# The Official Marshall DSL40c Information Thread



## Micky

Index to this thread here:

Side Handle Photos: The Official Marshall DSL40c Information Thread
Gut Shot Photos: The Official Marshall DSL40c Information Thread
C19 Cap Mod Photos: The Official Marshall DSL40c Information Thread
ClassicTone OT Replacement: http://www.marshallforum.com/index....nformation-thread.53780/page-146#post-1232202
NOS Preamp Tubes & Photos: The Official Marshall DSL40c Information Thread

Feel free to post your mods & other DSL40c related content here.
This thread is for others to reference when looking for vital info.

Many of these posts should be relavent to the DSL100h as well as the DSL15, as all the newer DSL amps now share many common features & components. For example, the DSL100h uses the same chassis and internal board and components of the DSL40c, except it has 2 more output tubes as well as the extra related components.

I will start with a couple of photos in this thread, and add more photos in other posts as I don't want each post to be too 'pic-heavy'. If anyone has any requests for photos of specific components or areas of the 40c please let me know and I will shoot them next time I pull the chassis from the case.

I would also like to link all the other DSL40c threads here, as they contain some great posts as well as a lot of good information. Feel free to add whatever you want as long as it is related.

First I would like to state that I am NOT a great guitar player, and I WON'T be posting any clips. Although I used to play in a cover band back in the late '70s, my skill has not kept up with the times. Others are much more talented here and I am sure there will be a few to offer some demos. What I WILL post here is some relavent info, and a bunch of photos. So here goes.

The DSL40c is Marshalls newest DSL, along with the DSL100h head version and the DSL15h and DSL15c. These amps are made in Vietnam. Before you start to poo-poo this new line for being made overseas, rest assured these are built to Marshalls specifications. In my opinion, they are made as well, if not better than anything made in the UK or even in the USA. The boards inside appear to be wave-soldered hi-quality PC boards, and the components are well-spaced and symmetric.

The case appears to be HDF, not MDF. It seems much tougher and harder than MDF, although it is still not birch ply. Personally I don't think it matters much, I have seen ply crushed as easily as anything else, but the true test will be over time. I got a good look when I cut the sides of the case open for some new handles.

Yes, I have already drilled and cut the case, one of the first mods so far. Many of you wil notice this amp doesn't have any side handles, and because I am getting a bit older (and a bit wiser as well) I felt I needed to add some decent metal handles. It will allow for two people to carry the amp as well as allow easier placing of the amp on top of another cab. With the speaker replacement, this amp now weighs 55 pounds, and I feel that is a bit much for the top handle alone.

Here is a photo of the installed handles:





You need to measure VERY carefully, as one might have a tendency to want to mount the handles high, near the top. The particular metal handles I uses have a bit of depth to them, I mounted them so the PT and OT clear them by about 1/4 inch. I can provide dimensions if anyone needs them.

Gut shots and other info to follow...


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## Micky

Here are some gut shots of my DSL40c.
Again, if anyone has any requests for specific photos let me know.
Here is a shot of the bias trimpots:





Here is a shot of the bias test connector.
Remember, when checking/setting the bias, the left trimpot adjusts the right test point...





I finally got the bias evened out at 38.xx and all seems very stable:





I will post more as time permits...


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## trovador

Great idea. Thanks for sharing. I love my dsl40c. I've swapped the speakers for a V30 and unsoldered the c12 cap on the od2 channel to eliminate some of the brightness. These were not essential, but made it more to my liking...


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## Micky

Yeah, actually the very first mod I did was remove the rear-loaded Celestion Seventy-Eighty and replace it with an Eminence Texas Heat. As I said in another thread, it was a win-win, as the SF Princeton Reverb LOVES the Celestion, and the Texas Heat adds a bit of low thump that the semi-open back DSL40c needs.

C12 mod? Are you sure you don't mean C19 for the OD2 mode?


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## trovador

Micky said:


> Yeah, actually the very first mod I did was remove the rear-loaded Celestion Seventy-Eighty and replace it with an Eminence Texas Heat. As I said in another thread, it was a win-win, as the SF Princeton Reverb LOVES the Celestion, and the Texas Heat adds a bit of low thump that the semi-open back DSL40c needs.
> 
> C12 mod? Are you sure you don't mean C19 for the OD2 mode?



Yep, that's it.


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## Micky

To remove the C19 cap makes all the difference in the world!
The OD2 mode on the 2nd channel was pretty much unusable for me as it came from the factory. It may be fine for some as it is stock, but I can only imagine extreme metal being played on hi-gain pointy guitars by angry young punks. (no disrespect) Lots of gain is putting it mildly...

It is a pretty easy mod, I did it without removing the main PC board. Here is a photo:





I basically just touched a lo-powered soldering pencil (33 watts) to one leg and pried up the cap. It will be easy to return it to stock if needed. Here is another photo:





The OD2 mode on the Ultra Gain channel is now my go-to mode for a boost even though I don't play lead. It has a ballsy feel to it now rather than a fizzy buzz.


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## DirtySteve

Micky the handles look great! You might be interested to know that the more I play mine the better it sounds and I'm going to have a hard time letting it go. I know I know, but damn!...it does sound good and besides, I'm used to eating my words by now.  we'll see. If I do keep it I'm going to try some of these mods.

Here are some shots inside the 40c cab if anyone's interested...


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## Micky

Nice shots Steve! And I know now why you want to keep it...
If you can justify it, keep it in the collection. I know mine fits a spot that had been empty for a while, I wanted an all-in-one combo that could first, fit in the small car I have, and second, have enough punch and versatility I could use it without a pedal if needed.
No regrets in eating your words, you were smart enough to grab one in the first place.
If you had sold it to me, you certainly would have regretted it!
Here are some more random shots similar to yours, please forgive the out-of-focus stuff...


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## flashtilley

Micky said:


> Remember, when checking/setting the bias, the left trimpot adjusts the right test point...




Yup, I learnt that the hard way when adjusting my new DSL100H.


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## Rocktane

Micky said:


> Remember, when checking/setting the bias, the left trimpot adjusts the right test point...





flashtilley said:


> Yup, I learnt that the hard way when adjusting my new DSL100H.



Didn't happen to me, nope. I am, of course, lying my ass off!


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## Micky

Hey! you guys should post some stuff here too!
I wanna post links to all the other threads here, might as well combine them onto one huge post. This isn't my thread, it is for everyone. Don't be shy, post some DSL40c info here. We could use some demos, links to other videos, photos, threads on other sites, etc.
Don't be shy, post it up!


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## solarburn

Micky said:


> To remove the C19 cap makes all the difference in the world!
> The OD2 mode on the 2nd channel was pretty much unusable for me as it came from the factory. It may be fine for some as it is stock, but I can only imagine extreme metal being played on hi-gain pointy guitars by angry young punks. (no disrespect) Lots of gain is putting it mildly...
> 
> It is a pretty easy mod, I did it without removing the main PC board. Here is a photo:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I basically just touched a lo-powered soldering pencil (33 watts) to one leg and pried up the cap. It will be easy to return it to stock if needed. Here is another photo:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The OD2 mode on the Ultra Gain channel is now my go-to mode for a boost even though I don't play lead. It has a ballsy feel to it now rather than a fizzy buzz.



That's pretty cool and nice pics too!


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## Micky

Thanks SB. This kind of stuff comes really easy for me, and if I can help others it gives me a great sense of pride. The pix are shot with an older Nikon L100, it has a nice Macro mode that allows for some good, but not great close-up photos.

I have been tempted to get the big Nikon out, but haven't really had the need since this little camera does an adequate job. Maybe next time I pull the chassis I will do a little better...

Here are some shots of some other areas of the main board:





Here is the DSP/Reverb board:


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## flashtilley

Has anyone experimented with different preamp tubes in these?


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## Micky

I think Steve has rolled a few.
Now that I have a baseline, I have a couple old Sylvania and RCA I wanna try.


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## Rocktane

I have an NOS Sylvania in V1 and I like it. Used have one in V2 as well but in went tits up. I'm looking to try some other NOS preamp tubes as soon as I can.


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## Micky

I will need to order a spare set of power tubes, other than JJ EL34's is there another I should be looking at? I am not interested in exotic stuff, this is a players amp and will be used and abused...


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## caiokiss

Micky said:


> Hey! you guys should post some stuff here too!
> I wanna post links to all the other threads here, might as well combine them onto one huge post. This isn't my thread, it is for everyone. Don't be shy, post some DSL40c info here. We could use some demos, links to other videos, photos, threads on other sites, etc.
> Don't be shy, post it up!



I've posted a few clips in the other thread. Since the idea is to combine all information in this one, here are the links again:

The guitar is a Gibson Les Paul Studio with Burstbuckers Pro. The amp is in the half-power mode and at bedroom levels.

Just a few riffs:
http://www.soundclick.com/player/sin...=12114192&q=hi


Using backingtracks:

Clean:
http://www.soundclick.com/player/sin...=12136081&q=hi

Classic Gain - Clean mode
Gain - 6 (7 on the solo)
Treble - 3
Mid - 4
Bass - 6
Tone shift - out
Presence - 6
Resonance - 6

Low Gain:
http://www.soundclick.com/player/sin...=12119484&q=hi

Classic Gain - Crunch mode
Gain - 6
Treble - 5
Mid - 7
Bass - 2
Tone shift - out
Presence - 5
Resonance - 3

Mid Gain:
http://www.soundclick.com/player/sin...=12119493&q=hi

Ultra Gain - Lead 1 mode
Gain - 4
Treble - 2
Mid - 5
Bass - 5
Tone Shift - out
Presesnce - 5
Resonance - 5

High Gain
http://www.soundclick.com/player/sin...=12121758&q=hi

Ultra Gain - Lead 2 mode
Gain - 8
Treble - 7
Mid - 4
Bass - 4
Tone Shift - in
Presence - 7
Resonance - 8


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## DirtySteve

Yes, I rolled some NOS pres when I first got it, but I have the stock tubes back in it now and I think it sounds better. The tubes were part of reason it was so bright. Another is I think is the speaker settling in and smoothing out.


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## Micky

Here are some links to other threads concerning the DSL40c:
Old Links Used To Be Here...
(no longer working with the new forum software...)

These are just selected threads from over 5 pages of search results.
If this isn't enough reading for you, then go join Harmony Central.


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## solarburn

Micky said:


> I will need to order a spare set of power tubes, other than JJ EL34's is there another I should be looking at? I am not interested in exotic stuff, this is a players amp and will be used and abused...



If you want tight lows good mids with restrained highs get the JJ34L's. if you want rich warm mids with musical highs get GT 34M's. if you want more of a raw open articulate bestial amp get EH6CA7's. These 3 are all I care to use in my EL34 amps. Each gets me a different characteristic and yes it's noticeable when volume is given.


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## Rocktane

I am contemplating the C19 bright cap mod. First, I'm going to wait until my greenbacks arrive and see how it is with them in the mix. Second, how feasible would it be to make the bright cap switchable (on/off)? Seems like it would be pretty simple but I am no tech.


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## Micky

Rocktane said:


> I am contemplating the C19 bright cap mod. First, I'm going to wait until my greenbacks arrive and see how it is with them in the mix. Second, how feasible would it be to make the bright cap switchable (on/off)? Seems like it would be pretty simple but I am no tech.



Either you will like it or you won't. No need to go thru the trouble of mounting a switch. It is easily reversible if you don't like it.

For me it made OD2 usable.


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## Dizzyg12

Micky said:


> Either you will like it or you won't. No need to go thru the trouble of mounting a switch. It is easily reversible if you don't like it.
> 
> For me it made OD2 usable.




Did you happen to do any before and after sound clips. I'm going to order one of these tonight. I can't hold out any longer lol. Looks like an easy mod should I need to go that route, but I've liked everything I've heard from it when demoing it to this point.


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## Micky

No, I don't do demos. I think from all the links above you might find one though.
I think johnnyeggz may have modded his 15 h similarly. He has clips.


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## Dizzyg12

Oh and why does only one of the preamp tubes have the vibration ring?


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## Micky

V1 has a grommet/ring to reduce microphonic vibration pickup.
Combos tend to do this at times.
Some use a properly sized o-ring.


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## Dizzyg12

Cool thanks mick! I went ahead and ordered one. Got a great deal on it. GC gave me 15% off and then I traded in an old valvestate and a crate I had lying around so i was close to $400 for it. quite a steal! Hate having to wait for it to get to the store....Friday hopefully!


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## Sournote

caiokiss said:


> I've posted a few clips in the other thread. Since the idea is to combine all information in this one, here are the links again:
> 
> The guitar is a Gibson Les Paul Studio with Burstbuckers Pro. The amp is in the half-power mode and at bedroom levels.
> 
> snip...


 
caiokiss, First, Great playing. Second is your DSL40c stock?

I've been thinking about putting a V30 in mine, but after hearing your clips think the "problem" is my fingers. I think I'll keep my money in my pocket and see if practice doesn't help. With the range of tones you demoed, it beats me how anyone can say this amp sounds bad even in stock form.

I'll probably end up selling my Classic 30 to fund a 5 or so watt head, so may get a V30 cab along with that to check out with the DSL, that is unless I go crazy and spring for an SL5.


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## flashtilley

Rocktane said:


> I am contemplating the C19 bright cap mod. First, I'm going to wait until my greenbacks arrive and see how it is with them in the mix. Second, how feasible would it be to make the bright cap switchable (on/off)? Seems like it would be pretty simple but I am no tech.


 

I haven't done the mod yet.. still contemplating as well. Let us know how you like it when its done, especially at higher stage volumes. Thanks!


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## caiokiss

Sournote said:


> caiokiss, First, Great playing. Second is your DSL40c stock?
> 
> I've been thinking about putting a V30 in mine, but after hearing your clips think the "problem" is my fingers. I think I'll keep my money in my pocket and see if practice doesn't help. With the range of tones you demoed, it beats me how anyone can say this amp sounds bad even in stock form.
> 
> I'll probably end up selling my Classic 30 to fund a 5 or so watt head, so may get a V30 cab along with that to check out with the DSL, that is unless I go crazy and spring for an SL5.



Thanks!

Yes, it is 100% stock. Even the tubes are stock.

I'll probably try new tubes soon, but I don't think I'll change the speaker (good speakers are very expensive here). As for the C19 mod, it sounds interesting, maybe I'll try someday, but for now I think it's fine like it is, I just roll off the tone knob of the guitar a little bit.


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## Dizzyg12

caiokiss said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Yes, it is 100% stock. Even the tubes are stock.
> 
> I'll probably try new tubes soon, but I don't think I'll change the speaker (good speakers are very expensive here). As for the C19 mod, it sounds interesting, maybe I'll try someday, but for now I think it's fine like it is, I just roll off the tone knob of the guitar a little bit.



I thought those extra knobs on the lp were just decorative. Mind blown!


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## DirtySteve

Dizzyg12 said:


> Cool thanks mick! I went ahead and ordered one. Got a great deal on it. GC gave me 15% off and then I traded in an old valvestate and a crate I had lying around so i was close to $400 for it. quite a steal! Hate having to wait for it to get to the store....Friday hopefully!



When I ordered mine from GC it took 2 days for them to get it in. They're usually pretty quick about getting orders in.


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## Dizzyg12

DirtySteve said:


> When I ordered mine from GC it took 2 days for them to get it in. They're usually pretty quick about getting orders in.



Yup it shipped already, the next day actually. I got the last one at the distribution center. I'm checking the tracking info hourly. Lol, nothing update yet though.


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## Micky

Mine got here in 4 days.
The mixer I ordered with it was backordered for 2 weeks...


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## caiokiss

Anyone here tryed an attenuator with the amp? Does it really makes a difference?

I'm thinking about one of those cheap resistive attenuators fom Ebay (Speaker Soak, Little Sucker, Power Plug). Anyone know any of these?


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## Sournote

caiokiss said:


> Anyone here tryed an attenuator with the amp? Does it really makes a difference?
> 
> I'm thinking about one of those cheap resistive attenuators fom Ebay (Speaker Soak, Little Sucker, Power Plug). Anyone know any of these?



With my limited knowledge of electronics (1 year in an EE course at a Technical College) I'd be worried about how these devices would interact with the amp.

That power has to go somewhere, and its gonna produce heat. I'm not convinced the power soak device would be the only place where the increased resistance would cause increased heat build up. I think there would be some increased heat in the internal components of the amp and that it would inevitably shorten the life of the amps components.

Just a theory, but I'll be sticking with it.


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## Dizzyg12

DirtySteve said:


> Micky the handles look great! You might be interested to know that the more I play mine the better it sounds and I'm going to have a hard time letting it go. I know I know, but damn!...it does sound good and besides, I'm used to eating my words by now.  we'll see. If I do keep it I'm going to try some of these mods.
> 
> Here are some shots inside the 40c cab if anyone's interested...



Is that rust on the transformers? Is that normal? Any issues with that?


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## Dizzyg12

In route! End of day Tuesday.....gonna be a long weekend. Lol

Anyone find covers for these yet?


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## Micky

Dizzyg12 said:


> Is that rust on the transformers? Is that normal? Any issues with that?


It is not rust, but some sort of varnish or other coating applied to seal the trannys and protect it from stuff like rust.


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## Dizzyg12

Micky said:


> It is not rust, but some sort of varnish or other coating applied to seal the trannys and protect it from stuff like rust.



Cool, good to know!


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## Sheartab

caiokiss said:


> Ultra Gain - Lead 1 mode
> Gain - 4
> Treble - 2
> Mid - 5
> Bass - 5
> Tone Shift - out
> Presesnce - 5
> Resonance - 5
> 
> High Gain
> http://www.soundclick.com/player/sin...=12121758&q=hi
> 
> Ultra Gain - Lead 2 mode
> Gain - 8
> Treble - 7
> Mid - 4
> Bass - 4
> Tone Shift - in
> Presence - 7
> Resonance - 8




Thanks for that post, I liked that sound alot when i tried it!


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## Micky

Sheartab - How you enjoying this beast so far?


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## Sheartab

Micky, its been a riot. I just need my wife to leave the house more!. I have only been able to open her up the last 2 nights and I've had it for more than a week. Definitely better when its pushed. I'm running the 20 watts at home and I doubt it will see 40 in the house. Far better than my previous amp. The low end can shake this place. It's true, new gear makes you wanna pick up the axe more and go to town.


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## Sheartab

FYI. I have a Zack Wylde wah pedal and its far better running into the amp than in the loop. I tried the loop for some experimentation and thought it was horrid. Very muffled.


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## Ttepper

Just installed a high tec cooling fan solution to my new DSL40C


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## Ttepper

By the way, loving the new amp. Seems well built, sounds great, and didn't cost a fortune. I have an older JCM-2000 DSL 100 head and wanted the same sound but in a more portable platform. Couldn't be happier so far.


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## DirtySteve

If you guys really want to hear some ''magic", plug in one of these!


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## snshami

Here's a link to a post reviewing and comparing it to a Blackstar HT40 and my first few days with it.

http://www.marshallforum.com/marshall-amps/54049-marshall-dsl-40c-vs-blackstar-ht-40-my-perspective.html


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## Sournote

DirtySteve said:


> If you guys really want to hear some ''magic", plug in one of these!


I ran into a guy checking that pedal out through a DSL40C at GC a few weeks ago. 

Sounded pretty awesome, but then again, so did the '78 Custom Badass he was comparing against and it was only about 1/2 the price of the bb pre. It would be a tough call for me to choose between the two looking at bang for the buck.


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## DirtySteve

I had a 78 Badass and to me they're 2 different animals. The Badass is a distortion pedal, the BB is a boost/OD. I didn't have my DSL when I had the '78 though so I don't know what it's like with the DSL. I also like the MXR Classic OD as my second choice.


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## Ttepper

To all, check your bias and check it often. Got my 40C new yesterday, tested it tonight. One tube was 41mA and the other at 42mA - too hot for a plate voltage of 450V. Brought them down to 35mA and the amp runs much cooler. I have not had a chance to really crank it yet, so I can't comment on whether a few millivolts made any measurable tonal difference. Cheers.


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## paradox

Sournote said:


> .....With the range of tones you demoed, it beats me how anyone can say this amp sounds bad even in stock form.....



I agree, to me this amps sounds pretty damn good straight out of the box. After using it around the house and at several jams at cranked volumes I still love it, but I am ready to see if I can get a little more out of it with some tweaks. 

I really wanted to give the stock speaker some time to settle, but I have given up on it. I wanted to buy a new celestion, either G12T-75 or V30 for the amp, however, I had a 16ohm WGS Retro 30 hanging around from another project that never got of the ground. This past weekend, I did the following:
1. Replaced stock with the WGS Retro 30 speaker.
2. My bias was low compared to some other measurements listed on this site (out of the box I measured 34.0 and 35.2 ma). My plate voltage reads 452v, so I went for 38.5ma on each tube. This is biased at %70 for a 25watt rating on each EL-34 - interesting that I believe I'm biasing it as if its 50watter.
3. I put Ruby 12AX7AC7HG (Shuguang) tubes in V1 and V2.

Since I did a lot at once, I have some little improvement from each element. The speaker swap is probably the most noticable. I played the amp for about an hour at cranked levels prior to the changes (was great everyone was out saturday!), I then played about an hour or so after. Again, I think this amps sounds great out of the box, but I also think I'm liking the changes (esp speaker) - I think the clean channel seems a bit more lively with better bottom end and the od maintained its crushing tone but has become fuller and a little more 'musical' if that term works. I think I don't have much more left to tweak, I'm very happy with this amp but there is one last change I'd like to try.
I believe the stock power tubes are Sino EL-34-Bs. Can anyone else comfirm this? I'm basing that on the bottle shape, plate shape and base color.
I would like to know if anyone has tried Winged C or other EL-34s and where that took them..


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## flashtilley

paradox said:


> I agree, to me this amps sounds pretty damn good straight out of the box. After using it around the house and at several jams at cranked volumes I still love it, but I am ready to see if I can get a little more out of it with some tweaks.
> 
> I really wanted to give the stock speaker some time to settle, but I have given up on it. I wanted to buy a new celestion, either G12T-75 or V30 for the amp, however, I had a 16ohm WGS Retro 30 hanging around from another project that never got of the ground. This past weekend, I did the following:
> 1. Replaced stock with the WGS Retro 30 speaker.
> 2. My bias was low compared to some other measurements listed on this site (out of the box I measured 34.0 and 35.2 ma). My plate voltage reads 452v, so I went for 38.5ma on each tube. This is biased at %70 for a 25watt rating on each EL-34 - interesting that I believe I'm biasing it as if its 50watter.
> 3. I put Ruby 12AX7AC7HG (Shuguang) tubes in V1 and V2.
> 
> Since I did a lot at once, I have some little improvement from each element. The speaker swap is probably the most noticable. I played the amp for about an hour at cranked levels prior to the changes (was great everyone was out saturday!), I then played about an hour or so after. Again, I think this amps sounds great out of the box, but I also think I'm liking the changes (esp speaker) - I think the clean channel seems a bit more lively with better bottom end and the od maintained its crushing tone but has become fuller and a little more 'musical' if that term works. I think I don't have much more left to tweak, I'm very happy with this amp but there is one last change I'd like to try.
> I believe the stock power tubes are Sino EL-34-Bs. Can anyone else comfirm this? I'm basing that on the bottle shape, plate shape and base color.
> I would like to know if anyone has tried Winged C or other EL-34s and where that took them..





I did the C19 mod on mine today and wow!! The lead 2 on the red channel is useable now and sounds great. Before I was only using the green channel with gain maxed and a tubescreamer. Now I use green for sparkly cleans and the red channel for my dirt. The mod makes the gain more useable. It will not go back to stock after hearing this. I have the 100H but the same mod applies to both - same board.


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## Micky

flashtilley said:


> I did the C19 mod on mine today and wow!! The lead 2 on the red channel is useable now and sounds great. Before I was only using the green channel with gain maxed and a tubescreamer. Now I use green for sparkly cleans and the red channel for my dirt. The mod makes the gain more useable. It will not go back to stock after hearing this. I have the 100H but the same mod applies to both - same board.



Who needs pedals...


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## strathaze

Dizzyg12 said:


> Is that rust on the transformers? Is that normal? Any issues with that?



The ironcore of a transformer is made of sheet steel coated with an electrical insulating material. It comes as big coils, like toilet paper if you will. When it is stamped to make the laminations that make up the ironcore, the edges are exposed to the elements, hence the surface rust. It's completely harmless. Sometimes the manufacturer will VPI (vacuum pressure impregnate) the whole thing in a varnish tank, sometimes just the windings themselves. Looking at my DSL40C, ours are the former type although they have been wiped down prior to being baked in an oven.


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## Micky

As I have stated previously, there is a reddish varnish coating on the xfmrs that may appear as something else. Strat is correct, sometimes even this oxidation is covered by the varnish giving even more of a reddish color.

Also warm lights tend to give false colors when taking photos.


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## ibmorjamn

I got my hands on a G12t-100 however it is 8 ohms. So rather than putting in the combo I put it in the 4x12 (running 2 speakers) with another 8 ohm Celestion G12M -75. I got the speaker new for $75.
It sounds so much better than 70/80 and it's not yet broken in.
I will have to get a new 16ohm to put in the cabinet and a 2x12 cab.
I have never biased any circuit so I will have to read this re-thread when I bias it.


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## paradox

Micky said:


> I will need to order a spare set of power tubes, other than JJ EL34's is there another I should be looking at? I am not interested in exotic stuff, this is a players amp and will be used and abused...



Micky, I asked just a few post ago and had missed your post - did you try another brand of EL-34s in there? Mines sounding pretty good right now but I will be curious in the future to try a different brand EL-34. I am still thinking the stock tubes are Sino EL-34Bs which are noted by most sites as 'budget' EL-34s being had for less than $15 each. If thats true, these budget tubes sound pretty good to me, but I will try tweaking with out spending too much. It appears the Winged C's get a lot of good reviews, but they come at a cost I'm not going to dish out yet on this amp, I did run across this sites notes on the Svetlana (yes for the real cork sniffers the 'wrong Svetlana' ) but they do give these a thumbs up for our application noting the diffs between them and Winged Cs:

www.thetubestore.com - Svetlana EL34 Audio Tubes


----------



## EndGame00

Though I have the DSL15C and somewhat becoming disappointed in the beginning with the "ultra gain" channel.... Boy, I was wrong! It took some major EQ-ing and keep it under 7.5 watts, I was finding the sweet spots compare to the full power setting of the amp.... I'm keeping it stock.

Tone-wise, I was able to find close to Rudolf Schenker's tone on Savage Amusement album.. even at lower volume, it is still there.... Or Death Angel's "Act III" tone.

For this, I shall never question the mythos of Jim Marshall as long as I live.


----------



## Micky

paradox said:


> Micky, I asked just a few post ago and had missed your post - did you try another brand of EL-34s in there? Mines sounding pretty good right now but I will be curious in the future to try a different brand EL-34. I am still thinking the stock tubes are Sino EL-34Bs which are noted by most sites as 'budget' EL-34s being had for less than $15 each. If thats true, these budget tubes sound pretty good to me, but I will try tweaking with out spending too much. It appears the Winged C's get a lot of good reviews, but they come at a cost I'm not going to dish out yet on this amp, I did run across this sites notes on the Svetlana (yes for the real cork sniffers the 'wrong Svetlana' ) but they do give these a thumbs up for our application noting the diffs between them and Winged Cs:
> 
> www.thetubestore.com - Svetlana EL34 Audio Tubes



I am still crunching away on the original EL34's, I also admit they sound pretty damn good for OEM cheap stuff.

I figured I had better go slow as far as changes go, a little at a time will allow me to see the subtle differences each change will make. And I mean SUBTLE, the only thing that showed a marked difference was lifting C19, OD2 is creamy clear now, rather than freakey fizzy.

Even swapping out the 70/80 for an Eminence Texas Heat was a subtle change, all it did was add a bit of low end and clarity the original (not broken in) speaker lacked.

I wanna grab some JJ EL34's and probably some Svetlana's as well. A lot of people don't know about the original Svetlana factory, and how the new ones these days aren't much more than re-brnded Chinese stuff. The old days are gone. Fortunately I was smart enough to grab some 572B's for my Ham Radio amp, they have the graphite innards and are built for horizontal mounting. That is the good shit right there.

I am thinking there won't be a lot of difference, especially at volume. It will be interesting to use half-power mode and see what shakes there, I have been using it a bit at home late at night, but honestly, I can use full power and just decrease the volume and increase the gain and get similar results at bedroom levels. I play along with the stereo, and it is so underpowered I need to pump it into the PA to keep up at gigging levels.

Personally I am getting sick of pulling the chassis all the time, I am in the 'leave it alone for a while' mode as of late. I do actually need to pull it and get some decent macro shots with the big camera, but I may wait until I install a new set of power tubes and need to re-bias. I also wanna connect up the scope to observe a few test points for reference. Should be easy to balance/re-bias with that...


----------



## paradox

Micky said:


> .......Personally I am getting sick of pulling the chassis all the time, I am in the 'leave it alone for a while' mode as of late. I do actually need to pull it and get some decent macro shots with the big camera, but I may wait until I install a new set of power tubes and need to re-bias. I also wanna connect up the scope to observe a few test points for reference. Should be easy to balance/re-bias with that...



I hear ya, I've had mine out 2 or 3 times just to read the bias levels and check plate voltage and this past weekend to adjust the bias up a bit. Its not that bad of a chassis to pull, but doing it several times gets old..lol.
I believe the new 'Svetlana USA' are made in the Reflector Factory (same as CP Sovtek, EH, Mullard Reissue, Tung Sol etc). 
I was just curious if you had tried another brand as I did find these were chinese. I don't have anything against chinese tubes and typically like them in Marshall preamps, this is just the first time I've seen chinese power tubes so I'm curious.
I'm right where you are, happy with it and wanting to just play as is, but I will eventually grab some spare power tubes and just wondered what has been tried and the results. If the new Svets are Reflector, I'm thinking they will be close to EH, Sovtek, Reissue Mullard, etc - but the plates and internals look a little different in pics. I would have trouble dishing out the cash for the Winged C (SED) unless someone could tell me what I would gain (no pun intended).

EDIT: Its actually the Winged C (SED) that have different looking internals, the Svets, EH, MRI, Sovtek are probably all the same part. The shop by manufacturer tab on websites should just have one or two entries!


----------



## Micky

Marty and Alan are the go-to guys as far as tubes go, they have forgotten more about tubes than I will ever know.

Thing of it is, I am playing this 40c full time now, even though at 55 lbs. it is a beast to carry around. It is gonna get beat to death... So, I know I am gonna go thru these OEM tubes sooner than later. It will be neat to see how long they last.

I will bet that preamp tubes will have more of a difference than power tubes will though.


----------



## paradox

Micky said:


> ...even though at 55 lbs...



My guess is they got a tad heaver after the speaker swaps too...

Speaking of carrying them around, I really want to get a cover for mine. I have one for my DSL and liked having it to just protect it during transport preventing tolex tears and grill accidents. I may spring for one of these rather then extra tubes first. I did just see a thread around here about covers for these.


----------



## Micky

Yeah, I measured 55 after the swap. The Eminence is a hefty 11 lbs.
After all it is a 150 watt speaker. Those magnets aren't light.

I will have to get a custom cover for mine. Side handles aren't standard.


----------



## paradox

Micky said:


> Yeah, I measured 55 after the swap. The Eminence is a hefty 11 lbs.
> After all it is a 150 watt speaker. Those magnets aren't light.
> 
> I will have to get a custom cover for mine. Side handles aren't standard.



Thats right! you were the one that did the side handles. They look great by the way! and practical too! I had been forgetting to order a cover and your post yesterday reminded me. At some point in time I got a 'real' marshall cover for my DSL401 combo which has kept it looking pretty good over the years and wanted to do the same for the new DSL40C. I did pull the trigger on one of those ebay ones yesterday. Currently the marshall DSL40C covers are $65+taxshipping and I didn't need to spend that much to have a logo! - If you ebay one can you cutout the sides for the handles and have the wife sew it?


----------



## MartyStrat54

Micky-What does that 70-80 sound like in an open back application? I'm not a big fan of that speaker. Of course, the DSL401 had a crappy speaker. Most guys replace it with something else. (They should have put a G12-65 in these 40 watt amps.)


----------



## Micky

Thin and kinda fizzy in my opinion, but as I will always say, I am not the best person to ask. I didn't play it a lot in the DSL40c, as I had a Texas Heat just itching to get installed. I needed the bass all the way up, and I know the speaker wasn't 'broken in' but it just didn't agree with that cab. It has excellent mid-range definition, I really liked the sustain/feedback using the OD1/OD2 channel, but it just didn't have the 'thump' I was looking for and got with the Eminence installed. It is like you couldn't really 'feel' the speaker with the DSL. I will bet the 70/80 doesn't have the cone excursion the Eminence has...

Funny thing, I put the 70/80 in my re-worked Princeton Reverb, and I love it. It has some sort of 'presence' or 'depth' I cannot explain. Seems like a very accurate speaker, the SFPR is generally a pretty clean amp till you crank it a bit, but in this open back combo it sounds great.

I will bet the 70/80 would also sound pretty good in a 4X12 closed back cab, possibly even vented like yours. Would be neat to try it, it is inexpensive enough for someone to tackle this task.


----------



## MartyStrat54

Have you tried the Texas Heat by itself? It is commonly paired with a Governor. By itself, I think the Heat is not that punchy on the bottom and it has a warm top end. Eminence says it goes to 4.6KHz, but 4.2KHz is more realistic.

So if you think the 40C is bright, this will work. Otherwise you might be better off with some other choice.


----------



## Dizzyg12

paradox said:


> I hear ya, I've had mine out 2 or 3 times just to read the bias levels and check plate voltage and this past weekend to adjust the bias up a bit. Its not that bad of a chassis to pull, but doing it several times gets old..lol.
> I believe the new 'Svetlana USA' are made in the Reflector Factory (same as CP Sovtek, EH, Mullard Reissue, Tung Sol etc).
> I was just curious if you had tried another brand as I did find these were chinese. I don't have anything against chinese tubes and typically like them in Marshall preamps, this is just the first time I've seen chinese power tubes so I'm curious.
> I'm right where you are, happy with it and wanting to just play as is, but I will eventually grab some spare power tubes and just wondered what has been tried and the results. If the new Svets are Reflector, I'm thinking they will be close to EH, Sovtek, Reissue Mullard, etc - but the plates and internals look a little different in pics. I would have trouble dishing out the cash for the Winged C (SED) unless someone could tell me what I would gain (no pun intended).
> 
> EDIT: Its actually the Winged C (SED) that have different looking internals, the Svets, EH, MRI, Sovtek are probably all the same part. The shop by manufacturer tab on websites should just have one or two entries!



Wanna help us out on a play by play for the bias check? I might wanna check mine at some point, since it seems to be actor topic. Pics and step by step would be awesome!


----------



## saxon68

OK this is my first post here, just got one of these DSL40C amps delivered and all I can say is WoW. It responds to pick attack and guitar volume.

I played in hairbands back in the late 80's early 90's, got married and all that jazz and dropped out till this year. Got the itch again, so I decided to do an AC/DC trib, and started looking for gear. I watched several vids, and decided this was the one for me, I have had tube amps back when, but this one kills em. 

I was thinking I may have to do the cap mod, but after playing it I wont. I don't use that channel anyhow, only channel one crunch and the second channel base setting.

I set everything but the volume to 12 o'clock, gain at about 11 and cranked it, what a joy.

Happy !


----------



## Micky

Saxon - Glad to see you are enjoying your new amp!
With everything set at 12 o'clock it is a pretty good starting point.
Personally I have ventured past that point, except for Resonance and Presence.
I am still experimenting with these, I don't quite know what to expect but I currently have these 2 controls set the same as you, at 12 o'clock.

I am looking forward to what others think of these two controls, and how best to implement them...


----------



## paradox

Dizzyg12 said:


> Wanna help us out on a play by play for the bias check? I might wanna check mine at some point, since it seems to be actor topic. Pics and step by step would be awesome!



Diz - I'll see if I can't put something together. I should have taken pics while doing it, but do have other pics I can probably reference.
It should really have the step in there to check the plate voltage first, because this is needed to calculate the 70% point. In my mind thats the step thats not for the faint of heart and you really have to be careful. I always follow the one hand behind back when probing an amp thats on, but I think I can give step by step that uses clip on probes and moves the probes only with power off. I did notice that when doing mine when, I had the chassis with the front facing me - then you have a left tube and a right tube to measure and "left" and "right" pots to adjust - the "left" pot adjusts the right tube and the "right" pot adjusts the left tube!!


----------



## ibmorjamn

MartyStrat54 said:


> Have you tried the Texas Heat by itself? It is commonly paired with a Governor. By itself, I think the Heat is not that punchy on the bottom and it has a warm top end. Eminence says it goes to 4.6KHz, but 4.2KHz is more realistic.
> 
> So if you think the 40C is bright, this will work. Otherwise you might be better off with some other choice.


Marty I have a Celestion Hot 100 and I think it would have made the perfect speaker for the DSL 40c. I got a 8 ohm cheap so I had to pair it up with a G12M-75 but they sound good. The hot 100 has great bottom end and definition.
I really need to find a new 16ohm but I like not playing a speaker in the combo. Kind of wish it was a 40w head only.


----------



## ucnick

FWIW - I used the my DSL40C with my ABB trib band last Fri night - you can check out the C19-modded sound (both stage volume and from the PA) on this YT video my wife shot: The Allman Step Brothers Perform "In Memory Of Elizabeth Reed"/EJ Phairs/Pittsburg CA/031513 - YouTube - I'm the guy with the Les Paul gold-top and tie-dye tshirt, you can see my DSL40C behind me and to my left. It is stock except for the C19 mod, which I found really helped. It sounds pretty danged good even through the little mic on the camera. My solo starts at 6:49, you can really hear it there. I was using it on half-power mode with volume about 10 o'clock, gain at about the same, red channel and with the gain switch set for high gain. No distortion or boost pedals, just a volume pedal - it sounds great with my gold-top, of course! Guys in the band loved it!


----------



## solarburn

ucnick said:


> FWIW - I used the my DSL40C with my ABB trib band last Fri night - you can check out the C19-modded sound (both stage volume and from the PA) on this YT video my wife shot: The Allman Step Brothers Perform "In Memory Of Elizabeth Reed"/EJ Phairs/Pittsburg CA/031513 - YouTube - I'm the guy with the Les Paul gold-top and tie-dye tshirt, you can see my DSL40C behind me and to my left. It is stock except for the C19 mod, which I found really helped. It sounds pretty danged good even through the little mic on the camera. My solo starts at 6:49, you can really hear it there. I was using it on half-power mode with volume about 10 o'clock, gain at about the same, red channel and with the gain switch set for high gain. No distortion or boost pedals, just a volume pedal - it sounds great with my gold-top, of course! Guys in the band loved it!



Sounds great man. I have to stop looking at these amps cause the grab and go of an EL34 DSL 40 watt combo really appeals to me. I mean I can justify anything gear wise but Marshall got it right in wattage, cab size and circuit execution here. Grab and go Marshall tube tone. I already know what to do with DSL.

Les Paul & Marshall...does that ever go wrong tone wise?No. 

Welcome to the forum.


----------



## saxon68

Yeah now it's not working. Only way I get any sound is if I plug into the effects loop return. Reseated all the preamp tubes, no go. What a bummer.


----------



## saxon68

Ok Zzounds.com is sending me a prepaid return label and will send me a replacement as soon as this one is scanned at UPS, good company!!


----------



## Micky

Sounds like a bad preamp tube...
You say you swapped them all?


----------



## saxon68

Didn't have any to swap with. If it stops working within a week it's going back  I will be sure to buy a matched quartet of power tubes and have 2 installed and biased, with the other 2 on standby and extra preamp tubes on standby also for gigging ASAP. Didn't think I would need em that quickly.


----------



## ucnick

Thanks. This little guy really impresses me, and I am hard to impress, as I change up amps pretty frequently trying to find a good one. Had a beat-up plexi head and a 4X12 years ago, had great lead sound (especially when driven hard with a tubescreamer) but clean not too hot, and just got tired of lugging it around, smaller and simpler better for me anymore. This little guy can really get that "Marshall" sound I crave for leads and crunchy rhythms, responds very well to rolling down the guitar volume, and actually does pretty fair cleans too, especially at full power, we're not talking Fender squeaky clean but if you keep the gain low and the volume up it works pretty well, decent headroom. I kept telling my wife as we drove back last Friday night "I love that amp!", and well I guess I do. I think I will try the Gold Lion ECC83 in V1 per the tubestore recommendation, more of that on the tech thread. Anyway, I think it's a keeper, until somethng better comes along.


----------



## Rocktane

The V1 preamp tube went south on me very early on. V2 went soon after. GC swapped in new tubes instead of sending it back, that way there was no down time for me. Since then, one of the power tubes got noisy and I replaced them all with a matched quad of E34L's and biased it on the cold side. Ultra gain 1 is where I live, I rarely use Green crunch or Ultra 2.


----------



## EndGame00

ucnick said:


> Thanks. This little guy really impresses me, and I am hard to impress, as I change up amps pretty frequently trying to find a good one. Had a beat-up plexi head and a 4X12 years ago, had great lead sound (especially when driven hard with a tubescreamer) but clean not too hot, and just got tired of lugging it around, smaller and simpler better for me anymore. This little guy can really get that "Marshall" sound I crave for leads and crunchy rhythms, responds very well to rolling down the guitar volume, and actually does pretty fair cleans too, especially at full power, we're not talking Fender squeaky clean but if you keep the gain low and the volume up it works pretty well, decent headroom. I kept telling my wife as we drove back last Friday night "I love that amp!", and well I guess I do. I think I will try the Gold Lion ECC83 in V1 per the tubestore recommendation, more of that on the tech thread. Anyway, I think it's a keeper, until somethng better comes along.



Let me know how the Gold Lion ECC83 sounds like.... I've read somewhere on other different forums that those preamp tubes don't last long.


----------



## ucnick

Rocktane said:


> The V1 preamp tube went south on me very early on. V2 went soon after. GC swapped in new tubes instead of sending it back, that way there was no down time for me. Since then, one of the power tubes got noisy and I replaced them all with a matched quad of E34L's and biased it on the cold side. Ultra gain 1 is where I live, I rarely use Green crunch or Ultra 2.



Quad? There only two power tubes in there... do you have one of the extremely rare DSL40Cs with the quad power tube configuration?




Just kidding.


----------



## ucnick

Hm I hope not, not at about $44 a pop... reckon we'll see...


----------



## ucnick

EndGame00 said:


> Let me know how the Gold Lion ECC83 sounds like.... I've read somewhere on other different forums that those preamp tubes don't last long.




Hm... at $44 a pop, I certainly hope they last for a while.... reckon we'll see...


----------



## snshami

ucnick said:


> FWIW - I used the my DSL40C with my ABB trib band last Fri night - you can check out the C19-modded sound (both stage volume and from the PA) on this YT video my wife shot: The Allman Step Brothers Perform "In Memory Of Elizabeth Reed"/EJ Phairs/Pittsburg CA/031513 - YouTube - I'm the guy with the Les Paul gold-top and tie-dye tshirt, you can see my DSL40C behind me and to my left. It is stock except for the C19 mod, which I found really helped. It sounds pretty danged good even through the little mic on the camera. My solo starts at 6:49, you can really hear it there. I was using it on half-power mode with volume about 10 o'clock, gain at about the same, red channel and with the gain switch set for high gain. No distortion or boost pedals, just a volume pedal - it sounds great with my gold-top, of course! Guys in the band loved it!



Very nice playing. Maybe its the recording but I personally I feel that the sound has become a tad too creamy and doesnt stand out as much as I like guitar solos to. It would definitely make the amp sound luscious and awesome for playing at home but I personally like it when solos rip through the soundscape and make a statement and am willing to accept a bit of harshness for that to happen.


----------



## solarburn

snshami said:


> Very nice playing. Maybe its the recording but I personally I feel that the sound has become a tad too creamy and doesnt stand out as much as I like guitar solos to. It would definitely make the amp sound luscious and awesome for playing at home but I personally like it when solos rip through the soundscape and make a statement and am willing to accept a bit of harshness for that to happen.



thats what V30's are for.


----------



## caiokiss

ucnick said:


> FWIW - I used the my DSL40C with my ABB trib band last Fri night - you can check out the C19-modded sound (both stage volume and from the PA) on this YT video my wife shot: The Allman Step Brothers Perform "In Memory Of Elizabeth Reed"/EJ Phairs/Pittsburg CA/031513 - YouTube - I'm the guy with the Les Paul gold-top and tie-dye tshirt, you can see my DSL40C behind me and to my left. It is stock except for the C19 mod, which I found really helped. It sounds pretty danged good even through the little mic on the camera. My solo starts at 6:49, you can really hear it there. I was using it on half-power mode with volume about 10 o'clock, gain at about the same, red channel and with the gain switch set for high gain. No distortion or boost pedals, just a volume pedal - it sounds great with my gold-top, of course! Guys in the band loved it!



Very good! Nice playing and great sound!

Gibson + Marshall =


----------



## Rocktane

ucnick said:


> Quad? There only two power tubes in there...



I have the 100... so yes, that would require a QUAD


----------



## saxon68

Do all 4 preamp tubes have to be good for it to function? Meaning is it possible to swap them around and find the bad one, if it is indeed a preamp tube problem I have?


----------



## Micky

I think all must be good in order to function.
Someone please correct me if I am wrong?
V1a=1st gain stage for all modes
V1b=Ultra gain modes
V2a&b=2nd gain stage
V3a&b=3rd gain stage
V4a&b=Phase inverter

There are no wasted components here, everything is there for a purpose.
Should be easy to obtain an extra 12AX7 to roll thru and see if there is a bad one.


----------



## saxon68

12AX7 can be used in place of the ECC83?


----------



## Micky

Yes, absolutely. They are the same, just labeled differently.
You may also see them labeled as 7025.


----------



## saxon68

Ok that's my project tomorrow evening after work, my lead guitarist says I can use the tube out of the amp I have been learning songs with, little modeling amp with a 12ax7 in it. Thanks for the tip


----------



## snshami

In case anyone wants to add to the reviews on ultimate guitar. I admit I got a bit carried away giving the amp 10/10 on everything but I am strangely bewitched by it. The sound is sensational.
DSL40C Review | Marshall | Guitar Amplifiers | Reviews @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com


----------



## ucnick

> Very nice playing. Maybe its the recording but I personally I feel that the sound has become a tad too creamy and doesnt stand out as much as I like guitar solos to. It would definitely make the amp sound luscious and awesome for playing at home but I personally like it when solos rip through the soundscape and make a statement and am willing to accept a bit of harshness for that to happen





IMHO likely due to the recording and the PA - standing in front of the amp on stage, it danged near took my head off at times, so much so I did have to turn the treble down to about 10 or 11 o'clock, however I was also miking it and running it through a QSC K10 which I use as a floor monitor, so I get the full effect on stage. Boy do I ever.

I suspect the PA was rolling off some of the highs, and I think the bandwidth of the microphone on the camera rolled off the highs even further, and as it was picking up pretty much just PA the combination sounded creamier than what I was experiencing. I certainly was hearing plenty of high end on stage. Also be aware - I was running in half power mode, as the 40W was too much, on 20W was running near the halfway point, so the power stage was beginning to kick in, albeit in triode mode, which does compress a little more easily than pentode.


----------



## saxon68

Ok I found the bad preamp tube by swapping, first the one with the rubber grommet on it, that was good, went to the next one and bam, I got sound!! Thanks guys.


----------



## ibmorjamn

I scored this Carvin V212 to go with the DSL40c. It sounds good.


http://www.marshallforum.com/cabinets-speakers/55096-carvin-v212-slant-cab.html


----------



## Micky

So how does the width of each match up? Is the cab as wide as the DSL?

Like others have found, there is quite a bit of difference between the single speaker in an open-back combo versus a closed back with multiple speakers. Like night and day difference!

As soon as I get a chance (maybe this week) I plan on plugging in my full stack just to see what happens...


----------



## ibmorjamn

Micky said:


> So how does the width of each match up? Is the cab as wide as the DSL?
> 
> Like others have found, there is quite a bit of difference between the single speaker in an open-back combo versus a closed back with multiple speakers. Like night and day difference!
> 
> As soon as I get a chance (maybe this week) I plan on plugging in my full stack just to see what happens...


It would fit but it never occurred to me to use it laying on the side because it is a slant cab but there is lots of room for the amp. It would work just fine.
I wonder if I should put the 8 ohm hot 100 in the combo and use all 3 ?


----------



## Micky

Seems like there is a rash of V2 failures as of late...
Anyone want to venture what the cause of it might be?


----------



## saxon68

Micky said:


> Seems like there is a rash of V2 failures as of late...
> Anyone want to venture what the cause of it might be?



No idea here, I hope someone comes up with something though as I plan to gig with this amp. I know, bad idea without a backup amp, and we will have at least one I am sure, but the backup amp doesn't hold a candle to this tone.


----------



## Micky

saxon68 said:


> No idea here, I hope someone comes up with something though as I plan to gig with this amp. I know, bad idea without a backup amp, and we will have at least one I am sure, but the backup amp doesn't hold a candle to this tone.


Makes more sense to carry some extra 12AX7's rather than a spare amp.
Unless of course, it keeps blowing the V2 tube.

Next time I pull my chassis I will make a few measurements, I think there may be a cap shorted or resistor failure involved, but without a failed amp to test is is extremely difficult to diagnose. 

I haven't had much of a chance as of late to scan the schematic for possible trouble spots, but I think it may be a weak tube or possibly higher voltage on V2 that is causing it to fail. I know mine is working very well, both at reasonable home levels as well as incredibly loud levels when no one is home. (dog runs for cover...)

Someone should check with Marty or Alan to see if there is an 'extra tough' veraion of a 12AX7 (ECC83) that may be more suitable for the V2 slot...


----------



## Micky

Here is the link to the Owners Manual (User Guide):
http://marshallamps.com/downloads/files/DSL40+100 hbk ENG.pdf


----------



## nightrain

As far as best Marshall bedroom tones, which do you guys think will be best?

Blackstar HT-5, Marshall DSL40C, or the Marshall JDM501/102?


----------



## Rocktane

Definitely not the Blackstar. I have an HT-5R head and I like it but my DSL100H has better MARSHALL bedroom tones than my HT-5. This is only my opinion of course. Rock whatever sounds best to your ears


----------



## Micky

Definitely the DSL40c, or the DSL15 as each can be turned down and still maintain that Marshall crunch.

Go ahead and try one before you buy one. Maybe a different amp might be a better fit for some. I am not saying it is a perfect amplifier by any means, it is a great amp that can deliver all kinds of different tones in a relatively small package.

The JMD is also a great amp, you really need to test them to see for yourself though.


----------



## nightrain

yeah, unfortunately there's no where to test these amps out where I live. but based on clips Ive heard, i like the dsl the best


----------



## Micky

So then get one where there is a fair return policy.
Some places charge 15% restocking fee.
Some places allow you to place returns toward future purchases.


----------



## saxon68

Zzounds has a 30 day no questions asked policy. When my amp died they sent me a prepaid return label to ship it back, and when I found out it was only a bad preamp tube they gave me a choice of 3 different tube manufacturers, shipped free of charge. That's customer service. I also bought my Charvel DC1-ST from them, it was a "blemish" with full warranty, which means someone probably didn't like it and returned it. They will continue to get my business with their top notch support.

BTW Micky, I picked groove tube for my replacement, was borrowing an electro harmonix, the groove made the gain drop significantly. I swapped it to the 4th spot and put the stock Marshall tube in 2 and it sounds awesome again. Gonna have to grab a couple more of those EH tubes as my backups, nice growl in them.


----------



## EndGame00

nightrain said:


> As far as best Marshall bedroom tones, which do you guys think will be best?
> 
> Blackstar HT-5, Marshall DSL40C, or the Marshall JDM501/102?



Go for the DSL15C if you're looking for apartment volume level amp... Mind you, the 15's is pretty loud.. If that's too much, 1-watters should be another alternative to consider.


----------



## Micky

saxon68 said:


> Zzounds has a 30 day no questions asked policy. When my amp died they sent me a prepaid return label to ship it back, and when I found out it was only a bad preamp tube they gave me a choice of 3 different tube manufacturers, shipped free of charge. That's customer service. I also bought my Charvel DC1-ST from them, it was a "blemish" with full warranty, which means someone probably didn't like it and returned it. They will continue to get my business with their top notch support.
> 
> BTW Micky, I picked groove tube for my replacement, was borrowing an electro harmonix, the groove made the gain drop significantly. I swapped it to the 4th spot and put the stock Marshall tube in 2 and it sounds awesome again. Gonna have to grab a couple more of those EH tubes as my backups, nice growl in them.



Cool! This is good info. The amp is relatively new, and now with a few of them out there, especially members here, we have a good start on a database full of info. 

There are quite a few here who will start rolling tubes, and this will be a great place to report your findings. There is a wealth of talented people here and we will all benefit from others experiences here. I keep steering people over to this thread in hopes we can collect everything on one convenient spot...


----------



## ibmorjamn

The DSL 40 can be played at low volume in 20w mode and will crank even in 20w. besides it has a effects loop. The 1 watt sounds like it would be cool with the BadCat Unleash (would like to hear it) I am happy with the 40w but the 100w Carvin is also calling me , I need it so I can blow the wigs off my fellow bandmates. lol


----------



## flashtilley

saxon68 said:


> Zzounds has a 30 day no questions asked policy. When my amp died they sent me a prepaid return label to ship it back, and when I found out it was only a bad preamp tube they gave me a choice of 3 different tube manufacturers, shipped free of charge. That's customer service. I also bought my Charvel DC1-ST from them, it was a "blemish" with full warranty, which means someone probably didn't like it and returned it. They will continue to get my business with their top notch support.
> 
> BTW Micky, I picked groove tube for my replacement, was borrowing an electro harmonix, the groove made the gain drop significantly. I swapped it to the 4th spot and put the stock Marshall tube in 2 and it sounds awesome again. Gonna have to grab a couple more of those EH tubes as my backups, nice growl in them.


 


EH preamp tubes sound awesome in these new DSLs.


----------



## bmills

Just wanted to add that my V2 died with the stock tubes right after buying it used. I installed a JJ802 in V1 and JJ803 in V2. The new V2 JJ died a few weeks later. I now have a JJ83s in V2 with no issues yet for two weeks. Hope this is coincidence since I am about to attempt to use this insted of my 100 for summer gigs. I am worried after seeing others with the same issue. Did it go away for anyone that initially had the issue?


----------



## Ensoniq

*C19 cap mod before and after video*

Today I took the plunge and did the C19 cap mod as described earlier in this thread. It is definitely a huge improvement. The switch from green crunch to red 1 is very smooth now and the harsh high end on red channel 1 is gone.

I recorded before and after audio samples and made the video below for those of you who may be considering the mod.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXVs_N2WQnQ"]Marshall DSL40c C19 cap mod comparison - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## solarburn

Excellent demo man. Overall I prefer the cap in especially on the red channel. It sounded a bit scooped when out and I don't like scooped. This is a recording though and I find sometimes what I don't like in person actually sounds good recorded. I've ran into this a few times and have been surprised. I thought I would like the cap out here but not so much. It's dropping upper mids.

If you like it so then ther you go and the playing sounded great. Really good demo showing the difference I think. Good job!


----------



## Micky

I think the bright-cap mod on ANY amp is very dependent on several things.
First, it is very subjective, what might sound good to someone may sound harsh to someone else.
Second, it is dependent on which guitar you might use, for example a Tele might be a lot brighter to begin with in comparison to a Les Paul.
Third, the pickups you use are definitely a factor, we all know what kind of variation you see here.
And lastly, it may have a lot to do with your style of playing, for example I am more of a rhythm player, using a lot of power chords rather than a lead player who might need more high end to cut thru the mix.

The great thing though, is that we can document it here and have a reference to compare notes. You guys are great!


----------



## flashtilley

*Re: C19 cap mod before and after video*



Ensoniq said:


> Today I took the plunge and did the C19 cap mod as described earlier in this thread. It is definitely a huge improvement. The switch from green crunch to red 1 is very smooth now and the harsh high end on red channel 1 is gone.
> 
> I recorded before and after audio samples and made the video below for those of you who may be considering the mod.
> 
> Marshall DSL40c C19 cap mod comparison - YouTube


 


Awesome demo Dude!! I knew you would like it! With both my Les Paul and my Tele, the mod definately improved the sound of my setup. The mod makes this amp much more versatile IMO.


----------



## flashtilley

Now if only someone could figure out a footswitch mod to do 2 things:

1. Add an LED light to tell you when reverb is on (the reverb is weak and some times its hard to tell)

2. Add a switch to switch between modes of each channel

That would make this amp the perfect Marshall amp.


----------



## Micky

flashtilley said:


> Now if only someone could figure out a footswitch mod to do 2 things:
> 
> 1. Add an LED light to tell you when reverb is on (the reverb is weak and some times its hard to tell)
> 
> 2. Add a switch to switch between modes of each channel
> 
> That would make this amp the perfect Marshall amp.



And while they are at it, add separate EQ to each channel...

Oh wait. That would be a JVM...


----------



## Dizzyg12

*Re: C19 cap mod before and after video*



Ensoniq said:


> Today I took the plunge and did the C19 cap mod as described earlier in this thread. It is definitely a huge improvement. The switch from green crunch to red 1 is very smooth now and the harsh high end on red channel 1 is gone.
> 
> I recorded before and after audio samples and made the video below for those of you who may be considering the mod.
> 
> Marshall DSL40c C19 cap mod comparison - YouTube



Well done dude!!! I might do the mod now thanks to your comparison.


----------



## Ensoniq

Right on, I'm glad the vid was helpful.

It is all totally subjective. I'm playing Filtertrons, which are a little brighter than your typical humbucker (though currently I have ancient strings on there - should have changed them before demoing), and I'm mostly a rhythm player, so as Micky said I'm probably the target 'market' for this mod.

One thing to keep in mind: all the EQs were set at 5 for the demo. I didn't want to add too many variables. To me this actually made things too dark overall. In practice I add some treble/mids and/or presence to brighten things up a little and cut through the mix a bit better. The problem before was that sounded great on green but then red was brutal. Now it adds just the right sparkle to both channels and I can switch.

The smooth switching between green and red is the selling point for me. Having a two-channel amp that required zeroing the treble when you switch was frustrating! Without two EQs this mod is the next best thing IMO.

In any case I'm happy this forum exists and I was able learn this mod was even possible! I'm loving this amp.



flashtilley said:


> 2. Add a switch to switch between modes of each channel
> 
> That would make this amp the perfect Marshall amp.



Amen to that! With the brightness fixed this is my #1 wish. I'd pay real dollars to be able to go clean-crunch-lead with a pedal. I can get clean enough by just turning down on green, but it seems arbitrary to offer switching between two groups of two rather than just all four!


----------



## ibmorjamn

flashtilley said:


> Now if only someone could figure out a footswitch mod to do 2 things:
> 
> 1. Add an LED light to tell you when reverb is on (the reverb is weak and some times its hard to tell)
> 
> 2. Add a switch to switch between modes of each channel
> 
> That would make this amp the perfect Marshall amp.


That very thing is a problem for me. Today I was doing some recording and due to convenience I used the old Carvin SX-100 Solid State. And you might ask why ? 
Simple A/B and effects loop with a 3 switch XLR foot pedal. Very brilliant of them to do this. I plugged the Pod 2 in the effects loop and I got 3 different channels. Distortion , Clean and the Pod with delay Chorus/or Flange . Tons of other stuff. It is not tone that I'm chasing at this point, the 40c has it but convenience of the foot switch is nice when recording.I need versatility when doing multi tracks (2)
If I was a amp mod guy I would come up with a foot switch for effects,Clean and gain channels For the DSL and make mucho deniro .


----------



## seattleman1969

Sournote said:


> With my limited knowledge of electronics (1 year in an EE course at a Technical College) I'd be worried about how these devices would interact with the amp.
> 
> That power has to go somewhere, and its gonna produce heat. I'm not convinced the power soak device would be the only place where the increased resistance would cause increased heat build up. I think there would be some increased heat in the internal components of the amp and that it would inevitably shorten the life of the amps components.
> 
> Just a theory, but I'll be sticking with it.



You'd be better off with a Weber as it uses a resistive speaker motor as a load, more accurately representing a "speaker" load, and doesn't generate nearly as much heat as a simple resistive load. But read the disclaimers on their site and the proper usage of an attenuator.

http://www.tedweber.com/atten.htm


----------



## Micky

Well, I finally got around to installing a choke in my DSL40c tonight.

Fairly simple job, mount the choke, unsolder R111, and solder in the choke wires.

I could go on and on about the difference in tone, the lack of any sag whatsoever, the way it lowered the noise floor on the amp when turned all the way up , and the way now everything seems brighter, more clearly defined and accurate.

But I won't. 

Because I could tell no difference whatsoever. Maybe the reverb is clearer and more pronounced. Maybe.

I am so under-impressed I don't even want to post the pix I shot.

The part that really pissed me off was that the choke cost $19, and the shipping was $15. And now my combo is 57 pounds heavy.

The neat part of tonight was that I got to crank this mother. Now I have played 400-watt amps before, as well as everything up to that level. I routinely use PA amps totaling over 10KW. I know what power feels like.

Maxing this sucker out rattled stuff off the counter and sent the pets running for cover.
40 watts thru an extremely efficient (100db) Eminence Texas Heat speaker in the middle of the kitchen made the floor shake. After a few power chords I was politely asked to turn it down...


----------



## Micky

OK, so I may have pulled the trigger a little too quickly.

Apparently a few quick riffs and some major power chords are not enough to judge such a change.

I took the amp back downstairs, and set it up like normal. I have read in detail how others have experienced 'flubby bass' or possibly 'muddy' low end. Personally I thought I had remedied this particular situation by replacing the speaker. The bass seemed to have returned a bit, and I was enjoying a really decent sounding amp.

That is, until I started playing a few more favorite riffs (Aerosmith, Stones, AC-DC, AIC, VH and a few other classic rock cuts) at an appreciable volume level. 

So I said to myself, this is cool. Way cool. Tight, defined, accurate throughout the freq range. Cleans sounded Fender clean. But only with the gain way down and the Master way up. Crunch was way crunchy, like Snyders pretzel crunchy. I didn't spend a lot of time on the other channel yet, but a quick test on OD1 put me into Nugent country, Stranglehold never sounded so good. Feedback where and when I wanted it. Alice Cooper would be proud too...

So firmly inserting my foot squarely into my big mouth I need to take another step back and spend some more time comparing the new sound of the choked amp...

And no, I have no clips. I won't be making any. Put a choke in your DSL and make your own damn clips.


----------



## Axeplyr

Micky, what choke value did you use? Thanks!


----------



## Micky

3H, ClassicTone #40-18058 - I think I ordered it from Amp Parts Direct.
DC resistance was 112 ohms. (I think the ad is at the top of this page, but I have Ad-Block plus installed so I don't see it anymore...)

What I really wanted was a 10H choke, but I couldn't find one with a high enough current rating (this one was 250ma). The resistor installed was a 7-watt encased in ceramic, so I know there is a bit of current running thru it. If I can find one cheap enough, I might replace it, but at this point I still need to play with this one installed a lot more in order to understand completely what the changes are. Also a 10H choke with sufficient current rating may be several pounds heavier, and at this point I am not interested in making the combo any heavier at all. At 57 pounds, it is bordering on 2X12 territory, and I kinda wanted to stay away from there...

To go from a single resistor that costs a buck or so to a choke that costs $35 is certainly a design consideration for Marshall, but as a relative newbie to amplifier electronics (I have extensive Engineering experience in Industrial Electronics, RF Design, and Data Collection...) it is difficult to quantify changes that are more subjective than anything else. 

For example, a choke in this application should definitely filter the power to the B+ lines a lot better than the R/C network that is there, but will not 'load down' the circuit as much because of the lower resistance (270 ohm resistor vs. 112 ohm choke) and therefore allow more current to reach the screens and grids of the tubes. How this affects overall frequency response, especially lower frequencies is still an unknown to me. I DO KNOW that a resistor/capacitor type of filter network will pass more high frequencies and tend to filter or cut more low frequencies, so removing the resistor from this part of the circuit and replacing it with a choke should 'theoretically' allow more bass response. This is what I still need to investigate.

So along with this, there are three other controls I still need to play with. Right away, after first firing up the amp I thought the reverb sounded better. I dunno why, because this is all a digital lo-power circuit handled by op-amps in a different section of the circuit all together. But it sounded better. The other controls are the Resonance and the Presence.

Both these controls had very little effect in the stock amp, one seemed to adjust the treble a bit, and the other seems to muddy up the bass a touch. I never did quite understand why these controls were even there, I come from the Fender camp where such controls never existed. My other Marshalls also lacked these controls somewhat, and because they don't seem to adjust too much on the DSL40c, I haven't really played with them too much.

But I have a feeling that because of the choke installation these controls may come to life. At first I was very quick to mis-judge the change I had made, and I feel like a real asshole now that I have had a moment to experiment with things and realize exactly what I have done.

Sorry to be long winded, but this is the thread to relate your experiences. Other people need to know what an extremely versatile amp this is, and as long as there is a growing user base we will all benefit from each other in that respect.


----------



## Axeplyr

Thank you for the great response.

I am still experimenting with the best value for C19 - currently 68pF is in there but it might get even closer to perfection with 100pF. Like you, I have to play the amp for awhile in various configs before I go back in there for a new cap.

I will be interested to hear your take on the choke in a couple of weeks after you've digested the changes. 

I agree this is a very versatile, good sounding combo. So far I'm extremely impressed. My other amps are a '79 100w JMP halfstack and a Super Reverb Reissue. With the mods I've made, the DSL40C is good enough that I haven't touched the others since I bought it. I've also owned boutique amps (Fuchs, 65Amps), various plexis, a Bassman, and many other respected amps before. Not that it can cop a 100w Marshall halfstack or blackface Fender, but what it does it does EXTREMELY well. After a couple of small changes, it holds its own against anything else I've owned. I've been waiting for someone to offer an amp like this for a long time.


----------



## Micky

You know, a LOT of other people feel the same way you do (me too). It really is pretty cool to have all those different tones in your arsenal. But things would be so much different if I was still gigging...

Unfortunately for me a real job and family get in the way. Now with warmer weather here, lawn and pool maintenance is the priority. Hopefully there will still be a few party weekends left jamming with other people...

Be sure to post your cap trials here, and keep others informed of what is working and how you got it there. Post clips if you can, definitely photos if you get the chance.


----------



## Rocktane

Axeplyr said:


> Thank you for the great response.
> 
> I am still experimenting with the best value for C19 - currently 68pF is in there but it might get even closer to perfection with 100pF. Like you, I have to play the amp for awhile in various configs before I go back in there for a new cap.
> 
> I will be interested to hear your take on the choke in a couple of weeks after you've digested the changes.



I have not played with around with C19 yet on the DSL100H. I primarily use the Red UG1 for everything. However, I have been experimenting more with the Green lately. I find that at lower volumes, EQ difference between red and green to be vast and make them almost incompatible. However, red and green are closer when the channel volumes are raised up higher (say 1:00+). At first, I thought about trying make C19 switchable. Now, I am wondering if C19 can somehow be easily modded to be controlled by a pot. This way, the bright cap could be used from stock value, to all the way out of the circuit, and everything in between. Would this be possible?


----------



## Axeplyr

Micky said:


> You know, a LOT of other people feel the same way you do (me too). It really is pretty cool to have all those different tones in your arsenal. But things would be so much different if I was still gigging...
> 
> Unfortunately for me a real job and family get in the way. Now with warmer weather here, lawn and pool maintenance is the priority. Hopefully there will still be a few party weekends left jamming with other people...
> 
> Be sure to post your cap trials here, and keep others informed of what is working and how you got it there. Post clips if you can, definitely photos if you get the chance.



Yup, similar situation. This amp is probably going to let me downsize as priorities have shifted since I don't really jam with others anymore.

I bought a couple 100pf ceramic disc caps at Radio Shack yesterday and plan on trying them this weekend... Once I get this thing dialed in to the final value, maybe I can put together a decent clip.


----------



## Axeplyr

Rocktane said:


> I have not played with around with C19 yet on the DSL100H. I primarily use the Red UG1 for everything. However, I have been experimenting more with the Green lately. I find that at lower volumes, EQ difference between red and green to be vast and make them almost incompatible. However, red and green are closer when the channel volumes are raised up higher (say 1:00+). At first, I thought about trying make C19 switchable. Now, I am wondering if C19 can somehow be easily modded to be controlled by a pot. This way, the bright cap could be used from stock value, to all the way out of the circuit, and everything in between. Would this be possible?



Here's the thing about the C19 mod that I haven't heard many people say. My ears suggest that changing C19 also alters the personality of the gain channel. It definitely loses some modernity and takes on a more classic tone. Slightly looser, a little more open, etc. For me, that is perfect... as a guy in his mid-40s and growing up in the classic rock era, I liked the amp before, but now I love it. 

That said, I can see the desire to preserve the original tone. 

I think there are a couple of things you can do here pretty easily, but it depends on how drastically you want to alter the amp. Removing the cap is the easy part. Putting in a different cap is also easy with the right soldering iron and know-how. If you want switching capability, it is just a matter of either adding a small variable capacitor or a rotary switch with a few different cap values. Then you have to be willing to drill the front panel. Not to forget the tech know-how involved. Alternatively, there are plenty of techs who would be happy to help.

Mouser sells some variable caps here... though I'm not yet seeing exact values of ~0pf to ~470pf, which would be ideal.

variable capacitor Trimmer / Variable Capacitors | Mouser

They also sell rotary switches... you could go with a 6-position and pick several values: no cap, 70pf, 100pf, 150pf, 220pf, 470pf for example.

Rotary Switches | Mouser

Me personally, I think I would be most happy with a DPDT switch with two options: original value for a modern gain channel, and the matched value (~100pf) for perfect eqing between channels. The built-in third position would be no cap as a dark position. I'm not ready to drill though!


----------



## Rocktane

Thanks for the info! I have no problem drilling mine. Lot's of room on the back panel and if it happens down the road, I foresee 2 available pots on the font panel offering themselves up. The reverb pots. I will add a pedal and use that, not a fan of the built in reverb on this unit. Thanks again, I will post in the workbench section when I get serious.


----------



## JBJam

Hi everyone! I am a first time poster to this forum and I must say, you people a passionate about your Marshall amplifiers. I stumbled across this forum looking for demos and information on the new DSL 40c and I thought it might be fun to chime in.

With that said, I have been following the C19 mod conversation in regard to the DSL40c amp modification since I am in the market for the new amp. I have demoed the new DSL 15H. It was a very respectable amp and I liked what I heard. However, I have not demoed the 40 watt combo yet. I am waiting for the local guitar shop to get one in the store. 

I did listen to the sound clip that was posted on this forum of the DSL 40c with and without the C19 mod. Interesting. It seems that the mod removes the "spank" as I call it, (some prefer bright, clangy, jangly or even harsh....you get the point) from the amp. In other words, it does change the character of the amp. Darker. Keeping the "spank" would allow for a better cut in the mix in my opinion. But, its all a matter of preference and to me, Marshall amps have always had that unique Marshall "spank" tone. To each their own said the old lady as she kissed the cow!


----------



## Micky

Welcome.

Try one to make sure for yourself.
Bring your own guitar if you can, as it is a very subjective modification.

For me, it was more about not having to turn the treble and mids down every time I use OD2.
It made all the EQ more 'equal' for me, might be different for you.

Be sure to post your findings & opinion here, where we all can learn!


----------



## Axeplyr

JBJam said:


> Hi everyone! I am a first time poster to this forum and I must say, you people a passionate about your Marshall amplifiers. I stumbled across this forum looking for demos and information on the new DSL 40c and I thought it might be fun to chime in.
> 
> With that said, I have been following the C19 mod conversation in regard to the DSL40c amp modification since I am in the market for the new amp. I have demoed the new DSL 15H. It was a very respectable amp and I liked what I heard. However, I have not demoed the 40 watt combo yet. I am waiting for the local guitar shop to get one in the store.
> 
> I did listen to the sound clip that was posted on this forum of the DSL 40c with and without the C19 mod. Interesting. It seems that the mod removes the "spank" as I call it, (some prefer bright, clangy, jangly or even harsh....you get the point) from the amp. In other words, it does change the character of the amp. Darker. Keeping the "spank" would allow for a better cut in the mix in my opinion. But, its all a matter of preference and to me, Marshall amps have always had that unique Marshall "spank" tone. To each their own said the old lady as she kissed the cow!



I replaced the original 470pf with what is currently a 100pf cap. I do not feel the mod has removed the "spank". In fact, the amp's lead channel eq now matches the clean/crunch channel, and the lead channel feels very similar to my '79 Marshall JMP with a boost in front. Prior to the mod it was a little more modern, and the channel's eq was completely out of wack with the clean/crunch channel. There is still plenty of cut / spank, it's just now the two channels are calibrated.



Micky said:


> Welcome.
> 
> Try one to make sure for yourself.
> Bring your own guitar if you can, as it is a very subjective modification.
> 
> For me, it was more about not having to turn the treble and mids down every time I use OD2.
> It made all the EQ more 'equal' for me, might be different for you.
> 
> Be sure to post your findings & opinion here, where we all can learn!



My results exactly.


----------



## saxon68

bmills said:


> Just wanted to add that my V2 died with the stock tubes right after buying it used. I installed a JJ802 in V1 and JJ803 in V2. The new V2 JJ died a few weeks later. I now have a JJ83s in V2 with no issues yet for two weeks. Hope this is coincidence since I am about to attempt to use this insted of my 100 for summer gigs. I am worried after seeing others with the same issue. Did it go away for anyone that initially had the issue?



Still running strong in mine. I have ordered a new EH, I want to out it into V2 and take the stock tube that's there and put it into V4, and keep the Groove Tube that's currently in V4 as my spare.
I had the groove tube in V2 for about 2 minutes and it sounded like someone neutered my Marshall LoL. That's why I stuck it in 4 instead.
Has anyone else had preamp tube problems?


----------



## eMan_cometh

flashtilley said:


> Now if only someone could figure out a footswitch mod to do 2 things:
> 
> 1. Add an LED light to tell you when reverb is on (the reverb is weak and some times its hard to tell)
> 
> 2. Add a switch to switch between modes of each channel
> 
> That would make this amp the perfect Marshall amp.



I seriously think the 2nd button on the footswitch could have been ANY of the on amp button switches (Channel voice, FX loop, even the damn Tone shift) would be incredibly more logical than a reverb switch. "Oh, I love the fact I can turn the little reverb that I have off or on at the kick of my foot!"

Now a FOUR button switch with the aforementioned...that'd be the cat's meeeeow


----------



## Micky

saxon68 said:


> Still running strong in mine. I have ordered a new EH, I want to out it into V2 and take the stock tube that's there and put it into V4, and keep the Groove Tube that's currently in V4 as my spare.
> I had the groove tube in V2 for about 2 minutes and it sounded like someone neutered my Marshall LoL. That's why I stuck it in 4 instead.
> Has anyone else had preamp tube problems?



OEM tubes still in mine, have had no need as of yet to even experiment with anything else in the preamp slots... Running strong!


----------



## Roger Tyria

eMan
The design is almost finished for the necessary MOD to do just what you are asking for. 4 button switch with LED's [ Classic - Ultra / Clean-Crunch / LD1 - LD2 / Reverb]
I just finished adding LED's to the stock 2 button switch and that is a big improvement just to have visual feedback on channel and Rev On/Off I am powering with 9v stomp box power supply, as there is really no good way to get LED power from the current Marshall design.
Next up the full 4 button version. Will require a bit of tweaking of the circuit but as I said the design is almost complete. As soon as I have it finished and working on my Amp I'll post the info for everyone.


----------



## wolfganggold

Hi folks! 
First post here. I bought my DSL40C back around Valentine's day of this year and so far I'm elated! This isn't my first tube amp (I have a '71 Fender Bassman 50 watt head and previously had a Peavey Ultra410 combo) but it's my first Marshall.

I've been playing stringed instruments for about 21 years now, starting with guitar but I switched to bass 12 years ago or so and that's what I play in my band. I still mess around with guitar in the bedroom though and that's the primary function of my DSL40C: a bedroom and occasional recording amp.

When shopping for my new amp, I demoed the Egnater Tweaker 40 combo and the DSL40C. I also listened to many many youtube videos of those amps as well as some stuff from Blackstar and Orange. The Egnater was super sweet...It sounded beautiful and is VERY...well...tweakable. However, on the very highest gain setting, it just didn't get to the level I knew I'd want from time to time and the Marshall did.

So far, I'm happy with the stock sound. I live in a house by myself so I can fairly often have the volume up pretty loud (roughly Red2 gain 6 or 7, volume between 3 and 4) and a couple of times I've opened 'er up to positively stupid levels (say, Red2, gain at 7 or 8, volume at between 5 and 6). I also mess with it frequently at a neighbor-friendly volume setting of 1 or even .5 and it sounds great to me at all those volumes. At the aforementioned positively stupid level, it's way louder than you would ever want to play it in a band situation. You'd drown the drums out easily, even if you're dealing with a power player. It IS however a volume level that I'd use for recording...

I don't really have any interest in doing any modifications to it at the moment...I like the bright, modern sound I'm getting from Red 2 (I DO have the treble pulled back quite a bit, however) so I'm not worried about pulling C19. I WOULD however kill for what I see as the amp's one glaringly missing feature: A footswitch for going between the two modes on each channel. It looks like a few of you (or maybe just Roger Tyria  ) are working on it...I wait with bated breath!


----------



## Micky

Greetings and welcome to the forum.
There are a lot of knowledgeable and helpful people here, so stay tuned for more!

I as well as many others are waiting to see what can be done as far as footswitch mods are concerned, there has been one for the older DSL's for a while now, but alas, it won't work so well with the new design. Roger is working on one as you can see above, and it looks like it will be difficult to implement. Personally I am curious to see how he will deal with the volume levels between modes. I know that was a big problem with the older version...


----------



## dave999z

Is there a schematic available for this amp? I'd like to just have a 4 button foot switch that takes you to any of the four channel/mode settings with one press. How hard can that be?


----------



## ibmorjamn

I was playing around with the EQ and channels today and I found a setting I liked with Ultra Lead 2 . Even though most people can't use this channel.
Gain 2
Volume 2
Treble 3 
Bass 2
Mid 4.5 
Tone shift in

It had almost a green channel sound but a little better to my ears. However I'm using a Carvin 2 x12 with Vintage 30 style speakers and the Dean V with the Bill Lawrence 500 xl.

http://snd.sc/13ihffC


----------



## Roger Tyria

Actually the Channel / Rev is already set up from the factory, even an upgrade to add the FX would not be too difficult as it is already configured to be able to be modified easily to add a stomp switch for this.

When you get to the Gain switching it's a lot more complex, as the front panel switches are multi deck style switching 3 - 4 separate contacts within each circuit. In order to still keep the front panel switches functional and add the foot switch is a bit more involved than just adding another 1/4" jack or two. 

I want to keep the panel switches where they are and cut them out of circuit as soon as the Ft Sw is plugged in. That way the foot switch has priority switching when connected.
It really is a bit involved to make this work, as soon as I have mine modified and working I'll keep everyone posted on the results.

Mickey has a point regarding the difference in volume levels being a potential issue, the same even now just using the front panel switches. Not sure how to compensate for that yet, if there even is a reasonable way get there?


----------



## Micky

Roger, a trimpot on the add-in board you will need to add will work, or at least get you in the ballpark so when you kick the switch the potential for volume loss/gain won't be that great.

And no 'e' in Micky please, I don't want to be confused with the other Mickey here, he is much more knowledgeable about Marshall stuff than I am...


----------



## Rocktane

Thank you for your work and posts on this Roger! 

I believe the biggest volume concern is with the Green channel. Crunch mode has a significant volume jump from clean on my amp. I don't hear a change in volume between Red-1 and Red-2. I suppose it would be useful to have the option of separate volume controls for each mode in Red for versatility.

I would gladly surrender the reverb pots on my DSL100H for additional "mode" volume pots. Personally, I don't use the built-in reverb much and will be adding a quality reverb pedal, if needed, at some point. At the moment, my Flashback delay creates enough space for my purposes.

I know this mod exists for the JCM2000 versions, having it available for this new line will make a lot of players here very excited!


----------



## Roger Tyria

Micky (- the "e"),
Thanks for the heads up on concern about vol levels...

How about concentric (dual knob) pots to replace the current vol pots?
Anyone know where I can get my hands on a couple 1M A taper pots to try out?


----------



## lafromla1

Has anyone thought of putting casters on their 40C to roll it, rather than carry it? Would that affect the sound since the bottom is not firmly planted on the ground? Right now Im using a luggage carrier for my Blues Jr. and pedal board and I can continue to use it with the 40C, but was just wondering what others have done.


----------



## Micky

I plan on eventually plunking it on top of an MX212 extension cab, hopefully that will have caster sockets on the bottom...


----------



## lafromla1

Micky said:


> I plan on eventually plunking it on top of an MX212 extension cab, hopefully that will have caster sockets on the bottom...



Found these and they seem to have a strong following:
Mesa Boogie Trak-Loc 3" Removable Caster Set Amplifier | Rainbow Guitars


----------



## Quasar-Kid

lafromla1 said:


> Found these and they seem to have a strong following:
> Mesa Boogie Trak-Loc 3" Removable Caster Set Amplifier | Rainbow Guitars



Yup... 
I pretty much install those on everything larger than a 1 x 12 
They work flawlessly


----------



## saxon68

My DSL40C after speaker break-in:

DSL40C with Charvel DC-1ST - YouTube

Mind you this is with an iPhone, so it's not pro at all. 
Red channel ultra 1 with gain at 5, no effects or anything else.


----------



## Rocktane

Considering how it was recorded, that was one the best clips I've heard of the 40. Nice Job!


----------



## saxon68

Rocktane said:


> Considering how it was recorded, that was one the best clips I've heard of the 40. Nice Job!



Thanks man, that means a lot to me. I was out of music for a lot of years, and sold all my gear about 3 years ago to finance a move, and just this year pulled the trigger on a guitar and amp, and I agonized forever in what to buy, my last guitar purchase was around '93 and amp at about the same time, and everything has changed so much. Have not been onstage since 93 and dying to get back now. I know I am still sloppy, but this amp makes you play clean as it sounds like buckets of gain but that's all fingers and hitting the strings hard, with a lot of thumb like a pinch harmonic on chords, but if you mess up its clear as a bell.


----------



## lafromla1

Rocktane said:


> Considering how it was recorded, that was one the best clips I've heard of the 40. Nice Job!



+1 Sounds great.....


----------



## 07-BUT

Hello,
I just got a new DSL100H. When I'm on Ultra Gain Channel (Lead 1 or Lead 2) with volume set to 0 on the amp and volume set at its maximum on the guitar, I can hear the guitar trough the amp. Is that a normal behaviour on this amp or the sign for something to be setup or something bad ? Don't have that on my other amps (Marshall or not). Thanks for your advice.


----------



## Roger Tyria

07
Sounds like a flakey Vol Pot on Red channel, or some other reason for the signal to bleed through.
Colud be a bad solder connection on the pot on the AGND side of the circuit board? 
I assume the volume output is weak but you can still hear sound out of the speaker?
If it's new I'd take it in and have it looked at. 
With Vol at "0" the wiper on the volume pot (Pre Amp Out) should be grounded out not letting any signal out to the PI - V4 tube.


----------



## Micky

Is the gain set at 0 also?


----------



## 07-BUT

No


----------



## 07-BUT

Roger Tyria said:


> 07
> Sounds like a flakey Vol Pot on Red channel, or some other reason for the signal to bleed through.
> Colud be a bad solder connection on the pot on the AGND side of the circuit board?
> I assume the volume output is weak but you can still hear sound out of the speaker?
> If it's new I'd take it in and have it looked at.
> With Vol at "0" the wiper on the volume pot (Pre Amp Out) should be grounded out not letting any signal out to the PI - V4 tube.



Yes I can hear sound out of the speaker. It was the first thing I noticed when powering the amp for the 1st time.


----------



## Micky

Try it with the vol and gain at 0.
The DSL40c has an incredible amount of gain on the ultra channel, any little signal at all is gonna have magnitudes of amplification applied...


----------



## 07-BUT

Roger Tyria said:


> 07
> Sounds like a flakey Vol Pot on Red channel, or some other reason for the signal to bleed through.
> Colud be a bad solder connection on the pot on the AGND side of the circuit board?
> I assume the volume output is weak but you can still hear sound out of the speaker?
> If it's new I'd take it in and have it looked at.
> With Vol at "0" the wiper on the volume pot (Pre Amp Out) should be grounded out not letting any signal out to the PI - V4 tube.





Micky said:


> Try it with the vol and gain at 0.
> The DSL40c has an incredible amount of gain on the ultra channel, any little signal at all is gonna have magnitudes of amplification applied...



With volume AND gain at 0: no sound. So problem or not with this amp ? Mine is a DSL100H. I can try tomorrow with a DSL40C to compare...


----------



## Rocktane

Not a problem, my 100H does the same and others have reported this as well.


----------



## 07-BUT

Rocktane said:


> Not a problem, my 100H does the same and others have reported this as well.



Ok. Thanks. So I do not have to worry about that. I can go to the "cap mod"


----------



## lafromla1

First impressions:
1) I love the cleans. Has the depth and bottom end that my Blues Jr. doesn't have and that is what I was looking for. Can't wait to hook both together and get that nice mix.

2) Each step up is louder than the step before. I am really going to have to play with the settings to get an understanding of its capabilities. Looking into what others have as settings will help.

3) The Ultra Gain channel is very loud and sometimes downright shrill. I'll have to play with the EQ a bit or look into the C19 mod.

4) I really see how the pedal having not only a change in channels, but also a change within channels would be more of a benefit than switching reverb on and off. Also having it lit would be nice.

Overall, I cant wait to play with it more.


----------



## lafromla1

I am having one issue with my DSL40C. When I am on the Classic Gain - Clean, I have to turn the volume all the way up on the guitar and turn the volume knob to 6 before I start hearing anything coming out of the amp. If I go to crunch from there, I blow the doors off the place. The step up in volume is way to disparaging. The step up on the Ultra Gain channel from clean to crunch is what I would expect. When I look behind the amp at the tubes, I am noticing that the far left tube (which I am assuming is the V1 tube) is not glowing nearly as bright as the other 3 pre-amp tubes. Could I have gotten a bad tube and it just needs replacing? I would think that I would never have to turn the amp up to 6 in a small setting just to hear it. The other channels I cant go past 4 (and guitar volume past 6) without it being too loud in the same setting. If it is a bad tube, should I take the moment to upgrade it to an EH or Tung-Sol? Its still under store warrant, so I should be able to upgrade for the difference in price. Better then having to repackage it and send it back.


----------



## saxon68

Probably a tube, I would see if the store will replace it, mine certainly does not do that, the difference is minimal. I had considered doing the cap mod but I felt that the speaker deserved a fair shake so I went a couple months for a break in period and I am happy with it now.

As far as the tubes go, when my V2 went out I replaced it with a Groove Tubes GT-12AX-7-R select and it was like the amp had it's balls cut off. I swapped it into V4 and it sounded ok there, then bought an Electro Harmonix SOV 12AX-7EH and put it into V2 and the one that was there back into V4, keeping the GT as a spare because I know it works on in V4. That being said I would speak with Marty about better NOS tubes, I plan to get some later myself, he is a super helpful fellow and has a great rep here.


----------



## Roger Tyria

lafromla1 said:


> I am having one issue with my DSL40C. When I am on the Classic Gain - Clean, I have to turn the volume all the way up on the guitar and turn the volume knob to 6 before I start hearing anything coming out of the amp. If I go to crunch from there, I blow the doors off the place. The step up in volume is way to disparaging. The step up on the Ultra Gain channel from clean to crunch is what I would expect. When I look behind the amp at the tubes, I am noticing that the far left tube (which I am assuming is the V1 tube) is not glowing nearly as bright as the other 3 pre-amp tubes. Could I have gotten a bad tube and it just needs replacing? I would think that I would never have to turn the amp up to 6 in a small setting just to hear it. The other channels I cant go past 4 (and guitar volume past 6) without it being too loud in the same setting. If it is a bad tube, should I take the moment to upgrade it to an EH or Tung-Sol? Its still under store warrant, so I should be able to upgrade for the difference in price. Better then having to repackage it and send it back.


Just a couple of thoughts and some informtation that may be of help on this. I don't claim to be an expert but just offereing my observations. I have a 40c also and there is definitely a volume difference between the Clean and Crunch settings on Classic channel. One point here is that the gain setting will effect both Clean and Crunch drive / output. Not sure where you have the gain set but might try briniging it up when on the clean side to see if the output increases.
I don't think it is the tube as both Clean and Crunch use the V1a section of the tube, Ultra Lead 1 / Lead 2 use the other half V1b. So if you are getting good volume on crunch setting I'd play around with the gain, vol, and EQ settings to see if you can get the 2 modes closer in voulme levels. As I said I have the same issue with my amp.
The other thing you could try is swapping V1 with V2 and note if any difference.
The V1 heater circuit is supplied by a DC source, where the remaing tubes are AC. That could be the reason the heater seems to not be glowing as bright as the others. The heater only needs to warm the cathode enough to allow emission of electrons for the tube to conduct.

Hope you find the right combination / solution this is really an Awsome amp, once you get used to dialing it in a little bit.

Good Luck!


----------



## Micky

Probably a preamp tube, best to take a known good 12AX7 and try it in each spot to try and narrow down the problem.

It could very well be V1, but it is difficult to tell at this point until you try different tubes.

There IS a very large difference between clean and crunch, (at least on my amp) but not as great as you have described. When running clean, I often find I need to crank it to 10 to be heard over everything else.

In this amp, everything goes thru V1a, only Ultra Lead1/2 goes thru V1b. V2a & b and V3a & b are cascaded gain stages before it hits the tone stack. V4 is the Phase Inverter, part of the power amp section. This should be easy to narrow down.

Also please specify the front panel settings, especially the gain & tone...


----------



## saxon68

If he has to turn it to 6 to hear anything there is a definate issue more than front panel settings. Even with my gain all the way down to 1 on mine if I put the volume at 6 the cops are gonna show up. There is a difference in vulume levels but not THAT much of a difference, from just being able to hear to blowing the doors off just switching from clean to crunch?

Also, using triode or pentode mode?


----------



## lafromla1

OK, so i recreated the issue with a Sweetwater tech on the line. Told him the settings on the amp and on my guitar and he went back and also recreated it on another amp with a similar guitar. Apparently I need to add much more gain on the Classic Gain - Clean setting or very little, if any sound will come out. (Looks like Roger hit it right) Then I can tone down the volume. So its not a tube issue, but there is a significant change in settings needed between the clean and crunch on that channel. I guess it works great for recording, or if you have time between songs to change settings if you need to. But to go from clean to crunch will mean using much more gain on the clean then I want to as I am really digging the cleans on this Marshall.

Good news is that I dont have any amp issues, its just all between the ears........


----------



## Roger Tyria

Cool.. Glad you got that worked out without needing to make a repair / tube swap this early on.
What I have found works for me is:
I use Classic - Crunch for my clean ch by rolling off the gain a bit and upping the vol and playing with EQ / Pres / Res. I run it a little hot to get up over the drums and can allways roll the vol back on the guitar or switch PU to clean up. I play a Strat to they are fairly easy to get good cleans.
I set the Ultra - LD1 for my OD ch and adjust Gain to get the dirt I want and then roll the Amp Vol back to a manageable level. Unless you can get the volume up to about 4 or so mine sounds a bit fizzy on this channel.
I also have a ME-70 I run out front for added OD / FX to get a little more push if necessary.
Just keep experimenting and trying different stuff, it will take a while but this is a really nice amp!


----------



## Micky

For me, I absolutely REFUSE to use pedals unless absolutely necessary.

If I need to reach over and tweak a dial, I can do that.

But I get better results from installing better controls in my guitars. A lot of people just leave their guitars turned up all the way, all the time. I find I can turn up the gain on the clean mode, and roll the volume back on the guitar and get Fender-like cleans at just about any volume level I need. I can't wait to get a Telecaster to try the twang out with some bluegrass buddies of mine.

I agree though, it is much easier to adjust volume levels between channels than it is between modes.


----------



## CharliePorter

Ciao Kiss - great sound clips!

Charlie.


----------



## CharliePorter

Micky,

I agree - back off the volume and tone of your bridge pickup and you're into a great sound.
I use this all the time with my Les Paul.

Charlie.


----------



## Duffy49

lafromla1 said:


> OK, so i recreated the issue with a Sweetwater tech on the line. Told him the settings on the amp and on my guitar and he went back and also recreated it on another amp with a similar guitar. Apparently I need to add much more gain on the Classic Gain - Clean setting or very little, if any sound will come out. (Looks like Roger hit it right) Then I can tone down the volume. So its not a tube issue, but there is a significant change in settings needed between the clean and crunch on that channel. I guess it works great for recording, or if you have time between songs to change settings if you need to. But to go from clean to crunch will mean using much more gain on the clean then I want to as I am really digging the cleans on this Marshall.
> 
> Good news is that I dont have any amp issues, its just all between the ears........


 
I'm glad to see that you solved this, probably, very bothersome problem and found out that you didn't have a problem after all. Everyone does this type of thing once in a while, especially with new and very different things.


----------



## solarburn

lafromla1 said:


> OK, so i recreated the issue with a Sweetwater tech on the line. Told him the settings on the amp and on my guitar and he went back and also recreated it on another amp with a similar guitar. Apparently I need to add much more gain on the Classic Gain - Clean setting or very little, if any sound will come out. (Looks like Roger hit it right) Then I can tone down the volume. So its not a tube issue, but there is a significant change in settings needed between the clean and crunch on that channel. I guess it works great for recording, ror if you have time between songs to change settings if you need to. But to go from clean to crunch will mean using much more gain on the clean then I want to as I am really digging the cleans on this Marshall.
> 
> Good news is that I dont have any amp issues, its just all between the ears........



In my experience the crunch channel is a perfect platform for running OD pedals to boost with. Here is where you can set the crunch channel for gain and then roll off to cleans using guitar volume. It works very well and once you are familiar enough you can have other gain choices with pedals added and still roll off to clean. The crunch channel cleans up very well. I never used my clean channel...always rolled off to clean so there is a way to do clean and have volume matching other channels.

Hell you can have like 3 different gain voicings with OD pedals just utilizing the crunch channel and still roll off to cleans. Experiment with yours. The DSL is capable of many good tones especially rock and the crunch channel was my favorite channel or voicing to tweak!


----------



## Micky

To many, it seems very strange to have to turn up the gain on the clean channel to get any sort of usable volume.
You ought to have no gain at all, but this is not the Marshall way.

For me, when trying to use clean mode, I usually turn up that channel volume all the way, and use the gain knob to get the maximum level I need. That way I can roll off the guitar volume, and roll it back up for leads and such.

I am still getting more and more impressed with the clean channel, although I find I have to use 40W mode to get serious vlume levels in comparison the the Ultra channel. The Ultra modes have an unbelievable amount of gain as well as volume levels, and as I stated before, it is sometimes difficult to match volume levels between channels, but especially between modes...


----------



## Duffy49

I am waiting for my DSL40c to arrive - backordered. I have been waiting for several weeks. Anyway, I have a speaker question specifically related to the DSL40c.

I'm considering putting in an Eminence Governor, evidently an improved version of the V30. This looks like an excellent speaker for this amp.

You all have had a lot of experience using these amps and some of you have replaced the speaker. I'm wondering if anyone has tried the Texas Heat or the Swamp Thang in their DSL40c or other new DSL series amp?

I will use this amp at home only and can crank it up because we live in a rural area. I usually turn it up to the loudness that I think the kind of music I play should be played at. I play rock, blues, and folk rock. I make up my own songs, etc. I turn the amp down when playing at night.

I have zero experience with any of these three speakers. I have a Ragin Cajun in my SCXD Fender and it was an incredible improvement in sound.

I am wondering if the Texas Heat or especially, the Swamp Thang would help provide an improved bass sound in this amp; more so than the Governor? Would the TH or ST be smoother sounding than the Governor?

Are there any specific subjective qualities that one of these speakers have that separates it from the others, from your subjective opinion? Everything is subjective I suppose, when it comes to speakers and sound, but I'm interested in your personal subjective opinion.

So if anyone has an opinion on one or all of these speakers, I can definitely use the information to take into consideration as I make the decision as to what speaker I'm going to buy.

I have the stock Seventy/80 in two of my amps. I play cd's thru one of the amps when I play my drums and it sounds very excellent in reproducing the music on the cd's, clear, strong, articulate. The stock speaker in that amp was cheap junk and cd's sounded mushy and distorted. I couldn't believe how much better the amp sounds with the Seventy/80.

However, I want to find an even nicer sounding speaker for my DSL40c. I'd like the subjective opinions of some of you that have tried out some other speakers in your DSL's.

Thanks for any and all feedback.


----------



## lafromla1

Duffy49 said:


> I am waiting for my DSL40c to arrive - backordered. I have been waiting for several weeks. Anyway, I have a speaker question specifically related to the DSL40c.
> 
> I have the stock Seventy/80 in two of my amps. I play cd's thru one of the amps when I play my drums and it sounds very excellent in reproducing the music on the cd's, clear, strong, articulate. The stock speaker in that amp was cheap junk and cd's sounded mushy and distorted. I couldn't believe how much better the amp sounds with the Seventy/80.
> 
> However, I want to find an even nicer sounding speaker for my DSL40c. I'd like the subjective opinions of some of you that have tried out some other speakers in your DSL's.
> 
> Thanks for any and all feedback.



So far the stock speaker is sounding just fine to me. There are some clips here after 3 months of stock speaker break in (not my clips, just sharing):
http://www.marshallforum.com/marshall-amps/58416-dsl40c-after-speaker-break-3-months.html


----------



## lafromla1

Ordered my side handles today. Should be here in a few days.....


----------



## Micky

As I have mentioned previously in this thread, I replaced the Seventy/80 in my 40c with an Eminence Texas Heat.

That and the Eminence Swamp Thang are my two favorite speakers. The Swamp Thang especially because it is an ultra-efficient 102.3 db sensitivity speaker. The Texas Heat is 100.2 db, and the Seventy/80 is 98 db. This means quite a bit in terms of perceived volume levels, the Texas Heat will sound twice as loud as the Seventy/80 and the Swamp Thang will sound twice as loud as the Texas Heat. This is an important consideration depending on the application of the amplifier.

For example, if you play out, especially outdoors without micing the amp, an efficient speaker is a requirement. If you are a bedroom player and not concerned about loud, then an inefficient speaker fits the bill. To me this is a primary consideration.

Next is frequency response, and the resonant frequency of the speaker. You can look these specs up on their websites, I think Eminence even has sound clips as well. The Seventy/80 is an 85hz speaker, the Texas Heat is 91hz and the Swamp Thang is 113hz as far as resonant frequency is concerned.

Power handling is immaterial, all will handle everything the 40c can dish out, even with everything maxed. So it boils down to what it SOUNDS like.

I have found the Seventy/80 lacks a bit of bass in comparison to the others, and may take longer to break in. I truly love the Texas Heat in the 40c, it adds a bit of bass that the original was lacking and seems less 'brittle' or 'bright' than the original speaker. I run my bass at 8, mid at 5 and treble at 5 normally.

Because the Texas Heat is so efficient, I find myself using 20W mode a lot more often, unless I am playing outdoors or need to use the clean really loud.

Please remember that these are only MY observations, yours will probably be different. There are so many different guitar combinations and pickup differences there is bound to be some very subjective differences between setups.


----------



## ibmorjamn

Micky said:


> As I have mentioned previously in this thread, I replaced the Seventy/80 in my 40c with an Eminence Texas Heat.
> 
> That and the Eminence Swamp Thang are my two favorite speakers. The Swamp Thang especially because it is an ultra-efficient 102.3 db sensitivity speaker. The Texas Heat is 100.2 db, and the Seventy/80 is 98 db. This means quite a bit in terms of perceived volume levels, the Texas Heat will sound twice as loud as the Seventy/80 and the Swamp Thang will sound twice as loud as the Texas Heat. This is an important consideration depending on the application of the amplifier.
> 
> For example, if you play out, especially outdoors without micing the amp, an efficient speaker is a requirement. If you are a bedroom player and not concerned about loud, then an inefficient speaker fits the bill. To me this is a primary consideration.
> 
> Next is frequency response, and the resonant frequency of the speaker. You can look these specs up on their websites, I think Eminence even has sound clips as well. The Seventy/80 is an 85hz speaker, the Texas Heat is 91hz and the Swamp Thang is 113hz as far as resonant frequency is concerned.
> 
> Power handling is immaterial, all will handle everything the 40c can dish out, even with everything maxed. So it boils down to what it SOUNDS like.
> 
> I have found the Seventy/80 lacks a bit of bass in comparison to the others, and may take longer to break in. I truly love the Texas Heat in the 40c, it adds a bit of bass that the original was lacking and seems less 'brittle' or 'bright' than the original speaker. I run my bass at 8, mid at 5 and treble at 5 normally.
> 
> Because the Texas Heat is so efficient, I find myself using 20W mode a lot more often, unless I am playing outdoors or need to use the clean really loud.
> 
> Please remember that these are only MY observations, yours will probably be different. There are so many different guitar combinations and pickup differences there is bound to be some very subjective differences between setups.



I just picked up a Texas heat, its sounds good so far but I have not cranked it.


----------



## Micky

You are gonna love it...
Cranked mine yesterday.

Riding home, the Scorpions come on the radio, Rock You Like A Hurricane. One of my favorite bands & songs. I haven't played it in years. So.....

No one is home. I think I remember the chords... Power up the DSL...
40W mode, crunch channel, gain on 10, volume on 5. Pick up the LP, plugged in, turned up the guitar... And OMFG! Talk about loud. Plus, I nailed it.

Now Scorps tone is nothing special, but I just could not believe I could play a song and get it right straight outta the box!

Restores my faith in the DSL as well as my memory...


----------



## ibmorjamn

Micky said:


> You are gonna love it...
> Cranked mine yesterday.
> 
> Riding home, the Scorpions come on the radio, Rock You Like A Hurricane. One of my favorite bands & songs. I haven't played it in years. So.....
> 
> No one is home. I think I remember the chords... Power up the DSL...
> 40W mode, crunch channel, gain on 10, volume on 5. Pick up the LP, plugged in, turned up the guitar... And OMFG! Talk about loud. Plus, I nailed it.
> 
> Now Scorps tone is nothing special, but I just could not believe I could play a song and get it right straight outta the box!
> 
> Restores my faith in the DSL as well as my memory...


I like the scorps to. "Can't live with out you " is one I really like as well.
I got some tubes from Marty, Raytheon black plate and sylvania gray plate. I have them in just need to crank it today.


----------



## CRunCH

[oops...double posted]


----------



## CRunCH

ucnick said:


> Thanks. This little guy really impresses me, and I am hard to impress, as I change up amps pretty frequently trying to find a good one. Had a beat-up plexi head and a 4X12 years ago, had great lead sound (especially when driven hard with a tubescreamer) but clean not too hot, and just got tired of lugging it around, smaller and simpler better for me anymore. This little guy can really get that "Marshall" sound I crave for leads and crunchy rhythms, responds very well to rolling down the guitar volume, and actually does pretty fair cleans too, especially at full power, we're not talking Fender squeaky clean but if you keep the gain low and the volume up it works pretty well, decent headroom. I kept telling my wife as we drove back last Friday night "I love that amp!", and well I guess I do. I think I will try the Gold Lion ECC83 in V1 per the tubestore recommendation, more of that on the tech thread. Anyway, I think it's a keeper, until somethng better comes along.


 
The Gold Lion in V1 shouldn't disappoint. I put one in my 100 h and it made all the difference. That was after a Merc OT and 3H choke mod using (I think stock) Shugaung across the board. Winged C in the power section. The OT/choke tightened it up like a torque wrench, but the GL in V1 made it sing. My final roll on pre's though was Northern Electric in V1, GL in V2, Tung Sol in V3, and GE JAN 5751 for phase inverter. It's cream-your-pants tone, and the GE makes the amp quiet as a ghost fart.


----------



## ibmorjamn

choke sounds interesting also. Bummer for me is I got the extended 3 year warranty so modding is out of the question right now.


----------



## paradox

Glad to see all the interest still going strong in this amp!!!

I have been side tracked from mine for a while due to several reasons,
busy as heck with work and family, every time I take mine out I also bring my DSL401 and stick with that, and I got an SL5 that now gets used for home practice (even used it miked up for a house party...lol).

I would still like to:
1. Wire up LEDs in my footswitch as Roger has done since this amp just won't take normal foot switches. I'm sure the 9v will last a while! This is a major help for not having to look behind in the darkness or whatever to come out right at the beginning of a tune - even when its just the smoky garage (after a few beers)!

Rodger, I didn't open up my FS - does it have DPDTs in there or do I have to buy them?

2. I want to have a go at swapping more tubes both pre's and power.
3. I like the side handle idea (was that Micky that did it?), maybe one day if I get brave.
4. Use it at a JAM! To date, I keep just taking the DSL401 out of the truck and saying next time to the DSL40C leaving it in the truck - I seem to be 'stuck' on the tone of my 401 as I run mine hot and it just sings. It has become part of my style, but I would also like to 'grow' abit and change up my sound. I even mentioned somewhere here maybe I should just buy a backup DSL401 so you can tell how much I like 401s.

I forget where but I was asked somewhere here to do a step by step post on biasing, is that still needed or do we have it here somewhere???? If not I will do it when my new power tubes come in. I seem remember that physically looking at the board for L-R orientation between pots and tubes they are reversed!

Carry on!!!


----------



## Roger Tyria

paradox said:


> Glad to see all the interest still going strong in this amp!!!
> 
> I have been side tracked from mine for a while due to several reasons,
> busy as heck with work and family, every time I take mine out I also bring my DSL401 and stick with that, and I got an SL5 that now gets used for home practice (even used it miked up for a house party...lol).
> 
> I would still like to:
> 1. Wire up LEDs in my footswitch as Roger has done since this amp just won't take normal foot switches. I'm sure the 9v will last a while! This is a major help for not having to look behind in the darkness or whatever to come out right at the beginning of a tune - even when its just the smoky garage (after a few beers)!
> 
> Rodger, I didn't open up my FS - does it have DPDTs in there or do I have to buy them?
> 
> 2. I want to have a go at swapping more tubes both pre's and power.
> 3. I like the side handle idea (was that Micky that did it?), maybe one day if I get brave.
> 4. Use it at a JAM! To date, I keep just taking the DSL401 out of the truck and saying next time to the DSL40C leaving it in the truck - I seem to be 'stuck' on the tone of my 401 as I run mine hot and it just sings. It has become part of my style, but I would also like to 'grow' abit and change up my sound. I even mentioned somewhere here maybe I should just buy a backup DSL401 so you can tell how much I like 401s.
> 
> I forget where but I was asked somewhere here to do a step by step post on biasing, is that still needed or do we have it here somewhere???? If not I will do it when my new power tubes come in. I seem remember that physically looking at the board for L-R orientation between pots and tubes they are reversed!
> 
> Carry on!!!


paradox,
You will need to upgrade to DPDT switches in there it comes stock with SP's.
I also added a 2.1mm jack (Kobiconn or equiv DC power jack) on my fs
Pedal Parts Plus DC Power Connector: Pedal Parts Plus: Kobiconn D/C Power Jacks 
so I just use a jumper on my stomp box PS to power it up. LED's really help when the amp is behind you.

To the same end, I have a design ready to put in for the 4 button switch but this will be a pretty involved mod and wondering if it is really worth the major surgery to make it work? As Micky and others have stated the volume differences between Channels amd Modes almost dictates that some sort of user adjustment is made available to dial in comparable levels for all 4 modes when using the ft sw upgrade. To do this will require even more additions.

I would guess parts, and labor to make this a fully functional 4 button switch would be approaching the $ 250 - $ 300 price range.

I'd really like to hear other feedback on what others think about the advantages of having ft sw control over Channel and Mode and even Loop on / off vs. the associated costs involved to get there?


----------



## ibmorjamn

Price is getting steep. i won't pay $100 for a pedal ( haven't yet anyway, never say never)
Carvin makes a nice XLR foot switch with 3 switches. I wonder if it could be used for parts ?


----------



## Roger Tyria

Problem is Marshall didn't make any provisions in the new DSL to be able to make a connection to a FS for modes, all happens with the front panel PB's. An add on relay board and interface connections need to be made to the PCB where the PB switches are now connected.
I have looked at it several differnt ways, but really no way to get there without a fairly major retro to the design. 
The new FS will require at least 6 pin DIN connector to have functions and LED's for each switch.


----------



## dave999z

Great info, Roger.

So, on the classic channel, what is the volume difference between clean mode and crunch mode? (Similarly, on the ultra channel, what is the volume difference between lead1 mode and lead2 mode?) If the volume difference is so great that as a practical matter you'd never switch modes during a song without also having to adjust the gain or master dial, then there is no real point in being able to change modes via footswitch.

Also, volume aside, unless your preferred SOUND happens to use the same gain and master dial settings for both modes, there is no real utility in being able to change modes via footswitch.

I originally thought it'd be great to have a 4 button footswitch and treat this as a 4 channel amp. But it's just not a 4 channel amp. That'd be a JVM. This even shares EQ between the two channels it does have.

I'm not knocking the amp at all. Still really want one, and am considering just using it like a one channel amp (probably leave it on classic channel, not sure which mode, probably clean) with a good overdrive pedal in front of it to switch from clean to dirty.

I'll never understand the footswitchable reverb. Just seems pointless to me.


----------



## Rocktane

From what I have read, the foot-switchable mode mods for the JCM2000 DSL's have mode volume pots available. It seems to me that a volume pot would be needed to switch from clean to crunch, but not necessarily for the UG1 to UG2. However, it would be a nice option to be used as a volume boost for leads.

http://www.marshallforum.com/workbench/8904-marshall-dsl-50-100-clean-crunch-footswitch-last.html


----------



## Duffy49

My new DSL40C arrived today and it is set up at my side in my playing area and is in the company of my DRRI, DSL100H, Vox Valvetronix VT30, Blackheart Little Giant head, and Peavey Delta Blues. My Vox AC15C1 is across the room and is also a very nice amp.

After preliminarily adjusting the controls on the 40 I plugged in the guitar and played my first notes on the fully warmed up amp. Wow. This amp sounds really good. I don't know what the cause is but it sounds great and may be more useable stock than the 100H. It is a brand new 2013 version and maybe Marshall addressed the Lead 1 and 2 voices, because they are both highly useable at even high volume playing thru my Lonestar strats "Pearly Gates" full sized humbucker. It doesn't sound over gainy, harsh, and has a beautiful overdriven sound to it. Even the green channel overdrives easily and has really beautiful overdrive.

The other factor that could be influencing the, to my ear, improved sound compared to my 100H, could be that the Celestion Seventy/80 in the combo might be a far nicer sounding speaker than the Epiphone Eminence designed "Lady Luck" speakers in my four by twelve Epi closed back cabinet. In fact I'm going to put a "Swamp Thang" or something into my one/twelve Epi Valve Jr. extension cabinet and I think that I will be very happy with that sound - as an experiment. Then, possibly, I'll put a Governor or something in the DSL40C.

A question here - if I put one, only, 8 ohm Swamp Thang in my Epi one/twelve cab, can I plug it into one of the 8 ohm jacks on the back of my DSL40C and use the 16 ohm internal speaker at the same time? Or do I need to use a 16 ohm speaker in the cabinet or "two" 8 ohm extension speakers?

It would be nice to have an 8 ohm cab that I can use with my Fender's also, but I definitely want to do it right, so if I need to put a 16 ohm Swamp Thang into my Epi one/twelve cab, I'll be sure to do it - and worry about a cab for my Fender's later.

Back to the 40. I have waited it for at least two months. When my approx. six month old JMD had been warranty repaired three times and was still broke down, I thought about calling Marshall and asking them if they would let me send it back and exchange it for a new amp, like the DSL40C. When I mentioned the idea to my local Marshall dealer (I didn't buy the JMD from him) he offered to call Marshall for me and tell them that it would probably be a good idea to exchange my amp for the DSL40C and keep me happy because I was depending on my amp and that I was talking to people about how I wasn't happy about the JMD breaking down all the time. He said Marshall cares about the impression people get of their products and their product support.

It worked. His Marshall contact called one of his colleagues and set up a phone call for me to make. I called the guy and he sent me a RA number, emailed it to me and I didn't have to pay shipping back to Marshall. I took it to UPS, dropped it off and they placed an order for the new DSL40C when they received the amp back at the Mississippi warehouse. This is a brand new DSL40C, not a refurbished one - that is why I had to wait. Marshall really took good care of me.

As much as I liked the two/twelve JMD combo when it worked, my initial impression is that I appreciate the sounds I'm getting out of the DSL40C better than the JMD. It just has that powerful "tube" vibe going on in the tone. It has power and depth and sensitivity with great responsiveness. All of the voices sound very useable and the amp just sounds beautiful. I really hope it will be a lot more dependable than the JMD that I had one problem after another with. Maybe it was due to my warranty repair man not being on top of his game, I don't know. I won't be going back to him. Irregardless, this amp sounds super good; and, as I said, not exactly like my 100H - probably due to the "Lady Luck" speakers in the cabinets, but the Lead 1 and 2 voices are definitely a lot more usable, even at high gain and high volume, low gain and low volume, etc.

Obviously I'm totally happy to have the new amp to play. It is even a nicer amp than I thought it would be, in my experience. Now I will be spending some time trying out some of my other guitars thru it.

Some of you know that I've been waiting for this amp for a while, and I'm glad to be able to provide my initial impression of this beautiful amp.


----------



## Roger Tyria

dave999z said:


> Great info, Roger.
> 
> So, on the classic channel, what is the volume difference between clean mode and crunch mode? (Similarly, on the ultra channel, what is the volume difference between lead1 mode and lead2 mode?) If the volume difference is so great that as a practical matter you'd never switch modes during a song without also having to adjust the gain or master dial, then there is no real point in being able to change modes via footswitch.
> 
> Also, volume aside, unless your preferred SOUND happens to use the same gain and master dial settings for both modes, there is no real utility in being able to change modes via footswitch.
> 
> I originally thought it'd be great to have a 4 button footswitch and treat this as a 4 channel amp. But it's just not a 4 channel amp. That'd be a JVM. This even shares EQ between the two channels it does have.
> 
> I'm not knocking the amp at all. Still really want one, and am considering just using it like a one channel amp (probably leave it on classic channel, not sure which mode, probably clean) with a good overdrive pedal in front of it to switch from clean to dirty.
> 
> I'll never understand the footswitchable reverb. Just seems pointless to me.


dave,
1. The perceived volume difference is pretty pronounced on the Classic channel. Reading through this thread there are several comments about the volume differences on the Classic channel, as well as what seems to be a lot of interest in being able to switch modes via foot switch. As an example if gain is at 4-5 to match volume levels Clean Vol @ 8 = Crunch @ 4>>. Again this is my perception so I never really use the clean mode because of this.

2. I use the amp as a 2 channel set up. Set up my Crunch to a manageable amount of gain slight breakup when pushed and hitting the strings hard, roll off guitar vol and it cleans up pretty decent without a large loss of volume. I then set up Ultra G1 for my OD channel dial up the gain a bit and adjust the volume so it can be used as a lead boost like Rocktane suggested below. So it really is a GREAT 2 channel amp. The only down side is the shared EQ. I use the EQ function on my ME70 and adjust to taste to get what I need so I can switch that in when needed. ( When I bought the DSL I really hoped to not ever have to use any OD pedals, but in the real world I can't get the range I need with amp alone)

Rocktane,
You are right about probably needing seprate volume and probably gain pots for the Classic channel. As you said it may not be necessary on the Ultra channel, but keeping volume and gain settings the same and just toggling the front switch between modes on this channel would tell the story.

The link you posted for the JCM2000 DSL is very similar to what I came up with for the new DSL.

Just trying to find out what others think, and where the need may be to have this expanded functionality for the new DSL.

All said I think most will agree this is a great amp!

Thanx


----------



## paradox

Roger Tyria said:


> paradox,
> ...You will need to upgrade to DPDT switches in there it comes stock with SP's.
> I also added a 2.1mm jack (Kobiconn or equiv DC power jack) on my fs
> Pedal Parts Plus DC Power Connector: Pedal Parts Plus: Kobiconn D/C Power Jacks
> so I just use a jumper on my stomp box PS to power it up. LED's really help when the amp is behind you.



Thanks Rodger! I did open up the pedal the other day to find the SPDT's in there. I already ordered two DPDTs, so I'm good. Just have to find the time to do it! I'm with ya on the LEDs - they are a necessity!
Thanks for the idea on the 2.1mm jack, I should have one around from my stomp box build stuff. That's a great idea!

I have some ideas in my head for the FS issue. I'm really thinking I would just want Clean - Crunch - OD selection (won't go between OD1/OD2 - just use FP selection). I'm trying to think outside the box here and will report back if I have something good.


----------



## Pumpkin88

I've had this amp for about 5 months now, love the sound. It took some trial and error but I finally have everything dialed in where I think it sounds best. As great as the OD channels are, I've been using the clean channel 90% of the time with extra pedals for distortion. I've found this amp sounds best when you have all the dials turned up fairly high. I have the Treble set at 1-2 o'clock, Bass 1-2 o'clock, Mids 11 o'clock. Tone shift engaged with presence and residence set at 2 o'clock. Interestingly, I believe this has already been mentioned, but I found that if you want more overall volume on the classic gain channel you need to turn up the gain as well. For bedroom use I keep them both at 4 o'clock. When I want move the amp to a bigger room in the house I'll turn the gain up to 12-1 o'clock, volume at 1-2 o'clock (keep them fairly even for the most part). Only complaint I have with this amp is the foot switch as others have said. Its almost useless, especially the reverb. Other than that minor complaint its a great amp, sounds amazing. Haven't found a need to swap out the stock speaker yet, very in love with the tone I'm getting right now.


----------



## Duffy49

Pumpkin88 said:


> I've had this amp for about 5 months now, love the sound. It took some trial and error but I finally have everything dialed in where I think it sounds best. As great as the OD channels are, I've been using the clean channel 90% of the time with extra pedals for distortion. I've found this amp sounds best when you have all the dials turned up fairly high. I have the Treble set at 1-2 o'clock, Bass 1-2 o'clock, Mids 11 o'clock. Tone shift engaged with presence and residence set at 2 o'clock. Interestingly, I believe this has already been mentioned, but I found that if you want more overall volume on the classic gain channel you need to turn up the gain as well. For bedroom use I keep them both at 4 o'clock. When I want move the amp to a bigger room in the house I'll turn the gain up to 12-1 o'clock, volume at 1-2 o'clock (keep them fairly even for the most part). Only complaint I have with this amp is the foot switch as others have said. Its almost useless, especially the reverb. Other than that minor complaint its a great amp, sounds amazing. Haven't found a need to swap out the stock speaker yet, very in love with the tone I'm getting right now.[/QUOTE
> 
> I just got my DSL40C, brand new, 2013, yesterday. I have been investigating the speakers that I have been thinking about replacing the Seventy/80 with. After listening to the new amp, completely unbroken in, I like the sound of the stock speaker significantly better than the speakers in my Epiphone cabinets that I'm using with my Marshall DSL100H head; that are Eminence designed "Lady Luck" speakers made for Epiphone and used in the four by twelve Southern Cal. cabinet.
> 
> With this observation in mind, I think I'll leave the stock Seventy/80 in the DSL40C at least until it is well broken in. The amp produces some very remarkable clean and overdriven sounds with the stock speaker. I like that beautiful woody overdrive sound I get with both humbuckers and single coil strats.


----------



## Roger Tyria

Thought I'd share these shots of the DSL foot switch after LED's and DC power jack was installed.


----------



## saxon68

Duffy49 said:


> Pumpkin88 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've had this amp for about 5 months now, love the sound. It took some trial and error but I finally have everything dialed in where I think it sounds best. As great as the OD channels are, I've been using the clean channel 90% of the time with extra pedals for distortion. I've found this amp sounds best when you have all the dials turned up fairly high. I have the Treble set at 1-2 o'clock, Bass 1-2 o'clock, Mids 11 o'clock. Tone shift engaged with presence and residence set at 2 o'clock. Interestingly, I believe this has already been mentioned, but I found that if you want more overall volume on the classic gain channel you need to turn up the gain as well. For bedroom use I keep them both at 4 o'clock. When I want move the amp to a bigger room in the house I'll turn the gain up to 12-1 o'clock, volume at 1-2 o'clock (keep them fairly even for the most part). Only complaint I have with this amp is the foot switch as others have said. Its almost useless, especially the reverb. Other than that minor complaint its a great amp, sounds amazing. Haven't found a need to swap out the stock speaker yet, very in love with the tone I'm getting right now.[/QUOTE
> 
> I just got my DSL40C, brand new, 2013, yesterday. I have been investigating the speakers that I have been thinking about replacing the Seventy/80 with. After listening to the new amp, completely unbroken in, I like the sound of the stock speaker significantly better than the speakers in my Epiphone cabinets that I'm using with my Marshall DSL100H head; that are Eminence designed "Lady Luck" speakers made for Epiphone and used in the four by twelve Southern Cal. cabinet.
> 
> With this observation in mind, I think I'll leave the stock Seventy/80 in the DSL40C at least until it is well broken in. The amp produces some very remarkable clean and overdriven sounds with the stock speaker. I like that beautiful woody overdrive sound I get with both humbuckers and single coil strats.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's mine after about 3 months, all stock:
> 
> DSL40C with Charvel DC-1ST - YouTube
Click to expand...


----------



## House

Is there an *LED* outfitted foot switch available for the DSL 40c?


----------



## davidcatpi

Hey guys, I posted this in some other place but I noticed there's a lot of techies around in this thread and thought about giving it a shot.

I also have a DSL 40C unmodded. It has been a great amp since February until a few days ago when I noticed a low level kind of squealing, random in it's pitch. You could think of it as the singing of an electric bird, and it stops randomly for a period of time and it only happens in pentode mode. It is independent of FX Loop, gain, volume, it's not affected by the EQ controls, It just sounds the same regardless of what you do (except that it goes away in triode mode).

At first, I thought it was some kind of "electrical interference" but I already checked around and there's nothing to support that theory.

I'm thinking power tubes needs a replacement. What you guys think?


----------



## Micky

I would swap some preamp tubes first, but you may be on to something noting that it only happens in pentode mode.


----------



## Roger Tyria

davidcatpi said:


> Hey guys, I posted this in some other place but I noticed there's a lot of techies around in this thread and thought about giving it a shot.
> 
> I also have a DSL 40C unmodded. It has been a great amp since February until a few days ago when I noticed a low level kind of squealing, random in it's pitch. You could think of it as the singing of an electric bird, and it stops randomly for a period of time and it only happens in pentode mode. It is independent of FX Loop, gain, volume, it's not affected by the EQ controls, It just sounds the same regardless of what you do (except that it goes away in triode mode).
> 
> At first, I thought it was some kind of "electrical interference" but I already checked around and there's nothing to support that theory.
> 
> I'm thinking power tubes needs a replacement. What you guys think?


I assume it does it on either Channel as well?
What about reverb controls and On / Off via ft sw.

After you have tried all options / channels on off and, swap pre's like Micky said then maybe EL34's ?

Maybe just unplug / clean the EL34's if you don't have a set to try.

Also have you opened it up to check bias, do you feel comfortable doing that?

If so you could start there and make a few voltage measurements if the tube swapping and elimination troubleshooting doesn't prove out a possible reason.

Good Luck

Sunday 7/14:
Had one other thought, you probably already checked this as you said there was no source of interference around the amp. You don't have a Laptop charger or PC sitting anywhere close the amp or cables. or even plugged into the same power circuit as the amp?
I have one that is very noisy, and if I put my guitar close to it or one of my cables gets close I hear something similar to what your are reporting. Anyway not sure but the thought just crossed my mind.


----------



## paradox

Thought we were jamming tonite (got cancelled...bummer) - but I have been wanting to give this a try. I had put in some Rubys in V1 and V2 (12AX7AC7 HG), but have really been wanting to try some SED EL34s in the amp. I got them in early today, but a fully cranked test will have to come later. We make these subtle changes in the chase for tone, but I have noticed already on the clean/crunch a perceived added chime I'm looking for. A/Bing would be the best but I have only one DSL40C!

I think that most here that want to bias this amp already have the knowledge, but there are a few items worth noting.

I reference everything on the board as viewed from the front of the amp (controls facing you).

CONN 5 has a reverse layout compared to TRIM 1 and TRIM 2 pots.

CONN 5 pins 1-2 are the testpoint for V7 which is TRIM1
These are the two rightmost pins of CONN 5 - used with TRIM1 that is on the left

CONN 5 pins 2-3 are the testpoint for V8 which is TRIM2
These are the two leftmost pins of CONN 5 - used with TRIM2 that is on the right
(note the DSL40C doesn't have a V5&V6)

Turning trim pots clockwise reduces bias current (and voltage reading)
Turning trim pots counterclockwise increase bias current (and voltage reading)

I noticed a post earlier where someone said they were turning one of the trim pots and had no change, the backwards layout may have been to blame.

I also found that when I just tossed in the tubes and fired up I was running at about 47ma, no two tubes are alike and maybe one should lower the bias (turning pots clockwise some) before powering up the first time with new tubes installed.

In anycase, my starting point for biasing these tubes is 38.5ma (38.5mv on testpoints). This is just going with the basics of a 452v plate voltage and wanting to bias around %70 of a 25watt tube. I actually think this is hot for this amp as its spec'd as a 40watter, but I like tubes hotter.

Some pics

The SEDs compared to the stock Sinos





Installed





Hooked up to check V7 (adjust TRIM 1 - read CONN 5 pins 1 and 2)





Close enough to 38.5 - left it sitting for 10minutes while checking either tube
to watch for drift, seems ok.





Checking the tubes, no redplating





Turned it off, and let it cool for quite awhile (restrung a guitar and set it up), 
then put it all together.

When I get a chance to really crank it, I'll report back to see if I just wasted my cash...lol.. At the volumes I can run in a full house the cleans are promising (I can get away with playing clean, going full blast Montrose doesn't alway make for a happy wife. Hopefully we will be on for JAM night next Sat.

I did get an extra set of SEDs since I was placing an order, set me back almost $150 for 4 of these. At least I have a spare set if these work out or I can try ONE in the SL5!

For now with the exception of adding LEDs to the FS, I'm just ready to play this thing more! New pre's, new power tubes, replacement speaker - its just got to be better than stock and worth it, right?


----------



## davidcatpi

Good news, good news.

I grabbed a new Mullard 12AX7 that I had around and a couple Marshall branded EL34s (JJs) that I kept after retubing my DSL 100. Those power tubes are 7 years old I think lol.

So I put them in the DSL40C replacing V1 and power tubes. It's been 30min and no weird noises whatsoever , I haven't rebiased the amp, too lazy for taking out the electronics at this moment.

Funny and happy thing is that I'm guessing that the tonal variation I'm perceiving comes from the Mullard itself. I'm noticing a bit less saturation with my regular amp settings but pull-offs / hammer-ons are quite more articulated even when crancking the gain. It feels like if I put a compressor along the signal chain. I'm still figuring out if I like it or not.


----------



## kingbee

Roger Tyria said:


> Thought I'd share these shots of the DSL foot switch after LED's and DC power jack was installed.



Roger modded my Marshall footswitch for my DSL40C with a single Red/Green LED for the channels and a Blue LED for my Reverb. Both power options with a little toggle switch to turn off the battery. The pedal is awesome and works great! Thanks Roger!


----------



## Pkdawg

Does the C19 mod change both channels on channel 2 or just the ultra?


----------



## Micky

Only the Ultra channel.


----------



## Roger Tyria

kingbee said:


> Roger modded my Marshall footswitch for my DSL40C with a single Red/Green LED for the channels and a Blue LED for my Reverb. Both power options with a little toggle switch to turn off the battery. The pedal is awesome and works great! Thanks Roger!


Thanks Kingbee, I'm glad it's working well.
Lights in the foot switch are a nice feature, wish Marshall had made provision to power them from the amp. But Battery / 9v PS sems to work ok!

Thanks Again!


----------



## Micky

Just for kicks, I decided to try my Marshall Haze footswitch on my DSL40c tonite (PEDL-90009).

Lo and behold, the leds for channel switching and reverb both light up when switching via the footswitch. So there is power present on the footswitch jack...

Unfortunately neither switch activated anything on the DSL. The DSL40c uses footswitch PEDL-00009 (and has NO leds...).

I guess I am gonna have to pull the Haze footswitch apart to see what could possibly be going on there.

I forgot to try the DSL footswitch on the Haze...


----------



## bridge500t

does any one know what cover of any of the other combo amps that Marshall makes will fit the DSL40?


----------



## Roger Tyria

bridge:
MF has them but pretty steep at $80
Marshall COVR00116 Combo Amp Cover | Sweetwater.com


----------



## Roger Tyria

Micky said:


> Just for kicks, I decided to try my Marshall Haze footswitch on my DSL40c tonite (PEDL-90009).
> 
> Lo and behold, the leds for channel switching and reverb both light up when switching via the footswitch. So there is power present on the footswitch jack...
> 
> Unfortunately neither switch activated anything on the DSL. The DSL40c uses footswitch PEDL-00009 (and has NO leds...).
> 
> I guess I am gonna have to pull the Haze footswitch apart to see what could possibly be going on there.
> 
> I forgot to try the DSL footswitch on the Haze...


They are using a +5v logic supply to provide inputs to a AT2313 processor for channel and reverb switching. So there is a small voltage available in the switch lines until the switch is closed. The sleeve on the jack is grounded and is used as a common for both switch lines back to the amp. At that point the voltage is dropped across the pull up resistors and no voltage is left to power the LED's.
Thanks for the info Micky. 
Power for the LED's CAN come from the amp but would require changing the TRS jack to maybe a 4 pin DIN connector or something similar!


----------



## bridge500t

Roger Tyria said:


> bridge:
> MF has them but pretty steep at $80
> Marshall COVR00116 Combo Amp Cover | Sweetwater.com



yeah, that is pretty spendy for a cover. Thanks for the info though, it is appreciated!


----------



## kingbee

I think a little cheaper here:
Marshall AmplificationDSL40 Combo Cover


----------



## Roger Tyria

kingbee said:


> I think a little cheaper here:
> Marshall AmplificationDSL40 Combo Cover


Good call, how does ordering from Marshall website work?
Do they ship from the UK or from US distributors? With the current exchange rate the cover is about $ 60 US.


----------



## Duffy49

Roger Tyria said:


> Good call, how does ordering from Marshall website work?
> Do they ship from the UK or from US distributors? With the current exchange rate the cover is about $ 60 US.


 

Why not buy some fabric of your choice and have a seamstress make you one to your specifications. Black and gold would totally have the potential of looking very nice..


----------



## Micky

Roger Tyria said:


> They are using a +5v logic supply to provide inputs to a AT2313 processor for channel and reverb switching. So there is a small voltage available in the switch lines until the switch is closed. The sleeve on the jack is grounded and is used as a common for both switch lines back to the amp. At that point the voltage is dropped across the pull up resistors and no voltage is left to power the LED's.
> Thanks for the info Micky.
> Power for the LED's CAN come from the amp but would require changing the TRS jack to maybe a 4 pin DIN connector or something similar!



So the DSL uses 5V, and the Haze uses 12V, do you think a different resistor might provide enough pull-up voltage to switch modes?

If you get adventurous, plug in the FS and put a resistor and LED across the switch...


----------



## kingbee

Roger Tyria said:


> Good call, how does ordering from Marshall website work?
> Do they ship from the UK or from US distributors? With the current exchange rate the cover is about $ 60 US.



Shipped from UK I think. I ordered the bag/case for my Class 5 this way when I still owned it.


----------



## sellen

So can i run this combo with a 8 ohm 2*12 cabinet?. I mean with the combo speaker as well.
This is what the manual says"8. & 9. 8Ω SPEAKER OUTPUTS
For use when the total impedance of the speaker 
cabinet(s) being used is 8Ω. That is, when using 
either 1 x 8Ω cab or 2 x 16Ω cabs".

To me that seems like i can't run the 8 ohm cabinet with the combo speaker engaged.
Am i wrong?

BTW i don't own this amp, but i'm tempted


----------



## Micky

Correct, you can't.
The 40c does not have a 4-ohm output.

You can plug in a single 16-ohm speaker into the 16-ohm jack, or 2 X 16-ohm speakers into the 2 X 8-ohm jacks. Or a single 8-ohm speaker into a single 8-ohm jack.

From the DSL40c User Guide:

LOUDSPEAKER OUTPUTS ––––––––––––––––––––––––
IMPORTANT OPERATIONAL NOTE: With all-valve 
amplifiers it is imperative that the amp is connected 
to a load whilst in operation and that the impedance 
output(s) on the amp matches the total impedance 
of the speaker cabinet(s) being used.
Failure to comply with these points will result in damage to the amplifier.
The DSL40C features three outputs, a dedicated 16Ω output and two 8Ω outputs.
The DSL40C must not be run into an impedance less than 8Ω.
7. 16Ω SPEAKER OUTPUT
For the connection of a 16Ω speaker cabinet. It 
should be noted that when this Speaker Output is in 
use the remaining Speaker Outputs (8 & 9) are not operational.
8. & 9. 8Ω SPEAKER OUTPUTS
For use when the total impedance of the speaker 
cabinet(s) being used is 8Ω. That is, when using either 1 x 8Ω cab or 2 x 16Ω cabs.


----------



## Duffy49

Micky said:


> Correct, you can't.
> The 40c does not have a 4-ohm output.
> 
> You can plug in a single 16-ohm speaker into the 16-ohm jack, or 2 X 16-ohm speakers into the 2 X 8-ohm jacks. Or a single 8-ohm speaker into a single 8-ohm jack.
> 
> From the DSL40c User Guide:
> 
> LOUDSPEAKER OUTPUTS ––––––––––––––––––––––––
> IMPORTANT OPERATIONAL NOTE: With all-valve
> amplifiers it is imperative that the amp is connected
> to a load whilst in operation and that the impedance
> output(s) on the amp matches the total impedance
> of the speaker cabinet(s) being used.
> Failure to comply with these points will result in damage to the amplifier.
> The DSL40C features three outputs, a dedicated 16Ω output and two 8Ω outputs.
> The DSL40C must not be run into an impedance less than 8Ω.
> 7. 16Ω SPEAKER OUTPUT
> For the connection of a 16Ω speaker cabinet. It
> should be noted that when this Speaker Output is in
> use the remaining Speaker Outputs (8 & 9) are not operational.
> 8. & 9. 8Ω SPEAKER OUTPUTS
> For use when the total impedance of the speaker
> cabinet(s) being used is 8Ω. That is, when using either 1 x 8Ω cab or 2 x 16Ω cabs.


 

In order to see how my 16 ohm Epiphone four/twelve Lady Luck speaker cabinet will sound with my DSL40c, where do I have to plug the four/twelve cabinet in?

Do I need to unplug the combo's internal speaker and plug the four/twelve into that jack that is dedicated to the internal speaker? This way the internal speaker would not be being used, obviously. 

Feedback appreciated.


----------



## Micky

Yes, plug a single 16-ohm speaker into the single 16-ohm jack.
If you want to run them both, then plug them both into the 2 x 8-ohm jacks.


----------



## Roger Tyria

Micky said:


> So the DSL uses 5V, and the Haze uses 12V, do you think a different resistor might provide enough pull-up voltage to switch modes?
> 
> If you get adventurous, plug in the FS and put a resistor and LED across the switch...


Micky.. Did a little testing of the ft sw circuit this afternoon. I can put up to a 6.8K resistor in series with the switch leg and still pull in the relay. That gives about 2v across the resistor which would be in the ft sw. Tried connecting an LED across the 2v source to rtn (gnd) just a little dim light.
Measured the open circ voltage from the amp and it was around 4.9v.
Did an amp check and with ammeter making the switch connection I get about 0.5ma not enough drive to power an LED. The problem is the 10K pull up resistor is limiting the current draw on the 5v supply. Also checked and lowest current LED's I can find are @ 2ma. Don't think power for LED's can be taken from the 5v logic supply??


----------



## Micky

I was doing the math in my head after your first PM about this and was thinking it wasn't possible. Maybe 4K or so? 

I know for me it isn't a big deal, I just wondered for the rest of us...

I haven't had a chance to do much of anything this past week. Back to work, and then a weekend away and our anniversary on top of that (23 years) doesn't leave much time for anything. Worst part is I got some great tubes for the DSL from Marty and I haven't even had time to put them in.

Workin for a livin sux the big one...


----------



## themightyjaymoe

bridge500t said:


> does any one know what cover of any of the other combo amps that Marshall makes will fit the DSL40?



Marshall DSL40C 1x12 Combo Cover - Padded Marshall Amplifier and Speaker Covers by Tuki Covers [madsl40c1121] - $67.50 :: Tuki Covers - most reliable Amp covers and Speaker covers

They have amp covers for more than just Marshalls.


----------



## Roger Tyria

Micky said:


> I was doing the math in my head after your first PM about this and was thinking it wasn't possible. Maybe 4K or so?
> 
> I know for me it isn't a big deal, I just wondered for the rest of us...
> 
> I haven't had a chance to do much of anything this past week. Back to work, and then a weekend away and our anniversary on top of that (23 years) doesn't leave much time for anything. Worst part is I got some great tubes for the DSL from Marty and I haven't even had time to put them in.
> 
> Workin for a livin sux the big one...


Amen to the workin thing... Maybe another 10yrs and I can START to have a little more time for my stuff. 
The only thing that keeps me sane is R&R with the guitar and electronics challenges. Had pretty much quit playin for about 25 yrs. Got involved with our Church worship group about 2 years ago. I have learned so much new stuff, now that I'm older and out of the FOG I lived in during my 20's.

Congrats on 23 yrs just celebrated 12ys on round 2 for me.


----------



## Micky

Well now I am officially a cork-sniffer...

Marty put together a HOAD (Hell Of A Deal) for me, and now I am an Official owner of some vintage NOS glass. I hope he will check in here and give an explanation of what I now have installed in my DSL, as I cannot begin to detail what is in there. They arrived last week:






The big part of the deal was the TAD EL34B-STR power tubes. These things are amazing. He was kind enough to allow me to test these tubes as long as I provided a review. These aren't NOS by any means, they are just new. When he measures the transconductance for the pair I got, it was higher than normal. I think this attributed to one of the major features I noticed with these tubes.

New power tubes alone made two slight but definite differences. The first thing I noticed is that the cleans seemed louder. This was the first big thing I noticed. The second thing I noticed was that it 'woke up' my reverb. I have no idea how this could happen, or what could cause this. The reverb seemed deeper and more intense. Normally it is weak and unremarkable, but now it is actually usable.

Here is a photo of one of the TAD's:






Next up would be V1, a vintage Mullard:






I never thought I could afford one of these. Wicked gain, perfect for Classic Rock...

In V2 a Raytheon Black Plate:






V3 is a JAN GE 12AX7WA:






And V4 is a Sylvania Grey Plate:






Anyway, sorry for the long post, but this is one kick-ass combination in the DSL40c. I haven't have a lot of time to test this yet, but initially I can confirm this is an awesome setup. What really sold me was the bit of feedback on OD1 I got at a low volume level, a cool sound I always needed to crank it to obtain. Next post is close-ups of the Marshall-branded tubes I removed...


----------



## Micky

Well, since I had the amp chassis out, new tubes, and a camera, I shot some photos of the tubes that ship originally with the DSL40c.

From everything I have read, as well as the info I have gleaned from others these are Chinese Shugyang EL34B power tubes. They are Marshall labeled and have VLVE-00092 printed on them:






I am hoping Marty, Alan or some other expert can shed some light on these.

The preamp tubes are all similar, and I really haven't seen anything like them. They appear almost chrome-plated inside, and are also Marshall labeled with VLVE-00067 ECC83 printed on them:






I do truly hope someone can shed some light on these. They sounded fine in my amp, but now sit as spares.


----------



## MartyStrat54

Micky asked me to come over and give a little history on the tubes. 

As he stated, we had some members test the TAD EL34B's as there really wasn't much info on them and I thought it would be a good idea to get comments from our own members who actually used them. Overall, the TAD's were given above average reviews. Several of the testers were so impressed that they asked me to sell the tubes to them.

The TAD's are designed in Germany and then built in China to the German specifications. The TAD EL34B is exclusive to TAD. It is not the same as a Shuguang EL34B. My impression with TAD is their construction quality. These EL34's have extra strong military grade construction with gold plate grid. They also use a thicker glass envelope. 

They also are very high transconductance tubes. They pegged my tube tester. A tube with high transconductance will have a large change in plate current with a small change in grid voltage. This means that a tube with high transconductance will reach saturation and cutoff (clipping) much more easily (with smaller grid signals) than one with low transconductance.

Now let's talk about the preamp tubes.

Mullard I61-These tubes were made at the UK Blackburn plant in the early to mid 60's. They have a medium plate with a halo getter. These are what were used as OE tubes in the very first Marshall's. Mullard's were used in Marshall's until they ceased production. The Mullard in V1 is a great classic rock and hot blues tube. V1 is your most important tone tube. 

Raytheon Black Plate-These are some awesome tubes. They have the nickname of the "American Telefunken." While a Raytheon BP can be used in V1, I have found it really shines in V2 behind the Mullard or other premium European tubes. The BP is getting hard to find as they were only made between 1959 and 1964. The long black plates helps provide the unique tone of these tubes. This tube has a halo getter.

Please note that due to the design of a DSL amp, I highly recommend that V1 and V2 be high gain and the best tubes you can afford. Low noise is imperative in this amp.

GE JAN 12AX7WA-This is a "Joint Army/Navy" tube. Designed to take a lot of abuse in critical applications. Grey plates with halo getter. Half of the V3 slot is used for the cathode follower. Marshall CF circuits tend to be hard on 12AX7's due to the operating voltage. The GE JAN is about as good as it gets for the V3 slot.

Sylvania-This tube had the longest production run over any other US made preamp tube. These are very versatile tubes. I really like a lopsided, extra high gain Sylvania for the PI (V4) slot. 90 percent of used Sylvania's will test as high gain, or even higher. With a high gain tube of this type, it enhances the dynamics of the amp. Some feel that the PI is the most important tube. I feel that it is the second most important tube behind V1. If you like to play metal, this is the tube you will want to use in V1. Long gray plates with halo getter.

Please note that you do not need a balanced tube in the PI.

If you have any questions about these tubes send me a PM. I would be happy to discuss any questions that you have.

Marty


----------



## MartyStrat54

The DSL40 OE power tubes are Shuguang EL34B's.

The Marshall labeled preamp tube VLVE-90067 ECC83 is unique to this amp and there isn't much info on it. I will say that I believe it is a JJ and it appears that they are using uncoated plates compared to a regular JJ ECC83.

I don't know if these are made exclusively for Marshall and this particular amp. They are not for sale by any JJ vendor.

If I find out anymore on these, I will post it over here, but I'm almost 100 percent sure it is a JJ tube.


----------



## Duffy49

Great tube info to be aware of.

Even some of the amp techs around where I live don't know much about tubes and tube quality. So it is difficult to get good info on tubes from them. I have one good amp man around here that I can rely on, an independent operator retired from the Air Force, and amp builder.

I appreciate this info as I learn more about my tube amps.


----------



## Micky

I agree, this info is invaluable. Thanks Marty for the rundown, sorry I didn't thank you sooner, but with the start of school this week I have been pretty busy getting the computers (800 or so) ready for staff, faculty and students. Haven't even had a moment to plug into the DSL and give the new 50 year old tubes a REAL workout.

The OE ECC83 tubes will sit as spares, they definitely look uncoated, and I wonder how their appearance would change under normal use. They almost look 'chrome-plated' and the brief amount of time I put on the amp did not alter their appearance a single bit. (gotta admit, had been giving the Fender SFPR some attention lately...)

I do have to admit, the beast is dead quiet, I mean I know it is on, the noise floor is there but very, very low. No hum, very slight hiss but you have to turn everything off in the house to hear it. Quality stuff, and Marty has the corner on the market. PM him for much more info, and to get prices on these tubes. They rock!


----------



## num1dano

Hope this is right place for this "im new" ok i plugged in my dsl 40 into my 4/12 and did not unplug the 16 ohm cable to amp . All five speakers were sounding should i do this or will it hurt the amp? I thought i read that this cant happen
n due to a bypass when a extension cab is used?


----------



## Micky

Two 16-ohm loads should plug into the 2 8-ohm jacks.
The speakers connected in parallel are 8-ohms together.


----------



## Pasloade74

Micky said:


> Two 16-ohm loads should plug into the 2 8-ohm jacks.
> The speakers connected in parallel are 8-ohms together.



Hi Micky, I've been reading this thread tonight as I've had my DSL 40 since July. Love this amp and I'm still learning about it too. I installed a 16 ohm vintage 30 in it and I'd also like to run 1x12 cab loaded with 16 ohm Wizard. Should I just plug each speaker onto an 8 ohm jack? I'm a little confused. Thanks-Mike


----------



## ucnick

Hi - there are three jacks on the back: one jack for a single 16 ohm speaker (#7 in the user manual),which is connected to the 16 ohm tap from the OT, and two jacks which are wired in parallel and connected to the 8 ohm tap on the OT (#s 8 and 9 in the UM). To use the external speaker configuration, remove your combo speaker plug from the single 16 ohm jack (#7, where it normally is without an extension) and plug it into one of the 8 ohm connections (say #8), and plug the 16 ohm extension into the other (which would be #9). 

The combination of two 16 ohm speakers wired in parallel provides an equivalent impedance of 8 ohms which is matched to the 8 ohm OT tap. I do this whenever I need to push a little more air with my rig, woks fine.

When you remove the extension cab, you should move the combo speaker back to the 16 ohm jack #7, or else you will not get full power - if you leave it in there, the 8 ohm OT winding can drive the 16 ohm speaker but it is not matched and it will drop the max output power, and also it may result in the sound being less than full. But fwiw wth you can try it, actually Mesa has stuff written up about doing this sort of impedance mismatch at the end of most of their amplifier user manuals, if you want to check it out. Here's a link:

Mesa Boogie User Manuals

The Express Plus manuals have this section, as do the Lonestars, Royal Atlantic, yadda yadda yadda...

You can also plug an 8 ohm speaker by itself into either 8 or 9, but then cannot use #7 or whichever of #8 or #9 you didn't use, if you catch my drift.

Good luck, and enjoy all that Marshall-y goodness!


----------



## ucnick

Yep so far I like it! Amp cuts nicely. I'll keep this config for a while, no more rolling... rolling... rolling... keep them ol' valves rolling...


----------



## dave999z

Anyone else just plugging an American Standard strat (er, any strat I guess) straight into their DSL40C? If so, have you arrived at any good settings? I'm finding it somewhat difficult to find shared EQ settings that give a balanced clean tone (not too bass heavy and boomy) on the green channel (crunch mode) but isn't then too trebly/icepicky/harsh on the red channel (lead1 mode).

I'm also finding the gain a bit fizzy. Wish high single notes were a little creamier (more of a singing overdrive) and less gritty sounding.

The difference in FEEL on this amp between putting a tube screamer in front of the green channel versus just using the red channel with the gain about 10 or 11 o'clock is amazing. The red channel tube preamp overdrive is so thick and huge (heh, I said "thick and huge") and deep compared to a TS8 on the green channel. I'm not saying it just has more gain. Obviously the red channel can get a ridiculous amount of gain. But it has just way more power and responsiveness... like an endless reservoir of power the harder you pick the note. At least that's my take on it.

Here's the best I've been able to dial in so far, but I'm definitely still tweaking:
classic gain = 4
mode = crunch
classic volume = 3
ultra gain = 4
mode = lead1
ultra volume = just above 2
treble = just under 2
mid = just above 2
bass = 4
tone shift = off
presence = just above 1 (and presumably would turn this up at a gig if not cutting through enough)
resonance = 0

With these setting, the guitar's tone and volume knobs have a huge affect on the sound.


----------



## Pumpkin88

dave999z said:


> Anyone else just plugging an American Standard strat (er, any strat I guess) straight into their DSL40C? If so, have you arrived at any good settings? I'm finding it somewhat difficult to find shared EQ settings that give a balanced clean tone (not too bass heavy and boomy) on the green channel (crunch mode) but isn't then too trebly/icepicky/harsh on the red channel (lead1 mode).
> 
> I'm also finding the gain a bit fizzy. Wish high single notes were a little creamier (more of a singing overdrive) and less gritty sounding.
> 
> The difference in FEEL on this amp between putting a tube screamer in front of the green channel versus just using the red channel with the gain about 10 or 11 o'clock is amazing. The red channel tube preamp overdrive is so thick and huge (heh, I said "thick and huge") and deep compared to a TS8 on the green channel. I'm not saying it just has more gain. Obviously the red channel can get a ridiculous amount of gain. But it has just way more power and responsiveness... like an endless reservoir of power the harder you pick the note. At least that's my take on it.
> 
> Here's the best I've been able to dial in so far, but I'm definitely still tweaking:
> classic gain = 4
> mode = crunch
> classic volume = 3
> ultra gain = 4
> mode = lead1
> ultra volume = just above 2
> treble = just under 2
> mid = just above 2
> bass = 4
> tone shift = off
> presence = just above 1 (and presumably would turn this up at a gig if not cutting through enough)
> resonance = 0
> 
> With these setting, the guitar's tone and volume knobs have a huge affect on the sound.



Try setting everything at 12 o'clock thats the settings that Marshall recommends using. Obviously your going to want to tweak it but its a good starting point for experimenting. Also I recommend using the tone shift if you like to scoop your mids.


----------



## Pasloade74

ucnick said:


> Hi - there are three jacks on the back: one jack for a single 16 ohm speaker (#7 in the user manual),which is connected to the 16 ohm tap from the OT, and two jacks which are wired in parallel and connected to the 8 ohm tap on the OT (#s 8 and 9 in the UM). To use the external speaker configuration, remove your combo speaker plug from the single 16 ohm jack (#7, where it normally is without an extension) and plug it into one of the 8 ohm connections (say #8), and plug the 16 ohm extension into the other (which would be #9).
> 
> The combination of two 16 ohm speakers wired in parallel provides an equivalent impedance of 8 ohms which is matched to the 8 ohm OT tap. I do this whenever I need to push a little more air with my rig, woks fine.
> 
> When you remove the extension cab, you should move the combo speaker back to the 16 ohm jack #7, or else you will not get full power - if you leave it in there, the 8 ohm OT winding can drive the 16 ohm speaker but it is not matched and it will drop the max output power, and also it may result in the sound being less than full. But fwiw wth you can try it, actually Mesa has stuff written up about doing this sort of impedance mismatch at the end of most of their amplifier user manuals, if you want to check it out. Here's a link:
> 
> Mesa Boogie User Manuals
> 
> The Express Plus manuals have this section, as do the Lonestars, Royal Atlantic, yadda yadda yadda...
> 
> You can also plug an 8 ohm speaker by itself into either 8 or 9, but then cannot use #7 or whichever of #8 or #9 you didn't use, if you catch my drift.
> 
> Good luck, and enjoy all that Marshall-y goodness!



Thanks for explaining, I'll give it a try.


----------



## Pumpkin88

My settings look like this.


classic gain = 6
mode = clean
classic volume = 6.5 (or more depending on how loud)
ultra gain = 7.5
mode = lead2
ultra volume = 2.5 (or more depending on how loud)
treble = 6.5
mid = 4
bass = 6
tone shift = engaged
presence = ~6.5
resonance = ~7


----------



## Micky

Pasloade74 said:


> Hi Micky, I've been reading this thread tonight as I've had my DSL 40 since July. Love this amp and I'm still learning about it too. I installed a 16 ohm vintage 30 in it and I'd also like to run 1x12 cab loaded with 16 ohm Wizard. Should I just plug each speaker onto an 8 ohm jack? I'm a little confused. Thanks-Mike



Yes, when running both together, use both 8-ohm jacks.
When running only 1, use the 16-ohm jack.


----------



## ucnick

Roger Tyria said:


> Micky.. Did a little testing of the ft sw circuit this afternoon. I can put up to a 6.8K resistor in series with the switch leg and still pull in the relay. That gives about 2v across the resistor which would be in the ft sw. Tried connecting an LED across the 2v source to rtn (gnd) just a little dim light.
> Measured the open circ voltage from the amp and it was around 4.9v.
> Did an amp check and with ammeter making the switch connection I get about 0.5ma not enough drive to power an LED. The problem is the 10K pull up resistor is limiting the current draw on the 5v supply. Also checked and lowest current LED's I can find are @ 2ma. Don't think power for LED's can be taken from the 5v logic supply??



Did a little work on this last night. Lotta thinking, believe it or not.  You can get enough current and voltage - but will have to monkey wth the pullup resistor on the board, and also get the correct LED current limit resistor value so the combination will provide enough Vih for the AT2313 and also enough current for an LED. 

Roger - the 0.5mA is exactly right for the current through the pullup - 5V/10k. Exactly what Ohm's Law says it should be. The issue is to allow the current required to drive an LED and still provide enough voltage to generate greater than 0.6*5V = 3V at the AT2313 input (that is the AT2313 spec from the datasheet).

Using my handy little Fluke DMM and some observation, I found that the footswitch tip is the Channel control, and when switch is open the tip (FSW_TIP on the board) is pulled up to 5V and selects Red channel. When it is closed it shorts the tip to ground and selects Green channel.

Same thing on Reverb (which is Ring) - switch open = reverb on (FSW_RING = 5V), switch closed = reverb off (FSW_RING = GND). 

I have yet to try this - but, doing some calculations on my pocket calculator, and assuming LED forward voltage drop is about 2V (which is about typical for a red LED at 5 mA or so), if replace R101 on the amp circuit board with a 300 ohm resistor, and in the footswitch solder a 300 ohm to the FSW_TIP point on the channel switch, then install an LED (red would be appropriate - need to drill a hole) so that anode connects to the unsoldered end of the 300 ohm, and the cathode to ground (connector sleeve), then when the switch is opened (which is Red channel mode) the LED will light up when in Red mode and will be dark in Green mode - unfortunately cannot power a diode directly from that line for Green mode, since switch shorts to ground. But at least you can tell which channel is on! 

This should also work for the Reverb channel - but if you use a blue or white LED the diode forward voltage will be higher and will need to recalculate the resistor values. I could do this in a spreadsheet if anyone wants it...

The way this works (warning, Will Robinson - technical!) - assuming forward voltage of the LED is about 2V, voltage drop across the two 300 ohm resistors in series will be 3V, so current will be 3V/600 ohms = 5 mA with the LED on, should be fairly bright. Voltage drop across R101 will be about 1.5V, so this will leave FSW_TIP at 3.5V, which according to the AT2313 datasheet will exceed the Vih min for the AT2313 by at least 0.5V, so it will act as a valid control signal and still provide enough current for the LED.

If you want a brighter LED, drop the resistor values. But have to adjust them to maintain the voltage at FSW_TIP at higher than 3V. 

BTW 1/4W or 1/8W resistors will be fine, they will only dissipate about 7.5 mW. They are using 0.6W resistors in the amp?! Kinda overkill...

Only thing worries me is if there is enough extra current headroom from the L7805 to provide the extra 5 mA, I would think so (it is a 1.5A device with proper heatsinking!), but if it crashes the 5V rail can always just hook up another L7805 or a 78L05 just to power the footswitch pullups. But I would think the extra 5mA should be OK.

I am going to try this soon - I got really PO'd playing a gig last week and couldn't tell which channel was on. May take a week or more for me to get to it, though. Anyone see any holes in this?


----------



## Micky

ucnick said:


> Did a little work on this last night. Lotta thinking, believe it or not. You can get enough current and voltage - but will have to monkey wth the pullup resistor on the board, and also get the correct LED current limit resistor value so the combination will provide enough Vih for the AT2313 and also enough current for an LED.
> 
> Roger - the 0.5mA is exactly right for the current through the pullup - 5V/10k. Exactly what Ohm's Law says it should be. The issue is to allow the current required to drive an LED and still provide enough voltage to generate greater than 0.6*5V = 3V at the AT2313 input (that is the AT2313 spec from the datasheet).
> 
> Using my handy little Fluke DMM and some observation, I found that the footswitch tip is the Channel control, and when switch is open the tip (FSW_TIP on the board) is pulled up to 5V and selects Red chhannel. When it is closed it shorts the tip to ground and selects Green channel.
> 
> Same thing on Reverb (which is Ring) - switch open = reverb on (FSW_RING = 5V), switch closed = reverb off (FSW_RING = GND).
> 
> I have yet to try this - but, doing some calculations on my pocket calculator, and assuming LED forward voltage drop is about 2V (which is about typical for a red LED at 5 mA or so), if replace R101 on the amp circuit board with a 300 ohm resistor, and in the footswitch solder a 300 ohm to the FSW_TIP point on the channel switch, then install an LED (red would be appropriate - need to drill a hole) so that anode connects to the unsoldered end of the 300 ohm, and the cathode to ground (connector sleeve), then when the switch is opened (which is Red channel mode) the LED will light up when in Red mode and will be dark in Green mode - unfortunately cannot power a diode directly from that line for Green mode, since switch shorts to ground. But at least you can tell which channel is on!
> 
> This should also work for the Reverb channel - but if you use a blue or white LED the diode forward voltage will be higher and will need to recalculate the resistor values. I could do this in a spreadsheet if anyone wants it...
> 
> The way this works (warning, Will Robinson - technical!) - assuming forward voltage of the LED is about 2V, voltage drop across the two 300 ohm resistors in series will be 3V, so current will be 3V/600 ohms = 5 mA with the LED on, should be fairly bright. Voltage drop across R101 will be about 1.5V, so this will leave FSW_TIP at 3.5V, which according to the AT2313 datasheet will exceed the Vih min for the AT2313 by at least 0.5V, so it will act as a valid control signal and still provide enough current for the LED.
> 
> If you want a brighter LED, drop the resistor values. But have to adjust them to maintain the voltage at FSW_TIP at higher than 3V.
> 
> BTW 1/4W or 1/8W resistors will be fine, they will only dissipate about 7.5 mW. They are using 0.6W resistors in the amp?! Kinda overkill...
> 
> Only thing worries me is if there is enough extra current headroom from the L7805 to provide the extra 5 mA, I would think so (it is a 1.5A device with proper heatsinking!), but if it crashes the 5V rail can always just hook up another L7805 or a 78L05 just to power the footswitch pullups. But I would think the extra 5mA should be OK.
> 
> I am going to try this soon - I got really PO'd playing a gig last week and couldn't tell which channel was on. May take a week or more for me to get to it, though. Anyone see any holes in this?



In theory, it looks good. Logical. Spock would be proud.
In reality, what happens when you change R101 and then disconnect the footswitch? Remember, this needs to be idiot proof.
Is there no way to address this in the footswitch only?


----------



## ucnick

Thank you, Captain! 

It should work just fine. The 300 ohm resistor still acts as a pullup, albeit a pretty stiff one. Fairly certain they just made it 10K to lower current consumption with the switch shorted to ground. I design hardware for a living, and it is common practice.

Regarding being able to do the changes in the footswitch only - unfortunately, nope, only if you use an external power source, such as a battery or power supply - as Roger pointed out, the 10k resistor in R101 limits the current available for an LED. No matter what you do, you will run into a wall. Have to change the source. But it should not be too hard to implement -could even just add a resistor in parallel with the 10K R101 to give 300 ohms so you don't have to pull it out, just add 300 ohms across the 10k, it will give almost 300 ohms (a little less) but should still work almost exactly the same.


----------



## Duffy49

ucnick said:


> Thank you, Captain!
> 
> It should work just fine. The 300 ohm resistor still acts as a pullup, albeit a pretty stiff one. Fairly certain they just made it 10K to lower current consumption with the switch shorted to ground. I design hardware for a living, and it is common practice.
> 
> Regarding being able to do the changes in the footswitch only - unfortunately, nope, only if you use an external power source, such as a battery or power supply - as Roger pointed out, the 10k resistor in R101 limits the current available for an LED. No matter what you do, you will run into a wall. Have to change the source. But it should not be too hard to implement -could even just add a resistor in parallel with the 10K R101 to give 300 ohms so you don't have to pull it out, just add 300 ohms across the 10k, it will give almost 300 ohms (a little less) but should still work almost exactly the same.


 

Wouldn't a nine volt battery power a couple small LED's for a whole lot of hours before becoming useless? The battery in the foot pedal idea sounds fool proof and simple enough. Why not go this simple route?


----------



## ucnick

Duffy49 said:


> Wouldn't a nine volt battery power a couple small LED's for a whole lot of hours before becoming useless? The battery in the foot pedal idea sounds fool proof and simple enough. Why not go this simple route?


Yep that would of course work as well. I think that is how Roger set up his pedal mod, and I considered it too. It would be much prettier too, with a green/red LED for channel status. I just like not having to depend upon batteries, as they have a habit of dying on me at the wrong time, and also needs an on/off switch somewhere, which according to Murphy will be accidentally turned on to drain the battery when you need it most, so I came up with and have presented an idea on a way to accomplish channel status display without using batteries. It seems pretty simple to me - two resistors and an LED. I may kludge it up and try it out this weekend, if I do I will report back on what I find. Anyway, whatever works for you. Good luck to you!


----------



## Duffy49

ucnick said:


> Yep that would of course work as well. I think that is how Roger set up his pedal mod, and I considered it too. It would be much prettier too, with a green/red LED for channel status. I just like not having to depend upon batteries, as they have a habit of dying on me at the wrong time, and also needs an on/off switch somewhere, which according to Murphy will be accidentally turned on to drain the battery when you need it most, so I came up with and have presented an idea on a way to accomplish channel status display without using batteries. It seems pretty simple to me - two resistors and an LED. I may kludge it up and try it out this weekend, if I do I will report back on what I find. Anyway, whatever works for you. Good luck to you!


 
I really don't know how to do the LED thing, either way. I was just thinking that for people like myself, that don't want to tear stuff up inside the amp itself, it might be easy to come up with a mod that just uses a nine volt in the foot switch to power the LEDs. The on/off switch could be stealthily placed and one could always charge up a nine volt NiMH battery or have an extra on hand in case one gets drained. 

Overall, for someone like myself, doing the pedal nine volt mod would be far easier than messing around inside the amp. With good directions I'm sure I could do the nine volt mod with no major problem.


----------



## Micky

Duffy49 said:


> I really don't know how to do the LED thing, either way. I was just thinking that for people like myself, that don't want to tear stuff up inside the amp itself, it might be easy to come up with a mod that just uses a nine volt in the foot switch to power the LEDs. The on/off switch could be stealthily placed and one could always charge up a nine volt NiMH battery or have an extra on hand in case one gets drained.
> 
> Overall, for someone like myself, doing the pedal nine volt mod would be far easier than messing around inside the amp. With good directions I'm sure I could do the nine volt mod with no major problem.



Read further back in the thread to find Roger's footswitch mod.

And Nick - let us all know where R101 is...


----------



## Roger Tyria

Micky said:


> Read further back in the thread to find Roger's footswitch mod.
> 
> And Nick - let us all know where R101 is...


I did mine with just a jack to plug in a 9v wall wart and it works great.

After that I did a mod for Kingbee, with both options 9v battery and jack.

I have an after market 2 button switch I bought and modified with LED's and both power options. I could do either option either a new F.S. For the new F.S. $ 40 or modify your Original Marshall F.S. for about $ 25 but that option would require shipping costs going both ways.

I have also orderd some low current Green LED's to try the power from the 5v logic supply theory. As soon as I have those in I'll let everyone know the outcome.

Good research ucnick, I agree that by changing the value of R101 would get the job done. As you said it shouldn't impact anything other than the draw on the 5v logic supply.


----------



## Pumpkin88

Just out of curiosity does anyone have a demo of this amp hooked up to a cab, specifically a setup that utilizes the internal speaker? From what I've seen the JVM 2x12 cab will work, as well as the traditional 1960 4x12.


----------



## num1dano

Holy *^#@ grew some and did mod c19 i bow to you kind sirs !!! It didnt seem to be a problem till i got a chance to really play my dsl40 for a couple hrs . I did notice unbalance before but today i couldnt find a good sound, 7.5 minutes later i was so amazed i almost ,:/^&* my pants . What a change in sound and so easy!


----------



## rbnum1fan

My DSL40c arrived 2 weeks ago and it was love at first Powerchord.
The band I play in runs the gamut from Jason Aldean to Metallica ,so I use the Classic Crunch with the Gain on 10 for a GREAT overdriven sound that cleans up very nicely by rolling down the volume on the guitar. When I play a solo on this channel I use a Mad Professor Golden Cello for a little extra push( that pedal sounds AWESOME on the clean channel all by itself too) 
the EQ runs at 
Treble -7
Bass and Mids -4
Tone Shift button is pushed in
Presence and Resonance both at 8

For heavier tones I like the Lead 2 with the gain on 8. When I take a solo on this channel I use a 1988 model Marshall Guv'nor pedal for a boost.
I run the band's sound and I love a deep Heavy Kick. I Like a deep fat Bass on top of this to form the foundation of the band ,so the extra little bit of treble from the Ultra Gain Channel actually makes the amp sit very well in the mix. I use it the Triode mode an crank the volume of the Green Channel to about 8,and the Ultra Gain's volume sits around 6 or 7.
My bandmate's are VERY happy with the amp as well. I can't say enough good about this amp!


----------



## num1dano

I do love my amp but i dont play with as much gain as it sounds you are. There was a day when this amp would have been the ticket for my high gain crunch. In those days it was crank it up everything on ten and rock out. My hearing realy pays now lol. Ok so i needed the mod to make both channels tone sound closer. I am amazed at being able to have so many sounds im happy with out of one amp. No digital stuff to give me a sound. Heres what i am doing now.
Triode mode bedroom level and jammin
Classic 
Clean
Gain 4.5 
Volume 6 (thats my bedroom sweetspot )
8/9 jammin
Ultra lead 2
Gain 2.5/3
Volume 3 bedroom
4/5 jammin
Treb 5
Mid 3.5
Bass 6.5
Ts out
Pres 4
Res 6.5
Rev classic 8
Ultra 5
Tube screamer ts9 drive 1/4, tone one line under half, level 1.5 line over half. This allows clean to be sparkle clean and when ingaged it gives my my crunch sound or boost. On lead 2 i get a great gain distortion sound and when engaged my ts9 great lead tone. I can also play clean channel and just switch to lead 2 for a lead or more distorted sound. No distortion pedal needed , im loven it lol. Oh les paul guitar and a washburn t- bird with duncan distortion pickups to bring out the tone.


----------



## num1dano

I havent played out with it yet but im thinking mic or pentiode side with basicly everything the same.


----------



## JAC

I really have enjoyed reading through many parts of this thread. I love the DSL-40 combo. It sounds killer out of the box from what I've heard so far. I wound up getting a DSL-15c today. I'm just a bedroom rocker. This thing was way loud in the store when I first tried it out over nine months ago. I finally got another Marshall. Love these things! If I were a gigging musician I would have got the DSL-40 C.


----------



## num1dano

Good for you! Youll enjoy the amp. I checked both out and i did like the ultra gain sides sound better . I wanted more wattage and headroom for my cleans though. The tubes are different in 15 /40 . I did learn from these posts that there are ways to tweak or mod these amps to find your own sound.


----------



## Duffy49

I ordered an Avatar 212 speaker cab to go with my DSL100H and 
DSL40C.

It is the Vintage style with all black tolex on the cab and valance, a black grill, gold piping, and a black Avatar logo. It should look cool with all black and the gold pin striping as accent.

It has a total ohm rating of 8 ohms, with two 16 ohm Eminence Swamp Thang speakers of a sensitivity rating of 102.0 dB (+/-) each.

It will look like this except have gold pin striping and a black Avatar logo.
https://sphotos-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/306458_237499382961175_100990_n.jpg





I should be getting this in about a week. I'll describe how it compares to the sound of the 412 Epiphone So. Cal. cabinet I'm using that has four Eminence/Epiphone "Lady Luck" speakers. My present assessment is that the Epi So. Cal. 4 X 12 cab sounds very good. We will see how it stands up to the Avatar and the Swamp Thangs. It should be interesting.


----------



## Micky

I am curious about the dimensions in comparison to the DSL40c.
I also am looking for the right 2X12 to sit underneath my 40c...


----------



## Pumpkin88

Micky said:


> I am curious about the dimensions in comparison to the DSL40c.
> I also am looking for the right 2X12 to sit underneath my 40c...



I've been researching this for a while now and it seems due to the 16 ohm impedance to run both the internal speaker as well as the cab, selection is somewhat limited. Add to that the large body of the combo and your only left with a couple choices, Orange PPC 212-C or JVMMC212. For what its worth I plan to just pick up a 1960A 4x12 and switch it to 16 ohms, price wise its nearly the same as a smaller 2x12 anyway.


----------



## Micky

What dimension for width have you found?
Internal speaker configuration does not concern me.
I will be putting 2X8-ohm speakers inside for a 16-ohm load.
What about the dimensions for an MX212?


----------



## Kenster

Curious why you chose 8 Ohm cab. Now you can't use the internal speaker of the 40C if you want to hook up the Avatar. That's going to be a nice looking cab though. I saw one of their new Carbon Fiber tolex versions, bitchen looking cabs as well.

K




Duffy49 said:


> I ordered an Avatar 212 speaker cab to go with my DSL100H and
> DSL40C.
> 
> It is the Vintage style with all black tolex on the cab and valance, a black grill, gold piping, and a black Avatar logo. It should look cool with all black and the gold pin striping as accent.
> 
> It has a total ohm rating of 8 ohms, with two 16 ohm Eminence Swamp Thang speakers of a sensitivity rating of 102.0 dB (+/-) each.
> 
> It will look like this except have gold pin striping and a black Avatar logo.
> https://sphotos-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/306458_237499382961175_100990_n.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I should be getting this in about a week. I'll describe how it compares to the sound of the 412 Epiphone So. Cal. cabinet I'm using that has four Eminence/Epiphone "Lady Luck" speakers. My present assessment is that the Epi So. Cal. 4 X 12 cab sounds very good. We will see how it stands up to the Avatar and the Swamp Thangs. It should be interesting.


----------



## Duffy49

Micky said:


> I am curious about the dimensions in comparison to the DSL40c.
> I also am looking for the right 2X12 to sit underneath my 40c...


 

Micky, the Avatar "Vintage" style cab that I am getting is 30" wide and the DSL40C is not as wide. I think the cab would extend three or four inches wider on each side of the DSL40C if the combo was centered. If you lined the combo up with the side and stacked it on top you could have a seven or eight inch shelf on top of the cab to one side.

They make a 212 "Traditional" style cab that is about two inches narrower, around 28.xx" wide. This would still leave a wider base unit when the combo is placed on top of it. The one by twelve cabinets are probably a better fit if you want something that is going to be a very close fit in terms of width. They make some nice one by twelve cabinets.

The Avatar facebook page has a lot of great photo's of various cabs they have built for people, and a lot of different colors and color combinations are available. The Avatar FB address is, "Avatar Speakers". I have zero affiliation with this or any other company and provide this info for educational and reference purposes only.


----------



## Pumpkin88

Micky said:


> What dimension for width have you found?
> Internal speaker configuration does not concern me.
> I will be putting 2X8-ohm speakers inside for a 16-ohm load.
> What about the dimensions for an MX212?



The width is almost 25 " (24.5 " to be exact). The problem I've been finding though isn't so much the width as it is the depth which is at at 10 ". Not too many cabs will allow for that much depth (safely) AND run at 16 ohms. Having said that if your choosing not to utilize the internal speaker than your going to have some more options. If I remember correctlly I do believe the mx212 cab will fit with the combo on top.


----------



## Duffy49

Kenster said:


> Curious why you chose 8 Ohm cab. Now you can't use the internal speaker of the 40C if you want to hook up the Avatar. That's going to be a nice looking cab though. I saw one of their new Carbon Fiber tolex versions, bitchen looking cabs as well.
> 
> K


 

Kenster, I chose the 8 ohm cab so I can use the cabinet with my Fender amps as well as my Vox AC15C1; for versatility.

Also, because mine has Eminence Swamp Thang speakers, I can't see where I'd want to have both the internal DSL40C Celestion Seventy/80 speaker and the Swamp Thangs on at the same time. This is because the Swamp Thang speakers are a lot louder than the Seventy/80, that would be drownded out. The amp, with the external speaker, is going to put out a great deal of volume by itself.


----------



## Micky

The JVMC212 cab is 26.5 wide, the DSL40c is 24.5 wide.
Nobody knows what the MX212 dimensions are yet, they haven't been released.
A 1922 cab is 26.5 wide, and a 1936 is 29.5 wide.

I am OK with an inch or so on either side, but a 1936 might be too wide.

I like the looks of the MX, but nobody has them yet...


----------



## Duffy49

Pumpkin88 said:


> I've been researching this for a while now and it seems due to the 16 ohm impedance to run both the internal speaker as well as the cab, selection is somewhat limited. Add to that the large body of the combo and your only left with a couple choices, Orange PPC 212-C or JVMMC212. For what its worth I plan to just pick up a 1960A 4x12 and switch it to 16 ohms, price wise its nearly the same as a smaller 2x12 anyway.


 

Places like "Avatar Speakers", no affln., can hook you up, no problem, at a super great price point - and . . . they, Avatar's, are made out of void free plywood all around, not MDF like some of the others, including some Marshalls, like the current 1936 212's.


----------



## Micky

In all reality, I am cool with MDF/HDF construction.
Chances are I would put in my own Eminence speaker combination, then sell whatever was in the cab.
For me it is more about matching the look and feel of the DSL. The JVM cab uses the same tolex, the 1936 and 1922 do not. This is why I am looking forward to the MX212, looks like it will be the right size and same new tolex.

I would hate to have to resort to building one, tolexing cabs really sux...


----------



## JEB

New to the forum. I've been lurking for the last few weeks reading all of the great information on here and thought I'd finally sign up.

I got the DSL40C a few weeks back and love the amp so far. I've played guitar (badly) for about 20 years now, but this is my first tube amp. 

I'm still working up my courage to do the footswitch LED and C19 mod, but I think I'm ready to try a new speaker. I see quite a few people like the Vintage 30, Creamback and Texas Heat for this amp. How about the Celestion Gold or would that be a poor choice to mellow out the highs on this amp?


----------



## dave999z

JEB said:


> New to the forum. I've been lurking for the last few weeks reading all of the great information on here and thought I'd finally sign up.
> 
> I got the DSL40C a few weeks back and love the amp so far. I've played guitar (badly) for about 20 years now, but this is my first tube amp.
> 
> I'm still working up my courage to do the footswitch LED and C19 mod, but I think I'm ready to try a new speaker. I see quite a few people like the Vintage 30, Creamback and Texas Heat for this amp. How about the Celestion Gold or would that be a poor choice to mellow out the highs on this amp?



Over on the JVM forum there was a big speaker shootout for the 1x12 combo version. For THAT amp, people loved the gold speaker (it won). I would love to try one in a DSL40C. Who knows how well it'd work -- different circuit (obviously) and MDF construction (I assume the JVM cabinet is birch ply). That's an expensive damn speaker though. Try it, and let us know!


----------



## House

Does anyone know if the marshall PED801 foot switch works on the DSL? I'd like to have the LED without having to get the switch modded with that extra power cable coming out of it. Just a thought if anyone has tried...


----------



## Micky

House said:


> Does anyone know if the marshall PED801 foot switch works on the DSL? I'd like to have the LED without having to get the switch modded with that extra power cable coming out of it. Just a thought if anyone has tried...



Might work, but I dunno of anyone who has tried it.
What amp does it come with?

I tried the 2-button from my Haze, described in this thread above...


----------



## Micky

I found myself in unfamiliar territory this past weekend...

Friday I had the day off, and after I got back downstairs I decided to fire up the DSL and re-learn a couple older Rush songs from the past.

I started with Working Man, and just couldn't seem to get that drive and gain Alex has on the first album. I usually run the crunch channel with the gain on 8 or so (3:O'clock) and the volume to suit. OK, I said, and clicked the dreaded footswitch to OD1 and tried again. I usually run the opposite on the Ultra channel, gain low, like 2-3 or so (9:O'clock) and again, the volume to match the other channel.

Shit, I still can't get it. Mess with the tone controls, the resonance, the presence, I just can't do it. WHAT THE HELL! Then I did something I never have done before...

I switched to OD2. OMFG, there it was! I was playing and sounding sooo good I actually thought that I WAS Alex Leifson. I looked around quickly to see if the Trailer Park Boys were coming to kidnap me.

Mind you this is AFTER the bright cap (C19) mod, and a significant change in the tubes (all detailed above). I never thought I would ever have a need for OD2, but by God, there it is!

I won't bore you with my reaction to Closer To The Heart, (cleans were on the crunch channel with the LP volume rolled back a bit) or my delight at remembering Limelight. Just take it from me, this bitch sounded awesome, I just wish my hack attempts at trying to play like a pro was better...


----------



## rbnum1fan

I have had mine for a month now,and LOVE LOVE LOVE it! ALL of my guitars sound very good thru this amp,and my 1976 Les Paul Custom just SINGS thru it. I love running the gain on the Green channel full up,volume about 3 o'clock with an Ibanez TS9 for a lead boost. I use the OD 2 for a heavier rhythm sound,but never try to use it for leads.


----------



## Roger Tyria

House said:


> Does anyone know if the marshall PED801 foot switch works on the DSL? I'd like to have the LED without having to get the switch modded with that extra power cable coming out of it. Just a thought if anyone has tried...


House
I have spent a bit of time with the CH switch circuit on the 2012 DSL, and the simple answer is there is not enough power / current available in the stock circuit to drive LED's. I actually bought some very low current LED's (2ma) and the available drive from the 5v FS logic circuit just won't push them hard enough to lite up.

The amp could possibly be modified to change the value of the pull up resistor in the MP circuit? Read futher up in this thread as it was mentioned, but not sure if the theory was ever proven out?

Really the simplest, fool proof way of adding the LED's to the F.S. is using 9v Battery and / or 9v Pedal power supply.

PM me if you want more info on what I did to mod my FS, it is really pretty simple.

Cheers


----------



## Coronado

Micky said:


> I found myself in unfamiliar territory this past weekend...





Micky said:


> Friday I had the day off, and after I got back downstairs I decided to fire up the DSL and re-learn a couple older Rush songs from the past.
> 
> I started with Working Man, and just couldn't seem to get that drive and gain Alex has on the first album. I usually run the crunch channel with the gain on 8 or so (3:O'clock) and the volume to suit. OK, I said, and clicked the dreaded footswitch to OD1 and tried again. I usually run the opposite on the Ultra channel, gain low, like 2-3 or so (9:O'clock) and again, the volume to match the other channel.
> 
> Shit, I still can't get it. Mess with the tone controls, the resonance, the presence, I just can't do it. WHAT THE HELL! Then I did something I never have done before...
> 
> I switched to OD2. OMFG, there it was! I was playing and sounding sooo good I actually thought that I WAS Alex Leifson. I looked around quickly to see if the Trailer Park Boys were coming to kidnap me.
> 
> Mind you this is AFTER the bright cap (C19) mod, and a significant change in the tubes (all detailed above). I never thought I would ever have a need for OD2, but by God, there it is!
> 
> I won't bore you with my reaction to Closer To The Heart, (cleans were on the crunch channel with the LP volume rolled back a bit) or my delight at remembering Limelight. Just take it from me, this bitch sounded awesome, I just wish my hack attempts at trying to play like a pro was better...


 
NOTHING better than when you had that sound before, now you cant find it. You tweak and tweak, then there's that AHA moment and you have your sound... 

I was at GC yesterday, again, going back and forth between the DSL40c, the DSL15H, and a Class 5 head and cab. I read here that you could run an OD pedal and get some great tone. I brought all three into the sound room and kept going back and forth. When compared to the DSL40 and 15, I think the Class 5 just didn't have the sound I prefer. So now down to the 40 and the 15. 

From reading this thread for some time now, I rarely see anyone not happy with their DSL40. And it sounds like you can do SO much with it. I think today I will finally stop fooling around and just get the DSL40. 

And hell, if I can get my sound anywhere close to Alex Leifson like Micky did, I'M SOLD!

Thanks guys!
Ray


----------



## Duffy49

Yesterday I received my new Avatar two twelve speaker cabinet. I got the Vintage style one with black tolex and black valance, with gold piping and a black Avatar logo on the valance. Black grill too. It looks awesome. It has two Eminence Swamp Thang speakers. I will take some pictures.

I use it with my DSL40C and DSL100H. It sounds way better, to my ear, than my Epiphone So. Cal. four twelve cabinet with the Lady Luck speakers.

The sound of the cab is awesome. The bass response is really nice and is the chest pounding type when cranked up a little, which is not cranking it up much because the Swamp Thang speakers are 102.x dB sensitivity rated. Power chords are really nice and full and driven on the clean channel but the high end chime is definitely there. It has a sound that I really like and I can easily get a lot of tones that I like from it, after only owning it for one day. Turned down to household volume it still sounds great, but cranked up a little it really roars. It is a very clear sounding cab but has lots of low end power that is not muddy or distorted and the mid range is not overpowered by the bass. It has a very excellent mid range sound coming thru strong.

The cabinet looks really nice in classic all black with gold piping. The tolex is very nice and is not the cheap flimsy type. It is made of all multi ply Baltic birch, all six sides. The black grill is very substantial and not flimsy.

I got the 8 ohm cabinet so that I can use it with my Fender and Vox amps, as well as the Marshalls. I haven't tried that yet but expect the AC15c1 will be a lot louder and more powerful.

The cabinet, with these speakers, is really sensitive to pick attack and playing dynamics. The clarity of the speakers allows subtle changes in playing technique to come thru strong. Blues leads sound super great and strong.

I had been told that the speaker was very strong with the bass response, but it is crystal clear and the mids and highs are well balanced. I like that strong bass reinforcement, but when you turn up the tone knobs on the guitar all the way it is plenty bright sounding and a strat or tele twangs nicely. The single coils on my Lonestar strat, Texas Specials, really chime and ring like bells. This aspect alone sets this cabinet apart from my other cabinets.

I will take some pictures and get them posted. The total cost, delivered, was 439 dollars, which is a lot less than many MDF type cabinets I have seen advertised. I personally prefer plywood if I can find it, which is getting harder to do all the time.


----------



## Micky

Coronado said:


> NOTHING better than when you had that sound before, now you cant find it. You tweak and tweak, then there's that AHA moment and you have your sound...
> 
> I was at GC yesterday, again, going back and forth between the DSL40c, the DSL15H, and a Class 5 head and cab. I read here that you could run an OD pedal and get some great tone. I brought all three into the sound room and kept going back and forth. When compared to the DSL40 and 15, I think the Class 5 just didn't have the sound I prefer. So now down to the 40 and the 15.
> 
> From reading this thread for some time now, I rarely see anyone not happy with their DSL40. And it sounds like you can do SO much with it. I think today I will finally stop fooling around and just get the DSL40.
> 
> And hell, if I can get my sound anywhere close to Alex Leifson like Micky did, I'M SOLD!
> 
> Thanks guys!
> Ray



Best part of this Ray, is that I am still exploring what I can do with this amp. Sonically/tone-wise, it is amazing. I admit, it does take some tweaking here and there to get things correct, but it is very rewarding once you get it dialed in.

I saw a show about Styx last night, and some of the clips they showed had Tommy Shaw and CY Young playing some awesome licks, kinda inspired me to re-learn some of those old songs like Blue Collar Man and Too Much Time On My Hands. If I remember correctly Too Much Time has a riff a lot like SCOM...

The other amazing thing is that I can play all my old favorites without any effects or pedals. There is plenty of gain as well as tone and sustain/feedback, and until I come across something that requires a delay or whatever I am fine.


----------



## Micky

Duffy49 said:


> The sound of the cab is awesome. The bass response is really nice and is the chest pounding type when cranked up a little, which is not cranking it up much because the Swamp Thang speakers are 102.x dB sensitivity rated. Power chords are really nice and full and driven on the clean channel but the high end chime is definitely there. It has a sound that I really like and I can easily get a lot of tones that I like from it, after only owning it for one day. Turned down to household volume it still sounds great, but cranked up a little it really roars. It is a very clear sounding cab but has lots of low end power that is not muddy or distorted and the mid range is not overpowered by the bass. It has a very excellent mid range sound coming thru strong.



Personally I think accuracy is the best word to describe this class of speakers. The only thing more accurate I have found is the Legend series.

I wish all the Celestion fanboys would get off the Greenback kick and try something sonically superior for a change. Eminence are Made in America, and are some of the most affordable speakers ever made. WGS and Scumbacks are my other favorites, but Eminence by far is the brand I will remain loyal to. To add an Avatar cab must be pure heaven...

If I had been you (probably glad I am not...) I would have opted for the 16-ohm version so I could use the combo as well as the extension at the same time...


----------



## Duffy49

Micky said:


> Personally I think accuracy is the best word to describe this class of speakers. The only thing more accurate I have found is the Legend series.
> 
> I wish all the Celestion fanboys would get off the Greenback kick and try something sonically superior for a change. Eminence are Made in America, and are some of the most affordable speakers ever made. WGS and Scumbacks are my other favorites, but Eminence by far is the brand I will remain loyal to. To add an Avatar cab must be pure heaven...
> 
> If I had been you (probably glad I am not...) I would have opted for the 16-ohm version so I could use the combo as well as the extension at the same time...


 

I thought about the 16 ohm version for a long time. Then I decided that the cab with those super sensitive, loud, speakers, would probably drownd out the combo speaker. I suppose I could have positioned the units so that it would balance out.

I finally decided that being able to use the cab with my other amps was something that I would enjoy trying. It will be fun to see how it sounds hooked up to my DRRI and AC15c1.


----------



## Micky

I am gonna press you on this...

Photos or it is a Line6!


----------



## Duffy49

Micky said:


> I am gonna press you on this...
> 
> Photos or it is a Line6!


 

Ok.


----------



## Duffy49

I'm trying to resize these photo's in Photobucket. They are way too big. I took them with my Nikon DSLR and it is set to a huge file size.





This is way better.













These should be a lot better. I'll try to get some where you can see the gold piping at the top better.


----------



## Micky

I love the gold piping!


----------



## Coronado

MAN those look SHARP Duff! VERY jealous!!! I bet they sound amazing!!


----------



## num1dano

With all the mods, speakers and cabs you can find your sound with a dsl 40 . These amps just are great. After a while you may mod them but read other posts every amp may need mods for your sound. Its just the way it goes. Why buy a 1200 dollar amp and mod it when you can buy a 700 dollar amp and mod it to sound the way you want and still not spend 1000 . What do you think? Maybe the dsl 40 is the best marshall yet. Get the sound you hear for less bucks. Whats your thoughts on this? Me I want ti sound like me! Me! Me! So im happy moding my dsl 40 for less and better tone anyway. Imo


----------



## emunder

Pretty damn good clip of the 100 right here....kid can play!

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zN9jHt6ml_E[/ame]


----------



## ucnick

I finally tried my two resistor and an LED amp & footswitch pedal mod idea as a kludge (see my 8-29-13 post on page 9), seemed to work pretty well! R101 is under the little DSP board. It plugs into a multipin header and two nylon support standoffs. I carefully lifted off the DSP board while compressing the support barbs. Instead of using two 300 ohm 1/4 W resistors I used a 274 ohm 1/4W across R101 and a 330 ohm 1/4W to the anode of the led to push the voltage being fed to the AT2313 up a little higher. I soldered the 274 ohm resistor across R101 and replaced the board. I then soldered the 330 ohm in series with the LED anode and in the pedal tacked the free resistor end to where the white lead comes in to the channel switch, and the LED cathode to where the black wire (ground) connects (use heatsink!!!). Powered it up and voila! It worked! Dang, I love it when a plan comes together!

The voltage drop across the LED + resistor is about 3.575V, quite sufficiently above the 0.6 * 5V = 3V needed as Vihmin according to the AT2313 datasheet. You can see the red LED on the footswitch is lit up (gotta look close, danged picture mighty small). When I switched to Green channel, the LED on the footswitch went dark and voltage dropped to about 20 mV or so, plenty low enough below Vilmax. 

Anyway, I hooked up a guitar and played with it, didn't hear any popping while switching even at higher gains on Red. Have to use at LEAST 1/4W as when the Green channel is selected the 274 ohm resistor is dropping 5V, so that works out to about 18 mA or about 90 mW, I figured a factor of 2.5 would be OK, maybe will go back in sometime and put in a 1/2W just to be extra safe. But 1/4W should handle it unless you are paying in a 70C room, which would be quite warm, about 158 degrees F.

If anybody wants a schematic of this or a parts list I can put one together, lmk. Two resistors and an LED, and a little sweat, works for me. No batteries to wear out. Pretty sweet, at least to me. Just have to complete the mod to the pedal (drill a hole and place and wire the LED) now, and I'm done! 

Might do same for reverb with a yellow LED or something, if so inclined...

(Sorry the pix are so small but it won't let me upload larger ones...)


----------



## Coronado

I finally picked it up! After reading so much about this great amp, I headed down to GC and picked up the DSL40. I dont think I have even started to scratch the surface of all the great sounds you can get from this amp! Its great by itself, but I think I'd like to try to change it up (perhaps after I enjoy it the way it is for a while). Perhaps try different tubes, or another speaker...? Hell, sounds great the way it is, but it sounds like there's so much you can tweak to get the perfect sound that you like! 

Thanks for all the great advice!
Ray


----------



## Coronado

not sure what happened with that last picture. Here's a better pic (I hope!).


----------



## Duffy49

Personally, I don't mind the stock Seventy/80 speaker in the DSL40c.

I have had amps with speakers that I liked a lot less. I find that the Seventy/80 is very clean and clear and has a good overall sound to it. I'm sure there are better speakers, but it is definitely better, IMO, than it gets rapped out to be. I actually like it.

I might swap it out for something else someday, but for now I don't mind it at all and it makes some of my other amps feel timid.

I have Seventy/80's in two other amps and they serve their purposes well. I put one in one of the amps and it was a major upgrade over the stock speaker. So, for a cheap speaker I think it is a super great value and sounds really good. Nothing to scoff at. Not that you were scoffing, but I have heard a lot of people putting the speaker down in other amps - they can't get rid of them quick enough. I don't think it's a speaker like that.


----------



## Alton

Quick note on speakers. I've tried the Emi Swamp Thang. Good speaker but not necessarily in an open back cab. Would be good in a 2x12 or even a 1x12 with closed back for full benefit of this speaker. Tried the Mesa Black Shadow. Too high-endy. More treble and lack of mid turned me off to this speaker in this cab. Probably a fine companion to the Swamp Thang in a closed back cab. Next was the WGS ET65. Better performance as a single 12 in an open back cab. Good bottom end, relatively smooth highs but mids were "weirdish". Today at rehearsal I flipped the switch to half power with the WGS ET65 in it and BINGO! That's the tone! That's the performance I want from the amp AND the speaker! Perfect for rehearals!

Love what this amp does live when I can turn it up. Will probably like it MUCH better with the WGS ET65.


----------



## hbucker

I'm wondering if anyone has an opinion/experience on how the WGS Retro 30 speaker sounds in the 40C? 

I'm also seeing that the stock speaker seems to need a good breaking-in before someone ultimately analyzes it's quality. Most of the "this speaker sucks" comments seem to come from folks who have only listened to their brand new amp. -generally speaking, of course. 

I'm gassing for this amp pretty hard... Been playing playing seriously for over 20 years. (Technically I've been playing for 40 years, just not seriously for the first 20) This would be my first Marshall.


----------



## toddincharlotte

Thinking about trying a DSL but not sure whether to go with the 40 or the 15. I currently play a VS100 and looking to switch to all tube. I spend most of my time in the OD1 channel with gain around 7 and volume around 3-4. 

If I do a 40 will I still get some decent tones at 25% volume? I play loud, just not crazy loud.

-Todd


----------



## JEB

IMHO, the 40C at 1/2 power turns down nicely for home use, though I really don't play any modern metal. For me, it works nicely for everything from 70's & 80's rock to country at polite levels 

A note on the speaker: I've had the amp for about 2 months now and the speaker has mellowed out considerably. I also did the C19 mod which was a big help (but I plan to put in a switch to have the stock 470pF, 100pF or open). My head keeps telling me there is no reason now to change out the speaker, but I'm just too curious to listen.

Does anyone know how much room (depth) the 40C has for a replacement speaker? The seventy/80 is listed as 4.7", but I'm going to need room for 6.5". 



'91 Gibson Les Paul, '13 Gibson SG, '96 Ep SG, '71 Fender Tel Bass, '10 Fender Strat, '92 Fender La Brea, Kustom SS Charger Tuck n Roll, Peavey Special 150, Marshall DSL40C


----------



## Micky

Plenty of room. I have an Eminence in mine and those are huge.

And the Seventy/80 does need a bit of use before it loosens up.

I took mine out and put it in my Princeton Reverb, and I love it there. It is extremely accurate, and I love the cleans from it.


----------



## Highroller54

FYI, 

I have had a DSL40C for about 7 weeks now and really love the amp. I bought it new.

The other day, I fired it up and nothing, no sound!! after messing with it a couple minutes I notice there was sound, but at a very low level, if fact you had to crank it up to at least 8 to get bedroom level low volume. Here what I tried and what finally corrected the issue.

Checked and changed all cables - no change
Tries a different guitar - no change
Cycled all controls - no change
Cycled channels - no change
Cycle the power and standby switches - no change
Plugged guitar dirently into the return jack on the loop - no Sound
Tapped tubes with Pencil, no noise or abnormal sounds
Tubes all burning and seemed to be glowing (Color) correctly.
Turned amp off and reseated all tubes - No Change
Pluged and cable into effects loop (jumpered Loop) No change
Engaged loop on/off switch, got a pop, with cable jumper in loop.
Cycled effect loop on/off switch, boom amp roared to life.

Amp is working fine now and there doesn't seem to be an issue. Switch or relay must of had a bad connection or dirty, I haven't used the loop since I've had the amp and haven't touched the switch, so it may just be a freak issue. If the issue happens again I will investigate further but right now the amp is rockin..

Hope this helps someone if they run into an issue like mine..

Thanks


----------



## Micky

It is important to document the amp settings whenever possible when reporting a problem.

For instance, after biasing my DSL, I plugged in a guitar and fired it up. No sound.
I switched channels, and still no sound. 

Then I realized I had the gain turned down all the way...

Sometimes it will help others pinpoint the problem/issue you are having.

Anyway, glad the FX issue is sorted out!


----------



## Highroller54

What amp settings do I really need to document. This isuue wan't anything to do with settings, it happen to be a switch not correctly making connection...



Micky said:


> It is important to document the amp settings whenever possible when reporting a problem.
> 
> For instance, after biasing my DSL, I plugged in a guitar and fired it up. No sound.
> I switched channels, and still no sound.
> 
> Then I realized I had the gain turned down all the way...
> 
> Sometimes it will help others pinpoint the problem/issue you are having.
> 
> Anyway, glad the FX issue is sorted out!


----------



## Micky

Highroller54 said:


> What amp settings do I really need to document. This issue wasn't anything to do with settings, it happen to be a switch not correctly making connection...


No, not you in this case, but I was gonna ask before you figured it out what your front panel settings were.

As I explained, it happened to me once, but I figured it out by re-checking the settings. A lot of times people won't specify what settings they have tried, and it sometimes just leads to more questions and takes longer to diagnose.

Also sometimes it helps to describe the instrument, as well as any changes or mods that may have occurred recently. The other thing to realize, is that there are more people watching for problems they can help with in the Workbench section. Sometimes questions posted in the wrong section may go unanswered for awhile because the people meant to see the question don't hang out in that particular section...


----------



## guitarman3001

I have a DSL40C on backorder and was wondering what is the best way you guys have found to be able to have clean, crunch, and lead sounds without having to manually switch the amp from clean to crunch on channel 1.

This is the only thing that has me a little concerned when it comes to using the amp for gigs. I will need all three sounds but since the footswitch only lets you switch from ch1 to ch2 and not from clean to crunch, I am not sure how everyone else is handling this.

Are most of you just leaving ch1 on the crunch setting and then rolling back your guitar's volume knob to clean it up? 

Also, probably a dumb question but I'm assuming any variation of the C19 mod would void the warranty?


----------



## Micky

guitarman3001 said:


> I have a DSL40C on backorder and was wondering what is the best way you guys have found to be able to have clean, crunch, and lead sounds without having to manually switch the amp from clean to crunch on channel 1.
> 
> This is the only thing that has me a little concerned when it comes to using the amp for gigs. I will need all three sounds but since the footswitch only lets you switch from ch1 to ch2 and not from clean to crunch, I am not sure how everyone else is handling this.
> 
> Are most of you just leaving ch1 on the crunch setting and then rolling back your guitar's volume knob to clean it up?
> 
> Also, probably a dumb question but I'm assuming any variation of the C19 mod would void the warranty?


You got it, exactly. Roll the guitar volume back for super-clean. Depending on the venue, you may need to use the full 40 watts for this, as the clean/crunch has a tendency to not be as loud as the Ultra channel.

And yes, modifying the amp in any way will void the warranty. Seems a bit silly to wait 5 years to mod an amp, doesn't it?


----------



## guitarman3001

Cool, thanks. Now if only the amp would get here..... I'm waiting for an almost two month backorder on this thing.


----------



## Micky

Backordered for months?
I guess I underestimated how popular this amp was gonna be!
You will love it when it gets there...


----------



## guitarman3001

Micky said:


> Backordered for months?
> I guess I underestimated how popular this amp was gonna be!
> You will love it when it gets there...



Yep. I ordered it in early September. I've received three different supposed ship dates. The one on my invoice says it'll ship to me on Oct 11. But the website I ordered it from then suddenly showed a ship date of mid-November and then it changed to Oct 31. 

Basically I have no clue when I'll be getting it. I hope the Oct. 11 date on my actual invoice is accurate though.


----------



## davidcatpi

Hey guys.

Been loving my DSL since I bought it. A few weeks ago I replaced the stock Seventy/80 with a beautiful Celestion Gold. These are my thoughts: The dirty part of the amp got tamed, not so fizzy anymore, needs less gain to achieve same saturation, has stronger low-mids and to my surprise it now has a tighter low end, to a point where I hear a bigger difference when using a Keeley compressor, basically, it responds much faster, much fuller.

The bad, clean side went waaay too warm, to a point where I find myself rolling the highs on the amp almost all the way up for some chime but since I'm using a Gibson LP with 490/498t humbuckers maybe it needs a second chance with some Classics 57's or single coil pickups.

Now, lately I noticed that the fx loop adds some noise, just a bit that a noise gate won't catch because it seems to generate after the amp's return jack, if I use the noise gate (both ISP and BOSS) in front of the amp, no fx loop engaged, the amp is dead quiet. Maybe its just fx loop's nature or maybe a tube. V3 - V4 maybe?

(testing both setups in the clean channel with just the noise gate. No ground loops involved, double checked with EB Hum Eliminator and Hum X)

I'll take one noise gate and test it with a JVM combo at the local retailer. I know those amp's have a fx loop level switch, maybe that would help.


----------



## Micky

I also use an LP with the same pickups as you.
Have you tried diddling the presence and resonance controls to bring up the highs and tame the lows?

I know on my Haze there was a deep switch I used when I switched between a Strat and an LP...


----------



## davidcatpi

Treble 8 Middle 4 Bass 4
Presence 6-8 Resonance 3

Is what I use for cleans with the LP. With the Seventy/80 I kept my Presence at 3 and Treble at 6 and get a nice all-around tone with really chimey high strings with the neck pickup.


----------



## JEB

David, did you do the C19 mod or is the amp stock?
I was thinking about going with the Celestion Gold, but after reading that, maybe the Creamback would be a better choice for me.


----------



## Micky

Personally, I think ANY replacement speaker is gonna sound a bit better than the Seventy/80. It is just way too bright and lacking in bass to be a good match for this amp.

I think the Seventy/80 might be an excellent candidate for a closed back 2X12...
Like the new MX212 Marshall plans to release this month.


----------



## guitarman3001

Has anyone tried a WGS Liberator in this amp? Been looking at that and the WGS ET65. My plan is to order the speaker before my amp gets here so I can swap it out right away. I've had cabs and combos with the 70/80 and I don't really care much for them. They sounded very brittle, harsh, and a little to scooped for my tastes. I'm pretty sure I won't like it in the DSL40C either.


----------



## ucnick

FWIW I put a Weber Vintage 12F in and been in hawg heaven ever since...


----------



## ucnick

guitarman3001 said:


> I have a DSL40C on backorder and was wondering what is the best way you guys have found to be able to have clean, crunch, and lead sounds without having to manually switch the amp from clean to crunch on channel 1.
> 
> This is the only thing that has me a little concerned when it comes to using the amp for gigs. I will need all three sounds but since the footswitch only lets you switch from ch1 to ch2 and not from clean to crunch, I am not sure how everyone else is handling this.
> 
> Are most of you just leaving ch1 on the crunch setting and then rolling back your guitar's volume knob to clean it up?
> 
> Also, probably a dumb question but I'm assuming any variation of the C19 mod would void the warranty?


Exactly. Use the volume to get what I need. I also use a custom design cascaded-gain booster/OD to push it into extreme territory and get a volume boost when needed.


----------



## guitarman3001

Cool. I called to check on the status of my backorder and they told me they had a restock they could send me right away with full warranty and for a pretty ridiculous price. I took them up on it so I should have it by early next week. Looking forward to getting it. Been playing for over 20 years and have been through at least 25 amps but this will be my first Marshall.


----------



## guitarman3001

BTW, I was a little hesitant to go with a restock but it does come with the full warranty and regular return policy. Is there anything in particular I should look for when I get it to make sure it wasn't messed with? I do plan on checking to make sure the stock tubes and speaker are in it. Anything else?


----------



## rbnum1fan

I have had mine for about 6 weeks and love it more every day. The guys in my band told me they would kick my ass if i ever went back to my POD HD 500


----------



## guitarman3001

Just got my DSL40C today. It had a problem which I posted in another thread. I also posted my first impressions but was asked to post that info here so, here goes:

First impressions are very good except I think the common description of the gain channel vs the clean/crunch channel is backward. I'd say that instead of the lead channel being too bright, the crunch channel is too dark and bass-heavy. If anything, I'd want a mod that leaves the lead channel alone but makes the crunch channel a little brighter and less bassy. I guess the C19 mod has a similar result but by cutting down the highs on the lead channel instead but to me I think the crunch channel would still be too bassy relative to the lead channel. 

Does anyone know if there's any mod that might leave the lead channel alone but cut some of the bass from the crunch channel?

Also, I found a general description of what V1 through V4 do but does anyone know more specifically what they do? Do they all affect both channels or are some of them only for ch1 and others only for ch2? And what function do they serve for each channel?

BTW, to add to the above, I also noticed that when you turn the gain down on either channel, the tone gets thinner and has less low end. That may be why there is a noticeable tonal change between the two channels. Ch1 sounds better with the gain turned up all the way, which also increases the bass. Ch2 sounds better with the gain lower, I'd say right around 12:00, which is why it likely has less bass and more treble. If you have Ch1 set with the gain all the way up and Ch2 with the gain at 12:00 or lower, Ch1 will have more bass than Ch2. But if the gain is set roughly the same on both channels, I noticed that it's a little more even. Ch1 still has more bass and less treble but the difference isn't as big as it is when the gain on Ch1 is higher. When I tried turning down the gain on Ch1, the transition between the two channels was more even.


----------



## Micky

Dealing with too much bass has never been a problem for me. Try adjusting the resonance a bit and keep the bass turned down and experiment. The guitar and pickups will have a large contribution to this as well.

As far as the preamp section is concerned, each 12AX7 is a dual triode configuration, and listed on the schematic as V1a & V1b, etc. V4 is the Phase Inverter, and actually part of the power amp section.

The guitar input on the amp is tied to V1a, and is the first 'gain' stage, and is present in all modes. It is passed along to V2a in Clean and Crunch mode, the Classic channel bypasses V1b completely. V2a is the 2nd gain stage in the Classic channel, and passes to V2b and then V3a and V3b which controls the tone stack.

In the Ultra Mode, V1a passes to V1b which is the 2nd gain stage for that channel. V1b is only used in the Ultra channel. The signal passes to V2a and the rest as described above. So as you can see the Ultra Channel has an extra gain stage (V1b) before the rest of the gain stages in the amp.

The C19 mod is a capacitor tied to the gain pot on the Ultra Channel. On OD1 this cap is tied to ground and does not affect the signal. On ODII the cap forms a filter that allows higher frequencies to pass when that mode is used on the Ultra Channel. The mod does not affect OD1 mode.

I am certain others will chime in and correct my mistakes and offer some info on the darkness you are describing. Until then - ROCK ON!


----------



## guitarman3001

Cool. So is there one or more tubes in particular that would have a bigger effect on Ch2? For example, would I be able to put a lower gain tube in one of the slots which would allow me to turn the gain knob up on the ultra channel, thereby increasing the bass, but with less gain than a 12AX7? 

Seems to me like this would allow me to turn the gain knob higher which would reduce the effect C19 has on the treble response, but if it's a lower gain tube like a 12AT7, would essentially give me the same amount of gain with the gain turned up as I'd have with a 12AX7 with the gain turned down.

Does that make sense?

And I wouldn't mind if it gave me less gain in Ch1 either. I intend to push that channel with an overdrive pedal. 

But this sounds, at least to me, like a possible way to reduce the effect C19 has on Ch2 without actually having to clip or desolder it.


----------



## Micky

The DSL was designed to have 12AX7's in the preamp section.

As you are relatively new to the amp I would say to keep experimenting and see what different sounds you can get before you start wanting to change things.

If the gain is too much, turn it down. If the bass is too much then turn it down. These controls exist for a reason, try them out before you pass judgement. This is an incredibly versatile amp...


----------



## guitarman3001

Micky said:


> The DSL was designed to have 12AX7's in the preamp section.
> 
> As you are relatively new to the amp I would say to keep experimenting and see what different sounds you can get before you start wanting to change things.
> 
> If the gain is too much, turn it down. If the bass is too much then turn it down. These controls exist for a reason, try them out before you pass judgement. This is an incredibly versatile amp...




Not passing judgement. Actually, I am...and so far I love it. 

It has the Marshall tones I like so it's all good. I'm just trying to find the right balance between the two channels given that they are EQd differently. 

Many preamp circuits are designed to have 12ax7s in them but they work just fine with lower gain alternatives like a 12at7 or a 12ay7. I'm thinking that if I can lower the gain level in the Ch2 preamp section by using a lower gain tube somewhere, then I can turn the gain knob up and end up with the same relative gain but with C19 having less influence on the tone stack. If that's possible, it sounds to me like an alternative workaround to the C19 mod. I'm just not sure in which position a lower gain tube would work best in order to lower the gain on Ch2. 

Any suggestions? I have a 12AT7 sitting here unused.

BTW, I also have a pair of Mullard 12AX7s here that I'm dying to do something with. What positions do you think those would work best in?


----------



## bridge500t

OK, so I have had my DSL40C for about 8 months now and have always been happy with it. Love the sound with no mods what so ever. I've been reading how people have changed the speaker and said it was an improvement but never really thought about doing it for the most part. So 2 days ago curiosity finally got the best of me and I pulled out an Eminence Man-o-war that I had in a 2x12 cab sitting in one of my closets and threw it in there just to check it out. WOW!!!!!!!!!! Like I said, I was really happy with the amp as is but man does that speaker sound great in it. It sounds so smooth now, much deeper, the cleans still sound good, and it just rocks on the lead channel. I do have to say though since the speaker is a higher watt than the stock at half power it does sound a little thinner now. But put it at full power and it just screams!!! So if you are thinking of a new speaker, definitely worth a thought. I wish i had a way of posting a sound clip but all I have is my camera mic on my computer and it just clips out.


----------



## ibmorjamn

bridge500t said:


> OK, so I have had my DSL40C for about 8 months now and have always been happy with it. Love the sound with no mods what so ever. I've been reading how people have changed the speaker and said it was an improvement but never really thought about doing it for the most part. So 2 days ago curiosity finally got the best of me and I pulled out an Eminence Man-o-war that I had in a 2x12 cab sitting in one of my closets and threw it in there just to check it out. WOW!!!!!!!!!! Like I said, I was really happy with the amp as is but man does that speaker sound great in it. It sounds so smooth now, much deeper, the cleans still sound good, and it just rocks on the lead channel. I do have to say though since the speaker is a higher watt than the stock at half power it does sound a little thinner now. But put it at full power and it just screams!!! So if you are thinking of a new speaker, definitely worth a thought. I wish i had a way of posting a sound clip but all I have is my camera mic on my computer and it just clips out.


what about your cell phone to record a clip?


----------



## Micky

Man-O-Wars are great speakers. Wish I had some...


----------



## Micky

guitarman3001 said:


> BTW, I also have a pair of Mullard 12AX7s here that I'm dying to do something with. What positions do you think those would work best in?



V1 & V2 if it were me, but since no adjustments are needed when swapping (rolling) preamp tubes, I would try them in all positions. I have a Mullard in my V1 slot and I love it!


----------



## guitarman3001

Micky said:


> V1 & V2 if it were me, but since no adjustments are needed when swapping (rolling) preamp tubes, I would try them in all positions. I have a Mullard in my V1 slot and I love it!




Cool. Do you have any idea what slot would work with a lower gain tube to reduce the gain on ch.2? From the info I've been able to find, it looks like either V1 or V2 would have the intended effect. Still trying to figure that one out...


----------



## Micky

guitarman3001 said:


> Cool. Do you have any idea what slot would work with a lower gain tube to reduce the gain on ch.2? From the info I've been able to find, it looks like either V1 or V2 would have the intended effect. Still trying to figure that one out...



Go ahead and try a lower gain tube in both V1 or V2. See what you like better.

In the end I think you will stick with 12AX7's though...


----------



## guitarman3001

Cool. I'll start with the 12AT7 I have sitting here and see how that goes. BTW, just to make sure I understand correctly, the C19 bright cap is tied to the gain knob on ch.2 and when the gain is maxed, the c19 cap is essentially taken out of the circuit? The higher the gain, the less effect C19 has?


----------



## Micky

guitarman3001 said:


> Cool. I'll start with the 12AT7 I have sitting here and see how that goes. BTW, just to make sure I understand correctly, the C19 bright cap is tied to the gain knob on ch.2 and when the gain is maxed, the c19 cap is essentially taken out of the circuit? The higher the gain, the less effect C19 has?



Actually I think the opposite is true, but I am not in a spot where I can look at the schematic...


----------



## num1dano

I know at bedroom levels and jam levels the mod makes the eq even out between green and red channels.


----------



## JEB

Does the output on the clean channel for the dsl40c seem too low to anyone else?
Maybe this is just the way it's intended, expecting to use pedal in front of it possibly?

It just seems mine is unusually low...I really have to crank the gain and volume for even bedroom volumes for a strat. Even for my sg with active pickups, tame bedroom settings are Gain:5, Vol:5, Kneck 5. The clean channel sounds great though...just lower in volume than I'd expect.

Is this similar to what everyone else gets or does something sound out whack with mine?


----------



## Micky

JEB said:


> Does the output on the clean channel for the dsl40c seem too low to anyone else?
> Maybe this is just the way it's intended, expecting to use pedal in front of it possibly?
> 
> It just seems mine is unusually low...I really have to crank the gain and volume for even bedroom volumes for a strat. Even for my sg with active pickups, tame bedroom settings are Gain:5, Vol:5, Kneck 5. The clean channel sounds great though...just lower in volume than I'd expect.
> 
> Is this similar to what everyone else gets or does something sound out whack with mine?



Sounds about par. The lack of gain is what the clean mode on the classic channel is all about. Ultra clean. I find myself having to use 40W mode if I am gonna perform using clean, and having to cut the master way back if I have to use any other mode while set on 40W.


----------



## caiokiss

JEB said:


> Does the output on the clean channel for the dsl40c seem too low to anyone else?
> Maybe this is just the way it's intended, expecting to use pedal in front of it possibly?
> 
> It just seems mine is unusually low...I really have to crank the gain and volume for even bedroom volumes for a strat. Even for my sg with active pickups, tame bedroom settings are Gain:5, Vol:5, Kneck 5. The clean channel sounds great though...just lower in volume than I'd expect.
> 
> Is this similar to what everyone else gets or does something sound out whack with mine?



I agree the volume is lower in the clean channel, but crank the gain and volume for bedroom volumes??? No way! 
On mine, gain:5 and vol:5 is way too high for bedroom (at 40W).


----------



## Micky

caiokiss said:


> I agree the volume is lower in the clean channel, but crank the gain and volume for bedroom volumes??? No way!
> On mine, gain:5 and vol:5 is way too high for bedroom (at 40W).



Yup 5 & 5 is waaay too loud.
I keep my Classic Channel gain about 8, and for low volume in 20W mode, master about 1 maybe 2.


----------



## guitarman3001

Micky said:


> Actually I think the opposite is true, but I am not in a spot where I can look at the schematic...



Is the schematic available somewhere? Where can I get a copy of it?


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Just got mine today will do a proper test next day or two. Loud! I find it goes to quite reasonable level very quickly like at 2 - 3 on output volume. Nice! Will be more definitive soon but I like!


----------



## guitarman3001

Still looking for a schematic if anyone has one. My DSL40C should be here in a week and a half and based on the 20 minutes I spent with the defective one I had but sent back, I'm pretty sure I'll want to do either the C19 mod or preferably, try to find a mod that will make the clean/crunch channel brighter. My amp tech should be able to figure out if this is possible if I provide him with the schematic for it.


----------



## Micky

?


----------



## guitarman3001

Micky said:


> I have the schematic. Why do you need it?



I was able to get my hands on the schematic. The reason I'm looking for it is because like I mentioned earlier, to me, at least during the brief time I spent with the one I had to send back, I found that rather than CH2 being too bright, CH1 was not bright enough. So I was wondering if instead of a mod like the C19 mod which makes CH2 darker, there might be a way to make CH1 brighter instead. 


Looking at the schematic, there's a capacitor for Ch1 that looks like it might be comparable to what C19 does for Ch2. It's at C4 and has a 100pF cap. So, I am wondering if maybe replacing that capacitor with a higher value like the 470pF one that's at C19 would make Ch1 brighter, which to me would be preferable than making Ch2 darker.

Do you know if this would work or would I still be better off changing C19 and leaving CH1 alone?


----------



## Micky

You will be better off to tweak the presence and resonance controls than to mod the Clean channel. C4 will affect both the Clean and the Crunch, best to leave it alone.

Have you had a lot of time on the amp? Sometimes after the speaker loosens up a bit it sounds quite different...


----------



## guitarman3001

Micky said:


> You will be better off to tweak the presence and resonance controls than to mod the Clean channel. C4 will affect both the Clean and the Crunch, best to leave it alone.
> 
> Have you had a lot of time on the amp? Sometimes after the speaker loosens up a bit it sounds quite different...




Haven't had much time on the amp. Just going by initial impressions. I understand that C4 will affect both clean and crunch modes on Channel 1 which is what I think I'd like to do. I haven't decided yet exactly what I'm going to do but right now I'm exploring options so I know what's possible and what isn't. 

What I do know is that I did notice what many others have noticed, which is that the EQ is not consistent between the two channels and is something I'll probably have to address before the amp works for me as a two-channel gigging amp, which is what I'm buying it for. I just think that for me, a better solution would be to make CH1 brighter rather than CH2 darker and I'm trying to figure out how I might accomplish that.


----------



## Micky

I think a lot might depend on the pickups of your guitar.
What are you using?


----------



## guitarman3001

Micky said:


> I think a lot might depend on the pickups of your guitar.
> What are you using?



I use a bunch of different guitars. Not sure how that would make a difference though. Regardless of what guitar or pickups I use, one channel is brighter than the other and one of the channels needs to be modified so that the tone is consistent when switching from one channel to the other. 

But to answer the question, I have a LP with P90s, a Flying V with Burstbucker Pros, a LP with Burstbucker 3s, a Michael Kelly with Rockfields, a Strat with the stock single coils, a Tele with a single coil sized humbucker and the stock single coil in the neck position, an SG with a GFS VEH bridge pickup. I use them all. 

Bottom line though, I want to make the EQ consistent across both channels and so far, I think I'd rather accomplish that by making CH1 brighter, if at all possible.


----------



## rbnum1fan

I have grown VERY attached to the Classic Crunch Channel with the Gain on 10,volume at 6. Mids and Highs at 4,Bass on 6 and Presence and Reasonance both at 9.
I picked up a vintage MXR Distortion + pedal and put the output and gain at 3 o clock and get the thickest and most articulate Rhythm tone. ( it's VERY much like Glenn Tipton's late 70's early 80's tone)


----------



## caiokiss

Yesterday I've tryed for the first time the cruch channel boosted by a tube screamer (TS-9). AWESOME tone! I had tryed using clean boosts, like the MXR microamp and the EP booster, and I liked it. But the crunch channel+TS-9 combination really impressed me!


----------



## ibmorjamn

Micky said:


> 3H, ClassicTone #40-18058 - I think I ordered it from Amp Parts Direct.
> DC resistance was 112 ohms. (I think the ad is at the top of this page, but I have Ad-Block plus installed so I don't see it anymore...)
> 
> What I really wanted was a 10H choke, but I couldn't find one with a high enough current rating (this one was 250ma). The resistor installed was a 7-watt encased in ceramic, so I know there is a bit of current running thru it. If I can find one cheap enough, I might replace it, but at this point I still need to play with this one installed a lot more in order to understand completely what the changes are. Also a 10H choke with sufficient current rating may be several pounds heavier, and at this point I am not interested in making the combo any heavier at all. At 57 pounds, it is bordering on 2X12 territory, and I kinda wanted to stay away from there...
> 
> To go from a single resistor that costs a buck or so to a choke that costs $35 is certainly a design consideration for Marshall, but as a relative newbie to amplifier electronics (I have extensive Engineering experience in Industrial Electronics, RF Design, and Data Collection...) it is difficult to quantify changes that are more subjective than anything else.
> 
> For example, a choke in this application should definitely filter the power to the B+ lines a lot better than the R/C network that is there, but will not 'load down' the circuit as much because of the lower resistance (270 ohm resistor vs. 112 ohm choke) and therefore allow more current to reach the screens and grids of the tubes. How this affects overall frequency response, especially lower frequencies is still an unknown to me. I DO KNOW that a resistor/capacitor type of filter network will pass more high frequencies and tend to filter or cut more low frequencies, so removing the resistor from this part of the circuit and replacing it with a choke should 'theoretically' allow more bass response. This is what I still need to investigate.
> 
> So along with this, there are three other controls I still need to play with. Right away, after first firing up the amp I thought the reverb sounded better. I dunno why, because this is all a digital lo-power circuit handled by op-amps in a different section of the circuit all together. But it sounded better. The other controls are the Resonance and the Presence.
> 
> Both these controls had very little effect in the stock amp, one seemed to adjust the treble a bit, and the other seems to muddy up the bass a touch. I never did quite understand why these controls were even there, I come from the Fender camp where such controls never existed. My other Marshalls also lacked these controls somewhat, and because they don't seem to adjust too much on the DSL40c, I haven't really played with them too much.
> 
> But I have a feeling that because of the choke installation these controls may come to life. At first I was very quick to mis-judge the change I had made, and I feel like a real asshole now that I have had a moment to experiment with things and realize exactly what I have done.
> 
> Sorry to be long winded, but this is the thread to relate your experiences. Other people need to know what an extremely versatile amp this is, and as long as there is a growing user base we will all benefit from each other in that respect.



This is a topic as of late. I found a choke calculator but I need the numbers to plug in to it, anyone ?
Hagerman Technology LLC: Design Theory


----------



## MarshallDog

Hi All, new to this Forum and am awaiting my DSL40C to show up. I will be changing speakers, rolling tubes, maybe do the C19 mod, check bias etc. However, I have a question. Does anyone know where I can get a copy of the wiring schematic? I have been searching this form and many Google search's and have not found anything yet. I would like to find out what resistor is the Choke because I may add a Mercury Magnetics choke in its place seeing as I have one kicking around. Has anyone done this yet? 

Thanks,

MarshallDog


----------



## Rocktane

It's out there. There's another Marshall forum that has a section for schematics.


----------



## ibmorjamn

MarshallDog said:


> Hi All, new to this Forum and am awaiting my DSL40C to show up. I will be changing speakers, rolling tubes, maybe do the C19 mod, check bias etc. However, I have a question. Does anyone know where I can get a copy of the wiring schematic? I have been searching this form and many Google search's and have not found anything yet. I would like to find out what resistor is the Choke because I may add a Mercury Magnetics choke in its place seeing as I have one kicking around. Has anyone done this yet?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> MarshallDog


check micky's post 130 in reference to the choke install. I am also interested in this.


----------



## Micky

Yup. I installed the ClassicTone 3h choke.

Works wonders...


----------



## MarshallDog

Micky said:


> Yup. I installed the ClassicTone 3h choke.
> 
> Works wonders...



Micky, Thanks for the response and glad to hear it is worth it. Just to make sure, it is R111 the 270 ohm 7w ceramic resistor that the choke replaces, correct?


----------



## Micky

Yes. It is a large rectangular ceramic resistor that stands off the board.
Here is a photo:


----------



## MarshallDog

bridge500t said:


> does any one know what cover of any of the other combo amps that Marshall makes will fit the DSL40?



As soon as I get my DSL40C and it checks out fine, I am ordering a D2F padded cover off of ebay. The link is below. I have owned several of these covers for other amps and all I can say is you get what you pay for. They are thick, will protect your amp, fit excellent, high quality and their customer service is excellent. Haven't found a better cover yet. Hope this helps..

D2F® Padded Cover for Marshall DSL 40C 112 Combo | eBay


----------



## MarshallDog

Micky said:


> Yes. It is a large rectangular ceramic resistor that stands off the board.
> Here is a photo:



Thanks a bunch Bro...


----------



## Micky

Rocktane said:


> It's out there. There's another Marshall forum that has a section for schematics.



Yes, I manage those over there...

If anyone needs schematics for Marshalls and can't find them on the net, they can send a pleasant email and I will reply with the schematic if I have it.

I was the first to have the schematic for the new DSL's as well as the SL-5.


----------



## Micky

Here is a photo of the installed choke, I ran the wires thru the hole where a 100 watter would have a tube...


----------



## MarshallDog

Micky said:


> Here is a photo of the installed choke, I ran the wires thru the hole where a 100 watter would have a tube...



Thanks, looks great. FYI, I just canceled my order at Sweetwater due to the delivery being pushed out to the end of the month and ordered one from Music Store Live South Burlington, Vermont...should have it Thursday


----------



## Micky

So where is Music Store Live in S. Burlington? I have been to the GC in Burlington, (Williston actually) formerly Daddy's Music but never heard of this place?


----------



## ibmorjamn

Micky said:


> Yes. It is a large rectangular ceramic resistor that stands off the board.
> Here is a photo:



Micky , do you have all the before and after pics. I know this is not real complicated but I am more mechanically inclined than electric but with a few good pics and discription I think I can do this.


----------



## Micky

Well the above pic is the before pic.
Of the board that is...
Below is the after pic:





Sorry it is a bit small in a large pic. If your soldering skills are good, you can remove the resistor from the exposed side. You can also solder the two choke wires to the board from this side. Please remember Marshall uses lead-free solder and it may take a bit more heat than most people are used to when unsoldering the resistor. 

Other than cutting the case for the side handles this is the easiest mod for the 40c.


----------



## ibmorjamn

Thanks a lot for all your response. Your knowledge is greatly appreciated here Micky


----------



## Micky

ibmorjamn said:


> Thanks a lot for all your response. Your knowledge is greatly appreciated here Micky



No problem. Next time I have the chassis out I will take better shots of some of the more important areas. The thing sounds so good as of late I have absolutely no plans to mess with it anytime soon... Between the choke, the speaker and the NOS preamp tubes I am in heaven.

Gotta work on the Haze 15 soon, maybe this weekend. What I really need to do is get the DSLR out with the macro tubes and some decent lighting. Then I can take it to another level as far as close-up photos are concerned. Although the Coolpix P90 does pretty good as you can see.

The best part is being able to help others understand and work on their own amps...


----------



## MarshallDog

Micky said:


> So where is Music Store Live in S. Burlington? I have been to the GC in Burlington, (Williston actually) formerly Daddy's Music but never heard of this place?



Well, I think it is mainly an on-line store, they don't give an address but here is their link: www.musicstorelive.com

They have great prices based on my experience and are real nice to deal with over the phone. They are listed in Williston but they don't list there exact street address...


----------



## MarshallDog

Micky, I just ordered the ClassicTone 3H Choke, wow, a lot lower in cost than an MM and it is constructed like the old vintage ones! I spoke to Rick at ClassicTone and he mentioned checking the voltage delta between the screen and plates on the power tubes before and after to make sure there is still a several volt delta between them and if there is not, you might want to change the screen resistors from 1K to maybe 1.5K. I am wondering if you or anyone else has ever gone this far? I have used the MM 3H Choke on a JVM and on a Haze 40C and have never done this nor has anyone ever mentioned this and everything sounds fine and works great and I don't want to get that deep into it. Of course a re-bias after the choke is installed is a must. 

Any thoughts or concerns on this suggestion? Just wondering, I don't want to screw up a brand new amp but then again I think I am now over thinking this based on the conversation. Your expert advise is much welcome and appreciated.

Thanks...


----------



## Micky

Never checked the voltage drop, never needed to in my opinion. The amp sounds very close to original, and while it still sounds great I wasn't interested in screwing with things.

This is one reason I chose the 3h choke, it was the only one within reason that could carry 250ma current and had a resistance close to the original.

Check it with yours though (before and after) and post your findings here so we can discuss it. It is a really easy install.

I was looking at the OT upgrades that MM has, and while at $185, I still think it is a bit expensive. The original OT in the 40c has only 16 & 8-ohm outputs, I am interested in running a 4-ohm output now that I have an 8-ohm speaker in the combo...

Maybe ClassicTone (actually Triode) has something that will work well in this model?


----------



## MarshallDog

Micky said:


> Never checked the voltage drop, never needed to in my opinion. The amp sounds very close to original, and while it still sounds great I wasn't interested in screwing with things.
> 
> This is one reason I chose the 3h choke, it was the only one within reason that could carry 250ma current and had a resistance close to the original.
> 
> Check it with yours though (before and after) and post your findings here so we can discuss it. It is a really easy install.
> 
> I was looking at the OT upgrades that MM has, and while at $185, I still think it is a bit expensive. The original OT in the 40c has only 16 & 8-ohm outputs, I am interested in running a 4-ohm output now that I have an 8-ohm speaker in the combo...
> 
> Maybe ClassicTone (actually Triode) has something that will work well in this model?



Micky, The 3H choke from MM cost me 45.00 buck last year for the Haze 40C. I didn't measure the resistance or anything, just popped it in, re-biased the amp and away we went, no issues. Eith the choke being an inductor not a resistor the resistance in theory should be zero if I remember back from the college days?? I will try to remember to measure the resistance of the ClassicTone Choke when I get it but I don't think I want to mess around trying to measure plate and screen voltages, just seems like it would be to easy to mess something up with those high voltages if you have never done it before.


----------



## MarshallDog

OK Guys, got my brand new DSL40C today! Tested it out and all was fine until I plugged in the footswitch. Both the Channel & Reverb buttons would switch the channels and the Reverb button would only turn the reverb on/off in the Ultra channel, it had no effect on the Classic channel, WTF!!! So I pulled the cover off and checked for lose wires and did some continuity checks and to me everything looked fine. I then called Music Store Live and spoke to a Guitar Sales person there describing what was going on and he thought something might be up with the wiring so I sent him a pic which is attached (the RED & BLACK needed to be switched). He thought for sure that the RED and BLACK wires installed wrong and needed to be switched. I then found a Youtube video of a Tech fixing the power cord on the same pedal and sure enough, the RED and BLACK were switched on his pedal. So The Music Store Live is having Marshall send me a new pedal seeing as they don't have any instock. Well, I was pissed and couldn't wait so I fired up my iron and switched them and what do ya know, the pedal and amp works fine!! Now that is some ****ing great Marshall QC! Anyway I wanted to post this just in case anyone else gets lucky and gets a bad footswitch, maybe this 5 min fix will help them out. I will still keep the new pedal as payment for my time, ha!

The amp sounds pretty dam good to me and I think it is a keeper. However, I do have a question, does lifting C19 make the Ultra channel darker, less fizzy or both? I don't think the Ultra channel is too brite just a bit fizzy and I am wondering if this will reduce the fizz a bit?

Thanks...


----------



## saxon68

Crank it and the fizz becomes roar.


----------



## Micky

Wow! Footswitch miswired? Probably assembled in the UK...

Anyway, yes the C19 mod will remove a bit of fizz, and just a bit of treble. Not necessarily 'darker' per se, but if you clip it or unsolder it, the mod is easy to reverse.

As this is a new amp for you, I would suggest playing it a bit before modding anything, get a good feel for the amp and the controls and make sure you know what you are doing. While you are in there, check the bias.

Nice catch on the footswitch BTW...


----------



## MarshallDog

This amp kicks ass for under 700.00, just wish you could switch between the two Classic and the two Ultra channels via the footswitch like many others have mentioned. 

I played for a while and couldn't resist what the tone of this amp could be capable of so I went ahead and changed all the tubes to Mullards, re-biased the amp to 70%, dropped in a Celestion G12M-65 Creamback and said what the hell and lifter one leg of C19. All I can say is that it now sounds even more vintage than it did before as compared to my 83 JCM 800 and 80 JMP all which have Mullards in them. This amp is pretty amazing as long as the Ultra channel gain is around 4-5 for my tastes. Now, I can't wait to install the ClassicTone Choke.

FYI, about a month ago I purchased a 1200.00 H&K TubeMeister 30 1X12 Combo. Tried it out and returned it in two days. I could tell the tone and build quality was not worth the 1200.00 for me (IMO). 

Thank you all for all of you tech knowledge related to this little beast!!!

Got to go play it some more!


----------



## guitarman3001

Cool, glad you got your issue sorted out. BTW, I received a call from M123 to let me know that the backorder date has now been pushed back to an undetermined date in late January. 

And I also previously had a H&K Tubemeister which was a disaster. Worst piece of crap I've ever owned. Long story short, due to a design/engineering flaw, all of the TM18 combos had a defective reverb circuit and after exchanging three of them and sending one directly to H&K's US distributor and warranty center, they determined it couldn't be fixed. 

In the meantime while I wait patiently for my DSL40C, earlier this week I ordered one of the Ampeg GVT52 1x12s that MF is blowing out for $349. For that price I couldn't resist.

BTW, would you be able to post a pic of the footswitch wiring after you fixed it so we know what the proper wiring is supposed to look like?


----------



## MarshallDog

guitarman3001 said:


> Cool, glad you got your issue sorted out. BTW, I received a call from M123 to let me know that the backorder date has now been pushed back to an undetermined date in late January.
> 
> And I also previously had a H&K Tubemeister which was a disaster. Worst piece of crap I've ever owned. Long story short, due to a design/engineering flaw, all of the TM18 combos had a defective reverb circuit and after exchanging three of them and sending one directly to H&K's US distributor and warranty center, they determined it couldn't be fixed.
> 
> In the meantime while I wait patiently for my DSL40C, earlier this week I ordered one of the Ampeg GVT52 1x12s that MF is blowing out for $349. For that price I couldn't resist.
> 
> BTW, would you be able to post a pic of the footswitch wiring after you fixed it so we know what the proper wiring is supposed to look like?



Wow, unbelievable, sometime in January???!!! Sorry to hear that. What are they doing over there? The footswitch is sealed back up and but the next time I have it opened, I will post a pic but for now the only change is swapping the RED & BLACK wires that are coming out of the cord, nothing else changes. I will check out an Ampeg GVT52, just curious and good luck...


----------



## Coronado

I have been amazed at how much I enjoy this amp. It really seems perfect for all types of playing. I have started a nice little collection of amps over the last couple years (JCM 800, DSL 100, TSL 60, Haze 40, AVT 50h, Fender Blues Jr., and recently I found a SL-5 at a local guitar shop). I honeslty can say I really love each amp, and over the last couple years I think I have found each of their own special sounds. 

BUT, it seems that every time I go to play, I go to the DSL40. I think it sounds great even at lower volumes. I love the sounds you can get out of it - great cleans up to crushing gain. This could be my favorite Marshall amp ever!

I do have one question for you guys, if I may: When I engage the effects loop button, I hear a fairly houd hum. I recently moved to another house in the last month, and I noticed that same hum at the last place too. Is this normal? Any way to cut back that hum without using a noise gate? I noticed the hum even with no OD pedals engaged. Any way to cut this back a bit?

Thanks guys!


----------



## guitarman3001

MarshallDog said:


> Wow, unbelievable, sometime in January???!!! Sorry to hear that. What are they doing over there? The footswitch is sealed back up and but the next time I have it opened, I will post a pic but for now the only change is swapping the RED & BLACK wires that are coming out of the cord, nothing else changes. I will check out an Ampeg GVT52, just curious and good luck...




Ok, so looking at the picture you posted, basically the red wire that is currently attached to the left post of the switch on the right needs to be swapped with the black wire that's attached to the center post of the switch on the left? If that's all it is, got it. No need to post the new pic. 

And I got the Ampeg this morning. Had a chance to play it for about half hour during lunch. So far I'm very impressed with it. It's a totally different vibe than the Marshall but the best way I can describe it is it's vintage to the bone. Does the thick old school ZZ Top and Joe Walsh type of tones very well.


----------



## MarshallDog

guitarman3001 said:


> Ok, so looking at the picture you posted, basically the red wire that is currently attached to the left post of the switch on the right needs to be swapped with the black wire that's attached to the center post of the switch on the left? If that's all it is, got it. No need to post the new pic.
> 
> And I got the Ampeg this morning. Had a chance to play it for about half hour during lunch. So far I'm very impressed with it. It's a totally different vibe than the Marshall but the best way I can describe it is it's vintage to the bone. Does the thick old school ZZ Top and Joe Walsh type of tones very well.



You got it man, thats all there is to it. It sounds like that amp has a great tone, I love ZZ and Walsh's tone, congrats!


----------



## MarshallDog

Micky,

I was just thinking and love to tinker a bit and got this idea about closing off the (2) holes where the other (2) EL34's would go in a 100 W version. The reason I got this idea is because heat rises off the power tubes right into these (2) holes which adds extra heat to the electronics area where it is trapped. So, if I sealed these off, less heat in the electronics, right? I have a really simple and easy way to do this that requires no drilling, clue, etc. What are your thoughts on this? If you think it is a good idea or at minimum can't cause any issues, I will try it and post back with pics, etc. Let me know when you can...

Still waiting for my choke...


----------



## Micky

Yeah, I was gonna plug them up but I ran the wires for my choke thru one of them. 
I don't see a real need, but certainly to clean up the build it would look better.

I got an email back from Chad at Triode about a replacement OT for the new DSL that would add a 4-ohm output. Gonna measure things up for that next time I have the chassis out...


----------



## JEB

OK, you SOBs got me all excited and I've put in my order for a Classictone choke and an assortment of pre-amp and power tubes. Also put in an order for a Celestion Gold speaker...it was a shootout between this and the Creamback. (Not that the 70/80 sounded bad after it broke in) I may have made a poor choice, but I couldn't take the curiosity any longer of how the Gold would sound in the 40C.

Now I've got to learn how to bias one of these things...


----------



## Micky

Check the beginning of this thread, photos illustrate exactly where to look for bias points.


----------



## MarshallDog

Micky, I was looking at the underside of the PC board the other day and noticed that the PC board has the tube locations labeled on it, no big surprise there. However, what I noticed is that the V1 position is actually the tube closest to the OT (no rubber grommet)...V2...V3 and then V4 is the one closet to the PT (with rubber grommet). Which follows the typical Marshall flow path positioning V1 close to the input jack and V4 to flow right into the power tubes. I might be missing something here but I thought I read earlier in this thread that these pre-amp tube positions where labeled in reverse, with V1 being the one with the rubber grommet which makes sense for the V1 to have the vibration dampener on it BUT it does not coincide with the labeling on the PC board??? Not sure but wanted to see if you could double check these when you get the chance?

Thanks...


----------



## MarshallDog

JEB said:


> OK, you SOBs got me all excited and I've put in my order for a Classictone choke and an assortment of pre-amp and power tubes. Also put in an order for a Celestion Gold speaker...it was a shootout between this and the Creamback. (Not that the 70/80 sounded bad after it broke in) I may have made a poor choice, but I couldn't take the curiosity any longer of how the Gold would sound in the 40C.
> 
> Now I've got to learn how to bias one of these things...



Ordered mine last Wednesday but it isn't shipping until tomorrow because they were on back order...can't wait to get it and get it installed.!!


----------



## Micky

MarshallDog said:


> Micky, I was looking at the underside of the PC board the other day and noticed that the PC board has the tube locations labeled on it, no big surprise there. However, what I noticed is that the V1 position is actually the tube closest to the OT (no rubber grommet)...V2...V3 and then V4 is the one closet to the PT (with rubber grommet). Which follows the typical Marshall flow path positioning V1 close to the input jack and V4 to flow right into the power tubes. I might be missing something here but I thought I read earlier in this thread that these pre-amp tube positions where labeled in reverse, with V1 being the one with the rubber grommet which makes sense for the V1 to have the vibration dampener on it BUT it does not coincide with the labeling on the PC board??? Not sure but wanted to see if you could double check these when you get the chance?
> 
> Thanks...



Looking at the photos I have taken, yes, V1 is closest to the OT. On the underside, it is clearly labeled, and the closest one to the edge of the PC board. Mine DOES have a rubber grommet on it, and all appears to be normal, and labeled properly.

I don't know what you were reading, but the preamp tubes are labeled correctly. In other amps I have seen that the V1 position is the one farthest away from the power tubes, and in many amps this is the case. But with the 40c and the 100h the power tubes are parallel with the preamp tubes, V1 is closest to the OT and V4 is closest to the PT.

I can verify this next time I have the chassis out, but that won't be soon. The beast sounds way too good to mess with, and I have a Haze 15 head that is dying for some mods. Problem is, that one sounds soo good I really don't wanna mess with it either...


----------



## MarshallDog

Micky said:


> Looking at the photos I have taken, yes, V1 is closest to the OT. On the underside, it is clearly labeled, and the closest one to the edge of the PC board. Mine DOES have a rubber grommet on it, and all appears to be normal, and labeled properly.
> 
> I don't know what you were reading, but the preamp tubes are labeled correctly. In other amps I have seen that the V1 position is the one farthest away from the power tubes, and in many amps this is the case. But with the 40c and the 100h the power tubes are parallel with the preamp tubes, V1 is closest to the OT and V4 is closest to the PT.
> 
> I can verify this next time I have the chassis out, but that won't be soon. The beast sounds way too good to mess with, and I have a Haze 15 head that is dying for some mods. Problem is, that one sounds soo good I really don't wanna mess with it either...



Micky, I think I see the issue here...they put the rubber grommet on V4 (PI) on mine NOT V1 which is interesting seeing as V1 is typically the most sensitive and is the one that normally has the tube shield over it, very interesting. 

What I meant by the tube layout is that it seems most of the newer Marshalls I have had, (HAZE 40C, DSL 40C and the JVM 410H) V1 is closest to the input jack, the PI is close to the power tubes and then the OT. Meaning the signal has a "U" type of signal path. It's just my simple way of imaging the signal flow path is a simple way.


----------



## Micky

Here is a photo of my stock DSL40c:






You can see V1 is still closest to the input jack. The power switches are closest to the PT.


----------



## jgnelson

Hi Micky, a quick question, if I follow the change with the C19 will it really soften the tone on this DSL40C? I just bought 2 months back and it just kills me with the bite on the tone it has.

Do the mods really make a difference?

I'm an old player as you have stated.

help

Gary..


----------



## Micky

The C19 mod only works on the Ultra channel in OD mode. It has very minimal effect on the OD1 mode and really smooths out the OD2 tone.

Another really neat control is the Presence, dialing that back will tame a lot of treble as well. (still figuring this out as well as the Resonance control)

If you are comfortable working inside the chassis the C19 mod is easy to do and easily reversible. Moderate soldering skills are involved if you want to REPLACE the ceramic cap. Some have replaced the 470p cap with a .068p cap.

Functionally, this allows you to turn up the gain on the Ultra channel and keep the EQ somewhat similar between Classic and Ultra channels. Before the mod, the Ultra channel was waaaay too gainy or fizzy to me. It seemed to lose definition because it was so loaded with treble.

Please remember these mods are not endorsed by Marshall, performing them may void your warranty, and NONE of us here are liable for anything anyone else might do to their gear. Proceed at your own risk. Working inside tube amplifiers is dangerous. High voltages are present. Please take appropriate precautions.


----------



## Micky

MarshallDog said:


> Micky, I think I see the issue here...they put the rubber grommet on V4 (PI) on mine NOT V1 which is interesting seeing as V1 is typically the most sensitive and is the one that normally has the tube shield over it, very interesting.



Didn't you have a problem with your footswitch wiring?
Sounds like your amp has been misused...
Glad you are on top of this stuff!

You shall be rewarded with excellent tone...


----------



## Steve Naples

Does most of this info in this thread apply to the new DSL100H also?


----------



## Micky

Yes, most of this applies.

The new 100h uses the same chassis, same circuit board, same switches as well as most other components.

Notable differences are the PT, OT and 2 more tubes and sockets (as well as related wiring & components).

It is incredibly important to get matched pairs of tubes for the 100h, as the bias is set for a pair of tubes instead of individual tubes. A matched quad is ideal, but sometimes not available.


----------



## Steve Naples

Ok good. I thought so.
That only applies to the Power tubes right? The Preamp tubes are singles. I didn't realize they were paired but should have figured that especially being a Darlington amp, if that is what they still use.

Thanks


----------



## Micky

Yes preamp tubes are singles.
As a matter of fact, I have 4 different preamp tubes in my DSL40c.
The ones I installed are outlined earlier in this thread.

Here is the permalink:
http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...l-dsl40c-information-thread-6.html#post941017


----------



## Steve Naples

Ok, cool, I thought those were a pick what sounds best in each slot variety. 

Thanks,
Steve


----------



## MarshallDog

Micky said:


> Didn't you have a problem with your footswitch wiring?
> Sounds like your amp has been misused...
> Glad you are on top of this stuff!
> 
> You shall be rewarded with excellent tone...



Yes I did and now the grommet??? Must have been the high QC standards they have in Vietnam or the Assembler was stoned?? Anyway, the rest of the amp looks fine, I always like to pull new amps apart and inspect the components, soldering joints, wire runs etc just to make sure...my choke should be here tomorrow, can't wait to get her installed!


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Hey Micky etc - I changed up the tubes in my new DSL40C and had issues with that rubber grommet - it came out attached to V1 tube, and I cannot line up the socket properly at all with the grommet on. How does one do it, and could I just leave it off? It was very tight on the tube dunno how you'd push a tube through it and still line it up. Also, C19 mod sounds like a good thing to do, I noticed OD1 has a lack of balls that OD2 has, just loses punch so I have been using OD2. Gain on 4 or 5 for lead stuff, I like the amount of gain I just don't like the shrill treble. Does the C19 mod greatly change the gain structure as well? Thanks for any help!


----------



## Micky

Push the grommet on after the tube is in the socket. Push it tight down to the chassis.
The grommet does not install in the hole.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

OK thanks. My grommet has a slot cut in it and it was installed in the hole, I have it tight to the chassis already. Any opinion as to the gain difference with mod? I think I'll just do it!!


----------



## Micky

Jethro Rocker said:


> Hey Micky etc - I changed up the tubes in my new DSL40C and had issues with that rubber grommet - it came out attached to V1 tube, and I cannot line up the socket properly at all with the grommet on. How does one do it, and could I just leave it off? It was very tight on the tube dunno how you'd push a tube through it and still line it up. Also, C19 mod sounds like a good thing to do, I noticed OD1 has a lack of balls that OD2 has, just loses punch so I have been using OD2. Gain on 4 or 5 for lead stuff, I like the amount of gain I just don't like the shrill treble. Does the C19 mod greatly change the gain structure as well? Thanks for any help!



No, it doesn't modify the gain stages per se, it is more like a 'bass filter' attached to the Ultra channel gain control. Removing or changing the cap allows the full frequency response to shine thru, which greatly smooths out the EQ settings making them closer to the Classic channel.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Sweet!!! I like the crunch/classic EQ sound, just not crunchy enough for me for all stuff so OD2 comes in. Thy will be done, thanks, man!


----------



## MarshallDog

Jethro Rocker said:


> Hey Micky etc - I changed up the tubes in my new DSL40C and had issues with that rubber grommet - it came out attached to V1 tube, and I cannot line up the socket properly at all with the grommet on. How does one do it, and could I just leave it off? It was very tight on the tube dunno how you'd push a tube through it and still line it up. Also, C19 mod sounds like a good thing to do, I noticed OD1 has a lack of balls that OD2 has, just loses punch so I have been using OD2. Gain on 4 or 5 for lead stuff, I like the amount of gain I just don't like the shrill treble. Does the C19 mod greatly change the gain structure as well? Thanks for any help!



Sounds gross but just put a little "spit" on the inside of the grommet and it will slide right on...


----------



## guitarman3001

Micky said:


> No, it doesn't modify the gain stages per se, it is more like a 'bass filter' attached to the Ultra channel gain control. Removing or changing the cap allows the full frequency response to shine thru, which greatly smooths out the EQ settings making them closer to the Classic channel.





I guess I'm still a little confused as to what exactly the C19 cap does. In its stock configuration does it boost the highs or does it cut the lows?

And then does the C19 mod (removing c19) reduce the highs or does it add lows?


----------



## Micky

Looking at the circuit, it is pretty much a standard R/C filter. The capacitance is fixed, and the gain control is the resistance. Depending on the gain setting depends on the amount of bass that is cut. (not necessarily a 'cut' in this case, more of a 'shift' in the size of the window of frequencies that are passed...)

All I can say is try it. It is easily reversible if you don't like it.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

MMMMmm...spittle on amp valves... (Homer drooling) Will try, thx. I figured KY might be too much..


----------



## jgnelson

Hi Micky, maybe I jumped the gun on the C19 mod, but I have a DSL40c brand new I bought in late September this year 2013, it was brand new in the box I was there at Guitar center when it came in. This amp has to much bite on the sound so I was reading the forum here so I thought I would take a chance, I just cut the C19 wire and pushed it up a bit as stated in the forum. now when I go to the second channel there is a throbbing sound coming from the speaker, the first channel is fine. my question is was there another step I missed after cutting the C19?
and by the way I could not tell any difference in the sound.

Gary..


----------



## Micky

Sounds like you may have disturbed or damaged something else in the process.
Here is a photo of the unsoldered C19:





Hopefully you unsoldered the correct capacitor.
If you can, resolder the cap back in and see if it is OK.

I have a feeling something else is wrong and you may need to take it to a tech if you are uncomfortable working on it yourself.


----------



## MarshallDog

Jethro Rocker said:


> MMMMmm...spittle on amp valves... (Homer drooling) Will try, thx. I figured KY might be too much..



It works even better when my wife applies it to the tube hee, hee...


----------



## Jethro Rocker

...causing "premature" failure of the tube... I did it!!! Clipped the C19 cap, taking extra care not to bang C20 or PCB, I didn't trust my rather un-pointy soldering iron so clipped it, lotsa lead on that cap in this case. Love it! Sounds like Classic channel, even OD1 is now useable and not thin. Warranty, well, I already changed out the 70/80 for my V30 so there you go! Awesome, thanks to the electronic dudes who figured this out, makes me wonder why the design team would do it in the first place. Cheers!


----------



## Micky

I am curious to see how Nelson makes out...


----------



## JEB

I've had a celestion gold in my amp for a couple of days now and have had a little bit of time to try it out. It certainly sounds different than the 70/80...as for better or worse, that's very subjective. I've actually grown to like the 70/80 as it broke in...very lively sounding to me. The gold started out pretty stiff and kind of bland but is starting to come alive a bit now. It is very smooth in the amp...not harsh at all (but I have done the c19 mod). I'm no musician, but it sounds darker and smoother than the 70/80 to me. I notice that I need to dial up the treble and tone a bit compared to the 70/80. Seems to be more articulate/note definition maybe? It'll be interesting as the speaker breaks in better. Seems like I notice a touch more background hiss/crackle (still very quiet) at high gain with the gold...maybe installing the choke will cut some of that out?


----------



## Micky

It might. I noticed better bass after I installed the choke.

I really like the 70/80 in my '77 Princeton Reverb. I played it tonite, and it was oh so sweet! I think it is a perfect match for that amp.


----------



## MarshallDog

I had a great day yesterday, my choke and new JJ's showed up and I got everything installed including plugging the extra power tube holes. Based on someones elses reco, I tried the JJ's and I must say, they really seem to sound awesome in this amp, tames the highs, base is nice and tight (some of this could be due to the choke) and just sounds real classic Marshall. This little amp sounds much better that the Orange Rockerverb 50 MK II 1X12 amp that I had and it costs more than twice what this one did.

My mods thus far are:
- ClassicTone 3H Choke
- Removed C19
- Celestion G12M-65 Creamback
- All JJ tubes
- Tube rings

I think I am done with mods for now and will just enjoy this badboy. Here are a few pics...


----------



## Rocktane

Nice work, it looks great!


----------



## MarshallDog

Rocktane said:


> Nice work, it looks great!



Thanks...


----------



## Pumpkin88

Just out of curiosity what are the possible tube ranges for this amp? For example would a 6550 or KT88 be too large without significant modification?


----------



## Micky

Are you speaking of physical size? Or about electrical compatibility?

Physically, the tubes you mention will fit. Even the coke-bottle 6550's.

Remember, you are not limited in height like the head version, and the tube sockets are chassis mounted, not on the pc board so there is no diameter restrictions like the older DSL's.


----------



## JEB

Micky, is it necessary to re-bias the amp after adding a choke?


----------



## MarshallDog

JEB said:


> Micky, is it necessary to re-bias the amp after adding a choke?



I did just to make sure...


----------



## MarshallDog

Micky, you mentioned C4 only affects Clean and Classic Correct? It does don't affect the other channels correct? I am very. Ruinous seeing as removing C19 made such a great improvement. I am just curious and you know what happens when one gets curious??!!


----------



## JEB

Was the adjustment still pretty close? And how do you like that creamback? A celestion rep recommended the creamback to me for this amp.


----------



## MarshallDog

JEB said:


> Was the adjustment still pretty close? And how do you like that creamback? A celestion rep recommended the creamback to me for this amp.[/
> 
> I didn't compare the before and after bias because while I was in there I changed tubes from Mullards to JJs. I will say Celestion hit the ball completely out of the park with the Creamback series. IMO, the amp sounds killer old school Marshall rock with it, that is if that is what you like. They are well worth every cent.


----------



## solarburn

MarshallDog said:


> JEB said:
> 
> 
> 
> Was the adjustment still pretty close? And how do you like that creamback? A celestion rep recommended the creamback to me for this amp.[/
> 
> I didn't compare the before and after bias because while I was in there I changed tubes from Mullards to JJs. I will say Celestion hit the ball completely out of the park with the Creamback series. IMO, the amp sounds killer old school Marshall rock with it, that is if that is what you like. They are well worth every cent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Think I said way back I'd put a CB in mine if I got anew DSL 40c. Old school Marshall is primo to me. Good damn choice!
Click to expand...


----------



## Micky

JEB said:


> Micky, is it necessary to re-bias the amp after adding a choke?



No, not necessary. But seeing how you have the chassis out, why not?
It is always the last thing I check before I put things back together.


----------



## Micky

MarshallDog said:


> Micky, you mentioned C4 only affects Clean and Classic Correct? It does don't affect the other channels correct? I am very. Ruinous seeing as removing C19 made such a great improvement. I am just curious and you know what happens when one gets curious??!!



I don't remember saying anything about C4... But then again I am an old fart and I suffer from CRS. 

Away for the weekend and I don't have a computer just the iPad. I would look at the schematic if I could, but C19 did everything for me. No further adjustments are necessary. Now if I could just figure out the Presence and Resonance controls...


----------



## JEB

OK, got the choke in and put in the 3 position switch for C19 so it now has 470pf, 100pf silver mica and open positions. I still don't care for the 470 sound, but I guess I have it if I ever want it.

The mV readings before installing the choke were ~40.2 mV from the factory. I adjusted it down to ~38.2 mV before installing the choke. After installation, the bias read ~35 mV and I adjusted it back to ~38.2 mV.

The choke seems to smooth out the higher gain setting...hard for me to explain...the amp now seems to makes fewer harsh unwanted sounds cause I know my playing hasn't improved... or maybe my hearing is going lol. Maybe a bit lower background noise? I'll have to record it to compare with the previous sound to really tell and make sure it's not just my imagination.

I like it. The celestion gold is breaking in now and sounds very 70ish. It nails that muted/muffled roar of AC/DC sound. Can even get some Stones sound out of this. All evening I've been playing with different settings and various old bands would spring to mind. I butchered a little Billy Idol and good lord, I even played a little Heat of the Moment for the wife lol. Still might get a creamback and put the gold in a cab. Curiosity will probably get the better of me.

Anyway, thanks to you guys for all of the excellent information on this board. This has been a pretty fun project.


----------



## Pumpkin88

Micky said:


> Are you speaking of physical size? Or about electrical compatibility?
> 
> Physically, the tubes you mention will fit. Even the coke-bottle 6550's.
> 
> Remember, you are not limited in height like the head version, and the tube sockets are chassis mounted, not on the pc board so there is no diameter restrictions like the older DSL's.



Electrically speaking what else would need to be replaced to run those tubes reliably?


----------



## MarshallDog

Pumpkin88 said:


> Electrically speaking what else would need to be replaced to run those tubes reliably?



All I can mention is for the 6550's you will most likely have to change the fixed bias resistance to a lower value by paralleling another resistor onto the existing one to allow for enough bias current. I had to do this on my 83 JCM 800 and 80 JMP. I can't recall the resistance value added though. It is easy to do. Maybe someone else may be able to mention the value.


----------



## Alton

The WGS ET65 in my amp has now broken in and it's sounding real good. Mellows the treble response but cuts it short on the lower end of the treble range where there seems to be a bit of an energy focus. It also seems to cut the treble off of my neck pickups which I am NOT pleased with since I use my neck pickups a lot for the richer and warmer tones.

Bottom end is tight and "round". Big without being floppy/muddy.

A Celestion creamback or heritage 65 may be a step up as far as extending the lower range of the treble and dissolving that treble focal point to smooth out the high end.

I have an Emi Swamp Thang that's broken in coming out of a 2x12 I have so I'll give that a quick tryout next. Think I'll try a V30 too.


----------



## bridge500t

bridge500t said:


> OK, so I have had my DSL40C for about 8 months now and have always been happy with it. Love the sound with no mods what so ever. I've been reading how people have changed the speaker and said it was an improvement but never really thought about doing it for the most part. So 2 days ago curiosity finally got the best of me and I pulled out an Eminence Man-o-war that I had in a 2x12 cab sitting in one of my closets and threw it in there just to check it out. WOW!!!!!!!!!! Like I said, I was really happy with the amp as is but man does that speaker sound great in it. It sounds so smooth now, much deeper, the cleans still sound good, and it just rocks on the lead channel. I do have to say though since the speaker is a higher watt than the stock at half power it does sound a little thinner now. But put it at full power and it just screams!!! So if you are thinking of a new speaker, definitely worth a thought. I wish i had a way of posting a sound clip but all I have is my camera mic on my computer and it just clips out.




So I got to jam with the amp at some higher volume practice levels this weekend with a drummer, another guitarist, and bass player. We got pretty loud and both myself and the other guitarist noticed that at higher volumes the speaker was flubbing out when hitting certain lower notes. Would this be possible since the Manowar is 120 watts and the amp is only 40 watt and maybe does not have enough power to push the speaker properly? I used the Manowars with a 120 watt Bugera 333XL before at really high volumes and never had that problem. The speaker is also 8ohms and I did switch to one of the 8ohm outputs, don't know if that could be the issue. Would getting a 16 ohm make a difference? Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated since I am not very knowledgeable on these things with amps and am trying to learn.


----------



## Micky

MarshallDog said:


> All I can mention is for the 6550's you will most likely have to change the fixed bias resistance to a lower value by paralleling another resistor onto the existing one to allow for enough bias current. I had to do this on my 83 JVM 800 and 80 JMP. I can't recall the resistance value added thought. It is easy to do. Maybe someone else may be able to mention the value.



I also am not gonna go there, it would be best for your tech to do this mod should you need it. I can't see anyone really NEEDING to run 6550's, unless there is some sort of EL34 shortage.

Certainly for the sake of experimentation, and if you knew what was involved, then go ahead, but this is a subject that many have discussed here at this site, I am not about to rehash it here in this thread, as it is better left to the threads that discuss it directly. Do a search. (Google search might be more complete...)


----------



## jgnelson

Micky said:


> Sounds like you may have disturbed or damaged something else in the process.
> Here is a photo of the unsoldered C19:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hopefully you unsoldered the correct capacitor.
> If you can, resolder the cap back in and see if it is OK.
> 
> I have a feeling something else is wrong and you may need to take it to a tech if you are uncomfortable working on it yourself.


 

sorry for not getting back right away. if its going to happen it will to me 

first evidently when I was testing the amp head before re-installing it I sat it upright on the cabinet with tubes upright but something must have been touching underneath, anyway I sat it on its end and the noise went away. 
my luck keep going, when I took the amp out of the cabinet the nuts that are pressed into the metal were not in place, only one side was in place. so it took me a few days and some superglue to get the round nuts to hold back in place, but the glue held so they are back like new again.

its my fault due to the fact I was so focused on the sound I should have read more clearing the post here stating the C19 only affects the OD2 Ultra, which I do use, so I jumped the gun on that, I am a lead guitar player, but I don't play metal music, more in the Eric Clapton vain, but I left the C19 cut since it didn't matter to me.
I put the amp all back together and works great. Problem I have is it still has that bite on the OD1 Ultra which I use for leads. I started thinking maybe I'm to old and cant remember what my JCM800 twin 12 combo sounded like so I went back to some of my old tapes and listened and yep the JCM800 was my baby and had my sound I still use the same guitar, I would trade and add money to anyone if they wanted to trade for this DSL40c for another JCM800 combo 
anyway Micky I thank you, and I guess I just have to suck it up and use this amp the way it is.

thank you for your assistance!

Gary...


----------



## Micky

Keep fiddling with it, I have found some strange settings (to me).
For example - I love the Classic channel crunch mode. I use it for almost everything, and I just adjust the Volume to suit the level I need. More gain for Def Leppard, less gain for Aerosmith and Skynyrd and so on,I think you get what I am doing.

But for cleans, I need to run the Volume rather high, and adjust the gain for the volume I need, kinda just the opposite of what I would have thought I needed to do.

One day I was re-learning some Rush songs, and although I am not a lead player, I have been known to bend a string now and then. I just couldn't get the right tone out of the Ultra channel ODI mode. I tried the Presence and Resonance (I still don't quite understand what they seemingly adjust...) as well as several EQ settings, but when I tried ODII mode, lo and behold! There it was!

All I am saying is don't poo-poo the ODII quite so quickly, I think I like ODII with the gain around 2-3 better than any setting I can dial in with ODI. But that is just me.

I am still fiddling with things, and I seemingly discover something new every time I sit down with this amp. I find 20W mode breaks up much quicker with the Classic channel, but then again I tend to push that channel quite a bit as of late.

What was that commercial? 'Try it, you'll like it!'


----------



## jgnelson

Micky said:


> Keep fiddling with it, I have found some strange settings (to me).
> For example - I love the Classic channel crunch mode. I use it for almost everything, and I just adjust the Volume to suit the level I need. More gain for Def Leppard, less gain for Aerosmith and Skynyrd and so on,I think you get what I am doing.
> 
> But for cleans, I need to run the Volume rather high, and adjust the gain for the volume I need, kinda just the opposite of what I would have thought I needed to do.
> 
> One day I was re-learning some Rush songs, and although I am not a lead player, I have been known to bend a string now and then. I just couldn't get the right tone out of the Ultra channel ODI mode. I tried the Presence and Resonance (I still don't quite understand what they seemingly adjust...) as well as several EQ settings, but when I tried ODII mode, lo and behold! There it was!
> 
> All I am saying is don't poo-poo the ODII quite so quickly, I think I like ODII with the gain around 2-3 better than any setting I can dial in with ODI. But that is just me.
> 
> I am still fiddling with things, and I seemingly discover something new every time I sit down with this amp. I find 20W mode breaks up much quicker with the Classic channel, but then again I tend to push that channel quite a bit as of late.
> 
> What was that commercial? 'Try it, you'll like it!'


 

Micky, I remember reading one of your post a few days maybe weeks ago I forgot what date it was and you said you tried the C19 cut and didn't think it was worth it, then the next day you listened to it again and did notice the change, well guess what! I did the same thing, we had band practice last night and I noticed when I went to the second channel OD1 it was very smooth somewhat like my old Marshall! wow I could believe it. so what do I do? this morning I said I need to know for sure so I took this DSL40c back apart again, I soldered the C19 back in, and tried playing it! man that awful screech tone bite was back, I could not believe it! so I yanked it back out cut the damn C19 and to hell with it, tried it again and that smooth Marshall sound was back!

I know I put myself through hoops that weren't needed, nut I had to know for sure, and it is for sure with me, that C19 makes a big damn difference to an OLD lead guitar player like myself!

now, do I try the different speaker? God only knows!!!!!!

Thanks Micky...

Gary Nelson...


----------



## Micky

I think it was the choke installation I wasn't sure about.
The bright cap mod was a definite no-brainer for me, I am glad you took some time and played it a bit more before passing final judgement.

I know for me, I play so shitty that it is difficult for me to hear the intricate little differences, but in general tone, I can tell in an instant. This is why I suggest to others to not be so quick to judge a very subjective type of situation, give it time to see exactly what is going on.

Anyway I am glad things are working out. It bothers me a bit to see others have difficulties, especially on recommendations I have made! But for you to post favorable results restores my faith in my advice. I just hope you can go on and post more of your experiences with this amp here so that others can benefit from the collective knowledge.


----------



## Far Rider

Micky said:


> Keep fiddling with it, I have found some strange settings (to me).
> For example - I love the Classic channel crunch mode. I use it for almost everything, and I just adjust the Volume to suit the level I need. More gain for Def Leppard, less gain for Aerosmith and Skynyrd and so on,I think you get what I am doing.
> 
> But for cleans, I need to run the Volume rather high, and adjust the gain for the volume I need, kinda just the opposite of what I would have thought I needed to do.
> 
> One day I was re-learning some Rush songs, and although I am not a lead player, I have been known to bend a string now and then. I just couldn't get the right tone out of the Ultra channel ODI mode. I tried the Presence and Resonance (I still don't quite understand what they seemingly adjust...) as well as several EQ settings, but when I tried ODII mode, lo and behold! There it was!
> 
> All I am saying is don't poo-poo the ODII quite so quickly, I think I like ODII with the gain around 2-3 better than any setting I can dial in with ODI. But that is just me.
> 
> I am still fiddling with things, and I seemingly discover something new every time I sit down with this amp. I find 20W mode breaks up much quicker with the Classic channel, but then again I tend to push that channel quite a bit as of late.
> 
> *What was that commercial? 'Try it, you'll like it!*'



Alka Seltzer. Damn, you are old.


----------



## Steve Naples

Far Rider said:


> Alka Seltzer. Damn, you are old.



Seems to be a lot of us old farts around here...


----------



## Micky

Far Rider said:


> Alka Seltzer. Damn, you are old.



Old? Age is a relative expression. I prefer to think of myself as seasoned...


----------



## Steve Naples

Lol, seasoned sounds like a steak....


----------



## Steve Naples

My DSL100H should be here tomorrow, I will be playing through a G12K-100 for now, until I can get a cab.
I found a local B52 ST212S cab for $150 and a Marshall 1960A for $300, don't know how I would get the 1960A up the stairs.... big heavy sucker.


----------



## jbull

Main problem I'm having with the amp is that

it gets muddy playing lower strings (e.g. Train of Consq - megadeth) on Lead 2 with Gain above 7+ especially on my Jackson KV with mustaine active PU, and 10~52.

LesPaul with 57 PU is okay but still is bit muddy playing lower spectrum..again with high gain.

But my telecaster (single coils) sounds pretty good any channel regardless, every frets.

Wonder how other's 40C might do on high gain setting?


----------



## jbull

I think my AVT 20 Sounds better with Jackson on harder stuff.


----------



## Micky

jbull - Any mods on the amp yet?


----------



## jbull

No, I wouldn't really want to either for warranty coverage..

But I maybe in market for a new speaker like most of you do, 
Just don't know which one to get haha.


----------



## Micky

The C19 mod addresses the muddiness one might hear on ODII with the gain turned up.
I can understand not wanting to mod the amp for warranty purposes. 

Another thing you can try is to connect the amp to a closed-back cabinet, as well as play around a bit with the resonance control. Also the Tone Shift (deep/bright) switch may have some affect on the muddiness you hear, but I think it is mostly due to the C19 bright cap and the open-back design onf the combo using a 70/80 speaker.

That particular speaker is not known for its bass response, and until it is 'broken-in' it may be a bit tighter sounding.

I generally use the Tone Shift button when I switch between my LP and Strat. Some people refer to it as the 'mid scoop' switch.


----------



## jgnelson

Micky said:


> I think it was the choke installation I wasn't sure about.
> The bright cap mod was a definite no-brainer for me, I am glad you took some time and played it a bit more before passing final judgement.
> 
> I know for me, I play so shitty that it is difficult for me to hear the intricate little differences, but in general tone, I can tell in an instant. This is why I suggest to others to not be so quick to judge a very subjective type of situation, give it time to see exactly what is going on.
> 
> Anyway I am glad things are working out. It bothers me a bit to see others have difficulties, especially on recommendations I have made! But for you to post favorable results restores my faith in my advice. I just hope you can go on and post more of your experiences with this amp here so that others can benefit from the collective knowledge.


 

One thing I must add, if anyone does perform the C19 MOD, take your time when testing the sound, at first I did not so that caused me to perform tasks I didn't need to do. Make the MOD, set the amp back in the case and test the sound with your guitar, if you cannot hear a difference in the second channel then there is something wrong with your ears 

I rushed through my test the first time and when I came back the next day I tried it again and it is wonderful, if this is the sound your looking for, then I would give it a try. I played a JCM800 100w Combo for years, I play lead so my leads were very smooth with that big Marshall sound, so that is what I expected out of this DSL40c, I did not get it. The C19 MOD brings me as close as I am going to get with that sound in this amp.

So I will add, the information I have received on this forum and from you "Micky" helped me out greatly, at one point I was going to sell this amp and but another big Marshall again, so you saved me form that.

thanks again...

I am still thinking about the speaker 

Gary ..


----------



## Steve Naples

FEDEX just delivered my DSL100H, I am going to play that for a while before any mods, so I can see what I have got. I think the choke is still a no brainer, because Marshall would probably use one except for the cost of installation and the part.

Steve


----------



## Micky

Gary - Glad I could help.
You scared me for a bit, especially when you had a few difficulties, but I am glad it is working out.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Micky I also like OD2 for leads gain around 4 - 5. At lower volumes the resonance adds more bass but not in a 'in your face' up front bass, more of a subwoofer almost type of bass. I find if it doesn't have enough chunkified thud turn the resonance up a bit. Will hafta give it a good test since C19 vasectomy, maybe tomorrow. Really like it so far!


----------



## Coronado

I've really enjoyed the DSL40, and I think I'm ready to try a new speaker. i was thinking the Ce Vintage 30. Any other favorites that sound good with the DSL40? Where do you guys like to buy your speakers? I'm not tech savvy enough to do this myself, so I will take it to a tech (also going to ask him to check the bias and perhaps put in some different tubes).

Thanks for the advice!


----------



## Micky

I like to get my stuff at Musicians Friend, as I can usually get free shipping.
(on speakers, especially heavy ones, this is nice!)


----------



## JEB

Some decent places are American Music Supply, ZZounds, Musicians Friend, Guitar Center and Sweetwater. I happened to go with Sweetwater for the Celestion Gold because they had it in stock and free delivery. Really just depends on who has what in stock.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Coronado said:


> I've really enjoyed the DSL40, and I think I'm ready to try a new speaker. i was thinking the Ce Vintage 30. Any other favorites that sound good with the DSL40? Where do you guys like to buy your speakers? I'm not tech savvy enough to do this myself, so I will take it to a tech (also going to ask him to check the bias and perhaps put in some different tubes).
> 
> Thanks for the advice!


Real easy to do yourself, undo the screws in the back, pull 2 clips off speaker and unscrew speaker. Do reverse to put in. I loaded a V 30 in mine and I like it!


----------



## JEB

I've got a question on tubes for the 40C. I know nothing about tubes, so I figured I'd better ask before I do something dumb.

My delivery of the following tubes just arrived: two EL34 =C='s, a TAD 7025 WA Highgrade, two Tung-Sol 12AX7's, and a JJECC83S.

I plan the following: V1 = TAD, V2 = Tung-Sol, V3 = Tung-Sol, V4 = Leave as is or put in the JJ.

Bias the EL34 =C=s to 38mV.

Is this a good plan, bad plan, poor choice of tubes, pre-amp tubes in the wrong order, etc?


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Try different combos - your combo first, the JJ's in V1, Tung-Sol in V4, try it one tube at a time, it will be a subtle difference but you should be able to tell what YOU like most. Bias sounds right to me.


----------



## MarshallDog

I finally got around to playing with the value of C4. I popped it out and ran jumpers to it so I could play the amp while trying different values. I tried nothing (0.0 pF) at first and it was a bit to much. Took the bite and character away from the amp. I then tried a 47 pF cap and it sounded really nice to me. Still the same overall tonal characteristics but with a touch these upper, upper high end bite/brightness. I then tried a 75 pF cap and it seemed to be too close to the original 100 pF cap to be able to tell a difference. So the cap I settled on is the 47 pF cap, I love it and it allows me to use the treble and presence controls a bit more.

The amp is not dark at all. Playing with LPS's, I still need to reduce the tone on the bridge to about 6 when playing loud and around 7 or 8 when playing low. If I need more bite, I just turn up the tone on the guitar a bit. The neck pup still sounds bright enough to use w/o issue. It is a very subtle change but nice IMO and is a simple and easy mod that can always be changed back if needed...


----------



## Micky

JEB said:


> I've got a question on tubes for the 40C. I know nothing about tubes, so I figured I'd better ask before I do something dumb.
> 
> My delivery of the following tubes just arrived: two EL34 =C='s, a TAD 7025 WA Highgrade, two Tung-Sol 12AX7's, and a JJECC83S.
> 
> I plan the following: V1 = TAD, V2 = Tung-Sol, V3 = Tung-Sol, V4 = Leave as is or put in the JJ.
> 
> Bias the EL34 =C=s to 38mV.
> 
> Is this a good plan, bad plan, poor choice of tubes, pre-amp tubes in the wrong order, etc?



Sounds normal. Let us know if it sounds better or worse.


----------



## guitarman3001

MarshallDog said:


> I finally got around to playing with the value of C4. I popped it out and ran jumpers to it so I could play the amp while trying different values. I tried nothing (0.0 pF) at first and it was a bit to much. Took the bite and character away from the amp. I then tried a 47 pF cap and it sounded really nice to me. Still the same overall tonal characteristics but with a touch these upper, upper high end bite/brightness. I then tried a 75 pF cap and it seemed to be too close to the original 100 pF cap to be able to tell a difference. So the cap I settled on is the 47 pF cap, I love it and it allows me to use the treble and presence controls a bit more.
> 
> The amp is not dark at all. Playing with LPS's, I still need to reduce the tone on the bridge to about 6 when playing loud and around 7 or 8 when playing low. If I need more bite, I just turn up the tone on the guitar a bit. The neck pup still sounds bright enough to use w/o issue. It is a very subtle change but nice IMO and is a simple and easy mod that can always be changed back if needed...



So the lower value caps in C4 made channel 1 less bright? Should a higher value, like 200pF make channel 1 brighter?

Also, has anyone tried a lower gain tube like a 5751 in V1 yet? I'm curious to see how that would affect channel 2. 

My DSL40C looks like it's finally going to get here tomorrow. I guess they got a shipment earlier than expected so I'll have plenty of time to play with it over the long weekend.


----------



## MarshallDog

guitarman3001 said:


> So the lower value caps in C4 made channel 1 less bright? Should a higher value, like 200pF make channel 1 brighter?
> 
> Also, has anyone tried a lower gain tube like a 5751 in V1 yet? I'm curious to see how that would affect channel 2.
> 
> My DSL40C looks like it's finally going to get here tomorrow. I guess they got a shipment earlier than expected so I'll have plenty of time to play with it over the long weekend.



You are correct in a lower cap being less brite and a higher cap being more brite. I did try a 5751 in V1 and it made very little difference that I could tell in all channels. Obviously, turning the gain down made a big difference compared to the 5751 in V1. Congrats on finally getting the amp...


----------



## guitarman3001

I swear to god I am f*cking cursed. DSL40C just came in, plugged it in, fired it up, REVERB DOESN'T WORK!!!!! Seriously, f*ck my life!! And yes, I tried with and without the footswitch. Nothing. Zip. Zilch. No reverb.


----------



## Steve Naples

I thought the same thing with my DSL100H, I still don't think it works, but everyone says that it is very "subtle" . lol


----------



## Coronado

Hey Guys, Happy Thanksgiving! Quick question: My DSL40 is making this odd humm noise, only when I strum or pick the string. Its not very loud, but when you play the clean channel you can hear it better. The sound is like this muffled _bwaaa_ sound. It stops as soon as I release the string. At loud volumes I cant hear it - the quieter the volume and the cleaner the sound, the louder the humm gets.

Any ideas on what this could be? I played the DSL40 last night and I could hear it. Then plugged the JCM800 and not a sound at all (wanted to make sure I wasnt crazy). 

Really appreciate the help. I wanted to check with you guys first and see what you thought before I bring it to the Tech.

Thanks,
Ray


----------



## guitarman3001

Steve Naples said:


> I thought the same thing with my DSL100H, I still don't think it works, but everyone says that it is very "subtle" . lol



No, it's not that it's subtle, it's that it doesn't work, period. I briefly had another DSL40C a while back and it was returned for another problem but the reverb on it worked fine. Yeah, it was subtle but it did work. This one doesn't work at all.


----------



## Coronado

guitarman3001 said:


> I swear to god I am f*cking cursed. DSL40C just came in, plugged it in, fired it up, REVERB DOESN'T WORK!!!!! Seriously, f*ck my life!! And yes, I tried with and without the footswitch. Nothing. Zip. Zilch. No reverb.


 
Come to think of it, when I first got mine, I could not hear the reverb for shit - I'm not even sure if the dang thing works. I use the "Hall of Fame" reverb and put it in the effects loop. I dont know if the reverb doesnt work, _OR_, if it was just so mild (I guess low intensity would be the term?) and I just cant hear it that well. As you mentioned, when I try the footswitch or manual, I dont hear any difference. I honestly think it is just VERY "_subtle_" (I like how you put that Steve ). 

I love the amp, but I guess I have to ask, why would they add a reverb that you can barely hear? Is there some way to boost it?


----------



## Steve Naples

Well, then maybe mine doesn't work either, which is odd, maybe I need to check the connections to the pcb for the reverb.


----------



## guitarman3001

Steve Naples said:


> Well, then maybe mine doesn't work either, which is odd, maybe I need to check the connections to the pcb for the reverb.



If you figure it out, please post what you found. I'm debating whether I want to return it or take it to a local warranty shop and wait however long it takes them to fix it. I'm really not looking forward to boxing up another amp and stuffing it in my car and driving it to the UPS store and carting it a block from the parking lot to the store. I've already done that with 5 other amps over the last couple of months. It's really getting old.


----------



## MarshallDog

Guys, just thought I would chime in here. My DSL40C is about a month old and the reverb on both channels is not subtle at all. I have it set only on 3 and that gives me just enough so I cab barely tell its on. If I crank it up, the effect is over powering. 

Guitarman3001 - If it was me, I would call the place you bought it from and have them send you another one immediately before they sell out and then return this one period...wtf!! With everything you have been through, they should take care of you w/o issue...this is unbelievable!!!!


----------



## Steve Naples

I'll let you know what I find, I just find it odd, that some say it's barely there and others say you can hear it just fine.


----------



## Coronado

MarshallDog said:


> Guys, just thought I would chime in here. My DSL40C is about a month old and the reverb on both channels is not subtle at all. I have it set only on 3 and that gives me just enough so I cab barely tell its on. If I crank it up, the effect is over powering.





MarshallDog said:


> Guitarman3001 - If it was me, I would call the place you bought it from and have them send you another one immediately before they sell out and then return this one period...wtf!! With everything you have been through, they should take care of you w/o issue...this is unbelievable!!!!


 
Wow - So I am going to go ahead and change my post to say that my reverb does not work at all. I cant tell the difference when its on full or at zero. I simply chalked it up to a poor reverb (plus I use a pedal for my reverb, so didnt give it much thought). 

I need to bring my amp in for a few things (fix that strange hum, swap out a V30 speaker, upgrade the tubes, cut C19), so I might as well ask the Tech what is wrong with ithe reverb. I will get back to you guys as soon as I drop it off and talk with the tech.


----------



## Coronado

Coronado said:


> Hey Guys, Happy Thanksgiving! Quick question: My DSL40 is making this odd humm noise, only when I strum or pick the string. Its not very loud, but when you play the clean channel you can hear it better. The sound is like this muffled _bwaaa_ sound. It stops as soon as I release the string. At loud volumes I cant hear it - the quieter the volume and the cleaner the sound, the louder the humm gets.
> 
> Any ideas on what this could be? I played the DSL40 last night and I could hear it. Then plugged the JCM800 and not a sound at all (wanted to make sure I wasnt crazy).
> 
> Really appreciate the help. I wanted to check with you guys first and see what you thought before I bring it to the Tech.
> 
> Thanks,
> Ray


 
So you guys dont have any issues at low volumes on the clean channel? - no low hum when you play?


----------



## guitarman3001

Steve Naples said:


> I'll let you know what I find, I just find it odd, that some say it's barely there and others say you can hear it just fine.



Based on my experiences over the last 3 or 4 months, I don't find that odd. What it tells me is that there is a problem with the reverb circuits on some of these amps. Some work fine, some don't work at all, others may have a defect where the reverb works but it's very weak. 

A lot of the recent amps that are made "overseas" seem to suffer from all kinds of engineering, design, and manufacturing flaws. I really wonder if anyone nowadays makes amps that actually work. At least mass produced lines of amps. H&K, Ampeg, Marshall - in my very recent experience, in general all crap. They sound fine but are full of bugs. 

I think I'm almost at the point where M123 should offer to send me a JVM as a concession/gift/apology.


----------



## Coronado

guitarman3001 said:


> Based on my experiences over the last 3 or 4 months, I don't find that odd. What it tells me is that there is a problem with the reverb circuits on some of these amps. Some work fine, some don't work at all, others may have a defect where the reverb works but it's very weak.
> 
> A lot of the recent amps that are made "overseas" seem to suffer from all kinds of engineering, design, and manufacturing flaws. I really wonder if anyone nowadays makes amps that actually work. At least mass produced lines of amps. H&K, Ampeg, Marshall - in my very recent experience, in general all crap. They sound fine but are full of bugs.
> 
> I think I'm almost at the point where M123 should offer to send me a JVM as a concession/gift/apology.


 
Seems like this may be an issue with DSL's. There is a current thread where someone is having the same problem with his DSL100. Lots of suggestions how to fix it - all WAY over my skill set.


----------



## Steve Naples

I have that issue with the DSL 100H myself. I check took mine apart. Ok, no problem with the daughter board connection. Where is the thread for DSL 100 reverb solutions?


----------



## Coronado

Here you go my good man:

http://www.marshallforum.com/workbench/63151-dsl-100-reverb-stopped-working.html


----------



## Steve Naples

Thanks, I just checked and they have the older one with the spring reverb tank. Oh well, maybe I'll send it back.


----------



## Dizzyg12

I'mnot in love with the on board reverb. I don't use it often, but it's enough when I do, it's just not a good reverb IMO. I might pickup a holy grail reverb at some point and put it in the loop.


----------



## guitarman3001

lol...man...gotta love Asian build quality. So out of frustration, I whacked it on the side like you would an old TV set that's out of whack and suddenly the reverb started working. 

What can you do but laugh.... Now let's test the FX loop and other features. Wish me luck!!!!


----------



## Steve Naples

Glad to hear you got it working, going to have to wait on mine, loaned my cab out.....


----------



## Micky

Gotta check the connections on the reverb board under the chassis...


----------



## Dizzyg12

What kind of pedal setup I everyone run in with their 40c? I have a wah in front and eq and delay in the loop. Wanting to grab a few other effects, maybe chorus and a Better reverb than the on board. Also a noise gate or some sort to kill the hum on the hi gain red channel. 

What else? Fuzz, phase 90, tube screamer? Anyone use them?


----------



## Steve Naples

Micky,
I did that on mine, no issues there, the daughter board is solid on the extender also.
Not sure why I don't seem to get any reverb. It looks like biasing is a whole lot of fun on these.


----------



## Micky

Bias is a breeze. Easiest if your DMM probes have clips on them.


----------



## Steve Naples

I have to check to see if I have a set of leads that have clips, but I found the trim pots, underneath the chassis, so basically have to take it out of the cab and turn it over to bias?


----------



## MarshallDog

guitarman3001 said:


> Based on my experiences over the last 3 or 4 months, I don't find that odd. What it tells me is that there is a problem with the reverb circuits on some of these amps. Some work fine, some don't work at all, others may have a defect where the reverb works but it's very weak.
> 
> A lot of the recent amps that are made "overseas" seem to suffer from all kinds of engineering, design, and manufacturing flaws. I really wonder if anyone nowadays makes amps that actually work. At least mass produced lines of amps. H&K, Ampeg, Marshall - in my very recent experience, in general all crap. They sound fine but are full of bugs.
> 
> I think I'm almost at the point where M123 should offer to send me a JVM as a concession/gift/apology.



Hang in there Bro, yeah it sucks but it will get better. FYI, I owned a JVM 410H for 3 years and it is sold. Spent more time modding it then playing it. IMO, it is to modern, thin,ear piercing, etc and the OD@ Channel is useless unless modded. I was a member of the JVM Forum for years and it seems that most people end up modding this amp. I do think this DSL40C sounds more classic hands down IMO and the JVM was replaced with a 83 JCM 800.

In regards to the reverb circuit, it is just a PCB stacked on top of the main PCB. I used to have a Haze 40C and there was an issue with the reverb circuit so my local amp tech was kind enough to sell me the PCB board at his cost (70.00 bucks) knowing I could change it out myself. However, it took (10) weeks to get it from Marshall. The amp was out of warranty. Let us know how you make out.


----------



## MarshallDog

Dizzyg12 said:


> What kind of pedal setup I everyone run in with their 40c? I have a wah in front and eq and delay in the loop. Wanting to grab a few other effects, maybe chorus and a Better reverb than the on board. Also a noise gate or some sort to kill the hum on the hi gain red channel.
> 
> What else? Fuzz, phase 90, tube screamer? Anyone use them?



Same stuff you mention for me but I really love my FullTone OCD pedal. It has so many options...


----------



## Micky

Steve Naples said:


> I have to check to see if I have a set of leads that have clips, but I found the trim pots, underneath the chassis, so basically have to take it out of the cab and turn it over to bias?



Yes. I find that if you can set the chassis in the top of the combo with the back off or on the bench on a couple 3/4" pieces of wood it is a nice level and stable spot. 

The photos of all this is earlier in this thread, applies to the 100h as well just double the ma values.

Remember the right pot controls the left pin and vice versa.


----------



## Steve Naples

I'll have to see how I can situate it to check on the head.
I have to wait on a cab right now. I don't have anything to load it with right now.


----------



## guitarman3001

Dizzyg12 said:


> What kind of pedal setup I everyone run in with their 40c? I have a wah in front and eq and delay in the loop. Wanting to grab a few other effects, maybe chorus and a Better reverb than the on board. Also a noise gate or some sort to kill the hum on the hi gain red channel.
> 
> What else? Fuzz, phase 90, tube screamer? Anyone use them?




Well, in the hour or so that I've had it and that it has been problem free after I whacked the reverb into shape, I've tried my regular pedalboard which is currently a Mad Professor Deep Blue clone, a TC Spark, an Xotic SL, a TS clone, a comp, and an autowah.

So far what I've got is with the SL Drive on the channel 1 set to crunch mode but with the gain low, I get a very classic plexi sound, which is what the SL is supposed to do. And on Ch1, the lower the gain, the brighter it is so using it that way I can more or less balance the EQ between Ch1 and Ch2. 

I put a Sovtek 5751 in V1 and it sounds a little better than the stock tube and is also lower gain so I can turn up the gain on Ch2 a little higher, which also helps balance the EQ between both channels. 

So far so good. Between the clean channel on crunch mode with the gain set low, the clean channel with the Xotic SL, and then CH2, I have a nice clean tone, a mid gain plexi tone, and a hot rodded JCM800 type of tone. That's basically the three tones I was hoping to get out of this amp. 

Oh, and of course the TS on CH1 for an SRV type of tone. 

I have the TC Spark set to mid boost mode and it works great for leads on Ch2. Both the Spark and the delay are in the FX loop which so far seems to be working just fine. 

Hopefully the reverb doesn't start acting up again.

And I do plan on changing out the speaker. I don't like the 70/80 but I knew that coming into it. I've never liked that speaker.

So, any suggestions? I want to get something from WGS. Something to tame the highs and smooth it out a little bit.


----------



## guitarman3001

I think I've settled on a WGS Veteran 30 for the speaker.

Couple more questions....

Is there a small single button footswitch that will work on this amp to only switch the channels? I have no use for the reverb switch and would like a tiny footswitch like the one from my Blackstar HT5, which of course doesn't work on the Marshall. 

And out of curiosity, I opened it up to take a look at the infamous C19. I have to wonder, how in the world are you guys managing to unsolder that thing? I damn near need a magnifying glass just to see it, much less can I figure out how to get a soldering iron in there without frying the traces on the PCB!!!


----------



## Rocktane

guitarman3001 said:


> Is there a small single button footswitch that will work on this amp to only switch the channels? I have no use for the reverb switch and would like a tiny footswitch like the one from my Blackstar HT5, which of course doesn't work on the Marshall.
> 
> /QUOTE]
> 
> That made me laugh! I tiried to use the HT-5 footswitch with my DSL as well, LOL. No workie.


----------



## dave999z

guitarman3001 said:


> Is there a small single button footswitch that will work on this amp to only switch the channels? I have no use for the reverb switch and would like a tiny footswitch like the one from my Blackstar HT5, which of course doesn't work on the Marshall.



See this thread...

http://www.marshallforum.com/marshall-amps/60024-single-button-footswitch-dsl40c.html


----------



## Axeplyr

guitarman3001 said:


> I think I've settled on a WGS Veteran 30 for the speaker.
> 
> Couple more questions....
> 
> Is there a small single button footswitch that will work on this amp to only switch the channels? I have no use for the reverb switch and would like a tiny footswitch like the one from my Blackstar HT5, which of course doesn't work on the Marshall.
> 
> And out of curiosity, I opened it up to take a look at the infamous C19. I have to wonder, how in the world are you guys managing to unsolder that thing? I damn near need a magnifying glass just to see it, much less can I figure out how to get a soldering iron in there without frying the traces on the PCB!!!



C19 desolders easily right from the top of the board right where you're looking at it. I just grabbed it with a pair of pliars and took a soldering iron right to each lead. Pulled right up. 

I even tried a couple different replacement caps of various values. Settled on 100pf. 

It's really just a 5 minute job after you've disassembled the amp.


----------



## Axeplyr

My reverb recently completely died as well. 

I have brought it to a Marshall authorized repair center for repair. 

Beforehand I took a good look at the reverb daughter board and took a meter to the pins entering the board. The various supply voltages seemed to be present and both pots ramped up level voltage to the dsp... So I'm suspecting the dsp died. 

Should find out soon, and I'll be sure to report back here.


----------



## guitarman3001

Axeplyr said:


> C19 desolders easily right from the top of the board right where you're looking at it. I just grabbed it with a pair of pliars and took a soldering iron right to each lead. Pulled right up.
> 
> I even tried a couple different replacement caps of various values. Settled on 100pf.
> 
> It's really just a 5 minute job after you've disassembled the amp.



Hrmm...well, given that my reverb was wonky right out of the box, I don't think I'll be doing any mods like that which can void my warranty until I'm sure the reverb isn't going to crap out again. So far all I plan on doing is replacing the speaker. I'm pretty sure the stock EQ settings are going to be workable for me given my current setup. 

Like I mentioned, if I set the classic channel to crunch mode and keep the gain low, it's more or less as bright as the Ultra channel with the gain set higher. And then with my SL drive, I basically have a three channel amp. 

Still, I don't see how you guys are unsoldering C19 without burning something else on the board. The thing is tiny. And putting another value cap on there?? lol...forget it. I'd get solder all over the PCB. 

Maybe I have the wrong type of soldering iron? Can you guys recommend one that would work for this type of stuff? Preferably not too expensive and available on Amazon or Ebay?


----------



## rbnum1fan

I LOVE putting the amp on Classic Crunch mode with the gain on 10. I put a MXR Distortion+ in front of it with the Volume all the way up,and the Distortion all the way down and plugging in my Les Paul i totally nail Glenn Tipton's Point of Entry tone. Step on a Boss C3 Chorus and it gets VERY close to the Screaming for Vengeance tone


----------



## guitarman3001

On these particular amps is it safe to run an 8 ohm cab in addition to the built in speaker? Basically plug both into the 8 ohm jacks. It would give me an impedance of 5.3 ohm which is a mismatch but it's not even an entire whole step mismatch, which is something most amps can handle ok. 

Or would I be better off getting an 8 ohm speaker for it and running that in series with the 8 ohm cab off of the 16 ohm jack? I guess that would be the ideal way of doing it but I'm just wondering if the output transformers are robust enough to handle what would essentially be a 2.7 ohm mismatch.


----------



## Micky

It is always best to match the OT to the load.

Mismatch? It might work, but for how long?


----------



## Pasloade74

MarshallDog said:


> Same stuff you mention for me but I really love my FullTone OCD pedal. It has so many options...



Hey MarshallDog, how do you run your OCD in your set up? I have the same gear and I just can't get it to sound good.


----------



## MarshallDog

Pasloade74 said:


> Hey MarshallDog, how do you run your OCD in your set up? I have the same gear and I just can't get it to sound good.



I set mine as follows:

Volume about 2 oclock (pointing at the HP/LP switch)
Tone about 10:30 oclock (pointing at the HP/LP switch)
Drive about 2 oclock

I use the LP setting for more of a Blues sound and the HP for more rock...

Let me know if this works for you.


----------



## guitarman3001

rbnum1fan said:


> I LOVE putting the amp on Classic Crunch mode with the gain on 10. I put a MXR Distortion+ in front of it with the Volume all the way up,and the Distortion all the way down and plugging in my Les Paul i totally nail Glenn Tipton's Point of Entry tone. Step on a Boss C3 Chorus and it gets VERY close to the Screaming for Vengeance tone



I tried that yesterday but with a TS instead of an MXR. Awesome sound. Those settings aren't practical for me for live use though. For live use I can get a very similar tone with the settings I mentioned earlier.

Channel 1 on crunch mode, gain very low, roughly on 2, then use an Xotic SL for the dirt and if I want to goose it, I stack the TS into the Xotic and it's very very close to the tone you are getting with the crunch mode, gain on 10, goosed with an MXR. 

Now that the reverb is working I'm really digging this amp. I currently have it sitting on top of a Marshall 1965a 4x10 cab which makes a perfect Marshall mini stack. I'm using a Weber Z-Matcher to match the impedance. 

Man, I hope I can fit all this stuff in my car for gigs. This little Marshall mini stack will look very cool on stage.


----------



## MarshallDog

guitarman3001 said:


> Hrmm...well, given that my reverb was wonky right out of the box, I don't think I'll be doing any mods like that which can void my warranty until I'm sure the reverb isn't going to crap out again. So far all I plan on doing is replacing the speaker. I'm pretty sure the stock EQ settings are going to be workable for me given my current setup.
> 
> Like I mentioned, if I set the classic channel to crunch mode and keep the gain low, it's more or less as bright as the Ultra channel with the gain set higher. And then with my SL drive, I basically have a three channel amp.
> 
> Still, I don't see how you guys are unsoldering C19 without burning something else on the board. The thing is tiny. And putting another value cap on there?? lol...forget it. I'd get solder all over the PCB.
> 
> Maybe I have the wrong type of soldering iron? Can you guys recommend one that would work for this type of stuff? Preferably not too expensive and available on Amazon or Ebay?



I have two different units both Craftsman. One is a 25 W and one is a 45 W. I use the 25 W for small jobs like soldering small components in place. I like to use the 45 when soldering up large items like cable, wires and sometimes smaller resistors and caps when they are connected to a larger unit which acts as a heat sink drawing the heat to it and not to the actual solder. The higher unit having more balls will heat the solder in situations like this much faster limiting the amount of heat transfer to other areas. I like Craftsman because replacement tips are easy to get.

As for C19, it is easy to remove it w/o taking out the board IF you use a higher wattage iron, touch it to the lead of the cap, give it a few seconds and then using a pair of needle nose pliers, grab the cap on the ceramic area and gently lift the leg out of the eyelet. Try to keep the tip of the iron off of the eyelet as much as possible to avoid lifting it from the PCB. If you need to put a cap back in place, you can do the same procedure in reverse but it is a bit more tricky because you got to allow for any solder left on the other side of the PCB to melt and pushing the leg into the eyelet can cause the trace to lift if all the solder is not melted on the other side and you don't want that to happen (it has happened to me in the past on other amps, not good). My suggestion is that the best bet to re-install a component is to remove the PCB and clean any old solder from the eyelet first using a solder sucker. This takes a bit more time but ensures you won't damage the trace.


----------



## Pumpkin88

Every DSL40C I've heard, including my own has a subtle reverb, this is normal IMO. I have both the classic and ultra reverb set at 10 and it adds just the right amount of depth to the amp. I wouldn't want anymore or less than that and I can certainly tell when its off because the sound isn't as big.


----------



## rbnum1fan

guitarman3001 said:


> I tried that yesterday but with a TS instead of an MXR. Awesome sound. Those settings aren't practical for me for live use though. For live use I can get a very similar tone with the settings I mentioned earlier.
> 
> Channel 1 on crunch mode, gain very low, roughly on 2, then use an Xotic SL for the dirt and if I want to goose it, I stack the TS into the Xotic and it's very very close to the tone you are getting with the crunch mode, gain on 10, goosed with an MXR.
> 
> Now that the reverb is working I'm really digging this amp. I currently have it sitting on top of a Marshall 1965a 4x10 cab which makes a perfect Marshall mini stack. I'm using a Weber Z-Matcher to match the impedance.
> 
> Man, I hope I can fit all this stuff in my car for gigs. This little Marshall mini stack will look very cool on stage.



I have my TS set up in the same configuration,and alternate between it and a MXR Super Baddass for a lead boost on the Classic Crunch channel. next on the gotta get list is an Xotic EP booster and that may take the place of both the TS and the Superbadass for lead boosts. On the Ultra Gain Channel the only effect i use is a MXR Phase 90.


----------



## guitarman3001

Pumpkin88 said:


> Every DSL40C I've heard, including my own has a subtle reverb, this is normal IMO. I have both the classic and ultra reverb set at 10 and it adds just the right amount of depth to the amp. I wouldn't want anymore or less than that and I can certainly tell when its off because the sound isn't as big.


 

Yep, it's definitely subtle. But it's also definitely there. Whoever can't hear a difference with it on or off either has a broken reverb or broken ears. 

Personally I wouldn't mind if it was a little deeper but if I turn it up to 10 that's about where I'd normally set it for regular playing. For surf and ambient type stuff you would want a reverb pedal though. 

I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that whatever was wrong with mine got permanently fixed when I whacked it on the side and doesn't break or come loose again when I transport it to and from gigs. 

Oh, and I decided to get a WGS Liberator instead of the Veteran 30. Based on the sound clips, it sounded a lot thicker to me and that's the type of tone I prefer.


----------



## MarshallDog

Micky said:


> I would swap some preamp tubes first, but you may be on to something noting that it only happens in pentode mode.



I agree with Micky but if it was me I would order up a complete set of tubes just to have them on standby. Also, I have had wired sounding hums in other amps in the past and it always turned out to be a bad pre-amp tube. I changed out the crap stock tubes in the DSL40C as soon as I got it...


----------



## Pasloade74

MarshallDog said:


> I agree with Micky but if it was me I would order up a complete set of tubes just to have them on standby. Also, I have had wired sounding hums in other amps in the past and it always turned out to be a bad pre-amp tube. I changed out the crap stock tubes in the DSL40C as soon as I got it...



Does anyone know what brand the "Marshall" stock tubes are. I was under the impression they are jj's.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

guitarman3001 said:


> Still, I don't see how you guys are unsoldering C19 without burning something else on the board. The thing is tiny. And putting another value cap on there?? lol...forget it. I'd get solder all over the PCB.
> 
> Maybe I have the wrong type of soldering iron? Can you guys recommend one that would work for this type of stuff? Preferably not too expensive and available on Amazon or Ebay?


I wasnt sure myself with my slightly larger iron so I carefully used tin snips and gave it a vasectomy. Worked great!


----------



## Pasloade74

MarshallDog said:


> I set mine as follows:
> 
> Volume about 2 oclock (pointing at the HP/LP switch)
> Tone about 10:30 oclock (pointing at the HP/LP switch)
> Drive about 2 oclock
> 
> I use the LP setting for more of a Blues sound and the HP for more rock...
> 
> Let me know if this works for you.



I like these settings, do you have the amp in crunch or clean mode?


----------



## Dizzyg12

Just ordered a vintage 30 for my amp....and a ts808 for added fun. Merry Christmas to me! From me!


----------



## guitarman3001

hrmm....woke up this morning and the reverb was dead again. Picked up the amp and set it down roughly a couple of times and the reverb started working. I can tell that this is going to be an ongoing intermittent problem.


----------



## guitarman3001

Here's a new one. I was on the Ultra channel and had the gain at about 70%. I started turning up the volume and once I got to about halfway, the amp started making a squealing noise. It was feedback from a tube. It does it even without having a guitar plugged into it. I've narrowed it down to V1. 

I've made sure the little rubber grommet thing is in place properly and the tube is seated tightly. I've also tried different tubes and it still does it. I tried the stock tube, a Mullard, and a Sovtek 5751.

Are these amps just that sensitive in V1 that you can't turn channel 2 up that loud? I recall seeing a Joe Bonamassa demo in which he dimes everything and it doesn't squeal like that. 

Also, even before it starts squealing, if I just tap the amp lightly with my hand or with anything else, every time I tap it it makes a pinging sound. 

Is this normal?

::edit:: Just found this - http://www.thetubestore.com/Resources/Product-Reviews/12AX7-Tube-Review

Apparently the Sovtek 5751 I have is rated very poor for microphonics. And there's an explanation there of why feedback from tubes is more common in combo amps. I guess it's normal and if I want a lower gain tube in V1 I need to get a better 5751.


----------



## rbnum1fan

I tweaked my DSL for the millionth time y/day and right now this what I am using ,and forsee using for quite a while:

Classic Crunch 
Gain-10
Volume-5
Treble-4
Mids-4
Bass-5
Resonance-3
Presence-8


Guitar- 1976 Les Paul Custom with a Dimarzio Super Distortion in the bridge

pedals-
tuner, Wah,1988 vintage Marshall Guv'nor for lead boost,MXR Distortion+ (always on, volume all the way up,distortion all the way down) MXR Phsae 90,Boss CH1 Super Chorus,Boss DD3 dealy


----------



## AngusScott

I really want to remove the C19 cap but i've only had the amp since July this year and i have a 3 year extended warranty with Marshall. I do know how to solder, although i'm not as good at it as I used to be at school, but my other concern is actually taking the amp apart and scuffing screwheads etc, would the Marshall warranty detectives be able to tell?

It's a shame there doesn't appear to be many videos or sound clips of the c19 mod removed, I would love to hear how some AC/DC sounds with the mod done.


----------



## MarshallDog

Pasloade74 said:


> I like these settings, do you have the amp in crunch or clean mode?



Glad you like the!! I play most of the time in Classic Crunch and Ultra Lead I channels.


----------



## MarshallDog

AngusScott said:


> I really want to remove the C19 cap but i've only had the amp since July this year and i have a 3 year extended warranty with Marshall. I do know how to solder, although i'm not as good at it as I used to be at school, but my other concern is actually taking the amp apart and scuffing screwheads etc, would the Marshall warranty detectives be able to tell?
> 
> It's a shame there doesn't appear to be many videos or sound clips of the c19 mod removed, I would love to hear how some AC/DC sounds with the mod done.



I didn't worry about it at all. I wanted my amp to sound the way I want it right away and not wait. If you are careful and good at soldering and take your time when removing the board to not scratch anything, I doubt they could tell. Hell, some of the soldering in this amp is terrible and the way they set most of the components is sub standard, they are bent, not standing straight, etc. The other point is that based on my experience, any warranty down the road would be done by a local Marshall Tech and he/she should work for you and not blow you in when it comes to simple little mods that can't cause any damage.


----------



## MarshallDog

guitarman3001 said:


> hrmm....woke up this morning and the reverb was dead again. Picked up the amp and set it down roughly a couple of times and the reverb started working. I can tell that this is going to be an ongoing intermittent problem.



Did you ever open up the amp and take a careful look at the Reverb board checking for any loose components? Also, it might be a good idea to reset the reverb board or at least push it tight into place. It sits on (4) posts and then plugs into the main board below it. Maybe, just maybe during shipping the amp got tossed around a bit and the reverb board is loose on the main PCB? It might be worth a shot, you never know...let us know how you make out.


----------



## guitarman3001

MarshallDog said:


> Did you ever open up the amp and take a careful look at the Reverb board checking for any loose components? Also, it might be a good idea to reset the reverb board or at least push it tight into place. It sits on (4) posts and then plugs into the main board below it. Maybe, just maybe during shipping the amp got tossed around a bit and the reverb board is loose on the main PCB? It might be worth a shot, you never know...let us know how you make out.



yeah, I suck at soldering but I'm no stranger to opening things up. I've been an IT guy and PC tech for a long time. I opened it up this morning and pulled out the reverb board and reseated it. So far so good. But I had already opened it up and pressed down on the board so it should have been seated right. I didn't pull it out and reseat it like I did this time though. Let's see how it goes. 

I hope that's all it was and I don't have to send it back or take it in because I already have a new speaker on the way and I'm about to order a better 5751 to put in V1.


----------



## Steve Naples

That is my usual trick to take it out and reseat it, never works just pressing it down. I should have done that to mine, now I have to open it up again....


----------



## AngusScott

MarshallDog said:


> I didn't worry about it at all. I wanted my amp to sound the way I want it right away and not wait. If you are careful and good at soldering and take your time when removing the board to not scratch anything, I doubt they could tell. Hell, some of the soldering in this amp is terrible and the way they set most of the components is sub standard, they are bent, not standing straight, etc. The other point is that based on my experience, any warranty down the road would be done by a local Marshall Tech and he/she should work for you and not blow you in when it comes to simple little mods that can't cause any damage.



Thanks MarshallDog, you have given me a some confidence in tackling the c19 mod and i may just do it this weekend. As you say it's about getting the amp to sound the way you want it so i may as well try and get there sooner rather than later!


----------



## AngusScott

Well i've done the c19 mod but i don't like it:frown:and i've clipped the leg on the cap.

Not sure what to do now, it didn't take me long to do but i wish i had left well alone, the sounds just really dark now, i like the string articulation better but theres no bite to the sound, it's lost it's character and drive.

I wonder if changing the pre amps tube would help?


----------



## guitarman3001

AngusScott said:


> Well i've done the c19 mod but i don't like it:frown:and i've clipped the leg on the cap.
> 
> Not sure what to do now, it didn't take me long to do but i wish i had left well alone, the sounds just really mushy now, i like the string articulation better but theres no bite to the sound, it's lost it's character and drive.
> 
> I wonder if changing the pre amps tube would help?



For anyone who can solder better than me (which is pretty much anyone), I'd think it should be easy to just solder the leg back together. 

I've been messing around with mine pretty much non stop since I got it and I doubt I'm going to do anything with C19. I'm finding that a 5751 in V1 and a speaker change is pretty much all I need to get both channels sounding good. It's not 100% perfect but I'd say it's about 90% there. If I understand correctly, C19 has the biggest effect when the gain is set low. The higher you turn up the gain, the less brightness C19 adds. My guess was right - replacing V1 with a lower gain tube like a 5751 lets you turn the gain knob higher which reduces the effect C19 has, which gets the EQ to sound more even between both channels, especially if you keep the gain on channel 1 at or below halfway. Combine that with a less fizzy speaker and to my ears, it's about 90% there. 

I have a WGS Liberator on the way and found a local source for NOS tubes and he has a Jan GE 5751 in stock so I'm going to pick that up next week. The Sovtek I'm using now tends to suffer from microphonic feedback when the amp is turned up too loud. 

I also put Mullards in V2 and V3. 

I think the biggest thing holding this amp back is the stock speaker. It's hollow and fizzy. When I plug the amp into my 1965a 4x10 it sounds 100% better. 

I also tried a couple of 1x12 cabs I have. One's loaded with a Swamp Thang and the other with one of the Mesa C90 speakers. I didn't particularly care for either of them which is not surprising considering they are both American voiced speakers and the Marshall should sound better with a British voiced one, at least to my ears. BTW, both of those cabs sound great with my Ampeg GVT15. 

So, my alternative to the C19 mod is basically a lower gain tube in V1 and a better speaker, neither of which should void any warranty since they are both user replaceable parts.


----------



## AngusScott

guitarman3001 said:


> For anyone who can solder better than me (which is pretty much anyone), I'd think it should be easy to just solder the leg back together.
> 
> I've been messing around with mine pretty much non stop since I got it and I doubt I'm going to do anything with C19. I'm finding that a 5751 in V1 and a speaker change is pretty much all I need to get both channels sounding good. It's not 100% perfect but I'd say it's about 90% there. If I understand correctly, C19 has the biggest effect when the gain is set low. The higher you turn up the gain, the less brightness C19 adds. My guess was right - replacing V1 with a lower gain tube like a 5751 lets you turn the gain knob higher which reduces the effect C19 has, which gets the EQ to sound more even between both channels, especially if you keep the gain on channel 1 at or below halfway. Combine that with a less fizzy speaker and to my ears, it's about 90% there.
> 
> I have a WGS Liberator on the way and found a local source for NOS tubes and he has a Jan GE 5751 in stock so I'm going to pick that up next week. The Sovtek I'm using now tends to suffer from microphonic feedback when the amp is turned up too loud.
> 
> I also put Mullards in V2 and V3.
> 
> I think the biggest thing holding this amp back is the stock speaker. It's hollow and fizzy. When I plug the amp into my 1965a 4x10 it sounds 100% better.
> 
> I also tried a couple of 1x12 cabs I have. One's loaded with a Swamp Thang and the other with one of the Mesa C90 speakers. I didn't particularly care for either of them which is not surprising considering they are both American voiced speakers and the Marshall should sound better with a British voiced one, at least to my ears. BTW, both of those cabs sound great with my Ampeg GVT15.
> 
> So, my alternative to the C19 mod is basically a lower gain tube in V1 and a better speaker, neither of which should void any warranty since they are both user replaceable parts.



I feel really bad for doing the mod now, gonna see what i can do to put it back to stock.


----------



## MarshallDog

AngusScott said:


> I feel really bad for doing the mod now, gonna see what i can do to put it back to stock.



Thats too bad you didn't like it. Most people around here love it but its all about taste. What is your Treble, Presence and Resonance set at? Decreasing the Resonance may help and increasing the Treble and/or Presence should help. If you really decide to put the cap back in and the leg you clipped is too short, you can always buy another one at at Digi-Key (P/N BC1066CT-ND) on line for about 25 cents or so. It is just a 470 pF 100 V ceramic cap, I keep them stocked in my bag of goodies. If you are not good at soldering, I would suggest removing the board and working from both sides as it is much easier to do and you will have less of a chance at lifting a trace or accidentally touching another component doing it this way. It is easy, just take your time and don't force the leg into the hole. Another option is to have your amp tech do it. It should be really cheap for him to do.


----------



## AngusScott

MarshallDog said:


> Thats too bad you didn't like it. Most people around here love it but its all about taste. What is your Treble, Presence and Resonance set at? Decreasing the Resonance may help and increasing the Treble and/or Presence should help. If you really decide to put the cap back in and the leg you clipped is too short, you can always buy another one at at Digi-Key (P/N BC1066CT-ND) on line for about 25 cents or so. It is just a 470 pF 100 V ceramic cap, I keep them stocked in my bag of goodies. If you are not good at soldering, I would suggest removing the board and working from both sides as it is much easier to do and you will have less of a chance at lifting a trace or accidentally touching another component doing it this way. It is easy, just take your time and don't force the leg into the hole. Another option is to have your amp tech do it. It should be really cheap for him to do.



Many thanks for you suggestions MarshallDog, i really appreciate it. I tried with the resonance set to zero and the presence set really high but i still couldn't get that bite back.


----------



## Pumpkin88

guitarman3001 said:


> Here's a new one. I was on the Ultra channel and had the gain at about 70%. I started turning up the volume and once I got to about halfway, the amp started making a squealing noise. It was feedback from a tube. It does it even without having a guitar plugged into it. I've narrowed it down to V1.
> 
> I've made sure the little rubber grommet thing is in place properly and the tube is seated tightly. I've also tried different tubes and it still does it. I tried the stock tube, a Mullard, and a Sovtek 5751.
> 
> Are these amps just that sensitive in V1 that you can't turn channel 2 up that loud? I recall seeing a Joe Bonamassa demo in which he dimes everything and it doesn't squeal like that.
> 
> Also, even before it starts squealing, if I just tap the amp lightly with my hand or with anything else, every time I tap it it makes a pinging sound.
> 
> Is this normal?
> 
> ::edit:: Just found this - www.thetubestore.com - 12AX7 Tube Review
> 
> Apparently the Sovtek 5751 I have is rated very poor for microphonics. And there's an explanation there of why feedback from tubes is more common in combo amps. I guess it's normal and if I want a lower gain tube in V1 I need to get a better 5751.



No thats not normal I would return it and get a replacement. After spending $700 I wouldn't even think twice about it.


----------



## guitarman3001

Pumpkin88 said:


> No thats not normal I would return it and get a replacement. After spending $700 I wouldn't even think twice about it.


 
I'm pretty sure it's a microphonic tube. I tried it with an external speaker cab and it was fine. It's only when using the internal speaker which is right next to the tube. 

It's probably just a case of a crappy stock tube, a 5751 that is rated very poorly for microphonics, and a case of just too much gain and volume for the Mullard. 

At least that's what I'm hoping. I'm keeping the box for now though considering the issue I'm having with the reverb. And if the GE 5751 still squeals, then I'll know it's something other than crappy tubes.


----------



## JEB

I put together a quick video trying to demonstrate the before (Celestion 70/80 with C19 removed) and after (Celestion Gold, C19 removed, ClassicTone Choke, some tubes).

Warning!!!!  My guitar playing is bad and may offend those with delicate sensibilities. Hopefully someone can stomach the atrocious playing and will find this useful.

Marshall DSL40C Mod Demo - YouTube

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/5Hhh3_YJkAI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


----------



## Coronado

Dizzyg12 said:


> What kind of pedal setup I everyone run in with their 40c? I have a wah in front and eq and delay in the loop. Wanting to grab a few other effects, maybe chorus and a Better reverb than the on board. Also a noise gate or some sort to kill the hum on the hi gain red channel.





Dizzyg12 said:


> What else? Fuzz, phase 90, tube screamer? Anyone use them?




Man, right now I'm such a pedal whore! I REALLY like how clean the effects loop is on the DSL40 and how good it sounds with so many different types of pedals. My JCM800 (reissue) has an effects loop, but its really moody - it likes some pedals and not others. Some days the 800 gives a horrible sound when I use the loop, and some days it will work okay. I already brought it to a good tech once for this and its already back to giving me shit when I try to run effects through the loop. I basically quit using the loop in the 800. BUT, the DSL40 loop is great! 

Currently trying out all sorts of OD/dist pedals as well (looking for that perfect sound, ya know?). For OD I'm running the Wampler Sovereign, a modded TS9, stock SD-1 and the OCD. I'm pretty impressed with the OCD! Been using that a lot lately. Through the loop Im running a Hall of Fame reverb, Super Chorus, MXR Zakk W. phase (GC has them for $50 right now!), and the 10 band MXR EQ. I go back and forth with putting the ISP Decimator 2 in the loop and in front of the amp (most of the time I really dont need it, only use it when I'm doing my usual errible job of trying to record). I like how it sounds with the phase and chorus and a little reverb on the OD 1 channel, gain at around 4. Really cool sound. 

Cant get enough of this DSL40. Cant wait to try a new speaker and some different tubes!!


----------



## Pumpkin88

I've just been running everything through the front of the amp. I haven't tried using the effects loop yet but good to here that it works well. As good as the OD channels are I haven't really been using them too much. Currently using a Big Muff for my OD on the clean channel, which actually sounds close to the lead 2 channel with the gain cranked but a lot fatter.


----------



## AngusScott

For those that have done the c19 mod did you find a very real noticeable decrease in treble on the lead 1 channel? Theres far too much bass and mud that can't be dialed out now. I've reconnected the C19 cap just by pushing it back down so that it is touching the other leg and i can't get the treble back. I'm wondering if the power tubes are on their way out as i have had to increase the volume and treble on lead 1 for the past couple of weeks. It's almost like the drive has been sapped out of that channel aswell because now i have to turn the gain up more but still can't get the drive i had before. The Marshall logo on one of the power tubes has turned brown and that valve also has a faint purple glow to it. I've had the amp over the 90 days now so i'm taking it to a tech next week to reconnect c19 and to check the valves and bias.

I'm wondering if the valves hadn't gone bad if i would have liked the c19 mod, i can't believe there was so much of a difference but not for the better. As most people have found the mod to be an improvement it makes me wonder if something is not right with the amp.


----------



## saxon68

I kept mine totally stock except replacing a bad preamp tube, been loving it more and more as the speaker breaks in. I may replace it some day, but not really seeing a reason for it at the moment.


----------



## JEB

AngusScott said:


> For those that have done the c19 mod did you find a very real noticeable decrease in treble on the lead 1 channel?



I put a switch in to use C19 or cut it if I want. In switching back and forth between them, I notice I need to turn the treble up ~4 and the middle up ~2 when C19 is cut to have around the same equalization. However, the background "hiss" is lower with C19 off and the amp just doesn't get into the icepick harshness.

I'm no expert, but it sounds to me like a tube issue and maybe your speaker is breaking in.


----------



## AngusScott

JEB said:


> I put a switch in to use C19 or cut it if I want. In switching back and forth between them, I notice I need to turn the treble up ~4 and the middle up ~2 when C19 is cut to have around the same equalization. However, the background "hiss" is lower with C19 off and the amp just doesn't get into the icepick harshness.
> 
> I'm no expert, but it sounds to me like a tube issue and maybe your speaker is breaking in.


 
Great idea to install a switch JEB, why o why did Marshall no do this. I have to admit one thing that was tempting me to do the mod was the back ground hiss on lead 1 other than that the icepick harshness was mellowing over time, probably due to speaker break in. The sound I was close to on the lead 1 channel was that of early AC/DC and i believe those 70's JMPs Angus used were also known for being very bright, i seemed to have lost some of that aggressive AC/DC flavour when i did the mod but again i've not sure if part of that is due to tube problems aswell. Anyway hpoefully i'm having a tech look at it this week.


----------



## guitarman3001

Here it is in all its glory! Stacks nicely on top of a Marshall 1965a 4x10. Pic is from a gig yesterday afternoon.


----------



## Micky

Nice!


----------



## guitarman3001

BTW, mine is staying stock with the exception of tubes and speaker. I found that the brightness I hear at apartment volumes is perfect for cutting through in a live mix. No need for the C19 mod. When you turn the volume up to gig levels, the EQ tends to even out. If I were to play only at very low apartment levels, I'd consider it but for gigs it's not necessary. IMO, it sounded perfect as it was. I guess there is some method to Marshall's madness with that bright cap. The amp likes to be turned up and simply doesn't sound as good at low volumes. But cranked up, even a little, it shines. 

Only thing I will do with it is change the tubes and the speaker. The 5751 I put in V1 made a very big difference and that's all it really needs. Hell, even the stock speaker sounded pretty good at higher volumes. 

And as good as it sounded at home when I ran an Xotic SL into channel one in crunch mode with the gain below halfway, it sounded even better at gig volumes. Pure plexi tone. 

And here's an interesting thing - when I was setting it up at the gig and playing some random chords and riffs through the Ultra channel, our drummer came up to me and out of the blue said the tone reminded him of Gary Moore's tone. I've been chasing that tone for years and I think this is about as close as I'm ever going to get. I mentioned it in the Gary Moore tone thread - this amp with a TC Spark Booster in the FX loop is capable of getting very very close to that tone. 

I just hope the reverb doesn't crap out again because I'd hate to send it back.


----------



## Dizzyg12

guitarman3001 said:


> Here it is in all its glory! Stacks nicely on top of a Marshall 1965a 4x10. Pic is from a gig yesterday afternoon.



Needs some road rash to match but otherwise fantastic!

Are you running just the cab or internal with the cab?

I wish they made a head version if this amp. I think a 40H with a slanted 4x12 would be sick!


----------



## guitarman3001

Dizzyg12 said:


> Needs some road rash to match but otherwise fantastic!
> 
> Are you running just the cab or internal with the cab?
> 
> I wish they made a head version if this amp. I think a 40H with a slanted 4x12 would be sick!




I ran both together. Used a Weber Z-matcher to give the amp the right impedance but I have an 8 ohm speaker on order so once I put that in, I'll be able to run the internal speaker and external cab in series without the Z-matcher which will give me a 16 ohm load. 

Although I could have run them both just fine even without the Z-matcher. A 5.3 ohm load should be perfectly fine out of the 8 ohm taps. Especially if you don't push the volume all the way. Only thing that would happen is if you push the volume too high, you'll work the power tubes a little harder but it won't have any other effect. 

I also have the matching bottom 4x10 cab and one of these days I'm going to run the full 4x10 stack with the DSL on top of it. Only problem is I have absolutely no way to carry all that stuff in my little Mini Cooper. 

And yeah, that 4x10 has some serious mojo. I've owned it for close to 20 years and bought it used with some mojo already on it. Those 4x10s have traveled with me all over the east coast from NY to FL to TN to New Orleans and all over the eastern US.

BTW, if you have any woodworking skills or know of anyone with some woodworking skills, it should be pretty easy to make a head out of the amp. You could probably even do it with the stock cab if you're willing to chop off the bottom half of it. I agree that it would be awesome to get a head only version of it. Would love to see that in the form of a head on top of my 4x10 stack.


----------



## Micky

Wait - What impedance is the cab?

What speaker is in the combo?


----------



## guitarman3001

Micky said:


> Wait - What impedance is the cab?
> 
> What speaker is in the combo?



4x10 cab is 8 ohm. Stock speaker in the DSL is 16 ohm. In parallel that's a 5.3 ohm load.


----------



## Micky

Sorry, I had the impression the cab was 16...


----------



## jgnelson

In regards to the C19 MOD, I do believe it is important to remember that sound taste vary amongst all guitar players, myself I like the smooth Marshall sound I had with my JCM800 100watt combo amp of 1986, I sold this amp last year thinking I would never play in a band again, and here I am playing again after 30 years, who would have guessed. I started this year with the MG101CFX and could not stand the sound so I sold it and I bought the DSL40c, I though at the time most Marshall tube amps were pretty much the same, but they are not. This DSL40c in my opinion is a piece of crap compared to what they build 20 or 30 years ago, but I have to remember everyone has different taste, so the nasty bite I get out of this DSL40c I can't stand, but others may like it. The problem is these cost so much you must make sure it is what you want.
So my point here is I performed the C19 MOD, when I played through the amp I was not sure it was what I wanted do I reversed the MOD and when I played through it again, I really noticed a difference, so I performed the C19 MOD again. Now is it exactly the sound I want? not really but it is a 1000 times better sounding to (me) then when the C19 is hooked up.

I simply do not understand why Marshall can't just make a smooth sounding tube amp anymore without someone having to make MOD changes to them.

Well, enough of my soapbox for today  but seriously if I could do it all over again, I would have just bought a cheap ass "toshihime" tube amp and lived with that and save some of my money.

But it is all about sound taste and we are all different 

Gary..


----------



## MarshallDog

jgnelson said:


> In regards to the C19 MOD, I do believe it is important to remember that sound taste vary amongst all guitar players, myself I like the smooth Marshall sound I had with my JCM800 100watt combo amp of 1986, I sold this amp last year thinking I would never play in a band again, and here I am playing again after 30 years, who would have guessed. I started this year with the MG101CFX and could not stand the sound so I sold it and I bought the DSL40c, I though at the time most Marshall tube amps were pretty much the same, but they are not. This DSL40c in my opinion is a piece of crap compared to what they build 20 or 30 years ago, but I have to remember everyone has different taste, so the nasty bite I get out of this DSL40c I can't stand, but others may like it. The problem is these cost so much you must make sure it is what you want.
> So my point here is I performed the C19 MOD, when I played through the amp I was not sure it was what I wanted do I reversed the MOD and when I played through it again, I really noticed a difference, so I performed the C19 MOD again. Now is it exactly the sound I want? not really but it is a 1000 times better sounding to (me) then when the C19 is hooked up.
> 
> I simply do not understand why Marshall can't just make a smooth sounding tube amp anymore without someone having to make MOD changes to them.
> 
> Well, enough of my soapbox for today  but seriously if I could do it all over again, I would have just bought a cheap ass "toshihime" tube amp and lived with that and save some of my money.
> 
> But it is all about sound taste and we are all different
> 
> Gary..



Gary, I couldn't have said it better! It seems that not just Marshall but many of the big name mfg's of amps these days seem to think they need an amp that has really high ice picking in the ear tones unless you turn the treble and presence OFF and keep the mids to a min (making the tone pots almost unuseable) even when playing with a LPS which is a thick sounding guitar. I hate to think of what these amps would sound like playing with a single coil or a thin sounding guitar??? Anyway I am comparing these tones to an 83 JCM 800 and an 80 JMP which are a few of the great vintage amps of the day IMO. This is my experience lately and I tried an Orange Rockerverb MKII 50 and an H&K TubeMiester 30. What are they thinking??? Some may say why not try a Mesa? Well, I don't care for their modern dark sound and I am a Marshall man and love the vintage Marshall tone. 

I love the C19 mod so much that I have since done the "C4" lowering the cap from 100 pF now to 15 pF and love it much more. The amp is now very close to the old Marshall vintage tone and it makes my guitar and amp tone pots more useable and the amp is not "dark" sounding at all and it still has more than enough bite if I turn up my guitar tone pots... 

Enough venting and ranting for now!


----------



## guitarman3001

I'm curious, has anyone else tried putting a lower gain tube like a 5751 in V1 and turning up the gain knob as an alternative to the C19 mod?


----------



## Coronado

Hey Micky! Hope you had good Thanksgiving my friend! I think I'm finally ready to get some new tubes in the DSL40! I still have the stock EH tubes which I think sound pretty good to be honest. I'm looking forward to trying out some new tubes in this bad boy, but will hold on to these EH as they are pretty new (couple months old) and will work well if I end up needing one. 

Do you still recommend the TAD 7025's? The EH EL34's work pretty well so far, so perhaps I'll start off with changing out the preamp tubes (unless you think there would be a nice improvement with an upgrade to the power tubes as well?). You really know your stuff Micky- I'll drop in whatever you send me brother! (just tell me what I owe and I'll get it right to you).

As always, thanks for the help!


----------



## guitarman3001

Coronado said:


> Hey Micky! Hope you had good Thanksgiving my friend! I think I'm finally ready to get some new tubes in the DSL40! I still have the stock EH tubes which I think sound pretty good to be honest. I'm looking forward to trying out some new tubes in this bad boy, but will hold on to these EH as they are pretty new (couple months old) and will work well if I end up needing one.
> 
> Do you still recommend the TAD 7025's? The EH EL34's work pretty well so far, so perhaps I'll start off with changing out the preamp tubes (unless you think there would be a nice improvement with an upgrade to the power tubes as well?). You really know your stuff Micky- I'll drop in whatever you send me brother! (just tell me what I owe and I'll get it right to you).
> 
> As always, thanks for the help!



Are the stock tubes EH? I thought they were cheap generic Chinese tubes.

Anyway, I put Mullards in V2 and V3 and tried a Sovtek 5751 in V1 but the Sovtek was too microphonic. Today I picked up a Jan GE 5751 and it's not microphonic at all and has a much lower noise floor. A lot less hiss and absolutely no squealing when the volume and gain are cranked on channel 2. I got it from a local tube dealer who let me go to his shop and try out a couple of different tubes. The first one I tried made some strange crackling noises but the second one was perfect.


----------



## Micky

The stock tubes in the DSL40c are Chinese Shugyangs.
I replaced my EL34's with TAD EL34b STR's and have not looked back.
See my previous posts about this in this thread.
These tubes are awesome.

I kept all my original tubes as my spare set#1.

As far as preamp tubes are concerned, this is where you will also get a million differing opinions. Marshall designed the DSL's with 12AX7 tubes, running a lower gain tube such as a 5751 will not yield the results Marshall has in the specs, even though it is a MIL-spec tube. I have also detailed my choices in a previous post in this thread.
I think a NOS Mullard in V1... PM MartyStrat54 for his current recommendations.

It is important to note - There have been a few V2 tube failures reported here, as well as on other boards so it is important to have a sturdy tube there.


----------



## Coronado

guitarman3001 said:


> Are the stock tubes EH? I thought they were cheap generic Chinese tubes.
> 
> Anyway, I put Mullards in V2 and V3 and tried a Sovtek 5751 in V1 but the Sovtek was too microphonic. Today I picked up a Jan GE 5751 and it's not microphonic at all and has a much lower noise floor. A lot less hiss and absolutely no squealing when the volume and gain are cranked on channel 2. I got it from a local tube dealer who let me go to his shop and try out a couple of different tubes. The first one I tried made some strange crackling noises but the second one was perfect.


 
Thanks for the recommendation Guitarman! Last night when I took a flashlight and looked at the power tubes, I could see that they were Electro Harmonix EL34's - is that the label they just slap on a Chinese tube? How cool was THAT to be able to pull out a bunch of different tubes and try them out?! What i wouldn't give to just HEAR the way those NOS tubes sounded! I would really like to learn the differences of how each sound! Thanks again!


----------



## Coronado

Micky said:


> The stock tubes in the DSL40c are Chinese Shugyangs.
> I replaced my EL34's with TAD EL34b STR's and have not looked back.
> See my previous posts about this in this thread.
> These tubes are awesome.
> 
> I kept all my original tubes as my spare set#1.
> 
> As far as preamp tubes are concerned, this is where you will also get a million differing opinions. Marshall designed the DSL's with 12AX7 tubes, running a lower gain tube such as a 5751 will not yield the results Marshall has in the specs, even though it is a MIL-spec tube. I have also detailed my choices in a previous post in this thread.
> I think a NOS Mullard in V1... PM MartyStrat54 for his current recommendations.
> 
> It is important to note - There have been a few V2 tube failures reported here, as well as on other boards so it is important to have a sturdy tube there.


 
Hey Micky! as always, thanks for your help! I was scanning through many old posts (this thread as well) and read up on your recommendation towards the TADS/Mullards, so I wanted to make sure you still liked that setup and sequence before going that route. I found what you meant by varying opinions on preamp tubes - Line up 10 people and they will offer 10 different tubes and reasons why its the best setup. I guess this one is personal preference. Thanks again Micky.


----------



## guitarman3001

Micky said:


> The stock tubes in the DSL40c are Chinese Shugyangs.
> I replaced my EL34's with TAD EL34b STR's and have not looked back.
> See my previous posts about this in this thread.
> These tubes are awesome.
> 
> I kept all my original tubes as my spare set#1.
> 
> As far as preamp tubes are concerned, this is where you will also get a million differing opinions. Marshall designed the DSL's with 12AX7 tubes, running a lower gain tube such as a 5751 will not yield the results Marshall has in the specs, even though it is a MIL-spec tube. I have also detailed my choices in a previous post in this thread.
> I think a NOS Mullard in V1... PM MartyStrat54 for his current recommendations.
> 
> It is important to note - There have been a few V2 tube failures reported here, as well as on other boards so it is important to have a sturdy tube there.



My understanding is that in general, 5751s are essentially a lower gain drop-in replacement for 12ax7s and run at the same voltages and specs, just lower gain. To my ears it sounds better in V1 than a 12AX7 since it's lower gain and lets you turn up the gain knob higher to end up with the same relative amount of gain. This takes away some of the brightness and fizz that C19 adds with the gain knob set lower. 

The one thing I've learned recently about 5751s is that some of the cheap lower grade ones tend to be microphonic. The Sovtek I tried for example. But the Jan GE I picked up today seems fine. I can dime the gain and the volume without so much as a hint of a squeal.


----------



## guitarman3001

Just put a WGS Liberator in it. Sounds a lot thicker in the mids just as I had hoped it would. Also reduces the fizz in the Ultra channel. 


So far so good. Everything sounds good, the reverb is still working, and no
warranty-voiding mods needed. 

BTW, regarding microphonics when diming the Ultra channel gain and volume, I watched the Joe Bonamassa vid again and noticed that when he dimed everything it was on the Classic channel set to crunch mode. Much less gain than the Ultra channel.


----------



## MarshallDog

Hey Guys, just wondering if any of you wouldn't mind performing a little test on your DSL40C for me because I am curious if your does the same thing that mine dose??

Here's what mine is doing and I am not sure if this is normal or not with these amps. If from a dead cold start (tubes and amp completely cold/room temp) I turn on the power then within seconds take the amp out of standby and just sit back an listen to it (nothing plugged into the input) , within about 30-45 sec I will hear a faint bit of hissing & erratic static for a few seconds then it goes away and all is fine. These are new JJ E34L's, biased correctly and I'm just wondering if this is normal as the tubes warm up completely? It appears that if the tubes are already warmed up any amount at all, it does not happen. So I am wondering if this is just a characteristic of this amp and if this is normal when cold. Also, If I let the amp sit in standby for a couple minutes then take it out of standby, this does not happen.

I know the proper practice to extend tube life is to let the tubes warm up before taking them out of standby (which I normally do) but my other amps do not do this. 

The only mods are a choke, C19 removed and C4 lowered to 15 pF which I am sure shouldn't affect the amp as these are all simple mods and many of you have added the choke.

Let me know if you don't mind, I am very curious.

Thanks,


----------



## dave999z

MarshallDog said:


> If from a dead cold start (tubes and amp completely cold/room temp) I turn on the power then within seconds take the amp out of standby and just sit back an listen to it (nothing plugged into the input) , within about 30-45 sec I will hear a faint bit of hissing & erratic static for a few seconds then it goes away and all is fine.



What channel and what settings? (e.g., are you talking red channel with gain & volume all the way up?)


----------



## MarshallDog

dave999z said:


> What channel and what settings? (e.g., are you talking red channel with gain & volume all the way up?)



It doesn't appear that the channel and/or EQ settings affect it BUT I have noticed this on channel 1 crunch, gain 7, t=4, m=6, b=4.5, V= abou1.5-2 (low volumes). Its almost like some bleed through sounds as the tubes get up to temp, or at least that's what I am thinking/hoping unless it is a characteristic of JJ tubes. I have also changed out the pre-amp tubes also. FYI, it is not a loud sound, it is rather subtle...


----------



## dave999z

Confirmed. I hear exactly what you describe.

There's nothing wrong. Tube amps do this. They have self noise (and easily pick up interference). They're weird as the tubes warm up.

Don't worry about it.


----------



## MarshallDog

dave999z said:


> Confirmed. I hear exactly what you describe.
> 
> There's nothing wrong. Tube amps do this. They have self noise (and easily pick up interference). They're weird as the tubes warm up.
> 
> Don't worry about it.



Thanks Bro, I mean thanks a lot!!! I thought something might be going wrong with my 1 month old amp OR I was losing my mind. Time for a brew and thanks again...


----------



## guitarman3001

Well, reverb stopped working again. Unbelievable. It's going back. Let's see if the third one I get finally works without any problems.


----------



## MarshallDog

guitarman3001 said:


> Well, reverb stopped working again. Unbelievable. It's going back. Let's see if the third one I get finally works without any problems.



Un F'ing believable!!! Hang in there man 3rd times a charm...


----------



## guitarman3001

MarshallDog said:


> Un F'ing believable!!! Hang in there man 3rd times a charm...



lol...yeah, at this point what can you do but laugh.... Meantime, for my gigs this weekend I'll be breaking out the Blackstar 5 watt stack of doom.


----------



## MarshallDog

guitarman3001 said:


> lol...yeah, at this point what can you do but laugh.... Meantime, for my gigs this weekend I'll be breaking out the Blackstar 5 watt stack of doom.



Does the place you bought it from have anymore instock??


----------



## MarshallDog

Well phock me hard, my new DSL40C is mo longer a virgin and I am pissed off!! Apparently I scratched the face plate (just under the green LED) last night when I was re-installing the chassis, mother f'er!!! Be careful when re-installing the chassis, the staples that are used to attach the grill cloth are just a fraction of an inch above the edge of the face plate when sliding it in and one of those little bastards must have made contact. I am very fussy with my gear and this is not good. I keep telling myself, shit like this will happen one way or another and now she is broken in...I try so hard to be very careful.


----------



## Dizzyg12

MarshallDog said:


> Well phock me hard, my new DSL40C is mo longer a virgin and I am pissed off!! Apparently I scratched the face plate (just under the green LED) last night when I was re-installing the chassis, mother f'er!!! Be careful when re-installing the chassis, the staples that are used to attach the grill cloth are just a fraction of an inch above the edge of the face plate when sliding it in and one of those little bastards must have made contact. I am very fussy with my gear and this is not good. I keep telling myself, shit like this will happen one way or another and now she is broken in...I try so hard to be very careful.



Reminds me of when I dropped a screwdriver and slightly dented the finish on the LP. It's barely noticeable but it's there and I know it. It's my OCD kicking in lol, but I keep telling myself it sounds better now.


----------



## MarshallDog

Dizzyg12 said:


> Reminds me of when I dropped a screwdriver and slightly dented the finish on the LP. It's barely noticeable but it's there and I know it. It's my OCD kicking in lol, but I keep telling myself it sounds better now.



LOL, but not really, I did the same thing a few years ago and now the guitar has been replaced...wish I didn't care about my gear so dam much.


----------



## Micky

Take a cotton ball and see if you can buff it out.


----------



## Dizzyg12

Looks like I have to wait til Monday for my vintage 30 and other goodies....damn ups!


----------



## Dizzyg12

Micky said:


> Take a cotton ball and see if you can buff it out.



Me? Nah I don't really mind. I realize that my run of the mill, everyday, mass produced lp trad will be worth no more than the day I brought her home. Unless I hit my head on the sink and inexplicably become a virtuoso leading to mega millions in tv appearances and endorsements from Gibson and Koehler.


----------



## guitarman3001

MarshallDog said:


> Well phock me hard, my new DSL40C is mo longer a virgin and I am pissed off!! Apparently I scratched the face plate (just under the green LED) last night when I was re-installing the chassis, mother f'er!!! Be careful when re-installing the chassis, the staples that are used to attach the grill cloth are just a fraction of an inch above the edge of the face plate when sliding it in and one of those little bastards must have made contact. I am very fussy with my gear and this is not good. I keep telling myself, shit like this will happen one way or another and now she is broken in...I try so hard to be very careful.



Put it in a bag of rice.



Or just appreciate the mojo. Mojo makes music gear sound better.


----------



## gibguy

I am so happy that I found this forum 6 months ago. I've been playing guitar for 39 years now mainly acoustic till 15 years ago. Had numerous SS amps that of course sound just like a Marshall LOL! This place and youtube vids convinced me that this is the amp I need. And it was a great choice. I'm a cabinet builder by trade so I ended up building a custom 2/12 enclosure to fit under the amp loaded with an Eminance Swamp Thang and a Texas Heat. All I can say is wow when I hit that first E power chord. Thing is so full and loud now that I rarely have pushed the volume past 2. The effects loop works excellent I use a TC Electronics Flashback delay in there and it adds so much to the sound. I just want to thank everyone for their input into this particular thread. Oh yea and you guys are a bad influence now I'm thinking about getting some NOS tubes.


