# Randy Rhoads gear discussion



## dreyn77

How close are you guys trying to get to the original?
Are you going to get a 1980 JMP or is the 1959RR close enough?
would you rip the black vinyl of an original?
you getting the 2 (or more) full stacks? 
how about white quadboxes? black tape?

what guitars are essential to your collection?
if you get the blonde LP are you going to engrave the pickguard?

What about the hoaxed pedal board? U going to make one? 
I've never seen a spanish classical guitar like RR's, anybody know what it is? I've only seen picks of the guitar from the back.

would you make stuff from scratch? how close would you make it?

cheers.


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## gjohnson

Hoaxed pedalboard?? As in fake?What do you mean?


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## dreyn77

why would 50+ look at a one post discussion? 
_____? (a question that is NOT typed so YOU can't read it! YOU have NO idea what it says. HAHAHA! I'm laughing at YOU! HAHAHA!) 
would YOU like some more of these???????????????? 

"____________" (a thought about you and your mates, hahahhaha! you have NO idea! and NEVER WILL! hahahhah.........and on and on it goes!)


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## SwampThing

gjohnson said:


> Hoaxed pedalboard?? As in fake?What do you mean?



He's talking about Randy's supposed "Haunted" pedal board. He had it custom made but as the story goes right up until his death the board would malfunction and short out.

Supposedly Bernie Torme tried using it a few months after Randy Died and the thing wouldn't even work for him


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## SwampThing

As to answer your question Dreyn, Randy is without a doubt one of my favorites. Tone wise? I don't think he found HIS tone. He left us way too early But I can say I prefer his ' Diary' tone as opposed to Blizzard. Which is weird because I prefer the songs on Blizzard as a whole as opposed to Diary.


My next goal is to procure a 70's LP custom and a JMP stack. Doesnt have to be white w/ Altec lansings. But close enough


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## dreyn77

I know what you mean and I agree with everything you've said!
the blizzard songs are 'easier' to play, but the tone had room for improvement. 
Diary was a 'full upgrade', and we are very lucky to have that recording. 
His pedal board looks like it would take a long time to make one.
It looks complicated.
If you had all the pedals how would you arrange a pedal board?
would you add in other pedals like a phaser etc...

I lucked into a 70's LP custom, they are very expensive, I don't think I would have one normally. 

I see his pedal board had a on/off switch for the wah (seperate from the wah)
Do you use a 'loop' pedal to get this feature? 
I find I can't get the wah tones with the standard 'built in' switch.


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## AlvisX

Saw Him w/ OZin '81
Liked the Les Paul . I've had 2 of those white Customs ...still got one 
Didn't / dont like the tone too much ,except the solo on Over The Mt.
Did he use a Dist + with it ON all the time ?

I like the "booby trap" pedalboard ...I think I have one of those myself


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## dreyn77

I think the dist+ was on most of the time 'live'. In the studio i think maybe not. 
when he played live (with the castle backdrop) and did the song 'over the mountain' he used the white concord flying V. I have a VHS tape of live shows. 
It sounds like the super distortion pickup on the album version.

does your cream LP have an out of phase humbucker pickup?


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## AlvisX

dreyn77 said:


> does your cream LP have an out of phase humbucker pickup?



No, Im not really a fan of the out of phase sound , but I do Have split coils on both pickups. I think the single bridge coil is out of phase when the neck pickup is in humbucking mode . But I rarely play both pickups anyway


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## dreyn77

I have a 70's LP and the bridge pickup is wired for parrallel humbucking and it only has 2 wires from it. this makes the sound of both neck and bridge 'out of phase'. 
I wonder if this type of pickup was in all 70's LP customs? But if you guitar isn't like that, then I think it was a random 'pickup by chance' situation. unless someone changed the bridge pickup on my guitar. 

Do you remember seeing randy with unusual guitars during the live show in 81? was he using the dean flying v?


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## dreyn77

Just spent the afternoon playing along to Ozzy Osbourne. 
the 1959RR on cascade, high input, loud volumes, gets really brutal and sharp. 
the dist+ makes the sound blurry or 'fuzzy'. (that's why it was labelled as 'Fuzz'). 
(it adds in a second squarewave note to any note played, fattening the sound) 
BUT it also thins the sound and makes a unique 'growl' to the distortion on the 'low notes'. (mixed with the already unique distortion of the cascade mod)

the treble notes jump out of the speakers with more force. the wah notes fly out and are dangerous! (crybaby? they are punishing notes, I'm crying!)
The EQ pedal is needed to restore some body in the tone. the 'mids boost' setting, does that very well.
It's a very unique sound and it's not possible to get by any other way. 
'tribute' is recorded accurately.


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## SwampThing

Honestly the only song I think he used the Dist+ was on Crazy train. CT has a tone to itself that is definately not the same as the other standout tracks.

I'm fully convinced the "brittleness" from Blizzard comes from his speakers. I've heard cover bands, friends and even seen Zakk play Randy's stuff and unless EVERY one of them ( I Know Zakk uses custom EVM) were using altecs....


Alvis that's amazing you saw him live. I feel I was born in the wrong decade..


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## SwampThing

Dreyn I'm surprised you havent heard about Randy's "haunted" Pedal board, google it and you'll hit some interesting stuff.


On a side note- one of the coolest pictures I've seen is a picture of his mother Delores sitting with his flying v in her lap. It was a GW article done a few years ago.


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## dreyn77

yeah I've seen that pic. I like it how she goes to the marshall unveiling and other shows. 
I like it how the family support the cover band. that guy has two full stacks, I saw on utube a while back.
I'll try the google but my computer is way too old for the latest web sites. 
I think he was using the 'un affected' inputs on his JMP for the blizzard tones, with the MXR dist+. this way you can turn the amp down and get a good distortion. just a theory, but it does get close.


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## dreyn77

there is a double live Ozzy LP that was released maybe 2 years ago.
I think it's called 'The live show', and features Randy Rhoads.
I asked the boss of the show and he didn't know anything about it.
It's $50. 
Have you heard it? 
I thought it might be a repackaged 'tribute'. 
It has a 'limited edition number' on it aswell.


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## Söulcaster

dreyn77 said:


> I like it how the family support the cover band. that guy has two full stacks, I saw on utube a while back.



that's Randy's brother singing,,,,,,, all I'll say is Randy got ALL the talent.


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## AlvisX

SwampThing said:


> Honestly the only song I think he used the Dist+ was on Crazy train. CT has a tone to itself that is definately not the same as the other standout tracks.
> 
> I'm fully convinced the "brittleness" from Blizzard comes from his speakers. I've heard cover bands, friends and even seen Zakk play Randy's stuff and unless EVERY one of them ( I Know Zakk uses custom EVM) were using altecs....
> 
> 
> Alvis that's amazing you saw him live. I feel I was born in the wrong decade..



Yeah, the speakers.......if only he'd used 65s .....tone is forever 

It was a Sunday night at the Aragon Ballroom (brawlroom) in Chicago ,1981. Maybe the Sunday before I graduated from high school. The even cooler thing was ......Motorhead was the opening act


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## gjohnson

I saw Randy in Jan 82 on the Diary tour.Ironic that a "Blizzard" got the stage set semis stuck in the mountains so there was no castle.As a young aspiring metal guitarist he blew me away!I remember watching in awe as he took command of the stage w/that cool looking white Jackson.Sadly 2 months later he was gone.I also remember the Tshirt vendors had more RR shirts than Ozzy.


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## shooto

my Edwards "Randy Rhoads" LP Custom...pickguard is not engraved

I ply it through a '78 JMP...

the practice pedal board he had (and hated) was a Zeus pedalboard made from different components


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## dreyn77

That's some nice gear you have!
Is that RR's EQ tone settings on the MXR 6 band?
I liked the utube audio clip where Randy's giving a lesson and the kid remarks about randy's guitar being all scratched up. Randy says "those are my scratches, I've worn this guitar in".


