# Who Can Build A Mini Major?



## JKrauland

Who's a solid builder I could commission a Mini Major from? I did some research and saw that fusionbear and danfrank have done builds. My main goal is to preserve the original circuit while lowering the power needs and weight of the amp. So at most 100W but ideally even lower. If it could fit into a jtm45 size head cab that would be great. As long as its under 40 pounds i'm a happy camper.

Thanks a bunch


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## Coronado

If I'm not mistaken, didn't Micheal RT just build a multi-watt Major? I could totally be wrong here, my apologies if I'm remembering this incorrectly.


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## AlvisX

Just being curious. What is the appeal of a mini Major ?
Is the purpose to achieve a loud,clean signal, or how would it differ from what you could do with a plain ol' 100 watter


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## m1989jmp

AlvisX said:


> Just being curious. What is the appeal of a mini Major ?
> Is the purpose to achieve a loud,clean signal, or how would it differ from what you could do with a plain ol' 100 watter



Quite a few differences when compared to, let's say, Marshall 1959. Notably cathodyne PI and output transformer with ultralinear taps.


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## ampmadscientist

JKrauland said:


> Who's a solid builder I could commission a Mini Major from? I did some research and saw that fusionbear and danfrank have done builds. My main goal is to preserve the original circuit while lowering the power needs and weight of the amp. So at most 100W but ideally even lower. If it could fit into a jtm45 size head cab that would be great. As long as its under 40 pounds i'm a happy camper.
> 
> Thanks a bunch


About 40 watts is enough to blow out of the room. 100 would be absurd.


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## Guitar-Rocker

For once, I agree with MAS. Well put.


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## AlvisX

m1989jmp said:


> Quite a few differences when compared to, let's say, Marshall 1959. Notably cathodyne PI and output transformer with ultralinear taps.



Yes, the schematic differences are understood ,having spent a good bit of time inside the Major. My opinion of the Major is that it's a LOUD/ clean amp...pretty well up the dial.That's one of the reasons I got one,to play bass out of it . 
Other than that ,I was tryin' to understand what tonal characteristics one might be lookin for out of a Major ,or a mini Major 

Now as I said, I find it to be a loud clean amp up the dial,especially with guitar.....crispy.
Not a sustain-y amp,so to speak.It really feels like you gotta you gotta have some kind of trick to get a little grind n juice out of it .......
Blackmore's alleged tape recorders /reverb units /cascade mods
R/T's outa sight one wire ,My 2203 mod ....somethin


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## BowerR64

Well yeah he would want the same exact preamp as the major but then redo the power section so that it is anything but 200 watts.

Then do the same mods as R/T or the one wire mod or what ever to get the same sort of grit.

I wouldnt mind one of those myself, everything exactly the same as the major with the same R/T type of mods but without the PIG power.

The problem is the budget


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## printer

So just a jtm45 preamp and a clean power amp until the output clips, say 40-50W?


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## BowerR64

printer said:


> So just a jtm45 preamp and a clean power amp until the output clips, say 40-50W?



Your saying a JTM45 is the same as a major? I thought the major with all the holes is a diferent thing?


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## J5684

There are a few different "Majors" the PA is the one with all the inputs. There are two version from what I remember. The first version had the split tone controls "ala" Sound City amps design. The 2nd version went back to the standard passive tone controls.


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## printer

J5684 said:


> There are a few different "Majors" the PA is the one with all the inputs. There are two version from what I remember. The first version had the split tone controls "ala" Sound City amps design. The 2nd version went back to the standard passive tone controls.



I just took a look for other schematics, I see this one does not have different cathode biasing but is more in line with the Bassman. But that makes sense if it was to be used for a PA amp.






As compared to this,






or,






No idea if there are more out there.


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## AlvisX

Mine is a '68 PA,that I snatched out of a guitard center of all places
It had an absolutely horrible squeally one wire mod on the 1st two channels , which guitar center guy described as "some distortion"
Force of habit , I changed it to basically a 2203 preamp
The other 2 channels are left alone 'cept for a brite cap on one


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## ampmadscientist

Pretty much "any": Plexi kit can be easily changed to a mini major.....so there is really no need to start from scratch.
Pretty much any Plexi / 2204 which is already built can be easily changed.

