1st time out with the 1987x

[purpleplexi]

When I first got my 50watt I couldn't understand why when I hit a pedal the darned thing got quieter. In the end I just used to guitar volume control but for the OP I don't think that would work.

 

[paul-e-mann]

Anything I put in the loop of this amp doesn't sound good. Not even just a simple delay pedal. Putting anything in the loop of this amp sounds a little like putting a timed based effect out in front. Also.. putting any kind of clean boost or EQ pedal in the loop hoping to get clean volume boost only increases the gain. I have several other marshall amps and other amps and none of them react like this amp. It seems that the most common question posed by Plexi owners who play live is "how do I get solo boost?". Its the perfect amp for a 1 guitar band. For instance.. if I was to play Angus Young in an AC/DC tribute band or Paul Stanley. From what I read.. it has something to do with how much signal is fed to the phase inverter. Because the Plexi is at full tube saturation very quickly its very nearly impossible to get solo boost from the loop. Not even sure why Marshall would even make this amp with a loop. Its the reason I didn't purchase one back when they didn't have a loop. I needed one so I bought a Soldano SLO100 instead but always wanted a plexi. When Ibought this one I didn't try the loop. I assumed since it had one.. it would operate like all my other serial effects loops on my amps. I then had it modded with the MV which killed my warranty and when I stuck my Morley Lil Alligator volume pedal in the loop I was surprised to find out that the only thing it controlled was the amount of gain which is completely the opposite of how it reacts with any of my other amps. I then tried my LPB1 cleana boost and all it did was clip my signal. I tried my Spark and my MXR Line Driver. Same thing. I tried my Boss GE7, same thing. Gain increase but NO volume increase. Thats when I started researching online and found out that this is the most common problem for owners of this amp that need solo boost live. I still love the amp but it will be forever at home and in the studio. It's not useable live.

I had the same problem with an AC30 head so I returned it. Not all loops are created equal, I have other amps with loops like you that work the way I want. The only thing I can think of is have your tech relocate the loop in a different position in the circuit so you get volume boost. Meanwhile as I previously suggested, set your lead volume and gain on the amp and use an EQ pedal to cut volume for your rhythm tone.

 

[marshallmellowed]

Im gonna have to try it on mine and see.

It doesn't work. You can alter the EQ, of course, but you cannot get a volume boost if the amp is set to around 5 or above (no headroom left).

 

[marshallmellowed]

It doesn't work. You can alter the EQ, of course, but you cannot get a volume boost if the amp is set to around 5 or above (no headroom left).

This guy makes it work for him by switching inputs, but I don't hear much of a volume boost.

 

[Crikey]

It doesn't work. You can alter the EQ, of course, but you cannot get a volume boost if the amp is set to around 5 or above (no headroom left).

My 87x has a Metropolous effect lopp added to it, least thats what the former owner mentioned. Im gonna try it out. But i also run another amp that could be set for lead boost

 

[marshallmellowed]

My 87x has a Metropolous effect lopp added to it, least thats what the former owner mentioned. Im gonna try it out. But i also run another amp that could be set for lead boost

It's pretty much dependent on the power section. If the power section is saturated, it won't matter what kind of loop the amp has, you've hit the limit and there's no more "volume" to be had.

 

[Crikey]

The OP stated that his loop wasnt working for his effects. Mine works fine with my effects and with the amp driven.

 

[marshallmellowed]

I don't and thats pretty funny. I just spent $3000 for this amp, $250 for the Hot Mod 2 and another $250 for the Lamar MV mod.

How are you controlling the volume of the amp, with the added master volume? If that's the case, you're not running the amp wide open and you could add a circuit to bump the master a few db for a volume boost. That, or you could add a lower cost attenuator with a foot-switchable bypass, knock off a few db for rhythm, then bypass for a volume boost.

 

[marshallmellowed]

The OP stated that his loop wasnt working for his effects. Mine works fine with my effects and with the amp driven.

Yes, his amp is modded with a master volume, not the stock configuration. No telling what's gong on with his loop.

 

[marshalled]

I bought last week a bad cat unleash on reverb, for solos is the only solution, there is a toneking ironman 2 but have only 3db for solos (can be actived by footswitch).

with larmar or other post phase inverter mod you can try a eq with level pot or if you have a loop like 1987x eliminate the mod and try 2 ehx signal pad pedal with 2 different level (1 for rith 1 for solos),

with larmar you exploit the preamp valve (gradually increase the larmar volume the output valve too)...the signal pad ehx it' very similar to larmar...you can try on 1987x not modified and do your choice.

 

[marshallmellowed]

I bought last week a bad cat unleash on reverb, for solos is the only solution, there is a toneking ironman 2 but have only 3db for solos (can be actived by footswitch).

with larmar or other post phase inverter mod you can try a eq with level pot or if you have a loop like 1987x eliminate the mod and try 2 ehx signal pad pedal with 2 different level (1 for rith 1 for solos),

with larmar you exploit the preamp valve (gradually increase the larmar volume the output valve too)...the signal pad ehx it' very similar to larmar...you can try on 1987x not modified and do your choice.

The Unleash is the best solution I've found also. I'm sure the Ironman would be good also, but it's a bit too pricey for what it is (IMO).

 

[purpleplexi]

I thought the toneking was 6db?


Edit - just checked 3 or 6db. Would've thought 6 would do it.

 

[maico996]

That, or you could add a lower cost attenuator with a foot-switchable bypass, knock off a few db for rhythm, then bypass for a volume boost.

This is another excellent idea. I think the JohnH attenuator can be built with a bypass option? @Gene Ballzz would know...