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## SwampThing

AlvisX said:


> Yeah, the speakers.......if only he'd used 65s .....tone is forever
> 
> It was a Sunday night at the Aragon Ballroom (brawlroom) in Chicago ,1981. Maybe the Sunday before I graduated from high school. The even cooler thing was ......Motorhead was the opening act




Amazing! I've watched just about every youtube vid of Randy playing, I can't even fathom seeing him live.

Motorhead opening? That's living right there.


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## SwampThing

shooto said:


> my Edwards "Randy Rhoads" LP Custom...pickguard is not engraved
> 
> I ply it through a '78 JMP...
> 
> the practice pedal board he had (and hated) was a Zeus pedalboard made from different components





Beautiful dude!Equally impressive is the Opeth poster in the background


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## Cold Warrior

shooto said:


> my Edwards "Randy Rhoads" LP Custom...pickguard is not engraved
> 
> I ply it through a '78 JMP...
> 
> the practice pedal board he had (and hated) was a Zeus pedalboard made from different components



Seeing cool, obscure things like this is why I come here. 

I dream of having a custom white Marshall halfstack eventually. I've already got a semi obsession with his work with Ozzy (and I've done a few instrumental covers of those tunes in my studio), if I had gear very close to his, I might be forced to start a tribute band.


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## diesect20022000

honestly I think it's redundant. he liked his little champ style amp and a handful of boxes. he only used marshalls because they were en vogue and the only thing that got your at that time required volume levels and HATED them (and his marshall tone reflects his love for them imho because while I LOVE Randy, his marshall tones were monumentally BAD).

He didn't much care for Ozzy or black Sabbath either. So if you want HIS tone you have to go back to his quiet riot days with the little shitbox champ style amp he loved so much and forgo the shalls entirely.

but again I love Randy. his writing and approach are apparently similar to mine and I didn't know that until about two years ago when I started listening to him and yeah I really like his playing and phrasing and I think he was a very tactful and thoughtful shredder. Tone was ass with the marshalls though. sounded like a dirt box can of bees through a broken transistor amp.


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## diesect20022000

yeah I said it. I am okay with people that like the tone too etc but I didn't. it's funny too because I love his playing and I love marshalls but it just goes to show that tone is in the ear of the beholder. one mans trash is another mans treasure and all that horseshit.


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## Bflat5

Some of what is being said here is kind of a contradiction to what Randy actually said in spoken interviews. There's quite a few recordings floating around the net.

His original practice pedal amp was found under his bunk on the tour bus when it was being cleaned out after the accident and after the rest of the band moved on from it. It found it's way on ebay 7 or 8 years ago. They held on to it all those years and decided it was time to try and cash in on it. It caused such a commotion amongst fans the seller closed the auction and returned it to Mrs. Rhoads. A lot of the people that bid on it said they'd return it if they bought it, just to make sure it ended up where it should.

As for his rig, there's one interview where he breaks it all the way down to the speakers in his cabs. As much as I love his playing and the music he left us I really wouldn't recreate the tone.


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## diesect20022000

Bflat5 said:


> Some of what is being said here is kind of a contradiction to what Randy actually said in spoken interviews. There's quite a few recordings floating around the net.
> 
> His original practice pedal amp was found under his bunk on the tour bus when it was being cleaned out after the accident and after the rest of the band moved on from it. It found it's way on ebay 7 or 8 years ago. They held on to it all those years and decided it was time to try and cash in on it. It caused such a commotion amongst fans the seller closed the auction and returned it to Mrs. Rhoads. A lot of the people that bid on it said they'd return it if they bought it, just to make sure it ended up where it should.
> 
> As for his rig, there's one interview where he breaks it all the way down to the speakers in his cabs. As much as I love his playing and the music he left us I really wouldn't recreate the tone.


 yep this exactly. Randy+LEGEND. Randy TONE+pewp.

i'm not the most polite in my terminology but it's my opinion and clearly no disrespect to him as a person or player. He's one of my biggest (tiny man) influences.


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## managainstcatfish

I made the pilgrimage a couple of years ago. San Bernardino is right down the hill from me. Randy was THE reason I started playing as a kid. THE reason. I heard the live version of Crazy Train (that RIFF!!) & immediately bought a $20 Harmony electric from another kid at school. I was obsessed with that shit, & to this day, Diary is probably my all-time favorite metal album. Tribute was on CONSTANT rotation for years & years.
BTW, Shooto? Between the Paul, the Opeth poster, & that badass "power of the riff" sticker, Ima hafta buy you a drink, man. You gots TASTE, dude.


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## Mosher Zone

I'm not big on Randy's sound either but sometimes I think it was the way it was recorded cause Maiden pretty much used a similar setup with the Distortion+ plus etc & i'm not big on their earlier albums sound either but any live recordings I've heard are great but I've not heard a lot of Randy's live stuff.


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## managainstcatfish

Thanks to this thread, I decided to post an old cover I did of Diary Of A Madman. I started a new thread in The Cellar. It's a bit different from the original. Try not to rip me a new one if you think it sucks.


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## Dogs of Doom




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## gjohnson

I think his tone on the Diary album is F#CKN KILLER!!


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## dreyn77

I wonder what he was thinking when he came up with that tone.

When I hear the utube 'lessons' it sounds like Randy was directing his playing but it also sounds like the amp was effecting his playing. 

The sounds he had were quite complex. 
It sounds like the flanger was set for a high frequencey flange, almost a phaser.


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## dreyn77

Anybody been to Musiconia? Anybody seen Randy's music gear up close?
What did that guy from tesla do with the Autographed Les Paul from the utube clip where he meets Mrs Rhoads?


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## rupe

A few things:

1. It wasn't his practice amp (Champ) that caused the sh#tstorm on Ebay...it was that little Zeus practice pedal board pictured earlier in the thread. The "owner" claimed that it was given to him by somebody at the scene of the accident. Unfortunately, there was nobody at that scene with the authority to do such a thing (I never bought that story anyway).

2. Randy claims in a recording of a seminar done in Greensburg, PA shortly before his death that the Dist + was on all the time during the live shows. If you look at the After Hours videos, he's plugged into the first input...I've yet to see any vids or pics of him using the modded channel.

3. There is a lot of hate for Randy's tone, but the tone you hear on the albums is not his tone. Max Norman ran his guitar through some piece of outboard gear (I can't recall what it was) that gave it that fizzy, harsh character. Listen to any of the live bootlegs floating around out there and his tone is huge...nothing like what you hear on the albums. Unfortunately Norman was hired to do Tribute and messed with those live tones as well...listen to the original recordings and there's a big difference.

4. I doubt the eq settings on the practice board are a true representation of he set it live since they were effecting two very different rigs. That said, it could be close as Randy stated that he used the eq to boost his mids.


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## Cold Warrior

rupe said:


> A few things:
> 
> 1. It wasn't his practice amp (Champ) that caused the sh#tstorm on Ebay...it was that little Zeus practice pedal board pictured earlier in the thread. The "owner" claimed that it was given to him by somebody at the scene of the accident. Unfortunately, there was nobody at that scene with the authority to do such a thing (I never bought that story anyway).
> 
> 2. Randy claims in a recording of a seminar done in Greensburg, PA shortly before his death that the Dist + was on all the time during the live shows. If you look at the After Hours videos, he's plugged into the first input...I've yet to see any vids or pics of him using the modded channel.
> 
> 3. There is a lot of hate for Randy's tone, but the tone you hear on the albums is not his tone. Max Norman ran his guitar through some piece of outboard gear (I can't recall what it was) that gave it that fizzy, harsh character. Listen to any of the live bootlegs floating around out there and his tone is huge...nothing like what you hear on the albums. Unfortunately Norman was hired to do Tribute and messed with those live tones as well...listen to the original recordings and there's a big difference.
> 
> 4. I doubt the eq settings on the practice board are a true representation of he set it live since they were effecting two very different rigs. That said, it could be close as Randy stated that he used the eq to boost his mids.



