just voiced differently here or there.

If it were me, I would learn the ins and outs of the circuit, buy a Chupacabra kit, build it myself, and then just re-voice it over and over until I found the combos that sounded the best for my needs. Because there's zero point to owning 5 different amps that are all the same, just with a few resistors and caps swapped out lol. That's all Ceriatone is doing. Change $5 in parts and call it a new amp.

Thanks for the info man. I'm going to put your advice to practice. Been building pedals for a little while now and have opened up a couple of amps and done a quick fix or two, but haven't done a full kit yet. I thought I'd order and amp to have and play -- and maybe mod -- then decide on a kit to build. For months now I've been reading/watching what I can about tube stuff, trying to retain little bits of knowledge here and there. My lack tube science and troubleshooting knowledge dealing with tubes is what has been holding me back in case I made a mistake, but I only learn by doing so I should get on it.

Regarding the AH and KK... I have both amps now and they are both pretty good. The KK is closer to what I'm looking for though. I'd ideally like to start with some mods to these amps to get some more experience. I've spent days looking over the AH/Yeti/Chupa layouts comparing them. When I look at the Yeti and Chupa layouts, it looks like the main difference is just the plate and cathode resistors/caps in the preamp.

If the KK is a Yeti on channel 2, can I just swap out the 1uF/3K on the cathode bypass back to .68uF/2.7k-10k? Maybe drop the plates to 330k?
Can I just play with those plate and cathode values and not worry about causing something unwanted down the circuit?

I'm looking for mods that gives more bite/hair/kerrang on both of these amps. I lifted the plate bypass 500pf cap on the AH but it could use some more help too.

Saying that, I got these amps for the channel switching and modern features, but a 1987x with a master volume and a boost might probably be what I am looking for in the end run.

 

[FourT6and2]

can I just swap out the 1uF/3K on the cathode bypass back to .68uF/2.7k-10k? Maybe drop the plates to 330k?
Can I just play with those plate and cathode values and not worry about causing something unwanted down the circuit?

Yep. That's a good place to start. You can go nuts with different cathode arrangements to change the bias of each gain stage. Lowering that plate resistor to 330K is also a good thing to try. Do some research into common combinations/values and what sound they yield.

Slope resistor is another good thing to look at.

So is NFB resistor and depth cap value.

Have fun!

 

[scottosan]

Thanks for the info man. I'm going to put your advice to practice. Been building pedals for a little while now and have opened up a couple of amps and done a quick fix or two, but haven't done a full kit yet. I thought I'd order and amp to have and play -- and maybe mod -- then decide on a kit to build. For months now I've been reading/watching what I can about tube stuff, trying to retain little bits of knowledge here and there. My lack tube science and troubleshooting knowledge dealing with tubes is what has been holding me back in case I made a mistake, but I only learn by doing so I should get on it.

Regarding the AH and KK... I have both amps now and they are both pretty good. The KK is closer to what I'm looking for though. I'd ideally like to start with some mods to these amps to get some more experience. I've spent days looking over the AH/Yeti/Chupa layouts comparing them. When I look at the Yeti and Chupa layouts, it looks like the main difference is just the plate and cathode resistors/caps in the preamp.

If the KK is a Yeti on channel 2, can I just swap out the 1uF/3K on the cathode bypass back to .68uF/2.7k-10k? Maybe drop the plates to 330k?
Can I just play with those plate and cathode values and not worry about causing something unwanted down the circuit?

I'm looking for mods that gives more bite/hair/kerrang on both of these amps. I lifted the plate bypass 500pf cap on the AH but it could use some more help too.

Saying that, I got these amps for the channel switching and modern features, but a 1987x with a master volume and a boost might probably be what I am looking for in the end run.

For more bite or kerrang, rework the depth NFB to cameronize it. Try a depth control like this. You can exclude the 3 way and just solder a 33-39k in series with the 2200pf. As for the the NFB resistor, the higher the value, the brighter/edgier it will be. 100k is a good starting point for a 100w amp