# Overated guitarists



## Karloff

What guitarists do you, or have you heard people babble on about, that just doesnt do a thing for you. I know this might step on some toes, but thought it might make for a good discussion...


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## SonVolt

YJM, Vai and Satch. 

Ill show myself out.


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## mott555

Kurt Cobain
The DragonForce guys
Slash (I like Slash but the amount of hero-worship he receives is ridiculous)


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## Mosher Zone

Eric Clapton


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## ibmorjamn

^^^ Now for the real hate that follows, EVH.
Not that he is not great , innovative and once a superstar I just never got to excited about his work. I think I appreciate him a little more now than I did back in the day.


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## SonVolt

ibmorjamn said:


> ^^^ Now for the real hate that follows, EVH.
> Not that he is not great , innovative and once a superstar I just never got to excited about his work. I think I appreciate him a little more now than I did back in the day.



I appreciate his work now. As a kid and throughout my teens I thought he was cheeseball rock. I still think the band as a whole is ghey but do dig Eddie's style.


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## Karloff

SonVolt said:


> YJM, Vai and Satch.
> 
> Ill show myself out.


 
Ditto ...
I appreciate their ability, but it's just not my "cup of tea"


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## Karloff

ibmorjamn said:


> ^^^ Now for the real hate that follows, EVH.
> Not that he is not great , innovative and once a superstar I just never got to excited about his work. I think I appreciate him a little more now than I did back in the day.


 
I know just what you're talking about. And he has certainly influenced a generation of guitarists. I think the posturing of David Lee Roth had alot to do with my dislike of the entire Van Halen experience...


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## DirtySteve




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## Adwex

She's good, but her looks are half her fame.


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## Durden

EVH ! YJM, Vai ...just never cared for excessive wanking or the gay glam scene


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## crossroadsnyc

My toes were stepped on in the first 5 posts - twice


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## diesect20022000

Hammett, Petrucci (who is VERY skilled but hasn't ever really impressed me with his passion), Mark Tremonti, Orianthi, Carlos Santana......there are so many I cold go on forever. Not that these aren't very good or even GREAT players but I am not impressed with most of them or am flat out bored with them musicaly or as players.

tremonti and hammett both overuse the wah and pretty much play the same scale in every solo. Orianthi sounds like a bad Santana and Santana has HORRIBLE vibrato imho. things that become some players trademarks annoy me sonically. That said I respect them as players and proginators and people and would still love to talk shop with ANY of them I just don't get googley over them.

Santana's probably my least favorite honestly with Petrucci being my favorite out of those I I listed.

now, I LIKE alter bridge, I love Metallica and I even like some of petrucci theater's music I just don't worship at their alters is all.


players i'm googley over are Paul Gilbert, Stevie ray Vaughn, The Posies, Alice in hains (songwriting and song to note execution is so good though sure there are better or faster players. they know what to do and when and don't do anything that isn't needed especialy Jerry....I aspire to be that someday. where I can say "no this doesn't need these notes here because it works best like this"....that's a truly admirable trait and is imperative in most songwriting)


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## johnfv

One man's junk is another man's treasure so IMO this kind of discussion is pretty pointless. That said, I did smile at the picture of Hammett, he was the first guy that popped into my mind 

You guys have fun


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## mott555

Mosher Zone said:


> Eric Clapton



I almost put Clapton on my list. He's not a bad guitarist and I like some of his stuff, but I just never understood why so many people rank him so highly.

It might just be because I was born in the 80's and I listen to way too many "shredders" playing a fast style of music that didn't exist in the 60's.


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## Quasar-Kid

Carlos Santana... Got famous playing Peter Green knock offs 
and to this day hasn't played an interesting note (other than the Peter Green rip-off stuff) 

Frankly it's Amazing...


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## SwampThing

1. Hammett

2. Slash

3. Jeff Beck ( ya ya I know..)

4. Clapton- Post Cream.


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## diesect20022000

SwampThing said:


> 1. Hammett
> 
> 2. Slash
> 
> 3. Jeff Beck ( ya ya I know..)
> 
> 4. Clapton- Post Cream.


 add these to my list as well.


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## Micky

Slash
Satriani
Vaughn
Malmsteen
Hammett
Richards
Lennon

NOT EVH
NOT Vai
NOT Knopfler
NOT Clapton
NOT Page
NOT Harrison


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## SwampThing

johnfv said:


> One man's junk is another man's treasure so IMO this kind of discussion is pretty pointless. That said, I did smile at the picture of Hammett, he was the first guy that popped into my mind
> 
> You guys have fun




As far as Metallica goes I put more value on what James Hetfield brought with his Rhythm playing.


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## SonVolt

Hate to break it to ya Die but Tremonti is a member of the worlds most hated band, Creed. Trust me, he gets zero respect. Just as it should be.


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## SwampThing

SonVolt said:


> Hate to break it to ya Die but Tremonti is a member of the worlds most hated band, Creed. Trust me, he gets zero respect. Just as it should be.




Like the Tshirt says..Even Jesus hates creed.


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## LuredMaul

1. Curt Cobain
2. Kirk Hammet
3. Any KISS Guitarist
4. CC Deville (not that you can't play but your tone sucks ass and your voice is annoying)
5. The Dragon force posers.


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## diesect20022000

I think Malcolm Young is one of the most UNDERRATED players in the history of monolithic proportionately influential rock bands and Angus is a LITTLE overrated but angus has his thing that's 50% of the sound there. Malcolm not only has the tone and the lazer like precision, he writes most of the tunes and has been the proginator of one of the biggest rock bands in history so therefore he's UNDERrated in my book (and mind you i'm a lead player primarily so it's natural for me to like the lead guy or focus on them anyway)


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## diesect20022000

LuredMaul said:


> 1. Curt Cobain
> 2. Kirk Hammet
> 3. Any KISS Guitarist
> 4. CC Deville (not that you can't play but your tone sucks ass and your voice is annoying)
> 5. The Dragon force posers.


 I don't think anyone ever thought much of Kurt's playing. personaly I think he was underrated as a guitar player partially because no one took him seriously as a GUITARIST and the fact that he could play "better" than his songs called for. He was intentionally sloppy and raw for the sake of the sound. I play many styles and when I play punk (and that varies IMMENSELY as well from punk type etc) I adopt the player's sloppiness or overall approach that i'm "jocking" and there's art in the way players like Jimmy Page, Kurt Cobain and Stevie Ray Vaughn slop with their plectrum hands. Stevie was a great player though and OBVIOUSLY so however.


but the technique players use is interesting when you learn how to "borrow" them.


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## EndGame00

David Gilmour.


*running away very fast*


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## guitargoalie

I don't really find any guitarist overrated. You could say some of my favourites are often overrated, even in this thread.

Clapton, Slash, EVH, Beck...

I feel they all bring something to the table. And I also don't know what we're assessing. Strictly guitar playing ability, or songwriting? To me riffwriting>playing bigtime and maybe thats why I prefer those guys. The flashy licks and solos are a bonus

If I was more inexperienced I would say Keith Richards, I mean he just does that bar chord - hammer on to another major chord in every song right? 

I now consider him the best rhythm guitarist of all time.


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## SonVolt

Writing great riffs will always win out over technical ability. It's why Vai and co. suck, they can't write a memorable riff to save their life.


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## diesect20022000

guitargoalie said:


> I don't really find any guitarist overrated. You could say some of my favourites are often overrated, even in this thread.
> 
> Clapton, Slash, EVH, Beck...
> 
> I feel they all bring something to the table. And I also don't know what we're assessing. Strictly guitar playing ability, or songwriting? To me riffwriting>playing bigtime and maybe thats why I prefer those guys. The flashy licks and solos are a bonus
> 
> If I was more inexperienced I would say Keith Richards, I mean he just does that bar chord - hammer on to another major chord in every song right?
> 
> I now consider him the best rhythm guitarist of all time.


I see your point and raise you this: deification.


deifying a player is inherently overrating someone imho but that's my view. It doesn't mean they aren't great or haven't earned a status in their field but calling any player or artist God and kinda feeling that way is a bit over the top imho and i'm an atheist lol.

that said I still respect everyone that does this. anyone dedicated to their craft has my respect even if I am not a huge fan of their sound. some of my favorites are overrated too. I like Slash and Jeff Beck. I like stevie and EVH but they're just guitar players not heros.

at least not in the traditional sense of the term hero anyway though Eddie invented many things and revolutionized the field so he's one of the higher ups on my list of favs for that reason and les paul is on my list of underrated players for the same reasons Eddie's so highly rated.


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## Fuzz2203

SonVolt said:


> YJM, Vai and Satch.
> 
> Ill show myself out.



This. Problem with these guys is they have zero passion and feel when they play. It sounds like someone taught a robot to play guitar. However, their technical ability is second to none but super lame.


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## Fuzz2203

LuredMaul said:


> 1. Curt Cobain
> 2. Kirk Hammet
> 3. Any KISS Guitarist
> 4. CC Deville (not that you can't play but your tone sucks ass and your voice is annoying)
> 5. The Dragon force posers.



Not a poison fan and understand the CC hate but his tone is pretty awesome (big, punchy, jcm 800 tone) Yes, I understand this post could get me banned


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## alhayesmusic

I actually think Bruce Kulick is WAY underrated.


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## chuckharmonjr

diesect20022000 said:


> I don't think anyone ever thought much of Kurt's playing. personaly I think he was underrated as a guitar player partially because no one took him seriously as a GUITARIST and the fact that he could play "better" than his songs called for. He was intentionally sloppy and raw for the sake of the sound. I play many styles and when I play punk (and that varies IMMENSELY as well from punk type etc) I adopt the player's sloppiness or overall approach that i'm "jocking" and there's art in the way players like Jimmy Page, Kurt Cobain and Stevie Ray Vaughn slop with their plectrum hands. Stevie was a great player though and OBVIOUSLY so however.
> 
> 
> but the technique players use is interesting when you learn how to "borrow" them.



Intentionally sloppy?....lol....the only thing Kurt Cobain was EVER intentionally sloppy with was a Remington 12 ga in a closet


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## diesect20022000

SonVolt said:


> Hate to break it to ya Die but Tremonti is a member of the worlds most hated band, Creed. Trust me, he gets zero respect. Just as it should be.


yeah in the "30 and up" crowd. every "twenty-something" I know is on his NUTS guitar or otherwise player. every single damn kid out here is all about him. the last group I tried to play with......yeesh. so yeah the 30 and up crowd knows better but these are the "line 6 spider 4's are the best amp ever!" crowd as well.......and yes they REALLY are, i'm not even exaggerating this in the least.

I let my last rhythm player who loved tremonti (and so did my "drummer") use my Framus modified dragon (cobra specs) and he kept whining about his spider and still does. I know another ten of these weirdos.....


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## Durden

and i thought tremonti was just another kind of floyd rose system .lol


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## Bflat5

Jake E Lee! - He had some killer stuff on the Ozzy gig, but has not played one note since that has made me take notice. He's been the guest player on That Metal Show lately and I simply do not get his popularity.

Satriani - Good player, seems like a nice guy just not my thang.

Yngwie - Only because everything he plays sounds like something from Rising Force. Still a badass player though.

Paul Gilbert - Only because I want to stir some shit up!


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## Nudge68

Playing guitar is just a process to express yourself musically. Like everyone, I have influences and my tastes change (likes & dislikes) constantly. For me, the terms "overrated" and "best" have no place in music. 

Interesting viewpoints here, thanks to all for sharing. 

Cheers,

Matt.


