# Difference between Celestion G12M-70 and Vintage 30?



## JCM900MkIII

I was about to buy a Marshall 1960AV (1960 Vintage) cabinet, because I thought it had Celestion Vintage 30's in it. BUT when I read about the cabinet, it actually has Celestion G12M-70 speakers in it and is rated 280w at 16 ohms. What is the difference between these two speakers?


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## kamran

basically, nothing.
theyre just rebranded, regular v30s that for some reason are 70 watts instead of 60 watts. ive heard they have a lower frequency response of 55hz, but i really dont know. ive played them, and they sound good. thats all i really care about. if you want v30s those will be just fine. 
you sound pretty set on your decision on the 1960AV, and theyre great cabs. you wont be disappointed. 
cheers!


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## JCM900MkIII

I want to use a 1960AV on top and my regular 1960B on bottom. I know another guitar player that uses a Marshall 1960B on bottom with an Orange PPC-412 w/Vintage 30's on top and he gets great tone, good cut, and tight bottom-end. He also uses a Soldano SLO-100 and Marshall JCM900 combination, which has alot to do with his tone as well.


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## chuckharmonjr

Im running G12M70's in both my cabs and I love 'em...good lows....decent highs....mids that knock your dick in the dirt...punch from hell


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## 6StringMoFo

I don't know, this lads Jub sounds great thru a 1960 Cab with 75s

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tU7DFYYbrio]YouTube - Marshall Jubilee 2555[/ame]

Caption in his description

"Marshall Silver Jubilee 1987 through 1960 Lead Cab with 75 watt speakers. No pedals or mods, plugged straight in. Gibson Les Paul Classic."


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## diesect20022000

not sure. i know my cabs have english made (not the newer Chinese) V30's and they're 140w=2x12 and 280w=4x12. I checked them out to be sure but, yeah they're v30's. the new cabs they have with the new chinese v30's are 120w and 240watt so maybe it's a labeling for the english made v30's? not sure. If that were the case then mine would be some weird "transition" series of speakers though but, it's possible.


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## cagamp1

JCM900MkIII said:


> I was about to buy a Marshall 1960AV (1960 Vintage) cabinet, because I thought it had Celestion Vintage 30's in it. BUT when I read about the cabinet, it actually has Celestion G12M-70 speakers in it and is rated 280w at 16 ohms. What is the difference between these two speakers?


 
Those are not G12M-70's and they are not rebranded current Vintage 30's. Marshall has exclusive contracts for certain speakers. They will always have decals which indicate Marshall "by Celestion". The Marshall Vintage speakers have different "T" numbers which indicate different design specifications. The Vintage type speaker was modeled after the original G12H 30 watt, hence the "30". You will not see the "30" on a Marshall design...it only appears on the Celestion model.

The Marshall Vintage is a slightly lower (not much) in db level but has a little lower Fs and is rated at 70 watts when compared to the current Celestion Vintage 30. Marshall does not give out the exact specs.

I kinda like the Marshall design a little better.


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## JCM900MkIII

QUOTE: "The Marshall Vintage is a slightly lower (not much) in db level but has a little lower Fs and is rated at 70 watts when compared to the current Celestion Vintage 30."

The current Celestion Vintage 30 shows up in the Classic section on Celestion's webpage. It is only 60w and has a Sensitivity rating of 100dB (1W/1m). I have played through an Orange 4x12 loaded with Vintage 30's and find them to be grating, very predominant high midrange with an ice pick high end. If the Marshall version of the "Vintage 30" is a little darker, smoother, with lower sensitivity and 70w, I would probably like them. My other alternative would be to buy an empty Marshall 1960A cab and load it with Eminence Red Coat Wizards (75w ea with a Sensitivity of 103dB), good tight bottom-end, articulate punchy midrange and smooth highs.
I wonder if Malcolm in AC/DC is using Celestion Vintage 30's (60w) just like they advertise or does he really use the Marshallestion 70w version? I also read he uses some Marshall 1960B cabs loaded with Celestion G12H-30's as well as cabs loaded with Vintage 30's.


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## thetragichero

off topic, but nice carvin cab!


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## cagamp1

I can't tell you what Malcom uses.

