# Farewell, Christians!



## JayCM800

According to this, May 21, 2011 - Noah Knew, WeCanKnow! Christ's Return on Judgment Day: May 21, 2011 the date of the rapture of believers will take place on May 21, 2011 and that God will destroy this world on October 21, 2011

...So i just want to say goodbye to all of you leaving for heaven!


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## tonefreak

apparently written from a pre-tribulation point of view.



SORRY GOD. I'M NOT READY YET!


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## Buggs.Crosby

Let him try that shit in my hood.......Fucker would get rolled


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## willscott182

He better not. i'm supposed to be watching set your goals on 21st May


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## JayCM800

Buggs.Crosby said:


> Let him try that shit in my hood.......Fucker would get rolled


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## diesect20022000

JayCM800 said:


>


I think he was saying God rapturing would get him rolled in his hood.


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## NewReligion




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## Adwex

Damn, I was looking forward to watching the end of the world on 12/21/2012. I'm gonna miss whole thing now, dammit.


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## Lespaulnmarshall

Okeay, fine with me.
I'm getting to see Joe Bonamassa on the 7th of october, and after that I can die peacefully.








Just kiddin' of cource.


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## ItsChrispyTv

luckily i'm agnostic, So fuck that, there is no god who will destroy the earth, and i'll believe it when i see it. Guys if it does happen and we all go to hell, then meet at the Coffee shop at 5 on wednesday! I wanna meet some marshall loves down there in the south


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## Jack92CH

Adwex said:


> Damn, I was looking forward to watching the end of the world on 12/21/2012. I'm gonna miss whole thing now, dammit.



I hear ya. I already had my "end of existence" celebration planned and paid for.


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## Georgiatec

Ads by Google has a Christian Prayer Center ad on this thread...who said irony is dead,,"Post a Prayer Request....thousands will pray for You"...click here


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## StootMonster

Just a quick little thing here, "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father" Mark 13:32

People, if Christ don't know when he's coming back, neither do the idiotic cult leaders.

StootMonster
Marshall Forum's Resident Reverend


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## Jason77

Buggs.Crosby said:


> Let him try that shit in my hood.......Fucker would get rolled



I doubt god would even find your hood with all the jug handles.


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## LesPaulopolis

There's a sign along the highway in MN proclaiming the same...I asked my buddy as we drove past, "Think they paid for the whole month, or demanded a pro-rated rate since the world will be ending and all?"

He suggested we go pick up the lease @ the church starting the 22nd to teach them a lesson.


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## eljeffebrown

StootMonster said:


> Just a quick little thing here, "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father" Mark 13:32
> 
> People, if Christ don't know when he's coming back, neither do the idiotic cult leaders.
> 
> StootMonster
> Marshall Forum's Resident Reverend



Amen Reverend Stoot!


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## Adwex

It's all a buncha baloney.

Adwex,
Marshall Forum's Resident Realist


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## chuckharmonjr

Cant happen...I gotta all-day outdoor mega-show to play that saturday


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## S.A.T.O.

I wish I could verify this and the Mayan stuff...I'd go out and get a few white LP customs and 10, 1959RR full stacks; line them up on the patio and crank the shit out of them.


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## Australian

Will I hand out the boxing gloves now?


Aussie
Marshalls Forums Resident Referee.


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## eljeffebrown

I love the ads being generated by this thread!


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## Buggs.Crosby

eljeffebrown said:


> I love the ads being generated by this thread!



you mean this ad
http://www.christianmingle.com/frsp...c_date_eligible_christians&tsacr=GO7994341144


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## eljeffebrown

Buggs.Crosby said:


> you mean this ad
> http://www.christianmingle.com/frsp...c_date_eligible_christians&tsacr=GO7994341144



I just found my soul, mate!


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## Bieling3

Judgement Day Has A Scheduling Conflict [PIC]


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## vintagevoltage351

The end of the world has a date......! 
i might just "buy" myself that new black Lambo i been eyeing off at the dealership. More Marshalls and guitars etc. 
Make the most of it!

I wonder how lambo's handle in the dirt....


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## poeman33

Maya will protect me as I have the secret code on her pickguard...but just in case she doesn't, my wife has the credit card charged so high it's melting. (and didn't another group "insist" Rome was going to go on May 11th?...and it's still there isn't it?)


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## Lucifuge

Here what is says on the bottom of my page....


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## Jesstaa

I got an ad about pedal fasteners.
I guess even the internet realises it'd be hopeless to even try.

But hey, at least the world ends a couple of days after my birthday.
Anyway, you're all welcome to drop by with your Marshalls any time, just look for me in the deepest layers of hell.


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## JetMech

If the "true believers" are going to heaven, does that mean I get to stay here?


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## Georgiatec

Bieling3 said:


> Judgement Day Has A Scheduling Conflict [PIC]



My money's going on the guy on the left


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## Hollowbody

Those people are idiots, no one knows the future. And they are taking donations? for what? if the world is ending they don't need the ca$h.

I hate users, abusers and accusers.




StootMonster said:


> Just a quick little thing here, "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father" Mark 13:32
> 
> People, if Christ don't know when he's coming back, neither do the idiotic cult leaders.
> 
> StootMonster
> Marshall Forum's Resident Reverend





I think it is cool that even someone who believes in God can see past all the crazy shit out there. ShootMonster agrees with the op original statement and still gets dogged out because of what he believes.

I think there are a lot of hipocrites and there has been a lot of religious oppression everywhere in history but you can't judge one person because you have issues with any religion, regardless.

Ha, I would love to write a blog and just completely fuck with atheists in the entire thing and I could do it all day log because atheism is actually a religion, sounds bass ackwards but it's true and I'm real tired of hearing their bullshit as well. 

I say get over it.


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## willscott182

Hollowbody said:


> Those people are idiots, no one knows the future. And they are taking donations? for what? if the world is ending they don't need the ca$h.
> 
> I hate users, abusers and accusers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think it is cool that even someone who believes in God can see past all the crazy shit out there. ShootMonster agrees with the op original statement and still gets dogged out because of what he believes.
> 
> I think there are a lot of hipocrites out there and there has been a lot of religious oppression everywhere in history but you can't judge one person because you have issues with any religion, regardless.
> 
> Ha, I would love to write a blog and just completely fuck with atheists in the entire thing and I could do it all day log because atheism is actually a religion, sounds bass ackwards but it's true and I'm real tired of hearing their bullshit as well.
> 
> I say get over it.



There was a Derren Brown documentary on overe here (UK) about so called Christian 'healers' in TX. Basically he showed how he could do exactly what they do, which is all tricks, and showed that they take all this money from people for it and end up killing people cos they think they're cured


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## Hollowbody

Yeah I see stuff like that all the time, people actually fall for it too, it's like really good marketing, hate it.


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## hamstercaster

Bieling3 said:


> Judgement Day Has A Scheduling Conflict [PIC]


 
Damn, been seeing those familyradio.com guys in Ottawa for the past week or so and was wondering 

Either way, there ain't any mythical figure coming in and ending the world anytime soon. Lets reconvene at the end of October in good measure.


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## Georgiatec

For millions of years the world has been about to end...earthquakes, meteor impacts, Ice ages, volcanic eruptions etc., etc.,....I love the way these people quote chapter and verse...like they knew the guy, personally. If The Bible was supposedly written by middle eastern prophets....are you prepared to believe them?. That would be like believing Bin Laden, Sadam Hussain & Gaddafi . You can't believe what comes out of there from 2 days ago let alone 2000 years ago. To live your life around a book, what ever your particular faith deems to call it is a fundamental character flaw. Too many people use it as a crutch to prop up their sad lives or a sword with which they administer their "Gods Will". If we must have faith let it be in the human spirit not a holy one, and religion, you can shove it where the sun don't shine.

If you're offended by this I guarantee it's not half as offended as I feel when I get those watchtower wielding half wits knocking at my door.


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## j2112c

I think the Polar Bears have more to worry about than us.
Bless their paws.


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## diesect20022000

Hollowbody said:


> Those people are idiots, no one knows the future. And they are taking donations? for what? if the world is ending they don't need the ca$h.
> 
> I hate users, abusers and accusers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think it is cool that even someone who believes in God can see past all the crazy shit out there. ShootMonster agrees with the op original statement and still gets dogged out because of what he believes.
> 
> I think there are a lot of hipocrites and there has been a lot of religious oppression everywhere in history but you can't judge one person because you have issues with any religion, regardless.
> 
> Ha, I would love to write a blog and just completely fuck with atheists in the entire thing and I could do it all day log because atheism is actually a religion, sounds bass ackwards but it's true and I'm real tired of hearing their bullshit as well.
> 
> I say get over it.


 I don't believe in God but, Stoot's a good guy. I for one wouldn't give him shit for his beliefs. At least he seems to go about it without prejudice and bigotry. He's not ONCE shoved any of his beliefs down my throat. So, i hope people can respect his choice to believe. I personaly am an atheist but, I'm COMFORTABLE with myself and others so i see no need to attack someone else for believing. Now, I'll "Like" comments based on my agreement with them or if they're flat out funny to me but, that's not anything but, liking them for what they mean to me.

There are others on here who believe as well, or have other beliefs. I personaly LOVE hearing about them and WHY they believe. It's nice to see alternative life perspectives if you can forgo your personal sentiment and just listen.

I agree with you though, he's good people simply put imo.


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## Adwex

Hollowbody said:


> Those people are idiots, no one knows the future. And they are taking donations? for what? if the world is ending they don't need the ca$h.
> 
> I hate users, abusers and accusers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think it is cool that even someone who believes in God can see past all the crazy shit out there. ShootMonster agrees with the op original statement and still gets dogged out because of what he believes.
> 
> I think there are a lot of hipocrites and there has been a lot of religious oppression everywhere in history but you can't judge one person because you have issues with any religion, regardless.
> 
> Ha, I would love to write a blog and just completely fuck with atheists in the entire thing and I could do it all day log because atheism is actually a religion, sounds bass ackwards but it's true and I'm real tired of hearing their bullshit as well.
> 
> I say get over it.



-No one dogged Stoot for his beliefs.

-Atheism is not a religion, it is the absense of religion.


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## chuckmehh

Hollowbody said:


> Yeah I see stuff like that all the time, people actually fall for it too, it's like really good marketing, hate it.



See my blog for a similar thought to yours 

friedstir


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## tbwrench

StootMonster said:


> Just a quick little thing here, "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father" Mark 13:32
> 
> People, if Christ don't know when he's coming back, neither do the idiotic cult leaders.
> 
> StootMonster
> Marshall Forum's Resident Reverend



This is TRUE.

Any one who knows the bible and its context knows these predictors are false prophets. Take a look around our world, anyone wondering what might be going on?

God owes Isreal 7 more years the end of the world won't happen before that. That 7 years is the beginning of the Tribulation. It has not yet begun. When you see Damascus destroyed , never to be inhabited again I would be concerned. Anyone whe is a bible scholar will catch my drift.

And BTW, if some person comes as a spokesperson for god and asks for money be very concerned, last I checked the creator of the universe was not broke.


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## Jason77

i just want to figure out how to get their money. i mean, if they really believe the world s going to end, then their savings is meaningless. and since they don't seem to be living it up and blowing through it, i'll gladly take their useless money off their hands.


i also should have started planning this months ago.


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## dptone5

StootMonster said:


> Just a quick little thing here, "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father" Mark 13:32
> 
> People, if Christ don't know when he's coming back, neither do the idiotic cult leaders.
> 
> StootMonster
> Marshall Forum's Resident Reverend



Well said StootMonster. I'm a follower of Christ and I'm hoping He doesn't come back on 5/21/11.....I just got a Les Paul!! 

Can I take it with me, along with the Marshalls??? PLEASE!!!


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## Papus

Dear Jesus, save me..........
















...from your followers!!!!!

I'm looking forward to all those morons being "taken up" so that sanity and reason can rule the earth again


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## LPMarshall hack

Well, shit. Should I schedule my son's birthday party earlier then? His birthday is on the 22nd!!!!! I'd hate to miss it.


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## Bieling3

Papus said:


> Dear Jesus, save me..........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...from your followers!!!!!
> 
> I'm looking forward to all those morons being "taken up" so that sanity and reason can rule the earth again


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## willscott182

In a thousand years or so will people worship Gandalf. kind of the same thing?


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## poeman33

DPTONE5 said:


> Well said StootMonster. I'm a follower of Christ and I'm hoping He doesn't come back on 5/21/11.....I just got a Les Paul!!
> 
> Can I take it with me, along with the Marshalls??? PLEASE!!!



All that preaching of hope, love and kindness in the new testament sure sounds pretty hippie like to me. I think Jesus would be pretty cool with a LP and a Marshall. I wouldn't be suprised to see him descend with a 62 Strat and a wall of Plexis.


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## Hollowbody

Adwex said:


> -No one dogged Stoot for his beliefs.



OK.




Adwex said:


> --Atheism is not a religion, it is the absense of religion.



Religion is also a belief system, you have to believe there is no god, and people get real righteous about not believeing in god. I have also seen athiests pass their own jugement on people who do believe in god as much as any self righteous judgemental christian. So to me there is no difference.
...dudes like Shoot are cool.


I guess I just see that many people around the world are dogged, sometimes to death (literally) for what ever religion they are and I always appreciate that we are still able to practise our beliefs.

I want to keep it that way or I could just move to a country that raids churches *and* builds shitty transformers. 

But I also understand why some on the forum would find all this subject tasteless and want to have a "no religion/politics" rule.


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## Hollowbody

Papus said:


> Dear Jesus, save me....
> 
> 
> 
> ...from your followers!!!!!
> 
> I'm looking forward to all those morons being "taken up" so that sanity and reason can rule the earth again





Has sanity and reason ever ruled the earth?


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## Hollowbody

Georgiatec said:


> For millions of years the world has been about to end...earthquakes, meteor impacts, Ice ages, volcanic eruptions etc., etc.,....I love the way these people quote chapter and verse...like they knew the guy, personally. If The Bible was supposedly written by middle eastern prophets....are you prepared to believe them?. That would be like believing Bin Laden, Sadam Hussain & Gaddafi .  You can't believe what comes out of there from 2 days ago let alone 2000 years ago. To live your life around a book, what ever your particular faith deems to call it is a fundamental character flaw. Too many people use it as a crutch to prop up their sad lives or a sword with which they administer their "Gods Will". If we must have faith let it be in the human spirit not a holy one, and religion, you can shove it where the sun don't shine.
> 
> If you're offended by this I guarantee it's not half as offended as I feel when I get those watchtower wielding half wits knocking at my door.



So you are saying all middle eastern prophets are just like middle eastern terrorists? I guess all people from your home town are also exactly the same.


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## Adwex

Hollowbody said:


> ......But I also understand why some on the forum would find all this subject tasteless and want to have a "no religion/politics" rule.



"Tasteless" is not really the right word. The problem with this subject is that one's views on politics and religion are very personal and can elicit extremely passionate feelings that can strongly oppose another's. This can result in fierce, divisive arguments that I have personally experienced at my own family gatherings, so we have all decided to keep those discussions to ourselves to keep the peace...and keeping the peace is my main objective here.


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## scat7s

i think these conversations are a million times more interesting that a lot of the 'topics' that get brought up here. but variety is....


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## Adwex

scat7s said:


> i think these conversations are a million times more interesting that a lot of the 'topics' that get brought up here. but variety is....



Interesting, yes, as long as they remain "conversations".

...and this thread has diverted from its original intention, which was to discuss the upcoming day the world will end, not religion in general.


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## Hollowbody

Adwex said:


> "Tasteless" is not really the right word. The problem with this subject is that one's views on politics and religion are very personal and can elicit extremely passionate feelings that can strongly oppose another's. This can result in fierce, divisive arguments that I have personally experienced at my own family gatherings, so we have all decided to keep those discussions to ourselves to keep the peace...and keeping the peace is my main objective here.




Ok.


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## Adwex

Hollowbody said:


> Ok.



That doesn't mean that these discussions are forbidden here, as long as they stay civil.


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## Hollowbody

Adwex said:


> Interesting, yes, as long as they remain "conversations".
> 
> ...and this thread has diverted from its original intention, which was to discuss the upcoming day the world will end, not religion in general.



Really?




JayCM800 said:


> According to this, May 21, 2011 - Noah Knew, WeCanKnow! Christ's Return on Judgment Day: May 21, 2011 the date of the rapture of believers will take place on May 21, 2011 and that God will destroy this world on October 21, 2011
> 
> 
> ...So i just want to say goodbye to all of you leaving for heaven!




Ok.

Anyway, lots of threads have evolved to subjects that were different but similar to the original post with no problem or complaint from the moderator.

I'll make a prediction. Adwex is going to close this thread, but more for his personal opinion and reasons than any forum rules.


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## Hollowbody

Eh, maybe that was harsh for me to say Adwex.

Sorry.




Hollowbody
Marshall Forum's Resident Asshole


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## Adwex

Hollowbody said:


> Eh, maybe that was harsh for me to say Adwex.
> 
> Sorry.



A little....no biggie. I would NEVER close a thread because it conflicts with my personal views.


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## Adwex

Hollowbody said:


> ....Anyway, lots of threads have evolved to subjects that were different but similar to the original post with no problem or complaint from the moderator.
> 
> I'll make a prediction. Adwex is going to close this thread, but more for his personal opinion and reasons than any forum rules.



-I don't have a problem with it, nor did I complain, I was merely trying to guide the discussion back on track. That doesn't mean it can't continue in any direction. Feel free to talk about anything you want.

-There are no rules that forbid discussion of religion or politics, just ugly arguments. Alot of us may remember one of the worst fights that ever happened here was the stereo debacle.


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## Moose Lewis

I'm going to grab an acoustic and teleport back to my space ship behind the comet until after all the traffic from the ascension passes.

Then maybe on the 22nd, we can all get back down to Earth and start preparations for the _real_ end of the World scheduled for next year.


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## TwinACStacks

ANY CHRISTIAN can tell you that ONLY GOD HIMSELF knows what date he will put an end to the suffering on this world.

You can bank on it.

 TWIN


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## LPMarshall hack

The world will end one day...







(in about 5 billion years)


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## Landshark

I just gotta say it cause I want to make sure everyone get's it... Not all believers are nut jobs. I love Jesus. I'll log on May 22 and tell you all so... Provided the good Lord doesn't come back May 20th just for spite.


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## Papus

TwinACStacks said:


> ANY CHRISTIAN can tell you that ONLY GOD HIMSELF knows what date he will put an end to the suffering on this world.
> 
> You can bank on it.
> 
> TWIN



Which god would that be? - 
Osiris?
Attis?
Marduk?
Apollo?
Dionysius?
Krishna?
Yahweh?
Thor?
Zeus?
Jupiter?
Ishtar?
The Rainbow Serpent?
Freya?
Eric Clapton?

.....so many to choose from


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## Hollowbody

You forgot Keeley Hazell.


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## StootMonster

Papus said:


> Which god would that be? -
> Osiris?
> Attis?
> Marduk?
> Apollo?
> Dionysius?
> Krishna?
> Yahweh?
> Thor?
> Zeus?
> Jupiter?
> Ishtar?
> The Rainbow Serpent?
> Freya?
> Eric Clapton?
> 
> .....so many to choose from




You forgot:

Jesus
God
Yahweh
Adonai
Jehovah-Yahweh
Jehova-Maccaddeshem
Jehovah-Rohi
Jehovah-Shammah
Jehovah-Rapha
Jehovah-Tsidkenu
Jehovah-Jireh
Jehova-Nissi
Jehovah-Shalom
El
El-Elyon
El-Roi
El-Shaddai
El-Olam

...the nerve.


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## Hollowbody

This is just a respectful observation.

Papus listed a bunch of different names of gods, where did he find all those names? Does he know a lot about all those gods?




Then ShootMonster listed a bunch of names...


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## StootMonster

Google is a wonderful thing

LOL


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## Salsg

Both of them are wrong. 
To claim to know the end of the world religiously or thru imperfect science is silly.
And don't start with "you can't argue with science." Yes, yes you can. Science is from man and man is flawed. Our science once said our earth was flat. How many things will change in 100 years that we "know" today?


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## Adwex

Salsg said:


> Both of them are wrong.
> To claim to know the end of the world religiously or thru imperfect science is silly.
> And don't start with "you can't argue with science." Yes, yes you can. Science is from man and man is flawed. Our science once said our earth was flat. How many things will change in 100 years that we "know" today?



Science is not "from man", it is from nature. Man makes discoveries about nature and attempts to explain them using scientific principles. Science did not say our earth was flat, man did, because he was ignorant of the science at the time.


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## Buggs.Crosby

God will Fuck you up!
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75UeVLbkXeg]YouTube - God Will Fuck You Up[/ame]


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## Buggs.Crosby

Dont Fuck with my Sheep!......Or God will Fuck you up!


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## Papus

All of the gods I listed are largely dead, buried, forgotten and no longer worshipped or believed to exist (with the exception of Clapton - I believe he exists, I've seen the DVD's).
Just as we have discarded those gods, why should we not discard _____ (insert deity) along with them?


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## Landshark

Do we discard Dio because he's dead?

Edit: I hope someone gets this...


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## Australian

Papus said:


> All of the gods I listed are largely dead, buried, forgotten and no longer worshipped or believed to exist (with the exception of Clapton - I believe he exists, I've seen the DVD's).
> Just as we have discarded those gods, why should we not discard _____ (insert deity) along with them?



Sorry, but if you think that you can bury or kill a God, then youre talking about Demi-Gods.


Who makes more sense Sting, or the 'Gestapo' from Frankenstein?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHOevX4DlGk[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zw5pmDgWMaU]YouTube - Young Frankenstein Riot[/ame]


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## Papus

Man killed god centuries ago.

Regarding Dio: like Obi-Wan Kenobi, Dio's powers only increased with his passing 

*edit* - everytime I see a rainbow thesedays I no longer remember the story of Noah's Ark, instead I remember DIO!!!!!!!!!
corollary: God, being outside of time, created retroactively the rainbow and spread the Noah myth to explain it to the masses until the REAL reason was born: DIO!!!!!!


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## drewz120

Papus your just as bad as the people who tell you that you have to believe and cram stuff down your throat.

No one out there knows anything for sure. I love it when people who complain that no god exists have no further proof than those who say he does. 

Here is an example of your faith: You probably believe the splitting of atoms is possible yet you have never seen it with your own eyes. You believe that the hedron collider can have two particles collide but you have never seen it.

You believe it because a group of limited people told you so. Whats the difference?


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## Papus

According to the general rules of rhetoric, the onus of proof rests with the positive argument.
In other words, one does not need to nor can one actually prove a negative, eg. "Prove that God doesn't exist" does not require a response.
The statement "Prove that God exists" DEMANDS a response from the proponent of the positive argument.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof
- Carl Sagan


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## Bieling3

Papus said:


> According to the general rules of rhetoric, the onus of proof rests with the positive argument.
> In other words, one does not need to nor can one actually prove a negative, eg. "Prove that God doesn't exist" does not require a response.
> The statement "Prove that God exists" DEMANDS a response from the proponent of the positive argument.



Which goes back to my comment on the philosophy thread...

http://www.marshallforum.com/backstage/27680-philosophy-thread.html#post372008


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## Landshark

Papus said:


> According to the general rules of rhetoric, the onus of proof rests with the positive argument.
> In other words, one does not need to nor can one actually prove a negative, eg. "Prove that God doesn't exist" does not require a response.


 
So "Prove God doesn't exist..." If I were an atheist I'd see non-existence as a positive argument. But I understand what you mean.


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## Landshark

I think this all just about comes to moot point.


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## Bieling3

If it hasn't already it will be by next weekend.


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## Georgiatec

Science is the art of nosy people trying to expalin what goes on in nature. Religion is the art of sticking your head in the sand and shaking like fuck. Neither of these persuasions have managed to stop millions of people being wiped out in natural disasters...shit happens live (or die) with it. 
Now the important stuff...my DSL100 sounded top yesterday at band practice.


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## Adwex

Papus said:


> According to the general rules of rhetoric, the onus of proof rests with the positive argument.
> In other words, one does not need to nor can one actually prove a negative, eg. "Prove that God doesn't exist" does not require a response.
> The statement "Prove that God exists" DEMANDS a response from the proponent of the positive argument.
> 
> Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof
> - Carl Sagan



Thank you.


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## Moose Lewis

We're having an End of the World party on Saturday... then going shopping for Raptured vehicles on Sunday. I'm hoping to find something electric; but will probably have to settle for a Suburban.


----------



## Hollowbody

Come on, seriously? "Science is from nature"

Science is man's study of his environment. Nature doesn't study or test anything, nature is the subject of man's study. Man is the only thing on this planet that uses that level of analytical thinking.

Science still can't explain many things and I don't think it will be able to. I would hate to live my life knowing just what I know through my basic 5 senses and memory of experience.

Science will never explain love, never.

People worship science as much as they do any god.


----------



## Adwex

Georgiatec said:


> Science is the art of nosy people trying to expalin what goes on in nature. ....



"Nosy people"?? You've gotta be kidding me.


----------



## Hollowbody

Yeah, I don't get the nosy people thing, must be humor.

Maybe curious people though.


----------



## Adwex

I'm outta this conversation.


----------



## Hollowbody

No don't go


----------



## Georgiatec

Adwex said:


> "Nosy people"?? You've gotta be kidding me.



I couldn't spell inquisitive...shit and now I can!!!...it's a miracle!!


----------



## Michael1987xl

If Jesus Christ and Stephen Hawking read this thread, when they got to the end of it, they'd look at each other, JC would hop on Hawking's lap and they'd _both_ drive his wheelchair down a flight of stairs.

Holy shit, people.


----------



## diesect20022000

Join us next week in "The days of our lives"...


----------



## Michael1987xl

To put this all in perspective for you guys, the best thing about this thread so far is that the chick in the Mormon ad that shows if you scroll through when you're not signed in is actually kind of cute.


----------



## JayCM800

Wrote a song today: "After Rapture Looting Party"


----------



## Las Palmas Norte

This guy's got it right!

Heaven is a fairy story - Stephen Hawking | News.com.au


----------



## scat7s

fuck stephen hawking, he's a pawn. 

and herein lies the problem. the intellectual elite cant possibly comprehend, that there exists a force or creator that they themselves are incapable of comprehending! 

smart dude? sure, but i wouldnt take spiritual advise from him. 

b/c he can theorize electromagnetic emission from blackholes doesnt mean anyone should believe he has any better answer on life after death than anyone else.

fuck him.


----------



## chuckharmonjr

I can see it all now. We'll be playing that all-day concert...on the new outdoor arena stage at Burnouts...it'll be right in the middle of our set..I'll be dead in the middle of the main solo in Voodoo Chile (Hendrix version) and BLAAAAAM the trumpets flare. Course one good thing about it, the chicks that are left will be the party animals.


----------



## IronMaidenNutter

Next year, really? Carnada better get his game on quickly if he doesnt want to die a virgin!


----------



## Bourbon Development

Does this mean I should ready my axe for the onslaught of frost giants? Because I was kinda hoping to grill some burgers that weekend.


----------



## JayCM800

IronMaidenNutter said:


> Next year, really? Carnada better get his game on quickly if he doesnt want to die a virgin!


Not next year, NEXT WEEK!!! LOL ...unless your Mayan!


----------



## Las Palmas Norte

scat7s said:


> and herein lies the problem. the intellectual elite cant possibly comprehend, that there exists a force or creator that they themselves are incapable of comprehending!
> ........ doesnt mean anyone should believe he has any better answer on life after death than anyone else.



Perhpas not any better answers, but a more educated one.
Too many folks believe the "invisible man in the sky" theory, who over sees everything we do, 10 comandments BS.
I'm grillin' burgers no matter what 

Cheers, Barrie.


----------



## longfxukxnhair

JayCM800 said:


> According to this, May 21, 2011 - Noah Knew, WeCanKnow! Christ's Return on Judgment Day: May 21, 2011 the date of the rapture of believers will take place on May 21, 2011 and that God will destroy this world on October 21, 2011
> 
> ...So i just want to say goodbye to all of you leaving for heaven!



The people who claim this to be true have a right to believe in what they wish. I believe only GOD knows when.

That being said, I find this thread insulting. I am tired of people who believe in GOD or are religious being attacked in some form or another. I am tired of Islam being off limits but Christians are fair game. Im tired of Atheist telling us what we can celebrate or how we can & that they dont want to be exposed to it. Im tired of "enlightened" people (often liberals) who claim that we are wrong in our beliefs. That those who believe in a "fairy in the sky" are stupid. No one knows until they are dead. NO ONE!


----------



## Australian

Something we can all agree on. A world without this would be chaos:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution


----------



## JayCM800

scat7s said:


> fuck stephen hawking, he's a pawn.
> 
> and herein lies the problem. the intellectual elite cant possibly comprehend, that there exists a force or creator that they themselves are incapable of comprehending!
> 
> smart dude? sure, but i wouldnt take spiritual advise from him.
> 
> b/c he can theorize electromagnetic emission from blackholes doesnt mean anyone should believe he has any better answer on life after death than anyone else.
> 
> fuck him.


True that!


----------



## dptone5

The Christians I hang with are authentic, real and follow the greatest commandment - To love the Lord their God with all of their hearts, souls and minds. Don't forget that Jesus taught that along with this - that His followers are to love one's neighbor as oneself.

Although portrayed by some as crazy, non-intellectual, weak people, the Christians I know are strong in their faith, committed to serving and loving others, strong in their convictions and real in their struggles. 

When I read some of the hate directed to Christians, I often wonder if the person who has so much disdain for them has ever met a true Christian and sat down to have an intellectual conversation with them??

I have a degree in Electrical Engineering and enjoy physics. I don't see any contradiction between my faith and science. Sure, there are things I don't understand, and I'm okay with that. I don't see where people get the notion that to be a Christian, one has to check their brains in at the door. Some of my Christian friends are lawyers, doctors, accountants, business owners, professors, teachers......these folks aren't dumb!!

The Christian faith accurately describes the condition of mankind (our nature, struggles and needs). I truly believe that God is real and that he saved me. By reading His Word, He has changed me for the better from the inside out. He has given me a peace in my heart that goes beyond understanding. I have seen miraculous answer to prayer, not only in my own life, but in the life of other Christians.

I realize that not everyone will believe. Jesus clearly taught that. I hope that for those that have not come to experience saving faith, that someday they will meet a true Christian who will extend Christ's love to them.

When I speak with others, I listen to their beliefs and viewpoints. I respect people and when we have to agree to disagree, I'm okay with that. I only ask that as I respectfully consider another's viewpoint, that they extend the same respect to me.

Unfortunately, religion and politics leads to more than spirited debate and the exchange of ideas. There is nothing wrong with being passionate about our point of view. We shouldn't however, have to ridicule or put down those that have a different opinion.


----------



## Buggs.Crosby

All i know for sure is this is a one sided fight.........either me and people like me will be doing what we do best......or we will all be dead and this discussion will no longer matter


----------



## StootMonster

You matter, Buggs.


----------



## Landshark

Las Palmas Norte said:


> Perhpas not any better answers, but a more educated one.
> Too many folks believe the "invisible man in the sky" theory, who over sees everything we do, 10 comandments BS.
> I'm grillin' burgers no matter what
> 
> Cheers, Barrie.



How can being better educated make his answers more valid in an argument the living have aout what happens when you're dead? He is still living (if you want to call it that) after all... Being educated only means you know more theories, which means you know more BS that man made up (about post death) then normal people do.

I don't trust the educated or "enlightened" as some claim to be... you can't be educated or enlightened to something everyone is absolutely ignorant to.


----------



## Landshark

longfxukxnhair said:


> The people who claim this to be true have a right to believe in what they wish. I believe only GOD knows when.
> 
> That being said, I find this thread insulting. I am tired of people who believe in GOD or are religious being attacked in some form or another. I am tired of Islam being off limits but Christians are fair game. Im tired of Atheist telling us what we can celebrate or how we can & that they dont want to be exposed to it. Im tired of "enlightened" people (often liberals) who claim that we are wrong in our beliefs. That those who believe in a "fairy in the sky" are stupid. No one knows until they are dead. NO ONE!



Dead on!


----------



## Papus

If there is a god then how do you explain Justin Beiber?


----------



## diesect20022000

longfxukxnhair said:


> The people who claim this to be true have a right to believe in what they wish. I believe only GOD knows when.
> 
> That being said, I find this thread insulting. I am tired of people who believe in GOD or are religious being attacked in some form or another. I am tired of Islam being off limits but Christians are fair game. Im tired of Atheist telling us what we can celebrate or how we can & that they dont want to be exposed to it. Im tired of "enlightened" people (often liberals) who claim that we are wrong in our beliefs. That those who believe in a "fairy in the sky" are stupid. No one knows until they are dead. NO ONE!


 I'm an atheist but, I firmly support your choice in beliefs and have respect for it. I don't think JOKES about anything are off limits personaly, we all love a laugh just some take things too seriously.
I also don't feel that any of us are smarter because of what we beieve in or not in.
I think it's great that you, Stoot and many others have faith. There's not a thing wrong with it and if it makes you happy who's right is it to judge that?
I agree with you in general basicaly. I'm tired of people on any side attacking any other side. Who cares? Like you said, we won't truly know 'till we're dead anyway. You stoot and Chuck are clearly NOT stupid and anyone saying so based off your religious preferences is frankly...prejudiced in my opinion.

I will say, some of the jokes on here were funny but, some things were a bit nasty and biting. Spite doesn't convince anyone of anything except the spiteful person being wrong...even if they aren't wrong. it breeds contempt. Eff what people say about your beliefs, they're YOURS and noone can take that from you but you.

From your friendly local atheist supporter of FREEDOM OF CHOICE.


----------



## poeman33

Papus said:


> If there is a god then how do you explain Justin Beiber?



How else could you explain his popularity? Some one called in some favours. Or instead of God, it's the Devil punishing us Marshall guys for our evils.


----------



## Landshark

Papus said:


> If there is a god then how do you explain Justin Beiber?



Illuminati


----------



## Wycked Lester

now, what is the end of the world again? Is it the end of the rock we call home, "earth", is it going to blow apart or something?,.....or is it simply the end of mankind?,.....or is it the end of mankind and all other life but the rock itself is going to be OK?

I know that the milky way is on a collision course with the Andromeda galaxy. We are scheduled to collide in about 4.5 billion years.....I'd say that might fuck some shit up.

.....what a cool site that will be to see though,...in about 4 billion years. The Andromeda galaxy will be close enough at that point to take up the whole sky, or at least most of it.


----------



## Georgiatec

Papus said:


> If there is a god then how do you explain Justin Beiber?



J.C......J.B.....would serve us right really


----------



## Roadburn

Ending your subscription to World of World?

Can I have your gear please?!?


----------



## Buggs.Crosby

longfxukxnhair said:


> The people who claim this to be true have a right to believe in what they wish. I believe only GOD knows when.
> 
> That being said, I find this thread insulting. I am tired of people who believe in GOD or are religious being attacked in some form or another. I am tired of Islam being off limits but Christians are fair game. Im tired of Atheist telling us what we can celebrate or how we can & that they dont want to be exposed to it. Im tired of "enlightened" people (often liberals) who claim that we are wrong in our beliefs. That those who believe in a "fairy in the sky" are stupid. No one knows until they are dead. NO ONE!



I totally agree with you to a point in that i don't care what people believe and it is their choice.....but i do have to ask......why cant i decided for myself?
I dont knock on peoples doors to spread my word.....nor do i have any laws enacted because of what a book told me is right and wrong
How many world wars were started or fought in the name of religion?

This all still holds true today....in some towns i am not allowed to buy beer on a Sunday....here is a law i do not agree with that is based off of religion

What if i was gay and wanted to get married?......lots of laws on that one
I could go on and on with these law issues
So am i wrong when and if i speak out against said laws?. seems that way 
Most Atheists dont force their ways upon others......yet we always get that knock at the door....or we suffer at the hands of a law that was based off of a book


i have said it a million times i do believe someone like Jesus/Allah/Jehovah existed and were the same person. A Philosopher that spoke about reality for the times at hand....It does not take a genius to understand when someone says something that makes perfect sense
Again i do not need a book or belief to tell me what it is wrong nor do i need a law based off a book that has been translated'. And i'm pretty sure manipulated for the further advancement of an ideal


----------



## StootMonster

Keep in mind that the Christian crusades had absolutely nothing to do with Christianity. It was exactly what you said. Something someone manipulated to further their own agenda.

Not buying beer on a Sunday? Not scriptural. I was a musician at a church about a year or so ago and along the way, the pastor found out that on occasion, I like to have a nice cold beer. I don't hide that, there's nothing wrong with it. Well, his own beliefs are that the mentioning in the bible of Jesus drinking wine with the desciples and where jesus turned water into wine, well... that was Grape Juice. Yep. Grape Juice. I laughed in his face. He didn't think that alcohol has any place in a Christian's life. 

This is just an example of how some people feel so "godly" that they think they can now further the teachings of Christ and expand upon the areas that Jesus "didn't get to". As though Christ was too busy, that he forgot. 

I don't particularly agree with how some people think is the proper way to "spread the gospel" as far as knocking on people's doors. I know quite a bit about the bible and have been known to invite the different religions into my house and see exactly how much they know... sometimes you'd be surprised at how much they DON'T know. They are just doing their pastor's bidding and spreading the teachings of their CHURCH and not the teachings of GOD.

The best way to show someone God is to do the only 2 commands that Jesus gave which have already been covered by someone: 1) Love God with all your heart mind and body 2) Love your neighbor as yourself. He said that sums all the commands given and all the laws of God. 

He did NOT say to: Judge your neighbor, single out people who are caught up in what you think is the worst sin imaginable... 

Guys, if you ever meet a Christian who judges you based on appearance or whatever and snubs their nose up at you... They are not a good representative of Christianity - if they are a Christian at all.

I'm not trying to debate things in here, just trying to clear up some misnomers that I've been reading. I try to stay out of theological debates, because they are absolutely pointless, but for the sake of clearing up some misinformation I will. 

The unfortunate fact here on Earth (and this pertains to just about any religion that worships a "god"), you cannot always judge God by his followers. We are people and you don't have to be all that wise to know that sometimes you want to do good, but you end up doing the opposite as what you intended, no matter how hard you tried. Welcome to humanity.

Alright, I'll get off it before I end up typing out a whole book here.

Stoots


----------



## Buggs.Crosby

Stoot you made my point even more valid.....Religion in this day in age is what people make of it....Everybody bends it to their own needs and there is nothing wrong with that in my opinion. If believing in God makes someone feel better about life and makes their day so be it...But i makes my opinion regarding religious laws even more valid

here is my point 
"As of 2007, seven states have language included in their constitutions that requires state office-holders to have particular religious beliefs. These states are Texas, Massachusetts, Maryland, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, and Tennessee"

"The no religious test clause of the U.S. constitution states that "no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States." Although it has become tradition for US presidents to end their Presidential Oath with "so help me God", this is not required by the Constitution. However, the Vice President, the House of Representatives, the Senate, the members of the Cabinet, and all other civil and military officers and federal employees other than the President are required to take an oath ending with "so help me God."