POWER
Changing output tubes to Triode will give you 40W from a 100W amp. OR
alternative is to use a multi-tap power transformer (such as classic tone) to lower the B+ voltages.
It is really easy to change the output to triode.

I build / change Triode amps all the time, and it's a good alternative to over-powered amps.
I find 18W to be plenty....
50 watt amp changed to triode is about 18 watts.
The thing will blow you away at 18 watts, it's loud past ridiculous.


But really: I don't see any advantage. (unless you play bass?)
The Major is going to have a clean preamp and it will be cranked up to get output tube distortion....just like a Plexi.
Not a whole lot of difference tone-wise, between Major and Plexi. They are almost the same anyway....except for the brightness of Plexi which is a small difference in parts.


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## mAx___

Mini Majors have become very popular lately. I can only say good things about mine now that I have redone it to "Blackmore" specs. By itself the Major is useless for lead guitar tones. But once modded it becomes IMO one of the best sounding plexis there are. There is a very noticeable difference in sound between a Major and a Lead or Superlead amps. I'm sure it also applies to Bass spec plexis. Very different circuit and components.

Be careful with those schematics posted above as they have multiple errors. The .47uF caps after the driver stage should be .047uF and the 250R screen grid resistors should be at least 10W. Original spec is 250R/25W. There's probably more.


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## mickeydg5

Why not just call it what it will be, a Mini or whatever? Drop the Major because once modified out of power category it is no longer a Major.


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## mAx___

It's still a Major circuit. If you don't call it a (mini-, half-, etc.-) Major, nobody would have any idea of what amp you're talking about. That said, one builder in Germany calls his " the Minor".


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## mickeydg5

I would rather it be called the _Minor_.

All _Major_ amplifiers are 200 watt, supposedly.

I am still considering them modified _Bassman_ amplifiers anyway.


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## mAx___

The OP asked for a "Mini Major" build, implying a less-than 200W amp. I prefer to describe mine as a "2xKT88 Major build" so that people reading posts or watching YouTube understand that it's a half-powered version of the original. That way I can also appear in YT searches for "Marshall Major". By now it seems that mostly everybody calls it Mini Major though. I don't think you can remove the Major from the name without losing track of what it is. Like just calling "the Mouse"to Mickey. Which mouse?


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## mickeydg5

So that would be a Half Major.

I am just pulling yous guys strings. Call it what you want.


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## danfrank

Mickey takes a back seat to Jerry, in my book.

BTW, the OP hasn't even replied back to this thread so maybe he's looking for a Blackmore style amp or maybe the other kind... 

I always question when an OP starts a thread and then isn't heard from again in the thread that they started.


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## printer

The only thing I see which really sets the amp apart from other Marshalls is the Cathodyne phase splitter and the gain stage after it.


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## danfrank

The Ultra-Linear output stage will also make it sound different than most other guitar amps.


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## ampmadscientist

mickeydg5 said:


> I would rather it be called the _Minor_.
> 
> All _Major_ amplifiers are 200 watt, supposedly.
> 
> I am still considering them modified _Bassman_ amplifiers anyway.



There is a certain Major which has 6 output tubes. This is a more powerful version (the design is un-stable). This model was discontinued rapidly.
I have seen 2 of these Majors. I think they are extremely rare.
Yes, I do think the transformer was ultralinear, as I recall.
I have no idea as to the history, except that I think it was developed for Deep Purple ( I read this somewhere...).

If anybody knows the history of the 6 tube Major, I would like to know.


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## mickeydg5

Are you talking about the 2000 series Lead head? It had 6 6550 with 250W output but that was in the eighties.


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## proxy

This is schematics as Fusionbear uploaded.


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## danfrank

ampmadscientist said:


> There is a certain Major which has 6 output tubes. This is a more powerful version (the design is un-stable). This model was discontinued rapidly.
> I have seen 2 of these Majors. I think they are extremely rare.
> Yes, I do think the transformer was ultralinear, as I recall.
> I have no idea as to the history, except that I think it was developed for Deep Purple ( I read this somewhere...).
> 
> If anybody knows the history of the 6 tube Major, I would like to know.



