# Considering a Ceriatone Plexi 51



## What?

Info, manual, and layout is over here: http://www.ceriatone.com/british-style-plexi51-access/

Never having owned a plexi, I guess I'm wondering how useful those switching options would be to me. The manual says this about the general design:



> Ceriatone offers the classic Plexi 50 model in several different variations, to reflect the historical differences of the circuit, namely from ‟67,68, 69, 70, and later 70s, as well as the 50W Bass version as well. Other than the above, we also offer the JTM50, which is the early Plexi circuit, but with tube rectification. Over the years, we have received many requests for mods, to incorporate a feature from a specific year, onto another. So we thought that it might perhaps be a great idea to come up with an amplifier that can have as many Plexi features inside of one amp.



Other than the circuit switching options, I think the PPIMV and buffered effects loop look like useful features, although I'm not sure what type of PPIMV this amp has, how good it will be for playing lower volume when required, and how transparent the effects loop will be. Another thing is that I haven't found any well recorded demos of any of the Ceriatone plexi style amps.


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## What?

If I end up getting this amp, I will also end up ordering a quad of Weber 1225's at a later date. I've been on the fence on doing so for a long time, but I have read lots of good things on that speaker at the metro forum.


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## South Park

Have you played one


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## What?

South Park said:


> Have you played one



Nope, and I'm guessing that no one else here has either. I would be the guinea pig.


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## BanditPanda

Awful lot of switches on that mother but it sure is imo a great idea.
Cork sniffers paradise.
Ceriatone products have a very good rep.
Would offer that you would not be disappointed. (I have not played thru a Ceriatone product)
Didn't see the price of that beast though?
BP


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## What?

BanditPanda said:


> Awful lot of switches on that mother but it sure is imo a great idea.
> Cork sniffers paradise.
> Ceriatone products have a very good rep.
> Would offer that you would not be disappointed. (I have not played thru a Ceriatone product)
> Didn't see the price of that beast though?
> BP



If I get one it will be through Guitar Amps USA (shipping is included in the price). $1200 for a well-built handwired plexi style amp with switchable rectifier, PPIMV, buffered effects loop, and the plethora of switching options. http://guitarampsusa.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=61&product_id=175

But yea, it might turn out that I would do more cork sniffing than playing, might not like the PPIMV, maybe the effects loop is transparent or not.


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## South Park

I would buy direct from Ceriatone . Something about this does not look right


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## What?

South Park said:


> I would buy direct from Ceriatone . Something about this does not look right



Search around. Other people talk about using them on other forums. It seems that they have some sort of deal worked out for taking U.S. orders.


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## BanditPanda

Southie may be right. Best to check with Ceriatone direct to see if they have an authorized dealer in the U.S.
At 1204.00 for the assembled head is perhaps too good to be true.
BP


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## Buzzard

It’s legit


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## What?

BanditPanda said:


> Southie may be right. Best to check with Ceriatone direct to see if they have an authorized dealer in the U.S.
> At 1204.00 for the assembled head is perhaps too good to be true.
> BP



They are listed as an authorized dealer on Ceriatone's site: http://www.ceriatone.com/dealers-techs/

And yes, it does look to be a good deal for U.S. customers. I can understand the caution given how much other hand-wired amps cost.


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## South Park

That is a good price but it is not a complete amp . Tubes and shell are extra . When all is done it is around 1.600 dollars. It’s all good if it’s what you want .


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## BanditPanda

South Park said:


> That is a good price but it is not a complete amp . Tubes and shell are extra . When all is done it is around 1.600 dollars. It’s all good if it’s what you want .




Amp Head II - $1,204
(Fully working chassis installed in a head cabinet. Tubes included.)
BP


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## What?

Hopefully that stuff is settled. And enough people have given nods across various forums on Ceriatone component and build quality that I'm not worried about that side of things.

I'm curious about any thoughts on the amp design. I'm typically of the mind that less is more when it comes to guitar gear. This thing has switches galore for stepping through the years of plexi changes and supposedly also covers the JTM50 circuit (the early one with tube rectifier). But it all looks to be cleanly laid out and might make for a good platform for exploring plexi style amp changes.


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## BanditPanda

Based on hand wiring and Ceriatone's known quality factor imo it's worth a shot.
I don't know what the return policy is.
BP


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## South Park

If that amp gives you the sound you want and keeps you from buying more amps it is worth the money .


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## ampmadscientist

What? said:


> If I end up getting this amp, I will also end up ordering a quad of Weber 1225's at a later date. I've been on the fence on doing so for a long time, but I have read lots of good things on that speaker at the metro forum.



If you want a master volume, you want a 2204 not a plexi preamp.
You want the high gain preamp. 2 hole input.


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## ampeq

What? said:


> Hopefully that stuff is settled. And enough people have given nods across various forums on Ceriatone component and build quality that I'm not worried about that side of things.
> 
> I'm curious about any thoughts on the amp design. I'm typically of the mind that less is more when it comes to guitar gear. This thing has switches galore for stepping through the years of plexi changes and supposedly also covers the JTM50 circuit (the early one with tube rectifier). But it all looks to be cleanly laid out and might make for a good platform for exploring plexi style amp changes.


Buy from the usa guy, no problem at all. I did and he was great, ANY question you have he will either know or call Nik and call you right back. For your needs I would call Nik direct and tell him what your after, what you want and would expect. He will steer you right, maybe even a semi-custom amp, but you will get a first rate system. I like the modded Plexi line up, and man do they work good, but you may need something else. Call both guys first, ask a lot of question, they don't mind at all. If I can help feel free to PM me.


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## What?

ampmadscientist said:


> If you want a master volume, you want a 2204 not a plexi preamp.
> You want the high gain preamp. 2 hole input.



What I have seen others mention using a PPIMV with a 4 holer is that they use it to knock off a bit of volume (not alot), before using any attenuation. That is what I intended to do. I also saw lots of mentions that a 2204 doesn't sound as open as a 1987. One of the main tones I'm looking for out of an amp is old school AC/DC clean'ish breakup (High Voltage) before they started adding a lot of gain to their sound.



ampeq said:


> Buy from the usa guy, no problem at all. I did and he was great, ANY question you have he will either know or call Nik and call you right back. For your needs I would call Nik direct and tell him what your after, what you want and would expect. He will steer you right, maybe even a semi-custom amp, but you will get a first rate system. I like the modded Plexi line up, and man do they work good, but you may need something else. Call both guys first, ask a lot of question, they don't mind at all. If I can help feel free to PM me.



I emailed Nik recently telling him that I was looking for an amp that would get the sound of a 1987. Talking to him is what got me looking at the 51.


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## What?

ampeq said:


> Buy from the usa guy, no problem at all. I did and he was great, ANY question you have he will either know or call Nik and call you right back.



I meant to mention this before. If ordering from guitarampsusa, be sure that you want exactly what is being sold, nothing customized. If you want something cusomized, order directly from Nick. I had considered shortly after ordering having a switchable 2204 mode added to the Plexi 51, but Nick said that the deal with the lower price through dealers is that they get a discount due to taking any calls, emails, support questions, and him not having to do back and forth correspondence about customizations. So if you order an amp through a dealer, don't expect Nick to handle any of that stuff. But he was reluctantly still very accommodating and entertained the possibility of adding a 2204 mode and shot me a price on it, although it sounded like it was a hassle on his end figuring out which specific order it would have applied to due to not ordering directly through Ceriatone. In the end though, I decided to keep my order as is to find out what this already modded Plexi type amp will do. And it sounds like adding a switchable 2204 mode wouldn't be a huge deal if I want that later.


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## jchrisf

I'm looking to get a Ceriatone 2202 but if I were looking for a Plexi type amp I would get the Brunetti Pleximan


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## TH52

I know this is an older thread, but I’m curious... Does anyone own the Plexi 51 All Access? Has anyone played thru it? I have one on order & was hoping for some feedback to help manage my expectations. I hope to have mine by early October & I will post a review once I have a chance to go thru it. In the meantime, I have their 2202HW on order as well. Any comments on either amp would be most appreciated. 
Cheers!


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## ampeq

What? said:


> Info, manual, and layout is over here: http://www.ceriatone.com/british-style-plexi51-access/
> 
> Never having owned a plexi, I guess I'm wondering how useful those switching options would be to me. The manual says this about the general design:
> 
> 
> 
> Other than the circuit switching options, I think the PPIMV and buffered effects loop look like useful features, although I'm not sure what type of PPIMV this amp has, how good it will be for playing lower volume when required, and how transparent the effects loop will be. Another thing is that I haven't found any well recorded demos of any of the Ceriatone plexi style amps.


Last I knew the buff. loop was the one Metro used. It is supposed to be a very good one and will be in my next Ceriatone amp.


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## Buzzard

Idk but I want one.


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## What?

TH52 said:


> I know this is an older thread, but I’m curious... Does anyone own the Plexi 51 All Access? Has anyone played thru it? I have one on order & was hoping for some feedback to help manage my expectations. I hope to have mine by early October & I will post a review once I have a chance to go thru it. In the meantime, I have their 2202HW on order as well. Any comments on either amp would be most appreciated.
> Cheers!



I'll post about it after the thing arrives and I get a chance to play it. I had ordered it just 5 days after starting this thread. Expect to wait a while.

I can't say anything yet about the sound of the amp, but in terms of construction, features, and price, buying this amp made much more sense to me than anything else available, new or used, or even in kit form.


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## Buzzard

Please do. If it gets early EVH tones and gain levels I m in.


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## What?

Buzzard said:


> Please do. If it gets early EVH tones and gain levels I m in.



I wonder how much of his early tone was the amp, the speakers, and the variac thing.

Anyway, sitting at 106 days so far, or 15 weeks and 1 day.


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## malice95

TH52 said:


> I know this is an older thread, but I’m curious... Does anyone own the Plexi 51 All Access? Has anyone played thru it? I have one on order & was hoping for some feedback to help manage my expectations. I hope to have mine by early October & I will post a review once I have a chance to go thru it. In the meantime, I have their 2202HW on order as well. Any comments on either amp would be most appreciated.
> Cheers!



Nice I got a 2204 and a Plexi51 on order from Nick. Both should be here late Oct/Early Nov. Waiting sucks. Hopefully I get to enjoy your review before mine arrives.


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## Buzzard

What? said:


> I wonder how much of his early tone was the amp, the speakers, and the variac thing.
> 
> Anyway, sitting at 106 days so far, or 15 weeks and 1 day.


That’s a trail you DO NOT want to go down ! Lol. Close enough is good for me.


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## What?

Buzzard said:


> That’s a trail you DO NOT want to go down ! Lol. Close enough is good for me.



I think his tone was great for his style, but I'm not that sort of player. But as a younger guitar player, I remember hearing You Really Got Me and thinking that the richness of his tone (tons of upper harmonics, without tons gain) minus the ambient effects would have been just about perfect for the sort of stuff I was playing back then. I guess that rich top end was due to the JBL's, not the greenbacks.


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## What?

What? said:


> I'll post about it after the thing arrives and I get a chance to play it.



I contacted Nik about the status of my order. Looks like it's going to be another couple of weeks or so still before my amp gets here, hopefully shipping this coming weekend. That would put it at arriving 19-20 weeks from the date of ordering. And that is assuming that there isn't any holdup during shipping. If anyone is thinking of ordering lately, I hope you have a healthy dose of patience.


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## 2203xman

What? said:


> If I get one it will be through Guitar Amps USA (shipping is included in the price). $1200 for a well-built handwired plexi style amp with switchable rectifier, PPIMV, buffered effects loop, and the plethora of switching options. http://guitarampsusa.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=61&product_id=175
> 
> But yea, it might turn out that I would do more cork sniffing than playing, might not like the PPIMV, maybe the effects loop is transparent or not.


What is the advantage of ordering through guitar amps USA?Just curious,because I too am looking at ordering a Ceriatone amp.


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## iwuk78

2203xman said:


> What is the advantage of ordering through guitar amps USA?Just curious,because I too am looking at ordering a Ceriatone amp.



Scott at Guitar Amps USA basically has a deal with Nik, he sells the amps through his site, at a lower cost to us. But it's essentially the same as ordering from Nik. The order goes to Nik, and is shipped to you from Nik. I spoke to Scott on the phone as I recently ordered an All Access 101 and had some questions about the process (Nik also confirmed he had the order as I had also emailed him to ask about the user manual)


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## What?

2203xman said:


> What is the advantage of ordering through guitar amps USA?Just curious,because I too am looking at ordering a Ceriatone amp.



You essentially save the shipping cost. Keep in mind that if you want something that strays at all from a standard model, you should order directly from Ceriatone because Nik won't have your order info otherwise, and he is giving dealers a price break so as not to have to deal with customizations. If you want a model as is, it's probably worth saving the shipping cost by ordering from a dealer.

By the way, I got an email from GuitarAmpsUSA that my amp shipped yesterday. I'm updating here so that others know something about what times to expect during this corona thing. My order took 17 weeks and 4 days to ship. I'll update once more when it arrives. UPS tracking says that it will be here in a few days (9/14/2020), but I think it is likely overly optimistic to expect a package from Malaysia, going through China, to arrive at a U.S. address in only a few days.


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## iwuk78

Appreciate the info What? Looking forward to hearing about your amp once you try it.

I'll update this post with info on mine too, whenever I have info... Will be a while though!


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## 2203xman

Wow Quite a wait,but I think these amps are a great value,and who knows what the future holds for over seas shipping.The time to buy might be now.


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## 2203xman

I ordered the plexi 51 from Guitar amps USA.I guess it will be a Christmas present if mine takes 17 weeks.


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## What?

What? said:


> UPS tracking says that it will be here in a few days (9/14/2020), but I think it is likely overly optimistic to expect a package from Malaysia, going through China, to arrive at a U.S. address in only a few days.



I guess I'm wrong on that. Shipping looks to be quick.


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## iwuk78

What? said:


> I guess I'm wrong on that. Shipping looks to be quick.



That's Awesome.


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## ampeq

What? said:


> I guess I'm wrong on that. Shipping looks to be quick.
> 
> View attachment 79188


I think my Chupa was here in 3 day's from the time it shipped.


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## What?

It did show up today while I was at work. It will be tomorrow before I can check it out.


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## What?

ampeq said:


> I think my Chupa was here in 3 day's from the time it shipped.



That's damn fast shipping. Too bad this corona thing is holding up getting the things built and out the door right now. Nik also said that they got behind because an influx of orders on top of a shutdown due to corona.


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## What?

I got to put in a couple of hours of playing with the Plexi 51 today, mostly configured for JTM50 settings according to the manual and with a humbucker loaded guitar. Plenty of gain on tap for the stuff that I play (except the very occasional metal reminiscing). I would say that it well covers blues, classic rock, grunge territory in terms of gain and tone. It has more gain than I thought it would when cranked up.

One down point to get out of the way. The painted expanded metal used for the vents has a pretty strong spray paint smell to it, which I noticed when I pulled the amp from the box and while playing today. That will likely settle down over time, but it's worth mentioning. Powder coating would have been a better choice here. That aside...

My overall initial impression with the tone and character. Let me say first that I have never owned a non-master volume Marshall type amp, so it's going to take some getting used to for sure. And the cab I'm using is an old Peavey MS412 loaded with G12K-85's, which are pretty hefty and neutral sounding and don't breakup with any amp I have used this cab with so far. And I think the Plexi 51 is loaded with JJ's throughout. I haven't pulled the back panel yet to check the preamp tubes, but I did see JJ power and rectifier tubes. So for comparison, when I first plugged into my vintage 65 Super Reverb, I was knocked out at the first few chords. Just BAM. Take my money. I'm not getting that sort of impression from this amp initially. It sounds good but without any of the typical salesman style descriptors. I also haven't given it a run with my strat yet, which is my main squeeze with Fender amps. I think speakers and tubes will make a big difference here, which I will find out soon enough. Sounds pretty good, but no vintage magic as is.

The Bright switch is very useful and has the biggest impact of all other switches so far. With that switch at the brightest setting, when rolling my guitar volume down the brightness stays about the same. It's going to take some time to suss out the effects of the various switches and combinations. Switching some of them alone is pretty subtle so far. I was expecting a big difference when switching out the tone stack, and it did have a significant audible difference but it isn't as big as I thought it would be. The tube/solid state rectifier switch has a difference in feel of course, feeling a little spongier when switched to tube, but it isn't a giant difference.

I did some back and forth with a Weber Mass 200 attenuator and the PPIMV too. The PPIMV better retains the lows and highs by quite a bit, where the attenuator rolls off the highs alot and flattens the lows. The side effects of using the attenuator are alot more noticeable with this amp than with my DSL50. At lowest PPIMV settings I perceive the sound to be a bit edgier and puffier in the lowest frequencies (not overly so) and maybe a bit gainier, but nothing that I couldn't compensate with the tone stack and channel volume controls. I also tried the half power switch (pentode/triode) mixed with different combinations of the PPIMV and attenuator, which wasn't a giant difference in tone and character to my ears so far, but it does seem useful for knocking off some volume in combination with the PPIMV or attenuator.

The bass is on the vintage looser side. Highs get as bright as anyone would want. Mids are definitely there, much more so than the green channel on my DSL50.

I'll post some more in a few days when I have a day off along with an initial audio clip or three. Just wanted to give some first impressions. Gotta be a turkey and go to worky.


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## iwuk78

Thanks for the write up What? Definitely a lot to explore on the amp.


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## 2203xman

Thanks for the info.Nik confirmed my order today,and said he would build it asap.I am looking forward to this amp.A NMV type amp takes a bit of trial to find what suits you best.I usually go with the attenuator and just crank it to 7 or so.I like the natural plexi drive best.If it's like the original it will need some volume to come alive.Now comes the wait.


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## What?

Some thoughts this morning at low volume. PPIMV at 6-10, attenuator at 2 (out of 10, where higher is louder), channel volume at 7.

I thought that I heard some tube rattle yesterday, but the amp was up so loud most of the time that I wasn't sure. Today at low volume and with fresh ears, I'm definitely hearing some prominent tube rattle, particularly when playing D notes. I would have thought that even at this price point any rattling tubes wouldn't have shipped in a new amp. *Update next day: I'm not 100% positive today that this was tube rattle. I need to get the amp in another room away from my tools and small parts to be sure. *Another update: It wasn't tube rattle. It was a set of drill bits rattling against one another.

I'll be playing this thing throughout the day at various volumes, but I'm keeping it down for now so as not to piss off any late sleeping neighbors. At this volume (keeping in mind the above settings, which is giving about shouting volume), the amp is sounding pretty closed and reedy without any real old school character (see post #57), alot like other clone amps that I have heard and tried over the years, be it Fender tweed style or Marshall style. It's not the speakers, and it's probably not the tubes either. I will try a couple of different preamp tubes on my day off, but I don't want to get into fiddling with that today. *** Also, it could be the new operator. 

I put a patch cable into the loop to see if the sound changes. With the cable in and switching the loop on, there is a volume difference of probably a couple of db. Just above noticeable really. The overall sound seemed to stay the same.

Still noticing that spray paint smell this morning. The amp has been sittng overnight in my workshed.

I'm sitting out there jamming a bit. It wouldn't hurt to go ahead and grab my portable recorder and put an sm57 on it. It won't be an ideal or polished recorded sound for sure, but it would better than nothing for now instead of all blabbing.


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## What?

A sound clip of some shed noodling (details below): https://app.box.com/s/pdh4zfawg9iv9ch9u6odrb3od1kvr5e8

Ceriatone Plexi 51, PPIMV full, treble channel full (bass channel off)
Weber Mass 200 attenuator set at 2 (no treble compensation), above shouting volume
Peavey MS412 VTM cab with G12K-85 speakers
SM57 on the grill, to the side of the dust cap, into a Zoom portable recorder
Recorded in a workshed
Mono recording normalized to bring up the volume only, no other processing
Guitar is a Charvel mahogany body and neck, low output alnico II pickups
The only change throughout is the guitar volume
I'm sitting just off center of the cab pretty close to the mic stand, which is why you can hear the drum throne squeaking

And a dolled up stereo version for those who like that sort of thing: https://app.box.com/s/6hqh1uaf5v7j3orc8j8thg8tlak2uyg6


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## What?

Some cosmetic things that I would change to this amp. I already mentioned above the painted expanded metal (I think the color should match via gold too, not the current silver). The knobs are on the lightweight side. Not terribly bad, but definitely lighter than standard Marshall issue. The big gold piping is kind of arts/crafty glittery looking. The screws for the corner protectors are silver. Black would better blend in. The tolex is on the lighter side of thickness. Overall the head cab is pretty ok, and just changing the silver corner protector screws for black, the silver painted expanded metal for gold, and the glittery piping would be a good cosmetic improvement. Going further for high durability would be the tolex and knobs. Further still would be removing the corner protectors and quarter rounding the front and rear cab perimeters.


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## What?

For those guys waiting on your Plexi 51, I did a search to see if there is any other recordings out there. This guy has a few on his channel at low volume:


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## What?

My impression today is that the Plexi 51 is a cool amp. I think it must have a leg well into plexi Bass spec though with it's loose'ish bass. Kind of tweed'ish in that way. But what do I know?. Here is another builder's bass spec amp for comparison.



And a Marshall vintage model (playing starts after 1:40).


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## Buzzard

What? said:


> Some cosmetic things that I would change to this amp. I already mentioned above the painted expanded metal (I think the color should match via gold too, not the current silver). The knobs are on the lightweight side. Not terribly bad, but definitely lighter than standard Marshall issue. The big gold piping is kind of arts/crafty glittery looking. The screws for the corner protectors are silver. Black would better blend in. The tolex is on the lighter side of thickness. Overall the head cab is pretty ok, and just changing the silver corner protector screws for black, the silver painted expanded metal for gold, and the glittery piping would be a good cosmetic improvement. Going further for high durability would be the tolex and knobs. Further still would be removing the corner protectors and quarter rounding the front and rear cab perimeters.


I’m kind of a perfectionist and can see those things you mentioned a while ago. The Rolex just looks off to me. Thin and not the right pebble style. Metal corners look cheap and silver screws? Really. Knobs definitely aren’t Marshall style bu whatever


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## 2203xman

Is your clip with the tube rec or ss?My Marshall 1987x is a bit tighter in the bottom.SS rectifier and heavy filtering like the early 70's metal face.Also the v1 cathode cap will make a difference with the bass.


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## What?

2203xman said:


> Is your clip with the tube rec or ss?



Tube. I do feel the difference when switching the rectifier, but the sound seems to stay pretty close to the same. I'll play around with it more tomorrow. I haven't even really gotten into exploring the switching options yet, only having just flipped each of them and listened for any initial impressions. None of them alone seemed to have any effect on the tightness of the bass. The way it is now isn't a bad thing, but it would be nice to be able to tighten it up when wanted. I'm thinking it is down to the power supply though.


