# The Eddie Van Halen Special Tuning Thread



## mrrstrat

OK: I just read some crap about EVH tuned his low E flat and his B flat so it had some novel sound because of lots of theory on harmonics.

So its Eflat-A-D-G-Bflat-E...Wouldnt that sound like a kick in the nuts? I mean I do play 2nd degree intervals on the G and B string to be obnoxious and irritate bandmates, but this tuning is something else.

Is this him BS'ing and protecting his tone (similar to how Robin Trowler would protect his tone)?

I basically grew up playing guitar and never heard of this - whats the truth and whats BS?


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## Marshall Mann

There is no way that tuning would sound like anything like what we hear from his recordings.

I do know that Eddy is famous for contradicting himself and making shit up as he goes during interviews though.


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## thrawn86

Sounds like BS again.


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## metromutt

Ed tuned half a step down, that claim has either been reported wrong in the press or mag from what Ed said (all strings) or read wrong by the reader. Have you got the link to the interview?


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## mrrstrat

From the venerable Wikipedia ("Eddie Van Halen"):

"*Tuning*
Though rarely discussed, one of the most distinctive aspects of Van Halen's sound was Eddie's tuning of the guitar. Before Van Halen, most distorted, metal-oriented rock consciously avoided the use of the major third interval in guitar chords, creating the signature power chord of the genre. When run through a distorted amplifier, the rapid beating of the major third on a conventionally tuned guitar is distracting and somewhat dissonant.[_citation needed_]
Eddie tuned to "Hendrix's tuning" which is flat E, the open G and B reaches a justly intonated, beatless third. This consonant third was almost unheard of in distorted-guitar rock and allowed Van Halen to use major chords in a way that mixed classic hard rock power with "happy" pop. The effect is pronounced on songs such as "Runnin' With the Devil", "Unchained", and "Where Have All the Good Times Gone?".
With the B string flat, chords in some positions on the guitar have more justly intonated thirds, but in other positions the flat B string creates out-of-tune intervals. As Eddie once remarked to _Guitar Player_:
A guitar is just theoretically built wrong. Each string is an interval of fourths, and then the B string is off. Theoretically, that's not right. If you tune an open E chord in the first position and it's perfectly in tune, and then you hit a barre chord an octave higher, it's out of tune. The B string is always a bitch to keep in tune all the time! So I have to retune for certain songs​"

This is the same guy who threw those "180 dollar" guitars out of parts in the early 80's and admittantly did not have electronics and soldering skills (but we can forgive him for that because he ended up making up for that!). 

I am not convinced that a non-tech guy would be driven to persue the "beatless third". Im moderately technical and I could give a shit about the beatless third. After 30 years, Im still working on staying in tune, keeping my gear functioning, not writing compositional duds, and staying in time!


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## AudioWonderland

Total BS but its on the internet so it must be true


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## Wycked Lester

I think what they are trying to say is basically this....

He tuned his b string to be a perfect major 3rd harmony (which is what its supposed to be anyway but will alway be a few 'beats' out of tune) for tunes that he was using alot of 'A' shaped barre chords,....but would then tune, for instance, the B string 1st fret to be a perfect 4th to the G string [again, the way its normally tuned except made the 4th intervel beatless.

In other words- you can never have these two notes ......

------------------
------2------------
------2-------------
-----------------
-----------------
----------------

to be in PERFECT tune at the same time that these two notes are in perfect tune

--------------
------3--------
------2---------
---------------
----------------
---------------

so he would tune whichever one the song mainly required, to be beatless, or 'perfect'


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## mrrstrat

Wycked Lester said:


> I think what they are trying to say is basically this....
> 
> He tuned his b string to be a perfect major 3rd harmony (which is what its supposed to be anyway but will alway be a few 'beats' out of tune) for tunes that he was using alot of 'A' shaped barre chords,....but would then tune, for instance, the B string 1st fret to be a perfect 4th to the G string [again, the way its normally tuned except made the 4th intervel beatless.
> 
> In other words- you can never have these two notes ......
> 
> ------------------
> ------2------------
> ------2-------------
> -----------------
> -----------------
> ----------------
> 
> to be in PERFECT tune at the same time that these two notes are in perfect tune
> 
> --------------
> ------3--------
> ------2---------
> ---------------
> ----------------
> ---------------
> 
> so he would tune whichever one the song mainly required, to be beatless, or 'perfect'


 
Great explaination! It seems lazy to me - why not just fret the chords with the regular tuned B? I do tune to an open G occasionally and often tuned my kids guitars to open G when they were young so I did not have to hear an open G played without fretting an open G.