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## Bflat5

Nudge68 said:


> Playing guitar is just a process to express yourself musically. Like everyone, I have influences and my tastes change (likes & dislikes) constantly. For me, the terms "overrated" and "best" have no place in music.
> 
> Interesting viewpoints here, thanks to all for sharing.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Matt.


 
Good point. I don't think anyone who's in a world famous band and plays sold out shows is overrated.

Kirk, he's not what he used to be in terms of lead, but I know no one can replace him in Metallica. Same goes for Lars. In an interview with Stern he asked Lars if he thinks he is a great drummer and his response was perfect. "I think I'm the best drummer in the world to play behind James Hetfield..."


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## diesect20022000

chuckharmonjr said:


> Intentionally sloppy?....lol....the only thing Kurt Cobain was EVER intentionally sloppy with was a Remington 12 ga in a closet


well you'd have to dig to see what I have. I've seen instances where he played pretty cleanly.
but believe what ya like it makes no diference to me or our friendship brother.


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## Dave666

Myself!


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## poeman33

Those cute Asian girls on youtube that everyone gushes about. Technically, they have learned it all by rote and never miss a note. But they have as much soul as a roll of sod. But yeah...they are cute.

John Mayer. Yeah, you can tell he sat down and played to Jimi's record until he learned every note. Some of his earlier stuff was okay. Then his ego took over and he became a complete asshole. A couple good songs and a decent player. But no way he deserves covers on guitar magazines.


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## 50WPLEXI

I don't think anyone is overated, no guitar player can put out stellar stuff all the time. Some fit the band they're in perfectly, and that's they're nitch.

I take players in stride, and take what I like from them to listen to. Some players are very versitile, but you won't hear it most of the time. A shred artist is marketed that way, and it pays the bills etc.

A player like Alex Skolnick is marketed as a metal player. Yes he's badass in that genre, but a fantastic jazz player as well. 

When all is said and done, all of us have something to contribute I think. Just my humble opinion 

50W


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## mott555

Fuzz2203 said:


> This. Problem with these guys is they have zero passion and feel when they play. It sounds like someone taught a robot to play guitar. However, their technical ability is second to none but super lame.



I agree for YJM and Vai. I really can't get into Vai, and YJM is okay for a few songs but it gets stale fast. But not Satch. I can listen to him all day long, to me he's the one shredder who actually has some soul in his playing.


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## tubes

I had to Like most posts that showed a balanced view.

I don't know why the dislike for Santana.

Whenever I think about Santana I think of what I have seen with my own eyes: a huge band, lots of percussion, horn section, well-equipped keys guy(s), talented vocalists both in front and for back-ups.... been touring internationally for decades... always sounds good on the night.

So he might be lacking in some virtues that are admired by some guitar players. But still, that there in the above paragraph must count for something within the orbit of what it is to be a good guitar player.


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## SonVolt

mott555 said:


> But not Satch. I can listen to him all day long, to me he's the one shredder who actually has some soul in his playing.




Every Satch song to me sounds like a rock 'n roll backing track to a Toyota commercial - the kind where the rebellious daughter with pink hair is dressed in torn blue jeans and a leather jacket and poor dad on the couch looks frightened before everyone gets a hug and hops in the new Camry. Totally generic... but hey that's me.


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## SonVolt

LuredMaul said:


> 1. Curt Cobain [sic]




That's like judging Bruce Springsteen as a guitarist.


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## hbach

SonVolt said:


> Every Satch song to me sounds like a rock 'n roll backing track to a Toyota commercial - the kind where the rebellious daughter with pink hair is dressed in torn blue jeans and a leather jacket and poor dad on the couch looks frightened before everyone gets a hug and hops in the new Camry. Totally generic... but hey that's me.



 I've actually gotten a bit more into Satch lately but this is funny!

End of the day this is a big "like" thing. As someone mentioned: overrated in what sense, technique vs. record sales? Soul (whatever that is) vs. speed?

Never got into Jeff Beck, but it might still happen, who knows.
That being said, I love Abraxas and good ol' Carlitos is the best live act I've seen (before he had his big comeback though!). And can you call it a rip off if Peter Green begged you to do his song(Black Magic Woman)? So


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## GIBSON67

Frusciante - I like Navarro RHCP better! 

YJM, Vai, Satch, Johnson - Technically great, but songs matter more to me.

Slash - really the most overrated, ever. I like his music after GNR(I hate Axl's voice) but just too many people putting him on the top of the guitar mountain!

EVH - too many idolize him. Great original skills, a pioneer and fun early music but i will not bow down. 

Lynch - I've never really heard anything I liked...

Bonamassa - He's filling a niche and looks like he puts on a great show...but I've seen acts just as good on Beale Street.


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## The Ozzk

I'm sorry...


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## chuckmehh

The Ozzk said:


> I'm sorry...



I mean, he IS super overrated. 

I'm throwing in Kurt Cobain, Jack White, Kirk Hammett, *COUGH* Jimmy Page *COUGH*, The dude from the smashing pumpkins, Orianthi, Dino Cazares, Clapton...You guys pretty much nailed the biggest players, actually. Well done.


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## Karloff

diesect20022000 said:


> I think Malcolm Young is one of the most UNDERRATED players in the history of monolithic proportionately influential rock bands and Angus is a LITTLE overrated but angus has his thing that's 50% of the sound there. Malcolm not only has the tone and the lazer like precision, he writes most of the tunes and has been the proginator of one of the biggest rock bands in history so therefore he's UNDERrated in my book (and mind you i'm a lead player primarily so it's natural for me to like the lead guy or focus on them anyway)



Absolutely ... great post


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## Karloff

I have to add Jerry Garcia to the list. In the late 60's, say 1968 and 1969, when he was playing Gibsons, his playing and tone had some drive and fire to it. But as the drugs took over, his "noodling" became boring.


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## SonVolt

Karloff said:


> I have to add Jerry Garcia to the list. In the late 60's, say 1968 and 1969, when he was playing Gibsons, his playing and tone had some drive and fire to it. But as the drugs took over, his "noodling" became boring.




What does a Grateful Dead fan say when the drugs wear off?

















These guys suck!


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## Karloff

EndGame00 said:


> David Gilmour.
> 
> 
> *running away very fast*



Oh no he didn't ! ...
damn, my toes just got crushed, lol


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## Karloff

Nudge68 said:


> Playing guitar is just a process to express yourself musically. Like everyone, I have influences and my tastes change (likes & dislikes) constantly. For me, the terms "overrated" and "best" have no place in music.
> 
> Interesting viewpoints here, thanks to all for sharing.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Matt.



i agree with you. I was just interested to hear what some would say and why. but you're right on mark with your comment.


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## The Ozzk

Karloff said:


> Oh no he didn't ! ...
> damn, my toes just got crushed, lol



Can someone tell me where is the overratedness?  I just like this too much!
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REJfTHBGZw0]Racer X - NAMM 2009 - Technical Difficulties - YouTube[/ame]


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## Nudge68

Karloff said:


> i agree with you. I was just interested to hear what some would say and why. but you're right on mark with your comment.


Now if you had restated by asking _"Guitarists you should dig but don't_", I could list a few ... and my list would change on a daily basis  

... OK, I'm a smart arse! Still, this is a great thread 

cheers,

Matt.


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## guitartate

SwampThing said:


> Like the Tshirt says..Even Jesus hates creed.



yeah but they are laughing all the way to the bank....


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## AlvisX

SonVolt said:


> Writing great riffs will always win out over technical ability. It's why Vai and co. suck, they can't write a memorable riff to save their life.



That, and they dont even SING .......


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## SonVolt

The Ozzk said:


> Can someone tell me where is the overratedness?  I just like this too much!
> Racer X - NAMM 2009 - Technical Difficulties - YouTube




That's actually kinda cool. I didn't know Ben Stiller played bass for him.


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## SonVolt

guitartate said:


> yeah but they are laughing all the way to the bank....




So is Justin Beiber. Are you a Belieber?


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## Vinsanitizer

Cobain.


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## SonVolt

Vinsanitizer said:


> Cobain.




Cobain is not a guitarist! OMG people. He's a singer who plays guitar, ie Bruce Springsteen.


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## Harlequin tusk

AlvisX said:


> That, and they dont even SING .......



No....Vai tried to sing on one of the last albums....hope he doesn't try to sing again....like his playing though


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## Vinsanitizer

SonVolt said:


> Cobain is not a guitarist! OMG people. He's a singer who plays guitar, ie Bruce Springsteen.


 
Fender made the Cobain signature models, and also the Springsteens.

So   !


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## Quasar-Kid

chuckharmonjr said:


> Intentionally sloppy?....lol....the only thing Kurt Cobain was EVER intentionally sloppy with was a Remington 12 ga in a closet



Having seen Nirvana (I don't know dozens of times) I can say with absolute certainty that live he could care less... so yes: he was indeed "intentionally sloppy" if you consider not giving a damn to equal sloppy 

I saw him play an entire show without re-stringing his broken D string...
Truly the man could care less / In the studio and sober / clean / Cobain was a serviceable guitarsist and a solid song writer 

But don't confuse me with Cobain apologists just because I live in Seattle 
The albums Bleach and Nevermind stand without any defense required from me...


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## bvoris

I can make this really easy...
Most Overrated guitarist of all time: Every guitarist that made it big from anything they or someone else wrote.


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## guitartate

SonVolt said:


> So is Justin Beiber. Are you a Belieber?



you should be placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds for that insolence... Just the thought of his name on a Marshall forum makes me ill...


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## paul-e-mann

Mosher Zone said:


> Eric Clapton



Never gave Clapton a 2nd thought until I saw him in a blues jam with a dozen other blues players and he stood out, I realized how smooth and fluid he was compared to everyone else. Clapton is God! Other than that I know not much more about him except I like his Cream days.


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## Bloodrock

Easily Jimi Hendrix... dude recorded 3 mediocre albums, now there's been 278 albums released under his name. Very good player, innovative style, but nothing amazing honeslty. Just blues based rock. I'd put Hendrix and Cobain in the same category, both were very innovative, but neither one wrote anything that was mind blowing or difficult on the guitar...


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## poeman33

Where is the unlike button? Burn Him Burn Him!

Yes you are entitled to your opinion...I just can't fathom it.


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## Quasar-Kid

To a large degree Hendrix and Van Halen are the two untouchables 
Because as pretty much all the great player say:

"There was rock guitar before and then after Hendrix, everything changed"
He literally changed the trajectory of the face of Rock Music 

And with Van Halen I actually got a chance to experience it first hand 
There was Rock Guitar 
Then Van Helen One came out 1978 and everything changed 
Or more properly stated: Every Rock Guitarist Changed 

Those guys are the two Rock Guitar "before" then "after" everything changed guitarists 


Prior to 1978 This 
1) sound & tone
2) This style 
3) This technique 
4) This mood or genre 

Flat out: Did not exist...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1m-DYM7JvMA]Van Halen - Van Halen - Atomic Punk - YouTube[/ame]


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## Australian

Bloodrock said:


> Easily Jimi Hendrix... dude recorded 3 mediocre albums, now there's been 278 albums released under his name. Very good player, innovative style, but nothing amazing honeslty. Just blues based rock. I'd put Hendrix and Cobain in the same category, both were very innovative, but neither one wrote anything that was mind blowing or difficult on the guitar...



Ha!


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## Bflat5

BTW guys... I was just joking with the Paul Gilbert post I made. He's too badass to be overrated.

I will have to add Hendrix and Page in there. Both are more famous now than they were when they were recording. Both had their moments, but I don't see the big deal really.

Almost every guitar player says when asked who their influences are will reference Hendrix. So much so it's like people think they have to say that in order to be accepted or something.