Not a Major. They were released in 1981 or 1982 and very few were sold. The LEAD version was 250 watts with 6 6550s and the Bass version had 8 6550s and good for 375 watts. The B+ was over 600 volts in these two amps but they weren't in ultra-linear configuration; just standard pentode configuration like the SuperLeads and 2203/04s of the time.

Here's the lead version schematic:

https://www.thetubestore.com/lib/thetubestore/schematics/Marshall/Marshall-2000-250W-Schematic.pdf

Bass version here:

https://www.thetubestore.com/lib/thetubestore/schematics/Marshall/Marshall-2001-375W-Schematic.pdf

The preamps in these were pretty versatile.


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## BowerR64

8 power tubes in one box!!?!? jesus

It came stock with wheels and a back support strap right?


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## danfrank

How about this for mini?!? LOL! One of my 100 watt "PIG" amps in an 18 watt cabinet!


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## neikeel

danfrank said:


> How about this for mini?!? LOL! One of my 100 watt "PIG" amps in an 18 watt cabinet!
> 
> View attachment 57018
> 
> View attachment 57019
> 
> View attachment 57020



........and the rest of the pics


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## ampmadscientist

danfrank said:


> Not a Major. They were released in 1981 or 1982 and very few were sold. The LEAD version was 250 watts with 6 6550s and the Bass version had 8 6550s and good for 375 watts. The B+ was over 600 volts in these two amps but they weren't in ultra-linear configuration; just standard pentode configuration like the SuperLeads and 2203/04s of the time.
> 
> Here's the lead version schematic:
> 
> https://www.thetubestore.com/lib/thetubestore/schematics/Marshall/Marshall-2000-250W-Schematic.pdf
> 
> Bass version here:
> 
> https://www.thetubestore.com/lib/thetubestore/schematics/Marshall/Marshall-2001-375W-Schematic.pdf
> 
> The preamps in these were pretty versatile.



I have worked on a couple 6 power tube majors.
The B+ was actually more than 700 volts as I recall....
But Marshall had problems with stability and the amps were prone to motor boating / oscillations.
(seems like a lot of amps that tried 6 power tubes were unstable)
The 8 power tube (KT88) bass amp is currently being sold by Hiwatt, a 400 watt most powerful tube bass amp..about $5300.00


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## danfrank

neikeel said:


> ........and the rest of the pics



I'll have to open it up and take pictures. I was trying to get it built before a trip I took to L.A. so I didn't take pics like I should have. Funny thing is I stopped by at Freidman's shop in North Hollywood and asked them if they'd like to try it out and their reply was, "Oh I'd LOVE to try it out and see how it sounds, but we're SO swamped right now". LOL!


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## ant_riv

Robert Hinson made a ‘Mini-Major’ for me in 2014.
I have several of his builds, and they are each outstanding.

https://imgur.com/gallery/0EDX1iz


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## mAx___

Here's my 100w 2xKT88 "Blackmore" Major build. It has my take on the factory mods he did in 1970. I build them for fun and keep them affordable.
Direct to amp, treble booster is off. Just some reverb added and minimal EQ.
Blackmore's guitar is removed from the backing tracks.


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## proxy

ant_riv said:


> Robert Hinson made a ‘Mini-Major’ for me in 2014.
> I have several of his builds, and they are each outstanding.
> 
> https://imgur.com/gallery/0EDX1iz




Do you have any more pics of your Mini Major?
Inside pics?
Thanks


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## Kats

Max, that sound was right on! Definitely unique enough in tone to make it a worthwhile addition.


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## neikeel

mAx___ said:


> Here's my 100w 2xKT88 "Blackmore" Major build. It has my take on the factory mods he did in 1970. I build them for fun and keep them affordable.
> Direct to amp, treble booster is off. Just some reverb added and minimal EQ.
> Blackmore's guitar is removed from the backing tracks.




Is this the amp that was being debugged in the thread recently? It certainly seems to nail the Blackmore tone in my head, at least. How close is this to the schem posted by Proxy above? I have a couple of UL transformers (25-30w) that might make a mini-minor-Major, I also have some KT88s, of course whether they are the tubes to try in a lower output version is moot. Just thinking what to do next once my Ormat projects are wound up (oh and the JTM restos!).