"Some state constitutions in the US require belief in God or a Supreme Being as a prerequisite for holding public office or being a witness in court. This applies to Arkansas, Maryland, Mississippi, North Carolina, where the requirement was challenged and overturned in Voswinkel v. Hunt (1979),South Carolina, Tennessee Texas and Pennsylvania, . A unanimous 1961 U.S. Supreme Court decision in Torcaso v. Watkins held that the First and Fourteenth Amendments to the federal Constitution override these state requirements, so they are not enforced. Not Enforced

"Several private organizations, the most notable being the Boy Scouts of America, do not allow atheist members.[70] However, this policy has come under fire by organizations who assert that the Boy Scouts of America do benefit from taxpayer money and thus cannot be called a truly private organization, and thus must admit atheists (along with homosexuals, and others currently barred from membership)"
Yet they still will not accept you if you are open about your beliefs

"In some U.S. jurisdictions legal restrictions exist which require a religious test as a qualification for holding public office, for instance in Texas an official may be "excluded from holding office" if he/she does not "acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being." (i.e. God) [78] thus atheists, agnostics, Buddhists, most Satanists, some Unitarian Universalists and New Age followers, who do not believe in a supreme being would be excluded from public office....Stiil holds true today

My bottom line is when someone tells me i'm wrong for attacking an ideology that wants to attack my way of living or "Beliefs" yet feel they should be protected when i confront them. It's a double standard that not only still exists but is not enforced
Again Religion today is what each individual makes of it....So who is right and who is wrong?. And why is it me and my Atheist followers are always challenged and or condemned?


----------



## StootMonster

I think it's pretty safe to conclude that the "so help me God" section started off not as a requirement for anything, but basically (and since back then Christianity was the framework of most of the things our Constitution was built upon) it was a something that made sure the person taking the oath understood the seriousness of what they were saying, because nobody wanted to make an oath to God himself and break it.

Since then, thing have obviously changed. But like most things, to understand it, you have to understand the context of the situation around the event and the words to fully get the 'why'.


----------



## scat7s

justin bieber




Landshark said:


> Illuminati


 

thank you for saying it for me.

i would suggest that there are VERY few organically popular pop/rock/movie stars these days.

it is more beneficial to those who have certain tasks/agendas to carry out that our most popular characters are engineered. 

same as our politicians, no? born and raised for the job in some cases. 

these characters help to shape our views opinions and attitudes. they are invented, to have a safely predictable outcome. your children are under constant attack in this way, and so are you. 

how about those of you with preteen kids? have you ever sat down and watched an afternoon or evening of programming on the disney channel? 

your childrens, and by extension, YOUR values, morals, and attitudes are under attack.


----------



## Georgiatec

Buggs.Crosby said:


> i have said it a million times i do believe someone like Jesus/Allah/Jehovah existed and were the same person. A Philosopher that spoke about reality for the times at hand....It does not take a genius to understand when someone says something that makes perfect sense



Kinda like Bob Dylan with sandals eh Buggs. I agree.


----------



## Jack92CH

I am God.


----------



## Georgiatec

Jack92CH said:


> I am God.



Hey Eric....you could have told us you were on here


----------



## IronMaidenNutter

Oh its next week? hahaha! I bet my nutty extreme christian sister doesnt believe this shit lol.


----------



## longfxukxnhair

Buggs.Crosby said:


> I totally agree with you to a point in that i don't care what people believe and it is their choice.....but i do have to ask......why cant i decided for myself?



I totally agree with you. I dont give a fuck what anyone believes. That is their business and belief system. I am all for self determination!!!!!!

I am all about making jokes. I dont care if you are black or white. Man or woman. Islamic or Christian. Its all fair game. But the rules must apply equally no matter which road we go down. 


Politically correct is for pussies and people who cant handle or exercise the 1st amendment!


----------



## splatter

StootMonster said:


> Just a quick little thing here, "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father" Mark 13:32
> 
> People, if Christ don't know when he's coming back, neither do the idiotic cult leaders.
> 
> StootMonster
> Marshall Forum's Resident Reverend


+1


----------



## scat7s

Georgiatec said:


> Kinda like Bob Dylan with sandals eh Buggs. I agree.


 
except that dylan is a satanist


----------



## StootMonster

scat7s said:


> except that dylan is a satanist



I thought Satan was a Dylanist?


----------



## j2112c

Not much time left boys.. I would so pissed off if the world ends on the 21st, I get paid on the 28th.

I bet the gas/electricity/council tax guys are already bringing the direct debit date forward avoid the catastrophe of not getting paid before we are incinerated.

Some arse will be stocking up on Sun Cream and Sunglasses.... if the shelves are empty, you will know there are some believers out there.


----------



## Landshark

There's actually people selling houses, cars, posessions, (Maybe Marshalls... better get on Pbay) and all kinds of stuff thinking this is real... I'd like to score a sweet deal off of the stupidity.


----------



## Georgiatec

j2112c said:


> Not much time left boys.. I would so pissed off if the world ends on the 21st, I get paid on the 28th.
> 
> I bet the gas/electricity/council tax guys are already bringing the direct debit date forward avoid the catastrophe of not getting paid before we are incinerated.
> 
> Some arse will be stocking up on Sun Cream and Sunglasses.... if the shelves are empty, you will know there are some believers out there.



Look on the bright side John at least this thread will end....Imagine how sad peoples lives must be to play albums backwards looking for hidden messages. What if just to fuck with peoples minds the REAL hidden messages were in another language. Anyway a bit nippy today so I'm just going to put some more Beatles albums on the fire


----------



## Georgiatec

Landshark said:


> There's actually people selling houses, cars, posessions, (Maybe Marshalls... better get on Pbay) and all kinds of stuff thinking this is real... I'd like to score a sweet deal off of the stupidity.



As the saying goes....ONLY IN AMERICA!!


----------



## j2112c

Landshark said:


> There's actually people selling houses, cars, posessions, (Maybe Marshalls... better get on Pbay) and all kinds of stuff thinking this is real... I'd like to score a sweet deal off of the stupidity.



..but the question is... what are they going to do with the money? 

They cannot save it, take it with them and there is no point buying more stuff!


I don't think giving it to charity this late in the day will put them in the good books!

That said... donations to: John Clark near Cardiff UK would be very much appreciated and I will provide a good testament for donators..


----------



## Michael1987xl

We need to start putting a song list together for Saturday. If anybody's throwing a barbecue to celebrate the end of the world, we're gonna need some music to make a theme of it.

So far I've got "The End of The World as We Know It" by R.E.M., "The Eve of Destruction" by the Rolling Stones, "Armageddon It" by Def Leppard. Feel free to pipe in.

Oh, yeah, and "Who's Sorry Now" by Connie Francis, like, just in case....


----------



## thetragichero

anybody else up for looting on sunday?


----------



## MM54

thetragichero said:


> anybody else up for looting on sunday?



Dibs on my high school's tons of nice old electronics test equipment they don't use anymore for anything but still refuse to sell to me


----------



## Buggs.Crosby

Michael1987xl said:


> We need to start putting a song list together for Saturday. If anybody's throwing a barbecue to celebrate the end of the world, we're gonna need some music to make a theme of it.



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xo4cXfMaN4]YouTube - Plasmatics - Lightning Breaks[/ame]



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCEeAn6_QJo]YouTube - Tool - Ænema [uncut version - hq - fullscreen][/ame]


----------



## Buggs.Crosby

Learn to Swim


----------



## Jason77

i'm surprised nobody mentioned "highway to hell" since we'll be the ones left behind.


----------



## diesect20022000

MM54 said:


> Dibs on my high school's tons of nice old electronics test equipment they don't use anymore for anything but still refuse to sell to me


 dibs on guitar center.


----------



## Jason77

so who's going to use the "this might be our last night" line on the women at bar on friday?


----------



## thetragichero

i'll be listening to blondie - rapture on repeat. if i'm gonna die, there's no better way to go out


----------



## j2112c

Dio - The Last In Line.

End of the World Barbie.. great idea... might have one of those.


Dibs on ASDAs meat section.... could be a while before it is ever prepared for us... it is going to be DIY, up to our elbows in guts if the slaughter house guys are believers and are taken upstairs.... 

...I want to put that off for as long as possible.... can you imagine what the inside of a bull smells like?

Bullshit.


...and chicken, feathery things are just hard work!


----------



## poeman33

The May 24 weekend always has shitty weather here in Canada...so at least I know it's not going to be fire and brimstone...Is the end going to be too much cold and rain?


----------



## Georgiatec

Hollowbody said:


> So you are saying all middle eastern prophets are just like middle eastern terrorists? I guess all people from your home town are also exactly the same.



Yeah...people making shit up. So the commandment about bearing false witness?. If you claim to have "seen" the glory of the lord and you actually haven't (I'm pretty sure you would know) does this mean you've shot yourself in the foot redemption wise? 

Suicide bombers BLOW themselves to their kingdom come....now that's what I call faith.


----------



## StootMonster

Don't forget this song for the great gig in the sky:


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DU_ggFovJNo]YouTube - ‪Metallica - Blackened‬&rlm;[/ame]


----------



## IbanezMark

poeman33 said:


> The May 24 weekend always has shitty weather here in Canada...so at least I know it's not going to be fire and brimstone...Is the end going to be too much cold and rain?



That's exactly why I'm heading to the US side this weekend - it's bound to be better weather, right?!


----------



## colchar

May 21st is my birthday and I would be seriously pissed if this were to happen. If these religious nuts want their alleged savior to come back why can't he wait until the 22nd (I mean c'mon, it has been 2000 years so what difference would another 24 hours really make?) when I am likely to need a miracle to deal with my hangover?


----------



## colchar

Michael1987xl said:


> We need to start putting a song list together for Saturday. If anybody's throwing a barbecue to celebrate the end of the world, we're gonna need some music to make a theme of it.
> 
> So far I've got "The End of The World as We Know It" by R.E.M., "The Eve of Destruction" by the Rolling Stones, "Armageddon It" by Def Leppard. Feel free to pipe in.
> 
> Oh, yeah, and "Who's Sorry Now" by Connie Francis, like, just in case....




_Symphony of Destruction_ has to be on the list.


----------



## colchar

thetragichero said:


> i'll be listening to blondie - rapture on repeat. if i'm gonna die, there's no better way to go out



I wonder if _Stairway to Heaven_ would help?


----------



## colchar

StootMonster said:


> Don't forget this song for the great gig in the sky:




This one is even better:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAydj4OJnwQ]YouTube - ‪The Great Gig In The Sky - Pink Floyd (Studio Version)‬&rlm;[/ame]


----------



## colchar

Does anyone else see the Christian Prayer Center banner ad at the bottom of this thread? Apparently, if you send in a prayer request thousands will pray for you. I wonder if sending a prayer request for a Gibson R7 and Dickey Betts' talent would work out for me?


----------



## IbanezMark

colchar said:


> I wonder if sending a prayer request for a Gibson R7 and Dickey Betts' talent would work out for me?



I was thinking about something more along the lines of strippers and blow.


----------



## colchar

IbanezMark said:


> I was thinking about something more along the lines of strippers and blow.



Nah, those can be had easily. Funnily enough, if you have the blow the strippers usually aren't far behind.


----------



## IbanezMark




----------



## poeman33

colchar said:


> Does anyone else see the Christian Prayer Center banner ad at the bottom of this thread? Apparently, if you send in a prayer request thousands will pray for you. I wonder if sending a prayer request for a Gibson R7 and Dickey Betts' talent would work out for me?


nah...it doesn't work. My 649 numbers didn't come up last night and I'm still waiting for my Custom Shop Strat


----------



## Georgiatec

+1


----------



## colchar

poeman33 said:


> nah...it doesn't work. My 649 numbers didn't come up last night



That's because there wasn't a draw last night - you might still get lucky on Saturday's draw!!! Begging an invisible omnipotent being to give you stuff works man. Seriously, it really really does. Keep the faith!


----------



## poeman33

colchar said:


> That's because there wasn't a draw last night - you might still get lucky on Saturday's draw!!! Begging an invisible omnipotent being to give you stuff works man. Seriously, it really really does. Keep the faith!



...last night was Wednesday...always 649 draws on Wed and Saturday. The jackpot was 11 million and won. Saturday's is down to 3.5. And I'll gladly take it.

I hope you haven't been buying tickets all these years and only checking Saturday's results.


----------



## JayCM800

Lol


----------



## j2112c

JayCM800 said:


> Lol



That is great!!


----------



## JayCM800

I think most people peole confuse the Rapture with Armaggeddon.


----------



## colchar

poeman33 said:


> ...last night was Wednesday...always 649 draws on Wed and Saturday. The jackpot was 11 million and won. Saturday's is down to 3.5. And I'll gladly take it.
> 
> I hope you haven't been buying tickets all these years and only checking Saturday's results.




Turns out I'm just brain dead and had been thinking all day that this was Friday. Wow, talk about having a brain fart!

The worst part is that I bought a ticket last night!


----------



## colchar

JayCM800 said:


> I think most people peole confuse the Rapture with Armaggeddon.



Too many people confuse them with events that are actually going to happen - ever.


----------



## StootMonster

colchar said:


> Does anyone else see the Christian Prayer Center banner ad at the bottom of this thread? Apparently, if you send in a prayer request thousands will pray for you. I wonder if sending a prayer request for a Gibson R7 and Dickey Betts' talent would work out for me?



If you've seen Dickey play lately, you wouldn't pray for that.


----------



## Roadburn

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF2VMlTDX-A]YouTube - ‪Roadhouse Blues--Ministry‬&rlm;[/ame]


----------



## Papus

If people spent as much time loving their family & friends and looking forward to making the most of each new day as they spend praying for the triumphal return of their plagiarised dying-rising solar man-god so he can destroy the earth and burn all sinners then the world would be a better place


----------



## Landshark

Papus said:


> If people spent as much time loving their family & friends and looking forward to making the most of each new day as they spend praying for the triumphal return of their plagiarised dying-rising solar man-god so he can destroy the earth and burn all sinners then the world would be a better place



While I agree peole should spend more time loving their families and living their lives, that's just rude. No one wants Jesus to come back and burn sinners. We want Him to come back so we can go to heaven.


----------



## colchar

Landshark said:


> While I agree peole should spend more time loving their families and living their lives, that's just rude. No one wants Jesus to come back and burn sinners. We want Him to come back so we can go to heaven.




I think you missed both the primary and secondary points of that post.


----------



## Hollowbody

colchar said:


> I think you missed both the primary and secondary points of that post.







 I kinda figure at least one of the points (primary or secondary) was about them praying for the triumphal return of their plagiarised dying-rising solar man-god so he can destroy the earth and burn all sinners, know why? 

Because it says: "*as they spend praying for the triumphal return of their plagiarised dying-rising solar man-god so he can destroy the earth and burn all sinners*".

...duh


----------



## Michael1987xl

One thing I've come to realize thanks to this thread is that about the only thing worse than an obnoxious Christian who thinks they know when the world is going to end simply because they read The Bible, is an arrogant douchebag who thinks he's a fucking scientist and has a _better_ idea of when the world will end because they watched _Cosmos_ on DVD a couple of times.


----------



## Georgiatec

Original equation Prophet = Profit. Religion is big business. If you are a "God fearing Man/woman", what is there to be afraid of?


----------



## thetragichero

Don't wanna clooose my eeeeeeeyes
don't wanna faaaaaalll asleeeeeep
cause i miiisss you baaaaby
aaand i dooon't waaaanna miiiis a thiiiiiing


----------



## Salsg

Don't you people have anything better to do than insult Christians? Damn, if you don't believe, you don't need to be a dick about it.


----------



## NewReligion

I believe my God can kick your Gods ass!!!!!!!!

Fairwell Idiots lol.

New Religion, for the record I am Christian and respect all faiths or lack of but don't feed me your flavor of BS. Thanks.


----------



## diesect20022000

So....what TIME is we s'posed to be all day-ed 'n sheeit?

Cuz' I'm feelin' a bit sore and all bt, otherwise I think I'm still here.......then again it's only 11:39 here.


----------



## DSL100 Dude

All I know is I am planning on getting a Tee-shirt made up to wear to church on Sunday that will say:

So,
I guess this means we were bad Christians?

Curious to see how well it goes over...


----------



## Landshark

colchar said:


> I think you missed both the primary and secondary points of that post.





Hollowbody said:


> I kinda figure at least one of the points (primary or secondary) was about them praying for the triumphal return of their plagiarised dying-rising solar man-god so he can destroy the earth and burn all sinners, know why?
> 
> Because it says: "*as they spend praying for the triumphal return of their plagiarised dying-rising solar man-god so he can destroy the earth and burn all sinners*".
> 
> ...duh



Either he was being sarcastic (which isn't visible in print) or he thinks Christians are full of it and we want everyone that doesn't believe in God to die.

I got the point.


----------



## colchar

Landshark said:


> Either he was being sarcastic (which isn't visible in print) or he thinks Christians are full of it and we want everyone that doesn't believe in God to die.
> 
> I got the point.



No, you didn't.


----------



## colchar

diesect20022000 said:


> So....what TIME is we s'posed to be all day-ed 'n sheeit?



6pm California time apparently.


----------



## Georgiatec

I don't believe it!! of all the irony!!...I've been raptured!!. Well guys I'm in a big room with a wall full of Marshalls. This old geezer with a long white beard has just given me a 'burst Les Paul. Wait a minute....this isn't just any Les Paul...it's Claptons "Beano" Les Paul. So that's where it's been all these years. The old guy is inviting me to plug it in....I can't wait to hear those "heavenly tones". Here we go, open E chord....sounds a bit off though....in fact it sounds just like ....MY FUCKING ALARM CLOCK.....SHIT!!...Oh well, Time for work.


----------



## poeman33

colchar said:


> 6pm California time apparently.


Will the half hour difference in Newfoundland screw up Canada's rapture day? And was Daylight Savings time calculated in this?


----------



## Roadburn

Ask Slashdot: What To Do When the Rapture Comes? - Slashdot




Timing and some tips on what and what not to do...
Enjoy...for as long as it lasts.

Includes a link for a "Rapture" app for your mobile!!!! Get it, it might save you!!!

*10. Don't panic.*
The only people being caught up will be Christians. If you, and your staff, are pagans, Wiccans, garden-variety atheists (including many who actually attend church), followers of other religions (mainstream or tiny rivulet), devotees of Hawking or [ame="http://www.amazon.com/God-Delusion-Richard-Dawkins/dp/0618680004"]Dawkins[/ame], or refugees from the '60s, you have *nothing* to worry about. So, considering the state of religious or irreligious belief today, the odds are in your favor.
*
9. Having said that, automate everything.*
God moves in mysterious ways. It's possible that someone who doesn't appear to be Christian, and doesn't even think he is one, could be at risk for Rapturing. (It's complicated. The Catechism of the Catholic Church, which is not typically regarded as a hotbed of Rapture-ism, affirms paragraph 847] that "Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience -- those too may achieve eternal salvation.")
To avoid surprises ("Gosh, I had no idea she was a Christian" or "I had no idea I wasn't"), automate! Get your staff writing scripts to handle the data backups, software updates, scheduled maintenance, business reports; set up self-service Web portals for the UnRaptured.
*
8. Be informed. But not too informed.*
iPad apps like "When Christians Disappear - The Rapture" can provide Scripture references and background, so you can nod knowledgeably when you get caught in the crossfire between Dispensationalist Premillennialists (Rapture first, then return of Christ) and Amillennialists (no literal 1,000-year-rule of the returned Christ), not to mention Postmillennialists and Historic Premillennialists. Just keep nodding: At all costs avoid taking a side.
(Don't bother with "The Rapture Detector," which promises to notify you 30 minutes before The Moment, giving you time to be saved. Even though Jesus and the Church assures us, "But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is," [Mark 13:32,33] Camping is precise: 6 p.m. local time, wherever you are.)
*
7. Avoid disruption.*
At 5:45 p.m. Saturday, invite all the Christians on staff to pray in a conference room or auditorium. That way you minimize the network and systems disruption, not to mention the drama, when they all vanish.
*
6. Review all software licenses.*
Make sure they don't expire immediately before or after The Rapture.
Despite being employees of West Coast companies, your Cisco or Microsoft reps might be among the missing (possibly less likely with Apple). Afterward, you might be able to push for a Rapture Discount on new software and hardware.
*
5. Install mobile device management software.*
With an application like MobileIron, you can shut down and lock, and later locate, any cellphones left behind by Raptured staff. Otherwise you could be hit with huge data charges if the phones were on and online when their users were taken. And make sure they're all equipped with bumpers so when they hit the desk or the pavement they won't break.
*
4. Postpone the upgrade to Windows 7.*
You could save money (fewer users) and avoid disruptions (missing tech support staff) by waiting until after The Rapture to move to Microsoft's Windows 7 operating system. 
*
3. Block all internal video transmissions and external streaming for 48 hours.*
Let's face it, if you're in a telepresence conference and people start blinking out, it's bound to be disconcerting. Plus, you just know YouTube is going to be flooded with video clips of people's family, friends, acquaintances, or worse, themselves, poofing into thin air. The UnRaptured won't be able to stop themselves from clicking on the links, and the video traffic will bring your network to its knees.
*
2. Hit upper management for expanded IT funding.*
Explain The Rapture to them as the ultimate cloud initiative. They won't know what you're talking about, but they know the cloud is cool and important. They'll just keep nodding as they sign the checks.
*
1. iPhone 5 release will not be affected.*
The consensus is that Apple CEO Steve Jobs is a Buddhist. Or maybe a vegan. Either one is Rapture-proof.


You can change all the IT related topics to band related stuff yourselves...


----------



## j2112c

Jesus! What has happened... is this just the UK... the place is now devoid of ANY Christians they are all GONE...!

Being such a religious country the UK population has fallen from 56,230,148 down to a low of 56,230,000 that means we have lost our whole contingent of 148 Christians! (we are not a religious country).

WoW there seems to be a lot of Muslims here now.. no idea why they are celebrating...I think the UK has just become a Muslim nation...



Being what I am I have already popped down to my local Cathedral in Cardiff and boarded it up... its mine now... squatters rights and all that! I will make it into Luxury apartments.
I now have 5 gold crosses to melt down if anyone is interested in swapping a two chalices for a 1959 handwire...


I have also taken the houses of the two Christians on my street of numbers 20 and 41... 20 looks nice, I might move. Parking is better there too.





USA must be a goldmine! (being so religious)
Anybody want to go shares on the bible belt... I will take Texas... split Virginia amongst yourselves.


----------



## Georgiatec

Imagine the disappointment facing all those folks that thought they were going somewhere. Not to mention the consequence that they have been left for the October 21st "cleansing". Didn't an Austrian chap called Adolf have that vision some years back? Oh well onward not upward.


----------



## tubes

Well, it's now 1:00 AM Sunday 22 May here in NZ and no earthquakes so far.

None - unless you count the ones that have been happening in Christchurch for the last nine months. 

But we're still 12 hours away from 6:00PM Sunday California time.

Just saying. See you later Sun night - or not.


----------



## NewReligion

Think I'll call work tomorrow and tell them that I can't make it in that I have been raptured lol, see how that goes.


----------



## Buggs.Crosby

Kool aid stocks just plummeted


----------



## RiverRatt

So, did anybody else get laid last night, just in case it was the last time?


----------



## Buggs.Crosby

RiverRatt said:


> So, did anybody else get laid last night, just in case it was the last time?



Sadly no...but that's OK because there is always tonight


----------



## Georgiatec

tubes said:


> Well, it's now 1:00 AM Sunday 22 May here in NZ and no earthquakes so far.
> 
> None - unless you count the ones that have been happening in Christchurch for the last nine months.
> 
> But we're still 12 hours away from 6:00PM Sunday California time.
> 
> Just saying. See you later Sun night - or not.



I don't think you will find any references to "California time" in the Bible...if there are it probably means the California near Ipswich in Suffolk. Unless of course the San Andreas is going to give way and rapture California into the Pacific....then it would be relevant.


----------



## colchar

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EisTRkz4vOQ&feature=fvst]YouTube - ‪Def Leppard - Armageddon It [Music Video]‬&rlm;[/ame]


----------



## j2112c

Georgiatec said:


> I don't think you will find any references to "California time" in the Bible...if there are it probably means the California near Ipswich in Suffolk. Unless of course the San Andreas is going to give way and rapture California into the Pacific....then it would be relevant.




Beep, Beep, Beep...."At the third stroke the time will be....Armageddon!!!!!!"


----------



## diesect20022000

colchar said:


> 6pm California time apparently.


 Makes sense. 5 PM here. lol. I just hope i can get the kid to take her nap so i can do my 8/4 mod on my DSL before it's too late to play it.....


----------



## poeman33

RiverRatt said:


> So, did anybody else get laid last night, just in case it was the last time?



Told my wife...hey, I know it's not Tuesday...but the rapture is coming


----------



## RiverRatt

When fate hands you a good line, ya gotta use it.


----------



## IronMaidenNutter

So basically... its 10:15pm here... and im still alive... what gives? lol


----------



## JayCM800

More:Cosmic Log - 'Left behind' by humorgeddon


----------



## diesect20022000

damn...I'm still here. Guess I'm evil....


----------



## Buggs.Crosby

It Lives


----------



## NewReligion

I'm still here. Guess I have to go to work this week after all.


----------



## Username2

Georgiatec said:


> For millions of years the world has been about to end...earthquakes, meteor impacts, Ice ages, volcanic eruptions etc., etc.,....I love the way these people quote chapter and verse...like they knew the guy, personally. If The Bible was supposedly written by middle eastern prophets....are you prepared to believe them?. That would be like believing Bin Laden, Sadam Hussain & Gaddafi . You can't believe what comes out of there from 2 days ago let alone 2000 years ago. To live your life around a book, what ever your particular faith deems to call it is a fundamental character flaw. Too many people use it as a crutch to prop up their sad lives or a sword with which they administer their "Gods Will". If we must have faith let it be in the human spirit not a holy one, and religion, you can shove it where the sun don't shine.
> 
> If you're offended by this I guarantee it's not half as offended as I feel when I get those watchtower wielding half wits knocking at my door.


 

True Christians are not easily offended like true non believers. When you are saved Gods love works through you. Even God loved Osama but just like you and I he will be judged. 

First lets get these few people out of the way who said the rapture was today. They are a cult and do not represent true Christians although the media would love for you to believe this to further demonize christians as whacked out. Just like those who say they are a Baptist church and scream at funerals of our dead military. These are false prophets meant to confuse you and point you to Satan by you dismissing God.

God said "I come like a thief in the night" nobody knows the time but the rapture will happen, when... nobody knows. What I do know is the end times are very near and most prophecy has come to pass. For any of you non believers there is only a few more things that must happen before the rapture and the second coming of Christ. Keep your eye to Israel and Jerusalem.

*1 Thessalonians 5:2* says, "For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night." 

Revelation 3:3, "Remember therefore what you have received and heard; and keep it, and repent. If therefore you will not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you." 


2 Peter 3:10, "But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up." 



No other book has stood the test of time other then the bible. It is Gods word. Many have tried to disprove it and failed repeatably at it. As you read the bible God will speak to you through the Holy Ghost. You must have faith. 


All I can say is Jesus is real. Many witnessed his death and thousands witnessed him walking among the people days after his death. His words still ring true today. I was a non believer and used to laugh at this until I witnessed death, not one death but many deaths. There is a real battle for your soul when you die. I have seen this first hand many times. I have seen the dying start to be tortured by demons and scream out in fear. I have seen the saved close their eyes in peace with no fear. I am still a sinner but because I have repented and accepted Christ, the price Jesus paid for me allows me salvation. I am saved. 

God cannot look upon sin because he is holy, there has to be a price paid for sin and Jesus paid that price. No greater love has ever been shown. Jesus offers the the greatest gift anyone could ever receive and its free, he paid the price for you, it is the gift of eternal life. This is what true Christians believe. 

God tells us not to be ashamed of him. If we are ashamed of him he will reject you in front of the father on your judgment day. It will be easy for many to mock and attack me after writing this, I expect it. But just like I would get on here and tell everyone about a great new amp I will tell everyone about Jesus Christ. Yes there will come a time when there is one world currency, one world government, and the army's of the world will gather to come against Israel. Jesus Christ himself leads to a army on a white horse which will leave blood to your knees. He will destroy the earth and sin in his time in his way. Gods says My ways are not your ways as my thoughts are not your thoughts. Our human minds are but one grain of sand in the ocean to Gods knowledge 


The rapture will come and all of those saved will be taken away. Would love to see CNN explain it. For those not raptured you can still turn to God but you cannot take the mark of the beast. The is no mercy in hell, the beast has more hate for you then you can imagine. You will killed because of your beliefs but it is your chance to accept Christ.


----------



## diesect20022000

nuke said:


> True Christians are not easily offended like true non believers. When you are saved Gods love works through you. Even God loved Osama but just like you and I he will be judged.
> 
> First lets get these few people out of the way who said the rapture was today. They are a cult and do not represent true Christians. Just like those who say they are a Baptist church and scream at funerals of our dead military. These are false prophets meant to confuse you and point you to Satan by you dismissing God.
> 
> God said "I come like a thief in the night" nobody knows the time but the rapture will happen, when... nobody knows. What I do know is the end times are very near and most prophecy has come to pass. For any of you non believers there is only a few more things that must happen before the rapture and the second coming of Christ. Keep your eye to Israel and Jerusalem.
> 
> *1 Thessalonians 5:2* says, "For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night."
> 
> Revelation 3:3, "Remember therefore what you have received and heard; and keep it, and repent. If therefore you will not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you."
> 
> 
> 2 Peter 3:10, "But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up."
> 
> 
> 
> No other book has stood the test of time other then the bible. It is Gods word. Many have tried to disprove it and failed repeatably at it. As you read the bible God will speak to you through the Holy Ghost. You must have faith.
> 
> 
> All I can say is Jesus is real. Many witnessed his death and thousands witnessed him walking among the people days after his death. His words still ring true today. I was a non believer and used to laugh at this until I witnessed death, not one death but many deaths. There is a real battle for your soul when you die. I have seen this first hand many times. I have seen the dying start to be tortured by demons and scream out in fear. I have seen the saved close their eyes in peace with no fear. I am still a sinner but because of the price Jesus paid I am saved.
> 
> God cannot look upon sin because he is holy, there has to be a price paid for sin and Jesus paid that price. No greater love has ever been shown. Jesus offers the the greatest gift anyone could ever receive and its free, he paid the price for you, it is the gift of eternal life. This is what true Christians believe.
> 
> God tells us not to be ashamed of him. If we are ashamed of him he will reject you in front of the father on your judgment day. It will be easy for many to mock and attack me after writing this. But just like I would get on here and tell everyone about a great new amp I will tell everyone about Jesus Christ.
> 
> 
> The rapture will come and all of those saved will be taken away. Would love to see CNN explain it. For those not raptured you can still turn to good but you cannot take the mark of the beast. You will killed in some way because of your beliefs but ti is your last chance to accept Christ.


lumping all non believers in is a blanket statement and we all know that those are BS.
I'm an atheist and i haven't been offended by anything here yet,lol not even that. It's just an observation.

I do think a lot of the comments are funny and wether you're a believer or not i would think everyone would because they're the same smartass remarks we ALL make about EVERYTHING in this group.

My point is, while i do find some of the statements a little...over the top aggressive (on both sides) i still don't see why w can't all have our own beliefs. I respect your choice in faith.

most of the people here i talk to regularly are Christian and i have nothing against it and so far they haven't shoved my face in the proverbial "poo" either.

I think most of our comments here are meant to be funny not obnoxious. I know mine are.

Why can't we all just joke around and enjoy it you know?


And i am a TRUE NON BELIEVER lol. again, nothing said in here has offended me yet but, i do think your statement's false. Disregarding the scripture quotes of course.


----------



## Salsg

Buggs.Crosby said:


> Kool aid stocks just plummeted



No they didn't. Obama is still president


----------



## Buggs.Crosby

nuke said:


> *1 Therealasonians 5:2* says, "For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Tone will come just like a Sheep in the night."
> 
> 
> 
> Sheepakis3:3, "Remember therefore what you have received and heard; and keep it, and repent. If therefore you will not wake up, I will come like a Sheep, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you."
> 
> 
> 2 Peter 3:10, "But the day of the Lord will come like a Sheep, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up."





 Buggsakus 1.1, Dont Fuck with the DSHell and you shall have no fear!


----------



## TwinACStacks

Buggs.Crosby said:


> Kool aid stocks just plummeted



That is the FUNNIEST Jim Jones joke I think I have EVER heard.

at least I got it Buggs...

 TWIN


----------



## JayCM800

nuke said:


> True Christians are not easily offended like true non believers. When you are saved Gods love works through you. Even God loved Osama but just like you and I he will be judged.
> 
> First lets get these few people out of the way who said the rapture was today. They are a cult and do not represent true Christians although the media would love for you to believe this to further demonize christians as whacked out. Just like those who say they are a Baptist church and scream at funerals of our dead military. These are false prophets meant to confuse you and point you to Satan by you dismissing God.
> 
> God said "I come like a thief in the night" nobody knows the time but the rapture will happen, when... nobody knows. What I do know is the end times are very near and most prophecy has come to pass. For any of you non believers there is only a few more things that must happen before the rapture and the second coming of Christ. Keep your eye to Israel and Jerusalem.
> 
> *1 Thessalonians 5:2* says, "For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night."
> 
> Revelation 3:3, "Remember therefore what you have received and heard; and keep it, and repent. If therefore you will not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you."
> 
> 
> 2 Peter 3:10, "But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up."
> 
> 
> 
> No other book has stood the test of time other then the bible. It is Gods word. Many have tried to disprove it and failed repeatably at it. As you read the bible God will speak to you through the Holy Ghost. You must have faith.
> 
> 
> All I can say is Jesus is real. Many witnessed his death and thousands witnessed him walking among the people days after his death. His words still ring true today. I was a non believer and used to laugh at this until I witnessed death, not one death but many deaths. There is a real battle for your soul when you die. I have seen this first hand many times. I have seen the dying start to be tortured by demons and scream out in fear. I have seen the saved close their eyes in peace with no fear. I am still a sinner but because I have repented and accepted Christ, the price Jesus paid for me allows me salvation. I am saved.
> 
> God cannot look upon sin because he is holy, there has to be a price paid for sin and Jesus paid that price. No greater love has ever been shown. Jesus offers the the greatest gift anyone could ever receive and its free, he paid the price for you, it is the gift of eternal life. This is what true Christians believe.
> 
> God tells us not to be ashamed of him. If we are ashamed of him he will reject you in front of the father on your judgment day. It will be easy for many to mock and attack me after writing this, I expect it. But just like I would get on here and tell everyone about a great new amp I will tell everyone about Jesus Christ. Yes there will come a time when there is one world currency, one world government, and the army's of the world will gather to come against Israel. Jesus Christ himself leads to a army on a white horse which will leave blood to your knees. He will destroy the earth and sin in his time in his way. Gods says My ways are not your ways as my thoughts are not your thoughts. Our human minds are but one grain of sand in the ocean to Gods knowledge
> 
> 
> The rapture will come and all of those saved will be taken away. Would love to see CNN explain it. For those not raptured you can still turn to God but you cannot take the mark of the beast. The is no mercy in hell, the beast has more hate for you then you can imagine. You will killed because of your beliefs but it is your chance to accept Christ.


SPAM!! LOL


----------



## Jack92CH

Heaven sucks!


----------



## 80s dude

Jack92CH said:


> Heaven sucks!



It must, if it's packed with the "true believers" I'm always reading about these days.


----------



## Username2

Jack92CH said:


> Heaven sucks!


 
The human mind is not capable of knowing what heaven is. However I can describe in great detail what hell is. 

If anyone want to ask an serious question PM me and I will be happy to answer it.


----------



## Buggs.Crosby

nuke said:


> The human mind is not capable of knowing what heaven is. However I can describe in great detail what hell is.
> 
> If anyone want to ask an serious question PM me and I will be happy to answer it.



Funny you know what hell looks like but not heaven?.....you mean you can describe what you read in a book?.......that has been translated how many times?

P.M me and i'll be happy to feed you some more B.S


----------



## Jack92CH

nuke said:


> The human mind is not capable of knowing what heaven is. However I can describe in great detail what hell is.
> 
> If anyone want to ask an serious question PM me and I will be happy to answer it.



I've been told Hell is life without God. I can dig that.


----------



## Username2

Jack92CH said:


> I've been told Hell is life without God. I can dig that.


 
You are correct. There is no mercy in hell because God is mercy and God is not in hell.



> Funny you know what hell looks like but not heaven?.....you mean you can describe what you read in a book?.......that has been translated how many times?
> 
> P.M me and i'll be happy to feed you some more B.S


 
Translation is not difficult. If you are truly willing to search for answers and the truth God will speak to you as you read the Bible. This does not happen in a literal sense but rather through the holy spirit which is one in the same with God. God knows your every thought, and your every desire.


----------



## Jack92CH

nuke said:


> You are correct. There is no mercy in hell because God is mercy and God is not in hell.



So who's to say we're not already there?


----------



## Username2

Jack92CH said:


> So who's to say we're not already there?


 
There is evil on earth because Satan also is here. God will judge all before casting anyone to hell for eternity. It is a very simple truth.

*John 14:6 *


*6* Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.


----------



## Jack92CH

nuke said:


> It is a very simple truth.



What tells you this?


----------



## Buggs.Crosby

nuke said:


> You are correct. There is no mercy in hell because God is mercy and God is not in hell.
> 
> 
> 
> Translation is not difficult. If you are truly willing to search for answers and the truth God will speak to you as you read the Bible. This does not happen in a literal sense but rather through the holy spirit which is one in the same with God. God knows your every thought, and your every desire.



Pure Bullshit.....have any real proof?......me thinks i will hear another fairytale!


----------



## thetragichero

lord of the rings is a good novel too but i'm not gonna go hangin around no fuckin dwarfs!


----------



## Username2

Jack92CH said:


> What tells you this?


 
Before Christ was crucified on the cross you and I had no way of entering the kingdom of God. Why? Because we are sinners and the wages of sin is death.

Jesus was perfect and without sin, God so loved the us that he gave up his only son who was perfect and without sin to be brutally tortured and crucified on the cross so that you and I would have a path to God. Jesus paid the death bill for us. 

Can you imagine the love. If your neighbor was a sex offender and brutally killed your wife, then cursed you, spat on you until his day in court. When that day in court came you got up and told the judge to not take the sex offenders life but rather to take your only son and nail him to a cross and have him be crucified until dead. This is what God did for you and how much God loves you. All people have to do is ask for forgiveness and except the free gift Jesus wants to give you. He died for you, the penelty has been paid. With out accepting Jesus Christ you will surly die for your sins. Again God cannot look upon sin.


----------



## thetragichero

on second thought, lord of the rings is a lot more interesting


----------



## diesect20022000

thetragichero said:


> on second thought, lord of the rings is a lot more interesting


 And that's what spawned black metal too. at least "The Hobbit" book series did anyway....I have the whole article. Gotta love Schizo's.


