# Marshall Vs Friedman Owners



## Buzzard

Im a marshall guy through and through so Im happy to see friedman carrying on in the marshall vein.Im hoping to get opinions from owners and non owners alike but with experience with both. Am I missing something not owning a friedman? When I hear clips Im not blown away.They sound good but not $3500- good .Is it more of a FEEL thing .From what I understand some models ie. smallbox 50 , brown eye are jose type mods. Are they just another flavor of marshall that I can get with a pedal? To me they sound like a smoother more refined marshall that dosent quite cut through as well in the mix. Or maybe my ears are just getting old LOL. Maybe the friedman hysteria comes from the younger guys who didnt grow up with marshalls.


----------



## Ufoscorpion

I totally agree with your thoughts on Freidman amps , I've not heard one for real ( not even seen one in the flesh ) only on on YouTube etc. and yes they are Marshall like . But they do have a hint of ' blanket thrown over' about them , and are too ' smooth ' . I know lots of folk love them which is fine and Dave Freidman seems like a cool dude but bottom line is ' IT AINT A MARSHALL ' .


----------



## charveldan

Best of both worlds.


----------



## chiliphil1

To me, and take this how you want. Friedman amps are like chewy Marshalls. They are extremely saturated in comparison and much easier to play on. They are extremely responsive and pick up every little detail, it'll sustain for days and days. The thing about that though is that it can get old. The only Friedman experience I have is the SS head. That amp was just like an 800 with a super hot OD in front and a compressor in the loop. I can tell you that it is amazing and IS without a doubt worth the price, if you can swing it. 

If however, you're like me and can't get anywhere near that price range buy the BE-OD, that's my favorite pedal I've ever used, it just about nails that Friedman chewy tone and it definitely has the same sustain and everything. Run that into a Marshall front end and you'll get the best of both worlds, IMO. Now, don't get me wrong, if I could buy a real BE I would but I can't so this works for me.


----------



## bigbadorange

Ufoscorpion said:


> I totally agree with your thoughts on Freidman amps , I've not heard one for real ( not even seen one in the flesh ) only on on YouTube etc. and yes they are Marshall like . But they do have a hint of ' blanket thrown over' about them , and are too ' smooth ' . I know lots of folk love them which is fine and Dave Freidman seems like a cool dude but bottom line is ' IT AINT A MARSHALL ' .



just remember youtube videos compress, who knows what speaker was used, and how long they spent micing it and finding a sweet spot. That said, the freidmans are great. One has to really really try hard to get a bad tone, maybe thats why they are so popular. If I tweak my JVM enough, I can get damn close to my friedman be-100 tone, however, I like the JVM tone so I choose to own both heads. I could see in a music store someone looking at both heads, JVM410h for the first time is quite intimidating, vs friedman--turn it on and it sounds great.


----------



## thunderstruck507

I have played them a couple times in Guitar Center while trying out guitars if there wasn't a Marshall DSL in the room (or in the last instance the DSL was broken because someone left the speaker cable unplugged). If anything the last time I played one it just made me feel way better about finding my TSL for $400. 

The Friedman was really really good, but not quite as good as the price and it still won't do everything I want to do like my TSL does.

Different strokes.


----------



## EADGBE

The clips sound good on YouTube. But I've never played one or heard one in person. I'm real happy with my Marshalls.


----------



## liontato

The true test of any amp is how it sounds in a mix with bass and drums. Certain frequencies disappear and what is left above the surface has to be really good. It would be cool to A/B them live. I heard the SS live with SS actually playing it at Sweetwater. It was smooth but no live drums or bass. He played with a track. Bummer. His comment was that his Marshalls were pretty bright live and at volume. (The vintage plexis). The SS was a compromise to avoid some of those harsh highs. That brightness sounds great in a mix though. The SS could run a lower volume. I don't think it sounds better than a real plexi at volume though. A NMV amp is pretty special with the power amp distortion. The volume is the issue. The SS does sound great though. He had it loud in the auditorium and it wasn't harsh.


----------



## AlanH

@chiliphil1

I notice you have an RG1570 Prestige. What colour and have you kept it stock? I own one in suede red BTW.


----------



## Deep Purple fan

I have a dirty Shirley 40, the BE pedal and obviously I know Marshall real well. 

First off, the BE pedal is great but it's not a Friedman amp. I like it, its on my pedal board but I just want to be clear, it's no substitute for a FRIEDMAN amp.

The amp I have is superb. I wanted that sound. I couldn't get along with my 1974X AFTER REALLY TRYING. So I tried FRIEDMAN. Great build, great quality. Top notch. The tones go well beyond JTM45 on the DS4O. I get well into JCM800 territory. Takes pedals well. Great FX loop. Totally transparent. Price wise, and they are pricey, my DS40 is in the HW Marshall vintage line price range. For a hand wired shit hot USA made amp its tracking with the U.K. Handwired vintage MARSHALLS. I like it a lot better than the 1974X AND The 1962 Bluesbreaker I've owned and played. They are easier to dial in and frankly to just plug in and sound great.

Are they better than Marshall? I hate those kinds of comparisons but to me, in general, the answer is no. I've played some really good Marshalls. The JVM line and Silver Jub reissues are great amps. I have an old JCM800 combo that is that amp that is just insane. I could go on. The thing I like about Marshall is they don't try to be something else. As much as I like Friedman Amps, they fall into that "ME TOO'' category, like Splawn and others who try to do and expand on the Marshall thing. I'm glad I have my DS40, to satisfy my cravings for vintage British tones, but I'm so satisfied with the different Marshall amps I own now that I never look back. 

Another thread of course, but the brand I like just as much as Marshall is Engl.


----------



## chiliphil1

AlanH said:


> @chiliphil1
> 
> I notice you have an RG1570 Prestige. What colour and have you kept it stock? I own one in suede red BTW.



Mine is mirage blue with galaxy black hardware. Other than pickups it's all stock. She's got the crunch lab/liquifire combo in her. When I can swing it I'm going to add a brass block, locking tuners, and a tremol-no. Without doubt the best playing guitar I've ever had.


----------



## Buzzard

Thanks deep purple fan thats the type of feedback I was hoping for.Ironically or coincidentally, I know steve morses guitar tech pretty well,he has worked on my guitars as well. I believe steve still plays with deep purple, and his tech told me he uses a signature engl amp.


----------



## MarshallDog

I've owned many Marshall 1983 JCM 800 2204 , 1980 & 1979 JMP 2204, 1987 2558 Jubilee 2X12 combo, DSL 40C, etc. I now own a Friedman Small Box 50 combo. My 2 cents...the SB 50 is built to the highest quality you can get. The cab, the chassis, Tolex, circuitry, components blow anything Marshall makes today including their 3400.00 Astoria Custom which I have, no comparison in quality period. As for tone, dont believe what you hear on YouTube! No amp sounds what it does on Youtube. I find amps are darker on YouTube and have more cut in person. The tone of the SM 50 is stellar for a Marshall classic tone hands down, has great gain if needed, its easy to dial in and cleans up great with the guitar volume and tone and it is NOT darker at all it has plenty of cut. Is it worth 3000.00, IMO yes because that must be what it takes now days to get a quality amp these days. The Astoria Custom is great but the SM 50 blows it away and the quality right out of the box is not even close to the Friedman and it had a street price of 3400.00!!!

