Answer me this. If Leo Fender were so smart, why did he not utilize Humbuckers??

RLW59

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2017
Messages
1,317
Reaction score
1,829
I really don't get these "I hate single coils" threads myself. I'm mainly a Strat guy, but I love my Gibson electrics as well..Both types of pickups have their place IMHO, it's all part of the palette..:cheers:

FWIW, my Les Paul is at least as noisy than any of my Strats are, if not more so..Probably due to the higher output of the humbuckers. It would seem my buckers don't stop the hum so good after all..:lol:
There are different types of noise that can be induced into the signal.

If you put a neon sign into your mancave you should notice a dramatic difference between humbuckers and single-coils. If not, something's wrong with your humbuckers.

Unless of course your Strats have Lace, EMG, Fender Noiseless, Kinman pickups or some such.
 

Matthews Guitars

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2019
Messages
7,189
Reaction score
11,965
I don't "hate" singlecoil pickups, but I can never get an overdrive tone out of them that I actually LIKE. Not in more than 35 years of playing has that ever worked for me. Other players may get tones out of them that I like, but when it's my hands on my guitar, no, it just doesn't work. Not with singlecoils.
 

Frodebro

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 14, 2014
Messages
5,036
Reaction score
7,385
Location
Seattle
Who cares about Leo and pick ups. If it wasn't for the Bassman there would be no Marshall.

Please, No disrespecting of the Leo.

The first Mesa/Boogies were hotrodded Princetons. And the best Fender can come up with on their own is the Supersonic…
 

tallcoolone

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
3,339
Reaction score
7,030
Location
NH
When I was admittedly tonally immature, I wouldn’t touch a single coil because of the noise. Now that I care about and understand tone and dynamics, I much prefer single coils.
Ha--I knew everyone who disliked single coils because of noise was tonally immature and ignorant about tone and dynamics!
 

DaDoc

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Messages
5,203
Reaction score
7,838
Location
Rancho Deluxe, Montana..3rd stone from the sun
There are different types of noise that can be induced into the signal.

If you put a neon sign into your mancave you should notice a dramatic difference between humbuckers and single-coils. If not, something's wrong with your humbuckers.

Unless of course your Strats have Lace, EMG, Fender Noiseless, Kinman pickups or some such.
I have fluorescent overhead lights in there, do they count? They do obviously contribute to a certain amount of noise from my rig.

My '63 has two of the original pickups, the bridge is a '68, and all three were rewound at Gruhn's before I bought it.

My mid-80's '62 Reissue pickups are totally stock.

My two '70's Strats both have aftermarket pickups, my '74 has Lindy Fralin Vintage Hots, and my '75 has Fender Custom Shop '57/'62's.

But they're all pretty much based on stock pickups though, no Lace or noiseless stuff.

All my Strats are pretty quiet, but I have to add that the two 70's ones were fairly noisy when I first got them back in the early 80's..And they didn't have all that much power, either! At least not compared to my '63 and Reissue.
 
Last edited:

tallcoolone

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
3,339
Reaction score
7,030
Location
NH
The first Mesa/Boogies were hotrodded Princetons. And the best Fender can come up with on their own is the Supersonic…
I had a Prosonic back in the day that wasn't a bad amp at all. I liked the dirt channel and I was really into Boogies at the time. But hey, Mesa's been trying to design something Marshally for decades. Nothing wrong with staying in your lane I suppose
 

tallcoolone

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
3,339
Reaction score
7,030
Location
NH
Singles, humbuckers, filtertrons--all iconic. I've overpaid and waited too long for examples of the first two.

Need them all, scratched the Filtertron itch last year with this beauty:

full
 

TheLoudness!!

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2010
Messages
1,040
Reaction score
435
Location
East TN
Like them or hate them, those guitars being laughed at and called "boat oars" in the early '50s sure did catch on.

Those Tele Deluxes could be had with humbuckers in the early '70's. Maybe earlier??
 

BRMarshall

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2014
Messages
269
Reaction score
401
Location
Rural southeastern Ohio
I read a book a couple summers ago,”The Birth of Loud.” It is sort of a dual biography focusing on two very different men who each made significant contributions to music, especially guitar related, during the 2nd half of the 20th century. The introvert radio repairman tinkerer and the extrovert musician innovator. It’s a very interesting and easy read.
 

Whatwhatringrang

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2022
Messages
237
Reaction score
287
Fender absolutely knew of the reverse wound /reverse polarity single coils humbucking thing by mid 50s. Stringmaster lap steels(not the telecaster type pickups but duo sonic pickups in the lap steels). The ones with multiple pickups and necks .They had black tele knobs and black covers. Pickups rwrp in those. Wound hot. I have the pickups outta those guitars and confirmed the rwrp in mid 50s. However I am unsure if they where wired in series or how they where unfortunately. For sure the 56 Fender duo sonic where wired in series rwrp for great sound in middle position . Hum bucking and hum canceling. Cool as you get the higher harmonics from the bridge and lower fundamentals from the neck being space far apart.