----------



## Jack92CH

nuke said:


> Before Christ was crucified on the cross you and I had no way of entering the kingdom of God. Why? Because we are sinners and the wages of sin is death.
> 
> Jesus was perfect and without sin, God so loved the us that he gave up his only son who was perfect and without sin to be brutally tortured and crucified on the cross so that you and I would have a path to God. Jesus paid the death bill for us.
> 
> Can you imagine the love. If your neighbor was a sex offender and brutally killed your wife, then cursed you, spat on you until his day in court. When that day in court came you got up and told the judge to not take the sex offenders life but rather to take your only son and nail him to a cross and have him be crucified until dead. This is what God did for you and how much God loves you. All people have to do is ask for forgiveness and except the free gift Jesus wants to give you. He died for you, the penelty has been paid. With out accepting Jesus Christ you will surly die for your sins. Again God cannot look upon sin.



Gee, subjecting someone to have the shit beaten out of them and nailed to two boards REALLY demonstrates their compassion doesn't it? Anyone who knows Christ is at the right hand of God also knows Satan is at his left. God, by the Bible's own standards, is inherently evil and is inherently imperfect.


----------



## Username2

Jack92CH said:


> Gee, subjecting someone to have the shit beaten out of them and nailed to two boards REALLY demonstrates their compassion doesn't it? Anyone who knows Christ is at the right hand of God also knows Satan is at his left. God, by the Bible's own standards, is inherently evil and is inherently imperfect.


 
Well it was either him or you. The "act" of compassion is that God was willing to sacrifice his own son for you. Because of this you now have a choice, you can accept what Jesus did for you or you can pay for your sins yourself. 

I can also assure you that on judgment day many people will stand weeping and begging for forgiveness before the throne of God. Satan will be no where to be found. I truly hope nobody hears Jesus say "Go away from me for I never knew you"

Matthew 25:41 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.


----------



## RiverRatt

I don't mean anything disrespectful at all, but I haven't asked to be converted, nor do I want to be. If the rapture happens, I'll gladly go and hang out on whatever level I end up on, but I won't be selling any of my stuff anytime soon. I just can't see any evidence of a supreme being in this shithole we live in. Maybe I'm jaded because I'm in the media, but if you give God credit for the butterflies and rainbows, you have to give him credit for the babies born with AIDS and the people crippled and maimed by disease and war. If God were a McDonalds manager, he would have been fired a long time ago.


----------



## Jack92CH

What kind of perfect and loving God creates his subjects stricken with sin and then sentences them to an infinite punishment for finite crimes which they were bound to commit in the first place? God is a sick, weird dude. Not that I think he's real, but he makes for one hell of a fiction character.


----------



## Username2

RiverRatt said:


> I don't mean anything disrespectful at all, but I haven't asked to be converted, nor do I want to be. If the rapture happens, I'll gladly go and hang out on whatever level I end up on, but I won't be selling any of my stuff anytime soon. I just can't see any evidence of a supreme being in this shithole we live in. Maybe I'm jaded because I'm in the media, but if you give God credit for the butterflies and rainbows, you have to give him credit for the babies born with AIDS and the people crippled and maimed by disease and war. If God were a McDonalds manager, he would have been fired a long time ago.


 
The rapture will happen when God is ready for it to happen. I am not here to try and convert anyone, people have to accept Christ on their own free will. They can accept him or reject him. It is Muslims who might chop your head off if you don't convert.

You say your in the media. Well this little cult group of a handful of people who the media has been portraying as the average Christian Joe (which it is not) has succeeded to make Christians look like lunatics. It is not something widespread in the Christian community but yet the media created the naritive and with joy amplified it loud clear with one goal, to discredit Christians who had nothing to do with it. This cult group are NOT Christians and I don't care what they call themselves. 

Of course in no way am I saying your hand was in that simply because you are in the media, I don't know you. But the media today is responsible for so much deceit and deception and is so agenda driven that it has contributed greatly to the decline of our nation and will continue to do so. 

I can tell you that God is not the author of those things you posted above. Every one of those things you mention were spawn out of sin, that is the other guy, Satan.


----------



## Username2

Jack92CH said:


> What kind of perfect and loving God creates his subjects stricken with sin and then sentences them to an infinite punishment for finite crimes which they were bound to commit in the first place? God is a sick, weird dude. Not that I think he's real, but he makes for one hell of a fiction character.


 
God didn't create man to sin, Satan was here on this earth and tempted Adam and Eve to sin, which they did. God will continue to knock on your door, you can let him in or lock him out. When judgment day comes for all of us and we knock on Heavens door, God will either lock you out or let you in. Satan does not lock his door.

This is my last post on this topic. I will be happy to take any question via PM. My involvement tonight in the thread was God driven and not meant to flame. I hope that those of you who do not know God search for the truth and find it. Peace/


----------



## Jack92CH

nuke said:


> This is my last post on this topic.



Thank GOD


----------



## diesect20022000

I did search for the truth and it isn't religion. Thank SCIENCE that's finaly over....


----------



## thetragichero

my involvement in all the beer i drank today was god-driven too


----------



## Papus

The half-drunken, half-sleep deprived blind ravings of iron age goat herders should have NO bearing on our world view and our science today.


----------



## poeman33

Every serious member on this forum knows what true Hell would be. Where you finally finally get that original Plexi in perfect condition...and the @#$%^ power goes out.


----------



## willscott182

nuke said:


> God didn't create man to sin, Satan was here on this earth and tempted Adam and Eve to sin, which they did. God will continue to knock on your door, you can let him in or lock him out. When judgment day comes for all of us and we knock on Heavens door, God will either lock you out or let you in. Satan does not lock his door.
> 
> This is my last post on this topic. I will be happy to take any question via PM. My involvement tonight in the thread was God driven and not meant to flame. I hope that those of you who do not know God search for the truth and find it. Peace/



If it took him 7 days just to create the earth, then how'd he manage to knock up all the other planets that are so much bigger?


----------



## Hollowbody

diesect20022000 said:


> I did search for the truth and it isn't religion. Thank SCIENCE that's finaly over....




That is funny.


----------



## Buggs.Crosby

nuke said:


> God knows your every thought, and your every desire.



I got $10 says my wife knows 1000 times more about me than any god does.....and she don't know half of it


----------



## Jack92CH

Science flies us to the moon, religion flies us into buildings.


----------



## Hollowbody

Jack92CH said:


> Science flies us to the moon, religion flies us into buildings.



Technology takes us to the moon. There is a difference, technology is based on solid science but not all science is accurate nor have all theories been proven.

"religion" is as broad a term as is "science".


----------



## RiverRatt

nuke said:


> Of course in no way am I saying your hand was in that simply because you are in the media, I don't know you. But the media today is responsible for so much deceit and deception and is so agenda driven that it has contributed greatly to the decline of our nation and will continue to do so.
> 
> I can tell you that God is not the author of those things you posted above. Every one of those things you mention were spawn out of sin, that is the other guy, Satan.



So, either God isn't all-powerful or he lets this Satan dude run roughshod over us just for kicks? Either way, that's inconsistent with a loving, caring God. I have three children and I would never turn my back on them if they were suffering in any way. I would try to help them. I would never tell them that they were born evil and deserved anything that happened to them because of that.


----------



## Hollowbody

RiverRatt said:


> So, either God isn't all-powerful or he lets this Satan dude run roughshod over us just for kicks? Either way, that's inconsistent with a loving, caring God. I have three children and I would never turn my back on them if they were suffering in any way. I would try to help them. I would never tell them that they were born evil and deserved anything that happened to them because of that.





Excellent question. 

**EDIT** ...er, question in a statement.


----------



## Hollowbody

I hate to be a dick, but seriously, could the response be less than 5 f-ing paragraphs? I'm about to load a bowl and really don't want to read so much.


----------



## Buggs.Crosby

Hollowbody said:


> I hate to be a dick, but seriously, could the response be less than 5 f-ing paragraphs? I'm about to load a bowl and really don't want to read so much.



Pass it over here....i am dry for at least another 4 hours


----------



## Adwex

Buggs.Crosby said:


> Pass it over here....i am dry for at least another 4 hours



Just say "no" to reliigion...uhhh...I mean...drugs.


----------



## diesect20022000

Hollowbody said:


> Technology takes us to the moon. There is a difference, technology is based on solid science but not all science is accurate nor have all theories been proven.
> 
> "religion" is as broad a term as is "science".


 aeronautics,rocket science and physics work better?


----------



## Hollowbody

Adwex said:


> Just say "no" to reliigion...uhhh...I mean...drugs.




You came back!!


----------



## Hollowbody

diesect20022000 said:


> aeronautics,rocket science and physics work better?




Yes. technology proves what is being learned studied or discovered by science.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technology

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science

There is a difference.


----------



## Adwex

Hollowbody said:


> You came back!!



Eh,...mostly lurking.


----------



## Hollowbody

I guess you have to in case one of us gets out of line.

I'll watch my P's and Q's.

...can't vouch for the rest of the alphabet.


----------



## Georgiatec

nuke said:


> True Christians are not easily offended like true non believers. When you are saved Gods love works through you. Even God loved Osama but just like you and I he will be judged.
> 
> First lets get these few people out of the way who said the rapture was today. They are a cult and do not represent true Christians although the media would love for you to believe this to further demonize christians as whacked out. Just like those who say they are a Baptist church and scream at funerals of our dead military. These are false prophets meant to confuse you and point you to Satan by you dismissing God.
> 
> God said "I come like a thief in the night" nobody knows the time but the rapture will happen, when... nobody knows. What I do know is the end times are very near and most prophecy has come to pass. For any of you non believers there is only a few more things that must happen before the rapture and the second coming of Christ. Keep your eye to Israel and Jerusalem.
> 
> *1 Thessalonians 5:2* says, "For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night."
> 
> Revelation 3:3, "Remember therefore what you have received and heard; and keep it, and repent. If therefore you will not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you."
> 
> 
> 2 Peter 3:10, "But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up."
> 
> 
> 
> No other book has stood the test of time other then the bible. It is Gods word. Many have tried to disprove it and failed repeatably at it. As you read the bible God will speak to you through the Holy Ghost. You must have faith.
> 
> 
> All I can say is Jesus is real. Many witnessed his death and thousands witnessed him walking among the people days after his death. His words still ring true today. I was a non believer and used to laugh at this until I witnessed death, not one death but many deaths. There is a real battle for your soul when you die. I have seen this first hand many times. I have seen the dying start to be tortured by demons and scream out in fear. I have seen the saved close their eyes in peace with no fear. I am still a sinner but because I have repented and accepted Christ, the price Jesus paid for me allows me salvation. I am saved.
> 
> God cannot look upon sin because he is holy, there has to be a price paid for sin and Jesus paid that price. No greater love has ever been shown. Jesus offers the the greatest gift anyone could ever receive and its free, he paid the price for you, it is the gift of eternal life. This is what true Christians believe.
> 
> God tells us not to be ashamed of him. If we are ashamed of him he will reject you in front of the father on your judgment day. It will be easy for many to mock and attack me after writing this, I expect it. But just like I would get on here and tell everyone about a great new amp I will tell everyone about Jesus Christ. Yes there will come a time when there is one world currency, one world government, and the army's of the world will gather to come against Israel. Jesus Christ himself leads to a army on a white horse which will leave blood to your knees. He will destroy the earth and sin in his time in his way. Gods says My ways are not your ways as my thoughts are not your thoughts. Our human minds are but one grain of sand in the ocean to Gods knowledge
> 
> 
> The rapture will come and all of those saved will be taken away. Would love to see CNN explain it. For those not raptured you can still turn to God but you cannot take the mark of the beast. The is no mercy in hell, the beast has more hate for you then you can imagine. You will killed because of your beliefs but it is your chance to accept Christ.



I wondered when someone would bite....You see the thing with this that sits uncomfortably with me is the threat factor....If you don't etc. etc. etc. then you will burn in hell. There should be no threats, no pre-conditions. Believe it or not I am a Christian....I have been baptised which as far as I'm concerned qualifies. If folks want to spend what little time they have practising religion, then that is their business. Just don't try and change people that are quite happy to ignore everything that was rammed down our throats when we were kids. The Bible is a book...like the Koran, or any other life's works written by people with lots of time on their hands and very little, but their imaginations and the time's recreational substances to aid them. 
My personal favourite religious work...."Life of Brian"


----------



## Papus

Religion: tool of the powermongers, refuge of the weak of will and meek of intellect...


----------



## Username2

Georgiatec said:


> I wondered when someone would bite....You see the thing with this that sits uncomfortably with me is the threat factor....If you don't etc. etc. etc. then you will burn in hell. There should be no threats, no pre-conditions. Believe it or not I am a Christian....I have been baptised which as far as I'm concerned qualifies. If folks want to spend what little time they have practising religion, then that is their business. Just don't try and change people that are quite happy to ignore everything that was rammed down our throats when we were kids. The Bible is a book...like the Koran, or any other life's works written by people with lots of time on their hands and very little, but their imaginations and the time's recreational substances to aid them.
> My personal favourite religious work...."Life of Brian"


 
For those of you bonging out this is a good read for you too. 

There is no threat, only the truth. It is the biggest contrast between black and white, you might not like the alternative but hell is real and those who have not accepted Christ will be cast to it. There are no non believers in hell today, everyone there is pleading for God to have mercy but again God is not in hell. God does not want you to come to him because you are threatened, he wants you to come to him just as you are on your own free will and repent. 

Jesus made it very clear that the only way any of us can inherent the Kingdom of God is through him, no other way. He paid the debt for your sin no one else.

Now lets talk about baptism. Being Baptized as a child does not make you saved as a child or later as an adult, not going to happen. Infant baptism is not spoke of in the Bible, so "infant baptism" does nothing. Infants and children that die before they know right from wrong are returned to God, they are without sin and the inherit the kingdom of God.

Baptism cannot pay for any of your sins or wash away any sins. Only accepting Jesus Christ can pays the debt for your sins, no other way. Water baptism will not get you into heaven, water baptism is not required to get into heaven, and water baptism cannot be added to Jesus's PERFECT salvation.

The thief on the cross that was crucified with Jesus was never water baptized, but he is in heaven right now, because he believed in JESUS for His free gift of eternal life in heaven, which is the ONLY way to get into heaven!

Water baptism is only for those already born again, as a testimony of Jesus that Jesus already saved you, as a celebration as well!

Believe me I am not a religious man, Satan has infultrated religion has clouded so much of what people know and believe today. There is a difference between being religous and being saved. 

I view my walk with God and my relationship with Jesus as a victory over death. I do not attend church and do not try to ram it down peoples throats, I simply tell people the facts. If you are a Christian God uses you to talk to those not saved. He has put me in bars, on battlefields, hospitals, in crack houses, and even on forums like this. I am suprised that more Christians besides myself have not come forward here and spoke out on the topic. Many claim to be Christians but in fact are not, you will know Christians by their love, sacrifice, and the truth and honor. True Christians are not ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ. 

Funny how people will gather to listen to the lies of Satan and of this earth but when the truth of God is spoke Satan comes out and uses people to attack. Fact is Satan never will have power over God and he fears and trembles at his name. Satan will lie to you and make everything seem beautiful to you but he hates you to a level we humans cannot understand.

Saying the Bible is simply a book and saying you are a Christian makes no sense. The Bible is the word of God written through men who were compelled by God to do so. I recognize popular modern day disclaimers on it but every one of them is meant to discourage you from God. Satan is the great deceiver and he has the power to make many believe his lies. There are no lies in the bible, to say so would be to accuse God of being a liar.


----------



## willscott182

nuke said:


> For those of you bonging out this is a good read for you too.
> 
> There is no threat, only the truth. It is the biggest contrast between black and white, you might not like the alternative but hell is real and those who have not accepted Christ will be cast to it. There are no non believers in hell today, everyone there is pleading for God to have mercy but again God is not in hell. God does not want you to come to him because you are threatened, he wants you to come to him just as you are on your own free will and repent.
> 
> Jesus made it very clear that the only way any of us can inherent the Kingdom of God is through him, no other way. He paid the debt for your sin no one else.
> 
> Now lets talk about baptism. Being Baptized as a child does not make you saved as a child or later as an adult, not going to happen. Infant baptism is not spoke of in the Bible, so "infant baptism" does nothing. Infants and children that die before they know right from wrong are returned to God, they are without sin and the inherit the kingdom of God.
> 
> Baptism cannot pay for any of your sins or wash away any sins. Only accepting Jesus Christ can pays the debt for your sins, no other way. Water baptism will not get you into heaven, water baptism is not required to get into heaven, and water baptism cannot be added to Jesus's PERFECT salvation.
> 
> The thief on the cross that was crucified with Jesus was never water baptized, but he is in heaven right now, because he believed in JESUS for His free gift of eternal life in heaven, which is the ONLY way to get into heaven!
> 
> Water baptism is only for those already born again, as a testimony of Jesus that Jesus already saved you, as a celebration as well!
> 
> Believe me I am not a religious man, Satan has infultrated religion has clouded so much of what people know and believe today. There is a difference between being religous and being saved.
> 
> I view my walk with God and my relationship with Jesus as a victory over death. I do not attend church and do not try to ram it down peoples throats, I simply tell people the facts. If you are a Christian God uses you to talk to those not saved. He has put me in bars, on battlefields, hospitals, in crack houses, and even on forums like this. I am suprised that more Christians besides myself have not come forward here and spoke out on the topic. Many claim to be Christians but in fact are not, you will know Christians by their love, sacrifice, and the truth and honor. True Christians are not ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
> 
> Funny how people will gather to listen to the lies of Satan and of this earth but when the truth of God is spoke Satan comes out and uses people to attack. Fact is Satan never will have power over God and he fears and trembles at his name. Satan will lie to you and make everything seem beautiful to you but he hates you to a level we humans cannot understand.
> 
> Saying the Bible is simply a book and saying you are a Christian makes no sense. The Bible is the word of God written through men who were compelled by God to do so. I recognize popular modern day disclaimers on it but every one of them is meant to discourage you from God. Satan is the great deceiver and he has the power to make many believe his lies. There are no lies in the bible, to say so would be to accuse God of being a liar.



Prove it.


----------



## Buggs.Crosby

nuke said:


> For those of you bonging out this is a good read for you too.
> 
> There is no threat, only the truth. It is the biggest contrast between black and white, you might not like the alternative but hell is real and those who have not accepted Christ will be cast to it. There are no non believers in hell today, everyone there is pleading for God to have mercy but again God is not in hell. God does not want you to come to him because you are threatened, he wants you to come to him just as you are on your own free will and repent.
> 
> Jesus made it very clear that the only way any of us can inherent the Kingdom of God is through him, no other way. He paid the debt for your sin no one else.
> 
> Now lets talk about baptism. Being Baptized as a child does not make you saved as a child or later as an adult, not going to happen. Infant baptism is not spoke of in the Bible, so "infant baptism" does nothing. Infants and children that die before they know right from wrong are returned to God, they are without sin and the inherit the kingdom of God.
> 
> Baptism cannot pay for any of your sins or wash away any sins. Only accepting Jesus Christ can pays the debt for your sins, no other way. Water baptism will not get you into heaven, water baptism is not required to get into heaven, and water baptism cannot be added to Jesus's PERFECT salvation.
> 
> The thief on the cross that was crucified with Jesus was never water baptized, but he is in heaven right now, because he believed in JESUS for His free gift of eternal life in heaven, which is the ONLY way to get into heaven!
> 
> Water baptism is only for those already born again, as a testimony of Jesus that Jesus already saved you, as a celebration as well!
> 
> Believe me I am not a religious man, Satan has infultrated religion has clouded so much of what people know and believe today. There is a difference between being religous and being saved.
> 
> I view my walk with God and my relationship with Jesus as a victory over death. I do not attend church and do not try to ram it down peoples throats, I simply tell people the facts. If you are a Christian God uses you to talk to those not saved. He has put me in bars, on battlefields, hospitals, in crack houses, and even on forums like this. I am suprised that more Christians besides myself have not come forward here and spoke out on the topic. Many claim to be Christians but in fact are not, you will know Christians by their love, sacrifice, and the truth and honor. True Christians are not ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
> 
> Funny how people will gather to listen to the lies of Satan and of this earth but when the truth of God is spoke Satan comes out and uses people to attack. Fact is Satan never will have power over God and he fears and trembles at his name. Satan will lie to you and make everything seem beautiful to you but he hates you to a level we humans cannot understand.
> 
> Saying the Bible is simply a book and saying you are a Christian makes no sense. The Bible is the word of God written through men who were compelled by God to do so. I recognize popular modern day disclaimers on it but every one of them is meant to discourage you from God. Satan is the great deceiver and he has the power to make many believe his lies. There are no lies in the bible, to say so would be to accuse God of being a liar.



Man you can babble some BullShit!.....nothing personal as i said before to those that believe more power too you.........but stop making yourself look like a fool by typing crap.....or at least mail it to me on paper so i could put it to real use......anything has to be softer than the 50 grit or Charmin i am currently using


----------



## diesect20022000

nuke said:


> For those of you bonging out this is a good read for you too.
> 
> There is no threat, only the truth. It is the biggest contrast between black and white, you might not like the alternative but hell is real and those who have not accepted Christ will be cast to it. There are no non believers in hell today, everyone there is pleading for God to have mercy but again God is not in hell. God does not want you to come to him because you are threatened, he wants you to come to him just as you are on your own free will and repent.
> 
> Jesus made it very clear that the only way any of us can inherent the Kingdom of God is through him, no other way. He paid the debt for your sin no one else.
> 
> Now lets talk about baptism. Being Baptized as a child does not make you saved as a child or later as an adult, not going to happen. Infant baptism is not spoke of in the Bible, so "infant baptism" does nothing. Infants and children that die before they know right from wrong are returned to God, they are without sin and the inherit the kingdom of God.
> 
> Baptism cannot pay for any of your sins or wash away any sins. Only accepting Jesus Christ can pays the debt for your sins, no other way. Water baptism will not get you into heaven, water baptism is not required to get into heaven, and water baptism cannot be added to Jesus's PERFECT salvation.
> 
> The thief on the cross that was crucified with Jesus was never water baptized, but he is in heaven right now, because he believed in JESUS for His free gift of eternal life in heaven, which is the ONLY way to get into heaven!
> 
> Water baptism is only for those already born again, as a testimony of Jesus that Jesus already saved you, as a celebration as well!
> 
> Believe me I am not a religious man, Satan has infultrated religion has clouded so much of what people know and believe today. There is a difference between being religous and being saved.
> 
> I view my walk with God and my relationship with Jesus as a victory over death. I do not attend church and do not try to ram it down peoples throats, I simply tell people the facts. If you are a Christian God uses you to talk to those not saved. He has put me in bars, on battlefields, hospitals, in crack houses, and even on forums like this. I am suprised that more Christians besides myself have not come forward here and spoke out on the topic. Many claim to be Christians but in fact are not, you will know Christians by their love, sacrifice, and the truth and honor. True Christians are not ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
> 
> Funny how people will gather to listen to the lies of Satan and of this earth but when the truth of God is spoke Satan comes out and uses people to attack. Fact is Satan never will have power over God and he fears and trembles at his name. Satan will lie to you and make everything seem beautiful to you but he hates you to a level we humans cannot understand.
> 
> Saying the Bible is simply a book and saying you are a Christian makes no sense. The Bible is the word of God written through men who were compelled by God to do so. I recognize popular modern day disclaimers on it but every one of them is meant to discourage you from God. Satan is the great deceiver and he has the power to make many believe his lies. There are no lies in the bible, to say so would be to accuse God of being a liar.


They haven't because you're not representing your God you're representing your ego in this.

as far as the word of god, which bible are you refering to becuase i've read a couple cover to cover and they don't all say the same things.

Namely new world testament and King James 1 and 2.

All you're accomplishing here is pushing people away from something you claim to love. So stop with the dogma already.

Say whatever you feel compelled to in response to my post. 

It's not out of anger etc and i'm done after this so you are welcome to have the last word.


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## Username2

Representing my ego couldn't be further form the truth. Everyday people reject the message, much of what I say makes people angry and frustrated, nothing new. I can tell you that everything I have said is backed up in the Bible. Once people are dug in it will be up to the holy spirit to reach those if they are to move off of square. 

I cannot sugar coat or change the gospel of Jesus Christ because people don't agree with it or because it makes them uncomfortable. Many people have accepted it and many more have rejected it. One thing for sure is when you and I die it will be settled. 

Even when the most hardened heart is conscious when they approach death they cry out for God, in all the death I have witnessed I have never heard anyone curse God or cry out for Satan. I digress.


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## Jack92CH

nuke said:


> Even when the most hardened heart is conscious when they approach death they cry out for God, in all the death I have witnessed I have never heard anyone curse God or cry out for Satan.



So a Hindu or a Taoist would cry out for God? I welcome death like a good night's sleep. Being dead is far more comfortable than being alive, we've all done it before, so what the hell is the mystery? If you were born in Cambodia, do you think you would be a Christian? Do you think you would accept Jesus as your savior? It's all bullshit, and it ALL rots your brain. I have nothing personal against religious people, but I do have a personal problem with religion itself. It discourages individual and critical thought, it dictates your values, it makes you feel guilty for even existing, as if you were somehow defective. Religion doesn't do a damn thing but cloud your mind. If it makes you happy, cool, but you must also be happy with being completely sold on a fable founded on nothing.


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## RiverRatt

nuke said:


> I can tell you that everything I have said is backed up in the Bible.



Which translation? Which version?


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## JayCM800

:cool2:Well guys, for my part, i respect everybodys beliefs... I don't wanna convince anybody about anything... My kind of Dark-Psychological-Humor is most of the time misinterpreted for an attack on personal integrity when in reality it should be viewed as a peek inside the "self", from the outside! ...just a playful mocking of the human condition we all share and toil through... i can dish it and i can take it... seem some people are too full of themselves to laugh at their own expense.

The intention of the OP was to make light-hearted fun of the "end of the world propaganda", this time happend to be christians, a couple years ago it was something other and a spaceship... 

When a scientist find irrefutable proof that says: "There's a comet headed our way!" I'd be more inclined to believe in the world ending! LOL

But anybody's also welcome to consider it the will of God! LOL  That's if we survive earthquakes, flooding, war, pollution,famine and pandemics...  (which could also be the will of God! what do i know!?)

So no more discussion of religion and/or politics from ME on this forum, i promise... 

Don't worry, you still have to contend with my unpopular opinions regarding guitar gear, unless you use the "ignore" function on me , which is of course your prerrogative...:cool2:


ps.- If i were you guys, i wouldn't wanna mess with Nuke, he's armed to the teeth!... with the bible!  http://www.marshallforum.com/marshall-amps/23819-man-cave-time-post356570.html#post356570


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## Buggs.Crosby

nuke said:


> I can tell you that everything I have said is backed up in the Bible.



Aspen Pittman wrote a bible as well......he is also full of BS......therefore i don't read his book nor buy his/their products either


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## kramer.geetar




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## Papus

This much is certain: humanity will not survive the next two hundred years if we do not cast off the asinine shackles of religion, liberating ourselves from the venomous hive mind of Christ, abandoning the pious self-aggrandizing persecution complex of the yahwists, and utterly renouncing the xenophobic hatred of the Mohammedist plague.
Religion is the cancer by which our species will succumb to a common death, lest we root it out - cutting off the infected limbs to save the body


----------



## Georgiatec

nuke said:


> Representing my ego couldn't be further form the truth. Everyday people reject the message, much of what I say makes people angry and frustrated, nothing new. I can tell you that everything I have said is backed up in the Bible. Once people are dug in it will be up to the holy spirit to reach those if they are to move off of square.
> 
> I cannot sugar coat or change the gospel of Jesus Christ because people don't agree with it or because it makes them uncomfortable. Many people have accepted it and many more have rejected it. One thing for sure is when you and I die it will be settled.
> 
> Even when the most hardened heart is conscious when they approach death they cry out for God, in all the death I have witnessed I have never heard anyone curse God or cry out for Satan. I digress.



"God" will destroy the earth because some religious nut sooner or later will make sure it happens...this is not directed solely at Christians.


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## Jack92CH

The Abrahamic religions are two of the world's worst problems. They encourage hatred, separation, and condemnation, all under the guise of "salvation," which under Christian standards is nothing short of abject slavery.


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## StootMonster

Just for the record, guys, what nuke said is all scripture. it doesn't matter what translation you read, it's just reworded. Translations don't change the message, they change the wording. Anyone who says otherwise, I would challenge to show proof of that. This a marshall forum and obviously everyone here with the exception of about... oh... 3, don't want anything to do with God. There are other forums for that stuff.

I've found that the best testament to what you believe is your daily walk. SHOW someone what it means to be a Christian. Don't tell them.


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## Will55555

nuke said:


> Representing my ego couldn't be further form the truth. Everyday people reject the message, much of what I say makes people angry and frustrated, nothing new. I can tell you that everything I have said is backed up in the Bible. Once people are dug in it will be up to the holy spirit to reach those if they are to move off of square.
> 
> I cannot sugar coat or change the gospel of Jesus Christ because people don't agree with it or because it makes them uncomfortable. Many people have accepted it and many more have rejected it. One thing for sure is when you and I die it will be settled.
> 
> Even when the most hardened heart is conscious when they approach death they cry out for God, in all the death I have witnessed I have never heard anyone curse God or cry out for Satan. I digress.



You say that everything you said is backed up in the bible. Don't you know that the bible was written by men and not a god. How can u trust a book that was thrown together selectively by a lot of different folks over a long period after the death of Jaysus!

From my experience any of those born again christians are people who have done shitty things in their past and they became born again in a futile attempt to beg forgiveness from a supposedly all seeing all knowing asshole of a god that lets people all over the world suffer for no good reason.

And for your information when people are about to die I'm sure that the fear of the unknown that comes with death makes them say shit like that. Not because they believe but because they are afraid.

What's the difference between the bible, the koran, or whatever book the scientologists read? Absolutely none! They are all imagined and written by men for the purposes of men.

One thing that pisses me off big time is that religions get huge tax subsidies from governments. If they get them then why can't all us non believers set up an organisation to get the same benefits to spend on something productive like educating & helping people who need it most.

Sorry for the rant. I believe all people should be allowed to believe whatever they want even if it seems rather stupid to me.


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## Hollowbody

Papus said:


> Religion: tool of the powermongers, refuge of the weak of will and meek of intellect...




There are many genius who say they believe in a god:

“I want to know how God created this world. I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts; the rest are details.” -Albert Einstein

I guess he was a real dumbass.

I think you would be suprized to find out how many extremely intelligent people believe in god. I can put together a list for you unless you would like to check for yourself.

...nah, you won't, you seem to prefer throwing out a lazy unresearched quote.


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## Georgiatec

nuke said:


> I view my walk with God and my relationship with Jesus as a victory over death.



I view death as a well earned rest from having to listen to shit all my life.


----------



## Hollowbody

Papus said:


> This much is certain: humanity will not survive the next two hundred years if we do not cast off the asinine shackles of religion, liberating ourselves from the venomous hive mind of Christ, abandoning the pious self-aggrandizing persecution complex of the yahwists, and utterly renouncing the xenophobic hatred of the Mohammedist plague.
> Religion is the cancer by which our species will succumb to a common death, lest we root it out - cutting off the infected limbs to save the body



You kinda sound like Stalin and Hitler. 

You can disagree with an idea a concept or a religion, but once you start hating people because of what they believe it will seriously blind you. I'm not saying you prefer genocide but it sure is starting to sound that way.


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## tone seaker

it came and went as usual


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## Georgiatec

Strange how these religious tomes...so reliable for predicting things that happened in history, become less reliable when predicting things that are yet to happen. More like a smudged treasure map than the sat nav to salvation. 
I would love to indulge you more but I'm taking my kids to the Zoo....I like to poke the bears with a big stick.


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## diesect20022000

StootMonster said:


> I've found that the best testament to what you believe is your daily walk. SHOW someone what it means to be a Christian. Don't tell them.


 That seems fair enough to me.


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## Jack92CH

Hollowbody said:


> There are many genius who say they believe in a god:
> 
> “I want to know how God created this world. I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts; the rest are details.” -Albert Einstein
> 
> I guess he was a real dumbass.
> 
> I think you would be suprized to find out how many extremely intelligent people believe in god. I can put together a list for you unless you would like to check for yourself.
> 
> ...nah, you won't, you seem to prefer throwing out a lazy unresearched quote.




Einstein didn't believe in any monarchical, Biblical God. His idea of divinity was the driving force behind the so-called mechanical universe.

"I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own -- a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty."


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## Hollowbody

Jack92CH said:


> Einstein didn't believe in any monarchical, Biblical God. His idea of divinity was the driving force behind the so-called mechanical universe.
> 
> "I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own -- a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty."




That is too abstract of a reference for you to define for him what he believed when he said it. The fact is that he believed in a god and that is what I was referring.

Kinda like how I have seen people define for me what I believe. 

You can read into it what you want for your own purpose, I take that one face value. He was a genius no doubt and he believed in god, no doubt.


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## poeman33

The current most popular version of the bible contains books and translations the religious leaders wanted in the book. It does not include all of them...including all of them purportedly written by apostles, that could have been included. At times there were other books included as well. They were considered sacred writings then...but because someone thought they didn't fit the current view...they were omitted. There are many contradictions in the bible now, and books that were purposely removed often have a different light on things...including the life of Jesus. You can believe anything you want and I have no problem with that, as long as that belief is not used to harm other people. But I do have a problem with people saying..."it must be true, it's in the bible"...or there is proof because it's in the bible. If you interpret what you read as proof enough for your beliefs...fair enough. For other people they believe in the writings of the Torah...and the Koran, etc etc etc. Different cultures and different religions have different sacred writings. They all believe it as proof for their beliefs as well. It is really not proof of anything. It is interpretation of the author, and interpretation of the reader.


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## LesPaulopolis

So did the rapture mathematician guy kill himself yet or what?


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## diesect20022000

LesPaulopolis said:


> So did the rapture mathematician guy kill himself yet or what?


he's "Flabbergasted" and "dissapointed".


I know I'D BE DISSAPOINTED IF MILLIONS DIDN'T DIE.


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## StootMonster

I think at this point, we can pretty well all agree to either agree or disagree and move on. Theological debates never get anyone anywhere.

(also a biblical principle)

BWAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!


JESUS RULES!


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## scat7s

> Even when the most hardened heart is conscious when they approach death they cry out for God, in all the death I have witnessed I have never heard anyone curse God or cry out for Satan. I digress.


 
indeed. there's a lot of hostility for religion here, perhaps in some respects deservedly so. im not a scholar, and you can quibble about interpretations and who edited the bible in its various forms and whatnot, but as i think stoot said, the message is still present, and still relevent.

all this stuff about God allowing horrors to occur is nonsense. this material earth belongs to satan, this is his kingdom, but God is here also, so this is not hell. 
man was given free will, to choose his path. God is not interested in forcing you to accept him, he gives you the choice. the evils and horrors that occur are by satans design, not Gods. 
you make your choice. and to the quote above, it would be interesting to know how many of these hostile reactions might sound different when your day comes. 
'
you guys get all pissy and nasty and offended when someone quotes 'the word of God', its boring, its bullshit, its this its that. i felt the same way about it to be honest. what actually changed my tune, was thru studying the luciferian perspective.
its easier to know and respect God, if you understand satan and his works. he's not very 'cool', despite the marketing in our times. 

i have no doubt that God exists, b/c if you educate yourself, and you take a look around you, you will see that satanic symbolism, doctrine, and ideology is EVERYWHERE, that can and does include the vatican, and the church.

where do you think the US got that infamous moniker of 'the great satan' ? look around you people, satan and his symbolism and culture IS YOUR CULTURE. you have accepted it as the norm. like i said, id be interested to see how many are talking tough on their day...

jack, your a young, obviously intelligent man, do yourself a favor and do a search for 'freeman' or 'the freeman perspective' or freeman tv... .
he's got some very interesting and enlightening information in regards to symbolism, as well as science, technology and its relevence to the bible.
but his research is not pro or anti bible, just deals with the plain facts and kind of leaves his opinions about faith or lack thereof out of it. 
listen to what he says, observe the world around you, that should be more than enough to provide you with any 'proof' you require. get back to me in two years when youve been able to digest a good portion of it. 

the elite tell us everything we need to know, the trick is that we are not equipped to interpret it through the normal channels of education. its not their words, or even their actions that give them away, but their symbols that tell the real story. you can ridicule if you like, but until youve investigated for yourself, your speaking out of ignorance, in my humble opinion.


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## colchar

LesPaulopolis said:


> So did the rapture mathematician guy kill himself yet or what?



Apparently he and his board of directors (what kind of church has a board of directors?!?) are going to meet to decide what to say and do now.

Rapture: Baffled believers face jeers | Mail Online


----------



## colchar

scat7s said:


> indeed. there's a lot of hostility for religion here, perhaps in some respects deservedly so. im not a scholar, and you can quibble about interpretations and who edited the bible in its various forms and whatnot, but as i think stoot said, the message is still present, and still relevent.
> 
> all this stuff about God allowing horrors to occur is nonsense. this material earth belongs to satan, this is his kingdom, but God is here also, so this is not hell.
> man was given free will, to choose his path. God is not interested in forcing you to accept him, he gives you the choice. the evils and horrors that occur are by satans design, not Gods.
> you make your choice. and to the quote above, it would be interesting to know how many of these hostile reactions might sound different when your day comes.
> '
> you guys get all pissy and nasty and offended when someone quotes 'the word of God', its boring, its bullshit, its this its that. i felt the same way about it to be honest. what actually changed my tune, was thru studying the luciferian perspective.
> its easier to know and respect God, if you understand satan and his works. he's not very 'cool', despite the marketing in our times.
> 
> i have no doubt that God exists, b/c if you educate yourself, and you take a look around you, you will see that satanic symbolism, doctrine, and ideology is EVERYWHERE, that can and does include the vatican, and the church.
> 
> where do you think the US got that infamous moniker of 'the great satan' ? look around you people, satan and his symbolism and culture IS YOUR CULTURE. you have accepted it as the norm. like i said, id be interested to see how many are talking tough on their day...
> 
> jack, your a young, obviously intelligent man, do yourself a favor and do a search for 'freeman' or 'the freeman perspective' or freeman tv... .
> he's got some very interesting and enlightening information in regards to symbolism, as well as science, technology and its relevence to the bible.
> but his research is not pro or anti bible, just deals with the plain facts and kind of leaves his opinions about faith or lack thereof out of it.
> listen to what he says, observe the world around you, that should be more than enough to provide you with any 'proof' you require. get back to me in two years when youve been able to digest a good portion of it.
> 
> the elite tell us everything we need to know, the trick is that we are not equipped to interpret it through the normal channels of education. its not their words, or even their actions that give them away, but their symbols that tell the real story. you can ridicule if you like, but until youve investigated for yourself, your speaking out of ignorance, in my humble opinion.


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## colchar

The nutjob at the heart of all this plans to speak tonight. Let the backpedaling begin!


Harold Camping plans to speak about why world didn


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## IbanezMark

Happy No-pocalypse!!!


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## scat7s

blow me


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## Username2

Again this man represents a cult and is in no way a christian, even though the media calls him one . Christians believe the rapture will happen when God is ready for it to happen, the bible provides signs and events to watch for of this time. We Christians are not worried about when this time comes nor the end times because we are saved, we know 100% our desteny. This is the peace that comes over you when you accept Christ. Just thought I would point that out.


