# DSL5c - The Ultimate Lo-Power Amp



## Micky

Well, as promised it's finally here. December 9th, 2013.
Must be I am the first guinea pig to get one of these, I haven't heard anyone else spouting off yet. It was a good price from MF, call them and ask for a discount.

Now mind you, I haven't had a lot of time with this amp yet, so please realize there is a lot more to come in this thread. No photos as of yet, I will do that after dinner tonite when I get the big lights out so I can use the macro setup on the DSLR. I will tell you, that so far, I am impressed.

Finish and trim are excellent, nothing I could see right away was crooked, scratched or out of place. Tolex and assembly are top-notch, everything was as I expected. The amp comes with an IEC power cord for your country and a single-button footswitch with attached cable.

I turned it on, and looking thru the back grille, all the tubes seemed to light up, although a couple were pretty dim. Plugging in my Strat I started on the Clean/Crunch channel at the 5W setting. Everything works as expected, and I was pleasantly surprised at the depth and bass response of the 10" Celestion Ten 30 (G10R-30) speaker. I did need to turn the bass up higher than I expected (8 on the dial) but it sounded really nice with the mid and treble about 5 or so with the neck/middle pickup. I honestly could not tell if the tone shift (mid cut) button was in or out until the volume was turned up a bit. You can immediately tell if the deep switch is on, with the Strat I tend to favor this button engaged. Sounded pretty sweet really...

With the volume at 2, it is Fender clean. At 4 or so, it starts to break-up a bit, kinda like Clapton blues. At 6 or so, you are starting to get crunchy like Aerosmith or early Led Zepplin, and at 8 it is getting loud and gainy like Def Leppard. All the way up at 10 you are just starting to get into the Metal Zone... Remember, this amp is a non-master volume on this channel.

On the Ultra channel you have a volume control as well as a gain control, and this is much more controllable as far as the volume is concerned. Just as you would expect, it takes up right where the Classic channel leaves off.

Marshall seems to have tamed the fizz of the Ultra channel, but at low volumes it seems to be a bit muddy or undefined. Get the volume at 4 or so, and the gain at 4 or so and this baby takes off! You lead players are gonna love this, you can cut some screaming leads at this setting, and turning up the gain only makes things better. This channel is more bright than the Classic channel, or to me, not necessarily MORE bright, but LESS bass.

Time to take this baby apart! But first listen to Chris George's demo:


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## Steve Naples

Very glad to hear this. It looks to be a worthwhile acquisition....


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## Far Rider

Great news Micky. Any DSL is a good DSL.


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## Vinsanitizer

Awesome!! Congrats Micky and thanks for the first review. I called my local shop today and told them consider the first one they get in stock sold. That Chris George demo was very good, this amp already exceeds my expectations.


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## Micky

OK, so this thing comes apart just like any other Marshall combo, 4 screws on the top, unplug the power and speaker, and it slides right out. I used the footswitch on it's side to hold up one side of the chassis to get at the underside, sure wish I had a chassis holder...

Upon first look, it seems pretty small in comparison to some other beasts I have worked on. Before I get to the underside, the topside looks pretty sparse. The PT is about 1/2 the size of a 100W amp, and the OT is about the size of a 3h choke. Tiny.

3 preamp tubes and 1 12BH7, but wait! The output tube is a TAD! Sweet! The 3 preamp tubes are standard Marshall cheap Chinese issue, good sturdy tubes, shiny on the inside but nothing to write home about. Here are some photos of the topside:






I don't know who this is...





Standard preamp tubes...





Tiny little OT:





Here is the Power Transformer:





Topside layout:





As you can see, nothing special here. Standard stuff.
Here are some shots of the front and back:
















Yes, it is made in Vietnam:





Next it is time to get into the belly of the beast!


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## Vinsanitizer

Great pics. Any cabinet rattles, buzzes or noises on certain notes, particularly on the clean channel? My worst experience was the Class 5 - that thing just could not be quiet.


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## Micky

The underside of the chassis looks like any other DSL, filter caps soldered to the board, and some sort of goo or glue to hold them in place from the vibrations.

Here is a shot of the bridge rectifier diodes and three fuses:





What does this trimmer pot do?





Here are two speaker load resistors, 27-ohm 5W:





Overview of the underside:





As you can see, none of the tube sockets are visible because they are underneath the main PC board. The sockets are all chassis mounted. If I get adventurous I might pull the board just to get a look at them.

Here is a shot of the FX jacks, there is no switch to turn on the loop. I don;t know if it works, I don't have any pedals to try there. I suppose I could jump the loop to see if it actually does work, bit personally I think it would be neat if someone sent me a reverb or delay unit, perhaps a graphic equalizer pedal. Anyone?
(notice the shielded wire connecting the jacks to the board)





Without a schematic it will be difficult to decode this amp, but I assure you, if anyone will get the schematic, I will. Here is a shot of the 2 relays in the amp:





Gonna let this rest for a bit, gonna check out the line out and other back panel stuff after I read the instructions and see what Marshall has to say about things.

Go ahead and shoot any questions, I will do what I can with my limited ability to answer every one to the best of my ability...


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## Bloodrock

I'm really liking the sound of this amp. I like the way the clean/crunch seems to get a lot crunchier than the classic gain of the 15c. Also the Ultra does seem to have the gain dialed back from the 15w. Mick have you played a DSL 15 that you can compare the tone to?


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## sidvicious

mickey, how is the amp sensitivity? particularly at breakup to moderate gain levels?


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## Micky

Vinsanitizer said:


> Great pics. Any cabinet rattles, buzzes or noises on certain notes, particularly on the clean channel? My worst experience was the Class 5 - that thing just could not be quiet.



None so far. As wifey was home, I couldn't unleash this too much.
The back panel is solid, it has an extra brace glued on the back.
The construction seems overkill for a small amp.
Build and finish are just like the SL-5 & DSL40c.

OH - the amp weighs approximately 28 pounds.


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## stickyfinger

Do you think you could cram a 12" speaker in there? Was hoping for a pic with the back off. A 12" greenback would make a world of a difference.


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## Micky

sidvicious said:


> mickey, how is the amp sensitivity? particularly at breakup to moderate gain levels?



Good question.

I couldn't crank it too much, and I have yet to explore the 1W mode, but on the Classic channel the amp is really responsive to my playing. Notes were clean and clear, and as the volume went up (no gain control) it didn't get muddy or excessively harsh either, sounds typically like my Haze and similar to a C5 I played briefly at GC a while ago.

With my Strat I have a MHD custom wind set, with an extreme range between the neck and bridge. The bridge is wicked hot, and this pup lites up this amp! Almost too bright really, but adds to the definition when up around 8 or so on the volume. Really shows off my mistakes and sloppy style. Forgot to mention that I kinda suck at the guitar...

Can't wait to get this downstairs connected to the LP, probably won't need the deep switch...


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## Micky

stickyfinger said:


> Do you think you could cram a 12" speaker in there? Was hoping for a pic with the back off. A 12" greenback would make a world of a difference.



Yes. (cynical smirk on my face...)

Measuring the inside dimensions, it is exactly 12" top to bottom. What are the actual dimensions of a 12" speaker anyway? 

One might need to remove the speaker mounting studs from a couple spots, but yes, I am thinking a Greenback or maybe similar Eminence speaker is gonna sound sweet. Even IF I need to grind a slot in the bottom to make it fit...


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## Micky

Bloodrock said:


> I'm really liking the sound of this amp. I like the way the clean/crunch seems to get a lot crunchier than the classic gain of the 15c. Also the Ultra does seem to have the gain dialed back from the 15w. Mick have you played a DSL 15 that you can compare the tone to?



No, but you can send me one to try.

I do have a Haze 15 that is strikingly similar as far as controls are concerned, but the Haze has a bunch of effects, and is a class A/B push-pull 6V6 design.

It seems to break up quicker than the Haze, but is a slightly different sound.
It only stays clean till about 3 on the dial, so if you were looking to get loads of ultra-clean volume from an amp, this is not the one to buy.

The Ultra channel seems a bit bassy at lower volumes, (not muddy really) but comes alive when the gain and volume are up a bit.


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## stickyfinger

A 12 is actually a bit larger maybe 12.25 if I remember correctly. However I wonder if cuting a lil slit in the wood for the speaker to slid into or even trimming off the botom of the speaker frame a bit would be worth it.

How bought the tubes would they touch the speaker? how close are they to the 10"?


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## Micky

stickyfinger said:


> A 12 is actually a bit larger maybe 12.25 if I remember correctly. However I wonder if cuting a lil slit in the wood for the speaker to slid into or even trimming off the botom of the speaker frame a bit would be worth it.
> 
> How bought the tubes would they touch the speaker? how close are they to the 10"?



Gonna examine that soon, depends on when I can get the other initial stuff outta the way. The tubes look like they will clear, but it will depend on the speaker...


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## Dizzyg12

How loud does the classic channel get? Is it useable as a mild crunch without being deafening loud?


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## Micky

Dizzyg12 said:


> How loud does the classic channel get? Is it useable as a mild crunch without being deafening loud?



It gets loud, for sure. But you gotta remember, this is a NMV type of amp, and on the Classic channel it works (and sounds a lot) like a #1959 Plexi. There is no real gain adjustment except for the volume, and the louder you get the more gain you get. Also be aware, things can clean up a bit with the guitar volume, and this is where things start to shine. Volume maxed, guitar vol rolled back to wherever you need, you can get everything from Clapton to Metalica.

At a volume level that will keep up with the drummer...

I can only imagine thru a 4X12 it will sound even more awesomer...


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## ibmorjamn

what are the dimensions of the chassis if you still have it apart ?


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## Micky

ibmorjamn said:


> what are the dimensions of the chassis if you still have it apart ?



Not still apart, but I will measure it soon.
Gonna try and fit a 12" speaker in there, and will measure things up then.

I actually weighed the amp with my luggage scale, it comes in at 28 lbs.


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## crossroadsnyc

Hnad!


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## Bloodrock

You know celestion makes a 10 inch v30 speaker. I bet it would sound killer in these amps


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## Micky

There has been a bit of speculation or confusion over the 5W/1W switch/mode.

On the back there is a pushbutton switch to change power levels.
Marshall calls these modes Emulated Line Out Mode (5W) and Headphone Out Mode (1W).
In Line Out mode, the output functions as a normal Emulated Line Out would function, it provides a line-level signal to your PA or another amplifier, or to your audio interface, or whatever. The internal speaker in the combo still works.
In Headphone mode (1W) the internal speaker is disabled when a plug is inserted to that output, and the output from that same jack is suitable for headphones.

Another interesting feature is the Audio In, which is a pass-thru for your music player into the headphone output, the Audio In does not connect to the DSL5c amplifier portion at all. It strictly passes any audio applied to that jack directly into the headphone mix so that you can play along to your favorite music.

Mind you, I have not tried these features yet as I have been trying to understand all these features and how they work. I will give it a shot as soon as I can get some time, and report back. I am curious as to the headphone output level, and what kind of levels I will need to set on other things with the Emulated Line Out.


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## Micky

Bloodrock said:


> You know celestion makes a 10 inch v30 speaker. I bet it would sound killer in these amps



I agree! I am also curious about the Eminence Red Fang but it is 8-ohm only. The only Eminence 10" 16-ohm I can see right off the bat is the Legend 10516 but I dunno if that would be appropriate for a combo...

Maybe Marty or some of the other speaker guru's will chime in here with suggestions...


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## thenoodler

I don't understand why Marshall didn't put a seperate gain knob on the clean channel? It seems that channel is useless for clean sounds.


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## Vinsanitizer

Going by the CG video, looks like there will be no sparkling clean Jazz tones above about 10:00 on the clean channel. Therefore clean loudness would be very limited. In fact, w/o a separate gain control, the clean channel seems more intended as a dirty rhythm channel to compliment chan. 2 as a solo channel.

For what it's worth, the rumor is that this is the amp was intended to replace the Class 5.


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## brp

Now in stock at a nearby shop here FTR.


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## jvm210guy

Vinsanitizer said:


> Going by the CG video, looks like there will be no sparkling clean Jazz tones above about 10:00 on the clean channel. Therefore clean loudness would be very limited. In fact, w/o a separate gain control, the clean channel seems more intended as a dirty rhythm channel to compliment chan. 2 as a solo channel.
> 
> For what it's worth, the rumor is that this is the amp was intended to replace the Class 5.



That's a good observation. 

Being a Class 5 fan though, I don't think its good replacement amp. But, the DSL5 is for a high gain audience..


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## jvm210guy

I don't mean this as an insult, I mean this sincerely. I think with this amp they're going for the "chugga chugga crowd". The guys that come into GC and just immediately "chugg" away. Basically, what the ht-5 was gong for. This amp can do that, but it looks more versatile too for everyone else. 

Again, I gotta play it to say for sure..


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## Micky

I think anything in the 5W or so range is gonna appeal to that crowd. Especially if it is inexpensive. And you are absolutely right, it is pretty versatile.

My playing sucks, and I can get a pretty wide range of sound out of it. Note I said wide range, not 'good sound'... But in all reality, for what it is, it sounds great. I am still impressed with the depth of the 10" speaker. I can't wait to hear what is sounds like with a bit of reverb!


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## Micky

Well, from the looks of the schematic, you can set the bias on this amp.
Apparently if you get a 12BH7/ECC99 that is unbalanced for whatever reason, you can use a single trimpot to even things out. I would imagine because you cant set each side individually as you would with 2 trimpots, you need to equalize both sides.

Here is a shot of the trimpot:






And here is a shot of the bias test point:






I will have to check this next time I have the chassis out...


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## stickyfinger

Micky said:


> Well, from the looks of the schematic, you can set the bias on this amp.



Did you already get a copy of the schematic? Id really like to get my hands on one. Very curious of how they set up the PI and power section.


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## stickyfinger

Never mind Micky. I went over to the Roadhouse and to my surprise there you were already had it posted.


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## Username2

Micky said:


> No, but you can send me one to try.
> 
> I do have a Haze 15 that is strikingly similar as far as controls are concerned, but the Haze has a bunch of effects, and is a class A/B push-pull 6V6 design..



The DSL5 and the Haze were both designed by James Marchant. Glad you like it Micky. Did you get to try it into a 4x12? I hope to see it offered in a head soon.


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## brp

nuke said:


> I hope to see it offered in a head soon.



Me too. I'd very likely buy the head.


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## Micky

stickyfinger said:


> Never mind Micky. I went over to the Roadhouse and to my surprise there you were already had it posted.



Yup, I need to contribute over there once and a while, I can't contribute much, but when I do, it is something good...


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## Micky

nuke said:


> The DSL5 and the Haze were both designed by James Marchant. Glad you like it Micky. Did you get to try it into a 4x12? I hope to see it offered in a head soon.



No, I haven't taken it downstairs yet to connect it to anything else. I have it right at the end of the couch in the living room, and have been playing the shit outta it. My fingers are sore.

Not only do I want to connect it up to an external cab, I wanna test the emulated line out into other stuff. Should be easy to pump it into another amp like the 40c. Then again I have about 15KW of Crown PA equipment...

OH - I think James is a member here...


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## Micky

So anyway, I DID get a chance to plug in some headphones and play for a while, and jam along with some Aerosmith. What a blast! I am sitting on the end of the couch, jamming away, making all sorts of strange faces and stuff, singing along, and having a great old time. My wife and dog are sitting on the other end, apparently making fun of me and making faces at me. I stop playing to get to the next tune, and look over, and they are laughing their asses off, the dog is giving me that crooked head look, so I went back to jamming.

I had my iPhone plugged into the Audio Input on the back of the DSL5c, and the volume thru the amp is a little low, but that may be due to my Bose headphones. They don't ever seem too loud...

Anyway, turns out this is the perfect little practice amp. Seems like a little too much gain on the Classic channel, but at 4 or so on the dial I was right into the middle of the Aerosmith zone. Haven't used the Ultra channel much, my fingers are sore and I have had many other tasks to complete as of late...

More on that after I can get it downstairs and crank it a bit. Probably on my day off Friday.


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## Vinsanitizer

Micky;

1. What is your home address?
2. What time do you usually go to work?
3. Just curious, but what room are you keeping the DSL5 in?
4. Also if it's not too much trouble, what's your email password?

Okay thanks!


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## Micky

Asshole... You know you are welcome to come over anytime.

But to satisfy your curiosity:

123 Penny Lane
I work 24/7
Living Room currently
password =VinIsAHoser (case sensitive)

Bring a 15-pack and you can demo the DSL40c and the 5c side by side.
I'll make chili.


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## JohnH

I didn't see any form of speaker out for an external cab? - just the line and headphone. Is that true? Could be added I suppose. what's the ohms of the speaker? It would be nice to be able to send it through a big cab now and again.


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## brp

You have to unplug the internal to run an external cab, no extra SPKR outs available.
Stock SPKR is 16 ohm.


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## Micky

brp said:


> You have to unplug the internal to run an external cab, no extra SPKR outs available.
> Stock SPKR is 16 ohm.



Yes. And the cable is short, it is near impossible to remove the plug from the jack...


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## JohnH

Micky said:


> Yes. And the cable is short, it is near impossible to remove the plug from the jack...



OK, but at least I assume it would be easy enough to get a longer speaker cable if needed, without surgery in the chassis. 

And if it is set up for 16 Ohms, it should be happy driving our favourite 4x12's, or my V30 1x12.


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## Micky

JohnH said:


> OK, but at least I assume it would be easy enough to get a longer speaker cable if needed, without surgery in the chassis.
> 
> And if it is set up for 16 Ohms, it should be happy driving our favourite 4x12's, or my V30 1x12.



Exactly. It oughtta sound sweet thru a 4X12.
My problem today was I have snowblower troubles, and I didn't get a chance to play with it as I intended.

The speaker cable on mine is the correct length, it is just when I put the back on I didn't leave enough slack thru the cable clamp, and now it is tight...


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## Micky

So this morning (Saturday) I got to pick up where I left off...
Snowblower may be down for the count, waiting on parts and a bit of warmer weather...

So with that task outta the way, I dragged the DSL5c down to the practice room and plunked it on top of it's big brother. See pic below, sorry it is so crappy but there is no light down there and the flash really sux...

First thing I did was plug it into a 4X12 A cab filled with Eminence Swamp Thang 16-ohm speakers. Just as I suspected, it sounded EXACTLY like a 5W amp thru a 4X12. The bass response returned, and I could actually turn up the mid and the treble for a definite increase in clarity and definition. At the 5W setting, the Classic channel at about 2 on the volume was a comfortable playing level. The A cab sits on top of the B cab, and the speakers were right next to my head. At 5 or so on the dial was a definite crunch and a very noticeable increase in db level. The dog and cat started to run away so I figured that was loud enough for now...

At the 1W level, 2 on the Classic channel was where the breakup starts, and by 5 or so on the volume dial you are pretty gainy and there is no turning back. Almost NO headroom at this setting.

On the Ultra channel, I felt that it was quite a bit fizzy, and large amounts of gain made the signal suffer with a loss of definition on chords, and a screaming amount of feedback on long sustained lead notes. I may need to try and tame the OD channel a bit for my taste... Perfect for metal and anything high gain.

All of this, mind you is thru a 4X12, and sounding pretty sweet overall.

Next quick test is the Emulated Line Out. Marshall calls the 5W mode this. (the 1W mode is the Headphone Mode) A short jumper from the Line Out jack to the FX return on the DSL40c sounded great. I got the sharp, well defined tone from the 10" speaker in the 5C and the punch and thump from the EL34 amplified 12" in the 40c. OMG this was awesome! Because the DSL40c preamp section was not being used, I turned all the controls there to 0, and it was still incredibly quiet. The DSL5c front end sounded just as I thought it would, no surprises there. Just how an Emulated Line Out is supposed to work...

Again, anything over 5 on the volume knob started bouncing stuff off my desk, but I am certain that on stage or outdoors there will be an opportunity to open it up a bit more. Summer is coming... (i hope)

Next and last thing to test is the FX loop, but I have virtually nothing I can test there. So don't hold your breath, unless someone is adventurous and will send me an EQ, reverb, delay and anything else that might work in the FX loop.


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## Vinsanitizer

Does the lack of reverb bother you?

It seems odd that the DSL15 has reverb but no FX loop, yet the DSL5 has an FX loop but no reverb. Not necessarily complaining, but that does make it seem as though the DSL5 was an afterthought.

So my real wonder is, the DSL5 compared to the DSL15 - no FX loop on the 15, but it does have a "master" for the clean channel so you can control the actual volume, a presence control and reverb. It costs an extra $100 for the 15 for more wattage, presence, reverb and clean master.


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## Coronado

Micky said:


> Asshole... You know you are welcome to come over anytime.
> 
> But to satisfy your curiosity:
> 
> 123 Penny Lane
> I work 24/7
> Living Room currently
> password =VinIsAHoser (case sensitive)
> 
> Bring a 15-pack and you can demo the DSL40c and the 5c side by side.
> I'll make chili.


 
Hey Micky, DSL *AND* chili!? _how do I get in on this deal!?_  Heading back home (Boston) in a couple weeks to visit some family. Then up to UVM to visit my niece. I'll bring the booze if you can cook up some of that chili! MAN do I miss the east coast... I might just have an extra delay or reverb laying around here for ya that I can send (as long as my buddy didnt "_borrow_" it. He likes to stop by unannounced - I think he is really hoping that Im not home so he can go through my gear and grab some pedals, tubes, chords, picks... lol!


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## Micky

Vinsanitizer said:


> Does the lack of reverb bother you?
> 
> It seems odd that the DSL15 has reverb but no FX loop, yet the DSL5 has an FX loop but no reverb. Not necessarily complaining, but that does make it seem as though the DSL5 was an afterthought.
> 
> So my real wonder is, the DSL5 compared to the DSL15 - no FX loop on the 15, but it does have a "master" for the clean channel so you can control the actual volume, a presence control and reverb. It costs an extra $100 for the 15 for more wattage, presence, reverb and clean master.



I thought I would miss the reverb, but I don't. Funny how that works.

I think because there isn't too much clean available with the 5C I don't miss the reverb too much. I always equate reverb with clean tone, and as soon as it starts to get crunchy I can't really hear the reverb anyway.

I have a Fender if I NEED reverb...


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## Micky

Coronado said:


> Hey Micky, DSL *AND* chili!? _how do I get in on this deal!?_  Heading back home (Boston) in a couple weeks to visit some family. Then up to UVM to visit my niece. I'll bring the booze if you can cook up some of that chili! MAN do I miss the east coast... I might just have an extra delay or reverb laying around here for ya that I can send (as long as my buddy didnt "_borrow_" it. He likes to stop by unannounced - I think he is really hoping that Im not home so he can go through my gear and grab some pedals, tubes, chords, picks... lol!



Well I hope the storm doesn't screw up peoples travel plans too much. Should have a week or so after this weekend to get things cleaned up.

I know for me, we get out the 20th, but starting that next week on the 23rd I have some major equipment installations planned, so I will be lucky to get Xmas day off... Sorry to ruin your chili plans, but until the new stuff is up and running I am in Sys Admin mode 24/7.

But hey! You never know what will/could happen...

Travel safe my friend...


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## Rocktane

Thanks for the update Micky, cool stuff!

If I had to choose, I would prefer an amp with a loop and no reverb, opposed to the other way around. One can always pick up a cheap reverb pedal on CL or the bay, adding an FX loop, not quite as easy. Besides, the reverb that's included in the new DSL's isn't very good.


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## Micky

Funny how Marshall makes stuff with ALMOST everything everyone wants.
On the DSL5c, I wanted gain AND volume controls like the DSL40c.
The 15c has that I believe, but no loop and shitty reverb.

I guess this is why we mod amps...


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## JohnH

Hi Micky - here's a ley question for me, and it relates to the reason for having low watt amps at all, when you also have larger ones:

Given that you have a 5c and a 40c, can you really get a better lower-volume sound out of the 5c than you can by tweaking the 40c to low volume? (Lets say the target tone is a light crunch). A pedal can be part of the equation.

I'm two generations behind with my dsl401, but that one has several excellent ways to get low-volume tone, and high volume.


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## stickyfinger

Micky, how in the world did you get them to give you a discount. Ive talked to two different operators and they wont hook me up. I was really nice to. What was you secret?


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## Msharky67

stickyfinger said:


> Micky, how in the world did you get them to give you a discount. Ive talked to two different operators and they wont hook me up. I was really nice to. What was you secret?



I tried to get a discount on a used DSL40c but no luck. I've got a fund started and hope to have enough after Christmas to get something. I wish some real news would come out.


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## Micky

JohnH said:


> Hi Micky - here's a ley question for me, and it relates to the reason for having low watt amps at all, when you also have larger ones:
> 
> Given that you have a 5c and a 40c, can you really get a better lower-volume sound out of the 5c than you can by tweaking the 40c to low volume? (Lets say the target tone is a light crunch). A pedal can be part of the equation.
> 
> I'm two generations behind with my dsl401, but that one has several excellent ways to get low-volume tone, and high volume.



Great question John.

In short, no. I can get about equal tones out of both at low volume, and the DSL40c is more versatile, that is, I can get a greater range of different tones out of the DSL40c. No pedal needed for light crunch.

If you WANT to use a pedal to get a specific sound, then yes, again both will work well. As will the DSL401. All three excel at versatility, and low-volume bedroom players will agree. Even gigging players who practice at lower-than-stage volumes will do well with ANYthing in the DSL line, old or new. No new ground-breaking stuff to see in the new line.

BUT - I wanted a small amp I can use in the living room with headphones, as well as something I can cart around and jam or practice at various places without dragging a truckload of equipment around, hence the DSL5c upstairs in the living room AND the DSL40c downstairs in the practice area.

I work hard for my toys, and I have given up a lot in order to be able to afford a new one now and then. I admit having a few amps is a luxury, but each of these has a slightly different purpose, even though I can get them to sound strikingly similar at lower volumes. Personally I thought it was the right 'fit' for me, as there is no longer a need for 100W guitar amps at my house...


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## Micky

stickyfinger said:


> Micky, how in the world did you get them to give you a discount. Ive talked to two different operators and they wont hook me up. I was really nice to. What was you secret?



It was Black Friday, and I chatted with a MF consultant online.
No special trick, I guess it was just good timing.


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## JAC

Thanks for the update! I will see if they come out with a head version in the future. I hope that has a headphone out also. I like these so far.


----------



## Tonton

I have one.
Together with a Zoom CDR70 (chorus, delay, reverb) in the loop it is great combi for at home!
The Deep switch is special, it is really tailored for the small speaker and small cabinet, it gives a lot of bass-end extra. 
It really works out well, without it sounds too thin. So great for low volume!
So Deep is not suitable for external cabinet or high volume in my opinion, its gets immediately strangely bassy and muddy.

I was wondering about the line-out, maybe here someone can make it clear to me.

at 5W it functions as a emulated out, and at 0.5W as headphone output.
But at 5W the speaker is on so to get high enough signal through output the speaker is already way too loud. 
Of course at 0.5W speaker is off so better suited for 'silent' home recording.

but my question is:
-Is the 0.5W just an emulated out with the speaker off? or is emulation maybe different for headphone usage? 
so is this setting good for recording or not advisable.
-Should i use stereo cable, amp signal is anyway mono...


----------



## stillrockin

too much treble sound in this amp


----------



## Micky

Tonton said:


> I have one.
> 
> but my question is:
> -Is the 0.5W just an emulated out with the speaker off? or is emulation maybe different for headphone usage?
> so is this setting good for recording or not advisable.
> -Should i use stereo cable, amp signal is anyway mono...



The switch does make a difference in the line out, in 5W mode it is an actual line level (1V p/p) at a relatively high impedance, whereas the headphone out is a higher output at a lower impedance, suitable for headphones. And yes, it cuts the speaker out in Headphone Mode.

If you need to, you can unplug the speaker in Emulated Line Out mode, as there are load resistors built into the circuit. Personally, so far I have not needed to do this, as the built-in speaker gives a bunch of high-mid tone to the mix when I have it plugged into an additional amp.

I used a mono jumper to another amp in Emulated Line Out Mode, and a stereo headphone plug when in Headphone Mode.


----------



## Rocktane

stillrockin said:


> too much treble sound in this amp



Thank god Marshall had the foresight to install a treble control, how innovative of them. Imagine that... making an eq adjustment on your amp.


----------



## Micky

Rocktane said:


> Thank god Marshall had the foresight to install a treble control, how innovative of them. Imagine that... making an eq adjustment on your amp.



And the treble control actually works well. I can't turn it all the way down, but you can certainly tame the highs. Tone control on the guitar works wonders also...


----------



## ibmorjamn

Micky said:


> So anyway, I DID get a chance to plug in some headphones and play for a while, and jam along with some Aerosmith. What a blast! I am sitting on the end of the couch, jamming away, making all sorts of strange faces and stuff, singing along, and having a great old time. My wife and dog are sitting on the other end, apparently making fun of me and making faces at me. I stop playing to get to the next tune, and look over, and they are laughing their asses off, the dog is giving me that crooked head look, so I went back to jamming.
> 
> I had my iPhone plugged into the Audio Input on the back of the DSL5c, and the volume thru the amp is a little low, but that may be due to my Bose headphones. They don't ever seem too loud...
> 
> Anyway, turns out this is the perfect little practice amp. Seems like a little too much gain on the Classic channel, but at 4 or so on the dial I was right into the middle of the Aerosmith zone. Haven't used the Ultra channel much, my fingers are sore and I have had many other tasks to complete as of late...
> 
> More on that after I can get it downstairs and crank it a bit. Probably on my day off Friday.


really cool , thats whats it's all about playing until your fingers hurt.I am quite enviuos , rock on 



Vinsanitizer said:


> Micky;
> 
> 1. What is your home address?
> 2. What time do you usually go to work?
> 3. Just curious, but what room are you keeping the DSL5 in?
> 4. Also if it's not too much trouble, what's your email password?
> 
> Okay thanks!


it's not to obvious Vin , you forgot to ask for his bank account and then wish him a Merry Christmas v ! lol


----------



## Micky

ibmorjamn said:


> really cool , thats whats it's all about playing until your fingers hurt.I am quite enviuos , rock on
> 
> it's not to obvious Vin , you forgot to ask for his bank account and then wish him a Merry Christmas v ! lol



Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to you as well!

Don't forget to give one of them big 'ol Californy Howdy's to Vin too!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dgdl2e_0JRA]The Beverly Hillbillies (1993) - Home Video Trailer #2 [SD] - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Vinsanitizer

stillrockin said:


> too much treble sound in this amp


 
It's about the size of a large potato! Wouldst ye expect the thunder of the gods?


----------



## Tonton

Actually it has quite a lot of bass at low volumes (more than a large amp) due to the deep switch.
Of course at little louder volumes a bigger cabinet sounds larger.

Interesting to check the Celestion 10" lineup.
Guitar - Celestion - Guitar, Bass & Pro Audio Speakers

Currently there is a budget speaker ten 30 in it, I wonder how much it is voiced to it.
In Fender princeton they seem to use same speaker.
Would love to try a 10" Greenback in it to compare, which seems best low volume replacement speaker
Also would like to try some new JJ tubes in it.


----------



## stillrockin

strange photos
when i buy some amps, i don't look inside! (or to change tubes some years later)
i like the dsl5 but the dsl1 had volume+gain for clean channel = crunch with volume
and dsl5 has only one knob= you must play loud to have crunch sound wit clean channel

big problem, don't you?


----------



## Micky

Strange? What is inside doesn't matter to you? Well it does to me...
And yes, no volume control means you have to crank it a bit.
If you want early crunch breakup, just use the 1W mode. Easy.
Not a problem at all really...


----------



## Speeddemon

Micky said:


> The only Eminence 10" 16-ohm I can see right off the bat is the Legend 10516 but I dunno if that would be appropriate for a combo...
> 
> Maybe Marty or some of the other speaker guru's will chime in here with suggestions...


I have the Eminence 105-8 (the same speaker, but the 8 Ohm version) in my SF Princeton Reverb. Also tested the speaker in my Tech21 TM30 combo and compared it to the Eminence Copperhead (10", 8 ohm) in the Princeton Reverb. 
I can tell you, the Eminence 105 is a GREAT combo speaker! It behaves a bit like a 12" speaker; big lows, nice, mild mids and clear, but no sharp highs. Very balanced tone.


----------



## Micky

Well today was an interesting day.
Snowblowed 15 or so inches of snow just in time for the UPS truck to come up the driveway. Only one package today...

10" WGS G10CS 16-ohm smooth cone, here it is installed in the DSL5c:






Oh how sweet it is! My how lovely you look my dear...
This made such a huge difference I was reluctant to go further...
Marty was kind enough to supply me with an RCA-branded Mullard short-plate for the V1 position, and this actually made things a bit smoother as well as fuller sounding.

I knew I was on the right path...

But this amp still had quite a bit of fizz, enough so that on the Ultra channel with the gain over 5 or so it just sounded way too fizzy for me. Even with the treble all the way down, it still lacked definition and had way too much high end.

So I got to studying things, and decided to unsolder the C31 'fizz' cap. This actually brought the Treble control back into play, at higher gain settings this actually alters the tone enough so that you can set the EQ and leave it in one spot when changing channels. (same thing with the DSL40c)

Here is a shot of the cap, it is located behind the Gain control:






One last thing to check - B+ voltage and bias. From the looks of things this is a class A/B push-pull design using a single 12BH7a (TAD 12BH7A STR to be exact...).
B+ seemed stable at 455VDC and bias seemed strange at 109 mv (ma) . I didn't adjust anything, as it sounded excellent to me after the mods.






I will leave things as they are, and may play a bit more after a nap. I burned my pinky finger while snowblowing today (glove got caught on the muffler replacing the belt) and it hurts like hell...


----------



## JayCM800

Micky said:


> Well today was an interesting day.
> Snowblowed 15 or so inches of snow just in time for the UPS truck to come up the driveway. Only one package today...
> 
> 10" WGS G10CS 16-ohm smooth cone, here it is installed in the DSL5c:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh how sweet it is! My how lovely you look my dear...
> This made such a huge difference I was reluctant to go further...
> Marty was kind enough to supply me with an RCA-branded Mullard short-plate for the V1 position, and this actually made things a bit smoother as well as fuller sounding.
> 
> I knew I was on the right path...
> 
> But this amp still had quite a bit of fizz, enough so that on the Ultra channel with the gain over 5 or so it just sounded way too fizzy for me. Even with the treble all the way down, it still lacked definition and had way too much high end.
> 
> So I got to studying things, and decided to unsolder the C31 'fizz' cap. This actually brought the Treble control back into play, at higher gain settings this actually alters the tone enough so that you can set the EQ and leave it in one spot when changing channels. (same thing with the DSL40c)
> 
> Here is a shot of the cap, it is located behind the Gain control:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One last thing to check - B+ voltage and bias. From the looks of things this is a class A/B push-pull design using a single 12BH7a (TAD 12BH7A STR to be exact...).
> B+ seemed stable at 455VDC and bias seemed strange at 109 mv (ma) . I didn't adjust anything, as it sounded excellent to me after the mods.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will leave things as they are, and may play a bit more after a nap. I burned my pinky finger while snowblowing today (glove got caught on the muffler replacing the belt) and it hurts like hell...



Nice!

I'd always wished you owned a 2203KK so you could tinker with it and share your findings with us!


----------



## Micky

Send me yours...


----------



## JayCM800

Micky said:


> Send me yours...


No way! Maybe if I buy a second one... NO! Maybe if I meet Kerry King and he lets me play on stage with him I can ask him to send you and Nathan a couple of free amps! Then we can all crank and rock out!!! Why not?


----------



## Micky

I wouldn't know what to do with that much power and tone anymore...


----------



## Micky

One thing I forgot to mention about the WGS speaker, is that it is a 75W speaker and the magnet is HUGE! It adds 5 pounds to the total weight.

Amp went from 28 pounds to almost 34...


----------



## PatGaut97

Can't wait to hear if the 12" speaker experiment worked out! Thanks for all the info on the amp.


----------



## Micky

PatGaut97 said:


> Can't wait to hear if the 12" speaker experiment worked out! Thanks for all the info on the amp.



Still no word yet from MF about the WGS V30.

But I DID get some new PA tubes from Marty for this bad boy.

Now all I need is some time to pull the back off and swap them out...


----------



## mike016

I want share my experience recently with the DSL5C. I'm strictly a bedroom player, looking for something that could do late 60's and 70's classic rock plus some 80's metal. DSL5C seemed like the obvious choice. I play through headphones a lot and don't need anything loud.

None of my local stores had the DSL5C in stock, so I tried the DSL40, like the sound and had them order the 5C for me.

The Ultra Gain channel on the 5C is very very good. Loved it. But I was really disappointed with the classic gain channel. I couldn't get any sounds I liked out of the classic gain channel. Treble was very difficult to tame. Bass sounded very boomy but hollow. (Is that flabby?) The overdrive on the classic channel sounded worse on the headphone/line out. I also learned 1-watt is still too loud for home use and I really missed the crunch channel that the other DSLs had.

Anyhow...I returned it and got the DSL40C. The second I plugged this amp in I was in heaven. Cleans are warm, crunch channel is amazing and the Ultra channel is still awesome. It sounds great to me at low volumes. 

I wanted to share my experience in case anyone is in a similar situation or on the fence.


----------



## Micky

So I got some new tubes the other day (last week actually) from Marty, and I finally got around to installing them in the DSL5c this afternoon.

I think I have a dilemma...

The original 12BH7a had its bias set from the factory at 109. OK, a little high, but this is a non-standard output tube so I went with it. Sounds pretty good, after all it is a TAD 12BH7A STR. Cleans start to disappear after about 5 on the volume in the Classic channel with this tube. (using 5W mode BTW)

I install the Tung-Sol that Marty sent along and WHOA! Bias immediately climbed to 195 and with the trimmer all the way up, I could only get it down to the 140-145 range. Mind you, it sounds great at 145 or so, cleans start to disappear at about 5 on the vol dial. I decided to bring it back up to 195 or so, and I do believe, this is kinda hot... Cleans are gone after 2-3 on the dial, and all the way up sounds kinda flubby.

I also need to mention he sent along a new PI tube as well. I am off to measure more stuff, put the OEM tube back and measure again...


----------



## JanB

Micky said:


> The switch does make a difference in the line out, in 5W mode it is an actual line level (1V p/p) at a relatively high impedance, whereas the headphone out is a higher output at a lower impedance, suitable for headphones. And yes, it cuts the speaker out in Headphone Mode.
> 
> I used a mono jumper to another amp in Emulated Line Out Mode, and a stereo headphone plug when in Headphone Mode.



Hi, the 5w emulated line out means line level preamp signal with a cabinet emulation, is that correct? I couldn't find what kind of cab emulation it is, is that 1x10, 1x12 or 4x12 and how good it is? 

And if I want to use this amp only with headphones and for recording from line out, do you think it still shines? or it is at its best when played reasonably loud through a real speaker? I heard that the output transformer in a tube amp is responsible for a huge part of the tube sound(depending on the circuit design) and using a line out/Fx Send probably I will be getting "less tube" sound is that correct?


----------



## Micky

JanB said:


> Hi, the 5w emulated line out means line level preamp signal with a cabinet emulation, is that correct? I couldn't find what kind of cab emulation it is, is that 1x10, 1x12 or 4x12 and how good it is?
> 
> And if I want to use this amp only with headphones and for recording from line out, do you think it still shines? or it is at its best when played reasonably loud through a real speaker? I heard that the output transformer in a tube amp is responsible for a huge part of the tube sound and using a line out probably I will be getting "less tube" sound is that correct?



Great questions!

The line out really doesn't 'emulate' anything, it is just a term to describe line-level type of outputs. It is tapped right at the speaker outputs (hence the word emulated) with a few components to drop the signal level to the appropriate 1V or so line out. So it is not your typical line out that is tapped after the preamp and before the output stage, it is after the power amp section including after the OT.

As far as recording, I am not the best guy to ask. I don't record, I have no real interface, but I have in the past. Newer recording stuff is much more flexible, and can probably do very well with the DSL5c. In my opinion, if I wanted to use ANY amp, including the DSL5c, I would mic the speaker. Sorry, but I am old fashioned that way.

Although, having said that, the 5c does in fact work great as the front end to a larger amp. Why anyone would want to do this is beyond me, as there are much better choices for that than this amp.

BUT - the 5c does great as I have said, even though the output itself is not adjustable. (the input is adjustable so you still have control) There are a couple things to consider though. When in 5W mode, the line out does NOT disconnect the speaker. Even though you could disconnect the speaker (load resistors are built-in) I would plug in a 'dummy load' resistor just to be safe if I didn't want the cab speaker active.

I have in fact, plugged the line-out into a monster PA system direct (almost 15KW) and it works fine. A more practical use would be to plug into a head and 4X12 or another combo amp, and again this works great. As described earlier, I plugged the line out into the FX return of my DSL40c, and it was a killer combination.

The 1W 'headphone mode' works pretty well, but I have not used it a lot to be honest. Again, levels are not really adjustable as far as things are concerned (headphone output & mix levels). At least not as much as I would like them to be. I did try it a couple times, but it is not my main mode for use. The speaker is disconnected in this mode so it should be great for silent playing.

Hope I could answer your questions...


----------



## JanB

Thanks! finally this "emulated" word cleared up, it is confusing because Blackstar ht5 uses the same term "emulated output" for cab emulation headphone out.



Micky said:


> Great questions!
> When in 5W mode, the line out does NOT disconnect the speaker. Even though you could disconnect the speaker (load resistors are built-in) I would plug in a 'dummy load' resistor just to be safe if I didn't want the cab speaker active.



What happens when you are in 5 watt mode, get a line out AND put a dummy jack to "effects receive" this should silent the speaker normally if I get a signal from "fx send" (at least on my ht5)

Did you every try this?

Thanks

edit : ok..stupid question probably you will not hear anything from line out since it comes after the fx return stage DUH


----------



## JanB

Micky said:


> Even though you could disconnect the speaker (load resistors are built-in) I would plug in a 'dummy load' resistor just to be safe if I didn't want the cab speaker active.



Do you think the built in load resistors are not-safe? or you think by mistake you can unplug the lineout cable while speaker is disconnected and fry the amp?


----------



## JanB

Ok I forgat to ask the most crucial question 

I understand in 5 watt there is no speaker emulation, but when in 1w mode and using headphones is it still true? I suspect they made some cab-emulated signal to make it more enjoyable to listen.

If thats true I can not apply Cab IRs over that signal..so that can mean there is no way to record in silent (or pay 200$ for a loadbox)


thanks a lot!


----------



## Micky

$200 for a loadbox? All you need is a 16-ohm 5W resistor. Solder it to a mono 1/4" plug and you have an instant dummy load. That is, if you are like me and concerned about proper load impedance... If not, just unplug the speaker. The load resistors are already there. 5W mode is a high-impedance line-level output, 1W mode is a low-impedance headphone output.

All I can say is try it, and report your findings back here. That is what this thread is for, but I suspect there aren't many here with a 5c yet...

As far as 'cab emulation' I have no idea. How can you emulate any cab without knowing what the dimensions, speaker, and all the other crap associated with a cab? It has a line-level output. Period. And what is a Cab IR? (please forgive my stupidity?) 

If you want some sort of adjustable emulation device, I think that is what you should buy. The DSL5c is a small practice amp. It is stuck halfway between an MG and a real DSL. If you want something more elaborate, then maybe a programmable rack unit might fit your needs better. Sorry that is just my opinion, YMMV...


----------



## Micky

JanB said:


> Thanks! finally this "emulated" word cleared up, it is confusing because Blackstar ht5 uses the same term "emulated output" for cab emulation headphone out.
> 
> 
> 
> What happens when you are in 5 watt mode, get a line out AND put a dummy jack to "effects receive" this should silent the speaker normally if I get a signal from "fx send" (at least on my ht5)
> 
> Did you every try this?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> edit : ok..stupid question probably you will not hear anything from line out since it comes after the fx return stage DUH



This exactly.


----------



## JanB

Micky said:


> $200 for a loadbox? All you need is a 16-ohm 5W resistor. Solder it to a mono 1/4" plug and you have an instant dummy load.
> 
> 
> As far as 'cab emulation' I have no idea. How can you emulate any cab without knowing what the dimensions, speaker, and all the other crap associated with a cab? It has a line-level output. Period. And what is a Cab IR? (please forgive my stupidity?)



Man you saved me from 200$, but may I ask if amp expects for a 8 ohm speaker why dont not we use 8 ohm resistor but a 16 ohm? 


Cab IR s are modeled "Cabinet impulse responses", On computer you can apply the IR to the preamp signal and it sounds like the cabinet its modeled. you can choose microphone type, angel, distance, speaker specs..etc.

For instance when I get a signal from "fx send" in Blackstar HT5R and send it to my computer through a soundcard, it sounds like bees in a trash can. Then I apply the Cab IRs, and it sounds like a real guitar sound coming from the cabinet you choose.

Since raw preamp signal sounds like s*ht, some manufacturers(blackstar ht5) put an "emulated" headphone out to some amps, which "emulates" a cabinet response of the preamp signal, so you can enjoy listening headphones and don't barf.

So being that it is, if a signal is already emulated in the amp and you again apply some cabinet emulation in computer, than you will not get good results. Cab IRs on computer expect for a raw amp signal (pre amp or pre+poweramp signal) but not with some fake emulation added to signal to please headphoned bedroom players.

And this point is/was not very clear for me in DSLC5  

thanks


----------



## Micky

So apparently you do not have a DSL5c yet...

If you did, you would see that there is no 8-ohm output. The OT is 16-ohm output only. Also, there is only one speaker output jack, forcing you to either disconnect the speaker to use an external cab, or mod the amp to add another output in parallel.

There is no 'emulation' going on in the amp, the circuit is far too simple for that. It is just a direct output from the amp, including the PA and OT. 

You will enjoy the amp for sure. Especially over a Blackstar...


----------



## JanB

Micky said:


> So apparently you do not have a DSL5c yet...



No of course not, why would I bother you with all these questions if I have the amp  

Thanks your answers were very helpful


----------



## Micky

OK so I am only a little slow... Took me a while to figure it out!
I thought you had one and were having difficulties.

So go play one! Bring your iPod and a cable and your headphones and try it!
Only way to tell...


----------



## Tonton

I also need 5W silent recording.

So I just bought myself a 22Ohm 100W resistor






They get hot, so better to take much more Watts than amp is.
Also i read a guitar speaker always goes over rated impedance depending on frequency, even at 8Ohm they advise to use 20Ohm.

So I will solder it to a mono jack and see what happens 
and of course let you guys know.


----------



## JanB

Tonton said:


> Also i read a guitar speaker always goes over rated impedance depending on frequency, even at 8Ohm they advise to use 20Ohm.



I was just reading an article about this;

_"The idea behind using a 30 ohm resistor is because your average guitar loudspeaker is a reactive load with an impedance curve variable by frequency. The value of 30 ohms is supposed to represent a middle of the ground resistive load, where I believe that an amplifier running at 8 ohms into a purely resistive load of 8 ohms will not respond or sound near the same as it would through an 8 ohm speaker. I've read that a purely resistive load equal to the transformers secondary does a pretty good job at castrating the amp tonally and causes a bit of stress to the power section and transformer where a higher value load resistor would not do this"_

But still diverted opinions on this subject and I guess your load choice really effects the tone;

http://recording.org/diy-pro-audio-forum/50351-going-to-build-a-dummy-load.html


----------



## Micky

Without getting too far into the subject of reactance and impedance, a purely resistive load such as a wirewound resistor is NOT actually purely resistive. The load will vary a bit according to frequency and it's actual impedance (although difficult to measure) will not be very far from it's DC resistance. 30 ohms is too much, while 20 is in the ballpark.

But then again, we are talking about a 5W amp here, not an over 100W beast. The OT in the DSL5c is overkill for what it does, so I would imagine with the load resistors already built-in, you are not going to see much change in actual load on the amp or in change of tone in the output. Again YMMV...

(still good points to ponder though...)


----------



## Tonton

hmm.. in that rational i'm quite low.
choices Ohm at 100W are: 22, 33, 47 and 68

If 8 ohm they advise 30Ohm, maybe with my 16Ohm DSL5 i better take 68 Ohm.
Confusing this... maybe at least i jump up to 33.


----------



## JanB

Tonton said:


> maybe with my 16Ohm DSL5 i better take 68 Ohm.
> 
> If 8 ohm they advise 30Ohm
> .



Curious, is this because you don't trust the built in load resistors in the DSL5? or they are only in the combo version?

Also I think that calculation is made for 120watt and not 5W if you read the thread


----------



## JanB

Micky said:


> The OT in the DSL5c is overkill for what it does, so I would imagine with the load resistors already built-in, you are not going to see much change in actual load on the amp or in change of tone in the output. Again YMMV...



Sorry but what is OT? 

There is no user manual for DSL5c on marshall website! So I hope they send a user manual offically saying that we can count on the built in resistors and disconnect the speakers? And it is still under warranty.


----------



## Tonton

OT = output transformator, i guess it is bit overspec for this little amp.
Even though load resistors, Marshall did put warning on back to always connect speaker before use. Maybe standard message... but anyway i thought let's put some resistor instead


----------



## JanB

Tonton said:


> OT = output transformator, i guess it is bit overspec for this little amp.
> Even though load resistors, Marshall did put warning on back to always connect speaker before use. Maybe standard message... but anyway i though let's put some resistor instead



If Marshall does not say anything about load resistors and warns to connect the speaker how do we know they are there? they should write better manuals


----------



## Trapland

I wonder if I missed the part about how the power stage works on the dsl5. I am guessing it is a push/pull dual triode setup with the 12bh7 right? I can't see how you could get 5 watts by doing a parallel single ended amp. I guess is COULD BE done as I think the plate disapation is like 3 watts per side on that tube, but then they use 2 12at7 in the jmp1 in parallel single ended and only get one watt and that tube it rated at one watt per side.

Anyone know if its push pull? If you can get 5 watts from one in push pull, you may be able to get 10 watts from 2 bottles (4 triodes). 

The reason I ask is that I have a couple handfuls of NOS 12bh7 in my caddy that I may want to use for a project. I even have a few shiny new Mullards with printing.


----------



## Micky

Nice that youy got spare 12BH7's!

Yes, it is a push/pull class ab design.


----------



## mr. tolex

Hi Micky just a quick question for ya. I recently picked up a DSL5c from AMS and I've noticed static noise with & without guitar plugged into the input ... Also when I power off the amp there is a brief POP sound? Is this normal? Or should I request an exchange? Thanks in advance.


----------



## Micky

If you don't have any other tubes to try, then yes, first ask for a different one.
Try it in the store.

If you have some spare preamp tubes lying about, swap them out one at a time to see if it makes any difference.


----------



## Dizzyg12

Micky have you tried the audio in feature to play along with an iPod? How exactly does that feature work? Is it only with headphones or does it work with standard operation as well?