Those where 1956 thru early 64 . Again the two pickups rwrp of to each other . Maybe even earlier than 56 like 55 on string master pickups. Like I mention for sure the 1956 the duo sonic pickups in middle position where humbucking rwrp single coil use middle position was in series. Why never used on strat who knows be they where aware of this and doing on those other models.

Most stock ones the two pickups I have had are slightly hotter on the bridge . So kinda slightly mismatched so the mid position sounds imo better than a far spread at the expense of a weak bridge. Pretty close like 100 ohms apart mostly stock on those. Those lap steel flat poles where hotter than strat pickups and you can just careful fit strat covers on them. Because they have so much wire on them compared to a typical strat pickup.

I think those champ lap steels and duo sonic pickup where fenders best. Along with the early Jag pickups after you take the claw off . Used purple wire and most where rwrp to each other . Those are amazing pickups also reverse wound reverse polarity . Not sure it those where series in middle and probably not . Also the Jags had reverse polarity wound pickups I believe .

The duo had the series middle position in 56s and amazing with the scale. I can not figure out why more people did not ever use that sound. As it is Really something atleast to me. Other than some of quirks of the model which I like except for bridge and tuning thing on a lot of them to me.

I wish they put a different bridge on those old duo’s as that is its short coming. If you can adjust to short scale they sound huge and fat if you adjust to playing it like a regular scale. I think it has something scale length in relation to pickup position with the 24th fret harmonic. Puts in in a cool freq range maybe.

Leo and company was a genius . He definitely knew about the rwrp thing in mid 50s. I always like Fender guitar tone and it seems to record very well always . Seems to bring a very personal thing to someone’s sound or rig . To get a lead sound it take more effort from amps or rig. To me translates into a more personal sound . Much better for a playing rhythm guitar to me and can do everything. Just what I think. Yes I was raised on Fenders lol. I like them all including the other pickups mentioned previous in thread.
 
Last edited:

brets9

Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2016
Messages
38
Reaction score
30
Location
Auburn, CA
more like: if Leo Fender was so smart why did he design a guitar that only allowed for one way to adjust the trust rod. Lets see...remove the strings, remove the neck, estimate the adjustment, remount the neck, restring the guitar. Repeat if necessary. Round and round we go. This forced us quick pickin'/fun strummin' trailer park dwellers to hack a gaping hole in the pickguard so that a screwdriver could access the base of the neck to make an adjustment. It seems that most fellers are just too lazy to do it your way Leo. My favorite guitar? The Stratocaster. Just like Jeff Beck. RIP..
 

Gunner64

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2013
Messages
8,467
Reaction score
13,603
Location
Midwest, USA
Speaking of the Duo Sonic, My first "name brand" guitar was a '61 Fender Duo Sonic. Paid $200 for it and a 1962 National Val Verb 2x10 combo. That was 79 or so. Man how I Wish I still had them.

It was a case queen, not a mark on it or the case. Had the ashtray cover as well.
 

RLW59

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2017
Messages
1,317
Reaction score
1,829
As far as not putting a RW/RP middle pickup on the Strat...

When prototyping the Strat, Leo tried lots of different switching options. He chose the 3-way switch because he thought the 2&4 positions sounded terrible and that no one would ever use them. So he saw no point in complicating logistics by having a different pickup in the set.

I'm not aware of anyone recording the "in-between" sounds until Clapton's first solo album in 1970. (Some people think they hear it on Jimi's "Little Wing" and "Gypsy Eyes", but to me that just sounds like the layered tracks interacting, especially with the Leslie track on "LW" and the tape flanging on "GE" -- but either way, long after Leo sold the company.)
 
Joined
Nov 30, 2022
Messages
20
Reaction score
46
And did you know that he only had one eyeball??


220px-FGF_museum_01._Leo_and_early_models.jpg
Yes, Leo was one of the smartest guys I ever met! And Yes, we all knew he only had one eye. So what? He was also very, VERY hard of hearing too, did you know that? In fact, I believe part of the reason he preferred the sound of single coils during his tenure at Fender, was the brightness and clarity of those single coil pickups. (Aka, they were easier for him to hear...) Because Leo REFUSED to wear hearing aids! Later, when he started G&L did you know that his very first G&L guitar model came with 2 Humbuckers? It was called an F100. I know because I worked with Leo on it. See the attached picture: (I'm the guy on the left with the bad hair cut. Fun fact: Forrest White took that picture :) )

Me&Leo.jpg
 
Last edited:


Top