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## diesect20022000

nuke said:


> Again this man represents a cult and is in no way a christian, even though the media calls him one . Christians believe the rapture will happen when God is ready for it to happen, the bible provides signs and events to watch for of this time. We Christians are not worried about when this time comes nor the end times because we are saved, we know 100% our desteny. This is the peace that comes over you when you accept Christ. Just thought I would point that out.


 the point if this thread IS the false rapture...just thought i'd point that out. So posting about that makes sense. What doesn't make sense is all this back and fourth about religion.


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## scat7s

here is a tiny sliver of an introduction. it may be easy to ignorantly scoff at, until you look deeper, and learn more and more that it forms some very clear pictures that are very relevent to the world we live in today. his interviews are very good, and i challenge anyone to do some serious veiwing and come back and here and say that it doesnt make any sense, that its all a bunch of bullshit...





*Illuminati Symbolism*

by freemantv on Mar.06, 2010, under the Freeman Perspective
*Thank you so much for your support.*

*What do all these logos have in common?*



*They all represent an aspect of Masonic ritual.*
…but first a word from our sponsors.
The Fascist conception of the State is all-embracing; outside of it no human or spiritual values can exist, much less have value. Thus understood, Fascism is totalitarian, and the Fascist State–a synthesis and a unit inclusive of all values–interprets, develops, and potentiates the whole life of a people.
The Fascist State lays claim to rule in the economic field no less than in others; it makes its action felt throughout the length and breadth of the country by means of its corporate, social, and educational institutions, and all the political, economic, and spiritual forces of the nation, organised in their respective associations, circulate within the State.
Benito Mussolini, 1935, The Doctrine of Fascism
http://a616.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/50/l_fc09ac2ae1a56638f544f8efa46807d7.jpg


“The definition of Freemasonry that it is “a science of morality, veiled in allegory, and illustrated by symbols,” has been so often quoted, that, were it not for its beauty, it would become wearisome. But this definition contains the exact principle that has just been enunciated. Freemasonry is a science—a philosophy—a system of doctrines which is taught, in a manner peculiar to itself, by allegories and symbols. This is its internal character.” Albert Mackey’s “Symbolism of Freemasonry” p.11
“It is for each individual Mason to discover the secret of Masonry, by reflection upon its symbols and a wise consideration and analysis of what is said and done in the work. Masonry does not inculcate her truths. She states them, once and briefly; or hints them, perhaps darkly; or interposes a cloud between them and eyes that would be dazzled by them. “Seek, and ye shall find,” knowledge and truth.” “Morals and Dogma”, Albert Pike on the lessons of the Grand Elect, Perfect, and Sublime Mason. (14th degree) p.218
“The Ancient Astronomers saw all the great Symbols of Masonry in the Stars. Sirius still glitters in our Lodges as the Blazing Star, (l’Etoile Flamboyante). The Sun is still symbolized by the point within a Circle; and, with the Moon and Mercury or, Anubis, in the three Great Lights of the Lodge. Not only to these, but to the figures and numbers exhibited by the Stars, were ascribed peculiar and divine powers.” Morals and Dogma”, Albert Pike on the lessons of “The Knight of the Brazen Serpent”( 25th degree) p.486-7
Contained within corporate logos are symbols that represent aspects of Masonic rituals. Allow me to illustrate…


*The Compass and Square.* Probably the most recognized and enigmatic symbol of all Freemasonry. The Three Great Lights in Masonry are the Holy Bible, Square, and Compass. “The Holy Bible is given to us as the rule and guide of our faith; the Square, to square our actions; and the Compass to circumscribe our desires and keep our passions within due bounds towards all mankind, and more especially towards our brethren in Freemasonry.” It’s interesting to note that at the 2nd degree the square becomes your rule and guide and in the 3rd degree the compass becomes your rule and guide. The Bible is only the guide of Entered Apprentice. The G “is really a corruption of, or perhaps rather a substitution for, the Hebrew letter y (yod), which is the initial of the ineffable name.” “The letter G conveys to the minds of the brethren, the idea of God and that of Geometry.” Enclosed within a triangle, it is a symbol of the Unity of God, known as the “Great Architect of the Universe”.
Some claim that the Compass and Square is a veiled Star of David. This makes perfect sense considering the Templar connection. Some claim that it is a symbol of sexual union. The Freemasons claim they are symbols of the craft the are allegorical of moral lessons, which brings us to the square.


*The Square.* A Freemason seeks to be a “square man”. In Mackey’s Symbolism of Freemasonry, he states that, “In Freemasonry it is a symbol of morality, or the strict performance of every duty.” Note that this logo of Compass bank is a red square, as in “compass and square”, with a sun symbol. The Red Square is a symbol often used in corporate logos and in a nation’s heritage, such as the Red Square in Moscow.
Within magic, the symbol takes on another meaning. Red is the color associated with the planet mars. The square is a symbol of man. Therefore the red square can equate mars man or Martian. An interesting note, the god Mars was also known as Aries. Therefore, Martian can be transliterated into Aryan.
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/2878/1353/1600/squaresml.jpgThe Square is introduced to the Entered Apprentice as one of the three Great Lights of Freemasonry, to the Fellowcraftsman as one of the working tools of his Degree. It is also one of the Jewels of the Lodge, and the special Jewel of the Master of the Lodge. It is probably the most important tool of a Mason, whether an Operative or a Speculative one, for it connects and more or less includes the Level and the Plumb Rule, and it is the only tool by which the rough Ashlar can be prepared and tested; and unless the ashlars are perfect the building cannot be built after any wise plan, or with strength, or with beauty. It is used to form the rude and to prove the perfect mass, and therefore it is of the utmost importance that an implement on which so much depends shall be itself perfectly correct.


*The Cube.* In Masonry you are to work from the rough ashlar to the perfect ashlar. To a Mason, the rough ashlar “is a symbol of men’s natural state of ignorance. But if the perfect ashlar be, in reference to its mode of preparation, considered as a symbol of the social character of Freemasonry, then the rough ashlar must be considered as a symbol of the profane world. In this species of symbolism, the rough and the perfect bear the same relationship to each other as ignorance does to knowledge, death to life, and light to darkness. The rough ashlar is the profane; the perfect ashlar is the initiate.” Mackey’s Symbolism of Freemasonry (p.323) 


*The Rising Sun.* Sun worship is “the most ancient of all superstitions. It prevailed especially in Phoenicia, Chaldea, and Egypt, and traces of it have been found in Peru and Mexico. Its influence was felt in the ancient mysteries, and abundant allusions to it are to be found in the symbolism of Freemasonry.” Albert Mackey “Symbolism of Freemasonry (p.362) The sun sign known as a certain point within a circle, according to Mackey, was undoubtedly of phallic origin. Bill Clinton announced on Y2K, “It is a Rising Sun!” It has, in the past, been a symbol of the Egyptian god, Horus. It is considered by some, to represent the new age of Aquarius and the arrival of new radiation from the galactic core. “The Golden Dawn”. Solar worship has been a focal point for most religions. The swastika is a solar symbol, but have you ever wondered why Hitler canted the swastika?


*The Canted Square.* Within the rituals of occultic orders, such as the Freemasons, it is required that the candidate circle the altar of the lodge in a particular manner. It is called circumambulation. Circumambulation is the practice of “…making a circuit about a thing or in an area of reverence…” In Masonry, circumambulation involves the making of a circuit around the Lodge, while keeping the right hand toward the altar. “The rite is symbolic of the apparent daily course of the sun, and was undoubtedly derived from the ancient sun-worship.” “During the circuits of the lodge room, corners should be squared in accordance with the ancient tradition of “squaring the lodge”. Further, the Entered Apprentice during initiation shall proceed to the northeast corner of the Lodge three times during the circumambulation, the Fellowcraft during passing shall proceed there four times, and the Master being raised shall proceed there five times. 


*The 47th Proposition of Euclid* is known as “that amazing Proposition which is the foundation of all Masonry.” It is also known as the Pythagorean Theorem. The Pythagorean Theorem is important in building, and one of its uses is to square a room. Builders use the theorem to square the corners of rooms by using the ratio of the numbers three, four and five. three squared plus four squared = five squared.
This was, with the Egyptians several thousand years ago, the standard and symbol of perfection ; and they made it also the basis of all their measurements ; they looked on it as the symbol of Universal Nature, the side 4 being Osiris the male principle, 3 the female principle Isis, and 5 Horus the son, the product of these two principles;—they said 3 was the first perfect odd number, that 4 was the square of 2 the first even number, and 5 was the result of 3 and 2.
Any Mason, after having been raised, has reproduced by circumambulation the numbers three, four and five in the most significant corner of the Lodge, the Northeast, and thereby has unknowingly recited with his feet the formula which is contained in the 47th problem, and thereby has “squared the Lodge”.


*The Oblong Square.* Once a candidate has circled the altar and experienced the life and death of the “Widow’s Son”, Hiram Abiff, he is taught the proper way to stand before the Worshipful Master in the East. He is told to “stand with his body erect and his feet forming the angle of an oblong square.” The Egyptians did the same.


*The Templars.* Freemasonry’s origins are obscure. It has been shown that they are most likely a continuation of the Poor Knights of the Temple of Solomon or the Knights Templar. “The Seal of Solomon or the Shield of David, for under both names the same thing was denoted, is a hexagonal figure consisting of two interlaced triangles, thus forming the outlines of a six-pointed star. Upon it was inscribed one of the sacred names of God, from which inscription it was supposed principally to derive its talismanic powers. These powers were very extensive, for it was believed that it would extinguish fire, prevent wounds in a conflict, and perform many other wonders.”
(Encyclopedia of Freemasonry, p. 674)
Many Templar symbols are incorporated into corporate logos. The Skull and Bones is one; the double-cross is another. Look at the Exxon logo again. The Templars are most famous for two things, gold and arches. Solomon’s magic is based in Hebrew, a magic known today as Kabalism or Qabalism. In order to know Qabalism, one must know Hebrew and the Tarot.


*Hebrew and the Tarot.* In Hebrew, letters are numbers. For instance, in Hebrew the number 666 would read VVV or www. Each numerical value has significance, for example 66 is the number of the Qlippoth, also known as the fallen angels; the dark-side. As, I said 6=V in Hebrew, therefore 66 can be represented as W. Hitler’s VW=666 or 66 depending on how you look at it. Conoco can be transliterated to 666 and 90. 90 is the number of the Star in the Tarot. 


*The Pentagram.* “Albert Pike calls it ‘the absolute sign of human intelligence (p.790). The Magician’s Dictionary states, “in a general sense it (the pentacle) stands for all magical symbols and talismans. Specifically, as the pentagram, or five-pointed star, it is the symbol of itself. Therefore, it is the magician’s sine qua non. It is the representative of the material world and human mastery over it.”…and the Masons love it. The stars in the American flag are based on the same Masonic principle. Each state is an independent sovereign, master of its own destiny, in the same way that the magician is master of his own world. One will immediately notice the number of countries that use the pentagram on their flag.
The pentagram (pentacle or pentalpha) is considered by some western occultists to trace its esoteric significance to an astronomical observance of the pattern of Venus’ conjunctions with the Sun.


*Venus* depicts a pentacle every eight years when viewed from earth, sometimes as the “Morning Star” and sometimes as the “Evening Star”. “Lucifer” is the Latin term originally used by the Romans to refer to the planet Venus. For this reason, it is believed that Venus is what is being referred to as Lucifer in the King James Bible and not Satan. There was no link between the words Lucifer and Satan until Milton’s, “Paradise Lost” and Dante’s “Divine Comedy”.


From the Oxford English Dictionary we get that the pentacle was known as a tool used in necromancy. Quoting More’s “Mystic Inquiries”, the dictionary states, “Their pentacles which they hang about their necks when they conjure (which they forsooth…call the Pentacles of Solomon) are adorned and fortified with such transcriptions out of holy Scripture.” And from Dekker’s “Whole of Babylon Works”, it states, “Take Periapts, Pentacles, and potent Charmes to conjure downe foule fiends.” Many believed these charms would protect them on the battlefield.


In Egypt, it was a symbol of *Sirius*. One will notice that the hieroglyph includes an obelisk, a dome, and a pentagram. These symbols will come up often in a study of Freemasonry. Isis (or Sothis) is a representation of Sirius, as well. In Austin, there is an obelisk due north of the capital dome with a goddess holding a pentacle.
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/2878/1353/1600/blazsml.jpg
*The Blazing Star* is a symbol of Sirius in Freemasonry, as well.
“This eminent symbol of the Symbolic Lodges is described there as a hieroglyph of Divine Providence, but Pike sees it as representative of Divine Truth, Sirius (the brightest star in the heavens), and the Sun.” “A Glossary to Morals and Dogma” p.75 Dr. Rex R. Hutchens, 33.
There is an agenda at work; it is the motivations that must be known. These logos give us a clue to the internal character of the group that we are dealing with. There is a “They” and they are proud. Their fingerprint is on every aspect of our lives and the story traces back millennia…from distant stars.
Concerning Owl Symbolism & Bohemian Grove



We should get this straight now, so that there is no more confusion. The owl being displayed by the illuminati is not Molech(moloch). This I hope to put to rest, here and now.
If we consider the symbolism used by the brotherhood, the symbols most prevalent, go to the goddess. In America, we call her Columbia. In England she is known as Brittania, hence British Columbia. In the past she has been known as Semiramis, Ishtar, Anat, Asherah, Isis, Juno, Minerva, Aphrodite, Venus, et al. Now, let’s look at the goddess symbolism. She is known as a triple goddess, trinities relate to her. In the Tarot the 3rd major arcana is the Empress. She is symbolized as a phoenix rising and is known as the eye goddess. As Venus, she is symbolized by a shell and a pentagram. Most of the goddess’ have connections with the merfolk.
Isis in the egyptian pantheon, is a symbol of Sirius, a recently re-discovered trinary star system. It has been shown through history that there is a connection with Sirius and fish-people.
Finally, the goddess is represented by an owl. You will find numerous depictions of the goddess with her owl. Some say that this is due to the correlation between Sophia(wisdom) and the wise old owl. I don’t know. What I do know is the goddess has always been depicted with an owl. Molech is a bull. He is a minor deity with possible links to Baal. Now if Baal had been suggested I would give it more thought, and I have. we’ll come back to Baal.



OK, here we go, abc does not have a logo because the trinity is the logo, NBC is the phoenix replaced by the peacock because of the eye symbolism on the tail. CBS, Columbia Broadcasting Systems has an eye as its symbol. Interestingly the eye in the tarot is the letter ayin which is the Devil card in the major arcana.
Venus is known as the “star of the morning” which is Lucifer in the Bible. A lucifer is also a friction match. Phoenix pictures strikes a lucifer(a friction match) and it becomes a sun low on the horizon and then burns up to a fiery phoenix, Lucifer, uh, I mean Phoenix, Pictures’ movie content includes: genetic manipulation and cloning, child labor camps, and nazi worship. These films feature such stars as Schwartzenegger, Sigourney Weaver, and Stephen King, and are in association with Columbia, Tri-Star, and Disney! Hmmm. But I digress.


The Star of the morning is symbolized by a pentagram due to its travels when viewed from earth. It makes a five-pointed star every 8 years. Venus is symbolized by the shell because of her connection with the life-giving sea. Therefore, Texaco has a pentagram and Shell has a shell. It is goddess reference and this goddess represents Sirius… where the fish-people are from.



Let’s continue. Sysco’s symbol has a cube for the shape which symbolizes man perfected, within the cube are the letters SYSCO. The Y forms the cube, the cube and SS spell Isis, and the CO make the moon and rising sun symbol(the same symbol you will see on the New Orleans Police cars) of the goddess.
Our capital is the District of Columbia and the White house is surrounded by an owl connected to a pentagram. Of course this can only be viewed from space. The capital dome in DC has the goddess on top and the dome itself is a symbol of the goddess. Here, in Austin our Columbia holds a pentagram, in Galveston as well. The phallus symbol of Osiris(Orion) is always secondary to the goddess Isis(Sirius). In Denver, the goddess is on an obelisk holding the torch of Lucifer. The same for the statue of Liberty that was designed by the mason, Eiffel, who crafted the large phallus for the brothers in Paris.



Here in Austin we have a phallus clock tower with owl features, standing due north of the capital dome on top of which stands the goddess, holding a gold pentagram. In between these two symbols stands the goddess with angel wings, on a boat being drawn by fish-people. To her left is a pentagram and to her right is a shell. Next to this building is the Harry Ransom Center which houses the “Book of the Law”; a book Crowley channeled from an extra-terrestrial Atlantean named, Aiwass. This book made Aleister Crowley the most infamous magician in the world. Because we are talking about magic here, are we not? Rituals, incantations, groves…


Bohemian Grove was infiltrated by Alex Jones and although I thought he should have trusted his “Jedi” powers more, I admire the man for what he, and Mike Hanson, did. Unfortunately, symbolism was not high on Alex’s priorities. I understand he has his mission to fulfill. So, in steps Freeman, to attempt to fill in some gaps and correct this one error. You are not witnessing the worship of Moloch. In the Bible Asherah is translated grove. Asherah is also the Biblical version of Ishtar, who is Isis, which represents Sirius. What you see before you could be signs of allegiance to our extra-terrestrial progenitors from Orion and Sirius. This planet and its resources could be the property of another race and the secret societies keeping it all in line. It is well known that NASA is constructed of nazis and freemasons. If you look into such things. The symbol the masons use for Sirius is known as the blazing star. It is a pentagram on fire. Not to be confused with the pentagram of Venus, which is not blazing. This is the symbol on NASA. The space shuttles names run the Columbia Endeavor for the Discovery of Atlantis and all Challengers will be destroyed. There were others sacrificed to Columbia as well. Have you ever wondered what a space shuttle is shuttling? Where did the $30 million in gold, under the towers, disappear to, after Cheney’s trucks cleaned up the mess? Now, you know why Columbia docks with the ISS. It’s always been about the gold.
Happy Ishtar!


----------



## scat7s

double post


----------



## StootMonster

colchar said:


> The nutjob at the heart of all this plans to speak tonight. Let the backpedaling begin!
> 
> 
> Harold Camping plans to speak about why world didn



I'll be waiting with baited breath for this one...

...yeah right.

The sad thing is, people are going to actually listen to what this guy says. 

You'd think they would learn the first 2 times.


----------



## tone seaker

People like Fred Phelps of the Westboro baptist church and Terry Jones certainly hurts all things that are christian


----------



## SpiritOfTheAge

scat7s said:


> here is a tiny sliver of an introduction. it may be easy to ignorantly scoff at, until you look deeper, and learn more and more that it forms some very clear pictures that are very relevent to the world we live in today. his interviews are very good, and i challenge anyone to do some serious veiwing and come back and here and say that it doesnt make any sense, that its all a bunch of bullshit...
> 
> Major Snippage.


----------



## scat7s

> People like Fred Phelps of the Westboro baptist church and Terry Jones certainly hurts all things that are christian






and i dont believe its by accident, whether they realize it or not.


----------



## scat7s

> Major Snippage.


 
what do you mean? how so?

are his excerpts taken out of context? if so, please explain, im all ears...


----------



## colchar

scat7s said:


> here is a tiny sliver of an introduction. it may be easy to ignorantly scoff at, until you look deeper, and learn more and more that it forms some very clear pictures that are very relevent to the world we live in today. his interviews are very good, and i challenge anyone to do some serious veiwing and come back and here and say that it doesnt make any sense, that its all a bunch of bullshit...


----------



## scat7s

colchar, your an ass.


----------



## Jack92CH

There is nothing that I can believe. No group, organization or ideal will ever convince me of anything other than that they are completely full of shit. Anything humans have come up with to try and categorize or explain the nature of now is make-believe, fairy-tale bullshit. We've even convinced ourselves of our own personalities. Everything we do is an act, a big show, and it all comes down to nothing.

The pile of shit is too deep.


----------



## StootMonster

Jack92CH said:


> There is nothing that I can believe. No group, organization or ideal will ever convince me of anything other than that they are completely full of shit. Anything humans have come up with to try and categorize or explain the nature of now is make-believe, fairy-tale bullshit. We've even convinced ourselves of our own personalities. Everything we do is an act, a big show, and it all comes down to nothing.
> 
> The pile of shit is too deep.



LOL, the ironic thing is, you just summed up the book of Ecclesiastes. Don't believe me? Read it.

1 The words of the Teacher,[a] son of David, king in Jerusalem:
2 “Meaningless! Meaningless!” 
says the Teacher. 
“Utterly meaningless! 
Everything is meaningless.”

3 What do people gain from all their labors 
at which they toil under the sun? 
4 Generations come and generations go, 
but the earth remains forever. 
5 The sun rises and the sun sets, 
and hurries back to where it rises. 
6 The wind blows to the south 
and turns to the north; 
round and round it goes, 
ever returning on its course. 
7 All streams flow into the sea, 
yet the sea is never full. 
To the place the streams come from, 
there they return again. 
8 All things are wearisome, 
more than one can say. 
The eye never has enough of seeing, 
nor the ear its fill of hearing. 
9 What has been will be again, 
what has been done will be done again; 
there is nothing new under the sun. 
10 Is there anything of which one can say, 
“Look! This is something new”? 
It was here already, long ago; 
it was here before our time. 
11 No one remembers the former generations, 
and even those yet to come 
will not be remembered 
by those who follow them.


----------



## colchar

scat7s said:


> colchar, your an ass.



So because I don't believe in bullshit conspiracy theories, _I'm_ an ass?!? Not even close. People who are so mindless as to believe that crap are the asses and if you continue to post that shit I'll continue to express my dismay through the liberal use of facepalm imagery. Your post was so full of falsehoods, half-truths, outright lies, logical inconsistencies, and lapses in logic that it would be funny if it weren't so completely and utterly pathetic. The scariest things is that people who believe what you do are allowed to vote. Seriously, it is high time we instituted an 'idiocy threshold' for voting and anyone who fell below that threshold would be prevented from having any say in who gets elected. Why? Because those people are so stupid that their right to vote should be rescinded so as not to allow them any influence whatsoever until they get their heads out of their asses and reach an acceptable level of common sense.


----------



## Jack92CH

As if voting decided things.


----------



## diesect20022000

popcorn anyone? (crunch, crunch)


----------



## LesPaulopolis

colchar said:


> So because I don't believe in bullshit conspiracy theories, _I'm_ an ass?!? Not even close. People who are so mindless as to believe that crap are the asses and if you continue to post that shit I'll continue to express my dismay through the liberal use of facepalm imagery. Your post was so full of falsehoods, half-truths, outright lies, logical inconsistencies, and lapses in logic that it would be funny if it weren't so completely and utterly pathetic. The scariest things is that people who believe what you do are allowed to vote. Seriously, it is high time we instituted an 'idiocy threshold' for voting and anyone who fell below that threshold would be prevented from having any say in who gets elected. Why? Because those people are so stupid that their right to vote should be rescinded so as not to allow them any influence whatsoever until they get their heads out of their asses and reach an acceptable level of common sense.



I'd rather be classified as a "nut" who does some of his own research (however "shoddy") than sheepfully fall in line and believe everything the powers that be feed you.

Knowledge is power. Hell, working anywhere you'll discover that the bosses keep the flow of information on a need-to-know basis. From working at McDonalds all the way to the tippy top.

Is voting based on conspiracy theories really any different than voting Republican-only because growing up church said abortions and gays = satan?

Yin and yang IMO.

shred does a bigger service to the general population by exposing people to the idea that everything may not be as it appears. To blindly accept everything (from any side) as 100% proof because you're too lazy to look at the other point of view is exactly how we got into this crappy global situation in the first place IMO.


----------



## colchar

Jack92CH said:


> As if voting decided things.



True, but the overall point is that to be a participating member of society one should have to function above a certain level of idiocy.


----------



## colchar

LesPaulopolis said:


> I'd rather be classified as a "nut" who does some of his own research (however "shoddy") than sheepfully fall in line and believe everything the powers that be feed you.



And there is it. I wondered how long it would take for someone to post this tired crap.

I've got news for you A) your research isn't likely to be valid as you probably lack the skills to do real research; B) calling those who do not buy into conspiracy theories 'sheep' is a pathetic tactic used by those who do believe in tired conspiracy theories to fortify their position ("look at me, I am so smart, I've figured out something that millions of people haven't") when a far more likely explanation is that the only true sheep are those who follow tired conspiracy theories because they are unable to see them for what they really are and because they reinforce preconceived notions held by those who follow them.




> Knowledge is power.



No shit.



> Hell, working anywhere you'll discover that the bosses keep the flow of information on a need-to-know basis. From working at McDonalds all the way to the tippy top.



The implication here is so far from being true as to be laughable.




> Is voting based on conspiracy theories really any different than voting Republican-only because growing up church said abortions and gays = satan?



Nope, it isn't. I would subject everyone to the idiocy test.





> shred does a bigger service to the general population by exposing people to the idea that everything may not be as it appears. To blindly accept everything (from any side) as 100% proof because you're too lazy to look at the other point of view is exactly how we got into this crappy global situation in the first place IMO.



I am one of the biggest cynics you will ever meet and my academic training (years and years in graduate school) has conditioned me to _always_ look at as many sides of an issue as possible. The point is that those who believe conspiracy theories do not practice what they preach and they only look at one side - the one that supports their preconceived notions. And, in addition, it is entirely possible to look at multiple sides of issues, as I regularly do, and to come to one's own conclusion - a conclusion that also leads to the belief that those who believe in conspiracy theories are idiots. I mean c'mon, governments cannot pass a budget without details leaking all over the place but 9/11 was an inside job? Give me a fvcking break! Either our governments are full of idiots or they are all geniuses - you can't have it both ways.


----------



## NewReligion

This crap is still going?


----------



## IbanezMark

NewReligion said:


> This crap is still going?



Apparently


----------



## scat7s

right colchar, im stupid by virtue of believing in something that you dont. 

must be nice to be so omnipotent. 

i actually think that says more about you than it does me. but then again, im obviously mindless...


----------



## colchar

scat7s said:


> right colchar, im stupid by virtue of believing in something that you dont.
> 
> must be nice to be so omnipotent.
> 
> i actually think that says more about you than it does me. but then again, im obviously mindless...



No, you are not stupid for believing something that I don't. Diversity of opinions are what makes this world so interesting. it would be a pretty boring place if we all believed the same things. What is stupid is believing in tired crap, that has _absolutely no factual basis whatsoever_, just because it fits into your preconceived notions. Believing this crap is not evidence that you think for yourself. In fact, it is evidence of the exact opposite.

If you can provide any facts, and I mean _real_ facts, to support any of the ridiculous conspiracy theories in which you believe then I am more than willing to listen.


----------



## LesPaulopolis

colchar said:


> And there is it. I wondered how long it would take for someone to post this tired crap.
> 
> I've got news for you A) your research isn't likely to be valid as you probably lack the skills to do real research; B) calling those who do not buy into conspiracy theories 'sheep' is a pathetic tactic used by those who do believe in tired conspiracy theories to fortify their position ("look at me, I am so smart, I've figured out something that millions of people haven't") when a far more likely explanation is that the only true sheep are those who follow tired conspiracy theories because they are unable to see them for what they really are and because they reinforce preconceived notions held by those who follow them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No shit.
> 
> 
> 
> The implication here is so far from being true as to be laughable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, it isn't. I would subject everyone to the idiocy test.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am one of the biggest cynics you will ever meet and my academic training (years and years in graduate school) has conditioned me to _always_ look at as many sides of an issue as possible. The point is that those who believe conspiracy theories do not practice what they preach and they only look at one side - the one that supports their preconceived notions. And, in addition, it is entirely possible to look at multiple sides of issues, as I regularly do, and to come to one's own conclusion - a conclusion that also leads to the belief that those who believe in conspiracy theories are idiots. I mean c'mon, governments cannot pass a budget without details leaking all over the place but 9/11 was an inside job? Give me a fvcking break! Either our governments are full of idiots or they are all geniuses - you can't have it both ways.



Oh, great! Thanks!! So glad you could steer us in the right direction with your amazing years and years in graduate school!!! Apparently you got an "A" in sweeping generalizations and 'know-it-all-ness' of each and every conspiracy ever conceived.

You've obviously got a chip on your shoulder.

I encourage everyone to think for themselves and not let someone "shame" you into drinking the kool aid (this goes for both sides).


----------



## shredless

LesPaulopolis said:


> _shred_ does a bigger service to the general population by exposing people to the idea that everything may not be as it appears.



How did I get dragged into this?


----------



## scat7s

well said lespaulopolis.

what i have, as facts, cannot simply be stated in a sentence or two. it is hundreds of years of political history

. it is thousands of yrs of religion and symbology. i cant lay it out for you in a neat little paragraph, and frankly, you strike me as just too thick headed to accept anything that you dont already have in your head anyway. 

we are but just the lowly profane.


----------



## colchar

LesPaulopolis said:


> Oh, great! Thanks!! So glad you could steer us in the right direction with your amazing years and years in graduate school!!! Apparently you got an "A" in sweeping generalizations and 'know-it-all-ness' of each and every conspiracy ever conceived.



Not at all. I am just able to see as many sides as possible, evaluate the evidence provided by each side, and then draw a conclusion. Those are skills severely lacking in conspiracy theorists.




> You've obviously got a chip on your shoulder.



Nope, just a very low tolerance for stupidity.


----------



## colchar

scat7s said:


> well said lespaulopolis.
> 
> what i have, as facts, cannot simply be stated in a sentence or two. it is hundreds of years of political history



Nice cop out. And, being a historian, I call bullshit on that. Besides, you don't have to restate it, just point me to it and I'll happily read it for myself. Being an expert, I can read it and analyze it pretty damned easily. Oh, and before I turned to social history, political history was one of my areas of specialization so your alleged 'evidence' is right in my wheelhouse.



> it is thousands of yrs of religion and symbology. i cant lay it out for you in a neat little paragraph



Probably because you believe it without truly understanding it yourself. With the proper critical thinking skills and writing ability one can summarize a book like the Bible in a sentence or two so, if you really do understand the stuff you believe, why don't you try it?



> and frankly, you strike me as just too thick headed to accept anything that you dont already have in your head anyway.



Pot calling the kettle black eh? The only one who is thick here is the one professing belief in something he cannot summarize (as I said, most likely because you don't truly understand it anyway) and who believes in things, not because they have any factual basis whatsoever, but, rather, because they fit neatly into his preconceived notions.


----------



## StootMonster




----------



## colchar

StootMonster said:


>







Actually, I am going to step out of this little exchange for a while, entertaining though it is, as I have work to do and would like to get it done asap so that I can watch the hockey tonight. Besides, we are just seeing the start of what is supposed to be one hell of a thunderstorm so I suspect that we'll be having a power outage shortly and I'd best get some work done before that happens.

I'll pop back in later though to see if any actual evidence, from "hundreds of years of political history", has actually been posted. Somehow I already know that none will have been.


----------



## scat7s

your a pc of work colchar.

i think we should start a new thread, if we're really going to go at this, then lets do it fresh.

i'll get something started, and we'll go from there, you can enlighten us all. im just going to throw some stuff at you and you can disseminate as you see fit, but lets try to keep the insulting adjectives to a minimum shall we?


----------



## colchar

scat7s said:


> your a pc of work colchar.
> 
> i think we should start a new thread, if we're really going to go at this, then lets do it fresh.
> 
> i'll get something started, and we'll go from there, you can enlighten us all. im just going to throw some stuff at you and you can disseminate as you see fit, but lets try to keep the insulting adjectives to a minimum shall we?





I've seen the thread and the attempt was even more pathetic than the lyrics in that _Friday_ video that is all over You Tube.

When you've got something legitimate to say, which is backed up by actual facts, I'll be waiting. Somehow I think that will be a long long wait though.


----------



## Papus

Free a mind - burn a bible!


----------



## Username2

For those of you searching for knowledge and are open to hearing what hell really is, what happens to people there please watch the video below. It explains in great detail what one would experience in hell. It explains with proof from the Bible answers to many questions brought on this thread. Questions like why is there painand suffering on earth if God is here, why would I be doomed to Hell even though I am a good person.

Personally this video scares the shit out of me. 

While the video is 47 minutes long it will walk you through in detail what hell is. I hope any one of you who think it is all bullshit at least give it a look. If after watching it you still think its bullshit...fine. At least you will know. 

I give you for consideration a man who actually spent 23 minutes in Hell. The story start at 10:37

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vv8pLUMDVRc&feature=related"]YouTube - ‪23 MINUTES IN HELL (DVD full lenght video) by Bill Wiese Testimony of hell, 23 questions about hell‬&rlm;[/ame]


----------



## RiverRatt

nuke said:


> Personally this video scares the shit out of me.



Hence the need for a God to deliver you from it. That's the way it works. How do these idiots have first-hand knowledge of what Hell is like? You bashed me for being in the media a few pages back... what do you think that tripe is? Man, if you're scared into religion by a YouTube video, well, maybe you need to take a step back and do a reality check. This is MADE UP BULLSHIT. Period.


----------



## Adwex

scat7s said:


> ..... but lets try to keep the insulting adjectives to a minimum shall we?



Please.


----------



## NewReligion

LMAO! 23 Minutes? 

I was married for 14 years, I know what hell is.


----------



## Username2

RiverRatt said:


> Hence the need for a God to deliver you from it. That's the way it works. How do these idiots have first-hand knowledge of what Hell is like? You bashed me for being in the media a few pages back... what do you think that tripe is? Man, if you're scared into religion by a YouTube video, well, maybe you need to take a step back and do a reality check. This is MADE UP BULLSHIT. Period.


 

God has the power to show someone hell and return them to earth. Yes this is a Youtube video but it was just one of Billl Wiese testimonies copied off a DVD. 

I hope you watch it and hear the message, I am sharing it with you because even though I sense the frustration with me from my posts, I am doing it because I care about all people who do not know the love of God. Again you can call it bullshit but you need to know.


----------



## RiverRatt

Yes, sorry, there are just a very few certain things that get under my skin. Nuke, I'm sorry, I hope you are perfectly happy in your beliefs. I don't claim to be enlightened or more intelligent than anybody, it's just that religion strikes me about the same way as all the other children's fairy tales I grew up with. I will not and cannot atone to your God because I can't convince myself that he exists. I may be wrong, you may be right, but it's just the way I believe. Christians speak of intolerance or inacceptance, but if I made my beliefs known on a local level, I would probably lose my business and have to move away from here to ever know any peace. That makes me a little testy sometimes.


----------



## colchar

nuke said:


> For those of you searching for knowledge and are open to hearing what hell really is, what happens to people there please watch the video below. It explains in great detail what one would experience in hell. It explains with proof from the Bible answers to many questions brought on this thread. Questions like why is there painand suffering on earth if God is here, why would I be doomed to Hell even though I am a good person.
> 
> Personally this video scares the shit out of me.
> 
> While the video is 47 minutes long it will walk you through in detail what hell is. I hope any one of you who think it is all bullshit at least give it a look. If after watching it you still think its bullshit...fine. At least you will know.
> 
> I give you for consideration a man who actually spent 23 minutes in Hell. The story start at 10:37
> 
> YouTube - ‪23 MINUTES IN HELL (DVD full lenght video) by Bill Wiese Testimony of hell, 23 questions about hell‬&rlm;


----------



## Jack92CH

One man's psychotic episode is no basis for the notion of an afterlife. While this guy's account is interesting, you must also take into consideration the mystical experiences of those of other spiritual convictions. Who is really in the know? Who follows the "right" deity?


----------



## colchar

Jack92CH said:


> Who is really in the know? Who follows the "right" deity?



When we die we're all gonna find out that it was the Hari Krishnas who were right all along. Man, wouldn't that be a piss off?


----------



## Jack92CH

colchar said:


> When we die we're all gonna find out that it was the Hari Krishnas who were right all along. Man, wouldn't that be a piss off?



At least Krishna wouldn't toss you into a pit of eternal anguish because you didn't like him.


----------



## Username2

Jack92CH said:


> One man's psychotic episode is no basis for the notion of an afterlife. While this guy's account is interesting, you must also take into consideration the mystical experiences of those of other spiritual convictions. Who is really in the know? Who follows the "right" deity?


 
The video was posted more because he answered many question that some of you had earlier in this thread. He is one of many who have either seen heaven or seen hell, I personally believe he had this experience. 

There is but one living true God and he is a jealous God. God has always been, he created the Heavens and the Earth and did this way before before the Muslim God, the Hindu God or even Buddha was even thought of. If you are Muslim and convert to Christianity you are to be killed, does this sound like something God would command. 

Many Muslims want nothing more then to kill every Jew that is on this earth. Since the Jews are Gods chosen people and God does not command his people to break his own commandments (Thou shalt not kill) you tell me which God is real. 

God says in his commandments "Thou shalt have NO other Gods before me"


----------



## RiverRatt

But if you'll check your chronology, you'll find that the Christian God was the last in line to be worshipped. I don't mean bible chronology, either. I mean proven archaeological chronology. Did you know that many of the old testament stories from the bible are also recorded in Egyptian writings that predate the biblical account by over 500 years? Did you know that most of the current church holidays are based not upon biblical teachings but were adopted by the church to coincide with Pagan ceremonies that the church found offensive? Are you aware that the great Satan himself as you picture him is not the biblical Satan but a Pagan fertility god instead? No other Gods before me? Please.


----------



## Jack92CH

nuke said:


> There is but one living true God and he is a jealous God. God came way before the Muslim God, the Hindu God or even Buddha. If you are Muslim and convert to Christianity you are to be killed, does this sound like something God would command.
> 
> Muslims want nothing more then to kill every Jew that is on this earth. Since the Jews are Gods chosen people and God does not command his people to break his own commandments (Thou shalt not kill) you tell me which God is real.
> 
> God says in his commandments "Thou shalt have NO other Gods before me"



God? Jealous? Sounds awfully human to me. 

What Muslim God? It's the same as yours. Judaism, Christianity, Islam - The same God pumping out updated autobiographies. When Jesus did his thing the majority of the Jews didn't catch on, while a minority became "Christians." When Mohammed did his thing the majority of the Christians didn't catch on, while a minority became "Muslims." If anybody has got their shit straight in terms of literal theology I'd say the Muslims (the real Muslims, not the animals they show you on the news.) are more hip with God than you are - you're a book behind!

Buddhism is not a religion, save the few who actually "worship" Buddha. And if I recall correctly the Atman (or Brahman, I don't remember which) of Hinduism is nowhere near the authoritarian, personal God as mentioned in the Abrahamic religions. Hinduism teaches that we are all a symptom of the expression of divinity, that we are in essence God, which in my opinion is far more appealing than being the obligated slave of an autocratic dictator who's got a soul fetish.


----------



## Username2

I have to be careful here not to morph myself into Billy Graham and start with the fire and brimstone, go Ecclesiastes if you will. I will just say I absolutely disagree and your point was taken.


----------



## StootMonster

I have a news flash for you, Jack: the animals on the news ARE the real muslims. Read the Koran for yourself.


----------



## colchar

Jack92CH said:


> At least Krishna wouldn't toss you into a pit of eternal anguish because you didn't like him.



True. But he'd make us dance around banging tambourines all damned day. I'm thinking the pit of eternal anguish might be preferable to that.


----------



## colchar

nuke said:


> Many Muslims want nothing more then to kill every Jew that is on this earth. Since the Jews are Gods chosen people and God does not command his people to break his own commandments (Thou shalt not kill) you tell me which God is real.