All Vintage's will have a very efficient and loud upper mid/high range. Marshall's is just a tad bit tamer than Celestion. But they are designed after older speakers which were actually designed after even older speakers...the old AlNiCo speakers. Those vintage speakers are very efficient and very loud producing a very distinct but piercing even higher range. Awesome speakers too.

For less upper range, turn the treble down, EQ it or use some sort of blocker at center cone with those Vintages.

I'm no expert on Eminence sounds. The Wizards will defnitely be loud. One of the guys on this forum knows a good bit about Eminence...Maybe MartyStrat.


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## janarn

cagamp1 said:


> Those are not G12M-70's and they are not rebranded current Vintage 30's. Marshall has exclusive contracts for certain speakers. They will always have decals which indicate Marshall "by Celestion". The Marshall Vintage speakers have different "T" numbers which indicate different design specifications. The Vintage type speaker was modeled after the original G12H 30 watt, hence the "30". You will not see the "30" on a Marshall design...it only appears on the Celestion model.
> 
> The Marshall Vintage is a slightly lower (not much) in db level but has a little lower Fs and is rated at 70 watts when compared to the current Celestion Vintage 30. Marshall does not give out the exact specs.
> 
> I kinda like the Marshall design a little better.


That was a lot of new information for me.

I thought the Vintage 30 was introduced in 1986,
had nothing to do with the G12H,
and was rated 70W in Marshall cabs, and 60W from Celestion. (Doyle)


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## cagamp1

janarn said:


> That was a lot of new information for me.
> 
> I thought the Vintage 30 was introduced in 1986,
> had nothing to do with the G12H,
> and was rated 70W in Marshall cabs, and 60W from Celestion. (Doyle)


 
Doyle mentions the speakers origin, but he doesn't get into detail. The "Vintage" and the "Vintage 30" are twins, but not identical.

Marshall complained and wanted more authentic sounding vintage speakers. The Vintage speakers were to be modeled after the old AlNiCo's, just as were the old G12 ceramic types. They decided to once again use the "H" magnets because actual AlNiCo was too expensive. So the Vintage type speakers ended up with the "H" magnet, a larger voice coil and a 444 type cone. But Celestion "Vintage 30" speakers are just a little different. Just like most other companies with special request and contracts, Marshall most likely has patents on there special order speakers.

Something else to mention is that Marshall Vintage speakers have never changed. Celestion Vintage 30's have changed at least 2 or maybe three times since inception. You will notice different "T" numbers on different era Celestion Vintage 30's.


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## guitar76

So what is the tonal difference bewtween the two speakers?


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## cagamp1

guitar76 said:


> So what is the tonal difference bewtween the two speakers?


 
Between which two...the Vintages or Vint/g12m-70?


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## Ken

JCM900MkIII said:


> He also uses a Soldano SLO-100 and Marshall JCM900 combination, which has alot to do with his tone as well.



That's a good combination! The 900's ice pick with the Soldono's meat blended for sonic thunder. If I weren't a Marshall guy I'd have a Soldono.

Ken


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## guitar76

cagamp1 said:


> Between which two...the Vintages or Vint/g12m-70?



v30 vs. v12m-70. I run a DSL50 through a 1960A that has g12m's and it sounds boomy and I can't seem to EQ all of the mud out. It may not be broke in because I think the previous owner of the cab only played an AVT150 head through it and we play small gigs that rarely see the vol over 3. I also though I might complete the stack with a used v30 1960B and find out which cab I prefer for my regular half stack setup. Any thoughts out there on this idea?


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## cagamp1

guitar76 said:


> v30 vs. v12m-70. I run a DSL50 through a 1960A that has g12m's and it sounds boomy and I can't seem to EQ all of the mud out. It may not be broke in because I think the previous owner of the cab only played an AVT150 head through it and we play small gigs that rarely see the vol over 3. I also though I might complete the stack with a used v30 1960B and find out which cab I prefer for my regular half stack setup. Any thoughts out there on this idea?


 
There's a big difference. The V30 is 3db louder and has a lower Fs of 75Hz.

Check out this link.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ok-cvjfvBBc]YouTube - Celestion Vintage 30 and M-70 comparison.wmv[/ame]


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## guitar76

Just going by that clip I prefer the v30. What do others say about my situation a few posts above?


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## Deep Purple fan

That video was the kiss of death for the 70! The V30 is at a different level.