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## What?

Buzzard said:


> I’m kind of a perfectionist and can see those things you mentioned a while ago. The Rolex just looks off to me. Thin and not the right pebble style. Metal corners look cheap and silver screws? Really. Knobs definitely aren’t Marshall style bu whatever



Don't get me wrong. This amp is built to a price point (costing alot less than similar amps), and I think any cheapening happens in the cosmetics, not the important internals. I definitely prefer the amp build swallowing the budget over better cab cosmetics. But even for low budget cosmetics some of the choices do seem odd. Even so, as is, it's an ok enough cab. Fine enough for holding the little beast that is inside and getting it from point A to point B and back. If I get froggy, I might do some cosmetic tinkering later. But it isn't a big concern.


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## 2203xman

Your clip had a very Zep type tone/ feel to it.Nice.'Kinda on the early side of plexi tone.I think it compares very closely to the video of the vintage '68 Plexi that you posted..Looking forward to playing around with mine.I hope it can get a little brighter,so many things to tweak on this amp.On my 1987x,I lowered the 330 v1 cap value,and it helped a lot with the heavy bass.I like a turret board amp for such tinkering.Thanks for the clip.Also,I ordered my head box in fawn,interested seeing how it turns out.


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## ampeq

What? said:


> Don't get me wrong. This amp is built to a price point (costing alot less than similar amps), and I think any cheapening happens in the cosmetics, not the important internals. I definitely prefer the amp build swallowing the budget over better cab cosmetics. But even for low budget cosmetics some of the choices do seem odd. Even so, as is, it's an ok enough cab. Fine enough for holding the little beast that is inside and getting it from point A to point B and back. If I get froggy, I might do some cosmetic tinkering later. But it isn't a big concern.


It sounds like you really don't care for the amp, I'm surprised because I'v owned about every amp going and I love mine. The cosmetics are personal preference, but I like everything on the Chupa, in fact I like the SS screws and metal corners much better than Marshall's plastic & thumbtack design. (That always bothered me.) I like the knobs better than the little ones and mine has a nice tactile feel. You can buy the amp's without a case if this does bother anyone. I don't care for the black / gold look, my next one will be all black. I wish it was better for you, I was thinking about that one as well but if it won't work without an attenuator it's no good for me. Maybe yours was rushed because of this dam flu shit and that's why you smelled paint? My Chupa can sound great at any volume and I would like a cleaner amp that can do the same to blend it with. I was really hoping this one would do that. How versatile is it? Have you had a chance to go through all the goodies yet? Have you tried it with both a Strat and LP yet? I thought it sounded very good but would love to hear more and what each thing can do. I sure hope you are very happy with it once you get more time on it, I think you will love it very shortly. What is the speaker set up you like best so far with this amp? Please keep us posted.


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## What?

ampeq said:


> It sounds like you really don't care for the amp, I'm surprised because I'v owned about every amp going and I love mine. The cosmetics are personal preference, but I like everything on the Chupa, in fact I like the SS screws and metal corners much better than Marshall's plastic & thumbtack design. (That always bothered me.) I like the knobs better than the little ones and mine has a nice tactile feel. You can buy the amp's without a case if this does bother anyone. I don't care for the black / gold look, my next one will be all black. I wish it was better for you, I was thinking about that one as well but if it won't work without an attenuator it's no good for me. Maybe yours was rushed because of this dam flu shit and that's why you smelled paint? My Chupa can sound great at any volume and I would like a cleaner amp that can do the same to blend it with. I was really hoping this one would do that. How versatile is it? Have you had a chance to go through all the goodies yet? Have you tried it with both a Strat and LP yet? I thought it sounded very good but would love to hear more and what each thing can do. I sure hope you are very happy with it once you get more time on it, I think you will love it very shortly. What is the speaker set up you like best so far with this amp? Please keep us posted.



I already knew about the cosmetics before buying. Most everything was obvious to me from the pictures that Ceriatone provides, but you never really know what you'll get until you have it in person. And someone here mentioned the light weight knobs before I bought mine. The only unexpected thing really was the paint smell. Also, I definitely was not buying this amp for the cosmetics. My main buying points were construction and build quality (of the amp, not the cab), features, and price. I had nothing much to go on for knowing what it would sound like, since 1987 circuit amps vary pretty widely in their sound and how they are presented.

On the sonic side, it's a cool amp, and it's going to take some time to feel it out. I mentioned above that this is my first 4-holer, and I also said that I don't hear any vintage character in it. Having listened to many recorded examples of various 4-holers over the last couple of days and compared with my own quick recording, I think I will retract that statement (updated my previous post). It does have a general vintage character to it, and I would agree with 2203xman, that it is sonically comparable to the vintage example in a video a couple of posts up. But it seems capable of getting much brighter than that vintage example. And here is the big one for me: If I decide that I want to change that loose'ish bass (or some other aspect), it's going to be doable by me (with some help) or by a tech who knows old school Marshall amps. Where with my DSL50, not so much.

I'm really just telling my honest impressions (good and bad, from an inexperienced 4-holer perspective) so that other people know what to expect. I didn't see any examples of this amp model being talked about out there before this thread, so maybe it has something to do with other people here having ordered it. So it should be a good thing leaving some objective impressions to chew on for other people who might be thinking about ordering one. Sonically, I think that I don't have to say too much here. The recording is decently representative of what the amp sounds like. If someone likes the sonics of the recording that I posted, they are going to like the sound of the amp. I'm not one to blast out buckets of praise for a product, especially out of the gate (from experience). I'll continue over time to leave my impressions as I get more familiar with the amp.

I can say this so far about the amp's sound. I really enjoyed playing it yesterday. And it wasn't sonically offfensive in any way. But at the same time, it was an unfamiliar experience. Compared to the green channel on my DSL50, I'm much preferring the Plexi 51 so far. The range of sounds is better to my ears so far with the Plexi 51 when only using the guitar's volume knob as the means for control, from chimey, to somewhat woody, to loose'ish crunchy and singing, to overboard sagging, and it responds to playing dyanamics more to my liking. Also, being a reverb lover, I am missing that spring reverb a bit, even though it doesn't compare at all to the reverb on my Fender amps. But it was still nice to have. The next toy might be a dedicated tube reverb unit or reverb and tremolo unit. Or I might just get more comfortable with playing without reverb, which wouldn't be a bad thing.


----------



## What?

Today is my day off. My neighbors are going to hate me. A little second day gushing and another issue.

This thing is a rock machine (as in rock n roll). Gets bright as all hell and nice clean to crunch transition with pick attack. Playing through it today gave me that good feeling ya get when the back of your neck tingles. It gets very bright, maybe more than my Super Reverb. If you plugged a treble booster into this with a tele, you would break a whiskey jar. Not really. But it gets damn bright. Be very mindful of your hearing gentlemen and germs.

I did some light reading today here on the forum about the cathode bypass caps at V1 as well as shared and split cathode (this amp has a share/split cathode switch). Thanks for the knowledge, @neikeel @ampmadscientist @jcmjmp

It seems that V1a is the normal channel gain stage with a 330uf cathode bypass cap and V1b is the treble channel gain stage with a 0.068uf cathode bypass cap. The bass definitely changes when switching from shared to split cathode (the recording I posted was with it set at shared cathode) where the treble channel gets the added value (more bass) when set to shared. But it seems to depend on the position of the bass control, where fully down or up I'm not hearing a difference with the switch. But anywhere inbetween fully down or up on the bass control there is a definitely a difference. Time for another quick recording to see how it translates. Everything will be the same as before except for having the cathode switch set to split, trying the range of bass control, and changing the bright switch. I'll spell it out after I make a recording.

But also, I ran into a potential problem. When I initially flipped the cathode switch, the volume muted completely and stayed that way. Flipping it gain brought the volume back. Repeated flipping of the switch and it changed the bass output as it should. Then it happened again. My amp might have a funky switch here.


----------



## What?

I'll post a recording later today. I made one already, but I need to redo it with a log sheet to keep track of the changes along the way. Just want to keep playing for now and report back that combos of volume (moving from 10 to 7), flipping the cathode switch, and the brightness switch does tighten things up to my liking for a tighter sound. It's mostly the volume setting though. Full tilt definitely gets mushier. Keep in mind, 4-holer n00b here.

This thing crunches and sings nicely at higher final volume, meaning a higher attenuator setting of 4 to keep my neighbors from losing their minds and breaking out the pitchforks. Plexi 51 + attenuator is win. Amp volume down a bit, attenuator volume up gives crunch n munch. Need to do some more comparing of the PPIMV and half power mode too though. I'll keep posting about it over time to try and give a good picture of things.


----------



## ampeq

What? said:


> Today is my day off. My neighbors are going to hate me. A little second day gushing and another issue.
> 
> This thing is a rock machine (as in rock n roll). Gets bright as all hell and nice clean to crunch transition with pick attack. Playing through it today gave me that good feeling ya get when the back of your neck tingles. It gets very bright, maybe more than my Super Reverb. If you plugged a treble booster into this with a tele, you would break a whiskey jar. Not really. But it gets damn bright. Be very mindful of your hearing gentlemen and germs.
> 
> I did some light reading today here on the forum about the cathode bypass caps at V1 as well as shared and split cathode (this amp has a share/split cathode switch). Thanks for the knowledge, @neikeel @ampmadscientist @jcmjmp
> 
> It seems that V1a is the normal channel gain stage with a 330uf cathode bypass cap and V1b is the treble channel gain stage with a 0.068uf cathode bypass cap. The bass definitely changes when switching from shared to split cathode (the recording I posted was with it set at shared cathode) where the treble channel gets the added value (more bass) when set to shared. But it seems to depend on the position of the bass control, where fully down or up I'm not hearing a difference with the switch. But anywhere inbetween fully down or up on the bass control there is a definitely a difference. Time for another quick recording to see how it translates. Everything will be the same as before except for having the cathode switch set to split, trying the range of bass control, and changing the bright switch. I'll spell it out after I make a recording.
> 
> But also, I ran into a potential problem. When I initially flipped the cathode switch, the volume muted completely and stayed that way. Flipping it gain brought the volume back. Repeated flipping of the switch and it changed the bass output as it should. Then it happened again. My amp might have a funky switch here.


Not sure on your's but my Chupa works like this: Those little switch's for bright attack work a lot at lower to mid volumes, but the more volume you through at it the less the little switch's do. I think they are more for getting the sound you want at lower or studio volumes. When blasting it I don't think you really need them as much either. When I first got mine I kept thinking it was messed up because sometimes a switch would make a big difference and sometimes it did not. Turns out I was messed up and just did not understand how they worked. Same with Resonance and Presence, both of those "scratch" when you move them. It turns out they are supposed to do that, if they don't you will not get the same tone from the amp. (Something about the way they are wired.) When I got mine I opened the back and checked all the tubes to make sure they were ok, I still don't know how they make it being shipped that far. It seems like your liking it a little better as you go, I hope you really like it.


----------



## What?

ampeq, since it seems that I came across to you in this thread as not liking this amp so much, let me say that putting aside some minor issues so far, this amp is a winner. It has the old school sounds of ac/dc, zeppelin, zz top, thin lizzy, and so forth. Mellower sweet blues to more brash and aggressive 70's punk rock tones. Tighter crunch to looser sing. Exactly what I was looking for. Now I'm gushing. For my playing and taste, it smokes my DSL50 for anything but metal, which is off my radar these days.


----------



## iwuk78

Really appreciate all the detail you are going into with your experiences here.
Your latest descriptions sound like a plexi to me  

It has definitely been my experience with 4 holers that they take some time to "get" if you are not familiar with them. Kind of more than an amp, you play IT as much as you play the guitar if that makes sense.

Glad that you are starting to enjoy it. Can't wait for mine!


----------



## What?

The honeymoon is on! This is my new baby. She's the beast to my vintage Super Reverb's beauty, and that is what I originally set out for finding. But there is some overlap there too. Neither is better, just different. The DSL50 on the other hand is going to be finding a new owner.  The badge might not say it, but the 51 is the much truer _Marshall_.

How do you know when you're playing the right sort of amp? When stuff just starts coming out from seemingly nowhere that you didn't know you had in you and you feel every bit of it. Now I'm really gushing. Embarrassingly so.

To you fellas who bought this amp: If what I'm saying here rings any bells, you're going to dig this amp.

And in the moment of playing, I wanted to give myself a little 'feeler' test. I gradually made the changes of turning off the attenuator, turned down the PPIMV, turned on half power mode, switched the rectifier to solid state, and it still sings, crunches, and sounds great at moderate volume, as in no louder than say a full tilt 5 watter. It does still sound very good down lower, but volume alone has an emotional impact too.

And I look forward to some of you getting yours, because I could probably learn a thing or three from some discussion and other's experiences.


----------



## 2203xman

When I first tried a Marshall 4 hole I had a tough time with it .Then,over time I saw the light,and learned how to manage the beast.I have over mentioned it,but the v1 cap change made the plexi my amp of choice.Happy for you What?.I look forward to mine.Nik has replied to my texts pronto,and is quite the friendly guy.


----------



## What?

Sorry no recordings today. I'll get some more up soon. One thing to note on recording. An sm57 isn't getting the brightness across that this amp is capable of. It just gets rolled off and by quite a bit. I feel like the low end suffers with an sm57 too. An sm57 does give a decent sort of pre-eq'ed sound to work with for a mix but not so much for presenting an honest picture of in person sound.

Playing with this amp at low volume (bedroom volume) using the PPIMV and half power switch, it's not bad at all, as in better than any modeler, solid state amp, or tube amp that I have ever played at low volume and without a single pedal. At higher volume it does compress and smooth out some, responds nicer, and gets that singing feedback going on, but at the moment this is very much satisfying my previous want for a 1 watt Marshall. And that is through a 412. I might end up getting a 112 or 110 cab for lower volume use. I already have an 8 ohm reissue greenback here, so I might as well put it to good use. I would say here though to anyone new to a plexi type amp, get some familiarity with it at higher volumes first, then work your way back down to lower volume, not the other way around, thinking about various aspects of the higher volume sound; the brightness, mids, low end, gain, and so forth. Some of that higher volume sweetness and character does get lost at lower volume, but it's still satisfying to play at lower volume after dialing it in for such.

Also, what i thought was tube rattle before turned out to be a nearby set of drill bits vibrating against one another which sounded remarkably like tube rattle. Nik shipped the thing with non-rattling tubes.

If I could only have one amp right now out of my other amps, this would be it. It is very satisfying to play, allows me to get expressive from clean to mean without any external help from other devices, and it does well from full on to bedroom volume, only requiring changing some settings to optimize it for low volume.


----------



## solarburn

I think it sounds excellent! No doubt from my ears. I would have a blast too.


----------



## ampeq

Now it sounds more like I expected to hear. I was worried it was not up to what the Chupacabra is but it sounds closer now. So glad to hear it.


----------



## Buzzard

But can you get a good early EVH tone with it?


----------



## What?

Buzzard said:


> But can you get a good early EVH tone with it?



I'm not a Van Halen tone aficionado. I never even learned a Van Halen riff or lick. Here is a stab at low volume. You tell me.

https://app.box.com/s/vf4k7pgznywglo144qzlbhn7db1w06r6

3 sections there. All have been dolled up a bit with the same eq, delay, and reverb.
1) No pedal, treble channel on full, PPIMV at bedroom volume.
2) OCD clone added as a clean boost
3) Same pedal used as an overdrive

That pedal adds a pretty big low mid hump that I don't like, but my graphic eq recently bit the dust, so I had to use something. For someone who knows that sound well and knows about getting it, I bet it's in there.


----------



## What?

Buzzard, if you have any suggestions on dialing in closer to that sort of sound using what I might have on hand, let me know.

Another stab at it with some changed settings and more processing (feel like I'm leaning too bright at the amp):

https://app.box.com/s/qzwwm2j80tcxwu5ehgef911xfnsdglr1

That is using the same pedal with the level up pretty far and some gain added. Still around bedroom volume, but a bit louder than before. Lots of noise there. I'm under fluorescent lights, on the same circuit as a pool pump, and sitting right in front of the amp.

And yes, I feel a bit ridiculous doing this. I'm not a shredder type, and I don't know my ass from a hole in the ground concerning Van Halen tone. But this seems to be getting in that neighborhood of crunchy bright saturation.


----------



## What?

Seems like with that sort of sound it could do the old Metallica Kill Em All sort of tone. Let's see...back in a few.


----------



## What?

I'm being lazy here. Just brought down the gain on the pedal, and changed the eq a bit in my daw.

https://app.box.com/s/yr1scuqjf3a7zoeds7ncmplrdjnwdqy1

Same delay and big ass reverb. Lazy... And you'll have to forgive my shitty playing. I very rarely revisit that stuff, so I'm hella rusty on it.


----------



## What?

I don't know what you fellas think, but I'm thinking today that the Plexi 51 is a badass amp for all things old school Marshall. Lots of sounds in there. I don't think it is going to do any modern djent sort of stuff, but I personally don't like that sort of stuff anyway. I would have loved to have this amp as a kid for sure, playing old school metal.

And I'll say it again. If I could only have one amp, it would be an old school style plexi like this one. 1987 or 1959. And I love that this amp has lots of tweaker switches to help dial things in without having to do tons of reading, getting some handholding, and breaking out the soldering iron.

I'm laughing a bit here too. That is a $40 set of pickups from ebay (new price) and a cheapy used Charvel that I think I paid $180 for just because it looked kind of neat. Once the threshold of crappy to decent enough is crossed, the guitar and pickups don't matter nearly as much as the amp. Same goes for my crappo partocaster with with $35 ebay pickups. When I get the thing restrung I'll post some clips using it. And that cab was a $150 special that the guy had posted for months and no one would buy it because it says Peavey on the badge and it's old. I plugged my dsl50 into it full tilt to see what it would do, and it swallowed it up like a whale eating a tic tac. The guy was getting up in age and was tired of lugging it around after decades time. Said he used to muscle it down and back up a couple of flights of stairs when he was younger to go play gigs.


----------



## iwuk78

Sounds great man.


----------



## What?

iwuk78 said:


> Sounds great man.



Thanks. I'm looking forward to hearing other people's experiences with this amp. In the meantime, I'll be exploring this thing for whatever it's got.


----------



## 2203xman

Thanks for the demo! Sounds very good definitely Marshall tone.It's going to be a long wait,but I will try to return the favor.I ordered mine without tubes,and am planning on something from TAD.I already have a low value cap for v1,but sounds like I may not need it.Enjoy!


----------



## Buzzard

Thanks for going through the trouble recording the VH stuff. I like the 1st clip best w/o any pedal.Sounds closer to evh,and actually brighter may be better for that tone.Not a metallica fan but that sounded very close if not dead on to me.VH pretty much ran all knobs on 10 even vol 2 and plugged into upper left input and not jumpered. Would love to hear it with tube rectifier and with solid state rectifier.


----------



## What?

Buzzard said:


> Thanks for going through the trouble recording the VH stuff. I like the 1st clip best w/o any pedal.Sounds closer to evh,and actually brighter may be better for that tone.Not a metallica fan but that sounded very close if not dead on to me.VH pretty much ran all knobs on 10 even vol 2 and plugged into upper left input and not jumpered. Would love to hear it with tube rectifier and with solid state rectifier.



I like it best without the pedal too. A clean boost would be a much better tool for the job here. I was using my graphic eq for that job, but it gave up the ghost. Listening through some Van Halen stuff, he actually had something of a variety of different sounds on that first album. Some of it very saturated, some quite a bit less so. Some on the stiff side, some with more give. Common traits that I hear in his sound from that first album are very soft attack (not ever getting icepicky), nice low mids, rich highs (not high mids) without being annoying. Some of that softness could be in the production via saturation from the mixer, tape saturation, and nice compression.

I remember reading at one time about plexis having some channel bleed even when not jumpered. I'll have to give that a try to see how much difference it makes and compare it to having the normal channel up just a bit when jumpered. A relative point here on the Plexi 51 is that the normal channel (or bass channel, whatever you like to call it) has a pull pot for internal jumpering. No need for a patch cable for doing that. With the treble channel (even alone) on 10, this amp does get on the mushier side, where I think most of that early Van Halen stuff tended to be tighter.

On the rectifier, I really don't hear a difference either way so far. I do feel just a bit more give when set for tube rectifier, and it seems to have more effect with the amp running harder. At bedroom volume, I probably couldn't pick out one from the other.


----------



## What?

Yea... I'm pulling myself right the fuck away from sliding into that Van Halen tone rabbit hole. That seems like a tough nut to crack, and it might crack your nut trying to get there.


----------



## Buzzard

Lol. That’s why I got a suhr sl 68. Figured it was closest to the real thing. I still like the idea of a 50w plexi 51 though. My Mesa stiletto deuce 1 has switchable tube/solid state rectifiers and it’s a huge difference between the two


----------



## What?

Buzzard said:


> Lol. That’s why I got a suhr sl 68. Figured it was closest to the real thing. I still like the idea of a 50w plexi 51 though. My Mesa stiletto deuce 1 has switchable tube/solid state rectifiers and it’s a huge difference between the two



I wonder if that is dependent upon volume and playing style. And do you know what rectifier tube is in your stiletto? The Plexi 51 came with a JJ. I have read accounts by some people saying that some particular rectifier tubes do make a difference in sound, where others don't. And then other people say that the choice of rectifier tube has almost zero effect on the sound. Guitar playing is all pocket draining madness I tell ya.

On another note, I'm reading that new capacitors might take around 100 hours to break in. More madness.


----------



## Buzzard

Not sure about what tube rectifier is in it.


----------



## What?

Apparently Stiletto's run a 5U4, where the Plexi 51 runs a 5AR4/GZ34. The latter being very stiff among tube rectifiers. Even the bit of give that I feel at higher volume is minor.


----------



## Buzzard

I don't know alot of technical things about amps but I wonder if the plexi 51 can use the 5u4?


----------



## What?

Buzzard said:


> I don't know alot of technical things about amps but I wonder if the plexi 51 can use the 5u4?



I don't know much either. I read that some amps which use a GZ34 can use a 5U4, but I guess it is dependent upon how much current the amp's power transformer can supply. Sounds like a question for Nik. He is very responsive to questions.

Something to keep in mind here is that <apparently> whether a given rectifier actually changes the sound of an amp or not is dependent upon whether it changes the voltage supplied to the amp. In other words, it isn't the rectifier where the sound is changing. It is the change in voltage caused by a particular rectifier. And <apparently> there are other ways to go about causing that change. So in the case of your amp, when you switch from solid state to tube rectifier, there is a significant change in voltage causing a change in the sound. And in the case of my amp, there is likely relatively little change in voltage and so no perceivable change in sound. And if you like sag, <apparently> a sag resistor can be used to provide that. Just throwing out some stuff I have read today on the topic.