I'm wondering to how suitable and practical it would be for silent practice playing along with backing tracks or mp3s with headphones. I use my iPad or macbook mostly for that but you lose that nice tube tone with the processed modeling apps. Plus I like the idea of still being a me to use my pedal board and switch things like I normally would as opposed to having to press buttons or tap screens. 

Seems the dsl5c might work well in this fashion. I know the blackstar ht5c would as well but I had bad luck with my previous ht60 so I'm not a blackstar fan at this point.


----------



## Micky

Headphones only. And only in 1W mode.

It is AWESOME for silent play. It accepts just about any type of input, 1/8 stereo plug compatible! First nite I tried it I played along to Aerosmith for a good long while, I use Bose headphones which arent too loud and it mixed very well.

All I can do is suggest you go to a store and try one. Hearing is believing. Take your iPod and a cable, maybe even your guitar and you will be blown away. I was...


----------



## Micky

So I had the DSL5c opened up a while back, and I measured the free space in the combo cab with the chassis installed.

Almost enough space for a 12" speaker...

So I finally got the WGS V30 that I ordered from MF a while ago, and while I intended it to go into the DSL40c, I thought I might see if I could cram it into the DSL5c.

Dry-fitting it into the cab showed me I lacked about 3/8 of an inch or so. Rather than hacking the required space off the speaker itself, I decided to cut a slot into the bottom of the cab so the speaker would clear everything.

Long story short, after a bit of time with a drill, hammer, chisel and a vacuum, the V30 fits like a glove into the chassis. There is VERY close clearence for the tubes, but there is about 1/4 inch or so of space to work with. Also the back has about 1/2 inch clearance with that HUGE 12" monster installed. Here is a photo or two:

In this shot you can barely see the speaker fit into the slot:





Here is the clearance around the speaker in the cab:





Here is the tight clearance:





Best part is - It sounds awesome. Unfortunately it now weighs over 36 pounds...


----------



## Msharky67

Micky said:


> Headphones only. And only in 1W mode.
> 
> It is AWESOME for silent play. It accepts just about any type of input, 1/8 stereo plug compatible! First nite I tried it I played along to Aerosmith for a good long while, I use Bose headphones which arent too loud and it mixed very well.
> 
> All I can do is suggest you go to a store and try one. Hearing is believing. Take your iPod and a cable, maybe even your guitar and you will be blown away. I was...




Hey What are we talking about here? Can I do this with my DSL1h? I am curious.


----------



## Micky

Not on the 50th ann. heads... new feature on the DSL5c.

Sorry Sharky...


----------



## Dizzyg12

Micky said:


> Headphones only. And only in 1W mode.
> 
> It is AWESOME for silent play. It accepts just about any type of input, 1/8 stereo plug compatible! First nite I tried it I played along to Aerosmith for a good long while, I use Bose headphones which arent too loud and it mixed very well.
> 
> All I can do is suggest you go to a store and try one. Hearing is believing. Take your iPod and a cable, maybe even your guitar and you will be blown away. I was...



Thanks! Will definitely look into it and test it out. How's the new speaker? What's the stock speaker like? Do you think it's a chAnge is necessary?


----------



## Micky

Well the original Celestion 10" speaker is kinda cheap, not too much bass response and very tinny and edgy. Not broken in at all, you might expect that.

I replaced that one with a WGS G10CS 10" smooth cone and it was like night and day difference. Bass was much better and the thump that one equates with Marshall was back. Got a helluva deal from MF on thet speaker, as well as the new 12" V30.

I just got the V30 installed tonite (barely fits) and again, the move from a 10" to a 12" is massive. Cleans are deep, and crunch is smoother. I can back off the bass and finally EQ like normal.

I don't have a lot of time on it yet, might get to crank it tomorrow on my day off...


----------



## Tonton

Wow cool!

Would like to fit in a 12" as well. 
Celestion V30 fits style of amp well i think.. it is bit loud 100dB for small practice amp
Maybe the cab is also bit too small not only physical but also resonance wise..
But as I hear you saying night and day difference.... must try 
Or make my life easy and just hook in a G10 vintage

As I said before I'm trying to use the line out at 5W with speaker off.
Eventually they sent me a 33Ohm 100W resistor, which i hooked up as speaker out. It stays completely cold, even if I unleash all the 5 Watts 
First feeling is sound has wider dynamic range on 5W than headphone 1W speaker off setting. (Using Reaper and Line6 UX2 interface)
Have to get used to the Line out volume level.
In the TSL122 there was an XLR line out, which was very clear where the max volume level was before clipping at line in of my Line6 UX2 interface.
In the DSL5C it just start to distort in the low end and compress with higher volumes, but it never clips at the interface even with amp at 10.
So apparently the Marshall interface limits the level, now just have to find the sweet spot where it doesn't overload... maybe around 4/10 is sweet spot.
Deep switch on i'm in doubt, when off it does need a bit more bass for sure.
But the CDR70 in the loop can also function as EQ... and maybe have to play around with cab sims in Reaper... many factors..
Seems have to put a lot more trial and error in this to get best sound...

TBC


----------



## JanB

Tonton said:


> Wow cool!
> 
> As I said before I'm trying to use the line out at 5W with speaker off.
> Eventually they sent me a 33Ohm 100W resistor, which i hooked up as speaker out. It stays completely cold, even if I unleash all the 5 Watts
> First feeling is sound has wider dynamic range on 5W than headphone 1W speaker off setting. (Using Reaper and Line6 UX2 interface)
> Have to get used to the Line out volume level.
> .
> 
> TBC



great, you just solder the resistor to a mono jack and that's it right? and how did you choose to use 100W but not 5 watt and 33ohm and not 16 ohm..I remember we discussed that but it was unclear


----------



## Micky

No, I would use a 16-20 ohm 5W resistor soldered to a 1/4" plug.

What anyone else chooses to do is well beyond my control...


----------



## Tonton

Micky said:


> No, I would use a 16-20 ohm 5W resistor soldered to a 1/4" plug.
> 
> What anyone else chooses to do is well beyond my control...



anyone else is me?
i chose 100W because it cools better, but it stays icecold.. so guess bit over top
I agree wanted to buy the 22W but changed it and couldn't change back on time... so stuck with 33W... ah well it doesn't make lot of difference with these small powers i guess.. so go for lower watts and 20 some ohm


----------



## Tonton

Bought myself a 12" vintage 30 






had to lower it a little to center it and create some space for the tubes
With a 1cm chisel it was quite easy to scrape a hole in the soft wood






here is how it fits





with close space to the pre-tubes.
actually in reality I moved it little more away, tubes really can angle easily without losing connection






Here is my practice setup, see that nice Zoom CDR70 in the loop, everything you want in the loop is in there.
Great combi with this amp.
I also have a Les Paul and a Strat that didn't make it to the picture






The result? Love it!!
the whole amp grew up from a mini amp to a real amp, with my eyes closed I can't hear it is a small amp anymore, which i kept feeling a little with the 10" (not saying it is bad) and I love playing it now even more.
The 12" is just bigger in sound and especially the clean channel is much nicer now, because it was bit too bright to me especially with a strat. But also the gain channel is wider and fuller. The sound range of the amp just increased massively. 
Really have the practice amp i want now: a higher gain SL5 with an fx loop
Thanks to Micky  who gave me the idea to even think about a 12", otherwise i would have settled with a 10" vintage upgrade.


----------



## Micky

Glad you got it done. I had my doubts, and even recommended you not try it.

For me, I used a 3/8 drill with a depth limiter and a wide chisel to finish it up.
Then I painted the slot so you can't see it, even if you remove the speaker.
Only thing left is to install some t-nuts so I can use proper screws to hold the speaker to the cab. I also plan to install some t-nuts in the screw-holes that hold the back on, as the normal screws won't last long as they are. Just need to find some black ones... Any ideas where I can get black 10-32 t-nuts inexpensively?

The comment about an SL5 with a loop is very accurate. Also, there is no diode clipping in the DSL5c like there is in the SL5...


----------



## Dizzyg12

Great mod with the speaker guys! I don't know if I would take it that far, not that it's hard but something seems wrong about cutting into a new amp. Lol

Would a 10" v30 suffice? I love my v30 in the dsl40c. 

Makes ya wonder Marshall didn't just make the cab 1/2" bigger assuming guys would drop a 12 in there anyway.


----------



## Micky

I think they were trying to keep the costs down. Otherwise they would have put in a 25W Greenback. Yes, it is a moderate operation on the DSL5c, but the benefits are well worth it, especially if you use this amp as a grab-and-go type of amp.

Makes it heavy though, over 36 pounds now (17 kg)


----------



## JanB

Tonton said:


> Bought myself a 12" vintage 30 .



I see _a zoom ms-70 there, how do you like it?_


----------



## Tonton

JanB said:


> I see _a zoom ms-70 there, how do you like it?_



I think I wasn't hiding my opinion on it so far 

It is almost perfect match, I like some reverb on and had once a dual chorus Marshall before. Also with solo i like some delay.
The funny thing is all these should be in the loop and this DSL has one. 
The CDR70 (CDR: Chorus Delay Reverb) is exactly a matching loop pedal. Also it is relative cheap for the features.

How I use it:
I just made a line with best reverb, delay, chorus, vibe (should be in front, but sounds pretty good) and switch on what i like, it is very user friendly.
I don't like programmable stuff, but this interface is as if you have 4 manual pedals in front of you. which you can dial in with the 3 knobs. quite clever, per pedal you can switch easy to other types of CDR per pedal. By putting an extra 'pedal' bypass in the line it is easy to switch on and off also.
If you have a great sound you still have option to save 50 of them, which is handy for stage or jam. The button can then also be used to switch to next preset. I'm quite positively surprised by it and great match with this amp that is sort of lacking reverb.


----------



## JanB

Tonton said:


> I think I wasn't hiding my opinion on it so far
> 
> It is almost perfect match.



Good to know that they like each other, I think I will pass hall of fame and get this one.

Btw, since now you run your amp on 5 watt mode with a dummy load, is that still listenable with headphones? or you get a line out to computer and apply Cab IR's directly? I would like to hear some recordings if you have any.


----------



## Tonton

JanB said:


> Btw, since now you run your amp on 5 watt mode with a dummy load, is that still listenable with headphones? or you get a line out to computer and apply Cab IR's directly? I would like to hear some recordings if you have any.



What are you trying to achieve? 
There is headphone out option (1W) and then you want to use the non headphone out (5W) for headphone by using dummy load ... 
As I know a headphone is not made for line level, so better use the headphone setting for a headphone 

Recordings will take some time, need to have some free time to check how to get best tone. When i have i will send but could take some weeks.. So far i have the idea that I liked the TSL XLR line out more, but that is maybe because i was used to it. With the XLR i could dial volume in until interface clips while this DSL line out clips and compress itself it seems..


----------



## JanB

Tonton said:


> With the XLR i could dial volume in until interface clips while this DSL line out clips and compress itself it seems..



if you didnt like line out, then maybe you can try fx send with cab IR's. also the amp will be automatically silenced then as a bonus


----------



## paul-e-mann

Micky said:


> Glad you got it done. I had my doubts, and even recommended you not try it.
> 
> For me, I used a 3/8 drill with a depth limiter and a wide chisel to finish it up.
> Then I painted the slot so you can't see it, even if you remove the speaker.
> Only thing left is to install some t-nuts so I can use proper screws to hold the speaker to the cab. I also plan to install some t-nuts in the screw-holes that hold the back on, as the normal screws won't last long as they are. Just need to find some black ones... Any ideas where I can get black 10-32 t-nuts inexpensively?
> 
> The comment about an SL5 with a loop is very accurate. Also, there is no diode clipping in the DSL5c like there is in the SL5...



Micky I would love to hear some sound clips with the new speaker if you have any.


----------



## Micky

pedecamp said:


> Micky I would love to hear some sound clips with the new speaker if you have any.



No way. My playing sux, but tell you what.

Come on over, and play it yourself. Better yet - Organize a MF get together this summer and I will bring it along...


----------



## JanB

So today I finally got my DSL5C. Well I really loved it! I think it was a good decision to return the ht5 and get this.

Headphone emulated line out sounds a bit raw..it needs some cab simulation. But it sounds so good that I cant stop playing the damn thing.

I made a small record using its 1 watt emulated line out + cabinet Impulse responses on the computer.

https://soundcloud.com/icarusdream/ronda-part-iii


----------



## Tonton

Great JanB. Join the club!

For me same: also big difference HT5 and DSL5.
from mweh to wow nice..

I also did some silent recording on 5W with load resistor and quite happy now with resulting tone. Volume level around 3 to 4 is best for result to me, from around 4 especially low open e-string starts to sound distorted in unpleasant way.


----------



## JanB

Tonton said:


> Great JanB. Join the club!
> 
> For me same: also big difference HT5 and DSL5.
> from mweh to wow nice..
> 
> I also did some silent recording on 5W with load resistor and quite happy now with resulting tone. Volume level around 3 to 4 is best for result to me, from around 4 especially low open e-string starts to sound distorted in unpleasant way.



Ok this explains why my tone is different every hour LOL. Coming from amp modeling, volume always meant just volume to me. But yes for valves it has a direct impact on the tone.

But with headphones connected I quickly tested 1 watt and 5 watt line out(with dummy load) Interestingly they just sounded same! Maybe it sounds different on different settings I need to try.

BTW I have one question, I read somewhere that a guy blew his preamp tubes because he pushed them too hard, is that really possible? Does that mean I should never crank both gain and volume and a booster infront? 
tnx


----------



## Micky

Don't worry about pushing the tubes too hard.
Problem was probably a weak tube.

And why would you expect the headphone output to change?


----------



## JanB

Micky said:


> And why would you expect the headphone output to change?



For 2 reasons;

1- It says at 1 watt it acts like a headphone output and at 5 watts it acts like a line out. These are different signals to my knowledge

2- Even they are the same thing, I would expect a tone difference in 1watt vs 5 watt line outs. (As long as it is tapped after the power stage)


----------



## Tonton

JanB said:


> For 2 reasons;
> 
> 1- It says at 1 watt it acts like a headphone output and at 5 watts it acts like a line out. These are different signals to my knowledge
> 
> 2- Even they are the same thing, I would expect a tone difference in 1watt vs 5 watt line outs. (As long as it is tapped after the power stage)



well for sure it brings the larger headroom on the clean channel with 5W, so it is anyway valuable. To me linelevel setting gives me more confidence i have right output from amp rather than 'misuse' a headphone out..
Maybe technical it is almost same signal...

for reference how I record:
i use dummy load on speaker out, 5W, volume between 3-4, Line6 UX2 line in, ASIO4all drivers (faster than line6), Reaper x64, 48khz 24bit with 64 samples buffer, line out ux2 to Marantz pure direct setting (or UX2 headphone out as monitor).
This way i can record very low volume with latency of only 1.3ms.
And makes it easy to record and monitor layers without delay issues.


----------



## JanB

Tonton said:


> To me linelevel setting gives me more confidence i have right output from amp rather than 'misuse' a headphone out..
> Maybe technical it is almost same signal...



This is what I get from headphone out with cab IR'S, Which I think is very promising.

I re-edited and removed all reverb and crap from the mix, so you can hear the tone better. 

https://soundcloud.com/icarusdream/ronda-part-iii


----------



## Duffy49

Micky said:


> Good question.
> 
> I couldn't crank it too much, and I have yet to explore the 1W mode, but on the Classic channel the amp is really responsive to my playing. Notes were clean and clear, and as the volume went up (no gain control) it didn't get muddy or excessively harsh either, sounds typically like my Haze and similar to a C5 I played briefly at GC a while ago.
> 
> With my Strat I have a MHD custom wind set, with an extreme range between the neck and bridge. The bridge is wicked hot, and this pup lites up this amp! Almost too bright really, but adds to the definition when up around 8 or so on the volume. Really shows off my mistakes and sloppy style. Forgot to mention that I kinda suck at the guitar...
> 
> Can't wait to get this downstairs connected to the LP, probably won't need the deep switch...




The truth is always more interesting than fiction.

That sounds like a very nice strat.

I like the way your investigations tell it like it is; unlike the GFS type flowery poetic embellishments.

This is the most I've learned about this amp yet.

We messed around with one at a music store near me - the salesman and I. He managed to get some better than half way decent tones out of it at lower than bedroom level, and still high gain stimulating type guitar work.

It seemed like more than a half way decent amp after messing with it for less than a half hour.

I wonder how it compares to the DSL15C in terms of low volume tone.

I need to check into these more. 

Is there a headphone jack on the DSL15C or DSL5C? If you know off hand it would be interesting to know.


----------



## Micky

I can't speak for the DSL15c, but yes, the 5c has a headphone output (stereo).

I haven't paid too much attention, but does the DSL15c have an FX loop?


----------



## Tonton

JanB said:


> Btw, since now you run your amp on 5 watt mode with a dummy load, is that still listenable with headphones? or you get a line out to computer and apply Cab IR's directly? I would like to hear some recordings if you have any.



Finally had some time to do some recording.
recorded on 5W with dummy load, vol 3.5 with gain full, deep on, tone shift off.
Clean i had to go back to volume 2 to avoid crunch and boost little volume in the mix. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfHa8yuZWEg&hd=1


----------



## JanB

Speaking of dummy load, I had a chat with a long time valve amp builder chap, he also produces DI boxes, dummy loads etc.

so the dummy resistor value should be as close as possible to the speaker resistor value. And the wattage of the resistor should be 2-4 times higher.


----------



## Ed Hunter

any word on a head version of this?


----------



## Micky

No word as of yet, I don't even think it is in the works...


----------



## Ed Hunter

Micky said:


> No word as of yet, I don't even think it is in the works...



Wow thats too bad, i would have thought it would sell a lot more if marshall offered a head only but at least it has the effects loop i wanted


----------



## Tonton

used another resistor for dummy load: 50W 15Ohm
Gets pretty warm already (still can touch), wouldn't go lot lower in Watts


----------



## Micky

Well, it's time to start tinkering again...

Played this all morning long until my fingers hurt. Rocked on with my new Tele I got from Frankie. One would expect to have cleans and plenty of twang with this combination, but I was sadly mistaken. 

While there was plenty of twang at the guitar end, that twang ended at the input socket of the amp. Even with the guitar volume rolled back a bit it is nearly impossible to get cleans outta this amp. Oh how I miss the vol/gain combination of controls...

Maybe with the amp on 2, 5W mode I MIGHT be able to open up the guitar. I haven't plugged in the LP yet, but I will recon the 490/498 combo there won't be any cleaner. Don't get me wrong, if I really need Fender chimey wicked clean, I can go plug in downstairs to a vintage Fender and be done with it.

Time to bust out my collection of lo-gain preamp tubes...


----------



## MarshallMark

Micky said:


> I haven't plugged in the LP yet, but I will recon the 490/498 combo there won't be any cleaner.



I'm finding "clean" cleans come up a little short on my DSL5 with the hot pickups on the Wolfgang as well. Am considering ordering a Ruby for V1 to see how that works.


----------



## MarshallMark

I think I have unlocked the key to great tone in this amp- DO NOT scoop the mids too much!


----------



## Micky

Time to keep this thread alive.

Been looking at the power section, as well as the preamp, trying to figure this little beast out.

I also re-read my earlier posts, and it is now time to put my foot back into my mouth...

The tube sockets are PC board mounted, NOT chassis mounted as I had stated. My bad.
The power section is pretty standard for a push-pull class A/B design, except it uses a single 12BH7 as a final and a 12AX7 as a PI. The higher bias readings come from the fact that R65, the bias shunt resistor is a 10-ohm resistor, not the usual 1-ohm. This would explain the high bias readings (factor of 10).

Now that I have a 12" WGS Vet30 speaker installed, I think I might re-solder back in the brite cap (C31) as my treble is all gone...

The bias trimpot (TRIM1) controls the idle current on both halves of the 12BH7. In this case, from the factory they installed a TAD 12BH7a-STR, one of the best tubes you can get as far as a tall twin-triode is concerned. Here is the spec sheet for this tube:
http://www.tubesandmore.com/sites/default/files/assoc_files/t-12bh7a-tad.pdf

Because this amp has only 2 preamp tubes, it is my belief that they (Marshall designers) increased the gain on V1a to make up for the lack of the extra gain stage that an additional 12AX7 might provide. What really upsets me about this amp is the fact that they eliminated the Gain control for the Crunch channel, which effectively eliminates the possibility of getting any usable cleans out of this amp at any volume.

Maybe I am being a bit harsh here, you can get some cleans up to about 2 on the volume control, and past that you will need to use your guitar volume to roll back and get clean. This screams Plexi to me, and unless you are prepared for the obvious lack of clean headroom, this may not be the amp for you. That and the lack of reverb in this amp are the ONLY 2 things I wish Marshall had considered.

I mean after all, the DSL15, 40 and 100 all have separate Gain AND Volume controls for each channel, it would have been easy to install a 1M volume pot right after the preamp output just before the relay switch, and use the current volume control as a gain control.

Other notable points are that the bias test points are jumpered, that is, pins 1 and 3 are tied together. There is only 1 test point to check. Current as set from the factory was about 11ma (109mv measured across a 10-ohm shunt resistor) and that is the typical working current as specified by TAD. I have another 12BH7 to try and will report back after testing.

I have the chassis out and on the test bench, and will measure voltages and roll some preamp tubes this weekend if I get the chance.

Feel free to chime in with any questions and I will answer to the best of my ability...


----------



## MarshallMark

What I don't get is why not put a presence control on the DSL5 as well?! They put it on the JVM1C and it's quite usefull for getting top end bite.


----------



## mickeydg5

I would think that a bias current of 109mA on a 12BH7 would obviously indicate a bias monitoring resistor of a higher value than 1 ohm. What enlightened you to the conclusion? 
It is not a shunt resistor; it is a series monitoring resistor; your meter is placed in shunt. 

TAD's technical data wording is not 100% accurate. The maximum cathode current is not 20mA.  I will let you guys figure that one.


----------



## Micky

mickeydg5 said:


> I would think that a bias current of 109mA on a 12BH7 would obviously indicate a bias monitoring resistor of a higher value than 1 ohm. What enlightened you to the conclusion?
> It is not a shunt resistor; it is a series monitoring resistor; your meter is placed in shunt.
> 
> TAD's technical data wording is not 100% accurate. The maximum cathode current is not 20mA.  I will let you guys figure that one.



Picky picky...

So I got another 12BH7 from Marty, and the millivolt reading is in the above 200 range... What's up with that?

Anyway, nice call Mickey. Your input here is invaluable! (as in priceless!)


----------



## mickeydg5

Could it be that your other 12BH7 is a weak som-ma-da-a-bitt-tts. I do not know. How where they tested and what are their readings?


----------



## Micky

mickeydg5 said:


> Could it be that your other 12BH7 is a weak som-ma-da-a-bitt-tts. I do not know. How where they tested and what are their readings?



Dunno. Gonna look at that tonight or tomorrow. I think it might be the other way around, that this tube from Marty is wicked transconductive...

Thanks again for helping me get a handle on this little beast. With yours and everyone else's help we all will get a better understanding of what makes it tick!


----------



## Johnny Vintage

Just like any other small amp trying to sound big, this thing sucks as the volume is increased. Just a big pile of fizzle to my ears.

I sure miss the old days when I had my two 1978 2203 MV heads with the double stacked bottoms standing behind me. Those things just rocked. You could feel your bell bottoms blowing in the speaker wind.

My bass player had two giant Sunn Coliseum 300 amps with 4 15" speakers. It was a nice back line for our little 3 piece. That rig damn near shook you apart!!

I still have the stacks but now I'm using a 2103 100 watter combo that has the 2 12" McKenzie speakers. It's a 1978 too. Still can get pretty loud but I'm half deaf from playing big venues in the 70s and 80s. 

I'm hanging on to my vintage stuff until I need to start selling for retirement supplemental income. That won't be too long from know as I'm 62 this year. 

Still play on the weekends and still get yelled at by the sound man or bartender. Just part of the gig 

My wife says, "you should get a hearing aid!!" My response is "no way, I'll just get a bigger amp dear!!"


----------



## Micky

I hear ya, Johnny! Literally...

I don't think I am trying to sound big with this little thing, I think I want it to do things it wasn't designed to do. I have other amps if I need loud, and I have the option of mic'ing this amp or driving the direct out to another amp. Loud for me isn't the problem.

Thing of it is, it has tons of gain I don't really need. Truth is, most DSL's do. I dunno about the 1W DSL's, but I would imagine they could make a pointy-guitar angry-metal player very happy. I want chimey cleans, as well as crunchy crunch and fizzy fizz. All from one amp.

Understanding how they put this thing together is the first step, modding it to make it do the things I want is the last step. It is a great little practice amp, anad in that respect it is already pretty versatile. I just wanna get it to the point where I can dial in any tone I want and not have to worry about a lot of extra gear like FX or pedals. This needs to be a grab-and-go amp I can take anywhere and have it usable.

It might be asking too much, I know. But I am having a BLAST finding that out!


----------



## mickeydg5

Micky said:


> Dunno. Gonna look at that tonight or tomorrow. I think it might be the other way around, that this tube from Marty is wicked transconductive...
> 
> Thanks again for helping me get a handle on this little beast. With yours and everyone else's help we all will get a better understanding of what makes it tick!


You are not the first to make a statement like that. Why do you think that is, with my emphasis being on "the other way around"?


----------



## Micky

I know what you are referring to, that is, an excessive amount of current being drawn because something is wrong...

To be honest, as I said before, I dunno. I have to take Marty at his word when he says a tube is good. He has a good tube tester, I do not.

But why might you ask this? Let's hear the reasoning behind your query...


----------



## mickeydg5

No, that is not what I meant. I am not convinced there is an excessive amount of current nor that something is wrong. A weaker tube would exibit your TAD's characteristics. Marty's tube would be stronger.
I am saying I would take Marty's word over the TAD tube.

I said your tube (TAD) is weaker. You said it is the other way around which means opposite of what I stated. I wanted you to explain that.

I want to read your belief or understanding supporting your statement.

Add
I am not intentionally trying to bust balls but rather understand how people come to this conclusion. Like I mentioned I have heard similar before.


----------



## Micky

I figured you weren't busting my balls too much... But it is OK. I can take it...

Anyway, I was thinking more power=draw more current.
Or, the reverse... something partially shorted=draw more current.

So TAD's specs are wrong? 20ma max current seems about right to me, with 435 VDC 15ma is about 75% and should give 5 watts or so. Or is it their 'wording' is incorrect?


----------



## mickeydg5

Yes that is correct in that more current can correlate to more power. But as it relates to a tube's strenght or weakness, a stronger tube will require a colder bias to output the same power as that of a weaker tube. As for a shorting tube, that would hinder or halt operation which equates to weaker or dead.
How did Marty's tube sound? Could the bias be turned down to say 120mA? But then again what is average bias number for a 12BH7 in this amplifier? And do not forget that the bias monitoring is reading both halves at once on a 10R as you mentioned. 110mA is actually 5.5mA per side and 200mA is actually 10mA per side.

TAD's noted specifications are not wrong. Well, 20mA current is a design center maximum for a given specification set, which includes Class A with maximum plate voltage. Other data sheets state about the same. So what is wrong in a sense is the way it is stated and then interpreted because 20mA is not an absolute maximum current number.

I do not know where you got 435V from. Where are the amplifier voltages?


----------



## Micky

Voltages on V3 (12BH7a-STR) All are VDC relative to chassis ground:

Pin1 - 435
Pin2 - 22
Pin3 - 109
Pin4 - 21mv
Pin5 - 12.5
Pin6 - 435
Pin7 - 22
Pin8 - 109mv
Pin9 - 6.3

I think at this point I am at a much more comfortable level understanding the innards of this amplifier. I know many of you will poo-poo this thing, I mean after all it is only a 5W combo... But I don't care. There is virtually NO info about this amp in the Internet, especially the design and bias info. I personally feel this is critical for longevity and maintenance, I need this thing to work in every situation no matter what style of guitar is plugged in.

Another bit of info - I got an additional 12BH7a and the bias range is much higher than the original TAD. With the OEM tube the typical range is 65mv-255mv as measured at the bias test pin. (6.5ma-25.5ma current) With the second 12BH7a the range is much higher, 135mv-335mv (13.5ma-33.5ma). The TRIM1 bias pot has a 0 to -10v range as measured on the trimpot.

Running the second 12BH7a at 135mv sounds great. I also reconnected the brite cap, and installed 12AT7 tubes in V1 and V2. This in my opinion puts the amp in my comfortable range, I can max the gain on the Ultra channel and still use the amp for anything I might need hi-gain or a solo boost for.

I am still curious enough to roll some more different tube though...

It allows for decent cleans up to about 5 on the dial for the Crunch channel (it is labeled Clean, but past 5 it is definitely Crunch territory) and that is exactly what I need. The tamed gain, and the WGS Vet30 have eliminated the need to clip the brite cap, so turns out you can get this thing modded well without getting into the chassis. Tubes, speaker and possibly bias is all that is needed.


----------



## mickeydg5

Well that does tell a tale with 435V on the plates and -22V on the control grids. 135mA may sound good but I believe 200mA is the median which would place about 10mA idle bias current on each half of the 12BH7. But whatever sounds best matters most.

See, I told you Marty's tube was stonger. I take it that is the additional 12BH7.

The so called CLEAN is actually CLASSIC GAIN channel. It is supposed to have crunch in the later half of the dial. But if you want both channels a little cleaner then drop the gain of the first stage V1. I know you dropped two 12AT7 tubes in the first two slots and that will reduce gain quite a bit. I would however also suggest trying a 12AT7 in the PI slot while testing 12AY7 and 5751 in the first slot.

Here are some other combination suggestions.
V1..........V2............PI......
12AY7.....12AX7.....12AT7
12AY7.....12AU7.....12AX7
5751.......12AX7.....12AT7
5751.......12AU7.....12AX7
and stuff like that.
The 12AY7, 5751 and 12AU7 should generally be more musical than a 12AT7.

You need to note and post other tube pin voltages. Do not swap just any tube in a slot where there is higher voltage on the cathode. You should only place 12AU7 and 12AX7 in those spots.


----------



## Micky

These are all great suggestions!

I am gonna play it a bit and test different bias levels with the current setup.
Like I said in my previous post, I am really satisfied with how it is turning out.

I have the other voltage readings, but will take final readings once it is all set.
Surprisingly, I have no 12AY7's in my collection...
But I have all weekend before I button this thing back up, I still need to get some new screws for the back, I am in the process of replacing those screws with black #10-32 X 1.5 oval head machine screws with t-nuts permanently installed in the combo case. Taking the back off and on all the time tends to strip out the threads in the HDF... These particular screws are very difficult to find...


----------



## stedyedy45

Hi! I just got a Boss ME 70 effects pedal for my DSL 5c thinking it would just add effects to my amp but it seems to just turn it into a modelling amp and the tone I like from the DSL changes to the tone from the unit.

I wondering if anyone here owns an ME70 and knows how to get around it? 

This is my first tube amp after learning electric guitar with a fender mustang so adding pedals is new to me.

Any help would be appreciated

cheers


----------



## Tonton

stedyedy45 said:


> Hi! I just got a Boss ME 70 effects pedal for my DSL 5c thinking it would just add effects to my amp but it seems to just turn it into a modelling amp and the tone I like from the DSL changes to the tone from the unit.
> 
> I wondering if anyone here owns an ME70 and knows how to get around it?
> 
> This is my first tube amp after learning electric guitar with a fender mustang so adding pedals is new to me.
> 
> Any help would be appreciated
> 
> cheers


I had a ME70 also, it depends what you want to achieve with it.
Don't use the pre-amp part, it is to replace your pre-amp DSL on a clean poweramp signal.
About the others it depends on where you place it and what you want.
Wah or overdrive put it in front. Modulation like delay, chorus, reverb put it in the loop.

You have to choose, because it doesn't support 4 cable method, by missing fx loop on the me70. (anyway never liked 4 cable method that much)


----------



## stedyedy45

Tonton said:


> I had a ME70 also, it depends what you want to achieve with it.
> Don't use the pre-amp part, it is to replace your pre-amp DSL on a clean poweramp signal.
> About the others it depends on where you place it and what you want.
> Wah or overdrive put it in front. Modulation like delay, chorus, reverb put it in the loop.
> 
> You have to choose, because it doesn't support 4 cable method, by missing fx loop on the me70. (anyway never liked 4 cable method that much)



Would it work to plug both cabels from the ME 70 into the effects loop and the guitar into the front of the DSL? or is that what you meant by the 4 cable method? I would try it now but i'll need to get another lead.

I mainly want to use it for the delay, reverb and looper but I want to keep the sound of my amp and not the modelled sound.

Thanks for the reply


----------



## Micky

Yes, I think if you connect it as you have described you will be OK.
Best to have distortion and such in the front of the amp, and delay, reverb and chorus etc. in the loop.

Curious how the reverb is in your unit...


----------



## stedyedy45

Micky said:


> Yes, I think if you connect it as you have described you will be OK.
> Best to have distortion and such in the front of the amp, and delay, reverb and chorus etc. in the loop.
> 
> Curious how the reverb is in your unit...


 
Cheers i'll try it when I get another lead.

The ME 70 in it own right is actually very good, it has some great tones and effects and the reverb sounds good to me. Just hope I can get it to add reverb to the Marshall tone. If not i'll get a reverb pedal and a delay,do you recommend any for my particular amp?
Cheers


----------



## mickeydg5

I would place the ME-70 in the loop and use minimum DSL5 distortion in conjunction with minimum ME-70 sound processing. Find a good balance between the two pieces of gear for a core sound so you can make use of all the features. Afterwards you can mix as much effects processing into the signal as desired on the tail end before going back into the DSL5 loop return.

Do not be afraid to program your own stuff and save to get the right, the best or the desired sound for each patch/program or whatever.

Add
Oh by the way, a modeling amplifier is just an amplifier with built in sound and effects processing.


----------



## Tonton

stedyedy45 said:


> Cheers i'll try it when I get another lead.
> 
> The ME 70 in it own right is actually very good, it has some great tones and effects and the reverb sounds good to me. Just hope I can get it to add reverb to the Marshall tone. If not i'll get a reverb pedal and a delay,do you recommend any for my particular amp?
> Cheers



it is nice peace of gear, no programming just switch pedal to right mode and dial in with knobs as if you have real pedals.
I replaced it with Zoom CDR70, just because it is smaller and focussed on what i want permanent in the loop (all modulation). but that is just me, the me70 will work also great in loop for the modulation, but know you can't use the other features at the same time (wah, distortion) anyway so i thought time for something new  (GAS excuse also)


----------



## stedyedy45

Thanks for the help all, I'm looking forward to trying those ideas out.


----------



## mickeydg5

Just note that the ME-70, like most processors, has lots of options.
The unit has both manual and memory modes. In order to used saved parameters and patches it has to be in memory mode.

So it does have programming capability. Always read the manual and get aquainted with a piece of gear.


----------



## stedyedy45

Just for the record the DSL5c + Boss ME70 plugged into send and return in the effects loop and the guitar in the front of the amp works and sounds fantastic, much better than having the guitar plugged into the ME 70.
The missus said it sounded like the 02 arena in our housethen told me to switch it off 
Thanks for the advice all
Steve


----------



## Micky




----------



## stedyedy45

she's scarier than him.


----------



## Micky

Been looking for an inexpensive reverb unit to put in the FX loop.
Now that I have some decent cleans, I am starting to miss it.

Haven't tried an OD in this amp yet. Don't really need it with all the gain on Ultra...


----------



## Tonton

Micky said:


> Been looking for an inexpensive reverb unit to put in the FX loop.
> Now that I have some decent cleans, I am starting to miss it.
> Haven't tried an OD in this amp yet. Don't really need it with all the gain on Ultra...



Really consider that Zoom CDR70, has all nice modulation in one easy box.
I have it with two firm Fender patch cables on top of amp and screen stays this way 45 degrees visible on top of handle, instead of using it on the floor. (see pic on page 4 of this topic)
To me it is great match, i can dial in some delay, reverb or chorus when i want it also in series, really easy to operate and not that expensive.


----------



## Micky

Yeah it is here:
http://www.marshallforum.com/marshall-amps/63682-dsl5c-ultimate-lo-power-amp-3.html#post1058280

Have more speakers on the way to try in this beast. Mainly because I wanna pull the WGS Vet30 I have in there now for the DSL40c...


----------



## JanB

I owned the Zoom MS70 for around a month then I returned it got a *hall of fame*.. Since than I don't have back pains and I have more time for playing

Zoom is really good if you will use a lot of modulation effects; chorus, phase..delays..etc

I noticed that %90 time all I need is some reverb which I should control easily ..and with zoom I found myself %90 of the time hunched over the amps FX loop, press back and forward through effects to skip that annoying dsp is full warning(Tho it says you can dial 6 stomps, if you have one HD reverb then there is already very little processor power left..plus choose a nice delay and dsp is full)..click, click, click, click..and try to get a decent effect with pains in my back..user interface is really horrible..

*Hall of fame mini *can be very good if you look for a minimal reverb pedal

Apart from that..My latest additions to the DSL5c:
MXR 6 band EQ to the FX loop..it really makes a difference! 
Grey modded Dod250...finally got very close to the malmsteenish tone, highly distorted yet it is clean and I can hear the wood..

And a Palmer PDI09 speaker simulator/DI box for recording and silent practising.*.*I don't use the line out anymore, speaker out goes to Palmer
*
Now *I'm a happy man


----------



## Duffy49

Micky said:


> Time to keep this thread alive.
> 
> 
> What really upsets me about this amp is the fact that they eliminated the Gain control for the Crunch channel, which effectively eliminates the possibility of getting any usable cleans out of this amp at any volume.
> 
> Maybe I am being a bit harsh here, you can get some cleans up to about 2 on the volume control, and past that you will need to use your guitar volume to roll back and get clean. This screams Plexi to me, and unless you are prepared for the obvious lack of clean headroom, this may not be the amp for you. That and the lack of reverb in this amp are the ONLY 2 things I wish Marshall had considered.
> 
> I mean after all, the DSL15, 40 and 100 all have separate Gain AND Volume controls for each channel, it would have been easy to install a 1M volume pot right after the preamp output just before the relay switch, and use the current volume control as a gain control.
> 
> I have the chassis out and on the test bench, and will measure voltages and roll some preamp tubes this weekend if I get the chance.
> 
> Feel free to chime in with any questions and I will answer to the best of my ability...



A note on the subject of there not being both a volume and gain knob on the clean channel: when I tested the DSL5c the other day I was disappointed to find that the clean channel did not have a gain knob.

I only played it at low volume, but it sounded like a decent amp, compared to many five watt amps. I have a Blackheart Little Giant head at five watts and it does not have nearly the tone shaping control of the DSL5c. Actually a friend from another forum offered to have me send him the Blackheart after it blew out on me, and he fixed it for only the cost of parts and shipping. He also installed a "Variable Voltage Regulator" (VVR) on the head that lets you tune in a lot of gain at very low volumes. He put the knob on the back and it works well. Have you ever heard of a VVR?

Good luck with that nice little combo.

By the way, Micky, did you know Bobby "Fats" Howard, from Glens Falls, NY. He was a spectacular keyboardist and singer in many bands and was well known in a wide area. He was a good friend of mine since I was a young child. I thought you may have known of him because of the number of bands he played in over the course of his life.


----------



## Micky

I may have heard of him, it sounds strangely familiar!

I cut my teeth so to speak in the Southern VT, Troy, NY area as well as Pittsfield MA. We were the house band for a year or so in a little town called Hoosick Falls, between Troy and Bennington. Those were my old stomping grounds. We used to pick up all the little gigs the bigger bands from Albany threw our way. Saratoga and Glens Falls were always too far to drive, it was rare we had a car that could drive an hour without service of some sort. You know how it is.

And yeah, the 5c is a great combo. Been using it a bit more as of late, and I was also a bit disappointed about the lack of gain control on the Classic channel. I have a 12AT7 in V2, and it is in such a sweet spot right now I don't wanna change it.

Now that I have that amp working well, time to work on the DSL40c...


----------



## Rocktane

Tonton said:


> Really consider that Zoom CDR70, has all nice modulation in one easy box.
> I have it with two firm Fender patch cables on top of amp and screen stays this way 45 degrees visible on top of handle, instead of using it on the floor. (see pic on page 4 of this topic)
> To me it is great match, i can dial in some delay, reverb or chorus when i want it also in series, really easy to operate and not that expensive.



Thanks for posting about the CDR70. I hadn't heard of this unit before so I did some research. I have been looking in to cheap reverb and delay pedals for my 5150 III because I keep it in another part of the house, away from my other gear. This looks like it will do the job, and more, for less money!


----------



## aryan

Hi Micky, is it possible to use the pure clean tone on DSL5c with the volume up to 4 or 5?


----------



## Micky

aryan said:


> Hi Micky, is it possible to use the pure clean tone on DSL5c with the volume up to 4 or 5?


In stock form, no.
BUT - You can turn up the volume quite a bit then turn down the guitar to get clean tones. Also, by swapping some tubes you can get clean tone up to 4 or so.

The Classic Gain Channel is just that, classic gain. Much like a Plexi style of amp. There is very little clean headroom on this amp in stock form.


----------



## aryan

Micky said:


> In stock form, no.
> BUT - You can turn up the volume quite a bit then turn down the guitar to get clean tones. Also, by swapping some tubes you can get clean tone up to 4 or so.
> 
> The Classic Gain Channel is just that, classic gain. Much like a Plexi style of amp. There is very little clean headroom on this amp in stock form.





Right, Now I get, thanks a lot for you feedback!
I have been reading some informations about the swapping tubes on this amp, but nothing precisely. Do you know which tube do I need to swap to get a clean tone?
Many Thanks!
Cheers!
Rock on!


----------



## Micky

V2 is the tube I swapped out.
I put a 12AT7a in for the 12AX7a.
Lowered the gain to where I like it a lot.

It may not be right for you though...


----------



## aryan

Micky said:


> V2 is the tube I swapped out.
> I put a 12AT7a in for the 12AX7a.
> Lowered the gain to where I like it a lot.
> 
> It may not be right for you though...



Pretty thanks Micky!
Just for the record, if this swap gives you a clean tone when you turned the volume up to 5, it will works fine for me! I love the crunch but I really need to use a clean tone in some cases!
Thanks again!


----------



## Mockingbird

.


----------



## Micky

Yes, the 12AT7a has a gain factor of approximately 60.


----------



## deweystone

Absolutely going to get a good reverb pedal to plug into the efx loop myself your 12" looks good I almost got a DSL15C but its just too much power at home. This DSL line is special. I can still rehearse scales and gig stuff on the classic gain and I can crank it and gig in 5w mode on channel 1 with treble real low to middle also!


----------



## Micky

Been looking at the Boss RV-5, wish I could afford the RE-20...


----------



## Duffy49

Micky said:


> Been looking at the Boss RV-5, wish I could afford the RE-20...



I would like to see exactly how you put that twelve inch speaker in that and which speaker you chose. A decent reverb pedal would definitely be nice.

I may get one of these amps at some point.

I don't see why my Boss OD-3 wouldn't sound anything less than spectacular thru the clean channel. I have been very impressed with it lately.

Beautiful amp Micky. How do you think it stacks up to the DSL15c, from a subjective point of view? Twelve inch speaker, at least "some" kind of reverb, and the gain/volume knob on the clean channel. Maybe an effects loop isn't that important.

Can you keep your volumes down a lot lower with your amp as compared to the 15c?

Beautiful little amp. I played one for a short time at a store. Maybe they still have one. Either that or the 15c I spotted in my peripheral vision the other day. I'm highly interested in the Squier Anniv. gold CV strat they have there. It is a very special guitar.


----------



## Micky

The info about how I fit a 12" speaker into the DSL5c is here:
http://www.marshallforum.com/marshall-amps/63682-dsl5c-ultimate-lo-power-amp-3.html#post1056541
Sorry there is no photo of the slot I cut into the bottom of the cab. Even now after I have painted the slot black to match the inside of the cab, it is difficult to see. But that is the hardest part of the whole process, to cut a slot without destroying the bottom of the cab.

Another consideration, is to insure the tubes clear the speaker frame. Dry fitting everything several times before putting everything together permanently is the key to a rattle-free installation.

As you can see from the previous post, I fit a WGS Vet30 in there, and I do have to admit it sounds pretty good. The sound hole on the speaker baffle is still 10", but this is not too big a consideration for me, as I could put the 10" back in if I ever decided to sell this amp. As far as if it interferes with the 12" speaker, the cork-sniffers will poo-poo just about anything I might accomplish, so I am not much worried about that aspect, because it sounds just fine.

I have used the amp a couple times in a group/band setting, and I didn't need to get it up past 6. I don't play screaming leads, mind you, but it is PLENTY loud enough now to keep up with the percussion section and still be heard.

Comparing this to the DSL15c or the DSL40c is apples and oranges. Those amps are dual-final amps, where this amp uses both sides of a preamp tube as a final output. Those amps are much louder, a more fair comparison would be comparing it to a Class5, or even the DSL1c or DSL1h Anniversary Edition amps. Even comparing it to the SL-5 is going a bit far. 

The 15c has no loop, and has a gain control for the Classic channel. The DSL5c has a loop, but NO gain control for the Classic channel. This has been a gripe of mine since I got the amp, there is no way to dial back the gain on that channel, it is a 2-channel, 2-mode amp stuck in the Plexi/ODII configuration. Some people can live with that, personally I need the Clean/Crunch/ODI modes...

Other than that, the 15c is slightly larger, big enough to fit a 12"speaker as stock.

Sorry to be so long-winded. Hope this helps a bit Duff!


----------



## Marshall_Watts87

the ultimate low power amps are the 1 watt series but they're gone


----------



## MarshallMatters

Hi micky , in terms of tone how do you compare the DSL5c from the Others DSLs , i mean for the demos i heard, the DSL5c ultra gain channel sounds much better than this other new DSLs, much closer to the 1 watt anniversary DSL for ex , even reminded a little bit of JCM 800 vibe ( I know blasphemy, but just for the sake of comparison ^^), than the Usual ULTRA HYPER MEGA high gain from the ultra channel of the 15h and the others but just for the sake of comparison , am i right in my assumptions , what do u and the others think ?


----------



## Micky

This is difficult, because you are comparing a 12BH7 to an EL34. These are two different beasts. Apples to oranges kind of, although they both operate in the same fashion.

The Ultra channel sounds similar, yes, but now that I have modded my speaker, they are even more similar. Tons of gain if you want it, but definitely darker and not as bright. I have modded my DSL40 a bit and they now sound remarkably similar. I would say the 5c sounds pretty good outta the box, but I know I could make it sound better. 

I have never played a 1W Marshall,, other than flipping the switch on the back of the 5c to 1W mode. This cuts the clean headroom a lot, as you have to turn it up in this mode, and as soon as you get past 4 you are into some pretty good crunch in the Classic channel, and on the Ultra channel you have a gain control as well as volume, so that channel is much more controllable. Forget about much clean tone unless you play below bedroom levels at the volume an acoustic guitar might put out.

Trying hard to answer your question, but in all reality I can't. You gotta go play one somewhere and compare it for yourself.


----------



## MarshallMatters

Thanx for the quick reply micky  , i've been G.A.Sing real bad for a low wattage tube marshall to play at home for some time , i have a Blackstar HT1 for home use and a JCM 800 2203 reissue for my gigs, but i like the marshall tone a lot more than the blackstar (blackstar sounds good but doesnt have the mojo that good tube marshalls have  ) so i think i'm in the market for a DSL 5c cuz i dont wanna spend that much on DSL 1 and its getting really hard to find these 50th heads nowadays where i live anyway , thanx for the advices i'm gonne check the DSL 5c but def gonna plug it on my 1x12 V30 closed cab since i 'm not a huge fan of '10 speakers


----------



## Micky

MarshallMatters said:


> Thanx for the quick reply micky  , i've been G.A.Sing real bad for a low wattage tube marshall to play at home for some time , i have a Blackstar HT1 for home use and a JCM 800 2203 reissue for my gigs, but i like the marshall tone a lot more than the blackstar (blackstar sounds good but doesnt have the mojo that good tube marshalls have  ) so i think i'm in the market for a DSL 5c cuz i dont wanna spend that much on DSL 1 and its getting really hard to find these 50th heads nowadays where i live anyway , thanx for the advices i'm gonne check the DSL 5c but def gonna plug it on my 1x12 V30 closed cab since i 'm not a huge fan of '10 speakers



See that's the thing, I am not a fan of 10 inchers either, I had a Fender combo with 4 10's, and while it was OK for wicked clean stuff, I never cared for the overdriven sound from them. Same held true for the 5c. and I can sleep great at might knowing I have one of very few 5c's that sounds like it does and not only sounds great, it fits my style and playing ability too.

I have my 5c right in the living room, so I haven't had the chance to plug it into an external cab much. When I first got it I plugged into one of my 4X12's, and it sounded fantastic. I hope to soon have a 2X12 (for portability's sake) and may give it a shot thru a cab then.

By all means try one. You know what to look for...


----------



## guitarman3001

Man, this little amp is still killing me. As I've mentioned on other threads, I have a DSL40C and a Blackstar HT5R combo but am also wanting a lighter Marshall so I can get close to the DSL40C's sound without breaking my aging back. My neurotic self can't figure out if I should just stick to the DSL40 for large gigs and the Blackstar for my usual small gigs and be happy with what I have or if the DSL5 will be close enough to the DSL40's sound to make me happy.

I'm curious, has anyone tried a different 10" speaker in it? I'm pretty sure I wouldn't like the stock speaker.


----------



## Micky

Yes, I tried a WGS 10" smooth cone. Got it on sale. Sounds killer!
Much better than the stock speaker...


----------



## Redstone

I had the chance to play through a DSL5C today. I just plugged into it to try a few guitars and was blown away. It sounded much better than I would have expected. I got to try it with a singe coil loaded Strat, P90 loaded Les Paul and humbucker loaded SG. All sounded great. The clean channel with the Strat was really good. I might have to pick one of these up at some point. I wish I had the time to have played the 15C, 15H and 40C.

How does the 5C compare to the 15C and 15H? Similar or a completely different beast? All I know is thats its got a effects loop and the others don't, as well as different power tubes/speaker.


----------



## Micky

Redstone said:


> I had the chance to play through a DSL5C today. I just plugged into it to try a few guitars and was blown away. It sounded much better than I would have expected. I got to try it with a singe coil loaded Strat, P90 loaded Les Paul and humbucker loaded SG. All sounded great. The clean channel with the Strat was really good. I might have to pick one of these up at some point. I wish I had the time to have played the 15C, 15H and 40C.
> 
> How does the 5C compare to the 15C and 15H? Similar or a completely different beast? All I know is thats its got a effects loop and the others don't, as well as different power tubes/speaker.