Randy's live tone is what inspires me the most. The general production of his studio albums with Ozzy was very weak (especially the drums), although the remasters helped quite a bit.


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## dreyn77

I don't think randy was 'locked in' to any specific gear. He had lots of varied gear. 
It's just fun to try and recreate what he'd done. and talk about it.

the recordings vary widely with tone because they were recorded from different locations. the bootlegs are good for the 'sound you here when standing near the amps'. there is alot more bass, mids etc...
Tribute is the sound of what the speaker is actually doing. It's bright, 'thin' and trebley. 
If you hear all the gear for yourself, the sound is really fat and full. 
But if you flip the switch to the neck pickup, this 'gives away the secret' of the actual 'thin' sound....
Shear volume 'lies'.
This 'false' fat sound is what you get when you play 'active' pickups, in the metal style.
Metallica/Megadeth etc... play with the same sound as Randy's 'false' heavy base sound. 

Compare Buddy Guy's 'active' tone to Santana's 'passive' tone, when they played together in Montreux.


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## dreyn77

Randy's bass dial was only on 1/4. 
this gave his sound the charateristics of 'active' pickups. 

If he had all the dials on '5' or '10' he could have used the neck pickup as well. and he probibly wouldn't have had trouble hearing himself.


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## jeffro

I really do like these discussions because I can never get enough information about him or his gear, but I always find myself just wishing Randy Rhoads was actually here today to shut all the tone pros and gear experts up with the answers to all of our questions. It kinda reminds me of the dude during the seminar that interrupted and told Randy he was using "false harmonics". If Randy moved all the settings on all our perfectly tuned tone rigs, we would simply sit in awe and just watch him play. I think his tone was perfect for what it was then and now. I can't even imagine what he would sound like today.


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## dreyn77

I think he would have gotten his degree. and gone back to LA, pos started his own band or gone back to Quiet Riot, but that would have been a giant step backwards if he did that move. They would have to go up to his level but I don't think Kevin would do that.
I think he'd have his own 'hand picked' music band that would have made a new type of music. 

I think he would have left marshall in the late 80's and he might have played EMG's or a Seymour equivelent. 
I think he'd be friends with Satriani, and maybe Vai. 
I think Ozzy would have followed him round for a few years longer. There would have been a long break inbetween touring if they did tour. There would have been one more album with ozzy. 
I think he would have done lots of guitar teaching/ lesson videos.


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## jeffro

You may be right on leaving Ozzy. I just read some of the reviews from the first US Blizzard tour on the Rhoads forum and the press was really pretty brutal on the whole band; even Randy to some degree. I can't imagine what it must have been like to read those reviews after leaving home and a loyal fan base with QR. You get the impression from his seminar tape that Randy was a pretty humble guy despite his incredible talent.


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## damienbeale

Mosher Zone said:


> I'm not big on Randy's sound either but sometimes I think it was the way it was recorded cause Maiden pretty much used a similar setup with the Distortion+ plus etc & i'm not big on their earlier albums sound either but any live recordings I've heard are great but I've not heard a lot of Randy's live stuff.



^ This

I don't think we're really hearing what Randy's choice of tones were like, because quite honestly, the production on both albums is utterly crap.
Even the drums sound like cardboard.

Hard to judge anything because of it.


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## dreyn77

Ozzy complained about SATO. He said it went out to other people to put it together, while they went on the road.
You can hear its got instruments that the other songs have in the middle of the mix, but SATO has them on the outside of the mix. (far left and far right) and Vise Versa. It's 'back to front'. 

Over the mountain is unusual with it's different tuning to all the other songs.


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## keennay

I'm not a fan at all of Randy's live tone other than what I hear from the _After Hours_ clips on YouTube. In fact it's his tone from _After Hours_ that I aim towards replicating.

Here are my amp settings:


*Blizzard of Ozz Tone:*

1976 Marshall JMP 2203 w/ EL-34's (Bright cap clipped off)
1969 Marshall 1960a cab with pre-Rola Greenbacks
MXR ZW-44 Overdrive pedal

*Diary of a Madman Tone:*

1976 Marshall JMP 2203 (before I clipped the bright cap)
Newer Marshall 1960a cab with G12T-75's
MXR ZW-44 Overdrive pedal


I never got the chance to try an MXR Distortion+ pedal, but I'd have to say I got much closer to a Blizzard of Ozz tone after clipping off the bright cap on my JMP (which was done for other reasons). The only other cab I tried was one filled with Vintage 30's, but I couldn't get a tone I liked through them. I have a set of 1982 A & B cabs with Marshall branded G12-65's coming in soon, so I'd be able to make a better comparison between cabs then.


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## keennay

SwampThing said:


> Honestly the only song I think he used the Dist+ was on Crazy train. CT has a tone to itself that is definately not the same as the other standout tracks.



Yep, I too noticed almost every track in Blizzard of Ozz must've used either a drastically different EQ setting, different amp (out of Randy's 3 or 4 JMPs), or a different cab speaker setup. Did he even use cabs filled with Altec speakers to record the first album?

For example, listen to how the rhythm track during the Steal Away solo slightly changes in tone at 11.5 seconds, besides the fact a 2nd guitar track was added making it sound fuller. Sounds to me like Greenback speakers were thrown into the mix... but all that's speculation.

[SC]https://soundcloud.com/keennay/the-night-01[/SC]


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## rupe

keennay said:


> I'm not a fan at all of Randy's live tone other than what I hear from the _After Hours_ clips on YouTube. In fact it's his tone from _After Hours_ that I aim towards replicating.


That IS his live tone. Tribute, like Blizzard and Diary, had Max Norman's fingerprints all over it. After Hours and various live bootlegs are the true representations of his actual tone.



dreyn77 said:


> Over the mountain is unusual with it's different tuning to all the other songs.


How so?  The entire Diary album was simply tuned down a 1/2 step (Blizzard was standard) but as far as I can recall, there was nothing special or different about Over the Mountain.


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## dreyn77

It's only 1/4 down in tuning when you play along to the song. Wolf marshall pointed out it's in a different key.


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## dreyn77

Randy was definitely useing a phaser while playing in Quiet Riot.
This pedal must have been dropped for the Ozzy years.
I bet it was MXR brand, phase 90.

Some of the flangeing sounds from 'the randy rhoads years' were from studio tricks. the delays are quite long in duration time and could've been added in the studio (but not 'laughing gas' delay sound) 

Does anybody know how RR made the 'laughing guitar' sound? 
It sounds like 'flange' and 'wah'.


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## dreyn77

Check out the Thai guy playing the 1959RR on utube. (the background looks like a shop)
THe amp is NEVER turned up! when he uses distortion its a pedal doing it. 
BUT you can totally hear the sound is unmistakable 1959RR. 

If you compare this sound to the UTUBE Yjm or the AFD, you can hear those amps are not even close to the RR. (or the RR is not close to the yjm or afd)

Even when I play the clean setting on the amp, it still sounds like the amp.

It's as if the amp leaves a fingerprint in the sound, that can't be changed.


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## dreyn77

Check out the video clip of Guns and Roses 'paradise city'. behind slash's rig is a wall of white 1959 somethings that look VERY similar to the 1959RR. 
Does anybody know who the band was that had them?


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## dreyn77

THe superdistortion pickup gets the blizzard of oZ tone without the distortion+ pedal. 