----------



## What?

I found that Malcolm tone in this amp today. Woo hoo! It might seem like such a simple thing, but I have tried to get this tone with other amps, and it was always a crap result. There it is though. No special pickups, tubes, speakers, microphones, and zero processing. Just a plexi with an sm57. Clean with just a little bit of metallic bright cracking breakup to it.

You'll have to forgive the noise. Fluorescent lights, pool pump, etc. Not exactly a good environment for recording.

https://app.box.com/s/m6pva4iyybhhtr6qs2bcsvomcv4wavro

Go listen to Live Wire for a reference.

And for the little more gainier AC/DC stuff, upping the gain just a bit brings it on. I could post another clip if anyone is interested in that. I'm stoked to find that stuff in this amp. Plexis rule!

Also, this was the best I could do with my DSL50 after much trial and effort a couple of years ago. Recorded in better conditions, two tracks with bass. The breakup just sounded not right and that amp doesn't get nearly as bright.

https://app.box.com/file/294136225502?s=7ufz92o4gzxltmi2n488sg1dx49acyya


----------



## malice95

Thanks for posting all the sound samples and your feedback What? Now you got my all excited to get this thing! Dammit.. Patience.. Must have Patience.. Got any Led Zepplin in it?


----------



## What?

malice95 said:


> Thanks for posting all the sound samples and your feedback What? Now you got my all excited to get this thing! Dammit.. Patience.. Must have Patience.. Got any Led Zepplin in it?



Funny you should ask. Maybe I'm the only one here who is isn't a big Led Zeppelin fan. I do like some of their songs, Bonham's playing, and Page's playing. I never was a fan of their sound, Plant's singing, or Jone's playing. But in tinkering with this amp I kept running into what I thought was a Page sound, trying to steer away from it for a brighter and crunchier sound, which I did figure out. When I hear Page's sound I always think Marshall bass spec, although I have no idea what his rig was. If you can mention something specific to shoot for that likely wasn't using a pedal I'll give it a go.


----------



## What?

The sound that I'm thinking of that I was trying to steer away from is Whole Lotta Love. I think a fuzz was used on that one though. Which reminds me, I haven't tried a fuzz with this amp yet.


----------



## malice95

Black Dog


----------



## What?

malice95 said:


> Black Dog



It's getting late here now, but I'll take a stab at it tomorrow. That is that reedy tone that I mentioned further back in the thread. Sounds like the bass spec plexi to me.


----------



## What?

malice95, this should be of interest to you:


> There were three guitars on “Black Dog” so I triple-tracked it. When I mixed it, these three guitars were down here and the rest of the tracks were up here. Since the sound was so loud, it gave me much more room for the other stuff. Anyways, he meant two 1176s in series, one of which has the compression buttons punched out, so it is like an amp. You hit the front of the next compressor really hard and make the mic amp distort a bit with the EQ – a bit of bottom to make it sing.
> 
> 
> So “Black Dog” has a direct Gibson Les Paul Sunburst ’52 or something [Page’s ’59 ‘burst], going right into the mic amps on the mixer, which is going through two 1176s, and it sounds like some guy in the Albert Hall with a bunch of Marshalls.
> 
> 
> I couldn’t have done it without the 1176s. There is not another compressor that will do that because you can take out the compression stuff.
> 
> 
> What?
> 
> The 1167 is a Universal Audio non-tube compressor with a built-in amplifier (I think). So not only was the “Black Dog” guitar(s) not through an amp, it was solid-state!
> 
> http://www.woodytone.com/2010/07/02/black-f-ing-dog-jimmy-used-no-amp/



I'll still give it a go though. It seems like the best shot someone might have at doing that with a guitar amp would be with some sort of fuzz pedal such as a Maestro.


----------



## 2203xman

Like the Malcolm tone.I was hoping it would do this sound.A great tone for a bunch of songs.Hope to have mine before chrstmas.


----------



## What?

2203xman said:


> Like the Malcolm tone.I was hoping it would do this sound.A great tone for a bunch of songs.Hope to have mine before chrstmas.



Thanks. I listened to it again today. I should have added just a touch more gain (channel volume) and aimed for a little more bottom for the recording. Also, I think a condenser mic was probably used for his recorded sound. If I'm not mistaken they used a Neumann U67 on that album of which there are tons of clones these days. A real U67 costs considerably more than my whole guitar rig. But in person it sounds very close to that Malcolm thing. It's loud though.


----------



## What?

I gave the Black Dog sound a good half hour effort. I didn't learn the riff (lazy), so this is just winging it from impression of listening to it a couple of times. Straight up mono recording with a fuzz pedal with just some stereo reverb added afterward.

https://app.box.com/s/vvek3jjw2914mr22ubcz9duajrflg0dw

For reference:



I think it isn't too awfully far away, considering that I'm using a plexi clone and a fuzz, and he was using a mixer and some solid state compressors (no amp).


----------



## What?

And a quick 2-track stab: https://app.box.com/s/cxo6p5wvdhor2esvc81epngzkq777sh5


----------



## What?

One more quick stab. More amp, less fuzz. https://app.box.com/s/wp1kelybl3p7hyzkcs5zqy3nrrdsg7xw


----------



## neikeel

You are getting closer
Black Dog is not that distorted more crunch with bridge pup all the way.
You have to be able to hear the vibrato on the C of the G string in the way up through the riff and be able to then let the chords ring. Suggest you drop the doubler/harmoniser effect.
Edit, I just listened to the remaster and it is double tracked!

Stock plexi (JTM45 through 12 series) will do it nicely, your 51 will have gain and fuzz to spare
More please!


----------



## What?

If you listen to Page's early live sound on Black Dog, it sounds *very* different than the album. I'm convinced that he didn't use a plexi (or an amp at all) on the album. Live, it sounds like he used the inbetween pickup position a cranked up amp (a 1959) just over the edge of breakup and a Tone Bender. No way that is a guitar straight into an amp. Watch this:



I have a terrible fuzz and an ok fuzz. I'll give the terrible fuzz a run tomorrow and see what it gives. I should probably go ahead and learn the riff too instead of just winging it.

By the way, I wasn't using a doubler effect. That was just the sonic result of super sloppy playing.  I couldn't hear the previous track in my headphones when doing the second track, so the really loose timing between the two caused that 'effect'. The headphone amp on my portable recorder blows. It just doesn't have enough output for tracking loud stuff, getting drowned out by the loud thing being recorded. I need to get my recording computer back in order for this sort of stuff, but it's low priority right now.

Here is someone nailing that sound using an 1176 plugin. No amp. There are lots of illusions in the recording world. I wonder if Jimmy Page used a plexi at all on any of those tracks back then. I know that he was using some small combo amps, which has been very common in studios for a long time.


----------



## Buzzard

I get the feeling that back in the day they favored small amp or no amps in the studio and the out of necessity used the big amps live because they flat out had to.


----------



## What?

Buzzard said:


> I get the feeling that back in the day they favored small amp or no amps in the studio and the out of necessity used the big amps live because they flat out had to.



That is still very much a thing today. If you get into reading about and watching things on engineers and producers there are all sorts of unconventional surprises and tricks that they have used over the years. On the small amp thing, some of them have alot of character, and studios collect them for those different characters and colors. Also, in a smaller room that sounds good a big amp can easily overpower the room and create mud, boominess, pinginess, and other issues, where a small amp might have a good output to fit the room's acoustics or might not bleed severely into other miked instruments.


----------



## What?

I gave the fuzzes a try today for getting closer to that Page sound. I didn't get anything really worth posting.

If you watch some of the live stuff, you'll see him using the middle position on his les paul for the main motif and switching to the bridge just before hitting the A chord. Sometimes he stays on the bridge the whole time though. But I'm positive that he is using a Tone Bender or similar pedal in his live sound. He uses it in a somewhat subtle way though, definitely not cranking up the gain. You can hear it bloom on the notes and chords in the live stuff.


----------



## What?

Maybe the honeymoon is over? Today I'm banging out some punk rock rhythms with the treble channel hovering around 6-7, bass channel around 2-3, and the sound is pretty grainy and rough, even with the bright cap switched out. Eq controls, negative feedback, channels mixing, nothing really changes it. I have a couple of old Mullard preamps tubes on order, so maybe that will help to smooth it out some. I'd like to find some more articulation (that probably sounds counter to banging out punk rock tunes), less roughness/graininess, and maybe a little more beef in the low end.


----------



## Buzzard

Hmm. I’d ask Nik before spending anything.


----------



## 2203xman

I would definitely try some tubes other than the JJ's.I struggled with the bass on my 1987x.Rarely would I use any of the normal channel.My bass knob was usually on 2 or less and I changed that 330 by pass cap too for this same reason.I ram tungsol el34b's in it and a 100uf bright cap.She finally came around to sounding tight and much more focused.


----------



## What?

I'll see what some tube swapping does and go from there. Sound is a funny thing though, where the ears seem to change somewhat from day to day.


----------



## What?

Did alot of playing on this amp today. Inbetween I was listening to various Marshall sound clips. This thing is pretty bang on to a 1987x. I know that Ceriatone doesn't have many audio clips up for their amps, so maybe that is helpful to someone. Just go listen to some 1987x sound clips and you'll have a very good idea of what it sounds like. But keep in mind which speakers are being used. Any comments I have made here about the sound on the Plexi 51 (good and bad), I have heard the same things in recordings of 1987x's. Essentially, with the Ceriatone you get a better built running chassis but a cheaper made cab, a good effects loop, good PPIMV, and the various switching options. I think most of the switching options don't amount to much though. The bright cap switch is very useuful, as is the shared/split cathode switch. The rest I could probably live without, but admittedly I still don't know alot about the context's in which to use them yet. I haven't gotten that far into reading about the various switching values for different years of amps.


----------



## jchrisf

I emailed Scott at Guitarampsusa and told him I was looking for an 80s hard rock and hair metal amp that could do Plexi, JCM and hot rodded versions of each. He recommended the Plexi51


----------



## What?

jchrisf said:


> I emailed Scott at Guitarampsusa and told him I was looking for an 80s hard rock and hair metal amp that could do Plexi, JCM and hot rodded versions of each. He recommended the Plexi51



When I talked to Scott he didn't seem to know alot about Marshall style amps. Nik definitely did though. I'm not really into 80's hair metal, so I don't know the various guitar tones, but I would think you would want something with an extra gain stage for that. A Chupacabra or similar seems like it would be a better fit. I would hit up ampeq. He has a Chupacabra and probably knows it well by now. I would email Nik too. He has been quick to respond whenever I had any questions for him, and his recommendation for a Plexi 51 for what I wanted was bang on. But if you're listening to demos of 1987x's and hearing what you want, the Plexi 51 would give you the same thing. It's very classic sounding and can go from dark and woody to bright and brash, which I think is a good fit for blues, classic rock, and more bright and hairy 70's punk rock.


----------



## jchrisf

What? said:


> When I talked to Scott he didn't seem to know alot about Marshall style amps. Nik definitely did though. I'm not really into 80's hair metal, so I don't know the various guitar tones, but I would think you would want something with an extra gain stage for that. A Chupacabra or similar seems like it would be a better fit. I would hit up ampeq. He has a Chupacabra and probably knows it well by now. I would email Nik too. He has been quick to respond whenever I had any questions for him, and his recommendation for a Plexi 51 for what I wanted was bang on. But if you're listening to demos of 1987x's and hearing what you want, the Plexi 51 would give you the same thing. It's very classic sounding and can go from dark and woody to bright and brash, which I think is a good fit for blues, classic rock, and more bright and hairy 70's punk rock.


Actually I asked Nic the same thing only I told him I was a bedroom player and he recommended the SOY


----------



## What?

jchrisf said:


> Actually I asked Nic the same thing only I told him I was a bedroom player and he recommended the SOY



The Yeti and Chupacabra sound to be close cousins with different voicings. Both are hotrodded Marshall style amps (extra gain stage and so forth). From what I have heard, the Son of Yeti is going to have a little more manageable volume but a little less beefy than it's big brother, similar to how the Marshall Studio Vintage sounds like a smaller plexi. And yea, I think the Yeti is a little more classic voiced, where the Chupacabra is more modern. A 20 watter with a PPIMV would probably make for a really good home amp and smaller gig amp. You could add the PPIMV later if you wanted it.


----------



## What?

I have come to the conclusion that trying to push the Plexi 51 into higher gain territory is a no-go. It is very much a mid gain amp and shines from edge of breakup clean to mid gain.

And while at times I like the brightness of the 1000pF bright cap setting (with high and presence controls adjusted accordingly), I think one of the switching options should be something more like a 500pF, where the current switching options are none(Middle), 100pF(Right), or 1000pF (Left). I don't like the Middle position (no bright cap), and I will probably do some changing here. It would make more sense to me to go with something like 100 pF (Left), 500pF (Middle), 1000 pF(Right), so that left to right is warmer to brighter. Maybe even lowering the 1000pF.

I did lots of playing today with the switches for Char, V2A, V1B. These switches along with eq do help in going from tighter to looser. I had been running the Mid control at full, but I'm liking it turned down considerably, bass at 0, treble just below half. The bass control could really use a change to have a more useful range. After not too far up on the bass control, it doesn't seem to really add in any more useful bass to the end sound, just making the overall sound looser.

I also read a post last night by Alan from Carol Ann Amps where he talked about using lower cathode bypass and coupling caps to help tighten up bass spec plexi style amps. https://www.thegearpage.net/board/i...ess-bass-from-my-marshall-1986-clone.1636122/ This seems like something that I should tinker with in the future. I'm quoting it here in case it disappears at some point:



Carol-AnnAmps said:


> There's a better way Mike. Changing the PI caps means all that bass BS is just being attenuated at the end of the preamp chain, by which point its already made a bassy mess through the gain stages which REALLY compromises the tightness of the overdriven tone when the amp is pushed in to overdrive. Leave the PI caps alone. I use 0.1uF in all the CA's and they are not bassy at all because the preceding gain stages are correctly frequency balanced.
> 
> You have to make changes to multiple stage to keep things balanced so the overdrive tone is nice.
> 
> Assuming its pretty much a clone of a 1986 model Marshall......
> 
> 1. Drop any stupidly massive cathode bypass capacitor in the first stage down to 1uF in the first stage. The original marshall value is 320uF and is the main source of issue with that circuit
> 
> 2. Drop the 1st to 2nd stage coupling capacitor to 0.01uF or 0.005uF. 0.002uF is too low and will make the amp 'appear' too bright, especially if he intends to pedal it clean. 0.002uF doesn't boost the highs, that's physically impossible. 0.02uf is letting though some more lower frequencies because its Q point is lower. Taking away bass always gives the PERCEPTION of more mids and highs, but in reality there are no more. To create a 'boost' requires an RC circuit where a capacitor bypasses a series signal chain resistor. The 470k/500pF network is an example of this.
> 
> 3. Change the coupling cap to the entrance of the PI to 0.01uF.
> 
> 4. Leave the three 0.1uF capacitors on the PI well alone, that's part of a great drive circuit for the power tubes !!!! 2000+ CA's aren't wrong !!!!
> 
> This way you have removed bass by reasonable amounts at 3 stages, not just boat loads at one after its already crapped up the previous stages. Plus by keeping the 0.1uF caps in the PI you are letting more bass harmonics generated in the PI in to the power tubes (a good thing) and also remember that one of those caps is part of the -ve feedback loop. Dropping its value has the opposite effect, giving lower frequencies more 'open loop' gain if the amp has a reasonable amount of -ve feedback.
> 
> Creating correct frequency response and harmonic generation and balance is a fine art that requires small changes in multiple areas that all work together. Obviously the values I've given can be changed to taste and also don't take in to account some important specifics about the amplifier.


----------



## What?

Just an fyi on the buffered effects loop. I hit up Nik to find out if it can handle line level effects and if it is the same as the Metro zero loss loop as some people have said. He said it is an older version of the Metro loop, instrument level only. And I just got around the other day to actually using the loop. It seems fine to me. As I said before, just inserting a patch cable brings the level up just a bit, and along with that comes a bit of noise. If it were an option on this amp, I probably would have opted for the passive loop and then installed a Metro zero loss loop later, just because it has switchable levels for instrument level and line level effects.


----------



## 2203xman

I am impressed with how fast Nik responds .And he he is quite chatty.I wonder when he has time to build.Anyway thanks,I am waiting patiently for mine.I have a .01 uf cap that may replace my 330 bypass cap,and will soon order some TAD el34's,along with a rec tube.I still haven't told the wife,so a little time is needed for me to gently break the news.


----------



## What?

2203xman said:


> I am impressed with how fast Nik responds .And he he is quite chatty.I wonder when he has time to build.Anyway thanks,I am waiting patiently for mine.I have a .01 uf cap that may replace my 330 bypass cap,and will soon order some TAD el34's,along with a rec tube.I still haven't told the wife,so a little time is needed for me to gently break the news.



Yea, Nik is definitely open to discussion, which I much appreciate. What I gathered from one email about my amp is that he has a builder. So it sounds like he takes care of the business end of things. Sounds like the long wait time might be in your favor.


----------



## iwuk78

There are a few builders there as I understand. Here's a vid, pretty cool.


----------



## Buzzard

What? said:


> Yea, Nik is definitely open to discussion, which I much appreciate. What I gathered from one email about my amp is that he has a builder. So it sounds like he takes care of the business end of things. Sounds like the long wait time might be in your favor.


So how are you liking the amp now? It had sounded like there was some disappointment.


----------



## What?

Buzzard said:


> So how are you liking the amp now? It had sounded like there was some disappointment.



Nah, I'm really not disappointed with it. It's a cool amp, but a bit vanilla at the moment. There are definitely some pros and cons with it, but anything that I don't like about it is either superficial or minor and can be changed. And it's still going to take a while yet to really feel the thing out. I'm still going forth and back on this and that with it. It can definitely rock and roll as is, and I still think a 1987 is probably a good platform amp that could be taken in a number of directions according to what a person wants more specifically. I did shoot my mouth off though saying that it's on par with my old Super Reverb. As is, it is not. They are very different amps of course, but the old Super has some vintage juju going for it that the Ceriatone doesn't. That may just be an age thing, where this component and that one has drifted. And the super has a better set of tubes and the alnico CTS speakers going for it, and that beautiful tube spring reverb and tremolo. But maybe in the main, the Ceriatone is not a vintage amp. At this point I think it is much a matter of finding a nice set of tubes and speakers for the Ceriatone. My old 412MS cab can rock out, but it probably is a bit lacking in the character department for that vintage sort of character thing. And the Ceriatone still has the JJ's that came in it from end to end. I just got a couple of old Mullard preamp tubes to try in it, and maybe that will bring something to the table. And I am again aiming to try some different speakers. But I'm thinking that the G12C's and 425A cab might be the wrong direction to go. If those speakers are tilted toward more treble and shy on bass, I'm probably not going to like them with this amp. It's hard to say with so few recordings available of them and written opinions being pretty polarized. And what I have heard of the greenback reissue, I'm not a huge fan. At least not enough to switch from what I have now. My initial hunch was to try some Webers with this amp, and I may still do that. I have been impressed with the sound of every Weber I have tried. Not as in, it's ok, but as in, it sounds really good, even if it's character wasn't quite my personal thing. Maybe I got caught up here with so much discussion of 'Celestion'. But there are even fewer recordings out there of the Webers that I am interested in than the G12C's.


----------



## What?

Just pulled the back off this amp today. Tubes that came in the Pexi 51 (as they are labeled):

V1: JJ ECC83S, Ruby 12AX7ACZ HG
V2: TAD 7025/12AX7 High Grade (maybe someone here can help me identify the manufacturer)
V3: JJ ECC83S, Ruby 12AX7ACZ HG
V4/V5: JJ E34L, Apex matching, Current: 28, Transconductance: 7100
Rectifier: JJ GZ34S, TAD 5AR4CZ

Just tried a couple of old RCA labeled Mullards in V1, obtained from a very reputable dealer recommended by many people at a very popular forum. One is badly microphonic with blued pins. One had a bad hum. Guess I'll be sending those back. Bummer.

Funny thing. The first one I tried ended up being the microphonic one with blued pins. Before I took notice of the defects, it sounded really good though. I rocked out for a while and enjoyed the hell out of it. Then I thought I better put the JJ back in to see if is placebo. The JJ sounded _*the same*_. Back in with the Mullard and changing amp settings, which is when I noticed the microphonics. Tapping it with a guitar pick sent it into continuous light oscillation. Back in with the JJ. Sounded fine. Back and forth a handful more times. Same result.

I had left the amp at a lower gain setting the day before than I have been typically running (think ZZ top La Grange lower gain level) for trying some pedals up front, with the bass channel up higher than the treble channel. Before getting into monkeying with the sound of the old Mullard tubes, I just rolled down the bass channel lower for some tonal balance. Sounded great. Both at low gain settings, around 2-3 on the dials. But I'm pretty positive that I fooled myself.


----------



## malice95

Sigh, still got another 6 weeks or so togo on my Plexi51 order per Nik. Says he has a queue of 200 amps to build. I decided to break down and custom order a Dookie Modded 1959 amp from him as well. Should pair nicely with the Plexi51. Of course I wont see the 1959 amp until January. I tried to get him to slip it into the schedule with my other amp but he wouldn't do it. I suppose that's a good thing as that means others aren't cutting in front of me.


----------



## What?

What? said:


> V4/V5: JJ E34L



I opened this thing up full throttle unattenuated today, then with channel volumes around 5 for some dirty old country blues. Sounded pretty sweet with a harmonic tremolo and analog delay. I'm surprised at how not so loud it is with the E34L's, just my same experience with the DSL50. I'm willing to bet that it would be much louder with the winged C's in it. I will try them in it eventually. But jumping from the DSL50 with the winged C's in it now and the E34L's in the Plexi 51, the DSL50 is significantly louder. I mean, the Plexi 51 is loud but not disturbingly so right now as the DSL50 can get with those winged C's. Not like that day when a guy from the block behind me came crying that he couldn't hear his tv. The bass on the Plexi 51 is pretty huge and fat though with the bass channel up around the same as the treble channel. It gets way too fat above around 2 on the bass knob when running like that.

Thinking about attenuators, I really need to get around to building one of JohnH's from the diy thread. I bet I would like that thing more than my Weber.


----------



## 2203xman

I like the plexi with an attenuater.It keeps the tone manageable , and the THD even adds a bit of gain,and compression.