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## danfrank

neikeel said:


> ........and the rest of the pics



Opened up the amp today, so here you go:







The output transformer is from a Dynaco Mark II and this amp doesn't have the nice treble chime that my other builds have, which use Hammond OTs. This one makes for a better bass amp though.


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## mAx___

neikeel said:


> Is this the amp that was being debugged in the thread recently? It certainly seems to nail the Blackmore tone in my head, at least. How close is this to the schem posted by Proxy above? I have a couple of UL transformers (25-30w) that might make a mini-minor-Major, I also have some KT88s, of course whether they are the tubes to try in a lower output version is moot. Just thinking what to do next once my Ormat projects are wound up (oh and the JTM restos!).


No, the amp in that thread was a clone of this one, which never had an issue despite being constantly messed with 
The schematic above is fairly different than what I have in general. Mine has an extra valve instead of a cascade type of thing. The Major chassis already had an extra hole (for the PA version) and I was told that the factory used it for the mods made to Blackmore's amp. His use of the Bright Channel high sensitivity input seems to confirm this. Also, I tried the Lar/Mar MV but it sounded really bad compared to the attenuator so I removed it. IME this amp needs to be operated as a regular NMV plexi.


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## mAx___

Kats said:


> Max, that sound was right on! Definitely unique enough in tone to make it a worthwhile addition.


Thank you so much, Kats!


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## neikeel

Blackeyes said:


> I had two of the M1000's the first week they were released and had problems with both of them within 3 months. I gave up on them later...
> I had a preamp of his that was pretty good till I heard a Langner DCP1 and it was over at that point.
> I think I heard the heads got better later, maybe the early ones were more problematic. We were gigging non stop at that point and we had enough problems that had nothing to do with the amps (hehehehe) I had to pick my battles carefully to retain my sanity.
> They did sound pretty good, you had to crank them to really get the goods, kinda like an SLO.





mAx___ said:


> No, the amp in that thread was a clone of this one, which never had an issue in spite of being constantly messed with
> The schematic above is fairly different than what I have in general. Mine has an extra valve instead of a cascade type of thing. The Major chassis already had an extra hole (for the PA version) and I was told that the factory used it for the mods made to Blackmore's amp. His use of the Bright Channel high sensitivity input seems to confirm this. Also, I tried the Lar/Mar MV but it sounded really bad compared to the attenuator so I removed it. IME this amp needs to be operated as a regular NMV plexi.



Can you share your schem?


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## mAx___

neikeel said:


> Can you share your schem?


Over the years the YT channel generated some interest and I started selling these amps, for fun. Not a lot of them but it’s slowly picking up.


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## Rej

mAx___ said:


> Here's my 100w 2xKT88 "Blackmore" Major build. It has my take on the factory mods he did in 1970. I build them for fun and keep them affordable.
> Direct to amp, treble booster is off. Just some reverb added and minimal EQ.
> Blackmore's guitar is removed from the backing tracks.



outstanding Max! im a huge Blackmore fan and have been trying for this tone for so long with boosters / 2203 / 1986 / 4210 / ac30 / ac50 / 1992. Close but nowhere near you.Looks like i need a mini major lol....great playing mate you have it nailed big time


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## neikeel

mAx___ said:


> Over the years the YT channel generated some interest and I started selling these amps, for fun. Not a lot of them but it’s slowly picking up.



Ok. Perhaps an idea to say you are a commercial builder when people give lots of free advice when problem solving, or maybe I missed that in other posts?
http://www.marshallforum.com/threads/cascading-non-mv-plexi.106957/
Your amps in the videos sound very good and very Blackmore, I am sure your customers will enjoy them too.


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## mAx___

neikeel said:


> Ok. Perhaps an idea to say you are a commercial builder when people give lots of free advice when problem solving, or maybe I missed that in other posts?
> http://www.marshallforum.com/threads/cascading-non-mv-plexi.106957/
> Your amps in the videos sound very good and very Blackmore, I am sure your customers will enjoy them too.


Thanks.
Regarding your other point (and the thread you linked to has nothing to do with the amp I sell), in all the years I've been frequenting this site I've never seen anybody conditioning their helpfulness to whether the guy asking the question was keeping the amp or selling it.