Bottom line is that its right in line with the old Marshall vintage amps for tone and it has two channels...nice. Is it better than the old Marshalls...well no but just as good and better in some areas (FX Loop, two channels, warranty, etc). It blows away any new production amp Marshall has made over the last 5-10 years for tone and quality. Sure some of the new production units have more channels BUT thats not what I need. If Marshall could or would make an amp like this in a combo, I would have bought a Marshall...maybe?!...quality still a concern. But they dont so IMO the Friedman is worth every beautiful penny I spent on it and I will most likely never sell it. The Astoria will go first if I have to sell an amp but hopefully I wont have to becasue I do like that amp for what it is also.


----------



## MarshallDog

chiliphil1 said:


> To me, and take this how you want. Friedman amps are like chewy Marshalls. They are extremely saturated in comparison and much easier to play on. They are extremely responsive and pick up every little detail, it'll sustain for days and days. The thing about that though is that it can get old. The only Friedman experience I have is the SS head. That amp was just like an 800 with a super hot OD in front and a compressor in the loop. I can tell you that it is amazing and IS without a doubt worth the price, if you can swing it.
> 
> If however, you're like me and can't get anywhere near that price range buy the BE-OD, that's my favorite pedal I've ever used, it just about nails that Friedman chewy tone and it definitely has the same sustain and everything. Run that into a Marshall front end and you'll get the best of both worlds, IMO. Now, don't get me wrong, if I could buy a real BE I would but I can't so this works for me.



Try the Small Box 50...


----------



## Buzzard

Marshalldog do you know how close the sb 50 is to a plexi circuit? I believe the sb 50 uses clipping diodes similar to a jose mod. Im in the market for a new plexi style amp but am on the fence about if I want a clone of a 68 12000 series or someones take on a plexi.If I go with some builders version of a plexi then Ill never know what a true plexi is like ,and yes I know theyre loud but I would get a 50w w ppimv


----------



## Buzzard

I HAVE tried a runt 50 at guitar center mainly just to try the dunlop echoplex delay.They wouldnt let me turn it up above speaking vol because theyre system was down and had to do transactions over the phone.I remember thinking this amp sounds GLORIOUS! Then I turned the pedal off and all the great tone and feel went away.With pedal =AMAZING TONE AND FEEL w/o pedal = NOTHING SPECIAL that I couldnt get w my other marshalls.But in all honesty I didnt get to spend much time with it AND I couldnt turn it up.


----------



## AlanH

chiliphil1 said:


> Mine is mirage blue with galaxy black hardware. Other than pickups it's all stock. She's got the crunch lab/liquifire combo in her. When I can swing it I'm going to add a brass block, locking tuners, and a tremol-no. Without doubt the best playing guitar I've ever had.



Totally agree on the playability. Mine is stock at the moment but I am tempted to get some Dimarzios in there. Click on the link below for photos:

http://s761.photobucket.com/user/AlanH_album/Ibanez RG1570 Suede Red/story


----------



## MarshallDog

Buzzard said:


> Marshalldog do you know how close the sb 50 is to a plexi circuit? I believe the sb 50 uses clipping diodes similar to a jose mod. Im in the market for a new plexi style amp but am on the fence about if I want a clone of a 68 12000 series or someones take on a plexi.If I go with some builders version of a plexi then Ill never know what a true plexi is like ,and yes I know theyre loud but I would get a 50w w ppimv



Unfortunately I dont know the circuit that well and dont have a schematic either. I will say my friend who is an amazing guitar player, been in major local bands his whole life and is a complete gear whore (has bought and sold more amps than probably all of us MFr's combined) turned me on to this amp because he loves the Plexi tone, among other well, said this is dead on Plexi tone in a smaller portable configuration with the added benefit of the higher gain which is like a modded Plexi.

However, if you have never owned an original Plexi then you should probably get one otherwise you will always be curious and not satisfied...


----------



## Coronado

I think Friedman makes a great amp. I've played the BE, Runt, Dirty Shirley, and the SS100 (Steve Stevens 100 watt). All great amps. What I remember is being able to turn the volume up quite high, with a decent amount of gain, and it was amazingly quiet. No hiss, no hum. The tone was pretty damn amazing. I fell in LOVE with those amps, mostly the BE and the DS. The key is, the tone isn't really that _significantly different_ enough for me to buy yet another amp that's along the same lines at my DSL 40, DSL100, JCM, JVM, and 1987. I found with a little EQ and perhaps a little noise gate (Decimator), I could come too close to justify the price and the need. 

On the other hand, what I DO look for is a difference in tone, such as Mesa and ENGL. I absolutely love the Marshall tone, and to my ears, the Friedman has that tone, and does it *very* well. To be honest, I really don't know if I would go out and buy one if it was in line with say the price of a JCM800? In my opinion, a Friedman is built about as good as they come. Cannot say a bad thing about them. I think what it comes down to is that the sound is perhaps just too close to what guys can get with their current Marshall, and I think its hard to justify the cost.


----------



## Buzzard

Well said coronado, that summed up how I feel exactly .That is why I have a few marshalls (the difference or character that shines through) between them . For instance the jcm 800 2205/2210 sounds much differant than the 2203/2204. Similar yes but differant. For example ,Im a fan of michael schenkers tone with the 2205 it has that cocked wah characteristic to it. I saw a video of him with the band in like a rehearsal garage and couldnt understand why his tone was so blah, that TONE that hes known for was gone. It wasnt until I got a good look at his amp that I realized he was using a jcm 2000 dsl 50! Not to take anything away from the dsl 50 ,theyre great Ive got one,again similar but differant character.


----------



## Ufoscorpion

I think the word to best describe Friedman amps is generic . Where all Marshall amps obviously sound like Marshall amps they all have their own flavour and place in rock history , Freidman Amps will always just be a Marshall sound alike . Jim Marshall's fundamental aim was to make great amps at an affordable price to average Joe , Dave Freidman is the opposite . Dave Freidman wants to make better Marshalls than Marshall no expense spared , that's just too lazy and ' unimaginative ' .


----------



## Ufoscorpion

charveldan said:


> Best of both worlds.


Take that to Big Bobs Marshall warehouse and he can get rid of those mods for you . Return it to the way Jim intended , lol .


----------



## charveldan

oh Hell no ...


----------



## chiliphil1

AlanH said:


> Totally agree on the playability. Mine is stock at the moment but I am tempted to get some Dimarzios in there. Click on the link below for photos:
> 
> http://s761.photobucket.com/user/AlanH_album/Ibanez RG1570 Suede Red/story



Nice! I like the color on that. I wish mine came with the case, I got a good deal because the case wasn't included but man, I wish I could have gotten that. It's in a Schecter case now and that's good enough, I guess. Mine had these pups when I got it, so I can't comment on any differences between stock but I have read about them and it's pretty much a universal opinion that the V7 and V8 are terrible. I don't say that as an insult but an incentive! Get yourself some Dimarzio's or Duncan's that thing will absolutely scream! Mine still has the S1 in the middle slot and it is so weak compared to the others, a very noticeable output and volume drop when I switch to it. If the stock buckers matched that pickup I can see what the people online are talking about. Come to think of it, I had an RG450 a few years ago and I installed a set of V7/V8 pups in there and I didn't like it. I chocked that up to the cheap guitar but from what I am reading, they just aren't that good.


----------



## SG~GUY

-I'm Marshall guy, ive owned alot of Marshall's & have had at least one Marshall since 1979,... Until 4-months ago, when I sold the Marshall amp that I've owned the longest, at over 10 years, Now, I own 2 amp's, niether says Marshall on it, but both have Marshall DNA, and at opposite ends of the $$$ scale, they're just a better Marshall.