----------



## Zado

What? said:


> I'm willing to bet that it would be much louder with the winged C's in it. I will try them in it eventually. But jumping from the DSL50 with the winged C's in it now and the E34L's in the Plexi 51, the DSL50 is significantly louder. I mean, the Plexi 51 is loud but not disturbingly so right now as the DSL50 can get with those winged C's.


Shouldn't all el34s deliver more or less the same volume? 
About the DSL : it's just a naturally loud amp, a friend of mine has a dsl15 and it covers my Yeti 50 at times (modern era switch engaged)... Maybe it also delivers the right freqs, small wattage amps mean less bass, less bass means brighter, brighter means cuts better thru the mix


----------



## What?

Zado said:


> Shouldn't all el34s deliver more or less the same volume?
> About the DSL : it's just a naturally loud amp, a friend of mine has a dsl15 and it covers my Yeti 50 at times (modern era switch engaged)... Maybe it also delivers the right freqs, small wattage amps mean less bass, less bass means brighter, brighter means cuts better thru the mix



I would think so. But when I put swapped the E34L's in place of the winged C's, I noticed a a pretty dramatic increase in bass and drop in volume. The E34L's were biased the same as the winged C's. I took the amp to jam with a drummer that day and noticed that the volume was lower with my typical settings. I didn't investigate it further at the time, but I probably should, just to know. I did notice later with the DSL50 cranked up high (green channel, crunch button off) that the E34L's and winged C's didn't sound different in bass like they did at lower volumes.


----------



## Zado

What? said:


> I would think so. But when I put swapped the E34L's in place of the winged C's, I noticed a a pretty dramatic increase in bass and drop in volume. The E34L's were biased the same as the winged C's. I took the amp to jam with a drummer that day and noticed that the volume was lower with my typical settings. I didn't investigate it further at the time, but I probably should, just to know. I did notice later with the DSL50 cranked up high (green channel, crunch button off) that the E34L's and winged C's didn't sound different in bass like they did at lower volumes.



E34Ls are rather bassy sounding tubes, deliver quite some aggressione and compression but lack mids at times, which might the reason why I'm struggling at rehearsal with my Yeti on certain settings even against 15-20w amps (especially inherently bright ones). They sound good when playing solo, even very good I'd say, but in a dual guitar scenario make things a lil hard.

With that said, I had no idea they also decreased the overall volume of the amp , I'm quite shocked (and relieved in a sense). By how much volume considering the master of your amp? more or less ofc


----------



## Buzzard

Zado said:


> E34Ls are rather bassy sounding tubes, deliver quite some aggressione and compression but lack mids at times, which might the reason why I'm struggling at rehearsal with my Yeti on certain settings even against 15-20w amps (especially inherently bright ones). They sound good when playing solo, even very good I'd say, but in a dual guitar scenario make things a lil hard.
> 
> With that said, I had no idea they also decreased the overall volume of the amp , I'm quite shocked (and relieved in a sense). By how much volume considering the master of your amp? more or less ofc


How many watt amp is the yeti?


----------



## Zado

Buzzard said:


> How many watt amp is the yeti?


50w head in my case. Mind you, I use the modern mode, which is the quietest of the 3 by far.


----------



## Buzzard

I wonder if it’s worth it to just get a 100w then. Some amps need the xtra horsepower.


----------



## What?

Zado said:


> With that said, I had no idea they also decreased the overall volume of the amp , I'm quite shocked (and relieved in a sense). By how much volume considering the master of your amp? more or less ofc



That was my impression at lower to moderate volume settings with the DSL50. But don't take it as absolutely so. When I took the amp to play with the drummer, I wasn't pushing alot of volume. My kit that he was playing has a snare that isn't the loudest, so I had to keep it down a bit so as not to drown him out. But I could completely overcome that kit with the E34L's in the DSL50 through an openback 212 with not so efficient speakers (95db I think) at higher volume settings. I kept the amp's max loudness just to the point where the snare cut through when beating the crap out of it, which was below the amp's sweet spot. I'll put the winged C's in the Plexi 51 over the weekend and see what the situation is. I'm curious anyway to see if they cause any significant change in the sound in that amp compated to the E34L's that are in there, especially at higher volume.


----------



## Zado

Buzzard said:


> I wonder if it’s worth it to just get a 100w then. Some amps need the xtra horsepower.


For the Yeti depends on the mode you use. I dig the modern one, which is the gainer and fatter, but like said it's much quieter than both the 70 and the Plexi modes, which have no problem in a band context, tho it might not reach the loudness of legendary loud amps like a Splawn QR. 


What? said:


> That was my impression at lower to moderate volume settings with the DSL50. But don't take it as absolutely so. When I took the amp to play with the drummer, I wasn't pushing alot of volume. My kit that he was playing has a snare that isn't the loudest, so I had to keep it down a bit so as not to drown him out. But I could completely overcome that kit with the E34L's in the DSL50 through an openback 212 with not so efficient speakers (95db I think) at higher volume settings. I kept the amp's max loudness just to the point where the snare cut through when beating the crap out of it, which was below the amp's sweet spot. I'll put the winged C's in the Plexi 51 over the weekend and see what the situation is. I'm curious anyway to see if they cause any significant change in the sound in that amp compated to the E34L's that are in there, especially at higher volume.


Mmm let me know how things go with the Winged C, I'm honestly curious. Gonna swap the E34Ls for a couple of EH El34s anyway tho, I need some more cut in the high mids


----------



## ampeq

Buzzard said:


> I wonder if it’s worth it to just get a 100w then. Some amps need the xtra horsepower.


Buzzard, I have the Chupa 50w head and when I order my new one it will be a 100w version. (And I mostly play at the house these days.) It's really only a little louder but has better head room for clean and the big iron punch I like. The set up on the Yeti & Chupacabra allow you to play at any volume and with any amount of drive you like. I would say go 100w for sure if you play out a lot and don't mic the cab, they just seem better all around. Having 2 gain stages and a MV is a real treat, you can dial it anywhere you like at any volume you like.


----------



## Buzzard

I may go for the 100w yeti. Doug Steele has a video playing a bunch of different guitars through it. Really got a nice vh 2 and wacf tone ,more on the browner side. Whereas the chupacabra seems more on the aggressive brighter side.


----------



## ampeq

Buzzard said:


> I may go for the 100w yeti. Doug Steele has a video playing a bunch of different guitars through it. Really got a nice vh 2 and wacf tone ,more on the browner side. Whereas the chupacabra seems more on the aggressive brighter side.


That is true, slightly “darker” I would say, maybe a touch of Friedman-ish tone. Can’t go wrong either way, I would love to see a switch on the amp to go from Yeti to Chupa.


----------



## Buzzard

ampeq said:


> That is true, slightly “darker” I would say, maybe a touch of Friedman-ish tone. Can’t go wrong either way, I would love to see a switch on the amp to go from Yeti to Chupa.


YES! Why has this not been done? Are there too many components involved? Idk. Gotta ask mike.


----------



## Buzzard

Nik


----------



## Zado

Buzzard said:


> YES! Why has this not been done? Are there too many components involved? Idk. Gotta ask mike.


They are similar enough to make such switch redundant I guess


----------



## What?

Buzzard said:


> YES! Why has this not been done? Are there too many components involved? Idk. Gotta ask mike.



Hit him up. Maybe he will make that model happen. He will surely build you one custom, at a price.


----------



## Zado

What? said:


> Hit him up. Maybe he will make that model happen. He will surely build you one custom, at a price.


Hey what about your tube test? I'm waiting!


----------



## What?

Zado said:


> Hey what about your tube test? I'm waiting!



I'll do it today. Give me a bit. Before beer time for sure.


----------



## Zado

What? said:


> I'll do it today. Give me a bit. Before beer time for sure.


Here in Veneto there's no "before" or "after" beer time, only "during beer/wine/grappa time"


----------



## What?

Zado said:


> Here in Veneto there's no "before" or "after" beer time, only "during beer/wine/grappa time"



If I start beer time too early, nothing happens but more beer time.


----------



## What?

@Zado apologies for the delay. Since I first noticed the difference between the E34L's and winged C's in my DSL50, I went back to that for testing. I hate to say, but trying to be objective about it, I'm not confident in saying anything about the differences. The problem here is having to wait fifteen minutes or so between tube swaps and time to bias them. I used the Apex matched E34L's from the Plexi 51 for this, and they wouldn't bias lower than 40.5 mA per side, where the winged C's were sitting at 38mA. And I did think of recording it, but getting something out to where the amps are set up means using a portable recorder for now, and my confidence in it's abilities to not screw up the sound right now are pretty low. I have a firewire cable coming in so that I can use an old firewire interface for recording with my laptop. As long as my interface works with my laptop, I'll repeat the test and record it. I know that interface captures good quality sound. It's just a matter of whether my laptop is compatible with it, since firewire interfaces are picky about the host firewire chipset.

I also tried using a sound pressure level meter app. But with big changes in volume I was seeing barely any difference in the meter app, so I'm not confident that it has any kind of accuracy.


----------



## Zado

What? said:


> @Zado apologies for the delay. Since I first noticed the difference between the E34L's and winged C's in my DSL50, I went back to that for testing. I hate to say, but trying to be objective about it, I'm not confident in saying anything about the differences. The problem here is having to wait fifteen minutes or so between tube swaps and time to bias them. I used the Apex matched E34L's from the Plexi 51 for this, and they wouldn't bias lower than 40.5 mA per side, where the winged C's were sitting at 38mA. And I did think of recording it, but getting something out to where the amps are set up means using a portable recorder for now, and my confidence in it's abilities to not screw up the sound right now are pretty low. I have a firewire cable coming in so that I can use an old firewire interface for recording with my laptop. As long as my interface works with my laptop, I'll repeat the test and record it. I know that interface captures good quality sound. It's just a matter of whether my laptop is compatible with it, since firewire interfaces are picky about the host firewire chipset.
> 
> I also tried using a sound pressure level meter app. But with big changes in volume I was seeing barely any difference in the meter app, so I'm not confident that it has any kind of accuracy.



Wow I wasnt expecting this kind of test, more something out of sensations  
I appreciate your effort tho! No idea if db meter apps are somehow accurate, but honestly I guess it doesnt really matter what devices say at this point, in the end it's what you can actually hear that's really relevant, maybe it's not even a thing of volume but frequencies, and there's definitely and audible difference between powertubes at band volumes, some of them givin more troubles than others when it comes to mids. It's still an interesting experiment to do tho


----------



## What?

Zado said:


> Wow I wasnt expecting this kind of test, more something out of sensations
> I appreciate your effort tho! No idea if db meter apps are somehow accurate, but honestly I guess it doesnt really matter what devices say at this point, in the end it's what you can actually hear that's really relevant, maybe it's not even a thing of volume but frequencies, and there's definitely and audible difference between powertubes at band volumes, some of them givin more troubles than others when it comes to mids. It's still an interesting experiment to do tho



I'm letting the Plexi 51 cool down right now, and will swap in the winged C's shortly. Report back within the hour (no beer today  ). I'm in tube sniffin' mode right now.


----------



## What?

I set the Plexi 51 up for the breaking clean Malcolm thing. Man, I dig that sound. Bass channel has to be up past half, treble channel down pretty low. Still damn bright as you might want it and the treble channel volume is real touchy down there to find just the right balance. The winged C's are loud, but not crazy call the cops loud. No attenuator. Cooling down now for the E34L's to go back in...


----------



## What?

Without being able to make a trustworthy recording or measurement right now, I would say that the E34L's are probably a little more scooped and lower in volume with the amp cranked up. Not astronomically so. My very unscience-able perception here is that the winged C's sound a little better. But with so much time inbetween, I don't trust myself to say anything absolutely. So don't put too much merit in anything here.


----------



## trax1139

I’ll never understand the point of buying a Plexi style 50 or 100 watt head and then talking about MVs and attenuators.


----------



## What?

trax1139 said:


> I’ll never understand the point of buying a Plexi style 50 or 100 watt head and then talking about MVs and attenuators.



Attenuating alot surely has a bad effect on the sound to my ears. At least it does with my Weber Mass 200. But less attenuation isn't bad at all really, and it keeps the neighbors happy. In other words, playing lower volume with an attenuator is much preferred than either not playing at all or playing through a 'practice' amp. Also, a PPIMV gives similar results at higher settings, and it allows for a wider range of sounds at lower settings where there is a little more preamp gain and brightness than when using an attenuator for the same volume level. But if I could, I would play wide open all the time because shear volume is more fun.


----------



## junk notes

trax1139 said:


> I’ll never understand the point of buying a Plexi style 50 or 100 watt head and then talking about MVs and attenuators.


I would talk to Marshall about their PB-100 ;-)


----------



## trax1139

How ironic...an attenuator made by Marshall!


----------



## Sustainium

trax1139 said:


> I’ll never understand the point of buying a Plexi style 50 or 100 watt head and then talking about MVs and attenuators.


What amp are you using at home?


----------



## trax1139

Sustainium said:


> What amp are you using at home?


Germino JTM45
1960AV
1960AVHW


----------



## Sustainium

Nice rig, thanks for the pic! So do you just turn it up loud for tone and suffer, wear ear pro or just find acceptable tones at low volume?


----------



## What?

Sustainium said:


> Nice rig, thanks for the pic! So do you just turn it up loud for tone and suffer, wear ear pro or just find acceptable tones at low volume?



JTM45's and JTM50's actually aren't as loud as some people think. But even a champ can be loud to someone who isn't doing the playing.


----------



## Zado

What? said:


> Without being able to make a trustworthy recording or measurement right now, I would say that the E34L's are probably a little more scooped and lower in volume with the amp cranked up. Not astronomically so. My very unscience-able perception here is that the winged C's sound a little better. But with so much time inbetween, I don't trust myself to say anything absolutely. So don't put too much merit in anything here.



Well it's confirmed then! Doesn't really matter how scientific it is, music is a matter of feel afterall. I do believe myself that the E34L are a bit more scooped than your regular El34s due to the overflowing low end, and in fact they quite shine for modern rock genres, but didn't expect a volume decrease honestly.
I'm considering a swap for some EHs, I'm usually not a super fan of their 12ax7s (not in other amps at least) but their EL34s should serve right in a rather bassy amp like the Yeti, givin less boomy low end, more high mids and rawer highs. Well that's the theory anyway


----------



## trax1139

What? said:


> JTM45's and JTM50's actually aren't as loud as some people think. But even a champ can be loud to someone who isn't doing the playing.


Bingo


----------



## What?

Zado said:


> Well it's confirmed then! Doesn't really matter how scientific it is, music is a matter of feel afterall. I do believe myself that the E34L are a bit more scooped than your regular El34s due to the overflowing low end, and in fact they quite shine for modern rock genres, but didn't expect a volume decrease honestly.
> I'm considering a swap for some EHs, I'm usually not a super fan of their 12ax7s (not in other amps at least) but their EL34s should serve right in a rather bassy amp like the Yeti, givin less boomy low end, more high mids and rawer highs. Well that's the theory anyway



Audio can be a tricky muthasucka though. With the exact same setup and settings, one day I can be really liking what I'm hearing. The next day not so much. That tells me that my perception changes from day to day. A more scientific approach can sure help to clear things up sometimes.


----------



## trax1139

Sustainium said:


> Nice rig, thanks for the pic! So do you just turn it up loud for tone and suffer, wear ear pro or just find acceptable tones at low volume?


Never suffer...amp always cranked to a nice breakup and use guitar volume. A 6db boost pedal for little extra on solos and an analog tape delay. That’s it. 
Playing hard blues and classic rock...this is the ticket.


----------



## What?

trax1139 said:


> and an analog tape delay



Lucky you. Tape delay sounds wonderful.

On the volume thing, I think alot of it probably depends on how the amp is tubed too. If the amp is sounded icepick or harsh, of course no one is going to want to hear it turned up.


----------



## trax1139

What? said:


> Lucky you. Tape delay sounds wonderful.
> 
> On the volume thing, I think alot of it probably depends on how the amp is tubed too. If the amp is sounded icepick or harsh, of course no one is going to want to hear it turned up.


Yeah...it’s not so much how the amp is tubed, but, more so how the player “just sounds”. Most guys end up sounding like they sound no matter what they’re hooked up to or how big or small the rig. A lot of the problem in a band context is that the guitar player has his rig adjusted to sound good to his ears when he’s playing alone. A big part of the time that’s slightly scooped, a lot of treble and presence and way, way, way, waaay too much distortion and reverb all over it. Kick ass! Sounds like I’m playing in a coliseum! Put that in a band mix and it more than sucks! Now you can’t hear the guitar until you turn it up to the sky. The guitar sits in the middle of the audio spectrum, not to compete with the cymbals or be smothered by the bass. The best guitar sound (in a band mix) sits in the middle. Crank the mids to 10, bass at zero and see what happens to the mix and ultimately the volume. In blues and classic rock mostly, the deadliest thing to the sound of the band is way too much distortion on the guitar.


----------



## What?

Yea, too much gain can surely be an issue. The main Marshall sounds I tend to gravitate toward are early AC/DC. And it's easy here to get brightness and gain muxed up. For this sort of sound, I like to be able to get clean when playing gentler and really crunchy when digging in hard. I do like a little spring reverb for blues playing, but just enough to kind of fill in the complete silence gap between phrases. But I'm fine playing a Marshall style amp without it, not so much a Fender blackface amp.


----------



## What?

Another thought here. Judging and rolling tubes with an attenuated amp is a very bad idea.


----------



## Zado

What? said:


> Audio can be a tricky muthasucka though. With the exact same setup and settings, one day I can be really liking what I'm hearing. The next day not so much. That tells me that my perception changes from day to day. A more scientific approach can sure help to clear things up sometimes.


Yup, the "damn fat tone" of yesterday becomes the "muffled"of today!


What? said:


> Audio can be a tricky muthasucka though. With the exact same setup and settings, one day I can be really liking what I'm hearing. The next day not so much. That tells me that my perception changes from day to day. A more scientific approach can sure help to clear things up sometimes.


Yup, the "damn fat tone" of yesterday becomes the "muffled"of today!


What happened with that attenuator??


----------



## What?

I only meant that judging tubes with an attenuator running is bad because the sound can definitely get changed enough to diminish any differences, making them all sound the same.


----------



## What?

So far this amp is the closest I have owned or played to the core sounds I love. It can do SRV territory with a strat using essentially the same bright and crunchy starting point that I use for getting early AC/DC territory sounds with a humbucker loaded guitar, and also a raucous sort of low gain punk rock sound that I was never able to satisfactorily get from other amps but was always searching for.

I think most people probably wouldn't think SRV with a plexi, but it's pretty convincing at getting the spirit of that sound to me ears. I'm hearing someone on youtube right now doing the same with an SV20.


----------



## Zado

What? said:


> So far this amp is the closest I have owned or played to the core sounds I love. It can do SRV territory with a strat using essentially the same bright and crunchy starting point that I use for getting early AC/DC territory sounds with a humbucker loaded guitar, and also a raucous sort of low gain punk rock sound that I was never able to satisfactorily get from other amps but was always searching for.
> 
> I think most people probably wouldn't think SRV with a plexi, but it's pretty convincing at getting the spirit of that sound to me ears. I'm hearing someone on youtube right now doing the same with an SV20.



So it's a worthy amp in your experience?


----------



## What?

Zado said:


> So it's a worthy amp in your experience?



Yes, but I think it is the 1987 circuit in general, not so much this specific amp. It is nice at times that this amp has the various switches, but that can also be a big distraction. I could leave all of the switches at one setting and be happy with the sound of the amp. Also, I'm finding that I have gravitated toward using my attenuator while leaving the PPIMV at full (bypassed). I mentioned in another thread that I would be content with the JTM50 circuit without all the extra options. One thing that I will play with is a different bright cap value. Of the 3 switching options, I leave it at 1000pF with the high control below half. I think I would prefer a value between 250pF and 1000pF.


----------



## 2203xman

Thanks for the review and testing.I am testing a pile of old 12ax7 tubes this morning.I need to order the GZ34,and will most likely order nee EL 34's.I ordered my amp without tubes to save a few bucks.I will most likely use the Tung Sol EL 34 Bs,they have proven to be a reliable tube for cranking your power amp section for me in the past.But.....this wait sucks.


----------



## What?

2203xman said:


> Thanks for the review and testing.I am testing a pile of old 12ax7 tubes this morning.I need to order the GZ34,and will most likely order nee EL 34's.I ordered my amp without tubes to save a few bucks.I will most likely use the Tung Sol EL 34 Bs,they have proven to be a reliable tube for cranking your power amp section for me in the past.But.....this wait sucks.



The wait is excruciatingly long. Mine was about 4 months. As time goes on, I'm digging this amp more. There definitely has been a learning curve with it, not having owned a non-master volume Marshall type amp before. I'm really digging it right now with a strat.


----------



## 2203xman

Yeah,the strat works great with a plexi.Helps to uncluttered that bottom end.


----------



## Zado

Any further experimentations?


----------



## What?

I just got a cable in the mail the other day that I needed for my audio interface, which took weeks to arrive. It was stuck at USPS in LA, if you know about what has been going on with the U.S. postal service lately. I'll have some time off in another week and will see if I can get some half decent recordings. I did some playing around yesterday and today with recording, and the differences really stand out between an attenuator and the PPIMV with certain settings. I tried to record it before with my portable recorder (Zoom H4N) but the mic preamps on the prortable recorder crunch things up so much when recording higher volumes that I couldn't really demonstrate the differences well. Anyway, I suspected that the mic preamps in my portable recorder weren't doing me any favors, and I was right. The mic preamps in my old firewire interface sound quite a bit better. I'm not finding that portable recorder to be nearly as convenient and useful as I thought it would be. It really needs to be mounted to a mic stand to keep it from moving around when plugging mics into it, there is too much menu diving involved for very simple things, and now I'm realizing the mic preamps aren't so good for recording guitar amps.

Any hoo, here is one of the throwaway recordings. Super bright and crunchy strat stuff. I had to do some eq'ing to knock back the highs and mids some. It's really bright and aggressive in person and comes across too mids focused in a recording. And I added a small reverb just for a bit of stereo imaging. All to try and better represent what I'm hearing in person. https://app.box.com/s/x2p5gxa9hdoifgfgylcoc8ym0729yei4

No way in hell I could get that sort of sound out of my DSL50. The DSL50 green channel with an eq pedal can get chimey and very bright but not nearly that aggressive and dynamic.


----------



## 2203xman

Great tone.It's bright,but I still hear those lower mids.Good sound for Thin Lizzy,AC/DC,all my favorite stuff.


----------



## Zado

Ok that's definitely a great, Impressive sound. In real life it must be really something to die for.


----------



## malice95

Just emailed Nik to upgrade my Plexi51 to a 101 and changed my 2204 to a Molecular 100. Very excited!