I for one will say Hendrix is not in any way one of my influences. That top honor belongs to the late and still great, Randy Rhoads!


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## SonVolt

bloodrock said:


> easily jimi hendrix... Dude recorded 3 mediocre albums, now there's been 278 albums released under his name. Very good player, innovative style, but nothing amazing honeslty. Just blues based rock. I'd put hendrix and cobain in the same category, both were very innovative, but neither one wrote anything that was mind blowing or difficult on the guitar...



gtfo!!


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## SonVolt

Goddamnit MODS would you please remove the caps lock filter?!?!? No one here writes in all caps! It ****s up acronyms.


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## Durden

GTFO! ?


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## John 14:6

Jimmy Page.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XRzOIkRlBw]Jimmy Page-Stairway to Heaven-ARMS New York 1983 - YouTube[/ame]

The Led Zeppelin reunion show was horrible also.......I remember when he could play decently, but that was long time ago. Jimmy has not played well since 1975. I doubt that he even picks up a guitar more thaan once or twice a month these days. He wrote some good songs, but they were not all gems. He was always good at finding blues and folk guys he could steal songs and ideas from. He did have a pretty creative period though it was a fairly short window when he was at the top of his game or actually in the game.


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## SonVolt

durden said:


> Gtfo! ?



gtfo!!


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## SonVolt

I give up.


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## guitargoalie

Hell I don't know more than 5 hendrix tunes and I still hear many jimi-isms come through in my playing

Dude must've done something right


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## Durden

sonvolt said:


> i give up.



 WTF dude. FTW


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## Bflat5

Is someone over celebrating tonight?


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## reno88

bonamassa.
dude rips it up, but i think he's sterile. he has his legion of devotees but i am not one of them. 
mayer. he's a pop star that can play pretty well. and quite a douche.
keith urban and brad paisley. most of my loathing comes from the genre of music they play. contemporary country, to me, is the most vapid, soul-less tripe i've ever heard. these 2 just pile on.


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## maxxi

kerry fking king...


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## Barfly

Mosher Zone said:


> Eric Clapton



Plus one! I *love* a lot of his songs but "slow hand" is about as exciting on guitar as "slow wallpaper" peeling off the wall. IMHO of course.


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## Ampcrazy

SonVolt said:


> Writing great riffs will always win out over technical ability. It's why Vai and co. suck, they can't write a memorable riff to save their life.


True that's why they're shredders as well because they're all fingers and no song. That's why they play that type of music because they're incapable of writing a decent tune that would work with a vocalist.

Also all that Vai stuff is so pretentious it's unreal. A bit like being so far up your own backside that you eventually disappear.

I can't listen to players like that anymore, they just don't impress me. Those shredders are everywhere and they seem to be a dime a dozen but not one of them can innovate or play with the passion EVH did/does.


----------



## guitargoalie

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqGbE3hAawY]Greg Koch On Eric Clapton[/ame]


----------



## 2203xman

+1000 on Kirk,and CC,and I would like to add KK.(not Kerry)...Tipton's buddy


----------



## RazorDave

I think the whole problem about "Overrated," guitarists, is not really the guitarists themseleves, but more the godly pedestal that people, and especially kids put on them. That is what makes them overrated. But yeah, sometimes it is kind of Irritating.


----------



## Ghostman

DirtySteve said:


>



Shit, he's a guitartist?!?!? 

I thought he played the Wah. My bad.


----------



## Ghostman

Jimmy Vaughn. It was like he picked up a guitar because his brother was awesome. And no one had the nuts to tell Jimmy, he has NO reason to be on stage with a guitar.


----------



## Nicholas666

Page. His playing never really got me. Especially his live stuff...ehhhhh


----------



## chuckmehh

Ghostman said:


> Jimmy Vaughn. It was like he picked up a guitar because his brother was awesome. And no one had the nuts to tell Jimmy, he has NO reason to be on stage with a guitar.



Sarcasm?


----------



## Marshall=Awesome

Ghostman said:


> Jimmy Vaughn. It was like he picked up a guitar because his brother was awesome. And no one had the nuts to tell Jimmy, he has NO reason to be on stage with a guitar.



Thats funny because Stevie picked up guitar because his older brother Jimmy had them around the house all the time.


----------



## bvoris

Ghostman said:


> Shit, he's a guitartist?!?!?
> 
> I thought he played the Wah. My bad.



Do not anger Kirk Wahammett...
You will make him cry and he will go wah, wah, wah all the way home. :Ohno:


----------



## 4STICKS

Marshall=Awesome said:


> Thats funny because Stevie picked up guitar because his older brother Jimmy had them around the house all the time.



I liked Jimmy's stuff with the Thunderbirds. I mean it wasn't earth shattering, but it was rockin'.


----------



## hamstercaster

As others I think Hammett is overrated but to be fair, in the 80's I think he seemed destined to be a pretty good guitarist but he seems to have plateau'd at some point. Now his overuse of the Wah and his sloppiness make him overrated. I always thought that Hetfield was a much better guitarist overall although he too has become sloppier and sloppier live.

Petrucci - I just don't like his over technical style. He's got talent, that's for sure but it just doesn't do anything for me. Same as to be said about Portnoy as a drummer.


----------



## bvoris

Zakk Wylde impression of Kirk Wahammett:
TubeChop - Zakk Wylde - Epiphone Guitars (00:38)


----------



## Ghostman

chuckmehh said:


> Sarcasm?



none

edit: I don't know the history of the Vaughn's, which came first. But I saw Jimmy on TV play two different live sets and they were both so god awful that I just thought, "I feel sorry for Steve's retarded brother."


----------



## big dooley

considering reactions from people after a gig: 
i'm overrated... 
sometimes they haven't got a bloody clue what the difference between a decent player and a professional is...


----------



## RandallPink

Stevie Ray Vaughan


----------



## AlvisX

Eric Clapton INVENTED Marshall tone in 1966
Then he did THIS
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbqQL0J_Vr0]Cream - Sunshine of Your Love - YouTube[/ame]

Really man ,we wouldn't even be havin a Marshall forum if not for The Cream


----------



## SonVolt

Clapton should have stayed a lead guitarist in someone else's band. I can't stand his "Eric Clapton" solo artist work.


----------



## Georgiatec

EndGame00 said:


> David Gilmour.
> 
> 
> *running away very fast*



You can run....but you can't hide 

EVH....great guitarist in a SHITE band


----------



## SonVolt

Georgiatec said:


> EVH....great guitarist in a SHITE band




Agreed. Nothing says cheeseball dad-rock like Van Halen. I showed this pic to my 12 year old nephew and he busted out laughing and said "that's soooo gay".


----------



## vex_Sb

hamstercaster said:


> As others I think Hammett is overrated but to be fair, in the 80's I think he seemed destined to be a pretty good guitarist but he seems to have plateau'd at some point. Now his overuse of the Wah and his sloppiness make him overrated. I always thought that Hetfield was a much better guitarist overall although he too has become sloppier and sloppier live.
> 
> Petrucci - I just don't like his over technical style. He's got talent, that's for sure but it just doesn't do anything for me. Same as to be said about Portnoy as a drummer.




Hi. I MUST say something on this ... 

As first - i don't think Hammett is overrated. 

Why ?? Well , who the **** even think he is guitar god ?? I always listen about his sloppiness and riding wah pedal.

But, don't forget he DID make some of immortal stuff , solos and riffs for biggest band ever , so i pay my respect on that . 


overrated : 

slash - o yes ... his bending is as same level as kirk's wah overdose ... he can play entire solo not to move hand just bend up and down 2 strings . lazy ass 

santana

jimmy page - i mean wtf, all that shit you can play with 1 year of guitar in your hands . i don't get how can some1 put him on list of best guitar players ? And i dont credit him on material either because he probably stole that shit somewhere 

hendrix - i really can't see or hear that "GOD" part ... maybe if i go on stage and burn some shit , guitar, amp, maybe little of drums ...  ... i agree about changing history of guitar, but that's it .. if he didn't make that some1 else would ... it's same as what if inventor of wheel never born ?? we would still riding horse and go on foot ??  



on the other hand ...

Satriani - god . period . he have all kind of songs, slow and fast, there is soul inside, there is everything inside ... and over all that - unreal technical ability 

knopfler - more passion and feeling than in mexican soap in most critical moment. 

i like te maiden's - all 3 of them know their shit and play great tunes . 

Ritchie Blackmore - NOW he was probably influence for many ... god. period.


----------



## S.A.T.O.

I don't like this thread...


----------



## Amp360

Billy Gibbins - this one I will never understand
Slash - AFD and UYI were ok cock rock records for the time. Nothing groundbreaking, although people talk about them like they were some different, amazing band when they were just a Hit Parade/Metal Edge type of band along with Faster Pussycat, Warrant and Bon Jovi. November Rain was just as cheesy as Unskinny Bop. Slash isn't a bad guitar player, but I just never saw him do anything different then the pentatonic wanking that people did in the 80s. As for the AFD toan, I just never even thought it was all that different or great to begin with.

Most of the "middle name" guitar playerz:

Stevie "Ray" Vaughn
Eric "John" Stone
Kenny "Wayne" Shepard
Joe "Bonna" Massa

et al


----------



## brp

Wow, tough crowd.




bvoris said:


> Zakk Wylde impression of Kirk Wahammett:
> TubeChop - Zakk Wylde - Epiphone Guitars (00:38)



He's one to talk about "enough already" with his pinch harmonics every other bar to the point they become a parody of himself.


----------



## sidvicious

the thread should be qualified with such: judge those within the time that they gained fame, and, within your time in your formative years.

for example, if you were born in the 80's, what could you possibly know about how it was to achieve stardom in the 60's, 70's and 80's? not much.

give yourself a little test. unplug the pedals and toss the hotrodded amps. thats what most of the "meh" guitarists were using. very few things to smooth the playing. basically straight up guitar and amp. do this when playing clapton, hendrix, vaughan, and others of that era and see if you can do it. if so, post it on youtube. then come back and we'll knight you.

now to the thread.

i was never impressed with andy summers. when the police hit his playing was awed by a lot of guys. i couldn't see why. overly processed, it seemed to me. to clarify, he may be a fine player but i couldn't detect it from the recordings.

buddy guy. yeah, black and all that. he's just not that good. i know. done many a show with him.

motley crue. don't know their names, but thought the guitar work was pedestrian. the kids loved it and thought they were amazing.

roy clark. yep. he's a straight in guy, no doubt. and he's good, sometimes very good. but he's not nearly as hot as the guys standing behind him.

toni iommi. i'm a huge sabboth fan. his sound is legend. his playing, less so.

perpetual shredders. chunk that sock-in-your-pants pedal board or rack, and lets see how it hangs.

kenny shepard and johnn lang. nothing all that great. good, but....

slash. good, and keeps a good thing going. not great god like many here have said.

david gilmore. not a guitar god. he's a sound god. but, he's the first to admit it.


----------



## Marshall Gibson

* Orianthi
* Eric Clapton
* Michael Angelo Masturbatio
* Jack White
* Slash


----------



## TwinACStacks

It's a Shame that whole Grunge genre' didn't die with Cobain.

All you Page haters can go F*CK Yourselves....

That is all.