----------



## Highroller54

Some info on where I am at with the amp, I'm diggin it.

I have tweaked and tweaked until I think I have a really good dianamic sound. Still looking for a little more vintage type sound but I'm real close.

Marshall DSL 40C set to half power 20watts, at higer gain setting, bed room type levels this amp really doesn't sound very good, but when you start pushing it as in the setting I have it really is a totally different animal and sound close to as good as the older Marshalls I've own ed over the year, and a lot less hassel and back pain to move around. Bang for the buck I don't know of anything that can even come close. A lot of people complain about this amp, but the more I exeriment with different settings the more the amp is outstanding for a 1 x 12 combo, and is loud enough to get over even the loudest drummers with out having to use a drum shield, even though you may need one for proper stage volume in small clubs. Using the setting I have below with very little adjustments and crank the volume up to around 8 and it sings vintage Marshall with great dianamics, roll off the volume and it cleans up nicely, and at these setting and a good set of tubes also very low noise floor.


I'm not using the green channel due to the fact is sound to different from the red, yes I know about the C19 mod but the amp is under warranty and don't want to screw with it. My settings are as follows:


Red channel classic gain, high gain button out
Gain on 5
Volume on 5
Treble on 2
Mid on 4
Bass on 4
Preseces on 5
Resonance on 5
Resonance switch in
Reverb on 3


Les paul Taditional, none wieght relieved 2013
57 classic Neck
57 Classic plus Bridge


Bridge pickup set about a 1/4" from strings
Neck pickup set even with pickup ring
Both Pickups set slightly higher on the treble side
Also both pickup pole pieces adjusted for string balance, stair step
even volume string to string with treble side higher than the bass side.


Brigde pickup Tone on 5
Bridge Volume on 2, very clean sounding
Bridge Volume around 5 very good crunch
Bridge Volume around 7 very good lead sound
Bridge volume to 10 old Led Zep sound
Bridge tone on 10 very good old zep first album communication breakdown type sounding lead.


Neck pick up tone on 10
Neck volume on 2 very jazzy type sound
Neck volume on 4 to 5 nice bluesy type sound
neck volume on 7 to 10 very good Sach type sound


Now if I could just tighten up the neck pick wound string sound (mudier then I like) I would be really a happy camper.


At this time I do not run any effects, once I get this all worked out the way I like then I'll add something to it for enhancement. I'm sorta a purest type player, and effects are to enhance your sound not change or greatly color it..


----------



## JEB

Micky, I've got a stupid question. How difficult would it be to remove the digital reverb and add a spring reverb tank to a dsl40c?


----------



## Micky

Moving the reverb off the board really shouldn't be too difficult, it is the switching that may be the problem.

I was thinking the same thing about an FX loop on the SL-5, should be able to do it, but switching it might be difficult. And that is the whole point, correct? To be able to turn it off and on...

Anyway, I think it is much easier to get a reverb pedal, it looks like that is the road I need to travel for the DSL5c, as it has a loop, but no reverb. Lots of choices for a reverb pedal...


----------



## guitarman3001

Micky said:


> Moving the reverb off the board really shouldn't be too difficult, it is the switching that may be the problem.
> 
> I was thinking the same thing about an FX loop on the SL-5, should be able to do it, but switching it might be difficult. And that is the whole point, correct? To be able to turn it off and on...
> 
> Anyway, I think it is much easier to get a reverb pedal, it looks like that is the road I need to travel for the DSL5c, as it has a loop, but no reverb. Lots of choices for a reverb pedal...


 
Here's a kind of related question - how involved would it be to hard wire a reverb pedal into an amp with an FX loop? Maybe mount the pedal inside the amp with the controls facing out on the back of the amp so you can adjust it easily, but wire it in such a way that you keep the functionality of the loop exactly as it is and you can connect other pedals to the loop without daisy chaining it with the reverb.


----------



## Highroller54

Micky said:


> The stock tubes in the DSL40c are Chinese Shugyangs.
> I replaced my EL34's with TAD EL34b STR's and have not looked back.
> See my previous posts about this in this thread.
> These tubes are awesome.
> 
> I kept all my original tubes as my spare set#1.
> 
> As far as preamp tubes are concerned, this is where you will also get a million differing opinions. Marshall designed the DSL's with 12AX7 tubes, running a lower gain tube such as a 5751 will not yield the results Marshall has in the specs, even though it is a MIL-spec tube. I have also detailed my choices in a previous post in this thread.
> I think a NOS Mullard in V1... PM MartyStrat54 for his current recommendations.
> 
> It is important to note - There have been a few V2 tube failures reported here, as well as on other boards so it is important to have a sturdy tube there.


 
Micky,

I got to know the tech that straightened my amp out, we had many conversations about the amp and when it came to the stock tubes, this is what he said, now this is the power tubes I forgot what the pre's where but the Nippo amps have Marshall branded Ruby's and the english made amps have Marshall branded Winged C's, in them.


----------



## Dizzyg12

My vintage 30 came today....gonna try to drop it in tomorrow or wed.....


----------



## JEB

Highroller54 said:


> ...the english made amps have Marshall branded Winged C's, in them.



I've recently put a pair of =C='s in mine and I don't find that it's much of an improvement over the stock tubes (assuming Ruby's). Also, I notice the =C='s have a lot more background hiss as I turn up the volume. Maybe I just got a bad pair.


----------



## Axeplyr

guitarman3001 said:


> Well, reverb stopped working again. Unbelievable. It's going back. Let's see if the third one I get finally works without any problems.



Yup, my reverb died and is in the shop awaiting repair as well.


----------



## guitarman3001

Axeplyr said:


> Yup, my reverb died and is in the shop awaiting repair as well.



I've read several reports of the reverb on these things dying or not working. Pretty much every report of the reverb being so subtle that they can't tell the difference between it being on or off is a broken reverb. 

My third DSL40 is set to arrive today. Let's see if the third time's a charm.


----------



## MarshallDog

JEB said:


> I've recently put a pair of =C='s in mine and I don't find that it's much of an improvement over the stock tubes (assuming Ruby's). Also, I notice the =C='s have a lot more background hiss as I turn up the volume. Maybe I just got a bad pair.



JJ E34L's sound great in this amp, they sound rich...IMO!


----------



## guitarman3001

Well.....it's here....and so far so good. At least out of the box, none of the problems that plagued the other one. So far the reverb works. Also no microphonic squealing when I dime the gain and volume on the Ultra channel. Mind you, I can't play it like that otherwise my neighbors will call the cops in 2 seconds flat but at least I know it doesn't squeal.

I think I'm going to leave it bone stock for now. No tube swaps, no speaker swaps. Not even going to open the back. I'm actually afraid to even look in its direction. lol

And the box had been beat to sh!t by UPS so I'm hoping that if anything was going to come loose or break, it would have happened when UPS banged it up.


----------



## Coronado

I find it interesting that I bought the DSL40 from GC new and it came with Electro Harmonix EL34's in it, but Marshall stock preamp tubes. I went to the same GC yesterday and they have another DSL40 now. Looked inside and can see that this DSL40 has stock Marshall power tubes. Huh? Did someone buy this amp, put new power tubes in, return it and they sold it to me as a new amp? The reverb has never worked, so that may be the reason it was returned? 

I swapped out the stock preamp tubes over the weekend with some EH 12AX7-HE that I had (new tubes). To be honest, I could not tell the difference. I even recorded the sound and played it over and over. Not too sure these EH tubes are any better than stock Marshall tubes. I could now hear the very slightest of reverb now after bangin' around in there swapping tubes. 

I've also noticed that subtle hum is back (comes and goes now). Time to take this thing into a tech. Frustrating.


----------



## Micky

Surprisingly, when I put in the new TAD EL34b STR power tubes, I think the reverb in mine woke up. Seems I can hear it a lot better now. 

At least on the Classic channel anyway...


----------



## guitarman3001

The reverb does seem to be stronger on the classic channel. I wonder if this is by design since most people use less reverb for dirt tones. 

I also wonder if anyone will ever solve the mystery of the broken reverbs on a lot of these amps.


----------



## Coronado

A couple months ago I moved into a new house that is kind of tucked back away from other neighbors. Did I buy this particular house because I SO desperately wanted to crank the HELL out of my JCM800 and DSL40? Sure didn’t hurt its appeal when comparing a couple different places! 

Anyway, the wife had not yet come home from work yesterday and I was racing home to get roughly 45 minutes of LOUD guitar time in before she walked in. I was in a RUSH mood, so I cranked the JCM800 and started playing Rush. I messed around with a little more volume, a little more gain on the amp, perhaps more gain on a pedal or two? Just couldn’t get Alex's sound just right. Switched over to the DSL and it sounded SO much closer! (Cranked up the JCM800 for some Judas Priest - much closer with that amp.). _But *DAMN* do I love the sound of that DSL40!!!_


----------



## Coronado

_Hey Micky, how you liking that new present that just arrived?_


----------



## Micky

It is nice. See the other thread about it for more.

Gonna put the headphones and the 1W setting to the test tonite...


----------



## Coronado

Micky said:


> It is nice. See the other thread about it for more.
> 
> Gonna put the headphones and the 1W setting to the test tonite...


 
Oh COOL! On my way to check out your post!


----------



## Dizzyg12

Coronado said:


> A couple months ago I moved into a new house that is kind of tucked back away from other neighbors. Did I buy this particular house because I SO desperately wanted to crank the HELL out of my JCM800 and DSL40? Sure didn’t hurt its appeal when comparing a couple different places!
> 
> *Anyway, the wife had not yet come home from work yesterday and I was racing home to get roughly 45 minutes of LOUD guitar time in before she walked in.* I was in a RUSH mood, so I cranked the JCM800 and started playing Rush. I messed around with a little more volume, a little more gain on the amp, perhaps more gain on a pedal or two? Just couldn’t get Alex's sound just right. Switched over to the DSL and it sounded SO much closer! (Cranked up the JCM800 for some Judas Priest - much closer with that amp.). _But *DAMN* do I love the sound of that DSL40!!!_



I hear ya there!! Mondays are my "office/guitar" days typically. Wife is at work, kids are at daycare. 2-3 hours of solid work in the AM and then it's time for some fun. Most other days I can't get much practice in at all so when I do it's an all out solo tour. lol 

I do have some programs on my ipad and macbook (garageband, amplitube, jammit, etc) that I play with for silent practice, but I definitely take advantage of making my own schedule.


----------



## Pasloade74

Dizzyg12 said:


> My vintage 30 came today....gonna try to drop it in tomorrow or wed.....



I'm sure you'll love it. The first thing I did when I got home with my Dsl40c was drop in my Vintage 30 and never looked back. Sounds awesome when jamming with the band too.


----------



## Pasloade74

Just wanted to say that this past Sat. was the second time I gigged with this amp since the summer. For our summer show I basicly had two days to spend with it before I gigged. This time around we played a Xmas party indoors. I ran it with a vintage 30 and a 1x12 extention cab. For half the songs I used the ultra 1 channel and it sounded great. The other half of the songs I pretty much used an OCD overdrive on the clean channel(I'm still trying to decide if I want to find a different overdrive). In both cases I boosted with a ts9 for solos. 

Bottom line is once this got warmed up and got the tubes cooking this amp just sounds awesome. I can't say how happy I am with how this amp roars with a band. Rock on!

Just wanted to share my latest DSL40c experience.


----------



## gpasq

DirtySteve said:


>



I have a question... in the pic above, what is the rubber ring on the rightmost tube for? Mine has it too, and, as in the pic, there are no rubber rings on any other tubes. Curious.

I just got my DSL40C last Friday. On Saturday, I was ready to return it, because the red channel was just awfully ice-picky and fizzy. Sunday morning I clipped C19 (my first amp mod  ) and I've been playing it like crazy for the past three days. I've been A/B-ing with my AC15, my previous go-to amp, and I'm VERY happy!


----------



## Micky

The rubber ring is just a grommet slipped onto the tube after it is in place in the socket. It helps keep vibrations from affecting the tube and tone, preventing the tube from becoming 'microphonic'.

Glad you are enjoying your DSL!


----------



## Dizzyg12

Um so I need help with bias readings. I took the chassi pa out today to test the bias and out in the new speaker. I'm not sure if I'm using my meter correctly. Measuring at the conn 5 point with the common on the middle and the hot lead to the right and left prong, I get a reading in my multimeter of 10.0 +\- when set to mA. But when I switch the meter to V I do get a reading of 37.5 +\- mV which seems like the right number by I thought bias was read in mA. The power tubes themselves have 33mA written on them.

What am I doing wrong? also the plate voltage measured at the full-half power switch red wire is 474ish. What should this be biased at?


Thanks!


----------



## Coronado

Micky said:


> The rubber ring is just a grommet slipped onto the tube after it is in place in the socket. It helps keep vibrations from affecting the tube and tone, preventing the tube from becoming 'microphonic'.
> 
> Glad you are enjoying your DSL!


 
Now thats too funny - I saw it this weekend when I was swapping tubes and thought someone used it to help install the tube and just forgot to take it off! Guess I can put it back on now 

It goes on V1, correct?


----------



## JEB

Dizzyg12 said:


> Measuring at the conn 5 point with the common on the middle and the hot lead to the right and left prong, I get a reading in my multimeter of 10.0 +\- when set to mA. But when I switch the meter to V I do get a reading of 37.5 +\- mV which seems like the right number by I thought bias was read in mA.



It's done in mV. I set mine to ~38mV.


----------



## Micky

Coronado said:


> Now thats too funny - I saw it this weekend when I was swapping tubes and thought someone used it to help install the tube and just forgot to take it off! Guess I can put it back on now
> 
> It goes on V1, correct?



Yup.


----------



## Micky

Dizzyg12 said:


> Um so I need help with bias readings. ... But when I switch the meter to V I do get a reading of 37.5 +\- mV which seems like the right number by I thought bias was read in mA. The power tubes themselves have 33mA written on them.
> 
> What am I doing wrong? also the plate voltage measured at the full-half power switch red wire is 474ish. What should this be biased at?
> 
> 
> Thanks!



You are doing it right. Just remember the left trimpot adjusts the right pin voltage.

The pins are connected to a 1-ohm precision resistor, and if you measure the difference between both sides of the resistor while powered up, you can get a reading in the millivolt range. This method is called the 'shunt' method, where the resistor acts as the shunt. The difference in voltage directly translates into milliamps. If you used a 10-ohm resistor, the reading would be a factor of 10.

Bias on the DSL40c is 39ma +/- 5%. (I set mine at 40ma...) 31ma-47ma range.
Here is a link to a bias calculator, use at your own risk.
Weber Bias Calculator

All of this is documented previously in this thread...


----------



## Dizzyg12

Micky said:


> You are doing it right. Just remember the left trimpot adjusts the right pin voltage.
> 
> The pins are connected to a 1-ohm precision resistor, and if you measure the difference between both sides of the resistor while powered up, you can get a reading in the millivolt range. This method is called the 'shunt' method, where the resistor acts as the shunt. The difference in voltage directly translates into milliamps. If you used a 10-ohm resistor, the reading would be a factor of 10.
> 
> Bias on the DSL40c is 39ma +/- 5%. (I set mine at 40ma...) 31ma-47ma range.
> Here is a link to a bias calculator, use at your own risk.
> Weber Bias Calculator
> 
> All of this is documented previously in this thread...




Cool so I'm all good then. Internet is a wonderful thing! 

The v30 is an incredible improvement by the way!

Now if I can just figure out how to get rid of the Christmas music coming through the ultra lead 2 on high gain I'll be set.


----------



## Micky

Dizzyg12 said:


> Cool so I'm all good then. Internet is a wonderful thing!
> 
> The v30 is an incredible improvement by the way!
> 
> Now if I can just figure out how to get rid of the Christmas music coming through the ultra lead 2 on high gain I'll be set.



Check some other posts, but I have heard that if you attach a 5nf cap from the signal input to ground it may eliminate that.

I have other ways as well...


----------



## Dizzyg12

Micky said:


> Check some other posts, but I have heard that if you attach a 5nf cap from the signal input to ground it may eliminate that.
> 
> I have other ways as well...



All ears! I'm pretty sure it's the wiring in my house and the fact that I have. Power line running through my yard with a big transformer. The tree out back has been struck by lighting few times. 

It's non existent some days and very clear others. 

I don't really want to solder anything on the amp just yet.


----------



## Micky

Next thing to try is different lengths instrument cables.
That is, if it ONLY happens while amp is connected to a guitar.

If it happens with nothing plugged in you may need to solder...

After that you can try a clamp-on choke:


----------



## MarshallDog

For those of you with questions about biasing, just setting the bias to some value is not the safest method. You really need to know the voltage the tubes are running at. Then because *P=I*V where P=Power, I=Bias Current in mA and V=Voltage,* you can safely calculate the proper bias current. Most forums and tech notes will say the safe limit to bias EL34's is at 70% of max dissipation which is 70% of 25W (each EL34 can handle 25W's) or 17.5W so the formula is then *17.5/Voltage=Bias Current (mA)*. Some players I know bias the tubes as hot as they can get them because they say the sound is amazing but they also realize they will be burning up the tubes in a few months or weeks depending on how often they play. Just in case it may help anyone out and extend their tube life. For me I use the Weber BiasRite Meter and love it. It measures the current and voltage with the flip of a switch and I use the 70% rule.


----------



## Dizzyg12

Micky said:


> Next thing to try is different lengths instrument cables.
> That is, if it ONLY happens while amp is connected to a guitar.
> 
> If it happens with nothing plugged in you may need to solder...
> 
> After that you can try a clamp-on choke:



Only happens when guitar is plugged in. I'll try Better cables and see if that gets me anywhere. I just have the cheap live wires right now


----------



## Micky

It is not that LiveWires are cheap, not by any means, but just try different LENGTHS at first. It is like you are plugging an antenna into your amp, tuned to a specific frequency. Sometimes a difference of a foot or two will make all the difference in the world...

Unless the music is being injected at some other point.

If it is coming thru the AC line as you have suspected, you may need a choke for the AC power cord. They make them as well, just that they are bigger and possibly more expensive:


----------



## Dizzyg12

Micky said:


> It is not that LiveWires are cheap, not by any means, but just try different LENGTHS at first. It is like you are plugging an antenna into your amp, tuned to a specific frequency. Sometimes a difference of a foot or two will make all the difference in the world...
> 
> Unless the music is being injected at some other point.
> 
> If it is coming thru the AC line as you have suspected, you may need a choke for the AC power cord. They make them as well, just that they are bigger and possibly more expensive:



Good to know - I will definitely experiment with different cables and these chokes. I use a monster brand power strip with some kind of filtering on it mostly for my cable feed. I know they make power strips with rfi/Emi filters. Do you have any experience with them?


----------



## Dizzyg12

Hmmmm a quick cable check just straight into the amp with both my guitars and no radio just normal hug gain hiss. Checking pedals one at a time and it looks like the radio is being picked up by the tubescreamer ts808 I just added. The wah still gets some but that's not usual for wah pedals. I'm honestly not super impressed with the ts, I might just return it and get something else. I tried a smart gate after the ts and it got rid of most of the problem but it actually created a lot of feedback there.


----------



## guitarman3001

Ok, I couldn't deal with the 70/80 speaker so I put in the WGS Liberator I have. Big difference. Takes out most of that high end fizz even at low volumes. If anyone is considering swapping speakers, look into the Liberator.


----------



## MarshallDog

guitarman3001 said:


> Ok, I couldn't deal with the 70/80 speaker so I put in the WGS Liberator I have. Big difference. Takes out most of that high end fizz even at low volumes. If anyone is considering swapping speakers, look into the Liberator.



I once dated a hot chick who had a liberator and it wasn't a speaker, ha, ha!!!


----------



## Micky

guitarman3001 said:


> Ok, I couldn't deal with the 70/80 speaker so I put in the WGS Liberator I have. Big difference. Takes out most of that high end fizz even at low volumes. If anyone is considering swapping speakers, look into the Liberator.



How does the Reaper compare to the Liberator?


----------



## guitarman3001

Micky said:


> How does the Reaper compare to the Liberator?



Well, the Reaper is rated at 30 watts so I didn't really consider that one but based on the sound clips on their site, the Liberator's mids sounded more to my liking. To me it sounded a little punchier. 

They do have a Reaper HP which is rated at 50 watts but to me it sounded a little more scooped than the Liberator and scooped is not what I'm looking for out of this amp.


----------



## Dizzyg12

I put the vintage 30 in today and it's way better. No more ice pick highs....way more bass response. I have to tweak the eq some more but I'm loving it so far.


----------



## Micky

Dizzyg12 said:


> I put the vintage 30 in today and it's way better. No more ice pick highs....way more bass response. I have to tweak the eq some more but I'm loving it so far.



That is the same way I felt when I put in my Eminence Texas Heat.

Made that amp come alive!


----------



## guitarman3001

Sounds like pretty much any decent speaker is an improvement over the 70/80. Strangely enough, I have an Ampeg GVT15 combo that also came with a 70/80 and it sounds fantastic in that amp.


----------



## Micky

The Seventy/80 sounds great in my '77 Princeton Reverb. I will bet it sounds great in a closed-back cab as well.


----------



## JEB

After I removed C19, and once it broke in, the 70/80 didn't sound that harsh to me. The weird thing is, the Celestion Gold I put in it seems to be much brighter than the 70/80, but none of the ice-pickiness returned. I didn't realize how muddy the 70/80 sounded until I changed it out.


----------



## Drakonerius

Hello Everyone!,

I'm new here and also new with DSL 40c, I have a little problem about how the ohm works... I've been searching A LOT about the idea of connecting an extra Extension Cab to the amplifier but I don't want to waste the actual speaker, I bought a 1x12 Marshall 8 ohm cab, and a 8 ohm speaker to replace the one in the amp (since the one on the amp is 16 ohm), now searching I saw that instead I need 2 16 ohm speakers instead of 2 8 ohm speaker if I want to connect them together is that correct?.

I thought that since the outputs say 8 ohm each I needed to connect an 8 ohm speaker. I'm so confused!! 

I thank you in advance for your help about this matter!

Drakonerius
Drakonerius | The Official Site | Home


----------



## Micky

You are correct.
You can connect a single 16-ohm speaker to the 16-ohm jack.

You can connect two 16-ohm speakers to the two 8-ohm jacks.
(2 X 16 ohm speakers in parallel = 8 ohms)

You can connect a single 8-ohm speaker to one of the 8-ohm jacks.
(1 X 8 ohm speaker = 8-ohms)

Hope this helps.


----------



## Drakonerius

Micky said:


> You are correct.
> You can connect a single 16-ohm speaker to the 16-ohm jack.
> 
> You can connect two 16-ohm speakers to the two 8-ohm jacks.
> (2 X 16 ohm speakers in parallel = 8 ohms)
> 
> You can connect a single 8-ohm speaker to one of the 8-ohm jacks.
> (1 X 8 ohm speaker = 8-ohms)
> 
> Hope this helps.



Ahh ok,

Thanks a lot!, God! I bought a (8 ohm) Celestion thinking that i needed 2 - 8 ohm instead of 2 - 16 ohm 

This helped me a lot!

Drakonerius | The Official Site | Home


----------



## Coronado

Dizzyg12 said:


> Hmmmm a quick cable check just straight into the amp with both my guitars and no radio just normal hug gain hiss. Checking pedals one at a time and it looks like the radio is being picked up by the tubescreamer ts808 I just added. The wah still gets some but that's not usual for wah pedals. I'm honestly not super impressed with the ts, I might just return it and get something else. I tried a smart gate after the ts and it got rid of most of the problem but it actually created a lot of feedback there.


 
So its safe to say the TS808 is the most festive pedal? hee hee...


----------



## Coronado

My DSL40 is off to the Tech today for some elective surgery. I was talking to Marty and he thinks that terrible hum is due to a bad power tube. Sounds like the speaker is busted - just sounds really bad on the clean channel. Hoping it’s just the power tubes. I tried switching out the preamp tubes from my JCM800, but it didn’t fix the problem. Sucks if its the power tubes since the amp is only a couple months old.

The tech is putting in a V30, doing the C19 mod, and any other overall component upgrades the tech recommends (not really to improve the sound, moreover anything to enhance the life of the amp). He did the same thing to my JCM800 last time (just added some parts that in time would probably wear out and need replacing anyway). 

Going to order a tube set from Marty today as well. He recommends either a Mullard or an Amperex in V1. The Mullard is more classic rock (more mid emphasis) and the Amperex is more modern rock (more upper mids emphasis). Then in V2 he recommends a Raytheon Black Plate and a Sylvania Gray Plate in V3.


----------



## Micky

That is the same setup I have in my 40, and I gotta admit, it sounds pretty sweet.

Hope your rig comes back real quiet!


----------



## Dizzyg12

Coronado said:


> So its safe to say the TS808 is the most festive pedal? hee hee...



Who needs carolers now? I have the ghost of Scrooge mcDuck in my amp.


----------



## Coronado

Dizzyg12 said:


> Who needs carolers now? I have the ghost of Scrooge mcDuck in my amp.


 
Right!? You're all set my friend!

PS - DAMN thats a nice looking guitar... WOW.


----------



## joebor1776

Just wanted to add another replacement speaker report. I originally replaced the 70/80 with a WGS Retro 30, and I played with that setup for the last year. It sounds great. Still a bit bright though...had treble turned down almost all the way (and Presence on 5). I just put in a used, broken-in WGS Reaper (it's 8 ohms, so I'm plugging into one of the 8-ohm jacks now). It sounds fantastic. Definitely darker (I now have the treble on 4 or 5), and it has more breakup, maybe because it's a 30-watt speaker? I've never owned a Greenback, but this seems to have a bit of that sort of sound based on demos of GBs that I've heard.

Anyway, I'm keeping it in and will play with it for the next year and see how it goes. BTW, the 70/80 happens to sound great in my Fender Blues Jr.


----------



## Dizzyg12

Coronado said:


> Right!? You're all set my friend!
> 
> PS - DAMN thats a nice looking guitar... WOW.



Thanks....it's even purtier in person.


----------



## Micky

joebor1776 said:


> BTW, the 70/80 happens to sound great in my Fender Blues Jr.



Isn't this kinda strange? I have said all along that my 70/80 sounds great in my Fender also! That particular speaker is a good speaker, it is just that it is a poor match for the DSL40c. I think it will do well in a closed-back cab also...

I wondered about the Reaper as well, someone mentioned a few posts ago about installing a Liberator, and they said the Reaper was a 30W speaker. I have reservations about an underpowered speaker in that application, but I imagine as long as you don't crank it the speaker should hold up. Keep us posted...


----------



## guitarman3001

Any thoughts on how sturdy the handle on these is? It doesn't seem to be quite as heavy duty as the handle on many of my other amps.


----------



## Micky

So far mine has been fine, but with an amp approaching 60 pounds I put side handles on anyway...


----------



## guitarman3001

Micky said:


> So far mine has been fine, but with an amp approaching 60 pounds I put side handles on anyway...



What kind of side handles? Are there any that don't require making large holes in the cab and are sturdy enough?


----------



## Micky

guitarman3001 said:


> What kind of side handles? Are there any that don't require making large holes in the cab and are sturdy enough?



I dunno about other handles, I cut bigass holes in the side of my cab for these:


----------



## MarshallDog

There was a discussion earlier on in this thread about the footswitch and it not having and needing the LED's to indicate the mode the amp was in. I stumbled onto this footswitch on ebay and was wondering if anyone knows about it or has tried it. It looks like high quality, just curious. Here is the ebay link.

Marshall DSL 40C 1x12 Replacement Footswitch Black Magic | eBay


----------



## guitarman3001

Looks pretty cool. Now if only someone would make a small single-button footswitch for it....


----------



## Micky

guitarman3001 said:


> Looks pretty cool. Now if only someone would make a small single-button footswitch for it....



I would like someone to build a single-button (channel) into an already existing overdrive pedal. Kinda like a 'slave' button that I could plug into the amp, or another amp, or anything I want...

Then I could have an overdrive AND a channel switch, and be able to switch either separately...


----------



## dave999z

MarshallDog said:


> There was a discussion earlier on in this thread about the footswitch and it not having and needing the LED's to indicate the mode the amp was in. I stumbled onto this footswitch on ebay and was wondering if anyone knows about it or has tried it. It looks like high quality, just curious. Here is the ebay link.
> 
> Marshall DSL 40C 1x12 Replacement Footswitch Black Magic | eBay



I wonder if the channel LED on this footswitch shows either green or red depending on the currently selected channel, or if it's just off when on the green channel and on when on the red channel. Can't find any info on "black magic" footswitches on the web, other than eBay listings.


----------



## mesamay2003

I have purchased footswitches from that seller before...top quality and a nice guy...he has other switches under the name rock doctor, switch doctor and a few others...the led's do not change color, they just turn on and off...I have one for my DSL 100 (JCM 2000 version)


----------



## Alton

Hey Micky, This may be relevant for those interested making the CH 1 clean to crunch and the CH 2 lead 1 to lead 2 work on a footswitch.

I have a Bugera V22 (Go ahead, I'll wait 'til you stop laughing...)
The Bugera has a mid switch to change the center frequency on the mid tone control. Like the DSL 40C it is NOT footswitchable.

Over at the TGP forum some guy came up with a mod to make it footswitchable. It occurred to me that this mod may work on the clean/crunch and lead 1/lead 2 on the DSL. A hole would have to be drilled in the rear of the chassis to accommodate a suitable connector (maybe a 5 pin midi connector or a 5 pin XLR?).

Anyway, here's the links to review to see if this kind of idea could would work in the DSL 40C:

Bugera V-22 Thread Part III - Page 56 - The Gear Page (see post #835)

Here's a slideshow (5 images) showing the changes:
Bugera V22 Slideshow by pbecker314 | Photobucket


----------



## rbnum1fan

This video is from last nites show. I really dig my Les Paul into my DSL40c. I used a Marshall Guv'nor pedal i have had sine the late 80's for a boost during the solo
Aw Nah - YouTube


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

Hello everyone. First time poster, but I've been lurking for a while now. I have owned my DSL40C since August and have followed this thread specifically since before I purchased it. I have owned Peavey, Vox, Fender, and even another Marshall(AVT100) before finally getting the DSL40C, and I must say it was the sound in my head. Tonight I took it apart and set the bias which I've never had to do on any of my other amps, but the reason I was able to do it, including the bias points, trim pots, proper dc voltages, etc, is because of this thread and you folks. I just wanted to say thank you to Micky, who started this thread and everyone who has added their insight on this amp. I hope that you more experienced folks will bear with me as I learn more about this amp, and Marshall's in general. 

Thanks again guys,

GWN


----------



## Rocktane

Welcome to the forum GWN! This site has been invaluable for me in the year or so I've been here. Glad you are diggin' your DSL!


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

Thanks very much Rocktane. Lots of knowledge to take in. I may be in trouble with the Missus with all the GAS this place is going to give me.


----------



## Studio270

Just ordered me a DSL40c and am pretty stoked. I've been using a Kemper for almost 2 years. Thought I'd try a Marshall.

Has anyone tried a G12T75 in the DSL40c ? I've got 2 from the 80's I thought I'll try one.

Anyway glad to be here.Thanks


----------



## Micky

Studio270 said:


> Has anyone tried a G12T75 in the DSL40c ? I've got 2 from the 80's I thought I'll try one.
> 
> Anyway glad to be here.Thanks



Should sound sweet!


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

Just a quick note. After I opened this amp up for the first I noticed that the components are TINY! You almost need a magnifying glass to even see the C19 cap. How in the world do you clip it, let alone unsolder it so that it can be replaced if the mod isn't to your liking? It looks like I'm going to have to get a much smaller soldering iron for that kind of delicate work. Having sausage fingers definitely isn't to my advantage either. I guess that's why a macro setting was needed for the pictures(nice pics by the way) earlier in the thread. I guess it wasn't such a quick note after all. 

GWN


----------



## MarshallDog

Greatwhitenorth said:


> Just a quick note. After I opened this amp up for the first I noticed that the components are TINY! You almost need a magnifying glass to even see the C19 cap. How in the world do you clip it, let alone unsolder it so that it can be replaced if the mod isn't to your liking? It looks like I'm going to have to get a much smaller soldering iron for that kind of delicate work. Having sausage fingers definitely isn't to my advantage either. I guess that's why a macro setting was needed for the pictures(nice pics by the way) earlier in the thread. I guess it wasn't such a quick note after all.
> 
> GWN



Small needle nose pliers, side cutters and a 45 Watt iron should do the trick, you just have to be careful and you can always gently push/bend any near by components to the side a bit to get to them easier. You can always re-solder it back in place (if you don't clip it) but it is a bit harder to do than removing it and I have found the easiest way is to simply remove the cap completely, clean and straighten the legs, clean the PCB board holes free from old solder and then re-solder it from the bottom side. You just don't want to force anything or totally over heat the PCB as you can damage a trace.


----------



## Skylarkpilot

Hi guys,
Just got my DSL40C yesterday and slowly getting to grips with her, one question though if I may.....
On the 'classic' gain there seems to be an absolutely huge drop in volume between crunch and clean. Is this normal ? or do I have a problem
By the way thanks for all the info, it's all your faults I bought this behemoth...........and so far thoroughly enjoying it.


----------



## DSMer

In regards to the stock Seventy 80 speaker, it's not a bad piece at all. You'll be surprised once it's broken in.


----------



## Classicplayer

It might be my first Marshall. I honestly cannot think of any Marshall that would be in the running for my needs. What is the overall wight of the amp and what tones do the 20watt mode produc?

Classicplayer


----------



## MarshallDog

Skylarkpilot said:


> Hi guys,
> Just got my DSL40C yesterday and slowly getting to grips with her, one question though if I may.....
> On the 'classic' gain there seems to be an absolutely huge drop in volume between crunch and clean. Is this normal ? or do I have a problem
> By the way thanks for all the info, it's all your faults I bought this behemoth...........and so far thoroughly enjoying it.



Yes that is normal, I believe it is because in Crunch there is one or more gain stages boosting the signal. It is the same on mine.


----------



## MarshallDog

Classicplayer said:


> It might be my first Marshall. I honestly cannot think of any Marshall that would be in the running for my needs. What is the overall wight of the amp and what tones do the 20watt mode produc?
> 
> Classicplayer



Mine boxed up had a shipping wt of 63.9 lbs. As for the tone available in the 20 W mode, I would describe it as the very close to the same as in the 40 W mode with more break up due to the tubes reaching saturation earlier as you turn up the volume, if that makes sense, kind of hard to describe it but I LOVE IT!!!


----------



## Micky

DSMer said:


> In regards to the stock Seventy 80 speaker, it's not a bad piece at all. You'll be surprised once it's broken in.



I love it in my '77 Princeton Reverb...


----------



## Micky

Classicplayer said:


> It might be my first Marshall. I honestly cannot think of any Marshall that would be in the running for my needs. What is the overall weight of the amp and what tones do the 20watt mode produce?
> 
> Classicplayer



After modifying mine with a different speaker and choke it comes in at 57 pounds.

Produces the same tones in both modes. One has a little less volume and less clean headroom.


----------



## MarshallDog

Micky said:


> After modifying mine with a different speaker and choke it comes in at 57 pounds.
> 
> Produces the same tones in both modes. One has a little less volume and less clean headroom.



Micky, ever think about upgrading the OT to a Classic Tone? I am thinking about it which means in about 4-8 weeks I'll be doing it. Just wondering.

BTW, I have experimented a lot with different cap values in C19 & C4 slots and I must say that I think I like a 5 pF cap in both! Why, it makes the Ultra Channel come to life a bit more and with a 5 pF in C4, it makes the Chrunch Channel sound excellent and like the little brother to the Ultra Channel. They both sound closer to each other now its like the Ultra channel has a serious OD pedal in front of it. It just sounds so good that I find I am not playing my JVM or JMP as much anymore and that is scary but good IMO especially for a 700.00 amp that I only paid 600.00.


----------



## Micky

I was gonna upgrade the OT, but I wanted to see how it sounded with everything I have done first. Got a WGS V30 on the way, will try that before I do anything else. 

Surprisingly I don't wanna upgrade the OT for the normal reasons... I want it for the 4-ohm output...


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

Micky said:


> I was gonna upgrade the OT, but I wanted to see how it sounded with everything I have done first. Got a WGS V30 on the way, will try that before I do anything else.
> 
> Surprisingly I don't wanna upgrade the OT for the normal reasons... I want it for the 4-ohm output...



I'm very interested to hear your thoughts on the WGS V30. I've looked to see what it would cost including shipping and I can get a Celestion V30 for close to the same price. Cross boarder shipping on guitar related gear(among other things) is sometimes cost prohibitive. It's one of the only disadvantages to living in Canada.


----------



## Skylarkpilot

MarshallDog said:


> Yes that is normal, I believe it is because in Crunch there is one or more gain stages boosting the signal. It is the same on mine.



Thanks for that. Being fresh out of the box I wasn't quite sure.


----------



## Micky

Greatwhitenorth said:


> I'm very interested to hear your thoughts on the WGS V30. I've looked to see what it would cost including shipping and I can get a Celestion V30 for close to the same price. Cross boarder shipping on guitar related gear(among other things) is sometimes cost prohibitive. It's one of the only disadvantages to living in Canada.



Yeah, I will post the review here once I get the speaker. Still on backorder at MF, I cannot believe the price I paid! I guess being made in America does have a few advantages for Americans.

And I can think of a LOT of disadvantages of living in Canada, here in VT we are real close to all the hosers in Montreal, and every summer they tend to invade the Green Mountains. They insist on speaking French, and most want mayo or gravy on their fries...

But on the other side of the country, things are vastly different! And now that the loonie is worth more, things are looking up! I'd live there if it wasn't so damned cold...


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

The hoser thing made me laugh. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy gravy on my fries too.


----------



## Micky

I hope I have not offended any of our Canadian members here!

All I can think of is Bob & Doug MacKenzie...


----------



## saxon68

Eh?


----------



## DSMer

Our beer is stronger!!!


----------



## Micky

I used to drive to the border store in Rouses Point, NY to get Molson XXX.
That shit is STRONG!


----------



## Skylarkpilot

Hi guys,
I wonder if anybody could talk me through re-seating the reverb chip. My dsl40c arrived here in Sweden a few days ago and I cannot for the life of me hear any difference with reverb all up or all down on either channel. It would appear it's had a bumpy ride from the UK from all the holes in the cardboard box. I believe I read somewhere that someone else had a similar problem and re-seated the reverb chip and the reverb sprang into life.
Anyone help ?.........


----------



## Micky

You cannot reseat the reverb chip itself, it is directly soldered to the board as you can see in the photo below. You CAN reseat the whole board though, as the effects board is a daughtercard to the main PCB. It is held on with nylon standoffs and possibly a screw or two.

This is not a task for the inexperienced. Please remember there are lethal voltages inside a tube amplifier and the appropriate caution is in order...


----------



## wangchung

Gentlemen; I have traded my DSL15H for a 40c. For my classic/hard rock purposes, the bright cap was a problem. I had been down this road before so.........
1st. to go was the 70/80. Then the 12ax7 collection got a workout.
Little luck there, so I clipped C19. Ah! Treble and presence controls now usable, But!
overall somewhat lacking in "shimmery". Since the mids and lows were workable, I went for those sounds first, using the speakers at hand. 2 vin. 30's, one 8 the other 16 ohms, a G12T75 16ohm, a Weber G1230/55 16ohm, a Mesa Black Shadow MC90
in 8ohms, a British mfr. G12M in 16ohms, an old Crate E12 16ohm, an old G12L35, and
last, a 70's CTS 12 with the sq. magnet in 8ohms.(My hope was to get Fendery
sounds out of the crunch channel, and Marshall sounds from lead 1) These cones were tried in the 40c cab, and in various combinations using semi-open back 1x12,
the 40c cab and a MDX JCM900 1936 cab. I made a chart to sort it out, and it took
me 5 days. But hey, I'm re-tired. I got tired werkin', then I got retired.
When I got promising results from the cones, I started rolling preamp tubes. As that
progressed, I charted that too. I have emailed Marshall support to confirm my observations as to what tube half does what, but I wound up with pretty much what
I thought I would.
With the afore mentioned goal of '65 deluxe cleans/crunch and the Reverend Billy G.
Eliminator/Afterburner tones from lead 1, the end result was a 16ohm Vin.30 in the
40c cab, sitting on top of a 16ohm G12T-75 in the semi-open back 1x12 cab. Preamp
tubes are a JJ83 in V1, an original issue GT12ax7M in V2, a stock Sino-Marsh. 12ax7
in V3, and an original issue Sovtek 12ax7LP in V4. This is quite similar to the tubes in
my 1st. production run 2000 DSL50. I rolled power tubes last in an effort to enhance the mid crunch on the clean/crunch channel, and low end in general. My selection was limited to the stock Sino TAD's, the older 90's =C='s out of my 50watt head, and a matched pair of 90's Svetlanas.
Surprisingly, the stock Sino's were a lot like the =C='s. The Svet's had the most
granular mid crunch, to the extent of blurring in fact on the lead 1 channel. I ran it
with the stock Sino's at rehearsal last night, but I've got a bias socket and a matched
set of the new Tung-Sol 34B's on the way as well as 2 new Tung-Sol 12ax7's.
So I'm at about 80% of my goal for tones out of this amp.
The signal chain driving this madness is one of the 1st. new chambered Les Paul
studio 50's tributes, modified from P90's with a Dimarzio BluesBucker in the neck,
a Dim. ToneZone in the bridge, 500k CTS pots, .047 ceramic cap on the bridge, and
a .022 ceramic cap on the neck, "modern" wiring. The neck vol. pot. also has a .001cap+150k resistor across the legs treble bleed circut. The guitar has a locked-zinc tailpiece and grovers on it. I use D'Addario 9.5's These mili-volts pass through an original issue Korg TU10(?), a 2nd generation Visual sound Rt.66 pedal,
(the compressor being used as a clean boost/presence on rhythm and the TS808
and guitar vol. for crunch rhytms and bluesy leads on the clean/crunch 40c chann.)
a POG, MXR micro-chorus, Exotic SP compressor, and an original EH small clone with
a pot-rate mod.. In the loop I have a full size EH Holy Grail Reverb feeding a Love-
Pedal Gen5 Delay. BTW, the first thing I did with this amp was plug those 2 pedals
in the loop and hit the lead channel to see if they'd leave the building like they did
with the drive channel in the JCA22H head I had for a while. They played well with
the 40c, so I proceeded with the madness chronicled above. Had they not, it would
have been a deal breaker.
So, last night at rehearsal the settings I wound up with were gain and vol both around 10-11 o'clock with crunch engaged on the clean/crunch channel, and gain around 1-2 o'clock and vol around 10-11 o'clock on the ultra channel. Full power tube
power. Small-Med. sized Club-loud, with the drummer hittin' pretty hard.
Left-overs: I read all I could find on the web about C19 on this amp. I ordered 68pf,
100pf and 150pf, 100volt caps for more Tom-foolery should I feel it necassary to get
that "shimmer" back. Several pedal combinations did result in audible chime/shimmer
popping out here and there tho so that's real close. The last tweak Will be to balance
the bottom between the 2 channels. I'm going to wait and try the Tung-sol 34's (with a re-bias, I might try the Svets again and see if they were out of bias too) and the
Tung-Sol 12ax7's in V1 & V2, and hope they get me that last ounce of Fendery shimmer and balance the bass a little better between the channels before I pull the chassis and plug in the iron.
I do remember reading here somewhere that the 68pf did that for someone.....
If I can just find that post again..................... 
Oh ya! The Marshall tech with the triode functions to define/verify too.
(The text editor trashed my format, excuse please........)


----------



## Dizzyg12

Thoughts or opinions on this issue? I started to experience a great deal of feedback on amp when using my Active EMG equipped PRS guitar. It was so bad that even with a smart gate some feedback still made it through. I tried the guitar with my blackstar AMP and had some feedback though not nearly as bad (and of course the blackstar is not as high gain as the dsl). After tearing apart my (thankfully solderless) EMG pickup connections and checking other pots and switches, I deduced that everything in the guitar seemed OK. So I checked my LP in the DSL and was getting some feedback on that as well, even with the lower out put classic 57's pickups. Probably should have done this before tearing apart the PRS but in any case I moved forward with checking each pre amp tube by swapping with a known good JJ. Moving from input side to power tube side, I swapped each one and the issue remained until I got to #3. When I switched that one, the feedback was much better but still present. Now I can turn guitar vol up to 8 or so before I get feedback. Before I got it it at a little less than half way. Continuing on I checked #4 and that didn't make any difference. So I would appear that the tube in spot #3 was the culprit. The amp is less noisy overall as well.

So after my long winded story, my question is what are the thoughts on mismatched pre-amp tubes? They are all ECC83 but the misfit is the new JJ I dropped in, or were they all marshall logoed JJ's to begin with? 


On a side note the blackstar took a long time to heat up and make sound....a good 3-5 minutes before I got anything out of it. This thing is a piece of shit honestly. I'm going to trade it in on a new guitar (eyeing the PRS Tremonti SE). 

enjoy the weekend fellas!


----------



## Micky

V3 is the tone stack section, so it makes sense that changing that tube would make a difference. Mismatched preamp tubes is the name of the game! Glad you found a combination that works for you.


----------



## Micky

Wangchung - I would have kept both amps if I could afford it...
Now I have a DSL5c as well as the 40c, and both are great.

It would be nice if you could post your speaker results, even in list form it would be informative. Also check MartyStrat54's speaker thread, lots of great info there.


----------



## Studio270

wangchung that's a lot of work. I just got a dsl40 I also have some G12T75 speakers from the 80's. How did they sound in the amp? I'll be trying them this weekend. And do the bright cap mod.


----------



## Dizzyg12

Studio270 said:


> wangchung that's a lot of work. I just got a dsl40 I also have some G12T75 speakers from the 80's. How did they sound in the amp? I'll be trying them this weekend. And do the bright cap mod.



A lot of work indeed!


----------



## wangchung

Guys! Unfortunately the list was for checking off which ones and combinations had been tested, not for sonic properties per se. The
tones I was looking for were the clean/crunch of a '65 deluxe reverb
on channel 1, and a mid/upper mid growl for "polyphonic" chord forms,
with chimey, shimmering harmonics on the unwound strings while playing
"leads", especially C and above, (that weren't brittle and could be rolled off with the tone control if desired)for channel 2.. I knew the Vin.30 would be in the mix going in, but the G12T75 was a surprise. It really was key to the
fendery tones, as my impression of it is somewhat mid-scooped compared to the V30. I think they were voiced that way, "modern" for the 900's.
It was also the only spkr not "broken in" so to speak. A pair of
them came in the 1936 cab, which was in exellent condition and apparently
had never been subjected to enough watts long enough to loosen up. The
G12T was also the only one I had in 16ohms that didn't overpower the V30
in the upper cab. I did try the 8ohm V30 in the 40c cab with the Mesa MC90 in the bottom cab, but the MC90 was too much for the V30. That
spkr, a 90's BlackShadow MC90 is a jewel. It's been in several Line 6 Flextones that I used for just the Blackface and JCM800 models, and it
did them both brilliantly. Soft upper Lead harmonics all over the place.
It did what was asked of it, amazing versatility. It sounded great by itself
in the 40c cab too. I've read that it's the same as the Celestion lead 80,
but i've not had the chance to compare. I have a cable that puts 2 inputs in series, and that's what I used to run the 8ohm V30 and the 8ohm MC90
off the 16ohm tap of the 40c. I plan on putting the other G12T in a
cab here at the house and "breaking it in" while I practice. After it breathes a bit I plan on trying it in the 40c cab out of curiosity, with the
other one in the ext. cab. Who know? Maybe the Tug-Sols will get me
those soft upper harmonics consistently. I'll call it a day with the V30 and
the G12T if that happens. Or maybe the Svet 34's properly biased will
yield the grind on my 2 string chords while in ultra gain mode with both
G12T's attached. Oh! I forgot to mention the G12M's. Not enough bottom
in these open back/semi open back cabs.
The reason I ditched the DSL20H was that the ultra channel was that it
has the 2 circuts I don't use on the DSL, clean and insane gain. Also no
loop, and the ultra gain amplified the delay and reverb to unusable along
with everything else. The tube saga for that thing was also a week long
affair, the end result of which was using the JJ reverse wired 12DW7 in 
V3. Apparently the V3 has a similar triode arrangement to the Mesa DC V1.
The name of which escapes me but it is mentioned on the JJ website.
It made the gain on the lead channel manageable and sounded good,
but I couldn't use it because of the bad play with my effects with that
channel. Let me look that up on Eurotubes.......ah, that tube is the
ECC823. Yea, they say the V1 slot of the Mesa DC series. But after rolling
a JJ 5751 and a stock 12DW7 in the first 3 holes of the DSL20H, I can
safely say that it's half of V3 causing the mayhem. The reverse wired
12DW7 that JJ makes puts the 12AU7 half in the ultra gain cascade
slot. So, trick there. Hey I live for this sh_t, don't Y'all?
My backup amp is The brain of an ancient Crate Vintage Club 20 that I moved the AC transformer up on top with everything else, and made a
mini-Marshall head cab for. It has 8 and 16 ohm taps and sounds great
with sovtek EL84's and 12AX7WB's. And it's no bigger than an old-school
lunch box. Way under rated master vol amp. Don't leave home without it.


----------



## wangchung

Studio270! Don't be impatient with the C19 clip mod. I read here a post by someone who did it, and their immediate impression was sparkle gone.
I had the same results. BuT! I too the next day, decided it wasn't
a bad thing, and could probably get it back by rolling tubes and playing
musical speakers. The G12T and the right bottles in V1 & V2 may make it
acceptable unless you run your gain and vol pegged, which is probably
why the bright cap is in there. To make notes discernable thru the mush
resulting from dime-ing everything. Like I said in my initial post tho, there
could be just a tad more shimmer on both channels, and the bass could
be a bit tamer on the ultra gain channel. I'm hoping the Tung-Sols will
do it given the global nature of it all. Thinking more about it, I might try
some other tube in V1 that gives me fuller bottom on the clean channel
without having to turn up the resonance and bass as much. Some thing
with a little less gain would give me more headroom on the clean/crunch
channel and I might be able to get the gain and vol higher on that
channel giving more power to the low end before the crunch exceeds
my usability. I don't think it would effect the basic tone of channel 2
that much if it's a quality tube, and the fact that you slam it with
yet another hi-gain triode when you hit the button.......
The object I suppose, for me anyway, is to work with the sonic variables given, tubes, spkrs. and coax the circut design into what you hear in
your head with as little modification as possible.
That being said, those caps I got from radio shack to modify the C19 function are there on the bench. I'd rather not have to use them tho.
Good hunting.......


----------



## Skylarkpilot

Micky said:


> You cannot reseat the reverb chip itself, it is directly soldered to the board as you can see in the photo below. You CAN reseat the whole board though, as the effects board is a daughtercard to the main PCB. It is held on with nylon standoffs and possibly a screw or two.
> 
> This is not a task for the inexperienced. Please remember there are lethal voltages inside a tube amplifier and the appropriate caution is in order...



Ok, thanks Micky. I guess I'll get them to send me a new one then.....after all it is under warranty so why should I zap myself tinkering with it.


----------



## Micky

If you got it new there is a 5-year warranty attached.
Contact Marshall USA or the original seller for details on replacement.

I am sure you will be fine...


----------



## caiokiss

I decided to make some upgrades on my amp, I'm going to change the speaker and tubes. For the speaker I decided to use the G12M-65 creamback, but I have no idea what to use for the tubes. Any recommendations?

Mullards? JJ? Tung-sol?

I want something simple (same brand in all positions) and not very expensive (it doesn't need to be NOS). 

Thanks.


----------



## Micky

As far as tubes are concerned, my choices are listed earlier in this thread.
I am a big fan of TAD EL34b STR in the power stage, and NOS stuff in the preamp.
CP preamp stuff you can't go wrong with Mullard in V1, just make sure you choose some good sturdy tubes for the rest.

Try some different ones and report back...


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

Did anyone put the V30 or WGS Vet 30 in their amps? I'm still trying to decide whether I'm going to change out my Seventy/80 or not. Some days it sounds pretty good and others I find it, as others have called it, Fizzy.


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

caiokiss said:


> I decided to make some upgrades on my amp, I'm going to change the speaker and tubes. For the speaker I decided to use the G12M-65 creamback, but I have no idea what to use for the tubes. Any recommendations?
> 
> Mullards? JJ? Tung-sol?
> 
> I want something simple (same brand in all positions) and not very expensive (it doesn't need to be NOS).
> 
> Thanks.



Please report back on the Creamback. I'm still deciding on a speaker.

Thanks,


----------



## Rocktane

Tubes? NOS in the preamp section. See MartyStrat54, he can get you EXACTLY what works best with the DSL. Power tubes, current production works just fine. I would suggest selecting and installing your speaker upgrade first, then get the tubes to fine tune your tone.


----------



## Dizzyg12

Greatwhitenorth said:


> Did anyone put the V30 or WGS Vet 30 in their amps? I'm still trying to decide whether I'm going to change out my Seventy/80 or not. Some days it sounds pretty good and others I find it, as others have called it, Fizzy.




Still breaking it in, but I love the v30 in mine. Deeper bass response for sure. No more harshness of the 70/80. I find the eq more effective now.


----------



## DSMer

caiokiss said:


> I decided to make some upgrades on my amp, I'm going to change the speaker and tubes. For the speaker I decided to use the G12M-65 creamback, but I have no idea what to use for the tubes. Any recommendations?
> 
> Mullards? JJ? Tung-sol?
> 
> I want something simple (same brand in all positions) and not very expensive (it doesn't need to be NOS).
> 
> Thanks.


 
I'm not very fond of the Marshall branded Shuguangs that come with the amp due to its scooped mids. Don't get me wrong..they're pretty good sounding tubes (great tubes for metal IMHO) but since I'm a classic rock player I very much love the sweet midrange I get from SED Winged =C= EL34's.

V1 - Tung-Sol 12AX7
V2 - Tung-Sol 12AX7
V3 - ECC83 (Chinese, not stock JJ ECC83)
V4 - SOVTEK 12AX7LPS

V3 is the tone stack and cathode follower tube. Russian 12AX7's won't last here.


----------



## Micky

The Marshall-branded tubes that came with my DSL40c are my primary spares.
While they work well, and are basically new, I prefer the TAD's for the power section because they seemingly 'woke-up' my reverb on this amp.

I keep them as spares in case I ever want to sell the amp, so I can put it back to factory stock...


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

Are all of the stock preamp tubes exactly the same?


----------



## Micky

Greatwhitenorth said:


> Are all of the stock preamp tubes exactly the same?



Yes, it appears as though the OEM Marshall-branded tubes are alike.
I have photos of them earlier in this thread.


----------



## Rocktane

I was under the impression that the red labeled preamp tubes were JJ, and the white labels were Shuguang. My DSL100H came a red V1 and the rest were white labeled. The red one died in about the first 2 weeks.


----------



## caiokiss

Micky said:


> As far as tubes are concerned, my choices are listed earlier in this thread.
> I am a big fan of TAD EL34b STR in the power stage, and NOS stuff in the preamp.
> CP preamp stuff you can't go wrong with Mullard in V1, just make sure you choose some good sturdy tubes for the rest.
> 
> Try some different ones and report back...



The problem is that I won't have the chance to try different ones. Tubes are expensive and hard to find here in my country, but I'm goinig to USA in a month, so I'll take the opportunity to buy the tubes and speaker there (celestion speakers are just impossible to find here). 

So, it would have to be something simple and easy to find, like something that I could find in a guitarcenter store... I can find current production Mullard and JJ in a Guitarcenter, right?


----------



## Dizzyg12

caiokiss said:


> The problem is that I won't have the chance to try different ones. Tubes are expensive and hard to find here in my country, but I'm goinig to USA in a month, so I'll take the opportunity to buy the tubes and speaker there (celestion speakers are just impossible to find here).
> 
> So, it would have to be something simple and easy to find, like something that I could find in a guitarcenter store... I can find current production Mullard and JJ in a Guitarcenter, right?



My local GC usually only has groove tubes. There's another smaller 2 store chain that typically has a variety, but GC doesn't keep much in store. I order tubes online.


----------



## kingbee

I tried a set of Winged "C" power tubes. IMHO, the stock power tubes sound very similar but have a little bit more compression. Did not notice any "scooped" sound. I put the stock power tubes back in and stored my winged "c" set since they're not made anymore. I have an EH 12AX7 in V1 and penta 12AX7's from Doug's Tubes for the rest. Vintage 30 speaker. Great sound. Sounds very close to my JCM2000 DSL50.


----------



## DSMer

Rocktane said:


> I was under the impression that the red labeled preamp tubes were JJ, and the white labels were Shuguang. My DSL100H came a red V1 and the rest were white labeled. The red one died in about the first 2 weeks.



That's correct. My JVM 410HJS came with the same preamp tubes configuration.


----------



## Studio270

Well I took C19 out of the circuit. And I put the G12T75 in... I do not like that speaker in this combo. I had them in a 2x12 and it sounded great. I put the 70/80 back in and it sounds much better.

I running my gain on 6 or 7 and it's to buzzy or fizzy. I guess I'll try some tubes next. Man are they pricey on Ebay.


----------



## broomy

So, bought a DSL40c, after 10 years of playing an AVT50. Loved it, very bright (I had treble on 0 and it was still piercing, maybe the speaker will wear in...) and very loud, even on 20w setting. Lovely valve tones, people are right, the shared EQ doesn't help channel switching but I find keeping the gain back on the clean/crunch keeps the boomy-ness down so it matches up with the harshness of the OD. Again, maybe the speaker will wear into all of this...?

Anyway, after a week I decided to plug in my 1x12 AVT cab. (I turned amp off, disconnected 16ohm int speaker and connected mine to 8ohm jack, as instructed by marshall. with a speaker lead. a good one) Disaster, all sound went. Power still on but no noise. I turned the amp off, reconnected the int speaker, waited half an hour and tried again....it worked!!!??? Tried cab again- it worked!!!!

Week later after 2 successful jams with the bands and a few hours use at home, i'm rocking out I tread on the reverb switch and again, all sound gone! and no channel switching!!!!

The amp is now boxed up waiting to be exchanged for a new one tomorrow- 2 faults in 2 weeks not a good sign! really hope this was a one off cos I love the amp, I guess tomorrow I will find out!!

Any thoughts or opinions welcome


----------



## Micky

My dad used to say, 'Hard tellin', not knowin'...' so it is difficult to diagnose now that you have it all boxed up.

I would suspect a cabling issue, but there is a chance that something internal is intermittent. These types of failures are difficult to diagnose when you have the amp in front of you, say nothing of trying to do it over the Internet. Report back here if you can when it is sorted out...


----------



## Pumpkin88

I don't know if this is a real problem or not but I've noticed the amp making a ticking sound at certain frequencies (low frequencies). The ticking seems to be coming from the head because when I hold my hand to it it stops. I tried tightening all the screws but they're all pretty tight. Should I be worried or are these vibrating noises common with combo amps?


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Broomy, if the new one works for you, do the C19 vasectomy, it really tames that treble and makes the shared EQ usable.


----------



## MarshallDog

Studio270 said:


> Well I took C19 out of the circuit. And I put the G12T75 in... I do not like that speaker in this combo. I had them in a 2x12 and it sounded great. I put the 70/80 back in and it sounds much better.
> 
> I running my gain on 6 or 7 and it's to buzzy or fizzy. I guess I'll try some tubes next. Man are they pricey on Ebay.



For me a Celestion G12M-65 speaker, new JJ tubes and lowering C19 & C4 to 5 pF did the trick. It addressed the fizzy sound and made the eq more of a better match when switching between channels. To my ears, this amp now sounds almost like a 20-30 year old vintage Marshall.


----------



## DSMer

*My DSL40C with Classic Tone choke installed...
*


----------



## Micky

So tell us about the difference you have noticed...


----------



## Studio270

MarshallDog said:


> For me a Celestion G12M-65 speaker, new JJ tubes and lowering C19 & C4 to 5 pF did the trick. It addressed the fizzy sound and made the eq more of a better match when switching between channels. To my ears, this amp now sounds almost like a 20-30 year old vintage Marshall.




Yup looking for some tubes and a speaker now. Did you put new JJ's in V1-V4? So where is C4? I guess I need to find the schematics.


----------



## saxon68

So what does the choke do? Looks like a pretty easy mod.


----------



## Dizzyg12

DSMer said:


> *My DSL40C with Classic Tone choke installed...
> *



Nice cock.....er tube rings! Where can ya get them? Make a big difference?


----------



## saxon68

Dizzyg12 said:


> Nice cock.....er tube rings! Where can ya get them? Make a big difference?



First 2 words are the fastest way to clear out a men's room... Just sayin'


----------



## wangchung

Well.....Ran the amp at rehearsal last week with a V30 inboard, a G12T75 in the ext. cab, C19 clipped, V1 thru 4: JJ, Sovtek WB, Stock JJ & a Sovtek LP. (I found out the stock Pre's are JJ's) Sounded great 1st set, took a break and the 1st lead was thru the roof. Like channel 2 had been turned up 3 more notches. Turned the chann. 2 vol. knob and it went back to normal. It did it again later. New problem, not acceptable.
we'll see if it continues. 
Today I put a 100pf/100volt cap in C19 hole. Still might be too much. With the crunch engaged on channel 1 with gain only on 3, I could still hear a little harsh treble coming through now and then. I disengaged the crunch on channel 1 and was able to get the gain up to 7 and the master up to 4 with better bass response and really a more Fendery tone than with the crunch. Bass balances better with channel 2 than before as well. 
I also spoke with an amp repair tech today about the triode mode vs the pentode on these amps. He called the power increase an attenuation several times and it got
me thinking if triode might help with evening out the "bass" balance between the channels. While he had the schematic up, I asked him about C20. He said that was for the bass response for channel 2, like C19 is for the high end. It's also a 470pf cap, and he suggested RAISING the value of that to maybe a 680pf up to a 1nf for options there. Makes sense that both of those caps would be jacked up to match, and that a suitable substitution for C20 should be made to balance the C19 mod, aye? They're on order. In the meantime, I did try the triode mode, and of course it required me to turn both channel vols. up to make up the drop in wattage. But it also did indeed help with balancing the bass between channels and softened the high end a little. I don't work big rooms, and I'd rather have 15-20 watts honkin' on 7 or 8 than 50w on a hair trigger on 2-1/2. So new for rehearsal tomorrow will be the C19-100pf mod, the GTM
in the tone stack V3, and triode mode. Oh! and if that vol jump on channel 2 keeps
showing up unannounced. I will also be using the brain to drive a 1936 cab loaded
with a V30 and a Web. G1230/55 at some point tomorrow night.
I'm going to try to verify the direction for the cap value changes for C20 as well
before I do that mod.
Also have a Bias probe and a new JJ 803 coming tomorrow. I'll be able to fit the
Svets and Tung-Sol 34's now with the probe.


----------



## Dizzyg12

saxon68 said:


> First 2 words are the fastest way to clear out a men's room... Just sayin'



I just heard it....


----------



## DSMer

Micky said:


> So tell us about the difference you have noticed...


 
The AC ripple filtering of the choke seems to have brought the bottom end to a more audible frequencies. The tone is much tighter as a result. Gone is the mushiness that drowns your tone when you push the amp harder. The higher Henry (Hy) units the tigher the bottom end gets. Some JVM players use 10Hy on their amps. 

The choke I installed is the Classic Tone 40-18058 3Hy 250mA which is recommended for most Marshalls.


----------



## DSMer

Dizzyg12 said:


> Nice cock.....er tube rings! Where can ya get them? Make a big difference?





They're called tube dampers. Lots of them on ebay. They help absorb vibration on preamp tubes. Highly recommended for combo amps.


----------



## wangchung

Hey Micky, Any thoughts on which direction to go with cap values to lower the bass
sensitivity on chann. 2 gain C20 cap? I'm thinking a variance in value roughly parallel
to that of the 470pf-68pf of C19 since both stock values for C19 & C20 are 470pf.
The tech I talked to thought going "larger" 680pf-1nf would work, but I'd like to get
input from several sources to verify that.
Thanks


----------



## Micky

DSMer said:


> The AC ripple filtering of the choke seems to have brought the bottom end to a more audible frequencies. The tone is much tighter as a result. Gone is the mushiness that drowns your tone when you push the amp harder. The higher Henry (Hy) units the tigher the bottom end gets. Some JVM players use 10Hy on their amps.
> 
> The choke I installed is the Classic Tone 40-18058 3Hy 250mA which is recommended for Marshalls.



You need to pay close attention to the current-carrying capacity of the choke.
Many 10h chokes are not rated for 250ma like the Classictone. Also play close attention to the resistance.. but then you get into calculating reactance, and a bunch of other math I have been trying to forget.


----------



## Micky

wangchung said:


> Hey Micky, Any thoughts on which direction to go with cap values to lower the bass
> sensitivity on chann. 2 gain C20 cap? I'm thinking a variance in value roughly parallel
> to that of the 470pf-68pf of C19 since both stock values for C19 & C20 are 470pf.
> The tech I talked to thought going "larger" 680pf-1nf would work, but I'd like to get
> input from several sources to verify that.
> Thanks



I am patiently waiting for you to try different values and report back here.

MY DSL sounds great just the way it is, and I am sick of removing the chassis...


----------



## jbailes

Hello all, 
First post here.
I've read about all these mods that can be done to the amp to tame the treble and the fizz. Has anyone just tried using an external eq box, like the mxr 10 band eq, for instance?


----------



## Micky

As far as EQ goes, I just received a Boss GE-7, and I use it in the loop.
I don't have enough experience with it yet to say if it does much for taming the fizz, but I noticed right away that I can get Tom Scholz' Boston sound if I adjust it right. 

Maybe tomorrow on my day off I can try it out a bit more, but I am almost embarassed to say that I have been so busy as of late that my practice time has suffered severely.

Have you tried yours yet to see how it does?

Oh and greetings! You will love this forum.

Generally people tell a little about themselves in the Introduce Yourself section.
If you get a chance, you may want to give a general hello to everyone there...


----------



## wangchung

Micky;
Ha. I knew you'd say that. (not really) I hear you on the chassis exercise.
But I keep tellin' myself this is my day job anyway...........
And I'll have the hood open to do the power tube boogie weather the amp is killer
tonight or not, as I just unwrapped a bias fixture obtained from the cat at Eurotubes. Svets, Tung-Sols and I'll prob check the stock tubes as a primer. I might be able to
get my hands on a pair of JJ's tonight too..........
In an effort to identify the origin of the stock tubes, I wound up looking at pictures
of the 2 new ruby 34's, and decided they were one of those 2. Is this on Marty's tube
thread do you know? They both get good reviews, one has welded wings (BHT),
and one crimped (STR). My amp's in the car tho. The pre's are "Marshall spec"
contract JJ's. The numbers check out on the Marshall tube # list floating around,
if it's real. That being said, my 40c sounds pretty killer right now too, but I'm gonna
finish the program I've got laid out. The only other circut mod I might consider is
something in the clean/crunch passive tone caps, if there is anything there to
consider. Someone on this thread claimed to have a schematic, but I can't find one
on the net yet. It sure would help to see the signal path, yknow?


----------



## Micky

Yes, Marty has photos as well as a Marshall tube number list, it is somewhere on here, I have seen it. Don't quite understand it, but it is here. I need to figure out the PermaLink thing (HELP!) so we can put these resources in one spot to link directly to them without having to navigat the whole thread, or, God forbid, use the SEARCH function...

So you have probably already seen my tube lineup, I gotta say, things are in a spot where I am very comfortable. I have tried to take a bit of time and dial in different tones, and I even tried to take some notes, unfortunately the notes are on the sheet music, not in a notebook. (yes, I can read music and tabs, especially if they have pictures...)

But once you get the chassis out, you don't really need a bias fixture, the test points are readily available. Be sure to follow the instructions for the probe though, someone got zapped by one of those and I don't wanna hear about it happening again.

I have always felt the clean crunch is perfect, it is the design by which all others should be measured. Even if the clean volume is a little low, it is enough for me. If I played out, I might consider the 100h and a 2X12, but for now this is fine. 

My Mode4 was the last big amp I had to go, and I don't really miss all that power...


----------



## DSMer

Micky said:


> You need to pay close attention to the current-carrying capacity of the choke.
> Many 10h chokes are not rated for 250ma like the Classictone. Also play close attention to the resistance.. but then you get into calculating reactance, and a bunch of other math I have been trying to forget.


 
I hear you. I wouldn't go higher than 3H based on previous experience modding my JCM2000 100 DSL.


----------



## MartyStrat54

You got some nice amps DSMer.


----------



## MartyStrat54

Micky said:


> Well, since I had the amp chassis out, new tubes, and a camera, I shot some photos of the tubes that ship originally with the DSL40c.
> 
> From everything I have read, as well as the info I have gleaned from others these are Chinese Shugyang EL34B power tubes. They are Marshall labeled and have VLVE-00092 printed on them:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am hoping Marty, Alan or some other expert can shed some light on these.
> 
> The preamp tubes are all similar, and I really haven't seen anything like them. They appear almost chrome-plated inside, and are also Marshall labeled with VLVE-00067 ECC83 printed on them:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do truly hope someone can shed some light on these. They sounded fine in my amp, but now sit as spares.



I thought I had already chimed in on this. The EL34's are Shuguang's and the 12AX7 is a proprietary JJ.


----------



## wangchung

Hey Y'all;
The skinny on the "bright caps"; C19 is for channel 2 (ultra gain) mode 1, C20 is for
channel 2 mode 2. 
Tone shift button switches between a Marshall style "tone stack" and a Fender stlye.
There are "passive" tone shaping components in the clean channel. Fairly well balanced is the opinion of several amp techs that have looked at the scehamatic.
I used my 100pf C19 mod. 40c at rehearsal last night, and am removing it. Gonna
play without a C19. I also ran it on triode mode (low power) and drove a 1936 cab
loaded with a V30 and a Webber G1230/55. Clean channel (no crunch) gain on 8,
vol on 7, ultra channel mode 1, gain 6-1/2, vol on 4. There are class A gain stages
all through the preamp I'm told, and with the power tubes honkin' there was evident
percussion here and there. Good for palm muteing(?) perhaps but not for me. I'm
guessing the stock power tubes are contributing to it, and am gonna roll the Svet,
=C='s and Tung-Sol 34's just (hopefully) for grins. There were a couple of ways to
tame some of the bass going into the ultra gain channel that were suggested by
an amp tech, and all but one would require discharging the filter caps. What I've
done so far gave me manageable low end on channel 2 last night, so I'm gonna
pass on those. (danger Will Robinson!)
The amp is 95% killer now, so the power tube merry-go-round is gonna be it for my DIY on this amp. Oh! No gain jumping on channel 2 last night, it behaved.
Crunchy goodness to all........


----------



## MarshallDog

wangchung said:


> Hey Y'all;
> The skinny on the "bright caps"; C19 is for channel 2 (ultra gain) mode 1, C20 is for
> channel 2 mode 2.
> Tone shift button switches between a Marshall style "tone stack" and a Fender stlye.
> There are "passive" tone shaping components in the clean channel. Fairly well balanced is the opinion of several amp techs that have looked at the scehamatic.
> I used my 100pf C19 mod. 40c at rehearsal last night, and am removing it. Gonna
> play without a C19. I also ran it on triode mode (low power) and drove a 1936 cab
> loaded with a V30 and a Webber G1230/55. Clean channel (no crunch) gain on 8,
> vol on 7, ultra channel mode 1, gain 6-1/2, vol on 4. There are class A gain stages
> all through the preamp I'm told, and with the power tubes honkin' there was evident
> percussion here and there. Good for palm muteing(?) perhaps but not for me. I'm
> guessing the stock power tubes are contributing to it, and am gonna roll the Svet,
> =C='s and Tung-Sol 34's just (hopefully) for grins. There were a couple of ways to
> tame some of the bass going into the ultra gain channel that were suggested by
> an amp tech, and all but one would require discharging the filter caps. What I've
> done so far gave me manageable low end on channel 2 last night, so I'm gonna
> pass on those. (danger Will Robinson!)
> The amp is 95% killer now, so the power tube merry-go-round is gonna be it for my DIY on this amp. Oh! No gain jumping on channel 2 last night, it behaved.
> Crunchy goodness to all........



Great info. As I posted in previous threads, I really like a 5pF cap in the C19 slot. Was thinking of trying a 10 pF cap for the hell of it but for me anything higher than 15 pF adds too much fizz and reduces the classic vintage


----------



## wangchung

Thanks MD. Yea, the diff 'tween 100 & 68, nyeah. Now a 5 or a 10.....why not?
I'll try one. The high end the 100 put back in vs no cap, was also percussive at
times. One of the techs I talked to used the "horse before the cart" analogy to
describe where the tone stack is in this circut.


----------



## wangchung

I got to roll some power tubes this wknd.. The stock Sino's, some '04 Svets, SED=c='s
that were Cryo'd and burned in, and a pair of GTM's (sposed to be Mullard pattern.)
Sino's had loose/dist bass, bland mids and spiky highs. They were also percussive
in the mids & highs. Maybe good for palm muting or "modern" technique, but I wouldn't
know. The GTM's were a joke. Thin sounding from top to bottom, blurred on even 2
string chords, no fi whatsoever Imho. The surprise was how close the Svets with
the crimpped plates and the booteek SED's were. SED's had slightly tighter bass &
mids, and slightly smoother (softer) highs. I went back and forth a coupla times to
be sure. Just discernable difference. The Svets had a more open mid-range growl,
which I like, so I'm gonna Bias those this week and keep the SED's for back-up
for my 2kDSL50, which has SED's in it. I got a pair of Tung-Sols to try but one of them was DOA. Too bad, I had hopes for those. I'm not surprised at the results of
this exercise, to my ear anyway. But you never know.
After I bias the Svets, which I expect to sound better still, I've got a couple more
preamp tubes I wanna try, especilly in V1. A new JJ803s, a TungSol & a new "Mullard".
No gold pins etc....just run tubes.


----------



## Skylarkpilot

Hi All,
Well I couldn't for the life of me hear the reverb on my new 40c so I ended up boxing it back up and returning it to the dealer. They say they've tested it and the reverb's working correctly. Is it possible that it's so weak I really couldn't hear it or are they trying to put one over on me ?
I may not have the most 'musical' ear, but I thought I should at least be able to hear some difference between all the way down and all the way up.
Or am I expecting too much from digital reverb bearing in mind my last amp was Spring reverb ?
Any opinions (polite one's if possible )gladly received as I have to decide whether they should send it back to me or I should source one elsewhere.
Cheers, SP


----------



## Micky

I know this might sound stupid (OK, I have said stupid things before...) but when I changed my EL34 power tubes from the stock OEM Marshall tubes to TAD EL34b STR's it kind of 'woke up' the reverb. It became much more noticeable, although it cannot begin to compare to my Fender Silver-Face Princeton Reverb.

It may have just been very weak, or you may have not noticed yours. If someone else has tried it and says it is working, then you really have no recourse. Unfortunately, there is no real adjustment for this other than the front panel knob and the footswitch. The footswitch is necessary, because that is the ONLY way to turn the reverb on and off. (I don't believe it is ON by default, I never checked that to see if I actually needed the footswitch or not, it is just I have always plugged in the footswitch...)

Of course, you could always trade it in for something else, but I feel that even though the reverb is weak, it is usable. Many others have opted for an outboard reverb pedal. I have not found the need yet for that. It has a 5-year warranty, so if you DO feel it is faulty you should be able to get a replacement.


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

Half the time I can't tell if my reverb is even on. I wish the foot switch or the front panel had a LED so you could tell. Still not a deal breaker for me.


----------



## Pumpkin88

Skylarkpilot said:


> Hi All,
> Well I couldn't for the life of me hear the reverb on my new 40c so I ended up boxing it back up and returning it to the dealer. They say they've tested it and the reverb's working correctly. Is it possible that it's so weak I really couldn't hear it or are they trying to put one over on me ?
> I may not have the most 'musical' ear, but I thought I should at least be able to hear some difference between all the way down and all the way up.
> Or am I expecting too much from digital reverb bearing in mind my last amp was Spring reverb ?
> Any opinions (polite one's if possible )gladly received as I have to decide whether they should send it back to me or I should source one elsewhere.
> Cheers, SP



I doubt its broken you're probably like the 20th person in this thread thats noticed this. It does work its just very subtle. I keep mine dimed to get the most out of it.


----------



## Pumpkin88

Greatwhitenorth said:


> Half the time I can't tell if my reverb is even on. I wish the foot switch or the front panel had a LED so you could tell. Still not a deal breaker for me.



Once its on its on even if you turn the amp off.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Yep, same here, reverb is very subtle, I use goodies in the loop so it doesn't really bug me that much.



jbailes said:


> Hello all,
> First post here.
> I've read about all these mods that can be done to the amp to tame the treble and the fizz. Has anyone just tried using an external eq box, like the mxr 10 band eq, for instance?



It can help, the biggie for me was the difference in EQ between crunch and OD channels, the C19 clip fixed it perfectly. No EQ required now!


----------



## Steve Naples

My DSL100H was the same way, played with it, removed the board reconnected everything. Nothing, then all of a sudden one day I tried it and had my wife listen, and she says yep I hear it. It is there, I hear it now too, it's just not JCM 800 Spring reverb.... but it is there, I have mine set at 3o'clock works good.


----------



## Dizzyg12

I hear my reverb great in clean channel, but with the ultra channel it's much harder to hear. The higher the gain, harder it is to hear. 

I'm almost 100% certain that it's defaulted to be on if the foot switch is unplugged because how else would you get it on. There's no push button on the panel.

I'm not huge on reverb so it's fine for me but I'm sure some could benefit from a reverb pedal.


----------



## JEB

I'm using a reverb pedal in the effects loop, but I'd love to be able to rip out the digital reverb board and install a spring reverb tank in the combo. Now, all I need is for someone on here to figure out how to do it and let me know lol.


----------



## Skylarkpilot

Ok, thanks guys. Thank you for all the replies about the reverb. Maybe I was a little too quick off the mark. After all I can always stick a pedal on it. I just wanted my new amp to be perfect. I guess I'll get them to send it back to me then. After all, apart from the reverb I actually quite like it despite the small intonation issues. Pretty much made up my mind to try some new tubes in any case.


----------



## Skylarkpilot

JEB said:


> I'm using a reverb pedal in the effects loop, but I'd love to be able to rip out the digital reverb board and install a spring reverb tank in the combo. Now, all I need is for someone on here to figure out how to do it and let me know lol.



Now there's a cool idea....anyone know how ?


----------



## CarlosPrex

Since I reached this thread I´ve PM some questions to some members 

Well, my DSL40C will arrive today... so be prepared for me asking more help about improving tone



Greetings from México


----------



## gibguy

I did two things to improve my DSL's sound . # 1 was to build a 2x12 cab loaded with eminance swamp thang and a Texas heat. Vast improvement in low end and helped smooth out the highs considerably. Next was a full set of NOS preamp tubes from martystrat. I knew that they would make a difference but holy cow. I can just hit one chord and let it ring and just be astounded at all the harmonics.


----------



## Duffy49

Dizzyg12 said:


> I hear my reverb great in clean channel, but with the ultra channel it's much harder to hear. The higher the gain, harder it is to hear.
> 
> I'm almost 100% certain that it's defaulted to be on if the foot switch is unplugged because how else would you get it on. There's no push button on the panel.
> 
> I'm not huge on reverb so it's fine for me but I'm sure some could benefit from a reverb pedal.




I noticed the same thing with my DSL100H. Mine works great on the clean and clean/crunch channel. It's hard to hear on the gain channels, at least the way I use them.

The reverb defaults to "on" when the foot switch is unplugged. I turn the reverb knob up all the way on the clean reverb knob and get decent reverb.


----------



## JEB

The more I think about the spring reverb tank, the more I want to do it. I'm the wrong kind of engineer for this kind of work, though I might be able to muddle my way through it given enough time lol

After a quick googling of reverb basics, it looks like the setup in most amps require a drive circuit and a recovery circuit. The basics of those don't look to daunting...but that might just be my ignorance fooling me.

http://www.vintageamps.com/Reverb%20Tanks.pdf

This will be impossible for me without a schematic for the 40c...even then, I'm not sure I'm up to the challenge.


----------



## wangchung

Hey Y'all......
I got a chance to roll some pre-tubes in V1 today. A new Tung-Sol, a new Mullard &
a new JJ 803s. I have been running a JJ 83s in there thats a good sounding one that
has worked in several amps in the last couple of years. The V1 tube is the input buffer
for both channels, (V1a) and the gain knob on channel 2 (V1b). By rolling tubes in V1 and tweaking the resonance and bass controls while doing so, it seemed to me that the bass response for both channels is also more or less set by V1a. So the trick for
me was to find a tube that gave full sound on the clean channel, but gave good crunch on channel 2 mode 1 without booming. The JJ 83s was doing that, but the
newer JJ 803s is better yet. Crisper mids and a softer high end. And! I can back
off the treble on the guitar amost all the way without losing crunch or volume.
None of the other tubes I've tried in there did that to the degree this one does.
The primo JJ 83s that was in there was only good down to 6 before it started to
peter out (sorry pete). I suggest either of those JJ's in V1. I'm running a 100pf
cap in C19 now but am gonna try a 68pf for a tad less baseline highs as well.
The new mullard sounded a lot like the original GTM's I have, with a somewhat
more extended range and better "FI". The Tung-Sol would have stayed in the amp
if not for the JJ 803s. It had very even, smooth frequency response with tight
bass, not boomy, and snooth extended highs. Nice. Also recommended. Neither
it or the Mullard had the more open midrange growl that the JJ's seem to have,
which works with that same characteristic in the Svetlana EL34's, which in turn
works for me. They were just "smoother' in the mids. The Tung-Sol a little less gain.
So for me, trying to get a "Fendery" clean and "Eliminator/Afterburner" crunchy 2-
string rythym/lead tones, It's a JJ803s, Sovtek WB, GTM & a Sovtek LP (V1 thru 4)
driving new prod. Svetlana EL34's. (I'm checking the bias on those this wknd. the
stock tubes had 38ma written on them.) I've got a nicely broken in V30 in the 40c
cab and an almost broken in G12T75 in a semi-open back 1x12 ext. cab. both 16ohm.
It sounds great!


----------



## Studio270

Hey wang,

The JJ 803s I found at the Tube Store Say they are not recomended for combo amps because of the long plates. Are the cheap JJ 83s that are 10 bucks any good?

Keep up the good work it is very helpful.


----------



## broomy

Ok, so the 2ND replacement DSL40 arrived today- again sounds beautiful, great tones but again on Ultra Gain channel there's some real hiss (like white noise from a tv)and hum. Unplugged guitar, hiss still there. Moved amp into another room- still there. Now, can someone tell me is this normal? I appreciate the DSL is mega gain heavy on that channel, so there will be some noise, no? While playing it's no problem, crunch channel is no problem (although if I push the crunch button and crank the gain, it becomes apparent). Heeeeeeelp!!


----------



## Micky

broomy said:


> Ok, so the 2ND replacement DSL40 arrived today- again sounds beautiful, great tones but again on Ultra Gain channel there's some real hiss (like white noise from a tv)and hum. Unplugged guitar, hiss still there. Moved amp into another room- still there. Now, can someone tell me is this normal? I appreciate the DSL is mega gain heavy on that channel, so there will be some noise, no? While playing it's no problem, crunch channel is no problem (although if I push the crunch button and crank the gain, it becomes apparent). Heeeeeeelp!!



So what are your front panel settings?
With that channel's gain and volume turned way up, yes, you will hear a little noise. Can't tell though based on your OP...


----------



## broomy

If the gain is on 2+ and vol 2-3+ yeah it's pretty audible while not playing, as it is with crunch engaged on classic channel with gain above 3 and vol 3-4 or above. Should it make noise? could it need a bias or something? anyone else got one that doesn't make noise? (brand new not modded)

While playing it's not an issue, sounds awesomebut pretty irritating in between at higher volumes. I'm sure the first one I had wasn't this noisy but then, that one went wrong (cut out)in the end so that's no benchmark! maybe it wasn't noisy because something was wrong?


----------



## Dizzyg12

Mine had the white noise hiss which evolved into feedback until I changed the tube in v3. I put another JJ83 that I had and it's pretty quiet now. Especially with my smart gate engaged. That takes away the unwanted guitar feedback.


----------



## CarlosPrex

Ok, here we go

I´ve been playing my brand new DSL40C, and no surprise here: I´m going for the 100pf c19 cap replacement.

...but 50v? 500v? or exactly which one should I look for?


----------



## Micky

The original is a 470p 100V ceramic cap.


----------



## CarlosPrex

Micky said:


> The original is a 470p 100V ceramic cap.



Thanks
Just curious, any difference about using 50v instead of 100v?

I could only found 100pf 500v ceramic caps!


----------



## Micky

I wouldn't use a 50V, if anything I would use the 500 if I couldn't get the proper rating.


----------



## Skylarkpilot

Questions, questions......sorry
When swapping the power tubes, are the online calculators for bias settings like Webers sufficient ? I was thinking of swapping my EL34's for the TAD EL34bstr's, as they are recommended for the Marshall amps and may quieten down some of the hiss. Any strong feelings guys ?


----------



## Micky

Yes, they work. I think you will find 38mv +- 3mv or so sufficient.
Taming the hiss will probably be accomplished via preamp tubes, V2 or V3 may be the culprit.


----------



## wangchung

Studio270 said:


> Hey wang,
> 
> The JJ 803s I found at the Tube Store Say they are not recomended for combo amps because of the long plates. Are the cheap JJ 83s that are 10 bucks any good?
> 
> Keep up the good work it is very helpful.




Hey 270;
I like them. The long plates seem to have a "broader soundstage" to quote
the hi-fi's. Smoother, more balanced from hi to low, tight bass. I haven't had any go microphonic, but I haven't had one in a combo long enough to saythey're more durable than a short plate like the JJ83s. More than 3-4
mos. of gigging and rehearsals say. I like the JJ83s in V1 tho. The tung-sols
were similar to the long-plates in sound I thought, but less gain, it seemed,
than either of the JJ tubes. You can't go wrong with std. JJ83s in V1 IMO.
Some like the sound, some don't. V1a sets your overall character for both
channels in the 40c, V1b is the ultra gain gas. Good price on the 83's btw.


----------



## wangchung

Well........I may have hit on the one true "voo-doo" of "re-tubing"; power tube biasing.
Yet another tone-shaping component. It seems you can get in the park with a "tool"
like the one yerotoobs sells to get your tube voltage, & set your "bias" with any
mulitimeter that has the right values on it. If you get lucky, and guess the right bias
MV value, that's it. 70% of the voltage is really the upper limit that prudent "they"
recommend. It's safe. But short of getting an ocilloscope(?) and fine tuning the
notch out of the waveform, you play it. And listen. So i'm schoolin'. I'm making a
playable arrangement with the cabinets and the chassis out where I can get at
the bias pot, and my 4 sets of power tubes. Including the stock ones. It seems
the desirable traits of the different tubes can be enhanced or masked by the
biasing process. in fact, it can also yield bad sounds. Almost makes me feel like
I should have started with this part of the quest. At any rate, I'll post anything
I think might be helpful when I'm done. Next week I hope.


----------



## Duffy49

wangchung said:


> Well........I may have hit on the one true "voo-doo" of "re-tubing"; power tube biasing.
> Yet another tone-shaping component. It seems you can get in the park with a "tool"
> like the one yerotoobs sells to get your tube voltage, & set your "bias" with any
> mulitimeter that has the right values on it. If you get lucky, and guess the right bias
> MV value, that's it. 70% of the voltage is really the upper limit that prudent "they"
> recommend. It's safe. But short of getting an ocilloscope(?) and fine tuning the
> notch out of the waveform, you play it. And listen. So i'm schoolin'. I'm making a
> playable arrangement with the cabinets and the chassis out where I can get at
> the bias pot, and my 4 sets of power tubes. Including the stock ones. It seems
> the desirable traits of the different tubes can be enhanced or masked by the
> biasing process. in fact, it can also yield bad sounds. Almost makes me feel like
> I should have started with this part of the quest. At any rate, I'll post anything
> I think might be helpful when I'm done. Next week I hope.




This is great info to know about. Thanks man. It is good info for all of us in this thread to consider. I'd like to learn how to do my own biasing. The guy at a local shop told me he would show me how to do it. I should take him up on that. I'm not sure what method he uses or if he has biasing apparatuses, whatever they are called - I can't remember. I'd like to get one if they are not super expensive.


----------



## Micky

Duffy49 said:


> This is great info to know about. Thanks man. It is good info for all of us in this thread to consider. I'd like to learn how to do my own biasing. The guy at a local shop told me he would show me how to do it. I should take him up on that. I'm not sure what method he uses or if he has biasing apparatuses, whatever they are called - I can't remember. I'd like to get one if they are not super expensive.



Only tool needed is a multimeter. Some nice probe clips will help.

The very first page of this thread describes the process, as well as contains photos so you can do it yourself. Your tech should be able to answer any questions you might have, but you already have the right attitude!


----------



## Duffy49

Micky said:


> Only tool needed is a multimeter. Some nice probe clips will help.
> 
> The very first page of this thread describes the process, as well as contains photos so you can do it yourself. Your tech should be able to answer any questions you might have, but you already have the right attitude!




Thanks Micky. And, I have a real nice digital multimeter but no probe clips.

The info in this thread is really valuable.

My new Avatar Vintage cab with twin Swamp Thangs sounds super great, and turns into a whole new world when I crank up the amp a little and drive it on the clean/crunch channel. It rocks - it rocks the whole house and sounds really better than the Seventy/80 in my DSL40C, which isn't a slouch itself. It deserves a new speaker though. The Avatar is rich and full of content at a way different level than the combo. My new PRS SE Santana does a great job of holding up to some decent gain and moderately high volume. My Gibson SG Standard with the 490/498 pickup set also holds up nicely and stays together really well when pushing the amp moderately. Some of my guitars have humbuckers that just fall apart under some higher gain and moderate volume. It is surprising actually. All humbuckers are not essentially equal, needless to say.


----------



## Micky

Yeah Duffy, I have to agree with all you have posted. I had a hot MHD pickup in my LP, but swapped it back for the 498/490 combo and it sounds great. I think I would like to go the other way, maybe a 57+ set that might allow me to run the gain up a bit more and still get that crunch...

I use Pomona test clips almost exclusively, the ones I like for biasing are the top right of the photo below. They fit all my Fluke meters as well as my new Klien handheld.


----------



## broomy

So apparently my returned marshall had nothing wrong with it so maybe they're all noisy? Any advice? Should I be investing in a noise gate? Emailed Marshall and was basically told to expect hiss on Ultra Gain....

Also, is it not expected that even under warranty the owner may have to change valves? Or should this be left to dealer/marshall while under warranty? I've read a few people saying the hiss is down to poor pre-amp tubes? Maybe if I change them/get them changed it will go away?

What are the stock valves? How do I do it? Should I do it?

Frustrated DSL owner


----------



## Micky

Try swapping out each preamp tube with a spare known good 12AX7. And yes, tube amplifiers require maintenance, right out of the box sometimes. Tubes have been know to fail, even new ones. Swapping preamp tubes is not a big deal, no rebiasing is required and you don't need to remove the chassis.

Depending on where you purchased it, (you did not state where and when) you may be able to show them that a bad tube was the culprit. Although any decent shop would have swapped out preamp tubes to see for themselves. At least I would have...


----------



## Duffy49

broomy said:


> So apparently my returned marshall had nothing wrong with it so maybe they're all noisy? Any advice? Should I be investing in a noise gate? Emailed Marshall and was basically told to expect hiss on Ultra Gain....
> 
> Also, is it not expected that even under warranty the owner may have to change valves? Or should this be left to dealer/marshall while under warranty? I've read a few people saying the hiss is down to poor pre-amp tubes? Maybe if I change them/get them changed it will go away?
> 
> What are the stock valves? How do I do it? Should I do it?
> 
> Frustrated DSL owner




I'm totally oblivious to the hiss and it doesn't bother me at all. I'm used to it and realize that it comes with the territory.

If there is a demonstrated way to lower the hiss without degrading the sound and vibe of the amp I might try it, but it doesn't bother me and when I play it does not get louder. The ultra gain sound is so good sounding that a little hiss doesn't bother me.

I have a sixty five watt three channel Crate RFX65 that is a very nice solid state amp. You should hear it hiss on the high gain channel. It is very prominent. I use this amp in my drum room for when I want to jam along to cd's with my Michael Kelly Patriot Custom. I ignore the heavy hiss and can't hear it when I play. I have my Walkman cd player plugged into my Crate acoustic amp, the Gunnison, that has a control section for turning up the cd volume, etc., plus you can turn it up on the cd player itself. I jam along to that and play thru the noisy lead channel of the electric guitar amp or one of the other two channels. The DSL100H and DSL40C that I have are mild hisser's compared to that solid state amp but I still dig it and it is a beautiful looking amp with brown tolex and a gold "V" on the front and gold Crate logo with a very nice grill cloth. Sometimes hiss just goes with the territory, especially high gain territory.

I'd say play the amp and groove on it, accept the hiss as much as you can and become oblivious to it. Also maybe move a little farther away from the amp when you are playing. Try to play the heck out of it and bond with it, then you might be more tolerant of certain aspects of it that become diminished because of your appreciation of the great vibe that it has and the satisfaction that it provides you with.

Good luck.


----------



## broomy

OK spoken to the dealer, they said my valve question was very valid and yes changing a pre amp tube may eliminate hiss and yes I can do it myself under warranty etc or bring it in to them (but i'd pay for valves etc) OR send to marshall.... which could take 2-3 weeks.... so fudge it i'll give it a go!!.....Any advice on tubes to use? I'm thinking JJECC83???/and advice in general as I've never done this!

Duffy, I agree to a large extent I just have concerns that trying to record with this amp hissing like a bitch may prove irritating. But don't get me wrong, this amp does the job, sounds lovely.


----------



## Micky

Yeah, JJ's are great general preamp tubes, and very inexpensive for Current Production stuff. I feel it is necessary to always have spares. It is part of owning tube amps, because you never know what is going to happen. Tubes are fragile, and it is very prudent to have at least one complete set of spares.

Try swapping them one at a time to see what difference it makes.


----------



## broomy

Cool, thanks for the reassurance. Will order a tube now. Just want to eliminate hiss not change the tone (yet..) so will just try each one until the hiss subsides. If it doesn't then i'll presume there's nothing I can do?! Gonna open her up in a minute, if a valve is loose would that hiss/buzz?


----------



## Micky

No, loose probably won't cause hiss, but you never know.
Generally high gain and volume settings will do it, along with noisy pickups.

Keep us posted...


----------



## CarlosPrex

Well
Special thanks to Micky, Greatwhitenorth and Paradox who help me answering my PMs.

I decided just clip c19 
I´ve just installed side handles too
Great improvement!

I see some people like V30...I can get a Vintage 30 from an Orange Rockerveb that a friend has...but not sure if there´s just one type and it will do the job

Musiciansfriend announces: "Celestion Vintage 30 30W, 12" Guitar Speaker" but in specs says "Power Rating: 60w"

Then I took a G12M Greenback from a Traynor...only to find it´s 25w/8ohms...
I guess I can use the 8 ohms jack, but 25w are not enough, right?


----------



## Skylarkpilot

Ok, so I wussed out and stumped up for the Amp Head dual Biasing jobby with plate voltage. I know I could have just measured the voltages across the pins but being rather new to this I figured the less poking around I do inside, the less likely I am to damage myself or the amp.
I'll let you other 'junior' guys like me know how I get on.


----------



## Duffy49

CarlosPrex said:


> Well
> Special thanks to Micky, Greatwhitenorth and Paradox who help me answering my PMs.
> 
> I decided just clip c19
> I´ve just installed side handles too
> Great improvement!
> 
> I see some people like V30...I can get a Vintage 30 from an Orange Rockerveb that a friend has...but not sure if there´s just one type and it will do the job
> 
> Musiciansfriend announces: "Celestion Vintage 30 30W, 12" Guitar Speaker" but in specs says "Power Rating: 60w"
> 
> Then I took a G12M Greenback from a Traynor...only to find it´s 25w/8ohms...
> I guess I can use the 8 ohms jack, but 25w are not enough, right?




I can understand your eagerness to swap out the stock speaker, but you might want to exercise some patience here and take your time, make sure you have the right thing, the right specifications, and the speaker that you want.

I was playing my DSL100H thru a mediocre four by twelve Epiphone cab. The cab is good and I want to retro-fit it with four really good speakers that I think will enhance my overall sound. In the meantime I'm using a new Vintage style Avatar two by twelve cab with two Eminence Swamp Thang speakers that really sound great with that amp head. The Swamp Thangs sound rich and full and really sound great when the amp is moderately cranked. I really dig this speaker cab compared to the actually half way decent Celestion Seventy/80 stock speaker in my DSL40C. 

I would like to replace the speaker in my DSL40C with something new, possibly a Texas Heat like Micky has found to be good in his combo. I know he has done other mods that I haven't done but it seems like it would be a really nice speaker. 

Going with another Swamp Thang in my combo sounds quite a bit like it would be duplicating the sound of what I already have in he other amp. I want to ideally put an Electro Voice EVM12L in my Epiphone Valve Jr one by twelve extension cab, 8 ohms, 200 watts. 

I believe the Vintage 30 is a sixty watt speaker and they sure sound good in the Marshall four by twelve and a good head. I want to get a speaker that is rated at more watts and that has a sensitivity rating around 104dB. The higher the dB rating of the speaker, the more sensitive the speaker is; which equates to the speaker with a few dB's higher sensitivity being a "lot" louder than a lower rated one "in the same amp" at the same number on the volume knob (to simplify the idea). 

So, it can be seen that by choosing a speaker with an increased dB rating, you can make your existing amp "a lot louder" if you increase the dB rating of your replacement speaker by three or four dB's greater than the dB rating of the speaker you are replacing. 

It is, therefore, in my opinion, important to bear in mind the dB sensitivity rating of any speaker that you are swapping into your amp or cab if you want to get more volume out of your amp. 

If, for instance, you are going from a stock 98dB rated speaker sensitivity to a 104dB rated speaker sensitivity, your amp is going to sound "a lot" louder at the same numerical setting on the amp's volume knob. Of course if you have both gain and volume knobs for the channel the interaction of the gain and volume knobs is going to have a lot to do with how loud your amp sounds - never the less, if the new speaker has a significantly higher dB rating the resulting volume of the amp is going to be a lot louder.

This consideration may or may not be of value to you depending on certain values, such as how powerful your amp is to begin with. If you have a 120 watt tube amp it is going to be very loud using any typical guitar amp speaker. On the other hand some people want to make their super loud amp more manageable at lower volumes by putting in a lower rated dB speaker than the stock one.

Personally, I like to have a loud speaker in my amps. My AC15C1, for instance could use a higher dB rated speaker in order to make the amp sound a lot louder. It is, however, a great sounding amp stock and I don't have any immediate plans to swap in a higher dB speaker, but if I do change speakers I will install one with a higher dB sensitivity rating.

I don't know if this helps you with your speaker swap, but the Vintage 30 is a very nice speaker in my opinion. Putting it in a 40 watt Marshall DSL40C with a high gain channel and the potential for a lot of overdrive and distortion does not give you a lot of extra power range before you max out the capabilities of the speaker to handle that extra power. My Swamp Thangs are rated at 150 watts each, so I have plenty of leeway when it comes to handling the 100 watt output of my DSL100H. I'd like to have a speaker capable of handling around 150 watts for my DSL40C, considering that I like to use the Lead voices at fairly well cranked volumes from time to time. Some extra power handling capabilities can help prevent the speaker from blowing on a powerful tube amp with a lot of gain and overdrive/distortion getting thrown at the speaker.

I hope this makes sense and helps you out. Maybe someone else more knowledgeable than me can explain it in simpler terms and correct any mistakes I may have made.

Good luck with the speaker swap.


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

Skylarkpilot said:


> Ok, so I wussed out and stumped up for the Amp Head dual Biasing jobby with plate voltage. I know I could have just measured the voltages across the pins but being rather new to this I figured the less poking around I do inside, the less likely I am to damage myself or the amp.
> I'll let you other 'junior' guys like me know how I get on.



This isn't wussing out at all in my opinion. Safety is key when working inside these chassis, especially when you consider the lethal voltages contained. I think you would find that most pros would rather err on the side of caution by using proper testing equipment even though they could do the job without it. Let us know how you make out.


----------



## Micky

Ahh, but you see, measuring the voltage on the bias pins exposes you to MILLIVOLTS.

Using a bias probe exposes you to LETHAL voltages supplied to the tube.

There IS a method to the madness, as the new DSL's don't expose you to as many dangerous points as older amps do. The caps are mounted so that you cannot touch the terminals, and almost anything with a lethal voltage is either very close to the board or insulated somehow. Biasing using the pins and a DMM is very safe.

See this thread:

http://www.marshallforum.com/workbench/62094-nasty-jolt-bias-probe.html


----------



## CarlosPrex

There´s a noticeable hiss on the amp when on at any volume on the guitar

Can it be a preamp tube?
I have some preamp tubes 

JAN PHILIPS ECG 12AT7WC
FENDER 12AXTWA
GT-12AX7-R
GT-ECC83S

Can I put any of these to try if the hiss is gone?


----------



## Micky

CarlosPrex said:


> There´s a noticeable hiss on the amp when on at any volume on the guitar
> 
> Can it be a preamp tube?
> I have some preamp tubes
> 
> JAN PHILIPS ECG 12AT7WC
> FENDER 12AXTWA
> GT-12AX7-R
> GT-ECC83S
> 
> Can I put any of these to try if the hiss is gone?


What about with no guitar plugged in?


----------



## Duffy49

Micky said:


> What about with no guitar plugged in?



Micky, I just plugged my Fender Lonestar Strat into my DSL40C, stock, and it is very quiet on the clean channel with the crunch button engaged; however, when I switch to the Lead 1 channel there is substantial hiss and engaging the Lead 2 button introduces even a more pronounced hiss.

When I unplug the strat from the amp's input there is no decrease in the very significant background hiss. This is with the gain at "8" and the volume at "6" on the "Ultra" channel. 

I am not bothered by this idling hiss and I think it is normal.

As you have said, it is possible that the hiss can be reduced by finding a quieter tube for V1, V2, or whatever it was. 

I think that this hiss is to be expected but that it might be able to be improved upon. It sounds about like my other very high gain amp - my Peavey 6505+ combo, which is, in my opinion, a very cool and super loud high gain amp. When you turn up the gain and volume on either channel the hiss will "definitely get your attention". This Peavey is really a nice amp though and I know what to expect when I crank up the high gain on it. 

Maybe this hissing is a fault, but I think it is to be expected with a high gain tube amp and I'm not worried that it is a defect or a problem that has crept into the amp; so I have not been bothered by it. 
I hope this feedback is of some value in the context of this problem described in the thread.


----------



## CarlosPrex

Micky said:


> What about with no guitar plugged in?



With no guitar plugged the hiss is almost gone
Tried 2 Les Paul and one ES-335
Tried 3 tested guitar cables


----------



## Dizzyg12

I had the hiss until I changed the v3 tube. It's pretty quiet now.


----------



## CarlosPrex

Dizzyg12 said:


> I had the hiss until I changed the v3 tube. It's pretty quiet now.



I´m curious about checking tubes
I have some preamp tubes 

JAN PHILIPS ECG 12AT7WC
FENDER 12AXTWA
GT-12AX7-R
GT-ECC83S

Can I put any of these to try if the hiss is gone or they are not equivalent?


----------



## Micky

I would try all of them, the 12AT will have less gain.


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

Micky said:


> Ahh, but you see, measuring the voltage on the bias pins exposes you to MILLIVOLTS.
> 
> Using a bias probe exposes you to LETHAL voltages supplied to the tube.
> 
> There IS a method to the madness, as the new DSL's don't expose you to as many dangerous points as older amps do. The caps are mounted so that you cannot touch the terminals, and almost anything with a lethal voltage is either very close to the board or insulated somehow. Biasing using the pins and a DMM is very safe.
> 
> See this thread:
> 
> http://www.marshallforum.com/workbench/62094-nasty-jolt-bias-probe.html



Good info in that thread. I treat the open chassis with the upmost of respect but I had no idea the bias probe would be more dangerous. I guess the difference is that I wouldn't move the leads without powering down first. Even though there were only millivolts, I turned the amp off after biasing the first tube just to make sure nothing shorted to ground. Last thing I wanted was to cause any damage and void my warranty.


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

I also get a fair amount of hiss, especially with Ultra 2. I still haven't started rolling tubes yet.


----------



## Dizzyg12

CarlosPrex said:


> I´m curious about checking tubes
> I have some preamp tubes
> 
> JAN PHILIPS ECG 12AT7WC
> FENDER 12AXTWA
> GT-12AX7-R
> GT-ECC83S
> 
> Can I put any of these to try if the hiss is gone or they are not equivalent?



I'm not really the tube expert so I can't tell you....I know that I try to keep my tubes in line with what it was designed to run with, I just may try various manufacturers or slight variations to quiet noise or feedback. Some are much more knowledgable than I am, and probably more free willing when it comes to trying different combinations of tubes. I'm afraid to go down that path as it's a neverending road from what I gather. Lol


----------



## Skylarkpilot

Hi Micky, I hear you on the high voltage thing and I read the post by the guy who got the 'jolt' very carefully. The reason I decided on the Amp-Head dual bias was that you can set everything up on both tubes before you turn the amp on. You can then measure and adjust everything without any need to unplug or change any leads around. Just the 'one hand behind the back' rule and an insulated screwdriver to adjust the pots. Just seemed that for me, it was going to be simplest. I agree that the single bias device does lend itself to people unplugging stuff whilst it's live and potentially exposing themselves to high voltages. I think in this kind of case awareness is the key. And that is something that websites like this and gentlemen such as yourself excel at providing.


----------



## Micky

OK, sure that method should work well. I am glad you have the foresight to actually want to maintain your amp! It is always best to do your homework first, and it looks like you have found a route that will work for you.

I just thought it pertinent that I mention that others have not had the perfect experience with such devices, and that as long as you follow the instructions you will be fine. Just be sure to turn off any equipment before you remove or connect any devices and you will be all set.

They make these devices for a reason, and ease of use is generally the case. 

Let us know how you make out, info provided here for all is a tremendous reference.


----------



## broomy

Nice to hear i'm not the only one experiencing hiss issues, and also nice to see some of you have solved it by replacing one of the pre-amp tubes.

2 JJECC83's due through the letterbox tomorrow so I will find out then. Fingers very much crossed...

Anybody who has solved the hiss, what tube did you use? I really hope you'll say JJ's now I've bought them!!!!

Have noticed after hours of scrutiny last night that the hiss is always there, worse with increased gain/volume, but not noticeable while playing, and that my guitar is the hum culprit. if I unplug guitar there is the background hiss and a faint low level hum. If I plug guitar in, there is noticeable hum (all on ultra channel, and on higher gain setting in cruncH). Maybe time for new pickups? It's a semi (1996 Epi Sheraton II all stock electronics)so electrical work is a pain in the ass.

Anyway, needless to say if the tube thing doesn't work, I may be contacting Marshall........

Actually I think i'll contact them regardless


----------



## broomy

Also just read on another forum that the rubber gromit on v1 is installed incorrectly and should be in the chassis? Any truth in it? Could it case issues?


----------



## Dizzyg12

broomy said:


> Nice to hear i'm not the only one experiencing hiss issues, and also nice to see some of you have solved it by replacing one of the pre-amp tubes.
> 
> 2 JJECC83's due through the letterbox tomorrow so I will find out then. Fingers very much crossed...
> 
> Anybody who has solved the hiss, what tube did you use? I really hope you'll say JJ's now I've bought them!!!!
> 
> Have noticed after hours of scrutiny last night that the hiss is always there, worse with increased gain/volume, but not noticeable while playing, and that my guitar is the hum culprit. if I unplug guitar there is the background hiss and a faint low level hum. If I plug guitar in, there is noticeable hum (all on ultra channel, and on higher gain setting in cruncH). Maybe time for new pickups? It's a semi (1996 Epi Sheraton II all stock electronics)so electrical work is a pain in the ass.
> 
> Anyway, needless to say if the tube thing doesn't work, I may be contacting Marshall........
> 
> Actually I think i'll contact them regardless




I used a JJECC83 in v3 and it was a big improvement! 

I don't think the hiss is out of the ordinary for a high gain amp, but if you can find a way to eliminate it then why not right?


----------



## MarshallDog

broomy said:


> Also just read on another forum that the rubber gromit on v1 is installed incorrectly and should be in the chassis? Any truth in it? Could it case issues?



That's funny because I always wondered that because I had a JVM 410H and the gromit was installed into the frame the way you read about. I'm sure it wouldn't hurt either way but when it is installed into the chassis whole, it makes getting the tube set in place a bit more difficult.


----------



## Dizzyg12

broomy said:


> Also just read on another forum that the rubber gromit on v1 is installed incorrectly and should be in the chassis? Any truth in it? Could it case issues?



It's physically impossible to get the ring of the chassis hole to fit inside the groove of the rubber grommet. And then get tube to fit. Trust me I tried.


----------



## MarshallDog

Dizzyg12 said:


> I used a JJECC83 in v3 and it was a big improvement!
> 
> I don't think the hiss is out of the ordinary for a high gain amp, but if you can find a way to eliminate it then why not right?



I went to JJ's across the board (JJECC83's in pre-amp) and it sounds great with no hiss. I do have C4 at 47 pF and C19at 20 pF so that may help also.


----------



## MarshallDog

Has anyone installed the Belton Tube Shields on the 4 pre-amp tubes. I was thinking about buying these for three reasons, (1) they are cheap, (2) they should shield the tubes and further reduce noise, (3) they should protect the tubes from the typical combo vibration stresses. Any thoughts??

Here's the link to the tube shields I am about to purchase:

www.thetubestore.com - Belton Tube Shield for Chassis Cut-Out

Thanks...


----------



## Micky

You be the first, then write the review here.

That is what this thread is for.


----------



## Micky

broomy said:


> Also just read on another forum that the rubber gromit on v1 is installed incorrectly and should be in the chassis? Any truth in it? Could it cause issues?



No it just slips over the tube, not into the chassis.


----------



## MarshallDog

Micky said:


> You be the first, then write the review here.
> 
> That is what this thread is for.



Think I will. Any thoughts on why Marshall didn't install them other than they were being cheap, heat issues, etc??


----------



## Micky

Probably because they aren't really necessary.
My Haze 15 has one on V1, but that is it.

I think because of the way the gain stages are cascaded it doesn't drive the preamp too hard. If they had tried to use 2 preamp tubes instead of 3, and really pushed the gain on them then it might have made a difference.

The DSL5c doesn't have any either, not even a grommet on V1...


----------



## wangchung

Good day! I went thru what is probably the minimum one has to do in order to sample
what powertubes have to offer sonically. I obtained a "voltage" probe that does one
tube at a time and plugs into a multimeter. You have to have a meter that reads 500v
dc for that. I made 2 bias probes for my meter by cutting off the plain probes and soldered on insulated aligator clips. They stay on the bias pins freeing your hands. Your meter needs a 200mv(m) dc setting to read the bias signal coming from the bias pins.
Tubes tested were Svetlana, the stock Sino's, a new pair of GTM's (Mullard clones)
and some (nos) cryo/burned in =C='s. The bad; one of the Svets was bad. (New pair
coming.) The good;the GTM's are staying in the amp.
I used the voltage fixture to get volt readings from each pair of tubes. Then computed 50, 60 & 70% "bias"mv points using the design wattage for the '34, 25w, divided by the voltage obtained with the fixture, and multiplied that number by .5 for
50%, .6 for 60% & .7 for 70%. EG; GTM's both read 463 volts. Divide 25 (el34 design
watts) by 463 = .053996, times your % factor, say .5 for 50%, = .026998 or 27mv,
rounding up. I clipped the black 'gator clip to the center prong of the 3 prong bias gizmo, then the red 'gator clip to the right or left prong. With the chassis upside down,(tubes down) and the controls facing me, the right bias pot is for the left prong, and the left bias pot is for the right prong. The Gator clips let me keep a hand
in the pocket while I was over in scary land with the screwdriver poking at the bias
adjustment pots. Before I get into my findings on the tubes; do what you have to
to feel safe doing this. But! I in no way deem any of what I did completely safe or
accept any responsibility for damages or bodily harm incurred from the use of any
part of the description herein. It is not complete and intended for part information
only. There are dangerous voltages present in amplifiers. No safety information or
recommendations are presented here. Safety information about working on/in amps
is all over the WWW. Read it. If you don't feel comfortable doing this stuff, take
your amp to someone who does. It's not worth getting an electric perm over.
The 3 remaining pairs of tubes, the GTM's, the stock sino's & the St. Pete =C='s
were all matched perfectly. Whoda thunk it. The GTM's were first up, and yielded
usable tones at 33.5ma, and 38ma. Those points being roughly 63% and 72%.
All tubes were started at 50% and run up about 2ma and tested by PLAYING through
the intended speakers, 'till roughly 70% had been reached. Eg; GTM's 50%=27ma,
then 29ma, then 31ma, etc........
I also switched to triode mode at points to check the effect it had on the tone.
I'm going to use the GTM's at 72% on "low power" as the increase in wattage due
to the 72% gave good bass response on low power, and low power made the top
end smoother, no spikes. Good Marshall crunch in the middle, a little open.
A good hard rock tube....if they last at 72%. That has been the bad rap on those.
Durability issues while running hot. But they sound good there.
Next were the stock Sino's. Try as I did, I couldn't get rid of the percussive highs
completely at any setting. There was one range that was usable on low power,
around 68%(37mv). They might be good for "modern" stuff. Smoother bass and mids, but the highs.........there are ways, but not for me. Mids too smooth. late compression. 30mv was a lot like 37mv w/o the compression. Best headroom, loud.
The =C='s had the lowest headroom and had good sounds at 3 or 4 places on the
mv climb. Smooth w/bloom and harmonics all over the place at 30mv's, middle started
to open up at 32mv's (Billy who, G?) he must be running these things in his amps....
compression audible at 34mv, working mostly on the mids and highs, highs still smooth.
These tubes had the smoothest highs almost all the way up the mv scale.
At 36mv, even more compression, but the mids opened up and a harsh overtone began to appear. Just under 35mv was the ticket on these. Wow. High and low power.
A little smoother in the mids than I like, but everything else is so musical, you forget
about it. So........
The GTM's have the Marshall crunch in spades, but lack the nuances of the =C='s.
They pinch harmonics wonderfully and do have some overtones and may bloom when
they burn in (the=C='s wer cryoed and burned in remember) and are cheap and plentiful as of now. Wheather they last runnin' hot remains to be seen. I have a gut
feeling they will cut well with the band, where the =C='s might be pearls before swine
and their musicallity may well be lost in the din, Y'know?
All 3 sets of tubes, at some setting diff. for each pair, had nasty overtones in the mids, but they dialed out. Some use an ocilloscope to bias tubes and this "notch"
(unharmonious overtones) is visible on the scope and can be dialed out watching
the wave form. Who sez dis ain't syence? No scope? Use ya Ear!
I'm gonna use the GTM's this week at rehearsal and gig on the wknd.
My replacement Svets are gonna be here too late this week, and I'm burned out on
this for now anyway. But I wanna do a Svet/GTM/=C= shootout next week. I might
try to obtain a pair of the TungSol 34's when I order more cheap JJ83's in a coupla
weeks. When I settle on basic power tube grindage, I'll go back through the pre's one more time just for grins. {;-)


----------



## Dizzyg12

wangchung said:


> Good day! I went thru what is probably the minimum one has to do in order to sample
> what powertubes have to offer sonically. I obtained a "voltage" probe that does one
> tube at a time and plugs into a multimeter. You have to have a meter that reads 500v
> dc for that. I made 2 bias probes for my meter by cutting off the plain probes and soldered on insulated aligator clips. They stay on the bias pins freeing your hands. Your meter needs a 200mv(m) dc setting to read the bias signal coming from the bias pins.
> Tubes tested were Svetlana, the stock Sino's, a new pair of GTM's (Mullard clones)
> and some (nos) cryo/burned in =C='s. The bad; one of the Svets was bad. (New pair
> coming.) The good;the GTM's are staying in the amp.
> I used the voltage fixture to get volt readings from each pair of tubes. Then computed 50, 60 & 70% "bias"mv points using the design wattage for the '34, 25w, divided by the voltage obtained with the fixture, and multiplied that number by .5 for
> 50%, .6 for 60% & .7 for 70%. EG; GTM's both read 463 volts. Divide 25 (el34 design
> watts) by 463 = .053996, times your % factor, say .5 for 50%, = .026998 or 27mv,
> rounding up. I clipped the black 'gator clip to the center prong of the 3 prong bias gizmo, then the red 'gator clip to the right or left prong. With the chassis upside down,(tubes down) and the controls facing me, the right bias pot is for the left prong, and the left bias pot is for the right prong. The Gator clips let me keep a hand
> in the pocket while I was over in scary land with the screwdriver poking at the bias
> adjustment pots. Before I get into my findings on the tubes; do what you have to
> to feel safe doing this. But! I in no way deem any of what I did completely safe or
> accept any responsibility for damages or bodily harm incurred from the use of any
> part of the description herein. It is not complete and intended for part information
> only. There are dangerous voltages present in amplifiers. No safety information or
> recommendations are presented here. Safety information about working on/in amps
> is all over the WWW. Read it. If you don't feel comfortable doing this stuff, take
> your amp to someone who does. It's not worth getting an electric perm over.
> The 3 remaining pairs of tubes, the GTM's, the stock sino's & the St. Pete =C='s
> were all matched perfectly. Whoda thunk it. The GTM's were first up, and yielded
> usable tones at 33.5ma, and 38ma. Those points being roughly 63% and 72%.
> All tubes were started at 50% and run up about 2ma and tested by PLAYING through
> the intended speakers, 'till roughly 70% had been reached. Eg; GTM's 50%=27ma,
> then 29ma, then 31ma, etc........
> I also switched to triode mode at points to check the effect it had on the tone.
> I'm going to use the GTM's at 72% on "low power" as the increase in wattage due
> to the 72% gave good bass response on low power, and low power made the top
> end smoother, no spikes. Good Marshall crunch in the middle, a little open.
> A good hard rock tube....if they last at 72%. That has been the bad rap on those.
> Durability issues while running hot. But they sound good there.
> Next were the stock Sino's. Try as I did, I couldn't get rid of the percussive highs
> completely at any setting. There was one range that was usable on low power,
> around 68%(37mv). They might be good for "modern" stuff. Smoother bass and mids, but the highs.........there are ways, but not for me. Mids too smooth. late compression. 30mv was a lot like 37mv w/o the compression. Best headroom, loud.
> The =C='s had the lowest headroom and had good sounds at 3 or 4 places on the
> mv climb. Smooth w/bloom and harmonics all over the place at 30mv's, middle started
> to open up at 32mv's (Billy who, G?) he must be running these things in his amps....
> compression audible at 34mv, working mostly on the mids and highs, highs still smooth.
> These tubes had the smoothest highs almost all the way up the mv scale.
> At 36mv, even more compression, but the mids opened up and a harsh overtone began to appear. Just under 35mv was the ticket on these. Wow. High and low power.
> A little smoother in the mids than I like, but everything else is so musical, you forget
> about it. So........
> The GTM's have the Marshall crunch in spades, but lack the nuances of the =C='s.
> They pinch harmonics wonderfully and do have some overtones and may bloom when
> they burn in (the=C='s wer cryoed and burned in remember) and are cheap and plentiful as of now. Wheather they last runnin' hot remains to be seen. I have a gut
> feeling they will cut well with the band, where the =C='s might be pearls before swine
> and their musicallity may well be lost in the din, Y'know?
> All 3 sets of tubes, at some setting diff. for each pair, had nasty overtones in the mids, but they dialed out. Some use an ocilloscope to bias tubes and this "notch"
> (unharmonious overtones) is visible on the scope and can be dialed out watching
> the wave form. Who sez dis ain't syence? No scope? Use ya Ear!
> I'm gonna use the GTM's this week at rehearsal and gig on the wknd.
> My replacement Svets are gonna be here too late this week, and I'm burned out on
> this for now anyway. But I wanna do a Svet/GTM/=C= shootout next week. I might
> try to obtain a pair of the TungSol 34's when I order more cheap JJ83's in a coupla
> weeks. When I settle on basic power tube grindage, I'll go back through the pre's one more time just for grins. {;-)



Wow dude that is an insane amount of work and info! Wish I had that kind of time. Thanks for sharing though. I wouldn't have even thought to test half vs full mode when changing tubes and biasing. I play mostly in FW mode so I'm not too concerned about HW but it's nice to know that one should check and set bias according to what sounds best in the modes they're in most. 

Would you say there's a happy medium that can be reached between the two modes with the tubes you tested?


----------



## Duffy49

broomy said:


> Nice to hear i'm not the only one experiencing hiss issues, and also nice to see some of you have solved it by replacing one of the pre-amp tubes.
> 
> 2 JJECC83's due through the letterbox tomorrow so I will find out then. Fingers very much crossed...
> 
> Anybody who has solved the hiss, what tube did you use? I really hope you'll say JJ's now I've bought them!!!!
> 
> Have noticed after hours of scrutiny last night that the hiss is always there, worse with increased gain/volume, but not noticeable while playing, and that my guitar is the hum culprit. if I unplug guitar there is the background hiss and a faint low level hum. If I plug guitar in, there is noticeable hum (all on ultra channel, and on higher gain setting in cruncH). Maybe time for new pickups? It's a semi (1996 Epi Sheraton II all stock electronics)so electrical work is a pain in the ass.
> 
> Anyway, needless to say if the tube thing doesn't work, I may be contacting Marshall........
> 
> Actually I think i'll contact them regardless




With every very high gain amp I've played there has been more than enough hiss. When I turn the gain/volume down the hiss diminishes; but the whole idea is to have some cool sounding gain and overdrive - so I accept the hiss.

The semi-hollows are also likely to show additional feedback and hiss very quickly.

Have you tried plugging your Sheraton into the amp, setting it on the high gain hissy settings and then turning the volume knobs all the way off on the guitar? Does the hissing become less prominent?

If the hissing becomes less prominent when you turn the volumes on the guitar all the way off then you know that the pickups are introducing additional hiss into the situation. Single coils will hiss like heck. There are some humbuckers that will hiss a lot less than others.

I'm sure that you know that for every (+) there is a (-). Eliminating or reducing substantially the amps hiss is going to also reduce something else, like the quality of your overdrive tone or something else, sensitivity to pick attack, etc.

I think, personally, that your amp is acting as I would expect it to sound when on the Lead voices and even when the clean crunch button is engaged and the volume turned up.

As I said, I'm not bothered by the hiss and accept it as part of the whole high gain thing. I am getting awesome sounding overdrive sounds and really like the clean channel with the crunch button engaged. That is how I'm playing it now with my Fender '72 Custom Telecaster RI with the Fender Wide Range Humbucker big humbucker at the neck and a traditional telecaster single coil at the bridge; with 250k pots. This guitar sounds really clear and beautiful thru the amp on clean/crunch, even the WRHB sounds super clear and nice. The bridge single coil tele pickup is a very nice one and it sounds super nice as well. I think this is the best this '72 Custom tele has sounded thru any amp so far. I am definitely digging it. 

For me, the overall performance and quality of the sound of the amp far exceeds any potential concern the hiss may introduce. I don't even worry about the hiss and just turn the volume all the way off on the guitar when I'm not playing.

A volume pedal would also make a super great tool for dealing with amp hiss.

Good luck. I just want to let you know that I'm digging what is going on with my amps irregardless of the hiss.


----------



## Micky

Maybe some examples of the hiss are in order.

Post something on SoundCloud or Youtube and let us hear the before and after.

Then we can compare with what we have...


----------



## broomy

Good idea, will try and post something soon, off out jamming tonight......

The 2 JJECC83S's turned up today. Tried swapping out each one at a time- thanks for all the advice people- hiss still there but I am coming to terms with the fact that that's the way it's meant to be I guess. I just wonder what an engineer will think when it comes to recording......Doesn't bother me jamming in the band so that's the main thing.

I have put the JJ's in v1 and v2, will check it out tonight and see how it sounds. Anybody out there think there are better positions to install them in if you've only got two??? (couldn't afford a whole set, jeesus I just cleared the bank buying the amp!!!!!) Also, could power tubes/bias or anything else cause hiss or is that unlikely?

Also, any other hiss elimination advice would be greatly received, although I hear y'all- if you got "that valve sound" you gotta expect hiss. And yes, I have "that valve sound"! The Sheraton sounds amazing through it, despite it needing a major re-fret!!!!


----------



## Micky

V2 and V3 to try and tame the hiss, but I have never been a big fan of JJ other than to have a couple as spares.


----------



## broomy

ER if you've never been a fan of JJ's why did you recommend them in a previous post?

Did some research and eurotubes banged on about how good the JJ EEC83s's were so I thought i'd go for them. Surely they're better than the stock tubes? Or am I wrong?

Also had the realisation I've got an original 1986 JCM800 MKII (awesome but too loud)which probably has good tubes in... i'm gonna dig it out now.

Shit i'm getting drawn into this tube rolling stuff pretty quickly, bye bye spare time


----------



## broomy

Also, you say v2&3 to elimate hiss? I thought all sound originates in v1 then amplified by 2 and 3? 

I know, i'm an inexperienced valve virgin, I don't understand


----------



## Micky

broomy said:


> ER if you've never been a fan of JJ's why did you recommend them in a previous post?



Because they are inexpensive and easy to get.

If you really want my recommendation, I would go with a NOS Mullard in V1, and see my previous posts in this thread for the rest. They are expensive.

Not trying to steer you wrong, just keep you up and running.


----------



## Micky

broomy said:


> Also, you say v2&3 to elimate hiss? I thought all sound originates in v1 then amplified by 2 and 3?
> 
> I know, i'm an inexperienced valve virgin, I don't understand


You are correct. But you need to check all three preamp tubes, as well as the PI (V4) to do a complete job. Check power tubes as well.

I know, you shouldn't have to on a new amp. But I think if your Classic channel is clean without hiss, you may have unrealistic expectations on the Ultra channel.

Again, examples of what you are experiencing will help.

I am not like some people here who will suggest you dump $250 worth of tubes into a brand new amp. I am all for diagnosing and eliminating the problem, and there is a logical, methodical process for that.


----------



## wangchung

Dizzyg12 said:


> Wow dude that is an insane amount of work and info! Wish I had that kind of time. Thanks for sharing though. I wouldn't have even thought to test half vs full mode when changing tubes and biasing. I play mostly in FW mode so I'm not too concerned about HW but it's nice to know that one should check and set bias according to what sounds best in the modes they're in most.
> 
> Would you say there's a happy medium that can be reached between the two modes with the tubes you tested?



Yes. The sonic effect that "low power" seems to have is largely percieved
loudness. There is some apparent "softening" of the overall "edge", but it
can be dialed back in with the amp controls if you want it. Out of a curiosity to understand the mechanism of the hi/lo power thing, and if it was some trick on the tube and if it was safe, I found myself in audiophile land. I eventually came across a history of the el34 that stated it was
designed to run in triode(?) or pentode(?) mode. There are several high
end "audiophile" amplifiers designed to run el34's in triode (lo power)
mode with no option to run it in pentode mode. And that there are several
ways to switch between them in one amp, and that the one that Marshall
uses is good. No worries. It's all good. There was more variation in percieved loudness on some tubes, especially the ones with higher headroom, when dialing up the wattage thru biasing than switching (power) modes. The GTM's were noticably louder when going from 60%
to 70%. The stock Sino's grew steadily louder as well. It really correlates
to when compression becomes audible as well. Once you reach compression you start trading loudness for compression it seems.
I prefer running the amp hot in low power. It makes the controls more
usable with a wider range of adjustment/tone shaping possibilities.
This amp is a great design IMHO. I don't care where it was put together.


----------



## guitarman3001

Dizzyg12 said:


> It's physically impossible to get the ring of the chassis hole to fit inside the groove of the rubber grommet. And then get tube to fit. Trust me I tried.



I don't think the grommet is supposed to go inside the chassis hole but I tried it anyway. It's definitely not impossible to put the tube back in if the grommet is in the chassis hole but a little creativity was needed. I put a little bit of dish soap on the tube and it slid right in.


----------



## MarshallDog

guitarman3001 said:


> I don't think the grommet is supposed to go inside the chassis hole but I tried it anyway. It's definitely not impossible to put the tube back in if the grommet is in the chassis hole but a little creativity was needed. I put a little bit of dish soap on the tube and it slid right in.



When I had my JVM 410H, I put a little spit in it and it slid in also. Yes, I am referring to the tube and nothing else...!!!
The JVM 410H had a shield over V1 and then the rubber grommets for the rest of them.


----------



## Skylarkpilot

Regarding speakers.....again.....
I liked what I was hearing about the Eminence Texas Heat, has anyone tried the Celestion G12H75 Creamback in one of the DSL's yet ? I liked what I was hearing in a side-by-side test against the classic Greenbacks on another site. Also the Creambacks are made in a 65 and 75W versions, as the Seventy 80 is rated at 80W does the slightly lower wattage of the Celestion cause a problem ? Any ideas gratefully received as I'm still a bit new to 'modding'.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

guitarman3001 said:


> I don't think the grommet is supposed to go inside the chassis hole but I tried it anyway. It's definitely not impossible to put the tube back in if the grommet is in the chassis hole but a little creativity was needed. I put a little bit of dish soap on the tube and it slid right in.


Yes that sounds right, mine came with the grommet INSIDE the chassis, the little groove around the grommet fits in there so why the groove otherwise? Kind of a bitch to line up the pins though with it in there.


----------



## CarlosPrex

CarlosPrex said:


> Well
> I see some people like V30...I can get a Vintage 30 from an Orange Rocker 30 that a friend has...but not sure if there´s just one type and it will do the job



Just for the record
I tried side by side Vintage 30 vs 70/80

Didn´t like the Vintage 30
In fact, I think the DSL40C reacts much better with the stock 70/80 so by the moment I´ll keep the stock speaker

...let´s see about those WGS

Carlos


----------



## MarshallDog

Skylarkpilot said:


> Regarding speakers.....again.....
> I liked what I was hearing about the Eminence Texas Heat, has anyone tried the Celestion G12H75 Creamback in one of the DSL's yet ? I liked what I was hearing in a side-by-side test against the classic Greenbacks on another site. Also the Creambacks are made in a 65 and 75W versions, as the Seventy 80 is rated at 80W does the slightly lower wattage of the Celestion cause a problem ? Any ideas gratefully received as I'm still a bit new to 'modding'.



I'll make you a great deal on a barely used G12H-75 Creamback if interested? Just pm me...


----------



## jbailes

Skylarkpilot said:


> Regarding speakers.....again.....
> I liked what I was hearing about the Eminence Texas Heat, has anyone tried the Celestion G12H75 Creamback in one of the DSL's yet ? I liked what I was hearing in a side-by-side test against the classic Greenbacks on another site. Also the Creambacks are made in a 65 and 75W versions, as the Seventy 80 is rated at 80W does the slightly lower wattage of the Celestion cause a problem ? Any ideas gratefully received as I'm still a bit new to 'modding'.


 
If I can chime in, if anyone has experience with the Lynchback speaker, I'd appreciate hearing your impressions.


----------



## broomy

OK, JJ's v1 and v2 and hiss reduced. Sounded pretty good at practice too, especially cranking the crunch channel there were some special moments! Hiss was unnoticeable but I did notice even on 20w mode it was reeeeeeeeealy loud! Got another jam tonight so will really decide tonight but surely JJ's a step up from the stock valves?

Will get onto Marshall about the rubber gromit, sounds like the far east labour may be getting a bit lax! 

Opened up my JCM800, got two electro harmonix USA stamped EL34's. Are they good?/worth anything. The three pre-amp valves however have all the text worn off them apart from "ECC" in white lettering. Will post pics soon as i'm curious if anyone can identify them. Or if anyone knows what was stock in these back in the day? pins are a bit corroded so may well be the originals.

Tempted by the whole c19 mod but I like my warranty


----------



## broomy

The amp was loud, not the hiss. Just re-read that!


----------



## MarshallDog

I got my Belton tube shields and they installed w/o issues as expected. I cranked the amp and gain higher than ever with absolutely no hiss at all and who knows, maybe these shields will also extended the life of the tubes. Now the amp looks complete IMO, I am a bit anal with my gear. Pics below...


----------



## MarshallDog

broomy said:


> OK, JJ's v1 and v2 and hiss reduced. Sounded pretty good at practice too, especially cranking the crunch channel there were some special moments! Hiss was unnoticeable but I did notice even on 20w mode it was reeeeeeeeealy loud! Got another jam tonight so will really decide tonight but surely JJ's a step up from the stock valves?
> 
> Will get onto Marshall about the rubber gromit, sounds like the far east labour may be getting a bit lax!
> 
> Opened up my JCM800, got two electro harmonix USA stamped EL34's. Are they good?/worth anything. The three pre-amp valves however have all the text worn off them apart from "ECC" in white lettering. Will post pics soon as i'm curious if anyone can identify them. Or if anyone knows what was stock in these back in the day? pins are a bit corroded so may well be the originals.
> 
> Tempted by the whole c19 mod but I like my warranty



I have tried many, many tubes in my 1983 JCM 2204 and have settled on JJ's across the board. IMO, they tame this beast making it sound richer, thicker and reduces some of those high, high ear piercing frequencies.


----------



## Studio270

My preamp tubes came in today and holy crap I can't believe the difference in the sound.

I put a JJ ECC803s in V1. 
C19 clipped.
EL34s next. Probably JJs
Waiting to find the right speaker.

I have 1 JJECC83s, where would be a good place to put it? Stop be nice. 

If anyone can help me out with the schematic it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks everyone for your help.


----------



## MarshallDog

Studio270 said:


> My preamp tubes came in today and holy crap I can't believe the difference in the sound.
> 
> I put a JJ ECC803s in V1.
> C19 clipped.
> EL34s next. Probably JJs
> Waiting to find the right speaker.
> 
> I have 1 JJECC83s, where would be a good place to put it? Stop be nice.
> 
> If anyone can help me out with the schematic it would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks everyone for your help.



For what it is worth, I love JJ's and Mullards and have been swapping them in and out of this amp a bit. Although I LOVE all JJ's in my JCM & JMP, I just sort of realized that all JJ's make the DSL 40C a bit to tame/dark. Yes, you can compensate with the EQ but I try to do comp's with everything being the same. All JJ's seem to have more character in, a good way, while the Mullards maybe lack just a little character but have a bit more bite in this amp. It puzzles me and I am not the type who likes to mess around with mixing and matching pre-amp tubes as this can be life consuming, I like to keep it as simple as possible and play. Anyway, let me know how it goes for you and what you settle on...

I must say that I absolutely LOVE this little beast of an amp!!! I play it all the time and still can't believe it retails for only 699.00 and I got it through a friend at GC for 560.00!!!! Unbelievable!!!


----------



## Dizzyg12

Studio270 said:


> My preamp tubes came in today and holy crap I can't believe the difference in the sound.
> 
> I put a JJ ECC803s in V1.
> C19 clipped.
> EL34s next. Probably JJs
> Waiting to find the right speaker.
> 
> I have 1 JJECC83s, where would be a good place to put it? Stop be nice.
> 
> If anyone can help me out with the schematic it would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks everyone for your help.




I think the one I put in my v3 spot was an 83s. My understanding is that they are an improved version of the 83, being less microphonic, less noisy and therefore good choice for high gain amps.


----------



## Micky

MarshallDog said:


> I got my Belton tube shields and they installed w/o issues as expected. I cranked the amp and gain higher than ever with absolutely no hiss at all and who knows, maybe these shields will also extended the life of the tubes. Now the amp looks complete IMO, I am a bit anal with my gear. Pics below...



Please provide the link!
Others may wanna do this!


----------



## MarshallDog

Micky said:


> Please provide the link!
> Others may wanna do this!



If anyone is interested in purchasing a set of these Belton tube shields, you can find them at The Tube Store. Here is the link: www.thetubestore.com - Belton Tube Shield for Chassis Cut-Out

They cost 2.50 each plus shipping. The only catch is there is a 20.00 min order so I added a pre-amp tube to the order. They are so simple to install, just insert them into the existing cut-outs and give them a slight twist, done. I sprayed a little WD-40 on the o-rings so they twisted with ease.


----------



## Micky

What about the installation process?
Can you describe it?
Could a newbie handle it?


----------



## MrDowntown

I have been trying to play catch up on the DSL40C, via this (now) 818 post thread....damn my adult add.

I digress.

Are there any soundclips of the 40C running through an extension cab? They could very well be here, and I have just breezed right by it.

mdt


----------



## Rocktane

I could of sworn that I've seen a video with the 40C through a 4X12, but I'll be damned if I can find it. However, I did come acrross these two videos that I had not seen before and thought were interesting.

Footswtichable Lead 1/Lead 2
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxwYTru4LD0]Marshall dsl40c combo with mods - YouTube[/ame]

C19 changed to 500pF
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Hpl3oSO4TA]Marshall DSL40C : Mods - YouTube[/ame]

Belong to anybody here?


----------



## broomy

Second jam and it's settled- I am lovin' this amp!  The JJ's in 1 & 2 have definitely made it sound sweeter and I've discovered Lead 2 with the gain down at 2ish but cranking the volume 5+ has finally given that roar I was expecting all along. Not a fan of masses of gain but I like beef! Still use OD1 a lot but 2 is where the meat is. Treble on 1 and presence on 4, res. 10. On 20w mode. Crunch channel with gain and vol both at 5 is pretty sweet marshally stuff too. Balancing the channels EQ-wise is hit and miss, it's true, but I have found you can use the gain/volume to shape the crunch channel with a little patience. My Bluesbreaker pedal works a treat too for lead work, kinda like having footswitchable OD1/2 (which this should have, along with Crunch/Clean) but **** it, I love my amp, simple.

Thanks to all for the valve advice- JJEEC83S is the way to go, I will be getting more, maybe gold pins.......how do I post pics on here? got the pics of the tubes from my JCM I need identifying.....

Think i'm gonna go piss the neighbours off Excellent


----------



## dmagalhaes

It's interesting that so many of you are putting JJ's in your amp while it's probable that you already had JJ's in there. Mine came with 4 Marshall branded JJ ECC83S tubes so if your tubes had red lettering, they were already JJ's.


----------



## Micky

dmagalhaes said:


> It's interesting that so many of you are putting JJ's in your amp while it's probable that you already had JJ's in there. Mine came with 4 Marshall branded JJ ECC83S tubes so if your tubes had red lettering, they were already JJ's.



JJs but Vietnamese made special for this amp. (According to Marty)


----------



## saxon68

Vietnam has tube factories??


----------



## Pumpkin88

Rocktane said:


> I could of sworn that I've seen a video with the 40C through a 4X12, but I'll be damned if I can find it.



Thats something I would like to see. For example, I've heard the 100H but I'd like to hear the 40C to compare the two.


----------



## somms68

I run my DSL40C through a 1960A and it is awesome and VERY LOUD! I'll try to get a clip when I have the time.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Dizzyg12 said:


> It's physically impossible to get the ring of the chassis hole to fit inside the groove of the rubber grommet. And then get tube to fit. Trust me I tried.



Just did it. Put the grommet inside chassis with the groove in grommet hooked inside hole then installed my Mullard in V1. A little spittle rubbed inside ring and done. Will see how it sounds tomorrow. Might try a JJ in V2, right now have a Philips (Amperex) in V2....


----------



## wangchung

Wang here........Half of V2 in the crunch channel gain. You can voice it somewhat with that tube. FWIW, I've run a "GE", Westinghouse and a Philips NOS 12ax7's in various slots in various amps over the last couple of years and they're still in my tackle box. Maybe I got 3 dogs, but they tested like new.
I did try a JJ 5751 in V2 and it made everything boomy with crunch engaged. If I was going to go for the quick and dirty with the 40c, I'd go all JJ 83s in V1 thru 4, GTM's
5-6 rated or similarly rated Svetlana's for the power section, a 20 or 47pf cap in C19
and a Hellatone 60 12. Too crispy? A creamback maybe? More louder? CL80 maybe?
How's the 20pf cap workin' out for ya MarshallDog?


----------



## MarshallDog

wangchung said:


> Wang here........Half of V2 in the crunch channel gain. You can voice it somewhat with that tube. FWIW, I've run a "GE", Westinghouse and a Philips NOS 12ax7's in various slots in various amps over the last couple of years and they're still in my tackle box. Maybe I got 3 dogs, but they tested like new.
> I did try a JJ 5751 in V2 and it made everything boomy with crunch engaged. If I was going to go for the quick and dirty with the 40c, I'd go all JJ 83s in V1 thru 4, GTM's
> 5-6 rated or similarly rated Svetlana's for the power section, a 20 or 47pf cap in C19
> and a Hellatone 60 12. Too crispy? A creamback maybe? More louder? CL80 maybe?
> How's the 20pf cap workin' out for ya MarshallDog?



The 20 pF cap is not working out so good anymore. Matter of fact I have slowly increased it now to 100 pF. It seems to me like tone changes from day to day and looking back now a 20 pF was WAY to dark in C19, not sure what I was thinking. I went from a 20 to a 47 to a 68 to the 100 pF. My goal to give Channel 2 a bit more balls over Channel 1 w/o it sounding completely different. FWIW, I now have increased C4 to 220 pF (which I never thought I would do) which now makes it sound more JMP/JMP and when in Clean it has a bit more chime to it.  Keep in mind I play with a LPS's, Creamback G12M-65, the Classic Tone hoke installed and JJ E34L's and ECC83S installed. Hopefully I am now there?????


----------



## Skylarkpilot

Well, had my pre-amp section out and the black grommet thing on V1 is just pushed down to the chassis but definitely not 'in' the chassis. I don't think this is slovenly build, I think the grommet is just a damper so there's really no need to get it rammed in. Probably more a case of Marshall having some of these knocking around and using them rather than specifically buying dampers.


----------



## wangchung

MarshallDog said:


> The 20 pF cap is not working out so good anymore. Matter of fact I have slowly increased it now to 100 pF. It seems to me like tone changes from day to day and looking back now a 20 pF was WAY to dark in C19, not sure what I was thinking. I went from a 20 to a 47 to a 68 to the 100 pF. My goal to give Channel 2 a bit more balls over Channel 1 w/o it sounding completely different. FWIW, I now have increased C4 to 220 pF (which I never thought I would do) which now makes it sound more JMP/JMP and when in Clean it has a bit more chime to it. Keep in mind I play with a LPS's, Creamback G12M-65, the Classic Tone hoke installed and JJ E34L's and ECC83S installed. Hopefully I am now there?????



MD; I know exactly what you mean about C19. Reducing the value seems to not only tame the spikes, but rob a little crunch from the upper mids. I play 'Pauls too. JJ's in all holes would tend to moderate the high end too methinks. I'm running a 68pf now, I was hoping to get some of that crispy
back with the tubes and the V30, which I did. But I think I'm gonna add
a 100pf in parallel for 168pf next wk when I test the new prod Svet34's.
I just finished playing my Gold-top w/P90's thru it, A SDP90-3 in the bridge,
and it could have used a bit more top. That seals adding more pf to C19
for me. But I'm playing a room tonight that soaks up sound and will be
running it up higher than usual. Sometimes that can affect things, we'll see.


----------



## MarshallDog

wangchung said:


> MD; I know exactly what you mean about C19. Reducing the value seems to not only tame the spikes, but rob a little crunch from the upper mids. I play 'Pauls too. JJ's in all holes would tend to moderate the high end too methinks. I'm running a 68pf now, I was hoping to get some of that crispy
> back with the tubes and the V30, which I did. But I think I'm gonna add
> a 100pf in parallel for 168pf next wk when I test the new prod Svet34's.
> I just finished playing my Gold-top w/P90's thru it, A SDP90-3 in the bridge,
> and it could have used a bit more top. That seals adding more pf to C19
> for me. But I'm playing a room tonight that soaks up sound and will be
> running it up higher than usual. Sometimes that can affect things, we'll see.



Seems like we are very close to the same page and I have a few questions/considerations for you:

1. Have you ever tried Mullards? I have and I am torn between them and JJ's.
2. What do you think about the Crunch Channel and C4? I have since raise this one to 220 pF and with JJ's it seems pretty dam good.
3. The Tube Store Preferred Series 7025 12AX7's will really add some highs to it and they are tough tubes...

Just wondering what your feedback might be...

Here's what I do when it comes to cap swapping...I will solder in some leads to the PCB eyelets then I can easily solder on different caps to these leads w/o hurting the board. The next time I have her opened up, I will post a few pics, it makes it really easy to swap caps...


----------



## wangchung

MarshallDog said:


> Seems like we are very close to the same page and I have a few questions/considerations for you:
> 
> 1. Have you ever tried Mullards? I have and I am torn between them and JJ's.
> 2. What do you think about the Crunch Channel and C4? I have since raise this one to 220 pF and with JJ's it seems pretty dam good.
> 3. The Tube Store Preferred Series 7025 12AX7's will really add some highs to it and they are tough tubes...
> 
> Just wondering what your feedback might be...
> 
> Here's what I do when it comes to cap swapping...I will solder in some leads to the PCB eyelets then I can easily solder on different caps to these leads w/o hurting the board. The next time I have her opened up, I will post a few pics, it makes it really easy to swap caps...


 
Hey MD;
I'm running Groove tubes "Mullards" (5-6) in my amp now, the "re-issues".
They've got around 30 hours on 'em and have gotten better sonically.
More bloom and more harmonics than when first installed. A little more
shimmer on the top end too. Sounded great at the gig last night. But!
i am going to increase C19 to 136pf by tacking on another 68pf cap in
parallel. I have left long leads just in case of this. The GTM's; I'm going
back in to try the new Svetlana's I got last week, But I'm gonna check the bias on the GTM's to see if it's drifted. I saw that New Sensor has a "Mullard" mfr. by Reflektor. Are these the ones you are going to try?
The audiophiles are giving them good reviews when used in those types
of amps. Smoother mids with even response was the general concencus.
I've run the reg. JJ's, (not the L's) in my DSL50 and took them out in favor
of a pair of early 2000's Svets. That was back then. When they went west
I replaced them w/=C='s. I like an more open mid growl when playing 2-string or more chords that cleans up somewhat on single notes with
a smooth high. The =C='s with a mix of JJ83's and Sovtek WB's do it in
that amp. 
Channel 1 has an interesting role as it uses half of V2 when you push the
crunch button. The other half of V2 is the 1st gain cascade stage, which
contributes some to the character of channel 2. At first I tried to get a
good crunchy rhythm sound with the crunch engaged, and the lead tone
in ultra 1, but abandoned that after putting a JJ 5751 in V2, which seemed
to make the balance between the 2 channels even worse. I went for a
usable "clean" sound out of channel 1 that is semi-crunchy, and the good
ultra1 lead sound. For "rock" rhythm sounds I use an old Marshall Drivemaster w/channel 1. An amp tech I talked to mentioned C4 as being
the "bassman"/Fender original value of 100pf and that there was room for
experimentation there. I haven't tried anything yet, but it's a 50v cap and
all Ratshak stores have 100pf & 50pf 50v caps in stock. That's what a lot
of readers seem to be putting in C19. They're rated a 150v so why they
put 50v on the package I don't know. What value above 100pf did you
notice an increase in highs at? Is another cap in parallel giving 150pf
effective, or is 200pf the minimum for effect IYO?
The Tung-Sol 12ax7 I got from TTS reminded me of a good 7025. For
a short plate tube it sounded quite full, somewhat reduced gain, but a
quailty sound. I may get another. I think the JJ 803s is a good tube too.
I was quite surprised at the sonic shaping that was available thru biasing
the power tubes. I'm hoping the Svets are going to give me the sound
I remeber them having.


----------



## saxon68

Keep in mind your speaker is breaking in also as you play more, mine had a significant change in sound after a couple months of playing.


----------



## Ratchet

Hi to all, Im another newbie/valve virgin who has been poking around this site for a while, and found it invaluable for dl40c info, so im now a member. I bought a dsl40c (first valve amp after 30yrs solid state) and hated it for the first 8 months. I couldnt get it to sound like a marshall should, the tone controls did little and the gain sounded like mud. After reading through lots of posts i decided to have a go at biasing the amp. I measured a plate voltage of 481volts and biased each side to 36.3ma. (can someone tell me if I got this right ? ). Now this amp is awesome, It sounds like a marshall should and I love it. The factory bias was 42 and 45
Can anyone tell me if you calculate bias for 25w per tube or 20w per tube, for this amp., and how do two 25 watt tubes add up to 40 watts ?
Did the vintage 30 speaker swap, nice but undecided yet
tried the c19 mod but put it back, 
some nos tubes next.
Special thanks to MartyStrat54 and Micky, you posts were very informative
Cheers.


----------



## Skylarkpilot

Hi all,
Just got my Amp Head dual bias tool so decided to try it first on the stock EL34's with factory set bias. 
Tube one was showing a plate voltage of 447 and bias of 36.
Tube two was showing a plate voltage of 446 and bias of 33.
Using the calculation of 25W / plate voltage multiplied by .6 (for sixty percent) gives 33.
This would seem to indicate Marshall Biasing the amp at 60%. 
To those in the know, does it appear I am making the correct calculations. If so I can go ahead and stick my new tubes in.
By the way, the amp-head tool is pretty easy to use. Everything can be plugged together before turning the amp on, and there is no need to alter any leads whilst taking the measurements. The instructions that come with it are pretty straightforward.
Just curious Micky, what % did you bias your STR's to ?


----------



## Dizzyg12

Skylarkpilot said:


> Hi all,
> Just got my Amp Head dual bias tool so decided to try it first on the stock EL34's with factory set bias.
> Tube one was showing a plate voltage of 447 and bias of 36.
> Tube two was showing a plate voltage of 446 and bias of 33.
> Using the calculation of 25W / plate voltage multiplied by .6 (for sixty percent) gives 33.
> This would seem to indicate Marshall Biasing the amp at 60%.
> To those in the know, does it appear I am making the correct calculations. If so I can go ahead and stick my new tubes in.
> By the way, the amp-head tool is pretty easy to use. Everything can be plugged together before turning the amp on, and there is no need to alter any leads whilst taking the measurements. The instructions that come with it are pretty straightforward.
> Just curious Micky, what % did you bias your STR's to ?




Seems right to me. My PV was 474 and my bias is set to 37.5 ish


----------



## MarshallDog

wangchung said:


> Hey MD;
> I'm running Groove tubes "Mullards" (5-6) in my amp now, the "re-issues".
> They've got around 30 hours on 'em and have gotten better sonically.
> More bloom and more harmonics than when first installed. A little more
> shimmer on the top end too. Sounded great at the gig last night. But!
> i am going to increase C19 to 136pf by tacking on another 68pf cap in
> parallel. I have left long leads just in case of this. The GTM's; I'm going
> back in to try the new Svetlana's I got last week, But I'm gonna check the bias on the GTM's to see if it's drifted. I saw that New Sensor has a "Mullard" mfr. by Reflektor. Are these the ones you are going to try?
> The audiophiles are giving them good reviews when used in those types
> of amps. Smoother mids with even response was the general concencus.
> I've run the reg. JJ's, (not the L's) in my DSL50 and took them out in favor
> of a pair of early 2000's Svets. That was back then. When they went west
> I replaced them w/=C='s. I like an more open mid growl when playing 2-string or more chords that cleans up somewhat on single notes with
> a smooth high. The =C='s with a mix of JJ83's and Sovtek WB's do it in
> that amp.
> Channel 1 has an interesting role as it uses half of V2 when you push the
> crunch button. The other half of V2 is the 1st gain cascade stage, which
> contributes some to the character of channel 2. At first I tried to get a
> good crunchy rhythm sound with the crunch engaged, and the lead tone
> in ultra 1, but abandoned that after putting a JJ 5751 in V2, which seemed
> to make the balance between the 2 channels even worse. I went for a
> usable "clean" sound out of channel 1 that is semi-crunchy, and the good
> ultra1 lead sound. For "rock" rhythm sounds I use an old Marshall Drivemaster w/channel 1. An amp tech I talked to mentioned C4 as being
> the "bassman"/Fender original value of 100pf and that there was room for
> experimentation there. I haven't tried anything yet, but it's a 50v cap and
> all Ratshak stores have 100pf & 50pf 50v caps in stock. That's what a lot
> of readers seem to be putting in C19. They're rated a 150v so why they
> put 50v on the package I don't know. What value above 100pf did you
> notice an increase in highs at? Is another cap in parallel giving 150pf
> effective, or is 200pf the minimum for effect IYO?
> The Tung-Sol 12ax7 I got from TTS reminded me of a good 7025. For
> a short plate tube it sounded quite full, somewhat reduced gain, but a
> quailty sound. I may get another. I think the JJ 803s is a good tube too.
> I was quite surprised at the sonic shaping that was available thru biasing
> the power tubes. I'm hoping the Svets are going to give me the sound
> I remeber them having.



For me anyway, I like the 100 pF cap in C19. I don't think I would go any higher and will probably stay at that value.

As for C4, I noticed a very small difference in tone when I went from a 68pF then to a 100pF but when I went a 180pf then to a 220pF the tone change became much more noticeable. With all JJ's installed the 220pF sounds good it I went to the Mullards, I might drop it to a 180pF or just tweak the EQ. 

I have tried the Mullard (Reflektor) EL34's and love them. They seem to be just a bit brighter than the JJ's but the JJ's seem to have more character which makes choosing between them tough for me.

So your Amp tech mentioned 100pF for C4 could be a bit low and raising would seem logical or acceptable???

Let me know how you make out with the cap choice...


----------



## Micky

Skylarkpilot said:


> Just curious Micky, what % did you bias your STR's to ?



My DSL40c came from the factory biased at 39.

I set my TAD's to 40.

I find no real noticeable audio difference between 37-42.
At 43 and up I lose a lot of clean headroom.
At 36 and below, it sounds mushy when cranked, but wicked nice for cleans.

And if the bias is unbalanced, I start to hear a little hum.


----------



## MarshallDog

Skylarkpilot said:


> Hi all,
> Just got my Amp Head dual bias tool so decided to try it first on the stock EL34's with factory set bias.
> Tube one was showing a plate voltage of 447 and bias of 36.
> Tube two was showing a plate voltage of 446 and bias of 33.
> Using the calculation of 25W / plate voltage multiplied by .6 (for sixty percent) gives 33.
> This would seem to indicate Marshall Biasing the amp at 60%.
> To those in the know, does it appear I am making the correct calculations. If so I can go ahead and stick my new tubes in.
> By the way, the amp-head tool is pretty easy to use. Everything can be plugged together before turning the amp on, and there is no need to alter any leads whilst taking the measurements. The instructions that come with it are pretty straightforward.
> Just curious Micky, what % did you bias your STR's to ?



I use the online Weber Bias Calculator which calculates the setting at 70% for the give plate voltage and never had an issue yet...


----------



## Thirdeye

Hi everyone I am a new member and a new owner of a DSL40c. This is my first tube amp and I like much more than the MG100HDFX I am replacing. 

There is a lot of info on this thread so I apologize if this has been answered: I am thinking about replacing the speaker. Right now I am thinking of getting a V30 for the combo and using the 70/80 in a closed 1x12 cab. I'm also considering V30's in both. I play mostly harder rock/metal (Tool, Mastodon, Deftones, etc). At this point I'm not messing with tubes or any other mods, not against them just figured I'd start with the speaker.

At input on how to achieve my desired sound would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for the info!


----------



## wangchung

MarshallDog said:


> For me anyway, I like the 100 pF cap in C19. I don't think I would go any higher and will probably stay at that value.
> 
> As for C4, I noticed a very small difference in tone when I went from a 68pF then to a 100pF but when I went a 180pf then to a 220pF the tone change became much more noticeable. With all JJ's installed the 220pF sounds good it I went to the Mullards, I might drop it to a 180pF or just tweak the EQ.
> 
> I have tried the Mullard (Reflektor) EL34's and love them. They seem to be just a bit brighter than the JJ's but the JJ's seem to have more character which makes choosing between them tough for me.
> 
> So your Amp tech mentioned 100pF for C4 could be a bit low and raising would seem logical or acceptable???
> 
> Let me know how you make out with the cap choice...




I agree on 100pf for C19 in general. 68pf lets me run the treble and presence up around 5 tho, which is not a bad thing....
The amp tech just noted that "C4" was a 100pf cap on the Bassman orig. design. The word Bassman prob. the key here, suggesting it might be higher for guitar. I made some little 'gator tipped jumpers last night for
what I hope will be easy-er testing of C4 & 19.
Your dilema between the JJ's and the Reflektor "M''s sounds exactly like
mine with the =C='s and the GTM's. Were you able to try several bias
values? I found what I thought were 2 usable points for each, one "soft"
at a lower Mv, and one "hard" at higher Mv. The higher giving better note
definition in chords it seemed. I went with the GTM's, and they are becoming more "musical" as they burn in. I'm gonna recheck the bias on
those when I pull the chassis to listen to the new prod Svets I got from
TTS, (Canada, good day, aye?) and the diff. caps.
FWIW, I've been sending emails to the Marshall USA service ctr. in Miss..
They've answered everything adequately in a timely fashion. I asked about
the factory power tube bias value and got 35-37Mv from a fellow who wasn't my regular contact, then 33 from the guy who has been answering
my ques.. If they are spec'ing a voltage range I guess it would work, but
if you want the best sound your power tubes have to offer, You really need
to work the range from 50 to 70% while playing through your spkr setup,
IMHO.


----------



## Skylarkpilot

Thanks Micky and MarshallDog.
Plate voltage worked out on the Weber site at 39.9 so I went with Mickys nice round 40.
I must say I was pleased with the Amp Head tool but I'm glad you guys explained way back, that the left pot does the right tube and vice versa. The tool labels the attachments as 1 and 2 so just to avoid errors I put attachment 1 in between the tube and chassis corresponding with Trim 1. That helped. And very small movements on the pots.
Amp and me both still in one piece, thanks again for all the advice.


----------



## wangchung

Ratchet said:


> Hi to all, Im another newbie/valve virgin who has been poking around this site for a while, and found it invaluable for dl40c info, so im now a member. I bought a dsl40c (first valve amp after 30yrs solid state) and hated it for the first 8 months. I couldnt get it to sound like a marshall should, the tone controls did little and the gain sounded like mud. After reading through lots of posts i decided to have a go at biasing the amp. I measured a plate voltage of 481volts and biased each side to 36.3ma. (can someone tell me if I got this right ? ). Now this amp is awesome, It sounds like a marshall should and I love it. The factory bias was 42 and 45
> Can anyone tell me if you calculate bias for 25w per tube or 20w per tube, for this amp., and how do two 25 watt tubes add up to 40 watts ?
> Did the vintage 30 speaker swap, nice but undecided yet
> tried the c19 mod but put it back,
> some nos tubes next.
> Special thanks to MartyStrat54 and Micky, you posts were very informative
> Cheers.



Hey Ratchet;
I've asked Marshall about the power tube bias and gotten 2 answers. The first one from a guy who I hadn't heard from B 4 who said 35-37Mv, and
a couple of days later from my regular contact who said 33Mv.
The 40watts is from the % of plate voltage. E.G.; 60% of 25w is 15w.
80% = 20 watts, melty glass envelope.


----------



## MarshallDog

wangchung said:


> I agree on 100pf for C19 in general. 68pf lets me run the treble and presence up around 5 tho, which is not a bad thing....
> The amp tech just noted that "C4" was a 100pf cap on the Bassman orig. design. The word Bassman prob. the key here, suggesting it might be higher for guitar. I made some little 'gator tipped jumpers last night for
> what I hope will be easy-er testing of C4 & 19.
> Your dilema between the JJ's and the Reflektor "M''s sounds exactly like
> mine with the =C='s and the GTM's. Were you able to try several bias
> values? I found what I thought were 2 usable points for each, one "soft"
> at a lower Mv, and one "hard" at higher Mv. The higher giving better note
> definition in chords it seemed. I went with the GTM's, and they are becoming more "musical" as they burn in. I'm gonna recheck the bias on
> those when I pull the chassis to listen to the new prod Svets I got from
> TTS, (Canada, good day, aye?) and the diff. caps.
> FWIW, I've been sending emails to the Marshall USA service ctr. in Miss..
> They've answered everything adequately in a timely fashion. I asked about
> the factory power tube bias value and got 35-37Mv from a fellow who wasn't my regular contact, then 33 from the guy who has been answering
> my ques.. If they are spec'ing a voltage range I guess it would work, but
> if you want the best sound your power tubes have to offer, You really need
> to work the range from 50 to 70% while playing through your spkr setup,
> IMHO.



I agree and just specifying a mA value is useless and I see this a lot lately!! You need the associated voltage to ensure you don't go over 70% power dissipation for an EL34 of course 33 mA's is fairly low and safe I guess. I have tried different bias settings on other amps and never really cared for them so now I just stick to the 70% rule. I love TTS...

If and when you get around to playing with C4 let me know your feedback...


----------



## Coronado

I was at Sam Ash the other day and I think the guy working there at the counter must have just had a 5hr energy or a red bull, cause *DAMN* was he talking my ear off. I thought I would be able to shake him when I said I was going to go check out the tubes. They have a handful of tubes for sale, nothing too great (but a couple more than say GC). They had some Groove Tubes, some Sovteks, and some JJ Teslas. In all honestly, nothing I was really wanting to buy. I have been meaning to reach back out to Marty and see about picking up a set for my DSL40 (and then perhaps the JCM800). Anyway, this guy goes on and on about these dang Teslas! Says it’s all he uses. He talked my ear off for so long, I finally bought a set so I could leave! 

I guess I need to really crank up the amp to see if these things are any good, but I cant tell if they are any better/worse than the E H's I already had in there. Anyone run the JJ Teslas in their DSL40 before? What’s funny is that I need to have my dang power tubes replaced, my preamp tubes were fine! haha! I called "Dave" at the Guitar Shop here in Richardson Texas and he said to bring it in and he would help me out with my strange hum (which I attribute to my power tubes).

You guys like JJs? Marty - I'll sent you an email in just a bit. Can I buy some power tubes from you? Thanks!


----------



## Micky

MarshallDog said:


> If and when you get around to playing with C4 let me know your feedback...



So what is it you guys are trying to accomplish with changing C4?


----------



## wangchung

MD;
I'll be doing it tom..
JJ 803s long plate....I put it in V1 and it sounded great for about 25hrs. Buzzy/crackly showed up. Kinda like a touch of what the amp sounded like out of the box..............
Hours later and many tubes rolled, tryin' to get a combination of JJ, tungsol, Gtm's
and Sovtek LP's, I just like the LP's in V1. I'll carry spares and keep an ear peeled.


----------



## Pumpkin88

Thirdeye said:


> Hi everyone I am a new member and a new owner of a DSL40c. This is my first tube amp and I like much more than the MG100HDFX I am replacing.
> 
> There is a lot of info on this thread so I apologize if this has been answered: I am thinking about replacing the speaker. Right now I am thinking of getting a V30 for the combo and using the 70/80 in a closed 1x12 cab. I'm also considering V30's in both. I play mostly harder rock/metal (Tool, Mastodon, Deftones, etc). At this point I'm not messing with tubes or any other mods, not against them just figured I'd start with the speaker.
> 
> At input on how to achieve my desired sound would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for the info!



If the amp is brand new I recommend giving the speaker some added break in time first, you may have second thoughts. As far as sound goes you'll probably want to use a lot of gain 8-10 on lead 2. Tone shift on, mids <5, treble and bass >5.


----------



## wangchung

Micky said:


> So what is it you guys are trying to accomplish with changing C4?



The basic tone for the clean channel. I looked at the schem. and it looks 
like it functions pretty much the way the 2 (C19 & 20) do for the ultra chann.. The treble and presence don't seem to do much on clean, (I think
you noted that somewhere in this thread) I played with this today and it's
more like a sensitivity of something that's already there. Can you interpret
it's function from the info available?
MD seems to have ported this from his JCM800 experiences, and has noted audible differences from changing this to a larger value, 180-220 or so. 
I hadn't heard of it till I read it in one of his posts in pages way past.


----------



## wangchung

Micky said:


> So what is it you guys are trying to accomplish with changing C4?



Looks like thr bypass cap value from the 5F6-A.


----------



## jbailes

What tubes would you suggest for the dsl40c for a blues/rock sound ala Bonamassa or Eric Johnson?


----------



## MarshallDog

Micky said:


> So what is it you guys are trying to accomplish with changing C4?



Because there is only one EQ across the channels, I wanted the Crunch Channel to sound in the same ball park with the the Ultra Channel. The Ultra Channel now has a 100pF cap in C19 because for me and the tubes I use, 0pF made Ultra Channel sound dead, no sizzle. I found, or at least I think I found, that changing C4 to 220pF gives a little more sizzle to the Crunch Channel so when you switch back and forth it doesn't sound like two totally different amps or tone styles like lets say classic rock and metal. It now sounds like Ultra Channel has a good overdrive pedal in front as compared to the Ultra Channel plus the clean Channel is a touch brighter which for me was good seeing as I ply LPS's. IMO, these changes are not drastic but a nice small improvement in tone at least for my setup...


----------



## wangchung

Wang here;
Ah! The "bright cap mod" ultra gain channel. This link is to a pub. dom. site for info. only. I'm sure it applies to C4 as well.
Bright Boost Capacitor Calculator
Set your spkr load imp. and gig volume and select a value. I know charts ain't ears,
but if you let this data sink in, then got to a video on yootoob called bright cap
mod comparison by Texas tone, it sounds like the data. Only the extreme low value on
the chart affects the way high end significantly, 100pf. And to achieve this effect you
give up midrange. A lot of midrange. The lowest you can go, it seems, and still attenuate the way high and retain some mids is 120pf. To my ear anyway.
Diminishing returns, aye? Of course the tubes and spkr play some part but I think
it's a good representation of what it purports to demonstrate. More mind munchies.


----------



## tkvoice

kingbee said:


> Roger modded my Marshall footswitch for my DSL40C with a single Red/Green LED for the channels and a Blue LED for my Reverb. Both power options with a little toggle switch to turn off the battery. The pedal is awesome and works great! Thanks Roger!




You don't have to use a battery to run LEDs on a footswitch as you can just use the power from the amp itself.
Follow this link to learn how to mod the footswitch without using a battery: 
http://www.marshallforum.com/marshall-amps/65858-dsl40c-adding-leds-footswitch.html


----------



## CarlosPrex

Hi everybody
About biasing

If I understand correctly:

GETTING THE PLATE VOLTAGE
-Amp off
-Speaker connected
-Multimeter black terminal from COM to ground on the chassis
-Multimeter red terminal from V to pin 3 of first power tube (first red arrow on pic) 
I watch and pins are numbered on sockets
-Multimeter with V~ selected
-Turn the amp to Stand By and wait 15 min 
-Turn the amp on
-Take readings from first power tube
-Change multimeter red terminal to pin 3 of second power tube (or should I first turn the amp off to do this?)
-Take reading from second power tube
-Turn the amp off

BIASING
-Use bias converter chart to get numbers based on plate voltage of each power tube readings
-Turn the amp on
-Connect multimeter black terminal from COM to center pin on CON5
-Connect multimeter red terminal from V to left pin on CON5 (green circled) and turn the right trim pot (green circled) in order to adjust green circled power tube
-Connect multimeter red terminal from V to right pin on CON5 (red circled) and turn the left trim pot (red circled) in order to adjust red circled power tube.

Something I´m missing or I´m mistaken?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Micky

Volts DC, not AC (~)


----------



## CarlosPrex

Micky said:


> Volts DC, not AC (~)



Thanks!

Anything else?


----------



## Micky

I would check the B+ voltage on all the tubes while you are in there...
But looks logical to me.


----------



## wangchung

CarlosPrex said:


> Hi everybody
> About biasing
> 
> If I understand correctly:
> 
> GETTING THE PLATE VOLTAGE
> -Amp off
> -Speaker connected
> -Multimeter black terminal from COM to ground on the chassis
> -Multimeter red terminal from V to pin 3 of first power tube (first red arrow on pic)
> I watch and pins are numbered on sockets
> -Multimeter with V~ selected
> -Turn the amp to Stand By and wait 15 min
> -Turn the amp on
> -Take readings from first power tube
> -Change multimeter red terminal to pin 3 of second power tube (or should I first turn the amp off to do this?)
> -Take reading from second power tube
> -Turn the amp off
> 
> BIASING
> -Use bias converter chart to get numbers based on plate voltage of each power tube readings
> -Turn the amp on
> -Connect multimeter black terminal from COM to center pin on CON5
> -Connect multimeter red terminal from V to left pin on CON5 (green circled) and turn the right trim pot (green circled) in order to adjust green circled power tube
> -Connect multimeter red terminal from V to right pin on CON5 (red circled) and turn the left trim pot (red circled) in order to adjust red circled power tube.
> 
> Something I´m missing or I´m mistaken?
> 
> Thanks in advance!



Yo Carlos;
I used a socket volt tool to get my volt readings but ya, you got the gist of it. 500v DC setting on your meter for pl volts, 200ma setting on your
meter for bias readings. Turn your meter on/set it before hooking it up, don't change the settings on the meter while it's hooked up to a hot board.
For pl voltage readings anyway, may blow fuze in meter. Not sure what you
mean by the V in your bias hook up description. Black from meter goes to
middle pin, Hot(or red) from meter goes to left or right pin. I don't know
if your red and green designations for the power tubes correspond to the
trim pots and pins like you have them, but your depicted relationship of the
trim pots to pins is correct. You can bias your power tubes at an arbitrary
value if you want, but moving in 2mv steps from 50-60% up to 70% or so,
while playing at each setting through your speaker(s) will allow you to
"tune" the frequency "handling" characteristics of your power tubes. In
general, lower mv settings will tend to be "softer" and more moderate
across the range. As you raise mv, thereby invoking more watts, you can
make the bass seem tighter, make the midrange crunchier and make your
high end more prominent to your taste. Of course your preamp tubes add
a voice to this too, but It is worth the trouble. EG; I just got through this
exercise with a pair of new mfr. Svetlana's. Both read 471v. 50% is 26.5mv,
70% is 37.1mv. (BTW this is exactly the same as a pair of =C='s I have)
The Svets had sounds I liked at 32mv and 35.5mv, with better bloom and
just enough compression to soften the more pronounced highs, tight bass
and a nice open growl in the middle at the higher setting. The stock tubes
had a harsh middle and got spikier with an un-musical compression at higher mv's. They sounded only ok to me at low mv's, and had runaway bias after just 30-40 hours. Have fun...watch out pokin' around in there.


----------



## CarlosPrex

_"500v DC setting on your meter for pl volts, 200ma setting on your
meter for bias readings."_
My multimeter is a FLUKE 17B
Do you mean I should use *V* (DC) for measuring plate voltage and then *mA μA* for biasing?
I thought I should select *V *(DC) for measuring Plate Voltage and mV (DC) for Biasing

_"For pl voltage readings anyway, may blow fuze in meter." _
Sorry, I didn´t get it
I guess my technical english level is not good enough

_"Not sure what you mean by the V in your bias hook up description.."_
My multimeter has 4 connectors:
-*A*
-*mA** μA*
-*COM*
-*V** Ω **ºC*

I understand black terminal must be conected to *COM* and red terminal to 
*V Ω ºC* when reading at first Plate voltage and then Biasing as well, right?


----------



## Micky

Use the common (COM) and the V on the meter.
You will not be measuring any amps or milliamps.

Your B+ voltage should be between 450-480 VDC
Your bias reading should be 30-40 mv (millivolts DC)


----------



## wangchung

CarlosPrex said:


> _"500v DC setting on your meter for pl volts, 200ma setting on your
> meter for bias readings."_
> My multimeter is a FLUKE 17B
> Do you mean I should use *V* (DC) for measuring plate voltage and then *mA μA* for biasing?
> I thought I should select *V *(DC) for measuring Plate Voltage and mV (DC) for Biasing
> 
> _"For pl voltage readings anyway, may blow fuze in meter." _
> Sorry, I didn´t get it
> I guess my technical english level is not good enough
> 
> _"Not sure what you mean by the V in your bias hook up description.."_
> My multimeter has 4 connectors:
> -*A*
> -*mA** μA*
> -*COM*
> -*V** Ω **ºC*
> 
> I understand black terminal must be conected to *COM* and red terminal to
> *V Ω ºC* when reading at first Plate voltage and then Biasing as well, right?



What Micky posted.


----------



## CarlosPrex

Thanks guys
I think I´m ready


----------



## CarlosPrex

So having black terminal on chassis and red terminal on pin 3 of the power tube BEFORE turning the amp up I can see if its safe or there´s any residual voltage on amp in order to safely change -let´s say- a cap?
And if amp is turned up I can see how the high voltage drains once the amp is power off, right?


----------



## Micky

Best to measure the cap directly to see if is drained.


----------



## wangchung

MarshallDog said:


> I agree and just specifying a mA value is useless and I see this a lot lately!! You need the associated voltage to ensure you don't go over 70% power dissipation for an EL34 of course 33 mA's is fairly low and safe I guess. I have tried different bias settings on other amps and never really cared for them so now I just stick to the 70% rule. I love TTS...
> 
> If and when you get around to playing with C4 let me know your feedback...


 
I spent a couple of hours this week on the cap thing while comparing 3 setsof 34's. New mfr. Svets, "NOS" =C='s and the new Groove tube "Mullards" which I gather are mfr. in China. The Russian tubes were surprisingly similar with the =C='s being the more "musical" of the 2. Both were somewhat bland, which is the rap on most cheaper russie tubes. The Svets moreso not surprisingly. Raising the cap values improved the sound
with those and I would have used modest increases if I were to use those
tubes. 100-120pf for C19 and prob 168-200pf for C4. I only had a 68 and
a 100 to add to C4 and 180 would seem to have been the number there.
The V1 pre tube was also a factor I used and one can only run so many
possible combinations B 4 burning out, aye? I settled on the Groove Tube
"Mullards" which read 463v, biased at 33.8-40mv, with a new mfr Tung-sol
in V1, an orig. mfr. Sovtek LP, stock Sino & an orig. mfr. GT "Mullard"
for the PI. No change to C4, and a 68pf cap in C19 which gives me a usable treble and presence range up to about 5 on both controls. The
GT "Mullard" 34's are good sounding tubes. I hope they last. Good bass
and smooth treble on the clean channel that actually seems to attenuate
a tad when I kick ultra 1 in with the above combination. I'm pushing a V30
in the 40c with a G12T in a semi-open back 1x12 cab, both are 16ohm.
It also runs my 1936 cab with the same spkrs but in mono 8ohms for a
little more bottom and volume. Killer, inspiring tone for my purposes.
I'm done foolin' around with this thing, for awhile anyway.


----------



## wangchung

Micky said:


> So what is it you guys are trying to accomplish with changing C4?


 Wrong bias in prev. post. Should be 33.8 - 34mv.


----------



## CarlosPrex

I´ve just biased my amp.
Great info on this thread but I really, really want to thank Micky, Greatwhitenorth, paradox, MartyStrat54, Ratchet and Wangchung for their help and patience on answering my questions.

My amp had a 494V Plate Voltage reading on both power tubes and 47mV on both bias pins.
I´d low them to 35mV.

Now the amp sounds quieter but still nice.


----------



## Dizzyg12

I used a wire, I think the brown one, in the pentode/triode mode switch to measure plate
Voltage as suggested early in this thread. I seemed like an easier/safer way. Mine measured at 474


----------



## Micky

494 VDC is awfully high...


----------



## wangchung

CarlosPrex said:


> I´ve just biased my amp.
> Great info on this thread but I really, really want to thank Micky, Greatwhitenorth, paradox, MartyStrat54, Ratchet and Wangchung for their help and patience on answering my questions.
> 
> My amp had a 494V Plate Voltage reading on both power tubes and 47mV on both bias pins.
> I´d low them to 35mV.
> 
> Now the amp sounds quieter but still nice.




Wow, hot stuff there. I used my amp right out of the box for about 10-15
hours, and it got louder and more aggressive. I checked the bias on the
stock tubes and they were high 40's and a low 50's. Put it down to maybe
one got thru, but the tech at the USA marshall svc ctr told me they were
set at 33mv before they left the factory. Now I'm wondering.


----------



## wangchung

Update for those who care, I've gone thru a
monumental #ucking exercise comparing diff. power tubes the last coupla
weeks, and have been using GT 'Mullards" for gig and rehearsals. My amp
left the house for rehearsal with the same GTMullards, now burned in, biased at 33.8mv.. I let these tubes burn in last night for about 5 hours,
checking the bias here and there. It was creeping some then. Tonight at
rehearsal the amp got louder and louder and harsher.....I had to keep
turning down. A coupla times the output seemed almost halved, and then
went back up. I know the GTMullards have had some burnout problems,
and I would rather it be that, but that's 2 sets of tubes with runaway
bias. The stock ones got louder and harsher too, and when I checked the bias
after 15 hours of use, one was mid 40's and the other low 50's. They leave the factory at 33ma supposedly.
I haven't checked the bias on the GTM's yet, but I'm sure they're off the chart. I'll post what I find tomorrow.


----------



## CarlosPrex

_"My amp had a 494V Plate Voltage reading on both power tubes and 47mV on both bias pins.
I´d low them to 35mV."_




Micky said:


> 494 VDC is awfully high...




Mmmh...
Today I double checked plate voltage on both power tubes
Yesterday 494V, today 499V
I kept bias on 35mV still.

I wonder how can this happen increasing from one day to another
There´s any risk having tubes running this hot or is safe enough having the 70% on biasing?
Any thoughts?


----------



## Steve Naples

That is not sounding good at all on both accounts, high plate voltage on one, and runaway bias on the other. I wonder what is going on here. I have the DSL 100H, and haven't had any issues yet.


----------



## Duffy49

Very interesting discussion here.


----------



## wangchung

More on the runaway bias's's's............
....bias was 33.8-34mv when I left for rehearsal last night, it was left powered up with the standby on during breaks. It got progressively louder and harsher sounding. I had to turn down several times. Near the end, it got real quiet then real loud a couple of times.
I powered up and let it burn for an hour this morning and checked the bias; 38+ on one tube, 36+ on the other. Not a runaway, but NFG none the less. It would continue
to creep up I'd wager.
I did a google search on DSL40c runaway bias, and one of the hits was yerotoobs
Marshall page. This is on the 900's and the 2000's, but apparently cold solder joints
or next to no solder joints on the bias pots and the power tube sockets in particular
are a problem, and the man there has seen more than one runaway red-plate.
My 40c is still on GC return time, and rather than send it to the shop I'm going to
obtain another example. Round 2.
FWIW, I have been through the JC22H model that required 3 total examples, the 3rd
having been fixed by the designer hisself. The first 2 had NO SOLDER on the leads
from the OT. They were simply stuck through the eyelets in the board. They were
screened by other wires tho and you had to move them to see it. No. 3 had that,
AND cold solder joints on the bias pots.
Next up was a DSL15H. It ran fine for about 6 mos., then did pretty much what my
40c just did, but in the space of an hour. The Ultra channel on that amp was too
crazy for my music and sent my time effects through the roof when engaged.
No loop. A reverse wired 12DW7 from yerotoobs would have wound up in the V2
hole had I kept the amp but it crashed, so I swapped it twords the 40c.
I'll give the new one a chance but if it fails that will be it for me on this design.


----------



## Studio270

wangchung said:


> More on the runaway bias's's's............
> ....bias was 33.8-34mv when I left for rehearsal last night, it was left powered up with the standby on during breaks. It got progressively louder and harsher sounding. I had to turn down several times. Near the end, it got real quiet then real loud a couple of times.
> I powered up and let it burn for an hour this morning and checked the bias; 38+ on one tube, 36+ on the other. Not a runaway, but NFG none the less. It would continue
> to creep up I'd wager.
> I did a google search on DSL40c runaway bias, and one of the hits was yerotoobs
> Marshall page. This is on the 900's and the 2000's, but apparently cold solder joints
> or next to no solder joints on the bias pots and the power tube sockets in particular
> are a problem, and the man there has seen more than one runaway red-plate.
> My 40c is still on GC return time, and rather than send it to the shop I'm going to
> obtain another example. Round 2.
> FWIW, I have been through the JC22H model that required 3 total examples, the 3rd
> having been fixed by the designer hisself. The first 2 had NO SOLDER on the leads
> from the OT. They were simply stuck through the eyelets in the board. They were
> screened by other wires tho and you had to move them to see it. No. 3 had that,
> AND cold solder joints on the bias pots.
> Next up was a DSL15H. It ran fine for about 6 mos., then did pretty much what my
> 40c just did, but in the space of an hour. The Ultra channel on that amp was too
> crazy for my music and sent my time effects through the roof when engaged.
> No loop. A reverse wired 12DW7 from yerotoobs would have wound up in the V2
> hole had I kept the amp but it crashed, so I swapped it twords the 40c.
> I'll give the new one a chance but if it fails that will be it for me on this design.




That don't sound good. I was playing a gig last Saturday and mine sounded like ass, very harsh. It sounded great the day before. 

I checked the bias and it was at about 34mv. I raised it to 37mv I won't know how it is till next weekend at rehearsal. I also ordered a WGS Veteran 30. Tomorrow I'll be using my Kemper.


----------



## wangchung

Wang doin' it again.......
I got the replacement 40c last night. I've played it for a coupla hours today, and
this one sounds a little different than #1 did. Still a bit too much high on the ultra
channel, but overall, better sounding. More of a quality sound, better FI, if you will.
Reverb is more present and sounds better, which is good. #1 was mfr in june '13.
I'm curious when this one was made, but the chassis won't be out for a while.
My next gig is in 2 wks so I'm going to play this one with only maybe a spkr chng
to a webber G1230/55, and run my V30/G12T cab at rehearsal next wk..
The stock C19 470pf cap, combines well with the stock C4 100pf cap on the
clean channel, (especially with the tone shift in, "Fender" tone stack) and running
the gain on ultra1 at 7 or above dials out much of the C19 effect. All while treble
and presence on 0 of course. There will be a substitution for C19 at some point,
but I'm gonna cook this one for awhile to make sure it's holding bias before I do
any tone-shaping tube-rolling. So with the exception of the C19 and the stock spkr
needing to be broken in, it's workable. Whoda thunk it.
All the stuff that's being mfr'd "off-shore" would be fine if it were assembled per spec.
The last time I had the board out of #1 I took a magnifying glass and looked at all
the connections. About 25% looked sketchy, and there were more than a few that
looked like they may have been "missed". No solder. Including one of the bias pots.
The Jet City stuff was only slightly better.


----------



## wangchung

Not so new #2. I just looked at the back of my replacement 40c. Back panel screws
had shiny spots, so I went ahead and popped it off. This one has JJEL34L's and 2 GT
silver series $20 Slovakian 12AX7's in V1 & V2. That explains the reasonable improvement in sound over the stock Sino stuff. JJ's sound pretty good MD! There's tamper paint on the spkr bolts on this one. It's undisturbed as are the chassis bolts. I got a sick deal on the first one anyway so sure, thanks for the tubes whoever & in
goes the Weber!


----------



## Duffy49

wangchung said:


> Wang doin' it again.......
> I got the replacement 40c last night. All the stuff that's being mfr'd "off-shore" would be fine if it were assembled per spec.
> The last time I had the board out of #1 I took a magnifying glass and looked at all
> the connections. About 25% looked sketchy, and there were more than a few that
> looked like they may have been "missed". No solder. Including one of the bias pots.
> The Jet City stuff was only slightly better.




I'm not impressed with the way your first amp went down. I don't know all the details about what the amp went thru, but the outcome didn't sound good.

There is zero excuse for cold solder joints and shoddy solder joints, not to mention joints with no solder.

I would almost be inclined to take the new amp into a warranty service center hand have them check all the solder joints, bias, etc., under the warranty coverage; after the first experience.

I almost want to have mine completely checked over and have any shoddy solder joints corrected, etc.

I hope we don't hear a lot more stories like this.


----------



## Skylarkpilot

CarlosPrex said:


> _"My amp had a 494V Plate Voltage reading on both power tubes and 47mV on both bias pins.
> I´d low them to 35mV."_
> Mmmh...
> Today I double checked plate voltage on both power tubes
> Yesterday 494V, today 499V
> I kept bias on 35mV still.
> 
> I wonder how can this happen increasing from one day to another
> There´s any risk having tubes running this hot or is safe enough having the 70% on biasing?
> Any thoughts?



First thought is to check the settings you are using on your multimeter. If you are using the wrong scale the readings can look scary. If you can, get a mate to check independently. 499v just does not sound right.


----------



## CarlosPrex

Last week I turned 50, so last night was my Gig Party

I played my DSL40C for 3 hours straight with no problems at all.

Oh Man! this amps sings!!

There was two DSL40C on stage last night. My band mate bought his on the same order that me from MusiciansFriend.

Mine has C19 clipped, speaker swap (Veteran 30) and Ruby tubes on V1 & V2 (MartyStrat recommended). The other amp was completely stock

Well, well, well
Mine sounded much better, louder, rich and full using the EXACTLY same settings side by side (amps were 2 feet away from each other) so I had to slightly turn some knobs down in order to achieve the same stage volume.

The gig was a hit, both amps sounded really good, but every time he used the red channel I could hear the C19 asking to be taken off.


----------



## Studio270

CarlosPrex said:


> Last week I turned 50, so last night was my Gig Party
> 
> I played my DSL40C for 3 hours straight with no problems at all.
> 
> Oh Man! this amps sings!!
> 
> There was two DSL40C on stage last night. My band mate bought his on the same order that me from MusiciansFriend.
> 
> Mine has C19 clipped, speaker swap (Veteran 30) and Ruby tubes on V1 & V2 (MartyStrat recommended). The other amp was completely stock
> 
> Well, well, well
> Mine sounded much better, louder, rich and full using the EXACTLY same settings side by side (amps were 2 feet away from each other) so I had to slightly turn some knobs down in order to achieve the same stage volume.
> 
> The gig was a hit, both amps sounded really good, but every time he used the red channel I could hear the C19 asking to be taken off.



Glad you're liking the amp. I just ordered a Vet 30 hope it takes care of the harshness of the amp. 

I did clip c19 and put in new JJecc803s and an ecc83.
How are you liking the speaker?


----------



## MarshallDog

Does anyone actually use the Resonance knob? I use all JJ tubes, a choke added, Celestion G12M-65 Creamback and C19 at 100 pf and C4 at 220 pf. It seems for me playing with LPS's that it sounds best completely off. Just wondering.


----------



## Studio270

@ MarshallDog, what did the C4 mod do for the clean channel? 
I like the sound of the clean now.


----------



## CarlosPrex

Studio270 said:


> Glad you're liking the amp. I just ordered a Vet 30 hope it takes care of the harshness of the amp.
> 
> I did clip c19 and put in new JJecc803s and an ecc83.
> How are you liking the speaker?



Short answer: I do

My improving tone list included:
-clipping c19 
-test a celestion Vintage30
-find the best tubes set on my budget

so I clipped c19: perfect as expected
tested a vintage30: dissapointed, not the sound I was looking for. IN fact I think the stock 70/80 sounded better.
Installed Ruby tubes on V1 & V2: quieter amp, nice tone

Then I installed the Veteran 30 and the amp came alive in terms of best mids and response. Last night was the first time I use the amp for a long period of time and volume at 6 and I really liked the sounds I had when channel switching.

I think once the speaker breaks in I´ll liked more.


----------



## CarlosPrex

MarshallDog said:


> Does anyone actually use the Resonance knob? I use all JJ tubes, a choke added, Celestion G12M-65 Creamback and C19 at 100 pf and C4 at 220 pf. It seems for me playing with LPS's that it sounds best completely off. Just wondering.



I use Les Pauls, Presence at 9:00 and Resonance at full with great results to my taste


----------



## MarshallDog

Studio270 said:


> @ MarshallDog, what did the C4 mod do for the clean channel?
> I like the sound of the clean now.



It brighten it up just a touch, nothing major IMO BUT it the Crunch channel came to life but not over the top. I play with LPS's and with single coil guitars it might be too much unless you like a brighter amp, just my opinion and guesstimate because I have no single coil guitars.


----------



## Dizzyg12

MarshallDog said:


> Does anyone actually use the Resonance knob? I use all JJ tubes, a choke added, Celestion G12M-65 Creamback and C19 at 100 pf and C4 at 220 pf. It seems for me playing with LPS's that it sounds best completely off. Just wondering.



I run presence at 10:00, resonance at 9:00. Truthfully as a starting off point with my settings, I stole the default SCOM settings from amplitube slash. surprisingly it gets pretty close, but not spot on which is why I like it....it's a decent rock tone without sounding like a copy if anyone in particular. Flame me if you want but I like it. Lol


----------



## Pasloade74

Micky said:


> Here are some gut shots of my DSL40c.
> Again, if anyone has any requests for specific photos let me know.
> Here is a shot of the bias trimpots:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a shot of the bias test connector.
> Remember, when checking/setting the bias, the left trimpot adjusts the right test point...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I finally got the bias evened out at 38.xx and all seems very stable:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will post more as time permits...



Hey Micky, are these numbers still good? I've been pulling my hair out as to why my amp sounded so lifeless lately. I've been swapping out different od pedals hoping to get better tone. Yesterday I had band rehearsal and the amp sounded like crap. Very muddy and lifeless. 

So I started rereading this thread in hopes to find a solution. I came across your bias info and decided to check mine. Come to find out it was at 28.5ish. So I bumped it up to 37ish and the amp just came to life. Finally getting that 3D sound I was looking for. I just wanted to know if you are still using the bias setting. Thanks


----------



## Micky

Yes, I use anywhere between 38-40 mv. Last I checked, I had set it at 40, and it settled in at 39.5 or so.

But I am not the only one setting the bias here... others have had good experiences. A lot depends on the power tubes you use. For me, I have settled in on the TAD EL34b STR and for preamp tubes I use NOS stuff from Marty.

With a low bias, you should have excellent clean tone with lots of headroom. Crunch might sound a bit bright, but then again, you didn't say what speaker you are currently using. I found low bias leads to less gain when you DO crank the gain at a low bias setting, it might become a bit muddy.

Anyway, I am glad you are getting it sorted out! Since I got my DSL5c, I have to admit I haven't been playing my 40c a lot. It sits downstairs where it is cold during the winter...


----------



## wangchung

My replacement/re-stock 40c is holding bias. The first thing I did after I pulled the
chassis was check the bias on the JJ's that were in there. One was 48.8 ma, which
is 90% for the voltage the tubes measured, the other was 55.8ma. Red plate zone.
Of course I thought oh no, but I set them at 32+ and left it on all day yesterday,
playing off and on. Turned it on this morning and let it warm up, bias had settled
in around 31.6-8 on both tubes. Re-set it at 33ma and have been playing, and it's
holding. Also after trying a V30 and a Weber G1230/55 in it, I've decided to give
the 70/80 a chance to break-in, so I put it back in. A 100pf C19 should affect
directly the frequency spike apparent on the freq. chart of this spkr.. I didn't give
this a listen when I had the previous example, but data suggests it.


----------



## MarshallDog

If all goes well, I am planning on trying all Mullard glass just to check out the tone, I am curious as to how they will sound as compared to all JJ's...


----------



## wangchung

MarshallDog said:


> If all goes well, I am planning on trying all Mullard glass just to check out the tone, I am curious as to how they will sound as compared to all JJ's...



I'm guessin' crispy'er MD.


----------



## Micky

I have a NOS Mullard in my V1 slot and I love it.

Clean tones that makes Fender jealous...


----------



## Pasloade74

Micky said:


> Yes, I use anywhere between 38-40 mv. Last I checked, I had set it at 40, and it settled in at 39.5 or so.
> 
> But I am not the only one setting the bias here... others have had good experiences. A lot depends on the power tubes you use. For me, I have settled in on the TAD EL34b STR and for preamp tubes I use NOS stuff from Marty.
> 
> With a low bias, you should have excellent clean tone with lots of headroom. Crunch might sound a bit bright, but then again, you didn't say what speaker you are currently using. I found low bias leads to less gain when you DO crank the gain at a low bias setting, it might become a bit muddy.
> 
> Anyway, I am glad you are getting it sorted out! Since I got my DSL5c, I have to admit I haven't been playing my 40c a lot. It sits downstairs where it is cold during the winter...



I guess I'm asking you because you have pretty much started this thread. But I like to hear what other people are see setting their bias at as well. I'm using the stock power tubes. I have a couple jj's in the v1 and v2. V3 and v4 are still stock. I swapped the 70/80 for a vintage 30 and have a 1X12 cab loaded with an Eminence Wizard. 

My main problem with this setup is finding a smooth, low gain setting for rehearsals. Sounds a bit harsh for some of the tunes we do. The best that I came up with was running my OCD at 18 volts on the green, clean channel. Perhaps I'm not setting up the eq correctly. I play a Les Paul studio with bb pros. 

Anyways, bumping up the bias definatly adds life to the green channel. I'd like to be able to use the green crunch channel and eliminate the ODs.


----------



## The Outlaw

joined just for this thread. im still only halfway through reading but had a questions.

is the loop in this amp known to be crappy? i've been using the same 2 digitech delay and chorus pedals in the loop of all my amps for about 2 years now and have been perfecty happy with them but since i've gotten this amp (about 3 months ago) i havent been happy with my sound with the loop button on. as soon as i turn the effects loop off it sounds alot better but i loose my delay and chorus. with the loop on it sounds muffled a bit and darker.

is this a problem with the amp? if so is there a fix for this besides running everything right through the front of the amp?

my whole experience with this amp has been hit and miss, it took musiciansfriend 3 tries to get me one that works. each of the first 2 had atleast 2 faulty knobs. it took me almost 2 months from the time of ordering the first one to gettting one that works. i made due with each one for a day or 2 before sending back while trying to decide if i wanted to try again or not and each time it sounded better and better. the current one just seems hit and miss, it either sounds great or sounds like garbage. no in between, and thats without changing anything just plugging in the guitar and flipping the switch so its not environment. on a good day i think of selling off some of my other amps, on one of its bad days i regret letting it kick my old blackstar ht-5 mini stack out.


----------



## Micky

Pasloade74 said:


> I guess I'm asking you because you have pretty much started this thread. But I like to hear what other people are see setting their bias at as well. I'm using the stock power tubes. I have a couple jj's in the v1 and v2. V3 and v4 are still stock. I swapped the 70/80 for a vintage 30 and have a 1X12 cab loaded with an Eminence Wizard.
> 
> My main problem with this setup is finding a smooth, low gain setting for rehearsals. Sounds a bit harsh for some of the tunes we do. The best that I came up with was running my OCD at 18 volts on the green, clean channel. Perhaps I'm not setting up the eq correctly. I play a Les Paul studio with bb pros.
> 
> Anyways, bumping up the bias definatly adds life to the green channel. I'd like to be able to use the green crunch channel and eliminate the ODs.



I almost exclusively use Classic channel Crunch mode with this amp. For this particular channel/mode, I first adjust gain to where I need it. Then I adjust volume to suit the situation. I have a tendency to add too much bass, so I have to be careful, but generally have treble & mid about halfway, and bass on 3/4. I don't use and external cab yet.

Now I am certain you will have different EQ settings, but the methodology for the crunch gain for me was the critical thing to get the sound I want. Since I don't gig much anymore, I don't play at loud volumes much and this is the only way I have found to keep things consistent. Kinda like taking the gain control and marking it for different bands/songs. 

I can then hit the Ultra channel for a lead (rare) or some single-string riffs if I need to. The settings I use I dial in similar to the Classic channel, gain to taste and then volume to suit.

Hope that helps. Probably will work different for you...


----------



## Dizzyg12

The Outlaw said:


> joined just for this thread. im still only halfway through reading but had a questions.
> 
> is the loop in this amp known to be crappy? i've been using the same 2 digitech delay and chorus pedals in the loop of all my amps for about 2 years now and have been perfecty happy with them but since i've gotten this amp (about 3 months ago) i havent been happy with my sound with the loop button on. as soon as i turn the effects loop off it sounds alot better but i loose my delay and chorus. with the loop on it sounds muffled a bit and darker.
> 
> is this a problem with the amp? if so is there a fix for this besides running everything right through the front of the amp?
> 
> my whole experience with this amp has been hit and miss, it took musiciansfriend 3 tries to get me one that works. each of the first 2 had atleast 2 faulty knobs. it took me almost 2 months from the time of ordering the first one to gettting one that works. i made due with each one for a day or 2 before sending back while trying to decide if i wanted to try again or not and each time it sounded better and better. the current one just seems hit and miss, it either sounds great or sounds like garbage. no in between, and thats without changing anything just plugging in the guitar and flipping the switch so its not environment. on a good day i think of selling off some of my other amps, on one of its bad days i regret letting it kick my old blackstar ht-5 mini stack out.



I wouldn't say it's a problem but I noticed some difference in volume/tone with the loop on. I've accommodated for it. It's not a bad sound or a
Problem at all because I usually have the loop on and some delay or chorus running anyway. Just need to adjust the eq and pedals til you find the sweet spots.


----------



## The Outlaw

Dizzyg12 said:


> I wouldn't say it's a problem but I noticed some difference in volume/tone with the loop on. I've accommodated for it. It's not a bad sound or a
> Problem at all because I usually have the loop on and some delay or chorus running anyway. Just need to adjust the eq and pedals til you find the sweet spots.



guess i'll just have to get used to it. most of the problem is probably that i never used it without the loop on until recently and once i heard it with the loop off it just never sounded that good again lol


----------



## Micky

Easy way to tell f it is actually the loop or the pedals is to just jumper the loop and compare it to the pedals. If just the jumper sounds exactly like it should I would look into some true bypass stuff.

Personally I have only started to use anything in the loop, a Boss GE-7, but it's output is adjustable and it is very easy to set the thing up. in or out, the loop on mine sounds the same (unless I kick on the pedal...) as if nothing was there.


----------



## solarburn

I'm getting disappointed as I read many on the thread are having to deal with issues out of the box. 

I have the money to pick this up for a grab and go but hassling with returns is not something I want to do to myself. I can deal with temperamental tubes amps but not right out of the box. I'm no stranger to sending amps back. Tired or frustrated with my luck would be more accurate.

I already know how to get good tones from a DSL so that doesn't even concern me. Know how to bias, roll tubes and change speakers. Gat damn flakey tube amps.

Anyways I'd like to have the 40c . Its power and size is just right. Already got the bigger iron.


----------



## Micky

For every problem you hear reported on the internet there are 20 without problems you never hear about. Many are user-generated problems, but I agree, you hear about some right out-of-the-box.

This is why you should go and play one. When you buy one, ask them to open it up so you can play it. (you don't want to take home the box anyway...) And for those who choose to buy sight-unseen - make sure the return policy suits your needs. Some places charge a restocking fee if you return only. If you exchange, some places even pay shipping. Buyer beware, be a smart shopper and do your homework.

That being said, I guess I am one of the lucky ones. I have bought tons of stuff online, never ever having to return something because it did not perform as described. If you don't know how to setup and maintain a tube amp, then you may not well suited for one. If you know how to take it to a tech when needed, you don't have to know how to maintain it, all you need to is know how to make enough money to have someone else do it for you. Simple.

If you don't know how to maintain a tube amp, and are not prepared to keep at least one set of spare tubes around, and are unwilling to part with the cash to have someone else maintain it, then frankly, you don't deserve to own a tube amp. I know this is not the case in this post example. But for many here, they cannot understand why it is so expensive and requires so much work. These are the ones who might be better off with a SS amp IMO.

And I know there are those who are literally sick and tired of having to send stuff back. I feel for you. Really. My wife is one of those who will buy something from a catalog or online, only having to return it because the color is off or it doesn't fit. BUT - she is smart enough to buy from a retailer who has pre-printed return labels that costs her nothing for return shipping. Problem is I am the one who must shuffle my schedule to pick up and drop off packages at the post office.

Problems exist with all amp models, from all manufacturers. That fact is compounded by the dealers who place returns back on the shelf for sale without testing. It happens everywhere, and despite however much complaining anyone does, it is not going to stop anytime soon. 

Do your homework, be a smart shopper, and try-before-you-buy if you can.


----------



## wangchung

Pasloade74 said:


> I guess I'm asking you because you have pretty much started this thread. But I like to hear what other people are see setting their bias at as well. I'm using the stock power tubes. I have a couple jj's in the v1 and v2. V3 and v4 are still stock. I swapped the 70/80 for a vintage 30 and have a 1X12 cab loaded with an Eminence Wizard.
> 
> My main problem with this setup is finding a smooth, low gain setting for rehearsals. Sounds a bit harsh for some of the tunes we do. The best that I came up with was running my OCD at 18 volts on the green, clean channel. Perhaps I'm not setting up the eq correctly. I play a Les Paul studio with bb pros.
> 
> Anyways, bumping up the bias definatly adds life to the green channel. I'd like to be able to use the green crunch channel and eliminate the ODs.



My experience has been that you can close/soften the mids thru biasing.
Usually lower settings, 60-65% bias, but it's not a hard rule. I did get a
somewhat smoother tone with other tubes than the stock ones in V4,
but it's subtle. I have a similar spkr setup to you, a V30 in the 40c and
a G12T in an ext. cab for more bass. I've experimented with 4 sets of
EL34's. Once I get the plate voltage, I calculated 50 &70% bias. With
the chassis out, and my spkrs connected, I started at roughly 50% and
raised the bias in 2mv increments, playing and listening at ea. point until
I liked what I heard, then went up and down a mv. to try and tweak it.
V1 is split between input buffer for both channels and ultra channel gain.
V2 is half gain "cascade" and channel 1 "crunch" mode gain.
With the tubes you list above, I'd try lowering my bias and put one of
your JJ's in V4 and maybe the stock tube with the red dot on it back
in V1. Just a suggestion..........


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

I did have to return my first DSL40C. It stopped working after about 10 hours of use. I didn't have any spare EL34's at the time, but I suspect that was the culprit. I did swap out every preamp tube with a known working spare with no results. I phoned the shop and told them that I suspected a power tube and they told me to return it and they would give me a new one. The one I have now has operated flawlessly for several months. Like Micky said, I believe that most of the issues are common to all tube amps.


----------



## solarburn

I'll just go through Sweetwater. Any issues they will take care of it. My luck is horrible.lol

I had a neighbor use to crack up at the turds I'd have to send back and how often. Hell I'm a pro about the in's and outs of doing it. Just a process or hassle depending on how many times it happens.

Some of us have extenuating circumstances like working 3rd shift, being a single parent with no time to go demoing amps that are miles away. Mail Order suits some of us hence when shit goes wrong its a big disappointment. Not the end of the world. I have amps to fall back on while the process unfolds. Takes the sting out of a turd deal.

Knowing how to bias tube amps will save in tech trips big time. I feel its a needed skill and it is tube maintenance. I know and use techs for whatever I won't do. God bless them and their skills cause I love tube amps.

Anyways I'm not seeing/hearing a whole lot of clips in this thread. Are you guys really playing the amps or are you too busy trying mods jus because some bodies ears thinks it sounds better? If I get one I'm going to light this thread up with a bone stock circuit, stock speaker, good tubes and a pedal or 2 pushing that crunch channel. I've got tubes popping out of my grommets cause I'm one of those that utilize spares for tone or burn outs.

Appreciate all the feedback I've seen/read on this thread. Been following it for some time now as I've wanted a grab and go Marshall that I can utilize tone wise. This seems to be a good choice...and the price is really decent.


----------



## wangchung

The Outlaw said:


> joined just for this thread. im still only halfway through reading but had a questions.
> 
> is the loop in this amp known to be crappy? i've been using the same 2 digitech delay and chorus pedals in the loop of all my amps for about 2 years now and have been perfecty happy with them but since i've gotten this amp (about 3 months ago) i havent been happy with my sound with the loop button on. as soon as i turn the effects loop off it sounds alot better but i loose my delay and chorus. with the loop on it sounds muffled a bit and darker.
> 
> is this a problem with the amp? if so is there a fix for this besides running everything right through the front of the amp?
> 
> my whole experience with this amp has been hit and miss, it took musiciansfriend 3 tries to get me one that works. each of the first 2 had atleast 2 faulty knobs. it took me almost 2 months from the time of ordering the first one to gettting one that works. i made due with each one for a day or 2 before sending back while trying to decide if i wanted to try again or not and each time it sounded better and better. the current one just seems hit and miss, it either sounds great or sounds like garbage. no in between, and thats without changing anything just plugging in the guitar and flipping the switch so its not environment. on a good day i think of selling off some of my other amps, on one of its bad days i regret letting it kick my old blackstar ht-5 mini stack out.



I feel your pain Outlaw. I'm on my 2nd 40c, and it was a return. It had
JJEL34L's and 2 GT silver 12ax7's in it when I cracked it open. It's holding
bias tho, unlike #1, and the tube thing is all that was done to it so I'm
keeping this one. I had your experience with the JCA22H when they first
came out. 3 of 'em, and they had me mail #3 to Mr. Soldano hissef for
examination and repair. They paid for everything and It took only 5 days.
But the reason I bought it was the loop as much as the 2 channel thing.
I tried to run a Mr.Echo, a HOF thru it first.....every time I kicked in channel 2 for a lead, it boosted the effects too making it unusable. 
thought it might be the pedals, so I obtained a Holy Grail and a Lovepedal
Gen 5 delay. Same thing. I traded for a DSL15H. It was almost as bad w/o
the loop. Traded it for the 40c, of which I am on #2 example. I am running
the grail reverb and the LP Gen5 delay in the loop w/o any problems. There
does seem to be a slight reduction in "Fi" when the loop is engaged with
nothing in it. But I'm so glad it's working with stuff in it I ignore it. I figure
just having the features, working, at this price point is good. "Solid state"
or "digital" whatever. It's way more bucks for more tubes and springs.


----------



## saxon68

Solar, my clip is all stock, and I recommend zzounds as they have a great return policy, prepay returns, and do whatever is needed to satisfy the customer and you can break it into 8 payments no interest and no credit check, they just hit your debit card and you can have them move payments up to 14 days over the 8 months if needed.


----------



## MarshallDog

Sweetwater is excellent and you can get a better than advertised price from them. Nick Church is my Sales Guy, he is wonderful and low pressure, never tries to up sell you. If anything is wrong with the amp, they pay to have it shipped back. Just another choice.


----------



## MarshallDog

MarshallDog said:


> If all goes well, I am planning on trying all Mullard glass just to check out the tone, I am curious as to how they will sound as compared to all JJ's...



UPDATE: Every time I am about to change out the glass in my amp to all Mullard's, I sit down to play it first so I can get a good grip on the tone/sound before the switch and I end up saying this amp sounds great with all JJ's so why do I want to open her up again and go through the bias steps??? Not sure what I want to do right now other than PLAY...


----------



## Micky

Solar I think you are correct, use a reputable dealer and insure your rights are protected. I would never say that all amps are gonna be perfect when new, but I will bet that by using a reputable dealer the chances are much higher.

I was kinda hoping somebody would fill this thread with sound clips, I know personally I can't do that so I try to make up for it with photos and other tech stuff. It would be great to have a bone stock clip as a control point that can be referenced when people start to mod their amps. Good luck!


----------



## Pasloade74

wangchung said:


> My experience has been that you can close/soften the mids thru biasing.
> Usually lower settings, 60-65% bias, but it's not a hard rule. I did get a
> somewhat smoother tone with other tubes than the stock ones in V4,
> but it's subtle. I have a similar spkr setup to you, a V30 in the 40c and
> a G12T in an ext. cab for more bass. I've experimented with 4 sets of
> EL34's. Once I get the plate voltage, I calculated 50 &70% bias. With
> the chassis out, and my spkrs connected, I started at roughly 50% and
> raised the bias in 2mv increments, playing and listening at ea. point until
> I liked what I heard, then went up and down a mv. to try and tweak it.
> V1 is split between input buffer for both channels and ultra channel gain.
> V2 is half gain "cascade" and channel 1 "crunch" mode gain.
> With the tubes you list above, I'd try lowering my bias and put one of
> your JJ's in V4 and maybe the stock tube with the red dot on it back
> in V1. Just a suggestion..........



Thanks for the tip Wang, I left the bias alone but I took your advice on the tube swap. I've only been able to play at low volume for now but I can't wait to crank it up.

My only question is what do the red dots on one of the stock tubes indicate? I've never noticed that before. Thanks.


----------



## solarburn

MarshallDog said:


> Sweetwater is excellent and you can get a better than advertised price from them. Nick Church is my Sales Guy, he is wonderful and low pressure, never tries to up sell you. If anything is wrong with the amp, they pay to have it shipped back. Just another choice.



Yeah MD that is who I've settled on for some time now. The CS is the best I've had and I have needed it. Took care of everything for me. Made sure I was happy. Total confidence in them.


----------



## solarburn

Micky said:


> Solar I think you are correct, use a reputable dealer and insure your rights are protected. I would never say that all amps are gonna be perfect when new, but I will bet that by using a reputable dealer the chances are much higher.
> 
> I was kinda hoping somebody would fill this thread with sound clips, I know personally I can't do that so I try to make up for it with photos and other tech stuff. It would be great to have a bone stock clip as a control point that can be referenced when people start to mod their amps. Good luck!



Your contribution to the thread is fantastic. Very valuable. I hope to get one very soon. I have the money but I have to make sure I'm committed to the amp...

My contribution will be clips. Plus I will talk about V1 & V2 tube choices as well as my fav power tubes. Other than that I'll play it for you guys see what kind of sounds we get. I will force myself to let the 70/80 Celestion break in. My gut tells me I'll want the Creamback in it. I love GB speakers. I'm not a metaler.lol


----------



## solarburn

Ok boyz I just ordered 1 from Sweetwater. Hope the gremlins missed this shipment haha!


----------



## solarburn

Here's a bit of reading on V1...

Tone Report


----------



## wangchung

Pasloade74 said:


> Thanks for the tip Wang, I left the bias alone but I took your advice on the tube swap. I've only been able to play at low volume for now but I can't wait to crank it up.
> 
> My only question is what do the red dots on one of the stock tubes indicate? I've never noticed that before. Thanks.



Hey 74;
Red dot....I'm guessin' screening for microphonics primarily, but high output
and balance between sides is desirable for V1 too. A "quality" tube.


----------



## Micky

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Here's a bit of reading on V1...
> 
> Tone Report



This also has a review of the Princeton Reverb reissue. Vin might like that...


----------



## Skylarkpilot

Regarding tubes....I copied Micky on the power tubes and stuck in TAD EL34bSTR power tubes initially biased to 40 but then reduced to 38 for a little more longevity (hopefully).
Then I stuck a TAD 7025s (12AX7) Mullard style premium quality in V1 and Electro Harmonix 12AX7EH (selected for V1 quality) everywhere else. Took a bit of a reset on the EQ but the reverb is more noticeable and I'm even loving the red channels now. Played the Ace of Spades (Motörhead version) yesterday and was having a ball. FWIW I am now Mr Happy with this amp. The only problem is, I think I'm going deaf as the temptation is just to turn it up and then up some more !


----------



## Pasloade74

Ok, perhaps I'm spending too much time listening and trying to dial this amp in rather than just playing. But whenever I'm playing at home at a low volume either on the crunch channel or on the clean using an overdrive pedal I hear an unusual clipping sound while strumming. It almost seems like a blown speaker but I know the speaker is fine. I even hear the clipping when I plug straight in to the extension cab.The clipping seems a bit louder then the actual pedal or preamp tubes. Almost like its coming from somewhere on the amp. Its weird. 

Like I said I've used 2 different speakers, I've swapped preamp tubes, swapped guitars and even tightened up all the screws around the perimeter of the baffle. I only hear it at low volumes and it goes away when playing totally clean. 

Does anyone have any idea where this sound might be coming from. Thanks


----------



## Pumpkin88

I haven't had any real problems other than the preamp tubes making some noise before they heat up, very subtle mind you but those little noises are things I have an ear for. I would imagine some of these noises are common with a combo amplifier given the added vibrations. Having said that I love the amp and wouldn't trade it for anything else. It suits my needs quite well. Even at stock configuration I havn't changed anything internally, just run pedals into it to get those extra tones I'm looking for.


----------



## Pumpkin88

Pasloade74 said:


> Ok, perhaps I'm spending too much time listening and trying to dial this amp in rather than just playing. But whenever I'm playing at home at a low volume either on the crunch channel or on the clean using an overdrive pedal I hear an unusual clipping sound while strumming. It almost seems like a blown speaker but I know the speaker is fine. I even hear the clipping when I plug straight in to the extension cab.The clipping seems a bit louder then the actual pedal or preamp tubes. Almost like its coming from somewhere on the amp. Its weird.
> 
> Like I said I've used 2 different speakers, I've swapped preamp tubes, swapped guitars and even tightened up all the screws around the perimeter of the baffle. I only hear it at low volumes and it goes away when playing totally clean.
> 
> Does anyone have any idea where this sound might be coming from. Thanks



Honestly no not at all. I get some very slight tube vibrations before warm up but after that the amp sounds very ambient and full. With that said check the back panel make sure its tight and nothing is lose, hold your hand against it to see if the sound goes away. It could just be somthing loose thats vibrating not uncommon with combo amps.


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

I picked up some TungSol preamp tubes to see how they sound. I'll try different combinations and if I don't like them at least I've got some spares. I'll report back after I try them out.


----------



## Micky

Pasolade - I will venture to guess it is coming from V4 or the power tubes.

Seeing how you rolled the preamp tubes and it didn't really help, why not try your spare set of power tubes and insure the bias is set properly.

Generally any of these types of problems are tube related...


----------



## Pasloade74

Micky said:


> Pasolade - I will venture to guess it is coming from V4 or the power tubes.
> 
> Seeing how you rolled the preamp tubes and it didn't really help, why not try your spare set of power tubes and insure the bias is set properly.
> 
> Generally any of these types of problems are tube related...



Thanks Micky, I'm guessing your probably right. That's the only thing I haven't tried. And no, I don't have a spare set yet. Time to order.


----------



## solarburn

I ordered one of these Marvel Drive pedals to run on the crunch channel. I might out Marshall my fav Marshall's running this through the DSL...

Ramble FX | Twin Bender | Marvel Drive

[ame=http://www.YouTube.com/watch?v=jdXE--QHMG0]Ramble FX : Marvel Drive - demo - SG and S-Style - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## _hightone

So i don't know if you read my last post about my distortion lost on my dsl40c but here's a demo if you have a dsl40c could you please listen it's only a minute and tell me if it sounds weird compared to your dsl40c or if all this time it's just been me. The gain is on the ultra gain channel lead one and all the EQ is around 6 and 7 on the demo the gain knob goes from 2 then 5 and then 8. Please i appreciate the help and feedback

Dsl40c Problem? by hightone420 on SoundCloud - Hear the world


----------



## lordquilton

hightone, what guitar are you using? It does sound weird to me, are you using the neck pickup?


----------



## wangchung

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I ordered one of these Marvel Drive pedals to run on the crunch channel. I might out Marshall my fav Marshall's running this through the DSL...
> 
> Ramble FX | Twin Bender | Marvel Drive
> 
> Ramble FX : Marvel Drive - demo - SG and S-Style - YouTube



That's what my 40c ultra1 sounds like SB.


----------



## Pasloade74

_hightone said:


> So i don't know if you read my last post about my distortion lost on my dsl40c but here's a demo if you have a dsl40c could you please listen it's only a minute and tell me if it sounds weird compared to your dsl40c or if all this time it's just been me. The gain is on the ultra gain channel lead one and all the EQ is around 6 and 7 on the demo the gain knob goes from 2 then 5 and then 8. Please i appreciate the help and feedback
> 
> Dsl40c Problem? by hightone420 on SoundCloud - Hear the world



That sounds very strange for the ultra channel. Perhaps you have a bad preamp tube. Did you try swapping them out? Maybe try a different cord too. I'm sure someone with more knowledge will chime in soon.


----------



## wangchung

Pasloade74 said:


> Ok, perhaps I'm spending too much time listening and trying to dial this amp in rather than just playing. But whenever I'm playing at home at a low volume either on the crunch channel or on the clean using an overdrive pedal I hear an unusual clipping sound while strumming. It almost seems like a blown speaker but I know the speaker is fine. I even hear the clipping when I plug straight in to the extension cab.The clipping seems a bit louder then the actual pedal or preamp tubes. Almost like its coming from somewhere on the amp. Its weird.
> 
> Like I said I've used 2 different speakers, I've swapped preamp tubes, swapped guitars and even tightened up all the screws around the perimeter of the baffle. I only hear it at low volumes and it goes away when playing totally clean.
> 
> Does anyone have any idea where this sound might be coming from. Thanks



Hey P74;
Both the examples I've had were fizzy OOB. Is that what you're hearing,
a kind of trashy fizz when any kind of "gain" is applied? I've had to isolate
that in my examples by doing what you did, finally playing the clean channel with no crunch, and the gain knob below 6-7. That eliminated
the 70/80 as a source, but I found that the frequency response of that spkr picked it up easily and amplified it really by a little, sympathetic spike
in the high end frequency response of that spkr. Most if not all of
the other Available Celestion guitar spkrs don't have it in their charts.
I spent a long time isolating that fizz, and all the tubes could contribute to it in some degree. Clipping C19 is a major fizz relief. I have been running
a V30 and a clipped C19 with all replacement tubes exept V3 without
the trashy high fizz. I'm not done tweaking C19 yet tho.....
Good luck


----------



## CarlosPrex

.



.


----------



## solarburn

wangchung said:


> That's what my 40c ultra1 sounds like SB.



Excellent tuning of your DSL then and...great taste in tone.

The tactics I learned from running my DSL50 to get more vintage tone won't go to waste but also I'm finding new tools since then to get me there as well. 

I really love the wattage size and grab and go of this amp. Set up right it really should be able to deliver a solid bit of vintage and heavier more modern tones...although the modern heavy saturated stuff is not my play ground. Blues, classic and hard rock is hehe.

Let's keep our fingers crossed I get one that works like it should. First thing I will check is the bias. I'll let you guys know where it was set and where I put it. Also look forward to bouncing things off others here while dialing it in like you all have been doing.

Looks like it will arrive Tuesday.


----------



## CarlosPrex

CarlosPrex said:


> _"My amp had a 494V Plate Voltage reading on both power tubes and 47mV on both bias pins.
> I´d low them to 35mV."_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mmmh...
> Today I double checked plate voltage on both power tubes
> Yesterday 494V, today 499V
> I kept bias on 35mV still.
> 
> I wonder how can this happen increasing from one day to another
> There´s any risk having tubes running this hot or is safe enough having the 70% on biasing?
> Any thoughts?



Well, Today I read the plate voltage again and still 499v on both tubes.

What does it exactly mean? It´s because the stock power tubes?
Changing the power tubes may I have a lower reading voltage or it´s something wrong on my amp?


----------



## Pasloade74

wangchung said:


> Hey P74;
> Both the examples I've had were fizzy OOB. Is that what you're hearing,
> a kind of trashy fizz when any kind of "gain" is applied? I've had to isolate
> that in my examples by doing what you did, finally playing the clean channel with no crunch, and the gain knob below 6-7. That eliminated
> the 70/80 as a source, but I found that the frequency response of that spkr picked it up easily and amplified it really by a little, sympathetic spike
> in the high end frequency response of that spkr. Most if not all of
> the other Available Celestion guitar spkrs don't have it in their charts.
> I spent a long time isolating that fizz, and all the tubes could contribute to it in some degree. Clipping C19 is a major fizz relief. I have been running
> a V30 and a clipped C19 with all replacement tubes exept V3 without
> the trashy high fizz. I'm not done tweaking C19 yet tho.....
> Good luck



You could say it sounds fizzy. Its loud enough to be irritating.

I was under the impression the C19 mod only helped the ultra channel. I'm trying to hold off on that mod until I try a new set of power tubes. I don't mind the ultra channel being a bit brighter than the classic channel. At least for now. Last time I was at rehearsal I really wasn't too impressed on how the amp sounded either. It just seemed kind of blah. I'm hoping a new set of JJ El34's will help.


----------



## MarshallDog

Pasloade74 said:


> You could say it sounds fizzy. Its loud enough to be irritating.
> 
> I was under the impression the C19 mod only helped the ultra channel. I'm trying to hold off on that mod until I try a new set of power tubes. I don't mind the ultra channel being a bit brighter than the classic channel. At least for now. Last time I was at rehearsal I really wasn't too impressed on how the amp sounded either. It just seemed kind of blah. I'm hoping a new set of JJ El34's will help.



IMO, I think you will find the JJ's E34L's will help thicken and and some sweet character to the tone BUT you may need to increase C4 to some thing above 100 pF. I have been using all JJ power and pre-amp glass and love the way it sounds except it doesn't sound bright enough and believe me, I don't like ear piercing in your face bright amps. So I have increased these values (still experimenting) and it has more bite. My next experiment is to try a 390 pf in C4 and a 220 pf in C19.


----------



## wangchung

Pasloade74 said:


> You could say it sounds fizzy. Its loud enough to be irritating.
> 
> I was under the impression the C19 mod only helped the ultra channel. I'm trying to hold off on that mod until I try a new set of power tubes. I don't mind the ultra channel being a bit brighter than the classic channel. At least for now. Last time I was at rehearsal I really wasn't too impressed on how the amp sounded either. It just seemed kind of blah. I'm hoping a new set of JJ El34's will help.



The C19 mod affects ultra1 primarily, but I noticed a reduction in the fizz
on the crunch channel as well, tho not as pronounced. Yea, the JJ's will help.
On the Blah; One of my LP's has a Dimarzio Super3 in the bridge and a Fred
in the neck. It weighs a ton so I don't play it much. I tried it today as those pups were in my #1 and I had swapped them for a tonezone and a
bluesbucker. I'm swapping back. The super3 and the fred are mid-rangey
pups and perked the amp right up. The tonezone and the bluesbucker are darker and they sounded a bit boomy. The amp is very sensitive to input.


----------



## wangchung

MarshallDog said:


> IMO, I think you will find the JJ's E34L's will help thicken and and some sweet character to the tone BUT you may need to increase C4 to some thing above 100 pF. I have been using all JJ power and pre-amp glass and love the way it sounds except it doesn't sound bright enough and believe me, I don't like ear piercing in your face bright amps. So I have increased these values (still experimenting) and it has more bite. My next experiment is to try a 390 pf in C4 and a 220 pf in C19.


 
Hey MD;
I played all of my axes thru this thing over the weekend and discovered
it is very sensitive to pickup tonal characteristics. I've been using a LP
with a tonezone and a bluesbucker and it was kind of boomy (no surprise
there really). My Hamer's got a Duncan JB and a PAF in it and it sounds
great. My LP with a Dimarzio super3 and a Fred sounded great too.
It likes to be fed midrange methinks. I just rolled off the tone for the
desired honk/crunch and off I goes...A balanced, "full range" pup would
prob be best for all-round. It doesn't boost or attenuate what it doesn't
have to work with well. Create frequencies that aren't there like some
amps can do to some extent (I think).


----------



## CarlosPrex

Well
This thread is getting to his first anniversary

Thanks to Micky for starting the thread and all the great people aboard for sharing such helpful info.


----------



## wangchung

MarshallDog said:


> IMO, I think you will find the JJ's E34L's will help thicken and and some sweet character to the tone BUT you may need to increase C4 to some thing above 100 pF. I have been using all JJ power and pre-amp glass and love the way it sounds except it doesn't sound bright enough and believe me, I don't like ear piercing in your face bright amps. So I have increased these values (still experimenting) and it has more bite. My next experiment is to try a 390 pf in C4 and a 220 pf in C19.



Hey MD;
Try the 220 in C19. I just grafted a 150 on to the 68 that's in there and
I'm leavin' it in for awhile I think. I also put the JJ34l's back in for grins.
Nice cake, aye?


----------



## MarshallDog

wangchung said:


> Hey MD;
> Try the 220 in C19. I just grafted a 150 on to the 68 that's in there and
> I'm leavin' it in for awhile I think. I also put the JJ34l's back in for grins.
> Nice cake, aye?



Yes, I really seem to like the 220pF in C19, looks like you may like it also? If you can, try a 390pF in C4 and let me know what you think. I really like it and it sounds almost just like my 1980 JMP which says a lot IMO...


----------



## wangchung

MarshallDog said:


> Yes, I really seem to like the 220pF in C19, looks like you may like it also? If you can, try a 390pF in C4 and let me know what you think. I really like it and it sounds almost just like my 1980 JMP which says a lot IMO...



Have you tried 250 for C4? I can do maybe 350. Do you use the crunch on the clean channel? I'm trying to just use the clean.
Yes I like the 220 in C19. This amp also likes the JAN Phillips 12ax7A i've
had for years but hasn't sounded any better than new prod. tubes in anything.


----------



## solarburn

Well she arrived today...in working order.

Gat damn I forgot how bright this amp is at lower volumes hehe. The speaker will mellow after a couple months of playing plus I have quite a few tubes to try when I want. I know in my dsl50 a Telefunken in V1 and a Raytheon black plate in V2 really changed things for the better...short of any circuit mods.

I forgot how much unscrewing happens with a combo when biasing. I haven't checked it yet but will over the next couple days. Right now I have vertigo kicking my ass and it's too hard to tilt my head in certain positions and not have the world spin away on me. Nasty shit.

Right now I have these power tubes:

EH 6CA7's
JJ 34L's
KT 77's
Tungsol 34B's
Ruby BSTR's
RFT 34's

So I have some room for tinkering. My first tinker will be the bias though.

I haven't looked yet but what does this come with stock preamp and power tube wise or does it vary? Are they JJ's or something else?


----------



## Micky

Marty sez the preamp tubes are JJ's special made for the Vietnamese market.


----------



## solarburn

Micky said:


> Marty sez the preamp tubes are JJ's special made for the Vietnamese market.



Oh ok. I'll have a look at them when I open it up. The amp is pretty bright. I can see where the usual JJ 83S may be used in V1 or V2 to help. I liked the Telefunken in V1 because it maintained some nice highs and then the Raytheon Black Plate thickened it up but gave it articulation across the board. Its a trick to get the best out of each voicing without compromising somewhere.

I also really liked an RFT in V1. A better JJ 83S if you will especially in the mid section. Nice meaty flavor and it is noticeable in all my amps. Course I'm tuning to my ears so I know all this is subjective.


----------



## MarshallDog

wangchung said:


> Have you tried 250 for C4? I can do maybe 350. Do you use the crunch on the clean channel? I'm trying to just use the clean.
> Yes I like the 220 in C19. This amp also likes the JAN Phillips 12ax7A i've
> had for years but hasn't sounded any better than new prod. tubes in anything.



I didn't try 250. I did try several lower values and tried a 220 but then went right for 390. So far I like it. I keep the tone knob on my LPSs set at about 8 when playing low and about 7 when playing louder and it allows for the neck pup to sound really good, not too dark and muddy. I do use Crunch mode but when I switch to clean the tone is still right there as long as I turn up the volume.


----------



## solarburn

Here it is fully stock and even unbiased by me yet. Haven't found the sweet spot for the phone mic yet so it is what it is. I'm running the Lead 2 only at low gain with some delay. I really haven't dialed shit in yet. Gonna bias it over the weekend...see where Marshall put it and then stick it where I like it...usually at 65%. Using my EC1000 with Dimarzio SD/Paf Joe. Weird noise is the ceiling fan. The amp is dead quiet due to my NS-2 in loop. Nada.

[ame=http://www.YouTube.com/watch?v=G1LpXmlarw0]DSL 40c straight in to lead 2 gain low. - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## MarshallDog

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Here it is fully stock and even unbiased by me yet. Haven't found the sweet spot for the phone mic yet so it is what it is. I'm running the Lead 2 only at low gain with some delay. Later I add my 10 band EQ from loop that really all it added was some low mids...very slight. I really haven't dialed shit in yet. Gonna bias it over the weekend...see where Marshall put it and then stick it where I like it...usually at 65%. Using my EC1000 with Dimarzio SD/Paf Joe. Weird noise is the ceiling fan. The amp is dead quiet due to my NS-2 in loop. Nada.
> 
> DSL 40c straight in to lead 2 gain low. - YouTube



Sounds great and your playing was awesome also. Do you mind if I ask where your amp EQ settings were?


----------



## solarburn

MarshallDog said:


> Sounds great and your playing was awesome also. Do you mind if I ask where your amp EQ settings were?



Thank you MarshallDog.

No not at all. Lead 2: I didn't use my 10 band on this recording. I did on my second which I dumped. This one turned out better anyways.

Gain=2.5
Treble=4
Mids=5.5
Bass=5
Presence=2
Resonance=3
Volume=1


----------



## Duffy49

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Here it is fully stock and even unbiased by me yet. Haven't found the sweet spot for the phone mic yet so it is what it is. I'm running the Lead 2 only at low gain with some delay. I really haven't dialed shit in yet. Gonna bias it over the weekend...see where Marshall put it and then stick it where I like it...usually at 65%. Using my EC1000 with Dimarzio SD/Paf Joe. Weird noise is the ceiling fan. The amp is dead quiet due to my NS-2 in loop. Nada.




I like that.

I have a SuperDistortion in a LP of mine and like that pickup. Not sure what I'm going to put in the neck.


----------



## solarburn

Duffy49 said:


> I like that.
> 
> I have a SuperDistortion in a LP of mine and like that pickup. Not sure what I'm going to put in the neck.



I wasn't doing any channel switching...just toggling pups in the vid. I have a 36th Anni Paf for the neck to put in this guitar as soon as I get over to my guitar tech. I'm not in love with the Paf Joe that's in in it now. On this guitar I'm having issues finding a neck pup I like.

What I like about a Super Distortion is on bright amps or settings when backing off volume it warms up in tone. I may slap a 36th Anni in the bridge just to see if I like it. I know the Super D works for me so I can always go back.


----------



## wangchung

I've got an older Dimarzio Fred that sounds good in the neck hole of any paul i've had it in. I recently aquired a Gib. 57 classic neck that I put in my custom neck hole and it's staying in there. I usually back them down some to clean them up a tad and it's a great blues tone.
Been foolin' around with tubes again and with C19 at 220pf, I've got a tungsol in V1,
a Sovtek LP in V2, stock tube in V3 and a select JJ in V4. =C=34's (471 volts) biased
at 30ma, driving a V30. Killer blues tones from channel 1 and Eliminator/Afterburner
tones from ultra1. All the screws are back in and it's stayin' this way until the sound
changes.


----------



## guitarrman

Hi, im new here and would Like to know What brand of 12AX7's would be the best for high-gainy Metal and hard rock tones. The ones at some of My local Guitar shops are Electro- Harmonix, Groove Tubes, JJ and Tung-Sol. I'm on a Pretty strict budget and don't want to experiment With too many different tubes. Any help would be much appreciated.


----------



## guitarrman

Apparently i had missed some stuff. There are also Sovtek preamp tubes available. Also, What brand of EL34's are best for rock and Metal?


----------



## solarburn

I'm biasing right now and I got 36m on both tubes. Not jumping around seems fine. PV is 460V.

Now I decide whether to put the 6CA7's in or leave it stock...think Ill put a RFT in V1. Usually I'd just go Telefunken BP to start with but I didn't mind the stock sound enough to make me want to change shit. I might have to play its stock so my ears figure out what they like and don't like. 

Well guys how bout it? Let's just decide on the power tubes for now. Put the EH 6CA7's in or keep the stock power tubes in?


----------



## solarburn

Must be Friday night.lol


----------



## Micky

I've got TADs in mine, with a compliment of preamp tubes from Marty.


----------



## solarburn

Well after biasing up some older JJ KT-77's, EH6CA7's and watching them drift more than I like(both older used sets)I put the stock ones back in and watched them be rock solid stable. Probably the most stable power tubes I have ever had as well as biasing up to a quick match. 

I decided just to roll V1 with an RFT and check it later when I can play...see what the change produces. Should have that sig meat in the mids sound just like my Super Distortions have that sig mid character too.

I have to say the amp sounds pretty good stock so I'm just going to have to spend more time playing before I'll know what to dial in or out.


----------



## solarburn

Just adding the RFT in V1 darkened the amp up more than I thought it might. Caused me to increase treble and presence. Think Ill put the stock tube back in and feel the diff. Both have their merits but the RFT is warmer...maybe more than I want.


----------



## saxon68

Groove tube in V1 sounds like the amp had it's balls removed. I have an EH in V1, the rest are stock.


----------



## lordquilton

Well I installed the Creamback 65 in mine the other day, and I was messing with my son's Zoom H2N field recorder this morning. This is the result- dsl 40c + creamback 65 by lordquilton on SoundCloud - Hear the world The audio driver on the Zoom was quite temperamental going into my DAW, and it cut out quite abruptly. Sorry about that. It's crunch channel (backed off on the guitar for clean), and I kick in Ultra 2 near the end. Personally I think the Creamback is a good match for this amp, the cleans are even nicer, and I don't feel like I have to tame the Ultra channel with my guitar's tone knob any more. If I were doing modern metal I might go with a Vintage 30 or similar though.


----------



## lordquilton

Where the **** are my paragraphs?!


----------



## solarburn

saxon68 said:


> Groove tube in V1 sounds like the amp had it's balls removed. I have an EH in V1, the rest are stock.



Haha! I thought changing just V1 rendered a significant change in tone and feel. Now the RFT is nice but causes some changes on my low gain setting on the Lead 2 voicing. Verging on mud. Looser for sure. Kind of a cool sag feel to it. It definitely warmed up the Crunch voicing. It helped Lead 1 though. 

That's an issue with this design. What sounds good on one voicing doesn't translate the same on the other voicings. So I pick the voicings I use the most and get them as good as I can. Always a compromise with the DSL but I still enjoy the Marshall tones I get out of it.LOL

I put the stock one back in for now. Brought it right back to baseline...a bit bright but on recording it I liked it.


----------



## solarburn

lordquilton said:


> Well I installed the Creamback 65 in mine the other day, and I was messing with my son's Zoom H2N field recorder this morning. This is the result- dsl 40c + creamback 65 by lordquilton on SoundCloud - Hear the world The audio driver on the Zoom was quite temperamental going into my DAW, and it cut out quite abruptly. Sorry about that. It's crunch channel (backed off on the guitar for clean), and I kick in Ultra 2 near the end. Personally I think the Creamback is a good match for this amp, the cleans are even nicer, and I don't feel like I have to tame the Ultra channel with my guitar's tone knob any more. If I were doing modern metal I might go with a Vintage 30 or similar though.



I like that too. First I was considering getting the Creamback for mine too but I think I still will stick to my plan and put a G12-65 in it. Keep tuning it for what I play. I won't be doing any metal...or modern voiced metal.

Anyways I think the Creamback is a great match that will bring the blues and rock/hard rock right out of this baby. Good demo man.


----------



## lordquilton

Thanks man. So how would you describe the differences between the Creamback and the G12-65?


----------



## solarburn

lordquilton said:


> Thanks man. So how would you describe the differences between the Creamback and the G12-65?



I'm thinking the G12-65 will be a bit darker...more restrained top end and mid emphasized. I haven't looked at the EQ curve yet on both so I'm speculating. I think though that for blues/rock/hard rock these kinds of speakers do it good and a great way to dial in those tones.

I think you made an excellent choice


----------



## lordquilton

Yeah, the 70 Eighty wasn't bad, definitely grew on me when it broke in.
But moving up to the Creamback...god, it's so hard to describe. It's like making beef burgundy from a sachet ("that was satisfactory"), then making it from scratch with good ingredients and stewing it all day ("Goddamn I just wanna eat this every day!") 
Just "more", somehow.


----------



## solarburn

lordquilton said:


> Yeah, the 70 Eighty wasn't bad, definitely grew on me when it broke in.
> But moving up to the Creamback...god, it's so hard to describe. It's like making beef burgundy from a sachet ("that was satisfactory"), then making it from scratch with good ingredients and stewing it all day ("Goddamn I just wanna eat this every day!")
> Just "more", somehow.



Hahaha! That's awesome. Man when you can't leave the amp alone cause its sounds so damn good now you know you made the right mod/upgrade. Way to dial that amp in.


----------



## saxon68

Another clip with the iPhone, red channel 1, gain about 5 with reverb about halfway up just because I see people with questions about the reverb. I've got the master volume a bit low here, but it sounds real nice cranked at these settings.

DSL40C ultra 1 - YouTube


----------



## solarburn

saxon68 said:


> Another clip with the iPhone, red channel 1, gain about 5 with reverb about halfway up just because I see people with questions about the reverb. I've got the master volume a bit low here, but it sounds real nice cranked at these settings.
> 
> DSL40C ultra 1 - YouTube



Yeah man...nice! Sounded juicy when you brought guitar volume up and the backed off tone is classic Marshall. Damn fine dialing that Marshall tone up.

Yours is still stock or did you do some tube rolling?


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

saxon68 said:


> Another clip with the iPhone, red channel 1, gain about 5 with reverb about halfway up just because I see people with questions about the reverb. I've got the master volume a bit low here, but it sounds real nice cranked at these settings.
> 
> DSL40C ultra 1 - YouTube



Any mods to your DSL? Nice tone by the way.


----------



## saxon68

Mine is all stock, except for a tube that I put in V1 when I got a replacement for the one that died in V2. Originally I got a GT-12AX7-r for free from zzounds, but it was weak anywhere but V4, and then I got an EH, SOV 12AX7EH and put it in V1 and put the tube that was in V1 to V4, the GT is my spare now.

I do plan to buy some NoS from Marty, I was debating the C19 mod and speaker replacement but I decided to wait and give the stock speaker a fair shake. I've been happy with the break in so far. I'll put up another clip of ultra 1 later.

Funny thing, back in the early 90s my buddy had a JCM800 and I always felt it was weak, I had a crate stealth and loved it, his amp put me off wanting a Marshall. If I ever get a half stack again I will certainly go for one if the new DSL 100 heads.


----------



## solarburn

saxon68 said:


> Mine is all stock, except for a tube that I put in V1 when I got a replacement for the one that died in V2. Originally I got a GT-12AX7-r for free from zzounds, but it was weak anywhere but V4, and then I got an EH, SOV 12AX7EH and put it in V1 and put the tube that was in V1 to V4, the GT is my spare now.
> 
> I do plan to buy some NoS from Marty, I was debating the C19 mod and speaker replacement but I decided to wait and give the stock speaker a fair shake. I've been happy with the break in so far. I'll put up another clip of ultra 1 later.
> 
> Funny thing, back in the early 90s my buddy had a JCM800 and I always felt it was weak, I had a crate stealth and loved it, his amp put me off wanting a Marshall. If I ever get a half stack again I will certainly go for one if the new DSL 100 heads.


 
DSL on a 412 gets it on. Problem is gigging with it and using house sound systems that awesome thump gets neutered. Oh well. At least at home I can unleash my 100 watter and indulge myself in its glory.

I've been rolling V1 & V2 today and not getting much of a change for anything better. I'm using high dollar ANOS too. I will say the RFT had the biggest impact that was noticeable. I still want to try it in V2.

Speaker change will have a bigger impact. I'd do that before the circuit mod or C19. I will admit clipping C19 is NOT an expense if you do it. I'm afraid of loosing the bite I want mixed in...for a smoother tone. Besides I can get the Crunch and Lead 2 to match volume wise using a pedal to boost the crunch where I like it. I can roll off to cleans using both channels but I'm not covering a bunch of sonic ground either. Mostly rock.

I do understand the C19 mod makes the transition from the crunch to Lead 1 much better. That is a selling point too with that mod. 

Anyways I'm going to do a speaker change later but I want to see where the 70/80 goes after broken in. I need to use my ears.


----------



## solarburn

I tried my coveted Telefunken/Raytheon BP in V1 & V2. No magic happened in this DSL which tells me I'm gonna have to approach this version with a clean slate.

I tuned my 50 watter for along time as well had it modded so I gathered a lot of useful info tweaking a DSL circuit. Some of that may help with this amp as it would with any amp in general but this combo is responding differently to tube changes for sure. It's ok cause I like the core tone but I find it funny that it is ignoring my magical tube combinations haha!


----------



## Micky

I think if you play mostly clean/crunch on the Classic channel then V1 & V2 will be the big difference. I suspect that you will stick mostly with the Ultra channel, and then V2 & V3 will make the biggest difference for you.

Anyway, keep those clips coming!


----------



## solarburn

The RFT in V1 warmed everything up. I was really surprised the effect it has compared to the others but it is a darker tube so obviously that translated over. The tubes that are more even are not making much of a difference although I agree more noticeable on the green side. As long as gain is low though on Lead 2 you can make out changes. If gain is up no.

I'll get a clip of the RFT in V1 and see how the change comes over recorded. I really like the mid flavoring and soloing it has a tasty texture to it. Soloing I am happy with it but chording it seems a bit too warm. Maybe not though. See how it sounds recorded. 

One thing for sure guys ears can change or fatigue after awhile so its good to go back later and check again after a break.


----------



## Pumpkin88

What does it mean when the power tubes hiss? At first I thought it was the preamp tubes but now I've convinced its the power tubes because thats where I hear the noise. The sound doesn't affect tone but I notice it on the clean channel while ringing out lower notes. The sound is a sssssssssss sort of noise but only when I hit and hold a low note like the low E on the 7th fret. I know the amp is still under warranty I'm thinking of trying different tubes what do you guys think it is?


----------



## Micky

The hiss comes from the speaker?

Try swapping ALL tubes first... Even preamp tubes.


----------



## solarburn

Pumpkin88 said:


> What does it mean when the power tubes hiss? At first I thought it was the preamp tubes but now I've convinced its the power tubes because thats where I hear the noise. The sound doesn't affect tone but I notice it on the clean channel while ringing out lower notes. The sound is a sssssssssss sort of noise but only when I hit and hold a low note like the low E on the 7th fret. I know the amp is still under warranty I'm thinking of trying different tubes what do you guys think it is?



Can you record the sound on your phone?

Usually hissing, static, pops or increased background noise will come from a noisy preamp tube...but not always. When I have had noisy power tubes I got pops or hum but noise from a tube can be different sometimes.

This sounds like its happening when a low note is struck...maybe vibrating a tube into making noise...lower your bass on the amp EQ and play in the same spot. Lower enough to make it less able to vibrate shit. See what happens.


----------



## Pumpkin88

Ok so I took off the back and tapped on all the tubes with a pencil. When I tapped on right power tube it made the noise so I guess I need new power tubes. I was also told the warranty won't cover the tubes. So I guess my next question is where can I find replacements that have the same tone as the stock tubes?


----------



## MarshallDog

The Tube Store at thetubestore.com. Great service, price, delivery and expertise. I believe the original tubes are Shuguang's or at least they were in mine. Here is the link for them: www.thetubestore.com - Shuguang EL34-B Audio Tubes.


----------



## Pumpkin88

Ok thanks. So I assume they are just plug and play, no re-bias needed?


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

Power tubes need re-biasing. Preamp tubes do not. You're also going to need a matched set. I haven't decided on replacements for the stock power tubes just yet so let us know what you pick.


----------



## Pumpkin88

I've never done this before and I don't have an amp tech around me. However I do have a milivolt reader. So what are the steps I need to know for this amp? I tried watching a clip on youtube but its for a completely different amp so it didn't help much.


----------



## Micky

See the very first page of this thread...


----------



## Pumpkin88

Yes, I saw the pictures. I was just wondering what process you take to get from point a to point c. How do I safely remove the head from the cabinet and gain access to the board, what do I unscrew?


----------



## Pumpkin88

Also when I'm taking the readings do I leave it in standby mod?


----------



## solarburn

This is where I learned to bias my amps. Be safe and read the text. Biasing is simple if done right and safely.

I use Amp-heads dual bias probe that checks plate voltage too. 

I bias mine around 36mv to 38mv. Not 40mv to 45mv.

There is not much separation in mv's from plate voltages of 450pv to 470pv that is why 36mv to 38mv is a good zone to be in. You can easily look at a bias table with Plate Voltages included and see the bias numbers don't move much.

Eurotubes - Marshall DSL-TSL-JVM "How to" Bias Video


----------



## solarburn

Pumpkin88 said:


> Also when I'm taking the readings do I leave it in standby mod?



Watch the vid.


----------



## wangchung

I had this thing sounding great last week...is it me or does the sound change
day to day? Pedals all sounded like shit through it this wknd. Spikey highs on the
lead channel came back....what a POS. Weeks of work was lipstick on a pig.
I pulled it first break sat nite and plugged my Crate club 20 hd in. I'm done with it.
Good luck with it guys.


----------



## solarburn

Bummer man. I hate when an amp gets so inconsistent you spend more time tweaking or fixing it then playing...plus you constantly wait for the shoe to drop cause you feel its gonna lose itself again.


----------



## solarburn

I've got a pair of JJ 34L's coming for this thing. I already have a set but they are in my JMP and I want them in it. Besides I already like these power tubes.

I really wanted to put some EH 6CA7's in it but I've been having some reliability issues with them. Had one blow out of a set and on another matched pair I had one drift out of bias range. One of my fav power tubes too. Sound and feel great in 2 different Marshall's of mine. dammit!


----------



## JEB

I'm not sure if this is the best place for this question or if it should be in the Cabinet & Speaker forum, but here goes.

I have a Celestion Gold in my DSL40C. I love the way it sounds and haven't had any trouble with it or the amp at all.

However, I was reading that the power rating of an amp is typically evaluated using a clean signal and that a very distorted signal will actually send up to twice the effective power to a speaker.

The Celestion Gold is rated for 50W. Am I at risk of blowing this speaker on the OD2 channel if I have the amp cranked?

Mostly I've had this amp at the 20W setting, but I'm a little worried now of switching over to 40W with this speaker. Do I really have a problem?


----------



## Pumpkin88

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I've got a pair of JJ 34L's coming for this thing. I already have a set but they are in my JMP and I want them in it. Besides I already like these power tubes.
> 
> I really wanted to put some EH 6CA7's in it but I've been having some reliability issues with them. Had one blow out of a set and on another matched pair I had one drift out of bias range. One of my fav power tubes too. Sound and feel great in 2 different Marshall's of mine. dammit!



I was debating getting these or the regular JJ EL-34's. I play a lot of alternative rock, Foo Fighters, Smashing Pumpkins, AIC, Weezer, Creed, ect. (hardly any classic rock). Would these be better suited for me than your basic El34's? Mind you both my guitars have humbuckers or humbucker like pick ups so they are fairly hot by themselves.


----------



## Pumpkin88

JEB said:


> I'm not sure if this is the best place for this question or if it should be in the Cabinet & Speaker forum, but here goes.
> 
> I have a Celestion Gold in my DSL40C. I love the way it sounds and haven't had any trouble with it or the amp at all.
> 
> However, I was reading that the power rating of an amp is typically evaluated using a clean signal and that a very distorted signal will actually send up to twice the effective power to a speaker.
> 
> The Celestion Gold is rated for 50W. Am I at risk of blowing this speaker on the OD2 channel if I have the amp cranked?
> 
> Mostly I've had this amp at the 20W setting, but I'm a little worried now of switching over to 40W with this speaker. Do I really have a problem?



I'm no expert but if it were me I would go with the same rating if not more than the stock speaker just for reliability alone.


----------



## Micky

JEB said:


> I'm not sure if this is the best place for this question or if it should be in the Cabinet & Speaker forum, but here goes.
> 
> I have a Celestion Gold in my DSL40C. I love the way it sounds and haven't had any trouble with it or the amp at all.
> 
> However, I was reading that the power rating of an amp is typically evaluated using a clean signal and that a very distorted signal will actually send up to twice the effective power to a speaker.
> 
> The Celestion Gold is rated for 50W. Am I at risk of blowing this speaker on the OD2 channel if I have the amp cranked?
> 
> Mostly I've had this amp at the 20W setting, but I'm a little worried now of switching over to 40W with this speaker. Do I really have a problem?


You will be fine. 

40 watts clean is 40 watts.
40 watts with distortion is still 40 watts, just distorted.


----------



## solarburn

Pumpkin88 said:


> I was debating getting these or the regular JJ EL-34's. I play a lot of alternative rock, Foo Fighters, Smashing Pumpkins, AIC, Weezer, Creed, ect. (hardly any classic rock). Would these be better suited for me than your basic El34's? Mind you both my guitars have humbuckers or humbucker like pick ups so they are fairly hot by themselves.




Go by the EQ curve of these tubes which is a tight bottom, warm present mids and restrained top end. I like these tubes over the regular JJ 34's...just a meatier 34 if you will.

I think you would benefit from them playing what you do. I use humbuckers too and they are the Super Distortions. I think in a bright amp the 34L's can help tame some harsh or trebly frequencies.

Don't forget about using your guitar's tone knobs either. I've been getting some good tones using it backed off. Experiment with it too.


----------



## solarburn

By the way I got my 34L's today so I'll be putting them in this weekend.


----------



## wangchung

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Bummer man. I hate when an amp gets so inconsistent you spend more time tweaking or fixing it then playing...plus you constantly wait for the shoe to drop cause you feel its gonna lose itself again.



I was playing it constantly. I have nothing else I'd rather do.
It seems to me that there could be mods made to the circut that go beyond the limited tooling around with C19 & C4, toobs and cones.
There seems to be a lot of drifting of component values probably due to the soldering on the boards. No doubt component values could be tweaked
to eliminate the FIZZ with out having to give up mid-range crunch.
Got out the 2000 DSL 50 for rehearsal tonight, Crunch crunch, no fizz, oh
what a relief it is. I played through one of those Peavey 20watt "ValveKing"
heads at GC when I returned the 40c. It was fizzy too. Like diode clipping
almost. Played a Mesa 5/25 too, and a Hughes and Kettner(?) 18. Both
could be made to fizz, but it dialed out. So to fizz or not fizz, that is the
question. Not. I mean is it me or is it Marshall?
But I now have my axes playing w/no fingerboard noise, and a fresh assortment of tubes to keep the DSL50 running for years.


----------



## solarburn

I think for me if I was going to do any mods on mine it would get a better OT and choke for high volume playing so it doesn't mud up.

I don't mind a bit of fizz or hair on my saturation as long as the amp tone is musical. A touch too much is no good though. I admit I'm still having fun playing it. So far just working the Lead 2 voicing. Been finding all kinds of mid gain stuff there. Roll off to cleans too. Dirty cleans. I don't like clean cleans. Need a little break up or hair.

I still don't like how problematic these have been. I'm not going to throw a bunch of money at it to get jus a lil more. Some new iron can make it more durable. The rest will be getting it to sound the way I want using amp, guitar and speaker. might be shit to someone else's ear hehe. If it fails it's got a warranty. I already have killer amps that can take me away. The size and power range of this amp is really attractive to me as far as grab and goes. Execution can be a whole other story...


----------



## MarshallDog

I am thinking about putting a Classic Tone OT in it. I was told they will make the amp sound great, much more vintage and they are cheap and easy to install. Maybe next month I will order one??? Any thoughts about this mod or about Classic Tone OT's??


----------



## Alton

MarshallDog said:


> I am thinking about putting a Classic Tone OT in it. I was told they will make the amp sound great, much more vintage and they are cheap and easy to install. Maybe next month I will order one??? Any thoughts about this mod or about Classic Tone OT's??




According to Classic Tone's product list they currently only produce power transformers for the older JCM 2000 DSL 50w and TSL 60w.

I shot them off an email asking if these are useable in the new DSL 40C and 100H. If not, do they plan on making upgrade transformers for the new models. I will post the reply when I receive it.


----------



## solarburn

I was thinking Classic Tone iron too. Man I hope they can do it for our combo's too.

Personal experience on Mercury Mags in my DSL50...I didn't think it was a good fit especially for more vintage crunch from the amp. 

Let's us know what Classic Tone says Alton. Very interested in their response. Thanks for looking into it.


----------



## Micky

Yup, they have replacements.
I have one of their chokes installed on my 40c, and I love it.

I emailed them a while back looking for a 4-ohm OT, but I cannot remember the one they suggested...


----------



## solarburn

Oh cool man. 

I knew you had a choke. Chokes help out when shit gets turned up and played for awhile...like being gigged where an amp can get muddy after a few sets not to mention how hot combos get. The new iron makes it feel better and in my experience sustains better as well as drifts into harmonic feedback more readily. 

If I keep mine I'll do both choke and OT.


----------



## solarburn

I had my DSL50 modded to toggle between the choke and stock resistor. Really didn't make much of a difference until volume is added but this was after the OT was already changed too. Worth it in these amps IMO.


----------



## Straydog

lordquilton said:


> Well I installed the Creamback 65 in mine the other day, and I was messing with my son's Zoom H2N field recorder this morning. This is the result- dsl 40c + creamback 65 by lordquilton on SoundCloud - Hear the world The audio driver on the Zoom was quite temperamental going into my DAW, and it cut out quite abruptly. Sorry about that. It's crunch channel (backed off on the guitar for clean), and I kick in Ultra 2 near the end. Personally I think the Creamback is a good match for this amp, the cleans are even nicer, and I don't feel like I have to tame the Ultra channel with my guitar's tone knob any more. If I were doing modern metal I might go with a Vintage 30 or similar though.


 
I just changed mine to a Creamback too. I think it makes a big difference. I'm carefully breaking it in but it really does sound better than the 70/80. Bought my amp new so either speaker needs to be used a while but the Creamback seems to be a great match. I guess time will tell.


----------



## DSMer

MarshallDog said:


> I am thinking about putting a Classic Tone OT in it. I was told they will make the amp sound great, much more vintage and they are cheap and easy to install. Maybe next month I will order one??? Any thoughts about this mod or about Classic Tone OT's??



I have installed *Classic Tone 40-18025* output transformer and *40-18058* 3H choke on my DSL40c. It sure made a huge difference. The combination of both made my amp ballsier and a bit louder and this is with the stock speaker. I can't imagine what would it sound like once I put the V30 in there.


----------



## Micky

What about Power Transformers? Anyone feel the need to do that?


----------



## DSMer

Micky said:


> What about Power Transformers? Anyone feel the need to do that?



The stock should be sufficient but, like most tube amps it will benefit the use of a larger, more iron PT.

I did a voltage measurements on the secondary of DSL40C PT and contacted Classic Tone. Unfortunately they don't have one that would match the voltage specs.

RED: 500vAC
Orange: 6.3vAC
Yellow: 14.5vAC 

I searched the web and I also contacted Hammond here in Canada to no avail.

BTW, Classic Tone can do a custom upgraded copy of the stock PT but it would require a minimum order of 18 pieces.


----------



## Micky

How much $ was the OT? Shipping $?


----------



## solarburn

Output

$54.28

http://shop.amppartsdirect.com/Chokes-Drivers_c8.htm

$19.23

Or

http://store.triodestore.com/outrformajcm.html

http://store.triodestore.com/40-18058.html


----------



## Micky

Shipping is what gets ya though...
Cost me $15 shipping for a $19 dollar choke.


----------



## solarburn

Yeah I wouldn't bother with the PT.


----------



## solarburn

Micky said:


> Shipping is what gets ya though...
> Cost me $15 shipping for a $19 dollar choke.




Ouch!


----------



## Steve Naples

DSMer said:


> The stock should be sufficient but, like most tube amps it will benefit the use of a larger, more iron PT.
> 
> I did a voltage measurements on the secondary of DSL40C PT and contacted Classic Tone. Unfortunately they don't have one that would match the voltage specs.
> 
> RED: 500vAC
> Orange: 6.3vAC
> Yellow: 14.5vAC
> 
> I searched the web and I also contacted Hammond here in Canada to no avail.
> 
> BTW, Classic Tone can do a custom upgraded copy of the stock PT but it would require a minimum order of 18 pieces.



You can send the specs to Heyboer, they will do a one-off, I have one spec'd out for a custom build and no one else will do a one-off.


----------



## Alton

Ummm...not sure what you got Micky. Here's the reply I just got from Triode/Classic Tone



> Currently we do not carry a "drop-in" replacement OT for the DSL40C. I have emailed Marshall in hopes to acquire a schematic and mounting dimensions of the transformers in this amplifier.
> 
> 
> I'll save your email address and send along any info I receive.
> 
> 
> With Best Regards,
> -Chad at Triode USA




Maybe they have a suitable choke and power xfmr but definitely no OT yet.


----------



## Micky

All I have is the choke.
And I have sent Chad numerous schematics over the years...


----------



## Alton

Cool! So is the choke from the original DSL series the one you are using?


----------



## MarshallDog

Alton said:


> Ummm...not sure what you got Micky. Here's the reply I just got from Triode/Classic Tone
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe they have a suitable choke and power xfmr but definitely no OT yet.



Great info. Funny, I just left a message at Amp Parts Direct asking them to call me back in regards their Classic Tone OT for a Marshall DSL40C. I wonder what they will say???


----------



## Coronado

Finally got my 40 back (was in the shop for 2 weeks). Tech was pretty sure that "baaaawwww - baaaaawwww" sound I hear on the clean channel was a bad power tube. He put a couple JJ EL34s in it, said he turned it on and left it on for several hours, tested it again, over and over, and it sounded "as good as new". Couldnt wait to get it home. I even left work early that day so I could beat the lady home from work and test out the new amp. 

Plugged it in, sounds okay... turn it up just a tad.. "BAAAAWWWW - BAAAAWWWW":... Crap. It actually somehow sounds worse than it did before. So it must not be the tubes. I ordered a Greenback and a V30, so I'll try one of those and see if its the speaker?

Even the wife commented on the poor quality of sound. Just a real heavy buzz at the end of a strum or pluck of a string. Is that the speaker? Transformer?

I've been having trouble with this amp for a while now (spending an awful lot of time in the shop). Reverb didnt work, chord had short, all power and preamp tubes have been replaced (still has funky fuzz sound...), and now for some reason it sounds even worse? I cant figure this amp out. I record with this amp, and I dont gig with it, so its not like it gets moved around. odd...


----------



## solarburn

Is there something in the room that could be vibrating while you're playing? My baseboard heaters do and make this weird ass noise. Just a thought. I wonder why the tech didn't notice it...yet as soon as you get it fired up and playing its right there? Weird.

Is there a certain volume level it does it at? You said you turned it up and it made that sound as opposed to not making it while the volume was lowered.


----------



## MarshallDog

MarshallDog said:


> Great info. Funny, I just left a message at Amp Parts Direct asking them to call me back in regards their Classic Tone OT for a Marshall DSL40C. I wonder what they will say???



I spoke with Jim at Amp Parts Direct and he confirmed they do not make an OT specifically for the DSL40C. He said you could use the standard Marshall 50W OT but he said you would need to verify fitment and it may give you more headroom and less compression. Anyone check into Mercury Magnetics yet


----------



## DSMer

MarshallDog said:


> I spoke with Jim at Amp Parts Direct and he confirmed they do not make an OT specifically for the DSL40C. He said you could use the standard Marshall 50W OT but he said you would need to verify fitment and it may give you more headroom and less compression. Anyone check into Mercury Magnetics yet



That's what I used, a[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif] *40-18025*[/FONT] 50W (Plex, JMP. JCM800) OT. I had to drill new holes for the installation... no biggie. I have the same OT in my JMD501. Also, I have the [FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]*ClassicTone # 40-18026*[/FONT] 100W version in my EL34 converted 6100LM. I will post some pics soon.


----------



## MarshallDog

DSMer said:


> That's what I used, a[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif] *40-18025*[/FONT] 50W (Plex, JMP. JCM800) OT. I had to drill new holes for the installation... no biggie. I have the same OT in my JMD501. Also, I have the [FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]*ClassicTone # 40-18026*[/FONT] 100W version in my EL34 converted 6100LM. I will post some pics soon.



I know it is a tough thing to describe, but in your opinion, how if any do you think it affected the tone?


----------



## Micky

Also, what is the difference in size, especially height?


----------



## Pumpkin88

Coronado said:


> Finally got my 40 back (was in the shop for 2 weeks). Tech was pretty sure that "baaaawwww - baaaaawwww" sound I hear on the clean channel was a bad power tube. He put a couple JJ EL34s in it, said he turned it on and left it on for several hours, tested it again, over and over, and it sounded "as good as new". Couldnt wait to get it home. I even left work early that day so I could beat the lady home from work and test out the new amp.
> 
> Plugged it in, sounds okay... turn it up just a tad.. "BAAAAWWWW - BAAAAWWWW":... Crap. It actually somehow sounds worse than it did before. So it must not be the tubes. I ordered a Greenback and a V30, so I'll try one of those and see if its the speaker?
> 
> Even the wife commented on the poor quality of sound. Just a real heavy buzz at the end of a strum or pluck of a string. Is that the speaker? Transformer?
> 
> I've been having trouble with this amp for a while now (spending an awful lot of time in the shop). Reverb didnt work, chord had short, all power and preamp tubes have been replaced (still has funky fuzz sound...), and now for some reason it sounds even worse? I cant figure this amp out. I record with this amp, and I dont gig with it, so its not like it gets moved around. odd...



That doesn't sound too good I think I would send it back if its still within the return date. My amp has been working great *knock on wood* other than some "mechanical noise" from factory power tubes but I ordered some dampeners that should address that. After reading some of the posts on here about issues people are having I think I'm just going to leave everything as is, not going to **** with it. I honestly don't mind the stock tubes nor the stock speaker so I think I'm just going to leave it. As the saying goes if it ain't broke don't fix it haha.


----------



## solarburn

Pumpkin88 said:


> That doesn't sound too good I think I would send it back if its still within the return date. My amp has been working great *knock on wood* other than some "mechanical noise" from factory power tubes but I ordered some dampeners that should address that. After reading some of the posts on here about issues people are having I think I'm just going to leave everything as is, not going to **** with it. I honestly don't mind the stock tubes nor the stock speaker so I think I'm just going to leave it. As the saying goes if it ain't broke don't fix it haha.



Don't mess with it. If you like how it sounds leave it be.

I wouldn't mind changing the OT and putting a choke in not for tone improvements but to make it more durable while playing at volume or long periods of time and have it stay responsive.

I think I get good sounds from it as is too.

I played one at GC today that I swear had the C19 mod. Lead one was not cutting at all. Thing is they had it listed for $699 so they were selling it as new. It sounded good mind you but I'm pretty sure it wasn't stock. I had the gain down low on lead 1 and the EQ set evenly...it should have been biting me in the face not warm like it sounded.


----------



## Skylarkpilot

This is going to sound dumb but I'll ask anyway.
I'm just about to do the Classic Tone choke mod. I know Marshall use lead free solder. As I've never had any experience with lead free, is there any issue with using regular leaded solder for putting the new choke in ?


----------



## MarshallDog

Skylarkpilot said:


> This is going to sound dumb but I'll ask anyway.
> I'm just about to do the Classic Tone choke mod. I know Marshall use lead free solder. As I've never had any experience with lead free, is there any issue with using regular leaded solder for putting the new choke in ?



Nope...


----------



## Skylarkpilot

Thanks for that. I had assumed it was fine but.......


----------



## snshami

Hi, is there any way of increasing the amount of reverb one hears on this amp. Like others I have to really strain to hear it. Having two knobs on the amp that do nothing at all is pretty pointless.


----------



## solarburn

Well I stuffed the JJ34L's in mine and got ready to bias them up. Looked at the MM and they were at 36.2/36.5 with a PV of 464V. Man I could have left them just like that and not even touched the bias adjust. Great matching from Doug's Tubes. I set bias a bit lower at 35mv. 65%=34mv so 35mv is right there.

Results? Tightened up the lows and added some, still great mids and the highs were warmer. I could adjust the treble higher and presence. Mids I left where they were as they seemed to be in a good spot still.

Is this a much better presentation over the stock power tubes? Nah. The stock ones with the stock 70/80 sound fine and mine have been matched and stable. Solid sounding power tubes.

There are 2 more power tubes I want to demo. KT-77's and the TAD BSTR's. I had some KT-77's but they were drifting way too much and I don't even know why I kept them around in my tube box. I remember them being a problematic set. They would smell like they were burning too even though I saw no evidence of red plating. 

All these tube rolling results could change though once I put in a Creamback or G12-65 Heritage.LOL


----------



## solarburn

snshami said:


> Hi, is there any way of increasing the amount of reverb one hears on this amp. Like others I have to really strain to hear it. Having two knobs on the amp that do nothing at all is pretty pointless.



Mine seem strong enough but I have to admit they go unused. I prefer delay in the loop over reverb plus if I ever want reverb I have a pedal that pretty much goes unused.LOL

So those knobs for me are wasted.


----------



## solarburn

Here is a vid of the 70/80 compared to the G12-65 in an open back 112 using a Marshall amp. What Marshall I don't know. Excellent vid using parts of songs we all know to orientate from.

Let's hear which speaker tone/character you like best...

[ame=http://www.YouTube.com/watch?v=avwZ4OEF25g]Guitar Speakers comparison - Celestion: Seventy 80 vs G12-65 - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## solarburn

Just one more comparison and I'm only doing these cause I want to use them in the combo and present a good example of how the speakers perform covering some sonic territory.

Whatcha think?

[ame=http://www.YouTube.com/watch?v=du5sn1wtZWA]Celestion Creamback G12M-65 & G12H-75 - A/B Comparison - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## lordquilton

I watched that Creamback comparison a fair few times. At first I agreed with what seemed to be the Youtoob consensus- 75 kicks 65's ass. But I kept reading from people who have owned both, and my theory is that the 65 didn't get a fair shake with microphone placement in that particular video. 
You almost have to imagine away the grittiness to get an idea of what the Creamback is actually like. 

For my purposes (taming the DSL 40C's highs amongst other things), I concluded that the 65 was the way to go, but damn I wish I had the bread to spank that big-ass 75 magnet too! "Grrr, baby! Very grrr!" 

There's something about the Seventy80's open mid range that is appealing, and the bass almost gets like a Classic Lead 80 (which I reckon is a good thing). But the price seems to be a lot of brittleness in the highs, and on Back In Black it almost sounds "smeared" compared to the G12, if you know what I mean.

It's always a bit of a mind-**** with these vs. things- I seem to find things I like in whatever gets played FIRST, so when the next example comes along, it's like WTF?! But I am going to assert that if the G12-65 had gone first, the Seventy80 would have come off as more trashy.

And I know folk's are striving for objectivity, but in the real world (wherever that is), you would eq different speakers to taste, so no speaker really sounds as good as it can in the average "shootout".

(I'm sorry stock speaker owners, don't listen to me, I'm just some wanker on the internet, your DSL 40C sounds great!)

Seventy80 might be a good one to start mixing speakers with, say if you've got something with some fuller bass that's a little dark maybe?


----------



## solarburn

lordquilton said:


> For my purposes (taming the DSL 40C's highs amongst other things), I concluded that the 65 was the way to go, but damn I wish I had the bread to spank that big-ass 75 magnet too! "Grrr, baby! Very grrr!"



This is my goal and even though the 75 was more present/open the 65 had that smoothness that would help a bright amp. That's why I like the Creamback and the Heritage 65.

The DSL40's inherent brightness needs to be factored in and how the 70/80 translates the top end of the amp. Nothing's perfect and always a bit of compromise somewhere with this Marshall.LOL

Now the first vid where the 70/80 sounds good through each session I actually enjoyed the wooliness of the 65 even though it sounded less refined. Also I liked how the soloing sounded on the 65 better. Having said that the 70/80 is a viable speaker. I've become impressed with it. Except for that brittleness that comes along with the highs.

Of course the need for speaker changes are going to change if the DSL circuit is modded like the C19 mod. This makes the circuit warmer across the red channel resulting in the need to tame the previous brightness of the amp.

Plus for me I'm a fan of GB speakers. I have 2 412's with them.


----------



## lordquilton

I had the C19 done, had my guy put in 100pf. On red 2 I still wanna back off my guitars tone to 5 for chords, single notes sound fine. Bite on green crunch just equals too harsh on red for me. Using a Monte Allums Blues Driver on green to get more gain for hard rock, it's working fairly well.

I PMed Marty about some tubes, but I thought I might throw it open on the preamp tubes thread to take advantage of the group wisdom, if you wanna come over.


----------



## Micky

I have a set from Marty in mine, and haven't looked back.
They sound awesome.
Mullard NOS in V1, black plate in V2, etc. It is outlined earlier in this thread...


----------



## solarburn

Micky said:


> I have a set from Marty in mine, and haven't looked back.
> They sound awesome.
> Mullard NOS in V1, black plate in V2, etc. It is outlined earlier in this thread...



Solid one two punch combo on V1/V2 Micky.

Right now I've got the stock V1 in and then the BP in V2. I haven't wanted to change any more yet. Also I ordered some 9th generation shugs for a listen in V1 and or V2. Thought I try some current Chinese production and see.

http://www.dougstubes.com/preamp-tubes/12ax7-ecc83-7025/ruby-12ax7-ac5-high-grade-1.html

http://www.dougstubes.com/preamp-tubes/12ax7-ecc83-7025/ruby-12ax7-ac5-high-grade.html


----------



## solarburn

lordquilton said:


> I had the C19 done, had my guy put in 100pf. On red 2 I still wanna back off my guitars tone to 5 for chords, single notes sound fine. Bite on green crunch just equals too harsh on red for me. Using a Monte Allums Blues Driver on green to get more gain for hard rock, it's working fairly well.
> 
> I PMed Marty about some tubes, but I thought I might throw it open on the preamp tubes thread to take advantage of the group wisdom, if you wanna come over.



I'm going to wait on the mod until I've got everything else done. Pretty much the speaker. I've got plenty Marty NOS tubes stashed and messing with some CP as well. Marty is an invaluable tube resource.

I find the same result adjusting enough bite on the EQ for the Crunch voicing. It makes the red way to trebly. I'm still predominantly playing on LEAD 2 and rolling back for rhythm and cleanish. I then roll up for lead but not always. Get'n a lot out of that channel with gain set at 2.5 only.

I love that you guys are stating the cap values when making changes cause I definitely like to know when a good sub is used.


----------



## lordquilton

Micky said:


> I have a set from Marty in mine, and haven't looked back.
> They sound awesome.
> Mullard NOS in V1, black plate in V2, etc. It is outlined earlier in this thread...



Yes, I've read the whole thread a few times so I saw that. A clip is worth a thousand words, they say...

Just ribbin' ya! 

I've been putting it off cause I thought NOS would be prohibitively expensive, and I wanted to try the speaker change first, but the time has come!
And hang the expense, I don't have any other expensive vices!


----------



## solarburn

lordquilton said:


> Yes, I've read the whole thread a few times so I saw that. A clip is worth a thousand words, they say...
> 
> Just ribbin' ya!
> 
> I've been putting it off cause I thought NOS would be prohibitively expensive, and I wanted to try the speaker change first, but the time has come!
> And hang the expense, I don't have any other expensive vices!



You're in trouble now...


----------



## lordquilton

Tell me about it! I've had this 16 ft Whirlwind Leader for 15+ years now. Bought a 10ft planet waves for the overdrive pedal, can hear the goddamn difference whether the 10 ft (more presence) is before the 16 ft (woodier body)!
Can only be a few steps away from "EricJohnson-itis", and getting anal about Duracell vs Eveready..

But hey, at least I'm with similarly afflicted poor souls here on Marshallforum.com, right?

Good company methinks.


----------



## solarburn

Absolutely!LMAO


----------



## Rocktane

I liked the 65 in both videos.


----------



## Coronado

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Is there something in the room that could be vibrating while you're playing? My baseboard heaters do and make this weird ass noise. Just a thought. I wonder why the tech didn't notice it...yet as soon as you get it fired up and playing its right there? Weird.





solarburnDSL50 said:


> Is there a certain volume level it does it at? You said you turned it up and it made that sound as opposed to not making it while the volume was lowered.




It doesn’t seem to be a vibration, it’s more of buzz sound - similar to what a speaker sounds like when it doesn’t work properly. When we were in his shop, at first he couldn’t hear it. After about 2 or 3 minutes or so, on the clean channel, he could hear it. That’s why he first thought it was the tubes. Here’s the thing, if you give it plenty of volume, its less pronounced and harder to hear, or, add some gain and you can’t hear the sound at all. He had the amp for 2 weeks - he may have forgotten that you have to turn the volume down a bit and make it as clean as possible, then you will hear that sound. When you turn it up, it’s harder to hear.

Try this - switch your DSL40 to the clean channel, turn off the clean crunch button, then turn your clean gain low enough that you still get some sound, but that it is as clean as can be. Strike your E, A or D string on the 12/13/14 fret. How clean is it? Any strange noise? On mine, when you do those same steps, there is this fuzzy thick tone that accompanies the sound of the normal sound. it is not crisp at all. Here’s another test I did: I turned on my delay and would strike a string and even the echo would cause that muffled buzzing _baaaaawwww_ sound. Now imagine what it sounds like when I use the rhythm pickup... yuck.

I don’t play out much at all, I'm really getting in to recording. I gotta tell ya, listen to that sound for about a 30 minutes and it will start to drive you crazy. It has new JJ EL 34s and JJ preamp tubes. I ordered a couple different Celestion speakers, so I'm going to see if its the speaker perhaps. I keep telling myself that I'll just turn up the gain and use my other amps for the clean stuff. But, a little bit of obsessive disorder in me keeps me going back to the amp trying to figure out why it is making this sound. I may have just let it be and say that’s just how the amp sounds, but I played 2 other DSL40s at 2 different stores and they didn’t make that sound. I’ll try the other speaker - if that doesn’t fix it, I'll ask the tech to see if we can try it again and see what’s making that lovely sound.

Thanks again for the suggestions - let’s hope that new speaker does the trick.


----------



## Skylarkpilot

So what about the Classic Lead 80, are they good in a combo ?
I was leaning towards a Texas Heat, then I listened to a Texas Heat v Man 'o' War comparison and now I don't know what I think. The only good thing is confusion is saving me money......for now.


----------



## Micky

Skylarkpilot said:


> So what about the Classic Lead 80, are they good in a combo ?
> I was leaning towards a Texas Heat, then I listened to a Texas Heat v Man 'o' War comparison and now I don't know what I think. The only good thing is confusion is saving me money......for now.



Saving money? Stop wasting big bucks on Celestion Chinese stuff then.

Eminence Texas Heat, Swamp Thang, even a WGS Vet30 are all under $80 each with free shipping at MF... And they are MADE IN USA.


----------



## Pumpkin88

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Here is a vid of the 70/80 compared to the G12-65 in an open back 112 using a Marshall amp. What Marshall I don't know. Excellent vid using parts of songs we all know to orientate from.
> 
> Let's hear which speaker tone/character you like best...
> 
> Guitar Speakers comparison - Celestion: Seventy 80 vs G12-65 - YouTube



That was a good comparison. I liked both, ideally I think I would keep the 70/80 in the combo and have an ext. cab with the g12's I think that would make for a nice balanced sound.


----------



## solarburn

Eminence has some good offerings. I've got my choices down to 2 specific speakers I really like and they are Celestions. Good ones.

I also have a Veteran 30 from WGS which is a warmer V30. Sounds good.

I like the GB 128 Eminence cause its a Greenback like speaker and Eminence usually have high SPL's which translates to higher volume or headroom.

Lots of great choices out there...good luck choosing though. Hard to roll speakers unless you have money to burn.


----------



## lordquilton

Micky said:


> Saving money? Stop wasting big bucks on Celestion Chinese stuff then.
> 
> Oh, Chinese Schminese!
> 
> Eminence Texas Heat, Swamp Thang, even a WGS Vet30 are all under $80 each with free shipping at MF... And they are MADE IN USA.



That maybe doesn't mean as much to us in Australia or Sweden. On Ebay Australia, the Eminence are generally up there in price with the mid range Celestions. e.g. I got my (UK made) Creamback delivered for $169 (AUD)
The Cannabis Rex 12" I can get for $159 (AUD).
Likewise the Vet 30 and the Vintage 30 can be had for about the same price.

I live in a rural area, it would be several hours drive to try out speakers in person. So I'm stuck with the web to help make a choice in speakers.
And I'm gonna say it- in a lot of the web research I did, the Eminence sounded weird to me at first. I think it might be because the "Celestion" sound is what a lot of people associate with rock. That's my theory anyway.

It's hard for me to say this, because I respect you guys and your opinions.
Like I know Marty loves the Black Mountain in one of his amps. I wish I could hear it, cos' when I hear it with other Alnico's here-
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPPMiZeYMVo"]12 speakers compared 8 alnico's & 2 ceramics jensen vs blue vs gold vs scumback vs Celestion - YouTube[/ame]
it sounds like it's inside a box or something. I can hear (now), how the underlying tone is really quite nice and rich. So with the amount of listening I've done in the last few months, I can imagine that would probably be great to add bottom to a bright Marshall maybe?

But then I hear the Vintage 30 later on in that video, and it's like it gets the blood going! I don't know, it just sounds like the experience of live music somehow.

And the Celestion Gold...just wipes the floor with lot of them for me. Gotta stop watching it.

I don't think I'm a Celestion fanboy, I'd try anything I could get my hands on if I could afford it. The "celestion sizzle " just seems to get peoples attention somehow.

Ahh, Celestion Gold. Soo desirable, so financially unjustifiable!
Is there like a GAS anonymous? I think I need help.


----------



## JEB

lordquilton said:


> And the Celestion Gold...just wipes the floor with lot of them for me. Gotta stop watching it.
> 
> I don't think I'm a Celestion fanboy, I'd try anything I could get my hands on if I could afford it. The "celestion sizzle " just seems to get peoples attention somehow.
> 
> Ahh, Celestion Gold. Soo desirable, so financially unjustifiable!
> Is there like a GAS anonymous? I think I need help.



I've put the Gold in mine and haven't regretted it. It does have a revved-up sizzle to it and it brought back the good part of the top end that was tamed after I did the C19 mod.


----------



## Micky

In the end, it is all about what sounds good to you. To me, it doesn't matter what brand or where it was made, it is more about saving money and exploring all options.

The whole purpose of this thread was to relate each others experiences, knowing full well that they would be different. A veritable encyclopedia of information all in one spot about the DSL40c. Having said that yet again, personally I feel it is wonderful that so many have decided to post their mods and settings, and I truly hope this can become yet another epic thread here at MF...

Sometimes we forget this is a global community, with players and techs from all over the globe. What is inexpensive and practical for one, is sometimes prohibitively expensive and difficult to obtain for others who may live in a different part of the world. This is why it is so important for us to all understand that while tone and the quest for the ultimate tone is subjective, it is also very individual and unique.

I often forget that people in other areas of the world do not have the same opportunities as we do here in the States. Things produced here are naturally less expensive because of the shipping costs NOT associated with manufacturing. The other problem that arises is that of taxes and other import duties that sometimes make purchases of certain brands prohibitively expensive. This is why it is SO important for us to relate our experiences and tip each other off about bargains and other advantages.

With a little understanding I am certain we will ALL benefit from each other, just keep posting no matter how trivial or unimportant you might think it is!


----------



## lordquilton

Amen.
Hard to get a bad sound out of this thing, stock or modified!

Messing around with settings again today, gave the resonance a good turning up with the master just above 2 on both channels. Previously never set resonance past noon. Presence quite low; I doubt it's news to anyone here that presence seems like the most sensitive tonal control on this amp (any tube amp?)
Like turning it up 2 millimetres at a time to just keep the bite in against bass/resonance.

Apart from the almost scary (but great) augmentation in chest thump, there was something about this setting that seemed to balance the green and red channels more. Swamp those pesky highs with monster bass, then back off resonance a little to keep things tight. 

Did notice what sounded like glass rattling when some lower notes were let ring. Silicone power tube dampeners are on order from ebay. Seems like this amp is coming out of it's corner tomorrow, literally and figuratively!

Ye Gods, what a beast!

I do hope the neighbors appreciate it.


----------



## lordquilton

JEB said:


> I've put the Gold in mine and haven't regretted it. It does have a revved-up sizzle to it and it brought back the good part of the top end that was tamed after I did the C19 mod.



So the three way generally lives at 100pf, JEB?
Wangchung was saying a little while back that 220pf is perhaps the sweet spot as far as retaining the mids. On paper anyway. Playing with the idea of convincing my tech friend it would not be splitting hairs to go between 100, 220 and 470.

Also, can I ask everyone their opinion of ceramic vs silver mica at C19?
I imagine for live the difference would be imperceptible for most?
Maybe that's a question better asked over at the Workbench/ Joeys mod thread.
Sadly for the untechnical like me, they appear to be speaking another language most of the time


----------



## solarburn

lordquilton said:


> So the three way generally lives at 100pf, JEB?
> Wangchung was saying a little while back that 220pf is perhaps the sweet spot as far as retaining the mids. On paper anyway. Playing with the idea of convincing my tech friend it would not be splitting hairs to go between 100, 220 and 470.
> 
> Also, can I ask everyone their opinion of ceramic vs silver mica at C19?
> I imagine for live the difference would be imperceptible for most?
> Maybe that's a question better asked over at the Workbench/ Joeys mod thread.
> Sadly for the untechnical like me, they appear to be speaking another language most of the time



I've been reading up on this mod and what users have been experiencing and I think I would go with a 100pf first...for a reference point. I'm seeing these guys use the ceramic version.

My issue is I don't solder and my hands aren't real steady...sometimes they jump. I'd like to learn to do it though so I could do cap changes.


----------



## Micky

lordquilton said:


> So the three way generally lives at 100pf, JEB?
> Wangchung was saying a little while back that 220pf is perhaps the sweet spot as far as retaining the mids. On paper anyway. Playing with the idea of convincing my tech friend it would not be splitting hairs to go between 100, 220 and 470.
> 
> Also, can I ask everyone their opinion of ceramic vs silver mica at C19?
> I imagine for live the difference would be imperceptible for most?
> Maybe that's a question better asked over at the Workbench/ Joeys mod thread.
> Sadly for the untechnical like me, they appear to be speaking another language most of the time



Not untechnical at all! I mean really, a non-tech person would not know or even care about the difference between silver mica (what is in the DSL40c OEM) and ceramic disc caps.

I would imagine in this application very minimal difference would result.

I hope others will chime in here about this...


----------



## JEB

lordquilton said:


> So the three way generally lives at 100pf, JEB?



For the lower volumes that I typically play here at the house, it is usually set on 0pf.

I'm not a very good guitar player, but if I get motivated, I'll record something to show the difference between the 3 different settings and hack my way through something.


----------



## Roger Tyria

New Power tubes installed this weekend - All I can say is WOW
Put a fresh set of JJ 6CA7's in the DSL40..
What a HUGE change in sound out of this little beast.

Still seeing some drift in Bias, but they have not had 4 hours of burn time yet. Wish I would have put these in 3 months ago, amp seemed to just be lacking that sparkle and growl.

Bought a set of Tung Sol EL34B's for yet another flavour to work with when I get the itch.


----------



## Coronado

Been doing my homework, trying to figure out what could be causing those strange sounds in my amp. Came accross a guy who was rather upset that the new JJEL34s that he just put in his amp only lasted 2 days. He said he was tapping the tube and the cathode came loose. I would think the tubes would be made to handle some vibrations and would take a bit more than just tapping the tube to cause it to fail. But, I could be wrong...

Is it possible that the new JJs that were put in my amp could have already failed? The tech said he tested the amp all day after putting in the new tubes and it ran like new. Any chance there could have been some damage to these new tubes when I transported the amp to my house?

One more question: On the tube boxes, he wrote 33 and 5.5. Just for my education, is the 33 in relation to cathode current? What is the 5.5?

Thanks!


----------



## DSMer

Micky said:


> Also, what is the difference in size, especially height?



No difference in height. The iron is much thicker by about 3/8".



MarshallDog said:


> I know it is a tough thing to describe, but in your opinion, how if any do you think it affected the tone?



Bigger iron equals wider bandwith i.e more treble, mid and bass. It's like the effect of a "loudness" button on an old school stereo receiver". Since the OT is rated at 50watts I can say my DSL40 is a now a 50 watter.


----------



## solarburn

Roger Tyria said:


> New Power tubes installed this weekend - All I can say is WOW
> Put a fresh set of JJ 6CA7's in the DSL40..
> What a HUGE change in sound out of this little beast.
> 
> Still seeing some drift in Bias, but they have not had 4 hours of burn time yet. Wish I would have put these in 3 months ago, amp seemed to just be lacking that sparkle and growl.
> 
> Bought a set of Tung Sol EL34B's for yet another flavour to work with when I get the itch.



I came sooo close to getting these as I haven't tried them yet. Now you make me wish I did haha. Dammit!LOL


----------



## Micky

DSMer said:


> No difference in height. The iron is much thicker by about 3/8".
> 
> 
> 
> Bigger iron equals wider bandwith i.e more treble, mid and bass. It's like the effect of a "loudness" button on an old school stereo receiver". Since the OT is rated at 50watts I can say my DSL40 is a now a 50 watter.



So it will require new mounting holes?

Did you photograph the installation process?


----------



## Roger Tyria

Coronado said:


> Been doing my homework, trying to figure out what could be causing those strange sounds in my amp. Came accross a guy who was rather upset that the new JJEL34s that he just put in his amp only lasted 2 days. He said he was tapping the tube and the cathode came loose. I would think the tubes would be made to handle some vibrations and would take a bit more than just tapping the tube to cause it to fail. But, I could be wrong...
> 
> Is it possible that the new JJs that were put in my amp could have already failed? The tech said he tested the amp all day after putting in the new tubes and it ran like new. Any chance there could have been some damage to these new tubes when I transported the amp to my house?
> 
> One more question: On the tube boxes, he wrote 33 and 5.5. Just for my education, is the 33 in relation to cathode current? What is the 5.5?
> 
> Thanks!


Coronado,
While my amp was out on the bench this weekend for new Power tubes and a tune up I too noticed the same low level buzzing you have explanined. I started swapping out pre amp tubes and seemed to help, but never really went away. Finally I was wigging V1 tube in the socket and heard a lot of scratching noise. Hit a chord on the guitar and the buzz was gone. The light bulb in my head came on, I turned off power and got out my contact cleaner. Cleaned all the tube sockets, input jack, and speaker jacks.

All back together and fired it back up... No more buzz and the amp has never sounded this good. Even though my amp is only about 2 years old it may be worth a try cleaning all those connections, as well as try rolling pre amp tubes to see if you can ispolate the source of that decaying buzz.

Good Luck!


----------



## Coronado

Roger Tyria said:


> Coronado,





Roger Tyria said:


> While my amp was out on the bench this weekend for new Power tubes and a tune up I too noticed the same low level buzzing you have explanined. I started swapping out pre amp tubes and seemed to help, but never really went away. Finally I was wigging V1 tube in the socket and heard a lot of scratching noise. Hit a chord on the guitar and the buzz was gone. The light bulb in my head came on, I turned off power and got out my contact cleaner. Cleaned all the tube sockets, input jack, and speaker jacks.
> 
> All back together and fired it back up... No more buzz and the amp has never sounded this good. Even though my amp is only about 2 years old it may be worth a try cleaning all those connections, as well as try rolling pre amp tubes to see if you can ispolate the source of that decaying buzz.
> 
> Good Luck!




Not a bad idea at all! I'll give it a try! Its so funny - even though this thing keeps me on my toes, cant get rid of that odd hum sound, the reverb worked for about a week after the recent repair and now it stopped working again, replaced all the tubes and still no luck... BUT, I just LOVE the hell out of this thing!! Sure it might hum at low volume, but that will be fixed eventually. I have a small handful of amps - Marshall, Blackstar, Orange, and Fender. I just cannot stop plugging into that DSL40!! Even though the DSL40 and I fight back and forth on a daily basis, I just love flippin that little red "on" switch as often as I can! I will NEVER get rid of this amp. I have a feeling that one day she is going to land on that perfect sound and all this tinkering and trips to the tech are going to be SO worth it!


----------



## wangchung

lordquilton said:


> So the three way generally lives at 100pf, JEB?
> Wangchung was saying a little while back that 220pf is perhaps the sweet spot as far as retaining the mids. On paper anyway. Playing with the idea of convincing my tech friend it would not be splitting hairs to go between 100, 220 and 470.
> 
> Also, can I ask everyone their opinion of ceramic vs silver mica at C19?
> I imagine for live the difference would be imperceptible for most?
> Maybe that's a question better asked over at the Workbench/ Joeys mod thread.
> Sadly for the untechnical like me, they appear to be speaking another language most of the time



M'Lord;
There are very noticable differences b'twn 100, 220 & 470pf for C19.
Had I kept the thing and put in a 3-way for C19 I would have used 100,
220 and something around 400.
Yes, the cap materiel adds a texture to the sound. Ceramic is "crunchier",
poly is fizzier, and Mica is glassy. Go figure. At least to my ears. at one point I ran a mica parallel with a ceramic and could hear it.
Good hunting sir.


----------



## Duffy49

wangchung said:


> I had this thing sounding great last week...is it me or does the sound change
> day to day? Pedals all sounded like shit through it this wknd. Spikey highs on the
> lead channel came back....what a POS. Weeks of work was lipstick on a pig.
> I pulled it first break sat nite and plugged my Crate club 20 hd in. I'm done with it.
> Good luck with it guys.




Wow. You went thru two of these things astonishingly fast. It seems like you just started posting here about a month ago, but I know it has been longer.

Didn't you return the first one and get a replacement that looked like it had been used - non-stock power tubes maybe? Maybe that one was already messed up.

If you bought that first one new, you might be able to go to a local Marshall dealer and see if they will call Marshall and talk to them about sending you a different model amp in exchange.

I did that with my JMD 100 watt head and Marshall sent me a better all tube amp, brand new, at no charge to me. My JMD broke down three times in less than six months. It was a great amp but the one I had was not dependable and I had lost confidence in it. Plus those computerized amps are going to be super hard and expensive to fix farther down the road.

Good luck with working out an exchange or whatever you decide to do.


----------



## wangchung

Duffy49 said:


> Wow. You went thru two of these things astonishingly fast. It seems like you just started posting here about a month ago, but I know it has been longer.
> 
> Didn't you return the first one and get a replacement that looked like it had been used - non-stock power tubes maybe? Maybe that one was already messed up.
> 
> If you bought that first one new, you might be able to go to a local Marshall dealer and see if they will call Marshall and talk to them about sending you a different model amp in exchange.
> 
> I did that with my JMD 100 watt head and Marshall sent me a better all tube amp, brand new, at no charge to me. My JMD broke down three times in less than six months. It was a great amp but the one I had was not dependable and I had lost confidence in it. Plus those computerized amps are going to be super hard and expensive to fix farther down the road.
> 
> Good luck with working out an exchange or whatever you decide to do.



Yea, 7 wks roughly. I'm "retired", I have time. IMHO this is a good design.
Random poor soldering joints/QC are killing it. Yea, the second one I picked up was a return too. JJ34L's and 2 "premium" GT silver pl 12ax7's were in it.
The guys at GC told me they had un-boxed it a few days earlier. Not.
It's gone. I'll lug around my old DSL50 for awhile. It kills.
There will be more comprehensive circut mods put forth sooner than later
no doubt for the 40C, like the JCM2000's. A card refund is of more use to
me now however.


----------



## Micky

Hey Wang - It was still good while it lasted... Too bad you got a couple duds.

Mine is still going strong after a year or so, must be I got a good one. I have pushed it hard, as well as babied it at times, but she still rocks.

Anyway, what I wanted to say was that I think the time and effort you put into your was really kind of neat for everyone else. The info you have posted is invaluable, and even though you have moved on the fact remains that you did great while you had it.

I think we are all looking forward to your next project!


----------



## lordquilton

Micky said:


> Hey Wang - It was still good while it lasted... Too bad you got a couple duds.
> 
> Mine is still going strong after a year or so, must be I got a good one. I have pushed it hard, as well as babied it at times, but she still rocks.
> 
> Anyway, what I wanted to say was that I think the time and effort you put into your was really kind of neat for everyone else. The info you have posted is invaluable, and even though you have moved on the fact remains that you did great while you had it.
> 
> I think we are all looking forward to your next project!



+1!


----------



## solarburn

Coronado said:


> Not a bad idea at all! I'll give it a try! Its so funny - even though this thing keeps me on my toes, cant get rid of that odd hum sound, the reverb worked for about a week after the recent repair and now it stopped working again, replaced all the tubes and still no luck... BUT, I just LOVE the hell out of this thing!! Sure it might hum at low volume, but that will be fixed eventually. I have a small handful of amps - Marshall, Blackstar, Orange, and Fender. I just cannot stop plugging into that DSL40!! Even though the DSL40 and I fight back and forth on a daily basis, I just love flippin that little red "on" switch as often as I can! I will NEVER get rid of this amp. I have a feeling that one day she is going to land on that perfect sound and all this tinkering and trips to the tech are going to be SO worth it!



Just like my DSL50 when the effects loop is plugged in the amp hums a bit. Unplug loop and it's gone. I don't mind it on mine cause I know what is inducing it and its noticeable but not bad. I have a NS-2 in loop and it silences the hum so it wouldn't be picked up during recording. 

I'm not sure if this is the low level hum you're talking about or something else altogether. Just thought I'd mention it anyway if others noticed an increase in amp hum when loop is plugged in.


----------



## solarburn

I just got some dampeners from Eurotubes. Since V1 already has the grommet I got the remaining preamp tubes covered plus the 34L's.

If you get these don't put them on the preamp tubes while in the amp. Pull the tubes and work the dampeners on then just pop them back in the amp. It takes some force to get them on the preamp tubes and you don't want to push tubes through the PCP trying to get them on.

The power tube dampeners were much easier and I was able to leave the tubes in and not be concerned with the force I was using. Also from the wording on Eurotubes it looks like they only have fat bottle dampeners meaning they may not fit the more slender EL34's. He lists what ones they do fit and the 34L's are one of them.

I would rather have these dampeners on in a combo. Lots of vibrations around them tubes.


----------



## Markuslee

I installed new EL34B’s into my DSL40c. Checked the bias on one side (pin 1) and set it to 38mV. Checked pin 3 and the meter read OL. What does that mean? It would give no voltage reading only the symbols, OL. I moved the trim pot back and forth and this had no effect. I replaced the tube in that socket with another new tube and again same readings.

*The amp seems to work but sounds terrible.*

Thanks!


----------



## Micky

Use the right pin to adjust the left side.

I will bet it has a loud hummmmmmm...


----------



## Markuslee

When using Pin 1 I got a reading of 38mV after making a small adjustment to the trim pot. When trying Pin 3 I got the reading of "OL" ( I assume stands for over load but don't know). There is no loud hum at all. Adn no adjustments to the corresponding trim pot made any effect at all.

The amp sounds like crap and I cannot adjust the bias for this tube.

*Any ideas what's broke?*


----------



## Micky

Are you sure you are adjusting the proper trim pot?
The left trim pot controls the right bias pin..
And vice versa.

There is a chance you have a bad tube.
Did you put in the originals and try that?

The info for biasing this amp is the very first page of this thread...

(but I am sure you read that, right?)


----------



## Markuslee

yes I am 100% sure I am testing using the right spot, (please see images in this thread, I used the same bais testing point indicated in those images). And yes I was aware of the trim pots being opposite the adjustment pins.

I had 4 matched el34b's brand new, and tried all three in the bogus tube socket all with the same result. I tried all 4 tube sin the good socket and all 4 worked fine and I was able to adjust the bias. I also tried the old tubes with the same result.

One more note:
The tube that had an adjustable bias (set to 38mV) got warm like it should, where it was not a good idea to hold it for long. The other one lit up but did not even warm up as much as a pre-amp tube does. This one read "OL" on the meter and no adjustment of the trim pot had any effect.


----------



## Micky

Sounds like a problem with the socket or the components attached to the socket pins.

Without being there it is difficult to tell what could be wrong.
Are there any obviously charred or broken components on that tube socket?
Are you comfortable troubleshooting these types of problems?
Do you have the proper equipment to diagnose these types of problems?
Can you adjust your meter to see what the actual voltage is?

Sorry for all the questions, but these were not clear to me from your posts...


----------



## Markuslee

*Thank you for the responses:*
Here's my answers:

Are there any obviously charred or broken components on that tube socket?
*ZERO – nothing at all*

Are you comfortable troubleshooting these types of problems?
*Not really. I felt comfortable doing the bais after reading these threads but that’s the end of skills.*

Do you have the proper equipment to diagnose these types of problems?
*All I have is a simple multi meter and a biasing testing tool. The tool worked great and gave the same result as when I did NOT use the tool and just tested from the bias test points.*

Can you adjust your meter to see what the actual voltage is?
*No, but the meter does go from zero to over 100. I had no problem adjusting the side that worked.*


----------



## Luis Goi

Hello Everyone,

I received my DSL40c last week. I introduced myself and asked for some advices on how to use my Tonelab EX through in this another thread.
http://www.marshallforum.com/marshall-amps/52289-marshall-dsl40c-4.html#post1073016

And here are my findings after a feel days:
http://www.marshallforum.com/marshall-amps/52289-marshall-dsl40c-4.html#post1077122

I’d like to share with you my impressions about the amp itself now. You must consider, however, that I’m a very beginner guitar player. I’m studding for just a year and I don’t have lots of experience with different amps and pedals. My only background is my Vox Valvetronix VT40+, my Vox Tonelab unit and the Amplitube (iPad and PC versions) for home studies. Another thing to have in mind is that I’ve only played the amp at bedroom volumes till now.

As I mentioned in the other post, I loved the sound of the amp. I haven’t known what a warm and organic sound meant till play this amp. 

I guess the classic crunch channel is what I liked most. The kind of tone I’m looking for is something among Led Zeppelin, Hendrix and Black Crows. That is, a 60’s and 70’s Marshall’s crunch. And it was exactly what I could get from this channel with my Stratocaster. I know I need a decent Les Paul, now, but let’s move step by step 

I noticed a big tonal difference between classic and lead channel. This one is much more opened (treble) than that one, especially in the lead 1. Maybe use the crunch for slight overdrives and cleans and the lead 2 with little gain for more powerful overdrives can be handful. I´ll try it! Definitely, use the crunch channel for riffs and cords and then change to lead 1 for solos is not an option. Maybe with a quick move on the guitar tone knobs it can work. But I guess my skill limitations don’t allow me 

I guess I’ll try the C19 mod someday. But I don’t feel comfortable messing around with this kind of thing. I don’t even have a soldering iron.

When properly equalized, the original tubes and speaker are great. Of course, I’ve never heard others so intently, but they sound very good to my taste. I was able to get not only decent, but real good crunched, distorted, high and ultra gain sounds even at bedroom volume and a stratocaster. The way the amp reacts to the attack intensity over the strings is amazing. I’ve never thought I was able to do that  Even in high gain setups, full chords can be played with definition (imagine the chorus of Alice in Chains’ “Would?”), since you go easy when strumming. I was able to go from the first guitar parts on Stairway to Heaven to the chords that precede the solo without change any amp or guitar knob, just putting more intensity in my right hand. 

The major problem I found was the clean sounds. I was expecting more definition, clarity and punch. I know I can’t get a Fender clean from the same amp I get a so wonderful Marshal crunch, but it disappointed me a little. I don’t know if at rehearsal volumes its clean sound will show up, but at bedroom volumes it doesn’t. I could achieve better results from the crunch channel with these sets: gain 4 (with a stratocaster), treble 4, middle 6 and bass 8. I didn’t have enough time to deal with resonance and presence yet, so I left them in 5.

In resume, I loved the crunched classic crunch, the lead 1 and the lead 2, each one in a different way. I guess the equalization difference between the channels is quite noticeable, and the C19 mod is an option to keep in mind. I don’t think the lead channel is over treble, but just more high-pitched than the classic channel. I have to check the clean sounds at higher volume. It didn’t impress me in my bedroom. Though, even with these minor problems I loved the amp and think I acquired a good base for my futures tone journeys.
 
Regards,


----------



## Micky

Markuslee said:


> *Thank you for the responses:*
> Here's my answers:
> 
> Are there any obviously charred or broken components on that tube socket?
> *ZERO – nothing at all*
> 
> Are you comfortable troubleshooting these types of problems?
> *Not really. I felt comfortable doing the bais after reading these threads but that’s the end of skills.*
> 
> Do you have the proper equipment to diagnose these types of problems?
> *All I have is a simple multi meter and a biasing testing tool. The tool worked great and gave the same result as when I did NOT use the tool and just tested from the bias test points.*
> 
> Can you adjust your meter to see what the actual voltage is?
> *No, but the meter does go from zero to over 100. I had no problem adjusting the side that worked.*



As you aren't comfortable troubleshooting and/or repairing the amp, I am afraid it is time to take it for repair. Hopefully it will be something inexpensive. Is there an authorized repair center near you? Is the amp new? You should start where you purchased it...


----------



## saxon68

I thought OL was open load, as in nothing. Is it possible for it to run on one tube? No juice going to the other one for whatever reason? I would return it and get another.


----------



## Micky

OL on a DMM generally signifies 'overload'.

Chances are it is a 200 mv range, and anything over that will max out that range. Moving to the next range up may yield some clues, that is why I asked. Maybe he is relying on a bias probe meter, and it may not have an adjustable range...

This is why I prefer auto-ranging meters in some situations. Especially for users who need that extra bit of convenience.

200mv or more is way too much for the bias of this rig, so I expect some other component is out of spec here, especially if it is localized to one socket, and doesn't follow the tube. Without the ability to check the suspect components it is virtually impossible to troubleshoot, so it is best to take it to an authorized repair center for diagnosis. If a component has drifted or failed, the 5-year warranty should cover the cost of repair.


----------



## Markuslee

Just wanted to thank everyone for the great input. It’s going in the shop next week. Unfortunately there are no reliable Marshal service folks in my area, so warranty or not it’s coming out of my pocket. 

I’ve read this is a common problem. And if you don’t spend over 2000.00 on your Marshal amp do not depend on it. Any comments? I’m ready to go back to solid state to be honest.


----------



## Micky

Well, you didn't go into a lot of detail about it to begin with, did you buy it new? Where? When? What made you wanna change the bias? There are a lot of details you haven't told us. Not to say you should't have a good experience purchasing a Marshall...

But it is no reason to wanna dump all tube amps in favor of SS. Tube amps require a little more TLC than other amps, Marshall is not an exception. If you arent prepared for that, then quite honestly, maybe you are correct and tube amps really arent for you. I am not the one to say that though, you are.

Tell us the whole story. If you have a bad dealer, let others know. If there is something wrong that is out of your control, then let us know. I am not speaking for Marshall, but every new purchase has some sort of warranty, and if someone done you wrong, let them fix it. I live nowhere near any Marshall Authorized Service center, but if my amp required repair, I would still send it to one. Especially when it has a 5-year warranty...


----------



## Markuslee

The amp was bought last July from an online retailer. The amp sounded like the power tubes were going bad, and then at a gig it started making a loud hissing noise so I shut it down. I bought 4 new matched el34b for replacement. As I said were I live (near Tampa Florida) I know it’s hard to believe but there are just no shops to take it to that are authorized Marshal repair centers that you can trust, (IE: horror stories beyond belief from the ones that are). It is covered if it’s not the tubes, but as there are no Marshal repair shops that are worth even trying around here I have little choice but to take it to someone who can fix the amp, but is not happy about working on one of these “new”, Marshals.


----------



## wangchung

Micky said:


> Hey Wang - It was still good while it lasted... Too bad you got a couple duds.
> 
> Mine is still going strong after a year or so, must be I got a good one. I have pushed it hard, as well as babied it at times, but she still rocks.
> 
> Anyway, what I wanted to say was that I think the time and effort you put into your was really kind of neat for everyone else. The info you have posted is invaluable, and even though you have moved on the fact remains that you did great while you had it.
> 
> I think we are all looking forward to your next project!



Thanks Micky. I did get some killer tones from the amp, it just wouldn't hold them. The problems were similar to ones I've heard of with the 900's.
I hope corporate sorts them out and keeps producing them and it realises
it's intent and potential. I just read the post from the gentelman about
his (S)OL reading on his meter while trying to bias his new power tubes.
I rest my case.
It was far from a total loss in my case though, I was made aware of the
ability of power tube biasing to fine tune gain characteristics and output.
Rock on Micky. I'm off to pick the brain trust over at the DSL50/100 forum.


----------



## solarburn

Let's have some fun with this scatter brained clip I did...sober.LOL Sorry about the turds.

Anyways...guess what channel voicing I used and whether I'm going straight in or boosting with a pedal. I am toggling between neck and bridge pups and yes that is delay in the loop. Only changes I've made to the amp is an RFT in V2 and 34L's in the power section.


----------



## Dizzyg12

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Let's have some fun with this scatter brained clip I did...sober.LOL Sorry about the turds.
> 
> Anyways...guess what channel voicing I used and whether I'm going straight in or boosting with a pedal. I am toggling between neck and bridge pups and yes that is delay in the loop. Only changes I've made to the amp is an RFT in V2 and 34L's in the power section.
> 
> DSL40C - YouTube



I'd say green crunch, boosted.


----------



## lordquilton

The tone of the upper mids suggest a red channel to me. Not warm/soft enough for green channel. I know you have been favoring red 2, so I'm gonna take the chance you're trying to fool us up and say red 1, no boost.


----------



## solarburn

I'll wait for a couple more guesses and if none come I'll let the cat out of the bag.


----------



## saxon68

Ch 1 clean with ever so slight boost?


----------



## solarburn

Alright guys Dizzyg got it right from the start. Crunch channel boosted with my Rook Overdrive.

I haven't used my Badmonkey pedal forever so I think I'll see what I can get out of it in front of the crunch voicing.


----------



## solarburn

saxon68 said:


> Ch 1 clean with ever so slight boost?



There's a clean channel?


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Alright guys Dizzyg got it right from the start. Crunch channel boosted with my Rook Overdrive.
> 
> I haven't used my Badmonkey pedal forever so I think I'll see what I can get out of it in front of the crunch voicing.



I use my Badmonkey as a boost for the most part. I don't have anything to compare it against, but I think the results are great. Let us know what you think.


----------



## Dizzyg12

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Alright guys Dizzyg got it right from the start. Crunch channel boosted with my Rook Overdrive.
> 
> I haven't used my Badmonkey pedal forever so I think I'll see what I can get out of it in front of the crunch voicing.



Ha! What do I win? Fun game though!


----------



## Jethro Rocker

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Alright guys Dizzyg got it right from the start. Crunch channel boosted with my Rook Overdrive.
> 
> I haven't used my Badmonkey pedal forever so I think I'll see what I can get out of it in front of the crunch voicing.


I use the bad monkey in front to boost as the crunch channel isn't crunchy enough for me. It works very well, really pushes it, works for OD1 with gain low so less pedal hopping.


----------



## solarburn

I played around on it awhile ago. Still a great boost pedal. I think this one was built for the DSL's crunch voice. I use to use it on my DSL50 same way. Proud to be part of the Badmonkey Clan.LOL


----------



## solarburn

Dizzyg12 said:


> Ha! What do I win? Fun game though!



I sent some of my favorite strippers over to your place. Now if you're married you're gonna have sum splain'n to do...

I'll be doing some more and I actually have something in mind for the guy who gets it right first.


----------



## Coronado

Friday I was having kind of a rough day at work, came home and found the Sweetwater box in my office! I have to say, is there any better feeling than coming home to some new speakers?

I put the new V30 in the DSL over the weekend. If you remember, my DSl40 was doing that strange hum on the clean channel. The amp had already been at the shop for 2 weeks and my power and preamp tubes have all been replaced and that didnt fix it. I put the new speaker in, closed up the back of the amp, plugged it in, and that was the problem! It was the speaker - the stock speaker must have been damaged somehow. I dont see any physical damage to it, but there is no doubt that the speaker was the culprit giving me the trouble. 

I was so happy with the sound of that new speaker. The cleans are just so different. I played it low volume for a little while, and then slowly put some time in over the weekend to start the breakin process. I am going to enjoy this speaker. The amp has never sounded better!!

The stock speaker only has a few months on it and now I think the stock power tubes were fine since that didnt fix the initial problem. Not that anyone is dying for a stock DSL40 speaker or stock power tubes, but if anyone needs/wants them, I'd be happy to give them away to a fellow MF brother. I'll even take care of the shipping cost. Let me know if this speaker or power tubes can help in some way and I'll ship the speaker and/or tubes to you.

As always, thanks for all the much appreciated help my friends!


----------



## Micky

Offer them up here:

http://www.marshallforum.com/backstage/55546-official-marshall-forum-pay-forward-thread.html


----------



## solarburn

Coronado said:


> Friday I was having kind of a rough day at work, came home and found the Sweetwater box in my office! I have to say, is there any better feeling than coming home to some new speakers?
> 
> I put the new V30 in the DSL over the weekend. If you remember, my DSl40 was doing that strange hum on the clean channel. The amp had already been at the shop for 2 weeks and my power and preamp tubes have all been replaced and that didnt fix it. I put the new speaker in, closed up the back of the amp, plugged it in, and that was the problem! It was the speaker - the stock speaker must have been damaged somehow. I dont see any physical damage to it, but there is no doubt that the speaker was the culprit giving me the trouble.
> 
> I was so happy with the sound of that new speaker. The cleans are just so different. I played it low volume for a little while, and then slowly put some time in over the weekend to start the breakin process. I am going to enjoy this speaker. The amp has never sounded better!!
> 
> The stock speaker only has a few months on it and now I think the stock power tubes were fine since that didnt fix the initial problem. Not that anyone is dying for a stock DSL40 speaker or stock power tubes, but if anyone needs/wants them, I'd be happy to give them away to a fellow MF brother. I'll even take care of the shipping cost. Let me know if this speaker or power tubes can help in some way and I'll ship the speaker and/or tubes to you.
> 
> As always, thanks for all the much appreciated help my friends!



Good news then. Always a good feeling to get the problem fixed with these amps. Way to work through it.

So after you get to playing for a few days give us a comparison review to the 70/80. I have been curious how the V30 would sound. I actually like them with a lot of amps clean and saturated. Usually leads sing through these.


----------



## solarburn

Do yourself a favor buy one of these and put it in V1. V2 is an RFT. I still have 3&4 stock. Anyways I just got this put in last night. Pretty damn nice results. I'll use 2 words to describe the crunchiness and then I won't bore you...warm/juicy.

Ruby 12AX7AC7 HG+ - 12AX7 / ECC83 / 7025 - Preamp Tubes


----------



## Micky

I still can't believe it was the speaker causing the hum...


----------



## Penguinchit

I hate this amp. Before I got it, I had a Superchamp xd. Spent a few years trying to find that tone I was looking for. Although it's a great amp, I never found the sound and eventually started playing more Xbox. Then, I bought the Marshall. Right out of the box, it has the tone. Now, I find myself being drawn away from Call of Duty, Plants vs. Zombies and Lego Avengers so I can play. It's making me want to play more guitar and less video games. What is this world coming to?!?


----------



## Micky

Penguinchit said:


> I hate this amp. Before I got it, I had a Superchamp xd. Spent a few years trying to find that tone I was looking for. Although it's a great amp, I never found the sound and eventually started playing more Xbox. Then, I bought the Marshall. Right out of the box, it has the tone. Now, I find myself being drawn away from Call of Duty, Plants vs. Zombies and Lego Avengers so I can play. It's making me want to play more guitar and less video games. What is this world coming to?!?



Yup that is the way this shit works. I hate it too sometimes. It makes me wanna play it until my fingers hurt. Then I have to take a day off or so.

I hate Lego Avengers too...


----------



## Penguinchit

Avengers is okay, but seems very limited.

You know, I've also noticed that I prefer the sound of the amp when it's on a stand, instead of sitting on the floor, whereas the Fender sounded better down low.


----------



## Micky

In all reality, I love the sound on top of another cab!
Sounds awesome on top of a 4X12, I even have a 15" cab with a horn it sounds great thru! I have been searching for the right 2X12 though, and haven't come up with anything yet.

All my Fenders sounded great tilted back.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Y9VmfKcOYc[/ame]


----------



## Coronado

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Good news then. Always a good feeling to get the problem fixed with these amps. Way to work through it.
> 
> So after you get to playing for a few days give us a comparison review to the 70/80. I have been curious how the V30 would sound. I actually like them with a lot of amps clean and saturated. Usually leads sing through these.


 
You are so right! I really didn’t think the new speaker was going to fix the problem with that hum/buzzing sound. I thought that since it wasn’t the tubes, it was most likely going to be something a little trickier to fix. I had to call the wife in to listen to make sure I wasn’t nuts! 

I actually have some video clips of my playing on both the clean channel and with some gain on some song ideas I had (I think Son Volt gave me that idea around a year ago - use your phone to record the video of some song ideas you have). I may be a little embarrassed by some of my creations, and perhaps by some of the goofy expressions I make when testing out new ideas, but I'll still try and muster up the confidence to post them so you can hear the difference between the old Seventy 80 and the new V30. I may even have some clips to contrast between the amp with the stock preamp and power tubes, and then with all new JJs throughout the amp. Also some videos with new tubes and old/new speakers. 

I have been slowly breaking the speaker in per the recommendations on the Celestion website. My first impression is how great it sounds clean. This is most likely due to how bad the amp sounded with that very annoying (and somewhat loud) hum from the speaker. You can tell the speaker is new and needs some playing time, but boy does it sound clean. I think the speaker is a tad bright right now being only having a couple hours on it, so I have been using a bit less presence and treble, and using my Les Paul with the Alnico Pro 2s, which are a bit smoother. Once I get a little more time on the new speaker (thinking by this weekend), I'll take another clip playing the same songs as with the Seventy 80 to contrast the 2. I may even find the stones to try and do the C19 mod this weekend?


----------



## Coronado

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Do yourself a favor buy one of these and put it in V1. V2 is an RFT. I still have 3&4 stock. Anyways I just got this put in last night. Pretty damn nice results. I'll use 2 words to describe the crunchiness and then I won't bore you...warm/juicy.
> 
> Ruby 12AX7AC7 HG+ - 12AX7 / ECC83 / 7025 - Preamp Tubes


 

Just now ordered the 12AX7AC7 for my V1! I got the HG and other options as well. I have 4 new JJs, so V2, 3,and 4 will still have the JJs. 

I still need a v1 for my JCM800 (as well as a V2 for the DSL40 and JCM800). I know earlier in the thread there were recommendations for the other preamp spots (I need to go back through and find what those recommendations were). Also, I dig Dougs Tubes, but Ill reach out to Marty for the other 4 or 5. New tube should be here in 2-3 days!


----------



## Coronado

Micky said:


> I still can't believe it was the speaker causing the hum...


 
I thought the same thing. I was convinced it was the tubes. Once the tech put the new tubes in, I brought it home, fired it up on the clean channel, and there was that dang hum sound again. I just figured it was going to be something worse. I really didn’t think the new speaker would fix the problem. I have some old clips of me playing on the clean channel where I'm pretty sure you will be able to hear the fuzzy hum sound. I’ve done some clean recording with my Studio One and SM57 where I know you should be able to hear that hum as well. I want to make a quick clip with the new V30 so you can contrast the difference. Its a shame that the Seventy 80 is damaged. Its only a few months old. Should the crack/tear be visible? I cant seem to see anything wrong with the damaged speaker.


----------



## Micky

Check the 'spider' underneath the cone and around the voice coil. It may have separated or torn. Also check the cone to see that it is moving smoothly and not scraping...

My 70/80 sounds great in my '77 Princeton Reverb, I can't believe what a difference!
I think I still might gram another Vet30 to try in the 40c, I love it in the DSL5c!


----------



## Coronado

Micky said:


> Check the 'spider' underneath the cone and around the voice coil. It may have separated or torn. Also check the cone to see that it is moving smoothly and not scraping...
> 
> My 70/80 sounds great in my '77 Princeton Reverb, I can't believe what a difference!
> I think I still might gram another Vet30 to try in the 40c, I love it in the DSL5c!


 
Thanks Micky, I'll take a look and see if I can find the culprit. I have a Fender Pro Junior - wonder if I can test the speaker in that and see if it makes that loud buzz/hum in that amp?


----------



## Micky

Coronado said:


> Thanks Micky, I'll take a look and see if I can find the culprit. I have a Fender Pro Junior - wonder if I can test the speaker in that and see if it makes that loud buzz/hum in that amp?



If you can hook it up, play thru it and inspect it all at the same time, you may be able to figure it out!

Me? I can barely walk and breathe at the same time...


----------



## solarburn

Coronado said:


> You are so right! I really didn’t think the new speaker was going to fix the problem with that hum/buzzing sound. I thought that since it wasn’t the tubes, it was most likely going to be something a little trickier to fix. I had to call the wife in to listen to make sure I wasn’t nuts!
> 
> I actually have some video clips of my playing on both the clean channel and with some gain on some song ideas I had (I think Son Volt gave me that idea around a year ago - use your phone to record the video of some song ideas you have). I may be a little embarrassed by some of my creations, and perhaps by some of the goofy expressions I make when testing out new ideas, but I'll still try and muster up the confidence to post them so you can hear the difference between the old Seventy 80 and the new V30. I may even have some clips to contrast between the amp with the stock preamp and power tubes, and then with all new JJs throughout the amp. Also some videos with new tubes and old/new speakers.
> 
> I have been slowly breaking the speaker in per the recommendations on the Celestion website. My first impression is how great it sounds clean. This is most likely due to how bad the amp sounded with that very annoying (and somewhat loud) hum from the speaker. You can tell the speaker is new and needs some playing time, but boy does it sound clean. I think the speaker is a tad bright right now being only having a couple hours on it, so I have been using a bit less presence and treble, and using my Les Paul with the Alnico Pro 2s, which are a bit smoother. Once I get a little more time on the new speaker (thinking by this weekend), I'll take another clip playing the same songs as with the Seventy 80 to contrast the 2. I may even find the stones to try and do the C19 mod this weekend?



I always liked how a V30 sounds with cleans. Really good and I had H30's, Veteran 30, K100's and T75's to compare to. Sometimes they can sound a bit toppy with the high mids but in a mix is where the frequencies of this speaker shine.

It will be bright for some time. Break it in and it will ease up and sing. The Veteran 30 is a less toppy speaker...smoother. Smoother always sounds better at home. I like it but have never tried it playing out so I don't know how well it does in a mix. The V30 is always up front. Me I'm mostly a GB guy. Really goes good for classic rock but I love the cleans on the V30. Clear with solid lows, mids and highs and hold together at high volumes. Especially in a 412. I prefer 412 cabs over anything. My ears just love the fullness.

Don't worry about clips. I put mine out there turds and all. I just don't care about imperfections. I'm more interested in hearing the tones and talking about the gear we are trying to dial in. What we find good and bad. Would love to hear your comparisons with this amp/speakers.


----------



## solarburn

Coronado said:


> Just now ordered the 12AX7AC7 for my V1! I got the HG and other options as well. I have 4 new JJs, so V2, 3,and 4 will still have the JJs.
> 
> I still need a v1 for my JCM800 (as well as a V2 for the DSL40 and JCM800). I know earlier in the thread there were recommendations for the other preamp spots (I need to go back through and find what those recommendations were). Also, I dig Dougs Tubes, but Ill reach out to Marty for the other 4 or 5. New tube should be here in 2-3 days!



I first bought the Ac5+ and put it in V2 and found it took away the classic out of my rock tone and it made it more modern. Lows and highs screwed up the meat in the mids I prefer with the RFT. Also sounded like volume increased. I never did put it in V1 to see how it did there. I will later. I actually meant to buy the AC7+ but foo barred. I did a lot of rolling with my NOS tubes and what sounded great in my DSL50 is not panning out in the DSL40. 

Up until now I liked the stock V1 preamp tube over my high dollar ones. I always tune V1&V2 up first. Then I fill in the last slots. The AC7+ was a solid buy cause it sounds good and makes my playing a little more bouncy. Responsiveness seems better. Most of all it doesn't take away the meaty mids of V2's RFT.


----------



## Duffy49

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Do yourself a favor buy one of these and put it in V1. V2 is an RFT. I still have 3&4 stock. Anyways I just got this put in last night. Pretty damn nice results. I'll use 2 words to describe the crunchiness and then I won't bore you...warm/juicy.
> 
> Ruby 12AX7AC7 HG+ - 12AX7 / ECC83 / 7025 - Preamp Tubes



Did you get the (+2) option or the plain HG+?


----------



## solarburn

Plain HG+.


----------



## Duffy49

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Plain HG+.



Thanks man. I appreciate that.

His page, however says that the tube may be discontinued or low on stock.

My DSL40c is stock. I bought an Avatar vintage two twelve cab new, with two Swamp Thang Eminence speakers. It sounds great. It is hooked up to my DSL100H and sounds super great cranked.

I'm still thinking about a speaker for the DSL40c. I'll probably not get a V30 because it may be too bright for me, so I will have to think about things. Today I looked at an Eminence Commonwealth - a large magnet high sensitivity speaker. Plus the Legend Eminence EL?12 is supposed to be something like an Electrovoice EML-12. One of these might be decent, especially the Commonwealth because it might not be too bright but there are no sound files for it that I could find.

Speaker advice?


----------



## Micky

I have an Eminence Texas Heat in mine, very similar to the Swamp Thang. It brought back the thump as well as taming the mids and highs.

I bought a WGS Vet30 in hopes of installing that, but I like it so much in the DSL5c that I might have to buy another!

Anyway, I am certain you will get plenty of opinions here, but the bottom line is that you will need to find one that sounds good to YOU, and it sometimes is almost impossible unless you have the extra cash to try every speaker you come across...


----------



## solarburn

There are 2 I want to use in mine. The reasoning is to tame some of the brightness on Lead 1. I pretty much got Lead 2 tamed at a low gain setting. Crunch is decent too. Plus due to what I play mostly. I don't need to cover modern high gain tones. If I did my speaker choice would be different.

They are the G1265 and the Creamback. To start out with hehe.

Lots of good choices out there. Mine are specific for what I want to adjust in the amp and what I play.


----------



## solarburn

Duffy49 said:


> Thanks man. I appreciate that.
> 
> His page, however says that the tube may be discontinued or low on stock



Also called Preferred Series or Tad 7025's so if Doug runs out of the AC7's there are other places like the Tube Store or Tube Depot...


----------



## Micky

Tube Depot is my preferred supplier...


----------



## Coronado

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I first bought the Ac5+ and put it in V2 and found it took away the classic out of my rock tone and it made it more modern. Lows and highs screwed up the meat in the mids I prefer with the RFT. Also sounded like volume increased. I never did put it in V1 to see how it did there. I will later. I actually meant to buy the AC7+ but foo barred. I did a lot of rolling with my NOS tubes and what sounded great in my DSL50 is not panning out in the DSL40.
> 
> Up until now I liked the stock V1 preamp tube over my high dollar ones. I always tune V1&V2 up first. Then I fill in the last slots. The AC7+ was a solid buy cause it sounds good and makes my playing a little more bouncy. Responsiveness seems better. Most of all it doesn't take away the meaty mids of V2's RFT.


 
Hey brother, thanks for all the great advice! I went to pick up one of those RFTs and was surprised that they are a bit more in price than the v1 Ruby. This RFT must be a pretty awesome tube! I was surprised when I read up on it a bit that from what I gathered, it is a bit darker and heavier than I would have guessed. I believe Dougs Tubes was kind of comparing it to a Mesa? A couple reviews I read on the RFT, people put it in V1 and loved it! I'm thinking with the Ruby and the RFT, you really cant go wrong. I'm really looking forward to swapping my Ruby and RFT around in V1/V2 spots! That will still leave my JJs in spots 3 and 4. 

Just a bit off topic (my apologies), Sam Ash has this Blackstar cab with a 12" speaker. They actually use a Seventy 80 as well in it. The cab has some cosmetic scratches and stuff, but its on sale (new) for $150 bucks. I'm thinking about buying this cab and putting a creamback in it, so I can swap between the V30 and the Creamback. The GC here in Plano Texas has a JVM1 on sale and thought I'd like to run it through that Blackstar cab with a creamback in it (or my 412 with 2 V30s and 2 75s). I've been looking at the JVM1 for weeks now and just cant seem to make up my dang mind...  Thanks again SolarBurn!


----------



## Penguinchit

Question for you guys: 

I'd like to install the side handles like Micky posted on the first page. Marshall told me that it would void the warranty. So, my logic tells me that Marshall would rather pay for a damaged amp if the two small screws on the top handle pull out because they're too small or the cabinet wood fails because the handle hardware setup is too small for the weight of the combo. 

I emailed and asked if that kind of failure is covered by my warranty and when I hear back, I'll post the response. But my question is, is it worth doing the side handles now or wait until the warranty expires? I suppose it's a reliability question. Can I void the warranty and not worry? Tough call because it's electronics and who knows when those will fail.


----------



## MarshallDog

Penguinchit said:


> Question for you guys:
> 
> I'd like to install the side handles like Micky posted on the first page. Marshall told me that it would void the warranty. So, my logic tells me that Marshall would rather pay for a damaged amp if the two small screws on the top handle pull out because they're too small or the cabinet wood fails because the handle hardware setup is too small for the weight of the combo.
> 
> I emailed and asked if that kind of failure is covered by my warranty and when I hear back, I'll post the response. But my question is, is it worth doing the side handles now or wait until the warranty expires? I suppose it's a reliability question. Can I void the warranty and not worry? Tough call because it's electronics and who knows when those will fail.



I always do what I want to a new amp even if it voids the warranty. Personally, I can't wait years for the warranty to expire and life is too short. Now if it was a 10K plus item, that might be a different story but for a 700.00 amp...plus it you have a good amp tech he should and better work with you to cover you if something should go wrong. Really, like changing tubes, knobs, handles, etc can affect the electronics, its just another way for mfg's to try to get out of covering warranty items.


----------



## Micky

I think back a couple years when I purchased a new laptop.

I had a better processor for it in my spare parts. The day I got the laptop ($1500 Dell Latitude) I had the brand new laptop taken apart, 4 layers deep, replacing the processor BEFORE I EVEN FIRED IT UP for the first time. 

OK, so you ask, why would any normal person put a $600 processor into a new laptop before even trying it out? Any NORMAL person wouldn't.

And that is the point of my story. If you are qualified to make changes, and are willing to accept the consequences of your actions, then by all means, let no one stop you.

But on the other hand, if you are an idiot consumer that isn't too handy, and doesn't quite understand the ramifications of their actions, and has no clue or business modifying or repairing anything, then NO. Don't do it.

Marshall may refuse to service the unit under warranty, but you have specific legal rights. Will they go to court? Probably not. But then again, are you gonna spend 10K-20K to take them to court and force them to repair the unit? Probably not.

Again the moral of the story - A normal person wouldn't void the warranty.


----------



## Penguinchit

Thanks guys. It just sucks because even though I'd like to stay covered, installing those handles would be a proactive approach to making the amp more reliable.

And then again, if something fails, I do electronics work so how complicated can an amp really be?


----------



## Pasloade74

Pasloade74 said:


> Ok, perhaps I'm spending too much time listening and trying to dial this amp in rather than just playing. But whenever I'm playing at home at a low volume either on the crunch channel or on the clean using an overdrive pedal I hear an unusual clipping sound while strumming. It almost seems like a blown speaker but I know the speaker is fine. I even hear the clipping when I plug straight in to the extension cab.The clipping seems a bit louder then the actual pedal or preamp tubes. Almost like its coming from somewhere on the amp. Its weird.
> 
> Like I said I've used 2 different speakers, I've swapped preamp tubes, swapped guitars and even tightened up all the screws around the perimeter of the baffle. I only hear it at low volumes and it goes away when playing totally clean.
> 
> Does anyone have any idea where this sound might be coming from. Thanks



Ok, so today I decided to try out a used eq pedal at guitar center. Lucky for me they had a demo DSL40c. After sitting there for a few minutes I noticed how much nicer this amp sounded than mine. Even with a V30 and new jjs this thing sounded so much better. The classic crunch channel actually had some "crunch" to it instead of muffeled distortion. So right away I'm totally irritated.

Got home and pulled out the chassis and looked everything over. Tubes and speaker swap. Couldn't find the problem. The last thing I'll do when I have more time is pull the PCB board and look for some cold solder joints. Perhaps I'll get lucky and find one or two. 

I bought this amp to replace my DSL 401 along with all its problems. Now I'm beginning to think I made a mistake.


----------



## CarlosPrex

Penguinchit said:


> Question for you guys:
> 
> I'd like to install the side handles like Micky posted on the first page.
> 
> is it worth doing the side handles now or wait until the warranty expires?



With a little pushing directions from Mickey 
I did it with mine.

It´s so simple and it´s so great having those side handles installed.


----------



## solarburn

No doubt. This thing gets heavy moving it from room to living room. Those side handles would be nice especially on a bad back like mine. It's not so much the weight but coupled with the size that makes it difficult.


----------



## Jcalla

Hi, I have a question concerning my DSL40C: when I bought it it came with a cable plugged in the output and since I wasn't aware of the existence of speaker cables and their differences, I didn't give it any attention. Now that I do know what each cable is for and why they shouldn't be mixed up, I'm worried that it might be an instrument cable. Did anyone get a thin black low quality looking speaker cable with their DSL40C? Should I be worried about this?? Thanks for being patient as I just don't want my new amp to get damaged…


----------



## solarburn

Jcalla said:


> Hi, I have a question concerning my DSL40C: when I bought it it came with a cable plugged in the output and since I wasn't aware of the existence of speaker cables and their differences, I didn't give it any attention. Now that I do know what each cable is for and why they shouldn't be mixed up, I'm worried that it might be an instrument cable. Did anyone get a thin black low quality looking speaker cable with their DSL40C? Should I be worried about this?? Thanks for being patient as I just don't want my new amp to get damaged…



Do you mean there was a cable plugged into a speaker jack in the back? There should have been one plugged into the 16 ohm jack and it runs to the speaker. It can't be plugged into the instrument jack in the front of the amp. Impossible as it won't reach it.

Was there some other cable cable plugged into the back speaker jack?


----------



## Jcalla

What I meant to say is, a low quality looking cable came plugged into the 16ohm jack, I was wondering if it might be an instrument cable instead of a speaker cable and was worried it would damage my amp. I also found some DSL40C pictures that Dirty Steve uploaded on the first page of the thread showed the exact same cable I have on my DSL40C (just the cable, I don't know what mine looks like from the inside or how the cable is attached to the speaker).


----------



## solarburn

Jcalla said:


> What I meant to say is, a low quality looking cable came plugged into the 16ohm jack, I was wondering if it might be an instrument cable instead of a speaker cable and was worried it would damage my amp. I also found some DSL40C pictures that Dirty Steve uploaded on the first page of the thread showed the exact same cable I have on my DSL40C (just the cable, I don't know what mine looks like from the inside or how the cable is attached to the speaker).




That's the speaker cable. Its fine even though it looks fragile or weak. Just don't yank on it. You can unscrew the back of the amp and see how it's hooked up. Don't worry otherwise.


----------



## Jcalla

Alright, thanks a lot!


----------



## Duffy49

My 40c is stock and I'm going to try to make sure that I put a real good tube in V1 when I switch it out. I don't want to start getting a lot of additional noise. I like the amp to be reasonably quiet. I can live with the normal stock hiss but wouldn't want to increase that sound.


----------



## Skylarkpilot

Hi All,
Installed my new TAD34STR tubes about three weeks ago and biased to 38. After reading entries here about burn in I checked the bias again yesterday (about 28 hours of playing use and maybe six more on stand-by) and found one had crept up to 39 and the other to 42. 
My questions are :
1 How much bias creep do you guys think is normal after fitting new tubes ?
2 How often do you think it's best to check them ?
Thanks......


----------



## Micky

+/- 5% is normal.

I check mine only when I have the chassis out or am changing power tubes.
I biased my TAD's at 40 and haven't checked them in 6 months. Sounds fine.


----------



## Penguinchit

CarlosPrex said:


> With a little pushing directions from Mickey
> I did it with mine.
> 
> It´s so simple and it´s so great having those side handles installed.



I'm going over to Micky's house.



solarburnDSL50 said:


> No doubt. This thing gets heavy moving it from room to living room. Those side handles would be nice especially on a bad back like mine. It's not so much the weight but coupled with the size that makes it difficult.



No kidding! I take mine from the basement, up some stairs, down the deck, into the back seat of the car, up the stairs to church, down the aisle and into the equipment closet. Then, after practice, it's all reversed. It sucks. Who needs a weight set when you have the DSL40C?


----------



## solarburn

Skylarkpilot said:


> Hi All,
> Installed my new TAD34STR tubes about three weeks ago and biased to 38. After reading entries here about burn in I checked the bias again yesterday (about 28 hours of playing use and maybe six more on stand-by) and found one had crept up to 39 and the other to 42.
> My questions are :
> 1 How much bias creep do you guys think is normal after fitting new tubes ?
> 2 How often do you think it's best to check them ?
> Thanks......



I like to check mine weekly if they drift. Monthly for sure. That's not much creeping on yours. Nothing that would alarm me. Just bias up again. If I suspect my are drifting or going to be an issue I would check bias more often to get a read on how they are doing. Technically they could be 8mv apart and still be useable to me although I like them matched closer.


----------



## Duffy49

Micky said:


> If you can hook it up, play thru it and inspect it all at the same time, you may be able to figure it out!
> 
> Me? I can barely walk and breathe at the same time...



It is possible if you just hook up the Seventy/80 and sit it on the floor or lean it somewhere good, that you will be able to test it without actually mounting it; at least for the buzz/fuzz tone that you were hearing.

The speaker could have been not tightened down well, or possibly it was not seated exactly right on the baffle, or some other actual mounting problem that caused a sympathetic resonating buzz. It might actually still be good.

I did exactly like Micky did and put my Seventy/80 in another amp and the amp now sounds "way" better. I use it in my drum room.

On the other hand I got a Crate Palamino V32 two twelve combo, brand new from Crate and one of the speakers had a big, like five inch long, tear in it. It sounded terrible. I salvaged that speaker using the Elmer's glue and half water mixture, and the dipping sheets of toilet paper in it and then carefully applying the lightly soaked toilet paper sheets over the rip in the cone. I applied several sheets of the glue covered toilet paper sheets on the cone and let them dry. This turned out to be a great solution and the speaker sounds great, believe it or not. It has been very durable as well. It takes some practice to get the toilet paper sheets just barely covered with the glue so that it doesn't disintegrate into "pulp". You want the sheets to maintain their formation so you can sheet them out over the rip. It works very well.

Good luck with that speaker. I wouldn't give up on it. It is actually a very good, inexpensive, Celestion speaker.


----------



## Coronado

Quick question - Is there a difference between 8ohms and 16ohms when it comes to V30s in the DSL40? I have both and wondered what the differences would be with both speakers. Is there a preference for this speaker?


----------



## Skylarkpilot

So now my Marshall warranty is officially not worth the paper it's written on as I've done the Choke mod. Un-soldering R111 and replacing it with the 40-18058 was actually easier than anticipated. 
I do believe it has made a difference to the sound, I can't quite put my finger on it but definitely nicer. Maybe after I've spent a couple of hours playing tomorrow I'll get a better idea.
Next step will be installing a Celestion G12H Classic Lead 80. It's on it's way......I suppose I could have just bought a more expensive amp but hey ho, I've got the 'modding bug'.
All your fault Micky 
And thanks Solarburn, I just re biased to 35 after fitting the choke. All sounding good just now.

Just for those that may be interested, I biased to 33 prior to fitting the choke just in case the numbers went up after fitting. In fact after fitting the choke I checked bias again and it came up at precisely 34 so very little difference to bias caused by the choke mod.


----------



## Micky

Coronado said:


> Quick question - Is there a difference between 8ohms and 16ohms when it comes to V30s in the DSL40? I have both and wondered what the differences would be with both speakers. Is there a preference for this speaker?



I think a big difference is the ability to use an external cab. Only possible with a 16-ohm internal speaker...

Sound/tone wise, not any that I could hear.

Some of the cork-sniffers (i.e. smarter people than I) will argue the 16-ohm output should be 'wider frequency' but I have yet to hear it...


----------



## Coronado

Micky said:


> I think a big difference is the ability to use an external cab. Only possible with a 16-ohm internal speaker...
> 
> Sound/tone wise, not any that I could hear.
> 
> Some of the cork-sniffers (i.e. smarter people than I) will argue the 16-ohm output should be 'wider frequency' but I have yet to hear it...


 
Thanks Micky! I think I screwed myself a bit here. I bought a V30 the other day online from Sweetwater and was in a hurry (I was at work). I thought I clicked on the 16ohm option, but apparently I didnt and I bought the 8ohm V30! The speaker doesnt say ohms on it, so like an idiot, I just installed it in my DSL40. Now I have the 8ohm V30 in there, but like a jackass, now I cant run it into an external cab. I'm usually so careful about these things - I really cant believe I screwed this up so bad. i do have another V30 16ohm, but I was planning to put that in my 4x12 to replace a speaker. Well, at least I'm glad there are no differences between the sound of the 8 and 16 ohms. 

Man I feel like a total dipshit!


----------



## Micky

No big deal. I run an 8-ohm Texas Heat in mine.
When I wanna run an external cab, I just unplug it.