Same great warm mids (no bass) with fat notes, without all the fizzy blurry crap added to the signal. 
WE can go back to operating the amp as the maker intended! (setting the dials makes perfect sense again, instead of turning frequencies up and down at uneven settings)


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## blues_n_cues

something that never gets mentioned when discussing Randy's tone live is the Echoplex. the EP has a preamp of it's own to boost the amp. the Xotic EP boost pedal is based on that circuit.
Xotic Effects EP Booster Guitar Effects Pedal | Musician's Friend

another is the MXR 10 band eq that was on all the time.
it was the old blue hardwired one w/out an on/off switch.

as for the Dist+,the newer ones won't do it. it's the old pre 80's circuit that had the creamy sound as compared to later when Dunlop bought them out & installed the indicator light.

the ultimate decider was his hands. Randy had a way of almost flanging chords w/ his palm rests,picking, & fingering. you can hear it no matter what recording or rig he played through.

saw him in Feb. of 1982 myself-


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## dreyn77

Yeah I can hear that 'flanging' in the sound and it's definitely not the pedal. 
I can hear the Quiet Riot guys added some delay to the 'RR the quiet riot years' recording.


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## rupe

blues_n_cues said:


> something that never gets mentioned when discussing Randy's tone live is the Echoplex.



I would assume that's because he didn't use an Echoplex. He got his delay from a Roland Space Echo. I've heard that he used some sort of Korg unit at times as well, but I've never seen any pics and I don't recall reading any interviews where he mentions it.

In the studio, MN used an AMS 1580 on Bizzard and a Lexicon 240 on Diary.


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## blues_n_cues

rupe said:


> I would assume that's because he didn't use an Echoplex. He got his delay from a Roland Space Echo. I've heard that he used some sort of Korg unit at times as well, but I've never seen any pics and I don't recall reading any interviews where he mentions it.
> 
> In the studio, MN used an AMS 1580 on Bizzard and a Lexicon 240 on Diary.




all those old tape units had preamps. Echoplex was a general term but they all alter & boost the tone to an extent.


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## A4100K

Right after the drum fill at the beginning of the song when Randy slides down the neck and busts into the main riff you can't tell me that that isn't kick ass loud as hell Marshall Randy Rhoads tone at its best. Sounds like the guitar stage volume would melt you face. Love it.Over The Mountain- Ozzy Osbourne/Randy Rhoads (Live Albuquerque, New Mexico) Video - YouTube


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## damienbeale

A4100K said:


> Right after the drum fill at the beginning of the song when Randy slides down the neck and busts into the main riff you can't tell me that that isn't kick ass loud as hell Marshall Randy Rhoads tone at its best. Sounds like the guitar stage volume would melt you face. Love it.Over The Mountain- Ozzy Osbourne/Randy Rhoads (Live Albuquerque, New Mexico) Video - YouTube



Tone at it's best?

I don't know how you can tell through the mess of that awful sounding clip.
Remind me not to buy any hi-fi gear from you...


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## A4100K

damienbeale said:


> Tone at it's best?
> 
> I don't know how you can tell through the mess of that awful sounding clip.
> Remind me not to buy any hi-fi gear from you...


Ya the clip is awful sounding but you got to remember this was 1982 and recorded with some pos beta handheld. You can kinda hear what it would have sounded like. If you were there I bet you would have been blown away.


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## dreyn77

I still enjoy RR's tone but I'm curious to why the scratched amp faceplate dial markings? 

He put so much thought into the sound and pedals that you would think he'd remember the dial settings and not need to scratch them on the amp.

Would YOU be blown away if RR was using the strat and a ibanez jetdriver pedal to get that sound? back then? 

How much of what you like, is 'the Fashion' of RR? 

Blown away? it depends on where you are standing! I've analyzed too many tones man, I'm no longer blown away! 
What he did with the sound was truely remarkable! 
you need to think about the reason for the notes and concentrate about that! people still don't have any idea what he was doing and trying to achieve. 
The music today is like 2 levels (in quality) below RR's and it's not getting any better! 

Concentrate on the 'space' (no sound) in the music and reproduce 'That'. Re issue the spirit of Blizzard and Diary!


----------



## Grenade

Ozzy said Randy's pedalboard sounded like a "chip pan". English for deep fryer. In other words, noisy as hell.


----------



## dreyn77

Yep! perfect voltage! 
Gotta love noisy amps!  

he still turned it down and got more amps. why?


----------



## dreyn77

I was just playing a long with the recording from Quiet Riot. 'The Randy Rhoads years'. 
I was playing the 1959RR amp with the 1976 LP custom and when I heard the song 'Breaking up is a heartache' the main riff of the song matched the LP into the modded channel really well. It makes me think this 'reamping' technique the guys used actually worked. (unless someone played it in secret)
The amp had the same RR settings as RR too. 

SO if you want a track that has a sound to compare your gear with, its 'breaking up is a heartache' track 7. 
from this sound the mxr pedals are clicked on and the sound goes thin, fuzzy and scorchy. (because I'm using the 90's dist+, I rold the guitars vol down alittle and it sounds closer to the recording sound of RR's solos.) 

I also tried the multi amps sound version too. except I used the marshall combos to hear if it gets a more complex marshall tone and it does! 
I think if you want to get the 'live in cleveland' 1981 RR sound, then you'll need a JTM amp in the mix. 

I was using the 5010 and the JTM30. this sound was quite complex and the warmth to the sound was very evident. 
The chorus sound, sounded more pronounced with the 2 amps that have different tones. 

What a blast it is to play along with RR!


----------



## dreyn77

I was actually playing along to 'Diary' last night and I matched the JTM30 amps vol to the stereos vol and then I had to brighten the treble sound from the amp, while using the distortion humbucker. 
NO pedals were in use.

The HBer needed the amp trebles to be full power. the mids needed to be half power and the bass neded to be 1/4 power. 
the amp had too much gain so it was set at 3/4's power. 
I had the amp's reverb at halfway. 
It was a great sound to play along with the stereo. it matched perfectly, note for note, sparkle for sparkle, scorch for scorch. 

but it only matched 3 songs. the other songs were recorded using another guitar. 
SO I used the other guitar. I changed the amps settings, added bass and removed treble and there was a similar sound, but not quite right. it was lacking some scorch for the solos. 

when I went back to the SD pickup the sound matched those songs very accuritely. grind for grind, sparkle for sparkle. 
WOW! confusing huh?


----------



## dreyn77

Looks like this is the RR look a thon.

you won't learn by remote. 
looks like TV and commercialism and retail shops has had more impact than you thought. 
Unless you 2000 people have busted keyboards. ? 
The nurses came back to the USA slightly later than the army did from WW2 and they were greeted by a few nurses with cups of tea/coffee. 
.
.
*
(oh that's SO depressing! for the nurses. but it looks like nothin's changed)


----------



## dreyn77

The question was asked "Did I buy the speakers?" 
Well there's no point in doing that. 
RR's guitar most likely dictated how he eq'ed the amp. 
I feel it was a outof phase bridge pickup. that meant it only gave him 4 useable sounds. the guitar couldn't be used in the typical manner, because 3 of the useable sounds were with the neck pickup only selected. 
So once RR EQ'd the amp to make the bridge pickup have a good sound, the neck pickup made 3 unuseable sounds. this meant he had one great sound, and if he wanted more, pedals were needed. 
once the amps Eq's were less than half power, it made the speakers EQ irrelevant.

This also meant Gibson needed to reEQ the pickups on the signature model. so guys could have a tone control on the bridge and middle positions. 
The japanese gave guys the scorching tone in their flying V limited editions so you don't need the pedals or the 'had to find' gibson pickup. Making a copy of the gibson out of phase pickup would be totally silly for a new guitar issue. That's why they boosted the humbuckers output.

Your 800 amp types should get you really great RR sounds, just put the amp on the dial settings and use original 800 era speaker/s the G12 70.


