# schematics for a 60's Marshall 200 watt "pig"



## rbehm

Hey there Marshall lovers,

I've built a 1967 Marshall 100 watt head already by loaning a real 1967 Marshall jtm100 head for a week or so and copying the schematics by sight and comparing the amps to get the sound of the real 67' Marshall , and i want to build another Marshall head for the sound i want for future events  

The sound I'm chasing, is the 200 watt Marshall "pig", not the major P.A with the 6 knobs and four imput jacks, but the one with 3 active control knobs, 2 imput Marshall with the smaller looking faceplate. I looked up the video of a 67' Marshall "pig" on Youtube, type in "200 watt Marshall" and you should find it, that's the sound i want, that's the AMP i want. Unfortunetly, finding one would be like finding a needle in a hay stack, SO, Does anyone have schematics for this beast amp? 

Randal Marshall Behm would be my facebook to get a hold of me, or simply reply on here, which would be a great help. 

Schematics would be GREAT, if there is anyone that OWNS this amp, would you be able to take detailed photos of this amp and i can just build it by looking at it and seeing the color patterns on the resistors and Maybe some writen details about certain wiring or resistor types ETC would be a helping hand, but for this amp, pictures or schematics would be great. You would be helping a Marshall freak like me more than you know it!  

Thank you for your time to read this and if you have the golden ticket for this, THANK YOU! 

(And thank you father Marshall of loudness for creating the best amps in the world) 

Cheers, 

Randy Jr.


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## AtomicRob

This may not be much help but I'm pretty sure I saw a thread on this somewhere once where somebody had the schematic, like maybe the metroamp forum. You could try searching there.


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## rbehm

I emailed metropoulos and asked if they had any schematics, i will try that, usually there are just discussions on these amps, but nothing more, just thought id ask the marshall forum..well..since it has to do with marshall.


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## metromutt

This help...

Generic Major
http://www.drtube.com/schematics/marshall/200w.gif
78 Bass
http://www.drtube.com/schematics/marshall/1978u.gif
67 Lead
http://www.drtube.com/schematics/marshall/1967u.gif


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## rbehm

It doesn't help, That is the Marshall MAJOR, there is a difference between the MAJOR and the PIG, The pig is this: 

Redirect Notice 

I've already got a 67 Marshall, 

I want to build the 200 watt 1966-67 Marshall 200 watt PIG with active tone controls.


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## ampbuilder

Hi everyone. I own one of the first 'Pigs' made. Its still in excellent condition but needs a new output transformer. I have got the circuit drawing somewhere which I will draw up on CAD. The circuit is quite different to the 'Majors'. A brief description ;-
two ECC83, one ECC82, and four KT88. The power circuit is quite traditional (NOT an ultralinear type). HT volts is 750VDC ( ouch ). Screen grids are 550vDC from four grid resistors. HT is generated from center tapped transformer through three diodes in series from each tap. Smoothing caps are four 33uf 450V wired as two parallel pairs in series. Screen grid is from a seperate supply with two smoothing caps in series. The transformers are made using grain oriented continuously wound strip C cores. These cores I believe was made by a company called Seddon and Bramall in Sheffield UK. Who wound the transformers Ime not sure. The output transformer primary was 550 0 550 turns of 25swg (british wire guage). These were split into smallergroups and interspaced to achieve a better balance. Output winding was 150 turns for 15 ohm and 75 turns for 8 ohms. Guage Ime not sure I guess 20SWG. On full output into 15 ohms I once measured 235V AC . Hope this is of interest. I will post full circuit when done as it appears ime the only one whos got it. It had one problem the output NFB was fed into the ECC82 phse splitter and there was some crossover distortion. I notice later versions take the feedback to an earlier stage to have more effect.


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## shooto

Schematic would be AWESOME!!!!!


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## XSLO

Anyone ever verify that three-knobber schematic that one guy posted? I've been searching for that schematic for many years. I asked the guy that owns the Guitar Hangar if I could come up and take pictures of the inside of Ronno's Pig and he said OK. I had already told him I was ex-Soldano and ex-Ampeg and I wouldn't put a scratch on it. I live all the way across the country from him, though. What's interesting to me is that through some people I knew at Marshall, I found out that Marshall themselves have no idea about the schematic of the Pig. The people working there now never heard of it.


