Build a 1987/2204 or get a 1987x??

[Marcus Johns]

Thanks @neikeel i can kind of see what you did there, I see you used the original lead dress layout, I was planning on using the alternate dress method (I’m open to using the original layout if it will be easier, it’s not soo late…) so mine will be on opposite sides. Yep, trying to be conscious of avoiding introducing noise.

 

[neikeel]

If you go for more gain mods the alternative dress is definitely the one to go for (ie Rk lower than 6k8 or if you add Ck on that half of v1.
Mine is a 68 lead spec (V2a bypass, 47k/8ohm NFB and 0.1/5k presence) so the cascade selection is not strictly 2204 but I like it as it is.

 

[Marcus Johns]

If you go for more gain mods the alternative dress is definitely the one to go for (ie Rk lower than 6k8 or if you add Ck on that half of v1.
Mine is a 68 lead spec (V2a bypass, 47k/8ohm NFB and 0.1/5k presence) so the cascade selection is not strictly 2204 but I like it as it is.

Ok, I’m keeping it stock 2204/1987 as per the 2 in 1 layout - no gain mods planned. I was only going to use the alternate lead dress in case I decide later on to do a higher gain mod.

 

[Marcus Johns]

Ok, this is my final layout I’m working off:

 

[denrrou]

Ok, this is my final layout I’m working off:

great amp, do you have videos of it?

also, how many push pulls are there? its not clear how the selection of 1987 or 2204 is done

 

[neikeel]

Only 1 push pull that is the pot that becomes the gain pot in 2204 mode.

 

[denrrou]

Only 1 push pull that is the pot that becomes the gain pot in 2204 mode.

thanks, i am newby to electronics and amp building, but i intended to build a 1987 clone until i saw this post, now i will try to build one based on this one you made. Bought the power, out and chocke by Heyboer and the rest of the 1987 check list from valvestorm site. But for this build i will need some more parts as i can see on the diagram draw

Could you please tell me what type of pot is the first one with 6 wires? its the one that controls the 2204 mode. I am not used to it and i was even wondering it it were a push pull too

 

[neikeel]

It is a dpdt switch mounted on the back of a dual 1M log (audio taper) pot.
I use the one by alpha. It’s diameter is slightly smaller than the jack hole but it comes with skinny washers and if you centre it up on the hole and tighten properly it fits fine.

1M-LOG Push/Pull-Pot DPDT,stereo, suitable for Mastervolume

1M-log, stereo (can be wired in parallel to achieve a 500KA pot), 1/4\" solid metal shaft, solder lug terminals, DPDT Switch Replaces the push-pull…

www.tubeampdoctor.com

 

[denrrou]

It is a dpdt switch mounted on the back of a dual 1M log (audio taper) pot.
I use the one by alpha. It’s diameter is slightly smaller than the jack hole but it comes with skinny washers and if you centre it up on the hole and tighten properly it fits fine.

thanks, ordering it right now

i was confused it i needed 1 or 2 push pull because of this image of the 1987 pot says says "push pull" on that pot, but it should be some error, right?

 

[Marcus Johns]

great amp, do you have videos of it?

also, how many push pulls are there? its not clear how the selection of 1987 or 2204 is done

Apologies, I didn’t see this, I’ve been busy with work as well as waiting for my PT to arrive.

The layout I posted above is the Neil Special, I just modded it for a 50w and added a couple of mods for myself (NFB switch with depth/resonance pot, V2A cathode cap, Larry grounding scheme). The SPST switch you listed above only puts the bright cap on when pulled, the cap is off when switch is pushed in. The 2204 gain pot is a DPDT which switches between 1897 bright and 2204.

I only just received the the PT for this and put it in last week. I’m just in the final testing phase at the moment. I’ll try and get a video and post it sometime in the next week.

I gotta say though, this thing sounds incredible. In 2204 mode it’s a beast! In 1987 mode it has that classic rock sound, beautiful cleans in low gain channel. The master volume works pretty well too at low volumes in both modes suprisingly, I don’t think I’ll bother putting in a PPIMV. The amp is quite to. Only thing left to do is put in a Metro FX loop. I’ll post my voltage chart shortly, hopefully someone can verify all is good for me.

I Highly recommend the Neil Special layout, I love having basically 2 amps in one.

 

[cjs42079]

Pics and vids of this beast pls????!!

 

[neikeel]

Yes, I think that if you are into Marshalls and can only have one amp to cover a lot of ground this would be it. I think your NFB and cap switching are good options too.. I agree that on a 50w the pre-pi mv works well in both modes (I use a smidge of attenuation too), however on a 100w I think that a PPIMV is very useful.
A Metro loop just adds the icing on the cake.

 

[denrrou]

I only just received the the PT for this and put it in last week. I’m just in the final testing phase at the moment. I’ll try and get a video and post it sometime in the next week.

Great, looking forward for the video!