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## mAx___

Rej said:


> outstanding Max! im a huge Blackmore fan and have been trying for this tone for so long with boosters / 2203 / 1986 / 4210 / ac30 / ac50 / 1992. Close but nowhere near you.Looks like i need a mini major lol....great playing mate you have it nailed big time


Thanks so much Rej!


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## neikeel

mAx___ said:


> Thanks.
> Regarding your other point (and the thread you linked to has nothing to do with the amp I sell), in all the years I've been frequenting this site I've never seen anybody conditioning their helpfulness to whether the guy asking the question was keeping the amp or selling it.



More a question of share and share alike in a public forum. Of course we can respect your desire to keep your work and research to yourself so that you can sell it on, just a personal opinion. Others do it too so why shouldn't you?


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## danfrank

mAx___ said:


> Here's my 100w 2xKT88 "Blackmore" Major build.




Hi, nice sounding amp! I always enjoy what people create and show on these forums... What is the B+ voltage in this amp, if you don’t mind me asking?


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## danfrank

danfrank said:


> Opened up the amp today, so here you go:
> 
> View attachment 57580
> 
> 
> View attachment 57581
> 
> 
> The output transformer is from a Dynaco Mark II and this amp doesn't have the nice treble chime that my other builds have, which use Hammond OTs. This one makes for a better bass amp though.



Ok, I now have the chime in this amp!
I always find it amazing how power supply configuration and values really does make a difference in how an amp ends up sounding.


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## danfrank

So much good info here... Where’s the OP? By now he should be able to make a super informed decision as to what he’s looking for....
Lol!


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## mAx___

danfrank said:


> Hi, nice sounding amp! I always enjoy what people create and show on these forums... What is the B+ voltage in this amp, if you don’t mind me asking?


Thanks! I believe it's 487V.


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## danfrank

Zzzappp!


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## fifteenohms

mAx___ said:


> I prefer to describe mine as a "2xKT88 Major build" so that people reading posts or watching YouTube understand that it's a half-powered version of the original.



But then your Pig is not really a real Pig!

Don’t get me wrong: I loooved how Page and Blackmore used ‘em, so it was once the only Marshall I expected to acquire.

Then in 1990 I tried my first one and it was a letdown because the only two guys putting them to good use lived a few miles from the bench and personalized service, any time, so they’re awful in stock form.

The only only only guy to make a somewhat-decent “half-powered Pig” sounding specimen, is a thing that Hovercraft guy did using two KT77’s.

It was impressive.


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## fifteenohms

JKrauland said:


> Who's a solid builder I could commission a Mini Major from? I did some research and saw that fusionbear and danfrank have done builds. My main goal is to preserve the original circuit while lowering the power needs and weight of the amp. So at most 100W but ideally even lower. If it could fit into a jtm45 size head cab that would be great. As long as its under 40 pounds i'm a happy camper.
> 
> Thanks a bunch



This Hovercraft in a KT77 format is more Major than a Major and clips more deep w better cleans than an early 70’s Klipp.

The sound of the good weight doesn’t come lightly:


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## mAx___

fifteenohms said:


> But then your Pig is not really a real Pig!
> 
> Don’t get me wrong: I loooved how Page and Blackmore used ‘em, so it was once the only Marshall I expected to acquire.
> 
> Then in 1990 I tried my first one and it was a letdown because the only two guys putting them to good use lived a few miles from the bench and personalized service, any time, so they’re awful in stock form.
> 
> The only only only guy to make a somewhat-decent “half-powered Pig” sounding specimen, is a thing that Hovercraft guy did using two KT77’s.
> 
> It was impressive.


Correct. Mine is not based on the "Pig", which was a much different circuit, but on the model after that -simply known as the Major (1968-1974).
I agree with you, a stock Major is indeed a very sterile guitar amp. Once modded right though...best Marshall ever. 
Personally, I didn't like the sound of the Hovercraft in the video. Very un-Marshall to my ears.


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## Filipe Soares

great thread! after having my old 69' major overhauled and modded (RT mod/master volume) I just fell in love with the amp, again! so I wondering about a "half major" with 2 KT88 runing about 80w in a lighter/smaller cab and here we go again. who could do it? exactly the same pre, with master volume, rt mod, a loop would be great and 2 power tubes only.