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## vintagekiki

The difference between the Marshall Major 200 a.k.a. The Pig and the classic Marshall Major amp is in the concept of tone control. Marshall Major 200 a.k.a. The Pig uses advanced version Paraphase Tone Control described in Radiotron Designers Handbook, 4th Ed.


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## D-Max

Thanks!


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## danfrank

Hi,
Where did the above schematic come from? It looks reasonable to me except for the 22K resistor from the grid to ground of The Bass triode section (V2a?). 22K seems way too low of a value in this position unless the level to this stage needs to be knocked down a lot. Maybe 220K?
I know Marshall has one of these "Pig" amps in the "museum" located inside their factory in England. There is a video on YouTube of somebody taking a Marshall factory tour and there is a view of the "Pig" amp in that video. I wonder if anyone has emailed Marshall and asked them to draw up a schematic from that amp?
Daniel


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## vintagekiki

danfrank said:


> Hi,
> Where did the above schematic come from? It looks reasonable to me except for the 22K resistor from the grid to ground of The Bass triode section (V2a?). 22K seems way too low of a value in this position unless the level to this stage needs to be knocked down a lot. Maybe 220K?
> Daniel



Biasing resistor v2a makes attenuator 470k and 22k, enables the equalization Bass and Treble per level gain.

Bass section (V2a) works as a voltage gain, unlike Treble section (V1b) who works as a cathode follower with approximately unity gain.

Schematics for Marshall Major 200 a.k.a. The Pig is drawn on the basis of various photos from the net type Look "Under the Hood". 

For details please see the post
http://music-electronics-forum.com/t8345/#post373977

Sorry for the possible grammatical irregularities, translation is the machine https://translate.google.com

vk


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## danfrank

OK, 
So here's my attempt at cloning the Marshall 200 "Pig" as per Vintagekiki's schematic. I still need to match up a set of power tubes to install in the amp, I need to label all the knobs and jacks, and I need to build a cabinet to house amp in.
Power output tubes will be either GLKT88s or Chinese EL156s. Main B+ is 650 volts, Screen supply is 360 volts; should be enough for well over 200 watts.
Many thanks to Vintagekiki for his work on the schematic he provided. I looked at all links he provided for circuit information and I think he did a great job tracing out the schematic onto paper. 
I should have it up and running within a week. If anybody on this board lives in the Los Angeles area, namely, the Hollywood - North Hollywood area of L.A., PM me if you want to give this amp a try to see how it sounds.

Not as cool as an actual Marshall Pig but this has to have at least a little "cool" factor to it. 
Thanks for looking....

PS. Does anyone have outside measurements of the "Pig" cabinet? I'm looking for length X width X height dimensions... Thanks.


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## Vostre Roy

^

Can't wait to hear about the results, that thing looks well made. Clean work, lots of space, scary big transformers, don't know how it can go wrong! Great job man!


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## ampmadscientist

http://www.drtube.com/schematics/marshall/200-pic67.jpg
One of the differences was the ultra-linear output transformer. (the screen grids run from OT taps)
In this schematic I don't see the U-L transformer...


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## shooto

yes!...please post clips!...looks bitchin'


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## danfrank

Thanks for the comments.
Yes, this is a copy of the original 200 watt Marshall amp with no ultralinear taps on the output transformer.
The amp is very quiet with the knobs all turned up; very little hum. I did a good job with the grounds in this amp. The controls take some getting used to, they all interact with each other, when adjusting them. The one thing that I was concerned about was the treble and bass controls; I didn't think they would match up as the treble circuit is a cathode follower which has a gain of less than 1. The bass and treble controls do match up well in this amp.
I have the Chinese EL156 tubes in for the outputs (think of an EL34 on steroids). A word of warning to people buying tubes direct from China... I bought 20 of these tubes and 8 of them are bad, right out of the box. Spend the extra money and buy tubes from a reputable dealer... That's what I get for being cheap...
Here's a few more pics.
Now to find someone that can play guitar, nearby...