I need to spend more time with this amp and my Strat... 

Anyway, this amp compared to the ones you listed is a different beast.
It uses a 12BH7 as a final power tube, where the ones you mentioned use a pair of 6V6's.
While the preamp circuitry is very similar, the output section is different.
Also, the 10" speaker is at a distinct disadvantage to the 15c that use a 12".

Read thru this thread to see what I did with mine.
This is truly one of Marshall's hidden gems...


----------



## Tonton

Guys, 

I think you can appreciate this clip about DSL5:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UcUzENeSo0]zZounds.com: Marshall DSL5C Promo - YouTube[/ame]

I sold mine 
Had to choose between my Blue EL34 6101 or the DSL5 (space issues)
To be honest: have to admit the DSL5 sounds better high gain than Ch3 6101. 

But the 6101 has this very nice deep clean and Amazing Hendrix to Rock Ch2 which i really love.


----------



## MarshallMatters

Hey Guys well i bought the DSL 5c like a week ago after testing it for 3 days on a music store near me , well i didnt reviewed before , because i might be biased , cuz u know honeymoon period is always sweet with any new amp . Well i have a JCM 800 2203 Reissue that i play it through a 4x12 1960a cab loaded wit V30s , play blues classic rock hard rock and metal ( nothing too extreme just sabath , ozzy , metallica and the early stuff) so i know how a good tube marshall should sound ( or at least i think i know ^^) . Anyway the thing that got me into this amp was the same old problems with tube amps , they're freaking loud so the JCM is used mostly for rehearsals and gigs and i wanted a tube tone at home ( marshall tube tone most precisely) and i hated the new DSLs series with the exception of the 40c , wich i dont consider a "bedroom amp" even being as good as it is. Enough with the intro , well i saw this thread and was considering giving it a try on the DSL 5c , mostly because on the demos i heard he sounded nothing like his older brothers , no fizzy high gain on channel 2 , has the FX loop the lacks on the 15h and combo and the tone ( wich is the most important thing to me ) was better than the others too ( exception made for the 40c that sounds really good too but its 2 loud for my purposes) . So i tested the amp on the store with a les paul studio and it sounded really good , even with the 10 speaker , the deep button helps a lot in there and considering that i also own a 1x12 cab with a V30 on it i was hooked and took the amp home  . My complaints are the same as others here , clean channel with NMV was a mistake IMHO , lack of reverb wasnt ( FX loop is there for a reason, i know it will cost u more but its worth it IMHO) so i plugged my Les Paul replica (handmade not china ^^) on the amp and out of the box it sounded REALLY GOOD , better than i was expecting , this thing sounds nothing like a "practice amp" ,if u dont play in a band and plays only at home i strongly suggest u buy this amp , like mikki said it is a gem , when marshall makes a mistake they make HUGE mistakes (15h and 15 IMHO) but when they make a good amp they nailed it and on this one , thats what they did , but i give a 9 to it cuz it needed a volume on the clean channel for those the like to play clean stuff ( i dont so the amp is great for my purposes) . The OD channel sounds very good the gain is nothing like his older brothers , no fizzy and no ULTRA MEGA gain , sounds a lot like my JCM with more gain but i dont think thats a fair comparison either , but its a great , now i can practice my backing tracks for my gigs with killer marshall tone without shattering windows ^^ ( but be careful cuz even 5 watts its very loud for tube i never pass 3 for ex playing at home with this thing , and a 12 speaker is ideal for this amp so consider a upgrade in the future or do it like i do and plug on external ( but i have to say the 10 stock impressed me i thought it would be a mess and sounded really good) i'm a happy dude for now


----------



## MarshallMatters

And Thanx Mikki , for clarifying some stuff about the amp when i posted here some weeks ago , that was really helpful  , i might add that the amp takes pedals really well too, i use a ZW-44 OD in front of the OD channel for solos and a Boss RV-3 on the loop like i do on my JCM and it rocks \m/ ( just stay away of this amp if u like a lot of headroom on the clean channel , buy a fender if u want that kind of tone)


----------



## Micky

MarshallMatters said:


> And Thanx Mikki , for clarifying some stuff about the amp when i posted here some weeks ago , that was really helpful  , i might add that the amp takes pedals really well too, i use a ZW-44 OD in front of the OD channel for solos and a Boss RV-3 on the loop like i do on my JCM and it rocks \m/ ( just stay away of this amp if u like a lot of headroom on the clean channel , buy a fender if u want that kind of tone)



I have to agree, clean headroom is the ONE feature (or drawback) that I have been struggling with since I got this amp. There is virtually NONE...

I DID reduce the gain on the Classic channel a bit, search thru this thread for my tube selection that made it more usable for me. I wanted to try tubes, speakers and other non-invasive stuff before I broke out the soldering pencil to reduce the gain even further.

Anyway, feel free to post your other experiences with this amp here, this thread is for you guys to show off your stuff!


----------



## Lorhar34

Unless my UPS man dies in a firey crash I will be taking possession of this baby tomorrow. This has been a good read & thanks Micky for being the guinea pig. And I love your tenacity for trying to get a cleanish amp out of an amp that's basically labeled "gain channel" and "loads of gain channel"! Lol. I operate in crunch to medium gain mostly and do worry a bit about having too much gain (or at least too much modern sound) so I'll probably need to try your 12AT7 suggestion.

I needed another amp like another hole I'm my head but got a good deal on a MF re-stock. I'm hoping the DSL5C can replace my "Lyle Mod" Class 5 and Blackheart Killer Ant. I'm surprised no one has talked more about the 1 watt mode. That was a big draw for me. I own & have owned several other low watt amps & know how loud 5 watts can be when driven. I used to have a 1 watt Blackstar HT1 which I liked (through a bigger cab) & briefly owned an HT5 which sounded like digital garbage. Side by side with my Class5, even before the mods, the Marshall just killed it. 

For those wondering about a speaker swap, even though I don't have this amp (yet) in general, you might get a slight improvement swapping 10s on any amp, but are likely to be disappointed over all. If portability isn't an issue, second-hand cabs are cheap and so is a pine board to cobble your own cab- just go for a 12 and not only will you be more satisfied, but have tons more speaker choices. If you have no room for an external cab, trying an EQ pedal in the FX loop would probably do more than just swapping the 10 for another 10. God bless those who shoehorn a 12 into this thing. I don't have the heart to chop up a nice new amp.

Also someone had asked about this amp w/ a Boss Me-70. I have an ME-80 that's so good I am selling most of my real pedals (except EQ and Wah), but I don't expect the higher gain preamps or OD/Distortions to sound good w/ any amp that already has so much gain. I'll probably only use the Boss in the loop of this amp.


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## stillrockin

i have the sl5 : problem
if you want a good sound, you must play loud so, with 5W

so, impossible and there are a lot of problems: big noise when we change the channels 
and others
so
for the dsl5, does it sound really good at 1w ? if it has less high ends, it must be played with 5w but not in a bedroom

the dsl1 has only 8" and i think it is a bad thing


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## Tonton

stillrockin said:


> i have the sl5 : problem
> if you want a good sound, you must play loud so, with 5W
> 
> so, impossible and there are a lot of problems: big noise when we change the channels
> and others
> so
> for the dsl5, does it sound really good at 1w ? if it has less high ends, it must be played with 5w but not in a bedroom
> 
> the dsl1 has only 8" and i think it is a bad thing



DSL5c has really great sounds at low volume. the DEEP button comes her to full effect! 1W and 5W sounds same to me, except earlier breakup and duh less volume 
I don't know about tone itself but DSL1 as a head could be nice with a 12" cabinet. It also has the split in volume / gain on clean channel
But! as I know it are complete different amps, so I would love a side by side comparison and see how sound difference is.


----------



## Lorhar34

It takes me a lot longer to make an informed decision on an amp but here are my early thoughts after a couple of days. First, if I needed to play this thing dimed, at full 5 watts on either channel, it would already be back in the box and headed back to MF because it's a boomy/trebly mess at that level, even through my 112 cab (Weber Heritage 12 clone) and even with the treble turned all the way down. Rolling back the guitar tone helps a little but things get muddy before the high is cut enough. So far I've only played w/ buckers but Im usually a SSS Strat guy, so this is a problem. But luckily I do not need loud. I've gotten rid of amps that sound killer at that volume level because I rarely get to turn it up that loud. 

I've been playing through my own cab mostly, but just tried playing w/ the stock speaker for a bit. On one watt, it sounds pretty wimpy. On 5 watts w/ volumes no more than mid-way or so, it's not bad at all & will likely get better if I ever break it in.

Through my 112 it's a different story- the 1 watt sounds incredible- better than the HT1 I used to have and better than the Killer Ant I have now. For this alone it's probably a keeper for me. I can get inspiring sounds all across the dials. In 5 watt mode as long as volume isn't too far above noon it's pretty nice too. In 1 or 5 watt, harmonics just jump out all over. Sweet! 
I haven't tried EQ (or anything else) in the loop, other pedals, or tube swaps yet.


----------



## MarshallMatters

stillrockin said:


> i have the sl5 : problem
> if you want a good sound, you must play loud so, with 5W
> 
> so, impossible and there are a lot of problems: big noise when we change the channels
> and others
> so
> for the dsl5, does it sound really good at 1w ? if it has less high ends, it must be played with 5w but not in a bedroom
> 
> the dsl1 has only 8" and i think it is a bad thing



Yeah it sounds very good at the 1w mode for bedroom practice , i play through this mode at night , to keep my neighbors from hating me ( they didnt like the 2203 days if u know what i mean  , but as said above , i play through a external 112 cab with a V30 on it so it gives a more SL-5 with more gain tone (not saying i didnt like the 10 stock at 1w mode its good but the tone with the V30 on 1w mode for bedroom practice is something i never thougt it would be possible to achieve like 15 years ago when i started playing , i'm pretty happy with this amp thats for sure it has the marshall mojo on it


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## Duffy49

Lorhar34 said:


> It takes me a lot longer to make an informed decision on an amp but here are my early thoughts after a couple of days. First, if I needed to play this thing dimed, at full 5 watts on either channel, it would already be back in the box and headed back to MF because it's a boomy/trebly mess at that level, even through my 112 cab (Weber Heritage 12 clone) and even with the treble turned all the way down. Rolling back the guitar tone helps a little but things get muddy before the high is cut enough. So far I've only played w/ buckers but Im usually a SSS Strat guy, so this is a problem. But luckily I do not need loud. I've gotten rid of amps that sound killer at that volume level because I rarely get to turn it up that loud.
> 
> I've been playing through my own cab mostly, but just tried playing w/ the stock speaker for a bit. On one watt, it sounds pretty wimpy. On 5 watts w/ volumes no more than mid-way or so, it's not bad at all & will likely get better if I ever break it in.
> 
> Through my 112 it's a different story- the 1 watt sounds incredible- better than the HT1 I used to have and better than the Killer Ant I have now. For this alone it's probably a keeper for me. I can get inspiring sounds all across the dials. In 5 watt mode as long as volume isn't too far above noon it's pretty nice too. In 1 or 5 watt, harmonics just jump out all over. Sweet!
> I haven't tried EQ (or anything else) in the loop, other pedals, or tube swaps yet.




You definitely make this sound like a real nice amp. It must be because Micky seems to be playing his a "lot", and he also has a 40c. His 12 inch speaker installation sounds like a great mod feature.


----------



## Micky

Well, I came across my first DSL5c problem today.

The wife is away for over a week, and I brought out a couple guitars into the living room to test/review my new Boss RV-5 digital reverb pedal. I thought I was in for a great weekend of noodling around...

I also picked up a new amp stand, a small tripod stand just right for a small combo. More about that later...

I get setup, plug in and put the reverb pedal in the front for a simple test on the Classic channel. Keeping the volume low so I didn't get too much distortion I went thru the pedals various modes as well as the tone and intensity settings. All was going fairly well until...

Pop and then a nasty hum from the amp, no guitar, no difference whether Classic or Ultra channel, nothing would get rid of the hum. I unplugged everything, and still got a wicked hum. So I shut everything down.

Turned it on a few minutes later, all was fine for about 5 minutes, then the hum returns. I got really pissed, thinking I was gonna have to work on my amp all weekend instead of playing, and went to bed.

Got up today, had a coffee and thought about it for a bit. What could it be? Probably a tube, I surmized, as I had NOS stuff in there and they were not new by any means. So I plugged in and started jamming. Straight in, as I didn't want any other variables in the mix if it was gonna screw up again. 30 minutes in or so, there it is. No guitar, just hum. Shit. Here goes my Sunday...

So I clean off a spot on the kitchen table, and pull the back. Everything looks OK, so I start tapping and wiggling tubes. V1 OK, V2 OK, V3 (final) OK, then POW! Touch V4 (PI) and the hum starts. So I pull the chassis...

I fire it back up with the chassis out, and push up on the tube, it has a board-mounted socket. I can flex the board a bit when I push up on it, and it definitely is making things better and worse. I look at the solder joints, and even though they weren't overloaded with solder, they looked solid. That has to be it, I thought.

So I power everything down, check for residual voltages, and get the soldering pencil out. I touch up the joints, as well as anything else I could get to that looked a bit dodgy. Plug things back in, fire it up, and all sounds good. Plug in the guitar, and play a while, then put the guitar down and let the amp cook for a bit. 10-15 minutes later the hum returns, so i power it down and replace all the tubes. Power it back up, and the hum is still there. Shit.

Pissed as all hell, knowing it isn't tubes or sockets, I start to wiggle connections. Using a chopstick, I start wiggling internal components and connections, athen BANG! All of a sudden I find it. The FX loop connections where the shielded cables connect from the back panel jacks to the main board seem to be flaky. I keep wiggling, and they keep making noise. Then I noticed it...

One of the 4 connections in the FX loop main board molex connector had wiggled loose and was starting to come out of the connector. If I had a real macro setup I would have taken a photo of it, but as soon as I snapped the individual wire connector back into the connector all was fine. No hum.

Plugged in the guitar, and all was fine. Now back to the reverb pedal...


----------



## slagg

Son of a,way to go Mickey.


----------



## Micky

Here is a photo of my upstairs setup, pedals are there for testing purposes only...


----------



## leewaun

Micky said:


> I need to spend more time with this amp and my Strat...
> 
> Anyway, this amp compared to the ones you listed is a different beast.
> It uses a 12BH7 as a final power tube, where the ones you mentioned use a pair of 6V6's.
> While the preamp circuitry is very similar, the output section is different.
> Also, the 10" speaker is at a distinct disadvantage to the 15c that use a 12".
> 
> Read thru this thread to see what I did with mine.
> This is truly one of Marshall's hidden gems...


 
I have to agree with that. I had the 15c and sent it back in three days. The reverb was non existent and the ultra gain was unusable. I on the other hand have fallen in love with this dsl5c. I just love the ultra gain channel. I like the clean on the classic channel and I just wish there was a gain knob on that channel. But doesn't matter with the zoom pedal this is a keeper. I can live with the 10 inch speaker but that is because I have to keep the volume down which is why I bought this to begin with.


----------



## leewaun

Micky said:


> Here is a photo of my upstairs setup, pedals are there for testing purposes only...


 

Really like the colour of that tele.


----------



## Micky

leewaun said:


> I have to agree with that. I had the 15c and sent it back in three days. The reverb was non existent and the ultra gain was unusable. I on the other hand have fallen in love with this dsl5c. I just love the ultra gain channel. I like the clean on the classic channel and I just wish there was a gain knob on that channel. But doesn't matter with the zoom pedal this is a keeper. I can live with the 10 inch speaker but that is because I have to keep the volume down which is why I bought this to begin with.



You ought to use the headphones output then! The output works great!
I have used it with my iPhone a couple times for the MP3 input and that works great as well. Since I am home alone this week, I have been able to crank it, and I still cannot believe how incredibly loud this amp is. Haven't used the 1W mode much yet, I am having too much fun with 5W.

And the Tele I got from Frankie, like new and has a humbucker with coil-splitting. Awesome guitar... The color is the same as the one used by Susan Tedeschi of the Tedeschi/Trucks band. I fell in love with it also as soon as I saw it. And to get it on a MIA Tele was perfect!


----------



## leewaun

Micky said:


> You ought to use the headphones output then! The output works great!
> I have used it with my iPhone a couple times for the MP3 input and that works great as well. Since I am home alone this week, I have been able to crank it, and I still cannot believe how incredibly loud this amp is. Haven't used the 1W mode much yet, I am having too much fun with 5W.
> 
> And the Tele I got from Frankie, like new and has a humbucker with coil-splitting. Awesome guitar... The color is the same as the one used by Susan Tedeschi of the Tedeschi/Trucks band. I fell in love with it also as soon as I saw it. And to get it on a MIA Tele was perfect!


 
I did try out the headphones and it does work well enough. I have a headphone set that is just used for guitar. 

But I do want to play at a low volume on the 1 watt settings and it does sound good enough.


----------



## Lorhar34

Did a couple of tube swaps- the middle preamp tube (is this V2 Marty?) for a 12AY7, and scored a NOS power tube (brand unknown). Someone said there's came w/ a TAD. Unless there's other ways to ID, all of mine are marked only 'Marshall'. 

Anyway, Im now loving this amp at 5 watts (already loved it at 1), now have a good crunch on channel 1 and finally, a bit of headroom. On channel 2, there's still lots of gain, but w/ volume and gain both dimed, it does need at least a medium output pickup for metal (but I'll assume metal players already have that). My Strat with single coil ToneRider City Limits got well into hard rock but not quite screaming metal. My SE w/ Slash Alnico 2 (medium output) easily crossed over into hell. Plus, a transparent OD like the Soul Food can get me right back into any gain I might miss from the stock tubes.

Another benefit, with my 112 cab, I can now turn the treble up to about 4 without getting my head bitten off, rather than having to keep it at zero. With the stock speaker I still have to keep it at zero though. This weekend I might swap speakers w/ my Class 5 to see if that helps. I can roll off the tone some on my guitars but I feel like that sucks tone & would rather be able to adjust at the amp. 

Really, the treble thing is my ONLY complaint & playing w/ the 112 negates that. Now that I can get a good dimed sound on both channels, I may yank the chassis & build a head enclosure to use this thing at rehearsals. Even if i could make a 10 in speaker sound good, it's not going to be loud enough for my band, but the 112 should be- I'll know in a couple weeks.

My Reverend has fairly dark buckers and matches better than the other 2 guitars.


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## Micky

Lorhar34 said:


> Did a couple of tube swaps- the middle preamp tube (is this V2 Marty?) for a 12AY7, and scored a NOS power tube (brand unknown). Someone said there's came w/ a TAD. Unless there's other ways to ID, all of mine are marked only 'Marshall'.
> 
> Anyway, Im now loving this amp at 5 watts (already loved it at 1), now have a good crunch on channel 1 and finally, a bit of headroom. On channel 2, there's still lots of gain, but w/ volume and gain both dimed, it does need at least a medium output pickup for metal (but I'll assume metal players already have that). My Strat with single coil ToneRider City Limits got well into hard rock but not quite screaming metal. My SE w/ Slash Alnico 2 (medium output) easily crossed over into hell. Plus, a transparent OD like the Soul Food can get me right back into any gain I might miss from the stock tubes.
> 
> Another benefit, with my 112 cab, I can now turn the treble up to about 4 without getting my head bitten off, rather than having to keep it at zero. With the stock speaker I still have to keep it at zero though. This weekend I might swap speakers w/ my Class 5 to see if that helps. I can roll off the tone some on my guitars but I feel like that sucks tone & would rather be able to adjust at the amp.
> 
> Really, the treble thing is my ONLY complaint & playing w/ the 112 negates that. Now that I can get a good dimed sound on both channels, I may yank the chassis & build a head enclosure to use this thing at rehearsals. Even if i could make a 10 in speaker sound good, it's not going to be loud enough for my band, but the 112 should be- I'll know in a couple weeks.
> 
> My Reverend has fairly dark buckers and matches better than the other 2 guitars.



Awesome! Yes the 'middle' tube is V2, and yes, that is what I changed to get a bit more clean headroom. Sounds like you are in the same boat I was in...

I modded my case to accept a 12", and now with a WGS Vet30 I run my treble at 5, middle at 8 and bass at 5. The 10" didn't have enough balls for me, but this sucker is now pretty loud.

My DSL5c came with a TAD 12BH7, and I have swapped it with others, and still come back to the TAD. I just love them!

Glad you are loving yours too!

EDIT - Next time I have mine apart I will shoot closeups of the tubes so that it may help others identify theirs...


----------



## Elliot Twist

Thanks Micky, reading this thread has been a great benefit through the wait for my DSL5C. The information contributed by everyone is much appreciated.
I used a JCM800 in the 80's and 90's in a club band. Now I'm using a DSL100H. I'm happy enough with it. I use a custom loaded 4X12 and a Marshall 1X12 for the speakers. The 1X12 has the disliked Seventy 80 speaker in it, I like it well enough. The 4X12 has Bugera 12G100J4 speakers in it. The blend works for me. I have a Class 5 and a BS HT-5R for at home. I need the DSL5C at home, I'll have it next weekend. Thanks again for all the information posted here by everyone.


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## leewaun

Well my DSL 5c has worked out far better than I imagined it ever would. I keeping it stock. Keep the treble at 4 and bass at 6. 

The all tube tone of the DSL however has ruined it for my Fender Mustang modeling amp. I just can't us that thing anymore so it has been sold. 

Am replacing it with a Fender Super Champ X2 which is modified tube amp.


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## Elliot Twist

I have overwhelming appreciation for the time spent by members of this thread. So much that I'd like to contribute my tests and findings, as well as ideas and possible solutions to a few situations. The reason I got the DSL5C is because my main rig is a DSL100H. First of all I am plenty happy with the DSL5C, it survived my expectations.
It seems Marshall used the clean side of the Classic Gain from the DSL100H on the DSL5C.
I favor the crunch side of the Classic gain on the DSL100H, therefore it's necessary for me to run the Classic Gain volume knob on the DSL5C @ 3/4 (9-oclock). I don't do a lot of crystal clean material, but I can roll back the guitar's volume to dilute the crunch if needed. So I'm satisfied there. On the Ultra Gain side since I don't run any boxes in front of my amp. That's why I play Marshall Amps I don't feel personal need to run an OD or distortion in the front. I run the Ultra Gain at almost 3/4 (slightly less than 9-oclock). I don't need a fuzzbox. I hear a noticeable difference between the high and low power options on the DSL5C, and prefer the high power setting. Thus with my chosen settings even at 5 watts it's gonna be fairly loud for some environments like my apartment. I've been using a method for several years that is a satisfactory solution to the loud volume. I do it with my DSL100H, and did it with the DSL5C. I run a Line 6 POD HD500, or a Digitech RP360XP on the loop of my amp. Absolutely no amp models, no OD, Distortion, Compression, or any of those things suited for the front of an amp. I use Chorus, Flange, Phaser, and Delay or Reverb. The FX modeling for those FX boxes in the HD500 or RP360 work and sound better to me than my collection of stompboxes. Once such a unit is connected to the loop of amps such as the DSL100H or DSL5C I can and do use the master volume output of these devices to pad or choke the signal before it reaches the power stage. To my ears I am pleased with the results. After all it's for my own personal rehearsal purposes in an environment where loud is not an option. I went ahead and put a Mod Tone Clean boost stompbox on the loop instead of the Line 6 or Digitech FX boards. it worked just the same when used to pad or choke the signal before it reaches the power stage. I used the Mod Tone Clean Boost not to boost, but as a cut. Be aware that the cost of the Mod Tone box isn't much cheaper than a RP360. Plus you've got a ton of FX in these units such as the POD HD500 or RP360. This medhod does effect the emulated line out. So anyone trying to get a strong signal from the line out for recording purposes, this won't be good. I tried the headphone signal into recording gear, and it wasn't great, but worked. Lastly I'd like to mention something I tested that may not interest anyone. Sometimes when I use my Marshall Class 5 amp I run the headphone out to a 4X12 cab. It sounds darn good. The headphone out on the Class 5 isn't truly a good idea for headphones unless your phones have an inline volume. The signal coming out there is powerful. So I tested the headphone output of the DSL5C into an cab. That didn't sound very good, and I won't be able to us that method for anything. I already know the low power option on the DSL5C will sound decent on a 4X12 cab, I'll test that today in the band rehearsal room across town. As well as cranking the DSL5C with every option, including the built in speaker. Those options can't be use here at home. That's why I rent a rehearsal space. I hope something I've posted becomes helpful to someone. I need to mention that the Marshall DSL5C is much better for me than my Blackstar HT-5R in every aspect. It's a personal taste, I seem to be a Marshall type person. If you ever get a chance to hear a Class 5 cranked almost full up on a 4X12 cab it will give you a smile. I love it. But the Class 5 is not a DSL, and I know what these 5 watt combos sound like on a 4X12. So putting the DSL5C on a 4X12 is going to be fun and interesting. I don't even need to test that and I already know it will be fine. Note: I've been playing since 1972, and in a touring band since 1978.


----------



## leewaun

Funny but today I was playing my Les Paul though the DSL5c and for some reason I just wanted to stay on the classic gain channel. I usually like the Les Paul overdriven but today I was all about the clean channel and it sounded really good. Still super happy with my DSL5c and can say it won't be going back. Nice to finally find a DSL even I can use at home.


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## Duffy49

I've been thinking of one of these and then I start thinking that it would be very nice to have a Blues Junior. I usually play a Blues Junior when checking guitars out at stores - if they have Blues Juniors.


----------



## Micky

Duffy49 said:


> I've been thinking of one of these and then I start thinking that it would be very nice to have a Blues Junior. I usually play a Blues Junior when checking guitars out at stores - if they have Blues Juniors.



Blasphemy! 






(but I would love to have a Blues Junior also...)


----------



## Duffy49

Micky said:


> Blasphemy!
> 
> ...)



Ha, ha! I know what you mean.

I dig the five c though, I like the two channel options and the master volume on the Ultra channel. I have played them quite a few times but would not consider myself well versed in playing that amp after only playing it a handful of times.

I like your 12" speaker mod though. Absolutely.


----------



## MarshallMatters

Hey , just some questions that i have in here , i'm not a metalhead or anything , and i'm a total noob when it comes to tube swaps , ( always leave it stock the amps that i own) , but i could make a tube swap to increase the gain of my 5c if i wanted ? wich tubes i would have to use it to make it happen . I saw micky doing the opposite and leaving his amp more on the "less gain" side of the things . I wonder if i can do the oppoosite with mine ( not that i'm needing this mod right now or anything ) , but just so i know that the amp is capable of producing a even more "high gain " tone if needed ( so i dont have to use and OD in front of it for the solos , wich i'm using right now (MXR zw-44 )


----------



## Micky

Sure you can do that!

The preamp tubes can all be swapped for 'higher gain' tubes, such as a Ruby HG7 (if I remember correctly...) and even the final output tube can be biased higher for more gain and less headroom.

This is the great thing about tube amps, the tubes are generally easily accessible to change them to whatever you like.

The best thing is that you can connect this little amp to either an external speaker (still using the 5W power section) or even a more powerful amp using either the FX output or the Emulated Line Output. (bypassing the 5W power section) This can get interesting, as there are some cabs that are more suited to hi-gain amps than others, and can make this little beast sound great! Good luck and be sure to post your questions as well as your results here...


----------



## Elliot Twist

As stated Micky reduced the gain on the Classic Gain Channel, as MarshallMaters expressed the possibility of changing tubes to increase gain. I can live without more clean headroom on the Classic Gain channel. I'd like to increase the preamp gain on the Clasic Gain channel. So to do this should I replace the V2 ? Can you suggest the replacement that would produce highest gain? And correct me on which tube to change. Your suggestion would help keep me from buying and trying several tubes. I'll simply get the suggested tube and place it in the socket recommended. Looking at the Topside layout photo in post #5 can you tell me which it the tube to change to greatly increase the gain on the Classic Gain channel?
The Ultra Gain channel is fine for me the way it is. Thanks.
I've tried a few cabs on the DSL5C, they all sound decent with this amp. In my home rehearsal room I continue to revert back to the stock speaker. I ran a V-30 in a 1X12 and a Seventy 80 in a 1X12 cab they sounded decent. I'm not pushing the 5 watts at all and the stock speaker sounds good at the low volumes I'm using here.


----------



## Gene Ballzz

Micky,
Earlier in this thread there was mention of a schematic for this amp that was on another site that I'm not a member of. Do you actually have a schematic and, if so, would you be willing to share it with me, either here or in a PM?
Thank You,
Gene


----------



## Bwell34

Hi... been lurking around here since I got my DSL5C, first time poster though. I've been having issues with the FX loop on this amp. It's pretty much unusable due to an insane volume drop. I'm just wondering if anyone else has had this issue trying to use the loop? I can barely hear my guitar when I use it with the volume cranked.


----------



## scott-uk

If you connect a (short) patch cable directly from fx-send to fx-return, with nothing else in the loop, do you still get the volume drop?


----------



## Micky

Bwell34 said:


> Hi... been lurking around here since I got my DSL5C, first time poster though. I've been having issues with the FX loop on this amp. It's pretty much unusable due to an insane volume drop. I'm just wondering if anyone else has had this issue trying to use the loop? I can barely hear my guitar when I use it with the volume cranked.



What are you putting in the loop?


----------



## Bwell34

Whelp... thanks for the responses. My newb self found out the answer. A bad patch cable between the two pedals used in the loop. I had just moved them around on my board to patch in the two cables i bought for the loop, so the cable must of been on the verge of death before that. Problem solved and it still sounds great!

Thanks again for the quick responses and Micky, I'd like to thank you especially now that I have registered. Your information on this amp as a whole has been an amazing help. I have a 12 Inch Eminence Swamp Thang on order and can't wait to install it. Wouldn't of done it without the pictures of yours!


----------



## Micky

Glad you are here Bwell.
Many members introduce themselves in the Member Introductions section.
Go ahead and post there and tell us about yourself!

Be very careful cramming a 12" into the DSL5c, I did it and it worked for me, but it may not work so well for others. I need to put that disclaimer out there. I am a jack of all trades and master of none, and carpentry certainly is not one of my better traits. I got lucky 'drilling' and chiseling a slot in the bottom of my combo so the speaker will fit. Make sure you measure twice and cut and drill once. Also make sure the tubes don't touch the speaker. It is really cramped in there...

Being an Electrical Engineer helps a bit when you pull the chassis out, but you still are just like everyone else the first time you do it. Please remember this ain't for everybody, and sometimes it is just better all around when you get help or take it to a qualified technician. Have a healthy respect for the hi-voltage contained within...

Again having said all that, you are in for a real treat! This little beast is quite the charmer, you will fall in love once you figure it out. Surprisingly, 5W is pretty loud, except for the cleans, and you will find yourself having to turn down in all except the loudest conditions such as outdoors.

This amp is not for everyone, but I will bet you will enjoy it every time you turn it on!

Good luck with your mods, and be sure to post here with your results!


----------



## Micky

Elliot Twist said:


> As stated Micky reduced the gain on the Classic Gain Channel, as MarshallMaters expressed the possibility of changing tubes to increase gain. I can live without more clean headroom on the Classic Gain channel. I'd like to increase the preamp gain on the Clasic Gain channel. So to do this should I replace the V2 ? Can you suggest the replacement that would produce highest gain? And correct me on which tube to change. Your suggestion would help keep me from buying and trying several tubes. I'll simply get the suggested tube and place it in the socket recommended. Looking at the Topside layout photo in post #5 can you tell me which it the tube to change to greatly increase the gain on the Classic Gain channel?
> The Ultra Gain channel is fine for me the way it is. Thanks.
> I've tried a few cabs on the DSL5C, they all sound decent with this amp. In my home rehearsal room I continue to revert back to the stock speaker. I ran a V-30 in a 1X12 and a Seventy 80 in a 1X12 cab they sounded decent. I'm not pushing the 5 watts at all and the stock speaker sounds good at the low volumes I'm using here.



Yes, V2 is strictly a gain stage (2 gain stages actually...) and here is a good place to experiment. It is my opinion that the Ruby 12AX7AC7 HG+ is probably the tube to try there. It is $19 at Dougs Tubes currently.

Of course you can always contact the store (seller) and ask them for their highest gain 12AX7, they have the equipment to measure such things. Many sellers have them listed right on their pages.

Another person to ask is MartyStrat54, he has forgotten more tube info than I will ever know...


----------



## casey99

Fellow fivers, 

I just signed up so I could share a little tidbit. I'm just learning guitar, so I got this little gem to learn on without torturing everyone around me. In my situation I found the ultra gain channel useless even after trying the things posted here. 

I was on a website and read about the new JJ ECC823 tube. It's the opposite of the 12DW7/ECC832 tube. From what I can gather the a side is the standard 12ax while the b side is a 12au. I had seen somewhere that Micky said V1 on this amp was split for the classic gain in the first stage and the ultra gain in the second stage. Sounded like a match made in heaven to me so I decided to roll the dice.

I put an ECC823 in V1 to go along with a 12AY in V2 and am LOVING the results!! I've seen where a lot of people have stated they wished the ultra gain would start where the classic gain left off. This tube combo seems to have gotten me there. 

Haven't seen this mentioned anywhere else so I thought I'd put it out there! I didn't bother with second channel before, but I'm all over the footswitch now. Hope it helps someone else!


----------



## Bwell34

I did it. I had to go to some extreme measures to get the tubes to clear. The Eminence speaker has a much larger frame (if that's what it would be called) then the WGS and V30 so I actually had to grind down some of the metal and even then the tube is still angled a bit as Tonton had to do. Luckily, my father owns a dremel which made the grove in the plywood and the grinding of the metal an easy task.

That said, I did have a weird vibration at first. Had to tighten up the speaker screws a bit more and that solved that. After that I kept getting another weird vibration, but couldn't figure it out till I stepped away from the amp and realized it was a tin Jagermeister bottle I have displayed that was vibrating due to the extra low end from this new and amazing upgrade... AWESOME!!! It sounds really good so far. I'll have more time to really give it a go tomorrow, but I'm happy. Here's some pictures.














I probably went deeper and wider then needed with the groove in the bottom. In fact I almost could see the black tolex through the wood, but I was trying to go as deep as possible to avoid doing what I had to do in this next picture.





Here's the groove I rounded out of the metal. Not the prettiest job I will admit. Slipped a couple times and broke a bit, but I got it done. I took a ziplock bag and put it over the magnet and put some rubber bands around it to seal it nice and tight. Also stuffed some paper in the opening to keep the speaker from being damaged by any fragments. Was a risky choice, but I had exhausted all other options at that point.


----------



## jimmyjames

Great job mate, like a compact car with a hi-po V8 installed


----------



## Micky

Good job!

I wonder how many people will put a 150W speaker in a 5W amp?
I didn't realize the frame on the ST was that much larger!
Is that a new one or an older one? The label seems different...


----------



## Micky

casey99 said:


> Fellow fivers,
> 
> I just signed up so I could share a little tidbit. I'm just learning guitar, so I got this little gem to learn on without torturing everyone around me. In my situation I found the ultra gain channel useless even after trying the things posted here.
> 
> I was on a website and read about the new JJ ECC823 tube. It's the opposite of the 12DW7/ECC832 tube. From what I can gather the a side is the standard 12ax while the b side is a 12au. I had seen somewhere that Micky said V1 on this amp was split for the classic gain in the first stage and the ultra gain in the second stage. Sounded like a match made in heaven to me so I decided to roll the dice.
> 
> I put an ECC823 in V1 to go along with a 12AY in V2 and am LOVING the results!! I've seen where a lot of people have stated they wished the ultra gain would start where the classic gain left off. This tube combo seems to have gotten me there.
> 
> Haven't seen this mentioned anywhere else so I thought I'd put it out there! I didn't bother with second channel before, but I'm all over the footswitch now. Hope it helps someone else!



Sounds interesting.
But you have mis-stated what I posted.
V1 in this amp is used by both channels. V1a is the input buffer, it is used by both channels. V1a feeds V2a in the Crunch mode Classic Channel, and in the Ultra Channel V1a feeds V1b. V1b is bypassed in the Classic Channel.

So while I can see what you did there, I admit it is probably the best method yet to tame the Ultra Channel. For me, the Classic Channel is what I am trying to tame...

BTW - Nice to have you here Casey. Many members formally introduce themselves in the Member Introductions section. Maybe you could post there and tell us a little bit about yourself!


----------



## Bwell34

The speaker is brand new. I'll admit 150w is probably overkill for a 5w amp, but the reviews for it were too hard to pass up. One review said it can summon Sabbath-like darkness and doom from the pits of hell. I was sold because that's all I pretty much play.

I played a little more earlier, and truthfully it sounds a little tinny. I'm hoping the break in period will take care of that, cause obviously there's no refunds now.


----------



## Micky

Oh believe me, I know what this speaker can do...
I have a quad of them in a 1960a cab. They are my fav...
I had one briefly in my DSL40c, sold it (it was 8-ohm) and replaced it with a Man-O-War.

But it is highly efficient, and will make the DSL5c seem twice as loud.


----------



## Bwell34

How long was the break-in period for them? I've read a lower wattage amp takes longer to break speakers in. Not sure how true or not that is.


----------



## Micky

I dunno, just keep playing and it will loosen up.
Lo-watt amps aren't any different really, it is all about moving the cone of the speaker...


----------



## Tonton

Found a new nice DLS5C review:

Lot of playing, little talking (and talking is in German )
some comments he makes for the English only speakers over here:
-Blues sounds fatten up by low gain, high volume on the ultra channel
-very dynamic and responsive
-low volume, high gain, midshift and deep in, he finds bit lifeless, (Sounds bit fizzy here, but i actually really like low volume high with only deep in (no midshift)
He prefers high volume usage and lower gain and no buttons in to make it more alive sound
-classic, as discussed here so much, it is not fully clean.

interesting to see he finds his ideal volume point by low e picking and waiting till tone fattens up (both channels volume around 6~7) But that is serious loud already...  not much people will find that typical home use as this amp is aiming for

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0MDhPaJUnw&hd=1]Marshall DSL5C - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## casey99

Micky said:


> Sounds interesting.
> But you have mis-stated what I posted.
> V1 in this amp is used by both channels. V1a is the input buffer, it is used by both channels. V1a feeds V2a in the Crunch mode Classic Channel, and in the Ultra Channel V1a feeds V1b. V1b is bypassed in the Classic Channel.
> 
> So while I can see what you did there, I admit it is probably the best method yet to tame the Ultra Channel. For me, the Classic Channel is what I am trying to tame...
> 
> BTW - Nice to have you here Casey. Many members formally introduce themselves in the Member Introductions section. Maybe you could post there and tell us a little bit about yourself!


Thanks for the welcome Micky. I'll get to the intro section soon, work is crazy for me.

I just caught a reference to what you said about the tube sections somewhere, and I'm glad I didn't see the whole thing or I might not have tried this. I really like the results though. Still seems to be plenty of gain available on ultra, just depends on where you set the dial. 

As has been stated many times here and elsewhere, Thanks for taking the time to do what you do! It is a really big help, especially to a newbie like me.


----------



## Bwell34

Couple of updates, the speaker seems to have come into its own a bit more. It sounds amazing. I hated the 1 watt mode before this upgrade, but the speaker has really opened it up honestly. Which is a great thing considering I'm pretty much forced into using it in 1 watt mode when people are around cause it's the same volume as it was in 5 watt mode using the stock speaker. 

This is now one of the best low watt amps I've played.


----------



## Micky

casey99 said:


> Thanks for the welcome Micky. I'll get to the intro section soon, work is crazy for me.
> 
> As has been stated many times here and elsewhere, Thanks for taking the time to do what you do! It is a really big help, especially to a newbie like me.



This thread is not about me, it is here for all of you. I am only one of many 5c users, and I KNOW that my experiences will be different than others. I just happened to take the time and note a few settings, and with yours and others help we will figure this little beast out!

Keep posting here with the new and interesting things you find!


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## Micky

Well it has been some time since I bumped this thread a bit. 
I gotta admit, the 5c has been pretty reliable, it is my 'upstairs' amp, tucked away at the end of the couch right in the living room. Conveniently located between the TV and the couch, it is easy to put on a video and play along.

I keep one guitar upstairs, and depending on what I have upstairs determines the type of music I gravitate towards. Kinda small and out of the way. it has become rather permanently located and is immediately available (after warming up the tubes) any time of day. I kinda like it...

So I was communicating with Rick Gessner at AmpPartsDirect down in Florida about the part numbers of some ClassicTone transformers for this little gem. While the OEM xfmrs are plenty adequate for this amp, I thought a couple upgrades might be in order. Rick is a veritable wealth of information, and if you have an amp, he can recommend some upgrades for it.

Unfortunately due to the lo-voltage requirements, a new upgraded Power Transformer (PT) is not available. This is no worry, the OEM PT is plenty adequate, remember, this is a 5W amp and there arent huge demands on anything in this amp.

A new Output Transformer (OT) is available, but it only has a 4/8 ohm tap. It may take a little work to get that one to work with the special electronics inside the amp such as the Emulated Line Out and MP3 input so I am gonna research that a bit more, and possibly find a more suitable OT or figure out what may need to be changed to swap in the recommended OT. The suggested OT is Classictone # 40-18045 and you can see the specs here: Fender Push-Pull Princeton Reverb Style 40-18045 - Amp Parts Direct

A quicker and less costly upgrade is to add a choke to the B+ that feeds the power tube.
It replaces a resistor, and basically smooths and filters the hi-voltage DC feeding the power tube. An immediate change is hard to notice, but at higher volumes you may notice less fizz, better bass and more 'depth' as the amp doesn't need to work so hard to supply power to the final power tube.

Fortunately there is lots of room to mount stuff on this chassis, both topside as well as underneath. I chose a spot where I could both drill thru the chassis, as well as solder in the choke without removing the mainboard. Here is a shot of the partially mounted choke and the pass-thru hole drilled:






But before you can solder in the choke you have to remove one component... The choke, which is ClassicTone #40-18040 replaces R26, which is a 150-ohm, 3W resistor. Here are the specs for the choke: Vintage Fender 4 Hy, 50mA DC Style Choke 40-18040 - Amp Parts Direct The choke is a 4H, 50ma choke, with a DC resistance of 150 ohms so it is a perfect replacement. Here are a couple shots of R26 which must be removed:





Above is a wide shot of the area where the resistor is located, below is a closeup of the actual resistor to be removed:






Removal is straightforward, a hemostat (surgical clamp) is my go-to tool for this stuff, I unsoldered one leg at a time using a 30W soldering pencil. The solder they used in this amp is 'lead-free' (less than 5% lead) and requires a bit of heat to remove the resistor. Fortunately it left the holes clean, and I inserted the choke wires directly into the mainboard after running them thru the chassis in a grommet. Here is a photo of the topside when finished:






Here is a shot of the underside with the wires installed:






Now as far as mounting and wiring this choke, you need to be aware of the spot you mount it, as if you mount it too close to the edge it will prevent you from sliding the chassis back into the combo as the choke may hit the mounting strips for the back. It is a relatively small transformer, both sides are enclosed and the style fits in well with this amps other components.

As far as function is concerned, we will see!


----------



## Micky

So a while ago (post #209) I pointed out a problem I had.

The amp cut out, started humming and generally farted out.

After a day or two of searching, soldering, poking and probing, I found the problem. It was quite simple actually, one of the connectors in the FX loop had an unplugged intermittent connection.

Well, I had the amp open, so I thought I would shoot a photo of the affected connector.

Here it is:






And here is a wider shot of the grey FX wire that connects the jack on the back of the chassis to the mainboard:






All I had to do was insert one of the white wires in that connector fully into the housing. 

Simple, eh?


----------



## Gene Ballzz

Hey Micky,
I acn see that I need to revisit this thread more regularly, as there have been surprise updates! You might want o look at this OT:

Marshall 18W Output Transformer

and possibly ask Rick Gessner about it. Since posting my transformer question in "The Workbench" I've checked tube data sheets for this 12BH7to find a plate impedance of 5.3k ohms. From what I'm gathering that would point to an optimal primary resistance of 10.6k ohms for a push/pull, if my research is leading me correctly. This unit looks like it might keep the impedance up a bit higher than the one you linked except at the 16 ohm setting. It would also allow 4, 8 & 16 ohm operation?
On a different note, have you ever found what the correct/best bias setting is for this amp?
Thanks,
Gene


----------



## Micky

Rick recommends #18045 but I believe it is only 8/4 ohm output.

I think I asked about # 18037 and he said it was designed more for class A operation.
I plan on asking again about OT's for this amp, so we can certainly find something suitable.


----------



## Elliot Twist

Thanks Micky for your #234 response to my post #227. I'll get that tube and put it in place very soon. I have a few updates to my previous posts. In #218 I said I used a combination of the The BEHRINGER BG412H 4X12 cab that has Bugera 12G100J4 speakers in it, along with the Marshall MX112 1X12 cab that has the disliked Seventy 80 speaker in it. I have replaced the Seventy 80 speaker with a Vintage 30. Joy has arrived. I enjoy the posts concerning 12" speaker replacements in the DSL5C. Since my musical career has never been convenient I don't mind using and hauling an external cab on the DSL5C. It sounds great on the Marshall MX112 with the Vintage 30. I'm almost finished putting a Celestion Vintage 30 and a Celestion G12K-100 into a Marshall MX212 cab. That will most likely be the cab I use on the DSL5C. For low volume situations I simply use the original speaker. I am a fan of cranking up the DSL5C, so low volume is rare. Also I'm half done loading a BEHRINGER BG412H 4X12 cab with two Celestion G12K-100 speakers and two Celestion Vintage 30 speakers. I'll use that on the DSL100H, but of course the DSL5C will get cranked through it. I love these 5 watt amps, and I like 'em loud. Like I said previously I have a Line 6 POD HD500 and a Digitech RP360XP. So if I need low volume I can always run those into my powered mixer and studio monitors.
I forgot to mention I have a collection of those BEHRINGER BG412H 4X12 cabs, even got one of the BG412F straight version for a full stack. I know many people have little good to say about those 4X12 Behringer cabs, but I pick them up often for $50 in mint condition and loaded with one of the 3 speaker configurations they used.


----------



## Elliot Twist

Is it possible for someone to point out the socket numbers on the "Topside Layout" image in post #5. I need to know which is V2 so I can change it to a Ruby 12AX7AC7 HG+ High Gain. I want to get more gain out of the Classic Channel.


----------



## Micky

Elliot Twist said:


> Is it possible for someone to point out the socket numbers on the "Topside Layout" image in post #5. I need to know which is V2 so I can change it to a Ruby 12AX7AC7 HG+ High Gain. I want to get more gain out of the Classic Channel.



V1-V2-V3 (12BH7) & V4 (PI) from left to right.
The 12BH7 is the tallest tube (V3)

I would try the Ruby in both V1 & V2... at the same time.


----------



## Micky

Elliot Twist said:


> Thanks Micky for your #234 response to my post #227. ...
> I forgot to mention I have a collection of those BEHRINGER BG412H 4X12 cabs, even got one of the BG412F straight version for a full stack. I know many people have little good to say about those 4X12 Behringer cabs, but I pick them up often for $50 in mint condition and loaded with one of the 3 speaker configurations they used.



No problem Elliot.

And personally, I like Behringer speakers. I have 6 of their PA speakers (rated for 1KW each) and they crank. Best investment I ever made.


----------



## paul-e-mann

How does the headphone jack sound on this amp?

Anybody try a 10" greenback in it? How does it compare to the stock speaker?


----------



## Micky

To me, everything sounds better than the stock speaker.

If you start at the beginning of the thread, you can see where I swapped the original Celestion 10" for a WGS 10" Smooth Cone, and it sounded delicious.

Then I got a stray hair across my ass and modified the case so a 12" WGS Vet30 would fit. Now I love it even more! I would imagine a Greenback would sound good, but I am not paying that price for a Celestion when I can get better made and sounding USA produced speakers for much less.

And the headphone jack sounds pretty good with this amp as long as you don't load it down too much. I use Bose headphones, and you can't get them ear-splitting loud, but it is a very full, dynamic sound, especially when mixed with your favorite MP3 into the input on the back. With headphones, you lose the sweet sounds of the speaker though...


----------



## Micky

Many questions exist about biasing this amp. In the earlier part of the thread I made reference to the test points as well as the trimpot, but I never really biased the amp here on the forum or mentioned any of the specs. This was on purpose...

The BlackStar HT5 also uses this final, and although the 12BH7 is only a glorified preamp tube, it is generally higher quality and of long-plate design so it stands to reason it will be a better performing final output tube. There is quite the argument about biasing this little gem on all the BlackStar boards, no one has stepped up and published a procedure nor specifications.

I am here today to do just that, with help from other forum members (John, Mickey, etc) in getting me up to speed on this design. First some basics...

Take adequate safety precautions. Just because someone does it one way, and someone else does it another way doesn't make one method any better than the other. I am providing guidelines only. You do this at your own risk. So be careful.

All you need is a decent multimeter, with small clips on the ends of your DMM probes. Marshall has made it very easy for techs to get in and then outta this amp easily, and biasing the amp should be a breeze, especially since there is only 1 test point to be concerned about. Knowing that, please reference the beginning of this thread to familiarize yourself with the layout and the components we need to look at.

The TAD 12BH7a-STR is a very lo-priced tube:
https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/T-12BH7A-TAD
And here are the specifications:
https://www.tubesandmore.com/sites/default/files/associated_files/t-12bh7a-tad.pdf

As you can see, the tube costs about $15 or so, and is available almost everywhere. You can also see from the spec sheet that the max plate current is 20ma. Remember, this is the maximum... 70% of that is 14ma. Personally, I feel it is a great little tube.

The test points are on the mainboard, and the bias resistor is already installed.
In the case of the DSL5c, only 1 test point is needed, and only 1 bias resistor is installed. You will be measuring total current for both sides of the tube, as they are tied together at pins 3 & 8 of the tube, which then feeds the 10-ohm bias resistor to ground.

Yes I said 10-ohms...

So guess what. Instead of reading 20mv max, you would read 200mv max. Basically 10 per side. Hence the single adjusting trimpot. So to bias at 70%, one would adjust for 140mv. But wait! Does that include the screen current? To be honest, I don't really care. As long as I stay under that number I think I am doing OK. Besides, only a cork-sniffer is gonna ask you that anyway...

Marshall sends these amps out biased rather cold, mine was set for 109mv as you can see from earlier in the thread. Personally, I feel anywhere between 100-140 (10-14 ma) is fine, the cooler you bias the more clean headroom you get. And with this amp, you need all the headroom you can get... 

So I set mine to around 110mv and let it run for a while to check for drift (there wasn't any) and put it all back together. It is that easy. 