But your Bible claims that children who disobey their parents should be taken to the gates of the city and stoned to death. What was that about your God not commanding his people to break his commandments?


----------



## Jack92CH

StootMonster said:


> I have a news flash for you, Jack: the animals on the news ARE the real muslims. Read the Koran for yourself.



I've read parts, it's insanity. I've known a few Muslims who are completely unassuming, passive, and generally good folks though. It depends on which moral system they were raised. Some are pricks, some are cool.


----------



## Username2

Jealousy is an ugly word. It has overtones of selfishness, suspicion, and distrust, and implies a hideous resentment or hostility toward other people because they enjoy some advantage. It is possessive, demanding, and overbearing; and that is repulsive. It stifles freedom and individuality, it degrades and demeans, it breeds tension and discord, it destroys friendships and marriages. We view jealousy as a horrible trait and we hate it.

We do not read very far in the Bible before we hear God saying, “You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth. You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God” (Exodus 20:4-5). A jealous God! How can a God who is holy, just, loving, gracious, merciful, and long-suffering possibly be jealous? 

God’s name is the epitome of who and what He is, and He says His name is Jealous. Jealousy is not merely a passing mood with God. It is the essence of His person. He cannot be other than jealous. Since He is the highest and greatest being there is, infinitely holy and glorious, He must be passionately committed to preserving His honor and supremacy. He must zealously desire exclusive devotion and worship. To do less would make Him less than God. He said about Himself:

I am the LORD, that is My name; 
I will not give My glory to another, 
Nor My praise to graven images (Isaiah 42:8).


----------



## colchar

Jack92CH said:


> I've read parts, it's insanity. I've known a few Muslims who are completely unassuming, passive, and generally good folks though. It depends on which moral system they were raised. Some are pricks, some are cool.



Same as Christians I think. Those who take their holy book literally are messed up. Those who use it as a guide for their life but realize it is not to be taken literally are fine. The problem is that there are too many Muslims who take their book literally.


----------



## Jack92CH

colchar said:


> True. But he'd make us dance around banging tambourines all damned day. I'm thinking the pit of eternal anguish might be preferable to that.



I'm sure Krishna is the sort of dude who won't boss you around. If you prefer a Marshall and a Les Paul over a tambourine, let 'er rip.


----------



## StootMonster

There are plenty of examples in the Bible of God telling the Israelites to kill. And although it says "thou shalt not kill" in the commandments, it says in Ecc there's a time to kill. And before anyone tries to jump all over that as a contradiction, think about it first. it's talking about murder vs war.


----------



## colchar

Jack92CH said:


> I'm sure Krishna is the sort of dude who won't boss you around. If you prefer a Marshall and a Les Paul over a tambourine, let 'er rip.



If that's true then I'm in!

I woulda been happy if he'd just let me bring my acoustic but if he's gonna let me bring my Les Paul and a Marshall I'll convert tomorrow!


----------



## StootMonster

colchar said:


> Same as Christians I think. Those who take their holy book literally are messed up. Those who use it as a guide for their life but realize it is not to be taken literally are fine. The problem is that there are too many Muslims who take their book literally.



Don't make blanket statements. I take it literally. The only thing that messed me up was combat. My faith in God is what keeps me from snapping and detonating on somebody... and just so you know, the faith came before the combat, it wasn't an attempt to rationalize anything that led me to God.


----------



## Username2

colchar said:


> But your Bible claims that children who disobey their parents should be taken to the gates of the city and stoned to death. What was that about your God not commanding his people to break his commandments?


 
This is in the Old Testament. When Jesus came to this earth to walk among us it created the new covenant, the New Testament if you will. Because now the we have a way to be forgiven for our sins the old ways of sacrifice and things like you quote above are no longer done. Again the wages of sin is death, but through the blood shed by Jesus Christ we no longer have to pay for our sins, Jesus did that.


----------



## colchar

nuke said:


> This is in the Old Testament. When Jesus came to this earth to walk among us it created the new covenant, the New Testament if you will. Because now the we have a way to be forgiven for our sins the old ways of sacrifice and things like you quote above are no longer done.



So the New Testament kind of supersedes the Old Testament then?


----------



## Jack92CH

nuke said:


> It is the essence of His person. He cannot be other than jealous. Since He is the highest and greatest being there is, infinitely holy and glorious, He must be passionately committed to preserving His honor and supremacy. He must zealously desire exclusive devotion and worship. To do less would make Him less than God.



Man, I'm pretty sure if God was God, he wouldn't NEED to preserve his honor and supremacy, he would BE honor and supremacy. If supremacy needs preservation, it was never supreme in the first place.

God is an insecure moron is what you're saying. You're not doing much good for your big papa, here.


----------



## StootMonster

I think what he meant (I hope) is that God loves you and doesn't want you to worship another God. The same as if my wife was in love with another man. I love my wife intensely. I would flip if she loved someone else. It's not really a mysterious concept about God being jealous.


----------



## Buggs.Crosby




----------



## StootMonster

annnnnnnnnnnnnnd with that, yall have fun with this one. See you in the other threads.


----------



## Jack92CH

StootMonster said:


> annnnnnnnnnnnnnd with that, yall have fun with this one. See you in the other threads.



You're never finished!


----------



## Username2

Jack92CH said:


> Man, I'm pretty sure if God was God, he wouldn't NEED to preserve his honor and supremacy, he would BE honor and supremacy. If supremacy needs preservation, it was never supreme in the first place.
> 
> God is an insecure moron is what you're saying. You're not doing much good for your big papa, here.


 
Sorry Jack you can't grasp it. The Jealousy word had a bit of a different meaning way back then, let me put it in modern terms for you.

If anyone one you worship another God or say I am not God I will know and you will be dealt with in the harshest terms. Let me know how that works out for you.


----------



## RiverRatt

Nuke, I think Blind Faith is the issue here. You seem willing to swallow and spew out anything that anybody tells you is Christian when it's not. Videos and spouting scripture are not going to impress. I totally respect stoot and the other guys who have spoken from their heart here, but you are just throwing what's been spoon-fed to you back at us with no comprehension or understanding.


----------



## Jack92CH

nuke said:


> Sorry Jack you can't grasp it. The Jealousy word had a bit of a different meaning way back then, let me put it in modern terms for you.
> 
> If anyone one you worship another God or say I am not God I will know and you will be dealt with in the harshest terms. Let me know how that works out for you.



That's just about the same as the word "jealousy" as it is...a malicious response to rejection. If by the passage of time the meaning of words changed drastically enough to alter their very definition, then I'd say the Bible was even more convoluted. 

The Biblical God is basically human, for he is a human creation.


----------



## Username2

RiverRatt said:


> Nuke, I think Blind Faith is the issue here. You seem willing to swallow and spew out anything that anybody tells you is Christian when it's not. Videos and spouting scripture are not going to impress. I totally respect stoot and the other guys who have spoken from their heart here, but you are just throwing what's been spoon-fed to you back at us with no comprehension or understanding.


 
Fair enough, I tend to go fire and brimstone but that is from the heart, but it is more passion then anything else. I think I have said my piece and made my points. I will admit to the non believer this is going to look heavy handed. 

I will end this by saying one last thing. I hung in the thread because God was trying to reach someone here, he must have because I am at peace leaving it alone now.


----------



## Jack92CH

nuke said:


> Fair enough, I tend to go fire and brimstone but that is from the heart, but it is more passion then anything else. I think I have said my piece and made my points. I will admit to the non believer this is going to look heavy handed.
> 
> I will end this by saying one last thing. I hung in the thread because God was trying to reach someone here, he must have because I am at peace leaving it alone now.



Spooky.


----------



## Las Palmas Norte

We got a 6 month reprieve ... lol 

The Christian radio host Harold camping, says he took refuge in a motel when his May 21 prediction didn't come true. Now he says the date is October 21.


----------



## colchar

Las Palmas Norte said:


> We got a 6 month reprieve ... lol
> 
> The Christian radio host Harold camping, says he took refuge in a motel when his May 21 prediction didn't come true. Now he says the date is October 21.



Oh yeah, the backpedaling has begun in earnest.


Preacher says he was 5 months off, Judgment Day will occur in October - thestar.com


----------



## diesect20022000

colchar said:


> Oh yeah, the backpedaling has begun in earnest.
> 
> 
> Preacher says he was 5 months off, Judgment Day will occur in October - thestar.com


Well i don't know about you my friend but, that gives me time to buy another Marshall me thinks


and then some to play it, get old,whatch my 4 year old have grand children and die of general heart failure due to old age .


----------



## Papus

After almost 40 years of studying and questioning god and all things supernatural I've reached the conclusion that if there is a god, he's a c*nt and religion is pure horse shit.
I won't back that up by spewing either scripture or Dawkins, suffice to say I'm 95% athiest and 5% thinking god is a useless, distant, cruel asshole.
I don't give a shit for your obsolete gods and holy books - know them by their fruits: WAR


----------



## Australian

Papas STFU for Gods sake!


----------



## Buggs.Crosby

Oh look....10 hours of Bible Bliss......sadly i wont be home that day
History channel gives 10 hours to 'The Bible' - Yahoo! News


----------



## Buggs.Crosby

nuke said:


> For those of you searching for knowledge and are open to hearing what hell really is, what happens to people there please watch the video below. It explains in great detail what one would experience in hell. It explains with proof from the Bible answers to many questions brought on this thread. Questions like why is there painand suffering on earth if God is here, why would I be doomed to Hell even though I am a good person.
> 
> Personally this video scares the shit out of me.
> 
> While the video is 47 minutes long it will walk you through in detail what hell is. I hope any one of you who think it is all bullshit at least give it a look. If after watching it you still think its bullshit...fine. At least you will know.
> 
> I give you for consideration a man who actually spent 23 minutes in Hell. The story start at 10:37
> 
> YouTube - ‪23 MINUTES IN HELL (DVD full lenght video) by Bill Wiese Testimony of hell, 23 questions about hell‬&rlm;



This describes what i think of that Video

"Satellite dish shields my eyes
Reaching to heaven thru a whole in the sky
Striking like iron at a thunderous heart 
Burning it's signal two worlds apart
False prophet lies on my TV set
Taking advantage of the ignorant
Jesus needs money, Jesus needs cash
Preacher needs a paint job on his Cadillac


Fool the weak with promises
Cause their lives are a mess
Turn on, Plug in Jesus once again 

A lame fat fuck with Christian hair
His spineless wife is sitting near
God talks to him so that's OK for one hundred bucks you can join the crusade
Dodgers stadium filled to the blind
TV preachers a step below slime
word is dangerous to describe his kind
things get worse when he believes his own lies

Quick talking scumbag vanish from sight
TV preachers just obstructing the light
Monsters like them are more vulgar than sin
Turn on, Plug in Jesus once again"

"Kyle Toucher 1986"


----------



## Hollowbody

Papus said:


> After almost 40 years of studying and questioning god and all things supernatural I've reached the conclusion that if there is a god, he's a c*nt and religion is pure horse shit.
> I won't back that up by spewing either scripture or Dawkins, suffice to say I'm 95% athiest and 5% thinking god is a useless, distant, cruel asshole.
> I don't give a shit for your obsolete gods and holy books - know them by their fruits: WAR



You sound so angry and self-righteous, you remind me of the people you are bitching about. I say Papus should start a crusade or an inquisition, imagine how many heretics you could eliminate.


----------



## Hollowbody

Go here: http://www.marshallforum.com/backstage/28215-neighbors-complaining.html

Sooo much better and waaay more fun.

peace


----------



## SmokeyDopey

Hey what happened with that one guy with the donations and May 21st thing?

How much did he spend in advertising and how much was donated?


----------



## IbanezMark

SmokeyDopey said:


> Hey what happened with that one guy with the donations and May 21st thing?
> 
> How much did he spend in advertising and how much was donated?



I think he bailed and moved to Guam


----------



## SmokeyDopey




----------



## Jack92CH

Apparently, we're all going to die on October 21st now. May 21 was just a "spiritual" rapture...so says the guy who supposedly figured all this shit out...and October will be the real deal. 

Pack your shit folks! We're going away.


----------



## StootMonster

I just hope you guys understand that he's a total nutjob that in no way represents Christianity. I know some of you think all christians are nutjobs. If that's the case, just think of a looney bin full of whacko's and there's one guy the whacko's won't touch becuase they think he's crazy...


Anyway, you get what I'm saying. He has scripture so twisted and backwards it's pathetic. He don't know the rapture from Pittsburgh.


----------



## RiverRatt

There are nuts everywhere, not just Christians. All you have to do is visit the local Walmart. I lost my lower left leg back in 1988. About the first time I went out in public afterwards I had a guy come up to me in a restaurant and told me that if I had the faith, God would grow that leg back for me. I just smiled at him and left (quickly). The old dude who ran the music store I worked at between college and real life told me one time that a fanatic of any kind is a pain in the ass. That statement has always stayed with me.


----------



## Papus

You can release yourself but the only way is down.
- Dio


----------



## Hollowbody

Dio's voice is amazing to me. I still remember the first time I heard "Rainbow in the Dark".

off topic ...sorry


----------



## big dooley

cheer up people....

41


----------



## IronMaidenNutter

nuke said:


> True Christians are not easily offended like true non believers. When you are saved Gods love works through you. Even God loved Osama but just like you and I he will be judged.
> 
> First lets get these few people out of the way who said the rapture was today. They are a cult and do not represent true Christians although the media would love for you to believe this to further demonize christians as whacked out. Just like those who say they are a Baptist church and scream at funerals of our dead military. These are false prophets meant to confuse you and point you to Satan by you dismissing God.
> 
> God said "I come like a thief in the night" nobody knows the time but the rapture will happen, when... nobody knows. What I do know is the end times are very near and most prophecy has come to pass. For any of you non believers there is only a few more things that must happen before the rapture and the second coming of Christ. Keep your eye to Israel and Jerusalem.
> 
> *1 Thessalonians 5:2* says, "For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night."
> 
> Revelation 3:3, "Remember therefore what you have received and heard; and keep it, and repent. If therefore you will not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you."
> 
> 
> 2 Peter 3:10, "But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up."
> 
> 
> 
> No other book has stood the test of time other then the bible. It is Gods word. Many have tried to disprove it and failed repeatably at it. As you read the bible God will speak to you through the Holy Ghost. You must have faith.
> 
> 
> All I can say is Jesus is real. Many witnessed his death and thousands witnessed him walking among the people days after his death. His words still ring true today. I was a non believer and used to laugh at this until I witnessed death, not one death but many deaths. There is a real battle for your soul when you die. I have seen this first hand many times. I have seen the dying start to be tortured by demons and scream out in fear. I have seen the saved close their eyes in peace with no fear. I am still a sinner but because I have repented and accepted Christ, the price Jesus paid for me allows me salvation. I am saved.
> 
> God cannot look upon sin because he is holy, there has to be a price paid for sin and Jesus paid that price. No greater love has ever been shown. Jesus offers the the greatest gift anyone could ever receive and its free, he paid the price for you, it is the gift of eternal life. This is what true Christians believe.
> 
> God tells us not to be ashamed of him. If we are ashamed of him he will reject you in front of the father on your judgment day. It will be easy for many to mock and attack me after writing this, I expect it. But just like I would get on here and tell everyone about a great new amp I will tell everyone about Jesus Christ. Yes there will come a time when there is one world currency, one world government, and the army's of the world will gather to come against Israel. Jesus Christ himself leads to a army on a white horse which will leave blood to your knees. He will destroy the earth and sin in his time in his way. Gods says My ways are not your ways as my thoughts are not your thoughts. Our human minds are but one grain of sand in the ocean to Gods knowledge
> 
> 
> The rapture will come and all of those saved will be taken away. Would love to see CNN explain it. For those not raptured you can still turn to God but you cannot take the mark of the beast. The is no mercy in hell, the beast has more hate for you then you can imagine. You will killed because of your beliefs but it is your chance to accept Christ.



Do you smoke weed?


----------



## Moose Lewis

_This thread is soooo last Saturday._








Carry on, men!


----------



## Landshark

This thread has taught me a few things:

1) If you believe in God, a diety, Jesus, etc... You're an idiot. You're mindless and you need woke up to those facts.

2) I completely disagree with statement number one.

Why is it that a believer is narrow minded? Have you once opened your mind to the idea that there may be somone out there more powerful then you, smarter then you, who has more control then you, who gives you the right to live and breath regardless of what you say about said diety?

Have you the proof that says without a doubt that a diety does not exist? When even the question of why we do exist rings hollow with no answer, save for those who believe? Let's put away the bull about not having the burden of proof... both sides have there own claims to prove.

What is easier to believe: There is no God and we don't need proof of that? Or there is a God and we are proof of that?

Many here have taken the easy road and said, "I'll believe it when I see it." You're right. Even the Bible will confirm this with "... every knee shall bow and every tounge confess that you are God." So you will believe when you see it... but then it's too late.

If Hell doesn't scare you now, it will when you're there.

Still time to turn around. Hope everyone does.

Peace.


----------



## Jack92CH

I would say a believer is more narrow minded than most because they do not consider possibilities outside of what they've been conditioned to be comfortable with and to accept. They feel that if they are intelligent and reasonable, they _cannot_ be the product of a mechanical and meaningless universe. When you come to this verdict you must be careful, because you may make an unwarranted jump to the conclusion that the intelligent, designing power creating all this is the Biblical God, and further that there IS an intelligent, designing power.

I personally have nothing to prove, I don't believe in anything, I have nothing to hold onto. A negative can't be proven because it has nothing to propose.

You on the other hand, believe in something which is not immediately plausible, is part of a long line of obviously bogus religions and mythologies, and has a history of corruption. If anyone's got anything to prove it would be theists. Humans are born atheists until somebody tells them, at a very young and impressionable age, that they ought to believe in God.

Religion is not a matter of "faith" as many claim in defense of their beliefs. Faith is a state of openness or trust. In other words, a person who is fanatic in matters of religion, and clings to certain ideas about the nature of God and the universe becomes a person who has no faith at all. Instead they are holding tight. The attitude of faith is to let go, and become open to truth, whatever it might turn out to be.


Landshark is really good beer, by the way.


----------



## Australian

big dooley said:


> cheer up people....
> 
> 41



Jesus saying "sorry my bad". That one made me laugh heartily.


----------



## Username2

I learned a couple things too.

1. It is very popular and easy today to laugh at and mock God. Dismiss Christians as some brainwashed moron is also convenient and popular thought now.

2. For many years the same questions about God are asked, there is a narrative for just about any truth God tells us in the bible. 

3. People continue to tell themselves that they are a good person and therefore God would never condemn them. Of course this is an admission that God exists. 

4. A lot of tough guys think hell will actually not be that bad and they can handle it.

5. Our country has lost any moral leadership and Christianity is not only on the decline but we have a many young people that want nothing to do with Christ, their not even open to hearing the message.

6. The decline of our nation is a direct result of people in this country turning their backs on God. No matter who you vote for it will not matter as more and more people in the US allow Satan to control our leaders rather then God. The continued decline is being accelerated as the great generation passes on. The fall of our nation is inevitable unless we as a nation repent. God Bless America says it all.


----------



## Jack92CH

It's because for the most part people are waking up, freeing themselves from dogmatic, mystical nonsense that tells them they are evil for being born. It is the object of organized religion to purposely limit knowledge, discourage curiosity, and sanctify ignorance. More people are realizing this.

There are narratives for things pertaining to the life of man in the Bible because the Bible is a product of the condition of the life of man. There are analogous narratives in Star Wars...is Star Wars really an historical account of a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away? Is it a basis of the standards by which we conduct ourselves? Or is it just a story? I think maybe you're missing something terribly important.



nuke said:


> The decline of our nation is a direct result of people in this country turning their backs on God. No matter who you vote for it will not matter as more and more people in the US allow Satan to control our leaders rather then God. The continued decline is being accelerated as the great generation passes on. The fall of our nation is inevitable unless we as a nation repent. God Bless America says it all.



Would you prefer a theocracy?


----------



## big dooley

Australian said:


> Jesus saying "sorry my bad". That one made me laugh heartily.



god has a sense of humour... otherwise we wouldn't even excist...


----------



## Hollowbody

Jack92CH said:


> I would say a believer is more narrow minded than most because they do not consider possibilities outside of what they've been conditioned to be comfortable with and to accept.



You are starting with a generalization.

How do you know that everyone who believes (in anything) hasn't explored as many concepts as possible?

...I must have missed the interview.




Jack92CH said:


> Humans are born atheists until somebody tells them, at a very young and impressionable age, that they ought to believe in God.



How do you know that humans aren't conditioned or taught to be athiests?

...babies don't talk.


----------



## Adwex

Landshark said:


> ....Have you the proof that says without a doubt that a diety does not exist? When even the question of why we do exist rings hollow with no answer, save for those who believe? Let's put away the bull about not having the burden of proof... both sides have there own claims to prove.
> 
> What is easier to believe: There is no God and we don't need proof of that? Or there is a God and we are proof of that?
> 
> ....



LOL. "put away the bull"? Anyone else see the irony in that?.... Of course it's easier to "believe" there is no god and we don't need proof of that. I'll quote myself from another thread...

"The fundamental "rule" in any debate is, that YOU have the burden to PROVE that something EXISTS...it is IMPOSSIBLE to prove that something DOES NOT EXIST.

This is the classic rule that theists try to avoid when they demand that atheists prove that god does NOT exist."

I've got one for you...prove that the tooth fairy does not exist. PROVE that Santa Claus does not exist. I'm fairly sure you know they don't exist, but how do you prove it? You can't, because you can't prove that something does NOT exist.


----------



## Jack92CH

Hollowbody said:


> You are starting with a generalization.
> 
> How do you know that everyone who believes (in anything) hasn't explored as many concepts as possible?
> 
> How do you know that humans aren't conditioned or taught to be athiests?
> 
> ...babies don't talk.



Whether or not they've explored other concepts is irrelevant. Whether or not they've put their absolute trust in one, based on nothing, is relevant. If anything, I think people who explore the nature of different beliefs are more likely to reject them. 

If you want to teach someone to be an atheist, you teach them nothing at all. It is a LACK of conviction, you cannot implant a lack of belief. If you want to teach someone to be a theist, you have to convince them through spooky scripture and old men in robes that God is real and that they are damaged goods and are in serious need of fixing. Young children become obligated by the guilt they are told they're supposed to have simply for existing. 

Atheism doesn't preach, theism does. 

I was raised Catholic. From a young age I thought it was creepy and weird and stopped caring. If anyone "taught" me to be an atheist it was the church itself with their petty bullshit. Once I got older I started looking into to other religions and their history, applied logic, and came to the conclusion that they're probably all lying.


----------



## Moose Lewis

Adwex said:


> I've got one for you...prove that the tooth fairy does not exist. PROVE that Santa Claus does not exist. I'm fairly sure you know they don't exist, but how do you prove it?



Alright ~ _that's it_... ashes and cinders for you Buck-o! _Ho- ho._








​


----------



## Michael1987xl

Jack92CH said:


> Atheism doesn't preach...



Really? 

I guess you're right; it just attacks people like a loud mouthed, needless, oh-for-the-love-of-everything would you please shut up pain in the fucking ass, all because its just SOOOOOOOOO much fucking smarter, then.

Trust me when I tell you, Atheism preaches plenty, loudly and often. There isn't one atheist on the planet who hasn't preached; it gets them off as much as it does any charlatan preacher on Pray TV; stop pretending that you're all above it, you're making me puke. There isn't any chance on this green Earth that any _one_ of them is going to allow for the possibility that there is any person or being that could possibly be "smarter" than their precious science, which they keep "updating with their new and improved knowledge", by the way, and if preaching keeps anyone from believing that possibility, they'll do it until the cows come the fuck home. The Atheist Power Aquisition Agenda is every bit as "in full swing" as any church's, and that's the truth. You guys can cop to it anytime you like, but I'm way ahead of you.

They don't preach? My ass. Perhaps you haven't seen the anti-religious billboards outside the Lincoln Tunnel? That's not preaching? Who do you think put those up? In case you're wondering, atheists did it.

Have you gone back through this thread and seen the prattling on about how stupid any believer must be because some of you geniuses used your "logic"? What was that supposed to be? Are you people serious? This is some of the dumbest shit I've ever been guilty of sorting through. The minute you start trying to convince some else that you've got it all figured out and they should behave, think and talk just like you or they're stupid, exactly what do you think you're doing? NOT preaching? Talk about calling the kettle black.

But, I digress. 

So what's the real question here? It's OK to mock, tear down, insult and bitch like a spoiled rotten twat as long as you don't preach?

Again; really?

Welcome To: Being Full of Shit 
Population: *YOU GUYS*.


----------



## Michael1987xl

And by the way, for those of you brainiacs in the room who "_only believe things you can scientifically prove_"; while I'm sure you're all very impressed with yourselves, I call a little thing we know as "bullshit". If any one of you would like to take some time and talk to _anyone_ in the Behavioral Sciences (hey, it's even got the _word_ 'science' in it!), you would shit yourselves to run down the list of things each and every one of you believes without a shred of scientific "proof". Trust me, the number of things you _need_, as a person, to_ believe_ without so much as a speck of "proof" just so you'd leave the house in the morning is staggering. 

Some of the children need to be very careful with how they use explosive words like "science" and "proof" when they don't really know what they mean; they could hurt themselves.


----------



## StootMonster

Michael1987xl said:


> Really?
> 
> I guess you're right; it just attacks people like a loud mouthed, needless, oh-for-the-love-of-everything would you please shut up pain in the fucking ass, all because its just SOOOOOOOOO much fucking smarter, then.
> 
> Trust me when I tell you, Atheism preaches plenty, loudly and often. There isn't one atheist on the planet who hasn't preached; it gets them off as much as it does any charlatan preacher on Pray TV; stop pretending that you're all above it, you're making me puke. There isn't any chance on this green Earth that any _one_ of them is going to allow for the possibility that there is any person or being that could possibly be "smarter" then their precious science, which they keep "updating with their new and improved knowledge", by the way, and if preaching keeps anyone from believing that possibility, they'll do it until the cows come the fuck home. The Atheist Power Aquisition Agenda is every bit as "in full swing" as any church's, and that's the truth. You guys can cop to it anytime you like, but I'm way ahead of you.
> 
> They don't preach? My ass. Perhaps you haven't seen the anti-religious billboards outside the Lincoln Tunnel? That's not preaching? Who do you think put those up? In case you're wondering, atheists did it.
> 
> Have you gone back through this thread and seen the prattling on about how stupid any believer must be because some of you geniuses used your "logic"? What was that supposed to be? Are you people serious? This is some of the dumbest shit I've ever been guilty of sorting through. The minute you start trying to convince some else that you've got it all figured out and they should behave think just like you or they're stupid, exactly what do you think you're doing? NOT preaching? Talk about calling the kettle black.
> 
> But, I digress.
> 
> So what's the real question here? It's OK to mock, tear down, insult and bitch like a spoiled rotten twat as long as you don't preach?
> 
> Again; really?
> 
> Welcome To: Being Full of Shit
> Population: *YOU GUYS*.




YES! I love posts like this.


----------



## Jack92CH

Perhaps I was mistaken in saying atheism doesn't preach. My atheism doesn't preach. I don't tell anyone what they should believe, I make points of why I think it's foolish to believe in anything at all. We're exchanging points of view here. I personally don't care if anyone has a problem with what I say.

If anybody here did not want to have these discussions there's nothing stopping them from not viewing the thread.


----------



## Username2

Jack92CH said:


> I don't tell anyone what they should believe, I make points of why I think it's foolish to believe in anything at all.


 
Anytime we answer a question or state a point of view are we not telling someone what they should believe regardless of subject matter? 

Point is when a Christian makes his/her point of view it is called "telling someone what to do OR ramming it down my throat" when a atheist makes his or her point it is called "an intelligent scientific opinion OR majority thought". Political correctness is from Satan, because it is all a lie and meant to deceive. Look how our politicians cleverly select words to paint a picture of something that is opposite from what it really is. 

God wants Christians be be kind and soft spoken, what he doesn't want is for us to sugar coat the message or put our own spin on it, the word is the word. For this we take much abuse in this country and are literally killed or prosecuted for it in over 50% of the world. The abuse out of peoples mouths when the hear the gospel of Jesus Christ comes from Satan as does the persecution.


----------



## Landshark

Jack92CH said:


> Perhaps I was mistaken in saying atheism doesn't preach. My atheism doesn't preach. I don't tell anyone what they should believe, I make points of why I think it's foolish to believe in anything at all. We're exchanging points of view here. I personally don't care if anyone has a problem with what I say.
> 
> If anybody here did not want to have these discussions there's nothing stopping them from not viewing the thread.



How many times have you posted on this thread? Your atheism preaches. How many times have you said the same thing over and over again? Your atheism preaches. How many times have you said, "your logic is flawed..." Your atheism preaches... just like any religion out there... your anti-religion preaches.

Tell me... who taught you your logic?


----------



## RiverRatt

Who decides if something is from Satan or God? I honestly can't see the difference. Somebody should make an iPhone app or hand out programs or something.


----------



## Username2

RiverRatt said:


> Who decides if something is from Satan or God? I honestly can't see the difference. Somebody should make an iPhone app or hand out programs or something.


 
We do. Surely you are old enough to tell the difference between good and evil, truth and lies, love from hate. God gave you clear knowledge to know these two sides so you can decide. 

Satan makes all things from him look beautiful to us, but they are not. He is the architect of all things evil, wrong, and unjust. His job is to make sure you curse and laugh at God and do not pray to him, that your soul is not given to Jesus Christ, that your mind rejects the truth of the bible. He wants you to be without hope, he wants you to feel hate, he want you tired and weak so he can continue to attack you and draw you further from God. God lifts these burdens of the weak and weary. 

We are all Gods children and he loves all of us so very much. Satan's greatest joy is to harm Gods children and to cloud our minds with lies. From where I stand in our great nation today he is winning the battle of souls. Look at our children today, TV, movies, video games and no mention in any of that pop media of God. Killing, our kids are numb to it. Drugs. booze, homosexuality are spoon fed to our kids as normal, anyone saying anything negative about it is a (fill in the blank with your favorite name label here) Much easier to teach in our public schools homosexuality then Gods commandments and truth. Much easier to teach our kids about false creation then quote the truth of what God tells us, pray in school or even mention the word GOD and here comes the Satan (er the ACLU) to attack. 

So many say they are Christians but yet are ashamed to admit it or speak about it or defend it. I hear sometimes on the news that 76% of Americans are Christians, not even close. You will know a true Christian by his love and tolerance for you and his PROUD praise of God. God spits out those Christians who are half ass.


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## RiverRatt

Yes, I know very well the difference between good and evil. I just have a hard time understanding how God can allow the evil to exist. I think that's the biggest contradiction and the one that gives me the most trouble. If God is all-powerful, then he has the power to place his followers in a perfect utopian paradise. Why do we have to jump through so many hoops and resist an evil that theologically shouldn't even exist to prove ourselves worthy of entering this place? How can such a dichotomy as God and Satan exist if one of them is all-powerful? I'm really not preaching or trying to be an ass. If you can explain this to my satisfaction, I'm all ears.


----------



## Australian

Ever think about how life would be if there was only good? I think it would be boring myself. even a football match needs some controversy .


----------



## Username2

> I just have a hard time understanding how God can allow the evil to exist.


 
Satan has domain on this earth since man has sinned, all things evil are of his works. The only reason you have light, fresh water to drink, food to eat, health, and any peace at all is because God offers us mercy in the form of the Holy Spirit while we are on earth. Evil will continue to exist here and grow worse as more people reject God. As more reject God more evil will happen, more disasters, more sickness, less clean water to drink, less food to eat, more killings, ......basically more Satan. We are seeing this now

God sent Jesus here to explain all these things many people ask today including your question, the answers are all in his word. 

Satan's evil on you stops when you repent and accept Christ. He will still tempt and try to confuse you but will have no power over you. Jesus is coming back to this earth one day, if you are here still you will see him. He comes back to destroy Satan, Satan's army and the earth. God will chain Satan and destroy the Earth. 

In heaven, there is no time, no darkness, no sickness no pain, no hatred. It is said that the human mind is not even capable of imagining to beauty and glory of heaven.


----------



## Jack92CH

Landshark said:


> How many times have you posted on this thread? Your atheism preaches. How many times have you said the same thing over and over again? Your atheism preaches. How many times have you said, "your logic is flawed..." Your atheism preaches... just like any religion out there... your anti-religion preaches.
> 
> Tell me... who taught you your logic?



Have I told anyone what to do? Have I told anybody if they don't shape up they're going to burn in hell? I'm posting on this thread because I'm interested and have something to say. I'm not preaching, because I have nothing to sell you. I have nothing that I want you to believe in. I don't care WHAT you believe, I care WHY. So far, nobody has told me.

When you understand why you don't believe in other religions, you'll understand why I don't believe in yours.


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## Roadburn

Jack92CH said:


> -stuff-
> 
> When you understand why you don't believe in other religions, you'll understand why I don't believe in yours.




Too bad I can't give more than just 1+ for this.
But this is something I will remember and use whenever I get into a discussion with religeous people (and I live in an area that is full of religeous people)


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## big dooley

Australian said:


> Ever think about how life would be if there was only good? I think it would be boring myself. even a football match needs some controversy .



controversy in australian football? gimme a break! 
i've watched a match when i was a kid... i've never seen a teamsport like that again... why on earth do they need a referee? everything is allowed!!!


----------



## Hollowbody

Jack92CH said:


> *Whether or not they've explored other concepts is irrelevant.* Whether or not they've put their absolute trust in one, based on nothing, is relevant.



If it is irrelevant then why did you say: "I would say a believer is more narrow minded than most *because they do not consider possibilities *outside of what they've been conditioned to be comfortable with and to accept." 

Either it is relevant or it isin't.



Jack92CH said:


> If you want to teach someone to be an atheist, you teach them nothing at all. It is a LACK of conviction, you cannot implant a lack of *belief*. .



You *believe* there is no god.




Jack92CH said:


> Atheism doesn't preach, theism does.



I see zombies on both sides, I see honest people on both sides as well.



Jack92CH said:


> I was raised Catholic. From a young age I thought it was creepy and weird and stopped caring. If anyone "taught" me to be an atheist it was the church itself with their petty bullshit.



Yeah it is petty, I can't disagree. But what does what a man say have to do with the possibility of an actual god?

Man fucks everything up but how do you know your negative reaction to religious assholes isin't also a result of that. This is what I have been thinking about, why blame a god for what a man has done? Your reaction to bullshit is still conditioning.



Jack92CH said:


> Once I got older I started looking into to other religions and their history, applied logic, and came to the conclusion that they're probably all lying.




Sounds exactly like me but now I am doing some serious soul searching, I will always be searching for truth I think a lot of people are. But all the things I see and know that science can't explain, there has to be a better way. 

I am looking for what will bring me peace.


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## Australian

big dooley said:


> controversy in australian football? gimme a break!
> i've watched a match when i was a kid... i've never seen a teamsport like that again... why on earth do they need a referee? everything is allowed!!!



Yeah but they wear a lot of protection padding though............oh no they dont.


----------



## SmokeyDopey

Whats difficult for extremists or fanatics is to take religion OUT of the equation. You have to be SOMETHING for them. It doesn't make sense if you don't have a religion.

This whole, you BELIEVE, I BELIEVE there is, there isn't, bla bla bla bla...

Typical question "what are you, what religion?" 
"None" 
"What do you mean NONE? So you're an atheist...."

Sometimes it sounds like they're interpreting "Atheism" as another religion, some sort of antichrist religion.
NO!

I don't believe in religion. Why do I have to be labeled as an _atheist_? I'm just nonreligious. Don't have a religion. Just take the who concept out, it never existed. 

I'm just a dude who looks around and is fascinated by the world we live in, and the universe. We will never know everything, we're just humas, we're fucking GERMS in this universe.


----------



## Hollowbody

SmokeyDopey said:


> we're just humas, we're fucking GERMS in this universe.



Really? And when a family member dies (maybe mom or dad) then there is no point in having a funeral, no point in keeping pictures, no need for memories.

Just burn their fucking bodies and be done with them: "ok, next"

Maybe do this _great universe_ a favor and just kill them all now, what's the difference they are just germs, right? 

I mean Fuck them, they were just a GERM. Who gives a shit about the next one, hell, if we are just germs then thank the lucky stars for genocide.

*sarcasm*


----------



## SmokeyDopey

lol well of course we care for those that surround us, but I'm not talking about us humans in our perception how we see ourselves, I'm talking about our place in the universe, I'm talking about a much larger scale. We're not the center of the universe.


----------



## tonyl

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

*Albert Einstein*


----------



## Australian

tonyl said:


> "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
> 
> *Albert Einstein*



Would you trust a miserable sod like him? And he invented the A-Bomb. I wouldnt like to have his karma. yikes!!


----------



## tonyl

Australian said:


> Would you trust a miserable sod like him? And he invented the A-Bomb. I wouldnt like to have his karma. yikes!!



It takes years to build up trust, and only seconds to destroy it.
​


----------



## Username2

One does not have to subscribe to religion or be religious to have a relationship with God. Religion has confused too many people with its inconsistency, protocols, and rituals. Jesus made it pretty easy for us when he died on the cross, repent and accept the blood shed for your sins that Christ offers to you as a free gift. From there search for answers in the bible, pray, and follows Gods plan for your life, You can do all this and be void of religion, I am. 

Isaiah 55:8
_For my thoughts [are] not your thoughts, neither [are] your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts._

A big part that is missing from this converstion is "faith". There are many things I still have yet to fully understand, we have to have faith that what God is doing is all part of his perfect plan for you. What I do understand is God is loving and has wisdom greater then any man and cannot be measured.

My view of the Church is simply this. When two or more are gathered in his name he will be there with you, God want Christians to have relationships with others Christians and help each other, A church is simply a body of people coming together to worship, and learn the truths of Gods perfect plan for your life. Understand that true Christians are still sinners, they difference is that they have been forgiven. Your church could be you and a couple of your buddies down in your Jam room sitting around talking about this and looking for the truth. 

Matthew 18:20
_For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them._


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## SmokeyDopey

Well, clearly he got the idea that humans are germs! lol

Well, he didnt directly INVENT the A-bomb, in fact when he came up with the famous equation he didn't have bombs in mind. 
He did facilitate the build though.


----------



## Jack92CH

Australian said:


> Would you trust a miserable sod like him? And he invented the A-Bomb. I wouldnt like to have his karma. yikes!!



He didn't invent the atom bomb, he discovered the physics to make it possible and the government picked up on it. He was totally against it.


----------



## tonyl

My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind.


----------



## SmokeyDopey

nuke said:


> God want Christians to have relationships with others Christians and help each other...


 
But not with other people?


----------



## Australian

SmokeyDopey said:


> Well, clearly he got the idea that humans are germs! lol
> 
> Well, he didnt directly INVENT the A-bomb, in fact when he came up with the famous equation he didn't have bombs in mind.
> He did facilitate the build though.



You sure he didnt call the President and say "um...I have something you may be interested in".


----------



## Adwex

Australian said:


> Would you trust a miserable sod like him? And he invented the A-Bomb. I wouldnt like to have his karma. yikes!!



He did not "invent" the A-bomb.


