# Marshall Origin 20c - Put In A 12'' Speaker



## hi13ts1

Hi friends, first post here. My local store finally received a few Marshall Origins in, a 5w combo and a 20w combo. I've been playing a DSL40C with a V30 for the past 5 years, but was very intrigued by the vintage, plexi-esque design of the Origins. Long story short, spent almost two hours in the store playing with it, demoing pedals in front to see which one fit best, and coming home with the 20w combo. I was very leery of the 10'' speaker to begin with, but when I played it, I realized the circuitry and the tonality of the amp as very good, very responsive. The 10'', of course, lacked the body and bottom end that I'm used to, but it still sounded good. 

When I went home, me being a tinkerer with amp and guitar parts/innards, I figured if a 12'' could fit in the the cabinet, it would be an easy job. I took it apart and indeed a 12'' barely fits in the enclosure. The 10'' hole is, of course, cut too small, but most of the speaker including the center of the cone is exposed, so I think it'll be fine. There were odd ferrules that seem to have held the speaker screws in place that are sort of bulging out of the amp a little though, I'm sure it's exacerbated by the fact that the V30 screws are slightly longer than the 10'' speaker screws. It's not as sightly as I'd like, but I don't think it'd be enough to damage or tear the grill. 

Plugged it in and it sounds like what I imagined: a searing plexi-esque amp with lots of volume and body. I was only on the 0.5 watt setting but I could barely contain it in my apartment. I have no doubt it'll be sufficient for next week's gig. What's great, though, is because of the small enclosure and smaller wattage circuitry, the footprint is smaller and lighter than the DSL ever was, even though the massive V30 is shoved in there. The fact that the tubes are searing at lower volumes is something I'm really appreciating. I'm hoping this proves to be a good workhorse of an amp that continually breaks in to its surroundings the way my DSL was. Will be retiring the DSL for now, but will bring it out whenever needed. 

I hope you all had a chance to play some of the Origins. Please share your experience, I'd love to hear it, especially if you had your hands on the 50w combo.


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## Gene Ballzz

That is very cool to hear!  So I'm assuming no clearance issues with speaker vs tubes, amp chassis, etc? A pic with the back panel off would be ultimately appreciated?  If you can. 
Thanks & 
Gene


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## hi13ts1

The only issue is that the amp's speaker hole is cut to fit a 10'' speaker only, so it cuts off some of the perimeter of the 12'', but I'm not too worried as the center cone and most of the speaker is exposed. The tubes do clear the speaker but it's a little tight. I took some photos for reference during the process in case I had to ask if the tubes were too close to the magnet. It hasn't given any indication of interference or anything off-kilter, so I figured it's fine:


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## hi13ts1

Clearly, the image doesn't work. I can't post links from Google Photos until I make three posts and have been a member for 2 days. I'll get back to you.


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## Springfield Scooter

Congrats!
Cant see the photos....
Would a few flat fashers correct the screws being "too long" ?


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## Guitar Rod

Here are your pics. Got the links out of your img tags.


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## Gene Ballzz

Springfield Scooter said:


> Congrats!
> Cant see the photos....
> Would a few flat fashers correct the screws being "too long" ?



Or slightly shorter screws? And FYI, if you drag your pics out outo your desktop, you can then simply directly upload into your post. Alternatively, you may just be able to drag and drop from goggle photos, but given goggle is what it is, it may not let you.

Just Askin'
Gene


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## solarburn

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## solarburn

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## solarburn

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## Gene Ballzz

Yee-Haw! Looks gouda to me! I know that's a little cheesy, but hey!  Looks like the speaker board/baffle will come right out easily and I'll just make a new for my *"BIG 12 INCH" * and just keep the 10" one, in case I ever wnna sell it in stock form! Swappin' the cloth is a piece of cake, or I can just go new.
Thanx 4 Sharon, She's A Really GOOD Girl, In The Very Worst Ways! 
Gene


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## Springfield Scooter

Odd that Marshall didnt put a 12" in there to begin with.
Thats going to be a very popular mod.