----------



## solarburn

Skylarkpilot said:


> So now my Marshall warranty is officially not worth the paper it's written on as I've done the Choke mod. Un-soldering R111 and replacing it with the 40-18058 was actually easier than anticipated.
> I do believe it has made a difference to the sound, I can't quite put my finger on it but definitely nicer. Maybe after I've spent a couple of hours playing tomorrow I'll get a better idea.
> Next step will be installing a Celestion G12H Classic Lead 80. It's on it's way......I suppose I could have just bought a more expensive amp but hey ho, I've got the 'modding bug'.
> All your fault Micky
> And thanks Solarburn, I just re biased to 35 after fitting the choke. All sounding good just now.



Higher volume playing should sound and feel better with the choke added. The OT and choke will be something I do with mine when I'm ready and Classic Tone makes one for this amp.


----------



## Skylarkpilot

Just looking back through the thread....the Classic Tone OT for 50W got fitted by 'Dsmer', were there any observations re ease of wiring or changes that needed to be made ? I notice that the OT has a 4 ohm setting as well as 8 and 16. Can the 4 ohm just be left floating if not required ?
Dsmer, if you're out there did you manage any photos of the installation at all ?


----------



## oachs83

Quick speaker question. I have a tsl212c cabinet all stock. Its at 16 ohm and I believe the speakers are 8 ohm run in series making it 16 ohms if im correct? So if I wanted to replace the speaker on a DSL40C can I buy a creamback at 8 ohms and run it in the DSL? I want to keep it so I have everything 8 ohms so I can experiment mixing and matching the creamback, V30, and Heritage speakers.


----------



## Micky

Yes, you can run an 8-ohm speaker in the DSL40c.


----------



## oachs83

Thank You


----------



## MarshallDog

Skylarkpilot said:


> Just looking back through the thread....the Classic Tone OT for 50W got fitted by 'Dsmer', were there any observations re ease of wiring or changes that needed to be made ? I notice that the OT has a 4 ohm setting as well as 8 and 16. Can the 4 ohm just be left floating if not required ?
> Dsmer, if you're out there did you manage any photos of the installation at all ?



I would be interested in these answers also along with what type of tone change the OT made?


----------



## Skylarkpilot

Got my answer back from AmpParts, OT 40-18025 as fitted by Dsmer is just fine and the 4ohm wire, if not required, can simply be taped off.
The big 'BUT' is that you have to match the colours on the OT leads to those on a Marshall schematic. As I'm not great at reading schematics I'll pm Dsmer and see if he can shed some light.


----------



## Skylarkpilot

I don't know why I just did that....but I've ordered the Classic Tone 40-18025 OT from AmpParts. Kind of a shot in the dark as I've no idea how it will connect up. 
Hoping DSmer will come good with some info or maybe I'll get lucky with a schematic.....wink wink...come on Micky you know you want to !

Quick edit : thanks to info from Micky and DSmer it looks like I'm good to go. DSmer may be able to post some pics of his conversion and I shall photo the stages of mine. Just got to wait two weeks for delivery of the new OT.......


----------



## gibguy

Just fell in love with my 40C all over again! I've had this amp for about 7 months now playing a 2012 studio deluxe LP through it. Mainly play with pretty good distortion levels and if I wanted clean roll off the guitar volume which is very passable. Tried the clean channel a few times but I think the LP just doesn't sound all that great clean IMO, ok but nothing all that special. Last Monday took delivery of a MIM Strat and haven't got off the clean channel since. Very warm,articulate and just pleasing to the ears. Maybe its the tone pack I got from Marty. Have Mullard in V1. Raytheon BP in V2. Jan GE in V3 and Sylvania grey plate in V4. All I know is it is a blast playing clean through this amp!!!


----------



## Penguinchit

How much buzz is normal in this amp? My first 40C was dead quiet, but then it died after a couple hours of playing (turned out to be just a bad preamp tube). Swapped it out for the other one at GC (which was my first one, but the back was damaged in shipping) and there's more buzzing at the same settings as the first one. Is it just a tube thing? It's not a terrible buzzing, it's just a lot more noticeable than my first amp.


----------



## MarshallDog

My experience has been no noticeable buzzing at all. If your amp was damaged in shipping, maybe a tube or something else is damaged now as a result. I guess the only thing you can do is change out the tubes and see if that fixes it and if not, I would put the originals back in and return the amp. Just be careful not to mark up any of the screws or anything else it can be returned. Let us know how it goes.


----------



## solarburn

Penguinchit said:


> How much buzz is normal in this amp? My first 40C was dead quiet, but then it died after a couple hours of playing (turned out to be just a bad preamp tube). Swapped it out for the other one at GC (which was my first one, but the back was damaged in shipping) and there's more buzzing at the same settings as the first one. Is it just a tube thing? It's not a terrible buzzing, it's just a lot more noticeable than my first amp.



Check tubes. If you guys have phones record the buzzing or any noises and post the clips here. Easy to do if you have a YT account which is easy to start if you don't.


----------



## Penguinchit

Thanks Dog, that just might be my answer. I wonder if GC would let me go there and swap tubes to see if it's a tube thing. I'll see if I can post a vid. Maybe I'm just hearing gain noise or I'm just being too picky. Plus, I'm coming from a solid state Line 6 and a solid state preamp/tube power side Fender. But I swear the first one had no noise...


----------



## solarburn

I biased mine hotter this weekend and played it for the first time last night. Tone and feel is a bit warmer or looser but I got use to the tighter tone characteristics of a colder bias. I'll have to play it for a couple of days. Make my mind up if I like it better or not. It's at 36mv @ 460PV. I was at 34mv.


----------



## Micky

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I biased mine hotter this weekend and played it for the first time last night. Tone and feel is a bit warmer or looser but I got use to the tighter tone characteristics of a colder bias. I'll have to play it for a couple of days. Make my mind up if I like it better or not. It's at 36mv @ 460PV. I was at 34mv.



I bias mine at 40. Maybe that is why the reverb is a bit better?

You notice any difference with the reverb and hot/cold bias?


----------



## solarburn

Micky said:


> I bias mine at 40. Maybe that is why the reverb is a bit better?
> 
> You notice any difference with the reverb and hot/cold bias?



I'll test it later when I can play it. Usually I don't use it at all but we'll see if it makes any diff.

I was a bit surprised that I felt and heard a difference at 36mv but I did. Across Green & red channels. Yours is hot compared to mine. First I thought maybe the 34L's were just a tad stiff at 34mv that's why I went warmer. It definitely softened up and the low end increased. Now I'm not sure what I like better. I thought the mids sounded better at the cooler setting but the higher solo notes sound warmer. There are some trade offs happening. 

I'll get back to you on the reverb Mickey. I thought mine had pretty good strength when I first tested the reverb. The bias then was right around 36mv on the stock power tubes. I hadn't used it at the cooler setting so I will track it when I go colder which I'm sure I'm going too.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

oachs83 said:


> Quick speaker question. I have a tsl212c cabinet all stock. Its at 16 ohm and I believe the speakers are 8 ohm run in series making it 16 ohms if im correct? So if I wanted to replace the speaker on a DSL40C can I buy a creamback at 8 ohms and run it in the DSL? I want to keep it so I have everything 8 ohms so I can experiment mixing and matching the creamback, V30, and Heritage speakers.


You CAN but be aware you cannot go below 8 ohms so you CAN'T mix and match the cab WITH the internal, it must be disconnected to run the cab. If you wanna run cab PLUS internal, get a 16ohm Creamback. That is, if you decide on the DSL40C!


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

Jethro Rocker said:


> You CAN but be aware you cannot go below 8 ohms so you CAN'T mix and match the cab WITH the internal, it must be disconnected to run the cab. If you wanna run cab PLUS internal, get a 16ohm Creamback. That is, if you decide on the DSL40C!



Jethro, where did you get your Creamback from? Do Long and Mcquade carry them, because I can't find it on their website.

Thanks,

GWN


----------



## Coronado

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Do yourself a favor buy one of these and put it in V1. V2 is an RFT. I still have 3&4 stock. Anyways I just got this put in last night. Pretty damn nice results. I'll use 2 words to describe the crunchiness and then I won't bore you...warm/juicy.
> 
> Ruby 12AX7AC7 HG+ - 12AX7 / ECC83 / 7025 - Preamp Tubes


 
My new Ruby AC7HG+ came on Saturday. DAMN!!! You were right on the money with this tube! It really sounds amazing!! Here is the crazy part - I don’t know if its the new Ruby tube, or if the timing of how the new V30 is starting to break in, but I have been blown away by the way the amp sounds _*without*_ any pedals. I have a collection of OD pedals in my chain, and I always go back-and-forth between pedals depending upon what sound I'm looking for. I gotta tell ya, my foot has not touched a a pedal since that tube went in!! Amazing low growl (the floor was vibrating -that was new!). Power chords have just the right amount of gain, not too bright, but not too dull either. I'm a huge blues fan, and DAMN does this thing sound good now! I turn the clean gain low, add some Hall of fame reverb and MXR Carbon Copy delay, perhaps a little MXR super comp... That amp has been impressing the shit out of me. A whole new amp. I used to play my Fender for cleans - now I can’t get enough of the DSL40 for my clean stuff! I go back and forth with my Les Paul with Alnico 2 pro PUs and my stock Les Paul Traditional. I can’t tell which sound I like better - I love them both through this amp!

Thanks again guys for the great advice on how to make this amp really come to life! It’s even louder! Before, I could turn the volume down low enough so that I wouldn’t wake the wife. Now, I can’t get it turned down low enough (at zero volume the sound is still fairly loud! haha!). I turned the amp up to 4 yesterday and the frickin house was shaking. With that stupid hum/buzz finally gone, the busted speaker replaced with the V30, and the Ruby 12ax7ac7 HG+ in V1 (V2-V4 have JJs), new power tubes (JJ El34s), I have really seen a new amp. 

You guys have been really great and very helpful! Thanks so much! I've been trying to gather the old video clips of the amp when it had the stock speakers and stock tubes. Also working on making some new videos with the upgrades so you can hear the differences. Hopefully I will have that done this week and I'll get those posted ASAP. Please excuse the "*turds*" as my buddy SolarBurn put it! Most of these were just song ideas that I wanted to capture so I wouldn’t forget. 

Thanks!


----------



## Coronado

hey guys, I just read a post by DSMer and it looks like he has installed a new output transformer on his DSL40. I went to "Marstran" online to learn a bit more about how this will improve the DSL40, but still unsure as to how this will improve the sound. I'm quite green in this area (_this is way out of my tech acumen or ability_). What are the pros of adding a better/stronger OT?

As always, thanks so much for the help!


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Greatwhitenorth said:


> Jethro, where did you get your Creamback from? Do Long and Mcquade carry them, because I can't find it on their website.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> GWN


I don't have one I was just referring to oachs83. I put a V30 in mine, 16 ohm. Sorry for the confusion. Can't L&M get 'em? I thought they could get the whole line, they often do not put items on their website that they have in store. Saskatoon still has a JMD-1 100W head...


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

Jethro Rocker said:


> I don't have one I was just referring to oachs83. I put a V30 in mine, 16 ohm. Sorry for the confusion. Can't L&M get 'em? I thought they could get the whole line, they often do not put items on their website that they have in store. Saskatoon still has a JMD-1 100W head...



My mistake. I haven't asked at the store yet because I'm honestly having a hard time deciding if I want to change the speaker to a Creamback, a V30, or even keeping it stock. I'm getting great results with dirt pedals through the Green channel and I don't want to spend a ton if I'm not going to "Love" the results. Tube swapping however....


----------



## Jethro Rocker

I'm sure the 70/80 is fine when broken in, provided you like the results! I had a V30 in my old Peavey I was selling so figured might as well swap it out. Find an old Mullard for V1!!


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

Jethro Rocker said:


> I'm sure the 70/80 is fine when broken in, provided you like the results! I had a V30 in my old Peavey I was selling so figured might as well swap it out. Find an old Mullard for V1!!



I'll look into the Mullard. Thanks. 

On an unrelated topic, I was out at a show on the weekend and the lead guitarist was playing a Silver Jubilee 2558. All I want to know is why you even bothered getting a DSL? The amp seemed pretty killer to me.


----------



## solarburn

Coronado said:


> hey guys, I just read a post by DSMer and it looks like he has installed a new output transformer on his DSL40. I went to "Marstran" online to learn a bit more about how this will improve the DSL40, but still unsure as to how this will improve the sound. I'm quite green in this area (_this is way out of my tech acumen or ability_). What are the pros of adding a better/stronger OT?
> 
> As always, thanks so much for the help!



Feel. It will have more sustain and probably feedback quicker when holding notes...musical feedback not nasty over loaded feedback hehe. 

Possibly notice positive change in the bottom end but mostly the amp will increase responsiveness. Not all OT's are created equal. I did MM with my DSL50 and will go with another brand/build on this one. An upgrade in OT/choke can increase better power handling when cranking volume and playing long sets or intervals.


----------



## solarburn

Coronado said:


> My new Ruby AC7HG+ came on Saturday. DAMN!!! You were right on the money with this tube! It really sounds amazing!! Here is the crazy part - I don’t know if its the new Ruby tube, or if the timing of how the new V30 is starting to break in, but I have been blown away by the way the amp sounds _*without*_ any pedals. I have a collection of OD pedals in my chain, and I always go back-and-forth between pedals depending upon what sound I'm looking for. I gotta tell ya, my foot has not touched a a pedal since that tube went in!! Amazing low growl




So my ears aren't playing tricks on me...good to know!

I'm so glad that was a positive result for you. I know money gets tight for many and dialling in our amps can be spendy. It's very exciting when a fairly cheap investment...one tube...can make a solid impact for the better. Yay! I really noticed it in mine.

All your other tweaks are getting you there too. Way to go. This is a good amp.


----------



## solarburn

I went back to my 34mv bias and it tightened or cleared up compared to the warmer, looser saturation at 36mv. 

I liked how more bottom came through and rolling off guitar had a nice warm break up at the hotter bias. I may revisit it again. The cooler bias gives it more vintage feel/tone while the hotter wakes it up to a more hot rodded warmer saturation. Low volume playing sounds better with the cooler bias where the hotter sounds a bit blurred until enough volume is added. I have to admit I really liked roll off with the hotter bias.

I can see where a choke/OT could really help fight muddy or flabby tendencies at higher bias settings.


----------



## MarshallDog

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I went back to my 34mv bias and it tightened or cleared up compared to the warmer, looser saturation at 36mv.
> 
> I liked how more bottom came through and rolling off guitar had a nice warm break up at the hotter bias. I may revisit it again. The cooler bias gives it more vintage feel/tone while the hotter wakes it up to a more hot rodded warmer saturation. Low volume playing sounds better with the cooler bias where the hotter sounds a bit blurred until enough volume is added. I have to admit I really liked roll off with the hotter bias.
> 
> I can see where a choke/OT could really help fight muddy or flabby tendencies at higher bias settings.



I experienced the exact same thing with mine and love setting mine at 70%. I have the choke and am considering the OT upgrade.


----------



## flexcomunicacion

Hi guys. Idk if this is the correct thread to make my question but here it goes.

Im planing to buy a dsl 40 combo next month after a really long search. I play mostly on record studios and never had a tube amp before. I like to use lots of FX and now Im actually in the search for my own sound. Recently I got the guitar rig 5 software for that purpose. So, I wanted to know if anyone of you have tested this kind of software trough the FX loop (Or maybe a pedal board with amps simulator) and can tell me if this amp is good for that use. I wanted to buy a tube amp to give a lil warm to the digital emulations (correct me if Im wrong). Ty so much!

Gabriel from Argentina


----------



## lordquilton

flexcomunicacion said:


> Hi guys. Idk if this is the correct thread to make my question but here it goes.
> 
> Im planing to buy a dsl 40 combo next month after a really long search. I play mostly on record studios and never had a tube amp before. I like to use lots of FX and now Im actually in the search for my own sound. Recently I got the guitar rig 5 software for that purpose. So, I wanted to know if anyone of you have tested this kind of software trough the FX loop (Or maybe a pedal board with amps simulator) and can tell me if this amp is good for that use. I wanted to buy a tube amp to give a lil warm to the digital emulations (correct me if Im wrong). Ty so much!
> 
> Gabriel from Argentina



Hey Gabriel, welcome to the forum!
Just to be clear, do you just want to record into the computer from the combo's FX loop, or do you then want to want to send the Guitar Rig sounds back into the combo via the FX return?


----------



## flexcomunicacion

lordquilton said:


> Hey Gabriel, welcome to the forum!
> Just to be clear, do you just want to record into the computer from the combo's FX loop, or do you then want to want to send the Guitar Rig sounds back into the combo via the FX return?



Ty. This picture will show u what I want to do (mostly for record but also for live): 

Option 1 From guitar rig to only fx return






Option 2 guitar to the iput and guitar rig in the loop





After that, the mic will go to a sound card for record or to a PA for live.


----------



## lordquilton

Okay Gabriel, I tried both of those set ups. Most importantly, if you want to run Guitar Rig into the input of the amp, the input of your interface needs to be high impedance or have a Hi-Z switch. 
Also latency is unavoidable, but through my Roland Quad-Capture it was only just noticeable. 

I don't think the question is if the Marshall is a good amp for this. The question is if the DSL 40c sounds GOOD to YOU. If you want to run an amp simulation into a real amp, that kind of defeats the purpose for me!

On the other hand, if what you're trying to do is using Guitar Rig like a bunch of pedals, then yes it works good with a high impedance input on the interface. The amp sounds good to you, and you are just adding sauce to it if you know what I mean. Distortion, overdrive, eq and chorus sound better through this input, just like they would if you use real pedals.

Guitar Rig into the FX loop works great for reverb and delay. High or low impedance works fine here, low impedance sounded more natural to me.

Have fun!


----------



## flexcomunicacion

lordquilton said:


> Okay Gabriel, I tried both of those set ups. Most importantly, if you want to run Guitar Rig into the input of the amp, the input of your interface needs to be high impedance or have a Hi-Z switch.
> Also latency is unavoidable, but through my Roland Quad-Capture it was only just noticeable.
> 
> I don't think the question is if the Marshall is a good amp for this. The question is if the DSL 40c sounds GOOD to YOU. If you want to run an amp simulation into a real amp, that kind of defeats the purpose for me!
> 
> On the other hand, if what you're trying to do is using Guitar Rig like a bunch of pedals, then yes it works good with a high impedance input on the interface. The amp sounds good to you, and you are just adding sauce to it if you know what I mean. Distortion, overdrive, eq and chorus sound better through this input, just like they would if you use real pedals.
> 
> Guitar Rig into the FX loop works great for reverb and delay. High or low impedance works fine here, low impedance sounded more natural to me.
> 
> Have fun!



Ty so much Lord. Next week Ill have the chance to test it at music store with all my gear, but I think Im already buying it  After watch lots of videos and read a lot Im sure it won't disappoint me.


----------



## lordquilton

As you can see on this thread, some people get new ones that don't work too well. 
Especially in your part of the world, DO NOT leave the shop until you are completely happy with the amplifier. Take your time, even bring a friend with you.Turn it up to stage volume if you can. 

If it all works well, this is a great amp for the price.


----------



## flexcomunicacion

lordquilton said:


> As you can see on this thread, some people get new ones that don't work too well.
> Especially in your part of the world, DO NOT leave the shop until you are completely happy with the amplifier. Take your time, even bring a friend with you.Turn it up to stage volume if you can.
> 
> If it all works well, this is a great amp for the price.



Ohh ty for mention it. Hmmm what are the most common problems this amp could have?


----------



## solarburn

Funny finding here. Remember when I mentioned a few posts back about my loop causing hum when on...I could turn it off and the hum would go away only to return when I switched the loop on? Well my DSL50's loop use to induce a slight bit of hum when plugged in or used so I thought this to be the same on the DSL40.

Well 2 days back I had been switching cables testing them for an unrelated thing and the hum all of a sudden disappeared. Funny thing is the only thing I changed was unplug pedals and set my loop back again. I thought maybe a connection was bad or whatever. Also I had bumped my LC1200 tipping it back...

Well today when I powered up the amp the hum was back. I hadn't messed with anything but moved the amp back. So I checked all connections and went through everything. Hum still there unless I turn the loop off then it goes away. So while moving cables around in back of the amp I have my Tripplite voltage regulator/power conditioner sitting back there. I move it back and bam the hum goes away with it. So I move it closer and the hum increases to where it was. Move it and it goes away. Haha! No more hum now. Funny how when switching the loop off it would disappear too. It doesn't hum unless the loop is engaged and the LC1200 is right next to the amp.


----------



## lordquilton

"Ohh ty for mention it. Hmmm what are the most common problems this amp could have?"

You can Google any amp, especially in this price range, and see that they all have their share of problems. Tube amplifiers are probably more susceptible than solid state, maybe. I've had my DSL 40C about six months with no problems at all, and I play it every day. I'm sure there are plenty of people who own this amp who are like me, no problems. But they are complex devices that are mass produced, so occasionally things go wrong.

Just take your time, play with all the knobs and buttons and use your ears. Try to get a sound you like. Use the footswitch. Put the amp on stand by, try the half power switch on the back. Take it off stand by. Was there a loud pop?
Turn the channel volumes up to about 2 or 3. If something doesn't sound right like humming,buzzing, rattling, crackling or even if the amp doesn't sound "good" like it does on the videos you have seen- don't be afraid to ask the salesperson about it. There is a lot of gain on the red channel, so some hiss is normal there.

Don't sweat it Gabriel. I'm just saying these things to _maybe_ save you time and frustration in the long run, that's all.
And whether you buy the amp or not, we want to hear about it!


----------



## solarburn

Check this read out about the role of the Phase Inverter tube. It's not that long but informative. Think we've already posted it on the preamp thread if I remember right...

http://www.guitaramplifierblueprinting.com/files/Phaseinverter.pdf


----------



## saxon68

Also remember for every person who goes into a forum with problems there are many many more who have no issues. Unhappy people are louder than the pleased customers. I personally had one tube go bad, my dealer replaced for free and that was a year ago, no issues since, totally stock.


----------



## flexcomunicacion

Ty so much guys for your help. As soon as I make my move on the amp I will post it here. See you soon


----------



## Jws

In swapping out the 70/80 with a V30 the bottom right side mounting bolt wallered out the front board on the way out; now it just spins so the V30 is secured with only 3 versus the 4 bolts. And I was taking my time if you can believe that....any suggestions?


----------



## lordquilton

Jws said:


> In swapping out the 70/80 with a V30 the bottom right side mounting bolt wallered out the front board on the way out; now it just spins so the V30 is secured with only 3 versus the 4 bolts. And I was taking my time if you can believe that....any suggestions?



I haven't come across this expression "wallered" before, but when I put in the creamback one of the bolts spun uselessly. 
Took the speaker back out, the bolt tightens into a metal nut thing on the other side of the baffle board. 
The nut thing has spikes that had stopped grabbing the baffle board when I first unscrewed the bolt.
When I pulled the creamback out that nut thing came completely loose in the combo. Insert terrible cursing here.
So I screwed the bolt back in (without the speaker) while pushing down on the nut thing on the other side of the baffle. 
Screwed the bolt as tight as possible to make the nut thing bite the baffle board again. Unscrewed the bolt. 
Nut thing stayed in place. Re-installed the speaker. Sweet victory. 

IIRC, the problem bolt had an obvious amount of clear blue glue on the head compared to the others. Perhaps that was the quick fix they use at the factory,
rather than removing the speaker etc, etc as detailed above.


----------



## Jws

Lord---many thanks for the direction!! I will re- tackle this little issue with your good advice. As to the aforementioned "wallered", one must religiously partake of farm raised catfish , work in 99% humidity and and know the difference between Mississippi red clay and regular dirt to have an intimate knowledge of such descriptions  !!!!!


----------



## Luis Goi

flexcomunicacion said:


> Hi guys. Idk if this is the correct thread to make my question but here it goes.





flexcomunicacion said:


> Im planing to buy a dsl 40 combo next month after a really long search. I play mostly on record studios and never had a tube amp before. I like to use lots of FX and now Im actually in the search for my own sound. Recently I got the guitar rig 5 software for that purpose. So, I wanted to know if anyone of you have tested this kind of software trough the FX loop (Or maybe a pedal board with amps simulator) and can tell me if this amp is good for that use. I wanted to buy a tube amp to give a lil warm to the digital emulations (correct me if Im wrong). Ty so much!
> 
> Gabriel from Argentina



Helo Gabriel,

Take a look in this post
http://www.marshallforum.com/marshall-amps/52289-marshall-dsl40c-4.html#post1077122

It’s not exactly the same rig, but we are both trying to use a DSP through a tube amp.

In resume, I got good results plugging the DSP unit in front of the classic clean channel or in the loop return in order to use the DSP amp modeling. I couldn’t make the amp modeling sound well using the entire loop chain, I mean, plugging the guitar on the amp classic clean channel, the send in the DSP unit and the DSP unit in the return. This last form worked very well when using the DSP unit as an FX unit (chorus, delay and reverb).

I hope it can be useful for you. Let us know how your rig worked. I’m thinking in trying my iPad Amplitube in the retur and hear how it sounds.

Regards,


----------



## flexcomunicacion

Luis Goi said:


> Helo Gabriel,
> 
> Take a look in this post
> http://www.marshallforum.com/marshall-amps/52289-marshall-dsl40c-4.html#post1077122
> 
> It’s not exactly the same rig, but we are both trying to use a DSP through a tube amp.
> 
> In resume, I got good results plugging the DSP unit in front of the classic clean channel or in the loop return in order to use the DSP amp modeling. I couldn’t make the amp modeling sound well using the entire loop chain, I mean, plugging the guitar on the amp classic clean channel, the send in the DSP unit and the DSP unit in the return. This last form worked very well when using the DSP unit as an FX unit (chorus, delay and reverb).
> 
> I hope it can be useful for you. Let us know how your rig worked. I’m thinking in trying my iPad Amplitube in the retur and hear how it sounds.
> 
> Regards,



Ty Luis, I will check it.


----------



## solarburn

Alright I've got some nice NOS tubes to put in any amp and they sound great too. For the life of me I like the stock preamp tubes better. Especially now that the speaker is warming up. I do still have my RFT in V2. The AC7HG+ is still a great V1 though.

Anyways the DSL40C does a great Riot "Fire Down Under" disc tone(1981). Been playing with the CD. Can someone say FUN?! Love the volume at 3 to 4. Really fills out on solo notes hell yeah.


----------



## Jws

Lord- Perfect recommendation....worked like a charm! Thanks Again!


----------



## Pdiddy

I'm new to the forum, but been lurking...,I was a moderator on the old "Marshall Amp Forum" for years and this forum is GREAT!. I've been in a cover band for the last ten years, playing mostly 90's to new main stream alternative tunes. I have gigged two JCM2000 TSL's 100's most of years now and ole #1 with a MM tranny and choke finally bit the dust. My musican friends have a weekly open jam and I wanted a combo amp to use, as well as serve as a backup for my #2 TSL...so I bought a DSL40C combo and I think it kicks arss....played for the first time last week and it cut through all the other guitar players with ease....

I know my Marshall's and I am of the opinion that this little powerhouse has great tone, even right out of the box....now I know that it may need some break in time but this little "made in veitnam" or whereever the hell they put them together is a one of the best value's in tube amps on the market....I thought about many different options, but the DSL40C is a keeper for sure...!


----------



## solarburn

Pdiddy said:


> I'm new to the forum, but been lurking...,I was a moderator on the old "Marshall Amp Forum" for years and this forum is GREAT!. I've been in a cover band for the last ten years, playing mostly 90's to new main stream alternative tunes. I have gigged two JCM2000 TSL's 100's most of years now and ole #1 with a MM tranny and choke finally bit the dust. My musican friends have a weekly open jam and I wanted a combo amp to use, as well as serve as a backup for my #2 TSL...so I bought a DSL40C combo and I think it kicks arss....played for the first time last week and it cut through all the other guitar players with ease....
> 
> I know my Marshall's and I am of the opinion that this little powerhouse has great tone, even right out of the box....now I know that it may need some break in time but this little "made in veitnam" or whereever the hell they put them together is a one of the best value's in tube amps on the market....I thought about many different options, but the DSL40C is a keeper for sure...!



Welcome to the forum! 

Great report. I found mine to sound great right out of the box too. Good to hear it did so well in a live setting.


----------



## jwoods986

I am in the market for an amp right now (see my Introduce Yourself thread) and tried a DSL40C, and a 15C, on Sunday. The 15 sounded good, but I just think the 40 is worth $100 more for the extra options and headroom. But I had a major problem with it. Each channel has it's own gain and volume, and these should be separate, right? Because what was happening was that I had the volume on the Ultra Gain channel fairly low, maybe on 2 at the most, and it sounded great. But then I couldn't hear the classic gain channel and had to turn the gain and volume up to 10 just to get some sound out of the channel (not exaggerating, I literally had both on 10). The guy from the store suggested turning up the volume on the ultra channel (like it's a master volume for the amp) and that worked. Until I switched back to the ultra channel and blasted everyone's ears for a second. 

So is this the way it works for this amp, or was there something wrong with the one I tried? I just was under the impression that the volume, and gain, for each channel was independent of the other. I just joined here and apologize if this has been discussed, but this thread is already up to 40 pages and didn't feel like looking for a needle in a haystack. Thanks!


----------



## solarburn

jwoods986 said:


> I am in the market for an amp right now (see my Introduce Yourself thread) and tried a DSL40C, and a 15C, on Sunday. The 15 sounded good, but I just think the 40 is worth $100 more for the extra options and headroom. But I had a major problem with it. Each channel has it's own gain and volume, and these should be separate, right? Because what was happening was that I had the volume on the Ultra Gain channel fairly low, maybe on 2 at the most, and it sounded great. But then I couldn't hear the classic gain channel and had to turn the gain and volume up to 10 just to get some sound out of the channel (not exaggerating, I literally had both on 10). The guy from the store suggested turning up the volume on the ultra channel (like it's a master volume for the amp) and that worked. Until I switched back to the ultra channel and blasted everyone's ears for a second.
> 
> So is this the way it works for this amp, or was there something wrong with the one I tried? I just was under the impression that the volume, and gain, for each channel was independent of the other. I just joined here and apologize if this has been discussed, but this thread is already up to 40 pages and didn't feel like looking for a needle in a haystack. Thanks!



WTF!Lol

Yeah that guy was a big help. NOT

You can get volumes to match. If you were cranking gain and volume to 10 on the green channel then something was messed up. No if ands or buts.

One clarification...you were switching channels right? Both channels don't play at the same time so you need to switch from one to the other with the foot switch or using the button on the front panel.


----------



## solarburn

Really the only negative I have is the shared EQ. Personally it's not a problem for me cause I know how to get around it...for rock and hard rock tones. Extreme settings can be a bit more tricky. That's why some do the C19 mod.

I like to run an OD pedal in front of the crunch voicing and roll off for cleans. I don't even use the amps dedicated clean voicing. So I can set the Crunch voicing where I need it and use Lead 2 gain set low for my other rock tones. Either can be boosted for leads using an EQ pedal or clean boost in the loop if playing out live. That's the way I do it when I play live. So I don't have a dedicated lead only channel. I just boost whatever channel/voicing I'm using. One can set the other channel for solos easily though.

I use mine as a 2 channel amp.


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## jwoods986

solarburnDSL50 said:


> WTF!Lol
> 
> Yeah that guy was a big help. NOT
> 
> You can get volumes to match. If you were cranking gain and volume to 10 on the green channel then something was messed up. No if ands or buts.
> 
> One clarification...you were switching channels right? Both channels don't play at the same time so you need to switch from one to the other with the foot switch or using the button on the front panel.


 
Well, it was at GC, so..........

I'm glad to hear that it was just that particular amp! Because I did like the tones, and if I decide on the 40C, I was thinking of ordering one from a web-based company that has 24 month no-interest financing (not sure what the forum policy is on stating names, hence the vague description). But before ordering online, I wanted confirmation that the one I tried was not normal - thanks!

Yes, I was changing channels via the front panel button.


----------



## solarburn

jwoods986 said:


> Well, it was at GC, so..........
> 
> I'm glad to hear that it was just that particular amp! Because I did like the tones, and if I decide on the 40C, I was thinking of ordering one from a web-based company that has 24 month no-interest financing (not sure what the forum policy is on stating names, hence the vague description). But before ordering online, I wanted confirmation that the one I tried was not normal - thanks!
> 
> Yes, I was changing channels via the front panel button.



Ok...haha jus wanted to be sure we were on the same page.

I got mine at Sweetwater cause their CS is awesomeness. You can drop names here. No foul. It's always good to see where we all can get good deals so we share that stuff.

Oh and welcome to the forum!


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## jwoods986

Thanks for the welcome, and yes, it is Sweetwater that I am referring to. I would choose them for 2 reasons:
1. 24 month financing
2. CS. Your comment just reinforces what I have read over and over about them.


----------



## solarburn

jwoods986 said:


> Thanks for the welcome, and yes, it is Sweetwater that I am referring to. I would choose them for 2 reasons:
> 1. 24 month financing
> 2. CS. Your comment just reinforces what I have read over and over about them.



I've been shopping with them for a few years now and have been looked after like I'm number one customer whether I'm just buying strings or an amp. You'll see what I mean if you buy from them.LOL I bought the Orange OR15 and the DSL40C there as far as amps go. Lots of smaller items.

Anyways if you get one post it up here.


----------



## Coronado

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Funny finding here. Remember when I mentioned a few posts back about my loop causing hum when on...I could turn it off and the hum would go away only to return when I switched the loop on? Well my DSL50's loop use to induce a slight bit of hum when plugged in or used so I thought this to be the same on the DSL40.
> 
> Well 2 days back I had been switching cables testing them for an unrelated thing and the hum all of a sudden disappeared. Funny thing is the only thing I changed was unplug pedals and set my loop back again. I thought maybe a connection was bad or whatever. Also I had bumped my LC1200 tipping it back...
> 
> Well today when I powered up the amp the hum was back. I hadn't messed with anything but moved the amp back. So I checked all connections and went through everything. Hum still there unless I turn the loop off then it goes away. So while moving cables around in back of the amp I have my Tripplite voltage regulator/power conditioner sitting back there. I move it back and bam the hum goes away with it. So I move it closer and the hum increases to where it was. Move it and it goes away. Haha! No more hum now. Funny how when switching the loop off it would disappear too. It doesn't hum unless the loop is engaged and the LC1200 is right next to the amp.


 
Hey SolarBurn! I have noticed that same hum in my DSL40 (and my JCM800 for that matter) when I engage the loop. Its not terribly loud, but it is noticeable. I'm wondering if any of my current electronics/chords/power strips could be causing this hum? Again, its not a very loud hum - is some of this hum normal?

Im also loving that Ruby you recommended in V1! Wondering how that would sound in my JCM800? You use one in your DSL100, correct? I believe you use an RFT in V2. Any other tubes you would recommend in V2 and V3 in addition to the RFT? (I'm currently running JJ's in V2-4 now. What changes would the RFT add in V2?

So many questions! My apologies brother - you have great advice!


----------



## Micky

If you want to eliminate your pedals or whatever you might have in the loop, just plug in a short jumper (6-12 inches) and engage the loop.
No hum? then your pedals and cabling is the culprit.
9 times outta 10, it is the cables to and from the setup...


----------



## solarburn

Coronado said:


> Hey SolarBurn! I have noticed that same hum in my DSL40 (and my JCM800 for that matter) when I engage the loop. Its not terribly loud, but it is noticeable. I'm wondering if any of my current electronics/chords/power strips could be causing this hum? Again, its not a very loud hum - is some of this hum normal?
> 
> Im also loving that Ruby you recommended in V1! Wondering how that would sound in my JCM800? You use one in your DSL100, correct? I believe you use an RFT in V2. Any other tubes you would recommend in V2 and V3 in addition to the RFT? (I'm currently running JJ's in V2-4 now. What changes would the RFT add in V2?
> 
> So many questions! My apologies brother - you have great advice!



I use the ac7 in my DSL40 too. The RFT is a better JJ83S. It's dark too but opens up when volume is added where the JJ stays flat. So the RFT sings which someone that solos is going to notice. You could mess around with V4 or the PI tube. Read that article I posted about that slot. Just a few posts back. Right now I have the stock preamp tubes in mine except for V2. Going back and forth with the AC7 in V1. I like both it and the stock one.

I could never get rid of the hum while using the loop on my DSL50. I tried new cables. The only time anything made a difference is when it was unplugged. The hum wasn't much though. I just accepted it after trying to get rid of it. I only ran delay in it. Didn't matter. The Dsl40 is quiet now. No induced hum since I moved the LC1200 away from it. My OR15 does the same. A bit of hum is induced when loop is plugged in. Negligible though.


----------



## Coronado

Micky said:


> If you want to eliminate your pedals or whatever you might have in the loop, just plug in a short jumper (6-12 inches) and engage the loop.





Micky said:


> No hum? then your pedals and cabling is the culprit.
> 9 times outta 10, it is the cables to and from the setup...




Thanks Micky! I'll give that a try and see if its my pedals and/or cables (so just plug one end of the jumper into the send input and the other into the return, correct?). Wouldnt be surprised if it was my pedals. I run 4 pedals in my loop (Hall of Fame reverb, Carbon Copy, Super Chorus, and MXR 10 band EQ). Having issues with the Reverb; for some reason, 1 out of 10 times I engage the pedal, it instantly blasts this incredibly loud hiss/static sound, no matter what the volume level is at. Nothing gets moved, just randomly when I step down on the pedal, you get that very loud static noise. Turn the pedal off, and its perfectly quiet. Something isnt right with my pedal. 

Also a little surprised by the amount of sound given off when I engage my EQ. There is this very loud CLICK when I click on or off of my EQ pedal. Not very conducive for recording when you hear this loud CLICK every time right before a solo! Is there some way to reduce this sound?

As always, thanks so much for the help!


----------



## Coronado

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I use the ac7 in my DSL40 too. The RFT is a better JJ83S. It's dark too but opens up when volume is added where the JJ stays flat. So the RFT sings which someone that solos is going to notice. You could mess around with V4 or the PI tube. Read that article I posted about that slot. Just a few posts back. Right now I have the stock preamp tubes in mine except for V2. Going back and forth with the AC7 in V1. I like both it and the stock one.
> 
> I could never get rid of the hum while using the loop on my DSL50. I tried new cables. The only time anything made a difference is when it was unplugged. The hum wasn't much though. I just accepted it after trying to get rid of it. I only ran delay in it. Didn't matter. The Dsl40 is quiet now. No induced hum since I moved the LC1200 away from it. My OR15 does the same. A bit of hum is induced when loop is plugged in. Negligible though.


 
I think I'm going to try that RFT in V2. You have probably tried tons of tubes over the years in multiple amps; if youre liking that RFT in V2 than i'm willing to bet that I'm going to dig this tube! Hell, I was blown away by that Ruby! What a difference! Could you remind me again the info/number for that RFT tube so I can order it from Dougs? Thanks brother!


----------



## Micky

Yes, anyone with more than one or two pedals usually has a short jumper they can try...

It just stresses the importance of using high quality cables.
Most cables you buy are lucky to have 70%-80% shield coverage.
This affects the capacitance of the cable also.

Of course better shield means quieter cable, but also it can mean higher capacitance, which can affect the audio tone. There is a very delicate balance between these two elements, and if you have an overtly bright amp, you can get away with a little hi-end loss because of the capacitance of the cable.

Also try to keep the cables as short as possible. No need for a pair of 20' cables when the pedals are directly in front of the amp. Better to have one set for practice where you can keep things short, and another for gigs where you can spread out a bit. Same thing is true for recording, you want the hum or hiss as low as possible for the best dynamic range.


----------



## Coronado

Off topic note: I went into GC on Sunday (Dallas location). They have a JTM45 on top of two cabs (couldnt see what was in the cab) selling for $4k. First time I have actually seen one of these in person. I thought man oh man, I hope someone didnt _have_ to sell this to pay a bill/debt...


----------



## Coronado

Micky said:


> Yes, anyone with more than one or two pedals usually has a short jumper they can try...
> 
> It just stresses the importance of using high quality cables.
> Most cables you buy are lucky to have 70%-80% shield coverage.
> This affects the capacitance of the cable also.
> 
> Of course better shield means quieter cable, but also it can mean higher capacitance, which can affect the audio tone. There is a very delicate balance between these two elements, and if you have an overtly bright amp, you can get away with a little hi-end loss because of the capacitance of the cable.
> 
> Also try to keep the cables as short as possible. No need for a pair of 20' cables when the pedals are directly in front of the amp. Better to have one set for practice where you can keep things short, and another for gigs where you can spread out a bit. Same thing is true for recording, you want the hum or hiss as low as possible for the best dynamic range.


 
Thanks a ton Micky - do you have a preferred connector and cable that you like to use? I'm kind of running all kinds of chords now (Mogami, Monster cables, and Fender/P. Waves/Monster pedal connectors). Might be time to go through and make sure all cables/connectors are in good shape.


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## Penguinchit

I can quit complaining about my noise issue. Found out, mine is fairly quiet compared to other 40Cs and it's kind of normal. 

If you remember, my replacement 40C was dead silent...No buzzing whatsoever. I asked about that and they attributed it to the preamp tube that was bad. Said that since it was on it's way out and not working right, it couldn't bump the gain, therefore, couldn't bump the noise as well. Makes sense. Sort of. I wonder how I could get the distortion if it couldn't bump the gain. So, does that mean that each of the 4 preamp tubes has a different duty? 
After putting a Decimator II noise gate in front of the amp, it sounded perfect. The only thing I didn't really like was how it cut the sustain out, but it wasn't bad enough for me to worry about. Now, I just have to save up for one of those.


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## Micky

Coronado - I will generally make my own cables. I prefer Switchcraft and Neutrik plugs (and jacks) and Belden or Mogami cable. For my short jumpers I have used Radio Shack OFC (Oxygen Free Copper) cables, 7mm or 8mm but they are the same as the Mogami hi-end stuff.

On occasion, I will use some no-name cable (if it has a good shield) but still put Switchcraft plugs on it. I also heat-shrink all the connections, and I always solder the plugs, I never use crimp-style stuff. Keeping cables as short as possible helps a lot.

I have a set of cables I use in the practice area, as well as a set of longer stuff I would use if I took the rig somewhere. That way I can just unplug everything and leave the cables right where they need to be and grab the amp and go.

I have some Whirlwind cables from the '70s, with big brass mil-spec plugs and everything. Those suckers are indestructible. I wouldn't use P.Waves or Monster stuff if you gave them to me free.


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## Coronado

Micky said:


> Coronado - I will generally make my own cables. I prefer Switchcraft and Neutrik plugs (and jacks) and Belden or Mogami cable. For my short jumpers I have used Radio Shack OFC (Oxygen Free Copper) cables, 7mm or 8mm but they are the same as the Mogami hi-end stuff.
> 
> On occasion, I will use some no-name cable (if it has a good shield) but still put Switchcraft plugs on it. I also heat-shrink all the connections, and I always solder the plugs, I never use crimp-style stuff. Keeping cables as short as possible helps a lot.
> 
> I have a set of cables I use in the practice area, as well as a set of longer stuff I would use if I took the rig somewhere. That way I can just unplug everything and leave the cables right where they need to be and grab the amp and go.
> 
> I have some Whirlwind cables from the '70s, with big brass mil-spec plugs and everything. Those suckers are indestructible. I wouldn't use P.Waves or Monster stuff if you gave them to me free.


 
I think I have my next project! Thanks for the info on who to use for the cable, plugs and jacks. I'll try to find some info online or in a book to help me learn how to create my cables, then go buy the supplies. So the Monster, Mogami and P. Waves stuff not all they make it out to be? Inconsistent and unreliable? Now that is interesting. Good to know!


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## Micky

I like Mogami, some of the best stuff made. Re-read my post...

The part I dislike most is molded plugs. I mean, after all, why use decent cable then injection mold the plugs on so they can't be repaired? You need to cut them off...


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## Dizzyg12

I stand by mogami gold cables. I was Picking up radio stations from Vietnam. Changed from chap live wire to mogami gold all the way around even patch cables....expensive but well worth it. Plus they have a lifetime guarantee. GC will replace any cable no questions asked.


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## saxon68

If you turned up past 5 you'd have hearing damage if it was working correctly.


----------



## solarburn

Coronado said:


> I think I'm going to try that RFT in V2. You have probably tried tons of tubes over the years in multiple amps; if youre liking that RFT in V2 than i'm willing to bet that I'm going to dig this tube! Hell, I was blown away by that Ruby! What a difference! Could you remind me again the info/number for that RFT tube so I can order it from Dougs? Thanks brother!



Coronado if you want to demo one of mine PM me. These can cost $40 and usually $50 and up since supply is dwindling. 

Just need to be a good guy and send it back. If you like I can tell you where to get one at $40. I don't want you buying one and not liking it at that price. I just did this with forum member pedecamp and he liked it but not more than his current production tubes. This was in his DSL50.


----------



## solarburn

Penguinchit said:


> I can quit complaining about my noise issue. Found out, mine is fairly quiet compared to other 40Cs and it's kind of normal.
> 
> If you remember, my replacement 40C was dead silent...No buzzing whatsoever. I asked about that and they attributed it to the preamp tube that was bad. Said that since it was on it's way out and not working right, it couldn't bump the gain, therefore, couldn't bump the noise as well. Makes sense. Sort of. I wonder how I could get the distortion if it couldn't bump the gain. So, does that mean that each of the 4 preamp tubes has a different duty?
> After putting a Decimator II noise gate in front of the amp, it sounded perfect. The only thing I didn't really like was how it cut the sustain out, but it wasn't bad enough for me to worry about. Now, I just have to save up for one of those.



Try noise gate in the loop too. See where you like it better.


----------



## Micky

Penguinchit said:


> So, does that mean that each of the 4 preamp tubes has a different duty?



Yes. Each has one particular strength. Also you need to remember that each 12AX7 is a twin triode configuration, meaning it is 2 tubes in one package, kinda like a dual-channel tube with totally separate channels and a shared heater section. Another note - V4 (V4a & V4b) is the Phase Inverter, and actually part of the Power Section.

To follow the signal path, you need to separate the scheme into the 2 channels, Classic and Ultra. Some sections are shared, and I can briefly outline all of this below: (I think I have described this elsewhere in this thread?)

Both channels start at V1a, which is the input buffer and the start of both channels. The Ultra channel takes the output of V1a and feeds V1b. Lead1 and Lead2 (OD1 & OD2) are switched here, and the gain for this channel is also controlled here. This is the extra gain stage for the Ultra channel and is the only real difference between the channels. The Classic channel does not use V1b.

The output from V1a (Classic) and the output from V1b (Ultra) both feed V2a, which in turn feeds V2b. V2 is strictly a gain stage tube, shared by both channels. V2b feeds V3a, an additional gain stage feeding V3b, whose output feeds the EQ circuitry. Both master volumes come after the EQ, just before the preamp output to the PI (V4).

Based on the above descriptions, it is kinda obvious that V1 plays a big part of the tone in the preamp, V2 needs to be a very sturdy tube with excellent gain characteristics, and V3, which also is a gain tube also needs to be a tube with good gain and excellent tone. 

There is a huge discussion about PI tubes elsewhere, personally I feel they don't play as much a part in the tone as they do in the power output. You can draw your own conclusions of course, and what tubes you use will probably be different that what I might choose.

In the end, it all boils down to what sounds good to YOU.


----------



## Penguinchit

Interesting. Sounds complicated and simple at the same time. Thanks for the info Micky.



solarburnDSL50 said:


> Try noise gate in the loop too. See where you like it better.



Didn't even think about that. They told me to get the gate as close to the guitar as possible, but trying the loop makes sense.


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## Skylarkpilot

For what it's worth on cables..... I wanted a twenty foot cable so I could get a bit further away from the amp and bought a Planet Waves. I never even got to play through it. Plugged it in and it sucked so much noise out of the atmosphere I immediately disconnected it and threw it in the drawer. Anyone in Sweden want a cable for free come and get it !


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## Gary Nelson

Well I never thought I would do this, but I cannot take the dirty muddy sound I get with the C19 off, so after my gig this weekend I will be soldering the C19 back in place. if Marshall had only provided tone controls for both channels it would not be a problem, but for the sound I need in the clean channel the tone settings do not fit my second channel, when I set them for the second channel then the clean channel is too thin and trebly. So I will solder the C19 back in place, and live with the bite the second channel gives me. I always loved Marshall amps, but they are just a piece of shit for sound now a days. I regret deeply selling my JCM 900 lead combo from the 80's. The only reason I sold it was I never thought I would play on the stage again, but I guess that is how it is. one final word though, Marshall has lost me forever, I would never buy another new amplifier from them ever! This amp cost me over $600 and will have to live with it. good luck guys, have fun..
Keep the music LIVE!

Gary..


----------



## Micky

Skylarkpilot said:


> For what it's worth on cables..... I wanted a twenty foot cable so I could get a bit further away from the amp and bought a Planet Waves. I never even got to play through it. Plugged it in and it sucked so much noise out of the atmosphere I immediately disconnected it and threw it in the drawer. Anyone in Sweden want a cable for free come and get it !



I have had a couple like that.

One that I thought was a good cable (don't remember what brand...) actually picked up noise from everywhere. It was years ago when I still had my Big Muff, and that was the lead about 15' to the input of the amp. Had no loop back then, didn't need it...

But anyway, one time I picked up the pedal and the cable to move it a few feet to the right and when I set it back down I heard a 'slap' type of noise as the cable hit the floor. It intrigued me, so i picked up the cable again and dropped it back to the floor. Sure as shit, another pop-slap type of noise from the amp. Unplugged the pedal, it still did it. Kicked the cable along the floor, and it made a swish sound as I dragged it around.

I never really noticed it as it was always stationary, and never moved. I replaced it and it stopped, but I didn't notice if it sounded any better...


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Gary Nelson said:


> Well I never thought I would do this, but I cannot take the dirty muddy sound I get with the C19 off, so after my gig this weekend I will be soldering the C19 back in place. if Marshall had only provided tone controls for both channels it would not be a problem, but for the sound I need in the clean channel the tone settings do not fit my second channel, when I set them for the second channel then the clean channel is too thin and trebly. So I will solder the C19 back in place, and live with the bite the second channel gives me. I always loved Marshall amps, but they are just a piece of shit for sound now a days. I regret deeply selling my JCM 900 lead combo from the 80's. The only reason I sold it was I never thought I would play on the stage again, but I guess that is how it is. one final word though, Marshall has lost me forever, I would never buy another new amplifier from them ever! This amp cost me over $600 and will have to live with it. good luck guys, have fun..
> Keep the music LIVE!
> 
> Gary..


Seems a bit extreme. Not "all" new Marshalls are a piece of shit because you can't get the sound you like. I'm surprised too because C19 mod equalized both channels for me. The shrill highs were on ultra channel before the mod, no shrill after. Crunch still sounds the same. It is not a dual EQ amp so there will be some compromises naturally but so many of us like the tones of that amp, I wonder if you have other issues with yours?


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## Micky

The C19 type of 'bright cap' mod is a common mod along DSL's, and to me, it is very dependent upon the speaker choice you have connected to the amp.

For example: I have an Eminence Texas Heat installed in my DSL40c, which to me differs slightly from the 70/80 it came with in a couple different ways. The 70/80 is seriously lacking in bass by comparison, and is kinda treble-rich until it is broken in. The Texas Heat on the other hand, is rich in bass as well as seemingly more accurate as far as full-range is concerned. To me, it is the perfect (almost) combination along with the C19 brite-cap mod.

On the other hand, my DSL5c is exactly as you have described it Gary, when unsoldering the brite-cap, and replacing the speaker from a cheap 10" celestion to a 12" WGS Vet30, it has completely muddied up the Ultra channel. You can't turn down the bass and mids enough to make the treble come thru. I will be lowering the value on that cap just a bit (from 470pf to maybe 100pf).

But to say Marshall amps are a piece of shit as far as sound is concerned MAAAAAY be taking things a bit too far. Have you played a YJM, JVM, SL5, VM or even a new re-issue? These beasts sound great right outta the box, and Marshall made sure the design was solid before they left the factory. I am certain I could add another 10 models to that statement and it would still ring true.

Is there ONE Marshall amp that does everything well? Maybe. But it won't cost $700...


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## Jethro Rocker

My little Mesa mini, though a fun little amp with 2 channels and complete set of controls for each, cannot switch from clean mode to crunch mode via footswitch either so for all those knobs and controls and over $900, It's in the same boat as the DSL line in that respect. Oh and it doesn't really get that Marshall sound without tinkering with an outboard EQ. I have a V30 in my DSL BTW...


----------



## Coronado

Micky said:


> The C19 type of 'bright cap' mod is a common mod along DSL's, and to me, it is very dependent upon the speaker choice you have connected to the amp.
> 
> For example: I have an Eminence Texas Heat installed in my DSL40c, which to me differs slightly from the 70/80 it came with in a couple different ways. The 70/80 is seriously lacking in bass by comparison, and is kinda treble-rich until it is broken in. The Texas Heat on the other hand, is rich in bass as well as seemingly more accurate as far as full-range is concerned. To me, it is the perfect (almost) combination along with the C19 brite-cap mod.
> 
> On the other hand, my DSL5c is exactly as you have described it Gary, when unsoldering the brite-cap, and replacing the speaker from a cheap 10" celestion to a 12" WGS Vet30, it has completely muddied up the Ultra channel. You can't turn down the bass and mids enough to make the treble come thru. I will be lowering the value on that cap just a bit (from 470pf to maybe 100pf).
> 
> But to say Marshall amps are a piece of shit as far as sound is concerned MAAAAAY be taking things a bit too far. Have you played a YJM, JVM, SL5, VM or even a new re-issue? These beasts sound great right outta the box, and Marshall made sure the design was solid before they left the factory. I am certain I could add another 10 models to that statement and it would still ring true.
> 
> Is there ONE Marshall amp that does everything well? Maybe. But it won't cost $700...


 
Couldn’t agree more Micky - My 40C was a tad on the bright side at first as well. Just as you mentioned with your Texas Heat, as soon as I put a V30 in, it was a complete different story. Add the fact that I also put a somewhat darker Ruby HG tube in V1, and now I most likely _need_ the C19 left alone. Actually, at times I will add some SD1 or MXR 10 band EQ to ADD some brightness when Im full gain on OD2! 

I have come to the conclusion that the 40C is one of the best amps out there. So its a tad quirky, and my reverb didn’t work, and the speaker wasn’t working right, and then I had to replace the power and then preamp tubes... That DSL40C and I fought back and forth for weeks! But once I gave her a little TLC, we're talking a whole new amp. I can’t WAIT to try a new tube in V2, then V3, then V4! The frickin' house RUMBLES with the new tubes and speaker!! The cleans are amazing, and I have YET to fully explore all the sounds I can get! And hell, the V30 aint even close to being broken in yet! 

My advice Gary, don’t give up just yet. I admit the Seventy 80 is a bit rough. She's a bit quirky at times like I mentioned, but once you get it all dialed in, its worth it!


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## Gary Nelson

I've used Marshall amps since the late 70s and yes I am very disappointed in this one, as I was in the MG I bought the first part of 2013 and sold to get this one. you can say what you want, but to be competitive in the market Marshall has to cut cost, and by doing so they cause the quality to drop. I paid over $600 for this amp, and it is not worth it by a long shot, I'm a musician I have good ears, and I record a lot and have for many years, I know what I am hearing.

of course it is only my opinion, and I will live with it until I can find a better sound.


----------



## tjinca1

I have found (and it may have been mentioned earlier in this thread) that once the gain is up past about 3:00, the treble problem is gone. I don't know why, but that's what I have found. The only problem is if you don't want that much gain - but I like it. I don't do total cleans.


----------



## Badlittledoggie85

I swapped out the 70/80 with a eminence 
Cannabis rex and it sounds amazing 
It has really tight response and the bottom end 
Is fat sounding, I personally think it's a good fit 
For the amp,it tamed the mids just enough to not
Get that's fizzy sound you get with the original
Speaker. I know these speakers go well with the fender 
Hot rod series to tame the shrilly mid's
And it does the same with this amp in my opinion.
First I swapped it with a uk vintage 30 
And I didn't like it because it still had that mid spike
I can't stand 
Hope this helps


----------



## saxon68

I'm thrilled with what I got for a bit over 600. Would I like a more pricey one better? Yup probly, but you get what you pay for. You can't buy a V6 mustang and then bitch it doesn't sound or perform like a GT.


----------



## JEB

Mine started getting noisy and having a weird ringing sound...one of my =C= power tubes had went bad after about 6 months. The getter oxidized.






I switched out to KT-77s and the amp still sounded like crap...very noisy.
I switched out my pre-amp tubes for some of Marty's and installed some Belton tube shields and it's a night and day difference.

The amp is dead quiet now. With the gain and volume peg'd, there is barely any noticeable hum on the clean and crunch channel. One of my pre-amp tubes must have been going bad as well. This thing is sweet.

Anyway...moral of the story...to those guys out there that aren't liking the amp, double check your pre-amp tubes. I had no idea that they'd make this kind of difference.

On a different note, I am starting to dislike the MFD particle board wood or whatever the amp is made from. In all fairness, I've had it apart tinkering with it so many times, that it probably wouldn't be an issue for most people, but I'm starting to strip the wood screws. I'll have to look into some type of bolt upgrade for the back panel.


----------



## Micky

JEB said:


> On a different note, I am starting to dislike the MFD particle board wood or whatever the amp is made from. In all fairness, I've had it apart tinkering with it so many times, that it probably wouldn't be an issue for most people, but I'm starting to strip the wood screws. I'll have to look into some type of bolt upgrade for the back panel.



Great info about your tubes. Very important...

Good tubes cost more. They make all the difference in the world.
Keep your originals as spares. You will need them eventually.
NOS (New Old Stock) tubes seem to be the best. 
They don't make them like they used to. PM MartyStrat54 for more info...

About the back - I think I have a solution, and I heard it here but I cannot remember from who...

Get some t-nuts like what are used in speaker baffles for mounting the speakers, they also use them for the handle screws. Drill thru the holes in the cab, install the t-nuts behind the back panel mounting strips. Then use the appropriate size machine screw with the correct washer to mount the back on. I hope to have photos here or in the DSL5c thread about this, as mine are getting stripped out as well from taking the back off to remove the chassis or speaker...


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> Yeah, I measured 55 after the swap. The Eminence is a hefty 11 lbs.
> After all it is a 150 watt speaker. Those magnets aren't light.
> 
> I will have to get a custom cover for mine. Side handles aren't standard.



I just picked up my DSL40C a week or so ago so am reading through this thread from the beginning. Any issues running the 150w speaker through a 40w amp? I'm only running mine in half power mode. -Rod-


----------



## solarburn

Aren't microphonic tubes fun Jeb hehe. Glad you got it squared away.


----------



## Micky

USAPatriot said:


> I just picked up my DSL40C a week or so ago so am reading through this thread from the beginning. Any issues running the 150w speaker through a 40w amp? I'm only running mine in half power mode. -Rod-



No issues. Generally higher wattage speakers are more efficient, i.e. louder.
As long as you plug the speaker into the proper impedance output you are fine.

Running a 25W speaker in this amp would be a problem...


----------



## USAPatriot

wangchung said:


> Hey MD;
> I played all of my axes thru this thing over the weekend and discovered
> it is very sensitive to pickup tonal characteristics. I've been using a LP
> with a tonezone and a bluesbucker and it was kind of boomy (no surprise
> there really). My Hamer's got a Duncan JB and a PAF in it and it sounds
> great. My LP with a Dimarzio super3 and a Fred sounded great too.
> It likes to be fed midrange methinks. I just rolled off the tone for the
> desired honk/crunch and off I goes...A balanced, "full range" pup would
> prob be best for all-round. It doesn't boost or attenuate what it doesn't
> have to work with well. Create frequencies that aren't there like some
> amps can do to some extent (I think).



Speaking of honk, I can get that, often more than I want, but am really looking for some honk with a southern accent...think Gimme Three Steps...but I can't find it. The DSL40C is stock. It may be the guitar, a '14 Standard... I'm feeling so close yet so far. Any ideas? Thanks! -Rod-


----------



## solarburn

I did some more preamp tube rolling. I had the stock V1 and RFT V2. The other 2 slots are also stock.

So I put the stock V1 into V2 taking out my RFT which is my warm sounding tube. I put my AC7HG+ in V1 which is actually a well rounded tube...not trebly or too bassy and not scooped either.

Putting the stock V1 into V2 introduced some cutting highs. Big difference over the RFT in the same slot. I would have needed to EQ all over again if I left it there. Tone wasn't bad but it was cutting too much. Lots of singing highs but piercing to my ears. That was a no go.

Then I put my AC5HG+ into V2 and kept the AC7HG+ in V1. This added some bottom end thump and singing highs that were not piercing. The mids were not scooped. Everything was nice and articulate. For me it took away any sag or give for a more defined tone. My only quibble with this is it is so clear I lost some dirt for a cleaner saturation although the tone was pretty damn good. I'll have to mess with it more. Roll off induces a cleaner tone a lot quicker. Not as raw as my RFT in the mix. The increase in bottom end thump is cool though. There is no mud or flab at volume 4...freak'n ears hurt.

Stock speaker and 34L's in the power section in case any one new was wondering.

I'm going to screw around with a couple of RFT's...V1 & V2 and see how dark it gets.


----------



## Micky

USAPatriot said:


> Speaking of honk, I can get that, often more than I want, but am really looking for some honk with a southern accent...think Gimme Three Steps...but I can't find it. The DSL40C is stock. It may be the guitar, a '14 Standard... I'm feeling so close yet so far. Any ideas? Thanks! -Rod-



Try some different preamp tubes. There are lots of choices, seemingly limitless combinations...


----------



## Micky

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Then I put my AC5HG+ into V2 and kept the AC7HG+ in V1. This added some bottom end thump and singing highs that were not piercing. The mids were not scooped. Everything was nice and articulate. For me it took away any sag or give for a more defined tone. My only quibble with this is it is so clear I lost some dirt for a cleaner saturation although the tone was pretty damn good. I'll have to mess with it more. Roll off induces a cleaner tone a lot quicker. Not as raw as my RFT in the mix. The increase in bottom end thump is cool though. There is no mud or flab at volume 4...freak'n ears hurt.



This is what I am looking for...

What channel/mode are you using for this?


----------



## solarburn

Ok the RFT's are out. One was noisy as shit anyways.

Put the AC7+ back in V1 & AC5+ in V2. Quiet noise floor. Good. This time I rolled off the guitars tone knob and wow does it respond more. Got any warmth I lost with the RFT's back and some nice textures. Very cool. I'm going to keep these 2 in.

Coronado don't get an RFT. Use the AC7+ and AC5+ for V1 & V2. Let me know what you think...


----------



## solarburn

Micky said:


> This is what I am looking for...
> 
> What channel/mode are you using for this?



I used both the Crunch mode boosted with my Rook and Lead 2 with low gain on its own of course. Responded the same on both voicings as far as roll off both volume and tone. I'm liking this Micky. I hadn't tried this till now and I've had the tubes for awhile now.

The thump works across the board on both too.

Oh and I can hear all my strings evenly or more evenly now. Everything's up front.


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> Try some different preamp tubes. There are lots of choices, seemingly limitless combinations...



LOL. I wouldn't know where to start. I have Tungsols, JJ's, some that came out of a Fender PJ (Probably JJ's if I recall), a grab bag of some old stock that I picked up along the way and I even have retrovalves in all 3 flavors. Mind you, in gaining a southern honk, I absolutely would not want to lose the Marshall mojo. It needs to sound like a Marshall built in Bryan, Texas, not just an amp with some twang. I'm using crunch, not Ultra, gain at about 6...it's got a lot of "touch" -Rod-


----------



## Pasloade74

Do you guys typically have you DSL 40s in 40 watt or 20 watt mode when playing at home? I've been playing in 40 watts but recently switched to 20. I'm gonna try running it at 20 watts today at band practice and see if it makes a big difference. I usually have my volume between 4-5 at rehearsal so I'm sure I'll like it running half power.


----------



## solarburn

Always run mine at 40w. Don't know what half power sounds like. Spent about 10 seconds on it just to make sure it functioned at 20w. 

Let us know what you think...


----------



## lordquilton

"Speaking of honk, I can get that, often more than I want, but am really looking for some honk with a southern accent...think Gimme Three Steps"

If you mean the very first guitar on the studio version, that sounds like a stratocaster to me.


----------



## Dizzyg12

Pasloade74 said:


> Do you guys typically have you DSL 40s in 40 watt or 20 watt mode when playing at home? I've been playing in 40 watts but recently switched to 20. I'm gonna try running it at 20 watts today at band practice and see if it makes a big difference. I usually have my volume between 4-5 at rehearsal so I'm sure I'll like it running half power.



40w always. Volume between 3-4 or 8-9 o'clock.


----------



## ToneWarrior

Hello, I just got my DSL40c and the first thing I noticed was a delay when turning it on before the channel light comes on. Is this normal?


----------



## solarburn

Normal.


----------



## ToneWarrior

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Normal.



Sweet..Thanks.

So far I think this amp kicks ass right out of the box. I've been doing a lot of reading a listening about this amp and I can see what everyone is saying like the brightness or harshness of the Red Channel or that the cleans aren't very clean etc. etc. Well as a former owner of 3 JCM 2000 DSL's I remember reading a bunch of negative reviews about that amp when it first came out and at the time I remember scratching my head because like the DSL40C I loved that amp right out of the box. I also love the stock tubes that come with Marshall's. I tried to find out who makes them so I could buy more if I needed to replace the tubes.

The thing I've learned about Marshall tube amps whether it's a Plexi, JMP, 800, 900, Bluesbreaker or whatever it's just a part of the overall sound. It's a really big part but just one equation. You have to consider guitars, pickups and most importantly the player. I'll be generous and say 50% of your tone comes from your hands. As it's been said at nauseum EVH will sound like EVH regardless if he's playing a Marshall or a Peavey and there are recordings of him playing both to compare. You also have to take in account the aging process, the breakin factor and the time it takes to learn the amp, guitar or effect. Over time as components heat up and cool down they form a smoother less obstructive path like water cutting out a stream which results in a warmer tone. As the components age their materials start to break down and create less obstruction like the speaker cones will move easier and sound less harsh than a new speaker. And probably the most important factor is you getting to know the amp and how to get out of it what you want to hear from it by using every element of the signal chain from your hands all the way down to the speaker. A direct tube signal exposes the sloppyness of your playing and I believe it's up to the player to conform to the amp rather than the other way around.

I plan to keep my DSL40 stock for at least a year before I even attempt to do anything to it. IMO it's a waste of time trying to change something brand new to sound like something that's 10 or 20 years old or older. It'll become what it's going to become in time.

FWIW; After listening to a lot of demo's I think most of them don't do this amp any justice. I don't like the C19 mod and I to wish the footswitch would switch between the channel modes rather than turn the reverb on and off. I felt the same about the JCM DSL's. I also like the resonance knob over the deep switch on the original DSL's. And finally you don't buy a Marshall for it's clean sound, a Marshall's clean sound is what it is. I personally like the Marshall clean sound.


----------



## solarburn

ToneWarrior said:


> Sweet..Thanks.
> 
> So far I think this amp kicks ass right out of the box. I've been doing a lot of reading a listening about this amp and I can see what everyone is saying like the brightness or harshness of the Red Channel or that the cleans aren't very clean etc. etc. Well as a former owner of 3 JCM 2000 DSL's I remember reading a bunch of negative reviews about that amp when it first came out and at the time I remember scratching my head because like the DSL40C I loved that amp right out of the box. I also love the stock tubes that come with Marshall's. I tried to find out who makes them so I could buy more if I needed to replace the tubes.
> 
> The thing I've learned about Marshall tube amps whether it's a Plexi, JMP, 800, 900, Bluesbreaker or whatever it's just a part of the overall sound. It's a really big part but just one equation. You have to consider guitars, pickups and most importantly the player. I'll be generous and say 50% of your tone comes from your hands. As it's been said at nauseum EVH will sound like EVH regardless if he's playing a Marshall or a Peavey and there are recordings of him playing both to compare. You also have to take in account the aging process, the breakin factor and the time it takes to learn the amp, guitar or effect. Over time as components heat up and cool down they form a smoother less obstructive path like water cutting out a stream which results in a warmer tone. As the components age their materials start to break down and create less obstruction like the speaker cones will move easier and sound less harsh than a new speaker. And probably the most important factor is you getting to know the amp and how to get out of it what you want to hear from it by using every element of the signal chain from your hands all the way down to the speaker. A direct tube signal exposes the sloppyness of your playing and I believe it's up to the player to conform to the amp rather than the other way around.
> 
> I plan to keep my DSL40 stock for at least a year before I even attempt to do anything to it. IMO it's a waste of time trying to change something brand new to sound like something that's 10 or 20 years old or older. It'll become what it's going to become in time.
> 
> FWIW; After listening to a lot of demo's I think most of them don't do this amp any justice. I don't like the C19 mod and I to wish the footswitch would switch between the channel modes rather than turn the reverb on and off. I felt the same about the JCM DSL's. I also like the resonance knob over the deep switch on the original DSL's. And finally you don't buy a Marshall for it's clean sound, a Marshall's clean sound is what it is. I personally like the Marshall clean sound.



I liked the amp right out of the box too. For me and my tastes the Crunch boosted and Lead 2 low gained is where I live and breath. I pretty much don't use Lead 1 cause I can utilize the amps shared EQ for both Lead 2 and crunch. So no need to foot switch between Lead channels plus it would need EQ adjustments between the 2 due to the top end on Lead 1.

Still playing the shit out of mine. Ears hurt from the last 2 days of volume at 4. Loud amp.


----------



## ToneWarrior

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I liked the amp right out of the box too. For me and my tastes the Crunch boosted and Lead 2 low gained is where I live and breath. I pretty much don't use Lead 1 cause I can utilize the amps shared EQ for both Lead 2 and crunch. So no need to foot switch between Lead channels plus it would need EQ adjustments between the 2 due to the top end on Lead 1.
> 
> Still playing the shit out of mine. Ears hurt from the last 2 days of volume at 4. Loud amp.



The only reason I would want to be able to switch between modes is from clean to crunch on the green channel. I wanted that so bad with my JCM which made me buy my JVM 410HJS. I only use the Red Channel as a lead boost but on my JCM I could get a lot of nice tones from both OD1 and OD2. I haven't spent much time on the Red Channel in the DSL40 as I'm loving the Green Channel with the amp set at 20watts. I live in a townhouse so turning it up to 4 isn't an option here.


----------



## solarburn

ToneWarrior said:


> The only reason I would want to be able to switch between modes is from clean to crunch on the green channel. I wanted that so bad with my JCM which made me buy my JVM 410HJS. I only use the Red Channel as a lead boost but on my JCM I could get a lot of nice tones from both OD1 and OD2. I haven't spent much time on the Red Channel in the DSL40 as I'm loving the Green Channel with the amp set at 20watts. I live in a townhouse so turning it up to 4 isn't an option here.




Yeah I'm spoiled here. My neighbours let me off my leash from 9am to 9pm. I can play loud if I want then. 

I've never used the clean only on my DSL50/40. I prefer rolling off to it but I don't play high gain so it's reachable for me. I like a bit of break up in my cleans anyways.

Really liked what you said about getting to know the amp first. That has been true for me too. I have better command of my tones when I learn the amp. I find them sometimes quickly sometimes later down the road. It took me a year to get a handle on my DSL50. I found more good than bad when I was done hehe.


----------



## Pumpkin88

tjinca1 said:


> I have found (and it may have been mentioned earlier in this thread) that once the gain is up past about 3:00, the treble problem is gone. I don't know why, but that's what I have found. The only problem is if you don't want that much gain - but I like it. I don't do total cleans.



Marshall recommends setting the EQ at 12:00 to get the most out of it. Personally I think thats a pretty accurate setting. Tweak as needed but its a great starting point IMO.


----------



## Pasloade74

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Always run mine at 40w. Don't know what half power sounds like. Spent about 10 seconds on it just to make sure it functioned at 20w.
> 
> Let us know what you think...



Spent about 4 hours in rehearsal today with it in 20 watt mode. Really couldn't tell much difference on ultra 1. Classic crunch is where I could tell the difference. Half way through I turned off my overdrive pedal because it was too harsh. With the gain at 3:00 it breaks up nicely. I was able to play some lighter alternative and classic rock tunes without a problem. It was a good feeling not having to always rely on an overdrive pedal. I'm sure at some point I'll switch back to 40 and do another comparison.


----------



## Just Mike

Has anyone found a way to get more reverb out of these? I like having on board reverb, but it just isn't enough for some things.


----------



## Micky

Pasloade74 said:


> Spent about 4 hours in rehearsal today with it in 20 watt mode. Really couldn't tell much difference on ultra 1. Classic crunch is where I could tell the difference. Half way through I turned off my overdrive pedal because it was too harsh. With the gain at 3:00 it breaks up nicely. I was able to play some lighter alternative and classic rock tunes without a problem. It was a good feeling not having to always rely on an overdrive pedal. I'm sure at some point I'll switch back to 40 and do another comparison.



Clean/Crunch headroom is the biggest difference in 20W mode, the volume difference is barely perceptible. I never noticed much difference on the Ultra channel, I don't use that much on the DSL40c.

I don't use a distortion pedal on the 40c, but I did start experimenting with a Boss EQ-7 in the loop.


----------



## Just Mike

An OCD or a TS-9 in front of the green crunch channel is all I need. I don't even use the Ultra channel. But I'm an old guy who plays Classic rock.


----------



## USAPatriot

Pasloade74 said:


> Do you guys typically have you DSL 40s in 40 watt or 20 watt mode when playing at home? I've been playing in 40 watts but recently switched to 20. I'm gonna try running it at 20 watts today at band practice and see if it makes a big difference. I usually have my volume between 4-5 at rehearsal so I'm sure I'll like it running half power.



I haven't yet flipped mine over to 40. For all I know it doesn't work 
But 20 is plenty for me. If I go out to the park or just out in the middle of nowhere (easy to do in central Texas!)...which I try to do once or twice per year...I'll likely flip the switch and let 'er rip. It's really the only time I can crank up my amps and get the full benefit of the tubes. I've taken my JCA22H on 3 such road trips so far and it's great fun. I wish there was a way to cut the noise from the power inverter though. Mine's kinda ancient...maybe the newer ones ar quieter. Something to think about. Anyhow, good luck with yours. 20w will probably surprise you since you've not tried it yet. It's got a yummy sound! -Rod-


----------



## USAPatriot

lordquilton said:


> "Speaking of honk, I can get that, often more than I want, but am really looking for some honk with a southern accent...think Gimme Three Steps"
> 
> If you mean the very first guitar on the studio version, that sounds like a stratocaster to me.



I always thought it sounded more tele, myself. I've tried getting there both in hummer mode and in split-coil mode but it's not doing it. This guitar may not get there is all. A different speaker might but I'm not going to do that just to chase one of a hundred different things I'm working on. I'm NOT learning to play the song, though it's a damn goody...one of the best ever...just looking for that tone  -Rod-


----------



## USAPatriot

Just Mike said:


> Has anyone found a way to get more reverb out of these? I like having on board reverb, but it just isn't enough for some things.



I'm curious, is the reverb on the 15C better than the reverb on the 40C? I chose the 40C because of the separate reverb knobs (plus a $150 discount for a nothing blemish didn't hurt!) but realistically there's enough reverb here for me. I do remember my Blackstar HT-40 though and it's reverb was a hottie. I'd turn it all the way up and do some really funky things with it, everything else turned off, including the GT-10's preamps. I kinda miss that. -Rod-


----------



## Micky

I believe all reverb-equipped newer DSL's use the same digital reverb board and circuit.

None are very 'strong' in my opinion...


----------



## Straydog

Straydog said:


> I just changed mine to a Creamback too. I think it makes a big difference. I'm carefully breaking it in but it really does sound better than the 70/80. Bought my amp new so either speaker needs to be used a while but the Creamback seems to be a great match. I guess time will tell.


 

Well after a month of my speaker change I can now say that I'm not sure it was such a good idea. $150 for the Creamback and although the lows are much better and smoother I seem to have lost some of the upper mids. I had a volume/tone setting that I liked but the amp with the 70/80 speaker had the "buzz" that guys have spoken about on this forum. I figured upgrading the speaker would help this. Since the change that setting is no good anymore. A friend of mine played his Les Paul Studio through it and said it sounded more like a Fender guitar. Yikes! I didn't want to go there. So now I have to find a fix for this. I did change the V1 but it wasn't the cause of this. Maybe it's just the speaker isn't broken in enough yet? I've played it 4-5 hours a week since I got it so I'm not sure if that's enough of a breakin period? Maybe go to a V30? Maybe just buy $1000 worth of new speakers and try them one at a time until I find the right one and then sell of the excess? I don't think so....... And I really don't want to open up the amp to the board mods......not yet anyway...


----------



## solarburn

Straydog said:


> Well after a month of my speaker change I can now say that I'm not sure it was such a good idea. $150 for the Creamback and although the lows are much better and smoother I seem to have lost some of the upper mids. I had a volume/tone setting that I liked but the amp with the 70/80 speaker had the "buzz" that guys have spoken about on this forum. I figured upgrading the speaker would help this. Since the change that setting is no good anymore. A friend of mine played his Les Paul Studio through it and said it sounded more like a Fender guitar. Yikes! I didn't want to go there. So now I have to find a fix for this. I did change the V1 but it wasn't the cause of this. Maybe it's just the speaker isn't broken in enough yet? I've played it 4-5 hours a week since I got it so I'm not sure if that's enough of a breakin period? Maybe go to a V30? Maybe just buy $1000 worth of new speakers and try them one at a time until I find the right one and then sell of the excess? I don't think so....... And I really don't want to open up the amp to the board mods......not yet anyway...



You know what I have noticed about the 70/80 which is still in mine?

If I move off axis a certain amount I pick some harsh upper mid frequencies and lows disappear. Now it's not real bad but it's noticeable. I find the amps sweet spot in front of it but back a few paces. No weird mid harshness. It's a combo so there will be a certain amount of direction focused tone where it sounds good...not so good when moving away to the side. This has happened with all my tube preamp combinations I've used in it although the darker or smoother V1 or V2 is...the less it happens. I'm just gonna chalk this up to speaker direction related frequency zones haha.

Have you checked the bias lately to see where it is at? Be a good thing to rule out as a contributing factor. Preamp tube changes are cheaper than speaker and I would just concentrate on V1 & V2. More cost effective as a starting point. These 2 slots make the biggest difference.

Have you tried turning the mids down? Where are your settings that you liked when it sounded good? Pick up height can be adjusted for its own sweet spot. My bridge pup has strong mids and you can really hear them change with height adjustment. To me the amp has strong upper mids so finding a sweet spot using my guitar with mid laden pick ups takes some tuning. I've found some shit zones with harsh mids instead of musical pleasing ones. Working with what I like and getting it all to mix and play nice.

So to be correct...your friend thought his LP sounded like a twangy guitar? Meaning there is maybe upper frequencies making it sound that way or the upper mids are missing? Just thinking here... the reason I ask is one of my guitar playing buddies thought I was using a single coil guitar instead of my humbucker. It's was a recording using this amp. My first clip here with it straight out of the box.


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

USAPatriot said:


> I always thought it sounded more tele, myself. I've tried getting there both in hummer mode and in split-coil mode but it's not doing it. This guitar may not get there is all. A different speaker might but I'm not going to do that just to chase one of a hundred different things I'm working on. I'm NOT learning to play the song, though it's a damn goody...one of the best ever...just looking for that tone  -Rod-



I play it with all my guitars but it sounds best with my LP Jr and my Tele. Not that it sounds bad with my LP Standard. I play it on green with a little bit of my Rat 2 dialled in and my Bad Monkey for boost/flavor. Great sound and great song.


----------



## Gary Nelson

Gary Nelson said:


> I've used Marshall amps since the late 70s and yes I am very disappointed in this one, as I was in the MG I bought the first part of 2013 and sold to get this one. you can say what you want, but to be competitive in the market Marshall has to cut cost, and by doing so they cause the quality to drop. I paid over $600 for this amp, and it is not worth it by a long shot, I'm a musician I have good ears, and I record a lot and have for many years, I know what I am hearing.
> 
> of course it is only my opinion, and I will live with it until I can find a better sound.



I know I may have been a little tough on Marshall Amps in my feedback last week, and I know I offended some of you over my statement of "this DSL40c being a piece of shit" I am sorry for the strong words, I was very frustrated at that moment with my amp and sound. I have re-soldered my C19 cap back in place as I stated before the second channel was too muddy for me so I put the C19 back in place. 
the second channel is now more brighter and it is not muddy, the muddy sound was what I could not take.
so I tested it this morning and I will live with it in the stock mode.

by the way, I do love the Marshall sound and I will keep the amp, but it sure is different then my JCM I had back in the 80s I just have to get used to it.
once a Marshall customer, always a Marshall customer, that's me.

again I am sorry for offending some of you.

I did some good rockin tunes this morning, LOVE that C19 CAP....

you never know how the wind is going to blow 

Gary..


----------



## ToneWarrior

I'm a new poster around here, I usually don't reply I just read so I don't know how many of you caught my review of the amp but in it I said I would keep it stock for at least a year. Well I have a 1960BX with Greenbacks in it and just out of curiosity I plugged it in the DSL40 and WOW!!

It's a completely different amp going through that cabinet which made me realize that all the harshness that people complain about is definitely in the stock speaker. The fact that it's a 1x12 and the cabinet is a 4x12 is going to make a huge difference but I can tell those of you that don't have the opportunity to play the amp through a 4x12 there's nothing wrong with the amp as it comes out of the box. I have a V30, G12T 75 and a Creamback 65 that I'm going to try out in the amp.

Does anyone have any experience in breaking in speakers other than playing it in the amp? Can I hook it up to a stereo and blast the shit out of it? I'm curious what the 70/80 will sound like broken in but after hearing the amp with different speakers I don't feel much like taking the time to break it in.


----------



## Micky

Gary Nelson said:


> I know I may have been a little tough on Marshall Amps in my feedback last week, and I know I offended some of you over my statement of "this DSL40c being a piece of shit" I am sorry for the strong words, I was very frustrated at that moment with my amp and sound. I have re-soldered my C19 cap back in place as I stated before the second channel was too muddy for me so I put the C19 back in place.
> the second channel is now more brighter and it is not muddy, the muddy sound was what I could not take.
> so I tested it this morning and I will live with it in the stock mode.
> 
> by the way, I do love the Marshall sound and I will keep the amp, but it sure is different then my JCM I had back in the 80s I just have to get used to it.
> once a Marshall customer, always a Marshall customer, that's me.
> 
> again I am sorry for offending some of you.
> 
> I did some good rockin tunes this morning, LOVE that C19 CAP....
> 
> you never know how the wind is going to blow
> 
> Gary..



Gary - I don't think you really offended anyone here, anybody that has this amp and has played it a bit knows it's potential, and just maybe thought you were a bit 'impatient'...

Anyway, as I have stated in my DSL5c thread, I am with you in the fact that the brite cap is there for a reason, in fact it is in all DSL's since the beginning. I feel it has more to do with the speaker selection than anything else, after all it is all about the EQ settings and getting rid of the excessive treble response. If anything its value should be adjusted, and not necessarily eliminated.

I have been so consumed with the 5c as of late I haven't had a chance to revisit this, my DSL40c was sounding great a couple months ago when I put a cover on it...

And TW - the 70/80 is a good speaker, and you may be correct that after it loosens up a bit it has a different response. You should be able to connect it to any amp and play it for a while to break it in. Google the shit outta that and you will get millions of opinions.

Anyway, now that the warmer weather might be here soon, I will be downstairs more often to play this beast. I will probably end up changing the value of the brite cap, and yes, even though I have a couple 4X12 cabs I am still looking for a 2X12 for this combo that will fit nicely underneath and look good. I am still leaning towards the MX212...


----------



## Coronado

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Ok the RFT's are out. One was noisy as shit anyways.
> 
> Put the AC7+ back in V1 & AC5+ in V2. Quiet noise floor. Good. This time I rolled off the guitars tone knob and wow does it respond more. Got any warmth I lost with the RFT's back and some nice textures. Very cool. I'm going to keep these 2 in.
> 
> Coronado don't get an RFT. Use the AC7+ and AC5+ for V1 & V2. Let me know what you think...


 
Perfect timing! I'm about to order those tubes now and read your post about not getting the RFT. COOL! So I will pick up the AC5+ today. By the way, how do 2 AC7+s sound in V1 AND V2?

Thanks!


----------



## Pasloade74

Micky said:


> Clean/Crunch headroom is the biggest difference in 20W mode, the volume difference is barely perceptible. I never noticed much difference on the Ultra channel, I don't use that much on the DSL40c.
> 
> I don't use a distortion pedal on the 40c, but I did start experimenting with a Boss EQ-7 in the loop.



An eq in the loop is an awesome volume boost for leads. The guys in the band were blown away when my lead towered over them.


----------



## Pasloade74

Just for the heck of it I decided to swap out the vintage 30 for an Eminence Wizard I had. I gotta say I'm pretty impressed. Its a lot smoother and doesn't have doesn't have the strong mids like the v30. It also has more bottom end and the clean crunch channel breaks up a lot sooner. I like it! We'll see how it sounds with the band.


----------



## solarburn

Coronado said:


> Perfect timing! I'm about to order those tubes now and read your post about not getting the RFT. COOL! So I will pick up the AC5+ today. By the way, how do 2 AC7+s sound in V1 AND V2?
> 
> Thanks!



Well I only have 1 AC7+ and 1 AC5+ so that's all I know right now. I would think another AC7 would be fine. The Ac5 probably sounds like the AC7. I may get a couple more AC7+ sooner than later just to have on hand though. The Ac5 is a bit cheaper.


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

Micky said:


> Gary - I don't think you really offended anyone here, anybody that has this amp and has played it a bit knows it's potential, and just maybe thought you were a bit 'impatient'...
> 
> Anyway, as I have stated in my DSL5c thread, I am with you in the fact that the brite cap is there for a reason, in fact it is in all DSL's since the beginning. I feel it has more to do with the speaker selection than anything else, after all it is all about the EQ settings and getting rid of the excessive treble response. If anything its value should be adjusted, and not necessarily eliminated.
> 
> I have been so consumed with the 5c as of late I haven't had a chance to revisit this, my DSL40c was sounding great a couple months ago when I put a cover on it...
> 
> And TW - the 70/80 is a good speaker, and you may be correct that after it loosens up a bit it has a different response. You should be able to connect it to any amp and play it for a while to break it in. Google the shit outta that and you will get millions of opinions.
> 
> Anyway, now that the warmer weather might be here soon, I will be downstairs more often to play this beast. I will probably end up changing the value of the brite cap, and yes, even though I have a couple 4X12 cabs I am still looking for a 2X12 for this combo that will fit nicely underneath and look good. I am still leaning towards the MX212...



I've been looking at a Traynor and Avatar 2x12 cabs as well. I still have the Seventy80 in mine so maybe I should be looking to change that first. I'm keeping an eye on Craigslist and Kijiji for something to pop up. Until then I'm digging the amp as is.


----------



## solarburn

Well I wanted to break my 70/80 in good before I considered any speaker changes. I have a 5153 412 with the G12M's in them and have been holding myself off from hooking it up. Needed to know how the 70/80 will do especially when I take the amp out to play. 

The reason I got the combo was to have a grab and go amp I didn't need to pack my bigger cabs with. So my goal will be to set this amp up as good as I can within reason. I still will eventually up grade OT and add choke. Speaker choice will play a big part and who knows I may just stay with the 70/80. I'll be able to sample other speakers right here at home without buying any and watch what you guys find is good.


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> I believe all reverb-equipped newer DSL's use the same digital reverb board and circuit.
> 
> None are very 'strong' in my opinion...



Maybe all of us that want a better reverb should write to Marshall and give them a very thoughtful and grammatically correct request for them to release a new, upgraded board that we could install. I haven't yet cracked my case but I gather there's just one plug attached to the board. Unplug the old one, plug in the new one. There's enough reverb for my every day use, but damn, the one in my Blackstar HT-40 did some really strange things when I shut everything else off and just ran the reverb cranked all the way over. It was fun to experiment with. I'd love for my Marshall to have the same capability. -Rod-


----------



## Micky

USAPatriot said:


> Maybe all of us that want a better reverb should write to Marshall and give them a very thoughtful and grammatically correct request for them to release a new, upgraded board that we could install.



Yeah, good luck with that. I don't think they listen much to users...
If past practice is any indicator...

Anyway, the reverb board connects with a couple (I think, haven't looked underneath...) multi-pin connectors. The actual board itself is not diagrammed in the schematic, so we are at their mercy.

In the DSL5c there is NO reverb, so I guess I don't miss it too much. I am still searching for a reverb/delay pedal, but the Boss RE-20 is kinda expensive...


----------



## Coronado

ToneWarrior said:


> I'm a new poster around here, I usually don't reply I just read so I don't know how many of you caught my review of the amp but in it I said I would keep it stock for at least a year. Well I have a 1960BX with Greenbacks in it and just out of curiosity I plugged it in the DSL40 and WOW!!
> 
> It's a completely different amp going through that cabinet which made me realize that all the harshness that people complain about is definitely in the stock speaker. The fact that it's a 1x12 and the cabinet is a 4x12 is going to make a huge difference but I can tell those of you that don't have the opportunity to play the amp through a 4x12 there's nothing wrong with the amp as it comes out of the box. I have a V30, G12T 75 and a Creamback 65 that I'm going to try out in the amp.
> 
> Does anyone have any experience in breaking in speakers other than playing it in the amp? Can I hook it up to a stereo and blast the shit out of it? I'm curious what the 70/80 will sound like broken in but after hearing the amp with different speakers I don't feel much like taking the time to break it in.


 
I recently swapped my 70/80 for a V30. I had the same questions regarding what is the best way to break in a new speaker, so I checked out the Celestion website. From what I read, they recommend playing through the new speaker as the best means of breaking it in (vs. running a stereo through it, or a bass guitar, for example). The site said to add plenty of bass to your EQ and play _"chunky chords"._ I started off on the clean channel for a while, fairly lower volume, and then worked my way up over a few hours of playing into more volume. Eventually added more gain, and more volume. I'm definitely no expert - others may have quicker ways for breaking in a new speaker. This is just what the website said works well. Best of luck!


----------



## broomy

Well, it's been 3 months and i'm loving this amp so i'll explain what I've learnt-

Replacing V1 and v2 with JJEEC83S helped a lot. Less hiss more balls.

20w mode sounds waaaay better than 40w mode. I play in a four piece indie/rock band and a five piece classic rock band and 20w mode on volumes of 4-6 has been plenty loud enough with smoother breakup. 40w mode is too full on, unless you're outside or in a stadium!

I've been jamming twice a week with the bands, played at least once a week at home and gigged 3 times since buying the amp and I have to say, speaker break-in is beginning to get noticeable- it doesn't seem as harsh anymore....still very very trebley but not as shocking as before.......maybe my ears have broken in! but may be the speaker, I have the faith....

I usually play a 96 epi Sheraton but recently after a string break picked up my old 97 epi LP 100 bag of shit and it sounded really sweet through it- warmer with slightly less gain...

Settings- Crunch- Gain 3-8 Volume 4-6....Ultra- (Lead 2) Gain 1-2 Volume 4-6. Bass 10 Middle 10 Treble 0-3(maybe 5-6 on crunch channel)
All on 20w mode.

I use a Marshall Bluesbreaker II pedal on boost setting with Volume on 4-5 to use for solos etc, sounds pretty damn sweet....

Oh and **** the c19 mod and all that shit, i'm sure Marshall know what they're doing. I have faith in the speaker break-in......or me getting a cab.

I'm still learning this amp really, but that's the score so far!

As a lead guitarist, I do not regret buying this amp.


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> Yeah, good luck with that. I don't think they listen much to users...
> If past practice is any indicator...
> 
> Anyway, the reverb board connects with a couple (I think, haven't looked underneath...) multi-pin connectors. The actual board itself is not diagrammed in the schematic, so we are at their mercy.
> 
> In the DSL5c there is NO reverb, so I guess I don't miss it too much. I am still searching for a reverb/delay pedal, but the Boss RE-20 is kinda expensive...



I understand, Micky, but then again, if we don't say something to them, for sure they won't deal with it. So it doesn't cost us a thing to give it a shot. 5 minutes of our time, or less. I'm doing it. Also sending you a PM. -Rod-


----------



## ToneWarrior

Ok, I tried 4 different speakers in the amp. The stock speaker 70/80, Creamback 65, G12T 75 and Vintage 30. I realize that in the short time I had the speakers in the amp isn't really enough to get a good opinion. I was looking for that initial wow factor. I also ran it through my 1960BX which I loved but I'm looking for a speaker that I can use the amp as 1x12 which is the reason I bought it. If I wanted to use a 4x12 I wouldn't have bought it.

Starting with the V30 which I'm not a fan of was no surprised was my least favorite in the amp. It was on par with the stock speaker and if it came with the amp and I couldn't afford to buy another one I could live with it. But no wow factor for me.

The next least favorite was the G12T 75. I couldn't really decide which I liked the least between the stock speaker and this one but since the G12T is 21 years old I gave the edge to the stock. However the G12T was at it's best on the Ultra Gain Channel and beat the stock speaker and Vintage 30 hands down. If you're in to the new metal stuff with the scooped mids and you own this amp - I would suggest the G12T 75 as the go to speaker.

The next speaker is the stock speaker. My first experience with the speaker was when I tried the amp for the first time. I had read reviews that the amp was bright so I was a little skeptical as to what it was going to sound like. Playing the amp for the first time I was surprised at the bottom end it had based solely on the fact that I was expecting a bright amp. The speaker is brand new so I can't really get a feel of what it's going to sound like. However comparing it to the other speakers it is the lightest and has the smallest magnet. It seems cheaply made compared to the others and after hearing the amp with other speakers I won't be staying with it. It'll be a while before I can buy the speaker I want for it so I have sometime to break it in and get a better feel for it and how it breaks in.

And finally my favorite the Creamback 65. Actually the Greenback is my favorite but these Creamback are as good as those but at a higher rating. The Creamback in the DSL40C is IMO the go to speaker for those of us that love that classic rock tone. It's hard for me to give a unbiased opinion using this speaker but by my ears this speaker greatly improved the amp and makes it a usable 1x12 grab and go amp that I wanted. I will admit that the G12T did sound better in the Ultra Gain channel for metal tones but my Creambacks are only a year old and the G12T is 21 years old. 

Over all if it were me based on the speakers I have I'd have to choose between the G12T 75 and the Creamback. The only other decision I would have to make is whether to get a Creamback 65 or 75. I've never played through a Creamback 75. I would also consider a Greenback and keep the amp on 20 watts. But in the end it's the Creamback for me.


----------



## bman

Hi guys. I just returned my DSL15c today for its big bro the 40c. I have to say it was a wise choice. Not only does the extra head room come in handy but the crunch switch on channel 1 makes it more versatile.


----------



## Pumpkin88

I've been using the ultra gain channel a lot more lately, never realized how versatile it is until recently (I've owned the amp for over a year mind you ). I had been considering another pedal for just a pure OD type sound, becasue this amp does take well to pedals, but came to the conclusion you don't need one with this amp. The ultra channel has more than enough gain and volume to offer. Lower the volume and/or tone knobs on the guitar and you get some nice dynamic OD sounds. Very cool stuff.


----------



## MarshallDog

ToneWarrior said:


> Ok, I tried 4 different speakers in the amp. The stock speaker 70/80, Creamback 65, G12T 75 and Vintage 30. I realize that in the short time I had the speakers in the amp isn't really enough to get a good opinion. I was looking for that initial wow factor. I also ran it through my 1960BX which I loved but I'm looking for a speaker that I can use the amp as 1x12 which is the reason I bought it. If I wanted to use a 4x12 I wouldn't have bought it.
> 
> Starting with the V30 which I'm not a fan of was no surprised was my least favorite in the amp. It was on par with the stock speaker and if it came with the amp and I couldn't afford to buy another one I could live with it. But no wow factor for me.
> 
> The next least favorite was the G12T 75. I couldn't really decide which I liked the least between the stock speaker and this one but since the G12T is 21 years old I gave the edge to the stock. However the G12T was at it's best on the Ultra Gain Channel and beat the stock speaker and Vintage 30 hands down. If you're in to the new metal stuff with the scooped mids and you own this amp - I would suggest the G12T 75 as the go to speaker.
> 
> The next speaker is the stock speaker. My first experience with the speaker was when I tried the amp for the first time. I had read reviews that the amp was bright so I was a little skeptical as to what it was going to sound like. Playing the amp for the first time I was surprised at the bottom end it had based solely on the fact that I was expecting a bright amp. The speaker is brand new so I can't really get a feel of what it's going to sound like. However comparing it to the other speakers it is the lightest and has the smallest magnet. It seems cheaply made compared to the others and after hearing the amp with other speakers I won't be staying with it. It'll be a while before I can buy the speaker I want for it so I have sometime to break it in and get a better feel for it and how it breaks in.
> 
> And finally my favorite the Creamback 65. Actually the Greenback is my favorite but these Creamback are as good as those but at a higher rating. The Creamback in the DSL40C is IMO the go to speaker for those of us that love that classic rock tone. It's hard for me to give a unbiased opinion using this speaker but by my ears this speaker greatly improved the amp and makes it a usable 1x12 grab and go amp that I wanted. I will admit that the G12T did sound better in the Ultra Gain channel for metal tones but my Creambacks are only a year old and the G12T is 21 years old.
> 
> Over all if it were me based on the speakers I have I'd have to choose between the G12T 75 and the Creamback. The only other decision I would have to make is whether to get a Creamback 65 or 75. I've never played through a Creamback 75. I would also consider a Greenback and keep the amp on 20 watts. But in the end it's the Creamback for me.



+1 on those Creamback 65s, I feel the same way about them


----------



## ToneWarrior

MarshallDog said:


> +1 on those Creamback 65s, I feel the same way about them



I hate to be a stickler but I noticed a couple of errors in your signature.

1. You spelled Alvarez wrong.
2. I could be wrong about this but I don't think there's such a thing as a 1936 4x12.


----------



## MarshallDog

ToneWarrior said:


> I hate to be a stickler but I noticed a couple of errors in your signature.
> 
> 1. You spelled Alvarez wrong.
> 2. I could be wrong about this but I don't think there's such a thing as a 1936 4x12.



Thanks for the heads up on the miss-spelling of Alvarez, didn't notice that. The 2X12 I have is a Marshall 1936 Lead model.


----------



## Coronado

Hey guys, it’s been a while since I read through this whole thread, and I can’t remember if we talked about the various pedals you like to use with your DSL40? If so, my apologies. If we have not already covered this, what are the various OD pedals, or any other pedal you have liked to use with your DSL40? As I mentioned before, SolarBurn turned me on to some really cool preamp tubes, and I recently changed my speaker and power tubes. So, I've been playing around with the new sounds, so lately I’ve been using my OD pedals much less. BUT, I love pedals and I like to try different sounds. Any favorites?

Here are the current pedals I like to run with the DSL40: Guitar into a MXR Super Comp, OCD, Wampler Sovereign, TS9 (modded), SD-1, MXR Phaser, MXR 10 band EQ, Crybaby Wah, Tuner, then to amp (sometimes run the Decimator II in there). In the loop, I have a Boss Super Chorus, Hall of Fame reverb, then a MXR Carbon Copy, then to the effects loop return (sometimes run the MXR EQ in the loop).

For the OD pedals, each one sound different. I use each one for different sounds. I've recently been using the TS9 as a volume boost, and even back to halfway on the volume since the amp only needs a little bit of a boost. The OCD and SD-1 are definitely brighter OD pedals. The Sovereign is a cool pedal and has that classic rock sound - I really only use this on the green channel (sounds best on the classic channel). 

On the clean channel with no gain, I love to use a little extra reverb from the Hall of Fame (it has tons of options), and I'm still getting familiar with the Carbon Copy delay. Super Chorus sounds great. 

I don’t really care too much for the MXR Phaser to be honest. Adds a bit too much gain at times, can’t really hear the effects as much as I would like, and only has one knob - how fast you want the effect. 

What are you guys using, and what do you recommend in the DSL40?
Thanks!
Ray


----------



## bman

I have two JJ ECC83 S tubes and two Tong-Sol 12ax7 Re-issue tubes. Can someone suggest to me what valve position to place these in. Just looking for a slightly better overall gain tone. Hoping for something a little warmer and dynamic.


----------



## MarshallDog

bman said:


> I have two JJ ECC83 S tubes and two Tong-Sol 12ax7 Re-issue tubes. Can someone suggest to me what valve position to place these in. Just looking for a slightly better overall gain tone. Hoping for something a little warmer and dynamic.



I have tried all of these tubes myself. For a warmer tone, I would go with the JJ's in V1 & V2 and use the Tong-Sols in V3 & V4. If that's too warm/dark, you could then try something like a JJ in V1, Tong-Sol in V2, JJ in V3 and Tong-Sol in V4 or any other combo. The JJ's will be the warmest out of these and V1 and V2 should have the most affect on tone based on my experiences...


----------



## Micky

I keep JJ's and Tung-Sols for spares.


----------



## bman

Dont like opening the back of my cab any more than I have to....Looking for advice on my pretubes. I'm thinking tung-sol in 1 and 2 and jj in 3 and 4. Any other advice is welcome!


----------



## bman

What do you suggest for preamp tubes?


----------



## tjnugent

Does the C19 Bright Cap Mod effect the clean channel at all? I see a lot of people posting about how it effects being able to switch between the channels, but I primarily use the clean side channel. Any thoughts?

TJ


----------



## tjnugent

I am testing a WGS Reaper 30 in my 40c right now, but I see a lot of people like the V30. 

Any thoughts on the WGS ET65 for this amp?

TJ


----------



## Micky

tjnugent said:


> Does the C19 Bright Cap Mod effect the clean channel at all? I see a lot of people posting about how it effects being able to switch between the channels, but I primarily use the clean side channel. Any thoughts?
> 
> TJ



Nope it only affects the Ultra OD1 channel.
It seems to even out the EQ when switching between channels.


----------



## Gary Nelson

tjnugent said:


> Does the C19 Bright Cap Mod effect the clean channel at all? I see a lot of people posting about how it effects being able to switch between the channels, but I primarily use the clean side channel. Any thoughts?
> 
> TJ



no it affects the second channel only, but be prepared when you do the MOD it makes the second channel more bassy and slightly muddy.


----------



## MarshallDog

tjnugent said:


> Does the C19 Bright Cap Mod effect the clean channel at all? I see a lot of people posting about how it effects being able to switch between the channels, but I primarily use the clean side channel. Any thoughts?
> 
> TJ



The C19 mod does wonders. As Micky state, it evens out the EQ and takes away the high gain fizz. I did not experience any additional bass or muuddiness. I did end up putting in a 100 pF cap in this slot as I found no cap at all made it a little to dark for me.


----------



## lordquilton

bman said:


> What do you suggest for preamp tubes?



I had Marty send me some NOS tubes. For positions 2&4, these are better than current production preamp tubes in my experience.

I still prefer the stock tube in V1, and I have tried these tubes in that position-
Mullard NOS (early 60's)
Tung Sol 12AX7
Electroharmonix 12AX7EH. (High Gain)

The old Mullard was great, but lacked definition on the lower strings/frets. Amazingly warm and bell-like clean tones.

The Tung Sol was okay. The mids were somewhat missing in that tube. On leads, the sound reminded me of when you set the height of your pickups too high- plenty of gain but a loss of clarity and character. Maybe recommend them to super high gain metal players. Cleans were sort of stiff and sterile? Maybe neutral is a better word here.

I ordered Electroharmonix 12AX7EH in a high gain tube. For what I want in V1, that may have been a mistake. I like this tube though, nice cleans, good mids and highs. Warm and balanced, plenty of bass. I think the high gain one I got made things just a tad harsh. But maybe harsh is your thing?

I haven't tried any JJ's. My understanding is the stock preamp tubes are JJ's. You should try a JJ in V1 and leave the rest stock, I'd be_ really_ interested to know what the difference is.

Seeing as how you already have JJ's and Tung Sol's, my first recommendation would be to try the 12AX7EH. I think it would be a good tube in any position. If you're feeling adventurous try some new old stock tubes.
I love how they sound in positions 2,3 and 4 on my DSL40C, nothing made today really compares.
What I think you'll find overall is you just have to buy tubes and try them, 
words just don't give you a really meaningful idea of their differences.


----------



## solarburn

I wonder if the stock tubes are these...?

Ruby 7025SS HG - 12AX7 / ECC83 / 7025 - Preamp Tubes


----------



## solarburn

As far as pedals Coronado I settled on my Rook OD for the Crunch boost and then I use delay in the loop. I like my Badmonkey and Plexitone Single on the Crunch too but the Rook can be a bit more neutral. All of mine are good though. I have the MXR 10 band as well but it fine tunes my OR15 in the loop.

I don't use any pedals on the Red side.


----------



## lordquilton

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I wonder if the stock tubes are these...?
> 
> Ruby 7025SS HG - 12AX7 / ECC83 / 7025 - Preamp Tubes



No Solar, the JJ ECC83S has _really_ short plates on it, as does the Marshall.
Same "star" shaped insulating plates too. Virtually identical getter as well.
The main difference visually is the Marshall has silver chrome plates.

Found this-

RTA001 « Thermal Relief Design

In the first paragraph he talks about how some ECC83S are too noisy for V1.
Hence the red paint dot on the top of the V1 tube in your DSL40C,
meaning it tested good for that position(?)
I think Marty was absolutely right, the stock Marshall pre in this amp is a JJ ECC83S made specifically for Marshall. A darker plate color helps dissipate heat away from the filament/cathode/grid, so _maybe_ the JJ might last a little longer than the Marshall. I don't know.

I also saw (what may have been a rumor) that the ECC83S used for the gold pin treatment are from the tubes testing in the top 10% at the factory. 

Gonna try a Ruby when the pocket money builds up a little more!
Sorry for the long post, but I didn't get to play my amp today


----------



## solarburn

Gotcha.

I still like the stock V1 tube. Wouldn't mind having a couple more just like it.


----------



## Coronado

tjnugent said:


> Does the C19 Bright Cap Mod effect the clean channel at all? I see a lot of people posting about how it effects being able to switch between the channels, but I primarily use the clean side channel. Any thoughts?
> 
> TJ


 
I was planning to do the C19 mod until I changed the speaker and preamp tubes. The changes I made immediately toned down the brightness of the amp. If I did the C19 mod now, for my likes, it would be a llittle too much. The nice thing about this mod is that you can fairly easily switch it back if you dont like the sound. From what i have read, a lot of people that have made the switch are happy with how it sounds.


----------



## Coronado

lordquilton said:


> I had Marty send me some NOS tubes. For positions 2&4, these are better than current production preamp tubes in my experience.
> 
> I still prefer the stock tube in V1, and I have tried these tubes in that position-
> Mullard NOS (early 60's)
> Tung Sol 12AX7
> Electroharmonix 12AX7EH. (High Gain)
> 
> The old Mullard was great, but lacked definition on the lower strings/frets. Amazingly warm and bell-like clean tones.
> 
> The Tung Sol was okay. The mids were somewhat missing in that tube. On leads, the sound reminded me of when you set the height of your pickups too high- plenty of gain but a loss of clarity and character. Maybe recommend them to super high gain metal players. Cleans were sort of stiff and sterile? Maybe neutral is a better word here.
> 
> I ordered Electroharmonix 12AX7EH in a high gain tube. For what I want in V1, that may have been a mistake. I like this tube though, nice cleans, good mids and highs. Warm and balanced, plenty of bass. I think the high gain one I got made things just a tad harsh. But maybe harsh is your thing?
> 
> I haven't tried any JJ's. My understanding is the stock preamp tubes are JJ's. You should try a JJ in V1 and leave the rest stock, I'd be_ really_ interested to know what the difference is.
> 
> Seeing as how you already have JJ's and Tung Sol's, my first recommendation would be to try the 12AX7EH. I think it would be a good tube in any position. If you're feeling adventurous try some new old stock tubes.
> I love how they sound in positions 2,3 and 4 on my DSL40C, nothing made today really compares.
> What I think you'll find overall is you just have to buy tubes and try them,
> words just don't give you a really meaningful idea of their differences.


 
Great descriptions! Thanks for the review. 

Compared to many of the forum members, I have less experience being able to differentiate between tubes at times. Some folks can hear the subtle differences right away. In your experience with different preamp tubes, what sound (clean channel, mid-high gain, high volume, etc..) would you say is the best when you really want to compare the differences between tubes? I imagine it depends on the tube, but what do you begin with when comparing tubes?

Thanks so much for the feedback!


----------



## bman

Thanks for the feedback. I found the tung-sol to sound the best in valves 1 and 2. Tighter and more 3d type sound. Talking to people at The Tube Depot.com and The Tube Store. com....Both places told me the tung-sol re-issue are the best sounding tubes on the market right now under $20 bucks a piece. I have to say I am quite pleased. Noticed the difference after striking just one chord.


----------



## lordquilton

Coronado said:


> Great descriptions! Thanks for the review.
> 
> Compared to many of the forum members, I have less experience being able to differentiate between tubes at times. Some folks can hear the subtle differences right away. In your experience with different preamp tubes, what sound (clean channel, mid-high gain, high volume, etc..) would you say is the best when you really want to compare the differences between tubes? I imagine it depends on the tube, but what do you begin with when comparing tubes?
> 
> Thanks so much for the feedback!


I always start on green crunch because I spend most of my time there. Warm up the amp and your hands with your current tubes so you have a baseline fresh in your ears. Play the riffs that excite you on this amp on the channel/mode you most often use. Then put in the new guy and play the same riffs. What's different, and is it a difference that feels positive or negative? That's my basic recommendation.

So for example when I tried the Tung Sol in V1, crunch chords sounded less crunchy. Yes, it was _subtle_. It's like you can feel it through your fingers somehow, that there was something missing compared to the stock tube I was just playing. No matter how much I attacked the string, it just wasn't "biting back".

Playing around a bit, it was obvious the tube wasn't lacking in gain compared to the stock; so I concluded that the midrange response of the Tung Sol was different. On the other hand, thumping a low E power chord made it obvious that the bass on that tube was quite forward and aggressive. The top end is the same, so the result is that 3D sound.

So that's one aspect, how the tube responds to being driven. If you never play clean, then your done. The more you drive a tube into distortion though, the more they sound the same because the sound wave is getting squared off. So if you really want to characterize a preamp tube, you have to hear it super clean in my opinion. I find that going back and forth between super clean and crunchy helps me define what an individual tube is actually doing over the whole spectrum.


----------



## lordquilton

P.S.- If you want to try and fine tune your ear before splashing out on tubes,
try this- 

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AFW2-zdSyY"]12AX7 SHOOTOUT CLEAN FENDER TONES - YouTube[/ame]

Good speakers/headphones help. Listen with your eyes closed like three times in a row to get an idea of what each tube does.
Bear in mind this is a Fender type amp, it will be a bit different in the DSL. Conveniently, the Tung Sol and a JJ are at the start back to back.
This video was part of the reason I tried a Tung Sol, it sounds good for the price here. In practice I found I prefer a warmer tube for DSL cleans.


----------



## Skylarkpilot

Ok, my modding is nearly done. R111 chopped and replaced with a Classic Tone choke and the OT replaced with a Classic Tone 50W (pics to follow shortly). New side handles going in tomorrow as she's now just a bit overweight, but what the heck I like 'em Rubenesque.
TAD EL34bSTR power tubes, TAD Premium 'Mullard' style in V1 and EH12AX7 selected for V1 quality everywhere else, speaker swapped to a Celestion 'Classic Lead'. It's a DSL40/50C 'GT' now !
Regarding the C19 chop, is it possible to just cut one leg and then solder in a switch so that you can have it or not, or would that not work for some reason ? Seems an easy answer to the use/don't use issue.
She's rattlin' the windows now guys, if I ever go into cardiac arrest just pop round, lean me up against the opposite wall and start playing rock, the chest compressions ought to bring me right around !


----------



## USAPatriot

Skylarkpilot said:


> Ok, my modding is nearly done. R111 chopped and replaced with a Classic Tone choke and the OT replaced with a Classic Tone 50W (pics to follow shortly). New side handles going in tomorrow as she's now just a bit overweight, but what the heck I like 'em Rubenesque.
> TAD EL34bSTR power tubes, TAD Premium 'Mullard' style in V1 and EH12AX7 selected for V1 quality everywhere else, speaker swapped to a Celestion 'Classic Lead'. It's a DSL40/50C 'GT' now !
> Regarding the C19 chop, is it possible to just cut one leg and then solder in a switch so that you can have it or not, or would that not work for some reason ? Seems an easy answer to the use/don't use issue.
> She's rattlin' the windows now guys, if I ever go into cardiac arrest just pop round, lean me up against the opposite wall and start playing rock, the chest compressions ought to bring me right around !



I'm looking forward to seeing your photos and your assessment of what you gained...pun intended  Regarding the switch for C-19, it will work but though I don't have the background to show why, it's also going to be slightly different than just having C19 there or not there. The added resistance of the wire and switch has to have some effect, but being an electronics dummy, no way could I quantify it. No doubt there's an equation that predicts the end result though not when it comes to the tone. Myself, I've been pondering the idea of using an old-style TV tuner to temporarily add some variable capacitance. The gizmos are out there, one rated at 0-220pf which would work great in theory, and they are cheap too. It would function as an on/off switch for C-19 and then some, allowing for values between 0 and 220pf. Question is, realistically, what's to be gained by it? There'd need to be a method to monitor the value, whether it's a gauge or LED lights showing the visual equivalent of a scale of values., whatever. There's also the question of C-20. It's there for a reason, with a similar function to C-19, just on the other channel. Has anyone tinkered with it? Sometimes it's question of need, whether or not these things ever get looked into. -Rod-


----------



## Straydog

solarburnDSL50 said:


> You know what I have noticed about the 70/80 which is still in mine?
> 
> If I move off axis a certain amount I pick some harsh upper mid frequencies and lows disappear. Now it's not real bad but it's noticeable. I find the amps sweet spot in front of it but back a few paces. No weird mid harshness. It's a combo so there will be a certain amount of direction focused tone where it sounds good...not so good when moving away to the side. This has happened with all my tube preamp combinations I've used in it although the darker or smoother V1 or V2 is...the less it happens. I'm just gonna chalk this up to speaker direction related frequency zones haha.
> 
> Have you checked the bias lately to see where it is at? Be a good thing to rule out as a contributing factor. Preamp tube changes are cheaper than speaker and I would just concentrate on V1 & V2. More cost effective as a starting point. These 2 slots make the biggest difference.
> 
> Have you tried turning the mids down? Where are your settings that you liked when it sounded good? Pick up height can be adjusted for its own sweet spot. My bridge pup has strong mids and you can really hear them change with height adjustment. To me the amp has strong upper mids so finding a sweet spot using my guitar with mid laden pick ups takes some tuning. I've found some shit zones with harsh mids instead of musical pleasing ones. Working with what I like and getting it all to mix and play nice.
> 
> So to be correct...your friend thought his LP sounded like a twangy guitar? Meaning there is maybe upper frequencies making it sound that way or the upper mids are missing? Just thinking here... the reason I ask is one of my guitar playing buddies thought I was using a single coil guitar instead of my humbucker. It's was a recording using this amp. My first clip here with it straight out of the box.


 
I haven't checked bias as the amp is brand new. When I first brought it home my friend played his Les Paul Studio through it and found a really nice sound he liked. I took pictures of the settings so we would remember them. After I played it for while with my Les Paul 60's Tribute and reading this and other boards about the speaker changes people were making I thought I would try that. After changing to the Creamback we each played our guitars on our favorite settings. I still like the setting I liked before for classic crunchiness. The Creamback did clean up the bottom and took some of the trebly "noise" away that guys talk about. It also took away some of the upper mids. I can live with that but with my buddie's Studio he can't find a sweet spot now. We used the settings from the pictures I took that first day and he says it's much different now. Our guitars have different pickups also. My Burstbuckers sound good to me with some amp tweaking. Maybe it's just his 490-498 pickups making that much difference. Or his ears? Or MY ears? LOL! Of course since it's my amp I, I will stick with the Creamback for now and break it in some more. I still love the amp.


----------



## ToneWarrior

I couldn't wait so I upgraded the speaker to a Creamback 75. If you're a little short on cash as I am Sweetwater will let you pay in payments.

So after upgrading the speaker and playing it for the last 4 hours non stop. (I only stopped because I'm hungry.) Here's my review;

From My Cold Dead Hands!


----------



## USAPatriot

wangchung said:


> Hey 74;
> Red dot....I'm guessin' screening for microphonics primarily, but high output
> and balance between sides is desirable for V1 too. A "quality" tube.



Question: Does anyone's V1 have more than one dot? Just looking through the back, mine's got two at least. I'd planned on taking the chassis out today but with thunderstorms going on, bad idea to have it on and testing it.

Also, now that I think about it, I have ~ 1/2 dozen Tungsol 12AX7's, at least one GT (says Fender on it), a couple of JJ's in different 12AX7 configurations and two EH EL84's. If someone has a DSL's V1 "red dot" tube with no issues that they've taken out and don't plan on using, I'd be interested in trades. Oh, there's a small handful of china made 12AX7's as well. I'd like to collect 3 more, actually. Oh, I have a pair of TAD EL84's as well. One is microphonic, one not. I don't know which is which so you'd get them both. To the best of my knowledge, NONE of the 12AX7's or the 2 EL84's have any issues. PM me if you wanna talk about a trade. USA only please. -Rod-


----------



## JEB

Skylarkpilot said:


> Regarding the C19 chop, is it possible to just cut one leg and then solder in a switch so that you can have it or not, or would that not work for some reason ?



I put a 3-way switch in mine across C19. I have a 470pf, 100pf and open for the 3 positions. Rarely do I use any position but open, but I have them if I want them.


----------



## tjnugent

I just bought a DSL40C and I love the way it sounds, but there is a 60 cycle hum even when there isn't a cable plugged into the amp. This is not a ground loop issue, and it isn't a tube issue. I have swapped out all of the pre-amp tubes and it is still there. 

From what I understand there are two trim pots inside the amp. One is to dial in the bias and the other is a hum trim pot. 

Has anyone had this issue and used that trim pot to remove the hum? When I say hum, it isn't loud, but it is there. No amp that I have owned in the last couple of years has made this type of hum. I am wondering if it would work to use that trim pot to try to dial it out. 

Anyone?

TJ


----------



## USAPatriot

tjnugent said:


> I just bought a DSL40C and I love the way it sounds, but there is a 60 cycle hum even when there isn't a cable plugged into the amp. This is not a ground loop issue, and it isn't a tube issue. I have swapped out all of the pre-amp tubes and it is still there.
> 
> From what I understand there are two trim pots inside the amp. One is to dial in the bias and the other is a hum trim pot.
> 
> Has anyone had this issue and used that trim pot to remove the hum? When I say hum, it isn't loud, but it is there. No amp that I have owned in the last couple of years has made this type of hum. I am wondering if it would work to use that trim pot to try to dial it out.
> 
> Anyone?
> 
> TJ



What channel is it happening on? Classic, Ultra, or both? Is it louder in one than the other? Or the same? You mentioned that you swapped the preamp tubes but didn't seem to consider a power tube? With a guitar plugged in, does it go away, or greatly diminish, if you grab the cable jack? Have you checked to make sure the speaker jack is fully inserted? Pull it out some and push it back in. Make sure it's in the correct jack...it'll be the one that says 16 Ohms, assuming you're using the combo's cabinet speaker, that is. Look at the simple things first. -Rod-


----------



## tjnugent

It happens on all channels. It is the same at high gain as it is with clean. I have a Vox AC15 sitting right next to it at home and at gig and the Vox is dead silent. The cable is fine, as confirmed by plugging the same cable into the Vox without any hum. The speaker Jack is fully inserted. I have looked at every possible issue on the outside of the amp. I am wondering if there is an inside solution. Maybe a bias issue from the factory. I was wrong about the right trim pot being a hum adjustment. Several members have said that I am mistaken about this. I easily accept being wrong. I read it somewhere, not sure where. But that doesn't matter. Just trying to get to the bottom of all this. 

TJ


----------



## tjnugent

All my guitars have noiseless pickups as well.


----------



## Dizzyg12

tjnugent said:


> I just bought a DSL40C and I love the way it sounds, but there is a 60 cycle hum even when there isn't a cable plugged into the amp. This is not a ground loop issue, and it isn't a tube issue. I have swapped out all of the pre-amp tubes and it is still there.
> 
> From what I understand there are two trim pots inside the amp. One is to dial in the bias and the other is a hum trim pot.
> 
> Has anyone had this issue and used that trim pot to remove the hum? When I say hum, it isn't loud, but it is there. No amp that I have owned in the last couple of years has made this type of hum. I am wondering if it would work to use that trim pot to try to dial it out.
> 
> Anyone?
> 
> TJ




Have you tried the amp in a different outlet or location? Perhaps trying a different power cord as well?


----------



## Micky

tjnugent said:


> From what I understand there are two trim pots inside the amp. One is to dial in the bias and the other is a hum trim pot.TJ



This is incorrect.

The DSL40c does NOT have a hum trim pot. Both pots are bias pots.
The left pot sets the bias on the right tube measured on the right pin.
The right pot sets the bias on the left tube measured on the left pin.

On the DSL100h each pot controls a pair of tubes.


----------



## tjnugent

Thank you for setting me straight on this... Do you think it could be a power tube bias issue from the factory? I have trouble shot this with every combination of cables plugs in different places and it is the same everywhere. I don't even have to have a cable plugged into the amp to hear it and it will definitely effect recording and it drives our sound man nuts. Me too.


----------



## Micky

But do you have the volumes and other controls at zero?


----------



## tjnugent

Yes.. it happens with volumes at zero... while the amp is not in standby mode. With the standby on, it is not there.


----------



## solarburn

tjnugent said:


> Thank you for setting me straight on this... Do you think it could be a power tube bias issue from the factory? I have trouble shot this with every combination of cables plugs in different places and it is the same everywhere. I don't even have to have a cable plugged into the amp to hear it and it will definitely effect recording and it drives our sound man nuts. Me too.



It very well could be a power tube issue. I've had bad ones induce hum. Do you have other power tubes to try? A lot of us do to trouble shoot our tube amps. It's good to have them around for occasions just like this.

So you could try different power tubes or get a replacement DSL40C. You just bought this one right?


----------



## tjnugent

I just bought this one. I do have a set of Mullard's here, but I prefer not to get in there and bias them. I could just pop them in to see if it dissipated. I will get that a shot... If that doesn't work, I will ask for a replacement... 

Thanks


----------



## solarburn

ToneWarrior said:


> I couldn't wait so I upgraded the speaker to a Creamback 75. If you're a little short on cash as I am Sweetwater will let you pay in payments.
> 
> So after upgrading the speaker and playing it for the last 4 hours non stop. (I only stopped because I'm hungry.) Here's my review;
> 
> From My Cold Dead Hands!



I'm still laughing when I read this...too funny.


----------



## solarburn

tjnugent said:


> I just bought this one. I do have a set of Mullard's here, but I prefer not to get in there and bias them. I could just pop them in to see if it dissipated. I will get that a shot... If that doesn't work, I will ask for a replacement...
> 
> Thanks



It really would be best to bias them if you're gonna pop them in. Where did you get the amp? Would it be easy to get a replacement DSL? Easier than biasing...?

I know some don't like to bias and would rather have a tech do it. If that's the case I'd just get a replacement amp. Mine came in perfect working order as I would expect. I do know how to bias and have extra tubes on hand so I would attempt that kind of fix before getting another amp. If you don't another amp may be a good thing to do at this point. Your choice of course.


----------



## USAPatriot

I think it's a tube issue or an output transformer issue. If you bought the amp new online...ZZounds or American Musical, etc. just return it and get a new one. Sorry...it's just the easiest solution. -Rod-


----------



## USAPatriot

solarburnDSL50 said:


> It very well could be a power tube issue. I've had bad ones induce hum. Do you have other power tubes to try? A lot of us do to trouble shoot our tube amps. It's good to have them around for occasions just like this.
> 
> So you could try different power tubes or get a replacement DSL40C. You just bought this one right?



Trouble is, if it's the transformer and not the tubes that're the root cause, then he'd just lose the replacement tubes too, and they aren't "cheap" like the preamp tubes. I'd just send it back if that's an option, as irritating and stressful as that can be...at least for me. On the plus side, most of the large online dealers will ship the replacement as soon as they get confirmation that UPS has the old one in their possession, so only out an amp for 3-4 days instead of 8-10. I HATE waiting... -Rod-


----------



## USAPatriot

tjnugent said:


> I just bought this one. I do have a set of Mullard's here, but I prefer not to get in there and bias them. I could just pop them in to see if it dissipated. I will get that a shot... If that doesn't work, I will ask for a replacement...
> 
> Thanks



I hope the amp didn't just eat those Mullards...


----------



## USAPatriot

Speaking of hum, I've got some hum in my own DSL40C, but only in Ultra...and it goes away when I grab the jack at my guitar. I hate this because I know it's a grounding issue and not necessarily a simple fix. I just noticed it last night...I don't normally use the Ultra side, crunch being more my style. So there it is, a problem that I don't want to deal with. I DO have a specially laid ground wire running from the room to a 6ft rod in the ground outside the house. I had it installed in 2011 when they rebuilt our house after a fire in 2010. But the wire doesn't reach to where the amp is at the moment so I've not had a chance to try it out on the Marshall. Any other ideas? (It's going to be a bit of work to extend that ground wire and find a spot to attach it to the chassis, so looking for something else to try.) Thanks. -Rod-


----------



## Micky

Because it is so easy to bias this amp I often forget this.

Many people are uncomfortable or unfamiliar with working on tube amps.
Tube amps contain lethal amounts of electricity.
That being said, there are those who have no business poking around inside one.

On the other hand, anyone who owns a tube amp should have a spare set of tubes.
Tube amps require a bit more maintenance than solid-state amps.
Anyone unfamiliar or uncomfortable working inside a tube amp should take it to an authorized technician for repair or adjustment. Don't be cheap and take it to someone like your brother-in-law that has a meter to get it checked.

If your amp has a warranty, then use it. New DSL's have a 5-year warranty.
Marshall has that much faith in them in order to do that.

It was never my intent by starting this thread to suggest that everyone modify their amp. There are those who are completely satisfied with the amp the way it sounds straight from the factory. For the majority of owners, no modification is necessary.

Again I must stress, there are lethal amounts of electricity inside tube amplifiers.
If you are unsure about your amp, take it to an authorized tech.
You can email Marshall to find out where the closest authorized repair center is:
marshall.service@marshallamps.us
They are very helpful if you send them a formal email.


----------



## USAPatriot

Unfortunately, in Texas, there's no "authorized" Marshall tech within about 150 miles, if their current map or info is correct. They REALLY need to recruit and train techs at GC's. If GC is good enough to be an authorized dealer, then they should also be required to have a tech on staff that can at least do the basics of amp maintenance under warranty conditions. A bad tube on delivery requires a new set and a bias job. It's far cheaper for all concerned to have someone close by...like a GC...to replace the tubes and bias it versus the cost of shipping it back to the dealer for replacement. They have to send it out to get fixed then they have to sell it for $150 off to the next customer. That discount plus shipping the amp 4 times is a lot of wasted money. Marshall-approved techs at GC would be a good thing for everyone. -Rod-


----------



## solarburn

That's I why I said if it was me because I can trouble shoot. I wasn't sure if Tj can or not. I hope he realised that I separated those 2 approaches or scenarios I wrote about.

If it was a tube what an easy fix and he does have spares. Either way one would know what step to take next. If that didn't do it the warrantee is still intact...simple to get a replacement and the decision could be made in minutes. Also if it was a bad tube I'd get the store to send me a matching set to replace it. As a customer who pays hard earned money I expect to be taken care of...good stores will take care of their customers.

I'm of the mindset that the sooner you learn to bias your own amp the better. Trouble shooting tubes is a necessary evil for tube amp maintenance. I'd rather not get charged money or...voltage. Biasing can be learned and I'd hope people really understand safety is most important. Be sure what you're doing or send it to a tech.


----------



## solarburn

USAPatriot said:


> Trouble is, if it's the transformer and not the tubes that're the root cause, then he'd just lose the replacement tubes too, and they aren't "cheap" like the preamp tubes. I'd just send it back if that's an option, as irritating and stressful as that can be...at least for me. On the plus side, most of the large online dealers will ship the replacement as soon as they get confirmation that UPS has the old one in their possession, so only out an amp for 3-4 days instead of 8-10. I HATE waiting... -Rod-



I'm with you Rod and to be honest it's not such a big ordeal replacing the amp. I've done this many times with lemons. Just a matter of time passing hehe.


----------



## USAPatriot

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I'm with you Rod and to be honest it's not such a big ordeal replacing the amp. I've done this many times with lemons. Just a matter of time passing hehe.



Yeah I've done it 2 or 3 times, but I'm not the patient sort and don't like waiting. That's life though. In the military it was always "hurry up and then wait". Shrug. -Rod-


----------



## USAPatriot

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I'm of the mindset that the sooner you learn to bias your own amp the better. Trouble shooting tubes is a necessary evil for tube amp maintenance. I'd rather not get charged money or...voltage. Biasing can be learned and I'd hope people really understand safety is most important. Be sure what you're doing or send it to a tech.



People really DO need to understand that there's stuff in there that can and will kill you. We don't just warn about it to boost our post count. I make sure my wife knows I'm working on an amp and to check on me every few minutes. The people most at risk are those that have no idea what's going on and those that feel too comfortable and too cocky about what's going on. I had a probe slip off of a test point Summer before last and I about needed a diaper. There's scary stuff in there. When I was a kid I used to let a TV capacitor arc over to my finger. It was kinda of like having your hand on one of those plasma balls. It felt strangely good, that purple-blue arc, and yet made me feel strangely nauseated too. The voltage was probably horrendous...the current only very low...else I'd not be here. Stupid.

Take the chassis out, photograph everything...overall and closeups...put it back together, get some schematics, post the photos, ask questions about what's there. People will be happy to help if they can, and help you understand what to avoid and why. Anyone venturing inside should have a plan and someone to keep an eye on them too, if at all possible. Make sure the chassis is grounded. If there's a short, better it go somewhere else. I have a groundwire in the room that travels 30 feet to a steel rod driven into the ground. One long insulated 12 gauge single wire with no joins. It's a plan! -Rod-


----------



## solarburn

For sure. I respect electricity and I think my fear of it is right sized...meaning I really won't go there unless I'm sure of what I'm doing. Even then shit happens.

I pretty much draw the line at biasing. Due to a chronic health issue I get intermittent tremors in my hands and it's too hard to be tactile in small tight areas such those found in amps. It's hard enough to turn a bias pot without a tremor moving it too much. This is why I use bias probes as opposed to holding a lead to a point to take voltage measurements. I slip off all the time. Sux. 

Anything past biasing and I send the amp to a tech. It's dangerous for me to move around an open amp. No doubts in my head.


----------



## solarburn

tjnugent said:


> I just bought this one. I do have a set of Mullard's here, but I prefer not to get in there and bias them. I could just pop them in to see if it dissipated. I will get that a shot... If that doesn't work, I will ask for a replacement...
> 
> Thanks



Check in and let us know how things go with your amp. Bottom line is you need to enjoy it. Most of us do!


----------



## USAPatriot

solarburnDSL50 said:


> For sure. I respect electricity and I think my fear of it is right sized...meaning I really won't go there unless I'm sure of what I'm doing. Even then shit happens.
> 
> I pretty much draw the line at biasing. Due to a chronic health issue I get intermittent tremors in my hands and it's too hard to be tactile in small tight areas such those found in amps. It's hard enough to turn a bias pot without a tremor moving it too much. This is why I use bias probes as opposed to holding a lead to a point to take voltage measurements. I slip off all the time. Sux.
> 
> Anything past biasing and I send the amp to a tech. It's dangerous for me to move around an open amp. No doubts in my head.



Pretty much the same here, though I think I could do the choke without problems. Beyond that...I'm not looking to fix a problem other than swapping tubes and doing the bias. I'm not going to mess with upgrading caps or transformers or anything like that. Like you, sometimes I get the shakes, it even interferes with my playing about once per week. That's the wrong place to be shaking! -Rod-


----------



## USAPatriot

Well, I solved my grounding issue this evening. I was getting 60 cycle hum in the ultra channel even at low volume. When I grabbed the jack at the guitar, it went away.

I have a 50ft long 12ga solid core wire running from a box in the music room to a 6-foot rod pounded into the ground outside the house. I soldered a short length of 14 gauge braided wire to the in-home end and temporarily attached it to the guitar cable's outer housing at the input jack at the amp. The hum was reduced by at least 90%...barely audible. I'm going to rig a small aircraft style gold plug, one male and one female, to the ground wire and the jack so I can disconnect if I need to unplug the guitar cable from the amp. It saves me the trouble of altering the chassis by drilling a hole and adding a jack or clamp to hold the ground wire, leaving the amp stock. If I ever decide to mod the amp...I'm thinking of a choke...then I could add a clamp to shove the ground wire into on the back of the amp. I love easy, CHEAP solutions  Consider this if you've got a noisy channel when the amp is idling.
-Rod-


----------



## Micky

I would venture to say there is something wrong with the wiring in your house.
Instead of cobbing up the amp, why not correct the ground issue in the house?
Connect the ground in your home electrical system to the ground rod outside.

The DSL40c power cable is wired correctly in that the ground in the IEC power cable is directly attached to the chassis. If the house is grounded properly then the amp will be also. As the guitar ground is tied to the chassis, if you ground the house properly there will be no chance of a ground loop like you describe above.


----------



## Skylarkpilot

As promised ... The fitting photos from my recent OT transplant. The replacement Classic Tone 40-18025. I have to say it was pretty straightforward. Just had to take care when drilling a couple of new holes. Hopefully the Photos appear below 
My major thanks to Micky for helping out with some schematic info and to DSMer from Canada who did it previously

http://[URL=http://s327.photobucket.com/user/Skylarkpilot/media/NewStuff140_zpscbdb034c.jpg.html]

[/URL]
New hole drilled and Jack fitted for the new 4Ohm jack.




Now it's serious....wires chopped !




Mounting holes ...Top left I re-used an existing mounting, top right was an existing hole and I re-used an existing mounting screw and added a locknut and washer underneath the board. The arrowed holes downward are new ones drilled to take new machine screws and washers.




The mountings as will be seen if you peer in from the back.




The new mountings you don't see from the back with two steel washers under each to make up the height from the surface.




The mountings from underneath. Note the locknut bottom right reusing an existing hole. The two new holes nuts and washers above.




How it looks fitted.....mmmmm, nice.




New wiring soldered together and then heat shrink slid over and shrunk. Red to Red (valve 7 pin 3), new Blue to old Brown (valve 8 pin 3), new White to old Grey (CT1 on the circuit board).




And heatshrunk.




Connections made for speaker jacks. Black is Common or Ground to us Brits, and goes back where it came from marked OPTX0 on the circuit board. It also goes to ground on the new 4Ohm jack. Violet is 16Ohm and goes to OPTX16 on the circuit board. Orange is 8Ohm and goes to OPTX8. Yellow is 4Ohm which can either be taped up or goes in my case to the new 4Ohm jack. 




How it looks all fitted back together.

The only issue I came across was that when I first plugged it in and switched it on there was very little sound and it was scratchy and horrible. It was only when I started taking it apart again that I noticed the pentode/triode switch was sitting exactly in the middle so neither one nor the other. After I corrected this all worked as it should.
The increase in power is pretty cool but I haven't really had a chance to experiment other than a few window rattlin' power chords and a quick play of 'Breaking The Law' to check all functioned correctly.


----------



## Skylarkpilot

And the R111 to Classic Tone 40-18058 Choke mod for anyone who's interested....
This was a walk in the park.




How R111 looks as standard. A couple of seconds on each leg with a hot soldering iron had the white lump removed !




The new part fitted. Drilling the two holes requires care as the circuit board is just a couple of inches under neath here. I used a depth gauge strapped to my drill. Then two nice big self tappers with some thread-lock on them.




The two new wires soldered on in it's place. Whole job took about an hour and that included disassembling and reassemling the amp.


----------



## Micky

Very Nice! This is the kinda stuff I love to see in this thread...

We will need more a/b comparison descriptions, of course.
Sound clips if you can.

So now that you have changed the OT and added a choke, have you weighed the beast?


----------



## Skylarkpilot

Hi Micky hahahaha....I can say it's getting a little overweight. Yesterday I added the metal side handles same as you. I think the measuring up for that prior to cutting took about as long as the OT swap !
Thanks again for the help with schematic info. 
Sound clips ? That's going to be another learning curve


----------



## DSMer

You've done a great job there, Sky. Very professional.  

The amp weighs just a bit heavier now for sure but well worth it for the added killer tone.

Here's the difference on the size of the iron.





In regards to my mods, here are the latest:

- Changed all the .022 valued capacitors with Mallory 150's purchased from Granger Amplifications. These are the tone caps, cathode bypass, and coupling caps. 

Retubed with:
- NOS Mullard XF2's
- NOS Sylvania 12AX7s V1-V2
- Marshall branded Chinese ECC83 - V3
- SOVTEK 12AX7XPS - PI

At a multiband gig I had the other day, my DSL40C (now a DSL50H mated to a Marshall 2x12 fitted with Classic Lead 80's ) kicked an Orange stack to the roof. The soundman was so impressed with the tone my amp was putting out and nothing but compliments from other guitarist. 

Here my upside down DSL in a Marshall 3210 amp cabinet.  Badass, EH?


----------



## Rocktane

Marshall should make them available in a head. Great job! Can you get a DSL100H faceplate? Should work with a little trimming on the edges.


----------



## Skylarkpilot

Thanks DSMer for the kind words and, of course, the info before I did the job.
Did you try taking off the Marshall logo and putting it on the other way up ? Then your amp wouldn't be upside down. In any event, that's got to be a first


----------



## DSMer

Skylarkpilot said:


> Thanks DSMer for the kind words and, of course, the info before I did the job.
> Did you try taking off the Marshall logo and putting it on the other way up ? Then your amp wouldn't be upside down. In any event, that's got to be a first


 
You're welcome, bud. I'm glad the info helped. 
I tried putting it the other way but I didn't want to get mistaken as MG from a distance.


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> I would venture to say there is something wrong with the wiring in your house.
> Instead of cobbing up the amp, why not correct the ground issue in the house?
> Connect the ground in your home electrical system to the ground rod outside.
> 
> The DSL40c power cable is wired correctly in that the ground in the IEC power cable is directly attached to the chassis. If the house is grounded properly then the amp will be also. As the guitar ground is tied to the chassis, if you ground the house properly there will be no chance of a ground loop like you describe above.



Micky,

Our house burned down in 2010. When it was rebuilt from the slab up a dedicated ground wire from the "music room" to the outside was a feature I demanded. The foreman installed it himself and I checked it out long before they put up drywall. The electricians came in, did their work according to code and funny thing, I was there when the city inspectors would come through and not one person ever did a continuity check on a single circuit in the house. We failed one inspection when the city showed up and someone hadn't put a cover on an outlet in the kitchen. lol. The guy walked in and walked out and didn't show up again for a week. This is simply the state of the construction industry today. Brand new wiring with "no problems" yet a ground system that's less than perfect, as evidenced by the behavior of the amp. The amp is also likely picking up noise from a nearby computer, the air conditioner, the overhead fan that runs 24/7. There's nothing unusual about a hi gain amp being noisy. Almost all of them are. I could have done the same with a noise gate, but why, when the problem is obvious and inherent to the amp's design and character? I've heard far worse and some better, but it's the nature of the beast. -Rod-


----------



## DSMer

Reversed Neutral and Hot wires in an AC outlet can cause hum as well. Try testing your AC outlet with this:


----------



## USAPatriot

DSMer said:


> Reversed Neutral and Hot wires in an AC outlet can cause hum as well. Try testing your AC outlet with this:



It's a thought...but wouldn't that swap trigger the GFI plug's breaker? I'm not plugged into it but there is one in the circuit, which is "Bdrm1/bath1". The GFI is in the bathroom, as required. Still, I'll hop down to Wally World and pick one up. I've had far more noise come out of lesser amps and lived with it. Fact is, when you play, you don't hear it. But I'm pleased that I've got so much gain on tap with so little idle noise  -Rod-


----------



## Micky

Those outlet testers are priceless!
Your inspector should have plugged one into each outlet.
He also should have tripped each GFI in the house.

Reversed hot/neutral won't trip the GFI, only a fault AFTER the GFI outlet...


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> Those outlet testers are priceless!
> Your inspector should have plugged one into each outlet.
> He also should have tripped each GFI in the house.
> 
> Reversed hot/neutral won't trip the GFI, only a fault AFTER the GFI outlet...



Well I got and used the tester and everything checks out okay. The circuit is fine...there's even a test button on this version that presumably shorts the circuit. It never tripped the tester, did trip the GFI in the bath (supposed to) but not the breaker downstairs, which is good. While I was there at Wally World I got an upgraded power strip to plug into, this one also with an on board ground test, noise reduction, etc. It just cleans up the AC going into the amp and may be less of a burden on the amp's circuits over time. -Rod-


----------



## Micky

New Speaker Day!

Caught a deal that I couldn't refuse.
Eminence Man-O-War 16-ohm, fits perfectly in the DSL40c.
120W speaker and in the first photo the magnet looks HUGE!
(just perspective distortion on a macro lens...)






Looks kinda small in the 40c case:






Sorry for the double post... but felt I HAD to put it here as well...


----------



## Micky

While I had the amp apart, I decided to install t-nuts and machine screws into the case.
Taking the back off and on all the time can strip the holes in the MDF bracing that holds the back on. This MDF is glued to the HDF used for the sides and top. I used the old back screws to drill and screw these MDF pieces on for added strength.

The t-nuts I used were 10-32 machine thread, which just barely fit into the MDF strips on the back of the case. They require a 17/64 drill (I think?) and then the best way to seat them is with an actual screw and washer. Here is a photo:






Makes taking the back off and on much more secure, and when tightened, eliminates any chance for rattle.


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> Sorry for the double post... but felt I HAD to put it here as well...



Question: Does the 70/80 just use 4 screws to hold it? Going to add 2 more to the new speaker? (I STILL have not cracked my case, hence the silly question) 

HNSD! -Rod-


----------



## Micky

USAPatriot said:


> Question: Does the 70/80 just use 4 screws to hold it? Going to add 2 more to the new speaker? (I STILL have not cracked my case, hence the silly question)
> 
> HNSD! -Rod-



Yup.


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> Yup.



Seems like a wise idea. I need to take my stack down and pipe the DSL40C through them. The JCA12S's have "Custom" Eminence speakers. Not sure what that means, if Jet City had them made just for them or what. I suspect that they'll be too bright. It might be better to run just one rather than the pair. We'll see. -Rod-


----------



## USAPatriot

Skylarkpilot said:


> And the R111 to Classic Tone 40-18058 Choke mod for anyone who's interested....
> This was a walk in the park.
> 
> [SNIP]
> 
> The two new wires soldered on in it's place. Whole job took about an hour and that included disassembling and reassemling the amp.



I just ordered the choke a little bit ago. Did you use anything the catch metal shavings from drilling or blow the underside out with air or ??? -Rod-


----------



## Skylarkpilot

Hi Rod, I slid a sheet of kitchen roll paper under the deck whilst I drilled. A depth/stop gauge is a good idea as a slight push too much and you could 'slot' your circuit board underneath. When I'd finished drilling I took the drill bit out of the drill and put it back in the hole at an angle and gently worked it around to remove as much swarf as possible without enlarging the hole. After removing the kitchen roll I did gently vacuum it as well. I also have one of those little circular inspection mirrors on an extendable stick. I placed that carefully under the R111 position, again with a little kitchen roll paper, so that I could see what was happening from the other side whilst soldering from the top. It also caught a drop of solder that went straight through the hole. You just have to be very careful with the mirror as the whole thing is metal and it's really going into the places you don't want your fingers. It all seemed to go quite easily. I was a little wary of putting too much heat into the board but it was fine. Happy soldering !


----------



## Micky

USAPatriot said:


> I just ordered the choke a little bit ago. Did you use anything the catch metal shavings from drilling or blow the underside out with air or ??? -Rod-



Both.


----------



## DSMer

USAPatriot said:


> I just ordered the choke a little bit ago. Did you use anything the catch metal shavings from drilling or blow the underside out with air or ??? -Rod-


 
A piece of ceramic magnet is very handy for catching those metal shavings. I've got a small round one out of a blown 6" car speaker. I wrap it with saran wrap then remove after for easy cleaning after.


----------



## USAPatriot

DSMer said:


> A piece of ceramic magnet is very handy for catching those metal shavings. I've got a small round one out of a blown 6" car speaker. I wrap it with saran wrap then remove after for easy cleaning after.



Great idea! I have a rubberized refrigerator magnet that some insurance company sent me. I think it's 3x4". Putting paper down along with the magnet ought to catch pretty much anything that might rain down. The magnet is very weak but good enough for this. I don't have any drill stops but can get some, but more than likely I'll just clamp a piece of wood underneath and drill into it. It depends on what I see when I get it open. It'd solve the problem of metal shavings too, but it never hurts to be extra-cautious. -Rod-


----------



## Micky

Surprisingly, blue painters tape works pretty well as a drill depth stop.
Wrap a bit arpund at the depth you want the bit to stop at. Try it.

And magnets out of hard drives are probably the strongest you will ever come across...


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> Surprisingly, blue painters tape works pretty well as a drill depth stop.
> Wrap a bit arpund at the depth you want the bit to stop at. Try it.
> 
> And magnets out of hard drives are probably the strongest you will ever come across...



I've got a magnet that came out of an old style platter drive. It sort of looks like a brake pad, only smaller. VERY strong! Good idea on the tape and we just happen to have a roll, thanks. 
-Rod-


----------



## tjnugent

Was there a big difference in tone with the new OT and the Choke? I would love to hear you evaluation of what improvement it made. You did great by documenting it and do nice work. Thanks, 

TJ


----------



## Steve Naples

If anyone is interested in getting one of these, right now AMS has an 8 pay going on for them. FYI


----------



## 60Cycle

I have come to two conclusions, one is that I will never quit monkeying with it and the LP Standard. All those knobs and push/pulls, Im like a kid again, and two this amp and the red channel, lead 2 is made for the Fender Stratocaster. I am starting to think the amp in general in stock trim is made for the Strat.


----------



## USAPatriot

I asked Marshall service about the dots on the V1 tube. This is the reply that I got. My followup question to him was "how much?" - awaiting reply:

"The first tube on all of our amps are low noise
tested. These are available from us and most tube suppliers offer tested
tubes like this as well. these are not really needed for other spots in
the preamp."


----------



## USAPatriot

60Cycle said:


> I have come to two conclusions, one is that I will never quit monkeying with it and the LP Standard. All those knobs and push/pulls, Im like a kid again, and two this amp and the red channel, lead 2 is made for the Fender Stratocaster. I am starting to think the amp in general in stock trim is made for the Strat.



I take it you got yourself a new 2014 Standard? LOL. Me too, back in Feb before the price hike. Like you, I'm acting like a kid with all of the different possibilities the guitar is offering. It's good in my JCA22H but was GREAT with the DSL40C! Awaiting a new one next week... -Rod-


----------



## USAPatriot

USAPatriot said:


> I asked Marshall service about the dots on the V1 tube. This is the reply that I got. My followup question to him was "how much?" - awaiting reply:
> 
> "The first tube on all of our amps are low noise
> tested. These are available from us and most tube suppliers offer tested
> tubes like this as well. these are not really needed for other spots in
> the preamp."



And his reply is:

"This is part number M-VLVE-00067S and they retail for about $36.00"


----------



## 60Cycle

USAPatriot said:


> I take it you got yourself a new 2014 Standard? LOL. Me too, back in Feb before the price hike. Like you, I'm acting like a kid with all of the different possibilities the guitar is offering. It's good in my JCA22H but was GREAT with the DSL40C! Awaiting a new one next week... -Rod-


 

No I got the 2013 leftover. There was 5 of them, about a dozen 2014 Standards and Traditionals. I could've got a 2014 I was really impressed with especially the top should've been on a Plus. But I wanted that thousand bucks to put towards an amp and other stuff since Im just coming back into playing after a long hiatus. So what hasn't been lost or taken by the two kids that play I need to do some shopping.


----------



## USAPatriot

Anyone, is the wood strip that the back of the DSL40C screws into strong enough to hold up the chassis after it's removed? It's the right size to hang the chassis tube-down so would make a handy work bench. I don't know if it's just glued on or dado'd in place or what. -Rod-


----------



## tjnugent

I did a little more experimenting with my DSL40C hum issue. It only hums in low power mode. Switched to full power, it is quiet. The hum is coming from the power transformer. I am returning it for a new one.


----------



## solarburn

Now when it's at 20 watts is the amp running on one tube?

If it is it could still be a bad power tube. I don't know how half power operates though. Just thinking out loud...


----------



## tjnugent

If it were a tube, you would still hear it on full power, because both tubes are being used. Just my opinion...


----------



## solarburn

True...


----------



## tjnugent

I used the Crunch Channel with the button pushed in to get the JTM45 tone. It sounded amazing. What a great club amp it is... I am not even running good tubes yet. I can't wait to pop in some Tongsols when I get the new amp.


----------



## solarburn




----------



## USAPatriot

tjnugent said:


> I used the Crunch Channel with the button pushed in to get the JTM45 tone. It sounded amazing. What a great club amp it is... I am not even running good tubes yet. I can't wait to pop in some Tongsols when I get the new amp.



I've got a pair of Tungsol EL34B's here. How-what do you think they'd do in the DSL40C? -Rod-


----------



## Micky

USAPatriot said:


> Anyone, is the wood strip that the back of the DSL40C screws into strong enough to hold up the chassis after it's removed? It's the right size to hang the chassis tube-down so would make a handy work bench. I don't know if it's just glued on or dado'd in place or what. -Rod-



Yes.


----------



## ToneWarrior

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Now when it's at 20 watts is the amp running on one tube?
> 
> If it is it could still be a bad power tube. I don't know how half power operates though. Just thinking out loud...



The answer to this is no. I emailed Marshall asking this very question and they told me that it uses both tubes in 20watt mode. I also read somewhere that the tubes will last longer in 20watt mode.


----------



## tjnugent

ToneWarrior... I wonder if they gave you the correct answer... I always thought that when you dropped to half power, you were only using one tube... I could be wrong... I wonder how they do Pentode/Triode... This is interesting.. Anyone care to take a stab at it?


----------



## Micky

USAPatriot said:


> I've got a pair of Tungsol EL34B's here. How-what do you think they'd do in the DSL40C? -Rod-



Try it. You might like it. Just be sure to bias them properly...


----------



## tjnugent

I am sending my humming DSL40c back. It only hums in half power setting. After I get the exchange, I am going to put Tungsol in completely... I want to put on casters as well. Anyone have a source for decent amp casters?


----------



## Micky

tjnugent said:


> ToneWarrior... I wonder if they gave you the correct answer... I always thought that when you dropped to half power, you were only using one tube... I could be wrong... I wonder how they do Pentode/Triode... This is interesting.. Anyone care to take a stab at it?



Uses 2 tubes in both modes.

Most power tubes are pentodes, which are modified triodes. Pentodes have a higher gain than triodes. The screen grid is one of the electrodes that make the pentode have more gain than a triode. Kinda like adding a gain stage. If you tie the screen grid to the plate, you can make a pentode power tubes work as a triode. When you disable the screen grid like this, the gain is reduced by about half.

You actually do extend tube life in triode mode because the tube is only running about half as much current thru it.


----------



## tjnugent

Excellent explanation... Thank you!


----------



## USAPatriot

tjnugent said:


> I am sending my humming DSL40c back. It only hums in half power setting. After I get the exchange, I am going to put Tungsol in completely... I want to put on casters as well. Anyone have a source for decent amp casters?



With 4 pieces of 2x4 and 4 casters you can make a dolly that you can put the amp on...or not, and any good casters will do, available at Wally World or Home Depot. Putting an amp on casters (semi) permanently didn't work for me with my 5150 II combo. We had wood floors and the amp would start to move across the room when I played. I attached a couple of large D rings as well so when me and the amp were elsewhere, I could lock the dolly to something, reducing the chance of theft...easier to roll something that big and heavy away than carry it. -Rod-


----------



## 60Cycle

If money were no object, what set of preamp and power tubes would be ideal for this combo trying to get it similar or close to an AFD?


----------



## Micky

Seriously? If money were no object I would buy an AFD.


----------



## USAPatriot

$2400 on Ebay will get you the real thing. Otherwise I guess you could try ECC83's in V1 thru 4 and see what happens. Shrug. -Rod-


----------



## 60Cycle

Micky said:


> Seriously? If money were no object I would buy an AFD.


 

Ive been out of things for awhile, but money not being an object it terms of tubes hasn't reached the realm of just buying an AFD have they?

Having heard a Strat run through one I was in awe. I know a tube swap wouldn't get close but getting somewhere in the neighborhood by swapping just the preamp would be nice to screw around with.


----------



## Micky

Sure, it is already close.

Ruby AC5 & AC7 HG+ are probably the highest gain CP tubes, then TAD next in line.
Also a speaker swap might help.

But for about the same price an SL-5 is already there...


----------



## Super T

Hi all quick question here. If money were an issue (It is here) whats the best option for replacing all 6 tubes in my dsl40c? I saw others breakdowns but after looking on tube store it's around 150 usd for the tubes mostly recommended. Thanks for your help!


----------



## Micky

That is about right, might be a little high.
4 JJ's and a couple cheap EL34's, maybe $100 - $150 or so.


----------



## USAPatriot

tjnugent said:


> ToneWarrior... I wonder if they gave you the correct answer... I always thought that when you dropped to half power, you were only using one tube... I could be wrong... I wonder how they do Pentode/Triode... This is interesting.. Anyone care to take a stab at it?



The back panel has the answer: "Triode/Pentode" (Or visa versa...I don't have one in front of me). HOW they accomplish that is beyond my understanding of how tubes work, sorry.

On that note, my NEW DSL40C is going to arrive a day early according to UPS! It was supposed to arrive Thursday, now it's set to arrive tomorrow  -Rod-


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> That is about right, might be a little high.
> 4 JJ's and a couple cheap EL34's, maybe $100 - $150 or so.



I think he could go as low as about $70. I was on a site last night and saw some EL-34's for about $16.95 IIRC and 12AX7's for $9.95. I don't know what their shipping charges are nor did I notice which EL's were that cheap. I think the preamp tubes were JJ's. Ummmm tubesandmore.com I think. -Rod-


----------



## solarburn

Super T said:


> Hi all quick question here. If money were an issue (It is here) whats the best option for replacing all 6 tubes in my dsl40c? I saw others breakdowns but after looking on tube store it's around 150 usd for the tubes mostly recommended. Thanks for your help!



Is tone an issue too? You could put some cheap tubes in there to save on money only to hate the amp's tone.

I would put what I call good tone tubes in V1 & V2 and then save money on V3 & V4.

I had changed my power tubes to JJ 34L's which sound good in it but recently went back to the stock ones. I like both. Wish I knew what the stock power tubes were so I could price direct replacements. They sound good to me.

The only place I'd save a couple bucks on would be V3 & V4. It happens that the power tubes I prefer are not that expensive anyways compared to the others.

Anyways all JJ83S's in the preamp would piss me off...but that's my ears. If money is the deciding factor then they will put out sound for you.LOL


For V3 & V4= $28
Ruby 7025SS HG

For V1 & V2= $40(no added options needed)These are not high gain but low noise High Grade toneful 12AX7's. Love em' in mine. The DSL40c is not shy on gain.
Ruby 12AX7AC7 HG+
Ruby 12AX7AC5 HG+

JJ/Ruby 34L's= $33
Ruby E34L-CZ - EL34 / KT77 / 6CA7 - Power Tubes


That's $101 not including shipping. You can save more money at the cost of tone or performance but if you have too...you have too.


----------



## Micky

I have to agree, I have seen this same thing numerous times...

One guy I know spent around $12K on a new camera and lens, and then cheaped out and instead of purchasing the recommended battery, bought an ebay knock off from China.

Long story short, it screwed up the camera, he sent it in for repair and the company won't touch it now. He voided the warranty and now the camera body is black-flagged everywhere.

Don't cheap out. Get reliable tubes from a reputable dealer.


----------



## USAPatriot

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Wish I knew what the stock power tubes were so I could price direct replacements. They sound good to me.



Email sent. I should have an answer tomorrow. -Rod-


----------



## Super T

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Is tone an issue too? You could put some cheap tubes in there to save on money only to hate the amp's tone.
> 
> I would put what I call good tone tubes in V1 & V2 and then save money on V3 & V4.
> 
> I had changed my power tubes to JJ 34L's which sound good in it but recently went back to the stock ones. I like both. Wish I knew what the stock power tubes were so I could price direct replacements. They sound good to me.
> 
> The only place I'd save a couple bucks on would be V3 & V4. It happens that the power tubes I prefer are not that expensive anyways compared to the others.
> 
> Anyways all JJ83S's in the preamp would piss me off...but that's my ears. If money is the deciding factor then they will put out sound for you.LOL
> 
> 
> For V3 & V4= $28
> Ruby 7025SS HG
> 
> For V1 & V2= $40(no added options needed)These are not high gain but low noise High Grade toneful 12AX7's. Love em' in mine. The DSL40c is not shy on gain.
> Ruby 12AX7AC7 HG+
> Ruby 12AX7AC5 HG+
> 
> JJ/Ruby 34L's= $33
> Ruby E34L-CZ - EL34 / KT77 / 6CA7 - Power Tubes
> 
> 
> That's $101 not including shipping. You can save more money at the cost of tone or performance but if you have too...you have too.




Thanks for your help much appreciated I want good tone. I'm just looking for the best place to buy the good tubes. I don't want to sacrifice my tone but also don't want to overpay for tubes when I'm not familiar what the going rates are for good tubes. Some sites jack up their prices.


----------



## solarburn

Super T said:


> Thanks for your help much appreciated I want good tone. I'm just looking for the best place to buy the good tubes. I don't want to sacrifice my tone but also don't want to overpay for tubes when I'm not familiar what the going rates are for good tubes. Some sites jack up their prices.



Amen to getting the most for your money.

Ive used Doug's many times. There is Valve Queen and Tube Depot and the Tube Store and a few others. All online dealers. You can check them out and see who has the best deals on tubes you prefer. Doug's my first stop.


----------



## Micky

Tubestore.com for me, and I get my NOS stuff from MartyStrat.

Although I have been known to get other tubes on sale wherever I might be shopping at the time... Got a nice Ruby HG from Parts-Express.


----------



## solarburn

Yep...NOS tubes I go to Martimus Maximus. Got a few tasty vials from our resident tube guru.


----------



## USAPatriot

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Wish I knew what the stock power tubes were so I could price direct replacements. They sound good to me.



This all comes direct from Kevin at Marshall:

The power amp tubes are part number M-VLVE-000101.
The V1 Tube is part number M-VLVE-00067S.
And the rest of the preamp tubes are M-VLVE-00055.

Contact Sam at tubesandmore.com

-Rod-


----------



## Super T

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Amen to getting the most for your money.
> 
> Ive used Doug's many times. There is Valve Queen and Tube Depot and the Tube Store and a few others. All online dealers. You can check them out and see who has the best deals on tubes you prefer. Doug's my first stop.



I noticed the 7025 ss hg tube is listed as "limited supply" out of production? If these are gone when I do order do you have an alternative tube I could use instead? Thanks.


----------



## solarburn

Super T said:


> I noticed the 7025 ss hg tube is listed as "limited supply" out of production? If these are gone when I do order do you have an alternative tube I could use instead? Thanks.



To save money you could go with the JJ83S/RubyACZ HG(same tubes) for V3 & V4. $22 for both.

I'd be tempted to go with low gain option on V3 and the no option on V4 but you decide. No option on both will work.

Ruby 12AX7ACZ HG


----------



## USAPatriot

Well...

My NEW DSL40C arrived this afternoon, the box looking like it lost a fight with Jack the Ripper. One side was totally opened up, 3 of the 4 sides of the top were ripped open and there's numerous punctures. I was shocked to pull it out of the box and find that there wasn't a scratch on it! I spent about 30 minutes with it, getting it roughly dialed in to where I think I'll like it and it really sounds terrific except for the microphonics. It's just popping and buzzing and humming away, with the power switches and AC and ceiling fans. Bummer. I sent an email off to the dealer (Zzounds) to let them know, and they'll make it right, I'm sure. I did tell them I'd prefer not to send it back. Except for the microphonics, it's just too good, better than the previous one! I'm guessing that my perception that the reverb in this one is superior to the other one is actually the microphonics and not the reverb. Drag. This week I'll pull the chassis and give it a good looking over...just in case it has problems like the last one. lol -Rod-


----------



## Micky

I thought there was a problem with your house wiring?

Seems as though I would work on that before I started blaming tubes...
Also there are lots of other filtering options if you have bad AC.
It is imperative to have a good ground, but then again, a bad V1 can wreck havoc!


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> I thought there was a problem with your house wiring?
> 
> Seems as though I would work on that before I started blaming tubes...
> Also there are lots of other filtering options if you have bad AC.
> It is imperative to have a good ground, but then again, a bad V1 can wreck havoc!



No, no problem with house wiring. Re-read the posts on it. Remember the GFI test plug?
When we had the house rebuilt after the fire I had a single purpose ground wire put in so I'd know that it'd never be an issue. V1 is a good possibility but I'm thinking more the power tubes. The tone itself, I think, is too good for it to be V1, and the random pops especially make me think it's the EL's. I described it all to Zzounds and their techs can make a judgement call on what they think it is. THIS box won't survive another trip and they already paid to have the other one repacked since fedex set it water. True, they owe me one perfectly good amp, but I don't want to fleece them either. If a set of tubes will solve it, it's good with me. If not, then I guess we do it again. I hope not.  -Rod-


----------



## solarburn

Sheesh! They tore that thing a new one! Can't believe more cosmetic shit didn't happen to it.

Either way you'll be taken care of whether you try new tubes or get another amp. Way to be patient Rod.


----------



## USAPatriot

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Sheesh! They tore that thing a new one! Can't believe more cosmetic shit didn't happen to it.
> 
> Either way you'll be taken care of whether you try new tubes or get another amp. Way to be patient Rod.



LOL. I REALLY don't do patient very well at all. I hate waiting, was thrilled when UPS notified me they'd be delivering a day earlier than originally scheduled. Now I'm thinking maybe they should have taken their time  But yeah, Zzounds will take care of it. They must lose tons. -Rod-


----------



## Micky

So what have you got laying around that you can put in the preamp positions?

You are soooo lucky you got a new DSL40c! I have a friend that is on a waiting list since last week, no notification yet. I told him to try MF, as I think they have them in stock...


----------



## solarburn

Micky said:


> So what have you got laying around that you can put in the preamp positions?
> 
> You are soooo lucky you got a new DSL40c! I have a friend that is on a waiting list since last week, no notification yet. I told him to try MF, as I think they have them in stock...



Your thread is prolly the reason places are out of stock.

Hope your friend doesn't find out its your fault...hehee!


----------



## Micky

I truly am surprised by this thread.
I never intended it to be so large and unwieldy.
Now you can't find anything in it (search function kinda sux) and it is so damned long you can't read it without being distracted.
It IS very refreshing to see so many people contributing.
It restores my faith in the MF members! (you guys are great!)

I wish I knew how to use the PermaLink feature better.
I think it allows to direct traffic to a specific post, but I just can't figure it out.

The thing I find most amazing it the constant PM's I get from people wanting more info. And I reply to each and every one...
I keep referring them to all of the other posts you guys make, as I am certainly only one little cog in the wheel...

The other thing I never imagined was how popular this amp would be.
Sure there are still those who would NEVER own a Marshall that wasn't made in the UK... 

They don't know what they are missing.


----------



## Gary Nelson

Anyone have any feedback on the JVM215c, looking for comparison to the DSL40c, any feedback is appreciative 

Gary..


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> So what have you got laying around that you can put in the preamp positions?
> 
> You are soooo lucky you got a new DSL40c! I have a friend that is on a waiting list since last week, no notification yet. I told him to try MF, as I think they have them in stock...



I've got about a dozen preamp tubes here, so kind of a short supply. I put my last ECC83S into my JCA22H a few days ago, curing it's mid-range honk problem. I've got a half dozen Tungsol 12AX7's, a few "Made in China"'s, a couple of JJ's, one an old Groove Tube from a Fender I had. There might be a couple of others I can't think of off the top of my head. None are especially low-noise so not really suitable for V1. I know that at least one of my Tungsol EL-34B's is microphonic so there's no point in trying them in the power section.

It occurred to me last night that I'd put the new MXR-108 EQ into the front of the amp so I removed it and put it into the loop. The amp is warming up, I'll give it a try there and then try without it altogether, but barring some bad problem inside the pedal, it's not the issue, but we'll see in a little while. 

GC has the amp in stock, at least here. Your friend should be able to find one easily enough. -Rod-


----------



## Micky

I would at least roll a couple JJ's and the Tung-Sols thru V1 & V2.
Could be a great indicator of a bad OEM tube.


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> I truly am surprised by this thread.
> 
> They don't know what they are missing.



You did a good thing, Micky. This thread should be a sticky, but I think that'd require another to be cut loose as I think there's some less useful than this one. True, it's long and unwieldy and true the search function is bad. I used to run this very same forum software and the Admins could adjust what the search function allows, but at the expense of forum speed and with so many users, it could be a problem. They might test it though! Re-indexing the database would also be a good start, but it takes time and is also CPU and memory intensive while it's running. We'd definitely be able to find more stuff though. Anyhow, it's a GREAT thread. Good work, Micky! (and all contributors!) -Rod-


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> I would at least roll a couple JJ's and the Tung-Sols thru V1 & V2.
> Could be a great indicator of a bad OEM tube.



For the moment I'm not cracking the cab open, still waiting on a reply from Zzounds. I was hoping for today, but likely tomorrow. I have the weekend coming up and I'll probably pull the chassis, check it over, get fresh photos, make sure THAT is not a repeat of the last one, then think about trying different tubes. It'd be pointless if there's something broken loose underneath. Telling the wife not to turn anything on or off for awhile... -Rod-


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

Great thread Micky. I have read every post, mind you I can't remember what I had for dinner last night so I may have to go through it again.


----------



## USAPatriot

Greatwhitenorth said:


> Great thread Micky. I have read every post, mind you I can't remember what I had for dinner last night so I may have to go through it again.



I'm in the exact same boat. I need to look up biasing on the amp. -Rod-


----------



## Micky

USAPatriot said:


> I'm in the exact same boat. I need to look up biasing on the amp. -Rod-



Easy one. Biasing is on the first page.


----------



## 60Cycle

Here's my new found favorite settings from left to right for 3 of the channels. I like it with my LP Standard with BB pups and my 2011 AM ST Strat with whatever it has for pups.
From left to right
Gain 8
Vol 8
I use it for clean and crunch
Lead 2
Gain 8
Volume 8 
Treble 10
Middle 5
Bass 10
Tone shift in
Presence 10
Resonance 10
Reverbs 10

I'm using clean and crunch and lead 2 with this setting for both guitars only effects I added were a Dunlop Wah and an MXR Analog Chorus

Oh and if like to thank Micky for two things this thread and making me hunt down an AFD100. I found one for 2100 OTD so input it on layaway hoping the wife doesn't notice.


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> Easy one. Biasing is on the first page.



That'll make it easy to find then! I haven't been there since I arrived...read it and moved along 

Has anyone tried a Celestion G12H-75 in their DSL40C? Just the single, not in 2x12 or 4x12 cabs. Impressions? Thanks. -Rod-


----------



## USAPatriot

60Cycle said:


> Here's my new found favorite settings from left to right for 3 of the channels. I like it with my LP Standard with BB pups and my 2011 AM ST Strat with whatever it has for pups.
> From left to right
> Gain 8
> Vol 8
> I use it for clean and crunch
> Lead 2
> Gain 8
> Volume 8
> Treble 10
> Middle 5
> Bass 10
> Tone shift in
> Presence 10
> Resonance 10
> Reverbs 10
> 
> I'm using clean and crunch and lead 2 with this setting for both guitars only effects I added were a Dunlop Wah and an MXR Analog Chorus
> 
> Oh and if like to thank Micky for two things this thread and making me hunt down an AFD100. I found one for 2100 OTD so input it on layaway hoping the wife doesn't notice.



That's a shitload of highs right there! -Rod-


----------



## Micky

USAPatriot said:


> That'll make it easy to find then! I haven't been there since I arrived...read it and moved along
> 
> Has anyone tried a Celestion G12H-75 in their DSL40C? Just the single, not in 2x12 or 4x12 cabs. Impressions? Thanks. -Rod-



I have an Eminence Man O War in mine, which is equivalent...

Personally I think it is exactly what the Dr. ordered.


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> I have an Eminence Man O War in mine, which is equivalent...
> 
> Personally I think it is exactly what the Dr. ordered.



I tried the Eminence (whatever it is) in my JCA112S cab this evening and it was nice. But it was also up off the floor on a wood chest whereas the combo is sitting on carpeted floor, so it's not a fair comparison. The combo on the floor has a lot more low end to it, boomy, whereas the cab on the chest definitely had more clarity. Also, the combo is pointed straight at me while the cab is in a corner angled into the room. I need to get the cab on the floor for a proper comparison, or get the combo up off the floor too. -Rod-


----------



## solarburn

60Cycle said:


> Here's my new found favorite settings from left to right for 3 of the channels. I like it with my LP Standard with BB pups and my 2011 AM ST Strat with whatever it has for pups.
> From left to right
> Gain 8
> Vol 8
> I use it for clean and crunch
> Lead 2
> Gain 8
> Volume 8
> Treble 10
> Middle 5
> Bass 10
> Tone shift in
> Presence 10
> Resonance 10
> Reverbs 10
> 
> I'm using clean and crunch and lead 2 with this setting for both guitars only effects I added were a Dunlop Wah and an MXR Analog Chorus
> 
> Oh and if like to thank Micky for two things this thread and making me hunt down an AFD100. I found one for 2100 OTD so input it on layaway hoping the wife doesn't notice.



Are these knob numbers or given in clock?

That's some high gain high volume if turned up that much not to mention the high Res(given the bass @ 10/pres/reverb.


----------



## USAPatriot

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Sheesh! They tore that thing a new one! Can't believe more cosmetic shit didn't happen to it.
> 
> Either way you'll be taken care of whether you try new tubes or get another amp. Way to be patient Rod.



They contacted me today. They seemed to agree with my assessment and offered to send 4 EL-34B's. My question to them in return was, "Are they OEM?" I need that, I think. I also asked if they'd add on one of the V1 tubes on the odd chance that I'm wrong about it being the power stage. Tomorrow I'll look at the chassis, make sure everything is copasetic and nothing is broken loose. If it's all good I think I'll go for the tubes. A new set plus a spare set seems a good deal, even better if I can also get a V1, even if it just winds up being a spare. I gave them Marshall's part numbers. V1 and the power tubes really need to be stock, I believe. -Rod-


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky,

I went through the post on biasing and it'll be easy enough, thanks. In testing your amp, did you make use of any of the individual test points scattered around the board? TP1, for instance, is labeled "CL Input". I haven't traced any of the TP's yet...do they correspond to the pertinent socket pins or did you check at the pins themselves? Thanks. -Rod-


----------



## Micky

No. I have been meaning to bring up the scope to see what was what, but I will bet I need to inject a signal first and that will mean a dedicated test rig...

On vacation right now with the iPad, more later.


----------



## solarburn

I know most of you will be engaged in other things this Easter weekend but I thought we'd have a wee bit of fun while we're at it. My motive for this is I like to have fun and to show the new DSL40C rocks and I want others to hear it. Plus this thread is a great place to validate and celebrate it. If you don't like the tones I get...don't blame the amp. Its my settings. If my playing hurts your ears...tough shit!

Guess the guitar, Wah, Overdrive pedal or no OD boosting the amp right...and you win a new Ruby 12AX7AC5 HG.

Ruby 12AX7AC5 HG - 12AX7 / ECC83 / 7025 - Preamp Tubes


I use and own all the gear listed here. So I'm not just listing random stuff to keep you guessing.

Guitars:
1. ESP EC1000 with Dimarzio Super Distortion/Paf Joe=B/N
2. Fender Gold Top Telecaster HH with Dimarzio Super Distortions in both B/N

Pedals:
1. Danelectro CTO-1 Transparent OD
2. Mojo Hand Rook OD
3. Ramble FX Marvel Drive

Wah:
Jerry Cantrell
Mark Tremonti

Voicings with actual amp gain settings:
1. Green Crunch-gain at 3pm
2. Green Clean-gain dimed.
3. Red Lead 2-gain at 9:30am

I didn't get many responses last time so let's go with 10 or less separate forum member responses/guesses and if no one gets it all right I'll go with the closest one and then reveal exactly what I used. More may attempt this time due to a free tube hehe.

Can only ship to members living in the USA. I'm not shipping international.

Disclaimer: if the tube doesn't arrive in working condition...it's not my fault. I'm not replacing it. Its a freebie for craps sake!



HAPPY EASTER everyone!


----------



## 60Cycle

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Are these knob numbers or given in clock?
> 
> That's some high gain high volume if turned up that much not to mention the high Res(given the bass @ 10/pres/reverb.


 

Knob numbers, amp on the floor. I have to roll the tone knobs back like one on the clean channel maybe two on the guitars

Mine sounds its best loud as hell.

I will try to figure out a way to record it, at least through my iphone and post it tomorrow. My wife will be at work then, aint no way Im playing that loud with her home.

On the Lead I get not fizz, nice tight bottom end and crunchy mids, the highs are still warm. Hell if I know, maybe mines broke. I haven't touched it. I know I wasn't sure I wasted the money when I first got it.

If I cant get a sound I love out of it at lower volumes, Ill just leave it for when I can wail and work on the JVM. Which I cant make loud enough to bother anyone.


----------



## solarburn

60Cycle said:


> Knob numbers, amp on the floor. I have to roll the tone knobs back like one on the clean channel maybe two on the guitars
> 
> Mine sounds its best loud as hell.
> 
> I will try to figure out a way to record it, at least through my iphone and post it tomorrow. My wife will be at work then, aint no way Im playing that loud with her home.
> 
> On the Lead I get not fizz, nice tight bottom end and crunchy mids, the highs are still warm. Hell if I know, maybe mines broke. I haven't touched it. I know I wasn't sure I wasted the money when I first got it.
> 
> If I cant get a sound I love out of it at lower volumes, Ill just leave it for when I can wail and work on the JVM. Which I cant make loud enough to bother anyone.



Yeah all the hair disappears when volume gets high enough. I haven't had mine over 4 on the knob and it's kicking me back pretty hard. I love to play loud too! My room isn't that big and open so when I crank 4 is plenty.

Man if it sounds great my hats off to you to bear that kind of volume. Good luck getting a decent recording...I use my phone too but at 1 or 1.5...anything higher blows the mic. I do keep mine close to the cab and off axis. Couple feet away. Higher volume just runs away tone wise when I'm recording with the phone...the IPAD too.


----------



## 60Cycle

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Yeah all the hair disappears when volume gets high enough. I haven't had mine over 4 on the knob and it's kicking me back pretty hard. I love to play loud too! My room isn't that big and open so when I crank 4 is plenty.
> 
> Man if it sounds great my hats off to you to bear that kind of volume. Good luck getting a decent recording...I use my phone too but at 1 or 1.5...anything higher blows the mic. I do keep mine close to the cab and off axis. Couple feet away. Higher volume just runs away tone wise when I'm recording with the phone...the IPAD too.


 

I wouldn't been able to deal with it in the spare bedroom for very long, but yeah get it out in an open room and let it breathe, I live in the country nearest neighbor a mile and a half away. So when the wife is gone and Im home alone its headbanging time.

Do yourself a favor if you ever get the slightest chance to let it wail do it. My only regret is not switching down to 20watt and seeing what I had.


----------



## USAPatriot

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I know most of you will be engaged in other things this Easter weekend but I thought we'd have a wee bit of fun while we're at it. My motive for this is I like to have fun and to show the new DSL40C rocks and I want others to hear it. Plus this thread is a great place to validate and celebrate it. If you don't like the tones I get...don't blame the amp. Its my settings. If my playing hurts your ears...tough shit!
> 
> Guess the guitar, Wah, Overdrive pedal or no OD boosting the amp right...and you win a new Ruby 12AX7AC5 HG.
> 
> Ruby 12AX7AC5 HG - 12AX7 / ECC83 / 7025 - Preamp Tubes
> 
> 
> I use and own all the gear listed here. So I'm not just listing random stuff to keep you guessing.
> 
> Guitars:
> 1. ESP EC1000 with Dimarzio Super Distortion/Paf Joe=B/N
> 2. Fender Gold Top Telecaster HH with Dimarzio Super Distortions in both B/N
> 
> Pedals:
> 1. Danelectro CTO-1 Transparent OD
> 2. Mojo Hand Rook OD
> 3. Ramble FX Marvel Drive
> 
> Wah:
> Jerry Cantrell
> Mark Tremonti
> 
> Voicings with actual amp gain settings:
> 1. Green Crunch-gain at 3pm
> 2. Green Clean-gain dimed.
> 3. Red Lead 2-gain at 9:30am
> 
> I didn't get many responses last time so let's go with 10 or less separate forum member responses/guesses and if no one gets it all right I'll go with the closest one and then reveal exactly what I used. More may attempt this time due to a free tube hehe.
> 
> Can only ship to members living in the USA. I'm not shipping international.
> 
> Disclaimer: if the tube doesn't arrive in working condition...it's not my fault. I'm not replacing it. Its a freebie for craps sake!
> 
> Tits! - YouTube
> 
> HAPPY EASTER everyone!



Very nice. Love the amp!
Esp Guitar, Mojo Hand Rook and...Mark Tremonti. Just a guess there. -Rod-


----------



## JEB

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Guitars:



Quick guess 

1. ESP EC1000 with Dimarzio Super Distortion/Paf Joe=B/N

Pedals:
None

Wah:
Mark Tremonti

Voicings with actual amp gain settings:
3. Red Lead 2-gain at 9:30am


----------



## dave999z

ESP
Cantrell
Mojo


----------



## lordquilton

Well I know I'm not eligible, but I'll have a stab 

Guitar:
ESP EC1000 with Dimarzio Super Distortion/Paf Joe=B/N

Pedal:
None


Wah:
Jerry Cantrell

Voicings with actual amp gain settings:
Red Lead 2-gain at 9:30am


----------



## solarburn

Right on guys! Keep em' coming...


----------



## dave999z

Is there a definitive step-by-step with pictures instruction (in this thread or in some other thread) on how to bias the DSL40C? If so, I just can't seem to find it?


----------



## 60Cycle

dave999z said:


> Is there a definitive step-by-step with pictures instruction (in this thread or in some other thread) on how to bias the DSL40C? If so, I just can't seem to find it?


 

Eurotubes - Marshall DSL-TSL-JVM "How to" Bias Video


----------



## Rocktane

60Cycle said:


> Eurotubes - Marshall DSL-TSL-JVM "How to" Bias Video



That video is for the JCM2000 series. You have to remove the chassis on the new series. The test points and bias trim pots are on the board.

Bias info on the 40C can be found on the first page of this thread.


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky,

Do you still have this set of tubes in there? Interesting, as mine are 42ma according to their labels. Same part number on the tube. 

I had the chassis out last night, photos taken, and I eyeballed every component then went back through them in the photos and could find nothing wrong...ie, the C86 problem as in the last amp...so everything looks good. I didn't run any tests. I also looked at the triode/pentode switch and wiring arrangement. Interesting. The flash on my camera put out too many shadows around the switch and base of the tubes though , so not worth squat. I'd need to know more about how tubes work and the layout of the EL-34B pins, to understand why it works. It appears they are shorting or grounding out...for want of a better word...the power going to the one tube when you flip over to triode mode. Trace the red and brown wires as well as the yellow, through the switch. -Rod-




Micky said:


> Here are some more random shots similar to yours, please forgive the out-of-focus stuff...


----------



## Micky

Rod, no, I have TAD EL34b STR finals in there now, I have all mu original Marshalls as a spare set. They barely have a few hours on them before I pulled them and boxed them up. The numbers are TC numbers, not necessarily related to bias, but more related to matching them up.

I can try to explain triode vs. pentode mode, but I don't have the chassis out and can't trace the actual wires with colors. But why? Is there some sort of problem?


----------



## USAPatriot

I've never seen silver-colored preamp tube screens before. They're always either black or charcoal colored. Oh...I've seen a brown one somewhere. Any ideas on what this is, besides what it says on the tube? It seems as if maybe Marshall is having someone do their tubes special, not just rebranding something else. Any thoughts by the tube experts here? -Rod-


----------



## Micky

Marty says they are chinese Shugyangs built especially for Marshall for use in DSL's.


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> Rod, no, I have TAD EL34b STR finals in there now, I have all mu original Marshalls as a spare set. They barely have a few hours on them before I pulled them and boxed them up. The numbers are TC numbers, not necessarily related to bias, but more related to matching them up.
> 
> I can try to explain triode vs. pentode mode, but I don't have the chassis out and can't trace the actual wires with colors. But why? Is there some sort of problem?



Yeah, I figured it was a case of matching, but the spread seems wide, my 42 vs your 53.

No, no problem at all. But it's come up in conversation recently, whether or not one or both tubes are being used in half power mode, so this is just continuing the conversation  -Rod-


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> Marty says they are chinese Shugyangs built especially for Marshall for use in DSL's.



They definitely stand out in the crowd! I'll have to look closer to see if that's bare metal or the color of a coating. They should stick a little LED in there below the getter and let the stray electrons power it.  -Rod-


----------



## Micky

To me it looks like a chrome coating. Chrome plates is what I call them.

Are these the ones with the red dots on them?


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> To me it looks like a chrome coating. Chrome plates is what I call them.
> 
> Are these the ones with the red dots on them?



My V1 has no red dot on it. The other DSL40C had 2 red dots on V1, but I didn't notice the plate color and do not believe that I photographed the tubes on that amp either. Yeah, they may be chrome... -Rod-


----------



## kingbee

I thought red labeled preamp tubes are JJ's and white labeled ones are shugaungs? The EL34's I believe are Shugaungs?


----------



## USAPatriot

kingbee said:


> I thought red labeled preamp tubes are JJ's and white labeled ones are shugaungs? The EL34's I believe are Shugaungs?



Quite possible, but nonetheless, I've never seen tube elements of that color by any maker, so they have to be contract made just for Marshall. -Rod-


----------



## Rocktane

kingbee said:


> I thought red labeled preamp tubes are JJ's and white labeled ones are shugaungs? The EL34's I believe are Shugaungs?



I believe this to be correct. But I could be wrong, and/or things can change.


----------



## USAPatriot

I have a 60w 12" Vintage 30 arriving here on Monday!  -Rod-


----------



## Dizzyg12

USAPatriot said:


> I have a 60w 12" Vintage 30 arriving here on Monday!  -Rod-



Good choice! I have the same and love it!


----------



## USAPatriot

Dizzyg12 said:


> Good choice! I have the same and love it!



I'm in quandary with it though. That is, where to put it? The easy answer is in the combo in place of the 70/80. But I also have 2 cabs for my JCA22H (JCA112s's) with Eminence speakers in them. I could as easily swap out an Eminence and put the V30 in there, giving me a closed back cab. The combo is obviously an open back. Question is, which is the better route?

The hitch is, the JCA22h and the cabs are for sale, but no one's breaking down the door for them, so I can experiment. And if I really like the V30 in the closed cab? I suppose I could sell the JCA22H and one cab as a half stack, and probably quicker with a lower price. I do NOT need two low-wattage amps! I tried one of the cabs with the DSL40C...instead of the 70/80 not with it...and it sounded nice, but the cab was also on top of a 6' long wooden chest, not on the carpeted floor with the amp, so not a fair A/B test. Realistically it'd be easier to put the Vintage 30 in the combo so just have one unit...but will it sound better/best there versus the closed-back cab? An interesting question I guess I'll have to explore in the coming weeks. I also have a choke to install, very likely a new set of tubes and a bias job, and am seriously thinking of lifting C-19...and possibly C-20 too. Lots to do!

Comments, thoughts, suggestions? -Rod-


----------



## Smugnugget

Micky said:


> To remove the C19 cap makes all the difference in the world!
> The OD2 mode on the 2nd channel was pretty much unusable for me as it came from the factory. It may be fine for some as it is stock, but I can only imagine extreme metal being played on hi-gain pointy guitars by angry young punks. (no disrespect) Lots of gain is putting it mildly...
> 
> It is a pretty easy mod, I did it without removing the main PC board. Here is a photo:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I basically just touched a lo-powered soldering pencil (33 watts) to one leg and pried up the cap. It will be easy to return it to stock if needed. Here is another photo:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The OD2 mode on the Ultra Gain channel is now my go-to mode for a boost even though I don't play lead. It has a ballsy feel to it now rather than a fizzy buzz.


Just done this C19 MOD, loving it so far.
Thanks Micky for all the details.


----------



## Micky

C19 is a mixed blessing...

It is very dependent on the speaker and tube combinations you use.
Personally I have replaced the 470pf cap that was there with a 180pf ceramic I had laying around. This, in my opinion, is the right combination for me.

I have an Eminence Man-O-War speaker in mine, which is already a bit darker and more bass heavy than the original 70/80. I had a Texas Heat in there previously, which was not as mid-scooped as the MOW. 

That in combination with the NOS preamp tubes makes this amp very bass rich, and to cut the highs with the C19 mod was a bit too much. Adjusting the value of C19 to me brought things back to a much fuller frequency range with the components I am using.

Now, this might not be the case for many, it is also very dependent on the guitar you use and possibly the pedals you have. My Strat seems to be very treble-rich, with a medium output (MHD custom pups), my LP is very bass-rich with a high output (490/498 pups) and my new USA Tele is an all-around very versatile split between the two with an HS combination of split-coil combinations.

Also, if you don't use pedals in front, you may come to depend on OD1 and ODII on the Ultra channel, and to switch between Classic and Ultra and keep the same EQ settings is sometimes very difficult. I have learned to use my guitar controls more often, but then again, I am not a lead player, I am strictly rhythm and don't use a boost or a lot of gain in most cases. I tend to roll the tone back on the Ultra channel, when doing covers by Rush and Motley Crue, and that in combination with the lower cap value on C19 seems to fit much better.

Of course, your mileage may vary...


----------



## Micky

USAPatriot said:


> I tried one of the cabs with the DSL40C...instead of the 70/80 not with it...and it sounded nice, but the cab was also on top of a 6' long wooden chest, not on the carpeted floor with the amp, so not a fair A/B test. Realistically it'd be easier to put the Vintage 30 in the combo so just have one unit...but will it sound better/best there versus the closed-back cab? An interesting question I guess I'll have to explore in the coming weeks. I also have a choke to install, very likely a new set of tubes and a bias job, and am seriously thinking of lifting C-19...and possibly C-20 too. Lots to do!
> 
> Comments, thoughts, suggestions? -Rod-



I have run a closed-back cab only a couple times, and it makes a huge difference. A full stack of 4X12's is incredibly loud, but also very sweet-sounding!

I have not run a closed-back 1X12, so it is difficult for me to judge, but I feel any open-back situation is gonna lose a lot of bass, as well as a bit of 'thump' so you need to be well aware of the places you will be using the amp.

If you are gonna leave it in one spot all the time then do what ever you like, because adding a cab is gonna make things better. If you are always gonna be carting the combo around, it makes sense to invest in the best sounding speaker you can install into the combo itself. Especially if you won't be using it with an additional external cab. If you will be carting the amp AND a cab around, you may wanna insure you have the most versatile combination you can get away with.

For me, the whole purpose of a combo is portability. Chances are I will be taking it somewhere. 9 times outta 10 I won't be using it with an extension speaker. So I am gonna make the combo sound as good as I can all by itself.

Sure it is great to connect it to an external cab, but for me I don't wanna carry too much stuff around anymore. I am thinking about when I have it at home downstairs where I practice, I wanna plunk it on top of a nice 2X12. But then if I need to grab it and go, it still needs to perform well.

Your choice is of course up to you, but if you have the time, be sure to try every combination.


----------



## Penguinchit

Got to play a bit last night. I'm replacing the engine in my car (head gasket) and have been tied up with that mess for the past couple weeks. After playing for a bit, I realize how much I missed the sound of the amp.


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> I have run a closed-back cab only a couple times, and it makes a huge difference. A full stack of 4X12's is incredibly loud, but also very sweet-sounding!
> 
> I have not run a closed-back 1X12, so it is difficult for me to judge, but I feel any open-back situation is gonna lose a lot of bass, as well as a bit of 'thump' so you need to be well aware of the places you will be using the amp.
> 
> If you are gonna leave it in one spot all the time then do what ever you like, because adding a cab is gonna make things better. If you are always gonna be carting the combo around, it makes sense to invest in the best sounding speaker you can install into the combo itself. Especially if you won't be using it with an additional external cab. If you will be carting the amp AND a cab around, you may wanna insure you have the most versatile combination you can get away with.
> 
> For me, the whole purpose of a combo is portability. Chances are I will be taking it somewhere. 9 times outta 10 I won't be using it with an extension speaker. So I am gonna make the combo sound as good as I can all by itself.
> 
> Sure it is great to connect it to an external cab, but for me I don't wanna carry too much stuff around anymore. I am thinking about when I have it at home downstairs where I practice, I wanna plunk it on top of a nice 2X12. But then if I need to grab it and go, it still needs to perform well.
> 
> Your choice is of course up to you, but if you have the time, be sure to try every combination.



Nah, the only time the amp will be moved is if it needs to go into another room. It's set up in a spare bedroom and if someone's visiting I move it all out and play in the master bedroom for awhile. Most amps will fit right in the closet doorway so it's out of the way and the cats appreciate having the door open too. I'll probably be moving it tonight and anyhow will need the extra space to work on things. I'll likely try the closed back cab first and see how that works out. So far it looks like the new speaker will arrive here on Thursday  -Rod-


----------



## USAPatriot

See the difference between your C-19 and mine? Marshall added a single long leg to the one side for easy access lol. They did it on C-20 as well, like an open invitation. I wish I knew what that means. It appears that C-20 addresses the Classic channel, but in what way? Has anyone monkeyed with it, yet? 

*EDIT: I think I'm mis-remembering. I think C-20 is doing something with OD1 while C-19 is OD-2. I don't have the schematic open. -Rod-*


----------



## solarburn

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Guess the guitar, Wah, Overdrive pedal or no OD boosting the amp right...and you win a new Ruby 12AX7AC5 HG.
> 
> Ruby 12AX7AC5 HG - 12AX7 / ECC83 / 7025 - Preamp Tubes
> 
> 
> I use and own all the gear listed here. So I'm not just listing random stuff to keep you guessing.
> 
> Guitars:
> 1. ESP EC1000 with Dimarzio Super Distortion/Paf Joe=B/N
> 2. Fender Gold Top Telecaster HH with Dimarzio Super Distortions in both B/N
> 
> Pedals:
> 1. Danelectro CTO-1 Transparent OD
> 2. Mojo Hand Rook OD
> 3. Ramble FX Marvel Drive
> 
> Wah:
> Jerry Cantrell
> Mark Tremonti
> 
> Voicings with actual amp gain settings:
> 1. Green Crunch-gain at 3pm
> 2. Green Clean-gain dimed.
> 3. Red Lead 2-gain at 9:30am
> 
> I didn't get many responses last time so let's go with 10 or less separate forum member responses/guesses and if no one gets it all right I'll go with the closest one and then reveal exactly what I used. More may attempt this time due to a free tube hehe.
> 
> Can only ship to members living in the USA. I'm not shipping international.
> 
> Disclaimer: if the tube doesn't arrive in working condition...it's not my fault. I'm not replacing it. Its a freebie for craps sake!
> 
> Tits! - YouTube
> 
> HAPPY EASTER everyone!



Couple things guys...

USAPATRIOT- I need an amp voicing guess
Dave999z- same, amp voicing guess.
Jeb- yours is complete but guess again from the hints below.

I'm going to give you guys a couple hints so we can dial it in closer and then by Friday or after the weekend it will be tube time hehe.

1. Wrong guitar.
2. I didn't use Lead 2 low gain voicing.

Alright guys lets see who gets this down or closest.


----------



## USAPatriot

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Couple things guys...
> 
> USAPATRIOT- I need an amp voicing guess



Sorry, I missed the paste part of the copy. Ooops.

1. Green Crunch-gain at 3pm

-Rod-


----------



## dave999z

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Couple things guys...
> 
> USAPATRIOT- I need an amp voicing guess
> Dave999z- same, amp voicing guess.
> Jeb- yours is complete but guess again from the hints below.
> 
> I'm going to give you guys a couple hints so we can dial it in closer and then by Friday or after the weekend it will be tube time hehe.
> 
> 1. Wrong guitar.
> 2. I didn't use Lead 2 low gain voicing.
> 
> Alright guys lets see who gets this down or closest.



Ok...

Tele (since you've told us)
Cantrell
Mojo
Green clean gain dimed


----------



## twd2550

I am looking for speaker options that would fit well with the c19 mod. Debating over the veteren 30 or the retro 30. Any other suggestions? usapatriot I noticed the same thing with the longer leg on my c19, made it easier to clip for me.


----------



## USAPatriot

twd2550 said:


> usapatriot I noticed the same thing with the longer leg on my c19, made it easier to clip for me.



I was fascinated by the find. Marshall seemed to see that this was a 'thing' for DSL owners so altered the design to accommodate us.

It'd be nice if they'd externalize the bias test points and move the pots so we can get at them without removing the chassis. It's not only easier to get the job done, it's many orders of magnitude SAFER too. True, some people will blow out their tubes, but that's their fault. It's a safety issue. -Rod-


----------



## JEB

twd2550 said:


> I am looking for speaker options that would fit well with the c19 mod. Debating over the veteren 30 or the retro 30. Any other suggestions? usapatriot I noticed the same thing with the longer leg on my c19, made it easier to clip for me.



I think some here have been very happy with a Texas Heat, Creamback and a Wizard.

I've gone with a Celestion Gold and am loving it. To my ears, it gives a very late 60's early 70's vibe to the amp.


----------



## USAPatriot

This evening I took the Eminence speaker out of the JCA12S cab and put in the new Vintage 30 and hooked it up to the DSL40C. It's sweet! And it's gonna be loud when I crank it. I easily got a 15-20db boost from the swap and I haven't touched a knob on the amp or the guitar. I didn't get to play it much, just tuned and ran through a few things, but I loved. The bottom end definitely wasn't mushy and it had good clarity across the board...though I didn't go into OD2. Anyhow, good choice using the cab. I'm not sure now if I'll even try it in the combo itself. Maybe I should try the Eminence in there first? Nah. -Rod-


----------



## Jethro Rocker

I put my broke in V30 in mine and I really like it. The c19 mod certainly works for me!


----------



## USAPatriot

Jethro Rocker said:


> I put my broke in V30 in mine and I really like it. The c19 mod certainly works for me!



I haven't clipped it yet. I've got tubes on the way, a choke to install and a decision to make about the speaker. I'll probably clip the cap. -Rod-


----------



## Coronado

Micky said:


> I truly am surprised by this thread.
> I never intended it to be so large and unwieldy.
> Now you can't find anything in it (search function kinda sux) and it is so damned long you can't read it without being distracted.
> It IS very refreshing to see so many people contributing.
> It restores my faith in the MF members! (you guys are great!)
> 
> I wish I knew how to use the PermaLink feature better.
> I think it allows to direct traffic to a specific post, but I just can't figure it out.
> 
> The thing I find most amazing it the constant PM's I get from people wanting more info. And I reply to each and every one...
> I keep referring them to all of the other posts you guys make, as I am certainly only one little cog in the wheel...
> 
> The other thing I never imagined was how popular this amp would be.
> Sure there are still those who would NEVER own a Marshall that wasn't made in the UK...
> 
> They don't know what they are missing.


 
So glad you created this Micky! Ya know, its funny - I think I find myself going to this thread more than I visit the rest of the MF posts! its like the DSL thread has become my Marshall Forum! I must have read through this entire thread 5 times now throughout the last several months. Always something I missed or havent tried, or someone HAD an issue that I'm having now. My DSL40 brothers are awesome! LIke SolarB offering to send me tubes to try out before I by them, and Micky giving me advice on finding/trusting a new tech. You guys have been great!


----------



## twd2550

Coronado said:


> So glad you created this Micky! Ya know, its funny - I think I find myself going to this thread more than I visit the rest of the MF posts! its like the DSL thread has become my Marshall Forum! I must have read through this entire thread 5 times now throughout the last several months. Always something I missed or havent tried, or someone HAD an issue that I'm having now. My DSL40 brothers are awesome! LIke SolarB offering to send me tubes to try out before I by them, and Micky giving me advice on finding/trusting a new tech. You guys have been great!


It has helped me also. I have enjoyed everyones opinions and troubleshooting.


----------



## USAPatriot

I always check this thread first for new posts!

I decided that I'm keeping the Jet City cab that I just put the Vintage 30 into. It's just too good. The lows, mids and highs seem much more balanced and I know I won't get there with that speaker in the combo, though I do intend to test it in there. The closed back is just inherently better than the open back. Right now I'm not thinking about making the DSL into a head. Maybe next year, or not. In 2010 we had a fire and got burned out, along with 9 other families. The guy that did our cabinets just happens to be the son of a good friend of my father in law. If anything, I'm thinking of maybe having him make a proper combo up with real wood. No tolex, just stain and a high gloss varnish. Birdseye would be too cool!! Or maybe have it matched to my Les Paul? Or is that too corny?  -Rod-


----------



## solarburn

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I know most of you will be engaged in other things this Easter weekend but I thought we'd have a wee bit of fun while we're at it. My motive for this is I like to have fun and to show the new DSL40C rocks and I want others to hear it. Plus this thread is a great place to validate and celebrate it. If you don't like the tones I get...don't blame the amp. Its my settings. If my playing hurts your ears...tough shit!
> 
> Guess the guitar, Wah, Overdrive pedal or no OD boosting the amp right...and you win a new Ruby 12AX7AC5 HG.
> 
> Ruby 12AX7AC5 HG - 12AX7 / ECC83 / 7025 - Preamp Tubes
> 
> 
> I use and own all the gear listed here. So I'm not just listing random stuff to keep you guessing.
> 
> Guitars:
> 1. ESP EC1000 with Dimarzio Super Distortion/Paf Joe=B/N
> 2. Fender Gold Top Telecaster HH with Dimarzio Super Distortions in both B/N
> 
> Pedals:
> 1. Danelectro CTO-1 Transparent OD
> 2. Mojo Hand Rook OD
> 3. Ramble FX Marvel Drive
> 
> Wah:
> Jerry Cantrell
> Mark Tremonti
> 
> Voicings with actual amp gain settings:
> 1. Green Crunch-gain at 3pm
> 2. Green Clean-gain dimed.
> 3. Red Lead 2-gain at 9:30am
> 
> I didn't get many responses last time so let's go with 10 or less separate forum member responses/guesses and if no one gets it all right I'll go with the closest one and then reveal exactly what I used. More may attempt this time due to a free tube hehe.
> 
> Can only ship to members living in the USA. I'm not shipping international.
> 
> Disclaimer: if the tube doesn't arrive in working condition...it's not my fault. I'm not replacing it. Its a freebie for craps sake!
> 
> Tits! - YouTube
> 
> HAPPY EASTER everyone!



Happy Friday my DSL brothers!

Here is the break down on what I used in the clip.

Guitar: Telecaster
Pedal: Marvel Drive
Wah: Jerry Cantrell
Amp voicing: Green "clean" gain dimed.

Looks like out of Jeb, USAPatriot and Dave999z that responded Dave got the most right.

Congrats Dave999z! You get the tube!


----------



## dave999z

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Happy Friday my DSL brothers!
> 
> Here is the break down on what I used in the clip.
> 
> Guitar: Telecaster
> Pedal: Marvel Drive
> Wah: Jerry Cantrell
> Amp voicing: Green "clean" dimed.
> 
> Looks like out of Jeb, USAPatriot and Dave999z that responded Dave got the most right.
> 
> Congrats Dave999z! You get the tube!



Well, cool! Thanks!!!


----------



## USAPatriot

dave999z said:


> Well, cool! Thanks!!!



WTG there!  -Rod-


----------



## USAPatriot

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Happy Friday my DSL brothers!
> 
> Here is the break down on what I used in the clip.
> 
> Amp voicing: Green "clean" dimed.



I haven't gone past 6 on the clean...so color ME surprised! lol. Thanks for the little contest, it was cool! -Rod-


----------



## solarburn

USAPatriot said:


> I haven't gone past 6 on the clean...so color ME surprised! lol. Thanks for the little contest, it was cool! -Rod-



I meant the gained dimed not the volume. My bad. I can't get volumes over 4.5 in the room I'm in at home.

I like doing stuff like this. You get to hear specific tones utilizing a particular gear set and amp settings. It's even more interesting because we have the same amp. I've never dimed the green clean gain and then boosted it. I always went right to boosting the green crunch voicing instead. Someone else shared the idea and I tried it out...didn't talk myself out of it. Found some cool rock tones using my OD pedals in front of the clean set up like it was.

I really want the Wampler Velvet Fuzz now. I bet it would sound really cool in front of the green clean amp gain dimed.


----------



## USAPatriot

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I meant the gained dimed not the volume. My bad. I can't get volumes over 4.5 in the room I'm in at home.
> 
> I like doing stuff like this. You get to hear specific tones utilizing a particular gear set and amp settings. It's even more interesting because we have the same amp. I've never dimed the green clean gain and then boosted it. I always went right to boosting the green crunch voicing instead. Someone else shared the idea and I tried it out...didn't talk myself out of it. Found some cool rock tones using my OD pedals in front of the clean set up like it was.
> 
> I really want the Wampler Velvet Fuzz now. I bet it would sound really cool in front of the green clean amp gain dimed.



I haven't gone all the way up on the gain either, on either mode. I think I've probably maxed it out at about 3pm. Past that, on crunch, it'd be too much for me when I need the clean part of the crunch to be good. So even on clean I wouldn't have thought to turn it up more. I may give that a try tonight. 
I'm not using any pedals (though I still have my BOSS GT-10 sitting nearby. I do have an MXR-108 EQ sitting in the loop and I've got a BOSS RV-5 reverb coming on Tuesday. Reverb, for me, is something I use experimentally, not routinely, and the DSL's reverb really disappointed me. It adds some depth but beyond that it's useless. I REALLY wish that Marshall would issue an upgraded module that we could swap out with the one that's there as I gather there's only a plug and 2 posts holding it in place. My Blackstar HT-40 had an insane reverb, and I miss it and the new reverb is going to let me chase some of the stranger stuff that I like to play with on occasion. -Rod-


----------



## solarburn

USAPatriot said:


> I haven't gone all the way up on the gain either, on either mode. I think I've probably maxed it out at about 3pm. Past that, on crunch, it'd be too much for me when I need the clean part of the crunch to be good. So even on clean I wouldn't have thought to turn it up more. I may give that a try tonight.
> I'm not using any pedals (though I still have my BOSS GT-10 sitting nearby. I do have an MXR-108 EQ sitting in the loop and I've got a BOSS RV-5 reverb coming on Tuesday. Reverb, for me, is something I use experimentally, not routinely, and the DSL's reverb really disappointed me. It adds some depth but beyond that it's useless. I REALLY wish that Marshall would issue an upgraded module that we could swap out with the one that's there as I gather there's only a plug and 2 posts holding it in place. My Blackstar HT-40 had an insane reverb, and I miss it and the new reverb is going to let me chase some of the stranger stuff that I like to play with on occasion. -Rod-



Having it dimed by itself...without a boost...didn't do anything for me. When I added different OD pedals in front it took on another useable gain voicing. It's a bit looser and warmer in feel and saturation but string definition is good. 

Different than the crunch. When I boost the crunch I don't go beyond 3pm with amp gain either. Usually I use 12:30 to 3pm on the gain when boosting. I don't really use it without a pedal. I like the added punch I get from the pedal. I'm not a high gain player...really.

I don't even use reverb. I like a bit of delay for added depth instead. I do have a Verbzilla pedal though that has great verbs. I dust it off couple times a year. Just to see if I'm missing something. I only used mine to see if it worked. I didn't test how well. I'm noticing those players that enjoy reverb don't give the on board reverb good marks. Hope Marshall is paying attention to this. There are good digital reverbs.

The MXR 108 is a great EQ pedal. I use it a lot on my OR15 to bring in some higher mids. Works great.


----------



## gibguy

Need some help advice etc. Been a very happy owner for past 7 months and just ran into a somewhat strange problem. After reading extensively that one should check bias even from the factory I decided to have a go at it. When I did this last weekend the readings were 43.6 on one side and 42.7 on the other. Thought this a bit high after looking at other peoples preferred numbers so after turning bias pots I set it at 39.3 and 38.7. Liked the sound I was getting with that. Fast forward to today. Thought I should recheck for drift and now when I check one side it is 42.6 and other side is 0. tried over and over checking it. Turn amp off, cool down try again keeps coming up 0. any thoughts or ideas? Amp still sounds ok. One thing I noticed is one of the power tubes had a blue glow earlier and now doesn't maybe not related but? Should I try a different way to bias?


----------



## USAPatriot

gibguy said:


> Need some help advice etc. Been a very happy owner for past 7 months and just ran into a somewhat strange problem. After reading extensively that one should check bias even from the factory I decided to have a go at it. When I did this last weekend the readings were 43.6 on one side and 42.7 on the other. Thought this a bit high after looking at other peoples preferred numbers so after turning bias pots I set it at 39.3 and 38.7. Liked the sound I was getting with that. Fast forward to today. Thought I should recheck for drift and now when I check one side it is 42.6 and other side is 0. tried over and over checking it. Turn amp off, cool down try again keeps coming up 0. any thoughts or ideas? Amp still sounds ok. One thing I noticed is one of the power tubes had a blue glow earlier and now doesn't maybe not related but? Should I try a different way to bias?



A lot of people will check the voltages at the socket directly and then calculate out what the bias should be...also accounting for personal preference (running them hotter or colder) and most people probably use a bias probe for this task since it's a lot safer for themselves and the amp. I don't recall the pin setup for the EL-34's offhand so can't advise on how to do it manually. It's not difficult but can be very risky. Maybe tweak the bias pot for that pin just a hair and see if that figure moves off of zero, but I think the tube is dead. If it's V6, I suppose the amp could keep running. Others may have a different opinion. -Rod-

EDIT: From Eurotube's website. The figures are correct:



> If you measure the DC plate voltage from pin #3 of any power tube to ground then you can use the formula below to calculate the current draw.
> 
> The formula for biasing is the plate dissipation of the tube (25 watts for 6L6’s, EL34’s, E34L’s or KT77’s or for 6V6’s use 14 watts and for KT88’s use 35 watts) divided by the plate voltage (lets use 480 for this example) times .7 will just get you out of crossover distortion and you can go as high as .85 percent but you will wear out the tubes quicker!
> 
> 25 divided by 480 = .0520 or 52 milliamps X .7 = .036 or 36 milliamps
> 
> Most 50 and 100 watt amps using these tubes will have between 450 to 480 plate volts so even if you do not measure your plate voltage you will find that a setting between 35 to 40mA will be acceptable.


----------



## solarburn

gibguy said:


> Need some help advice etc. Been a very happy owner for past 7 months and just ran into a somewhat strange problem. After reading extensively that one should check bias even from the factory I decided to have a go at it. When I did this last weekend the readings were 43.6 on one side and 42.7 on the other. Thought this a bit high after looking at other peoples preferred numbers so after turning bias pots I set it at 39.3 and 38.7. Liked the sound I was getting with that. Fast forward to today. Thought I should recheck for drift and now when I check one side it is 42.6 and other side is 0. tried over and over checking it. Turn amp off, cool down try again keeps coming up 0. any thoughts or ideas? Amp still sounds ok. One thing I noticed is one of the power tubes had a blue glow earlier and now doesn't maybe not related but? Should I try a different way to bias?



Take this to the workbench section of the forum. Our resident techs hang out there and are very helpful. 

The Workbench - MarshallForum.com


----------



## Micky

To check the bias you don't NEED to use the pins, you can measure across the 2 associated resistors that feed the pins.

R67 & R68 are the 1-ohm 2W shunt resistors that provide the test points the millivolt readings. You can measure across each resistor and it is the same as the test pins.

Here is a photo, the 2 resistors are on the extreme right of the photo:





You can see they are larger resistors, right next to the rightmost large capacitor, near the insulated spade lug connectors.

Rod is also correct, tweak the suspect bias pot to see if it is in a 'dead spot' in it's travel. If you still get no reading, it may be a dead tube.

BTW - 40 mv isn't too high, it is usable. Things get gnarly though, and clean headroom is reduced with bias set there.


----------



## gibguy

Thanks all for the Speedy reply's. That's why I love this forum. One of the reasons I bought this amp is just from browsing this particular forum for months prior to purchase. It is great how all members on this thread seem to work together. Thanks Solar, Patriot and especially Micky. Mickey you gave the exact answer I was after. You all have a great night!


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> To check the bias you don't NEED to use the pins, you can measure across the 2 associated resistors that feed the pins.
> 
> R67 & R68 are the 1-ohm 2W shunt resistors that provide the test points the millivolt readings. You can measure across each resistor and it is the same as the test pins.
> 
> Here is a photo, the 2 resistors are on the extreme right of the photo:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see they are larger resistors, right next to the rightmost large capacitor, near the insulated spade lug connectors.
> 
> Rod is also correct, tweak the suspect bias pot to see if it is in a 'dead spot' in it's travel. If you still get no reading, it may be a dead tube.
> 
> BTW - 40 mv isn't too high, it is usable. Things get gnarly though, and clean headroom is reduced with bias set there.



Which resistor goes to which varistor? -Rod-


----------



## Micky

R68 is pin1 R67 is pin3


----------



## gibguy

I'm glad it is R67 and R68 because at R69 I would have to turn around


----------



## Micky

At R70 you would owe me one...


----------



## gibguy

I think I may have a croaked tube. Checked at the resistors as suggested by Micky and same result. Moved the pot reading zero and no result. Will try a couple new tubes and see what happens with that. Actually I'm going to pm Marty and see if he can help there. Have all pre amp tubes swapped out with his NOS and VERY happy with them. I still think it strange the one tube had the blue glow all along and doesn't now to kind of point me in the tube direction.


----------



## gibguy

Might need a crowbar to pry Marty away from his new amp though LOL.


----------



## Micky

So swap the tubes you have, see if the problem follows it...


----------



## gibguy

Yup just swapped tubes around and reading follows the tube damn Cp!!! Thanks for all the help. Will check back when I get some new tubes. I probably should have asked charveldan if it would be ok for me to be poking around in there. Haha


----------



## Micky

I run TAD EL34b STR finals in mine.
Hope you get some good ones this time...


----------



## solarburn

Good trouble shooting guys.


----------



## Micky

Blue glow in a tube is not necessarily a bad thing...

www.thetubestore.com - Blue Glow in Tubes, Tube Getters, and other Info


----------



## Micky

Can't wait to try some of these:

TELEFUNKEN-ELEKTROAKUSTIK.COM | TELEFUNKEN Elektroakustik™ - Black Diamond Series Vacuum Tubes - EL34-TK


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> Blue glow in a tube is not necessarily a bad thing...
> 
> www.thetubestore.com - Blue Glow in Tubes, Tube Getters, and other Info



Good article. We're more apt to be affected by glowing plates. -Rod-


----------



## gibguy

That is a good article Micky on the blue glow. I had done some research when I first noticed it and found it to be normal. What I found funny was the glow changing at same time tube read zero. LOL like a light going off. Decided to order the TADs you have in your amp. Saw the reviews from when Marty sent them out to you guys and thought I couldn't go wrong with them.


----------



## Micky

There are lots of options when deciding on power tubes, personally I prefer inexpensive over 'cork-sniffer' types that cost a fortune and don't deliver much of a difference IMO.

I am not really gonna spend more than $30 per tube, and I think the TAD's come in under that price. I am sooooo wanting to try the new Telefunken EL34-TK tubes, I might just order a set to have as spares...

Also, I can't see spending high prices on NOS power tubes, since they are the ones replaced the most. A good set of NOS preamp tubes will last a lifetime... They are the kinda thing you will to your children. They certainly cost enough to make it worth including in a will... But CP finals are fine for me.


----------



## USAPatriot

I think you'd need audio lab conditions and equipment to actually prove a tonal difference in the different power tubes output. I think that we tend to perceive differences that probably aren't there in reality. You'd need to take people out of the equation and just use test signals and a spectrum analyzer and let the 'scopes tell the real story. I want Marshall power tubes back in my DSL because the unit was designed around them but in reality I don't think it matters so long as bias makes the output of tube-set A is equal to the output of tube-set B. Different tubes may bias differently (hotter or colder) due to voltage differences, but all things being equal, there should not be a difference. Human's perceptions do bring the money in, though! -Rod-


----------



## lordquilton

I beg to differ.


----------



## Micky

You do have to admit, a display of two different tube outputs is an objective comparison (opposite of subjective when only judging by ear) and therefore better able to display actual differences. 

Some of us can hear subtle differences and changes, others of us rely upon cold hard facts.


----------



## lordquilton

Micky said:


> You do have to admit, a display of two different tube outputs is an objective comparison (opposite of subjective when only judging by ear) and therefore better able to display actual differences.
> 
> Some of us can hear subtle differences and changes, others of us rely upon cold hard facts.



I'll admit I don't have the training or experience to look at that sort of data and be able to tell how something is sort of going to sound.
I know that some folks can, so what you're saying has some validity, no argument.

However music and the _perception_ of tone _is_ *entirely* subjective. 
If we take your train of thought all the way, you would put together a guitar amplifier (or any other musical instrument) based on 
"cold hard facts" alone. You would then produce and market the instrument without actually ever hearing it. 
Cos' the "facts" say it must sound good, right? 
Does that not sound a little abstract?
If I understand your reasoning, actually playing music on the instrument would be counterproductive, because you've introduced the
"shaky ground" of subjectivity! I say this is "putting the cart before the horse". 

I have to be frank, for me vacuum tubes are pure voodoo! Why the hell should it matter if a tube has short or long plates, 
halo or spiral getter etc, etc? Yet somehow the "fact" is it all matters, and how one "feels" about the sound of a particular tube 
is in _reality_ all that counts in the end.
I'll put it another way. Did you ever see a painting you liked? You just liked it, you didn't need to know what frequency the light waves 
were traveling at to like it. In the artistic realm, the subjective always comes before the objective. Always. 

Er, so I beg to differ! Apologies to all who feel I have hijacked the thread. Ahem.
As you were..


----------



## Micky

No, you haven't hijacked the thread at all!
This is a great discussion about tone, and while there are those who think that it may deserve a thread of it's own (Lord knows there are plenty already) what you are stating is a compliment to what Rod and I are stating. 

There are those who have the ability to perceive the subtle differences in tone, which we all agree, is very subjective. But tone alone, or audio or video clips alone may not be enough for some to see or even believe there is any difference. 

All I am stating, and I know we all probably agree, is that to use a spectrum analyzer with calibrated equipment is a definitive way not only to measure, but to demonstrate the differences that any particular amp combination might have.

I know I am not as lucky as others to be able to hear the slight differences that different tubes produce. Some, maybe, others, not so much. But, having said that, and being the analytical person that I am, it is often a better indicator to me when I can see the output and compare it to another in a visual sense that my opinionated perception.


----------



## lordquilton

Oh, jeezus...

Micky goes into a restaurant. He is hungry. 
"Waiter, I think I want soup".
The soup arrives. Micky tastes it.
"Waiter, it's quite possible I would like this soup; but I just can't trust my opinionated perceptions! Even though my _whole being_ tells me this is a good experience I'm having, my almighty reason just isn't satisfied! 
Can I see the recipe?" 
(sees the recipe)
"Hmm, no, my abstract intellectualism is not appeased. Can I watch the chef make the soup?"
(watches the process)
"Yes that's getting there, but now I need to see the molecular composition of the various ingredients, then I'll _really know_!"

Some time later, Micky retakes his seat in front of the soup and takes a mouthful. 
"Ah, now that _is_ good soup! Is it possible it's a little cold though?"
"Waiter, can I have a thermometer?"


----------



## solarburn

I LOL'd.


----------



## USAPatriot

Humans do funny things without even knowing it. JJ's just gotta be better so you play the hell out of them. "Made in China" are shit, so you give a half hearted performance with them, even if you don't realize you're doing it. Tell some guy he's playing some choice NOS preamp tubes and I'll bet he loves them...even if you lied through your teeth. Sometimes those "subtle tonal differences" are just a difference in bias...personal bias that is, not the tubes. Even uncertainty can be a factor. Uncertainty shows up in how you play as does having a fight with your wife or finding your dog ate one of your best shoes. All this baggage we carry around with us comes out through the amplifier. It takes genuine focus and an unbiased ear (ahem) to properly judge differences in tone. Night before last my amp was sounding really good. Last night I was unhappy with it. Tonight too. Unless there's something amiss in the amp that I don't know about...tubes changing or component going bad...then the only thing different is me. -Rod-


----------



## Micky

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I LOL'd.



Me too. That was great.


----------



## Steve Naples

OMG! That was great. I was rolling.


----------



## USAPatriot

You guys don't know me, or my past, but before I got cancer in 1999 I was a cardiology technician. I know a thing or two about hearts and a thing or two about the gear used to test and record for posterity the electrical signature of the human heart. No matter how you feel, how you say you feel, good or bad, with a handful of electrodes and a monitor or a pen recorder (or printer), I can tell your heart's present health, it's past problems, and even your future...if that future is likely to end in the next 5 minutes to 24 hours anyway. I can tell if you had a heart attack 30 years ago, or if you're having one now. I can tell if your smoking...or the marathon you just ran...has left your heart short of oxygen. One technician and myself once went through a full hour's worth of tape (many times) to document the pattern in a heart block that invariably culminated in short run of V-Tach. It was like a play...the pattern had to run it's course for the full hour before the patient's heart was conducive to that 6-beat run a V-Tach. Turns out that treating for the PVC's that made up the VTach was the wrong thing. Treating him for the heart block was the right thing, but the doctor had to be shown WHY. Mr. Black...he died 3 days after I saw a 20 second anomaly on his monitor that never repeated. He was dead when it happened, just didn't know it, and neither did I at the time. I just happened to document it. Sad. The point of repeating and revisiting all this pain is to back up Micky's assertions that facts matter. A spectrum analyzer cannot tell what is "pleasant" and what is awful, but with enough accumulated experience with a sensitive device, you get a feel for what is acceptable and what isn't. Way too many highs here. Or the mids are too low. The bass is clipping, etc. The spectrum analyzer can allow for objective A/B comparisons, information that can be passed along to the users. Mr Black, you just blew out a chunk of heart muscle, sorry. I know you feel fine but the damage is done. (The body reacts to that damage, no matter what). Mr Venger, these preamp tubes are good but the scope says they're going to be more trebly than what you usually like, or, these power tubes aren't going to do it for you. The voltage is low, you'll have to bias them high and they probably won't last as long as you'd like. This set has a LOT of highs but they're outside the range of your hearing so probably not an issue.

Whether or not we LIKE something, that's different. But the test equipment is a great equalizer. It tells you what IS, what is happening. And using test tones removes the human tendency to be inconsistent. -Rod-


----------



## solarburn

USAPatriot said:


> Humans do funny things without even knowing it. JJ's just gotta be better so you play the hell out of them. "Made in China" are shit, so you give a half hearted performance with them, even if you don't realize you're doing it. Tell some guy he's playing some choice NOS preamp tubes and I'll bet he loves them...even if you lied through your teeth. Sometimes those "subtle tonal differences" are just a difference in bias...personal bias that is, not the tubes. Even uncertainty can be a factor. Uncertainty shows up in how you play as does having a fight with your wife or finding your dog ate one of your best shoes. All this baggage we carry around with us comes out through the amplifier. It takes genuine focus and an unbiased ear (ahem) to properly judge differences in tone. Night before last my amp was sounding really good. Last night I was unhappy with it. Tonight too. Unless there's something amiss in the amp that I don't know about...tubes changing or component going bad...then the only thing different is me. -Rod-




To the last part Rod...

I have this happen with all my amps at one time or another. Usually when I play the shit out of them each day. If I can't pinpoint anything mechanical wrong I chalk it up to ear fatigue or changing hearing frequencies.

Recording it when you experience it can help too. Check if the ears are playing tricks or not. See if the tone is changing on you...


----------



## USAPatriot

solarburnDSL50 said:


> To the last part Rod...
> 
> I have this happen with all my amps at one time or another. Usually when I play the shit out of them each day. If I can't pinpoint anything mechanical wrong I chalk it up to ear fatigue or changing hearing frequencies.
> 
> Recording it when you experience it can help too. Check if the ears are playing tricks or not. See if the tone is changing on you...



I call it sonic fatigue and believe it's caused by making too many changes in a short period of time, to the point that nothing sounds good. If I've been playing on the treble side and then swap, everything sounds muddy, even if yesterday those very same settings were perfectly fine. I try to make minimal changes and just play what I have set for that day. The next day...or after a few hours rest...maybe I tweak it a little bit and go again. But lots of changes is just a recipe for disappointment. I agree with you. -Rod-


----------



## solarburn

New strings, tubes, bias or changing position of the amp in the room by just a bit can change a good tone to less then or vice versa. Lots of variables to try and manage.

I can barely afford the gear I buy let alone the instruments to read and measure with. Experience with mistakes and success teaches me good information. There are certain markers I look for when I listen/read about what someone else is reporting. If I think it's worth trying then I will try it to find out myself. Anymore I'm happy with subtle changes that suit me. Tone and feel. 2 absolutes that reward my playing. It's likely I dump the gear that spoils any one of those 2 things where I've drawn a line of acceptance at. I have to have a certain amount of both to be content.

Of course this is dictated by what I can afford but I can qualify it by saying if tone and feel is ratty enough...I won't play very much.


----------



## USAPatriot

That's all true. Today I added a BOSS RV-5 reverb and so far as the spatial aspects of the tone go, I'm very pleased. The DSL's reverb just doesn't do it and I'm playing in a small space. The new reverb solved that nicely. It still needs fine-tuning, but with a better perception of the room now, I'm better equipped to work on the other things. If I had the money, I'd rent a large climate controlled space where I have more freedom to play. But alas. -Rod-


----------



## solarburn

USAPatriot said:


> I call it sonic fatigue and believe it's caused by making too many changes in a short period of time, to the point that nothing sounds good. If I've been playing on the treble side and then swap, everything sounds muddy, even if yesterday those very same settings were perfectly fine. I try to make minimal changes and just play what I have set for that day. The next day...or after a few hours rest...maybe I tweak it a little bit and go again. But lots of changes is just a recipe for disappointment. I agree with you. -Rod-



Use your phone and record it to see if you hear the same audio translations. My phone does well enough I've found...if in the right spot which I've settled on. I usually do this if I suspect a mechanical or my ears. I'm using the same gear now day in and day out. I experience those changes still.

I agree Rod. I go through the same stuff just demoing over drives on the same channel. I even sent a pedal back only to find out it was fine and sounded like his other ones. Got it back and it sounded the same to me...not so good. Next day I found the sweet spot again. Did a clip and others commented on how good the pedal sounded. I felt my recording demonstrated good tone first. Then I shared it. Turns out others did too. I don't get upset with guys not liking it either. I just figure their ears are shit. I keed.


----------



## solarburn

Also I've noticed how much my ears change when I play in my room at high volume...while I'm playing. They take it for about 5 minutes then I start losing frequencies. Makes my tone go bad hehee!


----------



## solarburn

USAPatriot said:


> That's all true. Today I added a BOSS RV-5 reverb and so far as the spatial aspects of the tone go, I'm very pleased. The DSL's reverb just doesn't do it and I'm playing in a small space. The new reverb solved that nicely. It still needs fine-tuning, but with a better perception of the room now, I'm better equipped to work on the other things. If I had the money, I'd rent a large climate controlled space where I have more freedom to play. But alas. -Rod-



I've heard good things about that reverb pedal. Congrats!


----------



## USAPatriot

I don't have a phone to record with but do have a digital camera. I'm not sure how good the audio will be for something like this, but I can try it. I'm looking forward to cranking the knobs on the reverb and getting some really dark and interesting sounds out of it. The Blackstar HT-40 was really good at that.. It's fun to step outside the box on occasion and just fart around. These little strange things can sometimes add to songs in a big way. My ears ring and hiss...mostly hiss...24/7, so that's a challenge as well. Too many concerts as a kid, too much gunfire as an adult. I wish I could dial it out lol -Rod-


----------



## Pumpkin88

I really love the clean sounds of this amp, forget ever needing a Fender. Sounds near perfect at gain 6, volume 7.5 on the classic gain channel.


----------



## Pumpkin88

Also I don't know how some of you guys run next to nothing for treble. The amp needs to breath so to speak. Cranking up the treble and matching it close with the bass really lets it sing IMO.


----------



## USAPatriot

Pumpkin88 said:


> Also I don't know how some of you guys run next to nothing for treble. The amp needs to breath so to speak. Cranking up the treble and matching it close with the bass really lets it sing IMO.



I dunno. When I crank up the treble all I get is more treble. It's the Trouble with Treble I guess. Adding an equal amount of bass doesn't offset it because the frequencies aren't the same...it's not like they cancel. I just get more bass along with too much treble. The trick is to have enough mids and bass in there, with the treble down, so there IS a balance...IF balance is what the user is looking for. I like chords to have punch, which is more low-mid than high, but losing too many highs results in mud, or dense fog at least. I've seriously thought about removing both the E/e strings a gazillion times over the years. -Rod-


----------



## Pumpkin88

USAPatriot said:


> I dunno. When I crank up the treble all I get is more treble. It's the Trouble with Treble I guess. Adding an equal amount of bass doesn't offset it because the frequencies aren't the same...it's not like they cancel. I just get more bass along with too much treble. The trick is to have enough mids and bass in there, with the treble down, so there IS a balance...IF balance is what the user is looking for. I like chords to have punch, which is more low-mid than high, but losing too many highs results in mud, or dense fog at least. I've seriously thought about removing both the E/e strings a gazillion times over the years. -Rod-



I don't know man I just treat my amps like every other piece of audio equipment I've ever owned. In a way I think a guitar amplifier is very similar to setting the EQ on a high end stereo system. Turn everything up to get the most out of it before it becomes too saturated than make the fine adjustments. Also I probably should have mentioned I have my mid range set less than 5 (4.5) as well as the tone shift pushed in that likely makes a difference as well. Than of course you have your presence an resonance controls to adjust. I guess my point was this particular amp is not as bright as some make it out to be you just have to make the appropriate adjustments to get the most out of it. For example, I've experimented with different settings and I think it sounds better when the preamp section is breaking up over the power section. At least that's what I think of when I listen to a DSL. When I here something like a JCM800 I think its sounds better when the power section is breaking up. Though I don't really like JCM's with EL34's and much prefer 6550's or KT88s as I think they have a much fatter sound.


----------



## USAPatriot

Pumpkin88 said:


> I don't know man I just treat my amps like every other piece of audio equipment I've ever owned. In a way I think a guitar amplifier is very similar to setting the EQ on a high end stereo system. Turn everything up to get the most out of it before it becomes too saturated than make the fine adjustments. Also I probably should have mentioned I have my mid range set less than 5 (4.5) as well as the tone shift pushed in that likely makes a difference as well. Than of course you have your presence an resonance controls to adjust. I guess my point was this particular amp is not as bright as some make it out to be you just have to make the appropriate adjustments to get the most out of it. For example, I've experimented with different settings and I think it sounds better when the preamp section is breaking up over the power section. At least that's what I think of when I listen to a DSL. When I here something like a JCM800 I think its sounds better when the power section is breaking up. Though I don't really like JCM's with EL34's and much prefer 6550's or KT88s as I think they have a much fatter sound.



Until I got my current setup, which s the '14 Gibson Les Paul Standard plus the DSL40C, I generally just ran everything dimed on the guitar and tweaked the amp as needed. Now I'm unlearning decades of habit, setting the amp up higher than normal and using the guitar in a more appropriate way. I suppose the downside is that I'm not getting the full benefit of the pickups, but they aren't anything really special...BB1 and BB2, so it's not critical to the tone, but it's a new way of thinking for me. I've also got an MXR-108 EQ sitting in the loop full time and now I'm running the RV-5 reverb into the front end as well. I mostly play the middle switch position on the Les Paul and the tone knobs are currently set at 4 and 6. That was unheard of for me since like 1975. And the volumes are down around 6 and 7 I think as of tonight. I'm not using the volume or gain on the EQ in the loop, they are set at neutral though I may play with the gain a little bit next week. Since it's digital, I don't see it doing me much good and it's sitting on top of the amp too, so not really handy. Things are definitely getting interesting and I've hardly explored the coil taps and phase swapping on the Gibson. -Rod-


----------



## Skylarkpilot

Hi Rod,
It's a little off topic but I'd be interested to hear what you think of the coil tapping stuff on the Standard '14 through the DSL. I play a Standard '08 and like you, I tend to dime everything on the axe and then adjust the DSL40C for the sound I want. 
I'd be interested in whether the ability to adjust those sounds on the guitar is like eliminating some effects pedals.
I really don't know much about coil tapping and phase inversion, all sounds like voodoo to me


----------



## 60Cycle

USAPatriot said:


> Until I got my current setup, which s the '14 Gibson Les Paul Standard plus the DSL40C, I generally just ran everything dimed on the guitar and tweaked the amp as needed. Now I'm unlearning decades of habit, setting the amp up higher than normal and using the guitar in a more appropriate way. I suppose the downside is that I'm not getting the full benefit of the pickups, but they aren't anything really special...BB1 and BB2, so it's not critical to the tone, but it's a new way of thinking for me. I've also got an MXR-108 EQ sitting in the loop full time and now I'm running the RV-5 reverb into the front end as well. I mostly play the middle switch position on the Les Paul and the tone knobs are currently set at 4 and 6. That was unheard of for me since like 1975. And the volumes are down around 6 and 7 I think as of tonight. I'm not using the volume or gain on the EQ in the loop, they are set at neutral though I may play with the gain a little bit next week. Since it's digital, I don't see it doing me much good and it's sitting on top of the amp too, so not really handy. Things are definitely getting interesting and I've hardly explored the coil taps and phase swapping on the Gibson. -Rod-



The out of phase is my most used gizmo on my 2013. I'm coming to the conclusion you can do more with your sound using all the cool stuff they set in the Standard then most amps not including adding pedals of course.


----------



## USAPatriot

Skylarkpilot said:


> Hi Rod,
> It's a little off topic but I'd be interested to hear what you think of the coil tapping stuff on the Standard '14 through the DSL. I play a Standard '08 and like you, I tend to dime everything on the axe and then adjust the DSL40C for the sound I want.
> I'd be interested in whether the ability to adjust those sounds on the guitar is like eliminating some effects pedals.
> I really don't know much about coil tapping and phase inversion, all sounds like voodoo to me



Well, you can't just pull the knobs up, putting the pickups into single coil mode or phase inversion and just keep on playing, at least not on the settings I've used. The tone definitely gets thinner and you lose definition as well. Phase swapping or inversion is just odd. The guitar takes on a whole different feel. A thumping low freq pull-off, something I like to do in a few of my routines, just don't work so well. They lose power and I have to "pull harder" to retain the volume of it and the tone is wrong. To me it's kinda like pushing your gain up while reducing the volume too much. I'm sure it can be tweaked around, I just haven't chosen to play with it much, with other priorities in front of me. The "pure bypass" is a complete mystery to me. I know what it does, I just don't know why it's there. Basically it turns everything up to 10 and then disconnects all your guitar controls, leaving you with just the amp and whatever pedals you have. That's okay I suppose if you're pedal heavy and play with everything on the guitar dimed anyway, but losing the other tone control and both volumes doesn't make sense to me. It maybe would have made more sense to retain the controls and simply use the pull position as a boost, but still controllable. But...it's options and I gotta say that it's a far superior guitar than the "normal" Les Paul that it replaced, that being a 2010 Flood Anniversary in blue swirl. Options are a good thing. When not in use they are transparent but are there at your fingertips for when/if you want to take the time to properly learn their use. 
The DSL40C definitely complements the Les Paul especially if you like screaming leads and Fender-like cleans. I don't use the cleans much myself except in some slow lead-like intros. It's almost like there's too much of a good thing, which is evident in the crunch being weaker than you'd expect or maybe want. I plan on exploring C-20 once I get some other things out of the way. -Rod-


----------



## USAPatriot

60Cycle said:


> The out of phase is my most used gizmo on my 2013. I'm coming to the conclusion you can do more with your sound using all the cool stuff they set in the Standard then most amps not including adding pedals of course.



Like I said in my other reply, it definitely gives you options, which is good. You just have to learn how to work with them. -Rod-


----------



## Skylarkpilot

Thanks Rod, I really appreciate your evaluation. It's one thing reading what the manufacturer says but another thing to hear what a player thinks.
About two years ago a friend asked me how many guitars I had. I thought that was a bit strange as I really thought the '08 Standard would be the only one I'd ever need. I must admit I'm now looking at others and wondering what I might be able to achieve with them. Still in love with my '08 but...well...


----------



## bman

How would I lower these without just snipping it.  The thought of something that drastic scares me. I have changed my tubes to Tung-sol and JJ and have noticed a pleasant change in the gain channel. Want to keep my speaker but reduce a little brightness. Any guidance would be greatly appreciated!


----------



## USAPatriot

Skylarkpilot said:


> Thanks Rod, I really appreciate your evaluation. It's one thing reading what the manufacturer says but another thing to hear what a player thinks.
> About two years ago a friend asked me how many guitars I had. I thought that was a bit strange as I really thought the '08 Standard would be the only one I'd ever need. I must admit I'm now looking at others and wondering what I might be able to achieve with them. Still in love with my '08 but...well...



Sometimes you don't know what you're missing until you try it...or buy it. The DSL is good enough to turn up and if it's too much, let the guitar do the fine tuning in the tone. I never appreciated that until I got this amp. The pots in the guitar will dictate how successful you'll be. You may have a narrow or a wide range, depending on what pots you have. -Rod-


----------



## USAPatriot

bman said:


> How would I lower these without just snipping it. The thought of something that drastic scares me. I have changed my tubes to Tung-sol and JJ and have noticed a pleasant change in the gain channel. Want to keep my speaker but reduce a little brightness. Any guidance would be greatly appreciated!



I guess you can sneak the treble down and the resonance up and that may help. If you do it quickly you'll perceive it as muddy I'll bet, but a little bit per day lets your ears get accustomed to the changes. Or tweak your guitar tone down a little bit and play it while you get used to it. It's usually the big changes that you'll hate, so go slow. 3 or 4 changes in a session and I'm done for the day. Nothing sounds good. -Rod-


----------



## gibguy

Got my new Tad EL34STR tubes in this morning. $52 dollars shipped to my door not to bad a price. Threw them in and biased right up no problem. Set one side at 40.1 and other ended up at 39.7. Have to say they are an improvement over the stock tubes. Not huge but definitely better. More clearish I guess articulate even with good amounts of gain you still have note separation. Harmonic feedback is much easier to obtain. Slight increase in midrange. Clean channel is awesome. All in all I would buy these again no problem. Both bias pots ended up set quite a bit higher than where the stock tubes were. Glad it was an easy problem to fix. Thanks all!!!


----------



## lordquilton

bman said:


> How would I lower these without just snipping it. The thought of something that drastic scares me. I have changed my tubes to Tung-sol and JJ and have noticed a pleasant change in the gain channel. Want to keep my speaker but reduce a little brightness. Any guidance would be greatly appreciated!



I can only say what my experience has been, and for me it's "what it says on the can". The Ultra channel offers _lead_ 1 and _lead_ 2. It's just a very trebley channel. I changed the value of C19 to 100pf. You lose some of the high mid range that is characteristic of this amp. I use lead 2 with the gain between 2 and 4. This way you get the increased bass of lead 2 without things getting too woolly. Bringing up the resonance can help for sure, that's a taste thing.
For the older style hard rock I prefer, it's not articulate enough for me that way.

So I prefer to boost the green crunch and use red channel for leads exclusively. I'm more old school though I guess, I don't use the scooped Metallica sound much. Back starting about page 25 of this thread wangchung did some pretty intense tweaking. What he wrote is usually quite condensed but worth revisiting IMO. I recall him saying he felt the amp was quite sensitive to input, because similar guitars with different pickups yielded noticeably different results.

That makes me wonder, because I use Duncan Customs and they're a bit peaky treble-wise. Whereas solarburn was using Dimarzio Super Distortions (iirc) on red channel and it didn't sound too bright to me.
Anyway that's my two cents worth.


----------



## Rocktane

lordquilton said:


> I
> I use Duncan Customs and they're a bit peaky treble-wise. Whereas solarburn was using Dimarzio Super Distortions (iirc) on red channel and it didn't sound too bright to me.
> Anyway that's my two cents worth.



I pretty much live on Red OD-1 (DSL 100H). The Duncan Custom was really close to being the right pickup for me (at least in the guitar I am experimenting with). I bought it thinking I would not like the ceramic mag at all but I have A2, A5, A8, and UOA5 mags to roll through it, so it made sense to try. The A2, which made it a custom custom, was good too but the mids were over powering in MY set up and I missed the attack on the lows the ceramic provided. The A5 (custom 5) was a bit scooped for me. The A8, which I love in an MHD pickup I have, increased the perceived output but had a slightly sterile quality to it for whatever reason. The UOA5 worked the best for me. With the UOA5, the custom series has the sweet highs of the A2, strong but not overpowering mids, and good solid lows of an A5. It seems like it takes the best qualities from the A2 and the A5, and blends them together. 

As I said, I didn't think would like the ceramic mag in the Custom all that much but, I was wrong and if the UOA5 mag was not an option, I would have gone back to the ceramic. IMHO, the Custom series is really a great platform for magnet swaps. One of these days I'm going to have to try a Super Distortion in this guitar.


----------



## USAPatriot

gibguy said:


> Got my new Tad EL34STR tubes in this morning. $52 dollars shipped to my door not to bad a price. Threw them in and biased right up no problem. Set one side at 40.1 and other ended up at 39.7. Have to say they are an improvement over the stock tubes. Not huge but definitely better. More clearish I guess articulate even with good amounts of gain you still have note separation. Harmonic feedback is much easier to obtain. Slight increase in midrange. Clean channel is awesome. All in all I would buy these again no problem. Both bias pots ended up set quite a bit higher than where the stock tubes were. Glad it was an easy problem to fix. Thanks all!!!



Did you happen to notice what the stock tubes were biased at? Oddly, when I do a tube swap, I invariably neglect to look at where the old ones were set at. -Rod-


----------



## USAPatriot

These arrived via Fedex today. The rest are backordered and will probably be another week.


----------



## saxon68

I've only used EMG pickups on mine, I was nervous they would be too hot but they are perfect for me and clean up nicely when I roll off the guitar volume.


----------



## gibguy

Hey USA. Stock tubes were set from factory at 43.6 and 42.7. Settled on approx. 40 with the new set.


----------



## USAPatriot

gibguy said:


> Hey USA. Stock tubes were set from factory at 43.6 and 42.7. Settled on approx. 40 with the new set.



Cool, thanks for the info. I have yet to check mine, so much to do yet, and still need the new power tubes. 

What do you feel you gained by dropping the current? -Rod-


----------



## Micky

Drop the bias idle current=more clean headroom.
Less fizz at higher gain, more balls at playing volume.
Better overall definition.


Added benefit, tubes last longer.


----------



## solarburn

Mine out of the box were biased at 36mv. After moving it around cooler and a bit hotter I found 36mv was the magic number anyways. I like a cooler bias for added tube life and find the tone/feel more to my liking. Around 34mv to 36mv works for me with the stock and 34L's I use in it. Got the stock ones back in for awhile now. I like em'.

That's with my ears and they are far from fresh.LOL


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

I just re-biased and dropped it from 38 per side to 36 after reading some of the recommendations here. I live on the green channel with pedals, so I like having the added clean headroom.


----------



## USAPatriot

Just out of curiosity, has anyone checked the bias while a note is being played to see what it's doing when it's not idling? It seems to me that I did it when I had my HT-40 but I don't recall the results and it's apples and oranges anyway. I was biasing the tubes at 53 IIRC. Or maybe it was the JCA22H. Damn. I wonder where the current peaks when it's being played? That matters too. -Rod-


----------



## dave999z

Question. I've had my DSL40c about 10 months. Have logged a lot of hours on it, mostly in half power mode at rather low volume. Over the last few weeks, I'll turn it on and it'll be fine at first, but after 30 min or so I start to lose gain on the red channel (OD1), as if I'm turning he guitar volume knob down 2 or 3 ticks. Is this probably just a dying preamp or power amp tube(s)?


----------



## Micky

Possibly a dodgy preamp tube.

Try swapping a known good one into various spots, starting with V1.
I will bet V2 is the culprit...


----------



## dave999z

I've pulled out v1, v2, and v3 so far and the problem's still there. I'll try v4 tomorrow. Maybe it's the power tubes.


----------



## dave999z

You know what's weird... In my amp v3 was the stock tube that had the red dot (thought that was usually in v1).


----------



## solarburn

dave999z said:


> You know what's weird... In my amp v3 was the stock tube that had the red dot (thought that was usually in v1).



My amp had that one in V1. I can see where someone in a hurry could put it in another slot though. Maybe that day they didn't give a shit either.

I believe it to be marked for V1 though. Designated as a lower noise tube.

If the preamp tubes check out look at the power tubes just to eliminate any tube issues. Check the bias.

If it's heat related...happens after a few minutes...then the techs will help you out.


----------



## saxon68

dave999z said:


> You know what's weird... In my amp v3 was the stock tube that had the red dot (thought that was usually in v1).



Was it brand new, no scratch n dent or "blemish"? Factory tape sealing the box? Only reason I ask is if someone had it and may have swapped tubes around then sent it back for whatever reason.


----------



## USAPatriot

solarburnDSL50 said:


> My amp had that one in V1. I can see where someone in a hurry could put it in another slot though. Maybe that day they didn't give a shit either.
> 
> I believe it to be marked for V1 though. Designated as a lower noise tube.
> 
> If the preamp tubes check out look at the power tubes just to eliminate any tube issues. Check the bias.
> 
> If it's heat related...happens after a few minutes...then the techs will help you out.



Correct. I don't know who does the testing for those tubes though. It's a question I'll run past Kevin this coming week. The red dot is supposed to go into V1 and it's not recommended to put them elsewhere in the preamp chain. My current DSL40C has no red dots on any of the tubes and I mentioned that to Kevin. The V1 tubes are on backorder along with the power tubes. The other 3 preamp tubes came from US Music, which appears to be a wholesale distributor for quite a few amp and other music related companies. They don't sell to the public though. -Rod-


----------



## dave999z

Got the amp brand new from Zzounds. No blemish or B stock or anything. Box did not appear to have been opened before. Nor did the back cover of the amp -- the first time I took the screws out those random shreddings came out of the screw holes (if that's making any sense).

I'll check the bias.


----------



## dave999z

So actually... Both v1 and v3 had red dots in my amp. Not sure why they put one of those in v3 as well. But I'm glad they did, because my v1 tube is shot... Makes a clicking/static noise even when not playing. So I yanked it, put the red dot tube from v3 into v1, and put Groove Tubes 12AX7Cs that I had laying around (and know are working fine) into v3 and v4.

Not sure if I still have the problem of diminishing gain after 20-30 min of playing. I'll report back.

Meanwhile, getting ready to either get some new current production tubes or a set of vintage ones from Marty (which I've done before for my other rig, and what he set me up with was perfect).

Does anyone know whether we can order he Marshall OEM tubes from somewhere? I know we know the part numbers. And they aren't all that bad sounding.


----------



## USAPatriot

dave999z said:


> Does anyone know whether we can order he Marshall OEM tubes from somewhere? I know we know the part numbers. And they aren't all that bad sounding.



Yeah we can. Reference an earlier post of mine from about 10-14 days ago. I THINK that it was through tubesandmore.com. Email them through their site or call and talk to Sam. I got the source from Kevin at Marshall. -Rod-


----------



## Pasloade74

Can you recommend another speaker for this amp other than a vintage 30. Our band recently added another guitar player and he plays a Fender twin reverb. But it just seems that I'm burying him with my amp. I tell him to turn up his mids and it really doesn't seem to help. 
While I love the vintage 30 in my DSL 40, Id like to try something a little more smooth and not so "in your face". We play a lot of classic rock from 60s- late 90's so I'm not looking for a real mid scooped speaker either. Thanks


----------



## solarburn

I would think a Creamback would smooth it out.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

For those of you with a 40C that find the lack of footswitchable modes a bit limiting, I'm starting to use mine differently than I initially thought. A good boost up front and clean boost in loop ( preferably with some EQ control) and I now have a multitude of options:
Clean
Crunch
Lead
Boosted clean
Boosted crunch
The option to boost volume through loop in any of these modes plus you can change from one of the above sounds to another midsong with a pedal. For me that's plenty versatile! The big test mid June, the next big show for us when I get to give it a real workout! Cheers all!


----------



## Micky

Good luck on the gig!
A lot of people are complaining about the lack of mode control, I guess the only way to get that is to snag a JVM. Sure is outta my price range...

But your workarounds are valid. I wish I had more time to experiment...


----------



## solarburn

Jethro Rocker said:


> For those of you with a 40C that find the lack of footswitchable modes a bit limiting, I'm starting to use mine differently than I initially thought. A good boost up front and clean boost in loop ( preferably with some EQ control) and I now have a multitude of options:
> Clean
> Crunch
> Lead
> Boosted clean
> Boosted crunch
> The option to boost volume through loop in any of these modes plus you can change from one of the above sounds to another midsong with a pedal. For me that's plenty versatile! The big test mid June, the next big show for us when I get to give it a real workout! Cheers all!



Yes. 

Look forward to results out live. Should be great. I've ran amps like this gigging and it worked great. Especially EQ in loop for tuned solo boost. 

I have not with the DSL though so I'm definitely interested if your settings come through like you need them too. There really are so many ways to run this amp regardless of the shared EQ and mode limitations. Pedals open up those possibilities and sound/feel great. I found an NS-2 in the loop to keep any feedback under control without killing tone...but a pubic hairs worth.LOL don't have to squash it as hard in loop.


----------



## USAPatriot

Pasloade74 said:


> Can you recommend another speaker for this amp other than a vintage 30. Our band recently added another guitar player and he plays a Fender twin reverb. But it just seems that I'm burying him with my amp. I tell him to turn up his mids and it really doesn't seem to help.
> While I love the vintage 30 in my DSL 40, Id like to try something a little more smooth and not so "in your face". We play a lot of classic rock from 60s- late 90's so I'm not looking for a real mid scooped speaker either. Thanks



Shouldn't it be his responsibility to have enough gear to keep up? A DSL-40 isn't overpowering. He could try a better speaker that would give him a volume boost, or a boost pedal. It shouldn't be you making the sacrifices. -Rod-


----------



## Micky

USAPatriot said:


> Shouldn't it be his responsibility to have enough gear to keep up? A DSL-40 isn't overpowering. He could try a better speaker that would give him a volume boost, or a boost pedal. It shouldn't be you making the sacrifices. -Rod-



I agree. Why cripple a 40c just to make someone else sound better?
Makes no sense whatsoever.

I played a Fender twin for years, and I know I am not a good guitar player, but it made up for a lot of my shortcomings. It sounded spectacular, and all I ever used for pedals was a Big Muff and a Phase Shifter.


----------



## Pasloade74

USAPatriot said:


> Shouldn't it be his responsibility to have enough gear to keep up? A DSL-40 isn't overpowering. He could try a better speaker that would give him a volume boost, or a boost pedal. It shouldn't be you making the sacrifices. -Rod-



I hear you Man, however the guy just dropped $1200 on a new Twin Reverb and I'd feel bad telling him its "his problem." I've also been toying the idea of trying new speakers anyways. Just trying to be nice to the new guy. I just like that my 40watt DSL is burying his 80 watt Twin.


----------



## USAPatriot

Pasloade74 said:


> I hear you Man, however the guy just dropped $1200 on a new Twin Reverb and I'd feel bad telling him its "his problem." I've also been toying the idea of trying new speakers anyways. Just trying to be nice to the new guy. I just like that my 40watt DSL is burying his 80 watt Twin.



Maybe he should think about sending it back lol. Well, I hope you get it worked out. I wonder if the reverb is sucking his volume down? -Rod-


----------



## Jethro Rocker

If your amp is too loud for drums and monitors then turn down a bit of course I assume it's not, I agree, Twin boy needs to get a boost for it, run his mids higher, or get a Marshall! With my 40C I originally wanted to use lead channel for solos, run a boost on crunch and leave it in crunch mode with lower gain for cleans, adding pedal for crunch. Now, I'm gonna use clean for clean, OD1 for crunch, boost in loop for solos, boost crunch or OD1 for normal raunch. Again, I think it will work very well! Will keep you in the loop...


----------



## USAPatriot

Is anyone running anything other than a 12AX7 (or a stock ECC83) in V4? Being the phase inverter, it seems like most people are of the opinion that it doesn't matter what's there...function over form. But the PI's have always been a big question mark for me. Has Marshall done anything different in the DSL40C that should make us rethink the PI? Thanks. -Rod-


----------



## lordquilton

Marty recommends the Sylvania Gray Plate for V4 in this amp.
I agree. V4 was actually the first slot I rolled.
You need decent (but not great) speakers turned up a bit to hear the difference properly in these examples-

[SC]https://soundcloud.com/lordquilton/crunch-all-stock[/SC]

[SC]https://soundcloud.com/lordquilton/crunch-v123-stock-v4-sylvania[/SC]

It's hardly night and day, but on my modest Logitech 2.1 computer speakers there's more bass thump and a kind of compression on the palm muting with the NOS tube. It also seems to me the high end "fizz" is voiced a little lower with the old tube. Maybe someone would like to run these through a spectrum analyzer (no I'm not being a smart ass!) They're only MP3 @ 320 though.
Like I said, not a huge difference, but when you start rolling the other slots as well it all adds up I think.

One of these days I'm going to put the amp back to stock pre's and the Seventy80. I think it will still sound good, but noticeably colder/stiffer.


----------



## lordquilton

Pasloade74 said:


> Can you recommend another speaker for this amp other than a vintage 30. Our band recently added another guitar player and he plays a Fender twin reverb.



While I agree in a way with what has been said above (ie it's his problem not yours) I believe every individual in the band is subordinate to THE BAND. That means sacrifices so _the band_ sound it's best, yes?
Seems like you sort of go Iron Maiden, 2 guitars doing the roughly the same sound and the same parts to end up with one big part. Try to get the amps as far apart as possible so you're getting a sort of "stereo" thing, if you know what I mean 
OR
something more like Lynyrd Skynyrd with fairly different guitar sounds/parts that don't tread on each others feet. Maybe you could really bend over backwards and use something with single coils if he's using humbuckers or vice versa?

Like in the recording domain where they use frequency slotting to give each instrument room to breathe. You _both_ might have to go with a sound that isn't your favorite when playing by yourself, but makes a bigger and better 
"mix" when all the instruments are playing. You know, "the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts" kinda thing?

It would be hard I think if the room you rehearse in is on the small side.

Good luck!


----------



## DSMer

Hey guys,

If you want to sweeten up your DSL40C tone to a sickening level do this mod:

I replaced the .022uF V1-V3 Cathode bypass caps and PI coupling caps with Sprague Orange Drop 716's.






Tone caps in the EQ section which are also .022uF got replaced with Mallory 150's.





Result of the the high quality caps mod:
- Cleaned up the overall tone. 
- The EQ section is more responsive. 
- It got rid of the overall harshness. 
- The amp is dynamically richer at any volume level. 


In short words, the caps brought the best out the DSL40C.

I had to pull the PC board out completely. I had to discharge the caps first before anything else. There's a great deal of lethal voltage enough to kill.

Soldering the Mallory 150's in the EQ circuit is quite a challenge. It's very tight in there. The stock caps are too close together. 

The Sprague Orange Drop 716 I I've got have bigger gauge leads. It's a pita inserting them through the board. I had to do a good desoldering job to allow easier insertion.

My band hosted a jam night last Thursday and was able to put it through the test with astonishing results. The whole time I had the Treble, Middle and Bass, Presence, Resonance controls all set at midway. Before the caps replacement mods tone settings were all over the place. Now, I have more options with tone shaping with EQ knobs. The other guitar players at the jam didn't even bother tinkering with them. They leave the stage with great compliments.


No soundclips will do justice. You gotta play and hear it in person.


----------



## Micky

Couldn't find a Mallory radial?
Or did you just use what you had on hand?


----------



## dave999z

While I think footswitchable modes is cool in theory (ideally a four-button footswitch), in reality the green clean and green crunch modes are miles apart volume-wise, so even if you could switch between them easily, you'd also have to then adjust the green channel's volume knob for it to be useful. I've just accepted that the DSL is a 2-channel amp (hence the name!), it's not a JVM.


----------



## DSMer

Micky said:


> Couldn't find a Mallory radial?
> Or did you just use what you had on hand?



I haven't seen radial Mallory's. I used axial 150's that I bought from Granger Amps last December.

Mallory 150s, .0022uF @ 630V (2.2nF) [C-MD0022-630] - $0.65 : Granger Amplification Custom Shop, Your source for awesome tone!


----------



## oachs83

Jethro Rocker said:


> For those of you with a 40C that find the lack of footswitchable modes a bit limiting, I'm starting to use mine differently than I initially thought. A good boost up front and clean boost in loop ( preferably with some EQ control) and I now have a multitude of options:
> Clean
> Crunch
> Lead
> Boosted clean
> Boosted crunch
> The option to boost volume through loop in any of these modes plus you can change from one of the above sounds to another midsong with a pedal. For me that's plenty versatile! The big test mid June, the next big show for us when I get to give it a real workout! Cheers all!


 
Thanks for the tip on the boost. I just got my DSL40c yesterday and have a gig tonight. I was playing around with my pedal board experimenting with this amp and my clean boost (boosta grande) is always at the end of my chain in the front. With this amp on lead channels it seemed to top out like not make a difference at all. I read your post about putting it in the fx loop and WOOOO there it is. It works perfect and is louder than I have ever remembered. BTW my amp collection is not the best but this is now the best amp I own, the thing is great. It really does the Marshall sound well. I use a Klon clone for a little extra hair and it's all I need. I also put a Celestion V30 in it as well and for my playing and taste I love the speaker over the stocker.


----------



## USAPatriot

lordquilton said:


> Marty recommends the Sylvania Gray Plate for V4 in this amp.
> I agree. V4 was actually the first slot I rolled.
> You need decent (but not great) speakers turned up a bit to hear the difference properly in these examples-



The 5751? It's a little out of my price range, I'm afraid, (prices ranging from $50-$125, depending on where I look) but my Logitech 5.1 setup showed me the difference. It's amazing how good these little powered speakers really are. -Rod-


----------



## lordquilton

Marty did that tube for me for $35 a couple of months ago.
He also supplied me with a Raytheon Black Plate for V2 ($40) that has seen off all challengers.

Currently running a JJ ECC83S Gold Pin in V1. It's the only tube that had something to offer over the stock tube in that position so far.
Harmonically richer with throatier mids is how I've seen it described elsewhere, I'd say that was accurate. Nice round top end, stronger in the bass department too (over the stock).

Still want to try the Ruby 12AX7AC7 HG+ in V1. 
Some a-holes must have effed over Doug's Tubes bad, he want's nearly twice as much to ship here (Australia) as he wants for the actual tube.

And yeah I got the Logitech Z623 2.1's here. Great bass, very clear and fairly accurate for the price!


----------



## solarburn

lordquilton said:


> Marty did that tube for me for $35 a couple of months ago.
> He also supplied me with a Raytheon Black Plate for V2 ($40) that has seen off all challengers.
> 
> Currently running a JJ ECC83S Gold Pin in V1. It's the only tube that had something to offer over the stock tube in that position so far.
> Harmonically richer with throatier mids is how I've seen it described elsewhere, I'd say that was accurate. Nice round top end, stronger in the bass department too (over the stock).
> 
> Still want to try the Ruby 12AX7AC7 HG+ in V1.
> Some a-holes must have effed over Doug's Tubes bad, he want's nearly twice as much to ship here (Australia) as he wants for the actual tube.
> 
> And yeah I got the Logitech Z623 2.1's here. Great bass, very clear and fairly accurate for the price!



Man I hate to hear shipping is that much. No tube is worth that. Except the AC7HG+.

I keed!


----------



## USAPatriot

lol


----------



## lordquilton

Harumph!


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Old Mullard in V1, GE in V2. Never played around with PI tube yet, I will! Yes if you are using green clean, depending on gain setting, you have to either add distortion to front or switcb channels to go to crunch due to volume difference and as pointed out, it's a 2 channel amp with shared EQ but with some toys and ingenuity, you can get 5 or more distinct sounds without touching the amp during songs. Oachs83, if your boost has some EQ, you can tailor the solo tones even more! Have fun!


----------



## USAPatriot

I was practicing this evening and came up with a question for the group.

And now I don't remember it. 

CRS is a bitch. Carry on. -Rod-


----------



## saxon68

Rod have you tried any of those jet city analog tube replacements in your 40C yet?


----------



## dave999z

Swapped some preamp tubes this weekend, per Marty's excellent guidance.

Started from this:
v1 stock Marshall
v2 stock Marshall
v3 piece o crap groove tubes 12ax7-c
V4 piece o crap groove tubes 12ax7-c

I had put the groove tubes in because the stock tubes crapped out and I had those laying around.

Sound was meh. Fizzy. Ice picky. Some microphonics. I will say I had those issues with all stock tubes, even before I had to put those groove tubes in v3 and v4.

So...

Put a Ruby 12ax7a-c7 in v1. I thought it made the amp more responsive to picking and the volume knob. May have added some top end clarity. Still fizzy, ice picky, and some microphonics squeals.

Left that in and added a Mullard reissue to v2. Honestly didn't detect much of a change. Maybe a little more power and grit in green crunch mode when digging in on chords, with my strat on the out of phase bridge/middle pickup setting. And may have tamed a touch of fizz.

Left those in and added a TAD 7025 WA to v3. Wow. Huge improvement. Smoothed out some fizz, quieted some microphonics, but added some warmth/harmonics/sustain. Most noticeable playing leads on red od1 using neck pickup. Really moved the ball toward what I was looking for.

Left those in and put a Ruby 12ax7ACG HG (which is just a Ruby-selected JJ ECC83S) in v4. Another noticeable but more subtle improvement. Made red od1 power chords burn/rumble a bit more, made green crunch chords allow the individual strings to be more transparent.

With those 4 tubes in, it sounds pretty damn awesome now. These are just my initial observations, albeit with some ear fatigue, and of course this is not a blind test, and I added the set cumulatively rather than trying each tube individually. I'll probably try shuffling these around a bit and will post more observations later. But bottom line this is an awesome set of CP preamp tubes, for like $80 total.

Marty- you're awesome for all the advice you provided. I will definitely be coming back to you for some NOS tubes in the future (the set you sold me for my main rig awhile back have been spectacular).


----------



## USAPatriot

saxon68 said:


> Rod have you tried any of those jet city analog tube replacements in your 40C yet?



I have not but am planning to. I have one of each flavor, green, yellow and red. I seems like a yellow or red in V2 and/or a green in V3 might be interesting. It might add some umph to the green channel and maybe tone down OD2 a little bit, make it more usable at higher gain settings...or not. They sounded ok in the Jet City JCA22H...hard to say if they'd do as well in the Marshall. -Rod-


----------



## Gary Nelson

I have been a musician since 1960, bought my first Marshall amp in the 70s, I had the 80s JCM 100w 2x12 speaker Combo, great amp, I also had the half stack JCM 2000, 250w switchable channel I bought in 81, and had both of them until 3 years ago. I stopped playing in bands in the late 80s, really never thought I would pick up my guitar and play again until 2011 when I got laid off from work after 33 years with the same company, so needing money I sold my Marshall amps thinking I would never need them. I tried another company and lasted there for a year, then got laid off again. I then decided maybe I can make a few dollars at playing music again. So this is when I started looking at amps again, my first try was the Marshall MG 100w digital, I did try it at the store and actually thought it didn't sound half bad, I of course thought after all these years they fixed the digital technology from my old playing days. I was sadly mistaken after using the amp for practice and a few jobs, I just could not make the sound do what I needed. so I sold it and bought the DSL40c thinking this is a tube amp and that should resolve my issues, well it did for about a month, as I was learning how to use the settings I kept telling myself it was me and I just have not found the correct setting yet. But really that was all a waste of my time and money because this DSL will never sound like my JCM Combo unless someone changes the guts on the inside of the amp. I am selling this amp now and will buy the JVM215c, I tried one with my guitar and was honestly happy with the sound for the first time in a year and half. I have to credit all those players on here a lot with the way they jump right into this DSL40c and work all the different changes that are discussed on here, and yes I tried some of the mods, it didn't help me with the sound I was looking for. anyway, long story short I have a DSL40c less then a year old, I reversed the MODS and it is back to the factory condition I would like to sell, make me a offer, it is in mint condition, I bought it October of 2013.
Thanks
Gary..


----------



## Micky

Gary Nelson said:


> long story short I have a DSL40c less then a year old, I reversed the MODS and it is back to the factory condition I would like to sell, make me a offer, it is in mint condition, I bought it October of 2013.
> Thanks
> Gary..



Gary - Put it in the Classified section with your pertinent info and maybe a photo or two.
Should go rather quickly...


----------



## Micky

USAPatriot said:


> I have not but am planning to. I have one of each flavor, green, yellow and red. I seems like a yellow or red in V2 and/or a green in V3 might be interesting. It might add some umph to the green channel and maybe tone down OD2 a little bit, make it more usable at higher gain settings...or not. They sounded ok in the Jet City JCA22H...hard to say if they'd do as well in the Marshall. -Rod-



I also am curious to hear how they sound.

Adding umph to the green channel via V2 will not tame ODII.
You may wanna boost V1 and then cut V2 gain a little, seems like it might work better for what you might be after...


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> I also am curious to hear how they sound.
> 
> Adding umph to the green channel via V2 will not tame ODII.
> You may wanna boost V1 and then cut V2 gain a little, seems like it might work better for what you might be after...



Correct. It's an either/or proposition. I'm probably more inclined to want a gustier crunch than a milder OD, though sometimes I like to play in the red channel. I may try the green in V4 first to see if it tames the OD2 enough to make me want to stay there, if not, I'd likely boost V2. I don't think I want to put one into V1 though maybe the noise floor of the green is low enough to make it useful with something else in V3. At some point I plan on taking them apart and seeing what makes them tick. The silhouette seems to show a diode in there, but what else is there, I don't know. -Rod-


----------



## Micky

I just went thru all this in my DSL5c...
Ended up with a 12AT7 in V2.
Made the gain SO much more controlable.

To me the DSL40c is fine, as I have a gain control on the Classic Channel and on the DSL5c, I don't. A 12AT7 tamed the gain only a tiny amount on the Ultra Channel.

But then again, I know how to tun down the gain...


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> I just went thru all this in my DSL5c...
> Ended up with a 12AT7 in V2.
> Made the gain SO much more controlable.
> 
> To me the DSL40c is fine, as I have a gain control on the Classic Channel and on the DSL5c, I don't. A 12AT7 tamed the gain only a tiny amount on the Ultra Channel.
> 
> But then again, I know how to tun down the gain...



Apples and oranges, though.

In the 40C, the green channel needs more crunch. What is there though, sounds fine. The red channel has more than enough OD, it's just not usable.

Green: Quality good, quantity lacking.
Red: Quantity good, quality lacking.

I'm still waiting on 3 tubes to come in, an ECC83s for V1 plus the power tubes, I still need to lift C-19, decide what I want to do about C20...if anything...and there's still a choke waiting to go in. I need the tubes here before I start. I don't want to take the chassis out repeatedly to work on it.

Hey, I remembered my question!

I mostly play in triode mode...half power, right? Does it make ANY difference which mode I'm in when I bias the power tubes?

FWIW, I intend to check the bias in both modes both before and after the tube swap...but I've never seen the question come up or anyone mention it. I just thought I'd ask. -Rod-


----------



## Micky

Rod if I was you, I would wait to clip C19 until after the choke is installed.
While the choke in mine didn't do anything for the treble, it sure did strengthen the bass response. That, coupled with the Man-O-War speaker, made me put back the C19 except I used 180 pf.

Shouldn't make any difference in the bias with the half-power switch. The only thing important there is to put it in stand-by when flipping that switch - it is not rated like the stand-by switch. Measure the bias before and after (both ways) and confirm this if you can.

The only thing the Classic Crunch channel is missing versus the Ultra Channel is V1b. This is why you can easily put in a hi-gain tube in that slot like the Ruby AC7 and reduce the gain in V2 and possibly accomplish what you want. Should add some balls to the Classic Crunch IMO.


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> Rod if I was you, I would wait to clip C19 until after the choke is installed.
> While the choke in mine didn't do anything for the treble, it sure did strengthen the bass response. That, coupled with the Man-O-War speaker, made me put back the C19 except I used 180 pf.
> 
> Shouldn't make any difference in the bias with the half-power switch. The only thing important there is to put it in stand-by when flipping that switch - it is not rated like the stand-by switch. Measure the bias before and after (both ways) and confirm this if you can.
> 
> The only thing the Classic Crunch channel is missing versus the Ultra Channel is V1b. This is why you can easily put in a hi-gain tube in that slot like the Ruby AC7 and reduce the gain in V2 and possibly accomplish what you want. Should add some balls to the Classic Crunch IMO.



K, I'll wait on the C-19 since it's the easiest of the tasks anyhow, but not as easy to undo. And yup, I know about switching from triode to pentode mode. I'll go a step further and shut the power off completely. I do that anyway when I make changes in pedals and such and it just takes an extra few seconds. I'll definitely document everything and post anything notable, video too if it's pertinent, like different bias values in the different modes. I'd guess that I'll be biasing it for the mode I use if they are different. -Rod-


----------



## dave999z

Quick Q... How hard is it to pull the chassis out of the DSL40c? (Is it like 2 screws, or 20?)


----------



## Micky

Closer to 20.
Unplug the power cord
Need to remove the back (12 screws maybe?)
Then remove 4 larger chassis screws from the top
Remove the speaker plug/cable
Carefully slide out the chassis


----------



## dave999z

Micky said:


> Closer to 20.
> Unplug the power cord
> Need to remove the back (12 screws maybe?)
> Then remove 4 larger chassis screws from the top
> Remove the speaker plug/cable
> Carefully slide out the chassis



Thanks. I guess I should have asked how hard is it after removing the back. So there are only four screws holding the chassis in? Are those accessed from underneath the chassis? (I'm not in front of my amp right now.)


----------



## Micky

Screws for the chassis are accessed from the top of the combo. #2 or #3 Phillips bit.


----------



## USAPatriot

dave999z said:


> Thanks. I guess I should have asked how hard is it after removing the back. So there are only four screws holding the chassis in? Are those accessed from underneath the chassis? (I'm not in front of my amp right now.)



They are right on top. Be careful sliding the chassis out and back in. Sometimes it's a bit sticky and too much force could lead to a problem. Mine has a very tight fit. There's clearance enough to lay the amp flat and not put pressure on the knobs but if you're on a carpet you may want to create a little extra clearance since the amp will sink due to the weight and maybe put pressure on the controls. I put down a couple of 1x4's and lay the amp on it so the knobs don't get into my carpet. -Rod-


----------



## dave999z

This may be a stupid question, but if this amp has two bias trim pots, is it even necessary to use a matched pair of power tubes? Seems like if they're unmatched you'd just adjust that while biasing.


----------



## dave999z

USAPatriot said:


> They are right on top. Be careful sliding the chassis out and back in. Sometimes it's a bit sticky and too much force could lead to a problem. Mine has a very tight fit. There's clearance enough to lay the amp flat and not put pressure on the knobs but if you're on a carpet you may want to create a little extra clearance since the amp will sink due to the weight and maybe put pressure on the controls. I put down a couple of 1x4's and lay the amp on it so the knobs don't get into my carpet. -Rod-



Thanks!


----------



## USAPatriot

dave999z said:


> This may be a stupid question, but if this amp has two bias trim pots, is it even necessary to use a matched pair of power tubes? Seems like if they're unmatched you'd just adjust that while biasing.



I believe it is better to used matched pairs but likely not completely necessary. A mismatched set means you've got two tubes with different characteristics, which makes your tone a crapshoot. If far enough apart I think there could be a 'phasing' problem. It also means that one half of the circuit is working harder than the other. At the end of the day I figure there's a very good reason that Marshall sends the amps out with matched pairs. -Rod-


----------



## Micky

dave999z said:


> This may be a stupid question, but if this amp has two bias trim pots, is it even necessary to use a matched pair of power tubes? Seems like if they're unmatched you'd just adjust that while biasing.



Good question, and, no. You don't HAVE to use a matched pair, but as Rob says, it is all about balance. You always want to have both sides of the amp working well, if one is constantly working harder than the other, it will stress components unevenly and possibly lead to problems down the road.

No two tubes will ever be perfectly matched, but to get them as close as possible is the best bet.


----------



## YetiVanMarshall

Is 40 watts on a dsl40 misleading. I'm playing my week old unit at half power and cannot turn it up past 3 on the volume I'm using about 1-2 on the gain setting and afraid to knock down my pictures. I generally play grateful dead, blues, jazz, and other numerous cleanish sounds. Also, at the volumes I'm describing will I ever really break the speaker in? Why does this amp seem so much louder than my 30 watt roland cube?
Thx


----------



## Micky

YetiVanMarshall said:


> Is 40 watts on a dsl40 misleading. I'm playing my week old unit at half power and cannot turn it up past 3 on the volume I'm using about 1-2 on the gain setting and afraid to knock down my pictures. I generally play grateful dead, blues, jazz, and other numerous cleanish sounds. Also, at the volumes I'm describing will I ever really break the speaker in? Why does this amp seem so much louder than my 30 watt roland cube?
> Thx



A lot of the perceived loudness may come from your guitar and pickups, the 40c is an efficient amp in that respect. It is very responsive to different types of pickups, but whatever you choose they can be very dynamic depending on guitar volume.

The 70/80 is a relatively inefficient speaker at only 98db, some people choose to install a much more efficient speaker that can make the amp even louder. A 101db speaker will effectively double the output, and a 103db speaker will do even more. 

For me, the only thing the half-power switch did was reduce my clean headroom. Starts to get pretty 'gainy' past 4-5, even with the gain turned down. With all the gain that is available on the new DSL's I am not surprised you noticed what you have.


----------



## DSMer

YetiVanMarshall said:


> Is 40 watts on a dsl40 misleading. I'm playing my week old unit at half power and cannot turn it up past 3 on the volume I'm using about 1-2 on the gain setting and afraid to knock down my pictures. I generally play grateful dead, blues, jazz, and other numerous cleanish sounds. Also, at the volumes I'm describing will I ever really break the speaker in? Why does this amp seem so much louder than my 30 watt roland cube?
> Thx




DSL40C - Tube *40watts* *RMS*
Roland Cube 30 - Solid State *30watts* *peak*

Here's a good read about Tube vs. Solid State wattage:

logictortured.com Blog » Why Do Tube Amps Sound Louder Than Solid State Amps?


----------



## JEB

dave999z said:


> This may be a stupid question, but if this amp has two bias trim pots, is it even necessary to use a matched pair of power tubes? Seems like if they're unmatched you'd just adjust that while biasing.



I tried some unmatched tubes a few months back in mine.
They were just too far out to get to bias correctly.
One tube would only get up to ~17mV and the other was in the 50s.

I guess the easiest answer would be to just try them and see if you can get them to bias.


----------



## dave999z

Is the rubber grommet on the v1 preamp tube supposed to be wedged into the hole cutout on the metal chassis? The rubber ring has a groove in it that I assume is supposed to be seated into the metal frame. But mine wasn't like that from the factory. It just had the rubber ring around the tube, but it was just placed around the tube, without the rubber even touching the chassis. Which seems... Pointless.

And... Why no rubber rings on the other premp tubes? And why no rings for the power tubes?


----------



## Micky

No. It won't fit easily, and if you try to force it, you may break things.
Just seat the tube squarely, and push on the grommet.
It is only there to try to tame microphonics. Not to seal anything...

V1 is most susceptible to microphonics. Take a pencil and tap on it sometime after it has warmed up. The grommet actually tries to suppress resonant frequencies that are developed with certain notes. Other tubes are not that susceptible, although they can go microphonic if there is a problem inside the tube.


----------



## USAPatriot

dave999z said:


> Is the rubber grommet on the v1 preamp tube supposed to be wedged into the hole cutout on the metal chassis? The rubber ring has a groove in it that I assume is supposed to be seated into the metal frame. But mine wasn't like that from the factory. It just had the rubber ring around the tube, but it was just placed around the tube, without the rubber even touching the chassis. Which seems... Pointless.
> 
> And... Why no rubber rings on the other premp tubes? And why no rings for the power tubes?



I hadn't thought about this before, but since a lot of microphonics are due to RFI sources outside of the amp the rubber grommet, being an insulator, could serve to 'detune' the microphonics depending on it's placement along the tube. If anyone's familiar with HAM antennas or various scanner antennas, there's full wave, half wave, quarter wave, etc...according to how much of the full frequency wave the antenna is designed to intercept and send to the radio. Placing this insulating grommet along different points on the tube 'could' serve to cut microphonics by keeping a 'proper' portion of the wave from entering the tube, which in effect cuts the interference. If the tube is acting like an antenna, the grommet would be 'detuning' the antenna and rejecting the signal based on it's placement. Just a theory, and if correct, the proper placement is likely at the halfway point of the length of the plates.. -Rod-


----------



## bman

Throw a Tung-Sol ressiue in V1 and lead one becomes more usable, up to about noon position. Smooths out the gain adds a fuller more balanced sound. The Tung-Sol has been The Top seller w/ most online tube companies the last few years for a reason. Worked wonders for me. I also tried Ruby HG5+ , Groove tubes, and JJ's in v1. All had a slightly different effect but all were also too thin and shrill for me. Good luck and have fun!


----------



## USAPatriot

bman said:


> Throw a Tung-Sol ressiue in V1 and lead one becomes more usable, up to about noon position. Smooths out the gain adds a fuller more balanced sound. The Tung-Sol has been The Top seller w/ most online tube companies the last few years for a reason. Worked wonders for me. I also tried Ruby HG5+ , Groove tubes, and JJ's in v1. All had a slightly different effect but all were also too thin and shrill for me. Good luck and have fun!



I love this tool:

https://tubedepot.com/tube-comparison-tool


----------



## bman

Yes That site and two others suggested the Tung-Sol for my DSL. Spoke to them via toll free number. You know old school style.


----------



## oachs83

Just a visual comparison of the original Celestion 70/80 16ohm speaker with a Celestion V30 8ohm










The much larger magnet on the V30 is first thing you will notice and also the frame of the speaker seems to be a little beefier gauge. The construction all around just seems to be better






I am not very educated on the actual components of a speaker but I did notice the cone on the V30 is smaller in diameter and not sure if that is a good thing or not a big deal?






The V30 definitely has more bass in it and the sound seems much warmer and more that classic rock sound we all know. I should not comment too much to be fair I am bias and love the V30 sound and stick them in everything I have. You will add a little more weight to the amp as this speaker is a couple pounds heavier. Also you will add more decibels as I noticed this speaker to be a little louder. All in all I am very glad I made the swap.


----------



## USAPatriot

I definitely noticed the difference in weight between the 70/80 and the Vintage 30. I seem to recall that the 70/80 has a 35 ounce magnet while the V30's is 50 ounces. 

While I'm thinking about speakers, is it worth my effort to ditch the speaker wire slip-on clips and just solder the wires in place? The clips seem to fit snugly but a solder job would create a far better connection. I just don't know if it'd make an actual difference. Thoughts? -Rod-


----------



## Jethro Rocker

A couple of points re above - the volume difference can also be in the taper of the pot. My 40C is louder at 3 than my 50 watt Jube at 5 but just over 5 the Jube kicks it up bigtime. There's also very little difference between 30 and 40 or 40 and 50, all things being equal. The 40C is a loud little amp though!
I put the rubber grommet in the chassis as it was from factory and used a bit of spittle on the tube and it went in fine. I presume there would be even more isolation with the grommet fitted properly.


----------



## Micky

USAPatriot said:


> I hadn't thought about this before, but since a lot of microphonics are due to RFI sources outside of the amp the rubber grommet, being an insulator, could serve to 'detune' the microphonics depending on it's placement along the tube. If anyone's familiar with HAM antennas or various scanner antennas, there's full wave, half wave, quarter wave, etc...according to how much of the full frequency wave the antenna is designed to intercept and send to the radio. Placing this insulating grommet along different points on the tube 'could' serve to cut microphonics by keeping a 'proper' portion of the wave from entering the tube, which in effect cuts the interference. If the tube is acting like an antenna, the grommet would be 'detuning' the antenna and rejecting the signal based on it's placement. Just a theory, and if correct, the proper placement is likely at the halfway point of the length of the plates.. -Rod-



You must be smoking the same stuff Dreyn does...

Microphonic tubes are caused by vibration, not RFI. The rubber dampens small vibrations in the glass that are picked up when notes are played thru the amp. Rubber will do nothing to affect any type of radio wave; waves will pass thru a relatively sparse material such as rubber rather easily.

The metal shield that is installed on many preamp tubes is for shielding RFI.


----------



## dave999z

So, the rubber grommet is or isn't supposed to be seated in the metal chassis? Mine was definitely NOT from the factory. But looks to me like it should have been.


----------



## Micky

NOT. You may notice other amps with rubber o-rings on the tubes...
They aren't seated within the chassis and really shouldn't be, if they are they can actually be detrimental to the intended purpose.

Sure, you may be able to make them fit, but that is stressing the components as well as possibly transmitting more vibration to the tube.


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> You must be smoking the same stuff Dreyn does...
> 
> Microphonic tubes are caused by vibration, not RFI. The rubber dampens small vibrations in the glass that are picked up when notes are played thru the amp. Rubber will do nothing to affect any type of radio wave; waves will pass thru a relatively sparse material such as rubber rather easily.
> 
> The metal shield that is installed on many preamp tubes is for shielding RFI.



lol. I'm not going to argue the point of microphonic tubes picking up ceiling fans, the neighbor's air conditioner, the microwave, etc. It happens. -Rod-


----------



## DSMer

Tube dampers on my DSL40C:


----------



## USAPatriot

I think that's a good idea, especially in a combo. At one time I used thick rubber bands in my Fender Pro Jr. They'd become brittle every 6 months and I'd replace them. Cheap. -Rod-


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Micky said:


> NOT. You may notice other amps with rubber o-rings on the tubes...
> They aren't seated within the chassis and really shouldn't be, if they are they can actually be detrimental to the intended purpose.
> 
> Sure, you may be able to make them fit, but that is stressing the components as well as possibly transmitting more vibration to the tube.



Mine came factory seated in chassis, otherwise what's the point of the groove in the ring? Mine's in there now...I think I'll leave it, don't wanna monkey with it. Plus I don't understand how the ring on V2 in the pic above dampens anything as it's just sitting around the tube, not touching chassis anywhere. I think I'm missing something and I don't even smoke what dreyn does...or anyone else for that matter....


----------



## lordquilton

Hmm, I think it's like holding a wine glass by the base and flicking the bowl with your fingernail. It vibrates, and that's bad in the case of vacuum tube.
If you stick a rubber band around the bowl of the wine glass, it dampens the vibration.

I think what Micky is saying is because the chassis is fixed to the mdf outer structure, whatever vibrations are happening _there_ would be transmitted to the tube if the grommet is in contact with the chassis.


----------



## MarkJ

In case anyone is interested, I've just posted a video of how I added LED lights to my DLS 40c foot switch. So far this setup seems to be working just fine, and it's nice having the indicators on the pedal.

How To Install LED Lights On a Marshall DSL 40c Food Switch (Channel Select & Reverb)

I hope it helps others.

Mark


----------



## Micky

Nice first post Mark. Welcome aboard.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

lordquilton said:


> Hmm, I think it's like holding a wine glass by the base and flicking the bowl with your fingernail. It vibrates, and that's bad in the case of vacuum tube.
> If you stick a rubber band around the bowl of the wine glass, it dampens the vibration.
> 
> I think what Micky is saying is because the chassis is fixed to the mdf outer structure, whatever vibrations are happening _there_ would be transmitted to the tube if the grommet is in contact with the chassis.



Aha. Makes sense to me now, thanks. Hmmmm.. I may have to change mine. Nice description. PS is your avatar an Ibanez Prestige....bubinga?


----------



## dave999z

Put new power tubes in today... A pair of Groove Tubes EL34M. These are apparently custom spec Chinese (Shuguang) tubes made for Groove Tubes. They were only $39 at Amazon.

[ame]http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001RF1Z4M/ref=gno_cart_title_0?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER[/ame]


The pair I received was rated "6" from Groove Tubes.

Checked the bias on the stock tubes before yanking them. One was biased at about 65%, the other was only 52%. Pretty sure that tube is going bad (or always was), as opposed to them not setting the bias properly at the factory, because when I popped the new pair in, before even adjusting the bias trim pots, they read much closer together, and the new tube on the same side where the bad tube was actually read a tiny bit higher than the other new tube.

Anyway, the new tubes read at around 75% and 77%.

Turned them down and tried them at around 60%, 65%, and 70%. I had heard these particular tubes sound better around 60%. But I thought they sounded better hotter. I ended up setting them around 67.7%. Specifically... Plate voltage 461, and idle current 41.7 (that includes about 5mA screen current because I used a Weber bias probe, not a multimeter). Once it had warmed up for 15-20 minutes, reading was very stable on both sides. Having a separate trim pot for each tube is great.

Now the sound... With the caveat that one of my stock tubes clearly had a problem, the EL34Ms sound and feel better to me. It's subtle, but green crunch seems to have a bit more dynamic crunch on tap depending on how hard you hit the strings, and the break up sounds good. The out of phase strat pickup position really has a nice crystal clarity, that you can break up if you hit it hard. OD1 seems to have a bit more sustain and be warmer for leads. Like I said it's subtle but noticeable. Would probably be more noticeable if I played with it dimed all the time, but I don't. All in all, great tubes for $39, assuming they don't crap out in a month.


----------



## Micky

Nice that everything worked out well. More people need to learn how to do this.

Did you notice any difference in the reverb? I did with my new TAD EL34b STR pair.
I don't know how in the world new finals could affect the reverb, but it seems to have 'woken up' mine in a good way. I still need to max it out on the Classic Channel, but at least now I KNOW it works...


----------



## dave999z

Micky said:


> Nice that everything worked out well. More people need to learn how to do this.
> 
> Did you notice any difference in the reverb? I did with my new TAD EL34b STR pair.
> I don't know how in the world new finals could affect the reverb, but it seems to have 'woken up' mine in a good way. I still need to max it out on the Classic Channel, but at least now I KNOW it works...



Did your reverb work at all before? Mine did, but I think it's a crap reverb (and I wouldn't use much reverb anyway), so I never use it. And I actually haven't even clicked the reverb on since I swapped tubes. Pretty much hate this amp's built in reverb, wish they had just left it out.


----------



## Micky

dave999z said:


> Did your reverb work at all before? Mine did, but I think it's a crap reverb (and I wouldn't use much reverb anyway), so I never use it. And I actually haven't even clicked the reverb on since I swapped tubes. Pretty much hate this amp's built in reverb, wish they had just left it out.



See, that's the thing. I think it was really weak before, but now I love it. Sure, it is not deep like my Fender, but it works. I only use it on the Classic Channel. I am thinking about adding a reverb pedal, but I despise pedals.

If the right one fell into my lap I might use it...


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> See, that's the thing. I think it was really weak before, but now I love it. Sure, it is not deep like my Fender, but it works. I only use it on the Classic Channel. I am thinking about adding a reverb pedal, but I despise pedals.
> 
> If the right one fell into my lap I might use it...



I'm enjoying my BOSS RV-5, Micky. Pedals aren't especially my cup of tea, either. My BOSS GT-10 has been sitting on the floor for months, not hooked up to anything. After I bought my LP Standard I occasionally used the tuner in the GT to double-check the tuning work of the Min-Etune, especially in non-standard tunings, but no more. But I need a decent reverb and this one is very flexible. With the settings I have (pictured) the guitar will pretty much sustain forever but without any modulations or echo or anything else. It's pricey at ~$170 though. Another reason I don't like pedals. They used to be cheaper. This one will definitely let you dial in much more interesting things as well, good if someone is recording. This one works very well with the 40C and unlike the native one, you know it's there. Right now I'm running it into the front end. -Rod-


----------



## dave999z

Just played a bit with the reverb on. It still sucks.

I never found that the reverb level was hard to hear (like you couldn't even tell if it's on) as some have complained. I can hear tons of muddy, crap digital reverb. So, no, the new power tubes haven't helped in my opinion. Maybe you jiggled something in the board when you were changing tubes, and that's what woke the reverb up. Can't see the power tubes themselves mattering.

I have a strymon reverb pedal that sounds awesome. But I don't really love pedals either. For me sually it's guitar straight into the dsl40c with the reverb turned off and that's fine. I've got some natural reverb in my room though.


----------



## dave999z

Ugh, now my amp's making a humming sound. Either channel, as soon as I take it off standby, just a constant low huummmmmmmmm on a low B.

Well crap. I'll troubleshoot this tomorrow.


----------



## lordquilton

Jethro Rocker said:


> Aha. Makes sense to me now, thanks. Hmmmm.. I may have to change mine. Nice description. PS is your avatar an Ibanez Prestige....bubinga?



It's an S970CW (Premium not Prestige, w/ Claro Walnut top)
S970CW - Ibanez Wiki

This years version has a wenge/bubinga neck and rosewood top-

Electric Guitars S - S970WRW PREMIUM | Ibanez guitars

Yum.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Mine is a Prestige S5470? I think... Bubinga. Such great axes to play!!


----------



## dave999z

Found the source of the hum...

Opened it back up and one of the new power tubes was not even glowing.

Swapped positions and the same tube (now in the other spot) does not even glow. Well, there you go... The life of Groove tubes is approximately 2 hours. Really frustrating.

They're going back.

Not sure if I'll try another GT set or just get the TAD EL34B-STR.


----------



## USAPatriot

dave999z said:


> Found the source of the hum...
> 
> Opened it back up and one of the new power tubes was not even glowing.
> 
> Swapped positions and the same tube (now in the other spot) does not even glow. Well, there you go... The life of Groove tubes is approximately 2 hours. Really frustrating.
> 
> They're going back.
> 
> Not sure if I'll try another GT set or just get the TAD EL34B-STR.



That sucks.


----------



## MarkJ

Greatwhitenorth said:


> Half the time I can't tell if my reverb is even on. I wish the foot switch or the front panel had a LED so you could tell. Still not a deal breaker for me.


You're not alone, but I think I've solved it.

Add LEDs to Your Marshall DSL40c Foot Switch


----------



## dave999z

USAPatriot said:


> That sucks.



Yeah, at least they were easy to return. Decided to give another pair a try. They'll be here Monday. Let's hope the next pair lasts at least 4 hours instead of just 2.


----------



## USAPatriot

dave999z said:


> Yeah, at least they were easy to return. Decided to give another pair a try. They'll be here Monday. Let's hope the next pair lasts at least 4 hours instead of just 2.



One can hope! -Rod-


----------



## ToneWarrior

Micky said:


> See, that's the thing. I think it was really weak before, but now I love it. Sure, it is not deep like my Fender, but it works. I only use it on the Classic Channel. I am thinking about adding a reverb pedal, but I despise pedals.
> 
> If the right one fell into my lap I might use it...



I've never owned a reverb pedal in my life but with the lack of reverb in the DSL40 and no reverb at all in my JVMHJS I bought the Boss FRV-1 and I love it. I can't tell that it's a pedal. It makes me wish that the JVMHJS had reverb instead of the Gate.


----------



## lordquilton

Jethro Rocker said:


> Mine is a Prestige S5470? I think... Bubinga. Such great axes to play!!
> 
> That's an S1520 Figured Bubinga. Very nice man.
> I had to change out the pickups to Duncan's on the Premium, but otherwise it's been great.


----------



## saxon68

Still not understanding the no reverb thing, mine has tons. I'll try to get a clip up for comparison tomorrow.


----------



## USAPatriot

saxon68 said:


> Still not understanding the no reverb thing, mine has tons. I'll try to get a clip up for comparison tomorrow.



Way earlier in the thread, it was mentioned (I forget by whom, sorry) that the reverb PCB is connected via a bus. It basically just presses in place from what I gathered from the post. I wonder if maybe we all just need to ensure that it's firmly seated in it's plug? I've eyeballed that board and can't see anything there that might possibly be modded to improve the output, but with no schematic or diagram telling us how it works, who can say? It'd be nice if we could just swap a component out...even better if Marshall would offer a replacement as it is CLEARLY lacking. It's just barely better than having no reverb at all, and for some owners, exactly the same as having no reverb at all. I have an idea. I'll get back to everyone on that. -Rod-


----------



## CarlosPrex

MarkJ said:


> In case anyone is interested, I've just posted a video of how I added LED lights to my DLS 40c foot switch. So far this setup seems to be working just fine, and it's nice having the indicators on the pedal.
> 
> How To Install LED Lights On a Marshall DSL 40c Food Switch (Channel Select & Reverb)
> 
> I hope it helps others.
> 
> Mark



Thanks Mark!
This is exactly the kind of stuff why I love this thread

I´ll definitely install those leds, but I would like going further: 
what about installing a 1/4" jack on the footswitch?


----------



## saxon68

Ok reverb clip. All at bedroom levels (master under 1) with iPhone. Treble@5 mid@6 bass@4 pres and res at 5. Clean no crunch gain at 2, ultra 1 gain 5 no messing with guitar volume knob. Reverb starting 0 and increased about 2 at each turn.

Stock speaker broken in about a year now all tubes OEM except EH in V1.

Not playing anything fancy as I'm sick as a dog.

Marshall DSL40C reverb test - YouTube


----------



## mat_79

Hi, I have a DSL40C. I have a Marshall chassis that accommodates a 10" speaker. I wanted to turn it into a small ext. cabinet. I spoke to Celestion about getting the right speaker and they suggested the G10 Vintage (16ohm, 60w). I'm going to be playing/recording at home so the volume will be pretty low. With that in mind...is this speaker a bit OTT being 60w?


----------



## Jethro Rocker

That's about like mine, I wouldn't call it tons. The old spring in the TSL has way more. I use a reverb in the loop anyhow but was disappointed by the lack of lush verb on the 40, for digital, you'd think there would be wide parameters.


----------



## saxon68

Sorry I may have overstated, my last amp had no reverb. Still I wouldn't say it's lacking.


----------



## Donny K

I just received my DSL 40C and I love the sound of it. I first want to state that this is my first all tube amp. I have been playing on and off since 1979. I have been on again everyday since July 4, 2013. Is it normal for the ultra gain channel to have so much noise or hum if I turn the gain or volume past 2. I have tried it with a new Epiphone Sheraton II, a Gibson Explorer and a Mexican Strat. The Strat is the worse and I figured it was the single coil pick ups but the other 2 make noise as well. The classic crunch channel is quiet clean or with the crunch setting turned on. Any information would be appreciated.

Thanks, Donnny K


----------



## Pumpkin88

Donny K said:


> I just received my DSL 40C and I love the sound of it. I first want to state that this is my first all tube amp. I have been playing on and off since 1979. I have been on again everyday since July 4, 2013. Is it normal for the ultra gain channel to have so much noise or hum if I turn the gain or volume past 2. I have tried it with a new Epiphone Sheraton II, a Gibson Explorer and a Mexican Strat. The Strat is the worse and I figured it was the single coil pick ups but the other 2 make noise as well. The classic crunch channel is quiet clean or with the crunch setting turned on. Any information would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks, Donnny K



Not sure if your referring to the hiss or guitar feedback but ultra 2 is noisy for me too but I'm used to it. You can help elimate that by changing out the preamp tubes but keep in mind you will change the character sounds of the amp.


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## Micky

Does the amp still make the noise when the guitar is unplugged?


----------



## dave999z

Alright, received my replacement pair of Groove Tubes EL34M power tubes today. This pair has a Groove Tubes rating of 7. Put them in and biased them up with no problem. Again, I played through them set at about 60%, 65%, and 70%. And again I liked the hottest setting MUCH better. (Although the amp in general sounds pretty bad while taken apart.) It was a huge difference. Set at 60% they sounded brittle and shrieky. At 65% they mellowed a bit. At 70% they sounded awesome... much rounder and smoother, really nice break up on green crunch, and pretty smooth sustain for leads on ultra lead1. Final settings were plate voltage 450 and idle current (including screen current) 43.7 on each side, which calculates to 69.7% bias. That is with the amp having been on and playing through it for like 40 min. I wasn't seeing the numbers drift from there. I know it's not necessary to bias so close to 70% just for the sake of it, but this pair sounds much better to me like that. Which is weird because I've heard several others say they thought these tubes sounded terrible when biased hot and really shined down around 60%. There's either a lot of variability, or we just prefer different sounds/feel.

Now, let's hope this pair lasts more than 2 hours!


----------



## dave999z

In fact these tubes make the amp sound so damn good I just can't stop playing through it.


----------



## MarshallDog

dave999z said:


> Alright, received my replacement pair of Groove Tubes EL34M power tubes today. This pair has a Groove Tubes rating of 7. Put them in and biased them up with no problem. Again, I played through them set at about 60%, 65%, and 70%. And again I liked the hottest setting MUCH better. (Although the amp in general sounds pretty bad while taken apart.) It was a huge difference. Set at 60% they sounded brittle and shrieky. At 65% they mellowed a bit. At 70% they sounded awesome... much rounder and smoother, really nice break up on green crunch, and pretty smooth sustain for leads on ultra lead1. Final settings were plate voltage 450 and idle current (including screen current) 43.7 on each side, which calculates to 69.7% bias. That is with the amp having been on and playing through it for like 40 min. I wasn't seeing the numbers drift from there. I know it's not necessary to bias so close to 70% just for the sake of it, but this pair sounds much better to me like that. Which is weird because I've heard several others say they thought these tubes sounded terrible when biased hot and really shined down around 60%. There's either a lot of variability, or we just prefer different sounds/feel.
> 
> Now, let's hope this pair lasts more than 2 hours!



+1 on the 70% bias level! my favorite bias setting


----------



## USAPatriot

dave999z said:


> Alright, received my replacement pair of Groove Tubes EL34M power tubes today. This pair has a Groove Tubes rating of 7. Put them in and biased them up with no problem. Again, I played through them set at about 60%, 65%, and 70%. And again I liked the hottest setting MUCH better. (Although the amp in general sounds pretty bad while taken apart.) It was a huge difference. Set at 60% they sounded brittle and shrieky. At 65% they mellowed a bit. At 70% they sounded awesome... much rounder and smoother, really nice break up on green crunch, and pretty smooth sustain for leads on ultra lead1. Final settings were plate voltage 450 and idle current (including screen current) 43.7 on each side, which calculates to 69.7% bias. That is with the amp having been on and playing through it for like 40 min. I wasn't seeing the numbers drift from there. I know it's not necessary to bias so close to 70% just for the sake of it, but this pair sounds much better to me like that. Which is weird because I've heard several others say they thought these tubes sounded terrible when biased hot and really shined down around 60%. There's either a lot of variability, or we just prefer different sounds/feel.
> 
> Now, let's hope this pair lasts more than 2 hours!



How did you arrive at 43.7?

.7 *25/450 = .03888 -Rod-


----------



## Micky

Yeah, seems closer to 80%...

If you use 20W dissipation, (DSL40c is a 40W amp...) 70% is about 31mv.
90% is about 40mv at that (20W) point...

Different tubes sound different at different bias points. Maybe that is what GT needs...


----------



## Donny K

I was referring to the amp making noise with the volume on the guitar turned all the way down the amp makes a noticeable hiss when the volume or gain are turned up past 2 or 3. I have not tried it with the guitar unplugged.


----------



## dave999z

Micky said:


> Yeah, seems closer to 80%...
> 
> If you use 20W dissipation, (DSL40c is a 40W amp...) 70% is about 31mv.
> 90% is about 40mv at that (20W) point...
> 
> Different tubes sound different at different bias points. Maybe that is what GT needs...



Micky, are you sure that you should calculate bias based off of the max power _this amp model_ runs each tube at (i.e., 20 watts), as opposed to the _standard _max dissipation value of an EL34 tube (i.e., 25 watts)?

I ask because, using 25 watts for the calculation the factory bias of the factory tubes (before I touched anything) was set about 65%, but using 20 watts for the calculation the factory bias was set at about 81%.

My calculation for how I set the bias using the new tubes was as follows:
P = V * I
P = 450 volts * 0.0387 amps
P = 17.415 watts, which is 69.6% of 25 watts (or, as you said, 87.1% of 20 watts, but I'm not sure that's the correct way to calculate it).


----------



## Micky

No, I'm not sure. I think I am at the point where I don't even care that much.

I bias mine where I like the sound, and percentages mean nothing to me. For me it is a balance between clean headroom (colder bias) and fizzy gain stages (hotter bias).

I like clean headroom. If that results at a 50% bias, then so be it. If it still sounds killer with the gain up a bit and the volume cranked, then that is a win-win situation.

I can't remember what mine is set at exactly, I think last time I had the chassis out to swap some tubes around I had it set at 36mv or so. I think Marshall recommends 38mv plus or minus 5%, which would be about 2mv.

But again, what sounds good to you might sound bad to me. Different tubes also have different characteristics. Subjective adjustments need to be weighed against technical recommendations and it is all ultimately up to the owner what they choose to do.


----------



## dave999z

Absolutely, bias to where it sounds good to you. My only concern is setting the bias too hot and frying the tubes in a very short time (or otherwise damaging the amp), which I don't want to do. So I'd be concerned if I thought I was at 69% but am actually at 87%, as that would seem risky (whether it sounds good or not). Seems like at 38.7 milliamps I'm right where Marshall recommends. Cheers.


----------



## Steve Naples

On EL34s the 38mv is at 70%, you use the plate dissipation method for the rating of the tube, not the amp. Amps are rated at what ever the manufacturer wants to call it.

The EL34 is 25w plate dissipation so using the formula above, you are at 70% at 38-39mv.
If you were biasing KT88s you would use a plate dissipation of 42w, EL84 = 12w.

So that way you won't exceed the rating of the tube itself. I hope that helps.


----------



## dave999z

Steve Naples said:


> On EL34s the 38mv is at 70%, you use the plate dissipation method for the rating of the tube, not the amp. Amps are rated at what ever the manufacturer wants to call it.
> 
> The EL34 is 25w plate dissipation so using the formula above, you are at 70% at 38-39mv.
> If you were biasing KT88s you would use a plate dissipation of 42w, EL84 = 12w.
> 
> So that way you won't exceed the rating of the tube itself. I hope that helps.



Great, that was my understanding.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Donny K said:


> I was referring to the amp making noise with the volume on the guitar turned all the way down the amp makes a noticeable hiss when the volume or gain are turned up past 2 or 3. I have not tried it with the guitar unplugged.


HIss would be normal, depending - in OD1 or 2 or Crunch? Where is master volume/gain combination? Do you mean when both master and gain are on 2 - 3? That seems very low. If gain is real high, OD2, volume on 3 there will certainly be some hiss - not hum, but hiss. HIgh gain, reasonable volume = hiss. Volume on 3, Gain on 6, OD1 and I hear noticeable hiss. Basically none on crunch. I think it's normal.


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## Roger Tyria

Mark,
How old is the DSL40 you are working on?
I wanted to do the same thing when I first got mine about a year ago. Not much success as the Ft Sw supply on my amp is only 5 VDC. Not sure where you are getting the 10.2 V shown in your video?

I'm going to have my chassis out again soon so I'll double check the actual voltage.

This is a great solution as long as there is enough voltage and current available from all amp versions to drive the LED's.

Good video and also why I love this forum.


----------



## Straydog

ToneWarrior said:


> Ok, I tried 4 different speakers in the amp. The stock speaker 70/80, Creamback 65, G12T 75 and Vintage 30. I realize that in the short time I had the speakers in the amp isn't really enough to get a good opinion. I was looking for that initial wow factor. I also ran it through my 1960BX which I loved but I'm looking for a speaker that I can use the amp as 1x12 which is the reason I bought it. If I wanted to use a 4x12 I wouldn't have bought it.
> 
> Starting with the V30 which I'm not a fan of was no surprised was my least favorite in the amp. It was on par with the stock speaker and if it came with the amp and I couldn't afford to buy another one I could live with it. But no wow factor for me.
> 
> The next least favorite was the G12T 75. I couldn't really decide which I liked the least between the stock speaker and this one but since the G12T is 21 years old I gave the edge to the stock. However the G12T was at it's best on the Ultra Gain Channel and beat the stock speaker and Vintage 30 hands down. If you're in to the new metal stuff with the scooped mids and you own this amp - I would suggest the G12T 75 as the go to speaker.
> 
> The next speaker is the stock speaker. My first experience with the speaker was when I tried the amp for the first time. I had read reviews that the amp was bright so I was a little skeptical as to what it was going to sound like. Playing the amp for the first time I was surprised at the bottom end it had based solely on the fact that I was expecting a bright amp. The speaker is brand new so I can't really get a feel of what it's going to sound like. However comparing it to the other speakers it is the lightest and has the smallest magnet. It seems cheaply made compared to the others and after hearing the amp with other speakers I won't be staying with it. It'll be a while before I can buy the speaker I want for it so I have sometime to break it in and get a better feel for it and how it breaks in.
> 
> And finally my favorite the Creamback 65. Actually the Greenback is my favorite but these Creamback are as good as those but at a higher rating. The Creamback in the DSL40C is IMO the go to speaker for those of us that love that classic rock tone. It's hard for me to give a unbiased opinion using this speaker but by my ears this speaker greatly improved the amp and makes it a usable 1x12 grab and go amp that I wanted. I will admit that the G12T did sound better in the Ultra Gain channel for metal tones but my Creambacks are only a year old and the G12T is 21 years old.
> 
> Over all if it were me based on the speakers I have I'd have to choose between the G12T 75 and the Creamback. The only other decision I would have to make is whether to get a Creamback 65 or 75. I've never played through a Creamback 75. I would also consider a Greenback and keep the amp on 20 watts. But in the end it's the Creamback for me.


 
As I wrote in a previous thread I bought a Creamback 75 and changed out the 70/80. I didn't really like the Creamback as much as I thought I would. Is there a big difference between the 65 and the 75?


----------



## dave999z

Hmmmm. I'm hunting for the right speaker as well. I was leaning toward trying the Creamback 65. I'd really like an Alnico Gold, but it's just too expensive. I actually don't think the stock seventy 80 is all that bad, but I'd like to tame the really bright shrieking uber highs and ice picks that creep through sometimes, and would like to smooth the damn fizziness you hear on single note leads on OD1. Changing out the tubes got me a lot of the way there, but I think the speaker is causing some of this too. Any thoughts?


----------



## Micky

I put an Eminence Man-O-War in mine and I love it.


----------



## dave999z

Micky said:


> I put an Eminence Man-O-War in mine and I love it.



What do you like about it Micky?


----------



## Micky

It has the bass thump of the Texas Heat I had in it previously.
It is not ice-picky like the 70/80.
Not so mid-scooped as other speakers.
Retains the chimey highs on the clean channel.
Bright but not overly so.
Bass doesn't flub-out like the 70/80.

I was mostly interested in a bassy speaker to compliment the open back of the 40c.
I had pulled the 70/80 early on, tried and loved a Texas Heat, tried and loved the WGS Vet 30, and settled on the Eminence Man-O-War. The 70/80 resides in my '77 Princeton Reverb (10" to 12" upgrade) and it sounds great there. The Vet 30 now resides in my DSL5c (another 10" to 12" upgrade) and I love it.

It is not that the 70/80 is a bad speaker, because it isn't. There are just better sounding speakers out there in my opinion.


----------



## solarburn

dave999z said:


> Hmmmm. I'm hunting for the right speaker as well. I was leaning toward trying the Creamback 65. I'd really like an Alnico Gold, but it's just too expensive. I actually don't think the stock seventy 80 is all that bad, but I'd like to tame the really bright shrieking uber highs and ice picks that creep through sometimes, and would like to smooth the damn fizziness you hear on single note leads on OD1. Changing out the tubes got me a lot of the way there, but I think the speaker is causing some of this too. Any thoughts?



I don't use L1 much. Too thin and toppy unless enuff volume and gain is added to fill it out. I prefer L2 which is a more open breathing voice when set right. I think too many dismiss it thinking it's the high gain only voicing when there are some great low gain nuggets...again the combination of preamp and power amp key here. 

I'd still like to try a Heritage G12-65 and the Creamback 65 in mine. WGS has great speakers...I have a couple and Eminence has a bunch that are highly efficient...make your DSL40 even louder hehe.

My 70/80 is broke in now cause I put volume to that lil bitch regularly and it's been a few months now. I like it. I find the fizziness to go away when enough of the power section is added to the preamp. Speaker seems to hold together at volume too...no flub up to noon. I haven't gone beyond that. No need to. I get what I need sooner and when I finally take it out I'm sure I'm going to be mic'd and neutered volume wise. Have to find sweet spots at lower volumes too.


----------



## solarburn

I'd buy a speaker based on what sonic ground is covered. It's good to know when others are stating what sounds really good speaker wise in the DSL what is being played. The DSL can be modern or classic yet not many speakers do well in both. 

For me if someone tells me they get great modern heavy tones from a Manowar it isn't going to be something I'd want to use cause I'm definitely not a modern voiced gainiac. Now if they tell that same speaker shines for rock, hard rock and retains some classic elements instead of more modern scooped ones than my ears are piqued and it may be for me.

I know my good buddy Martimus loved the Manowars with his Marshall too. As long as my mids don't get scooped I'm happy hehe.


----------



## lordquilton

I'd really like to try an Eminence GB 128, but far out man the amp already makes my place shake like it's gonna fall apart...


----------



## dave999z

I have a well broken in 1960A cab I bought around 1999 (JCM900 badge) that's filled with stock G12-T75 speakers. Just pulled one out and put it in my DSL40c. Will report back more (haven't played with it much yet), but first reaction is that it breaks up quicker and over a broader range, is still pretty fizzy (maybe a touch less than the seventy 80), and has less low end. It sounds different, and very good, not sure whether I like it better. I know there are better candidates, but I had this one here so thought I'd try it.

About the fizziness, I realize it that the speaker isn't going to affect that all that much. I think it might just be that at the end of the day I'm not crazy about the red channel on this amp. I'm not really into pedals, but maybe one good overdrive pedal to use on the green channel would work better for me, so that I can have non-fizzy gain to use for leads.


----------



## lordquilton

"About the fizziness, I realize it that the speaker isn't going to affect that all that much. I think it might just be that at the end of the day I'm not crazy about the red channel on this amp. I'm not really into pedals, but maybe one good overdrive pedal to use on the green channel would work better for me, so that I can have non-fizzy gain to use for leads."

That's the way I went. Set Green Crunch to how I like it, put an Empress Multidrive in front for solo's. I also changed the value of C19 to 100 pf, so now red 2 is like a different flavor of gain for solo's. It's still trebley, but it's a very playable sound for leads.


----------



## solarburn

lordquilton said:


> I'd really like to try an Eminence GB 128, but far out man the amp already makes my place shake like it's gonna fall apart...



That's their Greenback like offering. Came close to getting a 212 cab loaded with them.


----------



## ToneWarrior

Straydog said:


> As I wrote in a previous thread I bought a Creamback 75 and changed out the 70/80. I didn't really like the Creamback as much as I thought I would. Is there a big difference between the 65 and the 75?



I haven't played the amp much since I bought the 2210 but from what I remember the 75 has more bottom end. I have a JCM800 1936 loaded with the 65's and I can't tell the difference between that cab and my 1960BX which has Greenbacks. I kind of wish I could have got both 65's and 75's when I bought the 65's for the 1936 but the 75's wasn't available yet, I think having both in the same cab would sound great.


----------



## Micky

The Man-O-War is the G12T-75 equivalent:

Vintage 30 - 70W || The Governer-75W
G12H30 - 30W || The Wizard - 75W
Greenback - 25W || Private Jack - 50W
Alnico Blue - 15W || Red Fang - 50W
G12T-75 - 75W || Man O War - 120W
G12-65 - 65W || The Tonespotter - 75W


----------



## Duffy49

My Avatar Vintage series 212 has two Eminence Swamp Thangs in it and the cab makes my DSL100H head sound great compared to my other cabinet. Zero "ice pick" sound; nonexistent.

I would like to put four real decent speakers in that cabinet, replacing the unimpressive stock speakers.


----------



## YetiVanMarshall

Do all/most Marshals possess this fizzines/ice pick noise you're all talking about or is inherent to the Viet Cong Marshall DSL40C. I'm into 2 weeks with this dsl from GC and for 750.00 both red channels are quiet crappy sounding in my estimation. I recently purchaced a cheap behringer to800 and run it thru the green channel and it sounds great. So it seems like all i need is the clean/crunch channels and the reds are a waste of time. Also, can I run a Digitech rp200 thru the green without damaging the amplifier? What I'm really looking for is a chorus/phase/delay all in one kind of pedal.


Thx


----------



## Duffy49

YetiVanMarshall said:


> Do all/most Marshals possess this fizzines/ice pick noise you're all talking about or is inherent to the Viet Cong Marshall DSL40C. I'm into 2 weeks with this dsl from GC and for 750.00 both red channels are quiet crappy sounding in my estimation. I recently purchaced a cheap behringer to800 and run it thru the green channel and it sounds great. So it seems like all i need is the clean/crunch channels and the reds are a waste of time. Also, can I run a Digitech rp200 thru the green without damaging the amplifier? What I'm really looking for is a chorus/phase/delay all in one kind of pedal.
> 
> 
> Thx



Have you cranked up your DSL40c on either of the red channels. I think they sound best with some decent volume. I can turn mine up fairly loud without causing problems and it sounds better than it does at bedroom volume, of course. But it sounds good turned down low for a "stay at home player". I crank it up when the time seems right and that works out pretty well. All my amps get pretty loud, even the five watt ones.

I think if you mess with the volume vs. gain controls on the red channel, plus the eq and the volume and tone on your guitar, that you should be able to get a great sound out of it.

Some do the C19 mod and say that helps. Others put in different speakers. My speaker is probably well broken in by now, so it doesn't sound like your amp.

I'd say play the amp in, get used to it, learn from it, optimize your sound to as close to where you want it as you can get. Then just play it. Maybe change the speaker down the road. My DSL40c has the stock Seventy/80 and it sounds quite decent to me, but my Swamp Thangs in my other cabinet sound a lot nicer, more bass, very clean and clear, and very sensitive and powerful.

The RPxxx should not hurt the amp in any way. It's just like any other pedal.

If this is your first real tube amp, I'd say, give it a chance; play it in; get used to it and work with it.


----------



## solarburn

YetiVanMarshall said:


> Do all/most Marshals possess this fizzines/ice pick noise you're all talking about or is inherent to the Viet Cong Marshall DSL40C. I'm into 2 weeks with this dsl from GC and for 750.00 both red channels are quiet crappy sounding in my estimation. I recently purchaced a cheap behringer to800 and run it thru the green channel and it sounds great. So it seems like all i need is the clean/crunch channels and the reds are a waste of time. Also, can I run a Digitech rp200 thru the green without damaging the amplifier? What I'm really looking for is a chorus/phase/delay all in one kind of pedal.
> 
> 
> Thx



What's your settings on either red voicing? Where is your presence and resonance set?

Your speaker is not broke in yet.

The red voicings sound much better with added power section...turn the volume up and EQ from there.

What guitar and pups do you use?

A warmer V1 & V2 preamp tube can help take the top end down. 

Break that speaker in. Again the top end will soften.

This is mine stock out of the box on L2 gain about 9:30 volume about 8am if that. No channel switching just toggling through bridge/middle/neck positions at the end. Delay in loop. Doesn't sound crappy to me.

[ame=http://www.YouTube.com/watch?v=G1LpXmlarw0]DSL 40c straight in to lead 2 gain low. - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## dave999z

YetiVanMarshall said:


> this dsl from GC ... for 750.00



$750? Yikes. You can get this amp for like $580. I'd return it to GC since you're within your window.

Musicians Friend's normal price is $700. They have 15% off sales all the time. You can basically just call them or chat with them online and ask for 15% off. From there I'd normally say take that code to Zzounds and they'll even beat that price, but since you're in NJ (where Zzounds is) and would have to pay sales tax it prob won't make a difference.

$750 is way too much for this amp! I paid $577.14 total to be exact, free shipping, no sales tax, from Zzounds. Brand new and unopened. Anyway, it's up to you man.... I just don't like to see someone getting ripped off by GC. And that difference will cover the pedal you're wanting.


----------



## YetiVanMarshall

dave999z said:


> $750? Yikes. You can get this amp for like $580. I'd return it to GC since you're within your window.
> 
> Musicians Friend's normal price is $700. They have 15% off sales all the time. You can basically just call them or chat with them online and ask for 15% off. From there I'd normally say take that code to Zzounds and they'll even beat that price, but since you're in NJ (where Zzounds is) and would have to pay sales tax it prob won't make a difference.
> 
> $750 is way too much for this amp! I paid $577.14 including shipping, no sales tax, from Zzounds. Brand new and unopened. Anyway, it's up to you man.... I just don't like to see someone getting ripped off by GC.


 

I paid 699.00 plus tax and i had some GC return credit money and some company where i work at bonus credit cards that are good at GC (about 200.00 worth) and i wanted to take advantage of the 18 mo no interest. So my balance is only 280.00.

Thx for the info


----------



## dave999z

YetiVanMarshall said:


> I paid 699.00 plus tax and i had some GC return credit money and some company where i work at bonus credit cards that are good at GC (about 200.00 worth) and i wanted to take advantage of the 18 mo no interest. So my balance is only 280.00.
> 
> Thx for the info



Gotcha, but even GC has sales often (including Memorial Day, Labor Day, take your cat to work day, and absolutely every other holiday) when you could do better than that -- they usually give some discount if you just ask them.


----------



## YetiVanMarshall

Duffy49 said:


> Have you cranked up your DSL40c on either of the red channels. I think they sound best with some decent volume. I can turn mine up fairly loud without causing problems and it sounds better than it does at bedroom volume, of course. But it sounds good turned down low for a "stay at home player". I crank it up when the time seems right and that works out pretty well. All my amps get pretty loud, even the five watt ones.
> 
> I think if you mess with the volume vs. gain controls on the red channel, plus the eq and the volume and tone on your guitar, that you should be able to get a great sound out of it.
> 
> Some do the C19 mod and say that helps. Others put in different speakers. My speaker is probably well broken in by now, so it doesn't sound like your amp.
> 
> I'd say play the amp in, get used to it, learn from it, optimize your sound to as close to where you want it as you can get. Then just play it. Maybe change the speaker down the road. My DSL40c has the stock Seventy/80 and it sounds quite decent to me, but my Swamp Thangs in my other cabinet sound a lot nicer, more bass, very clean and clear, and very sensitive and powerful.
> 
> The RPxxx should not hurt the amp in any way. It's just like any other pedal.
> 
> If this is your first real tube amp, I'd say, give it a chance; play it in; get used to it and work with it.


 
Hey Duffy, Ive owned original Marshal Plexi half stack, Fender Twin, Music Man 65, Peavey Classic 100 stack(all of which I can kick myself in the a$$ over and over again for selling.) so not my first tube amp. I just expected to have more control over the gain channels. Right now i only use lead 1 channel gain on 2 and volume at noon and it has that obvious fizzyness i hear everyone talking about on this board. The clean/crunch channel i have absolutely no problem with, absolutely fantastic. I whish there was a Marshall that had this one channel that i could afford, maybe there is just haven't found it yet.

I'm using a MIM Strat. 
Agile LP copy which believe it or not is a pretty good axe for the 175.000 i paid used for it. I actually bought it at rondo music when it was a real retail store.
Also an Ibanez ag75 for my jazz inclinations.

Thx


Thx Bro.


----------



## YetiVanMarshall

dave999z said:


> Gotcha, but even GC has sales often (including Memorial Day, Labor Day, take your cat to work day, and absolutely every other holiday) when you could do better than that -- they usually give some discount if you just ask them.


 

Yeah I'm gonna take a ride over today to see if there are any mem day sales. Oh also when i bought the DSL they gave me 120.00 for a VS30r that I paid 80 bucks for so the whole deal was pretty complicated with .


----------



## Jethro Rocker

YetiVanMarshall said:


> Hey Duffy, Ive owned original Marshal Plexi half stack, Fender Twin, Music Man 65, Peavey Classic 100 stack(all of which I can kick myself in the a$$ over and over again for selling.) so not my first tube amp. I just expected to have more control over the gain channels. Right now i only use lead 1 channel gain on 2 and volume at noon and it has that obvious fizzyness i hear everyone talking about on this board. The clean/crunch channel i have absolutely no problem with, absolutely fantastic. I whish there was a Marshall that had this one channel that i could afford, maybe there is just haven't found it yet.
> 
> I'm using a MIM Strat.
> Agile LP copy which believe it or not is a pretty good axe for the 175.000 i paid used for it. I actually bought it at rondo music when it was a real retail store.
> Also an Ibanez ag75 for my jazz inclinations.
> Thx Bro.


I immediately changed the speaker out to a broken in V30, and still found the difference in that high end between the channels to be too annoying, I did the C19 clip and am very glad! The EQ is virtually the same now between crunch channel and OD channel. It killed much of that harsh ice pickiness, sounds great now. I personally recommend the surgery. Took about 20 minutes total...


----------



## solarburn

YetiVanMarshall said:


> Right now i only use lead 1 channel gain on 2 and volume at noon and it has that obvious fizzyness i hear everyone talking about on this board.
> Thx.



No wonder it sounds like crap. With the gain that low it will be fizzy and toppy on L1 in stock condition.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Yes true, I use lead 1 for more hardcore or leads, with leads my gain is 7 or 8. 2 would be rather thin....


----------



## solarburn

Speaking of this amp having a strong top end...

I finally got to running it at 20 watts really for the first time. When I got the amp I made sure it worked at half power but spent no time playing it. Just a test.

It's a lot brighter on half power. Rolling my volume down usually warms up a bit using full power but not on half. Stays very bright and clear and that increases quickly. I've not adjusted amp EQ yet cause I'm lighting this thing up with volume to see how it fills out. Running Green clean, gain dimed boosted with Marvel Drive and L2 gain about 10am. I have both amp volumes set around noon sometimes 1pm. Yeah it's loud...but fun too. The notes really sing when soloing & chords are full and clear.

I find at these volumes that 20 watts renders more of a classic feel...cleaner and clearer saturation but not brittle or stiff. It can get brittle if guitar volume is run too far down...like cracked. I can get her to bark and snarl at me using mid gain crunch and the roll off to clean is really good. It teeters the top end verging on too much but every string rings out nicely. It would be great to be able to mic it set like this but it's still very loud. I know in a mix the top end would prolly be fine plus I can tame it with the amp EQ still.

So...for a more classic feel try running the amp half power but give it volume if you can. I can run my shit loud where I live. With the Marvel Drive going into the Green clean, amp gain dimed it gets some nice ACDC like tones going especially Bon Scott era tunes.

Bottom line is the amp sounds/feels much different at volume than low 8 or 9am bedroom playing. She comes to life with more throttle boyz!

I know...my ears can only handle so much of that too hehee!


----------



## USAPatriot

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Speaking of this amp having a strong top end...
> 
> I finally got to running it at 20 watts really for the first time. When I got the amp I made sure it worked at half power but spent no time playing it. Just a test.
> 
> It's a lot brighter on half power. Rolling my volume down usually warms up a bit using full power but not on half. Stays very bright and clear and that increases quickly. I've not adjusted amp EQ yet cause I'm lighting this thing up with volume to see how it fills out. Running Green clean, gain dimed boosted with Marvel Drive and L2 gain about 10am. I have both amp volumes set around noon sometimes 1pm. Yeah it's loud...but fun too. The notes really sing when soloing & chords are full and clear.
> 
> I find at these volumes that 20 watts renders more of a classic feel...cleaner and clearer saturation but not brittle or stiff. It can get brittle if guitar volume is run too far down...like cracked. I can get her to bark and snarl at me using mid gain crunch and the roll off to clean is really good. It teeters the top end verging on too much but every string rings out nicely. It would be great to be able to mic it set like this but it's still very loud. I know in a mix the top end would prolly be fine plus I can tame it with the amp EQ still.
> 
> So...for a more classic feel try running the amp half power but give it volume if you can. I can run my shit loud where I live. With the Marvel Drive going into the Green clean, amp gain dimed it gets some nice ACDC like tones going especially Bon Scott era tunes.
> 
> Bottom line is the amp sounds/feels much different at volume than low 8 or 9am bedroom playing. She comes to life with more throttle boyz!
> 
> I know...my ears can only handle so much of that too hehee!



I was doing just the opposite. I started playing the amp at 20 and kept it there for 3 months and finally flipped the switch last week up to 40. I didn't notice much change in tone but I'm still using microphonic tubes too, which likely is a factor. All the new preamp tubes are sitting in a drawer waiting for the power tubes to arrive, which is supposed to be by the end of this coming week. I've set the weekend aside for doing to the tubes and the choke, maybe C-19, depending on how the other things work out. -Rod-


----------



## solarburn

USAPatriot said:


> I was doing just the opposite. I started playing the amp at 20 and kept it there for 3 months and finally flipped the switch last week up to 40. I didn't notice much change in tone but I'm still using microphonic tubes too, which likely is a factor. All the new preamp tubes are sitting in a drawer waiting for the power tubes to arrive, which is supposed to be by the end of this coming week. I've set the weekend aside for doing to the tubes and the choke, maybe C-19, depending on how the other things work out. -Rod-



I hear the differences more at volume and definitely rolling off guitar volume. Not so much at lower bedroom friendly volumes. It runs cleaner on half power at volume. It actually makes my EC1000 with Super Distortions a bit twangy haha! Kinda like it...unless it gets brittle and stiff. When I'm on the neck pup I can tell it's gotten cleaner...more bell like. Some of the low end has diminished and I still haven't touched the EQ from full power setting. 

Rod are you able to run volume from about 10am to noon or is that too loud?

What power tubes did you get? I forgot if you mentioned it already...


----------



## USAPatriot

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I hear the differences more at volume and definitely rolling off guitar volume. Not so much at lower bedroom friendly volumes. It runs cleaner on half power at volume. It actually makes my EC1000 with Super Distortions a bit twangy haha! Kinda like it...unless it gets brittle and stiff. When I'm on the neck pup I can tell it's gotten cleaner...more bell like. Some of the low end has diminished and I still haven't touched the EQ from full power setting.
> 
> Rod are you able to run volume from about 10am to noon or is that too loud?
> 
> What power tubes did you get? I forgot if you mentioned it already...



The power tubes will be stock Marshalls as are the preamp tubes I have sitting here. Oddly, they've made changes, at least in the nomenclature. All of the preamp tubes currently in the amp are ECC83S and are marked as such. All of the ECC83's that I have sitting in the drawer are marked as simply ECC83...but are obviously ECC83S's and still have the silver colored anode. 3 of the tubes came a few weeks ago and have a date of 11/13 on them. This last tube that showed up is dated 11/10, and Kevin told me to use it in V1. There's no telling what's going to show up this coming week. The set in there now were matched at 42mv. The new ones will be ??? I note here that the photos of Micky's set were labeled as 52mv.

10am to noon is too loud if the wife is at home. She's genuinely noise sensitive. I usually keepit around 9 o'clock and control it with my guitar pot. Closing the door helps, the room is nearly soundproof, but it's so small, 10x8' that *I* can't tolerate it when the door is closed. It's nice when she goes to visit her folks so I can turn it up some, but living in a townhouse, I still can't go to noon without the neighbors complaining. Such is life. And I've got the cats to consider too. Since I've been using the 2014 Gibson Les Paul Standard with the Marshall, my guitar pots have gone places no other guitar of mine has ever gone before, that's for sure. I feel like I can get anything out of the two of them. -Rod-


----------



## Duffy49

USAPatriot said:


> living in a townhouse, I still can't go to noon without the neighbors complaining. Such is life. -Rod-



I would completely agree that a town house or an apartment is definitely not the place to be cranking a Marshall DSL40c, period.

It seems like there are always neighbors that complain about guitars but not about screaming kids. It must be a cultural thing. We are rock music bad boys.


----------



## solarburn

USAPatriot said:


> The power tubes will be stock Marshalls as are the preamp tubes I have sitting here. Oddly, they've made changes, at least in the nomenclature. All of the preamp tubes currently in the amp are ECC83S and are marked as such. All of the ECC83's that I have sitting in the drawer are marked as simply ECC83...but are obviously ECC83S's and still have the silver colored anode. 3 of the tubes came a few weeks ago and have a date of 11/13 on them. This last tube that showed up is dated 11/10, and Kevin told me to use it in V1. There's no telling what's going to show up this coming week. The set in there now were matched at 42mv. The new ones will be ??? I note here that the photos of Micky's set were labeled as 52mv.
> 
> 10am to noon is too loud if the wife is at home. She's genuinely noise sensitive. I usually keepit around 9 o'clock and control it with my guitar pot. Closing the door helps, the room is nearly soundproof, but it's so small, 10x8' that *I* can't tolerate it when the door is closed. It's nice when she goes to visit her folks so I can turn it up some, but living in a townhouse, I still can't go to noon without the neighbors complaining. Such is life. And I've got the cats to consider too. Since I've been using the 2014 Gibson Les Paul Standard with the Marshall, my guitar pots have gone places no other guitar of mine has ever gone before, that's for sure. I feel like I can get anything out of the two of them. -Rod-



Gotcha. It's a common situation for us players with our amps. My animals are no where close to where I play. As soon as they here the click of amp or plugging in my guitar jack they know what's coming. Kids don't mind and their hearing is safe. Don't have a wife to worry about either way. There is safe distance here. My neighbors let me play as loud as I want. As long as it's from 9am to 9pm. We're not sitting right on each other either so that helps the tolerance.

Since I do play at volume regularly I get to know low vs high tones. The amp really fills out but also clears up too. Meaning fizz goes away. If we could play at volume while gigging I definitely prefer the amp opened up. No doubt about it. It sings and struts with Marshall vigour. We know places won't allow that and so low volume tones need to be dialled in best we can. 

Opening the amp up volume wise is the biggest and quickest way to get rid of fizzy saturation on this amp. Since so many have to play quieter they're kinda stuck with a bit of that low volume fizziness. Makes me wonder if guys are doing the mods/speaker changes not knowing or having experienced what the amp does opened up into its power section. Where IME it sounds best. The differences of low volume tone to high volume is significant and mods/speaker changes may not pan out in a good way...or they may be good. I'm finding the stock configuration pretty solid and toneful. This amp sings at volume. It doesn't at low volume. But I've found tones I like anyways either way.


----------



## 81LesPaul

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Gotcha.
> 
> Opening the amp up volume wise is the biggest and quickest way to get rid of fizzy saturation on this amp.



 ABSOLUTELY...

All you need is volume - These amps are built to be played loud. On stage warmed up with decent volume I get sounds that I cannot even come close to at home. In fact I don't use mine for everyday practice prefering a SS Tech 21 Trademark.


----------



## 60Cycle

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Speaking of this amp having a strong top end...
> 
> I finally got to running it at 20 watts really for the first time. When I got the amp I made sure it worked at half power but spent no time playing it. Just a test.
> 
> It's a lot brighter on half power. Rolling my volume down usually warms up a bit using full power but not on half. Stays very bright and clear and that increases quickly. I've not adjusted amp EQ yet cause I'm lighting this thing up with volume to see how it fills out. Running Green clean, gain dimed boosted with Marvel Drive and L2 gain about 10am. I have both amp volumes set around noon sometimes 1pm. Yeah it's loud...but fun too. The notes really sing when soloing & chords are full and clear.
> 
> I find at these volumes that 20 watts renders more of a classic feel...cleaner and clearer saturation but not brittle or stiff. It can get brittle if guitar volume is run too far down...like cracked. I can get her to bark and snarl at me using mid gain crunch and the roll off to clean is really good. It teeters the top end verging on too much but every string rings out nicely. It would be great to be able to mic it set like this but it's still very loud. I know in a mix the top end would prolly be fine plus I can tame it with the amp EQ still.
> 
> So...for a more classic feel try running the amp half power but give it volume if you can. I can run my shit loud where I live. With the Marvel Drive going into the Green clean, amp gain dimed it gets some nice ACDC like tones going especially Bon Scott era tunes.
> 
> Bottom line is the amp sounds/feels much different at volume than low 8 or 9am bedroom playing. She comes to life with more throttle boyz!
> 
> I know...my ears can only handle so much of that too hehee!


 

Im starting to think the too bright ice pick thing must be at 20 watts and on low volume too because Im running at full power at survivable levels I don't get that, and I use the red channel 2 for all my distorted stuff and leave the green for clean.

Or it could be all those years of playing in a mix has me tuned to a different sound. I think if a lot of people searched the net for straight lead guitar tracks from albums they know theyd be surprised how bright and high a lead guitar is.


----------



## 81LesPaul

60Cycle said:


> Or it could be all those years of playing in a mix has me tuned to a different sound. I think if a lot of people searched the net for straight lead guitar tracks from albums they know theyd be surprised how bright and high a lead guitar is.



Your probably on to something there. I have my DSL slightly brighter than perhaps I would if I played her at home. The first gig I noted during the sound check she was too dark so quickly fixed the EQ.


----------



## USAPatriot

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Gotcha. It's a common situation for us players with our amps. My animals are no where close to where I play. As soon as they here the click of amp or plugging in my guitar jack they know what's coming. Kids don't mind and their hearing is safe. Don't have a wife to worry about either way. There is safe distance here. My neighbors let me play as loud as I want. As long as it's from 9am to 9pm. We're not sitting right on each other either so that helps the tolerance.



The cat pictured in my avatar died last year, but she used to come in and watch me from the bed while I played, eventually curling up and going to sleep. I still have her mother and she camps outside the door while I play. My wife's cats on the otherhand, they boogie as soon as I flip the standby switch, even if I'm on the green channel and the room is quiet. They are hearing something I'm not, I guess.

I have no real need to start swapping out tubes, but maybe in time. I've got various preamp tubes here...JJ's, Tungsols, China and TADs and a set of Tungsol EL34's, but I think those are microphonic IIRC. I do plan on trying out the retrovalves sometime soon after the other work is done. My V30 is in an extension cab, so I can basically upend the amp, face it towards the wall and do easy tube swaps that way. I'll boost my volume the next time I practice and just control it with the guitar's pots...see how that works out. We've got thunderstorms the next couple of days so probably not going to get much play time in. I'm plugged into a good breaker-box setup but it's not as good as a UPS and I can't fork out for one any time soon. -Rod-


----------



## solarburn

60Cycle said:


> Im starting to think the too bright ice pick thing must be at 20 watts and on low volume too because Im running at full power at survivable levels I don't get that, and I use the red channel 2 for all my distorted stuff and leave the green for clean.
> 
> Or it could be all those years of playing in a mix has me tuned to a different sound. I think if a lot of people searched the net for straight lead guitar tracks from albums they know theyd be surprised how bright and high a lead guitar is.



It's running cleaner. More vintage in how it responds when volume is added.

I just got done playing again and it is much sharper in the high end in 20 Watts. Even adding volume. Real bright like plexi bright till enough volume is added and even then be careful.LOL

I'm having fun with it but notice the ringing in my ears has increased.


----------



## MarshallDog

DSMer said:


> You've done a great job there, Sky. Very professional.
> 
> The amp weighs just a bit heavier now for sure but well worth it for the added killer tone.
> 
> Here's the difference on the size of the iron.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In regards to my mods, here are the latest:
> 
> - Changed all the .022 valued capacitors with Mallory 150's purchased from Granger Amplifications. These are the tone caps, cathode bypass, and coupling caps.
> 
> Retubed with:
> - NOS Mullard XF2's
> - NOS Sylvania 12AX7s V1-V2
> - Marshall branded Chinese ECC83 - V3
> - SOVTEK 12AX7XPS - PI
> 
> At a multiband gig I had the other day, my DSL40C (now a DSL50H mated to a Marshall 2x12 fitted with Classic Lead 80's ) kicked an Orange stack to the roof. The soundman was so impressed with the tone my amp was putting out and nothing but compliments from other guitarist.
> 
> Here my upside down DSL in a Marshall 3210 amp cabinet.  Badass, EH?



DSMer - Are you still happy with the OT upgrade you did on your DSL 40C? I am seriously considering it and love your pics of the upgrade especially the wiring, it will make it much easier to do.


----------



## DSMer

MarshallDog said:


> DSMer - Are you still happy with the OT upgrade you did on your DSL 40C? I am seriously considering it and love your pics of the upgrade especially the wiring, it will make it much easier to do.



Thanks for the compliment, MarshallDog!!! Absofrigginlutely very happy with the upgrade... no going back. It's been through numerous gigs and loving it.


----------



## solarburn

USAPatriot said:


> The cat pictured in my avatar died last year, but she used to come in and watch me from the bed while I played, eventually curling up and going to sleep. I still have her mother and she camps outside the door while I play. My wife's cats on the otherhand, they boogie as soon as I flip the standby switch, even if I'm on the green channel and the room is quiet. They are hearing something I'm not, I guess.
> 
> I have no real need to start swapping out tubes, but maybe in time. -Rod-



It's funny cause I'll bring my guitar in its case set it on the bed where they are and they won't move...until I walk to the amp and click it on or plug the guitar in. Either one and they scram.LOL

I still have the stock power tubes in mine. V1&V2 are changed but I also like the stock V1 and then BP in V2. So my tube changes have been V1&V2. 

I had 34L's in it for a bit but am liking the stock power tubes more. Mixing better with my pups and the 70/80. Like the mids better.


----------



## USAPatriot

solarburnDSL50 said:


> It's funny cause I'll bring my guitar in its case set it on the bed where they are and they won't move...until I walk to the amp and click it on or plug the guitar in. Either one and they scram.LOL
> 
> I still have the stock power tubes in mine. V1&V2 are changed but I also like the stock V1 and then BP in V2. So my tube changes have been V1&V2.
> 
> I had 34L's in it for a bit but am liking the stock power tubes more. Mixing better with my pups and the 70/80. Like the mids better.



Yeah...Ginger could be asleep downstairs but she'd just wander in and hop up on the bed when I started playing. Her sister, who died 5 days prior, hated my music. It was cancer for both...Tia on the 29th and then Ginger on Jun 3rd. This next week is going to suck.

Anyhow, I think a lot of people understand that Marshall didn't just do low bid on their tubes, put them in and ship them out. These amps were designed with specific tubes in mind and duh...Marshall knows what they are doing. 

Last night when I was falling asleep I started dreaming (I always do that...it's strange) and I was having this dream about the amp's tube circuits and realizing something really important about it and just when the dream was getting to the part I needed to know, Alicia (Ginger and Tia's mother) jumped up on the bed and woke me up. Damn. I had the feeling it was something really important and useful, something I probably know on some level but it's lost in the daytime clutter. Oh well. -Rod-


----------



## solarburn

Sorry to her about the cats. I know we hold ours very dear and that is a great loss with both of them going as they did.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Same sympathy here, Rod.


----------



## USAPatriot

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Sorry to her about the cats. I know we hold ours very dear and that is a great loss with both of them going as they did.





Jethro Rocker said:


> Same sympathy here, Rod.



Thanks, guys, really. They were both 12 years old but born in different litters 8 months apart. Ginger was a week away from turning 13 when she died. I guess they got a bad gene from their father since their mother is still happy, healthy and 15 years old. Ginger was a rocker, for sure and Tia a talker. She always had a lot to say, more than most Siamese even. I miss them.

Onward and upward  -Rod-


----------



## ibmorjamn

Micky said:


> The Man-O-War is the G12T-75 equivalent:
> 
> Vintage 30 - 70W || The Governer-75W
> G12H30 - 30W || The Wizard - 75W
> Greenback - 25W || Private Jack - 50W
> Alnico Blue - 15W || Red Fang - 50W
> G12T-75 - 75W || Man O War - 120W
> G12-65 - 65W || The Tonespotter - 75W



Cool !


----------



## bman

Holy shit! Just turned my DSL post gain past 3 for the first time since i have owned it.. This amp needs to be cranked! Sounds decent at a low volume but freaking awesome cranked. Alll fizz and buzz is gone. Nothing but thick chunk, balls and growl here. I am playing an evh wolfgang straight into it and am blown away. Best amp i've heard under 1.ooo!


----------



## solarburn

That's what I been preach'n bout!


