# Struggling with AC/DC's Back in Black.



## SoloDallas

Well, long story short: after literally years of searching (badly) and rehearsing, I think I have found the amps - or the amps types - used in Back in Black by the brothers. 
Now, that album - Back in Black - is no easy task, despite it may sound simple, it ain't easy. But this, you - reader - probably knew already.

My ultimate attempt is and has been, the replication of Back in Black tone.
I have begun a long time ago, but only during the last two months I feel I have made progress to an interesting point.

Now, here's my take (over the original song). Please have a listen if you like:

SoundClick artist: SoloDallas - page with MP3 music downloads

The amplifiers I am using now are several late '70s JMPs. 
Here, in this sound file, a 1976 JMP Super Lead has been used with a 1971 Gibson SG standard for rhythm and a 1967 SG Standard for the solo. 

I need your ears. 
Here's the equalization curves I used (I used an Audio Technica AT4047 close on AXIS to the cone of a 1969 4x12 Marshall Cabinet with original greenbacks in it, which I think were used as well on the original recording; I am waiting on another cabinet with G12H30s from 1973 to try and see differences):

Lead tone:




Settings for the head for the lead were:
Presence 0, Bass 2, mids 10, treble 2, Volume I 10, guitar volume 8.
I tried other settings - like treble higher and mids lower, but it simply won't cut it. Please state your opinion if different.

Rhythm curve:




Settings for the rhythm were: presence 0, bass 8, mids 4, treble 6, volume 8, guitar volume 7.

What do YOU think? How would you equalize? I worked hard on all this.
Frankly, while I think I am almost there on the rhythm parts, I feel the solo needs another curve or other settings. Help.

Thanks for reading,

SD

PS

I have a site working on all of this, here's the post link:
1976 Marshall Super Lead MkII & Back in Black

(needs registration)


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## LPMarshall hack

Holy hell! Is that your guitar in the song? Sounds just like the original song. Great job man.


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## SoloDallas

Yes it's me (thank you). 
I have been after this one for so long that I am now unstoppable. 
I have been working on this for a long time. Decades, probably. 

Back in Black is my favorite song of all times, and the album is my number one rock album of all times.


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## thrawn86

I am very impressed. And far from a critic, but the only (very very very minor) deviation I hear is that it seems just a _touch bright_ in the rythym during the first half of the song.....probably just me! Wow, this is great. Thanks for sharing!


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## SoloDallas

Thanks Thrawn and no, it's not you: it's too bright. I am listening to it right now with headphones. I did the equalization after a day of attempts and my ears were fried. Too bright. The solo instead is plain wrong. Not a completely different sound, but not close either. I am doing something wrong. 
I know Angus used a different head for solos. Truth is, I think he used MVs for solos and/or 50 watters (instead of a 100 watter that I know he used to rhythm).

Will try again tomorrow


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## bulldozer1984

Struggling with AC/DC's Back in Black ?? Hmm na dont think so mate.. Sounds real good mate your hard work has paid off !


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## chuckharmonjr

DUDE! DAYUMN! Bright schmight....that was absolutely fantastic! Very Very well done!


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## SoloDallas

bulldozer1984 said:


> Struggling with AC/DC's Back in Black ?? Hmm na dont think so mate.. Sounds real good mate your hard work has paid off !




Well... IF it comes directly from Down Under...  Thanks mate.


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## NewReligion

LOL, that was awesome. At least Angus knows where he can find his settings now. Well done (Tips his hat).

David 

David C. Hopkins on MySpace Music - Free Streaming MP3s, Pictures & Music Downloads


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## SoloDallas

Huh thank you guys. I don't mean to play the false part of the humble at all costs, but it's been so long for me that I am striving to get there. I mean, there. 

The solo tone sounds off to me. I tried and tried. Any suggestions, given the EQ curve? 
To me, it seems like the solo tone on the record is "rounded".


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## NewReligion

SoloDallas said:


> Huh thank you guys. I don't mean to play the false part of the humble at all costs, but it's been so long for me that I am striving to get there. I mean, there.
> 
> The solo tone sounds off to me. I tried and tried. Any suggestions, given the EQ curve?
> To me, it seems like the solo tone on the record is "rounded".