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## Gene Ballzz

YESIREE-BOOBAROONY! This capability will make it very popular, though not quite as popular as if Marshall had done it in the first place, like they should've!
Just My $.02,
Gene


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## hi13ts1

Yes, Springfield, if there were flat ferrules that could fit in the the holes I drilled, then perhaps. The screw itself is not so much longer (we're talking maybe 1/64'' longer than the stock screws), but those ferrule things are what bulges out. The placement for the 10'' screw holes might've been where the grille had more slack because I didn't notice it. I'll have to take a look at a stock piece again to see if those ferrules were jetting out as prominently as it is now. Fortunately, it's a rather inconspicuous aesthetic flaw, so I'm not overly concerned. Will definitely try to rectify it if I see a way to.


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## Springfield Scooter

hi13ts1 said:


> Yes, Springfield, if there were flat ferrules that could fit in the the holes I drilled, then perhaps. The screw itself is not so much longer (we're talking maybe 1/64'' longer than the stock screws), but those ferrule things are what bulges out. The placement for the 10'' screw holes might've been where the grille had more slack because I didn't notice it. I'll have to take a look at a stock piece again to see if those ferrules were jetting out as prominently as it is now. Fortunately, it's a rather inconspicuous aesthetic flaw, so I'm not overly concerned. Will definitely try to rectify it if I see a way to.



I bet its a huge improvement!
Sound clips please!


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## JohnH

Looks like a good mod. When you mount the 12" driver into the 10" hole, could the crinkled edge of the cone touch the baffle if it moves a lot when played very loud?


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## hi13ts1

I'll get something up soon. 

I've attached images of the little ferrules. The original screw holes for the 10'' had the front of the baffle sort of routed in a little to fit these guys. The screw hole itself was larger as these ferrules would've acted as the receiving thread for the screws. Since the new holes I drilled were the size of the screws and did not have any routing in the front face, these guys were sort of just jetting ou on the grille. I took these out and just screwed the screws right into the panel. It was a tight and sturdy fit and there's no indication that it's insecure, so I will leave it as such. I assume those ferrules aren't necessarily critical. 

John, I don't know, I didn't really think about that. I would think the crinkled edges are sunken in enough where that wouldn't be a problem. So far, I haven't heard anything out of the ordinary and I've played it at a reasonably cranked volume. I will let you know this week after my gig where I'm able to crank it to drummer-volume.


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## Gene Ballzz

Those "ferrules" are actually caled "T-nuts" not that it really matters, but if you prefer to use them, there are several ways to go about it. And FWIW, the regular wood type screws you switched to will "probably" be OK, though any impact could cause them to pull out, with that fairly heavy speaker, but not likely unless a serious impact.

One method would be to get a hex head version of your screw size/thread and a few washers and really tighten it (without the speaker) to "draw/squeeze" the T-nut into the wood. Unfortunately, if the speaker board/baffle is made of particle board, MDF or other "manufactured" wood, this won't compress very well and you may need to move to the next method.

This would involve taking out the screws that hold the baffle to the cabinet and removing it. Then carefully take out the staples holding the grill cloth and properly in set the T-nuts. Of course, by now it would be fairly simple to enlarge the speaker cutout to the proper size for your *"BIG 12 INCH!" *Then dust the bare wood edges with some black spray paint, carefully re-staple the grill cloth and reassemble it all. Not only will it be proper, the mod will be generally invisible!

On the other hand, if not equipped for and semi-skilled in woodworking activities, you're likely good to go, as you are with the wood screws, unless a problem arises!

Just My $.02,
Gene


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## hi13ts1

Thanks for the advice, Gene, but yes, my equipment and knowledge of woodworking is lacking. However, do you think using a flatter nut to hold the screw on the other end will give the same effect as using a T-nut? That way it's much less intrusive, but would offer a secure hold. Otherwise, as you said, the particleboard seems thick and sturdy enough to hold the screws on its own. I realize that intense impact can compromise that (probably a steep fall), but the likelihood of that happening isn't enough to make worry too much about it... for now.