Heres one for you:

X---------------------
---2-----------------
---5-----------------
X---------------------
X---------------------
X---------------------


Its a favorite of mine to piss people off and sounds awsome loud and distorted.


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## Wycked Lester

mrrstrat said:


> Great explaination! It seems lazy to me - why not just fret the chords with the regular tuned B? .



because that way your 'A' chord and your 'D' chord would both be equally -a little out of tune-. 

So like on a tune like Runnin WT Devil,...all those chords would have a major 3rd that was a hair sharp. ...which sounds fucked up because the major 3rd interval is VERY unforgiving,...its either on or it sounds way off....the 4th interval is not nearly as finicky

What he probably did, as do many others,...me included ,...is flatten the B string a hair to sweeten the major 3 harmony in the "A" shaped chords, then you learn to bend the "D" shaped chords in tune.

Its splitting hairs, but it does make you chords a little 'sweeter'


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## kramer.geetar

That wiki article is correct, and WL has the right explanation. Roth era songs were all tuned half step down, Sammy era went more into standard from what I recall but I just play everything in Eb


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## SmokeyDopey

Yes its true. Not a full half step. 
I did this as a kid without even realizing. I never used a tuner, and I always fought with my 3rd and 2nd strings.
I'm sure there were intonation problems besides that, but when doing power chords on the 5th string, the 2nd string would ALWAYS sound sharp, so I always gave it a tug and a wiggle to stop the _out-of-tune_ vibration.


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## Australian

Buzz Feiten.


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## SmokeyDopey

OH! I'll make a fuzz pedal called: Fuzz Beiten 


(I don't know how to make pedals)


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## mrrstrat

Wycked Lester said:


> because that way your 'A' chord and your 'D' chord would both be equally -a little out of tune-.
> 
> So like on a tune like Runnin WT Devil,...all those chords would have a major 3rd that was a hair sharp. ...which sounds fucked up because the major 3rd interval is VERY unforgiving,...its either on or it sounds way off....the 4th interval is not nearly as finicky
> 
> What he probably did, as do many others,...me included ,...is flatten the B string a hair to sweeten the major 3 harmony in the "A" shaped chords, then you learn to bend the "D" shaped chords in tune.
> 
> Its splitting hairs, but it does make you chords a little 'sweeter'


 

Cool - I wondered why I could never really nail that seemingly simple progression. It is a bitch to deal with the B.


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## tresmarshallz

Very interesting information here, I love it.

Isn't there a type of compensated string nut that is supposed to help with this? Earvana or something like that?

I thought I read that the PRS guitars had some sort of built in compensation in the design for this issue, but I've never noticed it being completely solved on my PRS McCarty.


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## Wycked Lester

mrrstrat said:


> cool - i wondered why i could never really nail that seemingly simple progression. It is a bitch to deal with the b.



----------------------------------------------------
-5--7-----7--8---10----9------------------------------------
-5--7-----7--7----9----9-------------------------------------
-5--7-----7--9---11----9---------------------------------------
-3--5----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------


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## JSJ900

The article mixed up three or four tuning issues; Eb tuning, tuning all stings slightly flat in standard , drop-D tuning and tuning to compensate for intonanion (tuning to a chord instead of open strings). Eddie did all four of these things. He did not tune to Eb, A, D, G, Bb, E. That would sound like ass.


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## mrrstrat

JSJ900 said:


> The article mixed up three or four tuning issues; Eb tuning, tuning all stings slightly flat in standard , drop-D tuning and tuning to compensate for intonanion (tuning to a chord instead of open strings). Eddie did all four of these things. He did not tune to Eb, A, D, G, Bb, E. That would sound like ass.


 
Thats what I thought! As a guitar player, I could not understand the article as this tuning did not make sense as I sounded the notes out in my head (again, the kick in the nuts sound..)