----------



## Tone Slinger

I was SO into RR's sound back in the early/mid '80's. I read EVERYTHING I could and listened intently. 

I IMMEDIATLY struck up a relation to RR's tone with JUDAS PRIEST and IRON MAIDEN. I realized that a Distortion box and an eq box were what distinguished these tones (along with sometimes filtering a wha). In other words, the amps 'basic preamp structure' was altered as compared to the 'NORMAL' REO Speedwagon and 38 Special type guitar tones of that day. I feel that those Altec speakers (not sure of the exact model #) were of fairly big importance to Rhoads getting that extra girth and projection to his sound. 
It would be so refreshing to hear someone use that tone today. I guess its considered 'un efficient' nowadays.


----------



## Dogs of Doom

dreyn77 said:


> The question was asked "Did I buy the speakers?"
> Well there's no point in doing that.
> RR's guitar most likely dictated how he eq'ed the amp.
> I feel it was a outof phase bridge pickup. that meant it only gave him 4 useable sounds. the guitar couldn't be used in the typical manner, because 3 of the useable sounds were with the neck pickup only selected.
> So once RR EQ'd the amp to make the bridge pickup have a good sound, the neck pickup made 3 unuseable sounds. this meant he had one great sound, and if he wanted more, pedals were needed.
> once the amps Eq's were less than half power, it made the speakers EQ irrelevant.
> 
> This also meant Gibson needed to reEQ the pickups on the signature model. so guys could have a tone control on the bridge and middle positions.
> The japanese gave guys the scorching tone in their flying V limited editions so you don't need the pedals or the 'had to find' gibson pickup. Making a copy of the gibson out of phase pickup would be totally silly for a new guitar issue. That's why they boosted the humbuckers output.
> 
> Your 800 amp types should get you really great RR sounds, just put the amp on the dial settings and use original 800 era speaker/s the G12 70.


From my understanding, Ozzy would only let him use the bridge pickup. According to Jake, during the recording of the 1st Badlands album, he said that Ozzy was so anti-Iommi's use of the neck pickup, that he wouldn't let him use it at all...


----------



## dreyn77

Youtube. namm randy rhoads tribute concert. theres 6+ vids of guys to watch. I did today but the internet cafe has been infected with the 'pause' viaris. as the vid plays it stops for 20seconds every 20 seconds. I gave up and took home my latest guitar. 
Warning these youtube clips might get you playing RR stuff again. 
It did for me! 
my latest guitar has P94's and they gave me very warm tone. 
no need for the pedals. GREAT!
when compared to the 70's gibson custom pickups, they sound bassy and bright and slightly fatter/duller than the P94's. 
The only problem is they both have the letter 'N' stamped on the bottom. I guess that's 'neck'.?
I can tell they are not original to the guitar. do you know if a 'gibson' logo should be stamped on the base plate of the P94 pickups? the wire from the back is red. Do you know what brand they might be if not gibson? The chrome edge cover is really well plated. 
Cheers!

they should sell copies of the RR namm tribute show. 
I'm SO sick of going to the shop and there is NOTHING new for sale.


----------



## dreyn77

I think that would have been an issue with jake, but not so much randy. 
Randy dropped the phaser and almost dropped the flanger from the QR days. 

I guess you guys missed the white amp going full pelt at namm this year.?


----------



## mtm105




----------



## LAARS

guys I'm kind of coming to this late, but there is a lot of stuff going on for guitar in those songs. Anyone ever notice the country riff in crazy train coming out of the verse, just before ozzy sings mental wounds. I laughed my butt off the first time I noticed it. Every song has stuff like that. Its like going over songs by Jimmy Page. The more you listen to it, the more stuff you'll hear. 

Randy was one of my favorites growing up.


----------



## dreyn77

Gibson 490 into low input on 800 amp. full gain, RR settings. And that's all I'm sayin!

Angry.

That's the angry tone that the 800 lacks. What a quick and easy way to get that tone. and it's adjustable.


----------



## dreyn77

Seymours quarter pound pickups are the reverse of what you might think they are. big magnets and tiny winds. which means it's low impedence. so it gives you the pedal tone change effect without the need to plug into pedals.
Also the fender supersonic guitar humbuckers are opposite PAF pickups. plug them into the lowinput and you get typical PAF sound. 
So there is only 2 pickup choices, vintage strat single coil or PAF but PAF and all the rest of the pickup models for sale are just EQ sound effect changes. 

So pickup choice is; one coil or 2. full power/tone or something less than that. how much extra boost you want at the guitar's volume dial/s.
So if EQ consists of 'bass mid and treble and all combinations of the 3 sounds. there is only a maximum of 9 possible sounds plus on/off.

Jeff Becks noiseless guitar into the JCM 2000 DSL 100. All 9 possible sounds times 4, plus 2 reverbs, plus deep boost and scooping EQ tone effect. 

The widest maximum efficient sound/tone at all vol settings plus atmosphere enhancing reverb. 
Jeff wins! (but Iommi has the biggest!)


----------



## dreyn77

But the good thing about Randy's settings is he knew how to get the sound from the amp.
the sound that is designed for guitarists.

The amp is set low and it's set for great voltage and it's set for 'room to move'. ie, it can get more treble if needed.
With a VH setting you can forget that feature. the amp is maxed and it's not going to get louder from that position.

Randy's EQ pedal adds a fair amount of 'gain' to the sound and some warmth in the fully treble setup sound. (but it is not as loud as it could be) the 100 watts is adding the loudness, just because of it's shear size.
The dist + adds some blurryness and some interaction with the EQ and the wah sound (the extra trebles that normally wouldn't be available) This is also where the amps low setting allows for the increases in sound. If the amp was set for a louder sound, that increase in frequencies that the wah makes wouldn't be heard. 

From these settings the wah pedal has full dynamic range available for the user when any pickup is selected. 
The range of MXR pedals compliment a big treble setting so there is no sound issues there.
this amp setting and pedal setup has the maximum ability to listen/pickup all string sound. including swipeing fingers along the strings, harmonics are also super loud and easily heard. this is incredible since the pickups are not boosted (i'm using the custom LP pickups from the time)

everything you play and do with pedals is heard extremely well. 

As far as electric guitar making voltage and that voltage being turned into something which makes great sound, its an extremely great sound. 
Everything works and everything is larger than it's suppose to be. 
I can't say that of any other guys tones. 

But it is a sound that's got full illusion of great bass and mids in the sound when you stand next to the big amp. 

The stereo sound recording doesn't do justice to the great big amp sound. the big amp sound is making that sound we hear on the recording. 
It's super difficult to imagine but he's using the treble pickup and the amp has big treble setting and the MXR Dist+ is heavyily boosted into the treble regin, yet we hear heavy bass comming from the modded 100 watt amp. 

He has a full treble sound that sits on top of the band and can be heard and everything that he does to the strings is heard too. all the pedals have maximum impact with no 'dead spots' in the sound spectrum. 
not only that, but the player gets great inspiration to play more and play faster or slower and to use effects because it all sounds so good etc... 

You'll find other big name guitarists have to get product made because they can't use the original gear because of the way they setup the signal path. 

No such problems with RR's setup.
A great lesson learned from walking in RR's shoes! Cheers!


----------



## dreyn77

Well guess what?
Good ol SuperDistortion pickup given to our friend Mr Rhoads is actually suppose to be plugged into the low input channel.
It actually give the illusion of more gain and tone but if you listen carefully it's adding a 'digital breakup' to the distortion sound. If you plug it into the low input channel it sounds like a blurry slightly bigger PAF type distortion, while using the RR's settings. 

Randy was suppose to turn the gain way down when useing the superdistortion pickup. it's way too powerful with RR's settings and has monster hiss in the sound at the point he switches to the polkadot flying v in the tribute show. 