With only one trimpot, you don't need to balance sides, you just set it and go. And for $15 bucks each output tube, you can afford to burn these up all day. So if you want lots of early breakup and fizzy gain, crank the bias up to 140 or so. If you want this amp to sound deep and rich with lots of Plexi-style breakup at higher volumes, put it around 100-110 or so. It is up to you, but the important part to remember is that you are measuring across a 10-ohm resistor so all bias readings need to be divided by 10 to get the actual milli-amp values.

Again I apologize for being so long-winded...


----------



## Gene Ballzz

Micky,
Not long winded at all!

When you responded to my query in the "Workbench" section you told me to look at this thread about bias info.

I could not easily find it and read every post in the thread to try and find it.

Lo and behold, by the time I finished re-reading the rest of the thread, you actually typed your most recent. "I see" said the blind man! "You're a liar" said the deaf/mute! "It is all coming back to me" said the idiot, as he pissed into the wind!

Thank You Sir,
Gene


----------



## Micky

I just hope it makes sense.

Sometimes I tend to get a little too 'in-depth' with these things and often I forget what I was going to type long before I try to type it. Pshchobabble it was once called...

Anyway, This is turning out to be my favorite Marshall of all time, and I have had a few in my time. It is not too heavy, easily modded and a blast to play!

Next I am gonna figure out the OT and all that circuitry, with a single 16-ohm output you are limited in upgrade choices, especially with all of the 'emulated line-out' stuff involved. But right now this is my go-to amp, it sits upstairs while all the big stuff is relegated to down below...


----------



## Gene Ballzz

Well Micky,
Being that a bud was kind enough to let me have a look at a schematic, I'm gonna bet that a transformer upgrade won't be too difficult. Either use a switch or drill one or two extra holes (depending on if it's an 8/16 ohm or 4/8/16 ohm unit) and simply leave only the 16 ohm tap connected up to all that bologna when there is no plug in the speaker jack, or something to that effect.

If we find the right unit, we can burn that bridge when we cross it! It should be a fairly simple matter to figure out proper the routing to make it work properly! Could be as simple as using the two extra jacks (plenty of real estate on the rear panel) for the other impedance outs and simply keeping a "dummy" plug in the 16 ohm jack hole when using the 8 or 4 ohm out.

The nice thing is that the transformer is hooked in with actual wires to that board! I can't currently find the link for it, but Mercury makes a killer upgrade for the Blackstar that should be perfect for this except for, of course, the Mercury price!

Thanx Again,
Gene


----------



## Gene Ballzz

Oh Wait,
Here's the link, provided by ampmadscientist:

Mercury Magnetics -- The Guitar Amp Transformer Company

The price is more than half what I paid for the whole amp! I wonder if Heyboer makes a similar unit?

Although, I have found an actual Blackstar (as puny as the Marshall) unit for as little as $16. At least it has 8 & 16 ohm taps! Downside, is that perusing some Blackstar forums, they seem be a fairly high failure rate item!
Gene


----------



## Gene Ballzz

The OT5PP+, here may be an option:

Musical Power Supplies, Inc. - Products

I've used other output transformers from them and they are top quality, if the specs are correct? The primary impedance is certainly quite different than the Classictone 40-18045 recommended by your contact at Amp Parts Direct.
Just Thinkin'
Gene


----------



## Micky

Yes, it sounds and looks like an affordable option.
Alternative outputs are a plus, but not required by me at all.

Just wish I could get the specs of the OEM so I could compare...


----------



## Gene Ballzz

Micky,
The next time I get into the amp to remove the board and finalize my mods (to correct the above board snips/clips and scab-ons), I plan to fully disconnect the OT and run 6.3VAC from an extra "known to be good" power transformer through the secondaries and measure the primaries. I will then share the results and maybe some the other knowledgeable folks her can help us get a clearer idea of what we're working with. In my situation, I regularly use either my 16 ohm 4x12 or 8 ohm 4x10 and occasionally use either of them in split/stereo for a wet/dry rig at 8/8 ohms and 16/16 ohms, respectively. 4 ohms is rarely necessary, but would not hurt.
Sound Like A Good Plan?
Gene


----------



## Micky

Sounds great Gene! 

I know I am loving mine so much right now I don't wanna screw with it too much.

I went downstairs last night, and my DSL40c gave me a really sad look like I was ignoring it, so I feel guilty now and think I need to spend some time with it so it doesn't give me sad looks anymore. Besides, I have a shiny new ClassicTone OT upgrade waiting on the bench for it, and I wanna get one last crank out of it before I perform xfmr surgery...

So the DSL5c will remain as it is for a bit. Sometimes I wish I had only 1 amp...


----------



## Gene Ballzz

micky,
I hear ya loud & clear! I love my JTM30 that lives at "Other Band" rehearsal, where we're drinkin' lots o beer and "smokin' funny things" and they love it loud. When I crank it up through my 1965B 4x10, it never fails to put a smile on my face! It still needs to have an attenuator, (set at minimum attenuation) to not be "too" deafening, but man that amp gives up the goods! Pretty much a one trick pony, but wow, what a trick!

I also love my Class5 head, but it lacks the features of the DSL5 and is sadly getting lonely. Luckily, I got it cheap enough that I should never need to sell it. 

The MG100HDFX is simply a boat anchor that has served it's purpose as power amp for the wet/dry rig, but is destined (once the DSL5 is finalized) to get dumped along with it's horrid sounding but pristine little MG412.

The Trinity Tramp (my first build from a kit) is now kind of a parts hulk that's already had it's OT raped for the Class5 and is destined for future single ended experimentation.

And then there's the crown jewel of my 10 watt Terry Shaffer inspired/mentored build that is just a bit too loud for my main gigging band and needs to be attenuated just enough to start losing some of my feedback madness. It will likely become my test bench for some hair brained preamp experimentation and development of a very cool, non-invasive mod kit for JCM800/2203/2204 aficionados. Yeah, I got too many amps too.
LOL,
Gene


----------



## Bwell34

So I've come across an issue running pedals into this amp. Specifically on the Ultra Channel. I put a Big Muff in front and turned up the sustain and the gain on the amp. As soon as I hit my first chords, it starts to spit, sputter and crackle (best way I can describe the noise). I turned down the gain on both a bit, yet still it spit and sputtered.

Double checked the pedal on a friends amp and it was fine. I always have my OD808 out front with gain all the way down and volume all the way up as a solo boost without issue, so I decided to try and turn the gain up on that with the amp gain all the way down. Same thing again.

What could cause this? Preamp tube? Could I have hurt something installing the speaker? I was pretty damn careful handling the chassis and know for a fact I didn't damage anything on the board. I'm now wondering if I have had an issue for a while, cause sometimes low notes would not sound entirely right, but always brushed it off cause the majority of the time the amp sounds wonderful. Thanks in advance for any help.


----------



## dennyps4

No offense but I still can't believe people bought these little amps. For that coin you can get a dsl or jcm 900 etc. 5 watts? why? Enlighten me, 5 watts is not far off from 50 when cranked, just less headroom, but still loud.
SCREW those 5w POSits, sell it and get a used DSl-50, you will be MUCH happier. Trust me.


----------



## Wylde Chylde

pedecamp said:


> Anybody try a 10" greenback in it? How does it compare to the stock speaker?



I swapped out my stock DSL5 speaker for a 10" Celestion Greenback. Totally changed the sound of the combo or the better. Compared to the stock speaker, I find the Greenback provides tighter low end, better defined mids, and the highs are no longer ear piercing. It made me love this little combo even more than before.


----------



## Micky

Bwell34 said:


> So I've come across an issue running pedals into this amp. Specifically on the Ultra Channel. I put a Big Muff in front and turned up the sustain and the gain on the amp. As soon as I hit my first chords, it starts to spit, sputter and crackle (best way I can describe the noise). I turned down the gain on both a bit, yet still it spit and sputtered.
> 
> Double checked the pedal on a friends amp and it was fine. I always have my OD808 out front with gain all the way down and volume all the way up as a solo boost without issue, so I decided to try and turn the gain up on that with the amp gain all the way down. Same thing again.
> 
> What could cause this? Preamp tube? Could I have hurt something installing the speaker? I was pretty damn careful handling the chassis and know for a fact I didn't damage anything on the board. I'm now wondering if I have had an issue for a while, cause sometimes low notes would not sound entirely right, but always brushed it off cause the majority of the time the amp sounds wonderful. Thanks in advance for any help.



A Big Muff into the Ultra Channel is just way too much gain. Either use the Classic Channel or turn the gain down on the amp in the Ultra Channel.

It is possible you may have overdriven a tube, I don't know. Swap in a spare and see if it makes a difference.


----------



## Micky

dennyps4 said:


> No offense but I still can't believe people bought these little amps. For that coin you can get a dsl or jcm 900 etc. 5 watts? why? Enlighten me, 5 watts is not far off from 50 when cranked, just less headroom, but still loud.



You are right. It is loud. But it also is a couple hundred less than a DSL. 

And half the weight. Win/win as far as I can see...

Besides, I already have a DSL and a few others, plus a full stack.


----------



## Micky

Wylde Chylde said:


> I swapped out my stock DSL5 speaker for a 10" Celestion Greenback. Totally changed the sound of the combo or the better. Compared to the stock speaker, I find the Greenback provides tighter low end, better defined mids, and the highs are no longer ear piercing. It made me love this little combo even more than before.



Ain't it great? I swapped mine out for a 10" WGS Smooth Cone, it sounded great but it still wasn't a 12"...


----------



## Wylde Chylde

Micky said:


> Ain't it great? I swapped mine out for a 10" WGS Smooth Cone, it sounded great but it still wasn't a 12"...



I have a feeling I will be swapping in something else at some point...just because I can't leave well enough alone...ever. And you're 100% right...sounds great for a 10", but it's no 12".


----------



## Micky

Wylde Chylde said:


> I have a feeling I will be swapping in something else at some point...just because I can't leave well enough alone...ever. And you're 100% right...sounds great for a 10", but it's no 12".



Try it with a 1X12 cab underneath. I wish I had a small cab...

Even with a 12" in there, the weight is still low enough to take it almost anywhere!


----------



## MarshallMatters

Hey guys , so yesterday i had my first problem with my 5c , i was playing with a guv-nor plus(GV-2) of a friend in front of the amp as a boost for the ultra gain channel ( wich by the way sounds awsome for metal) , when suddenly i hear a really strange noise , like a scracthing or something like that , its hard to explain this noise , but the sound imeadiately stopped and the noise persisted , it took only 5 seconds for me to power off the amp and see what happened . anyway , i power on the amp and no sound , power off again , then on again and hey presto, the sound was back . I'm a total noob when it comes to tubes , a have a 2203x that never had a problem , so my 5c its my first tube that i hear a noise like that , could it be a tube going bad ? or something worse ? could it be the guvnor pushed the preamp tubes really hard wich caused then to overheat or something like that ? i really need your help in here guys cuz i'm dont have a clue on what happened


----------



## MarshallMatters

I think i need to say here that i always play the amp through a 1x12 external cabinet , so to help the experts to solve this mistery to me


----------



## Micky

Bypass the pedals, and plug in directly to the amp.
You can get plenty of gain there, just try it to see if it is the pedals or the amp...


----------



## stillrockin

hello
have you compared it to a sl5??
is it only a metal amp ?


----------



## MarshallMatters

First of all thanx for the help Micky , so far the amp is functioning pretty well since that episode ( hope it was the last one to happen) i bypass the pedals like you said and its all good for now  . stillrockin , i never played the SL-5 but i love the tone of it from the clips i see it on the web , compared to the 5c i guess is the 5c has more gain , but def not a "only metal amp" like you said , it is a versitile amp , has less gain that his big brothers (15,40, 100 ) wich is a good thing to me , there's no fizzyness on the ultra gain channel like you have on the others , and plug in a external 1x12 cab with a good broke in speaker and in my opinion its one of the best bedroom amps out there , it does metal but i use a od in front of it to boost it for the metal tones and more meat for the solos it sounds great i love it \m/ . The Sl-5 on the other hand seems (compared with the 5c ) that it has even less gain ( wich is great if you're looking for 70s,80's marshall crunch) kind of a plexi modded tone ( i love it at least on the clips on the web never heared in person) , and it has a '12 V30 speaker with larger cab with a good reverb and no loop . It all comes down to what tone you want to achieve ( and if you have an external cab like a 2x12 etc to plug the 5c on it , wich is a amp that to me it really shines with 12 speakers ( i dont like the 10 stock speaker not one bit ) and if you use the loop a lot or not . Tonewise i think the DSL is more versitile but the Sl-5 has a great tone too u cant go wrong with then both have that classic marshall crunch tone ( at least for my ears)


----------



## stillrockin

i think that i want it now! but what about the speaker?
it's not a Celestion

the sl5 has not a good sound with the 2d channel for me 
it's cold 
it's not heavy metal
it's not for Gary Moore
it's rock but not a dirty disto 
it's not amazing 

so, i prefer it with only one Marshall pedal (and it's not a good amp for distorsion pedals)

and a comparison with a blackstar ht 5 metal or ht5 ?


----------



## Micky

Yes, the DSL5c comes with a Celestion speaker.

The only way you can tell if the DSL5c is for you is to try one.
Where are you located? Is a store nearby?
The 5c has plenty of gain.


----------



## MarshallMatters

The speaker is a celestion 10-30 '10 speaker that i'm not a fan ( i dont like 10 speakers in general) .the blackstar metal i never heard it but i had a ht1 head wich i liked but it didnt take pedals well and the diode clipping distortion that this blackstars have i dont like it.Seems like u would love a JVM1 head if you wanna play metal without the need of any pedals ( my friend has one and it has s##t lo ad of gain, more than on the 5c thats for sure)


----------



## stillrockin

i tried h1 and 5 but i didn't like it 

i will try again these amps and the dsl5c

i tried a jvm1c but it was not an amazing sound for me (a long time ago ) 

do you think that the dsl5c is better than the dsl1c ?

a lot of gain is not always a good thing


----------



## MarshallMatters

I really dont know cuz i never played the 1c but its uk made and collectible if you like that kind of stuff.Wich styles do u wanna play ? I assumed it would be heavy ones since you put the ht metal on the table ,but I can speak only for the 5c well you can play all styles on it easily except extreme metal tones( rectifier tones ala slipknot etc )besides from that all bases are covered , throw in a od in front of the amp and you have a winner , mine is a keeper thats for sure  . Dont forget to mod the speaker for a 12 like Micky did ( read earlier posts on this thread) or plug on a external cab like i do ( this amp loves larger cabs with 12 speakers its night and day compared to the 10 stock , trust me .


----------



## Micky

Again, the only one who can make these choices is you.
I don't think it is about if one is 'better' than another, it is more about finding the right amp for your style and playing ability.

Who is to say one is better than another?

Certainly other members valued opinions are very valuable and you are right in asking for their recommendations. But ultimately the decision is up to you. It is always best to try them out before you buy, but I can understand that it may be difficult to decide.

You have not stated what type of music you play, nor what tone you are trying to achieve. What bands do you like? What features do you require? These are all important considerations before choosing an amp.

Is this your first tube amp? Do you have any other amps to compare it with? What type of guitar and pickups do you use? What effects will you be using (if any)? Which amps have you tried already?

Sorry for all the questions, but these are things we can use to possibly help...

Also, if you started a different thread it may reach more members...


----------



## andysat

Duffy49 said:


> I've been thinking of one of these and then I start thinking that it would be very nice to have a Blues Junior. I usually play a Blues Junior when checking guitars out at stores - if they have Blues Juniors.





I have both of them , i will send blues jr as soon as i change the dsl's speaker , there no low ends in blues jr no matter which speaker you use and also the clean channel of dsl is better then blues jr. for me ..maybe drri next to dsl , but blues jr really makes me sick as i also use watt killer and diffrent speakers ...


----------



## andysat

which speaker and tubes for dsl5c? , i will simply modify and use 12'' speaker , has anyone tried v30(made in england) how it sounds?i need mids and balanced low and high ends, open sound , not too dark not too bright. Any suggestions?


----------



## MarshallMatters

Well andysat, seems like you want the perfect speaker ^^ That speaker doesnt exist but i have a v30 (wich is great to my ears on the 5c (external cab ) 1x12 it sounds balanced to me a great match for dsls in general


----------



## stillrockin

i tried the dsl5 in a guitar shop with 2 Charvel san dimas and so cal (very good guitars but the neck is not like a strat 
strat = -----

charvel= -------

and one PRS Se floyd (very good guitar, versatile) with a perfect neck 


i played a long time or hours with this amp

channel 1: very very good clean tones (better than a sl5), it's bright and you can have a good crunch too 

channel 2: 
the sound without the deep switch can not be very beautiful, but like a Marshall amp lol
i thought about my old Park amp a 15 watts clone 

the sound with MIds at 0 or 7'o clock (on the left ) can be very low Mids for heavy metal 80's and it's very good for that

the gain is here but not enough sometimes (very good too)

-no reverb
- the speaker is 10" so, not perfect 
- i tried to have the sound of gary moore but it was not enough for me

- a sl5 +jackhammer (a Marshall pedal) or laney lc 15 will be better for that 
but the Marshall gain was not here and with the dsl5, it has it , it does it 

-not enough power, too tight sometimes for blues or guitar solos but it's a 10"

-feedback can be there but my SL5 made some very good feedbacks at the octave ( = the not became a note at the octave)

-very good amp for bedroom

-1w mode= you lost a lof high ends (trebles) so, not very good

i don't know if the pleasure of playing with this amp will be there after some years but it's a good amp for a Marshall sound at home 

- i played a lot with this amp but i noticed not enough trebles in the sound: i think that a BBE sonic stomp pedal will be good for that
that was the problem for me but i recommend this amp : the clean sound is amazing and the disto 80's heavy metal can really be good too

but i you want to play the songs of Slash or guitar heroes with les paul, i think that it is not the perfect amp : that's a problem too 
it won't be warm enough in the sound 

you can not have all the sounds in a amp ! it's a choice  to have 2 amps lol  
one for blues, jazz rock and one for hard -heavy rock-metal  


Satriani's model will appear soon too so, wait for this too


----------



## CBHScott

Greetings! 

I've been a part of some other guitar-related forums, but this thread and my subsequent DSL5C purchase made me join just to say "thanks" for all of the info. Maybe I'll hang around for awhile  .

Just got mine two days ago after trying it a few times in the shops. IMO it is the best Marshall I have ever heard that is perfect for home playing and recording. I may swap out the stock speaker to increase the clean volume slightly and tame some of the bass flabbiness, but overall I am very happy with the whole package. My LP comes alive through this little beast, and I also just got a Squier FSR Standard Strat that I am dialing in.

Overall, I'm over the moon with this thing, and am seriously considering the 40c for the occasional jam


----------



## Micky

CBHScott said:


> Greetings!
> 
> I've been a part of some other guitar-related forums, but this thread and my subsequent DSL5C purchase made me join just to say "thanks" for all of the info. Maybe I'll hang around for awhile  .
> 
> Just got mine two days ago after trying it a few times in the shops. IMO it is the best Marshall I have ever heard that is perfect for home playing and recording. I may swap out the stock speaker to increase the clean volume slightly and tame some of the bass flabbiness, but overall I am very happy with the whole package. My LP comes alive through this little beast, and I also just got a Squier FSR Standard Strat that I am dialing in.
> 
> Overall, I'm over the moon with this thing, and am seriously considering the 40c for the occasional jam



Greetings Scott. Welcome aboard. Many new members formally introduce themselves in the Member Introductions section.

One of the options that is not discussed much is using the Emulated Line Out. It feeds another amp or can plug directly into a recording setup or PA system. The preamp in the 5c is great, although it is only 2 channels/modes.

Feel free to post all you can here, there are only a few members that post in this thread, but it read by many!


----------



## stillrockin

i don't think that it's the best amp with a les paul

if we want a very warm sound in the neck position (gary moore, slash, sambora)


----------



## Micky

stillrockin said:


> i don't think that it's the best amp with a les paul
> 
> if we want a very warm sound in the neck position (gary moore, slash, sambora)



I disagree. My LP with 490R/498T pickups sounds great thru the 5c.
But then again, I am not trying to replicate some faded old shredder...

My Tele with HS configuration and coil splitting sounds good too!


----------



## stillrockin

I have a laney lc 15-110 or a sl5 with a Marshall Jackhammer

it's the best warm sound in the neck position that you can have at home

it's not a jcm or a 4x12 but it's very warm
and the dsl5 is good but i noticed some problems in the sound

not enough high ends in the sound
not warm enough in the sound
only 10" 

but it's a good amp with a fantastic clean sound 

but my sl5 is very good and better (with a jackhammer) and lc 15 too 
if i want to play some tracks like still got the blues
" Is This Love " from white snake

or all what made john Sykes (not for rhythm , dsl5 is better for that) but i just talked about the sound of the neck position of a guitar
you must have a big and warm sound 
and it's possible just with a good amp and a good speaker even with a 10"

dsl5 = good for rhythm but not warm enough (sometimes) for guitar solo 
that's why this little combo is not perfect but very good


----------



## MarshallMatters

stillrockin said:


> I have a laney lc 15-110 or a sl5 with a Marshall Jackhammer
> 
> it's the best warm sound in the neck position that you can have at home
> 
> it's not a jcm or a 4x12 but it's very warm
> and the dsl5 is good but i noticed some problems in the sound
> 
> not enough high ends in the sound
> not warm enough in the sound
> only 10"
> 
> but it's a good amp with a fantastic clean sound
> 
> but my sl5 is very good and better (with a jackhammer) and lc 15 too
> if i want to play some tracks like still got the blues
> " Is This Love " from white snake
> 
> or all what made john Sykes (not for rhythm , dsl5 is better for that) but i just talked about the sound of the neck position of a guitar
> you must have a big and warm sound
> and it's possible just with a good amp and a good speaker even with a 10"
> 
> dsl5 = good for rhythm but not warm enough (sometimes) for guitar solo
> that's why this little combo is not perfect but very good[/QUOTE
> Well have you heard about od pedals in front of the dirty channel ? That's what i do to get the warm tone for solos and it works like a charm


----------



## Elliot Twist

Hello all. Happy Holidays. I have some updates concerning my experiences with the DSL5C. First I'd like to address andysat Post#288. I have a Marshall MX112 1X12 cab with a V30 in it. It came stock with a Seventy/80, but I switched it to a V30. This cab sounds fantastic on the DSL5C. I respect the mods that replace the internal speaker in the DSL5C, but I have to say I took this little beast to the rehearsal room with the intent of cloning the sound I use on my full rig. I wanted to get the DSL5C as close to my live rig as I could (using the stock internal speaker). I got it done. I put the DSL5C volume @12:00 and worked from there (Ultra Gain channel).




I'm running a DSL100H and a 4X12 and a 1X12 for the live rig,








so pushing in the deep switch helped get things close. After all I was trying to get a DSL5C to sound close to heck of a setup. I don't run things in front of the amp and I play hard rock so here's the rest of the settings. Gain on 7, Treble on 4, Mid on 6, Bass on 7.
When other band members heard the two side by side we all agreed they sounded like clones. So what I'm saying is if you have a desired sound to achieve with the DSL5C, turn it up at least half way and make some adjustments, you'll most likely get very close. Yes it's gonna be loud. If your using low volume for home things will be greatly different and so will the settings you'll need. Now on to some fun information. I loaded a Marshall MX212 with a V30 and a G12k-100 (2X8ohms in series for a 16ohm load)(came stock with two Seventy/80's) . Now the DSL5C has a cab that makes things happen.










I'm on vacation this week and I'm going to do the side by side again with my live rig. I expect things to turn out well. In a few months I'll have a 16ohm 4X12 cab finished with two V30's and two G12K-100's. That will be the cab I'll use with the live rig (DSL100H) instead of the 4X12 and a 1X12 currently in use. When I get that done I'll do the clone sound again with the DSL100H and the DSL5C. I'll use the same 4X12 cab (two V30's and two G12K-100's) on both amps. 
I'll post some comments on those results then.


----------



## Dannyz

Micky said:


> Also, there is no diode clipping in the DSL5c like there is in the SL5...



There is diode clipping in the SL5? really? I thought that the amp had full valve distortion.


----------



## Micky

Dannyz said:


> There is diode clipping in the SL5? really? I thought that the amp had full valve distortion.


I may be mistaken.
Haven't had a lot of time to look at this in detail.
There may be something in the AFD mode, but again, still not sure.

I would have had one of these if it didn't have that fugly logo on the front.
Maybe someone will design a different faceplate.

It has everything I want in an amplifier...


----------



## JoseJalapeno

Hi Guys

I have a question that I hope you can help me with.
I have a Dsl5 and a Celestion Greenback, only problem is it is an 8 ohm.

Is there some way I can still use it, maybe with a "dummy" resistor

thanks


----------



## JAC

I'm lovin' the heck out of my new one so far! It also works cherry with my Marshall Studio headphones I get excellent tone as well. I was able to dial in one of my Lesters with P90s last night on it. The first time I tried it with this guitar it sounded like crap. After tuning it right and, slightly dialing in guitar and amp, bingo, I got a bad ass P90 tone. The best sounding so far is my Standard Plus Lester with BB Pros. This amp is a low watt dream come true. There are certain amps that I have that I'm stoked over always. My 76 Fender SR, my 98 tweed cover Pro Junior, my 78 Vibro Champ and now this great DSL5C. The green channel sounds tits when the tubes heat up as well. The red channel on this works better than on the DSL15. I still like the DSL15 amps myself. Bitchen little Marshall it is!


----------



## Micky

JoseJalapeno said:


> Hi Guys
> 
> I have a question that I hope you can help me with.
> I have a Dsl5 and a Celestion Greenback, only problem is it is an 8 ohm.
> 
> Is there some way I can still use it, maybe with a "dummy" resistor
> 
> thanks



12"? It is not a 'drop-in' replacement. The 5c uses a 10" speaker...

And yes, you can wire a 5W resistor in series and it will work fine!


----------



## JoseJalapeno

Thanks Micky

I know its a tight fit, but im gonna give it a try.
I'll let you know how it works out once im done


----------



## Micky

When I did mine, I needed to cut a slot in the bottom of the case so the speaker would fit down into it. I described the process in detail with photos earlier in the thread.

Should be easy to find, this thread ain't that big yet...


----------



## JoseJalapeno

So I finally had time to do it.
It was a squeeze but it's in now, and it worked perfect with the extra 8 ohm/5w resitor.
Now all that is left is playing the hell out of it.

How it sounds well....... like a Marshall


----------



## Vinsanitizer

Micky said:


> Funny how Marshall makes stuff with ALMOST everything everyone wants.
> On the DSL5c, I wanted gain AND volume controls like the DSL40c.
> The 15c has that I believe, but no loop and shitty reverb.
> 
> I guess this is why we mod amps...



I was reading through this thread and thinking the same thing:

DSL15C - Reverb, but no FX loop. 
DSL5C - FX loop, but no reverb. 
SL5 - also Reverb but no FX loop. 

When! WHEN!! will they stop cutting corners and give us ALL the things:

-Reverb
-FX Loop
-Bass, Mid, Treble AND Presence
-Master volume over both clean AND gain channels

And while I'm at it, let's have some real metal Switchcraft jacks instead of those irreplaceable plastic things, and do the same for those cheesy plastic push-buttons which are always breaking and wearing out. 

(Note: the SL5's Input jacks _look_ like metal when you look at it from the faceplate, but that's only a metal sleeve over a threaded plastic jack shaft connected directly to the PCB. One good yank and you can send that right to the shop while you wait 6 weeks for a replacement part from the UK + bench charges.)

Regardless, make no mistake, I love the SL5. I'm trying to also get into this DSL5C thing, but something keeps telling me that its size and cuteness aren't going to be worth the $500 plus tax for me. I think the thing that kills it the most for me is that today we really expect both reverb and an FX loop. Atleast reverb, because a 5 watt amp doesn't really _need_ and FX loop if you have to cut corners that badly. To think of the DSL5C as a compact tiger - a versatile back porch/bedroom amp - and then having to connect cables and a power supply to an external reverb box - just to get reverb - isn't really what I had in mind for an amp that size.


----------



## JAC

An observation I have is that the 12BH7 power tube sounds great in both the DSL5C as well as in the Blackstar HT-5. The HT-5 only has one preamp tube according to the specs. I feel Marshall really nailed something special with this killer five watt amp. Reverb would have been nice. I'm surprised they skimped on it also. Not a problem for us gearheads with just another excuse to get a nice reverb pedal.


----------



## Micky

JAC said:


> An observation I have is that the 12BH7 power tube sounds great in both the DSL5C as well as in the Blackstar HT-5. The HT-5 only has one preamp tube according to the specs. I feel Marshall really nailed something special with this killer five watt amp. Reverb would have been nice. I'm surprised they skimped on it also. Not a problem for us gearheads with just another excuse to get a nice reverb pedal.



I still feel Marshall's implementation of digital reverb should be left out, in favor of a tank, or no reverb at all. And I agree, it is a great opportunity for a nice reverb pedal that will blow away any Marshall reverb, even that in a JVM.
(which is the SAME board as Haze, DSL and others...)


----------



## nashsnazzy

JayCM800 said:


> Nice!
> 
> I'd always wished you owned a 2203KK so you could tinker with it and share your findings with us!



Is there a schematic of this amp that shows exactly what the C31 cap does? I'd like to try the mod but I hate the idea of randomly clipping things.
Thx


----------



## JAC

I put two different digital multimeters on my speaker and, it read 11.5 on them both. I measured both tip and ring on the mono phone speaker connector that goes into the amp, as well as from the speaker lead connectors. I was rocking it out earlier. A Les Paul with BB Pros sounds like the 60s and 70s through this amp. I'm still in the honeymoon stage with this thing.


----------



## Micky

nashsnazzy said:


> Is there a schematic of this amp that shows exactly what the C31 cap does? I'd like to try the mod but I hate the idea of randomly clipping things.
> Thx



C31 is the 'bright cap' on the Ultra channel. It is a 470pf cap from the wiper of the gain pot to the input of the Ultra channel AFTER V1a and before the 470K resistor into the gain pot of that gain stage before V1b. V1b is ONLY used in the Ultra channel, it is bypassed on the Classic channel.

The cap in conjunction with the 470K resistor and the 500K audio taper gain pot form a R/C filter to adjust the hi-frequency response in the Ultra channel. Higher cap values allow higher frequencies to pass. Lower values here limit the amount of highs thru this initial gain stage.


----------



## andysat

Any tube suggestion? I would like to change power and preamp tubes. I use jj for my blues junior power tubes for brighter and rounded cleans would jj be beter on marshall ? And also preamp tube ? And any bias setting necessary?


----------



## Micky

Whichever preamp tubes you prefer will help you achieve the tone you desire.
As for final power tube, I like the TAD that came with mine.

I got a NOS final tube that is really hot, and the bias almost doesn't dial down far enough.
Any time you change the power tube you need to insure the bias is set properly.


----------



## stillrockin

hi
is it the ultimate bedroom amp to play the songs of 
bon jovi
steel panther
ozzy
80's metal? heavy metal with Charvel, EVH...

i have played some minutes with this amp but i only liked the MIDS cut ( eq in V  

in the other side, i really did not like the sound

the clean sound was very bright with the trebles at 10 but i don't like to play at 10


----------



## stillrockin

i had the chance to play with these 2 amps: 
dsl5: very good clean sound!!!
2d channel= rock and heavy metal
it was great
i had fun with a les paul 
it has the power!! the dynamic and a lot of gain

sl5 : very good clean sound too (be careful to the "presence"!! ) 
it's a little bit different
it can be a very loud amp with the 12"

2d channel : less gain than the dsl5c but the sound was good too

it's like a bright distorsion 
it's not a jmp or jtm 
it's a particular sound but versatile


----------



## Kennyinct

Hello all! New forum member as well as a new DSL5C owner. I got tired of carrying around 50-60 lbs combos and wanted something small to lug back and forth to rehearsal. I picked this up last Friday from a local Guitar Center and brought it to band rehearsal to give it a workout. I threw a mic in front of it and everyone's jaw dropped. What a great tone! I hooked up my pedalboard and had the best 3 hour rehearsal that I've had in years. We played a wedding gig the following night (no we are typically not a wedding band but a friend wanted classic rock.) I tilted the amp back to use as my personal monitor, mic'd it up again and it was easily heard over my extremely loud hard hitting drummer. Is it perfect? No, but it really works for me!


----------



## Kennyinct

Second gig down and still lovin it! Added some tilt back legs that I bought from Quilter amps. No need to get a stand now.


----------



## MarshallMatters

I really love mine too great on my rehearsals even better as a bedroom amp altough i plug mine on a 1x12 cab with a v30 cuz i cant bound with the '10 stock speaker . Its a true gem this amp love the ultra gain channel not being so "ultra" and being a truly rock n roll gain channel


----------



## jon75

Hi ! Recently bought a dsl5 after i got tired of my Blackstar HT1 for home practice. 
I don't have much experience with valve amps, but i is seems like the DSL5 is a great tool for my use. Actually i love how versatile it is.

However i have one question. When i switch to 5 w mode there is a idle hiss sound(almost like a small fan). It is not very loud and is not affected by the volume or gain Control. 

I am wondering if this is normal for a valve amp or is it supposed to be 100% dead quiet ? 

Anyways, great amp.

Thanks!


----------



## Micky

jon75 said:


> Hi ! Recently bought a dsl5 after i got tired of my Blackstar HT1 for home practice.
> I don't have much experience with valve amps, but i is seems like the DSL5 is a great tool for my use. Actually i love how versatile it is.
> 
> However i have one question. When i switch to 5 w mode there is a idle hiss sound(almost like a small fan). It is not very loud and is not affected by the volume or gain Control.
> 
> I am wondering if this is normal for a valve amp or is it supposed to be 100% dead quiet ?
> 
> Anyways, great amp.
> 
> Thanks!



It depends on which channel you are on. The Ultra channel will have a tiny amount of hiss, no matter what. It is just because of the gain stages. 

You can also try different preamp tubes, some are lower noise than others.

OH - Many new members put a post in the Introduce Yourself section letting us all know a little about themselves. Welcome aboard!


----------



## jon75

OK, thanks for the info.
I have tried and changed the preamp tubes to JJ's. Well it did not make any difference. I am not sure if these are considered "low noise" or not.

Could it also be an idea to change the Power tube ? It seems hard to get hold of that type here in Norway so i haven't tried it yet.

One other thing i noticed today was that the headphone output had a significant hum, making it more or less useless. I was surprised since the 1watt mode is very quiet. 
Later today i went to my local musicstore and they had a DSL5 so i tried it to compare the noise level to my amp. It seemed more quiet in the 5W mode, but the overall sound level in the store made it hard to compare. 
The headphone output on the amp seemed to have much less noise then my own amp, but after unplugging my headphones a couple of times it stopped working. 
Seems like the headphone output might not be so reliable on this amp.


----------



## xStonr

I am a little late to his club as I just purchased this amp. My situation deems it necessary that I have a low powered amp. Right now I am quite pleased with the DSL5c. The only thing I have changed is V2 from a 12AX7 to a 5751. I had tried a 12AT7 but it lowered the gain too much. So far so good. Thanks for all the previous input on this amp.


----------



## LoFi

Hey Micky,

I have a hard time keeping up with where you are on the mods now. I think you are at an added choke, 12AT7 in V2 and a 12" Veteran 30? You either snipped or replaced a cap/resistor about 200 posts ago and then put it back. I have played the 5C plenty in the shops, and I always wanted to love it, but I had some of the same issues/concerns that you have written about. I ordered it based on reading your thread and feeling like with minimum effort/expense I can get exactly what I am looking for. 

So, would you mind taking a minute to update this thread with where you are on mods and any other thoughts you might have for a new DSL5C owner?


----------



## Micky

Hi LoFi. Have you put a post in the Introduce Yourself section yet?

Anyway, as far as an update is concerned, YES! I have a 12" WGS Vet30 installed. I cut a slot in the bottom of the cab so it would fit. It is THE single most noticeable improvement I have made to this amp. I tried a couple different 10" speakers (Celestion, Eminence, WGS) and NONE of them gave the thump and low-end response I knew this amp could deliver. It is an invasive mod, and one not easily accomplished by a beginner. Speaker choice is critical in this instance, as there is a very limited amount of depth available as well. The Vet30 leaves about 3/8 of an inch clearance for the back panel.

I really wanted an original 25W Greenback for this amp, but one has not fallen into my lap yet...

Next I tackled the gain on this little gem, and you are correct, I put a 12AT7 in V2. MartyStrat sent me a couple very nice JAN 12AT7's, and as far as a low-noise NOS tube I doubt I will ever be able to afford anything better. He also sent me a very hot final power tube, but I am scared to run that one, as I am still unsure where to set the bias. It is not like I can look up the settings somewhere, it seems no one else has experimented with this model very much. Only 1 other person I know of has put in a 12" speaker, so it seems I have sort of a 'sleeper' here, it looks stock from the outside but is very different on the inside.

More in the next post as I go look up some part numbers...


----------



## LoFi

Yes, my first post was in the introduction thread. 

Thank you for your reply, Micky. I think I'm going to start with a 12" greenback and the 12at7. I followed your thread on the 40C as well and see that you did a fair amount of circuit mods on it - or at least more than the 5C.


----------



## Micky

Possibly the easiest mod I performed besides a tube swap was the installation of a choke. Now many people will ask why one would waste the time energy and resources to install a choke in a 5W amp, especially when the difference or effect would be minimal at best...

Simply, because I can. If it benefits a higher power amplifier, it HAS to make some sort of difference in a lo-power amp. One of the cost-cutting methods companies use is to substitute lower-cost components wherever they can to try and keep overall costs down. A choke costs about $20 and a resistor costs about 20 cents. You do the math.

The added benefit of a choke over a resistor is to smooth out and reduce any AC ripple or hum, and this is a huge benefit if you use humbuckers or pedals connected to this amp. Everything you do to help reduce noise will pay off in the end.

The installation of the choke is detailed here: http://www.marshallforum.com/index....imate-lo-power-amp.63682/page-13#post-1219207 in post #248 of this thread. It is fairly straightforward, and I hope the photos help anyone who might be interested.

My research into a replacement Output Transformer (OT) has basically hit a dead-end, ClassicTone only has a 4/8 ohm output xfmr, and I couldn't quickly find anything else from Marstran, Mercury or Hammond. Maybe someone else can come up with something that has a 8/16 ohm output that is heavy-duty enough to handle the Emulated Output as well as the headphone out. Being that it is only a 5W output, it would seem that it should be rather easy as well as inexpensive...

Future possible mods may include a standby switch, master volume for the Classic Channel, reverb tank, and maybe even an adjustable presence control. For now though, it is tough to find time to play this little monster, especially since I have the 40c with new finals just begging to be cranked.

So I guess at this point the next step is to do some more research into the OT, and this is where everyone else can chime in. I am stuck in the ClassicTone camp, and I have the blinders on as far as other brands are concerned. Maybe someone else has another idea...


----------



## Micky

So I contacted Mercury Magnetics yesterday and found out there is no replacement transformers for the DSL5c from them... YET. They need to de-construct an original xfmr in order to develop specs for a replacement.

Looking at their lineup, I think a Blackstar HT5 OT might work, as that is the same final output tube as the 5c, so the impedances should be similar. If I had a spare couple hundred bucks I would spring for one, and gladly ship the OEM iron to them for analysis. I would also sent them the OT from the 40c, as I have no use for it here...

I tried to get them to send/swap one with me, but like any other company I don't think they are real keen about giving away products...

If I ever had my DSL5c out of service for any period of time, I think I would pull the OT and send it along, but that and my 40c are my main practice rigs for right now and they both are sounding soooooo good I don't wanna mess with them.


----------



## Marcell

I would like one too  
I wan't to try my JMP-1 and other rack stuff in the return of the effectsloop. Only use the power section. Maybe put a Celestion Vintage 30 into it. This weekend I will try one out and hear how this little amp sound like!


----------



## Micky

Marcell said:


> I would like one too
> I wan't to try my JMP-1 and other rack stuff in the return of the effectsloop. Only use the power section. Maybe put a Celestion Vintage 30 into it. This weekend I will try one out and hear how this little amp sound like!



The JMP-1 and the DSL5c work really well as a preamp or driver for a larger amp. If you can get your tone dialed in nicely it is the perfect means to export it to a larger amp.

I have tried this with my DSL5c, into various other amps, I even ran it thru about 15KW of Crown amps in the PA and it worked great. My favorite is thru the DSL40c, it is almost like another channel if you set it up right.


----------



## noise5150

I am so impressed with my DSL40c that I have been thinking about looking for a B-stock or used DSL5c. The 15c wouldn't work because it doesn't have an effects loop which is a deal killer for me. I think I would take the 5c and retro-fit a 12" speaker into it prob a Veteran 30 or Retro 30.


----------



## Marcell

I got one today! 
At first I wanted to use my JMP1, but it sounds great ! 
I just use this one in my living-room and at 1 watt it is loud enough to annoy the neighbors  
Sound much better as my jmp1 and 9100 at low volume.
I'am happy!


----------



## die esel 5c

It has been almost 1 week since i purchased this amp. While i am trying to buy my analog boxes back, (got my phaser today, close to buy digitech supernatural reverb, still searching for a decent overdrive/distortion) i did some tests.

I also ordered a 22-Ohm/100w resistor from ebay today to test the 5w lineout because its still not clear to me, if this amp has built in resistors or not. I don't want to fry my new amp 

I used the 1w/HeadPhone out > FastTrack AI > Reaper

I've read this all thread before i've purchased the amp but didnt pay much attention to some posts.

This amp has so much* treble.

*Made 2 quick ultra channel recordings. 

Guitar: Ibanez 1550 /Dimarzio X2N Bridge
Settings: treble-0, mid-2, bass-10 / gain-8

1st one just amp to fasttrack, 2nd recording has RedWirez 1960B v30 SM57 IR as cab sim.

[SC]https://soundcloud.com/bastardsword/dio1-dry-deep-off[/SC]
[SC]https://soundcloud.com/bastardsword/dio1-dry-deep-off-1960cab[/SC]


----------



## Garrett

A friend has one and was not terribly impressed until I plugged it into my 2 x 12. 

Sounded great!

Not a fan of the little stock speaker but the amp itself sounds like a Marshall should.


----------



## die esel 5c

Guys this amp's clean(green) or crunch channel (i saw some ppl calling it crunch really) sounds like donkey fart with my mxr distortion+. 

Green channel sounds a lot more clear than red, but unfortunately it sounds very bad. Is it because green mode has no gain knob i guess, right?

All i want a nice boosted drive to record but i have no success with this 1w/HeadPhone out. Still waiting for the resistor 22-Ohm/100w but i don't think 5w mode will make a huge difference tbh. I tried to boost red channel too, didnt like it again, but it was better. (amp gain @3, volume @4-5)

I will keep trying to get a decent at least usable distortion tone from out of it. I feel like using an Isolation-box is the only way to record with this amp probably.

edit: ok got it. got more gain from red channel, dropped dist+'s gain to half or less and lvl all the way up. sounds nice for now. also treble at zero...


----------



## blase

anyone compared DSL5C and JVM1C?
dsl seems awfully bright (on yt), even if treble is roll off


----------



## Micky

die esel 5c said:


> Guys this amp's clean(green) or crunch channel (i saw some ppl calling it crunch really) sounds like donkey fart with my mxr distortion+.
> 
> Green channel sounds a lot more clear than red, but unfortunately it sounds very bad. Is it because green mode has no gain knob i guess, right?
> 
> All i want a nice boosted drive to record but i have no success with this 1w/HeadPhone out. Still waiting for the resistor 22-Ohm/100w but i don't think 5w mode will make a huge difference tbh. I tried to boost red channel too, didnt like it again, but it was better. (amp gain @3, volume @4-5)
> 
> I will keep trying to get a decent at least usable distortion tone from out of it. I feel like using an Isolation-box is the only way to record with this amp probably.
> 
> edit: ok got it. got more gain from red channel, dropped dist+'s gain to half or less and lvl all the way up. sounds nice for now. also treble at zero...



You are extremely limited when using the stock 10" speaker.
There just isn't much there to work with.

I tried a WGS 10" smooth-cone, and it was night and day better, at least I could get the treble up a bit without it fizzing out on the Ultra Channel.

Ultimately I crammed a 12" Vet30 in there and now I am in heaven. It took a bit of tube tweaking to find just the right combination of preamp tubes, but I am in a very good place now.

I still wish the Classic Channel had a seperate gain and volume control (MV) as you can't get that volume up enough to maintain a nice clean tone, but hey - It is what it is, and mine is now miles away from what it was originally and I am loving every minute of it...

[ame]www.youtube.com/watch?v=bohVV_KlSHw[/ame]


----------



## MarshallMatters

Yeah i know marshall put a '10 speaker in there and no MV on classic channel to cut costs in productions. But if only they had put a '12 speaker , MV on classic, the amp would be terrific stock , even if it were more expensive. Could the MV on classic be installed by a tech if I request it micky ? ( i dont have the chops to do it for myself  ). Its the last thing missing for me for this amp being the ultimate low power amp imho


----------



## Micky

MarshallMatters said:


> Yeah i know marshall put a '10 speaker in there and no MV on classic channel to cut costs in productions. But if only they had put a '12 speaker , MV on classic, the amp would be terrific stock , even if it were more expensive. Could the MV on classic be installed by a tech if I request it micky ? ( i dont have the chops to do it for myself  ). Its the last thing missing for me for this amp being the ultimate low power amp imho



Yeah, it can be done, but requires a bit of circuit modification. A better option would be to make a smaller DSL40c using a single output tube, possibly in Class A output configuration...

But WAIT - That one is called a SL5.


----------



## OldGuySGFusionPlayer

I may be edging into a tube Marshall Combo amp. I found the DSL15c maybe a little better than the 5c and worth the extra hundred. Maybe after getting debt down Ill get one. My old Valvestate is killer but it just has one 12AX7 in it and right now its a Groove tube. If and when I use it again I am gonnal put a Sovtek WB in it. I have found those tubes are sounding good. But every time I come here I am getting further addicted to wanting multiple Marshalls. 3 Marshalls might be a good number. 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaqKt4pWVkY[/ame]


----------



## Micky

The 15c is a great amp, but it is not for everyone. It has most of the stuff people want, except for an FX loop.

If I didn't already have 2 6V6-based amps already, I would have one of those...


----------



## die esel 5c

I am thinking about to do a modification to my dsl5c.

The mod will be reversible. 

Basically; I will remove the amp section out of the cabinet. I'll put the amp into another ampbox. (What I am trying to say is that I ll make a 5w head out of it ) and Last step; changing the speaker to 12".

So in the end i will have a 5w Marshall DSL Head and a 12" V30 Cabinet.

Since putting a combo amp into an iso-box would be dangerous (too much heat) I think this is the best mod I can do for now. And there will be lots of space to put a 12" V30 after i remove the amp i hope. 

The only thing bothers me the cab's performance. It's an open back cab. Maybe its just better to buy an external cab and put it into an iso-box and keep the dsl as it is. Thinking about it.

And one last thing... Wheres the god damn "presence" knob?? I knew there was non before purchasing it but now i feel like i really need it. Even 40c and 15c/h has it why not this one?


----------



## Micky

Because of the 10" speaker in the cab, there is a lot Marshall must have felt you didn't need... Like a Presence and Resonance control...

And yes, you will do much better with a closed back cab...


----------



## Kennyinct

I am going to try squeezing in a 12" Celestion Century Vintage Neo speaker. Trying to keep the weight of the amp under 30 lbs.


----------



## Micky

Kennyinct said:


> I am going to try squeezing in a 12" Celestion Century Vintage Neo speaker. Trying to keep the weight of the amp under 30 lbs.



Good luck. The best route is the slot in the bottom... Photos earlier in the thread.


----------



## Kennyinct

Thanks Micky. Your posts have been very informative. I will post my results when completed.


----------



## jenpauh

I am writing to Tonton, I recently got a DSL5C. it is my first tube amp and I am very happy with it's flexiblilty and tone, but I have noticed that I have to keep bass very low, particularly if I use my Blackstar Dual Channel pedal. I was wondering if your installing the vintage 12" speaker made a big difference in the bass, does it still get warbly if too high? ( I do not have the bass button pressed in) Thanks


----------



## Kennyinct

Well it has been a busy month but finally ordered and received my Celestion Century Vintage 12" speaker. Got right to work after the UPS driver dropped her off. Made my notch on the bottom and she fits like a glove. A tight glove. 

First impressions, great upgrade. The low end is much tighter. The stock speaker farted out a little. The tone seems to be more evenly balanced when switching channels. I already have put in one hour breaking in the new speaker. 

I haven't weighed the amp with the neo speaker but at most I only added a pound or two. Very happy so far.


----------



## Micky

Kennyinct said:


> Well it has been a busy month but finally ordered and received my Celestion Century Vintage 12" speaker. Got right to work after the UPS driver dropped her off. Made my notch on the bottom and she fits like a glove. A tight glove.
> 
> First impressions, great upgrade. The low end is much tighter. The stock speaker farted out a little. The tone seems to be more evenly balanced when switching channels. I already have put in one hour breaking in the new speaker.
> 
> I haven't weighed the amp with the neo speaker but at most I only added a pound or two. Very happy so far.
> 
> View attachment 23248



Awesome.
The stock 10" farting out was the first thing I noticed. Not that it is a bad speaker, I will bet with 3 more in a 4X10 cab they sound pretty nice...

Anyway, good job on the upgrade, I think in the long run you will love it!


----------



## samadams

Micky said:


> In stock form, no.
> *BUT - You can turn up the volume quite a bit then turn down the guitar to get clean tones. *



This.

Whole new range of sound for me. Better for some Kirk H. Sound.


----------



## Marcell

My DSL5C isn't very pedal friendly , have to dial down the gain of the Satchurator distortion in order the get a decent sound. Just plug it in a 4*12 cabinet and it will sound much better.

The amp is designed to crunch ... I haven't found a schematic of the dsl. maybe swap the tubes with ECC81 will clean it up, but looses its nice overdrive characteristics .. Don't now where to go from here. 

For a practice amp it's pretty good. Don't want to mess with it to much, It will never sound like a big Marshall


----------



## iommifan

I recently returned my DSL 15. Just couldn't hack the gain on the red channel. So I ordered a DSL 5, which I have heard a lot of good to great reviews of this. I still want to know what is going to be the best replacement speaker for it. Want to stay with the ''10 speaker. Will maybe try the 12 later on. Thanks for any help. And thanks for having me in the forums.


----------



## MarshallMatters

Get a 1x12 or 2x12 cab in the future. You're gonna be amazed with the tone of this amp on an external cab with x12 speaker on it ,i know i was . Its night and day the tone, trust me


----------



## iommifan

Thanks for responding. That is a great idea. I was for now going to be using this amp in an RV, so space is kind of a premium. I was wondering what would be the best 10" speaker upgrade over the stock.