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## hi13ts1

Got a lightning fast video up so you can hear it. Naturally, the 12'' is louder and has more body than the stock speaker. Worked out well, I'd say. The only effects I had was a Holy Grail Neo (reverb) put through the effects loop, otherwise it's just my Les Paul. Master Vol was at level 8, Gain was at level 9 and Tilt was level 3. I'm playing it on the low power setting, so I believe that's half a watt. It was already LOUD.


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## LCW

hi13ts1 said:


> Got a lightning fast video up so you can hear it. Naturally, the 12'' is louder and has more body than the stock speaker. Worked out well, I'd say. The only effects I had was a Holy Grail Neo (reverb) put through the effects loop, otherwise it's just my Les Paul. Master Vol was at level 8, Gain was at level 9 and Tilt was level 3. I'm playing it on the low power setting, so I believe that's half a watt. It was already LOUD.




Not my style of music, but that sounds damn good!!!


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## Ghostman

JohnH said:


> Looks like a good mod. When you mount the 12" driver into the 10" hole, could the crinkled edge of the cone touch the baffle if it moves a lot when played very loud?



That would be my main concern. However, with frequencies up above 150hz, I'm sure the excursion on the cone is minimal at best, even at high volumes. 

Best practice would be to cut out the proper diameter opening.


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## JohnH

Ghostman said:


> That would be my main concern. However, with frequencies up above 150hz, I'm sure the excursion on the cone is minimal at best, even at high volumes.
> 
> Best practice would be to cut out the proper diameter opening.



Yes, or another workaround could be to find something to stand off the speaker say 2-3mm back from the baffle. Thick felt or closed-cell foam might do it.

Might not be a problem at all though depending on the speaker.


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## Ghostman

JohnH said:


> Yes, or another workaround could be to find something to stand off the speaker say 2-3mm back from the baffle. Thick felt or closed-cell foam might do it.
> 
> Might not be a problem at all though depending on the speaker.


There's a whole upper echelon of physics that comes into play with wave propagation through a port like that. My suggestion would to just open up the baffle to accomodate the larger speaker.


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## SonVolt

..or get the head version and a 1x12 cab.


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## Cesar

hi13ts1 said:


> Hi friends, first post here. My local store finally received a few Marshall Origins in, a 5w combo and a 20w combo. I've been playing a DSL40C with a V30 for the past 5 years, but was very intrigued by the vintage, plexi-esque design of the Origins. Long story short, spent almost two hours in the store playing with it, demoing pedals in front to see which one fit best, and coming home with the 20w combo. I was very leery of the 10'' speaker to begin with, but when I played it, I realized the circuitry and the tonality of the amp as very good, very responsive. The 10'', of course, lacked the body and bottom end that I'm used to, but it still sounded good.
> 
> When I went home, me being a tinkerer with amp and guitar parts/innards, I figured if a 12'' could fit in the the cabinet, it would be an easy job. I took it apart and indeed a 12'' barely fits in the enclosure. The 10'' hole is, of course, cut too small, but most of the speaker including the center of the cone is exposed, so I think it'll be fine. There were odd ferrules that seem to have held the speaker screws in place that are sort of bulging out of the amp a little though, I'm sure it's exacerbated by the fact that the V30 screws are slightly longer than the 10'' speaker screws. It's not as sightly as I'd like, but I don't think it'd be enough to damage or tear the grill.
> 
> Plugged it in and it sounds like what I imagined: a searing plexi-esque amp with lots of volume and body. I was only on the 0.5 watt setting but I could barely contain it in my apartment. I have no doubt it'll be sufficient for next week's gig. What's great, though, is because of the small enclosure and smaller wattage circuitry, the footprint is smaller and lighter than the DSL ever was, even though the massive V30 is shoved in there. The fact that the tubes are searing at lower volumes is something I'm really appreciating. I'm hoping this proves to be a good workhorse of an amp that continually breaks in to its surroundings the way my DSL was. Will be retiring the DSL for now, but will bring it out whenever needed.
> 
> I hope you all had a chance to play some of the Origins. Please share your experience, I'd love to hear it, especially if you had your hands on the 50w combo.