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## playerone

mrrstrat said:


> OK: I just read some crap about EVH tuned his low E flat and his B flat so it had some novel sound because of lots of theory on harmonics.



it has nothing to do with any harmonic theory. Guitars are never in tune so eddie tuned those two strings slightly flat so that his guitar sounds in tune for rhythms like panama or running with the devil. If you've ever tried learning those songs and wondered why your playing doesn't sound quite right it's because of the tuning eddie used.

Try this- fret the 2nd string at the 9th fret and then tune your b string until it is in tune at that fret then play the rhythm to panama. Now the song sounds right. Eddie wasn't putting his guitar out of tune, he was putting it in tune at that position.


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## playerone

tresmarshallz said:


> Isn't there a type of compensated string nut that is supposed to help with this? Earvana or something like that?



There is but it doesn't solve the problem, it just minimizes it. Fretted instruments are never in tune and there's no solution because the way someone plays affects tuning


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## Mitchell Pearrow

playerone said:


> There is but it doesn't solve the problem, it just minimizes it. Fretted instruments are never in tune and there's no solution because the way someone plays affects tuning


 To the forum 
Cheers 
Mitch


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## Greg70

Marshall Mann said:


> There is no way that tuning would sound like anything like what we hear from his recordings.
> 
> I do know that Eddy is famous for contradicting himself and making shit up as he goes during interviews though.



He also installed a non-operational neck pickup in his guitar just to confuse people.


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## Ledjay80

Eb,Ab,Db,Gb,Bb,Eb
I believe in the guitar tech interview, he was referencing the High E string (but actually it might have been an example of how all the strings are tuned). The tuning favored is “14cents or 7th of a half step lower then normal Flat tuning.”
The interview also referenced the strings needing to be tuned to both the open position and the 5th position on the neck. The note hits immediately in pitch and dosnt need time to settle into pitch.
(Don’t forget your Frankenstein strat with the humbucker moved back to the bridge, which has fine tuning pegs, and the nut can lock the strings. But then next your purchasing the brown sound pedal and a Marshall plexi amp$$$$$$$$)


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## The Shadow

I may b wrong, but I'm thinking Ed tuned old school 432 Hz instead of 440. Gives a lower sound. I've been tuning mine whole step down in 432 Hz. I like it.


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## El Gringo

The Shadow said:


> I may b wrong, but I'm thinking Ed tuned old school 432 Hz instead of 440. Gives a lower sound. I've been tuning mine whole step down in 432 Hz. I like it.


I actually think this makes sense and is what EVH probably did


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## Michael Keene

mrrstrat said:


> OK: I just read some crap about EVH tuned his low E flat and his B flat so it had some novel sound because of lots of theory on harmonics.
> 
> So its Eflat-A-D-G-Bflat-E...Wouldnt that sound like a kick in the nuts? I mean I do play 2nd degree intervals on the G and B string to be obnoxious and irritate bandmates, but this tuning is something else.
> 
> Is this him BS'ing and protecting his tone (similar to how Robin Trowler would protect his tone)?
> 
> I basically grew up playing guitar and never heard of this - whats the truth and whats BS?



nah he tuned down a half step (Eb Ab Db Gb Bb Eb) for the vast majority of songs and he tuned down a half step and in drop tuning (Db Ab Db Gb Bb Eb) on a handful of songs. As far as tuning his 2nd and 6th strings down, he tuned them a few CENTS flat. Not a full half step. He’d also often tune his whole guitar a few cents flat most the time. So still Eb to Eb (or Db to Eb), but a few cents flat. Dimebag Darrell did the same thing except he tuned a few cents sharp. But Eddie never tuned his guitar to Eb A E G Bb E. I think you misunderstood what someone was telling you about what he did with is B and E strings. His 6th string he tuned a couple cents flat mostly in drop tuning (I do the same thing) because if you’re digging into the string it’ll go sharp tuned to Perfectly to A=440. He seemed to think his B string would go sharp when he played chords, so he tuned it a touch flat. All hail King Edward.


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## Michael Keene

The Shadow said:


> I may b wrong, but I'm thinking Ed tuned old school 432 Hz instead of 440. Gives a lower sound. I've been tuning mine whole step down in 432 Hz. I like it.



Yes, this is what Eddie did. Not a full half step down on his B end E strings. He tuned a half step flat on all 6 strings and tuned his sixth string an additional whole step lower on a handful of songs. Then additionally a few cents flat.