----------



## USAPatriot

Is anyone else vibrating things off of shelves or the tops of dressers?  -Rod-


----------



## JEB

USAPatriot said:


> Is anyone else vibrating things off of shelves or the tops of dressers?  -Rod-



I've got cracks in the wall of my music room...


----------



## solarburn

USAPatriot said:


> Is anyone else vibrating things off of shelves or the tops of dressers?  -Rod-



Yep.


----------



## solarburn

JEB said:


> I've got cracks in the wall of my music room...



Officially christened music room.


----------



## 60Cycle

bman said:


> Holy shit! Just turned my DSL post gain past 3 for the first time since i have owned it.. This amp needs to be cranked! Sounds decent at a low volume but freaking awesome cranked. Alll fizz and buzz is gone. Nothing but thick chunk, balls and growl here. I am playing an evh wolfgang straight into it and am blown away. Best amp i've heard under 1.ooo!


 
Its not a bedroom amp even on 20watt, which is a waste IMO it sounds like a turd on half power. If you can crank it up some I don't see any need for cutting the c19 or even a speaker change unless you don't care for the character of the 70/80 but once it breaks in and you get the volume up to around 4 or beyond it comes to life.

If you got to play at lower volumes, this aint the amp without mods I guess. I think youd be better off with the 5 watt or maybe, the 15.


----------



## USAPatriot

JEB said:


> I've got cracks in the wall of my music room...



LOL. I hope that doesn't happen here. The house was just rebuilt after a fire 2 years ago 

I turned my MV up to 4 yesterday on both channels and my laptop found it's way onto the floor. It only sits there and runs SETI workunits, but still... Most of my picks came off the dresser along with my solder and a bag of screws and nuts. I'm glad my preamp tubes are stored in a box in a drawer  The guitar wasn't even turned up! -Rod-


----------



## Micky

60Cycle said:


> Its not a bedroom amp even on 20watt, which is a waste IMO it sounds like a turd on half power. If you can crank it up some I don't see any need for cutting the c19 or even a speaker change unless you don't care for the character of the 70/80 but once it breaks in and you get the volume up to around 4 or beyond it comes to life.
> 
> If you got to play at lower volumes, this aint the amp without mods I guess. I think youd be better off with the 5 watt or maybe, the 15.



This was my case exactly. I wasn't thrilled with the 70/80, and the 470pf cap in C19 just made it worse. Even cranked, the fizz and uncontrollable treble was way too much. Only after swapping the speaker to a quality Eminence 12" did I realize the cap was there for a reason.

Rather than settining for the the dark sounding Ultra I channel with C19 out of the circuit, I decided to put in a 180pf cap and try it there. What I found was that even at lower volumes (both 40W & 20W settings) I could eat my cake and have it too. Perfect combination for the sounds I like, at bedroom volumes as well as ear-splitting, terror-inducing levels.

So much of this tone chasing is subjective, as well as dependent on the style of music you play and the guitars & pickups you use. Too many variables for the 'one mod fits all' type of mindset. Many people turn to pedals as a method of finding their tone, personally I try to avoid them wherever possible.

But I am glad that others are finding ways to fine-tune this beast to their desired tastes. I think it is gonna be a popular amp for a long time...


----------



## dave999z

I still have a broken-in G12T-75 in mine that I pulled out of my 412 cab. It's not the perfect speaker in there, but you can get some fun tones. The problem with trying any alternative speaker in the DSL40c is that... you can always get some fun tones! I'm enjoying playing it with this speaker. I really think the single note sustained leads are better (less fizzy, more round and creamy), at all volumes, than the stock seventy 80. And it has slightly less of that godawful high screeching that creeps through on the red channel. But, I like the low end on the seventy 80 better -- more chunky, growls and roars more (does more of a "junt junt junt junt", whereas the G12-T75 is more of a "dunt dunt dunt dunt"), especially strat single coils in out-of-phase position (the seventy 80 can really nail the "Today" Billy Corgan power chords tone). And the green crunch breakup is just a little more dynamic and gnarly and fun on the seventy 80. Neither speaker has truly great singing harmonic overtones in this amp.

So I'm trying to decide which WGS to purchase. I'm thinking an ET-65 or Invader. But do they have the equivalent of a Creamback? I think a veteran 30 is gonna be too shrill for me. I'm not looking for uber scooped sound, but I can't stand biting ice pick sounds.


----------



## solarburn

dave999z said:


> I still have a broken-in G12T-75 in mine that I pulled out of my 412 cab. It's not the perfect speaker in there, but you can get some fun tones. The problem with trying any alternative speaker in the DSL40c is that... you can always get some fun tones! I'm enjoying playing it with this speaker. I really think the single note sustained leads are better (less fizzy, more round and creamy), at all volumes, than the stock seventy 80. And it has slightly less of that godawful high screeching that creeps through on the red channel. But, I like the low end on the seventy 80 better -- more chunky, growls and roars more (does more of a "junt junt junt junt", whereas the G12-T75 is more of a "dunt dunt dunt dunt"), especially strat single coils in out-of-phase position (the seventy 80 can really nail the "Today" Billy Corgan power chords tone). And the green crunch breakup is just a little more dynamic and gnarly and fun on the seventy 80. Neither speaker has truly great singing harmonic overtones in this amp.
> 
> So I'm trying to decide which WGS to purchase. I'm thinking an ET-65 or Invader. But do they have the equivalent of a Creamback? I think a veteran 30 is gonna be too shrill for me. I'm not looking for uber scooped sound, but I can't stand biting ice pick sounds.



I agree about the singing overtones not being there...yet. I really think this is where an OT change helps as well. It did with my 50 watter.

Man it's hard choosing which way to go even when you have narrowed speaker changes down there are still too many choices!LOL

That's another reason I've waited too is because I'm still mulling it over. In the mean time my 70/80 has broken in and sounds pretty decent. I'm mean who can afford to speaker roll...?

I would go ET-65 between it an the Invader. Oh and I have 2 Veteran 30's in different cabs. They are NOT shrill. It's a smoother V30. I wonder what a Cannabis Rex would sound like in our DSL's? It's a darker speaker from Eminence. Gets excellent reviews...


----------



## dave999z

solarburnDSL50 said:


> who can afford to speaker roll...?



This. And, who has time?



solarburnDSL50 said:


> I would go ET-65 between it an the Invader.



Curious.. Why do you say that?


----------



## solarburn

dave999z said:


> This. And, who has time?
> 
> 
> 
> Curious.. Why do you say that?



I like that the ET-65 is a smoother greenback like speaker. It should translate as a warmer speaker in the DSL. TBH I don't know much or have read/listened to clips of the invader. To be fair I'm being one sided.

My picks so far have been either the Heritage 65 or the Creamback. 

When I read about reviews of speakers they usually drive me crazy due to the disparities between people's experiences. Pretty much leaves me feeling I just have to commit to one and try it out for myself. Like tube rolling only that has been less costly at least compared to a Heritage 65.


----------



## solarburn

How bout these guys...

[ame=http://www.YouTube.com/watch?v=W_iU2zNBSE8]Celestion Guitar Speaker Shootout -Dirty Channel- V-Type, Creamback G12-H, Gold Alnico by Scott Sill - YouTube[/ame]

I like the 75 watt Creamback and the Gold. Actually all 3 sound good to me. This lil rhythm ain't showing much of a difference between them hehe. The 75 watt Creamback keeps grabbing my attention from clips I've heard.

Too bad no lead lines.


----------



## Micky

dave999z said:


> So I'm trying to decide which WGS to purchase. I'm thinking an ET-65 or Invader. But do they have the equivalent of a Creamback? I think a veteran 30 is gonna be too shrill for me. I'm not looking for uber scooped sound, but I can't stand biting ice pick sounds.



I think someone here at MF has a 16-ohm Vet30 for sale...

I put one in my DSL5c and I LOVE it...

And we all know what 'speaker rolling' costs.


----------



## lordquilton

"How bout these guys..."
Watching him groove around, seems to me he's really enjoying that Gold.


----------



## solarburn

lordquilton said:


> "How bout these guys..."
> Watching him groove around, seems to me he's really enjoying that Gold.




I noticed that too.LOL


----------



## Straydog

ToneWarrior said:


> I haven't played the amp much since I bought the 2210 but from what I remember the 75 has more bottom end. I have a JCM800 1936 loaded with the 65's and I can't tell the difference between that cab and my 1960BX which has Greenbacks. I kind of wish I could have got both 65's and 75's when I bought the 65's for the 1936 but the 75's wasn't available yet, I think having both in the same cab would sound great.


 
Yeah, maybe I'll just try a 65 instead on my 75. That may be the way to go.


----------



## bman

I too like the creamback. Thanks for the post.


----------



## dave999z

Anyone know if there is anywhere that sells WGS speakers that has a return policy in case you don't like it?

I know WGS direct allows one exchange, just wondering if there's anywhere with a better policy.


----------



## dave999z

Well it seems Guitar Center allows returns on speakers.

I'm on the fence between trying a WGS Invader or British Lead 80, but Guitar Center doesn't have the British Lead 80. So Invader it is!


----------



## dave999z

Take that back, speakers aren't returnable at GC. Will probably order a British Lead 80 from somewhere else.

Really odd how speakers are not exchangeable. How the hell are you supposed to try them?


----------



## Micky

dave999z said:


> Really odd how speakers are not exchangeable. How the hell are you supposed to try them?



Buy them. And if you don't like them, sell them at a loss.

Plus shipping. Ever ship a speaker with an 11 pound magnet?


----------



## dave999z

You're right.

Man, every WGS seller (including WGS direct) except Musicians Friend charges shipping and/or tax. Musicians Friend didn't have the British Lead 80, so I went with the Invader. Chatted with them and got a bit of a discount... $72, no shipping, no tax. No returns either, so here's hoping I like it. (If not, like you said, onto Craigslist or the forum classifieds it'll go. And it wasn't like it was that expensive.)


----------



## Micky

Same way with Eminence speakers, but the problem is, I almost ALWAYS like them or end up using them somewhere!

Never tried an Invader, but I have a Vet30 in my little DSL and I love it!


----------



## bman

Hi guys I'm considering buying a Celestion G12 Vintage 30 (60w) speaker for my DSL40C. Does anyone have experience with this particular speaker? Im concerned how it will sound in a semi-closed back amp like the 40C. Obviously Im after the old VH tone, always dig George lynch and similar Brown tones with the aggressive mid-rage texture.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

I have but it's hard for me to compare - I never tried the 70/80 as I took it out and sold it with my old Peavey I was ditching for the 40C. I really like the V30, I keep the mids about 6 - 7 and treble back at 5 or so, and did the C19 mod to lessen the harshness on OD1. Works for me but again, I can't compare to anything else. I also have a V30 1x12 Mesa for the little lunchbox and 5153 so I'm used to them.


----------



## USAPatriot

bman said:


> Hi guys I'm considering buying a Celestion G12 Vintage 30 (60w) speaker for my DSL40C. Does anyone have experience with this particular speaker? Im concerned how it will sound in a semi-closed back amp like the 40C. Obviously Im after the old VH tone, always dig George lynch and similar Brown tones with the aggressive mid-rage texture.



I've got one and it's great, but so far I've not put it into the combo. It's sitting in a Jet City cab all by it's lonesome. I like it there but it'll be soon moved to the combo and I really don't see it being a negative. In the cab there's obviously a ton of bottom end and also a lot of shrill top end and I'd think I'll lose a little of both going into the combo. It's definitely better than the 70/80 and even better than the Eminence speaker that was stock to the Jet City. My JCA22H has an entirely different character using the V30 versus the stock Eminence.

On that note, my Marshall branded EL-34B's came in today, part #VLVE -00101 with a "date code" of 15/14. Interestingly, there's also a small TAD sticker on the base of each, with the number "2". I suspect that these are TAD SVT's, AKA winged =c= 's. This week I finally get to put my amp into proper order  -Rod-


----------



## dave999z

Does anyone know... If you run this thing in triode mode all the time, does that do anything weird to your power tubes eventually?


----------



## USAPatriot

dave999z said:


> Does anyone know... If you run this thing in triode mode all the time, does that do anything weird to your power tubes eventually?



Other than causing uneven wear due to the uneven use, no. Think of a single headlight that does double duty as both low beams and high beams. Most people leave it on low and the bulbs likely last longer than way, but in time it goes out and it takes the high beams out with it. -Rod-


----------



## dave999z

USAPatriot said:


> Other than causing uneven wear due to the uneven use, no. Think of a single headlight that does double duty as both low beams and high beams. Most people leave it on low and the bulbs likely last longer than way, but in time it goes out and it takes the high beams out with it. -Rod-



OK, so power tubes actually will last longer running in triode mode?

I thought the electron flow in a pentode normally goes...

cathode-->control grid-->screen-->suppressor-->anode plate

...and that triode mode simply removes (grounds out) the screen and suppressor, which means less power because the screen and suppressor normally make the tube more efficient.

And I thought, since it's generally the cathode's coating that wears out in a tube (right?), running the tube less efficiently would actually wear out the cathode faster. But I'm probably missing something.


----------



## rpinon69

Hello To All

I have my DSL40C arriving today can't wait to get out of work to plug in I have been reading this thread since I pulled the trigger on the purchase (I am on page 32) there is a tremendous amount of useful information.

I wanted to thank you all in advanced I am going to take Micky's advise and get to know the amp with all stock components and take it from there. 


Salud
Ramon


----------



## Micky

Glad to have you aboard!


----------



## rpinon69

Micky said:


> Glad to have you aboard!



Thank You!


----------



## TheCrunge

Hello all. I just got my DSL40C last week (replaced 1st one that died after 32 days. long story....). This forum is great! This is my first Marshall & 1st tube amp. It is a really great amp. The tones I can get out of this amp is amazing compared to all the solid state amps I have.


----------



## Penguinchit

Welcome Crunge. I'm on my first Marshall as well.

You guys know the overdrive button on the clean channel? I wish that was footswitchable.


----------



## USAPatriot

dave999z said:


> OK, so power tubes actually will last longer running in triode mode?
> 
> I thought the electron flow in a pentode normally goes...
> 
> cathode-->control grid-->screen-->suppressor-->anode plate
> 
> ...and that triode mode simply removes (grounds out) the screen and suppressor, which means less power because the screen and suppressor normally make the tube more efficient.
> 
> And I thought, since it's generally the cathode's coating that wears out in a tube (right?), running the tube less efficiently would actually wear out the cathode faster. But I'm probably missing something.



You have it right. And wrong. Right in the components (so far as I know...3 'odes' versus 5... and while the extra components do make it more efficient, THAT is what allows...in the case of the EL's...to be a nominal 25w instead of 15. It's the difference between EL-34's (pentodes) and EL-84's (triodes). You're running the same power level through pin 3 but there's less being drawn down by the anodes. It should be a wash in that aspect but if you add in the cumulative effects of heat, then triode mode should give you a theoretical lifespan advantage. At least that's how I see it.

I finally did flip the switch over to pentode on mine but also boosted the gain and MV so do not have a clear picture on the differences tonally between the two modes. I did like it in triode mode, no doubt, and after I do the tube swap, choke n such I'll probably flip it back down. Wife having surgery tomorrow so am not sure when I can actually get this done. The chassis is out as of last night, I just need to start testing and drilling, etc. -Rod-


----------



## dave999z

I was looking at it this way... running the amp in triode mode _at a specific SPL (say 100 dB)_ will run the tubes hotter and wear them out more quickly than if you switched to pentode mode _and then turned the volume knob down so that you're still producing only that same SPL (100 dB)_. But you get the benefit of the tubes _sounding _like they would if you ran in pentode mode and produced the louder output.

Stated differently, if I want to practice for an hour at 100 dB, I can (a) run in triode mode, or (b) switch to pentode mode and turn the volume down. And between those two options, (a) runs the tubes hotter and wears them out more quickly, but arguably sounds better.

But maybe I'm wrong (often the case).


----------



## solarburn

rpinon69 said:


> Hello To All
> 
> I have my DSL40C arriving today can't wait to get out of work to plug in I have been reading this thread since I pulled the trigger on the purchase (I am on page 32) there is a tremendous amount of useful information.
> 
> I wanted to thank you all in advanced I am going to take Micky's advise and get to know the amp with all stock components and take it from there.
> 
> 
> Salud
> Ramon



Welcome aboard!

Have fun today and happy new amp day!(HNAD)


----------



## solarburn

TheCrunge said:


> Hello all. I just got my DSL40C last week (replaced 1st one that died after 32 days. long story....). This forum is great! This is my first Marshall & 1st tube amp. It is a really great amp. The tones I can get out of this amp is amazing compared to all the solid state amps I have.



Welcome to the forum! Good times here. Sounds like you're having as much fun as I am playing through it.

I'd be interested in a short version of how the first one took a shit. Just curious...


----------



## USAPatriot

dave999z said:


> I was looking at it this way... running the amp in triode mode _at a specific SPL (say 100 dB)_ will run the tubes hotter and wear them out more quickly than if you switched to pentode mode _and then turned the volume knob down so that you're still producing only that same SPL (100 dB)_. But you get the benefit of the tubes _sounding _like they would if you ran in pentode mode and produced the louder output.
> 
> Stated differently, if I want to practice for an hour at 100 dB, I can (a) run in triode mode, or (b) switch to pentode mode and turn the volume down. And between those two options, (a) runs the tubes hotter and wears them out more quickly, but arguably sounds better.
> 
> But maybe I'm wrong (often the case).



No, I think you're right. On any setting if you push it you're going to reduce the tube life versus running at say, 1/2 that level. But tonally, running at 40w at a lower MV level is far different than flipping it to 20w and turning it up. Tonally, up is usually better than down, though there's a lot of things going on in that respect as we know. I *THINK* the difference between 20 and 40w with everything dimed is only 2 or 3 db in speaker output. I guess you need to decide which character you like best, 20 versus 40w. There's no real way to test the lifespan question, one against the other as one couldn't ascertain that two sets of tubes started out life equally and likewise had equal qualities across the board. -Rod-


----------



## USAPatriot

Marshall tells me that Marshall branded EL34B's (for our DSL's) with TAD stickers on the base are Mullard reissues. -Rod-


----------



## solarburn

USAPatriot said:


> No, I think you're right. On any setting if you push it you're going to reduce the tube life versus running at say, 1/2 that level. But tonally, running at 40w at a lower MV level is far different than flipping it to 20w and turning it up. Tonally, up is usually better than down, though there's a lot of things going on in that respect as we know. I *THINK* the difference between 20 and 40w with everything dimed is only 2 or 3 db in speaker output. I guess you need to decide which character you like best, 20 versus 40w. There's no real way to test the lifespan question, one against the other as one couldn't ascertain that two sets of tubes started out life equally and likewise had equal qualities across the board. -Rod-



Tonally is the significant difference between the 2. At 20 watts the amp runs cleaner and has more top end bite. Can hurt if you don't tend that EQ. And yeah running it harder shortens power tube life.

At higher volume is where it cleans up and gets really sharp until you hit a sweet spot...enough of the power section fills it in. I find that about 4 on the knob(11 am). A lil fine tuning or backing off treble/presence and It's fine...with my guitars. Running it this way is plexi like in that the tone is really bright until enough volume is added then it warms up. That's why I say it's vintage like in that regard. 

At lower volume it isn't as sharp because the amp doesn't clean up and open up until you raise the volume. I've been playing at 20 watts for a week now with volume around 11am. Been having fun with mid gain stuff. I will say my ears are getting roughed up in the room I'm in. It's loud and proud.

The only real issue I have is roll off can get a bit sharp even with the tone knob. Full on its good. So it rides the line of being too trebly with the saturation cleaner like it gets. It's like a Fender/Marshall mix...kinda. I get this twangy dirt.LOL Running delay like I do softens the razors edge so to speak. 20 watts can be great for blues and rock. Don't know how it is running high gain. I don't go there.


----------



## TheCrunge

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Welcome to the forum! Good times here. Sounds like you're having as much fun as I am playing through it.
> 
> I'd be interested in a short version of how the first one took a shit. Just curious...




Well, my 20 year old solid state CRATE head started puking half way through band practice. So I needed a new amp, fast (within a week). So I've been reading about a couple combos and went to Guitar Center and tried a few. The DSL40c was it! Played great for about 36 days then I got tube rattle. I called Guitar Center they said sorry, after 30 days not our problem. So I said there is a 90 day warranty on tubes. They didn't know that. So he (store manager) checked Marshall's website and found out they did warranty them for 90 days. But I have to take it to a service center. All right that sucks. But it still played and sounded great at volume. Until the next day when I was playing and then nothing. All light were on but no sound at all. My Brother told me to call them and demand a new one, so I did. I have 2 stores in my city so the one I bought it from (closest to me) said to bring it in there and then I had to go to the other store (far away from me) and p/u my new amp. I get there to get the new one and it's beat to hell. A thick layer of dust on the front. Paint on the side like someone bashed a wall with it. I said to the mngr "That's obviously not new. I take good care of my equipment." I wanted a new one. So long story longer, he ordered a new one for me and had it shipped to my house. A week later I got it and it sounds way way better than the other one ever did. It must have been sitting there on the floor for a while and had an issue all along. Sorry, I know you said short version, but it's complicated.  All is well, finally. Guitar Center did not have to get me a new one, but they did so I'll give them that. But from now on I want to open that box myself.


----------



## Micky

I have found, more times than I want to post about, that most stores will place returns back out on the floor with only minimal inspection.

The ONLY way to insure a brand-spanking new amp is to order it from MF or Sweetwater. Or WATCH the GC employee break the factory seal...


----------



## solarburn

TheCrunge said:


> Well, my 20 year old solid state CRATE head started puking half way through band practice. So I needed a new amp, fast (within a week). So I've been reading about a couple combos and went to Guitar Center and tried a few. The DSL40c was it! Played great for about 36 days then I got tube rattle. I called Guitar Center they said sorry, after 30 days not our problem. So I said there is a 90 day warranty on tubes. They didn't know that. So he (store manager) checked Marshall's website and found out they did warranty them for 90 days. But I have to take it to a service center. All right that sucks. But it still played and sounded great at volume. Until the next day when I was playing and then nothing. All light were on but no sound at all. My Brother told me to call them and demand a new one, so I did. I have 2 stores in my city so the one I bought it from (closest to me) said to bring it in there and then I had to go to the other store (far away from me) and p/u my new amp. I get there to get the new one and it's beat to hell. A thick layer of dust on the front. Paint on the side like someone bashed a wall with it. I said to the mngr "That's obviously not new. I take good care of my equipment." I wanted a new one. So long story longer, he ordered a new one for me and had it shipped to my house. A week later I got it and it sounds way way better than the other one ever did. It must have been sitting there on the floor for a while and had an issue all along. Sorry, I know you said short version, but it's complicated.  All is well, finally. Guitar Center did not have to get me a new one, but they did so I'll give them that. But from now on I want to open that box myself.



Glad you got a new one. You paid the money and deserve a new working DSL40...not a thrashed used one. Good job on insisting it be that way. 

Play the shit out of it!


----------



## dave999z

Micky said:


> I have found, more times than I want to post about, that most stores will place returns back out on the floor with only minimal inspection.
> 
> The ONLY way to insure a brand-spanking new amp is to order it from MF or Sweetwater. Or WATCH the GC employee break the factory seal...



MF and Sweetwater have the same return policy as GC and you can have the same problem with them. In fact, I have... a pedal from MF and monitors from Sweetwater. Reality is that we all like the benefit of these return policies but there is a fair amount of opened, and sometimes damaged or defective, stuff out there. But if the item is returned within 30 days and the customer didn't identify it as defective (or, sadly, sometimes even if they did), these stores are allowed to sell it again and call it "new." If they couldn't, they wouldn't have these liberal return policies.


----------



## USAPatriot

dave999z said:


> MF and Sweetwater have the same return policy as GC and you can have the same problem with them. In fact, I have... a pedal from MF and monitors from Sweetwater. Reality is that we all like the benefit of these return policies but there is a fair amount of opened, and sometimes damaged or defective, stuff out there. But if the item is returned within 30 days and the customer didn't identify it as defective (or, sadly, sometimes even if they did), these stores are allowed to sell it again and call it "new." If they couldn't, they wouldn't have these liberal return policies.



I've never paid for anything "new" from either AMS or Zzounds that did not have the factory seal intact. New is new with them. I've never done business with MF or Sweetwater and if they are selling open box items as new, then maybe you should make the switch. -Rod-


----------



## dave999z

USAPatriot said:


> I've never paid for anything "new" from either AMS or Zzounds that did not have the factory seal intact. New is new with them. I've never done business with MF or Sweetwater and if they are selling open box items as new, then maybe you should make the switch. -Rod-



Bought my DSL40c from Zzounds! Great deal too ($577, free shipping, no tax).

I just go wherever has the lowest price that day.


----------



## USAPatriot

dave999z said:


> Bought my DSL40c from Zzounds! Great deal too ($577, free shipping, no tax).



Same here. The original one was a blemmie for $575 or something like that and the blems were two teeny scratches. When I found an issue inside with C86 they sent me a new one...but the tubes were bad and it's taken me two months to gather them all up, finally getting the last of them yesterday. Still, I saved $150! I'll be glad when the tubes and choke are in. I'll be documenting everything. -Rod-


----------



## rpinon69

USAPatriot said:


> I've never paid for anything "new" from either AMS or Zzounds that did not have the factory seal intact. New is new with them. I've never done business with MF or Sweetwater and if they are selling open box items as new, then maybe you should make the switch. -Rod-



I purchased DSL40C from Sweetwater I paid $575 they originally had for $620 but I do quite a bit of business with them so my "Sales Engineer" Ed found some wiggle room.

He explained to me that it was an open box demo unit they used for some workshop they held, but it showed up in the original box like new with full manufacturers warranty. 

PART 2

As I mentioned above I just received it yesterday and I was able to spend about 2 hours before they shut me down but I immediately noticed the "fizz factor" on the Lead 2 channel.

How exactly does the C19 mod work to alleviate this? 

Thanks


----------



## MarshallDog

rpinon69 said:


> I purchased DSL40C from Sweetwater I paid $575 they originally had for $620 but I do quite a bit of business with them so my "Sales Engineer" Ed found some wiggle room.
> 
> He explained to me that it was an open box demo unit they used for some workshop they held, but it showed up in the original box like new with full manufacturers warranty.
> 
> PART 2
> 
> As I mentioned above I just received it yesterday and I was able to spend about 2 hours before they shut me down but I immediately noticed the "fizz factor" on the Lead 2 channel.
> 
> How exactly does the C19 mod work to alleviate this?
> 
> Thanks



Takes fuzz away just makes it sound less modern and more rich and let's say thick. More in line with the crunch/clean channel with a lot more gain. I love it and use a 100pf cap I place of the stock 470 pF buts that's me.


----------



## USAPatriot

MarshallDog said:


> Takes fuzz away just makes it sound less modern and more rich and let's say thick. More in line with the crunch/clean channel with a lot more gain. I love it and use a 100pf cap I place of the stock 470 pF buts that's me.



I'm going to custom create and patent "Venger's Dial-A-'Rad", a micro-mini varicap with a micro-mini LED display to tell you the exact value it's currently (pun intended) set at, 0-999pF  -Rod-


----------



## rpinon69

MarshallDog said:


> Takes fuzz away just makes it sound less modern and more rich and let's say thick. More in line with the crunch/clean channel with a lot more gain. I love it and use a 100pf cap I place of the stock 470 pF buts that's me.



So my options are to remove the C19 from the circuit or replace it with a lower value.

This is why I blown away by some of you guys on the forum that you can take these amps a part and mod them I know my limitations and changing a capacitor on a circuit board is it.

So if I choose to replace the cap what type of cap would I buy what type of material between the 2 plates (ceramic, tantalum, electrolytic, silver mica etc.....)


----------



## MarshallDog

rpinon69 said:


> So my options are to remove the C19 from the circuit or replace it with a lower value.
> 
> This is why I blown away by some of you guys on the forum that you can take these amps a part and mod them I know my limitations and changing a capacitor on a circuit board is it.
> 
> So if I choose to replace the cap what type of cap would I buy what type of material between the 2 plates (ceramic, tantalum, electrolytic, silver mica etc.....)



Its simple but you should remove the board IMO, it makes cleaning out the solder eyelets on the PCB much easier and it is much more difficult to lift a trace. What I do is after removing the cap, I solder in its place two short stiff wires and then simply solder the cap to these wires. Why, If you decide you don't like the tone, it is really easy to simply unsolder the cap and try a different value w/o taking out the board and messing with the solder eyelets and traces. These traces will only take so many component change outs.

A ceramic cap rated at 100 - 200 volts will be fine.


----------



## USAPatriot

MarshallDog said:


> Its simple but you should remove the board IMO, it makes cleaning out the solder eyelets on the PCB much easier and it is much more difficult to lift a trace. What I do is after removing the cap, I solder in its place two short stiff wires and then simply solder the cap to these wires. Why, If you decide you don't like the tone, it is really easy to simply unsolder the cap and try a different value w/o taking out the board and messing with the solder eyelets and traces. These traces will only take so many component change outs.
> 
> A ceramic cap rated at 100 - 200 volts will be fine.



I've gone over my photos of the PCB fairly well, getting familiar with the circuits but haven't looked at the attachments. Is there anything unusual about removing the PCB? Anything I should be wary of? Thanks. -Rod-


----------



## Jethro Rocker

rpinon69 said:


> So my options are to remove the C19 from the circuit or replace it with a lower value.
> 
> This is why I blown away by some of you guys on the forum that you can take these amps a part and mod them I know my limitations and changing a capacitor on a circuit board is it.
> 
> So if I choose to replace the cap what type of cap would I buy what type of material between the 2 plates (ceramic, tantalum, electrolytic, silver mica etc.....)


I simply clipped one end of the cap. It makes OD1 on lead channel less harsh, keeps the EQ in line with crunch channel. Worked wonders for me, not sure what it did to OD2, nothing I don't think. Cheers!


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Hi Guys, New member & New Amp Day here! Just finally got a DSL40C today and have been playing it for the last couple of hours... lots if sweet tones in this amp. I'm going to break this in before I make any changes, right out of the box this amp is not bad at all it does have the new speaker harshness but that should mellow out a bit, my PRS McCarty sounds great with this amp its not overly bright which is a good thing!

Here is my setup at the moment just guitar into amp!


----------



## solarburn

Mine is still stock and I haven't heard a better sounding DSL40C here yet.

Fizz goes away with volume. Too much gain on L2 sounds like shit too me. About 9:30 10am sounds great with the right amount of power section mixed in.

Break the speaker in and the tone will change. Then mod it. Any speaker for that matter needs to break in or your base line EQ impressions will not be accurate.

You want a better DSL change the OT and add a choke. For me the C19 mod enables you to use same EQ settings for green and Red L1. I prefer L1 cutting though because I'd add volume/gain and I use L2 along with the same EQ on Green voicing. So I don't need it.

Get to know the amp first. A solid base line of what it does with speaker broke in. Then tweak. I'm no stranger to modded amps. I know what they can and can't do. I'd get get it dialled in first and then fine tune them short comings. Tube changes in just V1 and V2 may help. Speaker change can change things quite a bit. I'd do circuit changes last unless I wanted L1 to match the green channel EQ wise. Only reason I'd do C19.


----------



## solarburn

J.LaGrassa said:


> Hi Guys, New member & New Amp Day here! Just finally got a DSL40C today and have been playing it for the last couple of hours... lots if sweet tones in this amp. I'm going to break this in before I make any changes, right out of the box this amp is not bad at all it does have the new speaker harshness but that should mellow out a bit, my PRS McCarty sounds great with this amp its not overly bright which is a good thing!
> 
> Here is my setup at the moment just guitar into amp!



Nice. Welcome to the club. I agree. Play the shit out of it first.


----------



## TheCrunge

J.LaGrassa said:


> Hi Guys, New member & New Amp Day here! Just finally got a DSL40C today and have been playing it for the last couple of hours... lots if sweet tones in this amp. I'm going to break this in before I make any changes, right out of the box this amp is not bad at all it does have the new speaker harshness but that should mellow out a bit, my PRS McCarty sounds great with this amp its not overly bright which is a good thing!
> 
> Here is my setup at the moment just guitar into amp!



Sweet guitar! Looks great in front of that Marshall. I'm sure it sounds even better.


----------



## kingbee

Front and rear shot of my DSL40C this past weekend while warming up the crowd for Marshall Tucker and Charlie Daniels in Albany, NY. I love this amp. The other guitar player next to me just bought one and used it the night before but insisted on his half stack for this.


----------



## solarburn

Awesome to see pics of them in action. Would have loved to have heard them in action together.

Oh and that must've been fun tuning the crowd up before MT & CD's...too cool.


----------



## dave999z

Received my WGS Invader 50 speaker today and popped it in. I'm going to try and reserve judgment, because I find it's fun to try most any new speaker just because they sound different, so you can sometimes be overly positive off the bat. But my first impression is... WOW, this speaker sounds friggin awesome in this amp. It has a wide green crunch breakup range, and OD1 sings. Most importantly, it seems to have killed both the high pitch screeching and shrill ice pick sound I was getting on OD1 (oh and has noticeably less fizz too). But it's not dead or muffled sounding by any means -- great harmonics, and there's a cool midrange (a TINY bit like that haunting Robben Ford / Dumble tone -- but I'm not saying it makes this into a D-style amp). And tight low end (let me save you the trouble... "That's what s/he said").

I'll see how it breaks in over the next week and how my ears adjust to it. I will try to do a quick video comparing 3 different speakers in my DSL40c... The stock seventy 80, a G12T-75, and the Invader. (Hey, those are what I have.)


----------



## J.LaGrassa

dave999z said:


> Received my WGS Invader 50 speaker today and popped it in. I'm going to try and reserve judgment, because I find it's fun to try most any new speaker just because they sound different. But my first impression is... WOW, this speaker sounds friggin awesome in this amp. It has a wide green crunch breakup range, and OD1 sings. Most importantly, it seems to have killed both the high pitch screeching and shrill ice pick sound I was getting on OD1. But it's not dead or muffled sounding by any means -- great harmonics. And tight low end (let me save you the trouble... "That's what s/he said").
> 
> I'll see how it breaks in over the next week and how my ears adjust to it. I will try to do a quick video comparing 3 different speakers in my DSL40c... The stock seventy 80, a G12T-75, and the Invader. (Hey, those are what I have.)



look forward to the video, thanks for the report on the Invader.


----------



## solarburn

Well that sounds damn positive right out of the box. Look forward to hearing more about it too.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Anyone using Boss style effects in the loop, thinking of getting a DD-3 delay and possibly a chorus but not sure if the loop is too hot for that type of pedal or should you just use line level fx?


----------



## Micky

I have an EQ-7 in the loop and it is definitely not too hot.
Wish it had more sensitivity, and I have to crank the eq up all the way to get a boost.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Was messing around with my Tascam DR-05 to see how the DSL would sound, here is a little clip of me just goofing around but I think the amp sounds great recorded and its totally stock!


PRS McCarty straight into the DSL40, Crunch channel first then OD-1
[SC]https://soundcloud.com/jlagrassa-1/marshall-dsl40c[/SC]


----------



## CarlosPrex

MarkJ said:


> In case anyone is interested, I've just posted a video of how I added LED lights to my DLS 40c foot switch. So far this setup seems to be working just fine, and it's nice having the indicators on the pedal.
> 
> How To Install LED Lights On a Marshall DSL 40c Food Switch (Channel Select & Reverb)
> 
> I hope it helps others.
> 
> Mark



Ok, I´m going to install this LEDs on mine 
but I want to install an input jack too in order to easily connect and disconnect a cable on it, but not sure what type of input jack should I buy.


Any help would be highly appreciated

Thanks in advance

Carlos


----------



## solarburn

J.LaGrassa said:


> Was messing around with my Tascam DR-05 to see how the DSL would sound, here is a little clip of me just goofing around but I think the amp sounds great recorded and its totally stock!
> 
> 
> PRS McCarty straight into the DSL40, Crunch channel first then OD-1
> [SC]https://soundcloud.com/jlagrassa-1/marshall-dsl40c[/SC]



That's the shit right there.

Great Marshall tone and playing. Thoroughly enjoyed both!


----------



## Roger Tyria

CarlosPrex said:


> Ok, I´m going to install this LEDs on mine
> but I want to install an input jack too in order to easily connect and disconnect a cable on it, but not sure what type of input jack should I buy.
> 
> 
> Any help would be highly appreciated
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> Carlos


Carlos
You will need a 1/4" TRS Jack, like you would use for a stereo jack. You will also need to get a 1/4" male TRS plug like the one that is on the end of the current foot switch cable.

Do your self a favor and check the actual voltage on your pedal as shown in the video. You may or may not have 10v available. I know my 40c only has 5vdc for the foot switch circuit and is power limited to the point it will not drive an LED.

Good Luck!


----------



## J.LaGrassa

solarburnDSL50 said:


> That's the shit right there.
> 
> Great Marshall tone and playing. Thoroughly enjoyed both!



Thanks!

Just got back from Jamming with another band and had a ball with the amp, each time I use it the speaker sounds better and better. Picked up a Boss DD3 today for use in the fx loop and it works great I also put a clean boost in the loop for solos... no problem being heard now.


----------



## TheCrunge

J.LaGrassa said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Just got back from Jamming with another band and had a ball with the amp, each time I use it the speaker sounds better and better. Picked up a Boss DD3 today for use in the fx loop and it works great I also put a clean boost in the loop for solos... no problem being heard now.



I agree. Mine sounds better and better every jam. Is this amp's awesomeness just going to get better and better till it creates a rift in subspace and destroys the universe? I hope so!


----------



## CarlosPrex

Roger Tyria said:


> Carlos
> You will need a 1/4" TRS Jack, like you would use for a stereo jack. You will also need to get a 1/4" male TRS plug like the one that is on the end of the current foot switch cable.
> 
> Do your self a favor and check the actual voltage on your pedal as shown in the video. You may or may not have 10v available. I know my 40c only has 5vdc for the foot switch circuit and is power limited to the point it will not drive an LED.
> 
> Good Luck!



I see.
Thanks Roger!


----------



## CarlosPrex

Roger Tyria said:


> Carlos
> You will need a 1/4" TRS Jack, like you would use for a stereo jack. You will also need to get a 1/4" male TRS plug like the one that is on the end of the current foot switch cable.
> 
> Do your self a favor and check the actual voltage on your pedal as shown in the video. You may or may not have 10v available. I know my 40c only has 5vdc for the foot switch circuit and is power limited to the point it will not drive an LED.
> 
> Good Luck!



Roger
I found this, correct?

Switchcraft 1/4" Stereo input jack: 
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Switchcraft-Stereo-3-Conductor-Double-Circuit/dp/B0049BOCSC/ref=sr_1_1?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1402154929&sr=1-1&keywords=switchcraft+stereo+jack"]Amazon.com: Switchcraft 1/4" Stereo 3-Conductor Input Jack, Double Open Circuit (Type 12B): Musical Instruments[/ame]

Switchcraft 1/4 TRS plug: 
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Switchcraft-297-Stereo-4-Inch-Nickel/dp/B00C5B1SDK/ref=sr_1_1?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1402155031&sr=1-1&keywords=switchcraft+stereo+plug"]http://www.amazon.com/Switchcraft-297-Stereo-4-Inch-Nickel/dp/B00C5B1SDK/ref=sr_1_1?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1402155031&sr=1-1&keywords=switchcraft+stereo+plug [/ame]

.
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Switchcraft-297-Stereo-4-Inch-Nickel/dp/B00C5B1SDK/ref=sr_1_1?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1402155031&sr=1-1&keywords=switchcraft+stereo+plug"][/ame]


----------



## Jethro Rocker

^^^^ yep.


----------



## gibguy

Earlier in the thread people were commenting on cranking this amp and I couldn't agree more. I built a 2/12 bottom to fit right under my 40c loaded with a swamp thang and texas heat. Both high sensitivity speakers. That equals LOUD. Master on about 2 and bliss. Seems when you start getting the amp really starting to work it changes dimension. Instead of just playing guitar you start to play amp and guitar as a whole unit. Convoluted what I'm trying to say but yeah loud is good stuff.


----------



## Micky

gibguy said:


> Earlier in the thread people were commenting on cranking this amp and I couldn't agree more. I built a 2/12 bottom to fit right under my 40c loaded with a swamp thang and texas heat. Both high sensitivity speakers. That equals LOUD. Master on about 2 and bliss. Seems when you start getting the amp really starting to work it changes dimension. Instead of just playing guitar you start to play amp and guitar as a whole unit. Convoluted what I'm trying to say but yeah loud is good stuff.



So a 2X12 with and Eminence Texas Heat coupled with a Swamp Thang sounds great?

Imagine a 1960a/b full stack, one loaded with Heats and the other with Thangs. Pump a DSL40c into THAT and if I could describe LOUD, that is it. 

It is more a feeling than anything else... But I did that and it is the prime definition of overkill. So on a whim, I plugged the full stack with a y-splitter into my DSL5c...

You would think a 5W amp wouldn't have the balls to push 1200W of speaker load, but it can and does. Sounds awesome. I dare say, even better than the 40c on the 1W setting. Either one is certainly loud enough to gig anywhere except outside or a stadium...


----------



## gibguy

I can imagine that Micky! Making plans to add on again soon. I just love the Eminance speakers. My poor 70/80 never even had the chance to break in before I upgraded. Love that lower end PUNCH!


----------



## langmurf

kingbee said:


> Front and rear shot of my DSL40C this past weekend while warming up the crowd for Marshall Tucker and Charlie Daniels in Albany, NY. I love this amp. The other guitar player next to me just bought one and used it the night before but insisted on his half stack for this.



Great photos! Thanks for sharing. I like the front photo for the traffic lights, overpass, and route sign. I like the shot from the back because of the city scape... And love them both for the guys/gear in action aspect. Good stuff!


----------



## USAPatriot

So this evening I decide to start work on my DSL40C. I get my new Eurotubes bias probe out with the thought of easily checking the bias. Bear in mind, I've never owned one of these things before and wish I still didn't. The thing won't read in mA as advertised, only in DCV, of which my amp is running at 469 and 470DCV respectively. Yeah, I complained to them. I didn't feel like taking the chassis out after this so still don't know where the original tubes are biased at lol -Rod-


----------



## J.LaGrassa

USAPatriot said:


> So this evening I decide to start work on my DSL40C. I get my new Eurotubes bias probe out with the thought of easily checking the bias. Bear in mind, I've never owned one of these things before and wish I still didn't. The thing won't read in mA as advertised, only in DCV, of which my amp is running at 469 and 470DCV respectively. Yeah, I complained to them. I didn't feel like taking the chassis out after this so still don't know where the original tubes are biased at lol -Rod-



You have access to another meter to try, the probe could also not be wired right.

This statement is off there instruction, so check the internal fuse in the meter

*DO NOT CHANGE THE FUNCTION SWITCH ON YOUR MULTIMETER WHILE IT IS HOOKED UP TO THE AMP! This will blow the fuse in the meter and you will need to replace it! Make sure the meter is set properly and the probe is plugged into the meter before you plug the probe into your amp.*


----------



## USAPatriot

J.LaGrassa said:


> You have access to another meter to try, the probe could also not be wired right.
> 
> This statement is off there instruction, so check the internal fuse in the meter
> 
> *DO NOT CHANGE THE FUNCTION SWITCH ON YOUR MULTIMETER WHILE IT IS HOOKED UP TO THE AMP! This will blow the fuse in the meter and you will need to replace it! Make sure the meter is set properly and the probe is plugged into the meter before you plug the probe into your amp.*



I actually grabbed a 9v battery and tested that and the meter is working fine. I couldn't sleep last night so got up and pulled the chassis and checked the bias of the original tubes directly at CON5 and came up with 36 and 39 respectively. Interestingly, as I dropped V6 down, V5 came up, and V5 wound up at 40 and V6 at 37. Grumble. Today I'll pop those tubes out and get the new ones in and see where they sit. The original tubes are M-VLVE-00092 while the new ones are M-VLVE 00101. I have no idea how the characteristics differ, if at all. -Rod-


----------



## Micky

I have no need for that type of bias probe...
If you can't measure bias without a probe - learn how.

You are doing fine Rob...


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> I have no need for that type of bias probe...
> If you can't measure bias without a probe - learn how.
> 
> You are doing fine Rob...



It was an impulse buy...a way to supposedly do spot checks on my bias without taking the chassis out every time. I've never had the need for one and it looks like I still don't. lol

Does someone make a connector that will fit over CON5? Maybe I'll just externalize the posts. I could solder in 3 wires to 3 small jacks, but that's just extra work.

Is it normal for the bias on the DSL's to drift when adjusting one tube, bringing the other down or pushing it up? Or is it because my current tubes are flaky? According to the little stickers on the 34B's they were matched at 42mA, so you'd think they'd behave alike, but they sure didn't. V5 went way up to 40 when I nudged V6 down and then the set did it again when I nudged V5 down. I finally "settled" at 37 and 38, but that's not acceptable. I assume it's because the tubes have problems. This was an academic exercise, just to learn how the DSL works in real life. With luck the new tubes will just settle in where I set them...or am I going to be chasing the values? I guess I need to directly measure from pin 3 to see what the real voltage is. The probe said 469 and 470, which is probably correct, but maybe not since it has an issue! 
-Rod-


----------



## Mike082377

Quick question: I have had two DSL40c's (I returned my first one because I got it for a better price and guitar center would not match the price). On both units the power and standby switches were a little wobbly; they move a little bit. Does anyone else have that problem and is is it a concern?


----------



## solarburn

I can move mine side to side a bit. Does not concern me. I would term it with a bit of play but not loose in the chassis.


----------



## USAPatriot

*Top photo, Marshall's VLVE-00092 EL34B.*




*Next photo, the VLVE 00101 EL34B. Note the extra internal wire making a "Y" shape. I wonder what it does?*





*Any thoughts on the changes in the wiring? -Rod-*


----------



## Micky

USAPatriot said:


> It was an impulse buy...a way to supposedly do spot checks on my bias without taking the chassis out every time. I've never had the need for one and it looks like I still don't. lol
> 
> Does someone make a connector that will fit over CON5? Maybe I'll just externalize the posts. I could solder in 3 wires to 3 small jacks, but that's just extra work.
> 
> Is it normal for the bias on the DSL's to drift when adjusting one tube, bringing the other down or pushing it up? Or is it because my current tubes are flaky? According to the little stickers on the 34B's they were matched at 42mA, so you'd think they'd behave alike, but they sure didn't. V5 went way up to 40 when I nudged V6 down and then the set did it again when I nudged V5 down. I finally "settled" at 37 and 38, but that's not acceptable. I assume it's because the tubes have problems. This was an academic exercise, just to learn how the DSL works in real life. With luck the new tubes will just settle in where I set them...or am I going to be chasing the values? I guess I need to directly measure from pin 3 to see what the real voltage is. The probe said 469 and 470, which is probably correct, but maybe not since it has an issue!
> -Rod-



Why is 37 and 38 not acceptable? What were you shooting for?

And yes, it is normal for one side to move a bit while adjusting the other. 

What you are experiencing has more to do with your meter than with the amp. You gotta remember, +/- 5% is an acceptable range as per Marshall's specs. Let's take a nice even integer like 40. Five percent of 40 is 2. So 38-42 should be an acceptable range for this arbitrary number.

If your meter (from your photo) isn't of the highest quality, it might also have an accuracy range of 5% also, plus 2 units. If you have the specs you can look this up. My Fluke 87 v.5 has an accuracy of .05% +1 digit. This is incredible for a handheld meter, but you pay a price for that accuracy.

To get you in an acceptable range your meter is fine. Especially when you are within the 5% tolerance Marshall suggests. Depending on your plate voltage, and the percentage point that you want to bias at, your meter is probably gonna be accurate enough for 1mv either way, and in your case you will not hear any audible difference whatsoever.

Check the Oscilloscope thread, and if you are that concerned, find a scope and bias it via the crossover method. (google how to do this, used for hi-fi cork-sniffers) Then measure the bias via the scope or a DMM and I think you will be surprised how far off the actual current difference between the tubes might be. TC numbers printed on a tube are relative, who actually knows what tester was used and it's last calibration date? There are more variables to tubes than that...


----------



## Mike082377

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I can move mine side to side a bit. Does not concern me. I would term it with a bit of play but not loose in the chassis.



Cool thanks. That's how I would describe it. In my 2203, the switches don't move at all so I thought I would ask.


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> Why is 37 and 38 not acceptable? What were you shooting for?
> 
> And yes, it is normal for one side to move a bit while adjusting the other.
> 
> What you are experiencing has more to do with your meter than with the amp. You gotta remember, +/- 5% is an acceptable range as per Marshall's specs. Let's take a nice even integer like 40. Five percent of 40 is 2. So 38-42 should be an acceptable range for this arbitrary number.
> 
> If your meter (from your photo) isn't of the highest quality, it might also have an accuracy range of 5% also, plus 2 units. If you have the specs you can look this up. My Fluke 87 v.5 has an accuracy of .05% +1 digit. This is incredible for a handheld meter, but you pay a price for that accuracy.
> 
> To get you in an acceptable range your meter is fine. Especially when you are within the 5% tolerance Marshall suggests. Depending on your plate voltage, and the percentage point that you want to bias at, your meter is probably gonna be accurate enough for 1mv either way, and in your case you will not hear any audible difference whatsoever.
> 
> Check the Oscilloscope thread, and if you are that concerned, find a scope and bias it via the crossover method. (google how to do this, used for hi-fi cork-sniffers) Then measure the bias via the scope or a DMM and I think you will be surprised how far off the actual current difference between the tubes might be. TC numbers printed on a tube are relative, who actually knows what tester was used and it's last calibration date? There are more variables to tubes than that...



True about the accuracy of the meter, Micky. I just want to have a narrower range if possible. I assume that the meter is consistent within it's accuracy range, even if it's +/- 5%. 
New tubes are in and I'm getting voltage at pin 3 of 460V on both sockets. That puts the bias at about 34mV which isn't sitting well with me either, using the 70% dissipation rule. Right now I've got left CON5 sitting at 36 and right CON5 sitting at 35.5. In 30 minutes I'll see if it's stable enough to narrow it a little and decide if I should cut it back or just do what everyone else does and go with 38. -Rod-


----------



## Micky

I set mine at 36 last time if I remember.

Haven't put a scope on it yet, but been playing the DSL5c so I haven't opened up the 40c in a while.
Stop 'fretting' about bias and tubes an just play the bitch! Life is too short...

(sig worth statement...)


----------



## USAPatriot

I got it narrowed pretty well and it's stable after an hour. The voltage leveled out at 462 on each tube and one side biased in the low 37's and the otherside the mid-37's. That's as good as I hoped for. My Jet City isn't so touchy, just set each side, no muss or fuss. My old HT-40 was even better. Cathode biased but there was a balance pot in there to tweak so both sides were close to equal. It's cooling off while the wife is napping. I'll test drive it after she wakes up but I can already tell that it's like 300% quieter than it was before I started. I put in new preamp tubes too, still OEM's but hopefully a better V1. In a few weeks I think it'll be time to shove those Retrovalves in there and see how they do  -Rod-


----------



## USAPatriot

*GADZooks Batman!*

Cranked her up and even at idle the amp was pretty close to silent on Red2, just a little bit of a hum. And the fizz? WHAT FIZZ? And that was with the gain set at 3. Usually the gain set at 2 filled the room with white noise. And yeah, I did clip C-19. 

Pin 3 voltage 462dcv, Bias on V5 in ~37.2mv, Bias on V6 is ~37.6mv. That's probably as close as I can reasonably expect to get them. The values held steady over a period of an hour before I even bothered to try playing.

I only played about 20 minutes as it was nearing 10pm and we live in a townhouse complex, but the amp was just terrific and very touch/velocity sensitive. I could play quietly and clean with the volume up and if I nailed the strings all this wonderful dirt came out and it sustained forever, though there were oscillations in the decay that I wish weren't there. Is there a cure for that? I've got my reverb in the loop but the oscillations weren't from the reverb. It seems more like a signal bleedover from somewhere. The only task left to do is move the V30 from the cab into the combo...though I could try the Jet City Eminence in the combo first. Thoughts? Micky? -Rod-


----------



## CarlosPrex

Roger Tyria said:


> Carlos
> 
> Do your self a favor and check the actual voltage on your pedal as shown in the video. You may or may not have 10v available. I know my 40c only has 5vdc for the foot switch circuit and is power limited to the point it will not drive an LED.
> 
> Good Luck!



Now I can define "dissapointed"
4.94v on my footswitch

...I wonder how Mark could get those 10.2v
My DSL40C was purchased brand new on January 2014 from MusiciansFriend


----------



## Micky

Maybe you can PM Mark and ask him more questions here in this thread?

I am certain we can sort out a lot of differences here if we all look closely...


----------



## Roger Tyria

CarlosPrex said:


> Roger
> I found this, correct?
> 
> Switchcraft 1/4" Stereo input jack:
> Amazon.com: Switchcraft 1/4" Stereo 3-Conductor Input Jack, Double Open Circuit (Type 12B): Musical Instruments
> 
> Switchcraft 1/4 TRS plug:
> http://www.amazon.com/Switchcraft-297-Stereo-4-Inch-Nickel/dp/B00C5B1SDK/ref=sr_1_1?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1402155031&sr=1-1&keywords=switchcraft+stereo+plug
> 
> .
> http://www.amazon.com/Switchcraft-2...55031&sr=1-1&keywords=switchcraft+stereo+plug


Carlos,
I would go with an insulated jack so the common is not connected to the foot sw chassis. Not that it will make much difference, but probably better to keep this circuit isolated from the case if possible.
Here is a link for a "Cliff" type jack that keeps all the terminals isolated from the chassis. The plug you picked out is correct to match the jack.

Check here https://tubedepot.com/products/cliff-504-1-4-jack
you can probably find the same jack @ Amazon as well if that is your prefered supplier.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Where do you find the schematics for the DSL40C, I like to just have it for reference or if I ever do need it. I've found a lot of older models but nothing listed on the DSL40
*************************************************************************************************************


Never mind I got it, Thanks Roger!


----------



## Roger Tyria

No Problem


----------



## CarlosPrex

Roger Tyria said:


> Carlos,
> I would go with an insulated jack so the common is not connected to the foot sw chassis. Not that it will make much difference, but probably better to keep this circuit isolated from the case if possible.
> Here is a link for a "Cliff" type jack that keeps all the terminals isolated from the chassis. The plug you picked out is correct to match the jack.
> 
> Check here https://tubedepot.com/products/cliff-504-1-4-jack
> you can probably find the same jack @ Amazon as well if that is your prefered supplier.



Thanks Roger

BTW, what about this post I have almost forgotten?
This post -older than Mike´s- states how leds were successfully installed having just 4.9v 
http://www.marshallforum.com/marshall-amps/65858-dsl40c-adding-leds-footswitch.html


----------



## CarlosPrex

Roger Tyria said:


> Carlos,
> I would go with an insulated jack so the common is not connected to the foot sw chassis. Not that it will make much difference, but probably better to keep this circuit isolated from the case if possible.
> Here is a link for a "Cliff" type jack that keeps all the terminals isolated from the chassis. The plug you picked out is correct to match the jack.
> 
> Check here https://tubedepot.com/products/cliff-504-1-4-jack
> you can probably find the same jack @ Amazon as well if that is your prefered supplier.




and what about this?
https://www.parts-express.com/neutrik-nmj6hc-s-1-4-stereo-phone-jack-switched--090-976


----------



## Roger Tyria

CarlosPrex said:


> and what about this?
> https://www.parts-express.com/neutrik-nmj6hc-s-1-4-stereo-phone-jack-switched--090-976


Yup any insulated jack will be fine.


----------



## USAPatriot

USAPatriot said:


> *Top photo, Marshall's VLVE-00092 EL34B.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Next photo, the VLVE 00101 EL34B. Note the extra internal wire making a "Y" shape. I wonder what it does?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Any thoughts on the changes in the wiring? -Rod-*



No comments on these?

This evening I pulled the V30 out of the Jet City Cab where it'd been temporarily housed and put it into the DSL40C where it was intended to go, and the Eminence came out and went back into the JCA12S cab. I gotta say, the Eminence speaker did very well, though it's a very lightweight model, unlike the one Micky's been using. I think my V30 may weigh as much as the Eminence and 70/80 combined...or pretty close. NOW I get to go try out the V30 in the 40C. I hope it's as good in the open back as it was in the closed cab!!! -Rod-


----------



## Micky

Sorry Rod, I don't play Marshall branded tubes unless I have to.
They are my spares.

I use NOS and TAD's. Exclusively.

Post your photos in the power tube thread and maybe Marty or Alan will comment.


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> Sorry Rod, I don't play Marshall branded tubes unless I have to.
> They are my spares.
> 
> I use NOS and TAD's. Exclusively.
> 
> Post your photos in the power tube thread and maybe Marty or Alan will comment.



I did just that, Micky. thanks. -Rod-


----------



## Micky

As far as speakers go, I will bet the V30 doesn't have the low end 'thump' a higher-wattage speaker designed for both open and closed back operation does. I will bet though that it sounds great, especially in comparison to the 70/80 or some other less expensive, lower quality speaker. Has anyone thrown in a G12T-75 in a 40c?

I think the ultimate for me would be a 40c, in a 2X12 combo cab, with 2X 25W Greenbacks. Would love to hear that...

Anyway, I am falling more in love with my Man-O-War every time I play it...


----------



## J.LaGrassa

If I try a speaker or two I would like to try the Celestion Creamback G12H75 or a WGS Invader, I think they would sound nice in the DSL40 but for now I'm still content with 70/80


----------



## dave999z

I have tried the stock seventy 80 (broken in), a G12T-75 (well broken in), and a WGS Invader (still pretty new) in my DSL40c. I like the Invader the best (by a wide margin), then the seventy 80, then the G12T-75. The Invader has really addressed the fizz, the ice pickiness, the death ray on axis beam, and some of the EQ discrepancy between red and green channels. The only aspects I liked better about the seventy 80 was that it was a little tighter and punchier on the low end and the gain sound was a tiny bit more dirty and aggressive sounding (but that's only good when you want that sound, it's not good when you want smooth creamy leads).

I've had the Invader for a week now. Still haven't logged a ton of hours with it, but I just love it so far. Overdriven leads are fantastic, and the range of breakup on green crunch is great. I'll try to do a video demo.


----------



## Micky

Only thing I liked about the 70/80 was the weight. It was pretty light in comparison to the other speakers I have tried...


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> As far as speakers go, I will bet the V30 doesn't have the low end 'thump' a higher-wattage speaker designed for both open and closed back operation does. I will bet though that it sounds great, especially in comparison to the 70/80 or some other less expensive, lower quality speaker. Has anyone thrown in a G12T-75 in a 40c?
> 
> I think the ultimate for me would be a 40c, in a 2X12 combo cab, with 2X 25W Greenbacks. Would love to hear that...
> 
> Anyway, I am falling more in love with my Man-O-War every time I play it...



The V30 in the 40C definitely has less thump than it did in the closed Jet City cab, but it's still doing alright and better than the 70/80 did for sure. I'd basically had the resonance turned off so now it's sitting at 12 O'clock and it sounds fine.

With C-19 clipped I still get some fizz if I turn the gain up past 4, but it's okay at 3, which is higher than I could get it previously. The crunch channel is better too and I practiced last night most on green crunch with the gain dialed at about 3'oclock.

I also forgot to check voltages and bias in both modes, 20w and 40w. I wanted to do that comparison because it seems no one else has, so that may be a project for tonight. I'm going to have to get some screw inserts as one screw is already refusing to tighten up into the MDF. I'd really like to get some machine screws with hex heads and paint them glossy black. Getting really tired of the screwdriver! -Rod-

BTW, if someone wants to trade something for a 70/80, mine is JUST broken in and the volume was never over 5, basically new. It'll ship in a Celestion speaker box, USA only.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

USAPatriot said:


> The V30 in the 40C definitely has less thump than it did in the closed Jet City cab, but it's still doing alright and better than the 70/80 did for sure. I'd basically had the resonance turned off so now it's sitting at 12 O'clock and it sounds fine.
> 
> With C-19 clipped I still get some fizz if I turn the gain up past 4, but it's okay at 3, which is higher than I could get it previously. The crunch channel is better too and I practiced last night most on green crunch with the gain dialed at about 3'oclock.
> 
> I also forgot to check voltages and bias in both modes, 20w and 40w. I wanted to do that comparison because it seems no one else has, so that may be a project for tonight. I'm going to have to get some screw inserts as one screw is already refusing to tighten up into the MDF. I'd really like to get some machine screws with hex heads and paint them glossy black. Getting really tired of the screwdriver! -Rod-
> 
> BTW, if someone wants to trade something for a 70/80, mine is JUST broken in and the volume was never over 5, basically new. It'll ship in a Celestion speaker box, USA only.




Fill the hole with tooth picks, its a quick fix for stripped out wood screw holes!


----------



## bman

THIS IS TRUE.. My good friend since high school days is my local Marshall dealer. I bought my DSL40 approx. three and a half months ago. Well Yesterday i received a call from him saying that received a new batch of the DSL40c's and the fizz issue seemed to be gone in his new arrivals. I took my guitar down, plugged in and yip. Lead 1 on 8 no fizz, lead 2 between 6 and 8 no fizz and thicker sounding than lead one. He allowed me to swap my 4 month old for the new one for free and called his Marshall rep while I was standing there and told him he had a lemon to return to him. Is this hit and miss or has Marshall made changes? Keep in mind this is w/ stock tubes and the fizz is gone! Anyone else aware of the new batches sounding improved?


----------



## J.LaGrassa

bman said:


> THIS IS TRUE.. My good friend since high school days is my local Marshall dealer. I bought my DSL40 approx. three and a half months ago. Well Yesterday i received a call from him saying that received a new batch of the DSL40c's and the fizz issue seemed to be gone in his new arrivals. I took my guitar down, plugged in and yip. Lead 1 on 8 no fizz, lead 2 between 6 and 8 no fizz and thicker sounding than lead one. He allowed me to swap my 4 month old for the new one for free and called his Marshall rep while I was standing there and told him he had a lemon to return to him. Is this hit and miss or has Marshall made changes? Keep in mind this is w/ stock tubes and the fizz is gone! Anyone else aware of the new batches sounding improved?



i just picked one up last week at Guitar Center came right out of the box, I've been playing mine completely stock and don't have any complaints about fizz. Dont know if there were any changes but i'm not going to get all hung up about the mods... I'm enjoying my stock amp.


----------



## bman

Me too! Leaving my tung-sol and JJ tubes in the closet for quality spares. Marshall has changed something for sure IMO! Btw, when I contacted them direct they said they felt the 70/80 speaker was the best fit for this amp. It was designed for this particular amp. Complete stock for me for now.


----------



## bman

Im serious marshall friends. I have been playing my new dsl at home now for the last few hours and it sounds quite a bit better than the 2013 version I previously owned. Dont mean to start trouble just passing on the word.


----------



## Micky

Too late. Trouble already started.

Define the differences, check the circuit for changes, and let us know what tube numbers you have.

Right now without delay. Troublemaker...


----------



## JEB

bman said:


> Me too! Leaving my tung-sol and JJ tubes in the closet for quality spares. Marshall has changed something for sure IMO! Btw, when I contacted them direct they said they felt the 70/80 speaker was the best fit for this amp. It was designed for this particular amp. Complete stock for me for now.



I'm curious too. Any way you could post a picture of the circuit board too?


----------



## skydog1590

Cripes...just what I did not need to hear


----------



## bman

I willl post some pics tomorrow and you more knowledgeable people can then conclude. Im curious too but dont have the knowledge of some of you guys.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Just got back from playing with my band, the more the speaker breaks in the higher i can add treble it seems. Now the treble is by no means cranked but it is up to 4 on the dial I add just enough to add clarity I also only use Lead 1 with the gain around 6-7 on the dial which is plenty for what I play. My 14 year old stock PRS McCarty is not very bright (thankfully) so that could be a good part of why I am digging the amp stock, anyway the amp is still breaking in nicely!


----------



## dave999z

USAPatriot said:


> I also forgot to check voltages and bias in both modes, 20w and 40w. I wanted to do that comparison because it seems no one else has, so that may be a project for tonight.



I did that when I biased my amp. The readings were exactly the same in pentode mode and triode mode, and on green and red channel.


----------



## USAPatriot

dave999z said:


> I did that when I biased my amp. The readings were exactly the same in pentode mode and triode mode, and on green and red channel.



Thanks, Dave! I appreciate it 

And I'm with Jeb on the issue of the "new" 40C. I'd really like to see pics of the PCB as well as the stock #'s on the tubes. The set of power tubes Marshall just sent me are VLVE-00101, which are different from the 00092's that came with the amp. There's internal wiring changes inside the tubes as well as just the different stock number. -Rod-


----------



## J.LaGrassa

USAPatriot said:


> Thanks, Dave! I appreciate it
> 
> And I'm with Jeb on the issue of the "new" 40C. I'd really like to see pics of the PCB as well as the stock #'s on the tubes. The set of power tubes Marshall just sent me are VLVE-00101, which are different from the 00092's that came with the amp. There's internal wiring changes inside the tubes as well as just the different stock number. -Rod-



I will look at my tubes and see what the stock numbers are, I have a stash of JJ preamp tubes I may try just out of curiosity.

Here are the tube #'s
Power tube - VLVE00092
All Preamp tubes - VLVE 90067

Here is part of my Ser # V2014-04-XXXX-X, wondering if mine was made in April 2014?


----------



## solarburn

USAPatriot said:


> The V30 in the 40C definitely has less thump than it did in the closed Jet City cab, but it's still doing alright and better than the 70/80 did for sure. I'd basically had the resonance turned off so now it's sitting at 12 O'clock and it sounds fine.



Its funny to me how the 70//80 sounds good for some and others find it too trebley or just lacking across the channels. I bet my V1 & V2 AC7/5HG+ help even things out with a nice wamp to boot. It made a noticeable difference and impact EQ wise. So did break in. 

I've got my resonance nob at noon, pres at 9am. Then my treble at 11am, mid and bass hair under noon. These settings stay the same for Green and L2.

My volume is at 11am on green. Gain dimed pushed by either my Marvel Drive or Bad Monkey. L2 volume at 11am gain @ 10:30am.

I'm still happy using the 70/80. the only voicing I think the 70/80 falls short on is the green crunch. Greenbacks or GB like speakers really sound good on the DSL crunch voice.


----------



## 81LesPaul

Its all in the ears man! One mans heaven is not heaven for everyone. There are just so many variables pups, playing technique, location, musical preferences etc its difficult for everyone to be satisfied. 

Nowt wrong with the stock amp IMHO - Its my playin' that needs work .


----------



## Micky

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I'm still happy using the 70/80. the only voicing I think the 70/80 falls short on is the green crunch. Greenbacks or GB like speakers really sound good on the DSL crunch voice.



And that is where I operate most of the time. Classic channel Crunch mode is my sweet spot. The balls I get from the Man-O-War seems to fit this mode nicely.

Maybe I should have just gotten an 800 and been done with it...


----------



## USAPatriot

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Its funny to me how the 70//80 sounds good for some and others find it too trebley or just lacking across the channels. I bet my V1 & V2 AC7/5HG+ help even things out with a nice wamp to boot. It made a noticeable difference and impact EQ wise. So did break in.
> 
> I've got my resonance nob at noon, pres at 9am. Then my treble at 11am, mid and bass hair under noon. These settings stay the same for Green and L2.
> 
> My volume is at 11am on green. Gain dimed pushed by either my Marvel Drive or Bad Monkey. L2 volume at 11am gain @ 10:30am.
> 
> I'm still happy using the 70/80. the only voicing I think the 70/80 falls short on is the green crunch. Greenbacks or GB like speakers really sound good on the DSL crunch voice.



On it's own, I don't think the 70/80 is lacking. It's well balanced. It's just that some other speakers have more of what people want. If I'm not careful my V30 can be really middy, and not in a good way. I definitely have to work around it, but it's just a narrow range of settings that I can't use. I don't think the 70/80 can go there. But the V30 also gives me more low end that I can feel in my gut. For Micky, it's the Eminence that floats his boat. If the 70/80 was the only speaker we could use in the 40C, I'd use it. -Rod-


----------



## solarburn

There are lots of variables why we hear what we here and like what we like.

I find it interesting regarding how the amp sounds stock and watching others mold it into something more to their taste and music they play.

Now I'm thinking I might try an Alnico speaker like a Gold or Blackbird. Creambacks are always on my list. Damn Gold's are nearly $300 though and I still want that Wampler Velvet Fuzz...

So many tone enhancements...too little money. LOL


----------



## Pumpkin88

I think an ext. cab is the way to go. Best of both worlds, keep the 70/80, than use whatever you choose in the ext. I feel that would provide some great dynamics. Obviously your going to need a cab that can run at 16 ohms for it to work right. I'm thinking a Marshall 4x12.


----------



## Micky

Pumpkin88 said:


> I think an ext. cab is the way to go. Best of both worlds, keep the 70/80, than use whatever you choose in the ext. I feel that would provide some great dynamics. Obviously your going to need a cab that can run at 16 ohms for it to work right. I'm thinking a Marshall 4x12.



I think the 70/80 might sound great in a closed cab. The new MX series of cabs has them I think...


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Man what a PITA it is to check the Bias, I wanted to see where the tubes were set. while unscrewing the chassis one screw was spinning but not coming out so i had to help it and when i got it out i heard a little metal clang in the chassis then heard another... yep 2 Pem studs came out of the chassis.... will deal with that later.

Check the bias using the 3 prong connector and it was a little low about 30 mV with the Plate voltage around 455V I set both tubes up at about 36 mV... piece of cake. Now to deal with the two nuts that popped out, I tried to force them back in but that was not working. Went to Home Depot and picked up a few 1/4-20 Speed nut clips placed them over the holes added a little Krazy glue to hold them in place and finally got the chassis back in. The screws are not 1/4-20 probably Metric but they still worked with the clips.

Anyway all is ok Amp running fine and tube bias is fine!

Here is a shot of the clips I had to use, so if this happens to you here is 1 possible solution!


----------



## USAPatriot

J.LaGrassa said:


> I will look at my tubes and see what the stock numbers are, I have a stash of JJ preamp tubes I may try just out of curiosity.
> 
> Here are the tube #'s
> Power tube - VLVE00092
> All Preamp tubes - VLVE 90067
> 
> Here is part of my Ser # V2014-04-XXXX-X, wondering if mine was made in April 2014?



I think that's a good assumption, yes. Mine is V-2013-49-xxxx-x, so I'm not sure what the second set of numbers represents exactly. Or maybe they changed up the numbering system like Gibson does every year.

I wonder why your nuts fell off? -Rod-


----------



## J.LaGrassa

USAPatriot said:


> I think that's a good assumption, yes. Mine is V-2013-49-xxxx-x, so I'm not sure what the second set of numbers represents exactly. Or maybe they changed up the numbering system like Gibson does every year.
> 
> I wonder why your nuts fell off? -Rod-



It's not good when your nuts fall off


----------



## USAPatriot

I was just going through my Jet City JCA22H and cataloging the tubes that are in it...making a list of what's available along with the box of stuff I have, and found a JJ ECC81 in V1. I'm thinking it "might" be a better choice for V1 in my 40C as it's pretty much the warmest preamp tube out there, warmer than the ECC83's...though I can't swear that's the case with Marshall's stock tubes. It "might" cut some of the excess high end out of my amp...or not. What do you think?

I also found an ECC83S in there, also a JJ. For whatever reason, my first 40C had ECC83S's in all 4 slots. This "new" amp came with ECC83's and the replacement tubes that Marshall sent to me are also ECC83's rather than ECC83S's. Unfortunately Tubedepot doesn't have the data graphics for comparisons between tubes when it comes to Marshall's preamp tubes. Any thoughts on using the JJ ECC83S instead of one of Marshall's ECC83's...perhaps in V2? Or over in V4 as a PI?

Yes, I could just roll them in and see what happens, but not talking about it just defeats the purpose of having a DSL40C information thread  -Rod-


----------



## Micky

An ECC81 will have way less gain...


----------



## solarburn

I shouldn't have but I just plugged mine into my bad ass 5153 412 loaded with G12M's.

Phuuuuuuuuuck...

I need a cig. The tone was haught.

I've put this venture off until now. Was exercising self restraint. Its gonna take some positive affirmations(lies) to go back to one speaker cab. I felt surrounded by the 412.LOL


----------



## solarburn

Rod put a Ruby AC7HG+ in V1. Its the same tube as a Preferred Series or TAD 7025s.

Warm and sweet overdrive or crunch.

You want more warmth follow it up with an AC5HG+ in V2.

My NOS could do no better and I have lots of nice glass.

N AT7 in V1...too much neutering. Warm or not I wouldn't use it in a tone slot. As a PI yes.


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> An ECC81 will have way less gain...



That's what I thought, too, Micky, but looking at TD's charts, it's showing a gain of 4. Of course, there's errors in the text too, especially in the 12AX7 section, so maybe the charts have errors, too.

I'd agree that PI may be a better spot but if it does have the gain and warmth, I could maybe live with that. At some point I put it in V1 in the Jet City amp, probably the Summer of 2012, and that worked out well:

JJ ECC81 in V1
JJ ECC83S in V2
An old (90's) Groove Tube in V3
Tungsol 12AX7's in V4, V5. The worst thing I had to deal with was mid range honk. -Rod-


----------



## USAPatriot

Thunderstorm overhead so I'm shutting down. Manana! -Rod-


----------



## Micky

An ECC81 has a gain factor of 60 (approx), Similar to a 12AT7.

It is what I use in V2 of my DSL5c in order to lower the gain a bit on the Classic Crunch channel and increase what little clean headroom there is to a useable level. The Classic Crunch mode on that amp has no gain adjustment and acts more like a plexi than a plexi does...


----------



## solarburn

Micky said:


> An ECC81 has a gainCC81 factor of 60 (approx), Similar to a 12AT7.
> 
> It is what I use in V2 of my DSL5c in order to lower the gain a bit on the Classic Crunch channel and increase what little clean headroom there is to a useable level. The Classic Crunch mode on that amp has no gain adjustment and acts more like a plexi than a plexi does...



They're the same. ECC81 is the European designation for 12AT7.


----------



## Micky

solarburnDSL50 said:


> They're the same. ECC81 is the European designation for 12AT7.



Yup. My point here is that I would NEVER use an 12AT7 in the V1 slot. It is too critical for the later stages to have the proper amplification factor leading up to the input of V2. Since most Clean/Crunch modes use only 1/2 of V1, I feel it is very important to have a 12AX7 or equivalent there, and if you are gonna experiment or possibly attempt to lower the gain, do it with V2 which is strictly a gain stage, and has no real tone-shaping circuitry associated with it.


----------



## solarburn

I've done it with my 50 watter and I had to hit it with a.boost to get some punch out of it. Wasn't a bad tone but it didn't really garner a special sound or feel. By itself it was dull.

I agree it is not a tone tube in our amps.


----------



## bman

Alright guys here is a half ass update on the new 40. Three different preamp tubes in this one and my older DSL housed the same pre tubes in all 4 positions. V1 and v2 are both numbered the same and have red Marshall logo. V3 has a different number and still red logo. V4 has white Marshall logo and yet a different number. I have not had the time to open the board yet.


----------



## Skylarkpilot

bman said:


> Alright guys here is a half ass update on the new 40. Three different preamp tubes in this one and my older DSL housed the same pre tubes in all 4 positions. V1 and v2 are both numbered the same and have red Marshall logo. V3 has a different number and still red logo. V4 has white Marshall logo and yet a different number. I have not had the time to open the board yet.[/
> 
> Still waiting on those 'guts shots' from your shiny new DSL. I'm very happy with mine now but would love to see if they've made some positive changes. Maybe they read this forum !


----------



## solarburn

bman said:


> Alright guys here is a half ass update on the new 40. Three different preamp tubes in this one and my older DSL housed the same pre tubes in all 4 positions. V1 and v2 are both numbered the same and have red Marshall logo. V3 has a different number and still red logo. V4 has white Marshall logo and yet a different number. I have not had the time to open the board yet.



I wonder if the power tubes are different?

Be cool to see some gut shots to compare.

Is the speaker still a 70/80?


----------



## J.LaGrassa

My Speaker (70/80) really must be breaking in I noticed i can use the EQ with wider adjustment range with good results, On the OD channel I just use Lead 1 at around 6 on the gain knob. What i noticed today is i put the Treble at 5 mids around 4 but starting to sound nice anywhere between 4-7 Bass around 7 Presence at 5 and Resonance at 5 I also noticed the Speaker not flubbing out that bad with the Bass and resonance set higher, this is a good sign.
I will probably still try some speakers at some point but the 70/80 is not as bad as some say it is, it's working for me so that's all that matters.


----------



## bman

Yes its still a 70/80 and same power tubes. Speaker wire is shorter,its tight with no slack. I hate to take it completely apart but i'll try to get some shots of the board for you guys this weekend.


----------



## solarburn

bman said:


> Yes its still a 70/80 and same power tubes. Speaker wire is shorter,its tight with no slack. I hate to take it completely apart but i'll try to get some shots of the board for you guys this weekend.



Play that thing. If you get around to it do gut shots. If not don't worry bout it. Have some fun.

I can't unplug my speaker wire from the 16ohm tap without taking the back off or at least move it away a bit. Any less slack and it would be too short. Course I could unhook it from where its screwed in to cab for more slack...


----------



## J.LaGrassa

bman said:


> Yes its still a 70/80 and same power tubes. Speaker wire is shorter,its tight with no slack. I hate to take it completely apart but i'll try to get some shots of the board for you guys this weekend.



The Chassis comes out easy but it a little bit of a pain getting it back in and getting the holes lined up, I'm thinking maybe its just a tube difference your hearing. I'm going to try my JJ ECC83S tubes in the preamp section, I have a couple of pairs of Svetlana Wing C EL34 power tubes I probably bought 10 years ago when I had my DSL-50 but not sure I feel like taking the chassis out again to re bias if needed. I have a Weber Bias probe i could try with the power tubes I can chack the Plate voltage as well as current with out taking the amp apart.

I wish they made the Bias adjustment external it would be so much easier!


----------



## dave999z

Would like to see whether Marshall is still using the same cap for C19.

Doubt they'd change it, but it'd be interesting to check.


----------



## Duffy49

bman said:


> Me too! Leaving my tung-sol and JJ tubes in the closet for quality spares. Marshall has changed something for sure IMO! Btw, when I contacted them direct they said they felt the 70/80 speaker was the best fit for this amp. It was designed for this particular amp. Complete stock for me for now.



My 40c is also completely stock. I like the way it sounds. I do, however, have two Eminence "Swamp Thangs" in my 212 new Avatar "Vintage" cab that I'm using with my DSL400H head. These speakers sound fantastic. I need to hook the cab up to the 40c and try it out. That might change my perspective on the Seventy/80; but I like the Seventy/80 and have some in a couple other amps. The dude that owns the Avatar company told me that the Seventy/80 speakers are very good speakers and also very affordable; but he agreed that the Swamp Thangs would sound really good in the cab he made for me.

You might consider a Swamp Thang in your 40c.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Duffy49 said:


> My 40c is also completely stock. I like the way it sounds. I do, however, have two Eminence "Swamp Thangs" in my 212 new Avatar "Vintage" cab that I'm using with my DSL400H head. These speakers sound fantastic. I need to hook the cab up to the 40c and try it out. That might change my perspective on the Seventy/80; but I like the Seventy/80 and have some in a couple other amps. The dude that owns the Avatar company told me that the Seventy/80 speakers are very good speakers and also very affordable; but he agreed that the Swamp Thangs would sound really good in the cab he made for me.
> 
> You might consider a Swamp Thang in your 40c.




Every time I think I want to try a different speaker or tubes I change my mind after every time I play the amp, it keeps sounding better each day I crank it.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Well finally installed some JJ ECC83S I had around I got these frome Eurotubes about 6 months ago so they are not that old, I replaced all 4 preamp tubes. The amp still sounds 99% the same although when i reinstalled the Marshall preamp tubes 90067 the amp sounded like it had just a tad more treble not much it just stuck out more.

Snapped a picture of the 2 preamp tubes and they looked the same only difference is the JJ tube has grey plates where the Marshall was silver or un finished.

JJ on the left marshall on the right


----------



## solarburn

J.LaGrassa said:


> Well finally installed some JJ ECC83S I had around I got these frome Eurotubes about 6 months ago so they are not that old, I replaced all 4 preamp tubes. The amp still sounds 99% the same although when i reinstalled the Marshall preamp tubes 90067 the amp sounded like it had just a tad more treble not much it just stuck out more.
> 
> Snapped a picture of the 2 preamp tubes and they looked the same only difference is the JJ tube has grey plates where the Marshall was silver or un finished.
> 
> JJ on the left marshall on the right



I hear the same. More top end with the stock tubes.


----------



## Micky

Duffy49 said:


> You might consider a Swamp Thang in your 40c.



I ran a ST in mine for a while and loved it.
I also have a 4X12 loaded with them.
I settled on an Eminence Man-O-War...


----------



## solarburn

Last 2 days I noticed mine getting trebley. Checked bias and went through the preamp tubes and I can't get it back to where it was sounding. Its like thinner sounding. This is going to make me not want to play it...


----------



## USAPatriot

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Last 2 days I noticed mine getting trebley. Checked bias and went through the preamp tubes and I can't get it back to where it was sounding. Its like thinner sounding. This is going to make me not want to play it...



I can't "like" your post cuz I don't like what it says, but I can appreciate it. I turned my gain up to 6 last night on Red2 and it was middy-hell. I hated it. I turned it back down and I still hated it, like an echo of the bad shit was still there. I've noticed that like computers, sometimes you just gotta reboot. I've seen this before in the 40C but no other amp I've had. I'll bet tonight when I turn it on it'll be back to normal. Pull the plug and then retry. Maybe you'll get lucky. And check the guitar knobs and the buttons, including the Triode/Pentode switch  -Rod-


----------



## J.LaGrassa

I put my JJ ECC83S back in all 4 preamp slots and tried it out with my band, these are definitely a bit different than the stock Marshall 90067. The JJ tubes had a deeper tone and little less bright but still plenty of chime and tight bass and solid mids I like them they sound great in a band mix I think I will get a pair of JJ EL34 or JJE34L to try as well.


----------



## Duffy49

Micky said:


> I ran a ST in mine for a while and loved it.
> I also have a 4X12 loaded with them.
> I settled on an Eminence Man-O-War...



Since I have that remarkably awesome sounding two twelve Avatar "Vintage" cabinet, black with gold piping and black "Avatar" lettering, I'm thinking of putting an eight ohm "Man 'O War" in my Epiphone V Jr one twelve extension cabinet. This black with gold piping cab with black grill cloth looks very awesome and reminiscent of some of the old cabs from days gone by. The Man 'O War should be very versatile in that Epi V Jr one twelve extension cab and should also work well when used with my Vox AC15c and Fender amps.

I can't under-emphasize how great the sound is out of the Swamp Thangs though. This cab really adds a lot of great sounding woody sustain and across the spectrum clarity to the sound of my DSL100H, compared to how my Epiphone four twelve "So. Cal." cabinet sounded. It is a high quality cabinet made of high grade ply wood and I want to install two or four really good speakers into it. I have it close at hand and would really like to start wiring in some great speakers into that cab.

I had been thinking of wiring in one of those Electro Voice twelve inch two hundred watt guitar speakers into the one twelve Epi V Jr. cab as another alternative. It should be able to handle anything I can throw at it. I wonder how the Electro Voice three hundred watt Zack Wylde version of that same speaker would sound. The two Electro Voice speakers are about the same price, one just handles one hundred more watts. Anyone know about this comparison and if it would sound good with a new style DSL amp? Or is the Zack Wylde just mainly a heavy metal version of the speaker?


----------



## MarshallDog

J.LaGrassa said:


> I put my JJ ECC83S back in all 4 preamp slots and tried it out with my band, these are definitely a bit different than the stock Marshall 90067. The JJ tubes had a deeper tone and little less bright but still plenty of chime and tight bass and solid mids I like them they sound great in a band mix I think I will get a pair of JJ EL34 or JJE34L to try as well.



Yup, I love JJ 12AX&'s and E34L's in my 40C...just great sounding tubes


----------



## J.LaGrassa

MarshallDog said:


> Yup, I love JJ 12AX&'s and E34L's in my 40C...just great sounding tubes



I will probably get a pair of E34L soon!


----------



## guitarman8

Yeah I just got this amp and use strats mainly and found it so high on treble even with no treble turned up on the treble pot. I also find it very bassey. I set it up with middle half up treble on zero and bass on 2. Not that happy right now, seems ok when I do my Beck finger style which mellows things out. Allot more discoverys to learn about this amp. Oh the effects loop works great with a good lexicon it's a good fit. With this treble thing notes seem thin also you have to really turn it up to get the right tones. Low volume playing isn't so great. It's still a keeper I may even dump my JCM800 combo which is a little thin also but ok at low volumes. This new amp does have a nice color to it's tones reminds me of my very first Marshall Super Lead Stack from the 60's. Kind of a elastic type bend tubular tone to the notes.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

guitarman8 said:


> Yeah I just got this amp and use strats mainly and found it so high on treble even with no treble turned up on the treble pot. I also find it very bassey. I set it up with middle half up treble on zero and bass on 2. Not that happy right now, seems ok when I do my Beck finger style which mellows things out. Allot more discoverys to learn about this amp. Oh the effects loop works great with a good lexicon it's a good fit. With this treble thing notes seem thin also you have to really turn it up to get the right tones. Low volume playing isn't so great. It's still a keeper I may even dump my JCM800 combo which is a little thin also but ok at low volumes. This new amp does have a nice color to it's tones reminds me of my very first Marshall Super Lead Stack from the 60's. Kind of a elastic type bend tubular tone to the notes.


Congrats on the new amp!

The harshness should dwindle as time goes on you have to let the speaker break in, I use humbuckers so its not as bad as single coils. I initially had my treble on 3 but after a week of playing this amp at volume I noticed the speaker changing, I can now set my treble to 5 and presence on 5 and it sounds fine the bass also does not flub out on me i can add plenty of fullness with the resonance.

I just changed out the preamp tubes with JJ ECC83S and that took away some of the harshness as well while adding a tad more fullness to the tone, play the amp for a couple of weeks before making any changes.


----------



## cruisemates

Hi - I just found this thread - sorry for double post but I will be checking both.

DSL40C working perfectly until I push in the effects switch - then I get about an 80% volume drop.

Now, it only happens after the amp warms up. And at first I could "tap" the top of the amp and the full volume would return. Well, tapping doesn't work anymore and I KNOW it is related to the effects loop now (it only happens when I turn the effects loop button to "on")

Is there a singular tube that runs this loop or some other weak link? I would open it up but I can't find a schematic for these. Anyone know where to find one?

FYI: this happens whether I have things plugged in, or nothing plugged the loop. It happens when I jumper the loop. No matter what, if the switch is on the volume is gone.

Thanks for any advice


----------



## Roger Tyria

Cruise,
The Loop circuit consists of (2) OP amp buffers (1) in and (1) out.
Try this: With the amp on and warmed up and you are experiencing the volume drop. With the room as quiet as possible push the switch in and out. See if you hear a relay clicking in and out when you push the switch. In the FX circuit is a relay contact RL3 that takes the output of the input OP amp buffer to ground. If this relay is not opening up that could be the cause of the drastic drop in volume?


----------



## guitarman8

J.LaGrassa said:


> Congrats on the new amp!
> 
> The harshness should dwindle as time goes on you have to let the speaker break in, I use humbuckers so its not as bad as single coils. I initially had my treble on 3 but after a week of playing this amp at volume I noticed the speaker changing, I can now set my treble to 5 and presence on 5 and it sounds fine the bass also does not flub out on me i can add plenty of fullness with the resonance.
> 
> I just changed out the preamp tubes with JJ ECC83S and that took away some of the harshness as well while adding a tad more fullness to the tone, play the amp for a couple of weeks before making any changes.



Things are getting better, with strats you really need the lexicon to space things out. I'm getting good sound with the clean crunch cannel and the channel 2 red 1 channel. I used my Les paul today and it's good right off the bat, the Les pauls need the clean brightness which Is why I started with the Super Lead back then, the DSL40c opens up the two pickup les paul tone nicely.
I like the DSL40c and see along run ahead with it.


----------



## cruisemates

Re: Effects volume drop ---

Got thr chassis open, turned off all volume & definitely hear a LOUD "pop" (I assume relay) when I let the switch out, so I assume it working. I am guessing those CaA&B mean to molex connectors so I will clean those now. (Think I see that in there)

FIXED!!!

The entire 2"-square PCB that connected to the EFX pcb by the blue cable and 5-point molex (the raised PCB seen in the pic as the square with one big IC next to a smaller IC and a row of posts down the lefthand column) - all those posts had come out and that PCB was just hanging from the other side, barely touching their contacts. (middle bottom below), I just reseated it and so far so good.


----------



## Micky

That is the reverb board.

Glad you got it sorted out!


----------



## Pasloade74

Does anyone have any experience with using an Eminence Cannabis Rex or Private Jack with this amp? I'm still looking for a speaker that will smooth it out. If the Celestion Creamback wasn't so expensive I'd give it a try. I'm hoping for a cheaper alternative. 

I've been using a Vintage 30 and I'm ready to try something different. Its been to harsh for the music my bands been playing lately. I also have a Wizard that I'm gonna try for our next rehearsal but I'm guessing it be similar to the V30. 

Thanks


----------



## rpinon69

Hello All

I have been enjoying this amp since my last post the day I received it, but today I noticed a clicking sound when I turned it on. Are those the power tubes it may have been doing this since I received it but I just haven't noticed I am not sure. I usually turn it on leave it on standby while I get everything connected get something to drink etc.... before I sit down and start playing.

The amp plays sounds great I haven't noticed any change in tone it just when I turn it on.

Can anyone confirm this with their amp? Should I be concerned?

Thanks


----------



## MarshallDog

rpinon69 said:


> Hello All
> 
> I have been enjoying this amp since my last post the day I received it, but today I noticed a clicking sound when I turned it on. Are those the power tubes it may have been doing this since I received it but I just haven't noticed I am not sure. I usually turn it on leave it on standby while I get everything connected get something to drink etc.... before I sit down and start playing.
> 
> The amp plays sounds great I haven't noticed any change in tone it just when I turn it on.
> 
> Can anyone confirm this with their amp? Should I be concerned?
> 
> Thanks



Is it clicking or more like a series of various popping and cracking sounds that go away after it is fully warmed up? If it is more like what I describe, it may be the tubes, I had this happen to me and after changing tubes it went away.


----------



## rpinon69

It only happens when I flip the power switch on I hear the click and when I turn it off I hear it.


----------



## dave999z

Pasloade74 said:


> Does anyone have any experience with using an Eminence Cannabis Rex or Private Jack with this amp? I'm still looking for a speaker that will smooth it out. If the Celestion Creamback wasn't so expensive I'd give it a try. I'm hoping for a cheaper alternative.
> 
> I've been using a Vintage 30 and I'm ready to try something different. Its been to harsh for the music my bands been playing lately. I also have a Wizard that I'm gonna try for our next rehearsal but I'm guessing it be similar to the V30.
> 
> Thanks



I'm loving my WGS Invader in mine. I believe that's their speaker that corresponds with a Creamback, although I think the Invader came out first???


----------



## J.LaGrassa

cruisemates said:


> Re: Effects volume drop ---
> 
> Got thr chassis open, turned off all volume & definitely hear a LOUD "pop" (I assume relay) when I let the switch out, so I assume it working. I am guessing those CaA&B mean to molex connectors so I will clean those now. (Think I see that in there)
> 
> FIXED!!!
> 
> The entire 2"-square PCB that connected to the EFX pcb by the blue cable and 5-point molex (the raised PCB seen in the pic as the square with one big IC next to a smaller IC and a row of posts down the lefthand column) - all those posts had come out and that PCB was just hanging from the other side, barely touching their contacts. (middle bottom below), I just reseated it and so far so good.



Glad you got it fixed, now you can get back to rocking out


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Pasloade74 said:


> Does anyone have any experience with using an Eminence Cannabis Rex or Private Jack with this amp? I'm still looking for a speaker that will smooth it out. If the Celestion Creamback wasn't so expensive I'd give it a try. I'm hoping for a cheaper alternative.
> 
> I've been using a Vintage 30 and I'm ready to try something different. Its been to harsh for the music my bands been playing lately. I also have a Wizard that I'm gonna try for our next rehearsal but I'm guessing it be similar to the V30.
> 
> Thanks



Check out the Warehouse guitar speaker Invader, its a 50W Greenback and very affordable. I haven't tried it personally but its on my list to try.


----------



## cruisemates

By the way, I love the amp, too. I put in a Hellatone Vintage 30 (that is just a broken in Celestion V-30 Re-branded by Avatar) but I think a lot of speakers would work in it. 

It depends on your guitar and what tone you like, but for ME I had to change out the stock speaker and it was the single thing that made the biggest difference.

I am pretty sure those stock 70/80s are neodymium, like the new speakers they put in the cheap $200 2x12 cabinets Marshall has out now. They are nice and light but they sound very thin, especially on Strats.


----------



## Roger Tyria

rpinon69 said:


> It only happens when I flip the power switch on I hear the click and when I turn it off I hear it.


From what your saying it sounds like your hearing the control circuit relays operating. This is normal and not a problem.
Try pushing the FX loop sw in and out and you will likely hear the same noise. There are several small relays on the circuit board to make different control connections.


----------



## Micky

rpinon69 said:


> It only happens when I flip the power switch on I hear the click and when I turn it off I hear it.



It is the relays inside the amp. Normal operation.


----------



## Micky

I know this thread is long, and only a dedicated or insane member here will read the whole thing if they didn't get in on the start, but there is an INCREDIBLE amount of speaker swap info here. It is probably the most-often swapped component, probably even more so than tubes.

Many users are swapping for Eminence and WGS speakers, and loving the reslult!


----------



## rpinon69

Micky said:


> It is the relays inside the amp. Normal operation.



Thanks Micky

It's just strange that I don't recall it doing that before, but with that said it's been a while since I've had a tube amp.

I hope I don't get lynched for saying but been using Line 6 Pods for direct recording but man tubes sound lovely!


----------



## mickeydg5

Relays are not always used for switching in amplifiers. Some relays make more noise than others. I think what you hear is bounce caused by amplifier circuit and relay changing state at turn ON and turn OFF.

As long as it is not a noise through the speaker during play it is all good.


----------



## Micky

Like Mickey says, turning on an amp may force a relay to change state, but it generally it will tend to return to its resting or default state with no power applied. Latching relays operate differently, in the fact that they remain in the state they have been switched to when power is removed. 

The footswitch can sometimes operate relays, and it is difficult to determine the default state for a relay. You can try to switch everything to its default state, but that defeats the purpose of having switches doesn't it? And yeah, most line6 stuff sux.


----------



## rpinon69

mickeydg5 said:


> Relays are not always used for switching in amplifiers. Some relays make more noise than others. I think what you hear is bounce caused by amplifier circuit and relay changing state at turn ON and turn OFF.
> 
> As long as it is not a noise through the speaker during play it is all good.


I noticed this late last night from what I could tell all was good while playing but I get home and jam for few hours see whats up

Thanks Mickey

Have to make sure I have all my Micks straight!


----------



## bman

Man mickey I know...However if you give the 70/80 a few weeks to break in its pretty bad ass. If you personally know of a much better speaker please let me know! Simple changes in sound are very personal and not worth doing. If you know of a speaker that makes a big difference in tone we all want to know.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

My 70/80 is sounding quite good, so far all I have done was replace all the preamp tubes with JJ ECC83S I got from Eurotubes there less edgy and sound a bit thicker.


----------



## bman

The DSL 40 is the best combo Marshall has put out in a decade! We can only hope for a hot rodded JCM800 two channel in the near 
future.


----------



## bman

Yea i replaced my v1 and v2 with Tung-Sol and they to sound a bit thicker. However, a little bit of that mid-range snarl disappeared. Cant seem to find the best tube solution for this amp.


----------



## cruisemates

bman said:


> Yea i replaced my v1 and v2 with Tung-Sol and they to sound a bit thicker. However, a little bit of that mid-range snarl disappeared. Cant seem to find the best tube solution for this amp.



I am interested in those WGS now (the g12-65 style ones - what were they called? invaders or something?)

The Celestion g12-65 is a nice smooth sounding speaker with clear top end but (IMO) not so much low end.

For this amp I personally feel you need something with more low end and something to tame the brightness a little bit. The G12-65 has "sweet" highs, so that could work, but I tend to lean to V30 or maybe a G12-75.


----------



## rpinon69

Micky said:


> Like Mickey says, turning on an amp may force a relay to change state, but it generally it will tend to return to its resting or default state with no power applied. Latching relays operate differently, in the fact that they remain in the state they have been switched to when power is removed.
> 
> The footswitch can sometimes operate relays, and it is difficult to determine the default state for a relay. You can try to switch everything to its default state, but that defeats the purpose of having switches doesn't it? And yeah, most line6 stuff sux.



Well I will take your all's word on the role the relay's play in a tube amp design but I do agree I'm digging the tones much more than my line 6 gear. Now I need an isolation room or cab to mike this bad boy and record some tracks.


----------



## USAPatriot

bman said:


> Yea i replaced my v1 and v2 with Tung-Sol and they to sound a bit thicker. However, a little bit of that mid-range snarl disappeared. Cant seem to find the best tube solution for this amp.



Changing things isn't always good, yet people seem to do just that as soon as they get a new amp. I have my own new problem. I've found that I've lost the tone I had with the old set of tubes, which was quite good when I ignored the microphonics. A whole bunch of new material was made with that tone, which was a throaty, punchy, slightly southern and rather sensitive, and with the new tubes I'm not even in the ballpark. The old power tubes were absolutely microphonic but I don't see them changing my tone that much. Of the 4 preamp tubes, V1 and V4 seemed to still be okay but I changed them out anyway. I think I need to put the old ones back in and hope that it at least gets me part way back to where I was. Microphonic tubes tend to have their own tone, besides the microphonics...harmonics in there that we can't get otherwise.
I save everything, even bad tubes, labeled in little baggies, I document everything and you should too, if you aren't already. If you want that snarl back you can get it. -Rod-


----------



## Micky

cruisemates said:


> I am interested in those WGS now (the g12-65 style ones - what were they called? invaders or something?)
> 
> The Celestion g12-65 is a nice smooth sounding speaker with clear top end but (IMO) not so much low end.
> 
> For this amp I personally feel you need something with more low end and something to tame the brightness a little bit. The G12-65 has "sweet" highs, so that could work, but I tend to lean to V30 or maybe a G12-75.



The Man-O-War is the G12-75 equivalent, and I can't say enough good about it. Marty runs them in his TSL, and I feel they have enough bass but yet still maintain the mid clarity you need with this amp. Try one if you can...


----------



## solarburn

USAPatriot said:


> I can't "like" your post cuz I don't like what it says, but I can appreciate it. I turned my gain up to 6 last night on Red2 and it was middy-hell. I hated it. I turned it back down and I still hated it, like an echo of the bad shit was still there. I've noticed that like computers, sometimes you just gotta reboot. I've seen this before in the 40C but no other amp I've had. I'll bet tonight when I turn it on it'll be back to normal. Pull the plug and then retry. Maybe you'll get lucky. And check the guitar knobs and the buttons, including the Triode/Pentode switch  -Rod-



I'm going to pop my other power tubes in and see what happens. Maybe I wore one down pretty good on 20 watts and I'm getting a less than tone. I had been running the amp at 11am volume wise regularly. I have the worst luck with tube amps diminishing. I thought it might be my voltage in the house but it's running 120v after checking. I also wonder if my 412 cab or the speaker wire is funky and it effects the amp. I've measured them and they seem fine...I did run mine into my 412 cab recently and it seems the change happened while I did that. The amp had been fine until I ran it through another cab but it could be coincidence. I can't pin shit down and I'm only able to check minor things...like tubes.

So I am left feeling like I'm crazy or my ears are going in and out significantly.


----------



## USAPatriot

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I'm going to pop my other power tubes in and see what happens. Maybe I wore one down pretty good on 20 watts and I'm getting a less than tone. I had been running the amp at 11am volume wise regularly. I have the worst luck with tube amps diminishing. I thought it might be my voltage in the house but it's running 120v after checking. I also wonder if my 412 cab or the speaker wire is funky and it effects the amp. I've measured them and they seem fine...I did run mine into my 412 cab recently and it seems the change happened while I did that. The amp had been fine until I ran it through another cab but it could be coincidence. I can't pin shit down and I'm only able to check minor things...like tubes.
> 
> So I am left feeling like I'm crazy or my ears are going in and out significantly.



It could be any or all of the above, including ears. My own have been ringing and hissing for 25-30 years. I blame Ted Nugent, ZZ Top and guns 
Medications can cause alterations in your hearing as can changes in the weather, allergies and just getting old. A few times I thought my 40C was fading a bit too but each time I suspected it was me maybe muting the strings accidentally, not the amp fading out, but time will tell.

Hey, a question! I noticed that I can hear the glass on these new power tubes (I assume it's them and not the preamp tubes) making a "tink"ing sound when I let the amp idle for a few seconds, as in walking up to it to tweak something. I've never heard this in the past, in this amp or any other. Maybe I've just not noticed it before or maybe the tubes have a problem. No sound like this through the speakers, and the amp sounds fine...just an irregular "tink tink" from the back of the amp when I'm not playing. Thoughts? -Rod-


----------



## solarburn

Damn Rod I just wrote down a bunch of stuff and my phone crashed. Lost it all. 

Tap around the base of the tubes on the chassis. See if any mf's happen.

My original V1 tube pops a bit but not enuff to bother me. Jus a lil here and there. If its.not tube related is there something loose somewhere that vibration may effect?

I wonder if the glass is sounding off from heat?


----------



## Swede

Hi guys....I introduced myself yesterday at the intro sub forum......I guess this thread is partially why I joined up. 
I recently got a DSL40C and from initially not liking it at all, it grows on me daily, probably from speaker break in and getting to use to the tone overall. I have a 1973 Fender Pro reverb 40 watt that sounds KILLER, but obviously a different tonality all together.
I ordered and should receive a WGS Invader today, as Im a big fan of the WGS line.......I had a Classic 30 with a WGS ET65, a My Fender has 2 WGS G12C/S......and now the Invader.....ive made it to page 35 of this thread.


----------



## USAPatriot

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Damn Rod I just wrote down a bunch of stuff and my phone crashed. Lost it all.
> 
> Tap around the base of the tubes on the chassis. See if any mf's happen.
> 
> My original V1 tube pops a bit but not enuff to bother me. Jus a lil here and there. If its.not tube related is there something loose somewhere that vibration may effect?
> 
> I wonder if the glass is sounding off from heat?



The heat is what I think might be going on, yet I've never heard it before and you'd think the glass would stabilize after some time, like an hour of playing, and the sound would stop, yet it's all the time, just irregular. I'll pull the back off this afternoon and see if I can narrow it to a specific tube, do some tapping, etc. It kinda reminds me of the sound a hot engine makes when you shut it off. Thanks. -Rod-


----------



## USAPatriot

Swede said:


> Hi guys....I introduced myself yesterday at the intro sub forum......I guess this thread is partially why I joined up.
> I recently got a DSL40C and from initially not liking it at all, it grows on me daily, probably from speaker break in and getting to use to the tone overall. I have a 1973 Fender Pro reverb 40 watt that sounds KILLER, but obviously a different tonality all together.
> I ordered and should receive a WGS Invader today, as Im a big fan of the WGS line.......I had a Classic 30 with a WGS ET65, a My Fender has 2 WGS G12C/S......and now the Invader.....ive made it to page 35 of this thread.



By the time I read through the entire thread, I'd forgotten 90% of it already  -Rod-


----------



## Swede

USAPatriot said:


> By the time I read through the entire thread, I'd forgotten 90% of it already  -Rod-



I hear you buddy....It becomes a blur

So far ive gathered

c-19 mod

New speaker

and some other things.....
Installing my Invader as I type.


----------



## Swede

WOW......Just got the WGS Invader 50 watt speaker installed....Talk about difference......Jeeeeez!

Only running it with my strats right now, since both of my Pauls are on the bench. Single coil change was for the better BIG time.

Hoping the same will apply with the buckers.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Swede said:


> WOW......Just got the WGS Invader 50 watt speaker installed....Talk about difference......Jeeeeez!
> 
> Only running it with my strats right now, since both of my Pauls are on the bench. Single coil change was for the better BIG time.
> 
> Hoping the same will apply with the buckers.



Glad to hear you like the Invader, It's on my list of speakers to try. Oh and welcome to the DSL40 club I just grabbed one a couple of weeks ago, great sounding amp.


----------



## Swede

J.LaGrassa said:


> Glad to hear you like the Invader, It's on my list of speakers to try. Oh and welcome to the DSL40 club I just grabbed one a couple of weeks ago, great sounding amp.



I have never been disappointed with any WGS speaker. The et65 in my peavey classic 30 made that 100% better, the GC12C/s in my old Fender made it MORE Fendery....

And this Invader certainly made it soo much better already.

Disclaimer: I have not yet tried it with buckers or cranked it....So I reserve my right to change my mind


----------



## Pasloade74

Swede said:


> I have never been disappointed with any WGS speaker. The et65 in my peavey classic 30 made that 100% better, the GC12C/s in my old Fender made it MORE Fendery....
> 
> And this Invader certainly made it soo much better already.
> 
> Disclaimer: I have not yet tried it with buckers or cranked it....So I reserve my right to change my mind



Let us know, especially with a Les Paul. I'm on the hunt for a new speaker to smooth everything out. I just swapped out my V30 with an Eminence Wizard. So far so good, but I really want to see how it cuts through at band practice tomorrow. The Invader seems like a popular choice. I'm also thinking about an Eminence Private Jack.


----------



## Swede

Pasloade74 said:


> Let us know, especially with a Les Paul. I'm on the hunt for a new speaker to smooth everything out. I just swapped out my V30 with an Eminence Wizard. So far so good, but I really want to see how it cuts through at band practice tomorrow. The Invader seems like a popular choice. I'm also thinking about an Eminence Private Jack.



I will certainly let you know. It'll be awhile before i get my Pauls back together. Besides speaker change I also had 3 NOS tubes laying around. Put a RCA blackpate in V1, RCA greyplate in V2 and a Mullard (copy) bought from Aspen Pittman himsef in V3....V4 has the original still in it.

Would it be better to put one of those 3 tubes in the P.I instead, leaving the Marshall one in V2 or V3?


----------



## bman

Just put my stock tubes back in. Happy with this at the moment. Not quite as thick sounding as the tung-sol tubes but very defined and I got my snarl back! On the 2014 dsl40's stock seems to be a good thing. Only thing i might change is having a 2x12 or even 4x12 extension cab when money permits.


----------



## USAPatriot

bman said:


> Just put my stock tubes back in. Happy with this at the moment. Not quite as thick sounding as the tung-sol tubes but very defined and I got my snarl back! On the 2014 dsl40's stock seems to be a good thing. Only thing i might change is having a 2x12 or even 4x12 extension cab when money permits.



Wtg Bman. I put my original V1 back in for starters and saw some improvement but it's still too middy and on my current settings it shouldn't be. Tomorrow I'll try V4 back in there and then maybe try my Tungsols in V2/3 if it still needs help. Or maybe I'll also try one of my China's in V4...or that AT7? Time will tell  Enjoy your snarl! -Rod-


----------



## USAPatriot

Re-reading my bias notes, I see that when I initially measured the voltage at pin 3, I got 469V at V5 and 468V at V6. The bias at Con5 was measured at 36.9mv on the right side (left pot) and 39.5mv on the left side (right pot). The tubes were Marshall's VLVE-00092.

When I put the VLVE-00101's in and remeasured the voltage at pin 3, I got 460 and 462V...though I did not notate which tube gave which voltage. At 462V, my bias should be 37.8mv. I biased them at 37.2 on the left and 37.5 on the right.

The amp sounds okay but it's lost the punch it had, relative to my current settings, versus the old set, which IYR, were also microphonic.

There's also the matter of the "tink tink" sound coming from the tubes when the amp is idling. It's pretty much the same sound you'd expect to hear when you've shut your amp down as the tubes cool, yet this is going on while the tubes are still hot, and that just doesn't sound right to me. 

I've contacted Marshall and am awaiting a reply back even though I'm not sure there's anything wrong. I've never seen the voltage change just because I changed tubes since that's a function of the transformer and not the glass so far as I know. I've sure never heard any sort of noise from a tube before unless it was melting down. Neither is red plating or looks abnormal while I play...I turned the amp around this evening and watched for awhile. And my thoughts keep going back to the wiring differences between 00092 and 00101. I also asked Kevin if he heard back from Marshall UK on that question too and am waiting for a reply.

Any thoughts? Tomorrow, since I have nothing else to do, I may just put the 00092's back in and see if the voltage goes back to 469/468. I should just rack mount the whole chassis so I don't have to keep taking it apart  

Hope ev1 is enjoying their Friday night! -Rod-


----------



## solarburn

I just popped my 34L's in and biased up to 36.5mv. I noticed when I switched to half power the bias changed to 37.5...checked this a few times same result.

Mine is still running too much treble and rolling guitar volume down accentuates it. My treble on both sets of power tubes has gone from 4 to 2.5 on the knob. Bass from noon to 1pm.

Think I'm gonna warranty this lil phucker. Sounded excellent for a few months. Not good enuff time period for me. I want years not a couple of months.

Sorry guys I'm irritated. Glad yours are running good.

I know Rod feels me. Wish I could help bud.


----------



## Swede

Makes me worried to read things like that Solar....

What gives folks?


----------



## USAPatriot

I forgot that I had these and found them in a box with assorted other electronic stuff, not in my tubes box. IIRC, they came out of my Blackstar HT-40. I may have to give them a try. Does anyone know what the number "3" designates? My Marshall VLVE-00101's have the number "2" on them and also have the little TAD sticker on them. I also note that the internal wiring is very nearly identical to the 00101's as well, the only difference being a tiny loop of wire between the very tiny pair of wires in the bottom/center of the tube between the two sets of internal pins. My 00101's don't have that loop. -Rod-


----------



## USAPatriot

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I just popped my 34L's in and biased up to 36.5mv. I noticed when I switched to half power the bias changed to 37.5...checked this a few times same result.
> 
> Mine is still running too much treble and rolling guitar volume down accentuates it. My treble on both sets of power tubes has gone from 4 to 2.5 on the knob. Bass from noon to 1pm.
> 
> Think I'm gonna warranty this lil phucker. Sounded excellent for a few months. Not good enuff time period for me. I want years not a couple of months.
> 
> Sorry guys I'm irritated. Glad yours are running good.
> 
> I know Rod feels me. Wish I could help bud.



Yeah, I feel it, alright, but thanks for the reminder...I really need to check for differences between the 20 and 40w modes. I meant to when I retubed and spaced it out, as usual. Depending on what Kevin has to say to me, I may warranty mine as well. Trouble is, the nearest authorized Marshall tech is 3 hours away from me. I could send it back...though I'm not sure to whom since the ZZound's part of it has expired...but the box was destroyed in shipping, totally thrashed, so I pitched it. Last one I sent back had the same issue and ZZounds paid me back for the reboxing at UPS, which was cool. Dunno if Marshall will be so kind. But, maybe the TAD's will work out for me, though I wasn't that fond of them in the HT-40, which is why I took them out. The HT-40 was definitely less sterile sounding when I put the Tungsols in. Anyway, onwards and upwards, right? GL with yours, Solarburn. -Rod-


----------



## J.LaGrassa

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I just popped my 34L's in and biased up to 36.5mv. I noticed when I switched to half power the bias changed to 37.5...checked this a few times same result.
> 
> Mine is still running too much treble and rolling guitar volume down accentuates it. My treble on both sets of power tubes has gone from 4 to 2.5 on the knob. Bass from noon to 1pm.
> 
> Think I'm gonna warranty this lil phucker. Sounded excellent for a few months. Not good enuff time period for me. I want years not a couple of months.
> 
> Sorry guys I'm irritated. Glad yours are running good.
> 
> I know Rod feels me. Wish I could help bud.



What are you using for preamp tubes? I have all JJ ECC83S in mine and it took a bit of the edge off but still cuts great. Your guitar and pickups can be more of the culprit for too much treble, I had a Les Paul that was very bright and always struggled with that guitar I'm glad I got rid of it. My PRS McCarty is the oposite its nice and chunky and darker sounding... maybe thats why it doesnt sound so trebly with the DSL40.


----------



## solarburn

J.LaGrassa said:


> What are you using for preamp tubes? I have all JJ ECC83S in mine and it took a bit of the edge off but still cuts great. Your guitar and pickups can be more of the culprit for too much treble, I had a Les Paul that was very bright and always struggled with that guitar I'm glad I got rid of it. My PRS McCarty is the oposite its nice and chunky and darker sounding... maybe thats why it doesnt sound so trebly with the DSL40.



Well I've been using the same 2 guitars since I've had the amp Ann's both sounded great. II settled on an AC7HG+ & AC5HG+ for V1&V2. The other 2 slots stayed stock.

Thing is like I said earlier I went through the preamp stage with other good tubes to check if for weak or bad one's. Didn't help. I even used darker tubes but it really just dulled it. It seems like it thinned out and solo notes are a bit underwhelming. Especially when I roll off guitar volume. Really hear it thinning out quick. That didn't happen before.

I'm playing straight in now too to eliminate the pedal chain and cables.

My guitar pups are DiMarzio Super Distortions. Not trebley at all.I have been running mine h


----------



## solarburn

Meant to say been running mine loud at about 11am.

My phone won't let me finish my above post.

Between my phone and amp something gonna get smashed.


----------



## gibguy

Hi Solar. Sometimes. It turns out to be an easy cheesy fix. Couple weeks ago my amp was doing almost exactly as you describe. Thin as in lack of bass and trend sounded just nasty. Turned out to be the line in Jack on my compressor pedal. Cleaned it out good and back to new. I know you tried straight in without results but maybe its your cable or line in jack?


----------



## solarburn

gibguy said:


> Hi Solar. Sometimes. It turns out to be an easy cheesy fix. Couple weeks ago my amp was doing almost exactly as you describe. Thin as in lack of bass and trend sounded just nasty. Turned out to be the line in Jack on my compressor pedal. Cleaned it out good and back to new. I know you tried straight in without results but maybe its your cable or line in jack?



Thanks GG. I'll test that out later. I put the stock power tubes back in cause I like them better. My daughter's are still sleeping so I'll do more trouble shooting later.

Appreciate the support. Helps me be thorough before I resort to warranty process.

Really found some great tones along the way. That's why I'm really miffed at this development.


----------



## USAPatriot

I was thinking that maybe you've got a power tube problem, but if you've changed them and it's the same, then probably not. Is it thinning out in both power modes? All the buttons set where you want them? Maybe push on and twist everything to make sure that there's nothing gumming up the works and all the pots and switches are working correctly. -Rod-


----------



## USAPatriot

Last night I was thinking that since the 40C's onboard reverb is a modular device, that maybe something else other than the reverb could exist in there. I wonder if Marshall is testing that idea with this module, possibly with plans for different modules in the future? -Rod-


----------



## guitarman8

Only have this amp a week or so I think it's breaking because it's not so harsh the treble tone on the 123 strings is rounder. Don't laugh I did a video so new buyers could hear the tone. I'm new to the no pick playing it's a little cumbersome. But that beautiful Marshall tone is there for sure, gleaming round treble with good clarity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrocPRch-5k&list=UUNAf0vsmuoY-ic719dNSxuA


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Had some time today so I tried a pair of Svetlana EL34 power tubes I probably bought these about 11 years ago when I had my DSL50, there smoother than stock a little rounder and warmer in tone. One thing I noticed is I can set the treble and presence higher if needed without getting real harsh.


----------



## USAPatriot

I COULD just cut to the chase and say that the TAD EL34B-STR's (with a "3" on the little TAD stickers) I just put into my DSL40C has turned this into the finest sounding amp I've ever owned. But that'd be too easy. This was a 90-minute job, if not 2 hours, as I was trying to answer some questions as I worked.

First thing I affirmed that the plate voltage hadn't changed since I put the VLVE-00101's in and indeed, both sockets were still sitting at 462V. And since I'd disconnected everything from the loop, I shut the loop off, something I neglected to do last time. I'm using the frame of the amp itself as a work table, so flipped the chassis, removed the Marshall tubes and put in the TADs, flipped it back over, plugged in the speaker, the power and the guitar, flipped the power switch on, waited and flipped the standby switch and then played for a few minutes. I just wanted to ensure that the tubes weren't microphonic or anything. All was well though it sounded like hell, so put the guitar up and went to work, flipping the switch over to 20W.

First I measured both sockets at pin 3 and got 457V on both. Remember the TADs are now in the sockets. Of course I wondered why the voltage should be different. I assume now that the voltage depends on what the tubes are drawing, not what the transformer is pushing.
I flipped the standby off, put the switch over to 40W and remeasured, getting 458V on each this time. I switched back to 20W and again got 457V. Interesting.
I went on to check bias and went after it every way I knew how, though there's probably some I don't know. First was the basic Con5 measurements and it looked awful at 44.6 on the left and 49.2 on the right, which explains why it sounded like hell. I again flipped the amp over to 40w and remeasured, this time getting 44.0 and 47.5 respectively.
Back to 20W. I adjusted the left down to 37.8 and the right down to 37.9 and they were stable there after 10 minutes. Over to 40W, I got 36.8 and 37.0 (L & R). I recorded those values only, and made no adjustments.
Back to 20W, I measured the voltage across R67, which is adjusted by Trim1, and saw 37.7mv and then across R68 (adjusted by Trim2) and also got 37.7mv. A note here, if you get a negative number (and bias IS a negative) that's ok, but you can also swap the probes and the number will go positive. It doesn't matter. Both sides were stable measuring across the resistors but I also noted the higher numbers versus the measurements at Con5.
I again checked plate voltage at Pin3 and got 455V on V5 and 455V on V6, down from where I started but I assume it's due to the bias changes. I turned the loop on and measured bias again, getting 38.2 across R67 and 38.6 across R68.
I noticed something else...someone had mentioned the wiring of the effects loop and identified the set of blue wires that terminates above (or below, depending on how you view it) the reverb module, which is Con4A. That's not the case. The 4 blue wires and one black wire just come from the loop's on/off switch. The actual loop is two pairs of black and white wires (send and return) that terminate at Con2A, which is between and 2" below V2 and V3. Looking at the board I can't tell if the loop ends past the preamp or not. I'd need to look at the schematics, but maybe someone else knows?
I got all the work documented, put the amp back together and can't believe how good this sounds! On Red2 with the gain at 2.5 and volume at 4, I got a sweet, nice clean if I played quietly and if I leaned on it a bit got an amazing but nowhere near obnoxious snarl with every note ringing out, not buried in each other's noise and when I really hit it I got chills. I could hear and feel the whole shebang the way it should be with no part of the EQ overcoming any other part. Notes and chords seemed to sustain for as long as I cared to hold them. The treble does not seem to be overbearing though if you want treble it's definitely available. Lower pitched chords aren't being spoiled by out-of-proportion treble. The mids were transparent. No honking, even though middle is set at 5 and my MXR-108 EQ has the mids boosted just a bit. The clarity of the loop seems to have gone up exponentially, as with everything else. It's just amazing. This was definitely a very productive 2 hours, and if someone messes with my amp, I will hurt them. Badly.  -Rod-


----------



## kingbee

I had removed C19 like most people. I just changed C19 to 100pf suggested earlier in this thread. I really like this much better. So, all my changes so far are: Celestion Vintage 30 speaker, C19 value changed to 100pf, Balanced EH12AX7 in V1, Shuguang 12AX7's in all the rest (balanced in PI), Winged "C" EL34's biased at around 37 and my foot switch modded by Roger to have a red/green led for channel selection and a blue led for reverb.


----------



## Micky

USAPatriot said:


> I COULD just cut to the chase and say that the TAD EL34B-STR's (with a "3" on the little TAD stickers) I just put into my DSL40C has turned this into the finest sounding amp I've ever owned.



Tried to tell you the TAD's were awesome...


----------



## J.LaGrassa

ok so I am probably in the minority here but I just put back all the stock tubes and Re checked the bias and cranked the amp, I actually prefer this amp all stock it still sounds great.
**********************************************************************************
update:
After playing with my band on Sunday night I missed the fullness of the real JJ ECC83S I had in there, just put those back in all 4 preamp spots and i got the fuller tone. Its just a minor tweak but enough to please my ears!


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> Tried to tell you the TAD's were awesome...



Yes you did, Micky! But these came out of my old Blackstar HT-40, an amp that's pretty widely viewed as sterile sounding. It had China preamp tubes and these TAD's and no changes really made it an exceptional amp, merely acceptable, which is why I dumped it in favor of the Jet City JCA22H. The only thing I miss abut the HT-40 is the reverb. I wish the 40C had it! But, the TAD's seem to have done the trick in the 40C and am glad of that!



J.LaGrassa said:


> ok so I am probably in the minority here but I just put back all the stock tubes and Re checked the bias and cranked the amp, I actually prefer this amp all stock it still sounds great.



More people probably have the stock tubes in than not, J. Normally that's good enough, but with my tubes making weird sounds and the TAD's available, I had to try, and am glad I did. I'm pretty sure these STR's are the same tubes as the Marshall 00101's. I may have said 00092 in a previous post but I have a 00092 in my hand and there's no "Y" wiring running from Pin1 to the internal pin. Seems I may have been right, at least partially. Glad yours is doing what you want! -Rod-


----------



## USAPatriot

I'm not planning on making any preamp tube changes, and right now I definitely don't feel the need, but I can't help wondering how the Marshall branded 12AX7's would do in my JCA22H. Like the DSL40C, it's a 2 channel 20w amp, Crunch and OD, separate MV's, a loop, 3 band EQ, but no added mods or switches. It's not the most versatile amp around and tends to be rather bland without some toys in the loop, and in the past has given me "close to" Marshall tones, both clean and dirty. Right now it's mostly loaded with Tungsols in the front and has 2 Electroharmonix EL-84's. The short-plate 12AX7's could do very well in it. Or not. At one point I had 2 green, one orange and one red Retrovalves in it. Man that thing had some hair! lol Ah well. Thinking outloud. -Rod-


----------



## gibguy

Rod if you really want to spice up your amp get a full pre amp tube line up from Marty. I did that and it added so much to the amp it was incredible. Overall tone and the touch feel between amp guitar. We'll worth it.


----------



## cruisemates

Micky said:


> The Man-O-War is the G12-75 equivalent, and I can't say enough good about it. Marty runs them in his TSL, and I feel they have enough bass but yet still maintain the mid clarity you need with this amp. Try one if you can...



The Invader does not look like the G12-65 (different diaphragm)

WGS:






G12-65





I think the ET-65 is the right one: 





Do you think they sound better in series or parallel? 
(anyway, I have a pair of G12-65s, but they are currently in a 4x12 with some G12-75s - that is a magical combination.)


----------



## bman

I like to think Marshall corp. took it through its paces and tried many different things before releasing this amp. It sounds nasty good out the box. The old moded JCM 800's had to be fully cranked to get the muscle this amp can achieve at low volumes.


----------



## USAPatriot

gibguy said:


> Rod if you really want to spice up your amp get a full pre amp tube line up from Marty. I did that and it added so much to the amp it was incredible. Overall tone and the touch feel between amp guitar. We'll worth it.



Thanks for the tip but am not feeling the need. The work I did last night not only gained me back what I'd lost but gave me much more too, including loads of touch. On Red2 I can go from mild to wild with ease. The guitar is no slouch either, a 2014 Gibson LP Standard. Those hated PCB's under the pots are really versatile. -Rod-


----------



## J.LaGrassa

bman said:


> I like to think Marshall corp. took it through its paces and tried many different things before releasing this amp. It sounds nasty good out the box. The old moded JCM 800's had to be fully cranked to get the muscle this amp can achieve at low volumes.




Got to agree, out of the box this amp rocks... at any volume!


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

I hope your issues get worked out one way or another Solar.


----------



## solarburn

Well I like the amp so much I'm tempted to buy another while I sort this one out.

Really got some good tones from her.


----------



## Micky

gibguy said:


> Rod if you really want to spice up your amp get a full pre amp tube line up from Marty. I did that and it added so much to the amp it was incredible. Overall tone and the touch feel between amp guitar. We'll worth it.



I gotta admit, NOS tubes in the preamp section can make all the difference in the world. They certainly don't make 'em like they used to, and it matters not where you get them, it DOES matter where you PUT them.

Marty has the experience to put together a set for your amp. No one I know has the interests of our membership in mind more than Marty. Best part is, even if you don't get some NOS tubes from him, he will take the time to outline a set for you and your particular amp. 

I hear a lot of people as of late complain how their DSL doesn't sound like it used to... A lot of that has to do with your ears, but an equal portion in my opinion has to do with tubes. If you look carefully at an amp, there are 3 variables. The guitar and the guy attached to it, the controls on the front of the amp and the tubes. Those are generally the only things that can change. Sure another component value can drift off a bit, but that is very rare.

So I am trying hard not to sound like Dreyn here, but either practice more, change your settings, or change your tubes.


----------



## guitarman3001

I mentioned this earlier but I don't know if anyone has gone this route yet. Has anyone tried modifying the clean channel to make it brighter? I looked at the schematics a while ago and I'm pretty sure it was C5 that looked like it performed a similar function on the clean channel as C19 does on the ultra channel. After having used the amp quite a bit, I think I would prefer to make the clean channel brighter rather than take the highs out of the ultra channel by changing or getting rid of C19.


----------



## Micky

guitarman3001 said:


> I mentioned this earlier but I don't know if anyone has gone this route yet. Has anyone tried modifying the clean channel to make it brighter? I looked at the schematics a while ago and I'm pretty sure it was C5 that looked like it performed a similar function on the clean channel as C19 does on the ultra channel. After having used the amp quite a bit, I think I would prefer to make the clean channel brighter rather than take the highs out of the ultra channel by changing or getting rid of C19.



I am not sure, but C5 seems like too small a value to make much difference. Wouldn't C9 or possibly C4 be a better suspect? And then, what value would you try?


----------



## solarburn

Micky said:


> I hear a lot of people as of late complain how their DSL doesn't sound like it used to... A lot of that has to do with your ears, but an equal portion in my opinion has to do with tubes. If you look carefully at an amp, there are 3 variables. The guitar and the guy attached to it, the controls on the front of the amp and the tubes. Those are generally the only things that can change. Sure another component value can drift off a bit, but that is very rare.
> 
> So I am trying hard not to sound like Dreyn here, but either practice more, change your settings, or change your tubes.



I agree there are particular things to look at while trouble shooting an amp. After I've gone through my chain and tubes icluding checking bias and still find my tone stack treble setting needed to be backed off considerably as well as roll off immediately sounds too thin I might consider the amps changed for the worse.

This makes me want what I originally bought with my hard earned money. A DSL that sounds great...which the same ears told me it did.

Practicing more is not going to make that treble and thinness less harsh. It can make me a better player. Ive changed tubes and still have the issue. I've tweaked settings and find it lacking the good tone and feel it had.

Having a discerning ear can be a liability. It can cause you to expect a certain standard or level of sound. I'll admit I'm finnicky.

Right now I'm putting a bandaid on it by using a 10 band EQ in it. I'm finding decent settings but the dynamics aren't there like before. It was warmer.


----------



## solarburn

Rounder and more responsive.

Anyways I'll get it sorted out. I'm done.


----------



## guitarman3001

Micky said:


> I am not sure, but C5 seems like too small a value to make much difference. Wouldn't C9 or possibly C4 be a better suspect? And then, what value would you try?



Could be C9 or C4. I forgot which one it was and don't have the schematic in front of me.

Not really sure what value I'd try. That's why I'm asking and hoping someone has tried it so they could give me an idea of what might work.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Got my amp cover today from Custom Amp Covers, inc. its very well made (heavy duty Vinyl)and a perfect fit, only $55 and that includes shipping. Highly recommend this company if you need a cover for your amp.


----------



## bman

Not sure who cares or doesn't but I wanted to share my simple "go to" setting for hard rock/80's &90's Metal. Use an axe with a good humbucker. Using red channel on Lead 1. Gain7, Trebble4, Mids7, Bass6, Presence3 and a half, Resonance 6 and a half. Playing this setting with volume anywhere between 1 and 3. For me this setting gets real close to early VH, Dokken etc. Brownish sound but a little meaner IMO.


----------



## AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing

Sweet. I will try that out next time I play with one.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

bman said:


> Not sure who cares or doesn't but I wanted to share my simple "go to" setting for hard rock/80's &90's Metal. Use an axe with a good humbucker. Using red channel on Lead 1. Gain7, Trebble4, Mids7, Bass6, Presence3 and a half, Resonance 6 and a half. Playing this setting with volume anywhere between 1 and 3. For me this setting gets real close to early VH, Dokken etc. Brownish sound but a little meaner IMO.



Those settings are close to what I like to use, my mids are on 5. I started to mess around with lead 2 set at around 3 for a thicker tone and whats nice is there is still plenty of clarity and cleans up well.


----------



## bman

Yes I agree. The slightly higher mid-range setting gives me much more sustain and that "snarl" I feel Marshall is famous for. Different guitar pick-ups will also have an impact on where you adjust the amp pots. I am using a Fender made EVH wolfgang and the bridge pick-up is very balanced and only slightly hot.


----------



## bman

When i was a teen we used to scoop our mids down playing metellica etc... Now that im older and hopefully wiser I realize that good tone has good mids. This is what defines good equipment from shit...The DSL sounds great w/ a slight mid boost. More sustain and character in the tone. But then again its just my opinion. Im a 41 year old audiophille who sells high priced home audio equipment.


----------



## USAPatriot

guitarman3001 said:


> I mentioned this earlier but I don't know if anyone has gone this route yet. Has anyone tried modifying the clean channel to make it brighter? I looked at the schematics a while ago and I'm pretty sure it was C5 that looked like it performed a similar function on the clean channel as C19 does on the ultra channel. After having used the amp quite a bit, I think I would prefer to make the clean channel brighter rather than take the highs out of the ultra channel by changing or getting rid of C19.





Micky said:


> I am not sure, but C5 seems like too small a value to make much difference. Wouldn't C9 or possibly C4 be a better suspect? And then, what value would you try?



C4 and C5 look to exist before the switch so that would seem to affect both sides of the green channel, clean and crunch. C9 appears to just affect the crunch side...far fewer components so I'm assuming far less filtering, ergo crunch not clean. I'm not the expert that these other guys are, but it seems to me that if you want the clean to be brighter, turn the gain down, the treble and the volume up and possibly an EQ with a clean boost in the loop or in front would be more useful. Or toss in different preamp tubes if you have them or want to buy them, bearing in mind that'll affect the downstream channels as well.

Feel free to correct me if you disagree. This is a learning experience for me too. -Rod-


----------



## USAPatriot

bman said:


> When i was a teen we used to scoop our mids down playing metellica etc... Now that im older and hopefully wiser I realize that good tone has good mids. This is what defines good equipment from shit...The DSL sounds great w/ a slight mid boost. More sustain and character in the tone. But then again its just my opinion. Im a 41 year old audiophille who sells high priced home audio equipment.



Definitely. Clipping C19 cut the shit and boosting my mids slightly in the loop via an MXR-108 is giving me a terrific snarl when I ask for it and it'll sustain for far longer than anyone would reasonably need it to.

Maybe Guinness needs an "unassisted sustain with an electric guitar and amplifier" world record  -Rod-


----------



## solarburn

Here's a clip of mine now. To me it's lost its meanness and is sounding cleaner.. has less authority and bark and I really have to dig in for any to happen.

L2 gain at 4, mids 4, treble 2.5, presence 3, Res 6 and bass at 6.5. So I've decreased topend and increased lowend. These settings have all changed from what I had before it gimped.

YT made it sound smoother less raspy. Excuse the slop. Jus being random.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNbdBXzbmxY]Gimped DSL40 - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## J.LaGrassa

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Here's a clip of mine now. To me it's lost its meanness and is sounding cleaner.. has less authority and bark and I really have to dig in for any to happen.
> 
> L2 gain at 4, mids 4, treble 2.5, presence 3, Res 6 and bass at 6.5. So I've decreased topend and increased lowend. These settings have all changed from what I had before it gimped.
> 
> YT made it sound smoother less raspy. Excuse the slop. Jus being random.
> 
> Gimped DSL40 - YouTube



Doesn't sound bad to my ears but I know it can be quite different when your in the room with it. So what is the history of all mods and tweaks you have done, did you just try different tubes ar did you try some circuit mods as well.


----------



## solarburn

J.LaGrassa said:


> Doesn't sound bad to my ears but I know it can be quite different when your in the room with it. So what is the history of all mods and tweaks you have done, did you just try different tubes ar did you try some circuit mods as well.



Its stock except for V1&V2. No other changes. I didn't roll volume off at anytime. Just played lighter.

Its trebley and cleaner. If I add amp gain it still runs cleaner ...the saturation. Doesn't want to thicken up and punch like it did.

Like I pointed out YouTube smoothed the recording out making the highs not piercing like they are in the room.

I did run other good tubes both pre and power throught it to get back what I lost but it didn't do it. I was running my treble about 4 and mids around 5. Bass was at 5 and Res 4 or 5.

Really adding more bottom and cutting top just diminishes the tone. The happy medium turns unhappy. LOL

To me the amp is more plexi like due to how its running cleaner. Its because I can tweak things that it sounds good at all. I know how to fine tune a turd to a point. Now will my other voicings sound good with the same settings like before I don't know yet. It was even brighter on the green side and I haven't checked L1 shock is the toppiest voicing of all.


----------



## solarburn

Autocorrect ...got to love it. Supposed to be "which" not "shock ".


----------



## J.LaGrassa

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Its stock except for V1&V2. No other changes. I didn't roll volume off at anytime. Just played lighter.
> 
> Its trebley and cleaner. If I add amp gain it still runs cleaner ...the saturation. Doesn't want to thicken up and punch like it did.
> 
> Like I pointed out YouTube smoothed the recording out making the highs not piercing like they are in the room.
> 
> I did run other good tubes both pre and power throught it to get back what I lost but it didn't do it. I was running my treble about 4 and mids around 5. Bass was at 5 and Res 4 or 5.
> 
> Really adding more bottom and cutting top just diminishes the tone. The happy medium turns unhappy. LOL
> 
> To me the amp is more plexi like due to how its running cleaner. Its because I can tweak things that it sounds good at all. I know how to fine tune a turd to a point. Now will my other voicings sound good with the same settings like before I don't know yet. It was even brighter on the green side and I haven't checked L1 shock is the toppiest voicing of all.




Thats a strange Issue!
The more I play mine the the fatter the tone is getting and less bright, my treble and presence is just about on 5 now when the gain is set on 6 or 7. If I go lower then it will get brighter but I have no trouble taking the edge off , wonder if something is up with your speaker.


----------



## solarburn

Its elusive.

Awesome yours is getting fatter. That first clip you did already sounded meaty. Love the amp when its running good. Get some more clips up when you get time.


----------



## Roger Tyria

Solar,
Just a thought have you tried swapping out V4 PI stage with a new tube. Maybe the gain has dropped in this tube which is not allowing the punch to get to the output tubes?


----------



## solarburn

Roger Tyria said:


> Solar,
> Just a thought have you tried swapping out V4 PI stage with a new tube. Maybe the gain has dropped in this tube which is not allowing the punch to get to the output tubes?



Yeah I went through each slot. I may do it again though..

Good thinking for sure Roger and thanks.


----------



## bman

Sounds fine to me.


----------



## USAPatriot

If it's really bugging you, maybe recheck the voltage at Pin 3 directly and recheck the bias. I'd think that if your power tubes are changing then it'll show up in those readings. I noticed that in checking the bias, there's about a 1mv difference between what I got on Con5 versus checking across R67 and R68. My guess is it's just a function of current distance traveled. Or maybe it's time to rethink what you're doing in V1 ad V2. What's in there now? V1 is normally a very low noise but high gain tube, the same as what came in V2, 3 and 4 but 'supposedly' hand picked and marked for V1 use. Maybe returning V1 to stock will get you part of the way back? -Rod-

EDIT: I forgot to mention that in order to get my own snarl back, I not only replaced the stock 00101's with TAD EL34B-STR's *but also put the original V1 tube back in it's slot*. I don't know how much each change contributed to what I have now. -Rod-


----------



## USAPatriot

bman said:


> Sounds fine to me.



It does sound good. But Red2 with the gain on 4 and an unclipped C-19? Not in my universe. It should be bleeding fizz and it's not, and there's very little low end going on there (at least up to that halfway mark where I stopped it), just mids and highs. Something's amiss in my opinion. -Rod-


----------



## J.LaGrassa

deleted


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Anyone use dougs tubes 4 12ax7 tone kit?
it consists of
V1 - Tung 12AX7

V2 - Penta Labs 12AX7

V3 - Penta Labs 12AX7

V4 - Sovtek 12AX7 LPS

he also recommended the Ruby EL34BHT for power tubes, I'm tempted to try these out


----------



## solarburn

USAPatriot said:


> It does sound good. But Red2 with the gain on 4 and an unclipped C-19? Not in my universe. It should be bleeding fizz and it's not, and there's very little low end going on there (at least up to that halfway mark where I stopped it), just mids and highs. Something's amiss in my opinion. -Rod-



Mids and highs with bass and Res adjusted high to compensate. Also treble and mids lowered to ease piercing highs.

Told ya something changed especially my EQ settings. Good to know I'm not imagining shit. LOL


----------



## USAPatriot

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Mids and highs with bass and Res adjusted high to compensate. Also treble and mids lowered to ease piercing highs.
> 
> Told ya something changed especially my EQ settings. Good to know I'm not imagining shit. LOL



Don't get me wrong, it sounded great, but the bottom end was gone. It could be the recording...it may have far more there than what's in the video, and yeah, some of the highs were definitely piercing...shrill even. That's not always a bad thing. Kevin Cronin made a good living at it.

I think I'd first check voltages and bias, and if nothing's drifted, put it all back to stock, including the initial bias if you recorded it, and see if anything changes for the better. If not, then it's got to be some components that have gone south. I don't know electronics nor these circuits the way others do, but maybe it's a low-pass circuit that's gone. Can you get it somewhere in the neighborhood of normal with the EQ or does it just turn to mud?

I've been meaning to document the test points on the PCB...I think there's 8 of them...but I don't any clue of what they should be. Still, in the near future I'll document what I can. Good luck with yours. Like you, I'd like to have a second one, one to play, one to experiment with lol -Rod-


----------



## Duffy49

cruisemates said:


> I am interested in those WGS now (the g12-65 style ones - what were they called? invaders or something?)
> 
> The Celestion g12-65 is a nice smooth sounding speaker with clear top end but (IMO) not so much low end.
> 
> For this amp I personally feel you need something with more low end and something to tame the brightness a little bit. The G12-65 has "sweet" highs, so that could work, but I tend to lean to V30 or maybe a G12-75.



You might want to try an Eminence "Swamp Thang". I have two of them in my Avatar cab and they sound great. They have a great sound. Very beautiful low end and great top end that is definitely not too bright. They are rated at 150 watts, so you won't be likely to blow a speaker. Personally I would want more watts than 60 in the 40c. The Seventy/80 is 80 watts and actually not a bad speaker. I think breaking it in is the main thing it needs. Of course there are lots of other great speakers out there that you can try, of which the Swamp Thang is one I like - the best speaker I've ever used actually.

Good luck. Also, your ear may just need to get used to the stock speaker and you may need to continue learning about the amp and work with the controls and the controls on your guitar.


----------



## guitarman8

You know what they said if it ain't broke don't fix it. Man this amp after in use and broken in, in just like three weeks is the bomb. You don't need to mess with this amp, no other tubes, no other speaker. "It's a mother beautiful sounding amp" as is. "Donald Sutherland Kelley's Hero's quote. 

Well maybe some larger transformers to beef the power past 50 watts. Only reason I can think of as to why two EL34's will put out just 40 watts. Pick your larger boutique transformers and nail them in, but don't changes the other stuff.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Here is a real small clip of the DSL40 with JJ ECC83S installed into all 4 preamp stages, I will try and do a better one this weekend after I install a pair of JJ E34L I will have those on Saturday!

JJ ECC83S preamp tubes & stock Power tubes using Lead 1, these JJ's I feel are slightly less gain than the stock preamp tubes but are a bit warmer.

[SC]https://soundcloud.com/jlagrassa-1/jjecc83s-sample[/SC]


----------



## J.LaGrassa

guitarman8 said:


> You know what they said if it ain't broke don't fix it. Man this amp after in use and broken in, in just like three weeks is the bomb. You don't need to mess with this amp, no other tubes, no other speaker. "It's a mother beautiful sounding amp" as is. "Donald Sutherland Kelley's Hero's quote.
> 
> Well maybe some larger transformers to beef the power past 50 watts. Only reason I can think of as to why two EL34's will put out just 40 watts. Pick your larger boutique transformers and nail them in, but don't changes the other stuff.




I agree this amp broken in is very nice, no need to mess with the circuit I could easily gig this amp as is. Tubes and speaker changes are just a way of fine tuning your tone so thats just all personal preference and fun to do.


----------



## guitarman8

Yes I've been jamming with my favorite stuff with this amp. Many Gilmore tunes, plenty of Robin Trower tunes. It fits perfect for me. I'm using the gain channel 1 at 6 on the gain with a vintage strat. What a great tone this amp has. I'm dumping my old JCM800 combo and keeping this amp. Would suggest a lexicon mpx100 or 200 in the effects loop which performs quietly and adds dimension specially for Strats. I tried some other speakers celestions and the stock speaker sounds best for me.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

guitarman8 said:


> Yes I've been jamming with my favorite stuff with this amp. Many Gilmore tunes, plenty of Robin Trower tunes. It fits perfect for me. I'm using the gain channel 1 at 6 on the gain with a vintage strat. What a great tone this amp has. I'm dumping my old JCM800 combo and keeping this amp. Would suggest a lexicon mpx100 or 200 in the effects loop which performs quietly and adds dimension specially for Strats. I tried some other speakers celestions and the stock speaker sounds best for me.


I've been thinking about getting a rack fx processor instead of using pedals I only use delay and chorus, thanks for the suggestion on the Lexicon I may look into those or an older G Major.


----------



## guitarman8

J.LaGrassa said:


> I've been thinking about getting a rack fx processor instead of using pedals I only use delay and chorus, thanks for the suggestion on the Lexicon I may look into those or an older G Major.



The MPX100 will be fine that's what I use and it's cheap got mine for $100 on Ebay, it's simply to use also. Even Jeff Beck uses one like this.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Got my JJ E34L power tubes in today, I think these sound great in the amp I get a nice solid feel from the amp. I also noticed the amp is a lot quieter compared to the stock power tubes!

Here is a little random playing clip of the amp with all JJ tubes 4 ECC83S preamp tubes & 2 E34L power tubes, also added a little delay from a Boss DD-3
[SC]https://soundcloud.com/jlagrassa-1/jj-tubes[/SC]

Here are my settings:


----------



## Roger Tyria

External Bias and Plate Voltage Test Points

I've had the parts for about a month and finally took the time today to get this installed. I will be happy now to be able to check settings and Plate Voltages without needing to pull the chassis and connect a speaker extension to tweak or test output tubes.

Parts cost < $15.00 most of these came from Webber. They have the locking trim pots - advertised as 50K but when I opened the package they had 47K stamped on the back.. Perfect since the stock trimmers on the PCB were 47K.

Most of the time was spent pulling out the circuit board to remove the stock trim pots. While the PCB was out I drilled all the holes and ran the wires for the VP test points. These are Top left in the photo the smaller ones that fit a standard test probe tip.

I decided to install Standard binding post connections for the Bias points, this way I can use a banana jack and have both hands free to adjust the bias settings without needing to hold a meter lead.

I found a Phoenix connector that fit CON1 bias points perfectly, so this will make it easy if I ever need to pull the PCB in the future.

I installed the bias pots directly above each binding post so the trim pot adjusts the bias on the same side, unlike when using the internal connector. I also set the pots up so when they are turned clockwise the bias voltage goes less negative resulting in an increase in plate current.

Turned it on about an hour ago and adjusted everything seems to be working fine.

This is not a tough job, if you have the parts and about 3-4 hours I think it will be well worth the time spent.


----------



## mickeydg5

J.LaGrassa said:


> Got my JJ E34L power tubes in today, I think these sound great in the amp I get a nice solid feel from the amp. I also noticed the amp is a lot quieter compared to the stock power tubes!
> 
> Here is a little random playing clip of the amp with all JJ tubes 4 ECC83S preamp tubes & 2 E34L power tubes, also added a little delay from a Boss DD-3
> [SC]https://soundcloud.com/jlagrassa-1/jj-tubes[/SC]
> 
> Here are my settings:


That sounded pretty good.

Tell me was the beginning of that third stint in the clip part of Falling OF The Edge OF The World?
If it was, always a favorite.


----------



## USAPatriot

Roger Tyria said:


> External Bias and Plate Voltage Test Points
> 
> I've had the parts for about a month and finally took the time today to get this installed. I will be happy now to be able to check settings and Plate Voltages without needing to pull the chassis and connect a speaker extension to tweak or test output tubes.
> 
> Parts cost < $15.00 most of these came from Webber. They have the locking trim pots - advertised as 50K but when I opened the package they had 47K stamped on the back.. Perfect since the stock trimmers on the PCB were 47K.
> 
> Most of the time was spent pulling out the circuit board to remove the stock trim pots. While the PCB was out I drilled all the holes and ran the wires for the VP test points. These are Top left in the photo the smaller ones that fit a standard test probe tip.
> 
> I decided to install Standard binding post connections for the Bias points, this way I can use a banana jack and have both hands free to adjust the bias settings without needing to hold a meter lead.
> 
> I found a Phoenix connector that fit CON1 bias points perfectly, so this will make it easy if I ever need to pull the PCB in the future.
> 
> I installed the bias pots directly above each binding post so the trim pot adjusts the bias on the same side, unlike when using the internal connector. I also set the pots up so when they are turned clockwise the bias voltage goes less negative resulting in an increase in plate current.
> 
> Turned it on about an hour ago and adjusted everything seems to be working fine.
> 
> This is not a tough job, if you have the parts and about 3-4 hours I think it will be well worth the time spent.



Very cool. I've been thinking of doing the same for awhile. It looks like you used the one ground on CON5 for the PV and Bias ground, do I have that right? Did you connect directly to Pin 3 for the PV banana jacks? -Rod-


----------



## Roger Tyria

Yes Rod I just used the center Pin of CON5 [AGND] for reference for both VP and bias voltage.
Brought Pins 1 and 3 to the red binding posts from CON5
Wired directly to the tube sockets for the plate voltage TP's


----------



## J.LaGrassa

mickeydg5 said:


> That sounded pretty good.
> 
> Tell me was the beginning of that third stint in the clip part of Falling OF The Edge OF The World?
> If it was, always a favorite.




It was actually "Mob Rules" from Black Sabbath  I don't really know it but love that riff.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Roger Tyria said:


> External Bias and Plate Voltage Test Points
> 
> I've had the parts for about a month and finally took the time today to get this installed. I will be happy now to be able to check settings and Plate Voltages without needing to pull the chassis and connect a speaker extension to tweak or test output tubes.
> 
> Parts cost < $15.00 most of these came from Webber. They have the locking trim pots - advertised as 50K but when I opened the package they had 47K stamped on the back.. Perfect since the stock trimmers on the PCB were 47K.
> 
> Most of the time was spent pulling out the circuit board to remove the stock trim pots. While the PCB was out I drilled all the holes and ran the wires for the VP test points. These are Top left in the photo the smaller ones that fit a standard test probe tip.
> 
> I decided to install Standard binding post connections for the Bias points, this way I can use a banana jack and have both hands free to adjust the bias settings without needing to hold a meter lead.
> 
> I found a Phoenix connector that fit CON1 bias points perfectly, so this will make it easy if I ever need to pull the PCB in the future.
> 
> I installed the bias pots directly above each binding post so the trim pot adjusts the bias on the same side, unlike when using the internal connector. I also set the pots up so when they are turned clockwise the bias voltage goes less negative resulting in an increase in plate current.
> 
> Turned it on about an hour ago and adjusted everything seems to be working fine.
> 
> This is not a tough job, if you have the parts and about 3-4 hours I think it will be well worth the time spent.



Thats awesome Roger, I thought about doing that my self it's definitely easier than taking the chassis out every time you need to re bias. I have a Weber Bias rite that lets me check the plate voltage as well as the bias that could keep the mod a little simpler and just remote the pots!

Thanks for posting that info!


----------



## solarburn

J.LaGrassa said:


> Got my JJ E34L power tubes in today, I think these sound great in the amp I get a nice solid feel from the amp. I also noticed the amp is a lot quieter compared to the stock power tubes!
> 
> Here is a little random playing clip of the amp with all JJ tubes 4 ECC83S preamp tubes & 2 E34L power tubes, also added a little delay from a Boss DD-3
> [SC]https://soundcloud.com/jlagrassa-1/jj-tubes[/SC]
> 
> Here are my settings:



Great pic of your settings and I like any clips you do. Keep em coming.

I also used the 34L's in mine. After awhile I found I missed the mids of the stock power tubes. Guess my ears favored them. I get great results from the 34L's in my other amps.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Great pic of your settings and I like any clips you do. Keep em coming.
> 
> I also used the 34L's in mine. After awhile I found I missed the mids of the stock power tubes. Guess my ears favored them. I get great results from the 34L's in my other amps.



Love the tone and feel of the JJ E34L so far I also prefer them over the Svetlana EL34 (The real ones) I tried last week. I like the tone of the stock EL34 but they make some noises when you first turn them on and then quiet down and the hiss level is higher, I'm definitely digg'n the full set of JJ's in this amp better than stock!


----------



## USAPatriot

Roger Tyria said:


> Yes Rod I just used the center Pin of CON5 [AGND] for reference for both VP and bias voltage.
> Brought Pins 1 and 3 to the red binding posts from CON5
> Wired directly to the tube sockets for the plate voltage TP's



It was a good bit of work. Nice  -Rod-


----------



## bman

This thread has so much activity i have lost track. After playing my 40 for about 6 months now I have noticed a few things. The Green channel sounds great and the red does too but sounds a little too thin. Anyway to make channel 2 as full sounding as channel 1 w/o messing w/ the the gain characteristics lead two has to offer because i love it's tone. Im not into speaker swapping and afraid to do the c19 clip. Are these the only conclusions you guys have drawn? Again lead 2 sounds awesome just would like it a little thicker like channel 1.


----------



## lordquilton

Seems like you have to run the red channel at higher volume to compensate for that treble. It feels like something's kicking me upside the head when I run it that loud here, so I put boost/distortion in front of green crunch for thicker leads and more hard rock/metal rhythm tones.

My local tech did C19 (replaced with 100pf) for free. I always come back to green crunch, but I still use red 2 as an alternative lead tone, gain at about 9 or 10 o'clock. It has something that the boosted green doesn't have; hard to put my finger on, sounds effing great though.

So imho your Red 2 options are play at higher output volume, or do C19 and maybe be prepared to back off the tone control on the guitar a bit.


----------



## USAPatriot

bman said:


> This thread has so much activity i have lost track. After playing my 40 for about 6 months now I have noticed a few things. The Green channel sounds great and the red does too but sounds a little too thin. Anyway to make channel 2 as full sounding as channel 1 w/o messing w/ the the gain characteristics lead two has to offer because i love it's tone. Im not into speaker swapping and afraid to do the c19 clip. Are these the only conclusions you guys have drawn? Again lead 2 sounds awesome just would like it a little thicker like channel 1.



You may just need more EQ work if all you're using is the amp's front panel. I've got an MXR-108 in the loop which gives me a lot more flexibility. It's easy for this amp to go from thin to muddy, so small changes in different bands can be a big help. I've noticed that as I acclimate to playing louder that the sliders go up to compensate, else it gets too shrill. My C-19 is clipped though, the fizz is gone and the channel is as quiet as a gain channel can be when it's turned up. I've got a brown sound going on that I like but not really what I want. Good stuff though, all around. -Rod-


----------



## Jws

Just Mike said:


> An OCD or a TS-9 in front of the green crunch channel is all I need. I don't even use the Ultra channel. But I'm an old guy who plays Classic rock.


I'm having a blast exploring the crunch/green channel mode with od and fuzz pedals. My red Dunlop Fuzz Face never sounded better!.


----------



## kingbee

Jws said:


> I'm having a blast exploring the crunch/green channel mode with od and fuzz pedals. My red Dunlop Fuzz Face never sounded better!.



A Timmy sounds great for this! Expecting a Mythical Overdrive next week. Can't wait!


----------



## J.LaGrassa




----------



## guitarman8

Jws said:


> I'm having a blast exploring the crunch/green channel mode with od and fuzz pedals. My red Dunlop Fuzz Face never sounded better!.



Clean channels are great for fuzz tones, when ever I hit my Demeter Fuzztone I'm over at the clean channel. This amp just keeps getting better reading the introductory from Marshall I just noticed it says there's a mid boost when using high gain 2. Just when I needed for strats. It just gets better every day.


----------



## JohnH

bman said:


> The Green channel sounds great and the red does too but sounds a little too thin. Anyway to make channel 2 as full sounding as channel 1 w/o messing w/ the the gain characteristics lead two has to offer because i love it's tone. Im not into speaker swapping and afraid to do the c19 clip. Are these the only conclusions you guys have drawn? Again lead 2 sounds awesome just would like it a little thicker like channel 1.



On its predecessor dsl401, I fixed that problem by increasing a very small coupling cap after V1a. Maybe a similar method could work here, though it is a different design. Is the preamp circuit near enough to the old DSL50 and 100?


----------



## Coronado

Jws said:


> I'm having a blast exploring the crunch/green channel mode with od and fuzz pedals. My red Dunlop Fuzz Face never sounded better!.


 
I have never tried a Big Muff pedal before. GC had one used for like 40 bucks, so I thought I would give it a shot. Been using it on the clean channel and DAMN has that been fun! Add in some reverb, chorus, MXR carbon copy, and then some wah... Too much fun!


----------



## Coronado

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Great pic of your settings and I like any clips you do. Keep em coming.





solarburnDSL50 said:


> I also used the 34L's in mine. After awhile I found I missed the mids of the stock power tubes. Guess my ears favored them. I get great results from the 34L's in my other amps.





Hey SolarB!! Thanks again for the *GREAT* advice on that Ruby AC7 HG!! Still loving that tube. Its been a handful of months since I put in the V30, so I think its finally getting broken in. This amp has clearly become my _go to_ amp. Each time I think about perhaps picking up another amp, or a new cab, I just end up comparing it to the DSL40 and change my mind


----------



## Coronado

JohnH said:


> On its predecessor dsl401, I fixed that problem by increasing a very small coupling cap after V1a. Maybe a similar method could work here, though it is a different design. Is the preamp circuit near enough to the old DSL50 and 100?


 
You may want to try that Ruby AC7 HG that SolarBurn got me hooked on. Really fattened up my sound on the red channel. It was the fix I was looking for. I did a quick speaker swap though as well, but I could have been just as happy after adding that new tube.

*edit*: Sorry JohnH, meant that response for bman's question.


----------



## Micky

JohnH said:


> On its predecessor dsl401, I fixed that problem by increasing a very small coupling cap after V1a. Maybe a similar method could work here, though it is a different design. Is the preamp circuit near enough to the old DSL50 and 100?



Yes, the preamps are almost exactly alike. There are a few design differences, but the first stages are almost exactly the same circuit, although the design and layout is much different.


----------



## bman

*New Topic*

I have obviously noticed that my DSL 40 sounds best when the post gain/volume is between 3 and 6. However, I live in a townhouse and 2 is typically all I can get buy with. Can someone please recommend a good sound brake pettle or box to run the post tubes hot but keep volume low? Inexpensive is also important since i only spent $650 for my amp. 
Thanks in advance!  Almost forgot, the half power mode doesn't cut volume too much but kills the headroom.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

*Re: New Topic*



bman said:


> I have obviously noticed that my DSL 40 sounds best when the post gain/volume is between 3 and 6. However, I live in a townhouse and 2 is typically all I can get buy with. Can someone please recommend a good sound brake pettle or box to run the post tubes hot but keep volume low? Inexpensive is also important since i only spent $650 for my amp.
> Thanks in advance!  Almost forgot, the half power mode doesn't cut volume too much but kills the headroom.




Not sure how good this is but for $39 it might work for your needs!

Speaker Soak True Power Tube Guitar Amp Volume Attenuator


----------



## USAPatriot

*Re: New Topic*



J.LaGrassa said:


> Not sure how good this is but for $39 it might work for your needs!
> 
> Speaker Soak True Power Tube Guitar Amp Volume Attenuator



Bought one!  -Rod-


----------



## AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing

$39? Thats a little scary...usually those things are around $400 right? Be curious to see how well it works at that price point.


----------



## bman

*Re: New Topic*

That is very cheap..I'll check it out.


----------



## bman

*Re: New Topic*

Does it work?


----------



## USAPatriot

*Re: New Topic*



bman said:


> Does it work?



Their description sounds wholly reasonable and they warn numerous times that it is NOT to be used on amps over 50w. Like as not, you'd not want to run it at full capacity. All these things do is dump excess heat as a consequence of lowering the signal getting to the speakers. The real question is will it do so without screwing up our tone so bad that we can't accommodate it with the EQ. Their advice is to crank it up, crank your volume then adjust it down until you're happy. Given the unknowns, the opposite is probably the wiser course of action. Turn the amp up in increments while doing the same with the attenuator, listening to the output, listening for warning signs from the amp and monitoring the heat and also the tubes. That's my plan, anyway. -Rod-


----------



## AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing

I looked that thing up yesterday after i posted. My internet research (i.e other message boards) tells me it is a simple device and not a "true" power soak (whatever that means). most everyone conjectures that while it is not a scam and will do what it claims (allow you to crank your amp while keeping the real world loudness down), you will NOT get your amp's real cranked tone at low volumes, youll get some weak shadow of that tone or even something that resembles that tone not a single bit. But of course NONE of these folks has actually bought one and tried it, so take all that for what its worth.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

The way I look at it is when you crank your amp up and hear that great tone a big part of that is the speaker working hard as well, you can attenuate your amp and work the tubes harder but you will not get the same feel from a speaker hardly being pushed. Personally I think the Master volume on the DSL40 is great!


----------



## USAPatriot

J.LaGrassa said:


> The way I look at it is when you crank your amp up and hear that great tone a big part of that is the speaker working hard as well, you can attenuate your amp and work the tubes harder but you will not get the same feel from a speaker hardly being pushed. Personally I think the Master volume on the DSL40 is great!



I'd never considered an attenuator in my life but at 40 bucks I figured it was at least worth the experiment. It's just going to be a box with two jacks, a pot and a big assed resistor inside. That's it. For twice the cost, or more, you can buy one that lets you select the speaker impedance. When you order this one they make you specify your cab setup, 16, 8 or 4 ohms and that's all it will work on...the one you select. It's why it costs so little. If it doesn't work out, I'll kick myself no harder than when I bought the bias probe from Eurotubes...the one that only gives me the plate voltage, not the bias. lol -Rod-

EDIT: I made a really grievous error when I mistakenly mentioned another company with my bias probe problem. The company in question was Eurotubes. I'm really sorry for the error.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

USAPatriot said:


> I'd never considered an attenuator in my life but at 40 bucks I figured it was at least worth the experiment. It's just going to be a box with two jacks, a pot and a big assed resistor inside. That's it. For twice the cost, or more, you can buy one that lets you select the speaker impedance. When you order this one they make you specify your cab setup, 16, 8 or 4 ohms and that's all it will work on...the one you select. It's why it costs so little. If it doesn't work out, I'll kick myself no harder than when I bought the bias probe from Tube Depot...the one that only gives me the plate voltage, not the bias. lol -Rod-



let us know how it works!

I have a Weber bias rite I bought years ago it switchable between Plate Voltage and bias current works good but don't need to use it with the DSL


----------



## USAPatriot

I'll surely let y'all know how it works! I'm optimistic. I may have to play with the EQ to get what I want, but hey, I get to actually open up the Les Paul's pipes and if I only get 75% of my amp opened up, that's more than I'm getting now. On lead, my guitar is turned down to about 5 and going higher just creeps me out...Red2. Running rhythm or both on Red2 is useless mud. I'm actually looking forward to going backwards to Green2 with some power behind it. I love my crunch more than my shred. -Rod-


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Played with my band tonight and had a blast, I think I'm done messing with the tubes. A friend of mine also a good guitar player thought the amp sounded great and got to agree, when your tone is happening it just inspires you to play better.
Instead of spending money on tubes and speakers I think I will just buy a Marshall shirt and show my admiration for Marshall... I love playing this amp.


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

There is an 8 ohm Vintage 30 for sale nearby. I know I can use it in my 40C but I'm wondering if it will sound any different than the 16 ohm version. It's not a great deal cheaper so if the consensus is that the 16 is better I'll look at a new one instead. 

Thanks guys!


----------



## Micky

Greatwhitenorth said:


> There is an 8 ohm Vintage 30 for sale nearby. I know I can use it in my 40C but I'm wondering if it will sound any different than the 16 ohm version. It's not a great deal cheaper so if the consensus is that the 16 is better I'll look at a new one instead.
> 
> Thanks guys!



No, the specs are virtually the same.
Should sound the same...


----------



## Roger Tyria

Greatwhitenorth said:


> There is an 8 ohm Vintage 30 for sale nearby. I know I can use it in my 40C but I'm wondering if it will sound any different than the 16 ohm version. It's not a great deal cheaper so if the consensus is that the 16 is better I'll look at a new one instead.
> 
> Thanks guys!


I'm not a speaker expert by any means, but I don't think the speaker impeedance makes much difference in sound as long as you have it connected to the correct tap on the OT. 

I believe that the Vintage 30 is a 60w speaker so it should work, but if you crank the amp up you probably will notice more speaker distortion / earlier breakup than the 70/80 stock speaker as that is an 80w rated speaker.

Further up in this thread Micky mentions the value in using a higher wattage speaker to give more headroom.


----------



## USAPatriot

I ordered a pair of Electro-Harmonix 6CA7. We'll see how they do. -Rod-


----------



## Micky

Roger Tyria said:


> I'm not a speaker expert by any means, but I don't think the speaker impeedance makes much difference in sound as long as you have it connected to the correct tap on the OT.
> 
> I believe that the Vintage 30 is a 60w speaker so it should work, but if you crank the amp up you probably will notice more speaker distortion / earlier breakup than the 70/80 stock speaker as that is an 80w rated speaker.
> 
> Further up in this thread Micky mentions the value in using a higher wattage speaker to give more headroom.



There are SOME Eminence speakers that have different specs for different impedance. Generally it is the sensitivity that differs...


----------



## Roger Tyria

Micky said:


> There are SOME Eminence speakers that have different specs for different impedance. Generally it is the sensitivity that differs...


Thanks Micky..
I learn something new on this forum every day...
Great bunch of folks on here!


----------



## Roger Tyria

USAPatriot said:


> I ordered a pair of Electro-Harmonix 6CA7. We'll see how they do. -Rod-


Rod,
I put a pair of JJ 6CA7's in mine and they sound GREAT..compared to the stock EL34's
I tried them against a set of NP Mullard EL34's and still like the 6CA7's better.


----------



## USAPatriot

Roger Tyria said:


> Rod,
> I put a pair of JJ 6CA7's in mine and they sound GREAT..compared to the stock EL34's
> I tried them against a set of NP Mullard EL34's and still like the 6CA7's better.



Very cool. I also considered the EL34L's and maybe in the future I'll give them a shot. I think I was probably looking for an excuse to take the chassis out and do some further explorations  Thanks for the feedback, Roger! -Rod-


----------



## Rickfox

Oh Yeah!! Back in the day, I used Sylvania 6CA7's instead of EL-34's in my 
Marshalls. They brought out a little 6L6 vibe. They even look like 6L6's as they have a very large glass bottle. Rumor has it that EVH did the same. Of course, my day was before Eddie!!
Rickfox


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

Micky said:


> No, the specs are virtually the same.
> Should sound the same...





Roger Tyria said:


> I'm not a speaker expert by any means, but I don't think the speaker impeedance makes much difference in sound as long as you have it connected to the correct tap on the OT.
> 
> I believe that the Vintage 30 is a 60w speaker so it should work, but if you crank the amp up you probably will notice more speaker distortion / earlier breakup than the 70/80 stock speaker as that is an 80w rated speaker.
> 
> Further up in this thread Micky mentions the value in using a higher wattage speaker to give more headroom.



Thanks guys. I just wanted to confirm this. Looks like the speaker is sold so the search continues.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

I've been real curious about the Celestion Creambacks so I got the urge and ordered a G12M 65 Creamback, usually I get it in a day from ZZounds so hopefully I will have it tomorrow. Originally I wanted the 75 but thinking the 65 may be a better match... I guess I will find out.


----------



## bman

Thats exactly what I did.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

bman said:


> Thats exactly what I did.



Did you get a Creamback 65 as well?


----------



## gibguy

Solar, Did you ever sort out your issue with the amp? Curious because now mine seems to have those exact same symptoms now. Amp seems anemic with no real punch and treble is getting way to high. Had been running treble at about 4 1/2 and now all the way down to 1.5 Also seem to have lost 2nd order harmonic feedback. Now I hold a note and it turns to an ungodly feedback that isn't musical at all just pierces my ears yikes. Shouldn't be power tubes I just replaced those with TAD EL34 BSTR. Figuring must be in the pre amp tubes?


----------



## Duffy49

gibguy said:


> Solar, Did you ever sort out your issue with the amp? Curious because now mine seems to have those exact same symptoms now. Amp seems anemic with no real punch and treble is getting way to high. Had been running treble at about 4 1/2 and now all the way down to 1.5 Also seem to have lost 2nd order harmonic feedback. Now I hold a note and it turns to an ungodly feedback that isn't musical at all just pierces my ears yikes. Shouldn't be power tubes I just replaced those with TAD EL34 BSTR. Figuring must be in the pre amp tubes?




Do you have your amp plugged directly into the "wall socket"?

This will sometimes clear up a lot of interference type problems.

Using a power strip can introduce unanticipated problems with your amp, believe it or not.


----------



## Duffy49

J.LaGrassa said:


> Did you get a Creamback 65 as well?




Do you think using a 65 watt speaker is cutting it a little close? The DSL40c can put out a lot more than 65 watt peaks.


----------



## lordquilton

bman said:


> Thats exactly what I did.


Me too.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Duffy49 said:


> Do you think using a 65 watt speaker is cutting it a little close? The DSL40c can put out a lot more than 65 watt peaks.



65 Watts RMS is fine plus i don't crank the amp to 10 I have not even put the volume up past 4 on the master.

FedEx says my speaker will be here tomorrow


----------



## Micky

Duffy49 said:


> Do you think using a 65 watt speaker is cutting it a little close? The DSL40c can put out a lot more than 65 watt peaks.



Both are rated RMS.

I see no problem.


----------



## Duffy49

J.LaGrassa said:


> 65 Watts RMS is fine plus i don't crank the amp to 10 I have not even put the volume up past 4 on the master.
> 
> FedEx says my speaker will be here tomorrow




Are you only turning it up to 4 on the volume on the clean channel too?

On 4 on the clean channel on mine, without crunch, it isn't very loud unless I give it a lot of gain; even then it isn't remarkably loud.

To get real loud on the clean non-crunch setting, I have to crank up both the gain and the volume knobs. Of course engaging the crunch button makes it "a lot" louder at all gain and volume settings.

It sounds like you will definitely be alright with that speaker and it sounds like a great speaker. Good luck with it.

I don't mind the stock Seventy/80 speaker and I also have an Avatar vintage style two by twelve cab with two Eminence Swamp Thang speakers in it. They are rated around 150 watts each, so I use them mainly with my DSL100H head and they sound great and are loud speakers with a high sensitivity rating around 103dB.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Duffy49 said:


> Are you only turning it up to 4 on the volume on the clean channel too?
> 
> On 4 on the clean channel on mine, without crunch, it isn't very loud unless I give it a lot of gain; even then it isn't remarkably loud.
> 
> To get real loud on the clean non-crunch setting, I have to crank up both the gain and the volume knobs. Of course engaging the crunch button makes it "a lot" louder at all gain and volume settings.
> 
> It sounds like you will definitely be alright with that speaker and it sounds like a great speaker. Good luck with it.
> 
> I don't mind the stock Seventy/80 speaker and I also have an Avatar vintage style two by twelve cab with two Eminence Swamp Thang speakers in it. They are rated around 150 watts each, so I use them mainly with my DSL100H head and they sound great and are loud speakers with a high sensitivity rating around 103dB.



master on 4 on the OD 1 channel with gain up at around 6 or 7, I match the clean channel volume to OD channel. my clean tone is usually set with the crunch button in and set for a mild break up!

I like the 70/80 my self but really wanted to try the creamback


----------



## Swede

I only have a 50 watt speaker in mine...No issues at all so far. WGS Invader )Greenback clone)....SOunds killer.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Swede said:


> I only have a 50 watt speaker in mine...No issues at all so far. WGS Invader )Greenback clone)....SOunds killer.



If the Creamback doesn't work out the Invader would be next on my list!


----------



## JEB

Swede said:


> I only have a 50 watt speaker in mine...No issues at all so far. WGS Invader )Greenback clone)....SOunds killer.



The Celestion Gold in mine is only a 50 W speaker as well. It's been in about 8 months and I haven't had any issues with it, though I never crank it at full power.


----------



## 12barjunkie

JEB said:


> The Celestion Gold in mine is only a 50 W speaker as well. It's been in about 8 months and I haven't had any issues with it, though I never crank it at full power.



I bet that sounds awesome!


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Just installed the Creamback 65, need to get my ears to get used to the different tone. Just like the 70/80 I have to break this speaker in before I can really base my opinion. 

Here is a little sample on OD1 with the speaker 5 minutes out of the box

[SC]https://soundcloud.com/jlagrassa-1/creamback-65-od1[/SC]


----------



## USAPatriot

Well. My attenuator arrived today. What I found inside did not match what I imagined was inside lol.






The wire-wound resistor is in a far different form than I expected and the cap was a complete surprise. -Rod-


----------



## Micky

That's an L-pad with a crossover cap...


----------



## USAPatriot

My 6CA7's also arrived. Does anyone know what the "OTK 2" in purple ink signifies? The date stamp on that tube is 10 05. The other tube is date stamped 12 11 and has no other ink stamping on it. Curious. These are my first 6CA7's and I'm impressed with the hft and construction of them. The internal wiring is straightforward and while obviously not identical to the EL34B's it generally follows the VLVE-00092 wiring scheme without any "odd" connections in it. I thought the face-logo would be better quality though. I can't really tell it's a face. One has a bias point of 77, the other, 78. If I shoot for 38.5mv on the bias, that'll land the tubes in a happy place, I think. -Rod-


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> That's an L-pad with a crossover cap...



Thanks, Micky. And the cap is for...? -Rod-


----------



## J.LaGrassa

USAPatriot said:


> Thanks, Micky. And the cap is for...? -Rod-


That cap will help retain the treble as you use a lot of attenuation, hopefully that works out for you.


----------



## Micky

USAPatriot said:


> My 6CA7's also arrived. Does anyone know what the "OTK 2" in purple ink signifies? The date stamp on that tube is 10 05. The other tube is date stamped 12 11 and has no other ink stamping on it. Curious. These are my first 6CA7's and I'm impressed with the hft and construction of them. The internal wiring is straightforward and while obviously not identical to the EL34B's it generally follows the VLVE-00092 wiring scheme without any "odd" connections in it. I thought the face-logo would be better quality though. I can't really tell it's a face. One has a bias point of 77, the other, 78. If I shoot for 38.5mv on the bias, that'll land the tubes in a happy place, I think. -Rod-


You must have gone bonkers over that TV show 'LOST'...


----------



## Micky

USAPatriot said:


> Thanks, Micky. And the cap is for...? -Rod-



To tailor the frequencies probably.
When you turn the L-Pad down, it probably cuts the treble a lot, so they put the cap there to cut the bass to even it out.


----------



## bman

Please share your results of the speaker soak


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> You must have gone bonkers over that TV show 'LOST'...



I sure did...so much so that I stopped watching after like the 6th week. I'm like, WTF are they doing? Actually I guess I watched longer and stopped when they found that concrete manhole or whatever around the end of the first season.



Micky said:


> To tailor the frequencies probably.
> When you turn the L-Pad down, it probably cuts the treble a lot, so they put the cap there to cut the bass to even it out.



I knew I'd be doing some EQ'ing but I hope this isn't going to be a problem. I have lots of treble to add though. Thanks -Rod-


----------



## USAPatriot

J.LaGrassa said:


> That cap will help retain the treble as you use a lot of attenuation, hopefully that works out for you.





bman said:


> Please share your results of the speaker soak



I should know sometime over the weekend. I want to do the tube swap first, take more photos. Thanks. -Rod-


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Look forward to your results on the attenuator!


----------



## rpinon69

Hello Guys

It's been a while since I've chimed in I am really enjoying this amplifier, but the gearhead in me cannot resist. So I have narrowed in down to two Eminence Man-O-War or Swamp Thang, I prefer high gain tones circa early Metallica, Megadeth, Testament, etc...

I know there's a few of you out there who've tried the Man-O-War how about the Swamp Thang?

Thanks


----------



## Duffy49

rpinon69 said:


> Hello Guys
> 
> It's been a while since I've chimed in I am really enjoying this amplifier, but the gearhead in me cannot resist. So I have narrowed in down to two Eminence Man-O-War or Swamp Thang, I prefer high gain tones circa early Metallica, Megadeth, Testament, etc...
> 
> I know there's a few of you out there who've tried the Man-O-War how about the Swamp Thang?
> 
> Thanks




Ripin' On, I bought an Avatar "vintage" style two by twelve black tolex cab with gold piping and a black "Avatar" logo, with twin Eminence "Swamp Thang" speakers in it and it is a totally remarkable sounding cabinet. I have it hooked up to my DSL100h at present.

The intent of choosing these speakers was to "tame" the so called brightness of the head and at the same time provide the amp with super awesome sounding bass.

The cabinet totally satisfied these two goals for me and has a very cool looking almost "Marshall" Bluesbreaker type vibe going on with the black tolex, black panel above the grill, black "Avatar" logo routed into the panel above the grill, and black grill cloth. It is a beautiful cabinet and the gold piping gives it a very cool vibe.

The sound of the twin Swamp Thangs is a thing of awesome beauty. The Swamp Thang is a very clean sounding speaker and is very articulate, contrary to the preconceived ideas that some may have as to how the speaker will sound. It is also like 150 watts RMS, so you should have plenty of room for pushing the amp and using a powerful sounding overdrive/distortion pedal, boost, etc., without worrying about blowing the speaker when cranked.

It is a great deal better sounding than any cab I have ever owned. Bass, mids, and treble sound very well balanced and clearly "present" with these speakers. It handles clean and overdriven sounds remarkably well, and is very satisfying to my ear.

I would recommend the Swamp Thang without hesitation or any type of apprehension. I am very confident in the reliability of these speakers for my uses.

Good luck man, and let 'er "rip".


----------



## rpinon69

Duffy49 said:


> Ripin' On, I bought an Avatar "vintage" style two by twelve black tolex cab with gold piping and a black "Avatar" logo, with twin Eminence "Swamp Thang" speakers in it and it is a totally remarkable sounding cabinet. I have it hooked up to my DSL100h at present.
> 
> The intent of choosing these speakers was to "tame" the so called brightness of the head and at the same time provide the amp with super awesome sounding bass.
> 
> The cabinet totally satisfied these two goals for me and has a very cool looking almost "Marshall" Bluesbreaker type vibe going on with the black tolex, black panel above the grill, black "Avatar" logo routed into the panel above the grill, and black grill cloth. It is a beautiful cabinet and the gold piping gives it a very cool vibe.
> 
> The sound of the twin Swamp Thangs is a thing of awesome beauty. The Swamp Thang is a very clean sounding speaker and is very articulate, contrary to the preconceived ideas that some may have as to how the speaker will sound. It is also like 150 watts RMS, so you should have plenty of room for pushing the amp and using a powerful sounding overdrive/distortion pedal, boost, etc., without worrying about blowing the speaker when cranked.
> 
> It is a great deal better sounding than any cab I have ever owned. Bass, mids, and treble sound very well balanced and clearly "present" with these speakers. It handles clean and overdriven sounds remarkably well, and is very satisfying to my ear.
> 
> I would recommend the Swamp Thang without hesitation or any type of apprehension. I am very confident in the reliability of these speakers for my uses.
> 
> Good luck man, and let 'er "rip".



Thanks for the feedback!

At first I was leaning towards the ST but after reading some reviews and listening to the sound clips on the Eminence website, I didn't really find anything to make me change my mind. They didn't really have a sample for the type of tone I am looking and the fact that MOW is from the RedCoat line and supposedly versed for Metal I thought that might be a good choice.


----------



## Micky

MOW is what I have in mine now.
There isn't too much difference to my ear between the Texas Heat, Swamp Thang and the Man-O-War. Just enough to make it worthwhile.

But either way, you can't go wrong.

I have a 4X12 filled with ST, as well as another 4X12 filled with TH. Tey both are incredible. Did I mention how much I love Eminence speakers?


----------



## Jws

There is probably an answer to my question somewhere in the forum but i haven't found it yet. Is there a mod or a way that i'm missing to switch between modes on the classic gain channel only? I absolutely live in and love the classic gain channel with the crunch function engaged but i also need a clean tone from time to time too. Ive read herein where one might approximate the green crunch tone using the ultra channel. But, at least to my ears, the ultra channel sounds more narrow, focused and compressed with a crazy amount of gain on tap, whereas the green crunch tone has more head room and is generally more open sounding. I like running the classic gain between 12 o'clock and 3 o'clock for rhythm. It cleans up very well with my Paul's volume knob. If i want to goose it with a fuzz or overdrive for soloing, i get more delivery from the pedal if its on the classic gain channel.
Thoughts??


----------



## rpinon69

Micky

You do dig those Eminence speakers! The reviews I have read on various forums and online dealers are 90% positive because of course we know you can't please everyone, but from an economic standpoint their only two thirds the cost of most Celestions. So I have to say that it is definitely worth looking into!

So should I go with a 8 or 16 ohm?


----------



## kingbee

I'm going to try a WGS Reaper HP.


----------



## AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing

Hey boys. Amp came a couple days ago, only unboxed it yesterday, seems fine (remember this thing was "blemished"). Anyway, when you talk about "breaking the speaker in", how loud do you need to play for that to happen? In terms of actual volume knob settings. Im used to playing at lower volumes just cause, if i need to crank it louder than i normally would (i.e not very loud at all), let me know


----------



## guitarman8

You use the clean channel and turn up the bass and mids to full, slap around with allot of low end bar chords. Pretty boring but that's how you break it in fast.


----------



## Micky

AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing said:


> Hey boys. Amp came a couple days ago, only unboxed it yesterday, seems fine (remember this thing was "blemished"). Anyway, when you talk about "breaking the speaker in", how loud do you need to play for that to happen? In terms of actual volume knob settings. Im used to playing at lower volumes just cause, if i need to crank it louder than i normally would (i.e not very loud at all), let me know



Just keep playing.


----------



## GlennB

Hi all. Tube Newb here.
I just became the proud owner of a new DSL40C. This is my first tube amp after having several SS amps including Laney, Peavey & Marshall SS amps.
I have a question relating to the speaker output jacks.
The combo came from the factory with the internal speaker plugged into the 16ohm jack. According to the manual (yes, I read the manual) this switches out the 2 remaining 8ohm jacks. I want to run the amp into my Marshall 1922, 2 x 12" cabinet, which is 8ohm. I want the internal combo speaker to work at the same time. ie, 3 x 12".
Can I plug the internal speaker into the 8ohm jack and my cab into the other 8ohm jack, leaving the 16ohm jack empty?
Thanks in advance and apologies if this has been asked before.
Glenn


----------



## Micky

That is a mis-match Glenn.
You need to plug 2 16-ohm speakers into the 8-ohm jacks to have a proper load.


----------



## GlennB

Thanks Micky, much appreciated mate.
I'll need to give that some thought to figure how I can go about that. My cab has a 16ohm stereo input that I might be able to utilise. I take it that the combo speaker is 16ohms? Doesn't seem to be written anywhere in the manual. 
Thanks again.
Glenn

EDIT
I looked into it a bit and can see how it wont work how I planned it. The extension cab has 2 speakers which must be 16ohm units in parallel to give 8ohms. Putting them in series will give 32ohms which doesn't help. Seems it's the combo speaker OR the cab, not both.


----------



## Micky

Run the cab in stereo mode (one speaker per 16-ohm input) as well as the internal plugged into both 8-ohm outputs on the amp.
Should sound killer. The second non-used speaker should act as a passive radiator, adding a TON of thump to your tone.
Make sure you use unshielded speaker cables.


----------



## GlennB

I think I understand what you are saying but would like to clarify.

On the 1922 Cab> Use the "right input" 16ohm jack. Leave the "left input" vacant. Plug this into an 8ohm output on the amp.

Amp> Plug the internal speaker into the other 8ohm output.

So: In regards the amp, Both 8ohm output jacks are used and the 16ohm output jack is left vacant.

This will give me 1 speaker working in the cab plus the internal speaker in the combo, with the non-working cab speaker acting as an awesome passive reactor?

Thanks again Mikey. I really appreciate your experience here.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Here is clip I recorded just playing to a backing track, its the DSL40C with the Creamback 65. I used my PRS McCarty straight into the amp and a little delay in the loop. Never played to this track before so there are a few clams but it was fun playing to it, I recorded it with my Tascam DR-05 about 2 feet away from the amp and the backing track was coming out of a speaker next to my amp. only thing I did was normalized the level and added some compression after it was recorded.


----------



## USAPatriot

J.LaGrassa said:


> Never played to this track before so there are a few clams but it was fun playing to it, I recorded it with my Tascam DR-05 about 2 feet away from the amp and the backing track was coming out of a speaker next to my amp. only thing I did was normalized the level and added some compression after it was recorded.
> 
> [SC]https://soundcloud.com/jlagrassa-1/slow-jam[/SC]



Nice Pitrelli sound there, J! -Rod-


----------



## AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing

guitarman8 said:


> You use the clean channel and turn up the bass and mids to full, slap around with allot of low end bar chords. Pretty boring but that's how you break it in fast.



Thanks. How loud would you set volume/gain on that channel for this? How many total hours of this type of playing do you think it needs before it's "broken in?" Also consider the previous (albeit very brief) owner may have broken it in already.


----------



## Laces

Hi guys!!

Sorry if this has been asked and answered already but I cant find a good concisive answer anywhere!!

I am the proud owner of a brilliant DSL401, I replaced the stock speaker with a Retro 30 and it sounds great,much better than before, its very smooth and creamy.

But how much does the 40Cs tone differ from the 401? I know they have different tubes so will it have a punchier, more aggressive and raunchy sound?
I want a more aggressive bite in my tone now,more crisp and sharp whereas my 401 sounds quite soft.

Plus I heard EL34 tubes give the best Marshall sound too.B-)


----------



## USAPatriot

My tube swap to a pair of EH 6CA7's was a bomb. The absolute lowest I could get them biased in at was 58 and 68mv respectively for V5 and V6.

After installation the voltage was down at 424V on each side, measured at pin 3, and the initial bias was 80 and 90mv. Scrambling to get the bias lower, the voltage increased to 450V and stabilized there. Many times I found myself trying to bias by ear, listening to the hum and trying to zero it while adjusting each side down. That worked in getting the values down but ultimately the pots are turned as far as I can get them, the smell coming from the tubes is not good (though they are not red-plating) and they are nowhere close to being balanced, like I said, 58 and 68mv. Any thoughts besides pulling them and sending them back? They have to cool before I can pull them, it's only mid afternoon so I have time. I'm REALLY disappointed...and little pissed and pretty damned stressed too. -Rod-

EDIT: I DID check my setup before I started work. The PV on the outgoing EL-34B's was 456V each and the bias on both was in the 37's, right where I left them.


----------



## Micky

So what made you think that they were drop-in replacements?
Wouldn't something like a KT-66 be more appropriate?
You can probably make them work, but you would need to modify the bias circuitry to do it with that particular set.
Have you contacted the place where you bought them? (I know, stupid question...)

Also - and this is my opinion - EH tubes are shit.
Also - the DSL40c was designed for EL34 finals and 12AX7 preamp tubes. You may void your warranty by straying from that path...


----------



## USAPatriot

Every thread I'd read on it said they were interchangable, Micky. I even told the guy at the dealer when I ordered them that if they were not appropriate for the DSL40C to not process the order. His reply, "The 6CA7 is a direct replacement for the EL34. Shouldn't be a problem. " His reply follows what pretty much everyone on THIS forum has been saying...and as I've talked about it over the last 10 days or so, not one person has said, "Hold on there, man...". Including you.
So...I'm at a loss, especially since the 6CA7 is supposed to just be the American designation for an EL34B. -Rod-


----------



## USAPatriot

http://www.marshallforum.com/workbench/16651-6ca7-vs-el34.html#post175165



MartyStrat54 said:


> That depends on the pair or the quad. There is a low and high point for bias that the tube manufacturers will accept. However, for the most part a 6CA7 will bias right up. Keep in mind that a 6CA7 is also known as an EL34 and vice versa. Most of the time the tubes are labeled EL34/6CA7 and are sold side by side on the online tube stores.


----------



## Micky

If I recall correctly, doesn't EH rate their power tubes? Like 1-5 or something?
Maybe this set is a higher gain set that draws more current than a differently rated set, I dunno.

Same sort of thing happened to me when Marty sent me a 12BH7 for my DSL5c, I couldn't get it to bias as low as the original. Maybe it is a hotter tube or something.

Bottom line - How does this set sound? How much clean headroom?

But the bigger question is, what are the downsides to using these tubes at this level of bias? What does the Weber bias calculator say about these tubes as far as persentage settings?


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> If I recall correctly, doesn't EH rate their power tubes? Like 1-5 or something?
> Maybe this set is a higher gain set that draws more current than a differently rated set, I dunno.
> 
> Same sort of thing happened to me when Marty sent me a 12BH7 for my DSL5c, I couldn't get it to bias as low as the original. Maybe it is a hotter tube or something.
> 
> Bottom line - How does this set sound? How much clean headroom?
> 
> But the bigger question is, what are the downsides to using these tubes at this level of bias? What does the Weber bias calculator say about these tubes as far as persentage settings?



It doesn't matter. Even at the lowest bias setting I can manage, the smell coming from the tubes is screaming a warning to me, like the EL-34B's cranked and then some. And a 10 point spread, minimum, in the values can't be good either. I've run some tubes with a 2 or 3mv spread with what 'might' be called an improvement in the depth of the tone, but 10 seems too much, and these levels are just far too high. I did manage to get one down as low as 48mv but the other was up at 90 and wouldn't come down without pushing the other up. My guitar was plugged in but I sure didn't think to try playing. Pushing the tubes probably would have taken out the amp. I was also in triode mode and the volumes were all down. -Rod-


----------



## solarburn

gibguy said:


> Solar, Did you ever sort out your issue with the amp? Curious because now mine seems to have those exact same symptoms now. Amp seems anemic with no real punch and treble is getting way to high. Had been running treble at about 4 1/2 and now all the way down to 1.5 Also seem to have lost 2nd order harmonic feedback. Now I hold a note and it turns to an ungodly feedback that isn't musical at all just pierces my ears yikes. Shouldn't be power tubes I just replaced those with TAD EL34 BSTR. Figuring must be in the pre amp tubes?



Mines still trebly. I've made it Playable using my MXR 108 eq in front of it and putting a darker V2 BP in it. These are bandaid fixes though.

Sweetwater has a 2 year warranty I can use but I have to pay shipping to get t fixed or replaced since past the 30 day grace period.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

USAPatriot said:


> It doesn't matter. Even at the lowest bias setting I can manage, the smell coming from the tubes is screaming a warning to me, like the EL-34B's cranked and then some. And a 10 point spread, minimum, in the values can't be good either. I've run some tubes with a 2 or 3mv spread with what 'might' be called an improvement in the depth of the tone, but 10 seems too much, and these levels are just far too high. I did manage to get one down as low as 48mv but the other was up at 90 and wouldn't come down without pushing the other up. My guitar was plugged in but I sure didn't think to try playing. Pushing the tubes probably would have taken out the amp. I was also in triode mode and the volumes were all down. -Rod-



Should you be in pentode mode when biasing? Isn't the PV cut in half in triode mode? I dunno, that's why I'm asking!


----------



## solarburn

USAPatriot said:


> It doesn't matter. Even at the lowest bias setting I can manage, the smell coming from the tubes is screaming a warning to me, like the EL-34B's cranked and then some. And a 10 point spread, minimum, in the values can't be good either. I've run some tubes with a 2 or 3mv spread with what 'might' be called an improvement in the depth of the tone, but 10 seems too much, and these levels are just far too high. I did manage to get one down as low as 48mv but the other was up at 90 and wouldn't come down without pushing the other up. My guitar was plugged in but I sure didn't think to try playing. Pushing the tubes probably would have taken out the amp. I was also in triode mode and the volumes were all down. -Rod-



I can get my EH6CA7'S to bias fine. My problem with them is reliability. Either they pop or drift too much.

They are drop in replacements for 34's meaning they should work.

Somethings wrong with your set if they wont bias. Shouldn't smell like that either.


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky, in answer to your question about what the Weber Bias Calculator says, the answer is, 38.8mv, exactly the same as the EL34. Sumfin wrong wit deez bitchez! And YES, I did the stupid and obvious thing and contacted the seller and NO, EH doesn't rate their tubes in any way you suggest. Tube Amp Doctor (TAD) does the 1-5 bit while Tube Depot gives you a "bias point". My understanding is that in both cases, they are simply reference points that supposedly allow you to simply buy what you bought (and biased to) before and dropping the new tubes in without re-biasing. 

Myself, I'd never swap power tubes without a re-bias, not without a written guarantee from the seller that he'll replace my amp if it goes tits up after following their system. 

I've already pulled the 6CA7's and will rebias the old set back in after dinner. These obviously aren't going to work out and Eric won't be replying until sometime tomorrow, I'm sure. 

*Jethro-Rocker*, y'know I wondered the same thing when I put my last set in, so I ran tests on both plate voltage and bias in both modes, triode and pentode. The exact figures are upstairs on my pad, but the difference between the two was minimal, like 1%. Good question, though  -Rod-


----------



## Micky

Jethro Rocker said:


> Should you be in pentode mode when biasing? Isn't the PV cut in half in triode mode? I dunno, that's why I'm asking!



Shouldn't matter. PV is the same either way.
All it does is tie the extra 2 grids to ground.


----------



## Micky

USAPatriot said:


> Micky, in answer to your question about what the Weber Bias Calculator says, the answer is, 38.8mv, exactly the same as the EL34. Sumfin wrong wit deez bitchez! And YES, I did the stupid and obvious thing and contacted the seller and NO, EH doesn't rate their tubes in any way you suggest. Tube Amp Doctor (TAD) does the 1-5 bit while Tube Depot gives you a "bias point". My understanding is that in both cases, they are simply reference points that supposedly allow you to simply buy what you bought (and biased to) before and dropping the new tubes in without re-biasing.
> 
> Myself, I'd never swap power tubes without a re-bias, not without a written guarantee from the seller that he'll replace my amp if it goes tits up after following their system.
> 
> I've already pulled the 6CA7's and will rebias the old set back in after dinner. These obviously aren't going to work out and Eric won't be replying until sometime tomorrow, I'm sure.
> 
> *Jethro-Rocker*, y'know I wondered the same thing when I put my last set in, so I ran tests on both plate voltage and bias in both modes, triode and pentode. The exact figures are upstairs on my pad, but the difference between the two was minimal, like 1%. Good question, though  -Rod-



So it sounds like you got a set that is different enough from the OEM tubes that you can't use them. So sad.

SB50 - What brand are your 6CA7's? Any additional info on them?


----------



## USAPatriot

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I can get my EH6CA7'S to bias fine. My problem with them is reliability. Either they pop or drift too much.
> 
> They are drop in replacements for 34's meaning they should work.
> 
> Somethings wrong with your set if they wont bias. Shouldn't smell like that either.



My thoughts exactly, Solar. The smell, fortunately, is just coming from the tubes and not the board. I had to stick my head down underneath to smell it...very strong and very hot...but still not red plated. If I knew the circuits could handle it and IF I could get them balanced and IF I had a small exhaust fan, I might try playing through them...the theory being the worst that could happen is that I'd only lose the tubes. But that's not the case. Heat rises and there's not enough moving air to protect the board. Hopefully Eric will have an answer that'll satisfy me. -Rod-


----------



## Coronado

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Mines still trebly. I've made it Playable using my MXR 108 eq in front of it and putting a darker V2 BP in it. These are bandaid fixes though.





solarburnDSL50 said:


> Sweetwater has a 2 year warranty I can use but I have to pay shipping to get t fixed or replaced since past the 30 day grace period.




Hey Solar - Hope all is well my friend! I was surprised that you were having issues with treble - even with the darker Ruby AC7 HG+? Since I tried your recommendation on tubes, along with swapping out the speaker, it is a whole new amp! (thanks again for the advice!). Put in new power and preamp tubes as well, and I find the only pedals I like to use with it are some reverb, and the occasional chrous and delay. Anything beyond 3-4 on the volume (red channel, gain on 5) and that amp is a frickin' BEAST! I love it. With each turn of the volume knob it gets stronger and heavier. At lower volumes I will add either the SD1 or 808 (no gain, 1/2 way on volume) just for a little extra bite. Anything beyond the 1/2 to 3/4 point on the gain on the red channel and it gets a tad sloppy. The clean channel is fantastic as well. I stopped using my Fender blues jr for cleans!

Thanks again brother!


----------



## USAPatriot

Well, I put the Marshall tubes back in and it all biased right up. Interestingly, the PV was higher by 9V over what it was this afternoon. It's miniscule, I know, but y'all know me...I gotta ask WHY that should be. I managed to bias both tubes to 38.7 <-> 38.8. Neither one holds absolutely steady. 

I also noted something else...the circuit becomes dead quiet, as heard through the speakers with no input, when the tubes are biased about 3 or 4mv apart. There's a slight hum I can hear when the values are balanced or very close, but it's virtually silent when they are off by that 3 or 4mv, relative to each other. Any thoughts as to why that might be and whether it's a good thing/bad thing? One might argue that the hum is there when the two tubes are working together optimally, producing the most gain. On the otherhand, one could argue the opposite, that a silent circuit means the tubes are at their optimum, producing no excess. -Rod-


----------



## Micky

Well all I can do is TRY to explain things, and Rod, I am certain that won't be enough...

Your Power Transformer (PT) can put out a fixed maximum of power.
When you draw current the voltage will drop a bit from the idle voltage.
When you draw more current than usual, the voltage will drop even more.
Think of the PT as a water pump and the wires as a garden hose attached to the pump...

The hum you hear when things are unbalanced is called crossover distortion, and can be measured on a scope. Many techs bias an amp by this method, and as you have figured out, sometimes a balanced amp has different bias readings for each side of a class A/B amp. And yes, they shouldn't vary by much at all, perhaps 1% or less between similar tubes. This is why it is critical to get matched sets for a 100W amp (or an amp with 4 or more finals) Bias in a 2-tube A/B amp is more about balance than equality.


----------



## USAPatriot

Actually that was perfect. I'm a bit brain damaged, not stupid 

So in this case, I'm better off using my ears and dropping the voltage a bit on one, letting it run a bit colder? I can live with 36 and 39, roughly, I think. -Rod-


----------



## Micky

USAPatriot said:


> Actually that was perfect. I'm a bit brain damaged, not stupid
> 
> So in this case, I'm better off using my ears and dropping the voltage a bit on one, letting it run a bit colder? I can live with 36 and 39, roughly, I think. -Rod-



In a word, yes.

But if you want my real opinion, you should just stop sweating the small stuff and play the shit outta that amp. If you spent as much time playing as you do worrying about various aspects of its operation, you would be a virtuoso by now. (not kidding...)

But there is one thing - You are to be admired for your persistence. My only hope is that you can continue to learn and then pass on whatever you can to others.


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> In a word, yes.
> 
> But if you want my real opinion, you should just stop sweating the small stuff and play the shit outta that amp. If you spent as much time playing as you do worrying about various aspects of its operation, you would be a virtuoso by now. (not kidding...)
> 
> But there is one thing - You are to be admired for your persistence. My only hope is that you can continue to learn and then pass on whatever you can to others.



Actually, I like to think I can do both. I can be anal and I can play it too. As it happens, I rolled a few preamp tubes but it didn't work out. One was a Tungsol in V2, which is likely alright, and a 2005 Sovtek 12AX7WC which is just out and out microphonic. Bummer. It sounded good taking into account the extraneous noise from fans and something else making a whooshing sound. It was definitely different from the stock setup. Should I toss another Tungsol in V3 to replace the WC? It's an old Fender tube. 

I learn by *doing*, BTW. It's the way of my world. -Rod-


----------



## Micky

V3 is where the EQ is wired, in MY opinion that tube needs to be a quiet, balanced and full-fidelity tube. Hi-Fi if you will. Higher gain tubes should be reserved to V2, which is strictly a gain stage.

Ask Marty or Alan for their recommendations if you want the most experienced opinion.

My V3 is a JAN GE 12AX7WA NOS tube I got from Marty, but I am certain a decent CP tube will perform well.


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> V3 is where the EQ is wired, in MY opinion that tube needs to be a quiet, balanced and full-fidelity tube. Hi-Fi if you will. Higher gain tubes should be reserved to V2, which is strictly a gain stage.
> 
> Ask Marty or Alan for their recommendations if you want the most experienced opinion.
> 
> My V3 is a JAN GE 12AX7WA NOS tube I got from Marty, but I am certain a decent CP tube will perform well.



Yeah, no dinero for NOS tubes. I was just looking at the JJ 12AX7WA/B/C's and am not sure if the stock Marshall...Mullard...is as good a choice as any of them. I've got a whole bag of Marshalls sitting upstairs lol. -Rod-


----------



## J.LaGrassa

I still have all JJ tubes in mine 4xJJ ECC83S & JJ E34L power tubes, amp stays tight on the lows and solid mids and less harsh on the top end.... amp is very quiet as well. I stopped playing with tubes I just flip the switch and rock out


----------



## Jethro Rocker

USAPatriot said:


> Yeah, no dinero for NOS tubes. I was just looking at the JJ 12AX7WA/B/C's and am not sure if the stock Marshall...Mullard...is as good a choice as any of them. I've got a whole bag of Marshalls sitting upstairs lol. -Rod-



Rod, unless you've got OLD Marshall tubes, they will not be Mullards. The current ones from my DSL are Chinese. A Mullard would be good though.... it'll cost!


----------



## USAPatriot

Jethro Rocker said:


> Rod, unless you've got OLD Marshall tubes, they will not be Mullards. The current ones from my DSL are Chinese. A Mullard would be good though.... it'll cost!



Jethro, the word from Marshall USA is that these are Mullards...and Mullards are rebranded Russian tubes. Blackburn is long gone. I know...people here say that the Marshall's are Shuguangs, so there's a conflict in information. -Rod-


----------



## Micky

USAPatriot said:


> Jethro, the word from Marshall USA is that these are Mullards...and Mullards are rebranded Russian tubes. Blackburn is long gone. I know...people here say that the Marshall's are Shuguangs, so there's a conflict in information. -Rod-



This is news...


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## Jethro Rocker

Huh. Mine say made in China on 'em. If they are rebranded Russian, then they are Sovtek/Svetlana/JJs Tung Sol etc with a Mullard stamp, no...? Or are they using the Mullard re-issue tubes?


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> This is news...





Jethro Rocker said:


> Huh. Mine say made in China on 'em. If they are rebranded Russian, then they are Sovtek/Svetlana/JJs Tung Sol etc with a Mullard stamp, no...? Or are they using the Mullard re-issue tubes?



It's what Kevin at Marshall told me. None of my Marshall tubes say made in anything on them. Not one. I think he said Mullard reissue but can't be sure. I probably still have his email so will look today. -Rod-


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Well I might hafta check mine again and make sure I didn't mix 'em up. Might wanna use some of those somewhere then! Thanks for that! I may be thinking of the ones from the 6100, I should really pay more attention before I post. Either way, didn't know they used Mullard reissues!


----------



## USAPatriot

Well shit:



> Thanks for the email. Yes, that is a very high rated set (The 6CA7's -Rod). The rating is taken at 400V on the plate and is the current across the plates. If you can set them up accordingly, yes, they would be very hot. If they will not work out for you, you may return them for exchange for a cooler pair. Let us know if we can be of assistance.
> Thanks,


----------



## USAPatriot

Okay, this is what Kevin at Marshall had to say, but bear in mind that we were only and specifically talking about the Marshall branded tubes with the Marshall # VLVE-00101. Maybe it also applies to the 00092's and others, maybe not! From June 3rd, 2014:



> Hey Rod,
> 
> These tubes are a TAD that looks to be a Mullard reissue EL34. Hope this helps and enjoy the amp!


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Sweet! I was talking about the 12AX7. Thanks for that info! I'm gonna leave the EL34s alone!
I lied... it was the ones from the 6100 that are Chinese. The originals from the 40C are absolutely identical to the JJ ECC83s except the plates are silver instead of grey. Otherwise exactly the same, which, incidentally, is the same as one of my Mesa tubes, obviously made by JJ.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Jethro Rocker said:


> Sweet! I was talking about the 12AX7. Thanks for that info! I'm gonna leave the EL34s alone!
> I lied... it was the ones from the 6100 that are Chinese. The originals from the 40C are absolutely identical to the JJ ECC83s except the plates are silver instead of grey. Otherwise exactly the same, which, incidentally, is the same as one of my Mesa tubes, obviously made by JJ.



The JJECC83S with the grey plates do sound different than the Marshall (JJ's 90067) silver plates the Marshall version sound brighter and a bit more aggressive to my ears, I like the JJ's I get from Eurotubes with the grey plates better.


----------



## USAPatriot

Jethro Rocker said:


> Sweet! I was talking about the 12AX7. Thanks for that info! I'm gonna leave the EL34s alone!
> I lied... it was the ones from the 6100 that are Chinese. The originals from the 40C are absolutely identical to the JJ ECC83s except the plates are silver instead of grey. Otherwise exactly the same, which, incidentally, is the same as one of my Mesa tubes, obviously made by JJ.



My thought exactly, Jethro. The preamp tubes all but have JJ written on them. The design is the same, only the finish of the anodes is different. I'd be curious to know how the stainless or chrome (whatever it is) finish differs in performance compared to the grey or charcoal plates. Is it a money saving thing maybe or is it doing something different? Or maybe it's just a Marshall thing. Somewhere I did see a silver plated tube out there that wasn't branded as a Marshall but I can't recall where. -Rod-


----------



## USAPatriot

J.LaGrassa said:


> The JJECC83S with the grey plated do sound different than the Marshall (JJ's 90067) silver plates the Marshall version sound brighter and a bit more aggressive to my ears, I like the JJ's I get from Eurotubes with the grey plates better.



Tonally they remind me of the Chinese 12AX7b's that came in my Blackstar HT-40, but those tubes were absolute junk, definitely not Marshall or JJ quality tubes though they do have triple mica. I think I still have a few of them...


----------



## USAPatriot

I dialed the hum out of the power tubes this afternoon and I have a little less than a 2mv spread between the two tubes at 38.8 and 36.9-ish. I also took out the old Fender tube since it was microphonic. I replaced it with a stock Marshall tube and noticed that the Tungsol seemed a little weak in that department too, with a whooshing sound popping up intermittently. I put another stock Marshall tube in it's place and it cleared up. While I was there, I decided to try something different. These came out of my JCA22H but they never fit well in there. One broke loose and ricocheted around the inside of the head a few years back. They fit nice and snug in this chassis though. I don't know that they are actually needed here but they won't do any harm either. Just about the time I was putting everything back together a thunderstorm blew into town, so I'm waiting until it clears out before I play. -Rod-


----------



## USAPatriot

My Rig!


----------



## solarburn

Been playn my strat with mine. Not bad man. I'm adjusting amp tone stack and another eq in front finding some good stuff.


----------



## Swede

I just bought a Sylvania Long plate that will go in my P.I slot and get rid of the Stock tube. And a Mullard 12ax7 for V1 that will replace a RCA greyplate.........All my other spots already have RCA blackplates and grey plates....Stoked. should arrive next week.


----------



## Duffy49

USAPatriot said:


> (whatever it is) -Rod-



Patriot, when you had those mismatched EL34 equivalent tubes in there and you smelled smoke, have you considered that smoke is the result of a cause. There was a cause and an effect - the effect was the smoke.

Hopefully he smoke was just the paint burning off the tubes; otherwise there may have been some other cause of the smoke, which could surface later.

I know we all want to mod things and improve them, but with this amp it seems like staying in the middle of the road on the power tubes, etc., might be a good idea. It seems like some guys blew into the thread with 40c's and went on and on about all their mods until it came to the point that they got rid of the amp. It makes me wonder if too much undereducated/underexperienced jacking around may have lead to them jacking up their amps to the point that they were personally unable to get them back under control. Cause (too much underexperienced jacking around); effect (amp jacked up beyond individuals capability to deal with).

This observation may or may not merit any value, but it seems that dudes that have been prudent in their mods, thorough in their testing throughout, and well educated in what they were doing (or having reached out to those that they trust are well experienced and have a lot of expertise), have had the greatest success in yielding more satisfactory performance from their amps.

It seems like leaving the amp stock, or having a real good amp man do the tube swaps and biasing or other seemingly simple modifications, might be a wise approach.

This, of course, costs more money, but we paid good money for our amps to begin with and presumably want to protect our investments. Spending a few extra dollars and having a real good amp man work on the amp makes a lot of sense.

Optimally, we all should know how to work on our own amps. I want to learn how to change the power tubes and bias my own amps, to include periodically checking the bias. Around here having someone do these things is costly. I think I might try doing this with one of my less expensive amps. I have a real good amp guy around here and I have a Crate Palomino V32 212 (the big one with cream tolex an gold trim, a wheat grill cloth, and a gold "V32" on the front) that is a real nice amp that I wouldn't mind doing some work on. 

My amp guy thinks it would be a good amp to mod. It works well now but has some minor noises that could be just about anything from dirty jacks to dirty pots or buttons. The amp sounds super good though and I got it from Crate at no cost on an exchange for a V50 new under warranty that turned out to be mainly junk and irrepairable. I got a much nicer brand new amp. 

Incidentally, I really liked the V50. It had great tone and a great overdrive sound. 

The Palomino weighs a ton but I really want to learn how to do some things to it. He will teach me how to replace the tubes with good ones and bias it. I will buy the necessary equipment to do a good bias job. He might also want to modify some other stuff on it.

I don't plan on messing with my 40c until I have developed some decent expertise. The dudes at Marshall definitely know more about what they are doing than I do.

You may be quite an expert in your own right, and maybe you can get to the bottom of where you are trying to go. Good luck with it. But don't forget, there are some real good amp guys out there that might be able to reach the point you are trying to reach with a lot less effort and overall cost.


----------



## Micky

Swede said:


> I just bought a Sylvania Long plate that will go in my P.I slot and get rid of the Stock tube. And a Mullard 12ax7 for V1 that will replace a RCA greyplate.........All my other spots already have RCA blackplates and grey plates....Stoked. should arrive next week.



You will love the tubes you get from Marty. Dude knows his shit for sure.
Best thing is, these NOS preamp tubes will live longer than you or I...
This is the configuration I have for my 40c, except for a JAN in V3.


----------



## Micky

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Been playn my strat with mine. Not bad man. I'm adjusting amp tone stack and another eq in front finding some good stuff.



Do you have an LP to play thru it?

I am finding some vastly different EQ settings on each type of guitar in order to get the sound I want...


----------



## USAPatriot

Duffy49 said:


> Patriot, when you had those mismatched EL34 equivalent tubes in there and you smelled smoke, have you considered that smoke is the result of a cause. There was a cause and an effect - the effect was the smoke.



Duffy.

There was no smoke. Stench, yes, but it was the stench of heat, not something burning. Thanks for the thoughtful post though. It was a good read. -Rod-


----------



## Duffy49

USAPatriot said:


> Duffy.
> 
> There was no smoke. Stench, yes, but it was the stench of heat, not something burning. Thanks for the thoughtful post though. It was a good read. -Rod-



Hopefully you'll be alright and that heat didn't wear on anything other than the tube itself.

Good luck with it. It is a very cool amp.


----------



## USAPatriot

Duffy49 said:


> Hopefully you'll be alright and that heat didn't wear on anything other than the tube itself.
> 
> Good luck with it. It is a very cool amp.



It seems to be fine, Duffy. I played for an hour last night with no issues. Long term? I try not to get into existentialism since there's just no way to say if any stress was put on the circuits and if it goes tits up in 5 years, whether or not this incident had anything to do with it. While I was smelling the tubes I was also looking at the board and sniffing it. Nothing. I checked for bubbling on resistors and caps, discoloration on traces. Nothing. Time will tell. Right now it's fine but my midrange honk is back so I need to EQ it out. A shame since the level of crunch and the feel of it is real nice. I pulled a bunch of treble out which is probably most of the problem. -Rod-


----------



## solarburn

Micky said:


> Do you have an LP to play thru it?
> 
> I am finding some vastly different EQ settings on each type of guitar in order to get the sound I want...



No LP Micky. My Ec1000 has passives Super Distortion for those great Marshall rock tones. My Strat sounds twangy even with the HB bridge. The single coils neck/middle combos sound very cool. I am enhancing certain mid frequencies with my 10 band. Brings them up front a bit more.

I agree. My ESP, Tele(HH) and Strat(HSS)sound different EQ wise. I like that they do cause I don't want the same character tones out of them. I think a twangy Marshall sounds tits in the right context.

One of these days I get a LP!


----------



## Swede

I just did the C19 mod.....Gonna slap it together and see whats happening.....Whats the deal with C4 and C5 for the clean/crunch channel?


----------



## Swede

I jus want to say....My marshall went from good to mutha fukkin great......FUKK YEAH!....What the F was Marshall thinking installing that bright cap?????

Now it sounds like a pure CLASSIC Marshall all of a sudden, and as many of you have said, now the two channels correlate perfectly...

FUKK YEAH!


----------



## Micky

I ended up lowering mine from 470 down to 100 or so, with my Man-O-War speaker it is the perfect combination. Glad you found out how nice this amp can be. Now play the shit out of it!


----------



## rpinon69

After a little over a month with this amp had the bias checked and each tube was at 25 are they always set so low at the factory. Bumped them up to 38 WOW what a difference.


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> I ended up lowering mine from 470 down to 100 or so, with my Man-O-War speaker it is the perfect combination. Glad you found out how nice this amp can be. Now play the shit out of it!



What exactly did the 100 or so give you? Just less fizz or a happy medium you could live with or something more tonal? I clipped mine and am happy with it.

Did anyone notice that Marshall changed the design of both C-19 and C-20? The legs used to be equal. Now there's one nice, long one that makes an inviting target lol.

What happens if C-20 is clipped? Are the two cascaded or no? I assume from the schematic that it's attached to the crunch channel but I don't know if there's some crossover, additive effect. If it's clipped, what? More clean overhead, less crunch? Less treble? It seems like it's the elephant in the room, albeit just a small one. -Rod-


----------



## USAPatriot

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Been playn my strat with mine. Not bad man. I'm adjusting amp tone stack and another eq in front finding some good stuff.



A guy brought his '87 Strat over today to test drive my (now his...) Jet City JCA22H. I loved the guitar though it looks like his fingerboard is maybe too worn. I didn't look at the frets, but he was having trouble with bends where the wood's been worn away. Still, the body and neck is in otherwise top notch condition.

And my Les Paul sounds better thru the amp too lol -Rod-


----------



## mickeydg5

The 100pF or something around that value will give just enough high pass at lower gain/volume. The sound is more natural, if that is a good word to describe, relative to volume knob placement like on the CLASSIC GAIN knob or classic volume controls.


----------



## USAPatriot

mickeydg5 said:


> The 100pF or something around that value will give just enough high pass at lower gain/volume. The sound is more natural, if that is a good word to describe, relative to volume knob placement like on the CLASSIC GAIN knob or classic volume controls.



Gotcha. Red2 seems very touchy gain-wise. Will the smaller 100pf cap help that versus the 470 or no cap at all? Or maybe just a different pot is needed. Even if it didn't go as high, I'd love to have more control over the gain. There's tons more gain there than I need...or most anyone else, I suspect. 
And what of C-20? If it wasn't so cramped in there I might cut it just to find out, but I'm not that brave lol -Rod-


----------



## J.LaGrassa

USAPatriot said:


> Gotcha. Red2 seems very touchy gain-wise. Will the smaller 100pf cap help that versus the 470 or no cap at all? Or maybe just a different pot is needed. Even if it didn't go as high, I'd love to have more control over the gain. There's tons more gain there than I need...or most anyone else, I suspect.
> And what of C-20? If it wasn't so cramped in there I might cut it just to find out, but I'm not that brave lol -Rod-




If you clip C20 I think it would be to muddy with out that cap in there when using Lead 2 at lower gain levels, I still have not found a need to clip or change C19. when I do have Lead 1 gain set below 12:00 which is not that often the tone pot on my guitar can take take the edge off nicely.


----------



## Micky

mickeydg5 said:


> The 100pF or something around that value will give just enough high pass at lower gain/volume. The sound is more natural, if that is a good word to describe, relative to volume knob placement like on the CLASSIC GAIN knob or classic volume controls.



Exactly.

With my current speaker and this slight adjustment for cap value, I can tame the fizz on ODII on the Ultra channel to where I can actually set it for a tone very similar to Crunch on the Classic channel.

The lower value cap cuts less bass (lets more thru) and keeps the tone very similar sounding to that channel. It is like a continuation of the Crunch mode instead of such a sharp jump to a much higher gain mode. Seems to equalize ODII to where it still retains a bit of bass to offset the bright tone already present.

The biggest changes you can make are still speakers and tubes, and the pickups you use are still the determining factor on whether you need the Tone Shift. Sometimes I wish the channel switch would also activate the Tone Shift, as I love the fuller response on the Classic Channel, and still love the bright clear tone on the Ultra Channel...


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> Exactly.
> 
> With my current speaker and this slight adjustment for cap value, I can tame the fizz on ODI on the Ultra channel to where I can actually set it for a tone very similar to Crunch on the Classic channel.
> 
> The lower value cap cuts less bass (lets more thru) and keeps the tone very similar sounding to that channel. It is like a continuation of the Crunch mode instead of such a sharp jump to a much higher gain mode. Seems to equalize ODI to where it still retains a bit of bass to offset the bright tone already present.
> 
> The biggest changes you can make are still speakers and tubes, and the pickups you use are still the determining factor on whether you need the Tone Shift. Sometimes I wish the channel switch would also activate the Tone Shift, as I love the fuller response on the Classic Channel, and still love the bright clear tone on the Ultra Channel...



I don't seem to have a problem with fizz on Red1. I can pretty much turn it up as needed without it getting weird. And Red2 is a continuation of Red1 with C-19 clipped.

The JCA22H I just sold (wahhhhhhhhhhh ) seemed to have been designed with all of this in mind. The OD channel simply picked up where the crunch channel left off, and it was actually possible to adjust them so I couldn't tell which one I was on. But while it's a two channel, two MV model, it's not a dual-mode amp, either, at least not without mods. Ah well. -Rod-


----------



## USAPatriot

J.LaGrassa said:


> If you clip C20 I think it would be to muddy with out that cap in there when using Lead 2 at lower gain levels, I still have not found a need to clip or change C19. when I do have Lead 1 gain set below 12:00 which is not that often the tone pot on my guitar can take take the edge off nicely.



The C-19 clip is all about making Red2 usable, though. Since clipping it, I've spent more time on Red2 than anywhere else. It's velocity sensitive, so touch is important to using it. -Rod-


----------



## Micky

USAPatriot said:


> The C-19 clip is all about making Red2 usable, though. Since clipping it, I've spent more time on Red2 than anywhere else. It's velocity sensitive, so touch is important to using it. -Rod-



Like I mentioned earlier on in this thread, I love the way the Ultra Channel works now, it is so much easier to nail tones similar to VH, Rush and a couple others. Unfortunately I don't play lead (a lot) so I am pretty much stuck on the Classic Crunch mode with the Ultra ODII mode on the footswitch with the gain about 4-5 or so.

Way too easy to dial in too much gain, and that is where you start to lose note definition...


----------



## MarshallDog

Swede said:


> I just did the C19 mod.....Gonna slap it together and see whats happening.....Whats the deal with C4 and C5 for the clean/crunch channel?



+1 Bro, I did the same thing way earlier in this thread. Took C19 out and a bit dead, then I experimented with a few other values and have settled on a 100 pF for some time. Then I got board and am now using a 47 pF in both C19 and C4. Thickens up both channels and takes out those highs, makes the treble, mids and presence knobs more useable now. Clean is even better than before! I am with you, what the hell was Marshall thinking


----------



## J.LaGrassa

I might clip C19 just out of curiosity and then add the 100pF just to hear how it reacts to my personal setup, who knows maybe I will like it.


----------



## MarshallDog

J.LaGrassa said:


> I might clip C19 just out of curiosity and then add the 100pF just to hear how it reacts to my personal setup, who knows maybe I will like it.



A better idea over clipping it is to cut the cap off its leads by using side cutters, crack it, crush it whatever and then clean up the remaining leads. This way you can always solder another cap onto the leads very easily, just my suggestion.


----------



## Swede

I just installed a Mullard in V1 and a Sylvania long plate in the PI...In all other postions are RCA grey and blackplate....

It does feel like the amp tightened up a little on the gain channel, and perhaps even opened up a little on the clean/crunch?

I know, that sounds like contradiction......Its a keeper for sure.

Thanks Marty.

In the V1 before, I noticed I had a RCA grey "long" plate? Not sure why I had put that in there, and the PI was the stock tube.


----------



## Swede

MarshallDog said:


> +1 Bro, I did the same thing way earlier in this thread. Took C19 out and a bit dead, then I experimented with a few other values and have settled on a 100 pF for some time. Then I got board and am now using a 47 pF in both C19 and C4. Thickens up both channels and takes out those highs, makes the treble, mids and presence knobs more useable now. Clean is even better than before! I am with you, what the hell was Marshall thinking



Did you do the soldering yourself? or had a tech do it?

I realized just how damn "SMALL" everything was in there as I was doing my C19 mod.....

Also......What is the C4? Bright cap for the clean/crunch channel?


----------



## mickeydg5

C4 is the bright cap for the CLEAN/CRUNCH channel.

That is why I mentioned _about_ 100pF. You can try anything from 47pf to 390pF. Remember though that each tube or type/brand of tube has its own character. That works in conjunction with the filtering and frequencies being passed and amplified.

C20 removal will increase gain and high end of LEAD2.


----------



## Der JD

First of all…I’m new here. Great forum and thanks to everyone who provides information here, especially in this thread. It certainly helped me arrive at the decision to purchase a DSL40c. Apologies in advance for the long post. 

About 10 days ago, I took delivery of a used DSL40c. It’s only a few months old and is in mint condition. The original owner replaced the stock speaker with a Creamback 65. Overall, I’m just absolutely loving this amp. Here are some thoughts. 

Before buying, I watched just about every Youtube clip of this amp and read a lot of information in various forums. A few years ago I had the old JCM2000 DSL 50 head (which I really liked) but I had never gotten a chance to try the new ones. First off, it’s a fairly bright amp and can actually be too bright if you don’t take the time to experiment with the EQ and/or do mods. However, I knew that going into this and personally I’d much rather have to tame a bright amp vs. trying to brighten up a dark amp. I knew the Creamback would also help in this regard and was one of my primary reasons for purchasing this particular one. 

I find that I have to run the treble, presence, and mids lower than most other amps I’ve had in the past, which doesn’t bother me at all. It’s just a shock if you plug in with all the controls set high. I’m keeping all three of these controls at noon or below. The mids knob on this amp is definitely voiced more on the hi-mids side of things vs low mids. Set the mids knob too high and your ears perceive more high end. Unfortunately, I’ve never had the chance to try the stock speaker but based on everything I’ve seen and read, I think I can safely say that I prefer the Creamback and that it adds a lot of smoothness and low end to this combo amp. 

With the Creamback and EQ controls set at noon or below I get some awesome thick, creamy tones out of this thing. Plenty of low end as well. In the past, I’ve primarily been a metal player (everything from old Sabbath to newer extreme death metal) but here lately I’ve been playing mostly blues, classic rock, 80s metal, and occasionally even some jazzy type of things. My amp works incredibly well for these styles. Classic Marshall tone with this speaker, especially on the clean/crunch channel. I do find that if I’m on OD1 (haven’t really found a need for OD2 yet) I have to back off the treble and presence a little more compared to the other channel. If I want a little more of a metal “scoop” I run a graphic EQ pedal in the loop, which I seem to prefer vs. using the contour button. This might not be necessary with a different speaker as the Creamback is certainly creamy! One of these days when I get around to it I’ll plug this into my Mesa Recto 212 cab just to see how things change. I have my doubts as to whether I’ll like it as much as the Creamback, though. This speaker just seems to fit my tastes perfectly. 

The reverb is ok, nothing special, but I don’t use a lot of reverb anyway. I’d probably prefer running a reverb and/or delay pedal in the loop. I’m aware that a lot of folks seem to like modding these and it’s very possible that in the future I might try the C19 mod and some tube swapping but for now I’m going to leave it as is. 

One of the things I like best about this amp is that it sounds great at low volume. Typically, I play at “loud TV” volume when practicing but sometimes it’s necessary to play lower. The tone stays intact. I’ve tried cranking it just to see how things change and aside from the fact that you miss the thump of the speaker moving air when played quietly, I really think the tone stays similar with varying degrees of volume. I think the partially open back design also helps with low volume playing. IME, closed back cabs need more volume to sound good. 

I’d say there are only a couple of things that I don’t like about this amp, which you all have discussed at great length in the past. First, when going from the clean/crunch channel to the OD channel I have to adjust treble and sometimes presence (maybe the C19 mod would take of this for me). Also, being able to footswitch from clean to crunch would be nice. 

Overall, it’s just a great, versatile amp. Huge range of Marshall tones from this thing and more gain than I even need, but the tones are distinctly Marshall, which is a good thing in my book. If you need 5150 or Dual Rec tones get a 5150 or Dual Rec. The DSL sounds like a Marshall!


----------



## Micky

Great report and Welcome!

Congrats on the new (to you) amp! What a deal you got with a Creamback already installed...

I agree 100% with your EQ settings, it is very dependent on the speaker you choose.

Anyway glad to have you here and feel free to post more of your experiences and any information you have about the DSL40c!


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> Like I mentioned earlier on in this thread, I love the way the Ultra Channel works now, it is so much easier to nail tones similar to VH, Rush and a couple others. Unfortunately I don't play lead (a lot) so I am pretty much stuck on the Classic Crunch mode with the Ultra ODII mode on the footswitch with the gain about 4-5 or so.
> 
> Way too easy to dial in too much gain, and that is where you start to lose note definition...



Very true. I think I mentioned this elsewhere, but I'd give up some gain on Red2 for the ability to make the gain knob less sensitive, ie, turn it more but have smaller changes to the gain. As it is, everything usable is pretty much between 2 and 3. It'd be great if that space between 2 and 3, maybe 4 just for grins and giggles, were spread out through the entire throw of the pot. I assume a different pot would accomplish this? -Rod-



MarshallDog said:


> A better idea over clipping it is to cut the cap off its leads by using side cutters, crack it, crush it whatever and then clean up the remaining leads. This way you can always solder another cap onto the leads very easily, just my suggestion.



I like your thinking. Myself, I clipped one leg about halfway up and just bent it up, but your way is better, I think. That one I clipped was the long leg so I could still do as you suggest and probably have at least equal legs to work with. -Rod-


----------



## bman

Let me know your results if you clip the C19 please. I have been considering this myself but afraid to change the Marshall stock components.


----------



## USAPatriot

mickeydg5 said:


> C4 is the bright cap for the CLEAN/CRUNCH channel.
> 
> That is why I mentioned _about_ 100pF. You can try anything from 47pf to 390pF. Remember though that each tube or type/brand of tube has its own character. That works in conjunction with the filtering and frequencies being passed and amplified.
> 
> C20 removal will increase gain and high end of LEAD2.



The value could likewise be dropped as with C-19 and C-4? I need to think on that. Thanks. -Rod-


----------



## Micky

USAPatriot said:


> The value could likewise be dropped as with C-19 and C-4? I need to think on that. Thanks. -Rod-



This is why the choice for V1 is so critical, especially for the Ultra channel. V1b is the start of the gain stages for this channel.

Prior to that, V1a is like an input buffer, common to everything and sets the 'character' of the amp, no matter how subtle it may sound or feel. MickeyDG nailed it with this one, it is very subjective and may feel different depending on the tube and surrounding circuitry.


----------



## Swede

Ive noticed some feedback since yesterday.....Since swapping V1 and V4.....Dont know if that is the culprit.

I has happened while on Ultra channel 2 gain at 4 and volume at 5. Guitar is a Fender Strat with Custom shop 69's in it....Also an Illitch back plate is installed.

Its not the kind of feedback you can control, but more like a feedback that sutained even when turning the volume on guitar down...

YES, it was ear shattering loud

What you think? Microphonic tube?


----------



## Micky

Yup. Combos are notorious for that...


----------



## Swede

Micky said:


> Yup. Combos are notorious for that...



SO, what exactly is going on?


----------



## MarshallDog

Swede said:


> Did you do the soldering yourself? or had a tech do it?
> 
> I realized just how damn "SMALL" everything was in there as I was doing my C19 mod.....
> 
> Also......What is the C4? Bright cap for the clean/crunch channel?



I do everything myself, cheaper faster and I don't have to worry about my amp getting scratched up...plus I find it to be fun. I think someone else answered you question about C4 but you are correct.

FYI, I tried a Jan GE 5751 in V1 and I think I really like it, so far. A bit less gain but even more vintage sounding and warmer/thicker...next I am trying the new JJ ECC83 MG's. They are the mid gain tubes, can't wait to test them out.


----------



## Micky

Microphonic tubes pick up vibrations from the speaker easily in a combo because of the close proximity to the speaker. If, by chance the vibration is a 'resonant' frequency common to the vacuum tube several things could happen, such as ghost notes, feedback and other types of strange sounds.

To check for a microphonic tube, take a chopstick or pencil and tap on each tube to find the one that makes noise. Personally I think all tubes are microphonic to a certain degree, some are just more than others and present a problem. Also, microphonic tubes present more of a problem in some positions in the amp than others. For example, you may notice it more in the V2 position more than the V4 position, etc, or vice versa, depends on the amp.

Hope this helps.


----------



## Swede

Hmmm? Ok, I didnt have the problem before i just got new tubes from Marty (not blaming him), but then again, I only recently started using the Ultra channel 1 and 2 since I did the C19 mod....

Gonna start tapping....


----------



## Micky

I would imagine if you got one from Marty that was defective he would replace it without question. Microphonic tubes are much harder to sort out, I don't think there is any tester that can detect one. And I know he tests EVERY tube to insure quality.

But hey, you never know...


----------



## Swede

Micky said:


> I would imagine if you got one from Marty that was defective he would replace it without question. Microphonic tubes are much harder to sort out, I don't think there is any tester that can detect one. And I know he tests EVERY tube to insure quality.
> 
> But hey, you never know...



i totally hear you...He seem like a very nice guy and legit......Have a bunch of things to do, but will check on the tubes later this week.....Until then, everything works fantastic, just not ear shattering loud fantastic.


----------



## mickeydg5

Swede said:


> Hmmm? Ok, I didnt have the problem before i just got new tubes from Marty (not blaming him), but then again, I only recently started using the Ultra channel 1 and 2 since I did the C19 mod....
> 
> Gonna start tapping....


Is the tube being used at V1 slated as strong or high gain?


----------



## Swede

mickeydg5 said:


> Is the tube being used at V1 slated as strong or high gain?



its a Vintage Mullard. Not sure how those are rated.


----------



## Duffy49

Swede said:


> Hmmm? Ok, I didnt have the problem before i just got new tubes from Marty (not blaming him), but then again, I only recently started using the Ultra channel 1 and 2 since I did the C19 mod....
> 
> Gonna start tapping....



If your amp is plugged into a power strip or something like that, try unplugging it and plugging the amp "directly into the wall outlet". This can solve a lot of problems, sometimes, and has worked for me more than once.

Sometimes the simple solutions yield the best results. Then again I have had amps that were impossible to get fixed, even by pro amp guys.


----------



## mickeydg5

Swede said:


> its a Vintage Mullard. Not sure how those are rated.


I was just wondering if Marty gave you a hot tube could it make the ULTRA prone to oscillation and feedback.

Has anyone else noticed anything similar with the ULTRA channel if placing a hot tube in V1?

Did I read in this thread where people were using lower output (medium gain levels) tubes or even 5751 in V1 slot? Some are also mentioning hum, hiss and sometimes feedback in the ULTRA channel.


----------



## MarshallDog

mickeydg5 said:


> I was just wondering if Marty gave you a hot tube could it make the ULTRA prone to oscillation and feedback.
> 
> Has anyone else noticed anything similar with the ULTRA channel if placing a hot tube in V1?
> 
> Did I read in this thread where people were using lower output (medium gain levels) tubes or even 5751 in V1 slot? Some are also mentioning hum, hiss and sometimes feedback in the ULTRA channel.



I am currently using the 5751 and love it so far...


----------



## J.LaGrassa

The JJ ECC83 MG might be worth trying in V1 and maybe V2 as well

Eurotubes description:
A first look at another new tube from JJ! Over the last few months we have been testing yet another new tube from the good people at JJ Electronic. The JJ ECC83 MG is a “Mid Gain” 12AX7 type tube. It utilizes a medium length ribbed plate design that is much like the old Amperex and Brimar European designs. It retains all of the definition and detail that the ECC83S short plate and the ECC803S long plate tubes have but it has slightly less gain than the ECC83S but a bit more gain than the ECC803S.

Sonically it’s nice and thick sounding with a good edge that’s not brittle. It has plenty of definition even when used in an amp with lots of gain and the microphonics are very low. The ECC83 MG is a little more polite than the ECC83S which is pretty aggressive. The ECC83 MG has a fair amount of harmonic density but remains very open sounding whether played clean or overdriven. All in all it’s a really nice sounding tube and we will have the first production run in late December!


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> I would imagine if you got one from Marty that was defective he would replace it without question. Microphonic tubes are much harder to sort out, I don't think there is any tester that can detect one. And I know he tests EVERY tube to insure quality.
> 
> But hey, you never know...



I'm definitely no expert on the inner workings of tubes, but I do keep my ear to the ground. I've never heard of a technical means to test for or even an objective explanation for microphonic tubes. Shit happens.  -Rod-


----------



## Micky

https://www.tubedepot.com/what-is-a-microphonic-tube
How do you spot a microphonic tube?
Microphonics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAF42EwLzks]What Is a Microphonic Power Tube? - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

Micky said:


> https://www.tubedepot.com/what-is-a-microphonic-tube
> How do you spot a microphonic tube?
> Microphonics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> What Is a Microphonic Power Tube? - YouTube




Thanks Micky! I guess this means I have never had a microphonic tube, well at least in V1 or V2. Good info!


----------



## mickeydg5

And that is how you test for microphonic tubes whether on a tester or inside an actual amplifier.

When testing for noise and microphonic behavior in conjunction with a tube tester a signal is sent via jacks through wire/cable to an outboard amplifier/speaker. The tube under test is then tapped or what have you while listening for noise.


----------



## bman

hey peeps just a heads up from what I have learned. When I was a teen in the early 80's everyone told me to scoop my mids. After much experimentation with the DSL40 I've discovered this is completely wrong. After setting my mids to 7 and 1/2 or 8 the amp jumped to life w/ early VH, Rush, and later Dokken tones. I found that buy humping the mids up and slightly scooping the highs and presence down you get a warm growl with sustain. Im obviously playing a wolfgang through it so results may vary, but I'm a firm believer that tone is in the mids w/ the DSL40


----------



## J.LaGrassa

bman said:


> hey peps just a heads up from what I have learned. When I was a teen in the early 80's everyone told me to scoop my mids. After much experimentation with the DSL40 I've discovered this is completely wrong. After setting my mids to 7 and 1/2 or 8 the amp jumped to life w/ early VH, Rush, and later Dokken tones. I found that buy humping the mids up and slightly scooping the highs and presence down you get a warm growl with sustain. Im obviously playing a wolfgang through it so results may vary, but I'm a firm believer that tone is in the mids w/ the DSL40



I've found I started bumping the mids my self using Lead 1, my mids are on 6 and this is with the Creamback 65 in my amp. It just adds a tightness that I like when playing classic and hard rock tones!


----------



## bman

Dont be afraid to bump it another notch, and let me know what you think!


----------



## Jethro Rocker

I run mine on 6 or 7 on lead 1 and crunch, it works for me. V30 and c19 clip....


----------



## USAPatriot

mickeydg5 said:


> And that is how you test for microphonic tubes whether on a tester or inside an actual amplifier.
> 
> When testing for noise and microphonic behavior in conjunction with a tube tester a signal is sent via jacks through wire/cable to an outboard amplifier/speaker. The tube under test is then tapped or what have you while listening for noise.



Tap tap tap. I know all about that, whether on a tester or in the amp. Fans, switches florescent lights...even tapping your guitar or the pickups. But outside of the tapping or other external phenomena, there's no way to know. That's all my point was. This is one of those "WHY?" things for me. There's no meter reading that says, "Microphonic", although with a large enough sample of microphonic tubes to test and the willingness to document and analyze thousands of tested microphonic tubes, it might be possible to point to something and then devise a test for it. Dunno. It seems to me that a bright boy with bread-boarding skills could take up the challenge. -Rod-


----------



## USAPatriot

bman said:


> hey peeps just a heads up from what I have learned. When I was a teen in the early 80's everyone told me to scoop my mids. After much experimentation with the DSL40 I've discovered this is completely wrong. After setting my mids to 7 and 1/2 or 8 the amp jumped to life w/ early VH, Rush, and later Dokken tones. I found that buy humping the mids up and slightly scooping the highs and presence down you get a warm growl with sustain. Im obviously playing a wolfgang through it so results may vary, but I'm a firm believer that tone is in the mids w/ the DSL40



I have to agree. Well, I don't have to, but I certainly do. Scooping my mids, on the amp, the guitar and my MXR-108 just yields mud. I also tend to have a heavy hand on the EQ, so I may be scooping too much, but overall I'm finding that keeping them at least neutral is the way to go. Adding too much is worse...the ol' honked wah sound that makes me shut it all off for the night because it ruins my ears. I've got my lows up, the mids just a hair above neutral and the highs dipped down a bit. The tone knobs on my Les Paul (burstbuckers I and II) are set at about 4 or 5. Right now the gain on Red2 is sitting on 4, clipped C-19. I get good clarity and it demands restrained touch. -Rod-


----------



## USAPatriot

Well, I finally found the time to hook up my new attenuator. I wish I could say good things. I wish I could say ANYthings. Damned if I didn't sell my stack and along with it, my speaker cables.  I'll have a new cable in a couple days. lol -Rod-


----------



## Gary Nelson

I have owned a DSL40c 3 months shy of a year now and finally sold it this week. It's not a bad amp and the clean channel is excellent, but for me when I switch to the second channel I could never get the sound I need. When I changed the tone settings to compensate then it screws up the clean channel and vise versa.
Even with the tone changes it was never what I wanted. So I just had enough and had to sell it.
After testing one, I ordered a JVM215c and will receive it sometime this week. It's a lot of money but I need a specific sound and this one provides that for me. 

Looking forward in getting the new amp, and have a gig the same weekend so it should be fun.
I want to thank everyone for the feedback and information.

Gary..


----------



## Len

Gary Nelson said:


> I have owned a DSL40c 3 months shy of a year now and finally sold it this week. It's not a bad amp and the clean channel is excellent, but for me when I switch to the second channel I could never get the sound I need. When I changed the tone settings to compensate then it screws up the clean channel and vise versa.
> Even with the tone changes it was never what I wanted. So I just had enough and had to sell it.
> After testing one, I ordered a JVM215c and will receive it sometime this week. It's a lot of money but I need a specific sound and this one provides that for me.
> 
> Looking forward in getting the new amp, and have a gig the same weekend so it should be fun.
> I want to thank everyone for the feedback and information.
> 
> Gary..



Looks like the opposite of me. I had a JVM215c and could never get a decent sound out of it so I sold it and bought a DSL40c . Looks like there's a Marshall for everyone, just not every Marshall for all...


----------



## Swede

Gary Nelson said:


> I have owned a DSL40c 3 months shy of a year now and finally sold it this week. It's not a bad amp and the clean channel is excellent, but for me when I switch to the second channel I could never get the sound I need. When I changed the tone settings to compensate then it screws up the clean channel and vise versa.
> Even with the tone changes it was never what I wanted. So I just had enough and had to sell it.
> After testing one, I ordered a JVM215c and will receive it sometime this week. It's a lot of money but I need a specific sound and this one provides that for me.
> 
> Looking forward in getting the new amp, and have a gig the same weekend so it should be fun.
> I want to thank everyone for the feedback and information.
> 
> Gary..



if u had done the C19 mod, I can almost guarantee you that it would be a keeper...Thats how BIG the difference was to me.


----------



## unclejackrock

First time poster, long time lurker here... I bought my DSL40C from MF last year before Christmas. It sounded wonderful out of the box, but when I went to channel 2 it was sooo harsh and trebly. I read about the C19 clip and finally did it. All I can say is wowholysmokinshitballs!!!!!!!! Sounds much more like the recordings that I love. 
I'm just checking in, and showing appreciation to everyone that contributes to this wonderful forum.


----------



## Swede

unclejackrock said:


> First time poster, long time lurker here... I bought my DSL40C from MF last year before Christmas. It sounded



congrats, How u like it so far? Ive only have had mine for a few months. Changed speaker and did C19 and its a KILLER set up now.


----------



## unclejackrock

Swede said:


> congrats, How u like it so far? Ive only have had mine for a few months. Changed speaker and did C19 and its a KILLER set up now.



Ive only played through the stock speaker, so my opinion is limited. However, I did recognize the absolute difference between channel 1 and 2. Channel 2 was so harsh and ice picky I decided to say to hell with my warranty, and clip C19. After that I've found that this amp has everything that I want from it. A big thank you to everyone that has contributed to this forum, especially regarding this amp. 
Next thing is to make an attempt at a bias check. I want to keep her healthy!! Lol


----------



## unclejackrock

Swede said:


> congrats, How u like it so far? Ive only have had mine for a few months. Changed speaker and did C19 and its a KILLER set up now.



I absolutely love it.... Can't wait to get home from work to plug in.


----------



## Swede

unclejackrock said:


> I absolutely love it.... Can't wait to get home from work to plug in.



Sweet.....one thing that really nailed it for me besides C19, was the WGS Invader 50 watt Greenback clone I put in mine......A whole new amp all together it feels like.

Im not so sure I would keep it period, If I didnt mod it and voided the warranty. After all, what good is a warranty on a product that you dont wanna keep anyways


----------



## AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing

Hey are you les paul guys rolling off your tone at all with this amp (especially on bridge pickup) or all knobs full?


----------



## unclejackrock

AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing said:


> Hey are you les paul guys rolling off your tone at all with this amp (especially on bridge pickup) or all knobs full?



2011 Standard Les Paul here, no tone rolling. But I've always been a wide open guita guy. Before C19 clip it was ear shattering, after is smooth and warm nastiness!!!!


----------



## MarshallDog

I roll my bridge tone back to about 5-6. B

FYI, I was very curious and removed the (2) 49 pF I had in C4 and C19 and went with no cap at all in both to see what would happen, we'll I did a small gig tonight and I think it is a keeper! The amp is warmer, thicker, more vintage sounding without that fuzzy tone. It still has more than enough gain. Makes the EQ knobs more useable and I play LPS's.


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

My tone knob generally sits at about 7 for the bridge pickup and full out for the neck. Of course that is subject to change without notice. That's why they make em twisty.


----------



## mickeydg5

USAPatriot said:


> Tap tap tap. I know all about that, whether on a tester or in the amp. Fans, switches florescent lights...even tapping your guitar or the pickups. But outside of the tapping or other external phenomena, there's no way to know. That's all my point was. This is one of those "WHY?" things for me. There's no meter reading that says, "Microphonic", although with a large enough sample of microphonic tubes to test and the willingness to document and analyze thousands of tested microphonic tubes, it might be possible to point to something and then devise a test for it. Dunno. It seems to me that a bright boy with bread-boarding skills could take up the challenge. -Rod-


 There will never be a meter to check such a thing. I believe someone had described earlier some causes for microphonic behavior. It is not an electrical characteristic. It is physical or mechanical conditions pertaining to internal parts brought on by wear or damage. The condition allows for excessive movement or vibration causing unwanted behavior or sound.

There is a test. Look and listen.

Someone did create a vacuum tube tapper, see.


----------



## USAPatriot

mickeydg5 said:


> There will never be a meter to check such a thing. I believe someone had described earlier some causes for microphonic behavior. It is not an electrical characteristic. It is physical or mechanical conditions pertaining to internal parts brought on by wear or damage. The condition allows for excessive movement or vibration causing unwanted behavior or sound.
> 
> There is a test. Look and listen.
> 
> Someone did create a vacuum tube tapper, see.



Yeah, but what's that tube tapped into? It matters! 

My replacement EH-6CA7's arrived this morning and as we speak the tubes are cooling before I put the chassis back into the cab. The set biased right up this time, in fact, I probably could have just plugged them in and played, one was at 37.5 and the other in the high 38's when I first checked. 452V and 38.2/3 on both tubes. After letting them sit and idle for 30 minutes both had drifted up to 39.1 so I lowered both back down to 38.2/3 and they stayed there this time. There is a little noise, that sounds like wind, but it's not connected to ground nor the tubes that I can tell. None of them tap as microphonic, including the preamp tubes. Plugging my Les Paul in introduces enough noise to cover the "wind" sound then grounding the guitar back out via my ground wire brings it back. It's no more evident if I turn up the gain and barely goes up if I turn up the volume. For grins and giggles I monitored the PV (DCV) and bias voltage (mV) while I tweaked the gain and volume. No changes. I never knew that, so hey, learn something new every day. I also flipped through all 3 overhead fan settings and flipped the AC on and off and there were no burps or anything through the amp. That particular "wind" noise was not present in the TAD's or the other 2 sets of Marshall's...though the one set was microphonic...so the noise does seem to be coming from the new power tubes but it'll never be heard once the amp is in use.

The wife is going out to dinner with an old girlfriend tonight so I'll gt to see how well the EH's perform . It sounded ok with the speaker face down into the carpet... lol -Rod-


----------



## MarshallDog

USAPatriot said:


> Yeah, but what's that tube tapped into? It matters!
> 
> My replacement EH-6CA7's arrived this morning and as we speak the tubes are cooling before I put the chassis back into the cab. The set biased right up this time, in fact, I probably could have just plugged them in and played, one was at 37.5 and the other in the high 38's when I first checked. 452V and 38.2/3 on both tubes. After letting them sit and idle for 30 minutes both had drifted up to 39.1 so I lowered both back down to 38.2/3 and they stayed there this time. There is a little noise, that sounds like wind, but it's not connected to ground nor the tubes that I can tell. None of them tap as microphonic, including the preamp tubes. Plugging my Les Paul in introduces enough noise to cover the "wind" sound then grounding the guitar back out via my ground wire brings it back. It's no more evident if I turn up the gain and barely goes up if I turn up the volume. For grins and giggles I monitored the PV (DCV) and bias voltage (mV) while I tweaked the gain and volume. No changes. I never knew that, so hey, learn something new every day. I also flipped through all 3 overhead fan settings and flipped the AC on and off and there were no burps or anything through the amp. That particular "wind" noise was not present in the TAD's or the other 2 sets of Marshall's...though the one set was microphonic...so the noise does seem to be coming from the new power tubes but it'll never be heard once the amp is in use.
> 
> The wife is going out to dinner with an old girlfriend tonight so I'll gt to see how well the EH's perform . It sounded ok with the speaker face down into the carpet... lol -Rod-



Hey Bud, how do those 6CA7's sound? I have been curious as to how they would sound in this amp.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

MarshallDog said:


> I roll my bridge tone back to about 5-6. B
> 
> FYI, I was very curious and removed the (2) 49 pF I had in C4 and C19 and went with no cap at all in both to see what would happen, we'll I did a small gig tonight and I think it is a keeper! The amp is warmer, thicker, more vintage sounding without that fuzzy tone. It still has more than enough gain. Makes the EQ knobs more useable and I play LPS's.



Still no C19 mod for me and I just put back the stock speaker, I'm just not getting the extreme treble most complain about. I still do have 4 JJ ECC83S and a pair of JJ E34L for tubes and the JJ's do a good job at taming harshness also my PRS McCarty has a nice warm and thick tone to it unlike my old Les Paul which was a biter... glad I sold it.

I use the amp with a couple of bands and at average band levels the stock 70/80 speaker works great and cuts great and I set the Treble and presence at 4 with gain at 6 or 7, if I set the gain lower I just set my guitars tone knob a little lower and take off the edge so I'm still very happy with the amp the way it is.


----------



## USAPatriot

MarshallDog said:


> Hey Bud, how do those 6CA7's sound? I have been curious as to how they would sound in this amp.



So far, so good! The wife didn't go out tonight afterall so I didn't get to really cut loose but the 30 minutes at normal levels for me were good and the wife thought it was good too. She said the notes were "clearer" and I'd have to agree. She doesn't play anything so is just hearing it as anyone else would without a critical ear, but if she likes it better, that says something. Hopefully her and her friend will get out this week as planned so I can turn it up some. I didn't hear any negatives, it didn't get middy and wasn't quite as shrill as usual and I did turn the guitar up some while turning the amp down some. The amp seemed to like it. -Rod-


----------



## AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing

I haven't played with it "loud" for a few days was going to mess with tone knob with am settings up fuller, also. . .I have the MXR 10 band EQ, was going to hook that up to try to kill some of the ear-piercingness. Had an idea. . .you guys who've done the C19 mod, can you tell me what it does in terms of frequencies/i.e. how you could you emulate it with an EQ? Seems like it should be doable.


----------



## bman

J.LaGrassa said:


> Still no C19 mod for me and I just put back the stock speaker, I'm just not getting the extreme treble most complain about. I still do have 4 JJ ECC83S and a pair of JJ E34L for tubes and the JJ's do a good job at taming harshness also my PRS McCarty has a nice warm and thick tone to it unlike my old Les Paul which was a biter... glad I sold it.
> 
> I use the amp with a couple of bands and at average band levels the stock 70/80 speaker works great and cuts great and I set the Treble and presence at 4 with gain at 6 or 7, if I set the gain lower I just set my guitars tone knob a little lower and take off the edge so I'm still very happy with the amp the way it is.



I dont have the brittle ice picky problems either and I'm using the exact same treble and presence as you with my EVH.


----------



## MarshallDog

*A request for assistance and feedback from all of you experts on amp layout and circuit schematics. *

A few months back damienbeale helped me lower the voltage to the preamp stages in my 83 JCM 800 2204 by simply increasing the the 10K resistor? Here is the link to the thread: Can Someone Explain Why....

Anyway, damienbeale has been MIA lately and I was wondering if I could do the same thing to my DSL40C. I studied the circuit and it looks like resistor R83 (4.7K/2W) would be the same as the 10K in the JCM that I upped to 22K. I am just not positive. The mains voltage is 456V. I did not measure the preamp stage voltages yet but I am sure they are high. I would just like to try to loosen the amp up a bit if you know what I mean. When I did this to my JCM the tone improve immensely IMO, closer to a JMP.

I am unable to attach the scanned schematic because I cannot get it below the forum size limit no matter what I do. If anyone needs it, please PM me and I will e-mail it to you...

I would just like to make sure this can be done and I am on the proper resistor so I don't ruin anything.


----------



## Roger Tyria

MDog,
You are on the right track if you want to drop the B+ rail voltage to the pre amps. R83 is the 1st voltage divider resistor feeding HT6 for PI section. Look also at sheet 1 at the top LH side you will see the rest of the voltage divider circuit for the pre amps.

Yes by changing the value of R83 you will be able to lower the voltage to ALL of the 12AX7 tubes including the PI. If you only want to impact gain stages take a look at R16 [V1A] and R24 [V1B] plate supply resistors.

It would be a good idea to check voltages at these points to be able to determine the current through the resistors to be able to make a good estimate what size to change these to to get the drop your looking for.


----------



## DSMer

MarshallDog said:


> *A request for assistance and feedback from all of you experts on amp layout and circuit schematics. *
> 
> A few months back damienbeale helped me lower the voltage to the preamp stages in my 83 JCM 800 2204 by simply increasing the the 10K resistor? Here is the link to the thread: Can Someone Explain Why....
> 
> Anyway, damienbeale has been MIA lately and I was wondering if I could do the same thing to my DSL40C. I studied the circuit and it looks like resistor R83 (4.7K/2W) would be the same as the 10K in the JCM that I upped to 22K. I am just not positive. The mains voltage is 456V. I did not measure the preamp stage voltages yet but I am sure they are high. I would just like to try to loosen the amp up a bit if you know what I mean. When I did this to my JCM the tone improve immensely IMO, closer to a JMP.
> 
> I am unable to attach the scanned schematic because I cannot get it below the forum size limit no matter what I do. If anyone needs it, please PM me and I will e-mail it to you...
> 
> I would just like to make sure this can be done and I am on the proper resistor so I don't ruin anything.



Lower voltage to the preamp tubes will increase the overall gain but you will also lose headroom. It makes the amp break up sooner giving you the "brownish" sound. The mod definitely works great in 2204. I've done similar mod in my 6100 but I would not recommend this in DSL40C. The amp will become more fizzy and you will be adding more unusable amount of gain.


----------



## MarshallDog

DSMer said:


> Lower voltage to the preamp tubes will increase the overall gain but you will also lose headroom. It makes the amp break up sooner giving you the "brownish" sound. The mod definitely works great in 2204. I've done similar mod in my 6100 but I would not recommend this in DSL40C. The amp will become more fizzy and you will be adding more unusable amount of gain.



Wow, good thing I checked. I realize the circuit is a lot more complicated than a straight old 2204, is that why it doesn't work with the DSL? Have you tried it or know anyone that has? I guess if you do, they did not like it, right?


----------



## MarshallDog

Roger Tyria said:


> MDog,
> You are on the right track if you want to drop the B+ rail voltage to the pre amps. R83 is the 1st voltage divider resistor feeding HT6 for PI section. Look also at sheet 1 at the top LH side you will see the rest of the voltage divider circuit for the pre amps.
> 
> Yes by changing the value of R83 you will be able to lower the voltage to ALL of the 12AX7 tubes including the PI. If you only want to impact gain stages take a look at R16 [V1A] and R24 [V1B] plate supply resistors.
> 
> It would be a good idea to check voltages at these points to be able to determine the current through the resistors to be able to make a good estimate what size to change these to to get the drop your looking for.



Based on what DSMer said, I am not sure I should try it. Not that it is that big a deal but removing the circuit board is a PITA and if I did do it I would save the original resistor just in case...have you tried this on the DSL40C??


----------



## Roger Tyria

No I was just confirming your statement that R83 would in fact impact the pre amp supply. You were correct in locating the right spot.
The only mods I've done to my 40C is:
1. C19 Clip / although I rarely find myself using the gain channels I stay close to home with green crunch and a Full Drive II Mosfet pushing the front end when needed.
2. Moved the bias adjustment to the outside and added taps for checking plate voltage from the outside.
3. A lot of rolling pre amp tubes meh... hard call only being able to try CP glass..
4. Put a set of JJ 6CA7's in the finals and I like them a lot.

Have a great day!


----------



## DSMer

MarshallDog said:


> Based on what DSMer said, I am not sure I should try it. Not that it is that big a deal but removing the circuit board is a PITA and if I did do it I would save the original resistor just in case...have you tried this on the DSL40C??



I did try out of curiosity. I would do the opposite (i.e increasing the preamp voltage instead incl PI) but there's not enough room to increase as they are already close to maxing out. Besides CP tubes probably won't last above 300+ volts anyways. No moola for NOS.


----------



## USAPatriot

AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing said:


> I haven't played with it "loud" for a few days was going to mess with tone knob with am settings up fuller, also. . .I have the MXR 10 band EQ, was going to hook that up to try to kill some of the ear-piercingness. Had an idea. . .you guys who've done the C19 mod, can you tell me what it does in terms of frequencies/i.e. how you could you emulate it with an EQ? Seems like it should be doable.



The issue isn't so much the EQ but the quality of the gain on the Red2 channel and mode. Red1 sounds very nice, gives you a ton of crunch if you turn it up but when you switch to Red2 there's an overwhelming amount of fuzz that most people can't do anything with. Clipping C-19 cuts some highs, yes, but it's also doing something else to mediate that fuzz, making it much more user friendly. I have the MXR-108 also and nothing I did with that, short of dropping the gain on it, affected that fuzziness at all. I could cut the highs yes, but then it got really middy, the accursed honked-wah sound that BOSS GT-10 users are all too familiar with. If you don't feel the need to use Red2, don't sweat it. You could boost Red1 in various ways and avoid it altogether. Or clip it and do what you can with it. I've been using Red2 exclusively for abut 2-3 months now I think but yesterday clicked down to Red1 to see more what it's all about. I like more feel when I play and that generally means more gain. Anyhow, maybe try that...slide that right hand slider down on your EQ and see how it works out for you. You'll need to bump the volume to make up for it. -Rod-


----------



## mickeydg5

Why do not you guys just tame the ULTRA2 channel or ULTRA altogether?

It seems on the average there is too much level there for most's liking.


----------



## USAPatriot

mickeydg5 said:


> Why do not you guys just tame the ULTRA2 channel or ULTRA altogether?
> 
> It seems on the average there is too much level there for most's liking.



True. There's more gain than 99% of us can use, I'm sure. It's why we're all stuck on 2 or 3. 
I for one am not up to taking the board out and doing those kinds of mods. I'm not knowledgable enough in electronics and with those components so close together, not positive I could do a clean enough job of it. The PCB looks to be a horror to R&R. I'd have to take a boatload of photos and label every single connection x2. I'm a monkey that when shown or told how to do a thing, can keep doing it, and even expand on it, but unlike a lot of you, I don't have the innate understanding of WHY THINGS WORK. Always to the WHY, eh? lol. You probably look at it and go, "Oh, just do this, this and this...all done". Me, I'm clueless. 

Anyhow, that's WHY.  -Rod-


----------



## AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing

Thanks. Ive only messed with lead 2 briefly, i kinda like how its a little "mellower" than lead 1 in terms of eq (extra gain smooths it out?)


----------



## USAPatriot

I finally got to test drive the Carl's Custom Guitars Speaker Soak and I gotta say that overall I'm very impressed by it.

I didn't run it at 100%, more like 75% with my volume up to 8 and my gain up a bit as well as it seemed to be needed to compensate for the attenuator. It does seem a little quirky. On the one hand, as always, notes sustain forever yet I noticed that chord changes seemed not to blend together as easily as they do without the attenuator, like the notes were being cut off during the switch. The feel is different and to accommodate that I needed to either bump the volume a little more or back off the attenuator a little bit, like one or two clicks. 

I honestly didn't notice much difference in tone at the levels I was playing, as in, the attenuator wasn't sucking it up or anything though perhaps the high end edge was taken off a little bit unless I slammed the strings. 

Oddly, with the attenuator at about 75% and my volume at 8, I actually didn't feel any heat coming from the box, which really surprised me. I felt the top and sides and bottom and could not find a hot spot anywhere, not in the cables or jacks either. 

I was extra careful shutting the amp down, giving it plenty of time to discharge the caps on it's own rather than risk a "BAM!". I usually take about a minute...I gave it two and also turned the attenuator's knob back to max to allow any stored energy to flow. The amp shut down silently.

I may turn my BOSS reverb up just a bit to make those chord changes sound smoother. It's the only negative I can really come up with. It was definitely worth the $40. -Rod-


----------



## J.LaGrassa

USAPatriot said:


> I finally got to test drive the Carl's Custom Guitars Speaker Soak and I gotta say that overall I'm very impressed by it.
> 
> I didn't run it at 100%, more like 75% with my volume up to 8 and my gain up a bit as well as it seemed to be needed to compensate for the attenuator. It does seem a little quirky. On the one hand, as always, notes sustain forever yet I noticed that chord changes seemed not to blend together as easily as they do without the attenuator, like the notes were being cut off during the switch. The feel is different and to accommodate that I needed to either bump the volume a little more or back off the attenuator a little bit, like one or two clicks.
> 
> I honestly didn't notice much difference in tone at the levels I was playing, as in, the attenuator wasn't sucking it up or anything though perhaps the high end edge was taken off a little bit unless I slammed the strings.
> 
> Oddly, with the attenuator at about 75% and my volume at 8, I actually didn't feel any heat coming from the box, which really surprised me. I felt the top and sides and bottom and could not find a hot spot anywhere, not in the cables or jacks either.
> 
> I was extra careful shutting the amp down, giving it plenty of time to discharge the caps on it's own rather than risk a "BAM!". I usually take about a minute...I gave it two and also turned the attenuator's knob back to max to allow any stored energy to flow. The amp shut down silently.
> 
> I may turn my BOSS reverb up just a bit to make those chord changes sound smoother. It's the only negative I can really come up with. It was definitely worth the $40. -Rod-




Glad to hear it worked out for you, the price is definitely right!


----------



## USAPatriot

J.LaGrassa said:


> Glad to hear it worked out for you, the price is definitely right!



I need to push it up higher still though if I'm to see any real benefit. I did forget to mention that it resonates really well at the higher lows and lower mids but not overly so in the mid or lower lows. It never honked at me. With a little time I should be able to find a sweet spot where that sound becomes "3D". I think it'll be above 75% and 8 on the volume though. -Rod-


----------



## guitarman8

Ahhh got a problem on my 2 month old 40c. When I turn it on I get a loud spitting type sound. Thought it might be a tube but if I hit the channel button over to the classic crunch side the sound stops. If I go back the the gain channel it comes back. If I switch back and forth several time it goes away. Good thing it's got a warranty. Guess I take it over to my local quitar center or where ever Marshall tells me to take it to. I'm in the San Francisco area. I almost have it broken in now.


----------



## guitarman8

USAPatriot said:


> I need to push it up higher still though if I'm to see any real benefit. I did forget to mention that it resonates really well at the higher lows and lower mids but not overly so in the mid or lower lows. It never honked at me. With a little time I should be able to find a sweet spot where that sound becomes "3D". I think it'll be above 75% and 8 on the volume though. -Rod-



I don't like those power soaks, they fry all the tubes up in a hurry don't you think? The clipping on this amp is smooth as it is.


----------



## USAPatriot

guitarman8 said:


> I don't like those power soaks, they fry all the tubes up in a hurry don't you think? The clipping on this amp is smooth as it is.



I don't see how they'd eat up tubes any faster than just turning the amp up alone, no. The tubes will age quicker at higher temps (volume and gain) with or without an attenuator, especially compared to keeping it at natural bedroom levels. I've got 2 spare sets of tubes so if they do go early, I've got replacements on hand. So long as the attenuator is shedding the excess heat, I'm not concerned about it. It is a puzzle that the attenuator didn't heat up but perhaps the aluminum casing was able to shed it rather than store it. The room is also 70 degrees 24/7  I also peeked at the tubes before I shut it down and they looked and smelled normal. The only question is will I get what I want from it when I push it? The improved resonance is nice so far but given the difference in feel, I either have to use it all the time or just not use it at all. -Rod-


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Celestion Creamback 75 on order hopefully I will have it tomorrow, The 75 was what I initially wanted to get but for some reason I got the urge to try the 65. It's a nice speaker but I'm not really into that Greenback mid type tone, the 75 sounds a bit more neutral in the mid... I shall find out soon!


----------



## bman

J.LaGrassa said:


> Celestion Creamback 75 on order hopefully I will have it tomorrow, The 75 was what I initially wanted to get but for some reason I got the urge to try the 65. It's a nice speaker but I'm not really into that Greenback mid type tone, the 75 sounds a bit more neutral in the mid... I shall find out soon!



Celestion company themselves recommended the new Vtype series to me as an upgrade for this amp. I was told it had similar tone characteristics of the 70/80 but was quite a nice upgrade. Im waiting on someone to drop one of these in the 40C. Have you ever considered the Vtype?


----------



## J.LaGrassa

bman said:


> Celestion company themselves recommended the new Vtype series to me as an upgrade for this amp. I was told it had similar tone characteristics of the 70/80 but was quite a nice upgrade. Im waiting on someone to drop one of these in the 40C. Have you ever considered the Vtype?



I was looking at those, if ZZounds had a 16 ohm in stock I would have considered it I thought some of the clips I heard were nice. I was also considering the Eminence CV-75 but I really wanted to get the creamback 75


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Its Here!!

Played it for about 5 minutes and I like the mids & low end a lot better than the CB 65 and the top end is not harsh, right out of the box and it already sounds great. I have an outdoor gig on Saturday... perfect time to break that speaker in, both Creambacks are nice speakers but I can already tell the CB 75 is more to my liking.


----------



## guitarman8

My problem with the loud spitting sounds is fixed. It just took moving the preamp tubes for better contact. While I had it opened up I tried a vintage G12-70m and a Eminence Legend. Neither were good for this amp, stock speaker went back in. Also I got rid of the overly treble problem by just putting a GT 12ax7 in V2. I like what the Marshall tube in V1 does for the distortion. V2 GT just effected the tone lowering the treble.


----------



## mickeydg5

I think more people will jump on the G12H-75 Creamback bandwagon as time goes on. It seems to be a very nice speaker with really good characteristics.
I noticed for the price that the A-Type and V-Type are pretty nice as well.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

I normally don't like spending a lot of money on a speaker but I had some extra cash around plus i sold the Creamback 65 so to me the Creamback 75 is well worth the money.


----------



## guitarman3001

I put a WGS Vet 30 in mine and it made a world of difference.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Here is a little random playing testing the Creamback 75 I just installed, just stuck the recorder a couple of feet in front of the amp and hit record. About 1/2 way through I did add some delay thats in my fx loop!

[SC]https://soundcloud.com/jlagrassa-1/creamback-75[/SC]


----------



## mickeydg5

Sounds great.

A comparison of the three would have been awesome.


----------



## Swede

what do you use to record with LaGrassa?


----------



## solarburn

J.LaGrassa said:


> Here is a little random playing testing the Creamback 75 I just installed, just stuck the recorder a couple of feet in front of the amp and hit record. About 1/2 way through I did add some delay thats in my fx loop!
> 
> [SC]https://soundcloud.com/jlagrassa-1/creamback-75[/SC]



Dig it. Tasty playing too. Look forward to hearing more about it.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Swede said:


> what do you use to record with LaGrassa?



I use a Tascam DR-05, great little recorder it came with a mini 2G SD card. A few months ago GC was selling them for $59 plus a $20 MFG rebate so for $39 its a great deal. These still sell for $99 new but it looks like you can still get a $20 mail in rebate!


----------



## Gary Nelson

Gary Nelson said:


> I have owned a DSL40c 3 months shy of a year now and finally sold it this week. It's not a bad amp and the clean channel is excellent, but for me when I switch to the second channel I could never get the sound I need. When I changed the tone settings to compensate then it screws up the clean channel and vise versa.
> Even with the tone changes it was never what I wanted. So I just had enough and had to sell it.
> After testing one, I ordered a JVM215c and will receive it sometime this week. It's a lot of money but I need a specific sound and this one provides that for me.
> 
> Looking forward in getting the new amp, and have a gig the same weekend so it should be fun.
> I want to thank everyone for the feedback and information.
> 
> Gary..




Well, well, well, I recieved my JVM215c Wednesday the 30th, and I can't believe I wasted almost a whole year on the DSL40c! For my ears, a night and day difference, it sounds so close to my old JCM it is scary! Deep tones and clarity on the clean channel, and when I move to the crunch channel nice crunch with tone depth, good quality tone, and it has tone control to fine tune what you want to hear. I am very pleased I made the change. Again I do understand everyone hears differently and the 40c did not do that for me. I wish I could remember who it was on this site that told me 6 months ago if you got the cash, get the JVM. Well, I'm not rich by no means, but was able to squeeze together enough change to buy the JVM and now I'm happy again with my guitar sound. Happy Marshall purchaser again!


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Gary Nelson said:


> Well, well, well, I recieved my JVM215c Wednesday the 30th, and I can't believe I wasted almost a whole year on the DSL40c! For my ears, a night and day difference, it sounds so close to my old JCM it is scary! Deep tones and clarity on the clean channel, and when I move to the crunch channel nice crunch with tone depth, good quality tone, and it has tone control to fine tune what you want to hear. I am very pleased I made the change. Again I do understand everyone hears differently and the 40c did not do that for me. I wish I could remember who it was on this site that told me 6 months ago if you got the cash, get the JVM. Well, I'm not rich by no means, but was able to squeeze together enough change to buy the JVM and now I'm happy again with my guitar sound. Happy Marshall purchaser again!



Congrats on the JVM I've never tried one but sure its a fine amp, I still prefer the simplicity of the DSL and best of all I do like the tones I get with my DSL40... anyway enjoy that new amp and rock away!!


----------



## J.LaGrassa

What happened to the Youtube box in the editor?, was going to embed a video but noticed that function is missing.


----------



## Micky

J.LaGrassa said:


> What happened to the Youtube box in the editor?, was going to embed a video but noticed that function is missing.



No need for a special editor/button.
Just paste the www.youtube.whatever on a separate line.
The forum software will do the rest.
Also no need for the http:// either...


----------



## Micky

Gary Nelson said:


> Well, well, well, I recieved my JVM215c Wednesday the 30th, and I can't believe I wasted almost a whole year on the DSL40c! For my ears, a night and day difference, it sounds so close to my old JCM it is scary! Deep tones and clarity on the clean channel, and when I move to the crunch channel nice crunch with tone depth, good quality tone, and it has tone control to fine tune what you want to hear. I am very pleased I made the change. Again I do understand everyone hears differently and the 40c did not do that for me. I wish I could remember who it was on this site that told me 6 months ago if you got the cash, get the JVM. Well, I'm not rich by no means, but was able to squeeze together enough change to buy the JVM and now I'm happy again with my guitar sound. Happy Marshall purchaser again!



For twice the cost it OUGHT to do everything and more.
Should bias it's own tubes and go down to 1W as well.
Wait...


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Micky said:


> No need for a special editor/button.
> Just paste the www.youtube.whatever on a separate line.
> The forum software will do the rest.
> Also no need for the http:// either...



Thanks Micky!


----------



## mickeydg5

I always just bring up the youtube video in another window or tab, copy the address line and past it in the message box.

The video shows in the post afterwards.


----------



## bman

Micky said:


> For twice the cost it OUGHT to do everything and more.
> Should bias it's own tubes and go down to 1W as well.
> Wait...



I couldn't agree more. It still sounds like a Marshall...A few hundred more maybe...Twice the price, hell no, i'm out. Too each their own.


----------



## newchamp

I was checking my bias today, and the plate current would never stabilize. It would jump from 36.0-38.2 mA every few seconds. My other amps would seem to stay +/- .1mA. Is this normal for this amp? Anyone else have this issue? Plate voltage was 439 +/- 1 V. Stock power tubes, I did try some 6CA7's that I have with the same issue happening. I tried turning the adjustment pots back and forth a few times just to see if that would help but no change. The amp just doesn't sound like it did new 6 months ago.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

newchamp said:


> I was checking my bias today, and the plate current would never stabilize. It would jump from 36.0-38.2 mA every few seconds. My other amps would seem to stay +/- .1mA. Is this normal for this amp? Anyone else have this issue? Plate voltage was 439 +/- 1 V. Stock power tubes, I did try some 6CA7's that I have with the same issue happening. I tried turning the adjustment pots back and forth a few times just to see if that would help but no change. The amp just doesn't sound like it did new 6 months ago.



Does it happen with both tubes or just one, could be dirty sockets. Monitor the line voltage and see if that is varying, my amp is very steady so I would say that your Issue is not normal.


----------



## Micky

Mine jumps around a bit, normally for me a few tenths up and down.

What meter are you using?


----------



## newchamp

J.LaGrassa said:


> Does it happen with both tubes or just one, could be dirty sockets. Monitor the line voltage and see if that is varying, my amp amp is very steady so I would say that your Issue is not normal.



Both tubes on both sets. I have the EuroTubes "Pro One" bias probe on 1 tube and a separate bias probe hooked up to a DMM on the other tube. Both read a fluctuation of the same amount, +/- 2.0 mA. My DRRI is rock steady using the same equipment and power source.


----------



## Micky

I know you probably have checked these already, but are all controls at 0?
Your B+ seems a little low. What is your wall voltage?


----------



## newchamp

Micky said:


> I know you probably have checked these already, but are all controls at 0?
> Your B+ seems a little low. What is your wall voltage?



Wall voltage is 118.5. Volume and gain are at 0, E.Q. and reverb are where I usually keep them. I will try zeroing them as well.


----------



## Micky

Since you have a meter, can you verify the stability on the test pins?
Without the bias probes installed?
Also can you re-verify the B+?

Be careful, amps can be dangerous...


----------



## newchamp

Micky said:


> Since you have a meter, can you verify the stability on the test pins?
> Without the bias probes installed?
> Also can you re-verify the B+?
> 
> Be careful, amps can be dangerous...



Pin 3 on the DMM reads within 1V of the eurotube meter . The test pins show the same fluctuation on the DMM. Although the Eurotube meter goes from 36.0 to 38.2 mA and the test pins show 39.2 to 40.9 mV on the same tube.


----------



## Micky

I am gonna go out on a limb and predict early power tube failure.
Can you check the B+ with the tubes in and then out?
439 seems low, should be 450-465.

I will bet a power tube is causing the problem. Put in your spare set and see if they bias up...


----------



## mickeydg5

The schematic shows connectors, K1-K2 and K3-K4, between the power tube cathodes and the bias monitoring system to ground.

Make sure those are tight with good connection. It may affect bias readings.


----------



## Micky

The other thing to realize is that V4 is part of the power section.
Swap out that tube as well...


----------



## newchamp

Micky said:


> I am gonna go out on a limb and predict early power tube failure.
> Can you check the B+ with the tubes in and then out?
> 439 seems low, should be 450-465.
> 
> I will bet a power tube is causing the problem. Put in your spare set and see if they bias up...



I tried my JJ 6CA7's and had the same issue. They have < 2 hours on them.


----------



## newchamp

Micky said:


> The other thing to realize is that V4 is part of the power section.
> Swap out that tube as well...



I pulled and reset all the spade connectors and swaped V4 with 2 other known good tubes, same result.
Thank you all for your suggestions. This forum is fantastic and such a great resource.


----------



## mickeydg5

Well just check them once in a while to notice if drift or more fluctuation occurs.


----------



## Swede

Hey. Been looking in to a 2X12 cab that works with the DSL40C......I know about Avatar etc......and have read quite a few threads about it. Couldnt find any specific info regarding one that fits "estetically" with the 40C?

Meaning measurements etc?


----------



## J.LaGrassa

newchamp said:


> I pulled and reset all the spade connectors and swaped V4 with 2 other known good tubes, same result.
> Thank you all for your suggestions. This forum is fantastic and such a great resource.



maybe start checking the grid bias voltage and if that is unstable, possible you have an Issue with the bias power supply voltage section since both tubes are seeing the fluctuations.


----------



## mickeydg5

J.LaGrassa said:


> maybe start checking the grid bias voltage and if that is unstable, possible you have an Issue with the bias power supply voltage section since both tubes are seeing the fluctuations.


That is one of the reasons I mentioned checking it every so often. Maybe a wired connection, solder connection or component is causing the issue.
You could try chop sticking the bias network with something nonconductive to see if any abnormalities might pop up.


Or does your wall voltage change by 5% sporadically, like from 116V to 122V? That could cause it but I do not think I have seen that kind of fluctuation at the wall before.


----------



## Jws

Micky said:


> Who needs pedals...



Mickey - i have to admit after playing my dsl40c more and more i have found myself boxing up my pedals. I'm getting so much out of my guitar and the amp alone. I'm running the crunch channel with the gain switch engaged, and the amp cleans up just fine with my volume control. The ultra channel is still a bit of a challenge for me but I am it using more too.


----------



## Micky

Jws said:


> Mickey - i have to admit after playing my dsl40c more and more i have found myself boxing up my pedals. I'm getting so much out of my guitar and the amp alone. I'm running the crunch channel with the gain switch engaged, and the amp cleans up just fine with my volume control. The ultra channel is still a bit of a challenge for me but I am it using more too.



Even I have to admit there is sometimes a need for a pedal...
But only sometimes.
Most of the stuff I need to play can be covered by two channels.


----------



## USAPatriot

I got to max out both my volume and my attenuator tonight and was pretty amazed at it all. 
The first thing to note is that going to 100% on the attenuator results in NO sound at all, which obviously would be a disaster for the transformer, so it's sitting at about 99.5% and with the amp all the way up and both my Les Paul's pickups (BB1 and BB2) at about 6, is a good, on-the-loud-side-of-bedroom-level. 
I need to work on EQ-ing though as I'm getting a buzz from the V30 in the low-mid ranges. I dialed most of it out but it's still there if I go after the strings. It doesn't seem to be affected by volume per se. I think it's just an energy spike in one frequency...and I just need to track it down. 
The tone is very good, pretty compressed, so I backed off to Red1 to keep the gain up, which is sitting at 6. I may just have to back off on the gain some more.
At any rate, I'm enjoying the experience. Whenever I add or change something new my music goes in some different direction. The wife seemed pleased by tonight's session but I admit that I'm not as adept at swapping back and forth between rhythm and lead as Frampton is. But I'm working on it, and with only one amp too  -Rod-

EDIT: I forgot to add that once I pushed the attenuator up high enough to allow the volume to go to 100%, the heat finally showed itself in the casing. It was warm, not hot, after 30 minutes with the volume at 10 and the attenuator as high as I could get it without shutting the sound completely down. Wild guess would be about 120 degrees, hot enough to notice but not hot enough to be uncomfortable to hold. The tubes did not red-plate nor did the smell indicate any overheating, though it was more than what I'd expect at regular bedroom levels. 

If I can figure out the speaker cone vibration/buzz that I think lies in the lows and mids somewhere, I'll be good to go. If anyone has thoughts on that, I'd appreciate them. Pretty sure it can be dialed out in the EQ though.


----------



## bman

Jws said:


> Mickey - i have to admit after playing my dsl40c more and more i have found myself boxing up my pedals. I'm getting so much out of my guitar and the amp alone. I'm running the crunch channel with the gain switch engaged, and the amp cleans up just fine with my volume control. The ultra channel is still a bit of a challenge for me but I am it using more too.



I for one feel that too many pedals just get in the way of your tone. Always use the bare minimum you need.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

bman said:


> I for one feel that too many pedals just get in the way of your tone. Always use the bare minimum you need.



I agree, since getting this amp I only use a tuner - chorus - delay - clean boost in the loop. So nothing gets in the way of my guitar signal I plug straight into the amp


----------



## kingbee

I love my Mythical Overdrive in the front.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

I did 2 outdoor gigs this weekend and man the amp was a lot of fun to play the 1st one I did I had to really adjust the low end and the 2nd gig I did was a lot more fun it was outside but we were in a descent playing area with walls, this time I didn't place the amp on a Milk crate I used an ampwedge to angle it back a bit with the amp staying on the floor which helps with the low end loss.
Probably had the amp Master volume no higher than 4 and Lead 1 gain on 6 the amp was sounding very sweet and solo's were singing... the amp just felt great!


----------



## guitarman8

Gary Nelson said:


> Well, well, well, I recieved my JVM215c Wednesday the 30th, and I can't believe I wasted almost a whole year on the DSL40c! For my ears, a night and day difference, it sounds so close to my old JCM it is scary! Deep tones and clarity on the clean channel, and when I move to the crunch channel nice crunch with tone depth, good quality tone, and it has tone control to fine tune what you want to hear. I am very pleased I made the change. Again I do understand everyone hears differently and the 40c did not do that for me. I wish I could remember who it was on this site that told me 6 months ago if you got the cash, get the JVM. Well, I'm not rich by no means, but was able to squeeze together enough change to buy the JVM and now I'm happy again with my guitar sound. Happy Marshall purchaser again!



Interesting I bought a JVM410 combo and thought it was too well fenderish. I prefered my JCM800 and DSL401. But this amp sounds a little like the JVM but has more of the marshall tone I'm familiar with from my first 60's marshall super lead. This little amp just needs a different tube in V2. These Marshall 12ax7's do look interesting they're very busy inside and I guess on the hot side. Just changing v2 took away the overly brights with the stock tube.


----------



## Micky

guitarman8 said:


> Interesting I bought a JVM410 combo and thought it was too well fenderish. I prefered my JCM800 and DSL401. But this amp sounds a little like the JVM but has more of the marshall tone I'm familiar with from my first 60's marshall super lead. This little amp just needs a different tube in V2. These Marshall 12ax7's do look interesting they're very busy inside and I guess on the hot side. Just changing v2 took away the overly brights with the stock tube.



I agree, all the preamp tubes in this amp are worked hard, especially V2.

V2 is strictly a gain stage, where the output from V2a is fed directly (cascaded) into the input of V2b and then on to the tone stack. It's path is used by both channels, and it is critical to have a decent, hard-working tube there in order to not only handle the voltage and gain it creates, but a quiet, and not too harsh tube to control the brightness.

The chrome-plate Marshall tubes that ship stock are great tubes, but sometimes a little tweaking is necessary to match amp output to the speaker choice you have made. It is nice we have all these possibilities!


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Ok so i clipped C19 today just to try it and did not really care for it, I'm sure a 100pF would have been a little better but I will stick with the stock 470pF. The distortion is tighter more cutting and not as bass heavy with the stock cap which I like and need in a band setting, it just works with my gear so I'm definitely not messing with that anymore but had to at least try it for my self!


----------



## Micky

J.LaGrassa said:


> Ok so i clipped C19 today just to try it and did not really care for it, I'm sure a 100pF would have been a little better but I will stick with the stock 470pF. The distortion is tighter more cutting and not as bass heavy with the stock cap which I like and need in a band setting, it just works with my gear so I'm definitely not messing with that anymore but had to at least try it for my self!



That is exactly what I did. With the Man-O-War speaker I have, about 100pf works great! I think it measured 118pf?


----------



## AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing

Anyone prefer half power mode over full? Have posted about the harshness i was experiencing no matter what i did to tone stack, tried half power mode today. I feel like its "flatter" somehow...i got the volume on ultra pretty high (for me, like 3) and those high notes didnt make my eyes water this time. Also doesnt sound as thin to me. You guys agree or is that deafness ive been hoping for finally setting in?


----------



## J.LaGrassa

AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing said:


> Anyone prefer half power mode over full? Have posted about the harshness i was experiencing no matter what i did to tone stack, tried half power mode today. I feel like its "flatter" somehow...i got the volume on ultra pretty high (for me, like 3) and those high notes didnt make my eyes water this time. Also doesnt sound as thin to me. You guys agree or is that deafness ive been hoping for finally setting in?



I've only tried the 20W mode just to see what it was like and sounds good but I stay on the 40W mode and play the amp at louder than bedroom volumes, that's where the amp comes to life.


----------



## guitarman3001

AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing said:


> Anyone prefer half power mode over full? Have posted about the harshness i was experiencing no matter what i did to tone stack, tried half power mode today. I feel like its "flatter" somehow...i got the volume on ultra pretty high (for me, like 3) and those high notes didnt make my eyes water this time. Also doesnt sound as thin to me. You guys agree or is that deafness ive been hoping for finally setting in?



Yes, to me the 20 watt mode sounds warmer with the highs being less harsh. It also seems to have a bit of a looser feel, which I prefer my amps to have. Women is another story.


----------



## Micky

Personally I think cranking it up over 3-4 is what removes the brittleness...


----------



## bman

J.LaGrassa said:


> Ok so i clipped C19 today just to try it and did not really care for it, I'm sure a 100pF would have been a little better but I will stick with the stock 470pF. The distortion is tighter more cutting and not as bass heavy with the stock cap which I like and need in a band setting, it just works with my gear so I'm definitely not messing with that anymore but had to at least try it for my self!



Thank's for your honest feedback. I've been contemplating this move for awhile but don't really have an issue w/ the high end. I think the guitars you and I are using may be a little less brittle and biting than a standard Les Paul, SG, or Strat. My Mexican Strat is much more "ice picky" sounding on red channel than my wolfgang.


----------



## solarburn

Micky said:


> Personally I think cranking it up over 3-4 is what removes the brittleness...



Yeah this is where the power section starts to fill it out.


----------



## lordquilton

AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing said:


> Anyone prefer half power mode over full? Have posted about the harshness i was experiencing no matter what i did to tone stack, tried half power mode today. I feel like its "flatter" somehow...i got the volume on ultra pretty high (for me, like 3) and those high notes didnt make my eyes water this time. Also doesnt sound as thin to me. You guys agree or is that deafness ive been hoping for finally setting in?



I can live with half-power for rhythm, but it feels like the harmonics, "airy" highs and sting of single notes are neutered in that mode.


----------



## USAPatriot

J.LaGrassa said:


> I've only tried the 20W mode just to see what it was like and sounds good but I stay on the 40W mode and play the amp at louder than bedroom volumes, that's where the amp comes to life.



After I added my attenuator I did some A/B'ing between 20 and 40w with the volume dimed and the attenuator at ~99% and there's a bit more clarity in the 40w mode but also more heat smell to those tubes, but they're still not red plating. I had to back off the attenuator a bit as the sound was fading just a tad. At first I thought I'd waxed the tubes but tweaking it cleared the problem up. There's just no way I can turn this amp up without the attenuator but that's where the tone really is. Play as high as you dare on the volume and those nagging little problems seem to go away. I think I'm getting better mids in 20w mode so will examine that some more next practice. I played in 20w mode for the first 3 months that I had the amp and preferred it over 40w when I started experimenting, retubed, etc. -Rod-


----------



## Len

USAPatriot said:


> After I added my attenuator I did some A/B'ing between 20 and 40w with the volume dimed and the attenuator at ~99% and there's a bit more clarity in the 40w mode but also more heat smell to those tubes, but they're still not red plating. I had to back off the attenuator a bit as the sound was fading just a tad. At first I thought I'd waxed the tubes but tweaking it cleared the problem up. There's just no way I can turn this amp up without the attenuator but that's where the tone really is. Play as high as you dare on the volume and those nagging little problems seem to go away. I think I'm getting better mids in 20w mode so will examine that some more next practice. I played in 20w mode for the first 3 months that I had the amp and preferred it over 40w when I started experimenting, retubed, etc. -Rod-



Dimed? Man, you must have a stack of cash you're wanting to blow on new tubes soon .


----------



## USAPatriot

Len said:


> Dimed? Man, you must have a stack of cash you're wanting to blow on new tubes soon .



It's okay...I have spares. I don't actually have a wad of cash but it's a given that I want the amp to sound the way I want it to versus what I'm stuck with. With the attenuator all the way up and the volume likewise, I have a lot of "buttroom" to work my way downwards if I want to. Bring the volume knob down and take some load off the tubes and the attenuator both. I may find a level below where I'm at that sounds as good. As far as I can tell, the attenuator itself isn't harming the tubes and any harm being done is no different than if I cranked it without the little box. In the real world, people are playing with their amps turned up, with and without attenuators. Like turning the bias up, there's a cost to it, but it doesn't seem an unreasonable one, considering. Okay, the tubes won't last 20 years. Maybe not 2. That's life  -Rod-

EDIT: Last night before I started practice I had the volume dimed, the attenuator turned all the way down...meaning not being used...and the guitar down as well, and let it sit for 15 minutes. When I came back upstairs the heat levels and smell were pretty much identical to what I've been seeing using the attenuator. Volume = heat, attenuated or not. It's a matter of where the energy is going. Time will tell whether or not the attenuator is soaking it all up. I've even thought of getting a digital thermometer set up behind the amp at the vent to monitor and document the heat levels. Maybe one of those wireless indoor/outdoor weather units. Knowledge is power. -Rod-


----------



## J.LaGrassa

USAPatriot said:


> It's okay...I have spares. I don't actually have a wad of cash but it's a given that I want the amp to sound the way I want it to versus what I'm stuck with. With the attenuator all the way up and the volume likewise, I have a lot of "buttroom" to work my way downwards if I want to. Bring the volume knob down and take some load off the tubes and the attenuator both. I may find a level below where I'm at that sounds as good. As far as I can tell, the attenuator itself isn't harming the tubes and any harm being done is no different than if I cranked it without the little box. In the real world, people are playing with their amps turned up, with and without attenuators. Like turning the bias up, there's a cost to it, but it doesn't seem an unreasonable one, considering. Okay, the tubes won't last 20 years. Maybe not 2. That's life  -Rod-
> 
> EDIT: Last night before I started practice I had the volume dimed, the attenuator turned all the way down...meaning not being used...and the guitar down as well, and let it sit for 15 minutes. When I came back upstairs the heat levels and smell were pretty much identical to what I've been seeing using the attenuator. Volume = heat, attenuated or not. It's a matter of where the energy is going. Time will tell whether or not the attenuator is soaking it all up. I've even thought of getting a digital thermometer set up behind the amp at the vent to monitor and document the heat levels. Maybe one of those wireless indoor/outdoor weather units. Knowledge is power. -Rod-




I have a pedal I built with just a volume pot in it that I can use in the loop so I can crank the master volume and still keep the amp at super low volumes, the power tubes just see a very small signal so they dont work very hard. Its not a power soak but the results are similar!


----------



## mickeydg5

J.LaGrassa said:


> I have a pedal I built with just a volume pot in it that I can use in the loop so I can crank the master volume and still keep the amp at super low volumes, the power tubes just see a very small signal so they dont work very hard. Its not a power soak but the results are similar!


Which amplifier is this referencing?


----------



## USAPatriot

J.LaGrassa said:


> I have a pedal I built with just a volume pot in it that I can use in the loop so I can crank the master volume and still keep the amp at super low volumes, the power tubes just see a very small signal so they dont work very hard. Its not a power soak but the results are similar!



It's just a pot? That energy has to go somewhere, I'd think. It's an interesting thought, not one I'd have thought of, for sure. I think I'd be tweaking it so the tubes are at least getting a moderate workout...but it seems they are keeping their character since you don't mention it not working well. That's a cool idea. I wonder if one of these power soaks could be repurposed in the loop using instrument jacks? -Rod-


----------



## J.LaGrassa

mickeydg5 said:


> which amplifier is this referencing?



dsl40


----------



## mickeydg5

OK, if DSL40C then the homemade volume pedal is right behind the amplifier's volume controls which are actually master volumes. That is redundant but it will cut more highs out.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

USAPatriot said:


> It's just a pot? That energy has to go somewhere, I'd think. It's an interesting thought, not one I'd have thought of, for sure. I think I'd be tweaking it so the tubes are at least getting a moderate workout...but it seems they are keeping their character since you don't mention it not working well. That's a cool idea. I wonder if one of these power soaks could be repurposed in the loop using instrument jacks? -Rod-



its a 25k pot, the signal in the fx loop is not that much power. all your doing is attenuating the signal path to the power tubes, you could use a volume pedal in the loop it would do the same thing.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

mickeydg5 said:


> OK, if DSL40C then the homemade volume pedal is right behind the amplifier's volume controls which are actually master volumes. That is redundant.



I was using it as a solo boost, the pedal was setup up with a foot switch. with the pot in the ckt i could dial back the over all volume for rhythm and for a solo I would step on the foot switch and bypass the pot and get the amps normal volume which gave me a boost but is really the amps normal volume!


----------



## mickeydg5

J.LaGrassa said:


> I was using it as a solo boost, the pedal was setup up with a foot switch. with the pot in the ckt i could dial back the over all volume for rhythm and for a solo I would step on the foot switch and bypass the pot and get the amps normal volume which gave me a boost but is really the amps normal volume!


Ah, now I understand, it is bypassable. That makes good sense.


----------



## USAPatriot

J.LaGrassa said:


> I was using it as a solo boost, the pedal was setup up with a foot switch. with the pot in the ckt i could dial back the over all volume for rhythm and for a solo I would step on the foot switch and bypass the pot and get the amps normal volume which gave me a boost but is really the amps normal volume!





mickeydg5 said:


> Ah, now I understand, it is bypassable. That makes good sense.



I'm with you. Very smart : -Rod-


----------



## AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing

Yes, I feel like more mids on half power mode, exactly. Less thin, less pain in the earholes. Like, I can turn it up without turning up those high mids/treble I was getting at full power. It gets louder but in a flat way. Loud, but not hurty. Dig? I dunno. Maybe it's all in my head.

If it isn't, are you saying full power mode only "flattens out" like that when really cranked (5, 6 on volume)?


----------



## guitarman8

Micky said:


> I agree, all the preamp tubes in this amp are worked hard, especially V2.
> 
> V2 is strictly a gain stage, where the output from V2a is fed directly (cascaded) into the input of V2b and then on to the tone stack. It's path is used by both channels, and it is critical to have a decent, hard-working tube there in order to not only handle the voltage and gain it creates, but a quiet, and not too harsh tube to control the brightness.
> 
> The chrome-plate Marshall tubes that ship stock are great tubes, but sometimes a little tweaking is necessary to match amp output to the speaker choice you have made. It is nice we have all these possibilities!



Yes my amp is sounding great now, still plenty of treble but plenty of bass with the bass controls. I've been lost in wah wah land this past week switching my 73 vox king wah over to the new 535q crybaby. Two very good wah pedals. The crybaby is very bright with a wide sweep but the Vox is high on gain and deep bass. Tuff to figure which I like best. Tricky beast using a wah pedal I've been listening to Jimi Hendrix electric lady land CD. Some beautiful wah work on that disc. I'm leaning towards the Vox King wah for the added gain and bass. Too much fun really, enjoy


----------



## J.LaGrassa

USAPatriot said:


> I'm with you. Very smart : -Rod-



Here is a picture of it in case your wondering what it looks like, its a handy little box!


----------



## wolfpack

Micky said:


> Personally I think cranking it up over 3-4 is what removes the brittleness...



For me all it took was changing V2 to a JAN 5751 & a speaker swap to a WGS Classic Lead
ZERO fizz & brittleness
No C19 mod necessary
Sounds  Excellent even at low low volumes


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Decided to sell my Creamback 75 I have a Eminence CV-75 on the way, suppose to be voiced like the older Vintage 30's. A demo I heard i really liked the warmer voicing of it compared to the Creamback, I should have it on Monday!


----------



## mickeydg5

A/B them for comparison.


----------



## Swede

J.LaGrassa said:


> Decided to sell my Creamback 75 I have a Eminence CV-75 on the way, suppose to be voiced like the older Vintage 30's. A demo I heard i really liked the warmer voicing of it compared to the Creamback, I should have it on Monday!



going through speakers like a mad man

Yeah A/B would be awesome.


----------



## MarshallDog

Can anyone confirm that R71 (100K/0.5W) is the -fb resistor and if not, which one is it? I think it is but want to be sure. 

Why, I am thinking of dropping it to 50K (100K//100K) just to see what it does to the tone. My guess is that it will mellow the amp a bit and take away that high end thinness/aggressiveness. I know that increasing it makes the amp more in your face/ballsy sounding. I have tried this on other amps and that was the result so I was thinking about trying it....

Thanks MF Brothers...


----------



## Micky

Yes.
It is fed by the PI thru a cap to the 16-ohm tap of the OT.
That same line (after the cap and before the -fb resistor) feeds the resonance/presence circuit.

Be sure to post your results here, as well as photos if you can!


----------



## mickeydg5

Micky got it first.


----------



## MarshallDog

Micky said:


> Yes.
> It is fed by the PI thru a cap to the 16-ohm tap of the OT.
> That same line (after the cap and before the -fb resistor) feeds the resonance/presence circuit.
> 
> Be sure to post your results here, as well as photos if you can!



Thanks guys...I am hooking up some mini jumpers to R71 right now and running them out the back so I can connect the 100K. This will allow me to connect and disconnect it w/o doing any soldering to make sure I like it first.
I'll let ya know how it goes...


----------



## USAPatriot

J.LaGrassa said:


> Here is a picture of it in case your wondering what it looks like, its a handy little box!



There's a lot going on there. Is there a solder joint inside the shrink tubing bottom right? It looks like there must be but it's unclear. -Rod-


----------



## Micky

mickeydg5 said:


> Micky got it first.



The Micks got it covered here!


----------



## MarshallDog

MarshallDog said:


> Thanks guys...I am hooking up some mini jumpers to R71 right now and running them out the back so I can connect the 100K. This will allow me to connect and disconnect it w/o doing any soldering to make sure I like it first.
> I'll let ya know how it goes...



Well, I just played the amp for about 10 minutes or so and all I can say is WOW! It is the exact tone I have been looking for . It simply takes that upper upper high end shriek when you are playing up on the high strings and I only have my presence set on 3 so there is still a lot of room to go if needed. I was able to play it stock then within seconds clip the 100K in place and you can tell the difference!!! It just sounds a touch thicker and richer. Metal players may not like it.I think I will solder in the 100K and then maybe down the road if I have the PCB out, put a 47K resistor in place. Anyone interested can try this easily if you have a set of small micro jumpers. I use this practice a lot, saves unwanted solder and messing things up.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Swede said:


> going through speakers like a mad man
> 
> Yeah A/B would be awesome.



ha ha yeah but its fun trying these out, I have a clip of the Creamback 65, Creamback 75 and will make one of the CV-75 when I get it.


----------



## Micky

So you piggybacked another 100K on top of the 100K?
Makes sense lowering that resistor...

Nice find!

But how does that affect the Presence and Resonance controls?


----------



## guitarman3001

wolfpack said:


> For me all it took was changing V2 to a JAN 5751 & a speaker swap to a WGS Classic Lead
> ZERO fizz & brittleness
> No C19 mod necessary
> Sounds  Excellent even at low low volumes




Hrmm...so a 5751 in V2, huh? I just so happen to have a Jan GE 5751 sitting right here in front of me. I tried it in V1 a while ago and it didn't do much but I never tried it in V2. 

Gonna give it a try right now and see what happens.


----------



## MarshallDog

Micky said:


> So you piggybacked another 100K on top of the 100K?
> Makes sense lowering that resistor...
> 
> Nice find!
> 
> But how does that affect the Presence and Resonance controls?



The tone was so much better that I pulled the board, removed the 100K and put in a 47K +/- 5% resistor. I have all of the connectors labeled so pulling the board is not a big deal. The real pain is removing all the nuts and washers from the EQ pots on the front of the amp. The presence and resonance seem to work just fine its just that the amp is much richer and fuller sounding. Its a subtle change but it is noticeable.


----------



## MarshallDog

guitarman3001 said:


> Hrmm...so a 5751 in V2, huh? I just so happen to have a Jan GE 5751 sitting right here in front of me. I tried it in V1 a while ago and it didn't do much but I never tried it in V2.
> 
> Gonna give it a try right now and see what happens.



Interesting. I have been using a 5751 in V1 and it sounds great. Every now and then I pull it and try a different tube and I keep coming back to it. I even tried 5751's in all the slots and when I did that I didn't notice that much of a change if any change. Maybe I'll have to try moving it to V2 and see what happens.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

USAPatriot said:


> There's a lot going on there. Is there a solder joint inside the shrink tubing bottom right? It looks like there must be but it's unclear. -Rod-




its a resistor soldered to one leg of the LED, just wanted to make sure it didnt touch ground. I could have done a neater job I kind of slapped it together at work!


----------



## J.LaGrassa

wolfpack said:


> For me all it took was changing V2 to a JAN 5751 & a speaker swap to a WGS Classic Lead
> ZERO fizz & brittleness
> No C19 mod necessary
> Sounds  Excellent even at low low volumes




I've got a JJ 5751 stashed away, I may try that and see how it sounds.


----------



## guitarman3001

Tried it last night. The biggest difference I noticed with the 5751 in V2 is that now I can use the clean channel in clean mode and with the same EQ settings switch to the dirt channel and have both channels sound good. Not really sure what V2 does but the 5751 in there makes the EQ seem more consistent across both channels. 

I'll be using it like that at tonight's gig. 

Anyone try a 5751 in both V1 and V2? I don't have another 5751 to try that with but I'm curious to see what effect that would have.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

guitarman3001 said:


> Tried it last night. The biggest difference I noticed with the 5751 in V2 is that now I can use the clean channel in clean mode and with the same EQ settings switch to the dirt channel and have both channels sound good. Not really sure what V2 does but the 5751 in there makes the EQ seem more consistent across both channels.
> 
> I'll be using it like that at tonight's gig.
> 
> Anyone try a 5751 in both V1 and V2? I don't have another 5751 to try that with but I'm curious to see what effect that would have.



V2 adds 2 more cascaded gain stages so the 5751 is lowering the gain factor a little to both those stages. 5751 in V1 will drop the gain as well so you may lose some punch there, it could be a good or bad thing but probably worth trying.


----------



## riefil

Has anyone tried a DSL through a 4x10? I had tried a DSL15H through my 1965B when I was demoing the cab. I found it kind of Nasally. Could be the 6V6s. I wasn't able to try either a 40c or 100h. I bought the cab after hearing my Maz18 through it. I'm still thinking of going with a DSL to get my Marshall fix. I Love love love the JVM but way beyond my budget right now. I have read through about 50 pages of this thread and think I could remedy the highs I've heard from the 40c. Just wondering if the 100H would suit me better being I love my cab. Any thoughts or experience with same or similar cabs?

Thanks, 

Phil


----------



## Micky

J.LaGrassa said:


> V2 adds 2 more cascaded gain stages so the 5751 is lowering the gain factor a little to both those stages. 5751 in V1 will drop the gain as well so you may lose some punch there, it could be a good or bad thing but probably worth trying.



A 5751 is similar to a 12AT7, but not quite. I have used 12AT7's in V2 to tame gain before.

Here is some info everyone should read:

www.thetubestore.com - Preamp Tube Gain Factor


----------



## guitarman3001

riefil said:


> Has anyone tried a DSL through a 4x10?












Will be using that same setup at tonight's gig.


----------



## riefil

guitarman3001 said:


> Will be using that same setup at tonight's gig.




Me Likey


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

guitarman3001 said:


> Will be using that same setup at tonight's gig.



I never realized that the DSL40C was nearly as big as the 4x10. Cool rig!


----------



## rpinon69

I installed a Eminence Man O War yesterday and jammed for a good 4 hours. WOW! What a difference in the low end punch the highs coming through clear had to tweak EQ but didn't take long to dial in. If it it sounds this good now I assume it gets better as the speaker breaks in.


----------



## AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing

Wondering what is actually involved in changing out the speaker? Do i need soldering skills or is it all screws?


----------



## rpinon69

AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing said:


> Wondering what is actually involved in changing out the speaker? Do i need soldering skills or is it all screws?



Phillips screw driver is all you need very straight forward just make sure you get polarity correct on speaker connection.


----------



## guitarman3001

Greatwhitenorth said:


> I never realized that the DSL40C was nearly as big as the 4x10. Cool rig!




It's actually a hair wider than the 4x10 cab. Not enough to where it looks odd but it is wider.


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

guitarman3001 said:


> It's actually a hair wider than the 4x10 cab. Not enough to where it looks odd but it is wider.



How was the gig?


----------



## guitarman3001

Greatwhitenorth said:


> How was the gig?



Just ok. It's one of our regular venues, maybe once every 5 or 6 weeks, and it's hit or miss. Sometimes it's packed with people dancing and drunk hot chicks coming up on stage and groping me, other times it's dead with just a couple of drunks passed out at the bar. Last night was closer to the latter. 

Beats staying at home but it does kind of suck playing to an empty room. The second set was ok but by the end of the night it was so dead that the owner cut us loose about half hour early.


----------



## AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing

Cool. I'm still on the fence about keeping it, but liking half power mode more than full, for some reason (EQ seems flatter, not as piercing highs/high mids), so if I do I will start looking into "thicker" less trebly speakers.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

The Marshall was rocking last night.... that is all!


----------



## bman

*What speaker is this?*

I just picked up a used Celestion today for$50 and im going to try it in my DSL40. I'm not sure what it is because the cap has the Marshall logo and in gold writing it says G12, 8ohms Vintage. Made in Suffolk, England. My guess would be maybe a vintage 30? If anyone knows please chime in. I figured for $50 it was worth a try


----------



## bman

*Re: What speaker is this?*



bman said:


> I just picked up a used Celestion today for$50 and im going to try it in my DSL40. I'm not sure what it is because the cap has the Marshall logo and in gold writing it says G12, 8ohms Vintage. Made in Suffolk, England. My guess would be maybe a vintage 30? If anyone knows please chime in. I figured for $50 it was worth a try



Okay I still don't know what type of UK vintage this is, but I would sure like to know! After a 45 minute demo the mids are tighter and more complex than the stock speaker and the bright high-end is gone, gone, gone. I actually have turned the high and presence nobs to 6 and it still isn't close to being as bright as the stock 70/80 speaker. Is there anyway to find out exactly what speaker this is including wattage rating?


----------



## Micky

PM Marty or George, they are the speaker experts...


----------



## bman

Thanks Micky, I reached out to Marty...Not sure who George is.


----------



## Micky

bman said:


> Thanks Micky, I reached out to Marty...Not sure who George is.



George76 is a veritable fountain of speaker info, especially Celestions.
He has forgotten more about speakers than I will ever know...


----------



## mickeydg5

*Re: What speaker is this?*



bman said:


> I just picked up a used Celestion today for$50 and im going to try it in my DSL40. I'm not sure what it is because the cap has the Marshall logo and in gold writing it says G12, 8ohms Vintage. Made in Suffolk, England. My guess would be maybe a vintage 30? If anyone knows please chime in. I figured for $50 it was worth a try





bman said:


> Okay I still don't know what type of UK vintage this is, but I would sure like to know! After a 45 minute demo the mids are tighter and more complex than the stock speaker and the bright high-end is gone, gone, gone. I actually have turned the high and presence nobs to 6 and it still isn't close to being as bright as the stock 70/80 speaker. Is there anyway to find out exactly what speaker this is including wattage rating?


If it is labeled Marshall as well as Vintage and G12 it is Marshall's proprietary G12V at 70 watts power rating, the original Vintage speaker, the best Vintage speaker in my opinion. An 8 ohm should be marked T3896.


----------



## bman

*Re: What speaker is this?*



mickeydg5 said:


> If it is labeled Marshall as well as Vintage and G12 it is Marshall's proprietary G12V at 70 watts power rating, the original Vintage speaker, the best Vintage speaker in my opinion. An 8 ohm should be marked T3896.


Right on...This is how it is labeled...Quite a step up from the 70/80 imo


----------



## bman

*Re: What speaker is this?*



mickeydg5 said:


> If it is labeled Marshall as well as Vintage and G12 it is Marshall's proprietary G12V at 70 watts power rating, the original Vintage speaker, the best Vintage speaker in my opinion. An 8 ohm should be marked T3896.



This is the exact speaker. Sounds freakin awesome. I hope im not under powering it w/ 40watts.


----------



## mickeydg5

*Re: What speaker is this?*



bman said:


> This is the exact speaker. Sounds freakin awesome. I hope im not under powering it w/ 40watts.


You cannot under power it. It is an efficient speaker at 100dB with 1 watt.
You do not want to over power speakers. The wattage rating is the maximum.


----------



## bman

Alright starting to feel like the dead horse is being beaten but here is what i have learned. After trying several different tubes in various valve positions I noticed small or subtle changes in this amps tone. However, after ditching the 70/80 speaker and installing a broken-in Vintage 30, the transformation is HUGE! For those who have swapped speakers, you already know. Doesn't matter the flavor, greenback,creamback,vintage30 as long as it is a high-end professional series speaker, the DSL40 will sound freaking amazing. I get much more gain before it turns to mush, a smoother more subtle high end and a tighter more complex midrange. Instead of clipping things and screwing with the board simply install a premium speaker and you will not regret it! I didnt realize how bad the stock speaker was, in fact I think i defended it in the past. Rock on people of the forum!


----------



## bman

*Speaker is the deal breaker!*

Alright starting to feel like the dead horse is being beaten but here is what i have learned. After trying several different tubes in various valve positions I noticed small or subtle changes in this amps tone. However, after ditching the 70/80 speaker and installing a broken-in Vintage 30, the transformation is HUGE! For those who have swapped speakers, you already know. Doesn't matter the flavor, greenback,creamback,vintage30 as long as it is a high-end professional series speaker, the DSL40 will sound freaking amazing. I get much more gain before it turns to mush, a smoother more subtle high end and a tighter more complex midrange. Instead of clipping things and screwing with the board simply install a premium speaker and you will not regret it! I didnt realize how bad the stock speaker was, in fact I think i defended it in the past. Rock on people of the forum!


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Got my Eminence CV-75 today and installed it... dam what a speaker! Its suppose to be based on the old Vintage 30s from the 80s, initial impression is its a solid sounding speaker very tight with warmer mids and pleasing highs. I like it more than the Creambacks I tried, it will add some weight its got a 56 Oz magnet with a 102db sensitivity rating.

Will get a clip up shortly!!


----------



## J.LaGrassa

here is a little clip of the CV-75, no fancy recording technique I just stuck the recorder about 8" from the speaker. Starts of on the clean channel then to Lead 1 just some mindless playing.

This speaker sounds like it crunches up sooner, cant wait to start cranking this speaker!

[SC]https://soundcloud.com/jlagrassa-1/cv-75[/SC]


----------



## bman

J.LaGrassa said:


> here is a little clip of the CV-75, no fancy recording technique I just stuck the recorder about 8" from the speaker. Starts of on the clean channel then to Lead 1 just some mindless playing.
> 
> This speaker sounds like it crunches up sooner, cant wait to start cranking this speaker!
> 
> [SC]https://soundcloud.com/jlagrassa-1/cv-75[/SC]



Sounds good and superb playing BTW!


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

I'm seriously looking at getting either a V30 or a WGS Vet30 for my DSL. You guys are killing me here.


----------



## bman

Greatwhitenorth said:


> I'm seriously looking at getting either a V30 or a WGS Vet30 for my DSL. You guys are killing me here.



IMO you cant go wrong w/ a v30. Not much advantage on the clean channel but the gain channel through this is the shit!


----------



## Jethro Rocker

I love my V30 in mine as well. Never gave the 70/80 a chance as I sold it with my little Peavey I stole the V30 from.


----------



## USAPatriot

*Re: Speaker is the deal breaker!*



bman said:


> Alright starting to feel like the dead horse is being beaten but here is what i have learned. After trying several different tubes in various valve positions I noticed small or subtle changes in this amps tone. However, after ditching the 70/80 speaker and installing a broken-in Vintage 30, the transformation is HUGE! For those who have swapped speakers, you already know. Doesn't matter the flavor, greenback,creamback,vintage30 as long as it is a high-end professional series speaker, the DSL40 will sound freaking amazing. I get much more gain before it turns to mush, a smoother more subtle high end and a tighter more complex midrange. Instead of clipping things and screwing with the board simply install a premium speaker and you will not regret it! I didnt realize how bad the stock speaker was, in fact I think i defended it in the past. Rock on people of the forum!



I love the V30 in my DSL40. This is the very closest I've been able to get to Norman Greenbaum and with just a little more push in the mids, I think I'll be the rest of the way there. There's just something very cool about my amp making farting noises. The little kid in me will never go away  The tough part is to keep it from farting all the time. I backed off on the attenuator a bit and that helped too. The wife crunched my hand between the couch and wall so I'm not playing this week. Thp! Have fun with the V30! -Rod-


----------



## MarshallDog

How many of you guys (and girls) use the "tone shift" button?? I use mine all the time. I feel it makes the amp fuller and richer sounding making the upper freq's sound fuller and allows the eq to be more fully used and I play LPS's. Whey do you think Marshall put that option on the amp? I could see if playing with LPS's (humbuckers) made the amp see too dark then you would not use it but I feel if you did not use it and played with a single coil guitar with the treble, mids and presence anything but low or at 0 would sound way too brite and thin. Just wondering what your thoughts are


----------



## Micky

With my Tele and Strat I turn it on, off with my LP.


----------



## MarshallDog

Micky said:


> With my Tele and Strat I turn it on, off with my LP.



I see. Where do you run your eq on the classic crunch channel?


----------



## Swede

MarshallDog said:


> I see. Where do you run your eq on the classic crunch channel?



Im interested in where this side topic goes, as I have not really played around with it at all, besides having it on once testing dialing in a mid scooped tone......Otherwise its been staying off the whole time.


----------



## Swede

Micky said:


> With my Tele and Strat I turn it on, off with my LP.



I just tried turning it on with a Stratocaster, and immdeiately liked it better than off

Thanks for the heads up. I didnt change my EQ at all, merely pressed the button.

In have been running my guitar volume at about 9, because between 9-10 I started to get some higher frequency screechiness that I didnt like, however, the difference in how the guitar picks up all the delicious tube crankage was lost keeping volume at below 10......

This fixed that entire problem


----------



## Micky

Cool it works for you. It is the first thing I tried when I got my amp.
The LP has 498T/490R pickups, and is kinda hot in comparison to everything else I have.
The Tele has an American Tele pickup in the bridge, and either an Enforcer or a Fender Atomic humbucker in the neck. These are pretty 'thin' in comparison to the LP. My Strat has an MHD custom set in it, they are all single coil, and except for the neck pickup, lack the balls the LP has.

I am still having difficulties with the Presence and Resonance controls though, seems like I wanna tweak those when I switch guitars also. So I leave them both at 5 until someone can explain them better to me...


----------



## Swede

Micky said:


> Cool it works for you. It is the first thing I tried when I got my amp.
> The LP has 498T/490R pickups, and is kinda hot in comparison to everything else I have.
> The Tele has an American Tele pickup in the bridge, and either an Enforcer or a Fender Atomic humbucker in the neck. These are pretty 'thin' in comparison to the LP. My Strat has an MHD custom set in it, they are all single coil, and except for the neck pickup, lack the balls the LP has.
> 
> I am still having difficulties with the Presence and Resonance controls though, seems like I wanna tweak those when I switch guitars also. So I leave them both at 5 until someone can explain them better to me...



I only really notice the Presence and resonance to make any difference once your in stage volume land.

Im gonna try out my Paul, and fiddle around with the tone shift also.....I just got my Les Paul back with new wiring new pickups, new bridge and new nut...Im stoked


----------



## Swede

I know it has to do with the Negative feedback loop.....frequences get lost and you re-insert them back in the mix with the presence (treble) and resonance (bass).

It is SO hard to understand...someone was explaining it to me, and I still didnt quite get it.


----------



## USAPatriot

MarshallDog said:


> How many of you guys (and girls) use the "tone shift" button?? I use mine all the time. I feel it makes the amp fuller and richer sounding making the upper freq's sound fuller and allows the eq to be more fully used and I play LPS's. Whey do you think Marshall put that option on the amp? I could see if playing with LPS's (humbuckers) made the amp see too dark then you would not use it but I feel if you did not use it and played with a single coil guitar with the treble, mids and presence anything but low or at 0 would sound way too brite and thin. Just wondering what your thoughts are



I use it off and on. Right now it's in use as it fits what I'm doing. I've got a 2014 LP Standard, and these new ones have a lot going on in them. I can dial the darkness out if I choose to but it's touchy, just a small tweak of the knob can make or break the tone. I've had it off for most of the last 2 months. This month, it's working for me. -Rod-


----------



## AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing

I'd mentioned possibly returning the amp, im thinking now im going to stick with it. Question is, how to make it BETTER? I like the idea of starting with speaker swap...but which of 10 billion speakers to choose? Im more particular about my high gain (i.e lead 1 -and 2 tones than my clean/crunch). I favor hard-rock-but-not-quite-metal tones like alice in chains, guns n roses (rhythm), the cult, etc. 

My issues right now with lead 1 are that highs/high mids are literally painful even with presence down, treble down, mids in middle (5 i think). I have to say that im judging this by lead 1 with the master at 2 or 3 if full power mode, (which is as loud as i can stand it), 3 or 4 in half power mode (which seems a little less "prickly" to me), tone shift out, about ten feet away (as far ad i can get, in a fairly small room/apartment with tile floors everywhere--(wondering if thats making the highs that much worse). 

Any speaker recommendations? Hopefully on the cheaper side? I have the two speakers that originally came in my circa 2000 hot rod deville 212, though i have no idea if theyd be appropriate or a viable match.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

MarshallDog said:


> How many of you guys (and girls) use the "tone shift" button?? I use mine all the time. I feel it makes the amp fuller and richer sounding making the upper freq's sound fuller and allows the eq to be more fully used and I play LPS's. Whey do you think Marshall put that option on the amp? I could see if playing with LPS's (humbuckers) made the amp see too dark then you would not use it but I feel if you did not use it and played with a single coil guitar with the treble, mids and presence anything but low or at 0 would sound way too brite and thin. Just wondering what your thoughts are




I don't use the Tone shift I just don't have a need for that lower mid tone for classic and hard rock my McCarty cuts better with out it, guess if I played more metal it would come in handy.


----------



## slagg

AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing said:


> I'd mentioned possibly returning the amp, im thinking now im going to stick with it. Question is, how to make it BETTER? I like the idea of starting with speaker swap...but which of 10 billion speakers to choose? Im more particular about my high gain (i.e lead 1 -and 2 tones than my clean/crunch). I favor hard-rock-but-not-quite-metal tones like alice in chains, guns n roses (rhythm), the cult, etc.
> 
> My issues right now with lead 1 are that highs/high mids are literally painful even with presence down, treble down, mids in middle (5 i think). I have to say that im judging this by lead 1 with the master at 2 or 3 if full power mode, (which is as loud as i can stand it), 3 or 4 in half power mode (which seems a little less "prickly" to me), tone shift out, about ten feet away (as far ad i can get, in a fairly small room/apartment with tile floors everywhere--(wondering if thats making the highs that much worse).
> 
> Any speaker recommendations? Hopefully on the cheaper side? I have the two speakers that originally came in my circa 2000 hot rod deville 212, though i have no idea if theyd be appropriate or a viable match.



Tile floors mess with the treble and mids.As for a speaker,WGS ET65 would smooth it out(YMMV).Alice in Chains/Guns and Roses, I like V30's,but you gotta push them.As for cheap? Don't skimp on speakers.they are the most important part of your tone.


----------



## Micky

slagg said:


> Tile floors mess with the treble and mids.As for a speaker,WGS ET65 would smooth it out(YMMV).Alice in Chains/Guns and Roses, I like V30's,but you gotta push them.As for cheap? Don't skimp on speakers.they are the most important part of your tone.



On the less expensive side, look at speakers made in the USA such as Eminence and Warehouse Guitar Speakers (WGS). Their better speakers can be had for generally less than $80, and premium speakers from them about twice as much. Musicians Friend generally has free shipping on speakers, so that helps a lot.

Anything that has to be shipped from England like Celestions will start out more expensive because of shipping costs... And personally I think Celestions are highly overrated. You can get as good or even better performance from lower cost alternatives.

As to which speaker? Look at what others have chosen in this thread. See what you can find a deal on. Look in the Member Classified for a used speaker for less $ than new. Trying every speaker you can gets expensive after a while, so go by the recommendations of others who own this amp.

I like to play the same sort of stuff as many others here, hard classic rock.
I have an Eminence Man-O-War in my DSL40c...


----------



## AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing

Well, I guess we need to define what we mean by "cheap"/"expensive"---I would say cheap = $100 or less, with several hundred being more expensive. I guess the benefit to going the Musician's Friend (Guitar Center?) route is that with their generous return policy, you could buy/try a variety and only keep the one you want. 

I always hear "v30s" bandied about. . .if I have to push them, may be no good, don't know how loud I'll be able to get this guy in various situations.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing said:


> I'd mentioned possibly returning the amp, im thinking now im going to stick with it. Question is, how to make it BETTER? I like the idea of starting with speaker swap...but which of 10 billion speakers to choose? Im more particular about my high gain (i.e lead 1 -and 2 tones than my clean/crunch). I favor hard-rock-but-not-quite-metal tones like alice in chains, guns n roses (rhythm), the cult, etc.
> 
> My issues right now with lead 1 are that highs/high mids are literally painful even with presence down, treble down, mids in middle (5 i think). I have to say that im judging this by lead 1 with the master at 2 or 3 if full power mode, (which is as loud as i can stand it), 3 or 4 in half power mode (which seems a little less "prickly" to me), tone shift out, about ten feet away (as far ad i can get, in a fairly small room/apartment with tile floors everywhere--(wondering if thats making the highs that much worse).
> 
> Any speaker recommendations? Hopefully on the cheaper side? I have the two speakers that originally came in my circa 2000 hot rod deville 212, though i have no idea if theyd be appropriate or a viable match.




The Eminence CV-75 I just installed is a V30 based speaker, definitely a lot warmer than the stock speaker and very tone-full and thick sounding... only $94.


----------



## Micky

The reason I go to MF is free shipping. Ever ship a speaker? Big $$$!

WGS makes a Vet30 that is similar to the Celestion V30.

Doesn't matter what you choose really*, it will be an upgrade...


*As long as it is not a Rocket 50 speaker...


----------



## guitarman3001

I chose a WGS Vet 30 because it is described as essentially a Celestion V30 but without as pronounced of an upper mid spike. To me that sounded perfect for this amp given that the amp already has enough of a mid spike built in the circuit.


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

I've heard lots of people say that the V30 is a dramatic improvement right away. Even before it is broken in. They have even said that the V30 sounds better at low volume as well. I'm considering it because I can buy it locally and not have to pay for shipping. The WGS speakers are much cheaper, but with shipping costs it puts them pretty close.


----------



## AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing

Sounds like a good place to start gents (or ladies!). Good point about shipping. Thanks.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Been playing the Eminence CV-75 a bit more and getting some solid tones out of it, it will definitely help if you thought your amp was to bright. I have my treble and presence at 12:00 now and mids I keep at 12:00 as well, Bass and resonance at 2:00 for a really fat and full tone. This speaker looks promising for being the one... I have a outdoor gig this Saturday so I will see how it performs with my band, it did add another 4lbs to the amp but so far the tone is worth it.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Greatwhitenorth said:


> I've heard lots of people say that the V30 is a dramatic improvement right away. Even before it is broken in. They have even said that the V30 sounds better at low volume as well. I'm considering it because I can buy it locally and not have to pay for shipping. The WGS speakers are much cheaper, but with shipping costs it puts them pretty close.



My V30 was already broken in, again, I did the C19 mod not to tame brightness but to make the biting tone of lead channel the same tone as crunch! That way when you switch from (I push the shit out of the front with a Bad Monkey) crunch to lead, the tone is very similar. The V30 seems to get excellent low end as well with a bit of resonance control. Sounds very f'ing good to me! Comparing to TSL, Jube, 6100...


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Jethro Rocker said:


> My V30 was already broken in, again, I did the C19 mod not to tame brightness but to make the biting tone of lead channel the same tone as crunch! That way when you switch from (I push the shit out of the front with a Bad Monkey) crunch to lead, the tone is very similar. The V30 seems to get excellent low end as well with a bit of resonance control. Sounds very f'ing good to me! Comparing to TSL, Jube, 6100...




I tried the C19 mod just to hear what it did but I personally didn't care for it I like the clarity that cap provides when using a descent amount of distortion on lead 1, also it helps keep the distortion and low end tight. 

This is such a kick ass and fun amp to play no matter how you get your tones!


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

I think I'm going to change the speaker first and then decide if I want to try the C19 mod. As for the Bad Monkey, he pushes my DSL too. I love that little bastard!


----------



## Micky

Greatwhitenorth said:


> I think I'm going to change the speaker first and then decide if I want to try the C19 mod. As for the Bad Monkey, he pushes my DSL too. I love that little bastard!



I wish I had done that... Waited that is.
I ended putting a smaller cap back into the circuit, based on my speaker choice.

The speaker is so critical in this little gem, It is nice to see so many others experimenting with their different speakers as well.

When I created this thread, I had no idea how popular this amp would become. It certainly does make me feel proud of everyone who posts here, as this thread is all about sharing info and relating experiences. I would have not become as good at troubleshooting and modding this amp if it had not been for all of YOU!


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Micky said:


> I wish I had done that... Waited that is.
> I ended putting a smaller cap back into the circuit, based on my speaker choice.
> 
> The speaker is so critical in this little gem, It is nice to see so many others experimenting with their different speakers as well.
> 
> When I created this thread, I had no idea how popular this amp would become. It certainly does make me feel proud of everyone who posts here, as this thread is all about sharing info and relating experiences. I would have not become as good at troubleshooting and modding this amp if it had not been for all of YOU!



I'm glad you started this thread... lots of great info in here.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Shows just how popular this little amp is. I'm sure we can't ALL be morons...


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

Jethro Rocker said:


> Shows just how popular this little amp is. I'm sure we can't ALL be morons...



My wife tells me I'm a moron all the time so it must be true.


----------



## MarshallDog

OK, attached are a few picks where I upgraded many of the tone circuit capacitors based on what DMSer had done several pages back. All the values are the same as the originals. The caps used are Mallorys (white ones) and Sprague Orange Drops. It makes a very subtle change in tone and seems to affect the really high high frequencies where they are now fuller and thicker sounding especially when playing way up on the E and B strings. Right now when I A/B this amp against my 1980 JMP 2204 with the same speakers (G12M's), guitar and EQ settings on Channel 1 Crunch, they sound about as close to each other as any two amps can. Put the amp into Ultra 1 or 2 and much more gain.

Here is a summary of my mods:

- NFB resistor to 47K.
- G12M-65 Creamback speaker.
- C4 and C19 gone.
- C50, C51, C54 to Mallory 22nF/630V caps.
- C10, C25, C29, C47, C55, C60 to Sprague Orange Drop 22nF/400V caps.
- C2, C3, C18, C24, C91 to Mallory 47nF/630V caps.
- Mullard El34's and JJ ECC8803-S (long plate) pre-amp
- Classic Tone choke added.
- Added the Belton Tube Shields to the (4) pre-amp tubes.

Reducing the NFB to 47K really made the amp sound less harsh and in your face and it cleans up much better just by rolling the volume back.

The only thing left may be upgrading the OT to the Classic Tone OT, not sure yet.


----------



## bman

MarshallDog said:


> OK, attached are a few picks where I upgraded many of the tone circuit capacitors based on what DMSer had done several pages back. All the values are the same as the originals. The caps used are Mallorys (white ones) and Sprague Orange Drops. It makes a very subtle change in tone and seems to affect the rally high high frequencies where they are fuller and thicker sounding especially when playing way up on the E and B strings. Right now when I A/B this amp against my 1980 JMO 2204 with the same speakers (G12M's), guitar and EQ settings on Channel 1 Crunch, they sound about as close to each other as any two amps can. Put the amp into Ultra 1 or 2 and much more gain.
> 
> Here is a summary of my mods:
> 
> - NFB resistor to 47K.
> - G12M-65 Creamback speaker.
> - C4 and C19 gone.
> - C50, C51, C54 to Mallory 22nF/630V caps.
> - C10, C25, C29, C47, C55, C60 to Sprague Orange Drop 22nF/400V caps.
> - C2, C3, C18, C24, C91 to Mallory 47nF/630V caps.
> - Mullard El34's and JJ ECC8803-S (long plate) pre-amp
> - Classic Tone choke added.
> - Added the Belton Tube Shields to the (4) pre-amp tubes.
> 
> Reducing the NFB to 47K really made the amp sound less harsh and in your face and it cleans up much better just by rolling the volume back.
> 
> The only thing left may be upgrading the OT to the Classic Tone OT, not sure yet.



You are a freaking mad scientist! Just upgrade the tubes and speaker and you have one of the best marshall combos ever!


----------



## MarshallDog

bman said:


> You are a freaking mad scientist! Just upgrade the tubes and speaker and you have one of the best marshall combos ever!



Already did that but now it's a Super DSL 40C


----------



## Swede

Awesome M-Dog.........How would you compare it to stock, or just to doing the c19 mod?

Assuming everybody changes speaker.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

I had 2 outdoor gigs this weekend it was great to help break in the CV-75 i usually hate playing outdoors but the amp still had a nice full sound!


----------



## MarshallDog

Swede said:


> Awesome M-Dog.........How would you compare it to stock, or just to doing the c19 mod?
> 
> Assuming everybody changes speaker.



For me the C19 mod was a must. However, after I did it I then found I wanted to try C4 witch is for the Clean/Crunch channel. I felt there was too much of a step difference between them. Now it is very close to the same sound with the main difference being Ultra 1 simply has more gain (gain set on 4) like kicking on an OD pedal.

Changing the caps is a very subtle change and I think the Mallory's are still breaking in. I was told by DMSer it may take a solid 10-12 hours of playing to get them broken in. However, the amp just seems thicker on the high high end. It did not make it dull or change the main tonal characteristics IMO.


----------



## Swede

Ive been having ample chances lately to crank my amp, and notice at high volume the cabinet starts makin some noise, (at certain notes only)

Is that something I have to live with or is there anything that can be done?

I was thinking maybe it was the fact that I have the WGS 50 watt speaker, and that its getting overloaded......(which is another reason Im building my 1x12 cab)

I had the amp at the 40 watt setting when it happened., crunch channel, gain at about 5, volume at about 7.5.....So VERY loud.


----------



## mickeydg5

Check to make sure everything is tight and secure. Combos do some vibrating.


----------



## Micky

There is a lot you can do.
Check my DSL5c thread to see what I did with my combo back screws to insure they always stay tight... I put in inserts like what is used for the speakers and used machine screws rather than the self-tapping screws that will loosen up after 2-3 times taking the back off.

Also check the wires to see they are secure.


----------



## MarshallDog

Like Micky states, check everything. I mean every single screw, nut, bolt in that amp and for any wires touching. I would even pop of the plastic EQ knobs and check the nuts behind them to make sure they are snug. 

I used to own a Marshall Haze 40C and I would get a vibration only when the volume was up and I would hold a long sustained low note, it really got under my skin because I could not find it. Well, one day a held a loud low note and just happen to be listening in the right spot and I pressed on the face plate and it stopped. Turned out the face plate was a bit loose as some of the glue let loose and once re-glued it was fine.

Point is, it can be anything and it may take some time to find it...


----------



## Swede

i took the back of and that cured 75% of the issue. SO either i"ll do what Micky suggested or I'll just fill up the holes with some tooth pics and re screw.

It happens mostly on F# on the low E.....that seems to be the frequency that gets it going.

I also tightened the 4 screws holding the head together, and the speaker screws.


----------



## YetiVanMarshall

Should I go for the cv75 or is the cv50 sufficient for this amp?

Thx


----------



## thebowl

Swede said:


> i took the back of and that cured 75% of the issue. SO either i"ll do what Micky suggested or I'll just fill up the holes with some tooth pics and re screw.
> 
> It happens mostly on F# on the low E.....that seems to be the frequency that gets it going.
> 
> I also tightened the 4 screws holding the head together, and the speaker screws.



Be very careful tightening speaker screws. You can wreck a speaker by over-tightening and twisting the basket.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

YetiVanMarshall said:


> Should I go for the cv75 or is the cv50 sufficient for this amp?
> 
> Thx




As far as I know there is no CV-50 just CV-75


----------



## AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing

LIstened to samples of vet30 (WGS) and CV-75. . .liked both, CV-75 Demo maybe sounded better, could've been choice of what he played/amp/guitar/etc. Hard to say. Like the price on CV (like price on both really). I guess they're both based off the "real" v30, so same idea behind both, different implementation (e.g. like Blackstar/Marshall)? Be nice to hear those speakers IN a DSL40c playing some hard rock.

Can someone explain how the speaker wattage thing works in relation to amp wattage? a 40 watt amp can really be 80 watts or something but see not when the ohms are oh wait huh what my brain just melted.


----------



## Micky

The Vet30 is an awesome speaker. Plus, anything from Eminence is just as awesome.

I am not gonna touch the wattage thing. All I am gonna say is, 40W is 40W.


----------



## AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing

I only ask 'cause I see people say "you really need an [x] wattage speaker for this amp, cause really it outputs [y] watts at peak so" ... oh crap my brain just melted again.

You would think 40 watt amp = 40 watt speaker (or more), and with that you'd be safe, but I dont know if that's right?


----------



## dave999z

The DSL40c outputs at 16 ohm or 8 ohm. If you replace the internal speaker with a 16 ohm speaker (like the stock speaker), plug it into the 16 ohm jack. If you replace it with an 8 ohm speaker, plug it into one of the two 8 ohm jacks. The CV-75 comes in 8 or 16 ohms. I'd pick 16.

As far as wattage, the amp outputs 40 watts, so the speaker needs to handle at least 40 watts. If you use a 20 watt rated speaker you'll likely blow it when you crank the amp. It is no problem using a higher rated speaker (e.g., a 75 watt speaker like the CV-75, or an 80 watt speaker like the stock Celestion Seventy 80), because you're not going to blow a 75 watt speaker with a 40 watt amp.

Just my $0.02, but if the CV-75 is supposed to be their version of the Celestion G12-T75 (I have no idea, not really familiar with Eminence, but from the name it made me wonder), then I wouldn't recommend it. I pulled a G12-T75 out of my 412 and put it in my DSL40c and hated it. I went with a WGS Invader for my DSL40c. Really like it. No affiliation whatsoever.


----------



## Skylarkpilot

Speakers are a whole subject just on their own. 
The guys that go with the Vintage 30's know that the speaker is a little light but probably aren't going to crank the volume all the way to the top.
Ultimately it's about how you're going to use the amp.
Marshall put an 80W in there to cope with headbangers like me who enjoy the hearing damage  When I wanted something a little fuller I changed the Seventy Eighty to a Super Lead, still a Celestion and eighty watts but a much bigger magnet and, to my half deaf ears, a better sound.
It's a truly personal thing.....


----------



## AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing

Thanks for the explanation. I liked the CV-75 demo, that's what intrigued me. There are other models like that one that try do the same thing, so if that one's no good I will look into others. 

So far amp rarely gets over 2-3 on channel volumes, but you never know what the future may hold. Rather future proof it (i.e. something that could handle being cranked), but also want something that will sound good at the lower volumes.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

dave999z said:


> The DSL40c outputs at 16 ohm or 8 ohm. If you replace the internal speaker with a 16 ohm speaker (like the stock speaker), plug it into the 16 ohm jack. If you replace it with an 8 ohm speaker, plug it into one of the two 8 ohm jacks. The CV-75 comes in 8 or 16 ohms. I'd pick 16.
> 
> As far as wattage, the amp outputs 40 watts, so the speaker needs to handle at least 40 watts. If you use a 20 watt rated speaker you'll likely blow it when you crank the amp. It is no problem using a higher rated speaker (e.g., a 75 watt speaker like the CV-75, or an 80 watt speaker like the stock Celestion Seventy 80), because you're not going to blow a 75 watt speaker with a 40 watt amp.
> 
> Just my $0.02, but if the CV-75 is supposed to be their version of the Celestion G12-T75 (I have no idea, not really familiar with Eminence, but from the name it made me wonder), then I wouldn't recommend it. I pulled a G12-T75 out of my 412 and put it in my DSL40c and hated it. I went with a WGS Invader for my DSL40c. Really like it. No affiliation whatsoever.




The CV-75 is voiced like the older V30's from the 80s its not a C12-T75 clone. Its a warm and fat sounding speaker with a tight low end!


----------



## Micky

Well I said I wouldn't get into the wattage thing, but here goes anyway...

A 40W amp is just that, 40W. You can put all the pedals, FX, boosts, whatever into it, but at the end of the day, the tubes put out 40W. You just cannot manufacture watts and make the finals put out more than they can handle. Sure, you and increase the voltage a bit, but at best you can get another 1-3% out of a pair.

Now, on the other hand, power ratings are always subject to interpretation, and unfortunately there is no ONE standard that everyone follows. RMS, peak, program, continuous and many other things are thrown about but it is meaningless unless put into context. If everyone followed the same standard there would be no confusion.

To me, power ratings of tube amps are pretty accurate. Speaker ratings are the same, unless you get into the SS realm, and then there is all sorts of confusion. This is why you will see true ratings like 50W into a 16-ohm load @ 1% THD from 30-3000 Hz at ambient temprature of 70 degrees at sea level. Just people covering their asses.

Reminds me of an Emerson stereo I saw once, right on the box it said 50 Watts. But in the specifications it was actually 2 watts, the 50W figure came from some unscrupulous engineer that rated that measly 2W at 50 watts peak program power from 500-5000 Hz at 10% THD into a 2-ohm load. That is not how tube amps are rated.

You can feel fairly safe using a 50W speaker with a 50W amp.


----------



## AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing

Cool. So long story short, anything at or over the amps wattage is a safe bet. I think. 

And the cv-75 is NOT a clone of that bad thing that was bad.


----------



## mickeydg5

Here is a little from Tony at Eminence on the power ratings subject.

Loudspeaker power handling | Eminence Speaker


----------



## Micky

mickeydg5 said:


> Here is a little from Tony at Eminence on the power ratings subject.
> 
> Loudspeaker power handling | Eminence Speaker



See? That is why I didn't really wanna comment, there are too many standards, and a dominant one does not exist. As long as people compare apples with oranges, we will have apples and oranges.


----------



## mickeydg5

When it comes to musical amplifiers I feel safe with using a 50 watt rated speaker on a 50 watt rated amplifier. Yes the tube amplifier when pushed may be capable of 80 or 90 watts output and as mentioned in the article this is music or program type power. So a 50 watt rated speaker is capable of handling 100 watt music or program power. In general just make sure to match or better the speaker rating to the musical amplifier output rating. If you want cleaner sound, more headroom then go to speakers with power ratings that far exceed the amplifier output.

All of these terms do have meaning. JBL's technical stuff is even farther out there. But just look at it simply as I described above.


----------



## AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing

Ah. Well I like it clean when I like it clean, and dirty when I want it dirty (tee hee). I guess if I'm going for a clean sound I don't want grit that I didn't dial in.


----------



## mickeydg5

Exactly and you have to find a likable balance.


----------



## kingbee

Skylarkpilot said:


> Speakers are a whole subject just on their own.
> *The guys that go with the Vintage 30's know that the speaker is a little light but probably aren't going to crank the volume all the way to the top.*
> Ultimately it's about how you're going to use the amp.
> Marshall put an 80W in there to cope with headbangers like me who enjoy the hearing damage  When I wanted something a little fuller I changed the Seventy Eighty to a Super Lead, still a Celestion and eighty watts but a much bigger magnet and, to my half deaf ears, a better sound.
> It's a truly personal thing.....




Celestion Vintage 30 speakers are 60 watts.


----------



## mickeydg5

And the Celestion Marshall Vintage speakers are 70 watts.


----------



## AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing

Well, listened to some more demos. Granted, they're not in the DSL40c, and I don't really play metal per se, but I keep liking the Vintage 30 whenever it's part of the demos, so whatever characteristics that has, that's basically a sound I like. The G12H30 is not bad either, seems like it's got more emphasis on a particularly unpleasant (to my taste) frequency that the V30 is flatter in. So that neighborhood of sound is what I'm after. I think.


----------



## Duffy49

I think that the Vintage 30 really shines when it is played cranked up pretty loud. I wouldn't mind having one at all, maybe not in the DSL, but in one of my amps.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing said:


> Well, listened to some more demos. Granted, they're not in the DSL40c, and I don't really play metal per se, but I keep liking the Vintage 30 whenever it's part of the demos, so whatever characteristics that has, that's basically a sound I like. The G12H30 is not bad either, seems like it's got more emphasis on a particularly unpleasant (to my taste) frequency that the V30 is flatter in. So that neighborhood of sound is what I'm after. I think.



The best test is to actually try the speakers that your interested in and hear how they react to your playing style listening to demos only goes so far, there are a few other V30 voiced speakers you can check out that are cheaper money. Celestion V-type - WGS Veteran 30/Retro 30 - Eminence Governor, Emininece CV-75... i'm sure there are others.


----------



## thebowl

Looks like I am going to have the opportunity to drop a cherry JBL D120F into my DSL40 tonight. A lifelong friend has been an amp and speaker geek for 30 years. He has a lot of crazy nice old stuff, and he knows what's valuable and what's not. 

I was beginning to roll some pre-amp tubes, but I think I will go back to stock to check this thing out. I will report back, FWIIW.


----------



## mickeydg5

A JBL D120F should be interesting to hear since the amplifier has so much built in distortion to apply.