----------



## Jack92CH

Australian said:


> You sure he didnt call the President and say "um...I have something you may be interested in".



I don't know how it went down. All I know is he sent urgent messages to the president asking him NOT to use the bombs because he knew how horrible it would be.


----------



## SmokeyDopey

Australian said:


> You sure he didnt call the President and say "um...I have something you may be interested in".


 
Could be, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was the other way around: the government knocking on his door to "ask a few questions".


----------



## Hollowbody

SmokeyDopey said:


> lol well of course we care for those that surround us, but I'm not talking about us humans in our perception how we see ourselves, I'm talking about our place in the universe, I'm talking about a much larger scale. We're not the center of the universe.




I'm also talking about a larger scale.


----------



## Adwex

SmokeyDopey said:


> Well, clearly he got the idea that humans are germs! lol
> 
> Well, he didnt directly INVENT the A-bomb, in fact when he came up with the famous equation he didn't have bombs in mind.
> He did facilitate the build though.



The only reason for any facilitation on his part was because he knew if Hitler got the bomb first, he would've used it to conquer the entire world.

Albert Einstein was not an evil man.


----------



## Australian

Adwex said:


> He did not "invent" the A-bomb.



But, he invented Nuclear Fission, and released the info to Roosevelt. I think thats just as bad as inventing the bomb himself. He knew the consequences. And he knew what Roosevelt wanted it for.


----------



## Adwex

Australian said:


> But, he invented Nuclear Fission, and released the info to Roosevelt. I think thats just as bad as inventing the bomb himself. He knew the consequences. And he knew what Roosevelt wanted it for.



Read my post above yours.

...and he didn't "invent" nuclear fission either, he described the physics behind it.


----------



## SmokeyDopey

Hollowbody said:


> I'm also talking about a larger scale.


 
OK.... Not sure if I follow.

What I mean is the follwing:

Look at your hand. On the palm of your hand there are MILLIONS of bacteria of all sorts. The palm of your hand is like a universe to them. Of course they don't have feelings and memories and history books and photos, but thats what I mean by a larger scale. If there is higher being (not talking about a "creator" of the universe, just something superior to humans), we would be seen as a population of bacteria.

Imagine the solar system as an atom. The sun is the nucleus and the planets are like the electron (even though electrons don't have mass, I know, I know).
Imagine a whole population of different beings living in an electron.

A lifetime for us is a fraction of a second in the universe.

EDIT: (I used the word "diety". Corrected)


----------



## Michael1987xl

SmokeyDopey said:


> I don't believe in religion. Why do I have to be labeled as an _atheist_? I'm just nonreligious. Don't have a religion. Just take the who concept out, it never existed.



And therein lies the problem with this discussion every single time it comes up. Your position on "The Religion Question" doesn't _really_ make you an atheist, but I'll be happy to tell you why the _atheists_ themselves have seen to it that, as a _practical matter_, it does.

The flaws, beliefs (or, as it happens in your case, _dis_-beliefs) in _any_ system which is interpreted, constructed, created and administered by men, be it religious, political, what have you, nor more makes anyone a true believer, atheist or agnostic than it tends to prove, or more to the point, _dis_-prove the existence (or lack thereof) of any thing, person, or even a deity. The existence of something, obviously, cannot be proven by the quality or construct of a "_belief system_"; that, like it or not, is_ literally_ axiomatic.

Regardless of the objective truth in all of that, however, the argument by atheists _against the existence in a deity_ inevitably devolves into their astonishingly myopic view of the various scriptures and their incredibly historically flawed interpretations (Christian and otherwise), a tiresome, ignorant critique of the failed religious systems of belief, their flawed and hopelessly biased and exclusive hierarchies, the conflict and wars they created, yada, yada, yada, and how all those things mixed together serve *to demonstrate* that a deity couldn't possibly exist. (there is a weaker, regularly employed secondary argument about how "they can't see it so blah blah blah", but the true "elite" artisans of the atheist agenda know to stay away from that one, so we'll forgo its analysis here just now). If you don't believe me, just go back through this thread; it is, frankly, rife with that idiotic reasoning masquerading with what some of you (who have no idea what the word actually means) call "logic". The truth, gentleman, is that those things have nothing to do with each other and that there is an intellectual chasm in all of that "reasoning" so vast that if there is actually a God, omniscient and omnipotent, even_ He_ couldn't bridge it.

If that "reasoning" held any water at all, i.e.,_ if the flaws in a *system* actually accounted exclusively for the "proof" that something palpable actually existed_, believe me when I tell you it would take me all of about 15 minutes to run down the flaws in our political belief system, the Constitution upon which it is based and the 200+ years of its interpretations, the hierarchy under which it functions and the illusion of "true Democracy" whereby I present a "logical process" to prove Barack Obama doesn't really exist, _notwithstanding the fact_ that I _can_ actually see him. Clearly, that is something I think we can all agree is what, in intellectual circles, is referred to as "_Fucking Stupidity_".

Nonetheless, that is precisely the kind of "logic" (I really love it when some people use that word; it's genuinely hilarious, seriously) that when you push the conversation hard and long enough and get people talking fast enough that their emotions kick in and you can get them to forget the careful, deliberate and false camouflage of their "intellectual construct", they will fall back upon *every...single...time*. They will also, rather gleefully, tell you how smart they are for thinking that way and how stupid you are for not thinking that way. It's staggering when you actually break it down, but again, you can flip back through this thread and see it repeatedly.

In short, because that "logic" is pushed so hard, not in the _defense_ of atheism but, rather, in its _advancement_ (regardless of what those who don't think they're preaching say to the contrary) that _that_ reasoning inevitably _dominates the conversation_ and, you, unfortunately, have been labeled as an _atheist_, whether you are or whether you aren't. In the end, the choice you're offered is, unfortunately, stripped down to its illogical and unreasonable alternatives: _Do you wish to be damned or to be labeled as stupid?_ The problem which causes this is that you are caught between two warring factions, both hopelessly and irretrievably blinded by their own self-indulgent, self-aggrandizing and anachronistic agendas; one which is often preachy, judgmental, arrogant and pushy in its theological beliefs but is also _consistently_ attacked and mocked for their stupidity, superstition and neanderthal beliefs and therefore put into the unenviable position of defending itself. The second is utterly convinced of its intellectual superiority and use of a process they call "logic", which is often preachy, judgmental, arrogant and pushy itself, while the truth of the matter is that it regularly bears no resemblance to actual "logic". While they say they have nothing to sell, it instead prompts them to carry on and on in defense of and actually selling (to themselves, perhaps) their own said intellectual superiority wherein either *you* are with them, or you are, again, a Neanderthal. 

Are "both sides" guilty in this little contest of wills? You betcha. The question isn't "who's preaching, who's selling, who's defending?"; they all are and anybody who says different is full of shit; one is protecting their heartfelt belief, the other their self-convinced intellectual superiority, so everybody's got a substantial dog in the fight. In the interest of full disclosure, it's important to acknowledge that _neither side_ has nearly the understanding it claims to of its own texts nor those of the other side, regardless of whether those texts are scripture or thesis, handed down to them personally from God himself when no one else was looking* or *penned by a lot of the names people like to throw around to show how brilliant they are because they can write "Einstein" or "Hawking", but they don't care; they're smarmy, they're more evolved and they're smarter, regardless. In the end, then, the question, from where I sit anyway, instead, is "_Who is on the *mockery, degradation and oppression offensive* and, as modern history shows (being that facts are stubborn things) has come to dominate the mean-spirited architecture of the debate only to cry, complain bitch and moan like fingered prom queen when somebody smacks 'em back?_"

Good luck with that one, guys.


----------



## Username2

Hollowbody said:


> Really? And when a family member dies (maybe mom or dad) then there is no point in having a funeral, no point in keeping pictures, no need for memories.
> 
> Just burn their fucking bodies and be done with them: "ok, next"
> 
> Maybe do this _great universe_ a favor and just kill them all now, what's the difference they are just germs, right?
> 
> I mean Fuck them, they were just a GERM. Who gives a shit about the next one, hell, if we are just germs then thank the lucky stars for genocide.
> 
> *sarcasm*


 
Our bodies are simply dust and are used for our time here on Earth. Your soul however lives forever. We are not "germs" we have a soul. When you enter into heaven you are giving a new body, one that will endure for eternity, one that can never become sick, and one that cannot sin for there is no sin in heaven.


----------



## Australian

Adwex said:


> ...and he didn't "invent" nuclear fission either, he described the physics behind it.



Yep, I was just generally saying that he invented it. But I'm pretty sure he told Roosevelt how to implement the theory of it . I've read it in other books, not on the internet. And just remembered that he had a big part in N Fission being realized.

I didnt say that Einstein was bad, but maybe a little/alot irresponsible.


----------



## Username2

SmokeyDopey said:


> But not with other people?


 
Of course not. Look how many people freaked out with Jesus. He searched out thieves, prostitutes, lepers, the dregs of the dregs in that day. Many did not understand this. 

You go where the sinners are, you build those relationships and help those people.


----------



## tonyl

[FONT=georgia, bookman old style, palatino linotype, book antiqua, palatino, trebuchet ms, helvetica, garamond, sans-serif, arial, verdana, avante garde, century gothic, comic sans ms, times, times new roman, serif]There's something in every atheist, itching to believe, and something in every believer, itching to doubt.

15 pages of arguments. Shall we put an end please 





[/FONT]


----------



## SmokeyDopey

Makes sense. 
Its pretty much the same thing to try to prove how a deity doesn't or does exist.

I don't bother in finding ways to try to prove the NON-existance of a deity. All I know is we'll never know where the hell we came from! Humans aren't capable of comprehending things.

Like trying to explain a math equation to a germ (again with the germs ). I don't think they will EVER comprehend something like that. Just like that, there are things that we won't comprehend and we wont come even CLOSE to comprehending.

This is one of those things. I don't even bother cuz I'll end up getting an aneurysm


----------



## Hollowbody

tonyl said:


> 15 pages of arguments. Shall we put an end please



No. and it hasn't all been arguement.


----------



## tonyl

hollowbody said:


> no. And it hasn't all been arguement.



/facepalm


----------



## Hollowbody

SmokeyDopey said:


> *I'm just a dude who looks around and is fascinated by the world we live in*, and the universe. We will never know everything, we're just humas, we're fucking GERMS in this universe.






SmokeyDopey said:


> lol well of course we care for those that surround us, but *I'm not talking about us humans in our perception how we see ourselves*, I'm talking about our place in the universe, I'm talking about a much larger scale. We're not the center of the universe.




...and both of these quotes are in context.


----------



## Adwex

Australian said:


> Yep, I was just generally saying that he invented it. But I'm pretty sure he told Roosevelt how to implement the theory of it . I've read it in other books, not on the internet. And just remembered that he had a big part in N Fission being realized.
> 
> I didnt say that Einstein was bad, but maybe a little/alot irresponsible.



Yes, but for very good reason. He felt (rightly so) that the United States had to get "the bomb" before Hitler did.


----------



## SmokeyDopey

nuke said:


> Of course not. Look how many people freaked out with Jesus. He searched out thieves, prostitutes, lepers, the dregs of the dregs in that day. Many did not understand this.
> 
> You go where the sinners are, you build those relationships and help those people.


 
OH! Ok.. Just checking!


----------



## Australian

There are alot of things I know, and alot of things that I dont know. 
Thats all I can admit to.

Should I leave now?  ok


----------



## Hollowbody

Australian said:


> Would you trust a miserable sod like him? And he invented the A-Bomb. I wouldnt like to have his karma. yikes!!






Australian said:


> Yep, I was just generally saying that he invented it. But I'm pretty sure he told Roosevelt how to implement the theory of it . I've read it in other books, not on the internet. And just remembered that he had a big part in N Fission being realized.
> 
> I didnt say that Einstein was bad, but maybe a little/alot irresponsible.



ok


----------



## SmokeyDopey

Hollowbody said:


> ...and both of these quotes are in context.


----------



## Hollowbody

SmokeyDopey said:


>



Anyone who reads it can see they are both a response to the same line of reasoning.

Prove that they aren't.


----------



## SmokeyDopey

Um... I don't get it.
Whats your point?


----------



## SmokeyDopey

Or I'm too stoned or you're speaking in riddles.


----------



## Hollowbody

SmokeyDopey said:


> Um... I don't get it.
> Whats your point?



Do I have to reiterate? Ok.

You say it's not about our own perception but your premise is about your own perception, you are working with circular reasoning.


----------



## Hollowbody

SmokeyDopey said:


> Or I'm too stoned or you're speaking in riddles.



I love it. This, instead of proof.

Saw it coming, and I guess you are out of logical responses. This is an indication that you realize that you have contradicted yourself.


----------



## SmokeyDopey

Oh, Ok I see what you mean.

I am human, I would mourn if a family member died. 
As a HUMAN, I know there are things we can't understand (INCLUDING MYSELF) and we won't understand.

We sometmes don't see the bigger picture (INCLUDING MYSELF), speaking not only in the city we each live in, not even the PLANET we live in.
Somtimes when I'm in financial trouble I get all worried and think I'm in deep shit, but there are more important things. 
Sometimes I get sucked in the little world I live in, but when I get the chance to stop and think of everything thats surrounds us, any little trouble I had seems stupid and I feel foolish


----------



## Hollowbody

YES!! Thank you.


----------



## Michael1987xl

SmokeyDopey said:


> ...As a HUMAN, I know there are things we can't understand (INCLUDING MYSELF) and we won't understand...



Oh come on! Where's the fun in admitting that?

Holy shit, you spread that around and people are stop referring to Einstein, Hawking, Darwin, Newton and Sagan even when they don't have the foggiest idea of what those guys are talking about!

Look, laughs is laughs, but you gotta reign it in, mister!


----------



## SmokeyDopey

lol dude, are you just messing with my head??? 
I don't even know what the point of that discussion was! I basically summed up what I was trying to say in 1 post.


----------



## Hollowbody

SmokeyDopey said:


> Sometimes I get sucked in the little world I live in, but when I get the chance to stop and think of everything thats surrounds us, any little trouble I had seems stupid and I feel foolish



I think all of this awareness is what makes us different than much of the world. I also think it makes us responsible to take care of our natural microcosm and let the rest of the universe and things we can't control, well ...do what it does.



*common ground*


----------



## Jack92CH

We don't see the bigger picture because we usually forget to include ourselves. We can only go on our perceptions, which are lousy. People think we were put into this universe and that there's something they need to get out of it, as if they were strangers. We've confused life beyond any hope.


----------



## SmokeyDopey

Thats what I was trying to explain about the whole soap thing. 
The reason the gas station was closed was because of the whole incident before mentioned.

Jeez, is it THAT difficult?


----------



## scat7s

Michael1987xl said:


> And by the way, for those of you brainiacs in the room who "_only believe things you can scientifically prove_"; while I'm sure you're all very impressed with yourselves, I call a little thing we know as "bullshit". If any one of you would like to take some time and talk to _anyone_ in the Behavioral Sciences (hey, it's even got the _word_ 'science' in it!), you would shit yourselves to run down the list of things each and every one of you believes without a shred of scientific "proof". Trust me, the number of things you _need_, as a person, to_ believe_ without so much as a speck of "proof" just so you'd leave the house in the morning is staggering.



nailed it


----------



## Georgiatec

I believe the ego of man invented god because we couldn't believe how brilliant we are when compared to everything else.


----------



## diesect20022000

Off with this threads head!


----------



## Jack92CH

Georgiatec said:


> I believe the ego of man invented god because we couldn't believe how brilliant we are when compared to everything else.



How brilliant we THINK we are, with our over-inflated selves. I agree though.


----------



## Australian

Scientist A: God didn't show up on my "GodoMeter".

Scientist B: Then he doesnt exist.

Scientist A: maybe not.

Scientist B: btw did you finish that thesis on "carbon and the future" for Al Gore yet?................

Scientist A: no, but I'll get on to it right after I've written up this report for Atheist Enterprises.

Carnada: how long does it take for hair to grow back?

Scientist B: about 2 months.

Carnada: cool, want to hear my Godly tone?


----------



## Papus

big dooley said:


> controversy in australian football? gimme a break!
> i've watched a match when i was a kid... i've never seen a teamsport like that again... why on earth do they need a referee? everything is allowed!!!



Australian Rules Football has its origins in Rugby and an Indigenous game in which the playing field was MILES long, games took DAYS and people were often KILLED in the game


----------



## Papus

I'm astonished that our global society is still beholden to the scarytales and mentally ill ravings of primitive goatherders, drunks and charlatans...

Clarke said "any sufficiently advanced civilisation will appear as gods to a less advanced one".
If we don't allow religion to cause our own self-destruction in the next 200 years then we stand a good chance of evolving on the path to achieving Clarke's statement.
If future humans appeared to us now, perhaps to the point where they have disembodied themselves and exist as some other form, then I dare say a lot of people would revere or fear them as deities.
If we are to survive as a cosmic inhabitant it is inevitable that we 
a) get off this planet and colonize others
b) find another solar system before the sun goes nova
c) transform our consciousness into a form which can traverse the universe at virtually infinite speed - even into a form which can survive the "big shrink" or the "great cooling" when the universe either implodes into a new big bang or fizzles out into a cold dead state


----------



## Jack92CH

Papus said:


> I'm astonished that our global society is still beholden to the scarytales and mentally ill ravings of primitive goatherders, drunks and charlatans...
> 
> Clarke said "any sufficiently advanced civilisation will appear as gods to a less advanced one".
> If we don't allow religion to cause our own self-destruction in the next 200 years then we stand a good chance of evolving on the path to achieving Clarke's statement.
> If future humans appeared to us now, perhaps to the point where they have disembodied themselves and exist as some other form, then I dare say a lot of people would revere or fear them as deities.
> If we are to survive as a cosmic inhabitant it is inevitable that we
> a) get off this planet and colonize others
> b) find another solar system before the sun goes nova
> c) transform our consciousness into a form which can traverse the universe at virtually infinite speed - even into a form which can survive the "big shrink" or the "great cooling" when the universe either implodes into a new big bang or fizzles out into a cold dead state




Scenario "c" is being dead.


----------



## Username2

Many witnessed the death and crucifixion of Jesus Christ, it took him hours to die what many say is the worse way anyone can die. Literally hundreds of people physically seen Jesus again 3 days after his death and touched him and talked to him. Many more people witnessed him ascend into heaven. 

So after that the twelve disciples of Jesus Christ went on to preach to all people and nations the message of Jesus. Each one of them dies a horrible death because they would not renounced their faith in him. Here is what happened to each of them.

_Martyrdom is the suffering/sentencing of death on account of adherence to a cause and faith_ 

1. Matthew - Suffered Martyrdom in Ethiopia, he was killed by a sword.

2. Mark - Died in Alexandria Egypt after being dragged by horses through the streets until he was dead.

3. Luke - Was hanged in Greece as a result of his preaching to the lost.

4. John - Faced martyrdom when he was boiled in huge basin of boiling oil during a wave of persecution in Rome; however, he was miraculously delivered from death. John was then sentenced to the mines on the prison island of Patmos. There he wrote his prophetic Book of Revelation on Patmos . The apostle John was later freed and returned to serve as Bishop of Edessa in modern Turkey. He died as an old man, the only apostle to die peacefully.

5. Peter - He was crucified upside down on an x-shaped cross. It was because he told his tormentors that he felt unworthy to die in the same way that Jesus Christ had died.

6. James - Just The leader of the church in Jerusalem, was thrown over a hundred feet down from the southeast pinnacle of the Temple when he refused to deny his faith in Christ. When they discovered that he survived the fall, his enemies beat James to death with a fuller's club. * This was the same pinnacle where Satan had taken Jesus during the Temptation.

7. James the Great - Son of Zebedee, was a fisherman by trade when Jesus called him to a lifetime of ministry. As a strong leader of the church, James was ultimately beheaded at Jerusalem. The Roman officer who guarded James watched amazed as James defended his faith at his trial. Later, that same officer walked beside James to the place of execution and overcome by conviction, he declared his new faith to the judge and knelt beside James to accept beheading as a Christian.

8. Bartholomew - Also known as Nathaniel, was a missionary to Asia. He witnessed for our Lord in present day Turkey Bartholomew was martyred for his preaching in Armenia where he was flayed to death by a whip.

9. Andrew - Was crucified on an x-shaped cross in Patras Greece. After being whipped severely by seven soldiers they tied his body to the cross with cords to prolong his agony. His followers reported that, when he was led toward the cross, Andrew saluted it in these words: 'I have long desired and expected this happy hour. The cross has been consecrated by the body of Christ hanging on it.' He continued to preach to his tormentors for two days until he expired.

10. Thomas - Was stabbed with a spear in India during one of his missionary trips to establish the church in the sub-continent

11. Jude - Was killed with arrows when he refused to deny his faith in Christ.

12. Matthias - The apostle chosen to replace the traitor Judas Iscariot, for his faith he was stoned and then beheaded.

13. Paul - Was tortured and then beheaded by the evil Emperor Nero at Rome in A.D. 67. Paul endured a lengthy imprisonment, which allowed him to write his many epistles to the churches he had formed throughout the Roman Empire. These letters, which taught many of the foundational doctrines of Christianity, form a large portion of the New Testament.

14. Judas - Matthew 27:5 says that Judas threw down the silver in the Temple and went and hanged himself. The priests took the blood money and bought the potter's field, which they called the field of blood

It is not so important how the disciples die. What is important here is the fact that they were all willing to die for their faith. If Jesus had not been resurrected, the disciples all would have known but yet all of then saw and spoke to Jesus after his death. No one will die for something he knows is a lie. The fact that all of the apostles were willing to die horrible deaths, refusing to renounce their faith in Christ - is tremendous evidence that they had truly witnessed the resurrection of Jesus Christ.


----------



## Landshark

Jack92CH said:


> Have I told anyone what to do? Have I told anybody if they don't shape up they're going to burn in hell? I'm posting on this thread because I'm interested and have something to say. I'm not preaching, because I have nothing to sell you. I have nothing that I want you to believe in. I don't care WHAT you believe, I care WHY. So far, nobody has told me.
> 
> When you understand why you don't believe in other religions, you'll understand why I don't believe in yours.



The why is simple. Because I've stepped out in faith (you seem to have no idea what faith truly is) a time or two, and watched God do all the hard work. It wasn't difficult and there's no strings attached because I'm already doing what He wants me to do.

Woah woah woah... so now I have something to sell you because I believe in God? God cannot be baught. Salvation cannot be baught. What did you actually study when you say you looked into other religions?

Again, Who taught you your logic? You never answered. Try not to sidestep the actual question this time.


----------



## Landshark

nuke said:


> Many witnessed the death and crucifixion of Jesus Christ, it took him hours to die what many say is the worse way anyone can die. Literally hundreds of people physically seen Jesus again 3 days after his death and touched him and talked to him. Many more people witnessed him ascend into heaven.
> 
> So after that the twelve disciples of Jesus Christ went on to preach to all people and nations the message of Jesus. Each one of them dies a horrible death because they would not renounced their faith in him. Here is what happened to each of them.
> 
> _Martyrdom is the suffering/sentencing of death on account of adherence to a cause and faith_
> 
> 1. Matthew - Suffered Martyrdom in Ethiopia, he was killed by a sword.
> 
> 2. Mark - Died in Alexandria Egypt after being dragged by horses through the streets until he was dead.
> 
> 3. Luke - Was hanged in Greece as a result of his preaching to the lost.
> 
> 4. John - Faced martyrdom when he was boiled in huge basin of boiling oil during a wave of persecution in Rome; however, he was miraculously delivered from death. John was then sentenced to the mines on the prison island of Patmos. There he wrote his prophetic Book of Revelation on Patmos . The apostle John was later freed and returned to serve as Bishop of Edessa in modern Turkey. He died as an old man, the only apostle to die peacefully.
> 
> 5. Peter - He was crucified upside down on an x-shaped cross. It was because he told his tormentors that he felt unworthy to die in the same way that Jesus Christ had died.
> 
> 6. James - Just The leader of the church in Jerusalem, was thrown over a hundred feet down from the southeast pinnacle of the Temple when he refused to deny his faith in Christ. When they discovered that he survived the fall, his enemies beat James to death with a fuller's club. * This was the same pinnacle where Satan had taken Jesus during the Temptation.
> 
> 7. James the Great - Son of Zebedee, was a fisherman by trade when Jesus called him to a lifetime of ministry. As a strong leader of the church, James was ultimately beheaded at Jerusalem. The Roman officer who guarded James watched amazed as James defended his faith at his trial. Later, that same officer walked beside James to the place of execution and overcome by conviction, he declared his new faith to the judge and knelt beside James to accept beheading as a Christian.
> 
> 8. Bartholomew - Also known as Nathaniel, was a missionary to Asia. He witnessed for our Lord in present day Turkey Bartholomew was martyred for his preaching in Armenia where he was flayed to death by a whip.
> 
> 9. Andrew - Was crucified on an x-shaped cross in Patras Greece. After being whipped severely by seven soldiers they tied his body to the cross with cords to prolong his agony. His followers reported that, when he was led toward the cross, Andrew saluted it in these words: 'I have long desired and expected this happy hour. The cross has been consecrated by the body of Christ hanging on it.' He continued to preach to his tormentors for two days until he expired.
> 
> 10. Thomas - Was stabbed with a spear in India during one of his missionary trips to establish the church in the sub-continent
> 
> 11. Jude - Was killed with arrows when he refused to deny his faith in Christ.
> 
> 12. Matthias - The apostle chosen to replace the traitor Judas Iscariot, for his faith he was stoned and then beheaded.
> 
> 13. Paul - Was tortured and then beheaded by the evil Emperor Nero at Rome in A.D. 67. Paul endured a lengthy imprisonment, which allowed him to write his many epistles to the churches he had formed throughout the Roman Empire. These letters, which taught many of the foundational doctrines of Christianity, form a large portion of the New Testament.
> 
> 14. Judas - Matthew 27:5 says that Judas threw down the silver in the Temple and went and hanged himself. The priests took the blood money and bought the potter's field, which they called the field of blood
> 
> It is not so important how the disciples die. What is important here is the fact that they were all willing to die for their faith. If Jesus had not been resurrected, the disciples all would have known but yet all of then saw and spoke to Jesus after his death. No one will die for something he knows is a lie. The fact that all of the apostles were willing to die horrible deaths, refusing to renounce their faith in Christ - is tremendous evidence that they had truly witnessed the resurrection of Jesus Christ.



OK Nuke... completely on your side here but there needs to be some clarification.

Mark was not one of the 12 disciples of Christ, but a follower of Paul. His given name is John Mark and he was the Gospel writer of Mark.

Luke was a physician and traveled with Paul to gather information to write the book of the Gospel of Luke. Also not a disciple of Christ but a follower of Paul.

The author of the Gospel of John was written by John the Baptist... Not named one of the 12, but was also slain by the sword for the cause of Christ by King Herod.

Even though these people were not of the 12 Disciples of Jesus, their deaths still have a lot of meaning... well except Judas, who rejected salvation. I don't believe for one second that he will be in heaven.


----------



## Landshark

Michael1987xl said:


> And therein lies the problem with this discussion every single time it comes up. Your position on "The Religion Question" doesn't _really_ make you an atheist, but I'll be happy to tell you why the _atheists_ themselves have seen to it that, as a _practical matter_, it does.
> 
> The flaws, beliefs (or, as it happens in your case, _dis_-beliefs) in _any_ system which is interpreted, constructed, created and administered by men, be it religious, political, what have you, nor more makes anyone a true believer, atheist or agnostic than it tends to prove, or more to the point, _dis_-prove the existence (or lack thereof) of any thing, person, or even a deity. The existence of something, obviously, cannot be proven by the quality or construct of a "_belief system_"; that, like it or not, is_ literally_ axiomatic.
> 
> Regardless of the objective truth in all of that, however, the argument by atheists _against the existence in a deity_ inevitably devolves into their astonishingly myopic view of the various scriptures and their incredibly historically flawed interpretations (Christian and otherwise), a tiresome, ignorant critique of the failed religious systems of belief, their flawed and hopelessly biased and exclusive hierarchies, the conflict and wars they created, yada, yada, yada, and how all those things mixed together serve *to demonstrate* that a deity couldn't possibly exist. (there is a weaker, regularly employed secondary argument about how "they can't see it so blah blah blah", but the true "elite" artisans of the atheist agenda know to stay away from that one, so we'll forgo its analysis here just now). If you don't believe me, just go back through this thread; it is, frankly, rife with that idiotic reasoning masquerading with what some of you (who have no idea what the word actually means) call "logic". The truth, gentleman, is that those things have nothing to do with each other and that there is an intellectual chasm in all of that "reasoning" so vast that if there is actually a God, omniscient and omnipotent, even_ He_ couldn't bridge it.
> 
> If that "reasoning" held any water at all, i.e.,_ if the flaws in a *system* actually accounted exclusively for the "proof" that something palpable actually existed_, believe me when I tell you it would take me all of about 15 minutes to run down the flaws in our political belief system, the Constitution upon which it is based and the 200+ years of its interpretations, the hierarchy under which it functions and the illusion of "true Democracy" whereby I present a "logical process" to prove Barack Obama doesn't really exist, _notwithstanding the fact_ that I _can_ actually see him. Clearly, that is something I think we can all agree is what, in intellectual circles, is referred to as "_Fucking Stupidity_".
> 
> Nonetheless, that is precisely the kind of "logic" (I really love it when some people use that word; it's genuinely hilarious, seriously) that when you push the conversation hard and long enough and get people talking fast enough that their emotions kick in and you can get them to forget the careful, deliberate and false camouflage of their "intellectual construct", they will fall back upon *every...single...time*. They will also, rather gleefully, tell you how smart they are for thinking that way and how stupid you are for not thinking that way. It's staggering when you actually break it down, but again, you can flip back through this thread and see it repeatedly.
> 
> In short, because that "logic" is pushed so hard, not in the _defense_ of atheism but, rather, in its _advancement_ (regardless of what those who don't think they're preaching say to the contrary) that _that_ reasoning inevitably _dominates the conversation_ and, you, unfortunately, have been labeled as an _atheist_, whether you are or whether you aren't. In the end, the choice you're offered is, unfortunately, stripped down to its illogical and unreasonable alternatives: _Do you wish to be damned or to be labeled as stupid?_ The problem which causes this is that you are caught between two warring factions, both hopelessly and irretrievably blinded by their own self-indulgent, self-aggrandizing and anachronistic agendas; one which is often preachy, judgmental, arrogant and pushy in its theological beliefs but is also _consistently_ attacked and mocked for their stupidity, superstition and neanderthal beliefs and therefore put into the unenviable position of defending itself. The second is utterly convinced of its intellectual superiority and use of a process they call "logic", which is often preachy, judgmental, arrogant and pushy itself, while the truth of the matter is that it regularly bears no resemblance to actual "logic". While they say they have nothing to sell, it instead prompts them to carry on and on in defense of and actually selling (to themselves, perhaps) their own said intellectual superiority wherein either *you* are with them, or you are, again, a Neanderthal.
> 
> Are "both sides" guilty in this little contest of wills? You betcha. The question isn't "who's preaching, who's selling, who's defending?"; they all are and anybody who says different is full of shit; one is protecting their heartfelt belief, the other their self-convinced intellectual superiority, so everybody's got a substantial dog in the fight. In the interest of full disclosure, it's important to acknowledge that _neither side_ has nearly the understanding it claims to of its own texts nor those of the other side, regardless of whether those texts are scripture or thesis, handed down to them personally from God himself when no one else was looking* or *penned by a lot of the names people like to throw around to show how brilliant they are because they can write "Einstein" or "Hawking", but they don't care; they're smarmy, they're more evolved and they're smarter, regardless. In the end, then, the question, from where I sit anyway, instead, is "_Who is on the *mockery, degradation and oppression offensive* and, as modern history shows (being that facts are stubborn things) has come to dominate the mean-spirited architecture of the debate only to cry, complain bitch and moan like fingered prom queen when somebody smacks 'em back?_"
> 
> Good luck with that one, guys.



I wonder how many people actually understood what they just read...

All I know is, I dislike when some might try to make it look as if I am uneducated or that I don't have the same intellectual capacity as them. My Mother and Father did well to disclose much common sense to me in my youth, and I had the highest IQ in my graduating high school class. I'm not stupid, I just believe in something.

By the way. I think I understand what Michael means by "Logic" being misused here. Need I explain Pascal's wager?


----------



## Hollowbody

Well, I could believe in God, or maybe this:




Papus said:


> ...If future humans appeared to us now, perhaps to the point where they have disembodied themselves and exist as some other form, then I dare say a lot of people would revere or fear them as deities.
> If we are to survive as a cosmic inhabitant it is inevitable that we
> a) get off this planet and colonize others
> b) find another solar system before the sun goes nova
> c) transform our consciousness into a form which can traverse the universe at virtually infinite speed - even into a form which can survive the "big shrink" or the "great cooling" when the universe either implodes into a new big bang or fizzles out into a cold dead state




Ha ha WTF dude, you have totally crossed over. Take another look at what you wrote and welcome to sounding like one of the biggest religious freaks I have ever heard.

You might want to just go back to suggesting a book burning, even that would sound more rational than this bullshit. Kinda like Hitler and Stalin, again.

Man, I hate to ridicule so harshly but ...holycrap.

And where are all the "logical scientists"? Did they read this? Shouldn't they be giving you as much trouble as they do the christians?

...but no they don't. hmm.


----------



## Jack92CH

Landshark said:


> The why is simple. Because I've stepped out in faith (you seem to have no idea what faith truly is) a time or two, and watched God do all the hard work. It wasn't difficult and there's no strings attached because I'm already doing what He wants me to do.
> 
> Woah woah woah... so now I have something to sell you because I believe in God? God cannot be baught. Salvation cannot be baught. What did you actually study when you say you looked into other religions?
> 
> Again, Who taught you your logic? You never answered. Try not to sidestep the actual question this time.



You specifically aren't selling anything, others of religious fervor might try to. I would argue that the idea of God is something that is bought into. You've obviously been convinced in some way that believing what you believe is rightly founded. I hate to bring up the "evidence" argument, but until there is evidence that what you believe is actually true, there is nothing to go on. Except the same opinions of other people whose ideas you bought. I also to a degree have bought into something, but I feel it is more personal and open to judgement, criticism and change. What I think about these things changes literally every week. I'm not stuck anywhere.

When I studied other religions I looked into the basics of their beliefs and their history. I'm no historian or scholar, but I know enough to have an idea about them.

Who taught me my logic I think is a very vague question. It would be best to say everyone taught me my logic, whether directly or indirectly in some way. I grew up in a primarily Christian culture, maybe it was them?


----------



## Hollowbody

What is the difference between saying you are more objective than certain people and saying that you are smarter than someone?

How can you possibly know what each person has been through and discovered for themselves, and also what kind of bogus teaching they have had and what they have gone through to sort out all the mess?

Just because someone doesn't agree with you does not mean they are less objective. Not all people who are religious or believe in a god are a certain way or even came about their belief the same way.




Jack92CH said:


> Who taught me my logic I think is a very vague question. It would be best to say everyone taught me my logic, whether directly or indirectly in some way. I grew up in a primarily Christian culture, maybe it was them?



This sounds like me. I think my difference is I don't see all people who believe in something as the exact same so I can put them in a box and shelve it.


----------



## Jack92CH

Hollowbody said:


> What is the difference between saying you are more objective than certain people and saying that you are smarter than someone?
> 
> How can you possibly know what each person has been through and discovered for themselves, and also what kind of bogus teaching they have had and what they have gone through to sort out all the mess?
> 
> Just because someone doesn't agree with you does not mean they are less objective. Not all people who are religious or believe in a god are a certain way or even came about their belief the same way.



Objectivity and intelligence are two different things, but I see what you're getting at. I think it foolish to subscribe to a belief for reasons that do not make themselves clear and that is my opinion on the matter. I do not condemn people's freedom to believe what they wish, I wonder about the reasons why they have come to believe what they do. Some claim it is faith, others claim to have personally experienced God. I think both are superficial.


If religion brings you comfort that's all well and good. I just don't see any credibility behind it.

EDIT: I'll be out camping this weekend so if I don't say or answer something it's not because I'm being an ass, I'll be out in the middle of the woods.


----------



## Hollowbody

Jack92CH said:


> Objectivity and intelligence are two different things, but I see what you're getting at. I think it foolish to subscribe to a belief for reasons that do not make themselves clear and that is my opinion on the matter. I do not condemn people's freedom to believe what they wish, I wonder about the reasons why they have come to believe what they do. Some claim it is faith, others claim to have personally experienced God. I think both are superficial.
> 
> 
> If religion brings you comfort that's all well and good. I just don't see any credibility behind it.
> 
> EDIT: I'll be out camping this weekend so if I don't say or answer something it's not because I'm being an ass, I'll be out in the middle of the woods.




Very cool.

Watch out for the bears.


----------



## Papus

Hollowbody said:


> Well, I could believe in God, or maybe this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ha ha WTF dude, you have totally crossed over. Take another look at what you wrote and welcome to sounding like one of the biggest religious freaks I have ever heard.
> 
> You might want to just go back to suggesting a book burning, even that would sound more rational than this bullshit. Kinda like Hitler and Stalin, again.
> 
> Man, I hate to ridicule so harshly but ...holycrap.
> 
> And where are all the "logical scientists"? Did they read this? Shouldn't they be giving you as much trouble as they do the christians?
> 
> ...but no they don't. hmm.





Hollowbody said:


> Well, I could believe in God, or maybe this:
> 
> 
> You have utterly failed to comprehend my main point:
> Given sufficient time, our species will evolve to the point of actually appearing to be gods to present-day humans.
> The fact that you say I appear to be religious indicates that if future humans did appear to us today you would be at the front of the queue to hail them as gods!
> QED
> The fact remains: either we move out into the universe and evolve ways to circumvent the inevitable demise of the universe or we will disappear with it.
> It's a matter of simple survival.
> Modern humans have only existed for between 100,000 to 1,000,000 years depending on where you draw the defining line in the sand.
> It stands to reason that we should be able to liberate ourselves from this planet in the next 1,000 years, and find a new Solar System in the next 1,000,000 years - well before the sun's estimated 6 billion year lifespan expires.
> I've no doubt if we arrived on some planet with proto-humans they would view us as gods descended from the heavens.
> I have no problem making the leap in my mind.
> 100 years ago man was not supposed to be able to fly like the birds.
> There is more computing power in my phone than the computers which landed men on the moon.
> I have no issue extrapolating future possibilities from present technological realities.
> I do have an issue accepting primitive scarytales and anthropomorphic gods as the basis for knowing the future course for our species.
> And that, my friend, has nothing to do with religion.


----------



## Landshark

Jack92CH said:


> Scenario "c" is being dead.



I actually completely agree with you there.


----------



## Landshark

Jack92CH said:


> If religion brings you comfort that's all well and good. I just don't see any credibility behind it.



I hope you do one day see some credibility behind it. I mean that sincerely. There is some proof out there, it's scarce though. And I think if I were atheistic or just simply not religious, it would be hard for me to find any validity to it also. 

This is faith though (Hebrews 11:1), that we that believe, believe it without the that kind of proof right in front of us. This was a good discussion friends. Maybe we all fleshed out a little but I think it's safe to say we all have benefitted from it.