-a -(one off custom modded)-FRIEDMAN JJ-, is what sent that last Marshall packing, and,... I no longer own the -FRIEDMAN JJ- suffered the same fate as the last Marshall, the one I had the longest, and in those 10 years, -THAT MARSHALL- 2203KK- sent a very, very impressive list of amp's down the road, they just lost to a better amp-(This was at the hieght of my amp flipping days, the body count was in the 15-20-ish range, everyone of them cost more than the $1800 I paid for the Marshall 2203KK, brand new, half cost at least $1000 more..

-Marshall lost, to a SUPERIOR MARSHALL-


----------



## MarshallDog

Ufoscorpion said:


> I think the word to best describe Friedman amps is generic . Where all Marshall amps obviously sound like Marshall amps they all have their own flavour and place in rock history , Freidman Amps will always just be a Marshall sound alike . Jim Marshall's fundamental aim was to make great amps at an affordable price to average Joe , Dave Freidman is the opposite . Dave Freidman wants to make better Marshalls than Marshall no expense spared , that's just too lazy and ' unimaginative ' .



But he's building a better mouse trap with better quality picking up where Marshall has dropped off and he has added his own tone to some amps and some channels where a Marshall needs a pedal to get to. Sounds to me you never owned or played one but yet you comment....ugh!


----------



## charveldan

Okay so what's Marshall building these days ... ?

yah ..... nothing.


----------



## mickeydg5

And that is why I like a Jubilee and a decent processor.
The cost is less and the cosmos is the limits.


----------



## Deep Purple fan

I'm not going to knock Friedman Amps. Great amps no doubt. Whether they are better than high end Marshalls is purely subjective but anyone who has played a Friedman recently can't be anything but impressed. But to claim Marshall isn't building anything these days is total and complete bullshit. I see that in this forum all the time by some but it is totally wrong.

Look at marshallamps.com and look at their online catalog. It's fair to criticize Marshall for marketing , rollouts, customer support and sales support but depth of product line.... no fking way.

Today, if I wanted, I could order vintage reissue amps like 1959 SLP, 1987X, JTM45, 1962BB, 1974X, and JCM800 2203. I could order modern hand wired updates, priced similar to Friedman, in the Astoria range. I could go anther route and go JVM Series or yet another route and go Silver Jub. Both great lines. They make affordable SS amps as well. Acoustics, that too. Affordable great sounding tube amps?......a PINK TACO is 3x the cost of DSL15H yet in reality the amps do the same thing.

Although Marshall is an iconic brand name, it's not some huge multinational corporation. It's much smaller than most think and as an iconic brand, it's limited in what it can do. It could build an off shore affordable low watt JCM800 style amp....wait it did that with SL5.....I saw countless guys in this forum bitching about the price or it's made in Asia. I could make similar arguments about JVM - too loud, too much gain, too complicated, etc when in reality it's an easyb to use versatile amp offering a very wide pallet of Marshall tones for a grand less than BE100.

I get it, we'd all love Marshall to roll out new product at every NAMM. But let's be honest, beyond their limited resources to constantly roll out product and stay in business, the folks in this forum would bitch the loudest if it didn't look, smell or sound like Marshall -- too loud, too Asian, too expensive, too different, not different enough, too much gain, not enough gain - where did I hear that before. If you can't look at the current Marshall offerings and see some shit hot amps....Marshall may not be your brand.


----------



## MarshallDog

Deep Purple fan said:


> I'm not going to knock Friedman Amps. Great amps no doubt. Whether they are better than high end Marshalls is purely subjective but anyone who has played a Friedman recently can't be anything but impressed. But to claim Marshall isn't building anything these days is total and complete bullshit. I see that in this forum all the time by some but it is totally wrong.
> 
> Look at marshallamps.com and look at their online catalog. It's fair to criticize Marshall for marketing , rollouts, customer support and sales support but depth of product line.... no fking way.
> 
> Today, if I wanted, I could order vintage reissue amps like 1959 SLP, 1987X, JTM45, 1962BB, 1974X, and JCM800 2203. I could order modern hand wired updates, priced similar to Friedman, in the Astoria range. I could go anther route and go JVM Series or yet another route and go Silver Jub. Both great lines. They make affordable SS amps as well. Acoustics, that too. Affordable great sounding tube amps?......a PINK TACO is 3x the cost of DSL15H yet in reality the amps do the same thing.
> 
> Although Marshall is an iconic brand name, it's not some huge multinational corporation. It's much smaller than most think and as an iconic brand, it's limited in what it can do. It could build an off shore affordable low watt JCM800 style amp....wait it did that with SL5.....I saw countless guys in this forum bitching about the price or it's made in Asia. I could make similar arguments about JVM - too loud, too much gain, too complicated, etc when in reality it's an easyb to use versatile amp offering a very wide pallet of Marshall tones for a grand less than BE100.
> 
> I get it, we'd all love Marshall to roll out new product at every NAMM. But let's be honest, beyond their limited resources to constantly roll out product and stay in business, the folks in this forum would bitch the loudest if it didn't look, smell or sound like Marshall -- too loud, too Asian, too expensive, too different, not different enough, too much gain, not enough gain - where did I hear that before. If you can't look at the current Marshall offerings and see some shit hot amps....Marshall may not be your brand.



My biggest complaint about Marshall is their quality even with their hand wired made in England amps. Although good, not as good as the similar boutique amps at least with my experience. And, why cant they offer more of their reissue amps in 1 and 2x12 combo? Not everyone wants to lug around a speaker cab and amp head these days. Only the Jubilee offers it but Im no fan of Jubilee at all. Had they done this I may have bought one from them and not my Friedman but boy am I glad I did buy the Friedman.


----------



## SG~GUY

-besides re-issues I haven't heard a "GOOD-MARSHALL" in quite awhile-(ASTORIA? PLEEEZE)-most of, if not all -BETTER MARSHALL'S- have a lot less resources, some are a 2 man outfit, how do they get it done? Marshall wont deliver what we want, and its no secret, people wanted a high gain JMP/JCM since the early 80's- what did Marshall give us instead. 900's

-i will more than likely own another Marshall sooner than later, but it wont be even close to NEW!! probably a 70's or 80's JMP/JCM, and probably modded, I don't know about anyone else, but I have grown tired of the endless battle with every Marshall I've owned, always doing everything I could to DARKEN & ADD GIRTH-(GAIN used to be on this list, but I refuse to own any amp that require's -PEDAL-POWER- ever again)-Adding anything to the signal chain subtracts from something somewhere, it makes everything is a trade off, which becomes a balancing act


----------



## Buzzard

I too felt like I shouldnt have to use pedals to get my sound in the 80s with my 2 1983 jcm 800 2204 heads,so I got a mesa mkiii head and cab. But you know ,now that Im older and wiser I realize that its in no way a lesser or inferior way to get your sound .In fact theyre are many benefits to the use of pedals Im(assuming were talking overd /dist) yes they can add noise but so can multiple gain stage amps and modified ones. Look at all the iconic tones that were created with a marshall and pedals. I dont think anyone would say eric johnsons sound on the album tones is not one of the best ever. And hes more ocd as anyone about his signal chain.We could go on all day about iconic marshall/pedal combos ( jimi hendrix etc etc) I totally get where sg=guy is coming from sometimes an amp with gain already integrated into the amp just works, also a MAJOR thing to consider is what TYPE of music you play.


----------



## chuckharmonjr

One of my good friends has a Freidman combo..not sure what model. Damn fine sounding amp, but to be honest...my Joey-mod DSL with a pedal blows it clean outta the water and Tommy admits it.