 TWIN


----------



## TwinACStacks

vex_Sb said:


> Hi. I MUST say something on this ...
> 
> As first - i don't think Hammett is overrated.
> 
> Why ?? Well , who the **** even think he is guitar god ?? I always listen about his sloppiness and riding wah pedal.
> 
> But, don't forget he DID make some of immortal stuff , solos and riffs for biggest band ever , so i pay my respect on that .
> 
> 
> overrated :
> 
> slash - o yes ... his bending is as same level as kirk's wah overdose ... he can play entire solo not to move hand just bend up and down 2 strings . lazy ass
> 
> santana
> 
> jimmy page - i mean wtf, all that shit you can play with 1 year of guitar in your hands . i don't get how can some1 put him on list of best guitar players ? And i dont credit him on material either because he probably stole that shit somewhere
> 
> hendrix - i really can't see or hear that "GOD" part ... maybe if i go on stage and burn some shit , guitar, amp, maybe little of drums ...  ... i agree about changing history of guitar, but that's it .. if he didn't make that some1 else would ... it's same as what if inventor of wheel never born ?? we would still riding horse and go on foot ??
> 
> 
> 
> on the other hand ...
> 
> Satriani - god . period . he have all kind of songs, slow and fast, there is soul inside, there is everything inside ... and over all that - unreal technical ability
> 
> knopfler - more passion and feeling than in mexican soap in most critical moment.
> 
> i like te maiden's - all 3 of them know their shit and play great tunes .
> 
> Ritchie Blackmore - NOW he was probably influence for many ... god. period.



 Oh Christ, another 16 year old wannabe shredder. Yep, Blackmore's a GOD, JIMI was nothing...

 TWIN


----------



## scat7s

1) slash
2) most of the glam shred dinosaurs vai/lynch/yjm et al.
3) evh-a true pioneer, very rare, there has only been a handful and he's earned his place as one. but enough already. the tank is empty.
4) zakk wylde


----------



## scat7s

> He's one to talk about "enough already" with his pinch harmonics every other bar to the point they become a parody of himself.


 
thats exactly what he is, a charicature...BLS haha, if he wasnt "zakk wylde" would ANYONE give a flying **** about his copycat ozzy vocals and teen-age type songwriting? 

i wrote better lyrics when i was a teenager hahahahaa...


----------



## Lo-Tek

aren't they all over-rated?


----------



## thunderkyss

Everyone who posted in this thread is overrated


----------



## scat7s

randy rhoads too...geeze, the guy recorded two albums. they were good, but not "kneel at the altar of randy" good. 

time has not been as kind to randy as some portray imo.


----------



## vex_Sb

TwinACStacks said:


> Oh Christ, another 16 year old wannabe shredder



You coul'd not be more wrong 



TwinACStacks said:


> . Yep, Blackmore's a GOD, JIMI was nothing...
> 
> TWIN



I am not saying Jimi was nothing, i am saying that he is overrated guitarist. While i don't like most of his work, i respect that someone else like that kind of music. I am more into purple and sabbath. 

And technically not even in same sentence with Blackmore, i think there can not be arguing here ? I am putting them neck to neck because they are nearly same age and everything. 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfAWReBmxEs]Deep Purple-Child in Time - YouTube[/ame]


I really do not understand how people tend to build altars to dead people ( hendrix, senna, cobain, ... ) and make them gods , and when you see numbers you realise that there was someone else who was playing better, driving faster or whatever. No disrespect but just my opinion.


----------



## scat7s

> how people tend to build altars to dead people ( hendrix, senna, cobain, ... ) and make them gods ,



indeed


----------



## TwinACStacks

vex_Sb said:


> You coul'd not be more wrong
> 
> 
> 
> I am not saying Jimi was nothing, i am saying that he is overrated guitarist. While i don't like most of his work, i respect that someone else like that kind of music. I am more into purple and sabbath.
> 
> And technically not even in same sentence with Blackmore, i think there can not be arguing here ? I am putting them neck to neck because they are nearly same age and everything.
> 
> Deep Purple-Child in Time - YouTube
> 
> 
> I really do not understand how people tend to build altars to dead people ( hendrix, senna, cobain, ... ) and make them gods , and when you see numbers you realise that there was someone else who was playing better, driving faster or whatever. No disrespect but just my opinion.



Vex, Point taken. Technically yes Blackmore is a Better Player, it's the intangible that made JIMI great, not only his R&B fusion into a psychedelic Rock Genre' but you can hear it in examples like Machine Gun, Have you ever been to Electric Ladyland, the Long blues version of Voodoo child of JIMI'S ability to put his feelings, his very Heart and "Soul" if you will, into each Gut-wrenching note. I know of NO other Guitarist with the exception of maybe Page doing "Since I've been Loving You" where I personally have experienced this emotional impact.

Sorry about the 16 yr. old wisecrack. We have so many come on this forum.

Just my opinion though.

 TWIN


----------



## CaptainZero

Marshall Gibson said:


> * Orianthi
> * Eric Clapton
> * Michael Angelo Masturbatio
> * Jack White
> * Slash



Now THAT is funny! 

I can't stand Jack White. That is all.


----------



## Amp360

sidvicious said:


> buddy guy. yeah, black and all that. he's just not that good. i know. done many a show with him.



While I agree with 99% of your post I LOVE Buddy Guy just for the story of that crybaby druggie guy who BG got loaded and traded him out of his Strat.

That being said, not a huge fan of his playing.


----------



## AlvisX

Hendrix - the OTHER reason there's a Marshall forum 

If you were alive during his lifetime , you GOT it ! 
Ritchie Blackmore GOT IT . If he was here he'd tell ya . Hendrix if one of the few guitar players RB likes . There's a reason the 355 went away from most of DP after 1968.....


----------



## Adrian R

Simple: Clapton & Hendrix (although I appreciate the innovation)...

I am not a huge Vai or Satch fan either. Appreciate them again for innovation, but they rely too much on FX...

As I age I would almost have to put EVH in that category as well..

Simply incredible innovation..but the playing lacks good composition or soul.

I wish Eddie would put out an all guitar album with no stupid vocals for guitarists, and lay it all out. I would really be interested in hearing it!

Also, as I revisit his early recordings, find his tone very compressed.


----------



## sidvicious

Amp360 said:


> While I agree with 99% of your post I LOVE Buddy Guy just for the story of that crybaby druggie guy who BG got loaded and traded him out of his Strat.
> 
> That being said, not a huge fan of his playing.



here's what he could not and cannot do. there's a few ways to play blues when playing lead. lots of variances, yes, but a few basic things.

you can rip the guitar a new ass. johnny winter. srv, frank marino, bugs henderson, clapton, alvin lee, ronnie robertson, trower, pete green, and lots others and unknowns, etc. BUT, you gotta know the start and stop, and appropriate gaps. 

or, you can lope with some melodic notes and some bends, working in and out of the melody. all the above and many others. on this, you need to know and be the lead in the turn-around.

buddy guy can do neither. i like the guy and when it was my first show with him i was very excited, only to be very underwhelmed. in blues shows there is always the proverbial 12 bar jam. its easy, basic stuff. he can't do it. and forget something upbeat like crossroads.

he can play, he just doesn't have licks.

he's not a guitar soldier and the real hero's are. give'em a guitar and start a song, they can make it work.

i played shows with winter and henderson, and others on those southern tours. look out; they'll take your head off. i've played some 80's metal with johnny winter and man, you talking about fun. bugs henderson [deceased in 2012] is one of the most unusual guys i've ever played with. he knew every lick ever played by any person. couldn't sing worth a shit.


----------



## sidvicious

i didn't get the white stripes but i do like jack white. in my opinion he's a good player and trys to stay pretty basic; not being overly dependant on gear.


----------



## anitoli

TwinACStacks said:


> Vex, Point taken. Technically yes Blackmore is a Better Player, it's the intangible that made JIMI great, not only his R&B fusion into a psychedelic Rock Genre' but you can hear it in examples like Machine Gun, Have you ever been to Electric Ladyland, the Long blues version of Voodoo child of JIMI'S ability to put his feelings, his very Heart and "Soul" if you will, into each Gut-wrenching note. I know of NO other Guitarist with the exception of maybe Page doing "Since I've been Loving You" where I personally have experienced this emotional impact.
> 
> Sorry about the 16 yr. old wisecrack. We have so many come on this forum.
> 
> Just my opinion though.
> 
> TWIN


 
Agreed. Jimi deserves the occolade. His studio stuff pales in comparison to his live work. Band of Gypsys, Woodstock,to name a few. This man changed the game forever. Hands down.

Look at the King in action. Only Jimi could look cool doing this:


----------



## thunderkyss

Amp360 said:


> While I agree with 99% of your post I LOVE Buddy Guy just for the story of that crybaby druggie guy who BG got loaded and traded him out of his Strat.
> 
> That being said, not a huge fan of his playing.



I loved Buddy Guy back in the day... all the Junior Wells stuff. Now... eh.


I think he's trying to be who he thinks everybody thinks he is.


----------



## HOT TUBES 70

Curt Cobain 
Neil Young
Eric Clapton
Bruce Springsteen
Jack White 


And Fukk could i go on & on .... and on


----------



## Ydna

HOT TUBES 70 said:


> Curt Cobain
> Neil Young
> Eric Clapton
> Bruce Springsteen
> Jack White
> 
> 
> And Fukk could i go on & on .... and on



I can understand those, except Neil Young. No one talks much about his guitar playing. It's his writing that's the big deal. As a guitarist, he just is. As a writer, I'd say him and Bob Dylan are equals. Huge amoun of great work.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Eric Clapton, Kurt Cobain, and Kirk Hammett are the top 3 for me.


----------



## slide222

Richie blackmore and eric Clapton are the 2 that for years I've struggled to see why they are rated so highly - I saw rainbow in the 80,s and found blackmore very disappointing......edit , I can't believe anybody would diss jimi-what ever sort of guitarist are you - leave the forum now - check out bold as love - check out band of the gypsies - check out his later stuff , just to get a feel of the magic he would have created in the 70's


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Richie did influence a lot of neo-classical guitar styles. Even if you hate that style of music, there's quite a few players that play traditional hard rock and heavy metal that still have that style, like Randy Rhoads, or Wolf Hoffmann of Accept, who is extremely underrated, by the way.

Not to mention, for his time, we was pretty damn skilled. He was doing something not many guitarists were doing at the time.


----------



## slide222

when I saw him live , all he seemed to do was 2 note bar chords ,and I found it dissapointing - but I know nothing of his acoustic music


----------



## Marival

slide222 said:


> when I saw him live , all he seemed to do was 2 note bar chords ,and I found it dissapointing - but I know nothing of his acoustic music



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6nR2aNO1pg]Rainbow - Difficult to Cure(Beethovens Ninth) - YouTube[/ame]

2 note bar chord this.


----------



## slide222

not saying he isn't good , but I don't put him as the best , Hendrix , kossoff, and tommy bolin inspire me


----------



## Marival

slide222 said:


> not saying he isn't good , but I don't put him as the best , Hendrix , kossoff, and tommy bolin inspire me



Blackmore happens to inspire me. The difference is that I don't tell you to gtfo this forum because the same isn't true for you.


----------



## TwinACStacks

AlvisX said:


> Hendrix - the OTHER reason there's a Marshall forum
> 
> If you were alive during his lifetime , you GOT it !
> Ritchie Blackmore GOT IT . If he was here he'd tell ya . Hendrix if one of the few guitar players RB likes . There's a reason the 355 went away from most of DP after 1968.....



 I sure as hell got it. I KNOW you did as well Alvin. JIMI'S Heart and soul was not Rock, it was BLUES....

 TWIN


----------



## thunderkyss

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Richie did influence a lot of neo-classical guitar styles. Even if you hate that style of music, there's quite a few players that play traditional hard rock and heavy metal that still have that style, like Randy Rhoads, or Wolf Hoffmann of Accept, who is extremely underrated, by the way.
> 
> Not to mention, for his time, we was pretty damn skilled. He was doing something not many guitarists were doing at the time.