The sound has big blurry breakup distortion/ loss of string vibration and extra massive power because the signal is almost digital from the superdistortion pickup. 

when RR plugs in the carl flying V, he's actually doubled the gain and the tone and lost signal. 
The superdistortion pickup provides the tone shift (illusion of more tone power) and the illusion of more gain that pedals offer but you don't need the pedals. 

It's no wonder songs on diary have that unique distortion breakup to the sound. 

The JMP amp takes that signal from the superdisappointment pickup and fuzzes the treble and gives more gain and the perception of a warm sound. 

 

Oh well now we know what happens to the signal. 
And why nothing else sounds as extreme as RR's sound. 

Looks like Mr Duncan's been helping Mr Mustain....


----------



## Tone Slinger

The Altec speakers 'voiced' the whole of Randy's tone. They are hard to find and unique sounding. Randys tone wasnt 'Straight dimed amp tone' like say Early EVH......there was that processed thing, ala Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, etc. Like mentioned, the D+ and the 10 band Eq boosted the SHIT out of Randy's Marshalls. You hear a difference in his LP (T-tops, A5/8kish output) and his Sandoval V (Super D's,ceramic/14kish output) moreso by those two guitars construction. The '73 Custom has a 24-3/4 scale with Mahogany neck, whereas the Sandoval V has a 25-1/2 scale Maple neck(rosewood board, its a Danelectro neck). The V, regardless of pu, is gonna sound different, though the Super D certainly gave his rig more gain/noise.

V on S.A.T.O and LP on 'Tonight'. Basically the same amp set up but the V has more high end clarity and the LP has that nasal 'honk'.

Once the actual Amps (English Marshalls with El-34's NOT the American 6550 imports) and pedal chain (MAINLY a D+ and a 10 band eq) are set up right, the MOSTimportant factor is gonna be those old Altec speakers. Rhoads himself was very Keen on WHY those speakers were important to his sound (they were louder, and broke up less than any Celestion and thus 'represented' his guitar/amps/pedals' better).


----------



## blues_n_cues

Tone Slinger said:


> The Altec speakers 'voiced' the whole of Randy's tone. They are hard to find and unique sounding. Randys tone wasnt 'Straight dimed amp tone' like say Early EVH......there was that processed thing, ala Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, etc. Like mentioned, the D+ and the 10 band Eq boosted the SHIT out of Randy's Marshalls. You hear a difference in his LP (T-tops, A5/8kish output) and his Sandoval V (Super D's,ceramic/14kish output) moreso by those two guitars construction. The '73 Custom has a 24-3/4 scale with Mahogany neck, whereas the Sandoval V has a 25-1/2 scale Maple neck(rosewood board, its a Danelectro neck). The V, regardless of pu, is gonna sound different, though the Super D certainly gave his rig more gain/noise.
> 
> V on S.A.T.O and LP on 'Tonight'. Basically the same amp set up but the V has more high end clarity and the LP has that nasal 'honk'.
> 
> Once the actual Amps (English Marshalls with El-34's NOT the American 6550 imports) and pedal chain (MAINLY a D+ and a 10 band eq) are set up right, the MOSTimportant factor is gonna be those old Altec speakers. Rhoads himself was very Keen on WHY those speakers were important to his sound (they were louder, and broke up less than any Celestion and thus 'represented' his guitar/amps/pedals' better).



and the biggest part of his tone was the way he picked & palm rested his right hand on the bridge.


----------



## dreyn77

yeah and we notice that picking technique because the signal is way too powerful you can actually hear every slip of the fingers touching the string. 
it was as if the pickups were giant microphones capturing everything. 
(when they are not suppose to do that!) 

All of what you mention tone slinger I have taken out of the sound listening process. I had to eliminate all that info about guitars we 'think' is happening but inreality it's NOT happening. 

If you try and understand RR's tone from a big 100 watter marshall amp, you'll always be totally lost!
If you're trying to find pickup DNA it doesn't matter if you starbucks speakers. If your listening for amp/pedal DNA it doesn't make any difference if you amp you are using doesn't have valves in it. 

I had a hunch the Superdistortion pickup was a 'trick' pickup. and it proved to be one of those. because I got a 2010 stryper type tone from that pickup while conducting my tests. Robert sweet uses actives and the sound I found was extremely close. 
(but don't forget I wasn't listening for the pickups DNA at monster volume levels. I had the 5010 set to a tiny volume setting. the sound 'cracked' when it should have made a 'blurred' note. 
when I plugged the pickup into the low input the note was 'blurry/fuzzy'. which reveiled the pickups DNA)


----------



## Tone Slinger

I hear what your saying but I can handle the picking and playing part pretty well..... 
as well as 'grope' his set up. A D+ and a 10 band is Whats happening.


----------



## Tone Slinger

The fundamental sound of a clipping Marshall was RR's core tone. His sound was 'morphed' by the Distortion+ and the 10 band eq. It wasnt just the sheer gain that was achieved by these two pedals hitting the front of his amp, but the way the WHOLE of the fundamental tone was augmented. The D+ was just barely out of the 'square wave' pack......it colors the tone. The eq, besides its boost, gives the mids that sort of craziness. It gets a bit 'smeary', but that was a part of Rhoads sound.

I hope to get clips up so MORE than just my mouth is making claims


----------



## dreyn77

I just plugged into the DSL 100 and used the LPcustom and a GL cable. 
not quite the sound of blizzard record. so I swapped the cable to a USA hi definition cable with switch craft plugs. 
there was the sound. the trebles sounded the same the were slightly fatter and the bass was noticibly fatter. (but that's all because of the amps, next gen dial settings) 
the gain sounded extremely good and the strings where loudly amplified. If I slid my fingers along the strings it was really loud. 

It was so good, that's all that was needed. 

I plugged in the EMG's and they deadened the string loudness almost to zero. Also every string was much quieter and dull. 
you can understand why metallica uses them for metal and why Les Paul used that type of pickup too. 

It's noway near a great RR type sound. that's got sparkle.


----------



## The Ozzk

Gear in blizzard of Oz:


----------



## MorePaul




----------



## dreyn77

Yeah so the next gen settings perfectly match the last track on the blizzard of oz recording of this gen. 
It's the modern version/easy version/reliable version of 'cascaded gain mod'. without touching a single screw to undo any part of the amp. 

RR can be matched with a 70'sLP and hi definition cables and a DSL 2000 and mode 4 400cab. 

thanks for pointing it out to me guys!


----------



## dreyn77

The latest released CD versions of bilzzard etc... at all fully digital and that means Randy's sound is degraded to shockingly bad levels. the drums and bass are almost non existant in the sound. but because Randy turned his sound to super massive trebles setting, he totally dominates the rest of the band. 
Play your old vinyl record and gradually turn the bass and treble dials down at the same time and you'll get the same effect as a digital CD recording sound. 

THis is also the same effect active pickups do to sound. 
also why on the SLAYER recording of 'reign in blood' you can hear Kerry is twice as loud and clear when compared to Jeff's sound. which is degraded and dull. 
Also have a listen to Danzig's recordings and Megadeth's 'Endgame' for sound degrading. when dave chug de chug's along while chris solo's, it sounds like dull keyboard buzz. 
Neil Young is right actives and digital is rubbish sound. All it produces is GM spaggetti music.

But DON'T buy the latest digital recordings on massively over priced vinyl records! The sound has already been stuffed way back in the studio computer. 

Go track yourself down an original english pressing of Blizzard of Ozz because its the BEST you'll ever find.