----------



## Hollowbody

Papus said:


> You have utterly failed to comprehend my main point.



There you go worshipping technology again, trust me, I got it the first time. 

We're not as far along as you think.

I suggest you do some more research, try Egypt and their use of electricity
and air gliders. Also try giants from approx 3 to 4 thousand years ago, the ones that the Smithsonian (a branch of your church) and some archaeologists (your apostles) so desperately try to deny because it's just part of what completely fucks up some of the theories that keep the cash flowing.

You have been taught and bought.


----------



## Adwex

Landshark said:


> .....Need I explain Pascal's wager?



Wow, I can't believe I never heard of this. I'm well aware of Pascal's famous law involving pressure and force in a fluid, but throughout my life of questioning the existence or non-existence of "god", this never came across my radar. I just spent the last half hour reading into it, thank you for turning me on to it.

This is not to say that I have undergone some spiritual revelation, it is just a comfort to me that such a revered, rational thinker has acknowledged what I have proposed all through my life....that, as humans, we just don't know, and can never know if god exists.


----------



## Hollowbody

Adwex said:


> Wow, I can't believe I never heard of this. I'm well aware of Pascal's famous law involving pressure and force in a fluid, but throughout my life of questioning the existence or non-existence of "god", this never came across my radar. I just spent the last half hour reading into it, thank you for turning me on to it.
> 
> This is not to say that I have undergone some spiritual revelation, it is just a comfort to me that such a revered, rational thinker has acknowledged what I have proposed all through my life....that, as humans, we just don't know, and can never know if god exists.



...Wiki, "cannot be determined through reason"

And that was just Pascal.


----------



## Adwex

Hollowbody said:


> ...Wiki, "cannot be determined through reason"
> 
> And that was just Pascal.



Yes, "cannot be determined through reason", but he's referring to existence AND non-existence.

You cannot determine EITHER...which is what I have always proposed. I am neither atheist, nor theist.


----------



## Adwex

Hollowbody said:


> ...Wiki, "cannot be determined through reason"
> 
> And that was just Pascal.



I'd like to add that, both Pascal and I have used reason, to determine that the existence or non-existence of god "cannot be determined through reason".

So, reason still prevails.


----------



## Hollowbody

Adwex said:


> I'd like to add that, both Pascal and I have used reason, to determine that the existence or non-existence of god "cannot be determined through reason".
> 
> So, reason still prevails.



Circles. Point A to point A.



Maybe reason is inadequate, maybe there is more to it.

In that case reason has failed. 

So, I agree.


----------



## Adwex

Hollowbody said:


> Circles. Point A to point A.



No it's not, more of a straight line to a dead end. Point A to no point at all.

My issue with atheists and theists is that both sides make a decision....yes there IS, no there ISN'T. I propose that you cannot make this decision, you don't have enough information, and you never will. This is exactly what Pascal proposed, but his concept of the wager is that you make a decision based on what would make you feel better.


----------



## Adwex

Hollowbody said:


> Circles. Point A to point A.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe reason is inadequate, maybe there is more to it.
> 
> In that case reason has failed.
> 
> So, I agree.



Reason is not inadequate, our information is. Using reason, our information can only lead us so far. We must eventually come to the conclusion that we just don't know the answer.


----------



## Michael1987xl

Adwex said:


> ....that, as humans, we just don't know, and can never know if god exists.



Precisely correct, but let's keep our eye on the ball, as it were; Believers do not need to "know" in the same sense as their detractors use that word. That which they believe _they Believe through Faith_. The use of upper-case letters is deliberate, by the way.

The problems in these sorts of discussions regularly arise, however, when those who _require_ "knowing" (or as they like to refer to it "proof", the use of the quotation marks is, again, deliberate) set forth the rather arrogant and unfounded proposition that their requirement to have this "proof" in order to "know" is somehow indicative of a higher, more evolved and scientifically reasoned intellect. I can assure you, it is not; they may not be any dumber than the Believers they take to task, but that approach in this arena most certainly doesn't make them any "smarter". Even worse and more petty, they regularly attempt to raise themselves up not by demonstrating their own intellectual prowess, but instead, by pointing out how stupid, superstitious and un-evolved the Believers' minds are.

_That_ is where these discussions regularly get derailed.


----------



## Hollowbody

Adwex said:


> ...We must eventually come to the conclusion that we just don't know the answer.



You can come to that conclusion but you can't speak for everyone.


----------



## Adwex

Hollowbody said:


> You can come to that conclusion but you can't speak for everyone.



Then I can only rationally conclude that some of us have more information than I do. I am not capable of making a "leap of faith". I must "know", and I do not, and I have no problem saying so.


----------



## Hollowbody

Michael1987xl said:


> Precisely correct, but let's keep our eye on the ball, as it were; Believers do not need to "know" in the same sense as their detractors use that word. That which they believe _they Believe through Faith_. The use of upper-case letters is deliberate, by the way.
> 
> The problems in these sorts of discussions regularly arise, however, when those who _require_ "knowing" (or as they like to refer to it "proof", the use of the quotation marks is, again, deliberate) set forth the rather arrogant and unfounded proposition that their requirement to have this "proof" in order to "know" is somehow indicative of a higher, more evolved and scientifically reasoned intellect. I can assure you, it is not; they may not be any dumber than the Believers they take to task, but that approach in this arena most certainly doesn't make them any "smarter". Even worse and more petty, they regularly attempt to raise themselves up not by demonstrating their own intellectual prowess, but instead, by pointing out how stupid, superstitious and un-evolved the Believers' minds are.
> 
> _That_ is where these discussions regularly get derailed.




You are right. They don't have to prove to know but they should prove to show.

_Sorry for the unintentional rhyme._


----------



## Adwex

Although I lean closer to their side, I must admit that the strong proponents of atheism are quite arrogant. I have no such arrogance with such big questions.


----------



## Hollowbody

Adwex said:


> Although I lean closer to their side, I must admit that the strong proponents of atheism are quite arrogant. I have no such arrogance with such big questions.



That is why I'm glad you are moderator, I think some of these guys would have not only deleted me by now but the would have figured out how to kill me through the computer.

You have a better disposition and patience than most christians I have had the "pleasure" to know.


----------



## Adwex

Hollowbody said:


> That is why I'm glad you are moderator, I think some of these guys would have not only deleted me by now but the would have figured out how to kill me through the computer.
> 
> You have a better disposition and patience than most christians I have had the "pleasure" to know.



I am in search of the truth, and that pursuit requires listening to testimony from both sides, and so far, neither side has convinced me. While one side is arrogant and dismissive, I feel the other side is somewhat delusional and also dismissive.

Btw, this concept can also be applied to political leanings.


----------



## Georgiatec

So...when's the next rupture?. Sorry to keep taking the piss guys but I'm the self appointed representative of all the people who can count our I.Q.'s on our fingers. This is heavy shit....to summarise;

Camp one...We all die and meet at the gates of St. Peter. He says to the non Christians "where the fuck do you think you're going?....take the helter skelter dude". All the Christians say "see we told you so".

Camp two...We all die.

I know this is somewhat concise, but, I really do think I've covered all the bases.


----------



## Adwex

Georgiatec said:


> So...when's the next rupture?. Sorry to keep taking the piss guys but I'm the self appointed representative of all the people who can count our I.Q.'s on our fingers. This is heavy shit....to summarise;
> 
> Camp one...We all die and meet at the gates of St. Peter. He says to the non Christians "where the fuck do you think you're going?....take the helter skelter dude". All the Christians say "see we told you so".
> 
> Camp two...We all die.
> 
> I know this is somewhat concise, but, I really do think I've covered all the bases.



Basically,.... yeah.

So far, I'm in camp two.

The key words being "so far".


----------



## Georgiatec

Adwex said:


> Basically,.... yeah.
> 
> So far, I'm in camp two.
> 
> The key words being "so far".



Me too Ad...You see the problem with faith is it makes (some) people do dumb stuff. 9/11 was done in the name of faith...Muslim, that is. I think it's a matter of time before someone does something really dumb and we all end up finding out who's right.


----------



## Hollowbody

Georgiatec said:


> Me too Ad...You see the problem with faith is it makes (some) people do dumb stuff. 9/11 was done in the name of faith...Muslim, that is. I think it's a matter of time before someone does something really dumb and we all end up finding out who's right.



Generalizing.

Understandable though, that was a big one.

Hmm, yeah I guess all church people are evil.


----------



## Adwex

Georgiatec said:


> Me too Ad...You see the problem with faith is it makes (some) people do dumb stuff. ...



Yeah, but there's a much bigger problem with faith. It's a substitute for truth..or more accurately, the lack of truth.


----------



## Hollowbody

Ha , all these absolutes, faith is opposite of truth.


----------



## IronMaidenNutter

God doesnt exsist. its quite obvious. For starters why would an all loving person fuck over half the world, including strong christian areas with natural disasters? Why is it cause wars and not do anything about it? God is a myth. This is the age of science. If you believe in god you live in the past and your just niave and cant face life on its own without trying to imagen your being protected by some super being. Face it, we arnt. We could all die now, today, next week, next year from an astroid from out of space the size of england hitting the world. They reason we havnt been hit yet is due to Jupiter, and pure luck. The bible was written around 500 odd years after anything in that book supposedly "happened". Even by todays standerd storys change a lot over the space of a fucking week. So what would you expect from a bunch of humans who were as thick as two short planks by todays standerds, who probaly took numorus amounts of drugs and smoked weed every hour of the day and night. To them this "jesus" guy doing a simple card trick i learnt when i was 5 was probaly like seeing someone raise from the dead. 

had to let that out somewhere


----------



## Gryphon

Carl Sagan has written some great books on this subject. Highly recommended.


----------



## Michael1987xl

IronMaidenNutter said:


> God doesnt exsist.....This is the age of science.



Since this is the age of science I say prove it.

Right.


----------



## IronMaidenNutter

Look around you and what do you see? Technology and things proving that the bible is irrelevant.


----------



## StootMonster

Nothing exists that wasn't made. If you're so sure there is no God, who created this world that we live in? 

That's my problem with the Big Bang Theory. It makes no sense. I'd like to see something evolve. Just once. 

See this dog? It used to be a fly. Then I'd take my ministers license and throw it right in the trash, people.


----------



## Michael1987xl

IronMaidenNutter said:


> Look around you and what do you see? Technology and things proving that the bible is irrelevant.



Seriously, after 16 pages of serious discussion on this, you stroll in here with this weak nut crap? "Technology and_ things_?"

Holy shit.

If that's all you got, I'd bet the mortgage money that about the only thing you obviously know less about than The Bible is science, technology and anything that requires a reasoned explanation. In fact...Wait...Hold on a second...I just got a text from Stephen Hawking. He'd like me to ask you on behalf of the entire scientific community to stop helping them.


----------



## Papus

Pascal's wager is used as a crutch by theists.
Do you really think god can be mocked by people hedging their bets on Pascal's wager?
The notion that it's better to outwardly believe in god just in case he is real whilst in your heart you're just covering your bases is naive and an insult to god.
If I hear one more christist tout Pascal's wager as a logical reason to believe in their scarytale god I'll puke.


----------



## Landshark

Adwex said:


> Wow, I can't believe I never heard of this. I'm well aware of Pascal's famous law involving pressure and force in a fluid, but throughout my life of questioning the existence or non-existence of "god", this never came across my radar. I just spent the last half hour reading into it, thank you for turning me on to it.
> 
> This is not to say that I have undergone some spiritual revelation, it is just a comfort to me that such a revered, rational thinker has acknowledged what I have proposed all through my life....that, as humans, we just don't know, and can never know if god exists.



No problem at all my friend!


----------



## Landshark

IronMaidenNutter said:


> God doesnt exsist. its quite obvious. For starters why would an all loving person fuck over half the world, including strong christian areas with natural disasters? Why is it cause wars and not do anything about it? God is a myth. This is the age of science. If you believe in god you live in the past and your just niave and cant face life on its own without trying to imagen your being protected by some super being. Face it, we arnt. We could all die now, today, next week, next year from an astroid from out of space the size of england hitting the world. They reason we havnt been hit yet is due to Jupiter, and pure luck. The bible was written around 500 odd years after anything in that book supposedly "happened". Even by todays standerd storys change a lot over the space of a fucking week. So what would you expect from a bunch of humans who were as thick as two short planks by todays standerds, who probaly took numorus amounts of drugs and smoked weed every hour of the day and night. To them this "jesus" guy doing a simple card trick i learnt when i was 5 was probaly like seeing someone raise from the dead.
> 
> had to let that out somewhere



? um... I'm pretty sure we've been over this...



Michael1987xl said:


> Seriously, after 16 pages of serious discussion on this, you stroll in here with this weak nut crap? "Technology and_ things_?"
> 
> Holy shit.
> 
> If that's all you got, I'd bet the mortgage money that about the only thing you obviously know less about than The Bible is science, technology and anything that requires a reasoned explanation. In fact...Wait...Hold on a second...I just got a text from Stephen Hawking. He'd like me to ask you on behalf of the entire scientific community to stop helping them.



Yup.



Papus said:


> Pascal's wager is used as a crutch by theists.
> Do you really think god can be mocked by people hedging their bets on Pascal's wager?
> The notion that it's better to outwardly believe in god just in case he is real whilst in your heart you're just covering your bases is naive and an insult to god.
> If I hear one more christist tout Pascal's wager as a logical reason to believe in their scarytale god I'll puke.



No... See you, being unreligious, just don't understand. It's no crutch. By all means believe what you want. We can neither prove diety nor disprove diety, so if there is one would an individual want to live like there is one? This would at least give an individual a fighting chance.

I'll get you a bucket...


----------



## Papus

Landshark said:


> ? um... I'm pretty sure we've been over this...
> 
> 
> 
> Yup.
> 
> 
> 
> No... See you, being unreligious, just don't understand. It's no crutch. By all means believe what you want. We can neither prove diety nor disprove diety, so if there is one would an individual want to live like there is one? This would at least give an individual a fighting chance.
> 
> I'll get you a bucket...



Hmm, let's hold Pascal's wager up against the christist's book:

Pascal's wager: "might as well say there is a god and pay him lip service just in case it's not a bunch of hooey"

God: "love the lord your god with all your heart, soul, and mind".

methinks the god of the christists is not easily convinced by the hoardes of bet hedgers who try to fall back on Pascal's wager


----------



## Landshark

Papus said:


> Hmm, let's hold Pascal's wager up against the christist's book:
> 
> Pascal's wager: "might as well say there is a god and pay him lip service just in case it's not a bunch of hooey"
> 
> God: "love the lord your god with all your heart, soul, and mind".
> 
> methinks the god of the christists is not easily convinced by the hoardes of bet hedgers who try to fall back on Pascal's wager



You're still not getting it. Don't matter though. Keep on rocking boys. I'm out.


----------



## Papus

I postulate Papus' theorem:

No person, no matter how faithful and pious they claim to be, will bother to continue with such piety given the following conditions:

There is no eternal life: we are born human, live and die human, with no soul, no afterlife, no prospect or need of salvation.
All we can do is live our mortal life as we see fit.
One may choose to serve and love god during their mortal life, but it will not gain them anything after death, nor will it bring them "closer" to their god.
Conversely, a person may choose to abandon god and live their mortal life to the fullest, doing as they please according to their will and their intellect - they will also die and cease to be, with no consequence after death.

My point is this:
I am willing to bet that 99.99% of religious persons/ people of faith ONLY follow that path in order to attain some theoritical eternal reward - beit heavenly paradise, reunion with loved ones, "closeness" to god, 72 virgins, or a wall of dimed Plexi's and a 57' Les Paul.
Remove the prospect of eternal reward and EVERY SINGLE PERSON will choose self over "god".
I.E. despite their protestations, religious people only have THEMSELVES at heart and their OWN interests to protect by maintaining the fascade of "faith" and "devotion"

QED


----------



## Georgiatec

Papus said:


> I postulate Papus' theorem:
> 
> No person, no matter how faithful and pious they claim to be, will bother to continue with such piety given the following conditions:
> 
> There is no eternal life: we are born human, live and die human, with no soul, no afterlife, no prospect or need of salvation.
> All we can do is live our mortal life as we see fit.
> One may choose to serve and love god during their mortal life, but it will not gain them anything after death, nor will it bring them "closer" to their god.
> Conversely, a person may choose to abandon god and live their mortal life to the fullest, doing as they please according to their will and their intellect - they will also die and cease to be, with no consequence after death.
> 
> My point is this:
> I am willing to bet that 99.99% of religious persons/ people of faith ONLY follow that path in order to attain some theoritical eternal reward - beit heavenly paradise, reunion with loved ones, "closeness" to god, 72 virgins, or a wall of dimed Plexi's and a 57' Les Paul.
> Remove the prospect of eternal reward and EVERY SINGLE PERSON will choose self over "god".
> I.E. despite their protestations, religious people only have THEMSELVES at heart and their OWN interests to protect by maintaining the fascade of "faith" and "devotion"
> 
> QED



Cruel...but fair.


----------



## kramer.geetar

I have no problem with religion, of any kind. However, people kill in the name of God. Be it muslims, christians etc. Of course those topics are not talked about. What gets me however are the groups of people like in this video or that lady from the documentary Jesus Camp. I'm not religious, but one of my good friends is a pastor. He respects my views and I respect his. He too doesn't like all these tele-evangalist and so on but what can you do, people will try and make money out of anything, especially from peoples fears.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfucpGCm5hY[/ame]


----------



## StootMonster

kramer.geetar said:


> I have no problem with religion, of any kind. However, people kill in the name of God. Be it muslims, christians etc. Of course those topics are not talked about. What gets me however are the groups of people like in this video or that lady from the documentary Jesus Camp. I'm not religious, but one of my good friends is a pastor. He respects my views and I respect his. He too doesn't like all these tele-evangalist and so on but what can you do, people will try and make money out of anything, especially from peoples fears.
> 
> YouTube - ‪Origin of species - Science Fail‬&rlm;



You're totally right, Kramer. People will try to $$ in on anything. Religion is a cash cow for a fraud. They can make so much money if they can just get up and preach a believable sermon that moves people to give their hard earned cash. Christians are instructed to give by God, to the needy, the poor, the widows, ...basically anyone who is in need. That's why there are so many pastors with silk suits and nice cars on TV. They're pulpit has gold thrones for chairs and everything is a huge production. All that is from money given in faith by the congregation. It's up to us to give, but it's up to the people who receive the money to use it properly. 

As far as Religion being used to further the cause of war, yep. That too. But you have to keep in mind, it's not the actual relationship between a believer and their God that motivates it (speaking only about Christianity), it's the ruler and the politics behind the war. The crusades had nothing to do with Christianity. There couldn't be a clearer picture of how NOT to spread the gospel than what history says about the Crusades. Repent to God or die!! Please. That has nothing to do with God.

I hear a lot of people say things like "Religion is for the weak", "Religion is for someone who can't think for themselves", "Religion is for people too stupid to realize there is no God"... I've heard it all. Every person I've ever know that has said that is speaking out of ignorance, making blanket statements about people they've never met and mostly speaking about rejecting God because somewhere along the line in their life, some family member or friend or someone has either tried to force religion (not spirituality) down your throat, or someone claiming to be so super spiritual they were "in tune with God" burned you severely and now you think all Christians are full of shite. Or, my personal favorite: "My best friend died when I was 14 from cancer (or whatever illness)... how can a just God kill a young kid" or a grandma, or a grandpa or a Mom or Dad... 

People, what kind of world would this be if nobody died? For real? People die. Whether they are young, old, or in the middle; people die. Our selection of who we decide to marry and have kids with determine the genetic response in our children's DNA. Don't blame God because you married someone that has a family history of heart problems and then your kid dies at a young age of heart disease of whatever.... 

Funny how people claim God doesn't exist until they get pissed and then they blame him for being some asshat with no clue that just zaps people with his lightening bolt from the sky at his leisure. 

I hate theological debates. The only reason I'm even doing this today is because I'm already in a lame mood today for other reasons, and I just don't really care as much as usual about keeping my trap shut. 

So flame away if you see fit, agree if you see fit, but people, we seriously did not evolve from sea slime that turned into monkeys that turned into a man. That is the most ridiculous theory I've ever heard in my life. People who don't believe in God based on solid facts and logic cling to a theory that we evolved from slime? That is the most ironic, hilarious thing I've ever heard!

Peace, out.

Stoots


----------



## StootMonster

I hope I killed this thread


----------



## Papus

Ever notice that a great many people of faith eventually conclude that agnosticism or atheism is the obvious truth, but very few agnostics/atheists conclude that god and religion are the truth?
There is a natural, scientific and logical evolution in thought processes which lead the honest enquiring mind towards agnosticism or even atheism.
The opposite is NOT true of theism.
Theism, if not incultured from birth, almost always grows from an experience of trauma, loss, confusion, hatred, xenophobia, or oppression.
I know which causality I would trust as the basis for a systemic world view...


----------



## Hollowbody

Then there are the few like me, the more I hear you the closer it puts me in the direction of believing in God. I don't need christians to try to convert me, all it takes is to listen to your logic some more.

And I love how people always site religion as the cause for most of the wars in this world. Yeah, but try wars for any ideology, how about wars for land, wars for resources, wars for money, wars for selfish gain and wanting to bang the queen in the kingdom next door.

And many times it's about one of those other things, but they just use righteous religion as an excuse and even good religious people seeking god end up paying the price, often with their lives.


----------



## Hollowbody

Just an observation.

The religious people on this thread, the ones who claim to believe in god, it seems like they try to answer all the questions presented to them, wether completely accurate or not.

But when asked a difficult question, some of the atheists seem to just stay quiet maybe in hopes that the query will be forgotten.

And where are the Hindus? With their many many gods, where are they in this conversation? Is it just their way to steer clear of the crazy? Or maybe there are just not very many other persuasions on Marshallforum besides athiests and christians. (just curious)


----------



## Australian

Hollowbody said:


> Just an observation.
> 
> The religious people on this thread, the ones who claim to believe in god, it seems like they try to answer all the questions presented to them, wether completely accurate or not.
> 
> But when asked a difficult question, some of the atheists seem to just stay quiet maybe in hopes that the query will be forgotten.
> 
> And where are the Hindus? With their many many gods, where are they in this conversation? Is it just their way to steer clear of the crazy? Or maybe there are just not very many other persuasions on Marshallforum besides athiests and christians. (just curious)


I agree with alot of that.
At the end of the day does it matter whos right or wrong in this argument? Theres the most important "right" and thats whats "right" for you.

If you go to some of these sites that are devastated by earthquakes etc. there are lots of religious and non religious people, helping because they like to help people. Religions are there because people have a desire to help.

Isnt endless talk about a God proof enough that a prime mover exists? 

I am personally content knowing that there is an Adwex that is moderating the larger Forum which is the Universe. But I also think that a God would do us a disservice if he stepped in and picked up the pieces all the time. 

I am even content if a God cant be proven with mathematics, or Science, or even explained with any of our vocabulary. If it was possible, then wouldnt that make what we know to be a God incorrect?

Look back in history. People have believed in God or Gods for a lot longer than they havn't.

The Beatles wrote a song because they searched too. 
Let it Be Papas, Let it Be.


----------



## SmokeyDopey

The truth.
YOU CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH!


----------



## Australian

SmokeyDopey said:


> The truth.
> YOU CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH!



Who me?

If so why do you say that?


----------



## Hollowbody

SmokeyDopey said:


> The truth.
> YOU CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH!




That was a great line in a pretty good movie. 

My favorite roll by Jack was in the movie As Good As It Gets, where he says the line: "*What if this is as good as it gets*?"


----------



## SmokeyDopey

I think my favorite roll by Jack is in "One flew over the cuckoo's nest".


----------



## Hollowbody

I bet people think movie titles and quotes are getting off subject but these could apply.


----------



## StootMonster

Papus said:


> Ever notice that a great many people of faith eventually conclude that agnosticism or atheism is the obvious truth



No.


----------



## diesect20022000

I'm not interested in who's cock is bigger but, I was a person of faith and lost it after reading a couple versions of the bible and delving deeply into science again.

I'm not opposed or anything to others having faith. Again, I like that we have that choice. I think there're problems on both "sides" so to each their own.

I am a firm atheist now though.


----------



## Hollowbody

diesect20022000 said:


> I'm not interested in who's cock is bigger
> 
> ...


----------



## SmokeyDopey

Shall we post our cock pics?

I have one with my yellow cock


----------



## Hollowbody

SmokeyDopey said:


> Shall we post our cock pics?
> 
> I have one with my yellow cock



You all ready used it.


----------



## Moose Lewis

I tried atheism for roughly a year in my late teens when I first left the Baptist church that I had been actively involved with since age 5, but the spirits wouldn't leave me alone. I've been a student of religion, philosophy, myth and legend throughout my life... and yes - fwiw, I'm well read with real life experiences. If classification is important, I suppose I would fall under spiritualist, neo-pagan or shaman. That's less of a concern to me than my search for the divine, and separating the literary works of men from perceived evidence of the hand of a higher power; or the prejudices of fear mongering.

Most religions have the same basic tenants at their core. It's when they depart from these and attempt a form of fundamentalism - which converts religion into government - that they all begin to stifle the human spirit and impose power and control over one another... something that goes directly against the core beliefs. At least that is what I have seen time and time again.

But then, I believe humor is divine and one of the greatest gifts from our maker, beyond life itself. That which cannot withstand introspective humor is flawed and fearful of being found out.

I guess that makes me one of the nut cases.
 Cheers


----------



## SmokeyDopey

Hollowbody said:


> You all ready used it.


 
I know. Otherwise I would've posted it again already. I don't want to hurt everyone's eyes again


----------



## Michael1987xl

Papus said:


> Ever notice that a great many people of faith eventually conclude that agnosticism or atheism is the obvious truth, but very few agnostics/atheists conclude that god and religion are the truth?



No, I haven't noticed that; but then, the New York Metropolitan area isn't exactly one of the most diverse, cosmopolitan parts of the world either, I've only spent 45 of my 52 years traveling most of the world and not quite all of it, so my life experience is a bit weak. Also, I only hold 3 bachelors degrees and one doctorate, so my education may be quite limited and all in all perhaps I'm _not_ the best one to comment on it. I'm not saying your statement isn't true, but you are saying it_ is_. OK, fine; being that you obviously understand logic and the process of scientific proof given your highly evolved intellect, could you provide the data upon which you base that statement? Of course, you'll have to come up with something a little more quantifiable than unverifiable anecdotal evidence, _"Things You Might Imagine", "Things You Think You Noticed", "Convenient Facts You Made Up for The Purposes of Conversation"_ or "_Bullshit Other Atheists Like To Say Because They Think It Makes Them Sound Smart_". 

For my own edification, please include references to verifiable, identifiable and reliable source materials. As you clearly have an appreciation for the evidence upon which such sweeping conclusory statements must be based so that one doesn't appear to be an idiot for believing them, I'm sure you have them available.



> There is a natural, scientific and logical evolution in thought processes which lead the honest enquiring mind towards agnosticism or even atheism.



Indeed, natural, scientific and logical thought does engage in a very specific, and _highly quantifiable_, easily described thought process. I'm curious to learn about this mysterious process myself. Since I'm sure you know what it is, as you would never use words which you don't really understand but think make you sound smarter than the rest of us, please lay it out for us; feel free to start at the original idea through all steps including and leading to conclusion (in this case, resulting in atheism as the "logical choice"), including (again) all source data and materials so that it can be properly reviewed and validated by consensus. I think it's the natural process part of this that we'll all find the most interesting in your description.

By the way, your highly evolved and developed intellect misused "inquire" and misspelled "inquiring" all in one shot. Truly, only a more evolved mind could have done that. Thought you might want to pick that up.



> The opposite is NOT true of theism. Theism, if not incultured from birth, almost always grows from an experience of trauma, loss, confusion, hatred, xenophobia, or oppression.



Please, again, cite your data and source materials with specificity, as I'm sure you'll be referring to them in the description of the logical process you described above.

By the way, there's no such word as "incultured", at least not in the _Dictionary for the Common People_ they sell at WalMart. Could you provide me a reference for that one, as I'd like to be smarter, too.



> I know which causality I would trust as the basis for a systemic world view...



And I expect that in the process of backing up the claims you made as quoted and set forth above, you'll be able to explain to us the data upon which you relied, where you acquired it from and precisely how that brilliant, inquiring and highly evolved mind of yours digested and extrapolated it all and came to such a logical, scientific and purely intellectually reasoned, and therefore unquestionably accurate conclusion.

I for one am really looking forward to it! Thanks!


----------



## Jack92CH

StootMonster said:


> It makes no sense. I'd like to see something evolve. Just once.



Disease.


----------



## Jack92CH

StootMonster said:


> Nothing exists that wasn't made. If you're so sure there is no God, who created this world that we live in?



I could ask you, if nothing exists that wasn't made, who created God?


----------



## StootMonster

Jack92CH said:


> Disease.



Right, and over the 20 gazillion years this earth has been around what have these diseases evolved into? A prairie dog? Or just a stronger strain? I'm not talking about a small change, I'm talking about point A to point Z. If we as humans evolved from slime, surely the scientific method is true. If it is true, it is a law of nature. If it is a law of nature, it applies to all life. What else has evolved into a total different form? 

And don't start talking about Elephants and Woolly Mammoths that share the same family tree. 

I am just tired of people railing on us Christians for believing in something so far fetched when the theories of Science are ever changing and evolving (as have been said on this thread already). You can't prove any more than I can. And that's a fact, Jack. (LOL, sorry, man I couldn't resist using your name in that line)


----------



## Jack92CH

So when an avian flu virus mutates to become contagious between humans that's not big enough to be considered evolution? A small change just doesn't count I guess, even when all evolution is is a serious of very minute changes over a very long period of time. Things don't just transform.

Infectious viruses and bacteria have no need to evolve into something more complex, only something more efficient at infecting and multiplying, which is clearly what they do. Why do you think they suddenly become resistant to medications and antibiotics? It's much easier to observe in something so simple as a single celled organism.


----------



## Michael1987xl

I don't believe that diseases "evolve", in so much as they "mutate"; the difference is subtle, yet profound.

By the way, not all Christians or Theists hold beliefs that run counter the theories (note the use of the plural) regarding evolution and/or those of the Big Bang. To make it easier for the more highly developed intellects in the room, though, I'll allow you to lump us all into one big, ignorant group until i become really tired of it and decide to expose you all for the arrogant fools you actually are.


----------



## Jack92CH

Michael1987xl said:


> I don't believe that diseases "evolve", in so much as they "mutate"; the difference is subtle, yet profound.



It's the same principle. Something in their genetic code is altered to make them a more efficient organism in an environment that previously would have killed them. Whether you call it mutation or evolution it's still obvious that these changes happen on their own in nature.


----------



## Michael1987xl

Jack92CH said:


> It's the same principle. Something in their genetic code is altered to make them a more efficient organism in an environment that previously would have killed them. Whether you call it mutation or evolution it's still obvious that these changes happen on their own in nature.



Not quite, Binky. As I said, the difference is subtle but _profound_, and these two things are not the same. 

While "Mutation" does imply an organism undergoing a change to become more apt to survive within its environment by becoming more resistant to things that within that environment and hostile to the organism, "evolution" implies going more than just a step further and, literally, over time, developing into another species. 

I'd rather like to know, also, where you get the idea that this 'mutation" happens at the "genetic" level; that's a very specific remark, have you any data to support that?


----------



## SmokeyDopey

God is the universe, the universe is god.
How can you be everywhere and not be no where?

I guess humans made the universed personified (?)


----------



## Australian

SmokeyDopey said:


> God is the universe, the universe is god.
> How can you be everywhere and not be no where?
> 
> I guess humans made the universed personified (?)



My understanding is that God would not even be bound the the laws of the universe. So maybe we would have to look outside the box?
I dont think that there would be anything that is material about God in 'his' true essence.


----------



## Jack92CH

Michael1987xl said:


> Not quite, Binky. As I said, the difference is subtle but _profound_, and these two things are not the same.
> 
> While "Mutation" does imply an organism undergoing a change to become more apt to survive within its environment by becoming more resistant to things that within that environment and hostile to the organism, "evolution" implies going more than just a step further and, literally, over time, developing into another species.
> 
> I'd rather like to know, also, where you get the idea that this 'mutation" happens at the "genetic" level; that's a very specific remark, have you any data to support that?



I see the difference, but either is still a CHANGE in response to the environment, which is my point.

How could mutation happen at any other level? Mutation is a result of changes in the genetic code of an organism by some influence. I don't see why I need to back this up, they taught this crap in high school biology. If I'm wrong tell me.


----------



## Australian

Jack92CH said:


> I see the difference, but either is still a CHANGE in response to the environment, which is my point.
> 
> How could mutation happen at any other level? Mutation is a result of changes in the genetic code of an organism by some influence. I don't see why I need to back this up, they taught this crap in high school biology. If I'm wrong tell me.



Youre right Jack. 
Also exposure to nuclear radiation was causing mutation back when they were doing some tests in the 50's. Even to vegetation, it was happening at a genetic level. I was reading up on this a few years ago, as I was interested in it.


----------



## StootMonster

"Who made God?" was your question. My answer is this: God created time. We live our lives at the mercy of time. God is not subject to time, considering it's a creation. Look at it as a rubber band with someone holding each end stretched out. All we know is "rubber band" God sees the beginning, middle and ending all at once, knowing fully what has, is and will be happening at all times. So to ask who created God would be insinuating that God is subject to the same rules of nature that we are. Considering he CREATED all these perfect and harmonious rules and laws - How could he be subject to them? 

Answer: No one created God. He was always there. Ponder that. It's pretty deep. (I'm not being sarcastic here)


----------



## Jack92CH

StootMonster said:


> "Who made God?" was your question. My answer is this: God created time. We live our lives at the mercy of time. God is not subject to time, considering it's a creation. Look at it as a rubber band with someone holding each end stretched out. All we know is "rubber band" God sees the beginning, middle and ending all at once, knowing fully what has, is and will be happening at all times. So to ask who created God would be insinuating that God is subject to the same rules of nature that we are. Considering he CREATED all these perfect and harmonious rules and laws - How could he be subject to them?
> 
> Answer: No one created God. He was always there. Ponder that. It's pretty deep. (I'm not being sarcastic here)



Alternative: No one created existence. It was always here. Ponder that. It's pretty deep. I'm not being sarcastic either.

There is no time, and I would argue that the universe is not perfect at all.


----------



## StootMonster

There is no time?


Seriously? OK, I'm reverting back to my original plan of "Theological debates are a waste of time"...

See you guys in the actual Marshall related threads. No hard feelings, Jack.


----------



## Hollowbody

Jack92CH said:


> There is no time, and I would argue that the universe is not perfect at all.



Probably.

Like how some of the basic laws of thermodynamics seem to be in conflict with the Big Bang theory?

...correct me if I'm wrong, I'm definitely not a scientist but it just seems that way from what I am reading.


----------



## Jack92CH

Yes, there is no time. We made it up. It may be useful, but that's about it.


----------



## Jack92CH

Hollowbody said:


> Probably.
> 
> Like how some of the basic laws of thermodynamics seem to be in conflict with the Big Bang theory?
> 
> ...correct me if I'm wrong, I'm definitely not a scientist but it just seems that way from what I am reading.



I don't really back the Big Bang theory, people keep coming up with new ones. There are a few contradictions physicists have made. Quantum theory doesn't match up with the theory of relativity, and string theory is a garbled mess of them both.


----------



## SmokeyDopey

Yup, time is just human creation. Since we have expiration dates, a clock and a calendar comes in handy. Just like cardinal points, there really isnt a north or south, its just based off earth coordinates. 
Theres no up or down or sideways, its just THERE.


----------



## Adwex

Michael1987xl said:


> I don't believe that diseases "evolve", in so much as they "mutate"; the difference is subtle, yet profound.
> 
> By the way, not all Christians or Theists hold beliefs that run counter the theories (note the use of the plural) regarding evolution and/or those of the Big Bang. To make it easier for the more highly developed intellects in the room, though, I'll allow you to lump us all into one big, ignorant group until i become really tired of it and decide to expose you all for the arrogant fools you actually are.



I'm not arrogant, or a fool. I make no claim to know what no human can possible know, theist, or atheist.

I do know however, that evolution is a result of mutations...random genetic mutations...some are beneficial that help a species survive and produce offspring, some are not, and hinder a species, thus producing less, or no offspring. Those offspring that now have that beneficial mutation survive to produce more offspring, and the cycle continues for millions of generations. That's evolution.

By the way, evolution has nothing to do with the origin of life.


----------



## Adwex

Hollowbody said:


> Probably.
> 
> Like how some of the basic laws of thermodynamics seem to be in conflict with the Big Bang theory?
> 
> ...correct me if I'm wrong, I'm definitely not a scientist but it just seems that way from what I am reading.



The first law of thermodynamics is the law of conservation of energy...energy can neither be created nor destroyed. Actually, yes, this does raise questions about the big bang, i.e. where did the energy come from.


----------



## Buggs.Crosby

Adwex said:


> i.e. where did the energy come from.



Jim Marshall's shop the day Jimi walked in


----------



## Papus

Michael1987xl said:


> No, I haven't noticed that; but then, the New York Metropolitan area isn't exactly one of the most diverse, cosmopolitan parts of the world either, I've only spent 45 of my 52 years traveling most of the world and not quite all of it, so my life experience is a bit weak. Also, I only hold 3 bachelors degrees and one doctorate, so my education may be quite limited and all in all perhaps I'm _not_ the best one to comment on it. I'm not saying your statement isn't true, but you are saying it_ is_.
> 
> 
> A Renaissance man - I like it!
> Likewise, my 12 years' travel to over 97 countries, the Arctic Circle & Antarctica, my Master's degree, rudimentary knowledge of half a dozen languages and 5 year's formal study of Jazz Performance has left me inexperienced and bereft of wisdom, LOL
> I've actually lost track of how many around the world flights I've made, but I can tell you where to get a decent coffee and a tasty lunch in dozens of cities around the world... still, it don't mean shit.
> 
> You seem rather bitter and aggressive, which is a shame given your tremendous life experience and colossal intellect - I wonder, how did you become like that?
> It would be better for the world if you could share your wisdom, your knowledge, your joy and your creativity instead of devoting your considerable mind to the destruction of others - after all, you can't take it with you beyond the grave.
> Such a shame the youth of the world aren't basking in your glow and learning at your feet.
> I guess I'd be pissed too if I had your self-proclaimed superior intellect and was forced to contend with us mere mortals from the lower orders on this forum, LOL - especially the ones who deign to elevate themselves to converse with you - presumably on your own level!
> Oh, the arrogance, the hubris to think that we have anything to offer in the light of your shining brilliance!
> I really would rather you passed on your great learning to all and sundry, instead you pontificate and berate like the pompous deities you believe in.
> Perhaps you would make a good case in point for the anthropomorphic nature of the gods our species has created to ease our little minds.


----------



## Papus

Michael1987xl said:


> I don't believe that diseases "evolve", in so much as they "mutate"; the difference is subtle, yet profound.
> 
> By the way, not all Christians or Theists hold beliefs that run counter the theories (note the use of the plural) regarding evolution and/or those of the Big Bang. To make it easier for the more highly developed intellects in the room, though, I'll allow you to lump us all into one big, ignorant group until i become really tired of it and decide to expose you all for the arrogant fools you actually are.