Ynwie is the biggest Blackmore fanboi & he makes a pretty good living doing it.

He plays white strats with big headstocks because Blackmore played white strats with big headstocks. 

He plays old 4 hole Marshalls, because Blackmore played 4 hole Marshalls.


----------



## Kaptain_Krunch

Satriani- soulless fretboard wankery. Incredibly talented yet leaves me bored quickly.

Vai - similar to above but also a MASSIVE poser. Seem like a real nice guy however.

Ace Frehely - just no , stop please my ears hurt.


----------



## sidvicious

some of the replies seem to focus on taste rather than overall skill value within the player's genre. perhaps i misunderstood the point of the thread. its not the first, nor the last.


----------



## Relic61

Here just some thoughts I've been kickin around about Jimi & his playing ability & style.

What was amazing about Jimi to me was his interpretation of what a guitar was and how he approached playing it. He makes me look at the guitar differently & see it as more than just an instrument. It often seemed he was summoning the power and expressive magic from the guitar. Think of that iconic clip where his Strat is on fire and Jimi is on his knees gesturing with his hands like he is drawing the spirit held within it to come forth from the instrument & show itself.






I think he got it. He understood the Voo-Doo , if you will, or the magic that could be found in a powerful amp & an expressive guitar combination such as a whammy barred Strat through a Marshall Stack. It was capable of creating mood & conjuring dreams & he owned that understanding & controlled that power every time he got in front of people to play with that Strat in his hand and that Marshall Stack cranked behind him.

Sure, Jimi did not have a dexterous fingered style or approach of say a Ritchie Blackmore, he played totally different. For instance, if you watch & study his playing, he is mostly seen not using the pinky finger (at all?) and it frankly it looks like he's playing with 2 fingers most of the time, but the sound & expressive feeling he was able to create mostly using those 2 fingers was as huge as it was innovative & as trend setting as it was idolized & copied for years to come, pinky finger be damned. Kinda reminds me of anther two finger guitarist.





Django Reinhardt







Jimi was also good for using his thumb.






And the middle finger would find its way to grabbing that major 3rd in a chord.


The facts seem to indicate that even Jimi wasn't happy with the whole 'jimi Hendrix' thing & was looking to play different music. His success at playing & performing had in many ways already boxed him in. That Jimi thing was what people wanted & expected to hear from him as well as it was what paid the bills, for lots of folks besides Jimi. More or less Jimi was trapped by his own success. I'm sure that given a bit more time we would have heard & seen additional layers & technique develop from him. Sadly enough, we only have what music we have due to his early death, but I can't help but feel he was far from done growing in his ability & style. Heck, with time, he may have even started to work that pinky in to his playing. Ya never know.

Personal opinion, I think it was amazing he did what he did playing the way he played. His style of playing inspired & showed a whole bunch of people that you dont have to be a dexterous virtuoso on the guitar or schooled in perfect form to make amazing guitar music & summon the power & magic that lays within it. Proving that sometimes it's more than the ability to play notes in perfect form, it's the ability to pull that magic & power out from that guitar and allow others to hear & feel it. That is what Jimi did so well. He understood that magic. I'm greatful he was able to show his mastery & share it with us. His approach has been enlightening. I only wish I had such a gift to leave with others after I'm checked out of this happy hotel myself. 

A short point on the others mentioned, I do appreciate what they are good at & most have inspired me in their own way as well. Blackmore has gotten me to learn how to play long melodic passages, Via & Satch had me looking at high gain & processed tones & notes that complemented what I already was inspired to learn from EV's tap n dive style. You Know? There is something about all of them that have value. The trick is quantifying that value beyond our personal likes and dislikes. I personally have an 'everybody is good for somethin' approach and my personal likes ebb & flow with time, often coming back full circle again where I appreciate things for what there are & have to offer all over again.

While Hendrick's catalog can get old or even boring after over exposure and his playing style can seem limited, I'm not sure it would ever be possible to over value what he has contributed to us as guitar players in his approach & style playing guitar.

Rock On.


----------



## Crawford354

Mosher Zone said:


> Eric Clapton



Not sure if this is a joke, but if not really curious why... because clapton rocks.


----------



## Crawford354

Ghostman said:


> Shit, he's a guitartist?!?!?
> 
> I thought he played the Wah. My bad.



See what's funny to me is that he claims SRV is one of his biggest influences, and I love SRV but dislike Hammett, clearly two different styles. I mean to me there's no distinction between SRV's music and Krik's. 

And then there's this:... Kirk Hammett: How to Play Like Stevie Ray Vaughan | Guitar World


----------



## jc109

John Mayer.
Tom Morello.


Here's how it goes………..

Guitar before Robert Johnson, guitar after Robert Johnson.

Guitar before Chuck Berry, guitar after Chuck Berry.

Guitar before Jimi Hendrix, guitar after Jimi Hendrix.

Guitar before Eddie Van Halen, guitar after Eddie Van Halen.

Everyone else has just been copying what they did.
Filling in some blanks, improving some things, some great innovation, some stellar technique, some monumental song writing, but no game changers.

We're due for a game changer, it's been decades, can't imagine what it would be.

YJM got close to passing the torch, but his douchebaggerery and euro style were out of synch with American Rock and Roll, and too soon on the heels of EVH.

Talk smack on these guys if you must, but no amount amount notes, perfection of technique, arpeggiated syncopation, can be a game changer. It must come from the streets, the fields, from the gut, from one's experience.

Are You Experienced?


----------



## Las Palmas Norte

sidvicious said:


> some of the replies seem to focus on taste rather than overall skill value within the player's genre. perhaps i misunderstood the point of the thread. its not the first, nor the last.



...or in the case of one poster unconvinced of Blackmore's abilties or over-ratedness (is there such a word?), back then Ritchie did play according to his mood and audience responce. I don't like Blackmore for that but his skill was astounding. Listen to the LP "In Rock" on a good set of headphones one day.
Over rated? ... I don't think so.

Cheers, Barrie.


----------



## sidvicious

someone pointed out tom morello.

i agree. he repeatedly shows up in cameo as "the hot guitar player". while he has some skills, i'm completely unimpressed. very stuck in the cage most of the time. completely scalular with virtually no variance. he's one i really don't get the hype over.

to me, its like he comes from a genre that doesn't have guitar monsters, and someone heard him play and thought "wow". only, its not so wow at all.

hell, when i actually take some warm up time to do some speedy scale work i think i'm tom morello. laughable, really. hell, if I can do it, its not so great.


----------



## HOT TUBES 70

Kaptain_Krunch said:


> Satriani- soulless fretboard wankery. Incredibly talented yet leaves me bored quickly.
> 
> Vai - similar to above but also a MASSIVE poser. Seem like a real nice guy however.
> 
> Ace Frehely - just no , stop please my ears hurt.






Really ??

Satriani & Via leave you bored quickly ... 

Two guys who have done more for the guitar playing world than any other's !!

And Ace left his mark in a different fashion , but none the less a pioneer that deserves our respect !


----------



## HOT TUBES 70

Here's a guy who makes we wonder alot , this man has 2 licks in his arsenal , and still makes a living to this day !!


George Thorogood !!



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0q8Oho_RjM]I Drink Alone - George Thorogood - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## vex_Sb

ok hendrix made huge impact on the world, but in the same time Ritchie was ripping guitar and for me he is picture of modern guitarist, always wondering about enhancing instrument, was among first to scalloping his guitars, modding pup's and amps and all other craps  

hendrix was into ... weed i guess  ...

ok, same thing but bass. ... what do you think is Cliff Burton overrated  ??


----------



## sidvicious

to those that named hendrix, clapton, page, and beck.

who, during each player's prime, who would you name instead, and why? in the late 60's and into the early 70's, who should it be?

just curious. actually, i suggest you don't know what you're talking about.


----------



## thunderkyss

Relic61 said:


> While Hendrick's catalog can get old or even boring after over exposure and his playing style can seem limited, I'm not sure it would ever be possible to over value what he has contributed to us as guitar players in his approach & style playing guitar.
> 
> Rock On.



Good post... but I believe if you're bored, or feel limited by Jimi's playing style, you're not looking deep enough. 

To me, Jimi had no limits. He opened the guitar up in so many ways, from his fiery blues inspired licks to his incredible rhytmic work (AATWT, Little Wing) to his interpretation of musical genres to his experimentation with sound.

All roads lead to Jimi. Rock, Jazz, Blues, even "classically" influenced players like Yngwie & Blackmore took what Jimi did & explored this wonderful thing we call music.


----------



## Yetti

Clapton (winner)
BB King (same few riffs, over, and over, and over)
Peter Townsend (sloppy, gimicky)


----------



## Relic61

The really sad part is when you think about todays players & the lack of amazing guitarists. Lately it has caused me to reflect upon the very real possibility that being a good guitar player & making awesome guitar based music could be a passing phase that is on it's way to fading away.

Back in the day, playing music & learning guitar appealed to youngsters & music pulled them in & gave them the desire to learn and master an instrument. I am afraid this has been lost on today's tech savy overstimulated generation. Lets face it, getting good & being competent on guitar isn't a quick and easy thing to do. It takes a level of commitment and a sincere love for music to get you where you gotta be. 

When I was young, lots of kids played music & had bands. I don't see that happening today at the same level as then. Why? Because it's hard? Video games are more fun? Easier? Doesn't hurt my fingers? Isn't as frustrating? My God! What has happened? Will the day of the amazing guitarist soon enough be a thing of the past?

Maybe that new guitar learning software 'Rocksmith' can resuscitate this once admired & now all but abandoned art-form. OK, I'm being dramatic, but none the less, the point seems very realistic & the trend away from lots of people being musicians & or trying to be good guitarists is undeniable.

I think guitarist, good guitarists, should just be enjoyed & appreciated for what they do. I really have no need in life to judge or compare. I Just take whatever enjoyment I can from the music I hear. When I get antsy, (tired or bored) I move on. I never fed into the one is better than the other, this guy sucks, this guys is better way of looking at music or musicians. Most who have made it to some level of success usually have enough playing ability to be enjoyed & appreciated. I never could say Clapton was better than Paige or Hendrix was better than whoever because I always seen them as each having something of their own value to offer & give.

While 'better than' or 'over-rated' can surely be argued to death, it is all subjective to the individual. It smacks me as being petty & judgmental. Yah, I've been guilty of it myself but that doesn't make such judgments less so. Everybody has their own to offer & every individual has the right to like what they like. That's the way I like to look at it. But it's also fine if people have opinions or want to categorize 'better thans' & 'over-rated'. Maybe I'm just realizing I'm a live n let live hippie, or something man.

So just enjoy man. Peace.


----------



## 1neeto

LOL of course shredders will always get hate in these kind of threads. Shocking.  

Also Cobain gets way too much hate. He was never considered a great guitar player, but he did make guitar playing accessible. He showed the world that you can write a great song with just 4 power chords. He also put an end to the ridiculous butt-rock scene of the 80's.


----------



## Amp360

1neeto said:


> LOL of course shredders will always get hate in these kind of threads. Shocking.
> 
> Also Cobain gets way too much hate. He was never considered a great guitar player, but he did make guitar playing accessible. He showed the world that you can write a great song with just 4 power chords. He also put an end to the ridiculous butt-rock scene of the 80's.



I think Ray and Dave Davies showed the world you can write a great song with just four power chords years before Nirvana.


----------



## NewReligion

I am over rated for certain.

David ♫


----------



## DirtySteve

NewReligion said:


> I am over rated for certain.
> 
> David ♫



...and far too humble.