----------



## Buzzard

I also get where ufoscorpion guy is coming from when he described friedmans as generic ,case in point.Someone posted a video on the other amps section of akira takasaki on using his new friedman be 100 amps .The first thing I noticed was that his distinct modified marshall tone was gone and it sounded very generic and his characteristic tone was gone. By the way the jvm 4-10 head nails his early 80s tone on od-1 channel (orange I believe) which ironically is what he WAS using before the be 100.


----------



## anitoli

I think people in general would be less disappointed with their amps if they approached the amp not from the "what i want it to do" idea but rather "what does the amp want to do" idea. Once you can appreciate what the amp want's then most amps turn out to be pretty good.


----------



## Deep Purple fan

MarshallDog said:


> My biggest complaint about Marshall is their quality even with their hand wired made in England amps. Although good, not as good as the similar boutique amps at least with my experience. And, why cant they offer more of their reissue amps in 1 and 2x12 combo? Not everyone wants to lug around a speaker cab and amp head these days. Only the Jubilee offers it but Im no fan of Jubilee at all. Had they done this I may have bought one from them and not my Friedman but boy am I glad I did buy the Friedman.



It's totally fair to question the quality of expensive
guitars/amps. I agree on that. I love my Gibson guitars but I've had bad luck getting something without some kind of issue from them. I've had better luck with Marshall. On your second point, it is wicked expensive to roll out product. I work for a very large multinational ($18 billion annual sales) electronics company so I deal with this frequently. Even updating products is pricey. Trust me, even reissuing and producing vintage amp designs today at current standards is very expensive. Its not simply dusting off old plans. My experience is with a high tech company but I think some or all of these challenges transfer to a much smaller resource constrained company like Marshall. 

My main point though, if we all like like Marshall amps and they come out with good products in the future give it a chance. JVM is another good example. I've seen not a few, but many scathing reviews. Many from people who never played one or completely were clueless on how to EQ it. I happen to know that amp really well so I know what it can do and quite frankly it can do a lot really well. I think too many marshall specific buyers expect to plug in and sound like young, page, slash, etc and when they don't they blame the amp.


----------



## Wolvieberzerker

Marshall has gone the way of Gibson. Nothing but a name now. The people who build the copies are listening to the customers and they do it better.


----------



## johan.b

Marshall unike many other amps, demand to be part of your instrument. You play the amp too, as much as you play your guitar. If you play your amp well. It'll reward you. If you expect it to deliver even when you don't yourself, expect to be disappointed ...People used to modelers, and high gain boxes usually don't get this...with all the options out there, chanses are pretty big your favorite player has at least one Marshall in his arsenal still..
J


----------



## Ufoscorpion

The price of a new Friedman be 100 in England is $ 4300 on average ,which is freaking crazy on so many counts . I can't even be bothered to explain why it's madness to those who think it's ok to spend so much on their quest for ???? Don't give me the components are so much better and it will be more reliable and last longer shit , the amp in my 4104 is 34 years old and all original and sounds killer and will more than likely last another 34 years plus by which time I will be 87 anyway (if still alive ) . Don't get me wrong I'm not slagging Friedman coz he obviously makes great amps but come on guys smell the coffee .


----------



## Ufoscorpion

Also , while I'm on a rant and someone dragged Gibson in to the debate . Yes they come up with new ideas a lot of which are pretty crazy but why do people slag them off so much for it ? Nobody else is trying anything new or different , everyone else is just trying to make a better Gibson than Gibson . Kind of shows how our fucked up minds work when you think about it .


----------



## Ufoscorpion

Disrespect Marshall as much as you like , they're not perfect but they still make something for everybody . Which Friedman amp as a 14 year old are you gonna buy with your paper round money ? Soldano was the thing a few years ago like Friedman is now , what's happened there ?


----------



## SG~GUY

-I like the GIBSON & MARSHALL comparison-
-here's my theory,.. well, actually i stole it.... -(WHEN YOUR THE KING,... HEAVY IS THE CROWN)- both have been the gold standard, since the very beginnig of ROCK- n -ROLL-(Gibson even before Rock music)- there name's are legenday, &-(what's more -ICONIC- than a Gibson Les Paul, hung low, plugged into a mountain of MARSHALL STACK'S)-but! the KINGS CROWN, is also a bullseye, & everyone wants it, and when, not if -(SOMEWHERE ALONG THE LINE THEY SLIPPED OFF TRACK,.... ONE STEP UP & TWO STEPS BACK)-(a fresh sack-o-cats, goes to the first one to say who the singer is & the name of the song)-when the enemy see's weakness, its brutal.. suddenly you have uncountable enemies, enemies you never new you had, and like blood in the water, it add's to the hungry sharks feeding frenzy, seems everybody celebrate's your fall, old friends kick you when your down. NOBODY! will help you up!! to get you back on your feet-(unless they get compensation)-


----------



## charveldan

Ufoscorpion said:


> Disrespect Marshall as much as you like , they're not perfect but they still make something for everybody . Which Friedman amp as a 14 year old are you gonna buy with your paper round money ? Soldano was the thing a few years ago like Friedman is now , what's happened there ?


Mike Soldano started his company in the early 80's and is doing fine. Friedman started RACKSYSTEMS modding amps & building Custom Rack Rigs to the Stars in 1993 [24 years ago]. Before that Dave was partners with Bruce Egnater for many years. Dave builds what people want. Marshall builds what Marshall wants. There is CLEARLY A DIFFERENCE.

Dave is a Leader in the Industry and makes all his own shit in house made in the USA.
Feel free to buy whatever you want but don't insult an American Success story.


----------



## Söulcaster

I don't like the buzzing bee saturation of the Friedman's.


----------



## Deep Purple fan

Wolvieberzerker said:


> Marshall has gone the way of Gibson. Nothing but a name now. The people who build the copies are listening to the customers and they do it better.



Im not trying to defend Marshall but I think the opposite is true. Go online and look at their catalog. Most of their major offerings pay homage to the past. The vintage line, the silver Jub and yes, even AStoria, DSL and JVM. Now compare that fact to the comments you read here....plexi plexi plexi......2204, 2203...it goes on and on. Everything is compared to the legacy. How many times have you read here a guy trying to get his DSL40 to sound like a plexi, or trashing of JVM because the crunch channel red mode did not sound exactly like how he remembered his old JCM800 sounded in 1985.

The 2555X 100W Silver JUB is a great example. For years Marshall was pressed to release a reissue. When they did they were $1000 less than a Friedman Small Box yet I recall when it was released the Cork Sniffers came out in droves to make sure everyone knew that it was not the same circuit as the original which of course based on their expert opinion sounds nothing like the reissue. I preordered one and even got a 15% discount from MF and that is an amp I plugged into and got killer tones in 5 minutes or less.

Marshall knows it's risky for them to deviate from their brand image. They definitely know what their core customers want and they've flopped several times when the deviate. Marshall is trapped by their legacy.

A company like Friedman has more wiggle room than Marshall as their sound is a Marshall hybrid tone. Any comparison against legacy products would be against Marshall and not FRIEDMAN. They outright rip off marshalls look on many of their offerings. Just imagine the outrage if Marshall tweaked an Engl circuit just enough not to get sued, then built the amp box that looks the same and threw a Marshall label on it in same material and font as Engl.

I would love to see Marshall come up with something new. I'd love to see some low watt modern takes on a JMP or 800 but I'm sure Marshall has doubts they could make money releasing one. In the last 10 years Marshall has released JVM, JVMHJS, Astoria, DSL, CLASS 5, HAZE, SL5, SILVER JUB REISSUES, some VINTAGE REISSUES, MG, CODE, and an entire range of 50th anniversary amps. I'm sure there were more. Did you buy any of these or was your trusty 1977 JMP good enough?


----------



## MarshallDog

Söulcaster said:


> I don't like the buzzing bee saturation of the Friedman's.