I smell something fishy here....... was that a huge pile of hubris that just flew past the forum?


----------



## Adwex

Papus said:


> A Renaissance man - I like it!
> Likewise, my 12 years' travel to over 97 countries, the Arctic Circle & Antarctica, my Master's degree, rudimentary knowledge of half a dozen languages and 5 year's formal study of Jazz Performance has left me inexperienced and bereft of wisdom, LOL
> I've actually lost track of how many around the world flights I've made, but I can tell you where to get a decent coffee and a tasty lunch in dozens of cities around the world... still, it don't mean shit.
> 
> You seem rather bitter and aggressive, which is a shame given your tremendous life experience and colossal intellect - I wonder, how did you become like that?
> It would be better for the world if you could share your wisdom, your knowledge, your joy and your creativity instead of devoting your considerable mind to the destruction of others - after all, you can't take it with you beyond the grave.
> Such a shame the youth of the world aren't basking in your glow and learning at your feet.
> I guess I'd be pissed too if I had your self-proclaimed superior intellect and was forced to contend with us mere mortals from the lower orders on this forum, LOL - especially the ones who deign to elevate themselves to converse with you - presumably on your own level!
> Oh, the arrogance, the hubris to think that we have anything to offer in the light of your shining brilliance!
> I really would rather you passed on your great learning to all and sundry, instead you pontificate and berate like the pompous deities you believe in.
> Perhaps you would make a good case in point for the anthropomorphic nature of the gods our species has created to ease our little minds.



That color is difficult to read.


----------



## Adwex

Michael1987xl said:


> ....I'd rather like to know, also, where you get the idea that this 'mutation" happens at the "genetic" level; that's a very specific remark, have you any data to support that?



It is a well documented and accepted fact that mutations happen at the genetic level, I'm not sure why anyone would question that.

Here's some reading material:
Mutations in DNA
What Causes DNA Mutations?
What is a Mutation?
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kp0esidDr-c]YouTube - ‪DNA MUTATION‬&rlm;[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEi1YU8t85Q&NR=1&feature=fvwp]YouTube - ‪Human Physiology : What Is Mutation?‬&rlm;[/ame]

I learned this stuff in high school. Would you like more data?

I'm curious...how did you think mutations occur?


----------



## Adwex

If this basic biology is not common knowledge, then our education system is failing.


----------



## Hollowbody

Adwex said:


> If this basic biology is not common knowledge, then our education system is failing.




It is.


----------



## StootMonster

Biology or not, our educational system IS failing, but that's an entirely different thread.


----------



## Papus

Adwex said:


> That color is difficult to read.



agreed.....it appeared fine on my work computer.
what was I thinking?
that will teach me to squander company resources


----------



## Papus

I do find it interesting that at the time of publishing there were less than twenty people in the world capable of understanding special and general relativity.
When I was at school it was Semester I year 12 Physics...
What will our kids be learning in 100 years that Steven Hawking struggles to grasp today?
And people think I'm nuts for reiterating our capability and our need to get off this planet, out of this solar system and ultimately liberate our consciousnesses from our bodies?
I say let's compare notes in 100,000 years (if we don't kill ourselves first)


----------



## Jack92CH

Papus said:


> And people think I'm nuts for reiterating our capability and our need to get off this planet, out of this solar system and ultimately liberate our consciousnesses from our bodies?



We have the ability to create a human paradise on this planet. Instead, we destroy it and ourselves. There's no need to leave Earth unless we create one.

Your body is your consciousness. If you want to be liberated you need to be dead.


----------



## IronMaidenNutter

Michael1987xl said:


> Seriously, after 16 pages of serious discussion on this, you stroll in here with this weak nut crap? "Technology and_ things_?"
> 
> Holy shit.
> 
> If that's all you got, I'd bet the mortgage money that about the only thing you obviously know less about than The Bible is science, technology and anything that requires a reasoned explanation. In fact...Wait...Hold on a second...I just got a text from Stephen Hawking. He'd like me to ask you on behalf of the entire scientific community to stop helping them.



Just getting my view on it across mate. No need to be a cunt...

As for evolution. Things dont evolve in the space of our life time. It takes 10,000 odd years. I really dont care if you think im some silly kid, but just seirously... religion is a waste of space. Prove to me there IS a god then.

Oh and sorry for not reading all 16 pages... I couldnt really be assed, i like to get my point across straight away.


----------



## Papus

Superior intelligence or the lack thereof is no prerequisite or hindrance to being a c*nt...
They occur in all strata of society


----------



## IronMaidenNutter

Nah not that, but the way he awnsered makes him a cunt. lol Trying to make me feel small and like a silly kid...


----------



## scat7s

why is there some 'need' to get off this planet? from a human perspective, what for?

to find our utopian existence? i thought thats what some of us have in mind here on earth? and a utopia for whom? for those who can afford it? for those who are worthy? based on someone elses matrix of who would belong or not belong?

so imagine if we did (find a new planet to call home), who would get to go? this whole idea of utopia smells an awful lot like nazi-ism

im not trying to sound confrontational, just asking the questions...


----------



## Georgiatec

Adwex said:


> That color is difficult to read.



Makes you concentrate on every word though....clever...or just dumb luck??


----------



## Papus

Georgiatec said:


> Makes you concentrate on every word though....clever...or just dumb luck??



Dumb luck I'm afraid....
Changed it back to white so us old farts can read it


----------



## Papus

scat7s said:


> why is there some 'need' to get off this planet? from a human perspective, what for?
> 
> to find our utopian existence? i thought thats what some of us have in mind here on earth? and a utopia for whom? for those who can afford it? for those who are worthy? based on someone elses matrix of who would belong or not belong?
> 
> so imagine if we did (find a new planet to call home), who would get to go? this whole idea of utopia smells an awful lot like nazi-ism
> 
> im not trying to sound confrontational, just asking the questions...



It's a simple matter of survival.
Our sun will go nova in about 6 billion years..... we need to take baby steps to first get off this planet and colonise the others in our Solar System, then get out of this Solar System altogether before the Sun expands well beyond the orbit of Mars.
It follows on that we must also find a way to disembody our consciousnesses and find a way to exist beyond what we currently call the physical universe before the Cosmos cools off and dies or implodes in another Big Bang.
Otherwise our species just won't survive, period


----------



## Username2

So, I have stayed out of this for a few days. What have you guys all figured out? 

Any consensus here yet? Anyone of you repent and ask Jesus Christ for forgiveness and accept him as Lord and Savior? 

Or have you all made enough arguments to convince yourselves that you are bigger and wiser then God and that he won't remember I single thought you had here. Or perhaps that science has a narrative and explanation for everything God says. Just asking.


----------



## Username2

StootMonster said:


> Biology or not, our educational system IS failing, but that's an entirely different thread.


 
No I think you can make a pretty good case for it going through all these posts. Education in our country has in large become indoctination.


----------



## scat7s

nuke said:


> No I think you can make a pretty good case for it going through all these posts. Education in our country has in large become indoctination.


 
true that. and its been going in that direction since at least post ww2. and realistically, at least in a collegic sense, probably quite some time b4 ww2. 

sorry to switch gears, but anyone familliar with transhumanism? papus? 
its a pretty creepy prospect, but science, as we know, is unyeilding, no matter the consequences.


----------



## Jack92CH

nuke said:


> So, I have stayed out of this for a few days. What have you guys all figured out?
> 
> Any consensus here yet? Anyone of you repent and ask Jesus Christ for forgiveness and accept him as Lord and Savior?
> 
> Or have you all made enough arguments to convince yourselves that you are bigger and wiser then God and that he won't remember I single thought you had here. Or perhaps that science has a narrative and explanation for everything God says. Just asking.



I found out that I am indeed Jesus Christ and you are not helping me.


----------



## Username2

Jack92CH said:


> I found out that I am indeed Jesus Christ and you are not helping me.


 
Well since I know Jesus Christ and you just broke four commandments without blinking an eye about doing so or caring that you did it I am going to have to produce this as evidence you are not. 

Each commandment you just broke with that single quote carries the same penalty, death. Another words you could have murdered four people and been in the same trouble. 


1. You shall have no other gods before Me. By you claiming to be Christ you saying YOU are God

2. You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My Commandments. This one you also broke by saying you are Christ, you are making yourself into a image that is a lie with that statement

3. “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain. By making this casual claim you have just taken Gods name in vain

9. “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. You lied


----------



## Jack92CH

nuke said:


> Well since I know Jesus Christ and you just broke four commandments without blinking an eye about doing so or caring that you did it I am going to have to produce this as evidence you are not.
> 
> Each commandment you just broke with that single quote carries the same penalty, death. Another words you could have murdered four people and been in the same trouble.
> 
> 
> 1. You shall have no other gods before Me. By you claiming to be Christ you saying YOU are God
> 
> 2. You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My Commandments. This one you also broke by saying you are Christ, you are making yourself into a image that is a lie with that statement
> 
> 3. “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain. By making this casual claim you have just taken Gods name in vain
> 
> 9. “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. You lied



You're gonna get an ulcer one day if you keep letting this shit go to your head.

But wait...the DEATH penalty? In CHRISTIANITY?!? Contradiction, anyone?


----------



## Jack92CH

To many Jesus himself broke all of those commandments. He claimed to be God, he made himself an image of the divine, he used the name of God for purposes that served his own, and most people thought he was full of shit(lying). The fact that you read a book in support of the guy and believed what was in it doesn't give it a shred of credibility.

And telling someone they are deserving of death? What the fuck? Is this the 1st century or have you really gone over the edge?


----------



## SmokeyDopey

Wait.... saying you're jesus is the same as killing 4 people?

Well, I think I'm gonna have to disagree on that.


----------



## SmokeyDopey

Talking about the Big Bang:

You know that when you look through a telescope at the stars, in a way you're looking at the past.
What if a telescope the size of SATURN were made (I'm talking about a really fucking powerful telescope, nothing like we know today).
Would we be able to look at stuff from way back when the "Big Bang" happened? Would we see before that (of course if the Big Bang happened)? 
If everything is infinite, can it be possible OUR universe is just a proton or a neutron of an atom from something so big that its something our little brains don't understand?

What if we are able to look at what a proton or neutron is composed of, and turns out there is a whole universe in it?
"Infinite" goes both ways.

At first people thought atoms were the smallest thing. Turns out it has protons and neutrons. Then it turns out quarks are the smallest thing. You think it will stop there? No, its INFINITE. It just keeps getting smaller and smaller and smaller.........


----------



## Username2

Jack92CH said:


> To many Jesus himself broke all of those commandments. He claimed to be God, he made himself an image of the divine, he used the name of God for purposes that served his own, and most people thought he was full of shit(lying). The fact that you read a book in support of the guy and believed what was in it doesn't give it a shred of credibility.
> 
> And telling someone they are deserving of death? What the fuck? Is this the 1st century or have you really gone over the edge?



It is not me that judges you, God does and will. God said that the wages of sin is death. Because God cannot look upon sin you will surley pay the price for it. I am no better then you for I am still a sinner, but because I have repented and accepted the blood shed on the cross I no longer have to pay the debt for my sins, Jesus did that for me and for you already. This is where you hear the term "born again". For now you have eternal life through forgivness instead of death. You do have to accept Christ (be saved, ask for salvation) for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

So what is sin. Sin is what moves us further away from God. Sin is breaking Gods laws, comandments. If you accept Christ will you still sin? The answer is yes, we are still sinners. You become very aware when you are saved not to sin and as a Christian when you do you must repent. 

So that takes us to the question is Jesus God. The answer is yes. The Father (God) the son (Jesus) and the Holy Ghost are all one in the same. Jesus is God in the flesh. 

My quote to you was not meant as any kind of threat, I am pointing out what God considers sin. Each one of Gods commandments carry the same penelty. It is not like if God says well you broke #2 so you just get your ass kicked for that one, sin is sin.


----------



## SmokeyDopey

But but... what happened with "forgiveness"?


----------



## Jack92CH

Back to when you said "God did not create man to sin," Nuke. 

If God is truly omniscient, and I'm speaking hypothetically here, then he DID create man for the sole purpose of condemning him outright. By creating Satan he KNEW he was going to defy his rule, by creating Adam and Eve he KNEW they would be corrupted by Satan, and by creating his goofy rules he KNEW they would be broken and that he would have to punish his subjects. This loophole is huge. A perfect, all knowing being would not fuck up this badly.

The concept of a forgiving God goes right out the window when you realize that God built you "defective" on purpose. You were made to suffer for things over which you have no control, yet he promises "salvation" if you accept him as your lord and master?

The Biblical God is a sadomasochist.


----------



## shredless

Jack92CH said:


> The Biblical God is a sadomasochist.



Finally something I agree with


----------



## Georgiatec

I know this will ruffle a few feathers but, I think you'll find the earth, and all it's many varied species got along perfectly well for millions of years before a posse of pissed up prophets came up with dog...sorry, I mean the other dude. The fantasy that there was a band of whiter than white do gooders travelling around the middle east righting wrongs, curing ills, parting seas (I know, that was Moses...but he was plugged in the same amp) and transforming a packed lunch into 5000 fillet o' fish....need I go on, just doesn't stand up. People in those days were no different than today. They loved a good story. People were not as worldly aware then (even 50 years ago) as they are today and they had a lot more time on their hands...result really good stories that got embellished a bit (a lot) and ended up in a book...or several if you want count all the others.
The Dinosaurs actually had strong family groups and taught their young the right way to live their lives....i.e. to survive!!. Think I'm wrong....prove it. There is more tangible proof of what I have just supposed than there is of a single miracle. Remember that God made man in his image.....which is just about the type of egotistical crap you would expect from our species. Brilliant, yes, but flawed in so many ways.
Now I suppose some of you guys with more degrees than a thermometer will flame me for this...after all I only have 6 'o' levels, left school at 16 and drive a fork lift truck for a living. However I can see the wood through the trees. For all of you people looking to the heavens for answers, you are looking the wrong way...the answers are in the ground, can you dig it? (I know corny).


----------



## Username2

We have free will by design.

God did not create sin. God is holy and He would not create that which is contrary to His nature. Sinfulness is the opposite of holiness. It is lawlessness (1 John 3:4).

God created the conditions where free-will creatures would be able to make a choice between obedience and disobedience to God. This condition existed when God created an angel called Lucifer who was without sin yet, apparently, had free will. Lucifer chose to rebel against God and sin (Isaiah 14:12-15; Ezek. 28:13-15). Likewise, Adam and Eve, having been made by God without sin, listened to the devil and chose to sin against God (Gen. 3).

But God did not cause them to sin (James 1:13). In the freedom of their wills, each decided to rebel against God and sin entered the world (Rom. 5:12). God simply allowed the condition to exist where sin was possible.


----------



## SmokeyDopey

Lucifer seems like a cool guy


----------



## Username2

SmokeyDopey said:


> Lucifer seems like a cool guy



That is exactly what he wants you to think. But nothing could be further from the truth. I know nothing I say will change your mind but I would ask you to fully understand what your life and your soul will endure. He is not the boogy man, he is death and torment for eternity.


----------



## SmokeyDopey

nuke said:


> That is exactly what he wants you to think. But nothing could be further from the truth. I know nothing I say will change your mind but I would ask you to fully understand what your life and your soul will endure. He is not the boogy man, he is death and torment for eternity.


 
I'm cool with that


----------



## Jack92CH

nuke said:


> That is exactly what he wants you to think. But nothing could be further from the truth. I know nothing I say will change your mind but I would ask you to fully understand what your life and your soul will endure. He is not the boogy man, he is death and torment for eternity.



And God created him. God created Lucifer, Lucifer became evil and tempted man to sin. God knew this was going to happen, designed the scenario, and watched it play out. God is solely responsible for the devil, hell, and sin. He created them all.

How can you even be sure that the Bible you read was not a counterfeit written by Lucifer/Satan to confuse you and lead you astray? Isn't that their objective? I suppose you'll go digging for a passage within that same book to tell me otherwise, without even wondering about its validity.


----------



## Georgiatec

How shallow of the human race to think we can come up with all the answers in the last 10 seconds of History's day and write them in a book. Is there only me that can see the ironic commandment?. Faith IS bearing false witness. Nuke says he knows Jesus Christ....what personally?...if that 'aint bearing false witness I've never heard it.


----------



## Jack92CH

Agreed.


----------



## Adwex

nuke said:


> ........Any consensus here yet? Anyone of you repent and ask Jesus Christ for forgiveness and accept him as Lord and Savior?
> 
> Or have you all made enough arguments to convince yourselves that you are bigger and wiser then God and that he won't remember I single thought you had here. Or perhaps that science has a narrative and explanation for everything God says. Just asking.



Neither.


----------



## 6StringMoFo

There is no god!


----------



## Georgiatec

Adwex said:


> Neither.



Hey Ad!! looking at the location on your Avatar, you don't know where you are and you don't know where you're going


----------



## scat7s

as soon as lucifer was cast out from heaven, he was no longer lucifer. he is satan.

those who worship a luciferian doctrine, refuse to acknowledge that he is no longer lucifer. son of the morning, light bearer etc etc. he is not these things, he was only those things when he served God. this is part of the deception, or the misconception. 

there are some who suggest that lucifer had great contempt for man, along with the other fallen angels who now serve satan. and it is he who loves to create pain and suffering, b/c we as humans are not worthy of Gods love. and that satan, has taken as his task to prove it to God, that man is not worthy of his caring.

some of you guys make it a compelling thought, given your complete lack of respect for anothers beliefs, if not God himself.


----------



## Marshall Stack

I can't believe people are still posting (20 pages so far). It is highly unlikely that someone is going to be able to convert someone else to their views...


----------



## Username2

Georgiatec said:


> How shallow of the human race to think we can come up with all the answers in the last 10 seconds of History's day and write them in a book. Is there only me that can see the ironic commandment?. Faith IS bearing false witness. Nuke says he knows Jesus Christ....what personally?...if that 'aint bearing false witness I've never heard it.



Jesus speaks to me and I speak to him. So this is how I know him.

I have never seen Jesus physically but I know I will. I also know I have a place in heaven where I will be welcomed, God has promised this to all who accept him and the blood he shed for us. This gives me a peace that has changed my life. 

Why do you think I continue in this topic, to take shit from everyone (everyone has been civil), to make myself out to be some whacko. No, I simply want to share what I know to be the truth. If one person
had their eyes opened by any of the things I have said then it is a victory for God. God will speak to the hearts not me. 

I can say no matter how much hate would be spewed at me from any person I do it out of love. I fear no man, no demon, only thing I fear is standing at the foot of God and him saying, Go away for I never knew you. God tells me his ways are not my ways, and tells me to have faith. Thats all.


----------



## Buggs.Crosby

nuke said:


> Jesus speaks to me and I speak to him. So this is how I know him.
> 
> I have never seen Jesus physically but I know I will. I also know I have a place in heaven where I will be welcomed, God has promised this to all who accept him and the blood he shed for us. This gives me a peace that has changed my life.
> 
> Why do you think I continue in this topic, to take shit from everyone, to make myself out to be some whacko. No, I simply want to share what I know to be the truth. If one person
> had their eyes opened by any of the things I have said then it is a victory for God. God will speak to the hearts not me.
> 
> I can say no matter how much hate would be spewed at me from any person I do it out of love. I fear no man, no demon, only thing I fear is standing at the foot of God and him saying, Go away for I never knew you. God tells me his ways are not my ways, and tells me to have faith. Thats all.



All this crap and they let you buy guns.......and they say i have mental problems.....thus the Fucked up world we live in

P.S just what language does Jesus speak to you in?


----------



## scat7s

Marshall Stack said:


> I can't believe people are still posting (20 pages so far). It is highly unlikely that someone is going to be able to convert someone else to their views...


 

i dont think its about changing a persons views, as much as it is some food for thought, on both sides of the fence. 

exchanging ideas, that should be the objective, in my humble opinion, not that anyone asked for it. 

the stereotypes and disrespect for one another is the part that bothers me the most. and ive been guilty of it too, so dont interpret this as holier than thou please.


----------



## Marshall Stack

scat7s said:


> i dont think its about changing a persons views, as much as it is some food for thought, on both sides of the fence.
> 
> exchanging ideas, that should be the objective, in my humble opinion, not that anyone asked for it.
> 
> the stereotypes and disrespect for one another is the part that bothers me the most. and ive been guilty of it too, so dont interpret this as holier than thou please.


 
I'm not criticizing anybody (I hope nobody took it that way). I have my views and I would respect other people's views as long as they respected mine. Conversations like this can get mean...


----------



## Georgiatec

Marshall Stack said:


> I can't believe people are still posting (20 pages so far). It is highly unlikely that someone is going to be able to convert someone else to their views...



This shit has started wars, ended empires, turned man against man and fucked the world up for centuries....20 pages on a website is fuck all


----------



## Adwex

Georgiatec said:


> Hey Ad!! looking at the location on your Avatar, you don't know where you are and you don't know where you're going



Yeah, I'm a little disoriented lately...and there's lots and lots of things I don't know. The existence or nature of "God" is only one of them.


----------



## Georgiatec

Adwex said:


> Yeah, I'm a little disoriented lately...and there's lots and lots of things I don't know. The existence or nature of "God" is only one of them.



So long as you know how to play a 12 bar and make a Marshall wail...the rest becomes less important.


----------



## Jack92CH

nuke said:


> Jesus speaks to me and I speak to him. So this is how I know him.
> 
> I have never seen Jesus physically but I know I will. I also know I have a place in heaven where I will be welcomed, God has promised this to all who accept him and the blood he shed for us. This gives me a peace that has changed my life.
> 
> Why do you think I continue in this topic, to take shit from everyone (everyone has been civil), to make myself out to be some whacko. No, I simply want to share what I know to be the truth. If one person
> had their eyes opened by any of the things I have said then it is a victory for God. God will speak to the hearts not me.
> 
> I can say no matter how much hate would be spewed at me from any person I do it out of love. I fear no man, no demon, only thing I fear is standing at the foot of God and him saying, Go away for I never knew you. God tells me his ways are not my ways, and tells me to have faith. Thats all.



How do you know any of this? You know nothing more than any Muslim who claims to know with absolute certainty he will receive 72 virgins upon death, or any Hindu who knows that his soul is not in his body but that his body is in his soul and that he never truly dies. 

You have nothing to go on other than scripture, and nobody who had anything to do with the compilation of the Bible is alive to testify. Why do you believe it? Have you read the other so-called holy books of the world before you decided whichever version of the Bible was true?

How do you know YOUR version of the truth is the correct one?


----------



## shredless

I have watched my mother go from a semi normal person to a complete fucktard over the course of my lifetime.

It began with my father being a giant pussy asshole fuckknob into my mother being scared into the grace of god, dragging all of us children by our ears and using the churches scare tactics to make us terrified of the real world outside our door....to eventually becoming a pastor...a pastor who now has no church, no life, no family who likes her except the two motherfucking middle children who despite their being on welfare, visit to rape my parents of what little they have left. Yet she still preaches god and religion as its the only way...way to what? Nice life you have there, bitch!


----------



## Username2

Buggs.Crosby said:


> All this crap and they let you buy guns.......and they say i have mental problems.....thus the Fucked up world we live in
> 
> P.S just what language does Jesus speak to you in?


 
Yes I have a few guns, a have a squirrel problem on my land.

PS Jesus speaks to me through the holy spirit.


----------



## shredless

shredless said:


> I have watched my mother go from a semi normal person to a complete fucktard over the course of my lifetime.
> 
> It began with my father being a giant pussy asshole fuckknob into my mother being scared into the grace of god, dragging all of us children by our ears and using the churches scare tactics to make us terrified of the real world outside our door....to eventually becoming a pastor...a pastor who now has no church, no life, no family who likes her except the two motherfucking middle children who despite their being on welfare, visit to rape my parents of what little they have left. Yet she still preaches god and religion as its the only way...way to what? Nice life you have there, bitch!



And that is me trying to be somewhat restrained and nice


----------



## Jack92CH

Jesus and the holy spirit are the same thing. Using two different names for the same thing doesn't clarify anything. It's all worked out to be circular nonsense I guess. Once you're caught in the shit-storm, you can't get out.


----------



## Buggs.Crosby

nuke said:


> Yes I have a few guns, a have a squirrel problem on my land.
> 
> PS Jesus speaks to me through the holy spirit.



Did Jesus tell you to kill his creations?


----------



## scat7s

i dont think jesus 'created' squirrels...


----------



## Buggs.Crosby

scat7s said:


> i dont think jesus 'created' squirrels...



i thought all were God's creatures?


----------



## Username2

Buggs.Crosby said:


> Did Jesus tell you to kill his creations?


 
No silly, eat them....geez. Taste great with peanut butter.


----------



## Username2

Jack92CH said:


> Jesus and the holy spirit are the same thing. Using two different names for the same thing doesn't clarify anything. It's all worked out to be circular nonsense I guess. Once you're caught in the shit-storm, you can't get out.


 
I said God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are all one in the same, check it. God's real name is "I am"

Seriously I know I have been toying with you guys an the last couple of posts. Another member made a good point to me and I am going to take the advice and bow out. 

It was my intent in all my posts to give you my perspective as to what the bible says and what it all means. There are many things that can confuse us, I was no different until I hit rock bottom and upon having Christ in my life now it has all been something very life changing for the better. 

Apologize sincerely if my posts offended anyone, but this stuff is too important and real to sugar coat it. Although I am beyond offended at the mocking of God I do understand the world we live in today and who is in it. I think for the most part everyone has been patient and civil. 

God Bless, Nuke


----------



## Papus

There is another lesser known faith which teaches that the Abrahamic god is actually an imposter, a demi-god placed in charge of the earth by the real supreme god-mother of the universe - the so-called "Demiurge".
The Demiurge created the universe and left Yahweh in charge to look after humanity.
Yahweh was a sort of teenage brat demigod and decided HE should be God, so he proceeded to tell humanity that HE was the one true creator god and HE alone should be worshipped and feared by man - this made the Demiurge very sad and she retreated from the earth because man had believed Yahweh's bullshit.

I find this VERY interesting - if even 0.000000001% of it is true it means the three main religions of the world are based on a LYING BULLSHITTER of a demigod!


----------



## Papus

nuke said:


> I said God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are all one in the same, check it. God's real name is "I am"
> 
> Seriously I know I have been toying with you guys an the last couple of posts. Another member made a good point to me and I am going to take the advice and bow out.
> 
> It was my intent in all my posts to give you my perspective as to what the bible says and what it all means. There are many things that can confuse us, I was no different until I hit rock bottom and upon having Christ in my life now it has all been something very life changing for the better.
> 
> Apologize sincerely if my posts offended anyone, but this stuff is too important and real to sugar coat it. Although I am beyond offended at the mocking of God I do understand the world we live in today and who is in it. I think for the most part everyone has been patient and civil.
> 
> God Bless, Nuke



I applaud you, Nuke.
All too often theists make the mistake of trying to converse with non-believers using the language and processes of rhetoric and logic.
When these inevitably fail the theist is forced to turn to intellectually dishonest tactics such as special pleading, circular reasoning and ad hominem - a constant shifting of the goalposts to suit the shaky edifice of their arguments.
Nuke has done none of these things, instead giving only the personal example of the transforming power of faith in his life - let me assure you that THIS is the only way to appeal to the mind of a thinker.

The language of faith and the language of reason are almost totally incomprehensible to each other.
Only when a person learns and understands both systems of thought can they make a sound decision for themselves as to where the truth sits.


----------



## Jack92CH

Papus said:


> There is another lesser known faith which teaches that the Abrahamic god is actually an imposter, a demi-god placed in charge of the earth by the real supreme god-mother of the universe - the so-called "Demiurge".
> The Demiurge created the universe and left Yahweh in charge to look after humanity.
> Yahweh was a sort of teenage brat demigod and decided HE should be God, so he proceeded to tell humanity that HE was the one true creator god and HE alone should be worshipped and feared by man - this made the Demiurge very sad and she retreated from the earth because man had believed Yahweh's bullshit.
> 
> I find this VERY interesting - if even 0.000000001% of it is true it means the three main religions of the world are based on a LYING BULLSHITTER of a demigod!



Anyone who can comprehend what they read understands that the God character of the Abrahamic religions is an utterly imperfect, lying, sadistic prick.


----------



## Buggs.Crosby

nuke said:


> No silly, eat them....geez. Taste great with peanut butter.



How much is left after a 50 cal shot?


----------



## Buggs.Crosby

nuke said:


> No silly, eat them....geez. Taste great with peanut butter.



So you are taking the lords name in vane?


----------



## Adwex

nuke said:


> No silly, eat them....geez. Taste great with peanut butter.



Dismissive.


----------



## Hollowbody

Papus said:


> I find this VERY interesting - if even 0.000000001% of it is true it means the three main religions of the world are based on a LYING BULLSHITTER of a demigod!




Either there is a god or there isin't, make up your mind.


----------



## Hollowbody

shredless said:


> I have watched my mother go from a semi normal person to a complete fucktard over the course of my lifetime.
> 
> It began with my father being a giant pussy asshole fuckknob into my mother being scared into the grace of god, dragging all of us children by our ears and using the churches scare tactics to make us terrified of the real world outside our door....to eventually becoming a pastor...a pastor who now has no church, no life, no family who likes her except the two motherfucking middle children who despite their being on welfare, visit to rape my parents of what little they have left. Yet she still preaches god and religion as its the only way...way to what? Nice life you have there, bitch!





So have you expressed these feelings to your mother or anyone else in your family or are you just shitting your mommy daddy issues all over marshallforum just to get a good drama jizz going?


----------



## Buggs.Crosby

nuke said:


> No silly, eat them....geez. Taste great with peanut butter.





Adwex said:


> Dismissive.



I always thought the proper term was "Hypocrite".....apparently that's what most people would say also

Urban Dictionary: hypocrite


----------



## StootMonster

delete


----------



## scat7s

Papus said:


> There is another lesser known faith which teaches that the Abrahamic god is actually an imposter, a demi-god placed in charge of the earth by the real supreme god-mother of the universe - the so-called "Demiurge".
> The Demiurge created the universe and left Yahweh in charge to look after humanity.
> Yahweh was a sort of teenage brat demigod and decided HE should be God, so he proceeded to tell humanity that HE was the one true creator god and HE alone should be worshipped and feared by man - this made the Demiurge very sad and she retreated from the earth because man had believed Yahweh's bullshit.
> 
> I find this VERY interesting - if even 0.000000001% of it is true it means the three main religions of the world are based on a LYING BULLSHITTER of a demigod!


 
thats interesting, on a similar note, some interpret the old testament as worship of lucifer, not God. im not going to say this well, but there were references to little L lord, and big L Lord. basically in agreement with what you just said papus, that the old testament is a deception. and that the new testament was Gods countermeasure to the old testament. to set the story straight, as it were. 

my head is spinning, i know i can come across as sounding like i think i know it all, i dont. its mostly my sloppy language that creates that effect, i think, but regardless, at every level of our existence we are continually decieved, in some way it seems. its quite frustrating, and insulting.


----------



## Jack92CH

scat7s said:


> thats interesting, on a similar note, some interpret the old testament as worship of lucifer, not God. im not going to say this well, but there were references to little L lord, and big L Lord. basically in agreement with what you just said papus, that the old testament is a deception. and that the new testament was Gods countermeasure to the old testament. to set the story straight, as it were.
> 
> my head is spinning, i know i can come across as sounding like i think i know it all, i dont. its mostly my sloppy language that creates that effect, i think, but regardless, at every level of our existence we are continually decieved, in some way it seems. its quite frustrating, and insulting.



"To be is to deceive."


----------



## SteveGangi

The loony predicted the end of the world or the rapture or something. He sold books and made money off it. He's been wrong before and made money off it before. He will do it again, I guarantee.

There is a huge difference between faith and stupidity. Believing in that money grubbing fraud is stupidity.


----------



## j2112c

nuke said:


> Jesus speaks to me and I speak to him. So this is how I know him.
> 
> I have never seen Jesus physically but I know I will. I also know I have a place in heaven where I will be welcomed, God has promised this to all who accept him and the blood he shed for us. This gives me a peace that has changed my life.
> 
> Why do you think I continue in this topic, to take shit from everyone (everyone has been civil), to make myself out to be some whacko. No, I simply want to share what I know to be the truth. If one person
> had their eyes opened by any of the things I have said then it is a victory for God. God will speak to the hearts not me.
> 
> I can say no matter how much hate would be spewed at me from any person I do it out of love. I fear no man, no demon, only thing I fear is standing at the foot of God and him saying, Go away for I never knew you. God tells me his ways are not my ways, and tells me to have faith. Thats all.




YOU have never seen Jesus!
WHAT?

Where have you been! I thought EVERYONE had seen jesus.... I saw him at Castle Donnington in '88 he had a cracking beard and played a furry explorer... 

He was a dirty, dirty man he sang about sex and a whore house called La Grange. I did not notice any holes in his hands, but a fair number of his followers seemed to have holes in their heads.

I just love it when you get a religious nut.. they are soooOOOooo funny.... which brings us back to ..peanut butter.

Confirmed rabble rouser thread.
CHECK√


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## Australian

CHECK CHECK√


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## Ascension

StootMonster said:


> I think it's pretty safe to conclude that the "so help me God" section started off not as a requirement for anything, but basically (and since back then Christianity was the framework of most of the things our Constitution was built upon) it was a something that made sure the person taking the oath understood the seriousness of what they were saying, because nobody wanted to make an oath to God himself and break it.
> 
> Since then, thing have obviously changed. But like most things, to understand it, you have to understand the context of the situation around the event and the words to fully get the 'why'.



You got it.
This is from our First President George Washington on the subject.


> George Washington
> "Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of duties of men and citizens.... let it simply be asked, where is the security for property, for reputation, for life , if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths which are the instruments of investigation in courts of justice?"


 Like it or not this Country was founded by men who were deeply and profoundly influenced by Personal faith. In there own words. 


> Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people .It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.
> John Adams





> "The sum of it all is, if we would most truly enjoy the gift of Heaven, let us become a virtuous people; then shall we both deserve and enjoy it. While on the other hand , if we are universally vicious and debauched in our manners, though the form of our Constitution carries the face of the most exalted freedom, we shall in reality be the most abject slaves."
> Samuel Adams





> "And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with his wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that his justice cannot sleep forever." -Thomas Jefferson, 1781


 And then finally.



> Thomas Jefferson
> " On every question of construction, (let us)carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, conform to the probable one in which it was passed."



Could THIS be why so many atheist demand freedom FROM Religion in our society today and not Freedom of?? Honestly how can you guys be SO vicious at times towards any expression or mention of Personal Belief from those who are of Faith? Why do you feel SO threatened that some of you attempt to prohibit any expression by those of Faith in the Public arena of something you say doesn't even exist. I simply can not comprehend this  ???


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## Jack92CH

WHY is this thread back?


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## Ascension

nuke said:


> We have free will by design.
> 
> God did not create sin. God is holy and He would not create that which is contrary to His nature. Sinfulness is the opposite of holiness. It is lawlessness (1 John 3:4).
> 
> God created the conditions where free-will creatures would be able to make a choice between obedience and disobedience to God. This condition existed when God created an angel called Lucifer who was without sin yet, apparently, had free will. Lucifer chose to rebel against God and sin (Isaiah 14:12-15; Ezek. 28:13-15). Likewise, Adam and Eve, having been made by God without sin, listened to the devil and chose to sin against God (Gen. 3).
> 
> But God did not cause them to sin (James 1:13). In the freedom of their wills, each decided to rebel against God and sin entered the world (Rom. 5:12). God simply allowed the condition to exist where sin was possible.


 What most do not understand is the word SIN. It's not necessarily doing something horrible it's an archers term that means missing the target or the mark. If there is a creator and was a plan it's about missing the mark and target of that plan for your own life. This is MUCH different than the concept that most have of what the term means.
Think of God as the creator/programmer of a complex Game the Matrix concept if you will. All possible contingencies are written in the program but what actually happens during the game depends on how you and others "play" the game. The Bible is simply an instruction manual that guides you, if you refuse to use it and still play the "game" you loose the advantage of having the creators guidance.


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## Clammy

j2112c said:


> YOU have never seen Jesus!
> WHAT?
> 
> Where have you been! I thought EVERYONE had seen jesus.... I saw him at Castle Donnington in '88 he had a cracking beard and played a furry explorer...
> 
> He was a dirty, dirty man he sang about sex and a whore house called La Grange. I did not notice any holes in his hands, but a fair number of his followers seemed to have holes in their heads.
> 
> I just love it when you get a religious nut.. they are soooOOOooo funny.... which brings us back to ..peanut butter.
> 
> Confirmed rabble rouser thread.
> CHECK√



I found jesus... he was hiding behind my couch, so I kicked the fucker out! 

I think he went back to Mexico, but I can't be sure... 

Cheers!


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## j2112c

Clammy said:


> I found jesus... he was hiding behind my couch, so I kicked the fucker out!
> 
> I think he went back to Mexico, but I can't be sure...
> 
> Cheers!


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## John 14:6

JayCM800 said:


> According to this, May 21, 2011 - Noah Knew, WeCanKnow! Christ's Return on Judgment Day: May 21, 2011 the date of the rapture of believers will take place on May 21, 2011 and that God will destroy this world on October 21, 2011
> 
> ...So i just want to say goodbye to all of you leaving for heaven!


 Any nut who says he knows when Jesus is coming back is just another nut who does not know his bible. If this is the Harold Camping thing then that is even more of a joke. The guy is a cult leader. This is what Jesus said:

*Matthew 24:36*

New King James Version (NKJV)

*No One Knows the Day or Hour*


36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven,[a] but My Father only.*Footnotes:*

Matthew 24:36 NU-Text adds _nor the Son._


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## Georgiatec

Don't know, don't care, don't want to know and never will...goodnight and sleep well  BTW....when's the next rupture?

John.....bring on the sleeping kitten


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## j2112c

Georgiatec said:


> Don't know, don't care, don't want to know and never will...goodnight and sleep well  BTW....when's the next rupture?
> 
> John.....bring on the sleeping kitten



   
The next rupture!  

Sleeping Kitten you say?
ABSOLUTELY!










A PC... made for comfort in the home or office...


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## Georgiatec

That's me at 7am in the morning after my 12 hour nightshift.


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## j2112c

Georgiatec said:


> That's me at 7am in the morning after my 12 hour nightshift.



Bloody Hell... Man U 4 - 1 Arsenal... I think I am going to swith Radio 5 Live off... and it is not finished yet!

EDIt: the goals just keep going in - bloody Mancs.... bah humbug!


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## TwinACStacks

I just know that you motherfuckers are gonna burn....

Happy Flambe'.....

 TWIN


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## Georgiatec

j2112c said:


> Bloody Hell... Man U 8 - 2 Arsenal... I think I am going to swith Radio 5 Live off... and it is not finished yet!
> 
> EDIt: the goals just keep going in - bloody Mancs.... bah humbug!



Fixed it for u mate.


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## j2112c

Georgiatec said:


> Fixed it for u mate.



Yeah... cheers... appreciated... like a hole in the head....

What a final score eh? You must be so chuffed with that scoreline... 

Jesus..... and that brings us nicely back to the thread....


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