----------



## iommifan

Anyone have any suggestions on the speaker. I think I still want to stay with the 10" speaker. Will try that mod down the road. Also tubes. What would be good. I read a 12AT7 in V2. Is that correct.


----------



## Micky

I have a WGS 10" smooth cone that I had in mine for a while.
It sounded great, but still was a 10"...


----------



## iommifan

I was going to try a greenback 10". Is this speaker rated at 30 or 25 watts. Or would the vintage 10 work out. I guess the only way to know is by my own ears.


----------



## Kennyinct

Really loving my 12" Century Vintage in this amp. Sat in with a friend's band over the weekend. It was an outdoor gig with the guitar playing playing his Lead 100 mosfet head through a 4x10 cab unmic'd. I had my DSL5 on the clean channel on 4 and using my pedals for overdrive. I was unmic'd as well. Everyone was amazed at the sound coming out of this amp! I usually have it tilted back and mic'd with my band but it was cool to know that it can move some air if needed. 5 watts is more than enough for me.


----------



## iommifan

You guys have really peaked my interest in using a 12" speaker. Is the circular opening that is for the 10" big enough for the 12 around the edges? I think I'm going to break down and try this. The amp is suppose to be here tomorrowAlso as far as the screws go, what should I use?


----------



## Marcell

Yesterday I got myself a 1960B cabinet for the DSL5C....Whoowoh that sounds great!! Only 2 minors of the amp: Treble isn't wat it should be, can't get it bright sounding. 2e Amp isn't pedal friendly for distortionboxes (Not that I need it with this amps overdrive channel) 

Maybe it's possible to do the bright cap mod on this one??? to place a cap over the legs of the volumeknob of the gain channel?? I'm not a hero with electronics but I did this a while ago with a Bugera V5 amp witch is sounding dark ...with the mod it brightened op on low volume.


----------



## Micky

iommifan said:


> You guys have really peaked my interest in using a 12" speaker. Is the circular opening that is for the 10" big enough for the 12 around the edges? I think I'm going to break down and try this. The amp is suppose to be here tomorrowAlso as far as the screws go, what should I use?


Jeez, have you actually READ this thread?

You are hereby banished until you read every post...


----------



## iommifan

No problem sir. I thought this would be a good place to come and ask questions about this amp. Yeah I'm pretty sure you have been asked the same questions over and over. Sorry about that. If I bothered you sorry about that too. The reason I asked you those questions is because you know a heck of a lot about what I want to do with this amp. I will not ask any more questions because I am clearly not in the same league as you guys


----------



## Micky

No, it is not that at all.

It is that it has been covered in detail already in this thread. You can find it here if you want to. I was just being a bit ornery today...

Feel good that it is not the DSL40c thread, that one is huge.

Anyway as far as your question, there are a few here that have mounted a 12" in the 5c. The 10" hole doesn't require modification to put a 12" in there, but the bottom of the combo case does. It does not fit without modification, but the baffle is fine. You also have to be very careful about 12" placement, as it may interfere with the tubes.

Sorry there is no index, but it is covered at least a couple different times in this thread...


----------



## iommifan

Thanks for the wealth of information that you have provided here. I'm going with the small amps, because frankly I'm tired of the big amps and toting them around. This amp is practical for me. And I love doing mods like that. I will read through all of the threads with the great pictures. And I will absolutely not ask any more questions. 
Thanks Jimmy


----------



## Micky

No, never stop asking questions, That is how we get better.

But read all you can! There is a wealth of information here, contributed by many knowledgeable people, most much more knowledgeable than I am. 

And be sure to post your experiences here, this is the spot to share all you can. This thread is for everyone, there is much here that applies to many other amps as well.

Just remember, there are no stupid questions, only stupid answers...


----------



## Kennyinct

Micky said:


> Jeez, have you actually READ this thread?
> 
> You are hereby banished until you read every post...


----------



## Kennyinct

Marcell said:


> Yesterday I got myself a 1960B cabinet for the DSL5C....Whoowoh that sounds great!! Only 2 minors of the amp: Treble isn't wat it should be, can't get it bright sounding. 2e Amp isn't pedal friendly for distortionboxes (Not that I need it with this amps overdrive channel)
> 
> Maybe it's possible to do the bright cap mod on this one??? to place a cap over the legs of the volumeknob of the gain channel?? I'm not a hero with electronics but I did this a while ago with a Bugera V5 amp witch is sounding dark ...with the mod it brightened op on low volume.



Marcel, which pedals have you tried? Just curious because I bought my amp used without the footswitch and have been using overdrive and distortion pedals exclusively with the amp. Lots of good tones.


----------



## Micky

Also - Are you trying your pedals in front or in the loop?
I have had great success with a GE-7 and RV-5 in the loop, as well as an OD-1x and a modded DS-1 in front.

Just got a chorus pedal as well as a flanger, but haven't tried them yet, I would imagine they would work well in front also...


----------



## Marcell

Kennyinct said:


> Marcel, which pedals have you tried? Just curious because I bought my amp used without the footswitch and have been using overdrive and distortion pedals exclusively with the amp. Lots of good tones.




I use the VOX Satchurator... and its to fizzy to my ear (sounded great on my JMP-1 And 9100 Marshall) I Put the gain down and the volume of the pedal but it isn't sounding great especially on high volume of the amp.


----------



## Kennyinct

I've never tried the Satchurator....I run a wah, acoustic simulator , Digitech Bad Monkey (low gain tones), NXGeneration overdrive (mid gain tones) into the front and chorus,reverb,delay,boost and tuner in the loop. You can probably tell I like pedals.


----------



## iommifan

Alright Micky, I said I wasn't going to ask any more questions. But I am coming back dragging my tail for help. I got my DSL5 and it is perfect for my needs except one problem. It has a buzz to it. When nothing is plugged into it on the clean and gain channel. Just one solid buzz, you can turn all the knobs doesn't affect it at all. What's going on I don't know. Have tried all the preamp tubes with new ones swapped them around, tried a different speaker still buzzes. Sorry for the long winded question. But any help would be appreciated.


----------



## Marcell

iommifan said:


> Alright Micky, I said I wasn't going to ask any more questions. But I am coming back dragging my tail for help. I got my DSL5 and it is perfect for my needs except one problem. It has a buzz to it. When nothing is plugged into it on the clean and gain channel. Just one solid buzz, you can turn all the knobs doesn't affect it at all. What's going on I don't know. Have tried all the preamp tubes with new ones swapped them around, tried a different speaker still buzzes. Sorry for the long winded question. But any help would be appreciated.




Maybe groundloop?
You could try to plug it in a grounded socket


----------



## Kennyinct

Mine has a slight hiss, I wouldn't call it a buzz. I find it tolerable. Unnoticeable when playing. Not sure if that is what you are experiencing. But definitely try a different outlet on a different circuit. They can make a dramatic difference. Also flouresant lights and other electronics on the same circuit can introduce buzz and hum.


----------



## stillrockin

when i played with it it was cool
but i did not like the upper Mids


----------



## Micky

iommifan said:


> Alright Micky, I said I wasn't going to ask any more questions. But I am coming back dragging my tail for help. I got my DSL5 and it is perfect for my needs except one problem. It has a buzz to it. When nothing is plugged into it on the clean and gain channel. Just one solid buzz, you can turn all the knobs doesn't affect it at all. What's going on I don't know. Have tried all the preamp tubes with new ones swapped them around, tried a different speaker still buzzes. Sorry for the long winded question. But any help would be appreciated.



So have you tried different power tubes in it yet? 
Is it biased properly?

Sometimes half a 12BH7a can go south, creating an imbalance in the bias, causing a buzz. Try replacing the power tube.


----------



## Micky

Kennyinct said:


> Mine has a slight hiss, I wouldn't call it a buzz. I find it tolerable. Unnoticeable when playing. Not sure if that is what you are experiencing. But definitely try a different outlet on a different circuit. They can make a dramatic difference. Also flouresant lights and other electronics on the same circuit can introduce buzz and hum.



On the Ultra Channel? With the gain way up?

Or is it all the time with nothing plugged in?


----------



## Kennyinct

All the time, with either channel volumes on zero. I did just receive a new power tube that I got for a spare. I will give it a try to see if it lowers the hiss. Like I said it is only really noticeable when I am practicing quietly at home and I stop playing. It is very low but there. I figured it was just in the design or layout of the amp. This is the only DSL5 I have tried so I can't compare. I still love this thing. It's not going anywhere.


----------



## rr82rip

This is my DSL5C with a Vintage 30 installed. Completely changed the sound. The DSL40C is going up for sale. Plenty of roar now from this beast inside the house. When I Mic it with my PA I am in heaven.


----------



## Kennyinct

Glad you like it! I love mine as well. Putting in the 12" speaker is a huge plus. It's amazing how good 5 watts can sound.


----------



## Micky

Kennyinct said:


> Glad you like it! I love mine as well. Putting in the 12" speaker is a huge plus. It's amazing how good 5 watts can sound.



Told you so. About 5-10 pages ago...


----------



## Elliot Twist

Hello all, I thought about this thread when I lined up my collection of small amps for an Amp Carnival on Labor Day. Love the mods you are doing to put in a 12" speaker. I'm OK most of the time with the stock speaker, but if things get serious I use my 2X12 or 1X12 external cab or a 4X12. Post #297.
The DSL100H blew a fuse during rehearsal while I fortunately had the DSL5C in the building for the Carnival. I simply dropped the DSL5C atop the 4X12 and finished rehearsal. Wasn't certain why the fuse blew, so during repair time I ran the 1X12 V-30 cab and miced it. Here's a pic of the little amps. The Class 5 almost sounds the best of them. I use a Behringer Tube Monster VT999 to achieve the illusion of channel switching on the Class 5.
But the DSL5C still wins, because I run a few things on the FX loop.


----------



## Kennyinct

The effects loop was a must for me. I've read a lot of good things about the Class 5 but I am really happy with the DSL5. I know most guys are using this a home amp but it is my gigging amp and it amazes everyone once it is mic'd up.


----------



## Micky

I occasionally have a GE-7 graphic equalizer and a reverb pedal in the loop.

I pride myself in not being a 'pedal person' but since the DSL5c has no reverb, I use a BOSS pedal when I am on the Classic channel.


----------



## Kennyinct

Unfortunately I've had a pedal addiction for many years Mickey. I'm used to tap dancing a lot. Just can't stop! LOL


----------



## Micky

Hey Elliot! No photos appear...


----------



## Elliot Twist

No Photo appears in Post #380, because I didn't post it correctly. Here's a second shot at it.


----------



## Micky

Nice collection!


----------



## Elliot Twist

Thanks Micky, those are my practice amps. Since '72 I've found it necessary to practice a lot. I'm still trying to get there. I play in working hard rock cover bands, so the challenge never seems to end. There also good to toss in the car to visit friends. One of those and the 1X12 V-30 always sounds darn good to me. I never have to worry 'bout my sound. Thanks Marshall and Ibanez. I am however, a bit spoiled by my DSL100H full or half stack.


----------



## Elliot Twist

Uh-oh, My DSL5C has developed a serious problem. With or without the foot switch, when I switch from the Red Channel to the Green Channel there's a huge pop sound. This makes it impossible to switch between dirt and clean without a loud click boom. All volume and gain knobs on zero there's still a click sound. Raising the gain on the Red Channel increases the issue, as well as raising the volume knobs. I made sure the tubes are all in tight. From there I'm done on my end. I am not any type of tech, so I'm lost from here.
I'm going to replace V1 and V2 each with Ruby 12AX7AC7 HG+
Dougs Tubes doesn't seem to have a TAD 12BH7, so if I can get a suggestion on that tube I'll switch that one too, as well as probably the 4th tube too.
Maybe it's not even the tubes. 
Any help or suggestions could save me some time and money and a repair bill.


----------



## Mateva

I have a quick question. I want to run my JMP-1 pre through a lower power amp so I can play around with it in my flat without getting evicted. The DSL5c in low power mode seems about right. Is it possible if I were to run the JMP-1 pre through the 5c's effects loop return, ie with nothing going through the 5c's main input? Would the clean volume act as the power amp volume control in this case? I can't work out whether this would work - I've read about the 4 cable method being used on this amp but it's not quite the same thing. Any thoughts or suggestions appreciated - thanks!


----------



## Micky

It will work fine, but the DSL5c will not control the volume as you have described.
The DSL5c volume on the Classic and Ultra channels only works on the preamp of the DSL5c, it does not control the power amp in that fashion.

You would need to use the controls of the JMP-1 to control the volume.


----------



## Murray

I just picked up a DSL5C. Price was one I just couldn't pass on. Listed as a refurb unit, not a mark on it & a cursory inspection reveals one ECC83 different from the rest. All, including the 12BH are Marshall labeled (no TAD...).

So I sat with this sucker this afternoon & ran a Strat, LP & P90's thru it & was impressed with all. I agree with wanting a gain control on the Classic channel & would like to have a reverb available. But what is there is pretty nice. Speaker is ok for what it is. Gain didn't get too out of hand. Overall sound was very responsive to tweaking between guitar vol, gain & eq. Cool to find the 'happy places'. Took a while to find the comfort zone for the Strat, but I got there. Deep sw & tone shift added interesting elements too. Lo power got a little flubby but I have to play with that a bit yet.

Overall very impressed with this amp. I'm looking forward to running some different tubes thru there, as has been discussed earlier in this thread. I need to get a TAD 12BH7. Any thoughts on TAD's 12AX7 or ECC83? Figure as long as I'm trying new stuff. 

I do not need a new amp & do not usually get or keep anything that didn't come in the door broken. This is something different for me. Wouldn't have bought it if not for the comments & info contained in this thread. Sweet.


----------



## JAC

I ran a TAD power tube on mine and it sounds great. I put the original Marshall power tube in it again. I'm ready to switch back to the TAD. The Marshall factory tube is acting up on me a bit. It has acted up with both cord or with my Line6 G30 wireless system. I really like my DSL5C.


----------



## Micky

Murray said:


> I just picked up a DSL5C. Price was one I just couldn't pass on. Listed as a refurb unit, not a mark on it & a cursory inspection reveals one ECC83 different from the rest. All, including the 12BH are Marshall labeled (no TAD...).
> 
> So I sat with this sucker this afternoon & ran a Strat, LP & P90's thru it & was impressed with all. I agree with wanting a gain control on the Classic channel & would like to have a reverb available. But what is there is pretty nice. Speaker is ok for what it is. Gain didn't get too out of hand. Overall sound was very responsive to tweaking between guitar vol, gain & eq. Cool to find the 'happy places'. Took a while to find the comfort zone for the Strat, but I got there. Deep sw & tone shift added interesting elements too. Lo power got a little flubby but I have to play with that a bit yet.
> 
> Overall very impressed with this amp. I'm looking forward to running some different tubes thru there, as has been discussed earlier in this thread. I need to get a TAD 12BH7. Any thoughts on TAD's 12AX7 or ECC83? Figure as long as I'm trying new stuff.
> 
> I do not need a new amp & do not usually get or keep anything that didn't come in the door broken. This is something different for me. Wouldn't have bought it if not for the comments & info contained in this thread. Sweet.


The TAD 12AX7 (7025 I think...) could quite possibly be some of the best, lo-noise, current production preamp tubes available. Possibly even better than NOS stuff...


----------



## Murray

Micky said:


> The TAD 12AX7 (7025 I think...) could quite possibly be some of the best, lo-noise, current production preamp tubes available. Possibly even better than NOS stuff...



Thanks Micky & JAC. AE stocks TAD 12AX7, 7025-WA & ECC83-WA's. The '12' appears to be heavier on the mids & highs while the other 2 appear to lean on the lows more. Not sure of what the real difference will be. All are priced low enough to try em out. 

In the meantime, I'm going to open this sucker up tomorrow & take a look inside the chassis, check the bias & run a mix of different pre tubes thru the sockets just to see what shakes out (EH, JJ, Mullard, TS). Fun stuff.


----------



## samadams

Ran my DSL5C dimed for an hour today. Could really hear the balls of the amp but that speaker....

Okay, I did use a Marshall Powerbrake.


----------



## Murray

Checked the bias on this amp today. Came in at 94.2mV with 447vdc plate to cathode on V3. That figures out to be @60% dissipation. A little cool perhaps.

I ran 12AT, AU & AY as well as 5751 tubes thru in various combinations but didn't find anything I really liked better than the stock Marshall labeled tubes, which I am assuming are Shuguang(?). Sure wish this amp had chassis mounted sockets instead of pcb. But...

I ordered a few TAD tubes (12BH7A, 7025 & ECC83) to try out. Might up the bias a bit towards 110mV just to hear what happens or I might just play as is while waiting the new tubes. I need to get a better handle on the Classic channel too, as it's a bit too shrill to my ear. A little reverse engineering next time I'm inside.


----------



## Murray

The stock Celestion G10R-30 is not my favorite, for sure. Not as horrible as I expected but an upgrade is in the cards at some point. The 12" conversion looks very interesting & I'll probably get there. I might try a G10 Greenback 1st just for S&G's. It would still have the limitations of a 10" but might be enough to make it interesting.

EDIT: FWIW, I upped the bias to @65% to 102mV and swapped tubes to V1:JJ 5751, V2:Mullard RI 12AX7, V4: EH 12AT7. The amp had a noticeable hum when idle with nothing plugged in which was caused by the stock PI tube. The 'AT' tube likes the PI slot & the amp is now dead quiet. Nice.
Not so sure about the JJ & Mullard but I'm leaving them in there at least until I get the new TAD tubes. Until then this combo works.


----------



## Murray

Installed the TAD 12BH7 today. Monitored the bias at the test point as power ran up & it stabilized at 96mV, so a little cooler than the stock tube. Adjusted to 102mV & I'll run that for a bit & see how it plays. 

Tried rolling the 7025 & ECC83 TAD tubes thru V1&2. No joy. Both made the Classic channel too brittle & both took the sweetness out of the Gain channel. So I went back to the JJ 5251 in V1, Mullard RI 12AX7 in V2 & EH 12AT7 in V4 & I'm liking this a lot. Still want to try a few more options in V1.

I'm tempted to follow the 12" speaker route on this. Then again, I really would like to hear what a Celestion G10 Greenback does. 

I've not posted up anything not already covered in this thread. Just keeping it alive. Thanks Micky for starting this back in '13. Cool little amp.


----------



## Micky

Isn't it awesome?

Mine sits beside my fatass chair right in the living room.
I get inspired, and it is right there, I can dial in almost any tone.
Still wish it had more clean volume, but it is not a 100W amp...


----------



## Murray

Swapped the stock Ten-30 speaker for a Celestion G10 Greenback today. Massive goodness. Still a while to break in but I'm liking it enough to stop thinking about modifying the box for a 12". At least for the moment.


----------



## tazz3

Ima looking for a low watt amp and I been eyeing this, I like marshals 
And I like there tone I have a epiphone les Paul with pro buckers
I have a 10 watt amp on order but for a little more money
This dls5c has all the bells and whistles I need it's the only amp
That I will need,


----------



## Micky

You will like it, it has a headphone output also.


----------



## tazz3

Cool Mickey I have the Laney cub 10 I might cancel it and get the dsl5 
How loud is it lol


----------



## Micky

It has the potential to be very loud. It also has a 1-Watt switch so you can back it down a lot.
With the Master Volume you can really turn it down, and to go silent, use the headphone jack with your favorite headset or earbuds.


----------



## tazz3

Sorry to ask this but I for got are the newer ones built better then the frist gen ones
Cause that wire losens up on the loop thing did they fix it ?? So it don't come off
This will be my frist tube amp and I thing it's every thing I need so I won't need another one I just started and iam about 10 years away fro. Playing in front of people lol


----------



## Micky

So where did you hear about a cable problem?


----------



## tazz3

I though it happend to your DSL 5 in one of the threads u said that the little wire came lose from the socket??


----------



## Micky

tazz3 said:


> I though it happend to your DSL 5 in one of the threads u said that the little wire came lose from the socket??



OK, but that doesn't mean that 'all 1st gen' Marshalls have a problem.

I could have bumped the cable and loosened it myself.

Never assume anything.


----------



## Micky

Check out the DSL5c Leo has for sale...


----------



## tazz3

Do u have a Link?? I wanna say thank u for all the help


----------



## Micky

tazz3 said:


> Do u have a Link?? I wanna say thank u for all the help



It is in the Member Classified section.


----------



## andomar

The 12BH7 and 12BH7A tubes are quite different. They both have a 3.5 watt maximum plate dissipation rating, but the 12BH7 has a maximum plate voltage of 300 volts versus 450 volts for the 12BH7A. Seventy percent of 3.5 watts would be about 2.5 watts. At a plate voltage of 435 volts, 2.5 watts translates to a bias of 5.7 mA per side or 115 mV measured at the bias test point.


----------



## andomar

I decided to follow some of the pioneers from this thread and jam a twelve inch speaker in my DSL5C. I used a Celestion G12 Century Vintage for the speaker. I have one of these in my Blues JR and I love it. It only weighs 3.5 pounds and it has a mellow Vintage 30 vibe. Before installation, I took some measurements and found that the speaker is mounted to a board that is over one inch thick. For some reason Marshall decided to use a 5/8 inch board for the speaker with 1/2 inch spacers for the grill cloth. So I purchased a piece of 3/4 Birch plywood and decided to start from scratch. Using 3/4 inch plywood provides an extra 3/8 of an inch for tubes. I cut the bottom slot with a router and purchased some Marshall fabric for the replacement grill cloth. I decided to leave the Marshall emblem off since it would have obstructed a large portion of the sound hole. After removing the bright cap from the classic gain channel, the amp sounds and looks great. I’m working on some mods for a classic gain channel master, a presence control and a variable deep boost. I‘ll post those results and the mod info when I’m finished.


----------



## Micky

Awesome job! Welcome aboard!

Many new members put a post in the Introduce Yourself section to tell everyone here a little about themselves and the music they like to listen to and play. Looks like you have a very good head start...


----------



## samadams

I put G10 Greenback in mine today. Easy peasy install. Speaker needs some break in time.


----------



## JAC

I'm becoming curious about the G10 Greenback. I might put the TAD 12BH7A-STR back in because yes, it does sound that awesome. I'm still tickled pink about this amp. For those wondering, personally I feel the headphones sound great with this amp as well.


----------



## cragginshred

What about using a slave set up to both go to a 2x12 or 4x12 cab and run a final power amp to both provide head room and push bigger cabs of choice and be the final volume to crank classic ch as rytm and use ch 2 as solo.???

Would this work?


----------



## paulorr8179

Last year (maybe 2 years ago?) I was in GC in NYC tried Hughes & Kettner, Mesa, Orange and the SDL15 and by far the DSL was the most rounded. The price was the best. Mesa was way too high in comparison. H&K sounded good on high gain. DSL had great clean and great high gain. Cannot go wrong with this amp.


----------



## Micky

cragginshred said:


> What about using a slave set up to both go to a 2x12 or 4x12 cab and run a final power amp to both provide head room and push bigger cabs of choice and be the final volume to crank classic ch as rytm and use ch 2 as solo.???
> 
> Would this work?



Of course it will work.

I have done this with several different power amp & speaker combinations.
The 5c is the perfect little preamp...


----------



## deanproxy

I have a DSL5 and love it. I run it through a 1x12 cab. I did actually do the 12" mod that Micky and others did, but I liked the sound through the external cab a bit better.

How does this amp compare to the DSL40, other than wattage? I mostly play at home and just jam with friends. 5 watts is ample for my needs, but I'm curious if the DSL40 would be nice to have since it appears to have a lot more features such as a crunch channel. Does the crunch channel on the DSL40 sound better than just lowering the gain in the ultra channel in the DSL5? Right now I get sorta dark crunch sounds by sitting on the ultra gain at around 1/4 and rolling my guitars volume back a tad, but I do like to play some classic rock and blues sometimes and I'm wondering if I'm missing something. Unfortunately, no shops around me have the darn thing in stock so I can't play it for at least another month. I was considering ordering it online...


----------



## Micky

If you order one, be sure you can return it if you don't like it.
Shipping is expensive though...

The 5c is a different beast in comparison to the 40c.

The 40c has gain and volume controls on both channels, as well as 2 modes per channel.

As you know the 5c has one mode per channel. and no gain control on the Classic Channel. It is like the 5c has Classic Crunch and Ultra 1 only.

Best advice is to try one. Even if you have to drive a ways to get to one. 10 bucks for gas is a lot better than a $700 mistake if you don't like it.


----------



## deanproxy

I'm looking. Nobody from shops I know about have one within 30 miles of me. I kinda live in the middle of nowhere.

Is the 5c tonally different to the 40c on the Ultra channel? Can you get the same crunch sounds out of the 5c as you can on the 40c? I doubt I'd use OD2 on the 40c... That's really what I'm curious about. I don't think I'd need it if the amps sounded identical.


----------



## Micky

See, that is just it. They are not identical, only vaguely similar.

At least the 5c has a gain control on the Ultra channel like the 40c. It is more like a cross between Ultra1 & Ultra2 on the 40c. 

Sound from the amp has more to do with the speaker than anything else. It sounds to me like you have the 5c sounding pretty good, so if you get a chance to play a 40c, do it. Sounds like there is no rush...


----------



## Duffy49

deanproxy said:


> I have a DSL5 and love it. I run it through a 1x12 cab. I did actually do the 12" mod that Micky and others did, but I liked the sound through the external cab a bit better.
> 
> How does this amp compare to the DSL40, other than wattage? I mostly play at home and just jam with friends. 5 watts is ample for my needs, but I'm curious if the DSL40 would be nice to have since it appears to have a lot more features such as a crunch channel. Does the crunch channel on the DSL40 sound better than just lowering the gain in the ultra channel in the DSL5? Right now I get sorta dark crunch sounds by sitting on the ultra gain at around 1/4 and rolling my guitars volume back a tad, but I do like to play some classic rock and blues sometimes and I'm wondering if I'm missing something. Unfortunately, no shops around me have the darn thing in stock so I can't play it for at least another month. I was considering ordering it online...



My DSL40c is a real nice amp, even at low volume. It has a lot of controls and gain choices. My stock speaker is broken in and sounds good, but I'm sure that that a Texas Heat or Swamp Thang would sound better.

It is flanked by a couple real nice amps. One I have at arms length is my Blackstar HT5-RH head with reverb plugged into my Avatar cab with twin Eminence Swamp Thang speakers. It sounds very good.

Another amp I'm playing a lot recently is the Roland Cube 80GX I just bought new for 350, plus I'm supposed to be getting a 50 dollar mail in rebate. The Cube has great models and some decent effects and sounds great. It has three channels, starting with the JC Clean that emulates the Roland Jazz Chorus amp of some fame. Then there is the versatile "Lead" channel with ten amp models from blackface to screaming overdrive - quite nice actually. I dig this digital amp.

Anyway, I think that a DSL40c would be a great amp to add to your collection. It has a lot to offer in terms of versatility and the sound is great, plus you can crank it up if you want to shake the house. It also has a half power switch. It's a very cool amp. I have played mine a lot and continue to play it a lot. It is a favorite for sure.

Good luck and I hope you are happy with the DSL40c if you decide to get one; which I suppose you will be, to say the least.


----------



## blase

Micky said:


> At least the 5c has a gain control on the Ultra channel like the 40c. It is more like a cross between Ultra1 & Ultra2 on the 40c.



40c has a lot more gain?


----------



## Micky

Let me go measure it... Not!
How can anyone tell? Past 5-6 on the gain knob and I can't tell...


----------



## astr0z0mb1e2k14

Well, I did it.....

Finally, install a 12" speaker in mine and boy am I glad I did....

Everything I was missing with the 10" is there now. Can't wait till this weekend to jam with the guys and watch their expressions.

Since I used my craftsman rotary tool and a dremel attachment to route it, the slot wasn't hard for me to cut into the cab.

After that, I put a fresh coat of paint on it to restore the factory look.

I went with a 2003 MIE Celestion 12H30 70th anniversary. Must be broken in well cause I am not getting the ice picky sound that most complain about this speaker.

If you are able, I recommend upgrading from the 10" stock speaker to a 12".

Off to enjoy the fruits of my labor


----------



## Marshy

I just got one of these today and it's a great amp...but it seems to make quite a lot of noise. Even with nothing plugged in, on the green channel, with all knobs a zero there is quite a load hissing and buzzing. Can you guys (honestly) tell me how much of this is normal?

About 2 weeks ago I went into a different music shop from where I bought this one to test the DSL5c and see what it was like. I remember paying quite a lot of attention to it's noise floor and was pretty pleased with it, from what I can recall. But this one I have now seems pretty noisey. I am going to go back into the first shop again tomorrow to check out their display model once more to compare. 

On the one I have now, The noise floor is much more acceptable when you use the 1 watt mode. But I swear the 5 watt mode was not this noisey on the first one I tried.

Another thing I find odd with my amp (can't remember if the shop one was like this)...is when I unplug the guitar lead from the amp I can still hear the speaker hissing and buzzing away...eg the signal is not being sent to ground when no input is plugged in, which is quite common for amps, is it not? Do your guys DSL5c do the same thing with no lead plugged in?

All of this is quite ironic..as I only made a post on here about a similar problem with my old VS100 a while ago. I bought this DSL5c as an upgrade to get some quieter recording ability. (and nicer full valve tones at more manageable volumes of course)

Thanks for any info.


----------



## Micky

Something is not right.
If you just got it, take it back, get another if possible.
You have a 5-year warranty, use it.

I would suspect a bad tube, it may be something as simple as that.


----------



## Marshy

Would you be able to check if the amp should go to ground when no lead is plugged? And your saying that your amp is making pretty much zero noise when the green volume is at zero? It's not I don't trust you , it's just I don't trust myself, this sort of thing seems to happen to me a lot! I want to be 100% I am not hearing some thing that is normal.

Thanks for assistance

Ps, I am rocking away on it right now, just ignoring the noise for the moment and enjoying the sweet sounds out of this little box...man it really does sound nice.. so loud too! Makes me not want to go through the pain in the butt that is the returns process. :/ But if it has a problem then I will have too. I'll never be happy with it other wise. Plus I want to be able to record it..and that requires the lowest noise floor possible.


----------



## andomar

Marshy said:


> I just got one of these today and it's a great amp...but it seems to make quite a lot of noise. Even with nothing plugged in, on the green channel, with all knobs a zero there is quite a load hissing and buzzing. Can you guys (honestly) tell me how much of this is normal?
> 
> About 2 weeks ago I went into a different music shop from where I bought this one to test the DSL5c and see what it was like. I remember paying quite a lot of attention to it's noise floor and was pretty pleased with it, from what I can recall. But this one I have now seems pretty noisey. I am going to go back into the first shop again tomorrow to check out their display model once more to compare.
> 
> On the one I have now, The noise floor is much more acceptable when you use the 1 watt mode. But I swear the 5 watt mode was not this noisey on the first one I tried.
> 
> Another thing I find odd with my amp (can't remember if the shop one was like this)...is when I unplug the guitar lead from the amp I can still hear the speaker hissing and buzzing away...eg the signal is not being sent to ground when no input is plugged in, which is quite common for amps, is it not? Do your guys DSL5c do the same thing with no lead plugged in?
> 
> All of this is quite ironic..as I only made a post on here about a similar problem with my old VS100 a while ago. I bought this DSL5c as an upgrade to get some quieter recording ability. (and nicer full valve tones at more manageable volumes of course)
> 
> Thanks for any info.



If you're getting a buzzing sound with nothing plugged in and with all the controls set to zero, something may be wrong. However, if it is a hissing sound, that may be normal. This amp has a really high noise floor caused by the effects loop design. You can verify this by plugging a cable into the effect loop return and shorting it out with a jumper. This basically zeros the input to the power amp. If you still hear the hiss, its probably normal. If it goes away, there may be something wrong in the preamp. My amp drove me crazy, you could hear the hiss across the room. I spent days troubleshooting only to find out there was nothing really wrong, just a poorly designed circuit. I ended up changing a dozen components in the effects loop to get the noise floor to an acceptable level for recording.


----------



## GuilliHo

I have a quick question about this amp. I’m fairly new to tube amps, in fact this is my first tube amp ever. I’m more of a blues/rock player and I find this amp’s gain a bit too much. I was reading a book about tube amps and the author recommends to use 5751 tubes on V1 and V2 and 12AT7 on the phase inverter to even out the ration between preamp gain and power amp gain. I decided to try this idea so I ordered 2 5751 and 1 12AT7. Now my problem is that I don’t know the position of the tubes on the DSL5C. The book says that “usually”, the phase inverter is the tube that is closer to the power amp and V1 is the tube closer to the input jack. I just wanted to double check with you guys since you already know this amp inside out. I attached an image showing how I think it is. Can someone please confirm if this is correct or not? Thank you!


----------



## Murray

Your layout is correct.


----------



## Micky

The DSL5c is a little different in comparison to other amps as far as the tube layout is concerned.

You are correct that V1 & V2 are the preamp tubes. V4 is the Phase Inverter and V3 is the final power tube. V3 should be a 12BH7 or an ECC99.


----------



## GuilliHo

Excellent! Thank you so much guys! I’ve attached an image with the layout and the tubes I used to tame this amp since it might help somebody else. 

This definitely changed this amp. It lower the volume, which in my case is perfect because I only use this amp for playing at home and it was way too loud. 

It also produces less distortion from the pre-amp (way cleaner distortion too) and you can tell that now the power tube is working harder (since I need to turn up the volume more) … I love it … the amp is way more responsive and dynamic (I don’t know, it just came to live hahaha … I’m feeling the connection hahaha). 

I’ve only played with it for a few minutes but I’m loving it thus far! I’m finally able to use the ultra-gain channel.

FWIW I also changed the speaker a few weeks ago. I installed a Celestion G10 Greenback. I’m really enjoining this amp now!

Thanks for all your help! This threat is full of awesome information!


----------



## Murray

Just out of curiosity, what brand 5751 & AT7 are you using?


----------



## GuilliHo

JJ -> I got them from Amazon. Here are the links:

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008ELWYH4/"]http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008ELWYH4/[/ame]


[ame="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000UMFQHA/"]http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000UMFQHA/[/ame]


It was like $45 total.


----------



## Murray

Thanks, GuilliHo. Glad you're happy with the sound. The Greenback makes a big difference too.


----------



## Robo

Marshy said:


> I just got one of these today and it's a great amp...but it seems to make quite a lot of noise. Even with nothing plugged in, on the green channel, with all knobs a zero there is quite a load hissing and buzzing. Can you guys (honestly) tell me how much of this is normal?
> 
> About 2 weeks ago I went into a different music shop from where I bought this one to test the DSL5c and see what it was like. I remember paying quite a lot of attention to it's noise floor and was pretty pleased with it, from what I can recall. But this one I have now seems pretty noisey. I am going to go back into the first shop again tomorrow to check out their display model once more to compare.
> 
> On the one I have now, The noise floor is much more acceptable when you use the 1 watt mode. But I swear the 5 watt mode was not this noisey on the first one I tried.
> 
> Another thing I find odd with my amp (can't remember if the shop one was like this)...is when I unplug the guitar lead from the amp I can still hear the speaker hissing and buzzing away...eg the signal is not being sent to ground when no input is plugged in, which is quite common for amps, is it not? Do your guys DSL5c do the same thing with no lead plugged in?
> 
> All of this is quite ironic..as I only made a post on here about a similar problem with my old VS100 a while ago. I bought this DSL5c as an upgrade to get some quieter recording ability. (and nicer full valve tones at more manageable volumes of course)
> 
> Thanks for any info.





Hi

I am new to forum. It has been a pleasure to read that thread. 

Just to say , an awesome sounding amp !!! 

I myself am thinking of changing a speaker to 10" celestion gold , which hasn't got mentioned here yet. It is an expensive one , and while you guys may suggest 12" one , i need a real good quality for quiet evenings playing at home .
But that will wait...

I too have come accross a hum also called by few others buzz or noise while nothing is being plugged in . Hum doesn't change its loudness or character if volume knobs are turned up , however i want to point it out that hum level is changing when bass knob is turned upor tone button is on . 
Basically it is a pain in the a... It is so annoying!

And as some one here also mentioned i get that nasty pop when switching from utra gain to classic.

It's a second hand unit so no warranty but i have just dropped it off at my local tube wizard to have a look at it. 

So to all of you affected by this fault , come back shortly and i may have an answer to your pain.


----------



## stillrockin

i would like one but i think my fullbore metal mxr is better for metal


----------



## Robo

So i got message from my friendly tech saying that ...

1)loud pop ( harsh thump he called it ) - DC leak resistor replaced

2)new ECC83 tube fitted to stop hum

I should have it back on friday and will add a comment if all of it worked


----------



## Micky

Find out which resistor it was if you can...


----------



## Robo

Micky said:


> Find out which resistor it was if you can...




I will ask him when i pick it up.


----------



## stillrockin

i think the new Satriani model will be better but louder
so, for bedroom
i don't know


----------



## tao

Thanks or all the great info in this thread, really helpful!

Got a new DSL5c on Wednesday. Love the sound through LP, played a couple hours testing out different settings. Wednesday night played with Grado headphones, pretty loud since the Grados are easy to drive (32 ohm).

Thursday at lunch went back to speaker output and the volume kept dropping in and out (about a 50% decline, couple times a minute for several seconds). Troubleshooted for a couple hours:
Same results on classic gain or ultra gain, on normal power or low power mode, at any volume (well, really only tested up to 5 or so).
Same results with different guitar and different cable.
Didn't seem like output tube since guitar straight into FX return didn't cause issue.
Had some spare 12ax7 tubes from home stereo, individually swapped a good one into V1, V2, and V4; still had problem so ruled out preamp tubes.
Nothing on the circuit board looked obviously wrong, i.e., loose cable or broken solder.
Odd thing is that touching or slightly depressing the tone switch button almost always immediately resolved volume drop (no other button or switch had any effect).
About to give up and return to Amazon when one more test... back to headphone mode with the Grados and couldn't get the volume drop to happen after several minutes?
Went back to speaker output and everything is fine??

Played a couple more hours last night and no problems.

Another hour today and no problems.

Any ideas on what could have caused this? Debating whether to exchange it. Would prefer not to have to ship it back and be home for delivery again, but maybe that's better than it happening after the return period?

Thanks for the help.


----------



## Duffy49

Micky said:


> The DSL5c is a little different in comparison to other amps as far as the tube layout is concerned.
> 
> You are correct that V1 & V2 are the preamp tubes. V4 is the Phase Inverter and V3 is the final power tube. V3 should be a 12BH7 or an ECC99.





Interesting. The power amp tube is the same as in my new Blackstar five watt head, Blackstar HT5-RH, a 12BH7. This amp, HT5-RH, is also an awesome amp thru my Avatar two by twelve vintage style cab with twin Eminence Swamp Thang speakers. Super awesome.


----------



## Sailindawg

Awesome thread guys! Thanks for your efforts and sharing a lot of info. I'll be getting one of these amps as soon as GC sends it via UPS, hopefully sooner rather than later.

What has intrigued me with this amp are the simple mods and tube changes that can be done. It is all pretty well explained. BUT, is there a simple guide that shows the monitoring points and how to set the tube BIAS?

It seems that all tubes are biased from one trim pot. That makes things more simplified. But never having done such a thing, I'd appreciate a step by step guide, if one exists. I've checked for quality amp techs in my area, but they are like hens teeth. 

Thanks!!

EDIT:

Did some searching and found this video regarding biasing a DSL 40C. Studying this thread, pictures from post #31 showed the similarities between the 5c & the 40c pc boards after viewing the video. However, the 5c has only 1 bias trim pot & the test pins. Post #144 further details the test pins and factory set bias trim points. Post #258 summarizes biasing the amp plus describes the range/effects of bias adjustments within the prescribed range. Setting the bias on this amp seems very straight forward.

Many, Many thanks to Micky, Mickey and the others that have posted their mods and outcomes. I'm really looking forward to getting this amp!


----------



## Micky

tao said:


> Thanks or all the great info in this thread, really helpful!
> 
> Got a new DSL5c on Wednesday. Love the sound through LP, played a couple hours testing out different settings. Wednesday night played with Grado headphones, pretty loud since the Grados are easy to drive (32 ohm).
> 
> Thursday at lunch went back to speaker output and the volume kept dropping in and out (about a 50% decline, couple times a minute for several seconds). Troubleshooted for a couple hours:
> Same results on classic gain or ultra gain, on normal power or low power mode, at any volume (well, really only tested up to 5 or so).
> Same results with different guitar and different cable.
> Didn't seem like output tube since guitar straight into FX return didn't cause issue.
> Had some spare 12ax7 tubes from home stereo, individually swapped a good one into V1, V2, and V4; still had problem so ruled out preamp tubes.
> Nothing on the circuit board looked obviously wrong, i.e., loose cable or broken solder.
> Odd thing is that touching or slightly depressing the tone switch button almost always immediately resolved volume drop (no other button or switch had any effect).
> About to give up and return to Amazon when one more test... back to headphone mode with the Grados and couldn't get the volume drop to happen after several minutes?
> Went back to speaker output and everything is fine??
> 
> Played a couple more hours last night and no problems.
> 
> Another hour today and no problems.
> 
> Any ideas on what could have caused this? Debating whether to exchange it. Would prefer not to have to ship it back and be home for delivery again, but maybe that's better than it happening after the return period?
> 
> Thanks for the help.



Check to insure all the tubes are seated in the sockets properly, also check all your cables.


----------



## Memdroid

I was lucky I got a very good deal on this little combo a couple of months ago. Just barely for $250 (230 euro's) in mint condition. I really like it, but I liked it even better when I connected it to my SL5 speaker. Because I have limited space in my house and even two of these amps can take a lot of room I have to choose to let one go. But I really like BOTH of these amps through the Celestion V30 speaker. Than I figured out a crazy idea. I don't know if it is doable and I really don't care about the economic loss, but is it possible to turn this combo into a little head without much hassle? I mean, removing the speaker and cutting down on the empty space and install the original bottomplate can shrink the size considerably. It won't be really pretty though.


----------



## Micky

It is possible, but why butcher it?
Just plug it into a small external speaker?
Stack it on top.


----------



## Ozark

Hi Micky, this thread is very informative and great for people wanting to hop on to their very first Marshall amp or even low wattage all valve/tube amp.

I am still contemplating between the DSL5C to the Backstair HT5R H (Head) coupled with the Vox V112NT-G2 Cab (1 x 12 Celestial G12H)??? 

It gonna be a tough decision though, but am very incline to go with the real-sound thingy (Marshall DSL5C) then the wanna be - sound in your head (Blackstar HT5RH).

I play mainly rock, blues & metal and mainly at home. Presently, am using a
Vox VT20+ (Hybread Amp).

So, shall I go with the DSL5C? Any comments or advise?


----------



## Micky

Ozark said:


> Hi Micky, this thread is very informative and great for people wanting to hop on to their very first Marshall amp or even low wattage all valve/tube amp.
> 
> I am still contemplating between the DSL5C to the Backstair HT5R H (Head) coupled with the Vox V112NT-G2 Cab (1 x 12 Celestial G12H)???
> 
> It gonna be a tough decision though, but am very incline to go with the real-sound thingy (Marshall DSL5C) then the wanna be - sound in your head (Blackstar HT5RH).
> 
> I play mainly rock, blues & metal and mainly at home. Presently, am using a
> Vox VT20+ (Hybread Amp).
> 
> So, shall I go with the DSL5C? Any comments or advise?



If you can, demo them both in person.
Having never played a Blackstar, I can't really comment other than that.

At least purchase from a reputable dealer where you can return it if you don't like it.


----------



## GibsonKramer

Having played many blackstar, they sound cool at first, then very, very bland.

The only one I really think has any character, is honestly the little 1w combo with reverb. I think that is the best sounding lunchbox tube amp, for what I play. Don't have one though. Don't need one.

But man, I've played a lot of freaking Blackstar, looking for that sound... and it just isn't in there. Not in the ID:Core, not in the other HT, etc.

Buy the Marshall.


----------



## Ozark

Hi Micky & GibsonKramer, thanks guys for the quick response.

Will definitely try them out from both dealers in Singapore prior purchase.

Are there any DSL5C owners out there using it with the Vox V112NT-G2 Cab (1 x 12 Celestial G12H)??? Am thinking of going this way instead of modding it with a 12" speaker.


----------



## tazz3

Im ordering this amp tomorrow, i just got a Laney cub 10 its nice
But i have a les paul, something is missing from this amp
The dsl5 has more settings and stuff so i will be happy


----------



## vintage_blabla

Robo said:


> I will ask him when i pick it up.



Any news on this particular resistor Robo?


----------



## Sailindawg

I have an external 1x12 cab with a 16 ohm speaker. I can easily unplug the combo speaker and plug the 1x12 cab into the amp's speaker out jack. Now I have a 1x12 amp. I got to thinking that why couldn't I use the combo speaker in tandem with the cab and now have a 2x12 amp? My thought was I could run the amp both ways, as a 1x12 or as a 2x12 mini stack of sorts. Modding the amp from the 10" speaker to a 12" speaker now makes a lot of sense.

However, I am no electronics expert. I do understand that I need to keep the amp impedance the same as the speaker impedance. With just the single cab, no combo speaker, I'm fine.

I came across this. A parallel Y splitter for amp speaker/cabs.

From what I understand, the splitter will see 16 ohms at the plug end at the amp jack, but the resistance will be halved to 8 ohms / leg of the Y cable. Going back to my initial idea of being able to use both speakers at the same time, will using the two 16 ohm speakers still be a problem? From what I understand, the amp will still see 16 ohms, each leg will be only 8 ohms with a 16 ohm speaker attached.

Is this doable? Can the two 16 ohm speakers be utilized in this fashion?


----------



## Micky

You need a load of 16-ohms total.
A parallel splitter as you describe will give you an 8-ohm load if used with 2X 16-ohm speakers.

Theoretically, you could use 2X 8-ohm speakers with a series splitter...

Sorry.


----------



## Sailindawg

So, the load going to the amp would be only 8 ohms through the splitter?


----------



## Micky

Sailindawg said:


> So, the load going to the amp would be only 8 ohms through the splitter?


Correct.


----------



## xStonr

I have both the Blackstar HT5h and the Marshall DSL5c. Buy the Marshall, it is the better sounding amp.


----------



## vintage_blabla

Talking about biasing this amp, I replaced the stock Marshall branded (and not TAD) power tube with a balanced gold pin JJ ECC99. I had to almost crank the bias pot to get it up to 110mV. At the maximum bias pot setting it reads around 130mV. Just a hint for those who might consider this tube.

Another thing is what have been discussed many times but I just cannot express what an improvement to this combo is to replace the stock speaker with a good 12" one! Stock it sounded thin, fizzy, mushy near cr*p I would say. Classic gain was ok but ultra was really bad. I replaced all preamp tubes with Tung-Sols, 12AT7 in the V2 position but still not ok. Cranked the amp through an attenuator gave ok-ish results but still the same fizzyness. After installing a well broken in Rola GT12-65 I was like wow that's a whole different amp and one killer tone! I didn't have time/chance to crank it yet but still on low volume it sounds much much better. I would say that for the first try, 90% of what I hated in this amp is gone.
The speaker swap is a definite must to do on this amp to get a good Marshall tone.


----------



## Marshy

Vintage_blabla:In 5 watt mode, how is the idle white noise or static for you on this amp, with the volume off on the clean channel? can you hear any on the headphones/line in? Did changing the power tube have any effect on this sort of white noise sound/noise floor?



vintage_blabla said:


> Talking about biasing this amp, I replaced the stock Marshall branded (and not TAD) power tube with a balanced gold pin JJ ECC99. I had to almost crank the bias pot to get it up to 110mV. At the maximum bias pot setting it reads around 130mV. Just a hint for those who might consider this tube.
> 
> Another thing is what have been discussed many times but I just cannot express what an improvement to this combo is to replace the stock speaker with a good 12" one! Stock it sounded thin, fizzy, mushy near cr*p I would say. Classic gain was ok but ultra was really bad. I replaced all preamp tubes with Tung-Sols, 12AT7 in the V2 position but still not ok. Cranked the amp through an attenuator gave ok-ish results but still the same fizzyness. After installing a well broken in Rola GT12-65 I was like wow that's a whole different amp and one killer tone! I didn't have time/chance to crank it yet but still on low volume it sounds much much better. I would say that for the first try, 90% of what I hated in this amp is gone.
> The speaker swap is a definite must to do on this amp to get a good Marshall tone.


----------



## Sailindawg

@vintage_blabla

Changing out that stock 10" speaker is one of the best mods for this amp. Many thanks to Micky for that experiment. I hooked my amp to a 12" WGS ET65 that's inside a 1x12 cab. The difference is quite amazing. Going to the 1x12 cab, the EQ is now actually quite usable. I'm thinking of replacing the Celestion ten 30 with a WGS Retro 10. A bit more mid rangy than the ET65. I was hoping that I'd get something a bit different in tone than the 12".


----------



## vintage_blabla

Marshy said:


> Vintage_blabla:In 5 watt mode, how is the idle white noise or static for you on this amp, with the volume off on the clean channel? can you hear any on the headphones/line in? Did changing the power tube have any effect on this sort of white noise sound/noise floor?



I cannot comment how it is over the headphone but through the speaker it's quite apparent unfortunately, I would say that it's even louder than with the stock tube. But I have to check it further and try a line filter tomorrow too. I'll let you know the results.


----------



## vintage_blabla

Sailindawg said:


> @vintage_blabla
> 
> Changing out that stock 10" speaker is one of the best mods for this amp. Many thanks to Micky for that experiment. I hooked my amp to a 12" WGS ET65 that's inside a 1x12 cab. The difference is quite amazing. Going to the 1x12 cab, the EQ is now actually quite usable. I'm thinking of replacing the Celestion ten 30 with a WGS Retro 10. A bit more mid rangy than the ET65. I was hoping that I'd get something a bit different in tone than the 12".



I'm quite sure that the big difference in tone has more to do with the quality of the stock speaker than its size. I was considering a 10" Greenback first but since there's a possibility to mount a 12", I decided to take full advantage. Good luck with your 10" experiment!


----------



## Sailindawg

Yes, that's what has my interest in replacing the 10" with a more quality speaker. I thought that the tone difference between the ET65 & the retro 10 could provide for a more interesiing practice amp tone wise.


----------



## Micky

Sailindawg said:


> Yes, that's what has my interest in replacing the 10" with a more quality speaker. I thought that the tone difference between the ET65 & the retro 10 could provide for a more interesiing practice amp tone wise.


This was the first thing I tried. 
I just cannot fall in love with a 10", I had the smooth cone WGS in there for a bit.
It was much better, but still not a 12" quality speaker.
I ended up with a WGS Vet30 in there, as well as some tube rolling.

Now a quad of 10"? That is a different story!


----------



## Sailindawg

@Micky 

What particularly did you dislike about the 10" speaker? Was too thin of a tone? Lack of ability to use EQ functions to fullest? 