Hello I received mine yesterday. Wonderful tone. Immediately I thought about the chance to set a 12" inch speaker in it.
Thanks for the post.
Did you made a video or that?


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## Cesar

Hello guys. New here. I put a 12" inch cannabis rex on mine 16" ohm. Just to see what happened I connected the speaker into the output for 8 ohm and it sounds better for me. Why???
Do I have to get the 8 ohm speaker instead 16? Thanks!


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## Cesar




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## olivierlgp

Great job with the cannabis Rex !
Is it so tight with Celestion speakers ?


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## olivierlgp

Do you think a Neo Creamback can fit this enclosure ?


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## primative




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## primative

My 12" swap using 1/2" birch ply. Totally transformed the amp. New JJ tubes helped too. Ill describe the changes and tone after I load the pics.


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## primative

End of photos


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## Time Traveler

I'm interested to Marshall origin 20c, but I want to change the speaker me too , with a 12 speaker greenback, I'm not a expert on such jobs , it's necessary to disassemble the tubes to install a 12 speaker? I'd like some indication on how to act, I'd be grateful.


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## Marmite

Hi there...new at the forum and very interested in adding a Celestion V30 to the 20 Origin...what about swapping the speaker from the outside laying the wood -like the uploaded image shows- and adding the tolex/pipe to a frame to avoid the tolex touching the speaker? It´d make the deep of the speaker win a few inches...what you think??


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## SkyMonkey

Marmite said:


> Hi there...new at the forum and very interested in adding a Celestion V30 to the 20 Origin...what about swapping the speaker from the outside laying the wood -like the uploaded image shows- and adding the tolex/pipe to a frame to avoid the tolex touching the speaker? It´d make the deep of the speaker win a few inches...what you think??


Hi @Marmite. Welcome to the MF  (Love/Hate your username BTW )

Nice first post!

I am not sure if the V30 frame and magnet are any larger than other Celestion 12" speakers, but your idea could make fitting a 12" speaker easier if internal space is tight or tubes are in the way.
If you are any good at installing the Grille Cloth (you said Tolex?) you should be OK with your plan.
Tolex is the 'elephant skin' textured coating on the combo cab.
The speaker will need a gasket between the back of the frame surround and the baffle.
I would make the Grille frame removable, using Velcro to secure it, and don't forget a 'Pull Tab' to peel it off again.


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## Time Traveler

I'd like to replace the speaker me too , with a greenback g12, you say so i know could replace the front, removing the grill.


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## Marmite

SkyMonkey said:


> Hi @Marmite. Welcome to the MF  (Love/Hate your username BTW )
> 
> Nice first post!
> 
> I am not sure if the V30 frame and magnet are any larger than other Celestion 12" speakers, but your idea could make fitting a 12" speaker easier if internal space is tight or tubes are in the way.
> If you are any good at installing the Grillr Cloth (you said Tolex?) you should be OK with your plan.
> Tolex is the 'elephant skin' textured coating on the combo cab.
> The speaker will need a gasket between the back of the frame surround and the baffle.
> I would make the Grille frame removable, using Velcro to secure it, and don't forget a 'Pull Tab' to peel it off again.


Thanks SkyMonkey...and also thanks for the correction grill/tolex!!...BTW I´m from Spain and always seemed funny to me the Marmite´s love/hate relationship of all my english friends.....

I used to have a Tech 21 Power Engine and it has the grill cloth in a frame with a velcro...that´s why I thought about it...it could be a nice solution....


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## SkyMonkey

Marmite said:


> I´m from Spain and always seemed funny to me the Marmite´s love/hate relationship of all my english friends


I won't hold that against you.

BTW I am in the Hate camp. 
Marmite is 'The Devil's Smegma'.


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## SkyMonkey

Sorry. Apparently there is no 'e' in Grill Cloth.