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## danfrank

I took my "PIG" clone to a friend's house today. He played guitar and bass through it. This thing makes a great bass amp! Very loud and very clean. I switched output tubes to re-issue Gold Lion KT88s. Very well made tubes.
Guitar sounded good through it also... My friend put the "master volume" knob to the 1:00 position and played a chord (we were in his apartment so we couldn't go too crazy)... It was very LOUD; yet still clean with slight breakup. The loudness is nice in this amp; the kind of loudness that is not only heard but also felt in your gut. Comparable to an original SVT.
Hopefully someone else will build one of these with the "Vintagekiki" schematic and give their opinion of the results.
It is a rather impractical amp to build though, unless the user is doing it "old school"... No PA system used... Only the band, their instruments and amps and the audience.
Daniel


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## vintagekiki

Schematics Marshall Major 200 a.k.a. The Pig is drawn on the basis of various photos from internet photos of type Look "Under the Hood"

I was not able to see detailed photographs intact (clean) amplifier, because it were mainly amplifiers that have survived over the years a variety of intervention and customization.

Based on my 30 years of engineering experience, I tried at all the photos to find a common point, and as a result of the schematics that is located in front of you.

Some of the links used when creating schematics

http://dawkmods.proboards.com/thread/988
http://s67.photobucket.com/user/superchouf/library/MARSHALL PA200
http://s67.photobucket.com/user/superchouf/library/PA?
http://s67.photobucket.com/user/superchouf/slideshow/MARSHALL PA200/?albumview=slideshow
http://vintageamps.com/plexiboard/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=64211
http://webschem.free.fr/Marshall-Major-PA-PIG.png
http://webschem.free.fr/xmjwul2t.png
http://www.electricalaudio.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&p=1814891
http://www.guitariste.com/forums/amplification,major-quot-the-pig-quot-200w-1967,399858.html
http://www.guitariste.com/forums/am...-quot-the-pig-quot-major-200-1967,399739.html
http://www.projetg5.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=3429
http://www.rig-talk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=71216
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.237813823010427.1073741829.235151569943319&type=3
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.393694141916.179936.194362866916&type=3
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=4640305&id=194362866916&fbid=393694291916


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## danfrank

Hi vintagekiki,
I think you got the schematic right. I built one (see above) according to your schematic and it works as it should. The component values are correct as per your schematic and the treble and bass boost/cut work as they should. My version has more capacitance in the power supply so it sounds very good with a bass guitar plugged in. Very clean and LOUD. It is a nice sounding amplifier. The one quirk to the 3 adjustments is that if one knob is adjusted the other 2 have to be tweaked a bit to get the sound "right".
Pleximaster is working towards restoring an original "Pig" 200 watt Marshall. He has been having some stability issues with his. I can't wait till he gets it sorted out and (hopefully) gives it to Johan to test out and make a video of it... 
Thanks for making this schematic available vintagekiki.

Daniel


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## vintagekiki

ampmadscientist said:


> http://www.drtube.com/schematics/marshall/200-pic67.jpg
> One of the differences was the ultra-linear output transformer. (the screen grids run from OT taps)
> In this schematic I don't see the U-L transformer...


 
Marshall 200 a.k.a. The Pig no UL transformer.
View picture http://www.rig-talk.com/forum/download/file.php?id=11908 to see how wired g2 KT88


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## pleximaster

danfrank said:


> I took my "PIG" clone to a friend's house today. He played guitar and bass through it. This thing makes a great bass amp! Very loud and very clean. I switched output tubes to re-issue Gold Lion KT88s. Very well made tubes.
> Guitar sounded good through it also... My friend put the "master volume" knob to the 1:00 position and played a chord (we were in his apartment so we couldn't go too crazy)... It was very LOUD; yet still clean with slight breakup. The loudness is nice in this amp; the kind of loudness that is not only heard but also felt in your gut. Comparable to an original SVT.
> Hopefully someone else will build one of these with the "Vintagekiki" schematic and give their opinion of the results.
> It is a rather impractical amp to build though, unless the user is doing it "old school"... No PA system used... Only the band, their instruments and amps and the audience.
> Daniel




Dear Dan!
Do you have a sound clip of your amp? Your experience is that its a rather clean amp, right? I however find my amp rather gainy as you have heard in my two sound clips. There is also a guy on you tube with a couple of clips of his pic, that sound similar to mine. Slightly differences I find on his circuitry which are not 100% original as one could easily see.