Man, honestly, sometimes especially in solo's it is really hard to nail the tone because a lot of it is in the aggressive attitude and hands at the moment. Not to mention that Angus very well may have had half dead strings saturated in sweat at the time. You just don't know and can't recreate everything. Let me put it another way. Maybe Angus could not nail the tone either with out the very same beat up strings, half baked tubes and de-magnatising pickups that are now 30 years older than when he first recorded it. I applaude you and your effort. To get any closer could be, well, a bit obsessive. But if we are to obsess then tone is the right subject matter. Best to you and well done again.

David


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## SoloDallas

Thanks Dave! Words of wisdom. But I am obsessed. I will go further. I will try. It's been a long ride (hit at 10 years old, now 42, been trying, researching, studying and amassing gear for... over 25 years. It's too late for me, abandon me here  )


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## drriff

Dallas, that seriously KICKED ASS!!! I am not even that big of an ACDC fan and I thought you did a fantastic job!


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## NewReligion

SoloDallas said:


> Thanks Dave! Words of wisdom. But I am obsessed. I will go further. I will try. It's been a long ride (hit at 10 years old, now 42, been trying, researching, studying and amassing gear for... over 25 years. It's too late for me, abandon me here  )



Carry on Sir, I respect determination. Seems to be a better word than Obsess, lol.


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## Adwex

SoloDallas said:


> Huh thank you guys. I don't mean to play the false part of the humble at all costs, but it's been so long for me that I am striving to get there. I mean, there.
> 
> The solo tone sounds off to me. I tried and tried. Any suggestions, given the EQ curve?
> To me, it seems like the solo tone on the record is "rounded".



First of all, great job. I've heard/seen some of your videos, you nail Angus perfectly.

Regarding the EQ, I detect a little too much in the high mids, as compared to the original I can hear in my head. Couldn't tell you which frequency, but "high mids" seems in the ballpark.


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## RiverRatt

Damn! Great job! I think you're going to have to get Mutt Lange to get any closer. 99.9999999% of the population OF GUITAR PLAYERS wouldn't know that ain't the real thing.


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## LPMarshall hack

RiverRatt said:


> Damn! Great job! I think you're going to have to get Mutt Lange to get any closer. 99.9999999% of the population OF GUITAR PLAYERS wouldn't know that ain't the real thing.



Yeah when the first chords rang out, I thought it was the CD version.


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## chuckharmonjr

Uh gentlemen?...Listen closer one more time. The CD was playing along at the same time. He has it nailed so perfectly it really sounds one and the same.


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## thrawn86

chuckharmonjr said:


> Uh gentlemen?...Listen closer one more time. The CD was playing along at the same time. He has it nailed so perfectly it really sounds one and the same.



I knew he was using it as the backing track.


SoloDallas said:


> Thanks Thrawn and no, it's not you: it's too bright. I am listening to it right now with headphones. I did the equalization after a day of attempts and my ears were fried. Too bright. The solo instead is plain wrong. Not a completely different sound, but not close either. I am doing something wrong.
> I know Angus used a different head for solos. Truth is, I think he used MVs for solos and/or 50 watters (instead of a 100 watter that I know he used to rhythm).
> 
> Will try again tomorrow



And it sounded great; the solo is, of course, going to be off because, let's face it: Even the best can't fully _copy_ a solo.....too much going on there to grab every tiny nuance.....what you've done is incredible. If it was played with the solo phased out in the background, it would blow our minds. That's probably what you think is 'plain wrong'. It might actually be a tad 'dark', but beyond that, there is NOTHING you've struggled with here.....you nailed it.

We All Applaud your incredible effort.


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## SoloDallas

I need to thank you all guys. You were more generous to me than myself.


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## SoloDallas

So, 
I adjusted slightly the treble side of the rhythm part, and replayed the solos.
A serious guy would post the song AND the parts singled out. 
So that's what I am doing now:

Whole song:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=896094&songID=9765770
Single parts:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=896094&songID=9765771


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## jensbrix

Honestly, this is the best nailings of a tone I've ever heard.