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## AlvisX

Top Jimmy 
DADACD

I love that sh*t !


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## ricksdisconnected

this tuning is OLD NEWS but here our friend Pete shows you whats going on with this idea.


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## Graham Watkin

mrrstrat said:


> OK: I just read some crap about EVH tuned his low E flat and his B flat so it had some novel sound because of lots of theory on harmonics.
> 
> So its Eflat-A-D-G-Bflat-E...Wouldnt that sound like a kick in the nuts? I mean I do play 2nd degree intervals on the G and B string to be obnoxious and irritate bandmates, but this tuning is something else.
> 
> Is this him BS'ing and protecting his tone (similar to how Robin Trowler would protect his tone)?
> 
> I basically grew up playing guitar and never heard of this - whats the truth and whats BS?





mrrstrat said:


> OK: I just read some crap about EVH tuned his low E flat and his B flat so it had some novel sound because of lots of theory on harmonics.
> 
> So its Eflat-A-D-G-Bflat-E...Wouldnt that sound like a kick in the nuts? I mean I do play 2nd degree intervals on the G and B string to be obnoxious and irritate bandmates, but this tuning is something else.
> 
> Is this him BS'ing and protecting his tone (similar to how Robin Trowler would protect his tone)?
> 
> I basically grew up playing guitar and never heard of this - whats the truth and whats BS?


Eddie often tuned All his strings flat.


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## Graham Watkin

mrrstrat said:


> OK: I just read some crap about EVH tuned his low E flat and his B flat so it had some novel sound because of lots of theory on harmonics.
> 
> So its Eflat-A-D-G-Bflat-E...Wouldnt that sound like a kick in the nuts? I mean I do play 2nd degree intervals on the G and B string to be obnoxious and irritate bandmates, but this tuning is something else.
> 
> Is this him BS'ing and protecting his tone (similar to how Robin Trowler would protect his tone)?
> 
> I basically grew up playing guitar and never heard of this - whats the truth and whats BS?


Eddie tuned ALL strings flat, except when accompanied by an organ. Then he used standard EADGBe.


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## ricksdisconnected

ed tuned his guitar to itself


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## ibmorjamn

Wycked Lester said:


> I think what they are trying to say is basically this....
> 
> He tuned his b string to be a perfect major 3rd harmony (which is what its supposed to be anyway but will alway be a few 'beats' out of tune) for tunes that he was using alot of 'A' shaped barre chords,....but would then tune, for instance, the B string 1st fret to be a perfect 4th to the G string [again, the way its normally tuned except made the 4th intervel beatless.
> 
> In other words- you can never have these two notes ......
> 
> ------------------
> ------2------------
> ------2-------------
> -----------------
> -----------------
> ----------------
> 
> to be in PERFECT tune at the same time that these two notes are in perfect tune
> 
> --------------
> ------3--------
> ------2---------
> ---------------
> ----------------
> ---------------
> 
> so he would tune whichever one the song mainly required, to be beatless, or 'perfect'


I posted a thread about and it to eludes to the B, G tuning problem Eddie and anyone will notice A440 is not a perfect solution, Ed knew it. Wikipedia is maintained by whoever has info. It may or may not be correct. You are free to correct things if you have the correct info from my limited understanding.


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## ibmorjamn

*Why Guitars Are Hard To Tune*



...How do we tune our guitars, why they are so hard to keep in tune, and what does it mean to be in tune?

_I went to see the acoustic super-group *Goat Rodeo*, consisting of Edgar Meyer (bass & piano), Stuart Duncan (fiddle), Chris Thile (mandolin, fiddle & guitar) and Yo Yo Ma (cello). They are all astounding musicians, and their repertoire for this group is very complex instrumental “chamber music,” mostly things they created for their group. When Thile played the guitar on one song, it was quite out of tune. It was the only thing in the entire evening that wasn’t in tune, and it jumped out and got me thinking about why the guitar always seems to be the instrument that's least in tune. Thile seems to be a reincarnation of Mozart, so I couldn’t blame him for not knowing better. I also know there was nothing wrong with the guitar, since they made a point to tell us that it was an Olson guitar (one of the most respected modern luthiers) that was borrowed from James Taylor. _

All of us have likely seen a guitar player wrestling with being out of tune, though I suspect that few of us know the surprising number of non-obvious reasons why this happens. Tuning is actually a very complex subject, and not just a matter of the musician being incompetent, drunk, careless or tired. Since I have never seen a thorough and detailed discussion of why the subject is so complicated, I’m going to offer one here, and I apologize up front if it's more than you wanted to know.