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## neikeel

I’m sure mAx___ can make you one


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## mAx___

neikeel said:


> I’m sure mAx___ can make you one


Hehe, thanks for the publicity. I just finished one. I think I'll take a good break for the moment.


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## proxy

[QUOTE="mAx___
Personally, I didn't like the sound of the Hovercraft in the video. Very un-Marshall to my ears.[/QUOTE]

i could not agree more


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## Garth Rocket

ampmadscientist said:


> There is a certain Major which has 6 output tubes. This is a more powerful version (the design is un-stable). This model was discontinued rapidly.
> I have seen 2 of these Majors. I think they are extremely rare.
> Yes, I do think the transformer was ultralinear, as I recall.
> I have no idea as to the history, except that I think it was developed for Deep Purple ( I read this somewhere...).
> 
> If anybody knows the history of the 6 tube Major, I would like to know.


I just read your comment about a rare 6 tube Major. I may have stumbled upon one. It has what I believe to be factory white paint. Here’s a couple pics.


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## neikeel

It’s an odd one. 
Nothing really looks like it was original Marshall except possibly the chassis and head cab. 
Is the head cab full size Major or SL? (OT maybe but given its label it I a replacement. All the octal holes look hand cut and the screws are new. 
There is a shadow like there was a choke or similar up top at some time. 
Well worth some more detailed inside pics and a closer look.


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## Matthews Guitars

Factory painted white panel on a Major? I most seriously doubt that. Somebody painted it white and applied the legends with Letraset transfers, I'd wager. There's another topic with that amp in it and the general notion is that it's been victimized by an amp tech who had ideas but not good ones. 

Now as for the idea of a mini major with an ultralinear output transformer, that'd be fine if you're going to run the power stage clean and not saturate the transformer. The sound of an ultralinear transformer saturating is NOT pleasant. You don't want that. 

It's one of the reasons why the later silverface Fender amps with ultralinear output transformers have a bad reputation. They're great sounding amps, until you saturate those transformers. That's ugly then.


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## mAx___

Garth Rocket said:


> I just read your comment about a rare 6 tube Major. I may have stumbled upon one. It has what I believe to be factory white paint. Here’s a couple pics.
> View attachment 92511
> View attachment 92512
> View attachment 92513


Looks inspired by what Blackmore described was done to his amps at some point (likely by Dawk Stillwell). And then back to stock. At least from the outside.


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## Garth Rocket

It pretty much looks like it was rigged up like this one that’s for sale in Ohio


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## Gene Ballzz

I'm wondering if that *"STORMBRINGER"* amp pictured in post #64 has that name referring to *Deep Purple's* album of that name or if it toured with the back up band here:

https://www.stormbringerband.com/index.html

Just Curious?
Gene


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## mAx___

It's the tribute band Stormbringer from Ohio. I looked them up on YT but found nothing. Too bad...


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## Gene Ballzz

While all the Majors are pretty cool in their own rites, I am most enamored with and intrigued by the three knob "Pig" and it's unique preamp. I wish there was more info to be found, such as preamp voltages, etc! Might be fun to build a 15 watt to 50 watt version, with either 6V6s or KT66s. I'm betting tons of gain and drive, given that there is no tone stack to draw it down. I'm also guessing the tone is fairly pure and unadulterated, with bunches of harmonic overtones, even when not distorted! The "Pig" strikes me as the most unusual of the whole bunch, yet seems to generate the least discussion interests.

It would be fabulous to hear some more on this subject from @danfrank ?

Just Sayin'
Gene


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## danfrank

Hi,
I'm late to the party again, I just saw this... My apologies.
The best thread to get schematic, voltages and other info is the thread Pleximaster did:

https://www.marshallforum.com/threads/slaughtered-pig-what-do-do-with-this-one.78770/

I think towards the end of the thread there are some posts where I took voltages and comared them to Pleximaster's voltages.

One thing I will add here is the unique preamp is half of the formula for the "PIG" sound. The other half of the formula is the voltages on the output tubes. The plates of the KT88s use 700-720 volts, the output tube's screens have around 400-420 volts. Having these two different high voltages on the output tubes does two things... 
1) It makes 200+ watts from 4 output tubes 
& 
2) It makes for a clean sounding amp. The PIG won't break up till it is turned WAY up. It's nothing like an EL34 amp, like traditional Marshalls. 