Try a Small Box 50, its Plexi tone no "buzzing bee" tone there as you describe it, nope...none!


----------



## Derek S

Definitely no buzz, fuzz or beehive gain on the SmallBox as well as zero blanket over the speaker vibe either (from personal/owner experience).


----------



## chiliphil1

Deep Purple fan said:


> Im not trying to defend Marshall but I think the opposite is true. Go online and look at their catalog. Most of their major offerings pay homage to the past. The vintage line, the silver Jub and yes, even AStoria, DSL and JVM. Now compare that fact to the comments you read here....plexi plexi plexi......2204, 2203...it goes on and on. Everything is compared to the legacy. How many times have you read here a guy trying to get his DSL40 to sound like a plexi, or trashing of JVM because the crunch channel red mode did not sound exactly like how he remembered his old JCM800 sounded in 1985.
> 
> The 2555X 100W Silver JUB is a great example. For years Marshall was pressed to release a reissue. When they did they were $1000 less than a Friedman Small Box yet I recall when it was released the Cork Sniffers came out in droves to make sure everyone knew that it was not the same circuit as the original which of course based on their expert opinion sounds nothing like the reissue. I preordered one and even got a 15% discount from MF and that is an amp I plugged into and got killer tones in 5 minutes or less.
> 
> Marshall knows it's risky for them to deviate from their brand image. They definitely know what their core customers want and they've flopped several times when the deviate. Marshall is trapped by their legacy.
> 
> A company like Friedman has more wiggle room than Marshall as their sound is a Marshall hybrid tone. Any comparison against legacy products would be against Marshall and not FRIEDMAN. They outright rip off marshalls look on many of their offerings. Just imagine the outrage if Marshall tweaked an Engl circuit just enough not to get sued, then built the amp box that looks the same and threw a Marshall label on it in same material and font as Engl.
> 
> I would love to see Marshall come up with something new. I'd love to see some low watt modern takes on a JMP or 800 but I'm sure Marshall has doubts they could make money releasing one. In the last 10 years Marshall has released JVM, JVMHJS, Astoria, DSL, CLASS 5, HAZE, SL5, SILVER JUB REISSUES, some VINTAGE REISSUES, MG, CODE, and an entire range of 50th anniversary amps. I'm sure there were more. Did you buy any of these or was your trusty 1977 JMP good enough?



You sir, have hit pervebial nail on the head. Precisely like the 2015 fiasco at Gibson people do not want a new mousetrap. Yet, they will tell you that they do. I was one of the rare few who put my money down and bought one and I will tell you that it was the finest non custom shop guitar I have ever played. I sold it for preference reasons because I didn't like the feel but that was the only reason, the quality was better than anything Gibson has made in years. The thing is though, people bash them constantly, it was a train of nothing but whining for the whole year and to this day everyone will tell you that those are the "worst" Gibsons ever made. The fact that they didn't own one is irrelevant, they saw online that there are new features so, they're junk and they don't even have to touch one to find out. 

I think a lot of the reason that Marshall flops it's new products is because they're always late to the party. The rack systems they made were right at the end of the rack era, the code came 15 years after line6 put modeling amps on the market and just so happened to come as an entry level rig when pro modeling systems came into existence. Marshall had a chance I think with the code. If they had put a little more effort into the quality of the profiles and made a wider line including floor units and rack units they could have had a hit, easily. 

The dsl line was a stoke of genius from them however, the 40 is the best selling amp in the world, that's awesome. It should show them what they need to do. An affordable amp with good quality and classic tone. It doesn't have the spaceship features of the jvm but isn't as simple as a plexi, it falls right in the middle and gives working musicians what they need with no BS. Marshall have a chance to own the market, they really do but they need to regroup, as much as I hate to say it, no one wants 100 watt amps anymore, at least 90% of people don't anyway. That's why the H&K Meister line was such a hit, small, light, great tone. Orange has small amps, black star, Friedman, etc. Marshall did jump in with the dsl15 and the 2525 which is awesome, but they missed the mark in that the dsl doesn't have all of the features people want and the jube is pricey. In fact, outside of Friedman I think it's the most expensive small amp on the market. 

Now, if it were me and I were running Marshall I would listed to the customers, to places like this. I would make it an absolute priority to put out mini versions of the 1959 and 2203, then I would make a Friedman like hot rod amp with all of the bells and whistles, the switches that modify the circuit, etc. They have the means they just don't do it. Also, I would bring a jvm replacement to the market that did a better job of recreating the classic tones, borrow some tech from other companies and make it look like a classic amp. Then slam every feature that I could into it. Direct recording ability, power reduction, etc. Marshall can easily climb back to the top, I think it's just up to them at this point, whether they choose to or not.


----------



## rick16v

Ufoscorpion said:


> *I've not heard one for real ( not even seen one in the flesh *) .... they do have a hint of ' blanket thrown over' about them .....I think the word to best describe Friedman amps is generic .





The cranked Friedman I played easily stood up to a cranked Jube reissue. It was an awesome amp that felt great. Excellent all round, not generic to my ears.


----------



## EndGame00

When I had a chance to play a SB-50, to me, it sounded like a Marshall on steroids... the BE is like a Marshall who's been dipping on HGH...Compare Friedman to let's say a Splawn Competition (a friend of mine finally got one), the SB blows it away... The Splawn has this "metallic" sounding on the upper freqency.that didn't sound pleasing to me...


----------



## EndGame00

Ufoscorpion said:


> Disrespect Marshall as much as you like , they're not perfect but they still make something for everybody . Which Friedman amp as a 14 year old are you gonna buy with your paper round money ? Soldano was the thing a few years ago like Friedman is now , what's happened there ?


 Friedman made amps with gigging musicians in mind, not bedroom players...

Marshall is no longer The Marshall we know....

Do you think the Astoria can go toe-to-toe with George Metropoulos 12000 Series? Or against the Germino Masonette?

No....


----------



## TubeStack

charveldan said:


> Dave is a Leader in the Industry and makes all his own shit in house made in the USA.



Aren't Friedman's made in a generic "amp farm," ie. a third-party production line that makes them along with a few other brands?


----------



## anitoli

TubeStack said:


> Aren't Friedman's made in a generic "amp farm," ie. a third-party production line that makes them along with a few other brands?



The crystal ball predicts "shit storm"!


----------



## Buzzard

........and, were off!


----------



## Ufoscorpion

i can't believe that someone would suggest Marshall don't build what people want compared to a ' boutique ' amp building company that's been around ( making amps) for five minutes . I think Marshall do lack some direction at the moment they don't seem too sure what to do next and possibly feel its damned if you do damned if you don't when it comes to putting out new gear . Someone will give them a good shake soon and they will be back with a vengeance .


----------



## charveldan

TubeStack said:


> Aren't Friedman's made in a generic "amp farm," ie. a third-party production line that makes them along with a few other brands?


No they're made in Vietnam where the average monthly income of a worker is $130 bucks a month.

Oh wait thats Marshall ...


----------



## TubeStack

charveldan said:


> No they're made in Vietnam where the average monthly income of a worker is $130 bucks a month.
> 
> Oh wait thats Marshall ...





But seriously, he doesn't "make all his own shit in house," he has a separate company build them, that also makes Egnater, Morgan, Wampler, and other amps.


----------



## charveldan

Boutique Amps makes that yes and Dave personally signs off & final inspects [every] amp himself personally before it leaves.

Its all under one roof, all the inventory, all the workers.
Dave does his own CADD/Graphic designs in house, if he wants a new pedal he makes it there, he makes his own cabs.