----------



## keennay

Lil' Wayne

Who the **** told him this was a good idea? 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBM1LCZKkQg[/ame]


----------



## sidvicious

yeah, cobain was never a guitar god to the guitarists of the world. his influence and appeal was elsewhere. not that he didn't make good on what he did, but he really shouldn't be considered overrated in this regard because he was never in the contest.

same for georgeT. he's never been, to my knowledge, rated as one of "those" guitar gods. he is good, though, and has some licks. he pretty much does it the hard way and can hold his own.

to short cut on the development of today's artists, effects makes things much, much easier. pedals and racks help many a player where skill once ruled.


----------



## 1neeto

Amp360 said:


> I think Ray and Dave Davies showed the world you can write a great song with just four power chords years before Nirvana.



You win the semantics argument. Congrats! 

Nirvana came in at a time when Aqua Net, eye liner, spandex, Floyd Rose equipped super strats, JCM800's and the guitar solo with the over-abundance of pinch harmonic dive bombs (in the already mentioned super strats) ruled the world. Nirvana gave the already ridiculous by then glam rock the big middle finger and showed up with plain t-shirts, beat up jeans, a Fender Mustang, and amps that ranged from Bassmans to solid state Randalls with a $50 Boss DS-1. No Marshall wall, no pedal board, just an amp and a DS-1. 

Unpopular look, unpopular gear, unpopular song structuring, yet they still ruled the world in the early-mid 90's.


----------



## Adwex

Did anyone already mention Kenny Wayne Shepherd?
He was alot better when his name was Stevie Ray Vaughan.


----------



## Relic61

1neeto said:


> You win the semantics argument. Congrats!
> 
> Nirvana came in at a time when Aqua Net, eye liner, spandex, Floyd Rose equipped super strats, JCM800's and the guitar solo with the over-abundance of pinch harmonic dive bombs (in the already mentioned super strats) ruled the world. Nirvana gave the already ridiculous by then glam rock the big middle finger and showed up with plain t-shirts, beat up jeans, a Fender Mustang, and amps that ranged from Bassmans to solid state Randalls with a $50 Boss DS-1. No Marshall wall, no pedal board, just an amp and a DS-1.
> 
> Unpopular look, unpopular gear, unpopular song structuring, yet they still ruled the world in the early-mid 90's.




The importance not to be missed is that Nirvana may have singlehandedly saved us from continuing on this path of gender bended poser rock. I really fvckin hated sometimes, even though I really liked some of the music. Sure there was songs that were good, some really good, but the peer pressure was on, people wanted you to look like lipstick wearin fairy fags & play like EVH & beyond. I stood strong against it but was in constant battle with our bassist back then who was drinkin the WannaBe Kool Aid & thought Poison was the $#!t because they got the putty, & he loved dat putty man. Funny how he was willing to look like a girl to get it huh? ha ha. Oh $#!t was weird back then man.

I was actually relieved that we also had the GnR scene & style because they weren't too feminine & had some fun to play rockers that people loved. Heck, Even Aerosmith was lookin Twisted Sister at the time but Nirvana made it OK to be looking like a heterosexual man again and not a cross dressing tranny! (PC disclaimer) NOT THAT THERE IS ANYTHING WRONG WITH THAT. Well what if there is? What if I didnt happen to like looking like a fag just so a band I was in could get a shot a playing the bigger clubs? I never did give in & we did ok because we were real, we practiced & we kicked ass. I am so glad I can look back with some self respect even if I never 'made it big'.

Yep, Cobain and the boys were a blessing in many ways & I truly appreciated them raising their middle finger to the whole music scene & the clicky pretentious abomination that left me feeling excluded & an outsider. Not only did they bring on the phasing out of glammer girl rock, they did away with the perception of the necessity for an over the top, dive bomb filled assault of gymnastic fingerworks mindblowing guitar solo in every song, regardless of the song. Mandatory over the top solo was expected. Period.

Nirvana made it ok to be who you are, to be a man & look like a man. To have opinions that didn't toe the popular line and the balls to stand out & stand up for being different.

If you can hear me...Thanks Kurt. I think I appreciate you now all these years later more than I ever did when I was rockin that Teen Spirit Album for the first time and feeling that excitement that poured from the speakers. It was simple, it was magic, it was simply magic. Rock in peace.


----------



## blues_n_cues

ALL guitarists are overrated,just ask the singer.


----------



## Soulforger

Randy Rhoads, Jimi Hendrix, and Jeff Beck.

They're all good, I just don't think they are/were as good as all the hype.


----------



## johnfv

_<insert some famous player here>_ sucks! _<insert some other famous player here>_ is god!

silly and boring thread, damn close to open trolling season.


----------



## Amp360

Hearing all this talk about transexual rockers makes me add Diamond Darrell Lance to the list.


----------



## 1neeto

Relic61 said:


> The importance not to be missed is that Nirvana may have singlehandedly saved us from continuing on this path of gender bended poser rock. I really fvckin hated sometimes, even though I really liked some of the music. Sure there was songs that were good, some really good, but the peer pressure was on, people wanted you to look like lipstick wearin fairy fags & play like EVH & beyond. I stood strong against it but was in constant battle with our bassist back then who was drinkin the WannaBe Kool Aid & thought Poison was the $#!t because they got the putty, & he loved dat putty man. Funny how he was willing to look like a girl to get it huh? ha ha. Oh $#!t was weird back then man.
> 
> I was actually relieved that we also had the GnR scene & style because they weren't too feminine & had some fun to play rockers that people loved. Heck, Even Aerosmith was lookin Twisted Sister at the time but Nirvana made it OK to be looking like a heterosexual man again and not a cross dressing tranny! (PC disclaimer) NOT THAT THERE IS ANYTHING WRONG WITH THAT. Well what if there is? What if I didnt happen to like looking like a fag just so a band I was in could get a shot a playing the bigger clubs? I never did give in & we did ok because we were real, we practiced & we kicked ass. I am so glad I can look back with some self respect even if I never 'made it big'.
> 
> Yep, Cobain and the boys were a blessing in many ways & I truly appreciated them raising their middle finger to the whole music scene & the clicky pretentious abomination that left me feeling excluded & an outsider. Not only did they bring on the phasing out of glammer girl rock, they did away with the perception of the necessity for an over the top, dive bomb filled assault of gymnastic fingerworks mindblowing guitar solo in every song, regardless of the song. Mandatory over the top solo was expected. Period.
> 
> Nirvana made it ok to be who you are, to be a man & look like a man. To have opinions that didn't toe the popular line and the balls to stand out & stand up for being different.
> 
> If you can hear me...Thanks Kurt. I think I appreciate you now all these years later more than I ever did when I was rockin that Teen Spirit Album for the first time and feeling that excitement that poured from the speakers. It was simple, it was magic, it was simply magic. Rock in peace.


Amen brother.


----------



## Marshall Gibson

Amp360 said:


> Hearing all this talk about transexual rockers makes me add Diamond Darrell Lance to the list.




What in the hell does this even mean?


----------



## EndGame00

They may be overrated but every single Poison members ****ed more bitches than Cobain can ever imagine in his lifetime...


----------



## Bloodrock

Damn! this thread is still going? Cool.
Kurt Cobain was an amazing songwriter who played guitar to fit his songwriting. He didn't play guitar for the sake of writing great guitar riffs. He wrote the guitar to fit his songs instead of writing songs around guitar riffs, which is one things that made Nirvana a universally great band.

And anyone who thinks Dimebag was overrated in any capacity is a RETARD and needs to go back and listen to their first 4 albums before CFH, because Darrells solos back then were above and beyond most any of the stuff he wrote and recorded after they became a heavier metal band.


----------



## SwampThing

There is entirely too much hate in this thread. It went from being "Who is overrated" to "Who I don't like listening to at this moment"... There is a distinct difference.

Everybody calm your tits.


----------



## sidvicious

SwampThing said:


> There is entirely too much hate in this thread. It went from being "Who is overrated" to "Who I don't like listening to at this moment"... There is a distinct difference.
> 
> Everybody calm your tits.



i tried pointing that out, swamp. didn't stick.

and i've tried calling out those that mention hendrix, clapton, page, and beck, among others. i suggested they offer a replacement at the same time and fame of the fore-mentioned. in other words, who should've been the god in the late 60's and 70's? and why. "why isn't so&so noticed" would be a weak response. give us the gods in place of these guys, during the time they scaled olympus.

so far, no takers.


----------



## SwampThing

sidvicious said:


> i tried pointing that out, swamp. didn't stick.
> 
> and i've tried calling out those that mention hendrix, clapton, page, and beck, among others. i suggested they offer a replacement at the same time and fame of the fore-mentioned. in other words, who should've been the god in the late 60's and 70's? and why. "why isn't so&so noticed" would be a weak response. give us the gods in place of these guys, during the time they scaled olympus.
> 
> so far, no takers.




It's all good my man but I hope I am not the only one that took notice that just about EVERY SINGLE GUITARIST has been named on this thread. Not all but quite a large few. So you know what that means? All guitarists are overrated 

Or.......

Its entirely subjective.


----------



## 1neeto

SwampThing said:


> It's all good my man but I hope I am not the only one that took notice that just about EVERY SINGLE GUITARIST has been named on this thread. Not all but quite a large few. So you know what that means? All guitarists are overrated
> 
> Or.......
> 
> Its entirely subjective.



Yep. I took offense about Kurt Cobain because there's absolutely nothing overrated about him. I can't think of a single overrated guitar player because just about every guitar player mentioned in this thread is/was great at whatever made them famous. It's no accident that Eric Clapton is who he is today, even though he's nicknamed "slow hand". Slash? He played a LP through a Marshall instead of a Jackson or Kramer, and his style and tone have proven to be timeless. Hate on Slash? Really? Calling virtuosos like Satriani, Vai, EVH, and Petrucci overrated shows nothing but envy. Really, they have a technical level of playing that most people in this forum will never achieve, and that must bruise quite a few egos.

A more interesting thread would be underrated guitarists. Because there's countless of great guitar players that totally slipped under the radar.


----------



## Relic61

Exactly. Calling anybody over-rated is just a silly concept & asking for problems to happen in the thread that entertains the notion. I"m frankly surprised it has been kept as calm & friendly as it has remained despite the turns.

Who are we to call anybody over rated and, who really cares what we think? Really. Anybody give a real fvck about what anybody else thinks on this? ......? I didn't think so. So then, what is the point of this thread if not for us to come to the understanding that the concept of finding somebody over-rated is a subjective waste of time that matters to nobody else but the people who can see & feel such things about other musicians. Fvck dat $#!t. Everybody is everybody. Stop judging others & enjoy some music will ya?!?!


----------



## hazmat7719

I am not defending Kurt Cobain, how did he become over rated? I was surprised to see him make the list. I am going to nominate Kenny Wayne Shepheard.


----------



## Biddlin

Joe Bonamassa, John Mayer and Derek Trucks are all a lot more hat, than cattle.
Biddlin ;>)/


----------



## Bflat5

SonVolt said:


> That's like judging Bruce Springsteen as a guitarist.



Comparing Cobain to Springsteen is like comparing Alvin to Theodor.


----------



## Wiseblood

DirtySteve said:


>



Black album and before he played what was needed and what made sense for the song. Which is what your job is as a lead player.

But nowa days his playing is a joke.


----------



## Relic61

Wiseblood said:


> Black album and before he played what was needed and what made sense for the song. Which is what your job is as a lead player.
> 
> But nowa days his playing is a joke.




I'm guessing he's laughing all the way to the bank.

I would like to hear one of his leads that you are using to make this judgement tho. I'm not a big Metallica head & only have/had a couple albums so I really cant say one way or the other yet, I'm curious to hear something that he put on an actual album that is a joke.