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## Time Traveler

So a solution is put the 12 speaker in front by removing the grill? There isn't space to make new holes inside?


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## Marmite

No, Time traveller...as you can see thru the whole post, this is just an idea in case the size of your 12" speaker choice is bigger than the space you have before it touch the power amp valves... I mean it depends of the size of the back of the speaker that you want to use...


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## Time Traveler

I want to put a greenback g12m, if the greenback g12 it's not more big then vintage 30 or cannabis rex I think there is should no problem for me , I should just to do new four holes .


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## Marmite

Yes!...by the way ,would you be so kind and size the whole distance the marshall Origin 20c has to fit the new spaker?...I´ve just bought one (still waiting to come) but while I´m waiting I would like to research what speaker could be suitable to swap the 10" VType
Thanks in advance....


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## SkyMonkey

Another problem you would have to address with a front mount is that the baffle would definitely need re-cutting to accept the 12" speaker frame.
Though the speaker itself would cover up any horrors if you had to do it by hand!


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## Time Traveler

Marmite said:


> Yes!...by the way ,would you be so kind and size the whole distance the marshall Origin 20c has to fit the new spaker?...I´ve just bought one (still waiting to come) but while I´m waiting I would like to research what speaker could be suitable to swap the 10" VType
> Thanks in advance....



I tried the Marshall origin 20c but I haven't bought it yet , it's not much bad with 10Vtype but surely with a 12 speaker there will be a an improvement, also because with his speaker series to get a crunch you have to raise the master over half, now I've read about a guy that changed with a greenback g10 and then the Marshall crunching before, now I prefer if is possible to put a greenback g12 ,


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## Marmite

Watching at the "primative" forum member´s pictures, he used a:

- WAREHOUSE Green Beret Speaker

Green Beret Overall depth 5 1/16” (12,9 cm)


Comparing to Celestion:

GREENBACK Overall depth 5,1" (13 cm)
V30 Overall depth 5,3" (13,5 cm)
CREAMBACK Overall depth 5,4" (13,8cm)
G12T-75 Overall depth 5" (12,7 cm)
All the data taken from the official sites

As you can see from the picture below, I truly believe that we have enough room for a greenback or even a V30


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## Time Traveler

At this point I'm worried about the circumference, I think that the hole in the panel where the speaker is mounted has the size to fit a 10 speaker, and that therefore a small part of the circumference of the 12 speaker remains covered. 
What do you think about that?


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## wildebassman

Wow, great work! Must be a worthy upgrade. Is it simple to remove and re install the grill cloth and piping?


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## NotSure

It really isn't necessary to go with a 12" speaker in the Origin 20C, since there are so many great 10" speaker options out there now. In many ways some of the new 10's can blow away a lot of the classic 12's. Warehouse Guitar Speakers makes the ET10 and the Retro 10. Both of those have SPL's of 100 db! The Eminence Red Fang ceramic magnet 10" also falls into that 100 db range, but I think those have been discontinued. A few places have them in stock still. Celestion makes the G10 Alnico Gold, which also pushes close to 100 db. But they're about $175. A great-sounding option if you want to drop that much on a 10" speaker.
A lot of people like the 10" Ragin' Cajun', but it's good to remember that's part of their "American-voiced" series and also has a smooth cone. That will have a big impact on the voice of your amp, making it sound less Marshall and more Fender.


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## Time Traveler

NotSure said:


> It really isn't necessary to go with a 12" speaker in the Origin 20C, since there are so many great 10" speaker options out there now that in many ways can blow away a lot of the classic 12s. Warehouse Guitar Speakers makes the ET10 and the Retro 10. Both of those have SPL's of 100 db! That's insane for a 10" speaker. If you want to go the expensive "cork-sniffing" route, Celestion makes the G10 Alnico Gold, which also pushes close to 100 db. But they're about $175. A great-sounding option if you want to drop that much on a 10" speaker.
> The loudest 10" speaker on the planet by far is the Eminence Red Fang ceramic magnet 10". It measures in at a whopping 102 db. Trust me, you will not be wishing you had a 12" greenback if you drop a Red Fang into your Origin 20C. You'll be wondering if you just plugged into a standard 2x12 extension cab!