----------



## Swede

Micky said:


> There is a lot you can do.
> Check my DSL5c thread to see what I did with my combo back screws to insure they always stay tight... I put in inserts like what is used for the speakers and used machine screws rather than the self-tapping screws that will loosen up after 2-3 times taking the back off.
> 
> Also check the wires to see they are secure.



Thanks are in order to you Micky.....I just changed to inserts and machine screws in the back. Only had to drill the holes out a little to fit the new inserts. (6/32") if Anybody is curious doing it.

As of now, my amp is quiet until the next things shakes loose.

Feels nice, cause now you can tighten the back properly.....and it looks better even with stainless steel screws instead of the black ones

AND......I can take it on and off as many times as I want too.


----------



## AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing

Hey, i am all for trying speakers but how to do so without buying? I guess there are places you could keep buying/trying/returning til you find the right match...is that what you mean?


----------



## Swede

AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing said:


> Hey, i am all for trying speakers but how to do so without buying? I guess there are places you could keep buying/trying/returning til you find the right match...is that what you mean?



WGS does one exchange within 30 days I believe...not sure if other companies do....I doubt any company does more than 1 exchange.


----------



## mickeydg5

Companies should work on a speaker swap program.
You can place a retainer, pay for shipping/handling for as many as you want to try out and do limited time trials with their speakers.

You damage it, then the retainer covers it and its yours.

It could work.


----------



## AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing

Darn. Was hoping if you ordered from musicians friend or gc their usual policies would apply. Never dealt with speakers before so maybe not?


----------



## J.LaGrassa

AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing said:


> Hey, i am all for trying speakers but how to do so without buying? I guess there are places you could keep buying/trying/returning til you find the right match...is that what you mean?



unfortunately you have to take a chance and buy them and if you dont like it sell it, obviously you will lose money like that but its the only way you will know if a speaker is any good with your rig. Buying used is a bit cheaper there are always some good deals out there!


----------



## AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing

Sounds like one of those propositions that could get quickly very expensive. 

Anway, listened to more demos. . .there are only a few CV-75 demos on youtube. . .likin' all the Veteran 30 stuff I heard, and also kinda the ET-65, though, as always, hard to tell cause of guitar type, music style, and amp being used in them demo. Not to mention mic'ing discrepancies.


----------



## Skylarkpilot

kingbee said:


> Celestion Vintage 30 speakers are 60 watts.



Absolutely........sorry, should have checked that before putting foot in mouth. I remembered that when I was looking at replacements the Vintage 30 was lighter than the stock in wattage. Two and two don't always make three !
The point was that the Vintage 30 was rated lower in wattage than the stock Seventy Eighty. Marshall clearly thought it needed a little more for whatever reason.


----------



## Duffy49

Skylarkpilot said:


> Marshall clearly thought it needed a little more for whatever reason.


 

Maybe because they know that some people will put strong distortions and boost pedals in front of them, etc., and then crank them. I suppose things like that could factor into the need for a stronger speaker.


----------



## AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing

Just read that thing about 1 exchange by wgs. Thats cool. At least its something. Vet 30 seems like a safe place to start with them...maybe et65 if not? Maybe ill contact em for their advice.


----------



## So Cal Steve

Hey guys, first post here.

Just wanted to say my new DSL40C arrived a few days ago and I'm real happy with it right out of the box (although the tweaker in me has ordered a different speaker for it). I have a pair of JJ EL34L's on hand and a few 12AX7's but don't really feel the need to replace what's in there now.

I'm and old fart (52) and for me, the green Crunch mode covers alot of territory for the tones I grew up with. I play an SG and I've found running the TMB's and Gain dimed really gives that classic Marshall sound and just a push of the Tone Shift button scoops the mids enough at these settings for instant Black Sabbath type sounds.

Curious, has anyone else tries running the treb, mids and bass on 10? Most other amps I've tried that with just didn't sound good, even a JTM45, but this one does.

I do agree with most here that going from Green to Red gets too thin/trebly. This amp cleans up with the guitar's volume knob better than the Vintage Modern I had, but I may need to try the C19 clip if i want to use it as a channel switcher. 

I guess I can experimant a little more with rolling the tone down on the guitar if I go to the red channel, but that might be cumbersome.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

So Cal Steve said:


> Hey guys, first post here.
> 
> Just wanted to say my new DSL40C arrived a few days ago and I'm real happy with it right out of the box (although the tweaker in me has ordered a different speaker for it). I have a pair of JJ EL34L's on hand and a few 12AX7's but don't really feel the need to replace what's in there now.
> 
> I'm and old fart (52) and for me, the green Crunch mode covers alot of territory for the tones I grew up with. I play an SG and I've found running the TMB's and Gain dimed really gives that classic Marshall sound and just a push of the Tone Shift button scoops the mids enough at these settings for instant Black Sabbath type sounds.
> 
> Curious, has anyone else tries running the treb, mids and bass on 10? Most other amps I've tried that with just didn't sound good, even a JTM45, but this one does.
> 
> I do agree with most here that going from Green to Red gets too thin/trebly. This amp cleans up with the guitar's volume knob better than the Vintage Modern I had, but I may need to try the C19 clip if i want to use it as a channel switcher.
> 
> I guess I can experimant a little more with rolling the tone down on the guitar if I go to the red channel, but that might be cumbersome.



The stock speaker will improve as it breaks in mine is no where near as shrill when it was brand new, it really doesn't shine until you hit it with some volume and cuts nicely in a band mix.
I would suggest changing tubes and breaking in the speaker of choice first before trying the C19 mod... I personally didn't like the mod.


----------



## slagg

Anybody know what value cap it is in c19?Maybe change the cap rather then removing it.The bright cap value I've always got along with was 4700pf/.0047 ceramic disc.(Super lead)


----------



## Micky

It is a 470p.

I lowered mine to a 120p and I love it now...


----------



## slagg

Thnkx for that Mickey.In my amp(homebrew Marshall type) 4700pf just adds more beef rather then brightness.More low mids get through.


----------



## thebowl

I spent the day yesterday rotating three different model speakers in my DSL 40C. They are among the most coveted 12" speakers ever built, I think it is fair to say. Even crazier, there were two copies of each model. They were the JBL D120F "Orange basket"; the Altec Lansing 417 8C, and the Gauss Model 2641. 

I got to keep one of each, and intend to spend a good bit of time with each installed. I will post more thoughts, as time permits. We did immediate comparisons, using my 1999 LP R9, same pick, same location, same music. Let's begin by saying that each of the speakers is truly inspiring. No knock agains the Celestion, but there is simply no comparison. My speaker Geek friend and I came to the same conclusions based on the tests. We rated the Gauss 1; the Altec Lansing 2, and the JBL 3. The Gauss is rated for 200 watts, weighs 22 pounds, and delivers the best bass response I have ever heard in a guitar amplifier. The AL may move into the first position, with more play. It delivered the cleanest, most natural sound at low volumes I have ever heard. With it, the Marshall basically becomes a tweed amp, albeit with a lot of growl. The JBL delivers the most "Marshally" sound of the three. Tight bass, clear mids, bright high end, but no ice-pick at all. 

I actually have a question of a technical nature. With several of the speakers, after a few minutes I got a sound like either a tea kettle beginning to boil, or the sounds in a car with a window slightly cracked. I was able to get rid of it by switching to standby, and then back to play. Can anyone diagnose this? I was removing the power tubes with each switch.


----------



## slagg

May have been power tubes not seated tightly.popping them in and out and all.


----------



## mickeydg5

That is a nice group of speakers.

I would not think the speakers are causing the noise /sound.
Is it a white noise or airy sound? If so those speaker are capable of a much higher frequency range than "guitar" type speakers and that may be what your are hearing while idle.


----------



## thebowl

It was just an airy sound. We assumed it wasn't the speakers, because it happened on more than one, but not all. It would rise in volume to a certain point, and then remain constant. But it would go away by switching into standby, and then back into play.


----------



## Micky

I have an inexpensive guitar cable that does that.


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

I got to play through my DSL40C at jam volume this weekend. I have never been so satisfied with my tone in my 11 years of playing and my amp is stock other than 2 preamp tubes. I absolutely love the green channel with the tubes cooking. I'm wondering if changing the speaker is even necessary for me...


----------



## So Cal Steve

Greatwhitenorth said:


> I got to play through my DSL40C at jam volume this weekend. I have never been so satisfied with my tone in my 11 years of playing and my amp is stock other than 2 preamp tubes. I absolutely love the green channel with the tubes cooking. I'm wondering if changing the speaker is even necessary for me...



It may not be. I agree, mine sounds great as is, but the curious side of me has to try a more robust speaker and find out.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Greatwhitenorth said:


> I got to play through my DSL40C at jam volume this weekend. I have never been so satisfied with my tone in my 11 years of playing and my amp is stock other than 2 preamp tubes. I absolutely love the green channel with the tubes cooking. I'm wondering if changing the speaker is even necessary for me...



I've been content with my amp using JJ Preamp tubes and JJ E34L power tubes with the stock 70/80 at volume that speaker sounds good like that.


----------



## guitarman8

Hey I setup this video today. Put the original marshall tubes back in 1&2 all back to stock. Just want show you what the Lexicon MPX100 can do for the sound. These things are just $100 on ebay. When I watched Jeff Beck at Ronnie Scotts he was using one.

Excuse the headless guitar player I got lazy and played in a chair, sound tones are good though. Great little combo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3nYnzUL5ds&feature=youtu.be


----------



## bman

So after much investigating I discovered my new speaker is the origional Vintage30 labeled marshall Vintage. This speaker is from the mid 80's so it is very well broken in . Tone is bad ass 70's through early 90's. If I want something more saturated, which I do on occasion, I guess I'll have to look for a new amp.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

bman said:


> So after much investigating I discovered my new speaker is the origional Vintage30 labeled marshall Vintage. This speaker is from the mid 80's so it is very well broken in . Tone is bad ass 70's through early 90's. If I want something more saturated, which I do on occasion, I guess I'll have to look for a new amp.



If you want a more saturated tone just add a mild OD pedal or boost to slam the input of your amp for those times you want it.


----------



## batmanrb89

Just sharing info on a simple mod I did to my DSL40C..... 

TUBE RATTLE. 

Noticed a slight ringing sound on certain low notes with bass emphasis. I picked up a variety set of o rings from Harbor Freight for $7.99 USD. Placed two on each preamp tube and two on each power tube. PROBLEM SOLVED. Much cheaper than TUBE Specific Dampers. I'm sure I don't need that many on all off the tubes, but the ringing is gone. When I have more time, I will test each tube with the rings to narrow it down. But the V1 tube does come with a Marshall Provided black rubber/Silicon Gasket on it. Hope this info helps anyone having this problem.


----------



## Swede

batmanrb89 said:


> Just sharing info on a simple mod I did to my DSL40C.....
> 
> TUBE RATTLE.
> 
> Noticed a slight ringing sound on certain low notes with bass emphasis. I picked up a variety set of o rings from Harbor Freight for $7.99 USD. Placed two on each preamp tube and two on each power tube. PROBLEM SOLVED. Much cheaper than TUBE Specific Dampers. I'm sure I don't need that many on all off the tubes, but the ringing is gone. When I have more time, I will test each tube with the rings to narrow it down. But the V1 tube does come with a Marshall Provided black rubber/Silicon Gasket on it. Hope this info helps anyone having this problem.



do you have a link to these rings or a better description/photo?


----------



## mickeydg5

I always thought those to be nothing more than O-rings.

Vacuum tube dampers = 10 pieces for $7
O-ring kit = 200 to 400 pieces for $7 (You just have to get the right diameters and heat resistance.)


----------



## USAPatriot

So Cal Steve said:


> Hey guys, first post here.
> 
> Just wanted to say my new DSL40C arrived a few days ago and I'm real happy with it right out of the box (although the tweaker in me has ordered a different speaker for it). I have a pair of JJ EL34L's on hand and a few 12AX7's but don't really feel the need to replace what's in there now.
> 
> I'm and old fart (52) and for me, the green Crunch mode covers alot of territory for the tones I grew up with. I play an SG and I've found running the TMB's and Gain dimed really gives that classic Marshall sound and just a push of the Tone Shift button scoops the mids enough at these settings for instant Black Sabbath type sounds.
> 
> Curious, has anyone else tries running the treb, mids and bass on 10? Most other amps I've tried that with just didn't sound good, even a JTM45, but this one does.
> 
> I do agree with most here that going from Green to Red gets too thin/trebly. This amp cleans up with the guitar's volume knob better than the Vintage Modern I had, but I may need to try the C19 clip if i want to use it as a channel switcher.
> 
> I guess I can experimant a little more with rolling the tone down on the guitar if I go to the red channel, but that might be cumbersome.



I tried it your way for quite a long time and finally clipped it and wasn't sorry that I did. My guitar is a 2014 Gibson Les Paul Standard, one of the new-fangled ones with the min-etune, push-pulls all around including a 15db boost, so there's a LOT of options at my fingetips.
But ultimately, rolling back the volume is cutting what the guitar is producing, which isn't the first and best way to go about things, at least if you prefer high gain crunch and OD tones. Dialing back the volume is probably excellent if you prefer cleaner tones or just a bit of breakup. If you spend most of your time on green crunch then C-19 actually isn't an issue for you at all, but if you go there occasionally, clipping it essentially makes Red2 and extension of Red1. With C-19 intact, they are two distinct species of animal, knowwhatImean?

To everyone...I'm back! My hand got crunched a bit worse than we thought and a week off turned into 3 or so. I've got my amp warming up now upstairs, first time in awhile. My callouses are a little weak...maybe I should have been hitting them with a hammer or something 
I'm thinking that maybe I'll get another 40C and run them in tandem  crazy lol -Rod-


----------



## Micky

Nice to have you back Rod!


----------



## batmanrb89

Swede said:


> do you have a link to these rings or a better description/photo?



This is the box I got. I didn't have the sizes with me so I got the variety box. 67580 was the item number. You can search it on there website. I'll post more info tomorrow when I'm on the computer. They aren't silicone or nitrile rubber. Just standard heat absorbing. I ran the amp pretty long and loud the past two nights with them on and had no issues.


----------



## MarshallDog

I love my DSL 40C and live in Crunch Mode but have recently needed some clean tones. So I have been simply manually (finger) toggling between church and clean and just wish this amp was switchable between clean and whatever other mode via a footswitch. So, how do,you guys deal with needing a lean tone on this amp...


----------



## Jethro Rocker

For the very occasional time I use clean, if I need to go to crunch then set lead 1 with lower gain and it is similar enough to work, put a boost in loop, or OD the front. Works for me plus you do have a separate gain control then for your crunchy sounds.


----------



## AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing

So far my clean IS crunch setting with gain at 2-4, since totally clean is just so blah. If i need od on top of that (but NOT high gain) i have a pedal, then i have lead 1 or 2 for high gain. Have also been experimenting with even another od (so two pedals) for more gain (a little crunch and then a lot) but still an od rather than a distortion sound, so many options.


----------



## Swede

MarshallDog said:


> I love my DSL 40C and live in Crunch Mode but have recently needed some clean tones. So I have been simply manually (finger) toggling between church and clean and just wish this amp was switchable between clean and whatever other mode via a footswitch. So, how do,you guys deal with needing a lean tone on this amp...



Just roll down the volume on the guitar....Tried and trued for 40 plus years.


----------



## lordquilton

Yeah, I'm with Swede. I got a strat recently and have been trying to get the best cleans from the amp. For me clean mode is a little pinched sounding at bedroom volumes. I run green channel on crunch mode with the gain back around 8 or so. Then just back the guitars volume off to 7, it's clean unless you hit too hard. 

It's a "warm" clean, you have to turn up the presence to get some sparkle. That in turn means it gets ear piercing when you roll the dirt back on, and I have to compensate with the tone controls on the guitar for that.


----------



## So Cal Steve

I'm getting what I want now from clean and dirty by switching pickups.

Mind you, I use lower gain - Green channel gain set to around 7 (hash mark). If I roll down the volume on the neck pickup to around 4 or less, I get a nice clean, then flip to the bridge pickup for dirt. 

To do this, I set the amp very bright for the neck pickup and roll the tone on the bridge pickup down to 6-7 to compensate. I can get a nice classic rock crunch with the bridge p/u on 7 and go to 10 for leads.

It is a compromise, though - not completely clean/clean. It's a shame because I think this amp has a really great Clean mode.


----------



## So Cal Steve

USAPatriot said:


> I tried it your way for quite a long time and finally clipped it and wasn't sorry that I did. My guitar is a 2014 Gibson Les Paul Standard, one of the new-fangled ones with the min-etune, push-pulls all around including a 15db boost, so there's a LOT of options at my fingetips.
> But ultimately, rolling back the volume is cutting what the guitar is producing, which isn't the first and best way to go about things, at least if you prefer high gain crunch and OD tones. Dialing back the volume is probably excellent if you prefer cleaner tones or just a bit of breakup. If you spend most of your time on green crunch then C-19 actually isn't an issue for you at all, but if you go there occasionally, clipping it essentially makes Red2 and extension of Red1. With C-19 intact, they are two distinct species of animal, knowwhatImean?
> 
> To everyone...I'm back! My hand got crunched a bit worse than we thought and a week off turned into 3 or so. I've got my amp warming up now upstairs, first time in awhile. My callouses are a little weak...maybe I should have been hitting them with a hammer or something
> I'm thinking that maybe I'll get another 40C and run them in tandem  crazy lol -Rod-



I do know what you mean. I think the Clean mode on this amp is very, very good. May end up doing the C19 mod if I find I really need clean/cleans and can get what I want from the Red channel with lower gain set.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Well what do ya know I decided to put back the stock tubes and speaker.... yep it still rocks just let that 70/80 break in.


----------



## MarshallDog

So Cal Steve said:


> I'm getting what I want now from clean and dirty by switching pickups.
> 
> Mind you, I use lower gain - Green channel gain set to around 7 (hash mark). If I roll down the volume on the neck pickup to around 4 or less, I get a nice clean, then flip to the bridge pickup for dirt.
> 
> To do this, I set the amp very bright for the neck pickup and roll the tone on the bridge pickup down to 6-7 to compensate. I can get a nice classic rock crunch with the bridge p/u on 7 and go to 10 for leads.
> 
> It is a compromise, though - not completely clean/clean. It's a shame because I think this amp has a really great Clean mode.



That's basically what I have been doing and it works OK. The issue is the volume drops so much. I am trying to set the Ultra Channel to sound like the Crunch which can be done with removing C19, it just has the ever slightest bit more compression. Then I can use that as my dirt channel and the Crunch as my clean but I really love the Crunch channel and don't want to give it up to a dedicated Clean Channel. I just wish Marshall would have used their head for more than a hat rack and made it so you could use the footswtich to switch between the Clean and Crunch modes...Oh well the only other real option is the Orange Rockerverb MKII 1X12 Combo but I am a Marshall man.


----------



## So Cal Steve

J.LaGrassa said:


> Well what do ya know I decided to put back the stock tubes and speaker.... yep it still rocks just let that 70/80 break in.



Honestly, I didn't notice a ton of difference with my speaker swap (Weber legacy/Scumback). More lows but that's about it. I think I would be fine with the stock speaker after this experiment.



MarshallDog said:


> That's basically what I have been doing and it works OK. The issue is the volume drops so much. I am trying to set the Ultra Channel to sound like the Crunch which can be done with removing C19, it just has the ever slightest bit more compression. Then I can use that as my dirt channel and the Crunch as my clean but I really love the Crunch channel and don't want to give it up to a dedicated Clean Channel. I just wish Marshall would have used their head for more than a hat rack and made it so you could use the footswtich to switch between the Clean and Crunch modes...Oh well the only other real option is the Orange Rockerverb MKII 1X12 Combo but I am a Marshall man.



Yeah, I don't really understand why they would voice the Red channel so much brighter than the Green without a separate EQ.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

So Cal Steve said:


> Yeah, I don't really understand why they would voice the Red channel so much brighter than the Green without a separate EQ.



I feel you need a bit more treble when using more distortion other wise it would be to muddy and wont cut that well in a band mix.


----------



## So Cal Steve

J.LaGrassa said:


> I feel you need a bit more treble when using more distortion other wise it would be to muddy and wont cut that well in a band mix.



Makes sense.

Just got done playing and really, I don't even think I'll ever use the Red channel.

For something like Free's All Right Now or Fire and Water, the Green Crunch gain on 9 with my SG's volume on 7-8 gives the right amount of rhythm crunch and rolling up to 10 for leads.

For these songs on Red, gain is under 2. It just has way more gain than I'll ever need.

That's really where I'm at. Push in the Tone Shift and I can get that slightly scooped Black Sabbath tone.


----------



## MarshallDog

So Cal Steve said:


> Honestly, I didn't notice a ton of difference with my speaker swap (Weber legacy/Scumback). More lows but that's about it. I think I would be fine with the stock speaker after this experiment.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I don't really understand why they would voice the Red channel so much brighter than the Green without a separate EQ.



Remove C19 and C4 and the brightness returns to a vintage sounding JMP if that is what you like. I did it and it sounds great. Lowering the negative feedback resistor helps a bunch and it. Means up better also....


----------



## Swede

MarshallDog said:


> Lowering the negative feedback resistor helps a bunch and it. Means up better also....



what exact mod is this?


----------



## So Cal Steve

I'M GOING TO HAVE TO EAT MY WORDS regarding the supposed EQ imbalance between the Green and Red channels.

I must admit that my earlier observations were at strictly low volume (conversational) levels.

Finally got to let 'er rip at shouting levels and they balance out perfectly. Volume is the key. On that note, I almost bought the 5 watt SL5, which may end up working better for me. Every time I get a gig-worthy amp I can't ever seem to find any guys my age to jam out with.

My test is always BTO's Let It Ride because you have a clean intro going into dirty rhythm. Real happy with both tones.

Treble 0
Mids 10
Bass 10
Presence 4
Resonance 3
Red Gain 2.5

Clean Gain and Volume about Equal on 7 
Guitar Volume on 8 to take off the edge.


----------



## Micky

MarshallDog - Just to be clear - Which resistor are you referring to as the NFB resistor?


----------



## USAPatriot

J.LaGrassa said:


> I feel you need a bit more treble when using more distortion other wise it would be to muddy and wont cut that well in a band mix.



Regardless of where I set my amp's EQ, the difference between mud and nails-on-the-chalkboard shrill is about one number setting on my Gibson's tone knob, at least on lead. On rhythm the freqs get more spread out so it's more forgiving. The MXR-108 has been a godsend for dialing out the shrill spikes, the mud and the mid-range honk, beyond what I can do with the amp's EQ or guitar alone. Tweaking it can make things ugly really fast lol -Rod-


----------



## MarshallDog

Micky said:


> MarshallDog - Just to be clear - Which resistor are you referring to as the NFB resistor?



R71...(6) pages back in this thread is where the -fb conversation started and a few MF members confirmed it was this resistor.


----------



## AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing

So cal, what do you consider shouting levels volume-wise?


----------



## Swede

MarshallDog said:


> R71...(6) pages back in this thread is where the -fb conversation started and a few MF members confirmed it was this resistor.



would you mind give us a few sentences how its affects the tone on both channels? I know you said it means it up.

Care to elaborate....I might be interested in this one.

also, did you remove it completely or change it to a different value?


----------



## mickeydg5

Yes it is R71, 100k.
Do not remove the feedback resistor. That is way in the wrong direction. It would be more like going to a 1T resistor but really would be infinite resistance causing open loop/no feedback.

By lowering the feedback dropping resistor it will allow more feedback through. This will provide more damping/control and clean up the power stage at the cost of losing a little power output.
It should help the bass frequencies to sound better while taming some higher frequency. When pushing the amplifier it should have lower growl to it. I think that is what Marshalldog meant by "means up better".


----------



## Micky

I have thought about piggybacking another 100K on top of R71, but with the other mods I have on this amp I don't think I need it.

I don't play this amp at wicked low volumes, 3-5 on the dial is my sweet spot. I generally set the gain first, then adjust the volume to suit. The Man-O-War has plenty of tight bass, and it is not overly 'bright' and doesn't allow things to get fizzy. I guess it is all in what you perceive...


----------



## MarshallDog

mickeydg5 said:


> Yes it is R71, 100k.
> Do not remove the feedback resistor. That is way in the wrong direction. It would be more like going to a 1T resistor but really would be infinite resistance causing open loop/no feedback.
> 
> By lowering the feedback dropping resistor it will allow more feedback through. This will provide more damping/control and clean up the power stage at the cost of losing a little power output.
> It should help the bass frequencies to sound better while taming some higher frequency. When pushing the amplifier it should have lower growl to it. I think that is what Marshalldog meant by "means up better".



Exactly and I think it really sounds wonderful now... I tried piggy backing another 100K on it and loved it so much that I just replaced the original 100K with a 47K which was stock in some older Marshalls (as I understand it).


----------



## Swede

Is it worth it MarshallDog? worth it like the C19 mod is?


----------



## USAPatriot

MarshallDog said:


> Exactly and I think it really sounds wonderful now... I tried piggy backing another 100K on it and loved it so much that I just replaced the original 100K with a 47K which was stock in some older Marshalls (as I understand it).



I liked your idea so much when you originally posted it that I went out and bought a set of the mini clips while I was off nursing my hand so I could test it out with the resistor piggybacked. It's at the top of my list of things to do the next time I pull the chassis. -Rod-


----------



## MarshallDog

USAPatriot said:


> I liked your idea so much when you originally posted it that I went out and bought a set of the mini clips while I was off nursing my hand so I could test it out with the resistor piggybacked. It's at the top of my list of things to do the next time I pull the chassis. -Rod-



Let me know what you think...if your a metal player you won't like it but I think you will if you play anything but.


----------



## MarshallDog

Swede said:


> Is it worth it MarshallDog? worth it like the C19 mod is?



IMO yes, the tone is just so much better, and the amp has so much gain so that's not an issue either. The Ultra channel is really useable now, to me it is a richer, fuller tone and not so obnoxious for lack of another way to describe it.


----------



## dave999z

MarshallDog said:


> IMO yes, the tone is just so much better, and the amp has so much gain so that's not an issue either. The Ultra channel is really useable now, to me it is a richer, fuller tone and not so obnoxious for lack of another way to describe it.



Would love to hear a sound comparison clip.


----------



## batmanrb89

Sharing info on upgrades I've done over the past week to my DSL40C. 

- I swapped out the pre amp tubes for JJ ecc83s tubes.

- I swapped out the power tubes for JJ E34L tubes.

- I set the bias to 38Ma (before I adjusted, one was at 35ma and the other was at 15ma from the factory.... )

- The amp sounded awesome. Every channel was perfect to my ear. The piercing trebley highs were gone, the bass and mids were tight. And then it fizzled, hummed, bass rattled and sounded like a subwoofer overloaded with too much bass. 

- I took to power tubes out. Put the stock ones back in. Set the bias to 38ma and it was normal. Not as beautiful ass the JJ power tubes, but it was sounding like it wanted to explode. I'm assuming one of the JJ's were bad.

Anybody have input on this?


----------



## Micky

Sounds like you figured it out.
Put the JJ's back in to see if it is true...


----------



## J.LaGrassa

batmanrb89 said:


> Sharing info on upgrades I've done over the past week to my DSL40C.
> 
> - I swapped out the pre amp tubes for JJ ecc83s tubes.
> 
> - I swapped out the power tubes for JJ E34L tubes.
> 
> - I set the bias to 38Ma (before I adjusted, one was at 35ma and the other was at 15ma from the factory.... )
> 
> - The amp sounded awesome. Every channel was perfect to my ear. The piercing trebley highs were gone, the bass and mids were tight. And then it fizzled, hummed, bass rattled and sounded like a subwoofer overloaded with too much bass.
> 
> - I took to power tubes out. Put the stock ones back in. Set the bias to 38ma and it was normal. Not as beautiful ass the JJ power tubes, but it was sounding like it wanted to explode. I'm assuming one of the JJ's were bad.
> 
> Anybody have input on this?



Same tubes I use with excellent results, I would make sure the bias didnt change on one of the power tubes or its possible one of the E34L is bad. where did you get the power tubes? if you got them from Eurotubes they have great customer service.


----------



## batmanrb89

J.LaGrassa said:


> Same tubes I use with excellent results, I would make sure the bias didnt change on one of the power tubes or its possible one of the E34L is bad. where did you get the power tubes? if you got them from Eurotubes they have great customer service.



I got them at samash as a last minute grab. I returned them and order a matched pair from thetubestore.com. I had ordered the preamp tubes from them and was pleased with the process.


----------



## MarshallDog

batmanrb89 said:


> I got them at samash as a last minute grab. I returned them and order a matched pair from thetubestore.com. I had ordered the preamp tubes from them and was pleased with the process.



The Tube Store is the best IMO and experience


----------



## batmanrb89

J.LaGrassa said:


> Same tubes I use with excellent results, I would make sure the bias didnt change on one of the power tubes or its possible one of the E34L is bad. where did you get the power tubes? if you got them from Eurotubes they have great customer service.



Do you know why the JJ E34L has 7 pins instead of 8?


----------



## J.LaGrassa

batmanrb89 said:


> Do you know why the JJ E34L has 7 pins instead of 8?




there is no internal connection on pin 6, some tubes have a pin there and some dont so thats normal!


----------



## batmanrb89

J.LaGrassa said:


> there is no internal connection on pin 6, some tubes have a pin there and some dont so thats normal!



Haha WOW. I can figure out how to bias my amp but not know the pin count. I shall slap myself now. Thanks for the information! 

Is the C19 Mod worth it? I'm not looking to change the speaker right now. Just looking to see how I can max this thing out without blowing it up.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

batmanrb89 said:


> Haha WOW. I can figure out how to bias my amp but not know the pin count. I shall slap myself now. Thanks for the information!
> 
> Is the C19 Mod worth it? I'm not looking to change the speaker right now. Just looking to see how I can max this thing out without blowing it up.



C19 is a personal preference thing some people like it clipped some like a smaller value and some don't like it at all... I fall into the don't like it category but if I were to do the C19 mod again it would be with a smaller value cap you will just have to try it for your self.


----------



## Micky

batmanrb89 said:


> Haha WOW. I can figure out how to bias my amp but not know the pin count. I shall slap myself now. Thanks for the information!
> 
> Is the C19 Mod worth it? I'm not looking to change the speaker right now. Just looking to see how I can max this thing out without blowing it up.



C19, or the 'DSL bright cap' is there to prevent things from sounding muddy at low volumes. As soon as you get a bit of volume going, its affect on the circuit becomes less. The more you turn it up, the less influence the cap has.

If you could run at 10 on the volume and gain you would not notice the cap at all. For most people this is out of the question, but for some, leaving the cap alone is fine.

It is very dependent on several other factors, such as speaker choice, guitar and pickup choice and the style of music you play. I feel if you have to ask that question (should I clip C19?) then you don't need to do it.

Take some time to break things in and after a while you may decide to do it, but it certainly is not necessary to do it right away 'because you think you need to' or 'jeez, ma, every one else is doing it...'. Make your decision based on 'need', rather than 'want'.


----------



## batmanrb89

I've had the amp for 10 months now. I really just wanted to tame the harshness with the highs. This is the second one I've had. The first one I took back after two weeks. Had horrible rattling. BUT, it was less bright than this one. I have noticed that as you cranked the volume/gain, it does tend to even out. I'll likely leave the C19 in place. But eventually swap the speaker.


----------



## mickeydg5

batmanrb89 said:


> I've had the amp for 10 months now. I really just wanted to tame the harshness with the highs. This is the second one I've had. The first one I took back after two weeks. Had horrible rattling. BUT, it was less bright than this one. I have noticed that as you cranked the volume/gain, it does tend to even out. I'll likely leave the C19 in place. But eventually swap the speaker.


 There is always the option of lowering the value of C19. That is not as drastic as clipping it out of the circuit but will still provide some high end at lower volumes while cutting some harshness.


----------



## CPT America

New Marshall amp owner with some very rookie questions for the community. 

Just bought a new DSL 40c seeking the tube amp tone my previous amps (Line 6 Spider 2, 3) tried to emulate, specifically the 80's GnR sounds Slash made with his plexi Marshall and knock off Les Paul I've been playing for long enough where I want to get that next amp I'll stick with for years and leave the 50w Line 6 amps behind. 

Read nothing but great reviews on these amps (DSL40c), and am wondering if I may have purchased one with a defect or damaged speaker, because I'm dissapointed in how dissapointed I am with the sound. 

Clean channel, both clean and crunch, are amazing. Lead channels I'm having issues with. I know the Marshall sound is "crunchy" but this thing just sounds fuzzy, anything but warm. It lacks all "punch" or "balls" that the solid state emulators I've owned had, and more gain jut equals more fuzz. spent hours on the EQ trying to make this work, maybe I just shouldn't own a Marshall?

Something I'm missing here, possibility of a speaker defect? Anything helps as this is my first run with a Marshall amp, thanks for the time.


----------



## Swede

CPT America said:


> New Marshall amp owner with some very rookie questions for the community.
> 
> Just bought a new DSL 40c seeking the tube amp tone my previous amps (Line 6 Spider 2, 3) tried to emulate, specifically the 80's GnR sounds Slash made with his plexi Marshall and knock off Les Paul I've been playing for long enough where I want to get that next amp I'll stick with for years and leave the 50w Line 6 amps behind.
> 
> Read nothing but great reviews on these amps (DSL40c), and am wondering if I may have purchased one with a defect or damaged speaker, because I'm dissapointed in how dissapointed I am with the sound.
> 
> Clean channel, both clean and crunch, are amazing. Lead channels I'm having issues with. I know the Marshall sound is "crunchy" but this thing just sounds fuzzy, anything but warm. It lacks all "punch" or "balls" that the solid state emulators I've owned had, and more gain jut equals more fuzz. spent hours on the EQ trying to make this work, maybe I just shouldn't own a Marshall?
> 
> Something I'm missing here, possibility of a speaker defect? Anything helps as this is my first run with a Marshall amp, thanks for the time.



Welcome to what a lot of us has experienced upon buying that amp...the solution for me was new speaker and c19 mod.......And less gain, more volume...learning how to set the EQ properly.


----------



## USAPatriot

J.LaGrassa said:


> C19 is a personal preference thing some people like it clipped some like a smaller value and some don't like it at all... I fall into the don't like it category but if I were to do the C19 mod again it would be with a smaller value cap you will just have to try it for your self.



Is piggybacking a cap, as with resistors, possible or no? Ohm's Law doesn't apply to capacitance so far as I know lol. -Rod-


----------



## USAPatriot

CPT America said:


> New Marshall amp owner with some very rookie questions for the community.
> 
> Just bought a new DSL 40c seeking the tube amp tone my previous amps (Line 6 Spider 2, 3) tried to emulate, specifically the 80's GnR sounds Slash made with his plexi Marshall and knock off Les Paul I've been playing for long enough where I want to get that next amp I'll stick with for years and leave the 50w Line 6 amps behind.
> 
> Read nothing but great reviews on these amps (DSL40c), and am wondering if I may have purchased one with a defect or damaged speaker, because I'm dissapointed in how dissapointed I am with the sound.
> 
> Clean channel, both clean and crunch, are amazing. Lead channels I'm having issues with. I know the Marshall sound is "crunchy" but this thing just sounds fuzzy, anything but warm. It lacks all "punch" or "balls" that the solid state emulators I've owned had, and more gain jut equals more fuzz. spent hours on the EQ trying to make this work, maybe I just shouldn't own a Marshall?
> 
> Something I'm missing here, possibility of a speaker defect? Anything helps as this is my first run with a Marshall amp, thanks for the time.



It sounds like you're playing in the Red2 channel? Ie, "Ultra" with the button pushed in. Yeah, it'll do that and it's harsh to say the least. Keep the gain below 2 or dial back your guitar volume and it'll mellow substantially. Frankly, there's very few people that need to push this amp that far. Really. Try the crunch channel, button in, gain up to where you think you like it, then crank the volume. Back off the gain until you find a tone that suits you. Volume is everything as it's where the amp comes alive. That being said, this is THE best amp I've had for bedroom level playing. You just need to make some adjustments to account for the lack of accoustic gains that one naturally gets from a cranked amp. Consider an attenuator too. I use Carl's Power Soak, crank everything and set the power soak at about 98% which lowers the output volume to the point that I can get cranked tones and still have a cat sleeping on the bed. Wunderbar! Don't be too disappointed so soon. The DSL40C is a rough diamond...but it's still a diamond. Read up on and consider the C-19 clip as well, but don't be a hurry to mod your amp. I waited probably 4 months before I even bothered to change tubes. Get to know the amp before you decide it's good bad or can be improved upon  
-Rod-


----------



## J.LaGrassa

USAPatriot said:


> Is piggybacking a cap, as with resistors, possible or no? Ohm's Law doesn't apply to capacitance so far as I know lol. -Rod-



Caps in parallel will add in capacitance and divide in series, its the opposite of resistors.


----------



## AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing

Me. I use red2 for some stuff. Have kept gain at 3 on that channel. To me red2 is in some ways more pleasant than 1; its thicker sounding and not as crazy bright.


----------



## House

Hello out there fellow DSL fans. I have a problem with my DSL 40. It's not even a year yet, but lately when I turn it on, after warm up, it has sounds as if it's getting voltage surges, and popping static. If I tap on it, it makes noise. Would like to know if any one has experienced this problem? I'm eventually going to break down and take it in to the shop, but just wanting some feedback first. Thanks...


----------



## Micky

House said:


> Hello out there fellow DSL fans. I have a problem with my DSL 40. It's not even a year yet, but lately when I turn it on, after warm up, it has sounds as if it's getting voltage surges, and popping static. If I tap on it, it makes noise. Would like to know if any one has experienced this problem? I'm eventually going to break down and take it in to the shop, but just wanting some feedback first. Thanks...



Chances are it is a faulty tube.
Put in your spare set and see if the problem continues.

Oh, and Welcome!


----------



## Micky

AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing said:


> Me. I use red2 for some stuff. Have kept gain at 3 on that channel. To me red2 is in some ways more pleasant than 1; its thicker sounding and not as crazy bright.



I was playing along to some Rush one time, and I just could NOT get the Alex Liefson tone quite right. I dunno what made me do it, but I switched to the Ultra channel and put it in Ultra II (red) mode, and there it was! Gain was a bit low (less than 5?) if I remember, but I nailed it only by chance. As I hardly ever use that mode, it was surprising to say the least, and totally unexpected.

Too many amps, too many settings...


----------



## batmanrb89

Micky said:


> Chances are it is a faulty tube.
> Put in your spare set and see if the problem continues.
> 
> Oh, and Welcome!



Sounds like a faulty tube. Likely power tube. At least the description sounds similar to the issue I've had with mine when I replaced the power tubes. One of them were faulty and the noise and popping, bass rumble came.


----------



## USAPatriot

J.LaGrassa said:


> Caps in parallel will add in capacitance and divide in series, its the opposite of resistors.



Is that a one-to-one relationship? I'd assume so, but need to be clear. Two caps in parallel could be expressed as C+C whereas in series C/C, correct? This is just for the purposes of testing, should I feel the need. Thanks. -Rod-


----------



## USAPatriot

K, gang, this is WAY off tpic but just need a quick reply and then I'll happily drop it. My '96 Caravan's instrument panel only works intermittently. When it works, it's great. When it's not, it'll drain the battery overnight. Obviously there's a short somewhere. The consensus online of people with this issue is pretty much universal. Over the years the crappy solder job rear's it's ugly head, some of the blobs separate, and when pulled and resoldered, job is done. I pulled my instrument panel, found at least one faulty joint that I'll repair later, but I also found THIS! I have no idea what the resistor does, no idea what any of this circuitry does (other than run the idiot lights, odometer and speedometer, but this is such a glaring thing, I have to wonder. Is this resistor even functional in it's current state? I put my meter on it...LOVE those test clips!...and the ohmage varied from about 58 to 160 ohms with a sporadic but fairly common reading of "1", with the 1 all the way to the left, seeming to say it's shorted? Thanks for indulging me. This thread is sorta home base for me... -Rod-


----------



## Micky

In order to test the resistor properly you must remove it from the circuit by unsoldering or 'lifting' one leg. Then it should read 47 ohms. (+/- 2.5 ohms)

Probably some sort of ballast or load resistor.


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> In order to test the resistor properly you must remove it from the circuit by unsoldering or 'lifting' one leg. Then it should read 47 ohms. (+/- 2.5 ohms)
> 
> Probably some sort of ballast or load resistor.



K, thanks, Micky. End of topic. lol. -Rod-


----------



## Swede

I might try and do the NFB mod tomorrow, starting by piggy back a 100K, and if I like it, put a 0.47K.

Question....Where do you find resistors these days? Last time i went in to a radio shack all they had was damn cell phones, and a pimple faced retard barely understanding what I was saying to him?


----------



## dave999z

USAPatriot said:


> Is piggybacking a cap, as with resistors, possible or no? Ohm's Law doesn't apply to capacitance so far as I know lol. -Rod-



You know what would be cool... Putting a trim pot on C19 so you could just dial it to exactly where you want as far as red channel brightness.


----------



## Micky

It is a cap, not a pot, but I know what you mean...


----------



## mickeydg5

dave999z said:


> You know what would be cool... Putting a trim pot on C19 so you could just dial it to exactly where you want as far as red channel brightness.





Micky said:


> It is a cap, not a pot, but I know what you mean...


 A small trim potentiometer would be placed in series with C19.


----------



## USAPatriot

mickeydg5 said:


> A small trim potentiometer would be placed in series with C19.



Do you know of a part#? I seem to recall that Micky and I discussed this shortly after I joined the board but the varicap's I looked at were larger than I'd want to put in there, though very cheap dollar-wise. Thanks! -Rod-


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## mickeydg5

Any 3/8" trimmer, preferably a horizontal mount 500mW. You can go with 1M or something larger if wanted.
You guys are already clipping the 470pF. Bend it over with the free lead straight up. Then solder one side leg of the trimmer into the board's solder pad. Now tie the wiper to the other side leg and then solder that to the capacitor's free leg. Of course the trimmer adjust slot should face upward, away from the board, for easy access.

Trimmer Potentiometers Product List | Potentiometers | Newark element14 US

Trimmer Potentiometers Product List | Potentiometers | Newark element14 US

Tweak away.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Swede said:


> I might try and do the NFB mod tomorrow, starting by piggy back a 100K, and if I like it, put a 0.47K.
> 
> Question....Where do you find resistors these days? Last time i went in to a radio shack all they had was damn cell phones, and a pimple faced retard barely understanding what I was saying to him?




Mouser Electronics is a nice source for parts
Mouser Electronics - Electronic Components Distributor


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## mickeydg5

Radio Shack usually has an area on an aisle with pull out trays/bens full of small electronic components.


----------



## Swede

mickeydg5 said:


> Radio Shack usually has an area on an aisle with pull out trays/bens full of small electronic components.



The several closest radio shacks to me have cell phones only...What the hell happened to Radio Shack. They used to fill a niche in the market..DIY components for people......

CEL PHONES!...Seriosuly, who the hell needs another cellphone store. I can buy a cell phone at the gas station should I want to.

In a city as big as Lon Angeles I found one electrical components store, way up in the Valley....Its too far and it too hot to drive up there now.

Bummer.


----------



## mickeydg5

You can always rob some components from other junk stuff if handy and containing what is needed.
Hell, check out a recycle spot for some boards with decent sized components containing what may be needed. I know it is digging in the trash, ha ha, but sometimes it may be faster and cheaper.


----------



## MarshallDog

J.LaGrassa said:


> Mouser Electronics is a nice source for parts
> Mouser Electronics - Electronic Components Distributor



Another good place is DigiKey.com. I have used both places and they both have great customer service. Digi-Key is MN so its a bit closer and faster for me but if in CA Mouser is in TX so that might be better for you. Try to buy all the components you need at once as the resistors will cost pennies and the shipping will cost dollars...


----------



## armandodiaz

I just picked up my DSL40c this weekend. I am excited to own Marshall again. Last time I had a Marshall was in 1985. Just from reading about the 40C it sounds like the perfect amp. However, I am noticing a couple of things....

1. Right off the bat, I noticed the fizzy distortion. I guess I will be doing the C19 mod.

2. I'm not sure if my reverb is working. I don't notice any difference weather it's on 0 or 10. Since there is no lite I can't even tell if the footswitch for the reverb is working. A couple of lites on the footswitch, would have been nice... mod?????

3. All my music is classic rock (Led Zep, Santana, Floyd....). I would like to swap the speaker with a Greenback I have from another cab. But its 8ohms, 25W. I don't think this will work, since this is 40W.

I'm not an expert so I appreciate all the advise.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

armandodiaz said:


> I just picked up my DSL40c this weekend. I am excited to own Marshall again. Last time I had a Marshall was in 1985. Just from reading about the 40C it sounds like the perfect amp. However, I am noticing a couple of things....
> 
> 1. Right off the bat, I noticed the fizzy distortion. I guess I will be doing the C19 mod.
> 
> 2. I'm not sure if my reverb is working. I don't notice any difference weather it's on 0 or 10. Since there is no lite I can't even tell if the footswitch for the reverb is working. A couple of lites on the footswitch, would have been nice... mod?????
> 
> 3. All my music is classic rock (Led Zep, Santana, Floyd....). I would like to swap the speaker with a Greenback I have from another cab. But its 8ohms, 25W. I don't think this will work, since this is 40W.
> 
> I'm not an expert so I appreciate all the advise.



My advice is to break the amp in first and twist all the knobs, give the speaker time to break in it will mellow out a bit also the amp will sound its best at louder than bedroom volumes. After a few weeks see if you still want to make changes, if you do start off with tubes and speakers before playing with the circuit.


----------



## frankyfal

armandodiaz said:


> I just picked up my DSL40c this weekend. I am excited to own Marshall again. Last time I had a Marshall was in 1985. Just from reading about the 40C it sounds like the perfect amp. However, I am noticing a couple of things....
> 
> 1. Right off the bat, I noticed the fizzy distortion. I guess I will be doing the C19 mod.
> 
> 2. I'm not sure if my reverb is working. I don't notice any difference weather it's on 0 or 10. Since there is no lite I can't even tell if the footswitch for the reverb is working. A couple of lites on the footswitch, would have been nice... mod?????
> 
> 3. All my music is classic rock (Led Zep, Santana, Floyd....). I would like to swap the speaker with a Greenback I have from another cab. But its 8ohms, 25W. I don't think this will work, since this is 40W.
> 
> I'm not an expert so I appreciate all the advise.


If it's just the speaker you are not pleased with Sweetwater has the amp with a creamback $699 free ship no tax if you can return the one you bought.


----------



## xchemie

J.LaGrassa said:


> My advice is to break the amp in first and twist all the knobs, give the speaker time to break in it will mellow out a bit also the amp will sound its best at louder than bedroom volumes. After a few weeks see if you still want to make changes, if you do start off with tubes and speakers before playing with the circuit.



+1! I found that a broken-in Vintage 30 speaker made the Lead 1 channel enormously better. YMMV


----------



## So Cal Steve

J.LaGrassa said:


> My advice is to break the amp in first and twist all the knobs, give the speaker time to break in it will mellow out a bit also the amp will sound its best at louder than bedroom volumes. After a few weeks see if you still want to make changes, if you do start off with tubes and speakers before playing with the circuit.



I completely agree.

To my ears, the Green channel sounds great from bedroom levels to cranked, whereas the Red channel needs volume.

armandodiaz: you should be able to tell if the reverb is working. There could be a problem. I run mine at about 6 on the Classic channel and can definitely tell it's on.


----------



## Skylarkpilot

armandodiaz said:


> I just picked up my DSL40c this weekend. I am excited to own Marshall again. Last time I had a Marshall was in 1985. Just from reading about the 40C it sounds like the perfect amp. However, I am noticing a couple of things....
> 
> 1. Right off the bat, I noticed the fizzy distortion. I guess I will be doing the C19 mod.
> 
> 2. I'm not sure if my reverb is working. I don't notice any difference weather it's on 0 or 10. Since there is no lite I can't even tell if the footswitch for the reverb is working. A couple of lites on the footswitch, would have been nice... mod?????
> 
> 3. All my music is classic rock (Led Zep, Santana, Floyd....). I would like to swap the speaker with a Greenback I have from another cab. But its 8ohms, 25W. I don't think this will work, since this is 40W.
> 
> I'm not an expert so I appreciate all the advise.



Welcome to the forum. Your Greenback 25W isn't a speaker for this cab. But +1 on the comments above about getting the stock speaker properly broken in. It definitely sounds much better after a few weeks of playing. I rushed to upgrading it to the Celestion Classic lead. By the time the new speaker arrived the old one was actually sounding pretty good to me. Hasn't stopped me getting a 2x12 cab with Vintage 30's in though 
The reverb has been an issue for lots of owners. I sent mine back thinking it was faulty, turns out it's just not as pronounced as things like my old Fender Blues Junior. Volume at about three on green and palm mute the low E and you should just about make it out. That's how I found mine, maybe my ears are faulty
Anyways, there's loads of mods down the line if you want to go that route but have fun. As for gain, you're never going to be lacking.....


----------



## armandodiaz

Thanks for all the replies.
My first thought of the reverb was that it wasn't a "serious" reverb, for that get a pedal. But then I saw the youtube of Joe Bonamassa and you can definitely hear lots of reverb in his demo....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvqQXqyhcrI

Thanks,


----------



## J.LaGrassa

armandodiaz said:


> Thanks for all the replies.
> My first thought of the reverb was that it wasn't a "serious" reverb, for that get a pedal. But then I saw the youtube of Joe Bonamassa and you can definitely hear lots of reverb in his demo....
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvqQXqyhcrI
> 
> Thanks,



I like the subtleness of the reverb there is just enough there to add a little wetness to the tone but not overwhelming it.


----------



## armandodiaz

Skylarkpilot said:


> Welcome to the forum. Your Greenback 25W isn't a speaker for this cab. .....



Let me ask this...

I have a homemade cab with 2 Greenback 25W 8ohm speakers. Each are separate from each other so I can connect either 1 or both speakers. Will this work (with the wattage and ohms) if I connect each speaker to each of the 8ohm outputs?

Thanks


----------



## mickeydg5

armandodiaz said:


> Let me ask this...
> 
> I have a homemade cab with 2 Greenback 25W 8ohm speakers. Each are separate from each other so I can connect either 1 or both speakers. Will this work (with the wattage and ohms) if I connect each speaker to each of the 8ohm outputs?
> 
> Thanks


If each were 16 ohms, yes. But two 8 ohm speakers in parallel will yield a total of 4 ohms which is too low.

The two 8 ohm speakers would have to be placed in series for a total of 16 ohms in order to be used with the DSL40C.


----------



## armandodiaz

mickeydg5 said:


> If each were 16 ohms, yes. But two 8 ohm speakers in parallel will yield a total of 4 ohms which is too low.
> 
> The two 8 ohm speakers would have to be placed in series for a total of 16 ohms in order to be used with the DSL40C.



Is that a matter of rewiring? How would I do that? Does it mean to wire both to the same input jack? 

How about the wattage do they get added too = 50W

Sorry for all the questions.


----------



## mickeydg5

armandodiaz said:


> Is that a matter of rewiring? How would I do that? Does it mean to wire both to the same input jack?
> 
> How about the wattage do they get added too = 50W
> 
> Sorry for all the questions.


The two speakers would be wired in series internal to the cabinet at 16 ohms.
The power of the two are (always) added (or lowest power rating is multiplied by x2 for total power rating) for a total of 50W.

The cabinet jack + to one speaker +, then that speaker - to the next speaker +, then that speaker - to the cabinet jack -. That is series wiring.
The cabinet jack + is for the TIP and the cabinet jack - is for the SLEEVE of the plug contact connections.


----------



## armandodiaz

Never mind I found it.

I wish there was some kind of jack plate, with a switch, that would let me wire it both ways.


----------



## armandodiaz

Thanks for all the info!!!


----------



## mickeydg5

That jack plate would look and work like the typical MONO/STEREO jack plate utilizing a switch or third jack.

mono stereo jack plate - Bing Images


----------



## armandodiaz

That's perfect!!! I think I will do the Fender jackplate.

I thought I was asking for too much when I wanted both worlds.


----------



## batmanrb89

DSL40C Upgrade Status...

So I got around to finalizing the tube Upgrades and biasing. I went with All JJ ECC83'S in the preamp and JJ E34L ' s in the power tubes. No C19 mod. No speaker upgrade. Biased at 38 and kept getting familiar popping rumbling broken speaker effect. Biased to 35, same. Biased to 32 and all is well. Not quite sure. I can't remember the plate voltage but I had written it down. It was low around 450 or a little less which is odd for this amp considering what others have been posting. I will say, before I did this I put all the stock tubes back in place and biased them to 38 and the stock sound was much better than the shipping specs I played it as for 8 months. I doubt I'll do the C19 Mod because the channel differences don't bother me. I'll likely never be playing live or recording professionally as a guitarist. I'm a drummer of 26 years. Guitar is my hobby I suppose. I will likely at some point upgrade the speaker. The new tubes though have lessened the brightness of the amp . The sensitivity is improved as well. With changing the EQ's minimally I can get a range from Page to SRV to Slash for reference purposes. I play through a les paul traditional with 59 tribute pups, a les paul standard with probucker 2 amd 3 pups and a standard strat with standard pups.


----------



## armandodiaz

Finally got a chance to test out my amp again. And I was able to find some reverb. I had to by-pass my pedal board and plugin directly. I put on the clean channel (with no crunch) and with the reverb at 8 I was about to hear some echoing. As stated before, its very unpronounced. Actually, kind of useless. Once I give it a little crunch it disappears. Then once I put my pedal board back in, the buzzing from the board drowns it.
I only had the amp at 20W and the vol at 4, since I didn't want to wake up the family. I'm wondering if it's better heard, once its cranked up? Or is there something wrong. GC is an hour away and I don't want to waste my time, if there's "nothing wrong". Guess I don't have to worry about selling my reverb pedal.


----------



## Duffy49

armandodiaz said:


> Finally got a chance to test out my amp again. Guess I don't have to worry about selling my reverb pedal.



Don't sell your reverb pedal. Both my 40c and 100h have weak sounding reverbs, but they fill out the sound in a subtle way.

I have other amps like my Fender Deluxe Reverb RI and Peavey Delta Blues, that really put out some serious reverb, probably more than most anyone would actually use.


----------



## AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing

do we really like reverb execept for practice? seems like live it gets smeared/lost. plus, doesnt being in a venue kind of create REAL reverb?


----------



## J.LaGrassa

I've been leaving the Reverb on at around 12:00 for both channels thats plenty for me and blend in a little delay for added wetness!


----------



## Micky

AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing said:


> do we really like reverb execept for practice? seems like live it gets smeared/lost. plus, doesnt being in a venue kind of create REAL reverb?



All I do is practice anymore, but the cleaner I set the amp, the more reverb I like. And vice-versa...


----------



## Alton

For my purposes the reverb on the DSL 40C is just about right except for it's dynamic response (pick lightly or regularly and the reverb stays small - start digging in and/or hitting notes hard and the reverb seems to respond accordingly by getting louder than I would like it to be)

I've never used a lot of reverb on any amp I've owned/used. I've always used just a touch of reverb to simply make the sound more "broad" giving it the sense of being bigger, more spacious.

Yes, the venue provides it's own natural reverb/delay. Using reverb effects delicately can enhance this effect of the venue making it sound bigger than it actually is. 

I do not like the smearing effect of big reverb. I appreciate big reverb on surf tunes because that is part of the surf sound. Of course, there are other tunes where a bigger reverb on the guitar is appropriate but not as many as you may think.

Delay is another story. Out of all my effects choices I probably use delay and wah the most. I'm still not real happy/comfortable with chorus/phase/pitch shifting and I real don't care for ring modulation or other "toilet bowl" sounds.


----------



## dylumph

If I was to ever use reverb, it probably be like the one on this amp. I came up thinking Hiwatts, Marshalls & Vox were above reverb. My Buddy plays a twin with it on ALL the time. I call it the suck button!


----------



## AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing

so would you guys say live, you add reverb the way a lot of mixing books talk about adding it (i.e. just enough to miss it when its gone, not enough for it to be noticeable?). i like yhe idea if guitar sounding bigger, i would think too much and it would push you "backward" in the mix. 

as for chorus ive been using for a lot of the songs where thr guitar is otherwise clean...to me it pretties up a clean tone and gives it some color. i have the yellow mxr chorus pedal, have the intensity and width pretty low (10 o clock-ish on dials), just enough, like the reverb, to make it audible without being overwhelming. i have noticed on recordings with those settings that it can make the guitar sound slightly out of tune. havent figured that one out yet. maybe leas width, more intensity (wet/dry mix)?


----------



## J.LaGrassa

AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing said:


> so would you guys say live, you add reverb the way a lot of mixing books talk about adding it (i.e. just enough to miss it when its gone, not enough for it to be noticeable?). i like yhe idea if guitar sounding bigger, i would think too much and it would push you "backward" in the mix.
> 
> as for chorus ive been using for a lot of the songs where thr guitar is otherwise clean...to me it pretties up a clean tone and gives it some color. i have the yellow mxr chorus pedal, have the intensity and width pretty low (10 o clock-ish on dials), just enough, like the reverb, to make it audible without being overwhelming. i have noticed on recordings with those settings that it can make the guitar sound slightly out of tune. havent figured that one out yet. maybe leas width, more intensity (wet/dry mix)?




I like delay a lot more than Reverb but not swimming in delay either, I just think Reverb and Delay add some depth to your tone especially when playing live. Chorus can be a cool effect I use it subtle or to extreme, check out the end of my clip I added some chorus but was set up for more extreme effect it can be fun in certain songs to change it up a little.

[SC]https://soundcloud.com/j-lagrassa/dsl40c-with-jj-tubes[/SC]


----------



## recto-robbie

Hey all, I figured I would post this question here as the only reason I am part of this forum again is the DSL40c.
The question could be asked for any amp I guess.
Do you guys know if there is any difference at all when using different ohm rated speakers????
With my 40c for example, if I had two identical speakers lets say v30's, and the only difference is one is 8ohm and the other 16ohm used in the combo plugged into the correct speaker out jack,,, would there be any tonal difference at all??????? Any benifits one way or another????

Thanks all I appreciate any knowledge you can offer


----------



## mickeydg5

The difference between 8 and 16 ohm speakers of any model depends on and can be seen in its data, characteristics or specifications.
Sometimes the two are very similar but some may have differences like better bottom end resonance which may or may not suit a smaller enclosure. Most will have slightly different overall frequency response as well as sensitivity.

But key also may be fanout or number of speakers connected. There are combinations and different wiring schemes but a combo with a 16 ohm internal speaker will allow for more additional paralleled output options with extension cabinets.


----------



## AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing

been interested in delay as a way to make leads jump out of the
mix a little...short delay time, give it its own environment/atmosphere (again, another mixing technique), as opposed to the "welcome to the jungle" intro use of that effect.


----------



## Penguinchit

Question for you all: I changed my strings to the ernie ball cobalts and then got some nasty buzz out of the amp. I was using the hybrid slinky before. Would cobalt make that much of a difference or did I somehow mess up one of my cables?


----------



## mickeydg5

Penguinchit said:


> Question for you all: I changed my strings to the ernie ball cobalts and then got some nasty buzz out of the amp. I was using the hybrid slinky before. Would cobalt make that much of a difference or did I somehow mess up one of my cables?


Are you saying you went from Cobalt Hydrid to Cobalt Regular?
Regardless, changing string gauge may require setup changes including the truss rod.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Next speaker to try is the Celestion V-Type, should have it on Thursday to check out. I've been curious about this one


----------



## Micky

How is the V-Type different than the A-Type?
Are these relatively new speaker designs?


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Micky said:


> How is the V-Type different than the A-Type?
> Are these relatively new speaker designs?



I think the V TYpe came out last year and the A Type may have come out this year!

Below is the Celestion Descriptions:

V-Type
_Combining decades of experience with advanced measurement and analysis, the V-Type has been built using a carefully balanced 'recipe' of old and new design techniques. It produces a heady, exciting modern vintage sound that just makes you want to keep on playing: a speaker that delivers authentic Celestion tone whatever your style.The V-type is a sweet sounding speaker with a superbly balanced tonal signature that imparts a vintage musicality to your tone. Clean sounds are true across the lows, mids and highs, with just enough upper-mid chime and HF sparkle to add clarity and definition. Crank it up for a sizzling overdrive and raw rock tones, with plenty of mid-band warmth to give body and substance to lead note playing
_


A-Type
_Celestion guitar speakers have been an important part of British guitar tone since the birth of Rock & Roll. Traditionally, they’re known for lively and vocal midrange character with plenty of sparkle and chime, which turns into an exciting growl when overdriven, often compressing when pushed hard.

Inspired by our favourite modern American tones, the A-Type is a different kind of guitar speaker from Celestion. Of course, it still has the musical and revealing three- dimensional quality that is the heart and soul of a Celestion guitar speaker, however it features a more laid-back midrange which reveals body and complexity in the upper register, accompanied by full and rounded low frequencies.

The A-Type conveys a fluid, even performance with an increased headroom threshold that allows your amp’s tone to shine through. Clean players will love the smooth articulation; for rockers the brooding, powerful low end threatens thunder that’s only a heavy riff away!

_


----------



## Penguinchit

mickeydg5 said:


> Are you saying you went from Cobalt Hydrid to Cobalt Regular?
> Regardless, changing string gauge may require setup changes including the truss rod.



Sorry, no, I went from the nickel wound slinky (2223) to slinky cobalts (2721). 

Would the setup be something that could introduce noise? I love the sound of the cobalts but going from a 9 to a 10 is killing my ring finger!


----------



## recto-robbie

Hey guys,, I've been trying to hold adding anything to this thread until I was able to spend more time with the amp.
When I first bought the amp I found this thread and read and read up to about 35 pages into it, im sure the next 50 pages will bring a lot more info indeed.
Because I didn't finish reading every page I cant tell if thoughts about the amp have changed since the beginning.
While I admit the amp can have a bright side I was always able to tame the highs from the start simply by lowering the treble and presence, no problem. I admit I only use humbucking guitars.
The reverb while it does work just fine at all levels of volume doesn't seem to increase much at all the higher I raise the knob, it stays pretty subtle throughout its whole range, to me its useless, but luckily for me I use a reverb pedal and delay, problem solved, they sound great through the loop. If you like reverb but refuse to use pedals you most likely wont like the reverb on this amp.

The reason im writing this is for anyone who is considering this amp, after I bought the amp I found this thread and began reading and quite honestly I worried about all the mods I would have to do just to make it useful, I found that completely untrue once I spent a little time with it.

Well I've always been a tweeker at heart, loads of tubes and a bunch of speakers so I know the time will come when I decide to try something different with the amp, that day always comes regardless of amp whether a change is needed or not.
So a couple days ago I finally got around to swapping out the speaker, the first and only change I have done to the amp has been this first speaker swap, no tube changes yet.
I put in an old well worn 80's G12t75, this speaker swap alone completely took care of any brightness issues, instead of treble and presence set at 2-3 now I have them up to around 6-7 and could easily go higher without becoming too high. I cant say its a perfect match but it surely tamed any brightness I could imagine someone complaining about. Im going to try a v30 I have shortly and have high hopes for it.

So if you are considering this amp and have read this thread don't think its a must that you will have to immediately start clipping anything on the board to make it useful, for me its something i'm definitely glad I wont need to do. 
Now if your a natural tweeker I can totally understand that too! 
And I have a feeling that deal sweetwater has offering this amp with the creamback65 is for a good reason. Many complaints will be solved just by using a different speaker.


----------



## recto-robbie

I forgot to mention about using that G12t75, other than taming any brightness I found this particular speaker cuts through the mix much better than the seventy 80, that was something I didn't expect.


----------



## mickeydg5

Penguinchit said:


> Sorry, no, I went from the nickel wound slinky (2223) to slinky cobalts (2721).
> 
> Would the setup be something that could introduce noise? I love the sound of the cobalts but going from a 9 to a 10 is killing my ring finger!


Usually if going up in string size there may be an increase in gap/relief at the neck and pickups. But if the neck did not react much the larger strings will be closer to the frets and pickup poles as well as have an increased vibration pattern.
Check the setup. Make sure all strings are seated correctly at the nut and bridge. Increase the action a bit to see if the buzz goes away. If so then recheck and reset entire setup.
I would think it to be the guitar since that is what has been changed. Try another guitar if possible too to determine what is causing the buzz.


----------



## Penguinchit

Thanks Mickey, I'll check it out and report back.


----------



## CarlosPrex

Well
FYI today I finally installed a red LED for channel switching indication and a blue LED for Reverb activation indication to my DSL40C footswitch!!!

I want to say thanks to *tkvoice* for sharing this http://www.marshallforum.com/marshall-amps/65858-dsl40c-adding-leds-footswitch.html and to *MarkJ* for sharing a video on comment #1627 of this thread.

Though Mark´s video states 10.2 v on his amp, mine has only 4.95 just as *tkvoice* commented, so I installed the 5.6k and 330 ohm resistors....and voilá

Thanks Thanks Thanks

Carlos


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Got the Celestion V-Type speaker today, very cool speaker for the DSL40! I think when this speaker breaks its going to output some sweet tones! 

Here is a little sample fresh out out of the box using the lead1 channel!

[SC]https://soundcloud.com/j-lagrassa/dsl40c-v-type[/SC]


----------



## mickeydg5

That is a nice sounding speaker.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

mickeydg5 said:


> That is a nice sounding speaker.



its got some nice pleasing quality's to it.


----------



## Micky

Makes me yearn for an A-Type.

(I have NEVER yearned for a Celestion speaker of ANY type...)


----------



## Dizzyg12

Hey long time no post - I've been too busy with work to even play much, but the other day I experienced something a little weird. Turned the amp on as usual and let it warm up. Plugged in and started to play but no sound.....checked all the cables and such.....all good all connected. Then it started really faint, low volume. No bad sounds just not very loud. Then it got loud and would cut in and out. after toggling between pickups thinking it may be a bad pickup or a volume/tone pot, I concluded it wasnt the guitat although I didn't plug in another one to completely eliminate that possibility. Soon enough it was running full throttle and sounded normal. And I played for about 4 straight hours without a hitch. 

I'm going to try again tomorrow and hopefully she's over her cold, but whAt do ya think - power tubes going?


----------



## mickeydg5

Expect and check the simple stuff first. Try another guitar. How did you check the cables?


----------



## Dizzyg12

mickeydg5 said:


> Expect and check the simple stuff first. Try another guitar. How did you check the cables?



Process of elimination basically. Trying each one and switching with other cables.


----------



## mickeydg5

Dizzyg12 said:


> Process of elimination basically. Trying each one and switching with other cables.


 That is fine. Just make sure to swap out things with known good ones.
Sometimes I had a habit of throwing a iffy cable in the drawer. Then later I would have to swap some for one reason or another and would have to try to remember if I had fixed the last pulled cable. Now if I pull a cable it goes straight to the bench.

Clean all your jacks, plugs, tube pins and tube sockets with an electronics contact cleaner. An intermittent problem can change once heated or vibrated. Make sure there is a tight grip from the tube socket prongs on the tube pins too.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Dizzyg12 said:


> Hey long time no post - I've been too busy with work to even play much, but the other day I experienced something a little weird. Turned the amp on as usual and let it warm up. Plugged in and started to play but no sound.....checked all the cables and such.....all good all connected. Then it started really faint, low volume. No bad sounds just not very loud. Then it got loud and would cut in and out. after toggling between pickups thinking it may be a bad pickup or a volume/tone pot, I concluded it wasnt the guitat although I didn't plug in another one to completely eliminate that possibility. Soon enough it was running full throttle and sounded normal. And I played for about 4 straight hours without a hitch.
> 
> I'm going to try again tomorrow and hopefully she's over her cold, but whAt do ya think - power tubes going?



I would check the preamp tubes make sure they are seated good, do you use your fx loop could be an Issue there. Hopefully you figure it out!


----------



## Micky

J.LaGrassa said:


> I would check the preamp tubes make sure they are seated good, do you use your fx loop could be an Issue there. Hopefully you figure it out!



I'm with J here, pull the back and insure everything is seated properly.
Keep us posted with what you find.


----------



## batmanrb89

J.LaGrassa said:


> Got the Celestion V-Type speaker today, very cool speaker for the DSL40! I think when this speaker breaks its going to output some sweet tones!
> 
> Here is a little sample fresh out out of the box!
> 
> [SC]https://soundcloud.com/j-lagrassa/dsl40c-v-type[/SC]



Great sound and great playing!

Do you leave the back panel off or screw it back on?


----------



## J.LaGrassa

batmanrb89 said:


> Great sound and great playing!
> 
> Do you leave the back panel off or screw it back on?




I always put the back panel back on when testing speakers


----------



## frankyfal

J.LaGrassa said:


> Got the Celestion V-Type speaker today, very cool speaker for the DSL40! I think when this speaker breaks its going to output some sweet tones!
> 
> Here is a little sample fresh out out of the box!
> 
> [SC]https://soundcloud.com/j-lagrassa/dsl40c-v-type[/SC]


Excellent


----------



## armandodiaz

I've been reading through this post all week. I'm only up to page 28, so I'm sorry if this has already been covered.

Effect Loop: which pedals belong in the effects loop and which ones belong in the input? I kind of have a good idea but want to make sure. I have...

Wah-Wah
tuner
Compression
Muff
tube screamer
chorus/echo
phase 90
super octive
EQ
Harmonist
reverb
noise gate.

I was also thinking of buying a separate reverb and delay, to kind of leave turned on permanently (since the reverb on the amp is crap).

Thanks to all 


BTW: Great post!!!


----------



## Micky

Time-based effects such as reverb and delay, as well as EQ type of effects work well in the loop. Overdrive, distortion and wah type of pedals work best in front of the amp.

Those are general rules, but then again, rules were made to be broken...


----------



## armandodiaz

That's what I thought. However a little confused about where the compression and noise gate should go?


----------



## batmanrb89

armandodiaz said:


> I've been reading through this post all week. I'm only up to page 28, so I'm sorry if this has already been covered.
> 
> Effect Loop: which pedals belong in the effects loop and which ones belong in the input? I kind of have a good idea but want to make sure. I have...
> 
> Wah-Wah
> tuner
> Compression
> Muff
> tube screamer
> chorus/echo
> phase 90
> super octive
> EQ
> Harmonist
> reverb
> noise gate.
> 
> I was also thinking of buying a separate reverb and delay, to kind of leave turned on permanently (since the reverb on the amp is crap).
> 
> Thanks to all
> 
> 
> BTW: Great post!!!



Hope this helps. I can describe to you both of my pedal setup to the amp if I don't plug straight in.(guutar/amp/no pedals)

All pedals in front of amp go in the following order. 
Guitar, tuner, wah, tube screamer, blues driver, metal zone, big muff, chorus, flanger, delay, noise suppressor, amp. 

If using the effects loop I have two options. 
1. Chorus, flanger, delay (noise suppressor at end of front pedal inputs)

2. The "X" connection with a noise suppressor. You run your guitar and front end pedals (wah, drive, etc.) Into the pedal input, out to the amp input. You run the pedal output to the FI Loop Return input. You run the FI loop send to the pedals return input. This setup will eliminate all hiss but you risk tone drain. 

If you have noisy pickups, a noise suppressor is best at the end of your pedal chain. If your amp has a loud hiss, then the "x" connection is best. 

I hope this helps. It's not a direct answer to your question, but I figured by seeing what someone else does with the same amp, it should give you options.


----------



## mickeydg5

Compressor/compression before distortion/overdrive.


----------



## Swede

yeah compression first, or after tuner if anything i think


----------



## J.LaGrassa

armandodiaz said:


> I've been reading through this post all week. I'm only up to page 28, so I'm sorry if this has already been covered.
> 
> Effect Loop: which pedals belong in the effects loop and which ones belong in the input? I kind of have a good idea but want to make sure. I have...
> 
> Wah-Wah
> tuner
> Compression
> Muff
> tube screamer
> chorus/echo
> phase 90
> super octive
> EQ
> Harmonist
> reverb
> noise gate.
> 
> I was also thinking of buying a separate reverb and delay, to kind of leave turned on permanently (since the reverb on the amp is crap).
> 
> Thanks to all
> 
> 
> BTW: Great post!!!



This is how I would most likely arrange these fx

*Amp Input*
tuner
Compression
Wah-Wah
phase 90
tube screamer
Muff

*FX loop*
super octive
Harmonist
chorus/echo
reverb
EQ
noise gate.


----------



## armandodiaz

Thanks to all. That's the info I was looking for.


----------



## armandodiaz

I was also thinking of somehow removing the reverb board. Then taking a reverb/delay pedal, taking it apart and somehow mounting it inside the cab and rewire the 2 front reverb pots to the pedal.

However, I haven't even taken the amp apart so I'm not sure what to expect. I'm waiting for my choke and tubes to come in, so I only take it apart minimal times. We'll see.


----------



## Len

armandodiaz said:


> I was also thinking of somehow removing the reverb board. Then taking a reverb/delay pedal, taking it apart and somehow mounting it inside the cab and rewire the 2 front reverb pots to the pedal.
> 
> However, I haven't even taken the amp apart so I'm not sure what to expect. I'm waiting for my choke and tubes to come in, so I only take it apart minimal times. We'll see.



Why not just use the effect loop?


----------



## Len

Quick Question about C19 mods. I read that C19 is a 100V cap. If I want to switch it in and out via a toggle switch, there aren't many switches with a 100V DC rating. Does that sound correct?


----------



## mickeydg5

C19 will never see 100V under normal conditions. A mini toggle would be fine.


----------



## armandodiaz

Len said:


> Why not just use the effect loop?



Just looking for a way to use the 2 (useless) reverb pots.


----------



## Len

armandodiaz said:


> Just looking for a way to use the 2 (useless) reverb pots.



Install a C19 bypass switch and maybe a C20 select switch in their place?


----------



## armandodiaz

Micky said:


> Yeah, I will post the review here once I get the speaker. Still on backorder at MF, I cannot believe the price I paid! I guess being made in America does have a few advantages for Americans.
> 
> And I can think of a LOT of disadvantages of living in Canada, here in VT we are real close to all the hosers in Montreal, and every summer they tend to invade the Green Mountains. They insist on speaking French, and most want mayo or gravy on their fries...
> 
> But on the other side of the country, things are vastly different! And now that the loonie is worth more, things are looking up! I'd live there if it wasn't so damned cold...



Here in Miami, we get all the over-weight Canadian "snow birds" that insists on walking around in their speedos.


----------



## armandodiaz

Well, there's no turning back now, I'm all in.....

Just sold my Egnator. So I'm down to my Fender Champ XD2 and my stock DSL40C.

I ordered a pair of TAD EL34, and the choke. I already have a box full of 12AX7 Mullards and JJs. So I'll be putting the Mullards' in V1 and V2 and the JJs on V3 and V4. When everything comes in I will preform the C19 mod and bias the tubes all at once. Really what to minimize the amount of times the chassis comes apart.

I also ordered the G12M Creamback 16ohm to replace the internal speaker. Plus I have a 2X12/16ohm cab with Greenbacks. The 70/80 I will use with my Fender. 
I plan to use my Marshall combo at home/recording/rehearsal, use the 2x12 on gigs, and the Fender when I'm feeling "bluesy".

Wish me luck, I'll report back.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

armandodiaz said:


> Well, there's no turning back now, I'm all in.....
> 
> Just sold my Egnator. So I'm down to my Fender Champ XD2 and my stock DSL40C.
> 
> I ordered a pair of TAD EL34, and the choke. I already have a box full of 12AX7 Mullards and JJs. So I'll be putting the Mullards' in V1 and V2 and the JJs on V3 and V4. When everything comes in I will preform the C19 mod and bias the tubes all at once. Really what to minimize the amount of times the chassis comes apart.
> 
> I also ordered the G12M Creamback 16ohm to replace the internal speaker. Plus I have a 2X12/16ohm cab with Greenbacks. The 70/80 I will use with my Fender.
> I plan to use my Marshall combo at home/recording/rehearsal, use the 2x12 on gigs, and the Fender when I'm feeling "bluesy".
> 
> Wish me luck, I'll report back.




Good Luck!


----------



## armandodiaz

one question....

my 2x12 is 16ohms. If I put an 8ohm can I have both the onboard (plugged into the 8ohm) and the cab (plugged into the 16ohm) plugged in at the same time?


----------



## guitarman3001

armandodiaz said:


> one question....
> 
> my 2x12 is 16ohms. If I put an 8ohm can I have both the onboard (plugged into the 8ohm) and the cab (plugged into the 16ohm) plugged in at the same time?



the amp is only rated down to 8 ohms. If you run a 16 ohm and 8 ohm load together in parallel you will end up with less than 8 ohms.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

armandodiaz said:


> one question....
> 
> my 2x12 is 16ohms. If I put an 8ohm can I have both the onboard (plugged into the 8ohm) and the cab (plugged into the 16ohm) plugged in at the same time?



it doesn't work that way, when using the stock 16 ohm speaker alone it stays plugged into the 16 ohm speaker jack. When using the stock 16 ohm speaker with a 16 ohm extension cab you have to plug both speakers into the two 8 ohm jacks for the proper Impedance... do not mix speaker Impedances!


----------



## armandodiaz

So your saying the 16ohm 2x12 cab can be ran with a 16ohm local speaker?

I'm just trying to decided weather to keep the replacement 16ohm speaker or exchange it for an 8ohm. It would be nice to run all 3 speaker together.


----------



## Micky

Yes, 2 16 ohm speaker (cabs) can be run together.
Example - A 2X12 16-ohm cab PLUS the 16-ohm internal speaker.
Both plugged into the 8-ohm outputs.


----------



## armandodiaz

Got it....

When running only the internal 16ohm speaker... plug into the 16ohm plug.
When running only the ext 16ohm cab.... plug into the 16ohm plug
When running both the internal and ext cab..... plug each into each 8ohm plug.

How does that sound?


----------



## Swede

armandodiaz said:


> Got it....
> 
> When running only the internal 16ohm speaker... plug into the 16ohm plug.
> When running only the ext 16ohm cab.... plug into the 16ohm plug
> When running both the internal and ext cab..... plug each into each 8ohm plug.
> 
> How does that sound?



Thats correct...I just went through this exact thing a few weeks back. You are coorect sir.


----------



## armandodiaz

Excellent!!!

Now I got to wait for my Creamback to get off of backorder, from GC.


----------



## recto-robbie

hey armandodiaz,,, I don't know if there is a reason you are waiting for a back order from GC for that creamback but sweetwater has them in stock,,, mine is to be delivered tomorrow, I cant wait.

After reading your thoughts my simple suggestion is to first try that speaker swap before changing anything else. That is the only thing I needed to change here, every speaker I tried was better than the 70/80 unless you like ice picks in your ears.

I have a ton of tubes just sitting here and being a tweaker myself I am shocked that I haven't started swapping tubes in and out,, I just haven't found the need yet, I think it sounds great from the factory, I'm sure though that every amp is biased just a little different from the factory, I haven't checked mine yet, maybe its hot, sure sounds nice though.

And clipping that c19 sure wasn't needed, after swapping speakers, if your just looking to cut the highs. And if your considering the c19 mod to make the channels more even I swear above someone said the channels even out much better once the amp is turned up.
Anyway good luck, I just thought if your trying to limit the amount of times you open the chassis, this may just prevent it until you need to replace tubes.


----------



## Stormhenge

armandodiaz said:


> Got it....
> 
> When running only the internal 16ohm speaker... plug into the 16ohm plug.
> When running only the ext 16ohm cab.... plug into the 16ohm plug
> When running both the internal and ext cab..... plug each into each 8ohm plug.
> 
> How does that sound?


]]

The problem you'll find is that the internal speaker will overpower the external cab. You will not get an even mix as the single speaker will break up sooner as it receives half the load, and the other 2 are splitting the other half between them. The tonal result is less than spectacular. Especially if you're using the stock speaker, (which you'll understand the moment you remove it to install something of quality. I'll leave that little surprise to those who've yet to experience it.)

But even with quality speakers the load never splits across the 3 evenly, it is not a very pleasant tone.

However when pushing a single 2x12 or two 2x12's it's pretty awesome.


----------



## Duffy49

I don't know if I should pose this problem here or not; but it seems like the right place.

In regard to the following problem has anyone had this happen before? Also, if you have, do you have any idea of what the cause is and what can be done to minimize the problem or eliminate it?

Here is the problem. When playing my DSL40C at home, at moderately low volumes, I will sometimes hear a slight distortion coming into the output of the speaker that quickly turns into a distinct radio station, then within 4 - 5 seconds, max., the amp will produce a loud unpleasant distortion with no radio sound. 

When I quickly grab the input jack at the amp and unplug it the loud distortion goes away immediately, and when I plug the guitar cable back into the amp it is back to normal playing condition until the next time it does this. Switching to "Standby" also cuts the unpleasant distortion and returns the sound to normal when I switch it off of standby. It will do it once every 1 - 4 hours.

My DSL40c is completely stock and the back has never been removed. I've had it for approx. one year, and it was a brand new amp - I'm the first owner.

Not being an amp tech by any means, I have no knowledge of the situation that is going on.

Doing some research I have learned that many amps will pick up radio stations; but I don't know if they rapidly progress into loud unpleasing distortion though. It seems that the radio station reception can be a difficult problem to overcome; and it seems to be able to be attributed to one of a few different causes.

Looking over my personal situation, the house wiring is new and professionally done. None of my other several amps produce radio signals. I have tried various guitar cables and several different guitars and the amp continues to behave in the same way.

I have moved the amp to where I have easy access to the back panel and I'm going to remove it and tap the tubes gently with a pencil to see if one is microphonic. I'm also thinking of getting a high gain V1 preamp tube. I will share the results of the tube tapping test once it has been done.

I have been playing my Peavey Delta Blues fifteen inch speaker amp for the last couple weeks and it has not once produced a radio signal or slipped into uncontrollable distortion. The Delta Blues is in the exact location and orientation as the DSL40c was in and is plugged into the same wall outlet. Even with very high gain thru a "Bad Monkey" overdrive pedal, at loud volume, the Delta Blues does not go into uncontrollable distortion.

None of my other amps have ever gone into unpleasing uncontrollable distortion like this before, nor have they picked up radio stations.

So, I'm confused as to what might be going on and sure could benefit from any feedback from anyone that has experienced this problem.

I could understand the radio station reception, once in a while; but this radio reception quickly escalates into a very loud distortion and I have to reach over quickly and pull the guitar cable or throw the standby switch.

Thanks in advance to anyone that might have experienced this problem, with any amp, and sharing what you learned with me.


----------



## recto-robbie

Hey Duffy, how long has this been going on? Since you bought it or just recently?
Good luck I hope you figure it out, I haven't ever had this issue and my uneducated guess if its only been going on recently is try changing tubes like you said. I have a hard time believing something suddenly is wrong inside your amp if it just started.
Keep us updated, good luck


----------



## Micky

Amp is probably fine.

Radio interference (RFI) is a common problem with many devices. The problem you may be experiencing is probably 'mixing', that is, two separate radio signals mixing together to form one harmonic that is being picked up by your amp/guitar/cable.

Because radio signals strength fade and grow, the interference comes and goes. As it fades out, it possibly distorts as frequencies mix and fade to various degrees.

There are a couple ways to fight the problem, depending on where the RFI is getting into your setup. First try different guitar cable lengths to see if the cable is acting as the antenna. You can also put a clamp on choke on the cable to see if that stops the problem. More likely the amp itself is picking up the RFI, and here you may need to modify the amp slightly in order to stop it. A small capacitor from the input jack hot signal to ground will generally prevent RFI entering from that point, and depending on how strong the signal is, you may need to have further work done if the RFI continues.

You can test this by taking the amp to a different spot, such as a friends house or other place different from your home. Chances are your home wiring is fine, and there are certainly many other methods of fighting RFI, including contacting the offending source.

Hope this helps...


----------



## Stormhenge

I had my DSL do this at rehearsal on a regular basis (we practice near an airport)... it was picking up Airport talk - turns out it was the cable going into the amp. And leaving the cable slack coiled neatly on the floor beneath the amp made it 10 times worse. So I've begun a practice of making sure that the cable is either extended, or at least spread out so as not to form a neat coil at any point.

It still could be a problem somewhere else, but if that fixes the issue, its cheaper than putting it on the bench.


----------



## Duffy49

recto-robbie said:


> Hey Duffy, how long has this been going on? Since you bought it or just recently?
> Good luck I hope you figure it out, I haven't ever had this issue and my uneducated guess if its only been going on recently is try changing tubes like you said. I have a hard time believing something suddenly is wrong inside your amp if it just started.
> Keep us updated, good luck



It just started happening maybe two months ago. I would like to address the problem.

I have read that putting a ground from the input jack to ground has helped with this problem.

I have tried different length guitar cables and have noticed zero difference.

The interference subtly slips into the signal and then rapidly increases from a radio signal to a loud continuous roar. It is like the radio interference feeds back in a loop and rapidly intensifies into a roar. It's like a sympathetic resonance that reinforces and builds very quickly, like waves piling up on top of one another into one super wave.

Evidently this doesn't sound like a microphonic tube. I thought it might be a bad tube going out of control.


----------



## Stormhenge

Duffy49 said:


> It just started happening maybe two months ago. I would like to address the problem.
> 
> I have read that putting a ground from the input jack to ground has helped with this problem.
> 
> I have tried different length guitar cables and have noticed zero difference.
> 
> The interference subtly slips into the signal and then rapidly increases from a radio signal to a loud continuous roar. It is like the radio interference feeds back in a loop and rapidly intensifies into a roar. It's like a sympathetic resonance that reinforces and builds very quickly, like waves piling up on top of one another into one super wave.
> 
> Evidently this doesn't sound like a microphonic tube. I thought it might be a bad tube going out of control.



That's nuts. It definitely sounds like a feedback loop. I've seen digital reverbs do this in pro tools occasionally. Have you tried turning the reverbs off when this happens?


----------



## mickeydg5

Does this cursed radio station distortion actually have voice and program material?

What exactly does it sound like?

I for one would like to hear a sound sample if possible.


----------



## Micky

Since you can identify a radio station, it is definitely RFI. What it does when it enters the system is another story. Could very well be some sort of oscillating loop caused by any number of components, from microphonic tubes to reverb circuit to possibly even the negative feedback circuit.

The input jack is grounded already, you can research it and find that you may need to place a very small capacitor on the + input to ground to eliminate the RFI in the front end of the amp.

If it is getting in from the power end it is easy to place a clamp-on choke or two on the power cable to see if that eliminates or lessens the problem.

If the RFI is getting in thru the tubes or some other point inside the amp, it may be more difficult to fix. Do you live near a radio station transmitter?

Again, to truly narrow down the problem, try a different location such as at your workplace or a friends house.

You can always swap in your spare set of tubes to see if that helps as well...


----------



## Duffy49

mickeydg5 said:


> Does this cursed radio station distortion actually have voice and program material?
> 
> What exactly does it sound like?
> 
> I for one would like to hear a sound sample if possible.




Yes. It actually has voices and program material.

It is highly intermittent and of short duration before the radio signal slips into a very loud white noise type roar - at which point I stop it by hitting the standby switch or unplugging the guitar cord input plug from the amp.

The radio signal part of the noise starts about 2 seconds into the interference entering the audible speaker signal, and lasts for about 2 more seconds before the feedback escalates into a loud roar. It is unpredictable, but I can hear it coming on because it starts with a faint distorted sound injected into whatever I'm playing; this faint distortion rapidly turns into the radio signal as it escalates - maybe 1 1/2 seconds of very faint distortion bleeding in and escalating to the radio signal. The whole thing lasts maybe 4 - 5 seconds before I pull the guitar cable or hit the standby switch.

I can immediately switch the amp out of standby or re-plug in the guitar cable and the interference is gone completely, and I can start playing again until the next occurrence. The next occurrence will be anywhere from a half hour to four hours or more.

I do not live near any radio station antennas, factories, or big electrical transmission lines. None of my other amps do this. I have several nice tube amps and a couple ss amps.


----------



## Duffy49

Micky said:


> Since you can identify a radio station, it is definitely RFI. What it does when it enters the system is another story. Could very well be some sort of oscillating loop caused by any number of components, from microphonic tubes to reverb circuit to possibly even the negative feedback circuit.
> 
> The input jack is grounded already, you can research it and find that you may need to place a very small capacitor on the + input to ground to eliminate the RFI in the front end of the amp.
> 
> If it is getting in from the power end it is easy to place a clamp-on choke or two on the power cable to see if that eliminates or lessens the problem.
> 
> If the RFI is getting in thru the tubes or some other point inside the amp, it may be more difficult to fix. Do you live near a radio station transmitter?s
> 
> Again, to truly narrow down the problem, try a different location such as at your workplace or a friends house.
> 
> You can always swap in your spare set of tubes to see if that helps as well...




I have not opened up the back of the amp yet, so I have not tapped on the tubes yet.

I read about adding a second ground at the input jack, but I will let my amp tech know that you said a very small capacitor may need to be run from the + input to ground. He makes and sells a variety of amps and may know something about this problem.

I am not going to call him until I tap on the tubes first and clean all the jacks with electrical contact cleaner (Doxit).

Turning down the reverb knobs does not affect the feedback when the radio signal/roar is present. I will try turning down the reverb knobs when I first switch on the amp and see if the incidence of the problem is eliminated or reduced.

Also, it happens on both channels, all voices, all gain levels.

It is an annoyance and could damage the amp or speaker I suppose. I want to get the problem resolved, even if I have to take it to the amp tech.


----------



## mickeydg5

Duffy
The INPUT in the DSL40C is not hard connected. There is a two wire connection, CON1A/CON1B, between the input jack and V1A tube input.
Maker sure there is good continuity/connection from the guitar through the instrument cable to the input jack and then through CON1 and CON1B going to the tube. Particularly check the ground rail.

It seems the guitar and instrument cable are ok but it does not hurt to check.

Unplugging the instrument cable at the INPUT stops the problem. That points to the input generating the problem while the instrument cable acts as an antenna.
If you can get this to happen again just try turning the GAIN controls to zero. Does the problem go away?


----------



## Duffy49

mickeydg5 said:


> Duffy
> The INPUT in the DSL40C is not hard connected. There is a two wire connection, CON1A/CON1B, between the input jack and V1A tube input.
> Maker sure there is good continuity/connection from the guitar through the instrument cable to the input jack and then through CON1 and CON1B going to the tube. Particularly check the ground rail.
> 
> It seems the guitar and instrument cable are ok but it does not hurt to check.
> 
> Unplugging the instrument cable at the INPUT stops the problem. That points to the input generating the problem while the instrument cable acts as an antenna.
> If you can get this to happen again just try turning the GAIN controls to zero. Does the problem go away?



Great info. Thanks. I have tried several cables and many guitars, with the same results.

Hitting the standby switch also immediately stops the problem and switching it immediately back off of standby the amp works flawlessly until the next incidence.

I am sure I have turned the gain controls to zero already, during in incidence of this problem, but I will try again.

Possibly tomorrow I will take the back off the amp and tap on the tubes to see if one is microphonic. I'm not pulling the chassis yet, but have done so many times with several amps.

After I check for microphonic tubes I'll try to replicate the problem and turn the gain knobs down all the way.

I can pull the chassis and look things over, but I think the guitar input jack is going to be one of those composite plastic case type ones. I don't think you can see the wires in these, but I don't know much about these type jacks. I thought they mounted straight to the board. Is it possible that there could be a cracked trace on the board at the jack? Hopefully I will be able to follow the "con" wires from the jack to the tube socket. I can recognize a broken or bad solder joint. I'm going to spray Deoxit on the tube pins when I check for microphonic tubes.

I called my amp tech tonight, a short time ago, and explained the problem to him. I told him what I plan to do myself and he said that if I can't correct the problem that I can bring it to him and he will work on it. He told me it could possibly be a preamp tube and to check them as I have already planned to do. If the V1 tube is microphonic I'm going to put in a "high gain" preamp tube. I suppose this would be wise, even though a JJ 12ax7 is probably adequate. I'd like to replace any bad tubes with high quality new production ones.

I have had the amp for about a year and have not replaced the power tubes or adjusted the bias - or even checked the bias. I'm going to get some high quality matched power tubes, JJ or otherwise, and have the amp tech check and adjust the bias.

Man, I wish I knew how to bias my own amps. I would buy the equipment without delay. I already have a decent digital multimeter but would buy a better one if I started biasing my own amps, plus a bias probe or that other whatch ma call it for biasing tubes. Just being able to bias my own amps by whatever method would be a great thing to know how to do.

Anyway, the radio/roaring problem is the main thing I'm working on at this point. I've got my tools out and I'm ready to take the back off the amp possibly as early as tomorrow. I'll let you know how that goes. I have had microphonic preamp tubes on relatively new amps before. Since my DSL40c has been my "main" amp for the last year, it has had some significant use, but always stationary, since I'm mainly a "stay at home player".

The Delta Blues that I put into use is sounding great, but a lot different from the Marshall. The DSL40c has a lot more tonal options, without the use of pedals. The Delta Blues screams with my "Bad Monkey" on the clean channel, with a strat or humbucking guitar. I like the 15 inch speaker.

I'll be "on" the Marshall in the immediate future, even if it comes down to bringing it to the amp tech. I want to get it worked out.

I appreciate all the suggestions and feedback that I'm getting from you guys.


----------



## mickeydg5

First I just have to say there are high voltages inside the amplifier. If you are unfamiliar with handling this then take it to your technician.

If you feel comfortable and can fool with it take your time.
You do not have to see inside of the jack. Make sure to clean it well with an electronic contact cleaner. Do that to the tube pins and socket prongs as well while at it.
You may use your multimeter to check resistances from point to point through the instrument cable through the input jack and through the CON1A/CON1B mating. The CON1A to CON1B should be a two wire plugin onto the board. You should read very low resistances from one point to another through the contacts and connections (not through the components). You can follow the wires from the jack and the CON1's to find a spot to measure resistances through them. I hope that makes sense.

Switching the STANDBY removes power from the tubes and ceases operation therefore no more sound can be produced.

Check the preamp tubes, swap them around or introduce new tubes if need. See what happens.

There are bias points in the amplifier as well as two trimmers that have to be accessed anyway. So when setting bias the amplifier needs to be open.


----------



## Duffy49

mickeydg5 said:


> First I just have to say there are high voltages inside the amplifier. If you are unfamiliar with handling this then take it to your technician.
> 
> If you feel comfortable and can fool with it take your time . . . .




Thanks for this more detailed information.

I will take the back off the amp and check the tubes. I may pull the chassis and use electrical contact cleaner on the tube pins and sockets, as well as all jacks (inserting a cable plug in and out of the jacks several times after spraying). How much farther I go will depend on the situation. I have to take it to the amp man to get it biased anyway, and I can have him check it over as well.

This radio signal/distortion problem is something I want to take care of.

Also, when the problem is occurring, when I turn down the volume on the guitar all the way it has zero affect on the level of the roaring. 

Only pulling the cable out of the amp or switching to standby breaks the cycle. I can then plug back in immediately or switch off of standby and start playing again for an indefinite length of time, from a half hour to four hours or more before the problem initiates itself again unpredictably.


----------



## jimmyjames

If the 40c has similar bias points to the 15h, you'll only need a multimeter, unless you want to check plate voltage without probing around. (I cooled my 15h off a little, using info from this forum)


----------



## Micky

jimmyjames said:


> If the 40c has similar bias points to the 15h, you'll only need a multimeter, unless you want to check plate voltage without probing around. (I cooled my 15h off a little, using info from this forum)



Correct. As stated on the very first page of this thread, all one needs to check the bias is a meter that reads in the millivolt range and the appropriate clips on the meter leads. To adjust the bias, you need a (preferably) non-metalic screwdriver or adjustment tool as well as a meter. Pretty easy for a novice to do, routine for an experienced tech.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Well I think out of all the speakers I tried with the DSL40 the Celestion V-type sounds the best, I like it more because it really sounds the most balanced. Speakers I used were the Celestion V-Type, Creamback 65, Creamback 75, Eminence CV-75 and stock 70/80 all good speakers, my order of preference would be:

Celestion V-Type
Celestion Creamback 65
Eminence CV-75
Celestion Creamback 75
Celestion 70/80


----------



## mickeydg5

Duffy49 said:


> Thanks for this more detailed information.
> 
> I will take the back off the amp and check the tubes. I may pull the chassis and use electrical contact cleaner on the tube pins and sockets, as well as all jacks (inserting a cable plug in and out of the jacks several times after spraying). How much farther I go will depend on the situation. I have to take it to the amp man to get it biased anyway, and I can have him check it over as well.
> 
> This radio signal/distortion problem is something I want to take care of.
> 
> Also, when the problem is occurring, when I turn down the volume on the guitar all the way it has zero affect on the level of the roaring.
> 
> Only pulling the cable out of the amp or switching to standby breaks the cycle. I can then plug back in immediately or switch off of standby and start playing again for an indefinite length of time, from a half hour to four hours or more before the problem initiates itself again unpredictably.


That statement may very well indicate an interruption in the ground rail. Without a good connection through the wiring and connections back to chassis ground there will be no good control. The chassis ground is "AC GROUND" for noise and interference. If ground rail from the guitar has no connection to chassis ground then everything (all signal) including noise and interference is being directed to the V1 input.


----------



## lordquilton

J.LaGrassa said:


> Well I think out of all the speakers I tried with the DSL40 the Celestion V-type sounds the best, I like it more because it really sounds the most balanced. Speakers I used were the Celestion V-Type, Creamback 65, Creamback 75, Eminence CV-75 and stock 70/80 all good speakers, my order of preference would be:
> 
> Celestion V-Type
> Celestion Creamback 65
> Eminence CV-75
> Celestion Creamback 75
> Celestion 70/80



Wanna hear another sample of the V-Type when it's broken in!


----------



## J.LaGrassa

lordquilton said:


> Wanna hear another sample of the V-Type when it's broken in!




Guess I will just have to crank my amp every night  I'm already starting to hear it settle in!


----------



## motix

Hey everyone. Just bought the dsl40c.
I need some help with the tone settings and i have some other questions...

1. How can you set this amp for playing jimmy page live tone?
2. Blues settings?
3. Slash settings?
4. Metal - Metallica settings?
5. What exactly does the "tone shift" button do?
6. Is there a pedal with more options?
7. Did you get a case/cover with it? I didnt get one..
8. What really happens when you use the 20w button? One valve shuts down?


----------



## Duffy49

mickeydg5 said:


> Duffy
> If you can get this to happen again just try turning the GAIN controls to zero. Does the problem go away?




I removed the back from the amp today, warmed it up, played a while and then tapped the tubes. I did not hear anything out of the ordinary; so I played some more and, sure enough, the radio station/roaring set itself up and I quickly moved to the amp and turned the gain knob down all the way. The roaring lessened and stopped when I turned the gain knob down to zero. I suppose at zero there would be no output from the speaker anyway, but as I approached zero the problem stopped. 

I switched the first three preamp tubes on the left around and played again. Soon the radio signal/roar started again. At this point I tapped around and one of the preamp tubes responded to the tapping and the noise changed and then stopped with one of the taps. I believe this was the second or third tube from the left, looking into the back of the amp. I removed the offending tube and switched it with the tube to the far right that has a rubber gasket on it (phase inverter?).

After switching this tube into the socket with the rubber gasket, the problem has not occurred again. I have played the amp for several hours, on and off, and just stopped playing it again. I will play the amp again tomorrow as much as I can and see if it holds up.

It is possible that I have identified an offending preamp tube, and that moving it to the far right socket may have eliminated the problem. As I continue to test the amp for the next couple days, if the amp continues to operate without picking up radio stations/roaring, I may conclude that the problem has been corrected. If this is the case I will replace all the preamp tubes with recommended high quality ones.

The preliminary results of moving the tubes around seem to be positive. I will monitor this.

Also, when I pulled the tubes I sprayed the pins and sockets with Deoxit, including the power tubes.

Speaking of power tubes, I observed that the power tube to the right has a dark transparent line that fades into the glass right in the area where the glass is supposed to be completely transparent, about an inch and a half down from the top of the tube. I wonder if this indicates that the tube has been running hot or something. The line has a blue'ish tint to it. I wonder if this indicates that this tube is failing. The other tube is completely clear at that area.

Again, thanks for all the ideas and suggestions so far.

If any of this sounds familiar to anyone, please let me know what you think.


----------



## lordquilton

On the DSL 40C, the preamp valve nearest the input jack is V1, not PI.
I don't know whats doing on, but if it were me I would have assumed the bad tube was V1. Moving a bad valve doesn't make it "better", I would have thought moving a bad valve to V1 would have made things worse somehow?


----------



## Micky

I have gone over this in this thread in the past, but will try to do it briefly here again...

Each preamp tube has 2 halves, kinda like 2 tubes in 1 glass envelope.

V1 is the tube with the grommet on it. It is the input 'buffer' so to speak, only half of this tube (V1a) is used on the Classic Channel. Both halves are used on the Ultra Channel.

V2 is the next tube over, it is simply a cascaded gain stage, where V2a feeds V2b. I suspect this is where your problem was...

V3 is the tube responsible for the tone stack (V3b actually).

V4 is the Phase Inverter (PI) and actually part of the power section.

The power tube problem you describe sounds fairly normal, you should at least check the bias with a merer when you get the chassis out...


----------



## frankyfal

motix said:


> Hey everyone. Just bought the dsl40c.
> I need some help with the tone settings and i have some other questions...
> 
> 1. How can you set this amp for playing jimmy page live tone?
> 2. Blues settings?
> 3. Slash settings?
> 4. Metal - Metallica settings?
> 5. What exactly does the "tone shift" button do?
> 6. Is there a pedal with more options?
> 7. Did you get a case/cover with it? I didnt get one..
> 8. What really happens when you use the 20w button? One valve shuts down?



HINT: Keep the receipt in case you decide to get a JVM205H and a 212 cab or the combo. I am going that route soon and will sell my combo probably. 

The best way to get those first 2 answers IMO is (green channel) to turn the volume on the amp to 8 and slowly adjust your gain and tone knobs until you like the sound. Repeat the same for 3 and 4 on the red channel. 
This I found to be sort of easy and lots of fun once I realized this isn't and never will be a bedroom amp. It needs to be at a loud volume to shine, but it sounds great when you learn to dial in your tones. 

There are no other pedal options. 

The JVM205H has a programmable footswitch and separate tone knobs for each channel so you wont have to worry about a c-19 clip to even out the tone between channels or using a pedal to get more tones. Clean, crunch, lead, lead 2 or any combo of 4 settings ect are all a stomp away. The 212 cab is closed back and sounds more Marshally.

The case is sold separately.


----------



## dylumph

I got 2 of these amps. I started playing with my first back in May. My band plays rock n roll from the 50s.60s,70s and a few newer ones. I don't need all that gain on the amp. The first one I got I took back to Sam Ash cause of a bad preamp tube hollerin'. Got a new one & another one from Sweetwater with the Creamback and started reading this thread. I heard the hum so I started fiddling with tubes. I tried a set Mesa Boogie pre and power tubes. They were ok. I tried vintage Mullards out of one of my old Hiwatts. I kept reading abut JJs. I had bunches of JJ Ecc 83s for my AC 30. They did sound good so I put them in both. I had a quad set of GT (jj) EL34LS as a spare for my Hiwatts (which still work fine 42 years later). They sound fantastic in these DSL40cs! They themselfs are 12 years old. I A/Bed them both together and the creamback was REALLY better. Now when I use both I use one for clean (green) & one for crunch (green). I hate the gain channels. For higher gain stuff, I use a OCD. I run my pedal board (tuner,OCD, Chorus,tremelo,digital delay,analog delay and Boss EQ) straight in the front. In theFX loop I put a Isp Decimator noise reducer there. I've read all the post about the onboard reverb. On both of mine THE REVERB WILL NOT WORK WITH THE FX LOOP ON! I don't know if thats normal but I don't care, I hate onboard reverb. Not so much the slight digital stock one on these but those spring thingies on all the Fenders. I still think of them as a poor man's FX. with the noisegate, JJs and creamback, I'm set! Man, I was really getting anal!


----------



## dylumph

Oh yeah, I put (JJs) GT ECC83 Ss in both my V-1s.


----------



## mickeydg5

I thought the grommeted tube was V1.

Anyone have a link to a tube location diagram or a full board picture showing locations with reference to DSL40C amplifier? If so please post it.
I get tired of looking and all I find is close up pictures of the board.

I think Duffy's problem is intermittent. Duffy let us know if something pops up.

Turning the GAIN to zero will cut any (noise/oscillation) signal coming from the INPUT and amplified by V1A. The gain controls are after V1A. When set at zero no signal passes to the rest of the amplifier. No signal, no output.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

mickeydg5 said:


> I thought the grommeted tube was V1.
> 
> Anyone have a link to a tube location diagram or a full board picture showing locations with reference to DSL40C amplifier? If so please post it.
> I get tired of looking and all I find is close up pictures of the board.
> 
> I think Duffy's problem is intermittent. Duffy let us know if something pops up.
> 
> Turning the GAIN to zero will cut any (noise/oscillation) signal coming from the INPUT and amplified by V1A. The gain controls are after V1A. When set at zero no signal passes to the rest of the amplifier. No signal, no output.



V1 is the tube with the Grommet


----------



## Micky

J.LaGrassa said:


> V1 is the tube with the Grommet



Isn't that what I said? Over and over?


----------



## Duffy49

mickeydg5 said:


> I thought the grommeted tube was V1.
> 
> Anyone have a link to a tube location diagram or a full board picture showing locations with reference to DSL40C amplifier? If so please post it.
> I get tired of looking and all I find is close up pictures of the board.
> 
> I think Duffy's problem is intermittent. Duffy let us know if something pops up.
> 
> Turning the GAIN to zero will cut any (noise/oscillation) signal coming from the INPUT and amplified by V1A. The gain controls are after V1A. When set at zero no signal passes to the rest of the amplifier. No signal, no output.



I have had the amp on for 24 hours and have been playing it for several hours with no incidence of radio/roaring. I will let you know if it happens again.

Tonight I put in new ECC83S preamp tubes. The tubes I removed tested as "good" on an Orange tube testing unit, so I kept them as extras. Not being a really expensive tube tester, the guy told me that he has had the tester "not" detect known microphonic preamp tubes. So it could still be a case of a microphonic tube.

I will see how the new JJ ECC83S's do.

Thanks to everyone for the input, so far, and I will keep you posted on how this turns out in the immediate future as well as the long run.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Micky said:


> Isn't that what I said? Over and over?



Yep!


----------



## mickeydg5

Micky said:


> Isn't that what I said? Over and over?





J.LaGrassa said:


> Yep!


 
Yep, yep, yep.

Anyone know where a full board picture resides? Link?


----------



## Pumpkin88

What aftermarket speaker is good for using higher amounts bass and distortion? Not necessarily full on metal, but 90's grunge type sounds.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Pumpkin88 said:


> What aftermarket speaker is good for using higher amounts bass and distortion? Not necessarily full on metal, but 90's grunge type sounds.



I have a Celestion V-Type in mine, very well balanced speaker. It should handle quite a few styles of music.


----------



## Sournote

So today I picked up an Orange PPC112 with Vintage 30. My initial impressions with the DSL are its not as much improvement I as expected. 

I had thought I might swap the V30 into the DSL but unless more playing time convinces me otherwise I'm thinking I'll leave the cab as is and use it as the grab and go with either my HT5 or Micro Terror and use the DSL as is.


----------



## Micky

Sournote said:


> So today I picked up an Orange PPC112 with Vintage 30. My initial impressions with the DSL are its not as much improvement I as expected.
> 
> I had thought I might swap the V30 into the DSL but unless more playing time convinces me otherwise I'm thinking I'll leave the cab as is and use it as the grab and go with either my HT5 or Micro Terror and use the DSL as is.



So what have you got in the 40c now?
A V30 installed in there would sound great...


----------



## Sournote

Micky said:


> So what have you got in the 40c now?
> A V30 installed in there would sound great...



Bone Stock DSL40, so its still got the 70/80.


----------



## AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing

you who like the celestion v type...you like that over the wgs vet30?


----------



## Duffy49

I eliminated the radio/roaring problem with my 40c, but have discovered another problem.

I played the amp the other night for quite some time at low volume. I had already installed some new JJ preamp tubes.

I had turned it off overnight and turned it back on to play at louder volumes and found that the amp is now only producing low volume sound, on both channels. Crank the gain and volume and even change channels and there is nothing but less than conversational volume being produced by the amp. This is quite mysterious.

The power tubes do not seem to be microphonic when tapped with a pencil.

It seems odd that the amp functions, but only outputs very low volume sound. I checked all the obvious settings, etc., changed cables and guitars, and zero affect on the low volume.

It looks like I will have to take the amp to the tech and see what he can do. This problem is beyond my ability to troubleshoot and repair.

It seems like a good sign that the amp is producing sound on both channels, even though it is unusable. Somewhere the sound is not being amplified to rocking out levels. The amp guy should be able to fix it, hopefully without too much trouble. I'll find this out shortly.

In the meantime I moved my Vox AC15C1 into the vacated spot and have been using it on the "Top Boost" channel. It sounds amazing with a variety of guitars and produces nice moderately overdriven sounds. This is not a bad amp to have to use while waiting to get the DSL40c sorted out and repaired.

The DSL40C had been my main amp until the recent problems. I also have my DSL100H and "vintage" style Avatar two by twelve cab, with dual Eminence "Swamp Thang" speakers, right here and I'm using it now as well. It is in brand new condition and runs well. Cranking this rig up a little is rewarding, ha ha.

I thought I had the 40c fixed but such is not the case. It will be interesting to find out what the culprit is. When I first discovered that the amp will not turn up I was stressed out all day worrying about it. I'm mellowed out now and am happy to use my existing rigs until it gets fixed.

Speaking of speakers, the "Swamp Thangs" are great sounding speakers with a very nice sound spectrum, including great low end and zero shrilliness in the high end. They sound great clean and driven. They handle the high gain real well, as well as the classic crunch. they are really on another plane from the stock 40c speaker. I'm surprised more people don't check them out, especially to tame the brightness that some complain about - they are a natural at that. I described them more in the "Everything speakers" thread.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Duffy49 said:


> I eliminated the radio/roaring problem with my 40c, but have discovered another problem.
> 
> I played the amp the other night for quite some time at low volume. I had already installed some new JJ preamp tubes.
> 
> I had turned it off overnight and turned it back on to play at louder volumes and found that the amp is now only producing low volume sound, on both channels. Crank the gain and volume and even change channels and there is nothing but less than conversational volume being produced by the amp. This is quite mysterious.
> 
> The power tubes do not seem to be microphonic when tapped with a pencil.
> 
> It seems odd that the amp functions, but only outputs very low volume sound. I checked all the obvious settings, etc., changed cables and guitars, and zero affect on the low volume.
> 
> It looks like I will have to take the amp to the tech and see what he can do. This problem is beyond my ability to troubleshoot and repair.
> 
> It seems like a good sign that the amp is producing sound on both channels, even though it is unusable. Somewhere the sound is not being amplified to rocking out levels. The amp guy should be able to fix it, hopefully without too much trouble. I'll find this out shortly.
> 
> In the meantime I moved my Vox AC15C1 into the vacated spot and have been using it on the "Top Boost" channel. It sounds amazing with a variety of guitars and produces nice moderately overdriven sounds. This is not a bad amp to have to use while waiting to get the DSL40c sorted out and repaired.
> 
> The DSL40C had been my main amp until the recent problems. I also have my DSL100H and "vintage" style Avatar two by twelve cab, with dual Eminence "Swamp Thang" speakers, right here and I'm using it now as well. It is in brand new condition and runs well. Cranking this rig up a little is rewarding, ha ha.
> 
> I thought I had the 40c fixed but such is not the case. It will be interesting to find out what the culprit is. When I first discovered that the amp will not turn up I was stressed out all day worrying about it. I'm mellowed out now and am happy to use my existing rigs until it gets fixed.
> 
> Speaking of speakers, the "Swamp Thangs" are great sounding speakers with a very nice sound spectrum, including great low end and zero shrilliness in the high end. They sound great clean and driven. They handle the high gain real well, as well as the classic crunch. they are really on another plane from the stock 40c speaker. I'm surprised more people don't check them out, especially to tame the brightness that some complain about - they are a natural at that. I described them more in the "Everything speakers" thread.




Are you using the fx loop? there is a loop bypass button that turns a relay on or off that could have bad contacts, try inserting a cable only into the loop and see if anything happens. Try re-seating all the tubes as well!


----------



## Micky

Sournote said:


> Bone Stock DSL40, so its still got the 70/80.



I would swap the speakers just to hear the difference.

I still say the 70/80 will perform much better in a closed cab.

And the 40c was built with a V30 in mind...


----------



## Micky

Duffy49 said:


> I eliminated the radio/roaring problem with my 40c, but have discovered another problem.



So how did you fix the RFI Problem?

I will still bet the other problem is preamp tubes...


----------



## Duffy49

J.LaGrassa said:


> Are you using the fx loop? there is a loop bypass button that turns a relay on or off that could have bad contacts, try inserting a cable only into the loop and see if anything happens. Try re-seating all the tubes as well!



I don't use the loop.

Do you mean insert a cable into both the send and return FX jacks, as in a jumper? Then do I push in the FX loop button as well?

I will reseat the tubes. Multiple times I have made sure that they are all the way in, using a circular motion while attempting to seat them better. I'll take them out and put them back in. I also replaced the new tubes with the old ones and there is no difference. The new tubes are back in it.

It seems like there is plenty of power there but it just isn't getting to the speaker for some reason. I checked the speaker connections and jack as well. I will also try headphones in the FX loop "send" as well and see if they work properly; if they do that may point to a problem in the power amp section.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

mickeydg5 said:


> Yep, yep, yep.
> 
> Anyone know where a full board picture resides? Link?



Here are some pics I took of the circuit board but its in sections!


----------



## Duffy49

Micky said:


> So how did you fix the RFI Problem?
> 
> I will still bet the other problem is preamp tubes...



I switched the tubes around and eliminated the RFI problem.

Then I replaced the preamp tubes and played it for 24 hours, turned it off for the night, and when I turned it back on all I have is very faint sound - slightly louder on the red channel, but a less than conversational volume level at best.

The original preamp tubes that I replaced all tested as good on an Orange tube tester. I installed new ones anyway. I hope I didn't damage the output transformer.


----------



## Sournote

Micky said:


> I would swap the speakers just to hear the difference.
> 
> I still say the 70/80 will perform much better in a closed cab.
> 
> And the 40c was built with a V30 in mind...



I may try that over the winter. I basically think I'm a slow learner as I tend to take a while to decide how I like something so I want to get used to the V30 in the closed cab before changing anything.

Also, I was kinda' wondering how much moving the V30 to the open combo would hurt its sound.


----------



## recto-robbie

I tried a WGS veteran 30, a really good copy of the v30 and it sounded pretty good in it. Much better than the stock 70/80. I didn't try it at gig levels though. I preferred an old worn in g12t75 slightly to the veteran 30 mostly because it seemed to tame the highs even more, at the time I was swapping speakers I was mainly trying to rid the amp of its shrillness, a speaker is all it takes. I wound up buying a g12m65 creamback and its the speaker I have decided to keep in mine. Tight bottom, cleans sparkle compared to the g12t75 and the speaker has this huge 3d sound or something to it.


----------



## recto-robbie

Has anybody tried the 40c combo in tandem with a cab? Both combo and cab speakers plugged in.
Don't want to sound foolish here but did it sound good using both???
If I were to use speakers with the same sensitivity rating in combo and cab would one or the other drown out the other rendering this idea useless????
Im wondering if the speaker outputs will be equal or are they mismatched??

Ive done this with my Mesas in the past and have always loved the much fuller bigger sound I get, not louder, just bigger.

thanks guys


----------



## Micky

You got it exactly. Much bigger sound.

I have done this with several speakers, it sounds best with my 1960a cab loaded with Eminence Swamp Thangs. Just an incredibly powerful sound.

The cab has so much bass it offsets the combo speaker being so bright. Just an awesome combination.


----------



## mickeydg5

Sournote said:


> So today I picked up an Orange PPC112 with Vintage 30. My initial impressions with the DSL are its not as much improvement I as expected.
> 
> I had thought I might swap the V30 into the DSL but unless more playing time convinces me otherwise I'm thinking I'll leave the cab as is and use it as the grab and go with either my HT5 or Micro Terror and use the DSL as is.


Not much improvement with both speakers hooked up?

More speakers most always sounds better.


----------



## mickeydg5

Duffy49 said:


> I switched the tubes around and eliminated the RFI problem.
> 
> Then I replaced the preamp tubes and played it for 24 hours, turned it off for the night, and when I turned it back on all I have is very faint sound - slightly louder on the red channel, but a less than conversational volume level at best.
> 
> The original preamp tubes that I replaced all tested as good on an Orange tube tester. I installed new ones anyway. I hope I didn't damage the output transformer.


Most presumably, like I mentioned, intermittent problem.


----------



## Swede

recto-robbie said:


> Has anybody tried the 40c combo in tandem with a cab? Both combo and cab speakers plugged in.
> Don't want to sound foolish here but did it sound good using both???
> If I were to use speakers with the same sensitivity rating in combo and cab would one or the other drown out the other rendering this idea useless????
> Im wondering if the speaker outputs will be equal or are they mismatched??
> 
> Ive done this with my Mesas in the past and have always loved the much fuller bigger sound I get, not louder, just bigger.
> 
> thanks guys



Im doing that right now......Invader in amp, ET65 in cab....Sounds BIGGER yes. More balls


----------



## dylumph

I tried a 2x12 V-30 (16ohm output) loaded cabinet with the Creamback (16ohm) @ 8 ohms etc.. I sounded great, bigger- but so did the 4x12 fane loaded Hiwatt & 2x12 JBL cabinet. That really defeats the reason I got the DSL40C. Lightweight & easy. It kinda sucks to sacrifice tone for age, back and siatic nerve but the soundman doesn't bitch!


----------



## Duffy49

mickeydg5 said:


> Most presumably, like I mentioned, intermittent problem.



I appreciate your ideas on this situation.

The amp continues to only output volume at less than conversational levels. This condition seems to be a constant at this point. The radio interference is not present.

I talked to the amp man and it's off to be repaired next week.

Also, this guy makes handmade amps and I'm thinking of having one made. He makes Marshall or Fender style amps, plus other variations. I'm thinking of having him make a Fender type one, but maybe a Marshall type would be interesting.

I'm looking forward to having the DSL40c fixed. Hopefully it will be a good, strong repair. I'll let you know how it goes.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Got to use my DSL40 with the Celestion V-Type last night with my band it was the first time I got to hear the V-Type in a band mix and it did not disappoint, it cuts great. The speaker is not dominated by all mids the highs and lows were all where I dialed them in and very pleasing, definitely my favorite speaker in this amp much better to my ears than than either of the Creambacks I had.


----------



## Duffy49

J.LaGrassa said:


> Got to use my DSL40 with the Celestion V-Type last night with my band it was the first time I got to hear the V-Type in a band mix and it did not disappoint, it cuts great. The speaker is not dominated by all mids the highs and lows were all where I dialed them in and very pleasing, definitely my favorite speaker in this amp much better to my ears than than either of the Creambacks I had.



It looks like you are doing very well with the new speaker. Good luck with it.

Nice looking PRS in the avatar by the way.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Duffy49 said:


> It looks like you are doing very well with the new speaker. Good luck with it.
> 
> Nice looking PRS in the avatar by the way.




Thanks, I've had that about 15 years now its such a comfortable guitar to play.


----------



## armandodiaz

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Is there something in the room that could be vibrating while you're playing? My baseboard heaters do and make this weird ass noise. Just a thought. I wonder why the tech didn't notice it...yet as soon as you get it fired up and playing its right there? Weird.
> 
> Is there a certain volume level it does it at? You said you turned it up and it made that sound as opposed to not making it while the volume was lowered.



I once had a 12 string acoustic hang on the wall, just above my amp. The low E would buzz, at certain points. Drove me crazy for a couple of weeks, trying to figure out what it was.


----------



## mickeydg5

Duffy49 said:


> I appreciate your ideas on this situation.
> 
> The amp continues to only output volume at less than conversational levels. This condition seems to be a constant at this point. The radio interference is not present.
> 
> I talked to the amp man and it's off to be repaired next week.
> 
> Also, this guy makes handmade amps and I'm thinking of having one made. He makes Marshall or Fender style amps, plus other variations. I'm thinking of having him make a Fender type one, but maybe a Marshall type would be interesting.
> 
> I'm looking forward to having the DSL40c fixed. Hopefully it will be a good, strong repair. I'll let you know how it goes.


There is a chance that whatever is causing the two problems is connected. That fact that the input and signal is very low/weak now is most likely halting the oscillation problem.


----------



## Micky

mickeydg5 said:


> There is a chance that whatever is causing the two problems is connected. That fact that the input and signal is very low/weak now is most likely halting the oscillation problem.



And if swapping or replacing the preamp tubes is the common factor here, I say a preamp tube or tubes is to blame here in both cases. Actually could be 1/2 of a preamp tube, did the OP say it had the problem in both channels in all modes?


----------



## armandodiaz

wangchung said:


> M'Lord;
> There are very noticable differences b'twn 100, 220 & 470pf for C19.
> Had I kept the thing and put in a 3-way for C19 I would have used 100,
> 220 and something around 400.
> Yes, the cap materiel adds a texture to the sound. Ceramic is "crunchier",
> poly is fizzier, and Mica is glassy. Go figure. At least to my ears. at one point I ran a mica parallel with a ceramic and could hear it.
> Good hunting sir.



Where can I get the 3-way capacitor? I'm thinking of going 0-100-220pf?


----------



## Micky

Put 2 caps on a three-position switch.


----------



## RockDoc

Hey everybody, new here. Thanks to all for your posts, I have read all 88 pages....... Sweetwater had the DSL40 with the Creamback upgrade so I couldn't resist, have had it about two weeks now. Like it, don't love it yet but I am trying. Have already swapped out stock tubes for JJ. One QC issue I had is when I removed the chassis the retaining nuts were held in place by gobs of hot glue! WTH?!? When I tried to re-assemble the nuts started falling out, @#%^! Now they are held in place by painters blue tape, I think I will have to do some side bolts eventually. Terrible execution by the factory on those. I did contact Marshall on the weak reverb and their response was "Unfortunately this item has a very mild reverb in it. The only options really are to use a separate reverb pedal or rack effect." But hey, you all know that already.


----------



## Micky

Did you contact them about the chassis nuts?
Did you get a refurb? Or was it NIB? Nuts should be welded to the chassis...


----------



## armandodiaz

Micky said:


> Put 2 caps on a three-position switch.



????

Not really getting it. I'm not a very experienced in this. Is there a write-up? I've been going through this thread for over a week (on page 38 now).


----------



## Micky

If you can't wire it in, maybe taking it to a qualified tech would be better.
Explain what you want to do and I am certain they could help.

There is no real writeup about this, some members are very qualified techs and have the ability to replace board components easily. The mere fact that you ask these questions leads me to believe you are a better guitar player than amp modder, so without being disrespectful and not knowing your ability level there are just some things better left to others. Wiring in this type of modification is not for the beginner. One needs to have excellent soldering skills, the equipment to do the job as well as an in-depth understanding of the concepts involved with the modification as well as the ability to complete the task. There are lethal voltages inside the amp that can kill you. Proper care is required when working on tube amps, as well as having a healthy respect for the electricity contained within them.

That being said, a miniature SPDT or DPDT switch can be wired to switch in one or the other small caps of your choice. While no explicit instructions exist in this thread to document this, some members have experimented with different values and depending on the other variables (such as speaker choice, volume and gain levels, guitar and pickup choices) have either placed a different value in place of the bright cap, or eliminated it altogether. You may not need to change the cap at all...


----------



## RockDoc

It was new in box, but of course somebody had to put the Creamback in there, so maybe something fishy. It seems brand new though, I did not contact them about the nuts but will probably send Marshall something so maybe they can tighten up QC. Unless I have to go back in there and do the C19 mod or when I rebias it's not a major issue for me - I will proabably just put in some new side bolts/screws to the chassis. It's just seems easier than shipping back and forth. But I'll wait until warranty is out. Thanks Micky.


----------



## Micky

You can easily swap out the speaker without removing the chassis.

Anyway, glad to have you as well as all the other new members here!

Be sure to post here with whatever you find, let other members know what you can do with this great amp!


----------



## frankyfal

RockDoc said:


> Hey everybody, new here. Thanks to all for your posts, I have read all 88 pages....... Sweetwater had the DSL40 with the Creamback upgrade so I couldn't resist, have had it about two weeks now. Like it, don't love it yet but I am trying. Have already swapped out stock tubes for JJ. One QC issue I had is when I removed the chassis the retaining nuts were held in place by gobs of hot glue! WTH?!? When I tried to re-assemble the nuts started falling out, @#%^! Now they are held in place by painters blue tape, I think I will have to do some side bolts eventually. Terrible execution by the factory on those. I did contact Marshall on the weak reverb and their response was "Unfortunately this item has a very mild reverb in it. The only options really are to use a separate reverb pedal or rack effect." But hey, you all know that already.


These work :


----------



## J.LaGrassa

RockDoc said:


> Hey everybody, new here. Thanks to all for your posts, I have read all 88 pages....... Sweetwater had the DSL40 with the Creamback upgrade so I couldn't resist, have had it about two weeks now. Like it, don't love it yet but I am trying. Have already swapped out stock tubes for JJ. One QC issue I had is when I removed the chassis the retaining nuts were held in place by gobs of hot glue! WTH?!? When I tried to re-assemble the nuts started falling out, @#%^! Now they are held in place by painters blue tape, I think I will have to do some side bolts eventually. Terrible execution by the factory on those. I did contact Marshall on the weak reverb and their response was "Unfortunately this item has a very mild reverb in it. The only options really are to use a separate reverb pedal or rack effect." But hey, you all know that already.



2 of mine fell out the first time I pulled my chassis this seems to be a common problem, those nuts are press fitted.

Here is a shot of the clips I installed on my chassis I used a little crazy glue to hold the clips in place better, i bought a couple of 1/4-20 screws and colored them black to match the rest!


----------



## RockDoc

Excellent! I was considering something like that also, just had not decided yet. Where did you find those clips, local hardware or what? Thanks.


----------



## RockDoc

I know this has been covered many times but thought I would share this response from Marshall Tech Support on the tube functions:
V1a-input gain stage, V1b-first overdrive gain stage
V2a-clean/od gain stage, V2b-second clean/od gain stage
V3a-aditional gain stage, V3b –tone stack driver
V4 Phase Inverter
Reverb is controlled by an opamp with this amplifier


----------



## J.LaGrassa

RockDoc said:


> Excellent! I was considering something like that also, just had not decided yet. Where did you find those clips, local hardware or what? Thanks.



any hardware store should have them, I got mine at Home Depot!


----------



## So Cal Steve

recto-robbie said:


> I tried a WGS veteran 30, a really good copy of the v30 and it sounded pretty good in it. Much better than the stock 70/80. I didn't try it at gig levels though. I preferred an old worn in g12t75 slightly to the veteran 30 mostly because it seemed to tame the highs even more, at the time I was swapping speakers I was mainly trying to rid the amp of its shrillness, a speaker is all it takes. I wound up buying a g12m65 creamback and its the speaker I have decided to keep in mine. Tight bottom, cleans sparkle compared to the g12t75 and the speaker has this huge 3d sound or something to it.



I picked up a used Vet 30 last week and it's up for sale on CL now. It sounded like the mids were buried - did not work well for me at all. I was expecting the opposite. Very bass heavy and clear treble, but the mids sounded covered up or something weird.

70/80 works for me.


----------



## Mr Jones

Marshall DSL40C Guitar Combo Amplifier (40 Watts, 1x12"), Blemished


----------



## Dizzyg12

Dizzyg12 said:


> Hey long time no post - I've been too busy with work to even play much, but the other day I experienced something a little weird. Turned the amp on as usual and let it warm up. Plugged in and started to play but no sound.....checked all the cables and such.....all good all connected. Then it started really faint, low volume. No bad sounds just not very loud. Then it got loud and would cut in and out. after toggling between pickups thinking it may be a bad pickup or a volume/tone pot, I concluded it wasnt the guitat although I didn't plug in another one to completely eliminate that possibility. Soon enough it was running full throttle and sounded normal. And I played for about 4 straight hours without a hitch.
> 
> I'm going to try again tomorrow and hopefully she's over her cold, but whAt do ya think - power tubes going?




So after playing again with as couple different guitars Ifigured out what the issue was..... The power input to my wah pedal had worked it's easy loose and was half out. I guess it was connected enough to get a signal through but was causing it to be low volume our none at all. Crisis averted


----------



## AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing

you think thats just how they sound in that amp or was it a problem with that particular speaker?


----------



## AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing

So Cal Steve said:


> I picked up a used Vet 30 last week and it's up for sale on CL now. It sounded like the mids were buried - did not work well for me at all. I was expecting the opposite. Very bass heavy and clear treble, but the mids sounded covered up or something weird.
> 
> 70/80 works for me.




my bad. only been using the internet for 20 years. lets try this again. the question above refers to this quote.


----------



## Duffy49

So Cal Steve said:


> I picked up a used Vet 30 last week and it's up for sale on CL now. It sounded like the mids were buried - did not work well for me at all. I was expecting the opposite. Very bass heavy and clear treble, but the mids sounded covered up or something weird.
> 
> 70/80 works for me.



The Seventy/80 speaker is a decent speaker, but the Eminence "Swamp Thangs", very sensitive and loud, plus full of solid bass, midrange, and a very nice and mellow high end, sound super great in my two by twelve new Avatar vintage style, black with gold piping old school looking cabinet, sound really slaying with my DSL100H head, and are in my opinion a superior improvement over the sound of the stock Seventy/80 in my combo. I have not hooked up the two by twelve Avatar to the combo yet, but will after it is fixed.

Good luck with your speaker quest.

I have other Seventy/80's in other amps and they are half way decent speakers and can be purchased at a very reasonable price from the Avatar company, for instance - the owner has very decent remarks to make concerning the Seventy/80 as a good speaker at a very excellent price.

When you start playing with some premium quality speakers, they can change your outlook on a lot of stock speakers. The Swamp Thangs squashed any potential treble ice pickiness, instantly. Plus they are specified as 150 watts each according to the Eminence speaker rating system, which is different from the way other companies rate their speakers power handling specifications. 

These speakers should not blow even when I crank the amp with overdrive/distortion pedals and boost pedals and even other pedals in the chain. A lot of pedals in the chain can significantly increase the signal hitting the preamp when you crank the amp and the pedals up, resulting in a heavy hit to the power amp and speaker. 

Having a lot of extra power handling capability in the speaker can definitely be a good thing for those of us that load up the pedal board and crank the amp up with ultra high gain and distortion, etc. 

Some professionals use speakers rated at four or five times the amps power rating. Overheating the speaker for a fraction of a second can blow the speaker, so a margin of safety covering the unpredictable, oftentimes, typhoon of power hitting the speaker can be a good idea. 

Those expensive Electro-Voice guitar speakers are rated at two or three hundred watts and are considered to be great speakers. I think Joe Bonamassa has been known to favor these speakers.


----------



## AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing

Is there any value to youtube/etc. speakers demos if they're in different amps or using different guitars from what you have? Can they at all be used to judge how a speaker sounds?


----------



## Micky

AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing said:


> Is there any value to youtube/etc. speakers demos if they're in different amps or using different guitars from what you have? Can they at all be used to judge how a speaker sounds?



Sure.

If you can find a demo that uses different speakers but keeps the same amp/guitar/pickups where the only variable is the speaker, then yes it is a valid comparison. If you can A/B things and only change one variable, it doesn't matter how shitty it sounds if you can tell the difference. 

After all, the difference is what you are after...


----------



## RockDoc

Last night I tried the DSL40C through a Weber Gray Wolf (12"), and an Emminence Lil Buddy (10") sort of an apples and oranges comparison but it was cool to compare and then go back to the installed Creamback. So far the Gray Wolf and Creamback are faves. Tonight I'm gonna try an Emminence copperhead and a redcoat-what fun! I have an assortment of pre-amp tubes that I'm gonna start rolling through as well. Ya'll have me wanting to try the SwampThang too. I put the Weber in a Seismic Audio cabinet cause they have some great prices, build quality is very good-and no I don't work for Seismic.


----------



## So Cal Steve

AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing said:


> you think thats just how they sound in that amp or was it a problem with that particular speaker?



Definitely the speaker voicing. In fact, I was reading some reviews about the Vet 30 at another forum and a couple of people decribed it as having a cloud over it.

I've had a couple of different WGS speakers and they sounded great, but this one didn't do it for me. It's supposed to be a smoother version of a Vintage 30 but I think they got it too smooth to have any cut.


----------



## AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing

hmmm...so either a real v30 or something else? i found a youtube demo of taht special sweetwater model with the creamback...sounded good to me!


----------



## J.LaGrassa

So Cal Steve said:


> Definitely the speaker voicing. In fact, I was reading some reviews about the Vet 30 at another forum and a couple of people decribed it as having a cloud over it.
> 
> I've had a couple of different WGS speakers and they sounded great, but this one didn't do it for me. It's supposed to be a smoother version of a Vintage 30 but I think they got it too smooth to have any cut.




I think you would like the V-Type, I'm really surprised how good this one sounds with the DSL40.


----------



## AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing

that one got mentioned in this or another thread, the creamback gets high marks too. i would like something to mellow out the red channel.


----------



## guitarman3001

So Cal Steve said:


> Definitely the speaker voicing. In fact, I was reading some reviews about the Vet 30 at another forum and a couple of people decribed it as having a cloud over it.
> 
> I've had a couple of different WGS speakers and they sounded great, but this one didn't do it for me. It's supposed to be a smoother version of a Vintage 30 but I think they got it too smooth to have any cut.



I have a Vet 30 in mine and I think it sounds great. Not sure what anyone means by it doesn't have any cut. It cuts through a live mix incredibly well.


----------



## mickeydg5

First I will say that all brand name speakers use specific recipes for speaker build. I really do not find that any so called "clones" exactly immulate the speaker it supposedly modeled or copied. They should just give speakers their own identity and let the consumer judge and spread word.

A Veteran 30 sounds nothing like a Vintage 30 and neither does it sound like a Marshall Vintage except in that they all convert and produce similar frequencies.

Some may like WGS speakers like the Veteran 30. Some call them "warm" or "smooth". I personally find this speaker lacking. What some call warm and smooth I call muffled. It has far less chime and higher frequency detail.

I like speakers that shine throughout the full range guitar frequency spectrum as much as possible. I have tone controls and equalizers that can contour those frequencies. A user cannot contour something he does not have or rather produce.

The Vintage 30 and Eminence Governor dominate in this video, my opinion. I would not even consider the Tayden Brit to be a guitar speaker.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bASe70HCc4k"]Celestion Vintage 30 vs WGS Veteran 30 vs Eminence Governor vs Tayden Brit 60 - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## dave999z

i put a WGS Invader in mine. really like it.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

mickeydg5 said:


> First I will say that all brand name speakers use specific recipes for speaker build. I really do not find that any so called "clones" exactly immulate the speaker it supposedly modeled or copied. They should just give speakers their own identity and let the consumer judge and spread word.
> 
> A Veteran 30 sounds nothing like a Vintage 30 and neither does it sound like a Marshall Vintage except in that they all convert and produce similar frequencies.
> 
> Some may like WGS speakers like the Veteran 30. Some call them "warm" or "smooth". I personally find this speaker lacking. What some call warm and smooth I call muffled. It has far less chime and higher frequency detail.
> 
> I like speakers that shine throughout the full range guitar frequency spectrum as much as possible. I have tone controls and equalizers that can contour those frequencies. A user cannot contour something he does not have or rather produce.
> 
> The Vintage 30 and Eminence Governor dominate in this video, my opinion. I would not even consider the Tayden Brit to be a guitar speaker.
> 
> Celestion Vintage 30 vs WGS Veteran 30 vs Eminence Governor vs Tayden Brit 60 - YouTube



I like the V30 and the Governor over the other 2


----------



## So Cal Steve

J.LaGrassa said:


> I think you would like the V-Type, I'm really surprised how good this one sounds with the DSL40.



I probably would with this amp, with its 31 oz. magnet.

If I can get rid of this Vet 30 and 2 other cheap Webers I have I might pick one up.


----------



## recto-robbie

Hey great video above, it is one of the better comparisons that I have seen.
It really makes me wonder about my choices in the past, I have A/B'd my vintage 30's and vet 30's numerous times in the past through a few different amps and I always wind up using the vet30's. To me the vet 30's seemed to sound just like the vintage 30's in all my amps except they seemed to have that broken in sound to them  right out of the box compared to my vintage 30's that were years old. 
Maybe I cant trust my ears anymore because personally after watching that video above I would have picked the vintage 30's.
Matter of fact I thought all the speakers sounded like sh!t compared directly to the vintage 30 in that video, makes me wonder why?


----------



## Duffy49

Well, after some more thought and discussing the problems with my DSL40c with the Marshall dealer (as well as a good friend of mine) about a block from our house, I decided to call Marshall and make arrangements to have my combo sent to an authorized repair shop to get evaluated and fixed.

The Marshall representative I talked with thinks that it is something relatively simple to fix and he did not dismiss the idea of replacing the amp if it turns out to be something more complicated.

This route makes more sense than taking it to a local amp repair guy and having him fix it, because he is not a Marshall warranty repair facility and I would have had to bear all of the cost.

The local Marshall dealer took the chassis out of the amp and packed it up and sent it out to the repair facility.

For those of you that are familiar with the Harrisburg, Pa., area, I requested that it be sent to "Full Custom Sound" in Lemoyne, Pa. These guys are professionals and I have had them work on amps and guitars before. They have an excellent reputation. So there it is going, or already is. I feel good about it going there. The local marshall dealer that I took it in to does not deal with Full Custom Music; instead they use a guy in State College called Engineered Sound or something like that. They are the ones that fixed my JMD 212 combo twice in a two month period and did not, in my opinion, do good work.

I am very comfortable having Full Custom Music do the work on my amp. When talking to them on the phone, they told me that they would bias the amp and check it over completely when they do the repairs. The Marshall representative told me that he would authorize them to replace the tubes at no cost to me, even though the tubes are out of the warranty now.

I'm confident that Full Custom Music will get to the bottom of the problem and fix the amp.

To be honest, as much as I am digging my Vox AC15c1 and my Peavey Delta Blues, I definitely miss the DSL40c.

I have my DSL100H head right here and it is hooked up to my Avatar vintage style two by twelve cabinet with Swamp Thangs, but I guess that I have just bonded with the 40c combo and am looking forward to having it back. I guess it's time (when I get it back) to replace the speaker and possibly do the C19 mod. I might as well have it sounding the best it can when I get it back home and start using it again as my main amp.

I don't see so much about the C19 mod in the thread these days, but I think it has been adequately shown to increase the satisfaction of many players.

I'll have to think about the speaker now. Since I have the Swamp Thangs in the cab I should get a Man-O-War, Texas Heat, or something along these lines I suppose. I dig Eminence Speakers so why not try another of their varieties that should tame the highs and strengthen the bass and mids. Of course, the Vintage 30 has also always been a great speaker.

I'm feeling very good about having this amp repaired and I'm looking forward to the mods.


----------



## mickeydg5

recto-robbie said:


> Hey great video above, it is one of the better comparisons that I have seen.
> It really makes me wonder about my choices in the past, I have A/B'd my vintage 30's and vet 30's numerous times in the past through a few different amps and I always wind up using the vet30's. To me the vet 30's seemed to sound just like the vintage 30's in all my amps except they seemed to have that broken in sound to them right out of the box compared to my vintage 30's that were years old.
> Maybe I cant trust my ears anymore because personally after watching that video above I would have picked the vintage 30's.
> Matter of fact I thought all the speakers sounded like sh!t compared directly to the vintage 30 in that video, makes me wonder why?


 I thought it was a very decent video.

Do not confuse the difference heard between the Vintage 30 and Veteran 30 to be a broken in sound. That it is not. I have never heard a Celestion Vintage type model speaker sound or exhibit that lack of higher frequency.
The Vintage 30 is 70-5000Hz with 100dB at 1 watt.
WGS does not publish frequency response nor do they show a frequency response graph. That is kind of a deal breaker to me with a major supplier unless I know there product is really good. The Veteran 30 is lower SPL being 98.74dB at 1 watt. That makes a difference in efficiency especially with higher frequencies. From what I have heard from the Veteran 30 I would place the frequency response to be more like 80-4000Hz.

That Tayden I doubt reaches much above 3000Hz.

Saying all this, a speaker with an attenuated top end may better suit a DSL40C or some other brighter styled amplifier to a lot of people.


----------



## dave999z

So, just thought I'd share, I picked a pack of these, put a couple on each preamp tube in my DSL40c, and it tamed a bit of the ice pick shrill sound (which in my case at least seems to have been just a microphonic squeal). I will note that rolling preamp tubes did not really fix the problem, but these seem to have had some effect.

Definitely worth $6 to give it a try.

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Brick-Damper-Silicone-Rings-Gasket/dp/B008IDAJHU/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1412916166&sr=8-2&keywords=Tube+dampers]Amazon.com: 10 x Brick Red Tube Damper Silicone O Rings Seal Gasket 12 x 19x 3.5mm: Home Improvement[/ame]


----------



## Duffy49

dave999z said:


> So, just thought I'd share, I picked a pack of these, put a couple on each preamp tube in my DSL40c, and it tamed a bit of the ice pick shrill sound (which in my case at least seems to have been just a microphonic squeal). I will note that rolling preamp tubes did not really fix the problem, but these seem to have had some effect.
> 
> Definitely worth $6 to give it a try.
> 
> Amazon.com: 10 x Brick Red Tube Damper Silicone O Rings Seal Gasket 12 x 19x 3.5mm: Home Improvement




Possibly consider trying an Eminence "Swamp Thang" speaker. I have two in my Avatar vintage style cab and "zero" ice pickiness - just really full detailed sound across the spectrum. I am very impressed with these remarkable speakers.

Good luck.


----------



## Micky

Another method to dame the ice-pickyness is possibly use a different set of final power output tubes. Something like JJ's are a bit 'darker' and if not as shrill may make a noticeable difference.

I know my TAD EL34b-STR's are a very accurate final set, they reproduce the full tonal range without any colorization of the tone in comparison to other tubes. JJ's seem to have a 'fat bottom' which to many may mean more bass.

Possibly just as expensive as a speaker swap, but well worth it if you can get another set to try or have as a backup.


----------



## Duffy49

Micky said:


> Another method to dame the ice-pickyness is possibly use a different set of final power output tubes. Something like JJ's are a bit 'darker' and if not as shrill may make a noticeable difference.
> 
> I know my TAD EL34b-STR's are a very accurate final set, they reproduce the full tonal range without any colorization of the tone in comparison to other tubes. JJ's seem to have a 'fat bottom' which to many may mean more bass.
> 
> Possibly just as expensive as a speaker swap, but well worth it if you can get another set to try or have as a backup.



Excellent point. I wonder what power tubes the repair dude is going to put in my 40c. Hopefully he will have an assortment to choose from, if he even thinks of experimenting. I don't know exactly how these professional dudes tend to operate. I suppose there is a lot of variance in how they go about doing things and it is possible that Marshall will be suggesting to them what to put in. Maybe this is something that I should call the repair dude about and share with him your impression of the TAD's. It is possible that the price difference could be a determining factor and the idea of using new production tubes.


----------



## Micky

Duffy49 said:


> Excellent point. I wonder what power tubes the repair dude is going to put in my 40c. Hopefully he will have an assortment to choose from, if he even thinks of experimenting. I don't know exactly how these professional dudes tend to operate. I suppose there is a lot of variance in how they go about doing things and it is possible that Marshall will be suggesting to them what to put in. Maybe this is something that I should call the repair dude about and share with him your impression of the TAD's. It is possible that the price difference could be a determining factor and the idea of using new production tubes.


If it were me working on your amp, I would give you 2 choices for finals, and make you pay for each unless it was covered under warranty. JJ's are about $16 each, TAD's are about $25, others may be more or less, depending. NOS tubes will be MUCH more, so you really need to choose carefully. Read all you can from REPUTABLE reviews and from other users you trust.

It is definitely worth a call after your amp arrives at the shop, not only to see if it got there OK, but to ask what tubes they plan on installing. You can then chat about what your experience was and if they have any suggestions.

Glad you decided to send it to an authorized repair center, the 5-year warranty on parts and 3-year warranty that covers labor is one of the better selling points of this series of amps. Please keep us all posted with whatever happens, it is important for others to see that the warranty is there for a reason, and good things usually come to those who are informed.


----------



## frankyfal

I decided to try a preamp tube change. I play mostly southern, classic rock and country. Did the c-19 clip and have a cream back spk. 
TAD 7025wa in V1, 
JJ 5751 V2, (for less gain), 
JJ ecc803s V3
JJ ecc83 V4

Any suggestions or improvements?


----------



## Micky

frankyfal said:


> I decided to try a preamp tube change. I play mostly southern, classic rock and country. Did the c-19 clip and have a cream back spk.
> TAD 7025wa in V1,
> JJ 5751 V2, (for less gain),
> JJ ecc803s V3
> JJ ecc83 V4
> 
> Any suggestions or improvements?



Let us know how you like it!


----------



## kingbee

Anyone try a Scumback J75-LD?


----------



## MarshallDog

kingbee said:


> Anyone try a Scumback J75-LD?



N0, and I would never try a Scumback. If you ever decide to sell it, you will take it in the butt hole:eek2:, I have had several and you can't give them away. I would stay with brand names, just my opinion.


----------



## Igtar_Pro

Can someone helpme whit this?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcr-ekNkpic]Amplifier crashdowm - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Micky

Igtar_Pro said:


> Can someone helpme whit this?
> 
> Amplifier crashdowm - YouTube



Have you replaced the tubes yet?


----------



## Igtar_Pro

No, but the amplifier doesn't have much use. Do you think that it's a tube failure? Can't it be another component like a capacitor or something else?.


----------



## Micky

Igtar_Pro said:


> No, but the amplifier doesn't have much use. Do you think that it's a tube failure? Can't it be another component like a capacitor or something else?.



It could be many things. It may even be a combination of a couple things. You need to start troubleshooting somewhere though. You have eliminated the guitar already, have you tried different cables? (I know, stupid question...)

But it sounds like a faulty tube to me...


----------



## Igtar_Pro

You are right, thanks for your answer. 

Is it complicated or dangerous try a tube replacement?


----------



## Micky

Preamp tubes are easy and require no adjustment.
Make sure the amp is off and the tubes are cool to the touch.
V1 is the tube with the grommet on it.
Replace them one at a time and see if it makes a difference.

Power tubes (larger ones) require adjusting the bias.
This is accomplished by measuring the millivolts at a certain test point.
Then you adjust a small potentiometer on the PC board to a specific value.
The procedure is described on the very first page of this thread.

There are lethal voltages inside the amplifier.
If you are unfamiliar or uncomfortable working inside an amplifier then take it to a tech.
Preamp tubes are easily changed without removing the chassis of the amp. 
Power tubes generally require setting the bias, which requires removing the chassis.
Please be careful, and good luck I hope you find the problem.
If you cant find the problem, there is a 5/3 year warranty on the amp. Use it.


----------



## Igtar_Pro

Micky said:


> Preamp tubes are easy and require no adjustment.
> Make sure the amp is off and the tubes are cool to the touch.
> V1 is the tube with the grommet on it.
> Replace them one at a time and see if it makes a difference.
> 
> Power tubes (larger ones) require adjusting the bias.
> This is accomplished by measuring the millivolts at a certain test point.
> Then you adjust a small potentiometer on the PC board to a specific value.
> The procedure is described on the very first page of this thread.
> 
> There are lethal voltages inside the amplifier.
> If you are unfamiliar or uncomfortable working inside an amplifier then take it to a tech.
> Preamp tubes are easily changed without removing the chassis of the amp.
> Power tubes generally require setting the bias, which requires removing the chassis.
> Please be careful, and good luck I hope you find the problem.
> If you cant find the problem, there is a 5/3 year warranty on the amp. Use it.



thanks for the answer, it must be a valve, days ago there was a noise, like a valvle vibrating, or some like if a particle were hitting the glass of the valve, it can be related.


----------



## recto-robbie

Duffy49 said:


> Possibly consider trying an Eminence "Swamp Thang" speaker. I have two in my Avatar vintage style cab and "zero" ice pickiness - just really full detailed sound across the spectrum. I am very impressed with these remarkable speakers.
> 
> Good luck.



Have you tried these swamp thangs in the combo yet???


----------



## Micky

recto-robbie said:


> Have you tried these swamp thangs in the combo yet???



I ran a Swamp Thang in mine for a while.
I replaced it with a Man-O-War.

I have a 4X12 loaded with Swamp Thangs, talk about thump!


----------



## recto-robbie

Micky said:


> I ran a Swamp Thang in mine for a while.
> I replaced it with a Man-O-War.
> 
> I have a 4X12 loaded with Swamp Thangs, talk about thump!




So Micky, what was it that you didn't like about the swap thang?? What is it that you like better about the man-o-war? Can you compare either of these two to the g12m-65 creamback?? 
Im only talking about being used in the combo itself,, thanks Micky


----------



## Micky

I wanted to use an external 16-ohm cab with the combo, and my ST was only 8-ohm.
It is not that I didn't like it, because I did. A lot.

I was still experimenting with the C19 mod, and I ended up just lowering its value a bit (200pf) and this in combination with the MOW was the perfect combination for me and the guitars I use.

Be warned, the ST is a heavy speaker... Bigass magnets make already heavy combos even more so. I had to put casters on my 4X12... But I have a feeling you will like it a lot. I know I did.


----------



## Duffy49

Micky said:


> If it were me working on your amp, I would give you 2 choices for finals, and make you pay for each unless it was covered under warranty. JJ's are about $16 each, TAD's are about $25, others may be more or less, depending. NOS tubes will be MUCH more, so you really need to choose carefully. Read all you can from REPUTABLE reviews and from other users you trust.
> 
> It is definitely worth a call after your amp arrives at the shop, not only to see if it got there OK, but to ask what tubes they plan on installing. You can then chat about what your experience was and if they have any suggestions.
> 
> Glad you decided to send it to an authorized repair center, the 5-year warranty on parts and 3-year warranty that covers labor is one of the better selling points of this series of amps. Please keep us all posted with whatever happens, it is important for others to see that the warranty is there for a reason, and good things usually come to those who are informed.




I highly respect the ideas of many on this forum. It is definitely a great repository of information on our amps.

What speaker do you think would be great in this amp; in light of the fact that I have two Swamp Thangs in my external cabinet?

I think I will give them a call. They are very busy and they are very focused on their work. I can talk about specific concerns, but they don't like to carry on with excessive BS. They definitely know a lot about tubes, but if Marshall is offering them free of charge, I may not have much room to further push the issue. What do you think? I don't want to seem like I want to take a yard when they offered me an inch.


----------



## recto-robbie

Igtar_Pro said:


> You are right, thanks for your answer.
> 
> Is it complicated or dangerous try a tube replacement?





Hey Igtar Pro, just as Mickey stated above, he is giving you excellent info here, I have read enough of his responses here to write a book but all have been helpful, he knows his stuff.

I also think its a pre amp tube, hopefully you have a few extras lying around, if so this could all be figured out in short order. 

There is nothing complicated about swapping tubes out, just push and pull them out easily, look at the tube pins or center guide on the larger power tubes, they all have to match their respective hole going back in, don't force anything. Just swap the small preamp tubes first, you need to do this one by one, most likely you will find your problem there,,, once you do a couple you'll be a pro. good luck 
heck if your like me at all, once I did this I wound up fascinated by tube amps and find myself always messing with tubes of all sorts and enjoying rebiasing's of the amps and so on!


----------



## recto-robbie

alright guys, while were at it talking about speakers changes, I think I have finally widdled my way down to two choices here. 

I think this time around I will be going the American made route for the first time, its either going to be the Man o War or the Governor.
I can not for the life of me decide right now which it will be ,thats why Im here hoping that some of you may have compared them in your combos and can offer me your opinions.


----------



## kingbee

Don't own one. Just wondering if anyone had tried one with good results. I have a celestion v-type on the way.



MarshallDog said:


> N0, and I would never try a Scumback. If you ever decide to sell it, you will take it in the butt hole:eek2:, I have had several and you can't give them away. I would stay with brand names, just my opinion.


----------



## recto-robbie

J.LaGrassa said:


> Got the Celestion V-Type speaker today, very cool speaker for the DSL40! I think when this speaker breaks its going to output some sweet tones!
> 
> Here is a little sample fresh out out of the box using the lead1 channel!
> 
> [SC]https://soundcloud.com/j-lagrassa/dsl40c-v-type[/SC]





Hey check LaGrassa's sound clip here, he sure made it sound nice, I also have been considering the v-type.
Its hard for me to tell what a speaker sounds like unless it is compared directly to one that I own. Let us know what you think of it


----------



## kingbee

That sounds awesome! Great playing too! I think it is his that I'm waiting for.


----------



## Micky

Sorry I am late in returning to this thread, long weekend here for us and I am away on the road with the wife and dog, and convertible...

Either the MOW or the Governor will work great with the 40c, so either way you can't go wrong.

And yes preamp tubes are easy to swap. The hardest part of the whole deal is taking the back off the amp...

Thanks for the kind words about this thread. But it is not just myself that makes this thread so great, it is all of you. Each post adds a bit of info here and there, and believe me, every tidbit makes a difference. So you guys need to keep up the good work!


----------



## J.LaGrassa

kingbee said:


> That sounds awesome! Great playing too! I think it is his that I'm waiting for.



Its an awesome speaker I think you will like how it sounds in the DSL40, my amp is back to being totally stock and I still think it sounds good. I just bought an Eleven Rack digital preamp so may be heading in that direction for my rig for home use and jamming!


----------



## AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing

how bout between the creamback sweetwater is including in their exclusive model vs a v type?


----------



## J.LaGrassa

AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing said:


> how bout between the creamback sweetwater is including in their exclusive model vs a v type?



I kind of like the V-type more than the Creambacks!


----------



## MarshallDog

Anyone else:

1. Setting the the Classic Channel as a CLEAN and setting Ultra Channel to LEAD 1 so you have both clean and crunch via the footswitch?

2. Using a Jan 5751 in V1? I am and I think I like it. It takes the harshness away from the amp, makes it fuller and rounder.

Just wondering...


----------



## Micky

#1- Yes, but there are times when I use ODII instead of ODI...

#2- Have you tried the 5751 in V2? I routinely run a 12AT7 in V2 in my amps, I think it sounds better there...


----------



## MarshallDog

Micky said:


> #1- Yes, but there are times when I use ODII instead of ODI...
> 
> #2- Have you tried the 5751 in V2? I routinely run a 12AT7 in V2 in my amps, I think it sounds better there...



I may have to pick up a 12AT7...they have less gain than a 12AX7 correct? Never used one. What affect does a 12AT7 have on it?? What brand do you recommend??

Tonight I tried a JJ ECC803S in V1 and their new mid-gain ECC83 MG in the other (4) stages. Sounds pretty good and I have the Ultra Lead I sounding very close to the Classic Crunch which is what I am after...just wish this amp had a dedicated clean and crunch channel but I may have it.

Thanks....


----------



## Micky

If a 12AX7 has a gain factor of 100, then a 5751 has a gain factor of 70.
A 12AT7 has a gain factor of 60.

Personally, I have always used a hi-quality 12AX7 in V1, as you don't want to cripple the gain in this spot. The Clean and Crunch modes depend on the gain this tube starts with, as it is the input buffer and sets the 'tone' of all the following stages.

V2 is strictly a cascaded gain stage in this amp, both channels and all modes are sent thru both sides of this tube. V2 needs to be a sturdy tube, but here is where I generally experiment with a lower gain tube. A 5751 or a 12AT7 here can give more clean headroom as well as even out or 'tame' some of the gain in the Ultra channel. A 12AU7 (gain factor of 40) is crippling here, so I try to stay away from those. I have found that tone does not suffer when using a lower gain tube in V2, where things can get thin and trebley when I reduce the gain in V1.

Try it. Let us know what you think.

In general, I have always said the amp was designed with a certain gain factor in mind. To keep the tubes designed for this amp installed was paramount to great tone, but I am finding that I don't need an insane amount of gain. I DO find myself experimenting more with ODII but there is still an incredible amount of gain on tap and it is difficult to dial it in just right. My DSL5c is even harder to tame, visit the Ultimate Lo-Power Amp thread to see what we have done there...


----------



## MarshallDog

Micky said:


> If a 12AX7 has a gain factor of 100, then a 5751 has a gain factor of 70.
> A 12AT7 has a gain factor of 60.
> 
> Personally, I have always used a hi-quality 12AX7 in V1, as you don't want to cripple the gain in this spot. The Clean and Crunch modes depend on the gain this tube starts with, as it is the input buffer and sets the 'tone' of all the following stages.
> 
> V2 is strictly a cascaded gain stage in this amp, both channels and all modes are sent thru both sides of this tube. V2 needs to be a sturdy tube, but here is where I generally experiment with a lower gain tube. A 5751 or a 12AT7 here can give more clean headroom as well as even out or 'tame' some of the gain in the Ultra channel. A 12AU7 (gain factor of 40) is crippling here, so I try to stay away from those. I have found that tone does not suffer when using a lower gain tube in V2, where things can get thin and trebley when I reduce the gain in V1.
> 
> Try it. Let us know what you think.
> 
> In general, I have always said the amp was designed with a certain gain factor in mind. To keep the tubes designed for this amp installed was paramount to great tone, but I am finding that I don't need an insane amount of gain. I DO find myself experimenting more with ODII but there is still an incredible amount of gain on tap and it is difficult to dial it in just right. My DSL5c is even harder to tame, visit the Ultimate Lo-Power Amp thread to see what we have done there...



That is exactly what I found a bit was the tone gets thinner and more trebly which is what I don't want. 

Any suggestions on a nice thick rich sounding 12AT7? The Tube Store has the RFT, Jan-Philips and reissue Mullard along with several others. I would welcome your opinion on this. Thanks.


----------



## Micky

As far as a 12AT7 is concerned, I have always liked JAN-Phillips, but I hear the Mullard reissues are pretty good. Marty sent me some AT7's but I cannot recall what they are and have not had a chance to roll them. (probably Sylvania's) I should have done that when I had the amp apart this past weekend, but was testing his Telefunken tubes and didn't really have the time.

The JJ ECC81's are typical short-plates, and should work well in a pinch as backups. I have a couple, and being short-plates are very rarely microphonic. They are about $10 each I think... Also any NOS tubes you come across would probably last a lifetime. But be careful of long-plate tubes here, they can get microphonic in a combo even though they might be better tubes.


----------



## MarshallDog

Micky said:


> As far as a 12AT7 is concerned, I have always liked JAN-Phillips, but I hear the Mullard reissues are pretty good. Marty sent me some AT7's but I cannot recall what they are and have not had a chance to roll them. (probably Sylvania's) I should have done that when I had the amp apart this past weekend, but was testing his Telefunken tubes and didn't really have the time.
> 
> The JJ ECC81's are typical short-plates, and should work well in a pinch as backups. I have a couple, and being short-plates are very rarely microphonic. They are about $10 each I think... Also any NOS tubes you come across would probably last a lifetime. But be careful of long-plate tubes here, they can get microphonic in a combo even though they might be better tubes.



Thanks Budd! I think I will order up a Jan-Philips, JJ and Mullard tomorrow's eyeing as they are so cheap. I agree that today's amps seem to have way too much gain. I never thought to try a 5751 or 12AT7 in V2...I will try the 5751 in V2 tomorrow!!


----------



## mickeydg5

I do not know if this has been mentioned but the 12AY7 and 5751 will be more musical by most accounts than the 12AT7 types. That is the consensus from what I have read and heard.

Let us know what you think.


----------



## MarshallDog

mickeydg5 said:


> I do not know if this has been mentioned but the 12AY7 and 5751 will be more musical by most accounts than the 12AT7 types. That is the consensus from what I have read and heard.
> 
> Let us know what you think.



Interesting, do you happen to know the gain factor? Is it the same as a 12AT7, I don't want to go too low in gain. Thanks.

EDIT - Just found that the 12AY7 has a G.F. Of 45.


----------



## mickeydg5

5751 = 70
12at7 = 60
12ay7 = 44

Tweed Bassman, the grandfather of significant modern guitar amplifiers, used the 12AY7 at V1.


----------



## MarshallDog

mickeydg5 said:


> 5751 = 70
> 12at7 = 60
> 12ay7 = 44
> 
> Tweed Bassman, the grandfather of significant modern guitar amplifiers, used the 12AY7 at V1.



In your opinion, you like the 12AY7 in V1 versus V2??


----------



## J.LaGrassa

I've tried a JJ 5751 and 12AY7 EH in V1 and V2 and even tried a ECC81 in V4, you get some variation in gain but in the end I still like the amp with a full set of JJ ECC83S in the preamp section and JJ E34L for power tubes. Between tubes and speaker I tried I am content with all JJ's and stock 70/80 it's time to just enjoy the amp.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

MarshallDog said:


> Anyone else:
> 
> 1. Setting the the Classic Channel as a CLEAN and setting Ultra Channel to LEAD 1 so you have both clean and crunch via the footswitch?
> 
> 2. Using a Jan 5751 in V1? I am and I think I like it. It takes the harshness away from the amp, makes it fuller and rounder.
> 
> Just wondering...



I set my amp with option one, nice clean tone and super crunch tone in Lead 1 the gain is usually set around 6 on the knob seems to be my sweet spot.


----------



## frankyfal

At 4:30 AM I opened my amp up and put in 4 new preamp tubes.TAD7025wa/ V1 jj5751 /V2. jj803 lp v/3 jj 883 v4. I could not crank it, but I noticed right away that the gain was decreased and the tone was warmer - less brittle/crackly. I will crank her tonite. I only played the green channel. I still need to replace the cut c19 with a smaller 100pf cap and I am done. Like J lagrasa said, its time to just enjoy this thing.


----------



## MarshallDog

J.LaGrassa said:


> I've tried a JJ 5751 and 12AY7 EH in V1 and V2 and even tried a ECC81 in V4, you get some variation in gain but in the end I still like the amp with a full set of JJ ECC83S in the preamp section and JJ E34L for power tubes. Between tubes and speaker I tried I am content with all JJ's and stock 70/80 it's time to just enjoy the amp.



Right now I am using the ECC83S in V1 and the MG's in the rest and like it but I just want to see if I can get it even better. How knows???


----------



## mickeydg5

MarshallDog said:


> In your opinion, you like the 12AY7 in V1 versus V2??


Let me start with this. I have never tried a DSL40C nor have I swapped tubes in one. I cannot state exactly what that amplifier will do but it will be relative to other amplifiers.

Swapping the 12AY7 in an old Bassman with a 12AX7 puts it over the top. It gets louder and breaks up earlier. Marshall.

Also let me state that I like leaving the tubes in the amplifiers as designed.

The biggest difference to me besides the amplification factor of these tubes are their character. I would rather a sweet sounding or preferred voiced tube in V1 than a high output, blah or harsh sounding one.

I never run my amplifiers flat out. The rest of the amplifier will never see the full affect of V1. So if I were to have a 12AY7 or 5751 in V1 I would just turn the dials up a bit. With a 12AX7 I would turn the dials down a bit. Whatever it takes to get what I want.

I guess the point I am trying to make is that if you have a nice sounding 12AX7/ECC83 and you want a milder less aggressive tone then turn the GAIN control down and the MASTER VOLUME up some. Changing to a lower amplification preamp tube ultimately drops the gain therefore drops the signal level. Turning knobs down does basically the same.

Anyway it is always an option to try different tubes. Use the ones that give the cleanest and smoothest sounds at any level whether 12AX7, 12AY7, 12AT7 or 5751.

Remember that tubes like 12AY7, 12AT7 and 5751 (most often) should not be used in cathode follower circuit stages due to lower heater-cathode ratings.


----------



## frankyfal

I fearlessly replaced c19 with a 100pf cap this AM




Puts a bit of the brightness back and I think evens the 2 channels out.
Excuse my iPhone recording and crappy technique 
View My Video


----------



## MarshallDog

frankyfal said:


> I fearlessly replaced c19 with a 100pf cap this AM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Puts a bit of the brightness back and I think evens the 2 channels out.
> Excuse my iPhone recording and crappy technique
> View My Video



I used to have a 100 pF in there also but now I simply have no cap there and I removed C4 for the Classic Channel and both channels are almost identical in tone EXCEPT the ULTRA is like an extension of the CLASSIC and the gain continues but you can switch between them w/o hearing a total difference. These amps are plenty bright enough IMO and with these two caps removed, I can actually use the treble and presence knobs now for something other than setting them on 0 or 1...


----------



## Len

For me, C19 open is good at high volumes, and switching it to 100 pF is good for low volume playing.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

frankyfal said:


> I fearlessly replaced c19 with a 100pf cap this AM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Puts a bit of the brightness back and I think evens the 2 channels out.
> Excuse my iPhone recording and crappy technique
> View My Video




Sounds good!


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

I know V1 and 2 are the most important preamp tubes but I swapped out a bad V4 today and to my ears, this amp has never sounded better. Makes me wonder if it was bad from the factory. I have only ever swapped V1 and V2 to this point so now I may have to really look at a full scale upgrade. Thanks to everyone who posts in this thread for giving me the tools to do this myself.


----------



## Len

Say, I've read about C4 mods, but I'm still not clear on what role that cap plays in the amp's design...


----------



## MarshallDog

Len said:


> Say, I've read about C4 mods, but I'm still not clear on what role that cap plays in the amp's design...



Lowers the brightness in the clean/classic channel.


----------



## Len

MarshallDog said:


> Lowers the brightness in then crunch channel.



How's that different than C19? I assume they both can't have the exact same impact...


----------



## YetiVanMarshall

Just played my vietnamese marshall with a 25$ behringer to808 on crunch channell everyone set at noon. No other mods but a small amp stand. 
Rocked the big mirror off my wall. Wifes very happy!


----------



## MarshallDog

Len said:


> How's that different than C19? I assume they both can't have the exact same impact...



C19 is for the Ultra channels...


----------



## MarshallDog

Wow...

I just bought a Mullard NOS 12AT7WA / CV4024 tube and put it in V1 and OMG, it sounds killer. Much more Vintage but it still has way more than enough gain for me, makes this amp sound like a 1500.00 - 2000.00 dollar combo and the clean is great. 

Here is the link: www.thetubestore.com - Mullard 12AT7WA / CV4024 Audio Tubes

I am using Mullard reissue EL34's and the other pre-amp slots have the reissue Mullard 12AX7's. 

If you struggle with too much gain, thin, harsh and/or fizzy tones, this may be the tube for you.


----------



## armandodiaz

Well, I did some work to my 40c, last week. It's about 3 months old and I have always loved the clean/crunch but never liked the ultra. So....

I changed the tubes: 
... power tubes TAD, biased them to 40mv
... pre tubes: V1 V2: Muller, V3 V4: JJ

De-soldered C19 (I might add a 3-way switch later)
Replaced the speaker to a "made in UK" Creamback 65 (I'm a big "made in USA" fan, but to me anything but a Celestion in a Marshall is sacrilegious---IMHO).

The results:
The fizziness of the ultra channel is gone, so it's now usable. Before I was using the clean/crunch for rhythm and my fuzz box for lead. But now I can easily see using the ultra1 for lead. In fact the more I look at my pedal board, the more I can see removing pedals. 
However not everything is roses... the clean channel seems a bit "chimey"... 
I'm not sure if I should back down on the bias, to 38mv, or it could be the Mullards. I bought these a few years ago, when I had an Egnator Tweaker. I didn't like them much in there, they seemed too hot. I might go ahead and buy a couple of Tung or Ruby. I will try and put back the OEM tubes to try and track it down. 

Also next time I'm in there I will install the choke, I got it in the mail about 3 days after I did my modes.

Lastly: I was getting a lot of noise (almost like a bad cable). After wiggling all my cables, it turns out there is a bad connection on the plug coming from my switch box. I'm wondering if the input jack, the switch box goes into, might be stretched out. Next time I got it apart, I will try and push the connections in. If not I will plan on removing the permanent cable and install an input jack on the switch box (along with leds).


----------



## armandodiaz

Micky said:


> I have found, more times than I want to post about, that most stores will place returns back out on the floor with only minimal inspection.
> 
> The ONLY way to insure a brand-spanking new amp is to order it from MF or Sweetwater. Or WATCH the GC employee break the factory seal...


 
I ordered mine online through GC, and picked it up at the store. It came sealed.


----------



## MarshallDog

armandodiaz said:


> Well, I did some work to my 40c, last week. It's about 3 months old and I have always loved the clean/crunch but never liked the ultra. So....
> 
> I changed the tubes:
> ... power tubes TAD, biased them to 40mv
> ... pre tubes: V1 V2: Muller, V3 V4: JJ
> 
> De-soldered C19 (I might add a 3-way switch later)
> Replaced the speaker to a "made in UK" Creamback 65 (I'm a big "made in USA" fan, but to me anything but a Celestion in a Marshall is sacrilegious---IMHO).
> 
> The results:
> The fizziness of the ultra channel is gone, so it's now usable. Before I was using the clean/crunch for rhythm and my fuzz box for lead. But now I can easily see using the ultra1 for lead. In fact the more I look at my pedal board, the more I can see removing pedals.
> However not everything is roses... the clean channel seems a bit "chimey"...
> I'm not sure if I should back down on the bias, to 38mv, or it could be the Mullards. I bought these a few years ago, when I had an Egnator Tweaker. I didn't like them much in there, they seemed too hot. I might go ahead and buy a couple of Tung or Ruby. I will try and put back the OEM tubes to try and track it down.
> 
> Also next time I'm in there I will install the choke, I got it in the mail about 3 days after I did my modes.
> 
> Lastly: I was getting a lot of noise (almost like a bad cable). After wiggling all my cables, it turns out there is a bad connection on the plug coming from my switch box. I'm wondering if the input jack, the switch box goes into, might be stretched out. Next time I got it apart, I will try and push the connections in. If not I will plan on removing the permanent cable and install an input jack on the switch box (along with leds).



Congrats, I did all of these mods plus a few more a while back. I use Mullard power and pre-amp tubes also. The clean & classic channels work together so if what you mean by "chimey" is brittle, bright, thin, then you may want to try removing C4 also. I did and I love both channels even more now. Just a reco and if you don't like it you can change it back easily.


----------



## armandodiaz

"chimey" is brittle, bright, thin.....

Yes, that's exactly what I mean. Honestly, I never really liked the Mullards. I just had them on hand so I thought I would throw them in, along with the JJ's. I'm gonna put the Marshall pre on V1 to see if it fattens up again. Plus purchase 1 Tung and 1 Ruby and see which one I like better. Worst case... I'll have a few spare tube, on hand.


----------



## mickeydg5

Chimey has always been used to describe good speaker or sound quality relating to articulate well defined high frequencies.

Where does this relation to bright brittle thin come from and from what is it based?


----------



## Relegate

I feel like I'm venturing down the "tube roll rabbit hole". I put an Alnico Gold speaker in the DSL, for the hell of it. Sounds awesome. It's not a Lead channel tamer, maybe even a lamer... but it is silky, and it makes some fantastic tones and is very musical... it would cut through the mix if I ever play with a band again. 

I rolled a NOS Sylvania 5751 triple mica grey plate through the amp today, and it ended in V3. In V4 it did lose something in the amp. I know it's gain value, just want to try different things. It's Cool for now in V3, and I put a Rusky Mullard in V1. I have a JJ that I put from V1 to V2 and it worked for about, oh, 20 seconds and then cut... back in V1 and it works... so I took it out and put a stocker back in V2 (same tube, by the way, different treatment on the plate and better sound). I have an NOS Mullard on the way for V1, and the RCA black plate for V2 as well as some EH 12zx7 Golds. I think the hard thing for me is I can get an amazing sound in any combo of tubes that seems to fit one guitar in my line up... but playing the Clean as my main channel, the 5751 was not really there for me in V1, even with 2 OD's stacked and my LP. It sounded great, but just not the sound for me... It's fun to experiment! 

I ran my EH 360 Looper pedal with a clean progression into the front and it gave me a consistent track to evaluate. I try to let the tubes get nice and warm as well. Ultimately, the Mullard (NEW) in V1 sounds great on my LP and SG neck humbuckers, and the V3 5751 might have made the clean tone a little nicer and smoother on the gain. The speaker is pretty 'vocal', and it doesn't really handle massive distortion well... but with the stuff I play, it's really nice. I will probably line up a couple more combos in the tubes and then concentrate on getting the 2x12 Creamback cab from Avatar. The original tubes seem to work really well across the Strat, SG and LP... C19 100mu Friday... fun times.


----------



## Micky

The problem is, that there are too many combinations and permutations for any one given tone.
To try and expect things in your amp to sound the same or even similar with every combination of guitar or pickups is futile to attempt, so you really need to think about what is highest on the list as far as priorities is concerned.

Also the ability to use your channels is key, and if you use pedals, that makes a third channel so to speak. Finding a sweet spot with your amp is sometimes difficult, and there may even be a situation where you wanna run one set of tubes for that situation, and a different set of tubes for another. Happens to me every now and then, as I play country and bluegrass at times, and then harder classic rock at other times. Normally a person would have 2 different amps, but it truly is wonderful that you can make your Marshall sound however you wish with just a couple tweaks.

I think once you find that sweet spot you can live with, your tone-chasing days may be over, so you can concentrate on playing rather than tweaking...


----------



## armandodiaz

I think once you find that sweet spot you can live with, your tone-chasing days may be over, so you can concentrate on playing rather than tweaking... 


I think tone chasing days are never truly over. Like looking for a unicorn.


----------



## Relegate

armandodiaz said:


> I think tone chasing days are never truly over. Like looking for a unicorn.



I bought my speaker off of a guy who had about 12 different amps, all ready to plug into at any given time... I guess that's one solution. =) 

Having a mismatched lead channel is what I'm going to work on Friday based on everything I've read and heard. I love getting all of the different tones and picking up a different guitar and playing some VH, and then grabbing another, clicking a few pedals and turning a knob, and playing some dirty blues (or my interpretation of those genres).  

Definitely love this stuff... esp since the kids go to bed early.


----------



## Micky

For me, 1 of 2 things usually happens-

1- I run out of money for tubes
2- I run out of time to roll them...


----------



## J.LaGrassa

I'm just sticking with all JJ tubes I seem to be the most content with those with the stock speaker.


----------



## MarshallDog

Micky said:


> For me, 1 of 2 things usually happens-
> 
> 1- I run out of money for tubes
> 2- I run out of time to roll them...



I see you changed your avatar


----------



## MarshallDog

mickeydg5 said:


> Chimey has always been used to describe good speaker or sound quality relating to articulate well defined high frequencies.
> 
> Where does this relation to bright brittle thin come from and from what is it based?



Speaking for myself, "chimey" makes me think of wind chimes and the tone they produce. Although not a bad tone, when realting to wind chimes, but they seem to be of higher freq, no base and if loud enough or close enough a bit ear piercing, but that's just me.


----------



## armandodiaz

MarshallDog said:


> Speaking for myself, "chimey" makes me think of wind chimes and the tone they produce. Although not a bad tone, when realting to wind chimes, but they seem to be of higher freq, no base and if loud enough or close enough a bit ear piercing, but that's just me.



Thank you, that's exactly what I meant.


----------



## Micky

MarshallDog said:


> I see you changed your avatar



My Dad's middle name was Walter, it is in part homage to him.
Walter White worked in a school...


----------



## mickeydg5

MarshallDog said:


> Speaking for myself, "chimey" makes me think of wind chimes and the tone they produce. Although not a bad tone, when realting to wind chimes, but they seem to be of higher freq, no base and if loud enough or close enough a bit ear piercing, but that's just me.


That I can understand but not brittle and thin.

Pronounced maybe loud, clean and articulate chiming.

Unless you have cheap wind chimes from Wally Market or something like that.


----------



## Pumpkin88

Going on almost two years, stock tubes, speaker ect. Still see no reason to upgrade. I run pedals into the clean channel for distortion and for whatever reason it works. Overall great balance of sound, this amp kicks ass.


----------



## lordquilton

Pumpkin88 said:


> Going on almost two years, stock tubes, speaker ect. Still see no reason to upgrade. I run pedals into the clean channel for distortion and for whatever reason it works. Overall great balance of sound, this amp kicks ass.



I've upgraded the preamp tubes and the speaker. Just for fun I recently took it all back to stock. Ain't nothin' wrong with it huh? 

I still prefer my modified version, but if for some bizarre reason I could only ever play through a stock DSL 40C, it would not bother me much at all.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

lordquilton said:


> I've upgraded the preamp tubes and the speaker. Just for fun I recently took it all back to stock. Ain't nothin' wrong with it huh?
> 
> I still prefer my modified version, but if for some bizarre reason I could only ever play through a stock DSL 40C, it would not bother me much at all.




I agree I could play that amp completely stock and still be satisfied, only change in my amp at this time is 4 JJ ECC83S and a pair of JJ E34L power tubes. I've tried a few speakers and all were good but for now I am fine with the stock 70/80, broken in it sounds fine with the amp. I'm just enjoying the amp for what it is now no need for anymore changes!


----------



## lordquilton

+1 on breaking in Seventy/80 for sure.


----------



## MarshallDog

Micky said:


> My Dad's middle name was Walter, it is in part homage to him.
> Walter White worked in a school...



It was a great masterful series....


----------



## dylumph

I played a Halloween party last night in a huge garage, kinda club size place. I played the whole night on my 02 LP standard through my DSL40C-ST. Besides the Creamback, I put JJs in every slot eccept V2 where I put a old Mullard 12at7. For the first time in MANY years, I didn't use my OCD at all. My gain on the redlight channel stayed @ 10 o'clock all night. The green channel (crunch) stayed @ 9 o'clock. I used the volumes as the crowd got bigger and guitar pots for fine tuning. I am so pleased with this amp!


----------



## armandodiaz

batmanrb89 said:


> Just sharing info on a simple mod I did to my DSL40C.....
> 
> TUBE RATTLE.
> 
> Noticed a slight ringing sound on certain low notes with bass emphasis. I picked up a variety set of o rings from Harbor Freight for $7.99 USD. Placed two on each preamp tube and two on each power tube. PROBLEM SOLVED. Much cheaper than TUBE Specific Dampers. I'm sure I don't need that many on all off the tubes, but the ringing is gone. When I have more time, I will test each tube with the rings to narrow it down. But the V1 tube does come with a Marshall Provided black rubber/Silicon Gasket on it. Hope this info helps anyone having this problem.



I'm doing the same. Read somewhere that it's not recommended for the power tubes. However, I don't remember why.


----------



## frankyfal

dylumph said:


> I played a Halloween party last night in a huge garage, kinda club size place. I played the whole night on my 02 LP standard through my DSL40C-ST. Besides the Creamback, I put JJs in every slot eccept V2 where I put a old Mullard 12at7. For the first time in MANY years, I didn't use my OCD at all. My gain on the redlight channel stayed @ 10 o'clock all night. The green channel (crunch) stayed @ 9 o'clock. I used the volumes as the crowd got bigger and guitar pots for fine tuning. I am so pleased with this amp!



I use the same gain settings, same spkr, jj tubes, les paul 93 st. Red ch for solo's green for everything else. The thing rocks once you raise the volume.


----------



## armandodiaz

Holy Crap!!! I can't believe I went through 92 pages of threads. Only took about a month. Maybe now I can get back to work.


----------



## Igtar_Pro

hi guys

has anyone tried this valves?

Mesa 12AX7 - $17.49 : TRD Parts OnLine, a division of Thermal Relief Design, Inc.


----------



## Micky

armandodiaz said:


> Holy Crap!!! I can't believe I went through 92 pages of threads. Only took about a month. Maybe now I can get back to work.



Thank you!


----------



## mickeydg5

armandodiaz said:


> Holy Crap!!! I can't believe I went through 92 pages of threads. Only took about a month. Maybe now I can get back to work.


 Was it worth it?


----------



## GlennB

I've had my DSL40 for a few months now and finally got around to checking the tube bias. The reasons for even bothering to check were:
1. I believe the sound coming from the speaker is too harsh, even at low volumes on the crunch/clean channel. Sounds like its a tiny speaker being driven way too hard when it is only being driven lightly. Vol 3, Gain 4 etc.
2. Curiosity
I'm in Australia using 240VAC line voltage.
I used 2 different meters to confirm everything. Both reasonable quality.

The initial readings were:
Plate voltage, measured at the brown wire on the Tri/Pent switch = 495VDC. Higher than most I've read about.
Tube bias at CON5 = 47.2mV & 43.2mV. Quite high and uneven.
Using Disipation/Plate Voltage gives 25/495= 50mA. Mine were as high as 47mV meaning near 100% duty.
I adjusted the trimmers to achieve 35.5mV on each. I then rechecked the Plate voltage and found it to be 503VDC. Rechecked the bias and was still at 35.5mV.
25/503= 49mA. x 70%= 35mA. Sweet.
The speaker no longer sounds rubbish, in fact I like it a lot now. The whole amp feels tamer and responds more smoothly to knob adjustments now. 
I took plenty of photos but nothing that hasnt been posted by others previously.
So glad I found this forum and all the folks that have the passion to pass on information to nubes like me. Thanks guys.


----------



## mickeydg5

Hello GlennB
35mA or 36mA seems just about right for your amplifier.


----------



## GlennB

Seems to be the case mate. The lesson I learnt here was to always check your plate voltage before making any adjustments. The whole equation relies on accurate information, not using average results from other guys amps. To be honest, it probably doesnt matter too much but if you have the resources to make a few measurements first then go ahead and do it. I could have just set mine to 38mV and closed it back up. It would have been high but probably manageable. Checking the plate voltage takes an extra 10 seconds. Thats the time to turn the dial on the multimeter to Volts, take the reading and then turn it back to Millivolts for the bias reading. Some multimeters only measure DC to 400V so using 470V in the equation is probably OK here.


----------



## mickeydg5

Correct Mate. You do not have to tell me that stuff. Everyone should always know what the plate voltage is in relation to idle bias current.
I would not adjust for much more than 37mA at 503VDC plate.


----------



## armandodiaz

mickeydg5 said:


> Was it worth it?



Absolutely! I learned so much here. Thanks to everyone.


----------



## Micky

35-37ma seems to be the sweet spot for this amp, and you are correct, it is very dependent on plate or B+ voltage. Over 38 you start to lose clean headroom, and things get harsh and gainy. For some though, the higher bias with the right speaker as well as guitar and pickups, is the perfect match for their style and genre of music.

Personally for me, lower bias seems to bring out the clean brilliance that matches my speaker.


----------



## solarburn

I recently biased mine around 33mv and get a cleaner crunch if you will. It's more vintage in feel or Plexi like with added "twang". The con of this bias range is running into a more strident, brittle or colder tone and stiffer response. The neck pup gets a more funky twang to it.lol I'm using Dimarzio SD's and still the stock speaker. Plus I tailor the EQ a bit with my 10 band. The mids and lows but it's minimal. 

Normally I run mine where Micky states the sweet spot is regarding bias as far as wanting the warmth and response I prefer at volume.


----------



## GlennB

I was just going over my notes and found it interesting that my calculation:
Tube Dissipation / Plate Voltage (25/503=49mA) agrees with what is written on the output tubes.
Seems you dont need to measure the plate voltage..... maybe. Using: 25/.049=510 is pretty darn close to what I measured.
Not sure what the 13 / 38 is about though  DOM code?


----------



## Micky

GlennB said:


> I was just going over my notes and found it interesting that my calculation:
> Tube Dissipation / Plate Voltage (25/503=49mA) agrees with what is written on the output tubes.
> Seems you dont need to measure the plate voltage..... maybe. Using: 25/.049=510 is pretty darn close to what I measured.
> Not sure what the 13 / 38 is about though  DOM code?


Have you actually measured the B+ voltage? It should be more in the 450-460 VDC range...


----------



## GlennB

_Have you actually measured the B+ voltage? It should be more in the 450-460 VDC range..._

Indeed sir.
In my initial post on the subject I said:
"_The initial readings were:
Plate voltage, measured at the brown wire on the Tri/Pent switch = 495VDC._"
This wandered up to 503VDC over time.
It just so happens I took a quick picky of it at the time.





Here's my probe hand on the brown wire.





I used a second meter to check all readings. The second meter indicated a voltage approx 2 volts lower.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

I like my bias set around 37-38mA with the JJ E34L the amp reacts nicely with that setting, stock EL34 i would set to 36mA. When I first got the amp and checked the bias it was at 29mA... little to cold for my liking.


----------



## Micky

Yes, I read, and re-read your post.
It is just that over 500 is kinda high... I will bet you are on 240VAC line voltage.

And yes you are correct - EVERYONE who biases an amp needs to check the B+ to calculate the correct bias current range.

Marty or MickeyDG can answer about the tube markings on the label...


----------



## GlennB

Micky said:


> Yes, I read, and re-read your post.
> It is just that over 500 is kinda high... I will bet you are on 240VAC line voltage.
> 
> And yes you are correct - EVERYONE who biases an amp needs to check the B+ to calculate the correct bias current range.
> 
> Marty or MickeyDG can answer about the tube markings on the label...



Yep. 240VAC here. Usually more like 245-250V. 
Just so happened to take a shot of the tranny too.


----------



## Micky

That explains it. Running a 230V xfmr at 250V is about 10% higher than normal.
That should relate to higher B+ voltages, and affect everything down the line.

The good thing is that you can get it set to a spot where you like it!
Good job!


----------



## mickeydg5

GlennB said:


> I was just going over my notes and found it interesting that my calculation:
> Tube Dissipation / Plate Voltage (25/503=49mA) agrees with what is written on the output tubes.
> Seems you dont need to measure the plate voltage..... maybe. Using: 25/.049=510 is pretty darn close to what I measured.
> Not sure what the 13 / 38 is about though  DOM code?


Those numbers on the tags of those tubes have nothing to do with your amplifier.
It just indicates that they matched on the tube tester. The scores and data were written down on each for record.
You would have to know which tube tester was used to decipher the numbers.


----------



## rpinon69

Hello

If this question has been posted before my apologies.

Has anyone tried the 12AX7 tone kit from Dougs Tubes and what are your opinions?

Thanks


----------



## gadgetfreak

These so called tone-kits aren't anything but just high gain good quality 12ax7's. You could do the same thing and purchase a bunch of different 12ax7's and experiment.

Maybe people who own Marshall's bought some tubes and left a positive review so Doug being a smart business guy used it to make a kit. They have them on all different tube sites with all different tubes in different orders to start and finish. Imo use your own ears and just roll those tubes from position to position.

Only the first couple are real tone changers I believe anyway, V1 and V2. So as long as you put a nice strong non microphonic tube there you should be on your way..

I used to own a Mesa and was buying lot's of pre-amp tubes from Doug and told him how good they made the amp sound, well now they talk about Doug's Famous tube cocktail on the Mesa forum for the 5:50 express amp, it's kind of funny how the internet works. I think if you like your tone go for it, but there is no tone kit or magic cocktail that is going to bring you this holy grail tone. I know you didn't state that but I'm just letting you know my 2 cents. Good luck


----------



## rpinon69

gadgetfreak said:


> These so called tone-kits aren't anything but just high gain good quality 12ax7's. You could do the same thing and purchase a bunch of different 12ax7's and experiment.
> 
> Maybe people who own Marshall's bought some tubes and left a positive review so Doug being a smart business guy used it to make a kit. They have them on all different tube sites with all different tubes in different orders to start and finish. Imo use your own ears and just roll those tubes from position to position.
> 
> Only the first couple are real tone changers I believe anyway, V1 and V2. So as long as you put a nice strong non microphonic tube there you should be on your way..
> 
> I used to own a Mesa and was buying lot's of pre-amp tubes from Doug and told him how good they made the amp sound, well now they talk about Doug's Famous tube cocktail on the Mesa forum for the 5:50 express amp, it's kind of funny how the internet works. I think if you like your tone go for it, but there is no tone kit or magic cocktail that is going to bring you this holy grail tone. I know you didn't state that but I'm just letting you know my 2 cents. Good luck



Thanks! I did ask for opinions so that it s exactly type of response I was looking for. Anyone else?


----------



## lobobob

Okay...New DSL40c owner here! I've replaced the preamp tubes with JJ's, installed a V30 speaker and clipped c19. The amp sounds awesome! But have I just voided my new amp warranty?


----------



## Micky

rpinon69 said:


> Hello
> 
> If this question has been posted before my apologies.
> 
> Has anyone tried the 12AX7 tone kit from Dougs Tubes and what are your opinions?
> 
> Thanks



Have not tried them, but they are just a good set of tubes, chosen by someone else. You can do the same thing, possibly for less, but it is a good alternative for those who do not know much about tubes.


----------



## Micky

lobobob said:


> Okay...New DSL40c owner here! I've replaced the preamp tubes with JJ's, installed a V30 speaker and clipped c19. The amp sounds awesome! But have I just voided my new amp warranty?



Not necessarily. The mods you have performed are reversible, if you needed to put it back to stock. I don't think you have done anything that would damage other components. You MAY be fine...

And welcome! Many new members formally introduce themselves in the Member Introductions section where they tell a little about themselves and such. Glad to have you here!


----------



## lobobob

Thanks Micky! This forum convinced me to pull the trigger on the DSL40c combo. It's exactly the tone I've been chasing with various pedals for the last 20 years! I was pleasantly surprised how quiet it was (low hum) compared to my little fender pro Jr. I wasn't sure how most Marshall service centers deal with repairing an amp that has been obviously opened and had some components swapped out. I guess I was mostly concerned with the c19 cap removed.


----------



## frankyfal

Micky said:


> I wouldn't use a 50V, if anything I would use the 500 if I couldn't get the proper rating.


Utoh! I used a 100pfd 50v. What can happen?


----------



## Micky

frankyfal said:


> Utoh! I used a 100pfd 50v. What can happen?



What cap is this in reference to?

(now we all are gonna DIE!)


----------



## GlennB

My first post to this forum a few months back was an question regarding running a marshall 1922 ext cab ( 2 x 16ohm) in conjunction with the dsl40 internal speaker (16ohm). Micky correctly explained how this wouldn't work due to impedance mismatch etc. I was still determined to try it out so i made up a small box that I could plug all the speakers into and create a wiring solution that would match the 8 or 16 ohm output of the amp. I wired the 2 x 16 cab in series for 32 ohms (actual dc resistance was 26ohms). I wired this set to the 1 x 16 internal speaker (actual dc resistance 11 ohms) in parallel. This would give a theoretical impedance of 10.6ohms. Which is close to the dc resistance of a 16 ohm speaker. The actual dc resistance was 8 ohms. Long story short, i tried it in the 8 ohm amp output and the 16. It didnt sound as good as i hoped. The cab without the internal speaker sounds much better. Maybe it would have sounded better cranked right up but I'm not in a position to do that. Oh well.


----------



## Micky

Generally the cab will almost always sound better by itself over a semi-open back combo speaker.
For my setup, my cab is too bassy, and the semi-open back combo speaker adds brightness and together they sound pretty good.

Glad you figured out the ohms/impedance and matched things properly!


----------



## mickeydg5

GlennB said:


> My first post to this forum a few months back was an question regarding running a marshall 1922 ext cab ( 2 x 16ohm) in conjunction with the dsl40 internal speaker (16ohm). Micky correctly explained how this wouldn't work due to impedance mismatch etc. I was still determined to try it out so i made up a small box that I could plug all the speakers into and create a wiring solution that would match the 8 or 16 ohm output of the amp. I wired the 2 x 16 cab in series for 32 ohms (actual dc resistance was 26ohms). I wired this set to the 1 x 16 internal speaker (actual dc resistance 11 ohms) in parallel. This would give a theoretical impedance of 10.6ohms. Which is close to the dc resistance of a 16 ohm speaker. The actual dc resistance was 8 ohms. Long story short, i tried it in the 8 ohm amp output and the 16. It didnt sound as good as i hoped. The cab without the internal speaker sounds much better. Maybe it would have sounded better cranked right up but I'm not in a position to do that. Oh well.


Have you tried to just use the combo internal speaker in conjunction with the 1922 cabinet right input for a single 12" at 16 ohms? That would provide the amplifier output with the proper 8 ohm total output impedance.

Either that or just use the 1922 cabinet by itself in mono 8 ohm operation.


----------



## frankyfal

Micky said:


> What cap is this in reference to?
> 
> (now we all are gonna DIE!)


c-19


----------



## Micky

frankyfal said:


> c-19



50V is fine.
Where did you take my other quote from? (post number?)


----------



## frankyfal

Micky said:


> 50V is fine.
> Where did you take my other quote from? (post number?)




 746


----------



## Micky

100V is what is called for.

I guess the world will implode and we will all have to ride the black hole frank is gonna cause because he used an under-rated cap in his amp...

Oh well. goodbye cruel world.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8m4zsZnKlM]Roger Waters - Goodbye Cruel World [Live in Berlin] - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## frankyfal

Micky said:


> 100V is what is called for.
> 
> I guess the world will implode and we will all have to ride the black hole frank is gonna cause because he used an under-rated cap in his amp...
> 
> Oh well. goodbye cruel world.
> 
> Roger Waters - Goodbye Cruel World [Live in Berlin] - YouTube



Any reason for me to upgrade to a half stack Mickey


----------



## rpinon69

Micky said:


> Have not tried them, but they are just a good set of tubes, chosen by someone else. You can do the same thing, possibly for less, but it is a good alternative for those who do not know much about tubes.



Thanks! I will check around see what I can find.


----------



## Duffy49

I'm not really sure what to make of this, but I talked to the guy at Full Custom Music in Lemoyne, Pa., today and he told me my DSL40c has been repaired and is being shipped back to me.

He said that the stock power tubes were really shot as well as one preamp tube, just happening to be the "new" JJ I put in that I bought at a store near me. I'll order spare tubes from now on from reputable tube stores, etc.

He said that Marshall authorized new power tubes and sent him a set of the stock Marshall ones. He said that they should be fine. He rebiased it. He said everything else looked good, no other problems.

So, it is going to be in stock form when I get it back. I was hoping for a tube upgrade, but these stock tubes were at no cost to me, so even though I didn't get upgraded tubes, I should be grateful I suppose.

I haven't had anything to complain about with the amp for the last year, except for the service work that needed to be done to correct the problem of almost zero output from the speakers, and the radio signal reception.

Hopefully the radio signal reception will have been also addressed with the tube replacements.

I'm looking forward to getting the amp back and will immediately put it into use, daily, here in my den.

I must admit that I have become quite fond of my AC15c1 that I have been playing for approx. the last month while the amp was being fixed. I have never enjoyed the AC15 as much, nor have I ever tuned it in like I have now, with the top boost channel adjusted just into the edge of natural breakup. The amp sounds super nice and I will keep it right by the DSL40c so I can use it as well, just by reaching over.

I will probably be getting the amp back in the next few days and I'll let you know what I think and if it sounds any different than it did before. It sounded great before it suddenly started to output at almost zero volume. Maybe it will sound noticeably better now. I'm not sure my memory will be precise in recollecting exactly how it sounded before.

I read somewhere that your ear can only discern fine differences in an amps sound, if you compare the two sounds within seconds of each other. Otherwise other psychological and memory factors can come very quickly into play that make comparing two very close sounds essentially impossible. I'm not sure how accurate this is, but when I compare two amps I try to unplug and plug into the second one as quickly as possible and start playing the same things, in order to minimize the perceptival fade accompanied by delayed comparisons. I have noticed that this strategy of being quick to compare the two amps is helpful for me to do so when the sound of the first amp is still very fresh in my head.

Anyway, I'll let you all know what I think when I get the amp back. I'm definitely excited and I really dig the DSL40c.


----------



## GlennB

mickeydg5 said:


> Have you tried to just use the combo internal speaker in conjunction with the 1922 cabinet right input for a single 12" at 16 ohms? That would provide the amplifier output with the proper 8 ohm total output impedance.
> 
> Either that or just use the 1922 cabinet by itself in mono 8 ohm operation.



Yes. Micky suggested the first scenario and it sounded OK. The non-connected speaker acts as a passive radiator apparently. My guess is I would need to crank it up for that to happen.
I use the the 1922 by itself at the moment. It sounds nice for my style and taste. Seperate cables from each of the amps 8ohm outputs to right and left inputs on the cab. The internal speaker unplugged.
Thinking of changing out the internal speaker for a creamback but low priority right now


----------



## mickeydg5

GlennB said:


> Yes. Micky suggested the first scenario and it sounded OK. The non-connected speaker acts as a passive radiator apparently. My guess is I would need to crank it up for that to happen.
> I use the the 1922 by itself at the moment. It sounds nice for my style and taste. Seperate cables from each of the amps 8ohm outputs to right and left inputs on the cab. The internal speaker unplugged.
> Thinking of changing out the internal speaker for a creamback but low priority right now


 Well that would be best for output transformer impedance matching.
That other scenario of 10.67 ohms impedance does not match well.


----------



## USAPatriot

lobobob said:


> Okay...New DSL40c owner here! I've replaced the preamp tubes with JJ's, installed a V30 speaker and clipped c19. The amp sounds awesome! But have I just voided my new amp warranty?



One could argue that Marshall intended for C-19 to be clipped. Photos of C-19 at or near the beginning of the thread show a typical capacitor with 2 equal legs, standing straight up. For awhile now the amps have been coming out with C-19 and C-20 having one relatively long leg visible, an obvious lean, and that leg is easily accessible with a pair of diagonals.

Whether or not clipping C-19 or 20 voids the warranty is a question that only Marshall can answer, but there's no question that they recognized the need and facilitated the mod...made it easier to accomplish. It's just a frequency filter and no reason I can think of that it'd damage anything but your hearing lol.

Hullo everyone! -Rod-


----------



## Micky

Where you been Rod? Missed ya...


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> Where you been Rod? Missed ya...



Yeah, sorry, Micky. I've missed you guys too, and the great conversation and learning to be had here. My father in law had one leg amputated and I've been driving him to and from the hospital daily for hyperbaric treatments, getting him to doctor appointments 2-3 times every week plus trying to keep up with things at the house. Just been busy is all...but, I've been able to play pretty much every night since my last post some weeks ago, so that's a good thing. I can't say that I'm at the top of the my game though. I'm tired, my mind and fingers wander and half the time I just sound like shit  but I'm having a good time and trying new things. I've still got the whatchamacallit pegged along with my volume so I'm getting the most out of my amp without going deaf or the cops showing up. It's hard to get any feedback going like that though and I don't want to put my GT-10 in the chain to artificially put in some half-assed feedback, so just living without it. Sometimes I can get a little resonance going at the right frequency which is fun to play with, little as it is.
I'll try to catch up on the last month's worth of postings in the thread this weekend since there's nothing going on.

Thanks for asking  I hope all is well with everyone! -Rod-


----------



## Micky

Stay strong brother! Good karma comes to the deserving.
Bunch of new owners here and that is just fantastic.
A few new guitars here and there and the same old members feeling butthurt.

I guess that is same old, same old...
Hope you had a chance to vote.
And don't worry, we will leave the light on for ya!


----------



## Duffy49

UPS delivered my DSL40c back to the Marshall dealer a block or so from me, from undergoing warranty repair at Full Custom Music in Lemoyne, Pa., today.

While at the store I had one of the dudes that works there test out the amp for me using a 2014 Gibson LP Studio with covered pickups (not sure which pickup set). He is a good player and is in a very active gigging band.

It was fun to listen to someone else play my amp. The amp sounded great as he put it thru its paces. His playing was interesting as well.

So, the amp sounds great.

After bringing it home I set it up next to my bed in the den, at arms length, and I played three different PRS SE's thru it, with new strings (two of them with the new Daddario NYXL strings). All three SE's sound significantly better thru the amp now than they did before having the power tubes and a preamp tube replaced (courtesy of Marshall). Marshall supplied the shop with original "Marshall" branded power tubes and one preamp tube. 

The amp tech told me that the original power tubes were "shot" and it needed a preamp tube. The amp sounds very smooth now, with very even and beautiful sounding crunch and overdrive. The employee dude that played it for me in the store stated that my amp has the nicest clean tone he has heard from any Marshall amp he has played. He personally has a Mesa "Lonestar".

Playing this amp at home again is very gratifying. The sounds I am getting from it are beautiful. Everything is stock, including the speaker.

I've had this am for a year or so and it has been my main amp. I play it almost every day for a few hours, so it has seen a quite a bit of use.

At the rate I'm using the amp, I now plan on taking it to an amp tech near me about every six months or so for a check up and rebiasing. I dig this amp and want to keep it maintained.

I totally want to learn how to check my own bias and do my own biasing on my amps. I have a couple amp techs that are willing to show me how to do it and I have a decent digital multimeter, but no clip on leads. Does anyone know where I can get some clip on leads? I would like to have a set.

Anyway, I'm very satisfied with the work that was done on the amp and I think it sounds a lot better. Possibly my view that the amp sounds a lot better is something psychological or some other related type of explanation, but in my mind, I actually believe that it sounds a lot better. The amp tech that did the work is a well known professional in the Harrisburg area that has a reputation of doing exceptionally good work. I have had him work on a couple amps before and have had his partner work on one of my nice guitars - a Schecter C-1 E/A hybrid, a very beautiful and well made guitar. It is the best hybrid guitar I have personally ever played, plus it has many high end features and details that make it, to my eye, a very classy looking guitar. It has a contoured set neck heel that is especially comfortable. Check some out in Google Images, they are very beautiful guitars that you might like if you haven't seen one. They can be acquired used at a decent price, but they are currently out of production.

I'm going back to playing the amp now, at this late hour, at low volume, using my Agile AL-3100 LP copy with a new set of Daddario NYXL strings. I dig these strings and have them on three guitars. The high end Agile LP copy, in cherry flame sunburst, is a very beautiful and great feeling, sounding guitar in its stock form.


----------



## 50WPLEXI

Are all of these made in Vietnam? I thought I saw somewhere that they were made in the U.K.


----------



## Micky

50WPLEXI said:


> Are all of these made in Vietnam? I thought I saw somewhere that they were made in the U.K.



All of the newer DSL's are made in Vietnam.

The Haze series was made in India.

Celestion speakers are made in China.


----------



## 50WPLEXI

Dumb question, is there any quality difference? And what years were they U.K. made.


----------



## Micky

50WPLEXI said:


> Dumb question, is there any quality difference? And what years were they U.K. made.



Holy shit is this a bigass can of worms you just opened!

DSL40c, or any of the new DSL line are made in Vietnam.

The JCM2000 DSL in all it's variants was made in the UK.


----------



## USAPatriot

50WPLEXI said:


> Dumb question, is there any quality difference? And what years were they U.K. made.



My first DSL40C had one capacitor with a leg completely out of its assigned hole and the solder missed it as well...but it played fine. There's going to be some quality issues as far as the work done on the electronics goes. Some QC "Inspector" signed off on the board as being okay. But, it's still a Marshall designed amp and carries their name and warranty. If you get one without issues it should be as good as any other Marshall amp. The difference is in the cost of the labor. If the DSL40C's were made in the UK the prices would reflect that. It may not be as sexy as a hand-wired amp but it plays beyond my capabilities...just like my Gibson LP. I'm a happy camper 

Micky...all is well  Tomorrow I'm 100 miles away so someone else is filling in for me at the hospital. Nice to see some "blood" pitching in for a change lol. I wonder if there's a guitar shop in Tomball, Texas? Hmmm. -Rod-


----------



## skydog1590

I want to send a BIG public thank-you to MartyStrat and Micky for helping me through my new tubes and biasing adventure on my DSL40C. It sounds awesome. I've really loved this amp for the past year and feel good knowing that I have more knowledge of it's inner workings. Thanks for the patience and guidance guys.


----------



## 50WPLEXI

Ok so I have one coming, I think this amp will suit me just fine. Now it comes with a 80 watt 16 ohm Celestion 70/80. I'm more than likely get rid of it. I was thinking of a Creamback but I think they are only 65 watts. 

Will this suffice? I don't want to blow a speaker. If not the Creamback, what do most of you suggest. Really looking forward to it...


----------



## USAPatriot

50WPLEXI said:


> Ok so I have one coming, I think this amp will suit me just fine. Now it comes with a 80 watt 16 ohm Celestial 70/80. I'm more than likely get rid of it. I was thinking of a Creamback but I think they are only 65 watts.
> 
> Will this suffice? I don't want to blow a speaker. If not the Creamback, what do most of you suggest. Really looking forward to it...



65W of anything will more than suffice as the 40C puts out a nominal 40W. I put a Vintage 30 in mine and I don't lose any sleep over it, though I also run the amp in Triode mode...20W. Still, the utput difference between triode and pentode isn't that noticable so I wouldn't be afraid to switch. I've seen a lot of positive posts regarding the 40C and the creamback. I'm sure you'll be happy with it but do give the 70/80 a fair shake before you swap. I liked mine just fine, only swapped because I felt the V-30 would cut some of the highs out. Maybe it did, maybe it didn't. I'd probably need a 'scope to know for sure. -Rod-


----------



## Micky

50WPLEXI said:


> Ok so I have one coming, I think this amp will suit me just fine. Now it comes with a 80 watt 16 ohm Celestion 70/80. I'm more than likely get rid of it. I was thinking of a Creamback but I think they are only 65 watts.
> 
> Will this suffice? I don't want to blow a speaker. If not the Creamback, what do most of you suggest. Really looking forward to it...



Holy shit.

Welcome to the dark side...


----------



## dylumph

Ive got 2. One with a Creamback & one with a well worked in 70/80. I like both. The 70/80 sounds way better than I expected. You won't have any trouble blowing a Creamback 65.


----------



## 50WPLEXI

Awesome guys, I'll give the 70/80 a try first. Now lets get on to tubes if I need to switch out. Maybe a matched quad of Tung Sols? I do like their EL34's, so maybe there as well.

What are your thoughts?


----------



## Duffy49

I'm surprised that no one seems to care to hear about my amp getting fixed and my related observations.

I'm having a whole lotta fun with it and tonight I added raw nickel/silver covers to the stock pickups on my new PRS SE Custom 24 vintage yellow flame.

I'm finding that I'm using the clean channel almost exclusively since the amp repair, no crunch button engaged. It goes into beautiful natural overdrive just by digging in at slightly above bedroom volumes. The amp is sounding brighter and grittier than it ever did before the dude at Full Custom Music worked on it. It sounds just fabulous.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Duffy49 said:


> I'm surprised that no one seems to care to hear about my amp getting fixed and my related observations.
> 
> I'm having a whole lotta fun with it and tonight I added raw nickel/silver covers to the stock pickups on my new PRS SE Custom 24 vintage yellow flame.
> 
> I'm finding that I'm using the clean channel almost exclusively since the amp repair, no crunch button engaged. It goes into beautiful natural overdrive just by digging in at slightly above bedroom volumes. The amp is sounding brighter and grittier than it ever did before the dude at Full Custom Music worked on it. It sounds just fabulous.




Glad your amp is all fixed, just enjoy it now... its a sweet amp!


----------



## Micky

Duffy49 said:


> I'm surprised that no one seems to care to hear about my amp getting fixed and my related observations.
> 
> I'm having a whole lotta fun with it and tonight I added raw nickel/silver covers to the stock pickups on my new PRS SE Custom 24 vintage yellow flame.
> 
> I'm finding that I'm using the clean channel almost exclusively since the amp repair, no crunch button engaged. It goes into beautiful natural overdrive just by digging in at slightly above bedroom volumes. The amp is sounding brighter and grittier than it ever did before the dude at Full Custom Music worked on it. It sounds just fabulous.



That is kinda stretching things... Of course we care!
We just wanna hear what other fun you are having now! 

Don't hold back...


----------



## Knopfler

My first post:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDyD_HIelz4]Albert Lee and his "Go-To Sound" TonePrint - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

Welcome Knopfler.


----------



## Micky

Welcome aboard Knopfler. Albert has always been one of my favorites, kind of a cross between Mark Knopfler and Brad Paisley... But I will bet you already knew that...

Many members formally introduce themselves in the Member Introductions section, where they give a little background and such.

Glad to have you here!


----------



## Knopfler

Thanks!
I´m Spanish, I speak English very bad, but I try read this forum, because I have a Marshall DSL40C from December 2014
I don't have any mods.

I'm sorry for my English.


----------



## Knopfler

Sorry December 2013


----------



## Knopfler

Albert lee use a dsl marshal and thought it was good idea tell here


----------



## Micky

Knopfler said:


> I'm sorry for my English.



Don't feel bad. We have people here from England that cannot speak English...


----------



## So Cal Steve

I decided to try another speaker in mine.

It was between a WGS Invader (50 watt Greenbackish) and a Celestion V-Type.

They were both available used at TGP so I grabbed the cheaper one which was the V-Type. I like the comparison clips I've heard on Youtube.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

So Cal Steve said:


> I decided to try another speaker in mine.
> 
> It was between a WGS Invader (50 watt Greenbackish) and a Celestion V-Type.
> 
> They were both available used at TGP so I grabbed the cheaper one which was the V-Type. I like the comparison clips I've heard on Youtube.




The V-Type is my favorite out of all the speakers I tried with the DSL40


----------



## So Cal Steve

J.LaGrassa said:


> The V-Type is my favorite out of all the speakers I tried with the DSL40



That's great to hear!

In one thread at TGP there seems to be agreement that the V-Type is 50% Greenback, 25% V30 and 25% G12H and Pete Thorn saying that if a person is having trouble deciding which Celestion to get, this would be a good choice.

Hope to have it by the end of the week - the seller is in WI.

BTW, if anyone else is interested, he had 2 available for $60 shipped.


----------



## pkevinb

New member and first post. I picked up a used DSL40c this morning for a good price. It is in excellent condition, very clean, looks new, and everything works as advertised. I have Tuesday off and will really be able to put it through its paces then. I just got a new Epiphone Les Paul Tribute + and now this to go with it. Been a great couple of weeks.


----------



## jimmyjames

Welcome aboard mate


----------



## Len

Say, has anyone attempted any mods to make the Crunch channel a little fuller sounding? To me it's a little thin sounding.


----------



## Micky

pkevinb said:


> New member and first post. I picked up a used DSL40c this morning for a good price. It is in excellent condition, very clean, looks new, and everything works as advertised. I have Tuesday off and will really be able to put it through its paces then. I just got a new Epiphone Les Paul Tribute + and now this to go with it. Been a great couple of weeks.



Greetings!

Most times new members formally introduce themselves in the Member Introductions section. You can tell us all a little about yourself and what you like.

I am certain you will love the DSL40c, be sure to report back after Tuesday after you give it a proper workout!


----------



## Micky

Len said:


> Say, has anyone attempted any mods to make the Crunch channel a little fuller sounding? To me it's a little thin sounding.



Yes, I changed the speaker... Also been looking at lowering the value of the bright cap for the Classic Channel, but haven't needed to lower it since I changed the speaker...


----------



## Duffy49

I recently got my DSL40C back from a very professional amp warranty repair shop in Lemoyne, Pa.: Full Custom Music. The amp has never sounded so good. He said that all the amp needed was new power tubes to replace the &quot;shot&quot; stock ones and a preamp tube. Since this amp now sounds so much better, what could the perceived greatly improved sound be attributed to. The amp never sounded this good and brushing it off as strictly a psychological affect isn't a completely satisfying answer. He said he biased it to what the specs called for. Do you think these guys play the amps and let them settle in, fine tuning by ear close to the recommended specs to get what they think is the best sound? Or something to that effect? I'm very impressed with this stock amp and Marshall sent him stock Marshall power tubes to replace the worn out ones. I wore them out after approx. one year of playing one to two hours per day, at moderate volume and gain levels, without any pedals or power scaling devices. Is this within the expected range of about how long these tubes will last? I suppose that no one really knows considering that they are re-branded Marshall labeled tubes. Anyway, any ideas? My new PRS SE Custom 24 with raw nickel/silver pickup covers installed sounds really great thru this amp. Just as does my Gibson Faded Les Paul Studio, with a smooth maple cap, rosewood fretboard and chrome covered Burstbucker Pro pickups. I dig the Burstbucker Pro's in this Gibson by the way.


----------



## Duffy49

Excuse the long, unbroken paragraph, above. Edit would not let me break it up into several paragraphs for some reason. It is so much easier to read when the ideas are broken down into shorter paragraphs. I appologize for the inconvenience.


----------



## Micky

It's ok... I think we get the idea...

You could have had a bad combination of tubes right from the start - ones that didn't sound as good as the ones in the combination you have now. 

And no, techs generally will spend as little time on an amp as possible, it is not profitable to spend countless hours rolling tubes and tweaking stuff like we do. We should just face facts, like the fact that amps these days don't get as much QC time as before, and that less expensive components at the factory leave us wanting more.

Maybe it is true that over time, you wore out your tubes and they started to sound not as good as before, but because it happened over a year or so, you didn't really notice. Kinda like how your kids get taller, even sometimes up to 12 inches or so, and you don't notice because you see them every day and the change is gradual, even though quite pronounced.

The great thing though is that you got the amp back and it sounds even better than before!

Rock that bitch!


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

Duffy49 said:


> I recently got my DSL40C back from a very professional amp warranty repair shop in Lemoyne, Pa.: Full Custom Music. The amp has never sounded so good. He said that all the amp needed was new power tubes to replace the &quot;shot&quot; stock ones and a preamp tube. Since this amp now sounds so much better, what could the perceived greatly improved sound be attributed to. The amp never sounded this good and brushing it off as strictly a psychological affect isn't a completely satisfying answer. He said he biased it to what the specs called for. Do you think these guys play the amps and let them settle in, fine tuning by ear close to the recommended specs to get what they think is the best sound? Or something to that effect? I'm very impressed with this stock amp and Marshall sent him stock Marshall power tubes to replace the worn out ones. I wore them out after approx. one year of playing one to two hours per day, at moderate volume and gain levels, without any pedals or power scaling devices. Is this within the expected range of about how long these tubes will last? I suppose that no one really knows considering that they are re-branded Marshall labeled tubes. Anyway, any ideas? My new PRS SE Custom 24 with raw nickel/silver pickup covers installed sounds really great thru this amp. Just as does my Gibson Faded Les Paul Studio, with a smooth maple cap, rosewood fretboard and chrome covered Burstbucker Pro pickups. I dig the Burstbucker Pro's in this Gibson by the way.



I'm glad it all worked out for you. Sorry if I missed this, but did they put in the same tubes as stock or were they a different brand?


----------



## So Cal Steve

J.LaGrassa said:


> The V-Type is my favorite out of all the speakers I tried with the DSL40



You're not kidding!

This speaker sounds fantastic in this amp. It sounds more Marshally, if you can believe that - like the tone in my head. There is so much more detail and clarity and like someone at TGP said, to quote:

"The V-Types also seem to have a really awesome ability to clean up, and chime up with less gain, and sound thicker with more gain. Don't ask me how. But they do."

Money well spent!


----------



## Swede

Len said:


> Say, has anyone attempted any mods to make the Crunch channel a little fuller sounding? To me it's a little thin sounding.



Turn up the volume.


----------



## Duffy49

Greatwhitenorth said:


> I'm glad it all worked out for you. Sorry if I missed this, but did they put in the same tubes as stock or were they a different brand?



Marshall provided the service shop with the tubes; power tubes and one preamp tube.

I have not looked inside but I think they are the Marshall labeled ones.

I also think that a lot of it has to do with the way these professional amp dudes bias the amp. They bias them correctly and may check for drift, etc., I'm not certain. Maybe someone here knows how they go about biasing amps at the pro guitar and amp repair shops. It could be that they put in as little time as possible, but I can't imagine someone biasing an amp and not running it for a while and checking for drift. But you never know.

It sounds great though.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Duffy49 said:


> Marshall provided the service shop with the tubes; power tubes and one preamp tube.
> 
> I have not looked inside but I think they are the Marshall labeled ones.
> 
> I also think that a lot of it has to do with the way these professional amp dudes bias the amp. They bias them correctly and may check for drift, etc., I'm not certain. Maybe someone here knows how they go about biasing amps at the pro guitar and amp repair shops. It could be that they put in as little time as possible, but I can't imagine someone biasing an amp and not running it for a while and checking for drift. But you never know.
> 
> It sounds great though.




When I bias my amp I let it run for a while with my meter hooked up to see if it does drift but usually after about 20 minutes both tubes will stabilize and the bias will be fairly stable, I always check my plate voltage as well and calculate the proper bias level... 36-38mA is Ideal in that amp


----------



## Duffy49

J.LaGrassa said:


> When I bias my amp I let it run for a while with my meter hooked up to see if it does drift but usually after about 20 minutes both tubes will stabilize and the bias will be fairly stable, I always check my plate voltage as well and calculate the proper bias level... 36-38mA is Ideal in that amp




This is why I want to learn how to properly and safely bias my own amps. I have a local amp guy here that will bias my amps for me for a reasonable price and also show me how to do it.

I have a decent digital meter but do not have leads with clips. I'm not sure how I would acquire leads with clips.

I probably know enough about electronics and safety to do this myself, with some study of this thread and tutorials available online.

I should make it a point to take one of my amps to this amp guy and have him show me how to bias it.


----------



## Relegate

RadioShack, amazon, etc will all have leads with clips. You'll find the black is best just clipped to the chassis rather than the probe point because of space. It's relatively easy for even me.


----------



## 50WPLEXI

Ok, so is the tube with the rubber grommet V1? V1 in all my other amps was in this slot, furthest away from the transformer. 

Any ECC83/EL34 suggestions?

What is the layout anyway V1, V2, V3, V4 etc....


----------



## Micky

50WPLEXI said:


> Ok, so is the tube with the rubber grommet V1? V1 in all my other amps was in this slot, furthest away from the transformer.
> 
> Any ECC83/EL34 suggestions?
> 
> What is the layout anyway V1, V2, V3, V4 etc....



Ok, ok, I agree this thread is a bit long, I never intended for it to take off like this...

But these things have been covered many times throughout this thread, in many different places. There are several OTHER threads that also address these questions, and I am certain you will get MANY different answers, because much to other peoples dismay, tone is in the EARS...

V1 has the grommett, and they go sequentially from there.

I like NOS tubes, and back toward the front of this thread you can see what I have in there. If I had time, I would permalink or at least find the post number of the NOS tube set I got from MartyStrat.

As far as finals, I like the TAD EL34b-STR's a lot.


----------



## Knopfler

Hello

I found this video, it's interesting:


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFgjzu1ECoc]Celestions speakers: Seventy 80 vs Greenback vs Creamback 65 - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Micky

Duffy49 said:


> This is why I want to learn how to properly and safely bias my own amps. I have a local amp guy here that will bias my amps for me for a reasonable price and also show me how to do it.
> 
> I have a decent digital meter but do not have leads with clips. I'm not sure how I would acquire leads with clips.
> 
> I probably know enough about electronics and safety to do this myself, with some study of this thread and tutorials available online.
> 
> I should make it a point to take one of my amps to this amp guy and have him show me how to bias it.



Any tech worth his or her salt will let an amp settle in before any final adjustments or settings. And biasing is easy. It is easy to be safe as well as accurate if you take your time and have the proper tools.

If you cannot change leads on your meter or get leads with small clips, then get a new meter. And yes, Rat Shack even has micro clips that will fit onto the probes of most meter leads which makes it a breeze to be safe as well as accurate when biasing an amp.

The procedure is described on the very first page of this thread. I must also add - There are LETHAL hi-voltages present in this amp when the chassis is removed. Marshall has done a great job in minimizing the risk to those who choose to open the amp up, but one still must take adequate steps to insure personal safety and safety of those around you.

All filter caps are now mounted topside on the mainboard, which shields their contacts from the tech. This is a good thing. Marshall installs 1-ohm resistors and provides test points so that users can measure millivolts instead of interrupting a circuit and measuring milliamps directly. They have made it as safe as possible, but users MUST take their own steps to insure safety.

Users should have an un-cluttered work area. You also need a DMM with the appropriate SMALL test clips suitable for measuring bias voltage at the test point connector. An insulated plastic screwdriver is recommended, a 'slug tool' is what I use, which is basically a plastic flat-bladed screwdriver/adjustment tool. And patience. Patience is REQUIRED, take your time and do it right. (large or even medium alligator clips are unsuitable)

This is not beyond the capabilities of most users, but if you are unsure, or unfamiliar with working on hi-voltage tube amps, you should consult a tech, or take it/send it to an authorized repair center. If you do not have the required skills or tools to perform this maintenance, again consult a tech or take it to an authorized repair center. There is no cost you can place on a human life, so don't risk it if you don't have to.


----------



## 50WPLEXI

Micky said:


> Ok, ok, I agree this thread is a bit long, I never intended for it to take off like this...
> 
> But these things have been covered many times throughout this thread, in many different places. There are several OTHER threads that also address these questions, and I am certain you will get MANY different answers, because much to other peoples dismay, tone is in the EARS...
> 
> V1 has the grommett, and they go sequentially from there.
> 
> I like NOS tubes, and back toward the front of this thread you can see what I have in there. If I had time, I would permalink or at least find the post number of the NOS tube set I got from MartyStrat.
> 
> As far as finals, I like the TAD EL34b-STR's a lot.


 

Thanks for the rehash. My attention span is short, and I'm not really a reader:deadhorse:


----------



## Duffy49

Micky said:


> Any tech worth his or her salt will let an amp settle in before any final adjustments or settings. And biasing is easy. It is easy to be safe as well as accurate if you take your time and have the proper tools.
> 
> If you cannot change leads on your meter or get leads with small clips, then get a new meter. And yes, Rat Shack even has micro clips that will fit onto the probes of most meter leads which makes it a breeze to be safe as well as accurate when biasing an amp.
> 
> The procedure is described on the very first page of this thread. I must also add - There are LETHAL hi-voltages present in this amp when the chassis is removed. Marshall has done a great job in minimizing the risk to those who choose to open the amp up, but one still must take adequate steps to insure personal safety and safety of those around you.
> 
> All filter caps are now mounted topside on the mainboard, which shields their contacts from the tech. This is a good thing. Marshall installs 1-ohm resistors and provides test points so that users can measure millivolts instead of interrupting a circuit and measuring milliamps directly. They have made it as safe as possible, but users MUST take their own steps to insure safety.
> 
> Users should have an un-cluttered work area. You also need a DMM with the appropriate SMALL test clips suitable for measuring bias voltage at the test point connector. An insulated plastic screwdriver is recommended, a 'slug tool' is what I use, which is basically a plastic flat-bladed screwdriver/adjustment tool. And patience. Patience is REQUIRED, take your time and do it right. (large or even medium alligator clips are unsuitable)
> 
> This is not beyond the capabilities of most users, but if you are unsure, or unfamiliar with working on hi-voltage tube amps, you should consult a tech, or take it/send it to an authorized repair center. If you do not have the required skills or tools to perform this maintenance, again consult a tech or take it to an authorized repair center. There is no cost you can place on a human life, so don't risk it if you don't have to.




These guys at Full Custom Music are very professional and personable but they are not about a lot of talking - they have work to do and a busy schedule. I think that they go a very good job.

He just told me that he biased it according to the specs for that amp. I think that he checked it and let it settle in before calling the job done, but he did not elaborate on his exact procedures.

I have be very happy with all of the work that I have had this place do to my guitars and amps. They don't do a lot of casual talking about procedures, etc., but they do high quality work and very thorough.


----------



## dougb256

dave999z said:


> $750 is way too much for this amp! I paid $577.14 total to be exact, free shipping, no sales tax, from Zzounds. Brand new and unopened. Anyway, it's up to you man.... I just don't like to see someone getting ripped off by GC. And that difference will cover the pedal you're wanting.



New guy here... just picked up a DSL40C at GC this past weekend, $350 including tax. It was their Amp Day sale - bring in an amp to trade, get 20% off. I traded in a Class 5 and a little Fender Mustang I. Got $240 trade-in value. So mine was $700 - $140 (20%) - $240 (trade in) + tax. Killer deal!


----------



## Micky

dougb256 said:


> New guy here... just picked up a DSL40C at GC this past weekend, $350 including tax. It was their Amp Day sale - bring in an amp to trade, get 20% off. I traded in a Class 5 and a little Fender Mustang I. Got $240 trade-in value. So mine was $700 - $140 (20%) - $240 (trade in) + tax. Killer deal!



Awesome deal!

You will love this amp...


----------



## dougb256

Micky said:


> Awesome deal!
> 
> You will love this amp...



Thanks! Already having a lot of fun with it. I'm up to page 61 on this thread, I'd better get back to reading


----------



## SlickTide1

Sweetwater has an exclusive Dsl40cst with a Celestial Cremeback. Is this from factory or is Sweetwater changing it? It's the same price seems like a good deal. Is this a good upgrade in speakers over stock?


----------



## armandodiaz

My quest for the "perfect tone" continues.

Right now my 40c has the following:
Creamback 65
C19 off
Classic Tones Choke
TAD power tubes (560V) Bias to 38
V1 TungSol (new)
V2 JJ 5751 (new)
V3 JJ ECC83S
V4 JJ ECC83S

Results:
The vol seems low (almost kind of flat) even when switched to the 40W and vol on 7. I'm thinking it might be the 5751 on V2. But right now the only 12AX7 I have on hand is the stock Marshall. So my options....

Put one of the JJ ECC83S in V2 and put the Marshall in either V3 or V4. 
Put the Marshall in V2
Put one of the JJ ECC83S in V2 and put the 5751 in either V3 or V4.
Buy a JJ 12AX7S Mid-Gain in V2.

Any opinions on which I should do?


----------



## armandodiaz

SlickTide1 said:


> Sweetwater has an exclusive Dsl40cst with a Celestial Cremeback. Is this from factory or is Sweetwater changing it? It's the same price seems like a good deal. Is this a good upgrade in speakers over stock?



If I didn't have a 20% coupon and free financing, from GC, I would have went for that deal. That being said.... I switched out the OEM speaker for a Creamback.


----------



## armandodiaz

So.....

I took out the 5751 and put it in V4 then put the JJ 83S in V2. Sounded much better, but still a little flat. I put the OEM Marshall in V4 and it was much better, but not quite there. In reading a couple of older posts, it looks like I should have swapped V3. I might try that. I'm also still thinking of ordering the JJ mid-gain 12AX7.

The lows are also sounding a little thin, I may also desolder C4.


----------



## USAPatriot

Duffy49 said:


> This is why I want to learn how to properly and safely bias my own amps. I have a local amp guy here that will bias my amps for me for a reasonable price and also show me how to do it.
> 
> I have a decent digital meter but do not have leads with clips. I'm not sure how I would acquire leads with clips.
> 
> [SNIP]



Clips aren't absolutely necessary. Safer yes, but the job is still easily done with regular lead probes. Be careful, especially when checking the plate voltage and don't slip! Also, clips aren't going to work when you need to take a measurement and all you have is two blobs of solder. Firmly put the points onto the solder blobs. Too hard and you'll slip for sure. If you were close by I could show you how it's done in 30 minutes, very easy...but very daunting if you've not done it before. I get it. -Rod-


----------



## USAPatriot

armandodiaz said:


> My quest for the "perfect tone" continues.
> 
> Right now my 40c has the following:
> Creamback 65
> C19 off
> Classic Tones Choke
> TAD power tubes (560V) Bias to 38
> V1 TungSol (new)
> V2 JJ 5751 (new)
> V3 JJ ECC83S
> V4 JJ ECC83S
> 
> Results:
> The vol seems low (almost kind of flat) even when switched to the 40W and vol on 7. I'm thinking it might be the 5751 on V2. But right now the only 12AX7 I have on hand is the stock Marshall. So my options....
> 
> Put one of the JJ ECC83S in V2 and put the Marshall in either V3 or V4.
> Put the Marshall in V2
> Put one of the JJ ECC83S in V2 and put the 5751 in either V3 or V4.
> Buy a JJ 12AX7S Mid-Gain in V2.
> 
> Any opinions on which I should do?



If the volume is low on 7, try 8! Is your guitar turned up? If the volume is actually low on 7...as in bedroom volume low, then you have other problems...transformer or bad power tubes. Without an attenuator or something turned down, 7 should be way loud when it comes to residential use. FWIW. I think we need your definition of "low" and how/where you're using your amp. -Rod-


----------



## Duffy49

USAPatriot said:


> If the volume is low on 7, try 8! Is your guitar turned up? If the volume is actually low on 7...as in bedroom volume low, then you have other problems...transformer or bad power tubes. Without an attenuator or something turned down, 7 should be way loud when it comes to residential use. FWIW. I think we need your definition of "low" and how/where you're using your amp. -Rod-




Mine was recently outputting very low volume turned all the way up. I sent it in for warranty repairs and the only thing they did was replace the power tubes, bias the amp, and replace one preamp tube. They used all new Marshall branded tubes that Marshall provided them, and the amp now sound better than it ever did.

Next time I will probably use some of the power tubes recommended here, as it will be out of warranty I suppose; and I'll have a local guy here that builds amps do it for me. That is until I learn how to bias my own amps.

At 7 the amp should be window rattling loud, as well as ear splittingly loud; unless the gain is turned down to almost nothing.


----------



## pkevinb

I could use some help with my amp. I love the sound but it is a tad "bright" for my taste. I am ordering a Celestion G12M-65 Creamback to install. I would also like to get a set of replacement tubes as well but I am completely lost.

I just re-tubed my Bugera V22 with a set of JJ tubes and I really like what they did. Would I get similar results if I did the same thing with a set of JJ tubes all around? I have read all the post of different tubes to use in certain positions and I really don't think I could tell the difference between one tube and another. I just want something to tame some of the highs and maybe darken it up a little bit if that makes sense.

Or, should I just stay with the tubes that are in it for now?


----------



## Micky

Both upgrades will get you closer to a 'less bright' sound.
Sounds like you have a very good idea about what sound you want and how to get it!

Be sure to report back here to let us all know how it sounds!


----------



## J.LaGrassa

pkevinb said:


> I could use some help with my amp. I love the sound but it is a tad "bright" for my taste. I am ordering a Celestion G12M-65 Creamback to install. I would also like to get a set of replacement tubes as well but I am completely lost.
> 
> I just re-tubed my Bugera V22 with a set of JJ tubes and I really like what they did. Would I get similar results if I did the same thing with a set of JJ tubes all around? I have read all the post of different tubes to use in certain positions and I really don't think I could tell the difference between one tube and another. I just want something to tame some of the highs and maybe darken it up a little bit if that makes sense.
> 
> Or, should I just stay with the tubes that are in it for now?




JJ's are great for taking the edge off the highs, I use all JJ ECC83S and a pair of JJ E34L power tubes with excellent results. I prefer the Celestion V-Type over the Creambacks... I tried both G12H & G12M versions and they are still on the bright side but the G12M is still a nice speaker.


----------



## Duffy49

pkevinb said:


> I could use some help with my amp. I love the sound but it is a tad "bright" for my taste. I am ordering a Celestion G12M-65 Creamback to install. I would also like to get a set of replacement tubes as well but I am completely lost.
> 
> I just re-tubed my Bugera V22 with a set of JJ tubes and I really like what they did. Would I get similar results if I did the same thing with a set of JJ tubes all around? I have read all the post of different tubes to use in certain positions and I really don't think I could tell the difference between one tube and another. I just want something to tame some of the highs and maybe darken it up a little bit if that makes sense.
> 
> Or, should I just stay with the tubes that are in it for now?




In the meantime you might try adjusting the tone knob on your guitar until you reach a sweet spot that just cuts the top off some of the highs. I do that sometimes when I want a certain sound, but I like a bright amp. Clean crunch seems to mellow out the brightness, but then again I adjust the tone on my guitars a lot.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do with it.


----------



## pkevinb

Thanks for the confirmation guys. I also have a new guitar with Gibson 57 classics in it as well so I think I need to get used to the them as well. I just don't want to go too far the other way and loose the nice cleans that I'm getting. It's a very nice forum here and I'm glad I joined.


----------



## mickeydg5

Welcome Pkevinb.
Tube rolling is common talk here. Use whichever tube works best in each position.
If a JJ does it then stick to it.


----------



## Liquor

Which of these creambacks would suit the DSL40c better, the G12M-65 or G12H-75? I'm finding it a hard choice as my ears hear a bit of a difference.


----------



## armandodiaz

Just a little verification.....

When I read the voltage off of my TAD power tubes I got a 360V (off the 3rd wire of the sockets). It seemed kinda low, since most people here have readings in the 400's. Anyway, I went to Weber's Bias Calculator and it states at 70%, I should bias the tubes to 48.6mA. Does that sound right, it seems kinda high?

Thanks,


----------



## Micky

armandodiaz said:


> Just a little verification.....
> 
> When I read the voltage off of my TAD power tubes I got a 360V (off the 3rd wire of the sockets). It seemed kinda low, since most people here have readings in the 400's. Anyway, I went to Weber's Bias Calculator and it states at 70%, I should bias the tubes to 48.6mA. Does that sound right, it seems kinda high?
> 
> Thanks,



Where are you located? What is your wall voltage?
And yes, it seems kinda low...


----------



## armandodiaz

Florida. wall voltage = 120V


----------



## Micky

Sounds like something might be wrong.
You should have about 460 VDC on pin 3 (+/- 10VDC or so)

Is that the highest voltage you can read on any of the pins?
Do you have access to another DMM?
What DMM are you using now?

I know these may be silly questions, but I would verify you are set to VDC, 600V max black lead to chassis ground. I would verify the reading with another meter, and if the B+ was still low, I would pull all the tubes and measure again...


----------



## armandodiaz

I will try it again. I only checked pin 3, since that's the one stated to use (don't want to go around poking around, and getting fried). I have an old fluke that I've had since my days as an auto tech (30yrs ago).
Just a question.... should I get the same readings no matter which tubes I have installed? I can try and put back the OEM tubes.


----------



## Micky

armandodiaz said:


> I will try it again. I only checked pin 3, since that's the one stated to use (don't want to go around poking around, and getting fried). I have an old fluke that I've had since my days as an auto tech (30yrs ago).
> Just a question.... should I get the same readings no matter which tubes I have installed? I can try and put back the OEM tubes.



Unless the tubes have a problem, like drawing too much current, the readings should be the same. Here is a series of charts I use when taking initial measurements:

http://www.bustedgear.com/res_Tube_pinouts.pdf


----------



## armandodiaz

thanks, that will help


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> Unless the tubes have a problem, like drawing too much current, the readings should be the same. Here is a series of charts I use when taking initial measurements:
> 
> http://www.bustedgear.com/res_Tube_pinouts.pdf



I hadn't seen that chart before and found it instantly useful. Thanks, Micky  -Rod-


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Micky said:


> Unless the tubes have a problem, like drawing too much current, the readings should be the same. Here is a series of charts I use when taking initial measurements:
> 
> http://www.bustedgear.com/res_Tube_pinouts.pdf



nice chart, just downloaded that!


----------



## dougb256

Knopfler said:


> Hello
> 
> I found this video, it's interesting:
> 
> 
> Celestions speakers: Seventy 80 vs Greenback vs Creamback 65 - YouTube


Based on this, I'd say there is as good chance that I'll be getting a Creamback 65 in the near future. Greenback sounded good but the 70/80 sounded thin in all cases.


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> Sounds like something might be wrong.
> You should have about 460 VDC on pin 3 (+/- 10VDC or so)
> 
> Is that the highest voltage you can read on any of the pins?
> Do you have access to another DMM?
> What DMM are you using now?
> 
> I know these may be silly questions, but I would verify you are set to VDC, 600V max black lead to chassis ground. I would verify the reading with another meter, and if the B+ was still low, I would pull all the tubes and measure again...



I may or may not have this right, but it seems to me that the VDC is tube-dependant. One set of tubes I ran were 454V at pin 3, the lowest I've measured so far, Another set was 463V as I recall. My current set is running 460V on the money. If something seems amiss, try another set. I'm no tech so this is just something I've observed.

CORRECTION: Reviewing my notes, which are apparently better than my memory  My EH 6CA7's ran 452 and 450V respectively. That really hot set of 6CA7's, that wouldn't bias below about 60mv, metered out at 438V. My other sets, TADs and JJ's, were at 458V. -Rod-


----------



## Micky

I believe that the PT output is very dependent on the load, i.e. a hotter set of tubes drawing more current will 'load down' the PT more than a cooler set.

This is why it is important to measure the voltage when biasing to insure you stay in a safe range. (50-70 %)

A more 'robust' or possibly bigger PT may not suffer the same effect.


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> I believe that the PT output is very dependent on the load, i.e. a hotter set of tubes drawing more current will 'load down' the PT more than a cooler set.
> 
> This is why it is important to measure the voltage when biasing to insure you stay in a safe range. (50-70 %)
> 
> A more 'robust' or possibly bigger PT may not suffer the same effect.



I guess I'd have to agree with that, logically. It would seem that Marshall gave us "just enough" to do the job. But wouldn't a more 'robust' transformer simply start out at a higher VDC? There seems to be a paradox at work. You'd think that the hot set of tubes I had would draw more to feed themselves, yet they drew less. Or maybe it's resistance at work. Dunno. -Rod-


----------



## Micky

Think of a PT as the engine in your vehicle.

Now you have 2 vehicles, one is a 1000hp truck and the other is a 90hp car.

To climb the hill near your house, in the truck you can do that on an idle. No real load.
If you tried to idle up the hill in your car, it would stall. Huge load, and you need to compensate by stepping up the rpms in order to make it.

With the OEM PT, you can't step up the rpms, so something has gotta give. 
The voltage drops.

If it was a more powerful PT, the voltage wouldn't drop so much.

Kind of a simple analogy, and there are other factors, but it all boils down to somethings gotta give...


----------



## USAPatriot

That works for me, Micky! Thanks  -Rod-


----------



## mickeydg5




----------



## J.LaGrassa

Anyone going to try or have tried this new tube from Eurotubes it's the JJ EL34 II, I may give these a shot soon but still a big fan of the E34L.

_From there web page!_

A brand new EL34 offering called the EL34 II. Its low mid focus is a little lower than the standard EL34 and it just sounds FAT!
It has all the high end and upper mids you would expect from a great EL34 but it just sounds BIG! It’s not as aggressive as the E34L,
but everyone who has heard it so far called it their favorite.


----------



## frankyfal

J.LaGrassa said:


> Anyone going to try or have tried this new tube from Eurotubes it's the JJ EL34 II, I may give these a shot soon but still a big fan of the E34L.


The power tubes are the only thing I have yet to change out on my dsl40. These look interesting.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

frankyfal said:


> The power tubes are the only thing I have yet to change out on my dsl40. These look interesting.




I'm using the JJ E34L right now they have a very nice low end to them and headroom is a little higher compared to the stock power tubes!


----------



## Skylarkpilot

1


----------



## jimmyjames

Play it right up until the return deadline, then you'll know


----------



## Len

Skylarkpilot said:


> Ok, I need to ask you guys a slightly off topic question.
> I have a very nice Gibson Les Paul Standard ’08 and I recently bought a Hofner acoustic to accompany my daughter as she learns guitar. I've been gassing for a Fender Stratocaster and Thomann (a music company near me) had an American Standard with custom shop Fat50 pickups and all the extras in a very beautiful metallic blue...... Should I give in to temptation or stay strong ? ?
> I'm asking because I ordered it then decided to be sensible and cancelled it. I was a bit too late and it's now in my basement.........I can return it for a full refund ... But .....?



Yeah, that's off topic alright . Why not post it in a guitar forum where you'll get more replies?


----------



## So Cal Steve

J.LaGrassa said:


> JJ's are great for taking the edge off the highs, I use all JJ ECC83S and a pair of JJ E34L power tubes with excellent results. I prefer the Celestion V-Type over the Creambacks... I tried both G12H & G12M versions and they are still on the bright side but the G12M is still a nice speaker.



I agree - the V-Type is a great match with these amps.

I did mini-review a page or 2 back.

I'm trying to sell my amp locally and will be keeping the V-Type. I have a Vox AC15C1 on the way and will compare the V-Type with the stock Greenback in that amp or maybe sell them both toward a Celestion Blue.

BTW, nothing against the amp, I've just been playing Marshalls and clones for years and am going in a different direction. Instead of humbuckers into a dirty Marshall I'm going Tele into a Vox cleanish blues rhythm playing.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

So Cal Steve said:


> You're not kidding!
> 
> This speaker sounds fantastic in this amp. It sounds more Marshally, if you can believe that - like the tone in my head. There is so much more detail and clarity and like someone at TGP said, to quote:
> 
> "The V-Types also seem to have a really awesome ability to clean up, and chime up with less gain, and sound thicker with more gain. Don't ask me how. But they do."
> 
> Money well spent!




Ended up buying another V-Type, I regretted selling the one I had and just reinstalled it today... sounds great right out of the box!


----------



## kingbee

Thanks for that! I dig the V-Type in my DSL40C. Fwiw, I put V-Types in my EVH 2x12 to go with my EVH 5150 III 50 watt. What a great speaker!


----------



## rpinon69

So Cal Steve said:


> I agree - the V-Type is a great match with these amps.
> 
> I did mini-review a page or 2 back.
> 
> I'm trying to sell my amp locally and will be keeping the V-Type. I have a Vox AC15C1 on the way and will compare the V-Type with the stock Greenback in that amp or maybe sell them both toward a Celestion Blue.
> 
> BTW, nothing against the amp, I've just been playing Marshalls and clones for years and am going in a different direction. Instead of humbuckers into a dirty Marshall I'm going Tele into a Vox cleanish blues rhythm playing.



Watched the video comparison a few pages back I really digging the tone form the G12H 75 watt. Which was less bright the G12H or G12M?

Thanks


----------



## rpinon69

J.LaGrassa said:


> JJ's are great for taking the edge off the highs, I use all JJ ECC83S and a pair of JJ E34L power tubes with excellent results. I prefer the Celestion V-Type over the Creambacks... I tried both G12H & G12M versions and they are still on the bright side but the G12M is still a nice speaker.



Watched the video comparison a few pages back I really digging the tone form the G12H 75 watt. Which was less bright the G12H or G12M?

Thank


----------



## J.LaGrassa

rpinon69 said:


> Watched the video comparison a few pages back I really digging the tone form the G12H 75 watt. Which was less bright the G12H or G12M?
> 
> Thank



I've had both the Creambacks and the CB 65 (G12M) was little less bright.


----------



## rpinon69

J.LaGrassa said:


> I've had both the Creambacks and the CB 65 (G12M) was little less bright.



Thanks! I am seriously considering putting one in. When you talk about the V-Type are you referring to 

Classic - V-Type - Celestion - Guitar, Bass & Pro Audio Speakers

It's not as pricey as the G12M Creamback!


----------



## J.LaGrassa

rpinon69 said:


> Thanks! I am seriously considering putting one in. When you talk about the V-Type are you referring to
> 
> Classic - V-Type - Celestion - Guitar, Bass & Pro Audio Speakers
> 
> It's not as pricey as the G12M Creamback!



Yes thats the one, I love that speaker in the DSL40. For me I prefer it over the Creambacks it suits the music I play and the tones I like.

Here is a little sample of the V-Type I recorded this when i first got it, its with my PRS McCarty and the tubes I use are JJ ECC83S and JJ E34L using Lead 1!
[SC]https://soundcloud.com/j-lagrassa/dsl40c-v-type[/SC]


----------



## rpinon69

J.LaGrassa said:


> Yes thats the one, I love that speaker in the DSL40. For me I prefer it over the Creambacks it suits the music I play and the tones I like.
> 
> Here is a little sample of the V-Type I recorded this when i first got it, its with my PRS McCarty and the tubes I use are JJ ECC83S and JJ E34L using Lead 1!
> [SC]https://soundcloud.com/j-lagrassa/dsl40c-v-type[/SC]



That sounds really good are you going straight in no overdrive? i am also curious on how you captured such a pure tone. SM57 on the cone?

Thanks


----------



## J.LaGrassa

rpinon69 said:


> That sounds really good are you going straight in no overdrive? i am also curious on how you captured such a pure tone. SM57 on the cone?
> 
> Thanks




Straight into the amp, I used a Tascam DR-05 digital recorder setup about 2' away from the amp so it captures the room as well.


----------



## Micky

So it looks like I am gonna perform OT surgery on my DSL40c over the Thanksgiving holiday. I have had the replacement OT for a while now, it just boils down to having the time to do it.

2 others I know of have done this, SkyLarkPilot and DSMer, and both had to drill the chassis for the mounting tabs, as this is not an exact replacement for this OT. Their posts are #1024 and 1344, located here:

http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...dsl40c-information-thread-34.html#post1097387 and here:
http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...dsl40c-information-thread-26.html#post1073546

I haven't had the DSL40c open in a while, there has just been no need whatsoever to bring the beast upstairs to work on it. It has been looking a bit sad, as I have favored the Haze15 lately because of the mods I have done there...

As always, I will post photos...


----------



## armandodiaz

armandodiaz said:


> Just a little verification.....
> 
> When I read the voltage off of my TAD power tubes I got a 360V (off the 3rd wire of the sockets). It seemed kinda low, since most people here have readings in the 400's. Anyway, I went to Weber's Bias Calculator and it states at 70%, I should bias the tubes to 48.6mA. Does that sound right, it seems kinda high?
> 
> Thanks,


 
OK I finally got around to retesting the voltage. This time I connect the amp directly to the wall. Before I had it connect to a surge protector. It measured 454VDC. So the surge protector was sucking the power. I re-biased the TADs to 39V and threw the surge protector in the garbage.

Now it is sounding incredible. However, the best I can do on the treble and presence is 2. I'm still thinking of doing a C4 mod.


----------



## Micky

Sounds great! That you got things sorted, that is...
DSL's are bright amps, and with the stock speaker it is very obvious.
Give the speaker a chance to break in and I think you will be pleasantly surprised!


----------



## MarshallDog

Micky said:


> So it looks like I am gonna perform OT surgery on my DSL40c over the Thanksgiving holiday. I have had the replacement OT for a while now, it just boils down to having the time to do it.
> 
> 2 others I know of have done this, SkyLarkPilot and DSMer, and both had to drill the chassis for the mounting tabs, as this is not an exact replacement for this OT. Their posts are #1024 and 1344, located here:
> 
> http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...dsl40c-information-thread-34.html#post1097387 and here:
> http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...dsl40c-information-thread-26.html#post1073546
> 
> I haven't had the DSL40c open in a while, there has just been no need whatsoever to bring the beast upstairs to work on it. It has been looking a bit sad, as I have favored the Haze15 lately because of the mods I have done there...
> 
> As always, I will post photos...



Are you going to use the Clssic Tone OT? Let us know how it affects tone. I have been thinking about doing this mod for some time also. Good luck and have fun...


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> So it looks like I am gonna perform OT surgery on my DSL40c over the Thanksgiving holiday. I have had the replacement OT for a while now, it just boils down to having the time to do it.
> 
> 2 others I know of have done this, SkyLarkPilot and DSMer, and both had to drill the chassis for the mounting tabs, as this is not an exact replacement for this OT. Their posts are #1024 and 1344, located here:
> 
> http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...dsl40c-information-thread-34.html#post1097387 and here:
> http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...dsl40c-information-thread-26.html#post1073546
> 
> I haven't had the DSL40c open in a while, there has just been no need whatsoever to bring the beast upstairs to work on it. It has been looking a bit sad, as I have favored the Haze15 lately because of the mods I have done there...
> 
> As always, I will post photos...



Looking forward to it, Micky! I still have a choke sitting here waiting to be installed. I just need the time for it and the will to drill. I haven't played in 3 days and am irritated over it. Just too much going on  -Rod-


----------



## Micky

MarshallDog said:


> Are you going to use the Clssic Tone OT? Let us know how it affects tone. I have been thinking about doing this mod for some time also. Good luck and have fun...



Yes, ClassicTone for sure. I just hope I get time... Snow storm coming...


----------



## Micky

USAPatriot said:


> Looking forward to it, Micky! I still have a choke sitting here waiting to be installed. I just need the time for it and the will to drill. I haven't played in 3 days and am irritated over it. Just too much going on  -Rod-



Yes, I know how busy it can get... I have had my share of all-nighters at work, and to be honest, I am sick of it. Looks like I may have to work over the Xmas holiday as well... So I need to enjoy this one! Today was the last day this week, I have 5 days in a row off now. Holiday, grocery shopping, snow storm, all of it combines to create conditions well beyond our control.

Oh how well I know it...


----------



## mickeydg5

armandodiaz said:


> OK I finally got around to retesting the voltage. This time I connect the amp directly to the wall. Before I had it connect to a surge protector. It measured 454VDC. So the surge protector was sucking the power. I re-biased the TADs to 39V and threw the surge protector in the garbage.
> 
> Now it is sounding incredible. However, the best I can do on the treble and presence is 2. I'm still thinking of doing a C4 mod.


You threw a perfectly good brounsownd eVh4 surge protector in the garbage?
Man, some people would almost die for that.









I just had to.


----------



## Skylarkpilot

Hi there. Both jobs ( O/T and choke ) are pretty straightforward. Just be careful with the drilling as the back of the circuit board is only about an inch under the chassis. If you have one, use a depth stop, or just go very easy on it. 
Most people seem to agree that the O/T swap is a rather overlooked improvement. I was reading a rather good article in a Premier Guitar about the guy from Voodoo Amps. He seems to be a believer in a better quality OT.


----------



## Penguinchit

Micky said:


> Give the speaker a chance to break in and I think you will be pleasantly surprised!



At the volume I play (am allowed to play), I will probably never break in my speaker.


----------



## USAPatriot

mickeydg5 said:


> You threw a perfectly good brounsownd eVh4 surge protector in the garbage?
> Man, some people would almost die for that.
> 
> I just had to.



I was actually curious if the poster put the power strip on a meter to see what was what. Maybe just the one plug was bad or maybe it wasn't bad at all. US voltage generally runs 110-120V and it's not always constant. Curiously, (NOT!) I have no idea what it actually takes to get that ~460V. 110 or 120? What happens if it's 117? Or 122? It's something I'd like to explore if I had a voltage regulator with an accurate and adjustable output (I assume they all do) and then document what happens at pin3 when voltage is raised or lowered. Does it matter? Not really, not for most people. It may if they play shitty bars or rooms though. I just like to know why things are the way they are, so it's an interesting question to me, knowwhatImean?  -Rod-


----------



## mickeydg5

USAPatriot said:


> I was actually curious if the poster put the power strip on a meter to see what was what. Maybe just the one plug was bad or maybe it wasn't bad at all. US voltage generally runs 110-120V and it's not always constant. Curiously, (NOT!) I have no idea what it actually takes to get that ~460V. 110 or 120? What happens if it's 117? Or 122? It's something I'd like to explore if I had a voltage regulator with an accurate and adjustable output (I assume they all do) and then document what happens at pin3 when voltage is raised or lowered. Does it matter? Not really, not for most people. It may if they play shitty bars or rooms though. I just like to know why things are the way they are, so it's an interesting question to me, knowwhatImean?  -Rod-


A few volts at the wall is no big deal. A variation of +/- 5V from a 120V wall may give roughly between 440 to 475 at the power tube plates.

Hopefully your 120 supply does not drop to 110. But even with that all voltages will drop about 8%.

For an amplifier that normally has 454 to drop to 360 volts on the plate a drop at the wall supply of 120V would have to drop into the 90V range. Your utilities should never drop that much.


----------



## USAPatriot

HAPPY THANKSGIVING to all you 40C owners! -Rod-


----------



## Coronado

Okay guys, I'm gonna sneak this question in under the DSL40 thread cause I'm too embarrassed to ask it in a new thread... My DSL40 brothers have always been so helpful, I thought I could sneak this dumb question in and you guys _might just_ forgive me being Thanksgiving an all (I get one dumb "_gimme_" since its a holiday, right?) 

Ducking my head in shame, on my 74' 1987 MKII 50 watt, is V1 farthest away from the power tubes? Came across some conflicting info out on the web, so I wanted to be absolutely sure. Sorry guys, but thank you!

*Happy Thanksgiving!!*


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Had an excellent night last night jamming with some friends the DSL40 was sounding so good, also got to hear the amp from a listeners perspective while some friends used my amp... classic Marshall tones that I love the Celestion V-Type is such a great match for this amp. 

Happy Thanksgiving!


----------



## Micky

Coronado said:


> Okay guys, I'm gonna sneak this question in under the DSL40 thread cause I'm too embarrassed to ask it in a new thread... My DSL40 brothers have always been so helpful, I thought I could sneak this dumb question in and you guys _might just_ forgive me being Thanksgiving an all (I get one dumb "_gimme_" since its a holiday, right?)
> 
> Ducking my head in shame, on my 74' 1987 MKII 50 watt, is V1 farthest away from the power tubes? Came across some conflicting info out on the web, so I wanted to be absolutely sure. Sorry guys, but thank you!
> 
> *Happy Thanksgiving!!*



Yes.


----------



## Coronado

Micky said:


> Yes.


 
Excellent - thanks Micky. Just wanted to be sure. Memory aint what it used to be...


----------



## Micky

Coronado said:


> Excellent - thanks Micky. Just wanted to be sure. Memory aint what it used to be...



Memory is the first thing to go, I forget what the second thing is...

Anyway, another indicator of V1 is that it is generally closest to the input.
They tend to keep those leads short to prevent hum...


----------



## Coronado

Micky said:


> Memory is the first thing to go, I forget what the second thing is...





Micky said:


> Anyway, another indicator of V1 is that it is generally closest to the input.
> They tend to keep those leads short to prevent hum...




You just taught a man to fish Micky - thanks brother! Gonna write that down so I don't ask the same question again in a couple months when I pull the preamps on my DSL40! HA! Good to know that this is standard for different types of Marshalls.


----------



## USAPatriot

mickeydg5 said:


> A few volts at the wall is no big deal. A variation of +/- 5V from a 120V wall may give roughly between 440 to 475 at the power tube plates.
> 
> Hopefully your 120 supply does not drop to 110. But even with that all voltages will drop about 8%.
> 
> For an amplifier that normally has 454 to drop to 360 volts on the plate a drop at the wall supply of 120V would have to drop into the 90V range. Your utilities should never drop that much.



I decided to see for myself, at least external to the amp. At the wall I'm getting 124.4V. Since I'm using a surge protector, I checked the specific outlet in the device that my amp is plugged into and I get 124.3V. My EH-6CA7's (current set) metered at 452 and 450V and I biased them at 38.3 and 38.2 respectively. The previous set were initially 459 and 460V but then both settled in at 464V after 30 minutes. That "hot" set of 6CA7's were initially 438V and settled at 450V but would not bias below 58 on one at 67 on the other. Both would bias as high as 110. lol. Needless to say, I sent them back. -Rod-


----------



## Finnster

I find the bottom end to be a bit flubby or farty.....are those words?? Lol

Anyway. Mine has M65 Creamback and C19 mod.

Would KT77's be an improvement for a tighter bottom end? 

I generally run these settings:

Lead 1 and Crunch mode:

Crunch: gain 7 and volume 8
Ultra Lead 1: gain 3 and volume 6
Treble: 2
Middle: 4
Bass: 4
Presence: 2
Resonance: 5
Tone shift: out


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Finnster said:


> I find the bottom end to be a bit flubby or farty.....are those words?? Lol
> 
> Anyway. Mine has M65 Creamback and C19 mod.
> 
> Would KT77's be an improvement for a tighter bottom end?
> 
> I generally run these settings:
> 
> Lead 1 and Crunch mode:
> 
> Crunch: gain 7 and volume 8
> Ultra Lead 1: gain 3 and volume 6
> Treble: 2
> Middle: 4
> Bass: 4
> Presence: 2
> Resonance: 5
> Tone shift: out




Try a pair of JJ E34L, also I had the Creamback 65 and though its a nice speaker its low end can be a bit flabby. The V-type I use stays nice and tight.


----------



## Micky

If you have the original OEM finals, then yes, new tubes will tighten up the lows.
JJ's, or my favorite, TAD's, will do wonders!


----------



## Finnster

J.LaGrassa said:


> Try a pair of JJ E34L, also I had the Creamback 65 and though its a nice speaker its low end can be a bit flabby. The V-type I use stays nice and tight.



What did you bias the "L's" at?


----------



## Micky

Well, it was next to last day of the holiday break for me, and I decided it was amp surgery time. With the test bench somewhat cleared off it was time to get to work...

I have had the new OT for the DSL40c for a while now, waiting for time to get it installed. (ClassicTone #18025)
Not knowing really what to expect, I was a little reluctant to swap it out as I have the 40c fine-tuned to exactly where I like it. No real upgrade was 'necessary' but I wanted to finalize the amp so I could finally dial it in and work on another I have a problem with...

Anyway, the OT upgrade is rather straightforward, remove the old one, drill a couple holes, and then install the new one. Thing is, it is never quite that easy...

Here is a photo comparison of the old OT vs. the new ClassicTone OT. You can see the original OEM OT is shorter and a bit fatter than the new one, you need to take this into consideration, especially if you have side handles installed in the cab...











The mounting brackets (feet) are the same width as the original, but the depth is shorter and will not fit the original mounting holes. To upgrade the OT you will need to drill 2 mounting holes for the feet, as well as a hole for a grommet to pass the output wires thru. Here you can see the drilled chassis ready to mount the grommet and OT:






Installation is straightforward, mount the OT, install a grommet and pass the wires thru. The output wires need to be trimmed and have spade lugs installed, I chose to put some heat shrink on the connectors although it may not be necessary. Also, this OT has a 4-ohm output, I thought about installing a switch for the 16-ohm jack, but then I thought about how often I run a 4-ohm load. (never) I put a spade lug on the wire anyway, if I wanted to use a 4-ohm output for whatever reason, I could pull the chassis and plug it in...

The primaries on this upgrade OT are where I ran into problems. Here is the final OT wiring guide:

OEM OT Wire To: ClassicTone OT
Grey CT1 White
Red V4 Red
Brn V3 Blue

The outputs are clearly labeled Purple=16-ohm, Orange=8-ohm, Black=Common and Yellow=4-ohm.

The inputs are marked clear enough, but as always, there is a 50/50 chance you will wire them in reverse. Since no one has clearly stated where each wire goes, I will do it here (above). In typical fashion, I initially connected them in reverse but failed to notice it until I got everything back together, even after testing things.

Generally I will never admit things like this, (obvious mistakes) but not knowing where to wire the primaries, there was a 50% chance I would get it right. Also a 50% chance I would get it wrong... Anyway I got it wired up OK, put everything in it's place and fired it up. Sounded great. I immediately notice a lot of clean headroom, and much more accurate bass response. So I put it all back together and moved it back downstairs, thinking I was finished...

Little did I realize I was testing it in triode mode (1/2 power) where the screen grids are tied to the plates of the tubes. When I switched to full power, the grids (G2) are disconnected from the plates and tied together, which created a horrible squeal when I took it off standby. Right then and there I knew I had the primaries reversed.

So a little more corrective surgery the day after remedied the situation. Blue wire soldered to the output of V3, red wire soldered to the output of V4. Both triode as well as pentode mode working fine now. Here is a shot of the installed OT:






Observations after the upgrade were that the clean is now ultra-clean, with the reverb very nice. Almost Fender clean... Crunch is more well defined, tighter bass and more creamy smooth distortion. Even more so in triode mode, as a matter of fact, everything sounds so much better in triode mode. Ultra channels sound deeper, and less harsh, I still can't seem to ever get the gain higher than 4 or so. I just don't need all that gain.

I am thinking I like triode (1/2 power) mode a lot more now, I seem to have more headroom at higher volumes and can turn up the gain more than I could before and still get the same crunch. I will still need to dial it in a bit more, especially if I connect it to a 4X12 at some point. But anyway, I have at least finished this amp for the time being, and I really need to concentrate on playing it more.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Finnster said:


> What did you bias the "L's" at?



37mA


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> Well, it was next to last day of the holiday break for me, and I decided it was amp surgery time. With the test bench somewhat cleared off it was time to get to work...
> 
> SNIP!



Good job, Micky! I hope it wasn't cranked when you flipped it over to pentode and got the squeal...

It'd be nice if these aftermarket guys would offer a few pre-drilled plates that we could use to match holes up instead of having to drill for an off-sized base.

Today was the first day in a month that I did not have to be somewhere. I slept in and am spending the day watching Dexter DVD's. I was supposed to have most of the last week off but instead filled in for someone with an emergency. The choke isn't critical but it does keep whispering my name... -Rod-


----------



## dougb256

J.LaGrassa said:


> I had the Creamback 65 and though its a nice speaker its low end can be a bit flabby. The V-type I use stays nice and tight.


I like tight bottom end *ahem*, so I ordered the V-type.


----------



## Micky

USAPatriot said:


> Good job, Micky! I hope it wasn't cranked when you flipped it over to pentode and got the squeal...
> 
> It'd be nice if these aftermarket guys would offer a few pre-drilled plates that we could use to match holes up instead of having to drill for an off-sized base.
> 
> Today was the first day in a month that I did not have to be somewhere. I slept in and am spending the day watching Dexter DVD's. I was supposed to have most of the last week off but instead filled in for someone with an emergency. The choke isn't critical but it does keep whispering my name... -Rod-



I've got NetFlix and all the Dexter episodes are there. Wish I had more time for TV. Breaking Bad is there as well. Somebody said Trailer Park Boys is hi-def now too...

I think the upgrade OT made the triode half-power mode come alive. I haven't had much time because of work (you know how it is...) as well as holidays, but initially I think the crunch and growl is sooooo much sweeter now.

With the amp modded out I think it is time for more playing...


----------



## USAPatriot

Hey Micky, with the larger transformer, did you have any issues getting the chassis back in? Hell, mine just barely clears the lip for the back cover. I have to either wiggle it through or just yank it out. I REALLY should trim that lip back a bit. -Rod-


----------



## Micky

Yes. It just barely clears the side handles.

What! Yours doesn't have side handles?

I wish I could find my luggage scale, I will bet this bitch weighs 60 pounds now...


----------



## MarshallDog

Has anyone tried KT77's in this amp. I know it will yield more clean headroom but I am curious what other experiences are if you have tried it and if it is possible to describe the tonal difference.

Also, would it be possible to install 6550's in this amp? I realize the bias resistor may need to be increased but would any other changes need to be done and would the amp handle the 6550's?

Thanks.


----------



## DSMer

MarshallDog said:


> Has anyone tried KT77's in this amp. I know it will yield more clean headroom but I am curious what other experiences are if you have tried it and if it is possible to describe the tonal difference.
> 
> Also, would it be possible to install 6550's in this amp? I realize the bias resistor may need to be increased but would any other changes need to be done and would the amp handle the 6550's?
> 
> Thanks.



Hey Marshall Dog, I have tried Genalex Gold Lion KT77. What I've notice is extended highs and bottom end. Brittle but not crunchy, bassy but not punchy. It wasn't that pleasing to my ear. Too hifi to me. GL KT77's sound great on my 6100 but not on the DSL40, don't really know why!!! 

EL34 Winged =C= is my choice for DSL40. Mullard XF2's....sweeeet!!!

My EVH 5150III kills with RI GL KT66.


----------



## MarshallDog

DSMer said:


> Hey Marshall Dog, I have tried Genalex Gold Lion KT77. What I've notice is extended highs and bottom end. Brittle but not crunchy, bassy but not punchy. It wasn't that pleasing to my ear. Too hifi to me. GL KT77's sound great on my 6100 but not on the DSL40, don't really know why!!!
> 
> EL34 Winged =C= is my choice for DSL40. Mullard XF2's....sweeeet!!!
> 
> My EVH 5150III kills with RI GL KT66.



Thanks for the great info, based on this I think I will stay away from them for this amp seeing as you guided me in the right direction when changing out the caps in this amp a few months back


----------



## Micky

MarshallDog said:


> Has anyone tried KT77's in this amp. I know it will yield more clean headroom but I am curious what other experiences are if you have tried it and if it is possible to describe the tonal difference.
> 
> Also, would it be possible to install 6550's in this amp? I realize the bias resistor may need to be increased but would any other changes need to be done and would the amp handle the 6550's?
> 
> Thanks.


This is a great question, and certainly I think it needs more investigation.
I wish I had a greater stash of tubes, as I have wondered this as well.
Being kinda knowledgeable about this amp tends to make me want to experiment, but I am just like everyone else, and a pair of tubes just doesn't grow on or under trees...

If someone would like me to test a pair I could certainly entertain that...
As long as they sent them along to me!


----------



## USAPatriot

I don't recall if this is the right thread or not, but whatever. Over the last 3 days my wall voltage has varied from 124.4 to 122.1. There's about a 1.5V difference between the socket I tested from upstairs and the one I tested from downstairs. Downstairs is always lower than upstairs. I sent a message to the utility company and asked them to check the voltage at the meter. It's inconsistent, for sure. Maybe they'll feel bad for me and hand me a variac   -Rod-


----------



## flyfish-mt

First off, let me commend you folks for starting and maintaining this great thread....Just a TON of useful information and I only got to page 10!!!

Well, I just picked one up from Sweetwater yesterday.....Couldn't pass up the deal my rep gave me. I got it with the Creamback speaker option and also asked for the original Seventy 80 which he gladly included. I haven't had the opportunity to put it through all the paces yet but will do so this weekend. So far it sounds really nice!

I am running a Carbon Copy, CE-3 and GE-7 through the effects loop and a CS-2 on the front end. I've played my 13' Trad w/ Dimarzio 36's and my 80' LP Custom w/ T-tops through it and they both sounded great. Still need to give my Strat a stab. This is my 4th Marshall as I have always been kinda' a Fender Deluxe Reverb/Twin Reverb guy over the past 35 years of playing. I've owned a Jubilee 2554, DSL15H, SL5 in the past and now this guy. Great sounding amp and it is no doubt the most versatile Marshall I have owned to date. 

.........Now, back to page 11


----------



## rpinon69

flyfish-mt said:


> First off, let me commend you folks for starting and maintaining this great thread....Just a TON of useful information and I only got to page 10!!!
> 
> Well, I just picked one up from Sweetwater yesterday.....Couldn't pass up the deal my rep gave me. I got it with the Creamback speaker option and also asked for the original Seventy 80 which he gladly included. I haven't had the opportunity to put it through all the paces yet but will do so this weekend. So far it sounds really nice!
> 
> I am running a Carbon Copy, CE-3 and GE-7 through the effects loop and a CS-2 on the front end. I've played my 13' Trad w/ Dimarzio 36's and my 80' LP Custom w/ T-tops through it and they both sounded great. Still need to give my Strat a stab. This is my 4th Marshall as I have always been kinda' a Fender Deluxe Reverb/Twin Reverb guy over the past 35 years of playing. I've owned a Jubilee 2554, DSL15H, SL5 in the past and know this guy. Great sounding amp and it is no doubt the most versatile Marshall I have owned to date.
> 
> .........Now, back to page 11



Welcome!

I have to agree! Love this thread great information it's really what sealed the deal for me, I have been loving my DSL40 for the last 6 months.


----------



## flyfish-mt

I was a bit skeptical reading talk about it not being made in the UK. I can't imagine the quality control is that much better?? I'll check in periodically with any useful information.


----------



## flyfish-mt

I did want to ask a question to all you DSL40 gurus. I have read in multiple posts that the factory bias isn't always correct and would like to check mine out. I do have an older Fluke 79 multimeter and some (very little) experience with light electronics......probably enough to shock the piss outta' me! Anyway, is there a tutorial that explains this process with pictures (I'm a visual guy)? I have read that the left trim pot controls the right valve and vise versa but that's about all I know about this process.


----------



## Len

flyfish-mt said:


> I did want to ask a question to all you DSL40 gurus. I have read in multiple posts that the factory bias isn't always correct and would like to check mine out. I do have an older Fluke 79 multimeter and some (very little) experience with light electronics......probably enough to shock the piss outta' me! Anyway, is there a tutorial that explains this process with pictures (I'm a visual guy)? I have read that the left trim pot controls the right valve and vise versa but that's about all I know about this process.



Look earlier in this thread. You can't get shocked from the bias probe points.


----------



## Len

Quick question (I need this info but I'm not near my amp). 

What's the footswitch polarity for the reverb and channel select? 

Tip shorted for Ultra channel? Ring shorted for reverb off?


----------



## Micky

Len said:


> Look earlier in this thread. You can't get shocked from the bias probe points.



Set the meter to millivolts DC, center pin is ground, left pin is right trimpot, and right pin is left trimpot.

First page of this thread.


----------



## MarshallDog

Micky said:


> This is a great question, and certainly I think it needs more investigation.
> I wish I had a greater stash of tubes, as I have wondered this as well.
> Being kinda knowledgeable about this amp tends to make me want to experiment, but I am just like everyone else, and a pair of tubes just doesn't grow on or under trees...
> 
> If someone would like me to test a pair I could certainly entertain that...
> As long as they sent them along to me!



Do you think it is possible to install 6550's in her and if so any idea of what it would take? I am sure the bias resistor at a min would need to be changed???


----------



## Micky

I would have no way to tell until I got a pair of those tubes and actually installed them to see what was needed. Impossible to tell at this point, ans the range is quite unknown to me until I can actually try to bias a pair...

Still waiting for people to send me tubes to answer this one!


----------



## solarburn

Staying on the Green clean amp gain dimed boosted with my Marvel Drive and using my strat. The pedal is set bordering on fuzz at full throttle(guitar volume) when I hit power chords so that was an intentional loose flubby sound. 

I work through my pups making adjustments with the tone pots. No channel switching or pedal variations. It's long but I think I found some different tones just with guitar adjustments.

I do have the amp at volume...noon at 20 watts. My phone is recording it from down the hallway. I would blow the phone mic if I put it where I usually do in the same room.

It's Friday so I felt like messing around. Check the variations out if you like.

[ame]www.YouTube.com/watch?v=cZlg-mILfxg[/ame]


----------



## MarshallDog

Micky said:


> I would have no way to tell until I got a pair of those tubes and actually installed them to see what was needed. Impossible to tell at this point, ans the range is quite unknown to me until I can actually try to bias a pair...
> 
> Still waiting for people to send me tubes to answer this one!



If I send you a set would you be willing??


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

USAPatriot said:


> I don't recall if this is the right thread or not, but whatever. Over the last 3 days my wall voltage has varied from 124.4 to 122.1. There's about a 1.5V difference between the socket I tested from upstairs and the one I tested from downstairs. Downstairs is always lower than upstairs. I sent a message to the utility company and asked them to check the voltage at the meter. It's inconsistent, for sure. Maybe they'll feel bad for me and hand me a variac   -Rod-



I just measured the voltage at our house today. It was 122.5 downstairs and 123.1 upstairs. These are well within + - 5% so it's all good.


----------



## DSMer

MarshallDog said:


> Do you think it is possible to install 6550's in her and if so any idea of what it would take? I am sure the bias resistor at a min would need to be changed???



Bias resistor would definitely need to be changed. Out of curiosity I would like to do tube swap myself.


----------



## USAPatriot

Re the 6550's, TD sent me a pair of 6CA7's that had been matched at 85, despite me telling them I was shooting for 38, and they were going into a DSL40C. This set wouldn't bias below about 60mv and were as high as 110 at one point, which had me sweating bullets. Judging from your chart, the 6550's may slip right in, but I have no idea what stresses they might put on other components. 
I'll be watching the conversation, for sure. -Rod-


----------



## Micky

MarshallDog said:


> If I send you a set would you be willing??



Yup. I wouldn't get to it until the end of the year (Dec. 29-30 or so) but I wanna find out what would be required...


----------



## MarshallDog

USAPatriot said:


> Re the 6550's, TD sent me a pair of 6CA7's that had been matched at 85, despite me telling them I was shooting for 38, and they were going into a DSL40C. This set wouldn't bias below about 60mv and were as high as 110 at one point, which had me sweating bullets. Judging from your chart, the 6550's may slip right in, but I have no idea what stresses they might put on other components.
> I'll be watching the conversation, for sure. -Rod-



Well, here's my thinking, I have two JMP's that I converted to EL34's buy lowering the bias resistor and all is fine. So, I figure I would need to increase the bias resistor to go from EL34's to 6550's in this amp and all should be fine. Doesn't that make sense? One would think the other components should be fine??


----------



## flyfish-mt

I bought the DSL40C Creamback combo from Sweetwater and had my rep send me the original speaker (Celestion 70/80) for grins. I swapped out the creamback for the 70/80 before turning it on with the intent of selling the creamback to recoupe some $$. Well, I could not resist and put the creamback back in and let me tell you.......HUGE difference!

The 70/80 really wasn't a bad speaker but it did have a loose low end and lacked the midrange spank. However, the highs weren't bad and had a nice top end sizzle it but it just sounded scooped to me. So glad I came to my senses as I would have always wondered what the creamback would have sounded like after selling it.


----------



## Micky

Actually the 70/80 sounds pretty good in a closed-back cabinet.
Heard one over the weekend while I was away at a conference (Marshall MX212) and was pleasantly surprised.

If I could get a couple real cheap, I would build a custom cab with them!


----------



## flyfish-mt

No doubt the 80/70 has a certain flavor and I think it's a very capable speaker. If I were to ever add an extension cabinet I would seriously consider adding a 70/80 mixed with the creamback, I think that would be a nice combination.


----------



## USAPatriot

MarshallDog said:


> Well, here's my thinking, I have two JMP's that I converted to EL34's buy lowering the bias resistor and all is fine. So, I figure I would need to increase the bias resistor to go from EL34's to 6550's in this amp and all should be fine. Doesn't that make sense? One would think the other components should be fine??



I don't think I'm qualified to answer, M-Dog. My thinking, based on observing how the system reacts to different tubes, is that the voltage at Pin3 is what the tubes are pulling, not what the transformer is pushing. The tubes may or may not want more than the transformer and other components can deliver or handle. 25W vs 35W is about a 30% boost, not huge according to the universe but quite a bit more than Marshall intended, and even then, Marshall apparently throttled the EL's down to 20W apiece or 40 total. That or they just did a marketing trick and called a 50w amp a 40w amp.

You may be able to just plug the 6550's in. The chart isn't that far off, one tube versus the other. The big question is how much voltage they are going to want. Changing the resistor won't hurt it, for sure.

I am more than willing to be slapped down and corrected. I'm here to learn on this as well...like I said, I'll definitely be watching this conversation! -Rod-


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> Actually the 70/80 sounds pretty good in a closed-back cabinet.
> Heard one over the weekend while I was away at a conference (Marshall MX212) and was pleasantly surprised.
> 
> If I could get a couple real cheap, I would build a custom cab with them!



I have a more-or-less new 70/80 you could have, Micky. Maybe a trade for some tubes or something else useful? It would ship in the box my V-30 came in. -Rod-


----------



## ivieleague

Hi everyone, I am new here and have noob question. I just picked up the DSL40C and have been playing around with it for a few days. This is my first tube amp so I do not know a lot about them. My question is when I adjust the presence, resonance, and reverb I can barely tell if a difference. I have read that the reverb is not great on these, but I am not sure about the other two. Should they make a huge difference? 
I am playing it with the volume at a little over one, no pedals, and playing a Les Paul with 59 tribute pups.


----------



## Micky

You won't notice much difference on the Presence (highs) or Resonance (lows) until you get the volume up a bit. And the reverb is not as strong as on some other amps, you will notice it most on Classic Clean.

Oh - And welcome. Many new members formally introduce themselves in the Member Introduction section where they tell us a little about themselves.


----------



## ivieleague

Thanks a lot! I haven't really got to crank it yet because it makes the wife mad and I live in a duplex. BTW, so far I am really liking this amp, blows my little fender mustang away. I will head over there and introduce myself.


----------



## Liquor

Has anyone bought a mx212 yet to put the DSL40c on top of yet, would like to see some photos if there are some floating around. I'm torn between a 112 or 212 cab as the DSL is in between these sizes. Would probably be too big for a custom 112 cab meaning maybe a too boxy sound I guess. Is the difference really that much from a 112 cab and a 212 cab sound with my DSL speaker engaged also?


----------



## Micky

We are all waiting for you to get one and do a proper review here.

I had a chance to hear one over the weekend, (MX212) and it sounded great with a JVM on top... It is the only cab still available that seems to match the DSL40c.

And yes, it DOES make that big a difference playing the DSL40c thru an external cab. Everything sounds bigger and better!


----------



## bman

It's loaded w/ 70/80 speakers which is what the combo comes w/. I can't imagine it being much of an upgrade, just louder. Save your bucks and buy a better Marshall 2x12 cab. That's my 2 cents.


----------



## Liquor

Yeah I'm aware what the mx212 is loaded with and also would have to change speakers and wiring. Today I changed the 70/80 in the combo to a celestion V30. Couldn't have it loud yet and new speaker, so not broken in but the change it seems isn't ground breaking, as the stock 70/80 was well worn in. The V30 seems to have better low end though and seems a bit tighter but will have to wait till that's broken in. I've enquired about a custom 1x12 cab to be made to match the DSL40c as don't think the 2x12 won't make that much difference over a 1x12 extension cab. Also the added costs of extra speakers etc. The guy I spoke to said a little bigger 1x12 will give me bigger sound anyhow with another V30 inside and closed back plus the open back of the amp. He said it wouldn't be too "boomy" also having a little bit larger custom 1x12 so guessed a 2x12 wouldn't make that much difference. Won't have the cab made till the new year so will post photos then.


----------



## wolfpack

What type of tool is everyone using to adjust the bias pot ?
Is a ceramic anti-static screwdriver the best choice ?


----------



## Micky

If I can find it, I usually use a small plastic slug tuning tool.
If not a small phillips screwdriver.


----------



## USAPatriot

wolfpack said:


> What type of tool is everyone using to adjust the bias pot ?
> Is a ceramic anti-static screwdriver the best choice ?



Plastic or ceramic is safest, I guess, but I just use a chrome handled screwdriver from an eyeglass set. There's nothing in the immediate area to be concerned about unless you're hammered or something... lol. -Rod-


----------



## Duffy49

Avatar makes some great inexpensive real baltic birch plywood cabinets loaded with the speakers that you desire. I bought one with two Swamp Thangs in it, the "Vintage" style one and it is an awesome cab - real plywood. Why mess with MDF, etc.?

Mine is all black including black "Avatar" lettering, has the bluesbreaker style valence in the front, all black and black grill cloth. It is accentuated with gold piping around the valence and the grill cloth. Very classic looking cabinet. All for 430+/-, with free shipping.


----------



## Skylarkpilot

If you're in Europe, Thomann of Germany do a Harley Benton 2x12 loaded with Vintage 30's for about the same price as you can buy the speakers alone €195 which is about £153 just now (that's about $240 for our cousins). Over two hundred Euro and they ship free so worth adding some strings. 
It's good build quality (heavy) and sounds absolutely great with the DSL40. Metal side handles and switching on the back plate. What's not to love ?
Quick note....just checked their site, for forty bucks they ship to the States !


----------



## Liquor

Thanks guys, I was aware of avatar and the others but I'm in northern Australia which complicates things including shipping. There is one or maybe 2 guys in my city that build cabs but they have shut for Christmas already and 1 guy said it takes 5 weeks??? So wouldn't receive cab till start of February. It's going to be a long wait or will still be searching for other options. I'm pretty sure a ply 1x12 custom to fit my DSL40c will be a better choice than a ply 2x12 as the difference won't be that much as I will have the combo speaker engaged also.


----------



## lordquilton

Liquor- this guy is near Brisbane. I haven't bought one, and I don't know if he knocks off for Christmas, but it says he ships within 20 working days after receiving payment. I guess the freight could be a deal breaker.

Dumble Style 1 X 12" Custom Crafted Speaker Cabinet Unloaded | eBay

The dimensions are just about right.
DSL 40C- (W x H x D) 620 x 490 x 252
ebay cab- 610 x 510 x 300


----------



## Liquor

Thanks lordquilton, yeah that's the guy I was talking about. He hasn't put his info on his ebay page that he is going away. A bit frustrating but I spoke to him about a custom cabinet to match DSL40c and a closed back would be approx. $379 in the other black style 1x12 he has advertised. It would be built to my specs but when I spoke to him a few days ago he said they have closed for Christmas. It's only the start of December....... also he told me he is going to NAMM show and will be away for the month of January and that the earliest I could order would be start of January and wouldn't receive cab until February which makes it a 7 week wait. I'll have to wait I guess and hope it's worth it but will post photos and review when it's done. Any suggestions what I should load it with as I have a celestion V30 in the DLS40c at the moment, another V30? or something different to complement what I have in the combo.


----------



## lordquilton

Well, I've never done speaker mixing myself. But from what I've read the V30 tends to dominate unless you pair it with something with a similar kind of "nasty". 
Like the Celestion V-Type is well thought of in this kind of amplifier, but might be a little too sweet to pair with a V30?
The G12H-30 70th Anniversary seems popular in a 2x12 with V30.
If it were me I'd be tempted to give a Creamback G12-H75 a run in there. 

Classic - G12H-75 Creamback - Celestion - Guitar, Bass & Pro Audio Speakers

One thing to consider is the sensitivity ratings. The V30 is rated 100dB, so you probably don't want to go any lower than 98dB for the speaker you want to pair with it.


----------



## flyfish-mt

Short update. After having the 40C for a week and some tinkering around time, I've come to the conclusion that this amp is VERY versatile. I love the green channel with my SD-1 on the front end which adds a nice kick at lower volumes.....sounds great. 

I haven't done any mods as of yet and not sure if I will as the Creamback really tamed the treble and gave me a nice smooth mid hump. I'm running a GE-7 in the loop for the red channel so I can shape it bit more to my liking. I sold a Jubilee 2554 years ago and always missed it until know. Sure, the Jub was voiced a bit different but I can get pretty damn close with this amp.


----------



## 3dognate

I picked up a used DSL40C last week off eBay. It was advertised with a bit of cabinet damage which didn't look too bad.. It was way worse. But the amp sounded pretty bad ass... so I clamped and glued the cab back to a stable condition and ordered a G12H-75 Creamback. Man that really woke the amp up. Nice... very happy with how it sounds. I took it to rehearsal and it did great there too. 
So as for the cabinet... I am making a replacement cab out of 3/4" marine plywood. The MDF cab that the DSL40C comes with is crap... just crap. If Marshall had done a Ply cab and a Vintage 30 in these amps they would not be able to produce enough of them fast enough.

I should have the new cabinet covered and guts ported over this weekend. I'll post pics when it is finished.

Now.... one thing I'd like to see on this amp that they left out... an "overall Master Volume" (Or Effects Loop return Level)... anyone got any thoughts on this item? I've not seen a schematic floating around yet for it.


----------



## Micky

Yeah, once the cabs get crushed there is not much hope.
The ply cab should be lighter.
Please be sure to post photos here so everyone can enjoy your new amp!

OH - Many members formally introduce themselves in the Member Introductions section where you can tell us all a little about yourself. Welcome aboard!


----------



## MarshallDog

3dognate said:


> I picked up a used DSL40C last week off eBay. It was advertised with a bit of cabinet damage which didn't look too bad.. It was way worse. But the amp sounded pretty bad ass... so I clamped and glued the cab back to a stable condition and ordered a G12H-75 Creamback. Man that really woke the amp up. Nice... very happy with how it sounds. I took it to rehearsal and it did great there too.
> So as for the cabinet... I am making a replacement cab out of 3/4" marine plywood. The MDF cab that the DSL40C comes with is crap... just crap. If Marshall had done a Ply cab and a Vintage 30 in these amps they would not be able to produce enough of them fast enough.
> 
> I should have the new cabinet covered and guts ported over this weekend. I'll post pics when it is finished.
> 
> Now.... one thing I'd like to see on this amp that they left out... an "overall Master Volume" (Or Effects Loop return Level)... anyone got any thoughts on this item? I've not seen a schematic floating around yet for it.



+1 on the Creambacks....way back when I got mine the first thing I did was put the G12M 65W creamy in it and its been there ever sense. Then, I find out SweetWater is selling them with the creamy already in it 6 months to a year down the road


----------



## USAPatriot

3dognate said:


> [SNIP]
> 
> Now.... one thing I'd like to see on this amp that they left out... an "overall Master Volume" (Or Effects Loop return Level)... anyone got any thoughts on this item? I've not seen a schematic floating around yet for it.



Interesting idea. I've got the schematics and assume that the two volume pots could be blended into one, but you'd lose that functionality. When I play Green it's usually softer than Red, which would cause hemorrhages in my ears if I unplugged the attenuator. So the two volume pots have a valid use, at least for me. The FX level doesn't seem to be much of an issue either since the amp is a combo. In a general sense, people using combos aren't mixing pedals and rack effects so Marshall rightfully assumes that most of it's users will be using pedals. Still, it should be an easy fix for most of the modders here...though not me. I can do it so long as someone tells me what I need to do and with what parts. I failed the "Electronics for Dummies" class  -Rod-


----------



## 3dognate

USAPatriot said:


> Interesting idea. I've got the schematics and assume that the two volume pots could be blended into one, but you'd lose that functionality. When I play Green it's usually softer than Red, which would cause hemorrhages in my ears if I unplugged the attenuator. So the two volume pots have a valid use, at least for me. The FX level doesn't seem to be much of an issue either since the amp is a combo. In a general sense, people using combos aren't mixing pedals and rack effects so Marshall rightfully assumes that most of it's users will be using pedals. Still, it should be an easy fix for most of the modders here...though not me. I can do it so long as someone tells me what I need to do and with what parts. I failed the "Electronics for Dummies" class  -Rod-



No... leave the two channel masters. Just add a master after the effects loop. Lots of amps do this, it's really just an effects return level control / overall master volume... same thing. My H&K Grand Meister does this. I can figure it out probably... Very handy when you run something directly into the effects return.


----------



## Micky

I use a GE-7 in the loop sometimes and it can work like that...


----------



## Swede

Hey Liquor, talk to John H. he is the member from Australia that helped me with my 1x12 cab


----------



## Len

3dognate said:


> Now.... one thing I'd like to see on this amp that they left out... an "overall Master Volume" (Or Effects Loop return Level)... anyone got any thoughts on this item? I've not seen a schematic floating around yet for it.



I use an Unleash to get that single volume, and solo boosting.


----------



## 3dognate

Len said:


> I use an Unleash to get that single volume, and solo boosting.



Those cost more than I paid for my DSL40C....  (But it is a little bit of a cool product too...)
I


----------



## jimmyjames

I recommend getting a good attenuator. One with variable resistance settings for both input and output. Get those power tubes earning their keep and use it with anything else the future brings


----------



## USAPatriot

So where are we with someone trying 6550's in their 40C? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? 
I'd give it a shot but can't afford a set of tubes any time soon. -Rod-


----------



## MarshallDog

USAPatriot said:


> So where are we with someone trying 6550's in their 40C? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?
> I'd give it a shot but can't afford a set of tubes any time soon. -Rod-



I want to try it and will buy the tubes but I have been wondering about:
1. Which two bias resistors need to be changed seeing as there are two bias pots and anyone have any idea on what value to try.
2. Any other components that need to be changed?
3. What 6550's are recommended, JJ's, Tung-Sol's, I'm not interested in paying 100 bucks a piece for =C=! Ting-Sols seem to have the best review at The Tube Store.

It appears there it takes a bit to change these tubes so I am really thinking about it before I decided to the plung, it's not a quick switch back.


----------



## 3dognate

MarshallDog said:


> I want to try it and will buy the tubes but I have been wondering about:
> 1. Which two bias resistors need to be changed seeing as there are two bias pots and anyone have any idea on what value to try.
> 2. Any other components that need to be changed?
> 3. What 6550's are recommended, JJ's, Tung-Sol's, I'm not interested in paying 100 bucks a piece for =C=! Ting-Sols seem to have the best review at The Tube Store.
> 
> It appears there is a bit tomt yang these tubes so I am really thinking about it before I decided to the plung, it's not a quick switch back.



You might need to change the negative feedback resistor to a more appropriate value.


----------



## 50WPLEXI

Thinking about changing the stock EL34's that came with my DSL 40C. I just checked the stock BIAS settings. Looks like I'm getting 25.0ma for one side, 27.5 for the other. 

By reading through this thread looks like you all are setting the BIAS between 36-38ma. Does Marshall just set the BIAS this cold from the factory?

I know it saves on tube life, but just wanted to hear what you all have to say, thanks.


----------



## MarshallDog

50WPLEXI said:


> Thinking about changing the stock EL34's that came with my DSL 40C. I just checked the stock BIAS settings. Looks like I'm getting 25.0ma for one side, 27.5 for the other.
> 
> By reading through this thread looks like you all are setting the BIAS between 36-38ma. Does Marshall just set the BIAS this cold from the factory?
> 
> I know it saves on tube life, but just wanted to hear what you all have to say, thanks.



I set mine at 70% max dissipation and to do that you need to measure the plate voltage and use the good old formula P=IV to ensure the highest bias current setting without exceeding 70% power dissipation. A bias mA setting value without the voltage means nothing to me...


----------



## MarshallDog

3dognate said:


> You might need to change the negative feedback resistor to a more appropriate value.



Would you say lower? If so, I have already lowered mine to 47K and love the tone now


----------



## 50WPLEXI

MarshallDog said:


> I set mine at 70% max dissipation and to do that you need to measure the plate voltage and use the good old formula P=IV to ensure the highest bias current setting without exceeding 70% power dissipation. A bias mA setting value without the voltage means nothing to me...



I'll check on the plate voltage. But doesn't that seem low for a BIAS setting?


----------



## MarshallDog

50WPLEXI said:


> I'll check on the plate voltage. But doesn't that seem low for a BIAS setting?



Not if the plate voltage is high but i do believe amp mfgs set the bias low to make the tubes last longer getting them past the warranty period.


----------



## Mesa100w

I have a Marshall DSL 40 c,I did the c19 mod,and upgraded the speaker with an EV SRO 12,the gain channel sounds great now,but just after the warranty expired the clean channel is all fuzzy and the output is low,does anyone know of the whereabouts of a schematic for this amp? I used to have an older 50 watt plexie head back in the "day" when you could buy a used one for $400...I wanted to get back into the Marshall sound again but I'm somewhat letdown,if anyone could be of help please let Me know...

Thanks


----------



## USAPatriot

MarshallDog said:


> I want to try it and will buy the tubes but I have been wondering about:
> 1. Which two bias resistors need to be changed seeing as there are two bias pots and anyone have any idea on what value to try.
> 2. Any other components that need to be changed?
> 3. What 6550's are recommended, JJ's, Tung-Sol's, I'm not interested in paying 100 bucks a piece for =C=! Ting-Sols seem to have the best review at The Tube Store.
> 
> It appears there it takes a bit to change these tubes so I am really thinking about it before I decided to the plung, it's not a quick switch back.



One thing to note is the different functionality of the 6550 versus the EL34's and 6CA7's. The stock EL34 tubes use Pin 1 as a suppressor. My guess is that this is what allows them to be switched between Triode and Pentode modes. (If I'm wrong, someone please correct me) 
The 6550's Pin1 seems to be unused, at least according to the diagram I looked at last night. Other than that they seem to be alike. I'll try to post an A/B of the specs here later today. 

As for the cost, at Tube Depot, the EH6550's are 10 bucks more than the EH-EL34B's. I did not look at other brands. On the plus side, the photo of the EH6550 showed a bias point of 40, which is in the wheelhouse for the 40C, if a tad hot. I'm sure it could be turned down. -Rod-


----------



## MarshallDog

USAPatriot said:


> One thing to note is the different functionality of the 6550 versus the EL34's and 6CA7's. The stock EL34 tubes use Pin 1 as a suppressor. My guess is that this is what allows them to be switched between Tetrode and Pentode modes. (If I'm wrong, someone please correct me)
> The 6550's Pin1 seems to be unused, at least according to the diagram I looked at last night. Other than that they seem to be alike. I'll try to post an A/B of the specs here later today.
> 
> As for the cost, at Tube Depot, the EH6550's are 10 bucks more than the EH-EL34B's. I did not look at other brands. On the plus side, the photo of the EH6550 showed a bias point of 40, which is in the wheelhouse for the 40C, if a tad hot. I'm sure it could be turned down. -Rod-



Good point about the pentode mode, that slipped my mind, maybe someone else can chime in and help clarify/verify this???


----------



## USAPatriot

OOPS! I had to edit my previous post as it is TRIODE (not Tetrode) and Pentode modes. Sorry.  -Rod-


----------



## wolfpack

Looking for help to understand biasing this amp with my compu-bias.
It displays plate voltage as Vp, cathode current as ik & wattage as W.
I have seen others here using multi-meters recommend around 38mv as a good range with the stock Marshall or JJ EL-34L tubes.
What is the mv reading providing info for ?
Is that for cathode current (ik) ?

I've emailed the manufacturer & am waiting for a response, but thought I would try here as well.

Thanks


----------



## mickeydg5

wolfpack said:


> Looking for help to understand biasing this amp with my compu-bias.
> It displays plate voltage as Vp, cathode current as ik & wattage as W.
> I have seen others here using multi-meters recommend around 38mv as a good range with the stock Marshall or JJ EL-34L tubes.
> What is the mv reading providing info for ?
> Is that for cathode current (ik) ?
> 
> I've emailed the manufacturer & am waiting for a response, but thought I would try here as well.
> 
> Thanks


 Yes, the mV reading converts directly to mA when measured across a precision 1 ohm cathode resistor. That is the cathode current "Ik".


----------



## Micky

The DSL40c has built-in resistors for setting the bias.
When you read the millivolts across these resistors, it is a direct correlation to bias current. i.e. 35mv reading results in 35ma bias current.

In order to read current directly, one must interrupt the circuit and place a current meter in series. By using the bias shunt resistors, you eliminate that need and can bias the power tubes in a much safer fashion.

The very first page of this thread describes the process to set bias using only a multi-meter.

Here is a wiki describing the use of a shunt:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shunt_(electrical)
Scroll down to the last part.

A 1-ohm resistor as a shunt has a direct 1:1 relationship (correlation) to the amount of current being passed thru it. If the voltage drop (difference) across the resistor is 35mv, then 35ma of current is going thru the resistor. If you were using a 10-ohm resistor, you would measure 350mv across the resistor to achieve the same 35ma current load.

Marshall uses these resistors to provide a much safer method to set the bias, at the test points you have a very low voltage (in reference to ground) preventing potential electrical hazards. There is no need to interrupt the circuit to measure this value, by using a bias 'probe' or other type of device. There is no need to remove tubes and introduce any danger of electrocution with the shunt resistor method Marshall provides.

If you DO use some sort of other device, extreme care must be taken to insure the manufacturers instructions are followed TO THE LETTER and that you turn off all power BEFORE connecting or disconnecting the device.

Anywhere between 30 and 40 ma is a good range for this amp.


----------



## armandodiaz

C4 and C19....

I know there's been a lot of testing with different cap values. Has anyone come up any good results?

On channel one. I barely have the tremble on 2. So I would like to give myself a little more breathing room.

On channel two. I already have C19 clipped and it sounds "ok", but might sound better with an actual cap installed.


----------



## USAPatriot

EH6550 specs and wiring diagram:

https://d1sjrnpi226dnf.cloudfront.net/spree/attached_files/6550eh.pdf?1400186878

EH-EL34 Specs and wiring diagram:

https://d1sjrnpi226dnf.cloudfront.net/spree/attached_files/el34eh.pdf?1400186723

Ya gotta click through, sorry. They are .pdf's, not image files. 

The 6550 is termed a beam tetrode, whereas in the 40C, the EL34 and 6CA7 function as triodes or pentodes. I'm not sure how this works out for the 6550 in a DSL40C. -Rod-

-Rod-


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Mesa100w said:


> I have a Marshall DSL 40 c,I did the c19 mod,and upgraded the speaker with an EV SRO 12,the gain channel sounds great now,but just after the warranty expired the clean channel is all fuzzy and the output is low,does anyone know of the whereabouts of a schematic for this amp? I used to have an older 50 watt plexie head back in the "day" when you could buy a used one for $400...I wanted to get back into the Marshall sound again but I'm somewhat letdown,if anyone could be of help please let Me know...
> 
> Thanks



Start with the most likely culprits. If the output is OK on OD channel, then output tubes should be fine. Start with V1 preamp tube. Replace it and see. FX loop jacks can get cruddy internally, run a plug in and out with good contact cleaner. Welcome to the forum, the 40C is really quite a good little amp.


----------



## mickeydg5

USAPatriot said:


> EH6550 specs and wiring diagram:
> 
> https://d1sjrnpi226dnf.cloudfront.net/spree/attached_files/6550eh.pdf?1400186878
> 
> EH-EL34 Specs and wiring diagram:
> 
> https://d1sjrnpi226dnf.cloudfront.net/spree/attached_files/el34eh.pdf?1400186723
> 
> Ya gotta click through, sorry. They are .pdf's, not image files.
> 
> The 6550 is termed a beam tetrode, whereas in the 40C, the EL34 and 6CA7 function as triodes or pentodes. I'm not sure how this works out for the 6550 in a DSL40C. -Rod-
> 
> -Rod-


A beam tetrode is a pentode. It has beam forming plates instead of a screen. The beam plates or the screen makes the fifth element, therefore both being pentodes (five elements).
Yes they sound a little different as do all American tubes versus European counterparts.

Oh yeah, a true 6CA7 has beam plates as well. So you can call it a beam tetrode too.


----------



## mickeydg5

armandodiaz said:


> C4 and C19....
> 
> I know there's been a lot of testing with different cap values. Has anyone come up any good results?
> 
> On channel one. I barely have the tremble on 2. So I would like to give myself a little more breathing room.
> 
> On channel two. I already have C19 clipped and it sounds "ok", but might sound better with an actual cap installed.


On CLEAN Channel 1 try changing R5 to 120k or 150k. You can also try anywhere from 68k down to 33k in place of R2 100k.

On ULTRA Channel 2 change C19 to 100pF.

You may like that.


----------



## 50WPLEXI

Anyone know where I can get a set of screws used to bolt the amp to the cab? I have to admit one thing, I really like the amp. Hate the shit the cab is made of, and the cheapness of it. 

Might look into getting a cab made out of birch or something, thanks.


----------



## armandodiaz

mickeydg5 said:


> On CLEAN Channel 1 try changing R5 to 120k or 150k. You can also try anywhere from 68k down to 33k in place of R2 100k.
> 
> On ULTRA Channel 2 change C19 to 100pF.
> 
> You may like that.



Thanks Mick, do you recall what's the original value of R5?


----------



## Micky

R5 is 82K


----------



## MarshallDog

armandodiaz said:


> C4 and C19....
> 
> I know there's been a lot of testing with different cap values. Has anyone come up any good results?
> 
> On channel one. I barely have the tremble on 2. So I would like to give myself a little more breathing room.
> 
> On channel two. I already have C19 clipped and it sounds "ok", but might sound better with an actual cap installed.



Sounds like you and me have the same issues with this amp. I did the C19 mod and have since used the 100pF cap, with nothing it was too dead for me. I also removed c5 and it was too dead so I went back to the stock 100pF. You may want to try lowering the -nf resistor. I have mine at 47K instead of 100K and it makes the amp less aggressive in your face with less high end bite, I have had it this way for a while and it seems to work well. I also use a Jan-Phillips 12AT7 in V1 and all the rest are Mullard EL34's and 12AX7's. I play Les Pauls and I am with you on this one, why would Marshall design an amp where the presence and treble knobs are basically useless even on a darker fuller humbucking guitar?? I could understand this with a single coil guitar???


----------



## MarshallDog

mickeydg5 said:


> On CLEAN Channel 1 try changing R5 to 120k or 150k. You can also try anywhere from 68k down to 33k in place of R2 100k.
> 
> On ULTRA Channel 2 change C19 to 100pF.
> 
> You may like that.



Mickydg - What would expect changing R5 and R2 to do to the tone and would it only affect the clean channel or both the clean crunch and ultra channels? I will be digging out the schematic soon but I have never messed with the resistors in this position before...thanks.


----------



## MarshallDog

All DSL 40C Owners - Has anyone else tried lowering the nf resistor? If so what do you think of it? Just wondering??


----------



## armandodiaz

MarshallDog said:


> Sounds like you and me have the same issues with this amp. I did the C19 mod and have since used the 100pF cap, with nothing it was too dead for me. I also removed c5 and it was too dead so I went back to the stock 100pF. You may want to try lowering the -nf resistor. I have mine at 47K instead of 100K and it makes the amp less aggressive in your face with less high end bite, I have had it this way for a while and it seems to work well. I also use a Jan-Phillips 12AT7 in V1 and all the rest are Mullard EL34's and 12AX7's. I play Les Pauls and I am with you on this one, why would Marshall design an amp where the presence and treble knobs are basically useless even on a darker fuller humbucking guitar?? I could understand this with a single coil guitar???



In an old post you said you removed C4. Do you still have it like that?


----------



## MarshallDog

50WPLEXI said:


> Anyone know where I can get a set of screws used to bolt the amp to the cab? I have to admit one thing, I really like the amp. Hate the shit the cab is made of, and the cheapness of it.
> 
> Might look into getting a cab made out of birch or something, thanks.



Wow, several months ago I bought a set from All Parts and Parts is Parts and they all now say these are no longer available...wtf! Is this another scam move by Marshall???

The only place I could find them is at Marshall Screw, CSK, M6x30, black, for JTM60 - Screws, nuts and bolts

The best bet would probably be on ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Marshall-Am...usicalInstr_Amplifiers_RL&hash=item2560cb9251

And they are not cheap. You could also try USM (U.S. Music Corp). They are the U.S. Distributor for Marshall and Marshall Parts. Their number is 800-877-6863. I have order direct from them in the past for hard to find parts and they have treated me great.


----------



## MarshallDog

armandodiaz said:


> In an old post you said you removed C4. Do you still have it like that?



I had it out then when I played the amp out with band and it didn't cut and sounded dead...so it is now back to 100pF but then again I have the nf resistor at 47K. if you want to try the 47K resistor mod, you can simply clip on another 100K in parallel will get you to 50K so you can try it without breaking out the soldering iron.


----------



## ledvedder

I have a DSL40c showing up at my door this afternoon. My one gear regret was selling my old DSL50 head, because I wanted to go the modeling route. I haven't been satisfied since. I found a decent deal on a DSL40c, so I figured I'd give it a shot. I'm hoping I've made the right decision.

I used to run my DSL50 with Ruby EL34BSTR power tubes, a Tungsol in v1, and a Sovtek LPS in v4. I used a custom 2x12 cabinet with a Veteran 30/ET65 combination. I'm wondering if this tube/speaker combination will work well.

Also, is there an index of all the mods that can be done to the DSL40c? It's difficult to search through this huge thread.


----------



## armandodiaz

MarshallDog said:


> I had it out then when I played the amp out with band and it didn't cut and sounded dead...so it is now back to 100pF but then again I have the nf resistor at 47K. if you want to try the 47K resistor mod, you can simply clip on another 100K in parallel will get you to 50K so you can try it without breaking out the soldering iron.



Which one is the nf resister... R2 or R5?

Will a 1/2 Watt Carbon Film Resistor work?


----------



## Micky

I believe R71 (100K) is the NFB resistor...


----------



## 50WPLEXI

MarshallDog said:


> Wow, several months ago I bought a set from All Parts and Parts is Parts and they all now say these are no longer available...wtf! Is this another scam move by Marshall???
> 
> The only place I could find them is at Marshall Screw, CSK, M6x30, black, for JTM60 - Screws, nuts and bolts
> 
> The best bet would probably be on ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Marshall-Amplifier-Chassis-Screw-M6x30-/160537743953?pt=UK_MusicalInstr_Amplifiers_RL&hash=item2560cb9251
> 
> And they are not cheap. You could also try USM (U.S. Music Corp). They are the U.S. Distributor for Marshall and Marshall Parts. Their number is 800-877-6863. I have order direct from them in the past for hard to find parts and they have treated me great.


 

Thanks Dog!


----------



## MarshallDog

Micky said:


> I believe R71 (100K) is the NFB resistor...



Yes it is. For what its worth, I played around with mine today and tried a 68K resistor. I think I like it, not sure yet. Still need to play it for a bit to tell for sure.


----------



## MarshallDog

armandodiaz said:


> Which one is the nf resister... R2 or R5?
> 
> Will a 1/2 Watt Carbon Film Resistor work?



Yes...


----------



## USAPatriot

mickeydg5 said:


> On CLEAN Channel 1 try changing R5 to 120k or 150k. You can also try anywhere from 68k down to 33k in place of R2 100k.
> 
> On ULTRA Channel 2 change C19 to 100pF.
> 
> You may like that.



Is there a miniature version of a variable cap that would work here? Miniature as in an IC with a control knob or at least smaller than the old multi-plate tuners that used to come in TV's? Many moons ago Micky and I were talking about this and the only parts I could find in that range (Say, 0-300pF) were basically just that...small TV-like tuners. Readily available but not really ideal and there may not be room for one either. The stock cap is just bad bananas. Mine's clipped and it's okay, has served me well, but maybe something in between would be better. "Dial a value" would be nice, I suppose. :blahblah: -Rod-


----------



## mickeydg5

MarshallDog said:


> Mickydg - What would expect changing R5 and R2 to do to the tone and would it only affect the clean channel or both the clean crunch and ultra channels? I will be digging out the schematic soon but I have never messed with the resistors in this position before...thanks.


 R2 and R5 affect the CLEAN side of the CLASSIC channel.
Look really good at the circuit. It is a fixed tone stack. Increasing R5 while decreasing R2 will provide a shift to less highs and more midrange and lows.

The CRUNCH side of the CLASSIC channel has the midrange peak filter, 470k and 470pF. If you want the same here increase C6 and lower C9 values.


----------



## mickeydg5

USAPatriot said:


> Is there a miniature version of a variable cap that would work here? Miniature as in an IC with a control knob or at least smaller than the old multi-plate tuners that used to come in TV's? Many moons ago Micky and I were talking about this and the only parts I could find in that range (Say, 0-300pF) were basically just that...small TV-like tuners. Readily available but not really ideal and there may not be room for one either. The stock cap is just bad bananas. Mine's clipped and it's okay, has served me well, but maybe something in between would be better. "Dial a value" would be nice, I suppose. :blahblah: -Rod-


They are not cheap but do not think they are really worth it.

GME50301 Sprague Goodman | Mouser

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Sprague-Goodman/GZC43112/?qs=iNbzBj8pBh0nEf8/9XPjlA==

An alternative would be placing a trimmer resistor in series with the capacitor.


----------



## riefil

I started a new thread but wanted to post here as well: http://www.marshallforum.com/marshall-amps/76100-finally-marshll-owner-dsl40c-house.html

So at the ripe old age of 39 I finally was able to get MY holy grail guitar, a Les Paul. Fast forward ten years and several amps later I finally have my rig set. Just picked up a DSL40C last night along with a DSL5C for noodling around while watching the tube. I should have the 5C next week as they didn't have 1 in stock.
I got my price for my DR Z Maz 18 so it made the decision that much easier. The only down side is I only got to spend about 10 minutes at around 930 pm with it. Only got the volume up to about 3 and it still sounded pretty damn good. Boosted with my BB preamp was glorious. I can't wait to be able to wind it up but that won't happen for a couple of days at least. Son's winter concert and track meet have thrown a monkey wrench into the works. LOL

I know I'm dreaming, but I think my tone search is over............or not.

Phil


----------



## 3dognate

I tried the C19 mod....

Hate it... took all the nice zing out of the lead channel. (probably helped the stock speaker.. but I find it dull this way with the G12H-75)

Soldering that sucker right back.


----------



## MarshallDog

riefil said:


> I started a new thread but wanted to post here as well: http://www.marshallforum.com/marshall-amps/76100-finally-marshll-owner-dsl40c-house.html
> 
> So at the ripe old age of 39 I finally was able to get MY holy grail guitar, a Les Paul. Fast forward ten years and several amps later I finally have my rig set. Just picked up a DSL40C last night along with a DSL5C for noodling around while watching the tube. I should have the 5C next week as they didn't have 1 in stock.
> I got my price for my DR Z Maz 18 so it made the decision that much easier. The only down side is I only got to spend about 10 minutes at around 930 pm with it. Only got the volume up to about 3 and it still sounded pretty damn good. Boosted with my BB preamp was glorious. I can't wait to be able to wind it up but that won't happen for a couple of days at least. Son's winter concert and track meet have thrown a monkey wrench into the works. LOL
> 
> I know I'm dreaming, but I think my tone search is over............or not.
> 
> Phil



Congrats...


----------



## TheSunShinesThrough

How could you people mod your DSL40C's like that? You oughta be ashamed of yourselves!


----------



## MarshallDog

TheSunShinesThrough said:


> How could you people mod your DSL40C's like that? You oughta be ashamed of yourselves!



Because everything can be improved


----------



## Micky

TheSunShinesThrough said:


> How could you people mod your DSL40C's like that? You oughta be ashamed of yourselves!



Because it's there.


----------



## thebowl

What's the consensus of opinion on power tubes/re-biasing? I have swapped the speaker and pre-amp tubes, with nice results. 

I am considering sticking some JJ power tubes in it and having it biased for those tubes. Worth the effort/cost?

I am interested in relatively clean (Marshall clean) headroom.


----------



## Micky

thebowl said:


> What's the consensus of opinion on power tubes/re-biasing? I have swapped the speaker and pre-amp tubes, with nice results.
> 
> I am considering sticking some JJ power tubes in it and having it biased for those tubes. Worth the effort/cost?
> 
> I am interested in relatively clean (Marshall clean) headroom.



It is always best practice to have a spare set of tubes.
Whether it is OEM, JJ or whatever you use as a spare set is up to you.

Lots of people here like JJ, personally I like TAD EL34b STR...


----------



## thebowl

Micky said:


> It is always best practice to have a spare set of tubes.
> Whether it is OEM, JJ or whatever you use as a spare set is up to you.
> 
> Lots of people here like JJ, personally I like TAD EL34b STR...



Thanks, Mickey. A related question- does the bias not need to be set separately for different types (brands) of tubes? Do it once, and then be good for a different set?


----------



## Micky

No 'e' in Micky... I don't wanna be confused with those other Mouse-lookin' Mickeys.

Bias needs to be set ANY time you put in new finals.

The nice part is, you don't have to have a matched pair like you would with other amps. But it is always best to bias when replacing them. Sometimes you can find a couple pairs that are very close, and you could use those in a pinch without rebiasing, but it is always best to rebias when replacing them.


----------



## USAPatriot

When I'm satisfied with the numbers on the meter, I turn the volume up some and listen for hum. Some tubes will cause a hum even when the bias is seemingly right where it should be. Taking the bias up or down a little seems to clear the hum out. This'll probably be most applicable if the tubes are poorly matched. -Rod-


----------



## thebowl

Micky said:


> No 'e' in Micky... I don't wanna be confused with those other Mouse-lookin' Mickeys.
> 
> Bias needs to be set ANY time you put in new finals.
> 
> The nice part is, you don't have to have a matched pair like you would with other amps. But it is always best to bias when replacing them. Sometimes you can find a couple pairs that are very close, and you could use those in a pinch without rebiasing, but it is always best to rebias when replacing them.



Thanks again, Micky.


----------



## USAPatriot

mickeydg5 said:


> They are not cheap but do not think they are really worth it.
> 
> GME50301 Sprague Goodman | Mouser
> 
> GZC43112 Sprague Goodman | Mouser
> 
> An alternative would be placing a trimmer resistor in series with the capacitor.



It's something to think about, anyway. Thanks. If anything I'd want to externalize it, even if it was just a nondescript black knob in the back. -Rod-


----------



## J.LaGrassa

3dognate said:


> I tried the C19 mod....
> 
> Hate it... took all the nice zing out of the lead channel. (probably helped the stock speaker.. but I find it dull this way with the G12H-75)
> 
> Soldering that sucker right back.




I felt the same way!


----------



## USAPatriot

J.LaGrassa said:


> I felt the same way!



It's just weird. Some people feel just like you and hate the mod, yet it makes the mode a logical extension of the other 3. With C-19 intact, well, it's like having 3 marbles and a brick. One of them is just not like the others. I couldn't use that mode with C-19 unclipped, it was like a chainsaw even when turned down. There ARE definitely some uses for it, but not out front...at least I couldn't use it that way. It'd be good for the 4th guitar way in the background I guess.

I do believe that at some point I'll wind up reattaching it but adding some flexibility to it, either a varicap or as was suggested, a pot in series with it. It's a beast that most people feel the need to tame, but if you can make it work, that's great! -Rod-


----------



## mickeydg5

The Mouse is bad ass.


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcX0xLD5Tdw[/ame]


----------



## J.LaGrassa

USAPatriot said:


> It's just weird. Some people feel just like you and hate the mod, yet it makes the mode a logical extension of the other 3. With C-19 intact, well, it's like having 3 marbles and a brick. One of them is just not like the others. I couldn't use that mode with C-19 unclipped, it was like a chainsaw even when turned down. There ARE definitely some uses for it, but not out front...at least I couldn't use it that way. It'd be good for the 4th guitar way in the background I guess.
> 
> I do believe that at some point I'll wind up reattaching it but adding some flexibility to it, either a varicap or as was suggested, a pot in series with it. It's a beast that most people feel the need to tame, but if you can make it work, that's great! -Rod-



I think that mod works best for people who use the gain set at 4 or lower, I use the gain at around 6 or 7 the most so that cap is not as prominent with the highs but it gives the higher gain more cut and keeps the bass tight. with the cap taken out its muddy distortion and bass ... which i don't like


----------



## 3dognate

J.LaGrassa said:


> I think that mod works best for people who use the gain set at 4 or lower, I use the gain at around 6 or 7 the most so that cap is not as prominent with the highs but it gives the higher gain more cut and keeps the bass tight. with the cap taken out its muddy distortion and bass ... which i don't like



Yes.... I can see that bright cap being too much for those insisting on not indulging the gain monster as it really adds brightness with the gain below noon. I run the gain around 2-3 o'clock, the bright cap is just in the circuit enough to make it interesting and keeps the low end tight. It certainly loosened things up where I like to run it when I clipped C19.

I use a tube screamer with my amp on the clean channel to achieve essentially 3 tones... Clean (gain around 3 o'clock) for cleans, add the TS for ac/dc kinda mid gain crunch (sounds near exactly like the clean channel in crunch mode) and the lead channel on lead 1. And I am undecided on keeping the tone shift in or out... out is feeling good but it still cuts through nice with it in. I need a few more rounds with the band and through the PA to decide what I like best.


----------



## riefil

I got about 45 mins. with the 40C last night. Green crunch seems to be where its at for me. Especially boosted with the BB preamp. Nice and thick. I found it interesting that the BB seemed more transparent than with my Maz18. Less coloring of the sound.
I also found that Lead 2 definitely has more "BEEF" than Lead 1. I found my sweet spot on Lead 2 with the Gain set at 9:00 Volume at around 11:00, any higher the BB pickups in my Les Paul squeal like a stuck pig. When paired with my Godin Freeway Classic, I was in 80's Hair Metal territory.
Overall very usable sounds throughout. As for the brightness, I was able to dial it out for the most part. Eventhough....it wasn't an unpleasant or icepicky brightness. I could see this being great in a band setting. 

I plugged into my 1965B loaded with the original Celestions. Quite a difference. The 1965B speakers must be significantly less efficient than the stock 70/80. The volume decrease was very apparent, which I wasn't expecting. The tone however was even more dramatic. Quite a lot less highs, which is great for home playing but not so sure about live.
Overall very nice. I can definitely see how it will get better as the speaker breaks in as others have mentioned. Eventually I'll try rolling in a couple of Ruby 12ax7's to see if there is a difference from stock. I would love to try rolling EL34s, but I'm not confident in my biasing skill(never tried it LOL). From everything I've read, Marshall has made it easier with the DSL40.

Hopefully I'll have more time this weekend to put it through it's paces, and I have the next two weeks off. Oh and I should be receiving my DSL5C Monday. All is right in my guitar playing universe


----------



## USAPatriot

J.LaGrassa said:


> I think that mod works best for people who use the gain set at 4 or lower, I use the gain at around 6 or 7 the most so that cap is not as prominent with the highs but it gives the higher gain more cut and keeps the bass tight. with the cap taken out its muddy distortion and bass ... which i don't like



That hasn't been my experience but we're likely using different guitars...pickups...as well. I like that I can go from Red2 to Green2 and back without tonal differences, only the amount of gain is changed. I'm not getting the mud so long as I control the bass and mids. I like my mids though and often walk a thin line between great and absolute shit. It seems like even the variability of my wall voltage makes a difference and it's only a +/- 3V difference on any given day...but I can hear it. -Rod-

(I'd really like to win that brown box to see if I could get a consistent tone every night. The electric company isn't inclined to help me out, though I did try  )


----------



## Micky

Brown box is just a digital variac. Any variac or conditioner will work for you if all you are interested in is regulating your voltage. +/- 5-10 volts is not gonna make that great a difference.

The big difference in the C19 mod or removal comes when the volume is changed. As you turn up the master for the Ultra Channel the cap plays less and less of a part in the circuit. The removal of the cap sounds great at 1-2, but past that gets muddy and undefined. Sure the fizz is gone, but so is the tone that cuts thru the mix...


----------



## mickeydg5

Its not even a variac. It has presets at specific percentages.
All amplifiers have tolerances which either raise or lower the voltages, even vintage ampliifers.

Still it is a cool tool if desired.


----------



## USAPatriot

It seems that Santa is delivering a set of EH-6550's to me. This could be fun or get really ugly really fast. Any thoughts? -Rod-


----------



## J.LaGrassa

USAPatriot said:


> It seems that Santa is delivering a set of EH-6550's to me. This could be fun or get really ugly really fast. Any thoughts? -Rod-




My thoughts are to hear what your thought are..


----------



## USAPatriot

J.LaGrassa said:


> My thoughts are to hear what your thought are..



MY thought it that it's worth a shot. The specs seem close enough to the EL34B's and 6CA7's that it should work but there will not be a half-power mode. I''m thinking that if I flip the switch and forget to put the amp in pentode mode the amp will likely go up in smoke. It's definitely something I'll be double checking.

Anything else I should be concerned about? -Rod-


----------



## Micky

Make sure to run the video camera if there is gonna be smoke...


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> Make sure to run the video camera if there is gonna be smoke...



Should I be concerned that you're letting me dive in first?  -Rod-


----------



## Skylarkpilot

+1 on the video suggestion.....I've never seen an amp spontaneously combust before.
Best of luck


----------



## Mesa100w

Thanks,the amp is fairly new,I did find c 44 has a bad solder joint,has anyone replaced c44 with orange drop spragues? I OD channel is stellar with the c 19 mod, thank you for your help


----------



## riefil

I had the beast breathing fire yesterday. Sounded very, very good. So much so that at the end of the day I was talking to the wife about it-she brought it up- and she said that the upstairs floor was vibrating I told her, "yeah it's a Marshall" LOL

On another note I received my DSL5C two days early. Nice little amp. I found the clean very usable. Up to about 5 on the volume stayed pretty clean, anything higher got some breakup with a lot of compression. It also added quite a bit of low end, more than I anticipated.
On the Ultra gain, for the style I play, I found the gain at 9:00 and the volume anywhere from 1:00 or higher to be the sweet spot for me. I really like the deep switch on the Ultra gain channel. Not so much on Classic.
Overall very pleased with it for what I plan to do with it.
Looking forward to trying the audio-in and headphone functions. Should be fun


----------



## riefil

BTW I don't have the "I can hardly hear the reverb" problem others have experienced. I guess it's hit or miss. I don't like reverb much anyway so I find myself turning it off.

So far what I'm loving is what I can only describe as a 3-D sound. Hard to explain really almost a doubling sound, very pleasing to my ear. Also, I can really really cop an ABB sound very well from Elizabeth Reed to Whipping Post! AC\DC no problem. Aerosmith, Free, Poison, Ozzy etc. with a few tweaks and a button push. Quite versatile.

Phil

Phil


----------



## gonzald1

Micky said:


> To remove the C19 cap makes all the difference in the world!
> The OD2 mode on the 2nd channel was pretty much unusable for me as it came from the factory. It may be fine for some as it is stock, but I can only imagine extreme metal being played on hi-gain pointy guitars by angry young punks. (no disrespect) Lots of gain is putting it mildly...
> 
> It is a pretty easy mod, I did it without removing the main PC board. Here is a photo:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I basically just touched a lo-powered soldering pencil (33 watts) to one leg and pried up the cap. It will be easy to return it to stock if needed. Here is another photo:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The OD2 mode on the Ultra Gain channel is now my go-to mode for a boost even though I don't play lead. It has a ballsy feel to it now rather than a fizzy buzz.



I thought about doing this to my combo. When you say go-to mode, when you press this mode how loud can it get. enough to notice when soloing? thank you. you did a good job on this by the way!


----------



## Micky

Gonzald - I have since modified this mod, I now use a 180pf cap in this spot instead of the stock 470pf. I did this after I changed the speaker and realized the mod was just removing TOO much treble and fizz.

With the stock Seventy/80 speaker this mod makes a lot of sense, especially at low volumes. Since I replaced my speaker with an Eminence Man-O-War, I found I needed to put back some of the highs to even out the tone. Soldering in a 180pf ceramic cap did the trick.

Depending on what speaker you have installed you may want to re-think the mod. Nice thing is, if you have soldering skills it is easy to reverse.

Also remember, the more you turn it up, the less that cap affects the circuit.

And yes, switching to the Ultra Channel has plenty of volume for leads. This is why it is called DSL (Dual Super Lead)...


----------



## bman

I couldn't agree w/ Micky more. When I tried a Creamback and Vintage 30 , the amp sounded great and I feel It did not need the C-19 mod what so ever. When I placed the 70/80 speaker back in for giggles I noticed the high end being a little to piercing to my ears.


----------



## bman

Damn...102 pages on the DSL40. I am curious to see if it's one of the best selling Marshall's of all time. Loud, Mean, and relatively inexpensive.


----------



## Micky

bman said:


> Damn...102 pages on the DSL40. I am curious to see if it's one of the best selling Marshall's of all time. Loud, Mean, and relatively inexpensive.



Only 76 pages here.
(I customized my page settings... more posts per page)


----------



## riefil

My stack


----------



## AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing

The creamback and the vintage 30 come up a lot in conversation as replacements for the stock speaker. Which would you guys say would be better for someone (i.e. me) who likes 80's/90s hard rock tones (as oppose to the classic rock stuff many here favor)?

Can you hear the speaker differences at lower volumes (gain/volume on either channel at 2-3) or do those differences only really become apparent with the amp cranked?


----------



## Knopfler

Hi!!

Could anyone make a resume of all the mods?

Cheers!


----------



## flyfish-mt

Knopfler said:


> Hi!!
> 
> Could anyone make a resume of all the mods?
> 
> Cheers!




I agree, it's a pain in the rear trying to filter through the 100+ pages looking for mods.


----------



## Micky

Sorry, but it is required that you read every post.
Only THEN can you claim to be a true DSL40c owner.

It is part of the hazing process...


----------



## flyfish-mt

Micky said:


> Sorry, but it is required that you read every post.
> Only THEN can you claim to be a true DSL40c owner.
> 
> It is part of the hazing process...




Hazing again!! Brings back memories of the college days (tOSU).


----------



## Knopfler

Micky said:


> Sorry, but it is required that you read every post.
> Only THEN can you claim to be a true DSL40c owner.
> 
> It is part of the hazing process...


 





My English is really bad!!!


----------



## 3dognate

Most mentions of Creambacks are refering to the G12M-65... But the G12H-75 Creamback is a solid speaker in the DSL40C, it has a tighter bottom end and is a good tweener between the G12M-65 and Vintage 30.

Don't forget to include better cabinetry as a crucial mod.


----------



## solarburn

Looks sweet!


----------



## flyfish-mt

First off, I'm new to the whole bias thing as I have always had a tech perform this on my tube amps in the past. I decided to crack out the old Fluke 77 and give it a whirl as I love to tinker around with stuff now that I have the time. 

First off, the two factory EL34's were marked 40mv on the base so I decided to set the bias at this value......not knowing or how to come up with the plate voltage I thought this would be a safe setting even though it's on the higher side of EL34's. The factory settings were 39/37 so it adjusted the trim pots both to read 40. Thoughts, comments, suggestions?


----------



## J.LaGrassa

flyfish-mt said:


> First off, I'm new to the whole bias thing as I have always had a tech perform this on my tube amps in the past. I decided to crack out the old Fluke 77 and give it a whirl as I love to tinker around with stuff now that I have the time.
> 
> First off, the two factory EL34's were marked 40mv on the base so I decided to set the bias at this value......not knowing or how to come up with the plate voltage I thought this would be a safe setting even though it's on the higher side of EL34's. The factory settings were 39/37 so it adjusted the trim pots both to read 40. Thoughts, comments, suggestions?



You should measure your plate voltage first to determine where your bias level should be set, 40mA is a tad hotter than 70% I found 36-38mA is a typical setting based on the plate voltage.


----------



## MarshallDog

Probably a bad tub seeing all is fine with the other set. I would start by testing each pre-amp tube one by one to find the bad one and if nothing, doe then its probably the power tubes. Get a warranty set. Thus can happn at times with new tubes oh and by the way, regardless of what anyone says NOS tubes fail also. I have had a few fail right out of the box just like CP tubes. Bthe Tube Store says they experience about the same rate of failure between CP and NOS no matter how good they burn them in and test them.


----------



## flyfish-mt

J.LaGrassa said:


> You should measure your plate voltage first to determine where your bias level should be set, 40mA is a tad hotter than 70% I found 36-38mA is a typical setting based on the plate voltage.



I did mention in my previous post that I did not know how to measure the plate voltage. Any help would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

flyfish-mt said:


> I did mention in my previous post that I did not know how to measure the plate voltage. Any help would be greatly appreciated.




Carefully measure the voltage on pin 3 of the power tube it should be around 450-455Vdc then use the formula below to find the bias current usually 70% idle current is used. EL34 is a 25 Watt tube

watts/Plate Voltage x .7= idle current (70%)

25/455=.054mA x .7 = .038mA

so 38mA would be the idle current set at 70%


----------



## Micky

Here you go:


----------



## Boldkharma

I got mine about three months ago new. Several gigs and it sounds better every time I play it. It's stock and I will leave it that way for awhile. The 70/80 is breaking in nicely. I love it : )


----------



## Classicplayer

Boldkharma said:


> I got mine about three months ago new. Several gigs and it sounds better every time I play it. It's stock and I will leave it that way for awhile. The 70/80 is breaking in nicely. I love it : )



Nice! How does that Studio Deluxe sound with it? I have the Aztec Gold version.

Classicplayer


----------



## Boldkharma

Classicplayer said:


> Nice! How does that Studio Deluxe sound with it? I have the Aztec Gold version.
> 
> Classicplayer



It's a 2005 Studio Custom. The Duncan 59's sound fantastic in this guitar and through the DSL.


----------



## solarburn

flyfish-mt said:


> I did mention in my previous post that I did not know how to measure the plate voltage. Any help would be greatly appreciated.



It's good to know your plate voltage. On these DSL's I don't think it's crucial unless we have a mechanical issue. I'd feel fine biasing mine without knowing because I'm sure it falls between 450v and 470v. How do I know this? I've checked a few. Others report the same.

Having said that a bias number from 36mv to 38mv would sound and feel good regarding these DSL's having a Plate Voltage from 450v to 470V. There isn't much bias number separation per PV mentioned above. Meaning the bias changes slightly. I use my ears to bias if I'm using a 450v-470v PV spread. I find good tone and feel right off using 36mv-38mv.

I've been playing and biasing DSL's for quite some time both new and old El34 driven and my fav bias zones stay pretty much the same. 34mv to 38mv. I have never liked mine in the 40mv range and above. I find it gets muddy or loses its focus/definition. It's up to your ears and I always watch my power tubes to make sure they don't red plate which tells me I need to adjust bias, have bad power tube or a bias drift issue.

Disclaimer: I am not a Tech. Just experienced in biasing DSL's(EL34 driven)


----------



## flyfish-mt

Great stuff, very useful information!!


----------



## Dizzyg12

flyfish-mt said:


> I did mention in my previous post that I did not know how to measure the plate voltage. Any help would be greatly appreciated.



I measured mine at this red wire that I think went to the full/half power switch. Measured 472


----------



## Knopfler

3dognate said:


> Most mentions of Creambacks are refering to the G12M-65... But the G12H-75 Creamback is a solid speaker in the DSL40C, it has a tighter bottom end and is a good tweener between the G12M-65 and Vintage 30.
> 
> Don't forget to include better cabinetry as a crucial mod.



Wow!! Beautiful!!

Where did you buy the cabinetry?


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Got another Creamback 65 coming today, was listening to some of my old clips and CB65 does sound the sweetest to my ears... so back it goes. The V-Type is awesome but there is just something about the Creamback that I like a bit better, anyway cant wait to start cranking the amp and breaking it in.


----------



## 3dognate

Knopfler said:


> Wow!! Beautiful!!
> 
> Where did you buy the cabinetry?



I did it myself... (Been building cabinets for years.)

http://www.marshallforum.com/marshall-amps/76050-dsl40c-re-cab.html


----------



## 3dognate

AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing said:


> The creamback and the vintage 30 come up a lot in conversation as replacements for the stock speaker. Which would you guys say would be better for someone (i.e. me) who likes 80's/90s hard rock tones (as oppose to the classic rock stuff many here favor)?
> 
> Can you hear the speaker differences at lower volumes (gain/volume on either channel at 2-3) or do those differences only really become apparent with the amp cranked?



Nobody answered you... Out of the Celestion options...

Vintage 30
G12H-75
Lead 80

the G12M-65 that is recommended a lot is a tad loose for that style. (Perfect for a lot of guys though)


----------



## aalicea

Hi! Im been looking all over for the DSL40c Schematic with no luck, would you have this?
Thanks!!..Angel
divepr@hotmail.com


----------



## Dannyz

J.LaGrassa said:


> Got another Creamback 65 coming today, was listening to some of my old clips and CB65 does sound the sweetest to my ears... so back it goes. The V-Type is awesome but there is just something about the Creamback that I like a bit better, anyway cant wait to start cranking the amp and breaking it in.




Did you tried the V-Type? what are your thoughts about that speaker? I have one in my Marshall Sl-5 that isnt broken in yet.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Dannyz said:


> Did you tried the V-Type? what are your thoughts about that speaker? I have one in my Marshall Sl-5 that isnt broken in yet.




yes I've had that speaker I like it a lot its very balanced its got a solid rock tone!


----------



## USAPatriot

3dognate said:


> Nobody answered you... Out of the Celestion options...
> 
> Vintage 30
> G12H-75
> Lead 80
> 
> the G12M-65 that is recommended a lot is a tad loose for that style. (Perfect for a lot of guys though)



Of the 3 I've only used the V30 which is what's in there now, and I really like it, moreso than the 70/80. The speaker that comes in the Jet City cabs is good with the 40C, too. It's an Eminence, though, and I don't recall the model #. It's got good bass, good highs and lots of mids, maybe too much. I found I had to dial out a lot of it to keep the cabs from buzzing. The cabs were closed back and sitting on a hollow chest, which may have had an effect as well. Anyhow, I like the V30. -Rod-


----------



## cavedog69

Grat jb. I would do it cept I have a 5 year extendted warranty. Had one one on my Les Paul. Had some problems with it. The Tech at the warranty place told to just brek the neck on it and get a new one. So I leaned on the wall kicked the the neck. Took it back and ended up with an upgrade for free.

Ome peoples sence of worth on this planet is vastly over rated. Present company excluded.


----------



## ledvedder

Wow, this thread is long! Hi guys, I recently acquired a DSL40c. I used to own a DSL50 head, but sold it a few years ago. That turned out to be a huge mistake, since I loved that head so much. Well, I was able to work a trade and received the 40c, since I don't play out much any more. I figured the combo would be more useful for jamming at home. 

I received it will all JJ tubes (pre and power) in it. I was curious to find out what tube combinations everyone has found work good with this amp. In my old head, I used to run a Tungsol in v1, a Sovtek LPS in v4, and various chinese tubes in v2 and v3. I also found that Ruby EL34BSTR's worked best for me. Well, the preamp tubes all went when I sold the head. I've already replaced the JJ power tubes with the Ruby's. I'm wondering if it would be worth the investment to buy different preamp tubes, or just stick with the JJ's in the preamp.


----------



## Boldkharma

ledvedder said:


> Wow, this thread is long! Hi guys, I recently acquired a DSL40c. I used to own a DSL50 head, but sold it a few years ago. That turned out to be a huge mistake, since I loved that head so much. Well, I was able to work a trade and received the 40c, since I don't play out much any more. I figured the combo would be more useful for jamming at home.
> 
> I received it will all JJ tubes (pre and power) in it. I was curious to find out what tube combinations everyone has found work good with this amp. In my old head, I used to run a Tungsol in v1, a Sovtek LPS in v4, and various chinese tubes in v2 and v3. I also found that Ruby EL34BSTR's worked best for me. Well, the preamp tubes all went when I sold the head. I've already replaced the JJ power tubes with the Ruby's. I'm wondering if it would be worth the investment to buy different preamp tubes, or just stick with the JJ's in the preamp.




Congrats! I learned my lesson on selling my DSL50 awhile ago. Many amps later I am back to my number 1 head. THESE DSL's aren't going anywhere! Enjoy the 40c, they are great amps.


----------



## Knopfler

3dognate said:


> I did it myself... (Been building cabinets for years.)
> 
> http://www.marshallforum.com/marshall-amps/76050-dsl40c-re-cab.html



Congrats!

Really nice.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

ledvedder said:


> Wow, this thread is long! Hi guys, I recently acquired a DSL40c. I used to own a DSL50 head, but sold it a few years ago. That turned out to be a huge mistake, since I loved that head so much. Well, I was able to work a trade and received the 40c, since I don't play out much any more. I figured the combo would be more useful for jamming at home.
> 
> I received it will all JJ tubes (pre and power) in it. I was curious to find out what tube combinations everyone has found work good with this amp. In my old head, I used to run a Tungsol in v1, a Sovtek LPS in v4, and various chinese tubes in v2 and v3. I also found that Ruby EL34BSTR's worked best for me. Well, the preamp tubes all went when I sold the head. I've already replaced the JJ power tubes with the Ruby's. I'm wondering if it would be worth the investment to buy different preamp tubes, or just stick with the JJ's in the preamp.




I like all JJ tubes in this amp they warm up the top end slightly and keep the mids and bass very tight, I use 4 JJ ECC83S and a pair of JJ E34L. I will probably experiment with some other tubes at some point but I'm happy with the tone of the JJ's.

Congrats on the amp!


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Got a good deal on a used WGS Veteran 30 so I couldnt resist buying it, installed it today and it sounds great. It reminds me of the Celestion V-Type but a tad warmer and much bigger low end the amp seems to clean up better with your guitars volume knob, I think this is another excellent speaker for the DSL40 that helps tame some of the brightness and beef up the overall tone. I always wondered what would the V-Type sound like with a 50 oz magnet I think the Vet 30 is that speaker!!


----------



## ledvedder

J.LaGrassa said:


> Got a good deal on a used WGS Veteran 30 so I couldnt resist buying it, installed it today and it sounds great. It reminds me of the Celestion V-Type but a tad warmer and much bigger low end the amp seems to clean up better with your guitars volume knob, I think this is another excellent speaker for the DSL40 that helps tame some of the brightness and beef up the overall tone. I always wondered what would the V-Type sound like with a 50 oz magnet I think the Vet 30 is that speaker!!



Nice! I'm keeping an eye out for a Vet 30 or an Invader 50.


----------



## armandodiaz

After 30 yrs I finally found my perfect tone (I think)....

I installed 100pf cap on C19
installed 47K resister on R71

Pre tubes are (from V1-4) Tung-Sol, JJ 803 gold, JJ 803, JJ 803
Power Tubes JJ EL34: biased to 40 (38 sounded a little weak)

Speaker is a Creamback 65 (made in the UK)

I've only played this configuration for about 30 min. But it sounds awesome!


----------



## ledvedder

armandodiaz said:


> After 30 yrs I finally found my perfect tone (I think)....
> 
> I installed 100pf cap on C19
> installed 47K resister on R71
> 
> Pre tubes are (from V1-4) Tung-Sol, JJ 803 gold, JJ 803, JJ 803
> Power Tubes JJ EL34: biased to 40 (38 sounded a little weak)
> 
> Speaker is a Creamback 65 (made in the UK)
> 
> I've only played this configuration for about 30 min. But it sounds awesome!



What does R71 do to the sound?


----------



## Micky

R71 is commonly referred to as the NFB resistor (Negative Feed Back).
It is in series with circuit that feeds the Presence and Resonance controls.


----------



## Micky

USAPatriot said:


> It seems that Santa is delivering a set of EH-6550's to me. This could be fun or get really ugly really fast. Any thoughts? -Rod-



You get these installed yet?


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> You get these installed yet?



Not yet, Micky. I've been sick since Christmas, haven't played in 4 nights now and just don't want to mess with it, but I will. I was about to reply to the post above since I'm aiming to add a 100k resistor to R71. I don't want to pull the board so am taking the easy route. I also still need to get the choke installed. I'm thinking that I'll custom make a mount so I don't have to drill new holes for the screws. AND, yes, I need to look into getting the 6550's in there. If you have any thoughts, I'm all ears! -Rod-


----------



## Rahlstin

Ive got all Tungsol preamp tubes in mine. Stock pwr tubes. This amp just sings. Even at three its got good volume and just sounds amazing. ITs a great amp.