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## SoloDallas

jensbrix said:


> Honestly, this is the best nailings of a tone I've ever heard.



Thank you!


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## PaoloJM

The tone is very close for just a laptop listen.
I'll listen properly on monitors later. Great playing too!

One thing I would say up front is that the ProTools EQ curves seem very extreme, indicating to me that the source isn't as close as it should be.
Did you mean to swap the LF, LMF and MF in the rhythm EQ? I can't hear the lows properly on my laptop to judge but I'd imagine that's not the "intended" way to use the EQ.

Have you tried miking with a SM57 on axis just off the centre of the cone and about 1" from the cloth? The 57 should naturally capture more upper midz. Check the respective freq response curves for the AT and 57.
Blend this with the AT4047 condenser positioned further back in the room, but make sure you're in phase. This should add depth and life to the tone.
I'm pretty that's how they tracked guitars; 57 up close and a condenser further back in the room.

At the end of the day your results are very good from what I can hear so far and that's all that really counts. Ideally the source should be closer without requiring the extreme EQ, the rhythm EQ especially is very extreme.
EQs with extreme settings like that start introducing their own tone and phasing into the blend.


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## SoloDallas

Paolo,
many thanks for this response. Yes I know, it really is an extreme EQ.
Paolo, Tony Platt (recording engineer for BiB) used two condensers. Either one U87 and one U67 or two U67s (he mentions them as such in interviews). It's documented (I have articles - reproducing actual articles on Solodallas > Classic Rock music community. Guitar & gear reviews, Guitar video tutorials, Performance Videos). 
Indeed as you say, one should be close, the other one, far. So far, I only used one AT4047 up close. I received my other AT the other day and will try with two mikes tomorrow. 
Tony Platt mentions the fact that in the guitars signal path, EQ was used right away before going to tape. I assume there was further Eq'ing later on, then mastering. A lot of processing went on into Back in Black (as an album) and this may be why everyone strives a lot to try and emulate it (not considering that it is a given that Platt had terrific ears - and so did Mutt Lange) and captured right from the start great guitar tones.

I am particularly into those "nasal" frequencies that are clearly audible in that album. That sense of "airy" guitars, "hollowness" and so on. My research brought me to get the same amps from the same period and use vintage cabinets. 
Still, with the AT right there on axis on either speaker cone, I had to perform that equalization (I am a novice though; you probably could have reached the same results without having to boost those frequencies; I wonder if I am overlapping any, etc.).

Let me thank you again for such technical comment. It's what I was looking for.
I will try and re-eq at least the rhythm guitar, though I know I spent countless hours trying and that curve was the only one that came close. 
PS
you can also hear the guitars only tracks, I'd appreciate if you did.

Fil


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## gtrman

I thought I had a good AC/DC tone on my 79 JMP ... but I guess I wasn't even close 
Great sound/tone and keep it up ... who cares if its somewhat obsessive.
At least it's beeing obsessive about something positive ... MARSHALL !


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## SoloDallas

gtrman said:


> I thought I had a good AC/DC tone on my 79 JMP ... but I guess I wasn't even close
> Great sound/tone and keep it up ... who cares if its somewhat obsessive.
> At least it's beeing obsessive about something positive ... MARSHALL !



Why shouldn't you be even close? We're using the same amp. Because of this song/record, I developed a passion for JMPs. 
Obsession... isn't everyone obsessed with something in this world, anyway (yes, they are bro'). Be it sex, money, fitness, politics, whatever... exactly as you stated, at least _we_ are Marshall obsessed.
I am AC/DC obsessed. 1974 to 1981 AC/DC obsessed. 

Why, one may wonder (no Fil, nobody gives a rat's ass - I understand!).
Because THAT is rock and roll.

THANKS


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## SoloDallas

BTW, this is my laboratory. 
On top of that MV JMP ('79) now sits the JMP SL (1976) I played this with:


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## Australian

SoloDallas said:


> BTW, this is my laboratory.
> On top of that MV JMP ('79) now sits the JMP SL (1976) I played this with:



I'm surprised noone has cottoned on to the fact that you are Angus Young. 