I used an old gold top conversion with original PAFs (7,2k ohms) in my sound clip, so no high gain pickups

Edit: Do you use an ultra linear OT or regular like the TH1498? I think this might be the reason

plexi








In the youtube clip I have two t88 in bias at 21mV each


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## danfrank

Hi Plexi,
Yes, the one I built sounds rather clean. It makes a great bass amplifier; clean and loud. The one difference between my amplifier and yours is that I have A LOT more filter capacitance in my amplifier. I can not remember why I did this; maybe because I didn't have any small value filter capacitors at the time. My first filter after the diodes is 330uf. I have 100uf for the screen supply and 47uf for P.I. and 47uf for the 1st 2 preamp tubes. I am willing to guess that this is why my amplifier sounds clean. I just bought some 16uf and 32uf capacitors and I am planning to change out the filters with these new capacitors. I don't have much in the way of recording gear but I will try to get a recording of mine up soon.

When I first built my version of the "PIG", the original voltages I had were 640v for the plate supply and 358v for the screen supply, considerably lower than what was original. I am using a power transformer from an old Tektronix Oscilloscope that has many secondary voltages. I have since rewired the transformer so now I am getting 700v and 410v for the supply voltages.


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## pleximaster

How about the OT Do you use an ultra linear OT or regular like the TH1498? I think this might be the reason for the gain difference as well. The guy on youtube also have a TH1498 OT

best plexi


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## danfrank

My "PIG" has a regular OT, not ultra-linear.
I built a Superlead with an ultra-linear OT about 25 years ago for a guitarist friend of mine and after about 5 years of playing it, he blew the OT, and the OT in that amplifier was rated for 200 watts. It was a very robust OT. Ever since then I no longer build guitar amplifiers with ultra-linear output stages; they tend to blow OTs. The reason I built this SL as ultra-linear is the same reason that Marshall used an ultra-linear output stage in the Major... It really simplifies the design of the power supply. Live and learn!
My "PIG" has a 5000 ohm primary OT that I halve the impedances on when I use KT88 tubes. So with KT88 tubes, I use the OT as a 2500 ohm primary to 8, 4, 2 ohm secondary. I originally installed EL156 output tubes in this amplifier, which require a higher load impedance; this is why I used a 5000 ohm primary OT. The EL156 tubes sound very good; they are true pentodes like the EL34. In fact they are basically a EL34 but with a 50 watt dissipation per tube.


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## danfrank

I also have the Electro-voice 200 watt transformer set which are equivalents to the original "PIG" transformers. They were from a Sound City amplifier. When I build another "PIG" with these transformers, I will make everything "stock", to the best of my knowledge, to the original "PIG" circuit.


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## pleximaster

This is very interesting, only filtering difference?


Here is the other pig on Youtube, same transformer as mine TH1498...



The schematics of the PA the Pig have the dual core transformer. That schematics doesn´t show a ultra linear OT either. As a matter of fact I have never seen any picture if a Pig PA or regular with an ultra linear OT that was original. The Pig amps were designed by GEC and not Marshall.

Marshall then redesigned the 200 into the Major (6 knobs) and they had ultra linear OTs. I am starting to believe that a Ultra Linear the pigs never existed and they used regular trannies and the UL came with the redesigned major.


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## danfrank

Ultra Linear OT was only on the Marshall Majors, never on the "PIG".


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## vintagekiki

pleximaster said:


> http://www.marshallforum.com/index.php?attachments/marshall-major-pa-pig-png.34437/


Unfortunately I have to disappoint you. Schematics you gave is incorrect.
- Cathode tubes connected to the output voltage of +450V (point C)
- Screen grid over 1k resistor connected to the cathode
There is simply no logic.
There is no magic to amplifier in this circuit (anode connected to +650V and the cathode connected to +450V) can work.


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## Codyjohns

pleximaster said:


> This is very interesting, only filtering difference?
> 
> 
> Here is the other pig on Youtube, same transformer as mine TH1498...




I like this video.
Definitely one of the nicest video's on youtube of the Pig I've ever seen.


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## pleximaster

danfrank said:


> Ultra Linear OT was only on the Marshall Majors, never on the "PIG".