----------



## ledvedder

Are the any other specifics regarding the 100pf cap for C19 and the 47k resistor for R71 that I should be looking for?


----------



## Len

ledvedder said:


> Are the any other specifics regarding the 100pf cap for C19 and the 47k resistor for R71 that I should be looking for?



What do you mean?


----------



## ledvedder

Len said:


> What do you mean?



Like voltage or wattage. 1/4 watt for C19?


----------



## Micky

1/2 watt resistor, and a 50v ceramic cap.


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> 1/2 watt resistor, and a 50v ceramic cap.



I've been meaning to ask: What are the ramifications, if any, of using a higher wattage resistor in R71? -Rod-


----------



## Len

USAPatriot said:


> I've been meaning to ask: What are the ramifications, if any, of using a higher wattage resistor in R71? -Rod-



At these audio frequencies there's no impact.


----------



## Micky

USAPatriot said:


> I've been meaning to ask: What are the ramifications, if any, of using a higher wattage resistor in R71? -Rod-



Space. A larger resistor might not piggyback so easily...


----------



## USAPatriot

Len said:


> At these audio frequencies there's no impact.





Micky said:


> Space. A larger resistor might not piggyback so easily...



Thanks!  -Rod-


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Here is a little sample of the WGS Veteran 30 I just installed in my DSL40, starts of with green channel set to crunch with gain on 4 then goes into the Ultra channel Lead 1 with gain set at 6. 
EQ was treble 5, mid 6, bass 7, Presence 5, Resonance 5 
Have no clue what I was playing just put the recorder(Tascam DR-05) on and played! 

[SC]https://soundcloud.com/jlagrassa/dsl40cvet30[/SC]


----------



## MarshallDog

J.LaGrassa said:


> Here is a little sample of the WGS Veteran 30 I just installed in my DSL40, starts of with green channel set to crunch with gain on 4 then goes into the Ultra channel Lead 1 with gain set at 6.
> EQ was treble 5, mid 6, bass 7, Presence 5, Resonance 5
> Have no clue what I was playing just put the recorder(Tascam DR-05) on and played!
> 
> [SC]https://soundcloud.com/jlagrassa/dsl40cvet30[/SC]



Sounds good, just curious, what where the settings on the PRS and Imassuming that was the bridge pup? I may try your settings tomorrow.


----------



## Swede

Sounds good Lagrassa....Question, ive noticed you change speaker very often? Just dont find your sound, or just joyous experimentation?


----------



## ledvedder

J.LaGrassa said:


> Here is a little sample of the WGS Veteran 30 I just installed in my DSL40, starts of with green channel set to crunch with gain on 4 then goes into the Ultra channel Lead 1 with gain set at 6.
> EQ was treble 5, mid 6, bass 7, Presence 5, Resonance 5
> Have no clue what I was playing just put the recorder(Tascam DR-05) on and played!
> 
> [SC]https://soundcloud.com/jlagrassa/dsl40cvet30[/SC]



Sounds great! What delay are you using?


----------



## ledvedder

Can I run this amp with a single 8 ohm speaker? I ask because I have a 2x12 cab loaded with a Veteran 30 and an ET-65, both are 8 ohms. I'd like to try each of these in the combo and see which sounds best.


----------



## Micky

Yes.


----------



## solarburn

J.LaGrassa said:


> Here is a little sample of the WGS Veteran 30 I just installed in my DSL40, starts of with green channel set to crunch with gain on 4 then goes into the Ultra channel Lead 1 with gain set at 6.
> EQ was treble 5, mid 6, bass 7, Presence 5, Resonance 5
> Have no clue what I was playing just put the recorder(Tascam DR-05) on and played!
> 
> [SC]https://soundcloud.com/jlagrassa/dsl40cvet30[/SC]



That sounded excellent to me. Loved the playing. Tasty!

I have had a couple of Veteran 30's for a few years now and find them smoother than the V30 counter parts. They don't have the high mids. Really like what you got tone wise out of that clip. Sounded real good man all the way through.

Test it out live and see how the amp cuts in a mix now. Smoother speakers can sit back in a mix. Sound great at home by themselves. I've never used my Veteran 30's live so I'm interested in what you find.


----------



## Alex von Wald

Hi folks, this is my first post here. First of all, congratulations on this really solid forum. Let me ask you for help with a technical issue: is it OK if I run a DSL40C with a nominal input voltage of 220V (which I take to mean that this amp was made for use in the UK, so it must have been designed for 220V--50Hz) in 220V--60Hz, which is what I have at home? In short, will the different power frequency damage the amp or compromise its operation?

I've looked for a definitive answer to this elsewhere on the net but couldn't find it. From what I've read, a number of people seem to believe that the transformer may be sensitive to the different frequency. What are your thoughts on this subject?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## J.LaGrassa

MarshallDog said:


> Sounds good, just curious, what where the settings on the PRS and Imassuming that was the bridge pup? I may try your settings tomorrow.



yeah I stayed on the bridge pup the whole time, I kind of like the way this speaker doesn't add to the crunch so it allows you to be a bit more dynamic with your picking hand.


----------



## Classicplayer

J L That really sounded fine to me, lots of articulation in part one. Same question here's: where did you have the guitar's volume controls. Added bonus: you have excellent touch control; especially in the first section. That VET speaker adds so much good stuff.

Classicplayer


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Swede said:


> Sounds good Lagrassa....Question, ive noticed you change speaker very often? Just dont find your sound, or just joyous experimentation?




A little bit of both but I like to experiment a lot its fun as long as I can afford it


----------



## J.LaGrassa

ledvedder said:


> Sounds great! What delay are you using?



Good old Boss DD-3 in the loop!


----------



## J.LaGrassa

solarburnDSL50 said:


> That sounded excellent to me. Loved the playing. Tasty!
> 
> I have had a couple of Veteran 30's for a few years now and find them smoother than the V30 counter parts. They don't have the high mids. Really like what you got tone wise out of that clip. Sounded real good man all the way through.
> 
> Test it out live and see how the amp cuts in a mix now. Smoother speakers can sit back in a mix. Sound great at home by themselves. I've never used my Veteran 30's live so I'm interested in what you find.




thats the big test how will it sit in a band mix, I think it will be fine but will find out this weekend!


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Classicplayer said:


> J L That really sounded fine to me, lots of articulation in part one. Same question here's: where did you have the guitar's volume controls. Added bonus: you have excellent touch control; especially in the first section. That VET speaker adds so much good stuff.
> 
> Classicplayer



I believe in the first section I still had the guitars volume maxed and just used a lighter picking hand, thats what I like about the Vet 30 I feel it doesn't break up so easily so it allows better picking dynamics in combination to the amps sensitivity.


----------



## Micky

Alex von Wald said:


> Hi folks, this is my first post here. First of all, congratulations on this really solid forum. Let me ask you for help with a technical issue: is it OK if I run a DSL40C with a nominal input voltage of 220V (which I take to mean that this amp was made for use in the UK, so it must have been designed for 220V--50Hz) in 220V--60Hz, which is what I have at home? In short, will the different power frequency damage the amp or compromise its operation?
> 
> I've looked for a definitive answer to this elsewhere on the net but couldn't find it. From what I've read, a number of people seem to believe that the transformer may be sensitive to the different frequency. What are your thoughts on this subject?
> 
> Thanks in advance!



I believe you will be fine.
You could also email Marshall to find out exactly what they have to say.
I don't know the local email address for your area though...

OH! New members generally post a message in the New Member Introductions section to let others know a bit about themselves. Welcome aboard!


----------



## ledvedder

JEB said:


> OK, got the choke in and put in the 3 position switch for C19 so it now has 470pf, 100pf silver mica and open positions. I still don't care for the 470 sound, but I guess I have it if I ever want it.
> 
> The mV readings before installing the choke were ~40.2 mV from the factory. I adjusted it down to ~38.2 mV before installing the choke. After installation, the bias read ~35 mV and I adjusted it back to ~38.2 mV.
> 
> The choke seems to smooth out the higher gain setting...hard for me to explain...the amp now seems to makes fewer harsh unwanted sounds cause I know my playing hasn't improved... or maybe my hearing is going lol. Maybe a bit lower background noise? I'll have to record it to compare with the previous sound to really tell and make sure it's not just my imagination.
> 
> I like it. The celestion gold is breaking in now and sounds very 70ish. It nails that muted/muffled roar of AC/DC sound. Can even get some Stones sound out of this. All evening I've been playing with different settings and various old bands would spring to mind. I butchered a little Billy Idol and good lord, I even played a little Heat of the Moment for the wife lol. Still might get a creamback and put the gold in a cab. Curiosity will probably get the better of me.
> 
> Anyway, thanks to you guys for all of the excellent information on this board. This has been a pretty fun project.



I realize I'm quoting a pretty old post, but if you're still out there, can you tell me where you mounted the 3 position switch for C19 and where you purchased it?


----------



## Pasloade74

Ive been using a vintage 30 and Eminence Wizard in my DSL 40 since day one. And while they worked for being the only guitar player in a heavier band, things have since changed. Now I'm playing lighter rock in a band with another guitar player. 

Before I decide to sell my DSL 40 for something more fitting, could you guys give me any suggestions on a speaker that will dial down the harshness and warm it up a bit? I know a Celestion creamback is favored but its a bit out of my price range. I was thinking of maybe a WGS Reaper. I already have an ET-65 in a hot rod deluxe but I'm not sure how well it would work in the Marshall. I should probably give it a shot. 

Thanks


----------



## Len

Hmm, I tried the R71 mod (100K in parallel with R71) hoping that it would improve the clean sound of the amp. While it reduced the high frequency edge from the sound it seemed to make the low end sound flubbier (is that a word?) when the gain was increased.

Looks like it just wasn't my thing, and I'll just stick with the C19 mod for now.


----------



## Alex von Wald

Micky said:


> I believe you will be fine.
> You could also email Marshall to find out exactly what they have to say.
> I don't know the local email address for your area though...
> 
> OH! New members generally post a message in the New Member Introductions section to let others know a bit about themselves. Welcome aboard!




Thanks, Micky. I've sent a message through the form in the "contact us" section on marshallamps.com. Let's see what they say. But you're probably right, if the different frequencies were a big problem there would be quite some stories on the net about people blowing up "British" amps in the US or "American" amps in the UK. The 50th anniversary 1-watters were all made in the UK, but people don't have any problems with them in the US, right? 

I'm going to the New Members thread right now to properly introduce myself! Thanks again. When and if I get any more information on the frequency issue, I'll let everybody know.

Alex


----------



## Micky

Len said:


> Hmm, I tried the R71 mod (100K in parallel with R71) hoping that it would improve the clean sound of the amp. While it reduced the high frequency edge from the sound it seemed to make the low end sound flubbier (is that a word?) when the gain was increased.
> 
> Looks like it just wasn't my thing, and I'll just stick with the C19 mod for now.



That was my thinking also, I didn't do the mod because there is already Presence and Resonance controls downstream from that point...


----------



## JiMB

I've watched jlagrassa's threads here and at TGP for a while and finally picked up a DSL40C for the small club gigs we play. I use a SL100 RI and Germino Club 40 w/2x12 cab for bigger shows.
This amp is stock, it works!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnsDm7bVwu0


----------



## solarburn

JiMB said:


> I've watched jlagrassa's threads here and at TGP for a while and finally picked up a DSL40C for the small club gigs we play. I use a SL100 RI and Germino Club 40 w/2x12 cab for bigger shows.
> This amp is stock, it works!
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnsDm7bVwu0



Yep. That works for me...

Great playing with dem tonez.


----------



## lordquilton

JiMB said:


> I've watched jlagrassa's threads here and at TGP for a while and finally picked up a DSL40C for the small club gigs we play. I use a SL100 RI and Germino Club 40 w/2x12 cab for bigger shows.
> This amp is stock, it works!
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnsDm7bVwu0[/QUOTE
> 
> Great to have you here Jim, always enjoy your playing.
> It was your vid's that really helped me decide to put a Creamback in mine.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

JiMB said:


> I've watched jlagrassa's threads here and at TGP for a while and finally picked up a DSL40C for the small club gigs we play. I use a SL100 RI and Germino Club 40 w/2x12 cab for bigger shows.
> This amp is stock, it works!
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnsDm7bVwu0




Jim your demo's are always great, your DSL demo is one of the best out there!


----------



## JiMB

Thanks for the kind words, guys!
Love me some Marshalls!


----------



## Micky

This is turning out to be an EPIC thread!


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> This is turning out to be an EPIC thread!



 I think it passed that point a long time ago, Micky! Great job! -Rod-


----------



## USAPatriot

J.LaGrassa said:


> Here is a little sample of the WGS Veteran 30 I just installed in my DSL40, starts of with green channel set to crunch with gain on 4 then goes into the Ultra channel Lead 1 with gain set at 6.
> EQ was treble 5, mid 6, bass 7, Presence 5, Resonance 5
> Have no clue what I was playing just put the recorder(Tascam DR-05) on and played!
> 
> [SC]https://soundcloud.com/jlagrassa/dsl40cvet30[/SC]



NICE!!!

I have the same digital recorder and it's record/playback quality is nowhere near as good as this. I usually put it about 5' away on the floor in front of the amp. The "vu meter" says it's getting plenty of signal.
 -Rod-


----------



## J.LaGrassa

USAPatriot said:


> NICE!!!
> 
> I have the same digital recorder and it's record/playback quality is nowhere near as good as this. I usually put it about 5' away on the floor in front of the amp. The "vu meter" says it's getting plenty of signal.
> -Rod-




I place it about 1-2 ft away max from the speaker, gets more of the speaker but still some of the room!


----------



## JEB

ledvedder said:


> I realize I'm quoting a pretty old post, but if you're still out there, can you tell me where you mounted the 3 position switch for C19 and where you purchased it?



I drilled and mounted it to the back of the chassis. I don't remember the exact switch specs off the top of my head, but I just picked up a suitable 3-position switch from Radio Shack.


----------



## riefil

So I'm jonsing for my DSL40. I had gotten mine about three weeks ago. They didn't have a new one in stock so I took home the floor model while waiting for a new one. It was a bit scuffed up, didn't have the right footswitch, etc. Sounded great, just what I was expecting.
Took three weeks for them to get a NIB one from the distributor. Picked it up and exchanged it Monday night, but didn't get to open it at home until Tuesday night. Box was perfect, amp looked perfect...plugged it in, let it warm up.......nothing.....not a sound. Switched channels got a very low sound on ultra. Switched back to classic....mostly static, crackling...sounds like a bad tube. Now I have to wait...again....waaaaaaaah

ok end of rant. At least I don't feel as guilty reading the forum instead of practicing.


----------



## Len

JEB said:


> I drilled and mounted it to the back of the chassis. I don't remember the exact switch specs off the top of my head, but I just picked up a suitable 3-position switch from Radio Shack.



I did the same. I think next to the speaker jacks.


----------



## Micky

riefil said:


> So I'm jonsing for my DSL40. I had gotten mine about three weeks ago. They didn't have a new one in stock so I took home the floor model while waiting for a new one. It was a bit scuffed up, didn't have the right footswitch, etc. Sounded great, just what I was expecting.
> Took three weeks for them to get a NIB one from the distributor. Picked it up and exchanged it Monday night, but didn't get to open it at home until Tuesday night. Box was perfect, amp looked perfect...plugged it in, let it warm up.......nothing.....not a sound. Switched channels got a very low sound on ultra. Switched back to classic....mostly static, crackling...sounds like a bad tube. Now I have to wait...again....waaaaaaaah
> 
> ok end of rant. At least I don't feel as guilty reading the forum instead of practicing.



It does kind of suck that Marshall ships amps with the tubes installed. A lot can get damaged in transit.

Do what you can to get it going, wiggle the tubes in their sockets to insure they are making good contact, you may even want to swap out the preamp tubes one at a time to see if one has been damaged.

I know it is a pain, but if you at least try to figure out what is wrong you may not need to send it back...


----------



## riefil

Micky said:


> It does kind of suck that Marshall ships amps with the tubes installed. A lot can get damaged in transit.
> 
> Do what you can to get it going, wiggle the tubes in their sockets to insure they are making good contact, you may even want to swap out the preamp tubes one at a time to see if one has been damaged.
> 
> I know it is a pain, but if you at least try to figure out what is wrong you may not need to send it back...



I had suggested that to the salesman I've been dealing with and he said he'd advise not to, for whatever reason. I assume he's worried about voiding the warranty. I have a new set of RUBY 12ax7 that I will eventually swap in anyway. I may do it anyway just so I can get over my jones. I highly doubt that they could tell that I opened it up. We'll see if I find the time.


----------



## MarshallDog

riefil said:


> I had suggested that to the salesman I've been dealing with and he said he'd advise not to, for whatever reason. I assume he's worried about voiding the warranty. I have a new set of RUBY 12ax7 that I will eventually swap in anyway. I may do it anyway just so I can get over my jones. I highly doubt that they could tell that I opened it up. We'll see if I find the time.



Just be very careful with the screws when you remove the back cover, dont scratch them or anything and they will never be able to tell it was opened. And, when you remove the tubes, label them all so you know exactly what slot they came from so it all fails, you can pop them in and, once again, they will never know.


----------



## riefil

MarshallDog said:


> Just be very careful with the screws when you remove the back cover, dont scratch them or anything and they will never be able to tell it was opened. And, when you remove the tubes, label them all so you know exactly what slot they came from so it all fails, you can pop them in and, once again, they will never know.



sounds like good advice.


----------



## ledvedder

Has anyone used the Eminence CV-50 with this amp?


----------



## J.LaGrassa

ledvedder said:


> Has anyone used the Eminence CV-50 with this amp?




did you mean CV-75?

I tried one, its a good speaker thick mids and nice low end and warm top end, mids were a little too honky for me and the speaker breaks up quicker than i care for. It's got a huge 56 Oz magnet so it will definitely add some weight to the amp, The Veteran 30 I use now is similar but I think it's a better speaker. It's less honky and stays cleaner has plenty of tight low end, the more I break the Vet 30 in the better its sounding I have all the EQ controls and lead 1 gain at 12:00 and the amp has a very balanced tone.


----------



## riefil

Got my new one today. This thing smokes even better than my first one! Looks and sounds perfect in every way. I should have time tomorrow to really put it through its paces.
Aaahhhh a Les Paul through a Marshall....Rock n roll bliss.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

riefil said:


> Got my new one today. This thing smokes even better than my first one! Looks and sounds perfect in every way. I should have time tomorrow to really put it through its paces.
> Aaahhhh a Les Paul through a Marshall....Rock n roll bliss.



Best of luck with it!


----------



## riefil

J.LaGrassa said:


> Best of luck with it!



Thanks J


----------



## Len

Anyone know where to buy replacement bolts that hold the chassis in the cab? I think I've stripped one of mine.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Len said:


> Anyone know where to buy replacement bolts that hold the chassis in the cab? I think I've stripped one of mine.



check to see if the nut fell out, they are press fitted. 2 of mine fell out so I just used a couple 1/4-20 nut clips to replace it.


----------



## Len

J.LaGrassa said:


> check to see if the nut fell out, they are press fitted. 2 of mine fell out so I just used a couple 1/4-20 nut clips to replace it.



The bolts are stripped. It's not the nuts.


----------



## MarshallDog

Len said:


> Anyone know where to buy replacement bolts that hold the chassis in the cab? I think I've stripped one of mine.



Ebay is the only place i could find them listed two weeks ago. Just do a search for Marshall Chassis Bolts.


----------



## Len

MarshallDog said:


> Ebay is the only place i could find them listed two weeks ago. Just do a search for Marshall Chassis Bolts.



Man, ~$30 for 4 bolts since they come from the UK. Seems ridiculous that I can't find those black flathead bolts at a US retailer...


----------



## ledvedder

Has anyone put a list together of all the component changes that can be done, along with what each change does? I know about the C19 change, and the Orange Drop upgrades, but it would be nice to have a complete list in one place. This thread is very long, and difficult to search through!


----------



## Jethro Rocker

riefil said:


> Got my new one today. This thing smokes even better than my first one! Looks and sounds perfect in every way. I should have time tomorrow to really put it through its paces.
> Aaahhhh a Les Paul through a Marshall....Rock n roll bliss.



 Excellent! Glad you like it!

Y'know, even with my array of fine amps, I still really like the sound of my DSL. It would seem pointless with the TSL (way more versatile but heavier) and now the newest acquisition the 6101 (way more versatile, smaller footprint, heavier). Makes the 40C pretty well redundant. 

But WAIT!
It IS the lightest of my Marshall clan, good for carrying downstairs. The sound and tone from that little bugger with a Bad Monkey in front is really outstanding. Push the crunch channel through a V30, nice and tight, sustain, makes you wanna turn it up more! Lead channel sings, it just smokes. Good low end thump too for a 1x12. I can easily justify my 40C, I think it might get dibs next gig!
Cheers!


----------



## Rahlstin

Did a rehersal tonight with it, turned it up to 6, significantly louder than 3.... sounded great. Cranked it up to 10.... not too much louder but it really started to sing. Its a pretty loud little amp. Sure sounds good.


----------



## Micky

ledvedder said:


> Has anyone put a list together of all the component changes that can be done, along with what each change does? I know about the C19 change, and the Orange Drop upgrades, but it would be nice to have a complete list in one place. This thread is very long, and difficult to search through!



You can theoretically change EVERY component for some sort of perceived change... There are a thousand or so.


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> It does kind of suck that Marshall ships amps with the tubes installed. A lot can get damaged in transit.



I don't see how they have a choice, Micky. Even if they biased the tubes and then pulled them, someone would have to put the tubes in and check the voltage and bias after delivery. That means an extra expense for people that don't know how or don't want to, and time for those that can and are willing. I'd like to think that I can simply pull the amp out of the box and play it but there have been times...usually when the box looks beat to hell...where I've taken it apart and checked it before I ever played it. You're right that it sucks but I don't see any reasonable alternative for Marshall. I suppose they could contract out with a bunch of local techs that would come to your home, put the tubes in and bias it up, but the money part of it makes that impossible. Shrug.  -Rod-


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> You can theoretically change EVERY component for some sort of perceived change... There are a thousand or so.



Changing out copper wires for gold would be interesting. The cumulative losses in resistance might wax the amp. Or not. -Rod-


----------



## solarburn

Rahlstin said:


> Did a rehersal tonight with it, turned it up to 6, significantly louder than 3.... sounded great. Cranked it up to 10.... not too much louder but it really started to sing. Its a pretty loud little amp. Sure sounds good.



I play mine at 5 or 6 all the time. But I keep it on half power. Either 40/20 watts I find the tone or singing dynamics don't get any better to my ears past 6. It would be just burning out power tubes quicker running the power section harder.

Now I understand most places volume is an issue while playing out. Been there done that. You get the best you can out of it whatever volume but the amp really fills out when the power section comes in and opens up that preamp section. No fizz and it really can sing. Stock!

The guys that get stuck playing at low volumes only really sample a more fizzy/thinner tone or have a lot of trouble EQing less desirable characteristics of preamp laden tone a way. I don't mind practicing at low volume but when I want to play I have to have a certain amount of the DSL's power section engaged to clear up the saturation and get the notes big & round. Puts that smile on my face hence why I play at volume quite often. Awesome blues rock hard rock amp. I don't give a Shitz for high gain so it excels where I like it.


----------



## mickeydg5

Last amplifier I bought the seller asked if I wanted the tubes unloaded and boxed.
I said no. I told him if any were loose or he was worried then stuff some bubble wrap in there to keep things in place.

I would rather the tubes strapped into the amplifier than have a box of tubes loose with a 40 to 70 pound amplifier.

As long as there are spring, wire or shield retainers with no where for the tubes to go I do not worry.

Of course it is a shipping preference. 
Some people can box and secure things and some cannot. Anyway either way, if the tubes are intact its just one less thing to deal with.


----------



## The Outlaw

i was pissed when GC shipped my fender super sonic 60w combo with the tubes pulled out. i was sure i was going to screw atleast one of them up trying to put them all back in.


----------



## solarburn

mickeydg5 said:


> Last amplifier I bought the seller asked if I wanted the tubes unloaded and boxed.
> I said no. I told him if any were loose or he was worried then stuff some bubble wrap in there to keep things in place.
> 
> I would rather the tubes strapped into the amplifier than have a box of tubes loose with a 40 to 70 pound amplifier.
> 
> As long as there are spring, wire or shield retainers with no where for the tubes to go I do not worry.
> 
> Of course it is a shipping preference.
> Some people can box and secure things and some cannot. Anyway either way, if the tubes are intact its just one less thing to deal with.



I ship mine in the tubes sockets but if no retainers to secure them I makeshift my own retainer. Usually a plastic grocery bag wrapped over the top of the power tubes down to the chassis secured with a bit of duct taped makes a great retainer hehe. They don't move. I always have bubble wrap around to put between them if I want added bumpers. Preamp tubes are easy to secure.


----------



## solarburn

The Outlaw said:


> i was pissed when GC shipped my fender super sonic 60w combo with the tubes pulled out. i was sure i was going to screw atleast one of them up trying to put them all back in.



Once you've pulled and plugged a few in you'd laugh at yourself for having that fear. I was the same way at first. I have bent some pins on a few too but only when I was rushing and not lining the holes up. Bad eye sight. Got a good feel for it now.


----------



## ledvedder

Micky said:


> You can theoretically change EVERY component for some sort of perceived change... There are a thousand or so.



I know. But I know there are some specific ones that people have changed or upgraded. Like C19, C4, nfb, tone stack, etc.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Rahlstin said:


> Did a rehersal tonight with it, turned it up to 6, significantly louder than 3.... sounded great. Cranked it up to 10.... not too much louder but it really started to sing. Its a pretty loud little amp. Sure sounds good.




The amp shines when you get to crank it a bit and it doesn't have to be overly loud but just enough to push some air and work the power tubes and speaker


----------



## Micky

So, we took the time to document all of this, to boldly go where no man has gone before.

To reverse engineer many aspects of this amp and assemble our findings here.

I would imagine next you would want us to unsolder the components for you?


----------



## rodd

This is the speaker I want to try in my DSL 40. Classic - G12M-65 Creamback - Celestion - Guitar, Bass & Pro Audio Speakers. Will do when i get the money one day


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> So, we took the time to document all of this, to boldly go where no man has gone before.
> 
> To reverse engineer many aspects of this amp and assemble our findings here.
> 
> I would imagine next you would want us to unsolder the components for you?



Maybe each post needs a little icon to click that would let the software read the post to the user  -Rod-


----------



## ledvedder

Micky said:


> So, we took the time to document all of this, to boldly go where no man has gone before.
> 
> To reverse engineer many aspects of this amp and assemble our findings here.
> 
> I would imagine next you would want us to unsolder the components for you?



My apologies. I didn't mean to get anyone mad. I was just asking if the mods were listed in one post, since it's difficult to search the thread.


----------



## Micky

No worries, just poking a bit of fun at you and the forum.

We all know the search function sucks. And yes, this thread is very long.

Much longer than any of us ever imagined. BUT

This thread is FILLED with tidbits you won't find anywhere else.
Little tips, tricks and hints that those who choose to read every word will be rewarded with.

Many of us older, long-time members have very little tolerance and/or patience for those who are lazy and insist on us to search or reveal all the info we have worked long and hard to record here. As I mentioned, there is a certain joy of accomplishment waiting for those who choose to embark on this endeavor, but in your case, you are asking the question backwards.

You should question the tone you are chasing, and ask what you can/should do to obtain it.


----------



## ledvedder

Micky said:


> No worries, just poking a bit of fun at you and the forum.
> 
> We all know the search function sucks. And yes, this thread is very long.
> 
> Much longer than any of us ever imagined. BUT
> 
> This thread is FILLED with tidbits you won't find anywhere else.
> Little tips, tricks and hints that those who choose to read every word will be rewarded with.
> 
> Many of us older, long-time members have very little tolerance and/or patience for those who are lazy and insist on us to search or reveal all the info we have worked long and hard to record here. As I mentioned, there is a certain joy of accomplishment waiting for those who choose to embark on this endeavor, but in your case, you are asking the question backwards.
> 
> You should question the tone you are chasing, and ask what you can/should do to obtain it.



Very true Micky!

Well, the tone I usually always gravitate towards in a VH type of tone. Think VHII and/or Fair Warning type of tone. A bit warmer, and not as biting as the tone he got on VH1. I also like to go heavier into a 90's kind of tone (AIC - Facelift or Dirt). 

I play in a rock cover band, and we do everything from early Zeppelin to Godsmack, but the tones I've described above are my preferences.


----------



## USAPatriot

I've not been one to chase anyone's tone, preferring to chase my own, but for 40 years have been enamored of Gary Richrath's mastery of the high notes. Dunno how he does it but I suspect that a feedbacker comes into play at least some of the time. I have one in my BOSS GT-10 but I can't even come close...but I'm not Gary, either. -Rid


----------



## MarshallDog

rodd said:


> This is the speaker I want to try in my DSL 40. Classic - G12M-65 Creamback - Celestion - Guitar, Bass & Pro Audio Speakers. Will do when i get the money one day



The best speaker IMO and I have a few and one is in my DSL 40C.


----------



## Knopfler

MarshallDog said:


> The best speaker IMO and I have a few and one is in my DSL 40C.



Are everybody agree?
Is it the best??


----------



## lordquilton

Knopfler said:


> Are everybody agree?
> Is it the best??



Heh, if only it were that simple! I think MarshallDog is trying to say that for the sounds he likes to hear, the Creamback 65 is his favorite. I certainly like how it sounds in my DSL 40C, and so do others it would seem.

But what sort of sounds do _you_ like to hear? Which guitar players do you hear that make you go "Man that guy's sound really excites me!"? 
What do they use?
If your DSL 40C excites you already, why change it? 
What do you not like about your current sound, and do you actually need to change the speaker to fix that?
These are more effective questions to ask yourself. 
Asking is "x speaker the 'best'" will probably not provide answers that are of any value to you.

In these things there is no best, it's a matter of personal taste.


----------



## Knopfler

lordquilton said:


> Heh, if only it were that simple! I think MarshallDog is trying to say that for the sounds he likes to hear, the Creamback 65 is his favorite. I certainly like how it sounds in my DSL 40C, and so do others it would seem.
> 
> But what sort of sounds do _you_ like to hear? Which guitar players do you hear that make you go "Man that guy's sound really excites me!"?
> What do they use?
> If your DSL 40C excites you already, why change it?
> What do you not like about your current sound, and do you actually need to change the speaker to fix that?
> These are more effective questions to ask yourself.
> Asking is "x speaker the 'best'" will probably not provide answers that are of any value to you.
> 
> In these things there is no best, it's a matter of personal taste.


 
You´re right.
What King of music goes weel this speaker?
Blues, rock??


----------



## Micky

Knopfler said:


> Are everybody agree?
> Is it the best??



Nope. Way overpriced by comparison to Eminence and WGS.

For $80 you can have a Swamp Thang or a Vet 30.
For $100 you can have a Man-O-War.

All are better than any Celestion IMO. Buy American...


----------



## Rockbustet69

Hi Board,

I`m a new member from Germany. I already have a jvm 205C and a jvm 205h. I just ordered the DSL 40C as my home amp for practise, recording and small gig-setup in companion with my jvm 205 C on smaller Locations as a dual amp setup. I found lots of informations in this Forum and like to give a big *THANKS! WELL DONE!!!*

My favourite Speaker will be a celestion G12H-75 heritage. Can´t wait for the DSL to come. I will post some Clips with the Celestion G12H-75 and the DSL. TAD power tubes had been mentioned earlier in this thread. They do great mullard style preamp tubes as well which worked perfect in my jvms on V2 and V3. After the Speaker swap that might be my next change. 

This is a great forum and thanks again for all the applied informations it helped me make my decision!!!!


----------



## Micky

Greetings!

This thread is long, but I am sure you will find lots of important info here.

Many new members formally introduce themselves in the Member Introductions section. There you can tell us all a little about your self.


----------



## riefil

I finally got to spend some time with it this weekend. I love the classic cruch dimed. I think it really lets your guitars tone shine through. AC\DC, ZZ top on tap. Even got some great Allman's sounds. What I have been really surprised with is how much I like the Utra lead 2. I found using the gain at about 9:00 and Volume to taste(anything above 11:00 really) to be quite good. Definitely more girth than on lead 1. I find, so far, that if I think of it as two single channels amps and not a channel switcher, I don't get so bogged down with my settings. By that I mean that I found a setting for each channel with my guitar volume maxed, and ride the volume and tone on the guitar for my nuances. I like that essentially you have really two great single channels. What's nice for me is I was struggling with my amp choice. Marshall or Fender DDRI. I can get close to the DDRI on the classic channel. Not quite there but close enough for Rock 'n Roll.
On another note, I can see this being a great amp when sitting in a mix. The highs must really cut through the rest of the band quite nicely. I'm sure that once the speaker breaks-in, as others have said, I will really love this monster.


----------



## solarburn

riefil said:


> I finally got to spend some time with it this weekend. I love the classic cruch dimed. I think it really lets your guitars tone shine through. AC\DC, ZZ top on tap. Even got some great Allman's sounds. What I have been really surprised with is how much I like the Utra lead 2. I found using the gain at about 9:00 and Volume to taste(anything above 11:00 really) to be quite good. Definitely more girth than on lead 1. I find, so far, that if I think of it as two single channels amps and not a channel switcher, I don't get so bogged down with my settings. By that I mean that I found a setting for each channel with my guitar volume maxed, and ride the volume and tone on the guitar for my nuances. I like that essentially you have really two great single channels. What's nice for me is I was struggling with my amp choice. Marshall or Fender DDRI. I can get close to the DDRI on the classic channel. Not quite there but close enough for Rock 'n Roll.
> On another note, I can see this being a great amp when sitting in a mix. The highs must really cut through the rest of the band quite nicely. I'm sure that once the speaker breaks-in, as others have said, I will really love this monster.



I like L2 as well. Gain low volume high hehe. I actually use green clean gain dimed then boosted with a couple of my fav OD pedals for a whole other Marshall feel. Pretty vintage sounding. Either L2 or on the green side I can roll off my guitar volume to get cleans. I don't do heavy modern stuff so the DSL suits me as a rocker and the amp excels there. Blues/rock/hard rock.

Anyways I see you are on to the DSL's goods as I find them too. Have lots of fun and look forward to hearing more of what you find.


----------



## riefil

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I like L2 as well. Gain low volume high hehe. I actually use green clean gain dimed then boosted with a couple of my fav OD pedals for a whole other Marshall feel. Pretty vintage sounding. Either L2 or on the green side I can roll off my guitar volume to get cleans. I don't do heavy modern stuff so the DSL suits me as a rocker and the amp excels there. Blues/rock/hard rock.
> 
> Anyways I see you are on to the DSL's goods as I find them too. Have lots of fun and look forward to hearing more of what you find.



Sounds like we cut from the same cloth


----------



## MarshallDog

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I like L2 as well. Gain low volume high hehe. I actually use green clean gain dimed then boosted with a couple of my fav OD pedals for a whole other Marshall feel. Pretty vintage sounding. Either L2 or on the green side I can roll off my guitar volume to get cleans. I don't do heavy modern stuff so the DSL suits me as a rocker and the amp excels there. Blues/rock/hard rock.
> 
> Anyways I see you are on to the DSL's goods as I find them too. Have lots of fun and look forward to hearing more of what you find.



I have been doing the same and then if you need clean you just turn the OD pedal off...its a win, win...


----------



## USAPatriot

Knopfler said:


> Are everybody agree?
> Is it the best??



No one could ever test every single speaker that could possibly be used in this amp. Somewhere out there, maybe, is some piece of junk for $20.00 that could be the bee's knees, and no one will know about it. There's a lot of engineering and theory that goes into the design of these speakers, and the engineers, on paper, know what the characteristics of a speaker will be even before it's built.
But that doesn't mean it will sound good. THAT is subjective. A Creamback, even my vintage 30, eq'd wrong, will sound like shit. Truth. -Rod-


----------



## lordquilton

Micky said:


> Nope. Way overpriced by comparison to Eminence and WGS.
> 
> For $80 you can have a Swamp Thang or a Vet 30.
> For $100 you can have a Man-O-War.
> 
> All are better than any Celestion IMO. Buy American...



Sigh... here we go again. 
We don't all live on Continental USA Micky. As someone who doesn't live in the U.S., I find your "advice" to buy American _just_ because it's American a little insulting. And if I were to buy American just because it's American, I would buy a Weber for my DSL 40C, FWIW.

"All are better than any Celestion IMO."
This sort of implies you have a lot of experience with Celestion speakers.
Care to back yourself up? Otherwise, it looks kinda like your "opinion" is more truly based on your concern for the American economy. I thought politics wasn't welcome here on the Marshall Forum?

I know you've touted the higher spl's of your Eminence speakers before. Is that what makes them "better"? Doesn't apply to WGS as a rule though, does it? I'm confused! 

Meanwhile, the Eminence Artists Page largely reads like "Who?"

Artists | Eminence Speaker

I recognized 5 names. One of them was a bass player. Of the other 4, none of them specifically use a Marshall, though their signature amps probably have Marshall type circuits.

As against the Celestion Artists pages that reads like the "Who's who of rock and roll".

Partners in Tone - Celestion - Guitar, Bass & Pro Audio Speakers

<snip>


----------



## Micky

People like what they like.

I am sorry you don't live in America.

No really, I am just hooked on Eminence speakers after trying them.
I have been playing since the '70s, and the only Celestions I really like are 25W Greenbacks. But I will bet Eminence has one of those too.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I am not gonna argue about it here.


----------



## Swede

riefil said:


> Marshall or Fender DDRI.



Complete opposites....Like a Stratocaster vs Les Paul...

I love both therefor have both.

Marshall is the sound of my youth though.......You wont get a Marshall to sound like a Fender and vice versa....

Close, but no cigar


----------



## Cajun Player

Good evening,
I'm an old timer who just got a Marshall DSL40C. Brought it home this afternoon and Oh Lordy, Lordy, Lordy.
Granted I am not a speed player or high gain guy. But I have been searching for a long time how to put hair on notes.. not really distortion but just a little zing in there.
My Gibson ES359 Custom, Les Paul Classic (older model.. heavy as heck) and my American Tele all took a liking to this amp... Hair on the notes found. check
this thing growls with the LP.. I cleans up an smacks you in the face with the tele and just plain butters you up with the 359 then drops the hammer.
Next up is the fat strat the maybe the Am Strat... 
Life is sweet.. 60+ years and stumbled into what I had been searching for a very long time.

Thank You Marshall for making an old man smile like a chicken.

Cajun


----------



## Micky

Greetings!

Many new members put a post in the Member Introductions section. You can tell us ALL a little about yourself there.


----------



## PerfectTommy

Hello everyone. New owner of a DSL40. Purchased with the 65W Creamback installed. Absolutely love it, incredible piece of equipment! The information contained in this forum greatly influenced my decision to purchase the amp. 

I must say I don't hear the same "shrill" issues described early in the forum. Strictly due to the speaker? or was there a small change made in production? Just an observation. I haven't had a chance to "crank" the amp per se... Primarily playing in my bedroom with the volume around 2-3 (gain to taste). Couple times a week I go to my buddy's house to jam/learn.

I found it very interesting the evolution of mods made to this amp since this thread's inception. C19 mod in particular. Perhaps I'll try that, but, for now I like the sound enough not to tinker with it still under warranty. Tubes, however, will be of particular interest in the future. I'm fascinated with the effect tubes have on the sound of an amplifier. I figure I'll wait until the speaker breaks (about 15hrs so far) in before start swapping tubes.


----------



## Micky

Nice to have you here. The original Seventy/80 speaker is a bit heavy on the highs for sure, it is nice that Marshall listened to us!


----------



## manofsteel2397

I recently just bought this amp from Sweetwater with the creamback installed must say love the tone haven't quite found that metallica sound I'm looking for but love it for most other heavy rock with my les Paul studio deluxx II


----------



## dave999z

Hey all. Been off the thread for awhile (work, life, etc.). So Sweetwater sells this with a Creamback now... Interesting.

I love this quote: "Guitarists at Sweetwater know that switching to a Celestion speaker is one of the most common amp upgrades.". Umm, the 70/80 is a Celestion.

Anyway, I have been loving my WGS Invader in this amp. Really versatile.


----------



## Pasloade74

dave999z said:


> Hey all. Been off the thread for awhile (work, life, etc.). So Sweetwater sells this with a Creamback now... Interesting.
> 
> I love this quote: "Guitarists at Sweetwater know that switching to a Celestion speaker is one of the most common amp upgrades.". Umm, the 70/80 is a Celestion.
> 
> Anyway, I have been loving my WGS Invader in this amp. Really versatile.



What is it you like about the invader? Ive been thinking about trying that speaker out. The vintage 30 just isn't cutting it anymore. Too much mid for me.


----------



## Micky

manofsteel2397 said:


> I recently just bought this amp from Sweetwater with the creamback installed must say love the tone haven't quite found that metallica sound I'm looking for but love it for most other heavy rock with my les Paul studio deluxx II



Glad to have you here!

Many new members put a post in the Members Introductions section where you can tell us a ALL a little bit about yourself, you could even ask your question there where more might see it.


----------



## dave999z

Pasloade74 said:


> What is it you like about the invader? Ive been thinking about trying that speaker out. The vintage 30 just isn't cutting it anymore. Too much mid for me.



1. The EQ is really nice. Not scooped, but not harsh in the mids. It cured the shrilly highs I was getting with the 70/80.

2. Really dynamic on classic crunch. Strum lightly and you can get nice cleans (not fender, but pretty clear). The cleans on the 70/80 were probably a touch more crystally/fender-y, as it took a bit more to break that speaker up. Dig in and it easily gives you plenty of breakup (overlaps with strumming lightly on lead1).

3. Lead1 (or using an OD pedal in front of green) is a really singing tone.

For the most part it's a warm, soft, rounded, balanced speaker with a lot of depth (sounds like a huge tone). But if you drive the hell out of it it can really burn too. Versatile. And I forget its rating but it's not the loudest speaker, so you can push it a bit more with power tubes and not be blown out of the room.

I know all these adjectives are overused, but that's the best I can describe it.


----------



## Pasloade74

dave999z said:


> 1. The EQ is really nice. Not scooped, but not harsh in the mids. It cured the shrilly highs I was getting with the 70/80.
> 
> 2. Really dynamic on classic crunch. Strum lightly and you can get nice cleans (not fender, but pretty clear). The cleans on the 70/80 were probably a touch more crystally/fender-y, as it took a bit more to break that speaker up. Dig in and it easily gives you plenty of breakup (overlaps with strumming lightly on lead1).
> 
> 3. Lead1 (or using an OD pedal in front of green) is a really singing tone.
> 
> For the most part it's a warm, soft, rounded, balanced speaker with a lot of depth (sounds like a huge tone). But if you drive the hell out of it it can really burn too. Versatile. And I forget its rating but it's not the loudest speaker, so you can push it a bit more with power tubes and not be blown out of the room.
> 
> I know all these adjectives are overused, but that's the best I can describe it.



Great review, I think I'll give it a shot. Thanks.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Pasloade74 said:


> What is it you like about the invader? Ive been thinking about trying that speaker out. The vintage 30 just isn't cutting it anymore. Too much mid for me.




WGS Veteran is a nice alternative to the Vintage 30. Nice warm top end and no honky mids and solid lows

Here is WGS description:
_The 12” Veteran 30™ speaker from WGS is tonally superior to Celestion's™ Vintage 30™ speaker. The tonal improvement is in the upper-mids. The Veteran 30™ speaker has smoothed out the upper-mid "spike" notorious in the Vintage 30™ speaker._


----------



## J.LaGrassa

dave999z said:


> 1. The EQ is really nice. Not scooped, but not harsh in the mids. It cured the shrilly highs I was getting with the 70/80.
> 
> 2. Really dynamic on classic crunch. Strum lightly and you can get nice cleans (not fender, but pretty clear). The cleans on the 70/80 were probably a touch more crystally/fender-y, as it took a bit more to break that speaker up. Dig in and it easily gives you plenty of breakup (overlaps with strumming lightly on lead1).
> 
> 3. Lead1 (or using an OD pedal in front of green) is a really singing tone.
> 
> For the most part it's a warm, soft, rounded, balanced speaker with a lot of depth (sounds like a huge tone). But if you drive the hell out of it it can really burn too. Versatile. And I forget its rating but it's not the loudest speaker, so you can push it a bit more with power tubes and not be blown out of the room.
> 
> I know all these adjectives are overused, but that's the best I can describe it.



I would like to try the Invader some day I think the Reaper HP might be nice as well.


----------



## DaveG1963

Cajun Player said:


> Good evening,
> I'm an old timer who just got a Marshall DSL40C. Brought it home this afternoon and Oh Lordy, Lordy, Lordy.
> Granted I am not a speed player or high gain guy. But I have been searching for a long time how to put hair on notes.. not really distortion but just a little zing in there.
> My Gibson ES359 Custom, Les Paul Classic (older model.. heavy as heck) and my American Tele all took a liking to this amp... Hair on the notes found. check
> this thing growls with the LP.. I cleans up an smacks you in the face with the tele and just plain butters you up with the 359 then drops the hammer.
> Next up is the fat strat the maybe the Am Strat...
> Life is sweet.. 60+ years and stumbled into what I had been searching for a very long time.
> 
> Thank You Marshall for making an old man smile like a chicken.
> 
> Cajun



Cajun welcome aboard! Haven't posted a lot here myself but have read a lot and learning a lot as well. At 51 going on 52 I don't consider myself an old timer yet just old school lol. I too found what I have been searching for as well and purchased a new DSL40 CST from Sweetwater and it arrived yesterday. Had a little time to get to know her and thus far is all I can say is wowsy! Smiling for sure! Can't wait to read this entire thread on the DSL and learn from others what all she has to offer. From what I have read/searched and such this was the best bang for the buck IMO! Here is a pic of her with my go to Lester.


----------



## Swede

J.LaGrassa said:


> I would like to try the Invader some day I think the Reaper HP might be nice as well.



I have the invader in mine and it sounds great


----------



## Rockbustet69

Well my DSL 40C arrived today. First Thing I did was open the back. I don`t know but the stock speaker doesn`t look like rock`n roll to me at all. I know the speakers I love to get my Sound of have way havier magnets than this stock one. So I kicked it out even without trying also based on what I have read on this thread. Personally I believe Marshall saved bucks on this one.

So put in a Celestion G12H-75 heritage. My favourite Speaker with my two Marshall JVM. I got hit by a big sound loaded with bass not trebly or fizzy sounding at all. So Iguess all those people who did the o2 mod could try that Speaker as well and would not need the mod no more. But the mod of course is way cheaper than this speaker. Plus you have to be really carefull about the watts. I only tested it at low level cause I didn`t wanted to fry the speaker. But that Speaker delivers a nice warm vintage tone to the dsl witout fizz or annoying hights.

To me it was even too much bass even with resonance almost dialed out. So my second choice of the day came to work a celestion creamback g12h-75 brand new so not swung in. I already liked that better cause this speaker has kinda the same sound like the heritage but not as much bass and Little bit more treble. Perfect!!! When it is swung in it will Sound warm and big has enough bite and no more worries about watts. 

I have read in this thread that the dsl delivers the same sound as the JVM. To me that is not correct at all!!! The JVM has even more gain potential and more punch and bit more dimesional sound than the DSL does. Since I only played my two JVMs for the last three years I`m pretty used to the jvm Sound. I was hoping for the DSL to be closer to the JVM so I was a bit dissappointed first. But I figured I have to get rid of that expectation and take the dsl as it is, a total different amp on ist own. It is a fine amp for the money. I`m a gainiac and for my taste the DSL could have a bit more gain. 

I Play an Ibanez Tube screamer TS 808 reissue in front of my marshalls but use it just to boost. With that Setup I have gain Setup to 1 o clock at my jvm and get my right amount of gain I want. Same Setup with the DSL but gain set to 4-5 0 clock still is noticeable less gain.

Well so fare for today. Guess I will be heading for TAD preamp tubes pretty soon to check if Marshall used the same philosophy as the did on the Speaker: save bucks at the wrong spot. With my JVM TAD 080 in V1 and mullard style in V2 and V3 works perfect. Should hopefully be the same with the DSL cause these ain`t cheap tubes.

I wait a while for the creamback to come in than I will post some soundfiles. Right now I have kinda mixed feelings if the DSL will become my recording and practise amp but it is way too early to really say since I have to get to know the dsl better yet and I`m too much used to my super perfect JVM tone.


----------



## Len

Who said the DSL sounds like a JVM? To me they are totally different.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

I was bored tonight and out of curiosity I just put my amp back to stock configuration, Marshall tubes and 70/80 speaker and surprisingly I still like the amp like this. My 70/80 has warmed up enough to not be harsh... sometimes I wonder why the hell do I change things when it still sounds good!


----------



## USAPatriot

DaveG1963 said:


> Cajun welcome aboard! Haven't posted a lot here myself but have read a lot and learning a lot as well. At 51 going on 52 I don't consider myself an old timer yet just old school lol. I too found what I have been searching for as well and purchased a new DSL40 CST from Sweetwater and it arrived yesterday. Had a little time to get to know her and thus far is all I can say is wowsy! Smiling for sure! Can't wait to read this entire thread on the DSL and learn from others what all she has to offer. From what I have read/searched and such this was the best bang for the buck IMO! Here is a pic of her with my go to Lester.



Hey that's sweet...except for the plastic beer holder. I guess they put them there for guys that play like Jeff Healey.


----------



## Micky

I have no hard feelings. I guess we can agree to disagree.

I sometimes forget how it is for those who live elsewhere.

It is all good.


----------



## rodd

Putting in creamback g12h-75 is going to make DSL 40 combo heavier again. Can the combos cabinet handle the heavier speakers.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

rodd said:


> Putting in creamback g12h-75 is going to make DSL 40 combo heavier again. Can the combos cabinet handle the heavier speakers.




I had a Eminence CV-75 that had a 56Oz Magnet and it handled it fine but I hated the added weight... I think my right arm is now longer than my left


----------



## lordquilton

My point of view is-
1)You generally get some good advice on this forum, I think that keeps a lot of us coming back.
2)There is a broad range of experience amongst users, and a significant amount of them are pretty new to valve amplifiers, let alone speaker upgrades.
3) The forum is blessed with members from all over the world.
4)Part of the reason why you can get good advice around here is because senior members (hopefully) show some responsibility to inexperienced members with what they post.


When someone says "Nope. Way overpriced by comparison to Eminence and WGS." to me it says "if you live outside of North America, I give absolutely no thought to you in my reply."
Because as I have pointed out before in this thread, American made speakers aren't necessarily cheaper in other parts of the world. It's not a big deal I suppose.


If they say, "If you live in the USA, consider Eminence, WGS etc, they build high quality speakers that offer a great value for money", that would be good advice, thoughtfully given.


When someone says "All (of the above mentioned American speakers) are better than any Celestion IMO." That's cool, it's your opinion, I respect that and appreciate you sharing it. But I didn't ask for your opinion, someone else did. What would they actually get from it?

What you haven't shared is what it is you dislike about Celestion or any other speakers. You know, compare and contrast. I think if you shared that, we might learn something from it.
For example "I think Celestion speakers are too raspy and fart out too soon". See, if I didn't have any experience with different speakers, I just learned something right?
Someone thinks Celestions have such and such a quality, others think something else, and now when I'm listening to speakers I have points of reference; and that helps me start to define what I like. Might save me some money in the long run, maybe?

Members who have been around the block a few times already have an idea of what they like, so someones opinion on speakers isn't as valuable to them.

But if I'm a new guy/gal and I see "All are better than any Celestion IMO. Buy American..." 
what I'm really getting is "I like what I like so you should buy them instead of the _entire line _of another respected brand, based on the unarguable fact that I don't like that brand as much. I don't care to say why, even when invited to. Also buy them because they're made in the country where I live."


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Yep. I am aware, living outside the US, that Eminence may well be MORE expensive than Celestion so I always take that with a grain of salt. I believe Micky was obviously talking about US citizens and no, lordquilton isn't a "hater", just differing opinions as to what to post here. If Micky was *nothing but *buy American, he'd be a Peavey guy, not Marshall!
Which actually, I've quite liked that last 2 I had...
Cheers, all!


----------



## DaveG1963

USAPatriot said:


> Hey that's sweet...except for the plastic beer holder. I guess they put them there for guys that play like Jeff Healey.



Throw me a bone on the plastic beer holder???


----------



## Micky

DaveG1963 said:


> Throw me a bone on the plastic beer holder???


I didn't get it either...


----------



## USAPatriot

I'm ONLY going to say this about it all. My good friend Micky just happened to mention the name "America" at the end of his post. "Buy American" is what he said, and you went off the rails over it. That's your right and we have the right to look at you through the lens of your statements. It makes no difference to me, but at least own up to it. Many people have this inferiority complex when it comes to the US and I fully understand it. Not everyone was so lucky to be born here. Some people see that as a blessing. Others...well, they channel their envy out in hateful ways. I'm not here to change anyone's mind on the matter...but I call 'em as I see 'em. Maybe I'm a blind ump? *I* have Celestions...and I don't take Micky to task over his anti-Celestion worldview. It's his opinion and that is just fine with me. -Rod-


----------



## frankyfal

J.LaGrassa said:


> I was bored tonight and out of curiosity I just put my amp back to stock configuration, Marshall tubes and 70/80 speaker and surprisingly I still like the amp like this. My 70/80 has warmed up enough to not be harsh... sometimes I wonder why the hell do I change things when it still sounds good!


 I've been playing since 1974. Until 6 months ago I only thought you changed tubes and speakers when the good ones that came with the amp broke. Now when I see an amp on CL or I consider getting one new the first thing I do is google to see what mods can be done or what tubes and speakers sound better. WTF?


----------



## Swede

Im the same way Franky...Ive been playing since the mid 80's and I had a long and happy playing life without ever worrying about tubes and speakers...hehehe

Damn forums


----------



## frankyfal

Swede said:


> Im the same way Franky...Ive been playing since the mid 80's and I had a long and happy playing life without ever worrying about tubes and speakers...hehehe
> 
> Damn forums


I just bought a Blackstar. Comes w a Celestion 70/80. I googled the shit out of it and everyone that changed the speaker put the 70/80 back in. They said it sounded the best. I was disappointed for some reason. I WANTED to change it.


----------



## USAPatriot

Rockbustet69 said:


> Well my DSL 40C arrived today. First Thing I did was open the back. I don`t know but the stock speaker doesn`t look like rock`n roll to me at all. I know the speakers I love to get my Sound of have way havier magnets than this stock one. So I kicked it out even without trying also based on what I have read on this thread. Personally I believe Marshall saved bucks on this one.
> 
> So put in a Celestion G12H-75 heritage. My favourite Speaker with my two Marshall JVM. I got hit by a big sound loaded with bass not trebly or fizzy sounding at all. So Iguess all those people who did the o2 mod could try that Speaker as well and would not need the mod no more. But the mod of course is way cheaper than this speaker. Plus you have to be really carefull about the watts. I only tested it at low level cause I didn`t wanted to fry the speaker. But that Speaker delivers a nice warm vintage tone to the dsl witout fizz or annoying hights.
> 
> To me it was even too much bass even with resonance almost dialed out. So my second choice of the day came to work a celestion creamback g12h-75 brand new so not swung in. I already liked that better cause this speaker has kinda the same sound like the heritage but not as much bass and Little bit more treble. Perfect!!! When it is swung in it will Sound warm and big has enough bite and no more worries about watts.
> 
> I have read in this thread that the dsl delivers the same sound as the JVM. To me that is not correct at all!!! The JVM has even more gain potential and more punch and bit more dimesional sound than the DSL does. Since I only played my two JVMs for the last three years I`m pretty used to the jvm Sound. I was hoping for the DSL to be closer to the JVM so I was a bit dissappointed first. But I figured I have to get rid of that expectation and take the dsl as it is, a total different amp on ist own. It is a fine amp for the money. I`m a gainiac and for my taste the DSL could have a bit more gain.
> 
> I Play an Ibanez Tube screamer TS 808 reissue in front of my marshalls but use it just to boost. With that Setup I have gain Setup to 1 o clock at my jvm and get my right amount of gain I want. Same Setup with the DSL but gain set to 4-5 0 clock still is noticeable less gain.
> 
> Well so fare for today. Guess I will be heading for TAD preamp tubes pretty soon to check if Marshall used the same philosophy as the did on the Speaker: save bucks at the wrong spot. With my JVM TAD 080 in V1 and mullard style in V2 and V3 works perfect. Should hopefully be the same with the DSL cause these ain`t cheap tubes.
> 
> I wait a while for the creamback to come in than I will post some soundfiles. Right now I have kinda mixed feelings if the DSL will become my recording and practise amp but it is way too early to really say since I have to get to know the dsl better yet and I`m too much used to my super perfect JVM tone.



Obviously Marshall saved money on the 70/80 versus almost any other speaker, but I think they are to be forgiven that, given that building this particular amp in a low-labor cost market was intended to put an honest to God Marshall tube amp into the hands of people that otherwise couldn't afford it. At some point they have to draw the line on costs. They could have put in cheaper components elsewhere to cut costs while giving us a better speaker, but which one is easiest to swap out? The speaker, hands down, is the easiest component to swap, dead even with the pre amp tubes. They could have gone with bottom of the barrel power tubes, but what with the hazards inherent in swapping them and getting them biased, a less than optimal speaker really is the place to cut costs if one must do so. You've only played the 70/80 at lower levels if I read your post right and as quite a few people will attest to, they feel it's perfectly suitable once it's broken in and some real power applied to it.
I am AMAZED at the numbers of people that claim they've just ordered such and such an amp and before it's even arrived they've already ordered new tubes, new speaker(s), a new transformer, new caps...ESPECIALLY the must-have flux capacitor! (I guess if ya want time based effects, THAT is the one ya just gotta have!) -Rod-


----------



## USAPatriot

frankyfal said:


> I've been playing since 1974. Until 6 months ago I only thought you changed tubes and speakers when the good ones that came with the amp broke. Now when I see an amp on CL or I consider getting one new the first thing I do is google to see what mods can be done or what tubes and speakers sound better. WTF?



LOL. Yeah. We pretty much have the same number of years in and the same experiences. I never bothered with tube swaps or mods until about 2012, I think. I lost 2 amps and 3 guitars to a fire, bought a Line 6 first then quickly traded it in for a Blackstar HT-40. Once I hit the now-defunct Blackstar forum it was all over for me. New tubes, new speakers, new this, mod that. Most of it isn't needed. We've gotten old, scary, bored and we like to tinker, nothing more. It's not like the 50,000 screaming fans we have will ever know the difference. -Rod-


----------



## lordquilton

Eh, I was probably out of line.
Sorry everybody.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

frankyfal said:


> I just bought a Blackstar. Comes w a Celestion 70/80. I googled the shit out of it and everyone that changed the speaker put the 70/80 back in. They said it sounded the best. I was disappointed for some reason. I WANTED to change it.




I had the Blackstar HT40 and also thought the 70/80 sounded very good in that amp once it broke in, nice amp but still like the DSL40 a lot more!


----------



## Micky

The Seventy/80 is a great speaker in a closed cabinet.
It allows the bass to shine thru. 

In the open-back combo I feel there are better options.

Anyone ever use a Celestion Rocket 50?


----------



## solarburn

lordquilton said:


> Eh, I was probably out of line.
> Sorry everybody.



Nah...very civilized actually.

Me...cause Im American...would have said stuff Eminence speakers up your ass Micky cause that's what they sound like...a wet fart.


----------



## solarburn

Usually I prefer Greenback like speakers but I think the 70/80 if given a chance to break in sounds great in the DSL40. I play a lot at volume so mine got broke in quicker than if played at bedroom level. Break in can really make a big difference for a speaker. Speaker rolling gets expensive quick so I'm more practical due to my budget. The 70/80 was a surprise for me. Not bad at all for blues/rock/hard rock I play.


----------



## ken361

Im back with Marshall again! DSL 40!


----------



## Jack's back

Introduced myself but have been reading this thread. I have not read every post by any means, but have found alot of good info. 
I got the DSL40C from Sweetwater last month and it has the creamback in it. It sounds great on the classic crunch channel, and LD1 (with some adjusting). The green clean seems kinda quiet unless I really crank the gain, say to 3-4 o'clock. Need to really work with it more before debuting it at practice. 
As a note, the EL34's in it are Shugangs, pretty sure though I did not even pull one out. They sound pretty good to me though.
Concerned about future tube changes, with particular attention to biasing. Never did it & don't have the equipment. Some of what I read through this thread speaks to this but looking on the webz produces alot of different results when looking for the right testing gear, with a wide range of pricing.


----------



## Micky

Jack's back said:


> Introduced myself but have been reading this thread. I have not read every post by any means, but have found alot of good info.
> I got the DSL40C from Sweetwater last month and it has the creamback in it. It sounds great on the classic crunch channel, and LD1 (with some adjusting). The green clean seems kinda quiet unless I really crank the gain, say to 3-4 o'clock. Need to really work with it more before debuting it at practice.
> As a note, the EL34's in it are Shugangs, pretty sure though I did not even pull one out. They sound pretty good to me though.
> Concerned about future tube changes, with particular attention to biasing. Never did it & don't have the equipment. Some of what I read through this thread speaks to this but looking on the webz produces alot of different results when looking for the right testing gear, with a wide range of pricing.



Biasing info is on the first page of this thread, all you need is a DMM with small clips on the probes.

Get back to us after you have finished every page of this thread. (hahahahahaha!)


----------



## Pasloade74

The first thing I did when I bought this amp was swap the 70/80 for a V30 I had. I never even gave the 70/80a chance outside the store. I recently went back to the 70/80 and started to like what I was hearing. This weekend I'll see how it sounds with the band. Hopefully I'll be pleasantly surprised and put my quest for a new speaker on hold(for now).


----------



## Swede

Micky said:


> Biasing info is on the first page of this thread, all you need is a DMM with small clips on the probes.
> 
> Get back to us after you have finished every page of this thread. (hahahahahaha!)



I just had a Light go off at the top of my head....Ive yet to check the Bias on my DSL40....And now I have a bias prope and the whole 9 yards

I know what Im doing over a cup o joe tomorrow morning:)

And btw......I read every single page of this thread when I joined...lol


----------



## CarlosPrex

Hey everybody, just a quick update
I just want to let you know that now I have one year with my DSL40C and I don´t even think to get rid off it

Everyday sounds better. I´ve just had a rehearsal with my band and it´s killer sound!

For all of you that have not read my comments through this post, mine has a WGS Veteran 30, Winged C (SED) EL34´s, C19 clipped, leds on the footswitch and side handles installed thanks to Micky´s directions help


----------



## Skylarkpilot

Speakers wise.....
I played the amp with the original 70/80 for a while and decided to change it for a Celestion Classic Lead. By the time the new speaker arrived the seventy eighty was starting to break-in and I was sort of starting to like it. I swapped it anyway. Then I picked up a 2x12 loaded with Vintage 30's fairly cheaply and fell in love with the tone.
On the whole Eminence v Celestion thing, over here in Europe they wind up fairly even on price. Rather like the Americans who like to buy American, Brits like me tend to like to buy British. There's nothing wrong with a bit of national pride in the products we produce. Beauty is truly in the eye (or ear) of the beholder and happiness is a personal thing. 'Vive le difference' as the French say.


----------



## solarburn

Jack's back said:


> Introduced myself but have been reading this thread. I have not read every post by any means, but have found alot of good info.
> I got the DSL40C from Sweetwater last month and it has the creamback in it. It sounds great on the classic crunch channel, and LD1 (with some adjusting). The green clean seems kinda quiet unless I really crank the gain, say to 3-4 o'clock. Need to really work with it more before debuting it at practice.
> As a note, the EL34's in it are Shugangs, pretty sure though I did not even pull one out. They sound pretty good to me though.
> Concerned about future tube changes, with particular attention to biasing. Never did it & don't have the equipment. Some of what I read through this thread speaks to this but looking on the webz produces alot of different results when looking for the right testing gear, with a wide range of pricing.



Hey Jack. Try running green clean with gain dimed on the amp and then boost it just a bit with an OD pedal. I've found some great vintage tones doing this...some greasy ones too bordering on fuzz or saggy textures. Pretty fun. Cleans up real quick using guitar volume roll off.

Most players boost the crunch channel but doing the green clean with its gain dimed can be rewarding. I run mine on L2 low gain backing off for cleaner tones and then guitar volume full throttle for hard rock. Great midgain tones in between jus rolling guitar back. Using the green clean boosted gives me a whole other overdrive tone. Personally I don't use L1 much at all due to the fact I find sweeter spots using the other 2 voicings for what I'm playing now. Plus I can use the same amp eq settings with both and have 2 distinct Marshall tones.

Keep experimenting. There are a lot of variations to pull from this amp...


----------



## Swede

So I was going to Bias my DSL40 this morning for the first time, and immediately proceeded to break one of the tubes with my fingers pretty much.....ARRRGGHHH!

Do you guy know if Guitar Center sells power tubes, and any decent ones?

I wanna get this done today.


----------



## Swede

GC only have GT El34s in stock for 59 bux....Gonna check the other stores also


----------



## Swede

Electro-Harmonix EL34 Power Tube (Pair) $39.99 @ Sam ash


----------



## frankyfal

Nice speaker. Sorry bout the tube. That sux. Best to get a matched set and use the Marshall as a spare? So you can check the bias from the tube socket and you dont have to remove the chassis? Do you measure them them separate and add the total together each say 18mv?


----------



## Swede

I am using my bias probe. Heading up to Sam Ash on Sunset right now


----------



## Micky

frankyfal said:


> Nice speaker. Sorry bout the tube. That sux. Best to get a matched set and use the Marshall as a spare? So you can check the bias from the tube socket and you dont have to remove the chassis? Do you measure them them separate and add the total together each say 18mv?



No, 30-40 each side...


----------



## Micky

This is a NO-NO.

Can anyone tell me why? (Apart from the broken tube...)


----------



## Swede

Micky said:


> This is a NO-NO.
> 
> Can anyone tell me why? (Apart from the broken tube...)



???

This cab goes with my Plexi, not the DSL
OOpps changed picture.

Whats wrong?


----------



## Swede

Its not plugged in or powered up at least


----------



## Swede

I'll take a guess. The positive and negative is hanging too close to each other for safety?

They are pulled apart now


----------



## frankyfal

Micky said:


> This is a NO-NO.
> 
> Can anyone tell me why? (Apart from the broken tube...)


The speaker wasn't made in the USA? 


JK


----------



## Micky

Up yours Franky.

Nope and nope. It is in plain sight.
Why is this a potentially DANGEROUS situation?


----------



## frankyfal

Micky said:


> Up yours Franky.
> 
> Nope and nope. It is in plain sight.
> Why is this a potentially DANGEROUS situation?


He could get tripped up on the footswitch or the ext cab wire?


----------



## Swede

It is a speaker cable not a guitar cable connecting the amp and cab


----------



## Micky

Nope and Nope.

Keep trying...

It is in plain sight...


----------



## frankyfal

Micky said:


> Nope and Nope.
> 
> Keep trying...
> 
> It is in plain sight...


The wire is touching the unbroken power tube and will melt when he turns on the amp?


----------



## Rockbustet69

@swede: Good luck to you to get your dsl running again pretty soon.

Played a Little more with my brand new dsl 40c. I replaced the Speaker cable today with a thicker cable (2,5cm square diameter) which had a positive impact on the Sound at the lows. It is not really a major difference but but nice minor Change for the better. Switshing from Triode to Pentode mode really surprised me most what major influence that does have on sound. Since I was playing at home I only had the dsl in the Triode mode. I liked that Sound but I was missing the agression in the hights the real marshall bite. One switsh and boom there it was going in the Pentode mode. So I guess the rockheads wanting the agressive vibe should play the dsl in Pnetode mode even at lower levels and the vintage People looking for a classic warm tone most likely will be best suited with the Triode mode. 

I just checked the prive for the 70/80 Speaker in Germany it is around 48 bux as creamback for example costs 130 bux. This kinda feeds my theory that marshall just placed that speaker inside the combo cause it is really cheap. I just hope they rethink their philosophy cause somehow money is beeing saved at the wrong spot. No surprise so many peolpe reported in this thread they are much happier with a differnt speaker inside this Combo.


----------



## Micky

Still no one sees the problem in the photo?


----------



## Swede

I cant figure out the problem Micky, but im sitting here with my new tubes ready to install....but if there is an issue you can see makes me hold on.


----------



## Swede

speaker cable in the wrong input?

2 16 ohm speakeres become 8 ohm right?


----------



## Swede

should u always bias in Pentode mode maybe?


----------



## Swede

the head actually needs to be out of the box to bias,,,hehe


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Dunno. Is it cause he has an open bias probe with no tube attached waiting for the amp to be fired up which is sending current to the unconnected clips? Hey I'm guessing here!


----------



## Swede

Whats the issue???

Im all set up minus amp turned on.

single amp speaker in to 16 ohm input. Full 40 watt mode. everything plugged in ready to go?


----------



## Swede

Both tubes are sitting at 37.2 right now....will recheck in awhile


----------



## frankyfal

Nice. What kind of tubes Swede?


----------



## Swede

Cheapies from Sam Ash....Russian made Electro Harmonix EL34's


----------



## frankyfal

I stripped the nut off the chassis when I opened mine. I had to use a clip nut and a different screw to put chassis back. Colored the screw with marker so it didn't look like shit


----------



## solarburn

Micky said:


> This is a NO-NO.
> 
> Can anyone tell me why? (Apart from the broken tube...)



Well in this pic he has 2 speaker cables plugged in to amp taps(jacks). That's a load problem problem.


----------



## Swede

Hey Solar....Im not sure if you saw the pic on the last page, how i biased it (1 speaker only btw)

But why would it be an issue with 2 speakers when biasing?

That is how I run my amp?


----------



## Swede

A little drifting...seem to hold both at 37.8/9


----------



## solarburn

Swede said:


> Hey Solar....Im not sure if you saw the pic on the last page, how i biased it (1 speaker only btw)
> 
> But why would it be an issue with 2 speakers when biasing?
> 
> That is how I run my amp?



I saw you biased with one speaker or tap on the other pic. As long as the OT is loaded correctly or proper impedance is connected you're fine while biasing. In the first pic I thought you forgot to unplug the internal speaker while using the other cab creating an improper load.

I'm not a tech though. I like how you are questioning info. Good.


----------



## Swede

All done and put together....All is well in the household


----------



## Micky

In the initial photo he has connected his bias probe to the amp WITHOUT plugging it into the meter FIRST.

In that photo there is 465 VDC on that red banana plug just 2 inches from a grounded speaker plug.

Is the amp turned on? Hope not.


My point is that people need to follow the instructions for a bias probe EVERY time EXACTLY.

I am embarrassed none of you saw that right away... huge disappoint...


----------



## Swede

The amp was not turned on


----------



## Micky

Swede said:


> The amp was not turned on



Glad things worked out.

But that is the reason I cannot recommend bias probes.
Too much that can go wrong...


----------



## Jethro Rocker

To be fair to me, my probe has no meter, it reads PV and bias voltage. I see what you mean, though, running that kind of voltage to a meter contact hanging around...
Glad it worked for you!


----------



## rodd

Channel L2 with the mid boost is nice for my Strat


----------



## solarburn

Micky said:


> In the initial photo he has connected his bias probe to the amp WITHOUT plugging it into the meter FIRST.
> 
> In that photo there is 465 VDC on that red banana plug just 2 inches from a grounded speaker plug.
> 
> Is the amp turned on? Hope not.
> 
> 
> My point is that people need to follow the instructions for a bias probe EVERY time EXACTLY.
> 
> I am embarrassed none of you saw that right away... huge disappoint...



Did you pm swede and tell him right off what harm may come? That he could electrocute himself left undone? You cared enough to mention it so I'm assuming you cared for his well being. I know some would pass it off as stupidity but I believe you are more helpful than that. The reason I mention this a lot of time passed.

I can see testing peeps and teaching especially for safety sake but also telling someone right off if indeed a hazard like this may happen to them if not corrected immediately. No one needs to have this consideration assigned them. Would be a decent thing for us to do for one another. Good job Micky.

Embarrassed and huge disappointment? Sorry Dad...good thing you were here amongst us embarrassments.lol

Probes used correctly are fine unless the probes a piece of shit. Especially for us guys that have shaky hands or tremors.


----------



## Swede

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Did you pm swede and tell him right off what harm may come? That he could electrocute himself left undone? You cared enough to mention it so I'm assuming you cared for his well being. I know some would pass it off as stupidity but I believe you are more helpful than that. The reason I mention this a lot of time passed.
> 
> I can see testing peeps and teaching especially for safety sake but also telling someone right off if indeed a hazard like this may happen to them if not corrected immediately. No one needs to have this consideration assigned them. Would be a decent thing for us to do for one another. Good job Micky.
> 
> Embarrassed and huge disappointment? Sorry Dad...good thing you were here amongst us embarrassments.lol
> 
> Probes used correctly are fine unless the probes a piece of shit. Especially for us guys that have shaky hands or tremors.



Love the bias probes....Amp was never turned on in the first place.......I might not know electronics very well, but I am certainly not born yesterday

I do appreciate your concern though as this indeed is potentially very dangerous stuff


----------



## solarburn

Swede said:


> Love the bias probes....Amp was never turned on in the first place.......I might not know electronics very well, but I am certainly not born yesterday
> 
> I do appreciate your concern though as this indeed is potentially very dangerous stuff



Yeah I've been using probes since holding to a testing point became hazardous for me.

I'm not scolding you swede. I know Micky was trying to see if we could figure it out too. Just consideration to letting someone know right away so they don't take a bad bite or fatal hit while the rest of us are guessing.

I have learned a great deal from the techs here especially from a few that left us. Really great assets to have and appreciate the direction given freely. Techs aren't cheap and some real Jack offs. I know some good ones.


----------



## frankyfal

Swede do you notice a sound difference with the new power tubes?? 

Hopefully the next new amp I buy will have bias test points and a potentiometer easily accessible on the back panel. Even better. A digital display next to the pot with an on off switch so you can see the voltage when needed and just slip a small screwdriver in and adjust.


----------



## lordquilton

frankyfal said:


> Swede do you notice a sound difference with the new power tubes??
> 
> Hopefully the next new amp I buy will have bias test points and a potentiometer easily accessible on the back panel. Even better. A digital display next to the pot with an on off switch so you can see the voltage when needed and just slip a small screwdriver in and adjust.




Sound like you're buying a Mesa, you lucky dawg!


----------



## Micky

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I can see testing peeps and teaching especially for safety sake but also telling someone right off if indeed a hazard like this may happen to them if not corrected immediately. No one needs to have this consideration assigned them. Would be a decent thing for us to do for one another. Good job Micky.



I knew Swede would be OK. No worries there.

It is just the other thread about probes where I said they really weren't necessary when you have a meter and the test points already available. Besides, to adjust the bias you need to pull the chassis anyway...

Yeah, Mesa could teach Marshall a lot...


----------



## J.LaGrassa

frankyfal said:


> I stripped the nut off the chassis when I opened mine. I had to use a clip nut and a different screw to put chassis back. Colored the screw with marker so it didn't look like shit




lol I did the same thing I had 2 of them fall out!


----------



## J.LaGrassa

I have a bias probe but don't use it with the Marshall, since I have the chassis out I just use Marshalls test points.


----------



## solarburn

Micky said:


> I knew Swede would be OK. No worries there.
> 
> It is just the other thread about probes where I said they really weren't necessary when you have a meter and the test points already available. Besides, to adjust the bias you need to pull the chassis anyway...
> 
> Yeah, Mesa could teach Marshall a lot...



Yeah I had assumed he wasn't ready yet cause he hadn't pulled it from the chassis.

Even with the test points I have to use alligator clips. I get random tremors in my hands that bounce the test lead around. So for me the probes help although I also test their reading to the test pin readings just to make sure numbers are there.

Oh and wish bias test points were outside the chassis easily accessible with all my amps. I hate moving around the inside of a high voltage amp with shaky hands!


----------



## solarburn

J.LaGrassa said:


> I have a bias probe but don't use it with the Marshall, since I have the chassis out I just use Marshalls test points.



The DSL50 has the bias pots outside with the test points. Wonder why Marshall opted to put the bias pots inside so the chassis needs pulling... I was disappointed with that. It was an easy check if you wanted to see where your power tubes were after a tube change. I liked checking them a few times after playing a few sessions and as they get hours on them.


----------



## frankyfal

J.LaGrassa said:


> lol I did the same thing I had 2 of them fall out!



I remember. It was your post and pic that showed me how.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

solarburnDSL50 said:


> The DSL50 has the bias pots outside with the test points. Wonder why Marshall opted to put the bias pots inside so the chassis needs pulling... I was disappointed with that. It was an easy check if you wanted to see where your power tubes were after a tube change. I liked checking them a few times after playing a few sessions and as they get hours on them.




Yeah I rember that from when i had the DSL50 definitely a lot more convenient.


----------



## Swede

frankyfal said:


> Swede do you notice a sound difference with the new power tubes??
> 
> Hopefully the next new amp I buy will have bias test points and a potentiometer easily accessible on the back panel. Even better. A digital display next to the pot with an on off switch so you can see the voltage when needed and just slip a small screwdriver in and adjust.



I honestly dont know....It sounds GREAT, but better, Im not sure. When I changed tubes in my plexi I could tell pretty easy it got better, granted I changed from 6CA7's to EL34's so maybe that is slightly more of a difference.


----------



## ken361

Rocked out the DSL at my girls condo,it kicks ass and roars.


----------



## USAPatriot

solarburnDSL50 said:


> The DSL50 has the bias pots outside with the test points. Wonder why Marshall opted to put the bias pots inside so the chassis needs pulling... I was disappointed with that. It was an easy check if you wanted to see where your power tubes were after a tube change. I liked checking them a few times after playing a few sessions and as they get hours on them.



Being able to check the PV and adjust bias externally is nice and convenient but I suspect that amp makers also look at it as a liability issue. I'd like to externalize it all on my DSL40C, for sure, but also recognize that it's another potential hazard. -Rod-


----------



## Micky

USAPatriot said:


> Being able to check the PV and adjust bias externally is nice and convenient but I suspect that amp makers also look at it as a liability issue. I'd like to externalize it all on my DSL40C, for sure, but also recognize that it's another potential hazard. -Rod-



If done properly it is actually much safer. There was someone here that did it, and it looked professional to me...

Think abut it - You have millivolts on a connector on the back panel. You have 2 locking trimpots there as well. 

There is no need to remove the chassis so the potential for electrical hazard is minimized, and the wear and tear on the nuts bolts and other stuff is gone. Plus, you don't risk damaging anything on the chassis because you aren't removing it. 

I would love to do it to ALL my amps...


----------



## jimmyjames

I'm considering getting this done,+ Ultra 1 mods, to my 15H


----------



## Skylarkpilot

Hi Guys,
I know we've been around the block a few times on the subject of bias but.....
Today I actually had loads of time on my hands so I was doing a re-bias and swapping some tubes around. I use the same TAD EL34Bstr tubes as Micky but I noticed over the space of about an hour my PV was slowly changing between around 425 at the lowest and 440 at the top end. Is this down to wall voltage variation do you think, or should I be looking a bit deeper into the beast ?


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> If done properly it is actually much safer. There was someone here that did it, and it looked professional to me...
> 
> Think abut it - You have millivolts on a connector on the back panel. You have 2 locking trimpots there as well.
> 
> There is no need to remove the chassis so the potential for electrical hazard is minimized, and the wear and tear on the nuts bolts and other stuff is gone. Plus, you don't risk damaging anything on the chassis because you aren't removing it.
> 
> I would love to do it to ALL my amps...



I remember seeing that pic and it was great work. I wish I knew where it was. I knew I should have saved it. But...externalizing the PV isn't the same as just having bias pots out there with a few dozen mV. It's 400+ volts and just too accessible to people that maybe shouldn't have access to it, be they inexperienced owners, snoopy relatives or a dog sniffing around. *I* wouldn't have a problem with it but ya can't say that's universal. Pulling a chassis is like handling rattlesnakes...we know the hazard is there. An innocuous set of sockets on the back of an amp...some people will be unaware of the hazards, even if they have no business with their nose back there. Just sayin' -Rod-


----------



## USAPatriot

Skylarkpilot said:


> Hi Guys,
> I know we've been around the block a few times on the subject of bias but.....
> Today I actually had loads of time on my hands so I was doing a re-bias and swapping some tubes around. I use the same TAD EL34Bstr tubes as Micky but I noticed over the space of about an hour my PV was slowly changing between around 425 at the lowest and 440 at the top end. Is this down to wall voltage variation do you think, or should I be looking a bit deeper into the beast ?



Did you check the wall voltage? If you live in an older area and if heaters are running in the cold, your voltage could definitely be pulled down or let back up. I'd redo it and chart the voltage at the plate while also checking the voltage at the wall. It should be easy to spot a correlation. You expect some variation over time but 15V in an hour seems a bit much, at least in my house. If your oven or furnace is on the same circuit, you could be doing it to yourself too. I'd look into that before I looked deeper into the amp. -Rod-


----------



## rpinon69

Hello

Just got a deal on a Eminence CV-75 on eBay but it is 8 ohm!

Just to make sure after installing all I have to do is connect it to one of the 8 ohm inputs, which I assume are for a multijack cabinet in stereo or two separate cabinets. Is this correct?

Thanks Guys!


----------



## Micky

rpinon69 said:


> Hello
> 
> Just got a deal on a Eminence CV-75 on eBay but it is 8 ohm!
> 
> Just to make sure after installing all I have to do is connect it to one of the 8 ohm inputs, which I assume are for a multijack cabinet in stereo or two separate cabinets. Is this correct?
> 
> Thanks Guys!



Yes.


----------



## Micky

USAPatriot said:


> I remember seeing that pic and it was great work. I wish I knew where it was. I knew I should have saved it. But...externalizing the PV isn't the same as just having bias pots out there with a few dozen mV. It's 400+ volts and just too accessible to people that maybe shouldn't have access to it, be they inexperienced owners, snoopy relatives or a dog sniffing around. *I* wouldn't have a problem with it but ya can't say that's universal. Pulling a chassis is like handling rattlesnakes...we know the hazard is there. An innocuous set of sockets on the back of an amp...some people will be unaware of the hazards, even if they have no business with their nose back there. Just sayin' -Rod-



No need to bring that voltage to the back panel.
It is not like it changes enough to have to re-calc the bias.

Measure it once. Figure your bias range. Set the bias in that range.

This isn't rocket science...


----------



## rpinon69

Micky said:


> Yes.



Thank you!


----------



## manofsteel2397

Anybody experience a speaker thumping sound when cranked up is this normal thinking I have two much bass in the eq or have a bad amp I do have the 65 creamback upgrade from Sweetwater


----------



## rpinon69

Micky said:


> No need to bring that voltage to the back panel.
> It is not like it changes enough to have to re-calc the bias.
> 
> Measure it once. Figure your bias range. Set the bias in that range.
> 
> This isn't rocket science...




http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...dsl40c-information-thread-67.html#post1140306

Is this the post?#1984


----------



## rodd

rpinon69 said:


> http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...dsl40c-information-thread-67.html#post1140306
> 
> Is this the post?#1984


Is it possible to shift the external testpoints and trimpots inside the cab so access is after taking the back panel off. Otherwise I'd like that mod done to mine .


----------



## chheww

Does anyone know if the classic gain and ultra gain are opposite polarities/phase?


----------



## rodd

Can we drill holes into the bottom of the chassis and pcb board to access the trimpot adjustments


----------



## J.LaGrassa

manofsteel2397 said:


> Anybody experience a speaker thumping sound when cranked up is this normal thinking I have two much bass in the eq or have a bad amp I do have the 65 creamback upgrade from Sweetwater




The low end can get a bit thumpy (is that a word) if you have to much lows dialed in, try keeping the Resonance lower at louder volumes that should minimize the excessive low end. The Creamback 65 is an excellent speaker I like mine but you got to not overdue it with the lows.


----------



## Duffy49

Rahlstin said:


> Did a rehersal tonight with it, turned it up to 6, significantly louder than 3.... sounded great. Cranked it up to 10.... not too much louder but it really started to sing. Its a pretty loud little amp. Sure sounds good.



Yeah! Get Down! Alright! Dig this! Etc.

What was that?? Did you say something??


----------



## Micky

rodd said:


> Is it possible to shift the external testpoints and trimpots inside the cab so access is after taking the back panel off. Otherwise I'd like that mod done to mine .



Yes, anything is possible.

Putting these controls and test points on the top (bottom) of the chassis makes a lot of sense. It keeps them away from 'stray' adjustment and protects them in comparison to installation on the back panel.

Plus there is much more room...


----------



## Rockbustet69

manofsteel2397 said:


> Anybody experience a speaker thumping sound when cranked up is this normal thinking I have two much bass in the eq or have a bad amp I do have the 65 creamback upgrade from Sweetwater



I have the original celestion creamback inside. Which mode are you in Pentode or Triode? The power reduction mode sounds way more bassy than the full mode. If you like the agressiv marshall sounds esp. in the hights you gotta switsh to the full (Pentode) mode.


----------



## Roger Tyria

Micky said:


> Yes, anything is possible.
> 
> Putting these controls and test points on the top (bottom) of the chassis makes a lot of sense. It keeps them away from 'stray' adjustment and protects them in comparison to installation on the back panel.
> 
> Plus there is much more room...



I put them in the back so I didn't have to remove the back panel to check / adjust the bias. I did use locking trim pots so they have to be loosened to make adjustments. But anywhere outside is a benefit over pulling the chassis to adjust is a bonus.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

chheww said:


> Does anyone know if the classic gain and ultra gain are opposite polarities/phase?



 ? Classic gain adjusts gain for channel one, ultra gain adjusts gain for channel 2, not sure why that would ever be.


----------



## chheww

Jethro Rocker said:


> ? Classic gain adjusts gain for channel one, ultra gain adjusts gain for channel 2, not sure why that would ever be.



just so I can be sure when I'm in running the amp in a dual stereo set up with a different amp. So I can know if it will flip the phase, putting the two amps out of phase with each other.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Gotcha. I can't imagine, if you use something like the Radial ABY switcher, dpending on your setup, it has a polarity and ground lift switch on it.


----------



## manofsteel2397

I believe I was in full 40 watt mode sounded great at around 2 but turned it up to 6 or 7 just to see how loud it goes and got a really bad hiss that went away after I moved away from the amp not normal feed back but a hiss then while playing the speaker sounded like it couldn't handle the bass very noticeable thump when playing muted low e had the eq at 10 2 10 10 10


----------



## Coronado

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I first bought the Ac5+ and put it in V2 and found it took away the classic out of my rock tone and it made it more modern. Lows and highs screwed up the meat in the mids I prefer with the RFT. Also sounded like volume increased. I never did put it in V1 to see how it did there. I will later. I actually meant to buy the AC7+ but foo barred. I did a lot of rolling with my NOS tubes and what sounded great in my DSL50 is not panning out in the DSL40.





solarburnDSL50 said:


> Up until now I liked the stock V1 preamp tube over my high dollar ones. I always tune V1&V2 up first. Then I fill in the last slots. The AC7+ was a solid buy cause it sounds good and makes my playing a little more bouncy. Responsiveness seems better. Most of all it doesn't take away the meaty mids of V2's RFT.




Hey Solarburn - was looking through some old posts on the DSL40 thread and wanted to say thanks again for the great tip on the Ruby 12ax7AC7HG+. I've really grown to love this tube and even bought a handful more and put 2 of them in my JCM 800, and even pulled the RCA 7025 out of my 74' 1987 MKII 50 watt and put in a AC7HG+ in V1. I dig the RCA, but needed a bit more kick. This tube has become a favorite of mine and I've recommended it to several friends. And you can’t beat it for 15 bucks!! Thanks again!


----------



## solarburn

Coronado said:


> Hey Solarburn - was looking through some old posts on the DSL40 thread and wanted to say thanks again for the great tip on the Ruby 12ax7AC7HG+. I've really grown to love this tube and even bought a handful more and put 2 of them in my JCM 800, and even pulled the RCA 7025 out of my 74' 1987 MKII 50 watt and put in a AC7HG+ in V1. I dig the RCA, but needed a bit more kick. This tube has become a favorite of mine and I've recommended it to several friends. And you can’t beat it for 15 bucks!! Thanks again!



It's been a great V1.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

manofsteel2397 said:


> I believe I was in full 40 watt mode sounded great at around 2 but turned it up to 6 or 7 just to see how loud it goes and got a really bad hiss that went away after I moved away from the amp not normal feed back but a hiss then while playing the speaker sounded like it couldn't handle the bass very noticeable thump when playing muted low e had the eq at 10 2 10 10 10



I assume you mean treble10, mid2, bass10, pres10, reso10? That soinds like a bit of a mids not cutting through problem plus 10 bass and 10 reso would be way too high at that volume, I personally would find it way to high at 3 but that's me! Nothing to worry about I would say, just too high a bass setting for that volume.


----------



## lordquilton

I was recording a little while back, trying to get a scooped sort of sound. Even with the master on 3 (red channel) the Creamback 65 was losing coherency if the resonance was too high.
I would think if you're going to run that speaker at even higher volumes and you don't want it breaking up like that, you should probably roll Bass and Resonance right back to begin with. 
Then bring up Bass to where it sounds full without flubbing out. Bring Resonance back in last. At that volume I'd be surprised if you needed to turn the Resonance control past 3-5.


----------



## manofsteel2397

I really don't plan on playing that loud I really only play in my bedroom every now and then I will get together with my old bass player and jam but with work and kids time is an issue I was really just seeing how loud the amp plays so I'm guessing that at higher volumes different eq settings are required my last amp was a carvin half stack but I never had to turn that up past 2 or 3 in a very loud band setting so I never had to adjust the eq much when changing volumes


----------



## manofsteel2397

I have found the amp sounds best when the bass treble and mids are around the5 position my les Paul really growls and get a wicked tone but I do love the scooped sound of metallica and such so I will have to keep experimenting only had this amp since just after Christmas and really only had a chance to play it about 4 times as I said time is an issue wish it had a headphone jack


----------



## dave999z

manofsteel2397 said:


> I really don't plan on playing that loud. I really only play in my bedroom. every now and then I will get together with my old bass player and jam, but, with work and kids, time is an issue. I was really just seeing how loud the amp plays, so I'm guessing that, at higher volumes, different eq settings are required. my last amp was a carvin half stack, but I never had to turn that up past 2 or 3 in a very loud band setting, so I never had to adjust the eq much when changing volumes.



Hey, don't mean any offense, but I'm just curious why the lack of punctuation? It makes it hard to read your posts. So I added periods and commas.


----------



## dave999z

Hey all, just checking back in to report that I have found this setup to be just stellar in this amp. Super wide range of tones, and sounds just beautiful...

V1 Ruby 12ax7ac7 HG+
V2 Mullard Reissue
V3 TAD 7025 WA
V4 Ruby 12ax7acg HG

Groove Tubes GT-EL34M matched pair

WGS Invader


----------



## dave999z

P.S. Both channels sound great, but I frequently I'm just running my strat into a tube screamer into the green channel (because I play at home a lot to a looper pedal, and if you want to play an overdrive tone over a clean chord progression, you have to use a gain pedal in front of the looper). Straight into red is a killer OD tone. But a tube screamer into green is really nice too!


----------



## USAPatriot

rpinon69 said:


> http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...dsl40c-information-thread-67.html#post1140306
> 
> Is this the post?#1984



That IS the one, yes! The idea behind also externalizing the PV is so that one doesn't need to pull out the chassis to measure voltage when changing tubes or if gigging in a strange location where power may be an issue. May as well go all the way if one is going to do it at all. Thanks for finding that  -Rod-


----------



## lordquilton

dave999z said:


> Hey, don't mean any offense, but I'm just curious why the lack of punctuation? It makes it hard to read your posts. So I added periods and commas.


 
Aw, come on! He said time was an issue! 

Good work though dave999z, balance has been restored.


----------



## ken361

manofsteel2397 said:


> I have found the amp sounds best when the bass treble and mids are around the5 position my les Paul really growls and get a wicked tone but I do love the scooped sound of metallica and such so I will have to keep experimenting only had this amp since just after Christmas and really only had a chance to play it about 4 times as I said time is an issue wish it had a headphone jack



Same here 4+ mines new though.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

ken361 said:


> Same here 4+ mines new though.



My EQ controls are roughly set anywhere from 11:00 to 1:00 depends on my volume and gain setting.


----------



## manofsteel2397

J.LaGrassa said:


> Here is clip I recorded just playing to a backing track, its the DSL40C with the Creamback 65. I used my PRS McCarty straight into the amp and a little delay in the loop. Never played to this track before so there are a few clams but it was fun playing to it, I recorded it with my Tascam DR-05 about 2 feet away from the amp and the backing track was coming out of a speaker next to my amp. only thing I did was normalized the level and added some compression after it was recorded.
> 
> [SC]https://soundcloud.com/jlagrassa-1/slow-jam[/SC]





dave999z said:


> Hey, don't mean any offense, but I'm just curious why the lack of punctuation? It makes it hard to read your posts. So I added periods and commas.



Yea, sorry grammar is not my best subject lol, plus typing on a smart phone.


----------



## atrox

Hi all. Just got my DSL40C with Creamback last week and it smokes. Did the C19 mod first thing (i've owned a few of the JCM2000 heads and always did this mod on them. Though on those heads it's C12). I also slapped tung-sol's in V1 and V2. Have Ruby's on the way for power. I use it for an indie project as traveling with my stack to coffee houses was overkill. 

I gotta say, i love this little guy. It sounds big. Doesn't have that combo boxiness that many have. It cuts right through. Using crunch mode with my Green Rhino boost really can get close to my 2203's tones. Nice amp. Im'ma keep it.

rig shot





practical shot


----------



## J.LaGrassa

atrox said:


> Hi all. Just got my DSL40C with Creamback last week and it smokes. Did the C19 mod first thing (i've owned a few of the JCM2000 heads and always did this mod on them. Though on those heads it's C12). I also slapped tung-sol's in V1 and V2. Have Ruby's on the way for power. I use it for an indie project as traveling with my stack to coffee houses was overkill.
> 
> I gotta say, i love this little guy. It sounds big. Doesn't have that combo boxiness that many have. It cuts right through. Using crunch mode with my Green Rhino boost really can get close to my 2203's tones. Nice amp. Im'ma keep it.
> 
> rig shot
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> practical shot



Welcome to the club!


----------



## Swede

dave999z said:


> Hey all, just checking back in to report that I have found this setup to be just stellar in this amp. Super wide range of tones, and sounds just beautiful...
> 
> V1 Ruby 12ax7ac7 HG+
> V2 Mullard Reissue
> V3 TAD 7025 WA
> V4 Ruby 12ax7acg HG
> 
> Groove Tubes GT-EL34M matched pair
> 
> WGS Invader



Pretty damn close to how my DSL40 is set up too.....


----------



## ken361

How is it next to the 800?


----------



## atrox

J.LaGrassa said:


> Welcome to the club!



 Thank You!



ken361 said:


> How is it next to the 800?



The 800 is beefy and a tad smoother. Mid structures a tad different, but they are close. You know. The 2203's are beasts. 

I only got rid of my old DSL's because the 2203 just had a certain something that i could not get out of a DSL. That said, should my 2203 ever die, it would get replaced with a DSL100. 

I actually like the vietnamese DSL's a bit more than the old JCM2000's. The new ones are a bit more articulate and the resonance is a nice feature. 

One thing i never touch on the DSL's is the mid scoop button though. I'm surprised they kept that feature. In the bedroom, it sounds OK, but in a band situation, i can imagine getting lost in a mix quickly.


----------



## ken361

Good to know! dont like the scoop thing also


----------



## ken361

All the tubes handwired to the chassis on the 2000's? least they did the power tubes on the new ones. Could of used plywood at least


----------



## atrox

ken361 said:


> All the tubes handwired to the chassis on the 2000's? least they did the power tubes on the new ones. Could of used plywood at least



If i remember correctly, they were on their own board on the 2000's


----------



## ken361

RFT's still popular on here? I have I tried in the V1 seems pretty nice on the lead and cleans. Not really that dark on lead channel at least at low volume it might be a keeper!


----------



## rpinon69

Hello

What type of disasters can you expect if you run the 16 ohm jack connected to a 8 ohm speaker? 

As we all know everything you read on the internet is true (ha ha), but I did read on another forum that if the head or amp can handle it you get more volume or punch.

Gentlemen could you please clarify!

Thanks


----------



## Micky

Always best to match amp to speaker load to prevent damage.


----------



## Dizzyg12

Well....still loving my dsl40. I'm going to have to open her up though. She's getting a bit noisy. I though it was something on my pedal board since I added a couple things but I took the board complete out of the equation today and plugged straight in it's the same noise level. Just a buzz with the high gain channel. Clean is fine. Crunch is fine. The other channel though is bothersome. Still sounds great but the noise when I'm not playing is a pain.

I have spare tubes for every spot so I'll roll em and check the bias. 

Party on.....


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

Dizzyg12 said:


> Well....still loving my dsl40. I'm going to have to open her up though. She's getting a bit noisy. I though it was something on my pedal board since I added a couple things but I took the board complete out of the equation today and plugged straight in it's the same noise level. Just a buzz with the high gain channel. Clean is fine. Crunch is fine. The other channel though is bothersome. Still sounds great but the noise when I'm not playing is a pain.
> 
> I have spare tubes for every spot so I'll roll em and check the bias.
> 
> Party on.....



I had the same issue. It ended up being a bad pre-amp tube. Problem is, I didn't chuck it and now it's in my tube box. It'll probably be the first one I try to put back in.


----------



## twd2550

Quick question: I was checking the plate voltage which I have done a few times in the past and in a stupid move the probe slipped off of pin 3 and touched pin 4 it sizzled for a couple of seconds then the amp went dead. Any thoughts on what happened?


----------



## Micky

Your clumsiness has initiated the creation of a singularity.
Thank you for the warning.
We only have a couple days before the Earth implodes in the gravity of a black hole....

All you can do is check all the fuses and replace any blown ones.
Better hurry, humanity hasn't much time left...


----------



## mickeydg5

twd2550 said:


> Quick question: I was checking the plate voltage which I have done a few times in the past and in a stupid move the probe slipped off of pin 3 and touched pin 4 it sizzled for a couple of seconds then the amp went dead. Any thoughts on what happened?


 Are you sure it was pin #4 and not pin #2?


----------



## twd2550

Happened kind of quick so it could have been 2.


----------



## twd2550

found the blown fuse: thanks! demise of humanity averted!!


----------



## ken361

My first time jamming the amp I was pretty impressed and I owned a lot including a JVM it was ok not great loud kinda tight and bright, didnt own a Gibson at the time. Had Vox Hw,
Peavey,Fender twin,blues deluxe, Mesa Mini,Engl one of my fav's. I always adjust my pup heights and pole pieces that makes a nice difference in a smooth pup! So if your amps bright bring the poles up towards the middle by 2 turns or so,maybe the bridge is set too high on the pup? Had good results with a Tungsol in the V1,v2 JJ803 for warmth!! v3 goldlion also a good v1 v4 stock for now I can use my Sylvania. My main guitar is a Traditional Pro II with 57's and a super 57's in the bridge it rips! I set the treb and mids at 10 to 11 o clock to keep the brightness down and bass at 2 o clock. I dont find it that bright like people say I was playing loud and for a new amp it gave me chills

I also use the Mercury power cord, think what you want but my lead tone is cleaner sounding then that thin ass cord! having a decent warm guitar helps a lot on the high gain channels,lead one I had the gain at 2 o clock or so with the amp volume at 2 o clock at 40 watts and still sounded great. Then lead 2 i have to drop the gain to 1 o clock and it was nice and clear sounding doing Judus Priest Thats just one day of playing it might change or sound different Saturday when I play, I did move a preamp tube around so will see how she works out. The crunch sounded excellent doing so Free,AC/DC stuff. The clean was bassy some as you know then I switch to the single coil tap and the guitars boost and sounded great.


----------



## Cajun Player

I got my DSL40C on Monday. First ever Marshall. I love it... stock. I'll wait till the speaker breaks in before I do anything to the amp.
First amp in a long time that made me smile with the first note.. The LP through it is just plain bad ass. The Strat actually sounds really good on the Clean channel with the button depressed. Love the amp. Will have to keep it.. Been playing almost 3 hours a night all week. Sweet..


----------



## ken361

Cajun Player said:


> I got my DSL40C on Monday. First ever Marshall. I love it... stock. I'll wait till the speaker breaks in before I do anything to the amp.
> First amp in a long time that made me smile with the first note.. The LP through it is just plain bad ass. The Strat actually sounds really good on the Clean channel with the button depressed. Love the amp. Will have to keep it.. Been playing almost 3 hours a night all week. Sweet..



Good to hear man! let me know how many hours on the speaker till it sweetens up! actually like the note definition almost like the EVH stuff


----------



## USAPatriot

Cajun Player said:


> I got my DSL40C on Monday. First ever Marshall. I love it... stock. I'll wait till the speaker breaks in before I do anything to the amp.
> First amp in a long time that made me smile with the first note.. The LP through it is just plain bad ass. The Strat actually sounds really good on the Clean channel with the button depressed. Love the amp. Will have to keep it.. Been playing almost 3 hours a night all week. Sweet..



It's a nice amp, no doubt about it. It can be something of a crap shoot to get a good one...my first had a cap leg not soldered in place (makes me wonder what exactly the QC guys do all day) but once you get a good one, totally worth it! The amp will almost do Fender cleans...and could probably do better than I got it with a few more tweaks...and won't quite do heavy metal, but I don't have a lot of need for it myself. Anyhow, glad that you like it and that you're not in a hurry to modify it.  -Rod-


----------



## USAPatriot

This might not be the right thread for this, but since I use a DSL40C, it applies anyway  Question: We all know that more gain = more compression, but is this a physical law that can't be gotten around or is it built into the gain functions? Feel free to write your reply as long as necessary for clarity. Thanks in advance. -Rod-


----------



## frankyfal

Protect your DSL40c. Heavy duty padded cover from D2F for sale or trade.2 months old. Mint condition. Paid $70 Make me an offer


----------



## atrox

Messed around with my DSL40c more. The Creamback is breaking in and i'm finding the C19 mod to be too dark now, so that cap will be going back in. That said, i rarely use the Ultra channel anyway. I use my DSL like a 2203, since that is what i'm used to. Green Crunch and a boost. 

I have Tungsol in v1 and v2 and that is working well with the Creamback. I can imagine that being too harsh with the 70/80 speaker, but the result with the Creamback is a very warm tone with nice tight highs and lows. 

I installed Ruby EL34BSTR's yesterday, which is what i use in my 2203. They are my favorite power tube for most Marshall's. Honestly, they don't make much a difference in the DSL40C over the stock tubes. I was expecting a bit more articulation in the Crunch channel, but it was already pretty articulate and touch sensitive. No perceivable difference in feel or tone at jamming levels. Anyway, i'm perfectly happy with that tone, so it's all good. Just an FYI.


----------



## Micky

USAPatriot said:


> This might not be the right thread for this, but since I use a DSL40C, it applies anyway  Question: We all know that more gain = more compression, but is this a physical law that can't be gotten around or is it built into the gain functions? Feel free to write your reply as long as necessary for clarity. Thanks in advance. -Rod-



MetroAmp.com Forum &bull; View topic - Gain Explained


----------



## markm

I read most of this thread.
Just received the DSL40C with the creamback speaker . The sweetwater exclusive.
Sounds okay but very "boomy" playing cords on the low strings.
Don't recall seeing this talked about anywhere.
Any suggestions on what I can try to fual this out?
Thank you


----------



## Jethro Rocker

What volume, what bass / resonance setting, what guitar, location? That could all play into it. Set the low end of your pickups lower, the large strings have more energy.


----------



## solarburn

markm said:


> I read most of this thread.
> Just received the DSL40C with the creamback speaker . The sweetwater exclusive.
> Sounds okay but very "boomy" playing cords on the low strings.
> Don't recall seeing this talked about anywhere.
> Any suggestions on what I can try to fual this out?
> Thank you



What are your eq settings and like Jethro asked your bass/res setting? Is it boomy using the bridge pup too and or the neck? What channel voicing is it the worst on? All or just a couple...


----------



## markm

Prs custom 24
Telecaster w/ chopper T

Been just working in the bridge pickups for now 

Worst on red 1. Gain 4. Vol 3. Treb 5. Mid 5. Bass 2. Pres 10. Res 2
This is the best settings so far 
Seems boomy down low and ice picky on leads up high


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Hmmmm presence 10 might make it a bit ice picky, you certainly don't have much low end or volume set there. It really shouldn't be boomy.


----------



## solarburn

markm said:


> Prs custom 24
> Telecaster w/ chopper T
> 
> Been just working in the bridge pickups for now
> 
> Worst on red 1. Gain 4. Vol 3. Treb 5. Mid 5. Bass 2. Pres 10. Res 2
> This is the best settings so far
> Seems boomy down low and ice picky on leads up high



L1 should not be boomy with gain that low not to mention the presence up so high with the TMB set where they are. He's using the bridge pup too. I can see the top end being ice picky trying to compensate for the low end boomy-ness.

Is the chopper T SC or HB?


----------



## solarburn

Is the amp in a corner of the room where it might be bouncing lows off the wall?


----------



## markm

The chopper is a HB also. 
The amp is up on a stand away from the walls.


----------



## solarburn

markm said:


> The chopper is a HB also.
> The amp is up on a stand away from the walls.



Well you could call Sweetwater and see if they have been getting complaints of boomy-ness with the CB 65 in it. If you find its not acceptable Sweetwater will exchange it or refund it no problem. Let them know it's mechanically not performing right as opposed to you just don't like it. Then shipping is covered.

My DSL40 with the 70/80 has not had this issue. Plus you have the bass/res so low on L1 which is a top end voicing to boot...especially when the gain is only at 4 and volume at 3...

I was thinking about getting another DSL40 with the CB65 but maybe the speaker isn't a good match or you have a mechanical going on.


----------



## markm

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Well you could call Sweetwater and see if they have been getting complaints of boomy-ness with the CB 65 in it. If you find its not acceptable Sweetwater will exchange it or refund it no problem. Let them know it's mechanically not performing right as opposed to you just don't like it. Then shipping is covered.
> 
> My DSL40 with the 70/80 has not had this issue. Plus you have the bass/res so low on L1 which is a top end voicing to boot...especially when the gain is only at 4 and volume at 3...
> 
> I was thinking about getting another DSL40 with the CB65 but maybe the speaker isn't a good match or you have a mechanical going on.




Thanks. 
I'll give it some more time tomorrow. If nothing changes I'll give Sweetwater a call. I also do know this was their last one and it was an open box / demo unit.


----------



## solarburn

markm said:


> Thanks.
> I'll give it some more time tomorrow. If nothing changes I'll give Sweetwater a call. I also do know this was their last one and it was an open box / demo unit.




Yeah after you've given it a good playing. There's time to figure it out. I didn't mean send it pack'n right now...jus it's an option if you find it doesn't straighten out for you. Plenty of time to test it.


----------



## solarburn

markm said:


> Thanks.
> I'll give it some more time tomorrow. If nothing changes I'll give Sweetwater a call. I also do know this was their last one and it was an open box / demo unit.



Also member J.Lagrassa has used this speaker in his so I'm hoping he sees our conversation and chimes in...


----------



## lordquilton

markm said:


> I read most of this thread.
> Just received the DSL40C with the creamback speaker . The sweetwater exclusive.
> Sounds okay but very "boomy" playing cords on the low strings.
> Don't recall seeing this talked about anywhere.
> Any suggestions on what I can try to fual this out?
> Thank you




It's a head scratcher for sure. I've seen people comment about Green channel being boxy/boomy on a DSL, but not Red 1.
I've been running the 65 Creamback for nearly a year now, boomy is not an adjective I would have used to describe it.
My experience is that it has more clout than the Seventy/80; meaning it rattles the windows and shakes the floor more. But the lows don't seem to multiply and
"over-involve" the cabinet; that's my definition of boomy.

If it were me I would try it in a different parts of the room and so on. The one time I did set it up near a corner there was so much low end energy crashing around, I could hear the tubes rattling
when I held a low note. There was a wooden door and door frame in the wall behind the amp, that shit was going nuts. That was boomy.
Being pretty much open back, I reckon you need the back of the amp to be at least 6 feet away from any structure that's not solid brick.


----------



## markm

I have it in the basement but have it set out from the wall. Have a lot of tapestrys hanging on the walls away from the cement walls.

I am playing it right now on red 1, but at whisper volume (everyone is sleeping) and I am getting the EXACT tones I want. I have to see how this translates to band volumes.


----------



## markm

A quick pict:


----------



## lordquilton

Nice guitar man! The gold looks good on that carved top.


----------



## solarburn

markm said:


> A quick pict:



Nice!

Hey is your mid shift button in or out on your amp?


----------



## markm

lordquilton said:


> Nice guitar man! The gold looks good on that carved top.



Thanks. Really enjoying it. It's been a long time coming and finally have my dream guitar!


----------



## markm

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Nice!
> 
> Hey is your mid shift button in or out on your amp?



Thanks!

Shift button is Out.


----------



## solarburn

markm said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Shift button is Out.



Ok. Well there goes that idea.


----------



## solarburn

Guitar looks great. I've got a gold top Tele and its a burner. Dimarzio SD's that coil split. Meaty like a Tele has no business being hehe.


----------



## markm

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Guitar looks great. I've got a gold top Tele and its a burner. Dimarzio SD's that coil split. Meaty like a Tele has no business being hehe.



Cool! Funny my other guitar is a white Tele with a Chopper T humbucker/split. A real rocker!


----------



## lordquilton

The only other thing I've got is-
I remember setting the Presence and Resonance quite differently for the first couple of days after putting the speaker in. If I recall correctly I put them both to zero. 

It was like you could hear where the speaker was headed, but it did just sound a bit weird at first. If it's not the room, a couple of hours at band volume should let you know where you stand.


----------



## Dizzyg12

markm said:


> I read most of this thread.
> Just received the DSL40C with the creamback speaker . The sweetwater exclusive.
> Sounds okay but very "boomy" playing cords on the low strings.
> Don't recall seeing this talked about anywhere.
> Any suggestions on what I can try to fual this out?
> Thank you



Does it sound this way on other guitars? How bout switching the pickups?

I noticed that on my neck pickup of my LP it was a little muddy, possibly boomy as you say, but maybe I'm describing it differently. Lowered the pup a tad and it cleaned it up. Just something to try.


----------



## ken361

At my girlfriends condo I had it set 2 feet from the wall and theres another wall a few feet to the right the amp can get pretty thick because of it probably. Im still rolling tubes and have to try it at my house yet were the basement is all open.


----------



## ken361

amp on the stand too close to the ceiling?


----------



## markm

Thanks for all the tips and advice. I really appreciate it.
Definitely not too closed to the ceiling.
This is where I've always had my amps through the years.

I just finished another jam session with it . Copied the settings from the sweetwater video and it seems better than last night .
Still to boomy for my taste on green 2 and red 1. Also a bit to ice picky when soloing on red 1.
I'll try a few more of these suggestions when I get back to jamming .

I've been most recently playing a Mesa Rectoverb 25. I love it and it sounds great, but I miss the Marshall roar (had a JVM a while back) and wanted a higher wattage bigger combo for playing with the band.


----------



## cavedog69

Here is what happened to me . I went to buy jc800 cab. the guy at the at the store would not open the back of the cab so I could see what speakers where loaded. Instead he took the hadled off one side and got a side looking mirror. Then told me that some guys would different speakers in the cab. This was $400. So I am asking What speakers would you recomend getting? I have a mg412 cab. I power it with a dsl 40. I diconnent the dsl 40 speaker.


----------



## markm

I have narrowed down the boomieness of this amp to the gain.
It's definitely the gain.
If I turn it down the boom goes away, but it's not enough gain for my style of play.
I have to keep the gain levels below 4 on both channels.
Could it be a tube ??
Bias adjustment?

Thanks


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Possibly bias, I wonder if V1 has an issue? I keep gain dimed on crunch or about 5 with a boost, lead 1 gain around 7 -8 or lead 2 gain 4. Not boomy.


----------



## Sournote

Ok so my effects loop has taken a dump.

I was was playing around with my Looper and suddenly the sound got scratchy and the volume dropped in and out a few times then finally quit. 

With the effects loop switch off, the amp works fine and all the pedals work fine when rearranged to all be in front of the amp. I suppose it could be a few things including a bad cable in the loop, but I instantly went from mellow to PO'd and will need to check them later to rule that out but thought I'd ask what else might be the culprit. 

Is there a tube that has something to do with the loop that might be bad? Anything else to check?


----------



## Micky

Put a short jumper in the loop to see if it works.


----------



## Sournote

Micky said:


> Put a short jumper in the loop to see if it works.



Ok thanks, i likely wouldn't have thought of that.

With a short jumper the sound should be the same loop selected or deselected, so that would rule out anything external to the amp in one shot.


----------



## ken361

Def recommend good preamp tubes!


----------



## Sournote

Sournote said:


> Ok thanks, i likely wouldn't have thought of that.
> 
> With a short jumper the sound should be the same loop selected or deselected, so that would rule out anything external to the amp in one shot.



Well now, I used a known good jumper and amp sounds fine with the loop switch in or out.

Plugged everything back in using the same cables from last night and now can't replicate the problem. 

I suppose this is an indication that the problem was in the cable or pedalboard, but because it could just as easily be an intermittent problem in the amp, its another check in the hate box of my love hate relationship with this amp.


----------



## Micky

Sournote said:


> but because it could just as easily be an intermittent problem in the amp, its another check in the hate box of my love hate relationship with this amp.



Why would you assume it is an intermittent problem with the amp? Right after you eliminated the amp from list of possibilities? Your logic makes no sense.

If you don't like the amp, trade it for something you DO like...


----------



## JiMB

Just finished this one with TC Nova Delay and MXR 10 band EQ in the loop:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odE3vGzprgw&feature=youtu.be


----------



## MarshallDog

So, my foot switch died last night! It would switch the reverb but not the channels. Tried everything and dead. When I got home from rehearsal, I tried my spare and it worked fine. I tested the foot switch and found that there must be a break in the black common wire or the long sleeve on the shaft.

Anyway, I could have ordered a new one but said F that and ordered the Black Magic foot switch with the LEDs off eBay along with a 20ft TRS Mogami cable...just thought this is a better solution with the cable being separate so I can replace it down the road if needed.

Anyone using this foot switch? Having the LEDs is going to be great so I know what is on and off for a change. Yes, it needs a 9 volt battery but LEDs are efficient and it should last a long time...

Any thoughts feedback???


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Sounds real good to me, good idea! I will try and do my comparison for you tomorrow!


----------



## Sournote

Micky said:


> Why would you assume it is an intermittent problem with the amp? Right after you eliminated the amp from list of possibilities? Your logic makes no sense.
> 
> If you don't like the amp, trade it for something you DO like...



Nothing has really been eliminated as the cause. The pedalboard worked fine in front of the amp minutes after this happened and then everything worked when it was all put back they way it was so the cause is unknown. 

That raises the specter of reliability issues to rattle around my over active mind.

Regarding getting something else, I have some ideas for features I'd want in and amp to replace the DSL40C but haven't found the "one" yet.


----------



## Micky

I would suspect a cable or pedal LONG before I would suspect a problem with the loop on a relatively new amp.

After seeing how these are built I believe this to be true...


----------



## Dizzyg12

Sournote said:


> Nothing has really been eliminated as the cause. The pedalboard worked fine in front of the amp minutes after this happened and then everything worked when it was all put back they way it was so the cause is unknown.
> 
> That raises the specter of reliability issues to rattle around my over active mind.
> 
> Regarding getting something else, I have some ideas for features I'd want in and amp to replace the DSL40C but haven't found the "one" yet.






I have very limited electrical knowledge but is it possible that the tinkering you were doing before this happened somehow overloaded a circuit or some component that has to do with the loop and that letting it sit overnight just let the circuit return to normal? Maybe you lucked out and whatever you were doing could have potentially fried the amp but it did a little pop fizz and self preservation prevailed? 

Sometimes my car makes a weird noise and then its fine and I nevrmhave that issue again. That doesn't mean my car is a POS.


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

Sournote said:


> Ok so my effects loop has taken a dump.
> 
> I was was playing around with my Looper and suddenly the sound got scratchy and the volume dropped in and out a few times then finally quit.
> 
> With the effects loop switch off, the amp works fine and all the pedals work fine when rearranged to all be in front of the amp. I suppose it could be a few things including a bad cable in the loop, but I instantly went from mellow to PO'd and will need to check them later to rule that out but thought I'd ask what else might be the culprit.
> 
> Is there a tube that has something to do with the loop that might be bad? Anything else to check?



I was having problems with my loop a couple of weeks ago at a jam. I lost sound a couple of times during a song, which has never happened before. I tried messing with my cables which did nothing. Finally I switched the loop off and the sound came back. After we took a break I tried it again and it was working. Later it happened again so I left the loop off for the rest of the night. When I got home I set everything back up and it worked perfectly. I could not make it happen again no matter what I did. Then it happened again a couple of nights ago and I figured out what was wrong.One of my spare dc power jumpers was touching the metal casing of one of the pedals. It would pop, which I probably couldn't hear with the rest of the band, and killed my loop's power. Once I moved the jumper away from the pedal it fixed the issue. Just something to think about. I hope you figure out what's going on with yours.


----------



## Bobby D

Hello fellow rockers. I am new to this so I hope my post goes where it it suppose to. I have had my dsl40c for about 8 months, and i love it . after 20 years of trying to get everything to sound like a Marshall, I sold everything (almost everything) and bought a Marshall. well worth the price, I don't know what took me so long. 
It is nice to see everyone searching for that perfect tone. I loved the sound of this bad boy out of the box, it was a little bright, but i wanted to get everything a break in before doing anything radical, or spending more money. 
after about 20 hrs, i found the 70/80 was not what i wanted, being difficult, and wanting my own sound , I went with and Eminence Legend 128gb.. after the usual 20 hr break in, I am happy. no more mods needed. 
I am curious about one thing thought, I read a lot about the factory Bias being off.. Is this very common? I do not posses the tools or know how to bias and will likely pay a tech to do this.. Is it worth the money to get it checked?


----------



## Micky

If you are liking the way it sounds, and there is no other problem, then no, no need to address it. When you swap power tubes, have it biased then.

OH! - Many new members put a post in the Member Introductions area where they can tell all of us a little about themselves.


----------



## ken361

Bobby D said:


> Hello fellow rockers. I am new to this so I hope my post goes where it it suppose to. I have had my dsl40c for about 8 months, and i love it . after 20 years of trying to get everything to sound like a Marshall, I sold everything (almost everything) and bought a Marshall. well worth the price, I don't know what took me so long.
> It is nice to see everyone searching for that perfect tone. I loved the sound of this bad boy out of the box, it was a little bright, but i wanted to get everything a break in before doing anything radical, or spending more money.
> after about 20 hrs, i found the 70/80 was not what i wanted, being difficult, and wanting my own sound , I went with and Eminence Legend 128gb.. after the usual 20 hr break in, I am happy. no more mods needed.
> I am curious about one thing thought, I read a lot about the factory Bias being off.. Is this very common? I do not posses the tools or know how to bias and will likely pay a tech to do this.. Is it worth the money to get it checked?


The 128 is a nice speaker based off the greenback, I put one in the blues deluxe and made a nice difference! i'm going give mine more time its still new by changing the preamp tubes made some good difference. The amp does rip! Sylvania long plate is a good fit for the PI


----------



## Sournote

Dizzyg12 said:


> I have very limited electrical knowledge but is it possible that the tinkering you were doing before this happened somehow overloaded a circuit or some component that has to do with the loop and that letting it sit overnight just let the circuit return to normal? Maybe you lucked out and whatever you were doing could have potentially fried the amp but it did a little pop fizz and self preservation prevailed?
> 
> Sometimes my car makes a weird noise and then its fine and I nevrmhave that issue again. That doesn't mean my car is a POS.


Just to clarify, I wasn't tinkering unless you consider stepping on the looper pedal tinkering.

Certainly I did nothing that might be expected to fry the amp.


----------



## Micky

Sournote said:


> Just to clarify, I wasn't tinkering unless you consider stepping on the looper pedal tinkering.
> 
> Certainly I did nothing that might be expected to fry the amp.



I think he may have been referring to affecting the loop operation.

There is a remote possibility that external power sources can affect things, especially the lo-voltage section of the amp that controls the relays and other various switching modes. Almost the same way the foot pedal can control things...

I will be curious to see if it happens again. I for one don't use a lot of pedals, but I have had an EQ and reverb in the loop before but experienced no difficulties, even when powered by external adapters.


----------



## dave999z

MarshallDog said:


> So, my foot switch died last night! It would switch the reverb but not the channels. Tried everything and dead. When I got home from rehearsal, I tried my spare and it worked fine. I tested the foot switch and found that there must be a break in the black common wire or the long sleeve on the shaft.
> 
> Anyway, I could have ordered a new one but said F that and ordered the Black Magic foot switch with the LEDs off eBay along with a 20ft TRS Mogami cable...just thought this is a better solution with the cable being separate so I can replace it down the road if needed.
> 
> Anyone using this foot switch? Having the LEDs is going to be great so I know what is on and off for a change. Yes, it needs a 9 volt battery but LEDs are efficient and it should last a long time...
> 
> Any thoughts feedback???



Does the channel LED on that Blackmagic footswitch change from green to red (depending on the channel), or just on/off red? Looks like a cool switch.

Not sure I'd shell out for a Mogami cable just to use to connect a footswitch, since it's not part of the audio signal path.


----------



## cavedog69

Celestion G12M Greenback. Here is the speakers I an going to buy. I have a four x 12Mg412 cab. I went through all the the phases progressive ,punk, new wave and all the rest. Stlill a hard core hetal head, But I love blues. Now that I live in redneckvilles.wife I will have to argue the merits over over Peavy vurses, Marshall. I just play there crap and get paid. I really try to find as blues band . Anyway what doyou think of my DSL 40 powering the cab with just those 2 backs until i get the money for 2 more?


----------



## Rahlstin

Received the Classic Tone choke today. So its surgery time. I'll let u know how the patient makes out.


----------



## Rahlstin

dave999z said:


> Does the channel LED on that Blackmagic footswitch change from green to red (depending on the channel), or just on/off red? Looks like a cool switch.
> 
> Not sure I'd shell out for a Mogami cable just to use to connect a footswitch, since it's not part of the audio signal path.



I modded the marshall sw and made my own.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

cavedog69 said:


> Celestion G12M Greenback. Here is the speakers I an going to buy. I have a four x 12Mg412 cab.....Anyway what doyou think of my DSL 40 powering the cab with just those 2 backs until i get the money for 2 more?



Not sure what you mean by "those 2 backs" if the cab is loaded?. I'm betting it's empty and you have 2 of them in the cab. If it is a 16 ohm speaker, you can only run 2 of those through the 8 ohm jack in the back. If you have a 4x12 loaded cab, it must be a total impedance of 16 ohms to use with the internal. Right now the only way you can run with the internal is if the Greenies are 8 ohms and are wired in series in cab, then run with internal.It certainly has the kick to fill that out nice!!


----------



## MarshallDog

dave999z said:


> Does the channel LED on that Blackmagic footswitch change from green to red (depending on the channel), or just on/off red? Looks like a cool switch.
> 
> Not sure I'd shell out for a Mogami cable just to use to connect a footswitch, since it's not part of the audio signal path.



As soon as I get the footswitch I'll let you know about the LEDs color change. I agree about the cable but I thought I would get a better quality cable seeing as the original cheap POS Marshall cable only lasted just over a year.


----------



## Dmann

So I just picked up one of these amps this last weekend after spending a bit demoing the available options. I chose it because side by side with everything else it just had more balls and more punch.

I've read through 60 or so pages of this thread, but I've had enough for now hehe. I am at a loss as to why so many people will void their warranty and mod the amp before even attempting to use an EQ in the loop (which is 100% transparent and noiseless btw).... but each to their own right?

I am running the DSL40C in conjunction with my Axe FX II in a 4 cable setup. I swapped out the stock seventy-eighty after putting through a 12 hour break-in with a looper and it still was a loose canon with farting lows and raspy mid highs when you have the masters @ 5 or higher.... Yes I could EQ it, but that's a lot of stuff to cut and when you cut too much the tone loses it's character, when instead a speaker already voiced to the basic tone I want is a better solution, so I swapped it with a G12T-75 out of my 1960b (this cab easily has over 500 hours on it at concert volume as I bought it from KLM Backline when they upgraded), and it's cream heaven right out of the door..... add to that all the tone shaping abilities of the Axe FX II, and it's pure bliss.

I'm running as a 2 channel amp, clean and heavy doing stuff from classic and hard rock to classic metal and thrash, none of this 7 or 8 string new stuff. I've found the sweet spots for this particular DSL with my "classic gain" using the clean channel, with the gain on 3 and master on 10 and my "ultra gain" is on the lead 1 channel with gain on 7 and master on 5-6 (this allows me to dynamically use my guitars volume and treble knobs to adjust the gain without thinning out the tone). I tried using teh lead 2, but it's too compressed and too saturated for my liking and tends to kill the character of single notes when soloing). I have the voicing switch out, and I run all the tone controls @ 5, and both reverbs @ 0.

I am using the Axe FX II in the 4 Cable Method and it's handling all the EQ, Effects, Drives, etc.... everything. 

So after years and years of big 100 watters, I was surprised as Marshall really hit the nail on the head with this amp IMO. I tried the Axe FX II in 4CM with my JVM and my JMP 2203 and it sounded like ass in both.... but for 40 watts and it's low price this DSL40C and a speaker change is really loving it.

The only negative was the channel switching. The Axe FX II doesn't do relays, but I have my old TC Electronic G-Major collecting dust so at the cost of an additional rack space, I run midi to it and just use it to switch amp channels, it's otherwise not even connected at all hehe.

Anyways Great amp.... I actually have a pair of Ruby 7025SS/12AX7AC7 HG+ I got from Doug's tubes a couple years back in my old ADA MP-2 that I rarely use, they are brilliant and percussive but might be a good match to the G12T-75.


----------



## atrox

Concerning "boomy" with Creamback speaker. Let the speaker break in some for one. I found the amp to be quite resonant as well at first, but the speaker mellowed out some and it seems fine.


----------



## Micky

atrox said:


> Concerning "boomy" with Creamback speaker. Let the speaker break in some for one. I found the amp to be quite resonant as well at first, but the speaker mellowed out some and it seems fine.



Another trick for a boomy speaker is to take off the back while it is breaking in...


----------



## dave999z

Dmann said:


> So I just picked up one of these amps this last weekend after spending a bit demoing the available options. I chose it because side by side with everything else it just had more balls and more punch.
> 
> I've read through 60 or so pages of this thread, but I've had enough for now hehe. I am at a loss as to why so many people will void their warranty and mod the amp before even attempting to use an EQ in the loop (which is 100% transparent and noiseless btw).... but each to their own right?
> 
> I am running the DSL40C in conjunction with my Axe FX II in a 4 cable setup. I swapped out the stock seventy-eighty after putting through a 12 hour break-in with a looper and it still was a loose canon with farting lows and raspy mid highs when you have the masters @ 5 or higher.... Yes I could EQ it, but that's a lot of stuff to cut and when you cut too much the tone loses it's character, when instead a speaker already voiced to the basic tone I want is a better solution, so I swapped it with a G12T-75 out of my 1960b (this cab easily has over 500 hours on it at concert volume as I bought it from KLM Backline when they upgraded), and it's cream heaven right out of the door..... add to that all the tone shaping abilities of the Axe FX II, and it's pure bliss.
> 
> I'm running as a 2 channel amp, clean and heavy doing stuff from classic and hard rock to classic metal and thrash, none of this 7 or 8 string new stuff. I've found the sweet spots for this particular DSL with my "classic gain" using the clean channel, with the gain on 3 and master on 10 and my "ultra gain" is on the lead 1 channel with gain on 7 and master on 5-6 (this allows me to dynamically use my guitars volume and treble knobs to adjust the gain without thinning out the tone). I tried using teh lead 2, but it's too compressed and too saturated for my liking and tends to kill the character of single notes when soloing). I have the voicing switch out, and I run all the tone controls @ 5, and both reverbs @ 0.
> 
> I am using the Axe FX II in the 4 Cable Method and it's handling all the EQ, Effects, Drives, etc.... everything.
> 
> So after years and years of big 100 watters, I was surprised as Marshall really hit the nail on the head with this amp IMO. I tried the Axe FX II in 4CM with my JVM and my JMP 2203 and it sounded like ass in both.... but for 40 watts and it's low price this DSL40C and a speaker change is really loving it.
> 
> The only negative was the channel switching. The Axe FX II doesn't do relays, but I have my old TC Electronic G-Major collecting dust so at the cost of an additional rack space, I run midi to it and just use it to switch amp channels, it's otherwise not even connected at all hehe.
> 
> Anyways Great amp.... I actually have a pair of Ruby 7025SS/12AX7AC7 HG+ I got from Doug's tubes a couple years back in my old ADA MP-2 that I rarely use, they are brilliant and percussive but might be a good match to the G12T-75.



Funny, I tried pulling a G12-T75 from my 412 and putting it in my DSL40c but hated it. Sounded lifeless to me. Speakers are a very individual thing (obviously).

I love the ADA MP-2! One of the best pieces of kit ever made. I need to come to terms with the fact I never use my rack setup and 412 and just get rid of them, but that MP-2 is just so awesome. And ditto, love using a G Major 2 to switch amp channels on my EL34 50/50 along with my ADA midi patches.


----------



## cavedog69

*Sneaky c19*

I have a DSL forty. The amp has a 5 yr. warranty. I need a sneaky way to get to that circuit board to get to the c19 capacitor. Those warranty's pay off w/el-tronics. I gotten a new Les Paul, from gc. 50 inch 3d tv. Thanks


----------



## MarshallDog

*Re: Sneaky c19*



cavedog69 said:


> I have a DSL forty. The amp has a 5 yr. warranty. I need a sneaky way to get to that circuit board to get to the c19 capacitor. Those warranty's pay off w/el-tronics. I gotten a new Les Paul, from gc. 50 inch 3d tv. Thanks



Just remove the chassis very carefully and you will see C19 right there. It is on top the PCB, you can see it. Just go in there and carefully clip the leads OR clip the cap in half and it should shatter and clean it up and the existing leads. Leave the leads in place that way if you want to re-install it you can just solder a new one to the existing leads w/o removing the board or messing with the traces...


----------



## Dizzyg12

Sournote said:


> Just to clarify, I wasn't tinkering unless you consider stepping on the looper pedal tinkering.
> 
> Certainly I did nothing that might be expected to fry the amp.





Sorry I thought by "playing around" you meant tinkering with set up or settings of some sort.


----------



## Rahlstin

on my c19 I carefuly clipped one lead on one side in the center, then just turned it a bit one way, you cant even tell its disconnected. looks like every other crooked part.


----------



## frankyfal

*Re: Sneaky c19*



cavedog69 said:


> I have a DSL forty. The amp has a 5 yr. warranty. I need a sneaky way to get to that circuit board to get to the c19 capacitor. Those warranty's pay off w/el-tronics. I gotten a new Les Paul, from gc. 50 inch 3d tv. Thanks



My personal experience:
C19 only tames the treble from the red channel and voids the warranty. *Before you clip anything set up your rig as if you only had the green channel and see if you can get all your tones by cleaning up with the guitar volume and boosting with a pedal for solo's. * In my experience the red channel is too fizzy with or without the clip and if you need a warranted repair the techs are not blind or stupid they will see the C19 solder has been tampered with and you will be screwed. Plus my cheap Vietnamese lock nuts fell off once you open the chassis so they will know by that too that it was tampered with. 

IMO JVM215c is worth the extra $800 especially if you plan on keeping this amp for at least 5 yrs.


----------



## ken361

I set up my 40 EQ' to the red lead 1 and it sounds great loud,crunch channel still sounds great also. For fender cleans then I have to add for treble in. My lead tones are clear and not fizzy ya gotta use good tubes and cables and mines still new! Lot of people dont like the JVM I had one my self and didnt like it loud and had to tame it with Slyvanias in the v1 v2.


----------



## Micky

As I have stated previously, there are many differing opinions on C19, and it's effectiveness as originally implemented in this amp. Far too many times I see others haphazardly offering opinions and instructions without completely thinking this through.

I fell victim to the hype...

Speaker selection makes a huge difference on whether the Ultra II mode is fizzy or not, the Creamback seems to be a popular choice for many and may eliminate the need to mod this amp...

For example, if you play thru the combo speaker PLUS a 2X12 or 4X12, you may find that there is no need to do anything, the fizz is gone from that particular mode. The Creamback (or other equivalent speakers) have a wider range than the stock Seventy/80 speaker, and to some may eliminate the need clip C19. For others it may amplify the fizz.

My point is, the tone and especially the perception of the tone from this amp is a very subjective matter, and my new saying is 'tone is in the ear of the listener'... What may sound fizzy to some may not sound bad to others. Just because one person is doing a mod may not mean everyone should do it. What works for one may not work for another.

Just be careful, and don't do something you may regret later.


----------



## ken361

And go easy on the gain! lead 2 less gain and bass


----------



## markm

So I have been able to get the boomieness out of red 1.
I'm liking the tone for rythym with the volume knob of my guitars dialed back. Crank it up for solos.
Still disappointed with green 2. I really wanted a mild gain in this area. Right now to get anywhere near what I want, I need to use green 1 and a TS for some mild gain. It's nice having 3 footswitchable tones, but I don't use clean much.
But ....,,I really like amp distortion much better.

So my issue now:
With the gain up around 8 on green 2 there really isn't enough gain and this is where is gets very boomy. 
Anything else I can try?
I have some pre amp tubes. Which ones would you swap out to try and fix this ?

Thanks!


----------



## ken361

Try v1 v2 for start I keep mine at 7 most of the time thats max I go. Try diff PI tube also and check the guitar pickup heights at loud volume and adjust for smoothness.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

markm said:


> So I have been able to get the boomieness out of red 1.
> I'm liking the tone for rythym with the volume knob of my guitars dialed back. Crank it up for solos.
> Still disappointed with green 2. I really wanted a mild gain in this area. Right now to get anywhere near what I want, I need to use green 1 and a TS for some mild gain. It's nice having 3 footswitchable tones, but I don't use clean much.
> But ....,,I really like amp distortion much better.
> 
> So my issue now:
> With the gain up around 8 on green 2 there really isn't enough gain and this is where is gets very boomy.
> Anything else I can try?
> I have some pre amp tubes. Which ones would you swap out to try and fix this ?
> 
> Thanks!


Man, put the TS in front and use it that way. That's how I use mine, more distortion, nice tight lows. Green 2, lower gain, OD with level only no gain, on front end. Mmmm good!


----------



## Skylarkpilot

Guys I've got a question,
Today whilst practicing (about an hour and a half), I switched from Green to Red and started banging out some Judas Priest, had Red gain up around 5 and volume about the same. Noticed some boomy horrible noises and squeeling so shut everything down and started rolling tubes thinking I must have killed one.
Long story short, after changing all the tubes one by one and seeing no difference I noticed two things. One, I'd left my boost pedal on when switching green to Red  perhaps not surprisingly when I turned it off everything returned to normal.
The second thing I noticed was that I'd been playing my 8Ohm cab off the 4Ohm tap. Clearly I wasn't paying enough attention yesterday when I was cleaning the sockets and left the lead in the wrong socket.
Everything seems ok now but what sort of damage would running 4Ohms into an 8Ohm cab do ?

And before anyone says I don't have a 4Ohm tap on the DSL40C I do 'cos when I fitted the bigger iron I had the option of 16, 8 and 4 so I fitted all of them with an extra socket for the 4.
Thanks.......


----------



## Micky

Well, if it survived this long, you should be all set.
So when you turned off the pedal and connected to the correct output, did things change as far as tone was concerned?

Don't you just love ClassicTone transformers...


----------



## solarburn

Micky...I'm watching episode 2 of season 6 for the 3rd time hehee.

Choo Choo.

It's looking good so far. Love me some Justified.


----------



## Micky

Put it in the 2 Favorite shows thread!
Search for Justified I think...


----------



## MarshallDog

Skylarkpilot said:


> Guys I've got a question,
> Today whilst practicing (about an hour and a half), I switched from Green to Red and started banging out some Judas Priest, had Red gain up around 5 and volume about the same. Noticed some boomy horrible noises and squeeling so shut everything down and started rolling tubes thinking I must have killed one.
> Long story short, after changing all the tubes one by one and seeing no difference I noticed two things. One, I'd left my boost pedal on when switching green to Red  perhaps not surprisingly when I turned it off everything returned to normal.
> The second thing I noticed was that I'd been playing my 8Ohm cab off the 4Ohm tap. Clearly I wasn't paying enough attention yesterday when I was cleaning the sockets and left the lead in the wrong socket.
> Everything seems ok now but what sort of damage would running 4Ohms into an 8Ohm cab do ?
> 
> And before anyone says I don't have a 4Ohm tap on the DSL40C I do 'cos when I fitted the bigger iron I had the option of 16, 8 and 4 so I fitted all of them with an extra socket for the 4.
> Thanks.......



I don't think you may have done any damage to the OT because you where going 4 ohm amp to 8 ohm cab which I was always told is OK now if it had been 8 ohm amp to 4 ohm cab, now that is a different issue and not good.

Another Question - How do you like that Classic Tone OT? I have been thinking about changing mine out. What type of tonal affect did it have if any?


----------



## Bip-Bop-Boop

I created an account just to share my experience with this amp so far. I've owned many Marshall's over the last 25 years so this is not my first rodeo. I've had this amp for about 3 weeks and decided to do the C19 mod. before I get to that, I would like to express my disdain for the people who assembled this amp. 

the first issue was the very first chassis mount screw I tried to remove. Whoever the goofball was who assembled this must have not had it lined up properly with the chassis and forced it in with his/her power tool. I couldn't effen remove it. It was locked..It wouldn't even turn. after 30 minutes and some ingenuity I finally got the first one out. Thankfully the other 3 came out without any issue. The next problem was to get the chassis out I had to have my girlfriend physically expand the "fake wood" on the left and right side of the cabinet because the tranformers would not make it past the lips of where the back panel mounts. So, it had to be expanded outward to make the clearance to get it out..The only way they could get the chassis in is to just ram it in or they must of built the cabinet AROUND the chassis. unlikely..good grief!! Maybe their masters did not feed them that day at the Vietnamese plant. I only paid 450 for this amp used, so I must keep that in perspective. This is the first Vietmensse assembled amp I've owned and the worst Marsahll I've encountered in that regard.. A few weeks ago I removed the chassis from my JVM410JS and it went in and out like butter, I didn't have to rape it to make it do what it should do. This was outrageous. 

Ok, enough ranting. The Ultra Gain was simply unusable in my experience. Perhaps if you have the volume up to 10 and playing with a drummer and bass player you would not get killed by the flying ice picks coming for the center of your forehead. It was shrill, harsh, and simply awful. I've read comments from people that state that you should get an Eq, use your tone knobs practice voodoo to tame it. I reject that. If you can not get a somewhat usable tone with the controls at noon, you have a dog. You should not have to fight that hard for a even a medicorce tone..With the controls at noon on ultra gain it would make my teeth hurt. I'm not asking for the holy grail of tone at noon on the controls, just something that is not painful. I had to use it with the treble near 0 and presence on 0 with a les Paul. I even ran the amp through my 1960AX..no dice. I was almost killed by the ice picks.

The C19 Mod is a winner and transformed the Ultra Gain. It was not a subtle difference but a dramatic difference in my experience. I now can have the controls around noon (as a proper!! starting point) and have a usable tone. From there I can add or decrease depending on guitar and what I want it to do... It still has the Marshall bite and snarl. 

Aside from the horrific workmanship this is now a useable amp with many good tones. I just expect a Marshall to be assembled better.


----------



## USAPatriot

Bip-Bop-Boop said:


> I created an account just to share my experience with this amp so far. I've owned many Marshall's over the last 25 years so this is not my first rodeo. I've had this amp for about 3 weeks and decided to do the C19 mod. before I get to that, I would like to express my disdain for the people who assembled this amp.
> 
> the first issue was the very first chassis mount screw I tried to remove. Whoever the goofball was who assembled this must have not had it lined up properly with the chassis and forced it in with his/her power tool. I couldn't effen remove it. It was locked..It wouldn't even turn. after 30 minutes and some ingenuity I finally got the first one out. Thankfully the other 3 came out without any issue. The next problem was to get the chassis out I had to have my girlfriend physically expand the "fake wood" on the left and right side of the cabinet because the tranformers would not make it past the lips of where the back panel mounts. So, it had to be expanded outward to make the clearance to get it out..The only way they could get the chassis in is to just ram it in or they must of built the cabinet AROUND the chassis. unlikely..good grief!! Maybe their masters did not feed them that day at the Vietnamese plant. I only paid 450 for this amp used, so I must keep that in perspective. This is the first Vietmensse assembled amp I've owned and the worst Marsahll I've encountered in that regard.. A few weeks ago I removed the chassis from my JVM410JS and it went in and out like butter, I didn't have to rape it to make it do what it should do. This was outrageous.
> 
> Ok, enough ranting. The Ultra Gain was simply unusable in my experience. Perhaps if you have the volume up to 10 and playing with a drummer and bass player you would not get killed by the flying ice picks coming for the center of your forehead. It was shrill, harsh, and simply awful. I've read comments from people that state that you should get an Eq, use your tone knobs practice voodoo to tame it. I reject that. If you can not get a somewhat usable tone with the controls at noon, you have a dog. You should not have to fight that hard for a even a medicorce tone..With the controls at noon on ultra gain it would make my teeth hurt. I'm not asking for the holy grail of tone at noon on the controls, just something that is not painful. I had to use it with the treble near 0 and presence on 0 with a les Paul. I even ran the amp through my 1960AX..no dice. I was almost killed by the ice picks.
> 
> The C19 Mod is a winner and transformed the Ultra Gain. It was not a subtle difference but a dramatic difference in my experience. I now can have the controls around noon (as a proper!! starting point) and have a usable tone. From there I can add or decrease depending on guitar and what I want it to do... It still has the Marshall bite and snarl.
> 
> Aside from the horrific workmanship this is now a useable amp with many good tones. I just expect a Marshall to be assembled better.



I agree with a lot of what you say. Most likely the chassis didn't line up right when the "tech" assembled it so he just rammed that first screw in by force, which pulls the others into line. Not the best way to do things.

C-19 IS a game changer for sure. When they stuck it in there they completely changed the voicing of Red2. Clipping it allows for a logical progression of the signal gain through all 4 modes in both channels. Red 2 picks up where Red1 leaves off. Some have put in a different value cap in that slot and they seem to like it. The consensus seems to be that the higher you go with your volume, the less impact C-19 has on your tone. Since mine's clipped already, I can't test that out but am willing to believe those that have reversed the clip.

As for the tight fit of the chassis, I find that a little bit of a shake pops the transformers through that gap fairly easily. I just hook my fingers into the two empty socket holes, lift and shake it a bit, usually at a bit of an angle. It goes back in quite easily though it obviously binds against the "wood". I suppose a little light sanding on the left side would help. Maybe I'll make me a sanding block and do that  -Rod-


----------



## Micky

Bought it used, maybe the previous owner did the chassis thing...


----------



## frankyfal

Micky said:


> Bought it used, maybe the previous owner did the chassis thing...



My chassis did the same thing new. The nut broke off from the chassis upon removal putting it immediately out of warranty because you can't close it up without the nut welded to the chassis. Same happened to Lagrassa. You get what you pay for. Because of that and the c19 clip when my amp acted up ( weird after tone ) I could not have it serviced under warranty. Live and learn. I sold it for a loss and the new buyer was ok w the after tone at $500 for a 3 month old amp w a creamback 65.


----------



## ken361

I made up a couple clips im just a amature only a few years in 5 loud hours on the speaker and 20 or low playing. Its starting to smooth out decently. It records pretty good better then the pedals I had but I had to turn the treble up some and back the bass off some because the vocal mic used. Recorded at low volume, the EVH sounded better on another take when I added more treble but I kinda messed up but you get the picture. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhC2s-rEG-I Foxy lady riff

crunch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKwB5jPGY4Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_T-HGp8_as EVH type


----------



## markm

Ken. Sounded great!
Just the tones I am looking for.
Mind sharing your setting for those clips ?


----------



## ken361

markm said:


> Ken. Sounded great!
> Just the tones I am looking for.
> Mind sharing your setting for those clips ?



Thanks its getting there, I did change all the preamp tubes if you want to know ill write back. Lead gain was 2 o clock for recording and had to turn the treble to 2 o clock but not recording been at 10 to 12 and the bass at 2 o clock mids at 12 o clock. Resonance at 6 presence at 10 o clock.


----------



## ken361

Crunch channel gain at 2 o clock and used the same settings on the EQ


----------



## markm

ken361 said:


> Crunch channel gain at 2 o clock and used the same settings on the EQ



Thanks.
I'm still struggling with mine. Have to try some new pre amp tubes.
On crunch (green 2 ) I'm not getting that kind of gain at all.


----------



## ken361

markm said:


> Thanks.
> I'm still struggling with mine. Have to try some new pre amp tubes.
> On crunch (green 2 ) I'm not getting that kind of gain at all.



Getting lower gain huh hmm, I have a tungsol in the v1 JJ803 v2 Gold Lion v3 v4 Slyvania long plate.


----------



## ken361

markm said:


> Ken. Sounded great!
> Just the tones I am looking for.
> Mind sharing your setting for those clips ?



how was your EQ set? guitar used?


----------



## Skylarkpilot

Micky said:


> Well, if it survived this long, you should be all set.
> So when you turned off the pedal and connected to the correct output, did things change as far as tone was concerned?
> 
> Don't you just love ClassicTone transformers...



Hi Micky,
Thanks for the reassurance. 
The weird thing is that when I started playing I didn't notice any real difference to normal. I started out on Green 'crunch' as I was practicing some new stuff and wanted to hear it clean before I dirtied it up on the Red channel. Then I kicked in the overdrive pedal for a while just to see differences in my tone, then hit the red switch. At first I didn't even hear much difference on Red. Up to this point I'd had the volume down around four. It was when I turned the volume up a bit that I started to notice it didn't sound right. It didn't occur to me immediately that anything was wrong. I think maybe because I've played a Les Paul for the past four years and about two weeks ago started playing a Strat. I'm still getting used to the tone difference.
Anyhow, all's well that ends well. 

As for the Classic Tone Output transformer, all I can say is that it was a relatively straightforward mod. It's difficult to describe the difference but it just sounds bigger if that makes sense. I also think the overall tone is improved, sort of warmer and fuller. It's always difficult because you have pre-conceived ideas about the difference a mod will make. Unless you've done some recording 
before the changes so you can A/B it can all be conjecture. The thing is built like a tank and will probably outlive the amp ! The thing to look out for if fitting it is the careful measurement. It's bigger than the original. If you do it just right it will still, just, slide in without modding the cab.


----------



## markm

ken361 said:


> how was your EQ set? guitar used?



PRS cu 24
Gain 7, T-2, M-6, B-5, P-4, R-2
On green 2


----------



## Micky

Skylarkpilot said:


> Hi Micky,
> Thanks for the reassurance.
> The weird thing is that when I started playing I didn't notice any real difference to normal. I started out on Green 'crunch' as I was practicing some new stuff and wanted to hear it clean before I dirtied it up on the Red channel. Then I kicked in the overdrive pedal for a while just to see differences in my tone, then hit the red switch. At first I didn't even hear much difference on Red. Up to this point I'd had the volume down around four. It was when I turned the volume up a bit that I started to notice it didn't sound right. It didn't occur to me immediately that anything was wrong. I think maybe because I've played a Les Paul for the past four years and about two weeks ago started playing a Strat. I'm still getting used to the tone difference.
> Anyhow, all's well that ends well.
> 
> As for the Classic Tone Output transformer, all I can say is that it was a relatively straightforward mod. It's difficult to describe the difference but it just sounds bigger if that makes sense. I also think the overall tone is improved, sort of warmer and fuller. It's always difficult because you have pre-conceived ideas about the difference a mod will make. Unless you've done some recording
> before the changes so you can A/B it can all be conjecture. The thing is built like a tank and will probably outlive the amp ! The thing to look out for if fitting it is the careful measurement. It's bigger than the original. If you do it just right it will still, just, slide in without modding the cab.


Yes, I know all about the mod, as I did mine a couple months ago. Tight fit doesn't even begin to describe my 40c, as I have side handles installed and the OT has only 1/8 to 1/16 inch clearance. And you are also correct about preconceived perceptions of how it will sound, I wasn't sure about mine at all...

Until I turned it up.

This amp easily is one of the best sounding amps I have played in a long time, the OT, choke and C19 change has made all the difference in the world, the Eminence Man-O-War was the icing on the cake. 

The other thing I noticed was the difference between pickups is now much more pronounced, as I can easily tell when my LP is plugged in versus my Strat, and two Teles I have. Each has vastly different pickups and each has their own character that comes shining thru now that the amp has been 'opened up' so to speak. It is like everything has been accentuated now that it has been sort of finalized. 

I think the ClassicTone stuff is pretty heavy duty as far as comparison to OEM stuff is concerned, and you should be fine if all sounds OK after setting things properly. I didn't have a need for the 4-ohm tap on mine, so I left it with a connector on it in case I ever needed to change it...


----------



## ken361

Micky said:


> Yes, I know all about the mod, as I did mine a couple months ago. Tight fit doesn't even begin to describe my 40c, as I have side handles installed and the OT has only 1/8 to 1/16 inch clearance. And you are also correct about preconceived perceptions of how it will sound, I wasn't sure about mine at all...
> 
> Until I turned it up.
> 
> This amp easily is one of the best sounding amps I have played in a long time, the OT, choke and C19 change has made all the difference in the world, the Eminence Man-O-War was the icing on the cake.
> 
> The other thing I noticed was the difference between pickups is now much more pronounced, as I can easily tell when my LP is plugged in versus my Strat, and two Teles I have. Each has vastly different pickups and each has their own character that comes shining thru now that the amp has been 'opened up' so to speak. It is like everything has been accentuated now that it has been sort of finalized.
> 
> I think the ClassicTone stuff is pretty heavy duty as far as comparison to OEM stuff is concerned, and you should be fine if all sounds OK after setting things properly. I didn't have a need for the 4-ohm tap on mine, so I left it with a connector on it in case I ever needed to change it...


The OT and the choke really transformed it huh more beefy?


----------



## Micky

I dunno about 'beefy' necessarily, the speaker kinda did that.
The choke and OT definitely help when you have it cranked though.
I did notice more 'definition' in that things are not so muted and fuzzy, notes seem to stand out even with the gain turned up a bit.

I would dare to stack this up against any 50W combo...


----------



## crisis

Hi. I am new here, sort of. I have one of these on order at the moment. I am interested to see how it goes. I’ll be using a PRS Custom 22 and an old Washburn A20 Stage with a custom Brierley pick up. If the band can stop arguing I hope to give it a go at a jam in the next few weeks.


----------



## Dmann

So after a week with this amp, I've just returned it. 

Long story short, this amp simply ain't got the mojo to keep up with my band for rehearsals, which is why I bought it.

Going to look at the 100 watt head tommorrow.

Great amp at low volume, for personal practice and studio recording, or any style *other* than hard rock and metal.

Good luck.


----------



## Rahlstin

Wow you guys must practice loud. I use my 40 live and don't even have to mic it and it holds its own just fine. Your gunna love the 100w.


----------



## frankyfal

I was thinking the same thing. I never had the V above 5 on the pentode mode and it was screaming.


----------



## Dmann

Sorry but "not having mojo" doesnt mean we play too loud, or very loud at all for that matter. It means the amp can't handle palm mutes without flubbing For example playing Pat Benatars Heartbreaker. This is with the master on the lead channel on anything greater than 4, and my Tone is anything but scooped.

And yea we are a hard rock/metal act not a dance band or a blues band or an indie band. I've been doing this 27 years now, just never tried a combo and it's just the wrong tool for the job.

If it's "just screaming" in your set up and you are happy, that's all that matters.


----------



## frankyfal

Dmann said:


> Sorry but "not having mojo" doesnt mean we play too loud, or very loud at all for that matter. It means the amp can't handle palm mutes without flubbing For example playing Pat Benatars Heartbreaker. This is with the master on the lead channel on anything greater than 4, and my Tone is anything but scooped.
> 
> And yea we are a hard rock/metal act not a dance band or a blues band or an indie band. I've been doing this 27 years now, just never tried a combo and it's just the wrong tool for the job.
> 
> If it's "just screaming" in your set up and you are happy, that's all that matters.



Try a speaker swap first? Flubbing was the least of my concerns, but I had a creamback 65


----------



## ken361

I play that song a bit sounds great on mine, going past 4 it starts to push the amp a bit. prb loose head room? Changing the preamp tubes does help a lot


----------



## markm

Update on my DSL40C:

It's been about a week now and it's really starting to sound better every time I play it.
Man, when I play it a low volumes on red1 I'm really getting those smooth creamy tones I've been after. 
Still trying to get these type tones at higher volumes.
Finally get to try it with the band tonight. I'm pretty sure some of the brightness will equal a nice cut through in the mix.


----------



## markm

And a quick question:

Which preamp tube would effect the gain in the green 2 channel ?

I still feel I'm not getting enough gain out of this channel for nice breakup.


----------



## ken361

markm said:


> And a quick question:
> 
> Which preamp tube would effect the gain in the green 2 channel ?
> 
> I still feel I'm not getting enough gain out of this channel for nice breakup.



Think v2 and 3 but all work together


----------



## Rahlstin

I don't use any resonance and keep the bass knob about 2 and did not had any flubbing issue with mine either although that may change as I put a choke in it the other day and sometimes that brings the bass out a bit more. Ill know after playing tonight. I also run a quad of tungsol preamp tubes in it and they frigging rip. A person can also change the power section caps to tighten up the bottom end, id have to do some figuring to see what value though. The 100w is the same amp as the 40 just with changes to accomidate more power so u might have to watch out for flubbing still. Hopefully not though. Good luck and rock hard.


----------



## ken361

I use a tungsol in v1 too resonance at 6 with no problems, just cant push the amp pass 12 o clock lead 1 still have lots of breaking in yet


----------



## solarburn

Well if he's running a 100 watter it will prolly be through a 412 or 212. Combos do fart at higher volumes especially open back.

Mine holds together pretty well though but through my 412 it sounds much better. Palm muting can get percussive. I've not Palm muted my combo with high gain...midgain yeah. It borders splitting the cab at the volumes I play hehee.


----------



## Dmann

Yea, I could of wasted a bunch of money modding the amp, but how much to buy another speaker, and then a set of tube, taking it further with components and warranty voiding.... IMO If this or more is required to get basic usability out of the amp and even then there is no guarantee that those changes or mods are going to make the amp into something it is not.

Sorry I've been at this too long to know when it's not worth the trouble.


----------



## Rahlstin

Yeah I wouldn't spend a dime either. If it don't work, move on.


----------



## Rahlstin

Rahlstin said:


> Received the Classic Tone choke today. So its surgery time. I'll let u know how the patient makes out.



Well Im not really happy with the result. Changed the amps character too much and it just didn't "sing" like before. So out with the choke back in with the ceramic resistor rebias again and I wont screw with that anymore.


----------



## markm

A few days ago I was debating returning my 40C. 
Now it's the best amp I own. 
Just needed some break in time I guess.
I'm copping all the tones I've been after for a long time. Some classic rock, 90's and VH with ease now!


----------



## ken361

I hear ya man loving mine! sounds pretty big for a combo


----------



## Dust Bowl

Here is a link to my DSL40c review I posted elsewhere.

http://www.marshallforum.com/marshall-amps/77663-dsl40c-review.html


----------



## Dust Bowl

I use a 1936v 2x12 cab, and was wondering if a vintage 30 will just screw straight in to my DSL40c?


----------



## mikeller

Marshall newbie here - just purchased a new DSL40C a little over a week ago. First Marshall ever (long time Fender and Mesa guy).

After a few hour of tweaking I am delighted with the clean channel tones I am getting. And unlike many other tube amps - I can get good bedroom volume tones as well.

Question for you all - if I want to get a spare pair of EL34's - what is recommended?

Thanks


----------



## Micky

mikeller said:


> Marshall newbie here - just purchased a new DSL40C a little over a week ago. First Marshall ever (long time Fender and Mesa guy).
> 
> After a few hour of tweaking I am delighted with the clean channel tones I am getting. And unlike many other tube amps - I can get good bedroom volume tones as well.
> 
> Question for you all - if I want to get a spare pair of EL34's - what is recommended?
> 
> Thanks



That is a very open-ended question, but I am certain you will get all sorts of recommendations. Personally I like the TAD EL34b STR finals...

Many new members put a post in the Introduce Yourself section where you can take a moment to tell us all about yourself. Welcome aboard!


----------



## mikeller

Micky said:


> That is a very open-ended question, but I am certain you will get all sorts of recommendations. Personally I like the TAD EL34b STR finals...
> 
> Many new members put a post in the Introduce Yourself section where you can take a moment to tell us all about yourself. Welcome aboard!



Thank you - I have just added a thread now!


----------



## Rahlstin

What ever Marshall stuck in mine work pretty dang good. I have a spare quad of winged C's for the future.


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

Dust Bowl said:


> I use a 1936v 2x12 cab, and was wondering if a vintage 30 will just screw straight in to my DSL40c?



Yeah, that Vintage 30 will fit perfectly with no modification. I'm sure I don't have to tell you, but watch the impedance and make sure you plug it in to the proper input. Lots of guys here use the Vintage 30 in their DSL40C around here. Welcome to the forum!


----------



## Dust Bowl

Greatwhitenorth said:


> Yeah, that Vintage 30 will fit perfectly with no modification. I'm sure I don't have to tell you, but watch the impedance and make sure you plug it in to the proper input. Lots of guys here use the Vintage 30 in their DSL40C around here. Welcome to the forum!



Thanks for the info, I saw a review of a guy running a cream back in his DSL40c it was awesome, but I don't want to have too much of a tonal variation in my sound as my DSL40c is my go-to amp for small venues and studio/home work.


----------



## Dust Bowl

Dmann said:


> Sorry but "not having mojo" doesnt mean we play too loud, or very loud at all for that matter. It means the amp can't handle palm mutes without flubbing For example playing Pat Benatars Heartbreaker. This is with the master on the lead channel on anything greater than 4, and my Tone is anything but scooped.
> 
> And yea we are a hard rock/metal act not a dance band or a blues band or an indie band. I've been doing this 27 years now, just never tried a combo and it's just the wrong tool for the job.
> 
> If it's "just screaming" in your set up and you are happy, that's all that matters.



What works for one does not always work for another. Lets not forget that the majority of our 'Mojo' comes from our fingers. Finding the 'Mojo' with gear that matches our fingers is an on-going quest that is never really over.


----------



## ken361

Good preamp tubes for warmth and clarity I like the stock speaker! very classic rock VH stuff


----------



## rock4ever

I've had a dsl40c for several months now. I bought it used and I've had the c19 cap disabled and a celestion vintage 30 installed. Even with the cap disabled, I still find the amp to be very trebly.

I've found that getting good tones from this has been frustrating for me. Fortunately I have another amp for other things.

So far I like channel 1 clean, especially since it takes pedals very well. The high gain channel I dont like at all. 

Anyone have settings for a good bonamassa tone? I saw the youtube vids with one of the dsls and I'm not buying that turn it all to 10 stuff at the end. I've been trying different settings with the treble near 0 but still not there yet.

Also- I'm wondering if my presence/resonance controls are messed up as I have a very difficult time telling any difference in tone moving one knob all the way up or down.


----------



## Micky

For some it is tough to get it dialed in...
What guitar and pickups you using?

For me, where I practice I have to dial down the treble to 3-4 bass to 6-7 and mid to 7-8 with the Presence and Resonance set at 2-3. Your mileage may vary...

The Presence and Resonance seem, to me anyway, like there is not a lot of adjustment in those controls UNTIL you get the volume up a bit. Those are the only things I have struggled with, and as I don't play out a lot it is tough sometimes to get those controls set right.

There was one time on stage in an auditorium I had to turn the Resonance down as it got farty bass, and the Presence up to cut thru the mix. It seemed to make more of a difference on the Ultra channel, I think I remember it was a couple Rush tunes where I used Classic Crunch and Ultra II with the gain down a bit on both channels and the volume up near 6-7.

For me, each spot where I park the amp requires different settings...

OH - Most new members put a post in the Introduce Yourself section where they can tell us all a little bit about themselves...


----------



## ken361

Love the lead 1 stock speaker and no c19 ! preamp tubes are a good key to tone. Also drop a nos Slyvania in the PI and adjust your pups! I keep my treble at noon or so and mids same I get that EVH tone perfect! well almost. plugging straight it? anything mucking up the tone? good cables? guitars? turning everything down your just killing the Marshall tone. Have to experiment!


----------



## ken361

Micky said:


> For some it is tough to get it dialed in...
> What guitar and pickups you using?
> 
> For me, where I practice I have to dial down the treble to 3-4 bass to 6-7 and mid to 7-8 with the Presence and Resonance set at 2-3. Your mileage may vary...
> 
> The Presence and Resonance seem, to me anyway, like there is not a lot of adjustment in those controls UNTIL you get the volume up a bit. Those are the only things I have struggled with, and as I don't play out a lot it is tough sometimes to get those controls set right.
> 
> There was one time on stage in an auditorium I had to turn the Resonance down as it got farty bass, and the Presence up to cut thru the mix. It seemed to make more of a difference on the Ultra channel, I think I remember it was a couple Rush tunes where I used Classic Crunch and Ultra II with the gain down a bit on both channels and the volume up near 6-7.
> 
> For me, each spot where I park the amp requires different settings...
> 
> OH - Most new members put a post in the Introduce Yourself section where they can tell us all a little bit about themselves...


I know what your saying playing it at different places! OD set the amp like 2 feet from a wall for a bigger thicker tone


----------



## ken361

I adjusted my red lead 1 first and my crunch is a little bassy but not bad it does AC/DC Highway to Hell so good! Creem ect.


----------



## rock4ever

Micky said:


> For some it is tough to get it dialed in...
> What guitar and pickups you using?
> 
> For me, where I practice I have to dial down the treble to 3-4 bass to 6-7 and mid to 7-8 with the Presence and Resonance set at 2-3. Your mileage may vary...
> 
> The Presence and Resonance seem, to me anyway, like there is not a lot of adjustment in those controls UNTIL you get the volume up a bit. Those are the only things I have struggled with, and as I don't play out a lot it is tough sometimes to get those controls set right.
> 
> There was one time on stage in an auditorium I had to turn the Resonance down as it got farty bass, and the Presence up to cut thru the mix. It seemed to make more of a difference on the Ultra channel, I think I remember it was a couple Rush tunes where I used Classic Crunch and Ultra II with the gain down a bit on both channels and the volume up near 6-7.
> 
> For me, each spot where I park the amp requires different settings...
> 
> OH - Most new members put a post in the Introduce Yourself section where they can tell us all a little bit about themselves...



Hi and thanks for taking the time to respond to my post. I use this amp at home only. Usually the geets I plug in are

PRS Custom 24... one with 57/08s or one with BKP Nailbombs(ceramic bridge). Perhaps this amp not suit high output pickups? The C-bomb isn't super high but I think its resistance is somewhere around a Duncan JB, perhaps a tad less.

Gibson LP Std- It's a 2013 model I think it has burstbucker pro pickups.
Gibson G0 with custom buckers.

One some occasion I'll plug in a PRS P22 with 53/10s. Or a Gibby flying v with Duncan distortion/Jazz

On the clean channel I've been switching from a Maxon OD808, Plimsoul, or Bonamassa fet driver out in front of the amp.


----------



## Rahlstin

well might as well post my settings...
lesPaul Traditional w 57 &57+ 
DSL40C C19 clip, 4 Tungsol preamp tubes. stock everything else, 

Green: Crunch button in, gain 5, Vol 2.5-3.5 depending on drummer...
Red: lead 1, gain 7, vol 2.5-3.5 depending on the same drummer....

Tone: Treb:3, Mid: 7, Bass 2-3, Pres: 4, Reso: 0, reverb: who cares.... Tone shift: out


----------



## ken361

I have a 2012 trad pro II also Alpine white


----------



## crisis

Well mine came the other day and I have only had a couple of chances to play with it. In the rather bright small room I practice in it sounds great. I have it running at 20W which is one of the main reasons I chose this particular amp. I want to drive it hard through the power amp stage as opposed to winding up too much pre gain. The two “Classic” channels sound great, everything I would expect for a classic Marshall sound. Lead 1 is the pick of the Ultra Channels. At the volumes I’m playing Lead 2 sounds a bit wooly. I think you really need to adjust the EQ specifically for Lead 1 and 2 as opposed to expecting them to require slight tweaks. If you read and appreciate the intro in the manual it gives you a good idea of what the four modes are trying to emulate. It’s a good reference as to how to set them up and what to expect.
I really want to get this to a jam with the band and see what it sounds like wound up. I do have a 2 x 12 cab I built with a Greenback and a V30 if it needs more grunt but one of the other reasons I bought this is because I don’t want to lug around speaker cabs.


----------



## Dizzyg12

OK, so I'm still dealing with the buzzing noise on the red channel. I had some time today to break it apart and I rotated pre amp tubes. Still got the buzz. Eventually put all new pre amp tubes in just to say "F it" and give it a shot. Still buzzing. I decided to check the bias on the power tubes, which was a little off - one tube was a little less than 30mA. The other was at 37.5 which is what I set it at previously. So I adjusted them and evened them out both at 38mA. (plate voltage was 457). The buzz was still there. I left it sit for a while and suddenly one of the power tubes dropped to less than 10mA. I thought that was pretty weird. The other one was stable. Figured I had a bad power tube, so I put in a set of JJ E34L that I had and rebiased it. let it sit for a little bit and it remained stable. The buzz is still there though. I have to say it sounds ****ing fantastic now so I definitely had some weak tubes before I dug into it today so it was worth the trouble. Just wish I had an answer for the buzz. I'm wondering now if it's just something with the power in the house. 

the buzz is affected by amp volume. doesn't go away when touching strings, so it's not a grounding issue. Guitar volume really has no affect. Only buzzes when guitar is plugged in. When not plugged in, it just has some white noise. buzzes with or without my pedal board plugged in. 

On the green channel it's quiet as a mouse. You wouldn't even know it was on. 

Any ideas or suggestions from the experts?


----------



## Micky

Get the guitar grounded.
Amp is fine...


----------



## Dizzyg12

Micky said:


> Get the guitar grounded.
> Amp is fine...



3 guitars, noise stays the same.


I'll also add that the amount of gain makes a difference.


----------



## lordquilton

Dizzyg12 said:


> 3 guitars, noise stays the same.
> 
> 
> I'll also add that the amount of gain makes a difference.




Cable?


----------



## Dizzyg12

lordquilton said:


> Cable?



Nope - tried a few different cables.


----------



## ken361

Any strat players here? how you liking with this amp?


----------



## Dizzyg12

ken361 said:


> Any strat players here? how you liking with this amp?



I was playing some jimi on my les Paul today and thought "I could really use a stray right now". I bet it would be killer with this amp! I'm not a strat guy but some songs just need it.


----------



## Dizzyg12

What are you guys using to hold the screws in on the back plate? My holes are stripping out. I've seen people using some kind of locking but thingy. Where TJ get them and what size? What size screws? Stupid mdf!


----------



## markm

ken361 said:


> Any strat players here? how you liking with this amp?



Getting some pretty good strat tones with the splitcoil positions of my PRS


----------



## cavedog69

*Re: Sneaky c19*



frankyfal said:


> My personal experience:
> C19 only tames the treble from the red channel and voids the warranty. *Before you clip anything set up your rig as if you only had the green channel and see if you can get all your tones by cleaning up with the guitar volume and boosting with a pedal for solo's. * In my experience the red channel is too fizzy with or without the clip and if you need a warranted repair the techs are not blind or stupid they will see the C19 solder has been tampered with and you will be screwed. Plus my cheap Vietnamese lock nuts fell off once you open the chassis so they will know by that too that it was tampered with.
> 
> IMO JVM215c is worth the extra $800 especially if you plan on keeping this amp for at least 5 yrs.


you are right. They will know if it has been f...ed with. I have a year warranty on myLes Paul. The warranty dude said that if it kept messing up to jump on the neck and break it , he was right! So I got a new Les Paul I do have a mg412 cab with I think are ghl30 mg. I can send picks. Thanks for not letting blow my money.


----------



## cavedog69

*Re: Sneaky c19*



cavedog69 said:


> you are right. They will know if it has been f...ed with. I have a year 5 warranty on my Les Paul. The warranty dude said that if it kept messing up to jump on the neck and break it , he was right! So I got a new Les Paul I do have a mg412 cab with I think are gh l30 mg. I can send picks. Thanks for not letting blow my money.


A gun in the hand is better than I cop on the phone!


----------



## cavedog69

I love to find out about the things i am interested, like buzzing through my furman and why gc can't seem to ground my Les Paul. If you can suggest a good starting point, i would like to know were I can get the basic info.


----------



## MarshallDog

Dizzyg12 said:


> What are you guys using to hold the screws in on the back plate? My holes are stripping out. I've seen people using some kind of locking but thingy. Where TJ get them and what size? What size screws? Stupid mdf!



Simply take a wood tooth pick, coat it with wood glue and stuff it in the hole, might need two side by side for a snug fit and then snip it off flush. Then simply screw in the screw. It will work fine, it's an old carpenter trick to fix tripped out screw holes.


----------



## markm

Ran my 40C through its first band practice last night.
All I can say is WOW! Really sounded good and cut through like a knife.

I'm set using green 2 and red 1 for just about everything I need. Love how green 2 cleans up enough for me to use as a clean channel and when you dig in and crank the guitar volume gets just dirty enough. Solos on red 1 were just searing and sustain filled. 
Everything I played sounded so much clearer and just all around better than my other amps.

Really enjoyed it!


----------



## ken361

Dizzyg12 said:


> I was playing some jimi on my les Paul today and thought "I could really use a stray right now". I bet it would be killer with this amp! I'm not a strat guy but some songs just need it.



Thinking about trading my pedals and my 2000 mim strat with stock sss coils for a new one with a humbucker. It nice with cleans and the lead 1 it pretty decent for Jimi Voodoo Chile stuff. I know a real good strat will would be killer sounding. Im use to my Les Paul and that volume knob on the strat gets in my way some


----------



## ken361

markm said:


> Getting some pretty good strat tones with the splitcoil positions of my PRS



Im get some pretty good crunch with the split coils on my Les Paul, very nice!


----------



## Pasloade74

Dizzyg12 said:


> OK, so I'm still dealing with the buzzing noise on the red channel. I had some time today to break it apart and I rotated pre amp tubes. Still got the buzz. Eventually put all new pre amp tubes in just to say "F it" and give it a shot. Still buzzing. I decided to check the bias on the power tubes, which was a little off - one tube was a little less than 30mA. The other was at 37.5 which is what I set it at previously. So I adjusted them and evened them out both at 38mA. (plate voltage was 457). The buzz was still there. I left it sit for a while and suddenly one of the power tubes dropped to less than 10mA. I thought that was pretty weird. The other one was stable. Figured I had a bad power tube, so I put in a set of JJ E34L that I had and rebiased it. let it sit for a little bit and it remained stable. The buzz is still there though. I have to say it sounds ****ing fantastic now so I definitely had some weak tubes before I dug into it today so it was worth the trouble. Just wish I had an answer for the buzz. I'm wondering now if it's just something with the power in the house.
> 
> the buzz is affected by amp volume. doesn't go away when touching strings, so it's not a grounding issue. Guitar volume really has no affect. Only buzzes when guitar is plugged in. When not plugged in, it just has some white noise. buzzes with or without my pedal board plugged in.
> 
> On the green channel it's quiet as a mouse. You wouldn't even know it was on.
> 
> Any ideas or suggestions from the experts?



Same thing happens with mine. Swapped tube, speaker and used different guitars. Its not noticeable with the band. Just learned to deal with it at home. Kind of sucks.


----------



## ken361

it wouldnt hurt to spray contact on all the tube pins and rework them back, does wonders sometimes. It help with a static noise on a new twin amp.


----------



## Dizzyg12

Pasloade74 said:


> Same thing happens with mine. Swapped tube, speaker and used different guitars. Its not noticeable with the band. Just learned to deal with it at home. Kind of sucks.



Yeah it's not not table when playing and really only a bother at high gain settings. If I dial back the gain or switch the the other lead channel it's not as bad but of course I lose a little something.


----------



## Dizzyg12

ken361 said:


> it wouldnt hurt to spray contact on all the tube pins and rework them back, does wonders sometimes. It help with a static noise on a new twin amp.





Was actually thinking of doing that to the input jack and see if that makes a difference.


----------



## ken361

Anybody still using the stock speaker? Only have like 8 hrs on it,still pretty bright but cutting though. Still want to give it more time,could try a GE or a Rft tube in the v1


----------



## solarburn

ken361 said:


> Anybody still using the stock speaker? Only have like 8 hrs on it,still pretty bright but cutting though. Still want to give it more time,could try a GE or a Rft tube in the v1



It will warm up. Keep breaking it in. RFT in V2. V1 AC7HG+. Warm great sounding tube. Should be very Quiet and the HG stands for high grade not high gain.


----------



## Micky

Dizzyg12 said:


> What are you guys using to hold the screws in on the back plate? My holes are stripping out. I've seen people using some kind of locking but thingy. Where TJ get them and what size? What size screws? Stupid mdf!



I used t-nuts in mine, I will look for the post, it is somewhere in this thread...

Look here:

http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...dsl40c-information-thread-34.html#post1097610


----------



## ken361

solarburnDSL50 said:


> It will warm up. Keep breaking it in. RFT in V2. V1 AC7HG+. Warm great sounding tube. Should be very Quiet and the HG stands for high grade not high gain.



Thanks bud!


----------



## lordquilton

ken361 said:


> Any strat players here? how you liking with this amp?




[SC] https://soundcloud.com/lordquilton/strat[/SC]


Green channel, Crunch mode all the way through.
Starts Neck and Middle position, vol.7
Second part Bridge pickup vol. 10
Third part overdrive pedal engaged.

Some day, I'd like to get a Fender for cleans, ABY box with the 40C doing the dirt. But I'm pretty comfortable for now.


----------



## ken361

Check it out Mon when I'm home


----------



## Swede

Got to try my ministack @ todays jam....Sounded pretty damn good, even though I would have like some more time dialing it in. Cut well in the mix......LOUD


----------



## Pasloade74

Swede said:


> Got to try my ministack @ todays jam....Sounded pretty damn good, even though I would have like some more time dialing it in. Cut well in the mix......LOUD



That cab looks great! What speakers are you using?


----------



## Swede

Thank you pasloade....Built it myself with help from forum member JohnH....I have an Invader in the amp, and a ET65 in cabinet (closed back for this jam)


----------



## stock_hippie

Swede said:


> Got to try my ministack @ todays jam....Sounded pretty damn good, even though I would have like some more time dialing it in. Cut well in the mix......LOUD



you look pretty cool too..


----------



## stock_hippie

this is all..so over my head..


----------



## Swede

stock_hippie said:


> you look pretty cool too..



hahahaha. That is our drummer, older guy but with the style of the early 70's hard rock drummers.......Great guy.


----------



## Swede

stock_hippie said:


> this is all..so over my head..



???


----------



## Pasloade74

Swede said:


> Thank you pasloade....Built it myself with help from forum member JohnH....I have an Invader in the amp, and a ET65 in cabinet (closed back for this jam)



Wow that looks great. Your picture is giving me motivation to build one too. I have some leftover 3/4 oak plywood from my kitchen remodel. Now I have a use for it. If you get some time can you send me the dimensions you used? Thanks


----------



## ken361

solarburnDSL50 said:


> It will warm up. Keep breaking it in. RFT in V2. V1 AC7HG+. Warm great sounding tube. Should be very Quiet and the HG stands for high grade not high gain.



RFT worked well!


----------



## Swede

Pasloade74 said:


> Wow that looks great. Your picture is giving me motivation to build one too. I have some leftover 3/4 oak plywood from my kitchen remodel. Now I have a use for it. If you get some time can you send me the dimensions you used? Thanks



Im not sure I have the drawing still.....You might want to check with JohnH, he might have the dimensions for you

Australian forum member


----------



## markm

Just finished up a long Sunday afternoon jam with my DSL40C.

Really blown away with the tones I'm getting. 
A little delay on red 1 is so good for some VH tunes. Back off on the guitars volume and you have so many other tones in between. And green is just great on both 1 and 2 depending on what tone you are lokking for.
This just blows my Rectoverb away. So much I'm considering getting another for a back up / dual set up and just unloading the Mesa.
On maybe a 15C........

All I can say to anyone is give it some break in time; dial in the tones with your ears and you'll be happy!


----------



## Pumpkin88

crisis said:


> Well mine came the other day and I have only had a couple of chances to play with it. In the rather bright small room I practice in it sounds great. I have it running at 20W which is one of the main reasons I chose this particular amp. I want to drive it hard through the power amp stage as opposed to winding up too much pre gain. The two “Classic” channels sound great, everything I would expect for a classic Marshall sound. Lead 1 is the pick of the Ultra Channels. At the volumes I’m playing Lead 2 sounds a bit wooly. I think you really need to adjust the EQ specifically for Lead 1 and 2 as opposed to expecting them to require slight tweaks. If you read and appreciate the intro in the manual it gives you a good idea of what the four modes are trying to emulate. It’s a good reference as to how to set them up and what to expect.
> I really want to get this to a jam with the band and see what it sounds like wound up. I do have a 2 x 12 cab I built with a Greenback and a V30 if it needs more grunt but one of the other reasons I bought this is because I don’t want to lug around speaker cabs.



You have it backwards dude. With DSL's you want to overload the Preamp section. I suggest running it on 40w and turning up the gain/volume, control with guitar volume. Thats where the character tone comes from for this amp.


----------



## Pumpkin88

> Originally Posted by *ken361*
> 
> 
> _Any strat players here? how you liking with this amp?_


Thats all I've been using. With that said my strats are not stock, one has Lace Sensors and the other has dual humbuckers. Both set ups are geared toward higher gain settings. The dual humbucker strat does metal really well.


----------



## ken361

Pumpkin88 said:


> Thats all I've been using. With that said my strats are not stock, one has Lace Sensors and the other has dual humbuckers. Both set ups are geared toward higher gain settings. The dual humbucker strat does metal really well.



I saw super mint 1987 MIJ strat at Guitar Center might I get on some trades.


----------



## ken361

I was messing with channel 2 lead 2 with gain at half way,kicking serious heavy tones pinch harmonics like crazy!


----------



## TheSunShinesThrough

Can anybody tell me how to use my DSL40c at half power? I see the switch on the back of my amp, but I noticed 3 different speaker jacks. 1 16 OHM jack and 2 8 OHM jacks. Do I have to mess with these at all?


----------



## iron broadsword

No need to worry about different impedances when using half power, it's not like pulling two tubes in a 100w amp. Just don't use that switch while the amp is on.


----------



## TheSunShinesThrough

iron broadsword said:


> No need to worry about different impedances when using half power, it's not like pulling two tubes in a 100w amp. Just don't use that switch while the amp is on.



Thanks, brah.


----------



## ken361

use standby


----------



## ken361

Chk this cartoon video on the DSL funnnyyyy!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7WnYKo7oCo


----------



## ken361

Quick up date! after owning like 20 plus amps is 7+ years and not jiving with most, the DSL 40 is one of the most satisfying amp I ever owned! Set it up and rock! no endless tweaking like my old pedal set or amps looking for that tone. Crystal clear dynamic raw juicy tones


----------



## riefil

ken361 said:


> Quick up date! after owning like 20 plus amps is 7+ years and not jiving with most, the DSL 40 is one of the most satisfying amp I ever owned! Set it up and rock! no endless tweaking like my old pedal set or amps looking for that tone. Crystal clear dynamic raw juicy tones



So far I feel the same way. The only difference is every once in a while I tweak the Resonance knob a bit. That's it!


----------



## ken361

riefil said:


> So far I feel the same way. The only difference is every once in a while I tweak the Resonance knob a bit. That's it!



Since I played at my house today I had to turn that knob a tad because im not near a wall like at GF place')


----------



## Swede

only difference i did at the jam was lowering the resonance, upping the mids a little and crank the volume. utra 1, gain at 2, 40 watt mode with the OFA


----------



## ken361

What transformers are in these? any good?


----------



## Micky

ken361 said:


> What transformers are in these? any good?



What? In the 40c?

Yes, they are pretty good.
Photos in the first few posts of this thread.

The PT is very difficult to find a replacement other than the original.


----------



## ken361

yeah 40c thanks!


----------



## USAPatriot

ken361 said:


> use standby



I one-up that and shut my amp completely off before I flip the switch. It shouldn't matter...and no, the wattage setting does not affect the speaker output. A 16 ohm cab is always a 16 ohm cab as is an 8 or a 4. You'll need a good ear to tell the difference between the 20w and 40w settings and the volume difference is all but nil. You'd need a meter to show you the volume dropped. -Rod-


----------



## ken361

I didnt know about that standby until someone mention it on youtube, I actually switched it a couple times not on standby. I only received the DSL 15c H booklet! I looked up the 40C /100 on the net too make sure.


----------



## Pasloade74

Swede said:


> Got to try my ministack @ todays jam....Sounded pretty damn good, even though I would have like some more time dialing it in. Cut well in the mix......LOUD




I've started building my extension cab but I'm starting to second guess my dimensions. Did you build yours as tall as the amp? I started too and it seems awfully big. I made it 20" tall. I'm thinking of cutting it down to 16"-17". Any thoughts? Thanks


----------



## Swede

I dont have any thoughts unfortunately as I know nothing about the whys, as it relates to the construction. i.e Internal volume vs specific speaker (voicing)

mine is about the same measurements width and height as the amp, but 12 inches deep, while amp is only about 10"

Mine was no guesswork. it was built exactly as a drawing, to end up at an exact internal volume.

JohnH is the guy that helped me.


----------



## Swede

Here is the thread when I built my cab Pasloade


http://www.marshallforum.com/cabinets-speakers/72373-start-my-1x12-cab.html


----------



## crisis

Pumpkin88 said:


> You have it backwards dude. With DSL's you want to overload the Preamp section. I suggest running it on 40w and turning up the gain/volume, control with guitar volume. Thats where the character tone comes from for this amp.


Really? Even down low in the room I haev it at home it sounds good with gain on around 4. I will see what happens when I finally get to jam.


----------



## ken361

I run mine at 7 lead 1


----------



## riefil

I've been able to spend more and more time with mine. I keep finding more and more great sounds. My 15 year old son who is very much into metal(I'm a classic rock guy myself) kind of challenged me to play some Disturbed last night. A little knob twiddling on lead2 and ......boom I was there. I continue to be surprised by the DSL40C. I remember the first time I played through one and was less than pleased. After reading through this thread I figured I was missing SOMETHING. Well, I was right. Thanks gang.


----------



## ken361

Are you down with the sickness! If you know post a sound clip love to hear it. Guy on the Gearpage.com is looking for fender cleans and a marshall type gain crunch sound i said the DSL! lots others saying mesa and stuff. Get a Marshall if you want a Marshall! Lot of people havent tried these I guess? even though its a shared EQ it has a great crunch and high gain channels. People say you cant have both! oh really?? He did try one only at low volume and said it was ok but he wants a head. Told these come alive when you crank them.


----------



## riefil

ken361 said:


> Are you down with the sickness! If you know post a sound clip love to hear it. Guy on the Gearpage.com is looking for fender cleans and a marshall type gain crunch sound i said the DSL! lots others saying mesa and stuff. Get a Marshall if you want a Marshall! Lot of people havent tried these I guess? even though its a shared EQ it has a great crunch and high gain channels. People say you cant have both! oh really?? He did try one only at low volume and said it was ok but he wants a head. Told these come alive when you crank them.



Ken oh yeah I was Down With The Sickness  I do have a new appreciation for right hand technique as mine apparently sucks big time. Not to mention playing in dropped Db tuning was interesting to say the least.
As for having it all in one package, I feel the DSL delivers pretty well. Add a couple of pedals and you can play almost anything from Allmans to ZZ Top and anything in between.


----------



## ken361

I never did try to attempt that song but I like the riffing. Yeah I like old classic rock it delivers and I think the stock speaker will be fine. I have some old stock in the v2 RFT and a slyvania in the PI and a mix of a tungsol and that. Check Jim B new demo on you tube
He using a tele at the end
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBZr4J7T1bI


----------



## Swede

riefil said:


> Add a couple of pedals and you can play almost anything from Allmans to ZZ Top and anything in between.



You mean Allman to ZZ as an alphabetical thing I hope. cause musically the stretch is not very wide


----------



## riefil

Swede said:


> You mean Allman to ZZ as an alphabetical thing I hope. cause musically the stretch is not very wide



Yes Swede that's exactly ridge. Ok how about ABBA to Zebra? LOL


----------



## USAPatriot

AC/DC to Zappa?


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

I checked the bias on mine today. Not because I thought it needed it Just to see if it had drifted at all. Lo and behold it was right where I set it several months ago. I decided to lower it a tad just to see if I like it. I'll crank it up tomorrow and come up with a verdict.


----------



## riefil

USAPatriot said:


> AC/DC to Zappa?



Andy Williams to Zamphir


----------



## ken361

Oh I did get a MIM Strat Sunday going to have to use the stock pups until I get more cheese


----------



## USAPatriot

riefil said:


> Andy Williams to Zamphir



Giuseppe Aldrovandini (1671–1707) to Zacara da Teramo (c. 1350/1360–c. 1413/1416)

Composers  -Rod-


----------



## riefil

USAPatriot said:


> Giuseppe Aldrovandini (1671–1707) to Zacara da Teramo (c. 1350/1360–c. 1413/1416)
> 
> Composers  -Rod-



Nice!


----------



## GuitarMechanic

ken361 said:


> Any strat players here? how you liking with this amp?



Right here 
Stock Taco-Caster with the '69 Pickups and a Part-O-Caster with Texas Specials and they sound great through the amp
New to this forum though I have been lurking on and off for a long time
Just got the DSL40C last weekend haven't had a chance to do a lot woth it yet but so far I dig it. Gonna do the bias and maybe that "C-19" mod thing this weekend but so far I love it


----------



## ken361

Played loud today those stock humbuckers are pretty bright! I got the cleans sounding really good though. I started with the neck and played clean loud till it sounded best. Then pos 2 and 3 I think this is the proper way to adjust them. Then I did the humbucker on the red lead 1. I know I need some alnicos bad money is tight. I raised the poles some in the middle. Les paul is killer though i just got to dial it in more I guess. I was playing pretty loud though. I have it a bit better with treble at noon. Still have a lot of hours to break in yet.


----------



## ken361

GuitarMechanic said:


> Right here
> Stock Taco-Caster with the '69 Pickups and a Part-O-Caster with Texas Specials and they sound great through the amp
> New to this forum though I have been lurking on and off for a long time
> Just got the DSL40C last weekend haven't had a chance to do a lot woth it yet but so far I dig it. Gonna do the bias and maybe that "C-19" mod thing this weekend but so far I love it



Good preamp tubes will help and let the speaker break in


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

GuitarMechanic said:


> Right here
> Stock Taco-Caster with the '69 Pickups and a Part-O-Caster with Texas Specials and they sound great through the amp
> New to this forum though I have been lurking on and off for a long time
> Just got the DSL40C last weekend haven't had a chance to do a lot woth it yet but so far I dig it. Gonna do the bias and maybe that "C-19" mod thing this weekend but so far I love it


Welcome to the forum GuitarMechanic. Do the mods one at a time and see if it makes the difference you're looking for(if any).


----------



## frankyfal

GuitarMechanic said:


> Right here
> Stock Taco-Caster with the '69 Pickups and a Part-O-Caster with Texas Specials and they sound great through the amp
> New to this forum though I have been lurking on and off for a long time
> Just got the DSL40C last weekend haven't had a chance to do a lot woth it yet but so far I dig it. Gonna do the bias and maybe that "C-19" mod thing this weekend but so far I love it


Once you open the head portion the locknuts break off voiding your warranty. Be careful


----------



## MarshallDog

frankyfal said:


> Once you open the head portion the locknuts break off voiding your warranty. Be careful



A suggestion is once you open it up, assuming the pressed in chassis nuts don't fall out, simply take some Super Glue and put some on both sides where the nut is pressed into the chassis. be careful to use just a little and don't get it into the threads. They should stay in place just fine...has worked for me for a long time now.


----------



## GuitarMechanic

frankyfal said:


> Once you open the head portion the locknuts break off voiding your warranty. Be careful



UGH
So you can't even go in and adjust the bias then eh? That's kinda weird....
I will keep that in mind though, thanks for sharing.


----------



## GuitarMechanic

Oh yeah and
I LOVE this thread SO much info....Gonna take awhile to see all the posts


----------



## Swede

m taking my rig, dsl 40 and cabinet to practice friday night again. question, i for one prefer the tonality in half power mode, but it doesnt cut it volume wise for our rehearsals,

what tweaking if any would turn the tonality of the full power mode in to half power mode?
to me, everything sounds better with the half power setting.


----------



## frankyfal

GuitarMechanic said:


> UGH
> So you can't even go in and adjust the bias then eh? That's kinda weird....
> I will keep that in mind though, thanks for sharing.



It is under warranty. Maybe get an authorized Marshall repair shop to check the bias under warranty claiming the sound is not like the one in the store. This way if the nuts fall off it is documented. I did the c19 clip, lost the nuts and then my amp developed a weird aftertone. I was SOL on the warranty.


----------



## solarburn

GuitarMechanic said:


> UGH
> So you can't even go in and adjust the bias then eh? That's kinda weird....
> I will keep that in mind though, thanks for sharing.



I have gone in mine numerous times for tube changes and biasing without any trouble with screws.

I used 2 screws to keep the back on while I did my tweaking so I didn't wear out all the holes. 2 screws hold the back on fine for sound testing. Be careful and it will be fine. Never had any issues with the chassis screws either.

As a player I have to say demo the amp for a couple weeks at least before any mods. Get a solid feel for it with your gear. Hell you're not going to have speaker break in until later and the tone will change for the better when it does break in. Suggestion only cause I don't tell peeps what to do even if I think my experience has proven otherwise. I will voice it though.

Enjoy the little beast and have fun tweaking it. I've biased mine several times rolling a few power tubes and have had no problems. Biasing is something we all should be able to do with this amp without having to take it to a tech. Learn if you don't know how and be careful always of electrical shock. I've never been bit by a DSL.


----------



## ken361

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I have gone in mine numerous times for tube changes and biasing without any trouble with screws.
> 
> I used 2 screws to keep the back on while I did my tweaking so I didn't wear out all the holes. 2 screws hold the back on fine for sound testing. Be careful and it will be fine. Never had any issues with the chassis screws either.
> 
> As a player I have to say demo the amp for a couple weeks at least before any mods. Get a solid feel for it with your gear. Hell you're not going to have speaker break in until later and the tone will change for the better when it does break in. Suggestion only cause I don't tell peeps what to do even if I think my experience has proven otherwise. I will voice it though.
> 
> Enjoy the little beast and have fun tweaking it. I've biased mine several times rolling a few power tubes and have had no problems. Biasing is something we all should be able to do with this amp without having to take it to a tech. Learn if you don't know how and be careful always of electrical shock. I've never been bit by a DSL.



need a meter and learn to bias! should sound even better. What are the stock power tube brand? I know cheap ones with make it bright or raspy


----------



## solarburn

ken361 said:


> need a meter and learn to bias! should sound even better. What are the stock power tube brand? I know cheap ones with make it bright or raspy



I don't remember what the stock power tubes are. May have been posted earlier I think...

I liked mine over the 34L's I rolled in. The stock ones fit the mids I like better. I want to try some KT77's in it...


----------



## 60Cycle

Anyone using a Tubescreamer? Im in love with the green channel, gain at 10 add in a the Tubescreamer no gain, level and tone dimed I have no need for the red channel anymore.

Still stock had it biased cool at the amp shop.


----------



## dave999z

60Cycle said:


> Anyone using a Tubescreamer? Im in love with the green channel, gain at 10 add in a the Tubescreamer no gain, level and tone dimed I have no need for the red channel anymore.
> 
> Still stock had it biased cool at the amp shop.



I normally use the red channel for lead tones, but if I'm messing around with my looper pedal and want to loop some clean chords and then improvise over it with a lead tone, that requires using an overdrive pedal. For that I use a TS-808 reissue. Sounds great. Sometimes wish the TS overdrive knob went to 11. Thinking of a mod or making one from BYOC. (I built their Royal Phase pedal, and it's awesome.)


----------



## Jethro Rocker

60Cycle said:


> Anyone using a Tubescreamer? Im in love with the green channel, gain at 10 add in a the Tubescreamer no gain, level and tone dimed I have no need for the red channel anymore.
> 
> Still stock had it biased cool at the amp shop.



Sort of, a Bad Monkey. I don't dime the EQ though. Awesome raunch rhythm, lead 1 for solos.


----------



## markm

60Cycle said:


> Anyone using a Tubescreamer? Im in love with the green channel, gain at 10 add in a the Tubescreamer no gain, level and tone dimed I have no need for the red channel anymore.
> 
> Still stock had it biased cool at the amp shop.


 

I'm doing the same with a tubescreamer, but have my green 2 gain at about 7 so I can get some cleanish tones too. And still use red 1 for solos and harder rock.
Lovin this amp!


----------



## ken361

Green for crunch and red for high gain stuff, the Strat cleans are pretty nice when I set up clean channel.


----------



## iron broadsword

dave999z said:


> I normally use the red channel for lead tones, but if I'm messing around with my looper pedal and want to loop some clean chords and then improvise over it with a lead tone, that requires using an overdrive pedal. For that I use a TS-808 reissue. Sounds great. Sometimes wish the TS overdrive knob went to 11. Thinking of a mod or making one from BYOC. (I built their Royal Phase pedal, and it's awesome.)



BYOC's stuff is really nice.. I always go to them or GeneralGuitarGadgets. Best pedal I ever put together was the BYOC muff though, that thing is so gnarly!


----------



## GuitarMechanic

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I have gone in mine numerous times for tube changes and biasing without any trouble with screws.
> 
> 
> Enjoy the little beast and have fun tweaking it. I've biased mine several times rolling a few power tubes and have had no problems. Biasing is something we all should be able to do with this amp without having to take it to a tech. Learn if you don't know how and be careful always of electrical shock. I've never been bit by a DSL.



Yeah I think I will just double check the Bias to make sure it's ok, I have a multi-meter and I have biased the old HRD I used to have so I am familiar enough to not shock the S%$# out of myself  
I really like this site and thanks for all the advice everybody 
I am going to do the side handles like Micky too


----------



## Swede

Swede said:


> m taking my rig, dsl 40 and cabinet to practice friday night again. question, i for one prefer the tonality in half power mode, but it doesnt cut it volume wise for our rehearsals,
> 
> what tweaking if any would turn the tonality of the full power mode in to half power mode?
> to me, everything sounds better with the half power setting.



Anybody have any suggestions for SEE ABOVE!


----------



## USAPatriot

Swede said:


> Anybody have any suggestions for SEE ABOVE!



You shouldn't have that issue, Swede. I don't know the math but it's only a 1 or 2 db difference with the volume up. If you really can't be heard at rehearsal then you'll need to EQ around it or get the amp off the floor, etc. I like it better on half power too but I can't tell any difference in volume once I account for the change in EQ. 
I suppose that if you've been running in triode mode for a long time and at volume that it's possible that part of the tube is weaker than the whole. Someone well versed on tube theory might be able to address that but it seems possible. -Rod-


----------



## Swede

USAPatriot said:


> You shouldn't have that issue, Swede. I don't know the math but it's only a 1 or 2 db difference with the volume up. If you really can't be heard at rehearsal then you'll need to EQ around it or get the amp off the floor, etc. I like it better on half power too but I can't tell any difference in volume once I account for the change in EQ.
> I suppose that if you've been running in triode mode for a long time and at volume that it's possible that part of the tube is weaker than the whole. Someone well versed on tube theory might be able to address that but it seems possible. -Rod-



I just like the sound better in half mode, slightly more compressed, better OD i think


----------



## Micky

And that is exactly the difference. In triode mode, you are shorting parts of the tube together so that it acts like a different tube.

Not only do you get less clean headroom, i.e. quicker breakup, you force the finals to act in a manner they were not designed to operate in.

So let me ask - do you get a noticeable volume increase with an extra cab plugged in? Is this enough volume or do you still need more? Maybe a 100H might fit the bill...


----------



## USAPatriot

Swede said:


> I just like the sound better in half mode, slightly more compressed, better OD i think



I agree. I do more rhythm than riffing and the half power just suits my tastes, not so shrill, more mid and low end punch without being muddy, but I still use the down-switch on my Les Paul and dial back the treble to about 6. I use an MXR-108 which make it better but also makes it easier to totally screw up my tone. Gotta be careful with the tweaks! -Rod-


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> And that is exactly the difference. In triode mode, you are shorting parts of the tube together so that it acts like a different tube.
> 
> Not only do you get less clean headroom, i.e. quicker breakup, you force the finals to act in a manner they were not designed to operate in.
> 
> So let me ask - do you get a noticeable volume increase with an extra cab plugged in? Is this enough volume or do you still need more? Maybe a 100H might fit the bill...



So Micky, was I more or less correct? Running in triode mode constantly will or may shorten the tube life (Or weaken it permanently)? It's not an issue for me, just want it straight in my head. -Rod-


----------



## Micky

No it probably will not affect tube lifespan either way.

Plates are still running normally.


----------



## Dmann

Only had my 100H for a week but in 1/2 power mode it's kinda like it just puts a blanket over the speaker and did not like it at all. Full power gives full clarity.

You might be able to get the same 1/2 power tone in full power mode by using a boost in front.


----------



## Swede

Micky said:


> And that is exactly the difference. In triode mode, you are shorting parts of the tube together so that it acts like a different tube.
> 
> Not only do you get less clean headroom, i.e. quicker breakup, you force the finals to act in a manner they were not designed to operate in.
> 
> So let me ask - do you get a noticeable volume increase with an extra cab plugged in? Is this enough volume or do you still need more? Maybe a 100H might fit the bill...



I think partially the issue might be, I use mostly lead 1 channel, but keep gain only on about 2...OFA for the main dirt...........Clearly I can raise the gain on the lead1 channel (which adds volume) but that screws up my tone.

Gonna see if I can figure something out tomorrow at rehearsal.

last rehearsal I used the 40 watt mode and no issues, just slightly more fond of the 20 watt sound.

gonna snap a pic once dialed in how i keep it at practice


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> No it probably will not affect tube lifespan either way.
> 
> Plates are still running normally.



Hmmm. K. -Rod-


----------



## Dmann

Not sure if this made an appearance already in the thread, but it's a fantastic demo.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGDheLVngPk[/ame]

Fender into DSL40c @ 33:36


----------



## minerman

Dmann said:


> Only had my 100H for a week but in 1/2 power mode it's kinda like it just puts a blanket over the speaker and did not like it at all. Full power gives full clarity.
> 
> You might be able to get the same 1/2 power tone in full power mode by using a boost in front.



I've had my DSL100 since July & the sound/feel is different in 1/2 power mode, but I personally don't feel it's got the "blanket over the speaker" thing myself, it just feels (and sounds) like a different amp....I don't use the 1/2 power thing very much myself though, I like the headroom the full 100 watts has....

I like OD1 the best out of all the modes, gain on about 4-5, volume depending on what time it is (can't have the cops at the new pad just yet, as log as it's before 9 pm, fluck the new neighbors....), treble around 2-3, mids 4-5, bass 6-7, presence 6-7, & resonance pretty low, around 2 or so, is a great sound to me....

Green crunch is good too, but I find the low end a little flubby with the same eq settings as above, but I tighten it up a little with a SD-1 as a clean boost, & while it's similar to OD1, it's still not _exactly_ the same...

For the $$$, I think it's a great amp, if I ever were to gig again, I'd take my amp with no hesitation or worries at all....I'm sure the 40w version is just as good....

Oh yeah, my amp is totally stock too, same tubes in it now that were in it when I bought it, but I did take it out of it's headshell a couple nights ago just to check the bias (again, I checked it a couple/few months ago, & it's right where it was then) & just give it a visual go-over after Dmann's "poof" a few days ago (sorry that happened dude, but at least you got a new amp without having to wait) ....


----------



## 60Cycle

I had mine plugged into my 1960 for like an hour. Had never bothered to until today, all I can say is wow.


----------



## ken361

I like the 40 watt mode balls and all!


----------



## 60Cycle

Well its been stock for a while now, so Im about to start to tinker with it. Im going easy today, going to run a GT12-75 and a Marshall Vintage 12 and see if either are an improvement over the stock speaker.

I don't hold hope or high expectations of either making a huge change. I mean combo amps aren't life changing experiences once you've spent any time with closed extension cabs.


----------



## Swede

Here are my settings from band rehearsal last night. 20 watt mode






Les Paul and OFA

Mostly use Lead 1


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Should be loud as hell, is it up off the floor where you guys can hear it? I prefer the 40 w because of that extra chunk and punch I get. Still, that should rip up a drum kit, room dependent.


----------



## Swede

It was loud.....We always play pretty loud. I like the creamyness of the 20 watt mode.

Here is a pic from yesterday....Thats sitting on top of a cabinet not in use. Didnt bring my additional 1X12 cab yesterday.


----------



## ken361

Swede said:


> Here are my settings from band rehearsal last night. 20 watt mode
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Les Paul and OFA
> 
> Mostly use Lead 1



Try gain at gain at 7, treb at noon mids at 10 o clock bass at 2 o clock pres at 10 o clock and resonance at 7 lead 1. I tried the pres up and trb all off it didnt sound good at low volume, you need that treble for that Marshall tone IMO


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

I was at a jam a while back and couldn't figure out why I wasn't cutting through the mix. I never had a problem with it before so I kept cranking up the volume, but I still was having trouble hearing myself. When I got home I was hooking everything back up and found that I was in half power mode. I must have hit the switch when I was setting up. I definitely prefer full power in a band situation. Mind you once I have the eq settings that I like I tend not to mess with them so if I had I might have solved the issue of not cutting through. I personally like the bite of the 40 watt setting even at home but I'm going to spend a little time finding the 20 watt sweet spot.


----------



## felipe

.


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

Swede said:


> It was loud.....We always play pretty loud. I like the creamyness of the 20 watt mode.
> 
> Here is a pic from yesterday....Thats sitting on top of a cabinet not in use. Didnt bring my additional 1X12 cab yesterday.



Do you normally have a problem with the second cab hooked up? I was thinking about getting a 1x12 or 2x12 someday.


----------



## GuitarMechanic

Changed the speaker today to an ancient G12M70 (80s-early90s I'm guessing and WELL broken in) and WOW big ol difference I am going to play with it like this for awhile before I go unsoldering any caps


----------



## Dmann

GuitarMechanic said:


> Changed the speaker today to an ancient G12M70 (80s-early90s I'm guessing and WELL broken in) and WOW big ol difference I am going to play with it like this for awhile before I go unsoldering any caps



In my short experience with the DSL40c, changing the speaker made a huge difference, but what I liked is that the amp still exhibited the same gain and tone structure.

That famous Marshall crunch and roar.


----------



## Swede

Greatwhitenorth said:


> Do you normally have a problem with the second cab hooked up? I was thinking about getting a 1x12 or 2x12 someday.



No problem at all....only sounds fuller and better, just too lazy to bring it last night


----------



## Swede

ken361 said:


> Try gain at gain at 7, treb at noon mids at 10 o clock bass at 2 o clock pres at 10 o clock and resonance at 7 lead 1. I tried the pres up and trb all off it didnt sound good at low volume, you need that treble for that Marshall tone IMO



Im pretty happy with my settings, but I'll check it out. I much prefer presence over treble at high volumes, which is what these settings are for


----------



## ken361

Played loud today I went to the clean channel later,flipped on the single coils on the les Paul with the guitar's boost on. It sounded glorious! Gain at 7 and the volume. It was pretty dam loud,boost is nice


----------



## GuitarMechanic

Ha well so I said I wasn't going to do any more but since we are pretty much snowed in I had the overwhelming urge to tinker so I unsoldered the C-19..... Yep that made the difference right there. It's perfect now and the clean channel is still sparkly enough, I can run one side into the DSL and the other into my 71 Bandmaster if I need more "Fenderyness"


----------



## 60Cycle

GuitarMechanic said:


> Changed the speaker today to an ancient G12M70 (80s-early90s I'm guessing and WELL broken in) and WOW big ol difference I am going to play with it like this for awhile before I go unsoldering any caps



I put a made in England G12T70 in mine today, made it a whole lot better amp. Didn't even bother with the Marshall Vintage. Sealed her back up, no wonder though so many people are unhappy with the 70/80. Its the first time I looked at it, Im surprised by the lack of Celestion-ness to it. Weighs next to nothing, not much magnet-wise and just kind of an air of cheapyness to it.

Mine was well broken in by now but just lacked life. The only thing is now, when you dime the volume on 40w mode, Red 2 becomes worthless with the gain at 2 or more. Back down to Green 1 and 2 and Red 1 and it just sings but Red 2 has that high pitched flat feedback. It might have been there with the 70/80 I don't recall ever going balls out on Red 2 with it.


----------



## Micky

A better speaker brings this amp to life!


----------



## GuitarMechanic

Thanks for all the help Micky
My amp was good out of the box but now it's fantastic


----------



## Rahlstin

I just got in from playing another show with this amp and each time it just seems better. Amazing tone. I might get another one just for a spare.


----------



## seattleman1969

guitarman3001 said:


> Haven't had much time on the amp. Just going by initial impressions. I understand that C4 will affect both clean and crunch modes on Channel 1 which is what I think I'd like to do. I haven't decided yet exactly what I'm going to do but right now I'm exploring options so I know what's possible and what isn't.
> 
> What I do know is that I did notice what many others have noticed, which is that the EQ is not consistent between the two channels and is something I'll probably have to address before the amp works for me as a two-channel gigging amp, which is what I'm buying it for. I just think that for me, a better solution would be to make CH1 brighter rather than CH2 darker and I'm trying to figure out how I might accomplish that.



Where did you get your schematic? I've been searching high and low for it.


----------



## Pasloade74

Over the weekend our band jammed with a new guitar player. I had my Dsl40 with stock speaker and he had an Orange Rocker 30 combo with Vintage 30. I gotta say the DSL sounded better than that Orange. I was surprised judging by how much those things cost. Made me proud I was rocking the DSL.


----------



## John 14:6

How is the bias set on the DSL40C's right from the factory and what is a good bias setting or range for these amps? I am thinking about getting one. They are kind of cute......

I sure wish Marshall had put in bias test points so I could set the bias myself if it is set bone cold from Marshall. I will end up spending another $225.00 on a Compu-Bias just to keep from having to take it to a tech to change tubes.


----------



## Micky

Page 1 dude...


----------



## Knopfler

GuitarMechanic said:


> Changed the speaker today to an ancient G12M70 (80s-early90s I'm guessing and WELL broken in) and WOW big ol difference I am going to play with it like this for awhile before I go unsoldering any caps



This link can be interesting

http://*****************.com/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=13503


----------



## Knopfler

Sorry. 

http://*****************.com/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=13503


----------



## Knopfler

Einnn? what happen?

* = Marshall roadhouse

http://*****************.com/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=13503


----------



## Micky

Knopfler said:


> Einnn? what happen?
> 
> * = Marshall roadhouse
> 
> http://*****************.com/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=13503



Yup. Some people think that is a bad or forbidden word...

But that is an old thread. It does go to show there are lots of options for the 40c, while some love the Seventy/80, many have opted to replace the speaker with something that 'flavors' the tone differently.


----------



## John 14:6

Micky said:


> Page 1 dude...


 I see that you set the bias at 38ma Micky, but where was it set from the factory?


----------



## Micky

One was 36, the other was almost 37.

Bias is easy on the new DSL's. There are only a few spots where there are lethal voltages present, and there are only millivolts on the bias points.

I have had the bias at 40, as well as 35, and I like lower better. More clean headroom, especially at 20W. I would love to try some 6550's in the amp, just waiting for Rod to get off his ass and either put them in and see, or ship them to me and I will do it...


----------



## solarburn

John 14:6 said:


> I see that you set the bias at 38ma Micky, but where was it set from the factory?



Mine were at 36mv John from the factory and I liked it there having gone higher and lower. Good solid bias not to cool and not hot at a PV of 450v.


----------



## ken361

I put this planet waves speaker cable in I had sitting around, its a little bit better sounding then the cheap thin stock one. Notes are clearer and less muffled like when I was playing Immigrant song from Led Zeppelin

D'Addario Planet Waves 1/4" Male-to-Spade Lug Premium Speaker Cable | Musician's Friend


----------



## markm

Where do you guys find your presense and resonance knobs set at?
I ask cause I keep moving mine all the time 
Thanks


----------



## ken361

markm said:


> Where do you guys find your presense and resonance knobs set at?
> I ask cause I keep moving mine all the time
> Thanks



pres at 3 resonance at 7, yours is on the ground so you will have less bass then mine. Really depends were i set up the amp at.


----------



## dougb256

Micky said:


> So, we took the time to document all of this, to boldly go where no man has gone before.
> 
> To reverse engineer many aspects of this amp and assemble our findings here.
> 
> I would imagine next you would want us to unsolder the components for you?


I know where he's coming from tho. One of the things I plan on doing this Spring is going thru this thread, grabbing the important bits about mods and saving them to a pdf. I did that with the Zoom B3 pedal and it is very nice to have all of that info condensed down to 25 pages.


----------



## bman

I discovered the same vibe dropping a mid 80's Celestion in mine. It was like...hello, no mods needed.


----------



## Micky

dougb256 said:


> I know where he's coming from tho. One of the things I plan on doing this Spring is going thru this thread, grabbing the important bits about mods and saving them to a pdf. I did that with the Zoom B3 pedal and it is very nice to have all of that info condensed down to 25 pages.



It is too bad we couldn't have a Sticky where each mod is permalinked to this thread to make it much easier to find...


----------



## 60Cycle

Micky said:


> It is too bad we couldn't have a Sticky where each mod is permalinked to this thread to make it much easier to find...



We need a poll on the best preamp tubes. I'm lost but I ordered a Mullard for V1 to start.


----------



## AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing

hey folks. for those who advocate a speaker change, I dont mess with stuff like this at all do forgive my ignorance--can you hear the differences in different speakers at lower volumes (2-3) or does that stuff only really become apparent when the amp is really cranked? thanks.


----------



## Micky

AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing said:


> hey folks. for those who advocate a speaker change, I dont mess with stuff like this at all do forgive my ignorance--can you hear the differences in different speakers at lower volumes (2-3) or does that stuff only really become apparent when the amp is really cranked? thanks.



Even at lower volumes the difference can sometimes be very pronounced.


----------



## Knopfler

Swede said:


> Here are my settings from band rehearsal last night. 20 watt mode
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Les Paul and OFA
> 
> Mostly use Lead 1


 
Yesterday I tried the settings you
great tone green cannel with Fulltone Fulldrive OD


----------



## Knopfler

Hi!

2 very interesting and fantastic inks

They are in Spanish

http://media.djmania.es/guias/celestion.pdf

http://www.amptek.es/pdf/articles/Altavoces.PDF


----------



## Knopfler

I have decided to change the speaker:

- Celestion Vintage 30 or G12M 65

What do you think??


----------



## Dizzyg12

Knopfler said:


> I have decided to change the speaker:
> 
> - Celestion Vintage 30 or G12M 65
> 
> What do you think??




I've got a vintage 30 in mine. Love it!


----------



## Dizzyg12

Ok so I was able to take the hum I was getting. turned out to be a bad patch cable after all. I went through every single cable in my pedalboard and found the culprit. I still have some of the hiss you'd expect on high gain and moderate volume but Switching out the cord dropped the idle decibel output by like 15dbs. It's not dead quiet but it's much much better! Clean channel is quiet as a mouse. Can't leven tell the amp is on.


----------



## ken361

Dude on another thread, DSL review said he didnt like the 40c but DSL H is a great sounding head, said they cant possibly be the same amps! haha dufas.


----------



## Micky

ken361 said:


> Dude on another thread, DSL review said he didnt like the 40c but DSL H is a great sounding head, said they cant possibly be the same amps! haha dufas.



It is very dependent on the speaker connected.

Also, tone is very subjective.

Some people don't like broccoli, others do...


----------



## ken361

Speaker yeah, dumb remark though


----------



## rjohns1

I did some mods to my old JCM2000 era DSL about 6 years ago, and I would like to mod my new DSL 40c the same. But the parts numbering is different. Here is what I did to the original:

Okay guys, I got to play with the amp today. Came out great. I recorded dry soundclips and will provide links at the bottom of this post.
Here is what I ended up doing to the clean channel:
C2 - 10nF 
R2 - 15K
R3 - 22K 
I also put a a 470k resistor in place of the jumper next to R2. The combination of all of the above put the gain of the crunch channel right where I wanted it to be. 

And here is what I have done to the red channel. Alot of guys were happy with changing out the 470pf cap that bypasses the gain knob. I felt it lost too much upper harmonic content. What really needed to happen, was the resistor/cap combination leading into this section needed changed. It left in too much bass, and had way too much gain. So I tried a bunch of stuff. Here is what I changed:
C10 - 1n 
C11 - 2n2
What this did, was lower gain, and decrease fizzy, almost fuzzy aspects of the red channel with the gain turned up. And, it tames the brightness of the bypass cap across the gain pot, because you have to turn the gain up more, and by doing so, you lessen the effect that cap has on boosting treble, but you don't change the frequency. And finally, I noticed after reading a post at the other marshall amp forum, a guy fiddled with the circuit to get lead 2 to sound more like lead 1. He ended up putting in a 100k resistor, connecting the ends of resistors r21, and 22 closest to the pots. If you notice on the schematic, the lead mode switch takes out the 150k resistor that goes across the gain knob when you put it into lead 2 mode. Now, lead 2 just sounds like you kicked up a notch in terms of gain amount. The tone stays very similar. My next mod is to get that circuit board that allows you to make the switch footswitchable, and then this channel will be really useful.


----------



## rjohns1

I used to run this DSl with the gain almost all the way on lead 1, and it was perfect. Similar to a 2204 gain wise.


----------



## 60Cycle

Can we get a refresher on what preamp tube does what again. I've used google in here and scrolled for a couple hours. I'm either blind and dumb or at least one of each.


----------



## ken361

Thanks for your request. V1, closest to the input jack, is the input tube and works with Ultra channel. V2 and V3 work with both channels. V4 is the inverter. V1-V3 kind of really work on all channels. The DSL40Cs are made of MDF.


----------



## 60Cycle

ken361 said:


> Thanks for your request. V1, closest to the input jack, is the input tube and works with Ultra channel. V2 and V3 work with both channels. V4 is the inverter. V1-V3 kind of really work on all channels. The DSL40Cs are made of MDF.



Thank you very much. I was suggested two tubes to swap for V1 and V3 and they didn't make too much sense by my way of thinking. But now they sorta do.


----------



## MarshallDog

rjohns1 said:


> I did some mods to my old JCM2000 era DSL about 6 years ago, and I would like to mod my new DSL 40c the same. But the parts numbering is different. Here is what I did to the original:
> 
> Okay guys, I got to play with the amp today. Came out great. I recorded dry soundclips and will provide links at the bottom of this post.
> Here is what I ended up doing to the clean channel:
> C2 - 10nF
> R2 - 15K
> R3 - 22K
> I also put a a 470k resistor in place of the jumper next to R2. The combination of all of the above put the gain of the crunch channel right where I wanted it to be.
> 
> And here is what I have done to the red channel. Alot of guys were happy with changing out the 470pf cap that bypasses the gain knob. I felt it lost too much upper harmonic content. What really needed to happen, was the resistor/cap combination leading into this section needed changed. It left in too much bass, and had way too much gain. So I tried a bunch of stuff. Here is what I changed:
> C10 - 1n
> C11 - 2n2
> What this did, was lower gain, and decrease fizzy, almost fuzzy aspects of the red channel with the gain turned up. And, it tames the brightness of the bypass cap across the gain pot, because you have to turn the gain up more, and by doing so, you lessen the effect that cap has on boosting treble, but you don't change the frequency. And finally, I noticed after reading a post at the other marshall amp forum, a guy fiddled with the circuit to get lead 2 to sound more like lead 1. He ended up putting in a 100k resistor, connecting the ends of resistors r21, and 22 closest to the pots. If you notice on the schematic, the lead mode switch takes out the 150k resistor that goes across the gain knob when you put it into lead 2 mode. Now, lead 2 just sounds like you kicked up a notch in terms of gain amount. The tone stays very similar. My next mod is to get that circuit board that allows you to make the switch footswitchable, and then this channel will be really useful.



So to make the Ultra 1 channel sound like the Crunch channel all you did was change C10 & C11 and you left C19 installed? How close does it sound to The Crunch channel in your opinion?

When you say take a 100k resistor and connect the ends of r21 and r22, did you simply jumper it across the ends and solder it in place or did you lift the ends from the PCB?

Thanks...


----------



## Diaos

New to the forum. New to tube amps. I tried the c19 mod and it worked out perfect. I was hoping the stock amp would go from clean to crunch on the 1st channel and crunch to lead on the second. Stock sucked the bass out of the 2nd channel at low gain, making it sound like out of phase pickups. When I did the mod I grounded pin 1 of the tube socket to discharge the caps. Then I tried to desolder the cap so I could add a switch. The cap broke in the middle of the process so I just cut it out. After, I was surprised at the tone. Now the amp works well on low channel 2 gain settings. I can make the crunch and the lead sound the same if I wanted. Say I wanted a clean to crunch on the foot switch, or for heavier stuff, a crunch to lead. Works nice.


----------



## MarshallDog

Diaos said:


> New to the forum. New to tube amps. I tried the c19 mod and it worked out perfect. I was hoping the stock amp would go from clean to crunch on the 1st channel and crunch to lead on the second. Stock sucked the bass out of the 2nd channel at low gain, making it sound like out of phase pickups. When I did the mod I grounded pin 1 of the tube socket to discharge the caps. Then I tried to desolder the cap so I could add a switch. The cap broke in the middle of the process so I just cut it out. After, I was surprised at the tone. Now the amp works well on low channel 2 gain settings. I can make the crunch and the lead sound the same if I wanted. Say I wanted a clean to crunch on the foot switch, or for heavier stuff, a crunch to lead. Works nice.



Welcome and please introduce yourself under the new member section when you get a chance.

I agree with you, after taking out c19, you can make ultra 1 sound almost identical to the crunch channel if you set the gain lower which allows you to use the other channel as clean


----------



## rjohns1

Marshall Dog, Those values are from the old DSL circuit. The part numbers do not match the new model. I am in the process of trying to figure out what they are on the new board. DO NOT Swap out those parts in the new DSL40c! JCMJMP and Joey Voltage helped me out with all of the mods on the DSL100 I had at the time. I will work to get those mods together for the new DSL when I can get things figured out.


----------



## rjohns1

I personally like to put a 100pF cap in place of c19 so far. Without c19 I feel like the red channel gets dull and lifeless. But 470pf is too much! Very Shrill.


----------



## MarshallDog

rjohns1 said:


> Marshall Dog, Those values are from the old DSL circuit. The part numbers do not match the new model. I am in the process of trying to figure out what they are on the new board. DO NOT Swap out those parts in the new DSL40c! JCMJMP and Joey Voltage helped me out with all of the mods on the DSL100 I had at the time. I will work to get those mods together for the new DSL when I can get things figured out.



Good deal, let me know...


----------



## MarshallDog

Anyone try JJ KT77 tubes is their DSL40C? If so, what's the verdict? I tried them in a Jubilee 2558 2X12 combo and love them. I sure someone has tried them but I didn't feel like going through hundereds of pages to try to spot it.


----------



## stock_hippie

I just bought a DSL 40c.....no I didn't.


----------



## 60Cycle

If you guys get a chance run this thing through a 4-12 cab. I changed V1 to a Mullard tube and V3 to a long plate JJ but this thing sings through a 1960a loaded with Marshall Vintage 12's.

No fizz no shrill ice pick. The speaker change made a difference too but no where near what I'm hearing out of it now.


----------



## Rahlstin

Ive got a 1960A loaded with G12M's ill try that out in a couple weeks at the local jam and see how it sounds.


----------



## PtTimeRckr

Have had a DSL40C for a little over a week. Am going to play it awhile before doing any mods or swaps. I am loving it! Granted, I'm a noob electric player and apart from my old PA system for acoustic gigging around, this is my first guitar amp.

Would post pics, as soon as I can figure out how. 

Great info here!


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

Welcome PartTime. Congrats on the 40C.


----------



## solarburn

PtTimeRckr said:


> Have had a DSL40C for a little over a week. Am going to play it awhile before doing any mods or swaps. I am loving it! Granted, I'm a noob electric player and apart from my old PA system for acoustic gigging around, this is my first guitar amp.
> 
> Would post pics, as soon as I can figure out how.
> 
> Great info here!




Enjoy the new Marshall. It's a good one.


----------



## rjohns1

I've begun to gather my sources and will dismantling my DSL40C soon to do some circuit tracing. I will be translating the Joey mods as well as my previous mods to the DSL. I'll probably start another thread when I get this done. Please be patient. It might be a couple of weeks.


----------



## PtTimeRckr

rjohns1 said:


> I've begun to gather my sources and will dismantling my DSL40C soon to do some circuit tracing. I will be translating the Joey mods as well as my previous mods to the DSL. I'll probably start another thread when I get this done. Please be patient. It might be a couple of weeks.



Thanks for taking on the effort. New thread - and potential sticky - sounds like just the ticket. That will be SUPER valuable info for the growing DSL40C club!


----------



## 60Cycle

ken361 said:


> Dude on another thread, DSL review said he didnt like the 40c but DSL H is a great sounding head, said they cant possibly be the same amps! haha dufas.




The DSL40C is 10x's better run through a 4-12 cab loaded with good speakers. I can understand why he might feel that way.


----------



## ken361

60Cycle said:


> The DSL40C is 10x's better run through a 4-12 cab loaded with good speakers. I can understand why he might feel that way.



I bet it would be nice!


----------



## minerman

While I've never played through the 40w version, I've got the 100w head, & it's great through my 4x12.......That said, I bet the 40w would be incredible through a 4x12, as you could get the volume up a little more than my 100w, opening the amp up, without blowing the windows out of the house...My 100w is a good sounding amp, but it is LOUD.....

I'm waiting on the guy to sort the mods to make the modes footswitchable (if possible) to essentially turn it into a 4-channel amp...


----------



## Swede

Same name but sounding nothing like each other.....@ last rehearsal.


----------



## ken361

My amp loves the ĞE 12ax7 WA in the v1 v2 RFT,v4 Baldwin Sylvania


----------



## rjohns1

Well fellas, I played inside the amp today, and I am happy to say that I found what I think is the secret sauce mod to this amp. To me, the amp stock, was nasty sounding in lead 1. Too much highs going into the first gain stage, then they were taken out after that gain stage. Clipping c19 to me killed the high harmonic content and sustain. You had to crank the gain to get any sustain out of the amp. I hated it.
I like a more classic Marshall tone. Less Gain. Think Kiss, VH, AC/DC. Tracing the circuit, I found that on the second gain stage (only used for the ultra channel), Marshall put two 470pf caps that go from signal path to ground after that stage. They are c15, and c22. These remove the classic Marshall snarl from the older amps, and I think they were put in because with the higher gain of this circuit, and c19, they were too much. I snipped them out of my amp. Earlier, I replaced c19 with a 100pf cap. I like it and it is staying.
My guitar is pretty dark, I have an Ernie Ball AXIS, with a ToneZone in the bridge. I found that it still needed something. On the input jack board, Marshall put a 100pf cap across the input jack. It is c90. I removed it.
So to sum up the mods, I removed these caps:
c19
c15
c22
c90
and I put the 100pf cap i pulled from c90 in place of c19

My Eq settings are as follows:
Treble: 3
Mids: 10
Bass: 10
Pres: 2
Resonance: 7

Speaker is Celestion Greenback, G12M 75z. Mids 90's era.

With the gain on 2-3 on lead 1, I can nail Whole Lotta Rosie. With the gain at about Half, I am close to Van Halen 2's Somebody get me a doctor. 

I think I am just going to leave the amp here for a while. I don't think I need to perform the joey mods, or go back to my old DSL mods. This amp's circuit is different enough, and those mods put the old amp close to this one tone wise. I am going to try to get some clips together this afternoon. Sadly, I have none stock, so I can only show the amp now.


----------



## Rahlstin

Its cool to see how many variation of tone this amp will allow. Im a c19 man and Im happy. All though.... I did order a G12M-65 creamback to try out in it.....


----------



## rjohns1

[SC]https://soundcloud.com/rjohns-1/dsl40c-acdc-demo[/SC]AC/DC riff demo of the mod.


----------



## rjohns1

[SC]https://soundcloud.com/rjohns-1/vh-demo-of-dsl40c-mod[/SC]

Vh clip of the mod.


----------



## rjohns1

Recording path on the clips: Amp--Audix i5 mic-- Focusrite ISAone preamp-- Motu 828k2 interface-- Apple Logic ProX. No editing, no effects, clips are exactly what was recorded.


----------



## USAPatriot

Have I said that I love my DSL40C lately?

I just did an A/B on the 40C and my Jet City JCA22H. Now, I like the Jet City. On it's own, in a vacuum, it's a good amp and does what I need it to do. But today I decided to A/B them. 
First I ran the Jet City through it's Eminence cab. Then I ran the 40C through the Eminence cab. Next, I ran the Jet City through the 40C's V-30 and then finally put the 40C back together. I used my same pedals and settings with both amps and both speaker setups.
And the DSL40C blew the Jet City out of the water. It wasn't even a close contest. It seems like the Marshall handled the pedals far better. The reverb had much more body and the EQ was so much better. I've been playing the Jet City exclusively for about a month, so the speaker should be broken in. Bass and mids in the Marshall are so much better than the Jet City, but admit that the treble is still more than I prefer in the Marshall. The Marshall "growls" in a way that suits my tastes easier and better, in fact, I had to back off the guitar volume just a bit as the wife is out of the house and I was able to get some decent volume out of both amps, dialing back the attenuator too.

Yes...I LOVE MY DSL40C! -Rod-


----------



## USAPatriot

rjohns1 said:


> [SC]https://soundcloud.com/rjohns-1/vh-demo-of-dsl40c-mod[/SC]
> 
> Vh clip of the mod.



Nice little gallop in there. You should do more. What guitar? -Rod-


----------



## rjohns1

The guitar is a 2003 EBMM AXIS, with Peavey Wolfgang pickups. I have another EBMM Axis with a stock neck pickup, and a tone zone with half air mod in the bridge. Wish I still had the original bridge pickup, but this gets me close.


----------



## USAPatriot

Wow, Musicman. Respectable for half the cost of a Les Paul. WTG. -Rod-


----------



## ken361

Something I recorded with my new Strat, neck pup lead 1 red stock speaker. Recorded at bedroom levels,sounds good loud also with stock MIM pups. But I think they work well. Excuse the sloppy playing
https://soundcloud.com/ken-aiello/blues-jam-1


----------



## 02classic

I'm thinking of getting a 1960 cab to run with my dsl40c. Can anyone tell me how it sits or have a picture of one sitting on top of the cab? Any help would be great. 
Thanks


----------



## wolfpack

rjohns1 said:


> Well fellas, I played inside the amp today, and I am happy to say that I found what I think is the secret sauce mod to this amp. To me, the amp stock, was nasty sounding in lead 1. Too much highs going into the first gain stage, then they were taken out after that gain stage. Clipping c19 to me killed the high harmonic content and sustain. You had to crank the gain to get any sustain out of the amp. I hated it.
> I like a more classic Marshall tone. Less Gain. Think Kiss, VH, AC/DC. Tracing the circuit, I found that on the second gain stage (only used for the ultra channel), Marshall put two 470pf caps that go from signal path to ground after that stage. They are c15, and c22. These remove the classic Marshall snarl from the older amps, and I think they were put in because with the higher gain of this circuit, and c19, they were too much. I snipped them out of my amp. Earlier, I replaced c19 with a 100pf cap. I like it and it is staying.
> My guitar is pretty dark, I have an Ernie Ball AXIS, with a ToneZone in the bridge. I found that it still needed something. On the input jack board, Marshall put a 100pf cap across the input jack. It is c90. I removed it.
> So to sum up the mods, I removed these caps:
> c19
> c15
> c22
> c90
> and I put the 100pf cap i pulled from c90 in place of c19
> 
> My Eq settings are as follows:
> Treble: 3
> Mids: 10
> Bass: 10
> Pres: 2
> Resonance: 7
> 
> Speaker is Celestion Greenback, G12M 75z. Mids 90's era.
> 
> With the gain on 2-3 on lead 1, I can nail Whole Lotta Rosie. With the gain at about Half, I am close to Van Halen 2's Somebody get me a doctor.
> 
> I think I am just going to leave the amp here for a while. I don't think I need to perform the joey mods, or go back to my old DSL mods. This amp's circuit is different enough, and those mods put the old amp close to this one tone wise. I am going to try to get some clips together this afternoon. Sadly, I have none stock, so I can only show the amp now.



Hmmm
3 caps removed completely, but not changed to different value ?
So how do these changes affect OD2 ?
Also, you are only using a 25 watt greenback ?


----------



## rjohns1

Yes, removed them completely. They just go from signal to ground, and judging by their value, just shunt some of the highs to ground. And yes, 25 watt greenback in the combo only.


----------



## atrox

02classic said:


> I'm thinking of getting a 1960 cab to run with my dsl40c. Can anyone tell me how it sits or have a picture of one sitting on top of the cab? Any help would be great.
> Thanks


----------



## ken361

atrox said:


>



any sound samples?


----------



## 02classic

Thanks for the pics Atrox


----------



## 60Cycle

ken361 said:


> any sound samples?



You don't want to hear it, youll be forced to buy a 1960 and refuse to run the combo speaker ever again.

I was really happy with the tube changes and the G12T-75, I think in fact that's the perfect speaker for it. But I was running mine plugged into my 900 1960A loaded with Marshall Vintage, went back to the combo speaker and was just bummed with the sound. Just got done playing, guess what? Its left plugged in to the cab.

Honestly Id just trade it in towards a DSL100H but as soon as I did Id bet my wife would change her mind and want the cab back in storage.


----------



## ken361

I use to have that cab with the G12's and then greenbacks. Your ears adapt to that one sound then you play a combo its like what?? lol I have mine sounding pretty good even with the stock speaker,having good preamp tubes helps a lot over the stock. Money is tight not working so have to make due I did see a G12t75 on craigs for 50. Combos nice I just take it to my girls on the weekend and crank it!


----------



## atrox

60Cycle said:


> You don't want to hear it, youll be forced to buy a 1960 and refuse to run the combo speaker ever again.
> 
> I was really happy with the tube changes and the G12T-75, I think in fact that's the perfect speaker for it. But I was running mine plugged into my 900 1960A loaded with Marshall Vintage, went back to the combo speaker and was just bummed with the sound. Just got done playing, guess what? Its left plugged in to the cab.
> 
> Honestly Id just trade it in towards a DSL100H but as soon as I did Id bet my wife would change her mind and want the cab back in storage.



Actually, those two 1960 cabs are running original G12-65's. The DSL hooked up to the cabs makes it sound bigger for obvious reasons, but i don't run it that way. The two cabs are for the 2203. 

The DSL40c (at least with the Creamback), is a pretty big sounding amp. Doesn't have the honky mid's of most combos.


----------



## solarburn

rjohns1 said:


> Yes, removed them completely. They just go from signal to ground, and judging by their value, just shunt some of the highs to ground. And yes, 25 watt greenback in the combo only.



You plan on running half power then? I actually like the mode. I can stay in the power section where I like the mix of preamp/power tubes. Better dynamics...fatter notes.


----------



## Skylarkpilot

Ok so I had an issue today.....
I haven't played the amp for a couple of weeks as I've been experimenting with another vintage amp...anyhow, I plugged in the Les Paul and switched to Lead 1 which is where I headbang.
I was getting quite a lot of feedback and it just didn't sound right, volume and gain on four so should have been fine.
So I checked my bias, that was the first shock, plate voltage had gone up from what it was before (440V) to 450V and the bias had jumped from where I had set it (35) to 42. So I re-biased but the amp still sounded the same. 
So far I tried,
Changing power tubes and re-Biasing them, changing all the pre-amp tubes, swapping instrument leads and taking out the effects pedals. No difference.
Green channel still sounds fine.
Any ideas....?


----------



## ken361

RFT's
Brand new, MINT NOS Late 1960s RFT ECC83 12AX7 VEB Röhrenwerke Anna Seghers Neuhaus Prod Tubes with Halo Getter. Made in E. Germany. These are in the top 2-3 desirable tubes for Guitar tone, and also work fine in Audio gear.


----------



## riefil

Has anybody tried Ruby 12ax7 in their DSL40C? I tried to go back through this thread but it's just too much to digest. If so, what is\was your impressions? 

I think I only have 3 kicking around, so what positions do you recommend first?

Thanks,

Phil


----------



## Rahlstin

Im trying a G12M-65 tonight for practice and then a snmall show Sat. I also orderd a DSL100H ,,,,,,,,


----------



## minerman

Rahlstin said:


> Im trying a G12M-65 tonight for practice and then a snmall show Sat. I also orderd a DSL100H ,,,,,,,,


That's my favorite speaker with my DSL100H dude....FWIW, I have a 4x12 with 4 different speakers in it, for close-mic'd recording...The Greenback was my favorite for a long time, but the 65 has slowly but surely pushed it to second place, I absolutely love how that amp/speaker combination sounds...Congrats on the head!!!


----------



## nopicknick

rjohns1 said:


> Well fellas, I played inside the amp today, and I am happy to say that I found what I think is the secret sauce mod to this amp. To me, the amp stock, was nasty sounding in lead 1. Too much highs going into the first gain stage, then they were taken out after that gain stage. Clipping c19 to me killed the high harmonic content and sustain. You had to crank the gain to get any sustain out of the amp. I hated it.
> I like a more classic Marshall tone. Less Gain. Think Kiss, VH, AC/DC. Tracing the circuit, I found that on the second gain stage (only used for the ultra channel), Marshall put two 470pf caps that go from signal path to ground after that stage. They are c15, and c22. These remove the classic Marshall snarl from the older amps, and I think they were put in because with the higher gain of this circuit, and c19, they were too much. I snipped them out of my amp. Earlier, I replaced c19 with a 100pf cap. I like it and it is staying.
> My guitar is pretty dark, I have an Ernie Ball AXIS, with a ToneZone in the bridge. I found that it still needed something. On the input jack board, Marshall put a 100pf cap across the input jack. It is c90. I removed it.
> So to sum up the mods, I removed these caps:
> c19
> c15
> c22
> c90
> and I put the 100pf cap i pulled from c90 in place of c19
> 
> My Eq settings are as follows:
> Treble: 3
> Mids: 10
> Bass: 10
> Pres: 2
> Resonance: 7
> 
> Speaker is Celestion Greenback, G12M 75z. Mids 90's era.
> 
> With the gain on 2-3 on lead 1, I can nail Whole Lotta Rosie. With the gain at about Half, I am close to Van Halen 2's Somebody get me a doctor.
> 
> I think I am just going to leave the amp here for a while. I don't think I need to perform the joey mods, or go back to my old DSL mods. This amp's circuit is different enough, and those mods put the old amp close to this one tone wise. I am going to try to get some clips together this afternoon. Sadly, I have none stock, so I can only show the amp now.



I did the c19 mod and now find the amp way too muddy. I was hoping it would slightly reduce the top end harshness a tad, but I prefer it stock. Question.....if I remove the c90 and put it where the c19 is, would that be something to consider? Not doing anything else.....just removing c90 to c19. What I am looking for is a little less sizzle on the top end. Everything else is just fine. I probably should have done a speaker swap to begin with, but hey, couldn't resist the urge to tweak!


----------



## 60Cycle

riefil said:


> Has anybody tried Ruby 12ax7 in their DSL40C? I tried to go back through this thread but it's just too much to digest. If so, what is\was your impressions?
> 
> I think I only have 3 kicking around, so what positions do you recommend first?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Phil



I cant speak of the Rubys, but messing around with Mullards, Tung Sol and JJ Long Plates V1 and V3 make the biggest changes to mine.

Everything was an improvement or change for me except the Tung Sols. The stock JJ's are really noisy at idle so almost everything I tried either eliminated the noise or reduced it so Im kind of biased against stock.

I do spend the extra 5 bucks getting them balanced or whatever its called. I don't know if it makes a difference or not, Im kind a new to this tube rolling thing. Im used to being the guy that had three amps and when I figured it came time to get a checkup or repair I left it somewhere in better hands.


----------



## Micky

C90 is actually a critical part of the circuit. It is a 100pf cap from the input to ground, and what this does is prevent a lot of stray 'noise' from entering into the preamp circuit. Things external to the amp such as EMI from fluorescent lights, RF from nearby radio stations, and all sorts of other things can get into the amp via the antenna connected to your guitar.

Sure you can remove it, but it does little to alter the high end tone and is best to leave it there.

For C19, I lowered mine to 180pf (from 470pf) and in combination with the Eminence Man-O-War speaker I have installed put it in the perfect spot as far as taming the fizz on Ultra II.


----------



## minerman

Micky said:


> C90 is actually a critical part of the circuit. It is a 100pf cap from the input to ground, and what this does is prevent a lot of stray 'noise' from entering into the preamp circuit. Things external to the amp such as EMI from fluorescent lights, RF from nearby radio stations, and all sorts of other things can get into the amp via the antenna connected to your guitar.
> 
> Sure you can remove it, but it does little to alter the high end tone and is best to leave it there.
> 
> For C19, I lowered mine to 180pf (from 470pf) and in combination with the Eminence Man-O-War speaker I have installed put it in the perfect spot as far as taming the fizz on Ultra II.



Good info (as usual) Micky, I'm on the fence about doing the mods mentioned earlier, I know I could put the amp back to stock if I didn't like 'em, just not really sure if I wanna do that to the amp or not...FWIW, I like the amp stock, but like anything, it could be improved, again, just not sure about snipping those caps to find out...


----------



## Micky

Baby steps. Try something, evaluate it. Then make a decision.
If you go slow, and yes, you can afford to do this, you can be logical about the process.
If you like the change, keep it and move on.

For me, it is a pain in the ass to keep pulling the chassis.
I get lazy, and tend to play more than I experiment, but every change I do is carefully thought out long before I get the ambition to implement it. This stuff is soooooo subjective, and sometimes the changes are soooooo subtle that it makes it hard at times, but in the end it is all very much worth the wait...

OH! and nice avatar Miner...


----------



## rjohns1

nopicknick said:


> I did the c19 mod and now find the amp way too muddy. I was hoping it would slightly reduce the top end harshness a tad, but I prefer it stock. Question.....if I remove the c90 and put it where the c19 is, would that be something to consider? Not doing anything else.....just removing c90 to c19. What I am looking for is a little less sizzle on the top end. Everything else is just fine. I probably should have done a speaker swap to begin with, but hey, couldn't resist the urge to tweak!



Yes, that would probably do it for you. The other two 470pf caps would be phase two to get some more high harmonics. Try the 100pf in c19 first.


----------



## rjohns1

On thing to consider is that all guitars are different. The type of pickups, how much they are wound, resistance of the volume and tone pots of the guitar play a huge role. On mine, the 100pf across the input was night an day. I started by removing the the whole board the input jack is on, and hooked up my guitar with test leads to the jack on the main board. It basically made the input and first stage closer to a classic marshall, on the older amps, like the 2203, the guitar goes straight through a 68k resistor to the input of the tube. I found that removing the cap for me was the best for my setup, and put the board back in. If it gets noisy, then by all means use the 100pf cap in the c90 spot.


----------



## Richie Appleseed

Simply, I just purchased a Marshall DSL 40' connected it with a Monster cable Prolink to my new LP Studio. Turned the power on, lights on, played with the volume. NOTHING! Is there something I'm missing?


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Check to make sure the speaker lead is connected from speaker to jack and also the spade connectors are attached to speaker. You may have a loose power tube in the socket. Make sure both volumes are up some and does it do this on both channels??


----------



## minerman

Micky said:


> Baby steps. Try something, evaluate it. Then make a decision.
> If you go slow, and yes, you can afford to do this, you can be logical about the process.
> If you like the change, keep it and move on.


Right Micky, I like the way the amp is stock, but like I've mentioned, IMHO, it could be better...There's no problem with me snipping a cap or two, or soldering 'em back really, I'm just trying to make sure what each thing I might do to the amp really does beforehand...



Micky said:


> For me, it is a pain in the ass to keep pulling the chassis.


Yes it is...


Micky said:


> I get lazy, and tend to play more than I experiment, but every change I do is carefully thought out long before I get the ambition to implement it. This stuff is soooooo subjective, and sometimes the changes are soooooo subtle that it makes it hard at times, but in the end it is all very much worth the wait...


+1,000,000....really subjective man, I went through the tube rolling phase awhile back, but the changes in the tone were so minute that it really didn't make enough difference _to me_ to do it...Granted, this was with the 1w DSL head, & my Egnater Tweaker, but still...Now I'm not saying different tubes won't make a difference in the tone at all, but in the little 1w DSL, I tried some tubes I got from River Rat & Marty, & while it did make a little difference, it really wasn't enough of a difference _in that amp_ to fool with it...BTW, I don't have a great selection of tubes anyway, just a few extras...

My DSL100H is bone stock right now btw...The only thing I've ever done to it is check the bias...Myself, I'd rather be playing too...




Micky said:


> OH! and nice avatar Miner...


Thanks man!!! That's my lowly studio Lester I got for Christmas before last, I know some folks don't like the studios, but I honestly like mine a lot, it plays & sounds great to me, & that's all that really matters, right???



rjohns1 said:


> On thing to consider is that all guitars are different. The type of pickups, how much they are wound, resistance of the volume and tone pots of the guitar play a huge role.


+1,000,000 to this too man...Everybody's opinion/taste/preferences are different, what might sound good to me, could sound like utter shit to you...

I'm about to dive into some pizza, but I may just pull the chassis on the DSL100 & try a couple things, hell, I might even try some different tubes in it, that may be all it'd need _for me_....


----------



## Micky

Richie Appleseed said:


> Simply, I just purchased a Marshall DSL 40' connected it with a Monster cable Prolink to my new LP Studio. Turned the power on, lights on, played with the volume. NOTHING! Is there something I'm missing?



Check to see if the volume & gain is up a bit on the channel you are using.
Flip the channel switch to see if the problem is only on one channel.
Try a different guitar.

I have to admit, one time after modding the amp, I turned it on, and was cranking it up and no volume. Checked all over, and then I realized I was on the wrong channel and had the volume and gain down...


----------



## ken361

I did some rolling today,changed the RFT to Jan GE v2 and JJ 803 v3 it made a warmer difference! And highly recommend a thicker speaker cable!! for more thicker sound and a smoother top end! Stock sounds more cheaper sounding.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Thicker spkr cable should not affect 40 watts, especially the tone. In the combo or are you running out to an external cab? You can run 1200 watts on 14 gauge wire.


----------



## ken361

No ext cab, the Planet Waves is prb 14 gauge Plus 14 karet gold tip connectors help,believe me I'm a believer in good cables


----------



## ken361

Isolated too, I was playing loud at 4 master lead one


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Are you talking guitar cable or speaker? You mention connectors in plural sense but internal speaker needs 1 plug only. I use good cables too but you won't hear a difference with gold plugs unless it's placebo effect. I've run a gazillion miles of speaker cables for years. You will lose some power and the plugs can heat up if you run high power on too long a draw, PA wise. Speaker wires are not isolated they have no shield just 2 braided wires. Instrument cable, different story!


----------



## rjohns1

I see this kind of stuff all the time about cables. What makes the included cable inferior?It is good quality copper. Reads virtually nothing resistance wise. Like was said, can transmit up to 1200 watts of power. Is it because the insulation looks cheap? The only thing that it does is keep the wires from touching each other, impacts the sound none whatsoever. Yes, cables for low signal, especially guitar level, do make a difference. The lower the capacitance the brighter the guitar will sound, so it is vital that the best cables be used up front, but high level speaker cables don't make one bit of measurable difference, especially in this instance. In a 50,000 watt PA Yes, it needs to be heavy, and be tough for the constant handling from touring. Not living in a guitar cab, hardly ever touched.


----------



## Micky

ken361 said:


> No ext cab, the Planet Waves is prb 14 gauge Plus 14 karet gold tip connectors help,believe me I'm a believer in good cables



Me too, but the cable is a foot long.
Anything over 22 gauge is fine.
You won't perceive any difference...


----------



## ken361

Speaker cable,I understand what your saying but there is some difference


----------



## rjohns1

HA, Jethro and I posted the same time.


----------



## rjohns1

The difference is psychological. Electrically, there is no difference.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

ken361 said:


> Speaker cable,I understand what your saying but there is some difference



Are you saying you hear a difference with the internal speaker wired with a 14 g SPEAKER wire with the spade speaker attachments and a gold plug running a foot and a half from output jack to jnternal?? It has nothing to do with being isolated either. I'm just trying to understand what you are saying!


----------



## ken361

Sorry man trying to explain, the internal against the aftermarket cable


----------



## Jethro Rocker

So you changed out your short internal cable that runs from jack to internal speaker to a PW with a gold plug.... and you hear a difference. ? That will be a placebo effect, as pointed out above, there is virtually zero resistance, it's all the same given that circumstance. When you mention the stock cable being "cheaper sounding" (whatever that means) that will be because it looks so cheap and thin! Don't sweat the cable!!
Tubes, I haven't tried one of my RFT in V1 yet, I have a Mullard there and can't remember the other ones. Good tubes!!


----------



## ken361

Jethro Rocker said:


> So you changed out your short internal cable that runs from jack to internal speaker to a PW with a gold plug.... and you hear a difference. ? That will be a placebo effect, as pointed out above, there is virtually zero resistance, it's all the same given that circumstance. When you mention the stock cable being "cheaper sounding" (whatever that means) that will be because it looks so cheap and thin! Don't sweat the cable!!
> Tubes, I haven't tried one of my RFT in V1 yet, I have a Mullard there and can't remember the other ones. Good tubes!!



Yeah the internal cable,there's probably a 10% or alight more


----------



## bman

minerman said:


> Right Micky, I like the way the amp is stock, but like I've mentioned, IMHO, it could be better...There's no problem with me snipping a cap or two, or soldering 'em back really, I'm just trying to make sure what each thing I might do to the amp really does beforehand...
> 
> 
> Yes it is...
> 
> +1,000,000....really subjective man, I went through the tube rolling phase awhile back, but the changes in the tone were so minute that it really didn't make enough difference _to me_ to do it...Granted, this was with the 1w DSL head, & my Egnater Tweaker, but still...Now I'm not saying different tubes won't make a difference in the tone at all, but in the little 1w DSL, I tried some tubes I got from River Rat & Marty, & while it did make a little difference, it really wasn't enough of a difference _in that amp_ to fool with it...BTW, I don't have a great selection of tubes anyway, just a few extras...
> 
> My DSL100H is bone stock right now btw...The only thing I've ever done to it is check the bias...Myself, I'd rather be playing too...
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks man!!! That's my lowly studio Lester I got for Christmas before last, I know some folks don't like the studios, but I honestly like mine a lot, it plays & sounds great to me, & that's all that really matters, right???
> 
> 
> +1,000,000 to this too man...Everybody's opinion/taste/preferences are different, what might sound good to me, could sound like utter shit to you...
> 
> I'm about to dive into some pizza, but I may just pull the chassis on the DSL100 & try a couple things, hell, I might even try some different tubes in it, that may be all it'd need _for me_....



Not much in the caps w/ this amp. Big, big part has to do w/ swapping the speaker for a premium one which stock is not. Don't go drastic before going basic. Remember Carl, " I't ain't got no gas in it"".


----------



## Richie Appleseed

Jethro, Check, check and check. I will have another one delivered Tuesday. Thanks for the info


----------



## Dmann

On the whole speaker cable thing, here is some Wiki, just cause it's easier than typing it all out;



> Speaker wire is used to make the electrical connection between loudspeakers and audio amplifiers. Modern speaker wire consists of two or more electrical conductors individually insulated by plastic (such as PVC, PE or Teflon) or, less commonly, rubber. The two wires are electrically identical, but are marked to identify the correct audio signal polarity. Most commonly, speaker wire comes in the form of zip cord.
> 
> The effect of speaker wire upon the signal it carries has been a much-debated topic in the audiophile and high fidelity worlds. *The accuracy of many advertising claims on these points has been disputed by expert engineers who emphasize that simple electrical resistance is by far the most important characteristic of speaker wire.*
> 
> An accepted guideline is that the wire impedance should not exceed 5% of the entire circuit. For a given material, resistance is a function of length and thickness (specifically of the ratio of length to cross-sectional area). For this reason, lower impedance speakers require lower resistance speaker wire. Longer cable runs need to be even thicker. Once the 5% guideline is met, thicker wire will not provide any improvement.



Why do you think Marshall gives you a $2 OEM speaker cable when you buy a $3000 amp? Do you really think they are just cutting corners to save a couple dollars? The truth is, they are Electrical Engineers and know the truth, and are instead not wasting money on snakeoil.


----------



## minerman

bman said:


> Not much in the caps w/ this amp. Big, big part has to do w/ swapping the speaker for a premium one which stock is not. Don't go drastic before going basic. Remember Carl, " I't ain't got no gas in it"".



Thanks man, I appreciate the help with the speaker, but that's not my issue with the amp...I don't have the 40w combo, I have the 100w head & a 4x12 cabinet....speakers aren't my issue with this amp....thanks again!!!


----------



## Rahlstin

G12M-65 Creamback works great. Amp tone is rock on. A way sweeter sound than the 70/82. It required a bit of different eq tinkering. A bit more treble, pres and mids. where before the amp at 3 was ripper loud, now I have to turn it up to about 3.5 to get the same volume. I take this is because the Creamback is a bit less sensitive than the 70/80 if I read the specs correctly. Its a keeper for sure.


----------



## nopicknick

Put the C19 back in. Next step is a speaker, but I am in no hurry. Probably go with a WGS of some sort.......invader or et65. I never use a pick so the shrillness people speak of isn't as prominent for me. I just want to cut a tad off the top end.


----------



## ken361

Preamp tubes help a lot if you use the right ones,my lead 1 is thick but dynamic with gain at 7 I like.


----------



## minerman

Ok guys, pulled the chassis & took the plunge today....I did some tube rolling first to see if I could tame the high end a little, & to be honest, I put all the stock tubes back, except for V1, which I put/left a Mullard there I got from Marty a pretty good while back...There was slight difference in the high end with the Mullard in V1, but honestly, not a lot (which I knew it'd probably wouldn't anyway)...

Snipped C15 first, then tried the amp, & I honestly didn't hear much (if any) difference..So, I snipped a leg on C22, & that did seem to change the high end, but just ever so slightly, which is about what I expected...

I'd thought about snipping C19, but from what I've read, you'll either like it, or hate it, & I don't have another cap (lower value like some of you guys have mentioned), so I left it stock...I may experiment with some lower values for C19, but just to be honest, the small amount the tube/caps snipped did for me, I think I'll just leave it as-is for now, do some playing/recording, & compare my clips...I always have the settings saved in my daw's project (guitar, amp settings, pedals (if any are used), speaker, mic, etc), so it's pretty easy for me to go back & find a tone (or pretty damn close anyway) that I'd had before....

So, my DSL100H is no longer stock, which is ok, I didn't buy it for looks, I bought it to use, & the small little mods I did today seemed to have gotten me on the path I wanted...

Thanks for the help/input guys, & if there are any more suggestions, please do post 'em!!!!


----------



## Jethro Rocker

If you cut 1 leg of C19, it's easy go put back and it does tame the high on OD channel but leaves green channel the same. Substantial IMO...


----------



## Skylarkpilot

So, today I took the whole thing apart. Pcb out of the chassis, the works. Cleaned everything, checked both sides of the board for bad or broken joints, cleaned everything, even re-seated the reverb chip.
Still cannot get above 'four' on the volume and gain on 'Lead one' without inducing horrible amounts of feedback.
It sort of sounds as if an overdrive pedal is left on in the effects loop even though I've tried taking the loop out.
It's got me stumped and I'm not sure what could cause this. The Clean and Crunch still sound perfectly good so it must be something in the gain side of things. 
Rolled tubes and re-biased and still no difference. I even tried a different speaker just out of desperation.
If there are no suggestions I shall have to try putting it back to standard, although this problem has only just occurred and I haven't modded anything on this for several months.
Any suggestions at all...........?


----------



## frankyfal

The green channel is still great. Put a pedal in front of it and play.


----------



## Micky

Skylarkpilot said:


> So, today I took the whole thing apart. Pcb out of the chassis, the works. Cleaned everything, checked both sides of the board for bad or broken joints, cleaned everything, even re-seated the reverb chip.
> Still cannot get above 'four' on the volume and gain on 'Lead one' without inducing horrible amounts of feedback.
> It sort of sounds as if an overdrive pedal is left on in the effects loop even though I've tried taking the loop out.
> It's got me stumped and I'm not sure what could cause this. The Clean and Crunch still sound perfectly good so it must be something in the gain side of things.
> Rolled tubes and re-biased and still no difference. I even tried a different speaker just out of desperation.
> If there are no suggestions I shall have to try putting it back to standard, although this problem has only just occurred and I haven't modded anything on this for several months.
> Any suggestions at all...........?


Gotta be a tube then...


----------



## MarshallDog

Skylarkpilot said:


> So, today I took the whole thing apart. Pcb out of the chassis, the works. Cleaned everything, checked both sides of the board for bad or broken joints, cleaned everything, even re-seated the reverb chip.
> Still cannot get above 'four' on the volume and gain on 'Lead one' without inducing horrible amounts of feedback.
> It sort of sounds as if an overdrive pedal is left on in the effects loop even though I've tried taking the loop out.
> It's got me stumped and I'm not sure what could cause this. The Clean and Crunch still sound perfectly good so it must be something in the gain side of things.
> Rolled tubes and re-biased and still no difference. I even tried a different speaker just out of desperation.
> If there are no suggestions I shall have to try putting it back to standard, although this problem has only just occurred and I haven't modded anything on this for several months.
> Any suggestions at all...........?



I would try a complete set of new pre-amp tubes. Why, I recently had my 2558 Jubilee 2X12 do what sounds to be the same thing. It was the V1 tube and made the feedback type howl on both channels at low volume settings. If that doesn't work, off to a Tech, Good luck


----------



## Skylarkpilot

I was just thinking.....back a couple of months ago I inadvertently left the 2x12 8 Ohm speaker cab plugged into the 4 Ohm tap of the DSL. I was banging away for a little while with the volume and gain up until there was a kind of squealing noise.
I realised what I'd done and shut it all down and plugged it in properly. I thought I'd got away with it. 
I'm wondering now if I've maybe damaged the OT. Anyone know if it's possible to have normal Cleans and messed up Leads from doing that ?


----------



## MarshallDog

Skylarkpilot said:


> I was just thinking.....back a couple of months ago I inadvertently left the 2x12 8 Ohm speaker cab plugged into the 4 Ohm tap of the DSL. I was banging away for a little while with the volume and gain up until there was a kind of squealing noise.
> I realised what I'd done and shut it all down and plugged it in properly. I thought I'd got away with it.
> I'm wondering now if I've maybe damaged the OT. Anyone know if it's possible to have normal Cleans and messed up Leads from doing that ?



You shouldn't have caused any damage with the amp at 4 and the cab at 8 ohms. Going the other way you probably would have.


----------



## MarshallDog

Seeing as I like the JJ KT77's in my 2558 Jubilee, I am thinking about trying them in my DSL 40C. I know a few of you MFer's have tried them, any thoughts and/or feedback on using them in the DSL 40C?


----------



## Swede

MarshallDog said:


> Seeing as I like the JJ KT77's in my 2558 Jubilee, I am thinking about trying them in my DSL 40C. I know a few of you MFer's have tried them, any thoughts and/or feedback on using them in the DSL 40C?



Are you favoring your DSL over all the vintage sick Marshalls you have? Or are those all dialed in a long time ago


----------



## rlowe

New to the forum ( not guitar playing 70's-early 80's back playing again). Recently purchased the dsl 40c and dig those Marshall tones. Crunch and od1-od2 sound good for rhythm, leads depending on what type of music you play. I was looking for a good pedal that would increase (strengthen) my gain on leads for a heavy, yet retain that Marshall character and clarity. Will be trying new pedals soon, but open to suggestions!


----------



## MarshallDog

Swede said:


> Are you favoring your DSL over all the vintage sick Marshalls you have? Or are those all dialed in a long time ago



My JMPs are all dialed in and stock. They just sound so great as is, just want to try to get the DSL 40C to sound a tad better not that it sounds bad now. I play them all switching around but the DSL is reall convienent seeing as it does have a clean channel and its easy to lug around compared to tge 4x12 and head.


----------



## Micky

rlowe said:


> New to the forum ( not guitar playing 70's-early 80's back playing again). Recently purchased the dsl 40c and dig those Marshall tones. Crunch and od1-od2 sound good for rhythm, leads depending on what type of music you play. I was looking for a good pedal that would increase (strengthen) my gain on leads for a heavy, yet retain that Marshall character and clarity. Will be trying new pedals soon, but open to suggestions!



Many users will use a clean boost on both channels to get them tone almost like an additional channel. I am certain that some other users will chime in here to let you know what they use.

OH! Many new members post an introductory post in the Member Introductions section to let us all know a little about themselves.


----------



## atrox

rlowe said:


> New to the forum ( not guitar playing 70's-early 80's back playing again). Recently purchased the dsl 40c and dig those Marshall tones. Crunch and od1-od2 sound good for rhythm, leads depending on what type of music you play. I was looking for a good pedal that would increase (strengthen) my gain on leads for a heavy, yet retain that Marshall character and clarity. Will be trying new pedals soon, but open to suggestions!



My favorite boost for my Marshall's is the Green Rhino. It works well for boosting the Green Crunch channel. Essentially it's a modded Tube screamer with a mid sweep and the ability to add back some low end that a normal Tube Screamer tends to remove.


----------



## Len

rlowe said:


> New to the forum ( not guitar playing 70's-early 80's back playing again). Recently purchased the dsl 40c and dig those Marshall tones. Crunch and od1-od2 sound good for rhythm, leads depending on what type of music you play. I was looking for a good pedal that would increase (strengthen) my gain on leads for a heavy, yet retain that Marshall character and clarity. Will be trying new pedals soon, but open to suggestions!



I use a Timmy clone for a little increase in gain, and then an MXR Modified OD for get a really full heavy distortion out of the OD1 channel.


----------



## wolfpack

rlowe said:


> New to the forum ( not guitar playing 70's-early 80's back playing again). Recently purchased the dsl 40c and dig those Marshall tones. Crunch and od1-od2 sound good for rhythm, leads depending on what type of music you play. I was looking for a good pedal that would increase (strengthen) my gain on leads for a heavy, yet retain that Marshall character and clarity. Will be trying new pedals soon, but open to suggestions!



Xotic BB


----------



## solarburn

Rook OD, Bad Monkey


----------



## thebowl

I have been rolling some tubes recently, also. I plugged in an old NOS RCA in V1 and an NOS Sylvania 5751 in V2 the other day. I took both of them out after a couple of days. I couldn't get sounds I liked out of either green channel, which is where I play.

I am very happy with the new JJ tubes. I use their ECC83S in V1, and their 5751 in V2, and I get exactly what I want from the green side.


----------



## minerman

Ok, it's been a few days since I snipped the 2 caps out of my DSL100H, & I've had a little more time to evaluate the sound....

It did have a subtle effect on the high end, but nothing drastic, which is about what I expected, & to be honest, it's _almost_ what I wanted, I would like to tame the highs just a _tad_ more, but not a lot...I'm really on the fence about snipping C19 because I've read both ways on this mod, some like it, some don't, so I suppose the only way I'll know it to try it....may get around to doing that this weekend, & of course, if I don't like it, I can re-solder the leg of the cap...

On the boost to push my DSL, only thing I have that can really be used as a clean boost is my SD-1...Does a good job on tightening it up, but I do lose quite a bit of low end...This can be added back with the bass/resonance knobs though...

I do have a Bogner Ecstasy Red pedal too, but in my experience it doesn't work really well as a clean boost, it's more amp-like _to me_...


----------



## Micky

So much of this has to do with the pickups in the guitar... I have tried to find the middle ground as far as mods are concerned. I think I am finally at a spot where I can comfortably play ALL my guitars thru this amp and reliably get the tone I want.

The C19 mod ONLY affects the Ultra II mode, and I really don't find myself there a lot. I can get the gain and tone I need in general from Ultra I, although I sometimes do experiment a bit. Especially when I need to cut thru the mix. Ultra II excels at that.

Even my Ovation acoustic (built-in preamp) sounds good with the right EQ.

I have been wanting to try a Boss OD-1x as a boost, just to see what it can do. No real need for it though.


----------



## minerman

Yes, I know the C19 mod only affects the red channel, I'm actually pretty happy with the green channel, other than it being a little bassy/boomy, which can be dialed out with the eq knobs....I can dial out the high end on the red channel like that, but I'm trying to get the amp to have a more balanced sound between the red & green channels...

I would go ahead & try the mod tonight, but I really don't feel like pulling the chassis....Yep, I'm lazy....

Never tried the Boss pedal you mentioned, I've got an SD-1, a JOYO Hot Plexi, & the Bogner Red...I hate the JOYO pedal, to me, it just sucks, & I hope the real version (Carl Martin) of that pedal doesn't sound like that, because I'd never buy one....The Bogner Red is a cool pedal that I like a lot, it's pretty amp-like to me, & _kinda_ gives me another channel on the DSL....But, it's expensive too. I paid full price for mine last summer...


----------



## ken361

Actually the lead 2, I had it sounding pretty decent with the gain at 5 or slight less, good metal riffing. Bass at 5 also, it is thicker then lead 1 with a tad more gain. V3 someone said its the EQ I did like the JJ803 there for more warmth. This amp like old stock tubes a lot so if your not changing caps around like me it works pretty well. Suhr makes good pedals, the KOKO boost works great I hear for a boost.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

minerman said:


> On the boost to push my DSL, only thing I have that can really be used as a clean boost is my SD-1...Does a good job on tightening it up, but I do lose quite a bit of low end...This can be added back with the bass/resonance knobs though...
> 
> I do have a Bogner Ecstasy Red pedal too, but in my experience it doesn't work really well as a clean boost, it's more amp-like _to me_...


That's partly why I like the Bad Monkey, the 2 way EQ means you can add bass or treble there and not change amp settings. Sounds real good with it too!!


----------



## MarshallDog

I never really tried boosting clean channels but I have found it can be a bit tricky to make it sound right. Thought it was just me, but it seems it is a common thing based on these post. Is it true that a pedal that boosts a dirty channel may not be a great choice for boosting a clean channel?


----------



## mickeydg5

minerman said:


> Ok guys, pulled the chassis
> 
> Snipped C15 first, then tried the amp, & I honestly didn't hear much (if any) difference. So, I snipped a leg on C22, & that did seem to change the high end, but just ever so slightly, which is about what I expected...
> 
> So, my DSL100H is no longer stock, which is ok
> 
> Thanks for the help/input guys, & if there are any more suggestions, please do post 'em!!!!



C15 and C22, are those two 470pF capacitors going to ground?


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

Count me in as another big fan of the Bad Monkey. Killer little OD that's super cheap. I've liked it with other amps but it sounds the best with my DSL.


----------



## MarshallDog

thebowl said:


> I have been rolling some tubes recently, also. I plugged in an old NOS RCA in V1 and an NOS Sylvania 5751 in V2 the other day. I took both of them out after a couple of days. I couldn't get sounds I liked out of either green channel, which is where I play.
> 
> I am very happy with the new JJ tubes. I use their ECC83S in V1, and their 5751 in V2, and I get exactly what I want from the green side.



I've been trying the 12ATY in V2 and I like it, takes some of the gain away from channel 2 and allows me to turn the gain up a bit more with lets say more headroom.


----------



## Micky

MarshallDog said:


> I've been trying the 12ATY in V2 and I like it, takes some of the gain away from channel 2 and allows me to turn the gain up a bit more with lets say more headroom.



12AT7 you must mean... And yes, I use an AT7 in my DSL5c, it has only 2 modes/channels so it is a bit more difficult to tame the gain.

With the DSL40c, the seperate gain and volume controls on each channel allow one to adjust the gain to taste much more easily. I have never needed 'more clean headroom' that an AT7 might provide on the Classic channel, I just set my gain where I need it to be and adjust the volume up to where it is comfortable. If I need more like for a lead, I set the volume even higher, leaving the gain alone and use the guitar volume to boost when I need it.

Anyway that is what usually works for me, keeping it simple. But a 12AT7 is V2 is a great way to tame the gain... How does it work on the Ultra channel?


----------



## Skylarkpilot

Hi guys, thanks for the help up to now.
I have a question for someone who understands circuit diagrams....
I was running the test meter across the amp today looking for anything strange.

What I found is that there is a line of blue resistors labelled Brown, Black, Yellow, Gold running up the middle of the board. They all have voltage in and voltage out until you get to R64 which has voltage in but nothing out ? After that R67 R68 R86 and R90 have no voltage reading on either side.
Another couple of large'ish components D10 and D11 also show no voltage either side.

My question is therefore, could R64 have failed, and if so could that cause the problems I am seeing with the Lead channel ?

Sooner or later I will have to give up. But I live in the middle of nowhere (Sweden) and there are no amp techs anywhere nearby.

Any ideas gratefully received on this one. I guess I could just change R64 and see what happens, but as I don't understand the circuit I can't really tell if something upstream or downstream of this component may be causing what I am seeing.


----------



## Micky

Lift one leg of the resistor to test it. If you already have the board out now is the time to do this...


----------



## rjohns1

Micky, c19 affects both modes of the ultra channel. It is a bright cap across the gain pot.


----------



## frankyfal

rjohns1 said:


> Micky, c19 affects both modes of the ultra channel. It is a bright cap across the gain pot.



That is true. I clipped mine and it affected both red channels and my warranty. It is not a cure all for the red channels inherent gain tone though. It just takes away some of the trebly edge making both channels similar tone wise allowing you to share the EQ more evenly. 

I can't afford, nor do i want to pay for an Infinity so I bought a Nissan mindset. Same company, but you get what you pay for. Both cars take you from point A to point B. One just does it in a smoother, nicer way, but at a much larger cost. 

For $699 with the Sweetwater Creamback upgrade this is still a great 1 (green) channel Marshall amp for EZ gigging.IMO


----------



## Skylarkpilot

Thanks Micky.
Just tried that advice and it appears normal
I just don't get why those components show no activity when the amp's on.
I've even been all the way around it re-making any dodgy looking solder joints. Still cannot set volume and gain anywhere four and over without feedback.
I guess I'd better start looking for a tech'


----------



## Micky

Skylarkpilot said:


> Thanks Micky.
> Just tried that advice and it appears normal
> I just don't get why those components show no activity when the amp's on.
> I've even been all the way around it re-making any dodgy looking solder joints. Still cannot set volume and gain anywhere four and over without feedback.
> I guess I'd better start looking for a tech'



Does it do this with no guitar plugged in?
It may be an oscillation that amps up into feedback...
Check the caps around the tubes, as there are some that are there just to cancel out these types of unwanted signals...

Caps like C43, C46, C55, C60, & C78 & 79.

Also could possibly be the PI tube...


----------



## mickeydg5

Skylarkpilot

Its hard to follow what you are doing and I do not know all of the modifications you may have done but you are reading plenty of components that ride the ground rail. There may or may not be voltages there and there definitely should be none at the ground rail if that is your common reference.


----------



## flyfish-mt

Does anybody prefer the FDII Mosfet with their DSL40C over the OCD? I have both, an OCD V4 and FDII MOSFET and I'm kinda' leaning towards the FDII. It seems the FDII is a bit more open and has a sharper bite to it. Whereas the OCD has a really nice low end but seems to lack the edge of the FDII and has scooped mids. As a stand alone overdrive/distortion pedal the OCD is a great sounding pedal but into a slightly broken up Marshall I think may be too much. Anyway, what are your thoughts?? 

Oh, I'm running these pedals into the green channel with both a LP w/ 36's and a SG JR w/ a Fralin P90.


----------



## Natedog_37

Just dropping in to say hello. Fedex just dropped off my new DSL40C. can't wait to try it out.


----------



## ken361

Natedog_37 said:


> Just dropping in to say hello. Fedex just dropped off my new DSL40C. can't wait to try it out.



were in MI bro? south east here


----------



## Lnjryan

Just got mine today!


----------



## Natedog_37

ken361 said:


> were in MI bro? south east here



Monroe. Well bottom I am a min from Toledo Ohio.


----------



## manofsteel2397

Taylor Michigan here


----------



## Skylarkpilot

Hi guys and thanks for the input.

The amp only does this when there is an instrument plugged in. No matter how quiet you make the instrument, even if you put it in the stand, just vibrations off the floor through the instrument will slowly build into feedback.

With the Les Paul plugged in It starts at volume four and gain four.
With the Strat plugged in it starts at five on both settings.
This is perhaps logical considering the difference in pickups and seems to rule out any problem with the instruments.

You could therefore be right Micky when you suggest oscillation building into feedback.
I don't think it's the PI as I've tried changing all the tubes and it made no difference.
I'll check the caps you suggested.

I appreciate the suggestions as I know how hard it can be to understand exactly what somebody means when they're describing a problem.

At least all this is allowing my ears to recover a little.


----------



## mickeydg5

Skylarkpilot said:


> The amp only does this when there is an instrument plugged in. No matter how quiet you make the instrument, even if you put it in the stand, just vibrations off the floor through the instrument will slowly build into feedback.


 Is that with the guitar volume at zero?


----------



## USAPatriot

rjohns1 said:


> Micky, c19 affects both modes of the ultra channel. It is a bright cap across the gain pot.



I don't believe this is correct. My schematic shows a clear separation between C19 and Red1 and Red2. It connects to Red 2. C20 appears to connect to Red1 but don't know of anyone that's clipped it. I've considered it but don't really see the need. It's not like it's got the ice pick-like tone that Red2 does...totally different from Red1. Unless Marshall's made changes to the design, then there's one bright cap for each mode. -Rod-


----------



## mickeydg5

All signal for both LEAD channels pass through VR3 and C19 onto C18.

LEAD 1 has the 150k in parallel with the Gain Control VR3 reducing signal strength.
LEAD 2 removes the 150k increasing signal strength and introduces C20 470pF to remove some higher frequencies.


----------



## Len

USAPatriot said:


> I don't believe this is correct. My schematic shows a clear separation between C19 and Red1 and Red2. It connects to Red 2. C20 appears to connect to Red1 but don't know of anyone that's clipped it. I've considered it but don't really see the need. It's not like it's got the ice pick-like tone that Red2 does...totally different from Red1. Unless Marshall's made changes to the design, then there's one bright cap for each mode. -Rod-



Is that schematic posted online somewhere?


----------



## USAPatriot

Len said:


> Is that schematic posted online somewhere?



Not that I am aware of but it might be. -Rod-


----------



## Pilgrim of the Dark

Just bought my second DSL40C. Clipped one leg of C19 and bent it back so it's not close to or touching anything. I replaced the stock speaker with a Celestion G12M-65 Creamback. The amp was shipped from Indiana to Arizona.

The amp has loud static/white noise going on and gets worse when I increase volume and/or gain on either channel. This happens with AND without a cable plugged in and the sound doesn't change either way (cable or no).

What could this be? Loose tube from shipping?


----------



## ken361

Pilgrim of the Dark said:


> Just bought my second DSL40C. Clipped one leg of C19 and bent it back so it's not close to or touching anything. I replaced the stock speaker with a Celestion G12M-65 Creamback. The amp was shipped from Indiana to Arizona.
> 
> The amp has loud static/white noise going on and gets worse when I increase volume and/or gain on either channel. This happens with AND without a cable plugged in and the sound doesn't change either way (cable or no).
> 
> What could this be? Loose tube from shipping?



I had this last year with a new 68 twin when I was tube Rollin, I sprayed the tube pins with Deoxit 5 and it worked! Maybe there was some corrosion from sittings in Mexico.


----------



## Pilgrim of the Dark

ken361 said:


> I had this last year with a new 68 twin when I was tube Rollin, I sprayed the tube pins with Deoxit 5 and it worked! Maybe there was some corrosion from sittings in Mexico.



Thanks for the suggestion, never would've thought to do that.

I want to check for loose tubes first, but I've never changed or removed a tube. What would I be looking/feeling for? How hard do you push to properly "seat" a tube?


----------



## ken361

Pilgrim of the Dark said:


> Thanks for the suggestion, never would've thought to do that.
> 
> I want to check for loose tubes first, but I've never changed or removed a tube. What would I be looking/feeling for? How hard do you push to properly "seat" a tube?



Push it in gently till it snuggled in,make shure the pins line up.


----------



## Pilgrim of the Dark

ken361 said:


> Push it in gently till it snuggled in,make shure the pins line up.



Would it be better to just push on them a bit to make sure they're snug, or remove each one and re-insert them?


----------



## ken361

Pilgrim of the Dark said:


> Would it be better to just push on them a bit to make sure they're snug, or remove each one and re-insert them?



Remove each one wouldn't hurt


----------



## Pilgrim of the Dark

Ok... Made sure all the tubes were seated; no changes. Very frustrating.

Here's a video of what's going on. It's like this with a guitar hooked up, no guitar, cable, no cable, everything.

http://youtu.be/h6ZbcVLZ14g


----------



## solarburn

your vid is set to private...


----------



## Pilgrim of the Dark

solarburnDSL50 said:


> your vid is set to private...



... Sorry. I just changed the settings to public. Here's the link again just in case:

http://youtu.be/h6ZbcVLZ14g


----------



## mickeydg5

Pilgrim of the Dark said:


> Just bought my second DSL40C. Clipped one leg of C19 and bent it back so it's not close to or touching anything. I replaced the stock speaker with a Celestion G12M-65 Creamback. The amp was shipped from Indiana to Arizona.
> 
> The amp has loud static/white noise going on and gets worse when I increase volume and/or gain on either channel. This happens with AND without a cable plugged in and the sound doesn't change either way (cable or no).
> 
> What could this be? Loose tube from shipping?


Swap tube V1 with a spare tube or V4 if you have to use something.
This may let you know if it is the V1 tube.

If not check and clean connection CON1A/B at the input area.

Hopefully it is something simple like that.


----------



## 60Cycle

Pilgrim of the Dark said:


> ... Sorry. I just changed the settings to public. Here's the link again just in case:
> 
> http://youtu.be/h6ZbcVLZ14g



Mine was bad, but not that bad. A combination of the factory tubes and dirty electric. I know Marshall is supposed to be using JJ's most of the time but they just seem lousy.

I switched all four preamp tubes, noise was gone.


----------



## ken361

My static totally different,as soon as I flipped the standby off there was a loud crackling sound. Yours might be the v1 tube


----------



## Bobby D

g'day folk,
My dsl40c was working just fine, then a week before its first gig it started developing static just in the lead channel, now in both. when i put the volume past 4 all i get is feed back. the hiss occurs with nothing plugged in and the feed back with any guitar when the volume is on... i see a couple other people are experiencing similar problems... tested all the tubes for microphonics and they are quiet. my only mod was a speaker swap. is the tubes swap working? i am still under warranty.. should i demand an amp swap or is it a fixable glitch?


----------



## ken361

Deffently put better preamp tubes,it will warm and smooth it out!


----------



## frankyfal

My DSL 40 started acting up two months after I bought it. Weird after tone in the natural decaying sound. Before that I replaced C19 with the smaller capacitor and when I did so the nut fell off of the chassis. My warranty was voided. In that time I read numerous threads here and tried different Marshalls. I realized that high gain Marshals are not what I need. I sold that amp at $175 loss. If I didn't void the warranty I would've had it repaired and kept it as a one channel amp because the green channel is amazing and with an OD boost in front is all I need for blues, allman brothers style southern and classic rock.


----------



## 60Cycle

Bobby D said:


> g'day folk,
> My dsl40c was working just fine, then a week before its first gig it started developing static just in the lead channel, now in both. when i put the volume past 4 all i get is feed back. the hiss occurs with nothing plugged in and the feed back with any guitar when the volume is on... i see a couple other people are experiencing similar problems... tested all the tubes for microphonics and they are quiet. my only mod was a speaker swap. is the tubes swap working? i am still under warranty.. should i demand an amp swap or is it a fixable glitch?



Mine was almost unbearable plugged into certain outlets in the house. But once I changed the preamp tubes at idle on standby, or off guitar plugged in or not its dead quiet. Like I have said, Ive come to the conclusion they are getting really cheap tubes or something. Because even replacing all four with JJ 8833Cs long plate tubes, Mullards or Tung Sol CP tubes the hiss, crackle and whatever cycle hum has disappeared. Same as throwing away the ones out of my JVM. Hell the V1 and V2 in my AFD only lasted maybe 40 hours of playing tops.


----------



## Pilgrim of the Dark

Thanks for all the replies. Long night last night, so I didn't get to try them yet. About this preamp tube swap; I have no spare tubes lying around, but my Orange Micro Terror has a 12AX7 preamp tube I guess I could use. Do I swap it with each preamp tube to see if the static goes away?


----------



## Pilgrim of the Dark

Success!!!!

Swapped all the preamp tubes individually with the JJ ECC83 from my micro terror and the preamp tube furthest to the right as you're looking at the back of the amp (the preamp tube with the rubber thing on it). I'm guessing that's V1?

Anyway, as soon as I fired it up with that tube replaced, I get normal amp hiss/noise, but that horrible loud static is gone. 

Not sure if FedEx dropped it too many times or what, but these Marshall tubes are weak sauce! The amp sounds a bit better with the JJ in it too, lol!


----------



## Pilgrim of the Dark

Here's the culprit:


----------



## Micky

Yes, that is V1.
You will want a nice quiet tube there.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Good one! Usually the weakest link in the chain should be checked first, ie - tubes!


----------



## 60Cycle

Pilgrim of the Dark said:


> Success!!!!
> 
> Swapped all the preamp tubes individually with the JJ ECC83 from my micro terror and the preamp tube furthest to the right as you're looking at the back of the amp (the preamp tube with the rubber thing on it). I'm guessing that's V1?
> 
> Anyway, as soon as I fired it up with that tube replaced, I get normal amp hiss/noise, but that horrible loud static is gone.
> 
> Not sure if FedEx dropped it too many times or what, but these Marshall tubes are weak sauce! The amp sounds a bit better with the JJ in it too, lol!



I would've threw all four in the trash that came with it but you never know when you might need one to get by.


----------



## Micky

60Cycle said:


> I would've threw all four in the trash that came with it but you never know when you might need one to get by.



The Chinese Marshall-branded chrome plate preamp tubes that come OEM in this amp are actually pretty good, but every once in a while you get a dud. Damage in shipment, lesser QC and a bunch of other factors contribute to premature tube failure.

The chrome plates are kinda bright, and that is one of the first things people want to do when they get this amp, is tame the brightness.

I use my OEM tubes as my spare set.


----------



## Rahlstin

Get a few good spare tubes that you know are good. I keep a full set of Pre's and Pwr's in my gig box just incase.


----------



## 60Cycle

Micky said:


> The Chinese Marshall-branded chrome plate preamp tubes that come OEM in this amp are actually pretty good, but every once in a while you get a dud. Damage in shipment, lesser QC and a bunch of other factors contribute to premature tube failure.
> 
> The chrome plates are kinda bright, and that is one of the first things people want to do when they get this amp, is tame the brightness.
> 
> I use my OEM tubes as my spare set.



Like I said, mine were noisy, liked to crackle and hiss and hum. Every set of CP tubes were so much cleaner and it was the same story with my JVM. The AFD tubes went south quick, but who knows with that thing. Its in the Marshall factory repair center down south.


----------



## Bobby D

update..
yup it worked, bad pre amp tube.


----------



## Bobby D

bye the way.. what pre amp tubes are people using in these puppies to warm em up a bit? i usually grab ehx or tung sols.. any suggestions?


----------



## 60Cycle

Bobby D said:


> bye the way.. what pre amp tubes are people using in these puppies to warm em up a bit? i usually grab ehx or tung sols.. any suggestions?



I liked the Mullards but I put the Tung Sols back in to spend some more time with them in there. Theyre sounding quite snazzy thru the 1960 with Marshall Vintage and G12T-75's.


----------



## Micky

Here is what is in mine:

http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...l-dsl40c-information-thread-6.html#post941017


----------



## ken361

Micky said:


> Here is what is in mine:
> 
> http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...l-dsl40c-information-thread-6.html#post941017



 I have a GE 12ax7 WA in the v1 it works well and the Sylvania v4 in mine also! RFT v2 for now and a old groove tube Penta M Mullard ŖI v3.


----------



## Natedog_37

Well got to play with the amp this weekend. Over all I do like it. Different from my line6 HD150. Don't get the air pressure feeling I am us to with 4x12 cab. One thing I noticed is HOLY HELL you get some ear breading high end. Had to back that way down. will break her in and see how it goes. really looking for is a good EQ for the clean and lead channels I like. Going to take some time. Love the way my bad Monkey, and Chorus sound though it though.

Deff have a ton to learn with V1, V2 tubes etc. also been a solid state person.


----------



## lordquilton

Bobby D said:


> bye the way.. what pre amp tubes are people using in these puppies to warm em up a bit? i usually grab ehx or tung sols.. any suggestions?



I tried both of those in V1, I wouldn't describe either of them as warm.
These are popular, says here there's a new shipment in-
Ruby 12AX7AC7 HG+
By all reports well worth a try.

I tried an old Mullard in V1, it was amazing but I lost the tight muscly bass that I love in the Green channel. So I put it in V2. That plus the TAD EL34B-STR power tube's really make the onboard reverb blossom.

The stock preamp valves are Marshall branded JJ ECC83-S with chrome plating, bright like Micky said. So I went with the same tube but with the dark gray plates. 
Some say they're too dark sounding, but it's a bright kind of amp so it evens out nicely imo. 
I got the gold pin version in V1 because they test in the top 10% at the factory. Warm, clear and with an expressive midrange is what I hear.

Get those Ruby's while they're hot I reckon.


----------



## Micky

The Rubys are a very popular tube. I have a couple, one as a spare and another I think in my DSL5c V1 slot. Very clean, noise-free with a lot of gain on tap.


----------



## Natedog_37

Anyone have a link explaining what V1,V2,V3,V4 etc all mean? Been reading this huge thread but getting lost. Need some tube 101 learning.


----------



## ken361

V1, closest to the input jack, is the input tube and works with Ultra channel. V2 and V3 work with both channels. V4 is the inverter. V1-V3 kind of really work on all channels.


----------



## Micky

ken361 said:


> V1, closest to the input jack, is the input tube and works with Ultra channel. V2 and V3 work with both channels. V4 is the inverter. V1-V3 kind of really work on all channels.



Here I go again... You need to remember each preamp tube is 2 tubes in 1...

For the DSL40c & DSL100h:

V1a is the input buffer, it is used on both the Classic and Ultra channels.
V1b is the first gain stage of the Ultra channel, it is not used in the Classic channel.

V2a & V2b are additional gain stages, fed from V1 and used on both channels.

V3a is the final gain stage, both channels are fed into this tube, which feeds...
V3b which is the tone stack. This is the final preamp tube before the power stage.

V4a & b inputs are bridged together, and this is the Phase Inverter tube. The output from V4a & b each feed one of the final power tubes.

Hope this helps...


----------



## ken361

Im just posting what Marshall sent me


----------



## riefil

Micky said:


> Here I go again... You need to remember each preamp tube is 2 tubes in 1...
> 
> For the DSL40c & DSL100h:
> 
> V1a is the input buffer, it is used on both the Classic and Ultra channels.
> V1b is the first gain stage of the Ultra channel, it is not used in the Classic channel.
> 
> V2a & V2b are additional gain stages, fed from V1 and used on both channels.
> 
> V3a is the final gain stage, both channels are fed into this tube, which feeds...
> V3b which is the tone stack. This is the final preamp tube before the power stage.
> 
> V4a & b inputs are bridged together, and this is the Phase Inverter tube. The output from V4a & b each feed one of the final power tubes.
> 
> Hope this helps...



Micky, would I be correct in assuming the 3 Ruby tube I have would work best in v1, 2 and 3? I also have a 12ax7LPS that I used in my Maz Jr. for the Inverter. Do you think that would work in V4?

Thanks,

Phil


----------



## Micky

riefil said:


> Micky, would I be correct in assuming the 3 Ruby tube I have would work best in v1, 2 and 3? I also have a 12ax7LPS that I used in my Maz Jr. for the Inverter. Do you think that would work in V4?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Phil



Yes. Just remember that the Ruby is a hi-gain tube, that is, it may have more than 100% gain. Note I said 'may'...

The Ultra channel already has more gain than any normal person would ever use. Note I also said 'normal'...

The LPS should be fine in V4.

The whole point is, try them to see where you like them the best.


----------



## riefil

Micky said:


> Yes. Just remember that the Ruby is a hi-gain tube, that is, it may have more than 100% gain. Note I said 'may'...
> 
> The Ultra channel already has more gain than any normal person would ever use. Note I also said 'normal'...
> 
> The LPS should be fine in V4.
> 
> The whole point is, try them to see where you like them the best.



I found that the Rubys in the Maz had more of a smooth gain, even though the was more on tap, if that makes sense. I'm hoping to quiet things down a little bit. Right now with any volume I get quite a bit of noise on both channels, obviously more on Ultra gain.
Hopefully I'll have some down time this coming weekend to swap them out.

Phil


----------



## Natedog_37

Micky thank you that is what I needed.


----------



## Bobby D

thanks for all the info, I came across this great article on Phase Invertor tube choices that really helped me. I hope it helps you all as well

http://www.guitaramplifierblueprinting.com/files/Phaseinverter.pdf


----------



## ken361

LPS is decent in most amps but I found the Sylvania Baldwin even better, there all over ebay pretty cheap. Can use then in diff spots also because there smooth with a nice top end, make sure there tested for microphonics!


----------



## 60Cycle

lordquilton said:


> I tried both of those in V1, I wouldn't describe either of them as warm.
> These are popular, says here there's a new shipment in-
> Ruby 12AX7AC7 HG+
> By all reports well worth a try.
> 
> I tried an old Mullard in V1, it was amazing but I lost the tight muscly bass that I love in the Green channel. So I put it in V2. That plus the TAD EL34B-STR power tube's really make the onboard reverb blossom.
> 
> The stock preamp valves are Marshall branded JJ ECC83-S with chrome plating, bright like Micky said. So I went with the same tube but with the dark gray plates.
> Some say they're too dark sounding, but it's a bright kind of amp so it evens out nicely imo.
> I got the gold pin version in V1 because they test in the top 10% at the factory. Warm, clear and with an expressive midrange is what I hear.
> 
> Get those Ruby's while they're hot I reckon.


 
The Mullard CP warm up the midrange and treble in mine, like plugging it into a 4-12. The Tung Sol seem awesome through the cab, not so much into the open back onboard speaker. 

The best thing you can do if you find the amp to bright and shrill is a speaker change, even after break in that thing that comes in it can cut glass.


----------



## Rahlstin

The DSL100H showed up today just in time for the weekend show. Cant wait.


----------



## USAPatriot

I'm curious: Will a strong magnetic field affect electron flow or tone in preamp tubes? -Rod-


----------



## minerman

No idea Rod, but I'm finally gonna get to try out my gear in a band situation tomorrow evening...Just a jam thing, but it may turn into a gig thing too....I've known these guys all my life, & we've all played in bands together years ago....The singer/guitar player finally convinced me to bring my stuff over tomorrow evening...Gonna take the DSL & 4x12....


----------



## Natedog_37

Just wanted to update on my new 40C. Took it to band practice last night. Played with the EQ and settings and holy hell found right where I like it. You are correct though this little guys loves to he cranked loud...!!! Also seen my line 6 4X12 can is 8 ohm so I might try it though there just for giggles. 

So in love with this little guy now that I have found the sweet spot.


----------



## PtTimeRckr

Natedog_37 said:


> Just wanted to update on my new 40C. Took it to band practice last night. Played with the EQ and settings and holy hell found right where I like it. You are correct though this little guys loves to he cranked loud...!!! Also seen my line 6 4X12 can is 8 ohm so I might try it though there just for giggles.
> 
> So in love with this little guy now that I have found the sweet spot.



Care to share your rig and settings?


----------



## Micky

USAPatriot said:


> I'm curious: Will a strong magnetic field affect electron flow or tone in preamp tubes? -Rod-



It depends. Depends on the size of the magnet and the proximity to the amp.

Right next to the Large Hadron Collider at CERN, then yes. It will suck the tone right out of it.

A refrigerator magnet stuck to the chassis next to V1, then no.

Here you go:

Magnetism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Further reading:

Electromagnetic induction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Natedog_37

PtTimeRckr said:


> Care to share your rig and settings?




Amp is set to 20Watts

Clean change on Crunch
Gain at 1 1/2 
Volume 8

Red channel
Gain at 9
Volume at 3

EQ
Treble 4
mid 4
bass 4+ a little

Prese 4
Reson 5

tone shift off

Not going to lie it blue me away. I had the help of my other guitarist "He is a Tube junky" set it up and he was truly shocked at how great is sounded for the volume and the low end it was pulling for 1 12"


I was playing though my Gibson SG and it sounded killer. stock pups in it. will try my Ibanez "Active pups", and a couple other guitars tonight.

Must say I some what wish I would have got this over the HD150. Don't get me wrong I love the HD 150 due to all the tones, sounds etc I get out of it.


wanted to add we are a cover band. Play 70-todays rock
outfield
Hailstorm
Metallica "old good stuff nothing from black on"
Muse
etc a little of everything and this amp handled it with no issue.

I was using my Bad monkey, and the Beringer Chorus in front of the amp


----------



## Len

Micky said:


> It depends. Depends on the size of the magnet and the proximity to the amp.
> 
> Right next to the Large Hadron Collider at CERN, then yes. It will suck the tone right out of it.
> 
> A refrigerator magnet stuck to the chassis next to V1, then no.
> 
> Here you go:
> 
> Magnetism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Further reading:
> 
> Electromagnetic induction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Just toss Mu-metal around the tubes. Problem solved. You can now rock out at CERN


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> It depends. Depends on the size of the magnet and the proximity to the amp.
> 
> Right next to the Large Hadron Collider at CERN, then yes. It will suck the tone right out of it.
> 
> A refrigerator magnet stuck to the chassis next to V1, then no.
> 
> Here you go:
> 
> Magnetism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Further reading:
> 
> Electromagnetic induction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



I'm thinking more along the lines of a center-holed neo magnet sitting on top of V1. These are strong enough to be somewhat difficult to pry apart, so I'm just curious. Not quite the strength of anything at CERN but far stronger than the average refrigerator magnet.
Pkg should be on the way manana! -Rod-


----------



## Natedog_37

Ok question.

I read what little info comes with the amp. there is a 16 ohm, a 8ohm, and a 8ohm speak out.

For giggles I was going to hookup my line 6 half stack which is a left 8ohm, and a right 8ohm

Now reading the the booklet I see you can connect to 16ohm to both 8 ohm?

I am so lost.

Question I have can I connect the 2 8ohm to the back of the amp and not screw if up.


----------



## Micky

Natedog_37 said:


> Question I have can I connect the 2 8ohm to the back of the amp and not screw if up.



You can't.

You can plug 1 16-ohm speaker into the 16-ohm jack
Or
You can plug 1 8-ohm speaker into one of the 8-ohm jacks
Or 
You can plug 2 16-ohm speakers into the 8-ohm jacks


----------



## Natedog_37

^ thank you that is what I though. 

Again thank you Micky..


----------



## wolfpack

Micky said:


> You can't.
> 
> You can plug 1 16-ohm speaker into the 16-ohm jack
> Or
> You can plug 1 8-ohm speaker into one of the 8-ohm jacks
> Or
> You can plug 2 16-ohm speakers into the 8-ohm jacks



Can one 16 ohm speaker be plugged into the 16 ohm jack & another 16 ohm speaker be into the 8 ohm, or do both have to be into the two 8 ohm outputs ?


----------



## newplayeroldguy

New guy here, nothing to add, but wanted to thank everyone for all the info here. I'm about two weeks into owning mine, and I'm more than pleased with it.


----------



## Micky

wolfpack said:


> Can one 16 ohm speaker be plugged into the 16 ohm jack & another 16 ohm speaker be into the 8 ohm, or do both have to be into the two 8 ohm outputs ?



2 X 16-ohm speakers MUST be plugged into the 2 8-ohm jacks.
(8-ohm total load)


----------



## John 14:6

I am thinking about a Marshall DSL40C, but it sure sounds pretty hissy in most clips I have heard. Is the amp really that noisy? The noise could be due to a lot of things like bad power or lack of shielding in the videos. I am also thing about a Splawn Supersport or Streetrod though they are twice the price of the Marshall or more.


----------



## ken361

John 14:6 said:


> I am thinking about a Marshall DSL40C, but it sure sounds pretty hissy in most clips I have heard. Is the amp really that noisy? The noise could be due to a lot of things like bad power or lack of shielding in the videos. I am also thing about a Splawn Supersport or Streetrod though they are twice the price of the Marshall or more.



Mines pretty dam quiet and I owned a bunch of amps, I retubed the preamp right away. Not a single rattle in that amp!


----------



## 60Cycle

John 14:6 said:


> I am thinking about a Marshall DSL40C, but it sure sounds pretty hissy in most clips I have heard. Is the amp really that noisy? The noise could be due to a lot of things like bad power or lack of shielding in the videos. I am also thing about a Splawn Supersport or Streetrod though they are twice the price of the Marshall or more.



Mine was really noisy, I swapped out the preamp tubes. Everything I put in it got rid of the noisy idle.


----------



## JEB

John 14:6 said:


> I am thinking about a Marshall DSL40C, but it sure sounds pretty hissy in most clips I have heard. Is the amp really that noisy? The noise could be due to a lot of things like bad power or lack of shielding in the videos. I am also thing about a Splawn Supersport or Streetrod though they are twice the price of the Marshall or more.



Mine's dead quite on the classic and crunch channel until the gain is cranked. Still very quiet on OD1&2 with reasonably high gain.

Thanks to recommendations here, I've gotten good tubes and tube shields.


----------



## Bobby D

g'day folks, 
so I have replaced all my pre amp tubes with ehx's that with the swapping the speaker to an eminance legend has cured all my ills. my sound is full and rich with lotsa punch and whisper quiet when nothins goin on.. when the time comes, I will swap the power tubes for TADs, and i am sure i will fall in love all over again.
rock on dudes and dudettes
Thanks for all the amazing tips, this is a kik ass forum


----------



## crisis

Finally booked a jam and the amp decides to throw it in. No output at all. Swapped cables, guitars etc. Tried 20 and 40watt settings, switched effects loops in and out, unplugged footswitch. Nothing. Zip! Is there a fuse in this thing anywhere or is it off to the warranty centre?


----------



## JEB

crisis said:


> Finally booked a jam and the amp decides to throw it in. No output at all. Swapped cables, guitars etc. Tried 20 and 40watt settings, switched effects loops in and out, unplugged footswitch. Nothing. Zip! Is there a fuse in this thing anywhere or is it off to the warranty centre?



There is a fuse where the power cord plugs into the amp.


----------



## Micky

JEB said:


> There is a fuse where the power cord plugs into the amp.



Correct. There is a fuse holder built into the power plug socket.


----------



## rjohns1

But he said there is no output, which I take is that the power turns on. There is an HT fuse inside the amp. If that pops you could Still get a light on the power switch and the channel switching light, and I would think also heaters to the tubes. You might have to pull the chassis and check. If it is blown, get the tubes tested. A shorted power tube will pop that fuse in a heartbeat. I've had it happen, only it wasn't fused on my egnater, and it took out a bunch of components. I hope it's simple for ya though.


----------



## Micky

I didn't see where he said the power lights come on.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Yes check power tubes. Weakest link first. Often takes out the HT fuse. Stuff happens with tube amps.


----------



## Rahlstin

Used the DSL100H tonight for rehersal with my 1960A loaded with G12s ad it sounds pretty darn good. Needs a bias review so tomorrow ill set that up right and then blast away all night. Even my tele sounds good through it.


----------



## Micky

Rahlstin said:


> Even my tele sounds good through it.



That's funny right there...


----------



## oyvn

Hello. First time poster here

I just came back from the store were i placed an order for the dsl40c. Im quite excited  Its going to be my first tube amp! (I have an cube 40gx now and was at first in doubt if it was worth it) 

I have been reading alot in this forum about the dsl40c and i have come to understand that changing the speaker is necessary(?!) 
Should i just order a g12m 65 creamback right away? 

Another thing: To boost for solo what should i put in efx loop: a boss ge-7 or a MXR 6-band eq ?


----------



## USAPatriot

oyvn said:


> Hello. First time poster here
> 
> I just came back from the store were i placed an order for the dsl40c. Im quite excited  Its going to be my first tube amp! (I have an cube 40gx now and was at first in doubt if it was worth it)
> 
> I have been reading alot in this forum about the dsl40c and i have come to understand that changing the speaker is necessary(?!)
> Should i just order a g12m 65 creamback right away?
> 
> Another thing: To boost for solo what should i put in efx loop: a boss ge-7 or a MXR 6-band eq ?



No, no and the MXR 10.

I don't know why it is people spend all this money on amps and order replacement parts before the amp even arrives. Some people like the 70/80 just fine. Some have put expensive replacements in only to decide that they like the original better. Your best bet is to play the hell out of it, loudly if you can, get the speaker broken in and then decide whether a new speaker is needed. If anything, the first thing you want to do is check to make sure the bias is in a good range. Since you have no experience with tube amps, I guess that part's out and there's no point in spending money taking it to a tech. I assume you bought it new, so there's a warranty to cover any issues if the bias is way wrong and takes out some components. Don't sweat it. Experiment with the EQ until you get the tone that suits you. The 10-band MXR gives a bit more flexibility and has both a clean boost and a gain boost. In the end, the amp is only as good as you are. Better to work on you rather than the amp, unless you've already hit guitar god status. -Rod-


----------



## bman

Micky said:


> Yes, that is V1.
> You will want a nice quiet tube there.



I agree but also a tube w/ high gain in V1 Tungsol do a nice job. The re-issues seem to have all the bases covered. High-gain/full/balanced/smooth/quiet. I tried about a 1/2 dozen or so brands and settled with a Tungsol.


----------



## Micky

Popped in a matched set of Electro-Harmonix 6550EH power tubes today.
(thanks to USAPatriot!)

It turned a meek and mild DSL40c into a fire-breathing dragon...

I gotta start a new thread about it.


----------



## oyvn

USAPatriot said:


> No, no and the MXR 10.
> 
> I don't know why it is people spend all this money on amps and order replacement parts before the amp even arrives. Some people like the 70/80 just fine. Some have put expensive replacements in only to decide that they like the original better. Your best bet is to play the hell out of it, loudly if you can, get the speaker broken in and then decide whether a new speaker is needed. If anything, the first thing you want to do is check to make sure the bias is in a good range. Since you have no experience with tube amps, I guess that part's out and there's no point in spending money taking it to a tech. I assume you bought it new, so there's a warranty to cover any issues if the bias is way wrong and takes out some components. Don't sweat it. Experiment with the EQ until you get the tone that suits you. The 10-band MXR gives a bit more flexibility and has both a clean boost and a gain boost. In the end, the amp is only as good as you are. Better to work on you rather than the amp, unless you've already hit guitar god status. -Rod-



Hei. Thanks for reply. I will read up on that tube bias 

The reason i asked about the speakerchange on the dsl40c was because i have read on this forum that it is to fizzy and bright with the stock speaker. I dont like a fizzy sound and if most of you on this forum says "go creamback" i will try it right away. I play mostly rock cover and some blues. No metal.


----------



## 60Cycle

oyvn said:


> Hei. Thanks for reply. I will read up on that tube bias
> 
> The reason i asked about the speakerchange on the dsl40c was because i have read on this forum that it is to fizzy and bright with the stock speaker. I dont like a fizzy sound and if most of you on this forum says "go creamback" i will try it right away. I play mostly rock cover and some blues. No metal.




Fizzy goes away by turning the gain knob counterclockwise or the volume clockwise. The icepick highs are tamed by using another speaker, and I did it with of all things the G12T-75 which is supposed to be a biting in the mids and high speakers.

Break it in loud if possible, adjust your eq maybe you'll like it. I used mine for awhile before changing it.


----------



## Micky

oyvn said:


> Hei. Thanks for reply. I will read up on that tube bias
> 
> The reason i asked about the speakerchange on the dsl40c was because i have read on this forum that it is to fizzy and bright with the stock speaker. I dont like a fizzy sound and if most of you on this forum says "go creamback" i will try it right away. I play mostly rock cover and some blues. No metal.



Break in the OEM speaker first then if you don't like it, swap it out.
It is easy to do.

It is also easy to turn down the Treble and Presence controls...


----------



## Rahlstin

I liked the stock speaker but the creamback is a lot more refined or smoother without the harshness the stock one put out. Like normal low end Tequila u buy here compared to some real pure smooth stuff in mexico. Similar effect, but raunchy n rough going down compared to smooth and wow. 

I also put a 100pf silvermica cap into C19 as at lower volume the creamback hid some of the highs.


----------



## ken361

I have just over 30HR's now on the stock speaker its not bad! NOS tubes help EQ the highs


----------



## crisis

rjohns1 said:


> But he said there is no output, which I take is that the power turns on. There is an HT fuse inside the amp. If that pops you could Still get a light on the power switch and the channel switching light, and I would think also heaters to the tubes. You might have to pull the chassis and check. If it is blown, get the tubes tested. A shorted power tube will pop that fuse in a heartbeat. I've had it happen, only it wasn't fused on my egnater, and it took out a bunch of components. I hope it's simple for ya though.


 Yeah correct. It turns on. I did find that other fuse after I posted but it gets power, just no output. I have contacted the store and asked them for the details for the company that handles the service side f things. See how it goes. Thanks for all your input.


----------



## oyvn

Tanks for good answers everyone. 
While i wait for my dsl40c i can look at pedlas. Since this is my first tubeamp i dont have any pedals yet. Any advice for first one or two pedals for this amp? I play mostly rock cover and some blues.


----------



## 60Cycle

oyvn said:


> Tanks for good answers everyone.
> While i wait for my dsl40c i can look at pedlas. Since this is my first tubeamp i dont have any pedals yet. Any advice for first one or two pedals for this amp? I play mostly rock cover and some blues.



Wah and a MXR 10 band if I was only buying one or two for it. That's all I run through mine when I have it out anyway. Im not a big on effects guy though, I like a little reverb, a wah and the MXR 10 band and a Tubescreamer on the Green Channel. Not a big effects guy, I like to hear those tubes coloring my sound and don't want it cluttered up.


----------



## newplayeroldguy

OK, I have my first dumb question, take it easy on me, I don't know much about tube amps. I'm going to switch out the stock speaker for a creamback, I've heard a few side by side comparisons and this is a clear choice to me. My question is this- can I just pull the stock speaker and install the new one or does this mysterious biasing have to be re-checked/re-done?


----------



## Bamadave

A speaker swap won't affect the bias.


----------



## newplayeroldguy

thanks, I don't want to screw anything up


----------



## newplayeroldguy

One more- I want to order the 16ohm one, right?


----------



## solarburn

newplayeroldguy said:


> One more- I want to order the 16ohm one, right?



Yes.


----------



## newplayeroldguy

thank you


----------



## oyvn

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Yes.



cant you have a 8ohm speaker instead of the 16ohm speaker?


----------



## Micky

oyvn said:


> cant you have a 8ohm speaker instead of the 16ohm speaker?


Yes.


----------



## frankyfal

newplayeroldguy said:


> OK, I have my first dumb question, take it easy on me, I don't know much about tube amps. I'm going to switch out the stock speaker for a creamback, I've heard a few side by side comparisons and this is a clear choice to me. My question is this- can I just pull the stock speaker and install the new one or does this mysterious biasing have to be re-checked/re-done?



Did you break the seventy/80 in yet?


----------



## mrpipster

So what dose the c in the name stand for?


----------



## ken361

Combo


----------



## frankyfal

mrpipster said:


> So what dose the c in the name stand for?



Clean or Crunch Combo


----------



## newplayeroldguy

frankyfal said:


> Did you break the seventy/80 in yet?



I've played it two hours a day for a couple of weeks, but I've got it at 20 watts and I'm in a condo, so I can't really crank it. Is that enough?


----------



## solarburn

newplayeroldguy said:


> I've played it two hours a day for a couple of weeks, but I've got it at 20 watts and I'm in a condo, so I can't really crank it. Is that enough?



Give it a month at least. Especially since yer not playing with much volume.

It's only time. Those other speakers will still be around to buy.


----------



## jimmyjames

the H suffix is for Hellyeahhh


----------



## frankyfal

newplayeroldguy said:


> I've played it two hours a day for a couple of weeks, but I've got it at 20 watts and I'm in a condo, so I can't really crank it. Is that enough?



My opinion is the amp sounds like crap at low volume when compared to say 50% volume. True you can dial in a decent tone in a bedroom, but your decision to change the speaker suggests you are not content with its tone. The best speaker made won't change that unfortunately. Marshalls over 15 watts are made to be played loud and to excel in a band situation. That is why the voicing is so different on the red (lead) channel. It will cut through the band mix even though when heard alone it seems bright and thin. 50 feet away from you when mixed in a band your solo will sound sweet and clear. :Granted you get what you pay for. A DSL40 will do the job, but there are Marshalls that cost 4 times as much that do the job even better.


----------



## newplayeroldguy

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Give it a month at least. Especially since yer not playing with much volume.
> 
> It's only time. Those other speakers will still be around to buy.



time I've got- I think

thanks


----------



## newplayeroldguy

frankyfal said:


> My opinion is the amp sounds like crap at low volume when compared to say 50% volume. True you can dial in a decent tone in a bedroom, but your decision to change the speaker suggests you are not content with its tone. The best speaker made won't change that unfortunately. Marshalls over 15 watts are made to be played loud and to excel in a band situation. That is why the voicing is so different on the red (lead) channel. It will cut through the band mix even though when heard alone it seems bright and thin. 50 feet away from you when mixed in a band your solo will sound sweet and clear. :Granted you get what you pay for. A DSL40 will do the job, but there are Marshalls that cost 4 times as much that do the job even better.



I have a room I can use that isn't on our party wall- maybe I'll move it over there and crank it up a bit. 

Thanks


----------



## Jethro Rocker

crisis said:


> Yeah correct. It turns on. I did find that other fuse after I posted but it gets power, just no output. I have contacted the store and asked them for the details for the company that handles the service side f things. See how it goes. Thanks for all your input.



Couldbe power tubes. At minimum, put a new set in and see. Do the current power tubes light up? It may be that simple and save a service call.


----------



## Natedog_37

I will add been playing non stop for what 2 weeks on this. and I really like the stock speaker. You can kill the highs with good EQ.

I do miss the sound pressure the 4x12 cab gives though but I bought this for places my large amp can't go.


But more and more I am thinking of playing this everywhere. LOL. can getting 2x12 cab.


----------



## Pumpkin88

I'm about to pull the trigger on a used Marshall 1960A cab. What do you guys typically look for when buying these cabs used? I think I may go through Guitar Center so I can just return it in the event theres something wrong with it.


----------



## Dmann

Pumpkin88 said:


> I'm about to pull the trigger on a used Marshall 1960A cab. What do you guys typically look for when buying these cabs used? I think I may go through Guitar Center so I can just return it in the event theres something wrong with it.



This is just me, but I would 1st fire it up with an amp, and just use my ears and listen to each speaker. Then, take the back off, physically inspect all the connections and wiring, then test each connection and speaker with a multimeter, then take the speakers out and check the cones for rips, tears or other signs of abuse. Oh yea, make sure the speakers are the actual ones listed and not some cheap replacement.... it happens.

Use a drill, it is quick and painless. You can easily check everything in under 10 minutes.

I mean, I'm going to do this anyways once I get it home, so might as well make sure before I buy it right?


At the very least, plug a cable in and test Ohm readings with a multimeter and use a flashlight on the front to see the speakers through the grill, even then though you might not see blown speakers....


----------



## Rahlstin

Just fyi my DSL100H pin 3 plate voltage sits at 461v. I put my last quad of =C= in it and biased to 38mv/valve. Just used the weber online bias calculator.


----------



## mikeller

I would like to put velcro on the bottom of my DSL40C Footswitch for pedalboard mounting. Anyone ever successful removed the foam in one piece?


----------



## Pumpkin88

Well guitar center wanted way too much for a cab in good condition plus shipping so I ended up buying it locally. I got really lucky with the find, gentleman took very good care of it over the years. Great overall sound, a lot more full sounding than before. To anyone thinking about getting a cab for their DSL40c I highly recommend it.


----------



## Len

mikeller said:


> I would like to put velcro on the bottom of my DSL40C Footswitch for pedalboard mounting. Anyone ever successful removed the foam in one piece?



Why do you have to remove it in one piece? If you ruin it you can get a replacement pedal (they are very common).


----------



## Len

Pumpkin88 said:


> Well guitar center wanted way too much for a cab in good condition plus shipping so I ended up buying it locally. I got really lucky with the find, gentleman took very good care of it over the years. Great overall sound, a lot more full sounding than before. To anyone thinking about getting a cab for their DSL40c I highly recommend it.



I converted my DSL40 to a head, and use it with a 1936 cab. Great setup.


----------



## MarshallDog

Len said:


> Why do you have to remove it in one piece? If you ruin it you can get a replacement pedal (they are very common).



I just put the velcro right over the foam rubber, works great. Never had to remove it yet.


----------



## mikeller

MarshallDog said:


> I just put the velcro right over the foam rubber, works great. Never had to remove it yet.



I never had much luck getting velcro to hold on foam. I was just trying to preserve the foam, but will work it out, Thanks


----------



## Micky

mikeller said:


> I never had much luck getting velcro to hold on foam. I was just trying to preserve the foam, but will work it out, Thanks


The foam on my footpedal came off LONG ago...


----------



## Rahlstin

Cooling fans I put in the DSL's - Another thread wanted to see so I thought Id post here as well. 
DSL100H Fan Photo by Rahlstin | Photobucket
DSL100H cooling fan

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd279/Rahlstin/20150118_174703.jpg
DSL40C cooling fan


----------



## Len

Rahlstin said:


> Cooling fans I put in the DSL's - Another thread wanted to see so I thought Id post here as well.
> DSL100H Fan Photo by Rahlstin | Photobucket
> DSL100H cooling fan
> 
> http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd279/Rahlstin/20150118_174703.jpg
> DSL40C cooling fan



I've never heard of a DSL40C overheating. Why add the fan?


----------



## Micky

Tubes and tube amps are supposed to run hot...


----------



## MarshallDog

mikeller said:


> I never had much luck getting velcro to hold on foam. I was just trying to preserve the foam, but will work it out, Thanks



If you get the big industrial roll at lest say Home Depot or Lowes, it will stick to anything and it is a bitch to pull off...


----------



## MarshallMatters

Hi guys just some questions after a lot of reading on this thread. I'm a bedroom player at the moment , own a DSL 5c and a 1x12 Mesa Cab with a V30 , but i'm coming back at a band, rehearsals and small gigs after several years of retirement and i think i need something bigger. Well my question is : i'm gonna have to sell the dls 5c to make funds to purchase the 40c so i need to know some stuff in advance like : 

- Can i play this amp at bedroom volumes without the amp sounding too fizzy or i gonna have to get a attenuator to do that ( even at the 20w mode the amp can sound good to practice with my backing tracks ?)

- The C19 mod , one i'm very interested in doing so affects only the lead 2 channel or both channels ? and doing that mod will the amp sound worst at low volumes ? (from what i read the C19 helps bedroom playing , but i must be wrong, cuz i read so much stuff in this thread last week that may have caused me a brainfart ^^ 

I wanna use this amp as my main amp , to practice at home , rehearsals, jammings and small gigs , so for the bigger stuff i know i'm good , its the "practice at home" part that keeps me in fear that i'm only gonna be able to play this beast only outside of the house, but i keep hearing that even bigger amps like a 2203 or 6100 or DLS100 sounds better at low volumes than the small amps because of the thump and headroom they have , that's my main concern . my other big concern is if the C19 mod affects the home playing in a big way (making the amp sounds dull at low volumes) or just removes the fizzyness overall and gives more "balls" to the sound . Thanx in advance. I'm having a blast reading this thread , so much great info thanx guys . Any input will be priceless to me


----------



## ken361

I play alot at bed room and still have good tone! I retubed the preamp right away so that helps pretty much. Didnt do any mods or a speaker change yet and still very happy. My buddy brought over his American Strat and sounded great!! lead 1 and cleans.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

MarshallMatters said:


> Hi guys just some questions after a lot of reading on this thread. I'm a bedroom player at the moment , own a DSL 5c and a 1x12 Mesa Cab with a V30 , but i'm coming back at a band, rehearsals and small gigs after several years of retirement and i think i need something bigger. Well my question is : i'm gonna have to sell the dls 5c to make funds to purchase the 40c so i need to know some stuff in advance like :
> 
> - Can i play this amp at bedroom volumes without the amp sounding too fizzy or i gonna have to get a attenuator to do that ( even at the 20w mode the amp can sound good to practice with my backing tracks ?)
> 
> - The C19 mod , one i'm very interested in doing so affects only the lead 2 channel or both channels ? and doing that mod will the amp sound worst at low volumes ? (from what i read the C19 helps bedroom playing , but i must be wrong, cuz i read so much stuff in this thread last week that may have caused me a brainfart ^^
> 
> I wanna use this amp as my main amp , to practice at home , rehearsals, jammings and small gigs , so for the bigger stuff i know i'm good , its the "practice at home" part that keeps me in fear that i'm only gonna be able to play this beast only outside of the house, but i keep hearing that even bigger amps like a 2203 or 6100 or DLS100 sounds better at low volumes than the small amps because of the thump and headroom they have , that's my main concern . my other big concern is if the C19 mod affects the home playing in a big way (making the amp sounds dull at low volumes) or just removes the fizzyness overall and gives more "balls" to the sound . Thanx in advance. I'm having a blast reading this thread , so much great info thanx guys . Any input will be priceless to me



The 40C sounds good even at bedroom levels. It obviously sings great at louder levels but has a nice low end crunch at lower volumes. I did the c19 clip simply to get channel 2 EQ to sound like channel 1 EQ. Worked for me. You would try it stock and clip if you felt you needed to. I had a spare broken in V30 that I installed and NOS tubes, it's a great amp! A 2203 can't really play at bedroom levels with a 4x12 IMO, and why try and pit one on a 1x12? It goes from hmmm, could be a bit louder to oh, oh, I just rattled the nails out of the siding. If the Mesa cab is a 16 ohm (unlikely..) you can use it with the 40C.


----------



## MarshallMatters

Thanx ken361 and Jetho Rocker and yes my cab is 8ohm unfortunately  . My friend has a lying around england v30 that he will trade with me for other gear in case i make the purchase so im good in the speaker department . My only doubt remains on the c19 mod but i guess that only in person i can make such decision , but it takes away the gain ,the harsh or both when the mod is made? and the c19 affects all the channels , just the ultra gain ones or just the lead 2 of the ultra ?


----------



## Rahlstin

Len said:


> I've never heard of a DSL40C overheating. Why add the fan?



It dosnt overheat. Long term reliability and longevity. Has worked for me for 25 years in all my tube amps.


----------



## Rahlstin

Micky said:


> Tubes and tube amps are supposed to run hot...



The items that are supposed to run hot still do, its just dissipated better. The items that fail over time from an abundance of heat over a long time have a greater chance of not failing.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

MarshallMatters said:


> Thanx ken361 and Jetho Rocker and yes my cab is 8ohm unfortunately  . My friend has a lying around england v30 that he will trade with me for other gear in case i make the purchase so im good in the speaker department . My only doubt remains on the c19 mod but i guess that only in person i can make such decision , but it takes away the gain ,the harsh or both when the mod is made? and the c19 affects all the channels , just the ultra gain ones or just the lead 2 of the ultra ?


The C19 killed some of the high end harshness on ultra channels - I switch from crunch to lead 1 and EQ voicing is virtually the same. Same gain as before clip. Gotta try it and listen for yourself!


----------



## Dukedbk

Hell gang! I have a DSL40C - I removed C19 (470k) and replaced it with a 100. I removed R111 resistor and installed a Classic Tones Choke. I replaced the speaker with a V30....I love the amp! I don't plan on ever selling but the amp is brand new and if I ever need any warranty work I am going to swap back to the stock parts...My problem is that I put the cap & resistor in a baggie, but before I could place it in a nice safe place my wife cleaned house and now the parts are gone - not a big deal...However I now have no way to return the amp to stock form. Anyone know where I can buy these componets...so they are are the same brand as stock?? Getting the 450K cap isn't a big deal - I have found 471caps that look correct - but I can not find the Power resistor anywhere? it is marked "BARO 7w 270Ohm J" it is just a wire wound Ceramic resistor with stand off mount, but I cant find one anywhere...HELP!???


----------



## Bobby D

I broke in my 70/80 for about 50 hrs.. still seemed to shrill for me. i ended up putting an Eminence legend g128 and an ehx in V1.. nice and full sound now. the Eminence ran me $80 up here in Canada eh... reasonable price for a massive upgrade


----------



## ken361

Those are good speakers i used one in a blues deluxe, still have my stock though with almost 40 hrs on it


----------



## Rahlstin

Dukedbk said:


> Hell gang! I have a DSL40C - I removed C19 (470k) and replaced it with a 100. I removed R111 resistor and installed a Classic Tones Choke. I replaced the speaker with a V30....I love the amp! I don't plan on ever selling but the amp is brand new and if I ever need any warranty work I am going to swap back to the stock parts...My problem is that I put the cap & resistor in a baggie, but before I could place it in a nice safe place my wife cleaned house and now the parts are gone - not a big deal...However I now have no way to return the amp to stock form. Anyone know where I can buy these componets...so they are are the same brand as stock?? Getting the 450K cap isn't a big deal - I have found 471caps that look correct - but I can not find the Power resistor anywhere? it is marked "BARO 7w 270Ohm J" it is just a wire wound Ceramic resistor with stand off mount, but I cant find one anywhere...HELP!???


Anyone who can fix that amp can probably order the parts for you. Plus when u sell it whos gunna crack it open first.....


----------



## Pumpkin88

Len said:


> I converted my DSL40 to a head, and use it with a 1936 cab. Great setup.



That must sound awesome. Originally I was going to go with a 2x12 Marshall cab to keep things somewhat practical. Than after doing some shopping around I realized the price between a 2x12 and 4x12 is virtually the same, or at least when it comes to Marshall cabs. On top of that I wanted to still utilize the internal speaker so 16 ohm cabs were harder to come by.


----------



## Pumpkin88

MarshallMatters said:


> Hi guys just some questions after a lot of reading on this thread. I'm a bedroom player at the moment , own a DSL 5c and a 1x12 Mesa Cab with a V30 , but i'm coming back at a band, rehearsals and small gigs after several years of retirement and i think i need something bigger. Well my question is : i'm gonna have to sell the dls 5c to make funds to purchase the 40c so i need to know some stuff in advance like :
> 
> - Can i play this amp at bedroom volumes without the amp sounding too fizzy or i gonna have to get a attenuator to do that ( even at the 20w mode the amp can sound good to practice with my backing tracks ?)
> 
> - The C19 mod , one i'm very interested in doing so affects only the lead 2 channel or both channels ? and doing that mod will the amp sound worst at low volumes ? (from what i read the C19 helps bedroom playing , but i must be wrong, cuz i read so much stuff in this thread last week that may have caused me a brainfart ^^
> 
> I wanna use this amp as my main amp , to practice at home , rehearsals, jammings and small gigs , so for the bigger stuff i know i'm good , its the "practice at home" part that keeps me in fear that i'm only gonna be able to play this beast only outside of the house, but i keep hearing that even bigger amps like a 2203 or 6100 or DLS100 sounds better at low volumes than the small amps because of the thump and headroom they have , that's my main concern . my other big concern is if the C19 mod affects the home playing in a big way (making the amp sounds dull at low volumes) or just removes the fizzyness overall and gives more "balls" to the sound . Thanx in advance. I'm having a blast reading this thread , so much great info thanx guys . Any input will be priceless to me



If you play anything "modern" I wouldn't cut it as it does alter the high gain signature IMO.


----------



## Micky

Also - The louder you play, the less influence the cap has on your tone.

May be best to either leave it, or possibly experiment with different values to find the sweet spot.


----------



## MarshallMatters

Good to see you around here micky thanx for the input , i owe you big time because you recomended me the 5c last year and i bought it and love that amp  . I know you have both amps , so how do they compare in tone ? apples and oranges i guess , i know the power tubes on the 40c are El34's and the one in the 5c isnt , but at least in the youtube videos i watch i always find the gain on the 40c at least on the lead 2 very fizzy (bedroom volumes at least) and this doesnt happen on the 5c with me , i love the ultra of this amp , thats the main reason that got me thinking about doing the c19 mod even before buying the amp wich i think i'm gonna pull the trigger next week (cant wait anymore GAS its eating me on the inside ^^) - for reference this are the styles i wanna cover with this amp - Hard Rock(70's and 80's), Classic Rock, Blues,Metal (80's hair metal and old school metal basically , UFO,Ozzy,Black Sabath,Deep Purple,(80's) Metallica, Dokken,Ratt,Cinderella,Megadeth,etc) i dont intend to play Slipknot ,Lamb of God ,90's Recto Metallica,etc -i think you guys got the picture


----------



## Dukedbk

As for removing c19....I would not remove it. I tried, at lower volumes it was just too much. I do some building @ modding so I have a lot of spare parts. I tried removing then everything between nothing and 470k. I ended up going back and forth from 68-100, and decided on the 100k. To me it was perfect! Along with changing to a V30, changing c19, adding a choke, I also replaced V1 with a Tungsol 12ax7 and V4 with a Sovtek 12ax7 LPS. I am done and love it. 
As for the original R111 and C19, I am sure any repairman can get the parts - the only reason I want these on hand is in the event I have a problem and need to have warranty work done - I want to replace with the original stock parts before taking it anywhere. If anyone knows how to locate these it would be greatly appreciated!


----------



## USAPatriot

Top - Because it's a sin to be halfway down the page  -Rod-


----------



## USAPatriot

I'm still fighting problems with hum in the DSL40C. Part of it, obviously, is the gain level that I'm running. I'd be shocked if it didn't hum! But there still seems to be something else going on, and it does diminish if I grab the guitar jack or lay my hands on the strings. So something is amiss, still. My ground wire - from the loop return out to a rod pounded into the ground - is intact and working. If I disconnect it the hum level increases some. I have a red retrovalve in one of the slots...V3 I think...and putting that in actually quieted the amp some. That's coming out today.
I have 2 EH12AX7's and 1 EH12AT7 arriving today. The AT is going into V4, the EH's are going into V2 and V3. I'll probably try a different 2-dot Marshall in V1 as I think I have 3 of them. I'm also swapping out the power tubes. After I do my testing and get the bias set I'm going to set the bias by ear. If the values are just a couple of mV apart I'll give that a try if the amp is quieter. This has been a bit of a problem since I got the amp. Nothing earthshaking. Playing at any level covers the hum but it seems to be more than it should be, even on the green channel. And there's the guitar jack quieting it down too. Best test I know. Could it be the guitar? Possibly but for $2700 I sure the fvck hope not. My guitar cable? Yes, but others I've used have done the same. I'm currently using a vintage (60's or 70's) cable with what look like galvanized plugs.

Is there a test I can run with my DMM on various spots in the amp's grounding system to see if something is amiss? Jump the loop and see if it goes quiet? And I still need to install the choke!

That is all. -Rod-


----------



## JEB

USAPatriot said:


> I'm still fighting problems with hum in the DSL40C.
> 
> Could it be the guitar? Possibly but for $2700 I sure the fvck hope not.
> 
> That is all. -Rod-



What type of guitar and pickups are you using? Does it still hum through other amps or only the DSL?

A very nice telecaster of mine is horrible about humming and it has nothing to do with the amp or cables or lack of grounding of the amp or guitar. It is the type of pickups and capacitance caused by my body (not being grounded) in close proximity. 

Some have suggested I use a grounding strap on myself (I don't like that idea), but I just grab the strings when I'm not playing and get in a habit of turning the volume of the guitar off when I set it down.


----------



## Micky

9 times out of 10 it is the guitar.
Easy way to tell - Unplug everything from the amp.
Should be slight hiss on the Ultra channel, with the gain turned up.
Clean/Crunch on the Classic channel should be quiet, even with the gain up.

And the only time the amp will hum because of the bias is if it is waaaay off...


----------



## oyvn

Just picked up my dsl40c today!  Testing it now. I also has some hiss when i turn up the volume or gain but i guess its the guitar becuse when i hold my finger on the plughead (connectet to my guitar) the hiss is almost gone. Is it a fix for that?

One more question: If i want to check the bias settings. How do i find the test points? I never biased a tubeamp before. Need backup! I took of the backplate but i was unsure what the next step was. The 4 top bolts next? Bias should be 36MV?


----------



## USAPatriot

The guitar is a 2014 Gibson LP Standard with BB1 and BB2. -Rod-


----------



## oyvn

Tested some more. Even when my guitar in not plugged inn there is "white noise" when i crank the volume. On all channels. More volume and/or gain = more noise. On the ultra its like my old carradio loosing its signal.

What could be the problem? Or is it supposed to make that static noise like a radio?


----------



## Micky

oyvn said:


> One more question: If i want to check the bias settings. How do i find the test points? I never biased a tubeamp before. Need backup! I took of the backplate but i was unsure what the next step was. The 4 top bolts next? Bias should be 36MV?



1st page of this thread.

As a relative newcomer you now must face DSL40 initiation.

You are hereby required to read every post in this thread. You are forbidden to post further here until you complete your mission. Only after that will such a newbie question such as above be forgiven.

All ye in favor? Like this post...


----------



## USAPatriot

[ame="www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7aIf1YnbbU"]www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7aIf1YnbbU[/ame]


----------



## MarshallDog

USAPatriot said:


> I'm still fighting problems with hum in the DSL40C. Part of it, obviously, is the gain level that I'm running. I'd be shocked if it didn't hum! But there still seems to be something else going on, and it does diminish if I grab the guitar jack or lay my hands on the strings. So something is amiss, still. My ground wire - from the loop return out to a rod pounded into the ground - is intact and working. If I disconnect it the hum level increases some. I have a red retrovalve in one of the slots...V3 I think...and putting that in actually quieted the amp some. That's coming out today.
> I have 2 EH12AX7's and 1 EH12AT7 arriving today. The AT is going into V4, the EH's are going into V2 and V3. I'll probably try a different 2-dot Marshall in V1 as I think I have 3 of them. I'm also swapping out the power tubes. After I do my testing and get the bias set I'm going to set the bias by ear. If the values are just a couple of mV apart I'll give that a try if the amp is quieter. This has been a bit of a problem since I got the amp. Nothing earthshaking. Playing at any level covers the hum but it seems to be more than it should be, even on the green channel. And there's the guitar jack quieting it down too. Best test I know. Could it be the guitar? Possibly but for $2700 I sure the fvck hope not. My guitar cable? Yes, but others I've used have done the same. I'm currently using a vintage (60's or 70's) cable with what look like galvanized plugs.
> 
> Is there a test I can run with my DMM on various spots in the amp's grounding system to see if something is amiss? Jump the loop and see if it goes quiet? And I still need to install the choke!
> 
> That is all. -Rod-



Yoo USAPatriot, Let me know what you think of the 12AT7 in V4/PI slot. I have been playing around with a few different 12AT7's, 12AY7's, 5751's and even a 12AU7 in various slots in my DSL 40C and my Jubilee 2258. I can say the 12AU7 sounds good but kills the volume. The 5751's seem to slightly lower the gain in any slot w/o really affecting the volume all that much. For me, I am just trying to reduce the gain a bit on the Ultra Channel so it sounds more like the Crunch Channel so I can set the Clean/Crunch as a Clean channel. Anyway, I tried these tubes in various slots and can determine wich slot I like the best. they all have there plus and minus's...


----------



## USAPatriot

MarshallDog said:


> Yoo USAPatriot, Let me know what you think of the 12AT7 in V4/PI slot. I have been playing around with a few different 12AT7's, 12AY7's, 5751's and even a 12AU7 in various slots in my DSL 40C and my Jubilee 2258. I can say the 12AU7 sounds good but kills the volume. The 5751's seem to slightly lower the gain in any slot w/o really affecting the volume all that much. For me, I am just trying to reduce the gain a bit on the Ultra Channel so it sounds more like the Crunch Channel so I can set the Clean/Crunch as a Clean channel. Anyway, I tried these tubes in various slots and can determine wich slot I like the best. they all have there plus and minus's...



MarshallDog,

If you want the Ultra (2) to sound more like the crunch, cut the C-19. I'm guessing you've tried that though. It worked for me. I'll let you know how this works out. -Rod-


----------



## oyvn

Micky said:


> 1st page of this thread.
> 
> As a relative newcomer you now must face DSL40 initiation.
> 
> You are hereby required to read every post in this thread. You are forbidden to post further here until you complete your mission. Only after that will such a newbie question such as above be forgiven.
> 
> All ye in favor? Like this post...



I tryed finding a step by step guide to biasing. My main problem is however the high static noise on all channels when i crank it.(unnplugged) Since this is my first tubeamp Im wondering if its suppoes to be this quite high "white radio noise" or if i have some faulty parts in my new amp.. And im sorry if i ask stupid questions.


----------



## Micky

Not a stupid question at all. But the answer is often overlooked because this thread is so large...

And yes, there will be some noise on the amp when turned up. That is normal.

Many users replace the inexpensive tubes that come in the amp with quieter, higher performance tubes. Most times the new tubes are more expensive, but hey, you get what you pay for. Reading this thread will reveal that. Glad to have you here. Now get busy.


----------



## USAPatriot

Wulp, I got a few things finished. First thing, I pulled the guitar plug and the noise level dropped by about 20%, so there's that. The remaining noise sounded like wind. I have an overhead fan but shutting it off did nothing. I jumped the loop and the noise increased dramatically. Bear in mind that I'm running my gain at 6 on Red2, so there's that too. I dropped the gain to 2 and lost 80% of the remaining noise but still more there than there might be.
I pulled my EH-6CA7's and examined them closely. There's no visible sign that my Speaker Soak has affected them. The flashing is normal, the glass is normal, no black haze marks anywhere. I visually checked them on occasion while the soak was in use and the tubes never once glowed more than normal.
I set the tubes aside and pondered my remaining sets, which are identical. One's the TAD EL-34B-STR and the other set are the stock Marshall tubes. I decided to go with the stock tubes. DCV was 464-465 and I biased them at 39. I vacillated between 38 and 40mV and decided to try them just a bit hotter, so 38.9-39.0 on each side.
I'm curious: Why is the bias reading slightly higher (.3 or .4mv) at the connector than it is at the resistors(R67 and R68)?
Lastly, I pulled the Marshall preamp tubes in V2,3 and 4 and put in the EH12AX7's in V2 and V3 and the EH12AT7 in the V4/PI slot. I left the Marshall double-dot 12AX7 in V1 since I really don't have a decent alternative.
I haven't fired it up yet to see how it sounds. Blood Diamond is on and can't miss that  -Rod-


----------



## frankyfal

MarshallDog said:


> Yoo USAPatriot, Let me know what you think of the 12AT7 in V4/PI slot. I have been playing around with a few different 12AT7's, 12AY7's, 5751's and even a 12AU7 in various slots in my DSL 40C and my Jubilee 2258. I can say the 12AU7 sounds good but kills the volume. The 5751's seem to slightly lower the gain in any slot w/o really affecting the volume all that much. For me, I am just trying to reduce the gain a bit on the Ultra Channel so it sounds more like the Crunch Channel so I can set the Clean/Crunch as a Clean channel. Anyway, I tried these tubes in various slots and can determine wich slot I like the best. they all have there plus and minus's...



DSL 40 is a great one channel amp. Set the crunch to where you want, use a tube screamer push for leads and reduce your guitar volume to clean up. When you master that to the point where you don't even need a second channel then play around with ultra one and see if you can get a good lead tone. Remember it's going to be very bright and very thin to the ear when played alone, but it's voiced to cut your solo through the mix over a drummer and a band. Marshall makes amps for guitarists in bands. If you want a muti channel amplifier for your home imo buy the Tweaker 40


----------



## Dmann

frankyfal said:


> Remember it's going to be very bright and very thin to the ear when played alone, but it's voiced to cut your solo through the mix over a drummer and a band. Marshall makes amps for guitarists in bands.



It's such a shame how many "players" don't understand this.


----------



## ken361

Set the red first! then the green should be ok it is for me! mines pretty beefy with my Les Paul you just gotta get some good tubes and the speaker cable! At7 will thin it pretty much horrible PI tubes unless its a Fender. I found good old stock on Ebay for 35.00 RFT's GE WA's,Sylvania's ect. Have to experiment!


----------



## ken361

Paul Gilbert, just noticed these with the combos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTKRIOBxK74

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oc0yCiCvy6Y


----------



## 60Cycle

ken361 said:


> Set the red first! then the green should be ok it is for me! mines pretty beefy with my Les Paul you just gotta get some good tubes and the speaker cable! At7 will thin it pretty much horrible PI tubes unless its a Fender. I found good old stock on Ebay for 35.00 RFT's GE WA's,Sylvania's ect. Have to experiment!



Speaker cable?


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Once again, speaker cable is irrelevant. You are runnuing 40 watts for a total of about a foot and a half...


----------



## Rahlstin

I changed my speaker cable to one with out a moulded plug. It has a switchcraft plug now, helps me sleep at night...


----------



## Natedog_37

I know my Gibson SG makes a strange sound when I am sitting down. When I stand up it goes away. With my Ibanez Les I don't get this. So it is the guitar. I get it setup where I love the way it sounds on both channels. Use the Bad Monkey to push the red channel over the top. I keep the green on crunch. So far I have not touched any of my other amps. Love this little guy.


----------



## ken361

60Cycle said:


> Speaker cable?



D'Addario Planet Waves 1/4" Male-to-Spade Lug Premium Speaker Cable | Musician's Friend

believe what you will but there's slight more difference, a better clearer signal!

For tubes look up Marty Strat on here!


----------



## Penguinchit

I'm in the group that doesn't believe we can hear a difference in speaker cables or gold plated connectors unless it's a difference in a super poor quality cable or lots of corrosion. A quality difference might be slightly visible on a scope but to our hearing, it's negligible. My background for that belief is all of the abuse I gave my ears during my car audio sales & installation days. Gold plated meant less corrosion in a door panel. Hooking up the leads to a scope and using an audio test disc revealed nothing. It's all so the man can rake us over a few more dollars.


----------



## ken361

Some people just cant pickup on that,like preamp tube some dont hear it or feel it. Was worth the 16.00 up grade. I bought it for my old blues deluxe 2 years ago, I tested it a couple times loud. I hit the Bogner red with the amp cranked with the old cable it was a little muddy and a little fizzy on the top end. Then the new cable I felt right away it handled the distortion better and smoother and the top end was clearer. Cant hurt to try it huh? Buy the lamp cable and some decent connectors


----------



## rjohns1

C'mon Ken, enough with this speaker cable nonsense. I am as must a tone chaser as the next guy. Low level cable? I'm with you. Lots of differences out there. But the gauge of wire used in the stock speaker cable is more than adequate. It could run 250 watts no problem, wouldn't even break a sweat. Capacitance of the wire does not factor into this at all, it is fully amplified, there is nothing to amplify the noise picked up by the cable. If you want to waste your money on this nonsense, fine. But please stop trying to convince others that the speaker cable is a needed upgrade, because science proves you are wrong about this. Please stop.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Yes, agreed, if you can " pick up on this " it is a placebo effect because the stock cable "looks cheap". It has nothing to do with what you hear. "It handled the distortion better and smoother"? As rj mentions, there is nothing to further amplify noise or degrade signal once it hits there!!
Long high power speaker draws for PA will lose much of the power to heating up the cable and plugs on skinny cable but still not really affecting the output tonally, only power. You can believe it but physics works so I'm with rj, please stop telling people this. Preamp tubes are a different story.