He doesn't outsource his designs to Mainland China or anywhere else.

It would be impossible for him to meet demand by himself alone.


----------



## Deep Purple fan

EndGame00 said:


> When I had a chance to play a SB-50, to me, it sounded like a Marshall on steroids... the BE is like a Marshall who's been dipping on HGH...Compare Friedman to let's say a Splawn Competition (a friend of mine finally got one), the SB blows it away... The Splawn has this "metallic" sounding on the upper freqency.that didn't sound pleasing to me...



I had a splawn competition 50. Same thing. I thought it was my amp. Tried everything to include tube swaps. I like my DIRTY SHIRLEY a lot more.


----------



## MarshallDog

TubeStack said:


> Aren't Friedman's made in a generic "amp farm," ie. a third-party production line that makes them along with a few other brands?



Why yes they are and good man Dave inspects, plays and signs everyone of them. The amps are perfect and the build quality is not to be matched even by my 3400.00 Mashall Astoria Custom. The Astoria is a great amp dont get me wrong and is built well but no comparison to the Friedman SM 50! Maybe Marshall should use the same "amp farm" as you call them


----------



## chiliphil1

TubeStack said:


> Aren't Friedman's made in a generic "amp farm," ie. a third-party production line that makes them along with a few other brands?



I did not know that. No matter though, they're still hand wired amps of the highest quality. Look at ibanez prestige guitars, made by fugigen not ibanez but they'll hang with anything out there. EVH guitars are made by fender and get huge praise. I don't think that farming things out is inherently bad, as long as the manufacturer is top notch. Not to mention, as everyone had said Dave himself does the final check on ALL amps bearing his name.


----------



## EndGame00

Ufoscorpion said:


> i can't believe that someone would suggest Marshall don't build what people want compared to a ' boutique ' amp building company that's been around ( making amps) for five minutes . I think Marshall do lack some direction at the moment they don't seem too sure what to do next and possibly feel its damned if you do damned if you don't when it comes to putting out new gear . Someone will give them a good shake soon and they will be back with a vengeance .



The fact of the matter Milton Keynes doesn't know what they're doing... Astoria and The Code both flopped... They also ignore the market for lower watt Plexi-ish and JCM/JMP, so the smaller manufacturers offer those products to consumers...

Remember there was a talk of Marshall releasing a lower watt Satriani JVM? That did not pan out..


----------



## FTMF

.


----------



## FTMF

.


----------



## charveldan

Sounds Awesome man .... im partial to 1988' MIJ Charvels the Fusion series, got my first in 88'.


----------



## FTMF

.


----------



## Ufoscorpion

Hey , I would love to get my hands on a Friedman and try for myself , the problem is that they're as rare as hens teeth in the uk . There aren't any dealers local to me that I could visit to try one out . The price is also very off putting, is it going to be x2 better than my Astoria custom ? Also do I need another ' Marshall ' type amp , keeping in mind I also have a 2554 and 4104 . I've actually been looking at used boogies to get something a bit different to my Marshall's. DC-5's are looking favourite at the moment if anyone has any views on them please chime in .


----------



## solarburn

Friedman smeidman. I rip whatever I play. The amp does not make the player. OR15 into to a 412 loaded with G12M's using a Tele loaded with SD'S.


----------



## solarburn

In case I wasn't clear...I came. It wasn't because I rubbed my dinkus over a Friedman amp. Some of you need to spend money to get laid. I get it. Jus glad I can play the panties off a girl who is ready to bounce...because I tickled that g spot. 

Friedman's still in junior high. My brown eye says so.


----------



## charveldan

You sound like a sex offender man ...


----------



## solarburn

charveldan said:


> You sound like a sex offender man ...



You and Rick Jr will get past the wrinkled lip kissing stage. Once you do that I'll treat you to some chicks that won't laugh at you....they promised.


----------



## solarburn

Ufoscorpion said:


> Hey , I would love to get my hands on a Friedman and try for myself , the problem is that they're as rare as hens teeth in the uk . There aren't any dealers local to me that I could visit to try one out . The price is also very off putting, is it going to be x2 better than my Astoria custom ? Also do I need another ' Marshall ' type amp , keeping in mind I also have a 2554 and 4104 . I've actually been looking at used boogies to get something a bit different to my Marshall's. DC-5's are looking favourite at the moment if anyone has any views on them please chime in .



Don't fall into this Friedman circle jerk. Most of these jerkoffs buy these amps out of status. Fucking shameful.

You and me are buds. Don't do it. I can put cheaper amps against these players and expose tone and playing. However if you rip and like that juvenile builder tone wise I'll step aside.


----------



## chiliphil1

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Don't fall into this Friedman circle jerk. Most of these jerkoffs buy these amps out of status. Fucking shameful.
> 
> You and me are buds. Don't do it. I can put cheaper amps against these players and expose tone and playing. However if you rip and like that juvenile builder tone wise I'll step aside.



You know what I like about the Friedmans? Hand wired. I know, I know, cork sniffer BUT I have an appreciation for craftsmanship and I think it's cool that someone sits there and builds a Friedman amp from top to bottom, it's not a bunch of PCB's plugged into each other. That being said, that Orange is just about bad ass innit?


----------



## Rokinroller

I think I'd go CERIATONE and pref a build kit myself .... unless a pre-built one came up for grabs in my local classifieds . A Chupacabra , yes !


----------



## solarburn

chiliphil1 said:


> You know what I like about the Friedmans? Hand wired. I know, I know, cork sniffer BUT I have an appreciation for craftsmanship and I think it's cool that someone sits there and builds a Friedman amp from top to bottom, it's not a bunch of PCB's plugged into each other. That being said, that Orange is just about bad ass innit?



I here you bud. My Joey 2203 build makes builders like Friedman cum prematurely cause he is still strokenenoff. For fucks sake I don't even need my best amp to poot this tool on the shelf. If you think otherwise more power to you.

However if you can muster his amp in play I'd be glad to show you what a sham a neutered Marshall is.


----------



## Rokinroller

Solarburn can burn with or without tanning lotion ! Great stuff bro .


----------



## solarburn

charveldan said:


> You sound like a sex offender man ...





charveldan said:


> You sound like a sex offender man ...



You sound like me a dude that practices s


Rokinroller said:


> Solarburn can burn with or without tanning lotion ! Great stuff bro .



Fuck bro you can out play these prima Dona's that think a great circuit makes me.

However you can rip these enamored players a new one. And their retorts suck as much as their rhetoric about fanciful amps that cost $3500.


----------



## MarshallDog

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Don't fall into this Friedman circle jerk. Most of these jerkoffs buy these amps out of status. Fucking shameful.
> 
> You and me are buds. Don't do it. I can put cheaper amps against these players and expose tone and playing. However if you rip and like that juvenile builder tone wise I'll step aside.



Well I didnt buy mine for a status symbol at all. Speaking only in reference to the Small Box 1x12 combo because thats where my experience is with Friedman, I bought this amp because of quality, simple features unmatched tone, small combo package and to be honest, because Marshall makes nothing off the shelf that matches the tone of this amp and package period. If they did I might have bought one. My DSL 40C has a nice tone now after adding a Creamback, changing the value of C19, adding a choke and modding the gain on channel 2 so it doesnt sound like a chain saw and its quality is questionable more like something you would find in Friedmans dumpster. Its all about what tone and quality one wants and then what the wallet can afford. Ill tell you right now if you take two equal players or the same player and they play the Small Box 50 and then almost any new production Marshall out there, they will fall in love with the Friedman. But if one wants a Vox, Mesa or Fender tone thats a different story. This amp is a Plexi and a modded Plexi type of tone.