Thanks for clarifying this! I have seen multiple people saying the pig could have ultra linear OT and I have three book stating the same some say they only had ultra linear OT 

I guess someone mixed up the pig with the major and after a few misquotes especially on the inter net it "becomes the truth"... 

plexi


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## danfrank

Hi Plexi,
I think a lot of people get confused about the two different models. I have even seen the confusion on this forum and even this very thread! I would like to know the "official" reason why Marshall discontinued the 3 knob "PIG" and started making the 6 knob "MAJOR". Personally, I think the reason is that musicians didn't like the way the controls operated on the "PIG". I don't know if you have noticed on your amplifier, but if you adjust one knob, you have to slightly adjust the other two knobs to get "the Marshall sound" working correctly again. It's like all 3 knobs are kind of interacting with each other; if you adjust one, you then have to adjust the other 2 knobs.
When are you planning on letting Johan Play your amp? I'd like to know what he thinks about the amplifier.


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## danfrank

vintagekiki said:


> Unfortunately I have to disappoint you. Schematics you gave is incorrect.
> - Cathode tubes connected to the output voltage of +450V (point C)
> - Screen grid over 1k resistor connected to the cathode
> There is simply no logic.
> There is no magic to amplifier in this circuit (anode connected to +650V and the cathode connected to +450V) can work.



Vintagekiki,
Yes, the output section of that schematic is incorrect, as are some of the voltage values. It would be great if you and Pleximaster could correspond and draw a corrected schematic for the Marshall 200 "PIG".
With the Partridge TH1498 Power Transformer, the Marshall 200 PT secondary connections should look like the following Sound City 200+ schematic:


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## pleximaster

This is the inside of my pig look like now.





I have followed Vintagekiki schematics with the exception of and added 47pf phase inverter capacitor between the 82k and the 100k resistor, as in a super lead, your suggestion Dan. I have also added two extra internal fuses one at the choke and one for the B+
I also have 1,8K 5 watt resistors on the octal tube sockets instead of 1k 5 watts

The rectifier section is done as you suggested (I didnt move the diodes I just used jumpers under the board, two diods on the big board are not used)



For the biasing i used the Hiwatt dual trimpot setup (Didnt need the voltage doubler with the GEC tubes they matched the circuitry well) I use two 47uF cans instead of one 100uF. The two trimpots I´ve used are not 10k as in the picture but 47k



And using the dual trimpots as i Dan´s picture (Great illustration for dummies like me  )




I hope this info is enough for anyone who like to try this or do a new schematic with the TH1498 transformer

plexi


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## danfrank

Very nice work on your Marshall 200. Have you played guitar any more with this amplifier? What are your impressions of the sound of this amplifier compared to a 1968 SuperLead?


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## pleximaster

Thanks Dan!

Yes I played it a lot! It´s so much fun! It´s Marshall sound but something different. The interactive knobs are cool. The table volume is sort of bright channel on a SL and the Bass volume is the normal channel end then you have a master volume that are like both channels jumped in a way. The KT88 is different sounding from el34 and i feel the connection here to my park75 that have kt88 as well. 

This amp has possibly the best rhythm guitar sound I ever heard so huge and fat but at the same time well defined and clear even up to were I mas both the treble and master (the bass can mush it up a bit)

for soloing it is also great having this fat and full sound however shredding is not for the pig as the attach (is good) but its not as fast responding as a 68SL the. I love the sag in this amp (I have lower filtering than you have) but its too much for super fast shredding.

Johan is coming Tuesday for a demo.

Yesterday I tried a super wah (for the first time ever, got it years ago and never hooked it up) into the pig and it sounded so cool!

I run it with two kt88s and (8 ohms from amp into 16 ohm cab) for practical reasons and that I have delicate 25 and 30 watts greenback speakers that I don´t want to blow up. This alters sag and sound a bit but I don´t think its that a big deal.

best regard plexi


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## vintagekiki

Hi Plexi, Day and all pig lovers

Compare schematics power supply from the image
http://www.marshallforum.com/index.php?attachments/marshall-major-pa-pig-png.34437/
with schematics power supply from the image
http://www.marshallforum.com/index.php?attachments/sc_lb_200_schemo_right-jpg.34447
obviously there is a difference in the configuration of transformers Partridge TH1498 and 7032-6 (Dual core Partridge).