----------



## ken361

I will stop, but dont knock it because you didnt try it!!


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Sigh... I didn't try it because it's unnecessary and pointless. I can run speaker line out to a different cabinet and it will matter not which cable I use, it will sound the same. No difference between that amplified signal and a stereo system. I can run oversized speaker wire (120 watts per side) or thinner gauge wire and there is no difference sonically. Put it on an oscilloscope, it will show nothing.
BTW, my 100 watt Marshall amps have the same cable type they are fine!


----------



## Micky

We tried this back in 1972. It took about 15KW to make 22 gauge wire heat up a little.

Same principles hold true today.

22-24 gauge wire will yield the same result (no signal loss) as 12 gauge wire.
Also no difference between gold wire, tin wire, and copper wire.


----------



## ken361

Does speaker wire affect the sound? | Ohm Speakers | Custom Audiophile Speakers for Music & Home Theater


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## Jethro Rocker

And that link shows "if your run is less than 15 feet; standard 16- or 18-gauge lamp (zip) cord from a hardware store is fine" talking about home audio which is usually more than 40 watts. The article is also from a place selling speaker wire etc...


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## frankyfal

I wonder if Oyvn is finished reading this whole thread yet?


----------



## rjohns1

Ken, the part that you think is cheap about the wire has no effect on sound. The copper inside that cable is the same copper in that "better" wire you have. The plastic molded connector has the same metal connector inside that plastic, and plastic has NO bearing on sound, especially in a speaker cable. 
If you were unplugging and re plugging in that cable twice a day, every day on tour, yes, get the better cable. this cable would not hold up to constant meddling. But if it just sits there, it's fine. 
In reference to the audiophile article, I've been there, done that. I used to sell audio equipment. Most of the cable stuff is bull****. Line signal is driven, and low impedance, those fancy RCA cables don't do a thing but look pretty. They sit on a shelf behind your components, not on tour day in and day out plugged and unplugged. No need for it. 
Guitar cables are a different ball game. The signal coming out of a guitar is super low, and signal to noise is lower, due to the weak signal. in addition, the capacitance of the cable combines with the coil of the pickup to produce a low pass filter. It is electronics 101, simple stuff. The lower capacitance, the higher the frequency cutoff of the low pass filter. Low capacitance cable is more expensive. It is not smoke and mirrors here, it is a real, measurable, calculable thing.


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## rjohns1

The biggest kicker here in that article, is that the guy uses non scientific measurments. In other words, bull****. Show me the spectrum analyzer that shows that there is more "Low End", and "Smoother Highs". Show me data that I can read out in numbers. Blind tests don't measure anything.


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## ken361

All good! does seem if your running over 50 feet to your cabs there some loss there from what I read


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Absolutely! 50 feet...not 2 feet. Also, we are talking some signal loss which is converted to heat, long runs, high output. Don't sweat this small stuff! Crank it a bit and play!!


----------



## rjohns1

Not as much as you would think. Here is a calculator on resistance of wire by the foot:

https://www.cirris.com/learning-center/calculators/133-wire-resistance-calculator-table

16 gauge at 50 feet came out to be .2 ohms. 

In terms of electricity, that is negligible.


----------



## rjohns1

And anyway, if it was true, and if it was safe for my amp, I would choose the speaker cable that transmitted the least signal, it would be a cheap power soak, and I could push the tubes harder for better tone.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

rjohns1 said:


> Not as much as you would think. Here is a calculator on resistance of wire by the foot:
> 
> https://www.cirris.com/learning-center/calculators/133-wire-resistance-calculator-table
> 
> 16 gauge at 50 feet came out to be .2 ohms.
> 
> In terms of electricity, that is negligible.



Cool calculator. We used to have the odd warm plug with sh**ty wire running 100 feet.


----------



## PerfectTommy

Hello everyone. Need some help/advice.... Ive had my DSL40 since December absolutely love it. Purchased new from Sweetwater with the upgraded Celestion Creamback speaker.

On to my problem.. Recently moved my amp from my room to store for a couple of days while we did some remodeling. Moved it back, turned it on, set to half power, and when I turned the standby off this incredibly annoying hum was experienced. I had been playing at full power, because it just sounds awesome.... When i switched back to full power the hum essentially went away. 

Fast forward a couple of days and when I turned the amp on to play, I started getting these intermittent, very loud "popping" sounds. Today I had some time to mess with with it and i checked out the tubes, swapped a preamp tube to see if that was the culprit.... It wasn't... So with the amp on i tapped on the power tubes. Tapped on the first one.. nothing.... tapped on the second and "POP!!". Reproduced the popping sound.. From that i surmise i have found the culprit. 

One questions is, is there any chance there is something going on in the amp to cause the tube to fail or is it more likely the tube just went bad. I'm very careful about moving it as well as allowing to warm up prior to playing. Interesting note regarding the current tubes as they are TAD's.. didn't realize that was the case until i pulled them. My understanding is TAD's are of high quality. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.. 

Second question.... Early in the thread there was a lot of good discussion regarding tubes. I recall a set of TAD EL-34B-STR were tested and fairly well recieved. Are these still believed to be quality tubes, while producing a great sound? What are some other tubes that are generally highly regarded?

Third question.... When i purchase a matched set, are they considered "drop-ins" or in all cases should the biasing step be performed?

Thanks, I appreciate any help!!


----------



## rjohns1

Tommy, first off , welcome to the forum. Modern tubes are just not as good as the ones from back in the day. It is very possible that your power tube is bad, without anything else being wrong with your amp. I would not power on that thing with that tube in it anymore, if it shorts out it could do damage. I would pickup a matched set of tubes, put them in, and bias them. You will then have a solid foundation to trouble shoot from. When a power tube fails, it is sometimes catastrophic. I think Micky spelled out how to bias the amp earlier in the thread, and he will chime in soon. Get those tubes, and if need be, we will help you troubleshoot further here. There are a bunch of great guys here on the forum that love to help.


----------



## oyvn

frankyfal said:


> I wonder if Oyvn is finished reading this whole thread yet?



read about 50 pages and drank about equal amount sipps of coffe looking for bias guide before i just maned up and tryed. I sat bias little over 36mV. (I learned today that the recomended is 38mV. maybe ill fix it later)

BUT the hum was gone after i rebiased. One tube was way of. When i turned it down the hum was gone. I took the amp to the practise room and i LOVE it Now im a happy marshall owner


----------



## rjohns1

36mv is fine. If it sounds good, I would leave it.


----------



## Micky

oyvn said:


> read about 50 pages and drank about equal amount sipps of coffe looking for bias guide before i just maned up and tryed. I sat bias little over 36mV. (I learned today that the recomended is 38mV. maybe ill fix it later)
> 
> BUT the hum was gone after i rebiased. One tube was way of. When i turned it down the hum was gone. I took the amp to the practise room and i LOVE it Now im a happy marshall owner



Now tell me truthfully, isn't that much more satisfying then just having us tell you what to do without any other background on the subject?

You are starting to make a bunch of old farts very proud...

And bias range is from 30-40. Nobody sez it HAS to be 38...


----------



## Micky

PerfectTommy said:


> One questions is, is there any chance there is something going on in the amp to cause the tube to fail or is it more likely the tube just went bad. I'm very careful about moving it as well as allowing to warm up prior to playing. Interesting note regarding the current tubes as they are TAD's.. didn't realize that was the case until i pulled them. My understanding is TAD's are of high quality. Someone correct me if I'm wrong..
> 
> Second question.... Early in the thread there was a lot of good discussion regarding tubes. I recall a set of TAD EL-34B-STR were tested and fairly well recieved. Are these still believed to be quality tubes, while producing a great sound? What are some other tubes that are generally highly regarded?
> 
> Third question.... When i purchase a matched set, are they considered "drop-ins" or in all cases should the biasing step be performed?
> 
> Thanks, I appreciate any help!!



It is likely that the tube just went bad. Get a new set and re-bias.
The TAD's are very good, but others like JJ's, as well as Tung-Sol and Telefunken all have good reviews.
And yes, any time you replace final power tubes you should rebias.

It is a good habit to get into for a well-maintained Marshall.


----------



## jerster

Hello, 

I'm new here. Been a long time lurker and finally the DSL40C motivated me to join the forum. The amp Sounded great in the store with a HSS Strat. brought it home and played some more after a while the ear fatigue set in and that harsh brightness is all I could hear. Tried a V30, Scumback m and h, G12T-75, a WGS Veteran 30, and believe it or not a Jensen C12K, and lastly a 4x12 with a V30 - G12H Anniversary mix to try and tame. Some improved the tone but still that fatiguing high midrange was there. Anyway did the C19 mod and replaced the original cap with a 240 pf cap. Tried none, and several other values with alligator clips and decided 240pf kept enough of the harmonic richness but allowed me to use the lower gain settings on the red channel with out the harsh overtones ( I don't go past 5 typically), Right now I've decided the Scum M sounds good, (so did the Jensen & the WGS Vet). I will probably keep rotating them until I find the one for the combo cab. The 4X12 1960A w V30/G12H sounds freaking amazing with the DSL40C 

ok sorry for being long winded, I'm getting to my question. I have had the JCM200 50 watt DSL head for a long time. It is a great amp but I've always needed a boost in front get the enough gain for leads and an eq in the loop to get the articulation. When I play the new DSL combo and it has a ton of gain, articulation and is very aggressive. I can fly on the DSL40C compared to the JCM2000. I've been reading a bunch of threads to try and under stand the difference in the new circuit. Most of what I have read is they are very similar. Has any one isolated how Marshall increased the gain and clarity of this new amp over the older JCM 2000 series. I've looked at the Joey voltage mods and they seem to address how to change the cap filtering to maybe get more clarity/reduce harshness but what about boosting the gain for Lead 1 on the ultra channel. I don't use the lead 2 on the JCM2000 its to over the tops being 40+ I'm more of a classic rock -80's kind of guy.
By-the-way I've built a few amps (I'm mostly a amp assembler but have picked up a thing or two from a design/theory perspective). Feel free to get semi technical and I'll try and keep up. Also if anyone has a copy of the schematic for the DSL40C I'd love to stare and compare with the one I have on the JCM 2000 DSL 50. Thanks in advance,


----------



## rlowe

If you are referring to touching the end of your guitar cable (plug)? plugged in your guitar then you might not be grounded, or as they say you are the ground. Check to make sure your outlet is grounded!


----------



## rlowe

oyvn said:


> Just picked up my dsl40c today!  Testing it now. I also has some hiss when i turn up the volume or gain but i guess its the guitar becuse when i hold my finger on the plughead (connectet to my guitar) the hiss is almost gone. Is it a fix for that?
> 
> One more question: If i want to check the bias settings. How do i find the test points? I never biased a tubeamp before. Need backup! I took of the backplate but i was unsure what the next step was. The 4 top bolts next? Bias should be 36MV?


 
If you are referring to touching the end of your guitar cable (plug)? plugged in your guitar then you might not be grounded, or as they say you are the ground. Check to make sure your outlet is grounded!


----------



## oyvn

rlowe: Yes i found out that the outlets ground was not good. Tryed next room and it was good. I also fixed the hum issue by rebiasing.


----------



## Micky

Everyone should have one of these handy little devices in their kit:


----------



## ken361

I just found out after 7 years one side of the basement wasn't grounded! Got a power strip and the ground light wasn't on! so now I ran the my amp were the computer is plugged in,when I record the tones are much better then before they were bright and that and less hum.


----------



## Bownse

Intro time. 


Been lurking for a long time (when this thread was only 2 pages long). I was researching the DSL40C for quite a while until I pulled the trigger. Beats my old entry-level Peavey 6 ways from Sunday. 


Used it for a while in stock form until the brightness was no longer bearable. Did the C19 cap mod (lifting one leg only for now) and am really pleased with how it turned out. Seems to have much more guts at the levels I play (half power mode and not blasting even then). 


No gigs yet. It's been many years since those days and I'm just getting back into playing after setting down my bass (yeah, I know, that's not really playing) when I got married. 


Did drums/percussion, then bass (using a Fender Bassmaster 100 "Silverface" piggyback amp head and 4x12 cabinet). Was in a few playing bands. Earned a spot in some honky tonk band after trying out but couldn't force myself to make that compromise. Then mixed sound for a few local bands. 


Then I got married... had kids... now grand kids... 


Clambering back up the sand pile of re-learning everything my head tells me I should know but my hands remind me I don't. 


Anyway... back on topic. Thanks to all the contributors to this thread. Talk about a wealth of knowledge!


----------



## Bownse

ken361 said:


> I just found out after 7 years one side of the basement wasn't grounded! Got a power strip and the ground light wasn't on! so now I ran the my amp were the computer is plugged in,when I record the tones are much better then before they were bright and that and less hum.



Now go get the circuit fixed before something gets ruined. 

Probably just the ground/neutral back at the panel (electrician's helper for a few years while gigging).


----------



## Micky

Bownse said:


> Intro time.
> 
> 
> Been lurking for a long time (when this thread was only 2 pages long). I was researching the DSL40C for quite a while until I pulled the trigger. Beats my old entry-level Peavey 6 ways from Sunday.
> 
> 
> Used it for a while in stock form until the brightness was no longer bearable. Did the C19 cap mod (lifting one leg only for now) and am really pleased with how it turned out. Seems to have much more guts at the levels I play (half power mode and not blasting even then).
> 
> 
> No gigs yet. It's been many years since those days and I'm just getting back into playing after setting down my bass (yeah, I know, that's not really playing) when I got married.
> 
> 
> Did drums/percussion, then bass. Was in a few playing bands. Earned a spot in some honky tonk band after trying out but couldn't force myself to make that compromise. Then mixed sound for a few local bands.
> 
> 
> Then I got married... had kids... now grand kids...
> 
> 
> Clambering back up the sand pile of re-learning everything my head tells me I should know but my hands remind me I don't.
> 
> 
> Anyway... back on topic. Thanks to all the contributors to this thread. Talk about a wealth of knowledge!


This is the type of post new members should put in the Introduce Yourself section. Many members do not enter this thread, and to be fair, I think it is a good idea for all new members to introduce themselves there so that we ALL can get a proper chance to say hello!


----------



## frankyfal

oyvn said:


> read about 50 pages and drank about equal amount sipps of coffe looking for bias guide before i just maned up and tryed. I sat bias little over 36mV. (I learned today that the recomended is 38mV. maybe ill fix it later)
> 
> BUT the hum was gone after i rebiased. One tube was way of. When i turned it down the hum was gone. I took the amp to the practise room and i LOVE it Now im a happy marshall owner



I never opened up an amp till I had the dsl40c and came here. I now have no issue cracking open any amp, checking biases and replacing tubes. Just be careful of the high voltage. I bought a Egnator tweaker 40 and I had it 6 hours before I had her open checking the bias in hope that was the headroom issue.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Micky said:


> Now tell me truthfully, isn't that much more satisfying then just having us tell you what to do without any other background on the subject?
> 
> You are starting to make a bunch of old farts very proud...
> 
> And bias range is from 30-40. Nobody sez it HAS to be 38...



This should be a sticky! Yes, bias is important and you need to figure out what it should be. But the important thing is not to go too high or too low, after that, it's about what sounds good to you!! Too much cork sniffing ruins the fun. Oh, oh I got 38.2. Who cares? Set it between where it sounds good like Micky says and go!!


----------



## rlowe

ken361 said:


> I just found out after 7 years one side of the basement wasn't grounded! Got a power strip and the ground light wasn't on! so now I ran the my amp were the computer is plugged in,when I record the tones are much better then before they were bright and that and less hum.


 Many older houses 2 prong outlet would only ground certain outlets: fridge, washer, main room, varied. I only found out recently after humms..and testing outlets that certain rooms were not grounded! Newer homes should by code be wired more efficiently. Safety and amp longevity you bet!


----------



## ken361

Just downstairs I believe wasn't because we needed a new washer and they had to rewired the outlets


----------



## jim5000

I picked up one of these amps online 2 weeks ago and am loving it. I play in a classic rock cover band and have been using a Fender Hotrod Deluxe III for the past two years. The Fender is a really nice amp but you can only get 'classic' classic rock tones, the sort of sounds Overdrive on the clean\crunch channel gives. The Marshall is much more punchy, tight, and has a far greater range of tones suitable for the type of music I love to play.

The only downside so far is I can't get my MXR Distortion+ pedal to sound good with it. The Distortion+ is basically a tube screamer and when I kicked it on the Hotrod (wired through the effects loop) it gave an amazing singing tone that really jumped out of the mix and was awesome for solos.

On the Marshall, no matter how I connect it, all I can get the pedal to do is give a volume boost when the output knob is cranked to 9-10. I think because the Marshall is already 'overdriven' to get the heavier sounds this pedal doesn't actually add anything to it, whereas it really gave a kick in the balls to the Fender and made it sing.

What kind of pedal should I be looking at to give me a nice boost for solos on the Marshall? Because of the way the channel selection is configured on the pedal, switching channel for the solo's isn't always going be an option as depending on the song we do I could be on any of the channels and not be able to switch to the appropriate one.


----------



## rlowe

ken361 said:


> Just downstairs I believe wasn't because we needed a new washer and they had to rewired the outlets


Hope everything worked out! Electricians can be a little expensive


----------



## Jethro Rocker

jim5000 said:


> I picked up one of these amps online 2 weeks ago and am loving it. I play in a classic rock cover band and have been using a Fender Hotrod Deluxe III for the past two years. The Fender is a really nice amp but you can only get 'classic' classic rock tones, the sort of sounds Overdrive on the clean\crunch channel gives. The Marshall is much more punchy, tight, and has a far greater range of tones suitable for the type of music I love to play.
> 
> The only downside so far is I can't get my MXR Distortion+ pedal to sound good with it. The Distortion+ is basically a tube screamer and when I kicked it on the Hotrod (wired through the effects loop) it gave an amazing singing tone that really jumped out of the mix and was awesome for solos.
> 
> On the Marshall, no matter how I connect it, all I can get the pedal to do is give a volume boost when the output knob is cranked to 9-10. I think because the Marshall is already 'overdriven' to get the heavier sounds this pedal doesn't actually add anything to it, whereas it really gave a kick in the balls to the Fender and made it sing.
> 
> What kind of pedal should I be looking at to give me a nice boost for solos on the Marshall? Because of the way the channel selection is configured on the pedal, switching channel for the solo's isn't always going be an option as depending on the song we do I could be on any of the channels and not be able to switch to the appropriate one.


A couple of things - could try a clean boost or EQ in the loop rather than a distortion. I run an OD up front, use green channel in crunch mode. Turn off pedal for cleaner or crunch tones, pedal on (volume up, gain off on pedal) for hard rock tones, switch channels for leads, even run an EQ in loop with that. Very versatile! I prefer the tone of boosting the front end, lots of leeway as well.


----------



## USAPatriot

USAPatriot said:


>



I gotta say, I think I struck gold. I played the DSL40C with the stock power tubes for quite awhile after I got the amp and it was good. Not great, but good.
The other day I added these EH preamp tubes and now I have a completely different amp. I've been doing this awhile and usually when I do preamp tube swaps the changes tend to be subtle, or if not-subtle, then maybe not so good.
I put the 12AX7EH's in V2 and V3 and put the 12AT7EH in the V4/PI slot.

*HOLY BATSNOT!*

The amp came totally alive, particularly on the high notes where at lower volumes it's often difficult to get a decent tone out of it. The amp is singing, zinging and has some excellent punch to it. I didn't change any settings other than running the bias 1mv higher on the power tubes and switching back to triode mode. I'm still on Red2 with my gain at 6 and the attenuator almost dimed and the volume around 8. My guitar is set at 8 on the neck pickup with the tone about 6. I've used the EH power tubes for a long time in many amps but this was the first time I've tried their preamp tubes.
I'm going to buy more just so I have spares. I cannot imagine going back to the Marshalls, tungsols or JJ's. They have nothing on these EH's. FWIW. -ROd-


----------



## USAPatriot

rlowe said:


> Many older houses 2 prong outlet would only ground certain outlets: fridge, washer, main room, varied. I only found out recently after humms..and testing outlets that certain rooms were not grounded! Newer homes should by code be wired more efficiently. Safety and amp longevity you bet!



Code or no code, put in a dedicated ground wire if you can. Our house burned down in 2011 and during the redesign I had them run a 12ga solid core wire into the music room from outside. I pounded a steel rod into the ground near our AC unit and attached it there. The other end is attached to the jack of my MXR-108 that's running in the loop. It works, but not perfectly. All of our outlets test good with a GFI plug tester so according to "code" the house ground is just fine. Yet I can get a noise reduction in my amp by grabbing the wire or my guitar jack. It seems like I'm a better ground than the house or the wire. We've had plenty of rain so it's not a matter of the ground being dry.
I wish I knew the secret to the perfect ground...I suppose turning off the ceiling fan and not running the AC fan 24/7 would help  -Rod-


----------



## USAPatriot

Marshalldog,

Since I added all 3 preamp tubes at once, I don't know how much of a difference the 12AT7 made in the PI slot, but I'll make a point of swapping it out with a Tungsol and a Marshall this weekend and will let you know what I think about it. -Rod-


----------



## ken361

EH are decent! I used them in the JVM when I had it for the v3 v4 smooth. Slyvania long plate I use in the PI its smooth and warm. Those stock JJ I never did care for in any amp I owned I would just pull them out right away Like I said in other post Marshalls love old stock tubes!


----------



## USAPatriot

ken361 said:


> EH are decent! I used them in the JVM when I had it for the v3 v4 smooth. Slyvania long plate I use in the PI its smooth and warm. Those stock JJ I never did care for in any amp I owned I would just pull them out right away Like I said in other post Marshalls love old stock tubes!



I'm on a low budget...make that a no budget...so NOS tubes are out for me, though I'd like to try someday.
I like the JJ's where they belong, in Fender amps. They do help in most amps but I've never been wild about them...not a go-to tube in my book. I'm not even sure what "warmer" is really defining. A little less trebly and little better bass, maybe. The opposite of Tungsols or China's I guess. I used to keep some old GT's around but accidentally sold them off when I got rid of my first JCA22H. At any rate, I'm happy with the EH's. My noise level has dropped significantly after swapping the 6CA7's out for the Marshalls. -Rod-


----------



## ken361

Wonder how the new Mullard short plate is?


----------



## Jethro Rocker

NOS Mullard is awesome! Rod, you can find OS GE or RCA for 20 - 25 bucks, not a far cry from CP tubes.


----------



## rlowe

USAPatriot said:


> Code or no code, put in a dedicated ground wire if you can. Our house burned down in 2011 and during the redesign I had them run a 12ga solid core wire into the music room from outside. I pounded a steel rod into the ground near our AC unit and attached it there. The other end is attached to the jack of my MXR-108 that's running in the loop. It works, but not perfectly. All of our outlets test good with a GFI plug tester so according to "code" the house ground is just fine. Yet I can get a noise reduction in my amp by grabbing the wire or my guitar jack. It seems like I'm a better ground than the house or the wire. We've had plenty of rain so it's not a matter of the ground being dry.
> I wish I knew the secret to the perfect ground...I suppose turning off the ceiling fan and not running the AC fan 24/7 would help  -Rod-


A proper ground is essential. I play in one room the amp buzzes louder and I use my hand on strings as you said to deaden buzz (no ground). I play in another where I know their is ground small buzz and no need to muff strings. I plan on pounding a rod outside a couple of rooms and drilling to correct this!


----------



## PtTimeRckr

jim5000 said:


> The only downside so far is I can't get my MXR Distortion+ pedal to sound good with it. The Distortion+ is basically a tube screamer and when I kicked it on the Hotrod (wired through the effects loop) it gave an amazing singing tone that really jumped out of the mix and was awesome for solos.



Also, try running the pedal through the front instead of in the effects loop. Some like that position better.


----------



## dave999z

USAPatriot said:


> Code or no code, put in a dedicated ground wire if you can. Our house burned down in 2011 and during the redesign I had them run a 12ga solid core wire into the music room from outside. I pounded a steel rod into the ground near our AC unit and attached it there. The other end is attached to the jack of my MXR-108 that's running in the loop. It works, but not perfectly. All of our outlets test good with a GFI plug tester so according to "code" the house ground is just fine. Yet I can get a noise reduction in my amp by grabbing the wire or my guitar jack. It seems like I'm a better ground than the house or the wire. We've had plenty of rain so it's not a matter of the ground being dry.
> I wish I knew the secret to the perfect ground...I suppose turning off the ceiling fan and not running the AC fan 24/7 would help  -Rod-



If you have dimmer controls on any of your lights, try switching those off & see if it kills some of the noise.


----------



## USAPatriot

rlowe said:


> A proper ground is essential. I play in one room the amp buzzes louder and I use my hand on strings as you said to deaden buzz (no ground). I play in another where I know their is ground small buzz and no need to muff strings. I plan on pounding a rod outside a couple of rooms and drilling to correct this!



Oh definitely. I found out this evening that the microwave downstairs is affecting my tone. Two things of interest are it's (1) not on the same circuit as my amp and (2) it brings the noise level down a bit, which is strange and inexplicable. It's also changes my tone slightly, making it a little more mid-range with a slight buzz. Also of interest is that if the wife turns the oven on, it trips the breaker my music room is on, yet they are not, as I said, on the same circuit. Obviously something is amiss there. I was thinking of adding a larger breaker but rethought that, figuring it's better to lose power than have a surge, even though I have dual protection against them. I suspect that whatever is causing this situation is also somewhat the cause of my extraneous noise. I have an overhead fan running plus the A/C's squirrel cage runs 24/7, but I don't think they account for all of the noise either. I expect some noise from the gain setting, just maybe not this much.



dave999z said:


> If you have dimmer controls on any of your lights, try switching those off & see if it kills some of the noise.



No dimmer switches, but as you can see above, I have plenty of other things going on.
Our house is up to code..according to the city...which is a joke. I saw one of the electrical inspections while the house was being rebuilt. The "inspector" walked in and was gone in 5 minutes. He checked to make sure each circuit had a GFI plug somewhere in the circuit, the fuses were the proper size, and was totally pissed off that someone hadn't put a cover over one of the wall sockets, which means he had to come back. At no time did he actually look at wiring, run any tests, nothing. If he had, MAYBE my upstairs bedroom and bathroom breaker wouldn't trip when the oven is turned on...with them being on different circuits and different breakers. I've had my amp on and warming up (always in standby!!!) and gone upstairs to find the lights out and the amp dark. Maybe I should swap that set of wires with a set from somewhere else in the house with equal current draw. Maybe that will solve a couple of problems. -Rod-


----------



## Bownse

Any load can travel back through the panel.


Motors are the worst. AC, refrigerator compressor, etc (microwave) can shoot a spike back through the house. If it's a big enough spike (large motor) can move out to nearby houses (or from them to you).


Proper grounding can help as can UPSs on critical equipment (home entertainment, computers, amps(?), etc. 


Once I put some decent (1500 watts) UPSs on my home entertainment center and my computer I learned that power sags were hitting any time the AC kicked on. That on opposite sides of the house. After 3 replacement hard drives on my DVR I had no more problems once the UPS was in place.


AC data loggers can help you get a grip on what's happening in your environment. They aren't always cheap but can sometimes be rented for a week or two. A quick google came up with these (but others are out there). 


Power Monitoring Data Loggers - Power Profiling and Monitors


AC Voltage, Current and Power Data Loggers | CAS


----------



## crisis

crisis said:


> Yeah correct. It turns on. I did find that other fuse after I posted but it gets power, just no output. I have contacted the store and asked them for the details for the company that handles the service side of things. See how it goes. Thanks for all your input.


 Still waiting to get the amp back but it turns out it was a dodgy pre amp tube. I asked the guy at the service centre if they had many problems with these amps being made in Asia. He said the main issues were tubes because they were transported all around the world. Tubes are pretty delicate. It may be worth taking into account as I see many people here recommending modifications to “improve” the sound. Personally I am glad I didn’t f#ck around with mine and I would suggest caution with cutting resistors etc until the amp was out of warranty. I actually think it sounds pretty good as is but am waiting to light it up with the band to see how that goes before making any rash judgments.


----------



## riefil

Bownse said:


> Any load can travel back through the panel.
> 
> 
> Motors are the worst. AC, refrigerator compressor, etc (microwave) can shoot a spike back through the house. If it's a big enough spike (large motor) can move out to nearby houses (or from them to you).
> 
> 
> Proper grounding can help as can UPSs on critical equipment (home entertainment, computers, amps(?), etc.
> 
> 
> Once I put some decent (1500 watts) UPSs on my home entertainment center and my computer I learned that power sags were hitting any time the AC kicked on. That on opposite sides of the house. After 3 replacement hard drives on my DVR I had no more problems once the UPS was in place.
> 
> 
> AC data loggers can help you get a grip on what's happening in your environment. They aren't always cheap but can sometimes be rented for a week or two. A quick google came up with these (but others are out there).
> 
> 
> Power Monitoring Data Loggers - Power Profiling and Monitors
> 
> 
> AC Voltage, Current and Power Data Loggers | CAS




I remember years ago when I lived at home, my amp in my upstairs bedroom was affected by a dimmer switch in the dining room. The dining room was on the opposite end of the house, on the 1st floor. Used to drive me nuts before I figured it out.

Phil


----------



## Micky

Well, I finished up the 6550 conversion tonite.

3 resistors did the trick, in addition to new tube holders.

R106 originally 15K change to 12K (or piggyback 10K)
R79 & R81 originally 220K change to 150K (or piggyback 82K)

I set the bias at 50 and played a while (30-45 minutes or so) and it drifted up to 53 on both sides. I set it back at 50 and it remained stable. 

Cleans are to die for. Really makes the reverb noticeable. They are just OMG clean, but the volume is considerably low in comparison to the Ultra Channel. Turning up the gain on the Classic Channel a bit in Clean mode adds a bit of depth and makes the reverb even more noticeable. Crunch mode adds some of the volume back in, but the gain is the real key here, as it adds another dimension to the tone. Awesome is the only thing I can think of, it is still my favorite mode/channel.

The Ultra Channel was a complete surprise. Now I know what metalheads like about 6550's. Loud, articulate and defined are the words to dsescribe Ultra I. Definitely more gain than I need, and turned waaaaaay down sounded really cool. On a whim I turned it up to where it started to squeal uncontrollably, and backed it off a bit. Talk about loud! My wife came screaming at me from the other room, and I actually could not hear what she was saying. After I turned it down she said the dog peed in the hallway and then hid behind the couch. I took the hint...

I was afraid to try Ultra II...

So I buttoned it up, took it back downstairs and cleaned up the kitchen table a bit.

Headed out tomorrow to see our grandkids for a couple days. so I won't get a chance to try it out further until next weekend. Eventually I will pull it back apart to take more measurements, but for now I am extremely pleased with how it has turned out.

Rod, I owe you one. Or two..


----------



## solarburn

Micky said:


> Well, I finished up the 6550 conversion tonite.
> 
> 3 resistors did the trick, in addition to new tube holders.
> 
> R106 originally 15K change to 12K (or piggyback 10K)
> R79 & R81 originally 220K change to 150K (or piggyback 82K)
> 
> I set the bias at 50 and played a while (30-45 minutes or so) and it drifted up to 53 on both sides. I set it back at 50 and it remained stable.
> 
> Cleans are to die for. Really makes the reverb noticeable. They are just OMG clean, but the volume is considerably low in comparison to the Ultra Channel. Turning up the gain on the Classic Channel a bit in Clean mode adds a bit of depth and makes the reverb even more noticeable. Crunch mode adds some of the volume back in, but the gain is the real key here, as it adds another dimension to the tone. Awesome is the only thing I can think of, it is still my favorite mode/channel.
> 
> The Ultra Channel was a complete surprise. Now I know what metalheads like about 6550's. Loud, articulate and defined are the words to dsescribe Ultra I. Definitely more gain than I need, and turned waaaaaay down sounded really cool. On a whim I turned it up to where it started to squeal uncontrollably, and backed it off a bit. Talk about loud! My wife came screaming at me from the other room, and I actually could not hear what she was saying. After I turned it down she said the dog peed in the hallway and then hid behind the couch. I took the hint...
> 
> I was afraid to try Ultra II...
> 
> So I buttoned it up, took it back downstairs and cleaned up the kitchen table a bit.
> 
> Headed out tomorrow to see our grandkids for a couple days. so I won't get a chance to try it out further until next weekend. Eventually I will pull it back apart to take more measurements, but for now I am extremely pleased with how it has turned out.
> 
> Rod, I owe you one. Or two..



Very cool Micky. After reading this I may pop some in my 1990- I. It auto biases so I don't need to change anything. I have never used 6550's in anything. Sounds like it may be fun.

Congrats on the bias mod. Look forward to hearing more when you get time to play them.


----------



## Micky

I forgot to mention that I tried 1/2 power mode (triode) and it worked fine.

One thing I did notice however was that the clean headroom was almost gone. Nil. Nothing. Gain at about 1 and things were getting gritty already, whereas on full power mode (pentode) there was gobs of clean headroom. The bias did not change between modes, and yes, I put it on standby to switch between half-power and full-power.

Just as well, I can get the volume down on full-power mode on Classic Clean enough to be comfortable, I haven't had a chance to put the new Boss OD-1x on it yet but I am sure the cleans can get boosted cleanly with that.

What I am unsure about though is the power output. I would estimate somewhere between 60-80 watts, but I don't dare measure it. I hope the Man-O-War can handle it...


----------



## solarburn

I never thought about the wattage increasing. All of a sudden you have to watch speaker capability haha. I have to watch my 412 GB's cab with my Plexi's and Bugahgah's. I do push the limit...ask my ears. Having mine in a bedroom helps me self limit volume too. The neighbors would tell you I don't know how to self limit though. They let me rip when I want.

Still cool beans. I'm definitely going to try some 6550's...just to see how they feel too. 

Disclaimer-Not in my DSL though.


----------



## mickeydg5

Micky said:


> What I am unsure about though is the power output. I would estimate somewhere between 60-80 watts, but I don't dare measure it. I hope the Man-O-War can handle it...


 This would be interesting.
Are you saying 60-80 watts output at maximum?
About 70 wats is what I would figure the EL34 tubes put out as well.


----------



## 60Cycle

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I never thought about the wattage increasing. All of a sudden you have to watch speaker capability haha. I have to watch my 412 GB's cab with my Plexi's and Bugahgah's. I do push the limit...ask my ears. Having mine in a bedroom helps me self limit volume too. The neighbors would tell you I don't know how to self limit though. They let me rip when I want.
> 
> Still cool beans. I'm definitely going to try some 6550's...just to see how they feel too.
> 
> Disclaimer-Not in my DSL though.




Ive tried other tubes in my AFD100. So long as I own it theres gonna be 6550's in it. Nothing does it for me like they do, all though I do have some other combinations to try out. I mean I could pick 4 different tubes and run in it but it just screams with the 6550's in it.


----------



## solarburn

60Cycle said:


> Ive tried other tubes in my AFD100. So long as I own it theres gonna be 6550's in it. Nothing does it for me like they do, all though I do have some other combinations to try out. I mean I could pick 4 different tubes and run in it but it just screams with the 6550's in it.



Yeah I can run all different tubes in my Infiniums too. Jus don't have any 6550's on hand. Have 34's and 6CA7's. Need to try 6L6's as well.

Good to hear they get your motor running. I'll find out sooner or later. I'm intrigued.


----------



## Rahlstin

Tonight Im trying out a set of KT77's just for the hell of it


----------



## JEB

Rahlstin said:


> Tonight Im trying out a set of KT77's just for the hell of it



I've been running gold lion kt77s in mine for about a year now. I like it.


----------



## Micky

Rahlstin said:


> Tonight Im trying out a set of KT77's just for the hell of it



I wanted to try some KT77's, but some 6650's fell into my lap...


----------



## USAPatriot

WTG there, Micky!
I emailed the mod to myself just so I won't have to search for it in the future.
If it's still working in triode mode, then there's something about that circuit that goes beyond what we think it does. Or how it does it. According to the 6550 datasheet it shouldn't be working in half power mode since the wiring isn't there. Half a tube can't work if that half doesn't exist, at least that's how I read it.
Anyhow good job  Glad you're happy with it  -Rod-


----------



## 60Cycle

Micky said:


> I wanted to try some KT77's, but some 6650's fell into my lap...




Would the bias range stay the same going to the 77's? Im back to four Tungsols in the preamp after I biased it and its sounding pretty sweet. But I think I might take the bias colder to use it at lower volume. Since I have some 77's I might as well try em out when I pull it apart.


----------



## Micky

The original EL34 bias range should be fine for KT77's
They are a drop-in replacement.


----------



## Rahlstin

Range isn't an issue.


----------



## Rahlstin

Ok, So I tried the JJ KT77's tonight. Awesome. Hard to descriebe but bottom end is tighter and everything else is very well balanced. I also put in three old GE 12AX7A's and one black long plate thing I don't know what it is but it sounded great tonight. Im pretty happy with this set of tubes so ill use em some more.


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

I found a used WGS Retro 30 so I decided to give it a shot. I'm very impressed with the results. I can finally use the Ultra channel! That's what I was looking for when I bought this amp. I don't have to rely on pedals to get the drive that I want. On Classic clean it sparkles, and on Crunch it growls just right. I'm very happy with this speaker.


----------



## ken361

This dudes got some good bluesy strat tones
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Wp_V1qwi1k


----------



## domct203

USAPatriot said:


> ............ All of our outlets test good with a GFI plug tester so according to "code" the house ground is just fine. Yet I can get a noise reduction in my amp by grabbing the wire or my guitar jack. It seems like I'm a better ground than the house or the wire...........


Actually, we are terrible grounds, and poor conductors of electricity. The reason for the noise drop is that when you grab that wire you are grounding yourself. 

Your body is however a good antenna to pick up all kinds of noise. When you grab that wire (or touch the strings on a properly grounded guitar) all that noise you are radiating into the signal goes to ground instead. 

A proper ground at the building is a must, do not rely on the utilities. 

I have an 8 foot copper rod driven into the earth at the service entrance. This is the main ground for the house. 

Dom


----------



## Len

domct203 said:


> Actually, we are terrible grounds, and poor conductors of electricity. The reason for the noise drop is that when you grab that wire you are grounding yourself.
> 
> Your body is however a good antenna to pick up all kinds of noise. When you grab that wire (or touch the strings on a properly grounded guitar) all that noise you are radiating into the signal goes to ground instead.
> 
> A proper ground at the building is a must, do not rely on the utilities.
> 
> I have an 8 foot copper rod driven into the earth at the service entrance. This is the main ground for the house.
> 
> Dom



Humans are antennas that radiate noise? I really doubt that.


----------



## domct203

Len said:


> Humans are antennas that radiate noise? I really doubt that.



So are you saying that we are magically connected to the earth, and we are a better source of ground than a rod driven into the earth?

I highly doubt that. 

We are not grounding the guitar, it grounds us when we touch the strings, or any other metal that is connected to ground. 



Dom


----------



## Len

domct203 said:


> So are you saying that we are magically connected to the earth, and we are a better source of ground than a rod driven into the earth?
> 
> I highly doubt that.
> 
> We are not grounding the guitar, it grounds us when we touch the strings, or any other metal that is connected to ground.
> 
> 
> 
> Dom



While we aren't grounded always, we don't radiate EMI. My 20+ years in the electronics industry tells me that. This is a silly debate...


----------



## Bownse

domct203 said:


> We are not grounding the guitar, it grounds us when we touch the strings, or any other metal that is connected to ground.




It would seem to depend on what else you are touching. What are the soles of your shoes made of? Are you touching something else that could ground you (other than the guitar)? That kind of thing.


----------



## MarshallDog

Rahlstin said:


> Ok, So I tried the JJ KT77's tonight. Awesome. Hard to descriebe but bottom end is tighter and everything else is very well balanced. I also put in three old GE 12AX7A's and one black long plate thing I don't know what it is but it sounded great tonight. Im pretty happy with this set of tubes so ill use em some more.



I love the KT77's in my DSL40C and Jubilee 2558. They take away that compression tone and really sound thick and sweet especially when you crank them up.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Haven't tried 77's yet. Used the 40C last night at practice, sounded so good, lower volumes. With an OD on the front, I got cleanish enough to gritty with the pedal, higher gain on crunch with pedal for blasting rhythm, and lead channel for solos. I may give him the nod for the next big show in June!!


----------



## Rahlstin

Jethro Rocker said:


> Haven't tried 77's yet. Used the 40C last night at practice, sounded so good, lower volumes. With an OD on the front, I got cleanish enough to gritty with the pedal, higher gain on crunch with pedal for blasting rhythm, and lead channel for solos. I may give him the nod for the next big show in June!!



Ive been using the 40C a lot for live and its working great.


----------



## ken361

I have to get a speaker there's warehouse classic lead that should be better then the stock for sale.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Rahlstin said:


> Ive been using the 40C a lot for live and its working great.



It's just such hard choices - 6101 with 6912 cab, TSL122, 40C, Jube... hmmm... think I'll try the 40C next time!


----------



## USAPatriot

Len said:


> Humans are antennas that radiate noise? I really doubt that.





domct203 said:


> So are you saying that we are magically connected to the earth, and we are a better source of ground than a rod driven into the earth?
> 
> I highly doubt that.
> 
> We are not grounding the guitar, it grounds us when we touch the strings, or any other metal that is connected to ground.
> 
> 
> 
> Dom



I guess there's some truth in both sides. But neither is entirely true or wrong.

We DO put off EMI. Our blood is a saline solution that happens to contain quite a bit of copper and iron. Our muscles work on conducted electrical impulses via pathways, the most well-documented of which are contained in the heart. Then there's the brain. No electrical activity = no life.

But I also know for a fact that without physical contact with the skin, we cannot detect any of these electrical impulses. The heart puts out relatively strong ones, usually in the range of 50-150mV but without 2 electrodes and a ground on the skin, along with a suitable conductive gel, we can't see those impulses powering the heart. The brain is even more difficult and yields far less information. I can see no evidence for the body acting as an antenna. If my body was "radiating" EMI then putting my hands close to the strings or close to the tubes should alter the noise of the amp. It doesn't, even in highly microphonic tubes.

We do make good grounds though. Ask anyone that's been hit by lightning. What matters from a practical perspective is what's on our feet and what's under our feet. Rubber soled shoes are pretty good insulators and therefore resist sending noise to ground when we touch the guitar. Wearing socks on a carpet? That's almost perfect. Bare feet on concrete would be better but there's the reverse problem of electrical shock in the event of a ground fault, so unwise. A carpet has a huge surface area and is usually holding a slight static charge too. I can often hear that as a series of small pops as I handle the guitar and move my feet, but it also can easily bleed off noise, like making a bucket of paint vanish into an ocean, because of it's huge surface area.

I happen to play on carpet and in my socks, so I see this phenomenon every day.

So yeah, we put off EMI but it's not radiating anywhere. We make good grounds, but what we wear (rubber soles) may not make it possible for the noise to bleed off. -Rod-


----------



## Rahlstin

Ok so 4- Tungsol preamp tubes and JJ KT77 pwr tubes are a deadly combo..nation in the 40C. It was great tone all night tonight.


----------



## 60Cycle

Rahlstin said:


> Ok so 4- Tungsol preamp tubes and JJ KT77 pwr tubes are a deadly combo..nation in the 40C. It was great tone all night tonight.



Good cause I just ordered JJ 77's enough to put in my AFD and DSL40. I love the Tung Sol in the preamp makes it usable. Going to throw in a Marshall Vintage 12 in place of the G12T for awhile. I tried a V30 in it but didn't care for it so Ill see how the Marshall version fits in. Its a 2006 with no hours on it so I want to crank it up and get it broke in while Im messing around.


----------



## MarshallDog

60Cycle said:


> Good cause I just ordered JJ 77's enough to put in my AFD and DSL40. I love the Tung Sol in the preamp makes it usable. Going to throw in a Marshall Vintage 12 in place of the G12T for awhile. I tried a V30 in it but didn't care for it so Ill see how the Marshall version fits in. Its a 2006 with no hours on it so I want to crank it up and get it broke in while Im messing around.



I love the KT77's also and have. Set of Preferred Series 7025 12AX7s on the way from The Tube Store. They sound great in the Jubilee, clean up the tone bit and they are very durable tubes.


----------



## thebowl

I've searched it a couple of ways ands didn't find anything -has anyone swapped to salt & pepper grill cloth, with photos to share?

I am torn (no pun intended). I love salt & pepper, but the black actually looks sharp. I may be constructing a birch plywood baffle for another amp, and an thinking about doing one for my DSL40c.


----------



## Micky

thebowl said:


> I've searched it a couple of ways ands didn't find anything -has anyone swapped to salt & pepper grill cloth, with photos to share?
> 
> I am torn (no pun intended). I love salt & pepper, but the black actually looks sharp. I may be constructing a birch plywood baffle for another amp, and an thinking about doing one for my DSL40c.



I don't think so, at least I haven't seen it.

After you do it, make sure you post the photos here!


----------



## rjohns1

I really like the look of the 60's DSL40c. I thought about doing the grill cloth swap and getting the block badge as well.


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

I just bought some JJ preamp and power tubes. I'm going to try the pre's in conjunction with the Tungsols that I already have to see what combination I like the best.


----------



## crisis

Finally got to jam with this thing. Quite impressed. The intention was to have to lug less gear, tick, lighter gear, not exactly a tick and to be able to crank the power stage at 20watts, er, no. Going from a Mesa Recto 50W through a quad to a 20w into one speaker I thought I would have to drive it hard but it is fking loud. No problem.
I was impressed with the sound playing through my PRS 22. I have read plenty about the tone being “ice picky” but in the context of a band I think it is spot on. It cuts though. Perhaps playing in a room by yourself it is not the last word in smooth but even when I did that I didn't find it offensive. On the contrary. There is tons of EQ to play with on this before you start snipping wires and changing speakers. To each their own I guess. Anyway its a keeper.


----------



## oyvn

After some weeks with playing im loving my DSL40c. (Switched the speaker to a creamback 65m) 

I have a bias question. I biased the stock powertubes at 38. Then i came over some new EL34 from EH. I switched and messured 28(!) I turned it up to 37. Why is it so that the same type of tubes need to be rebiased like that?

Maybe im doing things wrong. My rutine is to power up and let it run for 2-3mins and then messure with volume and gain at 0. I messure mV at the three pinns with a multimeter.


----------



## Rahlstin

Tubes vary a lot. They have to measure a lot of em just to find matched ones. You adjust to match what the tube needs. Don't worry about it.


----------



## oachs83

Have had my DSL40C for a year now and other than putting a V30 in it never have ever messed with it til yesterday. I never have biased an amp before and funny how "scary" it sounds and then you go to do it and are like huh, well that was easy. My bias was at 42.2 and 43.5 so I am glad I did. I got them down to 38 waited 10 minutes it dropped a bit and managed to get them both dead on 38.1. I replaced the V1 preamp with a preferred 7025, the V2 and V4/pi with a Tung Sol 12ax7 and kept V3 stock. I will need more time with the amp to dial in but so far I am very glad I did these upgrades. The amp is way more clear and get a better crunch or break up at lower volume. I never realized how much mud I had in this amp, now I can turn the treble and presence down a bit and work more with my mid and bass and am getting a much fuller cleaner sound. I have a gig tonight so I'll get a good 4hrs use with her.


----------



## newplayeroldguy

I've had my amp for several weeks now, and I'm going to do a speaker swap. I've narrowed it down to either a veteran 30 or an ET65. Of course, I've listened to all the online demos I can find, but I've heard neither speaker in person. I'm looking for a less brittle sound then the 70/80, and a more mellow mid-but I do want a clean chimey high end, too. And a little more punch on the low end would be nice- I want it all, of course- doesn't everyone?

It's just me, no band to cut through, no drums to play over. Any thoughts would, as always, be appreciated.

I should add, my settings are T-3 M-7 B-6. I'm playing an American strat with standard single coils, and have the pups rolled back to 6 on the neck and 5 on the bridge-seems like with no load tone pots that I should be able to set both to 10 and let the amp do the rest, but with the 70/80 that won't work. I'm not happy with the settings, but the overbrightness is gone, but at the expense of a kind of overall dullness now.


----------



## Rahlstin

im running mine at 36 after measuring the plate at 471


----------



## ken361

OK kids I finally dropped a Warehouse British Lead in,bought used for 35.00. Guy said there's only a few hours on it. I noticed more low for sure! Pretty decent. Pretty much the same DNA,the crunch is still a bit bassy so I'm roll some tubes again to even it out more. Think its going to workout I'm sure its better, its more ballsy for sure on the red channel.


----------



## ken361

It was a breeze going in!, have a lot of old stock preamp for warm so maybe a EH in the v2 may work for the crunch channel


----------



## USAPatriot

oyvn said:


> After some weeks with playing im loving my DSL40c. (Switched the speaker to a creamback 65m)
> 
> I have a bias question. I biased the stock powertubes at 38. Then i came over some new EL34 from EH. I switched and messured 28(!) I turned it up to 37. Why is it so that the same type of tubes need to be rebiased like that?
> 
> Maybe im doing things wrong. My rutine is to power up and let it run for 2-3mins and then messure with volume and gain at 0. I messure mV at the three pinns with a multimeter.



A question for anyone: "Should" the bias be different if the volume and gain are not on zero? When I put this last set of tubes in I biased with everything at zero and then just to see what would happen, turned them all to 5. Neither the voltage at Pin3 nor the bias changed appreciably. Pin3 went down 1V at each tube and the bias never budged. -Rod-

EDIT: If they "should" be different, wouldn't it make sense to bias the amp with volume/gain settings closer to what's really being asked of the amp on a day to day basis?


----------



## dave999z

USAPatriot said:


> A question for anyone: "Should" the bias be different if the volume and gain are not on zero? When I put this last set of tubes in I biased with everything at zero and then just to see what would happen, turned them all to 5. Neither the voltage at Pin3 nor the bias changed appreciably. Pin3 went down 1V at each tube and the bias never budged. -Rod-
> 
> EDIT: If they "should" be different, wouldn't it make sense to bias the amp with volume/gain settings closer to what's really being asked of the amp on a day to day basis?



Someone who actually knows should weigh in, but I think I recall that just turning the volume and gain up (above zero) doesn't change the bias reading, but if you actually play a note or chord (i.e., send a signal through the amp), you'll see the numbers move?


----------



## Jethro Rocker

I believe that's correct, dave. The idle bias stays the same when the amp is idling, it changes when there is a signal being pushed. Once the number is set, play and listen, adjust again, listen and set it within tolerance till it sounds good for you. 
Dropped the bias voltage on my TSL, it tightened up but lost some fluidity in ch 3 so I set it in between. When not playing, numbers were consistent.


----------



## USAPatriot

Jethro Rocker said:


> I believe that's correct, dave. The idle bias stays the same when the amp is idling, it changes when there is a signal being pushed. Once the number is set, play and listen, adjust again, listen and set it within tolerance till it sounds good for you.
> Dropped the bias voltage on my TSL, it tightened up but lost some fluidity in ch 3 so I set it in between. When not playing, numbers were consistent.



That seems logical. It would also seem to be that if tube life is a factor in setting the bias, then it should be set to peak at what we think of as it's max, around 38mv.
Obviously that's just one factor among a few as tube life doesn't mean much if the amp isn't sounding any good, or less good than it might at a higher or lower value.

On another note, I'm getting a lot of buzzing from my speaker, generally in mids and lows when the note is peaking. I've had this issue on most amps I've had and I guess it's just a matter of tweaking my EQ, but the trouble is, I like the tone of the amp where it is, else it'd not be there. It's got body, punch, a lot of low end in my rhythms...think Black Sabbath or Uriah Heep or similar. So...I want to keep the tone but lose the buzz.
I'm running the gain in Red1 at about 5, volume all the way up and my attenuator at about 98%. My guitar, Les Paul Standard, is on about 9 on the volume and the tone pot about 6-7 on the neck pickup. I leave the switch down as the other two positions are just muddy. The amp is in Triode mode.. -Rod-


----------



## Swede

USAPatriot said:


> That seems logical. It would also seem to be that if tube life is a factor in setting the bias, then it should be set to peak at what we think of as it's max, around 38mv.
> Obviously that's just one factor among a few as tube life doesn't mean much if the amp isn't sounding any good, or less good than it might at a higher or lower value.
> 
> On another note, I'm getting a lot of buzzing from my speaker, generally in mids and lows when the note is peaking. I've had this issue on most amps I've had and I guess it's just a matter of tweaking my EQ, but the trouble is, I like the tone of the amp where it is, else it'd not be there. It's got body, punch, a lot of low end in my rhythms...think Black Sabbath or Uriah Heep or similar. So...I want to keep the tone but lose the buzz.
> I'm running the gain in Red1 at about 5, volume all the way up and my attenuator at about 98%. My guitar, Les Paul Standard, is on about 9 on the volume and the tone pot about 6-7 on the neck pickup. I leave the switch down as the other two positions are just muddy. The amp is in Triode mode.. -Rod-



Maybe its time for re-tightening of all the bolts etc...


----------



## MarshallDog

USAPatriot said:


> That seems logical. It would also seem to be that if tube life is a factor in setting the bias, then it should be set to peak at what we think of as it's max, around 38mv.
> Obviously that's just one factor among a few as tube life doesn't mean much if the amp isn't sounding any good, or less good than it might at a higher or lower value.
> 
> On another note, I'm getting a lot of buzzing from my speaker, generally in mids and lows when the note is peaking. I've had this issue on most amps I've had and I guess it's just a matter of tweaking my EQ, but the trouble is, I like the tone of the amp where it is, else it'd not be there. It's got body, punch, a lot of low end in my rhythms...think Black Sabbath or Uriah Heep or similar. So...I want to keep the tone but lose the buzz.
> I'm running the gain in Red1 at about 5, volume all the way up and my attenuator at about 98%. My guitar, Les Paul Standard, is on about 9 on the volume and the tone pot about 6-7 on the neck pickup. I leave the switch down as the other two positions are just muddy. The amp is in Triode mode.. -Rod-



Drop the bright cap value a bit or try some Preferred 7025 12aX7s. They will clean up that buzz, I use them in all my high gain amps now. I run LPSs into mine with the guitar eq set about the same.


----------



## USAPatriot

Swede said:


> Maybe its time for re-tightening of all the bolts etc...



I've checked on that and everything is tight except for a few of the back cover screws that are stripped. When I put my hand on the panel it doesn't change anything. I need to put inserts in all of them though and be done with it.



MarshallDog said:


> Drop the bright cap value a bit or try some Preferred 7025 12aX7s. They will clean up that buzz, I use them in all my high gain amps now. I run LPSs into mine with the guitar eq set about the same.



I'll look into that. I can dial the buzz out with the EQ but then I'm left with a tone that I don't want, at least not right now. All of my amps dating back to ~2011 have had this issue, which is really just me and my EQ. Or my ear. Maybe I should EQ the buzz out and just get used to it? -Rod-


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

Well, I put in the new JJ pre's and power's and.....no real noticeable difference. I guess there was one difference, they smell better when they're cooking. The power tubes were exactly the same when I went to bias them. I guess they really were a matched set. I'm going to throw the Tungsols back in V1-2 just to see if I notice anything. The speaker really did have the huge impact that I was looking for so overall I'm pretty stoked with the results. I could've saved myself a few buck on tubes, but I didn't have any spare power tubes. Now I do. 

I really appreciate all of the input and help that you guys have given me, whether in direct answers or stuff I've learned reading this thread. I've never done any mods on amps before and I was able to change the tubes, the speaker, and bias it all by myself. This all seems pretty easy now, but I probably would have screwed up my speaker, or the amp by not realizing that I had to check which input to plug it into, or not having the speaker plugged in while the amp was on. Thank you all very much. 

GWN


----------



## Micky

USAPatriot said:


> A question for anyone: "Should" the bias be different if the volume and gain are not on zero? When I put this last set of tubes in I biased with everything at zero and then just to see what would happen, turned them all to 5. Neither the voltage at Pin3 nor the bias changed appreciably. Pin3 went down 1V at each tube and the bias never budged. -Rod-
> 
> EDIT: If they "should" be different, wouldn't it make sense to bias the amp with volume/gain settings closer to what's really being asked of the amp on a day to day basis?



This is a good question. In order to see for yourself, leave your meter attached while you test it. Crank it if you can.

I think you will see that the voltage will wiggle a bit just like Rod described above. Depending on the MV setting and how hard you drive it will actually determine the voltage difference.


----------



## USAPatriot

Thanks, Micky. If I can get to it this week or on the weekend I'll hook the microclips up and see what happens with various volume and gain levels. If Lowes has the inserts, and they should, I can deal with that as an excuse to pull the chassis  -Rod-


----------



## Micky

How many inserts you need? 7?

PM me your address I will send them...
Unless I have it already?


----------



## USAPatriot

Micky said:


> How many inserts you need? 7?
> 
> PM me your address I will send them...
> Unless I have it already?



May as well do all of them. 4 are stripped and the rest will in time. PM coming, tyvm! -Rod-


----------



## ken361

Greatwhitenorth said:


> Well, I put in the new JJ pre's and power's and.....no real noticeable difference. I guess there was one difference, they smell better when they're cooking. The power tubes were exactly the same when I went to bias them. I guess they really were a matched set. I'm going to throw the Tungsols back in V1-2 just to see if I notice anything. The speaker really did have the huge impact that I was looking for so overall I'm pretty stoked with the results. I could've saved myself a few buck on tubes, but I didn't have any spare power tubes. Now I do.
> 
> I really appreciate all of the input and help that you guys have given me, whether in direct answers or stuff I've learned reading this thread. I've never done any mods on amps before and I was able to change the tubes, the speaker, and bias it all by myself. This all seems pretty easy now, but I probably would have screwed up my speaker, or the amp by not realizing that I had to check which input to plug it into, or not having the speaker plugged in while the amp was on. Thank you all very much.
> 
> GWN


Stock Marshall pre's are JJ!


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

ken361 said:


> Stock Marshall pre's are JJ!



I guess that explains why there was no difference. What about the power tubes? Are they JJ's stock as well?


----------



## ken361

I havent really into the stock power tubes, prb chinese not JJ for sure. I rolled a lot of tubes new and old stock some work better in certain amps then others! I personally like if your were to go new production tubes would be a Tungsol in the V1, its a smooth gainy tube that low on microphonics. Then back that up with maybe EH or the new Mullard short plate might be a good match. PI slot a Sovtek LPS or I like even better a NOS Sylvania's long plate labeled Baldwin, there all over ebay for pretty cheap and work excellent prb in the v1 or so on. Its a warmer smooth tube that will smooth the red channel out. I have 3 old stocks in 40c and it sounds good, the newer tubes are more brighter and less warm over the old ones and the older ones last much longer. JJ803 long plate is a decent tube to try in the v2 or so also


----------



## ken361

I take the back off the amp try a tube and put the back on again not screwed in a course and play it loud for a min or so and see how it sounds and feels. Feel muddy? clear? perfect then move on to the next one.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Yes, I have an old Lowrey (Sylvania) long grey from '63 that now resides in PI slot of 6101. Had it in V1 in 5153, liked it there too.


----------



## ken361

Have some sound samples with the British Lead speaker, amature playing though and recorded at bedroom levels!! only has a few hours broken in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6wlli8uMSc&feature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b71JBVUKvns


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

I have a couple of Tungsols in the tube box right now. I think I'll throw them in V1 and/or V2 and see what happens.


----------



## MaidenStrat02

I have 2 easy questions about my DSL40. Is it necessary to put a tube shield on V1 like all other amps out there or hasn't anyone experienced any problems? Next is concerning the installation of a choke. Does it matter if it's mounted parallel to the power tranny or should it be mounted at a right angle to the p.t.? I mounted mine parallel, twisted the leads and routed them away from the tubes. 
This picture shows the way I didn't do it. I'd hate to put in all back together then have to rip it back out. Thanks in advance.
BTW credit to Greatwhitenorth for the pic I copied for this.


----------



## MarshallDog

MaidenStrat02 said:


> I have 2 easy questions about my DSL40. Is it necessary to put a tube shield on V1 like all other amps out there or hasn't anyone experienced any problems? Next is concerning the installation of a choke. Does it matter if it's mounted parallel to the power tranny or should it be mounted at a right angle to the p.t.? I mounted mine parallel, twisted the leads and routed them away from the tubes.
> This picture shows the way I didn't do it. I'd hate to put in all back together then have to rip it back out. Thanks in advance.
> BTW credit to Greatwhitenorth for the pic I copied for this.



Heres a pic of mine. I added the tube shields on all of them like my old Marshall amps have just to help protect them form the sound vibrations. At the time of the pic I had these tube rings on but now I have the shields and I still have the tube rings on the PT's.


----------



## MaidenStrat02

Thanks, that's how mine is. Except now I have a much bigger problem, I have nothing. No sound, I went to check the bias and the read 0 the other like 19 or something. When I hit the standby I hear this slight click, the fuses are fine. The only thing done was installing the choke and clipping C19. Years ago when I had my DSL50 I didn't have any problems and I did more mods than this. Any ideas guys?


----------



## ken361

MarshallDog said:


> Heres a pic of mine. I added the tube shields on all of them like my old Marshall amps have just to help protect them form the sound vibrations. At the time of the pic I had these tube rings on but now I have the shields and I still have the tube rings on the PT's.



shields fit right in the slots right? I dont have any noise or vibrations with this amp. Most quiet combo I owned, would hurt to shield the v1


----------



## MaidenStrat02

MaidenStrat02 said:


> Thanks, that's how mine is. Except now I have a much bigger problem, I have nothing. No sound, I went to check the bias and the read 0 the other like 19 or something. When I hit the standby I hear this slight click, the fuses are fine. The only thing done was installing the choke and clipping C19. Years ago when I had my DSL50 I didn't have any problems and I did more mods than this. Any ideas guys?



Ok I'm an ass. After walking away and getting some supper I went back to examine all connections and bam there it was. Connector 11 from P.T. wasn't connected. I still have to check the bias but that should be all good.


----------



## MaidenStrat02

ken361 said:


> shields fit right in the slots right? I dont have any noise or vibrations with this amp. Most quiet combo I owned, would hurt to shield the v1



I'll probably get one when I get the chance. I did pickup a set of dampeners from Eurotubes. They're thick silicone rings that prevent vibration for the tubes when you're crankin' up. Altogether with shipping I think it was $28


----------



## Micky

So, how does it sound?


----------



## MarshallDog

ken361 said:


> shields fit right in the slots right? I dont have any noise or vibrations with this amp. Most quiet combo I owned, would hurt to shield the v1



Yes, the shields fit right in place no issues.

This is the link to the ones I got, I just put them on all 4...

http://www.thetubestore.com/Parts-A...e-Caps/Belton-Tube-Shield-for-Chassis-Cut-Out


----------



## Bownse

Q1: Damper ring AND shield?

Q2: Shields for pre-amp and power tubes or just one or the other?

[It's been ages since I've had a tube amp and the care and feeding of them was something I never really dug deep into. With the info on the DSL40C, I've been emboldened. After the c19 mod, I now have a Creamback 75/16 coming in this week.]


----------



## Rahlstin

I put shields on all four preamp tubes just to hold em in place.

I tried a choke in the 40C but I felt it took away something from the amps tone so I pulled it out.


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

MaidenStrat02 said:


> I have 2 easy questions about my DSL40. Is it necessary to put a tube shield on V1 like all other amps out there or hasn't anyone experienced any problems? Next is concerning the installation of a choke. Does it matter if it's mounted parallel to the power tranny or should it be mounted at a right angle to the p.t.? I mounted mine parallel, twisted the leads and routed them away from the tubes.
> This picture shows the way I didn't do it. I'd hate to put in all back together then have to rip it back out. Thanks in advance.
> BTW credit to Greatwhitenorth for the pic I copied for this.



That's not my pic, but I wouldn't mind seeing what a choke would do for my amp. I'm not even sure where the choke would go in the circuit. For that matter I'm not even sure where to get a choke. if you do put one in I'd like to hear what you think of it.


----------



## Bownse

BTW: Been having fun with the higher-gain, clean, red with resonence maxed and presence zeroed while playing along with some Lita Ford and Janis Joplin.

For the time being, I've retired the DS-1 pedal. It brings nothing extra to the party.


----------



## Micky

Greatwhitenorth said:


> That's not my pic, but I wouldn't mind seeing what a choke would do for my amp. I'm not even sure where the choke would go in the circuit. For that matter I'm not even sure where to get a choke. if you do put one in I'd like to hear what you think of it.



Info about this as well as photos is earlier in this thread...

God how I wish someone would go thru this mess and index it all...


----------



## Micky

Micky said:


> How many inserts you need? 7?
> 
> PM me your address I will send them...
> Unless I have it already?



In the mail dude...


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

I had to go all the way back to page 24 of the thread to find the pic that was credited to me. It was fellow Canadian member DSMer that posted pics of his choke and tube rings. I'm all about giving credit where it's due.


----------



## USAPatriot

Greatwhitenorth said:


> Half the time I can't tell if my reverb is even on. I wish the foot switch or the front panel had a LED so you could tell. Still not a deal breaker for me.



I wonder if there's proper power somewhere on the reverb board to power an LED and whether doing so would steal power from it? I may have to test some points this weekend when I'm working on the back panel. I don't know that I'd want to drill a hole in the front panel for an LED but I might run one out the back so I could see the glow. -Rod-


----------



## Bownse

USAPatriot said:


> I wonder if there's proper power somewhere on the reverb board to power an LED and whether doing so would steal power from it? I may have to test some points this weekend when I'm working on the back panel. I don't know that I'd want to drill a hole in the front panel for an LED but I might run one out the back so I could see the glow. -Rod-




detailed here:

https://youtu.be/7p3adTAm40c


----------



## USAPatriot

Bownse said:


> detailed here:
> 
> https://youtu.be/7p3adTAm40c



Thanks, but not looking for it on the footswitch, but looking to see if the reverb itself would power one. My footswitch is (probably) hooked up but shoved under the bed out of the way. -Rod-


----------



## Bownse

USAPatriot said:


> Thanks, but not looking for it on the footswitch, but looking to see if the reverb itself would power one. My footswitch is (probably) hooked up but shoved under the bed out of the way. -Rod-



Watch it and get an idea of how the circuit to the switch works. Run with that for your project.


----------



## MaidenStrat02

Micky said:


> So, how does it sound?



Pretty awesome but I'm still fooling around with pre-amp tubes. I'm really glad that I went with the Creamback Celestion.


----------



## Micky

OK - Here is the INDEX, I know it still needs a little work.
Open for suggestions here, please include a permalink...
(Maybe CR or Poe can insert/edit the first post in this thread to contain this info? Please?)

Index Of DSL40c Posts

Handles - http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...all-dsl40c-information-thread.html#post821001

Bias Trimpots & Test Points - http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...all-dsl40c-information-thread.html#post821019

C19 Cap Location - http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...all-dsl40c-information-thread.html#post821259

DSL40c Inside Cab Shots - http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...all-dsl40c-information-thread.html#post821283

Other DSL40c Links - http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...all-dsl40c-information-thread.html#post821692

DSL40c User Manual - http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...l-dsl40c-information-thread-3.html#post853377

NOS Preamp Tubes - http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...l-dsl40c-information-thread-6.html#post941017

LED Footswitch Mod - http://www.marshallforum.com/workbench/68260-dsl100h-footswitch-led-mod.html

R111 (Choke Resistor) Location /Closeup - http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...l-dsl40c-information-thread-9.html#post985491

ClassicTone Choke Installation Photos - http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...dsl40c-information-thread-18.html#post1037593 

More ClassicTone Choke Install Photos - http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...dsl40c-information-thread-34.html#post1097422

Which Preamp Tube Does What - http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...dsl40c-information-thread-31.html#post1089104

Skylarpilot's OT Transplant - http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...dsl40c-information-thread-34.html#post1097387

Back Panel Screw Inserts - http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...dsl40c-information-thread-34.html#post1097610

Sprague % Mallory Capacitor Mods - http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...dsl40c-information-thread-40.html#post1115912

Reverb Board Installation - http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...dsl40c-information-thread-48.html#post1135326

External Bias and Plate Voltage Test Points - http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...dsl40c-information-thread-50.html#post1140306

Microphonic Power Tube - http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...dsl40c-information-thread-54.html#post1155774

MarshallDog's Mod Summary - http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...dsl40c-information-thread-54.html#post1155774

Tube Amp Safety Warning - http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...dsl40c-information-thread-71.html#post1222183

ClassicTone OT Replacement - http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...dsl40c-information-thread-73.html#post1232225

6550 Conversion - http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...dsl40c-information-thread-99.html#post1311737

6550 in a DSL40c Complete Thread - http://www.marshallforum.com/workbench/79352-6550-power-tubes-dsl40c.html#post1301858


----------



## Bownse

First: Thanks! Excellent job!
Bug report: LED Mod link goes to the preamp tubes post.

Q: When biasing, do you need to have a load on the amp (speaker plugged back in even though the chassis is out of the cabinet)?


----------



## Micky

Bownse said:


> Q: When biasing, do you need to have a load on the amp (speaker plugged back in even though the chassis is out of the cabinet)?



Yes. And all controls set to 0.


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

Micky said:


> OK - Here is the INDEX, I know it still needs a little work.
> Open for suggestions here, please include a permalink...
> (Maybe CR or Poe can insert/edit the first post in this thread to contain this info? Please?)
> 
> Index Of DSL40c Posts
> 
> Handles - http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...all-dsl40c-information-thread.html#post821001
> 
> Bias Trimpots & Test Points - http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...all-dsl40c-information-thread.html#post821019
> 
> C19 Cap Location - http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...all-dsl40c-information-thread.html#post821259
> 
> DSL40c Inside Cab Shots - http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...all-dsl40c-information-thread.html#post821283
> 
> Other DSL40c Links - http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...all-dsl40c-information-thread.html#post821692
> 
> DSL40c User Manual - http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...l-dsl40c-information-thread-3.html#post853377
> 
> NOS Preamp Tubes - http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...l-dsl40c-information-thread-6.html#post941017
> 
> LED Footswitch Mod - http://www.marshallforum.com/workbench/68260-dsl100h-footswitch-led-mod.html
> 
> R111 (Choke Resistor) Location /Closeup - http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...l-dsl40c-information-thread-9.html#post985491
> 
> ClassicTone Choke Installation Photos - http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...dsl40c-information-thread-18.html#post1037593
> 
> More ClassicTone Choke Install Photos - http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...dsl40c-information-thread-34.html#post1097422
> 
> Which Preamp Tube Does What - http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...dsl40c-information-thread-31.html#post1089104
> 
> Skylarpilot's OT Transplant - http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...dsl40c-information-thread-34.html#post1097387
> 
> Back Panel Screw Inserts - http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...dsl40c-information-thread-34.html#post1097610
> 
> Sprague % Mallory Capacitor Mods - http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...dsl40c-information-thread-40.html#post1115912
> 
> Reverb Board Installation - http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...dsl40c-information-thread-48.html#post1135326
> 
> External Bias and Plate Voltage Test Points - http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...dsl40c-information-thread-50.html#post1140306
> 
> Microphonic Power Tube - http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...dsl40c-information-thread-54.html#post1155774
> 
> MarshallDog's Mod Summary - http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...dsl40c-information-thread-54.html#post1155774
> 
> Tube Amp Safety Warning - http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...dsl40c-information-thread-71.html#post1222183
> 
> ClassicTone OT Replacement - http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...dsl40c-information-thread-73.html#post1232225
> 
> 6550 Conversion - http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...dsl40c-information-thread-99.html#post1311737
> 
> 6550 in a DSL40c Complete Thread - http://www.marshallforum.com/workbench/79352-6550-power-tubes-dsl40c.html#post1301858



Wow! Nice work Micky!


----------



## Bownse

Swapped in the Creamback 75w 16ohm speaker. One thing is certain at this early point... that sucker is about twice as heavy as the 70/80 that was in there.


----------



## USAPatriot

Wow, Micky, excellent job! Thanks for making our lives a little easier -Rod-


----------



## 60Cycle

Bownse said:


> Swapped in the Creamback 75w 16ohm speaker. One thing is certain at this early point... that sucker is about twice as heavy as the 70/80 that was in there.



That 70/80 sure doesn't exude a feeling of quality does it?


----------



## MaidenStrat02

60Cycle said:


> That 70/80 sure doesn't exude a feeling of quality does it?



I put in the same speaker, did wonders for the low end.


----------



## ken361

Most speakers are prb better then the stock one added weight kinda sucks though


----------



## Bownse

Sweet! In combination with the C19 cap castration, the Creamback 75/16 nuked the harshness that I couldn't tune out after hours of trying. First session with the cb sounds better than the 70/80 did after about 40 hours of play time.

Magnets usually mean mass. More speaker performance usually means more magnet, more mass, and more weight. It is what it is but the result is (IMO) worth it.


----------



## JEB

Micky said:


> OK - Here is the INDEX, I know it still needs a little work.
> ...



IMHO, this should be in a new post that is pinned to the top of the Marshall Amps board.
Title it "Index of the Official Marshall DSL40C Information Thread" or something.


----------



## Micky

JEB said:


> IMHO, this should be in a new post that is pinned to the top of the Marshall Amps board.
> Title it "Index of the Official Marshall DSL40C Information Thread" or something.



Trying that now, it may be available this weekend if the Mods can get it to work. Making it a 'Sticky' really won't work, but if we can insert this into the 1st post, all the permalinks should still work.

I hope this helps a little, but we all need to work together to insure it is accurate and inclusive of all the popular mods...


----------



## HAmmer

Is anyone using these tubes in their 40c
Replacement Guitar Amplifier Valve Kit 9
Just wondering if it would make a big difference, thx


----------



## USAPatriot

HAmmer said:


> Is anyone using these tubes in their 40c
> Replacement Guitar Amplifier Valve Kit 9
> Just wondering if it would make a big difference, thx



I believe that is pretty much what's in there already, just Marshall branded. -Rod-


----------



## HAmmer

Ok Thanks Rod


----------



## ken361

You guys should try V Picks,there pretty awesome.there louder and clearer sounding and the clean channel is even nicer!!


----------



## USAPatriot

I found this thread slumming on page 2...  -Rod-


----------



## HAmmer

i was changing out the speaker on my 40c today and noticed that only 1 of the pre-amp tubes has a rubber grommet on it and the other 3 do not, is that normal?
thx


----------



## Micky

Normal.


----------



## HAmmer

Micky said:


> Normal.



Thx Micky


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

HAmmer said:


> i was changing out the speaker on my 40c today and noticed that only 1 of the pre-amp tubes has a rubber grommet on it and the other 3 do not, is that normal?
> thx



How are you liking the Veteran 30? I have a Retro 30 and am really digging it so far.


----------



## HAmmer

Greatwhitenorth said:


> How are you liking the Veteran 30? I have a Retro 30 and am really digging it so far.



i havent even had the amp turned on yet, waiting for my guitar on backorder, they told me it will be in this friday 5/15, after they set it up i should have it early next week


----------



## ken361

Warehouse speakers wrote me and said there speakers at a full break in is around 12hrs! Did any of you notice this or longer to break in? I have a 11 on the british lead and had 40 on the 70/80, I wouldn't say the Lead way better. Im still deciding.


----------



## Micky

ken361 said:


> Warehouse speakers wrote me and said there speakers at a full break in is around 12hrs! Did any of you notice this or longer to break in? I have a 11 on the british lead and had 40 on the 70/80, I wouldn't say the Lead way better. Im still deciding.



What? Are you typing on a phone?


----------



## ken361

Micky said:


> What? Are you typing on a phone?



No why??


----------



## Micky

ken361 said:


> No why??



Your posts are sometimes difficult to decipher. Especially when you don't use punctuation and/or correct grammar/spelling... That's all.

I don't know what you mean 'I have a 11'...


----------



## ken361

11 hours on the Warehouse Speaker


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

My Retro 30 was (well)used and I'm assuming completely broken in, so I have no idea how long the process takes. I did notice an immediate and significant difference for the better.


----------



## ken361

Seem more louder due to the bigger magnet? Well someone just responded to my post on another site and said, like any other speaker it takes way longer then 12 hours. That makes sense now he use to work there.


----------



## HAmmer

ken361 said:


> Seem more louder due to the bigger magnet? Well someone just responded to my post on another site and said, like any other speaker it takes way longer then 12 hours. That makes sense now he use to work there.



I imagine it depends on the volume level you play at during break in Period ( just a guess)


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

ken361 said:


> Seem more louder due to the bigger magnet? Well someone just responded to my post on another site and said, like any other speaker it takes way longer then 12 hours. That makes sense now he use to work there.



I honestly don't know if the amp was any louder due to the swap. I think it has to do more with the effiencicy of the speaker. Retro is 99.63dB, 70/80 is 98dB so in my mind it's almost a wash. Some of the other contributors who are smarter than I am can chime in here.


----------



## acaballerob

What does the sticker on the power tube means? I've seen a lot of them and they are all different. Mine says 43ma. Is it the bias for that particular power tube? I have a DSL40C. Thanks


----------



## USAPatriot

acaballerob said:


> What does the sticker on the power tube means? I've seen a lot of them and they are all different. Mine says 43ma. Is it the bias for that particular power tube? I have a DSL40C. Thanks



When dealers supposedly test their tubes, they match them up in groups with like qualities. Yours was part of a batch whose (likely) bias mid point was 43mA. This lets them send out tubes to people with special requests or that want pairs or quads that are alike. One set I got was labeled as 85's and one wouldn't bias below 85 while the other wouldn't bias below about 105. Your amp was probably biased at 35-38mA (or mV) so a 43 should bias down to that level too. That pair I had needed to be sent back and replaced with another pair that would bias down to 38mV. When you order power tubes, tell them what amp they're going in and what bias level you need to get to. Some amps will bias much hotter and those tubes may not work well in your 40C. Hence the number. -Rod-


----------



## acaballerob

USAPatriot said:


> When dealers supposedly test their tubes, they match them up in groups with like qualities. Yours was part of a batch whose (likely) bias mid point was 43mA. This lets them send out tubes to people with special requests or that want pairs or quads that are alike. One set I got was labeled as 85's and one wouldn't bias below 85 while the other wouldn't bias below about 105. Your amp was probably biased at 35-38mA (or mV) so a 43 should bias down to that level too. That pair I had needed to be sent back and replaced with another pair that would bias down to 38mV. When you order power tubes, tell them what amp they're going in and what bias level you need to get to. Some amps will bias much hotter and those tubes may not work well in your 40C. Hence the number. -Rod-


 

I checked my bias last weekend and they are set at 44mA. I never had biased it before. I let them at that value, since I'll not use it this week. My plate voltage is 483V. I'd checked the voltage one probe at the chassi and the other directly to the pin 3 with the multimeter. I didn't use the 1ohm resistor. I'm waiting new pre amp tubes and a silver mica capacitor for the c19. When I receive them, I'll bias it down to 37mA.


----------



## USAPatriot

acaballerob said:


> I checked my bias last weekend and they are set at 44mA. I never had biased it before. I let them at that value, since I'll not use it this week. My plate voltage is 483V. I'd checked the voltage one probe at the chassi and the other directly to the pin 3 with the multimeter. I didn't use the 1ohm resistor. I'm waiting new pre amp tubes and a silver mica capacitor for the c19. When I receive them, I'll bias it down to 37mA.



Did you let the amp warm up for awhile before you checked the plate voltage? 483 is on the high side for a DLS40C. Most of us probably see right around 460. Pin3 and the chassis is the correct way to measure PV, yes. I give mine 10-20 minutes before I check. Regardless, check the bias in mV rather than mA. mV is a more stable display and you'll get a correct reading sooner. You can check the bias at the prongs on the connector or at the resistors...R67 and R68 I think...big boys right near the connector. For 483V, the bias should be around 36mV but ultimately go for a reasonable value that sounds the best. -Rod-


----------



## USAPatriot

I'm noticing some slow oscillations from my DLS40C, most noticeable when I let notes or chords sustain (usually longer than normal, but still). Any thoughts? -Rod-


----------



## acaballerob

USAPatriot said:


> Did you let the amp warm up for awhile before you checked the plate voltage? 483 is on the high side for a DLS40C. Most of us probably see right around 460. Pin3 and the chassis is the correct way to measure PV, yes. I give mine 10-20 minutes before I check. Regardless, check the bias in mV rather than mA. mV is a more stable display and you'll get a correct reading sooner. You can check the bias at the prongs on the connector or at the resistors...R67 and R68 I think...big boys right near the connector. For 483V, the bias should be around 36mV but ultimately go for a reasonable value that sounds the best. -Rod-



I waited 15-20 minutes warming up, then measured on pin 3. I'm in brazil and here is 127V on the power outlet.


----------



## MaidenStrat02

Hey guys, I want to pick up some extra fuses for my 40c but need some clarification first. The 1st is a T500MAE250V which I would think is .5A 250V and the other is T2AE250V being 2A and same voltage. If this is right let me know. Next question is are these fast or slo-bo fuses? Thanks for the help.


----------



## siggy

FYI

I had a bad tube in V2 which I heard can be an issue on these amps. I'm sure you guys have all heard countless stories on bad tubes but I wanted to share my experiece because the symptoms seemed odd to me.

I was playing crunch on the green channel happy in my own world. I went to switch to the red channel and all of a sudden the sound cuts out to whisper volumes, then eventually out completely.

The odd part is that when I would switch back to the green channel it would also crap out. I thought if I had a bad tube in V2 switching back to green channel would fix the issue. Apparently not. I swapped out V1 for a 7025 just to try it out, and replaced V2 with a JJ 12ax7. Cut out issue is now gone


----------



## Micky

MaidenStrat02 said:


> Hey guys, I want to pick up some extra fuses for my 40c but need some clarification first. The 1st is a T500MAE250V which I would think is .5A 250V and the other is T2AE250V being 2A and same voltage. If this is right let me know. Next question is are these fast or slo-bo fuses? Thanks for the help.



Generally the T designation is for 'time-delay' which equates to slo-blo...


----------



## Jethro Rocker

siggy said:


> FYI
> 
> I had a bad tube in V2 which I heard can be an issue on these amps. I'm sure you guys have all heard countless stories on bad tubes but I wanted to share my experiece because the symptoms seemed odd to me.
> 
> I was playing crunch on the green channel happy in my own world. I went to switch to the red channel and all of a sudden the sound cuts out to whisper volumes, then eventually out completely.
> 
> The odd part is that when I would switch back to the green channel it would also crap out. I thought if I had a bad tube in V2 switching back to green channel would fix the issue. Apparently not. I swapped out V1 for a 7025 just to try it out, and replaced V2 with a JJ 12ax7. Cut out issue is now gone


Can't recall but half of V2 circuit may affect ch1 crunch mode. Not sure though, that would do it.


----------



## Micky

Jethro Rocker said:


> Can't recall but half of V2 circuit may affect ch1 crunch mode. Not sure though, that would do it.



Correct.


----------



## MaidenStrat02

Micky said:


> Generally the T designation is for 'time-delay' which equates to slo-blo...



Thanks. Am I correct about the other info then?


----------



## Micky

MaidenStrat02 said:


> Thanks. Am I correct about the other info then?



Yes.


----------



## Rahlstin

12 hours is about 240 songs give or take which isn't that many. 50 tunes a show more or less, 4-5 shows n it should be broken in or close to it.


----------



## MaidenStrat02

DSMer said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> If you want to sweeten up your DSL40C tone to a sickening level do this mod:
> 
> I replaced the .022uF V1-V3 Cathode bypass caps and PI coupling caps with Sprague Orange Drop 716's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tone caps in the EQ section which are also .022uF got replaced with Mallory 150's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Result of the the high quality caps mod:
> - Cleaned up the overall tone.
> - The EQ section is more responsive.
> - It got rid of the overall harshness.
> - The amp is dynamically richer at any volume level.
> 
> 
> In short words, the caps brought the best out the DSL40C.
> 
> I had to pull the PC board out completely. I had to discharge the caps first before anything else. There's a great deal of lethal voltage enough to kill.
> 
> Soldering the Mallory 150's in the EQ circuit is quite a challenge. It's very tight in there. The stock caps are too close together.
> 
> The Sprague Orange Drop 716 I I've got have bigger gauge leads. It's a pita inserting them through the board. I had to do a good desoldering job to allow easier insertion.
> 
> My band hosted a jam night last Thursday and was able to put it through the test with astonishing results. The whole time I had the Treble, Middle and Bass, Presence, Resonance controls all set at midway. Before the caps replacement mods tone settings were all over the place. Now, I have more options with tone shaping with EQ knobs. The other guitar players at the jam didn't even bother tinkering with them. They leave the stage with great compliments.
> 
> 
> No soundclips will do justice. You gotta play and hear it in person.



I was checking around some amp parts sites and all I'm seeing are Orange Drop 715's and are these right, Mallory 150 Series DC Film Capacitors - Metalized Polyester Film for the tone caps. Also do you have a component guide to what you did? Say a chart stating you swapped the cap at C?? with a Mallory or the Orange Drop? It would be helpful in swapping everything out to have a visual guide and how many of each type of cap you need. Thanks.


----------



## HAmmer

Anybody using a attenuator on their dsl40c?

Also i see this is available again
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DSL40CST


----------



## Bownse

If you paid street price for a DSL40c and for a separate Creamback (65w), you'd come out about equal (or a little ahead) by buying this.

I got mine in pristine condition as used through GC for about $400 and found the Creamback (75w) via Amazon for $169 and free shipping (Prime).

[ame]http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ECERHJC/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1[/ame]

4 screws and 2 spade connectors and you have the speaker swapped. Everything else on their description seems to be talking up a stock DSL40C


----------



## MarshallDog

MaidenStrat02 said:


> I was checking around some amp parts sites and all I'm seeing are Orange Drop 715's and are these right, Mallory 150 Series DC Film Capacitors - Metalized Polyester Film for the tone caps. Also do you have a component guide to what you did? Say a chart stating you swapped the cap at C?? with a Mallory or the Orange Drop? It would be helpful in swapping everything out to have a visual guide and how many of each type of cap you need. Thanks.



I did this mod a while back and love it plus it was simple and fun. I posted all,of the CXX numbers and values back on page 58 and here is a copy:

- C50, C51, C54 to Mallory 22nF/630V caps.
- C10, C25, C29, C47, C55, C60 to Sprague Orange Drop 22nF/400V caps.
- C2, C3, C18, C24, C91 to Mallory 47nF/630V caps.

Hope,this helps...


----------



## Micky

MarshallDog said:


> I did this mod a while back and love it plus it was simple and fun. I posted all,of the CXX numbers and values back on page 58 and here is a copy:
> 
> - C50, C51, C54 to Mallory 22nF/630V caps.
> - C10, C25, C29, C47, C55, C60 to Sprague Orange Drop 22nF/400V caps.
> - C2, C3, C18, C24, C91 to Mallory 47nF/630V caps.
> 
> Hope,this helps...



Any way you can permalink to the actual post with the photos?


----------



## MarshallDog

Micky said:


> Any way you can permalink to the actual post with the photos?



If you go to page 58 youll my original post with pics. Not sure what permalink means or how to do it??


----------



## Micky

'Page 58' is really not a good indicator. Many users have their page length set differently, which will tend to throw off such a reference. A much better link is called a 'permalink' which is a button/link near the top-right of each post. It changes the URL of a post to contain the actual spot where the post resides, which is usually a number.

That way, no matter WHAT a page length is set to, yo can link back to an individual post with ease.

In order to use the permalink, first find the post you wish to link to.
Then click the 'permalink' button near the top-right of that particular post.
Note the change in the URL, it now contains a 'number' at the end of the URL.
Copy and past that link (URL) into whatever and you are done.

That is how I created the Index for this thread, unfortunately no one knows how to insert it into the first post. (I do, make me a Mod and I will show you...) I should have permalinked your mod in the index also, but I was at work and in kind of a hurry...

Went back thru and found it, I think?

http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...dsl40c-information-thread-59.html#post1168029


----------



## Len

I think I asked this before but got no replies so I'll try again. Has anyone ever tried to mod the clean channel to make it warmer sounding?


----------



## Micky

Len said:


> I think I asked this before but got no replies so I'll try again. Has anyone ever tried to mod the clean channel to make it warmer sounding?



What exactly do you mean by 'warmer sounding'?

There have been a few who have experimented with different tubes in the V1 position to alter the tone there a bit, but mainly to get a handle on the gain.

As far as circuit mods, I cannot remember...


----------



## ken361

Crunch is a pretty warm sounding to me, I have a RFT in the v2 but I have to keep the red channel warm with the bass at 7. Stock power tubes with the factory bias and a Strat cleans I have to back off the bass a lot!


----------



## MarshallDog

Len said:


> I think I asked this before but got no replies so I'll try again. Has anyone ever tried to mod the clean channel to make it warmer sounding?



Yes i did. Lower C4 from 100 pF to someting lower. For me, I have settled on a 5 pF can and love it.


----------



## HAmmer

Creamback or Veteran 30 what would you pick?


----------



## Jerbeardsl

Veteran 30 was my choice very happy with it great for this amp!!


----------



## HAmmer

Jerbeardsl said:


> Veteran 30 was my choice very happy with it great for this amp!!


Thats what i put in mine, how many hours do you have on yours? did you notice it gets better sounding the more hours on it?


----------



## Jerbeardsl

I would say about 12 hours a it keeps getting better ,it already sounded great to start with and now it's even better , so much bass (punch) and so full and dynamic , night and day difference from the stock speaker , I did not need to do the c19 cut after this change. Hope this helps .


----------



## newplayeroldguy

Waiting for the UPS man now- I have a WGS reaper hp coming today


----------



## thebowl

I've searched this and can't find anything. I am considering a new baffle for my DSL40C. I already posted about using different cloth, but I overlooked the important stuff. 

Is the existing baffle easily removable? If so, is there a constraint on the thickness of the replacement material? I see 1/2" birch ply mentioned in a lot of places. I happen to have that and I also have a piece of 5/8" ply, that isn't birch, but oak finished. 

The idea here is to accommodate a Cetec Gauss 12" speaker. It weighs a ton, but can handle 200 watts. I have had it in the amp, and it was astonishingly loud and clear (long story; a buddy offered me my choice, and I decided to keep a D120F in it). So, assuming I swap back to the Gauss, I am inclined to use the thickest material I can fit, for durability purposes.


----------



## Len

MarshallDog said:


> Yes i did. Lower C4 from 100 pF to someting lower. For me, I have settled on a 5 pF can and love it.



I totally forgot about C4. I'll try experimenting with it this weekend. Thanks.


----------



## Micky

thebowl said:


> I've searched this and can't find anything. I am considering a new baffle for my DSL40C. I already posted about using different cloth, but I overlooked the important stuff.
> 
> Is the existing baffle easily removable? If so, is there a constraint on the thickness of the replacement material? I see 1/2" birch ply mentioned in a lot of places. I happen to have that and I also have a piece of 5/8" ply, that isn't birch, but oak finished.
> 
> The idea here is to accommodate a Cetec Gauss 12" speaker. It weighs a ton, but can handle 200 watts. I have had it in the amp, and it was astonishingly loud and clear (long story; a buddy offered me my choice, and I decided to keep a D120F in it). So, assuming I swap back to the Gauss, I am inclined to use the thickest material I can fit, for durability purposes.



Yes, the baffle is removable, although I would think the existing OEM baffle should work fine. 

You can remove the back, speaker and then the baffle by unscrewing the screws from the supports along the edges. You can install a new baffle, just remember to cut it a little smaller (1/8" on each edge) to accommodate whatever grill cloth and piping you choose to install. You may need to remove the bottom corner guards as well...


----------



## newplayeroldguy

speaker swap done, big improvement


----------



## DSMer

Len said:


> I think I asked this before but got no replies so I'll try again. Has anyone ever tried to mod the clean channel to make it warmer sounding?



I clipped C4 and C5. The result is cleaner, warmer Cleans and Crunch.
It also balances the level between the two modes. Couldn't be happier. Try lifting one leg of each capacitors first and see/hear how you'd like it.


----------



## ken361

You guys using thin pics or something? dam mines plenty warm


----------



## Bownse

I'd do the speaker swap before messing with the board. I found that my 75/16 Creamback did more for the tone than the C19 cap castration did.

Once you get that 78/80 in your hands, you'll know why.


----------



## ken361

Bownse said:


> I'd do the speaker swap before messing with the board. I found that my 75/16 Creamback did more for the tone than the C19 cap castration did.
> 
> Once you get that 78/80 in your hands, you'll know why.



you have 57+ in the bridge also? your tone must be as good as mine. These Les Pauls sound very good with these amps.My bud said my tone was great even with stock speaker broken in / nos tubes. He plays also!


----------



## Bownse

Pickups, According to Gibson: *Neck - '57 Classic; Bridge - Super '57*


----------



## SlyStrat

Without reading through this whole thing I'd like tone comparison's against other Marshall's. Thanks.


----------



## MaidenStrat02

DSMer said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> If you want to sweeten up your DSL40C tone to a sickening level do this mod:
> 
> I replaced the .022uF V1-V3 Cathode bypass caps and PI coupling caps with Sprague Orange Drop 716's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tone caps in the EQ section which are also .022uF got replaced with Mallory 150's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Result of the the high quality caps mod:
> - Cleaned up the overall tone.
> - The EQ section is more responsive.
> - It got rid of the overall harshness.
> - The amp is dynamically richer at any volume level.
> 
> 
> In short words, the caps brought the best out the DSL40C.
> 
> I had to pull the PC board out completely. I had to discharge the caps first before anything else. There's a great deal of lethal voltage enough to kill.
> 
> Soldering the Mallory 150's in the EQ circuit is quite a challenge. It's very tight in there. The stock caps are too close together.
> 
> The Sprague Orange Drop 716 I I've got have bigger gauge leads. It's a pita inserting them through the board. I had to do a good desoldering job to allow easier insertion.
> 
> My band hosted a jam night last Thursday and was able to put it through the test with astonishing results. The whole time I had the Treble, Middle and Bass, Presence, Resonance controls all set at midway. Before the caps replacement mods tone settings were all over the place. Now, I have more options with tone shaping with EQ knobs. The other guitar players at the jam didn't even bother tinkering with them. They leave the stage with great compliments.
> 
> 
> No soundclips will do justice. You gotta play and hear it in person.



I ordered all the parts listed and waiting for them to get here. Along with the Orange Drops I also bought the Mojo Tone equivalents, reading somewhere that Orange Drops don't quite keep the "British Tone"  Another question I do have is about the R71 mod, I have 47k's in .5 & 1W values in Carbon Comp, Metal Film, and Metal Oxide. Which type should use I and what Watt rating? Can't wait to get these mods done and back to playing it.


----------



## MarshallDog

MaidenStrat02 said:


> I ordered all the parts listed and waiting for them to get here. Along with the Orange Drops I also bought the Mojo Tone equivalents, reading somewhere that Orange Drops don't quite keep the "British Tone"  Another question I do have is about the R71 mod, I have 47k's in .5 & 1W values in Carbon Comp, Metal Film, and Metal Oxide. Which type should use I and what Watt rating? Can't wait to get these mods done and back to playing it.



If i remember, R71 is the nfb resistor. If so, I used a carbon comp 1/2 w the will be fine. However, mine is now back to the stock 100K.


----------



## MarshallDog

DSMer said:


> I clipped C4 and C5. The result is cleaner, warmer Cleans and Crunch.
> It also balances the level between the two modes. Couldn't be happier. Try lifting one leg of each capacitors first and see/hear how you'd like it.



What does C5 do? Ive done C4 and C19 but i am not aware of the C5 mod.


----------



## MaidenStrat02

MarshallDog said:


> What does C5 do? Ive done C4 and C19 but i am not aware of the C5 mod.



It does the same thing as C19 to the Clean/Crunch channel. Thanks for the R71 info.
BTW what's your opinion on using the Mojotone caps instead of the Orange Drops?


----------



## Rahlstin

Well another show played and I must say that this Friggin little amp is friggin amazingly satisfying to play through. My mostly final set up I think...: 
G12M65 Creamback
C19 = 100pf
JJ KT77 tubes 
Tungsol 12AX7 tubes
Bias at 34ish
= awesomeness


----------



## MarshallDog

MaidenStrat02 said:


> It does the same thing as C19 to the Clean/Crunch channel. Thanks for the R71 info.
> BTW what's your opinion on using the Mojotone caps instead of the Orange Drops?



OK, there must be a mistake here I am aware of the C19 and C4 mod but what the hell is C5? I have done both of these...is this a typo or what?


----------



## MarshallDog

Popped in a set of JJ ECC83-MG (mid-gain) tubes I had laying around in my DSL 40C. I think I like them right now, need to test them out. Slightly lower gain and the amp seems to sound a bit crunchier. Anyone else try these in the DSL 40C or any other amp(s)??


----------



## ken361

Stock tubes are 83's! I like the 803 on the v2 for some warmth


----------



## MarshallDog

ken361 said:


> Stock tubes are 83's! I like the 803 on the v2 for some warmth



I have some 803s may have to try it.


----------



## ken361

Try one in the v4 PI also


----------



## USAPatriot

Len said:


> I totally forgot about C4. I'll try experimenting with it this weekend. Thanks.



I like your thinking. I've been eyeballing that cap for 6 months but didn't know what there'd be to gain from it. I might clip a leg and see, but as with C19, it seems others like to just put a different value in there.
Has anyone bothered with C-20 yet? I'm guessing that it'll do for Red1 what C-19 did for Red2...but that might be overkill. Any thoughts on C-20? -Rod-


----------



## HAmmer

Im interested in the Rivera Rock Crusher attenuator for my dsl40,
Is anyone using this on their amp and can share your experience with it?

Thx


----------



## Rahlstin

if you change that stock speaker to something smoother and more balanced you may find that C19 is kinda nice to have with some value in there. At a lower volume, I found the creamback to kind be a bit light on the highs. I put a 100pf silver mica cap in there and its a lot better. I think you could go to 270 without bringing back that shrill. Im going to try that some time but not until I need to crack her open again.


----------



## MaidenStrat02

MarshallDog said:


> OK, there must be a mistake here I am aware of the C19 and C4 mod but what the hell is C5? I have done both of these...is this a typo or what?



It's from the post about the Cap swaps. It says about clipping C5 to add some warmth and clean up the clean/crunch channel. DSMer posted about the Mallory & Orange Drop caps he was swapping out along with other mods he was doing that's where I got it from. I didn't look to confirm when I answered you back so I got messed up with what it does.
I had PM'd DSMer but I'll ask you and anyone else too if they have had any problems with getting good consistent solder joints on this PCB. I know for sure I have a lifted pad on cap but I'm getting a lot of beading and not smooth flows. It's all good then once I remove the iron it beads up. I don't get it  I had an original DSL 50 and didn't experience this. I didn't have to much trouble removing all the components that are going to be replaced. Any ideas or tips are greatly appreciated.


----------



## Micky

The solder pads will always be delicate.
The problem arises from the fact that RoHS electronics must use lead-free solder.
Unless you are experienced and have the correct solder to 'blend' with the stuff they use now, you will have a difficult time. Even the new stuff from the UK is now using the lead-free stuff, you can thank the EPA and other left-wing agencies for that.

Some boards are 'plated-through' and that makes the pads a bit sturdier, but the lead-free problem still remains. Unless you use the exact same lead-free solder, you will have a cloudy, milky looking solder joint. If you use Kester '44' 60/40 solder you will generally have better luck resoldering connections. It is always best to clean up the joint first, using a solder sucker or solder wick to get as much lead-free stuff out of the way as possible. Because of the higher tin content, a higher temp is often needed, hence the problem with delicate pads. Hone your skills...


----------



## MaidenStrat02

Micky said:


> The solder pads will always be delicate.
> The problem arises from the fact that RoHS electronics must use lead-free solder.
> Unless you are experienced and have the correct solder to 'blend' with the stuff they use now, you will have a difficult time. Even the new stuff from the UK is now using the lead-free stuff, you can thank the EPA and other left-wing agencies for that.
> 
> Some boards are 'plated-through' and that makes the pads a bit sturdier, but the lead-free problem still remains. Unless you use the exact same lead-free solder, you will have a cloudy, milky looking solder joint. If you use Kester '44' 60/40 solder you will generally have better luck resoldering connections. It is always best to clean up the joint first, using a solder sucker or solder wick to get as much lead-free stuff out of the way as possible. Because of the higher tin content, a higher temp is often needed, hence the problem with delicate pads. Hone your skills...


Thanks, yeah I've been doing this for over 30 yrs and never had the problems this thing is giving me. I used both wick and solder sucker to clean everything out as well as a trick I learned long ago. I use a hand held pin drill to clean out the inside of the hole, just enough to clean it, it shouldn't take any effort if does use a smaller bit. I'm using Kester rosin core '44' 66/40, will this cause a problem? I used this solder to install the choke and it turned out well along with most of the joints so far.


----------



## MaidenStrat02

Hey Micky, will the lead free rosin core solder work or am I already using this? I found some at Home Depot that's silver bearing lead-free rosin core, it's .062 (a little thick) but is this what I should be looking for? I'm going out tomorrow and want to pick some up.


----------



## Micky

You can try it, if you have the right equipment.
Sometimes it may take a pencil that will do 750 and recover quickly in order to generate enough steady heat to use lead-free.

I gave 5 pounds of lead-free to Anitoli. Gave it away.


----------



## MarshallDog

MaidenStrat02 said:


> It's from the post about the Cap swaps. It says about clipping C5 to add some warmth and clean up the clean/crunch channel. DSMer posted about the Mallory & Orange Drop caps he was swapping out along with other mods he was doing that's where I got it from. I didn't look to confirm when I answered you back so I got messed up with what it does.
> I had PM'd DSMer but I'll ask you and anyone else too if they have had any problems with getting good consistent solder joints on this PCB. I know for sure I have a lifted pad on cap but I'm getting a lot of beading and not smooth flows. It's all good then once I remove the iron it beads up. I don't get it  I had an original DSL 50 and didn't experience this. I didn't have to much trouble removing all the components that are going to be replaced. Any ideas or tips are greatly appreciated.



My soldering was nice and smooth for the most part. I use the one with lead in it and solder sucker to clean the hole out. Then I touch the tip of the iron to the component leg for second and then touch the solder to it and it sucks it right up. I use a Craftsman 35W iron with pointed tip.

Also, I removed C4 and C19, i did not touch C5.


----------



## MaidenStrat02

It was DMSer post 4059. He gave me all the locations and the values of the stuff he modded. Micky might have given me some pointers too. I'll give that a go when I solder up the remaining parts.
Thanks you guys for helping me out


----------



## MaidenStrat02

This is what DMSer gave me, figured I repost it for clarity.


- NFB resistor(R71) to 47K.
- G12M-65 Creamback speaker.
- C4 and C19 gone.Clip C5 for more warm and cleaner on Clean/Crunch channel.
- C50, C51, C54 to Mallory 22nF/630V caps.
- C10, C25, C29, C47, C55, C60 to Sprague Orange Drop 22nF/400V caps.
- C2, C3, C18, C24, C91 to Mallory 47nF/630V caps.
- Mullard El34's and JJ ECC8803-S (long plate) pre-amp
- Classic Tone choke added.
- Added the Belton Tube Shields to the (4) pre-amp tubes.

Reducing the NFB to 47K really made the amp sound less harsh and in your face and it cleans up much better just by rolling the volume back.


He did tell me he returned to the normal 100K resistor for the NFB.
I am using Mojotone Dijon caps instead of Orange Drops. 
Coincidentally I also use Mullards for the power and V1 tubes, Tungsol in V2, JJ8803-S long plate V3, and matched JJ PI tube.


----------



## HAmmer

MaidenStrat02 said:


> This is what DMSer gave me, figured I repost it for clarity.
> 
> 
> - NFB resistor(R71) to 47K.
> - G12M-65 Creamback speaker.
> - C4 and C19 gone.Clip C5 for more warm and cleaner on Clean/Crunch channel.
> - C50, C51, C54 to Mallory 22nF/630V caps.
> - C10, C25, C29, C47, C55, C60 to Sprague Orange Drop 22nF/400V caps.
> - C2, C3, C18, C24, C91 to Mallory 47nF/630V caps.
> - Mullard El34's and JJ ECC8803-S (long plate) pre-amp
> - Classic Tone choke added.
> - Added the Belton Tube Shields to the (4) pre-amp tubes.
> 
> Reducing the NFB to 47K really made the amp sound less harsh and in your face and it cleans up much better just by rolling the volume back.
> 
> 
> He did tell me he returned to the normal 100K resistor for the NFB.
> I am using Mojotone Dijon caps instead of Orange Drops.
> Coincidentally I also use Mullards for the power and V1 tubes, Tungsol in V2, JJ8803-S long plate V3, and matched JJ PI tube.



Is there anybody on these forums that do these mods for a fee?


----------



## MarshallDog

MaidenStrat02 said:


> This is what DMSer gave me, figured I repost it for clarity.
> 
> 
> - NFB resistor(R71) to 47K.
> - G12M-65 Creamback speaker.
> - C4 and C19 gone.Clip C5 for more warm and cleaner on Clean/Crunch channel.
> - C50, C51, C54 to Mallory 22nF/630V caps.
> - C10, C25, C29, C47, C55, C60 to Sprague Orange Drop 22nF/400V caps.
> - C2, C3, C18, C24, C91 to Mallory 47nF/630V caps.
> - Mullard El34's and JJ ECC8803-S (long plate) pre-amp
> - Classic Tone choke added.
> - Added the Belton Tube Shields to the (4) pre-amp tubes.
> 
> Reducing the NFB to 47K really made the amp sound less harsh and in your face and it cleans up much better just by rolling the volume back.
> 
> 
> He did tell me he returned to the normal 100K resistor for the NFB.
> I am using Mojotone Dijon caps instead of Orange Drops.
> Coincidentally I also use Mullards for the power and V1 tubes, Tungsol in V2, JJ8803-S long plate V3, and matched JJ PI tube.



FYI, i did c4 and c19 i did not bither with c5. The way it sounds now would make me think removing c5 would make clean/crunch sound too warm/mellow IMO. I returned r71 to stock 100ohm also.


----------



## rjohns1

The more I play this amp, the more I love it. Although I gave up on the red channel. It is close to what I want, but I have a modded Backstar Ht-Dual on my board, and dialed in, sounds exactly what I want, and with it's EQ, I can get clean and dirt to sound similar eq wise. The bonus point for me is that I can run all pedals up front, and don't have run delay in the loop, as my dirt is before the delay pedal. The green channel is a great platform for pedals. Absolutely fantastic.


----------



## ken361

The way some people EQ amps on here thats why the red sounds bad lol, I mean like they use little bass, the trb set low then mids all the way, gain at 3 ect. Try different pics, makes a great difference.


----------



## HAmmer

ken361 said:


> The way some people EQ amps on here thats why the red sounds bad lol, I mean like they use little bass, the trb set low then mids all the way, gain at 3 ect. Try different pics, makes a great difference.



Im using the settings you posted here
http://www.marshallforum.com/marshall-amps/80864-dsl40c-post-your-favorite-settings-here.html

It sounds good to me


----------



## ken361

With the stock speaker I cut the trb and mids back to 3 to 4 when it was new and as it broke in I set it to 5 trb and mids. My new speaker Warehouse british Lead im keeping it the same@5 with around 20 hr on it so far. I was backing off the bass right away with the new speaker then I added a little back in.Experimenting with diff picks now, dam its like rolling tubes it adds mids or bass or lessons it. So im trying to figure whats best for both channels. The reds more picky as we know so I want to keep that warm sounding but still have plenty of highs.


----------



## John 14:6

I just sold a guitar and now plan to buy a Marshall or Marshall sounding 1x12 combo amp. Does the DSL40C really sound that bad stock? I am trying to avoid buying an amp that needs new tubes, speaker and mods in order to get a decent sound. Some guys say the DSL40C sounds great and many say it needs all kinds of work to make it usable or fun to play.


----------



## Micky

John 14:6 said:


> I just sold a guitar and now plan to buy a Marshall or Marshall sounding 1x12 combo amp. Does the DSL40C really sound that bad stock? I am trying to avoid buying an amp that needs new tubes, speaker and mods in order to get a decent sound. Some guys say the DSL40C sounds great and many say it needs all kinds of work to make it usable or fun to play.



Go play one.

I was blown away by how versatile this amp was. I thought it had 4-5 channels after I tweaked the gain and EQ a bit. You don't have to mod it for it to sound good. Mods just make it sound better.


----------



## ken361

John 14:6 said:


> I just sold a guitar and now plan to buy a Marshall or Marshall sounding 1x12 combo amp. Does the DSL40C really sound that bad stock? I am trying to avoid buying an amp that needs new tubes, speaker and mods in order to get a decent sound. Some guys say the DSL40C sounds great and many say it needs all kinds of work to make it usable or fun to play.



Just back off on the treble and the mids some below 5 and add some bass to fill it out more. Stock sounded best around 40 loud hours on the speaker. It rocks!! Better preamp tubes will smooth the top end some and over all tone and feel. Just give it time and crank it


----------



## John 14:6

I am thinking about getting this one from Sweetwater with the Celestion Creamback.

[ame]www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgLk8l3u3-k[/ame]


----------



## John 14:6

I just ordered one with a stock Celestion Creamback from Sweetwater.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

That would be excellent and does address some of the issues users have had with the 70/80 speaker. It's a great sounding little amp for many members here.


----------



## Bownse

Agreed. Having only done 2 mods to my 40c, the Creamback was clearly the significant one that tamed the harshness.

As posted earlier, I found my 40c used for a decent savings ($400). It was pristine and more than paid for getting my own 75w Creamback (more $ than the 65w one in the Sweetwater version) while still keeping the total investment below that of typical "new" street pricing.

Check out the used listings in the different outlets and big box stores (like GC). You might score a deal.


----------



## MaidenStrat02

MarshallDog said:


> FYI, i did c4 and c19 i did not bither with c5. The way it sounds now would make me think removing c5 would make clean/crunch sound too warm/mellow IMO. I returned r71 to stock 100ohm also.



What is C5's value anyway?


----------



## Micky

MaidenStrat02 said:


> What is C5's value anyway?



1n, 100v. It is a very small value coupling cap.


----------



## MaidenStrat02

Micky said:


> 1n, 100v. It is a very small value coupling cap.


Thanks. That would be .001uF if converted right?


----------



## Micky

Yes, or 1000pf.


----------



## MarshallDog

John 14:6 said:


> I am thinking about getting this one from Sweetwater with the Celestion Creamback.
> 
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgLk8l3u3-k



This video sounds great but isn't it interesting these guys seldom ever tell,use where there guitar volume and tone is set ...it has a big affect


----------



## crisis

John 14:6 said:


> I just sold a guitar and now plan to buy a Marshall or Marshall sounding 1x12 combo amp. Does the DSL40C really sound that bad stock? I am trying to avoid buying an amp that needs new tubes, speaker and mods in order to get a decent sound. Some guys say the DSL40C sounds great and many say it needs all kinds of work to make it usable or fun to play.


I have played it at home in a bedroom and jammed it in a band.It sounds fine to me in both environments. We play pretty heavy original rock music and I use it on the 20W setting and it is quite
 loud. I was actually surprised how loud it was jamming . I didn't need to use the 40W. It has such flexibility with the four modes and the available equalization I am surprised people cant get a good tone and resort to any mods. I do understand many of us are eternal tweakers and tone nerds and there is always room for improvement but these last increments of tone are really only relevant if you are sitting in a room by yourself. Live no one will notice the difference. 
The other thing is you need to know what peoples tastes are. Are the guys who find the tone too “ice picky” winding the gain up past 12 o clock? The only mode I think it is less than ideal is Lead 2 where I think it becomes a little loose. 
So again if guys are using this amp and wanting a high gain tone then fair enough. I haven't tried it with my 2x12 cab yet so that may be something to look at before messing around inside and clipping diodes etc. The other 
reasons I would be reluctant to mess with it is that most audio gear benefits from being run in for a while so the sound will change with use. And in my case one of the pre amp valves failed and had to be repaired under warranty 
so messing with it could void the warranty. So no, it doesn't sound at all bad stock, quite the contrary, and in my opinion it does not require any modification. If you are that worried find one in a store and give it a try.


----------



## HAmmer

I started a DSL40C Owners Group if anyone"s interested
http://www.marshallforum.com/groups/43-dsl40c-owners-group.html


----------



## newplayeroldguy

HAmmer said:


> I started a DSL40C Owners Group if anyone"s interested
> http://www.marshallforum.com/groups/43-dsl40c-owners-group.html



I posted a pic. I'm into the new speaker about a week now, had a chance to crank it up the last couple of nights- what a difference. I'm not changing another thing now. Time to focus on playing.


----------



## frankencat

My new DSL40c:

It's actually pretty cool but the stock speaker sucks. Luckily I have many speakers. I played it for a while through an ET65 WGS and it sounded pretty nice. Right now I have a Retro 30 in there and it is a little better I think for this amp. I am going to try a Scumback M75 today. Another thing I found is that the stock JJ's are pretty bright in this amp. I stuck an old Mullard in V1 and it instantly sounded better. Rolling some power tubes now just to see. BTW I clipped C19 5 minutes after it entered the house. The Ultra channel is just way too bright with it compared to the Classic but that fixed it right up.


----------



## Micky

Nice. Yours is different on the outside.
Mine is different on the inside...


----------



## frankencat




----------



## frankencat

Len said:


> I converted my DSL40 to a head, and use it with a 1936 cab. Great setup.



Do you have any pics? I would love to see that.


----------



## HAmmer

This blacked out version looks cool but hard to see the controls


----------



## Jerbeardsl

This is my DSL 40 c with a veteran 30 no need to change anything else for me when I go to ultra channel I just roll back the tone knob on my guitar from 10 to 6 takes the harsh highs right out of it with no change to the amp works great.


----------



## frankencat

Does anybody use the Tone Shift knob? What does it do? I assume it switches in/out a cap or filter of some kind but it doesn't seem very useful. This may be an opportunity for a cool mod.


----------



## HAmmer

frankencat said:


> Does anybody use the Tone Shift knob? What does it do? I assume it switches in/out a cap or filter of some kind but it doesn't seem very useful. This may be an opportunity for a cool mod.



From the Manual

The tone shift reconfigures the tone network adding a new dimension to passive tone shaping. When the button is pushed in and the mids are turned down , the result is an aggressive scooped-mid sound, ideal for many modern metal styles


----------



## frankencat

Well after messing around for the better part of the day I came to this setup:

- C19 clipped open
- WGS Reto 30 (8 ohm)
- GT EL34-LS biased at 38ma (455v on the plates)
- Amperex 12AX7A V1, Raytheon ('62) 12AX7A V2, JAN Philips 12AX7A V3, stock JJ ECC83 V4

I am going to try and find some new production tubes to replace a couple of the NOS in there now as this will be one of my gigging amps. I already have an email in to Doug's Tubes. The amp sounds very nice as is. It's not going to replace my Budda Superdrive 18 but it's a nice flavor to have for sure. I haven't owned a Marshall in many years so this is a nice thing for me. I used to be a Marshall guy all the way until I got the "boutique" bug. Nice to be back in the family! 






-FrankenCat


----------



## frankencat

I just broke down and put a Scumback M75 HP 16 ohm that a friend gave me to try out. It's very nice and I am guessing it will be super nice after it breaks in a little. Right now it's very balanced and sweet with good bottom but maybe a touch too much highs but they are sweet so it's good. I'm gonna play on it for the next week or so and see how it sounds after it breaks in.


----------



## ken361

frankencat said:


> Well after messing around for the better part of the day I came to this setup:
> 
> - C19 clipped open
> - WGS Reto 30 (8 ohm)
> - GT EL34-LS biased at 38ma (455v on the plates)
> - Amperex 12AX7A V1, Raytheon ('62) 12AX7A V2, JAN Philips 12AX7A V3, stock JJ ECC83 V4
> 
> I am going to try and find some new production tubes to replace a couple of the NOS in there now as this will be one of my gigging amps. I already have an email in to Doug's Tubes. The amp sounds very nice as is. It's not going to replace my Budda Superdrive 18 but it's a nice flavor to have for sure. I haven't owned a Marshall in many years so this is a nice thing for me. I used to be a Marshall guy all the way until I got the "boutique" bug. Nice to be back in the family!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -FrankenCat


I like your tube choice! I would consider a sylvania in the V4


----------



## Jethro Rocker

The Amperex and Philips being very bright, if you had an RFT or Mullard, try it in V3. Sounds like a good combo, though! Kudos on the Sylvania as PI if you had one. Fun to change 'em up!!


----------



## Bownse

Just ordered some tubes from the Tube Dr.

Matched pair: TAD EL34B-STR
Preamp: 
2 ea Russian Mullards
2 ea Tungsol reissues

Figure I need some spares since all I currently have is the OEM stuff in the DSL40C and a pair of JJ EL34s. At the least it will give me something to play around with in my spare time.

I also found this while digging around

http://www.recycledsound.net/14_Phase_Inverter.pdf


----------



## HAmmer

What have you guys found to be the best pre-amp tube combination
If any?


----------



## Micky

3rd or 4th page of this thread I think...


----------



## Risamaru

Is there a walk through or tutorial on biasing this amp, Specifically for someone who has never done this before. I want to be able to do this myself.


----------



## Micky

Risamaru said:


> Is there a walk through or tutorial on biasing this amp, Specifically for someone who has never done this before. I want to be able to do this myself.



Page 1 of this thread.

You are now officially banished to read this entire thread before posting again.

Report back here when you have completed the task.


----------



## Micky

Alright, here it is again:
INDEX - http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...sl40c-information-thread-101.html#post1322948

Someone should make me a mod of this section so that I could insert this on the 1st post of this thread.

Seeing how no one else knows how to do it...


----------



## HAmmer

Micky said:


> Alright, here it is again:
> INDEX - http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...sl40c-information-thread-101.html#post1322948
> 
> Someone should make me a mod of this section so that I could insert this on the 1st post of this thread.
> 
> Seeing how no one else knows how to do it...


Thx Micky, i bookmarked it this time and linked it in the dsl40c owners group


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Micky said:


> Alright, here it is again:
> INDEX - http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...sl40c-information-thread-101.html#post1322948
> 
> Someone should make me a mod of this section so that I could insert this on the 1st post of this thread.
> 
> Seeing how no one else knows how to do it...



We keep pleading ignorance and you'll do it for us!! 
Actually, I don't have a clue....


----------



## Micky

Problem is, you only get a week or so to edit a post.
So you will never be able to edit anything you wrote if it is old.

Mods can edit almost everything.
Problem is, none of them have the time or the ambition to edit possibly the most helpful or popular thread in the history of the Marshall forum. Oh well.


----------



## jasonvilla

Hi all. On my schematic it shows that R15 is 220k but I opened up my amp and its actually a 100k. Which I was pretty bummed about because I was going to try reducing it to get rid of the buzzy/fizzy gain. Has anyone else noticed this? My schematic says DSL40-60-02. Thanks!


----------



## Micky

frankencat said:


> Does anybody use the Tone Shift knob? What does it do? I assume it switches in/out a cap or filter of some kind but it doesn't seem very useful. This may be an opportunity for a cool mod.



I use it when switching between an LP and a Strat...


----------



## MaidenStrat02

I have a question about the 4th picture showing the connector you installed. What is the larger, thicker black wire? Is it another ground or is it something else? I'm modding mine and I might as well do this so I don't have to take this apart any time soon
Thanks


Roger Tyria said:


> External Bias and Plate Voltage Test Points
> 
> I've had the parts for about a month and finally took the time today to get this installed. I will be happy now to be able to check settings and Plate Voltages without needing to pull the chassis and connect a speaker extension to tweak or test output tubes.
> 
> Parts cost < $15.00 most of these came from Webber. They have the locking trim pots - advertised as 50K but when I opened the package they had 47K stamped on the back.. Perfect since the stock trimmers on the PCB were 47K.
> 
> Most of the time was spent pulling out the circuit board to remove the stock trim pots. While the PCB was out I drilled all the holes and ran the wires for the VP test points. These are Top left in the photo the smaller ones that fit a standard test probe tip.
> 
> I decided to install Standard binding post connections for the Bias points, this way I can use a banana jack and have both hands free to adjust the bias settings without needing to hold a meter lead.
> 
> I found a Phoenix connector that fit CON1 bias points perfectly, so this will make it easy if I ever need to pull the PCB in the future.
> 
> I installed the bias pots directly above each binding post so the trim pot adjusts the bias on the same side, unlike when using the internal connector. I also set the pots up so when they are turned clockwise the bias voltage goes less negative resulting in an increase in plate current.
> 
> Turned it on about an hour ago and adjusted everything seems to be working fine.
> 
> This is not a tough job, if you have the parts and about 3-4 hours I think it will be well worth the time spent.


----------



## John 14:6

I just got my DSL40C delivered today and it sure does look cool. Unfortunately the sound so far is kind of screechy and harsh. The amp is also very stiff under the fingers. I will try some new tubes and try running it through my closed back cabinet to give it a chance. I know the Celestion Creamback speaker will take time to break in. I really wanted to love this amp and I had hoped for the best. It may be going back. I can see putting in a choke, but I do not want to start chasing my tail with a bunch of mod work on a brand new amp.


----------



## Micky

John 14:6 said:


> I just got my DSL40C delivered today and it sure does look cool. Unfortunately the sound so far is kind of screechy and harsh. The amp is also very stiff under the fingers. I will try some new tubes and try running it through my closed back cabinet to give it a chance. I know the Celestion Creamback speaker will take time to break in. I really wanted to love this amp and I had hoped for the best. It may be going back. I can see putting in a choke, but I do not want to start chasing my tail with a bunch of mod work on a brand new amp.


Give it time. You will understand how versatile it is after you play it for a few days.


----------



## Micky

MaidenStrat02 said:


> I have a question about the 4th picture showing the connector you installed. What is the larger, thicker black wire? Is it another ground or is it something else? I'm modding mine and I might as well do this so I don't have to take this apart any time soon
> Thanks



Yes, it looks like an additional ground wire.

Roger doesn't check in here very often anymore...


----------



## Jethro Rocker

John 14:6 said:


> I just got my DSL40C delivered today and it sure does look cool. Unfortunately the sound so far is kind of screechy and harsh. The amp is also very stiff under the fingers. I will try some new tubes and try running it through my closed back cabinet to give it a chance. I know the Celestion Creamback speaker will take time to break in. I really wanted to love this amp and I had hoped for the best. It may be going back. I can see putting in a choke, but I do not want to start chasing my tail with a bunch of mod work on a brand new amp.



Yep, let speaker break in. Also, red ultra channel sounded harsh to me if I set EQ for green crunch with a broken in speaker. C19 mod worked for me, very simple, easier to reverse than a vasectomy.


----------



## John 14:6

I stuck an NOS RFT 12ax7 in V1 and that certainly helped to warm things up. The 20 watt mode sounds a lot warmer and Browner too. I think I will be keeping it and sticking in some more RFT's. Also, does anyone know where I can by some preamp tube shield covers that will fit the DSL properly?


----------



## Micky

John 14:6 said:


> Also, does anyone know where I can by some preamp tube shield covers that will fit the DSL properly?



www.thetubestore.com - Belton Tube Shield for Chassis Cut-Out


----------



## MarshallDog

Micky said:


> www.thetubestore.com - Belton Tube Shield for Chassis Cut-Out



This is where I purchased mine from, The Tube Store is awesome...


----------



## Bownse

Q: Damper rings or shields?


----------



## HAmmer

Micky said:


> www.thetubestore.com - Belton Tube Shield for Chassis Cut-Out



Do you cover all 4 preamp tubes?


----------



## Micky

HAmmer said:


> Do you cover all 4 preamp tubes?



You don't have to cover any of them.


----------



## HAmmer

Micky said:


> You don't have to cover any of them.



Your saying they're not needed on the dsl40c?


----------



## Jethro Rocker

That's how it came factory. No issues here.


----------



## Bownse

Bownse said:


> Q: Damper rings or shields?


----------



## TheSunShinesThrough

I have a question. If I leave
all my amp settings at 12 o' clock.
Shouldn't I be able to dial in
any tone from my guitar? Am I wrong?
There is three settings I use:

(Amp settings all at 12 o' clock)

1.) Tone control all the way up. 

2.) Bass at 3, treble at 10.

3.) Tone completely rolled off to zero with a distortion pedal.

Mainly the effects I dial in are from
my guitar, not my amplifier.

Is this wrong?


----------



## USAPatriot

Right. None of my preamp tubes had covers on them though V1 did have a rubber grommet to prevent mechanical microphonics. That said, I took two covers that I had from an older amp and put them on V1 and V2. It made no difference, and no reason it should, but as the tubes age the covers may prevent microphonics for some period of time. It cannot hurt to have them on (so far as I know) but may not help either. -Rod-


----------



## USAPatriot

TheSunShinesThrough said:


> I have a question. If I leave
> all my amp settings at 12 o' clock.
> Shouldn't I be able to dial in
> any tone from my guitar? Am I wrong?
> There is three settings I use:
> 
> (Amp settings all at 12 o' clock)
> 
> 1.) Tone control all the way up.
> 
> 2.) Bass at 3, treble at 10.
> 
> 3.) Tone completely rolled off to zero with a distortion pedal.
> 
> Mainly the effects I dial in are from
> my guitar, not my amplifier.
> 
> Is this wrong?



It's wrong, sorry. The controls on a guitar are usually just a high cut filter, so you're just dealing with a one block of frequencies. The guitar won't let you balance the bass, mids and treble. It just lets you allow the highs through or cut them, making it more bassy. No way to allow more highs and more mids for instance. Best bet is to set up the amp for your optimal tone with the guitar control set in the middle and then add or cut the highs if needed from the guitar. A sub-optimal tone on the amp itself will probably always be sub-optimal when trying to adjust it from the guitar. Your pedals will add more to the equation too. -Rod-


----------



## Micky

Stop mixing control settings.
They have numbers around the dial. Use them.

Rod is correct. Set your guitar controls all at 10.
Use the amp to get the tone you desire.
Use the guitar to adjust or fine-tune things.

For example, roll the guitar volume back to cut the gain or crunch a bit.
Roll the guitar tone back to cut the high-frequency tones.
Remember, the guitar tone controls are just a treble cut...


----------



## TheSunShinesThrough

USAPatriot said:


> It's wrong, sorry. The controls on a guitar are usually just a high cut filter, so you're just dealing with a one block of frequencies. The guitar won't let you balance the bass, mids and treble. It just lets you allow the highs through or cut them, making it more bassy. No way to allow more highs and more mids for instance. Best bet is to set up the amp for your optimal tone with the guitar control set in the middle and then add or cut the highs if needed from the guitar. A sub-optimal tone on the amp itself will probably always be sub-optimal when trying to adjust it from the guitar. Your pedals will add more to the equation too. -Rod-


 


And I suppose the amp settings depend on which guitar you're playing too?


----------



## Micky

TheSunShinesThrough said:


> And I suppose the amp settings depend on which guitar you're playing too?



Yes, to a degree. More importantly the pickups...
I use the Presence and Resonance to adjust to each guitar.

For example, my Strat is brighter than my LP so I turn down the Presence a bit and turn up the Resonance. But these controls work better when you are louder than bedroom levels...


----------



## PtTimeRckr

Micky said:


> ...Rod is correct. Set your guitar controls all at 10.
> Use the amp to get the tone you desire.
> Use the guitar to adjust or fine-tune things...



To pile on, there's a great thread in the LP forum. Here's an excerpt:



> 1. Turn all your volumes and tones up to 10.
> 2. Select the neck pick up.
> 3. Adjust your amp so you get a good soloing tone for that pickup.
> 4. Switch to bridge. This will be too bright. Ice-pick through ear territory.
> 5. Tame bridge with tone control, until you’ve got a good soloing tone.



There's more tips on using LP controls to play with variations from there. Still, if you play a variety of cover-type stuff, you'll be going back to the amp setup to get a truly broad range of tones.

IMHO. YMMV. Caveat emptor. Carpe diem.


----------



## ken361

TheSunShinesThrough said:


> I have a question. If I leave
> all my amp settings at 12 o' clock.
> Shouldn't I be able to dial in
> any tone from my guitar? Am I wrong?
> There is three settings I use:
> 
> (Amp settings all at 12 o' clock)
> 
> 1.) Tone control all the way up.
> 
> 2.) Bass at 3, treble at 10.
> 
> 3.) Tone completely rolled off to zero with a distortion pedal.
> 
> Mainly the effects I dial in are from
> my guitar, not my amplifier.
> 
> Is this wrong?


No bass and treble at 10 dammm man start at every thing on 5 and add some bass and resonance and reduce presence to 3


----------



## ken361

PtTimeRckr said:


> To pile on, there's a great thread in the LP forum. Here's an excerpt:
> 
> 
> 
> There's more tips on using LP controls to play with variations from there. Still, if you play a variety of cover-type stuff, you'll be going back to the amp setup to get a truly broad range of tones.
> 
> IMHO. YMMV. Caveat emptor. Carpe diem.



I rather just go by my bridge pup  neck sounds decent as long its set right.


----------



## John 14:6

Micky said:


> www.thetubestore.com - Belton Tube Shield for Chassis Cut-Out


I ordered some tube shield covers from the Tube Store and some RFT 12ax7's from Ebay. Does anyone know who makes the EL34's in my DSL40C? They are the gold labeled 00101 valves. The preamp tubes are the red labeled JJ 12ax7's which are numbered 00067.


----------



## John 14:6

I think there is a chance that the gold labeled (00101) EL34's that came with my amp might be the same tube Groove Tubes uses for their EL34M Chinese made Mullard FX2 copies. That is actually my favorite current production EL34 and it is what I run in my YJM100.


----------



## USAPatriot

Your EL34's should be TADs. Lemme check the numbering on my spare set...yeah, this set are the 101's and if I put them up against a set of TAD EL34B STR's, they are a visual match. Same internals, same base. I have a set of 00092's as well but didn't eyeball them. They may or may not be alike. There's a sticky thread that has all the Marshall numbers listed as well as who makes them. The Marshall's/TADs should be Shuguangs IIRC. -Rod-


----------



## John 14:6

USAPatriot said:


> Your EL34's should be TADs. Lemme check the numbering on my spare set...yeah, this set are the 101's and if I put them up against a set of TAD EL34B STR's, they are a visual match. Same internals, same base. I have a set of 00092's as well but didn't eyeball them. They may or may not be alike. There's a sticky thread that has all the Marshall numbers listed as well as who makes them. The Marshall's/TADs should be Shuguangs IIRC. -Rod-


 Thanks for the info. The list of Marshall tube codes I saw ended around 00088. I looked around online and found a post where someone said they were told by someone at Marshall that the 101's were Mullard reissues. I think TAD makes some reissues too.


----------



## wolfpack

Vintage model is waking up  & having a full cup of HOT Les Paul


----------



## ken361

Cant beat that combo!


----------



## PtTimeRckr

wolfpack said:


> Vintage model is waking up  & having a full cup of HOT Les Paul



She's a beauty. Loving that tail-wrap!


----------



## Rahlstin

I put tube shields on all four in mine only because its on the move every weekend and I like the extra push of the spring to keep the tubes in place.


----------



## frankencat

I did my first gig with mine last night and it sounded great! Stayed on the classic crunch channel with my PRS Custom 22 and a few pedals. Very nice!


----------



## John 14:6

frankencat said:


> I did my first gig with mine last night and it sounded great! Stayed on the classic crunch channel with my PRS Custom 22 and a few pedals. Very nice!


 I am planning on keeping mine, but I will probably have a choke installed and possibly do the C19 cap mod also. I want to wait a little while to make sure the amp is problem free before I void the warranty with mod work. I have more RFT 12ax7's on the way. I also ordered some metal preamp tube shields. In fairness to the amp the Celestion Creamback 65 only has about three hours playing time on it and I have yet to run it through my speaker cabinet for testing. It is a keeper and a great and inexpensive canvass for some minor mod work which will turn it into a little monster Marshall. I was surprised that the stock JJ preamp tubes did not warm up the amp, but they were fighting against a brand new right out of the box speaker.


----------



## ken361

might get too dark with all those RFT's I had one in the v2 but now have a 803 JJ, GE wa Jan's are good v1 or go a Tungsol v1 RFT v2 and so. Slyvania's are smooth and warm


----------



## Jethro Rocker

I doubt a 40C could get too dark from pretubes, IMO. It's far from a dark amp, especially with C19 cap in place!! I like the RFTs. Sooo many different ways to tube it!!


----------



## ken361

My crunch channel I dont need any darker


----------



## John 14:6

ken361 said:


> might get too dark with all those RFT's I had one in the v2 but now have a 803 JJ, GE wa Jan's are good v1 or go a Tungsol v1 RFT v2 and so. Slyvania's are smooth and warm


 I play Strats so it should not be too dark. I LOVE the RFT's in my YJM100. I can't expect the DSL to be neck and neck with my YJM100. Very different amps.


----------



## ken361

I bet the YJM sounds awesome


----------



## John 14:6

ken361 said:


> I bet the YJM sounds awesome


The YJM100 most certainly does sound awesome.


----------



## John 14:6

I am digging the crunch channel with the gain cranked and then boosted with either my Maxon OD808 or DOD/YJM308 (modded to Gray 250 specs) overdrive pedals. I set the levels on both overdrives all the way up and the gain all the way down. I seem to like the sound of the amp best on the half power setting too. I normally prefer a 50 watt head over a 100 watt head so maybe that is why. Right now I have RFT 12ax7's in V1 and V4. I have a Tung Sol 12ax7 in V2 and a JJ 12ax7 in V3. My crunch channel does not have a lot of gain, but it sounds pretty hot when boosted. It cleans up nicely as well. Very Marshally sounding.


----------



## rlowe

_Hello, I have read through the biasing articles showing the 3 pin connectors to put the voltmeter pins to for biasing. I would rather use alligator clips to hold vm pins steady (preference). The reason I am posting is that there is a bias tool that fits on tube plates 3 wires 1 red for plate voltage. the bias tool also plugs into voltmeter to read ma, mv. Can this device be safely used on the dsl 40c?. I am f__amiliar with high voltage contact points, and most likely will use the contact pins on board. Feedback on bias tool? thank you! rlowe _


----------



## rlowe

Concerning my dsl40c purchased in early February 2015: A few days ago the amp started sounding different losing body, definition, chords losing clarity not fully but still seeming to run together somewhat distorted, but still plays. I took off the back tested tubes by tapping them (all) with a wooden dowel rod while amp was on and volume max. v1 rang microphonically, all others tested fine. V3 glows much brighter than the other preamp tubes. I will be changing v1 as it is bad, and I suspect v3 might go soon reading this somewhere! rlowe Q: My OEM preamp tubes say Marshall ECC83 vlve-90067 w/ date. Can I use any ECC83, or do I have to use a code specific? thank you! again


----------



## mickeydg5

Hi Mr. Lowe
There are a lot of bias probes out there. Most are usually easy to use and safe. Give us a brand and model.
Some preamp tubes may have brighter heaters/filaments than others. That could very well be normal.


----------



## John 14:6

rlowe said:


> Concerning my dsl40c purchased in early February 2015: A few days ago the amp started sounding different losing body, definition, chords losing clarity not fully but still seeming to run together somewhat distorted, but still plays. I took off the back tested tubes by tapping them (all) with a wooden dowel rod while amp was on and volume max. v1 rang microphonically, all others tested fine. V3 glows much brighter than the other preamp tubes. I will be changing v1 as it is bad, and I suspect v3 might go soon reading this somewhere! rlowe Q: My OEM preamp tubes say Marshall ECC83 vlve-90067 w/ date. Can I use any ECC83, or do I have to use a code specific? thank you! again


The stock preamp tubes are re-labeled JJ 12ax7's. They are the JJ ECC83 and not the long plate 803's. You can stick any 12ax7/ECC83 tubes in there. I have old RFT 12ax7's in V1 and V4. I have a Tung Sol in V2 and a JJ in V3. I just got my amp last week and I am starting to really dig it.


----------



## rlowe

I was considering using this method the brand I don't recall about $40.00 on amazon.com. I just might use the con pin connect instead!


----------



## rlowe

mickeydg5 said:


> Hi Mr. Lowe
> There are a lot of bias probes out there. Most are usually easy to use and safe. Give us a brand and model.
> Some preamp tubes may have brighter heaters/filaments than others. That could very well be normal.


I was looking at bias tools on Amazon.com $40.00-$100.00 up. I do not remember the brands, and Will probably just use the basic method described on this forum. thank you! rlowe


----------



## mpereira

Some stoner rock I recorded with my 40C. I didn't use any pedals and the tone was awesome! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14eXjYQUyYQ

Green channel crunch, a little bit of gain, 4 treble and everything else but the reverb at noon (IIRC). Reverb is maxed.

I have the 40C for 3 months and I love it. I didn't do any mods (other than installing EHX power tubes) but am thinking of experimenting with removing C19 because the red channel is pretty much unusable to me.

Also, thanks to everyone for all the great information in this thread!


----------



## marshallmellowed

mpereira said:


> Some stoner rock I recorded with my 40C. I didn't use any pedals and the tone was awesome! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14eXjYQUyYQ
> 
> Green channel crunch, a little bit of gain, 4 treble and everything else but the reverb at noon (IIRC). Reverb is maxed.
> 
> I have the 40C for 3 months and I love it. I didn't do any mods (other than installing EHX power tubes) but am thinking of experimenting with removing C19 because the red channel is pretty much unusable to me.
> 
> Also, thanks to everyone for all the great information in this thread!



Nice tone and playing.


----------



## ken361

mpereira said:


> Some stoner rock I recorded with my 40C. I didn't use any pedals and the tone was awesome! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14eXjYQUyYQ
> 
> Green channel crunch, a little bit of gain, 4 treble and everything else but the reverb at noon (IIRC). Reverb is maxed.
> 
> I have the 40C for 3 months and I love it. I didn't do any mods (other than installing EHX power tubes) but am thinking of experimenting with removing C19 because the red channel is pretty much unusable to me.
> 
> Also, thanks to everyone for all the great information in this thread!



how did the new tubes and bias sound after?


----------



## Bram

I removed the c19 cap a while back but now I want to bring my amp back to its stock settings. I lost the c19 cap so I'm wondering if this one will do: (click for photo)

Thanks.


----------



## Micky

Bram said:


> I removed the c19 cap a while back but now I want to bring my amp back to its stock settings. I lost the c19 cap so I'm wondering if this one will do: (click for photo)
> 
> Thanks.



Yes.


----------



## Micky

rlowe said:


> I was considering using this method the brand I don't recall about $40.00 on amazon.com. I just might use the con pin connect instead!



I didn't wanna get into this discussion, mainly because I am very opinionated about this particular subject... But here goes anyway.

The bias pins on the PC board (underside of the chassis) are extremely safe to connect to. They carry a few millivolts, which is about what you would find in a nearly dead AA battery. It is easy to find some micro clips for your DMM probes, or some actual probes with micro clips built-in for that matter.

This combination, as well as a small phillips screwdriver, or preferably a small plastic tool such as a slug-tuning tool or other plastic tool is all one needs to properly bias a DSL. ANY DSL...

Let me first state the dangers of removing the chassis from the cabinet... There are potentially LETHAL voltages once you expose the circuitry by removing the chassis from the cabinet. THIS HOLDS TRUE FOR ANY TUBE AMP! Familiarize yourself with the proper safety precautions and FOLLOW THEM.

As long as you are dealing with the bias pins and the associated adjustment controls, you will be dealing with relatively low voltages, and you will minimize your exposure to hi-voltage components. As soon as you go poking around in other areas, you run the risk of shock hazards. BE CAREFUL!

My dislike or disdain for bias 'probes' or bias 'tools' comes from the fact that they take these lethal voltages OUTSIDE the relatively safe confines of the chassis, and place them at the end of a wire that should be connected to your DMM. This in and of itself, is a shock hazard. What if the wire is not plugged into the DMM? What of you touch that exposed connector by mistake or it touches something else? What if your meter is set to the wrong range and it explodes?

Please don't get me wrong here... These bias aids should work as intended if the instructions are followed implicitly, and can be convenient if used properly. BUT - With a DSL40c or DSL100h you need to remove the chassis to adjust the bias pots anyway, so why bother with all the extra work and expense?

All I am saying here is there is no real 'need' for a bias tool as long as you have a reliable meter, some micro clip probes, a small adjusting tool, and a brain. Marshall has made it very easy to replace your finals and adjust the bias. Don't make it harder or more hazardous than it has to be.


----------



## USAPatriot

The other thing, Micky, is that some tools make one lazy or inattentive. Like you mentioned, that bias probe is carrying the full weight of Pin3 in it to the outside of the amp and it must be respected. A cracked wire or socket can ruin your day very quickly and in shocking fashion. I have a pair of mini clips but don't use them for biasing. There's nothing wrong with keeping one's focus and hand-eye coordination sharp by using regular probes. I use the mini clips on resistors instead. Not a big deal either way but point is, an amp is the wrong place to practice laziness or acquire habits that are lazy. There's little to gain...a few seconds...and much to lose if something happens to go wrong. -Rod-


----------



## John 14:6

I am starting to really love this little amp. It is most certainly voiced like a Marshall. I will hit certain notes and smile because it has the same familiar tone I have heard on records. I was noodling around yesterday hit on something that sounded like Zeppelin's "Ten Years Gone." It was not just the notes, but a good approximation of the tone too. I am very glad I went with the Sweetwater DSL40CT which has the Celestion Creamback 65 included stock for $699. The speaker is starting to break in and some better preamp tubes have helped things as well. I am normally a fan of JJ 12ax7 preamp tubes, just not in this particular amp. I still have one in V3 for now.


----------



## ken361

Love to see a in depth video step by step on biasing for people that never did it like me Im better with hands on or watching then reading


----------



## rlowe

Micky said:


> I didn't wanna get into this discussion, mainly because I am very opinionated about this particular subject... But here goes anyway.
> 
> The bias pins on the PC board (underside of the chassis) are extremely safe to connect to. They carry a few millivolts, which is about what you would find in a nearly dead AA battery. It is easy to find some micro clips for your DMM probes, or some actual probes with micro clips built-in for that matter.
> 
> This combination, as well as a small phillips screwdriver, or preferably a small plastic tool such as a slug-tuning tool or other plastic tool is all one needs to properly bias a DSL. ANY DSL...
> 
> Let me first state the dangers of removing the chassis from the cabinet... There are potentially LETHAL voltages once you expose the circuitry by removing the chassis from the cabinet. THIS HOLDS TRUE FOR ANY TUBE AMP! Familiarize yourself with the proper safety precautions and FOLLOW THEM.
> 
> As long as you are dealing with the bias pins and the associated adjustment controls, you will be dealing with relatively low voltages, and you will minimize your exposure to hi-voltage components. As soon as you go poking around in other areas, you run the risk of shock hazards. BE CAREFUL!
> 
> My dislike or disdain for bias 'probes' or bias 'tools' comes from the fact that they take these lethal voltages OUTSIDE the relatively safe confines of the chassis, and place them at the end of a wire that should be connected to your DMM. This in and of itself, is a shock hazard. What if the wire is not plugged into the DMM? What of you touch that exposed connector by mistake or it touches something else? What if your meter is set to the wrong range and it explodes?
> 
> Please don't get me wrong here... These bias aids should work as intended if the instructions are followed implicitly, and can be convenient if used properly. BUT - With a DSL40c or DSL100h you need to remove the chassis to adjust the bias pots anyway, so why bother with all the extra work and expense?
> 
> All I am saying here is there is no real 'need' for a bias tool as long as you have a reliable meter, some micro clip probes, a small adjusting tool, and a brain. Marshall has made it very easy to replace your finals and adjust the bias. Don't make it harder or more hazardous than it has to be.


Reading through biasing carefully on forum is simple, and of course being aware of internal components. A few months ago I watched a bias tool demo on you tube and thought this would be safer until now! I will be using a volt meter with micro clip probes and no bias tool! thank you! rlowe


----------



## Micky

I hope people don't misunderstand me.

Bias 'tools' or 'probes' serve a purpose. Many amps have externally adjustable bias pots. This would be an ideal situation for one of these devices, as one would not need to remove the chassis from the cabinet and things could be set very easily just by plugging the tool into your meter (if needed, some tools contain built-in meters) and then putting the tool between an output tube and it's socket. Adjust away.

All I am saying is that if you have to pull the chassis to get to the adjustment points, why not just use the test points that have been provided for you already?


----------



## mpereira

ken361 said:


> how did the new tubes and bias sound after?



I actually don't know how they sounded *before*, because one of the stock power tubes went bad minutes after I started playing the amp for the first time.

You can see details of the power tube swap and biasing in this thread: http://www.marshallforum.com/marshall-amps/76303-dsl40c-no-sound.html#post1306563


----------



## mpereira

ken361 said:


> Love to see a in depth video step by step on biasing for people that never did it like me Im better with hands on or watching then reading



I recorded biasing my 40C after swapping the tubes but I didn't get to put it on YouTube, and caption it... lazyness prevails.

I can upload it and give a brief description of what's going on in the video if you want.


----------



## Micky

mpereira said:


> I recorded biasing my 40C after swapping the tubes but I didn't get to put it on YouTube, and caption it... lazyness prevails.
> 
> I can upload it and give a brief description of what's going on in the video if you want.



Yes, that may help many more people than you think.

I am not one for producing videos, even though I might have the HD equipment for it, but using photos and descriptions is generally enough for me. I have read and used enough Technical Service Manuals to make that procedure easy enough for me... YMMV

But for a procedure as simple as biasing ones own amp, I have always felt that there isn't enough there WORTH making a video for. It is THAT easy...


----------



## ken361

mpereira said:


> I recorded biasing my 40C after swapping the tubes but I didn't get to put it on YouTube, and caption it... lazyness prevails.
> 
> I can upload it and give a brief description of what's going on in the video if you want.



Would be great thanks!


----------



## solarburn

Eurotubes has a vid everyone can watch for using a MM on the con or bias probes on DSL's. This is where I learned how to do not only my DSL but my JMP as there are other vids regarding older Marshalls. Of course the bias pots/pins are inconveniently located in the chassis now instead of outside as seen in the vid. The process is the same whether using just a multimeter(MM)or bias probe.

[ame]www.YouTube.com/watch?v=_OSoXJ6qTGA[/ame]

More useful info here.

http://www.eurotubes.com/store/pc/marshall dsl-tsl-jvm how to bias page.htm


----------



## Jethro Rocker

I bought a Eurotubes probe, one with a tube socket so it goes between amp and tube. It reads PV and bias. Safe, just like changing tubes. No meter needed, seems accurate, certainly accurate enough for a bias!!


----------



## solarburn

I've got a couple of Amp Head Dual probes each with their own MM so I can do my 100 watters readily and I use the alligator clips if using the con pins. My hands have tremors and make touching a lead to a specific spot berry challenging. My 2 MM's are less than 1mv apart when biasing. Totally acceptable.

So the probes can help with us hand shakers. That's what she said.


----------



## Oldpunk

Stupid question.....Should you wait until you do a tube swap or go ahead and bias with the stock tubes?


----------



## PtTimeRckr

I want to bias my new stock set... just to check and also to be familiar with the process for when I have to replace or swap tubes.

My question: The vid shows left and right pairs playing off each other. Does this mean you have to keep working back and forth using the MM and test pins for both sides? I'm guessing yes.

Second question: should you be measuring plate voltage on both sides to start out and get your baseline? Or will one side do?


----------



## ken361

Jethro Rocker said:


> I bought a Eurotubes probe, one with a tube socket so it goes between amp and tube. It reads PV and bias. Safe, just like changing tubes. No meter needed, seems accurate, certainly accurate enough for a bias!!



I rather have that if I had the money, was that 80.00 something like that?


----------



## MaidenStrat02

S.O.S. my techie friends out there, I have a MAJOR problem. Over the past couple of weeks I've been modding my amp including a Creamback, doing the Cap replacement with Mallorys and Mojotones, Installed the choke and a Classic Tone O.T. along with the exterior Bias Test Points.
Everything went fairly well, I did have some lifted solder pads so I needed to scrape the trace and do some point to point soldering. So yesterday I finally got my O.T. and installed it. I turned it on to make sure it had power and I could hear one of the relays click and the LEDS came on then I shut it down. I put in the tubes and hooked up all my meters then switched her on to warm up then hit standby. I figured I'd check the Plate voltage for reference so I tested the EL34 closest to the speaker outs first. Pin 3 read a little low at 436V but I thought maybe it was due to it not being biased. Next came the second EL34, and this is where my Dyslexia fu**ed me over. I reversed the green and black wires going to the PCB. Of course I didn't realize this until when I checked pin 3 and it sparked then made a thump sound through my speaker. I also had no readings for the bias points I installed with no change when I turned the pots.
So guys how bad am I screwed? I found my mistake with the wires but I'm not getting any readings on either pin 3's and no Bias readings neither. 
I had all controls on zero, speaker hooked up, all fuses look good, and nothing looks fried on the board although there a small black mark on the tube base from the spark and it looks like no damage was caused by it. I've included some pics and if you look really closely at the yellow Mojotone caps you will see some spots where it was soldered to traces, I also had to mount two of them from the bottom. I'm really disgusted and pissed at myself knowing that I may have really screwed up so I'm hoping you all out there can help me PLEASE.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

ken361 said:


> I rather have that if I had the money, was that 80.00 something like that?



Yep, quite cheap, about $100 for me here in the Great White North. I really like it!! Use it for 4 amps.


----------



## HAmmer

do you think the dsl40 would drive a 4x12 cab?


----------



## mickeydg5

HAmmer said:


> do you think the dsl40 would drive a 4x12 cab?



Very easily.


----------



## HAmmer

mickeydg5 said:


> Very easily.



Nice, i think i might check into this
http://www.zzounds.com/item--MSH1960AV


----------



## MaidenStrat02

MaidenStrat02 said:


> S.O.S. my techie friends out there, I have a MAJOR problem. Over the past couple of weeks I've been modding my amp including a Creamback, doing the Cap replacement with Mallorys and Mojotones, Installed the choke and a Classic Tone O.T. along with the exterior Bias Test Points.
> Everything went fairly well, I did have some lifted solder pads so I needed to scrape the trace and do some point to point soldering. So yesterday I finally got my O.T. and installed it. I turned it on to make sure it had power and I could hear one of the relays click and the LEDS came on then I shut it down. I put in the tubes and hooked up all my meters then switched her on to warm up then hit standby. I figured I'd check the Plate voltage for reference so I tested the EL34 closest to the speaker outs first. Pin 3 read a little low at 436V but I thought maybe it was due to it not being biased. Next came the second EL34, and this is where my Dyslexia fu**ed me over. I reversed the green and black wires going to the PCB. Of course I didn't realize this until when I checked pin 3 and it sparked then made a thump sound through my speaker. I also had no readings for the bias points I installed with no change when I turned the pots.
> So guys how bad am I screwed? I found my mistake with the wires but I'm not getting any readings on either pin 3's and no Bias readings neither.
> I had all controls on zero, speaker hooked up, all fuses look good, and nothing looks fried on the board although there a small black mark on the tube base from the spark and it looks like no damage was caused by it. I've included some pics and if you look really closely at the yellow Mojotone caps you will see some spots where it was soldered to traces, I also had to mount two of them from the bottom. I'm really disgusted and pissed at myself knowing that I may have really screwed up so I'm hoping you all out there can help me PLEASE.


A major shout out and props to DSMer for solving my problems. He knew exactly what to do. I'd also like to thank Micky, Greatwhitenorth, Marshalldog and Roger Tyria for all your help and guidance with my misadventures in modding

So here's the list:
Celestion Creamback 65W
C4 removed
C5 to .001uF
C19 to 180pF
C50, 51, 54 to Mallory 150 22nF 630V
C10,25,29,47,55,60 to Mojotone Dijion 47nF 630V
C2,3,18,24,91 to Mallory 150 47nF 630V
Installed a Heyboer Choke model C1999 8H @ 100mA
Classictone O.T. model 40-18025 
Mullard 12AX7 in V1, Tung-Sol 12AX7 in V2, JJ ECC83 S, Balanced JJ ECC803 S in P.I.
Beldin tube shield for V1 and Silicon Tube Dampening rings from Eurotubes
Installed the External Bias Test Points mod
Reinforced With T-Bolts, Etc.

Here's to never opening it up again


----------



## Risamaru

MaidenStrat02 said:


> A major shout out and props to DSMer for solving my problems. He knew exactly what to do. I'd also like to thank Micky, Greatwhitenorth, Marshalldog and Roger Tyria for all your help and guidance with my misadventures in modding



That's why this site and the people here ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Micky

HAmmer said:


> do you think the dsl40 would drive a 4x12 cab?



Absolutely. It will drive 2 of them.


----------



## Micky

MaidenStrat02 said:


> A major shout out and props to DSMer for solving my problems. He knew exactly what to do. I'd also like to thank Micky, Greatwhitenorth, Marshalldog and Roger Tyria for all your help and guidance with my misadventures in modding
> 
> So here's the list:
> Celestion Creamback 65W
> C4 removed
> C5 to .001uF
> C19 to 180pF
> C50, 51, 54 to Mallory 150 22nF 630V
> C10,25,29,47,55,60 to Mojotone Dijion 47nF 630V
> C2,3,18,24,91 to Mallory 150 47nF 630V
> Installed a Heyboer Choke model C1999 8H @ 100mA
> Classictone O.T. model 40-18025
> Mullard 12AX7 in V1, Tung-Sol 12AX7 in V2, JJ ECC83 S, Balanced JJ ECC803 S in P.I.
> Beldin tube shield for V1 and Silicon Tube Dampening rings from Eurotubes
> Installed the External Bias Test Points mod
> Reinforced With T-Bolts, Etc.
> 
> Here's to never opening it up again



So what was wrong? What did you do to fix it?


----------



## MarshallDog

MaidenStrat02 said:


> A major shout out and props to DSMer for solving my problems. He knew exactly what to do. I'd also like to thank Micky, Greatwhitenorth, Marshalldog and Roger Tyria for all your help and guidance with my misadventures in modding
> 
> So here's the list:
> Celestion Creamback 65W
> C4 removed
> C5 to .001uF
> C19 to 180pF
> C50, 51, 54 to Mallory 150 22nF 630V
> C10,25,29,47,55,60 to Mojotone Dijion 47nF 630V
> C2,3,18,24,91 to Mallory 150 47nF 630V
> Installed a Heyboer Choke model C1999 8H @ 100mA
> Classictone O.T. model 40-18025
> Mullard 12AX7 in V1, Tung-Sol 12AX7 in V2, JJ ECC83 S, Balanced JJ ECC803 S in P.I.
> Beldin tube shield for V1 and Silicon Tube Dampening rings from Eurotubes
> Installed the External Bias Test Points mod
> Reinforced With T-Bolts, Etc.
> 
> Here's to never opening it up again



I always thought about upgrading the OT to the ClassicTone but have never gotten around to it, maybe this winter if Inget board.

What was wrong with your amp?..


----------



## MaidenStrat02

Micky said:


> So what was wrong? What did you do to fix it?



My dyslexia kicked in and I swapped wire on V6, power and voltage were reversed so when I checked pin 3 it zapped and blew fuse 1. It looked ok but once I took it out it it had no continuity. He told me how to measure the secondaries and some other stuff to check on. I thought I really messed it up but he saved my ass.
I do have a question about measuring the pins on pre-amp and power tubes.
Is every pin measured in Volts? I found this drawing that has all the pins labeled and their purpose. It also has areas were you can record the measurments for each tube. I thought while the chassis's out I'd record them.


----------



## rlowe

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Eurotubes has a vid everyone can watch for using a MM on the con or bias probes on DSL's. This is where I learned how to do not only my DSL but my JMP as there are other vids regarding older Marshalls. Of course the bias pots/pins are inconveniently located in the chassis now instead of outside as seen in the vid. The process is the same whether using just a multimeter(MM)or bias probe.
> 
> www.YouTube.com/watch?v=_OSoXJ6qTGA
> 
> More useful info here.
> 
> Marshall DSL-TSL-JVM "How To" Bias Page


Good post hits some needed info. on the spot! rlowe


----------



## Micky

Some pins have AC (heater) and some have DC.

If you study the pinout of a 12AX7 you can get an idea of what is happening where. It is also a good idea to know what pins connect to what parts inside...

Here is a brief intro:

A Tube Primer For Guitarists - Part One


----------



## MaidenStrat02

Micky said:


> Some pins have AC (heater) and some have DC.
> 
> If you study the pinout of a 12AX7 you can get an idea of what is happening where. It is also a good idea to know what pins connect to what parts inside...
> 
> Here is a brief intro:
> 
> A Tube Primer For Guitarists - Part One


Thanks. The diagram I have shows each pin and what it does but doesn't say whether it Ac or Dc Voltage.


----------



## 60Cycle

Micky said:


> Absolutely. It will drive 2 of them.



Yeah my 1watt JVM does a pretty good job at it. It's pretty load too.


----------



## minerman

HAmmer said:


> Nice, i think i might check into this
> Marshall 1960AV Angled Guitar Speaker Cabinet (280 Watts, 4x12"), New


Dude, you could do what I did last summer & buy a used cab for a fraction of that price, then load it with the speakers of your choice...I paid more for my speakers than my cab, but it did save me about $300 in the long run, just sayin'....


----------



## HAmmer

minerman said:


> Dude, you could do what I did last summer & buy a used cab for a fraction of that price, then load it with the speakers of your choice...I paid more for my speakers than my cab, but it did save me about $300 in the long run, just sayin'....



Yeah im lookin into that option also


----------



## minerman

HAmmer said:


> Yeah im lookin into that option also



I bought my 4x12 from Guitar Center for $300, shipped for about $350 or so...it came loaded with G12-T75's (which I still have), which are the most common speakers that come in these cabs, so if you don't like those speakers, you could probably flip 'em to make up for a little of the $$$ for new/different speakers...

If you buy from GC,you've also got a 30-day return policy too...

Sure, my cab's a little beat up, has torn tolex here/there, but it cost 1/4 of what a new cab would have cost, & to me, it sounds great with any of my amps...


----------



## HAmmer

minerman said:


> I bought my 4x12 from Guitar Center for $300, shipped for about $350 or so...it came loaded with G12-T75's (which I still have), which are the most common speakers that come in these cabs, so if you don't like those speakers, you could probably flip 'em to make up for a little of the $$$ for new/different speakers...
> 
> If you buy from GC,you've also got a 30-day return policy too...
> 
> Sure, my cab's a little beat up, has torn tolex here/there, but it cost 1/4 of what a new cab would have cost, & to me, it sounds great with any of my amps...


That's a great alternative for sure. Im getting a head cabinet made for my DSL thats why im searching for a 4x12. i'll check out GC for some used cabs thx for the tip


----------



## John 14:6

I now have four NOS RFT 12ax7's in the preamp and all I can say is 

*WOW!!!*


----------



## ken361

Warehouse speaker is really smoothing things out at around 30 loud hours! I'm using less bass now,not really harsh at all. Its rocking


----------



## newplayeroldguy

I have enough time on the Reaper HP to know it was a great choice for me- I continue to be amazed daily at how good it sounds


----------



## ken361

The V pick I'm using is the best on the red channel smooth nice top end, over others I used.


----------



## ken361

John 14:6 said:


> I now have four NOS RFT 12ax7's in the preamp and all I can say is
> 
> *WOW!!!*



Worked out good,cool


----------



## HAmmer

John 14:6 said:


> I now have four NOS RFT 12ax7's in the preamp and all I can say is
> 
> *WOW!!!*



Did you change power tubes?


----------



## John 14:6

HAmmer said:


> Did you change power tubes?


 The stock EL34 power tubes sound fine to me. I normally like JJ 12ax7's to warm up an amp, but the stock JJ's did not sound good in my DSL. I had been running two RFT 12ax7's in V1 and V4. I had a Tung Sol in V2 and a JJ in V3 until today when I got a couple more RFT's. The previous combo worked well, but the RFT's really did the trick. My Celestion Creamback 65 is breaking in also. I should just keep my big mouth shut about RFT's because they are hard enough to come by in the first place. I love them in my YJM100 and my DSL.


----------



## HAmmer

John 14:6 said:


> The stock EL34 power tubes sound fine to me. I normally like JJ 12ax7's to warm up an amp, but the stock JJ's did not sound good in my DSL. I had been running two RFT 12ax7's in V1 and V4. I had a Tung Sol in V2 and a JJ in V3 until today when I got a couple more RFT's. The previous combo worked well, but the RFT's really did the trick. My Celestion Creamback 65 is breaking in also. I should just keep my big mouth shut about RFT's because they are hard enough to come by in the first place. I love them in my YJM100 and my DSL.



Ok great, i just ordered 4 of them i'll give it a shot


----------



## John 14:6

HAmmer said:


> Ok great, i just ordered 4 of them i'll give it a shot


 Where did you buy the RFT's? The Tube Store or Ebay? Be careful buying NOS tubes on Ebay. I have received bad tubes from Eastern European sellers who had good ratings. I received a couple today that are most certainly working well.


----------



## HAmmer

John 14:6 said:


> Where did you buy the RFT's? The Tube Store or Ebay? Be careful buying NOS tubes on Ebay. I have received bad tubes from Eastern European sellers who had good ratings. I received a couple today that are most certainly working well.


 
on Ebay from Germany, They should be ok i hope


----------



## ken361

HAmmer said:


> on Ebay from Germany, They should be ok i hope



Got mine from The Tube Monger


----------



## Guitar-Sam

Try um one slot at a time. I rarely find myself preferring the same brand accross the board. Rfts are great in the right spot though. Almost sure bliss for v1 of Marshall's,but I know they flat out sucked in v2(clean ch) on my 2210. 
Also be very carful putting um in and out rfts are known for cracking at the bases between the pins if handled rough


----------



## John 14:6

I recommend trying all four RFT's together before you start with the one at a time stuff. I had them in V1 and V4 until yesterday when I got a couple more and stuck them in V2 and V3 also. The amp is a serous little tone machine and a fire breathing monster especially when goosed with an overdrive pedal. I was so bummed when I first got the amp and four RFT's later along with a little Creamback 65 break in time, I am loving this little sucker. It even does low volume playing great for late night stuff. It sounds really big when it gets cranked up some too.


----------



## John 14:6

You guys probably already saw this, but it was new to me.


[ame]www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGDheLVngPk[/ame]


----------



## Bor04

Hi. New here and I want to say thanks for a great forum. I am happy to see that it is laid out in the same format as another great guitar forum that I am also a member. Also, I have been searching around for the past couple of days trying to find some answers regarding my DSL 40C but haven't been able to get it pin it down.

I apologize if I am posting this question in a more advanced thread, however, this is the only place my searches have taken me where I trust my questions to be answered. I am NOT the "tech-head" as most of these posts have offered and I am certainly NOT about to try any soldering and welding on my amp. But I need to turn to you guys for your expertise for what most of you would probably consider basic stuff. 

So, here goes. 

1. Is it typical for fuses to blow if power tubes blow or vice versa?

2. When I took it in for repair they said that one of the power tubes was blown and that they needed to swap both at the same time. Is this typical?

3. They said that the original Marshall tubes (00092) Gold logo, would cost $295 each, is that right? That doesn't seem right to me. 

4. If they are that expensive, what would be the best tubes to replace these with to get the same result?

5. They have advised me that they have a tube that would be comparable to the factory set and so went ahead and put them in. I receive my amp to find JJ E34L's in them and I am not happy. Totally different and no where near the same amp I got when I bought it. If anyone could please help and guide me in the right direction I would greatly appreciate it. 

You guys are great! Thank you.


----------



## ken361

power tubes are around 30 to 40 bucks a set! others with the experience will chime in


----------



## Micky

Bor04 said:


> Hi. New here and I want to say thanks for a great forum. I am happy to see that it is laid out in the same format as another great guitar forum that I am also a member. Also, I have been searching around for the past couple of days trying to find some answers regarding my DSL 40C but haven't been able to get it pin it down.
> 
> I apologize if I am posting this question in a more advanced thread, however, this is the only place my searches have taken me where I trust my questions to be answered. I am NOT the "tech-head" as most of these posts have offered and I am certainly NOT about to try any soldering and welding on my amp. But I need to turn to you guys for your expertise for what most of you would probably consider basic stuff.
> 
> So, here goes.
> 
> 1. Is it typical for fuses to blow if power tubes blow or vice versa?
> 
> 2. When I took it in for repair they said that one of the power tubes was blown and that they needed to swap both at the same time. Is this typical?
> 
> 3. They said that the original Marshall tubes (00092) Gold logo, would cost $295 each, is that right? That doesn't seem right to me.
> 
> 4. If they are that expensive, what would be the best tubes to replace these with to get the same result?
> 
> 5. They have advised me that they have a tube that would be comparable to the factory set and so went ahead and put them in. I receive my amp to find JJ E34L's in them and I am not happy. Totally different and no where near the same amp I got when I bought it. If anyone could please help and guide me in the right direction I would greatly appreciate it.
> 
> You guys are great! Thank you.



1- Yes
2- Yes
3- No. Anywhere between $30-$60 bucks a set of 2
4- TAD EL34 are popular here
5- Yes, they are comparable. Inexpensive


----------



## Bor04

Micky said:


> 1- Yes
> 2- Yes
> 3- No. Anywhere between $30-$60 bucks a set of 2
> 4- TAD EL34 are popular here
> 5- Yes, they are comparable. Inexpensive


 
Thanks Micky! Where would you recommend I buy the original tubes from? I will attempt to replace them myself. I have already been charged $200 for the repair.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Was 200 for simply cahnging the power tubes, fuse and bias? Biasing goes with changing power tubes BTW. Seems a bit steep to me. Shouldn't hear a big difference between them. I thought the original power tubes were made by JJs, the EL34.


----------



## Bor04

Jethro Rocker said:


> Was 200 for simply cahnging the power tubes, fuse and bias? Biasing goes with changing power tubes BTW. Seems a bit steep to me. Shouldn't hear a big difference between them. I thought the original power tubes were made by JJs, the EL34.


 
Well, it was $50 for the exam right of the top. Then, after the diagnosis, they told me it would be 295 for each tube. (My amp came with 00092 with the gold Marshall logo) I just don't see how these JJE34L's are supposed to be comparable to these marshall's. The cleans sound pretty good but the dirty channel sounds so muddy and no where near what I was getting when I first got it. (Without pedals)


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Not sure, I could research or let one of the knowledgeable folks chime in but NO current power tube is $295 each. Seriously, what are they doing? You may have had a different bias when it was new to where they set it, if they did. I'm leery when I hear those types of prices thrown around. Marshall pit $600 worth of tubes in a $600 amp??
Should be no big difference, perhaps they changed some preamp tubes as well. Marshall does not make tubes, one of the 5 or 6 tube manufacturers worldwide make all of them with different branding. I thought the stock were JJs, could be wrong. Again, you shouldn't really hear that much of a difference all other things being equal.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Additional R&D here on the forum shows stock tubes with that label for DSL40C to be Chinese Shuguangs, fairly standard Chinese tubes. Google it. You could take it back or call the repair shop (which to me is REALLY suspect now) and tell 'em you want Shuggys imstead of the JJs. Unless you are really pushing the power section loud, you shouldn't notice a huge difference.
The tube store lists one version of these at $30 per pair, even the fancy pants SED winhed C tubes are only $80 each. Your reapair shop has some 'splaining to do...


----------



## ken361

I can get 2 tungsol el34 at my store i think they were 40 or so and a 10.00 for a bias. Wonder if they set the bias cold on his?
Did you have a warranty? 5 years bro!


----------



## mickeydg5

Bor04 said:


> Well, it was $50 for the exam right of the top. Then, after the diagnosis, they told me it would be 295 for each tube. (My amp came with 00092 with the gold Marshall logo) I just don't see how these JJE34L's are supposed to be comparable to these marshall's. The cleans sound pretty good but the dirty channel sounds so muddy and no where near what I was getting when I first got it. (Without pedals)


Hello Bor04

I think what everyone is telling you in a round about way is that there is nothing special about the power tubes that came with the amplifier. They are just standard grade and purchased by Marshall in bulk for install.

Current manufactured tubes should cost no where near $295 each as everyone has exclaimed. The price on average is about $40 to $50 for a matched pair set.

What I have not read yet is how you are getting jacked by this repair shop. Find another shop with a good technician if possible.

The $50 exam fee should be made part of the bill because it becomes part of the overall service. And $200 for inspection/exam, a fuse, a pair of tubes and bias is way too much.

Add
There are lots of people who like JJ E34L power tubes. They should sound decent with a bit more bottom end. If not then maybe you were sold crappy tubes and then given a crappy bias setup. Again that gets directed back to the repair shop.

You should ask for record of how the bias was setup. What was the plate voltage, control grid voltage and idle current draw on each tube for bias setup?


----------



## Bownse

Like others have said, it seems you got reamed. I'm new-ish to tube maintenance (my last tube amp simply ran all the time and I never thought about it back in the 70s).

Turn around time and shop time motivated me to roll my own tubes and biasing. I reported on my first experience here:

http://www.marshallforum.com/workbench/71742-biasing-dsl40c.html#post1345948

Without this forum, I'd never have had the nerve.


----------



## Micky

You might need to find a new tech...

Here is a deal at the Tube Depot - JJEL34's $11.88:

https://tubedepot.com/products/jj-el34-power-vacuum-tube


----------



## Bownse

Back again.

As mentioned in the 40c Bias thread, I rolled in the following tubes as part of the bias today.

TAD EL34B-STR (new matched pair)
V1-Tung-Sol 12AX7 (new)
V2-Mullard RI 12AX7 (new)
V3-Tung-Sol 12AX7 (new)
V4-Marshall 12AX7 from V3 prior

I have some TAD 7025WA on order as well as another Mullard on hand to roll once I try this for a while.

After a brief breather from cleaning up the kitchen table, I sat down for a run though. A few things I noticed.

1. More head room on the clean/green channel (cooler bias).
2. More melodic (less strident) sound (preamp tubes?).
3. More head room on the clean/red and crunch channels (again, more melodic).

I'm happy! Much broader spectrum to work with than with the JJs at 70+%. I can still dial in the distortion it has before by playing with volume and gain knobs but there's a lot more to work with before stepping into that area.


----------



## John 14:6

Bownse said:


> Back again.
> 
> As mentioned in the 40c Bias thread, I rolled in the following tubes as part of the bias today.
> 
> Based on some recommendations (and what preamp tubes I had on hand), I also swapped in the following:
> 
> V1-Tung-Sol 12AX7 (new)
> V2-Mullard RI 12AX7 (new)
> V3-Tung-Sol 12AX7 (new)
> V4-Marshall 12AX7 from V3 prior
> 
> I have some TAD 7025WA on order as well as another Mullard on hand to roll once I try this for a while.
> 
> After a brief breather from cleaning up the kitchen table, I sat down for a run though. A few things I noticed.
> 
> 1. More head room on the clean/green channel (cooler bias).
> 2. More melodic (less strident) sound (preamp tubes?).
> 3. More head room on the clean/red and crunch channels (again, more melodic).
> 
> I'm happy! Much broader spectrum to work with than with the JJs at 70+%.


 I would try the Marshall (relabeled JJ) in V3 and stick one of your other tubes in V4 the Phase Inverter spot. V1 (first gain stage) and V4 (phase inverter) will have the biggest influence on an amps tone followed by V2 which is the second gain stage. 

V3 should be the tone stack and tubes do not seem to have a lot of effect on the tone in the V3 spot.


----------



## Grogshla

the JJ E34L tubes are actually better quality than the stock marshall ones brother!


----------



## Bownse

John 14:6 said:


> I would try the Marshall (relabeled JJ) in V3 and stick one of your other tubes in V4 the Phase Inverter spot. V1 (first gain stage) and V4 (phase inverter) will have the biggest influence on an amps tone followed by V2 which is the second gain stage.
> 
> V3 should be the tone stack and tubes do not seem to have a lot of effect on the tone in the V3 spot.



Thanks for the tips. 

I stuck the JJ in V4 because of the discussion about the work out that V4 gets. 

I may try both Mullards in V1 and V2 to see if it gives a fuller sound. But I read Marty's discussion about the extra-rated tubes giving good gain results in V1 with the Mullards mellowing it out some.

I'll step through the swaps with a V3/4 swap first.


----------



## kingbee

Grogshla said:


> the JJ E34L tubes are actually better quality than the stock marshall ones brother!



Have to disagree with this. The stock Shuguang El34's that came in mine are awesome. NOT a fan of JJ's. Just saying...


----------



## nikola

Hi all,

Just dropping in to let you know that I've biased my DSL40C yesterday and it went well without a hitch. Plate voltage was at 486V for both power tubes and biased them to about 36mV.

Thanks to all of you guys because without this forum and all the pictures involved, I don't think that I would have done it myself.

Thanks again.


----------



## ken361

Recording at bedroom levels mic'd lead 1 to crunch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srFGTfzeWuk


----------



## Jethro Rocker

I have now found a combination I really like
Chinese Sino V1
RFT V2
Raytheon BP V3
Matsu****a Slant V4

It really cooks now! I'm liking the tone, will see tomorrow when I play a small school gig with a teacher band mate. I like how the auto censor doesn't like the Matsu name, same as Panasonic parent company!


----------



## HAmmer

ken361 said:


> Recording at bedroom levels mic'd lead 1 to crunch
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srFGTfzeWuk



That sounded awesome! Can you post those settings on the settings thread Ken


----------



## Bor04

mickeydg5 said:


> Hello Bor04
> 
> What I have not read yet is how you are getting jacked by this repair shop. Find another shop with a good technician if possible.
> 
> The $50 exam fee should be made part of the bill because it becomes part of the overall service. And $200 for inspection/exam, a fuse, a pair of tubes and bias is way too much.


 

Thank you all for your help. I truly appreciate all your time. I am writing this today with a bit of embarrassment because I called the repair shop last night to explain what I have learned and that I was not happy with the repair. Not long after I made my complaint something came over me to try a new guitar cable...walah! I feel like a total idiot. 

However, even though he replaced the original tubes with less expensive ones this still does not explain the $295 quote for the originals. 

What would a repair like this typically cost?

I will definitely be looking for a new tech but still would like to know what he was looking at. 


Here is the original email I received from the repair shop. 

"talked to my tech, Glynn, about your amp. A fuse blew, which is why we could get no sound from it at the shop. The larger problem is: one of the power tubes is shot and needs to be replaced. There are two power tubes and they are generally replaced in pairs. The original Marshall replacements are $295 per tube. Your labor for the work will be $150.


Now, if you don't mind a substitute tube (I don't know how much of an audiophile you are), Glynn has located a tube that should work. These run only $35. You can chose to replace only one if you like."

At least the end result is that my amp is sounding the way it's supposed to again.


----------



## Micky

Marshall tubes don't cost $295. Plain and simple.


----------



## John 14:6

Bor04 said:


> Thank you all for your help. I truly appreciate all your time. I am writing this today with a bit of embarrassment because I called the repair shop last night to explain what I have learned and that I was not happy with the repair. Not long after I made my complaint something came over me to try a new guitar cable...walah! I feel like a total idiot.
> 
> However, even though he replaced the original tubes with less expensive ones this still does not explain the $295 quote for the originals.
> 
> What would a repair like this typically cost?
> 
> I will definitely be looking for a new tech but still would like to know what he was looking at.
> 
> 
> Here is the original email I received from the repair shop.
> 
> "talked to my tech, Glynn, about your amp. A fuse blew, which is why we could get no sound from it at the shop. The larger problem is: one of the power tubes is shot and needs to be replaced. There are two power tubes and they are generally replaced in pairs. The original Marshall replacements are $295 per tube. Your labor for the work will be $150.
> 
> 
> Now, if you don't mind a substitute tube (I don't know how much of an audiophile you are), Glynn has located a tube that should work. These run only $35. You can chose to replace only one if you like."
> 
> At least the end result is that my amp is sounding the way it's supposed to again.


 The only explanation is that the quote came out of the mouth of an unethical crook trying to mislead you and rip you off. Marshall spends $50 at the most for all the tubes in your amp. If the guy is an authorized "Marshall" service tech he should be reported to Marshall. It would probably cost you or me $80 to buy all the same tubes online.


----------



## Bor04

Thanks everyone!


----------



## ken361

HAmmer said:


> That sounded awesome! Can you post those settings on the settings thread Ken



Thanks man, gain at 7 both channels. treb and mids at 6 bass at 6 resonance 6 presense at 3. I use a vocal mic which is a tad dark but sounds smooth recorded. The amp brightens up more when its cranked but full sounding and im using nos preamp tubes and 2 newer ones also


----------



## mickeydg5

Bor04 said:


> Thank you all for your help. I truly appreciate all your time. I am writing this today with a bit of embarrassment because I called the repair shop last night to explain what I have learned and that I was not happy with the repair. Not long after I made my complaint something came over me to try a new guitar cable...walah! I feel like a total idiot.
> 
> However, even though he replaced the original tubes with less expensive ones this still does not explain the $295 quote for the originals.
> 
> What would a repair like this typically cost?
> 
> I will definitely be looking for a new tech but still would like to know what he was looking at.
> 
> 
> Here is the original email I received from the repair shop.
> 
> "talked to my tech, Glynn, about your amp. A fuse blew, which is why we could get no sound from it at the shop. The larger problem is: one of the power tubes is shot and needs to be replaced. There are two power tubes and they are generally replaced in pairs. The original Marshall replacements are $295 per tube. Your labor for the work will be $150.
> 
> 
> Now, if you don't mind a substitute tube (I don't know how much of an audiophile you are), Glynn has located a tube that should work. These run only $35. You can chose to replace only one if you like."
> 
> At least the end result is that my amp is sounding the way it's supposed to again.


The Marshall original EL34 power tubes are NOT special. They are normal average everyday run-of-the-mill $20 tubes.
6CA7/EL34 type tubes cost on average $15 to $25 a piece depending on brand and style.
You can buy top shelf or old stock tubes for premium prices. But those do not come stock in musical amplifiers and most people never use that grade of product for such use.

There are a few post in threads regarding cost of a set of power tubes, amplifier diagnostics and bias setup. The set of tubes has its cost, again based on brand and type. Generally a 100 watt uses four power tubes and a 50 watt uses two. They are most always changed as a set especially if all are older and worn. Replacing one tube in a set would best be done with use of tube testing equipment to match tubes. Your technician may be capable, maybe not.
Changing a set of tubes and biasing should not cost more than a half hour to one hour labor. That as well as the price per hour depends on the technician.
I would think that two tubes and a bias along with a fuse should have cost you about half or less on average of what you paid. Again, that depends on location and the shop/technician used. Shop around and ask questions.

Always clean jacks and cable plug tips with an electronic contact cleaner.
Learn how to use a multimeter to check for proper condition and connectivity of these.


----------



## solarburn

That's $295 per tube...not both.

WTF! X10!

Never ever think one power tube that is OEM or equivalent would be $300.

Let's not even talk about NOS. Just confuse matters.


----------



## Bownse

> What would a repair like this typically cost?



I got a pair of JJ power tubes (Marshalls are said to be made by JJ under contract), and a re-bias for $40.00.


----------



## Hildo

I have a question for anyone who has done an Output transformer transplant on the DSL 40C or the like. I have a Classic tone OT and choke on the way.

After the OT is installed I read that the amp is to be powered up without the tubes briefly. Should it be powered up without the pre amp and power tubes or just power tubes ?

Then turned off. Then put the tubes back in. Power up, let warm and check plate voltage on both power tubes at pin # 3. If the voltages are in acceptable range then continue to bias.


----------



## Micky

Why do this? Do you believe everything you read?

I guess I just don't understand the purpose of turning it on with no tubes...


----------



## Hildo

It didn't make sense to me. There's a post on the previous page mentioning turning it on and then putting the tubes in.


----------



## Micky

Hildo said:


> It didn't make sense to me. There's a post on the previous page mentioning turning it on and then putting the tubes in.



Previous page? Of what?

Just swap them out. That is what I did.
I even think I documented the correct wiring...


----------



## Hildo

Page 142 a post by Maidenstrat02. Starts with S.O.S. I guess I am reading to much and getting research overload. It got me confused. 
I can bias an amp and have swapped out tubes. Changed a cap or 2. 
After reading and seeing the pictures on this thread I am confident that I can mounting and wire the output transformer without an issue. It's been really helpful. 

So it's as straightforward as fallows then.
Mount and wire the OT. Put the tubes back in. Connect the speaker. Turn on. Let warm. Check plate voltage. Bias. And enjoy. If I have missed a step your input would be appreciated. Thanks


----------



## Micky

Hildo said:


> Page 142 a post by Maidenstrat02. Starts with S.O.S. I guess I am reading to much and getting research overload. It got me confused.
> I can bias an amp and have swapped out tubes. Changed a cap or 2.
> After reading and seeing the pictures on this thread I am confident that I can mounting and wire the output transformer without an issue. It's been really helpful.
> 
> So it's as straightforward as fallows then.
> Mount and wire the OT. Put the tubes back in. Connect the speaker. Turn on. Let warm. Check plate voltage. Bias. And enjoy. If I have missed a step your input would be appreciated. Thanks


HAHA!

I changed my OT, never took the tubes out. No need.

Only time I have ever taken the tubes out was to change them...

Good luck. Follow the instructions best you can and you will be fine.

Here is the link to my OT swap:
http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...dsl40c-information-thread-73.html#post1232225
Here is the link to SkylarPilot's OT swap:
http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...dsl40c-information-thread-34.html#post1097387


----------



## ken361

Here's a setting to try, I saw posted on another thread comparing the 50 watt EVH against the JCM 2000 EVH type setting. He had the trb at 5, pres at 5 or so mids at 4 bass at 5 and resonance 5. I had my pres at 6 or so it sounded more open sounding. I think I like it better for now. I know most dont set the presence that high but it seems to work on mine fine with my speaker and guitar. Gain at 7 for me for that 80's rawk! Also noticed last week and today when I dimed the crunch channel I noticed a smell maybe like the electronics smell, not sure like a burning smell. I had the amp for 6 months and never noticed it before untill I dimed the crunch channel lastweek and today, hmm tubes look good and not to crazy hot coming from the chassic so im not sure.


----------



## MaidenStrat02

You definitely read into it wrong. I had a blown fuse situation due to mistakenly reversing two connectors when putting everything back into the chassis. There was no relation to the O.T. or Choke install at all. Measuring the Voltage at Pin 3 and the 2 red wires from the power tranny are your secondary's, which I had to check after replacing the fuse to make sure there was no damage.
BTW the reason I had the tubes out was because that was the stage at which I was reinstalling everything. I had the mainboard, choke and speaker outs only hooked up. I powered up to verify I had power. Then I installed all the other daughterboards and put in the tubes. During the hookup of the wires I reversed ground on the EL34 and it blew the fuse. 
I don't know how you plan on installing your O.T. and Choke but you will have to drill 4 holes to mount them, since I was doing a Cap swap it's necessary to remove everything. You need to at least take out the Main board to remove R111 and drill your mounting holes for the choke. Just write down all connections and double check before you remove it. Make sure you vacuum the inside well to get all the chips from drilling, you don't want any shorts. Anytime I'm working on my amp I always pull the tubes to avoid damage if there's an accident. I hope you are clear now on what my reasons where. If you aren't sure of something somebody posted ask them for clarification first so don't misquote what they have said.




Hildo said:


> Page 142 a post by Maidenstrat02. Starts with S.O.S. I guess I am reading to much and getting research overload. It got me confused.
> I can bias an amp and have swapped out tubes. Changed a cap or 2.
> After reading and seeing the pictures on this thread I am confident that I can mounting and wire the output transformer without an issue. It's been really helpful.
> 
> So it's as straightforward as fallows then.
> Mount and wire the OT. Put the tubes back in. Connect the speaker. Turn on. Let warm. Check plate voltage. Bias. And enjoy. If I have missed a step your input would be appreciated. Thanks


----------



## Hildo

Yeah, I had to re-read it to understand what was going on.Thanks the information is useful for sure. My only real concern is making sure the caps discharged enough. I got nailed before on one I know I discharged


----------



## recto-robbie

Hey all, I'm going to be buying some replacement el34's shortly and noticed the new JJ EL34 II being offered. I read their description but was wondering if any of you have tried them in the 40c and would like to know your thoughts. Compared to other el34's, from jj or any other brand for that matter. Thanks


----------



## Bownse

I had JJs in my 40c and reported the swap here. The bias it was running with the JJs was 78%. I am pleased with the tube swap and bias adjustment reported there.

http://www.marshallforum.com/workbench/71742-biasing-dsl40c.html#post1345948


----------



## Oldpunk

With so many tube choices/combos, how do you pick a starting point? Am looking for a little more sustain and thump. Running burstbuckers through a creamback.

Anyone try this combo? Preamp Tonekit 12AX7 (4) - Tone Kits - Tube Kits


----------



## Bownse

Oldpunk said:


> With so many tube choices/combos, how do you pick a starting point?



I read this whole thread and then read the whole pre-amp tube thread.

http://www.marshallforum.com/workbench/3824-preamp-tubes-who-what-when-where-why-how.html

Then, while reading it, I considered what the authors' goals were compared to mine and made a few notes. It saved me a lot of duplicate questions to the forum while also saving me some trial and error. I am nearly done but have some pre-amp tubed to roll (came in last week but company was here, so am only now ready to try) to see if I can get closer or if what I have is "there" for me.

So, in summary:

1. I read what's already here
2. I took notes as I went
C. I did some hands-on experimenting based on 1 and 2


----------



## Micky

Oldpunk said:


> With so many tube choices/combos, how do you pick a starting point? Am looking for a little more sustain and thump. Running burstbuckers through a creamback.
> 
> Anyone try this combo? Preamp Tonekit 12AX7 (4) - Tone Kits - Tube Kits



Like Bownse posted, you gotta do the research yourself. This is why you won't get a lot of suggestions other than 'I use a xxx in V1, etc.' People here have tried so many different combinations it is extremely difficult to recommend a set that will work for everyone.

You can, however, obtain some different preamp tubes yourself and 'roll' them in different positions to see which sound best to you.

It is a very subjective thing, and can be very different for each one of us.


----------



## Oldpunk

Thanks guys....now off to start my knowledge campaign.


----------



## Oldpunk

Im sure its been asked before but what are the stock valves? V1-V4

I just dont want to order the same tubes.

Listened to a clip of a Ruby 12AX7AC7 HG+ in V1 and it sounded great. I know its subjective but any other V1 suggestions perhaps?


----------



## ken361

Oldpunk said:


> Im sure its been asked before but what are the stock valves? V1-V4
> 
> I just dont want to order the same tubes.
> 
> Listened to a clip of a Ruby 12AX7AC7 HG+ in V1 and it sounded great. I know its subjective but any other V1 suggestions perhaps?



JJ 83 12ax7


----------



## ken361

The old stock tubes usually are warmer sounding I use a few, usually like 35.00 and up people like the Ruby and a Tungsol in the v1


----------



## Oldpunk

Thanks ken.


Well I just ordered a Ruby 12AX7AC7 HG+, a Tungsol RI and a Mullard RI from Dougs tubes. Looks like I will be getting my roll on next week. Should be interesting, am stoked! 


One more question....Where can I get some micro leads for my MM to bias with?


Thanks man!


----------



## John 14:6

ken361 said:


> Got mine from The Tube Monger


 Ken, how did the RFT' s work out for you and HAmmer?


----------



## ken361

Liked it in the v2 and the JJ 803. RFT when I had the stock speaker in for warmth. May try it again


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Oldpunk said:


> Im sure its been asked before but what are the stock valves? V1-V4
> 
> I just dont want to order the same tubes.
> 
> Listened to a clip of a Ruby 12AX7AC7 HG+ in V1 and it sounded great. I know its subjective but any other V1 suggestions perhaps?



Justvtried a Chinese, Sino I think, in V1 and got slightly more sustain than the old Mullard. RFT in V2. Try a new Ruby or other Chinese tube in V1.


----------



## HAmmer

John 14:6 said:


> Ken, how did the RFT' s work out for you and HAmmer?



I got mine sitting here, im waiting for my head cabinet to get here then i'll switch out the tubes


----------



## John 14:6

I just played my DSL40C for the first time live today at church. We played three services/sets and the DSL performed like a champ. The Celestion Creamback 65 is breaking in nicely and the RFT preamp tubes really help to give the amp a nice fat and warm sound. I have a Friedman Smallbox 50 on the way next week so I should be all set for amps for a long time.


----------



## Oldpunk

Cool deal John!

Yea I was cranking my DSL this morning and man its a beast for such a small amp. The CB65 combined with some burstbuckers makes for some serious screaming vintage tones. Will hopefully get even better with some tubes later this week. Kinda funny though to even think it needs it. We shall see how much difference it makes.


Got my eyes on ordering an Avatar 2X12 cab with some V30s to complete the package.


----------



## Hildo

I swapped my OT with a Classic tone and added a Classic tone choke. I had only 15 mins after I checked plate voltage and biased it to play. The result is phenomenal. The amp has really opened up. OMG the clean is unbelievable. Sounds clearer at lower volume. Has more sustain and more head room. The reverb quality has also improved. So I decided to check out half power. I was already on half power. So hopefully I just bumped the switch while returning the chassis to the cab. I will have re check the bias. Full power has punch. I had to stop. Very pleased couldn't have done it without the information provided from guys in this forum.


----------



## Oldpunk

Just got my tubes in, quick question, on the sides written in sharpie are a set of numbers. The ruby 12ax7ac7 hg+ has 100/100 and the tungsol has 110/105 written on it. What do these numbers mean?


----------



## ken361

I think its the gain measurement on each triod


----------



## Oldpunk

Thanks ken, so does that mean the tung sol is a hotter tube? Makes sense if it does after my findings after a couple hours of rolling.


So far Ive rolled V1 with the stock tube, then the ruby and tungsol with all other valves stock. Theres is a definate difference between the three. The ruby is more melow/warm sounding while not having the volume of the tungsol, which has a brighter, sharper attack. I like certain aspects of them both. I then tried the tungsol in V2 with the ruby in V1, got more of the blend, then switched to the tungsol in V1 and ruby in V2 and thats the one I am liking the most (for now, what did I get myself into? lol) . It has the bite of the tungsol and warmth backbone of the ruby. The clean channel is full bodied as well.



Kinda feel like this is old news for a lot of people here but its the first time Ive chased tone by rolling some tubes and I can quickly tell this can be both rewarding and frustrating. Am gonna open it up tonight and see at stage volume how it holds up since I couldnt really crank it too loud today.


----------



## ken361

I went back to my old tungsol in the v1 and warm it up with the JJ 803 v3 Mullard/Penta tube and a Slyvania PI the Slyvania is the best PI tube I found out of my stash. Playing loud is the best way to dial it in because its gotta sound best when cranked.


----------



## Oldpunk

So can anyone confirm the numbers being the gain measurement and/or explain it in laymans terms what it translates to? Just wanting to learn more.


Appreciate it as always.


----------



## Micky

It is generally the transconductance numbers measured by the tube tester.
There are 2 numbers on each 12AX tube to indicate the strength of each side i.e. how balanced they are. You can ask the people who tested the tubes exactly what the numbers mean, but without any other indication as to what was measured you cannot draw any direct correlation to anything.


----------



## HAmmer

John 14:6 said:


> Ken, how did the RFT' s work out for you and HAmmer?



Just played them and im very happy 
they really added some extra bite


----------



## ken361

Last weekend I put back the Jan GE in the V1  keeps the Lead 1 in check best for me.


----------



## maxime1122

I'm now in the club!


----------



## Hildo

Wow I like that basket-weave and Marshall badge.


----------



## ken361

Been running my mids at 7 and bass at 3 trb 6 res at 5 seems more balanced now,but having a warmer v1 helps Lead 2 today ripped metal tones


----------



## Rahlstin

I run 4 Tungsol 12Ax7's and two JJ KT77's Amp sounds killer through a G12M65 Creamback.


----------



## ken361

When I play at my girls condo my amp sounds fuller and warmer some, finished basement, carpet on the floor, newly built,drop ceiling and amp set few from the wall. My house built in 1960 unfinished basement, tile on floor and amp not set to the wall because too much crap behind it what im saying amp setting will vary to one place to another some. At my house maybe dropping the mids some and add bass fills it out more. You guys that gig you change your eq at all when playing diff places?


----------



## Rahlstin

ken361 said:


> When I play at my girls condo my amp sounds fuller and warmer some, finished basement, carpet on the floor, newly built,drop ceiling and amp set few from the wall. My house built in 1960 unfinished basement, tile on floor and amp not set to the wall because too much crap behind it what im saying amp setting will vary to one place to another some. At my house maybe dropping the mids some and add bass fills it out more. You guys that gig you change your eq at all when playing diff places?



I change my eq to what ever it needs to sound good in what ever room but for the most part indoor show are minor tweeks . Outdoor shows seem to require a lot more eq change than most indoor shows.


----------



## Pumpkin88

Sounds good on top of a 4x12.


----------



## HAmmer

I agree 100%


----------



## 60Cycle

I've been tinkering with mine lately since Marshall has my AFD. It responds dramatically to tube and speaker changes. I've finally leveled out and quit chasing a tone, it's where it's going to stay. The TAD Premium 7025 in 1 and Tung Sol in the other 3 with the Marshall Vintage with TubeScreamer boosting the green channel a hair past a third on the drive level and tone dimed, green channel gain dimed volume at 5 or better. Not too bassy, not to thin and bitey just perfect, the tone I had in my head all this time.


----------



## mpereira

Just recorded another song with my DSL40C: Lord of This World by Black Sabbath!

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tOE3Uc8u1k[/ame]

Still in love with this amp.


----------



## ken361

Anyone using a Bad Monkey pedal to boost the crunch channel


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

ken361 said:


> Anyone using a Bad Monkey pedal to boost the crunch channel



You betcha! It's actually on most of the time. I've always liked the pedal but it really came alive when I got my DSL40C. Great pedal thru this amp.


----------



## lordquilton

ken361 said:


> Anyone using a Bad Monkey pedal to boost the crunch channel



http://www.marshallforum.com/tone-zone/68941-monkey-bd2-take-stroll.html


----------



## ken361

I will listen Monday thanks,retains the bass? true bypass? Interfere with signal at all when off?


----------



## Rahlstin

I like the Celestion G12M65 so much in my DSL40C that ive put a quad of em in my cab for it and the DSL100H.


----------



## MarshallDog

Yes, I love the G12M-65 Creamback also.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Bad Monkey FTW!! Yep, the 2 band EQ means you can set your bass. Use it all the time on green crunch, pinned level, zero gain.


----------



## lordquilton

ken361 said:


> I will listen Monday thanks,retains the bass? true bypass? Interfere with signal at all when off?



Sorry, in a rush. Not my clip, solarburn's.
If I remember correctly, it's the Bad Monkey into Green channel classic mode, not crunch mode.


----------



## Joe_sun

So been playing with my DSL40c and couldn't leave enough alone. I ordered an Avatar 2x12 for it which I'm waiting for it to be delivered and then I've been playing with rolling some tubes.

I have a Gold Lion ECC83 and from what I understand this is just a rebranded TAD 7025-S, a Mullard and Tung Sol reissue.

I put the Gold Lion in V1 the Tung Sol in V2, left the stock V3 and put the Mullard in V4.

I hated it. It seemed to take the growl out of the amp, really mellowed it out. I played with it for less than an hour before swapping back in the stock tubes and now I'm much happier but it doesn't sound quite the same. I should have marked the stock tubes as I pulled them maybe I have an extra hot one that used to be in V1.

Maybe I'll try the Tung Sol in v1 later for kicks to see what it does.


----------



## ken361

Mullard in the PI might of did it, I use to use a Sovtek LPS in a few amps. NOS Slyvania works great the PI for me and smoothed the red channel some too. I found the the Tungs and the Golds were very similar in tone. I find them best as a V1, you could use the Tungsol in the v2 it may brighten the red a little thats why I kinda like the JJ803 its a little warmer and has some low end. The Mullard in the v2 might work well you have to see! its best to have all kinds of tubes on hand some amps like certain tubes over others but the Tungs you cant go wrong unless you get some good old stocks.


----------



## Joe_sun

ken361 said:


> Mullard in the PI might of did it, I use to use a Sovtek LPS in a few amps. NOS Slyvania works great the PI for me and smoothed the red channel some too. I found the the Tungs and the Golds were very similar in tone. I find them best as a V1, you could use the Tungsol in the v2 it may brighten the red a little thats why I kinda like the JJ803 its a little warmer and has some low end. The Mullard in the v2 might work well you have to see! its best to have all kinds of tubes on hand some amps like certain tubes over others but the Tungs you cant go wrong unless you get some good old stocks.



Thanks for the info I'll try just swapping out the V1 and see where that takes me. For the NOS Slyvania should I be looking for a black or gray plate or does it matter or should I seek out someone to buy one?


----------



## ken361

Joe_sun said:


> Thanks for the info I'll try just swapping out the V1 and see where that takes me. For the NOS Slyvania should I be looking for a black or gray plate or does it matter or should I seek out someone to buy one?



I use the long grey plate Baldwins/Slyvania, lot of people like the black plate for the v2 they can be pricy though. I look for smoothness you when your playing at higher volumes. If you drop a weak tube say the v1 your distortion will be kinda muddy and that so I keep switching to find the smoothest and less bright/harsh tube for the job


----------



## Oldpunk

I really dig the tone I get from a tungsol RI in V1 and a Ruby AC7HG+ in V2 with the stock jj's in the rest. Try it in V1, youll either love it or hate it. Mullard in V2 perhaps as well.

I noticed that the stock marshall tube (jj) that used to be in V1 has two red/orange dots on the crown of it that the others dont have. Maybe look to see if yours has that too, might mean its a hotter tube best for the v1 position or something?


----------



## Micky

Oldpunk said:


> I noticed that the stock marshall tube (jj) that used to be in V1 has two red/orange dots on the crown of it that the others dont have.



It means low microphonics. Suitable for V1...


----------



## Joe_sun

Oldpunk said:


> I really dig the tone I get from a tungsol RI in V1 and a Ruby AC7HG+ in V2 with the stock jj's in the rest. Try it in V1, youll either love it or hate it. Mullard in V2 perhaps as well.
> 
> I noticed that the stock marshall tube (jj) that used to be in V1 has two red/orange dots on the crown of it that the others dont have. Maybe look to see if yours has that too, might mean its a hotter tube best for the v1 position or something?



Awesome I had it in V2

Put the Tungsol in V1 and I'm liking it. Subtle difference, nothing like changing a speaker but you can hear it. Less harsh but still has the growl I love. Going to play around I think just with V1 and once I like that I can go from there.

/edit

BTW here's the exact cabinet I bought. Yeah it's non traditional but I got a great deal on it over having it built to match the Marshal. It's the Bat Cab!


----------



## Oldpunk

Micky said:


> It means low microphonics. Suitable for V1...



Ah, ok, so thats it! 


Thanks for the knowledge.


----------



## Oldpunk

Joe_sun said:


> Awesome I had it in V2
> 
> Put the Tungsol in V1 and I'm liking it. Subtle difference, nothing like changing a speaker but you can hear it. Less harsh but still has the growl I love. Going to play around I think just with V1 and once I like that I can go from there.
> 
> /edit
> 
> BTW here's the exact cabinet I bought. Yeah it's non traditional but I got a great deal on it over having it built to match the Marshal. It's the Bat Cab!



Cool, glad you are liking the Tungsol in V1 as well.

Hey I was checking out that cab this weekend on Ebay, you got it huh? Nice!
Just recently got to run mine through 4 V30's and absolutely loved it. Youre gonna dig those V30s paired with the 40c..


----------



## Joe_sun

I rolled some tubes into V1 today and this is what I've found.

The JJ is surprisingly dark (I didn't feel it was dark at all before this test) yet a tad harsh. The highs don't ring as clear.

Tung Sol: This is my favorite by far of the 3 tubes, it has good gain, good crunch and growl and notes ring clear. The highs are defined but don't sound harsh to me. I seem to be getting an early EVH sound on Lead 1 which is what I'm into right now.

The Gold Lion ECC83 has good sound, it's not dark like the JJ but it doesn't seem to have as much gain as the Tung Sol, it sounds okay but doesn't match my hard rock style.

I guess my next step is to try the Gold Lion in V2 and see what happens. Oh my cab gets delivered tomorrow


----------



## ken361

sound samples


----------



## Joe_sun

ken361 said:


> sound samples



I've got a cell phone


----------



## solarburn

^^^All I record with is my cell phone. Just need to find the sweet spot to put it. I've found with my 100 watters at volume the sweet spot was over 20ft away.LOL

Believe it or not the clip turns out enough to get an idea of how it sounds.


----------



## Bownse

Blue Yeti Pro usb mic?


----------



## Joe_sun

Got the 2x12 Avatar with Vintage 30s in today. OMG it's so freaking LOUD. I seriously didn't expect this, I've been running the combo with an extension cab but I guess the Vintage 30s are just way more efficient than the creamback and the Blackheart 1x12. My ears hurt and that's with me trying to keep the volume down but it just needs to be at least a certain volume to get the tone. Played around with the 20 watt settings and it sucks all the tone out.

Sound is way way different. Once again it takes me time to get used to changes in my tone so I won't say I hate it even thou I miss some of the character of the creamback, it seemed to break up nicer but it was more broken in. Obviously the bass is tighter but since these are brand new speakers they need some serious break in time all over again.

Just gotta keep playing over the next week or so to see what I like.


----------



## Cajun Player

OMG. I put my Bad Monkey in the chain and did what everyone else suggested... Ok, I'm 62 yrs old and have played for a long time... The tone of the DSL40C (broken in) and my LP remind me of songs I heard a very long time ago.
Being old has its advantages.. My hearing isn't the best but, the sound is spot on from the very late 60's and early 70's
Thank you Marshall


----------



## ken361

Cajun Player said:


> OMG. I put my Bad Monkey in the chain and did what everyone else suggested... Ok, I'm 62 yrs old and have played for a long time... The tone of the DSL40C (broken in) and my LP remind me of songs I heard a very long time ago.
> Being old has its advantages.. My hearing isn't the best but, the sound is spot on from the very late 60's and early 70's
> Thank you Marshall



Sweet im 51, going to try to get the pedal on the weekend!


----------



## ken361

I like the red but the greens voicing is spot on classic rock


----------



## dave999z

wolfpack said:


> Vintage model is waking up  & having a full cup of HOT Les Paul



Very cool. Anyone know where you can pick up a vintage looking Marshall badge like that (without buying a vintage version DSL40c)? I'd love to change my grille cloth, but I'd want to have a cool badge like that to put on it.


----------



## Joe_sun

So I've got a Bad Monkey laying around I don't use, it's actually up for sale on Ebay but nobody has bid on it. I like the way it sounds except it's a giant tone suck when it's turned off so you pretty much have to keep it on at all times.

Well I went ahead and hooked it up and I agree, you get a nice nasty growl on the crunch channel with it. I might even prefer it over the red.


----------



## ken361

Joe_sun said:


> So I've got a Bad Monkey laying around I don't use, it's actually up for sale on Ebay but nobody has bid on it. I like the way it sounds except it's a giant tone suck when it's turned off so you pretty much have to keep it on at all times.
> 
> Well I went ahead and hooked it up and I agree, you get a nice nasty growl on the crunch channel with it. I might even prefer it over the red.



I was afraid of that tone suck not being true bypass, I bet a Suhr KOKO boost would work awesome though. Red boosted too much I bet huh


----------



## maxime1122

Quick question guys.. I'm still using my DSL40CV with the stock 70/80, it's good, but it's a bit muddy and thin sometimes. I'm still working on the EQ, gain settings, etc. What's the consensus now, Creamback? V30?


----------



## Joe_sun

maxime1122 said:


> Quick question guys.. I'm still using my DSL40CV with the stock 70/80, it's good, but it's a bit muddy and thin sometimes. I'm still working on the EQ, gain settings, etc. What's the consensus now, Creamback? V30?



I have both, I have the creamback in the amp and a sealed 2x12 with the V30. Gotta say I think I really like the creamback more. the V30 cab is much darker sounding and the creamback sounds more Marshall flavored to my ears. I was going to move the creamback into the cab and see how it sounds but I need some free time to do that.


----------



## Bownse

Creamback 75w here and loving it. (see sig block)


----------



## newplayeroldguy

maxime1122 said:


> Quick question guys.. I'm still using my DSL40CV with the stock 70/80, it's good, but it's a bit muddy and thin sometimes. I'm still working on the EQ, gain settings, etc. What's the consensus now, Creamback? V30?



I put a WGS Reaper HP in mine, huge improvement


----------



## twodaysago

If I don't have a soldering iron to remove the c19 with can I just clip it? does that tame the treble a bit ?


----------



## dave999z

newplayeroldguy said:


> I put a WGS Reaper HP in mine, huge improvement



I put a WGS Invader in mine. It's excellent (yes big improvement).


----------



## HAmmer

twodaysago said:


> If I don't have a soldering iron to remove the c19 with can I just clip it? does that tame the treble a bit ?



post #6
http://www.marshallforum.com/marshall-amps/53780-official-marshall-dsl40c-information-thread.html


----------



## MarshallDog

HAmmer said:


> post #6
> http://www.marshallforum.com/marshall-amps/53780-official-marshall-dsl40c-information-thread.html



Yes and yes...


----------



## wolfpack

Bownse said:


> Creamback 75w here and loving it. (see sig block)



I recently changed to this one also

Wow
Holy balls tone


----------



## ken361

Joe_sun said:


> So I've got a Bad Monkey laying around I don't use, it's actually up for sale on Ebay but nobody has bid on it. I like the way it sounds except it's a giant tone suck when it's turned off so you pretty much have to keep it on at all times.
> 
> Well I went ahead and hooked it up and I agree, you get a nice nasty growl on the crunch channel with it. I might even prefer it over the red.



Brown sound?


----------



## Cajun Player

I put my Bad Monkey into the chain and did not get the tone suck reported. I've listened with and without, on and off... No real difference except for the great tone when turned on. I have also A/B with a FulTone OCD and a Boss Blues Driver. For the Marshall only, the Bad Monkey is best. For my Fender amps the Blues driver rules. For my Peavey amps the OCD is the best. All very different tones. Of course I use different guitars with all the different amps.. Too many variables to subscribe tone to only the Pedal. Different strokes for different folks.
YRMV...
cajun


----------



## ken361

Going to get one now doing a trade for the stock speaker prb have to throw 10 bucks in for a used BM


----------



## HAmmer

*Wampler Plextortion Overdrive Pedal*


----------



## Jethro Rocker

ken361 said:


> I was afraid of that tone suck not being true bypass, I bet a Suhr KOKO boost would work awesome though. Red boosted too much I bet huh



I leave Monkey on, run gain on green crunch around 7 and red 1 gain 4 ish, it works great depending upon what you want tonally.


----------



## ken361

Just picked one up for 35 mint going to test it now and play loud Sat will report!


----------



## ken361

sounds really good and natural at bedrooms levels so far!


----------



## Jethro Rocker

I really like the 2 band EQ. I will be getting a custom OFA version at some point.


----------



## ken361

Dummy me was using the wrong output wonder why when I turned the level down the amp got more quiet and it wasnt stepping on the amps OD lol . Input 1 is the top one Edit I guess I was right the first time just read the manual


----------



## ken361

So you keep the level up and keep the gain low right? how are you setting yours up?


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Yep. I pin the level and gain zero, EQ to taste. It really pushes the front, works great with the TSL as well. I like custom tayloring the tone up front too. Gives another sound to the amp with Monkey off or on.


----------



## Micky

Jethro Rocker said:


> Yep. I pin the level and gain zero, EQ to taste. It really pushes the front, works great with the TSL as well. I like custom tayloring the tone up front too. Gives another sound to the amp with Monkey off or on.



Almost like a 3-channel amp.


----------



## Rahlstin

The DSL100H going to work last night. Note the full size Marshall logo. Sounds better with a full size logo lol. Doing an outdoor show tonight but will have the DSL40C for that one. 

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd279/Rahlstin/IMG_0632.jpg


----------



## Micky

Rahlstin said:


> Sounds better with a full size logo



I agree...


----------



## Rahlstin

Well been using the DSL40C for about 10 months now and the DSL100H for about 5 months and they both are very satisfying amplifiers. I've had a lot of amps, some sounded great for one place but not the next or this song yes but this song no.... These two amplifiers fit what ever I need to play. First time in about 35 years I"ve finally found an amplifier that satisfies my ears and what I hear in my head. From deadass 2 chord country to modern rock and beyond they deliver and so far, no issues at all. I think I might sell of my 2005 JCM2000. Its good but not near this good.


----------



## ledvedder

I'm looking for tube recommendations to compliment a VH type of tone. I'm running through a greenback loaded 212 which gets me very close. I think the tubes may be the final tweak. I'm currently using a Tungsol in v1, jj's the rest. Ruby EL34BSTR's for power.


----------



## ken361

ledvedder said:


> I'm looking for tube recommendations to compliment a VH type of tone. I'm running through a greenback loaded 212 which gets me very close. I think the tubes may be the final tweak. I'm currently using a Tungsol in v1, jj's the rest. Ruby EL34BSTR's for power.



I like VH too I stuck a Tung in the V1 yesterday and I had a JJ803 v2 for some slight warmth. I had a older Goldlion I wasnt using and put that in the v3 and a Slyvania for the PI excellent tube there. I think the stock tubes add more ugly and some what muddy and raspy high end so I would dump those. I would really like to hear those greenbacks if can record something


----------



## skidbrake

maxime1122 said:


> Quick question guys.. I'm still using my DSL40CV with the stock 70/80, it's good, but it's a bit muddy and thin sometimes. I'm still working on the EQ, gain settings, etc. What's the consensus now, Creamback? V30?


I installed an Eminence Legend GB128 in my DSL40C and absolutely love what it does for this amp. It delivers everything from clean green channel jazz tones to full scale red channel filth. A great value, too. FWIW.


----------



## ken361

skidbrake said:


> I installed an Eminence Legend GB128 in my DSL40C and absolutely love what it does for this amp. It delivers everything from clean green channel jazz tones to full scale red channel filth. A great value, too. FWIW.



had one in blues deluxe it worked well


----------



## Jethro Rocker

ken361 said:


> I like VH too I stuck a Tung in the V1 yesterday and I had a JJ803 v2 for some slight warmth. I had a older Goldlion I wasnt using and put that in the v3 and a Slyvania for the PI excellent tube there. I think the stock tubes add more ugly and some what muddy and raspy high end so I would dump those. I would really like to hear those greenbacks if can record something



I believe the stock tubes are JJs. I put a Chinese tube in V2 and could actually hear a slight bit more sustain. I have NOS tubes all around otherwise.


----------



## ken361

Jethro Rocker said:


> I believe the stock tubes are JJs. I put a Chinese tube in V2 and could actually hear a slight bit more sustain. I have NOS tubes all around otherwise.



The stocks are JJ 83's the 803 isnt bad


----------



## ledvedder

Today, I ordered a Mullard for v2 and a Sovtek LPS for v4. I'm hoping they'll mesh well with the Tungsol I have in v1.


----------



## solarburn

skidbrake said:


> I installed an Eminence Legend GB128 in my DSL40C and absolutely love what it does for this amp. It delivers everything from clean green channel jazz tones to full scale red channel filth. A great value, too. FWIW.



Awesome sounding GB speaker from Eminence. Gets over looked IMO.


----------



## solarburn

ken361 said:


> So you keep the level up and keep the gain low right? how are you setting yours up?



On my clip I had the amp on clean not crunch and maxed the gain on the amp. Then with the pedal I added gain and EQ'd to taste. Different then boosting the crunch or using it as a clean boost.

It was pretty cool tone and feel I thought. Usually though I clean boost with the BM.


----------



## ken361

solarburnDSL50 said:


> On my clip I had the amp on clean not crunch and maxed the gain on the amp. Then with the pedal I added gain and EQ'd to taste. Different then boosting the crunch or using it as a clean boost.
> 
> It was pretty cool tone and feel I thought. Usually though I clean boost with the BM.



I tried a bunch of ways, I kinda didnt like it pushing the speaker too much! I prefer the natural amps sound. Then later I tried just the clean channel and had a real nice natural crunch sound. Not sure if im keeping it though, it didnt suck much tone but I use the red a lot and use the crunch as a low gainer. Would like to try a higher quality one thats true bypass.


----------



## ricky711

New to the forum, just received a DSL40c. I played one many months ago and it seemed to have potential. I usually do a tube swap, but I do have to say I wound up liking the stock so far. Came with TAD EL34. Don't want to clip C19 just yet. So far I've tried a G12H, GB128 & an English Greenback. Greenback was my favorite but don't want to blow it! Now waiting on a Celestion V-type.


----------



## ken361

ricky711 said:


> New to the forum, just received a DSL40c. I played one many months ago and it seemed to have potential. I usually do a tube swap, but I do have to say I wound up liking the stock so far. Came with TAD EL34. Don't want to clip C19 just yet. So far I've tried a G12H, GB128 & an English Greenback. Greenback was my favorite but don't want to blow it! Now waiting on a Celestion V-type.



Wonder how much the greenback can actually take i know its 25 watts though. How loud you have the red? pretty brownish?


----------



## ricky711

Settings with 1 Greenback
Green/crunch - gain 10 vol 6 eq 5 except bass which is 1 classic rock crunch
Red 2 engaged (not liking 1) - gain 2-3 vol 5-6 all eq 5 brownish

Just tried 2x12 cab with Greenbacks and boosted treble to 6-7 very nice!


----------



## ken361

ricky711 said:


> Settings with 1 Greenback
> Green/crunch - gain 10 vol 6 eq 5 except bass which is 1 classic rock crunch
> Red 2 engaged (not liking 1) - gain 2-3 vol 5-6 all eq 5 brownish
> 
> Just tried 2x12 cab with Greenbacks and boosted treble to 6-7 very nice!



still handles the power huh, that's most I run mine and its a 80 watt warehouse speaker


----------



## ricky711

V-type arrived and installed.
All I can say is wow! 
Each channel has improved.
Brighter than Greenback while retaining the mid crunch, but no top end fizz of the Seventy 80.
I had played this speaker once before and was very impressed.


----------



## gemineye76

The DSL40C is an absolutely outstanding amp, and a few mods later, even better! 

- C19 cap mod / speaker replacement / 
- JJ ECC803S gold-pin in V1 / Sovtek 12AX7LPS in phase 


Gibson Les Paul Studio (2003 - stripped the wine red and walnut stained/shellac + wood truss rod cover. Stock pickups

> 

Electro Harmonix Big Muff Pi; Russian (Whizzer twin-toggle mod) 
- used as alt. distortion on clean channel
Earthquaker Devices Bit Commander synth
DOD FX70 flanger (vintage 80s)
Moen Shaky Jimi vibe-chorus
MXR Carbon Copy Delay
(Voodoo Labs ISO5 pedal power)

- Marshall DSL40C
- Celestion G12H Vintage 30 (Hellatone 60 by avatar)
- Marshall JCMC12 Extension Cab
- Celestion G12H30 Heritage (Hellatone 30 by avatar)


----------



## Micky

gemineye76 said:


> The DSL40C is an absolutely outstanding amp, and a few mods later, even better!
> 
> - cap mod / speaker replacement /
> - JJ ECC803S gold-pin in V1 / Sovtek 12AX7WB in phase



Hell, those are the EASY mods...


----------



## Bownse

Easy is good. Best to tackle the easy stuff and see if it's where you want to be before pulling the motor, swapping oil pickups, pan gaskets, engine mounts, etc. only to find out that it was the clogged small plastic tube to the oil pressure gauge that was the problem.

Wait... we were talking about amps, weren't we?


----------



## Joe_sun

Wasn't super loving the dual V30s, it was giving me a very metal sound which was cool but made my Marshall sound like more like a 5150 than I wanted it to so I'm now running a V30 and a creamback in the Avatar 2x12. I think it's sounding pretty good even thou I've read this combo is supposed to suck. 

Avatar is selling their own branded Hellatone 25 that's supposed to sound awesome with the V30 for 62.00 shipped right now.
Hellatone 25 Ceramic | Avatar Speakers

I'm really fighting the urge not to grab one at that price.


----------



## ken361

Anyone running a T Rex Crunchy Frog? Can get one on a trade for the Bad Monkey and its true bypass. Prb grab it Sat.


----------



## Oldpunk

Dont like the BM?


----------



## Joe_sun

Oldpunk said:


> Dont like the BM?



The BM sounds awesome but is a giant tone suck


----------



## ken361

Its not bad but it still messed with my red 1 some which I used most.And not being true bypass. Pushed cleans were good have to admit. This other pedal I can blend the crunch to the amps crunch but will see. If your not into the red the pushed green is really good. If was working now I would just invest in a better quality pedal to try out. Sometimes I dont like adding stuff into the mix it just takes away the amps natural tone, only really like a delay to have. The amp has a great crunch and high gain settings I just like to push the crunch more


----------



## Muziekschuur

Try digitech screaming blues or a boost pedal. I assume the bad monkey can boost alone too?


----------



## ken361

It adds OD to your sound, so yeah it boost


----------



## ricky711

Luvin' the tone of this amp with C19 mod and Celestion V-type!


----------



## Natedog_37

Are you using the BM with the red channel? I only use it on green for a little extra push and so far love it.


----------



## ken361

green only, going to trade it this weekend


----------



## Natedog_37

ken361 said:


> green only, going to trade it this weekend



Uh. Going to try it as a boost only this week. Need more kick on my solos.


----------



## ken361

I ran the Crunchy Frog Sunday for about 2 hrs, I like the clean boost side it works good. Also can run the crunch side at the same time,clean boost retains more low end though. It sounds like the BM a lot but with very little tone sucking. Then I plugged the One spot in and noticed some change in the bypass tone and remembered why I stopped using it! and I sold my power supply 6 months ago and I guess will have use a battery for awhile pushed crunch is awesome though.


----------



## Natedog_37

Cool. user my BM just as a booster. Works great on the clean not so great on Red channel.


----------



## ken361

Yeah the reds fine as it is,im now running my EQ all at 5 and bass at 3. Tungsol in the V1 and so on. Warehouse speaker has prb 50 hrs on it, amps sounding great. Love to blast a 100 watter with a 412 damm, with greens


----------



## Natedog_37

Just need to find me a cheap boost pedal I think and leave the BM to just help with the clean when I want a little crunch.


----------



## TheSunShinesThrough

Can anybody help me find a good setting for pinch harmonics without my amp screeching every two seconds?


----------



## ken361

run the gain at 7 tops EQ every thing at 5 to taste maybe back the bass off some


----------



## TheSunShinesThrough

Thanks bro.


----------



## TheSunShinesThrough

Ken, I just got done shredding for the last half an hour with those settings and my roommate stopped me and said it sounds really good. Thanks man!


----------



## ken361

TheSunShinesThrough said:


> Ken, I just got done shredding for the last half an hour with those settings and my roommate stopped me and said it sounds really good. Thanks man!



If you run lead 2 try the gain around 5 or little less its works for me bass 3


----------



## TheSunShinesThrough

That's exactly what I did Ken. Gain 6, bass 3, treble 7 - everything else at 5. Volume 10!


----------



## Joe_sun

ken361 said:


> Yeah the reds fine as it is,im now running my EQ all at 5 and bass at 3. Tungsol in the V1 and so on. Warehouse speaker has prb 50 hrs on it, amps sounding great. Love to blast a 100 watter with a 412 damm, with greens



So I thought, cool I'll check out these settings on my amp, and I just checked. Including the preamp tube my setttings are almost identical I just have the bass at 4 instead of 3 lol


----------



## Jethro Rocker

With the C19 clip, I often run mid at 6.5 or so, brings out the squeals really well. Red 1 gain 7 or pushed with BM gain about 4.


----------



## ken361

Think it depends were the amps placed at in the house or stage, I get a fatter tone at my girls house so EQ could change some opposed to my house


----------



## Rebel420

Good lord! Still catching up on this thread...after 3 days reading, finally up to page 103! I know... How many good guitar playing hours have I burned through lol! 

Have a few comments about the c19 mod  (or if you've ever wandered over to the Soldano camp, the "Warren Haynes mod", or as what the fender folks like to call the "Bright Switch") 

Love this place though. Very impressed with how y'all play nicely together with no trolling yet that I've seen 

Also impressed with the number of folks dipping into the DIY amp maintenance/modding-- and the emphasis on safety . 

Ok. Back to reading...more later!


----------



## ken361

Today got to jam out loud at home with boost on, first ran it on red 1 sounded better then I would of thought! just cant run it too loud or your going to get some squeal, didn't loose too much thickness but gained some more tight defined tone sorta EVH type and that's what I like Green had to turn the boost a tad more for the extra break up it sounded nice. This time I ran the guitar into the pedal then the output used a Mogami patch cable into the amp for less tone loss! its my only pedal so it no biggie putting the pedal on top of the amp. Really digging it so far!

I have a MIM strat with stock pups and when boosting it on the red 1 it really brought out that Hendrix or Texas rock out more. I have to try it out loud yet, I bet some nice alnico pickups will kill with this amp!


----------



## Rebel420

Welllllllll I made it through all 148 pages! Not sure if I deserve a prize or professional help!

Some good stuff, and a few musings on the "C19" mod. Some of this some or most of y'all know, so please know that I'm not trying to,talk down to anyone. But if someone learns something great, and hopefully it may help those on the fence about doing the mod or not.

C19 simply gives the high frequencies around the gain knob in the red channel. It affects both modes, just as C4 does to the green channel. This is identical to what engaging the bright switch on a Fender amp does. Soldano amps also have this bright cap on their heads, and removing it is the "Warren Haynes mod". There is a caveat to this bright cap. That is, the effects of this cap become less pronounced as the volume pot is turned up, as the rest of the frequencies are attenuated less at this point. Due to how the gain pot is tapered, when the gain is at the halfway point, about 90% of the effects of this cap are gone. Most of our hearing would have a hard time discerning the effects beyond this point.

The assumption was most likely made, that folks would be running the green channel a bit lower on the gain, and running the gain a bit higher on the red channel...so to balance the 2 sounds, they used a smaller value cap for C4 (for a less pronounced effect at lower gain settings), and the larger value cap for higher gain settings in the red channel. 

So. Why do some feel the C19 mod is needed, and others do not? 
-- If you run the amp with lower gain settings in the green channel, and higher gain in the red (or gains about the same place on the dial), you probably would not notice the improvement by cutting C19, in fact, you would be afraid to do so. 
-- If you are someone who runs the gain pretty high on the green channel, but really low on the red channel, then the mismatch will be VERY pronounced, and you may want to consider the mod. 
-- If you run your gain mid gin or higher in green, and around the midpoint give or take in the red channel, then you may benefit from a lower value cap for C19

Again, though, everybody's ears are different, everybody's guitars are different, tube choices and speaker also come in to play. Am I saying this is a good or a bad mod to make? No. But it's not something that should be a bandwagon thing..or considered before you play the amp, play with the eq and your settings, and find out what you really want first. Also don't be afraid to set the gain a touch higher than you normally would in the red channel to,warm it up, but roll back your volume or use softer touch to clean it up.

Believe me, I've taken a lot of money from folks over the years who sent me amps that were modified by the hot modder of the day, only to have me put the amp back to stock.

For me, at this point, I'm probably not doing the mod yet as I'm happy with what I have. I will probably eventually go with a 3-pos toggle between stock, no cap and a lesser value, just for variety. 
And yes, even though I do my own work, I still wouldn't want to void the warranty for a while at least. Want to ensure nothing like a bad board or bad digital switching array rears its head. 

I like being able to to have a nice blues crunch for stuff like Allman brothers, or even early Rush--( "that 70's sound!") that cleans up with the volume, and takes a boost, and then being able to kick a switch and be in 80's high-gain hair band heaven. As it is out of the box, this amp delivers it for me!

For reference (further explaining why I'm ok with leaving c19 in), my settings:
Speaker: Creamback 65
Tubes: Stock
no mods to amp
Green gain: 7-8
green crunch mode: in
Green volume: as needed
Red gain: 6-7
Lead mode: 1 or 2, depending on mood, but normally on 1 to take a boost
Red volume: as needed
Bass: 5-1/2
mid: 4-1/2
Treble 5
Tone shift: out
Presence: 2
Resonance: 4

Booster (used on-demand) - hand built TS-9 type:
Gain: 3-1/2
Tone: 1 (or 5, depending on mood)
Volume: 8

What I haven't seen in the 148 pages of posts were any mods to the reverb driver circuit. I understand why they are not driving it too hard (digital distortion not good lol), but I do plan on playing around with R61/R62 combo to bump up the gain of the reverb recovery stage to get a little more depth out of it...but that has to wait until I have the chassis open for a bias job etc.


----------



## Micky

First of all, congrats for reading this thread. It is my opinion that this should be required reading for any 40c owner, and I am not saying this because I created this thread.

I have 'significant' time and resources invested in mine, and I felt it was my duty to help others, more importantly let others help others getting things modded to their taste. You guys would not believe the PM's and emails I receive about this, as well as how many new members have joined here because of this thread and all the contributions we have made to it. Note I said 'we', because without all of you this thread would just be the random psychobabble of my late night insomnia sessions...

As you can see (read) there are many opinions about the C19 subject. The reason for this is first - tone is very subjective, and what I hear might be different from what you hear as well as interpret as 'good'. Second, there are a multitude of different tube and speaker combinations out there, and all of that has a definite impact on the perceived tone.

For example, with a bright speaker like the Seventy/80, there is an abundance of highs on the Ultra channel, and in combination with the stock OEM tubes that can sometimes be unbearable. Change the speaker, and it is instantly different, same way with changing tubes to, say, JJ's which tend to be darker. This is why there are a lot of different opinions about clipping or changing C19.

Modding the amp voids the warranty, plain and simple. If you need to retain the warranty don't mod your amp. If you need to change the sound of the amp without voiding your warranty, get a 16-ohm cab that suits your liking.

If you are comfortable working on hi-voltage circuits, and don't care about the warranty, then by all means, follow all safety procedures and mod away!

Rebel, it sounds like you are a bit familiar with the circuit, and to answer your questions directly, my opinion is as follows:

C19 is there for a reason, and depending on the speaker you have installed depends on the value I would put there. For me, I have 'extensively' modded mine, so I should not serve as a 'model' or source for your search of the ultimate tone. OT, choke, 6550's and an Eminence Man-O-War speaker have turned my 40c into a fire-breathing beast, far more powerful than the original and more suited to the classic rock I love.

As far as modding the reverb circuit, this is the reason this thread exists. It exists as a repository for those who choose to record the mods and experiments they choose to perform to help others get the most from their 40c as well.

I have not experimented much with the reverb driver circuit, it has not been that important to me and I already have Fender amps I use when I need reverb and crystal-clear cleans that the 40c doesn't seem to deliver.

I did in fact notice a big difference in the reverb when I changed finals to the TAD EL34b STR, it suddenly became much more noticeable, probably because of the increased frequency response of the new finals.

So feel free to populate this thread with your mods, use lots of clear, in-focus photos as well as explicit documentation so we can all learn how to make things better.


----------



## Rebel420

I should be commending you for reading through my long winded post!

A little clarification, though, I wasn't asking about the reason behind C19, or why the mod was done, but i was my intention (often better than my execution at times!) was for someone just wandering in, and questioning if they would see benefit from it, and to highlight which gain settings they use which would see the least or most benefit from it.

As for,the reverb mod, that is something I do hope to,try someday, and of course, I will document the process, as I believe that this is one of the biggest complaints I've seen in a number of the posts-- weak reverb.

For myself, the reverb will only get used when I'm noodling around the house, plugged in with no effects. 
Soon as I start putting effects in the loop, reverb goes off, since:
a) my effects processor has better reverb/more choices and 
b) the effects loop is AFTER the reverb in the signal chain, and to me, reverb should ALWAYS be last (after modulation and delay)

Not doubting your experience with the power tube change giving you more 'verb...just wish I could explain how that happened!


----------



## ricky711

For those who replaced C19 with 100pf, how many volts are you using?


----------



## Rebel420

ricky711 said:


> For those who replaced C19 with 100pf, how many volts are you using?



I think the stock cap is rated at 100v, but others have used 50v. That part of the circuit is actually isolated from seeing DC by a couple of caps, so theoretically, it wouldn't NEED to be that high. However. I would still go with a 100v cap simply because if for some reason one of the other caps fail, it would give some margin for keeping this cap safe. Likewise, a 100v cap would require eas bending of the leads, and it would look like the stock cap in case it ever had to go back for warranty repair.

Back in my day, I would use 500v, 1000v or even 1500v ceramic caps for this position in the amp, but it was what I would stock in case I was using them in other places in an amp...and they were dirt cheap, so why not use the highest rated parts you could fit . Then again, I was normally soldering those big disc caps (still the diameter of a dime or smaller) right on the lugs of a full size pot, not in a tiny PCB spot


----------



## ken361

[SC] https://youtu.be/ZpvwNXsrkME[/SC]Slightly boosted tones, I should backed the greens volume down some and turn the boost up more. I was trying to see how the red 1 responds I like!

MIM strat neck pup boost on, kinda vintage tone
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iO2uOuGbefw&feature=youtu.be


----------



## Rebel420

ken361 said:


> [SC] https://youtu.be/ZpvwNXsrkME[/SC]Slightly boosted tones, I should backed the greens volume down some and turn the boost up more. I was trying to see how the red 1 responds I like!
> 
> MIM strat neck pup boost on, kinda vintage tone
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iO2uOuGbefw&feature=youtu.be



Both are great tones! I do tend to favor the first clip a bit more than the second one, though. What was your setup and amp settings?


----------



## ken361

Rebel420 said:


> Both are great tones! I do tend to favor the first clip a bit more than the second one, though. What was your setup and amp settings?



Thanks, maybe if I had a better strat or better playing just made it up.Amp setting gain on the red 1 gain around 7 with a slight boost amps EQ all on 5 except bass at 3. T Rex Crunchy frog running up front with the boost side on

Crunch channel the same settings


----------



## ricky711

Thanks! the stock looks metal film, do you think any sonic difference with a ceramic?
BTW, I had clipped C19 but just put it back and I actually prefer it. I got back gain and bite on both channels. This is with a Celestial V-type, which made a world of difference! Green crunch channel now reminds me of a plexi. I can see clipping it with the 70/80. This amp sounds great cranked.


----------



## wolfpack

Micky said:


> C19 is there for a reason, and depending on the speaker you have installed depends on the value I would put there. For me, I have 'extensively' modded mine, so I should not serve as a 'model' or source for your search of the ultimate tone. OT, choke, 6550's and an Eminence Man-O-War speaker have turned my 40c into a fire-breathing beast, far more powerful than the original and more suited to the classic rock I love



6550s huh
Interested how those compare to KT77s


----------



## Rebel420

Believe it or not, they are ceramic... Blew my mind the first time I used that type of ceramic cap. I'm used to the old ones that looked like a chunk of terra cotta.

I've always been partial to the warmer sound of ceramic caps, as silver mica caps always tended to sound a bit sterile/harsh to me...but as a bright cap, especially in a high gain amp, I doubt you would hear much difference


----------



## HAmmer

Delete


----------



## Micky

wolfpack said:


> 6550s huh
> Interested how those compare to KT77s



Never tried KT77's. No interest.


----------



## wolfpack

Micky said:


> Never tried KT77's. No interest.



Can you give a description what the 6550s feel/sound like compared to EL34s ? 
Why did you change to these ?
Any mods required ?


----------



## Micky

I changed to 6550's because I wanted to.
A pair of these bigass bottles fell into my lap.
So I figured they wold look real nice in my DSL.

And yes, a few mods were required.
They are detailed earlier in this thread.

I don't have a lot of time on these yet, as I usually end up playing my DSL5c, but initial impressions are cleans are more full, crunch is awesome, and Ultra channels have more gain than any normal person would ever need.

I figure the PT is allowing 60-75 watts out now.


----------



## Rahlstin

Couple of things in my experience with the amp so far. KT77's really really work well in this amp. I did try a Classic T 40-18058 choke in mine. Some say you cant tell the difference but the bottom end really did change and I didn't like it. Tried the same choke in my DSL100H and same thing. I think its sounds tighter and has a better ass with the resistor. But this is just me. In my JCM2000 DSL100 head the same rating of choke but an MM (don't thing mfg makes a diff) really made the amp way better especialy in the feel and the the bottom end in that amp did tighten up a bit.


----------



## ken361

You guys crunch channel sorta bassy some,like on power chords and that? I get a nice breakup on own chords. Boosting is really nice. Just wonder by having 2 bias knobs one may be off some? I probably wont have it checked till I put newer power tubes in.


----------



## newplayeroldguy

I've having an issue with my amp. I'm getting a rattle in some frequencies- it doesn't seem to be fret buzz. It's more noticeable once the amp is fully warmed up than when I first take it off standby. I've pulled off the rear panel, checked to see that all the screws holding the speaker (I swapped out the 70/80 weeks ago) are snug, and they are. Could it be a loose tube? I haven't touched them. Where else should I look?


----------



## ken361

possible tubes try diff preamps, starting at the v1


----------



## newplayeroldguy

Ken, do you mean the tubes themselves, or how they are seated? Should I pull them and put them back in, or change them out? It's cooling off right now, so either way I won't do anything until tomorrow.


----------



## ken361

newplayeroldguy said:


> Ken, do you mean the tubes themselves, or how they are seated? Should I pull them and put them back in, or change them out? It's cooling off right now, so either way I won't do anything until tomorrow.



yes the tubes if you have contact cleaner clean the pins and work it in a few times it can't hurt it helped me in the past


----------



## newplayeroldguy

Thanks Ken, knew I could count on you. I appreciate it.


----------



## ken361

good luck


----------



## obiwan7373

I just purchased a DSL 100 H. This is not my first tube amp, but my first Marshall tube. I run it into a 2x12 with Weber Legacy 65 speakers. Had them made to sound like old greenbacks but higher wattage. This was before the Creambacks came out, figures. Oh well.

Anyway, wow. I am a new member and have spent the past week reading all 149 pages of information. I have not done anything yet. Want to make sure it does not catch on fire first, I did bias it first at least. First is tubes, chokes and OT. Seems from all the posts this is the best way to improve my sound. Thinking Ruby AC7 HG+ in V2, I have good luck with short plate JJ's for the V3/CF spot in other amps, a Sovtek LPS in the V4/PI and Mullard RI in the power. Have not decided on V1, maybe a AC7 HG+ or a Tung Sol or a Mullard RI shortplate. 

Thank you to all for the information. It has been a lot to process over the past week, lol.


----------



## Ragnarök

Found one of these combos for $375 a hour drive from where I live. If only the sales man wasn't flakey.


----------



## skidbrake

I play different styles of music using dirty and clean tones. This is the best-sounding all-purpose combo tube amp I've found in 30+ years of playing. For the benefit of those who just purchased a DSL40C, here are the mods I made to mine that really dialed it in:

1. Replaced speaker with Eminence Legend GB128 (8Ω)
2. Upgraded amp-to-speaker wire and plug
3. Replaced cap C19 with 68pF Silver Mica (see pic ... this made the Red channel usable)
4. Replaced output tubes with new Winged =C= EL34s, biased to 70%
5. Changed pre-amp tubes: V1 and V4 = JJ 803S, V2 and V3 = Tung-Sol 12AX7

Before these mods it was mostly a crunchy rock amp with limited versatility. Now, it's glassy, chimey, resonant and touch-sensitive, and sounds great as a clean jazz amp, a gritty blues amp or a crunchy rock amp. I can play out with it in any musical setting, has enough volume for any venue, and it's small enough for a one-trip carry from car to gig. What more could a guitarist ask for?

None of the mods/upgrades are expensive or difficult. My thanks to the forum members commenting on this thread, as you have generously helped me find the right components to turn this decent factory amp into an outstanding boutique combo.


----------



## ken361

I prefer the Tungsol in the v1 and the jj 803 v2


----------



## SlyStrat

I just ordered a Cream one.


----------



## Micky

skidbrake said:


> I play different styles of music using dirty and clean tones. This is the best-sounding all-purpose combo tube amp I've found in 30+ years of playing. For the benefit of those who just purchased a DSL40C, here are the mods I made to mine that really dialed it in:
> 
> 1. Replaced speaker with Eminence Legend GB128 (8Ω)
> 2. Upgraded amp-to-speaker wire and plug
> 3. Replaced cap C19 with 68pF Silver Mica (see pic ... this made the Red channel usable)
> 4. Replaced output tubes with new Winged =C= EL34s, biased to 70%
> 5. Changed pre-amp tubes: V1 and V4 = JJ 803S, V2 and V3 = Tung-Sol 12AX7
> 
> Before these mods it was mostly a crunchy rock amp with limited versatility. Now, it's glassy, chimey, resonant and touch-sensitive, and sounds great as a clean jazz amp, a gritty blues amp or a crunchy rock amp. I can play out with it in any musical setting, has enough volume for any venue, and it's small enough for a one-trip carry from car to gig. What more could a guitarist ask for?
> 
> None of the mods/upgrades are expensive or difficult. My thanks to the forum members commenting on this thread, as you have generously helped me find the right components to turn this decent factory amp into an outstanding boutique combo.


Nice to have you here, as well as all the other newly joined!

Please, ALL of you, continue to post new and exciting stuff you are doing, as well as lots of photos!


----------



## sohosteve

YES!!
Please Micky, 
Could you let me have dimensions as I wish to get this mod performed on mine 
Thanks!
Steve




Micky said:


> Feel free to post your mods & other DSL40c related content here.
> This thread is for others to reference when looking for vital info.
> 
> 
> Here is a photo of the installed handles:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You need to measure VERY carefully, as one might have a tendency to want to mount the handles high, near the top. The particular metal handles I uses have a bit of depth to them, I mounted them so the PT and OT clear them by about 1/4 inch. I can provide dimensions if anyone needs them.
> 
> Gut shots and other info to follow...


----------



## Micky

sohosteve said:


> YES!!
> Please Micky,
> Could you let me have dimensions as I wish to get this mod performed on mine
> Thanks!
> Steve



I'm working on it!
Because this is a one-of-a-kind, I either have to find my notes, or pull the handle and re-measure.
The chances of either are getting slimmer by the day...

But not to fear, I will come up with them somehow.


----------



## sohosteve

Thanks Micky
That's hugely appreciated 



Micky said:


> I'm working on it!
> Because this is a one-of-a-kind, I either have to find my notes, or pull the handle and re-measure.
> The chances of either are getting slimmer by the day...
> 
> But not to fear, I will come up with them somehow.


----------



## HAmmer

My Tube combo
power tubes TAD EL34B STR
TAD 7025WA in V1, 
Mullard RI 12AX7 in V2, 
TAD 7025WA in V3 and a 
TAD 7025S in V4.

im going to Replace cap C19 with 68pF Silver Mica and give it a try


----------



## mojorising

Hello again everyone, well I am slowly receiving my OT, choke, tubes and upgraded caps. I should have them in by the weekend and then spend the rest of the weekend installing them. However, before I do I have a quick question.

When I am on the clean channel and have the gain fairly low the amp doesn't seem to have any power and I understand that this is related to the gain knob. However for a nice clean tone you can't have a lot gain. On top of all of this, if you then switch to the crunch channel the volume level is overwhelming. 

Is there anything I can do to get the volume up on the clean channel without sacrificing cleanness of the channel? The difference in volume is staggering.


----------



## mojorising

Holy smokes, I though I had introduced myself earlier in the thread. It only took me almost three weeks to go through the entire post. What b.s. but I did find it humorous with all of the comments about those who didn't, I guess I earn my badge…whew :yes way:

Anyway, I am a long time Marshall guy but this is my first DSL and first combo in probably 25 years. I play Les Pauls and play mostly classic rock. I have the Creamback already installed (sweetwater special). I ordered a set of tubes from Brent Jesse BRENT JESSEE RECORDING HOMEPAGE for my power tubes I ordered the Mullard Reissue EL34M made in the Slovak Republic for Groove Tubes and for the preamp stage I ordered the Vintage Mullard made Blackburn UK factory 12AX7, the Raytheon made black plate 12AX7, the JAN GE made 12AX7WA and the 12AX7 Sylvania grey plate. 

I ordered my choke and OT from Mercury Magnetics and I have yet to bias the amp. Waiting to do this until all parts come in, this way I can do everything at once. 

Sorry for not introducing myself earlier but I thought I did, thats what reading 150 pages of post will do to you.


----------



## ken361

mojorising said:


> Holy smokes, I though I had introduced myself earlier in the thread. It only took me almost three weeks to go through the entire post. What b.s. but I did find it humorous with all of the comments about those who didn't, I guess I earn my badge…whew :yes way:
> 
> Anyway, I am a long time Marshall guy but this is my first DSL and first combo in probably 25 years. I play Les Pauls and play mostly classic rock. I have the Creamback already installed (sweetwater special). I ordered a set of tubes from Brent Jesse BRENT JESSEE RECORDING HOMEPAGE for my power tubes I ordered the Mullard Reissue EL34M made in the Slovak Republic for Groove Tubes and for the preamp stage I ordered the Vintage Mullard made Blackburn UK factory 12AX7, the Raytheon made black plate 12AX7, the JAN GE made 12AX7WA and the 12AX7 Sylvania grey plate.
> 
> I ordered my choke and OT from Mercury Magnetics and I have yet to bias the amp. Waiting to do this until all parts come in, this way I can do everything at once.
> 
> Sorry for not introducing myself earlier but I thought I did, thats what reading 150 pages of post will do to you.


Nice tube selection! I was using the WA for awhile when I had the stock speaker and im back with a Tungsol in the V1 the Slyvania works great in the PI for me. Love to hear it when your done


----------



## ken361

mojorising said:


> Hello again everyone, well I am slowly receiving my OT, choke, tubes and upgraded caps. I should have them in by the weekend and then spend the rest of the weekend installing them. However, before I do I have a quick question.
> 
> When I am on the clean channel and have the gain fairly low the amp doesn't seem to have any power and I understand that this is related to the gain knob. However for a nice clean tone you can't have a lot gain. On top of all of this, if you then switch to the crunch channel the volume level is overwhelming.
> 
> Is there anything I can do to get the volume up on the clean channel without sacrificing cleanness of the channel? The difference in volume is staggering.


I use a T Rex crunchy Frog OD with a boost button, so I would get a good clean boost pedal that's true bypass. A slight boost will def make your cleans louder! Boosting the crunch more is really nice to add gain. Red channel it brings the notes out more clearer sounding.


----------



## mojorising

Thanks Ken for the info, I really try to stay away from pedals. Yea… I'm that kind of guy, but I understand what your saying. I will keep you posted on the developments over the next two weeks. I am going to do am A/B comparison so that should be interesting.


----------



## Micky

mojorising said:


> Hello again everyone, well I am slowly receiving my OT, choke, tubes and upgraded caps. I should have them in by the weekend and then spend the rest of the weekend installing them. However, before I do I have a quick question.
> 
> When I am on the clean channel and have the gain fairly low the amp doesn't seem to have any power and I understand that this is related to the gain knob. However for a nice clean tone you can't have a lot gain. On top of all of this, if you then switch to the crunch channel the volume level is overwhelming.
> 
> Is there anything I can do to get the volume up on the clean channel without sacrificing cleanness of the channel? The difference in volume is staggering.



Take lots of photos of the mod process!
This is a perfect place to post them...


----------



## SlyStrat

I received the Cream one today. Its bigger than I thought.
Almost as big as my Marshall 1936 cab (Celestion Heritage G12-65's).
It has way too much treble. I have the Treble and Presence on 0.
So far my favorite channel is Lead 1 with Gain about 3 for classic rock.
Way different tone than my NMV 50's.
It might be a keeper.


----------



## ken361

I run mine all at 5 bass lower some, change the preamp tubes and break in for 30+ hours


----------



## MarshallDog

SlyStrat said:


> I received the Cream one today. Its bigger than I thought.
> Almost as big as my Marshall 1936 cab (Celestion Heritage G12-65's).
> It has way too much treble. I have the Treble and Presence on 0.
> So far my favorite channel is Lead 1 with Gain about 3 for classic rock.
> Way different tone than my NMV 50's.
> It might be a keeper.



Too much treble...LOL, that's what a lot of people say. New tubes and do away with C4 and C19 and then you will be able to use your treble and presence knobs. That what I did and every time I put a smaller cap back in either spot I'm like, no way, out it comes. That's my tastes though.


----------



## ken361

adjust your guitar pups, I always do a little with a new amp.


----------



## Micky

sohosteve said:


> YES!!
> Please Micky,
> Could you let me have dimensions as I wish to get this mod performed on mine
> Thanks!
> Steve



Well, I went thru all my construction/modifications notes, and couldn't find anything.
So - Then I scoured my PM's and came across this:

"You need to be mindful about the transformers, the handles could touch if you are not careful. Based on the handles I have from Parts-Express, you need a hole 4.5" X 7.0".
5.5 inches from top, 2.75 inches from front and back. 7 inches from bottom."

Hope this helps anyone wishing to cut holes in the sides of their DSL40c...


----------



## HAmmer

Anybody using KT88 power tubes?


----------



## mojorising

Quick question about ohms and speakers. I am using Creamback (16 ohms) plugged into the DSL (of course right…) any way I have another cab that houses an 8 ohm speaker, can I keep the Creamback plugged in and connect the 8 ohm speaker by plugging it into one of the 8 ohm jacks? And does it matter which one?

So basically I would be running one 16 and one 8 ohm speaker at the same time…can that be done correctly and safely?


----------



## Micky

No. You can use a single 16-ohm speaker plugged into the 16-ohm jack.
You can use an 8-ohm speaker plugged into one of the 8-ohm jacks.
Or you can use 2 16-ohm speakers plugged into both of the 8-ohm jacks.

When you plug something into the 16-ohm jack, it disables the others.


----------



## SlyStrat

I'd like a little more distortion on the Crunch channel.
Suggestions?


----------



## mojorising

Thanks Micky


----------



## HAmmer

SlyStrat said:


> I'd like a little more distortion on the Crunch channel.
> Suggestions?


 theres a bazillion pedals out there for that you just gotta reserch and pick whats good for you


----------



## MarshallDog

HAmmer said:


> theres a bazillion pedals out there for that you just gotta reserch and pick whats good for you



My choice are the Fulltone OCD and the vintage Tube Screamer...


----------



## ken361

SlyStrat said:


> I'd like a little more distortion on the Crunch channel.
> Suggestions?



Boosting helps with a good pedal, oops see people already replied


----------



## SlyStrat

Anyone try a Celestion Heritage G12-65?


----------



## Jethro Rocker

HAmmer said:


> theres a bazillion pedals out there for that you just gotta reserch and pick whats good for you



Boosting as in use an overdrive, and set the Volume or Level control on it high or full and set Gain to zero. That way you are pushingvthe heck out of the input thus increasing distortion dramatically but not using much of the pedal's distortion, just pushing tubes!!


----------



## vhToneChaser

Hi guys,
I am a proud DSL40C owner, and the amp runs fine...
-apart from one problem:
The amp plays just fine for between 5-45 minutes, but then all sound just completely cuts out.
The only way to fix it is turn it off and on again.
Even after i restart the amp, this continues to happen.

Has anybody experienced or even better, solved this problem?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Also, I am going to change the speaker.
-I am thinking a Vintage 30, unless anyone has any better suggestions.
Speaker suggestions will also be greatly appreciated.
If it helps, I am looking for an early Brown Sound (my username probably gives that away).

My guitars are:
Kramer Pacer classic (Candy Red)
Gibson Les Paul Signature (2014)

Thanks in advance,
Rock on DSL users.


----------



## Rahlstin

Tech time


----------



## HAmmer

Jethro Rocker said:


> Boosting as in use an overdrive, and set the Volume or Level control on it high or full and set Gain to zero. That way you are pushingvthe heck out of the input thus increasing distortion dramatically but not using much of the pedal's distortion, just pushing tubes!!



great tip, Thx


----------



## rlowe

Hello, I have owned the dsl40c for almost 7 months. At roughly 5 months 2 stock preamp tubes went bad. Marshall replaced them barely out of warranty with 2 white marshall labeled Shuguang's these tubes are harsh!. Soon one of the shuguang's went bad. I would still 
play periodically (not the best of tone), then I started getting loud popping, scratchy sounds when I turned my amp on, and until it warmed up. I ordered a new set of four preamp tubes from Doug's tubes installed them using electrical contact cleaner on pins, but the popping and scratching sound is still there! Amazingly these new preamp tubes sound fantastic (4 pk. tone kit). The whole amp sounds great! Just the popping and scratching sounds at start up. Any suggestion's? Thank you!rlowe


----------



## ken361

Wonder if its the power tubes hmm


----------



## MarshallDog

I have had the same thing happen in various amps and in my situations it always turned out to be bad power tubes...


----------



## ken361

Tortex med's yellow picks sound awful on the red so bright and that. I like Ultex .96 or my V pick Tradition UL makes a world of difference


----------



## Oldpunk

ken361 said:


> Tortex med's yellow picks sound awful on the red so bright and that. I like Ultex .96 or my V pick Tradition UL makes a world of difference



Picks make more of a difference than people think. They account for a lot of the tone thats being projected, its where the rubber meets the road. The thicker the better IMO. I only use wegen BG 1.4mm and blue chip TP1R 50's...They're pricey but so worth it. Meaty tone and gone is any pick noise and they literally glide across the strings, Smooth as butter. Cheap picks = cheap tone.


----------



## ken361

cheap picks crap tone the V pick really smooths the highs nicely compared to the tortex, the ultex is really similar. Love to try the blue chip


----------



## rlowe

I would estimate the power tubes are the problem. Tapped both with wooden rod and they both responded scratchy as hell. Will put in new power tubes then bias. Thank you! rlowe


----------



## rlowe

ken361 said:


> Wonder if its the power tubes hmm


 I reckon it is the power tubes Mr. Ken


----------



## mojorising

CPR, Well I did it right I guess…that is really screwed it up! Seeking advice, I was in there poking around wanting to check my freaking plate voltage and buzzzzzzz…..poof and that was that. Anyway I blew the HT fuse and keeps blowing everything I take it off stand by. I changed the tubes but no joy there…anybody got anything before I take it to the tech?


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Probably best not to "poke around" checking high plate voltages unless you are experienced in high voltage electronics. Simply changing the tubes without a bias would have at least showed you if the problem was power tubes. It blows the HT evrytime? Or other fuses?


----------



## mojorising

BTW, when I turn on the power everything seems fine, but as soon as I take t off stand by poof, there goes the fuse. Changed all tubes still poof after flipping the stby switch.


----------



## mojorising

just the FT fuse. yeah well I will never worry about the damn plate voltage again…thats for sure.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Dunno, sounds like something has shorted out in the socket perhaps. A dead tube can keep killing HT fuse but since they are new tubes... the PV is fine to check, if you are very familiar with working with these circuits. I have never done it manually, my bias probe does it for me.


----------



## SlyStrat




----------



## ken361

Strat,fuzz into the cleans mmm ! Like to hear it against those other amps


----------



## lordquilton

mojorising said:


> CPR, Well I did it right I guess…that is really screwed it up! Seeking advice, I was in there poking around wanting to check my freaking plate voltage and buzzzzzzz…..poof and that was that. Anyway I blew the HT fuse and keeps blowing everything I take it off stand by. I changed the tubes but no joy there…anybody got anything before I take it to the tech?



This forum boasts some extremely knowledgeable members, if it were me I would start a thread over at The Workbench.


----------



## tman

I found a DSL 40 with a creamback nice sounding speaker tames the brightness of the 70-80


----------



## tman

Marshall tech told me these should be from 27-35 both sides Mv/Ma


----------



## tman

Also I like tungsol in v1 what is a good preamp tube fo v2 position in these and the rest of preamp tubes just curious?? thanks


----------



## ken361

I use a Tung v1 JJ803 v2 v3 gold lion v4 Sylvania


----------



## ken361

Heres this guys setting to try out, I have to try it loud yet but works good at bedroom
https://youtu.be/3jFiTKoR-Rw

Metalbringer
For this video, I set my amp as follows:
resonance - 4.5
presence - 6
bass - 5.5
mid - 9
treble - 7
gain - 4
all on the red 1 channel of the DSL (ultra gain)


----------



## Oldpunk

tman said:


> Also I like tungsol in v1 what is a good preamp tube fo v2 position in these and the rest of preamp tubes just curious?? thanks



I run a Tungsol in V1 and a ruby AC7HG+ in V2, jjs in the rest (so far). Love it.


----------



## ken361

Tried a Epiphone Dot today on the red 1 at GC,sounded decent


----------



## HAmmer

ken361 said:


> Heres this guys setting to try out, I have to try it loud yet but works good at bedroom
> https://youtu.be/3jFiTKoR-Rw
> 
> Metalbringer
> For this video, I set my amp as follows:
> resonance - 4.5
> presence - 6
> bass - 5.5
> mid - 9
> treble - 7
> gain - 4
> all on the red 1 channel of the DSL (ultra gain)



Looks like he has active pickups, ive been looking into those i gotta get rid of these 490series in my LP they sound terrible


----------



## ken361

HAmmer said:


> Looks like he has active pickups, ive been looking into those i gotta get rid of these 490series in my LP they sound terrible



498T/490's? I liked them in my old Studio, you adjust the pole pieces on the bridge? I find the Gibson's you need to adjust them up a couple turns towards the middle. It will sound smoother! want it to the radius of the bridge.


----------



## Oldpunk

I really like the 498T/490R in my GT Studio too, especially through the 40c. Add to it the tapping and I can get tons of sweet tones. Just goes to show how subjective tone is though, some people obviously dont like them, as puzzling as that seems to me.


----------



## ken361

Oldpunk said:


> I really like the 498T/490R in my GT Studio too, especially through the 40c. Add to it the tapping and I can get tons of sweet tones. Just goes to show how subjective tone is though, some people obviously dont like them, as puzzling as that seems to me.



I play loud for final adjustmentI like my bridge at 1/8 bass side and 1/16 treble


----------



## tman

I have an Epi DOT studio and it sounds great!! I have Seymour Duncan Alnico pro II "slash" pickups in bridge and neck with nickel covers and it sonds nice and warm.


----------



## SlyStrat

I'm actually liking the stock speaker after about 5 hours of heavy playing. Might keep it.


----------



## Natedog_37

Well finally tried my Digitech GNX4 with the amp, Amp/cab sims turned off. "Just effects on"


I ran it right though the loope and it was ok. Then ran it into the front of the amp and I am in love.

Will say I really love it just have to setup the volume pedal on the GNX, and get my wah wah into the effect chain. 

So far everyone that has heard this setup has loved it. Once we record a song with it I will post a sample.


----------



## Micky

Natedog_37 said:


> Well finally tried my Digitech GNX4 with the amp, Amp/cab sims turned off. "Just effects on"
> 
> 
> I ran it right though the loope and it was ok. Then ran it into the front of the amp and I am in love.
> 
> Will say I really love it just have to setup the volume pedal on the GNX, and get my wah wah into the effect chain.
> 
> So far everyone that has heard this setup has loved it. Once we record a song with it I will post a sample.



A lot of people don't realize just how versatile this amp really is...


----------



## Oldpunk

So versatile is right! The more time I spend with mine the more it blows me away.


----------



## SlyStrat

Mine came from factory biased at 25 and 32 mA per tube.
My friend adjusted them to 38 per tube.


----------



## ken361

SlyStrat said:


> Mine came from factory biased at 25 and 32 mA per tube.
> My friend adjusted them to 38 per tube.



How much was the sound effected after?


----------



## tman

This amp is freakin amazing!! Lots of versatility and the tone is great!! I have the Creamback speaker in mine and it sounds awesome. I also did some preamp tube swapping.For now I have it Mullard cv4004 RI V-1/V-2EH12ax7/V-3/4 JJ's but will be switching to V-1(TAD 7025 WA)in place of the 12ax7/V-2 the Mullard v-3 JJ and V-4(PI) Sovtek 12ax7LPS after conculting with MARTYSTRAT54 he is a tube wizz and I just ordered those a few days ago. I am getting EL34 MULLARDS for standby for the power tubes.


----------



## Bownse

When one of my TAD power tubes went tango uniform, I swapped in the OEM Marshalls long enough to practice a few days and make arrangements to have a pro check out everything (since i bought it used).

Amp checked fine. He cleaned the tube sockets and pots as routine.

Sure enough one of the TAD power tubes was stone cold dead. The other was not serviceable.

The OEM Marshall power tubes tested weak (no surprise).

The new TADs tested very good.

He also tested all the pre-amp tubes and found one of the new-ish (2 months old) TADs was questionable so swapped in a new one (same TAD) that he had in stock.

He's only at his shop near me on Wednesdays, so I can drive the 60 miles rt or wait until next Wed to pick it up. I'll report back how it sounds when I get it next Wed.

He's an amp guy instead of a luthier that does amps as a distraction. He mods and services amps and boards.


----------



## tman

Ok sweet yeah for sure let me know how they sound. Thanks


----------



## tman

Yeah how did making it hotter make the amp sound???


----------



## SlyStrat

Hotter bias made it gainier. 
I play mostly on Crunch.
Before I had the gain on 10. Now at 8 its about the same.

BUT: now some of my bent E string high notes have a bad ghost note. Some nasty tone riding with the note.


----------



## ken361

I like the strat on red 1 gain at 5 for hendrix type stuff


----------



## Ranger911

If anyone is looking to get a Silver Jubilee sound from their DSL40C I just found that you can get it really close. 

Background
I have a DSL40C with no mods other than changing the stock speaker with a V30. Over the last few days I have had a Silver Jubilee reissue head at my disposal. I decided I would try and match its sound on the DSL40C so I connected the Jubilee to the DSL40C internal speaker to keep the comparison simple.

Settings
The Jubilee was set to get its thickest distortion sound while keeping the Presence, Treble, Mid and Bass all on 5. The Lead Master and Input Gain were both on 10. The Rhythm Clip was in and the Output Master Volume was on 3.

After going back and forth between the two amps for several hours over two days here is where the DSL40C sounds remarkably like the Jubilee. Set the Presence, Resonance, Classic and Ultra Reverb to 0. Use the Lead 1 Ultra Gain channel with the gain on 5. Volume was set to 3. The Treble and Mid should be set to 2. Set the Bass to 5 and now for the big secret... engage the Tone Shift (In). That was my big ah ha moment. The Jubilee is fairly nasal sounding.

These settings were counterintuitive to me but it sounds pretty cool. See what you think.

I will add that the Jubilee was set to 100 watt mode and the DSL was set to 40 watt mode. The Jubilee has just a hint of more growl.


----------



## SlyStrat

I thought mine had a Jube flavor in the Lead 1 Ultra Gain (stock speaker)
The Jube and V30's were made for each other and I bet the speaker helps.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Cool tip! I'm gonna try that with my 2558 Jube and the 40C. Tone shift seems to suck a fat one but hey, gotta try it and listen!!


----------



## AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing

Tried those settings . . .sounds pretty cool in my tiny hard floored living room, with a WGS Vet 30. I have no idea what a Silver Jubilee sounds like in person so can't comment on accuracy. I added a little presence (1) 'cause it seemed just a little too dull. 

My experience is what sounds like ear piercing treble in tiny hard floored living room sounds a lot duller at a venue, so who knows if this works live. Also haven't tried it playing with someone else (i.e. in a mix)


----------



## Ranger911

It was an interesting experiment. Having owned a JMP 50 watt, I am quite familiar with that sound through a cabinet so I thought it would be interesting to run the Jubilee through the DSL40C speaker and cab and see what I was dealing with. The most striking observation was how much more focused the Jubilee sounded, even with everything set to noon. I assumed that the open back and small cab size would make this Jubilee sound airy and a bit thinner but in reality the DSL40C cabinet played a minuscule role in that regard. What I found was that the DSL40C’s voice is more trebly, airy and reflective than the Jubilee, which I would describe as considerably more focused with far less airiness to it and even a nasaly tone. To counteract this I found I had to take out all of the presence, cut the treble way down and even cut the mids way down. The mids on the DSL40C are bright by comparison. It is really not the open back cabinet that gives the DSL40C its distinct sound. I'm not suggesting that plugging the DSL40C into a cab wouldn't help thicken it up because it certainly would but I would recommend cutting the treble, mid and presence (by more than you normally would) and you will have a tone that is right there with these more legendary heads.

Two other things worth mentioning: by activating the tone shift it killed off the last bit of airiness or openness that the DSL40C has in the mids as compared to the Jubilee. I also expected to have to dial in some amount of Resonance. In fact I had always liked adding in the Resonance up to about 6 or 7 but with the direct comparison to the Jubilee -- it has no Resonance frequency at all. Now I think of the Resonance as a bit of a gimmick. It was interesting to me for a while but now I think of it as an effect, which in fairness to Marshall that is all they are saying it is. I just never totally put the Resonance effect in its rightful place in my mind.


----------



## Jscully

Hi
I love this amp! I played it out last night and fantastic all around.
I have a question though, when I switch channels with the foots witch, I get a loud PPP, especially going back to ultra gain.
Would that be a problem with the amp or the foot switch?


----------



## Jscully

A loud "pop" sorry


----------



## Micky

No need for duplicate threads, just have patience...

Do you have a pedal or pedalboard plugged into the front of the amp?
Does it do this with every guitar?
Does it do this plugged directly into the amp with no FX?


----------



## Jscully

Hi
No FX, just plugged directly into the amp. I tried three different guitars, I get the same pop 
Otherwise, a great amp but the pop worries me.
Thanks


----------



## Micky

Generally it happens when there is a lot of signal into the amp.
Try turning down the guitar and see if it still does it.

Other than that, try swapping preamp tubes with a known good one, it could be V1 or V2...


----------



## Jscully

Ok 
Thanks I'll try swapping and see if it helps
Thanks


----------



## MarshallDog

Ranger911 said:


> It was an interesting experiment. Having owned a JMP 50 watt, I am quite familiar with that sound through a cabinet so I thought it would be interesting to run the Jubilee through the DSL40C speaker and cab and see what I was dealing with. The most striking observation was how much more focused the Jubilee sounded, even with everything set to noon. I assumed that the open back and small cab size would make this Jubilee sound airy and a bit thinner but in reality the DSL40C cabinet played a minuscule role in that regard. What I found was that the DSL40C’s voice is more trebly, airy and reflective than the Jubilee, which I would describe as considerably more focused with far less airiness to it and even a nasaly tone. To counteract this I found I had to take out all of the presence, cut the treble way down and even cut the mids way down. The mids on the DSL40C are bright by comparison. It is really not the open back cabinet that gives the DSL40C its distinct sound. I'm not suggesting that plugging the DSL40C into a cab wouldn't help thicken it up because it certainly would but I would recommend cutting the treble, mid and presence (by more than you normally would) and you will have a tone that is right there with these more legendary heads.
> 
> Two other things worth mentioning: by activating the tone shift it killed off the last bit of airiness or openness that the DSL40C has in the mids as compared to the Jubilee. I also expected to have to dial in some amount of Resonance. In fact I had always liked adding in the Resonance up to about 6 or 7 but with the direct comparison to the Jubilee -- it has no Resonance frequency at all. Now I think of the Resonance as a bit of a gimmick. It was interesting to me for a while but now I think of it as an effect, which in fairness to Marshall that is all they are saying it is. I just never totally put the Resonance effect in its rightful place in my mind.



And, this is in part why I for one, have removed C4 and C19 and run a Jan-GE 5751 in V2 and V3 with a JJ ECC803-s in V1 and V4. It helps this amp in all the ways you mention above, if that's what your looking for and I am!


----------



## ken361

I tried the Jub setting above and sounded decent, had to turn the master up a lot more because it wasnt as loud because all the highs were gone.


----------



## Olaf70

Hey folks.
Time for a break.
I love this amp, c19 mod with the Texas Heat.
Great. 
Greetings from Germany...


----------



## Micky

Olaf70 said:


> Hey folks.
> Time for a break.
> I love this amp, c19 mod with the Texas Heat.
> Great.
> Greetings from Germany...



Greetings!

Many new members put a post in the Introduce Yourself section where they get a chance to tell us all a little about themselves.


----------



## AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing

So, can I ask where you guys are that you can turn Master up to 3 on the drive channel? It's like painful loud in my apartment. I would probably have to be outside to play it that loud. I get it in a band situation or at a venue or a larger room or something, but where I am. . .ouch.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

In my basement. In the house. In suburbia.


----------



## Oldpunk

AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing said:


> So, can I ask where you guys are that you can turn Master up to 3 on the drive channel? It's like painful loud in my apartment. I would probably have to be outside to play it that loud. I get it in a band situation or at a venue or a larger room or something, but where I am. . .ouch.



Master up to 3? It just starts coming alive at 5! (even more so in a small room). 

Marshalls are MADE to crank, not baby.


----------



## AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing

Yes yes, that is what they all say. I am not saying they are wrong either. But it physically hurts at 2, max. And thats on those Jubilee settings above. Even lower with more mids. I dunno. maybe i need to get further away from it (this room is not that big), or point it at the floor or something.

what really blows my mind is all the folks in the youtube demos with that amp in tiny rooms. Do THEY have em up that loud? if so do they get to park in the disabled parking spots cause its been six months since they made those vids and theyre deaf now?


----------



## Bownse

Hearing protection, d00d.


----------



## HAmmer

AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing said:


> So, can I ask where you guys are that you can turn Master up to 3 on the drive channel? It's like painful loud in my apartment. I would probably have to be outside to play it that loud. I get it in a band situation or at a venue or a larger room or something, but where I am. . .ouch.



I have the master on 9 with my attenuator connected


----------



## AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing

but if you wear plugs it sounds dulled anyway so why have it up loud in the first place? isnt the whole point to just sit there and bathe in the tone? seems like chasing your tail unless its up loud for recording (in which case the cans youll almost certainly be wearing would function as ear protection...


----------



## AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing

yes i have considered an attenuator. are they still giant monster boxes? i had the marshall branded one years ago for my fender deville, discovered i did not like the sound of the deville cranked, sold the attenuator (Power Brake i believe).


----------



## Jscully

I've used a "Bad Cat Unleash" attenuator with my JCM 2000 when I'm home. The thing is amazing and is recommend it highly.


----------



## ken361

Run mine at real low for bedroom before 1, then 4 or so higher volumes


----------



## Ranger911

I mainly play my DSL40C at 1 but to for comparison to the Jubilee I felt I had to open them both up louder to get a better idea of each ones sound. This was all done in the basement during the day.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

I don't sit on the floor right in front and turn mine up past 2.5 or so. But back up, stand up and turn up a bit once in awhile. Gigs different. I personally wouldn't bother with earplugs for home use but I get to gig. Most proper earplugs, BTW, do not affect high frequencies they simply teduce overall level while letting all frequencies through. Music stores have 'em.
As far as comparing to my 2558, the Jube doesn't come alive until about 5.5 on the MV and my ears will ring fast. One of the reasons I like the 40c it sounds good at lower volumes. I suspect many of the youtube vids in small rooms are at lower volumes.


----------



## MarshallDog

Has anyone yet tried lowering the B+ voltage just to the preamp tubes by increasing the value of R83? If so, did it work, did it give it more of a warmer brown sound? I did this on my 1989 2558 Jubilee and it worked great and I am wondering if it would work on this amp as well.


----------



## Micky

MarshallDog said:


> Has anyone yet tried lowering the B+ voltage just to the preamp tubes by increasing the value of R83? If so, did it work, did it give it more of a warmer brown sound? I did this on my 1989 2558 Jubilee and it worked great and I am wondering if it would work on this amp as well.



As always, we are waiting for you to try it first...


----------



## MarshallDog

Micky said:


> As always, we are waiting for you to try it first...



LOL...I am sitting here contemplating it. It is an easy mod just a PITA to remove the board and then if I don't like it I have to remove the board again and restore the original resistor. 

Another member stated a long time ago that he tried it but it increased the gain to much and he returned it to original but after studying the circuit, I just don't see how that is possible unless he took earlier breakup as added gain...just not sure it is worth the hassle

Do you think it is worth upping R83 to either 10K or may 18K? I would probably start st 10K and see what happens??


----------



## SlyStrat

Clearsonic shields work to cut the "bullets straight to the ears".
I also will prop a decorative pillow up against the grill cloth. The denser the better.


----------



## Micky

MarshallDog said:


> Do you think it is worth upping R83 to either 10K or may 18K? I would probably start st 10K and see what happens??



If you are talented with a soldering pencil, you can get it done from the top of the board, depending on component location...

Yes, it is a lot of work. And I think I agree, it may only mean quicker breakup. Kinda like 20W mode...


----------



## Blueser

*just a thought...*

I've had my DSL 40 now for about two weeks. Man I like this amp. I traded a fender blues deluxe for it and haven't looked back.
The first couple of days I had it I messed with all the settings trying to get a good bedroom volume sound. I liked what I heard but it wasn't the tone I expected.
Then we had our regular band practice complete with bass, two guitars, drummer, keys and three vocalists. The volume level is fairly loud and of course I turned up my dsl40. Man that's when the sound came out. My rhythm and leads just sang out with authority.
I've read a lot about guys having trouble getting a good sound at lower volumes but I think this amp is really meant to be played loud. The twenty watt setting is ok for practicing but it sounds great when cranked.
By the way mine is not modded.


----------



## AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing

Cool. I will look into attenuators again. 

I had it in half power mode for a while, felt it was a little warm/flat. . .full power seems more cutting/articulate/pokey. Plus you get very little reduction in half power mode, volume-wise.

If those youtubers are recording at low volumes too, I must doin' something wrong 'cause my tone doesn't sound like that. Maybe I'm mic'ing the speaker wrong, or, if tone is all in the hands, my hands need to be spanked.


----------



## MarshallDog

Micky said:


> If you are talented with a soldering pencil, you can get it done from the top of the board, depending on component location...
> 
> Yes, it is a lot of work. And I think I agree, it may only mean quicker breakup. Kinda like 20W mode...



If I do it, the plan would be to put stud wires on the board and then putting the resistor on them so I could easily can it to other values if I wanted to, plus I want to save the original resistor just in case...


----------



## Micky

MarshallDog said:


> If I do it, the plan would be to put stud wires on the board and then putting the resistor on them so I could easily can it to other values if I wanted to, plus I want to save the original resistor just in case...



I can't really see anything happening except increasing the gain... But I may be wrong. Sounds like you have a plan, just be careful and don't burn anything up...

All this in the quest for the brown sound...


----------



## MarshallDog

Micky said:


> I can't really see anything happening except increasing the gain... But I may be wrong. Sounds like you have a plan, just be careful and don't burn anything up...
> 
> All this in the quest for the brown sound...



Yes, just a tad bit looser in the direction of a JMP for example. I love the tone now but it is very sharp or lest say has a bite to it.


----------



## Micky

I am most curious to see how it might affect the Ultra channel, I think if it takes the harshness away that would be a good thing, but I have a feeling all it will do is make it break up much earlier and generate way too much gain.

PROVE ME WRONG!

I never realized how well the half power switch worked at that, until I got a chance to crank it outside. Still didn't have the master maxed out, but that sucker is LOUD! Half-power is great in a confined space, the Classic channel is to die for in circumstances like that.


----------



## IRG

Hey there,

First post here I believe. I don't have it (yet), but have ordered a new DSL40CST from Sweetwater, the one with the upgraded Celestion Creamback speaker. Quite excited to get it.

This is one long thread, and will take me a while to get through it, if I can, lol. I see starting on page 1, or in 2013, different mods were recommended right off the bat. Are these still necessary for current models in 2015?

I have a great amp modification company right near me, Voodoo amps. I sent them a note today about doing some mods. Anyone do this? I'm not likely to do any myself, just not my thing. One thing they mention on their website is that the gain channel is better at lower volumes. This is important to me, as I'll use this at home more so (much more so) than I will in a live setting. Maybe this will change.

So I write pedal demo's for the Tone Report, part of Proguitarshop.com if anyone is familiar with them. I wanted an amp that sounds great clean, has good drive on its own, and can also get very heavy too. Plus a usable effects loop on which to test reverb/delay/modulation pedals. Seems like this amp will check all the boxes on this.

I'm going to suggest to my editors too, if I go the Voodoo amp route, that I'm able to write an article on this amp, and what certain modifications can do to make it even better. All while being on a "budget". Which is important to me, and a lot of people as well.

Guitars: This summer I changed gears, sold a couple of lower end Epi Les Pauls, and traded a beloved but not played enough, Fender CS Telecaster, for a USA artist grade PRS Custom 24 with some mods from the PS shop. I also have a PRS S2 Standard 22 (all mahogany), a PRS SE Clint Lowery (tuned to drop C), a Fender Classic Player '50s Stratocaster, an Epiphone Les Paul 1960 v3 w/Gibson Burstbucker 1 and 2, and an Epiphone Sheraton with Dimarzio 36 PAFs. And a Taylor DN3 for acoustic. Current amp is a Fender Humboldt Hot Rod v2, and a Mustang III - the two in stereo.

When I get the Marshall I might go back to mono and not stereo, not sure yet. So that's it about me, looking forward to being part of this forum a little bit more. I have much less amp experience than I do pedal or guitar knowledge, but am looking forward to learning more. Cheers!


----------



## ken361

If you run it at bedroom levels just above the zero it sounds really good and loud enough to record. As with every amp I owned theres always sweet bedroom spot, then master at 3 and up is good for loud playing I like 4 to 5 on the red 1 gain 5 to 7. Green crunch master low for bedroom works great and loud playing I like it at 7 gain at 7 also. Cleans max the volume you get a slight nice warm breakup! Only mod I did is change the stock 70/80 speaker and dropped my favorite preamp tubes in. I get a thicker sound on the red channel when the amps set a few feet from a wall.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Yes you do not necessarily have to mod it, once the Creamback is broken in and possibly some different pre tubes, depending on taste, it's a great amp. The difference in EQ between channels is less noticeable both when turned up and if C19 is clipped. I did that and am happy as I switch channels often. Personal taste though!

On a budget, you can get very useable, excellent Marshall tones for home and gigging and do not have to mod the heck out of it. There are some members here who like the 40C tonally better than their JVM. Welcome to the forum, tons of knowledhe here!!
cheers.


----------



## IRG

So the preamp tubes have a bigger impact upon replacement than the EL34? Checking out some Mullard replacements, nothing fancy or high end, but the basic ones.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Usually to the tone, yeah. Running it up where you have power tube distortion will show more of the power tube characteristics. Mullard would be an OK thing to try, the 12AX7 are also relatively cheap. Try a couple types once you've played tha amp a bit - Mullard RI, TungSol, EH etc


----------



## MarshallDog

I finally did it...I'll call it the *DSL40C Pre-Amp B+ Mod.

*I removed R83 and replaced it with a 2W 10K resistor and all I can say is WOW! I played it last night for about 1.5 hours with and without OD pedals and at high and low volumes and it sounds fantastic IMO. It is a very subtle change and about the only way I can describe it is that it did not affect the gain at all, it did not take away any cut to the tone it just seemed to soften the edges of the notes making then sound not so sharp. To me it sounds a bit more like an old JMP. I wish I would have done this long ago and am glad I finally got off my ass and did it. I put the resistor on studs so I can change it easily if I want thinking I may want to try an 18K resistor BUT I think that might be way to much and for now I am really happy with it and cant see me putting it back to the 4.7K resistor for any reason.

Here are the voltages I measured on pins 1 and 6 to chassis before and after the mod:

*STOCK: 10K R83:*
V1a=220 V1a=201
V1b=213 V1b=194

V2a=242 V2a=222
V2b=221 V2b=203

V3a=189 V3a=172
V3b=368 V3b=340

V4a=233 V4a=213
V4b=237 V4b=218

It really makes the Ultra Channel sound good. Now keep in mind these are my other mods:

Choke added. C4 gone, C19 gone, Celestion G12M-65 Creamback upgrade, several tone path capacitor up grades (same value caps just better quality), tube shields and I am running the JJ ECC803S (long plate) in V1 and V4 for a richer tone and a JAN-GE 5751 in V2 and V3 to reduce the gain especially on the Ultra channel. 

With this set up, I run the crunch channel in clean mode gain on 9 and I can then set Ultra 1 to my crunch channel with the gain on 4 getting me that nice AC/DC classic rock tone and even a nice blues tone with the guitar volume turned down a bit. I just like to have a dedicated clean and dirty channel. If I want more gain, I can simply crank the gain on Ultra 1 or turn on one of my OD pedals.

My EQ settings are:
T=3.5
M=6
B=5
P=4
R=5


----------



## mojorising

Can anyone point out where C91 is located on the DSL4oC, I cannot seem to locate it on the board. I found it on the print but not on the board. Any thoughts?


----------



## Micky

mojorising said:


> Can anyone point out where C91 is located on the DSL4oC, I cannot seem to locate it on the board. I found it on the print but not on the board. Any thoughts?



Do you mean C19? (not 91?)

There are photos at the beginning of this thread.


----------



## MarshallDog

mojorising said:


> Can anyone point out where C91 is located on the DSL4oC, I cannot seem to locate it on the board. I found it on the print but not on the board. Any thoughts?



Here is a pic of mine and C19m is on the bottom just to the left of center with one leg lifted.


----------



## mojorising

No, I mean C91 according to this post.

So here's the list:
C4 removed
C5 to .001uF
C19 to 180pF
C50, 51, 54 to Mallory 150 22nF 630V
C10,25,29,47,55,60 to Mojotone Dijion 47nF 630V
C2,3,18,24,91 to Mallory 150 47nF 630V


----------



## MarshallDog

mojorising said:


> No, I mean C91 according to this post.
> 
> So here's the list:
> C4 removed
> C5 to .001uF
> C19 to 180pF
> C50, 51, 54 to Mallory 150 22nF 630V
> C10,25,29,47,55,60 to Mojotone Dijion 47nF 630V
> C2,3,18,24,91 to Mallory 150 47nF 630V



I did these mods to mine. I cant remember for sure but C19 may be on the input jack board??? I think that is the one I had a heard time finding because its not on the main board.


----------



## HAmmer

MarshallDog said:


> I did these mods to mine. I cant remember for sure but C19 may be on the input jack board??? I think that is the one I had a heard time finding because its not on the main board.



Post #6
http://www.marshallforum.com/marshall-amps/53780-official-marshall-dsl40c-information-thread.html


----------



## Woody_in_MN

I just saw this thread. I got my used DSL40C about 3 weeks ago. Here are pics...

http://www.marshallforum.com/marshall-amps/84138-new-amp-dsl40c.html


----------



## Micky

Woody_in_MN said:


> I just saw this thread. I got my used DSL40C about 3 weeks ago. Here are pics...
> 
> http://www.marshallforum.com/marshall-amps/84138-new-amp-dsl40c.html



Many new members put a post in the Introduce Yourself section where they take a moment to tell everyone about themselves and the music they play.


----------



## Woody_in_MN

Micky said:


> Many new members put a post in the Introduce Yourself section where they take a moment to tell everyone about themselves and the music they play.



I am an infrequent poster, but yes. I'll do an intro over there.

A quick 2 cents, I find that on triode mode, the dsl 40 is very useable at home volumes. A truly great amp.


----------



## newplayeroldguy

dumb question here-I'm picking up a compressor pedal, where do I want to put it in the signal chain, upfront or in the FX loop? I will use no other pedals in the foreseeable future


----------



## mojorising

C91 is on the input board, I didn't think to look there. Thanks for the input…no pun intended…lol


----------



## Jethro Rocker

newplayeroldguy said:


> dumb question here-I'm picking up a compressor pedal, where do I want to put it in the signal chain, upfront or in the FX loop? I will use no other pedals in the foreseeable future



A compressor should really go up front but try it in the loop for kicks and see. You never know what you might like.


----------



## HAmmer

newplayeroldguy said:


> dumb question here-I'm picking up a compressor pedal, where do I want to put it in the signal chain, upfront or in the FX loop? I will use no other pedals in the foreseeable future



Not a Dumb question but there's no right answer, just do it to whatever sounds best to you
Let us know how it sounds


----------



## newplayeroldguy

thanks guys- will try both ways and see


----------



## markm

Hey all
My DSL40C has been running great for months and just last light I started getting a loud static noise on my red channel . It's only audible when I'm not playing. Loud enough to be bothersome between songs and just worry some overall.

What should I try first ?

I'm not very technical and I have a gig this week!


----------



## Micky

Like most tube amps, try swapping your tubes out.
Put in your spare set one-at-a-time and see if it makes any difference.


----------



## markm

Thanks!
I swapped out the first one and it got rid if the static . The one that had the rubber ring on it.
Still kind of a loud hum , but much more manageable for now.


----------



## Micky

markm said:


> Thanks!
> I swapped out the first one and it got rid if the static . The one that had the rubber ring on it.
> Still kind of a loud hum , but much more manageable for now.



That is V1.
Many people use a TAD 7025WA in that position.
It is possibly the quietest, most lo-noise preamp tube available.


----------



## markm

Micky said:


> That is V1.
> Many people use a TAD 7025WA in that position.
> It is possibly the quietest, most lo-noise preamp tube available.



Thanks again! Such a relief with a gig this Friday. 

I put in a JJ EHXECC83. Not sure what other effects this one may have?

Sounds fine and the hum is really no bother especially since I have the gain on 8 as it is.


----------



## jep1210

Dizzyg12 said:


> In route! End of day Tuesday.....gonna be a long weekend. Lol
> 
> Anyone find covers for these yet?



I'm new and just found this forum a couple of days ago. I just got my DSL40C two weeks ago, loving it BTW. I'm loving this thread too, very informative. Still going through the many pages of this post (I'm only on page 11 now) so if this is old news my apologies. I ordered one of these covers for mine, still waiting for it to show up so I can't comment on it yet. The DSL40C cover is $50. Custom Amp Covers - Marshall


----------



## Micky

jep1210 said:


> I'm new and just found this forum a couple of days ago. I just got my DSL40C two weeks ago, loving it BTW. I'm loving this thread, very informative. Still going through the many pages of this post (I'm only on page 11 now) so if this is old news my apologies. I ordered one of these covers for mine, still waiting for it to show up so I can't comment on it yet. The DSL40C cover is $50. Custom Amp Covers - Marshall



Yeah, this is a big thread and kinda unmanageable.
I created a basic index a few pages ago, but no one seems to know how to insert it at the beginning or make some sort of sticky about it...

Many new members put a post in the Introduce Yourself section where they can take a moment to tell us all about themselves and what kind of gear they use and the music they play. Good to have you here!


----------



## ken361

Got to play Soldano SLO yesterday at ĞC through a Orange 412! Pretty sweet gain monster!loud as hell I could see with the huge transformers


----------



## jep1210

emunder said:


> Pretty damn good clip of the 100 right here....kid can play!
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zN9jHt6ml_E



This right here is the tone I'd love to get. I know he's playing into a 100H through a Cabinet but can any of the modification mentioned (or not mentioned) get this sound from the 40C without pedals. I'm not apposed to pedals, just wondering if I should stop wasting my efforts. I will mention again I AM only on page 16 of this thread so forgive me if this is answered some where in 130 pages I still have to go?


----------



## jep1210

Micky said:


> Yeah, this is a big thread and kinda unmanageable.
> I created a basic index a few pages ago, but no one seems to know how to insert it at the beginning or make some sort of sticky about it...
> 
> Many new members put a post in the Introduce Yourself section where they can take a moment to tell us all about themselves and what kind of gear they use and the music they play. Good to have you here!



Yeah, my apologize. I have a bad habit of skipping that introduction step on forums I join...not really good at chatting myself up 

I did see your index  and will be referring to that in the future


----------



## rlowe

Hello, I Just purchased a $10.00 GE 2527 14 range multimeter to bias my dsl40c. The meter has standard positive-negative test probe (pins) to measure with, and a 500 DC V or 500 AC V peak above earth ground. Functions: DCV with range 10, 250, 500. DCA with range 250m, 10m, 500u. ACV, and OHM. Can I use this meter to check plate voltage negative end of probe resting in chassis screw hole grounding while holding positive to pin#3, and what setting would I use on meter? Also what setting would I use to check the plate current at 3 bias prongs? Thank you! rlowe


----------



## Micky

Sorry, but no.
It's lowest DV voltage range is 10V.
You will not be able to reliably read 20-30 millivolts DC.


----------



## Bownse

"If it works, it's a FLUKE"


----------



## tman

Hey all you DSL40C players I came up with a great sounding tube combination for warm,smooth,darker kinda of tone that you can actually use treble and presence for.Its a JJECC83(MID GAIN) in V-1/I have a JJECC83-s in V-2/V-3 is a JJ 5751 lower gain tube/V-4 Sovtek LPS 12ax7.This combination also makes gain way more usuable and gets rid of the fizz.Try it I think you may like it.Let me know what you think if anybody tries this combination.


----------



## xlnt

I've had my DSL40C for a few month now, and while playing the volume dropped to barely audible and there was a bunch of popping and crackles. Being my first tube amp, I did a bunch of reading and did my best to check my tubes. 

The following are my observations and may be completely normal behavior for the tubes:

The V1 12AX7 glows a LOT brighter than the other three, and makes a harmonic ring sound through the speaker when tapped. V2-V4 make no sounds when tapped.

Both the power tubes have a faint bluish glow when the amp is not on standby, and make a faint rattling noise when tapped. I do not hear anything through the speaker.

Like I said, I'm a tube noob and I don't really know which tube would cause the amp to lose 99% of its volume. (i can get about 30dB with gain and volume at 10) Common sense tells me the power tubes, but I have no real idea.

Thanks for any and all assistance.


----------



## gadgetfreak

If you have a known good 12ax7/ecc83 swap out starting at v1. I bet that's your culprit, shouldn't be microphonic. When swapping power tubes you want to do them in matched pairs and bias the amp. Again I think your v1 is dodgy. Good luck


----------



## gadgetfreak

Can you guys that own a Dsl40 and have played a dsl50 head say that they more or less hit the dsl40 mark for tones? I want to grab one for the ease of moving it but I can grab a dsl50 head/cab right now as well which I know sound's great. I owned the dsl40 when they came out and didnt give it a chance.


----------



## MarshallDog

xlnt said:


> I've had my DSL40C for a few month now, and while playing the volume dropped to barely audible and there was a bunch of popping and crackles. Being my first tube amp, I did a bunch of reading and did my best to check my tubes.
> 
> The following are my observations and may be completely normal behavior for the tubes:
> 
> The V1 12AX7 glows a LOT brighter than the other three, and makes a harmonic ring sound through the speaker when tapped. V2-V4 make no sounds when tapped.
> 
> Both the power tubes have a faint bluish glow when the amp is not on standby, and make a faint rattling noise when tapped. I do not hear anything through the speaker.
> 
> Like I said, I'm a tube noob and I don't really know which tube would cause the amp to lose 99% of its volume. (i can get about 30dB with gain and volume at 10) Common sense tells me the power tubes, but I have no real idea.
> 
> Thanks for any and all assistance.



I would have to say it's V1. If you tap it and it acts up its almost guaranteed it's gone micro phonic...just change it out.


----------



## ledvedder

I have a DSL40c that I'd like to trade for a DSL head. I've come to the conclusion that I'm more of a head guy. I'd also sell it, if anyone's interested. It's in great condition.


----------



## HAmmer

ledvedder said:


> I have a DSL40c that I'd like to trade for a DSL head. I've come to the conclusion that I'm more of a head guy. I'd also sell it, if anyone's interested. It's in great condition.



Use the classifieds to sell gear
Member Classifieds - MarshallForum.com


----------



## jep1210

tman said:


> Hey all you DSL40C players I came up with a great sounding tube combination for warm,smooth,darker kinda of tone that you can actually use treble and presence for.Its a JJECC83(MID GAIN) in V-1/I have a JJECC83-s in V-2/V-3 is a JJ 5751 lower gain tube/V-4 Sovtek LPS 12ax7.This combination also makes gain way more usuable and gets rid of the fizz.Try it I think you may like it.Let me know what you think if anybody tries this combination.



Hmmm, sounds interesting. Any chance you can post a clip so we can hear it?


----------



## jep1210

ucnick said:


> FWIW - I used the my DSL40C with my ABB trib band last Fri night - you can check out the C19-modded sound (both stage volume and from the PA) on this YT video my wife shot: The Allman Step Brothers Perform "In Memory Of Elizabeth Reed"/EJ Phairs/Pittsburg CA/031513 - YouTube - I'm the guy with the Les Paul gold-top and tie-dye tshirt, you can see my DSL40C behind me and to my left. It is stock except for the C19 mod, which I found really helped. It sounds pretty danged good even through the little mic on the camera. My solo starts at 6:49, you can really hear it there. I was using it on half-power mode with volume about 10 o'clock, gain at about the same, red channel and with the gain switch set for high gain. No distortion or boost pedals, just a volume pedal - it sounds great with my gold-top, of course! Guys in the band loved it!



Dang, that's smooth...tone wise and playing wise. The Allman Bros aren't my thing but your rendition of that song is great and that GT through your DSL is killer....maybe the Allman Bros. ARE my thing 

J.P.


----------



## manofsteel2397

I've owned the dsl40 for about 9 months now, and I only get to play on it a couple times a month, so it took a long time to break it in, but now that the speaker is broken in and I don't get the flub sound anymore ....this amp is awesome. I have the sweetwater cream back special no mods


----------



## jep1210

Can someone help me out here? I've read and re-read page one for two days and can't find anything that shows how to measure "plate voltage" to get what 70% should be when biasing. I thought someone (Micky?) said it was on page one, or are we just “blindly” going with plate voltage being 450 (I think that's the number I read SOMEWHERE) without actually checking?

This is a great thread but extremely difficult to navigate, that’s why I’m creating a document with any interesting/useful info I come across. It seems just reading once or twice isn’t making all this great info stick in my pea brain.


----------



## Micky

http://www.marshallforum.com/workbench/66472-dsl40c-plate-voltage.html#post1065799

Pin 3 of one of the power tubes.
Should be 465 VDC in the US...


----------



## ken361

Bias video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jj3hSEjySxg


----------



## jep1210

ken361 said:


> Bias video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jj3hSEjySxg



Thank you Micky and Ken. Ken, that video clears things up tremendously.


----------



## gadgetfreak

has anybody tried out a scumback speaker in this amp? I've used one before in other amps and it was amazing. Everyone seems to rave about creambacks what about scumbacks? I would love to hear a clip


----------



## gemineye76

okay an update on the rig, just because after so many years of messing with so many variations of pedals to get so many sounds here it is:

Guitars:

Gibson Les Paul Studio (2003) stripped the "wine red" and went with walnut stain x2, cherry stain x1 quick wipe off then shellac. Kept the gold hardware but flat black on bridge and stop bar and got a custom wood truss-rod cover

Ibanez AEG10NII classical acoustic electric (just got it, LOVE IT!)

Effects:

Micro POG >
Dunlop original Wah (MC404CAE MOD) >
EHX Russian Big Muff Pi (Whizzer twin-toggle MOD) >
EHX Micro Synth >
DOD FX70 Stereo Flanger (vintage 1983) >
MOEN MO-VB2 Shaky Jimi Vibe/Chorus >
Ibanez AD-9 Analog Delay (Keeley true-bypass MOD) >

Marshall DSL40C (C19 MOD, all JJ EL34 blue power tubes, all JJ ECC803S gold-pin matched balanced hi-performance preamp tubes
- Celestion Vintage 30 (Hellatone 60 by Avatar)
Marshall JCM C12 Extension Cab
- Celestion G12H30 Heritage (Hellatone 30 by Avatar)

no going back, this IS the rig I am sticking with. Though I might consider swapping in a dirty fingers and P94 for the stock 500 and 498 pickups in the Les Paul. geez, I'm never done. Anybody think that is a good idea/bad idea/better idea?


----------



## MarshallDog

gadgetfreak said:


> has anybody tried out a scumback speaker in this amp? I've used one before in other amps and it was amazing. Everyone seems to rave about creambacks what about scumbacks? I would love to hear a clip



I have tried a few Scumback M75's I think they are the G12M copies, and although they are good, the Creamback kicks its ass IMHO! Its thicker, sweeter with more tone overall plus it looks cool and its a Celestion. The only reason I was using the Scums is because Clestion did not have a high power G12M option. And yes, I had the blue frame ones and the black frame ones...no difference that I could tell.


----------



## IRG

My DLS-40CST just arrived. At home, while I'm at work. Going to be a long couple hours wait...


----------



## gadgetfreak

MarshallDog what's up man I appreciate your response. I guess I will take a chance with the creamback just because so many are gooing over it and I don't see a peep about much other speakers.

Now I know because certain stores sell it this way it's going to have a buzz but I can read through the lines and I'm hearing very good things all around about the celestion creamback.

I may get a scumback just to try out just because I put one in a fender once and holy Sam did it deliver and I know there really meant for marshally type tones so if it could deliver in the Fender I bet it would be nice in this. Pete thorn has some nice demo's of the H-65 I believe and it sounds great but it's not in this Marshall. Thanks again MarshallDog


----------



## rlowe

ken361 said:


> Bias video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jj3hSEjySxg



New video welcome, yes...yes indeed!


----------



## HAmmer




----------



## IRG

So I had maybe an hour or two last night to test out. Way too early to make any definitive comments on it. But here goes.

1. It is pretty awesome
2. The clean channel was a surprise, as has been mentioned by others. Really nice tones.
3. However, moving from clean to crunch the volume discrepancy is very noticeable, but with more time I might be able to dial it in better.
4. Crunch channel is very nice too, and works great with pedals.
5. Lead 1/2 are great, and can't wait to spend more time with them. I have a Wampler Triple-Wreck high gain pedal, and it does sound more processed now that I hear both. The Wampler is tighter, more mid scooped. Amp is a little looser, but much more organic. I still love the Triple Wreck with my Fender amp, but that amp lacked any sort of mid to higher gain distortion, and also has less mids, so the two worked well together.
6. I have a Wampler Euphoria pedal that I felt didn't have enough mid range presence with my Fender, but with the Marshall it works great. I have a Wampler Clarksdale (TS-808 based) coming and am curious to see how this will match up with the Marshall.

7. First effects loop for me, and I have a delay, tremolo, reverb and an Boss RC-3 looper in the effects loop. Works good so far, but I have some tweaking to do, and a new delay coming in a day or two, excited to see how this will all flesh out.

8. I found the amount of power of the DSL40 manageable for home/studio use. I was surprised when I unboxed it, how much bigger and heavier it was over my Fender Humboldt(souped up Blues Jr.). The Fender is loud for 15w. THe Marshall at 20w seemed comfortable for home use. Then I dialed up the volume more (had gain at half way, on the Lead channels) and man it rips. Really loud, really impactful. Love it. Yes, I would/will likely go deaf at this level if I leave here for too long. But it sounds good too with the volume lowered, so big plus for being versatile.

9. For small/medium gigs I am sure it can hold it's own, especially at the 40w setting. I was glad to see though, that there is a fairly noticeable different between the settings, it isn't just a gimmick.

10. Can't wait for the Creamback speaker to break in, and the tubes too. I'm looking into getting a second set of preamp tubes, to experiment with in the future. I'll keep the stock ones in there for a while, until I get used to the amp's tone.

I'm going to write an article (I'm a contributing writer for ProGuitarShop - The Tone Report) on the effects of what happens when switching amps. This is primarily a pedal based magazine, but we cover amps and guitars too. But in my case, I'm moving from a smaller single channel Fender amp, to a larger multi channel Marshall amp with an effects loop. How are fuzzes impacted? Overdrives needed? If so which ones work best? Boosts, compressors, etc. I can see how people prefer amp drive over pedal gain easily enough. That doesn't necessarily mean pedals are useless - it does mean that different pedals can be used to further enhance the tone you have. Should be an interesting article (at least for me!) as I change setups over the coming weeks. Thanks for reading all of this


----------



## ken361

Soon as you throw pedals in a amp it looses its mojo like warmth and that IMO even one pedal with effect your tone some when its off, people may argue I use all Mogami and still can tell when you start adding pedals and more cables in the mix. I would still love a good delay though. Try jamming loud with and with out pedals, there's some difference


----------



## MarshallDog

You guys ever notice that if you leave your EQ knobs set as is for some time and don't turn them, when you do they are stiff and turn harder than normal. This just happened to me the other day with the Reverb knobs. they have been set for several months and when I went to adjust them, they didn't turn nice and easy After some twisting, they turn easy once again.


----------



## ken361

MarshallDog said:


> You guys ever notice that if you leave your EQ knobs set as is for some time and don't turn them, when you do they are stiff and turn harder than normal. This just happened to me the other day with the Reverb knobs. they have been set for several months and when I went to adjust them, they didn't turn nice and easy After some twisting, they turn easy once again.



I keep mine covered when not in use, dust isnt good for anything


----------



## IRG

ken361 said:


> Soon as you throw pedals in a amp it looses its mojo like warmth and that IMO even one pedal with effect your tone some when its off, people may argue I use all Mogami and still can tell when you start adding pedals and more cables in the mix. I would still love a good delay though. Try jamming loud with and with out pedals, there's some difference



I'll certainly being trying that, and I've done so in the past with other amps. And I can't say in those cases I would agree with your findings, but in a sense I do get it - pure guitar to amp is indeed the cleanest signal path. I do find though, good pedals, with good cables should never muck up the signal path when engaged, or should only supplement your tone - in however manner you want it to. If it does decrease the 'mojo' then either the pedal or cables aren't up to snuff. Plus I will almost always take a little hit in the tone department over the added flexibility and fun that comes from adding some pedals. The spice of life and all. But I've seen it overdone too. Everyone's got a little different goal in life when it comes to how to create the tone that is best for them.


----------



## ken361

Pedals can be fun no doubt! I was boosting mine with a true bypass for a few weeks and all good but when I turned the pedal off I noticed the crunch channel was lacking some luster. Most people wouldnt care but I kinda prefer it the way it is. I a/b it a few good times and though it was pretty dam close to be just like plugging in. Then later on I tried it again and could tell something was missing. First using a battery or power supply is best over a One Spot. Its funny how you hear things different at other times


----------



## tman

I love using a tube based OD pedal with this amp.IMO they sound the best.I use both a Vintage tube monster VT-999 I believe and a EH ENGLISH MUFFN pedal using real preamp tubes.When you use these kinda OD pedals with this amp it gives it such a nice sweet warmth and thump that other OD pedals IMO can't deliver. Try these they work awesome!!


----------



## AxeMaker

cruisemates said:


> Re: Effects volume drop ---
> 
> Got thr chassis open, turned off all volume & definitely hear a LOUD "pop" (I assume relay) when I let the switch out, so I assume it working. I am guessing those CaA&B mean to molex connectors so I will clean those now. (Think I see that in there)
> 
> FIXED!!!
> 
> {edited for brevity}




Can you send a a bigger pic of the FX board? I am curious if there are any adjustments on it.

Thank you !
Dean


----------



## Micky

AxeMaker said:


> Can you send a a bigger pic of the FX board? I am curious if there are any adjustments on it.
> 
> Thank you !
> Dean



No adjustments on the digital reverb daughtercard.


----------



## ken361

Anybody using a telecaster on the red 1? my main guitar is a Les paul and I have a MIM HHS strat I use once in a while. I was testing a Tele last week it had a nice roar a tad better over the SSH strat. Is the tone any thicker over a strat at high volumes? they seem pretty close when I played them at the store. Cant swing a upgrade on pups so im talking all stock.


----------



## Axeplyr

ken361 said:


> Anybody using a telecaster on the red 1? my main guitar is a Les paul and I have a MIM HHS strat I use once in a while. I was testing a Tele last week it had a nice roar a tad better over the SSH strat. Is the tone any thicker over a strat at high volumes? they seem pretty close when I played them at the store. Cant swing a upgrade on pups so im talking all stock.



I have a Les Paul, Strat and a couple Teles. The Teles are my favorite in general and through this amp! Teles have a little of everything - they can roar, sing, get bluesy, gritty, and sweet. And everything in between! 

I'm thinking the stock pickups will be fine as well... no need for a change.


----------



## MarshallDog

AxeMaker said:


> Can you send a a bigger pic of the FX board? I am curious if there are any adjustments on it.
> 
> Thank you !
> Dean



There are not adjustments at all on the reverb board...


----------



## AxeMaker

I would still like to see it and possibly the components used on it if it is hi-res enough.


----------



## Micky

AxeMaker said:


> I would still like to see it and possibly the components used on it if it is hi-res enough.



Photo is near the beginning of this thread.
You didn't see it?


----------



## Micky




----------



## AxeMaker

No I didn't, thank you very much ! I appreciate it. 
There are so many posts and I try to skim past the chat to find relevant info and must have missed it.


----------



## Micky

AxeMaker said:


> No I didn't, thank you very much ! I appreciate it.
> There are so many posts and I try to skim past the chat to find relevant info and must have missed it.



You are now forbidden to post anything more until you read this thread in it's entirety.

As a proud DSL40c owner, you owe it to yourself to get educated as to the ins and outs of this combo. You owe it to others to educate yourself so that you don't ask questions that may have already been answered here. Mostly you should read this thread so you can find the tips and tricks to get the most out of your amp.

Just kidding of course, but I cannot tell you how much critically important stuff there is here. Everything you wanted to know is here. Believe me, there are enough of these amps out there, and enough people here working on them who post here that just about every scenario will pop up eventually.

Even the chat is somewhat relevant.

There is an index somewhere back a few pages, and if someone would give me access to the beginning of this thread, I would re-post it...


----------



## HAmmer

Post #4030

http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...sl40c-information-thread-135.html#post1322948


----------



## Micky

Crap. Even the PermaLink doesn't work right...
If you have your page length set differently this one might work:
http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...sl40c-information-thread-101.html#post1322948

It all depends on what page #4030 is on...


----------



## MarshallDog

Micky said:


> Crap. Even the PermaLink doesn't work right...
> If you have your page length set differently this one might work:
> http://www.marshallforum.com/marsha...sl40c-information-thread-101.html#post1322948
> 
> It all depends on what page #4030 is on...



The link worked for me! You should add this mod to the list also, right now its on page 3 or three pages back...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_I finally did it...I'll call it the *DSL40C Pre-Amp B+ Mod.

*I removed R83 and replaced it with a 2W 10K resistor and all I can say is WOW! I played it last night for about 1.5 hours with and without OD pedals and at high and low volumes and it sounds fantastic IMO. It is a very subtle change and about the only way I can describe it is that it did not affect the gain at all, it did not take away any cut to the tone it just seemed to soften the edges of the notes making then sound not so sharp. To me it sounds a bit more like an old JMP. I wish I would have done this long ago and am glad I finally got off my ass and did it. I put the resistor on studs so I can change it easily if I want thinking I may want to try an 18K resistor BUT I think that might be way to much and for now I am really happy with it and cant see me putting it back to the 4.7K resistor for any reason.

Here are the voltages I measured on pins 1 and 6 to chassis before and after the mod:

*STOCK: 10K R83:*
V1a=220 V1a=201
V1b=213 V1b=194

V2a=242 V2a=222
V2b=221 V2b=203

V3a=189 V3a=172
V3b=368 V3b=340

V4a=233 V4a=213
V4b=237 V4b=218

It really makes the Ultra Channel sound good. Now keep in mind these are my other mods:

Choke added. C4 gone, C19 gone, Celestion G12M-65 Creamback upgrade, several tone path capacitor up grades (same value caps just better quality), tube shields and I am running the JJ ECC803S (long plate) in V1 and V4 for a richer tone and a JAN-GE 5751 in V2 and V3 to reduce the gain especially on the Ultra channel. 

With this set up, I run the crunch channel in clean mode gain on 9 and I can then set Ultra 1 to my crunch channel with the gain on 4 getting me that nice AC/DC classic rock tone and even a nice blues tone with the guitar volume turned down a bit. I just like to have a dedicated clean and dirty channel. If I want more gain, I can simply crank the gain on Ultra 1 or turn on one of my OD pedals.

My EQ settings are:
T=3.5
M=6
B=5
P=4
R=5 _


----------



## Micky

Link depends on your page length. The default will probably work OK. I have mine set longer, and signatures turned off.


----------



## Bownse

Micky said:


> You are now forbidden to post anything more until you read this thread in it's entirety.
> 
> As a proud DSL40c owner, you owe it to yourself to get educated as to the ins and outs of this combo. You owe it to others to educate yourself so that you don't ask questions that may have already been answered here. Mostly you should read this thread so you can find the tips and tricks to get the most out of your amp.



It's a right of passage we've all endured. 



> Just kidding of course, but I cannot tell you how much critically important stuff there is here.



The wording is clearly tongue in cheek but the advice is sound.


----------



## Micky

Bownse said:


> It's a right of passage we've all endured.
> 
> 
> 
> The wording is clearly tongue in cheek but the advice is sound.



Thanks. There are a LOT of people here that contributed to this mess of a thread, but there are some great pix here as well as tons of useful info.

Kudos to all who have endured, and to all that have contributed.


----------



## AxeMaker

Micky said:


> You are now forbidden to post anything more until you read this thread in it's entirety.
> 
> As a proud DSL40c owner, you owe it to yourself to get educated as to the ins and outs of this combo. You owe it to others to educate yourself so that you don't ask questions that may have already been answered here. Mostly you should read this thread so you can find the tips and tricks to get the most out of your amp.
> 
> Just kidding of course, but I cannot tell you how much critically important stuff there is here. Everything you wanted to know is here. Believe me, there are enough of these amps out there, and enough people here working on them who post here that just about every scenario will pop up eventually.
> 
> Even the chat is somewhat relevant.
> 
> There is an index somewhere back a few pages, and if someone would give me access to the beginning of this thread, I would re-post it...



LOL yeah so many pages so little time... I have a little bit of a technical background so I have tended to drift to the technical information. I am certainly not an engineer by any stretch, Amateur Radio.

But there just has to be a way to boost or unrestrict that DSP signal either on the board, or just after it comes off the board. I am just saying a little bit for those that want a bit more reverb without resorting to pedals.

_________
Dean


----------



## Micky

AxeMaker said:


> LOL yeah so many pages so little time... I have a little bit of a technical background so I have tended to drift to the technical information. I am certainly not an engineer by any stretch, Amateur Radio.
> 
> But there just has to be a way to boost or unrestrict that DSP signal either on the board, or just after it comes off the board. I am just saying a little bit for those that want a bit more reverb without resorting to pedals.
> 
> _________
> Dean



I understand completely. This thread should be treated as a reference, and if you can navigate the index we created, you should be able to hit the highlights.

Ham radio huh? Seems like all of us gravitate here sooner or later...


----------



## AxeMaker

You too eh ?


----------



## Micky

axemaker said:


> you too eh ?



k1xh
Macro is a ham too.


----------



## AxeMaker

Cool!

de W4DDM


----------



## jep1210

USAPatriot said:


> I always check this thread first for new posts!
> 
> I decided that I'm keeping the Jet City cab that I just put the Vintage 30 into. It's just too good. The lows, mids and highs seem much more balanced and I know I won't get there with that speaker in the combo, though I do intend to test it in there. The closed back is just inherently better than the open back. Right now I'm not thinking about making the DSL into a head. Maybe next year, or not. In 2010 we had a fire and got burned out, along with 9 other families. The guy that did our cabinets just happens to be the son of a good friend of my father in law. If anything, I'm thinking of maybe having him make a proper combo up with real wood. No tolex, just stain and a high gloss varnish. Birdseye would be too cool!! Or maybe have it matched to my Les Paul? Or is that too corny?  -Rod-



Damn!!!! That gives me same feeling as looking at porn....well almost.  I may have a problem.


----------



## MarshallDog

MarshallDog said:


> I finally did it...I'll call it the *DSL40C Pre-Amp B+ Mod.
> 
> *I removed R83 and replaced it with a 2W 10K resistor and all I can say is WOW! I played it last night for about 1.5 hours with and without OD pedals and at high and low volumes and it sounds fantastic IMO. It is a very subtle change and about the only way I can describe it is that it did not affect the gain at all, it did not take away any cut to the tone it just seemed to soften the edges of the notes making then sound not so sharp. To me it sounds a bit more like an old JMP. I wish I would have done this long ago and am glad I finally got off my ass and did it. I put the resistor on studs so I can change it easily if I want thinking I may want to try an 18K resistor BUT I think that might be way to much and for now I am really happy with it and cant see me putting it back to the 4.7K resistor for any reason.
> 
> Here are the voltages I measured on pins 1 and 6 to chassis before and after the mod:
> 
> *STOCK: 10K R83:*
> V1a=220 V1a=201
> V1b=213 V1b=194
> 
> V2a=242 V2a=222
> V2b=221 V2b=203
> 
> V3a=189 V3a=172
> V3b=368 V3b=340
> 
> V4a=233 V4a=213
> V4b=237 V4b=218
> 
> It really makes the Ultra Channel sound good. Now keep in mind these are my other mods:
> 
> Choke added. C4 gone, C19 gone, Celestion G12M-65 Creamback upgrade, several tone path capacitor up grades (same value caps just better quality), tube shields and I am running the JJ ECC803S (long plate) in V1 and V4 for a richer tone and a JAN-GE 5751 in V2 and V3 to reduce the gain especially on the Ultra channel.
> 
> With this set up, I run the crunch channel in clean mode gain on 9 and I can then set Ultra 1 to my crunch channel with the gain on 4 getting me that nice AC/DC classic rock tone and even a nice blues tone with the guitar volume turned down a bit. I just like to have a dedicated clean and dirty channel. If I want more gain, I can simply crank the gain on Ultra 1 or turn on one of my OD pedals.
> 
> My EQ settings are:
> T=3.5
> M=6
> B=5
> P=4
> R=5



*UPDATE:*

Well, I had some time the other day was was very curious how an 18K (17.4K) resistor would affect the tone so I tried it. Its only been two days and I have tried playing at all volumes with the same EQ settings an it sounds really good. I thought it would be too much. It makes the tone less stiff and those highs are more rounded but I can't say the amp is dark at all. Just sounds more like an older amp with a PT output voltage of 390. I think I may keep it. Here are the pre-amp voltage readings:

_*STOCK: 10K R83: 18K R83:*
V1a=220 V1a=201 V1a=173
V1b=213 V1b=194 V1b=168

V2a=242 V2a=222 V2a=195
V2b=221 V2b=203 V2b=177

V3a=189 V3a=172 V3a=151
V3b=368 V3b=340 V3b=297

V4a=233 V4a=213 V4a=187
V4b=237 V4b=218 V4b=190_


----------



## AxeMaker

Hi Folks,

I am still trying to read through everything in this thread and... absorb it.

When I try to follow the list of links that have been compiled every so often I am not sure if the info is new info that is different or if it is info that replaces old info etc... This also goes for the info that is posted from time to time with tubes, capacitors etc... Is one mod a new mod or is it replacing a mod because it has been found to be better?

Another note regarding the mods... I notice with all of the different mods that are posted, how many of them are completely different from one another, versus the same mod just using different value components etc...

Just how many different mods are there for the DSL40C and what do they do? 
What are the various tube combinations and the sound results?

But I have a question/suggestion if I may for that would help everyone on the MarshallForum. Can someone that is much more adept with amp innards compile the information into a single concise document(s)? Maybe a shared spreadsheet(s) in Google Docs that several people can contribute to then post from time to time as a single concise document?


----------



## Bownse

AxeMaker said:


> Hi Folks,
> 
> I am still trying to read through everything in this thread and... absorb it.
> 
> When I try to follow the list of links that have been compiled every so often I am not sure if the info is new info that is different or if it is info that replaces old info etc... This also goes for the info that is posted from time to time with tubes, capacitors etc... Is one mod a new mod or is it replacing a mod because it has been found to be better?



That's the problem with time logs. You always have a problem with tenses. Has it yet happened or is it already to be?


----------



## obiwan7373

I have a DSL100H. Per some good reviews on this thread, I added a Classictone choke and swapped to a Classictone OT. I went to bias after installing and one side I can easily adjust each tube to 38 each, 76 total, V5/V6. On the other side, I can't get the tubes to go any lower than 50 each, 100 total, V7/V8, the bias adjustment dial, won't turn anymore. I don't recall this happening before the mods, I got each tube to be 38. Does anyone have any insight as to why this is happening now? Thanks


----------



## Micky

obiwan7373 said:


> I have a DSL100H. Per some good reviews on this thread, I added a Classictone choke and swapped to a Classictone OT. I went to bias after installing and one side I can easily adjust each tube to 38 each, 76 total, V5/V6. On the other side, I can't get the tubes to go any lower than 50 each, 100 total, V7/V8, the bias adjustment dial, won't turn anymore. I don't recall this happening before the mods, I got each tube to be 38. Does anyone have any insight as to why this is happening now? Thanks



Have you swapped tubes or are they all original?
Did you check bias BEFORE the mods?
Me thinks it is a tube problem...


----------



## Micky

AxeMaker said:


> I am not sure if the info is new info that is different or if it is info that replaces old info etc...



There is no NEW info or OLD info, only INFO.

Who is to say something is better than another? 
It is ALL subjective, it is up to YOU to do YOUR research.

And this is why we are all here. 
To discuss things, ask and answer questions, and show off a bit.

In the end it is YOUR amp, do with it what YOU wanna do.
Don't let anyone here force you to do anything...

(I just re-read this, and I think I am starting to sound like Dreyn... OH NO!)


----------



## obiwan7373

Micky said:


> Have you swapped tubes or are they all original?
> Did you check bias BEFORE the mods?
> Me thinks it is a tube problem...



I did bias the amp before the mods with the stock tubes. After the mods, I installed new tubes to bias, and I have this issue. I use a Weber Bias Rite to do the adjusting, do you recommend using a meter with the test prongs instead. What would make you think it is a tube issue?

Voltage on either side is 445-455, so that is consistent. 

DSL100H mods performed. Classic Tone 40-18058 choke, Classic Tone 40-18026 OT is what I installed, also removed the C19


----------



## AxeMaker

Micky said:


> There is no NEW info or OLD info, only INFO.
> 
> Who is to say something is better than another?
> It is ALL subjective, it is up to YOU to do YOUR research.
> 
> And this is why we are all here.
> To discuss things, ask and answer questions, and show off a bit.
> 
> In the end it is YOUR amp, do with it what YOU wanna do.
> Don't let anyone here force you to do anything...
> 
> (I just re-read this, and I think I am starting to sound like Dreyn... OH NO!)



But for someone trying to learn and understand what does what... this is all greek. It does almost nothing for me to hear "I switched out V1 with this tube, and V2 with that tube" and it sounds great now.

Just saying...


----------



## ken361

I only changed the speaker and the preamp tubes, the amp rocks great with a Les Paul I owned a lot of amps over 8 years and really like this one. Plug straight in is all you need and a good guitar cable


----------



## AxeMaker

ken361 said:


> I only changed the speaker and the preamp tubes, the amp rocks great with a Les Paul I owned a lot of amps over 8 years and really like this one. Plug straight in is all you need and a good guitar cable



Which speaker?
Which preamp tubes?
How did it change the sound before vs. after the change?


----------



## PtTimeRckr

AxeMaker said:


> Which speaker?
> Which preamp tubes?
> How did it change the sound before vs. after the change?



I'll give this a try, speaking as a relative noob here myself.

1. There is only the one speaker. Most go to the Creamback because they like it. It's a subjective opinion. If you don't know what a creamback is, or the difference between that and the stock 70/80, then you probably need to spend some time with google.
2. There are 4 pre-amp tubes. I'm guessing he swapped them all, likely with a variety across the four slots. Again, if you don't know what each pre-amp tube does, google again.
3. Words can't really capture sound. I know that sounds weird and dismissive, but many try to describe what they're after or what the changes did for them. Another subjective opinion.

What Micky was saying was, sit back and absorb for awhile. All will become clear. You need to learn about your new amp, and you need to do it for yourself. No one can do that for you. However, there are many awesome people on this forum who share their stuff, knowledge and ideas to help each other out. It's a big ask to have someone catalog the best of 150 pages of wisdom. Even bigger to know what variations are "best." This is art, not science. Informed by science and engineering, sure. But art, nonetheless.

My humble advice: sit back. be patient. let the wisdom wash over you.

oh, and rock your face off!


----------



## Micky

AxeMaker said:


> But for someone trying to learn and understand what does what... this is all greek. It does almost nothing for me to hear "I switched out V1 with this tube, and V2 with that tube" and it sounds great now.
> 
> Just saying...



OK, so you are talking about 2 different things here...

Understanding the terminology, and modding the amp.

If you cane here to find a dictionary about the innards of an amp, then you came to the wrong place. I know I personally have done very little to explain basics to readers, and this really is on purpose.

If you don't understand the basics, you might not have any business modifying an amp. Safety is very important in this respect, as there are lethal voltages inside an amp that can kill you. Only trained technicians who are qualified to work on this equipment should be doing things like modding or repairing a tube amp. Is that gonna stop your average Joe from doing it? No.

After you DO get the basics and start to understand the terminology things in this thread, as well as many others here will start to make sense. Mind you, there are some very intelligent people here and many of them try very hard to help users do what is in their best interest. But it is STILL up to you what you decide to do with your amp, whether you decide you want to try to modify it or not.

There are many things described here that even novice users can accomplish with ease, and you will also find many things that advanced users will have difficulty with. Again, it is up to you to decide how you want your amp to sound, and what modifications (if any) you choose to perform.

Rest assured, there are many here that will do all they can to help.

Just ask.


----------



## ken361

AxeMaker said:


> Which speaker?
> Which preamp tubes?
> How did it change the sound before vs. after the change?



I put Warehouse speaker British lead in I got a good deal on it! it smoothed the tone out right away, less bright. I still run the treble at 4 or so. Preamp tubes I did a couple of changes over since January when I bought the amp. Tungsol v1 JJ803 v2 adds some warmth v3 gold lion v4 im using a older groove tube Mullard reissue labeled penta its a nice PI tube the stock JJ preamp tubes add more a slightly harsher end and darker at the same time I never use those tubes in my amps, not too smooth sounding.


----------



## AxeMaker

PtTimeRckr said:


> I'll give this a try, speaking as a relative noob here myself.
> 
> 1. There is only the one speaker. Most go to the Creamback because they like it. It's a subjective opinion. If you don't know what a creamback is, or the difference between that and the stock 70/80, then you probably need to spend some time with google.
> 2. There are 4 pre-amp tubes. I'm guessing he swapped them all, likely with a variety across the four slots. Again, if you don't know what each pre-amp tube does, google again.
> 3. Words can't really capture sound. I know that sounds weird and dismissive, but many try to describe what they're after or what the changes did for them. Another subjective opinion.
> 
> What Micky was saying was, sit back and absorb for awhile. All will become clear. You need to learn about your new amp, and you need to do it for yourself. No one can do that for you. However, there are many awesome people on this forum who share their stuff, knowledge and ideas to help each other out. It's a big ask to have someone catalog the best of 150 pages of wisdom. Even bigger to know what variations are "best." This is art, not science. Informed by science and engineering, sure. But art, nonetheless.
> 
> My humble advice: sit back. be patient. let the wisdom wash over you.
> 
> oh, and rock your face off!



I know there is only one speaker... The question is what did he replace the original speaker with?

Why have a forum if I have to Google to get the information about the preamp tubes? This is what forums are for, to exchange information.

It's frustrating sifting through it all when all of the information can easily be presented in a format that can be much more useful to people. That's all I am saying.

I know I am sounding a bit curse, I am just trying to type this out quickly because I am in the middle of something, sorry...


----------



## ken361

Say when your playing loud and you find something you dont like. Too bright you adjust the amps knobs. Then try different preamp tubes to dial in your tone you want, adjust pickups again I always find some minor adjustment to find the sweet spot! were you set up the amp can affect tone, on the floor or up high set on something it will add bass or lower it. I get a fuller red channel at my girls house with a drop ceiling and carpet on the floor opposed to my house built in 1960 and having a tile floor and not setup near a wall.
I have to add some bass at my house on the red channel to get a fuller sound , where my girls condo I drop the bass to 3 compared to 5.


----------



## rodd

What are the value for money pre amp tubes I can use for this DLS 40C.
Ones I find on amazon are tung sol and mullard Reissues. I want to use something diffrerent to JJ, as the stock ones have been found to be JJ's. Something easy to get on amazon is all I want.


----------



## ken361

rodd said:


> What are the value for money pre amp tubes I can use for this DLS 40C.
> Ones I find on amazon are tung sol and mullard Reissues. I want to use something diffrerent to JJ, as the stock ones have been found to be JJ's. Something easy to get on amazon is all I want.


Could go Tungsol v1 jj803 or Mullard v2,v3 EH or v4 have to see what works for ya. Old stock tubes are good if you get the right ones


----------



## Pumpkin88

I've heard so many comparison videos with tube changes I can't even tell the difference. In many cases the stock tubes are adequate. The only time I hear a significant difference is when you go from a EL-34 power tube to a KT-88. Otherwise its like buying a different brand of a light bulb, ultimately they all do the same thing.


----------



## Berserk

Hi guys, I've had my DSL40C for about a year now and I've never been able to get a good sound with the volume past 3. Which is weird because I always see posts about how the amp sounds better when cranked. The highest I've ever gone was 8 and it was not pleasant. Anyway I just wanted to know if anyone else has this same problem or you guys have any advise for me. Btw I just got a creamback 75 and it sounds great in the amp but only with the volume around 2-3.


----------



## rodd

Can KT 88 can be put in without modifications?
I would just keep EL34 in this amp. Get another amp I'd get something single channel with tubes.


----------



## rodd

There are 3000 likes to this forum.


----------



## IRG

Berserk said:


> Hi guys, I've had my DSL40C for about a year now and I've never been able to get a good sound with the volume past 3. Which is weird because I always see posts about how the amp sounds better when cranked. The highest I've ever gone was 8 and it was not pleasant. Anyway I just wanted to know if anyone else has this same problem or you guys have any advise for me. Btw I just got a creamback 75 and it sounds great in the amp but only with the volume around 2-3.



Where you do you have the gain set at, and is this the case for both the clean/crunch channel, and the Lead 1/2 channel? DOes seem weird, maybe your tubes are starting to go.


----------



## Micky

Yes, let us know what setting you have dialed in on the amp.
What guitar? Maybe sound clips?


----------



## Jethro Rocker

I changed my speakef out to a Celestion V30, it killed some of the harsh high end of the stock non broken in 70/80 speaker.
I found the difference in EQ between channels when when changing to Ultra to be too extreme. The Ultra had too much high end for me. So I opened it up amd snipped one leg on the C19 capacitor as per the first pages of this monstrous thread. The EQ is even between channels now, to me.
Because I have an @ss load of pre amp tubes, I changed 'em around for fun. I believe the stock tubes are JJs.
V1 is the first tube, the one closest to the input, furthest from the power tubes. It controls the input gain first stage for both channels. Often it has the biggest effect. You have to try some and listen based on what you might want to do - the TungSol tends to be a higher gain tube, JJs and some other old stock tubes can be warmer sounding, etc.
This is all personal taste, many players leave it stock. This is just my opinion based on what I wanted it to sound like and playing around for fun. Hope this helps!


----------



## nikola

Berserk said:


> Hi guys, I've had my DSL40C for about a year now and I've never been able to get a good sound with the volume past 3. Which is weird because I always see posts about how the amp sounds better when cranked. The highest I've ever gone was 8 and it was not pleasant. Anyway I just wanted to know if anyone else has this same problem or you guys have any advise for me. Btw I just got a creamback 75 and it sounds great in the amp but only with the volume around 2-3.



Could it be your amp settings? 

I have found that when the volumes are raised, certain settings ie TMB need to be tweaked. 

Moving the amp into a different room also requires that small tweak. Sometimes, even raising the amp off the floor also changes the sound quite dramatically.


----------



## ken361

You guys using the stock red channel should checkout Jims video, even with the stock speaker it has some great tone. I just tried these setting on mine loud with very good results. He just said that he runs the trb and mids a bit lower now. Im using the trb, mids at 7 bass and resonance 7 also presence at 3. The key is the tone shift button in! it takes the edge off. I hated this button at first but works great like this. I was running everything at 5 with the bass backed off some. keeping the trb mids higher you hear everything better, before my amp sounded more anemic . You may be surprised

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnsDm7bVwu0


----------



## obiwan7373

Read thru each post and don't recall seeing this so I will ask and hopefully if it has been stated, I will not hung for asking...

I stumbled upon all these post about the older DSL models having a ground issue, does this mod need to be performed or has it been remedied in the new DSL models?

Also I wanted to confirm that V3 is a cathode follower and in need of durable tube?


----------



## Igtar_Pro

Hi guys, i want to change the (horrible) seventy 80 speaker by a celestion Vintage 30, but I don´t know if put one of 16 ohm or two of 8 ohms, adding an extra box (using the 8 ohms outputs). Is there a big sound difference?

Thanks


----------



## newplayeroldguy

Igtar_Pro said:


> Hi guys, i want to change the (horrible) seventy 80 speaker by a celestion Vintage 30, but I don´t know if put one of 16 ohm or two of 8 ohms, adding an extra box (using the 8 ohms outputs). Is there a big sound difference?
> 
> Thanks



you can't run two 8 ohm speakers-that would result in a 4 ohm load. put a 16 ohm speaker in the amp and you can drive a second 16 ohm speaker as well-using the 8 ohm jacks


----------



## Berserk

I got to really tinker with the settings since nobody was home and I'm pretty sure it's not my settings. I had the volume around 5-6 and just started trying a bunch of different combinations. I was on the lead one channel since the crunch wasn't doing it for me. I think the amp is just naturally bright and my guitar (Ibanez prestige with dimarzio's) just adds more brightness. I still like the amp tho lol. I wish I knew somebody with a les Paul probably would take a lot of the harshness off


----------



## Berserk

I probably wasn't specific enough in my first post but it's not that I can't get a good tone it's that I can't get a good rhythm tone at loud volumes. I'm thinking a hard rock van Halen type of sound. When I play leads with the volume up on the red channel it sounds great. The crunch channel didn't have enough gain for me so maybe I can get an overdrive pedal and use that as my rhythm sound and have the red channel as my lead? Sorry if I'm rambling


----------



## Micky

Igtar_Pro said:


> Hi guys, i want to change the (horrible) seventy 80 speaker by a celestion Vintage 30, but I don´t know if put one of 16 ohm or two of 8 ohms, adding an extra box (using the 8 ohms outputs). Is there a big sound difference?
> 
> Thanks



Use a 16-ohm replacement.
That way you can add a 16-ohm cab easily.


----------



## Micky

Berserk said:


> I probably wasn't specific enough in my first post but it's not that I can't get a good tone it's that I can't get a good rhythm tone at loud volumes. I'm thinking a hard rock van Halen type of sound. When I play leads with the volume up on the red channel it sounds great. The crunch channel didn't have enough gain for me so maybe I can get an overdrive pedal and use that as my rhythm sound and have the red channel as my lead? Sorry if I'm rambling



So did you post all your settings? Channel? Mode? Gain level?


----------



## Berserk

Micky said:


> So did you post all your settings? Channel? Mode? Gain level?



I was on the lead one red channel, my settings were 
Volume 5
Gain 6
Treble 2
Mids 4
Bass 6
Presence 1
Resonance 3

This was the setting that seemed to work the best for me. If I raised the volume it would become too harsh. The same with the mids and treble.


----------



## Micky

Berserk said:


> I was on the lead one red channel, my settings were
> Volume 5
> Gain 6
> Treble 2
> Mids 4
> Bass 6
> Presence 1
> Resonance 3
> 
> This was the setting that seemed to work the best for me. If I raised the volume it would become too harsh. The same with the mids and treble.



For me, that would be too much gain.
Gain at 3, bass at 3 gets me close with my LP...


----------



## newplayeroldguy

Berserk said:


> I was on the lead one red channel, my settings were
> Volume 5
> Gain 6
> Treble 2
> Mids 4
> Bass 6
> Presence 1
> Resonance 3
> 
> This was the setting that seemed to work the best for me. If I raised the volume it would become too harsh. The same with the mids and treble.



you still using the stock 70/80 speaker in it?


----------



## newplayeroldguy

I agree with Micky on the gain, too- mine is at 2 on the OD channel


----------



## Berserk

Micky said:


> For me, that would be too much gain.
> Gain at 3, bass at 3 gets me close with my LP...



I just put the gain at three along with the bass. When i do this it's really hard on my ears lol. But I just noticed that there's this weird bubbling noise going on when I have the volume on my guitar rolled off. Tube problem?


----------



## Berserk

newplayeroldguy said:


> you still using the stock 70/80 speaker in it?



I have a creamback 75 in it


----------



## Igtar_Pro

newplayeroldguy said:


> you can't run two 8 ohm speakers-that would result in a 4 ohm load. put a 16 ohm speaker in the amp and you can drive a second 16 ohm speaker as well-using the 8 ohm jacks



the amp has two 8 ohm outputs and one 16ohm, you can use it or alternately the two 8 owm outputs.


----------



## Micky

Igtar_Pro said:


> the amp has two 8 ohm outputs and one 16ohm, you can use it or alternately the two 8 owm outputs.



Wrong, you can only use 2 16-ohm speakers in the 8-ohm outputs.
Read the manual...


----------



## ken361

Some new tones these recorded pretty well with the setting I posted earlier 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jw_aie4m8vo&feature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29FbJOUdEaY


----------



## Knopfler

hello!!

A question please:

I want to change my 70/80 speaker.

My question:

Vintage 30 or Creamback G12M-65 16 Ohm or G12H-75 or Cream G12 Alnico

I play pop/rock, The Black Keys, Neil Young, The Pólice, Bob Dylan , John Fogerty.

Thanks!!

Cheers.


----------



## Natedog_37

OK guys question for you

Loving my DSL really got it setup to where it cuts though my bands mix and just sound killer.

On the front I am using my Digitech GNX4 with all the amp sims, and cab sims off, just using the Effects. On the clean change I have no issues with controling Volume. I leave the volume pedal so I have a little extra to get me over the top.


No when I switch to the red channel is is on or off, No volume change so I can cut though on my solos.

I am not using the effect loop just plug into the front. Do you think adding a boost pedal would give me the extra kick I need in DB to get go over the top for solo. Just need a small kick and some reason am not getting it only on the red channel..


Was thinking of trying to use my digitech Bad monkey as a boost. thoughs? settings to try with it?


----------



## MarshallDog

Natedog_37 said:


> OK guys question for you
> 
> Loving my DSL really got it setup to where it cuts though my bands mix and just sound killer.
> 
> On the front I am using my Digitech GNX4 with all the amp sims, and cab sims off, just using the Effects. On the clean change I have no issues with controling Volume. I leave the volume pedal so I have a little extra to get me over the top.
> 
> 
> No when I switch to the red channel is is on or off, No volume change so I can cut though on my solos.
> 
> I am not using the effect loop just plug into the front. Do you think adding a boost pedal would give me the extra kick I need in DB to get go over the top for solo. Just need a small kick and some reason am not getting it only on the red channel..
> 
> 
> Was thinking of trying to use my digitech Bad monkey as a boost. thoughs? settings to try with it?



I use both a Tube Screamer or an OCD depending and both can be set very easy to add a bit of volume boost during solos without any problem.


----------



## Natedog_37

^ good to know guess I need to play with the B.M.


----------



## Bownse

Knopfler said:


> hello!!
> 
> A question please:
> 
> I want to change my 70/80 speaker.
> 
> My question:
> 
> Vintage 30 or Creamback G12M-65 16 Ohm or G12H-75 or Cream G12 Alnico
> 
> I play pop/rock, The Black Keys, Neil Young, The Pólice, Bob Dylan , John Fogerty.
> 
> Thanks!!
> 
> Cheers.



I play some Joplin, Clapton, Bowie, Black Crows, Michael Bloomfield, Lita Ford, etc. Am very please with my G12H-75 choice.

Got it dialed in to great joy earlier this week with:

L to R

10
out
2
in
3
in
1
7
7
6
4
in
6
10
10

Volumes moves as needed. Woke up things right nicely. Played a couple of times like this and found that most of my pedals become redundant. Still use the phase shifter for some Moody Blues stuff and the TC Electronics Dreamscape for more subtle stuff but the Metal Muff is now set to be a booster if needed (rarely) on some aggressive rhythms like Ford's stuff.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Berserk said:


> I probably wasn't specific enough in my first post but it's not that I can't get a good tone it's that I can't get a good rhythm tone at loud volumes. I'm thinking a hard rock van Halen type of sound. When I play leads with the volume up on the red channel it sounds great. The crunch channel didn't have enough gain for me so maybe I can get an overdrive pedal and use that as my rhythm sound and have the red channel as my lead? Sorry if I'm rambling


I use a Bad Monkey OD pedal up front because I need more distortion on the green channel. Then the gain goes down to 4 ish on the red Lead 1 channel. This is at lower volumes. Works great and you can turn the pedal off if you wish for more tones.


----------



## rodd

I am looking and I just about went to the vintage 30, reading on Celestrion web site and others have said good results. I use a fender strat ( single coils ). Im in NZ and those speakers need to be shipped overseas here.
(RE: the Knopfler message on the speakers chioces of vintage 30 creamback 12M 65 and 12H 75).


----------



## Oldpunk

Vintage 30 or Creamback? Either is a good choice, personally I think the creamback works better in the combo with it being an open back. I did try mine through a Mesa cab which has v30s and was blown away, closed back cab though.....YMMV.


----------



## mtsalmela80

Im quite confused about the whole speaker cab thing.. In theory, if I go get a 1960 4x12, and set it to 16 ohm. Can't I just plug it into the 16 ohm jack? What if I want to run the cabinet and a 4x12? Is that even possible? What would I set the cab to ohm-wise?


----------



## Micky

Plug a single 16-ohm speaker or cab into the 16-ohm output.
Plug a single 8-ohm speaker or cab into one of the 8-ohm outputs.
Plug 2 X 16-ohm speakers or cabs into the 8-ohm outputs. (8-ohm total load)

You cannot safely run an 8-ohm speaker and a 16-ohm speaker together.
You cannot safely run 2 X 8-ohm speakers or cabs together.
Besides, when you plug something into either 8-ohm output, it disconnects the 16-ohm output


----------



## Knopfler

Oldpunk said:


> Vintage 30 or Creamback? Either is a good choice, personally I think the creamback works better in the combo with it being an open back. I did try mine through a Mesa cab which has v30s and was blown away, closed back cab though.....YMMV.



------------My guitar es a Epiphone Les Paul 1959.

Then, Creamback G12M-65 or Creamback G12H-75??


----------



## ken361

Knopfler said:


> ------------My guitar es a Epiphone Les Paul 1959.
> 
> Then, Creamback G12M-65 or Creamback G12H-75??



I had a Epi 59 then went to Gibson Les Paul


----------



## Screamin Willie

Hello All,
Picked up my DSL40C about seven months ago and love it. I had been a Fender amp guy forever. I should have done this a long time ago. I could have saved myself a bunch of money on pedals, trying to make my Fender amp sound like a Marshall.

I do my own amp work and hope I can make a worthy contribution to the forum. Lots of awesome and knowledgeable people here.

When I got my amp I lifted C19 and installed a Vintage 30. It definitely got rid of the fizz but the Red 1 channel turned very dark and the lows were quite muddy with my PRS SE Soapbar. I figured I would give it a chance and left it that way for seven months. I just changed out the Vintage 30 for a G12M-65 Creamback. Oh yeah, that works for me. The tone balance between the clean and red channel is now very well balanced now. And no more mud. Anyway, nothing new or earth shattering, just an observation.

Yes, I've read every single page and post in this thread.  Ton's of good stuff.

Rock on, brothers and sisters,
Willie


----------



## mtsalmela80

Is there any trick to removing the chassis? The transformer on one side is butting up against the inner trim piece, I guess I could loosen the transformer screws, and slide it as it has elongated screw holes, but was wondering if there is an easier way.

Thanks


----------



## Micky

mtsalmela80 said:


> Is there any trick to removing the chassis? The transformer on one side is butting up against the inner trim piece, I guess I could loosen the transformer screws, and slide it as it has elongated screw holes, but was wondering if there is an easier way.
> 
> Thanks



It should wiggle out easily.
Has the transformer been replaced?

You can try turning it upside down (handle down) and sliding it out that way...

Once you get it, it becomes much easier after that...


----------



## mtsalmela80

This is what is going on.it's hitting that wood on the side. My untrained eye aside, I can't see any indication that it was replaced.


----------



## Screamin Willie

mtsalmela80 said:


> This is what is going on.it's hitting that wood on the side. My untrained eye aside, I can't see any indication that it was replaced.



Like others have mentioned, it is a bit tight but should come out with a little wiggle. Laying the amp face down may help.

Willie


----------



## mtsalmela80

I got it out. Just forced it a bit, the cab stretched but nothing broke. C19 mod complete! Amp is back together and working!

Thanks for the replies.


----------



## Knopfler

Screamin Willie said:


> Hello All,
> When I got my amp I lifted C19 and installed a Vintage 30. It definitely got rid of the fizz but the Red 1 channel turned very dark and the lows were quite muddy with my PRS SE Soapbar. I figured I would give it a chance and left it that way for seven months. I just changed out the Vintage 30 for a G12M-65 Creamback. Oh yeah, that works for me. The tone balance between the clean and red channel is now very well balanced now. And no more mud. Anyway, nothing new or earth shattering, just an observation.
> 
> Yes, I've read every single page and post in this thread.  Ton's of good stuff.
> 
> 
> ------------Ok, Thank you, so much! I'll think about it.
> 
> Celestion G12M-65 Creamback 16 Ohm - Thomann España
> 
> 97dB
> 
> Celestion G12H-75 Creamback 16 Ohm - Thomann España
> 
> 100dB
> 
> G12H 75 have more power
> 
> A link (in Spanish, sorry) it's interesting:
> 
> http://media.djmania.es/guias/celestion.pdf
> 
> Cheers


----------



## Natedog_37

Just bought a TC Electronic Spark Booster thinking this should work for my boost needs and a little more.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

If you throw it in the loop as a volume boost. Not sure how it'd work up front, might be great.