Now that electronic tuners are so inexpensive and accurate, it can be argued that there is no longer any need for anyone to learn anything about how to get in tune, or to even bother to understand the surprising complexity that underlies the seemingly routine act of tuning. I started playing guitar before there were electronic tuners, and the first thing to learn was how to get in tune. Fifty years later I'm still learning how.

*Tuning is one of those disciplines where science and art meet head-on, and neither is supreme. *Only a few people are trusted to tune the pianos of the great pianists, and though electronic equipment has drastically improved, the methods of tuning used at the highest levels of music require human judgement and decisions to be made that are beyond the realm of just measurement and science. You could tune a piano to a stroboscope- but few good pianists would enjoy playing it. The whole idea of what it means to be “in tune” is foggier and more imprecise than bystanders or beginners might imagine. Varying cultures of the world also have different ideas of what it means to be in tune, and the history of musical pitch is itself an extremely interesting and convoluted subject. Personal taste is even a factor. A certain old bluesman’s guitar always sounds out of tune to me on his recordings, but he reportedly liked it that way and would “fix” it when someone tried to “tune” it when he wasn’t looking. Maybe if we understand what underlies the seemingly simple act of tuning we might feel better or blame themselves less next time we are struggling to get in tune. 

*One set of issues in guitar tuning involve the physical things like the strings, the instrument and the environment. A second set of concerns involve human issues of hearing and judgement, and there is a third and very mysterious set of issues that involve the music itself.* I have never seen a guitar instruction resource anywhere that even started to go down this slippery slope, and they all just say "tune your guitar" as if it was a simple and straightforward thing. It can be the simple act it seems to be, though bubbling just below the surface are a startling number of mysterious issues. Not only is the tuning of musical instruments scientifically complex, but the social and political questions appear immediately about who is in charge of tuning and who notices or fixes it if something is determined to be out of tune. There aren’t any “tuning police,” and I have told students and audiences for years that the worse ear you have, the more music you can enjoy.


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## Eddie S

Wycked Lester said:


> because that way your 'A' chord and your 'D' chord would both be equally -a little out of tune-.
> 
> So like on a tune like Runnin WT Devil,...all those chords would have a major 3rd that was a hair sharp. ...which sounds fucked up because the major 3rd interval is VERY unforgiving,...its either on or it sounds way off....the 4th interval is not nearly as finicky
> 
> What he probably did, as do many others,...me included ,...is flatten the B string a hair to sweeten the major 3 harmony in the "A" shaped chords, then you learn to bend the "D" shaped chords in tune.
> 
> Its splitting hairs, but it does make you chords a little 'sweeter'


Great explanation, brother. I believe...if one goes back a bit...James Taylor referred to these tunings as "sweetened" tunings. Tuning the guitar...your guitar...to itself. Basically


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## ibmorjamn

Eddie S said:


> Great explanation, brother. I believe...if one goes back a bit...James Taylor referred to these tunings as "sweetened" tunings. Tuning the guitar...your guitar...to itself. Basically


Yes I posted a Thread a week ago , Back to the Future of tuning.


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## ricksdisconnected

Eddie S said:


> Great explanation, brother. I believe...if one goes back a bit...James Taylor referred to these tunings as "sweetened" tunings. Tuning the guitar...your guitar...to itself. Basically




i mentioned that above with no results lol.


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## Eddie S

ibmorjamn said:


> Yes I posted a Thread a week ago , Back to the Future of tuning.


Very cool! I will give it a look soon...


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## Eddie S

ricksdisconnected said:


> i mentioned that above with no results lol.


Sorry, Rick...I just missed it. I'm new, that's my story...and I'm sticking to it!


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## ricksdisconnected

Eddie S said:


> Sorry, Rick...I just missed it. I'm new, that's my story...and I'm sticking to it!




lol your good. i was just saying it went overlooked by the masses.


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