Regarding the wait... 
"Currently, we're at mid-late July orders for the amps. We could be running slightly late on them, but shouldn’t be that long" 

So I'm still 2-4 weeks out (ordered Aug 17th).


----------



## What?

malice95 said:


> Just emailed Nik to upgrade my Plexi51 to a 101 and changed my 2204 to a Molecular 100. Very excited!
> 
> Regarding the wait...
> "Currently, we're at mid-late July orders for the amps. We could be running slightly late on them, but shouldn’t be that long"
> 
> So I'm still 2-4 weeks out (ordered Aug 17th).



Damn. And I thought my wait time was long. 7-8 months is a looong freaking time. I guess Ceriatone is getting alot of orders this year.


----------



## ampeq

Most of there “modded” style amps are so very versatile, I’m still discovering new stuff from my Chupacabra. I just found out how to run it like a non master volume amp, you set the drive-2 to 9:30 and dime the MV then adjust the volume with drive-1. Very Plexiish. Some of the settings they tell you to use are SO loud.

I’m ready to order my 100w Chupa, not sure I like the sound of 7-8 months! Dame, and I want a special order one so I’m sure it will be way longer.


----------



## What?

ampeq said:


> Some of the settings they tell you to use are SO loud.



Ha ha. The Plexi 51 absolutely sounds it's best in person when not using any attenuation or the PPIMV, just straight cranking it up and letting it do it's thing unimpeded. There is more overall detail in the lows and elsewhere that way. I guess it would be similar for the Chupacabra set for classic sounds. Personally, I don't find the Plexi 51 to be all that loud, but I'm sure others will disagree. To me, it's output level is about right for getting engaged with the sound. The only way I could see myself needing more headroom with a 100 watter would be for playing outdoors, and not for small parties. When I set up a 50 watter outside and let it rip, my neighbors tell me that it sounds like a rock concert in a stadium. Ha ha. They don't know what loud is. Both my DSL50 and the Plexi 51 are loud enough though that playing live with a drummer without any attenuation would require miking up the kit and using a sub to get the drum levels up to par.


----------



## EndGame00

Coming from a high gain amp player like myself, switching over to lower gain, plexi style circuit, it took some adjustment playing and hearing-wise....


----------



## TheOtherEric

ampeq said:


> ...
> 
> I’m ready to order my 100w Chupa, not sure I like the sound of 7-8 months! Dame, and I want a special order one so I’m sure it will be way longer.


They’re currently delivering orders placed 14-15 weeks ago, and they’re quoting 14 week max if you order today. That 7-8 months was a misreading of a post above (when Nik said he’s working on “July orders” he meant orders placed this July, not orders to be delivered next July.)


----------



## ampeq

TheOtherEric said:


> They’re currently delivering orders placed 14-15 weeks ago, and they’re quoting 14 week max if you order today. That 7-8 months was a misreading of a post above (when Nik said he’s working on “July orders” he meant orders placed this July, not orders to be delivered next July.)


Thanks man! I appreciate it, I’ll start emailing him tomorrow. I think I’ll try a 2202 combo as well, just to see what all the hype is about. I’m really looking forward to seeing how much of the extra stuff Nik can do for me on the 100w Chupa.


----------



## PrettyGood

I'm on the fence. I would like to hear if the plexi50 can match my splawn quick rod gain (see my clip) I've yet to find anything as brutal as splawn. This plexi50 is looking like a contender.


----------



## What?

PrettyGood said:


> I'm on the fence. I would like to hear if the plexi50 can match my splawn quick rod gain (see my clip) I've yet to find anything as brutal as splawn. This plexi50 is looking like a contender.




That sounds like a different sort of amp to me, almost like a scooped 2203. To me, a plexi sort of amp is more about having a dynamic range on tap that can go from almost clean to full grind, dependent on your playing dynamics and minor guitar volume knob adjustments along the way. And lots of mids that cut. What I'm hearing from that Splawn seems to be more about a full on sound with a dominant bottom end. It isn't that the sound of the amp is really scooped, but there is so much bottom that it gives that appearance. When I listen through my laptop speakers, I hear that the mids definitely there. When I listen through high quality headphones, the bottom takes over big time.


----------



## PrettyGood

What? said:


> That sounds like a different sort of amp to me, almost like a scooped 2203. To me, a plexi sort of amp is more about having a dynamic range on tap that can go from almost clean to full grind, dependent on your playing dynamics and minor guitar volume knob adjustments along the way. And lots of mids that cut. What I'm hearing from that Splawn seems to be more about a full on sound with a dominant bottom end. It isn't that the sound of the amp is really scooped, but there is so much bottom that it gives that appearance. When I listen through my laptop speakers, I hear that the mids definitely there. When I listen through high quality headphones, the bottom takes over big time.



I hear you.. I have the mids scooped and bass on 6. Then you have to take into consideration youtube compression totally changes the original recording too. That said, I ordered a chupra from Scott at guitarampausa.com and also looking at the plexi50. I want a ton of gain on tap while still retaining definition and plexi voicing if that makes sense. I'm not comparing eq as everyone has their own thing.


----------



## 2203xman

PrettyGood said:


> I hear you.. I have the mids scooped and bass on 6. Then you have to take into consideration youtube compression totally changes the original recording too. That said, I ordered a chupra from Scott at guitarampausa.com and also looking at the plexi50. I want a ton of gain on tap while still retaining definition and plexi voicing if that makes sense. I'm not comparing eq as everyone has their own thing.


Chupa sounds like your type of amp.A plexi is not a high gain beast.A plexi is more classic rock.


----------



## EndGame00

Either the Chupa or Molecular would right up your alley.... The Plexi 51 is basically a Plexi with different modes....


----------



## What?

EndGame00 said:


> Either the Chupa or Molecular would right up your alley.... The Plexi 51 is basically a Plexi with different modes....



More precisely, the 51 has a bunch of switches for changing component values.

And btw, I have taken to liking the two position Char switch. One position gives fuller mids, with the other being more scooped. The scooped position helps in getting Fender'ish cleaner sounds with a strat. Also, I really do wish that all the switch positions had been labeled in the screen printing of the panels. A cheat sheet could work just as well until the values and effects of switching are memorized, but in the beginning it's easy to forget what is happening when flipping the various switches.

Also a little update on my thoughts on the Plexi 51. It seems that all the Ceriatone 50 watters are probably using the same transformers. I only looked at a few amps though. If a person is unsure of what type of amp he might be wanting and is willing to do some modding to find out, it might be a good idea to go with a high gain model, where it would likely be easier to wind back to plexi specs than the other way around. The chassis of a high gain model would already be fitted with the extra preamp tube for higher gain circuits. Taking a look at pictures of various 50 watter Ceriatone amps the other day, it did look like the Plexi 51 chassis is shorter than the chassis for one of the hot-rodded 2204 amps, for example. Also, given that there isn't any great difference between the GZ34 tube rectifier and solid state rectifier, I wouldn't be concerned with that aspect. I do wonder here if the power transformer being used in these amps could provide enough current for other rectifiers. It might be nice to try something that has more sag. Maybe a sag resistor would serve just as well here. Not having experience with comparing to a more saggy rectifier, I can't say.


----------



## PrettyGood

Hi Shane,



I would definitely have to recommend the Plexi51 All Access. Combining '68 circuit selection with a higher NFB resistor (ie less NFB), as well as things like the V2A bypass cap, and boost, would definitely get classic Plexi vibes, but with more gain, and the PPIMV allows it at lower volumes.



Nik at Ceriatone said the same.



Thanks!



Scott







*To:* Guitar Amps USA
*Subject:* Re: Enquiry 


Which hot plexi would you recommend as the most brutal while still in a 60's marshall plexi vibe? I don't play modern. I like the Eddie marshall brown sound and compression but prefer a bit more crunch. I also like a deep and buttery low end. Not a tight low end. But I do like a lot of low end as the G12M 25w pre rola speakers I use don't have as much low end as the Chinese G12M reissues. 

I already bought a chupra. This will be another purchase.


----------



## What?

I would not describe the Plexi 51 as being anything in the realm of brutal, or even quite EVH territory. I could be missing something here of course, but I have had my Plexi 51 switches configured in every sort of way, straight in and boosted and with various guitars and pickups from lower output to higher output humbuckers and single coils. If Steve and Nik are saying otherwise, I would love to hear some sound clips demonstrating it. I have not found that territory in my amp. But I wasn't looking to get anything like that from this amp.


----------



## Zado

I'm a lil surprised as well to see the Plexi51 suggested as option to cover Splawn ground, the QR has gallons of gain,and AFAIK the Plexi51 doesnt even reach Chupa/Yeti levels of distortion. Ask for some settings, I'm definitely curious about this. A boost was mentioned, so I guess that's the biggest part of the equation, a properly boosted Superlead can get pretty damn heavy.


----------



## What?

Zado said:


> I'm a lil surprised as well to see the Plexi51 suggested as option to cover Splawn ground, the QR has gallons of gain,and AFAIK the Plexi51 doesnt even reach Chupa/Yeti levels of distortion. Ask for some settings, I'm definitely curious about this. A boost was mentioned, so I guess that's the biggest part of the equation, a properly boosted Superlead can get pretty damn heavy.



More clipping via boosting a smaller number of cleaner stages (driving the whole amp more into clipping) sounds different than more clipping via adding another gain stage and other amp circuit changes (more preamp gain).


----------



## Buzzard

Ok your blowing my mind. Lol. This amp has been on my list. First off, you don’t notice much of a difference going from ss/ to tube rectifier ? Also , even with the ppimv master it dosent get into early EVH levels of gain? If so you may have just saved me a lot of money!


----------



## 2203xman

Buzzard said:


> Ok your blowing my mind. Lol. This amp has been on my list. First off, you don’t notice much of a difference going from ss/ to tube rectifier ? Also , even with the ppimv master it dosent get into early EVH levels of gain? If so you may have just saved me a lot of money!


Ppimv wont add gain to your plexi.It only brings the overall volume down,but in a way that I didn't care for.It lasted only a day in my 1987x.


----------



## What?

Buzzard said:


> Ok your blowing my mind. Lol. This amp has been on my list. First off, you don’t notice much of a difference going from ss/ to tube rectifier ? Also , even with the ppimv master it dosent get into early EVH levels of gain? If so you may have just saved me a lot of money!



The biggest difference in rectifiers is supposedly how much voltage they provide. The voltage provided from a GZ34 isn't so far away from a solid state rectifier, so there isn't alot of difference between them in how the amp responds. Other rectifiers provide significantly less voltage, so there will be more of a difference. It seems like we have hit on this point before in this thread.

At the same channel volume settings, when using the PPIMV the amp sounds much the same down to maybe 7 on the dial. After that, the power section begins to be pushed noticeably less and the sound becomes less compressed (less fat). Going way down on the dial, the amp gets thin, because the power section isn't being pushed at all really. With the PPIMV bypassed (turned all the way up), turning up the channel volumes causes the amp to get more compressed and then looser. The PPIMV and channel volumes can be balanced out for higher channel volumes (gain) that doesn't get so loose as without the PPIMV. But the amp still doesn't get into what I would consider to be high gain territory. It's very much a mid gain amp. And it has a forward mids rawness to the sound, so don't expect it to sound scooped for example, or smoother like say a JCM800 or a higher gain amp.

I guess what I'm hearing in that Van Halen sound is more gain (clipping) in the higher frequencies than in the lower frequencies. So I think it isn't so much a matter of amount of gain, but where in the spectrum clipping is happening more and less. To me, the Plexi 51 sounds like a different animal.


----------



## What?

2203xman said:


> Ppimv wont add gain to your plexi.It only brings the overall volume down,but in a way that I didn't care for.It lasted only a day in my 1987x.



No, it doesn't add gain. But it does allow for turning up the channel volumes higher (effectively more gain) while keeping things tighter than without a PPIMV. I don't see a downside at all to having a PPIMV. At full, it is out of the circuit. At down to around 7, it keeps the sound of the amp in tact well but with less volume. And if turning the channel volumes up higher to the point where the amp would otherwise get much looser, it allows for keeping the amp sounding tighter. And the amp does thin out alot at low PPIMV settings, but it still provides a good means for playing a plexi type amp at low volume for practice, which sounds better to my ears than running a smaller amp, a solid state amp, or a modeler. I think it's a great option to have in an amp. I would like to compare it to a Friedman style master volume though, just to see what the differences in sound are.


----------



## 2203xman

Yeah,no real downside to leaving it in for me other than me not being 100% sure that all was well with the amp after my Joe grinder bench installation.I noticed some change in the bias when using the ppimv,with my bias probe attached.I played the amp all day,with no major issues,no red plating .But after being dissapointed with the tone I decided it would give me peace of mind to return the amp back to stock.I guess I felt like an overprotective parent with my amp.Anyway,looking forward to another 1987.I have about 6 weeks to go.


----------



## What?

2203xman said:


> Yeah,no real downside to leaving it in for me other than me not being 100% sure that all was well with the amp after my Joe grinder bench installation.I noticed some change in the bias when using the ppimv,with my bias probe attached.I played the amp all day,with no major issues,no red plating .But after being dissapointed with the tone I decided it would give me peace of mind to return the amp back to stock.I guess I felt like an overprotective parent with my amp.Anyway,looking forward to another 1987.I have about 6 weeks to go.



Interesting on the bias changing. What type of PPIMV was that? The type that Ceriatone is using is a LarMar.


----------



## 2203xman

What? said:


> Interesting on the bias changing. What type of PPIMV was that? The type that Ceriatone is using is a LarMar.


LarMar type 2 with the stacked pots.


----------



## TheOtherEric

A couple guys in the Ceriatone Facebook group say the Plexi51 does get them to EVH territory. No clips demonstrating it, though. But it's certainly safe to say you won't be getting MORE crunch than the brown sound. Certainly not that Splawn sound (sounds like JCM 800 to me).

They say its PPIMV works well too. I also have a Ceriatone mini-Kleinulator ss loop buffer that I plan to use in combination with the PPIMI to control the volume of my Plexi51 when it arrives in a couple months. Will this idea work well? Meh who knows.

EDIT: after owning a P51, no you CANNOT get an EVH brown sound with it. Feels like the gain goes to 9 but you need a 10.


----------



## ampeq

PrettyGood said:


> I'm on the fence. I would like to hear if the plexi50 can match my splawn quick rod gain (see my clip) I've yet to find anything as brutal as splawn. This plexi50 is looking like a contender.



I would think the Yeti or Molecular, both seem darker like a Splawn. I had a Streetrod combo, now have a Chupacabra and love it.


----------



## 2203xman

TheOtherEric said:


> A couple guys in the Ceriatone Facebook group say the Plexi51 does get them to EVH territory. No clips demonstrating it, though. But it's certainly safe to say you won't be getting MORE crunch than the brown sound. Certainly not that Splawn sound (sounds like JCM 800 to me).Yeah some great tones,and much love for the plexi 51 on that page!Gets me excited,about a month to go.
> 
> They say its PPIMV works well too. I also have a Ceriatone mini-Kleinulator ss loop buffer that I plan to use in combination with the PPIMI to control the volume of my Plexi51 when it arrives in a couple months. Will this idea work well? Meh who knows.


----------



## What?

TheOtherEric said:


> A couple guys in the Ceriatone Facebook group say the Plexi51 does get them to EVH territory. No clips demonstrating it, though. But it's certainly safe to say you won't be getting MORE crunch than the brown sound. Certainly not that Splawn sound (sounds like JCM 800 to me).
> 
> They say its PPIMV works well too. I also have a Ceriatone mini-Kleinulator ss loop buffer that I plan to use in combination with the PPIMI to control the volume of my Plexi51 when it arrives in a couple months. Will this idea work well? Meh who knows.



Yea, I would say to that to show you via recorded sound clips. Those guy's perceptions of EVH tone might be very different than yours. If you can get a list of settings from them, I would be glad to record sound clips myself using those settings.


----------



## 2203xman

The plexi51 clips that I have heard on that site sound good,but to me much more AC/DC than VH sounding.And for me that is just fine,I love that sound so much.A lot of vids on that site have the amps boosted with the "horsie" boost......lol! Anyway,I have a feeling that I will like this amp.The fawn tolex is different than what I imagined after seeing it on that page,but it will ceartanly be a non typical looking plexi.About 5 weeks out.


----------



## TheOtherEric

What? said:


> Yea, I would say to that to show you via recorded sound clips. Those guy's perceptions of EVH tone might be very different than yours. If you can get a list of settings from them, I would be glad to record sound clips myself using those settings.


Very cool of you to offer! If the Plexi51 can’t do a good EVH out of the box, my process will be: (1) K-lator to help out the PPIMV, (2) boost pedal, like an EP Boost or my Echoplex EP-3, (3) the M2 attenuator guys here are using, and if all that fails then (4) my Wampler Pinnacle pedal, which does a great brown sound on my Son of Yeti.


----------



## iwuk78

FWIW, I asked Nik for an update yesterday, and he told me they are building early to mid August amps right now. 
Ordered my 101 Aug 30th. Nik said it will probably be a couple more weeks. 

Hoping before Christmas


----------



## scozz

Buzzard said:


> I get the feeling that back in the day they favored small amp or no amps in the studio and the out of necessity used the big amps live because they flat out had to.


This is very true,...and I remember hearing, reading, and seeing, (in pics), about small amps in the studio. Amps like Fender Champs and Deluxe Reverbs, Suhrs, original Magnatone amps etc,....


----------



## scozz

What? said:


> I'll see what some tube swapping does and go from there. Sound is a funny thing though, where the ears seem to change somewhat from day to day.


Oh yeah, that is a thing, definitely! I’ve experienced it a number of times, I bet we all have if you think about it.

Some days my amps sound sooo damn good that I almost cream my shorts! Other days, not quite so much. Now I’m talking about very subtle differences here, nothing drastic. 

Granted, the ‘good tone days’ are way more frequent than the ‘not so good tone days’. Thankfully the ‘not so good tone days are few and far between,...but it’s definitely a thing.

It’s just the way humans hear things I guess, it’s just _*NOT *_always the same.


----------



## malice95

It finally came! (so did I when I heard it). Aug 15th to Dec 30th! Its a Plexi 101. I should have a Molecular 100 show up in a week to so also. Amazing sounding amp. To my ears it sounds just like the Plexi I used to have years ago. Can easily get mean at reasonable volume. Very Happy with the purchase. Nik makes great amps but the wait does suck.

Gratuitous bragging pictures below 

View media item 12297View media item 12298View media item 12299


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## Zado

malice95 said:


> It finally came! (so did I when I heard it). Aug 15th to Dec 30th! Its a Plexi 101. I should have a Molecular 100 show up in a week to so also. Amazing sounding amp. To my ears it sounds just like the Plexi I used to have years ago. Can easily get mean at reasonable volume. Very Happy with the purchase. Nik makes great amps but the wait does suck.
> 
> Gratuitous bragging pictures below
> 
> View media item 12297View media item 12298View media item 12299


----------



## ampeq

malice95 said:


> It finally came! (so did I when I heard it). Aug 15th to Dec 30th! Its a Plexi 101. I should have a Molecular 100 show up in a week to so also. Amazing sounding amp. To my ears it sounds just like the Plexi I used to have years ago. Can easily get mean at reasonable volume. Very Happy with the purchase. Nik makes great amps but the wait does suck.
> 
> Gratuitous bragging pictures below
> 
> View media item 12297View media item 12298View media item 12299


Awesome! Congratulations on a sweet set up. This with the Molecular and a tube switch pedal would make about the best 2 ch system you could ever want. I have a 50w Chupacabra but am going to order another one with 100w and some type of 2 ch set up very soon. I also have a 2202 combo on order along with a Horse Breaker pedal, coming soon I hope. The 101 is the 2nd ch I really want with the Chupa in one head. He's going to help me design and build it in the near future. Please let us know how the 101 works out.


----------



## TheOtherEric

malice95 said:


> It finally came! ...
> 
> Gratuitous bragging pictures below
> ...


Amazing amp collection! 

Now, about those guitars....


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## 2203xman

Plexi 51 coming soon! Congrats on your 101!!


----------



## solarburn

What? said:


> More precisely, the 51 has a bunch of switches for changing component values.
> 
> And btw, I have taken to liking the two position Char switch. One position gives fuller mids, with the other being more scooped. The scooped position helps in getting Fender'ish cleaner sounds with a strat. Also, I really do wish that all the switch positions had been labeled in the screen printing of the panels. A cheat sheet could work just as well until the values and effects of switching are memorized, but in the beginning it's easy to forget what is happening when flipping the various switches.
> 
> Also a little update on my thoughts on the Plexi 51. It seems that all the Ceriatone 50 watters are probably using the same transformers. I only looked at a few amps though. If a person is unsure of what type of amp he might be wanting and is willing to do some modding to find out, it might be a good idea to go with a high gain model, where it would likely be easier to wind back to plexi specs than the other way around. The chassis of a high gain model would already be fitted with the extra preamp tube for higher gain circuits. Taking a look at pictures of various 50 watter Ceriatone amps the other day, it did look like the Plexi 51 chassis is shorter than the chassis for one of the hot-rodded 2204 amps, for example. Also, given that there isn't any great difference between the GZ34 tube rectifier and solid state rectifier, I wouldn't be concerned with that aspect. I do wonder here if the power transformer being used in these amps could provide enough current for other rectifiers. It might be nice to try something that has more sag. Maybe a sag resistor would serve just as well here. Not having experience with comparing to a more saggy rectifier, I can't say.



Id go SS rectifier over the tube. You ever have a tube rectifier blow? It's not a clean blow. Takes shit with it.

So did you get the amp or are you stuck in cerebral hump whether to pull the trigger? Looking to catch up quick.

Edit: looks like you got it.


----------



## solarburn

What? said:


> So far this amp is the closest I have owned or played to the core sounds I love. It can do SRV territory with a strat using essentially the same bright and crunchy starting point that I use for getting early AC/DC territory sounds with a humbucker loaded guitar, and also a raucous sort of low gain punk rock sound that I was never able to satisfactorily get from other amps but was always searching for.
> 
> I think most people probably wouldn't think SRV with a plexi, but it's pretty convincing at getting the spirit of that sound to me ears. I'm hearing someone on youtube right now doing the same with an SV20.



A Strat/plexi doing SRV? Absolutely. And many more lovely tones. You and me have very like tastes.

Congratz man. Sounds like my kinda amp for sure.


----------



## What?

Congrats malice95. The white cab looks sweet too. Keep us updated as you play the amp more. And I would love to hear some sounds from the new beast if you can make a recording.


----------



## What?

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Id go SS rectifier over the tube. You ever have a tube rectifier blow? It's not a clean blow. Takes shit with it.