Hey, jokes happen.


----------



## yladrd61

Steven Seagal ROTFL 8)


----------



## Crawford354

Relic61 said:


> The really sad part is when you think about todays players & the lack of amazing guitarists. Lately it has caused me to reflect upon the very real possibility that being a good guitar player & making awesome guitar based music could be a passing phase that is on it's way to fading away.
> 
> Back in the day, playing music & learning guitar appealed to youngsters & music pulled them in & gave them the desire to learn and master an instrument. I am afraid this has been lost on today's tech savy overstimulated generation. Lets face it, getting good & being competent on guitar isn't a quick and easy thing to do. It takes a level of commitment and a sincere love for music to get you where you gotta be.
> 
> When I was young, lots of kids played music & had bands. I don't see that happening today at the same level as then. Why? Because it's hard? Video games are more fun? Easier? Doesn't hurt my fingers? Isn't as frustrating? My God! What has happened? Will the day of the amazing guitarist soon enough be a thing of the past?
> 
> Maybe that new guitar learning software 'Rocksmith' can resuscitate this once admired & now all but abandoned art-form. OK, I'm being dramatic, but none the less, the point seems very realistic & the trend away from lots of people being musicians & or trying to be good guitarists is undeniable.
> 
> I think guitarist, good guitarists, should just be enjoyed & appreciated for what they do. I really have no need in life to judge or compare. I Just take whatever enjoyment I can from the music I hear. When I get antsy, (tired or bored) I move on. I never fed into the one is better than the other, this guy sucks, this guys is better way of looking at music or musicians. Most who have made it to some level of success usually have enough playing ability to be enjoyed & appreciated. I never could say Clapton was better than Paige or Hendrix was better than whoever because I always seen them as each having something of their own value to offer & give.
> 
> While 'better than' or 'over-rated' can surely be argued to death, it is all subjective to the individual. It smacks me as being petty & judgmental. Yah, I've been guilty of it myself but that doesn't make such judgments less so. Everybody has their own to offer & every individual has the right to like what they like. That's the way I like to look at it. But it's also fine if people have opinions or want to categorize 'better thans' & 'over-rated'. Maybe I'm just realizing I'm a live n let live hippie, or something man.
> 
> So just enjoy man. Peace.



Think about how the young people who play guitar feel about this. I wish everyone else also played


----------



## yladrd61

This thread seems to be more about guitarists you don't like than about them being overated. There are some mentioned that are totally overated and others who are recognized by some as the best who ever played.


----------



## Karloff

yladrd61 said:


> This thread seems to be more about guitarists you don't like than about them being overated. There are some mentioned that are totally overated and others who are recognized by some as the best who ever played.



when i started this thread, i didnt word it correctly, what i should have said was "which guitarists, that you hear others rave about, don't do a thing for you?", instead of ever including the word "Overated". there are guitarists that i dont like their style of playing at all, but i recognize their talent and contribution to their genre. I should have worded it differently. one of my favorite quotes is from Dickey Betts. "I don't get into discussions about who's better than who. Cuz when it comes to playing guitar, no ones keepin score"


----------



## yladrd61

Trying to get a group of guitarists to agree on anything is kind of like herding cats LOL


----------



## Relic61

Karloff said:


> when i started this thread, i didnt word it correctly, what i should have said was "which guitarists, that you hear others rave about, don't do a thing for you?", instead of ever including the word "Overated". there are guitarists that i dont like their style of playing at all, but i recognize their talent and contribution to their genre. I should have worded it differently. one of my favorite quotes is from Dickey Betts. "I don't get into discussions about who's better than who. Cuz when it comes to playing guitar, no ones keepin score"




It is one of those type of questions isn't it? I'm glad to hear that you even feel the way you do & are saying you shouldn't have used the word 'overrated' in it. That totally clarifies how you see this and aligns our feelings on the subject. It aint no competition & I like Dickey's quote, 'no one is keeping score'. I do think it takes a certain level of awareness & maybe even maturity to realize & come to terms with that. 

Hell, we all got drive & want to be good or even the best sometimes, especially when it comes to playing something like the guitar. And while a little ego & attitude has often gone hand & hand with performers, it has always been the humble, grateful & gracious musician that has resonated with a true admiration in my life.

It really comes down to being able to; connect through musical expression, convey feeling / emotion, & conjuring mood that brings the meaning & appreciation out in each of us. So long as somebody derives meaning from someone's playing, I really have no business putting it down just because I might not enjoy it or enjoy it as much as some one else's playing. The whole "better than' idea has always struck me as a wrong way to look at music ever since I was young & started playing.

As Lennon sang, "Whatever gets ya through the night, it's alright, it's alright".


----------



## blues_n_cues

usually the "guitarist of the year" or #1 all time great in Rolling Stone is a dead giveaway that they're overrated. 
Jack White & Kurt Cobain beat out Satch,EVH,McAlpine,& a slew of others for a few years...I mean C'MON MAN!!!!!


----------



## Karloff

Relic61 said:


> It is one of those type of questions isn't it? I'm glad to hear that you even feel the way you do & are saying you shouldn't have used the word 'overrated' in it. That totally clarifies how you see this and aligns our feelings on the subject. It aint no competition & I like Dickey's quote, 'no one is keeping score'. I do think it takes a certain level of awareness & maybe even maturity to realize & come to terms with that.
> 
> Hell, we all got drive & want to be good or even the best sometimes, especially when it comes to playing something like the guitar. And while a little ego & attitude has often gone hand & hand with performers, it has always been the humble, grateful & gracious musician that has resonated with a true admiration in my life.
> 
> It really comes down to being able to; connect through musical expression, convey feeling / emotion, & conjuring mood that brings the meaning & appreciation out in each of us. So long as somebody derives meaning from someone's playing, I really have no business putting it down just because I might not enjoy it or enjoy it as much as some one else's playing. The whole "better than' idea has always struck me as a wrong way to look at music ever since I was young & started playing.
> 
> As Lennon sang, "Whatever gets ya through the night, it's alright, it's alright".



well said...


----------



## SG~GUY

for me it's easy,..i was born in 1965,..influenced by the 70's stuff,...lived through the 80's,..(and it really did suck for the most part,..well ,.....except for the WOMEN!!!!,..loved them big haired, mini-skirt wearing 80's babes!)

there is a huge difference between a

"GUITARIST" ie technicaly proficient,..practices his scales as fast as he can everyday ,...so he can become a shredder,...so he can impress other shredder's like a good shredder should do!....


"MUSICIAN" it don't matter what instrument he plays,..but it's all about the end result,...the song!!!,...(I know,...crazy thought huh!)

example #1-"guitarist" yingvai (or insert any shredder in here)
#2-"musician" IOMMI

nuff said,...nothing left to see here,..move along,...move along


----------



## Crawford354

Oh I'll also add keith Richards to this list. While he is a great songwriter, I think he gets more credit than is due. He also said Jimmy Page is Led Zeppelin, and that the other members didn't have much talent which makes no sense...


----------



## Cold Warrior

DirtySteve said:


>



It's been self evident for so long that he's a dwarf among giants that I needed this reminder. When I hear kids talking about great guitarists, then throwing name in the middle, I just kind of......

I think his playing on the '80s Metallica albums was very good, although he forgot how to play after that.  He hasn't done a single thing that interests me in over 20 years....


----------



## Cold Warrior

Relic61 said:


> I'm guessing he's laughing all the way to the bank.
> 
> I would like to hear one of his leads that you are using to make this judgement tho. I'm not a big Metallica head & only have/had a couple albums so I really cant say one way or the other yet, I'm curious to hear something that he put on an actual album that is a joke.



You could say Miley laughs all the way to the bank, but that doesn't earn my respect. 

And listen to almost any wah cliche ridden solo after the Black album to just before Death Magnetic and you'll hear plenty of jokes. Talk about getting stuck in a rut creatively.


----------



## EndGame00

And to think Kirk took some lessons from Satriani regarding phrasing and lead harmonies, and he still has not evolved since then...


----------



## Relic61

Hey I'm not defending the guy by any stretch. I really don't have or know any material after the Black album which I thought was both a good album and had appropriate guitar playing just as the Album before it. It is just hard to think someone can be filling stadiums and playing with the sheer frequency of the schedule they have had over the years & it left him un inspired to excell or something like that & now he's not meeting his potential or is over rated hasbeen or neverwas er whatever. I really wish you could have given some song names. Like I said, I don't really know their stuff and do not even know any album names after the Black Album. But I guess I'm not missing nothing right?

I guess I'll waste some time Googling just to satisfy my curiosity at this point because beyond that I could GAF ya know. I'll report back. 

Maybe.


----------



## Relic61

So CW, I decided to listen to the 1996 release 'Load' to get an idea about Kirk playing not meeting expectations and to possibly give me an idea why you find him overrated after the Black Album. Hopefully the Load album typifies his playing on other albums and isn't a one off fluke. Here's what I thought of each songs lead playing with some occasional additional commentary thrown in where pertainent.

*Aint My Bitch* Metal Slide? WTF? So fvckin what. Nothing new here. Sorry Kirk. Strike 1.

*2x4 *Lead starts monotonously, breaks into easy playin with once again, nothin groundbreaking to hear here.
*
The House that Jack Built* Cool and moody if not repetitive. Then we get some nice talk box vocalization that suit the mood nicely. No epic lead work but some way cool effect heard here.

*Until It Sleeps* Surprise! I've heard this before. We have some song appropriate didling going on yet, nothing to amaze most fellow guitarists.

*King Nothing* I've heard this too. Well at least he's reaching for something here and it sounds like some old Kirk shining through on guitar! Best lead work on the album so far yet if talking technical finger movement & rockin out & not simply being like the previously heard samples of appropriately song fitting colorized diddling?

*Hero of the day* Holy $#!t! 3 songs I've heard before. Lead is melodic and simple as well as short. Does it even count?

*Bleeding Me* There's some old Kirk doing his thing. Sounds good, song appropriate yet, nothing really new, groundbreaking or amazing. Getting yer point CW.

*Cure* Yet Again, just song appropriate diddling. Good enough but I am beginning to consider your right about this and I too feel the disappointment. We really are expecting more aren't we?

*Poor Twisted Me *Nasty ripper that starts with feeling & promise yet doesn't fly & soar to a fitting ending. 

*Wasting My Hate *Wasting my time! No lead.

*Mama Said* No lead playing is what Mama must have said!

*Thorn Within* Short melodic chromatic bleh

*Ronnie *Some nice riffin in the background but no actual lead breakout solo part.

*The Outlaw Torn* Wow! I made it through the album. I thought about giving up with 6 songs still to go but hung in there. Great intro & a way cool song. Quite different from the others yet undeniably Metallica. Awesome. This must be good live. Kirks lead part? Volume swells and repeated idea lines then BaaM! He's Diggin in & really reaching for it. Nothing technically amazing but I could feel it take off and fly for a while. Nice Guitar tones too. Great bass playing & it was cool that they hung back like they did making the build ups & explosions of power really work their magic.

Well CW, I totally see your point. I'm not going to play Devils advocate & say his playing fit each song & most bands would be more than happy to have their guitarists do such a job. I will say on most songs except for the last one ''The Outlaw Torn" we could easily be justified in wanting more from him in the 'amazing guitar player' department. He just doesn't do anything awe-inspiring or jaw dropping like he once did. I think he is totally playing the song at hand but even still, it just doesn't rise to the expectations of an amazing guitarist. How much of that was an intentional shift? A producers prefference? Kirk not feeling it or seeing the need for amazing lead guitar work? WTF knows? Something changed fo sho.