----------



## solarburn

MarshallDog said:


> Well I didnt buy mine for a status symbol at all. Speaking only in reference to the Small Box 1x12 combo because thats where my experience is with Friedman, I bought this amp because of quality, simple features unmatched tone, small combo package and to be honest, because Marshall makes nothing off the shelf that matches the tone of this amp and package period. If they did I might have bought one. My DSL 40C has a nice tone now after adding a Creamback, changing the value of C19, adding a choke and modding the gain on channel 2 so it doesnt sound like a chain saw and its quality is questionable more like something you would find in Friedmans dumpster. Its all about what tone and quality one wants and then what the wallet can afford. Ill tell you right now if you take two equal players or the same player and they play the Small Box 50 and then almost any new production Marshall out there, they will fall in love with the Friedman. But if one wants a Vox, Mesa or Fender tone thats a different story. This amp is a Plexi and a modded Plexi type of tone.



Don't come on my thread hoping your small box is the acceptiion. Cause its the best Friedman I like. However the price sux.


----------



## solarburn

MarshallDog said:


> Well I didnt buy mine for a status symbol at all. Speaking only in reference to the Small Box 1x12 combo because thats where my experience is with Friedman, I bought this amp because of quality, simple features unmatched tone, small combo package and to be honest, because Marshall makes nothing off the shelf that matches the tone of this amp and package period. If they did I might have bought one. My DSL 40C has a nice tone now after adding a Creamback, changing the value of C19, adding a choke and modding the gain on channel 2 so it doesnt sound like a chain saw and its quality is questionable more like something you would find in Friedmans dumpster. Its all about what tone and quality one wants and then what the wallet can afford. Ill tell you right now if you take two equal players or the same player and they play the Small Box 50 and then almost any new production Marshall out there, they will fall in love with the Friedman. But if one wants a Vox, Mesa or Fender tone thats a different story. This amp is a Plexi and a modded Plexi type of tone.



Hahaha! You know I luv ya. Put a clip up. You know I luv ya! But...I will put your Small Box against my DSL40...not yours. And I will rip it a new one.

I have a 68 plexi. We'll sort it out.


----------



## MarshallDog

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Hahaha! You know I luv ya. Put a clip up. You know I luv ya! But...I will put your Small Box against my DSL40...not yours. And I will rip it a new one.
> 
> I have a 68 plexi. We'll sort it out.



Well, I'm not as good as player as you are, I started later in life a while after college but I'm getting there. 

Too bad we dont live closer because I'd bring it over and you could play through both and I would bet 1K that you would love it more than the DSL 40C but thats tough because you may actually like the slightly more modern sound of the DSL 40C over the awesome Plexi tone of the SB 50. The DSL has its own tone while Channel one on the SB 50 has a great vintage Plexi tone. Then click over to channel 2 and look out...all the way from lower gain to nice rich none ear piercing buzz saw gain!!! 

The price sucks buts its in line with any high quality hand wired amp...even Marshalls hand wired amps are in the same price range.


----------



## solarburn

2


MarshallDog said:


> Well, I'm not as good as player as you are, I started later in life a while after college but I'm getting there.
> 
> Too bad we dont live closer because I'd bring it over and you could play through both and I would bet 1K that you would love it more than the DSL 40C but thats tough because you may actually like the slightly more modern sound of the DSL 40C over the awesome Plexi tone of the SB 50. The DSL has its own tone while Channel one on the SB 50 has a great vintage Plexi tone. Then click over to channel 2 and look out...all the way from lower gain to nice rich none ear piercing buzz saw gain!!!
> 
> The price sucks buts its in line with any high quality hand wired amp...even Marshalls hand wired amps are in the same price range.



The smallbox sounds tits. Nipples hard.


----------



## Buzzard

Your thread?


----------



## SonVolt

Buzzard said:


> Your thread?


----------



## Rokinroller

Some hot stuff going on here . I dig the excitement !


----------



## MarshallDog

Buzzard said:


> Your thread?



Yeah, hes cool!!!!






Hes my "Full Of Himself" Bro and hes funny as all phuck also!!!!


----------



## SonVolt

Up until today I thought Solarburn and Solodallas were the same person.


----------



## FTMF

.


----------



## MarshallDog

mantrasky said:


> "Are Orange Amps Good?"
> 
> Their Awesome!




No...only Marshall DSL 40Cs are good!!


----------



## FTMF

.


----------



## solarburn

MarshallDog said:


> No...only Marshall DSL 40Cs are good!!



LMAO!

I'm stoked you handle my stoopee well my Brother. Now send me your Friedman so I can play that badassery!

I know Dan won't share with the other kids in the sandbox...


----------



## solarburn

.


----------



## solarburn

MarshallDog said:


> Well, I'm not as good as player as you are, I started later in life a while after college but I'm getting there.
> 
> Too bad we dont live closer because I'd bring it over and you could play through both and I would bet 1K that you would love it more than the DSL 40C but thats tough because you may actually like the slightly more modern sound of the DSL 40C over the awesome Plexi tone of the SB 50. The DSL has its own tone while Channel one on the SB 50 has a great vintage Plexi tone. Then click over to channel 2 and look out...all the way from lower gain to nice rich none ear piercing buzz saw gain!!!
> 
> The price sucks buts its in line with any high quality hand wired amp...even Marshalls hand wired amps are in the same price range.



Oh and fuck that noise about me playing. I'm sloppy Joe and that's that. Seriously it's just joy to be able to play at all.

If we were neighbors we wouldn't have any other neighbors. They'd tuck tail and run.


----------



## FTMF

.


----------



## solarburn

mantrasky said:


> Solarburn, you sound "Great" on guitar!!!
> 
> \../



I just recently played one of your clips. Two days ago I think? I forget what amp you were using but holy smokes man...nice chops!

I always try to get guys to do sound clips so I can also hear what they write. Sometimes I go obnoxiously about it specially when I've had a couple but even then I have never put anyone's playing ability down. I just want to hear how amps sound. Perfection be dammed.

However I know I'm a sloppy MF and I'm ok with that.LOL

Thanks for the cool comment!


----------



## FTMF

.


----------



## solarburn

mantrasky said:


> Thank you so much Solar!!! I believe it might have been this one? I was using my BE100 (Please don't kill me)  and my Charvel (Bare Knuckle "Holy Diver" set and Trilogy Suite)
> 
> If you want to trip a little, here's me back in 1980 Using one of my Marshall's Modified by Jose Arrendondo and a White Les Paul Custom with Duncan Distortion in the bridge and a Duncan '59 in the neck position. It's just a minute long guitar solo, back in the day with "Ampex 2" Reel tape running at 30ips at the Record Plant Studio (One Take) just for fun...




Hol


mantrasky said:


> Thank you so much Solar!!! I believe it might have been this one? I was using my BE100 (Please don't kill me)  and my Charvel (Bare Knuckle "Holy Diver" set and Trilogy Suite)
> 
> If you want to trip a little, here's me back in 1980 Using one of my Marshall's Modified by Jose Arrendondo and a White Les Paul Custom with Duncan Distortion in the bridge and a Duncan '59 in the neck position. It's just a minute long guitar solo, back in the day with "Ampex 2" Reel tape running at 30ips at the Record Plant Studio (One Take) just for fun...
> [/QUOTE
> 
> Holy shit bro. Fucking phenomenal playing you sneeky Little bitch! I loved it. Gat daem that was killer. I can parlay that but I can't deliver the goods like I just heard.
> 
> You are exciting to listen to and you run circles around me. Consider my respect and joy of your wringing that gat daem neck. Proper sick playing.