I understand that a 10 will not project like a 12, but I'm just trying to understand the differences, not having had a lot experience with this.


----------



## Micky

Sailindawg said:


> @Micky
> 
> What particularly did you dislike about the 10" speaker? Was too thin of a tone? Lack of ability to use EQ functions to fullest?
> 
> I understand that a 10 will not project like a 12, but I'm just trying to understand the differences, not having had a lot experience with this.


You nailed it right there, it just doesn't project like a 12".
I also found that the mids and deep bass, especially with the volume rolled back on the Classic Channel were a bit different than a 12".
My whole experiment here was to get a 5W/1W DSL combo that was lighter than the DSL40c and sounded similar. Now I know the EQ is much different, and there is no real similarity in the controls, but I think I reached my goal, the combo is now 20 pounds lighter than its big brother.

With some tube rolling and no real drastic mods I have it to a spot where I am comfortable with the tone, even if it is only a 2-channel/2-mode amp. I still get flubby bass with it turned up too much, as well as ice-picky treble if I do the same, but the range of EQ is excellent, the only thing I am really disappointed with is the lack of clean headroom. But then again, I have Fender amps for that, the '77 Princeton Reverb is modified for 12" as well and that is wonderfully sweet with tons of reverb.

10" speakers are fine, I had a bass cab with 8 10's, another Fender with 3 10's, and am currently building a Fender Champ 5F1 clone with a 10" in a tweed cab. The DSL5c is not a perfect, do-it-all amp but it can be a bit better if you have the resources.


----------



## Sailindawg

Thanks for sharing your thoughts!


----------



## vintage_blabla

I was rolling tubes today, V1 remained the same balanced Tung-Sol 12AX7 reissue and V3 the JJ ECC99 gold pin.

First try:
V2: Tung-Sol 12AT7W/6201 reissue
V4: stock Marshall 12AX7 as the PI
This setup gave very transparent lead tones on the ultra gain channel, very smooth highs, really sweet sounding but a bit lacking in string definition with riffs and chords.

Second try:
V2: Tung-Sol 12AT7W/6201 reissue
V4: Tung-Sol 12AX7
Terrible all-stock-tubes-like fizzyness for some reason.

Third try:
V2: Sovtek 5751
V4: Tung-Sol 12AT7W/6201 reissue
This gave me good string definition playing rhythm and most of the transparency of the leads of the first try remained but didn't sound that sweet and that transparent and highs weren't so smooth and round.

So as expected, it seems I have to make a compromise. I tend to lead towards the first setup, the leads just sounded so good! Somehow my materialist brain tries to pull me towards the pricier Tung-Sols rather than using cheapo stock Marshalls but I should rather listen to my ears I guess...

(Still cannot comment on idle and headphones noise, will test that later too.)


----------



## vintage_blabla

Well, I've been rolling tubes and testing the ultra channel for hours today and it seems that the tube that has the most influence on clean headroom and bringing down gain to usable levels is the PI. I've settled with the Sovtek 5751 there (and 12AT7 as V2) and have a very transparent gain channel now and with the gain at 4-6 it's still not in the same territory as stock on 2!

Of course, 5W mode also gives a lot more headroom than 1W mode.

I also installed a choke as I plan to run this cranked through an attenuator. I only found one with a 180ohm DC resistance so it took plate voltage down to 430V but I like the sound this way. Not cranked yet.

Micky: didn't you get more hiss with the choke on low volumes?


----------



## Micky

vintage_blabla said:


> Micky: didn't you get more hiss with the choke on low volumes?


No. My DSL is dead quiet both thru the headphones as well as thru the speaker.
Except of course on the Ultra Channel with the gain turned up.
Then there is an audible noise floor...


----------



## vintage_blabla

Micky said:


> No. My DSL is dead quiet both thru the headphones as well as thru the speaker.
> Except of course on the Ultra Channel with the gain turned up.
> Then there is an audible noise floor...



Interesting, it seems I get more noise floor than I should. It's not annoyingly loud though. I should try other outlets too because it's said to make wonders.


----------



## Micky

vintage_blabla said:


> Interesting, it seems I get more noise floor than I should. It's not annoyingly loud though. I should try other outlets too because it's said to make wonders.


Try different preamp tubes...


----------



## vintage_blabla

Micky said:


> Try different preamp tubes...



I think I've went through all the ones I have at hand. Which types do you use?


----------



## Micky

vintage_blabla said:


> I think I've went through all the ones I have at hand. Which types do you use?


I really don't feel comfortable anymore bragging about the preamp tubes I use.
Let's just say I have some expensive NOS tubes from the 50's & 60's.


----------



## riefil

I've read all pages. Maybe I missed it, but which tube is which location? ie V1, V2, V3, V4. How about a left to right for knuckleheads like myself


----------



## Ozark

xStonr said:


> I have both the Blackstar HT5h and the Marshall DSL5c. Buy the Marshall, it is the better sounding amp.



Hi xStonr, yes you are right, the DSL5C is better sounding. I finally bought my DSL5C and am very happy with it.

Have to thank Micky too for his info on this lovely amp.



xStonr said:


> I have both the Blackstar HT5h and the Marshall DSL5c. Buy the Marshall, it is the better sounding amp.


----------



## riefil

Topside layout:





As you can see, nothing special here. Standard stuff.
Here are some shots of the front and back:[/QUOTE]


----------



## riefil

Hey Mickey. I asked about this a couple of posts ago. It seem to go unoticed. From left to right in this picture what are the tube position? v1, v2, v4(power tube) and v3? Am I correct?[/QUOTE]


riefil said:


> Topside layout:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you can see, nothing special here. Standard stuff.
> Here are some shots of the front and back:


[/QUOTE]


----------



## Micky

I don't really remember. Look at the bottom of the chassis.
It is printed on the motherboard.
Sorry...

And no 'e' in Micky please.


----------



## riefil

Oops sorr-E about that! You don't seem very mouse like . I'll pull out the chassis, hopefully this weekend and report back.


----------



## JAC

One of the beautiful things about this amp is how good certain pedals do sound excellent through it. As much as some may not like the clean channel, I've had it come to life playing certain overdrives and boost through both channels. I enjoy putting dirt through the clean channel myself. Delays and flangers can go through the send/return. I've had my over a year now and I'm still digging it to the max.


----------



## Ozark

Hi JAC, good to know that you're enjoying the sounds you are getting from your overdrives and boost pedals. Am having some problem dialing in and nailing the sounds/tones from my Wampler Pinnacle (AIAB - EVH brown sounds). Maybe I shud dial it into the clean channel instead? On the Ultra Gain channel, it just don't click. Will get back with my dial-in.


----------



## Ozark

Hey Micky, I am not a techie, but if me wanna hook-up my DSL5C to an external 1x12 cab, how do I go about connecting it?;
a) Do I have to unplugged the short ¼" jack which was connected (by default) to the internal speaker and get a 'female to male jack' to fun into the external cab?
b) I don't thing we should use the 'emulated line out' for connection?

Replies from members out there are welcome too.

BTW - Thank you for your invaluable info on this post. I have purchase the DSL5C instead of the BlackStar HT5rH.


----------



## JAC

Ozark said:


> Hi JAC, good to know that you're enjoying the sounds you are getting from your overdrives and boost pedals. Am having some problem dialing in and nailing the sounds/tones from my Wampler Pinnacle (AIAB - EVH brown sounds). Maybe I shud dial it into the clean channel instead? On the Ultra Gain channel, it just don't click. Will get back with my dial-in.



Yeah the Pinnacle is a great pedal from the demos I've heard. I would try using it on the clean channel. I keep my volume lower because I'm a bedroom rocker. I would imagine if you play louder levels you would have to experiment. I find when I do crank with my DSL5C on both channels I've been having luck with most of my pedals. Even on the red channel I get a good tone without problems. For being a tube amp it has not been temperamental with pedals as a rule. On the other hand my JTM1H is pedal picky.


----------



## JAC

Ozark said:


> Hey Micky, I am not a techie, but if me wanna hook-up my DSL5C to an external 1x12 cab, how do I go about connecting it?;
> a) Do I have to unplugged the short ¼" jack which was connected (by default) to the internal speaker and get a 'female to male jack' to fun into the external cab?
> b) I don't thing we should use the 'emulated line out' for connection?
> 
> Replies from members out there are welcome too.
> 
> BTW - Thank you for your invaluable info on this post. I have purchase the DSL5C instead of the BlackStar HT5rH.




I'm no techie either but, I know you can just unplug the speaker and with 2 mono 1/4" phone jack males on a speaker cable ( not a shielded guitar cord! ) you can go to your external cab with a 16 ohm speaker. It is my understanding you should not go below the 16 ohm load. If you go out the emulated speaker/headphones jack you will only be getting 1/2 watt instead of five. You would not have to unplug your speaker in this case however. The main thing if you go out the speaker output is stay at 16 ohms.


----------



## Ozark

JAC said:


> Yeah the Pinnacle is a great pedal from the demos I've heard. I would try using it on the clean channel. I keep my volume lower because I'm a bedroom rocker. I would imagine if you play louder levels you would have to experiment. I find when I do crank with my DSL5C on both channels I've been having luck with most of my pedals. Even on the red channel I get a good tone without problems. For being a tube amp it has not been temperamental with pedals as a rule. On the other hand my JTM1H is pedal picky.



Hi JAC, played awhile ago with my Pinnacle on the clean channel and it sound sweet! Yeah, it works very well on the clean channel. Your post is informative. Thanks.


----------



## Ozark

JAC said:


> I'm no techie either but, I know you can just unplug the speaker and with 2 mono 1/4" phone jack males on a speaker cable ( not a shielded guitar cord! ) you can go to your external cab with a 16 ohm speaker. It is my understanding you should not go below the 16 ohm load. If you go out the emulated speaker/headphones jack you will only be getting 1/2 watt instead of five. You would not have to unplug your speaker in this case however. The main thing if you go out the speaker output is stay at 16 ohms.



Thanks Micky, will keep in mind that the extended cab must be @ 16 ohms. Ok, so I have to unplug the speaker prior plugging in the extended cab.


----------



## Ozark

JAC said:


> I'm no techie either but, I know you can just unplug the speaker and with 2 mono 1/4" phone jack males on a speaker cable ( not a shielded guitar cord! ) you can go to your external cab with a 16 ohm speaker. It is my understanding you should not go below the 16 ohm load. If you go out the emulated speaker/headphones jack you will only be getting 1/2 watt instead of five. You would not have to unplug your speaker in this case however. The main thing if you go out the speaker output is stay at 16 ohms.



Opps... Sorry JAC , I shud thank you instead of Micky.


----------



## stillrockin

when i tried it it was good but not so heavy metal or amazing distortion
do you play like this or do you add a pedal ?


----------



## JAC

Both. Just on its own I like the way both channels sound. I find with many pedals it boogies really nice. I generally like using nice ODs through the green channel. Pedals like the Arc Effects Klone or the Fulltone OCD or even a Timmy OD shine through this amp. More recently I find with a Strat and a Bogner La Grange, just with the boost even you get the most singing sweet sustain tone I happen to appreciate. The boost on this pedals really wakes up the clean channel.


----------



## JAC

If you want a real heavy metal type tone maybe you might want to look into the SL5. That amp has over the top metal tones for days with it. The clean on it does nothing for me however. That single EL34 can light up that amp.


----------



## stillrockin

the sl 5 is an amp which can do some basic blues rock without punch and hard rock tones
the sounds are not amazing at all
Gary Moore had amazing tones with the g force or in the 90's (Montreux)
Prince with purple rain live version
Slash in the AFD album
but nothing like that with this amp

so, it will never be a metal amp
i have it so i know it 
without the Marshall jackhammer (a pedal) i really don't like the sound at all
loud for a bedroom
very good feedback with the guitar and that's all what i like in this amp with the design too
i tried it with a lot of pedals: ht dual, tube king ibanez and even the weehboo jvm
it's not a fantastic
i think i would prefer a jvm or dsl because with the sl5
the warm tones are no so warm
the hard rock is not really possible (a very soft hard rock)
and not a metal 
so, i played with it sometimes like a second amp for delay or with my Marshall pedal
i know the dsl5 won't sound like that with my pedal but maybe i will have it one day because i can't choose between used 1 w amps too


----------



## Frankiepags

Just got mine yesterday, loving this lil guy, am gonna put a 12inch speaker in it at some point ,already have it in the closet. 10 inch doesn't sound bad for low volume. Was looking at the dsl 15 bigger speaker ,reverb another volume and so on, buy it just didn't sound as good to me sounded a lil thin to me tube difference really makes a big difference. Also was looking at the sl5 we had a used 1 in the shop for a month or so ..clean to me is not as good as the dsl 5 , also the dsl5 does have more gain on tap for sure , sl5 is a good amp but a lil pricey for me . I wanted an amp I could plug straight into with out breaking out my pedals , like many have said b4 on this thread marshall got this one right , also would like to thank everyone who has contributed to this thread, without it I might of had the dsl15 and only being partially happy with it...I have settled for less from marshall a few times , no more ..Dsl5c is here to stay glad they got this 1 right as I refuse to give up on the black and gold.


----------



## Frankiepags

Well still see people are reading this thread so I am gonna post again and try to keep this thread growing , there must be new people who have picked up this lil spectacular marshall any ways here goes...really really digging this amp it's everything I wish or was hoping my class 5 would be when marshall entered the low wattage game, who didn't what a mini plexi ? Also how many of us knew we would have to crank it so loud to break up???? Really , bedroom amp no way ..I ended up using it as a clean platform for some great pedals and got some great tones. Very good clean tones in there , I didn't buy a marshall for the cleans and I doubt any one does , it's a marshall not a fender. Enter the dsl5c all the gain I want and a master volume on the Ultra channel and it sounds killer and I would of been happier than a pig in shit , but marshall didn't stop there. They entered the low watt game a lil late and decided to go all the way and put the rest to shame with the classic clean channel. The cleans are outrageous on this amp really remind me of a clean plexi or the sparkly cleans of a Jcm 800 , no ice pick shrill here at all just a wonderful bold , bright and defined cleans, can't wait to add my reverb pedal in the loop, may not need that deluxe reverb after all...hell, who doesnt need a deluxe reverb....anyways marshall really gave us a bone with this clean channel. Cuz many of us would have been happy with the gain channel alone..was going to say sorry for the long post, than thought y join a forum in the first place...


----------



## makatech

I'm little curious about a comparison between the DSL1 Anniversary Edition and the DSL5, perhaps this already has been done?


----------



## stillrockin

dsl1 vs jcm1 vs jvm1 vs dsl5 for a bedroom?
if i want to play the songs of bon jovi 
+some heavy metal tones like evh.?


----------



## riefil

So this is what I've found based on Micky's picture it's V1, V2, V3(power tube) and V4. I hope this helps others as it has helped me


----------



## Frankiepags

I know there has been alot of people asking about the similarities and difference between this (5c) and the dsl15c. So a few weeks ago this guy bought a dsl15c for his apartment and is still trying to tweak for his needs..a month later he buys a hot rod deville for his apartment and realizes its way to loud, returns that and I point him to my favorite low watt marshall dsl5c and he mentions he has the dsl15c , I ask him how he likes it and he tells me , he is having problems dialing it in and that he really doesn't like it , I tell him the difference between the 2 amps , tubes , loop ,etc..he plugs it in and plays it for 20 mins and he absolutely loves it and this was what he thought his 15 would be..says the 5c just sounds way better than the 15c, warmer ,less shrill, and better distortion tones...for what this is worth this is the 3rd time in around 2 months that I have heard this and experienced it for myself...if ur in the market for 1 of these ,please play them first ..they are the same models but sound way different ..


----------



## Ozark

Hi Frankipags, you are absolutely right about playing all the amps first and make the right choice. I was lucky to have the honest sales guy in the shoppe to give me his personal opinion on the DSL5C (instead of the DSL15C or BlackStar HT5RH) as he himself owned one and he's darn happy with it. I played it, love it and bought it home and am very happy with it. If most of the time you are playing your rig in your bedroom (just like me), then DSL5C is the them amp for you. The clean channel is great too with a Strat! The FX Loop is great! I use my digital Zoom MS50 (Analog Delay/Reverb/Chorus) in it. The ability to use a headphone and MP3 input is a plus too (you can rock away without disturbing others). Marshall got it right for this little Amp! GREAT AMP for bedroom Rockers!


----------



## Duffy49

12 inch speaker upgrade?

When you guys install the 12" speaker in the DSL5C do you just use the front of cab hole for the 10" speaker or do you make that hole on the front a larger radius to allow the 12" speaker to project the sound better.

If so, how did you cut the larger hole? Rough cut it with a saber saw or what?

Or, can you effectively use just the existing factory hole for the 10" stock speaker? That would make it a lot easier, of course.

Thanks. I'm considering one of these.

The Dsl15c has a reverb; is it especially weak like some DSL40'S? The general opinion seems to be that the 5c is the better sounding amp. What is your opinion?

Note, I notice pags just posted regarding some of my questions. Thanks pags.


----------



## Micky

I used the existing hole, and it is not a problem.
To try and enlarge the existing hole would require trimming away quite a bit of the baffle, and might not leave enough surface to reliably mount the 12" speaker.
It would also require removing the grill cloth in order to do it correctly.
So what if it blocks a little sound. The little thing is too loud anyway...

All the DSL's use the same reverb board (daughtercard) and while I wouldn't say it is weak, it certainly is subtle.


----------



## Duffy49

Micky said:


> I used the existing hole, and it is not a problem.
> To try and enlarge the existing hole would require trimming away quite a bit of the baffle, and might not leave enough surface to reliably mount the 12" speaker.
> It would also require removing the grill cloth in order to do it correctly.
> So what if it blocks a little sound. The little thing is too loud anyway...
> 
> All the DSL's use the same reverb board (daughtercard) and while I wouldn't say it is weak, it certainly is subtle.




Thanks. I would probably try using the existing hole and appreciate your reinforcement of that idea. I may get one of these to replace my Blackstar ht5-rt head that smoked up on me this week and has bent back to Sweetwater for repair or replacement. Blackstar has a weak warranty. I plan to get a Marshall or Fender Bassbreaker 15 head. That little Marshall would fit right in with my DSL40C and a Swamp Thang 12" speaker mod. I like that the 5c is a small form factor amp. I can get it to sit right where the ht5rh sat, right by my side lounging on the bed in my den.


----------



## Jello

Hello everyone. This is my first post.

I bought a DSL5C a few months ago and I love it but I kind of thought the sound was not as robust as I would like.
I have a Peavey Valveking upgraded with a Celestion Vintage 30 that I use for jamming around town.
It doesn't quite have a Marshall sound but it isn't bad. I would have preferred a DSL40c for that kind of thing but I got
the Peavey for free. And, you can't beat free.
So, this DSL5c is strictly for a living room kind of thing.

I upgraded the DSL5c with a Celestion Greenback, I believe, and it sounded much better.
I've read how others have modified the cabinet to install a 12" inch speaker but I don't really want to do that.
It makes resale hard to do after that kind of modification.

How about a 1x12 extension cab? Wouldn't a cab with the proper dimensions produce a bigger sound?
I guess I could use the Peavey as a cab. I should try that. But, what a hassle.
A 1x12 extension cab wouldn't be that much extra to transport if that was something needed.
Plus, you could easily switch between 10 and 12 inch speakers.
Also, has anyone tried a decent EQ in the send/receive loop?
I want to try a BOSS or MXR. I've got TC Reverb pedal. It is tiny but I haven't used it, yet.

I apologize if this has been asked before. This is a very long thread. Lots of great information.


----------



## Duffy49

Jello said:


> Hello everyone. This is my first post.
> 
> I bought a DSL5C a few months ago and I love it but I kind of thought the sound was not as robust as I would like.
> I have a Peavey Valveking upgraded with a Celestion Vintage 30 that I use for jamming around town.
> It doesn't quite have a Marshall sound but it isn't bad. I would have preferred a DSL40c for that kind of thing but I got
> the Peavey for free. And, you can't beat free.
> So, this DSL5c is strictly for a living room kind of thing.
> 
> I upgraded the DSL5c with a Celestion Greenback, I believe, and it sounded much better.
> I've read how others have modified the cabinet to install a 12" inch speaker but I don't really want to do that.
> It makes resale hard to do after that kind of modification.
> 
> How about a 1x12 extension cab? Wouldn't a cab with the proper dimensions produce a bigger sound?
> I guess I could use the Peavey as a cab. I should try that. But, what a hassle.
> A 1x12 extension cab wouldn't be that much extra to transport if that was something needed.
> Plus, you could easily switch between 10 and 12 inch speakers.
> Also, has anyone tried a decent EQ in the send/receive loop?
> I want to try a BOSS or MXR. I've got TC Reverb pedal. It is tiny but I haven't used it, yet.
> 
> I apologize if this has been asked before. This is a very long thread. Lots of great information.




Jello, hello, welcome. I'm seriously thinking of buying a dsl5c and definitely putting in a twelve inch Eminence Swamp Thang speaker or such in it. The amp is for me, not the next guy, but to each their own.

The cabinet sounds like a great idea. I have an Epiphone one by twelve cab that could use a good speaker. But I want to keep it eight ohms, so the speaker upgrade to the new amp will probably be what I'll do.

Then again I might just get that new Peavey Classic 20 watt small head that has power variables and it can use any of my eight ohm cabinets. Still thinking it thru.

What guitar are you using? I have several, which is par for this forum and I'm deciding on my next one, ha, ha.

Are you starting to bond with the amp yet?. Good luck.


----------



## Jello

I have a few guitars; a couple SGs, Fender Strat, and a Warmoth mess I recently built that still needs a tweak or two.
I haven't been in a band for more time than I liked so the DSL5c is essential for me. I've got tons of backing tracks I've found online here and there.
They keep the chops going.
I just thought of something. Most guitar companies have custom shops where you can call up and order a guitar to your specs to some degree.
I don't know of many, if any, amp shop that will do the same. Can you imagine? Contacting Fender or Marshall and ordering an amp to your spec?


----------



## Duffy49

Frankiepags said:


> Well still see people are reading this thread so I am gonna post again and try to keep this thread growing , there must be new people who have picked up this lil spectacular marshall any ways here goes...really really digging this amp it's everything I wish or was hoping my class 5 would be when marshall entered the low wattage game, who didn't what a mini plexi ? Also how many of us knew we would have to crank it so loud to break up???? Really , bedroom amp no way ..I ended up using it as a clean platform for some great pedals and got some great tones. Very good clean tones in there , I didn't buy a marshall for the cleans and I doubt any one does , it's a marshall not a fender. Enter the dsl5c all the gain I want and a master volume on the Ultra channel and it sounds killer and I would of been happier than a pig in shit , but marshall didn't stop there. They entered the low watt game a lil late and decided to go all the way and put the rest to shame with the classic clean channel. The cleans are outrageous on this amp really remind me of a clean plexi or the sparkly cleans of a Jcm 800 , no ice pick shrill here at all just a wonderful bold , bright and defined cleans, can't wait to add my reverb pedal in the loop, may not need that deluxe reverb after all...hell, who doesnt need a deluxe reverb....anyways marshall really gave us a bone with this clean channel. Cuz many of us would have been happy with the gain channel alone..was going to say sorry for the long post, than thought y join a forum in the first place...






Thanks.


----------



## Duffy49

Jello said:


> I have a few guitars; a couple SGs, Fender Strat, and a Warmoth mess I recently built that still needs a tweak or two.
> I haven't been in a band for more time than I liked so the DSL5c is essential for me. I've got tons of backing tracks I've found online here and there.
> They keep the chops going.
> I just thought of something. Most guitar companies have custom shops where you can call up and order a guitar to your specs to some degree.
> I don't know of many, if any, amp shop that will do the same. Can you imagine? Contacting Fender or Marshall and ordering an amp to your spec?





I know an amp man here locally that will do that. You can tell him what you want and he will build it, within reason.


----------



## Frankiepags

Has anyone used a boost pedal like a spark booster , rc booster or ep booster with this amp ? If so let me know what ya think...I am all ears fellas ..thanks in advance..


----------



## JAC

The La Grange OD/Boost by Bogner sounds incredible with the boost on the green channel with my Strat Special. It is a sweet singing sustained tone that brings out a very fine tone in the DSL5C.


----------



## Ozark

Hi Guys, need end-users advise or recommendation as to which is the better application or Mac OS software for the followings?;
Sound Surgeon
Capo
RiffMaster Pro
RiffStation

Am looking for guitar isolation, EQ able, slow-downer, pitch-change and saving/exporting edited files as backup track for jamming.

Have done some findings and in my opinion, it looks like Sound Surgeon 4 tops the list.

All recommendation and comments are welcome.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Micky

Frankiepags said:


> Has anyone used a boost pedal like a spark booster , rc booster or ep booster with this amp ? If so let me know what ya think...I am all ears fellas ..thanks in advance..


I have used both an Overdrive as well as a Distortion pedal. both 'boost' the signal quite a bit.
The BOSS OD-1x is very versatile, as a clean boost it can deliver quite a bit of 'volume' before it starts to distort, making this little beast even louder than it already is.
I also have a modded BOSS DS-1 that can pack quite a punch, but it is all distortion and no clean whatsoever.

Both of them reise the db level quite a bit, depending on settings...


----------



## Frankiepags

Thanks Micky tried out a modded sd1 in front sounded pretty good, got a cusak more louder in a trade and that sounds really good in front..great lil booster pedal with over 25 db boost...also tried the cusak boosting the sd1 but decided on the cusak by it self..if u guys don't know about the more louder it's a great boost definitely recommend it..also the ep booster ,rc booster and the ac booster get rave reviews. That's all for now keep posting guys ..


----------



## Unoriginal

*Removed*


----------



## xStonr

After having this amp for some time, I really started to dislike the stock speaker. I was tempted to replace it with a better 10" but I didn't have one that was 16 ohm. I almost purchased one but decided to see what I had here. Turn out I had a Celestion V30 that was 16 ohm in a 2x12 cab I wasn't using. After taking another look at this thread I decided to make a cutout to accommodate the larger speaker. My work is a little sloppy, but the job did get done and that's the bottom line. If and when I change some tubes, I'll paint inside and maybe rotate the speaker. This is a great thread.


----------



## jamesm

If you are interested in changing the speaker, but don't want to effect the second hand value, then why not remove the whole baffle and fit a new one. If you measure the old baffle (allowing for the thickness of the grille cloth) then a timber yard will usually cut this for you, guaranteeing accuracy. You can then cut a hole with a jigsaw yourself, paint it with blackboard paint or similar (I have used water based children's paint mixed 1:1 with PVA glue with good results) and test your practical skills stretching a bit of cloth across it. Then when you sell, pop the original one back in.

As regards differences between the 15 and the 5, the only change I can remember that is not obvious from the outside is a change of a coupling capacitor in the OD circuit. It controlled the amount of bass frequencies that get distorted and tightens it up a bit. Not pure DSL, but I think it suits this amp's format better.


----------



## paul-e-mann

Jello said:


> Hello everyone. This is my first post.
> 
> I bought a DSL5C a few months ago and I love it but I kind of thought the sound was not as robust as I would like.
> I have a Peavey Valveking upgraded with a Celestion Vintage 30 that I use for jamming around town.
> It doesn't quite have a Marshall sound but it isn't bad. I would have preferred a DSL40c for that kind of thing but I got
> the Peavey for free. And, you can't beat free.
> So, this DSL5c is strictly for a living room kind of thing.
> 
> I upgraded the DSL5c with a Celestion Greenback, I believe, and it sounded much better.
> I've read how others have modified the cabinet to install a 12" inch speaker but I don't really want to do that.
> It makes resale hard to do after that kind of modification.
> 
> How about a 1x12 extension cab? Wouldn't a cab with the proper dimensions produce a bigger sound?
> I guess I could use the Peavey as a cab. I should try that. But, what a hassle.
> A 1x12 extension cab wouldn't be that much extra to transport if that was something needed.
> Plus, you could easily switch between 10 and 12 inch speakers.
> Also, has anyone tried a decent EQ in the send/receive loop?
> I want to try a BOSS or MXR. I've got TC Reverb pedal. It is tiny but I haven't used it, yet.
> 
> I apologize if this has been asked before. This is a very long thread. Lots of great information.


Sheesh you newbs, I have a good mind to send dreyn to your house and kick you square in the nuts for asking a question like that! 

Surely I jest LOL, and welcome! A cab would sound super as apposed to a mini open backed combo that it is. Make or buy a 2x12 and thank me later.


----------



## Rocktane

I still think I'm going get a used a used 5C, hack it up, and turn it in to a head (even though I dislike the looks of top mounted heads.) Marshall is missing the boat by not having a proper head version of this amp.


----------



## Mike Russo

vintage_blabla said:


> Talking about biasing this amp, I replaced the stock Marshall branded (and not TAD) power tube with a balanced gold pin JJ ECC99. I had to almost crank the bias pot to get it up to 110mV. At the maximum bias pot setting it reads around 130mV. Just a hint for those who might consider this tube.
> 
> Another thing is what have been discussed many times but I just cannot express what an improvement to this combo is to replace the stock speaker with a good 12" one! Stock it sounded thin, fizzy, mushy near cr*p I would say. Classic gain was ok but ultra was really bad. I replaced all preamp tubes with Tung-Sols, 12AT7 in the V2 position but still not ok. Cranked the amp through an attenuator gave ok-ish results but still the same fizzyness. After installing a well broken in Rola GT12-65 I was like wow that's a whole different amp and one killer tone! I didn't have time/chance to crank it yet but still on low volume it sounds much much better. I would say that for the first try, 90% of what I hated in this amp is gone.
> The speaker swap is a definite must to do on this amp to get a good Marshall tone.


Question...what did you do with the screws for the 10"? I assume that they protrude....did u cut them out? How did you secure the 12"? Thanks


----------



## paul-e-mann

Micky why did you get rid of your DSL5C?


----------



## Micky

pedecamp said:


> Micky why did you get rid of your DSL5C?


I haven't gotten rid of it... yet.

I don't play it much, and I am downsizing.
I figured it would be easy to sell the small stuff, but I think I was wrong.
Still for sale. It is sitting right beside me here in my office, poor little lonely thing...


----------



## paul-e-mann

Micky said:


> I haven't gotten rid of it... yet.
> 
> I don't play it much, and I am downsizing.
> I figured it would be easy to sell the small stuff, but I think I was wrong.
> Still for sale. It is sitting right beside me here in my office, poor little lonely thing...


Why don't you play it much? Do you have something that you like better?


----------



## stillrockin

and about a mini evh?


----------



## Mike Russo

Mike Russo said:


> Question...what did you do with the screws for the 10"? I assume that they protrude....did u cut them out? How did you secure the 12"? Thanks


Bump


----------



## Frankiepags

Great pictures of a 12 inch installed in this thread , ppl just put the 12 over the 10 inch baffle and re screw it in...some have cut out the baffle for the 12, to each there own.. hope that helps a lil check the pics , they should help.


----------



## Mike Russo

Frankiepags said:


> Great pictures of a 12 inch installed in this thread , ppl just put the 12 over the 10 inch baffle and re screw it in...some have cut out the baffle for the 12, to each there own.. hope that helps a lil check the pics , they should help.


Thanks for the reply.


----------



## JAC

Micky without an "e", what the heck did you do to make the DS-1 pack a punch as you posted sir? Inquiring tonehounds like me want to know.


----------



## stillrockin

5w ok but when i played with it 
the sound was good but not amazing and i played loud


----------



## Micky

JAC said:


> Micky without an "e", what the heck did you do to make the DS-1 pack a punch as you posted sir? Inquiring tonehounds like me want to know.


I did a few small mods, a couple caps here and there and changed the clipping diodes. Everything I did is on the Internet somewhere, It was so long ago I can't remember where I found everything...


----------



## Mike Russo

I just put a new 12" greenback in my new dsl5c...day and night difference between the stock 10" and the 12" greenback. Louder, fuller more bold easily keeps up with rehearsal levels (drums, bass, 2 guitars). I no longer need to hump the dsl40c to practice! I did something different however, I did not cut a slot at the bottom of the box, instead I used a disk sander and removed enough metal on the speaker frame to sit low enough in the box...other than the 4 new screw holes no mods were needed.


----------



## jbird5150

Hey guys--just picked one of these up and am loving it so far. But all the while I'm thinking "I'd love to have chorus and delay pedals for this, maybe a reverb too." Then I spotted my old Roland Cube 20X in the corner, with all those effects (and more) built in...

Anybody else rig the Cube effects up to a DSL5C or similar? Or should I just sell the Roland and get a couple of used pedals? Be gentle...I've never messed with effects or pedals before, so talk to me in your best "amps and effects for dummies" tone...


----------



## Frankiepags

That's actually a great Idea Russo , just grind the bottom of the speaker to fit , any pics , still need to get around to putting my 12inch speaker in, also have some tungsol 12ax7 and some ruby 12ax5hg to roll in this amp ,anyone use these tubes in there dsl5c?


----------



## Mike Russo

Frankiepags said:


> That's actually a great Idea Russo , just grind the bottom of the speaker to fit , any pics , still need to get around to putting my 12inch speaker in, also have some tungsol 12ax7 and some ruby 12ax5hg to roll in this amp ,anyone use these tubes in there dsl5c?


I sent you a private message with cell number to send pics. I can't seem to upload pics from my phone as media


----------



## Ozark

jbird5150 said:


> Hey guys--just picked one of these up and am loving it so far. But all the while I'm thinking "I'd love to have chorus and delay pedals for this, maybe a reverb too." Then I spotted my old Roland Cube 20X in the corner, with all those effects (and more) built in...
> 
> Anybody else rig the Cube effects up to a DSL5C or similar? Or should I just sell the Roland and get a couple of used pedals? Be gentle...I've never messed with effects or pedals before, so talk to me in your best "amps and effects for dummies" tone...




Am using the Zoom MS50G (Multi-stomp box) into the 'FX Loop' at the back of my DSL5C and it sounds great! Most of the time, I am using 'Delay' though. Chorus and Reverb also sounded great too.

Watch the DSL5C review by Rob Chapman & the Captain at Andertons, they did mentioned that you can run cheap chorus and delay effects pedals and it will sound good too.

That's what the 'FX Loop' at the back of the DSL5C is for, and probably some other use too.


----------



## Micky

Frankiepags said:


> That's actually a great Idea Russo , just grind the bottom of the speaker to fit , any pics , still need to get around to putting my 12inch speaker in, also have some tungsol 12ax7 and some ruby 12ax5hg to roll in this amp ,anyone use these tubes in there dsl5c?


Read the whole thread. There are lots who use these tubes...


----------



## jbird5150

Ozark said:


> Am using the Zoom MS50G (Multi-stomp box) into the 'FX Loop' at the back of my DSL5C and it sounds great! Most of the time, I am using 'Delay' though. Chorus and Reverb also sounded great too.
> 
> Watch the DSL5C review by Rob Chapman & the Captain at Andertons, they did mentioned that you can run cheap chorus and delay effects pedals and it will sound good too.
> 
> That's what the 'FX Loop' at the back of the DSL5C is for, and probably some other use too.



Thanks. I found a guy on CL who's almost giving away a Boss ME-70 so I'm going to snag that. Way more than I need, but isn't most of the stuff we buy that way?


----------



## Frankiepags

A tip to using those multi effects pedals is to turn off any amp simulation or it will color the amp way to much..besides that it should sound fine, boss has been in the game a long time..enjoy , nothing better than finding a killer deal.


----------



## patrick2099

Is this the proper power tube type for this amp?

https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/12bh7a-str-tube-amp-doctor-premium-selected

Thanks.


----------



## Micky

Yes. That is what came stock in mine.
I like it so much it is still there.


----------



## JAC

The TAD tube works just beautiful. You have to give it a listen and right off the bat you realize how good it sounds.


----------



## Ozark

Hi, any of you people uses the BOSS GE7 equalizer? Am considering of getting one for my DSL5C. It's better to get feedbacks from end-users rather then sales people or even youtube videos. Apart from the EQ uses, will also use it as a solo boost too. Appreciate all feedbacks and thanks in advance.


----------



## Frankiepags

Ge 7 is a good pedal , but if your gonna get an EQ pedal might as well get the 10 band dunlop one more bands to adjust. What are you trying to accomplish with it?


----------



## Ozark

Frankiepags said:


> Ge 7 is a good pedal , but if your gonna get an EQ pedal might as well get the 10 band dunlop one more bands to adjust. What are you trying to accomplish with it?



Thanks for your info, will check out the 10 band dunlop if they are available here in Singapore.
Well, will use it mainly as a solo booster.


----------



## srmd22

I have been eyeballin' these recently on reverb. From reading this thread, it sounds like you need to replace the speaker and hack into the cab, and drill a few more speaker mount screw holes to get a good sound out of it, at a minimum. I'm not clear if it needs a tube change? Does it need a capacitor lifted also, like with the 40c?

I can't decide - I am kind of lazy, not sure I want to buy a new amp and then immediately carve it up for a speaker swap (I would swap in another 10" without a worry though). Plus the complaints about lack of getting a decent clean sound are worrying me.

I guess I'll probably pass for now, but I am still curious about this model.


----------



## patrick2099

JAC said:


> The TAD tube works just beautiful. You have to give it a listen and right off the bat you realize how good it sounds.


I actually liked the stock power and preamp tubes in the DSL5. I just wanted to make sure I was ordering the right thing, since I am really unfamiliar with the ecc99's, and the idea of using a preamp tube as a power tube. Thanks for the info, everyone.


----------



## casey99

srmd22 said:


> I have been eyeballin' these recently on reverb. From reading this thread, it sounds like you need to replace the speaker and hack into the cab, and drill a few more speaker mount screw holes to get a good sound out of it, at a minimum. I'm not clear if it needs a tube change? Does it need a capacitor lifted also, like with the 40c?
> 
> I can't decide - I am kind of lazy, not sure I want to buy a new amp and then immediately carve it up for a speaker swap (I would swap in another 10" without a worry though). Plus the complaints about lack of getting a decent clean sound are worrying me.
> 
> I guess I'll probably pass for now, but I am still curious about this model.




I put a G10 Greenback in mine and it was a vast improvement over stock. Then a 12ay7 in v1 got me the cleans I wanted. These small changes made it the perfect amp for me!


----------



## ryechua

Robo said:


> So i got message from my friendly tech saying that ...
> 
> 1)loud pop ( harsh thump he called it ) - DC leak resistor replaced
> I should have it back on friday and will add a comment if all of it worked



just curious... has anyone ever found out which resistor was replaced for this channel switching issue? i would like to try it on my amp as well. thanks!


----------



## Mercury_82

Hello everybody, thanks for all the information in this thread.
I have a question:
I have recently started playing again (after a 15 year hiatus). I bought the DSL5c and a PRS SE Bernie Marsden (thick Mahogany body, Maple top LP style) . I chose the amp especially because of its "home-friendly" 1 W mode, because I'm living in a tenants Appartement. I do really like the sound of the amp, in particular the classic gain channel with cranked volume. However, as soon as the Volume gets to 12 o'clock or beyond, the bass gets really flabby and farty, when playing on the lower strings....and I can't really switch to 5W, because of the volume.
Would a speaker change reduce this? And if so, would a 12" be preferable, would a 10" work as well and are there any recommendations for a replacement ? Stylistically I like stuff from heavier Blues to Metal, any tips would be much appreciated.


----------



## JAC

Does not sound normal to me. Take it back if under warranty or maybe you got a bogus power tube.


----------



## Micky

Turn down the bass.
Also, experiment with the Tone Shift/Deep switch.

Unfortunately this is a characteristic of a 10" speaker, it is just not designed to reproduce the lower guitar notes cleanly.
You may also want to try plugging into an external cab, many times this totally changes the tone depending on the cab...

This is another reason many of us have swapped in a 12" speaker (with a few mods...).


----------



## Mercury_82

Hey guys, thanks for the tips.
I don't think it's a tube, because the flabbing only emerges when the volume gets beyond ~ 5 - 6 and it disappears when I turn down the bass (or switch to 5W with equal volume).
Currently using the amp with bass between 4 -5, deep switch off and tone shift off (don't like the tone shift anyways, even for metal). It's fine this way as long as I stay below ~ 5 Volume (1W mode), when using the neck pup on my PRS.
The main reason why the "flubbyness" is a problem at all, is because I really like the sound of the amp going into harder overdrive on the classic channel, so I need to turn it up. And to keep my neighbors happy I need to keep it at 1W.
I might try a 12" speaker in a separat cab, since everyone in this thread seems to agree that a 12" massively improves the amp. Would a WGS Reaper be a good match? Thinking about putting it into a Palmer 1-12 unloaded cab, since I don't really want to void the warranty on my DSL.

Thx again


----------



## MexicanMike

Damn, I wonder why you guys would modify the DSL5C, it's such a great little amp stock, it really is. I love mine.


----------



## Micky

MexicanMike said:


> Damn, I wonder why you guys would modify the DSL5C, it's such a great little amp stock, it really is. I love mine.


Because it can be better.

10" speakers are for kids. REAL guitarists use 12" speakers...


----------



## MexicanMike

Micky said:


> Because it can be better.
> 
> 10" speakers are for kids. REAL guitarists use 12" speakers...


 So you know better than professional engineers?


----------



## Micky

MexicanMike said:


> So you know better than professional engineers?


Are you a kid?


----------



## MexicanMike

Micky said:


> Are you a kid?


 
If your mods were so awesome, you wouldn't be fixing to get rid of your DSL. I'll keep mine stock, thank you.


----------



## Micky

Enjoy.


----------



## adam183




----------



## Ozark

casey99 said:


> I put a G10 Greenback in mine and it was a vast improvement over stock. Then a 12ay7 in v1 got me the cleans I wanted. These small changes made it the perfect amp for me!



Hi casey99, I bought a Celestial G10 GreenBack 30W 16Ω too, and it's on the way. Kindly advise, do you have to solder it or it is just unplugging and plugging in the speaker wires as it may comes with connectors? Thanks.


----------



## JAC

Ozark said:


> Hi casey99, I bought a Celestial G10 GreenBack 30W 16Ω too, and it's on the way. Kindly advise, do you have to solder it or it is just unplugging and plugging in the speaker wires as it may comes with connectors? Thanks.



I bet it will sound great.


----------



## Frank S

Ozark said:


> Hi casey99, I bought a Celestial G10 GreenBack 30W 16Ω too, and it's on the way. Kindly advise, do you have to solder it or it is just unplugging and plugging in the speaker wires as it may comes with connectors? Thanks.



It is just unplugging and plugging.


----------



## JAC

A Strat with Texas Specials going into the green channel, with the Bogner La Grange boost will give you a sweet singing sustained tone, which is very attractive to my ears.


----------



## Ozark

Frank S said:


> It is just unplugging and plugging.



Thank you for your info. Much appreciated. Looking forward to receiving it from my daughter (Berkeley, CA) when she comes back to Singapore.


----------



## Enrico

Hi everyone....where do i introduce myself? Sorry my english is bad, but my portuguese is fine (i´m from Brasil...hehehe).
I bought a Celestion G10 GreenBack 30W 16Ω too...sounds much better than the Ten 30.


----------



## Enrico

Hi.. i found the 'Introduce Yourself` area... and today i played a lot with G10 GreenBack 30W, uau, it´s other combo. A very good upgrade, now the EQ works more sensitive and sounds "full". 
Tanks everybody for the good material here.


----------



## Atlas82

Hi. I am from Spain and I am new on this forum. I have just introduced myself in the right thread. I have a dsl5c and it is time to change the tubes. I have read this whole thread, measured the bias, and obtained 95.9 mV in the stock Marshall 12BH7. I have measured the plate voltage, and I have obtained 430V. So I think I got similar results as yours.

I would like to thank you for this thread, because without it I would not have been able to verify the BIAS. Now I am waiting some TAD tubes.


Greetings


----------



## Atlas82

Have you seen Slash playing a DSL 5C?.

http://facedl.com/fvideo=aqauiwuuwxenownea


----------



## Blueslicks

In my local store...


----------



## shaftpolls

Hi Guys,

I'm new here as well, I would like to thank everyone for sharing experiences here. I'm also a happy owner of one 5C.

I would like to ask you if it's possible to change the power tube for a EL34. If so, what sound difference should I expect to get ?

Thanks a lot everyone


----------



## JAC

shaftpolls said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I'm new here as well, I would like to thank everyone for sharing experiences here. I'm also a happy owner of one 5C.
> 
> I would like to ask you if it's possible to change the power tube for a EL34. If so, what sound difference should I expect to get ?
> 
> Thanks a lot everyone



It will not take an EL34.


----------



## Micky

shaftpolls said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I'm new here as well, I would like to thank everyone for sharing experiences here. I'm also a happy owner of one 5C.
> 
> I would like to ask you if it's possible to change the power tube for a EL34. If so, what sound difference should I expect to get ?
> 
> Thanks a lot everyone


No. As JAC stated above it will not take an EL34. It is designed for a 12BH7 (ECC99) only.
You CAN however change the preamp tubes and change the tone a little.


----------



## AndyP

Hi folks. Not been a member on here long and still finding threads popping up that look really interesting - like this one!

Great seeing so many fans of the DSL 5. I bought one for myself as a birthday present back in July 2016 and still love it. I've had no issues at all with it really, it can hum a wee bit at times but nothing major and I'm pretty sure it's related to the house electrics rather than the amp. I've only been learning guitar for just over 2 years so I don't ask very much of my gear to be honest as I'm still learning so much that the biggest difference at any time is me myself, and the DSL is perfect for me. I play on the 1 watt mode at home and even then it's only on about 1/4 volume on either of the channels and coupled with a small selection of pedals I've basically ended up with every tone I could ever need from the wee DSL. I mostly play rock and blues with the occasional foray into heavier stuff and "lighter" clean stuff. I have no issues with the clean tone, to me it's absolutely what I want - I'm not a big fan of jangly cleans.

When I went amp shopping I was aiming for the Blackstar HT5R and when I tried it in isolation I was quite pleased with it. I also tried the (then brand new) Fender Bassbreaker 007 and finally the DSL5. For me the DSL was the clear winner. The Fender was fine but very basic in terms of features and didn't seem to sound of much at all, so I discounted that first and sat jumping between the DSL and HT5R. The more I played them, the more bland the Blackstar sounded and despite the HT5R having the bigger speaker, what seemed to be better quality materials and a few more knobs, the DSL was the winner for me. I've really never got on with the Blackstar ISF feature either, I find it a complete pain to get a tone that I want from these. "Bland" is really the best way I can describe how I found the HT5R.

Anyway, after 7 or 8 months of daily use I'm still delighted with the DSL5.

Andy


----------



## Jay76

Hi fellow DSL5c owners! I just got mine and I'm loving it. I appologise in advance for posting this twice, but can anyone tell me which is V1,V2 and V3? I want to swap out V1 for a Tung Sol that I have lying around. Thanks


----------



## AllanAnd

Atlas82 said:


> Have you seen Slash playing a DSL 5C?.



... Man, now I want one... Actually I had settled for a CODE for starters but that CCW sure looks sweet!


----------



## riefil

Jay76 this what I posted a few pages back. Hope it helps!



riefil said:


> So this is what I've found based on Micky's picture it's V1, V2, V3(power tube) and V4. I hope this helps others as it has helped me


----------



## mad5066

Hey All, I bought this amp back in December and am really liking it better than my class 5. I'm changing the speaker to a celestion G10 gold as I have a 12" greenback cab I can always use. I tube rolled to decrease the gain and give more headroom with the clean channel. But I'm not really feeling the overdrive channel as much. But I'm thinking of decreasing R6 to 100k from 220k to reduce the gain a little on both channels, that way I could use 12ax7s or 5751s. I plan on installing a choke once I get everything to my liking.


----------



## Jay76

riefil said:


> Jay76 this what I posted a few pages back. Hope it helps!


hey thanks for this! sorry for the late reply.

I replaced the speaker with a Greenback after reading all of the positive posts here about them. It took a good few hours before it sounded good (to my ears). At first I wondered if I had made the right speaker choice.

I also replaced all 3 pre amp valves with Harma Retro valves (from Watford Valves) and I put a TAD in the power section.

My god I love this amp now. It sounds better each day. It absolutely sings and I can't help but turn the vol up and end up with ringing ears.

Dare I say it (and I can't believe I'm actually saying this), but when comparing it to my stock SL-5 (which was my favorite amp) It's like taking the blanket off when I switch to the DSL5c.

The DSL5c is just in your face and so articulate.

I prefer it for both cleans and dirty tones.

I am using a Hardwire pedal for my spring reverb through the loop. Nice and transparent.

Fuzz face and wah through the front for Jimi inspired tones and dirty blues.

Channel 2 amp gain for heavy rock.


----------



## Antmax

I have a bunch of modeling amps some bought, some gifts but no tube. I'm seriously looking at the DSL 5, I might splash out a little extra for the Vintage or Western one since they would suite the decor of the house and help convince my wife to let me get one. 

It will be my first tube amp, hopefully it really can be played at a reasonable volume. I've not been playing that long and play worse when self conscious lol.


----------



## drinkbeerbefree

The volume that comes out of a dsl5 can be extremly reasonable at times. 
That i can tell you.


----------



## Jay76

Antmax said:


> I have a bunch of modeling amps some bought, some gifts but no tube. I'm seriously looking at the DSL 5, I might splash out a little extra for the Vintage or Western one since they would suite the decor of the house and help convince my wife to let me get one.
> 
> It will be my first tube amp, hopefully it really can be played at a reasonable volume. I've not been playing that long and play worse when self conscious lol.


That vintage one looks lovely! I didn't know they made one with that grill. I got the Country & Western one and it looks great with all my rustic wooden furniture. The brown covering looks like old brown leather. Love it.


----------



## Solid State

I hadn't looked closely at the Country Western one before, that's really nice looking.


----------



## Antmax

I just ordered the CW one. The vintage one seems to be really rare and Amazon had a few CWs left. I also have a CODE 50 I was thinking of upgrading the speaker on. It's a shame that they have impedance on opposite ends of the chart (4 vs 16 ohm) otherwise I could use it as a multipurpose cab/temporary effects unit. 

Anyway, thanks to Amazon prime it arrives on Thursday  Then I have to decide whether to get rid of the wireless spider V 60 under my desk.


----------



## markuskw

Where do I get my hands on one of these vintage models?? Are they new or location specific??


----------



## Antmax

markuskw said:


> Where do I get my hands on one of these vintage models?? Are they new or location specific??



I only found one on reverb and it was in France + extortionate shipping ($710.29 total). Way beyond what I was willing to pay. There's a DSL40c Vintage going for a similar price at Woodwind & Brasswind inc shipping here in the states for $700+tax and free shipping.


----------



## Antmax

Quick question.. I'm thinking of getting an 8 ohm Veteran 30 speaker to install in my Marshall code. If I wanted to use my code as a cab for the DSL5c would adding a high watt 8 ohm resistor in series with the speaker work? and if yes, what kind of impact would it have on tone?