 

[Marcus Johns]

Yes, I think that if you are into Marshalls and can only have one amp to cover a lot of ground this would be it. I think your NFB and cap switching are good options too.. I agree that on a 50w the pre-pi mv works well in both modes (I use a smidge of attenuation too), however on a 100w I think that a PPIMV is very useful.
A Metro loop just adds the icing on the cake.

Yes this is all I’ll ever need in an amp!

What are your thoughts on these voltages, PI node I have 315v, the V1 node I have 275V. Heater volts are a little low, but I’m using the 240VAC tap on the PT and my wall voltage typically sits around 234-236VAC. What are your thoughts?

Bias set at 65%

I’ve also attached the PT specs.

 

[Filthygringo]

I’ve got a question regarding the 50w 1987/2204 for anyone that has experience with building a replica, whether I should build one or just buy a 1987x?

I’ve built two other amps - the first one was a Mojotone 18w TMB (I added a power amp scaling volume control and a switchable ss/rectifier), it’s a nice sounding amp! It goes into a Marshall 1960TV with greenbacks (split to two for the 18w).

My second build was a 5e3 (w/switchable 3-way feedback, a master vol, nos tubes, sozo blue coupling caps, F&T filter caps, Weber 12a125a speaker). Both builds with zero issues - I have 20yrs in an electrical engineering technician job and have a full understanding of electronics, appropriate lead dress, initial testing steps, etc.

I’ve read through the Valvestorm procedure and I’m 100% confident in building tbe 50w. I’m looking at the VS chassis and components, sozo next gen caps and metro amp heyboer transformers.

Not that I really need another amp as the 18w is plenty loud for me, but I’ve always wanted a plexi! I’m looking to build the neil special 2 in 1 - 1987 bright channel/2204 (via a push-pull 2204 gain knob) which should give me the best of both worlds. I’d just like to find out whether this would sound like a genuine vintage Marshall or if I would be better off just getting the 1987x. Price-wise the build is a bit cheaper than a 1987x (not a lot cheaper being in Australia, shipping from the US and our exchange rate is a killer) however it is still a bit of an investment and if I ever decide to sell a home built amp it would be significantly reduced value in comparison to a genuine Marshall.

Let me know your thoughts, cheers.

If you’ve always wanted a plexi….. buy one . Clones are never exact copies. You don’t get the same tone

 

[Benny]

I’ve got a question regarding the 50w 1987/2204 for anyone that has experience with building a replica, whether I should build one or just buy a 1987x?

I’ve built two other amps - the first one was a Mojotone 18w TMB (I added a power amp scaling volume control and a switchable ss/rectifier), it’s a nice sounding amp! It goes into a Marshall 1960TV with greenbacks (split to two for the 18w).

My second build was a 5e3 (w/switchable 3-way feedback, a master vol, nos tubes, sozo blue coupling caps, F&T filter caps, Weber 12a125a speaker). Both builds with zero issues - I have 20yrs in an electrical engineering technician job and have a full understanding of electronics, appropriate lead dress, initial testing steps, etc.

I’ve read through the Valvestorm procedure and I’m 100% confident in building tbe 50w. I’m looking at the VS chassis and components, sozo next gen caps and metro amp heyboer transformers.

Not that I really need another amp as the 18w is plenty loud for me, but I’ve always wanted a plexi! I’m looking to build the neil special 2 in 1 - 1987 bright channel/2204 (via a push-pull 2204 gain knob) which should give me the best of both worlds. I’d just like to find out whether this would sound like a genuine vintage Marshall or if I would be better off just getting the 1987x. Price-wise the build is a bit cheaper than a 1987x (not a lot cheaper being in Australia, shipping from the US and our exchange rate is a killer) however it is still a bit of an investment and if I ever decide to sell a home built amp it would be significantly reduced value in comparison to a genuine Marshall.

Let me know your thoughts, cheers.

Build the Ceriatone 2204. Not a difficult build and fairly faithful to the original. upgrade caps, trans etc if you feel it's worth it . I added a PPIMV which I found quite useful. The amp sounds great.

 

[David Rivers]

I’ve got a question regarding the 50w 1987/2204 for anyone that has experience with building a replica, whether I should build one or just buy a 1987x?

I’ve built two other amps - the first one was a Mojotone 18w TMB (I added a power amp scaling volume control and a switchable ss/rectifier), it’s a nice sounding amp! It goes into a Marshall 1960TV with greenbacks (split to two for the 18w).

My second build was a 5e3 (w/switchable 3-way feedback, a master vol, nos tubes, sozo blue coupling caps, F&T filter caps, Weber 12a125a speaker). Both builds with zero issues - I have 20yrs in an electrical engineering technician job and have a full understanding of electronics, appropriate lead dress, initial testing steps, etc.

I’ve read through the Valvestorm procedure and I’m 100% confident in building tbe 50w. I’m looking at the VS chassis and components, sozo next gen caps and metro amp heyboer transformers.