There are others that have attempted to make Mini PIGs with lower voltages and only two output tubes. In my opinion they don't sound the same because having lower voltages with the output tube's plate and screens at the same B+ (400-450 volts) makes for an output section that behaves differently. The screen voltage in relation to the plate voltage is a BIG determining factor on how the output stage will act and sound.
But one could always use the correct voltages on the output tubes but just use 2 output tubes. It would make for a "tiny" PIG, good for only 100 watts output!
Lol


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## ibmorjamn

danfrank said:


> Mickey takes a back seat to Jerry, in my book.
> 
> BTW, the OP hasn't even replied back to this thread so maybe he's looking for a Blackmore style amp or maybe the other kind...
> 
> I always question when an OP starts a thread and then isn't heard from again in the thread that they started.


Anyone


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## mAx___

danfrank said:


> Hi,
> I'm late to the party again, I just saw this... My apologies.
> The best thread to get schematic, voltages and other info is the thread Pleximaster did:
> 
> https://www.marshallforum.com/threads/slaughtered-pig-what-do-do-with-this-one.78770/


The "Pig" and the Major are two completely different amps.


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## Matthews Guitars

Correct. All the Pig and the Major share is the 200 watt rating and four output tubes. Beyond that, they're both Marshalls and that's about it.


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## danfrank

mAx___ said:


> The "Pig" and the Major are two completely different amps.



Ok, and you're telling me this because??
I was just providing an answer to Gene Ballzz post.

If you want to get technical about it, the PIG was the first amp to carry the "Major" name. It was on the back plate of the amp. Take a look at the link I provided above and see the pictures within...

Not that it's really important...


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## mAx___

danfrank said:


> Ok, and you're telling me this because??
> I was just providing an answer to Gene Ballzz post.
> 
> If you want to get technical about it, the PIG was the first amp to carry the "Major" name. It was on the back plate of the amp. Take a look at the link I provided above and see the pictures within...
> 
> Not that it's really important...


I missed the part where you were answering to another post. Too many people mistake both models precisely because they both were called Major.


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## Spanngitter

Coming back to a Mini Major: Where do you draw the line for "Mini"? At 100W, at 50W, at 20W? 
If somebody would ask me for a Mini Major I would adopt the PreAmp of the Major and add a 2x EL84 Power Amp with an UL OT like the Edcor CXPP21
This would then be a little, fairly clean 20W Poweramp...


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## pleximaster

I havent read the whole thread but do you mean a later 1968-mid 70´s are the first Marshall 200 Majors aka the Pig.

The later Majors have similar preamps as other Marshalls but the Pigs have a very different one where the the tone controls interact with each other. One could say thet the three controls are three master controls, one for bass one for treble and och volume. Its a bit like playing around with the channel one and channel two on a jumped 4-holer. 

This one would be interesting to downsize into a smaller package. I always pull two KT88s out of my Marshall majors pig as I never need 200 watts (Or unreality about 160-170 watts) but two KT88 are loud enough....

I would test making an amp with the pig preamp an a single KT88 in the power section at rather high voltage pushing the KT88. 

plexi


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## Gene Ballzz

pleximaster said:


> I havent read the whole thread but do you mean a later 1968-mid 70´s are the first Marshall 200 Majors aka the Pig.
> 
> The later Majors have similar preamps as other Marshalls but the Pigs have a very different one where the the tone controls interact with each other. One could say thet the three controls are three master controls, one for bass one for treble and och volume. Its a bit like playing around with the channel one and channel two on a jumped 4-holer.
> 
> This one would be interesting to downsize into a smaller package. I always pull two KT88s out of my Marshall majors pig as I never need 200 watts (Or unreality about 160-170 watts) but two KT88 are loud enough....
> 
> I would test making an amp with the pig preamp an a single KT88 in the power section at rather high voltage pushing the KT88.
> 
> plexi



I was thinking similarly, but considering a pair of 6V6s in the power section. The current JJ offerings can tolerate some fairly high plate voltages, while allowing only a relatively small number of watts of dissipation. And with the fairly high plate voltage, there would still be enough room to allow the screens to operate at a similar ratio to the plates as the original PIG? I guess I gotta build one, _*"JUST BECAUSE!" *_I need to finish my Twi-Luxe first, though!