----------



## Antmax

It looks like this $40 Galaxy Audio THSPM100 70 / 100 Volt Audio Transformer might work to step down from 16 ohm to an 8 ohm cab. Not sure how you would set it up though.

http://www.galaxyaudio.com/parts-and-accessories/thspm100#downloads



>


----------



## drinkbeerbefree

I got my 12" Greenback M today. I could not wait to put it in.  It was tighter than I thought it would be. Had to bend the tubes slightly out of the socket to avoid contact with the speaker. After I have put it all together again, everything works, but it's to late (after midnight) to test it thoroughly. A short test at low volume revealed that the bass is a lot less dominant compared to the ten30. I would even say the bass is a little weak, even with the deep switch engaged. Could this be to the fakt that the speaker is new and not played in? Besides that all sounded very clean and balanced. We will see what the next days (and practice sessions) will bring.






When the speaker has settled and my nerves are calmed down again  I will take a look at the tubes. But maybe I will need some help from someone here that is more experienced than me (almost everyone). 
So conclusion: The Greenback fits in. Nothing gone broken. Sounds ok for the first try, better than the ten30. I am happy. 
Thanks to Micky and everyone who shares his knowledge here.


----------



## Antmax

I got my DSL5c yesterday and really like it. I have a Code 50 and noticed quite a difference already. I don't yet have a reverb pedal only a tube overdrive so I'm a little limited. But it's the picking dynamics and control knobs on the guitar that are noticeably different to the solid state amps I've use in the past. I feel that the tone knob finally works like it is supposed to. Before it always seemed to be like a variable blanket that rolled of really quickly. With the tube amp it seems to have a lot more usable travel.

Anyway, I'm really liking it, being used to the bottom heavy code the 10" speaker doesn't have punchy lows, but it does pick up the dynamics of your playing and I understand the organic feeling people talk about when referring to tube amps. I also like that my wound strings no longer sound muffled beyond the 15th fret.

I want to upgrade the speaker in both the CODE and DSL to 12" so I'm currently looking into how to find a useable compromise between the impedance between the two. ideally I'd like to add a speaker input jack to the CODE giving me the option of using it as a 1x12 cab with the DSL rather than buy two seperate speakers.



>



It's a really cool amp, even without reverb. I'm looking out for a Hardwire RV-7 or possibly the Hall of Fame. Though I like the more natural Lexicon licensed effects of the Hardwire.


----------



## markuskw

I am looking at replacing the speaker. Going to go with the G10 Greenback. I apologize if this is the most basic question, but do i order the 8 ohm version or the 16 ohm??

thanks in advance


----------



## Ozark

markuskw said:


> I am looking at replacing the speaker. Going to go with the G10 Greenback. I apologize if this is the most basic question, but do i order the 8 ohm version or the 16 ohm??
> 
> thanks in advance




You have to go for the 16 ohm G10 Greenback.


----------



## Deemic

Hi All,

I'm new here and find this forum, and especially this thread to be an incredible source of information.
I'm really itching to swap the stock 10-30 out of the DSL5C.
I've needed to roll the treble back to "2" to get a decent bit of tone out of this amp.
For anyone who swapped out the stock speaker to a Greenback G10, I'm wondering is the "bite" and pick attack still somewhat present? Or does it give the blanket effect.
I don't want to completely lose that dynamic in my playing.
I guess my fear is that I'll end up with too smooth of a top end and sound muddy.
I'm using SSL-5 bridge, CS69 middle and CS50 neck pups.
It's not easy to find good sound clips on this configuration.
Ideas? Suggestions?


----------



## markuskw

im curious for the above question also, before I go and swap out for the g10


----------



## wakjob

Why is everyone replacing the speaker?
I Thought the Ten 30 was a nice sounding speaker.

Wouldn't an extension cab be a better route?


----------



## Antmax

wakjob said:


> Why is everyone replacing the speaker?
> I Thought the Ten 30 was a nice sounding speaker.
> 
> Wouldn't an extension cab be a better route?



Probably just that it's cheaper and people bought a combo for compact size and portability. Mostly for playing and practice at home. Most of the WGS speakers that are most popular are in the $70 - $80 range. Cheaper than most used cabs around here.


----------



## TarNhaK

Micky said:


> No. My DSL is dead quiet both thru the headphones as well as thru the speaker.
> Except of course on the Ultra Channel with the gain turned up.
> Then there is an audible noise floor...




hello im new to this forum , i buy the dsl5c and is not dead quiet at all


----------



## AllanAnd

TarNhaK said:


> hello im new to this forum , i buy the dsl5c and is not dead quiet at all




Those two jacks just lying on top of Your amp? They're not by any chance plugged into the effects loop, no?

If so... Remove them... If not... Disregard this post...


----------



## TarNhaK

AllanAnd said:


> Those two jacks just lying on top of Your amp? They're not by any chance plugged into the effects loop, no?
> 
> If so... Remove them... If not... Disregard this post...


oups yes the cable are in the effects loop, but i have the same noise without the cable in effects loop but less, i make another video this video have no cable in effects loop.


----------



## Antmax

A little hiss is normal with tubes whether it's a guitar amp or juke box. So long as it's quiet and doesn't have any buzz/humm and rhythmic pops and clicks then everything is fine. If your getting some of the other noises I mentioned then there might be ground loop or rf interference nearby. Things like fans, flourescent lights and dimmer switches can make extra noise. But a low hiss is normal.

With my DSL you get a little hiss even when the volume is turned off, in the clean channel it doesn't change and can't be heard when playing from pretty close. Expect a lot more noise from the Ultra Gain channel.


----------



## TarNhaK

Antmax said:


> A little hiss is normal with tubes whether it's a guitar amp or juke box. So long as it's quiet and doesn't have any buzz/humm and rhythmic pops and clicks then everything is fine. If your getting some of the other noises I mentioned then there might be ground loop or rf interference nearby. Things like fans, flourescent lights and dimmer switches can make extra noise. But a low hiss is normal.
> 
> With my DSL you get a little hiss even when the volume is turned off, in the clean channel it doesn't change and can't be heard when playing from pretty close. Expect a lot more noise from the Ultra Gain channel.



thanks im noob in tube amps


----------



## Deemic

TarNhaK said:


> thanks im noob in tube amps


If you notice a crackling or growling, it's 
probably the power tube or output transformer. Had that problem with an open box DSL5C I purchased. Exchanged it forsame model.... favorite amp I own.


----------



## TarNhaK

Deemic said:


> If you notice a crackling or growling, it's
> probably the power tube or output transformer. Had that problem with an open box DSL5C I purchased. Exchanged it forsame model.... favorite amp I own.


no crackling or growling just a little hiss see my video


----------



## TarNhaK

i have a stupid question where is the v1 v2 v3 v4 in this pic
because some people have change the v2 tube for a 12at7 for a better range of cleen It moved the start of the breakup from 2-3 up to 5-6 on the volume dial.


----------



## drinkbeerbefree

That was answerd several times in this thread. Its from left to right in the picture: v1, v2, powertube (v3), phaseinverter (v4). Have fun.


----------



## TarNhaK

drinkbeerbefree said:


> That was answerd several times in this thread. Its from left to right in the picture: v1, v2, powertube (v3), phaseinverter (v4). Have fun.


thanks like that


----------



## drinkbeerbefree

Yes, exactly!


----------



## TarNhaK

thanks.

this tread is dead,why so much hate about this amp , this amp is an awesome amp for home.


----------



## Micky

TarNhaK said:


> thanks.
> 
> this tread is dead,why so much hate about this amp , this amp is an awesome amp for home.


Dead? Hate? Please explain...


----------



## TarNhaK

Micky said:


> Dead? Hate? Please explain...


dead- this thread is not very active
hate- lot of people bash this amp not only in this forum i dont know why because this amp is awesome for home maybe not for gig and live but for home is awesome


----------



## Micky

Dude, this thread is 4 years old. Where were you?
Still in diapers?

People have done more with this amp in 4 years than you may ever do in your lifetime. Relax and keep playing.

Have you read the whole thread? There is some great stuff here, and it was contributed by people exactly like you. People who are excited about this little terror of an amp and have used it everywhere. 

This thread is dead only if you choose to ignore it...


----------



## TarNhaK

i not critic this awesome thread, this thread have lot of good info 

i juste want to talk about this amp im new here im maybe 4 years too late


----------



## Antmax

I don't see much if any criticism. It's not a new amp and people are always looking for the next best thing. I haven't seen any hate anywhere online, just not a lot of talk about it generally.

I'm new to the DSL5c and it's a great intro to Tube amps as someone coming from modeling amps. It sounds good really quiet or pretty loud and is the first amp that I feel like I want to play loud  I really like the way it feels and interacts with my guitar compared to my previous amps.


----------



## Ozark

I am someone that came from hybrid modeling amp and I can say that since having my DSL5C, it sounded so Marshally good even with stock speakers and on headphones too. There're not much bad reviews on this little fella too. 

The Ultra Gain channel of this little-hot tube amp really sounds good and natural to the point that I need not have to use my Wampler Pinnacle not to achieve the 'Brown Sound' as with my other hybrid modeling amp.


----------



## TarNhaK

anyone have tested a 12at7 in v2 for reduce de gain in cleen chanel ?


----------



## Micky

TarNhaK said:


> anyone have tested a 12at7 in v2 for reduce de gain in cleen chanel ?


Yup. Somewhere near the beginning of this thread.


----------



## TarNhaK

Micky said:


> V2 is the tube I swapped out.
> I put a 12AT7a in for the 12AX7a.
> Lowered the gain to where I like it a lot.
> 
> It may not be right for you though...


cool thanks i find it, the 12at7 in v2 affect only the gain in clean channel or reduce the gain of ultra gain channel too?


----------



## Micky

It will affect both.
I think you will find the reduction of gain in both channels most welcome.
Especially with a 10" speaker.


----------



## Ozark

Hi, anyone uses an Ibanez Tube Screamer with your DSL5C? Is the TS effective on both channels?
Am considering buying the Ibanez TS Mini Tube Screamer.


----------



## Woodekm

Posted in the Workbench area as well in case other models have seen this issue.

Hello! My 6mo old DSL5C has started to crackle and pop when idle. Eliminated every possible problem, so I got it down to tubes. It was bad once before so I changed out the bad factory Marshall tube (one at a time to eliminate the bad one ). It started crackling again, so I replaced all 4 tubes. Silence is golden!

But tonight I was practicing and stopped for about 30 min leaving the amp on, and I heard a pop, and cracking immediately started. SO, it seems somthing is causing the tubes to go bad. I was hoping it was just a bad tube. Seems a little deeper.

Is there a problem leaving these idle for long periods of time? Can't imagine.

Any ideas? Thanks!


----------



## Ozark

May I suggest that you send it back for checks and repairs by a tech whether it is under warranty or not.


----------



## Treynor

What a great thread...yep, I've gone thru all 32 pages! I just joined this forum and introduced myself last night, and it was this thread that brought me here. I've been trying to learn all I can about the dsl5c since this one is on the way from a seller on Reverb.


----------



## AllanAnd

Treynor said:


> I just joined this forum and introduced myself last night, and it was this thread that brought me here. I've been trying to learn all I can about the dsl5c since this one is on the way from a seller on Reverb.



Welcome. I sort of share your experience - certain threads brought me here - this one i particular.

I have the exact same amp. You are going to love it!


----------



## TarNhaK

Treynor said:


> What a great thread...yep, I've gone thru all 32 pages! I just joined this forum and introduced myself last night, and it was this thread that brought me here. I've been trying to learn all I can about the dsl5c since this one is on the way from a seller on Reverb.
> 
> View attachment 40848
> View attachment 40850


Welcome nice version of the dsl5c


----------



## Antmax

It's a great little amp. In the 1 watt mode it manages to sound quite beefy with the deep button active. I've had mine a few weeks now and my small collection of modeling amps are all but redundant. I did put the DSL5c line out through the CODE 50 to try and get some idea what a 12" speaker mod might sound like. I just stick to the 1w 10" for practice at the moment.


----------



## Treynor

Antmax said:


> It's a great little amp. In the 1 watt mode it manages to sound quite beefy with the deep button active. I've had mine a few weeks now and my small collection of modeling amps are all but redundant. I did put the DSL5c line out through the CODE 50 to try and get some idea what a 12" speaker mod might sound like. I just stick to the 1w 10" for practice at the moment.


Cool! Looking forward to giving mine a try. I am getting a little nervous, though. I bought it on Reverb Saturday as soon as the seller accepted my offer, sent a message asking about shipping, and have heard nothing back from the seller yet. Guess I can be patient and see if he replies in the next few days.


----------



## Antmax

It was the Easter holiday weekend, hopefully you will hear something soon. If you haven't already, check their seller rating and feedback. Hopefully that will be good and put you at ease.


----------



## Ozark

Anyone uses an Ibanez Tube Screamer and/or Proco RAT with your DSL5C? Does these pedals sounds great with the Ultra gain channel of the DSL5C?

TS is an overdrive and the RAT is a distortion pedal. 

Apparently on the internet, lots of RAT pedals are used on clean amps or to drive clean channels. Thus why I am asking you fellas, on your experience on the Dsl5c? Does it sounds great on the Ultra gain channel?


----------



## Antmax

My overdrive pedal is basically a modified Tube screamer circuit with separate low and high knobs for a little more flexibility. It works very well with both classic and ultra gain channels. The ultra gain channel doesn't have as much low oomph! as the clean channel and can sound a bit brittle. Having the separate high and low tone controls on the tube overdrive really helps shape the tone to balance the two channels when switching between them.

I don't have a fuzz. I get all the variety I need with the amps channels and the OD pedal and a Reverb in the FX loop. I just need a delay for some more traditional tones.


----------



## baconjerky

Ozark said:


> Anyone uses an Ibanez Tube Screamer and/or Proco RAT with your DSL5C? Does these pedals sounds great with the Ultra gain channel of the DSL5C?
> 
> TS is an overdrive and the RAT is a distortion pedal.
> 
> Apparently on the internet, lots of RAT pedals are used on clean amps or to drive clean channels. Thus why I am asking you fellas, on your experience on the Dsl5c? Does it sounds great on the Ultra gain channel?


I've just about always ran a tubescreamer in front of my amps. My ears are conditioned at this point to require the low-cut mid-hump and compression it adds. The rat would give you a different type of distortion than what's on the DSL5 gain channel. I don't know if I'd use it as a boost. If you like your amps gain get a tubescreamer if not get a rat.


----------



## Ozark

baconjerky said:


> I've just about always ran a tubescreamer in front of my amps. My ears are conditioned at this point to require the low-cut mid-hump and compression it adds. The rat would give you a different type of distortion than what's on the DSL5 gain channel. I don't know if I'd use it as a boost. If you like your amps gain get a tubescreamer if not get a rat.



Thanks for your reply. Much appreciated. Am into rock, hard rock and a little metal that's all. I'd luv the gain channel on my Dsl5c. Think I'll get the tubescreamer to push the gain channel harder if need be.


----------



## Ozark

Antmax said:


> My overdrive pedal is basically a modified Tube screamer circuit with separate low and high knobs for a little more flexibility. It works very well with both classic and ultra gain channels. The ultra gain channel doesn't have as much low oomph! as the clean channel and can sound a bit brittle. Having the separate high and low tone controls on the tube overdrive really helps shape the tone to balance the two channels when switching between them.
> 
> I don't have a fuzz. I get all the variety I need with the amps channels and the OD pedal and a Reverb in the FX loop. I just need a delay for some more traditional tones.



Thanks for your reply. Much appreciated. Think I'll go with the tubescreamer after the compressor and In the FX loop an EQ & Delay.


----------



## Treynor

UPDATE: The seller replied last night! He had been on vacation, and will get the amp out this week.


----------



## TarNhaK

GuilliHo said:


> I have a quick question about this amp. I’m fairly new to tube amps, in fact this is my first tube amp ever. I’m more of a blues/rock player and I find this amp’s gain a bit too much. I was reading a book about tube amps and the author recommends to use 5751 tubes on V1 and V2 and 12AT7 on the phase inverter to even out the ration between preamp gain and power amp gain. I decided to try this idea so I ordered 2 5751 and 1 12AT7. Now my problem is that I don’t know the position of the tubes on the DSL5C. The book says that “usually”, the phase inverter is the tube that is closer to the power amp and V1 is the tube closer to the input jack. I just wanted to double check with you guys since you already know this amp inside out. I attached an image showing how I think it is. Can someone please confirm if this is correct or not? Thank you!



this is look nice , the amp work well with this tube ? you still have this config now or you change? if its low the volume is cool i play only at home


----------



## Antmax

TarNhaK said:


> this is look nice , the amp work well with this tube ? you still have this config now or you change? if its low the volume is cool i play only at home



I'm not 100% sure what you said. But if your wondering if the amp is quiet enough to play at home. In 1w mode it certainly is. I can play it at a volume where I can still hear the wife talking at me loudly from the next room  And I can hold a conversation and listen to her podcasts in the same room while I practice quietly. 

It's surprisingly good at low volumes. Quieter than my Code Modeling amp.


----------



## TarNhaK

Antmax said:


> I'm not 100% sure what you said. But if your wondering if the amp is quiet enough to play at home. In 1w mode it certainly is. I can play it at a volume where I can still hear the wife talking at me loudly from the next room  And I can hold a conversation and listen to her podcasts in the same room while I practice quietly.
> 
> It's surprisingly good at low volumes. Quieter than my Code Modeling amp.


sorry im french, i talk about his tube setting.
me i put the 12at7 in v2 for lowering the gain for the clean chanel


----------



## drinkbeerbefree

TarNhaK said:


> sorry im french, i talk about his tube setting.
> me i put the 12at7 in v2 for lowering the gain for the clean chanel


Hi, i have a 5751 in v1 and that is the biggest factor in calming down the gain level. I have no 12at7 but a 12au7a in v2. That 12au7a tames the amp further. Ideal for bedroom compatible volumes (dont get me wrong its still loud enough for the cats to reach for some fresh air) but not the right thing if you are aiming for clean headroom for small gigs or something like that. The amp is somewhat clean until 5-6 in classic crunch and sounds realy angry at 10. The ultra gain channel is nicely controlable i would say. Before the 12au7a i tried a 12ay7 in v2, but that sounded somehow boring, like a blanket over the speaker.

Edit: Sorry I got kind of confused with the original post and the question afterwards. If this post does not make any sense, just ignore it. Rock on!


----------



## Treynor

Finally received my DSL5C yesterday. Played it awhile last night and so far, so good. The previous owner said it only had about 1 hour playing time on it, so the speaker/tubes definitely need some more break-in. The EQ controls are very interesting in that the mid also has a huge impact on the highs. As has been discussed frequently in this thread, the treble needs to be at 2 or below for my tastes. But bringing the mid down to 2 still seems to give me plenty of what I want in that mid frequency range, but really tames the highs and allows me more room to tweak the treble EQ.

I am going to try it through my Egnater Rebel 1 x 12 cab today, which is loaded with a WGS ET-90. The 5C is a very loud 5 watts already...should sound huge through that external cab with it's very efficient speaker!


----------



## drinkbeerbefree

It suits the furniture, very nice.


----------



## AllanAnd

D'oh! Aften two months my DSL has started behaving badly. When I play loudish on low notes (normal E chord) it makes an unpleasant noise kind of like a cardboard rattle.

I will take it to the store tomorrow but I dread the thought of it being sent to Marshall while I just wait.... :-(

I have tried touching wherever I could without opening it up but I just can't put my fingers on anything that is loose or ratling...


----------



## Treynor

This morning I did a little tube rolling with my 5C. I am happy with the way the stock speaker (Celestion Ten 30) is breaking in, and will most likely stick with it...particularly since I already have a 1 x 12 external cab for an easy speaker "change" if want. But I was itching to see how some different preamp tubes would sound.

I had two JJ EC83s, one Mullard 12AX7 and one Tung-Sol 12AX7 on hand. I played around for about an hour trying these across the V1, V2 and PI positions. For now, I have a JJ in V1, the Mullard in V2 and a JJ in the PI. The Mullard in the V2 position rounds out everything nicely and just sounds more musical. The Tung-Sol in V1 made the lead channel a little more aggressive and was probably the best of the lot for that channel. But it seemed a little too grainy for my taste on the classic channel.

So for now I am very happy with the sound of this amp...although at some point I might try switching the stock Marsall-branded 12BH7 power tube for a TAD to see if there are any changes.


----------



## Roudan

Hi Guys

I am debating between this one and DSL1 for pure bedroom use. Which one would the better ? Thx


----------



## Antmax

Roudan said:


> Hi Guys
> 
> I am debating between this one and DSL1 for pure bedroom use. Which one would the better ? Thx



Probably the DSL1 if you have the $ and a cab to plug it in to. It has more flexibility 8 ohm and 16 ohm speaker out where the DSL5 has only 16.

It has seperate volume and gain in classic gain channel. Everything else is similar.

DSL5c is excellent if you want a combo with integrated speaker. I upgraded the internal speaker to 1x12 which adds some lows and palm mute thunk. The thunk doesn't really happen with the stock 1x10 but the deep switch does still give it a fair bit of bass.


----------



## TarNhaK

Roudan said:


> Hi Guys
> 
> I am debating between this one and DSL1 for pure bedroom use. Which one would the better ? Thx



The DSL5c have a headphone plug it's cool for night play


----------



## Ozark

Roudan said:


> Hi Guys
> 
> I am debating between this one and DSL1 for pure bedroom use. Which one would the better ? Thx



Am using my DSL5C in my bedroom on 1w mode on headphone most of the time. Even on 1w, it's pretty loud too. The little diff here is that, you are able to play along with the MP3s songs you have ONLY on headphones in the 1w mode. That's great if you are playing with guitar backing tracks.


----------



## Antmax

The DSL5c is quieter than my Marshall code. The codes knobs don't really work below 1 and at 1 they are louder than TV volume. The DSL5c is about the same volume at 3 when in the 1 watt mode. 1watt mode is actually about 0.5w

I can play the 5c at conversation level and talk to my wife without raising my voice and she can still listen to podcasts when I'm playing quietly.

I don't use headphones and am really pleased with how quiet it is. I do have an OD pedal to get higher gain sounds at the lower volumes though.


----------



## Ozark

Antmax said:


> The DSL5c is quieter than my Marshall code. The codes knobs don't really work below 1 and at 1 they are louder than TV volume. The DSL5c is about the same volume at 3 when in the 1 watt mode. 1watt mode is actually about 0.5w
> 
> I can play the 5c at conversation level and talk to my wife without raising my voice and she can still listen to podcasts when I'm playing quietly.
> 
> I don't use headphones and am really pleased with how quiet it is. I do have an OD pedal to get higher gain sounds at the lower volumes though.



At times, I do play my 5c at conversation level too and it sounds great. BTW, which OD pedal you
are using with your 5c? Am thinking of getting the Ibanez TS Mini.


----------



## deanproxy

Has anyone managed to fix the channel switch popping issue? I've read replacing a particular Cap but I have yet to figure out what or where to dig into the amp to fix it. It's really loud...


----------



## Antmax

Ozark said:


> At times, I do play my 5c at conversation level too and it sounds great. BTW, which OD pedal you
> are using with your 5c? Am thinking of getting the Ibanez TS Mini.



I have a Hardwire CM-2 Tube overdrive. It's basically a upmarket version of the BadMonkey. Based on the tube screamer only with both high and low EQ knobs. Transparent with a lot of flexibility.



It's the same as the DIGITECH one in the above video, only with HARDWIRE written on the footswitch insead.




deanproxy said:


> Has anyone managed to fix the channel switch popping issue? I've read replacing a particular Cap but I have yet to figure out what or where to dig into the amp to fix it. It's really loud...



Mine doesn't make any noise when channel switching other than the mechanical noise of the switch itself. Nothing comes through the speaker.


----------



## Ozark

Thanks Antmax, will check the Digitech HardWire out. Think it'll cost a little more.

As for deanproxy post on channel switching noise, I do not have this problem except for the mechanical noise on the Marshall foot switch.


----------



## Treynor

As much as like my 5C with the tube replacement I did, the tweaker in me still seeks the best tone possible. So I ordered a 10" Greenback from Sweetwater and it should be here this week. I know many who have contributed to this thread have gone that route. I'll get my feedback up here once I get it installed.


----------



## stickylovefingers

Here is mine.


----------



## Antmax

Treynor said:


> As much as like my 5C with the tube replacement I did, the tweaker in me still seeks the best tone possible. So I ordered a 10" Greenback from Sweetwater and it should be here this week. I know many who have contributed to this thread have gone that route. I'll get my feedback up here once I get it installed.



I know what you mean. I was happy with mine but the $80 for a speaker upgrade wasn't a lot and made it a lot more versatile with the extra tone adjustment at the bottom end.

Before the speaker upgrade I would still miss my Code 50 for the bigger punchier tones. Haven't touched the CODE since I changed speakers.


----------



## assaf110

Treynor said:


> As much as like my 5C with the tube replacement I did, the tweaker in me still seeks the best tone possible. So I ordered a 10" Greenback from Sweetwater and it should be here this week. I know many who have contributed to this thread have gone that route. I'll get my feedback up here once I get it installed.


----------



## Treynor

assaf110 said:


> View attachment 41599


Nice! And your take on the difference?


----------



## Antmax

assaf110 said:


> View attachment 41599



Wow, I forgot how small the 10" was and the greenback is positively beefy compared to the stock one.

Here's my 12" crammed into the DSL5c



> It Barely fits around the tubes and back grill.


----------



## assaf110

well, there is definitely a change (and for the better), at the time i made the swap both speakers were new so it's hard to figure out what a broken in speaker swap will give you.
but it's less of an ice pick (which the original one sounded like) and more pleasant low end & mids. I do play at bedroom levels, so your mileage might be different.


----------



## skarmajunga

Hi all
New guy here, just picked up a DSL5C today, only had a short while to play with it but so far pretty happy. I did notice though that the ultra gain channel does not like the wah wah, tried both my Xotic and Dunlop and both sounded terrible. 

The classic gain channel however sounded great and handled my wah and fuzz wonderfully


----------



## Treynor

Welcome, skarmajunga.


----------



## Wolvieberzerker

Had mine for about a week now. Really like it. Gonna do a speaker swap eventually. Can't decide between a 10" greenback or a 12" v30.


----------



## Ozark

skarmajunga said:


> Hi all
> New guy here, just picked up a DSL5C today, only had a short while to play with it but so far pretty happy. I did notice though that the ultra gain channel does not like the wah wah, tried both my Xotic and Dunlop and both sounded terrible.
> 
> The classic gain channel however sounded great and handled my wah and fuzz wonderfully



Welcome skarmajunga.
Am considering adding a Wah Wah in my rig some time later and am glad that you
mentioned about the soundings on the Ultra Gain channel is terrible. Maybe you need time to get them sounding good? Keep us posted if you are able to find good sounds using them?

Maybe DSL5C users here can help?


----------



## Marshy

Hmm, the only reason I could think that the Wah might sound bad is if it was put through the FX loop.


----------



## skarmajunga

I did not try the fx loop, just ran it in front


----------



## Micky

The Ultra Channel has a tremendous amount of gain. I can see where a wah might not sound good. Unless of course you are after some Alice In Chains type of weird effect...

While I am not a big fan of wahs, I have used a 'cocked wah' on a gain channel in the past as a bandwidth-limiting type of effect.


----------



## skarmajunga

Hmm Makes sense, just too much gain for that channel


Micky said:


> The Ultra Channel has a tremendous amount of gain. I can see where a wah might not sound good. Unless of course you are after some Alice In Chains type of weird effect...
> 
> While I am not a big fan of wahs, I have used a 'cocked wah' on a gain channel in the past as a bandwidth-limiting type of effect.


----------



## Micky

skarmajunga said:


> Hmm Makes sense, just too much gain for that channel


Sounds great on the Classic Channel I bet!


----------



## skarmajunga

Micky said:


> Sounds great on the Classic Channel I bet!



Oh yea


----------



## Treynor

Received my Greenback today. It had been on Sweetwater back order for awhile, so I cancelled there and got this from Mojo Tone...at $10 cheaper. Installed very easily...about a 15 minute job. So far...I like it. A marked improvement over the stock speaker even before it's broken in.


----------



## Ozark

Treynor said:


> Received my Greenback today. It had been on Sweetwater back order for awhile, so I cancelled there and got this from Mojo Tone...at $10 cheaper. Installed very easily...about a 15 minute job. So far...I like it. A marked improvement over the stock speaker even before it's broken in.
> 
> View attachment 41746



Enjoy your new sounding amp!


----------



## AllanAnd

AllanAnd said:


> D'oh! Aften two months my DSL has started behaving badly. When I play loudish on low notes (normal E chord) it makes an unpleasant noise kind of like a cardboard rattle.



Just a small update regarding my own post from May 1st. I made a deal with the store (where i happen to work occasionally) that I could open it up and try a couple of things without voiding warranty. I did... Thought I'd found the problem - som kind of transformer-thingy (the one seen left in the picture in post #669) seemed loose and able to make a rattle... Put washers under it and tightened the screws... Thought everything was cool...

Alas - it wasn't and now the annoying sound seems to have evolved into a more metallic rattling. So now I took it to the store and await further news from my tech colleage... I love that amp and the look and sound of it (CCW) so I sure hope someone can get it back to working like it's supposed to!

I'd hate to have to go looking for something else!


----------



## treetrunk

After owning and playing stellar Marshall amps including the JVM410H, AFD and the YJM, I still went in for one of these. I guess too much love for Marshall got the better of me. I wanted it for low volume use at home
My DSL5c landed yesterday, and honestly I'm not too impressed by it.
- There is a popping sound whenever I switch from the Gain to Clean channel on the amp! ONLY. No other strange sounds than a soft hiss which is ever present even at zero volumes on both channels.
- The gain is OK for rhythm playing not that high for shredding and solos (e.g malmsteen solos)
- The amp is still too loud even at low power and low volumes (kind-of hard to describe, say with volume on 3/10, it's as loud as a TV at full), not bedroom use levels at all

Is this expected on the DSL5c, or is this a faulty piece I ended up with? I'd be surprised if the popping sound is normal!


----------



## Antmax

No popping sound when switching channels here. And it plays quieter than my code 50.

If you want high gain at low volume like 2. You have to use an OD pedal. I play clean through early 90s just fine with it. Not really into modern ultra high gain though.

5c ultra gain channel is a lot tamer than the 15 snd 40. Most people approve. People typically change the speaker fir a more fuller sound with deeper lows and a warmer less shrill sound.


----------



## Ozark

Mine 5C does not have any poping sound when switching between both channels.

The other alternative is to use headphone with it.


----------



## Deemic

Hi Micky,

Can you elaborate on which one is the test point for bias measurement?
I'm used to working on boards that are labeled as such.... tp1, tp2, etc...




Micky said:


> Well, from the looks of the schematic, you can set the bias on this amp.
> Apparently if you get a 12BH7/ECC99 that is unbalanced for whatever reason, you can use a single trimpot to even things out. I would imagine because you cant set each side individually as you would with 2 trimpots, you need to equalize both sides.
> 
> Here is a shot of the trimpot:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here is a shot of the bias test point:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will have to check this next time I have the chassis out...


----------



## JAC

I don't have a popping problem but my headphones distort after slight use. They distort with or without using effects also.


----------



## Micky

JAC said:


> I don't have a popping problem but my headphones distort after slight use. They distort with or without using effects also.


Have you tried a different set of headphones?


----------



## Micky

JAC said:


> I don't have a popping problem but my headphones distort after slight use. They distort with or without using effects also.


It is the only 3-pin header available. I can't remember what it is labeled... CN9 I believe


----------



## JAC

Micky said:


> Have you tried a different set of headphones?



It does it with all the sets I have used. The current ones are AKG. It distorts with Senheisers also. It distorts with Marshall headphones as well. I'm not using cheap headphones. They don't distort with other headphone amps like Micro Terror and Lil' Night Train.


----------



## TarNhaK

JAC said:


> It does it with all the sets I have used. The current ones are AKG. It distorts with Senheisers also. It distorts with Marshall headphones as well. I'm not using cheap headphones. They don't distort with other headphone amps like Micro Terror and Lil' Night Train.


my dsl5c not distorts with headphones and i use headphones 90% of the time , maybe your amp have a bug


----------



## JAC

TarNhaK said:


> my dsl5c not distorts with headphones and i use headphones 90% of the time , maybe your amp have a bug



It only distorts with the headphones so the bug is isolated. I was told by GC that they had similar complaints to mine. I may contact Marshall on facebook again. That is the only way they seem to respond. I guess they don't want a bad rep on facebook.


----------



## TarNhaK

JAC said:


> It only distorts with the headphones so the bug is isolated. I was told by GC that they had similar complaints to mine. I may contact Marshall on facebook again. That is the only way they seem to respond. I guess they don't want a bad rep on facebook.


maybe you and your GC have a bad batch , because mine have no distorts at all


----------



## Micky

Does it distort all the time? Or only after it heats up?
Have you tried it with headphones only or with an mp3 source as well?


----------



## JAC

Micky said:


> Does it distort all the time? Or only after it heats up?
> Have you tried it with headphones only or with an mp3 source as well?



It only distorts through the headphones. The amp itself through the cab speaker sounds fine. I like these amps. I'm not putting it down, I'm just sharing the issue I have with it.


----------



## JAC

TarNhaK said:


> maybe you and your GC have a bad batch , because mine have no distorts at all




There were no batches they had to order it for me. I had to wait about a week.


----------



## Mikeyjhn

I have recently bought a MDSL5C put in a G10 greenback and am really enjoying it. Can anyone give me advice on preamp tubes? I have a jj83s, jj5751, preferred series 7025, mesa str 12ax7, EH 12ax7 and wondered which were best to use and in what order. I would be very grateful if anyone could let me know exactly which tube deals with gain for classic gain and ultra gain and phase inverter. Many many years ago owned a 30th anniversary combo and foolishly sold it but am loving being back with Marshall. Thank you!


----------



## Deemic

Hi guys, 
I've had the DSL5c for about 6 months now. 
I've upgraded the speaker to a Celestion Gold G10 and the tubes to JJ's.
Overall, I'm happy with the performance and general sound, but I'm very much missing the bottom end and fuller overall sound of a 12" speaker, and at times have wished for more significantly more volume.
I'm on the fence about my next move and could use some advice. (Mickey, if your watching I'd really appreciate your thoughts)

Do I pull the 10" inch and make the mods to install a 12", knowing that I will want that same Celestion Gold (well over $200)
Or am I better off selling the DSL5c and bumping up to the DSL40c?
If I could keep both I would, but sadly it's not an option.

Is there a significant performance increase with the 40c?
Can you still get great tone with the 40c without driving the power tubes hard?
Are there any other pro's aside from volume increase to going with the 40c?
Are there tonal differences between the EL84's and the ECC99 ?
I know the 5c doesn't have enough volume to play live at other than the very smallest hole in the wall pubs. But does the 40c have enough "oomph" to play live unmiked at modest venues? (up to "capacity 75" type bars)

Thanks in advance. Any insight is appreciated!


----------



## drinkbeerbefree

The DSL40 had a nice pricedrop in the last few weeks. I think because it is going out of production. And if you want significantly more volume, then the bigger brother would do the job.


----------



## Atlas82

drinkbeerbefree said:


> The DSL40 had a nice pricedrop in the last few weeks. I think because it is going out of production. And if you want significantly more volume, then the bigger brother would do the job.




The DSL40C is not going out of production. Marshall has denied this false rumor some days ago.


----------



## BanditPanda

Deemic said:


> Hi guys,
> I've had the DSL5c for about 6 months now.
> I've upgraded the speaker to a Celestion Gold G10 and the tubes to JJ's.
> Overall, I'm happy with the performance and general sound, but I'm very much missing the bottom end and fuller overall sound of a 12" speaker, and at times have wished for more significantly more volume.
> I'm on the fence about my next move and could use some advice. (Mickey, if your watching I'd really appreciate your thoughts)
> 
> Do I pull the 10" inch and make the mods to install a 12", knowing that I will want that same Celestion Gold (well over $200)
> Or am I better off selling the DSL5c and bumping up to the DSL40c?
> If I could keep both I would, but sadly it's not an option.
> 
> Is there a significant performance increase with the 40c?
> Can you still get great tone with the 40c without driving the power tubes hard?
> Are there any other pro's aside from volume increase to going with the 40c?
> Are there tonal differences between the EL84's and the ECC99 ?
> I know the 5c doesn't have enough volume to play live at other than the very smallest hole in the wall pubs. But does the 40c have enough "oomph" to play live unmiked at modest venues? (up to "capacity 75" type bars)
> 
> Thanks in advance. Any insight is appreciated!



Yo Deemic... I know Micky has made that 12" conversion to his DSL5c and apparently is very happy with it.
Keep in mind I do not own & have never played thru that amp however I do own the DSL40C
and there are 2 of your questions I can answer.
1.Can you still get great tone with the 40c without driving the power tubes hard.
A. Yes. The DSL40C sounds really good even at low volumes at 20W level.
2. But does the 40c have enough "oomph" to play live unmiked at modest venues? (up to "capacity 75" type bars)
A. Without question yes. It is a Marshall after all and running at 40W you can play anywhere.
BP


----------



## Micky

I have been meaning to reply here, but seemingly I forgot...

These are 2 very different amps. Each certainly has it's place but to consider one over the other you need to take several factors into consideration. Kind of an apples and oranges thing, but mainly it hinges on your desire to tinker with things.

The 12" speaker makes a huge difference over the 10". No matter WHAT 12" you put in there, it will sound huge compared to the 10". Don't get me wrong, the 10" speakers I tried all had very good accuracy (not really scooped) and tended to flub out when pushed with a lot of bass. That being said, they all cut thru the mix well, and you could tell it was a Marshall... A 12" will just enhance everything, and even so, it is very dependent on the guitar/pickups as well.

One thing to consider on the other (amplifier) end of things, the DSL5c has no Gain control on the Classic Channel, only Volume. (plus all the EQ of course) This is different from the DSL40c, which has a Gain control as well on the Classic Channel. The Ultra Channel has both Gain as well as Volume. For me, the DSL5c Classic Channel has only a fraction of the clean headroom of the DSL40c. As soon as you are up past 5 on the volume it is breaking up nicely, but a gain control might let me turn it up all the way with very little gain in order to get the clean volume I would like.

Boosting the Classic Channel with a clean boost can help a bit, but only a bit. Both amps take pedals well, in thru the front as well as in the loop. There is no FX switch so the loop is engaged when something is plugged into it.

Much to peoples surprise, the DSL5c is loud enough for a small venue. Using an external speaker will help. I didn't believe it until I tried it, but if clean volume is what you need or is what you are after, the DSL5c falls short. Up past 5 on the Classic Channel and you are definitely into crunch territory.

Again, these are only MY observations. The only way to tell definitively is to try it yourself. Like I said, tinker a bit...


----------



## JAC

Like Micky wrote Classic channel with a boost can help a bit. Depending on the boost, it can sound really excellent. I find that even with the stock 10" it comes with. 12" speaker will sound huge.


----------



## assaf110

Deemic said:


> Hi guys,
> I've had the DSL5c for about 6 months now.
> I've upgraded the speaker to a Celestion Gold G10 and the tubes to JJ's.
> Overall, I'm happy with the performance and general sound, but I'm very much missing the bottom end and fuller overall sound of a 12" speaker, and at times have wished for more significantly more volume.
> I'm on the fence about my next move and could use some advice. (Mickey, if your watching I'd really appreciate your thoughts)
> 
> Do I pull the 10" inch and make the mods to install a 12", knowing that I will want that same Celestion Gold (well over $200)
> Or am I better off selling the DSL5c and bumping up to the DSL40c?
> If I could keep both I would, but sadly it's not an option.
> 
> Is there a significant performance increase with the 40c?
> Can you still get great tone with the 40c without driving the power tubes hard?
> Are there any other pro's aside from volume increase to going with the 40c?
> Are there tonal differences between the EL84's and the ECC99 ?
> I know the 5c doesn't have enough volume to play live at other than the very smallest hole in the wall pubs. But does the 40c have enough "oomph" to play live unmiked at modest venues? (up to "capacity 75" type bars)
> 
> Thanks in advance. Any insight is appreciated!



I was in the same boat, had the DSL5c, upgraded to a 10" inch greenback. had the same dilemma for the next move - 12" inch upgrade or DSL40c. I went with the 40 (changed speaker for a creamback), and i am extremely happy. 
No problem to get excellent tones even at low volumes, the clean channel gain knob is priceless. I find it better in any aspect.
The only con i see, is significant increase in weight and size, the DSL5c is ultra portable.


----------



## Gohevy

I installed an Avatar Hellatone 60 (Celestion V30) in my DSL5C this past weekend. I cut the baffle to open it up to the full 12 inch opening but left a bit of material on the top and bottom to allow some strength. I did cut all the way through the bottom of the cabinet because I could not find a placement that would allow the speaker to fit without touching the tubes. The speaker is mounted to the far left in the cab(from front point of view) with about 1/4 inch clearance from the side. I used t-nuts to secure the speaker and it’s solid. 
The tone is a MAJOR improvement and I also found that I had to retard the gain on the ultra channel waaay down from my original setting with the 10 inch. And I have noticed now that the tone controls actually make a difference when rolling through the range. 
Overall I feel the mod has exceeded my expectations and I am very very pleased with the results. 
I’d like to thank the contributors of this thread as the details herein were a great help. I’ve been chasing a tone which I could not achieve without this mod and now I can focus on playing rather than my rig. Thanks!


----------



## youngolekole

Just purchased one of these little fellas on ebay for a great price and I am really excited! Thinking about going with a WGS 10" Green Beret - anyone else give this speaker a chance in this amp?


----------



## Micky

I found a 12" Green Beret this morning in my stash and I am planning on swapping it for the Vet30 I have installed.


----------



## youngolekole

Micky said:


> I found a 12" Green Beret this morning in my stash and I am planning on swapping it for the Vet30 I have installed.


Nice...let us know what you think if you swap it out for the green beret!


----------



## Micky

Got the GB installed this morning, and I have to tell you, not a lot of difference between that and the Vet30 I already had installed. Maybe it distorts a little better when maxing out the Classic Channel, but you gotta remember, there is no gain control on that channel and it is more like a plexi-crunch than anything else. Could easily drive it into flubbiness with the bass up too much, but I found I needed both the Deep switch as well as the Tone Shift on in order to tame the twang of the Telecaster.

The Ultra channel differences were even harder to discern, as I could not A/B them as I had wished. Sounded strikingly similar to the Vet30 (same as Celestion V30) with plenty of highs, but not ice-pickey. I think this is the perfect combination for this amp, a nice true 25W speaker in a 5W tube amp.


----------



## Saniell

This is an awesome thread, I've read everything . I just got the amp yesterday, has Marshall labeled valves inside. It is my first valve amp, don't have much experience with them so I won't do any mods (I'm happy with it as is). Maybe I'll just get a 1x12 cab, Thomann has dirt cheap Harley Benton cabs with Vintage 30 speakers.


----------



## Micky

As long as you get a 16-ohm cab you can run them both together.


----------



## Elliot Twist

I'm running the stock speaker along with a Marshall MX112 1X12 extension cab that I loaded with a 16 ohm V30.
I built a resistance box that adds an 8 ohm load in series to the two speakers on the full load. Final total back to 16 Ohms.
Hey, what do you all think of the new DSL5C ? Marshall updated and upgraded the whole 2018 DSL series.
The 2018 DSL5C now has a gain knob on the Classic Gain channel and reverb now.
The EQ voicing on the whole 2018 series has been changed. Supposed to be not so "shrill".


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## Micky

Apparently the 5c is now a single-ended EL84 design (9-pin) instead of the push-pull 12BH7. Addition of the gain control is sorely needed on the Classic channel, it was the one single thing that I hate on the original model.

It is probably STILL way too loud...


----------



## slagg

ecc99 tube,not el84.still uses a weirdo tube as a power tube.


----------



## Micky

slagg said:


> ecc99 tube,not el84.still uses a weirdo tube as a power tube.


My bad I was thinking about the Origin 5W combo...


----------



## Marcell

I had one.. but sold it. It's great for using only the amp. With pedals in use I didn't like it. Classic channel breaks up to early and gives to much gain. I tried a 12at7 in the preamp section, that improved a little bit but when you want full volume it's bad.


----------



## DannyB

Wow! 36 pages took a bit to read it all, but I got’er done! 

I like the 5C. I put a set of Ruby 12ax7ac7 hg pluses in it along with a Greenback 10 and it’s a great bedroom practice amp. The upgrades gave it more life. The hg pluses seem to really make it quiet when cranked.

I put a 100db Celestion Gold in it first, but that proved to be too loud for the volume I want. The Greenback did the trick for me. Anyone need a Gold?

Like most others, I wish it had more head room on the classic channel. I’ll chase that later. I don’t think it worth selling and buying the new model. For now, I use it as designed, for practice. And I’m not cooking $250 worth of tubes like I do when I fire up the HJS.

All in all, I believe we have chosen a mighty fine practice amp!


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## Antmax

I really like mine. I have had three modeling amps but none of them are as simple to use and easy to get a diverse range of tones. I have a OD pedal with seperate low and high knobs, Reverb and Delay in the loop. Seems to be all I need for at home. 

Classic is ok clean for practice. Super gain is great with volume at 12 and only a little gain. Very easy to dial something in, I have a Veteran 30 12" in mine which was night and day to the original 10 30 speaker that sounded really shrill.


----------



## Elliot Twist

I really liked my DSL5C a lot, but I sold my DSL5C version 1, and bought the new DSL20CR. Every tiny shortfall or disappointment I had with my DSL5C is solved with the DSL20CR.


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## DannyB

Let’s see If there’s any life left in the 5C thread.




I almost messed up!

As I tinker with my TSL 100, I put the 5C on the market, figuring I’d just buy a newer one later, if the desire hit me. I pulled it off the market, put the Greenback back in and told the little girl I was sorry, to never again make such considerations.

As we now know, the 5CR is hybrid. That is a change some won’t mind at all. Personally, I say, ”No thank you.”


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## DannyB

I’d like to see a tube rectifier mod. There’s plenty of room. That’ll add some Bluesbreaker/early plexi sag to the classic channel.


----------



## Micky

Can anyone post gut shots of the new 5c?
I'd like to see this 'hybrid' thing...


----------



## DannyB

I had an HT20 once. I sent it back after about 3 weeks. That’s when I bought the Mesa 5:50Plus.  2013 I think. 2014 I think, I bought a HT-5. I sent it back also.

I kept the Mesa until I bought the HJS last fall..

It’s not like I haven’t tried them. I’m not knocking them. They are perfect for some folks. It’s just me. I just can’t cozy up to them.

YMMV!


----------



## JAC

Marcell said:


> I had one.. but sold it. It's great for using only the amp. With pedals in use I didn't like it. Classic channel breaks up to early and gives to much gain. I tried a 12at7 in the preamp section, that improved a little bit but when you want full volume it's bad.



I like the way the Bogner La Grange sounds through my DSL5C. The boost by itself alone sounds excellent. The only problem I have with the amp is the damn headphones distort. I took it in to some place Marshall had me take it to and it still is messed up. I hope Marshall is reading this.


----------



## Antmax

I've been mostly playing my DSL5c at TV volume in 1w mode where the noisefloor is pretty quiet. But lately I've been wanting to try some recording which requires 5w line out or a mic. 

In 5w mode there is a pretty loud hiss which brings the noisefloor up about 4-5x the level of 1w mode. Is this normal?

Coming from modeling amps, this is my first tube amp. I'm not sure, it just seems a bit much. I'd have to crank it pretty loud to make the signal to noise ratio so that the hiss isn't as noticeable.

BTW the hiss is there even with the volume off and with the volume off, it's the same in both clean and ultra gain channel. Same whether something is plugged into the FX loop or input jack. No groundloop 60hz buzz or anything, just a white noise hiss.

Thought I'd ask before I start buying tubes and probing solder connections.


----------



## Micky

How do you hear the hiss? Thru the headphone jack? Or the speaker?


----------



## Antmax

Micky said:


> How do you hear the hiss? Thru the headphone jack? Or the speaker?



I'm mostly talking about the speaker since the hiss is very audible even on the clean channel when using 5w mode. Loud enough that it puts me off of trying to record.

In the clean channel. The hiss through the speaker with volume on 2 in 5w mode is about the same as volume on 10 in 1w mode.

It just seems uncomfortably loud. I'd have someone look at it but taxes are just around the corner. So I was just wondering if barely audible hiss in 1w mode but a pretty loud hiss in 5w mode was normal.

I normally play 1w mode with volumes between 2 and 3 in clean. Ultra I keep at 5 (12 o'clock) with gain between 1 and 3 and the hiss is almost nothing. It's only when I switch to 5w that it seems excessive. Kind of like the TV lost reception and is still blaring white noise at about 50% volume.

For all I know this might be normal. I'm coming from modeling amps, so I don't know. Loved the amp till I started thinking about recording. From my settings you can probably tell I don't play beyond bedroom level.


----------



## assaf110

Antmax said:


> So I was just wondering if barely audible hiss in 1w mode but a pretty loud hiss in 5w mode was normal.



Mine was the same. My DSL40c is quieter.


----------



## DannyB

May be this will help?

Before “mod”


After “mod.”



Simple wire routing.


----------



## Antmax

Thanks guys, I'm thinking it's probably normal and I might try lower gain tubes with more headroom to reduce the hiss.

@DannyB I already tried the FX Loop wiring and it did help a lot with a AC groundloop type buzz which was audible even in 1w mode. In my case the original wiring was different to both, the FX loop grey harness was actually zip tied to a couple of other straggler color wires. Not the AC but still enough to add a lot of noise. That got rid of the buzz but not the hiss.

I'll probably buy a small selection of different tubes after taxes and swap them around. Assuming it's a preamp tube. The 5c has more gain than I actually need and if something else is quieter then that would be cool


----------



## DannyB

@Antmax 

TungSol, Mullard CV4004 12AX7 short plates and Genelex Gold Lions are available in low gain at Doug’s Tubes.

I’m going to order a couple next week. If you like these, may be I saved you some search time.


----------



## Antmax

DannyB said:


> @Antmax
> 
> TungSol, Mullard CV4004 12AX7 short plates and Genelex Gold Lions are available in low gain at Doug’s Tubes.
> 
> I’m going to order a couple next week. If you like these, may be I saved you some search time.



Sounds like a plan, Cheers!






P.S. Looked over my practice records, I've done over 1000 hours on the stock tubes in the last 18 months. So it probably is just old worn tubes


----------



## DannyB

Antmax said:


> Sounds like a plan, Cheers!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. Looked over my practice records, I've done over 1000 hours on the stock tubes in the last 18 months. So it probably is just old worn tubes



You’re a new hero for me. You log your practice!