Not yet, knock on wood. The Plexi 51 does have backup diodes, so hopefully I will get a big clue if the JJ tube rec goes down. I did ask Nik if he had any issues yet with the JJ rectifiers, and he said that he hasn't seen any.

Also, there are a few soundclips scatttered throughout this thread from when I first got the amp. I meant to post more but things picked up at work ,and then I got sick for a bit on top of it. Hell of a year it's been. Here's to hoping that 2021 makes up for it.

And by the way, I picked up an old variac recently, so I'll give that a go soon and see what's what. And if I hear anything at lower voltages worth noting I'll post a recording here. I'll report back here on it either way. More than anything, I'm really curious to hear my old super reverb with it at lower voltage how it was designed to run.


----------



## solarburn

What? said:


> Not yet, knock on wood. The Plexi 51 does have backup diodes, so hopefully I will get a big clue if the JJ tube rec goes down. I did ask Nik if he had any issues yet with the JJ rectifiers, and he said that he hasn't seen any.
> 
> Also, there are a few soundclips scatttered throughout this thread from when I first got the amp. I meant to post more but things picked up at work ,and then I got sick for a bit on top of it. Hell of a year it's been. Here's to hoping that 2021 makes up for it.
> 
> And by the way, I picked up an old variac recently, so I'll give that a go soon and see what's what. And if I hear anything at lower voltages worth noting I'll post a recording here. I'll report back here on it either way. More than anything, I'm really curious to hear my old super reverb with it at lower voltage how it was designed to run.



If the amp isn't cathode biased remember to rebias after lowering voltage. I didn't know that at first but the amp I was lowering voltage on was cathode biased. I hear power tubes will wear out sooner.


----------



## What?

2203xman said:


> Plexi 51 coming soon! Congrats on your 101!!



I know you have mentioned it, but I forget when yours was due to arrive.


----------



## 2203xman

What? said:


> I know you have mentioned it, but I forget when yours was due to arrive.


It was scheduled to be built on dec 29 but Nik and crew took a needed break,so I expect it to be built this coming week sometime.The fawn tolex should make for a really unique plexi.Been checking out ceriatone's facebook page,great stuff.Everyone seems happy with their amps.


----------



## iwuk78

2203xman said:


> It was scheduled to be built on dec 29 but Nik and crew took a needed break,so I expect it to be built this coming week sometime.The fawn tolex should make for a really unique plexi.Been checking out ceriatone's facebook page,great stuff.Everyone seems happy with their amps.



I asked for an update on mine yesterday, and Nik told me they are behind. There are 8 ahead of mine, which he said would be another 2 weeks or so.
I think you ordered a couple weeks after me, so may be a while yet for you too


----------



## What?

The wait is excruciatingly long.


----------



## 2203xman

iwuk78 said:


> I asked for an update on mine yesterday, and Nik told me they are behind. There are 8 ahead of mine, which he said would be another 2 weeks or so.
> I think you ordered a couple weeks after me, so may be a while yet for you too


Yeah,most likely will be a few more weeks.Seems the tubes I ordered are running behind in the mail too.Went with shuagangs,I always liked how they sound.


----------



## TheOtherEric

2203xman said:


> It was scheduled to be built on dec 29 but Nik and crew took a needed break,so I expect it to be built this coming week sometime.The fawn tolex should make for a really unique plexi.Been checking out ceriatone's facebook page,great stuff.Everyone seems happy with their amps.


I see you ordered Sep 15, so that puts his lead time around 16-17 weeks. Yikes. He was quoting 10-14 when I ordered in late Oct, so I’m guessing he won’t make that 14 weeks. Damn.


----------



## Dean Swindell

I've been eyeballing their amps for some time. I got their 50 watt Jubilee and didn't like it at all. This 51 looks really nice although all the switches are a bit off putting. Maybe Ceriatone should be the one to take the idea behind the Vintage Modern, only this time get it right; use the 1987 as a springboard.


----------



## 2203xman

2202 is on my radar,have to start hiding some cash from wifey.


----------



## What?

I took a clue from Peter Ocsenas and picked up a Fender Engager recently to use with the Plexi 51, which I got around to trying today. You want one of these (or a similar boost/eq pedal...not graphic eq) with this amp. Using it and the amp controls brings it right into 2204 territory to my ears. Not so much a ton more gain like adding a gain stage, but fatter bottom, beefier lower mids, presence, and general flexibility. I have only tested with a strat so far, but I'm digging it for sure. Will tinker more tomorrow with humbuckers. I'm also liking more now than initially with this amp the Digitech Supernatural that I picked up a while back. Work is keeping me too busy lately so I haven't had alot of time to tinker with things or play much, including trying the variax.


----------



## 2203xman

Biggest beef I'm seeing on the Ceriatone FB site is controlling the volume.That wont be any issue for me.I'm used to that in any NMV amp.I will try a combination of the 1/2 power switch,ppimv and my hot plate.I'm just hoping for a smooth sounding amp.


----------



## ampeq

2203xman said:


> 2202 is on my radar,have to start hiding some cash from wifey.


I have a 2202 combo coming in a week or two, I added a choke, NFB switch and buff. loop. That amp will come in at about 7 weeks from order. (4-6 was the target) Its in testing right now and should ship next week. I also have a Chupacabra that I love, I think it is the best sounding British style amp I’ve ever played. I’ve been waiting for them to get caught up a bit to order a custom 2ch Chupa in 100w. When I talked to Nik last week he said we could start drawing it up now. Basically I want either 2 full Chupa’s in it, or a Chupa and something like a Plexi 101 in it. I also want a lead boost and separate buffered loops. If I liked collecting amps I would have about 10 from these guys.


----------



## ampeq

Dean Swindell said:


> I've been eyeballing their amps for some time. I got their 50 watt Jubilee and didn't like it at all. This 51 looks really nice although all the switches are a bit off putting. Maybe Ceriatone should be the one to take the idea behind the Vintage Modern, only this time get it right; use the 1987 as a springboard.


I don’t care for the Jubilee but the 2525 they make is supposed to be one of the best Jubes ever.


----------



## JM5010

malice95 said:


> It finally came! (so did I when I heard it). Aug 15th to Dec 30th! Its a Plexi 101. I should have a Molecular 100 show up in a week to so also. Amazing sounding amp. To my ears it sounds just like the Plexi I used to have years ago. Can easily get mean at reasonable volume. Very Happy with the purchase. Nik makes great amps but the wait does suck.
> 
> Gratuitous bragging pictures below
> 
> View media item 12297View media item 12298View media item 12299


is this the one with the dookie mod? i’d love to hear it


----------



## 2203xman

17 weeks out now,still no amp.I am not sorry that I ordered,but the wait is very long.One consulation is the fact that the wait is due to a burst of popularity within a relatively small company.They have some really cool amps out,and Nik is one cool guy to work with.Mr Terry Shaffer ran his business in this very personal way,and it is so refreshing in the fast paced times that we live in.So... patient I will be.


----------



## What?

2203xman said:


> 17 weeks out now,still no amp.I am not sorry that I ordered,but the wait is very long.One consulation is the fact that the wait is due to a burst of popularity within a relatively small company.They have some really cool amps out,and Nik is one cool guy to work with.Mr Terry Shaffer ran his business in this very personal way,and it is so refreshing in the fast paced times that we live in.So... patient I will be.



It felt like forever and a day waiting on mine. 

I'm just noticing in your sig that you have a 1987x. Would love to hear your thoughts on how the 51 compares to the 1987x after you get yours.


----------



## Buzzard

Does the amp have to be paid in full up front?


----------



## Gene Ballzz

That Plexi-51 looks to be the *"Swiss Army Knife"* of Marshall style! I wonder if its a *"Jack of all trades, master of none"* or actually really good at some of its supposed capabilities? I'd love to see a 20 watt version!
Just Sayin'
Gene


----------



## TheOtherEric

2203xman said:


> 17 weeks out now,still no amp...


Wow, sorry to hear that. Mine will be overdue after this week, so I’ll be in the same sad sad boat.


Gene Ballzz said:


> That Plexi-51 looks to be the *"Swiss Army Knife"* of Marshall style! I wonder if its a *"Jack of all trades, master of none"* or actually really good at some of its supposed capabilities? I'd love to see a 20 watt version!
> Just Sayin'
> Gene


I don’t think Nik took any liberties on the design/component values, but instead stayed true to the original circuits. So you truly have several authentic plexi generations in one amp, that you access by flipping the right switches. 

I think I heard he’s willing to do a Plexi 20, but a “Plexi 21 All Access” would seem unlikely, since he surely couldn’t squeeze all this into his lunchbox chassis. So probably would be their full-size chassis and cost about the same as a Plexi 51.


----------



## What?

Gene Ballzz said:


> That Plexi-51 looks to be the *"Swiss Army Knife"* of Marshall style! I wonder if its a *"Jack of all trades, master of none"* or actually really good at some of its supposed capabilities?



It's hard to say, never having owned any vintage Marshalls or even reissues of the old stuff. I can get some good sounds out it. A few of the switches I find useful, the rest not so much. Surprisingly to me, I also don't find the tube / solid state rectifier switch useful, since they sound and feel so close. Maybe a NOS rectifier would change my mind here, but after recently wasting some money on some NOS Mullard preamp tubes (they only sound marginally different than current production tubes), I'm not eager to throw money at one.

My main motivations in going for this amp were that I wanted a 50 watter for early AC/DC type tone and other 60's/70's sounds, I didn't want an amp that is modern pcb constructed, and I didn't want to spend an arm and a leg for it. I had been keeping an eye out for a decent deal on a vintage Marshall or a 1987x for months without any luck, and so I started looking to see what else is out there. Ceriatone stuff looked to be of excellent construction using good quality parts, although the head cab cosmetics are definitely on the budget side. And when I contacted Nik about what I was looking for he suggested taking a look at the Plexi 51, suggesting that it covered sounds from a JTM45 to early 70's Marshall. After having lived with it for a while I think it's a good quality clone amp for the money, probably not up to par in terms of components as better vintage Marshall examples. But not having owned any vintage Marshalls, I can't really say. I also wonder here if any of the clones are up to par, and if so, at what price point.

I have owned and played some _special_ vintage amps over the years (not Marshall though), and this isn't one of them. It is a good amp though, and I think that I couldn't have gotten anything better around this price point.


----------



## What?

TheOtherEric said:


> So you truly have several authentic plexi generations in one amp, that you access by flipping the right switches.



I hink that isn't exactly true. Each amp probably had different transformers, filtering, and other differences. How much of a difference in sound those differences make is anyone's guess. Some of the switches on the Plexi 51 make more significant differences than others, some for the better one way, some just different but not necessarily better.


----------



## ampeq

What? said:


> I hink that isn't exactly true. Each amp probably had different transformers, filtering, and other differences. How much of a difference in sound those differences make is anyone's guess. Some of the switches on the Plexi 51 make more significant differences than others, some for the better one way, some just different but not necessarily better.


If that amps switch’s are anything like my Chupacabra, they are more for getting different sounds at different volumes. Mine do quite a lot at lower volumes, but very little at higher ones. The voice or “era” switch is totally different and you can set the feel of the amp all over the place. (Pussy Timmer works good) But the clipping switches are funny, depending on the volume they can be way too much or very little. Once you learn how to operate them in conjunction with the volume and 2 drive stages the amp is super versatile. Another thing on mine I thought was strange was the resonance and presence make a scratchy sound when you turn them. I called Nik about it and he told me why. It turns out to make this amp sound the way it does they need to do this, weird. I still think the 51 / 101 would be the perfect complement to the Chupa and I’m hoping Nik can provide it.


----------



## TheOtherEric

What? said:


> I hink that isn't exactly true. Each amp probably had different transformers, filtering, and other differences. How much of a difference in sound those differences make is anyone's guess. Some of the switches on the Plexi 51 make more significant differences than others, some for the better one way, some just different but not necessarily better.


To be clear, my point was that when you flip all the switches to get (for example) Plexi ‘67 mode (e.g. Rectifier to SS, Cathode to Shared, Tonestack to 56k/250pf, etc.) then you have [almost, subject to small differences like filtering and PI couplers] the actual ‘67 plexi circuit (at least based on the schematics I’ve seen), not somebody’s interpretation of how a ‘67 plexi should sound. Yeah agreed there will be differences in the transformers and who made the components and tubes, but like you said, we’ll never get a definitive answer on their impact.


----------



## What?

ampeq said:


> If that amps switch’s are anything like my Chupacabra, they are more for getting different sounds at different volumes.



Most of them aren't. They are component swap switches to match changes in respective year of Marshall circuits from JTM50 to metal panel. The half power switch is the only one specifically to do with volume, which I would say is useful. But it definitely takes away from the full power sound. Half-power switch + PPIMV is much better for volume reduction than say using a solid state or sim amp, keeping alot of the fundamental sound in tact but without the cranked up juice. So if you need to get the volume down for some extended woodshedding (and save some life on your output tubes), it is definitely useful. It is not really a replacement for a good attenuator though. If you don't mind shortening life of the power tubes via long hours of having the amp cranked for practice, a good attenuator is the way to go to better keep the cranked up amp sound.


----------



## ampeq

What? said:


> Most of them aren't. They are component swap switches to match changes in respective year of Marshall circuits from JTM50 to metal panel. The half power switch is the only one specifically to do with volume, which I would say is useful. But it definitely takes away from the full power sound. Half-power switch + PPIMV is much better for volume reduction than say using a solid state or sim amp, keeping alot of the fundamental sound in tact but without the cranked up juice. So if you need to get the volume down for some extended woodshedding (and save some life on your output tubes), it is definitely useful. It is not really a replacement for a good attenuator though. If you don't mind shortening life of the power tubes via long hours of having the amp cranked for practice, a good attenuator is the way to go to better keep the cranked up amp sound.


Several of mine are clipping diodes, so the higher the volume the less they do. Very handy for great sound at low levels, but sometimes to much of the shriller side of some Marshall sounds. (I like the fuller and thicker side of the Marshall sound.) Not to say you can't adjust it out of the sound, you just need to be aware of where you are. The 2 drive stages are the most important thing to me though. By running one into the other one way, then reversing it the other way, you have two different amps. Then when used with the MV you have yet another amp to control, one way is dime the MV then set one drive for dirt and the other for volume. This makes the feel of the amp extremely flexible and when used with the other tone shaping switch's it's just the most versatile amp I'v ever tried. Each one of those little switch's should be just a value that is easily changed. If it's not just right for you I'll bet Nik could tell you what to change it to. I may have him back off some of the extreme high's in 2 of the clipping switch's.


----------



## What?

I haven't been playing much lately. Work sucks (hospital, covid), and on top of that we have been covering for some people being out, so not much time off and exhausted. I have been spending any slivers of free time being lazy, reading and listening about amp things and posting here. Today I fired up the Plexi 51 after not playing it for a while. I last left it (more than a week ago) with an old Mullard in V1 (maybe something to it, maybe not), a little reverb and clean boost up front (were still switched on), amp set bright as all fuck with a strat, a little attenuated. It sounds farking _nice_. Dynamic and punchy and clean--->crunchy and detailed, sitting at a point where you can play softer to get cleaner, roll the volume down just a bit for even cleaner but not choked or dark, wind it back up and get expressive to mean with pick attack and still hear notes in barre chords. I have no idea how to capture that sound well in a recording, but I think it would take a pair of stereo condensers out front to get the detail and image and a couple of close mics to get the body. And right now, I'm not getting into that sort of involvement, although I wish I had the energy and focus to.

I had been reading up and listening up on 2203's during my lazy free time. At some point you have to just play and get on with it though. Right?


----------



## 2203xman

Emailed NIK today. There are 6 amps ahead of mine now.Should have it in two weeks.


----------



## Guitar-Rocker

Seems like a long time Mike, was hoping you had yours earlier.


----------



## What?

Guitar-Rocker said:


> Seems like a long time Mike, was hoping you had yours earlier.



It was like forever and a week for me.


----------



## TheOtherEric

2203xman said:


> Emailed NIK today. There are 6 amps ahead of mine now.Should have it in two weeks.


Yeah I too heard this week they’re running 19-20 week lead times, so I’m several weeks out. Ugh! But no regrets of course. I love my Ceriatone amps.


----------



## 2203xman

Well,this wait gives me a bit of time to condition my wife to a plexi amp.She has heard my 18 watt amps,but I can already imagine her shaking het head in dissaproval when she hears this 50 watt plexi.I can't wait ,microwave dinners are in my near future.ha ha!!!


----------



## Guitar-Rocker

Time to build a John H attenuator


----------



## yladrd61

101 Inbound !!!! I also have a Ceriatone JTM 50, and '69ish Ceriatone JMP [1987] in a white Bluesbreaker style 2 x 12 Combo.


----------



## yladrd61

101 Arrived, hope to try some of the different plexi configurations shortly, appears to have most of the '67 to '70 100 Watt Lead & Bass configurations covered.


----------



## yladrd61

I got my 101 used off of Reverb, as with any used equipment I always open it up and give it a detailed going over before plugging it in. I just had a couple of minor lead dress issues I am a bit OCD if my AC gets too close to my DC . I couldn't get the Tung Sol EL34B's to bias up above 27 ma, so I installed a strong matched quad of RFTs that I had stashed away. A very strong 1970 Blackburn I63 in V1, and a nice Brimar CV 4004 in V2, I tried a few different tubes in the PI, but ended up keeping the strongest GT labeled JJ, that were in the Amp when I got it. I am very impressed with this Amp it totally a very wide variety of plexi and early metal face 100 watt Marshall configurations. Also as with all of Ceriatone Amps that I have the build quality and workmanship are second to none.


----------



## Buzzard

yladrd61 said:


> I got my 101 used off of Reverb, as with any used equipment I always open it up and give it a detailed going over before plugging it in. I just had a couple of minor lead dress issues I am a bit OCD if my AC gets too close to my DC . I couldn't get the Tung Sol EL34B's to bias up above 27 ma, so I installed a strong matched quad of RFTs that I had stashed away. A very strong 1970 Blackburn I63 in V1, and a nice Brimar CV 4004 in V2, I tried a few different tubes in the PI, but ended up keeping the strongest GT labeled JJ, that were in the Amp when I got it. I am very impressed with this Amp it totally a very wide variety of plexi and early metal face 100 watt Marshall configurations. Also as with all of Ceriatone Amps that I have the build quality and workmanship are second to none.


Can it get early evh tone? For some reason Nik at ceriatone recommends the yeti or chupacabra instead of the plexi 51 even though it has a ppimv.


----------



## yladrd61

Buzzard said:


> Can it get early evh tone? For some reason Nik at ceriatone recommends the yeti or chupacabra instead of the plexi 51 even though it has a ppimv.


Seeing how the 101 can be configured to '68 Super Lead specs, of course it can nail early EVH tone, however it would be way too loud for a gig at modern stage volumes which is probably why Nik would recommend Amps which can get pretty close to that tone at stage volumes which may encourage the venue you are playing at to ever allow you to play there again


----------



## 2203xman

I


Buzzard said:


> Can it get early evh tone? For some reason Nik at ceriatone recommends the yeti or chupacabra instead of the plexi 51 even though it has a ppimv.


 I have to agree with Nik.For ease of use and go to convienence a higher gain style plexi just makes more sense.Ed used a plexi to get those tones,but if you have ever owned a plexi and have tried to copy his sound,it soon becomes apparent that it is tricky to say the least.His tone seems to have more gain and sustain than a stock plexi.It is in how he used his amp,and nobody can tell you exactly how.You can get his basic core tone with most any plexi but you will find something is just missing.Ppimv will not help or add any gain.It only reduces volume.I hated it on my plexi amps.If you like hard rock tones from the 70's,you will love the plexi style amp.If you are expecting high octane fueled type tones,you will be dissapointed.Take Nik's advise.


----------



## Buzzard

I’ve got a suhr sl 68 100 w plexi with the ppimv ,and with the built in variac it nails early evh at low volumes. With the variac it makes the amp about 50 w. I just thought the plexi 51 would be similar. Granted the sl 68 does have the built in variac which the plexi 51 does not.


----------



## What?

On the early EVH sound, I hear a different gain structure than what I can get out of the Plexi 51. It sounds cascaded to me, much more like a 2203/2204, more sensitive gain than the Plexi 51. And brighter and tighter on top of that.


----------



## What?

Buzzard said:


> I’ve got a suhr sl 68 100 w plexi with the ppimv ,and with the built in variac it nails early evh at low volumes. With the variac it makes the amp about 50 w. I just thought the plexi 51 would be similar. Granted the sl 68 does have the built in variac which the plexi 51 does not.



Got any recordings of the Suhr? By the way, I do have a variac here. But I only tested that it works, haven't used it with an amp yet.


----------



## yladrd61

2203xman said:


> I
> I have to agree with Nik.For ease of use and go to convienence a higher gain style plexi just makes more sense.Ed used a plexi to get those tones,but if you have ever owned a plexi and have tried to copy his sound,it soon becomes apparent that it is tricky to say the least.His tone seems to have more gain and sustain than a stock plexi.It is in how he used his amp,and nobody can tell you exactly how.You can get his basic core tone with most any plexi but you will find something is just missing.Ppimv will not help or add any gain.It only reduces volume.I hated it on my plexi amps.If you like hard rock tones from the 70's,you will love the plexi style amp.If you are expecting high octane fueled type tones,you will be dissapointed.Take Nik's advise.


I definitely prefer the JTM100, JMP 1959/1992 and 50 watt plexi/metal face Marshalls over any of the later cascaded and higher gain amps.


----------



## iwuk78

I just got my tracking number today. 
Ordered my 101 at the end of August, so that puts the build time at about 22.5 weeks. 

Can't wait!


----------



## iwuk78

My 101 arrived this morning! Haven't had much time with it yet as I'm working from home.... But had to have a quick test at lunch time!

Initial impressions are it seems very nicely built! Packing was very good. 
I haven't tried much of anything as far as settings go, but set all the tones to mid, master to max, and played with volume 1 a little, with switches set to the 68 settings in the manual. Sounds like a plexi to me! Was able to dial in some lovely early break up tones, and some nice ACDCsh crunch with just the volume. 
Cranked everything to 10 and rolled back guitar volume.. same deal, all sounds great to me.

I'll get to dig into it a bit more after work, but happy so far


----------



## saxon68

Awesome news! I was so pumped at what I was hearing of ceriatone clips and was totally ready to buy, then found out the lead time. I’m sure it’s worth the wait but I couldn’t do it, bought a local JVM lol.


----------



## What?

saxon68 said:


> Awesome news! I was so pumped at what I was hearing of ceriatone clips and was totally ready to buy, then found out the lead time. I’m sure it’s worth the wait but I couldn’t do it, bought a local JVM lol.