 

[jgcable]

Probably not what you want to hear, but… to get in-your-face solo boost with a 1987x, you’ll want to add a re-amper. I use a Boss TAE and it absolutely does the trick, it preserves that righteous, saturated Marshall plexi tone, but adds a footswitchable solo boost, studio quality effects and a great switchable effects loop, line outs, audio interface, IRs, and much more. And, it can deliver that tone at bedroom levels as well. The best gear purchase I have made in the past 3 years is a Boss TAE.

I looked into that Boss Waza TAE. That would certainly do the trick. What sucks is spending $3000 for an amp and another $500 for the Hot Mod V2 and the Lamar MV just to find out in order to be able to use it live I need spend another $1300 for the Boss TAE!
Total bummer but it is what it is!

 

[marshallmellowed]

I looked into that Boss Waza TAE. That would certainly do the trick. What sucks is spending $3000 for an amp and another $500 for the Hot Mod V2 and the Lamar MV just to find out in order to be able to use it live I need spend another $1300 for the Boss TAE!
Total bummer but it is what it is!

You don't need to spend $1300 to get a volume boost, unless you just want or need the other features of those $$ devices. See my comment about a simple -6 db attenuator that you could bypass via footswitch.. Shouldn't cost more than $50 to build one, including the cost of a footswitch (or have someone else build one).

Assuming you already have your band volume where you need it, this, with the footswitch bypass option, would do the job...

MASS Lite 100w Attenuator – Weber Speakers

www.tedweber.com

 

[JamminJeff]

last night I had my first rehearsal with my 80's metal hair band using my new reissue 1987x with the Lamar MV and a Legendary Hot Mod 2 though an old Marshall 1960B cab loaded with Celestion T75's and V30's in an X pattern. The only things I had on the floor was a Boss SD-1, an MXR Black label Chorus and an MXR Phase 90 which were all plugged directly into the front of the amp. I had the loop switch pressed to bypass. My guitar was a 1998 Gibson Les Paul Studio loaded with EMG's. My sound was legendary. Easily the best high gain Marshall tone I have ever gotten. I had the high treble knob on 7 and I only kicked the SD1 on for a few spots where I needed more gain. Absolutely outstanding tone. We were doing Twisted Sister, Judas Priest, Whitesnake etc.
This rig would be my rig of choice live. I didn't even miss not having delay. Nothing works in the loop of this amp so I just bypassed it. Anyway.... It was outstanding. A little noisy but nothing that my MXR smart gate can't handle. The best Marshall high gain guitar sound I have ever gotten.
I did have one big problem that will not allow me to use this dream rig live. No solo boost. My guitar solo's just didn't cut through. Could barely hear them. If this was a 1 guitar band I would say I could get away with it but not with a 2 guitar metal band. I need easily around 4-6db of clean volume boost for guitar solos.
I tried clean boosts in the loop. Nope. I have 2 buddies that use Plexi's live and they have great solo boost but they plug into the normal low gain channel and set their amps up basically clean and they use a distortion pedal and put everything out in front. I just don't see the point because you aren't hearing the plexi. You are only powering the stomp box distortion. There is nothing better than cranked plexi gain.
Total bummer.

That's a great report. Those experiences are just fantastic to be in.

Since you're 99% of the way there, why not just add a boost pedal. Try a few clean and a few that have a little color. Maybe even look into a buffer pedal with adjustable clean boost. A few buffer pedals even have a mild drive/boost. Even a mild transparent drive with the gain down and the volume up could give you that extra boost to get on top of the band for a solo, etc.

Good luck with your new hair metal band. Should be barrels of fun !

 

[solarburn]

I looked into that Boss Waza TAE. That would certainly do the trick. What sucks is spending $3000 for an amp and another $500 for the Hot Mod V2 and the Lamar MV just to find out in order to be able to use it live I need spend another $1300 for the Boss TAE!
Total bummer but it is what it is!

Fryette PS2 is $800. It all adds up man. However I'd consider the PS2 or those like it invaluable overall and in situations like yours.

I feel your pain. Solutions here can be frigging expensive!

 

[Crikey]

I was wrong and stand corrected, my 1987x does NOT allow eq boost in effect loop that can provide volume increase.
In my MV amps an eq does provide a whole lot of good with volume boost.

 

[MickeyS]

Until you figure out how to resolve the issues you have (getting a Boss TAE, boosts, etc), tell your sound man to goose you for the solos. Give him a set list, mark the songs you play leads on, and go from there. But, you are relying on a sound man to make it happen,so that could go either way. Or, do what the guy from Dirty Honey does, if you have another amp, run it with an aby pedal and kick that in for solos. He uses a 1987x for his main tone, and kicks in a Jubilee along with the 1987 for the solos. That may not be an option for you (having a second amp, or one that would work in that application) but if you can do that, it'll work great. I just got a 1987x, and shortly before that I got the Boss TAE, and I can vouch for that setup being fantastic, and would resolve your issues, while adding a ton of other options.

 

[Mystic38]

You don't need to spend $1300 to get a volume boost, unless you just want or need the other features of those $$ devices. See my comment about a simple -6 db attenuator that you could bypass via footswitch.. Shouldn't cost more than $50 to build one, including the cost of a footswitch (or have someone else build one).

Assuming you already have your band volume where you need it, this, with the footswitch bypass option, would do the job...

MASS Lite 100w Attenuator – Weber Speakers

www.tedweber.com

Indeed not, JUST for a solo boost, but the TAE gives you an actual post amp fx loop...and a whole lot more imo the sum of its parts is far above the cost of the whole, and all in all, the TAE was the best $1200 I have spent on my guitar gear..