----------



## DannyB

You should start a thread and teach us that don’t!


----------



## Marshy

Antmax said:


> I've been mostly playing my DSL5c at TV volume in 1w mode where the noisefloor is pretty quiet. But lately I've been wanting to try some recording which requires 5w line out or a mic.
> 
> In 5w mode there is a pretty loud hiss which brings the noisefloor up about 4-5x the level of 1w mode. Is this normal?
> 
> Coming from modeling amps, this is my first tube amp. I'm not sure, it just seems a bit much. I'd have to crank it pretty loud to make the signal to noise ratio so that the hiss isn't as noticeable.
> 
> BTW the hiss is there even with the volume off and with the volume off, it's the same in both clean and ultra gain channel. Same whether something is plugged into the FX loop or input jack. No groundloop 60hz buzz or anything, just a white noise hiss.
> 
> Thought I'd ask before I start buying tubes and probing solder connections.



I had a very similar problem to yours with the white noise/hiss. I could never get it sorted. I did have a theory though.

One of the reasons I actually bought the DSL5c was to get an amp with a lower noise floor than what I currently had(VS100) for doing some recording. When I was testing the amp in a music shop (in a Isolation booth) one of the first things I wanted to see was how quiet it was. I was pretty pleased, it did not seem to be noisy at all. 

With this knowledge I went ahead and ordered the amp through another guitar shop. However, when this DSL arrived I discovered this white noise hiss problem. I subsequently went through the whole return to Marshall and wait 3 months BS to get a replacement....which sounded the same...same hiss. I went back to the original shop where I first checked the amp out (to verify I was not loosing my mind!) and it was fine (Ie quite)

Unfortunately the guy in the shop where I bought it from was beginning to think I was just talking rubbish and was convinced that this is just how this amp sounds. So I gave up and still have it. I mean, the amp is great and when you are jamming away you would not notice...however I am still convinced it is not normal, and the amp could potentially be more quiet.

I did to a bit of poking around inside to see if I could spot anything odd. The only thing I could find that seemed suspicious to me was a (what appears to be) *Microphonic Blue Box Capacitor (C27). *When you tap on it with plastic implement it behaves very much like a microphone, amplifying the taps clearly through the speaker. I have no idea if this behavior is normal, but with my limited electronics knowledge, I would guess not. The cap is directly above a Tube socket, so perhaps that has some thing to do with it...but there are many other of these type of caps dotted around the board (also near or over tube sockets) and they don't behave like this. 

The only real way to know if this is the cause of the prob would be to take apart another DSL5 or two and see how this cap behaves on them. 
The other option is to just replace the cap and see what happens. This is on my mind to do at some point, but other things keep taking my time so I have not got around to it yet. I also have since built a 4W Fender Tweed clone Kit which tbh is awesome and is ticking a lot of boxes for what i want from a Tube amp, so the DSL5 has been a bit neglected since. But i would like to get to the bottom of the Hiss problem at some point.

I have attached a pic showing the DSL5 PCB and (from what I can remember) is the Microphonic Box Cap (C27).

I would be very interested to hear from other DSl5 owners about how this cap is behaving in their amp.


----------



## Micky

C27 is a coupling cap between the cascaded gain stage of V2a & V2b.
It is a 22nf 400V polyester cap, it may be difficult to replace if the tube socked is soldered to the board on top of it. Tapping on it may vibrate the tube on top, check that first to insure that the tube is not microphonic before replacing the cap.

For what it is worth, my DSL5c is dead quiet on the Classic channel.
There is a bit of hiss on the Ultra channel. (to be expected)


----------



## Antmax

So, to adjust the bias on this thing. Do I just hook my multimeter up to the three prong interface, center and one side and adjust between 100 - 140mv range using the little trim pot?

I haven't tried it yet, need to get some hooked clamping probes for my multimeter first.


----------



## Micky

Antmax said:


> So, to adjust the bias on this thing. Do I just hook my multimeter up to the three prong interface, center and one side and adjust between 100 - 140mv range using the little trim pot?
> 
> I haven't tried it yet, need to get some hooked clamping probes for my multimeter first.


Are you speaking of the new DSL5cr?
If you are asking me about the bias for the new DSL5cr I cannot comment. Sorry.

It would be different if I had one in front of me. Until someone drops one off here, or sends me the schematic, I refuse to speculate. Again, sorry.

If you are speaking of the older (initial first run) DSL4c, then the bias info is on page 2 or 3 of this thread.


----------



## Antmax

Micky said:


> Are you speaking of the new DSL5cr?
> If you are asking me about the bias for the new DSL5cr I cannot comment. Sorry.
> 
> It would be different if I had one in front of me. Until someone drops one off here, or sends me the schematic, I refuse to speculate. Again, sorry.
> 
> If you are speaking of the older (initial first run) DSL4c, then the bias info is on page 2 or 3 of this thread.



I meant the original DSL5c, I figured the new DSL5cr version would get it's own thread eventually. I'll check out those pages, thanks


----------



## DannyB

I created a Word doc and copy/pasted the wise words of Micky’s on the 5C bias. I would suggest to anyone with a 5C to do the same. Actually, I used Pages, and shared the docto my iPad, iPhone and both Macs.


----------



## Micky

I believe the newer model only has a 2-pin test point... That's why I don't want to comment.

The original 5c uses a 10-ohm resistor so your millivolt reading will be 10X actual. It is important to measure the original tube so that you have a baseline comparison point.


----------



## DannyB

@Micky 

Thank you for all the info!


----------



## Antmax

DannyB said:


> I created a Word doc and copy/pasted the wise words of Micky’s on the 5C bias. I would suggest to anyone with a 5C to do the same. Actually, I used Pages, and shared the docto my iPad, iPhone and both Macs.



I will do the same and paste it in a separate doc. There is so much information in this thread, it's easy to get lost and confused if you just skim through it quickly.

I expect I'll be work it out. I'm mostly going to be looking at the preamp tubes, but wanted to learn about the biasing and how it's set up while I have the amp open. My wife said she wants to get me "a bunch of those light bulb things" for our anniversary


----------



## Micky

I am still impressed so many have gained so much info from this thread. There have been many other contributors, and their efforts are to be commended as well. I was reading thru the beginning, and it almost sounds like I am some sort of expert or something. I guarantee you, I am not.

Just a bunch of information all collected into one place. Sure it is big and unweildy, but if you think that is bad, then go read the DSL40c thread.


----------



## Antmax

I did some minor tube rolling and though I didn't get rid of the hiss exactly. I did get a more pleasant tone. I put a Mullard CV4004 reissue in my V1 moved the stock Marshall JJ to V2 and kept the chinese marshall in V3.

The Mullard is slightly less gain than the JJ but warmer and fuller and a little more vintage. A little of the highs seem to be reduced with the mullard smoothing the frequencies somewhat.

Overall I really like it but I think the Marshall VLVE-00055 12AX7B/ECC83 Shuguang No Selection White logo were a little more articulate and less dark than the JJ I moved to V2.

I also have a 12AT7 but I kind of felt that the Mullard already tamed the 5c enough. I didn't get around to trying it in the PI. I'm not even sure what effect the phase inverter has on the tone. Might try that later.

I didn't touch the 12bh7a yet. I'm not sure I have the TAD that Micky got stock. Mine has dark grey text I couldn't quite make out but it looks like photos of the Electro Harmonix 12BH7.

The hooked probes for my Multimeter turned up in the mail today. And one of my friends is bringing over a box of about a dozen assorted 12BH7A tubes I can have. Not sure if I should try em or just order the highly regarded 12BH7A-STR TAD.

Anyway, a nice improvement to the tone. Slightly more vintage but still quite a loud noise floor.

I am starting to think it's actually a large part down to my daisy chain power supply. The hiss is reduced quite a bit when all my pedals are removed, having the Line 6 G10 running isolated on a separate powerbank helped noticeably.


----------



## Antmax

I changed the Power Tube for a shiny new TAD Select and a JJ 5751 in the phase inverter. That seems to have knocked the noise floor back and the pedals don't make half the hiss that they used to. In fact I'd say that the hiss in 5w mode is now just slightly higher than the old 1w noise floor. I can put gain and volume up to 12 in 1w mode and it's not terrible ( well, unless I start adding gain stages in the pedals anyway).

I'm not sure what the old tube was. It looks pretty much the same as the 12BH7A-STR TAD I replaced it with. Probably is the same just picked out for higher quality. I had to dial up the bias a little with the new Power tube in and all is good.

Currently have 

V1 Mullard 12AX7 / CV4004
V2 Marshall Stock JJ in V2
V3 JJ 5751 in V3
V4 TAD 12BH7A-STR

It is a bit more mellow and vintage sounding. Gain is probably something like 20% less. Noise floor is lower. It might be slightly darker, probably the JJ's. I still have the Marshall chinese no select ones for backup. Might try swapping those with the Marshall JJ see if that brightens it up a tiny bit. Might get a Tung Sol or something to try in V2 for next time.

Now I have a pair of SD Seth Lovers to install in one of two guitars, Either my PRS Zach Myers or 70's Japanese Les Paul. I hate making these kinds of swap decisions lol. But the Seths will probably be nice in whichever guitar I choose.


----------



## Micky

What did you set the bias at?


----------



## Antmax

Micky said:


> What did you set the bias at?



110 based off of the 441 voltage reading I had when used on this calculator https://robrobinette.com/Tube_Bias_Calculator.htm

It said 11.1 was 70% and the resistor is 10 ohm, all the info online says 10x multiplier. So that's what I set it to for now. The original tube was reading 91.5 mv which is less than the average on the calculator. both sides were within .1 of each other.

Most people say to put Marshalls up to the 70% limit. I might dial it back a smidgen next time if that's risky?. I have to take the chassis out to change V2 or V3. And I'm thinking of trying something else in V2 soon.


----------



## Antmax

I dialed it back to 100 since the last time. It had some really nice grit in the crunchy tones at 110, but I had this niggling feeling that it was maybe running too hot. So it's bang slap in the middle between the old original factory power tube setting (91.5) and 110 now.

It's not as raunchy sounding, but I don't feel anxious that I might have over done it either.


----------



## MAD 69

The 5cr is still shrill, couldn't imagine the old 5c - wouldn't want any parts of that amp.


----------



## Antmax

MAD 69 said:


> The 5cr is still shrill, couldn't imagine the old 5c - wouldn't want any parts of that amp.


On the old 5c a 12" speaker upgrade and a lower 70% gain mullard 12ax7 CV4004 reissue in V1 fixed the shrillness for me.


----------



## Good one Phillip

Hey Folks, fairly new to the forum here, but thought you guys might like to see this 

I absolutely LOVE this amp but never liked the cheap 10inch speaker inside, really let it down. I would almost always run the amp through an external cab with some sort of 12 inch speaker/s inside.

After browsing this forum I saw all the people routing out the inside of the shell to fit a 12 inch speaker inside. I kinda went at it a different way...

I bought an old 1x12 Marshall combo shell on the cheap and simply mounted the DSL5C to the top. Nothing a drill and a ruler can't achieve. There was already a perfectly cut out 12 inch hole for a new speaker, no routing required. I installed a Celestion Vintage 30, and we all know how good a vintage 30 and a high gain Marshall amp sound together. 

Long story short, this thing now has some serious balls, the DSL5C's new home really unleashed it's potential, and you have the 1W mode for home/studio use AND 5W for Live shows. THIS THING IS AWESOME.


----------



## Antmax

Lucky to find an empty one. I actually looked at getting a custom prefab cabinet off of ebay. But then the DSL20H came out so I bought a used MX212a in anticipation of buying one of those. I still have my DSL5c, I really like it, it's the one with the country and western textured brown tolex.


----------



## Scottz

I just bought one of these and spent several hours going through this thread, so I have a question.

How well do Klon and Timmy type pedals work with this amp?


----------



## Micky

Distortion and OD pedals work great in the front of the amp, time-based stuff and EQ's work great in the loop.


----------



## Scottz

One more question, for the low power/full power switch, can anyone tell me what exactly it does electronically to the circuit?


----------



## Micky

The hi/lo power switch in the 5c is basically an attenuator in the speaker output circuitry.
It adds a bunch of resistance into the output to reduce the power output level.


----------



## Scottz

So an LPad? Sounds like it might be possible to mod it for different values.


----------



## Micky

Yes, it should be able to go lower than 1 watt easily.
With the schematic you should be able to calculate a balanced load based on what is already there...
https://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/attenuators/l-pad-attenuator.html


----------



## Moony

Edit: Problem solved


----------



## mad5066

So I sold my old dsl5 for the newer dsl5cr, I like the ultra channel much better. Can't tell the difference between the mosfet/phase inverter between the two, I A/Bd that before selling the older one on reverb. I upgraded my speaker to the 10" alnico gold celestion, awesome speaker but still itching to try the greenback too. The DSL5cr does everything I wanted the older dsl to do without having to do any mods or drastic tube choices to increase headroom. The green channel gives a lot more clean that sounds great but can also get a little grit with a boost and/or hotter pickups and the ultra has great saturation. The reverb is a nice touch but not very pronounced but good enough for a practice amp. Plugged into a 2x12 with v30s this thing rips. I would eventually like to see a schematic on this bad boy to compare to the old. BTW I have a couple NOS RCA 12bh7 tubes (took a chance on ebay but they had the original box so), I forget what I biased it to. If anyone wants to know I can check my notes. It has the same 10ohm resistor so math remains the same.


----------



## Moony

I wanted to "upgrade" and have compared my old DSL5C with the new DSL5CR and found the new one much worse sounding in the ultra gain channel. 
It has a better volume control and the deep switch does add more oomph whilst there is already more low end when disengaged - but the drive sound felt very mushy with a softer undefined attack in comparison with the former version. Also it felt like a slighty rolled of tone control on guitar. 

I tested two different DSL5CR models - both were made in January 2018. 

Maybe I'll give a newer produced one a try again. I had a hard time to believe, that Marshall messed up the DSL5C that way with the current version. But maybe the lack of dynamics are caused by the mosfet PI which is certainly only for cutting production costs down and not, because it sounds better. 

I would love to see schematics of the new DSL5CR but haven't found them. Maybe then I would be able to mod it to my tastes.


----------



## Micky

I agree. Although I have not played a new one, I love the construction and circuit of the original. I have replaced the speaker in mine, and that made all the difference in the world. I added a choke and replaced the OT (which added 4-ohm output) and now only reluctantly will sell it if I get the right offer.

I stack my '57 Champ on top and run them both sometimes, the whole stack is small and sits behind my lazy boy in the living room. 

I haven't seen any schematics for the new one yet, but I am sure they will pop-up somewhere...


----------



## Moony

I didn't like the stock speaker either, have put in a WGS ET-10 and WGS Retro-10. Both are much better. 
Wouldn't go with a 12" in this small cab. I know people who have done and regretted it because it will sound very boomy and boxy then. 
But this is a matter of taste.


----------



## mad5066

Interesting, I ordered mine in March last year and for all I know it may have been made in January, I'll have to check that. But I'm using dimarzio pick ups and haven't experienced what you're describing. I run it very loud with the volume never below noon maybe that has something to do with it? I dunno. Wasn't knocking the old one, I still liked it but to me the newer one has a few things I wanted out of the old one.

Micky, the mods you made sound awesome, it'd be tough for me to part with too in your situation.


----------



## mad5066

10" speakers seem to get a bad wrap in small combos and I think that's somewhat overplayed and undeserved. Done right, they can be more punchy and articulate. Even if it can fit a 12" sometimes the cab acoustics can't handle it, what you referred to as too boomy/boxy. Marshall probably added the deep switch to emulate the low end of a 12".


----------



## Micky

I agree, 10" speakers are criticized far too often. I know, I do it all the time. BUT - Having said that, I also have used my share of 10" speakers, all the way from a Fender 4X10 to a Marshall 4X10 and every combination in between. It all lies in choosing the RIGHT 10" 'er...

In my '57 Champ (5F1 clone), I had a 10" combo cab built for it (instead of the usual 6 or 8 inch) and I used a WGS G10CS (smooth cone) speaker and I love it. I first tried it in the DSL5c, and it still didn't excite me as much as the 12" WGS Green Beret I have in there now.

The Green Beret is a 25W speaker, and seems perfectly matched with the DSL.


----------



## Moony

mad5066 said:


> Marshall probably added the deep switch to emulate the low end of a 12".



The deep switch is standard on old JCM2000 DSLs, the newer bigger ones have a resonance knob instead - and the older DSL5C has the deep switch, too - but at the newer DSL5CR it adds even more lows. I guess they increased the depth, because most people, who buy the 5W combo are playing at home at low volumes - and for that it's good to add some lows, kinda like a loudness button on a stereo/Hi-Fi. 
If someone wants small cab and 12" speaker, they have the DSL20CR.


----------



## Micky

I use the deep switch (tone shift) a little differently, I like it deep for Strats & Teles (single coils) and not for humbuckers.


----------



## Moony

Micky said:


> I use the deep switch (tone shift) a little differently, I like it deep for Strats & Teles (single coils) and not for humbuckers.



Deep and tone shift are two different switches. The first one adds low end, the second one changes the EQ in the tone stack and scoops out the mids.


----------



## DannyB

Wow, I actually read all the way through, again! 

I still have my 5C and really dig the Plexi channel. Just step on the switch and go from plexi to hotrodded JCM800ish. Still running the 10" Greenback.

Haven't gotten around to installing a 12, nor a choke. The HJS just sits there with the cover on it.

@Micky What OT did you end up with? I'd love to have 16 and 8 ohms.

Good to see some folks still playing the 5C!


----------



## Antmax

I still have my 5c even though I have a 20h. The 5c is the CCW limited edition with the brown tooled tolex and basket weave. My wife likes it enough to keep it in the living room. So that's where I play when she listens to podcasts and does work related things in the study.

I did the 12 inch speaker upgrade early on. Means you still have a fair amount of lows available even with the combo sitting up on a sideboard. It's great for practice at low volume.


----------



## Moony

Antmax said:


> The 5c is the CCW limited edition with the brown tooled tooled and basket weave.



These are nice, I've got two of them. Grabbed them, while they were in stock. 
And now comparing to the new Blackstar HT-5 MKII, which is a very nice amp, too (no offense to all Marshall fans!) - we'll see, which one I like better.


----------



## Scottz

I have the same, love the look and sound.


----------



## Moony

Just in case, you haven't watched this already


----------



## Scottz

So for the tube rollers in this thread, what have you found to be the best combination for more clean headroom?


----------



## Moony

Scottz said:


> So for the tube rollers in this thread, what have you found to be the best combination for more clean headroom?



I don't recommend using 12AT7 or even 12AU7 in this amp. A 5751 in V1 could be "ok". 
I would go with a selected JJ ECC83MG in V1, V2 not the highest gain rated Chinese 12AX7B (fe. a Ruby 12AX7AC5 HG) and a JJ ECC83S or Sovtek 12AX7LPS for the phase inverter (only on the old DSL5C - the new DSL5CR has a mosfet PI).


----------



## Scottz

What about 12AY7?


----------



## Moony

Scottz said:


> What about 12AY7?



I wouldn't do that. 
But you can certainly try the different types and see, if you like it.


----------



## Micky

A 12AY7 has even less gain than a 12AT7.


----------



## Scottz

I'm guessing you're thinking the gain is too low with a 12AY7. I may need to look at a speaker upgrade as well. Red channel has been fine, but the green channel, just past the point of breakup quickly gets bad, kind of loud but muffled if that makes sense.

I guess it's time to re-read all 39 pages again!


----------



## Moony

Scottz said:


> I may need to look at a speaker upgrade as well. Red channel has been fine, but the green channel, just past the point of breakup quickly gets bad, kind of loud but muffled if that makes sense.



You can put in another speaker which is a bit louder, I would go with a WGS ET-10 or Retro-10 - though it's just due to the design, that you get crunchy tones, when turning up the volume in classic gain channel.
You could hear it in here in the first audio sample, where volume is on 12 o'clock - even with the Rickenbacker, it's not fully clean: https://www.bonedo.de/artikel/einzelansicht/marshall-dsl5c-test/2.html


----------



## Scottz

It's not just a manner of being clean, once it starts distorting it almost sounds like the speaker is blown if you go a little further, even on 1 watt. I need to pull the back off and get a good look at the speaker. I've cranked it all the way up on the red channel without that bad sound though.


----------



## Moony

Scottz said:


> It's not just a manner of being clean, once it starts distorting it almost sounds like the speaker is blown if you go a little further, even on 1 watt. I need to pull the back off and get a good look at the speaker. I've cranked it all the way up on the red channel without that bad sound though.



That's the way it is - listen here at 10:30:


----------



## Scottz

Moony said:


> That's the way it is - listen here at 10:30:



That's good to know, I guess.


----------



## Moony

Maybe of interest for some folks here - the DSL5CR vs HT-5R MKII:


----------



## ryechua

AllanAnd said:


> Just a small update regarding my own post from May 1st. I made a deal with the store (where i happen to work occasionally) that I could open it up and try a couple of things without voiding warranty. I did... Thought I'd found the problem - som kind of transformer-thingy (the one seen left in the picture in post #669) seemed loose and able to make a rattle... Put washers under it and tightened the screws... Thought everything was cool...
> 
> Alas - it wasn't and now the annoying sound seems to have evolved into a more metallic rattling. So now I took it to the store and await further news from my tech colleage... I love that amp and the look and sound of it (CCW) so I sure hope someone can get it back to working like it's supposed to!
> 
> I'd hate to have to go looking for something else!


sorry for digging an old thread. I had the same issue with the transformer parts becoming loose. the amp had a pinging or buzzing sound only with the open A string. What I eventually did was to put a piece of paper between the transformer and the wood and tightened it to get rid of the rattle/pinging/buzzing sound.


----------



## Micky

Don't apologize for posting here - The info is valuable to others with this amp.


----------



## Ateo

Hi guys,
i´ve got the DSL 5C and want to jump the fx loop. Could somebody tell me how to do it? I couldn´t find any information on how to get rid of an fx loop on the otherhand there are tons on infos how to build one in. I hope you can help me.
thanks


----------



## Micky

Why do you want to jump the loop? Is it not working?
Normally one just uses a short instrument cable (6 inches or so) like what is used on a pedalboard.


----------



## Ateo

hi, oh i think that was misunderstanding. i want to get rid of the loop, disengage it from the circuit. People I asked told me that I couldn´t just simply disconnected the loop so I need to know what I exactly have to do to get the loop out of the circuit.


----------



## smitty_p

Rather than starting a new thread, I decided I'd just add to this one.

I have one of the earlier DSL5C amplifiers. As I mentioned in my Introductions thread, I play live with this amp. I essentially use it as a head and run to an external speaker in an isolation cabinet that I built. There, the speaker is mic'ed to the PA. 

Currently, I'm using a Celestion G10N-40, But @Micky 's mention of a 12" WGS Green Beret has me interested....I've gotta look into that.

Anyhoo...I changed my PI valve to a JAN Philips 5751, versus the stock ECC83. Additionally, I changed the stock V1 to an Electro Harmonix 12AX7. I tried a Sylvania 12AX7 valve in the V1 slot, too.

Results?

I tried the 5751 swap in the phase inverter first, before changing any valves in V1.

The difference is very slight. You won't notice a night-and-day difference. There really was no tonal change, per se, that I could detect. However, there was less fizz on the Ultra channel. I want to say that a Stratocaster is more usable with this amp now, as the 5751 takes just a touch off the spikiness of a Strat bridge pickup. I've also done the steel plate mod to the bridge pickup of my Strat, so...there's that.

As for the V1 swaps, when I swapped in the Sylvania 12AX7 I couldn't hear a meaningful difference between that and the stock ECC83. The Electro-Harmonix 12AX7, however, seemed like it added just the slightest touch more harmonics. Again, it wasn't a super-obvious change, but it help this amp "grow up" a little more. I'm leaving it in.

My next task is to acquire a 12" speaker and build a new enclosure for it.

I've been planning on a Greenback, but I'm curious about this Green Beret. What are the positives about that?


----------



## Micky

There are a lot of positives about the WGS GB. First it is made in USA and second it costs a lot less to ship it around. Third, that means savings are passed on to you. Plus, if you wanna call it number 4, it sounds incredible. Mind you I only compared it to a Celestion 10" GB, (as well as the OEM Celestion) but I have had the chance to compare it to other 12" speakers and it is much more articulate. Being as this is a 25W speaker you have no worries about overpowering it, I feel it is a perfect match.

Also, this is exactly what this thread was started for, a place for everyone to post their experiences with this amp. Your post is very informative and helpful, and I hope you can post more as this amp is an awesome platform for not only mods, but live experiences as well. I used mine only a couple times live and it easily cut thru the mix both in a 500-seat auditorium as well as a huge gymnasium.


----------



## smitty_p

Thanks, Micky, for the kind words and information.

The next time I play live, I’ll have to pay close attention to the mix with this setup. While the touch of added harmonics from the EH tube sound great alone, sometimes those things have a way of making the sound disappear in the mix.


----------



## scozz

smitty_p said:


> Thanks, Micky, for the kind words and information.
> 
> The next time I play live, I’ll have to pay close attention to the mix with this setup. While the touch of added harmonics from the EH tube sound great alone, sometimes those things have a way of making the sound disappear in the mix.



I think that it's pretty cool that you play live with that little guy, kudos to you. I must ask though, is there a live drummer in this performance?


----------



## JAC

Micky said:


> There are a lot of positives about the WGS GB. First it is made in USA and second it costs a lot less to ship it around. Third, that means savings are passed on to you. Plus, if you wanna call it number 4, it sounds incredible. Mind you I only compared it to a Celestion 10" GB, (as well as the OEM Celestion) but I have had the chance to compare it to other 12" speakers and it is much more articulate. Being as this is a 25W speaker you have no worries about overpowering it, I feel it is a perfect match.
> 
> Also, this is exactly what this thread was started for, a place for everyone to post their experiences with this amp. Your post is very informative and helpful, and I hope you can post more as this amp is an awesome platform for not only mods, but live experiences as well. I used mine only a couple times live and it easily cut thru the mix both in a 500-seat auditorium as well as a huge gymnasium.



Micky I got one of those WGS GB 16 ohms inside a cab. I use it with my JTM1H and it sounds beautiful. I need to use the cab to try the DSL5C with.


----------



## smitty_p

scozz said:


> I think that it's pretty cool that you play live with that little guy, kudos to you. I must ask though, is there a live drummer in this performance?



Yes. I cheat though. I run to an external speaker housed in an isolation cabinet. The speaker is mic’ed inside the iso-cab and run to the PA. I’m certainly not trying to rely on the little amp, itself!


----------



## JAC

I've been on a Fender amp kick lately but, you guys are forcing me to pull out the DSL5C. I've been swapping between a Champ 12 and JTM1H.


----------



## Micky

Funny you mention that - I stack my '57 Champ on top of my DSL5c here in the living room. I run a cable from the hi input on the Champ into the DSL and slave that amp off the Fender. I still have a couple pedals (EQ, Reverb) in the loop of the DSL, and I push the input of the Champ with either a Power Stack or an SD-1.

When I want some reverb or some extra power, I just turn on the DSL. What an awesome setup, and the footprint of the DSL is slightly bigger than the Champ, so the stack is stable. And it sounds fantastic. Far too loud if I crank it, so I run the Champ thru a PS-1 attenuator.

I can run different tubes in th Champ, I currently have a big 6L6 in it, but it will take a 6V6 or EL34. I have a couple other odd power tubes yet to try in the setup but it is sounding pretty good...


----------



## JAC

Micky said:


> Funny you mention that - I stack my '57 Champ on top of my DSL5c here in the living room. I run a cable from the hi input on the Champ into the DSL and slave that amp off the Fender. I still have a couple pedals (EQ, Reverb) in the loop of the DSL, and I push the input of the Champ with either a Power Stack or an SD-1.
> 
> When I want some reverb or some extra power, I just turn on the DSL. What an awesome setup, and the footprint of the DSL is slightly bigger than the Champ, so the stack is stable. And it sounds fantastic. Far too loud if I crank it, so I run the Champ thru a PS-1 attenuator.
> 
> I can run different tubes in th Champ, I currently have a big 6L6 in it, but it will take a 6V6 or EL34. I have a couple other odd power tubes yet to try in the setup but it is sounding pretty good...



If you run a 6L6 or EL34 does it raise the power? My Champ 12 has a 6L6 in it. If I put a 6V6 in it, maybe it might sound like SF VC? Maybe the power would drop to 6 watt also?


----------



## Micky

I haven't measured output power with different tubes yet, but that is next on the list. Being that it is single-ended Class A I think it just might...


----------



## hillfried

Hi Folks,
i have found a schematic for the DSL5C but i don't know if it right. 
Can i take this link here to Forum or it's not a good idea ?
Regards Hilmar


----------



## Ramo

Jay76 said:


> hey thanks for this! sorry for the late reply.
> 
> I replaced the speaker with a Greenback after reading all of the positive posts here about them. It took a good few hours before it sounded good (to my ears). At first I wondered if I had made the right speaker choice.
> 
> I also replaced all 3 pre amp valves with Harma Retro valves (from Watford Valves) and I put a TAD in the power section.
> 
> My god I love this amp now. It sounds better each day. It absolutely sings and I can't help but turn the vol up and end up with ringing ears.
> 
> Dare I say it (and I can't believe I'm actually saying this), but when comparing it to my stock SL-5 (which was my favorite amp) It's like taking the blanket off when I switch to the DSL5c.
> 
> The DSL5c is just in your face and so articulate.
> 
> I prefer it for both cleans and dirty tones.
> 
> I am using a Hardwire pedal for my spring reverb through the loop. Nice and transparent.
> 
> Fuzz face and wah through the front for Jimi inspired tones and dirty blues.
> 
> Channel 2 amp gain for heavy rock.




thinking to put harma retro in my dsl100hr , that's what they recommended Watford valves. do you play high gain stuff, if so does it sound good??
im guessing cant be worse than the stock valves.


----------



## Micky

hillfried said:


> Hi Folks,
> i have found a schematic for the DSL5C but i don't know if it right.
> Can i take this link here to Forum or it's not a good idea ?
> Regards Hilmar


I don't know what you mean...
Do you want to post the schematic here?
Marshall frowns on that...


----------



## Tubemaniac

Hey guys, does anyone have a demo video or something of the modded amp with a 12" speaker?
I kinda quickly looked over all 40 pages and found loaaads of good info, and although I didn't read every single post, I don't think i found anyone sharing any experience upgrading the newer dsl5cr with a 12" speaker? is it not possible for some reason or just nobody did it yet? Thanks in advance and keep pushing your tubes


----------



## Micky

You might find more info if you can find a dedicated 5cr thread. 
This one has been concentrated on the older 5c model...


----------



## Arron Lacey

I know it's the DSL50, but this video seems useful in terms of trying out different tubes. The 12AU7 seemed very effective at hauling the gain profile down a notch or 2. Think I'll try this mod in my DSL5 as some extra headroom on both channels would be great.


----------



## JHMvP

Loooong time lurker from Holland here...and guys...you are simply *The. Best!*
Every time I start lurking the newest posts, I'm amazed with the technical and musical knowledge that you're sharing with the world...

I'm just an old (51yo) IT-consultant guy that changed career to international trading of medical goods 10 years ago, so I do have _some_ technical insights. But I'm just a lousy player and too humble to join you all into any technical/musical discussions.

Yes, I do own a vertical input JCM800 1x12 (plus period-right 1x12 cabinet), a vertical input JCM800 2x12, a 6101 LE Gold, an Artist 30, a JTM30 2x12, some forgotten Marshall-stuff in the attic and a few 5210's (rock-solid _tanks_ for gigging with PODXL, -300 and 500's and as donors).

But recently I got myself a Lead12 and a SL5 and I'm amazed how _non-cork-sniffers'-amps_ can sound *A-MA-ZING!* (Even without the POD's).

So, now I'm looking at an early model DSL5C and I've read all 40 pages of merely enthusiastic posts but I'm a bit puzzled now; what tubes should I change, what resistors I do have to clip or what bias-instructions do I have to give to my tech-guy (stated I don't want to change the original speaker) to get *the *utmost* clean headroom*?

PS. I have a big load of Marshall EL34's (=Shuguang EL34-B). Can they be used well?


----------



## Antmax

If your DIY skills will let you squeeze a 12" into the DSL 5 then you probably don't need to do any electronics mods except tubes to suite your tastes. The original speaker on mine sounded a bit thin, brittle and glassy. The bigger speaker transformed it and even gave it some chug if I wanted it.


----------



## Micky

The speaker will make the biggest change you can hear, tubes not so much but that doesn't prevent you from experimenting. You can't use the EL34's unfortunately.

The final tube in the 5c is a 12BH7A, the one that came in mine was a TAD, and it sounds great. If you read this whole thread, then you probably read that already. Since then I have tried a couple different ones, none have the wide frequency response of the TAD.

I also tried a couple different lower gain tubes (12AT7, 12AU7). in the preamp slots, but I think I have ended up with the same 12AX7 tubes in order to keep the glassy cleans.

I have been thru this amp inside-out, and I think I have it where I need it to be, honestly I didn't end up changing much at all. I do at times use a pedal or two, (BOSS RV-5, GE-7, OD-1x) but basically it sits underneath my Champ for when I need to blast some loud tunes.

I have a feeling you will love yours.


----------



## Mike Snyder

Hello, first post. Can someone tell me what model number footswitch works with the DSL5c. I bought one used but did not come with the switch.


----------



## Zylo

hello everyone

First of all apologies- i am new to this site, and if im in the wrong thread i do apologise. i

i am a beginner guitarist (very bad one at the moment!) for the last few weeks ive been researching the right amp for me (and budget) i was leaning towards the boss katanas, but to me its just too much fiddling, and i just wanted that marshall tone.no matter how good that amp is, it just sounded too "digital" for me if that makes sense?. 
The sound i like i would say is the gritty thin lizzy/ac dc/ gnr tone i would say..so i took the plunge and got myself a DSL5CR...
being very new to Tube amps, sorry if i sound really noob. i just have a few questions about this amp. 

1. after i switch it one, do i need to give it time for the tubes to warm up before playing?
2. does it need to be on for a certain amount of time before i switch it off... ie switching on/off will this damage it in any way.
3. one of the reasons i chose this amp- for future use, i will get a pedal or two...and am i right. these pedals will be plugged into the FX loop
4. am i right in saying give the speakers time to break in, 

i think thats it for now, dont want to bombard everyone

final thing i would like to say.. i did play with it for 5 minutes ...and it left me with a nice smile....just that nice warmth sound that everyone tries to emulate but only marshall deliver! and into the worm hole i come!!


----------



## Antmax

1) not really. The tube amp will not make any noise when you first turn it on. The volume will fade in over about 20-30 seconds. At which point its ready to play. Playing before that probably won't do anything, but there isn't much point because it will sound rubbish.

2)Switch it on whenever you like. Just not on and off within a second or two. Just like anything with a lot of capacitors and similar components inside.

3) Usually you put time based effects in the FX loop (reverb, phaser, delay, chorus) and everything else up front (Overdrive, Fuzz, Distortion). In front being in between your Guitar and the amp.

4) Speakers don't sound great in a new amp, they might sound a bit thin, harsh and maybe a bit fizzy without much bass. With time the sound becomes more balanced and rounded with a smoother transition between the different frequencies.

You don't have to baby the speakers though. The louder and more often you play them the quicker it will sound better. Difference is noticeable within about 12 hours of play, but it can take dozens of hours for speakers to find their optimal tone.


----------



## Zylo

thanks

and
5. Dialling in the amp.... theres like YT videos which are like a hour long on this subject.. any tips for me please from the Pros here?


----------



## PaulHikeS2

Zylo said:


> thanks
> 
> and
> 5. Dialling in the amp.... theres like YT videos which are like a hour long on this subject.. any tips for me please from the Pros here?


Hi - congrats on the amp. I have the same and it's also my first tube amp - I've had it for about 5 months. On the Classic Gain channel, I like to dime the volume, then bring up the gain to around 9:00. On the Ultra channel, it's a bit trickier as there's a lot more variance depending on how much crunch you want. I usually start around 2:00 on the volume, and adjust the gain based on what I'm going for.


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## Antmax

Most DSL's don't sound that great if the volume is less than 2 (9'oclock). Once you touch that the tone fills out a bit more. Most people use the deep switch to get a bit more body out of the small speaker. I tend to have high mids 12 o'clock to 3 o'clock, lower bass and treble but a lot depends on the guitar and if your using it as a pedal platform. A humbucker guitar will be different to a single coil with more thicker bass and less glassy chime compared to single coils. There's too many variables really.

In my case, I swapped out the speaker for a 12 inch pretty soon after I got it. So its kind of hard to give advice for the stocker. Other than I always had the deep switch on when I had the original speaker and changed the preamp tubes for less gain and more headroom overall.


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## Zylo

thanks guys - ive read a bit on this forum, that changing it to a 12" speaker is well worth it..

thinking ahead - i dont fancy making cuts etc...if i get a 1x12 cab, using that, is it a simple case of unplugging the speaker lead in the back and plugging it into the cab pls?


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## Antmax

So long as it's a 16 ohm cab then that's all there is to it yes.


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## Zylo

thats the plan! i will wait tho and see how much the current speaker breaks in- then again, im looking at getting an Epi LP and that might change things again lol

question for any current owners - what replacement speakers did you go with please? as reading around here, general gist seems to be certain speakers do well with certain amps?

im leaning towards getting 1x12 cab.. guessing that will give me more flexibility..

G12-65 greenbacks maybe? or vintage 30s?


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## Cop955

Hello Guys,

My first post here, so I want first to introduce myself briefly. I have been reading your posts for years now from France and I have to thank you all as I learnt a lot from you. In addition to a Katana 100, I own as well a DSL5C, will be 4 years in December and I love that little beast. I am not what we could say a good guitar player, but I have a lot of pleasure playing blues and soloing over the tons of backing tracks we can find on the net these days. I have a few guitars (an US Strat, a US Gibson Les Paul, a Gibson Custom Shop BB King Lucille and a Gretsch G5655TG), I also have a pedal board mostly composed of BOSS pedals (I love BOSS gear), and also a BOSS GT-1000. Depending on the needs, I use the DSL5C straight or with the GT-1000 or the pedal board using the 4CM and it works well.

Couple of months ago I replaced all the used valves of the DSL, and could easily bias the new 12BH7A tube using all the information found in this forum thread above (Particular thanks to Micky, this was very useful).

Recently, I opened the amp to check the bias voltage to see if it has changed from my first setting (109mv). And I noticed something that I may have not seen 2 months ago when I changed the tubes (or I do not remember?).

Anyway, as you can see on the pic below (yellow circle), there is something strange at the bottom of the cap upper left of the trim pot. It could simply be some sort of glue or otherwise the cap may be damaged? I think this is just glue and I should not worry, but would appreciate some expert confirmation.

Can someone help me and tell if you have similar glue on your amp or if the cap could be damaged?

I do appreciate the help.

Greetings form France


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## scozz

Cop955 said:


> Hello Guys,
> 
> My first post here, so I want first to introduce myself briefly. I have been reading your posts for years now from France and I have to thank you all as I learnt a lot from you. In addition to a Katana 100, I own as well a DSL5C, will be 4 years in December and I love that little beast. I am not what we could say a good guitar player, but I have a lot of pleasure playing blues and soloing over the tons of backing tracks we can find on the net these days. I have a few guitars (an US Strat, a US Gibson Les Paul, a Gibson Custom Shop BB King Lucille and a Gretsch G5655TG), I also have a pedal board mostly composed of BOSS pedals (I love BOSS gear), and also a BOSS GT-1000. Depending on the needs, I use the DSL5C straight or with the GT-1000 or the pedal board using the 4CM and it works well.
> 
> Couple of months ago I replaced all the used valves of the DSL, and could easily bias the new 12BH7A tube using all the information found in this forum thread above (Particular thanks to Micky, this was very useful).
> 
> Recently, I opened the amp to check the bias voltage to see if it has changed from my first setting (109mv). And I noticed something that I may have not seen 2 months ago when I changed the tubes (or I do not remember?).
> 
> Anyway, as you can see on the pic below (yellow circle), there is something strange at the bottom of the cap upper left of the trim pot. It could simply be some sort of glue or otherwise the cap may be damaged? I think this is just glue and I should not worry, but would appreciate some expert confirmation.
> 
> Can someone help me and tell if you have similar glue on your amp or if the cap could be damaged?
> 
> I do appreciate the help.
> 
> Greetings form France
> 
> 
> View attachment 81615


I think you’ll get many more responses to you question if you start your own thread about it.


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## Micky

That stuff at the bottom of the cap is adhesive. Not to worry.

Glad you are having fun with the amp, it is a great little beast.

Also, as scozz says, put a post in the Introduce Yourself section to say hi to all the others here. They are a vast reference of info, you will enjoy hanging out here.


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## Cop955

Thanks Scozz and Micky for your answers. I was guessing so for the cap but good to have a confirmation. I was not aware of the Introduce Yourself section and will post somthing there to say Hi.

Thanks


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## Mitchell Pearrow

Cop955 said:


> Thanks Scozz and Micky for your answers. I was guessing so for the cap but good to have a confirmation. I was not aware of the Introduce Yourself section and will post somthing there to sau Hi.
> 
> Thanks


Welcome to the forum 
Congratulations on your amp and the tones you can get with it.
Cheers 
Mitch


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## Tdawgg

Hi, I've been lurking on this thread for the last few weeks, it's pretty amazing!
I have a dsl5c, that I have done a lot of work to, and I wanted to post pictures on here, but apparently the files are too large, so I guess I'll work on making them smaller so I can post them.
The modifications I've done to my amp are as follows.
Change the output transformer for a Mercury Magnetics direct replacement
Added a Mercury magnetics choke.
Remove the baffle, and built a new baffle for a 12-in speaker, with the correct size speaker opening
Added a 12-in, 16 ohm vintage 30 speaker
Change the grill cloth to a black and tan basket weave
the biggest difference in the upgrades, were the output transformer in the speaker. This little lamp sounds amazing, but one thing that I would still like to modify is the "icepick" treble frequency.
Because there's no master volume on the clean channel, it's hard to wind up that channel, and get any kind of usable distortion out of it, but if I put a pedal in front of it, it sounds awesome.
I have a line 6 HX Stomp on a small pedal board, that I added an additional 2-foot switches to, did I use with this amp in the four cable method, and it gives me an amazing little 5 Watt setup, that's amazingly loud!
Also, I am thinking of building the baffles to replace the 10-in speaker with a 12-in speaker, and possibly offering them for sale, with maybe two or three different choices of grill cloth. It's not very difficult to replace the baffle, once you have the chassis out, you simply remove the speaker, then three grabbers on each side of the baffle, and pull it out. As stated earlier in the forum you do have to hog out the bottom of the cabinet to allow for the 12-in speaker to sit flush with the top of the baffle, so the chassis can go back in and out. The speaker doesn't sit exactly center in the opening of the baffle I cut, but it certainly opened it up a lot more than what the 10-in speaker allowed, and it did make a pretty big difference.
I'll try and post pictures as soon as I can figure out how to make them work on the forum haha
Not sure if anybody's still reading this forum, but I'm having a lot of fun with this amp now and even though I did spend a couple of bucks on it, it's a great little grab-and-go amp that sounds amazing!


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## DADGAD

Recently picked up a used DSL5C. Really dig the red channel with my Strat. But found the green channel sounded terrible with my guitar. I started playing with various tubes. Ended up with a GE 5751 in V1, a Ruby HG 12AX7 in V2, a GE 12AT7 in V3 and a GE 12BH7A doing output duties. In my humble stash of old, used 12BH7 tubes, I observed that 12BH7A types had a longer, larger plate than the 12BH7 types. The A type plate looked to be about 1/8” longer. The stock Marshall tube has the longer plate like a 12BH7A. The tube rolling got the gain structure where I wanted it and the output tube sounded best when adjusted to 110mv. The B+ in my amp measures 450 volts.

I laid eyes on a DSL5C schematic and saw what Marshall did in the green channel. Circuit wise, between the V1 input gain stage and the green/clean channel volume control, is a high pass and a low pass filter combination. Its effect can be thought of as being similar to a “loudness” button on an old home hifi receiver. Except it is permanently engaged at any green channel volume level.

* Grab your diagonal cutters…

The high pass portion of the green channel filter consists of C14 (220 pF) and R9 (82K) and R11 (150K). Cut one leg of R9 to disable it. If you carefully cut in the middle of the lead you can tack solder it back if you wish. The low pass portion of the filter consists of R14 (100K) and C13 (47nF) through R13 (10K) to ground. Cut one leg of R13 and lift it to disable the low boost. There is still a bright cap (C20, 100pF) across the 1M clean channel volume pot but the cap sounds fine staying in circuit on my amp.

Cutting the two resistors leads removed the harshness and flabbiness in the green channel. The stock Celestion 10/30 speaker now sounds great. I hope this helps anyone who finds the DSL5C green channel needing improvement. Switching between channels, I no longer have to change my tone controls.

Best regards.

* CAUTION: TO REDUCE THE RISK OF ELECTRICAL SHOCK, DO NOT REMOVE COVER (OR BACK). NO USER SERVICABLE PARTS INSIDE. REFER SERVICING TO QUALIFIED SERVICE PERSONNEL.


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## Ozark

Hi Micky, just my personal opinion and sharing. I have not change any tubes in my DSL5C todate and it is 5years old now.

I have replaced the internal speaker to a CELESTON G10 Greenback Speaker couple of years ago. It's pretty good but the following speaker are even much better!

*EXTERNAL CAB - (Marshall MX112R - 80W RMS - LEAD 1X12” 16ohm)*

Recently I purchased the above mentioned cab. Which I have waited for a couple of months for the stock to arrive here in Singapore.

Having played for almost a month, my DSL5C (with the stock tubes) sounded really great! Both the top end and lower end sounds are great! Fat, warm, punchy and the cleans (green channel) are nice sounding too.

*PS:* For owners who prefer a 12” speaker and do not want to change the internal speaker, this external cab is a good choice.


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## Ozark

Here's how I stacked the external cab below my DSL5C.


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## Antmax

Ozark said:


> Here's how I stacked the external cab below my DSL5C.
> View attachment 89450



I have the CCW version of the DSL5c. If they had a matching cab I'd jump on it, yours look good paired up as a mini stack .


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## Stratitis

Hi!
Anybody tried to swap the 12BH7 for a 12AU7 to reduce output power to about 1W ?
What additional mods will be required (bias, anode voltage...)?


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## GregM

I haven't, I did buy a bugera ps1 for a SC20 I was waiting for. Finally got to dime it in 5w mode and it blew my socks off in classic gain mode.
With guitar volume on 10 I was getting instant feedback and into distortion. Back off guitar volume to 9 and it was really really nice breakup on it.
And the bugera goes to zero volume then slides up so playable at any volume you like with not alot of tone loss at all that I can tell of. I was actually wondering why I was getting a SC20 ( till I got the SC20).
Totally changed the amp for me!


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## wiibur

I have the same wind/rustling issue on my DSL5C as described in this thread related to the larger DSL models: https://www.marshallforum.com/threads/new-dsl20hr-and-a-problem.100349/page-3

Does anyone know which cap to replace on the DLS5C to resolve this issue?


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## Mitchell Pearrow

wiibur said:


> I have the same wind/rustling issue on my DSL5C as described in this thread related to the larger DSL models: https://www.marshallforum.com/threads/new-dsl20hr-and-a-problem.100349/page-3
> 
> Does anyone know which cap to replace on the DLS5C to resolve this issue?




To the forum 
Sorry I am of no help here with your question, but be patient others here should be able to help you.


Mitch


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## Tubemaniac

who knows where i can find BIAS calculator or tables for 12BH7 please? thank you!


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## fitz

Bias Calculator | Tube Amp Bias Calculator (easycalculation.com)


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## Tubemaniac

Thank you!


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## Tubemaniac

Micky said:


>



All right, i won't kill myself as i have a bit of experience messing around with electrics, but never tried to adjust the tube amp bias myself. I saw the videos with DSL40C and the guy was connecting the black lead from the multimeter to the middle of the bias testing point and the red to each of the sides to test each power tube.

In case of DSL5C there's still 3 pins on the bias test point but only one power tube. So I guess i still connect the black lead to the middle and then the red one to which side? 
And if i want to read the voltage of the tube then i connect the black lead to ground (chassis) and the red one to the 3rd pin? Where do you count the 3rd pin from? Most sources say its clockwise but depending on the tube i saw some people saying it can be anti clockwise? Definitely not enough info on 12bh7. Is it this one?? Thank you very much in advance for your help!


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## Micky

Both outer test pins are tied together, so connect to either one to measure bias.

Use your meter to find pin 3. It will read over 400VDC.


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## Tubemaniac

Micky said:


> Both outer test pins are tied together, so connect to either one to measure bias.
> 
> Use your meter to find pin 3. It will read over 400VDC.



Thank you very much!
Loved the amp stock, love it even more now with a Celestion G12h30 Anniversary, and love the amount of useful info in this thread.
Time to roll some tubes now


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## Micky

I have rolled a lot of tubes thru my 5c, but in the end as far as tubes go, I left it pretty much stock. I do like a Ruby hi-gain in V1, but that coupled with a Vet-30 (12") and I am very happy. It is incredibly loud for indoor use, and as of late I use it as a power amp feeding it with my '57 Fender Champ. The Champ sits right on top of the 5c, and it is the perfect platform for testing everything from pedals to pickups.

OH - remember that the bias numbers are multiplied by 10...


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## Moony

Has anyone posted a schematic for the new *DSL5CR* here?
I can't find it.


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## mad5066

@Moony No, no one has to my knowledge, just the DSL5C.


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## Moony

Never say never - if anyone has the schematic of the new DSL5CR (the one with the mosfet phase inverter instead of the 12AX7 and the reverb) please feel free to pm me.


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## mad5066

Moony said:


> Never say never - if anyone has the schematic of the new DSL5CR (the one with the mosfet phase inverter instead of the 12AX7 and the reverb) please feel free to pm me.


likewise!


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## scozz

It’s seem to me, being that the R Dsl’s have been out of production since 2018, the schematics would be available somewhere.


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## Moony

scozz said:


> It’s seem to me, being that the R Dsl’s have been out of production since 2018, the schematics would be available somewhere.



Why do you think so?
They are still widely available in the stores. 

The older DSL5C without the Reverb is discontinued though. 
Marshall cut production costs when introducing the newer DSL5CR and replaced the 12AX7 for the phase inverter with mosfets. 
So the newer ones are no full tube amps anymore.


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## Micky

Well, it's 2022 and still no schematic for the DSL5cr.


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## Moony

Micky said:


> Well, it's 2022 and still no schematic for the DSL5cr.



I guess some certified Marshall amp techs have it.


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