I hate to say I wasted my night Googling & YouTubing Metallica schtuff because I really did like this "load" album from '96 and was surprised to find I had heard some of this material without realizing it. And, It was the four power members that had just took the world by storm and had recently defined themselves as a genuine Super Group kick-ass band. I'm not sure if this was actually the first album after touring for all those years after the Black Album or not but if I was, I expected bigger better and more epic songs along the lines of 'The Outlaw Torn' & 'Until It Sleeps' for instance.

Oh by the way, who is this Miley guitarist you mentioned making lots of money but not liking and is he worse or better than Kirk?


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## okgb

Allot of them have a moment , and the time is gone . The one thing that some people do is a good thing, sometimes you grow out of it . trouble is the kids need their own identity 
and therefore their own hero's 
I love schenker [ better with mogg than not ]
Zoro from Metallica won the lottery , must have been non threatening that got him the gig
and somebody take away his wah wah ........please


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## LPMarshall hack

I can't believe all the Kirk hate. I'm no Metallica fan, but if he sucks, I must be really really really really really really really bad.


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## AllenCollinsExplorer

Kirk Hammett, Kurt Cobain, Bruce Springsteen, Keith Richards, Jimi Hendrix, Jack White, Jimmy Page. To name a few...


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## LMP2204

So if somebody is laughing all the way to the bank, does that make them a good Player? Not always. However I find money has nothing to do with talent. Some of the best musicians and artists often don't get the credit they deserve and don't get "discovered" until they have passed away while the right haircut and overwhored talentless sellouts get it all... Aint it a shame? Regardless of talent or status of income anybody who picks up an instrument and atleast puts effort into it is good. It might not be my cup of tea but atleast I can hear the effort. 
But if I had to pick it would be somebody like YJM or Vai, I understand that some people like to look at a guitar and think of the Bonneville salt flats and try to break speed records of previous competitors. But to me guitar isn't a competition, its not guitar hero. its a tool of transferring human emotion into moving vibrations and sounds. Senseless speed noodling is the tailgating community of guitar playing.you can paint your face, take your shirt off and scream for your favorite team but in the end nobody wins. You are just stroking your own ego.


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## Cold Warrior

I recall when "Load"  came out, me and a few friends got a few 12-packs and popped in the CD to listen in the background (yeah, a listening party I suppose). We kept waiting for the "good" songs, which surely must be kept until the end....but they never came. At the end of the CD, we all looked at each other and kind of...... 

We wondered if we were drunk and needed a 2nd listen to get it, so we all tried it at least once more, but it wouldn't take. That began a 15+ year saga of pure suckage for Metallica. They partially redeemed themselves with DM, but honestly, Load was a freakin' funeral.  We Kirk tried to speed it up a bit for DM, it only reminds you of how thin his tone is and how weak his vibrato is. And then there is the complete lack of dynamics in the production, but that's another thread...


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## Dmann

I think any armchair weekend warrior "nobody" judging the "somebody's" is over-rated. It seems like that's all guitar player's do anymore is pick apart the greats and proclaim they weren't nothing special....... yet, they are the reason ALL of us are here today.

I especially like all the hate on Kirk Hammet.... Obviously everyone here is a better player, and better writer, has sold more albums, has played more sold out concerts, etc.....

ya... that's what I thought.


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## sidvicious

actually i need to eat some shit on one of the names i mentioned.

andy summers.

i went back and listened to some deeper cuts and his playing is very good.

i think i was bit by the "not my thing" bug when i listed him. at the time, when the 70's turned to the 80's there was the huge plastic revolution and i generally lumped the police in with that. summers was getting a lot of props as a player and was such a non-fan that i didn't listen to anything but the hits. some of the hits are very good, but not much by way of great guitar.

anyways, mea culpa. i was wrong on this.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

Cold Warrior said:


> We Kirk tried to speed it up a bit for DM, it only reminds you of how thin his tone is and how weak his vibrato is. And then there is the complete lack of dynamics in the production, but that's another thread...



Even back in the day, I thought Kirk's vibrato was pretty bad. 

Shit, even Het has a better vibrato than Kirk. When he does solo, which he rarely does, he's not all about speed. He's got a slower thing going on. 

Also, I can't get into Death Magnetic. It's a poorly-produced snoozefest with only 2 good songs.


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## Tone Slinger

I think ALL guitarists are overated AND underated,depending on the situation. When a guitarist is playing and not really feeling it, I could care less about thier 'technical execution/chops', but, by contrast, when a guitarist IS feeling it, I could care less about bummed/missed notes.

When a good jam is happening,everybody will get thier inspired moments in.

But really it all goes back to the joke,"How many guitarists does it take to screw a light bulb in ? answer: 4 ....... one to screw it in and 3 to say they could have done it better "


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## dsn716

Cold Warrior said:


> I recall when "Load"  came out, me and a few friends got a few 12-packs and popped in the CD to listen in the background (yeah, a listening party I suppose). We kept waiting for the "good" songs, which surely must be kept until the end....but they never came. At the end of the CD, we all looked at each other and kind of......
> 
> We wondered if we were drunk and needed a 2nd listen to get it, so we all tried it at least once more, but it wouldn't take. That began a 15+ year saga of pure suckage for Metallica. They partially redeemed themselves with DM, but honestly, Load was a freakin' funeral.  We Kirk tried to speed it up a bit for DM, it only reminds you of how thin his tone is and how weak his vibrato is. And then there is the complete lack of dynamics in the production, but that's another thread...


 
"... And Justice for All" was the last thing Metallica released that was worth spending money on. It was hands-down the LAST great Metallica record. The release of the Black album was the official end of the mighty Metallica.


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## anitoli

dsn716 said:


> "... And Justice for All" was the last thing Metallica released that was worth spending money on. It was hands-down the LAST great Metallica record. The release of the Black album was the official end of the mighty Metallica.


 
Yup.The official end.


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## mott555

As far as I'm concerned, there is no Metallica between AJFA and Death Magnetic. They took a 20-year break.

I finally went and actually listened to Load. Not a bad album, but not great. And it certainly doesn't feel or sound like Metallica.


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## Lyv2Ryd

Mosher Zone said:


> Eric Clapton



OK. Clapton doesn't have the most incredible chops, but a lot of his early licks became standard rock n roll riffs in all rock since then. He's a pioneer, he influenced many. I disagree with him on the list.

Now, the Edge well...


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## Relic61

Feel free to talk $#!T as I say to this thread 'GoodBye' 'Im unsunscribing from future notifications'. Nothing against anyone or anything posted. I've been thinking about this for a while.

Why? Some might ask? Because I just don't care about who people think are overrated guitarists. As others have already mentioned, the whole idea of a professional & successful guitarist being overrated is just silliness. Small minded WGAF nonsense. Everbody is everybody. Each doing their own thing. Music isn't a competition and to think of anybody as overrated is fvckin stupidassbull$#!T.

This may sound $#!TTY but there are just better things to do with our time than this. Like practice or find a frikin life.

Have a nice day.


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## lester&marshall

Nigel Tufnel and Keith Partridge....


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## johnfv

lester&marshall said:


> Nigel Tufnel and Keith Partridge....



And THE most overated guitarist is.... Lancelot Link
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kz7EGY-iHR8]Lancelot Link and the Evolution Revolution - Wild Dreams (Jelly Beans) OFFICIAL - YouTube[/ame]


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## Coronado

diesect20022000 said:


> yeah in the "30 and up" crowd. every "twenty-something" I know is on his NUTS guitar or otherwise player. every single damn kid out here is all about him. the last group I tried to play with......yeesh. so yeah the 30 and up crowd knows better but these are the "line 6 spider 4's are the best amp ever!" crowd as well.......and yes they REALLY are, i'm not even exaggerating this in the least.
> 
> I let my last rhythm player who loved tremonti (and so did my "drummer") use my Framus modified dragon (cobra specs) and he kept whining about his spider and still does. I know another ten of these weirdos.....


 
I'm embarrassed to say that when I heard my first Alter Bridge song (addicted to pain), I was blown away. I was like _DAMN_, who is this guy?! He is amazing!!! So, lets hop on the ol' superhighway and lets see who this super awesome... ah shit, its Tremonti.


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## Karloff

johnfv said:


> And THE most overated guitarist is.... Lancelot Link
> Lancelot Link and the Evolution Revolution - Wild Dreams (Jelly Beans) OFFICIAL - YouTube



What ? are you crazy ? now i'm pissed... no one disses' Lance and gets away with it... thems fightin' words


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## V-Type

I can see CC Deville and Kerry King. Meh.
Mayer? sure.
How's about Zakk?
I know this is a Marshall forum but Zakk has been abysmal for a very long time.
Everytime someone says how bad ass he is I look up the last ten years of youtubes and the guy is horrid.
He has some sweet Marshalls yet its mud, over chorus city everytime.



But he is the king of pinch and squeal.


Another overrated guy imo is Phil Collen.
Somehow this guy kept a top lead guitar job yet plays lead very much like a rhythm guitarist.
I love his Jackson sig but still wonder How he got a sig vs lots of other guys.


Dont get me wrong I like all music too a degree but some folks are quite,quite lucky they even made it.


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## sidvicious

V-Type said:


> I can see CC Deville and Kerry King. Meh.
> Mayer? sure.
> How's about Zakk?
> I know this is a Marshall forum but Zakk has been abysmal for a very long time.
> Everytime someone says how bad ass he is I look up the last ten years of youtubes and the guy is horrid.
> He has some sweet Marshalls yet its mud, over chorus city everytime.
> 
> 
> 
> But he is the king of pinch and squeal.
> 
> 
> Another overrated guy imo is Phil Collen.
> Somehow this guy kept a top lead guitar job yet plays lead very much like a rhythm guitarist.
> I love his Jackson sig but still wonder How he got a sig vs lots of other guys.
> 
> 
> Dont get me wrong I like all music too a degree but some folks are quite,quite lucky they even made it.



a comment on collen.

he's hooked up w a black chick to do some delta blues. its been hyped quite a bit. sooooo, i took a listen.

very, VERY generic and totally uninspiring. really bad on the other end of the scale. i was never a super-fan of dl, and i basically left them after pyro. didn't like the hit phase stuff.

but the collen blues stuff is very bad. no chops at all. very surprising. you'd figure the guy would learn a thing or two in a major band.


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## YetiVanMarshall

Slash - If someone could point me to some tasteful guitar work such as gilmour on animals, I would greatly appreciate to hear it and that may change my Slash discomfort.

Thx


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## LPMarshall hack

Anyone better than me is over rated...which is every guitar player in the world.


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## MarshallMark

Malmsteen, Petrucci, Michael Angel Battio or whatever his name is, anyone who shreds by the numbers, modes, scales, and is pretentious about it.


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## Karloff

i can't believe this thread is still going


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## Tone Slinger

Tone Slinger said:


> I think ALL guitarists are overated AND underated,depending on the situation. When a guitarist is playing and not really feeling it, I could care less about thier 'technical execution/chops', but, by contrast, when a guitarist IS feeling it, I could care less about bummed/missed notes.
> 
> When a good jam is happening,everybody will get thier inspired moments in.
> 
> But really it all goes back to the joke,"How many guitarists does it take to screw a light bulb in ? answer: 4 ....... one to screw it in and 3 to say they could have done it better "


 

I may not personally care for many thats been listed here, but I recognize that others do like them. I'd say that if a begginer was praised too much then 'maybe' they would be OVERATED, otherwise I'll stick to my initial response concerning those that are at an 'established' playing level. (which I guess could also raise the question of 'What is an established playing level?)


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