Yea, that wait time is for real and forever.


----------



## saxon68

What? said:


> Yea, that wait time is for real and forever.


Oh I’ll get one eventually! Just been dying to have a tube amp again and didn’t want to wait the 11-22 weeks.


----------



## What?

saxon68 said:


> Oh I’ll get one eventually! Just been dying to have a tube amp again and didn’t want to wait the 11-22 weeks.



I hear you. I went for a long time just playing at home through a computer. Talk about uninspiring! Faaaauck. So glad I got away from that crap! Nothing matches or beats tube amps. And I'm sure the JVM is no slouch.


----------



## saxon68

What? said:


> I hear you. I went for a long time just playing at home through a computer. Talk about uninspiring! Faaaauck. So glad I got away from that crap! Nothing matches or beats tube amps. And I'm sure the JVM is no slouch.


It’s not, the trick is don’t crank the gain, crank the volume.


----------



## yladrd61

I just ordered a Ceriatone JTM 45/100 "Experienced"


----------



## Zado

yladrd61 said:


> I just ordered a Ceriatone JTM 45/100 "Experienced"


My do-want in the must buy list.


----------



## 2203xman

Still waiting.


----------



## What?

2203xman said:


> Still waiting.



Damn, really? I was going to ask a while back if you got your amp in and what you thought about it, but I figured that maybe you were getting familiar with it before posting about it.

I'm still jonesing a a bit over a 2203, but do I really need it?


----------



## 2203xman

What? said:


> Damn, really? I was going to ask a while back if you got your amp in and what you thought about it, but I figured that maybe you were getting familiar with it before posting about it.
> 
> I'm still jonesing a a bit over a 2203, but do I really need it?


Nik told me there was 6 amps ahead of mine around Feb 30th.This has been a long wait.Soon to be 6 months.On the 2203,mine was just a joy to play.Miss it much.


----------



## ampeq

2203xman said:


> Nik told me there was 6 amps ahead of mine around Feb 30th.This has been a long wait.Soon to be 6 months.On the 2203,mine was just a joy to play.Miss it much.


I think you ordered that amp before I ordered my 2202 and I got mine a couple weeks ago. The small amps seem to get done much quicker. I wonder if the 2203 & 4 can be ordered with the same mods they do to the 2202. I really like this amp.


----------



## 2203xman

https://www.facebook.com/groups/ceriatone/permalink/10159536504419589/?sfnsn=mo she shipped out 


ampeq said:


> I think you ordered that amp before I ordered my 2202 and I got mine a couple weeks ago. The small amps seem to get done much quicker. I wonder if the 2203 & 4 can be ordered with the same mods they do to the 2202. I really like this amp.


tuesday!


----------



## What?

@2203xman

What cab are going to be using with that amp?


----------



## 2203xman

I've g


What? said:


> @2203xman
> 
> What cab are going to be using with that amp?


I've got an old Marshall 1960a slant cab with 2 greenbacks and two v-30's.


----------



## ampeq

2203xman said:


> https://www.facebook.com/groups/ceriatone/permalink/10159536504419589/?sfnsn=mo she shipped out
> 
> tuesday!


I can’t wait to hear what you think about it. I REALLY like the little 2202 I just got and wonder if they could do a larger version just like it. The stuff they added in it makes it very versatile and much more useable over the full volume range. I sure wish I knew about these guys a long time ago, could have saved me a fortune.


----------



## What?

I'm pretty curious to know what 2203xman thinks too since he has owned a 2203x and 1987x, having experience to draw on.


----------



## 2203xman

Got my tubes ready.Going with some older Marshall branded 12ax7's,that test strong,A new Ruby labeled Shugang rectifier,and new Shuagang El 34's.Always liked those Chinese tubes.


----------



## What?

2203xman said:


> Got my tubes ready.Going with some older Marshall branded 12ax7's,that test strong,A new Ruby labeled Shugang rectifier,and new Shuagang El 34's.Always liked those Chinese tubes.



What do you like about the Chinese tubes? I haven't tried any yet in my DSL50 or Plexi 51. Been running JJ's and a pair of old Svetlana's. They can sound pretty different at lower volumes, but cranked up there is very little difference that I can hear. I did some back and forth tube swapping in my Plexi 51 with just about everything I had on hand in every position and decided that the differences are so small that I don't care, including some old Mullard preamp tubes.


----------



## 2203xman

What? said:


> What do you like about the Chinese tubes? I haven't tried any yet in my DSL50 or Plexi 51. Been running JJ's and a pair of old Svetlana's. They can sound pretty different at lower volumes, but cranked up there is very little difference that I can hear. I did some back and forth tube swapping in my Plexi 51 with just about everything I had on hand in every position and decided that the differences are so small that I don't care, including some old Mullard preamp tubes.


The Shuguang tubes sound pretty aggressive.Mainly tried the Ruby labeled ones,best tube I used in the 2203x,Hopefully they will juice the P51 up a bit.


----------



## 2203xman

Amp is home.Figures I'm really busy with work.Tubes are in,and I should have a minute to bias it tonight.First impression is it is very well built.Some beautiful wiring.I can tell that all the features will take some time to go through.This weekend I will try to go through it.


----------



## What?

2203xman, good luck with all the switches. It's something of a maze playing with around with all the combos. The amp is fundamentally the same no matter what though.


----------



## Zado

So everyone's happy with the Plexi51 so far?


----------



## 2203xman

So I spent a little time with the pkexi 51 last night.To be fair,no nearly enough time to review this amp,but I will give my thoughts so far.Overall build quality is excellent,lead dress and wiring,perhaps as neat as it gets.My fawn headshell is nice,,I'm not crazy over the metal corners,but a simple detail.The amp is a plexi,not leaps and bounds different from my 1987x.I am a bit overwhelmed by all the options.So far my favorites are the boost option,that bypasses the tone stack,and the bright cap selector.I go with the100uf,the same value that I used inthe 1987x.I find myself with the same two issues with both the Marshall,and the Ceriatone.Taming the volume,and fighting the bottom end.The p51 gives you a choice of v2 caps,330,68,and none.I modified the 1987xwith a .3uf,and it was a huge improvement.The .68 choice in the p51 to my ears is still too bass heavy.The 330 cap on the p51 lies partly under the fx loop board,so not impossible to swap,but not as easy as the 1987x.Overall a nice amp, maybe a slightly better clean than my 1987x,but a drive tone that I need to tweek just a bit to tighten the bottom.Why then would a plexi be my choice over anothet 2203?.Well,it is mostly the lead tone for me on a plexi amp.Not nearly as brittle,as a mv 2203/2204.Much more fluid,and the overdrive when slightly modded to tighten the bottom just a bit,is just pure and rich.So,there is much to experiment with,perhaps even trying some OD pedals to tighten up the tone,but I look forward to it all.So for now I think this amp to be an incredible value,and maybe overwhelming,but really well engineered and beautifully built.Tonight,I will try the half power,the shared cathode,and an od pedal,and no attenuator.Oh,the ppimv works well on this amp,I tend to never go below5 or so,but a nice feature to knock down a few decibles.More to come.


----------



## ampeq

2203xman said:


> So I spent a little time with the pkexi 51 last night.To be fair,no nearly enough time to review this amp,but I will give my thoughts so far.Overall build quality is excellent,lead dress and wiring,perhaps as neat as it gets.My fawn headshell is nice,,I'm not crazy over the metal corners,but a simple detail.The amp is a plexi,not leaps and bounds different from my 1987x.I am a bit overwhelmed by all the options.So far my favorites are the boost option,that bypasses the tone stack,and the bright cap selector.I go with the100uf,the same value that I used inthe 1987x.I find myself with the same two issues with both the Marshall,and the Ceriatone.Taming the volume,and fighting the bottom end.The p51 gives you a choice of v2 caps,330,68,and none.I modified the 1987xwith a .3uf,and it was a huge improvement.The .68 choice in the p51 to my ears is still too bass heavy.The 330 cap on the p51 lies partly under the fx loop board,so not impossible to swap,but not as easy as the 1987x.Overall a nice amp, maybe a slightly better clean than my 1987x,but a drive tone that I need to tweek just a bit to tighten the bottom.Why then would a plexi be my choice over anothet 2203?.Well,it is mostly the lead tone for me on a plexi amp.Not nearly as brittle,as a mv 2203/2204.Much more fluid,and the overdrive when slightly modded to tighten the bottom just a bit,is just pure and rich.So,there is much to experiment with,perhaps even trying some OD pedals to tighten up the tone,but I look forward to it all.So for now I think this amp to be an incredible value,and maybe overwhelming,but really well engineered and beautifully built.Tonight,I will try the half power,the shared cathode,and an od pedal,and no attenuator.Oh,the ppimv works well on this amp,I tend to never go below5 or so,but a nice feature to knock down a few decibles.More to come.


Congratulations 2203, you finally got her! I’m sure it’s an outstanding amp and as you said a great value. I have 2 of their amps and really love both of them. (2202 combo & Chupa) some of those little switches stop working way up loud, the louder you go the less they do. This helps get the tone dialed in at lower volumes. I kept thinking something was wrong because at lower volumes the switches do a lot but at high volume nothing. Once you learn how to use them though you can get great tones even at lower levels. I hope you like it like I do mine, both of my Ceriatone amps I know I will never sell. (Unless a new one replaces it.) If you like a lot of drive and power in an amp I can’t recommend the Chupacabra enough, best Marshall type amp I’ve ever played. If you like the 2203 & 4 (or any of the 800ish tones) try a 2202 combo. Best grab and go amp at any price and it’s under $1000 even with a buffered loop. Keep us posted and good luck.


----------



## What?

2203xman, it's nice to finally hear someone else's perspective on this amp, and I look forward to hearing more from you. I agree on tightening up the bass. I think I don't want less bass though (can always dial it back with the bass knob), just tighter. With humbuckers anyway, not such much with a strat. What do you think about the v2 middle switch position (no bypass cap)?

I also think that I want more upper mids grind from this amp. Not really more perceptible gain overall, but less in the lower frequencies and more in the higher frequencies.


----------



## 2203xman

Today I had a very pleasant romp with the P51.My strategy was to keep the gain down,try my sd-1,use the jumper to blend a touch of normall channel in,and then use the 1000pg bright cap with my humbucker strat.Also using the shared cathode option ,with the boost off.Wow,super tight plexi drive with great harmonics.Very early Judas Priest like tones,but withe the volume knob,it could cover ZZ top,and most 80's rock.This session was very satisfying.The amp responded extremely well with the SD-1,and the earlier shared cathode option.Tube rectifyer,presence character right,no boost,V2a left,V1bright which is 0.0022pf V2b right,neg feedback right(49k) 1000pf bright cap,half power,and no PPIMV(10).P-5,B-5,M-8,T-6.Some really nice tight rock tones today,and I'm left thinking that there will be no amp surgery.This plexi responds better with the OD than the 1987x did,and I think the shared cathode is the reason here.My tele just didn't sit well with the amp,but my strat really shined.Very happy today.Oh yeah,bright volume 2.5 normal volume 1.Still very loud through the 4x12.And the SD-1 used as a clean boost,level maxed,drive very low.


----------



## What?

2203xman, it sounds like you're getting on with it then.

I'm going to have to get back to playing this amp soon. Since the bout of cold weather here a while back I have mostly been playing my Super Reverb in the house and putting together a pedal board.


----------



## 2203xman

What? said:


> 2203xman, it sounds like you're getting on with it then.
> 
> I'm going to have to get back to playing this amp soon. Since the bout of cold weather here a while back I have mostly been playing my Super Reverb in the house and putting together a pedal board.


I am very happy so far.The amp seems to have a lot more gain than the 1987x.It does get muddy when you crank it up,but it sounds really good keeping the amp's volume down and giving it a clean boost with an OD pedal.In this way,much better than the 1987x.Not much clean headroom,but great classic rock tones.


----------



## TheOtherEric

@2203xman thanks for all the info. Interesting that it has a lot more gain that the 1987x! Regarding its lack of clean headroom, surely you could flip the switches to more of a JTM45 and find some, no? 

Now that I've waited 5 months for my Plexi 51, I reached my limit and ordered a Bray this week. Bray will hand-wire you a new amp in 2-3 weeks, so when it arrives I'll still probably be waiting for the Plexi51. lol. Plexi 51 vs. Coco 50 will be a fun comparison!


----------



## 2203xman

TheOtherEric said:


> @2203xman thanks for all the info. Interesting that it has a lot more gain that the 1987x! Regarding its lack of clean headroom, surely you could flip the switches to more of a JTM45 and find some, no?
> 
> Now that I've waited 5 months for my Plexi 51, I reached my limit and ordered a Bray this week. Bray will hand-wire you a new amp in 2-3 weeks, so when it arrives I'll still probably be waiting for the Plexi51. lol. Plexi 51 vs. Coco 50 will be a fun comparison! I kinda suspect there'll be a brand-new Plexi 51 on Reverb in a few weeks.


Yeah,enough headroom @50 watts.I've been using the 1/2 power switch,and it starts breaking up pretty good at 2 or so.If you like plexi type amps,the P51 is a good one.There is so much to fiddle with,it can be overwhelming,but fun.The bright cap swithch,and boost are nice options.My old SD-1 really sounds good with this amp.Real chewy.


----------



## What?

2203xman said:


> Very early Judas Priest like tones



I never was a Judas Priest fan, but I'm just hearing the Rocka Rolla album for the first time. Some crazy good stuff on that one. And this flopped?


----------



## Zado

2203xman said:


> Wow,super tight plexi drive with great harmonics.Very early Judas Priest like tones


This is how you sell me an amp.


----------



## 2203xman

What? said:


> I never was a Judas Priest fan, but I'm just hearing the Rocka Rolla album for the first time. Some crazy good stuff on that one. And this flopped?


They kind of lost me when they started to soundi a bit more modern,and fast.


----------



## 2203xman

Zado said:


> This is how you sell me an amp.


The OD really tightens it up.It's a vintage plexi at it's core,chewy,but like all early Marshall types,loose in the bottom when cranked on it's own.Nature of the beast.


----------



## What?

2203xman said:


> They kind of lost me when they started to soundi a bit more modern,and fast.



Still not a fan of Halford's extreme vibrato, but overall, that early stuff is really good overall. Right in there with the best. Been digging on some old Budgie lately too.


----------



## tjiann

Folks,

Just joined this forum and spent some time reading this thread. Lots of great info and sound samples! Many thanks. I just bought a 2020 Plexi 51 last week from another forum and got it the other day. I have not had time to really try it out yet, but wanted to note something important to consider. It was just the amp and not the head shell (the way the original owner ordered it). So, I grabbed an appropriate small box (i.e., 1987x) head shell from Tube Depot. In mounting the amp, I noticed that the lettering for all of the small switches does not show. So, I had to shim the amp up a bit to lift it to where all the lettering would show. It fits great after doing that, but does create a small gap at the bottom in the back. Just thought I'd share that in case any of you were planning on ordering just the amp and getting a non-Ceriatone head shell.


----------



## TheOtherEric

@tjiann head shells are typically flat on the inside bottom, with nothing extending vertically to obscure anything on the face plate. Sounds like Tubedepot cabinets are a bit different? Curious since I have a Sourmash cab here, awaiting the P51 chassis, and I can’t see any issue. Regardless, glad to hear it’s easily solved with washers/shims in your case.


----------



## tjiann

TheOtherEric said:


> w



Maybe its a bit different than Sourmash or Mojotone. This was the first time I've ordered a head shell. Nice quality. Hope you get your P51 soon and it fits perfectly.


----------



## Buzzard

Curious as well since if I were to get a ceriatone plexi I think that the sourmash looks alot better.


----------



## 2203xman

Sourmash makes a really nice box.I have the smaller 18 watt short headshell.I was hoping to maybe use it with the P51.I think the front panel would barely fit length wise due to the extra features on the front panel of the P51.Looks like the power switch would be really close.Still loving the amp,a bright plexi,but really able to get some tones that lean towards my old 2203.With just a clean boost it can get pretty mean.Ok measured the opening for the front panel on my Sourmash is 16.5" ,and the Ceriatone is 17".I think the amp will work with the Sourmash box you will just loose a 1/4 inch of the panel on either side,which puts the power switch and the input jacks kind of close to the edge of the opening.


----------



## What?

I think the stock cab is really not bad. The wood construction I mean. I'm definitely not a fan of the cheapo tolex, metal corners, and cheaply painted expanded metal. But the cab cosmetics could be diy upgraded for not much money. A proper Marshall style cab would be a nicer bit of eye candy of course, but good quality tolex and ditching the metal corners alone would make a considerable difference in the look of the cab. For now, I'm fine with it though. What matters most is the sound coming out of the thing.

Things are warming up here, I almost got my pedal rig finished, and I will be getting back to playing the Plexi 51 soon, which lives in my workshed. I also picked up a Weber Z-matcher to try my amps with various speaker loads to see what that might bring about. I'm curious to see how my Super Reverb sounds through a 412 and how the Plexi 51 sounds through the Super Reverb speaker load.

One thing on the Plexi 51. I think if I were to do it again, I might go with a 100 watter for more volume at cleaner settings, i.e., that Malcolm clean'ish thing. But going in another direction I'm also still thinking about a 2203.

Also, over the last year of screwing around with this and that gear, my playing has went to shit. I really need to get back to daily listening, playing, and practicing.


----------



## EndGame00

What? said:


> I never was a Judas Priest fan, but I'm just hearing the Rocka Rolla album for the first time. Some crazy good stuff on that one. And this flopped?



Rocka Rolla was and still my main JP album of all time...


----------



## TheOtherEric

Another fellow on FB just reported his Plexi 101 getting shipped at the 26 week mark, just for anyone keeping score. The lead times are somehow getting worse by the week. God help anyone who orders right now.


----------



## What?

Hella long wait times. Last I hit up Nik about a 2203 _*kit*_ he said 3 to 4 weeks.

I think I'm wanting a 100 watter _something_. 1959 or 2203.


----------



## Buzzard

Anyone know if when ordering an amp if it has to be paid in full? Cause there’s no way in hell I’m tying up 1k +for 6 months. , not in these covid times.


----------



## Biff Maloy

http://www.ceriatone.com/ordering-info/


----------



## Zado

COVID has been hittin quite hard on small production.


----------



## What?

Did a little playing on mine today. I forget all the settings at the moment, but I prefer it set up for max headroom with the channel volumes on the lower side. And I am preferring the bright cap switched off now with the treble high and presence about half. It gets pretty punchy and dynamic. It's not hella loud though. Loud enough to be over a drummer for sure, but not with that hefty push. I'm plenty comfortable running it unattenuated in a workshed that is 16 x 8 feet. Maybe the neighbors aren't, but if no one is crying then we all must be happy.


----------



## TheOtherEric

Buzzard said:


> Anyone know if when ordering an amp if it has to be paid in full? Cause there’s no way in hell I’m tying up 1k +for 6 months. , not in these covid times.


The web site payment info isn’t really correct. Some guys do payment plans, I think 2 or 3 installments with the last payment just prior to shipping. Ask Nik for details. I always just pay upfront through guitarampsusa since it’s usually a few bucks cheaper.


----------



## malice95

My Plexi 101 has been getting a lotta playtime but after a nearly 7 month wait.... 

Its Green Day time! Dookie modded Plexi 100 from Ceriatone! 
Just showed up today. Its a beast. It basically nails the Dookie tone and that's it. It doesn't clean up at all. Total 1 trick pony. Insanely loud. Its like a Plexi running on 10 while the Gain and MV on this amp are at 9 o'clock. This is the Ceriatone guys testing it out. 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/ceriatone/permalink/10159593133574589/


----------



## malice95

Buzzard said:


> Anyone know if when ordering an amp if it has to be paid in full? Cause there’s no way in hell I’m tying up 1k +for 6 months. , not in these covid times.


If you buy from Nick he'll do a payment plan if you want. I made 3 (1/3rd) payments. 1 upfront, 1 a few months later and the last 1 right before it shipped.


----------



## 2203xman

malice95 said:


> My Plexi 101 has been getting a lotta playtime but after a nearly 7 month wait....
> 
> Its Green Day time! Dookie modded Plexi 100 from Ceriatone!
> Just showed up today. Its a beast. It basically nails the Dookie tone and that's it. It doesn't clean up at all. Total 1 trick pony. Insanely loud. Its like a Plexi running on 10 while the Gain and MV on this amp are at 9 o'clock. This is the Ceriatone guys testing it out.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/ceriatone/permalink/10159593133574589/


Not a green day fan,but I really love the sound of this amp.Wait times are tough,but I still think these amps are hard to beat.I love my plexi 51.Hate to say it,but it sounds better than my 1987x.Congrats on th dookie,I would love that amp.


----------



## Zado

Yeah, I'm not a GD fan either, but their sound is good, and that amp is givin me gas big time.

Also, I like that Ceriatone is offering more distinctive designs like the All Access and the Dookie. I mean, it's good to see cheaper clones of pricey gear, but imho unique amps are far more appealing. You don't get the "X amp wannabe" (though the Ceriatone version is often crafted better than the original), you get the real deal that only Ceriatone makes.


----------



## What?

I see today that Ceriatone added some settings to the documentation for the Plexi 51 from some people named Francesco D’Arpa and Emanuele Sereni http://www.ceriatone.com/british-style-plexi51-access/ It might be worth flipping through them.


----------



## malice95

Zado said:


> Yeah, I'm not a GD fan either, but their sound is good, and that amp is givin me gas big time.
> 
> Also, I like that Ceriatone is offering more distinctive designs like the All Access and the Dookie. I mean, it's good to see cheaper clones of pricey gear, but imho unique amps are far more appealing. You don't get the "X amp wannabe" (though the Ceriatone version is often crafted better than the original), you get the real deal that only Ceriatone makes.



Put together a quick video tonight with my guitar instructor and and backing track that was minus guitar/vocals. So spot on in the room.


----------



## TheOtherEric

Got my Plexi 51 this week after a long 7 month wait. What a great amp. Some initial thoughts:

1. After proper biasing, I’m very satisfied with how much gain it has. Does EVH brown sound fine.
2. Having all the switches is nice for dialing in what you like, but I think practically speaking you won’t be flipping them much from then on. E.g. going from JTM50 to 71 spec is just too complicated.
3. Normal channel is useless, flubby and woofy when you play any low notes. Going to need modding unless I can find some magic combination of switch settings. [EDIT: after some fiddling, I’m pretty happy with the Normal channel. Like most folks, I’ll probably never use it though.]
4. It doesn’t quite have the gain my Bray Coco 50 has, so Bray does a slightly better Brown sound. But Plexi51 has slightly better clarity and definition (clean or dirty), so subtle a recording would never pick it up. I have to sell one, and I truly can’t decide. The Bray has a very useful 2-button foot switch, and a great Normal channel, but you have limited tone-shaping options (not a problem since it’s voiced so well).