----------



## dreyn77

without a doubt the best guitar/pickups you can buy for a great Randy Rhoads sound straight from a early era marshall amp (jmp/800) is a japanese fernandes 'limited edition' flying 'v'. 
If you plug into the high input on the amp and turn bass mid and treble to 10 (maximum tone) (pres to halfway) you get Randy's hiFi sound with the same amount of gain as the recording but without the mxr's. (it's the high gain marshall sound you never had/could get before)
if you plug in to the low input you get the LoFi version the crunchy version of randy's sound. still total high gain etc...(it's the sound of the MXR's influence on the sound without the mxr's). 
link the two inputs and you've blended to two sounds.

incredible!! twice..

& combined.

If you can't find one of those guitars I suggest one of the pickup makers might know how to make the 2 pickups for you. 

yes that's right you also have the brilliant feature of a neck pickup with all the great tone of randy's original idea for sound. 
(and to think I left this guitar in a shop for 6 months for sale a few years ago. "arrrh!" lucky nobody wanted an 80's guitar and I took it back from sale in the shop) the stupid things we do! 
I never thought to try the guitar how we are suppose to play it. I just thought they were all suppose to be plugged into MXR to get RR's sound. 

It's never for sale now!


----------



## keennay

dreyn77 said:


> The latest released CD versions of bilzzard etc... at all fully digital and that means Randy's sound is degraded to shockingly bad levels. the drums and bass are almost non existant in the sound. but because Randy turned his sound to super massive trebles setting, he totally dominates the rest of the band.
> Play your old vinyl record and gradually turn the bass and treble dials down at the same time and you'll get the same effect as a digital CD recording sound.



Which _Blizzard of Ozz_ version are you listening to: the 2002 release with Robert Trujillo on bass (who's now Metallica's bassist) or the 2011 re-released version? I have 4 versions: the original vinyl mix converted to FLAC digital format, 1980 CD mix, 2002 with the bass/drums replaced, and the 2011 re-release. 

Quite frankly the quality of the re-release sounds the same to me as the initial mix, except it's louder. I prefer this version since the original release's volume is too low in my car's sound system.


----------



## keennay

Is it just me who doubts that Randy used a Marshall for most of his songs on _Blizzard of Ozz_? I'd even speculate that only Steal Away and possibly Revelation (aside from Goodbye to Romance & Dee) were the only titles featuring his Super Lead. With all due respect to Randy Rhoads (RIP), the first time I heard Crazy Train I thought "My God why does this rhythm track sound like it's coming from my roommate's shitty Crate amp?" Max Norman couldn't have fucked up too badly during the original mix.

JParry335 posted a link a while ago with a video of him playing through his Roland Micro Cube, and my initial thought was that kinda sounds like Randy's rhythm tone on Blizzard of Ozz. A bit of research led me to a couple of sources indicating Randy at times used a Roland Cube-40 combo amp.

Who knows. Maybe Randy was trolling us similar to how EVH claimed his Super Lead was modded. On the other hand, I could totally believe _Diary of a Madman_ was recorded with an overdriven/cascaded-gain modded Super Lead 100 (my boosted JMP 2203 can easily get into that territory). Call me crazy or whatever...


----------



## dreyn77

I've got 7 versions of blizzard and the latest version has degraded further down the LoFi scale. 
yeah is turned up but it's almost all treble sound. drums are almost not heard and the same with the bass sound. because we all turn the amp up we are deluding in thinking it's a good sound. 
the sound is about 15% of the original sound from the first vinyl pressing. 
I got the UK pressing last year for $5 and it's alot better than my 80's AUS version and my Jap early 90's extra special thick pressing. I paid $40 for that back then. the old picture disc version is not as good as these other prints.

Blizzard sounds very different to the original Jap pressings of Quiet Riots albums. 
so much so, I do think blizzard is all JMP. 
I can now pick where Randy changes guitars on the tribute recording. 
I still think only 3 songs on diary were recorded with the cascaded channel JMP. 

I think quiet riot was all the SUNN amp. you can hear the marshall reamp with the 'randy rhoads years' cd. it's like a double layer sound.


----------



## dreyn77

once sound has been put on digital it's at about 20% of the full 100%. 
they have taken a digital transfer and remastered on digital and lost a further 5%. but this allows for the big volume boost to the recording. 
compare the version with the sound at extremely low volume levels. that's the only way you can tell what's happening to the sound.


----------



## blues_n_cues

keennay said:


> Is it just me who doubts that Randy used a Marshall for most of his songs on _Blizzard of Ozz_? I'd even speculate that only Steal Away and possibly Revelation (aside from Goodbye to Romance & Dee) were the only titles featuring his Super Lead. With all due respect to Randy Rhoads (RIP), the first time I heard Crazy Train I thought "My God why does this rhythm track sound like it's coming from my roommate's shitty Crate amp?" Max Norman couldn't have fucked up too badly during the original mix.
> 
> JParry335 posted a link a while ago with a video of him playing through his Roland Micro Cube, and my initial thought was that kinda sounds like Randy's rhythm tone on Blizzard of Ozz. A bit of research led me to a couple of sources indicating Randy at times used a Roland Cube-40 combo amp.
> 
> Who knows. Maybe Randy was trolling us similar to how EVH claimed his Super Lead was modded. On the other hand, I could totally believe _Diary of a Madman_ was recorded with an overdriven/cascaded-gain modded Super Lead 100 (my boosted JMP 2203 can easily get into that territory). Call me crazy or whatever...



they didn't have the Roland Cube in Randy's day. what he did have was a small Peavey & an Ampeg combo,which I'm sure he didn't take to England considering he was flying the Concorde in style.
it could be possible that Crazy Train was done first & something other than the Marshalls used but I'm sure Max would have eluded to that fact in one of his many interviews on the BOZ & DOAM sessions.Randy or especially Ozzy would have mentioned something about it too.

here's just some of his interviews-

https://www.google.com/search?sourc...s_l=hp...0.0.0.0.5039...........0.TZwpFd1MzCQ

this one is really good-
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSI_d63rSMk]Max Norman Interview - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## LAARS

Didn't Max Norman have the guitars going through that AMS 1580 all the time? It overdrives the signal(Jimmy Page echo plex), adding distortion. They also dropped the voltage down to 90 volts, ala EVH. I always thought that was where the extra gain came from.......

Randy was my favorite guitar player, and the reason I learned music theory back in the 80s. His guitar tone was never one that I thought was OMG over the top, I gots to get me some of that. It was thin, buzzy, and had that damn MXR Distortion Plus all over it. I worked damn hard at learning every song on those first two albums, getting my hands to sound like his, getting his technique of muting. phrasing, and speed picking. I never wanted to copy his actual tone though. It was his playing that I loved. I did like his live sound better then on albums, and Diary is better then the Blizzard for tone.


----------



## blues_n_cues

LAARS said:


> Didn't Max Norman have the guitars going through that AMS 1580 all the time? It overdrives the signal(Jimmy Page echo plex), adding distortion. They also dropped the voltage down to 90 volts, ala EVH. I always thought that was where the extra gain came from.......
> 
> Randy was my favorite guitar player, and the reason I learned music theory back in the 80s. His guitar tone was never one that I thought was OMG over the top, I gots to get me some of that. It was thin, buzzy, and had that damn MXR Distortion Plus all over it. I worked damn hard at learning every song on those first two albums, getting my hands to sound like his, getting his technique of muting. phrasing, and speed picking. I never wanted to copy his actual tone though. It was his playing that I loved. I did like his live sound better then on albums, and Diary is better then the Blizzard for tone.



yep,DOAM was light years ahead of BOO as far as tone but they also had more time & a slightly bigger budget for that one. BOO was basically a bunch of Randy's leftover QR riffs. if you listen to QR the RR years you can hear most of it in those songs almost verbatim.


----------



## dreyn77

2 possiblities;
either they don't own the original pressings of the recordings and don't want to be embarresed by telling anyone. 