----------



## solarburn

Ok. My phone is fucking up and putting knuckles to it isn't hhelpinMantrasky...fuuuck you can play. a pleasure to listen too. Aggressive and ripping. I found it inspirational. 

Bro. It fucking ripped.


----------



## FTMF

.


----------



## G the wildman

Of course Friedman now make PCB models.

The JJ Jr sounds awesome.

I
Am GASing for one but it may be to close to my JVM.


----------



## Ian Alderman

G the wildman said:


> Of course Friedman now make PCB models.
> 
> The JJ Jr sounds awesome.
> 
> I
> Am GASing for one but it may be to close to my JVM.



The JJ Jr does indeed sound awesome! This reminds me of a little quandary I'm in right now. I'm using a Tone Freak Naked overdrive which was designed by Dave Friedman to push Marshall amps. Found the sweet spot with it and my Studio Classic. But I really like the Friedman Golden Pearl overdrive. Wouldn't mind the Golden Pearl, but it may very well be quite redundant.


----------



## JamesD

I've played Marshalls since 1985, well, up until about 10 months ago. I bought a Ceriatone Yeti, and it was cool, but then I had an opportunity to pick up a 2016 Friedman BE-100 and have been very happy with it. Does it have the same punch, bite, roar and aggression of the several 2203's and 4's that I've owned? No, and that's the only thing I'm somewhat on the fence about. The BE can get very close, and IMO it's better than every other Marshall amp _I've owned_, which is just about all tube models (all but the 1987, 6100, 2061 and 1974). So I find myself wondering if I should go back to a 2203, because to me there is nothing like it. IMO, that's the only model that has something on the BE, but that's just my opinion. What I've not done is compare them side by side in the same room, guitar and cab.


----------



## tallcoolone

Freidman amps sound and feel much different than Marshalls. Not sure where we got to “Freidman = better Marshall” but I’ve owned plenty of both and that is just not true at all.


----------



## Deep Purple fan

Buzzard said:


> Im a marshall guy through and through so Im happy to see friedman carrying on in the marshall vein.Im hoping to get opinions from owners and non owners alike but with experience with both. Am I missing something not owning a friedman? When I hear clips Im not blown away.They sound good but not $3500- good .Is it more of a FEEL thing .From what I understand some models ie. smallbox 50 , brown eye are jose type mods. Are they just another flavor of marshall that I can get with a pedal? To me they sound like a smoother more refined marshall that dosent quite cut through as well in the mix. Or maybe my ears are just getting old LOL. Maybe the friedman hysteria comes from the younger guys who didnt grow up with marshalls.




I love both brands but I’m partial to Marshall based on their legacy. Marshall is a founding sound of the music I love. I’ve owned 3 Friedman’s. That is, Pink Taco, BE100 with matching cab and a DS40 1x12 combo. I sold PT20 because it was redundant.

Friedman’s are really good amps. If you are looking at a pure vintage vibe, I found my DS40 to suit my needs better than Bluesbreaker, JTM or JCM800 amps. The big difference makers for Friedman are the fantastic master volume, the fx loop and the additional gain on tap in the amp. The DS40 is a fantastic amp. The BE100 is also excellent for similar reasons. I did an a/b of my Marshall JVMHJS through a stock greenback loaded 1960AX to the BE100 through the stock Friedman cab and both were great but I liked the JVM a bit more. It stacked up well and was better in some respects. The JVM is one of my favorite amps and the Marshall that suits me best. 

My take on a Friedman is they are great amps. I bought all my Friedman’s used and they are definitely worth the money spent. They tend to have more gain, superior fx loops and superior master volume than most Marshall I’ve played. They are easy to eq and Friedman is very responsive to answering technical questions....often by Dave Friedman personally. Having said that, they are not Marshall’s and have their own thing going. I personally would never write off Marshall and I have 3 Marshall’s now that I love. 

YMV, but it’s best to figure out what sound you want and then do the comparison. Don’t trust YouTube either. I saw a JVMHJS v BE100 and the BE100 blew away the JVM. The reviewer in my opinion deliberately sabotaged the JVM tone.

‘Just to stir the pot, my Engl Blackmore at about 60% of the price new also matches up well with BE100. There are literally no trade offs with the Engl. I’m talking British tones. No midi, but it’s in the same league as a JVM410HJS too. If you are on a budget, Engl Blackmore gets you in the same neighborhood brilliantly. The one and only thing that pisses me off is Blackmore does not use it....but Def Leppard’s Vivian Campbell does.


----------



## South Park

Friedman’s amps are Marshall clones with some mods. It is basically the same thing.


----------



## scottosan

South Park said:


> Friedman’s amps are Marshall clones with some mods. It is basically the same thing.


Aside from cascading gain stages there are more things different than the same. 

In BE mode:

Different voltage dividers after 1st gain stage, most Marshalls have the gain pot here.

Switcheable Cathode bypass values on 2nd gain stage.

Cathode bypassnon on 3rd stages and switcheable cap to ground on the cathode follower tone stack.

HBE and clean share first stage

Diode clipping at a different junction than any Marshall or typical Jose design.


So,.which Marshall is it a clone of?


----------



## South Park

A jcm 800 has a three stage preamp gain cf and phase inverter. Any amp you build with that order in the preamp is a Marshall clone. Thar is nothing wrong in doing so.


----------



## scottosan

South Park said:


> A jcm 800 has a three stage preamp gain cf and phase inverter. Any amp you build with that order in the preamp is a Marshall clone. Thar is nothing wrong in doing so.


Bad logic. A monkey has 2 arms and 2 legs and walks upright, yet we're not clones. The way too many variations that can be made with such a generic topology


----------



## JamesD

JamesD said:


> I've played Marshalls since 1985, well, up until about 10 months ago. I bought a Ceriatone Yeti, and it was cool, but then I had an opportunity to pick up a 2016 Friedman BE-100 and have been very happy with it. Does it have the same punch, bite, roar and aggression of the several 2203's and 4's that I've owned? No, and that's the only thing I'm somewhat on the fence about. The BE can get very close, and IMO it's better than every other Marshall amp _I've owned_, which is just about all tube models (all but the 1987, 6100, 2061 and 1974). So I find myself wondering if I should go back to a 2203, because to me there is nothing like it. IMO, that's the only model that has something on the BE, but that's just my opinion. What I've not done is compare them side by side in the same room, guitar and cab.




Is it okay to quote myself? 

Just an update... I decided to go back to a Marshall after trying out Ceriatone and Friedman. I think I was caught up in the hand-wired hype, combined with believing that clones, in general, were exact replicas of Marshall circuits. In the end, I wasn’t completely happy with either the Ceriatone or the Friedman. Great amps, but neither of them sounded exactly like a Marshall. So, I’ve gone back to genuine Marshall.

I guess I don’t fee like I ever really left, but was more led astray by my own ignorance; I _thought_ I was buying Marshall circuits, just made by someone else and hand-wired. The experience helped me to come to same understanding that many of you here already have due to similar trial and error.

I sold the BE-100 and bought two MKIII’s, an SD-1W and a set of Celestion G12C’s (the speakers only found in the 1982JH and VM425 cabs) with funds to spare.


----------



## South Park

It is all about the balance of tone and gain. That makes the difference


----------



## SloeGin

Has anyone compared the new BE100 deluxe vs the JVM410?
Thanks!


----------



## tallcoolone

South Park said:


> A jcm 800 has a three stage preamp gain cf and phase inverter. Any amp you build with that order in the preamp is a Marshall clone. Thar is nothing wrong in doing so.


Not sure you know what the word ‘clone’ means?


----------