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## Buzzard

Damn,7 month wait! This is exactly the reason why I won't go with ceriatone.They require payment up front and there's no way I'm tying up $1200+ indefinitely.I considered a plexi 51 ,now with today's news of malaysia shutting down due to covid I'm REALLY glad I didn't pull the trigger.I'll buy used or go with something american that I can have right away.Good luck though on your decision.


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## 2203xman

TheOtherEric said:


> Got my Plexi 51 this week after a long 7 month wait. What a great amp. Some initial thoughts:
> 
> 1. After proper biasing, I’m very satisfied with how much gain it has. Does EVH brown sound fine.
> 2. Having all the switches is nice for dialing in what you like, but I think practically speaking you won’t be flipping them much from then on. E.g. going from JTM50 to 71 spec is just too complicated.
> 3. Normal channel is useless, flubby and woofy when you play any low notes. Going to need modding unless I can find some magic combination of switch settings.
> 4. It doesn’t quite have the gain my Bray Coco 50 has, so Bray does a slightly better Brown sound. But Plexi51 has slightly better clarity and definition (clean or dirty), so subtle a recording would never pick it up. I have to sell one, and I truly can’t decide. The Bray has a very useful 2-button foot switch, and a great Normal channel, but you have limited tone-shaping options (not a problem since it’s voiced so well).


Happy for you!Mine was a 6 month wait,but I'm not dissapointed at all.With the normal channel,I just blend in a bit of this to add some deep bottom end.Typical for me is normal on 2,bright on 5.I love the push pull channel jumper.I like the ppimv on this amp as well.I don't set it to extremems.I use my attenuator on a mild 4 db setting,then turn the ppimb to 8.This is still pretty loud,but you don't hear the side effect fizz from the attenuator like this.I use the big bright cap for the added gain,then turn my treble back to 2 or so,and blend in a bit of normal channel.Sounds really good.Have fun!!


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## What?

I would love to know what sorts of sounds you all are getting from this amp and any signal chain and settings details. @TheOtherEric, what is your set up for getting EVH sounds from this amp? Speakers, pickup, any pedals?


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## What?

Buzzard said:


> Damn,7 month wait! This is exactly the reason why I won't go with ceriatone.They require payment up front and there's no way I'm tying up $1200+ indefinitely.I considered a plexi 51 ,now with today's news of malaysia shutting down due to covid I'm REALLY glad I didn't pull the trigger.I'll buy used or go with something american that I can have right away.Good luck though on your decision.



The wait is brutally long. I wouldn't blame anyone for not wanting to wait. I wouldn't worry about Ceriatone not delivering though. Too many people have bought amps from them throughout the covid holdups, and I haven't seen anyone report not getting their amp. I haven't seen any of these amps sell for significantly lower than new yet, and with taxes and shipping, used is probably about the same price as new. But that wait. I have been keeping an eye on used prices because...

After I eventually get a recently acquired chinese amp kit together and with a better understanding of it (25 watt 2204 type thing), I'm likely going to sell my Plexi 51 and go for a 100 watter 1959/2203 kit in it's place. The Plexi 51 is a cool amp, but I want that 100 watter fat to go with it. And at this point I would rather have fixed values in place of most of the switching options. I'm still a bit confused on what I want at this point though. I like the roundness of 6L6's but the crunch of EL34's. And I would like to have a nice heavy sag option (maybe sag resistors would do it fine). Clean'ish to rich harmonic mid gain crunch with some fat to back it up. Maybe there is a 100 watter 6L6 based Marshall type amp out there that I should be looking at. Maybe what I'm looking for is a JTM45/100, which uses KT66's.


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## Buzzard

Those wangs are starting to look good....no pun intended.


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## What?

Buzzard said:


> Those wangs are starting to look good....no pun intended.



We talking amps or peckers? 

They might be cool amps. Not enough people have bitten the Wangs and reported in to make me comfortable. But I want to go the ~100 watter route anyway. You should try one and let us know. Worst case, you could sell it off if it ends up not doing it for you. And at least one picky fucker (term of endearment) will have reported in either way.

Just had a romp with both the Plexi 51 and the DSL50. The Plexi 51 cuts like a razor blade and mids get creamy when digging into chords. It can get needle tip bright and maybe sounds best there. Gotta watch it though, cause my ears are ringing. The DSL50 red channel cuts like a 16 penny nail and right to the forehead when digging in, with more gain at lowest gain settings but doesn't obviosuly do that creamy thing. Both are cool amps and have a little reacting give when pushing hard on volume and chords. Maybe I should leave well enough alone, but I won't. 

I'm just starting to take notice of that creamy compressed mids aspect and gaining an appreciation for it. It's funny how sounds can unfold over time, and when you think you know something, you find out that you don't know much of anything. Angus's High Voltage volume setting sounds just short of that for the chord stuff, more clean and dynamic, where Live at Donnington is well into it but not overly so.




And EVH You Really Got Me is into it but maybe less than Angus above and maybe pushing the speakers harder.


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## What?

Don't listen to me. I don't know jack. I'll tell you this though.  The DSL50 sounds every bit as good as the Plexi 51. And at lowest gain and cranked volume, it sounds very similar to it on the red channel. And it sounds bigger and a little louder, like the difference between a 100 watter and 50 watter. And it can get just as bright with the treble and presence up. And the green channel sounds fatter and more dynamic still. I just wish that the DSL50 weren't built like typical consumer electronics. But it rocks nonetheless. I'm not knocking the Plexi 51 in the least here. And it is built nicely. But to be fair, the DSL50 is a rockin' amp right in there with it and with more versatility.


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## TheOtherEric

What? said:


> I would love to know what sorts of sounds you all are getting from this amp and any signal chain and settings details. @TheOtherEric, what is your set up for getting EVH sounds from this amp? Speakers, pickup, any pedals?


For EVH sounds, most important is to use PAF-style pickups otherwise forget it (although SD JB works ok). My signal chain is:
LP with 57 Classic Pups > Echoplex EP-3 > Plexi 51 > JohnH Attenuator on -21db > Sourmash 2061CX 2x12 cab > Greenback speakers. The Echoplex and attenuator does make the sound a bit wilder, although I'm seeing some sag (e.g. Unchained) so I think I'm at/over the limit of the P51's transformer.

Plexi 51 is set up in '68 mode: Split cathode, 33k/500pf ToneStack, 47K NFB, Bright 100pf, V1B .022uf, V2A .68uf, Boost none, Char .1uf, Tube Rect. Knobs: PPIMV 5, Pres 10, B 0, M 10, T 10, V1 10, V2 0.

With this setup, I get what feels like 90% to 95% the gain of my Bray Coco 50 (Plexi style specifically designed for EVH sound). I haven't decided yet if 90-95% is enough. 

EDIT: Running the attenuator causes too much sag at -21db, so -17db is really the limit. The Bray doesn't have that sag at -21db, a credit to Heyboer I suppose. It's also a bit surprising that the P51 has such severe sag at PPIMV of just 5.


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## Zado

TheOtherEric said:


> For EVH sounds, most important is to use PAF-style pickups otherwise forget it (although SD JB works ok)


SuperD may give some nice evh tones as well. Imho the most important thing for EVH is the Greenback thing.

The Bray Coco sounds like a great amp, would love to hear one next to my Yeti


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## TheOtherEric

Zado said:


> SuperD may give some nice evh tones as well. Imho the most important thing for EVH is the Greenback thing.
> 
> *The Bray Coco sounds like a great amp, would love to hear one next to my Yeti*


I actually have a Son of Yeti sitting here (I plan to sell it), but I haven't bothered to try to compare the SoY and Coco. Maybe I should do that. The SoY actually does a really good EVH sound. I made some recordings and will get that posted sometime.


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## Buzzard

TheOtherEric said:


> For EVH sounds, most important is to use PAF-style pickups otherwise forget it (although SD JB works ok). My signal chain is:
> LP with 57 Classic Pups > Echoplex EP-3 > Plexi 51 > JohnH Attenuator on -21db > Sourmash 2061CX 2x12 cab > Greenback speakers. The Echoplex and attenuator does make the sound a bit wilder, although I'm seeing some sag (e.g. Unchained) so I think I'm at/over the limit of the P51's transformer.
> 
> Plexi 51 is set up in '68 mode: Split cathode, 33k/500pf ToneStack, 47K NFB, Bright 100pf, V1B .022uf, V2A .68uf, Boost none, Char .1uf, Tube Rect. Knobs: PPIMV 5, Pres 10, B 0, M 10, T 10, V1 10, V2 0.
> 
> With this setup, I get what feels like 90% to 95% the gain of my Bray Coco 50 (Plexi style specifically designed for EVH sound). I haven't decided yet if 90-95% is enough.
> 
> EDIT: Running the attenuator causes too much sag at -21db, so -17db is really the limit. The Bray doesn't have that sag at -21db, a credit to Heyboer I suppose. It's also a bit surprising that the P51 has such severe sag at PPIMV of just 5.


I would think that sag would be a good thing for EVH tones.


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## Zado

TheOtherEric said:


> I actually have a Son of Yeti sitting here (I plan to sell it), but I haven't bothered to try to compare the SoY and Coco. Maybe I should do that. The SoY actually does a pretty decent EVH sound. I made some recordings and will get that posted sometime.


Not sure the Soy and the Yeti sound that similar, but a comparison would be interesting nonetheless!


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## 2203xman

Good to see the plexi 51 settings that oyher folks enjoy.I like using the big 1000 bright cap,ad turning the treble back to 2,and the presence almost off,and then blending in some normal channel around 2 or so.I use no negative feedback,the .68 bypass cap,and mostly configured like a '72 metal panel plexi.I keep the bright channel at 5 and add a clean boost with my old Japanese sd-1.Having fun.


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## Guitar-Rocker

Not to de-rail, but since there is an interest on my part, I am in the process of gathering parts to build a Plexi 51, from scratch. Now here is an odd twist, The cloner gets one of his amps cloned


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## Zado

Guitar-Rocker said:


> Not to de-rail, but since there is an interest on my part, I am in the process of gathering parts to build a Plexi 51, from scratch. Now here is an odd twist, The cloner gets one of his amps cloned



And even odder for what the amp market is, I'm quite sure Nik doesnt bother that much


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## What?

Guitar-Rocker said:


> Not to de-rail, but since there is an interest on my part, I am in the process of gathering parts to build a Plexi 51, from scratch. Now here is an odd twist, The cloner gets one of his amps cloned



I'm willing to bet that Nik wouldn't call you an asshole for doing so. And hopefully you start a thread about your build. I would be interested in following along and could provide any details about my Plexi 51 that may be helpful in your build.


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## Orgazmo

I LOVE mine! I have had it since 2005 and play it almost every day. Straight up 1969.5/1970 era plexi. No bells, whistles, massive switching, the way these amps are supposed to be. Crank it or put it on an attenuator and dime it and instant ac/dc. I have mine in a purple head box. Came with JJ el34's but i immediately put EHX 6ca7 tubes in it and EHX 12ax7 pre's and tone to your bone!!! Tung-Sol 12ax7 pre's sound killer also. Gives a bit "softer" distortion. Nailed the early Michael Schenker/UFO Tone with that set. BUY DIRECT FROM NIK AT CERIATONE!!


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## Guitar-Rocker

What? said:


> I'm willing to bet that Nik wouldn't call you an asshole for doing so. And hopefully you start a thread about your build. I would be interested in following along and could provide any details about my Plexi 51 that may be helpful in your build.




I will start a thread, when I get closer.

Parts are dribbling in here for the "Plexi 51 All Access" clone build. The PT I had on hand, and it's a ClassicTone, got the Heyboer OT in the mail today, choke is a Hammond.

The build will closely resemble the 51 foot print, except the difference in upgraded transformer iron, faceplates will be similar in layout but some holes changed, and the chassis I ordered that is large enough to fit the footprint span is not gold anodized. It's steel, but doesn't have the bright coating on the chassis.

I'll also use a Metro or Granger FX loop, since Ceriatones is their own. I also plan to incorporate another mini toggle switch to choose JTM45 values if desired to span all of the Marshall tones.

I may delete the tone stack boost switch, not sure about that yet. And I'm going to try to put the "Channel Jumper" on a mini switch instead of the push pull volume pot.

And I have to say that the stock photos of the 51 set a high enough bar to achieve, and if the craftsmanship on all the 51's are of that high of quality, then I can see why the long wait


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## Guitar-Rocker

What? said:


> I'm willing to bet that Nik wouldn't call you an asshole for doing so. And hopefully you start a thread about your build. I would be interested in following along and could provide any details about my Plexi 51 that may be helpful in your build.




It would be interesting to know what the plate voltage is on the Plexi 51


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## 2203xman

Guitar-Rocker said:


> It would be interesting to know what the plate voltage is on the Plexi 51


Terry,it's about time for me to re check my bias I'll try to make time this weekend to measures the plate voltage for you.


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## Guitar-Rocker

Thank you Mike !


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## What?

Guitar-Rocker said:


> It would be interesting to know what the plate voltage is on the Plexi 51



I need to open mine up to take a look at some things for a janky chinese kit build that I'm...sort of working on...the layout of this kit it weird and likely going to have troubles I think.


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## What?

Incoming 123v. Plates 417v. Tubes in. Looks about right according to Ceriatones voltages (120v in) to the Plexi 50 @ 414v, Plexi Bass @ 417v, JTM 50 @ 422v. http://www.ceriatone.com/voltage/VoltageChart.xls

The construction of this amp is impressive to look at inside in person. Holy shit.


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## What?

Actually, wouldn't that plate voltage be a little low at 120? 417 x 120 / 123 = 406.


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## What?

Shit. I popped the HT fuse. I somehow caused an arc between pins 3 and 4 of one of the power tubes. I guess my probe got a little close to pin 4 (definitely didn't touch it!), and when I pulled my probe away it sustained an arc for what seemed like a couple of seconds before popping the HT fuse. I guess I should have used an insulated alligator clip instead. Now finding a 500ma slow blow 5mmx200mm fuse locally. I have been down this road before and had to order fuses. Hopefully the fuse popping is all that happened. I definitely got a little lesson here on potential unpredictability of high voltage. Live and learn.


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## 2203xman

What? said:


> Incoming 123v. Plates 417v. Tubes in. Looks about right according to Ceriatones voltages (120v in) to the Plexi 50 @ 414v, Plexi Bass @ 417v, JTM 50 @ 422v. http://www.ceriatone.com/voltage/VoltageChart.xls
> 
> The construction of this amp is impressive to look at inside in person. Holy shit.


It dosn't shock me thst these amps are running at a lower plate voltage.My p51 breaks up much quicker with more gain than my old 1987x which an at 470 volts,and was overall a cleaner amp.I havn't checked my Ceriatone yet. The manuel says average plate voltage for the p51 is 430v.


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## What?

2203xman said:


> It dosn't shock me thst these amps are running at a lower plate voltage.My p51 breaks up much quicker with more gain than my old 1987x which an at 470 volts,and was overall a cleaner amp.I havn't checked my Ceriatone yet. The manuel says average plate voltage for the p51 is 430v.



Yea, it breaks up pretty quick with humbuckers. 

I would be interested in seeing what plate voltage you are seeing in yours.


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## 2203xman

What? said:


> Yea, it breaks up pretty quick with humbuckers.
> 
> I would be interested in seeing what plate voltage you are seeing in yours.


I think I will hook up a insulated ali clip first before I fire up the amp.Never had an arc before but sounds scary.Glad it didnt zap you.


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## What?

2203xman said:


> I think I will hook up a insulated ali clip first before I fire up the amp.Never had an arc before but sounds scary.Glad it didnt zap you.


 
Yea, it might be a good idea. I also wonder here if voltage rating of the wire used in test leads might matter. Maybe I'm being overly paranoid now though after seeing that arc happen, which I never saw happen before. I also wonder how it happened given that plate voltage and screen voltage shouldn't be too far apart, something like 10 volts. The amp was in my work / jam shed though (aka the neighbors terrorizer room) with no AC and very high humidity lately, which could have had an influence.

While waiting on my fuses to come in I'll reflow pin 4 of that socket. It got a good bit of carbon on it from the arc. And cross my fingers that a blown fuse was the extent of the damage.


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## yladrd61

What? said:


> Yea, it might be a good idea. I also wonder here if voltage rating of the wire used in test leads might matter. Maybe I'm being overly paranoid now though after seeing that arc happen, which I never saw happen before. I also wonder how it happened given that plate voltage and screen voltage shouldn't be too far apart, something like 10 volts. The amp was in my work / jam shed though (aka the neighbors terrorizer room) with no AC and very high humidity lately, which could have had an influence.
> 
> While waiting on my fuses to come in I'll reflow pin 4 of that socket. It got a good bit of carbon on it from the arc. And cross my fingers that a blown fuse was the extent of the damage.


I would keep a close eye on that tube and screen resistor as EL34 screens normally dissipate 4 ma to 6 ma at idle.


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## 2203xman

Ok measured my plate voltage today and it was 445v.


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## What?

yladrd61 said:


> I would keep a close eye on that tube and screen resistor as EL34 screens normally dissipate 4 ma to 6 ma at idle.



Will do.


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## What?

2203xman said:


> Ok measured my plate voltage today and it was 445v.



Seems like we have a pretty big difference in voltages between our amps. Was yours checked with tubes in or out? Mine was with tubes in.


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## 2203xman

What? said:


> Seems like we have a pretty big difference in voltages between our amps. Was yours checked with tubes in or out? Mine was with tubes in.


With tubes in.It is a big difference.Would the dfferent tubes make a difference?


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## yladrd61

2203xman said:


> With tubes in.It is a big difference.Would the dfferent tubes make a difference?


Yes, different brands of rectifier tube will also make a noticeable difference.


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## Longer

Advice please! 

Just put a third down for a 51 All Access. Super excited, but reading this thread has me concerned. 

My thing is clean to a bit of crunch from pick attack alone. 
I also have a wonderfully loud drummer. 
I read here that the 51 may not have much clean headroom? 

Do you think I need a 101 to stay loud and clean? 

Also… 

Wanting an appropriate a cab, I found a great deal on a 1996 1960AX for $500. Had to jump on it!





But… if I go 101, I would be spooked only having a 100 watt cab.

Thoughts?

Any feed back would be much appreciated. Thank you!


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## 2203xman

The 50 does start to breakup fast.If you're not using an attenuator or ppimv you should be ok.It is pretty dynamic,and responds to pick attack nicely.With an attenuator,or at half power it will start to overdrive really early,and at noon on your volume you will already have a classic rock tone something like Paul Kossof,or even Angus.


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## Longer

2203xman said:


> The 50 does start to breakup fast.If you're not using an attenuator or ppimv you should be ok.It is pretty dynamic,and responds to pick attack nicely.With an attenuator,or at half power it will start to overdrive really early,and at noon on your volume you will already have a classic rock tone something like Paul Kossof,or even Angus.


Thank you 2203xman! 
Yes I like the idea of not using an attenuator or MV. Plus, struggling to stay clean is kind of the territory I like! 
Thanks again! This has been a fun thread.


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## solarburn

Longer said:


> Advice please!
> 
> Just put a third down for a 51 All Access. Super excited, but reading this thread has me concerned.
> 
> My thing is clean to a bit of crunch from pick attack alone.
> I also have a wonderfully loud drummer.
> I read here that the 51 may not have much clean headroom?
> 
> Do you think I need a 101 to stay loud and clean?
> 
> Also…
> 
> Wanting an appropriate a cab, I found a great deal on a 1996 1960AX for $500. Had to jump on it!
> 
> 
> View attachment 91898
> 
> 
> But… if I go 101, I would be spooked only having a 100 watt cab.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> Any feed back would be much appreciated. Thank you!



Nice grab on that cab. I would have jumped on it too!


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## Longer

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Nice grab on that cab. I would have jumped on it too!


Yes, I was stoked!
I was looking at Craigslist for a while with zero luck. Pretty unusual for Atlanta, as CL used to have most everything. I blamed the pandemic. 
Then I popped on Facebook Marketplace… Seems FBM the new CL.


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## yladrd61

The 51 will not break up as fast if you use the smaller or no bright cap, or the shared cathode and SS rectifier. If you get the 101 up to breakup volume you may not be able to hear the drummer lol


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## Longer

yladrd61 said:


> The 51 will not break up as fast if you use the smaller or no bright cap, or the shared cathode and SS rectifier. If you get the 101 up to breakup volume you may not be able to hear the drummer lol


Thanks yladrd61! 
That is exactly what I wanted to hear!


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## Longer

Still on the wait…
Nik says he’s knocking out orders from March. 
So, while the anticipation is still strong, any updates from owners? Still enjoying your amp? Any new owners loving it?


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## Longer

Anyone?


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## Guitar-Rocker

I've got to get my build of the 51 back on the bench to get finaled. Sadly I had way too many projects ahead of it, and it sets close to being fired up.


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## Peter Berlind Carlson

A question: What about the sound of delays/reverb in the loop as the master volume is PPIMV? 
The loop must be located pre phase inverter, and as the PI will be pushed into distortion I suppose that the sound of the effects is total mush?

Hopefully I'm wrong!

I really like the idea of the amp in general and would love to own one.


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## Longer

Peter Berlind Carlson said:


> A question: What about the sound of delays/reverb in the loop as the master volume is PPIMV?
> The loop must be located pre phase inverter, and as the PI will be pushed into distortion I suppose that the sound of the effects is total mush?
> 
> Hopefully I'm wrong!
> 
> I really like the idea of the amp in general and would love to own one.



All effect loops are pre phase inverter. The idea of a loop is to avoid your pre amp gain stages, which is where most people get their distortion. 
If you get your distortion from the phase inverter/power amp, then your reverb/delays will be distorted as well, no avoiding that, with any amp. 
If playing live through a PA, add your reverb/delay through the PA. 
For recording, you can always add your delays/reverb after you lay your tracks.


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## Peter Berlind Carlson

Thanks, as I thought then. 
Makes the loop unusable (for my needs) when pushing this style of amp into distortion.


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## Longer

Another option would be a Power Station, where you use it’s loop as you re-amp the Plexi.


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## ledvedder

I just completed my Plexi 51 build yesterday. I'm really enjoying it so far, but may try some different tubes. It has all JJs currently, which I've never really been a fan of. Any tube recommendations are welcome! Both preamp and power.


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## Longer

ledvedder said:


> I just completed my Plexi 51 build yesterday. I'm really enjoying it so far, but may try some different tubes. It has all JJs currently, which I've never really been a fan of. Any tube recommendations are welcome! Both preamp and power.


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