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## keennay

cagamp1 said:


> There's a big difference. The V30 is 3db louder and has a lower Fs of 75Hz.
> 
> Check out this link.
> YouTube - Celestion Vintage 30 and M-70 comparison.wmv



You know, I would've expected that clip to sound better especially with a $1300+ mic.


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## BigMacFullerton

cagamp1 said:


> There's a big difference. The V30 is 3db louder and has a lower Fs of 75Hz.
> 
> Check out this link.
> YouTube - Celestion Vintage 30 and M-70 comparison.wmv



WOW! The V-30's sound amazing and loud the 70's not so good. I have been using 75's crossed with 70's but I'm going to replace the 70's with Vintage 30's after hearing that sound test for sure! It's not even close!


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## dreyn77

Big mistake!

WOW! lots of people have read some TOTAL rubbish information in this thread.  

the song by RATT comes to mind. "Round and round". 
the BS is recycled over and over decade after decade. 

what you hear with any recorded speaker sound is the NON center of the cab sound. it's BAD sound. and shouldn't ever be used to judge a speaker sound. 
(what's that? we're judging again? hearing something that's different? gosh we need mental help with all this cave people perspective all the time) 

Celestion NEVER quotes you the sound of their speakers from this mic'ed up sound perspective. 

they only quote what the sound is like comming out from the center of the box where the speakers are located. (as if you're standing infront listening to the sound) 

celestion has advanced their speakers in the last 20 years so the vintage 30 speaker is almost useless today. 
fender is upto tuning the whole speaker and cab as a complete package. Vintage 30 is just a paper cup stuck in a box of wood. 

there's nothing computer age about it.


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## BowerR64

I find the G12M-70 pretty boomy myself and lacking good midrange. IMO its more of a metal spaeker to me they sound like they have slightly scooped mids next to a V30.

I prefer the V30 over the G12M-70


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## geddyleefan

BowerR64 said:


> I find the G12M-70 pretty boomy myself and lacking good midrange. IMO its more of a metal spaeker to me they sound like they have slightly scooped mids next to a V30.
> 
> I prefer the V30 over the G12M-70



Aren't the 12M-70s also known as the Modern Leads, hence the fact their made for more heavy low end modern rock and metal ? Anywho, the underrated 12M-70s are ok by themselves but I think if you break em in and pair em with other speakers they really hold up well. I've paired em with Classic Leads or G12-65s and I always had a wall of tone in a 412 cab


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## geddyleefan

dreyn77 said:


> Big mistake!
> 
> WOW! lots of people have read some TOTAL rubbish information in this thread.
> 
> the song by RATT comes to mind. "Round and round".
> the BS is recycled over and over decade after decade.
> 
> what you hear with any recorded speaker sound is the NON center of the cab sound. it's BAD sound. and shouldn't ever be used to judge a speaker sound.
> (what's that? we're judging again? hearing something that's different? gosh we need mental help with all this cave people perspective all the time)
> 
> Celestion NEVER quotes you the sound of their speakers from this mic'ed up sound perspective.
> 
> they only quote what the sound is like comming out from the center of the box where the speakers are located. (as if you're standing infront listening to the sound)
> 
> celestion has advanced their speakers in the last 20 years so the vintage 30 speaker is almost useless today.
> fender is upto tuning the whole speaker and cab as a complete package. Vintage 30 is just a paper cup stuck in a box of wood.
> 
> there's nothing computer age about it.



You forgot to mention one of the most overly used phrase to describe new speakers is that they forget to break em in. Funny cause why should you pay several hundred bucks for a several speakers only for them to sound ho-hum. I've owned a bunch of 12M-70s, Classic Leads and V30s and they all sounded great regardless of year or broken in or brand new. Is it the fact that more and more guitarist are becoming too complacent with the abundance of speakers so its easy to toss one aside and blame it on "broken in" or whatever theory it is.


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## Coachz

I got that too from the video, very scooped for the Metal crowd. If Celestion has made lots of progress from the Vintage it must not apply to classic hard rock because the Vintage seems to be the one for that.



BowerR64 said:


> I find the G12M-70 pretty boomy myself and lacking good midrange. IMO its more of a metal spaeker to me they sound like they have slightly scooped mids next to a V30.
> 
> I prefer the V30 over the G12M-70


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