Indeed I was thinking to put a better 10 speaker, and what do you think about greenback 10?


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## NotSure

Time Traveler said:


> Indeed I was thinking to put a better 10 speaker, and what do you think about greenback 10?


I haven't tried a Greenback 10, but just looking at the specs it's not going to be any louder than the stock VT Jr. The tone may change a little, but the whole reason people want a 12" speaker in the 20C is they want "more", not just "different".
I would go with one of the options below:
1) WGS ET10
2) WGS Retro 10
3) Eminence Red Fang ceramic 10
4) Celestion G10 Alnico Gold (expensive and barely fits)
5) Celestion G10 Vintage (this gives a slight volume boost, but nowhere near the first 3 options on the list)
There are other options, but again, most of the other options are "american-voiced", so it may affect your tone in a way you don't like. All the options above except for #4 are sub-$100 too, so it's not a big investment for something that might not be exactly what you're looking for.
One thing I found in my 20C that helped the tone a little is to pull the baffle off and level out all the screw hole "bumps" with a razor blade. They didn't bother drilling pilot holes into the baffle from the factory, so the screws bulged out the MDF material around every hole. This of course doesn't allow the baffle to sit flush against the frame.


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## Time Traveler

For me the problem isn't the volume, I'd like to increase the mids a bit, and according a guy who had replaced the speaker with a greenback 10 he said that with the greenback 10 the amp crunching before and this it would be good for me


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## NotSure

Hmm...it's sounds like you might be happier with a switchable NFB loop. The Origin 20C has quite a bit of negative feedback. It's amazing how much more open, crunchy, and rich an amp can sound by reducing or eliminating NFB. The best option is to make it switchable, so you can go back and forth between "stock" and "modded". 
Personally I would look into that option first.


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## mspart

I'm thinking to myself, just get the Origin 20 head and add a 1x12 or 2x12 cab to it. Or a 1x10 if that is what you prefer. Now I am a rank novice and know nothing really. I have a cab that I put qty (2) V30s in and it sounds great with my Code 50. But I think it is just craving a shot at a Origin 20 head. The more I read and the more I watch and listen, the Origin has a great sound. I think that is what I will get next. I'm not sure when. I think it will just be sweet with my cab. Going from the Code 50 speaker (junk) to the cab with qty (2) G12M70s, that was way better but a bit brittle on the high end. I then got some V30s for a good price and the cab is now pretty sweet. And yes, I had to modify my Code 50 with an speaker output jack. That was fairly easy to do. Thanks for all the idea in this thread. I really appreciate it. 

mspart


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## fitz

mspart said:


> I have a cab that I put qty (2) V30s in and it sounds great with my Code 50. But I think it is just craving a shot at a Origin 20 head.



Off topic for the combo thread, but I'll give a +1 to the Origin20H & 2xV30 cab.


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## fitz

Hey @Time Traveler & @NotSure , before you go and cut up your 20Cs for bigger speakers or rewiring the NFB, just try a little front end juice and an EQ in the loop.


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## Brek

I did a similar mod to my first origin 5 amp, made a new front baffle for it, but had to use some 5mm pine strip to push the baffle forwards a touch so speaker doesn’t touch chassis. I tried a few speakers with it and settled on the v10 vintage. Taking the cloth of and retacking it was the hardest bit, as you have no edge to get hold of to really tension it. Mines a bit loose, not obviously so looking at it, but it bugged me so ordered some new cloth from Marshall yesterday to use when I rehouse it into a slightly bigger box to use with a 12in. I have just bought another origin 5 combo off eBay for £189 (new) which I’m going to stick the 10in in. Trying to find a schematic to mod it slightly, but the only ones I can find are for the class 5, which whilst similar has a different component order.


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## konrad gibson

I hope you all had a chance to play some of the Origins. Please share your experience, I'd love to hear it, especially if you had your hands on the 50w combo.[/QUOTE]


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