But seriously, can I just be a little bit picky? A bit too much gain/OD in the solo it bites more when Angus plays it, and especially in the riff just before the solo starts had too much gain/overdrive.


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## SoloDallas

Of course you can be picky. I'm exposing myself to use your ears. 
Yes. I concur, it may be a bit too driven. I was in fact striving for a particular "pick attack" sound that I hear on the record, and wasn't able to duplicate it. So I put everything on 10! But it's attenuated a lot (the amp head, that is). I used a power break to attenuate this beast. Being able to full blast it would likely allow me to drive the speakers more, and less so the amp. 

Love your screen name


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## Moose Lewis

You say this was played over top of the original... do you have the separates, or are you literally playing over the original cut? Would make a huge difference.

Throwing in my unqualified two cents:
The mid freq's sound more processed and less lively than the original. You may need to loose the attenuator. I assume from your dedication that you are aware the rhythm sound is a combination of Malcolm's darker tone to Angus's brighter. The bottom end of the lead tone also sounds thicker to my ears than the original. Don't quote me on this, but I remember reading an article from the engineer that said he used a combination of close/far mic's when this was recorded (S57 + Condenser)... but I could be geezin'.

All of that nick-picking aside, your sound is awesome and so close that Angus would probably do a double-take.  I love the AC/DC guitar tones, and use them as both a reference and a center for my own material (rhythm tones... and for my hard rock tunes). Nice work, bud! Awesome equipment... pardon me while I go clean the drool off of my sweatshirt.  




Cheers


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## SoloDallas

Thanks Moose! I posted the separates in my last comment (I think) prior to this one. Your critique is well expressed and it makes good points. I know (sighs). Can't lose the attenuator right now (look at that room... ). Platt used two condensers. Two U67s. One close up and one away (unknown how). Naturally I will keep on trying, in hopes to perfect it (and make it replicable with other gear, too, possibly).

Thank you 

EDIT: posting again, separates:

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=896094&songID=9765771


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## woodddj

solodallas said:


> btw, this is my laboratory.
> On top of that mv jmp ('79) now sits the jmp sl (1976) i played this with:



holy shit!!!!! You have a stormtrooper guarding your stack. That is soooo cool. Congrats on the tone and sound you have achieved.


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## SoloDallas

(thank you)


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## cudamax2343

Solodallas you rock. That sounds to my ears like you got it. I've always listened to you on youtube and I've got 2 Questions for you.
1. When are you gone-a have a listener Contest=and the grand prize is the Winner spends the day with you and all of your stuff.
2. Why don't you bypass your built-in Attenuator and really record without it. It does make a difference and would get-ya closer to their live sound.
Once again love all your Videos and your playing and all your Guitars and Amps.
Your 1 lucky Dude


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## cudamax2343

Oh and here is a photo I got from this site of AC/DC's under the stage "Rigs" from the 80's that I thought you would love.


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## SoloDallas

Thanks Cuda! You don't need to win any contest to come visit me anytime (I'm though in Rome, IT). 
Thanks for the photo (and for the nice words...  )


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## cudamax2343

You Bet-ch-a SolloDallas. The next time I go to my other Home in Zakynthos Greece I'll look you up. It's a boat ride from Sicily Italy.


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## SoloDallas

cudamax2343 said:


> You Bet-ch-a SolloDallas. The next time I go to my other Home in Zakynthos Greece I'll look you up. It's a boat ride from Sicily Italy.



Time to say "efharisto" then, and "see" you soon?


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## cudamax2343

Thank-you too, my Friend. I'm usually there in the spring time at the Bosuki-ya's "met-tu-Moon-nar-das


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## drriff

Most people go to Rome to see the Vatican or the Pope.

Personally, I would rather go there to hang with SoloDallas and his awesome room of killer sound toys!

Hey, wait a minute, is Dallas the Pope?