Transformer with full wave rectifier has both high voltage secondary windings with 3 wire each, and all electrolytic capacitor (for + 700V and 450V +) are connected in one point to chassis. It can be seen from images
http://www.rig-talk.com/forum/download/file.php?id=11908
http://www.marshallforum.com/index.php?attachments/image001-gif.34392/

Transformer with with bridge rectifier has both high voltage secondary windings with 2 wire each, and the power supply for the anode (+ 700V) is connected to the "floor" with the power supply g2 (+ 450V)

I study the images from the links listed in
http://www.marshallforum.com/index....60s-marshall-200-watt-pig.40968/#post-1405857
how would draw power supply schematics for both types of PT


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## danfrank

pleximaster said:


> In the youtube clip I have two t88 in bias at 21mV each



Hi again,
I just saw this... 
My KT88s are biased at 40ma each.


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## pleximaster

I have them lower but not that low I have them at 31mV. The 2 and 3 are too close on my keyboard and I have fat fingers! 

35watts for a kt88 at 725V at 70% is (35/725)*0,70 = 33,8 mV

So I sat them around 31mV

best plexi


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## danfrank

I thought KT88 dissipation is 42 watts?
Or are they 35 watts dissipation each?


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## pleximaster

You are right! 42W ! If you go to the GEC KT88s data sheet

I got the 35 watt from the internet Eurotubes see pic... It is wrong. 
I am not that used to kt88s 

plexi


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## pleximaster

Johan Segeborn comes in a few hours and perhaps I should increase it a bit before we do the clip. However it got some gain even though bias is somewhat cold... 

By the way Dan where are you on this globe called the earth? Australia US Asia? We have quite a time difference between us. 


plexi


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## danfrank

I am in California, USA. I think there is an 8 hour time difference between where you are and I am.


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## Mattsson

ampbuilder said:


> Hi everyone. I own one of the first 'Pigs' made. Its still in excellent condition but needs a new output transformer. I have got the circuit drawing somewhere which I will draw up on CAD. The circuit is quite different to the 'Majors'. A brief description ;-
> two ECC83, one ECC82, and four KT88. The power circuit is quite traditional (NOT an ultralinear type). HT volts is 750VDC ( ouch ). Screen grids are 550vDC from four grid resistors. HT is generated from center tapped transformer through three diodes in series from each tap. Smoothing caps are four 33uf 450V wired as two parallel pairs in series. Screen grid is from a seperate supply with two smoothing caps in series. The transformers are made using grain oriented continuously wound strip C cores. These cores I believe was made by a company called Seddon and Bramall in Sheffield UK. Who wound the transformers Ime not sure. The output transformer primary was 550 0 550 turns of 25swg (british wire guage). These were split into smallergroups and interspaced to achieve a better balance. Output winding was 150 turns for 15 ohm and 75 turns for 8 ohms. Guage Ime not sure I guess 20SWG. On full output into 15 ohms I once measured 235V AC . Hope this is of interest. I will post full circuit when done as it appears ime the only one whos got it. It had one problem the output NFB was fed into the ECC82 phse splitter and there was some crossover distortion. I notice later versions take the feedback to an earlier stage to have more effect.



Is there any way you would please post the drawing as promised? Or better yet, will you please consider selling your Marshall 200 to me?


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## danfrank

Mattsson said:


> Is there any way you would please post the drawing as promised? Or better yet, will you please consider selling your Marshall 200 to me?



The schematic posted by "Vintagekiki" earlier in this thread is accurate for the most part; I have built a couple of these "PIG" amps so far and they have turned out nicely. I am currently building one for a friend that will have accurate voltages (important for the sound) to the original "Marshall 200" but it will only have 2 KT88 output tubes instead of 4 so I guess you could call it a "Marshall 100" clone. I am waiting for the faceplates to arrive and it will be done. I will start a thread with pictures in the "Building the Classics" page on this forum when it is completed.

Are you interested in one of these for the sound or are you a collector?


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## neikeel

Looking forwards to this build- is it along similar lines to the fusion bear build ?


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## danfrank

For those interested, I have started a build threat here:

http://www.marshallforum.com/threads/marshall-200-i-mean-marshall-100-build-pig-0-5.94239/

Hope it's informative...


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