Unbeknownst to many who are used to squeezing big wattage out of amps, 6V6s can exhibit/display many of the sonic, dynamic and response characteristics of many *"big"* bottles, simply at a much lower power output! And those CP JJ 6V6S can well tolerate up to 500V on their plates!

I want to thank @danfrank for his friendly and pertinent response. While not looking for a fire breathing demolition machine, I am very intrigued and enamored by the unique nature of the PIG's preamp and the possibilities it may bring to the sonic table. There is a nice discussion I started about this over at the Amp Garage and a member there shared this schematic of a fairly authentic version using KT66s at about 450V on the plates. 




The Amp Garage http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=34848&start=15 can seem scary to some, as goggle will give you warnings, but the real issues (other than being http instead of https) those issues have been weeded out a number of years ago. Some very cool and smart guys over there!

Thanks Again Folks!
Gene


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## Filipe Soares

Spanngitter said:


> Coming back to a Mini Major: Where do you draw the line for "Mini"? At 100W, at 50W, at 20W?
> If somebody would ask me for a Mini Major I would adopt the PreAmp of the Major and add a 2x EL84 Power Amp with an UL OT like the Edcor CXPP21
> This would then be a little, fairly clean 20W Poweramp...


I´d go with 2xKT88 at 80w


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## Gene Ballzz

Filipe Soares said:


> I´d go with 2xKT88 at 80w



While I appreciate your sentiment, any venue I play in is not likely to tolerate more than a 20 watt amp, and at least attenuating that a little bit!

Just Sayin'
Gene


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## Filipe Soares

Gene Ballzz said:


> While I appreciate your sentiment, any venue I play in is not likely to tolerate more than a 20 watt amp, and at least attenuating that a little bit!
> 
> Just Sayin'
> Gene



That´s my input because one the things I really value about majors is having KT88s inside. IMHO a major needs KT88s to be called a major, unfortunatelly 80w is loud AF and I totally agree with you. 

A "major" with 6V6 for sure will sound good, but it won´t be as far as a Superlead with 6V6 as a Major and a Superlead are (KT88s vs EL34s). 

BTW, I like KT88s so much that I have bought the 2203KK just "because KT88s".


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## Gene Ballzz

Filipe Soares said:


> That´s my input because one the things I really value about majors is having KT88s inside. IMHO a major needs KT88s to be called a major, unfortunatelly 80w is loud AF and I totally agree with you.
> 
> A "major" with 6V6 for sure will sound good, but it won´t be as far as a Superlead with 6V6 as a Major and a Superlead are (KT88s vs EL34s).
> 
> BTW, I like KT88s so much that I have bought the 2203KK just "because KT88s".



I get all that and I have been chasing the sound/tone of having BIG BALLZZ at useable sound pressure levels since the early '70s! There seem to be at least a few others who are finally catching the same fever!

What More Can I Say!
Gene


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## Filipe Soares

Gene Ballzz said:


> I get all that and I have been chasing the sound/tone of having BIG BALLZZ at useable sound pressure levels since the early '70s! There seem to be at least a few others who are finally catching the same fever!
> 
> What More Can I Say!
> Gene



you can get that off the shelf: SV20


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## danfrank

@ Gene:
Yeah, the 6V6S with 450-500 volts on the plates and 275-325 volts on the screens sounds like a good idea to experiment with.
The problem with the Balls Piglet is that the plate and screens of the KT66 are at nearly the same voltage. Output tubes run this way sound quite different than tubes that have the screens at around 60% of the plate voltage. A tube's plate curves will attest to this.
If you go this route, please report back and let us know what your observations are. Thanks.


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## Gene Ballzz

@danfrank 
Yes indeed sir! Lots of folks discount the 6V6, but it can be quite versatile, as long as tone/response is the goal instead of volume/wattage. What intrigues me most about the PIG design is the preamp section!  If I actually build one of these, I may put a couple completely passive send/return effects loops just after the each of the TREBLE & BASS pots, to use as test points. Might yield some insight?  My brain has even had the crazy thought of carrying the "bi-amp" concept all the through to two speakers, with separate single ended power sections and output transformers.  

Thanks For The Encouragement,
Gene


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