Not that I really need another amp as the 18w is plenty loud for me, but I’ve always wanted a plexi! I’m looking to build the neil special 2 in 1 - 1987 bright channel/2204 (via a push-pull 2204 gain knob) which should give me the best of both worlds. I’d just like to find out whether this would sound like a genuine vintage Marshall or if I would be better off just getting the 1987x. Price-wise the build is a bit cheaper than a 1987x (not a lot cheaper being in Australia, shipping from the US and our exchange rate is a killer) however it is still a bit of an investment and if I ever decide to sell a home built amp it would be significantly reduced value in comparison to a genuine Marshall.

Let me know your thoughts, cheers.

if times not an issue and you want to save some money do the build, ..but if you want to get right to playing and dive into it..then just buy the 1987x

 

[nasticanasta]

I’ve got a question regarding the 50w 1987/2204 for anyone that has experience with building a replica, whether I should build one or just buy a 1987x?

I’ve built two other amps - the first one was a Mojotone 18w TMB (I added a power amp scaling volume control and a switchable ss/rectifier), it’s a nice sounding amp! It goes into a Marshall 1960TV with greenbacks (split to two for the 18w).

My second build was a 5e3 (w/switchable 3-way feedback, a master vol, nos tubes, sozo blue coupling caps, F&T filter caps, Weber 12a125a speaker). Both builds with zero issues - I have 20yrs in an electrical engineering technician job and have a full understanding of electronics, appropriate lead dress, initial testing steps, etc.

I’ve read through the Valvestorm procedure and I’m 100% confident in building tbe 50w. I’m looking at the VS chassis and components, sozo next gen caps and metro amp heyboer transformers.

Not that I really need another amp as the 18w is plenty loud for me, but I’ve always wanted a plexi! I’m looking to build the neil special 2 in 1 - 1987 bright channel/2204 (via a push-pull 2204 gain knob) which should give me the best of both worlds. I’d just like to find out whether this would sound like a genuine vintage Marshall or if I would be better off just getting the 1987x. Price-wise the build is a bit cheaper than a 1987x (not a lot cheaper being in Australia, shipping from the US and our exchange rate is a killer) however it is still a bit of an investment and if I ever decide to sell a home built amp it would be significantly reduced value in comparison to a genuine Marshall.

Let me know your thoughts, cheers.

I owned the fist reissue that didn’t have the fx loop, great amp, I didn’t hear favor for the ones with the fx loop. I’ve since moved to ENGL,

 

[sri]

I’ve got a question regarding the 50w 1987/2204 for anyone that has experience with building a replica, whether I should build one or just buy a 1987x?

I’ve built two other amps - the first one was a Mojotone 18w TMB (I added a power amp scaling volume control and a switchable ss/rectifier), it’s a nice sounding amp! It goes into a Marshall 1960TV with greenbacks (split to two for the 18w).

My second build was a 5e3 (w/switchable 3-way feedback, a master vol, nos tubes, sozo blue coupling caps, F&T filter caps, Weber 12a125a speaker). Both builds with zero issues - I have 20yrs in an electrical engineering technician job and have a full understanding of electronics, appropriate lead dress, initial testing steps, etc.

I’ve read through the Valvestorm procedure and I’m 100% confident in building tbe 50w. I’m looking at the VS chassis and components, sozo next gen caps and metro amp heyboer transformers.

Not that I really need another amp as the 18w is plenty loud for me, but I’ve always wanted a plexi! I’m looking to build the neil special 2 in 1 - 1987 bright channel/2204 (via a push-pull 2204 gain knob) which should give me the best of both worlds. I’d just like to find out whether this would sound like a genuine vintage Marshall or if I would be better off just getting the 1987x. Price-wise the build is a bit cheaper than a 1987x (not a lot cheaper being in Australia, shipping from the US and our exchange rate is a killer) however it is still a bit of an investment and if I ever decide to sell a home built amp it would be significantly reduced value in comparison to a genuine Marshall.

Let me know your thoughts, cheers.

With your stated experience and available documentation and critical parts it should be a doddle. Way back when I made a similar move up to 50/100W clones I used Ceriatone layout pictures and publically available schematics (Ceriatone pics were great for a priven layout and lead routings). Over here in England, shopping with Modulus Amplification, Ampmaker when they did parts, and ebay it was about half the cost of a real Marshall but I wanted to do the building as much as I wanted the amp so did not worry about resale values. As for how it and subsequent ones sounded. I had no trouble selling them for good money so they must have been ok. The one thing I would say though is either get competant at making and covering cabinets or buy a ready made amp because good cabinets can cost a bomb and are so important on the finished product's saleability.

 

[neikeel]

It is interesting that the four posters above have quoted the OP but do not seem to have read (or at least acknowledged that they have read the thread and its development and results, odd!

BTW voltages are about right, ideally get your heaters to 6.3 which will raise the other voltages by 5% if you want but I would not sweat it.