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## cudamax2343

Or the night life and the Women and the Women at the Naked Beaches and the Women from the Naked Beaches that leave the beach and just put their Teeny weeny Bottoms on and go Top-less to an Outside Caf'e for lunch and Drinks and Get Tip-seey


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## SoloDallas

Well Italian women I have to say, are gorgeous. Gor-ge-ous. Goddamnit, I do have a gorgeous wife but at times my eyes just pop out looking elsewhere. There's really plenty here. Dunno why. Anyway. 'nuff with the pope... I'd rather have you come visit, play rocknroll and play some Italian women.

Heh!


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## newbies

That sounded amazing!! & man you have a awesome guitar collection!!


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## jensbrix

SoloDallas said:


> BTW, this is my laboratory.
> On top of that MV JMP ('79) now sits the JMP SL (1976) I played this with:



Wtf is the storm trooper in the background doing there


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## SoloDallas

Well, guarding my gear, that's obvious ain't it?


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## woodddj

SoloDallas said:


> Well, guarding my gear, that's obvious ain't it?



lmao


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## Australian

I saw the Storm Trooper, but look to the right of the photo beside the Marshall head thats on its side- is that a machine gun ?


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## SoloDallas

Australian said:


> I saw the Storm Trooper, but look to the right of the photo beside the Marshall head thats on its side- is that a machine gun ?



Well... more like a "StormTrooper long blaster rifle". 

I like weapons, but ONLY in cinematographic terms. That is, as used in the movies and only in that context. Good against evil.


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## MM54

Holy shit.

That's great.

I'm at a loss for all other words.


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## woodddj

Australian said:


> I saw the Storm Trooper, but look to the right of the photo beside the Marshall head thats on its side- is that a machine gun ?



good catch on the laser blaster, i had missed that one the first time around. there's so much cool shit in that room, its kinda hard to keep from getting distracted. my eyes keep zeroing in on that half stack. and thast the only reason i noticed there was a trooper behind it.


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## drriff

I keep looking at this thread title and wishing I could "struggle" at some of the songs I like the way SD is "struggling" with ACDC - still blows me away!


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## SoloDallas

woodddj said:


> good catch on the laser blaster, i had missed that one the first time around. there's so much cool shit in that room, its kinda hard to keep from getting distracted. my eyes keep zeroing in on that half stack. and thast the only reason i noticed there was a trooper behind it.



"Sweet Home, A-labama..."

Thank you guys. Didn't expect this much appreciation, frankly. 
Good to me.

I'm a big boy. And these are toys for big boys. All o' them.


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## woodddj

SoloDallas said:


> I'm a big boy. And these are toys for big boys. All o' them.



I HEAR YA MAN......i was lucky because my son got into starwars when episode 1,2 & 3 came out. i grew up the same time you did, and i too was and still a big fan. so needless to say, we have a vast collection of lite sabers, laser/blasters and mask. not to mention all the action figures and vehicles, both old and new. ive always wanted a life size trooper but never had the chance to get one.


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## SoloDallas

What's life like in A-labama? I love that place so much in mind. Never been there.


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## Rogue

Dang man, you are rocking. This stuff has been a joy to listen to.


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## woodddj

SoloDallas said:


> What's life like in A-labama? I love that place so much in mind. Never been there.



well.....actually, like all states you have your good and your bad. i live in a not so populated town (800 ppl). the scenery is nice, its a good place to grow up and retire. but the industry sucks. the average job pays $10 to $12 bucks an hour. and every time you turn around you hear about some meth lab that was raided. the biggest thing that bothers me is we are always assumed to be rednecks and hillbillies (i might live a country life style, but im metal at heart). but i cant complain, i moved to florida in 92. tried it for a year but it just didnt feel right, so i moved back. other that that, life in alabama aint half bad.


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## SoloDallas

Tried a whole different approach,

SoundClick artist: SoloDallas - page with MP3 music downloads


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## Georgiatec

SoloDallas said:


> BTW, this is my laboratory.
> On top of that MV JMP ('79) now sits the JMP SL (1976) I played this with:



I take it you're not in the room because you have a couple of Sophia Loren lookalikes with you in the bedroom next door.....If the terrorists thought they were going to come to your place in martyrdom they'd be blowing the shit out of everything.


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## SoloDallas

They would be trying to blow it out, but I'd still have an ace: cranking the Marshall all the way and trying to give them a heart attack!


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