OR

Sharron's made a bet with someone that, all of us 'fans' wouldn't know a good sound if we heard it. 
and it was designed to be a big profit earner and it stuffed daisley and kerslake as a bonus, created from the degraded sound. they just happened to get pushed way down in the mix as a by product and not deliberate action.

All they had to do was get ozzy on film reminising about the 'good ol days'. 
Get a few mates on camera for free, who will talk about how great the recording was way back when (and say NOTHING about the product of today) 
then throw out there, the WORST possible version OF ALL TIME! and nobody will ever complain. 

It's NO WONDER Lee and Bob are TOTALLY speachless about the new versions. 
they know great sound and it ain't that! that's for sure.

As soon as I heard megadeth's endgame I had a funny feeling that OZ was going to do the same. I was stunned at the level of BS that i've purchased. 
but I only paid $6 instead of the $30 asking price in the retail shop.

they didn't even give us the original length of the songs. so you know there's going to be more releases. 

I find these releases a total insult to 'US'/ me.


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## dreyn77

It's not getting "better and better". Ipad recording is CRAP! always will be!
analong is always the best. 
Norman is a pro lier too it seems.


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## dreyn77

Bob Daisley's bass sound is totally clean back then on the recording.


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## dreyn77

SO their approach to GM modified throw away spaggetti music has been going on for ever. 
they were DH's back then and still are today! that's why we've got good stuff under lock and key still today! and why there's NOTHIING good for sale. 

the only guys with ANY credit are the 3 guys who play the instruments.  
and he's influenced the megadeth new chuck away BS music too.  
the sooner guys STOP including these F heads in the mix the better for music.

I feel sorry for the Rhoads family to have to get stuck with these money grabber slobs all the rest of their lives. What a waste of talent down the toilet of legal battles.


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## keennay

Which gear (primarily pickups) do you think is best at achieving Randy's Blizzard of Ozz solo tone?

Without going into a completely different tangent regarding all of the possible (and mysterious gear) Randy may have used, I was listening to Robbin Crosby's solo off Ratt - Wanted Man and thought, "Wow, that tone at ~2:37 sounds very much like Randy's."

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjWu11Q9obo&t=2m37s]Ratt - Wanted Man (1) - YouTube[/ame]


That solo tone has to be unique to a particular sound/era, and I almost want to guess it's a Super Distortion. Quite frankly I wouldn't know if it's strictly due to the amp used (Marshall Super Lead/Master Volume variant) or the particular pickup + stereo/chorus.

Do any of you know of any other bands from the 70's/80's with that distinct solo tone found in the above Ratt clip, as well as Randy's Ozz solo tone?



A4100K said:


> Right after the drum fill at the beginning of the song when Randy slides down the neck and busts into the main riff you can't tell me that that isn't kick ass loud as hell Marshall Randy Rhoads tone at its best. Sounds like the guitar stage volume would melt you face. Love it.Over The Mountain- Ozzy Osbourne/Randy Rhoads (Live Albuquerque, New Mexico) Video - YouTube



I know right? Despite the horrible Super 8 'cellphone-like' quality, I thought the exact same regarding Randy's into.

Anyway, it looks like Sharon Osbourne ordered for the video to be taken down... better start saving your favorite YouTube clips to your local hard drive! Luckily I saved this one a while back.


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## Tone Slinger

I've heard Warren say that 'Out Of The Cellar' was a Fender champ pre-amping a JCM800 (only the output Stage of the 800 was being used) into a old '70's Marshall 4/12 that had 25 watt celestions. If I'm not mistaken, Beau Hill liked that set-up so much that he went with it again for 'Invasion of your Privacy'. Obviously 'IOYPrivacy' was MUCH, MUCH more of a 'wet/produced' tone, but the core sound is pretty much that of 'Out Of The Cellar'.

Robin and Warren used/shared the same amp setup on those recordings I believe. Robbin hit the strings differently and used a different type pick (plectrum). Also, I believe Robbin had a Seymour Duncan 'Alan Holdsworth' pu. Two sets of adjustable poles (more high end). The output of that pu was around 14k to 15k. Warren, had a JB at that time.

I honestly think that the two biggest factors in Randys tone was the Altec speakers (cleaner/clearer, extended top and bottom eq range as compared to celestions, etc) and an MXR Distortion +. You push the front of a distorted amp with a D+ and its that same 'grainy/crunchy' type thing as Randy had. The 10 band was also big. Certain ranges of his eq was definately boosted, also, there was that slight 'lag' in Rhoads tone that is a sure result of a long signal chain.


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## keennay

Tone Slinger said:


> I've heard Warren say that 'Out Of The Cellar' was a Fender champ pre-amping a JCM800 (only the output Stage of the 800 was being used) into a old '70's Marshall 4/12 that had 25 watt celestions. If I'm not mistaken, Beau Hill liked that set-up so much that he went with it again for 'Invasion of your Privacy'. Obviously 'IOYPrivacy' was MUCH, MUCH more of a 'wet/produced' tone, but the core sound is pretty much that of 'Out Of The Cellar'.



I sure hope not. That seems like more effort than what's really needed, not something I'd want to re-create. It also sounds like 'EVH' type of disinformation... a Fender champ?


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## Tone Slinger

Warren DeMartini Talks About His Tone - YouTube

No mis-info.

I got all the guitar mags from way back. Some interviews mention a 100 watt JCM 800 and the 'old '70's 4x12 with 25 watters', and others mention the Champ. 
Its no big secret that Producers (Beau Hill in this case) have amp/setups that they like, ones where they know will track good, etc. Hell, Eddie Kramer did the same thing for Ace Frehley back in '76 on the 'Rock and Roll Over' album. Little Fender through Marshall through 4x12. No big deal or secret, etc.

As for EVH, the only REAL mis-info's was given by Ed himself. Partly out of purposely trying to stump people and partly from not being able to properly describe his set-up in that '80 cover story. His technical knowledge/wording wasnt so good.That spawned a number of crazy mods (like the 'cerrum mod' etc).
Randys tone is a 1959 cranked up to at least 5with a D+ and a 10 band eq boosting the front a bit. The Altec speakers ('fairly' similar to certain JBL and EV speakers) imparted a fuller bandwidth of eq frequincies,as compared to the mid heavy Celestions.


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## dreyn77

If you just want to swap the tone from bright to dark, you just use the other cable type, signature if you must. 

the bass will now be heavier than the trebles. it's a good trick from George lynch.  

the only other reason to put stuff infront is for more gain in the sound, but that could just be the sound of more notes. 

your amp's loud enough, so you just have to tweek it alittle. 

yeah those, 65's seem mid heavy on the youtube clips. I've never heard them inperson....


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## dreyn77

Ratt. you gotta get rid of the bass power and add some Eq boost pedal and make it Lofi. maybe a pedal maybe the mr scary cable trick. I bet its a VH pickup trick too. 

it really is high gain with low power. 

If you listen to ROXUS 'rock n roll nights, that's the full humbucker into an 800 with pedal boost. 
hear how powerful the sound is when compared to RATT. my mate in the 'body heat' vid was using weaker sound but also very hot in pedal gain. 
RATT is even a step lower in power than the body heat era roxus. 

The guys in California specialized in that hot low power sound and it didn't really take off in other areas of the globe. It was kinda difficult to find that sound so guys else where, sounded too heavy when compared to the LA guys. 

I complained about it for years. guys were too heavy with their tone. now we can look back and know it was the humbuckers made by aftermarket pickup makers which made the sound. 

Roxus lost what they had cause the new blonde guitarist was 'too heavy' for the current sounds, and they were completely lost with their 'moves' in the videos. Their management wasn't strong enough to say those vids are silly and need to be redone. 

they upset every type of fan who might have liked them.


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## SirArcsAlot

I feel like people are forgetting Tom Scholz from Boston. Pretty similar sound to RR. Also used a dist+


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