----------



## Knopfler

Oldpunk said:


> Vintage 30 or Creamback? Either is a good choice, personally I think the creamback works better in the combo with it being an open back. I did try mine through a Mesa cab which has v30s and was blown away, closed back cab though.....YMMV.


 


Are all celestion speakers now made in China or UK?

I'm Spanish , I 'll buy to Thomann.., I think,


----------



## Natedog_37

Jethro Rocker said:


> If you throw it in the loop as a volume boost. Not sure how it'd work up front, might be great.



That is what I was thinking. I seem a lot of reviews some run it right into the front and some in the loop. It was on sale and for the tone I was hearing online and what it can do just couldn't pass it up.


----------



## ken361

I tried a good mogami cable and a old crap cable in the loop, it was horrible for killing the tone. Best bet using two3 feet cables would be best.


----------



## Rahlstin

Not all Celestions. the G12M65CB's I bought are made in UK. The G12M25's I had were Chinese mfg. But they sounded good. Not as good as the creamback 65's but I don't know if location has anything to do with that.


----------



## Bownse

ken361 said:


> I tried a good mogami cable and a old crap cable in the loop, it was horrible for killing the tone. Best bet using two3 feet cables would be best.




Which "it" killed the tone?


----------



## ken361

Bownse said:


> Which "it" killed the tone?



cheap cable


----------



## Bownse

Thx

Recommended mfgr for "good" ones?


----------



## ken361

Bownse said:


> Thx
> 
> Recommended mfgr for "good" ones?



I use mogami , not using any pedals at the moment except if I was use a boost pedal and I still find when its off I loose some tone


----------



## Micky

Mogami or Belden cable for me...


----------



## HAmmer

mtsalmela80 said:


> Im quite confused about the whole speaker cab thing.. In theory, if I go get a 1960 4x12, and set it to 16 ohm. Can't I just plug it into the 16 ohm jack? What if I want to run the cabinet and a 4x12? Is that even possible? What would I set the cab to ohm-wise?


Use your 16ohm jack for mono or use both 8ohm for stereo
On a 1960 cab, thats what i used to do when i had my dsl


----------



## Natedog_37

For cables I use Monster cables for everything. Never had a issue so far.


----------



## Bownse

I've been into audio and data for long enough that I'm not swayed by the opium dreams of Monster's PR machine.


----------



## Micky

It is not a matter of IF you will need Monster's lifetime warranty...
It is a matter of WHEN you will need it.


----------



## ken361

Mogami has a lifetime also and I did use it once when a wire broke in the jack, they replaced it and Mogami improved the jacks at that time too


----------



## MarshallDog

Had two Mogami cables, I damaged both, took them to GC and walked out with two new ones and that was two months ago...no issue


----------



## ken361

have a nasty cracking static problem I take it off stand by and tap the top of the amp and I get a loud static sound. im puzzled I check all preamp tubes and cleaned the pins. Before this worked on my new twin but this time no dice prb have to take it in


----------



## ken361

Amp still plays and that if I dont start tapping around it, going to still bring it over my girl friends condo and turn up and see how it goes if problems persist I will drop it off. I turned up yesterday with no issues so I wonder if something loose inside
Still wonder if its one of the preamp tubes because the same thing happened with the twin


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Try a known good spare tube. Is that what you mean by checked the tubes? Swap it out one at a time. I had that very issue and it was PI tube.


----------



## ken361

I did change it 2 weeks ago and I tried the old one and still issues going to check again later


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Check em all.


----------



## ken361

I did one at a time and still the same thing, but I most of these I had for years and still going strong but I still think its one of the tubes.


----------



## ken361

Going to drop a new tungsol in the v1 and put the old PI in and rock it and see if there's any issues. One of the tubes did sound off a little microphonic ring and I just would tap the amp to quiet it so it may be a underlying issue


----------



## ken361

Ok so far so good! dropped a brand new Tungsol in the v1 and the old PI in, there was a little static and keep jamming. Then I tapped the top of the amp with no issues then I put the other PI tube I was using and no problems. Then I tried the old Tungsol in the v2 and there was some hum and the tube seem worn a bit and lower gain so I think that was the bad one! Glad Marshall didn't let me down so far at least I had a lot of mileage on my tubes.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Path of least resistance. Start with tubes! I just had a TungSol die in my 6101 in last gain stage position. I've now had 3 Tungs go in the last year or so..


----------



## ken361

I started buying tubes 8 years ago and collected a bunch 
over the years and always use my favorite ones in my new amps and play like 2 hours a day


----------



## Micky

It's a microphonic tube.
Label it or throw it away so you don't end up using it again.


----------



## MarshallDog

ken361 said:


> Ok so far so good! dropped a brand new Tungsol in the v1 and the old PI in, there was a little static and keep jamming. Then I tapped the top of the amp with no issues then I put the other PI tube I was using and no problems. Then I tried the old Tungsol in the v2 and there was some hum and the tube seem worn a bit and lower gain so I think that was the bad one! Glad Marshall didn't let me down so far at least I had a lot of mileage on my tubes.



Bad pre amp tube most likely V1. I had two of them go in the last 6 months on my Jubilee, hum at at higher volumes and or gain levels. Luckily, i buy all my tubes from the tube store nod they are sending me two new ones at no charge


----------



## ricky711

After having clipped C19 and not liking it, installing a 100pf is the ticket! Axeplyr is right on. That and a V-type speaker have transformed the amp. i tried the Creamback and it really didn't blow me away as I thought it would. An older English Greenback sounded way better but it's only 25 watts. I'm checking out a Weber Legacy next week.


----------



## ken361

ricky711 said:


> After having clipped C19 and not liking it, installing a 100pf is the ticket! Axeplyr is right on. That and a V-type speaker have transformed the amp. i tried the Creamback and it really didn't blow me away as I thought it would. An older English Greenback sounded way better but it's only 25 watts. I'm checking out a Weber Legacy next week.



One guy on here liked the V type the best also


----------



## wallinbb

I need your advice. I love my Les Paul Traditional through my DSL40c with Creamback. I also love it through my external cab (a V30 in a Dr Z 1x12). Both setups sound amazing!

My issue: I think the bass pot on my DSL40c may be bad. From 0 to 3 it is almost nonexistent, but when slightly past 3 the bass jumps up a ton and gets super flubby, almost unusable.

Does anyone else have this issue?

If so, did you find a remedy?

Thanks in advance for your help!


----------



## ken361

wallinbb said:


> I need your advice. I love my Les Paul Traditional through my DSL40c with Creamback. I also love it through my external cab (a V30 in a Dr Z 1x12). Both setups sound amazing!
> 
> My issue: I think the bass pot on my DSL40c may be bad. From 0 to 3 it is almost nonexistent, but when slightly past 3 the bass jumps up a ton and gets super flubby, almost unusable.
> 
> Does anyone else have this issue?
> 
> If so, did you find a remedy?
> 
> Thanks in advance for your help!



No issues here


----------



## obiwan7373

ricky711 said:


> After having clipped C19 and not liking it, installing a 100pf is the ticket! Axeplyr is right on. That and a V-type speaker have transformed the amp. i tried the Creamback and it really didn't blow me away as I thought it would. An older English Greenback sounded way better but it's only 25 watts. I'm checking out a Weber Legacy next week.



I use the Weber Legacy speakers. Like them a lot, definitely give them a listen.


----------



## ken361

Sorry I made a mistake about cables in the loop, I was trying a Crunchy frog pedal for some reason in the loop to see how it sounds. It just dawned on me only modulation belong there. Any ways I picked up a really good delay for cheap on a trade, its a Caline Time Space Delay, it works really good in the loop for leads and VH type stuff. These pedals are like 23.00 and up on Amazon and sound good and natural and least at low playing volumes. I have to try it loud to see if it interferes with my distortion channel. I had a boss years ago with the JVM and didnt like it that much, DSL has a good loops it seems like.


----------



## ken361

http://https://youtu.be/_4VZTC79JNshttps://youtu.be/_4VZTC79JNs

Here's the delay excuse the sloppy playing


----------



## mtsalmela80

I finally got my dsl40c running at my church and it sounds beautiful. I noticed it was running wan. Like the back of the amp warms up quite a bit.that is normal right? I know tubes are scolding got just wanted to make sure its normal for it to warm up. The power tubes are stock and the label reads they are biased at 40mv.


----------



## MarshallDog

mtsalmela80 said:


> I finally got my dsl40c running at my church and it sounds beautiful. I noticed it was running wan. Like the back of the amp warms up quite a bit.that is normal right? I know tubes are scolding got just wanted to make sure its normal for it to warm up. The power tubes are stock and the label reads they are biased at 40mv.



Getting warm is normal for tube amps...


----------



## Bownse

I cut off the heat to my practice room in the winter. If I close to the door as a courtesy to others in the house, I may be breaking a sweat by the end of the session. Leaving the room it's noticeably warmer than the rest of the house (with heat).


----------



## ken361

The Caline delay sounds excellent with DSL cranked yesterday wow! On the red 1


----------



## tattymatt

Just purchased my very first Marshall (DSL40c). Absolutely love this amp! All that said, I am a noob to this site and Marshall amps. I am curious to know what others have used as far as pedals are concerned to help compliment this amp? I hope this is the right spot by the way.


----------



## Micky

Welcome!

Many new members put a post in the Introduce Yourself section where they can tell us all a little about themselves, such as the music they play etc.

The 40c takes all pedals equally well, and I am sure if you tell us a little about yourself others will chime in with some recommendations.


----------



## Igtar_Pro

Hi, I changed the seventy 80 speaker. It was replaced by a celstion vintage 30:
















The sound gets a lot better. 

I`m thinking in replace the first preamp tube by a groove 12ax7, has someone tried it?


----------



## ricky711

Speaker swap is probably the first and best thing that can be done with this amp. I've tried Greenbacks, Creamback, V-type, Eminence, now waiting on a Weber Legacy. All have been a big improvement. Marshall used the 70/80 to keep costs down. Vox uses it in the AC15VR for the same reason. I didn't have a V30 to try,but lots of people seem to like it. I did some preamp tube swapping but went back to the stock tubes. They have good gain and low microphonics.


----------



## Knopfler

ricky711 said:


> Speaker swap is probably the first and best thing that can be done with this amp. I've tried Greenbacks, Creamback, V-type, Eminence, now waiting on a Weber Legacy. All have been a big improvement. Marshall used the 70/80 to keep costs down. Vox uses it in the AC15VR for the same reason. I didn't have a V30 to try,but lots of people seem to like it. I did some preamp tube swapping but went back to the stock tubes. They have good gain and low microphonics.




Which of them is your favorite speaker?


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Igtar_Pro said:


> The sound gets a lot better.
> 
> I`m thinking in replace the first preamp tube by a groove 12ax7, has someone tried it?



I think the current GT tubes are made by JJs which are the stock tubes in your unit. Should be no difference tonally. Try a Tung Sol or Chinese (Ruby etc) and see depending what you're after.


----------



## jep1210

So, I've had my DSL for a little more than a month or so and have been going through this extensive thread ever since. I finally made it to page 100 today. 

I haven't been terribly happy with the tone I've been getting. I've found it to be a lot like what others are reporting, too fizzy, too much highs ect. I got my bass pegged and treble around 1 0r 2 on the dial. My Mids live around 4-5, and it's still a bit too bright. The fizz doesn't bother me so much as I run through a Bass ME-70 for effects (donning fire suit in 5...4...3...), not so much for modeling, that kind of defeats my purpose for getting a tube amp. The band I'm in plays a lot of different types of music and I like the flexbility of having different sounds at my disposal (patches) though it is a bit of a nightmare to maintain...but I digest....

I've learned a ton about tube amps from this awesome thread and have been contemplating trying some of the many different mods presented here. I finally made the descison to try new tubes. Based on some of the suggests posted here I ordered a set of Rubys, 12AX7AC7 HG+ for V1 and 12AX7AC5 HG+ for V2. I'm hoping it mellows out the treble some and fatten up my tone, and with any luck it'll delay the clean channel "breaking up" (more headroom?) on the Classic Channel. I seem to remember someone saying that was _the_ combo to go with. I probably have it all wrong....all the info in this thread does have my head spinning....but at the very least I'll have a spare set of tubes right?

At some point I will be trying a speaker swap too. Which one though, V-Type, Creamback, Vintage 30?  Decisions decisions.


----------



## MarshallDog

So, tonight I am play my DSL 40C, hitting it hard and the volume goes to zero, really, Im like WTF! So I try a few basic things (plug straight in, power down the amp, tap on the tubes, etc) and nothing. So I pull off the back cover and start changing out the pre's. It turns out a rather new JJ 12ax7 MG in V1 died. Never had this happen befor, usually they go miro? 

Anyway, I put a Jan-GE in V2 and the JJ ecco3s long plate in a all,the other slots and I am loving the tone, makes the gain on Ultra 1 usable and I can actually increase the treble and presence settings a bit. This is one bright amp!


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Lately I've had 2 Tung Sols go that way on me. Suddenly little volume, thin. Changed out tube, it was fine. Just got a new Peavey 6505 mini head and 1 JJ EL84 was crapped. It sounded ok but yhe LED indicator lit up indicateing a problem. Changed it, things are fine.


----------



## Igtar_Pro

jep1210 said:


> So, I've had my DSL for a little more than a month or so and have been going through this extensive thread ever since. I finally made it to page 100 today.
> 
> I haven't been terribly happy with the tone I've been getting. I've found it to be a lot like what others are reporting, too fizzy, too much highs ect. I got my bass pegged and treble around 1 0r 2 on the dial. My Mids live around 4-5, and it's still a bit too bright. The fizz doesn't bother me so much as I run through a Bass ME-70 for effects (donning fire suit in 5...4...3...), not so much for modeling, that kind of defeats my purpose for getting a tube amp. The band I'm in plays a lot of different types of music and I like the flexbility of having different sounds at my disposal (patches) though it is a bit of a nightmare to maintain...but I digest....
> 
> I've learned a ton about tube amps from this awesome thread and have been contemplating trying some of the many different mods presented here. I finally made the descison to try new tubes. Based on some of the suggests posted here I ordered a set of Rubys, 12AX7AC7 HG+ for V1 and 12AX7AC5 HG+ for V2. I'm hoping it mellows out the treble some and fatten up my tone, and with any luck it'll delay the clean channel "breaking up" (more headroom?) on the Classic Channel. I seem to remember someone saying that was _the_ combo to go with. I probably have it all wrong....all the info in this thread does have my head spinning....but at the very least I'll have a spare set of tubes right?
> 
> At some point I will be trying a speaker swap too. Which one though, V-Type, Creamback, Vintage 30?  Decisions decisions.




Putting a Celestion V30 the amp changes completely, you can use now the treble knob and it won´t sound like stepping over a bag with broken glasses. The lead channel sounds awesome, not fuzzed, even at low volumes. the presence knob has more influence in the tone than before (the amp tone is more sensitive to this knob with the V30 speaker).
I have a Cry baby Gcb 95, with the v30 speaker i can use it in all of its range without higher issues. with the seventy 80 speaker the last part of the wah travel sounded really bad.


----------



## MarshallDog

jep1210 said:


> So, I've had my DSL for a little more than a month or so and have been going through this extensive thread ever since. I finally made it to page 100 today.
> 
> I haven't been terribly happy with the tone I've been getting. I've found it to be a lot like what others are reporting, too fizzy, too much highs ect. I got my bass pegged and treble around 1 0r 2 on the dial. My Mids live around 4-5, and it's still a bit too bright. The fizz doesn't bother me so much as I run through a Bass ME-70 for effects (donning fire suit in 5...4...3...), not so much for modeling, that kind of defeats my purpose for getting a tube amp. The band I'm in plays a lot of different types of music and I like the flexbility of having different sounds at my disposal (patches) though it is a bit of a nightmare to maintain...but I digest....
> 
> I've learned a ton about tube amps from this awesome thread and have been contemplating trying some of the many different mods presented here. I finally made the descison to try new tubes. Based on some of the suggests posted here I ordered a set of Rubys, 12AX7AC7 HG+ for V1 and 12AX7AC5 HG+ for V2. I'm hoping it mellows out the treble some and fatten up my tone, and with any luck it'll delay the clean channel "breaking up" (more headroom?) on the Classic Channel. I seem to remember someone saying that was _the_ combo to go with. I probably have it all wrong....all the info in this thread does have my head spinning....but at the very least I'll have a spare set of tubes right?
> 
> At some point I will be trying a speaker swap too. Which one though, V-Type, Creamback, Vintage 30?  Decisions decisions.



My opinion and many others including Sweetwater, the Creamback. Also, snip out C4 and C19, the brite caps for both channels. I have and love it and with the treble and presence up a bit, it can still be brite if you want it to be and I play LPS's. Those caps take away the fizz IMO.


----------



## jep1210

Igtar_Pro said:


> Putting a Celestion V30 the amp changes completely, you can use now the treble knob and it won´t sound like stepping over a bag with broken glasses.



HAHAHA  "stepping over broken glasses" I like that...very accurate how it sounds.



MarshallDog said:


> My opinion and many others including Sweetwater, the Creamback. Also, snip out C4 and C19, the brite caps for both channels. I have and love it and with the treble and presence up a bit, it can still be brite if you want it to be and I play LPS's. Those caps take away the fizz IMO.



That was MY thinking too if Sweetwater chose the Creamback it's probably the way to go. I've been leaning toward the CB but I keep hearing good things about others V-Type, Vintage 30 ect. increasing my indecision. I live mostly in the Classic channel so I just may try clipping C4.

*EDIT* Oh yeah, almost forgot to mention, my Rubys came yesterday from Doug's, I was surprised since I just ordered them the day before. I was ALSO surprised at how small they are, about an inch tall. I've seen the stock ones in the back of the amp and assumed they went deeper into the amp's innards. I'll try and make a before and after video for comparison.


----------



## ken361

The crunch channel is kind of warm IMO


----------



## Micky

All the speakers mentioned are great replacements.
Many others include the 12" from Eminence, including the Man-O-War, Private Jack, Swamp Thang, Texas Heat and many others.
WGS has a great selection as well...


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

Mine sports a WGS Retro 30. Night and day difference.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Mine is V30 with a C19 snip job. I can run treble to the 6 range and mids higher if need be and it's not ice pick in the forehead. And here comes the ice pick in the forehead!!


----------



## jep1210

Micky said:


> All the speakers mentioned are great replacements.
> Many others include the 12" from Eminence, including the Man-O-War, Private Jack, Swamp Thang, Texas Heat and many others.
> WGS has a great selection as well...



Micky, I always feel you're screaming your responses based on your avatar  Maybe you are I don't know


----------



## Micky

jep1210 said:


> Micky, I always feel you're screaming your responses based on your avatar  Maybe you are I don't know



HAHA! If I am hollering, it will be in ALL CAPS...

The point of this huge thread is for people to relate THEIR experiences.
Then, make up YOUR own mind about what you need to do.

Whether it is settings, possibly pedals or even modifications, things like tone and how things sound is very subjective. No one can make up you mind for you...


----------



## ricky711

The Legacy is the one!


----------



## DaveG1963

ken361 said:


> have a nasty cracking static problem I take it off stand by and tap the top of the amp and I get a loud static sound. im puzzled I check all preamp tubes and cleaned the pins. Before this worked on my new twin but this time no dice prb have to take it in



Ken361 I have been having an intermittent pop from time to time, with a cracking static problem. Then last night I was getting a nasty cracking static pop when I take her off of Stand-By, and while playing I started getting this high pitch squealing almost microphonic type sound from time to time. Well I searched the forum/this thread for causes, and I am by no means educated when it comes to tube amps, so this morning I turn her on to heat her up and after few minutes off of Stand-By and again same nasty cracking pop! So, I tap the top of the amp and sure enough I get a nasty static pop, more so it seems in one location than others. So...for you and anyone else, what should my process be to do first? Check for loose tubes? I did this and they are all secure. Pull tubes and clean pins, check for?? Or am I looking at swapping out for a new tube set?  So if you or Micky, or anyone can help me out I'd sure appreciate it. If it is something I can do easily and safely I am all for it. Have had the amp now for about a year, bought it new from Sweetwater with the Creamback Celestion, and other than one time transporting to my cousins house, it has remained in my house. I have read about halfway to 75% through this thread over the last year, search isn't giving me the answers I need. If new tubes are the key no problem, where is best place to get them and what type of tubes to replace original set. Thanks and appreciate all the help and replies!


----------



## Micky

DaveG1963 said:


> So if you or Micky, or anyone can help me out I'd sure appreciate it. If it is something I can do easily and safely I am all for it. Have had the amp now for about a year, bought it new from Sweetwater with the Creamback Celestion, and other than one time transporting to my cousins house, it has remained in my house. I have read about halfway to 75% through this thread over the last year, search isn't giving me the answers I need. If new tubes are the key no problem, where is best place to get them and what type of tubes to replace original set. Thanks and appreciate all the help and replies!



This does sound like a tube problem, probably a microphonic preamp tube.

As stated previously or in other threads, a microphonic tube is one that is sensitive to vibration or outside stimulus. It can sometimes cause noises (like you have described) as well as feedback, squealing and other strange problems.

Easiest thing to do is to take a known good spare, and swap it into each preamp position one-at-a-time to see where it makes the most difference. You can also test for a microphonic tube by tapping on it with a chopstick with the amp on and volume up a bit. Tap and listen for noises as you tap, if it does it, than that tube is suspect.

12AX7 tubes are fairly inexpensive, really good ones can be had for under $20 each. There are numerous reputable dealers, TubeDepot (.com) and Antique Electronics Supply (tubesandmore.com) are a couple I have dealt with in the past with good results. There are MANY more.

The Ruby 12AX7-C5 is about $14 and is a very good Current Production (CP) tube. I also like the TAD 7025-WA (12AX7 equivalent) which is an excellent lo-noise tube suitable for the V1 position in the DSL.


----------



## DaveG1963

Micky said:


> This does sound like a tube problem, probably a microphonic preamp tube.
> 
> As stated previously or in other threads, a microphonic tube is one that is sensitive to vibration or outside stimulus. It can sometimes cause noises (like you have described) as well as feedback, squealing and other strange problems.
> 
> Easiest thing to do is to take a known good spare, and swap it into each preamp position one-at-a-time to see where it makes the most difference. You can also test for a microphonic tube by tapping on it with a chopstick with the amp on and volume up a bit. Tap and listen for noises as you tap, if it does it, than that tube is suspect.
> 
> 12AX7 tubes are fairly inexpensive, really good ones can be had for under $20 each. There are numerous reputable dealers, TubeDepot (.com) and Antique Electronics Supply (tubesandmore.com) are a couple I have dealt with in the past with good results. There are MANY more.
> 
> The Ruby 12AX7-C5 is about $14 and is a very good Current Production (CP) tube. I also like the TAD 7025-WA (12AX7 equivalent) which is an excellent lo-noise tube suitable for the V1 position in the DSL.



Thanks Micky I knew I would get a quick response from you! I am gonna order a new set and replace what I need that way I have extra's on hand. Knew this day would be here sooner or later but never happens at a good time either. Thanks!


----------



## ken361

It was mainly the V1 Tungsol and I replaced it with a new one, I still have a little microphonic noise when I tap on top of the amp but thats not really a problem. My tube stash is running low on the good tubes I prefer until I get working again I have to use what I have and dont want to use the stock tubes!


----------



## DaveG1963

Appreciate the reply Ken! One final question since I am a total newb on anything tubes! 

I figure I might as well go for the gusto. I will find out which tubes are bad and discard them and hang onto the others just in case I need one until I can get others down the road. So my question IS, if I am replacing all 4 pre-amp tubes do I use the same for all four positions? Stock they are all the same, so I assume install all the same type? Also, is it worth getting a matched set of tubes? Should I look at replacing the Power tubes as well, and if so with what?

Reading up on the Ruby 12AX7AC5's sound like a very good choice Micky to me.


----------



## ken361

you can use diff brands and dont need to be matched on the preamp tubes


----------



## DaveG1963

ken361 said:


> you can use diff brands and dont need to be matched on the preamp tubes




Great i appreciate it!


----------



## PtTimeRckr

DaveG1963 said:


> Great i appreciate it!



If you haven't checked it out, you should scan this thread:

http://www.marshallforum.com/showthread.php?t=27574

It gives a pretty good overview of the preamp tube slots and what they do. It might help in selecting your replacements.

Total noob, here, as well. So just trying to point out info I've found that seemed helpful. Micky and the others always have great advice, of course.


----------



## DaveG1963

PtTimeRckr said:


> If you haven't checked it out, you should scan this thread:
> 
> http://www.marshallforum.com/showthread.php?t=27574
> 
> It gives a pretty good overview of the preamp tube slots and what they do. It might help in selecting your replacements.
> 
> Total noob, here, as well. So just trying to point out info I've found that seemed helpful. Micky and the others always have great advice, of course.



Absolutely! Just briefly looked it over and lots of good info here! Thanks!


----------



## ken361

I noticed I have a little static on the clean channel when im playing loud I cant really hear it on the crunch or red channel but the cleans are more dominant. I switched each preamp tube with another one by one so im wondering if its the power tubes finally starting to go? almost a year old and I play it loud on the weekends hmmm. Going to do some more preamp rolling this weekend


----------



## Micky

ken361 said:


> I noticed I have a little static on the clean channel when im playing loud I cant really hear it on the crunch or red channel but the cleans are more dominant. I switched each preamp tube with another one by one so im wondering if its the power tubes finally starting to go? almost a year old and I play it loud on the weekends hmmm. Going to do some more preamp rolling this weekend



Could also be your guitar or any pedals you have plugged into the front of the amp. Check for microphonic tubes with nothing plugged in at all and the volume up...


----------



## ken361

I did just starting using a delay in the loop 3 weeks ago I will try it unplugged Saturday


----------



## ken361

I changed all the preamps and played straight it and still does it, if I tap on the amp hard it makes that noise were the power tubes are. I think the power tubes maybe going! I could put a new set in and see if it solves the problem. I know everyone going to say rebias it but what if it sounds the same and no red plating I might be able to get away with it? dont really have the money to blow now not working and all. If theres still a issue I could drop it off at the shop.


----------



## ken361

Hope its not a solder joint going to re spray with contact cleaner again


----------



## ken361

well it was the power tubes! put a new matched set of EH it just like it was before the issue no bias needed. Its not running any hotter then before and sounds the same and feel so I will keep an eye on it though. The new tubes are actually more narrow then the stock ones.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

DaveG1963 said:


> Appreciate the reply Ken! One final question since I am a total newb on anything tubes!
> 
> I figure I might as well go for the gusto. I will find out which tubes are bad and discard them and hang onto the others just in case I need one until I can get others down the road. So my question IS, if I am replacing all 4 pre-amp tubes do I use the same for all four positions? Stock they are all the same, so I assume install all the same type? Also, is it worth getting a matched set of tubes? Should I look at replacing the Power tubes as well, and if so with what?
> 
> Reading up on the Ruby 12AX7AC5's sound like a very good choice Micky to me.



Also, although it is very good to have spare tubes on hand, try some of the tips mentioned previously to possibly determine if it is indeed a micro tube.
With no cable plugged in, turn the amp up and rap on the top of it to see if this creates a sort of feedback or static or some sort of sound. You can gently tap on the pre tubes, the smaller ones, and see if it makes a fairly loud ping in the speaker. These are signs of likely microphonic tubes. The static can be as well. Good to determine this before getiing 4 new ones thinking it will solve the issue for sure. See ken361s issue with power tubes!!


----------



## ken361

The screw finally stripped on the back of the amp, I try to not over tighten but theres a 1 inch crack in the bracing.Fill the hole then rescrew when dried?


----------



## Jethro Rocker

I would say. Don't know why that wouldn't work.


----------



## Micky

I drilled mine out and put t-nuts in the combo case, and now use machine screws for the back.

I never have to worry about any of that ever again.

It only makes sense if you remove/replace the back a lot...


----------



## Oldpunk

ken361 said:


> The screw finally stripped on the back of the amp, I try to not over tighten but theres a 1 inch crack in the bracing.Fill the hole then rescrew when dried?



Fill and _clamp_.


...then think about doing what Micky did. Great mod.


----------



## cavedog69

And there he was: reigning supreme at number two.


----------



## OU812

The amps sound good, but the cab is complete ****! Mine is stripped out on the back and the baffle is kind of hosed.


----------



## PtTimeRckr

Micky said:


> I drilled mine out and put t-nuts in the combo case, and now use machine screws for the back.
> 
> I never have to worry about any of that ever again.
> 
> It only makes sense if you remove/replace the back a lot...



Micky's a freakin' genius.

:minions:


----------



## DaveG1963

Well I swapped all four preamp tubes and guess what still same loud popping and static noise, can tap on the top of the amp and pop pop pop! So where do I go now besides taking to a place that does repairs?


----------



## ken361

DaveG1963 said:


> Well I swapped all four preamp tubes and guess what still same loud popping and static noise, can tap on the top of the amp and pop pop pop! So where do I go now besides taking to a place that does repairs?



Prb the power tubes like mine did! get some EH tubes and drop them in and see if goes away. I didnt rebias and still sounds great! didnt change at all or I got lucky!


----------



## DaveG1963

ken361 said:


> Prb the power tubes like mine did! get some EH tubes and drop them in and see if goes away. I didnt rebias and still sounds great! didnt change at all or I got lucky!



I had a feeling you were gonna say power tubes


----------



## ken361

In 8 years I only had the static prob once was a new 68 custom twin, I had my older preamp tubes in and one day I had that static noise. I sprayed the tube pins and worked them in a few times and it helped. There was some ping noise when I tapped the top but it still worked, doubt if it was the power tubes at the time. Since your still hearing that noise its prb the power tubes. See I put all the stock pre's back in I wasnt using any of those since I had the amp so used those to test if there was a problem. 
It could still be the preamp tubes possibly if you had a another set to try.


----------



## ken361

I saw some dust in the bottom of the tube, wonder if that caused the static hitting the plates


----------



## Woundtight

Micky said:


> I drilled mine out and put t-nuts in the combo case, and now use machine screws for the back.
> 
> I never have to worry about any of that ever again.
> 
> It only makes sense if you remove/replace the back a lot...



Great idea! Do you have any pics, size screws? #8-32?


----------



## Micky

It is in this thread somewhere.
Check the index.
Photos too I think...


----------



## ken361

I stuck a toothpick down the screw hole and broke in off, the screw tightened just right maybe it was a fluke that it stripped because I did screw that one last and I never had a problem being stripped, maybe wasn't that bad who knows? will try Micky idea when I need it and hope I don't have to tube roll for a while.


----------



## MarshallDog

ken361 said:


> I stuck a toothpick down the screw hole and broke in off, the screw tightened just right maybe it was a fluke that it stripped because I did screw that one last and I never had a problem being stripped, maybe wasn't that bad who knows? will try Micky idea when I need it and hope I don't have to tube roll for a while.



I do this trick all the time. Next time add some Elmers glue, works great and it you dont over tigthen the screws you will be fine.


----------



## Micky

Since I put t-nuts and use machine screws in my 40c I hardly ever take the back off...

Wish I could find the Index page I created...


----------



## ken361

MarshallDog said:


> I do this trick all the time. Next time add some Elmers glue, works great and it you dont over tigthen the screws you will be fine.



Cool!


----------



## Oldpunk

If you dont 'reset' a crack with some titebond or similar its just going to grow. Inserting a dowel (toothpick) without glue is just a temporary fix and will actually make it worse down the road expanding the crack.


----------



## Micky

Oldpunk said:


> If you dont 'reset' a crack with some titebond or similar its just going to grow. Inserting a dowel (toothpick) without glue is just a temporary fix and will actually make it worse down the road expanding the crack.



Yup. You gotta inject some glue into the crack, then clamp it tight.


----------



## ken361

Will do and thanks will try elmers tonight


----------



## ken361

My GF has the glue now I have a question. Should I seal the crack first then clamp it over night and then put glue on the toothpick put the back on and screw it in?


----------



## Screamin Willie

Question about the effects loop.

Does anyone find the effects loop weak. I have a Carbon Copy and a Deluxe Memory Man which are way stronger effects when run into the front of the amp. The "Send" signal from the effects loop isn't even strong enough to light the Overload lamp on the DMM.

I don't remember it being this way when I got the amp, about 7 months ago. I wonder if something in the loop went south.

Willie


----------



## ken361

The delay would be more dominant running up front but works better in the loop, love mine works great!! light shouldnt be duller


----------



## Oldpunk

ken361 said:


> My GF has the glue now I have a question. Should I seal the crack first then clamp it over night and then put glue on the toothpick put the back on and screw it in?



Elmers isnt the bet choice IMO, a wood glue would be best ie:titebond. 3 bucks for a bottle at Home Depot.

Inject some glue, clamp, let dry over night. Then glue the toothpick in (tip:cut the pointed end off so you have a completely sealed hole so it wont splinter down in the cavity when you rescrew it). Let that dry too, then use a pointed reamer or drill a small pilot hole. Rescrew....good to go.


----------



## ken361

Oldpunk said:


> Elmers isnt the bet choice IMO, a wood glue would be best ie:titebond. 3 bucks for a bottle at Home Depot.
> 
> Inject some glue, clamp, let dry over night. Then glue the toothpick in (tip:cut the pointed end off so you have a completely sealed hole so it wont splinter down in the cavity when you rescrew it). Let that dry too, then use a pointed reamer or drill a small pilot hole. Rescrew....good to go.



Thanks sir!


----------



## ken361

you guys get your multi meter at Home Depot by any chance? something not too pricey that works well for the job. According to that video on the tube you should check the plate voltage first on the power tubes do ya both or just one? just getting some info first.


----------



## Oldpunk

ken361 said:


> Thanks sir!



No problemo. Happy I could help.


----------



## Micky

ken361 said:


> you guys get your multi meter at Home Depot by any chance? something not too pricey that works well for the job. According to that video on the tube you should check the plate voltage first on the power tubes do ya both or just one? just getting some info first.



Yes, I have one from there.
Works pretty good.

I keep it in my toolbox, it is really good for a beater...

First page of this thread has bias info...


----------



## ken361

Micky said:


> Yes, I have one from there.
> Works pretty good.
> 
> I keep it in my toolbox, it is really good for a beater...
> 
> First page of this thread has bias info...



keep it set at 200MV for plate voltage and for biasing?


----------



## Micky

600VDC for B+ voltage, 200mv for bias...


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Not for plate voltage. It will be in the area of 450V.
Oops. Sorry Micky. You got there first. Missed it by that much....


----------



## ken361

Sorry I meant on the dial on the meter set it to 200 , I dont have one yet im just looking at the video on you tube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jj3hSEjySxg


----------



## Micky

Sorry. I don't click on links.
If it is not embedded, I am not gonna watch.

I know how to bias, I know how to use a meter.

Set it to the highest DC Voltage to measure B+, set it to 200mv to beasure bias off the test points.


----------



## ken361

Thanks


----------



## ken361

Would this meter work fine? set it too 600 to check plate voltage and 200 black for bias?
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Gardner-...-Manual-Digital-Multimeter-GDT-3190/202867883


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Yep should work fine.
All the meter needs to do is be set in the range you are reading. If we need accurate mV readings in the 30 -40 range, pick the closest DC voltage that will accurately show that. When doing PV it must read upwards of 500 V accurately so pick that range when reading PV.


----------



## jep1210

ken361 said:


> Recording at bedroom levels mic'd lead 1 to crunch
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srFGTfzeWuk



Dang, that Lead 1 sounds killer!!! Gotta go back and see what your mods are.


----------



## ken361

jep1210 said:


> Dang, that Lead 1 sounds killer!!! Gotta go back and see what your mods are.



No mods just the speaker


----------



## ken361

Jethro Rocker said:


> Yep should work fine.
> All the meter needs to do is be set in the range you are reading. If we need accurate mV readings in the 30 -40 range, pick the closest DC voltage that will accurately show that. When doing PV it must read upwards of 500 V accurately so pick that range when reading PV.



Cool!


----------



## Codeman

Sounds like Iron Maiden by Anderton's using DSL40C

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LY2vjUZKWlI


----------



## Micky

You guys need to learn how to embed videos...

Paste the www.youtube.xyz part in a message. ONLY!
DO NOT PASTE the http:// part.


----------



## Trapland

Screamin Willie said:


> Question about the effects loop.
> 
> Does anyone find the effects loop weak. I have a Carbon Copy and a Deluxe Memory Man which are way stronger effects when run into the front of the amp. The "Send" signal from the effects loop isn't even strong enough to light the Overload lamp on the DMM.
> 
> I don't remember it being this way when I got the amp, about 7 months ago. I wonder if something in the loop went south.
> 
> Willie



When run in front, the overdrive of the amp behaves like a compressor and makes each slowly decaying repeat seem as loud as the original signal until its reduces to a threshold where the amp can't act to compress it anymore. It also makes those delicate fades blur into the noise floor. Time based effects like delay are intended to be used after most compressn effect like compressors, limiters, over drives, distortion, whether they are outboard or at the front end of the amp (your "gain" control is an overdrive that compresses).

It is normal to need more output from a delay in the loop vs a delay in front to achieve the same decay effect. In the end, use them how you like them.


----------



## Codeman

Micky said:


> You guys need to learn how to embed videos...
> 
> Paste the www.youtube.xyz part in a message. ONLY!
> DO NOT PASTE the http:// part.




[ame="www.youtube.com/watch?v=LY2vjUZKWlI"]www.youtube.com/watch?v=LY2vjUZKWlI[/ame]


----------



## ken361

Have a guy going to check the bias tonight, he was willing to help out so thats cool will report later!


----------



## ken361

Micky said:


> You guys need to learn how to embed videos...
> 
> Paste the www.youtube.xyz part in a message. ONLY!
> DO NOT PASTE the http:// part.



Link doesnt work seriously


----------



## Screamin Willie

Trapland said:


> When run in front, the overdrive of the amp behaves like a compressor and makes each slowly decaying repeat seem as loud as the original signal until its reduces to a threshold where the amp can't act to compress it anymore. It also makes those delicate fades blur into the noise floor. Time based effects like delay are intended to be used after most compressn effect like compressors, limiters, over drives, distortion, whether they are outboard or at the front end of the amp (your "gain" control is an overdrive that compresses).
> 
> It is normal to need more output from a delay in the loop vs a delay in front to achieve the same decay effect. In the end, use them how you like them.



Thanks for the replies, guys. 

Willie


----------



## ken361

Well my pre bias tubes were at 39 to 40 rebiased to 38.5 I knew it wasnt to far off still little hot but I was use to the original settings.


----------



## Codeman

Hello everyone,

I just found a cool graphical representation of some preamp tubes. For those that are new (like myself) this gives you a better idea about how tubes affect gain and volume.

Note:mu is the gain factor


----------



## jep1210

So, I popped some Ruby's in V1 and V2 last night. I put a 12AX7AC7HG+ in V1 and an AC5HG+ in V2 based on someone's suggestion on this fine thread, who said it would warm it up. Sorry, I can't remember who made the suggestion, I created a Word Doc with all the suggestions and tips I found interesting or useful to remember. I didn't however copy the names of who made the different suggestion. 

I didn't notice a terribly huge difference but, I was playing at "bedroom level" so that might have something to do with it. I'll have to see at the next band setting...which is going to be a gig a week from Friday....I'm not so sure THAT was the smartest idea.  I think it might have been better to hold off on a tube swap for a practice situation but, I just had to try it.  I'm not too put off since I went on a tube buying frenzy so I have a few other options to go with. I just want to give this set up a chance with the band to get a real good idea of its affect.

I guess I should mention what tone I am chasing. I'm running my ME-70 through the green channel with Gain at 3ish and Volume at 8-9. Treb is at 2, Mids at 4-5 and Bass at 8. Presence is at 0 and Resonance is at 4. I had Resonance up in the 8-10 area but that just created a "flubbing" sound on muted notes. The highs are incredibly present , too much so IMHO. So I'd like to warm the amp up or darken it or whatever you call it. Going strait into the amp on the Red channel I can bump the Trebs and drop the Bass but I'm finding the distortion to be too Fizzy as most everyone else has said. The way I like to describe it is the amp distortion on Red sounds too gravely (if that's a word). I'd like to get it smoothed out some.

*EDIT* I forgot to say what Vol. and Gain was when using the Red Channel, Gain is at 8-10 and Volume is at 2-4,. FWIW.


----------



## Codeman

jep1210 said:


> \The highs are incredibly present , too much so IMHO. So I'd like to warm the amp up or darken it or whatever you call it. Going strait into the amp on the Red channel, I can bump the Trebs and drop the Bass but I'm finding the distortion to be too Fizzy as most everyone else has said. The way I like to describe it is the amp distortion on Red sounds too gravely (if that's a word). I'd like to get it smoothed out some.



What I typically do is Treble: 5 Middle: 7 Bass: 8 Presence: 7 Resonance: 7 and I work at low volume (2-3). However, to mitigate the treble issue I back the tone pot on my guitar down to 3 (PRS SE C24). Maybe you could try something like that?


----------



## ken361

Treb at 4 is good for me unless the amp is tilted and pointing right at me! pres at 5 bass 3 to 5 I just got a telefunken, RCA and 2 Slyvanias from a friend those Tele's are like 50.00 used! last forever lol going to roll them this weekend. My green channels quit warm really nice. Wonder if you bias is too high??


----------



## jep1210

Codeman said:


> What I typically do is Treble: 5 Middle: 7 Bass: 8 Presence: 7 Resonance: 7 and I work at low volume (2-3). However, to mitigate the treble issue I back the tone pot on my guitar down to 3 (PRS SE C24). Maybe you could try something like that?



I certainly will, thanks for the tip.


----------



## Codeman

jep1210 said:


> I certainly will, thanks for the tip.



One other note, I'm kind of a bass head and I usually take the more is more approach. If this isn't you then change the res and bass to your liking then try the other settings.


----------



## ken361

These Baldwins are really goood and smooth v1's and PI tubes or were ever 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Syl...Matched-Pair-ECC83-5751-BALDWIN-/391311970985


----------



## Trapland

Well, I went and got one today. I've been through a couple DSL15s with difficulty. Here's hoping one with EL34s works better. On first crank,nits not as nice as my 70s Marshalls, but a helluva lot better sounding than most any other tube amp in its price range. I got the "vintage styling" version.... The checkerboard grill cloth looks a bit cheesy, but that Block Logo is sweet. I'll probably cover over the checkers with Salt n Pepa or weave.

I'll change to a 1980s G12-65, put vintage Mullard or Telefunken 12ax7s in and maybe some Siemens or Tesla el34s.

Sure will be nice on some of the smaller stages to leave the stacks home, if the sound ends up in the ballpark.


----------



## Msharky67

Trapland said:


> Well, I went and got one today. I've been through a couple DSL15s with difficulty. Here's hoping one with EL34s works better. On first crank,nits not as nice as my 70s Marshalls, but a helluva lot better sounding than most any other tube amp in its price range. I got the "vintage styling" version.... The checkerboard grill cloth looks a bit cheesy, but that Block Logo is sweet. I'll probably cover over the checkers with Salt n Pepa or weave.
> 
> I'll change to a 1980s G12-65, put vintage Mullard or Telefunken 12ax7s in and maybe some Siemens or Tesla el34s.
> 
> Sure will be nice on some of the smaller stages to leave the stacks home, if the sound ends up in the ballpark.



I'm jealous! That's what I want! Soon enough!


----------



## Kl75

For you, who added a choke, do you need to disconnect the pcb or not.


----------



## Micky

Kl75 said:


> For you, who added a choke, do you need to disconnect the pcb or not.



If you have good soldering skills, it may not be necessary to remove the pcb.
I didn't for mine...

You DO need to be careful removing the ceramic resistor that you don't damage the traces. The board has plated-thru holes, so they are a bit sturdier than the older models, but the resistor is mounted to the board with the metal tabs folded under thru the holes and you need to wiggle it a bit to get it out. 

Also, they use RoHS compliant lead-free solder, which may take a bit more heat to unsolder. When re-flowing any solder joints, adding lead solder to a lead-free joint will give it a milky or cloudy color, not to worry, the joint is still strong. It kinda looks like a cold joint because it may not be as shiny as you might expect.

I can't remember if I put photos up of when I did mine, if so it would be near the front of this thread...


----------



## PtTimeRckr

Codeman said:


> Note:mu is the gain factor



Thanks, Codeman. So, does anyone interpret the lower gain/output tubes to also be "warmer" or "smoother"? I know these are subjective. Just looking for a few opinions.

Personally, I'm keeping mine stock. I just love it, but will need backup tubes sooner or later. I make my adjustments using EQ, guitar controls and even PUP height to get more warmth out of this beautiful beast.


----------



## Kl75

Micky said:


> If you have good soldering skills, it may not be necessary to remove the pcb.
> I didn't for mine...
> 
> You DO need to be careful removing the ceramic resistor that you don't damage the traces. The board has plated-thru holes, so they are a bit sturdier than the older models, but the resistor is mounted to the board with the metal tabs folded under thru the holes and you need to wiggle it a bit to get it out.
> 
> Also, they use RoHS compliant lead-free solder, which may take a bit more heat to unsolder. When re-flowing any solder joints, adding lead solder to a lead-free joint will give it a milky or cloudy color, not to worry, the joint is still strong. It kinda looks like a cold joint because it may not be as shiny as you might expect.
> 
> I can't remember if I put photos up of when I did mine, if so it would be near the front of this thread...



Thanks Micky, after reading your reply I don't think I got the skills to do it myself.
So I just made an appointment with an amp tech, for next monday and he installs the choke while I'm waiting.


----------



## MarshallDog

PtTimeRckr said:


> Thanks, Codeman. So, does anyone interpret the lower gain/output tubes to also be "warmer" or "smoother"? I know these are subjective. Just looking for a few opinions.
> 
> Personally, I'm keeping mine stock. I just love it, but will need backup tubes sooner or later. I make my adjustments using EQ, guitar controls and even PUP height to get more warmth out of this beautiful beast.



I have tried all of these tubes in various positions of my dsl 40c and Jubille 2558 and i find only the 5751 to work well. It does warm it up and reduce gain a bit without totally changing the amp. The others seemed to changing the tone and feel too much for me. The Jan-GE 5751 will warm the amp up while a JJ 5751 is not as warm IMO.


----------



## Ronnie07

Hello, 
I am a newbie to the forum and a new owner of the DSL40C. First off I want to thank everyone for the vast knowledge here, although it took me days to read the entire thread...it was well worth it. Second I have read alot about changing the speaker out and decided to give it a try. I replaced the stock 70/80 speaker with a Celestion G12T 7516 and could not be more pleased with the results, although the speaker is not fully broken in yet, it seems to sound better every time I plug in. I play mostly hard rock to metal and the speaker swap color's the amp nicely. This is my first tube amp of many Marshall's that I have owned over the years and I have to say...This one's a keeper!!!


----------



## Codeman

Hi Ronnie! Welcome to the forum. I'm glad to hear of your success with the DSL.

Don't forget to go to the introduce yourself thread!
http://www.marshallforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=28


----------



## Ronnie07

Codeman,
Thanks for the welcome! Not sure where the introduce yourself thread is? Kinda new to the forum thing as this is the first I have ever joined, or should I say the first I have thought was worth my time, lol.


----------



## Codeman

Ronnie07 said:


> Codeman,
> Thanks for the welcome! Not sure where the introduce yourself thread is? Kinda new to the forum thing as this is the first I have ever joined, or should I say the first I have thought was worth my time, lol.




http://www.marshallforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=28

^ follow the link and it will take you there or you could go to the home page of the forum and go to the bottom where it says "introduce yourself"


----------



## Ronnie07

Thanks Codeman! Found it!


----------



## Codeman

Ronnie07 said:


> Thanks Codeman! Found it!



No problem.


----------



## jep1210

Micky said:


> I drilled mine out and put t-nuts in the combo case, and now use machine screws for the back.
> 
> I never have to worry about any of that ever again.
> 
> It only makes sense if you remove/replace the back a lot...



Dzus fasteners  (quick release) would be the way to go...if only I was smart enough to design something like that.


----------



## Bownse

I've used Dzus when modding motorcycle belly pans. Would they be durable and strong enough for the thicker material of the back panel?

I really like that as a very elegant solution. Talk about long-term ease of use!

I suspect you use a bracket mounted to the main body and then the fastener on the removable panel would be mounted to line up with the plate/receptacle.

The d-ring stud (BJR) would be especially convenient for a tool-free application on an amp.

Maybe "size 4" [with a 7/16" stud head, 1/4" shaft, and a 30# normal holding tension (each)]?

http://www.aviaquip.com.au/pdf/monadnock/dzus.pdfhttp://www.aviaquip.com.au/pdf/monadnock/dzus.pdf


----------



## jep1210

jep1210 said:


> So, I popped some Ruby's in V1 and V2 last night. I put a 12AX7AC7HG+ in V1 and an AC5HG+ in V2 based on someone's suggestion on this fine thread, who said it would warm it up. Sorry, I can't remember who made the suggestion, I created a Word Doc with all the suggestions and tips I found interesting or useful to remember. I didn't however copy the names of who made the different suggestion.
> 
> I didn't notice a terribly huge difference but, I was playing at "bedroom level" so that might have something to do with it. I'll have to see at the next band setting...which is going to be a gig a week from Friday....I'm not so sure THAT was the smartest idea.  I think it might have been better to hold off on a tube swap for a practice situation but, I just had to try it.  I'm not too put off since I went on a tube buying frenzy so I have a few other options to go with. I just want to give this set up a chance with the band to get a real good idea of its affect.
> 
> I guess I should mention what tone I am chasing. I'm running my ME-70 through the green channel with Gain at 3ish and Volume at 8-9. Treb is at 2, Mids at 4-5 and Bass at 8. Presence is at 0 and Resonance is at 4. I had Resonance up in the 8-10 area but that just created a "flubbing" sound on muted notes. The highs are incredibly present , too much so IMHO. So I'd like to warm the amp up or darken it or whatever you call it. Going strait into the amp on the Red channel I can bump the Trebs and drop the Bass but I'm finding the distortion to be too Fizzy as most everyone else has said. The way I like to describe it is the amp distortion on Red sounds too gravely (if that's a word). I'd like to get it smoothed out some.
> 
> *EDIT* I forgot to say what Vol. and Gain was when using the Red Channel, Gain is at 8-10 and Volume is at 2-4,. FWIW.



Well Friday's gig went very well, I really liked the tone I was getting, though I still felt it to be a little harsher/brighter than I'm looking for. Now, was it the venue, the new tubes, the amp being (finally) broken in  who knows? I also have enough experience to know next time I could very well hate this very same set up . Time will tell, this tone quest seems VERY fickle. I will eventually put that "Tone Kit" in from Doug's, but for now I'm pretty happy wit it. I'll just roll (no pun intended) with it and see (hear?) where it goes from here. I do have some other options to try as well i.e a couple of Tungsols, a Sovtek, a couple of Mullards etc.


----------



## PtTimeRckr

Congrats, Jep

As a decades-long acoustic player and relative noob to the DSL and electrics overall, I'm amazed and excited by all the variables... tubes, bias, pentode/triode, pup height, controls, eq, cab placement, speaker... and on and on and on. Working on some side-by-sides with the 70/80 and a vintage 2x10 external cab to see what surfaces.

Oh yeah... I almost forgot one. My FINGERS! 

Have fun with it. Glad to hear you have a solid foundation from which to chase the tone...


----------



## jep1210

So I swapped the 12AX7AC7HG+, that was in V1, into V2 and the 12AX7AC5HG+, that was in V2, into V1. Holy noise maker Batman. It was all staticy (in that there was a lot of static) and buzzing all over the place. I did that because the AC5HG+ was marked 100/105 as apposed to the AC7HG+ being marked 100/110. Thought it might tame the harshness, guess I was wrong . But the noise was too much to deal with at bedroom level....can't imagine what it would have been at band level.


----------



## ken361

jep1210 said:


> So I swapped the 12AX7AC7HG+, that was in V1, into V2 and the 12AX7AC5HG+, that was in V2, into V1. Holy noise maker Batman. It was all staticy (in that there was a lot of static) and buzzing all over the place. I did that because the AC5HG+ was marked 100/105 as apposed to the AC7HG+ being marked 100/110. Thought it might tame the harshness, guess I was wrong . But the noise was too much to deal with at bedroom level....can't imagine what it would have been at band level.



bad tube


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Could be a bad tube. Try a Mullard in V1 first and see if it cleans up. I found the amp harsh on red without doing the C19 clip.


----------



## jep1210

ken361 said:


> bad tube





Jethro Rocker said:


> Could be a bad tube. Try a Mullard in V1 first and see if it cleans up. I found the amp harsh on red without doing the C19 clip.



But wouldn't it still make noise in V2? It was brand new tube I just got from Doug's tubes a month or so ago. I just figured it was one of those noisy tubes not fit for V1.

I have a Mullard in the stash, I'll give that a shot. Thanks.


----------



## ken361

Possible in the v2, tubes can go bad in a sec sometimes would try the stock ones back in a see what happens


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

I just finished putting some new preamp tubes in and figured that I should report my findings. I was out shopping last week and saw a JJ 5751 and a Svetlana 12AX7 that I thought might be interesting so I picked them up. I thought that some lower powered preamp tubes might help to get the sound I've been looking for.

Here is the first configuration that I tried:

V1 - Groove Tube 12AX7C 
V2 - JJ 5751
V3 - Svetlana 12AX7
V4 - JJ 12AX7

The Clean channel sounded nice, but not really too much different. The Crunch was better. It really did a mean(in a good way) AC/DC growl at low gain and volume. Red 1 was not as good as I was expecting. The gain had dropped but it wasn't pleasing at all anywhere that the volume was set. Red 2, although I almost never used it was not any better. I thought that maybe I had wasted 35 bucks, but I figured I would swap them around. 

Second configuration:

V1 - Groove Tube
V2 - Svetlana
V3 - 5751
V4 - JJ 12AX7

The Clean channel wasn't changed much, not that I expected it to be. The Crunch channel was fantastic. Great classic rock sound. Both of these channels were even better when I pushed them with my Bad Monkey. Red 1 was where I was really blown away. Great overdrive, again nicely enhanced with my Bad Monkey. This was more of what I was hoping for when I saw these tubes. OD 2 was better as well, but not as good as OD 1. 

I generally play at lower volumes(2 or under) and found both Red channels to be too harsh for lack of a better term. I rarely get to play at louder volumes, but liked OD 1 better when it was turned up. This seems to have solved my problem. I have a couple of Tungsol tubes that I might mix in to see if it makes any difference.
Sorry for the long post. I haven't checked in a while so I figured I should try to add something to the thread.

Cheers,

GWN


----------



## Micky

Please remember, when referring to preamp tubes, V4 in the DSL40c is part of the power amp section even though it is designed to be filled with a 12AX7.

It is not a preamp tube.


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

Micky said:


> Please remember, when referring to preamp tubes, V4 in the DSL40c is part of the power amp section even though it is designed to be filled with a 12AX7.
> 
> It is not a preamp tube.



I understand that the V4 is a phase inverter and should be balanced(100/100). Do you have any recommendations for suitable tubes in this position. I just put the JJ 12AX7 in there because I wasn't sure.


----------



## Micky

There are several arguments AGAINST balanced PI tubes as well...

As far as recommended, you will find a million different opinions here.
My personal choice is a 'rugged' tube, and definitely not 'gainy'.
If you look towards the beginning of this thread, you will see the NOS choices I have made for mine. Sylvania grey plate in my V4 I think...

Page 6 on my computer, but I have my page length set to max so it will be different on yours.


----------



## aftrshok99

I've been reading through this entire thread over the last 3 days and finished it last night. I've been using a Ibanez TSA15H and wasn't really happy with it so I contacted my Sweetwater salesman about getting something else. The DSL40CST looked very intriguing to me so I started doing research on it and came across this very helpful thread.

To give you a little background I play at church every week so that's the extent of my gigging these days. I grew up in the 80's and play hair metal and I still play with tones like VH, Dokken, etc but also some like AC/DC. At first reading of the thread I was really thinking that the DSL40 wouldn't be what I want because it just seemed like there were a lot of things that needed to be done to the amp to get a good sound and I was overwhelmed in reading all of this. As I read on I became more and more impressed with the amp and any reservations I had have basically gone away. Thanks to all the members here and their valuable posts and information I've decided the DSL40 is exactly what I'm looking for.

I do have a question about the fizz that people complain about when playing under the volume of 3 or bedroom levels on the amp. At what setting on the volume does this start to go away? Normally at church I can run an amp at 3-4 volume wise. I don't use any OD pedals at the moment but I do run delay, chorus, reverb through my effects loop.

Sorry for being long winded and Happy Thanksgiving!!!


----------



## Jethro Rocker

The volume setting you currently use at church could be miles different than what you get from a 40C. It has a pot taper that's different than some, I find it starts to push out and give some good punch between 2 -3. It's a loud little amp!!
Fizz is a very subjective term. Obviously there's some distortion, a fair bit, in 80s metal. Whether you find it fizzy or not is up to you. Once the speaker is broken in it helps. I personally did the C19 clip so channel 2 sounded EQ wise like channel one, I am unable to turn it up to 4 or past for our gigs. Worked great, for me.

As mentioned above, it does sound excellent with an OD boost up front. You can run with boost off or on giving you more tonal variety. It has a quiet loop BTW. Try it stock, play with yhe EQ, grab a Bad Monkey if need be, they are cheap, I use one also, and see.
Welcome to the forum! Many people introduce themselves in the New Members section on home page. The 40C is an excellent sounding tube amp, many of the mods were done because we collectively want tomake it work better for oir needs. There are many owners who play it stock. Preamp tubes are quite iinexpensive and fun to roll. Get one and play hard!!
Cheers


----------



## aftrshok99

Jethro Rocker said:


> The volume setting you currently use at church could be miles different than what you get from a 40C. It has a pot taper that's different than some, I find it starts to push out and give some good punch between 2 -3. It's a loud little amp!!
> Fizz is a very subjective term. Obviously there's some distortion, a fair bit, in 80s metal. Whether you find it fizzy or not is up to you. Once the speaker is broken in it helps. I personally did the C19 clip so channel 2 sounded EQ wise like channel one, I am unable to turn it up to 4 or past for our gigs. Worked great, for me.
> 
> As mentioned above, it does sound excellent with an OD boost up front. You can run with boost off or on giving you more tonal variety. It has a quiet loop BTW. Try it stock, play with yhe EQ, grab a Bad Monkey if need be, they are cheap, I use one also, and see.
> Welcome to the forum! Many people introduce themselves in the New Members section on home page. The 40C is an excellent sounding tube amp, many of the mods were done because we collectively want tomake it work better for oir needs. There are many owners who play it stock. Preamp tubes are quite iinexpensive and fun to roll. Get one and play hard!!
> Cheers



What I've used mostly at church has been an 80's model Peavey Classic 50 2x12. So I'm not sure how it's volume and the DSL's compare. It's funny how many people use the Bad Monkey, I used one with an amp a long time ago and absolutely hated the sound of it but that wasn't a very good amp so it might be worth a revisit. What else is comparable to a Bad Monkey? I think for warranty sake I'll leave it as is unless I really feel the need to do the c19 mod. I take it that changing out tubes also voids the warranty?

I'll drop by the new members section in a bit.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

It's maybe the amp and how you set the Monkey. I like the 2 way EQ controls. I set the volume or level control up and keep the gain at zero. That way there are no distortion sounds coming from the Monkey, just a big EQd boost at the front end to push the pre section of amp.
Not sure if tubes would void the warranty. You could look at a multitude of ODs or distortions - Boss SD1, OD1 or 2, etc etc etc.


----------



## Rahlstin

I love mine. 
4 x Tungsol 12AX7
2 x JJ KT77
1 x Celestion G12M65
C19 - 100pf Silver Mica


----------



## Len

aftrshok99 said:


> I've been reading through this entire thread over the last 3 days and finished it last night. I've been using a Ibanez TSA15H and wasn't really happy with it so I contacted my Sweetwater salesman about getting something else. The DSL40CST looked very intriguing to me so I started doing research on it and came across this very helpful thread.
> 
> To give you a little background I play at church every week so that's the extent of my gigging these days. I grew up in the 80's and play hair metal and I still play with tones like VH, Dokken, etc but also some like AC/DC. At first reading of the thread I was really thinking that the DSL40 wouldn't be what I want because it just seemed like there were a lot of things that needed to be done to the amp to get a good sound and I was overwhelmed in reading all of this. As I read on I became more and more impressed with the amp and any reservations I had have basically gone away. Thanks to all the members here and their valuable posts and information I've decided the DSL40 is exactly what I'm looking for.
> 
> I do have a question about the fizz that people complain about when playing under the volume of 3 or bedroom levels on the amp. At what setting on the volume does this start to go away? Normally at church I can run an amp at 3-4 volume wise. I don't use any OD pedals at the moment but I do run delay, chorus, reverb through my effects loop.
> 
> Sorry for being long winded and Happy Thanksgiving!!!



Get an attenuator or re-amper and you wont have to worry about any low volume effects


----------



## manofsteel2397

The sweetwater special is awesome the cream back speaker is far better than stock no shrilling highs that other users have reported. When dimes in this amp can get just about any sound. Just give it some time to break the speaker in, I was very disappointed at first because I got a lot if flub from the speaker, but after it was broken in all I can say is wow


----------



## Bownse

Yeah. I noticed a little flub recently too. Have about 20 hours on the Creamback and it's only when really pushing the lows. I would do a Creamback before messing with C19. You might find that the tone of the speaker change is all you need.


----------



## ken361

I didnt have anyreally flub even with the stock speaker and my preamp tubes, try adjusting you pups! and use quality cables


----------



## aftrshok99

Pulled the trigger on the DSL40CST from Sweetwater, Looking forward to playing with it and listening to my family telling me to turn it down!!


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Excellent! Well done!!


----------



## Rahlstin

I rarely have the bass above 3 when live. Mids 6, Treb3 Pres 5. getting ready to play a year end party tonight with the DSL40C rig.


----------



## Rahlstin

I agree with try speaker before c19. I found I had to put a bit of value back in as at low vol it was a bit dark w the Creamback.


----------



## cjanick

Like others who found removing C19 too muddy but the 470pf cap too bright I went with a 100pf cap to replace C19 and the match between crunch (which also uses 100pf cap) and OD is now seamless, just sounds like hot rodded crunch now. I have two DSL40Cs and did this to both of them along with power tube bias and V30s in each of them. Tried tube swaps and stayed stock except for a JJ ECC83 Gold in V2 on one of them. The EL34s are bigger glass bottles that almost look like 6CA7s and they sounded best compared to other EL34s I tried. The amp wasn't bad stock but the C19 to 100pf is a must do. 

I also own a JVM410H and on that one there was too much negative feedback, modded that one to around 140k (vs stock 82k) to get the amp more into 70s JCM2203 territory, 80s JCM 800s were even higher resistor around 176k or so. I found the DSL40C to be a bit too in your face so so smooth out the leads and tighten the bottom I added a 470k resistor in parallel with R71 on the DSL40C (Stock of 100k) (Note I think that's the right resistor on the DSL40c but an expert will have to confirm) to get me to around 82k on the DSL40C controlling negative feedback This will give it a bit more negative feedback (vs less on the JVM) to tame it a bit and give a little more headroom before break up in the power section. I own two of these DSL40Cs since they are so cheap and keep one at band practice location. I stack em on a 1x12 Jet City cabinet for a mini stack with open back combo on top. Will have to have more practice time to see if I like the negative feedback thing but so far the C19 to 100pf and V30 speaker are keepers. 

I play a Les Paul, Charvel with Super Distortion and Fender Strat with Hot Vintage pickups and all are sounding great through these amps either direct or with some clean boost or overdrive. 

Now if someone could only come up with a way to make the reverb more pronounced or sound better this amp would be perfect. For now just going to stick with TC Electronics Hall of Fame and Flashback in the loop perhaps adding a noise gate at some point for those times I want to use the Ultra/OD channel.


----------



## Micky

cjanick said:


> Like others who found removing C19 too muddy but the 470pf cap too bright I went with a 100pf cap to replace C19 and the match between crunch (which also uses 100pf cap) and OD is now seamless, just sounds like hot rodded crunch now. I have two DSL40Cs and did this to both of them along with power tube bias and V30s in each of them. Tried tube swaps and stayed stock except for a JJ ECC83 Gold in V2 on one of them. The EL34s are bigger glass bottles that almost look like 6CA7s and they sounded best compared to other EL34s I tried. The amp wasn't bad stock but the C19 to 100pf is a must do.
> 
> I also own a JVM410H and on that one there was too much negative feedback, modded that one to around 140k (vs stock 82k) to get the amp more into 70s JCM2203 territory, 80s JCM 800s were even higher resistor around 176k or so. I found the DSL40C to be a bit too in your face so so smooth out the leads and tighten the bottom I added a 470k resistor in parallel with R71 on the DSL40C (Stock of 100k) (Note I think that's the right resistor on the DSL40c but an expert will have to confirm) to get me to around 82k on the DSL40C controlling negative feedback This will give it a bit more negative feedback (vs less on the JVM) to tame it a bit and give a little more headroom before break up in the power section. I own two of these DSL40Cs since they are so cheap and keep one at band practice location. I stack em on a 1x12 Jet City cabinet for a mini stack with open back combo on top. Will have to have more practice time to see if I like the negative feedback thing but so far the C19 to 100pf and V30 speaker are keepers.
> 
> I play a Les Paul, Charvel with Super Distortion and Fender Strat with Hot Vintage pickups and all are sounding great through these amps either direct or with some clean boost or overdrive.
> 
> Now if someone could only come up with a way to make the reverb more pronounced or sound better this amp would be perfect. For now just going to stick with TC Electronics Hall of Fame and Flashback in the loop perhaps adding a noise gate at some point for those times I want to use the Ultra/OD channel.



Negative feedback is about the only thing I haven't tinkered with yet, I was thinking that as well about the headroom also.

But to attack the reverb, it is critical to get a final section with as much dynamic range as possible. The stock marshall-branded EL34's didn't do it for me, the TAD's and the Telefunkens had that bright, full range that let the reverb shine thru.

Since I have converted mine to 6550's, it seems the reverb is about the same, but it is much more noticeable than stock. There are many here who are looking to boost the circuit a bit, and I am sure, that with time, someone will come along with a mod. 

To own 2 of these as well as a JVM is quite the collection...


----------



## ken361

I use a Caline Space Time delay, its cheap and sounds freaking great! warm echo's that sound natural. You wont think about reverb very much using this!


----------



## aftrshok99

New DSL40CST will be in this Wednesday and it can't be soon enough. Had an issue today during service with the Peavey Classic 50 I'm using. It was humming pretty bad just plugged in and before the last song I switched it off standby and it hummed like normal then quit humming. Sound guy said he could barely hear me. Probably need to change or at least check tubes in it to see what's going on with it.

I need things back to normal, it's been something every week.


----------



## Micky

The DSL40c has proven to be VERY reliable.


----------



## aftrshok99

Micky said:


> The DSL40c has proven to be VERY reliable.



Sure hope so....LOL 

Do you know if replacing and biasing tubes voids the warranty? I'm guessing it probably does.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Likely not if iy is done by a factory authorized Marshall tech. And there's the rub. Start with stock!! Play it and see!!


----------



## aftrshok99

Kinda what I thought but I was planning on trying the stock tubes out for awhile, maybe I'll like it.


----------



## Micky

aftrshok99 said:


> Kinda what I thought but I was planning on trying the stock tubes out for awhile, maybe I'll like it.



I know you will like it. All of us did when we got one...


----------



## Bownse

ken361 said:


> I didnt have anyreally flub even with the stock speaker and my preamp tubes, try adjusting you pups! and use quality cables



I'm using those $50 a linear foot cables made out of unicorn phalisii from Mogami. What more do I need? 

I have considered putting the OEM pre-amp tube back into the PI spot but have been fighting the flu, so less than motivated this past week.


----------



## ken361

I use mogami also


----------



## aftrshok99

Amp is on FedEX truck for delivery today....sweet!!!! I'll have time tonight to crank it up and rock.


----------



## aftrshok99

Been playing with the amp for the past hour and dang that sucker is loud around 3 on the vol. and 2 on the gain (the numbers on the knobs). I really like the tones I'm getting out of it but I really need to tweak it with the band. Right now the Treble is on 2 and it still seems like it's got to much sizzle to it. This maybe ok playing with the band though. Creamback speaker is nice, can't wait to break it in. It's dead quiet with nothing plugged into it but if you roll up the treble it starts getting noisy....not sure if that's normal or not. Doesn't matter which channel it's on when I turn the treble up. There's a bit of noise with my pedalboard in the effects loop but it's not to bad.

Really digging the amp, glad I got it!!!


----------



## MarshallDog

Well, after months of playing this amp,and my other amps, I decided it's time to add a bit of capacitance to channel 1 and 2. I have had C4 and C19 removed but now I have added 20pF to each and boy does it sound good. I can actually get the Ultra Channel to sound just like the Chruch channel which is what I want so I can leave the Chruch channel,in clean giving me a switchable clean and Chrunch channel


----------



## Duffy49

Congratulations.

Some hiss is normal. Changing tubes can make it hiss worse, or less.

You're going to dig this amp.


----------



## Micky

MarshallDog said:


> Well, after months of playing this amp,and my other amps, I decided it's time to add a bit of capacitance to channel 1 and 2. I have had C4 and C19 removed but now I have added 20pF to each and boy does it sound good. I can actually get the Ultra Channel to sound just like the Chruch channel which is what I want so I can leave the Chruch channel,in clean giving me a switchable clean and Chrunch channel



Told you so...


----------



## MarshallDog

Well, you guys wont believe this. Tonight my wife goes out with a friend for dinner. I'm like time to blast my DSL40C. I Never play above 4 on the Ultra 1 Channel with the gain at 3-4 (5751 in V2) even when jamming with the guys. Now I have been having a few strange issues pop up once in a great while with this amp like sound dying then cycle the power and all is fine. Well tonight I put in ear plugs, channel on Ultra 1 with gain on 3 and volume maxed. Sounded great. Then things got funny. I heard some strange popping, sizzling, hissing and thought another bad pre tube. So I spend a lot of time cycling the pres with no good results. Crank the amp and the sound actually fizzles out...dead. I'm like no sh-t! I change ever pre with no luck but notice a strange smell and I'm like this is not good. I even change the power tubes and dead. So I pull the chassis thinking/hoping I will find something burnt and nothing. I check all the pre pin sockets, nothing. Then for some reason I think, lets measure the speaker resistance. It is open. I'm like no way. I grab a brand new G12M-65W Creamback out of stock and it read 13.6. OK, I button up the amp and plug it into my 4X12 and it plays and sound perfect, WTF. 

So I pull the G12M-65 Creamback out of the DSL40C and stick my sniffer in the dust cap and I can smell that smell. I could actually see the coils trashed under it. I cut the dust cap out and the pics are below. I put the new speaker in and all is great. Do you think I could have had a bad speaker or did the amp just over power it based on the vol at 6, gain at 3 and a 5751 in V2 which sound drop the gain and vol a bit???

I really though this amp was going to the Tech and I would waste 2-3 weeks and 200.00 while he worked on it. I just can't believe a 40W amp can blow a 65W speaker ...really? Maybe I had a bad one? I cant believe no fuses and/or the OT didn't go I am really happy right now, I thought this amp was toast. 

What do you guys think? I'm thinking this amp has one robust OT AND be careful with those speakers, this amp even with a 5751 in V2 must put out some power????

Here are the pics...


----------



## MarshallDog

Another question...I notices on Ultra Lead 1 gain at and nothing plugged into the amp I get a bit higher than normal noise. If I slowly increase the vol to 10 (max) just the noise increases. However with the vol maxed and when I slowly increase the gain and get to 6-7 I start getting howling and squealing and I can;t go past this point.

So I changed out V1 with an EH 12AX7 and the noise is almost nothing and with nothing plugged into the amp, I can get both the volume and gain maxed with just a touch of noise...not that I will ever play like this but still.

So, I would say I have a microphonic V1tube correct? It is a Tube Store 7025 which are nice sounding and dont color the tone. They are a bit pricey at 23 bucks each and are supposed to be heavy duty quality tubes but this is the 3rd tube I have had go bad over the months and another one was in my 22558 Jubilee.

I must say that EH does sound nice in V1.

Any comments, suggestion, etc?


----------



## Micky

MarshallDog said:


> Another question...I notices on Ultra Lead 1 gain at and nothing plugged into the amp I get a bit higher than normal noise. If I slowly increase the vol to 10 (max) just the noise increases. However with the vol maxed and when I slowly increase the gain and get to 6-7 I start getting howling and squealing and I can;t go past this point.
> 
> So I changed out V1 with an EH 12AX7 and the noise is almost nothing and with nothing plugged into the amp, I can get both the volume and gain maxed with just a touch of noise...not that I will ever play like this but still.
> 
> So, I would say I have a microphonic V1tube correct? It is a Tube Store 7025 which are nice sounding and dont color the tone. They are a bit pricey at 23 bucks each and are supposed to be heavy duty quality tubes but this is the 3rd tube I have had go bad over the months and another one was in my 22558 Jubilee.
> 
> I must say that EH does sound nice in V1.
> 
> Any comments, suggestion, etc?



In a nutshell, yes. 

Because the signal (as well as any noise or other sounds) are amplified, again and again and again, if the signal is not controlled well it will feedback so to speak. 

23 bucks is not pricey. It is the middle for a V1 tube. $123 is a bit pricey.
Anywhere between $10 and $40 is good for a quiet, low-noise (read:not microphonic) tube is average.


----------



## MarshallDog

Micky said:


> In a nutshell, yes.
> 
> Because the signal (as well as any noise or other sounds) are amplified, again and again and again, if the signal is not controlled well it will feedback so to speak.
> 
> 23 bucks is not pricey. It is the middle for a V1 tube. $123 is a bit pricey.
> Anywhere between $10 and $40 is good for a quiet, low-noise (read:not microphonic) tube is average.



That's what I thought. I was saying expensive compared to JJ's, Mullards & EH which all sound good also.

Do you think I blew the speaker posted below because it was bad or because the amp put out too much power at those setting, it is a65W speaker


----------



## DaveG1963

ken361 said:


> In 8 years I only had the static prob once was a new 68 custom twin, I had my older preamp tubes in and one day I had that static noise. I sprayed the tube pins and worked them in a few times and it helped. There was some ping noise when I tapped the top but it still worked, doubt if it was the power tubes at the time. Since your still hearing that noise its prb the power tubes. See I put all the stock pre's back in I wasnt using any of those since I had the amp so used those to test if there was a problem.
> It could still be the preamp tubes possibly if you had a another set to try.



Ken361 well I apologize for not replying sooner but holidays, work, you know the drill. Ended up it was the Power tubes! Replaced the preamp tubes as you know so I just left them in there. No popping, no hissing whatsoever. I was blaming some of my gits for having grounding issues...not the case! I appreciate the help and am enjoying her now. Thanks!


----------



## ken361

DaveG1963 said:


> Ken361 well I apologize for not replying sooner but holidays, work, you know the drill. Ended up it was the Power tubes! Replaced the preamp tubes as you know so I just left them in there. No popping, no hissing whatsoever. I was blaming some of my gits for having grounding issues...not the case! I appreciate the help and am enjoying her now. Thanks!



Cool! Had to replace mine also


----------



## jep1210

I rolled a 12AT7 into V1 and a JJ5751 into V4 from Doug's. Both were matched tubes. The AT7 was marked 95/95 in sharpie on the tube and the 5751 was 100/100, still not sure what those numbers mean. I know they're a measurement of gain but how it related to a tubes rating is still fuzzy for me.

Anyway, I really liked it. On the Classic Channel Green 1 I was able to turn the gain up to about 8 and volume up to 3 or 4 and got no break up...which in my book is a good thing. I have been playing it swapped with the volume at around 8 gain at 3-4 with the stock tubes. With the gain higher than volume I got a nice warm sound appose to the brighter sound I was getting when the volume was set higher than gain.

All of this is said with some trepidation as it's all been done at Bedroom levels. The acid test will be how it sounds at the next band get together...is that an acid test? Oh IDK it sounds good anyway.

One last thing, I noticed the 12AT7 was glowing more than any of the other tubes....not sure if that means anything....time will tell if it burns out quickly. But that got me thinking (I know, I know, alert the Guinness world record people ) Do you guys bring along extra, known good tube, when you play out?


----------



## Micky

MarshallDog said:


> Well, you guys wont believe this. Tonight my wife goes out with a friend for dinner. I'm like time to blast my DSL40C. I Never play above 4 on the Ultra 1 Channel with the gain at 3-4 (5751 in V2) even when jamming with the guys. Now I have been having a few strange issues pop up once in a great while with this amp like sound dying then cycle the power and all is fine. Well tonight I put in ear plugs, channel on Ultra 1 with gain on 3 and volume maxed. Sounded great. Then things got funny. I heard some strange popping, sizzling, hissing and thought another bad pre tube. So I spend a lot of time cycling the pres with no good results. Crank the amp and the sound actually fizzles out...dead. I'm like no sh-t! I change ever pre with no luck but notice a strange smell and I'm like this is not good. I even change the power tubes and dead. So I pull the chassis thinking/hoping I will find something burnt and nothing. I check all the pre pin sockets, nothing. Then for some reason I think, lets measure the speaker resistance. It is open. I'm like no way. I grab a brand new G12M-65W Creamback out of stock and it read 13.6. OK, I button up the amp and plug it into my 4X12 and it plays and sound perfect, WTF.
> 
> So I pull the G12M-65 Creamback out of the DSL40C and stick my sniffer in the dust cap and I can smell that smell. I could actually see the coils trashed under it. I cut the dust cap out and the pics are below. I put the new speaker in and all is great. Do you think I could have had a bad speaker or did the amp just over power it based on the vol at 6, gain at 3 and a 5751 in V2 which sound drop the gain and vol a bit???
> 
> I really though this amp was going to the Tech and I would waste 2-3 weeks and 200.00 while he worked on it. I just can't believe a 40W amp can blow a 65W speaker ...really? Maybe I had a bad one? I cant believe no fuses and/or the OT didn't go I am really happy right now, I thought this amp was toast.
> 
> What do you guys think? I'm thinking this amp has one robust OT AND be careful with those speakers, this amp even with a 5751 in V2 must put out some power????
> 
> Here are the pics...


Holy crap!

I can't believe I missed this post...
(but I really been busy as of late, extra work, Tech conference, etc...)

I have never seen a voice coil shredded like that!
I don't think it was overpowering it, you would need to run wide open for a long long time to do that to a 65W speaker with a 40c... I have a feeling it may have been rubbing occasionally in order to wear it a bit then it finally went over the edge.

Defect in workmanship I think... It wasn't one of those Chinese ones was it?


----------



## Rahlstin

Bad speaker. I've been running same speaker for 10 months and have opened it up many many times for a good period of time and no issues. 65wCB's are UK mfg at least that's what the Celestion box it came in states.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

jep1210 said:


> I rolled a 12AT7 into V1 and a JJ5751 into V4 from Doug's. Both were matched tubes. The AT7 was marked 95/95 in sharpie on the tube and the 5751 was 100/100, still not sure what those numbers mean. I know they're a measurement of gain but how it related to a tubes rating is still fuzzy for me.
> 
> Anyway, I really liked it. On the Classic Channel Green 1 I was able to turn the gain up to about 8 and volume up to 3 or 4 and got no break up...which in my book is a good thing. I have been playing it swapped with the volume at around 8 gain at 3-4 with the stock tubes. With the gain higher than volume I got a nice warm sound appose to the brighter sound I was getting when the volume was set higher than gain.
> 
> All of this is said with some trepidation as it's all been done at Bedroom levels. The acid test will be how it sounds at the next band get together...is that an acid test? Oh IDK it sounds good anyway.
> 
> One last thing, I noticed the 12AT7 was glowing more than any of the other tubes....not sure if that means anything....time will tell if it burns out quickly. But that got me thinking (I know, I know, alert the Guinness world record people ) Do you guys bring along extra, known good tube, when you play out?



Some tubes glow more than others. No worries!! I take a spare amp head (lunchbox) and tubes when playing out. Absolutely! Cover yourself!!


----------



## MarshallDog

Micky said:


> Holy crap!
> 
> I can't believe I missed this post...
> (but I really been busy as of late, extra work, Tech conference, etc...)
> 
> I have never seen a voice coil shredded like that!
> I don't think it was overpowering it, you would need to run wide open for a long long time to do that to a 65W speaker with a 40c... I have a feeling it may have been rubbing occasionally in order to wear it a bit then it finally went over the edge.
> 
> Defect in workmanship I think... It wasn't one of those Chinese ones was it?




No it was a UK made one. I guess anyone company can screw up on QC sometimes. I'll try another one and go from there. Thanks for your feedback.


----------



## MarshallDog

Rahlstin said:


> Bad speaker. I've been running same speaker for 10 months and have opened it up many many times for a good period of time and no issues. 65wCB's are UK mfg at least that's what the Celestion box it came in states.



Well, I popped in another one and hopefully all will be fine. I don't really play that loud for any period of time. Very interesting. Thanks for the feedback on how you have run yours.


----------



## Bownse

Regardless

It makes me glad I went with the 75 watt er instead.


----------



## MarshallDog

Bownse said:


> Regardless
> 
> It makes me glad I went with the 75 watt er instead.



I have a new one but have not tried it, does it sound good? I'm a greenie guy that's why I have not tried it.


----------



## aftrshok99

Just a little update....got to use my new amp at church yesterday. I had the gain set on about 3 and vol on 2.5 on the lead 1. Crunch was gain 6 vol 2.5. I couldn't turn up anymore or it would of been way to loud. Even with our drummer playing really hard yesterday...LOL. I did notice that I have to have the treble rolled off my on my guitar as well as turned down below 2 on the amp, can't have presence or resonance turned up at all. I'm just getting way to much highs. Even at those settings it sounded really good, nice and loud. Our other guitar player who wasn't playing yesterday said it sounded really good. By doing the C19 mod does that smooth out the highs? I'm going to continue to break-in the speaker before making the decision to do the mod but was just curious. Could it also be the bias of the power tubes making it impossible for me to get the treble dialed in?


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Usually it's speaker break in. The C19 clip keeps the EQ consistent between channels so less harsh high end on Ultra channel at lower volumes.


----------



## MarshallMatters

So Jethro , are u saying that for people who want to use the 40c only to play in the bedroom the c19 mod is a great thing ? ( just asking this cuz im thinking about buying the 40c to play at home only )


----------



## MarshallDog

aftrshok99 said:


> Just a little update....got to use my new amp at church yesterday. I had the gain set on about 3 and vol on 2.5 on the lead 1. Crunch was gain 6 vol 2.5. I couldn't turn up anymore or it would of been way to loud. Even with our drummer playing really hard yesterday...LOL. I did notice that I have to have the treble rolled off my on my guitar as well as turned down below 2 on the amp, can't have presence or resonance turned up at all. I'm just getting way to much highs. Even at those settings it sounded really good, nice and loud. Our other guitar player who wasn't playing yesterday said it sounded really good. By doing the C19 mod does that smooth out the highs? I'm going to continue to break-in the speaker before making the decision to do the mod but was just curious. Could it also be the bias of the power tubes making it impossible for me to get the treble dialed in?



Yes it does, I run my presence at 5 and my treble at 3.5. I did add a 20 pF to C19. I found it to be a bit too dead at 0 pF.


----------



## aftrshok99

MarshallDog said:


> Yes it does, I run my presence at 5 and my treble at 3.5. I did add a 20 pF to C19. I found it to be a bit too dead at 0 pF.



I can't run mine anywhere near that right now. I also have to run the bass a little higher than I'd like.

Do you think it would be worth checking the bias?


----------



## Bownse

MarshallDog said:


> I have a new one but have not tried it, does it sound good? I'm a greenie guy that's why I have not tried it.



I *really* like it and, given what it brought to the game, would recommend a speaker swap and some time before trying any C19 (or other) clipping.


----------



## ken361

Mines not cut and I keep the treb 4 no problem


----------



## Micky

Bownse said:


> I *really* like it and, given what it brought to the game, would recommend a speaker swap and some time before trying any C19 (or other) clipping.



I agree.

The stock speaker, even the Creamback is a bright speaker, especially in an open-back cab. Consider a speaker swap before you void the warranty...


----------



## Jethro Rocker

MarshallMatters said:


> So Jethro , are u saying that for people who want to use the 40c only to play in the bedroom the c19 mod is a great thing ? ( just asking this cuz im thinking about buying the 40c to play at home only )


You could do a speaker swap to lower the high end but I still found the EQ to be a bit too high endy on Ultra channel as compared to Green channel. My opinion here. So i did the clip and never looked back. Both channels have the same EQ properties now.
When the amp is revved up, you hear less of this that's why I mentioned for lower volume. I never really get mine to 4 on MV for gigging. It works for me!!


----------



## MarshallDog

aftrshok99 said:


> I can't run mine anywhere near that right now. I also have to run the bass a little higher than I'd like.
> 
> Do you think it would be worth checking the bias?



It can't hurt but it won't make that much difference, it didn't for me.


----------



## markm

Hey all

Still enjoying my DSL40C and playing it lots.

It seems to be losing a little bit of something sound-wise ... I'm not quite sure what.

I was thinking of just swapping out all the preamp tubes since I have a bunch; and see what it sounds like after that.

Seem like a good, or maybe dumb idea?

Thanks


----------



## ken361

I always change my preamp tubes right away!


----------



## Codeman

Has anyone been able to get decent Metallica settings for the DSl40C? Setting the bass is giving me fits...


----------



## ken361

Codeman said:


> Has anyone been able to get decent Metallica settings for the DSl40C? Setting the bass is giving me fits...



Lead 2 gain at 3 to 4, bass 3 treb 4 mids 5 pres 6 and res 6
works for me on a Les Paul, even the red 1 does is ok. Red 2 is pretty beefy and gainy


----------



## newplayeroldguy

Mine has developed a hum that wasn't evident until last night. I've changed guitar cables, and unplugged the Christmas lights that we just put up. What else should I be checking?


EDIT- nevermind, I unplugged the guitar and turned the amp on- no hum. I put it back on standby, replugged the guitar in and turned it on again- no hum 

I'll check the jack for losseness or dust


----------



## caper

oyvn said:


> I tryed finding a step by step guide to biasing. My main problem is however the high static noise on all channels when i crank it.(unnplugged) Since this is my first tubeamp Im wondering if its suppoes to be this quite high "white radio noise" or if i have some faulty parts in my new amp.. And im sorry if i ask stupid questions.



I hope this finds you. I joined the forum specifically for this issue. My amp NEVER made this noise for 8 months, and then suddenly started. 

I took a video and posted to youtube, and when I did, I noticed other "suggested videos" with the same issue>: Sudden static noise. It sounds like an AM Radio station that isn't tuned properly and there is a snow storm outside (constant static which varies in loudness). 
No guitar plugged in. 
Sent for repair, and it came back not fixed. I sent it out again yesterday.

Here is the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59EloE1e_1o

The guy at L & M Music store said it "wasn't that bad" and that the technician will likely say it is "normal". 

WRONG. It wasn't like that when I bought it, and with a microphone in front of it, it just sounds like crap when you aren't playing...

has anyone identified the problem or experienced this same issue?


----------



## Micky

caper said:


> I hope this finds you. I joined the forum specifically for this issue. My amp NEVER made this noise for 8 months, and then suddenly started.
> 
> I took a video and posted to youtube, and when I did, I noticed other "suggested videos" with the same issue>: Sudden static noise. It sounds like an AM Radio station that isn't tuned properly and there is a snow storm outside (constant static which varies in loudness).
> No guitar plugged in.
> Sent for repair, and it came back not fixed. I sent it out again yesterday.
> 
> Here is the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59EloE1e_1o
> 
> The guy at L & M Music store said it "wasn't that bad" and that the technician will likely say it is "normal".
> 
> WRONG. It wasn't like that when I bought it, and with a microphone in front of it, it just sounds like crap when you aren't playing...
> 
> has anyone identified the problem or experienced this same issue?


What have you done (other than taking it to an unqualified tech...) to remedy the problem?
Have you swapped out the tubes?
Have you checked the bias?


----------



## Jethro Rocker

yes, pre amp tubes can get noisy - improperly seated or just wearing out. Tubes are notorious. They can crap out at any point. Could be power tubes as well. Pre tubes are easy to change. Buy 1 new one and pull them one at a time and replace with new. See if one of them is the culprit. Just wiggle them carefully back and forth they pull straight out.


----------



## caper

Micky said:


> What have you done (other than taking it to an unqualified tech...) to remedy the problem?
> Have you swapped out the tubes?
> Have you checked the bias?


 
It is under Warranty. I am a fast learner with electronics but have zero experience with tube amps. I brought it to Long&McQuade (the national music store in Canada) who sent it to their repair shop. 

Remember that it worked perfectly for 8 months. Then that noise started. Did you watch the vid and listen to it? The idiot who did the repair said "No noise heard and I ran the amp for days (plural)". Are they saying I am nuts or what? It is not random, but constant!!  

So no I didn't check the bias or swap any tubes. i don't have any tubes, but I am thinking I should order a few for spares. I will take recommendations for brand/type but I want to keep the sound similar to the OM sound when I bought it.


----------



## caper

Jethro Rocker said:


> yes, pre amp tubes can get noisy - improperly seated or just wearing out. Tubes are notorious. They can crap out at any point. Could be power tubes as well. Pre tubes are easy to change. Buy 1 new one and pull them one at a time and replace with new. See if one of them is the culprit. Just wiggle them carefully back and forth they pull straight out.



You would think the tech would have done this simple task! They said they couldn't even hear the noise!! Could YOU hear it in the video?

He said there was "_occasional blatting indicating bad output tube(s)"_
The receipt showed:
_Guitar repair Part (1) EL34 : $64_
and labor costs...

The noise is unchanged, however. I made a new video of the noise but I haven't uploaded it yet.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

So they changed one tube when really they should be a matched pair and re biased. Tech definitely should heve checked all the tubes. They also indicated there WAS a problem when they mentioned bad output tube. So how can it be normal?? I don't know of any other warranty Marshall service depots, is there more than one L&M where you live?


----------



## Jethro Rocker

The noise is louder when the gain is up and on the lead channel but is still present on the green channel. This is NOT a normal hiss problem associated with high gain and high volume. They need to look at both power tubes. Perhaps they have a floor model they can test with yours side by side??
Our tech here is good but there is one dip**** on the floor I could do withoit. Clueless...


----------



## ken361

My power tubes went in 10 months, had loud static noise. I bought new ones popped them in to see if it was the problem and it was. I rebiased later on and it wasnt that much off. I did have that noise on another amp but it was a preamp tube


----------



## caper

Jethro Rocker said:


> The noise is louder when the gain is up and on the lead channel but is still present on the green channel. This is NOT a normal hiss problem associated with high gain and high volume.


that is what I thought exactly ...



> They need to look at both power tubes. Perhaps they have a floor model they can test with yours side by side??


He is going to do that when the amp arrives. They are shipping it far away.



> Our tech here is good but there is one dip**** on the floor I could do withoit. Clueless...


Well, you can guess my thoughts on the first guy that got a hold of this thing... He said he didn't hear anything!! LOL!



Jethro Rocker said:


> So they changed one tube when really they should be a matched pair and re biased.


Interesting info. Thanks.




> Tech definitely should heve checked all the tubes.


But if he didn't hear the noise for whatever reason, then why would he? lol



> I don't know of any other warranty Marshall service depots, is there more than one L&M where you live?


L&M are a nationwide music monopoly ... (chain store)


----------



## rlowe

Hello, fellow tube amp dudes out there in Marshall land. I recently changed my preamp tubes, and power tubes due to a crackling static sound which later, became a compressed large sonic hum even after I turned the amp off; didn't play it after that episode until corrected. After 5 months of owning this amp, first I changed the preamp tubes; Doug's recommended set. It still did not correct the issue, yep! power tubes. I then installed 2 E34L's from Eurotubes and man this amp is humming!( in a good way) The speaker is stock and fully broke in. One thing has anyone checked their bias after purchase, as mine registered at 54. something per side. The amp always sounded good, but I know that probably contributed to a premature power tube death!.


----------



## rlowe

rlowe said:


> Hello, fellow tube amp dudes out there in Marshall land. I recently changed my preamp tubes, and power tubes due to a crackling static sound which later, became a compressed large sonic hum even after I turned the amp off; didn't play it after that episode until corrected. After 5 months of owning this amp, first I changed the preamp tubes; Doug's recommended set. It still did not correct the issue, yep! power tubes. I then installed 2 E34L's from Eurotubes and man this amp is humming!( in a good way) The speaker is stock and fully broke in. One thing has anyone checked their bias after purchase, as mine registered at 54. something per side. The amp always sounded good, but I know that probably contributed to a premature power tube death!.



NOTE: I did rebias to around 40.0


----------



## caper

rlowe said:


> NOTE: I did rebias to around 40.0



So I saw the bias pots in a previous post in this thread. 
I don't recall the explanation on how to actually set them...
Where do you put the meter probes, and what are you actually checking...? (which unit? resistance, voltage, ...) 
Tube amps are new to me, but I have limited experience with circuit boards and multimeters.


----------



## Micky

caper said:


> So I saw the bias pots in a previous post in this thread.
> I don't recall the explanation on how to actually set them...
> Where do you put the meter probes, and what are you actually checking...? (which unit? resistance, voltage, ...)
> Tube amps are new to me, but I have limited experience with circuit boards and multimeters.



First page of this thread explains bias connections and adjustments.


----------



## ken361

Theres a good video on the tube how to bias the 40c. Check plate voltage then take that reading and look at bias calculator on the web and that will tell you what to set the bias at. My plate reading was 450 volts and set it 38.5 its just a tad on the hot side

heres the vid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jj3hSEjySxg


----------



## jep1210

ken361 said:


> Theres a good video on the tube how to bias the 40c. Check plate voltage then take that reading and look at bias calculator on the web and that will tell you what to set the bias at. My plate reading was 450 volts and set it 38.5 its just a tad on the hot side
> 
> heres the vid
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jj3hSEjySxg



Dang! Ken ya beat me to it


----------



## caper

ken361 said:


> Theres a good video on the tube how to bias the 40c. Check plate voltage then take that reading and look at bias calculator on the web and that will tell you what to set the bias at. My plate reading was 450 volts and set it 38.5 its just a tad on the hot side
> 
> heres the vid
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jj3hSEjySxg


 
I will check the video out after work. Sounds easy. Thanks.


----------



## ken361

I was leary to do it by my self and never done it before, I had a guy on the Gear Page.com help me with the bias. It easier to have another guy pulling the chassis out or maybe lay it on its side might be easier.


----------



## rlowe

caper said:


> So I saw the bias pots in a previous post in this thread.
> I don't recall the explanation on how to actually set them...
> Where do you put the meter probes, and what are you actually checking...? (which unit? resistance, voltage, ...)
> Tube amps are new to me, but I have limited experience with circuit boards and multimeters.



There is a good video on youtube as Mr. Ken suggested, and other info. available on this forum. Not to scare anyone, but do be careful as there are high voltage points within the amp even when not turned on. It's not difficult, but do study!


----------



## Jethro Rocker

I wondered if you lived in a major center with perhaps another L&M store that may have a model to test it with. We have 2 here for example but only one with a tech. Sounds like if they send it away then they do not have a tech on hand. I really think it may be output tubes.


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

My first 40C went quiet after about a week I took it back to the store expecting them to change tubes. They promptly gave me a new one. It was cheaper than L&M was selling it at the time too.


----------



## ken361

Ok say if one power tube blows and you can clearly see it. What if I used a unmatched one will I still be able to bias it with the one since theres 2 pots?


----------



## caper

Jethro Rocker said:


> I wondered if you lived in a major center with perhaps another L&M store that may have a model to test it with. We have 2 here for example but only one with a tech. Sounds like if they send it away then they do not have a tech on hand. I really think it may be output tubes.



Nah man. I live in the sticks. The tech in Quebec said he is going to do a side-by-side when it arrives. I suggested that at L&M and all they had was a DSL-15 and it made a bad ground hum sound louder than the static in mine...

Static Video [ Part 1 ]

Static Video [ Part 2 ] 

Static Video After 2 Month "repair" [ Part 3 ]

and they changed one of the output tubes it seems... EL34.


----------



## Micky

ken361 said:


> Ok say if one power tube blows and you can clearly see it. What if I used a unmatched one will I still be able to bias it with the one since theres 2 pots?



Generally, yes.


----------



## ken361

Thx Micky


----------



## MarshallDog

Well, Micky, I now have a 100 pF cap in the C19 and a 100 pF cap in C4 (stock value). I swear these amps tone changes as time goes on. I thought it was just perfect before with nothing in those slots now it sounds even better with the 100 pF in bot, I don't get it Maybe its me. Same rooms, same guitars, same tubes, same speakers, same EQ settings???


----------



## Micky

MarshallDog said:


> Well, Micky, I now have a 100 pF cap in the C19 and a 100 pF cap in C4 (stock value). I swear these amps tone changes as time goes on. I thought it was just perfect before with nothing in those slots now it sounds even better with the 100 pF in bot, I don't get it Maybe its me. Same rooms, same guitars, same tubes, same speakers, same EQ settings???



You are becoming used to the amp. AND, you are figuring out exactly how to tweak it to get it to sound just so...

And you know I hate to say it, but I told you so.

(I haven't played my DSL40c in over a month...)


----------



## Bownse

ken361 said:


> Ok say if one power tube blows and you can clearly see it. What if I used a unmatched one will I still be able to bias it with the one since theres 2 pots?



Since the 40C has two bias pots, you should be able to unless the pair are widely out from each other.


----------



## ken361

Bownse said:


> Since the 40C has two bias pots, you should be able to unless the pair are widely out from each other.



Just wondered for future reference


----------



## Rahlstin

The pots are miss labled though, Marshall stated they made an oops when boards were printed. the lh one does the Rh tube and vise versa


----------



## MarshallDog

Micky said:


> You are becoming used to the amp. AND, you are figuring out exactly how to tweak it to get it to sound just so...
> 
> And you know I hate to say it, but I told you so.
> 
> (I haven't played my DSL40c in over a month...)



So what are you playing??


----------



## ken361

My red channel really's sounding warmer and good with EH power tubes and bias.Seems that they smooth out after a few weeks


----------



## Len

ken361 said:


> My red channel really's sounding warmer and good with EH power tubes and bias.Seems that they smooth out after a few weeks



It seems like I'm part of a small group of folks who actually uses the red channel as the main channel...


----------



## Micky

MarshallDog said:


> So what are you playing??



DSL5c. Little fukker rocks, best part is I can crank it and it gets loud.

Signature Tele w/EMG passive pickups. And a reverb pedal...


----------



## ken361

Len said:


> It seems like I'm part of a small group of folks who actually uses the red channel as the main channel...



I use the red a lot


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Me too. I only use Green for cleanish once in a long while or boosted with an OD. Then I use Green and then Red for solos. Otherwise it's red all the way and a boost in loop.


----------



## BanditPanda

Trapland said:


> got the "vintage styling" version.... The checkerboard grill cloth looks a bit cheesy, but that Block Logo is sweet. I'll probably cover over the checkers with Salt n Pepa or weave.
> 
> Noooooo Trapland..lol that grill cloth with the gold block Marshall logo is just a really beautiful looking amp and " special " Just ordered my CV on Friday. Told the guy I only wanted the CV.
> Think about it bud. Take another look. It is a beaut !!
> B.P.


----------



## BanditPanda

Why has Marshall discontinued the DSL40 ?


----------



## Micky

BanditPanda said:


> Why has Marshall discontinued the DSL40 ?


They ran out. All gone.


----------



## BanditPanda

Micky said:


> They ran out. All gone.


That means they stopped making them. I wonder why?


----------



## BanditPanda

BanditPanda said:


> That means they stopped making them. I wonder why?


 
Never mind...I see now in the advertising that this amp is a
" Ltd Edition " Marshall .


----------



## BanditPanda

Hey guys...tell me something. Are so many problems, as detailed in the DSL40C thread, normal with new amplifiers ? Crikey I think I have never read so may complaints about any amp ever before. Isn't it strange that we all have read this very detailed thread, read all the problems being had by previous buyers and yet go out and buy the amp anyway?
I mean you've got the C4 and C19 things, the useless to non functioning reverb, the shared eq rendering channel switching practically impossible.
the shrill piercing tone, the less than pleasing 70/80 speaker , the Chinese tubes, the third replacement is a charm syndrome.
I mean at least one poster came out ( maybe a troll, I don't know ) and said this amp is crap.
If this amp was a car it would have been recalled and banned from the road !!
No doubt lots of praise for the amp too. with great tone, a great variety of tone,s sturdy and good workmanship, good price etc., etc.,
And yet I should be recvg my new DLC40CV next week. Go figure.
Can only hope I get one of the " good " ones.
What say you?
B.P.


----------



## MarshallDog

BanditPanda said:


> Hey guys...tell me something. Are so many problems, as detailed in the DSL40C thread, normal with new amplifiers ? Crikey I think I have never read so may complaints about any amp ever before. Isn't it strange that we all have read this very detailed thread, read all the problems being had by previous buyers and yet go out and buy the amp anyway?
> I mean you've got the C4 and C19 things, the useless to non functioning reverb, the shared eq rendering channel switching practically impossible.
> the shrill piercing tone, the less than pleasing 70/80 speaker , the Chinese tubes, the third replacement is a charm syndrome.
> I mean at least one poster came out ( maybe a troll, I don't know ) and said this amp is crap.
> If this amp was a car it would have been recalled and banned from the road !!
> No doubt lots of praise for the amp too. with great tone, a great variety of tone,s sturdy and good workmanship, good price etc., etc.,
> And yet I should be recvg my new DLC40CV next week. Go figure.
> Can only hope I get one of the " good " ones.
> What say you?
> B.P.



Its like anything, some are good and a very small percentage are bad. As compared to an auto and the many mods, how many people customize/mod their rides to make them unique, I for one customize all my rides to a small degree just to set it slightly apart from all the others, same goes for this amp and I love it.


----------



## Woods

It's called performance upgrades. It's like chippin' your diesel. Most quality things have features you can swap around.

I've got a tinkerer/builder personality. So you damn right; my hot-rod is low and fast, my amp is loud and brown, and my shop is full of tools!

NAD has come and gone the DSL40c is fun!


----------



## BanditPanda

MarshallDog said:


> Its like anything, some are good and a very small percentage are bad. As compared to an auto and the many mods, how many people customize/mod their rides to make them unique, I for one customize all my rides to a small degree just to set it slightly apart from all the others, same goes for this amp and I love it.



Thank you. I understand. You have done a lot of tinkering with the amp to arrive at " I love it " Up to page 37 ( 2014 AD ) now on this thread and have just read all of Wangchung;s trials and tribulation. He just gave up on the amp.
Honestly, as much as I want this Marshall what with so many problems experienced by so many people I'm thinking I should just cancel my order.
This amp may just be a dud. The Edsel of Marshall amps lol ?
Actually I am selling my Fender Blues Deluxe to finance the Marshall purchase. Deluxe has been flawless and I did have my tech do a speaker swap and change of tubes. I needed a change and want to eventually go LP /Marshall. Wondering at this point whether the DSL40C is worth the agro.
Besides yourself and Micky I don't know if I can name one other member of this thread that is happy with their purchase of the DSL40C 
Now you guys are skilled in soldering , electronics etc., etc and you therefore derive pleasure also from all the time you devote to your mods and tinkering. I am unfortunately not so skilled and all mods would have to be performed by a tech.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

There are many people happy with this amp!! Often people say nothing unless they have a problem. That's partly why you hear so many. Sadly it's hard to read 165 pages of stuff to get the full picture.
Speaker - ken361 among others likes it once broken in. You DID change the speaker on your Blues Dlx, is it a recall??
C19 clip - I did it only to get both channels closer tonally. It does NOT HAVE to be done!!
Shared EQ does not render channel switching useless. I am using mine that way and love it. If you REALLY need a different tone for leads, throw an EQ in the loop. My Jube and 6505 MH have a shared EQ as well, not an issue. 
I personally find the crunch channel not gainy enough so I use an OD pedal. Many others use it as is. I also find an OD pedal tightens up my TSL, a 3 channel amp all with separate EQs!! Yet I still OD it. Not a sign of weakness!!

The reverb is OK when the amp is turned up a bit. If it was a car it would not be recalled!! Someone might put a different header, different exhaust, tires, traction bars etc on an old muscle Charger. Should it be recalled because they modded it?? No. Tubes die. They do. Quite a few members here post when they have an issue which is often tubes. I personally don every time a tube dies but I understand newer members have questions. Don't knock the amp because of a bit of flack you hear on here.
The 40C is poular partly from price but if it was total crap, sales would drop and die.
I am using mine for my next show early January although I have 3 other Marshalls i could use cause I like it!!


----------



## BanditPanda

Woods said:


> It's called performance upgrades. It's like chippin' your diesel. Most quality things have features you can swap around.
> I've got a tinkerer/builder personality. So you damn right; my hot-rod is low and fast, my amp is loud and brown, and my shop is full of tools!
> NAD has come and gone the DSL40c is fun!


 
The DSL40C is " fun ". Like I mentioned previously you are also deriving pleasure by tinkering with the amp. However taking into consideration the time and additional dollars you have put into the amp can you objectively say that this is very good Marshall amp to buy, for guitar playing enjoyment and professional sound?
Thanks. I appreciate your input.
B.P.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Yes. Yes I can. I gig with mine and will continue to do so. I soldered nothing. Pre amp tubes are an easy change and I like doing it as do many "pros". It's a fun very good soinding amp. It really is easy to get a good Marshall rock tone out of this amp!!


----------



## Jethro Rocker

BTW, in addition to the Official thread which is almost uselessly long, there are a gazillion other 40C threads here. Look 'em up and you'll see a good balance of info!!


----------



## Woods

BanditPanda said:


> The DSL40C is " fun ". Like I mentioned previously you are also deriving pleasure by tinkering with the amp. However taking into consideration the time and additional dollars you have put into the amp can you objectively say that this is very good Marshall amp to buy, for guitar playing enjoyment and professional sound?
> Thanks. I appreciate your input.
> B.P.



Of course, right out of the box it kicks ass. 

It's just really easy to play with, and because it's such a nice amp, and like any good platform, responds well to simple modifications, it makes you want to add cool s8it to it. That's what my point is: If it was a chore to deal with, I'd venture other places in the amplifier kingdom.


As far as what I've got into mine: Taking my time, I've got maybe 6 hours into it, including being real particular setting bias, and I've done all the "major" mods (3) with ease.

Classic tone choke, OT, clipping c19, leaving the leads long to solder to, settling on a 120pf mica cap from a selection. I ordered everything from Triode USA, seller option from the classic tone website. Real easy.

The last part was adding my flavor of V1 and V2 tubes, a new speaker, and while re-tubing my other amp, picked up some power tubes for it. So I've fully drank the kool-aid.

Each mod is a piece of the puzzle. Not sure any of them take precedence over the other. I do like that unbalanced tube in the PI slot.


----------



## ken361

Im still happy with mine a year later, just a speaker change and my personal tube stash! I owned many amps! Had a blues deluxe it was real decent with a speaker change and I ran the bogner pedals but it didnt roar like Marshall!


----------



## ken361

Theres a guy named Jim on here he's a great player and uses the 40c stock when he plays out, also uses plexi amps at home


----------



## BanditPanda

ken361 said:


> Theres a guy named Jim on here he's a great player and uses the 40c stock when he plays out, also uses plexi amps at home



Thank you Ken. Hopefully Jim will see us.
Noticed the WGS British speaker. How do you like it, what's it about and what does it do ?
B.P.


----------



## Woods

^My thoughts are if one was to buy new; grab the G12M-65 creamback version from sweetwater. You'll be way ahead of the game!




BP, they have different voicing https://wgs4.com/et65 is a popular one for our amps, their version of the G12-65; listen to the sound samples, eminence has similar clips.

https://wgs4.com/catalog/british-invasion


http://www.eminence.com/support/tone-guide/

I'd advise doing a search for MartyStrat54 and his speaker wisdom.

Listen to this too:

[ame]www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFgjzu1ECoc[/ame]


----------



## ken361

BanditPanda said:


> Thank you Ken. Hopefully Jim will see us.
> Noticed the WGS British speaker. How do you like it, what's it about and what does it do ?
> B.P.



It based on a Celestion, it warmed everything up nicely I got it really cheap. Any most speakers will be good I just run the treble at 4


----------



## Micky

As I have said many times in the past, the Seventy/80 is an inexpensive speaker, and may not be best suited for an open-back combo configuration. To compare them to a Greenback or a Creamback is really kinda unfair, as their characteristics and specifications are different. The comparison does clearly demonstrate the sonic differences between the speakers.

In my opinion, the Seventy/80 sounds best in a closed-back configuration. Especially one with extra 'volume' such as a deeper cabinet that will allow more boominess. It is a bright speaker.


----------



## ricksteruk

Woods said:


> ^My thoughts are if one was to buy new; grab the G12M-65 creamback version from sweetwater. You'll be way ahead of the game!
> 
> ...
> 
> Listen to this too:
> 
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFgjzu1ECoc




WOW! I know you guys all talk about swapping out the 70/80s but i had no idea just how thin and nasty they sound 

I was thinking of trying one of the 75H Creambacks in my H&K Switchblade combo... 
I wonder if the stock Eminence Rockdriver in there is as bad as the 70/80


----------



## Woods

I'm with you; bright guitars, bright pickups, bright speakers and bright amps like the DSL, shoot tone chain laser beams directly into the uncomfortable part of your ears!



When I swapped out that speaker, it was no secret it was the right thing to do.


----------



## IRG

So I've had mine since August or September. I still like it a lot. A few observations so far. The footswitch to turn on/off the reverb has quit working. I'm pretty sure Sweetwater would give me a new one, I just haven't asked. The reverb is weak. It actually sucks pretty hard, so I don't care that much. I've had a Boss RV-6 in the effects loop, and it was too much reverb. I added a new Digitech Polara reverb this past week, and it is awesome, everything I hoped it would be, blends in very well with the overall mix.

I still have the original tubes, but probably not for much longer. I'm getting sort of a ghosting/reflecting noise, not sure how to describe it. I had this issue with a Vox AC15 at one time, and it was tubes there too. I've been looking at the TubeDepot.com website, and a full set of JJ pre/power tubes are about $67, probably worth doing all of them at once. I've never biased an amp, nor do I have tools. I have a local guy who works in a very highly regarded vintage guitar store, will probably take it there. Or Voodoo Amps, if anyone here as heard them, they do tons of mods and their own designs.

I do use both channels fairly regularly. I like the cleans, although with my Les Paul, it doesn't get super clean, could be the guitar/pickups too, but the vibrations I'm getting from the tubes are a factor. WIth the gain turned up you don't notice it much.

Using it at home, I'm mostly using the 20w setting, but not always (depends who's home). On the red channel, I like the gain around 4, volume 3-5, treble at 4-5, mids 3, bass - depends if I'm on my neck or bridge pickup, but say 4-5. Mid cut engaged. Lead 1. Presence and Resonance around 5-6 - I still need to play around more with these controls, I don't think they do that much at 20w. This setting gives me a nice bluesy crunch on the neck pup, with the guitars vol at 7-8, or on the bridge with the vol all the way up, and tone back to 7. Nice contrast in tones.

I seem to run the green channel on the clean mode most of the time. I should try out the crunch channel a little more. I also use a Wampler Clarksdale overdrive - a very nice tubescreamer with a 3 channel EQ, softouch switch. There are times I prefer it over the amp's gain, seriously. Just a different flavor, and less ear fatigue with it. I have not done the C19 bright cut mod, maybe that's why.

I have 2 fuzzes on my board too, a Bearfoot Candy Apple Red fuzz (think tonebender meets fuzz face) and a JHS Muffuletta, which has 6 very authentic muff tones to choose from. When I use the Muff for a while, with its thunderous low end and scooped midrange, and then switch over to the red channel, it is such a difference. Red just sounds way too midrangey and bright - but a part of that is just getting used to different tones.

Now I really do like the Red channel 2, with my PRS in DropC tuning. Very heavy, scooped tone, with gain up to 5-6, vol at 3-4, mids turned down to 2-3, bass at 5, treble maybe 4-5. Works great for a heavy, more metal type tone, and the down tuning helps a lot too, probably obvious.

So what's next? Other than the new tubes (feel free to suggest something better than JJ that aren't much more $), I'm not sure. Voodoo amps has a slew of mods they can do, ranging in price from $295 (plus $25 for an effects loop mod) to a platinum series of mods for $1007 - about $300 more than the amp itself, lol. But every component would be top notch. I doubt I would need this much done, but I'd like to hear one to compare to a stock one. And just using it at home, I think these mods would be lost on me. But new tubes will be welcome soon. Cheers.


----------



## Woods

IRG said:


> So what's next? Other than the new tubes (feel free to suggest something better than JJ that aren't much more $), I'm not sure.



http://www.marshallforum.com/showthread.php?t=72867

TAD EL34B-STR power tubes kick some ass so far; lots of folks on here love this tube in these amps.

I say don't be scared to mod. The heavy hitters are easy as pie, and WELL documented!


----------



## IRG

Woods said:


> http://www.marshallforum.com/showthread.php?t=72867
> 
> TAD EL34B-STR power tubes kick some ass so far; lots of folks on here love this tube in these amps.
> 
> I say don't be scared to mod. The heavy hitters are easy as pie, and WELL documented!




Thanks, I'll take a closer look now at tube brands. Are JJ's stock in these amps? I didn't think so. Who carries the TAD tubes?


----------



## Woods

JJ stock pre-amp (red label), Shuguang EL34-B are the power. (white label)

Got my TAD matched set and other tubes from here:

https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/T-EL34B-TAD



It's been said before, don't bother with the balanced PI tube, just a standard sounds better in these amps. What I did was follow Marty's advice, just did the V1 and V2, used what sounded best of the extra v1/v2 to replace v4 (PI).

Don't forget to bias! 38mv is pretty standard and sounds great.


http://www.marshallforum.com/showthread.php?t=38943

If you clip the c19, I'd recommend putting something like 100-180pf silver mica in it's place, which you can buy from the seller above with your tube order, otherwise it gets dark. This mod will not be lost on you, it hits you in the face with a hammer!

https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/C-SM

I'd also say slap a new speaker in there when you get a chance, hear good things about the WGS ET-65 which runs about $90 shipped. I went with a v30 I had laying around then onto a man-o-war; night and day difference from stock...


----------



## Natedog_37

I will say I love my DSL40 Still stock and it really sounds great with in the band settings. 

No mods all stock


----------



## Woods

Natedog_37 said:


> I will say I love my DSL40 Still stock and it really sounds great with in the band settings.
> 
> No mods all stock



This is good.

I'll be the guy: It would sound better without the 70/80 in there. 

Can't y'all hear the tin in my earlier YouTube post? C'mon get excited!


----------



## rlowe

IRG said:


> So I've had mine since August or September. I still like it a lot. A few observations so far. The footswitch to turn on/off the reverb has quit working. I'm pretty sure Sweetwater would give me a new one, I just haven't asked. The reverb is weak. It actually sucks pretty hard, so I don't care that much. I've had a Boss RV-6 in the effects loop, and it was too much reverb. I added a new Digitech Polara reverb this past week, and it is awesome, everything I hoped it would be, blends in very well with the overall mix.
> 
> I still have the original tubes, but probably not for much longer. I'm getting sort of a ghosting/reflecting noise, not sure how to describe it. I had this issue with a Vox AC15 at one time, and it was tubes there too. I've been looking at the TubeDepot.com website, and a full set of JJ pre/power tubes are about $67, probably worth doing all of them at once. I've never biased an amp, nor do I have tools. I have a local guy who works in a very highly regarded vintage guitar store, will probably take it there. Or Voodoo Amps, if anyone here as heard them, they do tons of mods and their own designs.
> 
> I do use both channels fairly regularly. I like the cleans, although with my Les Paul, it doesn't get super clean, could be the guitar/pickups too, but the vibrations I'm getting from the tubes are a factor. WIth the gain turned up you don't notice it much.
> 
> Using it at home, I'm mostly using the 20w setting, but not always (depends who's home). On the red channel, I like the gain around 4, volume 3-5, treble at 4-5, mids 3, bass - depends if I'm on my neck or bridge pickup, but say 4-5. Mid cut engaged. Lead 1. Presence and Resonance around 5-6 - I still need to play around more with these controls, I don't think they do that much at 20w. This setting gives me a nice bluesy crunch on the neck pup, with the guitars vol at 7-8, or on the bridge with the vol all the way up, and tone back to 7. Nice contrast in tones.
> 
> I seem to run the green channel on the clean mode most of the time. I should try out the crunch channel a little more. I also use a Wampler Clarksdale overdrive - a very nice tubescreamer with a 3 channel EQ, softouch switch. There are times I prefer it over the amp's gain, seriously. Just a different flavor, and less ear fatigue with it. I have not done the C19 bright cut mod, maybe that's why.
> 
> I have 2 fuzzes on my board too, a Bearfoot Candy Apple Red fuzz (think tonebender meets fuzz face) and a JHS Muffuletta, which has 6 very authentic muff tones to choose from. When I use the Muff for a while, with its thunderous low end and scooped midrange, and then switch over to the red channel, it is such a difference. Red just sounds way too midrangey and bright - but a part of that is just getting used to different tones.
> 
> Now I really do like the Red channel 2, with my PRS in DropC tuning. Very heavy, scooped tone, with gain up to 5-6, vol at 3-4, mids turned down to 2-3, bass at 5, treble maybe 4-5. Works great for a heavy, more metal type tone, and the down tuning helps a lot too, probably obvious.
> 
> So what's next? Other than the new tubes (feel free to suggest something better than JJ that aren't much more $), I'm not sure. Voodoo amps has a slew of mods they can do, ranging in price from $295 (plus $25 for an effects loop mod) to a platinum series of mods for $1007 - about $300 more than the amp itself, lol. But every component would be top notch. I doubt I would need this much done, but I'd like to hear one to compare to a stock one. And just using it at home, I think these mods would be lost on me. But new tubes will be welcome soon. Cheers.


JJ stock preamp tubes sound ok, my stock preamp tubes started going out after about 5 months. I contacted Doug's tubes, and they recommended a preamp tone kit consisting in order of: V1 Tungsol, V2 Ruby, V3 Ruby, V4 Sovtek. Optional HG and balanced phase inverter V4. Amp more of a well rounded, defined sound. This may also be due to the new E34L's I installed (not EL34's which are stock). Punchier, more aggressive sounding with E34L's. The speaker has lost the sharp piercing sound after about 5-6 months avg. playing. The speaker even sounds darker or is it the EQ? after 5-6 months being played with Les Paul. I will probably try a V-30, or creamback speaker later, but for now amp sounds basically good, as I wanted to give it some time to evaluate after break in. No mod's as of yet?


----------



## jeffb

My dsl40c came from the factory with TAD EL34s.ittle stickers on the base f each tube say as much.

I recently put some Mullards(New Sensor) in it. Much better. Clearer bass, more depth, and more vintage crunchy. The TADs sound a bit more flat


----------



## IRG

Woods said:


> JJ stock pre-amp (red label), Shuguang EL34-B are the power. (white label)
> 
> Got my TAD matched set and other tubes from here:
> 
> https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/T-EL34B-TAD
> 
> 
> 
> It's been said before, don't bother with the balanced PI tube, just a standard sounds better in these amps. What I did was follow Marty's advice, just did the V1 and V2, used what sounded best of the extra v1/v2 to replace v4 (PI).
> 
> Don't forget to bias! 38mv is pretty standard and sounds great.
> 
> 
> http://www.marshallforum.com/showthread.php?t=38943
> 
> If you clip the c19, I'd recommend putting something like 100-180pf silver mica in it's place, which you can buy from the seller above with your tube order, otherwise it gets dark. This mod will not be lost on you, it hits you in the face with a hammer!
> 
> https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/C-SM
> 
> I'd also say slap a new speaker in there when you get a chance, hear good things about the WGS ET-65 which runs about $90 shipped. I went with a v30 I had laying around then onto a man-o-war; night and day difference from stock...



Thanks, will look at these links closer. I do have the Creamback speaker in my amp, and that will stay.


----------



## BanditPanda

Micky said:


> As I have said many times in the past, the Seventy/80 is an inexpensive speaker, and may not be best suited for an open-back combo configuration..


Hello Micky
I have read that you are fond of the Eminence brand of speaker and with my DSL40CV arriving next week I do have an Eminence Red,White & Blues speaker which I can swap with the 70/80. With your knowledge of Eminence and speaker selection for the DSL40C how do you think the RW&B would match up with it?
B.P.


----------



## IRG

rlowe said:


> JJ stock preamp tubes sound ok, my stock preamp tubes started going out after about 5 months. I contacted Doug's tubes, and they recommended a preamp tone kit consisting in order of: V1 Tungsol, V2 Ruby, V3 Ruby, V4 Sovtek. Optional HG and balanced phase inverter V4. Amp more of a well rounded, defined sound. This may also be due to the new E34L's I installed (not EL34's which are stock). Punchier, more aggressive sounding with E34L's. The speaker has lost the sharp piercing sound after about 5-6 months avg. playing. The speaker even sounds darker or is it the EQ? after 5-6 months being played with Les Paul. I will probably try a V-30, or creamback speaker later, but for now amp sounds basically good, as I wanted to give it some time to evaluate after break in. No mod's as of yet?




Checking out Doug's site now, this looks helpful, thanks. Same state, shipping should be quick when I order.


----------



## BanditPanda

Woods said:


> ^
> 
> BP, they have different voicing https://wgs4.com/et65 is a popular one for our amps, their version of the G12-65; listen to the sound samples, eminence has similar clips.
> 
> Thank you Woods for all that. Great stuff.
> B.P.


----------



## Woods

IRG said:


> Thanks, will look at these links closer. I do have the Creamback speaker in my amp, and that will stay.




Excellent, the ET-65 is a real similar speaker. Keep us posted!


----------



## Woods

BanditPanda said:


> Woods said:
> 
> 
> 
> ^
> 
> BP, they have different voicing https://wgs4.com/et65 is a popular one for our amps, their version of the G12-65; listen to the sound samples, eminence has similar clips.
> 
> Thank you Woods for all that. Great stuff.
> B.P.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Glad I can help!
Click to expand...


----------



## RyanV

Oooohhhyyy my gaaawwwwwd. I have spent so many hours in this thread. 

Interesting to see the changes that Marshall has made to this amp since the beginning of this thread. As jeffb noted about his amp, My DSL40 also came with TAD's (Well, the power tubes anyway). My amp crapped the bed and redplated the other day while playing (on half power if I remember right) so I've got a new set of TAD's on the way. My guess is that the amp was biased too hot and the use I have put it through gigging it the past few months just did them in. 

I've been a fan of the TAD tubes in other amps...I put their 6L6's in my Fender Pro Reverb, a full set of them in a friends Bandmaster 50 and also used some of their EL84's in an Analog Outfitters Sarge another friend has. They really seem to take abuse and sound great. 

I'm interested in doing the C19 mod. The current one in my amp measures around .68/9 nF and I have ALWAYS felt the same way about the brightness of the Ultra channel as many of you have since the beginning. I would love to mellow it down a little bit. I see it has been mentioned that 100pf or even a bit higher will tame it...is that correct? 

Hey stupid question - Can I check the bias supply without having the power tubes plugged in? I'm curious to see where it is at but I've never thought to try before other than to turn them all the way down before turning the amp on, which on this is...clockwise? 

I don't know about the bars/clubs we play but I know my house tends to run hot so I generally stay a bit conservative/middle of the road on my biasing since I don't like to buy tubes every 3 months...

This thread is absolutely epic and I'm so glad to see so many people who A.) Love the amp as much as I do and B.) Hate the speaker it comes with. I'm looking at Throwing an ET65 or a Veteran 30 into it. I even had considered putting a G12C/S in it. (also WGS but in the "American" line. 

Oh and...Hi! I'm Ryan, as you can see... Another Ham radio guy who also plays music and works on his own amps... *tips hat*


----------



## Bownse

Micky said:


> As I have said many times in the past, the Seventy/80 is an inexpensive speaker, and may not be best suited for an open-back combo configuration. To compare them to a Greenback or a Creamback is really kinda unfair, as their characteristics and specifications are different. The comparison does clearly demonstrate the sonic differences between the speakers.
> 
> In my opinion, the Seventy/80 sounds best in a closed-back configuration. Especially one with extra 'volume' such as a deeper cabinet that will allow more boominess. It is a bright speaker.



LIKE BUTTON pushed.


----------



## MarshallDog

RyanV said:


> Oooohhhyyy my gaaawwwwwd. I have spent so many hours in this thread.
> 
> Interesting to see the changes that Marshall has made to this amp since the beginning of this thread. As jeffb noted about his amp, My DSL40 also came with TAD's (Well, the power tubes anyway). My amp crapped the bed and redplated the other day while playing (on half power if I remember right) so I've got a new set of TAD's on the way. My guess is that the amp was biased too hot and the use I have put it through gigging it the past few months just did them in.
> 
> I've been a fan of the TAD tubes in other amps...I put their 6L6's in my Fender Pro Reverb, a full set of them in a friends Bandmaster 50 and also used some of their EL84's in an Analog Outfitters Sarge another friend has. They really seem to take abuse and sound great.
> 
> I'm interested in doing the C19 mod. The current one in my amp measures around .68/9 nF and I have ALWAYS felt the same way about the brightness of the Ultra channel as many of you have since the beginning. I would love to mellow it down a little bit. I see it has been mentioned that 100pf or even a bit higher will tame it...is that correct?
> 
> Hey stupid question - Can I check the bias supply without having the power tubes plugged in? I'm curious to see where it is at but I've never thought to try before other than to turn them all the way down before turning the amp on, which on this is...clockwise?
> 
> I don't know about the bars/clubs we play but I know my house tends to run hot so I generally stay a bit conservative/middle of the road on my biasing since I don't like to buy tubes every 3 months...
> 
> This thread is absolutely epic and I'm so glad to see so many people who A.) Love the amp as much as I do and B.) Hate the speaker it comes with. I'm looking at Throwing an ET65 or a Veteran 30 into it. I even had considered putting a G12C/S in it. (also WGS but in the "American" line.
> 
> Oh and...Hi! I'm Ryan, as you can see... Another Ham radio guy who also plays music and works on his own amps... *tips hat*



To bias tubes I would have to say the tubes need to be installed because the bias current depends on the characteristics of tthat tube. 

As for C19, I like it best with a 100 pF installed.


----------



## Natedog_37

Woods said:


> This is good.
> 
> I'll be the guy: It would sound better without the 70/80 in there.
> 
> Can't y'all hear the tin in my earlier YouTube post? C'mon get excited!



Truly. Not really. 

I am tempted to change the speakers out.

I need to listen to your videos.

But for what my cover band plays. Classic rock all the way up to today rock this amp sounds great. Even running the boost though the effects loop, and my Digitech GNX4 though the front it sounds great. "Yes the head, and cab emulators are off."


----------



## Codeman

I finally ordered my mods!

V1: TAD 7025WA
V2: Mullard 12AX7RI
V3: Svetlana 12AX7*
V4: Svetlana 12AX7*
Power: TAD EL34B-STR

*These are in the same family as the Electro Harmonix and Tungsol 12AX7's from New Sensor, but have higher gain then the EH and a smoother and less bright sound than the Tungsol.

Speaker: Celestion G12H-75 Creamback

Special thanks goes out to: MartyStrat54, MarshallDog, and Pedecamp for the tips.


----------



## jeffb

For new stuff..I really Like svetlanas. I would put one.of them or its kin in V2 instead of the mulard RI. I cannot find one amp n the last four where the mullard ri ecc83 sounds worth a damn. It works better as a PI, then anywhere else in my experience. It was best as the PI in my OR15.


----------



## Codeman

jeffb said:


> For new stuff..I really Like svetlanas. I would put one.of them or its kin in V2 instead of the mulard RI. I cannot find one amp n the last four where the mullard ri ecc83 sounds worth a damn. It works better as a PI, then anywhere else in my experience. It was best as the PI in my OR15.



Yeah, that is a good option but I think I'm going to follow Marty's advice first on this one. He seems to know what's up. It won't be the end of the world if I have to put the Mullard RI in V4 and switch a Svet in.


----------



## Lamaar

Hi guys, replacing the preamps tubes on mine dsl 40c, but which one is the V1 in the combo?

** Just found it out, the one with the rubber ring is the V1 **


----------



## MarshallDog

Lamaar said:


> Hi guys, replacing the preamps tubes on mine dsl 40c, but which one is the V1 in the combo?



Its the one with the rubber o-ring on it.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

If you can find an RFT it is excellent in V1 and cuts some of yhe highs. Smooth. Nice tube!!


----------



## Bownse

wrong thread.


----------



## BanditPanda

Codeman said:


> I finally ordered my mods!
> 
> V1: TAD 7025WA
> V2: Mullard 12AX7RI
> V3: Svetlana 12AX7*
> V4: Svetlana 12AX7*
> Power: TAD EL34B-STR
> 
> Thanks for putting this out there Codeman. This is a mother of a thread to find the right line up.
> B.P.


----------



## Codeman

BanditPanda said:


> Codeman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I finally ordered my mods!
> 
> V1: TAD 7025WA
> V2: Mullard 12AX7RI
> V3: Svetlana 12AX7*
> V4: Svetlana 12AX7*
> Power: TAD EL34B-STR
> 
> Thanks for putting this out there Codeman. This is a mother of a thread to find the right line up.
> B.P.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't tried this yet, but it seems like everyone else likes them except there is mixed feelings about the Mulllard RI. Also, what fits my needs might not meet yours. I encourage you to go to The Tube Store and look at the sites reviews first and then customer reviews.
Click to expand...


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Yes, try a few!! If you can find an NOS GE or Sylvania tube, they make an excellemt PI tube. Try a Tung Sol in V1 as well as maybe the Mullard although, again, an original Mullard is reeeal sweet.


----------



## Oldpunk

Still rocking a Tungsol RI in V1 and a Ruby AC7 HG+ in V2. No need to fix what ain't broke.


----------



## aftrshok99

Quick question....Been playing my dsl40c a lot but I just can't get rid of the highs. I have the treble on 1 on the knob and it's still bright. I wonder if my guitar is just a little to bright for the amp. It's an alder body Carvin with their stock pickups and a maple fretboard. I'm thinking about changing out the pickups to something warmer. Any thoughts on doing that and would it help?

Last week at service I couldn't get the treble dialed out, it was ear piercing to say the least.


----------



## RyanV

aftrshok99 said:


> Quick question....Been playing my dsl40c a lot but I just can't get rid of the highs. I have the treble on 1 on the knob and it's still bright. I wonder if my guitar is just a little to bright for the amp. It's an alder body Carvin with their stock pickups and a maple fretboard. I'm thinking about changing out the pickups to something warmer. Any thoughts on doing that and would it help?
> 
> Last week at service I couldn't get the treble dialed out, it was ear piercing to say the least.



That doesn't even make sense to me. If I were to turn my Treble and Presence all the way down on the amp I'm not even sure you could tell what notes I was playing anymore. Same goes for those plus the tone rolled down on the guitar. What are you playing that you want the guitar sound to be stuck in the mud? 

I'm curious where your settings are.


----------



## ken361

I dont care for alder strat style guitars and my main axe anymore the Les Paul or SG warmth and smoothness it cant be beat. Tubes and speaker change and a good pick! not a thin tortex!!


----------



## ken361

RyanV said:


> That doesn't even make sense to me. If I were to turn my Treble and Presence all the way down on the amp I'm not even sure you could tell what notes I was playing anymore. Same goes for those plus the tone rolled down on the guitar. What are you playing that you want the guitar sound to be stuck in the mud?
> 
> I'm curious where your settings are.



I hear you


----------



## aftrshok99

RyanV said:


> That doesn't even make sense to me. If I were to turn my Treble and Presence all the way down on the amp I'm not even sure you could tell what notes I was playing anymore. Same goes for those plus the tone rolled down on the guitar. What are you playing that you want the guitar sound to be stuck in the mud?
> 
> I'm curious where your settings are.




It's funny because it's not stuck in the mud sound at all. I even have to back the treble halfway down on the guitar. My guitar cuts through the mix right now with no issues but as I said, it's just a little to much on the bright side of things. It's getting to be a little frustrating to say the least.

Here's my settings on the amp: The numbers are the what is marked around the knobs

Ch 1: Gain 4 Vol 3
Ch 2: Gain 2 Vol 3

Treble 1
Mid 4
Bass 6
Presence 0
Resonance 0


----------



## aftrshok99

ken361 said:


> I dont care for alder strat style guitars and my main axe anymore the Les Paul or SG warmth and smoothness it cant be beat. Tubes and speaker change and a good pick! not a thin tortex!!



I've got the creamback speaker in it and I'm pretty sure it's still not broken it yet but I don't see that cutting out the overly brightness once it is.

Maybe I should go the tube route, suggestions on which tubes?

I use tortex 1.14mm picks because that's what I've always used sometimes 2mm but never thinner than the 1.14mm


----------



## ken361

No resonance ?? dam


----------



## ken361

aftrshok99 said:


> I've got the creamback speaker in it and I'm pretty sure it's still not broken it yet but I don't see that cutting out the overly brightness once it is.
> 
> Maybe I should go the tube route, suggestions on which tubes?
> 
> I use tortex 1.14mm picks because that's what I've always used sometimes 2mm but never thinner than the 1.14mm



I was using a .75 tortex then a V pick Tradition UL which is even smoother on red channel over the tortex. at $4.00 a pick its nice im sure your guitar is too bright and some old stock tubes will warm it up for sure


----------



## ken361

Either im playing low bed room I keep the volume really low and it sounds good, loud 4 is the sweet spot! gain at 5 to 7 low gain thins it out some. Channel 2 gain at 5 to 7 volume same also. Set it up near a wall to think thicken the tone. My amp sounds thick with a lot of bass at my girlfriends condo with a finished basement with a drop ceiling and carpeted floor. My house a lot older I have to run the bass from 3 from her house to 5 at my house! I even ran the resonance at max the other day and it sounded perfectly good and not muddy at all! so it depends were you play at!


----------



## aftrshok99

ken361 said:


> Either im playing low bed room I keep the volume really low and it sounds good, loud 4 is the sweet spot! gain at 5 to 7 low gain thins it out some. Channel 2 gain at 5 to 7 volume same also. Set it up near a wall to think thicken the tone. My amp sounds thick with a lot of bass at my girlfriends condo with a finished basement with a drop ceiling and carpeted floor. My house a lot older I have to run the bass from 3 from her house to 5 at my house! I even ran the resonance at max the other day and it sounded perfectly good and not muddy at all! so it depends were you play at!




I'll give that a try, maybe the lower gain setting is part of the culprit along with my pickups and guitar.

Here's my setup where we play. It's a 300-400 seat room with carpet and drop ceiling. My amp is about 2 feet from the back wall and there is a curtain that runs behind my amp.


----------



## Codeman

aftrshok99 said:


> I'll give that a try, maybe the lower gain setting is part of the culprit along with my pickups and guitar.
> 
> Here's my setup where we play. It's a 300-400 seat room with carpet and drop ceiling. My amp is about 2 feet from the back wall and there is a curtain that runs behind my amp.



What pickup positions do you use? When i had my SSS strat in the bridge it sounded like that until I put a humbucker in that position. Also, put the resonance about 5 if you aren't sure where to start. At zero the bass isn't mixing with the sound and compensating for the treble.

I wouldn't say lower gain is the problem...


----------



## ken361

PLay at home and pretty loud and find your tone that way with adjustments and tube changes is what I do.


----------



## aftrshok99

Codeman said:


> What pickup positions do you use? When i had my SSS strat in the bridge it sounded like that until I put a humbucker in that position. Also, put the resonance about 5 if you aren't sure where to start. At zero the bass isn't mixing with the sound and compensating for the treble.
> 
> I wouldn't say lower gain is the problem...



I have an HH setup in my guitar with a 3-way switch. Not sure what the specs. are on them, they are carvin c22j and c22b.



ken361 said:


> PLay at home and pretty loud and find your tone that way with adjustments and tube changes is what I do.



I'll give that a try and go from them.

It's also possible that last week we had a backup drummer who plays a lot softer than our main drummer and maybe by me having to turn down that it thinned out my sound.


----------



## Codeman

aftrshok99 said:


> It's also possible that last week we had a backup drummer who plays a lot softer than our main drummer and maybe by me having to turn down that it thinned out my sound.



Maybe, but even on the 40 watt setting on 1 I can get some wicked sounds. 

When I play for church the drummer is on my right and my amp is on my left facing towards me. Gain is on 5 and volume about 3-4 on the 40 watt setting. Then I'm mic'd up and then FOH changes everything else volume wise. 

When I switch from my PRS to my MIM strat the treble is reduced from 4 to 2.5 but everything else stays the same.


----------



## aftrshok99

Codeman said:


> Maybe, but even on the 40 watt setting on 1 I can get some wicked sounds.
> 
> When I play for church the drummer is on my right and my amp is on my left facing towards me. Gain is on 5 and volume about 3-4 on the 40 watt setting. Then I'm mic'd up and then FOH changes everything else volume wise.
> 
> When I switch from my PRS to my MIM strat the treble is reduced from 4 to 2.5 but everything else stays the same.



It's just very puzzling to me and gives me a headache...LOL

Drummer is back left of me, amp is between the drummer and me but facing me mic'd with a shure 57 to FOH.


----------



## Codeman

aftrshok99 said:


> It's just very puzzling to me and gives me a headache...LOL
> 
> Drummer is back left of me, amp is between the drummer and me but facing me mic'd with a shure 57 to FOH.



I suggest you try the stuff already mentioned, try a different guitar and also give the speakers and tubes some time to break in. Just don't give up on it. Lots of people don't like them at first, but those that were patient were greatly rewarded in the end.


----------



## jeffb

Volume. Especially pushing a g12m. 12ms of all stripes need some volume to sound full. In an open back and without opening the amp up, it's going to sound thin, small and high endy.

Half the Marshall Tone is a speaker getting pushed/volume.


----------



## BanditPanda

Codeman said:


> BanditPanda said:
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't tried this yet, but it seems like everyone else likes them except there is mixed feelings about the Mulllard RI. Also, what fits my needs might not meet yours. I encourage you to go to The Tube Store and look at the sites reviews first and then customer reviews.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not to worry. I had been reading up on the TAD 7025WA before you posted.
> The TAD EL34B-STR is based on Micky's suggestion which for sure is worth a try.
> The V2,3 & 4 for positions are still up for discussion.
> B.P.
Click to expand...


----------



## Codeman

BanditPanda said:


> Codeman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not to worry. I had been reading up on the TAD 7025WA before you posted.
> The TAD EL34B-STR is based on Micky's suggestion which for sure is worth a try.
> The V2,3 & 4 for positions are still up for discussion.
> B.P.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really curious about the Svetlana tubes. I haven't heard one bad thing about them. Everyone seems to say "Holy Crap! I got these tubes because they were cheap, but I didn't expect them to actually be good!"
> 
> Everyone seems to be comparing the Mullard RI to the ones of lore instead of taking them for what they are (a few exceptions). I've never heard a "true" Mullard so I guess I will be a control case for this little experiment.
> 
> After Christmas, I'll tell you what I think once I have time to actually install them.
Click to expand...


----------



## Codeman

BanditPanda said:


> Codeman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not to worry. I had been reading up on the TAD 7025WA before you posted.
> The TAD EL34B-STR is based on Micky's suggestion which for sure is worth a try.
> The V2,3 & 4 for positions are still up for discussion.
> B.P.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TAD EL34B-STR is one of MartyStrat54's favorite tubes and this forum has had their share of experience with them:
> 
> http://www.marshallforum.com/showthread.php?t=59770&highlight=MartyStrat54+EL34B
Click to expand...


----------



## Jethro Rocker

aftrshok99 said:


> It's funny because it's not stuck in the mud sound at all. I even have to back the treble halfway down on the guitar. My guitar cuts through the mix right now with no issues but as I said, it's just a little to much on the bright side of things. It's getting to be a little frustrating to say the least.
> 
> Here's my settings on the amp: The numbers are the what is marked around the knobs
> 
> Ch 1: Gain 4 Vol 3
> Ch 2: Gain 2 Vol 3
> 
> Treble 1
> Mid 4
> Bass 6
> Presence 0
> Resonance 0



Amp is facing you - is that on the floor or angled at you??

Which mode on each channel?? Is it Crunch on ch 1? I also think perhaps low gain may be part of it? Lower gain = lower bass and if it is on Clean mode and gain 4, that's very clean and also low gain. On Crunch mode it is low gain as well whicn is fine but I think at that volume, although fairly loud, may be too thin.

Resonance on 5 go start couldn't hurt either. What's it sound like FOH?


----------



## aftrshok99

Jethro Rocker said:


> Amp is facing you - is that on the floor or angled at you??
> 
> Which mode on each channel?? Is it Crunch on ch 1? I also think perhaps low gain may be part of it? Lower gain = lower bass and if it is on Clean mode and gain 4, that's very clean and also low gain. On Crunch mode it is low gain as well whicn is fine but I think at that volume, although fairly loud, may be too thin.
> 
> Resonance on 5 go start couldn't hurt either. What's it sound like FOH?



flat on the floor, I'm basically standing about a foot and a half above the floor on our stage.

Crunch on channel 1 is what it's on.

Ch. 2 is Lead 1

I'm not sure because I think they always have me turned down when the quieter drummer plays. I know the other guitar play has said he can't hear me in FOH but can hear my amp over the silent drummer (LOL). I think there is just a bunch of variables that are playing into what I'm hearing.

I have my own floor monitor but don't always rely on it because it sounds like crap and I'd rather just hear my amp.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

So you are well above the amp and it's not really pointed at you as you are so far above it. I was thinking if you are right in line with the cone, you would hear way more high end than if you were off axis. So that's not it. Crunch and lower gain. I dunno... a partly goofy pre tube could make it very thin.


----------



## aftrshok99

Jethro Rocker said:


> So you are well above the amp and it's not really pointed at you as you are so far above it. I was thinking if you are right in line with the cone, you would hear way more high end than if you were off axis. So that's not it. Crunch and lower gain. I dunno... a partly goofy pre tube could make it very thin.



Exactly, I'm well above it.

I'll work with it at home tonight and see if I can get it dialed in a little better, up the gain, add some resonance, etc.


----------



## MarshallDog

aftrshok99 said:


> It's funny because it's not stuck in the mud sound at all. I even have to back the treble halfway down on the guitar. My guitar cuts through the mix right now with no issues but as I said, it's just a little to much on the bright side of things. It's getting to be a little frustrating to say the least.
> 
> Here's my settings on the amp: The numbers are the what is marked around the knobs
> 
> Ch 1: Gain 4 Vol 3
> Ch 2: Gain 2 Vol 3
> 
> Treble 1
> Mid 4
> Bass 6
> Presence 0
> Resonance 0



What kind of guitar do you play through the amp? If your playing with a LP and have the tone down a bit and it's still this bright then maybe you should drop C19 to 100 pF??? Did you put a Creamback Celestion in the amp yet. Just wondering, both of these will help along with maybe Mullard or EH preamp tubes, they are both a bit darker sounding in a good way.


----------



## aftrshok99

MarshallDog said:


> What kind of guitar do you play through the amp? If your playing with a LP and have the tone down a bit and it's still this bright then maybe you should drop C19 to 100 pF??? Did you put a Creamback Celestion in the amp yet. Just wondering, both of these will help along with maybe Mullard or EH preamp tubes, they are both a bit darker sounding in a good way.



I play a Carvin Bolt+ (bolt on maple neck with maple fretboard, stainless steel frets) Alder body, string thru, dual humbucker carvin pickups (c22b and c22j).

The amp came with the creamback celestion in it. Haven't done the c19 mod just because of warranty and unsure if I want to void it...LOL


----------



## Bownse

In my den, I find amp PLACEMENT helps with the open back design. In the corner of the room with about 1' to 2' of clearance helps propagate the lows better than any other placement.


----------



## MarshallDog

aftrshok99 said:


> I play a Carvin Bolt+ (bolt on maple neck with maple fretboard, stainless steel frets) Alder body, string thru, dual humbucker carvin pickups (c22b and c22j).
> 
> The amp came with the creamback celestion in it. Haven't done the c19 mod just because of warranty and unsure if I want to void it...LOL



Interesting! You could try some darker tubes such as Mullards or EH. I really lik the JJ KT77 tubes for power. They thicken the amp up, just sounds really good to me.


----------



## Codeman

Has anyone tried to close off the DSL40C?


----------



## MarshallDog

Codeman said:


> Has anyone tried to close off the DSL40C?



I dont think its possible the way its so close in there and you sure wouldnt want to close the entire back up because it would most likely leas to overheating issues from the tubes.


----------



## Micky

MarshallDog said:


> I dont think its possible the way its so close in there and you sure wouldnt want to close the entire back up because it would most likely leas to overheating issues from the tubes.



I think the SL5 does it, but there may be vents in the top to allow the heat from the tubes to escape...


----------



## BanditPanda

aftrshok99 said:


> I play a Carvin Bolt+ (bolt on maple neck with maple fretboard, stainless steel frets) Alder body, string thru, dual humbucker carvin pickups (c22b and c22j).
> The amp came with the creamback celestion in it. Haven't done the c19 mod just because of warranty and unsure if I want to void it...LOL


I feel for ya bud. I'll be getting my DSL40CV on Tuesday and its my first Marshall. Previously playing Tele's thru a Blues Deluxe. Always had trouble with the highs but those are single coils. You are experiencing this with Humbuckers which are basically a dark p/u. Oddly enuff the Marshall has always been known as a bright amp. The first thing I did was take out the stock Fender speaker and put in a WGS ET65. But you already have the Creamback in there and that should be fine for cutting down on some of the highs. Next you've got to go the tube route and take suggestions on actually where the highs are being created. The maple neck and fret board do produce a higher frequency when compared to Mahogany / Ebony/Rosewood for example but I think not to the extent of your complaint Pick Ups and speakers are righteous. So where are the highs coming from. What's left ? Preamp tubes and Power Tubes.
I'm pretty sure I'll be facing the same problems as you this coming week especially with my Teles. When you find a solution let us know.
B.P.


----------



## MarshallDog

Micky said:


> I think the SL5 does it, but there may be vents in the top to allow the heat from the tubes to escape...



I believe so and in the DSL40C, its so tight in there I think it would be really tough to build a small box just around the speaker and then it may be so small with such little physical volume it might sound like crap anyway. 

I really believe if one wants to increase the bottom end of this little beast, KT77's will do the job just fine. That has been my experience...

You put 6550's in your if I remember correctly and is that what you experienced also?? They are supposed to have more bottom end based on what I have read.


----------



## BanditPanda

BanditPanda said:


> The maple neck and fret board do produce a higher frequency when compared to Mahogany / Ebony/Rosewood for example but I think not to the extent of your complaint Pick Ups and speakers are righteous. B.P.


 
Also have read that Ash wood, like your body, is also a source of high frequency but again I would think not to the extent of the problem which you are experiencing.
B.P.


----------



## Rahlstin

This amp loves KT77's


----------



## Codeman

Rahlstin said:


> This amp loves KT77's



Are the Golden Lions worth the extra $ or would the el cheapo JJ's be good enough?


----------



## MarshallDog

Rahlstin said:


> This amp loves KT77's



Just curious, where do you run your base nod resonance knobs at?


----------



## aftrshok99

MarshallDog said:


> Interesting! You could try some darker tubes such as Mullards or EH. I really lik the JJ KT77 tubes for power. They thicken the amp up, just sounds really good to me.



I might do that sometime after the holidays.



BanditPanda said:


> I feel for ya bud. I'll be getting my DSL40CV on Tuesday and its my first Marshall. Previously playing Tele's thru a Blues Deluxe. Always had trouble with the highs but those are single coils. You are experiencing this with Humbuckers which are basically a dark p/u. Oddly enuff the Marshall has always been known as a bright amp. The first thing I did was take out the stock Fender speaker and put in a WGS ET65. But you already have the Creamback in there and that should be fine for cutting down on some of the highs. Next you've got to go the tube route and take suggestions on actually where the highs are being created. The maple neck and fret board do produce a higher frequency when compared to Mahogany / Ebony/Rosewood for example but I think not to the extent of your complaint Pick Ups and speakers are righteous. So where are the highs coming from. What's left ? Preamp tubes and Power Tubes.
> I'm pretty sure I'll be facing the same problems as you this coming week especially with my Teles. When you find a solution let us know.
> B.P.



I tried setting the treble on 3, resonance on 5, bass on 6 and mids on 4 on both the crunch channel set at 7 gain 3 vol and the lead 1 set on 5 gain 3 vol. with the amp about 2 feet from the back wall yesterday. It was a little better but still very bright (at least what I consider to be bright). It just makes the lead 1 at those settings sound like fizzy and I don't like that.

I also experimented with using my fender strat, rosewood fretboard, that is loaded with the a JB Jr. and a Little '59 and as I figured would be the case. The fender was a lot warmer sounding then my Carvin. That Carvin is just a bright ass guitar with this amp. I never liked the Carvin pickups anyway so I'm swapping those out sometime soon and go from there.

Last night at our Christmas service I had to move my amp to another spot and that put it away from a back wall. I had to drop the treble down to 1 and completely drop the resonance to 0 or it was all highs. But I also had to run in 20 Watt mode because it was just to loud to have the amp where it was. I don't have an ideal situation at church and it just makes it tough to get the sound I want.


----------



## ken361

I like trb at 3 and presence at 3 or so maybe it rocks with my Les Paul. I do have some warmer tubes in to help some. I would check the bias it might be too hot. Those stock JJ preamp tubes suck anyways my strat can be bright but it has ceramic pickups in, replace those it will kill!


----------



## aftrshok99

Codeman said:


> Are the Golden Lions worth the extra $ or would the el cheapo JJ's be good enough?



I'm curious about this too.


----------



## Lamaar

Hi, what's the best or most common tube to place in the V4? Its hard to find an answer in those 169 pages 
Putting a Tung Sol 12ax7V1 in the V1 and JJ 12ax7 in V2 and V3, but dont know what to put in PI.

ty


----------



## Lamaar

By the way, this a nice link about PI, saying its the most important tube in the pre amp section, its a nice and really interesting piece to read.

http://www.recycledsound.net/14_Phase_Inverter.pdf


----------



## Oldpunk

I'd beg to differ, the most important is V1, everything runs through it.


----------



## Micky

I have a tendency to agree with OldPunk, as the the PI is part of the power section...


----------



## ken361

Lamaar said:


> Hi, what's the best or most common tube to place in the V4? Its hard to find an answer in those 169 pages  work as a good v1 v2 v4
> Putting a Tung Sol 12ax7V1 in the V1 and JJ 12ax7 in V2 and V3, but dont know what to put in PI.
> 
> ty



Get a Baldwin Slyvania off ebay or 2  great PI tubes I have about 10 diff tubes I tried most new production and it can be bright were the older tubes are warmer and last for years!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/371505629995?ul_noapp=true&chn=ps&lpid=82
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-12ax7-S...9a5dd1&pid=100338&rk=5&rkt=30&sd=371505629995


----------



## ken361

All sections of the preamp will be affected were you put the tubes I done it mannnny times! if it didnt matter I would use the stock ones! 
!


----------



## Jethro Rocker

The effects of V2 will be affected by what is in V1. If I had a bright lower gain tube in V1, it would affect V2. If I had a fairly dark sounding tube there, the V1 characteristics would trickle down as it were to the V2 negating some of yhe V2 properties. That's why many pay most attention to V1. 
I have an RFT in V1 a fairly smooth, less bright tube followed by a Raytheon Black plate, a neutral sounding tube. This keeps the same sort of tone characteristics down the line.
The PI tube should be fairly robust. I agree that some of the NOS GE, Sylvania, RCA etc make excellent PI tubes. For current tubes, maybe look at a Svetlana or Ruby or Mesa SP.


----------



## Codeman

Could someone tell me why a choke is installed in the DSL40C and what it does/what it is?


----------



## MarshallDog

Codeman said:


> Could someone tell me why a choke is installed in the DSL40C and what it does/what it is?



There is no "choke" installed on a stock DSL40C, just a large resistor which is much cheaper than an actual choke. Here is what a choke is and does:

http://www.aikenamps.com/index.php/chokes-explained


----------



## Codeman

MarshallDog said:


> There is no "choke" installed on a stock DSL40C, just a large resistor which is much cheaper than an actual choke. Here is what a choke is and does:
> 
> http://www.aikenamps.com/index.php/chokes-explained



Sorry, I wasn't very clear on my question. I knew the DSL40C didn't come stock with one, but I saw people talking about putting chokes on it afterwards.

So, this link talks about hum, but it means hiss right? So instead of adding a noise gate one could add a choke?


----------



## Micky

Codeman said:


> Sorry, I wasn't very clear on my question. I knew the DSL40C didn't come stock with one, but I saw people talking about putting chokes on it afterwards.
> 
> So, this link talks about hum, but it means hiss right? So instead of adding a noise gate one could add a choke?



No. It talks about hum, and it means hum. It talks about filtering the AC out of the hi-voltage electricity that goes to the tubes.

It talks about instead of just putting a resistor inline that may drop the voltage or current in the circuit, that an inductor (choke) in the circuit will filter out more residual AC and provide a cleaner voltage to the tubes with less sag (voltage drop).


----------



## Lamaar

I think I saw here somewhere that the Texas heat costs around $80,- in the VS (thats 73,- euro).
If you would by them here in europe the Texas heat cost you $130,-
The celestion 70/80 $87,- and a creamback $152,- 
Celestion vintage 30 $130,-
Its a big difference, would be great if you could buy a Texas heat for 80,- Euro over here.
So you have to think twice before you buy some speakers with these prices.


----------



## Micky

Location plays a big part.

If the JCM 800 was made in the USA, it would probably cost $800...


----------



## BanditPanda

Micky said:


> No. It talks about hum, and it means hum. It talks about filtering the AC out of the hi-voltage electricity that goes to the tubes.
> It talks about instead of just putting a resistor inline that may drop the voltage or current in the circuit, that an inductor (choke) in the circuit will filter out more residual AC and provide a cleaner voltage to the tubes with less sag (voltage drop).



What is this going to do for your tone? Is the Marshall " sound : enhanced by the installation of a choke?
B.P.


----------



## BanditPanda

Lamaar said:


> I think I saw here somewhere that the Texas heat costs around $80,- in the VS (thats 73,- euro).
> If you would by them here in europe the Texas heat cost you $130,-
> The celestion 70/80 $87,- and a creamback $152,-
> Celestion vintage 30 $130,-
> Its a big difference, would be great if you could buy a Texas heat for 80,- Euro over here.
> So you have to think twice before you buy some speakers with these prices.



I run into the same problem with Italian made clothes!! lol


----------



## MarshallDog

BanditPanda said:


> What is this going to do for your tone? Is the Marshall " sound : enhanced by the installation of a choke?
> B.P.



Well, let's put it this way, every older vintage awesome sounding Marshall amp out there that I know of has a real choke so that says it all. I think Marshall started to cheapen up the cost of their amps by putting in a 5 cent resistor. Also, every boutique amp I have seen has a real choke. I put one in the JVM 410H I have one in my current DSL40C and love it...


----------



## Oldpunk

MarshallDog said:


> Well, let's put it this way, every older vintage awesome sounding Marshall amp out there that I know of has a real choke so that says it all. I think Marshall started to cheapen up the cost of their amps by putting in a 5 cent resistor. Also, every boutique amp I have seen has a real choke. I put one in the JVM 410H I have one in my current DSL40C and love it...



This is very interesting and makes me wanna install one.


----------



## Woods

^Been there, done that. Don't be scared, do it!




BanditPanda said:


> What is this going to do for your tone? Is the Marshall " sound : enhanced by the installation of a choke?
> B.P.



It increases, and tightens the bass response, and adds a 'tube like fluidity' to the sound.


----------



## Micky

BanditPanda said:


> What is this going to do for your tone? Is the Marshall " sound : enhanced by the installation of a choke?
> B.P.



Way earlier in this thread I installed one.
I admitted then, and I will still admit now, the difference is very subtle.
Unless you know what to listen for, it is difficult at best to discern the difference.

But it does put this amp in a higher class of tone...


----------



## MarshallDog

Micky said:


> Way earlier in this thread I installed one.
> I admitted then, and I will still admit now, the difference is very subtle.
> Unless you know what to listen for, it is difficult at best to discern the difference.
> 
> But it does put this amp in a higher class of tone...



I second this statement...


----------



## IRG

Fairly ignorant on the matters of adding a choke, how much would this cost to do? Likely I'd have someone I know do this, and not me. Also, are Mercury Magnetics components worth adding to this amp?


----------



## MarshallDog

IRG said:


> Fairly ignorant on the matters of adding a choke, how much would this cost to do? Likely I'd have someone I know do this, and not me. Also, are Mercury Magnetics components worth adding to this amp?



I would use the Classic Tone 3 HY choke. It's designed after the vintage Marshall ones and only cost me 31.00 shipped. IMO they are just as good if not better than the MMs and cost a lot less. Not sure what a Tech would charge seeing as the PCB should be removed to make sure none of the drill filings get left on the board as new holes need to be drilled. Personally, I wouldn't do it for less than 100.00 bucks plus the choke. It's really easy to do if you have soldering skills.


----------



## IRG

MarshallDog said:


> I would use the Classic Tone 3 HY choke. It's designed after the vintage Marshall ones and only cost me 31.00 shipped. IMO they are just as good if not better than the MMs and cost a lot less. Not sure what a Tech would charge seeing as the PCB should be removed to make sure none of the drill filings get left on the board as new holes need to be drilled. Personally, I wouldn't do it for less than 100.00 bucks plus the choke. It's really easy to do if you have soldering skills.



OK, thanks. Will definitely look into this after the holiday.


----------



## jlinde1973

Hello everybody. Bought me a dsl40c a while back. I'm very happy with the amp other than the brightness and muddiness on lead 2. I've performed the c19 mod and lowered the 470p to 200p. Made a world of difference. Also I replaced the horrible 70/80 speaker with a budda phat 12. I really love the amp now. Nice cleans and great crunch on lead 1. But I'm not totally happy with lead 2. It seems real muddy compared to lead 1. I read somewhere way back on this thread(I believe) that channel 2 engages another bypass cap for more gain(maybe c34)...can anybody give me advise for cleaning up lead 2 a little bit...so it sounds like lead 1 but a touch more gain and not so muddy?? Maybe clipping that bypass cap to tame the gain a little bit, or something similar? Thanks for your help.


----------



## BanditPanda

Micky said:


> Way earlier in this thread I installed one.
> I admitted then, and I will still admit now, the difference is very subtle.
> Unless you know what to listen for, it is difficult at best to discern the difference.But it does put this amp in a higher class of tone...



Choke may then be more for audiophiles. ( Not that there is anything wrong with that ! lol )
The audience certainly will not hear any difference in your amplified sound and neither will your band mates.
I'm thinking subtlety and Marshall don't belong in the same sentence lol.
YMMV

B.P.


----------



## aftrshok99

Well crap!!! I was just trying some different things with my pedal board and was using my amp in triode mode when all of the sudden it got a little louder then made a click noise and quit producing any sound on any channel. Same when I switch it to pentode mode, nothing....Any thoughts? Blown power tube or pre-amp tube? Wasn't on more than 10 minutes at a low volume.

I don't have any spare tubes to troubleshoot with. The closest service center is over 2 hours away. I'll get in touch with sweetwater and go from there, they'll either send me new tubes or send me a new amp.

Looks like one of the power tubes isn't lit up.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

On warranty, let them deal with it. Likely power tubes but who knows??


----------



## aftrshok99

Jethro Rocker said:


> On warranty, let them deal with it. Likely power tubes but who knows??



Looks that way.....good thing I didn't do any mods to it....LOL


----------



## Micky

Sure it is the amp? Try plugging in direct, also try direct into the FX return...


----------



## aftrshok99

Micky said:


> Sure it is the amp? Try plugging in direct, also try direct into the FX return...



Those were the first two things I did.


----------



## aftrshok99

Just something else I was checking for the heck of it was the speaker Ohm's and noticed that when I tested it, it came back 0.6 ohms on my fluke multimeter but if I unhooked the speaker cable and the tested speaker showed 13.2 ohms which is closer to the 16 ohm spec on the speaker. Could something also be wrong on the part of the amp that speaker cable plugs in to? I even tried another speaker cable and got the same low reading.


----------



## Micky

No, you are reading the winding on the OT if you measure it still connected...

I know it sucks, but you have a warranty, use it.

If you have already taken the chassis out, check the fuses. There are a few...
Could be as simple as a blown power tube. It happens...


----------



## jlinde1973

Anybody out there able to tame the gain and muddiness on the red 2 channel?


----------



## ken361

run the gain at around 3 and keep the bass low also it works great for me


----------



## Micky

jlinde1973 said:


> Anybody out there able to tame the gain and muddiness on the red 2 channel?



I agree.
I get great Rush/Alex Liefson tone with the gain low about 2/3 and the resonance the same,


----------



## jlinde1973

I agree. The gain must be low on red channel. I can nail rush 2112 perfectly on red 1 with volume up at 3, but i prefer the bass pretty high, I was hoping to find a simple mod for red 2 to lower the bass frequency slightly. I'm not the greatest at reading schematics, but it appears that the c34 cap is introduced on red 2 off of the v2b. Im wondering if that cap is responsible for the eXtra gain and bass thats introduced on red 2. Has anybody tried lowering cathode bypass cap values to tighten the bass up?


----------



## IRG

WHen I use the Lead2 channel, I'm mostly using my PRS SE Clint Lowerly, in drop C tuning, so it's pretty heavy tone right there. I agree on keeping the bass low too, I also have the mids fairly scooped, midrange switch cut turned on. Treble not too high either, maybe 4. I have the gain though set higher, maybe 5-6, but volume cut to 3-4, 20w mode more often than not (for home use). It is a pretty heavy tone I'm getting, and not muddy at all. Still have the stock pickups in it, fairly high output, I think ceramic HF/VBS combo in it. That helps reduce the flub you might be getting otherwise.


----------



## ken361

Should note is were your playing because the bass I can use more at one house opposed to another location with less bass.


----------



## IRG

ken361 said:


> Should note is were your playing because the bass I can use more at one house opposed to another location with less bass.



Agree 100%. Bass acoustics will vary widely based on the room, and the layout and size. I have a damn electric baseboard heater in my room, and the damn thing rattles like mad when I have the bass up at all. Trying to find some vibration mounts for the thing. I feel like wrapping up the whole heater in bubble wrap, but I'm sure that'd be a fire hazzard


----------



## aftrshok99

Micky said:


> No, you are reading the winding on the OT if you measure it still connected...
> 
> I know it sucks, but you have a warranty, use it.
> 
> If you have already taken the chassis out, check the fuses. There are a few...
> Could be as simple as a blown power tube. It happens...



Ok, wasn't sure about the reading.

Sweetwater is shipping me out a new amp today and I'll send mine back when I receive the new one.

It'll be interesting to see if the new one sounds any different then my current one.


----------



## jlinde1973

Anybody at all??...I guess people aren't as polite on this forum....it is dsl40c mod forum isn't it?


----------



## Codeman

jlinde1973 said:


> Anybody at all??...I guess people aren't as polite on this forum....it is dsl40c mod forum isn't it?



If nobody answered it just means the people that saw your post might not have tried that yet. It is also Christmas Eve. Patience is a virtue.


----------



## Micky

jlinde1973 said:


> Anybody at all??...I guess people aren't as polite on this forum....it is dsl40c mod forum isn't it?



What was the question?


----------



## Micky

jlinde1973 said:


> I agree. The gain must be low on red channel. I can nail rush 2112 perfectly on red 1 with volume up at 3, but i prefer the bass pretty high, I was hoping to find a simple mod for red 2 to lower the bass frequency slightly. I'm not the greatest at reading schematics, but it appears that the c34 cap is introduced on red 2 off of the v2b. Im wondering if that cap is responsible for the eXtra gain and bass thats introduced on red 2. Has anybody tried lowering cathode bypass cap values to tighten the bass up?



Ah, I see now. I think that is a question for Mickey, not me.

I will see if I can decipher the schem...


----------



## Len

jlinde1973 said:


> I agree. The gain must be low on red channel. I can nail rush 2112 perfectly on red 1 with volume up at 3, but i prefer the bass pretty high, I was hoping to find a simple mod for red 2 to lower the bass frequency slightly. I'm not the greatest at reading schematics, but it appears that the c34 cap is introduced on red 2 off of the v2b. Im wondering if that cap is responsible for the eXtra gain and bass thats introduced on red 2. Has anybody tried lowering cathode bypass cap values to tighten the bass up?



All I can say is that after reading every DSL40 mod site I could find that I never ran across a mod like you're looking for. Most folk just use the classic channel and write off the ultra channel. I personally live on the ultra lead 1 channel for classic and modern rock stuff.


----------



## MarshallDog

jlinde1973 said:


> Anybody at all??...I guess people aren't as polite on this forum....it is dsl40c mod forum isn't it?



I would like to know the same also....


----------



## Micky

jlinde1973 said:


> Anybody at all??...I guess people aren't as polite on this forum....it is dsl40c mod forum isn't it?



This post kinda bothered me, as this really has nothing to do with polite.

In general, people who contribute to this thread are some of the most polite, caring and knowledgable people on the MF. Unfortunately, as they all generally have lives, jobs, friends, family and gigs, sometimes there is not much time left for the MF. To see how much they have contributed already is a testament to that statement, as this thread is one of the major places to find ANYWHERE on the Internet. It is tops in Google searches, and I receive PM's daily from people who are not members (as well as members) here seeking info and advice.

And that is the key - It is an INFORMATION thread, not just for mods. That is why it may be so popular, as there is quite a collection of contributors here, from gigging musicians all the way to adolescent teenagers to experienced technicians. All who have contributed here take the time from their personal lives, just to help anonymous people like you and I with things relative to this amplifier. If you gain any insight at all from this thread you should consider yourself lucky, as there are many sites that are not nearly this helpful.

But to answer your question (I myself am taking time away from my family and friends on this Christmas morning...) I feel that you may have better luch changing C20, which is much further up the gain path than C34. I believe C34 is a simple, very low value (1nf) bypass cap, which does not play a big part in shaping the tone. It may play a bigger part in eliminating oscillation, as it is well after the V2 gain stages.

All I can really suggest is that you tinker with the values and then let us know here what you have found. As this is a subject that has not been discussed here much I don't think any of the contributors here have much more to say about it. After all, this thread is all about workbench experimentation, and I couldn't think of a better contributor about this particular subject than YOU.

The key is to be patient. When you take a deliberate, dedicated approach to a problem there is bound to be a reward, please just be patient enough for it to surface.

And may everyone here who reads this post have a happy and safe holiday season, from the bottom of my heart.


----------



## BanditPanda

Micky said:


> And may everyone here who reads this post have a happy and safe holiday season, from the bottom of my heart.


 
Well said Micky and a big heart it is !!

All the best to you and yours.
B.P.


----------



## RyanV

Santa brought me a gift visa with enough dough for a wgs speaker and a nifty hat. 

After painstakingly reading the specs and their tone chart I decided to go ahead and try an HM75 in my DSL40. I was convinced on the Veteran 30 but I just didnt feel like 60 watts would be a strong enough speaker for the noise I put through that beast. I like the breakup in the amp and not the speaker..... 

Hopefully it shows up before next Fridays gig. I will report back!


----------



## jlinde1973

Micky said:


> This post kinda bothered me, as this really has nothing to do with polite.
> 
> In general, people who contribute to this thread are some of the most polite, caring and knowledgable people on the MF. Unfortunately, as they all generally have lives, jobs, friends, family and gigs, sometimes there is not much time left for the MF. To see how much they have contributed already is a testament to that statement, as this thread is one of the major places to find ANYWHERE on the Internet. It is tops in Google searches, and I receive PM's daily from people who are not members (as well as members) here seeking info and advice.
> 
> And that is the key - It is an INFORMATION thread, not just for mods. That is why it may be so popular, as there is quite a collection of contributors here, from gigging musicians all the way to adolescent teenagers to experienced technicians. All who have contributed here take the time from their personal lives, just to help anonymous people like you and I with things relative to this amplifier. If you gain any insight at all from this thread you should consider yourself lucky, as there are many sites that are not nearly this helpful.
> 
> But to answer your question (I myself am taking time away from my family and friends on this Christmas morning...) I feel that you may have better luch changing C20, which is much further up the gain path than C34. I believe C34 is a simple, very low value (1nf) bypass cap, which does not play a big part in shaping the tone. It may play a bigger part in eliminating oscillation, as it is well after the V2 gain stages.
> 
> All I can really suggest is that you tinker with the values and then let us know here what you have found. As this is a subject that has not been discussed here much I don't think any of the contributors here have much more to say about it. After all, this thread is all about workbench experimentation, and I couldn't think of a better contributor about this particular subject than YOU.
> 
> The key is to be patient. When you take a deliberate, dedicated approach to a problem there is bound to be a reward, please just be patient enough for it to surface.
> 
> And may everyone here who reads this post have a happy and safe holiday season, from the bottom of my heart.



Thanks for the help micky. I will dink with the cap values to see if the lead 2 changes to my liking. And sorry if my post came off the wrong way. You seem very knowledgeable with the dsl circuit. I appreciate it. Happy holidays.


----------



## ToneWarrior

BanditPanda said:


> What is this going to do for your tone? Is the Marshall " sound : enhanced by the installation of a choke?
> B.P.



When I had my DSL40C I installed a choke because I read that it acts as a shock absorber for the transformer and helps prevent it from failing. I was initially curious because the older amps like JCM 800 and 900, JMP's etc. had them but I didn't hear much of a difference in tone.


----------



## aftrshok99

Would these be any good in my dsl40sct? Mesa/Boogie EL-34 GC STR 447 Duet matched power tubes or these Electro-Harmonix Mullard EL34 Power Tube (Russian).

Sweetwater said they would change power tubes in my new amp before shipping it if I wanted but they don't have a lot to choose from.


----------



## Micky

Sure, either will work great.

As long as they test them in the amp before they ship it...


----------



## aftrshok99

Micky said:


> Sure, either will work great.
> 
> As long as they test them in the amp before they ship it...



Would they just be checking to make sure they aren't defective? Being my luck they'd just ship them separate and then I'd have to mess with them.


----------



## Codeman

Hey guys, so here is the review of my mods:

1. Celestion G12H75 Creamback

This was the first modification I made to the amp so it was tested with stock tubes. I was hoping for a tight, audible and controllable bass, smooth distortion, and reduced treble. This speaker gave me what I was looking for but also seemed to widen the sound and produce a more even response. Maybe even slightly scooping the mids. 

2. Preamp Tubes:

V1: TAD 7025WA
V2: Mullard 12AX7RI 
V3 : Svetlana 12AX7 
V4: Svetlana 12AX7 

I did not "roll" the tubes, but instead went on recommendation and installed the tubes all at once. First, I noticed that the gain reduced from the stock JJ's and the sound was clearer and more detailed. After some eq time, I found that the tone stack was more responsive to adjustments and easier to find different tones.

The clean channel gained headroom while the lead 2 became usable.

3. Power

I installed TAD EL34B-STR and biased them for 36mV@466v 

The biggest difference the new power tubes made was adding warm and thick mids and bass. As I said before the speaker is a bit scooped sounding, so this was a welcome addition.

In the end, the amp is less harsh, less bright, with warm mids and tight and loud bass. This is exactly what I was looking for and after $500 for the amp and $300 in upgrades this is the best amp I've ever played. I'm awestruck at how much difference this has made. Thanks to all who helped with this project!


----------



## FCN

I have had my DSL40C w/creamback for about a year now and I rarely play it. I have been using a modeling rig or EVH 5150II 50 watt. However, I picked up a post Christmas Les Paul Studio Deluxe and decided to plug in... 

I did the c19 mod a couple of hours ago because the shrill on the Ultra 1 channel was just to much. I run the gain on the classic on 10 and Ultra on 2. Now I can share the eq without issue and I love the sound of this amp. Easy mod with really a lot of results... IMHO.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Agreed. Same boat. Worked for me, well. Welcome to the club! Don't be a stranger!! Glad you like your Marshall.


----------



## FCN

Jethro Rocker said:


> Agreed. Same boat. Worked for me, well. Welcome to the club! Don't be a stranger!! Glad you like your Marshall.



Thanks JR... I am selling my Axe-FX... I got tired of messing with it and just want to play... plus, as an old guy hitting 50, I can't get past the amp in the room... it's what I grew up with. I just wish I had my JCM 800 or MOSFET Lead 100 from the 80's. LOL

Plus, I have a whole house to myself now and I can crank the amps until my ears bleed!


----------



## Lamaar

After 10 days I boxed mine up and asked the store to pick it up (30 days return policy) its not what I'm looking for and I dont think this amp will last for many years, its not solid enough, cheap build, iffy electronics inside.
I went for a JVM 215c instead.


----------



## Woods

^What are you talking about man? This is complete hogwash. The old DSL's are 'many years old' and they are just fine. These, if anything are better versions; Don't crap on something just because it wasn't your flavor, and you got sucked into the old 'well it WAS made in Vietnam' eye roll conversation. If it's not solid enough, you may need to re-think how you handle your gear. Not much will survive your 'run it over with my 4x4 lifted on 42" boggers test'...


----------



## MarshallDog

Woods said:


> ^What are you talking about man? This is complete hogwash. The old DSL's are 'many years old' and they are just fine. These, if anything are better versions; Don't crap on something just because it wasn't your flavor, and you got sucked into the old 'well it WAS made in Vietnam' eye roll conversation. If it's not solid enough, you may need to re-think how you handle your gear. Not much will survive your 'run it over with my 4x4 lifted on 42" boggers test'...



I agree! I had a JVM 410H and when you compared the build and the electronics quality they looked almost identical, the chassis was the same along with the wiring, pots and tube sockets.


----------



## Woods

I tell ya, some peoples entitled kids...


----------



## Bownse

micky said:


> this post kinda bothered me, as this really has nothing to do with polite.
> 
> In general, people who contribute to this thread are some of the most polite, caring and knowledgable people on the mf. Unfortunately, as they all generally have lives, jobs, friends, family and gigs, sometimes there is not much time left for the mf. To see how much they have contributed already is a testament to that statement, as this thread is one of the major places to find anywhere on the internet. It is tops in google searches, and i receive pm's daily from people who are not members (as well as members) here seeking info and advice.
> 
> And that is the key - it is an information thread, not just for mods. That is why it may be so popular, as there is quite a collection of contributors here, from gigging musicians all the way to adolescent teenagers to experienced technicians. All who have contributed here take the time from their personal lives, just to help anonymous people like you and i with things relative to this amplifier. If you gain any insight at all from this thread you should consider yourself lucky, as there are many sites that are not nearly this helpful.
> 
> But to answer your question (i myself am taking time away from my family and friends on this christmas morning...) i feel that you may have better luch changing c20, which is much further up the gain path than c34. I believe c34 is a simple, very low value (1nf) bypass cap, which does not play a big part in shaping the tone. It may play a bigger part in eliminating oscillation, as it is well after the v2 gain stages.
> 
> All i can really suggest is that you tinker with the values and then let us know here what you have found. As this is a subject that has not been discussed here much i don't think any of the contributors here have much more to say about it. After all, this thread is all about workbench experimentation, and i couldn't think of a better contributor about this particular subject than you.
> 
> The key is to be patient. When you take a deliberate, dedicated approach to a problem there is bound to be a reward, please just be patient enough for it to surface.
> 
> And may everyone here who reads this post have a happy and safe holiday season, from the bottom of my heart.



like button pressed


----------



## ken361

Lamaar said:


> After 10 days I boxed mine up and asked the store to pick it up (30 days return policy) its not what I'm looking for and I dont think this amp will last for many years, its not solid enough, cheap build, iffy electronics inside.
> I went for a JVM 215c instead.



My cheap amp 40c lasted a year now and your cheap JVM which I had was in the shop after 6 weeks for the loop not working! haha


----------



## RyanV

Hey I was thinking about swapping out...if nothing else JUST the V1 to see what happens... Already have new TAD EL34's in it. I've actually got a few questionable pre tubes that came from various places that test ok on the Sencore which I'm going to try but I was aldso looking at these two guys: 

This JJ

Or this TAD

The TAD has a couple of crappy reviews but they're a couple years old now and who knows. 

The ones I'm going to try from my pile are: 

A Russian 12AX7EH (Electro Harmonix)
A Sovtek 12AX7WXT+

I have a non-labeled tube that looks like a 12AX7 and tests fine but is not actually labeled...I'm tempted to try it just for S&G's..

Any thoughts on any of the above?


----------



## MarshallDog

RyanV said:


> Hey I was thinking about swapping out...if nothing else JUST the V1 to see what happens... Already have new TAD EL34's in it. I've actually got a few questionable pre tubes that came from various places that test ok on the Sencore which I'm going to try but I was aldso looking at these two guys:
> 
> This JJ
> 
> Or this TAD
> 
> The TAD has a couple of crappy reviews but they're a couple years old now and who knows.
> 
> The ones I'm going to try from my pile are:
> 
> A Russian 12AX7EH (Electro Harmonix)
> A Sovtek 12AX7WXT+
> 
> I have a non-labeled tube that looks like a 12AX7 and tests fine but is not actually labeled...I'm tempted to try it just for S&G's..
> 
> Any thoughts on any of the above?



What type of tone change are you looking for? If you want more compression then try the JJ, if you want less compression and coloring the Tube Store 7025 is amazing. I use then in all position on my Orange Rockerverb MKII 1X12 and my DSL40C. Makes them less compressed, less fizzy and a bit more vintage sounding and the gain channels sound very crunchy compared to many, many, many other tubes I have tried. The EH is a nice smooth well balanced tube and is probably my second favorite, a bit more compression but not boomy and very well balanced, not ear piercing highs at all and very low noise floor in the DSL40C


----------



## RyanV

Well, The highs killed me at first, though with the speaker change I'm doing that is going to go away quite a bit. I found the gain to be a bit flubby at times. I tend to roll the resonance back quite a bit, even with the Bass around 6. Otherwise it gets ugly. 

I did the C19 mod which helped the Ultra channel. 

My target goal is smooth with a nice tight low end and good midrange punch.


----------



## MarshallDog

RyanV said:


> Well, The highs killed me at first, though with the speaker change I'm doing that is going to go away quite a bit. I found the gain to be a bit flubby at times. I tend to roll the resonance back quite a bit, even with the Bass around 6. Otherwise it gets ugly.
> 
> I did the C19 mod which helped the Ultra channel.
> 
> My target goal is smooth with a nice tight low end and good midrange punch.



Yes, I keep my resonance rolled back also for the same reason. Try some Svetlana EL34's, beautiful mids, tight low end and put some Tube Store 7025's in here, they are quickly becoming my go to 12AX& and they have a 6 month warranty.,


----------



## Xt660

hi. i swiched to a celestion vintage 30 speaker in my Dsl 40 and it makes a better sound,


----------



## RyanV

MarshallDog said:


> Yes, I keep my resonance rolled back also for the same reason. Try some Svetlana EL34's, beautiful mids, tight low end and put some Tube Store 7025's in here, they are quickly becoming my go to 12AX& and they have a 6 month warranty.,



You mean the TAD 7025 I listed? 

I just put brand new TAD EL34s in it so I won't be changing those soon. They did improve what I already had, so that's good. 

I think getting rid of that Seventy 80 will be the biggest best change I can make. I'll know later this week when my HM75 comes from WGS...

What is happening is I'm a blues/rock guy who is getting into more shreddery stuff...like melodic metal and some of the great players like Vai (who I've always loved) and Kiko Louriero and guys like that... So I'm making my sound a bit more modern than it has been. less of the chimey highs and more of the nice smooth puunch.


----------



## RyanV

Oh wait, you must mean this one: http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/12AX7-ECC83-Tube-Types/Preferred-Series-7025-12AX7

That is expensive as hell!


----------



## oachs83

RyanV said:


> Hey I was thinking about swapping out...if nothing else JUST the V1 to see what happens... Already have new TAD EL34's in it. I've actually got a few questionable pre tubes that came from various places that test ok on the Sencore which I'm going to try but I was aldso looking at these two guys:



I threw a tube store preferred series 7025/12Ax7 in the V1, a Tungsol 12Ax7 in V2 and V4 and kept V3 stock. It really cleared up the notes and seems to break up/ get crunchy easier. Cleans are still great I have had these for about a year and still very happy with the tone I have. Originally I had a bit of a low noise when amp was at idle almost like if you cracked your car window a 1/4" that inconsistent wind noise and rolling in these tubes really quiet the amp up. Experiment and remember to have a consistent bias, have fun


----------



## MarshallDog

RyanV said:


> Oh wait, you must mean this one: http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/12AX7-ECC83-Tube-Types/Preferred-Series-7025-12AX7
> 
> That is expensive as hell!



Yes, correct but one hell of a tube...

Les chimmy and smooth is where these tubes live but have the gain if you turn up the gain...IMO.


----------



## bad565ss

I got my DSL 40c from Sweetwater with the creamback speaker upgrade in
September of last year. I've been more or less happy with the amp in stock form. 
Today, after reading much of this thread, I changed out the ECC83 tubes from V1 and V4 
for some Sovtek 12AX7's I had laying around.
This thing sounds great!
Gain is much easier to manage and more balance between the channels.
Considering the C19 mod but this thing is sounding pretty good to me now.
Hmmmmm...........


----------



## Bownse

I'd hold off on the C19 clip since the Creamback does more along those lines that C19 does. Together, they might send you into the mud.


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

For those of you who swapped out your C19 caps with different values, what ones do you prefer? Also, what voltage should it be rated at? Thanks guys.


----------



## MarshallDog

Greatwhitenorth said:


> For those of you who swapped out your C19 caps with different values, what ones do you prefer? Also, what voltage should it be rated at? Thanks guys.



I have tried many and it seems I have settled on a 100pF but I might try a 120pF cap. As for voltage Ill have to check the labels but if I remember correctly anything over 100 volts will be fine.


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

Thanks MD. Any specific type or is ceramic fine?


----------



## Woods

Greatwhitenorth said:


> For those of you who swapped out your C19 caps with different values, what ones do you prefer? Also, what voltage should it be rated at? Thanks guys.



Silver mica between 100-180pf. Depending on your rig. I have 120 because it was convenient and sounds good with My SG with P-90 and Tele. (read bright) Not in too big of a hurry to change it. I had a 68 in there it was still a little muddy. 100 was on the verge, 220 was too bright. 150-180 I could easily see with a dark sounding axe. 470pf I believe is stock; voltage rating is what it is with the mica I've dealt with. Definitely *not* a huge factor in a low voltage tone circuit. I clipped the capacitor as high as I could and soldered to the legs left behind in the board because of the fact everything is damn near micro-soldered. Plus I'm too lazy to pull the board every time I want to change a value... Get some ceramic versions of the same pf rating and see if you like the sound of them. They have a bit more grit; stock is silver mica.


----------



## Micky

Woods said:


> Silver mica between 100-180pf. Depending on your rig. I have 120 because it was convenient and sounds good with My SG with P-90 and Tele. (read bright) Not in too big of a hurry to change it. I had a 68 in there it was still a little muddy. 100 was on the verge, 220 was too bright. 150-180 I could easily see with a dark sounding axe. 470pf I believe is stock; voltage rating is what it is with the mica I've dealt with. Definitely *not* a huge factor in a low voltage tone circuit. I clipped the capacitor as high as I could and soldered to the legs left behind in the board because of the fact everything is damn near micro-soldered. Plus I'm too lazy to pull the board every time I want to change a value... Get some ceramic versions of the same pf rating and see if you like the sound of them. They have a bit more grit; stock is silver mica.



Stock is actually ceramic in mine.
Any cap should be fine as long as it has the rating you desire. 100v or more is good.


----------



## Natedog_37

Santa was good to me this year.

MXR compression
Ploy tuner
tc corona chorus
MXR Carbon Copy 

To add to my slowly growing Collection.

Now time for a pedal board and some power.


----------



## MarshallDog

Woods said:


> Silver mica between 100-180pf. Depending on your rig. I have 120 because it was convenient and sounds good with My SG with P-90 and Tele. (read bright) Not in too big of a hurry to change it. I had a 68 in there it was still a little muddy. 100 was on the verge, 220 was too bright. 150-180 I could easily see with a dark sounding axe. 470pf I believe is stock; voltage rating is what it is with the mica I've dealt with. Definitely *not* a huge factor in a low voltage tone circuit. I clipped the capacitor as high as I could and soldered to the legs left behind in the board because of the fact everything is damn near micro-soldered. Plus I'm too lazy to pull the board every time I want to change a value... Get some ceramic versions of the same pf rating and see if you like the sound of them. They have a bit more grit; stock is silver mica.



I was thinking about trying a 120pF, do you like it? Im at 100pF now. I play Gibson Les Pauls... FYI the stock C19 is 1000pF.


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

Thanks very much guys. I wonder if it would be possible to use alligator clips on the old legs of the clipped cap to try different values to see what I like best. I can get an assortment of caps from our electronics department at work and if they don't have the right size they can order it for me.


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

Natedog_37 said:


> Santa was good to me this year.
> 
> MXR compression
> Ploy tuner
> tc corona chorus
> MXR Carbon Copy
> 
> To add to my slowly growing Collection.
> 
> Now time for a pedal board and some power.



Nice setup. I have the Bad Monkey too. It plays very well with the 40C.


----------



## Natedog_37

Been playing around with the B.M. mostly just use it to drive the clean channel. Red I some time use it to push me over the edge for really heavy songs.


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

How do you like the Compressor?


----------



## Woods

Micky said:


> Stock is actually ceramic in mine.
> Any cap should be fine as long as it has the rating you desire. 100v or more is good.



Mine was a small yellow glossy bubble style... So used to seeing the radio-shack dish style, this observation makes sense. Thanks!



MarshallDog said:


> I was thinking about trying a 120pF, do you like it? Im at 100pF now. I play Gibson Les Pauls... FYI the stock C19 is 1000pF.



It's what worked in my basic stream-of-conscience test, it pushed the darkness over the edge; I might try a 150 or 180 down the road. IMO if your going to play, get a few different values, because the difference between 100 and 120 isn't much of a contrast without refreshing your ears with a wider audience. I'd start at lager number, that way you can narrow it down. Thanks for the heads up!


----------



## MarshallDog

Greatwhitenorth said:


> Thanks very much guys. I wonder if it would be possible to use alligator clips on the old legs of the clipped cap to try different values to see what I like best. I can get an assortment of caps from our electronics department at work and if they don't have the right size they can order it for me.



Yes, I do it all the time.


----------



## jlinde1973

50v works just fine. I got two 100pf's piggybacked in my c19 from Radio shack for $1.99. I wouldn't go any higher than 200p...it's still fairly bright. I may even drop mine to 140p to try out. Got a couple 20pf's laying around.


----------



## Woods

FWIW I found this:

'DSL 40/100 Spare list'

www.tangible-technology.com/schematics/marshall/DSL/DSL15C/DSL40C/DSL40_100_PCB_Spares_List.pdf

Looks official... May help at one point.


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

Woods said:


> FWIW I found this:
> 
> 'DSL 40/100 Spare list'
> 
> www.tangible-technology.com/schematics/marshall/DSL/DSL15C/DSL40C/DSL40_100_PCB_Spares_List.pdf
> 
> Looks official... May help at one point.



Nice find.


----------



## Micky

MarshallDog said:


> I was thinking about trying a 120pF, do you like it? Im at 100pF now. I play Gibson Les Pauls... FYI the stock C19 is 1000pF.



Again, the stock C19 is a 470pf in mine. 1000 is way too much...


----------



## bad565ss

Bownse said:


> I'd hold off on the C19 clip since the Creamback does more along those lines that C19 does. Together, they might send you into the mud.



I believe I'll let it be for the time being. Sounds pretty good to me.


----------



## MarshallDog

Micky said:


> Again, the stock C19 is a 470pf in mine. 1000 is way too much...



Yes, correct my mistake, I just looked at the drawing, I must have been thinking of another amp


----------



## aftrshok99

My replacement amp will finally be here tomorrow, can't wait to play it and see if there was something wrong with my other amp before it went a$$ up on me.


----------



## Micky

MarshallDog said:


> Yes, correct my mistake, I just looked at the drawing, I must have been thinking of another amp



'Cmon Dog, get your crap together.
I thought you were the expert in this thread.


----------



## MarshallDog

Micky said:


> 'Cmon Dog, get your crap together.
> I thought you were the expert in this thread.



Yeah I slipped, too many Christmas cookies I guess...


----------



## Natedog_37

Greatwhitenorth said:


> How do you like the Compressor?



Sounds great. Really adds a lot on the clean setting.


----------



## RyanV

Micky said:


> Stock is actually ceramic in mine.
> Any cap should be fine as long as it has the rating you desire. 100v or more is good.



Crap. Realizing the one I bought from Radio Shack is only 50VDC. Rated in "Working Voltage" whatever that means. 


HEY!

Has anyone seen anyone having issues with their DSLs internally? My late 2014 build DSL40 is doing some weird stuff. 

Few weeks ago the amp goes permanently farty and red-plates. I replace the tubes(481V and biased to 35.5mV), see no other obvious damage and play an entire gig that weekend without issue. 

Took the speaker out to replace it and the amp has been sitting here for 2 weeks or so. Today I got my new WGS HM75 (OH yeah) and began to break in the amp on the clean channel (channel one, switch out). I get some noises that sound like bad cord shorting out so I change the cord and begin playin - nope...it's the amp.

If I tap on the switch side of the amp, even lightly, I get fireworks through the speakers and THAT can't be good for the new power tubes...

Any ideas? I have this sinking feeling a relay inside has gone **** up, but that's just a stab in the dark. I don't SEE anything visually wrong but I know that means nothing... I'm honestly not sure where to start. 

I did ask Lane...who I know is like "the" guru on Marshall Forum...but I figured I would get some input from the DSL lovers out there... Maybe I ought to do a thread. I'll wait til he replies before I do that.


----------



## MarshallDog

RyanV said:


> Crap. Realizing the one I bought from Radio Shack is only 50VDC. Rated in "Working Voltage" whatever that means.
> 
> 
> HEY!
> 
> Has anyone seen anyone having issues with their DSLs internally? My late 2014 build DSL40 is doing some weird stuff.
> 
> Few weeks ago the amp goes permanently farty and red-plates. I replace the tubes(481V and biased to 35.5mV), see no other obvious damage and play an entire gig that weekend without issue.
> 
> Took the speaker out to replace it and the amp has been sitting here for 2 weeks or so. Today I got my new WGS HM75 (OH yeah) and began to break in the amp on the clean channel (channel one, switch out). I get some noises that sound like bad cord shorting out so I change the cord and begin playin - nope...it's the amp.
> 
> If I tap on the switch side of the amp, even lightly, I get fireworks through the speakers and THAT can't be good for the new power tubes...
> 
> Any ideas? I have this sinking feeling a relay inside has gone **** up, but that's just a stab in the dark. I don't SEE anything visually wrong but I know that means nothing... I'm honestly not sure where to start.
> 
> I did ask Lane...who I know is like "the" guru on Marshall Forum...but I figured I would get some input from the DSL lovers out there... Maybe I ought to do a thread. I'll wait til he replies before I do that.



Could be a bad preamp tube most likely V1 but Ive also had V2 go bad making all the same sounds you mention. Its worth a try replacing one pre at a time.


----------



## rlowe

RyanV said:


> Crap. Realizing the one I bought from Radio Shack is only 50VDC. Rated in "Working Voltage" whatever that means.
> 
> 
> HEY!
> 
> Has anyone seen anyone having issues with their DSLs internally? My late 2014 build DSL40 is doing some weird stuff.
> 
> Few weeks ago the amp goes permanently farty and red-plates. I replace the tubes(481V and biased to 35.5mV), see no other obvious damage and play an entire gig that weekend without issue.
> 
> Took the speaker out to replace it and the amp has been sitting here for 2 weeks or so. Today I got my new WGS HM75 (OH yeah) and began to break in the amp on the clean channel (channel one, switch out). I get some noises that sound like bad cord shorting out so I change the cord and begin playin - nope...it's the amp.
> 
> If I tap on the switch side of the amp, even lightly, I get fireworks through the speakers and THAT can't be good for the new power tubes...
> 
> Any ideas? I have this sinking feeling a relay inside has gone **** up, but that's just a stab in the dark. I don't SEE anything visually wrong but I know that means nothing... I'm honestly not sure where to start.
> 
> I did ask Lane...who I know is like "the" guru on Marshall Forum...but I figured I would get some input from the DSL lovers out there... Maybe I ought to do a thread. I'll wait til he replies before I do that.


Honestly, it could be a preamp tube. My 40c would snap, crackle, pop each and every time I fired up the amp and played..unbearable. I changed the whole set of preamp tubes but still popping. I then changed both power tubes and yes, problem solved.


----------



## RyanV

Near as I can tell the bias voltage is dropping REALLY low. Just having trouble isolating the reason why. AC voktage in the bias circuit seems to be stable. Really driving me nuts.


----------



## RyanV

Don't know if anyone was actually following my issues with any interest but it seems to have been a bad Phase Inverter tube. (!)


----------



## Micky

Just saw this. Glad you got it sorted out...


----------



## Jethro Rocker

With all the weird problems and sounds that can plague an amp, the weakest link - tubes - is most often the problem!!


----------



## MarshallDog

Anyone ever have this issue? Once in a while when I turn on the amp from a cold start it is dead quiet no sound at all not even static white noise. I turn her off then back on and all is fine All new tubes. Almost seems as a relay is not kicking in for some strange reason.


----------



## Oldpunk

I get that sometimes but after hitting the footswitch it engages.


----------



## MarshallDog

Oldpunk said:


> I get that sometimes but after hitting the footswitch it engages.



Next time it happens to me I'll try hitting the footswitch. Very interesting! Thanks for the feedback.


----------



## aftrshok99

Replacement amp arrived Thursday...spent some time playing it and I'm gonna have to make a change either in my pickups, c19 mod or tubes or all of them because it just isn't working, it's so stinking brite that I can't handle it. Maybe start with the c19 mod first and then tubes Monday when they arrive?


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Speaker is huge. C19 affects Ultra channel but Crunch should sound OK. Speaker break in or just change the damn thing. Manybchoices out there. Some members don't like yhe V30, I find it excellent in mine.


----------



## ken361

aftrshok99 said:


> Replacement amp arrived Thursday...spent some time playing it and I'm gonna have to make a change either in my pickups, c19 mod or tubes or all of them because it just isn't working, it's so stinking brite that I can't handle it. Maybe start with the c19 mod first and then tubes Monday when they arrive?



Stock speaker? What I did the other day is to set the amp against the wall slanted and dial it in That way. Adjust the treble to 3 and the presence to 3 gain at 5 to 7 bass to taste. Mids at 4 resonance like 6. I do have 3 Nos tubes to warm it up. It probably sound bright at first but this is the best way to actually hear it. Les Paul red 1


----------



## aftrshok99

Jethro Rocker said:


> Speaker is huge. C19 affects Ultra channel but Crunch should sound OK. Speaker break in or just change the damn thing. Manybchoices out there. Some members don't like yhe V30, I find it excellent in mine.



Creamback in it...I can get the cruch channel sounding good but switching to the ultra channel as most of you know, the eq is all wrong so I'm thinking c19 to make that part better.




ken361 said:


> Stock speaker? What I did the other day is to set the amp against the wall slanted and dial it in That way. Adjust the treble to 3 and the presence to 3 gain at 5 to 7 bass to taste. Mids at 4 resonance like 6. I do have 3 Nos tubes to warm it up. It probably sound bright at first but this is the best way to actually hear it. Les Paul red 1



I'll make some tube changes and change the pickups in my guitar (those needed to be replaced anyway, never liked the carvin ones). 

I'll take your advice and also shut up about it being a bit on the brite side for me. I'm sure I'll get it sorted.


----------



## BanditPanda

Yes change of speaker is huge but I'll wager that most did not give the 70/80 time to break in before swapping it out.
Be patient. Break it in and see how it suits you after the break in period.
The 70/80 is a less expensive Celestion and no doubt there are more expensive ones that have higher performance values but it comes down to what you want to hear. For example although my 70/80 is not yet broken in I'm ok with it so far and personally I find the Creamback takes away some of the wild side of the amps sound. I find that that it really subdues some of the vibrancy of the amp. Keep in mind that I am judging only by what I hear on You Tube.
Tubes imo for mid entry amps like this ( DSL40C) are like strings on a newly purchased guitar just out of the music store. First thing you do is change the strings right. imo the same applies to these lower priced amps and their tubes.
C19 mod. Again be patient. You've got new tubes coming. Make the change. Play a lot and let the speaker break in. Find the amps sweet spot for whatever style you are playing. It takes time and attention.
If after all you are still not happy and your warranty has not run out and you haven't voided it by doing the C19 mod return the amp with its original parts to the vendor and find something else that you find more pleasing with less hassle.


----------



## jeffb

I run mine into a closed back 2x12 and have tried a bunch of speakers matched and mixed..various g12ms G12h and V30. I have a mix of new and nos tubes. None of it ,unfortunately, makes the red channel all that much better in either mode. Thin and nasal. My strat with FS1 and stock low output neck and middle seems to work best, my gibsons and prs just dont gel.

I guess at some point I will dothe mod @ c19, but green crunch is whereabouts I live in marshall-tonetown, so I am not feeling the need to do so.


----------



## ken361

Spend 4 bucks and get a V pick Tradition UL,its like a Fender med with a softer highs and more low end! Its very good on the red channel over a brighter Tortex, game changer !


----------



## Oldpunk

Yea it's funny with all the tone chasing, mods, tubes, speaker's, people don't think for a second about picks. They make just as much of a difference. It's where the rubber meets the pavement and has a lot to do with tone/playability more then you'd think.


----------



## ken361

Yeah I didn't realize it before


----------



## Codeman

Oldpunk said:


> Yea it's funny with all the tone chasing, mods, tubes, speaker's, people don't think for a second about picks. They make just as much of a difference. It's where the rubber meets the pavement and has a lot to do with tone/playability more then you'd think.



It's funny you mentioned this. I had an old Fender medium pick in a desk drawer that I hadn't used because the purple Tortex were more reliable. I compared the sound quality and found I could get more bass thump with the Tortex and more treble bite with the Fender.


----------



## ken361

I was using the yellow ones Tortex .75, V pick is much nicer


----------



## Bownse

aftrshok99 said:


> Replacement amp arrived Thursday...spent some time playing it and I'm gonna have to make a change either in my pickups, c19 mod or tubes or all of them because it just isn't working, it's so stinking brite that I can't handle it. Maybe start with the c19 mod first and then tubes Monday when they arrive?



I'd consider the speaker first. It's less intrusive, easily reversed, and doesn't void the warranty (when the OEM speaker is put back in before needing to use the warranty). It also has more impact on tone that C19 which is more of an affect on the nobs' affects on tone.


----------



## jeffb

I have about 300 picks laying around, no doubt picks make very audible differences.

The problem I have with the red channel is fundamental to the design/way it is voiced. Its just not my cup of tea.


----------



## Woods

^At least it's voiced better than a Mesa...  *puts on parka to listen to that chilly fizz*


----------



## Oldpunk

....and Bogner.

A few months ago I took my 40c over to a friend's house who had just got a new Bogner Uberschall because he wanted to check it out as did I his new amp. I first played his Uber through his mesa 4x12 ...was nice, big n crunchy, had its own thing going on but sounded way too compressed to me. Cool amp but very modern voiced. Then we hooked up the 40c to it and were totally surprised. Huge classic Marshall sound. The little Viet wonder sounded better than the Bogner through those V30's. After a few minute jam he asked how much I got it for. When I told him 500 bucks his response was .....'get out!'


----------



## Micky

jeffb said:


> I have about 300 picks laying around, no doubt picks make very audible differences.
> 
> The problem I have with the red channel is fundamental to the design/way it is voiced. Its just not my cup of tea.



I thought that at first as well.

And then I played with a few friends...
And was blown away at the sound of my amp 'in the mix'.

What I thought was shrill and fizzy, was actually smooth and full with an almost unlimited amount of gain on tap on the Ultra II mode. Almost all of the stuff I could get by with like Rush, Metallica, Crue and more on the Classic channel Crunch mode with the gain up, I was able to nail on the Ultra channel with the gain at 5 or below.

I am not a good player by any means, certainly not good enough for lead soloing, but I held my own and we had a great time. We were actually amazed how good we sounded. Until one of us tried to sing...

Point is, the DSL is an incredibly versatile amp for the money. No, it is not perfect. But to get the tone you can get from it makes it one of the top picks as far as beginners all the way to experienced players. My guess is that is what makes it so popular...


----------



## aftrshok99

Got my order of preamp tubes in today, nothing special, just wanted to have some different flavors as well as backups.

Mullard Reissue 12ax7
JJ ECC83 S
Mesa Boogie STR-12 ax7-a
Mesa Boogie SPax7 (I'll probably put this one in V1)

Not sure what or where to put the others or just leave the other positions stock.


----------



## Woods

Micky said:


> I thought that at first as well.
> 
> And then I played with a few friends...
> And was blown away at the sound of my amp 'in the mix'.



[ame]www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0DvQ9qY3Yg[/ame]


----------



## jeffb

Micky said:


> I thought that at first as well.
> 
> And then I played with a few friends...
> And was blown away at the sound of my amp 'in the mix'.
> 
> What I thought was shrill and fizzy, was actually smooth and full with an almost unlimited amount of gain on tap on the Ultra II mode. Almost all of the stuff I could get by with like Rush, Metallica, Crue and more on the Classic channel Crunch mode with the gain up, I was able to nail on the Ultra channel with the gain at 5 or below.
> 
> I am not a good player by any means, certainly not good enough for lead soloing, but I held my own and we had a great time. We were actually amazed how good we sounded. Until one of us tried to sing...
> 
> Point is, the DSL is an incredibly versatile amp for the money. No, it is not perfect. But to get the tone you can get from it makes it one of the top picks as far as beginners all the way to experienced players. My guess is that is what makes it so popular...



I'm not really complaining about the amp, I bought it after playing one many times. I am completely fine with just the green channel and bought it solely for that. ust saying that stylistically/voicing wise, it's not my thing, and that might be the case for others too. 

It's not the best Marshall I have owned, but it's definitely the best "budget" Marshall I have owned. And better than some Marshalls that cost me much more comparitively.


----------



## Woods

^Just say you don't like the JCM800 and your more of a plexi guy and move on... Green = Plexi hot-rod; Red = JCM800 hot-rod


Goes to show with even the pickiest purists; there's something for everyone with the DSL.


----------



## jeffb

Woods said:


> ^Just say you don't like the JCM800 and your more of a plexi guy and move on... Green = Plexi hot-rod; Red = JCM800 hot-rod
> 
> 
> Goes to show with even the pickiest purists; there's something for everyone with the DSL.




Well I love 2203/4s both in JMP and JCM dress (and have owned them). I do prefer NMVs. But green crunch is not really plexi at all. Far more in common with a 2203 than a 1987/1959.

IOW, it's not a purist thing.


----------



## Micky

jeffb said:


> Well I love 2203/4s both in JMP and JCM dress (and have owned them). I do prefer NMVs. But green crunch is not really plexi at all. Far more in common with a 2203 than a 1987/1959.
> 
> IOW, it's not a purist thing.



In a way, I kinda agree.
If there is a gain control & MV it is not really a plexi circuit.

A DSL5c has more in common with a plexi than a DSL40c...


----------



## Jethro Rocker

aftrshok99 said:


> Got my order of preamp tubes in today, nothing special, just wanted to have some different flavors as well as backups.
> 
> Mullard Reissue 12ax7
> JJ ECC83 S
> Mesa Boogie STR-12 ax7-a
> Mesa Boogie SPax7 (I'll probably put this one in V1)
> 
> Not sure what or where to put the others or just leave the other positions stock.



I thought the stock tubes were JJs in the 40Cs, at least the first bunches. Not sure who makes the Mesa STR, would be interesting to see one or a pic of one and compare. I would try the SP in the PI slot. I believe Mesa sorted those for High Performance and made excellent PI tubes. 
The Mullard RI, don't know. Try em everywhere but maybe the Mullard in V1 and SP in V4 to start?? May work great with SP in V1 as well. If you find it too bright, the JJ in V2 might work well unless the stock are JJs. Someone may correct me on this.


----------



## ken361

Yes stocks are JJ and Mesa's relabeled JJ


----------



## Jethro Rocker

[/CODE]


Micky said:


> I thought that at first as well.
> 
> And then I played with a few friends...
> And was blown away at the sound of my amp 'in the mix'.
> 
> What I thought was shrill and fizzy, was actually smooth and full with an almost unlimited amount of gain on tap on the Ultra II mode. Almost all of the stuff I could get by with like Rush, Metallica, Crue and more on the Classic channel Crunch mode with the gain up, I was able to nail on the Ultra channel with the gain at 5 or below.
> 
> I am not a good player by any means, certainly not good enough for lead soloing, but I held my own and we had a great time. We were actually amazed how good we sounded. Until one of us tried to sing...
> 
> Point is, the DSL is an incredibly versatile amp for the money. No, it is not perfect. But to get the tone you can get from it makes it one of the top picks as far as beginners all the way to experienced players. My guess is that is what makes it so popular...



Micky, I must agree wholeheartedly. It is a great sounding amp depending on your tastes. I disliked the 4210 I tried the other day. The 40C sounds much better, IMO. The 40C gets dibs on this week's show, just to change things up. The lead channel will cut through the mix well and I look forward to torturing my strings and the tubes!! Never used it in this venue before, will see how it sounds with the wireless FOH.


----------



## Codeman

Jethro Rocker said:


> I thought the stock tubes were JJs in the 40Cs, at least the first bunches. Not sure who makes the Mesa STR, would be interesting to see one or a pic of one and compare. I would try the SP in the PI slot. I believe Mesa sorted those for High Performance and made excellent PI tubes.
> The Mullard RI, don't know. Try em everywhere but maybe the Mullard in V1 and SP in V4 to start?? May work great with SP in V1 as well. If you find it too bright, the JJ in V2 might work well unless the stock are JJs. Someone may correct me on this.



I have Mullard RI in V2 and I really like it, but not everyone will. It is a pretty balanced tube but it isn't high gain. The TAD7025WA I have in V1 colors the tone enough that all V2 needs is a gain boost which the Mullard provides.


----------



## dave999z

Last time I checked in with this thread was like 100 pages ago. Crimony!

Just curious, among those of you who actually like the red channel and use it (lead 1) to produce singing leads (not djent djent rhythms), have any of you found an overdrive or boost pedal that you like to use in front of the amp just to subtly give the red channel that nudge over the edge?

I'm not looking to compress the living sh!t out of the sound nor have uncontrollable amounts of noise. Just looking to add a little color and smoothness to get it to sing a little easier, while retaining a decent amount of dynamics and responsiveness. But that said, I am talking smooth sustaining lead tone, not just edge of breakup crunch. I've been able to move in this direction using a TS808 dialed with overdrive quite low, tone set to match the same EQ as with the pedal off (or as close as possible despite the mid boost you get from the TS), and the level set to be just a touch louder than with the pedal off. But it's not quite as harmonic/responsive/colorful as I'm hoping for. Maybe I'm just kind of immune or burned out on that exact TS sound.

I mostly go for that sound with a les paul (hot humbucker) but also sometimes with a strat (weaker single coil). Usually the neck pickup. I realize there is probably not one pedal/amp setting that will allow both guitars to get there.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts. Cheers.


----------



## Woods

I just turn the guitar down a little, the turn it back up for leads setting my gain to the max I want before hand. I suppose you could get scientific about it, but I prefer to K.I.S.S.


----------



## Codeman

dave999z said:


> Last time I checked in with this thread was like 100 pages ago. Crimony!
> 
> Just curious, among those of you who actually like the red channel and use it (lead 1) to produce singing leads (not djent djent rhythms), have any of you found an overdrive or boost pedal that you like to use in front of the amp just to subtly give the red channel that nudge over the edge?
> 
> .....
> 
> Thanks in advance for any thoughts. Cheers.



I've been researching something for this as well. The best idea I've come up with is the Fulltone OCD. I haven't used it, but I have heard a lot about it. 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhRpEygvjJI[/ame]


----------



## Jethro Rocker

I run a Bad Monkey but keep level full on Monkey, no gain, and gain on amp fairly low. Try it with 808.


----------



## R.Kandy

I've had an OCD for a few years now and really like it. I run it through a DSL 100H, with my Strat, it keeps my Strat sounding like a Strat. ​​​​​​


----------



## R.Kandy

Codeman said:


> I've been researching something for this as well. The best idea I've come up with is the Fulltone OCD. I haven't used it, but I have heard a lot about it.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhRpEygvjJI



This is probably an older video of the OCD 3. The OCD 4 has a red light, and much more expressive tone for the LP and the HP modes.


----------



## Micky

I hate pedals, but I have tried my BOSS OD-1x and it works pretty good...


----------



## Codeman

R.Kandy said:


> This is probably an older video of the OCD 3. The OCD 4 has a red light, and much more expressive tone for the LP and the HP modes.



Yeah, I think you're right. I didn't know that there were multiple versions of the OCD until you mentioned it.


----------



## Codeman

Micky said:


> I hate pedals, but I have tried my BOSS OD-1x and it works pretty good...



I guess that says a lot about that pedal huh?


----------



## Micky

Codeman said:


> I guess that says a lot about that pedal huh?



No, I just hate having to use pedals, I am not biased.
The DSL5c has no reverb, so I use a BOSS RV-something pedal with that.
But I don't like to...

I am a straight-into-the-amp kinda guy.
I find that I love the Crunch on all Marshalls, and the Ultra on most.
I don't need a lot of effects, especially something to overdrive an already overdriven channel or mode.

Clean drive is a different story, I can use that to get more clean volume.
The OD-1x is great for that...


----------



## jep1210

So, over the holiday break I got the courage up to roll in Doug's Tubes "tone kit" which is their specially picked preamps for the DSL, along with their suggestion of matched Ruby power tubes. Below is what it consists of:

2 matched Ruby EL34BSTR's

1 Tung Sol 12AX7 for V1
2 Ruby 7025SS for V2 and V3
and a Sovtek 12AX7 LPS for V4

I set the bias at 36.4 left and 36.2 on the right, but this might be a bit too low. I didn't measure plate voltage...not feeling THAT courageous just yet....just went with 38mv as my base that seems to be the normal measurement that has been posted here. I have only been able to play at lower volume so far but I could tell right away I'll be able to dial in some treble, finally. I have been running the treb. at about 2 on the dial and the Bass at about 8 up to this point. This tube "cocktail" seemed to have really cleaned up the Classic 1(green) channel (a good thing in MY book). The red channel is still a little fizzy for my taste but I I'm reserving my opinion until I can crank the amp a bit....apartment living is the pits for this sort of thing. Besides, I usually stay on green1 and go with pedals for my dirty sounds anyway. 

I AM happy with the results so far, but the real test will be when I play with the band at level. I'm also proud of myself for being able to swap tubes and set the bias...something I knew nothing about 5 months ago...but thanks to the great info here it was a "breeze". You guys rock . I will admit, it took my hands about 45 minute to stop shaking after I was all done. 

I can't wait to see...or hear what it sounds like at the next band rehersal.

I guess I should mention I'm still running the stock speaker, that should have enough time on it to be broken in (4 months of at least once a week playing??? practices/gigs) and guitar was a 2013 Trad Les Paul.


----------



## Woods

That tube likes a little heat into the so 65% is the minimum I'd bias them. Anything less sounds cold to me. I have the TAD version at 38mV (36mA), the water is real fine!


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

Jethro Rocker said:


> I run a Bad Monkey but keep level full on Monkey, no gain, and gain on amp fairly low. Try it with 808.



I use the Bad Monkey just like this. Having the separate bass and treble controls is nice for shaping the tone a little further. It colors the tone slightly, but in the right way, at least for me.


----------



## rlowe

jep1210 said:


> So, over the holiday break I got the courage up to roll in Doug's Tubes "tone kit" which is their specially picked preamps for the DSL, along with their suggestion of matched Ruby power tubes. Below is what it consists of:
> 
> 2 matched Ruby EL34BSTR's
> 
> 1 Tung Sol 12AX7 for V1
> 2 Ruby 7025SS for V2 and V3
> and a Sovtek 12AX7 LPS for V4
> 
> I set the bias at 36.4 left and 36.2 on the right, but this might be a bit too low. I didn't measure plate voltage...not feeling THAT courageous just yet....just went with 38mv as my base that seems to be the normal measurement that has been posted here. I have only been able to play at lower volume so far but I could tell right away I'll be able to dial in some treble, finally. I have been running the treb. at about 2 on the dial and the Bass at about 8 up to this point. This tube "cocktail" seemed to have really cleaned up the Classic 1(green) channel (a good thing in MY book). The red channel is still a little fizzy for my taste but I I'm reserving my opinion until I can crank the amp a bit....apartment living is the pits for this sort of thing. Besides, I usually stay on green1 and go with pedals for my dirty sounds anyway.
> 
> I AM happy with the results so far, but the real test will be when I play with the band at level. I'm also proud of myself for being able to swap tubes and set the bias...something I knew nothing about 5 months ago...but thanks to the great info here it was a "breeze". You guys rock . I will admit, it took my hands about 45 minute to stop shaking after I was all done.
> 
> I can't wait to see...or hear what it sounds like at the next band rehersal.
> 
> I guess I should mention I'm still running the stock speaker, that should have enough time on it to be broken in (4 months of at least once a week playing??? practices/gigs) and guitar was a 2013 Trad Les Paul.


I also tried that same exact set from Doug's tubes HG with better balance than the stock JJ's. I also installed 2 E34L's from Eurotubes nice and punchy!. The stock speaker in this amp is no longer piercing in the treble range after break in period, in fact I have to kick in extra treble to bring some back-no mod's. I gave myself aprx. 6-7 months to evaluate. Using certain boost od pedals gives it a bit more roar!


----------



## Micky

It is nice to see everyone experimenting with tubes as it relates to tone!
That, and the speaker have the 2 biggest impacts, your playing does the rest.

Best part is, with a nice set of tubes in your amp, you can use the originals as a spare set.


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

Well folks, I finally bit the bullet over the holidays and clipped the C19 cap. I really didn't want to nullify my warranty but I figured that I could solder it back if I didn't like the results and no one should be the wiser. 
The effect is *Major *to say the least. I'm really happy with the tone so far, but I may play with assorted caps after I get used to it. I typically was using the Green channel and pedals to get my dirt, but this really sounds good IMHO. I'll report back if and when I make any changes. Thanks again for all the good information in this thread. I really appreciate it.


----------



## Woods

Told you so.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Greatwhitenorth said:


> Well folks, I finally bit the bullet over the holidays and clipped the C19 cap. I really didn't want to nullify my warranty but I figured that I could solder it back if I didn't like the results and no one should be the wiser.
> The effect is *Major *to say the least. I'm really happy with the tone so far, but I may play with assorted caps after I get used to it. I typically was using the Green channel and pedals to get my dirt, but this really sounds good IMHO. I'll report back if and when I make any changes. Thanks again for all the good information in this thread. I really appreciate it.



Did it first week I had mine, it really works for me in balancing the channels. Push the front as memtioned, I can go from cleanish - clean enough - to dirt on Green, and solo with more level on Ultra channel. Look forward to tryimg it on Thursday's show.


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

Woods said:


> Told you so.





Jethro Rocker said:


> Did it first week I had mine, it really works for me in balancing the channels. Push the front as memtioned, I can go from cleanish - clean enough - to dirt on Green, and solo with more level on Ultra channel. Look forward to tryimg it on Thursday's show.



It's not that I didn't trust you guys. I was a bit of a chicken sh!t to be honest.

The Red channels now sound far more pleasing to me. I couldn't get anything nearly as good as what I was with the Green channel and pedals before the cap was removed. The only reservations that I have now are if the amp will cut through as well at band volume and will I miss some of the bite that it previously had. Time will tell.


----------



## ken361

Would be nice to hear a before and after with the cab mic'd


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

ken361 said:


> Would be nice to hear a before and after with the cab mic'd



I really wish I would have done just that. I've only ever used my iPhone to record myself playing. I'm not sure how well it would have come out.


----------



## Oldpunk

Micky said:


> I am a straight-into-the-amp kinda guy.
> I find that I love the Crunch on all Marshalls, and the Ultra on most.
> I don't need a lot of effects, especially something to overdrive an already overdriven channel or mode.
> 
> Clean drive is a different story, I can use that to get more clean volume.
> The OD-1x is great for that...



I have been the same forever as well...Guitar, chord, amp. Shoot, never even used reverb live. But last month I bought a TC mojomojo OD just to try out and see. It opened up my 40c big time with both a nice clean and crunch boost. In escenence adding a third channel to the amp. A transparent pedal is what you want on a Marshall, one that keeps the amps tone intact and just adds extra coloring.

I don't think that I will ever be a pedal board guy or anything but a few select ones is definitely on the agenda.


----------



## MarshallDog

Greatwhitenorth said:


> Well folks, I finally bit the bullet over the holidays and clipped the C19 cap. I really didn't want to nullify my warranty but I figured that I could solder it back if I didn't like the results and no one should be the wiser.
> The effect is *Major *to say the least. I'm really happy with the tone so far, but I may play with assorted caps after I get used to it. I typically was using the Green channel and pedals to get my dirt, but this really sounds good IMHO. I'll report back if and when I make any changes. Thanks again for all the good information in this thread. I really appreciate it.



Glad you like it but I kinda figured you would I have ended up a 100 pF cap in its place for,what it's worth.


----------



## Rahlstin

I run Two OCD's Awesome pedal. One is set with just a hair on it the other is set pretty aggressive. The DSL40C and the 100H love those pedals and your guitar is very open and not squashed.


----------



## jlinde1973

Woods said:


> That tube likes a little heat into the so 65% is the minimum I'd bias them. Anything less sounds cold to me. I have the TAD version at 38mV (36mA), the water is real fine!



I've biased mine anywhere from 55-80% and found that it sounds the best at about 77% or 42ma. Any less and it just sounds sterile, any more and its too sizzly. Those are the stock chinese el34s. I'm sure different tubes will sound better at different bias settings.


----------



## jep1210

Greatwhitenorth said:


> Well folks, I finally bit the bullet over the holidays and clipped the C19 cap. I really didn't want to nullify my warranty but I figured that I could solder it back if I didn't like the results and no one should be the wiser.
> The effect is *Major *to say the least. I'm really happy with the tone so far, but I may play with assorted caps after I get used to it. I typically was using the Green channel and pedals to get my dirt, but this really sounds good IMHO. I'll report back if and when I make any changes. Thanks again for all the good information in this thread. I really appreciate it.



Out of curiosity I located cap C19 while I was fumbling around in there during my tube swap/biasing escapade this weekend. That damn thing is TINY!!!  I saw the pictures posted here and they don't do justice to the true size...or lack there of....of C19. There was a time I considered swapping it out for a different value, but my soldering skills are not up to the tasks.  Especially for a channel I don't use that much...however with the mod maaaaybe....


----------



## Natedog_37

ken361 said:


> Would be nice to hear a before and after with the cab mic'd



Was thinking about doing this if I grow the balls to do the mod.


----------



## jep1210

ken361 said:


> Would be nice to hear a before and after with the cab mic'd





Natedog_37 said:


> Was thinking about doing this if I grow the balls to do the mod.



Some where in this enormous thread, someone posted that very video.
Sadly I have NO idea what page it was.


----------



## Penguinchit

Greatwhitenorth said:


> Well folks, I finally bit the bullet over the holidays and clipped the C19 cap.



I'm still in the tempted stage. Partially the warranty and partially because I know my skill level probably isn't good enough to make a difference yet.



Jethro Rocker said:


> Look forward to tryimg it on Thursday's show.



Someone's bound to video the show and then someone else is bound to post said video here, right?



Rahlstin said:


> I run Two OCD's Awesome pedal.



What pedals? There's a pedal called the Awesome? I'm curious because my Soul Food, although a great pedal, doesn't cut it for me. When my drive is turned up, it just has a "digital" sound to the overdriven tone. Like I'm using a Spider 3 amp or something like that. Am I looking for a warmer, smoother overdrive?


----------



## rlowe

Penguinchit said:


> I'm still in the tempted stage. Partially the warranty and partially because I know my skill level probably isn't good enough to make a difference yet.
> 
> 
> 
> Someone's bound to video the show and then someone else is bound to post said video here, right?
> 
> 
> 
> What pedals? There's a pedal called the Awesome? I'm curious because my Soul Food, although a great pedal, doesn't cut it for me. When my drive is turned up, it just has a "digital" sound to the overdriven tone. Like I'm using a Spider 3 amp or something like that. Am I looking for a warmer, smoother overdrive?


Keep in mind a pedal choice is partially subjective to preference. Personally I like an Ibanez tube screamer used as a boost (Green or Red channel) and maybe a little gain just unbelievable. 

I tried the OCD and was too dark and fuzzy for me.


----------



## Codeman

Penguinchit said:


> What pedals? There's a pedal called the Awesome? ...



No, he is referring to the Fulltone Obsessive Compulsive Drive aka "OCD".


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

jep1210 said:


> Out of curiosity I located cap C19 while I was fumbling around in there during my tube swap/biasing escapade this weekend. That damn thing is TINY!!!  I saw the pictures posted here and they don't do justice to the true size...or lack there of....of C19. There was a time I considered swapping it out for a different value, but my soldering skills are not up to the tasks.  Especially for a channel I don't use that much...however with the mod maaaaybe....



All I have done so far is clipped the capacitor, and you're right, it is tiny. I have done some soldering with pickups, but I have a couple of buddies who would be happy to help me do it and they have the tools for the job. I'm a hands on guy so it's always good to learn something new so that I can tackle it myself in the future. That's why this thread is so helpful to me.

I really didn't care for the Red channel, pre mod, but now it's really a ton better. Maybe not perfect quite yet, but usable which is the key. Keep in mind that this is all my perception and your results may vary.


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

MarshallDog said:


> Glad you like it but I kinda figured you would I have ended up a 100 pF cap in its place for,what it's worth.



I'm going to buy a couple of assorted ones to test out with the alligator clips before I settle on something. Thanks again for the replies and encouragement.


----------



## aftrshok99

Well I went and busted out the soldering iron last night and did the C19 mod, easy as pie. Everyone who has done it was right....wow, so much better now. Played with it for a while like that then changed out my tubes.

V1: Mesa Boogie Spax7
v2: Mullard 12ax7 reissue
v3: Mesa Boogie 12ax7
v4: JJ ECC83s 

Not sure if I should use one of the other ones in v4 or just leave it how it is?

The amp really sounds good now and I can actually use my treble and resonance, before I couldn't.


----------



## MarshallDog

aftrshok99 said:


> Well I went and busted out the soldering iron last night and did the C19 mod, easy as pie. Everyone who has done it was right....wow, so much better now. Played with it for a while like that then changed out my tubes.
> 
> V1: Mesa Boogie Spax7
> v2: Mullard 12ax7 reissue
> v3: Mesa Boogie 12ax7
> v4: JJ ECC83s
> 
> Not sure if I should use one of the other ones in v4 or just leave it how it is?
> 
> The amp really sounds good now and I can actually use my treble and resonance, before I couldn't.



Awesome and glad you like it. Makes me wonder why Marshall designed that channel the way they did


----------



## jeffb

Has anyone made a headshel for the 40c? That would keep the writing right side up?


----------



## Codeman

MarshallDog said:


> Awesome and glad you like it. Makes me wonder why Marshall designed that channel the way they did



I was listening to "Breaking the Law" by Judas Priest the other day, and I was trying to get a similar sound. I noticed that they had a good amount of bass in their guitars but it never sounded muddy because the top end was easy to hear. My guess, is that Marshall wanted to allow people to cut through the mix, but still have a good bass. 

With the mods that I've done I'm really glad that the amp reacts this way because I have so much bass and low mids that I need the treble on 12 o'clock or higher. For BtL, I had to turn down the presence from 1 o'clock to 10, but after that it sounded great.

To be fair though, for a 1x12 cab the stock EL34's are pretty light on the bass so maybe my theory doesn't hold water?


----------



## Codeman

jeffb said:


> Has anyone made a headshel for the 40c? That would keep the writing right side up?



I think someone has already made a headshell. You should use the search feature and use head or headshell as your search terms and you will probably find it.


----------



## ken361

Codeman said:


> I was listening to "Breaking the Law" by Judas Priest the other day, and I was trying to get a similar sound. I noticed that they had a good amount of bass in their guitars but it never sounded muddy because the top end was easy to hear. My guess, is that Marshall wanted to allow people to cut through the mix, but still have a good bass.
> 
> With the mods that I've done I'm really glad that the amp reacts this way because I have so much bass and low mids that I need the treble on 12 o'clock or higher. For BtL, I had to turn down the presence from 1 o'clock to 10, but after that it sounded great.
> 
> To be fair though, for a 1x12 cab the stock EL34's are pretty light on the bass so maybe my theory doesn't hold water?


depends were your playing the amp, my house there's not that much bass and im not near a wall keep in mind. At my girls condo theres lots of bass! I do that song a lot also it sounds great with tube and speaker mods treb at 3 and presence


----------



## Codeman

ken361 said:


> depends were your playing the amp, my house there's not that much bass and im not near a wall keep in mind. At my girls condo theres lots of bass! I do that song a lot also it sounds great with tube and speaker mods treb at 3 and presence



The room is a bedroom with wood floors with the amp about 6in away from a wall. Bass is on 6 and Res on 6. I like me some bass...

Oh! If you really want to have some fun, put the amp in a corner of the room and put a dresser on the same wall next to the amp. Carpet makes it better too.

Just like in business: location, location, location.


----------



## MarshallDog

Heads up guys, if you find you want more mids and a bit less base (same eq setting) try some Svetlana EL34s, it will bring the mids out. For me it was to much but I put th m in my Jubilee and it brought it to life meaning not as dark


----------



## BanditPanda

My Svetlana EL34's arrived yesterday. Hvaen't got them placed yet.
This reveiw about them from The Tube Store ( no affiliation )
The Svetlana EL34 is the perfect tube for classic rock. The midrange is very pronounced and the high end is smooth. The bottom end response is not the best, but in a guitar amp it becomes a moot point. In the test amp the mids just rip through the mix. No guitar player is going to get lost in the mix using these tubes. These tubes deliver incredible crunch making them perfect for that ZZ Top, old EVH sound. Seven string down-strokers may not be as pleased because they don't have that crushing bottom end. The Winged "C" SED EL34 tubes definitely have the advantage in bottom end but we find that it can get a bit boomy. For guitar players that need an EL34 tube and play classic rock music we don't think you can find a better tube than the Svetlana EL34.


----------



## Codeman

Svetlana 12AX7 have a pretty solid bottom end though so if you put one in v1 or v2 they should play nicely with their el34 brethren.


----------



## jeffb

Codeman said:


> I think someone has already made a headshell. You should use the search feature and use head or headshell as your search terms and you will probably find it.



Roger.

WillCo.


----------



## jeffb

Codeman said:


> I was listening to "Breaking the Law" by Judas Priest the other day, and I was trying to get a similar sound. I noticed that they had a good amount of bass in their guitars but it never sounded muddy because the top end was easy to hear. My guess, is that Marshall wanted to allow people to cut through the mix, but still have a good bass



G12h.


----------



## Codeman

jeffb said:


> G12h.


 I don't follow.


----------



## Penguinchit

For those that do, what do you use for overdrive on this amp? I have a Soul Food and loved it at first but the sound now is just not what I'm chasing.

Sounds a lot like the guitar in this song at 1:53:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZfF0dvGakw[/ame]

I've described it as 'digital' before but I'm not sure if that's the right term. I'm looking for something more crunchy and gritty.


----------



## aftrshok99

I've got a Wampler Tumnus on order, probably won't be here for another week or so but I'll report back when it arrives.


----------



## jeffb

Codeman said:


> I don't follow.



G12H speakers. Big part of their tone in the 79-mid 80s era. Big low end. Clarity on top. Thick midrange.

Prior to that it was mostly 12ms and treble boosters.


----------



## BanditPanda

Codeman said:


> Svetlana 12AX7 have a pretty solid bottom end though so if you put one in v1 or v2 they should play nicely with their el34 brethren.


Hey Codeman , funny you should mention it in my order was also 2 x Svetlana 12AX7 for V2 & V3 
Again a review from the Tube Store ( no affiliation )
*Svetlana 12AX7* - For several years the original Svetlana 12AX7 tube from St. Petersburg (Winged "C"/SED) tried to develop a good 12AX7 and mostly failed. The current production Svetlana is a New Sensor product and is a member of 12AX7-EH and Tung-Sol 12AX7 family. All three of these tubes is virtually identical. The biggest difference seems to be in plate coating, gain and sound quality. I find the tube to sound a bit smoother than the EH and it has less gain than the Tung Sol. If you are not inspired by the Electro Harmonix and also find the Tungsol too grainy then this is the tube you want to give a chance. It has everything you want in a good pre-amp. Low noise, no Microphonics issues and very clear and open without being too bright. The construction is on par with the more expensive Tungsol. The price point on this 12AX7 tube is great because it will hold its own with more expensive options. Samples seem very reliable. If you like the JJ ECC83S but want something with a litter more glimmer this is where you should put your money.


----------



## Codeman

jeffb said:


> G12H speakers. Big part of their tone in the 79-mid 80s era. Big low end. Clarity on top. Thick midrange.
> 
> Prior to that it was mostly 12ms and treble boosters.



I guess it's a good thing that I have a Creamback then.


----------



## Codeman

BanditPanda said:


> Hey Codeman , funny you should mention it in my order was also 2 x Svetlana 12AX7 for V2 & V3
> Again a review from the Tube Store ( no affiliation )
> *Svetlana 12AX7* - For several years the original Svetlana 12AX7 tube from St. Petersburg (Winged "C"/SED) tried to develop a good 12AX7 and mostly failed. The current production Svetlana is a New Sensor product and is a member of 12AX7-EH and Tung-Sol 12AX7 family. All three of these tubes is virtually identical. The biggest difference seems to be in plate coating, gain and sound quality. I find the tube to sound a bit smoother than the EH and it has less gain than the Tung Sol. If you are not inspired by the Electro Harmonix and also find the Tungsol too grainy then this is the tube you want to give a chance. It has everything you want in a good pre-amp. Low noise, no Microphonics issues and very clear and open without being too bright. The construction is on par with the more expensive Tungsol. The price point on this 12AX7 tube is great because it will hold its own with more expensive options. Samples seem very reliable. If you like the JJ ECC83S but want something with a litter more glimmer this is where you should put your money.





If you find that you don't like them in v1 or v2 then you can place them in V3 and V4 like I did. They seem like pretty strong tubes.


----------



## Bownse

jeffb said:


> G12H speakers. Big part of their tone in the 79-mid 80s era. Big low end. Clarity on top. Thick midrange.
> 
> Prior to that it was mostly 12ms and treble boosters.



Yup (see below).


----------



## Straydog

Straydog said:


> As I wrote in a previous thread I bought a Creamback 75 and changed out the 70/80. I didn't really like the Creamback as much as I thought I would. Is there a big difference between the 65 and the 75?



Well, I think I finally found the speaker I was looking for. I bought a Celestion/Mesa Boogie Black Shadow C90. Made in England. It was from a Mesa Boogie and is practically new. After trying the Creamback G12H-75 and not being happy with it I kept researching speakers. Boy, there are a lot of choices. LOL....A friend bought a Mesa Lonestar Special that is Black Shadow equipped and I loved that sound. So I figured WTH and made the buy. I'm very impressed by the upgrade. That 70/80 stock speaker will never be in my amp again. Now that my warranty has expired I may just do the C19 mod. With the old speaker I didn't like the red channel at all. Now it seems to be very usable after all. It would be nice to get the mod done and go from there.


----------



## BanditPanda

Codeman said:


> If you find that you don't like them in v1 or v2 then you can place them in V3 and V4 like I did. They seem like pretty strong tubes.



Yup although I've got a Mullard CV4004 slotted for the V1 position and in V4 a JJ-ECC83 MG (Mid Gain) and that's the way I'm gonna roll ( for the time being lol )
BP


----------



## jlinde1973

Straydog said:


> Well, I think I finally found the speaker I was looking for. I bought a Celestion/Mesa Boogie Black Shadow C90. Made in England. It was from a Mesa Boogie and is practically new. After trying the Creamback G12H-75 and not being happy with it I kept researching speakers. Boy, there are a lot of choices. LOL....A friend bought a Mesa Lonestar Special that is Black Shadow equipped and I loved that sound. So I figured WTH and made the buy. I'm very impressed by the upgrade. That 70/80 stock speaker will never be in my amp again. Now that my warranty has expired I may just do the C19 mod. With the old speaker I didn't like the red channel at all. Now it seems to be very usable after all. It would be nice to get the mod done and go from there.



If you do the c19 mod, don't just clip it out. It sounds way to muddy and lame. I was at 200pf, 2 100pf's piggybacked, thought I would remove a 100pf just to see how it sounds...well it sounds like ass. Too muddy. It lost everything. I'm going to solder the other 100pf back in. 200pf has just enough bite without being muddy.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Clipped mine and gigged with it this Thurs. V30 speaker. It cut through well, sounded good with a Bad Monkey pushing the front. Treble about 4, mid 5, all it needed. Have to watch it doesn't get fizzy but it sure cranked nice in this venue.


----------



## BanditPanda

jlinde1973 said:


> If you do the c19 mod, don't just clip it out. It sounds way to muddy and lame. I was at 200pf, 2 100pf's piggybacked, thought I would remove a 100pf just to see how it sounds...well it sounds like ass. Too muddy. It lost everything. I'm going to solder the other 100pf back in. 200pf has just enough bite without being muddy.


 
Wouldn't happen to have a sound clip would you.?
Most on here usually go with 100 or 120 pf. First I've heard of it being muddy. Would like to hear the DSL40 with the 200 pf.
In fact if anyone out there has a sound clip of the amp with the 100 or 120 pf cap would like to hear that too.
B.P.


----------



## BanditPanda

Jethro Rocker said:


> Clipped mine and gigged with it this Thurs. V30 speaker. It cut through well, sounded good with a Bad Monkey pushing the front. Treble about 4, mid 5, all it needed. Have to watch it doesn't get fizzy but it sure cranked nice in this venue.



Jethro, with all the mods you've done to this amp what's with the "......Have to watch it doesn't get fizzy........"


----------



## Micky

jlinde1973 said:


> If you do the c19 mod, don't just clip it out. It sounds way to muddy and lame. I was at 200pf, 2 100pf's piggybacked, thought I would remove a 100pf just to see how it sounds...well it sounds like ass. Too muddy. It lost everything. I'm going to solder the other 100pf back in. 200pf has just enough bite without being muddy.



How it 'sounds' is very subjective, also very dependent on other mods, especially what speaker you have installed. If you play thru an external cab, it also adds more confusion to the mix.

Point is, whatever YOU like, unless you are of course trying to please someone else...


----------



## Jethro Rocker

BanditPanda said:


> Jethro, with all the mods you've done to this amp what's with the "......Have to watch it doesn't get fizzy........"



Well, C19 clip, a V30 speaker and NOS tubes. That's it for "mods". With the Monkey up front and the treble up a bit, the lead channel can get a bit fizzy if one is not careful with the gain. Given all the boosting at the front end and guitar dependent. To my ears anyways.
I really liked it, it rocked. If Monkey treble (there's a cool band name!) was up too high, it sizzled a little too much for me. Sounded vaguely fizzy to me. That's all!!


----------



## jlinde1973

BanditPanda said:


> Wouldn't happen to have a sound clip would you.?
> Most on here usually go with 100 or 120 pf. First I've heard of it being muddy. Would like to hear the DSL40 with the 200 pf.
> In fact if anyone out there has a sound clip of the amp with the 100 or 120 pf cap would like to hear that too.
> B.P.


Sorry, I've already got the value back to 200pf or I would have made some comparision clips. But trust me, the amp loses all of its character with the cap value at 100pf or less. To me it sounds like a cheap overdrive pedal. 200pf has a nice bite to it, but not nearly as icepicky as the 470pf original. If I can figure out how, I will post a 200pf clip. It sounds badass. But then again, I'm running a budda phat 12 speaker and all 4 sylvania long gray plate tubes....so mine will be much warmer sounding in that respect.


----------



## Woods

^Confirmed.


----------



## Straydog

jlinde1973 said:


> If you do the c19 mod, don't just clip it out. It sounds way to muddy and lame. I was at 200pf, 2 100pf's piggybacked, thought I would remove a 100pf just to see how it sounds...well it sounds like ass. Too muddy. It lost everything. I'm going to solder the other 100pf back in. 200pf has just enough bite without being muddy.



Thanks for that. i'll do more homework before the mod for sure.


----------



## ken361

Think my dam newer EH power tube or tubes gone microphonic! I replaced each preamp tube and still get this hum. Tapping on top of the amp you can hear the pings,when tilting the amp it get louder almost osculating then I tilt it back and its ok. Start playing then stopping it gets quiet then a little bit later I hear the hum. I take the amp to my girls each weekend so loading it and unloading it might of caused it, amp was never hot when being moved. This is one of the few amps that got moved around each weekend and never had micro phonic issues if it was it was a preamp tube


----------



## BanditPanda

jlinde1973 said:


> Sorry, I've already got the value back to 200pf or I would have made some comparision clips. But trust me, the amp loses all of its character with the cap value at 100pf or less. To me it sounds like a cheap overdrive pedal. 200pf has a nice bite to it, but not nearly as icepicky as the 470pf original. If I can figure out how, I will post a 200pf clip. It sounds badass. But then again, I'm running a budda phat 12 speaker and all 4 sylvania long gray plate tubes....so mine will be much warmer sounding in that respect.


 
OK..I've done no mods done yet and I love the " character " of this amp and wouldn't want to mess that up. I do have new set of what I think to be great tubes to replace the stockers though. Thanks for the info and let us know if you get a clip up. I'll check out the Buddha Phat.
B.P.


----------



## BanditPanda

BanditPanda said:


> OK..I've done no mods done yet and I love the " character " of this amp and wouldn't want to mess that up. I do have new set of what I think to be great tubes to replace the stockers though. Thanks for the info and let us know if you get a clip up. I'll check out the Buddha Phat.
> B.P.



While researching the Budda Phat;s I came across this statement from the founder & President of Budda:
quote "...We prefer custom speakers that bring out the best tonal qualities of our amp’s circuit and cabinetry. ..." unquote.
I wonder ,if we asked Marshall which speaker that would be for the DSL40C, what their choice would be.?
B.P.


----------



## Bownse

Hold your nose and apologies to mr. Bowie but here's my (1 take wonder) tribute to him with mix of me far too out front but enough to hear the dsl40c with the below mods and my stock Gibson lp trad pro 2. 

http://www.fjr-tips.org/misc/suffragettecity.mp3

and a couple that aren't as stinky.

http://www.fjr-tips.org/misc/Relentless.mp3
http://www.fjr-tips.org/misc/ShootToThrill.mp3


----------



## Iptron

Hello people, does anyone know whether the distortion on this amp is all valvular or just diode clipping as the JCM-900? And how well does it take overdrive/distorion pedals.

Thanks!


----------



## Micky

There is no diode clipping in a DSL40c.
No DSL's have diode clipping. None.


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

The Green channel loves od/distortion pedals, but after a few mods I find I'm not using them.


----------



## rlowe

BanditPanda said:


> OK..I've done no mods done yet and I love the " character " of this amp and wouldn't want to mess that up. I do have new set of what I think to be great tubes to replace the stockers though. Thanks for the info and let us know if you get a clip up. I'll check out the Buddha Phat.
> B.P.



I have had this amp since February 2015 with about 4 months down time 6.5 months playing time. The amp during this time as being evaluated stock was at first ice pick to my ears for a few months, but afterwords it changed much less treble. After this my stock tubes went bad and all were replaced with E34l's and Doug's preamp tube recommendation. The amp sounds mid and punchy good quality. I will probably change the stock speaker out with a Vintage 30 (70/80 is ok but would like to try something different). No mod's and like the bite this amp has. 
Try a few different OD pedals they can give that extra bite especially on leads.


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

I just received my assorted capacitors for C19 as well as some Ruby preamp tubes from the Tube Store. Time for a little surgery this weekend.


----------



## MarshallDog

Greatwhitenorth said:


> I just received my assorted capacitors for C19 as well as some Ruby preamp tubes from the Tube Store. Time for a little surgery this weekend.



A suggestion for you. What I did was solder in two 1/2" or so leads in the PCB holes were C19 is then slid a little heat shrink tubing over them for insulation reasons. Then I bent little hooks in the end of the leads of the cap that I thought was the "one" and slid it over the posts and soldered it in place. This allowed for me to try other values down the road w/o messing with the PCD board. The last think you want to do is solder in and remove components too many times.


----------



## StevieShiner

Where do you guys order these caps from and how do you know which kind to get?

Thanks!


----------



## Micky

Ceramic caps are generally available at Radio Shack.


----------



## Bownse

Micky said:


> Ceramic caps are generally available at Radio Shack.



Radio Shack shut down most of its stores months ago. The closest one I'm aware of is 180 miles away and it only carries stock that the company is trying get out of the warehouse before completely closing the business down.

In this area they had mostly moved to cell phone accessories in the recent 5 to 10 years so never had the hobbyist components they were known for "back when".

They could never figure out how to change their business model to compete with the Internet.

In my area, Fry's is a possibility but is hit or miss on anything smaller than computer boards.

National Electronic Service is excellent as is Allied Electronics although the latter is geared more toward selling to businesses, they will sell you stuff as an individual if you're willing to ask for specifics at the counter.


----------



## Bpockney45

you seem like you know what your doing 

Guys I've never used a thread before so i'm just asking for some very needed help. about 5 months ago my Marshall started making really weird sounds even if it was on stand by or no volume, got it fixed same thing happened again couple months later so Marshall sent me a new one (it was the pre-amp tubes). NOW, with all the tubes glowing, the two lights on the front of the Marshall don't turn on when i power up the amp and when i then put standby off there is close to no sound coming out. now this is the third time ive had a problem and i thinkit might be me BUT ive checked and i wait bout 10-15b mins at LEAST before turning off stand by and the same for when i turn of standby and turn the power off. 

i dont play that loud 4 TOPS on 40W with low gain. i usually play ACDC and classic rock with the occasional metal where i turn up the gain.

if theres a Marshall wizard out there who knows about this problem then i would REALLY appreciate the help as this is my first tube amp.

thanks.


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

I got my capacitors from The Tube Store with my pre-amp tube order. They were .63 cents each and didn't change the cost of shipping so I figured why not. 

Thanks for the tip MarshallDog. I'll do that. I'm going to use the alligator clips and do some experimentation before I decide on the value that I want but it would be nice to add without more major surgery.


----------



## Micky

Bpockney45 said:


> you seem like you know what your doing
> 
> Guys I've never used a thread before so i'm just asking for some very needed help. about 5 months ago my Marshall started making really weird sounds even if it was on stand by or no volume, got it fixed same thing happened again couple months later so Marshall sent me a new one (it was the pre-amp tubes). NOW, with all the tubes glowing, the two lights on the front of the Marshall don't turn on when i power up the amp and when i then put standby off there is close to no sound coming out. now this is the third time ive had a problem and i thinkit might be me BUT ive checked and i wait bout 10-15b mins at LEAST before turning off stand by and the same for when i turn of standby and turn the power off.
> 
> i dont play that loud 4 TOPS on 40W with low gain. i usually play ACDC and classic rock with the occasional metal where i turn up the gain.
> 
> if theres a Marshall wizard out there who knows about this problem then i would REALLY appreciate the help as this is my first tube amp.
> 
> thanks.



No need for multiple threads...
Check your Workbench thread.
It might be a fuse.


----------



## MarshallDog

StevieShiner said:


> Where do you guys order these caps from and how do you know which kind to get?
> 
> Thanks!



I buy mine from either Mouser or DigiTech on line. As for the type, I,either look at the existing component on the PCB board, look at the wiring diagram or ask members on this thread. For C19, I bought 100V ceramic caps.


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

The silver mica caps were super cheap too. 0.69 cents apiece. I know, I know not that it'll sound any different from ceramic.


----------



## StevieShiner

Thanks guys! I appreciate the advice on the caps. I wasn't sure of the voltage either so the 100v tip was very helpful. 
Steve


----------



## ken361

Can somebody tap behind the 40c chassis were the power tube are and see if you hear the tapping noise please. Trying to determine if the tubes are causing the hum. Thanks!!


----------



## BanditPanda

Hello everybody. Having the new tubes installed today. I have a WGS ET65 to replace the 70/80 but it is an 8 ohm speaker. I know I can use the 8 ohm jack without problem but when I move to add an extension cab I will have to replace the a 16 ohm speaker. Question: Will there be any difference in tone when using 8 ohms instead of 16 ohms?
Thanks
B.P.


----------



## Micky

BanditPanda said:


> Hello everybody. Having the new tubes installed today. I have a WGS ET65 to replace the 70/80 but it is an 8 ohm speaker. I know I can use the 8 ohm jack without problem but when I move to add an extension cab I will have to replace the a 16 ohm speaker. Question: Will there be any difference in tone when using 8 ohms instead of 16 ohms?
> Thanks
> B.P.



No difference.


----------



## Micky

ken361 said:


> Can somebody tap behind the 40c chassis were the power tube are and see if you hear the tapping noise please. Trying to determine if the tubes are causing the hum. Thanks!!



Tapping on my amp won't help in your quest to find your problem.

Take the back off YOUR amp and use a chopstick or other non-conductive stick and tap on YOUR tubes to see if one is microphonic.


----------



## BanditPanda

Speaker voicing. I have an Eminence 16 ohm speaker which is described as being part of their American voiced series. How much difference does that make? I mean is putting an American voiced speaker ( as extension cab ) in a Marshall counter intuitive?
Thanks.
B.P.


----------



## Bownse

Probably no more so that putting Americans into Viet Nam was in the 60s.


----------



## ken361

Micky said:


> Tapping on my amp won't help in your quest to find your problem.
> 
> Take the back off YOUR amp and use a chopstick or other non-conductive stick and tap on YOUR tubes to see if one is microphonic.



Asking a simple question! I had a few amps that tapping at a tube I aways hear some kind of noise but it didn't squeal or made any hum,since its so close to the power tubes were I tap behind the chassis makes me think that!


----------



## MarshallDog

ken361 said:


> Can somebody tap behind the 40c chassis were the power tube are and see if you hear the tapping noise please. Trying to determine if the tubes are causing the hum. Thanks!!



I had a similar experience a while back. If I tapped hard enough on the top of the amp near the handle, I could hear the tapping through the speakers, no squealing, etc. it turned out that a preamp tube was starting to go bad and it doesn't do it now with new tubes.


----------



## ken361

I checked all my preamp tubes the power tubes are 3 months old. The hum kind of comes and goes, its quiet and later playing I hear it again


----------



## BanditPanda

Bownse said:


> Probably no more so that putting Americans into Viet Nam was in the 60s.



Thank you Bownse. Is that a yes ?


----------



## BanditPanda

Micky said:


> No difference.



Thank you Micky...and no harm to the amp right?
B.P.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Nope, same thing. But kinda sucks when you want to add an ext cab, if you ever do.


----------



## BanditPanda

Jethro Rocker said:


> Nope, same thing. But kinda sucks when you want to add an ext cab, if you ever do.



Yes well I do have the 16 ohm Eminence Red White & Blues which I could have put in there but then came the question of putting an American voiced speaker in a British voiced amp.!!?? So I went with ( albeit temporarily ) the 8 ohm WGS ET65 which highly though of around these parts for the DSL40C.


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

Well boys, with a friend's help the surgery is complete. After a little experimentation I ended up with the 120 pF cap in the C19 spot. I took MD's advise and soldered some hooks in for piggybacking an extra capacitor if I feel the need. While I was soldering I decided to do the 50's wiring mod to my Les Paul. After I buttoned everything back up I took it for a spin. I now have the Red channel I've been looking for. Smooth with just the right amount of bite. I'd post clips, but I forgot to record it before the mods just like last time. Besides, I'm a little self conscious about posting on YouTube and having people hack on me for my sloppy playing. 
As before I wanted to say some thank yous. First thanks to Micky for this great and informative thread, and for his advise. MarshallDog for his help with some of the specific values and tricks. Jethro, Ken, and a couple of others for their recent help, and all of the other contributors in this great thread. You guys are truly awesome. I honestly can't wait till my next jam to hear it in a band setting. 

Thanks again guys, 

GWN


----------



## Micky

BanditPanda said:


> Thank you Micky...and no harm to the amp right?
> B.P.



Problem is, you can run only ONE 8-ohm cab or speaker at a time.
Using the 8-ohm outputs you can run TWO 16-ohm cabs or speakers...


----------



## Micky

Greatwhitenorth said:


> Well boys, with a friend's help the surgery is complete. After a little experimentation I ended up with the 120 pF cap in the C19 spot. I took MD's advise and soldered some hooks in for piggybacking an extra capacitor if I feel the need. While I was soldering I decided to do the 50's wiring mod to my Les Paul. After I buttoned everything back up I took it for a spin. I now have the Red channel I've been looking for. Smooth with just the right amount of bite. I'd post clips, but I forgot to record it before the mods just like last time. Besides, I'm a little self conscious about posting on YouTube and having people hack on me for my sloppy playing.
> As before I wanted to say some thank yous. First thanks to Micky for this great and informative thread, and for his advise. MarshallDog for his help with some of the specific values and tricks. Jethro, Ken, and a couple of others for their recent help, and all of the other contributors in this great thread. You guys are truly awesome. I honestly can't wait till my next jam to hear it in a band setting.
> 
> Thanks again guys,
> 
> GWN



This thread serves to benefit all of YOU. I didn't do this for me, I needed a reference point for all the options you can do with this amp. I had no idea at the time this amp would be so incredibly popular, but in doing so, I have learned a lot.

This thread really is as good as it is because of all of YOU. You guys are the ones who have made major contributions, and by posting your experiences it is a tremendous resource to others. It is the top DSL40c search item in Google, and I have had countless members join up just to ask questions via PM. Many are no longer participating, but there are many others here to step up and take their place.

Just keep posting stuff, asking questions and helping others and I can guarantee you that everyone will benefit.


----------



## MarshallDog

Micky said:


> This thread serves to benefit all of YOU. I didn't do this for me, I needed a reference point for all the options you can do with this amp. I had no idea at the time this amp would be so incredibly popular, but in doing so, I have learned a lot.
> 
> This thread really is as good as it is because of all of YOU. You guys are the ones who have made major contributions, and by posting your experiences it is a tremendous resource to others. It is the top DSL40c search item in Google, and I have had countless members join up just to ask questions via PM. Many are no longer participating, but there are many others here to step up and take their place.
> 
> Just keep posting stuff, asking questions and helping others and I can guarantee you that everyone will benefit.



I agree and second Mickys post, just glad we can be of some assisatnce. I for one have benefitted from others on this Forum, pay it forward as they say...and rock on


----------



## MarshallDog

Greatwhitenorth said:


> Well boys, with a friend's help the surgery is complete. After a little experimentation I ended up with the 120 pF cap in the C19 spot. I took MD's advise and soldered some hooks in for piggybacking an extra capacitor if I feel the need. While I was soldering I decided to do the 50's wiring mod to my Les Paul. After I buttoned everything back up I took it for a spin. I now have the Red channel I've been looking for. Smooth with just the right amount of bite. I'd post clips, but I forgot to record it before the mods just like last time. Besides, I'm a little self conscious about posting on YouTube and having people hack on me for my sloppy playing.
> As before I wanted to say some thank yous. First thanks to Micky for this great and informative thread, and for his advise. MarshallDog for his help with some of the specific values and tricks. Jethro, Ken, and a couple of others for their recent help, and all of the other contributors in this great thread. You guys are truly awesome. I honestly can't wait till my next jam to hear it in a band setting.
> 
> Thanks again guys,
> 
> GWN



So you like the 50s wiring on your LPS? Mine are all modern and I have thought about changing one but chickened out. What is it that you like better about it? Thanks...MD


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

The 50's mod consists of changing the configuration of the tone cap across the volume and tone pot. It was very easy to do and easily reversible if you don't like it. It keeps the treble at the same level when you turn down the volume. I noticed that it really made my guitar clean up better when I roll off the volume. The trade off is that when you roll your tone knob down it can cause the volume to drop. I didn't roll my tone knob all the way down when I tried it out so I'm not sure how much volume you lose. Mind you, I never roll my tone off by more than half. I did the mod on both the bridge and neck pickups and really like the results. If you want to keep your wiring modern you can keep the treble in the circuit with a "treble bleed" mod. This consists of putting a 600-1000pF cap with a 130-150 kohm resistor in parallel across two lugs of the volume pot. Now that I've done the 50's mod on my Standard I'm going to do it on my LP Jr. as well. That's how much I like it.


----------



## MarshallDog

Greatwhitenorth said:


> The 50's mod consists of changing the configuration of the tone cap across the volume and tone pot. It was very easy to do and easily reversible if you don't like it. It keeps the treble at the same level when you turn down the volume. I noticed that it really made my guitar clean up better when I roll off the volume. The trade off is that when you roll your tone knob down it can cause the volume to drop. I didn't roll my tone knob all the way down when I tried it out so I'm not sure how much volume you lose. Mind you, I never roll my tone off by more than half. I did the mod on both the bridge and neck pickups and really like the results. If you want to keep your wiring modern you can keep the treble in the circuit with a "treble bleed" mod. This consists of putting a 600-1000pF cap with a 130-150 kohm resistor in parallel across two lugs of the volume pot. Now that I've done the 50's mod on my Standard I'm going to do it on my LP Jr. as well. That's how much I like it.



Thanks for the great explanation, I may have to try this sometime:


----------



## jlinde1973

Greatwhitenorth said:


> Well boys, with a friend's help the surgery is complete. After a little experimentation I ended up with the 120 pF cap in the C19 spot. I took MD's advise and soldered some hooks in for piggybacking an extra capacitor if I feel the need. While I was soldering I decided to do the 50's wiring mod to my Les Paul. After I buttoned everything back up I took it for a spin. I now have the Red channel I've been looking for. Smooth with just the right amount of bite. I'd post clips, but I forgot to record it before the mods just like last time. Besides, I'm a little self conscious about posting on YouTube and having people hack on me for my sloppy playing.
> As before I wanted to say some thank yous. First thanks to Micky for this great and informative thread, and for his advise. MarshallDog for his help with some of the specific values and tricks. Jethro, Ken, and a couple of others for their recent help, and all of the other contributors in this great thread. You guys are truly awesome. I honestly can't wait till my next jam to hear it in a band setting.
> 
> Thanks again guys,
> 
> GWN



I actually went up in value on my c19 cap and like it better. I started off at 200pf and liked it, but something just wasn't right....so I went down to 100pf. Wow! What a mistake. It lost all of the chime and characteristic marshall bark. So I went back to 200pf and though sounded good, still had a touch of muddiness....so I piggybacked a little 20pf on the 200. Perfect! At 220pf, the amp has much more bark and chime and pick detail. I'm done this time as it sounds perfect...now my next project is to add a 20pf to c4, the clean channel bright cap. I want just a touch more bark out of my crunch mode and I think it will be just the trick.


----------



## Micky

jlinde1973 said:


> I actually went up in value on my c19 cap and like it better. I started off at 200pf and liked it, but something just wasn't right....so I went down to 100pf. Wow! What a mistake. It lost all of the chime and characteristic marshall bark. So I went back to 200pf and though sounded good, still had a touch of muddiness....so I piggybacked a little 20pf on the 200. Perfect! At 220pf, the amp has much more bark and chime and pick detail. I'm done this time as it sounds perfect...now my next project is to add a 20pf to c4, the clean channel bright cap. I want just a touch more bark out of my crunch mode and I think it will be just the trick.



As I have said in the past, the C19 value is very dependent on a few things. Such as the speaker you have installed, the tubes you are using and the way your tone 'sounds' in the mix or wherever you play. Could also even depend on the type of music you play as well as the guitars and pickups you use.

Tone is very subjective...


----------



## BanditPanda

Micky said:


> As I have said in the past, the C19 value is very dependent on a few things. Such as the speaker you have installed, the tubes you are using and the way your tone 'sounds' in the mix or wherever you play. Could also even depend on the type of music you play as well as the guitars and pickups you use.
> .



And lest forget this mod affects only the Ultra Gain channel
B.P.


----------



## riefil

Greatwhitenorth said:


> The 50's mod consists of changing the configuration of the tone cap across the volume and tone pot. It was very easy to do and easily reversible if you don't like it. It keeps the treble at the same level when you turn down the volume. I noticed that it really made my guitar clean up better when I roll off the volume. The trade off is that when you roll your tone knob down it can cause the volume to drop. I didn't roll my tone knob all the way down when I tried it out so I'm not sure how much volume you lose. Mind you, I never roll my tone off by more than half. I did the mod on both the bridge and neck pickups and really like the results. If you want to keep your wiring modern you can keep the treble in the circuit with a "treble bleed" mod. This consists of putting a 600-1000pF cap with a 130-150 kohm resistor in parallel across two lugs of the volume pot. Now that I've done the 50's mod on my Standard I'm going to do it on my LP Jr. as well. That's how much I like it.



Greatwhite, I recently changed to 50's wiring too. I notice a big difference, for the better. The clarity I gained is very noticeable. I can now clean up, especially on the bridge pickup, quite nicely. I didn't think it would be as noticeable on the neck pickup but it certainly is. I find myself using volume and tone controls more. Best 5 minute mod I've ever done. As you stated, it's just as easy to reverse if you don't like it.


----------



## LckydevL

Hello,

Thought I would drop a line or two and let you guys know how much this thread and your opinions and experiences have helped me. I got the DSL40 amp from Sweetwater with the Creamback deal about two months ago. I play twice a day for a few hours and broke my amp in pretty quickly. The amp, the speaker and even the tube swapping I did were all due to the posts in this thread. I am very happy with my amp and again would like to say thanks. And keep this thread going, guys!


----------



## Knopfler

Has anyone tried with Celestion Alnico speaker in this amp?


----------



## PtTimeRckr

Knopfler said:


> Has anyone tried with Celestion Alnico speaker in this amp?



I built a box to use my DSL40c with a vintage Altec cabinet 2x10 with vintage CTS alnicos. Not the same as what you're asking, but the amp is much brighter with more mid punch and less mud/power than the seventy-80. I can use combo, cab or both with this setup and get three distinct sounds out of it, if that helps.


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

LckydevL said:


> Hello,
> 
> Thought I would drop a line or two and let you guys know how much this thread and your opinions and experiences have helped me. I got the DSL40 amp from Sweetwater with the Creamback deal about two months ago. I play twice a day for a few hours and broke my amp in pretty quickly. The amp, the speaker and even the tube swapping I did were all due to the posts in this thread. I am very happy with my amp and again would like to say thanks. And keep this thread going, guys!



Congrats on the amp and welcome to the forum. Lots of knowledge in this group.


----------



## BanditPanda

BanditPanda said:


> the 8 ohm WGS ET65 which highly though of around these parts for the DSL40C.


 
I have been told that you CAN run 2 X 8 ohm speakers with the DSL40C.
That it's merely a question of how they are wired..series or parallel.
Is that wrong information ?
B.P.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

You could run in series off the 16 ohm oitput but it's painful! If 1 speaker is hooked up in the internal, the other has to stay attached to it. Or, if you unclip one connection, MAKE SURE YOU RECONNECT before turning amp on. Painful. Really not a good way yo do it at all. You are waaayyy better off with 1x16, 2x16, or 1x8.


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

riefil said:


> Greatwhite, I recently changed to 50's wiring too. I notice a big difference, for the better. The clarity I gained is very noticeable. I can now clean up, especially on the bridge pickup, quite nicely. I didn't think it would be as noticeable on the neck pickup but it certainly is. I find myself using volume and tone controls more. Best 5 minute mod I've ever done. As you stated, it's just as easy to reverse if you don't like it.



Cheer bro. I can't believe I waited as long as I did to do this mod. I'm almost as impressed with it as my C19 change.


----------



## Knopfler

Greatwhitenorth said:


> Cheer bro. I can't believe I waited as long as I did to do this mod. I'm almost as impressed with it as my C19 change.



I have read; If you do the MOD speaker G12M 65 is not necessasry do C19 Mod. IT IS CORRECT?
C19 MOD is only for speaker 70/80???

C19 Mod, is basically just touched a lo-powered soldering pencil to one leg and pried up the cap. It is correct?.

Thanks!


----------



## Micky

Knopfler said:


> I have read; If you do the MOD speaker G12M 65 is not necessasry do C19 Mod. IT IS CORRECT?
> C19 MOD is only for speaker 70/80???
> 
> C19 Mod, is basically just touched a lo-powered soldering pencil to one leg and pried up the cap. It is correct?.
> 
> Thanks!



No, not necessarily correct. There are many speakers that are 'bright' and could benefit from an adjusted C19 value. I think what many are saying here is that you may not need to adjust C19 with a different speaker than the stock one.

And sometimes the legs of the cap are 'bent' underneath the board and difficult to pull one leg just from unsoldering it.


----------



## jlinde1973

No I think the c19 mod needs to be done regardless of the speaker. The value of the cap installed after the clip will be determined by the speaker chosen. I run dark speaker and tubes and 220pf works perfect for me. Brighter speaker and tubes, 120 pf might work better. But either way, the stock 470pf is just too bright unless you play the amp with volume half way up or more.


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

Knopfler said:


> I have read; If you do the MOD speaker G12M 65 is not necessasry do C19 Mod. IT IS CORRECT?
> C19 MOD is only for speaker 70/80???
> 
> C19 Mod, is basically just touched a lo-powered soldering pencil to one leg and pried up the cap. It is correct?.
> 
> Thanks!



First off, yes. All you do is either use a soldering iron or a set of wire cutters(as I did) and clip one leg of the C19 cap.

Second, as Micky states, you should try the speaker/tube swap first before doing the C19 mod. I had already swapped out the 70/80 stock speaker with a WGS Retro 30 which is supposed to be a brighter version of a Celestion Vintage 30. The thing I found, and read here, is that the mod changes the gain, taking away the brightness of the amp compared to having it in the circuit(thus being called the bright cap). Removing the cap entirely(or lifting the leg) reminded me of a "fuzz" sound similar to what I would get with my Big Muff turned all the way down, but better. The sound with C19 removed was instantly better to my ears, but I knew right away that it needed some of the bite back in the circuit. With the advise of some of the folks around here I decided to buy an assortment of capacitors ranging from 20pF to 120pf. This way I could use some alligator clips and try different capacitors to find one, or a combination that I liked. I ended up going with the 120pF cap by itself, but I left some extensions off of the cap so that I can add others if I feel the need. I have a jam coming up on Super Bowl weekend so that I can see if this is where I'm going to leave it. 
As with all things you read on here, it's all up to your personal preference. Some guys love the amp as is, some swap speakers or tubes and they find that works. Find what works for you and rock on.


----------



## Knopfler

Micky said:


> No, not necessarily correct. There are many speakers that are 'bright' and could benefit from an adjusted C19 value. I think what many are saying here is that you may not need to adjust C19 with a different speaker than the stock one.
> 
> And sometimes the legs of the cap are 'bent' underneath the board and difficult to pull one leg just from unsoldering it.



In that case the solution would be to cut it, without the possibility of re-welding except buying a new component


----------



## Knopfler

Greatwhitenorth said:


> First off, yes. All you do is either use a soldering iron or a set of wire cutters(as I did) and clip one leg of the C19 cap.
> 
> Second, as Micky states, you should try the speaker/tube swap first before doing the C19 mod. I had already swapped out the 70/80 stock speaker with a WGS Retro 30 which is supposed to be a brighter version of a Celestion Vintage 30. The thing I found, and read here, is that the mod changes the gain, taking away the brightness of the amp compared to having it in the circuit(thus being called the bright cap). Removing the cap entirely(or lifting the leg) reminded me of a "fuzz" sound similar to what I would get with my Big Muff turned all the way down, but better. The sound with C19 removed was instantly better to my ears, but I knew right away that it needed some of the bite back in the circuit. With the advise of some of the folks around here I decided to buy an assortment of capacitors ranging from 20pF to 120pf. This way I could use some alligator clips and try different capacitors to find one, or a combination that I liked. I ended up going with the 120pF cap by itself, but I left some extensions off of the cap so that I can add others if I feel the need. I have a jam coming up on Super Bowl weekend so that I can see if this is where I'm going to leave it.
> As with all things you read on here, it's all up to your personal preference. Some guys love the amp as is, some swap speakers or tubes and they find that works. Find what works for you and rock on.



Very interesting.

Thank you so much


----------



## Bownse

What everyone is saying is that what you "need" (want) is entirely based on your preferences. Speaker and tube swaps are easier to reverse if you don't like the results. Try them first and address C19 only if you think you still need to after playing with the other changes.


----------



## Micky

Bownse said:


> What everyone is saying is that what you "need" (want) is entirely based on your preferences. Speaker and tube swaps are easier to reverse if you don't like the results. Try them first and address C19 only if you think you still need to after playing with the other changes.



This.


----------



## jep1210

I'm conceding defeat. after numerous tube swaps/combinations and bias settings, I just can't get this DSL to sound like I want. The only thing I haven't tried is a speaker swap. After all the other changes I've tried, I don't have much confidence it'll be worth it for me to go that route. I hope I'm not overlooking the one mod that'll get me there.   I guess I just don't have the skills to get what I want from it. I have one more tube combination that is going to get tested at Friday's gig...provided the snow doesn't cancel it. We'll see if that changes my mind. Either way, I have learned a lot in this process and from this great thread. 

Notice I was very careful to NOT say this amp sucks, FWIW. I don't feel it is, it's just not what I'm looking for.


----------



## Micky

jep1210 said:


> it's just not what I'm looking for.



So what ARE you looking for?
What is it you are trying to dial in?
What sound are you after?

There is a possibility that this is not the amp for you.
I recently had a friend try mine, and after a while, he said flat out, that it has too much distortion. Then he tried my '77 Fender Princeton Reverb. Only after we cranked it way up did it get distorted, and that is what he was looking for. He wanted clean, and needed that in order to use his collection of pedals.

I tried to explain that Marshalls do clean as well, it is just you need to get a higher-powered one to get the clean 'headroom' he wanted. He wanted my Fender, but I will never let it go...


----------



## BanditPanda

Speaking with my tech last night. I had requested that he bias at 39 mA as most of you do . He told me that the amp came out of the factory at 34mA and that in his opinion we should trust the factory to know what they are doing. If there is something wrong sound/tone wise then we can re bias.
34mA would seem to be somewhat on the cold side would it not.?
Anyway I'll trust his advice and learn how it sounds with the new tubes and at 34mA
B.P.


----------



## Micky

So where did he get his info?
From Marshall directly?
From a Technical Service Bulletin?

My opinion is that 39 is too hot.
30-35 is good for me with EL34's...


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

Bownse said:


> What everyone is saying is that what you "need" (want) is entirely based on your preferences. Speaker and tube swaps are easier to reverse if you don't like the results. Try them first and address C19 only if you think you still need to after playing with the other changes.



Like


----------



## BanditPanda

Micky said:


> So where did he get his info?
> From Marshall directly?
> From a Technical Service Bulletin?
> My opinion is that 39 is too hot.
> 30-35 is good for me with EL34's...



Micky the only info he used was what the factory setting was.He advised to leave it at that.
My info from here where it seems most players are biasing from 38 to 42 mA.
B.P.


----------



## ken361

I use 38 just gets into the hot territory


----------



## MarshallDog

ken361 said:


> I use 38 just gets into the hot territory



I've been using the 48 pF lately


----------



## MarshallDog

BanditPanda said:


> Micky the only info he used was what the factory setting was.He advised to leave it at that.
> My info from here where it seems most players are biasing from 38 to 42 mA.
> B.P.



I always cringe when I see info about setting the bias between two mA ranges, Why, you dont want to exceed 70% dissipation on an EL34 and the only way to safely and accurately do this is by knowing the plate voltage. P = I * V so as the plate voltage goes down, the bias current goes up and vise versa. Plate voltage varies with wall voltage then there are variances in tubes...I just do get statements like this. You can also use a scope but still voltage is a variable. Am I missing something here


----------



## jlinde1973

BanditPanda said:


> Speaking with my tech last night. I had requested that he bias at 39 mA as most of you do . He told me that the amp came out of the factory at 34mA and that in his opinion we should trust the factory to know what they are doing. If there is something wrong sound/tone wise then we can re bias.
> 34mA would seem to be somewhat on the cold side would it not.?
> Anyway I'll trust his advice and learn how it sounds with the new tubes and at 34mA
> B.P.


Hmm. Mine came from the factory at 46ma. Yes, mine sounded lame at 34ma. I personally like mine at 42ma. Nice and hot around 78%


----------



## wolfpack

Micky said:


> So where did he get his info?
> From Marshall directly?
> From a Technical Service Bulletin?
> 
> My opinion is that 39 is too hot.
> 30-35 is good for me with EL34's...



Yep
32 has the best results for me


----------



## ken361

MarshallDog said:


> I always cringe when I see info about setting the bias between two mA ranges, Why, you dont want to exceed 70% dissipation on an EL34 and the only way to safely and accurately do this is by knowing the plate voltage. P = I * V so as the plate voltage goes down, the bias current goes up and vise versa. Plate voltage varies with wall voltage then there are variances in tubes...I just do get statements like this. You can also use a scope but still voltage is a variable. Am I missing something here



mine was 450 I believe and biased at 38.5


----------



## ken361

Real hot and the red channel will be more brighter and tighter and too cold will warmer and less tight and some flubby


----------



## ken361

http://www.tedweber.com/webervst/tubes1/calcbias.htm


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

I checked the bias on mine when I had it apart this weekend and it was way out. 29 and 34 if I remember correctly. I usually check it if I have it out of the cabinet so I was surprised to see it out by so much. I did a quick adjustment to 37mA on each side and it seems to be good. To be honest, I've never checked the plate voltage. I just went with the range that sounded the best to me. I also haven't had to change power tubes other than to suit my preference.


----------



## ken361

Greatwhitenorth said:


> I checked the bias on mine when I had it apart this weekend and it was way out. 29 and 34 if I remember correctly. I usually check it if I have it out of the cabinet so I was surprised to see it out by so much. I did a quick adjustment to 37mA on each side and it seems to be good. To be honest, I've never checked the plate voltage. I just went with the range that sounded the best to me. I also haven't had to change power tubes other than to suit my preference.



should sound better and feel!


----------



## IRG

Just ordered new tubes from Doug's tubes, went with his recommendation for this amp. We shall see, but anything has to be an improvement. Mine are getting quite noisy now, they just haven't last very long at all. And I don't play it all that often, or for very long, or very loudly - sad to say. The original tubes in my Fender Fender Humboldt Hot Rod v2 still work great.

I will say, that I think I'm at the point now with this amp that I know it. And I prefer getting my gain from pedals. Didn't want to admit that, or go that route, but it is just the way it is. The exception is when I use my one PRS guitar, tuned down to drop C, then I like the red channel, lead 2. Mostly for the heavy stuff. But I'm not using it that way very often.

I'm mostly using the green channel, on clean. Gain at 6, volume at 6. Very nice clean tone, and imo, a great platform for pedals. Pedals for gain include a Catalinbread 5F6 used for a lower gain Fender type tone, nice platform for some added grit. Might add a Catalinbread DLS soon, to get the Marshall tones I'm not really liking from the red channel.

I'm also using a Wampler Clarksdale for medium+ gain. It can sound similar to the red channel, but I like the lower end bass response on the Wampler pedal, and I can easier dial out the higher gain fizz I get from the red channel. The two are close, but I'm just digging the Wampler more right now. Finally I'm using a JHS Muffuletta muff pedal, and that thing just rips.

What I like about the DSL40c at this point: Very nice clean tone, eq helpful in getting the right balance, with pedals doing the rest. What I don't like: switching to the red channel usually involves me having to increase the bass and decreasing the treble controls, along with twiddling the volume/gain controls and sometimes the resonance/presence controls. Versus, sticking with the green channel, and just stomping on a pedal for better tone, with less fiddling. Dual EQ would be great on this amp, almost a necessity, I didn't want to think it was at first, but it is.

Also, I recall a thread somewhere here, about requesting two green channels, and I agree, instead of the red channel. Maybe a slightly hotter green channel, and one that is clean. I can see the appeal now.

Hopefully the new tubes will make the red channel more usable.


----------



## ken361

I use the red a lot and the crunch I set my eq treb at 3, mids 4 or 5, bass depends were im playing and resonance at 6 and pres at 5. 3 old stock preamp tubes and a Tungsol in the V1 and no issues from switching from crunch to red 1 gain at 6 or 7 it stays tight and focused with my les Paul! I owned manyyy amps just gotta dial your gear in! mess with pups and pole pieces and use quality cables. 

Not rocket science, people here always think its the amp yeah it can be bright most amps the treble is set 5 to 7, this one 3 is good and use a warmer picks no cheap crap! lol. My MIM strat stock pups on the neck pup sounds pretty dam sweet on the red one with the gain back at 3 or so! vintage 60's blues rock tones. Gary Moore,Trower, Hendrix.


----------



## ken361

Having a good stash of tubes is always good! buy all kinds new and old stock, some amps like certain tubes over others I found out over the years. Marshalls loves the warmer older tubes because there voiced bright.


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

IRG said:


> Just ordered new tubes from Doug's tubes, went with his recommendation for this amp. We shall see, but anything has to be an improvement. Mine are getting quite noisy now, they just haven't last very long at all. And I don't play it all that often, or for very long, or very loudly - sad to say. The original tubes in my Fender Fender Humboldt Hot Rod v2 still work great.
> 
> I will say, that I think I'm at the point now with this amp that I know it. And I prefer getting my gain from pedals. Didn't want to admit that, or go that route, but it is just the way it is. The exception is when I use my one PRS guitar, tuned down to drop C, then I like the red channel, lead 2. Mostly for the heavy stuff. But I'm not using it that way very often.
> 
> I'm mostly using the green channel, on clean. Gain at 6, volume at 6. Very nice clean tone, and imo, a great platform for pedals. Pedals for gain include a Catalinbread 5F6 used for a lower gain Fender type tone, nice platform for some added grit. Might add a Catalinbread DLS soon, to get the Marshall tones I'm not really liking from the red channel.
> 
> I'm also using a Wampler Clarksdale for medium+ gain. It can sound similar to the red channel, but I like the lower end bass response on the Wampler pedal, and I can easier dial out the higher gain fizz I get from the red channel. The two are close, but I'm just digging the Wampler more right now. Finally I'm using a JHS Muffuletta muff pedal, and that thing just rips.
> 
> What I like about the DSL40c at this point: Very nice clean tone, eq helpful in getting the right balance, with pedals doing the rest. What I don't like: switching to the red channel usually involves me having to increase the bass and decreasing the treble controls, along with twiddling the volume/gain controls and sometimes the resonance/presence controls. Versus, sticking with the green channel, and just stomping on a pedal for better tone, with less fiddling. Dual EQ would be great on this amp, almost a necessity, I didn't want to think it was at first, but it is.
> 
> Also, I recall a thread somewhere here, about requesting two green channels, and I agree, instead of the red channel. Maybe a slightly hotter green channel, and one that is clean. I can see the appeal now.
> 
> Hopefully the new tubes will make the red channel more usable.



This was me exactly. I played through Green clean with my Rat, Big Muff, Bad Monkey, and Soul Food. The Bad Monkey still has a place on my board, but only as a boost now that I've done the C19 swap. The Red channel had too much sizzle for lack of a better term. EQ changes are not required now with the channels matching up. I found that the C19 mod made all the difference for me.


----------



## BanditPanda

Jethro Rocker said:


> You could run in series off the 16 ohm oitput but it's painful! If 1 speaker is hooked up in the internal, the other has to stay attached to it. Or, if you unclip one connection, MAKE SURE YOU RECONNECT before turning amp on. Painful. Really not a good way yo do it at all. You are waaayyy better off with 1x16, 2x16, or 1x8.


 
Thank you Jethro. I'll definitely go the 2 x 16 ohm route.
B.P.


----------



## ken361

Greatwhitenorth said:


> This was me exactly. I played through Green clean with my Rat, Big Muff, Bad Monkey, and Soul Food. The Bad Monkey still has a place on my board, but only as a boost now that I've done the C19 swap. The Red channel had too much sizzle for lack of a better term. EQ changes are not required now with the channels matching up. I found that the C19 mod made all the difference for me.


 Heres a tip I noticed with pedals

Those pedals are killing the amps natural tone and sucking the bass out some! BM is a good clean boost buts it not true bypass and when you shut it off the signal is cutting your highs and lows out. I a/b it back and for loud many of times the crunch channel lost some luster and warmth and the red wasn't as beefy! Best was is plugging straight in and use a delay or ect. in the loop. Go ahead and play loud with all the pedals and the strait in see if you notice anything. Its not huge but its there! pedals sound warmer with a battery or a good power supply over a One spot.

I used the Bogner red and blue for 2 years with a Blues deluxe and then a 68 custom twin. They couldnt do a Marshall as good as a Marshall they were pretty close but the amps natural distortion was bit warmer. 

If you dont like the red try the EVH 5150 pedal it was awesome when I played with a DSL 100h on the clean channel at the store .


----------



## IRG

ken361 said:


> Heres a tip I noticed with pedals
> 
> Those pedals are killing the amps natural tone and sucking the bass out some! BM is a good clean boost buts it not true bypass and when you shut it off the signal is cutting your highs and lows out. I a/b it back and for loud many of times the crunch channel lost some luster and warmth and the red wasn't as beefy! Best was is plugging straight in and use a delay or ect. in the loop. Go ahead and play loud with all the pedals and the strait in see if you notice anything. Its not huge but its there! pedals sound warmer with a battery or a good power supply over a One spot.
> 
> I used the Bogner red and blue for 2 years with a Blues deluxe and then a 68 custom twin. They couldnt do a Marshall as good as a Marshall they were pretty close but the amps natural distortion was bit warmer.
> 
> If you dont like the red try the EVH 5150 pedal it was awesome when I played with a DSL 100h on the clean channel at the store .




Good pedals will not suck tone when off, period. They can be either true bypass, or buffered. Depends on the design, and the components used - like good amps. I do LOTS of testing of various pedals, and get paid to do so. But some, like the now retired Bad Monkey, did have a buffer issue - in my experience as well. The Hardwire series was a big improvement, although that's now been discontinued too.

In any event, some pedals just match up better with certain amps, and guitars/pickups. Lots of trial and error sometimes. But I found like a lot of people, tubescreamers are a pretty good match with Marshall amps, and the Wampler is stellar, with a separate 3 band EQ for much better flexibility.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

jep1210 said:


> I'm conceding defeat. after numerous tube swaps/combinations and bias settings, I just can't get this DSL to sound like I want. The only thing I haven't tried is a speaker swap. After all the other changes I've tried, I don't have much confidence it'll be worth it for me to go that route. I hope I'm not overlooking the one mod that'll get me there.   I guess I just don't have the skills to get what I want from it. I have one more tube combination that is going to get tested at Friday's gig...provided the snow doesn't cancel it. We'll see if that changes my mind. Either way, I have learned a lot in this process and from this great thread.
> 
> Notice I was very careful to NOT say this amp sucks, FWIW. I don't feel it is, it's just not what I'm looking for.



As Micky asks, what sound are you after? A speaker swap is the biggest factor tonally. In what ways does it not work?


----------



## ken361

IRG said:


> Good pedals will not suck tone when off, period. They can be either true bypass, or buffered. Depends on the design, and the components used - like good amps. I do LOTS of testing of various pedals, and get paid to do so. But some, like the now retired Bad Monkey, did have a buffer issue - in my experience as well. The Hardwire series was a big improvement, although that's now been discontinued too.
> 
> In any event, some pedals just match up better with certain amps, and guitars/pickups. Lots of trial and error sometimes. But I found like a lot of people, tubescreamers are a pretty good match with Marshall amps, and the Wampler is stellar, with a separate 3 band EQ for much better flexibility.



I meant mostly the BM like you said and sometimes buffers can alter tone in one way or the other.


----------



## IRG

ken361 said:


> I meant mostly the BM like you said and sometimes buffers can alter tone in one way or the other.



Gotcha, and agree.


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

I truly have no frame of reference regarding high dollar pedals. I've had the Monkey for years and the DSL is the amp that it works with the best. It may color the tone a bit, but in the right way for my taste. I've plugged straight in to the amp several times, including since I did the C19 mod and although I do love the sound, I find that I love it even more with it in front of the amp.


----------



## jep1210

Jethro Rocker said:


> As Micky asks, what sound are you after? A speaker swap is the biggest factor tonally. In what ways does it not work?





Micky said:


> So what ARE you looking for?
> What is it you are trying to dial in?
> What sound are you after?
> 
> There is a possibility that this is not the amp for you.
> I recently had a friend try mine, and after a while, he said flat out, that it has too much distortion. Then he tried my '77 Fender Princeton Reverb. Only after we cranked it way up did it get distorted, and that is what he was looking for. He wanted clean, and needed that in order to use his collection of pedals.
> 
> I tried to explain that Marshalls do clean as well, it is just you need to get a higher-powered one to get the clean 'headroom' he wanted. He wanted my Fender, but I will never let it go...



Well that right there is a big part of my frustration, I can't find a way to explain what it is I'm looking for in an articulate way. All I can say is the distortion in this thing is too "harsh", even with external distortions. I have the bass dial at 8 and the treble at 2 and it's still too harsh/bright/. To me, the distortion is too gravely...if that's a word...and I'm looking for a "smoother" (big?) sound. I visualize the difference in sound being between 36 grit sand paper and 100 grit sand paper, I'm looking for a 100 grit sound and I'm getting 36 grit.  Corny I know, but hopefully that paints the picture. I'm actually quite pleased with the clean I can get from it. There was a video posted in this thread, I believe. I really liked the tone the guy in video was getting, it really is a great sound and more along the lines of what I'm looking for tone wise. I'll see if I can find it. I realize he was playing through a head and cabinet set up so maybe that's the answer, but honestly I don't want to get into lugging that kind of equipment around being as most of the places we play are really tight on space.

Ah! Here it is [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zN9jHt6ml_E[/ame]

That, to me, was sound I was expecting from a tube amp and what made me go that route. 

Jethro, to be clear, I didn't actually do a speaker swap. I considered going the Creamback route based on what I've read but I really didn't want to throw over a hundred dollars into a mod that won't get me where I want to be. Admittedly I am temp to give it try, but my frugal nature is making hesitant.


----------



## BanditPanda

jep1210 said:


> Jethro, to be clear, I didn't actually do a speaker swap. I considered going the Creamback route based on what I've read but I really didn't want to throw over a hundred dollars into a mod that won't get me where I want to be. Admittedly I am temp to give it try, but my frugal nature is making hesitant.


Before you make a jump to the Creamback of course you must find out what else is out there and at what price. I found, and granted only from PC Internet generated sound, that the Creamback may indeed be smooth and creamy but at the same time it does remove some of that Marshallness ( edge / wildness ) Check out the WGS ET65 or their Veteran 30. Both highly thought of and at half the price. Some players also let the stock 70/80 break in fully and begin to appreciate it also. ymmv
B.P.


----------



## jep1210

BanditPanda said:


> Before you make a jump to the Creamback of course you must find out what else is out there and at what price. I found, and granted only from PC Internet generated sound, that the Creamback may indeed be smooth and creamy but at the same time it does remove some of that Marshallness ( edge / wildness ) Check out the WGS ET65 or their Veteran 30. Both highly thought of and at half the price. Some players also let the stock 70/80 break in fully and begin to appreciate it also. ymmv
> B.P.



Yeah, I hear you but that's the problem. That's a lot of money to be shelling and lots of time sending stuff back, ordering something new, trying it, sending that back ect. It just all seems extremely cumbersome for what might not make all that much difference in the end.


----------



## Bownse

Picked up a "shop discount" Epiphone SG G-310. Clearly a shop beater (and the price reflected it). Probably used for lessons and when someone wanted to test an amp. Finish nicks and strap wear. A cock-eyed tuner. Loose neck, tuners, switch, and output jack. A fretboard so grimy that it looked like the joint to the fret/board were fillets. Some fret wear.

Got it home, tightened up everything, removed the strings, gave it a good cleaning and new strings. Plays and sounds good and will be something to bring out when the grand kids are around or when wanting to go somewhere I'd not want to risk my nicer guitar with.

Top row: Before
Nick in finish to the right edge half way between the nobs.
Dirty fret board with the frets so crusty they are hazy.
The cleaning cloth AFTER attacking the board with lemon oil and a soft-bristle tooth brush and a very light hand on a tooth pick.

Bottom row: After
See the bent tuner?
Fretboard and body much improved.






I could buy some replacement tuners from guitarfetish.com and still be on the good side of the deal.

The Les Paul is a bucket of cream. This one's an AC/DC screamer. Did some AC/DC and Lita Ford through the mighty Marshall and it's a great compliment to the Lester.


----------



## PU239

Found out at NAMM that the DSL40C was the biggest selling amp last year worldwide.


----------



## Micky

PU239 said:


> Found out at NAMM that the DSL40C was the biggest selling amp last year worldwide.



Kinda already knew that...

So where are all the NAMM photos?


----------



## Codeman

Hey everyone,

I haven't seen a lot of sound bites through this thread so I figured I would add a clip just to give a glimpse of what a modded DSL can sound like.(not that it's the best but it's better than no soundbite right?)
Honestly, this sounds pretty good to me. See what you think. 

As a side note, I have been writing this for a little while, but never settled on a solo so I just threw one together for the recording. Nevertheless, happy listening. 

Amp Used:
'14 Marshall DSL 40C
-Tubes: TAD7025WA, Mullard RI, Svetlana, Svetlana, TADEL34B-STR
-Speaker: G12H75

Settings Used:

Lead 2: 
Volume: .5-1 Gain:7 Treble:5 Middle:2 Bass:7 Presence:7 Resonance:7
Reverb:5

Guitar Used:
'15 PRS SE Custom 24 "Floyd" 30th Anniversary Edition

Recording Equipment:
AKG Perception 120 Condenser Microphone off center and panned left
Tascam DR40 2 feet away positioned high center from speaker panned right

[SC]https://soundcloud.com/cody-baggett/post-mod-sound-test[/SC]


----------



## BanditPanda

Codeman said:


> I haven't seen a lot of sound bites through this thread so I figured I would add a clip just to give a glimpse of what a modded DSL can sound like.(not that it's the best but it's better than no soundbite right?)
> 
> 
> Codeman said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're right Cody and the amp does sound great. Thanks for posting.
> B.P.
Click to expand...


----------



## Codeman

BanditPanda said:


> I haven't seen a lot of sound bites through this thread so I figured I would add a clip just to give a glimpse of what a modded DSL can sound like.(not that it's the best but it's better than no soundbite right?)
> 
> You're right Cody and the amp does sound great. Thanks for posting.
> B.P.



Thanks man! I'm really enjoying it and I hope others do as well.


----------



## Moony

PU239 said:


> Found out at NAMM that the DSL40C was the biggest selling amp last year worldwide.



From Marshall or from all the companies?


----------



## Bownse

Codeman said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> I haven't seen a lot of sound bites through this thread so I figured I would add a clip just to give a glimpse of what a modded DSL can sound like.(not that it's the best but it's better than no soundbite right?)
> Honestly, this sounds pretty good to me. See what you think.
> 
> As a side note, I have been writing this for a little while, but never settled on a solo so I just threw one together for the recording. Nevertheless, happy listening.
> 
> Amp Used:
> '14 Marshall DSL 40C
> -Tubes: TAD7025WA, Mullard RI, Svetlana, Svetlana, TADEL34B-STR
> -Speaker: G12H75
> 
> Settings Used:
> 
> Lead 2:
> Volume: .5-1 Gain:7 Treble:5 Middle:2 Bass:7 Presence:7 Resonance:7
> Reverb:5
> 
> Guitar Used:
> '15 PRS SE Custom 24 "Floyd" 30th Anniversary Edition
> 
> Recording Equipment:
> AKG Perception 120 Condenser Microphone off center and panned left
> Tascam DR40 2 feet away positioned high center from speaker panned right
> 
> [SC]https://soundcloud.com/cody-baggett/post-mod-sound-test[/SC]




+1
Like

Mine is there somewhere but far too neophyte for some.

I got a lot of the tones I was seeking but one was only "close". With the LP in for mods, I picked up a beater Epi SG G-310. All I did was plug it in and dial in the guitars tuners and volumes. Then BAM! There it was. It's the metal of the SG verses the blues/jazz of the LP that made it so easy to step that extra little bit.


----------



## Codeman

Bownse said:


> +1
> Like
> 
> Mine is there somewhere but far too neophyte for some.
> 
> I got a lot of the tones I was seeking but one was only "close". With the LP in for mods, I picked up a beater Epi SG G-310. All I did was plug it in and dial in the guitars tuners and volumes. Then BAM! There it was. It's the metal of the SG verses the blues/jazz of the LP that made it so easy to step that extra little bit.



Neophyte?


----------



## Moony

@ Codeman: 

You got THE nickname, now! 
Would say that Marshall needs to give you a CODE amp of your choice for free when using your name!


----------



## Codeman

Moony said:


> @ Codeman:
> 
> You got THE nickname, now!
> Would say that Marshall needs to give you a CODE amp of your choice for free when using your name!



crap.... I didn't expect a family nickname to come back to haunt me like that.

I would gladly take a CODE amp though. I've been thinking of the 50 or 100 watt head, but I really need to play it first. I just got off the modeling wagon with the Line6 Spider series.


----------



## Moony

I think, the Line 6 spider isn't the best example of how good a digital modeling amp can sound. The CODE could only be better.


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

Codeman said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> I haven't seen a lot of sound bites through this thread so I figured I would add a clip just to give a glimpse of what a modded DSL can sound like.(not that it's the best but it's better than no soundbite right?)
> Honestly, this sounds pretty good to me. See what you think.
> 
> As a side note, I have been writing this for a little while, but never settled on a solo so I just threw one together for the recording. Nevertheless, happy listening.
> 
> Amp Used:
> '14 Marshall DSL 40C
> -Tubes: TAD7025WA, Mullard RI, Svetlana, Svetlana, TADEL34B-STR
> -Speaker: G12H75
> 
> Settings Used:
> 
> Lead 2:
> Volume: .5-1 Gain:7 Treble:5 Middle:2 Bass:7 Presence:7 Resonance:7
> Reverb:5
> 
> Guitar Used:
> '15 PRS SE Custom 24 "Floyd" 30th Anniversary Edition
> 
> Recording Equipment:
> AKG Perception 120 Condenser Microphone off center and panned left
> Tascam DR40 2 feet away positioned high center from speaker panned right
> 
> [SC]https://soundcloud.com/cody-baggett/post-mod-sound-test[/SC]



Hey Codeman, Great playing through an awesome sounding amp.


----------



## PU239

Moony said:


> From Marshall or from all the companies?



By units sold ALL.


----------



## Moony

Ok, I'm wondering, how this could be determined then. 

I know, the DSL40C is a good selling amp, but I can tell you, that in Europe it's not the best selling guitar amp, since I weekly follow the sales charts of Thomann, which is Europeans biggest music-store. 

There are a few lower cost amps, especially solid state and modeling amps, which sell better. 
Also the 7 BJ and V AC15 are very strong competitors in the all-valve category. 

But I absolutely believe, that the DSL40C is under the Top10 in the all-valve category.


----------



## Len

Moony said:


> Ok, I'm wondering, how this could be determined then.
> 
> I know, the DSL40C is a good selling amp, but I can tell you, that in Europe it's not the best selling guitar amp, since I weekly follow the sales charts of Thomann, which is Europeans biggest music-store.
> 
> There are a few lower cost amps, especially solid state and modeling amps, which sell better.
> Also the 7 BJ and V AC15 are very strong competitors in the all-valve category.
> 
> But I absolutely believe, that the DSL40C is under the Top10 in the all-valve category.



More DSL40C customers in the US?


----------



## Moony

Len said:


> More DSL40C customers in the US?



Maybe. 
I don't know, how you could measure something like that. 

Even if you get some numbers from distributors, it wouldn't say something about how many amps were sold to the customers from all the shops which stock the amps.


----------



## Oldpunk

I believe nuke over moony re: sales figures.


----------



## BanditPanda

Oldpunk said:


> I believe nuke over moony re: sales figures.


 
Moony's got this hate on for the 40DSLC. It's weird.


----------



## Moony

BanditPanda said:


> Moony's got this hate on for the 40DSLC. It's weird.



Hate? How did you come up with that?

I like the DSL40C, it's a good amp. 

But I know, that at Europe's biggest musicstore it's not the number one selling guitar amp.


----------



## Micky

I kinda also would tend to agree the DSL40c is probably not the best-selling amp.
I would imagine a lower-priced amp would reign as #1.
Then again, manufacturers claims have always been taken with a grain of salt...


----------



## MarshallDog

I could see it being Marshalls number 1 selling amp, maybe that's what they mean.


----------



## Moony

Micky said:


> I kinda also would tend to agree the DSL40c is probably not the best-selling amp.
> I would imagine a lower-priced amp would reign as #1.



Exactly!
There are several lower priced solid state and modeling amps which sell far better here in Europe. 
And I don't think, that it's different worldwide. 



MarshallDog said:


> I could see it being Marshalls number 1 selling amp, maybe that's what they mean.



I've asked, wether it refers only to Marshall or to all companies and were told "by units sold ALL". 

Yes, maybe it's Marshall's best selling combo in 2015. Could be, as they also launched three other designs. 
But I'm pretty sure, it's not the best selling guitar amp worldwide. 

And that does not mean that I hate the DSL40C!


----------



## BanditPanda

Moony said:


> Hate? How did you come up with that?
> .



Well by your rant about the JVM vs. the DSL40.

It was clear you were miffed that the DSL40C was getting more love than the JVM.

I could be wrong


----------



## BanditPanda

PU239 said:


> Found out at NAMM that the DSL40C was the biggest selling amp last year worldwide.



Hey PU your facts / sources are under attack. Up to you to support them.


----------



## Moony

BanditPanda said:


> Well by your rant about the JVM vs. the DSL40.
> 
> It was clear you were miffed that the DSL40C was getting more love than the JVM.
> 
> I could be wrong



I've just asked, which amp the guys here would prefer if both cost the same. 
What's wrong with that? 
I think, that then, most guys would buy the JVM, that is correct. 

But that doesn't mean, that I don't like the DSL. I personally just like the JVM better - and that's something I stated much later in the thread - after getting several replies to it. 

I can understand, that the DSL40C gets more love than the JVM215C, because it's more affordable and therefore a better value for the money - especially in those countries, where the JVM costs more than double the price of the DSL40C. 

There's nothing wrong with the DSL40C.


----------



## Micky

Come on guys.
No need to argue here in this thread.

Discussions, OK then. Please just keep it civil and not argumentative.


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

I tried something new last night. I normally play with the amp tilted on a raised stand and I'm either sitting beside it, or standing directly in front of it. I decided last night to move around the room a little with a 20 foot cord and got a whole new feel for this amp. At around 8 feet away facing the amp the tonal character was quite different. It seemed to have more treble(not in a bad way) and clarity. It gave me an idea of what others hear when I'm playing. I guess I need to move around a little more when I'm playing. Nothing earth shattering to anyone here, I'm just observing.....


----------



## Oldpunk

Take it off that stand and place it on the floor next to a wall and it will sound even better.


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

Oldpunk said:


> Take it off that stand and place it on the floor next to a wall and it will sound even better.



That's how I used to have it before I got the stand. I haven't done it that way since I did the mods. I'll have to try it out.


----------



## ken361

more bass on the floor


----------



## Landawng

Ordered this off of Sweetwater and it came today. BEYOND stoked right now. First amp I have ever owned. Messed around on acoustic for about 3 years and finally picked up an electric 3-4 weeks ago (Epiphone ES-339 Pro). Messed around with it on Guitar Rig 5 but decided I needed an amp and I didn't really want to cheap out on it.

Gotta say, it's pretty sweet seeing a 180 page thread on this DSL40. I have a lot of reading to do haha.


----------



## Micky

Landawng said:


> Gotta say, it's pretty sweet seeing a 180 page thread on this DSL40. I have a lot of reading to do haha.



Required reading...

Many new members put a post in the Introduce Yourself section telling everyone a little bit about themselves, and the kind of gear they own, music they like, etc.


----------



## IRG

For those of you who've ordered tubes from Doug's tubes, how quickly did you get your order? I'm in the same state (NY) and ordered on the 20th, yet it still says processing. Seems to be taking a long time. I guess I'm spoiled with the customer service from Sweetwater, where I order a guitar, or this amp, in a different state (Indiana) and have it delivered for free within 48 hours. Large store versus M&P, I get that. But still, these are 6 small tubes...


----------



## ken361

In Michigan usually 3 days, are they in stock?


----------



## MarshallDog

IRG said:


> For those of you who've ordered tubes from Doug's tubes, how quickly did you get your order? I'm in the same state (NY) and ordered on the 20th, yet it still says processing. Seems to be taking a long time. I guess I'm spoiled with the customer service from Sweetwater, where I order a guitar, or this amp, in a different state (Indiana) and have it delivered for free within 48 hours. Large store versus M&P, I get that. But still, these are 6 small tubes...



I order from the Tube Store and the order ships the same day unless I order at 4:00 and I get them in 2-3 days. Im near Buffalo, NY. The Tube Store is the best with great customer service.


----------



## Micky

IRG said:


> For those of you who've ordered tubes from Doug's tubes, how quickly did you get your order? I'm in the same state (NY) and ordered on the 20th, yet it still says processing. Seems to be taking a long time. I guess I'm spoiled with the customer service from Sweetwater, where I order a guitar, or this amp, in a different state (Indiana) and have it delivered for free within 48 hours. Large store versus M&P, I get that. But still, these are 6 small tubes...



I think I remember 5 business days for me.
Send them an email, there may be a problem with the order.


----------



## Landawng

Micky said:


> Required reading...
> 
> Many new members put a post in the Introduce Yourself section telling everyone a little bit about themselves, and the kind of gear they own, music they like, etc.



Ah right on, thanks for the heads up on that!!


----------



## IRG

Micky said:


> I think I remember 5 business days for me.
> Send them an email, there may be a problem with the order.




I did just that. Looks like it's being delivered today. I think his website sticks on processing, but it should be updated to be shipped out. Also, since it was sent out on the 21st, which was very quick on his end, USPS is being very slow for 2 day delivery. Five days to move from Long Island to Rochester. It's a 4-5 hour drive. But I suppose this big storm last week is the culprit. Living in upstate NY, usually we're the ones with the big storm, but we got nothing. Long Island and NYC got quite a bit.

It reminds me of the photo I saw the other day from a bar in Buffalo, that said, "What do you call it when you get 2 feet of snow? Tuesday."


----------



## Oldpunk

IRG said:


> For those of you who've ordered tubes from Doug's tubes, how quickly did you get your order? I'm in the same state (NY) and ordered on the 20th, yet it still says processing. Seems to be taking a long time. I guess I'm spoiled with the customer service from Sweetwater, where I order a guitar, or this amp, in a different state (Indiana) and have it delivered for free within 48 hours. Large store versus M&P, I get that. But still, these are 6 small tubes...



Call him and ask he's a cool dude.

Edit: never mind ,just saw your last post.....patience bro, patience.


----------



## IRG

Oldpunk said:


> Call him and ask he's a cool dude.



It's already sorted out, see above. USPS is the culprit, and I guess some bad weather.


----------



## ken361

USPS used to be good and fast then all that BS was going on a few years they may stop sending mail and all. Seems like every time I would order it was like a week to 10 days! even close by states.


----------



## Landawng

This is probably a really dumb question, but is there a way to run guitar rig 5 via my PC through the effects loop? Or any other way? I don't have any pedals yet and wanted to hear some effects through this bad boy, but I don't want to break anything lol.


----------



## rlowe

IRG said:


> For those of you who've ordered tubes from Doug's tubes, how quickly did you get your order? I'm in the same state (NY) and ordered on the 20th, yet it still says processing. Seems to be taking a long time. I guess I'm spoiled with the customer service from Sweetwater, where I order a guitar, or this amp, in a different state (Indiana) and have it delivered for free within 48 hours. Large store versus M&P, I get that. But still, these are 6 small tubes...


Yes, I ordered some preamp tubes from Doug's mid summer I am thinking it was the Marshall preamp tube kit: Tungsol, 2 Ruby (high gain preference pick), Sovtek. These tubes sounded fuller, richer than the stock JJ's and even better with E34L's I ordered from Eurotubes nice and thick, punchy. If your looking for a vintage power tube sound the EL34's have that sound. I like both, but I sure dig that punchy E34L sound. E34L is EL34's Big Brother. By the way they did take longer than expected to be delivered.


----------



## Micky

Landawng said:


> This is probably a really dumb question, but is there a way to run guitar rig 5 via my PC through the effects loop? Or any other way? I don't have any pedals yet and wanted to hear some effects through this bad boy, but I don't want to break anything lol.



Only way to do it would be to mix the signal from your computer with your guitar and run it thru the amp. But then again, the DSL40c is not a full-range speaker so it will be difficult to match the sound exactly.

Why not listen to it thru the computer?
Why go thru the trouble of sending it to the amp?


----------



## Landawng

Micky said:


> Only way to do it would be to mix the signal from your computer with your guitar and run it thru the amp. But then again, the DSL40c is not a full-range speaker so it will be difficult to match the sound exactly.
> 
> Why not listen to it thru the computer?
> Why go thru the trouble of sending it to the amp?



Cool, yeah that's pretty much what I figured. I was thinking possibly I would be able to get Guitar Rig effects through the amp on top of the natural DSL40c tones. Basically trying to cheap out on buying a pedal for now lol. Not looking possible though.


----------



## ken361

Landawng said:


> This is probably a really dumb question, but is there a way to run guitar rig 5 via my PC through the effects loop? Or any other way? I don't have any pedals yet and wanted to hear some effects through this bad boy, but I don't want to break anything lol.



I use Ableton Live 8 the free version if its still out there for recording, it has a great and other affects. So you can basicly at bedroom levels and the delay in the mix


----------



## minerman

Landawng said:


> This is probably a really dumb question, but is there a way to run guitar rig 5 via my PC through the effects loop? Or any other way? I don't have any pedals yet and wanted to hear some effects through this bad boy, but I don't want to break anything lol.


I use vst effects through my amp all the time with a re-amp box. I plug my guitar into my interface, then my di signal goes to the re-amper into the amp. Obviously you'll have to play with the levels to make it sound natural, but it's do-able. Something I use a lot are GR5's wah pedals into my amp, you can use automation to turn 'em on/off, plus control every part of the wah's movement (or any other knob/slider whatever)...

But, doing this won't be like using your loop, this is running straight into the amp's input. For time-based fx, I just record my amp, & insert whatever fx I want on that track. Of course, you'll have to set the wet/dry amount, but again, it's possible....

Here's a short, shattty clip with a vst wah pedal ran through my DSL100H & 4x12, mic'd up with an SM57:

*DSL100/GR5*


----------



## ken361

sounds good up the level though


----------



## minerman

ken361 said:


> sounds good up the level though



Thanks Ken, like I mentioned, it's just a short, crappy clip....Actually still working on that song, so it's not mixed yet, & is far from being finished...


----------



## ken361

Catchy riff, T75 speakers?


----------



## minerman

ken361 said:


> Catchy riff, T75 speakers?


Thanks again....that's actually a G12-65 re-issue man, & I may have told you wrong on the mic, that may have been a Sennheiser e609, instead of a '57. I can't remember right off, but it was either/or.... 

I know this sounds crazy, but I've got 4 different speakers in my 4x12. Where I don't play live, I stuck the different speakers in there so I can have different tones really easy/quick, just by moving the mic. Plus, I can blend different mics on different speakers for even more possibilities...





Eventually, I'm gonna get another cab (or maybe a couple 2x12's), & match 'em up, as I've got a few more speakers I can use, I just don't have a cab for 'em... But for now, this actually works pretty good. 

It doesn't sound as weird in the room as you'd think either....


----------



## ken361

All good


----------



## Oldpunk

minerman said:


> thanks again....that's actually a g12-65 re-issue man, & i may have told you wrong on the mic, that may have been a sennheiser e609, instead of a '57. I can't remember right off, but it was either/or....:d
> 
> i know this sounds crazy, but i've got 4 different speakers in my 4x12. Where i don't play live, i stuck the different speakers in there so i can have different tones really easy/quick, just by moving the mic. Plus, i can blend different mics on different speakers for even more possibilities...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eventually, i'm gonna get another cab (or maybe a couple 2x12's), & match 'em up, as i've got a few more speakers i can use, i just don't have a cab for 'em... But for now, this actually works pretty good.
> 
> It doesn't sound as weird in the room as you'd think either....





^^^like^^^  great idea.


----------



## BanditPanda

Oldpunk said:


> last month I bought a TC mojomojo OD just to try out and see. It opened up my 40c big time with both a nice clean and crunch boost. In escenence adding a third channel to the amp. A transparent pedal is what you want on a Marshall, one that keeps the amps tone intact and just adds extra coloring.



Hey there OP. Had seen this OD pedal mentioned several times by a few posters and decided to get one. Should have it in a day or 2.
Where dO you place it on your board ( not sure of you use one)
Pleas tell me more about the rsults you have obtainer from it. I am looking forward to using it.
B.P.


----------



## donnyrocker

As I'm wading through this massive thread for this amazing little amp, I wonder if anyone else is using a treble boost? 

My DSL40C iteration has the c19 mod, G12H30 Anniversary (laying around) and (all I had laying around) Ei preamp tubes. I have my Strats modified for MV, MT, bridge+neck blend knob (Kinman style): on Lead 2 w both buttons pushed in, resonance dimed and EQ 4/6/10 I'm getting darker metal tones without the TB and nifty early 70s hard rock tones w TB engaged (guitar's tone control adding whatever level of detail I require). I have five other pedals on my board and I goose the guitar level with an EP Boost (no matter what amp or guitar I use).

Thanks!


----------



## Micky

Might not need the treble boost without the C19 mod...


----------



## donnyrocker

minerman said:


> Thanks again....that's actually a G12-65 re-issue man, & I may have told you wrong on the mic, that may have been a Sennheiser e609, instead of a '57. I can't remember right off, but it was either/or....
> 
> I know this sounds crazy, but I've got 4 different speakers in my 4x12. Where I don't play live, I stuck the different speakers in there so I can have different tones really easy/quick, just by moving the mic. Plus, I can blend different mics on different speakers for even more possibilities...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eventually, I'm gonna get another cab (or maybe a couple 2x12's), & match 'em up, as I've got a few more speakers I can use, I just don't have a cab for 'em... But for now, this actually works pretty good.
> 
> It doesn't sound as weird in the room as you'd think either....



I'm rehabbing a 1960A and I've considered this set-up (practically identical) for primarily recording purposes. While I'd be using different heads (or likewise tapping my DSL40C), are you finding that it's worth the effort? Thanks!


----------



## donnyrocker

Micky said:


> Might not need the treble boost without the C19 mod...



Perhaps not, but I always have a TB on my board for Old School applications anyway (not as much for treble boosting as a particular flavor of OD).

For one band, I rehearse with a stock DSL40C, which sounds better than mine did stock. In another band for whom I play bass, the two guitar players are currently running through these guys (both of them having played my stock one first), one is completely stock (though he considered the Sweetwater upgrade—we're close enough to drive there) and the other has biased JJ preamp tubes (and he's in the hunt for an alternate speaker). All this to say, I have some interesting opportunities to A/B (or even A/B/C/D!) several iterations.

Only two of us are cruising this thread, however...


----------



## minerman

donnyrocker said:


> I'm rehabbing a 1960A and I've considered this set-up (practically identical) for primarily recording purposes. While I'd be using different heads (or likewise tapping my DSL40C), are you finding that it's worth the effort? Thanks!


_For me_, yes I think it is worth it. While some of my speakers aren't a _great_ deal different (the '65 is _similar_ to the Greenback's tone, _to me_ it's got a slightly different high end for example), there is enough difference in 'em where it would be noticeable in a mix (IE: 2 guitars panned 80% L/R, Greenback on the left, V30 on the right), plus there are other factors (like your different amps for example), different guitars, mics, effects, etc., that really give me a pretty wide range of tones. The best part of all this is for me, it's all in one spot/cab, & is very convenient, _for me_...

It's kinda like the ampsim thing, where you have a bunch of different cab sims all in one program, but it's real speakers....

It depends on a lot of things like what kind of music you're recording, how picky you are about your recorded tones, etc., but short story, yes I think it's worth it _myself_. I'd love to have a quad of all these speakers, with a 4x12 for 'em all, but that's quite a bit of $$$, and would take up quite a bit of space, neither of which I have...YMMV


----------



## Rootraff

So, I was called stupid for buying a new Marshall DSL40CST (cream back installed already). I should have bought a Blackstar 60. Am I stupid? I played the HT 40, it's great. But, I like the Marshall a little more.


----------



## Micky

So who would call you stupid?

And there are lots of other great amps.

I would think you were pretty smart getting a DSL40...


----------



## ken361

Well im happy! fixed the amp with newer power tubes the hums gone! biased at 36. After a half hour playing my friend says some times you can hear the noise with the tube in my hand by tapping on it and I could hear plain as day! The red channel is really nice and warm now.


----------



## donnyrocker

minerman said:


> _For me_, yes I think it is worth it. While some of my speakers aren't a _great_ deal different (the '65 is _similar_ to the Greenback's tone, _to me_ it's got a slightly different high end for example), there is enough difference in 'em where it would be noticeable in a mix (IE: 2 guitars panned 80% L/R, Greenback on the left, V30 on the right), plus there are other factors (like your different amps for example), different guitars, mics, effects, etc., that really give me a pretty wide range of tones. The best part of all this is for me, it's all in one spot/cab, & is very convenient, _for me_...
> 
> It's kinda like the ampsim thing, where you have a bunch of different cab sims all in one program, but it's real speakers....
> 
> It depends on a lot of things like what kind of music you're recording, how picky you are about your recorded tones, etc., but short story, yes I think it's worth it _myself_. I'd love to have a quad of all these speakers, with a 4x12 for 'em all, but that's quite a bit of $$$, and would take up quite a bit of space, neither of which I have...YMMV



Thanks! I'm pondering perhaps an Alnico of some sort. The main alternate amp* is my Friedman SS-100 head in a studio with whom I work who has the quad V30s Marshall cabinet. Gibson SGs (stock), Teles (various iterations and p'ups), Strats (various iterations and p'ups).

*My other "main" amps are a Top Hat Club Royale 212 combo and a Rivera-era Fender Twin II. The DSL40C is my (guitar) gigging amp, but compares well in a 212-closed back cab I have to the SS-100 as if the Marshall were a V6 engine and the Friedman were a V8 engine


----------



## minerman

donnyrocker said:


> Thanks! I'm pondering perhaps an Alnico of some sort. The main alternate amp* is my Friedman SS-100 head in a studio with whom I work who has the quad V30s Marshall cabinet. Gibson SGs (stock), Teles (various iterations and p'ups), Strats (various iterations and p'ups).
> 
> *My other "main" amps are a Top Hat Club Royale 212 combo and a Rivera-era Fender Twin II. The DSL40C is my (guitar) gigging amp, but compares well in a 212-closed back cab I have to the SS-100 as if the Marshall were a V6 engine and the Friedman were a V8 engine


Using a cab with different speakers in it would definitely give you different tones, as long as you're close mic'ing 'em. Now, if you're using room mics, it migh sound a little weird, I don't know myself, as my room is pretty crappy, so I add the room thing via vst reverbs, but it'd be worth a try anyway. Plus, if you don't like it, you can always swap your speakers back to where you had 'em...Just sayin'....

And, if you do try this out, please do let me know about your results, as I could possibly use some of your techniques with my setup....


----------



## ken361

RFT sporting in the v1


----------



## BanditPanda

^^^^^^^ What does that mean ?
B.P.


----------



## BanditPanda

Rootraff said:


> So, I was called stupid for buying a new Marshall DSL40CST (cream back installed already). I should have bought a Blackstar 60. Am I stupid? I played the HT 40, it's great. But, I like the Marshall a little more.



That's just being childish and you should stand your ground. You prefer the Marshall sound. Period. Safe to say all of us here do.!! Marshall has been the go to rock amp for generations. Blackstar is still in the baby teeth stage.
Personally I have been made to feel stupid by Marshall for buying the DSL40CV with the Marshall Code coming out in a few months.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Different critters, right? RFT is an old stock tube, sounds great in V1 position. I have that in mine too!!


----------



## ken361

Why would you want a code SS amp, prb bright and thin like solid states lol


----------



## ken361

Jethro Rocker said:


> Different critters, right? RFT is an old stock tube, sounds great in V1 position. I have that in mine too!!



Guess they were stock in Marshalls back in the day


----------



## Oldpunk

ken361 said:


> Why would you want a code SS amp, prb bright and thin like solid states lol



So who's planning on buying a code and selling their 40c?

I've heard some rumblings of people who are thinking about it without ever hearing one.


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

Oldpunk said:


> So who's planning on buying a code and selling their 40c?
> 
> I've heard some rumblings of people who are thinking about it without ever hearing one.



I have no plans on selling my 40C. If anything, I'll try out a Code and buy it for practice/goofing around and have both. It would have to be pretty stellar for me to think about getting rid of my DSL.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

I MIGHT depending on actual trials. I have pointed this out on other threads, I wanted the 40C as a more compact Marshall and to use it the way I want, I HAVE to boost the front end with an OD. Nice sounding amp, not as versatile as I would like and still fairly bulky. 
Then I found a 6101 -more compact, far more versatile. Almost makes the 40C moot, depending.
Again, I will obviously wait until I hear one and try it, but there are rumblings, to be sure. If it works for me, I don't really care what anyone else might think, to be honest. They don't sound bright and thin to me but will have to see!!
Hauling that out and down the basement stairs to a practice and have all those amps at my fingertips is enticing for the money.


----------



## Woods

If I wanted a modeling amp, I would have bought a Line 6 ****stone years ago and been done with it. I like tubes for a reason.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Me too! But I have a place for this too, potentially anyways.


----------



## BanditPanda

Jethro Rocker said:


> Different critters, right? RFT is an old stock tube, sounds great in V1 position. I have that in mine too!!


 
What does RFT stand for or who is it made by.?
Me I have a Mullard CV4004 in V1
B.P.


----------



## Len

BanditPanda said:


> What does RFT stand for or who is it made by.?
> Me I have a Mullard CV4004 in V1
> B.P.



Quick Google search (it's your friend):

http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/12AX7-ECC83-Tube-Types/RFT-ECC83-12AX7


----------



## ken361

http://www.tubemonger.com/12AX7_ECC...6.htm?searching=Y&sort=9&cat=6&show=10&page=3


----------



## BanditPanda

ken361 said:


> Why would you want a code SS amp, prb bright and thin like solid states lol


 
Well may I answer a question with a question? Why does anyone want one? You've seen the clamour on the Code thread.
Personally I bought the DSL40CV on spec having researched it both in terms of written reviews and in terms of audio from YT.
It was only when I discovered this great forum did I find out about the problems / short comings of the amp. lmao. Very happy so for. Speaker swap and new tubes.
You can here my DSL40CV here: https://soundcloud.com/banditpanda-446193420/stones-open-g-medley
It is my first Marshall and in fact got a Les Paul to go along with it.
But ( a big butt lol) had I known that Marshall was planning to come out with a modeller at 1/3 the price, with presumably a close proximity ( if not spot on ) sound /tone to the Marshalls we know and love I may have waited on my purchase. That plus the fact that carrying the Code at probably half the weight of the 40C would be a heck of a lot easier.
But I ain't selling anything yet, besides the fact that a used 40C would not fetch half its purchase value, if the Code is a success.


----------



## BanditPanda

Len said:


> Quick Google search (it's your friend):
> 
> http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/12AX7-ECC83-Tube-Types/RFT-ECC83-12AX7




Thank you Len.
B.P.


----------



## stevezodiac

Hi I'm new to this forum. I've just bought a DSL15H which I like very much but the gain channel seems to be unusable above setting 2 due to the amount of white noise generated. Is this normal due to the very high gain or should I take it back to PMT manchester where I bought it new last week?


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Likely normal. Which setting is above 2, the gain or the volume?? If the volume is up at all, the gain should be usable in the 3 to 4 range for sure but will have some noise associated with it. The 40C has another gain channel that is less gainy as well as a crunch mode on the clean.


----------



## Micky

stevezodiac said:


> Hi I'm new to this forum. I've just bought a DSL15H which I like very much but the gain channel seems to be unusable above setting 2 due to the amount of white noise generated. Is this normal due to the very high gain or should I take it back to PMT manchester where I bought it new last week?



In all reality, the 40c and the 15h are two very different beasts.
Both have incredible amounts of gain, and on the Ultra II channel you can expect a bit of noise/hiss on gain settings over 3. 

You have to understand that increasing the gain beyond that and expecting it to be quiet is an unreasonable expectation.

There is of course, the possibility that a tube has excessive noise, and the only way to tell is to swap them out with known good ones to see if there is a problem.


----------



## batmanrb89

Fast question, I'm at work and need to stop and pick up fuses for my dsl40c. Going on the road and want to have backups of all of them just in case. Does anyone have a list of the fuses used on this bad boy? I left the list at home....


----------



## Micky

For 120V (you did not state where you are...)
FS1=T2AE250V
FS2=T500ma250V
FS3=T1AE250V
Mains=T2AE250V


----------



## batmanrb89

Micky said:


> For 120V (you did not state where you are...)
> FS1=T2AE250V
> FS2=T500ma250V
> FS3=T1AE250V
> Mains=T2AE250V



Thank you so much. I'm in the USA


----------



## Micky

batmanrb89 said:


> Thank you so much. I'm in the USA



Members should fill out their profile info.
Sometimes it helps a lot.


----------



## BanditPanda

Micky said:


> For 120V (you did not state where you are...)
> FS1=T2AE250V
> FS2=T500ma250V
> FS3=T1AE250V
> Mains=T2AE250V


 
You mean the amp has more than one fuse!?


----------



## IRG

Got my new tubes installed today, biased and all. Too soon to tell how different it sounds. My power tubes had gone microphonic. Seems early for them to go bad, bought it new in August, and maybe use it 3-4 hours a week, sometimes more, sometimes less (sigh). Not driven hard most of the time.

What I have noticed is not the brightness, from going green to red channel, but rather the lack of low end, going from green to red. And it's fairly noticeable. The green/clean channel sounds great. Red is thin sounding without any balls to it. But I gotta break them in, tweak it some more, and then decide. But I'm thinking it might be time to move on, to be honest.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Have you broken in the speaker? If you play at lower volumes, say, under 4 on the volume, you may want to try the C19 clip. I did it and the red channel sounds like the green channel. Lead 2 also has more low end than Lead 1 mode.


----------



## IRG

Jethro Rocker said:


> Have you broken in the speaker? If you play at lower volumes, say, under 4 on the volume, you may want to try the C19 clip. I did it and the red channel sounds like the green channel. Lead 2 also has more low end than Lead 1 mode.



Speaker is broken in, it's the Creamback version. As I said, too early to say with the new tubes. Will have more time hopefully this weekend. I'm just surprised at the lack of bass now - on the red channel, compared to my pedals. The green channel is very full and nice. I don't gig out, play with others at the moment. So good low end is important to me. In a band environment, the lack of lower end is probably a good thing to stand out in the mix a bit better. 

I'm not sure the c19 bright mod clip would help would it, if I perceive a lack of bass, versus it being too bright?


----------



## ken361

IRG said:


> Got my new tubes installed today, biased and all. Too soon to tell how different it sounds. My power tubes had gone microphonic. Seems early for them to go bad, bought it new in August, and maybe use it 3-4 hours a week, sometimes more, sometimes less (sigh). Not driven hard most of the time.
> 
> What I have noticed is not the brightness, from going green to red channel, but rather the lack of low end, going from green to red. And it's fairly noticeable. The green/clean channel sounds great. Red is thin sounding without any balls to it. But I gotta break them in, tweak it some more, and then decide. But I'm thinking it might be time to move on, to be honest.



measure plate voltage? whats your bias at?


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

IRG said:


> Speaker is broken in, it's the Creamback version. As I said, too early to say with the new tubes. Will have more time hopefully this weekend. I'm just surprised at the lack of bass now - on the red channel, compared to my pedals. The green channel is very full and nice. I don't gig out, play with others at the moment. So good low end is important to me. In a band environment, the lack of lower end is probably a good thing to stand out in the mix a bit better.
> 
> I'm not sure the c19 bright mod clip would help would it, if I perceive a lack of bass, versus it being too bright?



I had the same issues as you with the Red channel until I clipped the C19 cap. Let's put it this way. I used pedals on the Green channel for all of my distortion before the C19 mod and now I don't. I really liked the results with the cap out of the circuit and I love it with a 120 pF cap in place. Good luck with your amp.


----------



## rlowe

IRG said:


> Speaker is broken in, it's the Creamback version. As I said, too early to say with the new tubes. Will have more time hopefully this weekend. I'm just surprised at the lack of bass now - on the red channel, compared to my pedals. The green channel is very full and nice. I don't gig out, play with others at the moment. So good low end is important to me. In a band environment, the lack of lower end is probably a good thing to stand out in the mix a bit better.
> 
> I'm not sure the c19 bright mod clip would help would it, if I perceive a lack of bass, versus it being too bright?


I have the Celestion 70/80 in my amp and after break-in the amp has lost most of the ear piercing treble. Doug's preamp tube mix for Marshall and Eurotube JJ E34L's not EL34's. E34L's gave my amp more of a low end volume boost, more punch, more balls. The green channel is much louder, stronger. Also check your bias, I have heard of mixed ranges of the pair being 27,34 etc. After checking my power tubes, and I know I should have shortly after purchase, the bias was equal but registered at about 54.00 ea. and tubes lasting about 5 months.


----------



## IRG

ken361 said:


> measure plate voltage? whats your bias at?




I had a well known (in the vintage guitar/amp community) do it for me. He explained the process to me, but he runs the tubes hard for a bit to get the actual correct bias, not sure what the numbers are. But he does more than just run a volt meter to it. I trust him. He works on $250k guitars and some rare amps as well. Far, far more experience than I will ever be. Reasonable rates too. The downside was I was in the store for 5 minutes dropping off the amp, and I got a ticket that was the same price as his fee. Doh!


----------



## IRG

rlowe said:


> I have the Celestion 70/80 in my amp and after break-in the amp has lost most of the ear piercing treble. Doug's preamp tube mix for Marshall and Eurotube JJ E34L's not EL34's. E34L's gave my amp more of a low end volume boost, more punch, more balls. The green channel is much louder, stronger. Also check your bias, I have heard of mixed ranges of the pair being 27,34 etc. After checking my power tubes, and I know I should have shortly after purchase, the bias was equal but registered at about 54.00 ea. and tubes lasting about 5 months.




Well I'm definitely going to spend more time with it this weekend, hopefully. On the clean channel, I get a really nice, deep, impactful, ballsy low end. Highs are good too, but not piercing or shrill. When I switch to the red channel, the highs are a bit more present, but the bass is clearly not as impactful. Mids seem a little shallower too. What I was hoping I could do, is set the green channel as is, and then switch to the red channel for a similar tone, but with more bite and crunch, without having to change EQ settings or anything else. I might still get there, will just take more time.

I should also say, since I got this amp in August, I have since changed almost every guitar in my lineup. Really weird binge I went on these last 4-5 weeks. I got a new Gibson Tribute in December for my birthday, then recently I traded my PRS CU24 for a Gibson Traditional plus cash, and with some of that cash and an Epi LP for trade, I picked up a new Eastman T-386 335 type, very nice guitar. Then last weekend I traded a PRS S2 Standard for a mint '14 USA Fender Strat standard, which has me totally in love with single coils again. But all of these changes means I need to spend more time integrating the amp with these new guitars, and pedals. And I have a bunch more changes with my pedal lineup in the weeks ahead. Never ends.


----------



## IRG

Greatwhitenorth said:


> I had the same issues as you with the Red channel until I clipped the C19 cap. Let's put it this way. I used pedals on the Green channel for all of my distortion before the C19 mod and now I don't. I really liked the results with the cap out of the circuit and I love it with a 120 pF cap in place. Good luck with your amp.




I remember reading early on in this gargantuan thread about clipping the C19. I'll have to go back and see how it's done. Not sure I want to yet, and void the warranty. If it's really simple to do, I might try it. Hesitant I'll f*#k it up.


----------



## ken361

Raise the pole pieces up towards the middle on the bridge pup to the contour of the bridge, if you never done it your missing out! say the 3rd and 4th string the screws should be a bit higher in then the rest like 2 full turns. Watch how your red channels smooths out, especially on Gibsons. Most red channels on amps wont be as warm on the crunch because its not high gain. I believe 6505 was like that too if I remember right and most amps.


----------



## IRG

ken361 said:


> Raise the pole pieces up towards the middle on the bridge pup to the contour of the bridge, if you never done it your missing out! say the 3rd and 4th string the screws should be a bit higher in then the rest like 2 full turns. Watch how your red channels smooths out, especially on Gibsons. Most red channels on amps wont be as warm on the crunch because its not high gain. I believe 6505 was like that too if I remember right and most amps.



Certainly worth trying!


----------



## IRG

The one guitar I have, that I really do like with the red channel is my cheapest, a PRS SE Clint Lowery. Set up for Drop C (comes standard in Drop B which was too low for me). Pretty hot pickups too. But on the Lead2 channel, it rips, hard. I think the downtuning makes a big impact, in getting that deeper bass/midrange I like. I actually sometimes need to turn up the treble just a bit. But this is more for my metal needs, when I need it. Does the chugga chugga thing really well.


----------



## ken361

I didnt know much about it until a few years ago when I took a new SG in to have a guy look at it. Didnt like the 490/498T pups then he raise the poles up and it smoothed right out. Play loud and dial it in. I used the 70/80 till I had 40 hrs on it then bought a Warehouse speaker, way better a difference right away. Sometimes I think Celestions are bright anyways!


----------



## ken361

Amp placement is huge were its set at! and were you play at. It could sound thinner one place and thick at another.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

IRG said:


> I remember reading early on in this gargantuan thread about clipping the C19. I'll have to go back and see how it's done. Not sure I want to yet, and void the warranty. If it's really simple to do, I might try it. Hesitant I'll f*#k it up.


Yes it would void warranty. I clipped it, no soldering required. Try Lead 2 it has more balls than lead 1.


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

IRG said:


> I remember reading early on in this gargantuan thread about clipping the C19. I'll have to go back and see how it's done. Not sure I want to yet, and void the warranty. If it's really simple to do, I might try it. Hesitant I'll f*#k it up.



If you're comfortable taking the chassis out of the cabinet then I would say it's extremely easy to do. Just remember to unplug it from the wall first and let it sit for a couple of minutes to cool off the tubes. When you do get in there and start looking please note that the C19 cap is tiny. A good trick that I learned in this thread was to take the chassis and put it tube side down in the empty cabinet while working on the electronics. 

If you're hesitant to do that, take it to your amp tech along with your #1 guitar and have him do it. If you give him the heads up to have a few capacitors on hand he'll be able to solder in a new value while you wait. It literally takes more time to take all of the screws out and remove the chassis than it does to clip the old cap and solder the new one. You can try out the Red channel without the cap and with different values to find what you like best.

I have set my own bias and measured voltages in this amp, but I didn't even trust myself to tackle the micro surgery that it takes to solder in this tiny capacitor. If I didn't have a friend that could do the work for me I would have taken mine to a tech or left the capacitor out of the circuit entirely. 

The amp sounds way more "classic" to me with the mods. I have found a ton of great sounds now that this mod is complete. Like I said, Good luck man.


----------



## Micky

^This.

When the Likes went away, the function called PemaLink also left the building.
It would allow you to post a link directly to the post you were referring to, in this case a photo of C19. Here is another photo of what it looks like:






Here is a little wider shot:





Here is a shot of the cap unsoldered from the main board:
(easy to clip one leg as well...)


----------



## jlinde1973

IRG said:


> I remember reading early on in this gargantuan thread about clipping the C19. I'll have to go back and see how it's done. Not sure I want to yet, and void the warranty. If it's really simple to do, I might try it. Hesitant I'll f*#k it up.



Clipping out the c19 isn't going to give you more bass. It's just going to mud up the red channel. I tried it and hated it. I would put in a 100-200pf cap value in its place if you decide to do the mod. Yes the red channel doesn't have near the bass as the green channel. I've ran into the same problem. Maybe a higher value cathode bypass cap value to let more bass frequencies thru on the red channel. There's gotta be some simple fix.


----------



## Woods

Jesus, it's one cap, not engineering a rocket-ship. We don't need 18 pages of supporting documentation for it. Either do it or don't.


----------



## Len

jlinde1973 said:


> Clipping out the c19 isn't going to give you more bass. It's just going to mud up the red channel. I tried it and hated it. I would put in a 100-200pf cap value in its place if you decide to do the mod. Yes the red channel doesn't have near the bass as the green channel. I've ran into the same problem. Maybe a higher value cathode bypass cap value to let more bass frequencies thru on the red channel. There's gotta be some simple fix.



I clipped C19 and love the red channel. Like the other reply said, just try it to see if you like it.


----------



## batmanrb89

Micky said:


> Members should fill out their profile info.
> Sometimes it helps a lot.



Freshly updated for ya. Thanks again! I had to clean up my trail for a while on the web last year so that's why I didn't have any info. Cheers!


----------



## batmanrb89

So with in my time using this wonderful amp, I have gone from the stock tubes, to JJ's(loved), to Electro Harmonix(enjoyed), to Groove Tubes/Tung Sol's combined(not loving) and now I'm going back to all JJ's with (2) Matched EL34 power tubes, (3) ECC83S pre-amp tubes, and (1) Balanced ECC83S (phase inverter). I never actually swapped the speaker out because it broke in nicely, but I use it in combo most of the time with MX412A Celestion cabinet. I gotta say, I've thrown everything I could at this amp in terms of playability, pedal board effects and ruggedness. It's a great amp.


----------



## donnyrocker

minerman said:


> And, if you do try this out, please do let me know about your results, as I could possibly use some of your techniques with my setup....



You know it!


----------



## MarshallDog

Woods said:


> Jesus, it's one cap, not engineering a rocket-ship. We don't need 18 pages of supporting documentation for it. Either do it or don't.



Amen to that! Grow some nuts and just do it!


----------



## donnyrocker

MarshallDog said:


> Amen to that! Grow some nuts and just do it!



It takes longer to warm up the soldering iron...


----------



## SlyStrat

I might sell my white one to buy a Mini Jube. 
I want a smaller, lighter package.

PS: JJ preamp tubes are dull and crappy sounding.


----------



## Oldpunk

The mini jube isn't much lighter at 42 pounds.


----------



## ken361

I think I like the dsl more because the red channel has the balls


----------



## Jethro Rocker

A jube lead channel certainly has the balls as well, just sayin'!


----------



## ken361

Haven't really played as much,need to open it and scream


----------



## Bownse

Oldpunk said:


> The mini jube isn't much lighter at 42 pounds.



With my swapped Creamback (75w) the DSL is about 60#.

If you really want lighter, try a Pignose.


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

I got to take my newly modded DSL to a jam last night. To anyone who is worried about whether the amp will cut through without the original C19 cap, in a word, don't. I was extremely impressed with the Red channel "in the mix". Lots of balls which made me happy. Looks like I've got a couple pedals that'll be up for sale.


----------



## Igtar_Pro

Hi guys, I noted a white color in the first preamp valve V1 (se picture), so I changed by another similar. Then I put the amp in stand by mode, and while I was connecting the efects through the effect loop it gave me an electric shock. Then when connected the guitar another electric shock (the amp was turned off immediately). Any idea of what can be the problem?


----------



## MarshallDog

Greatwhitenorth said:


> I got to take my newly modded DSL to a jam last night. To anyone who is worried about whether the amp will cut through without the original C19 cap, in a word, don't. I was extremely impressed with the Red channel "in the mix". Lots of balls which made me happy. Looks like I've got a couple pedals that'll be up for sale.



The C19 mod does wonders to this amp, glade you like it!!!


----------



## MarshallDog

Igtar_Pro said:


> Hi guys, I noted a white color in the first preamp valve V1 (se picture), so I changed by another similar. Then I put the amp in stand by mode, and while I was connecting the efects through the effect loop it gave me an electric shock. Then when connected the guitar another electric shock (the amp was turned off immediately). Any idea of what can be the problem?



Is your amp properly grounded through the power line/cord? This does not make sense at all. You must have been touching the chassis when you got the shock?? Are you sure it wasn't just a static shock from your body going to ground through the amp??


----------



## jeffb

Greatwhitenorth said:


> I got to take my newly modded DSL to a jam last night. To anyone who is worried about whether the amp will cut through without the original C19 cap, in a word, don't. I was extremely impressed with the Red channel "in the mix". Lots of balls which made me happy. Looks like I've got a couple pedals that'll be up for sale.




Did you completely clip c19, or did you sub a different value?


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

jeffb said:


> Did you completely clip c19, or did you sub a different value?



It's subbed with a 120pF cap.


----------



## Woods

Igtar_Pro said:


> Hi guys, I noted a white color in the first preamp valve V1 (se picture), so I changed by another similar.




I had one that turned that color when the top nipple broke off and the vacuum was lost..


----------



## G the wildman

Hi guys, 

I have been using 100 wat fender Mustang amp and for a beginner it offers everything. I now have. DSL40c and of course it is superior and gives some qualitative tones. Together resonance and reverb make a difference but it is all subtle. It is training my ear but I am disappointed that the reverb is so subtle.

Any ideas?

G


----------



## Micky

G the wildman said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I have been using 100 wat fender Mustang amp and for a beginner it offers everything. I now have. DSL40c and of course it is superior and gives some qualitative tones. Together resonance and reverb make a difference but it is all subtle. It is training my ear but I am disappointed that the reverb is so subtle.
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> G



For me, a new set of finals made all the difference in the world.
Much earlier in this thread I described that one of the benefits of the TAD EL34 STB tubes I installed was a much more pronounced reverb. I believe it has to do with a better full-range frequency response, superior tubes are bound to sound better...


----------



## G the wildman

Hi Micky,

By finals I assume that you mean the two EL34s. Silly question but how does one know the difference between good and not so good tubes? And would Marshall use lower quality.?

G


----------



## Micky

Yes, the EL34's.
I come from a radio background, and they are referred to as finals. V4 in the DSL40c is also a power tube, so there is a difference...

Marshall uses whatever they can get in these lower-priced amps, and consistency is something that may not be important to them. You will find higher quality tubes almost everywhere, the ones Marshall uses work fine, but they are not anything special.

Do some homework, read all you can about tubes, and become better informed. As a relatively new member with a DSL40c, you are now hereby required to read this complete thread. Feel free to ask questions though, there are MANY members here willing to help as well as answer your questions with expert answers. That is one of the great things about this forum, especially members in this thread, they are very well informed and eager to help anyone as well as relate their experiences.


----------



## G the wildman

Thank you. I have been dipping in but will work through from Chapter 1

G


----------



## G the wildman

*Re: C19 cap mod before and after video*



Ensoniq said:


> Today I took the plunge and did the C19 cap mod as described earlier in this thread. It is definitely a huge improvement. The switch from green crunch to red 1 is very smooth now and the harsh high end on red channel 1 is gone.
> 
> I recorded before and after audio samples and made the video below for those of you who may be considering the mod.
> 
> Marshall DSL40c C19 cap mod comparison - YouTube



Well I suppose it is all down to personal tast. But I prefer the as delivered option. But thanks really helpful.


----------



## ken361

I run my gain on 7 on both green and red 1, its pretty even


----------



## Bownse

Micky said:


> For me, a new set of finals made all the difference in the world.
> Much earlier in this thread I described that one of the benefits of the TAD EL34 STB tubes I installed was a much more pronounced reverb. I believe it has to do with a better full-range frequency response, superior tubes are bound to sound better...



That must be why I'm scratching my head when I hear these comments. Mine has enough reverb (without getting silly) but I also swapped in TAD EL34 STB tubes as one of the first things I did after getting it.


----------



## ken361

My reverb was decent but I dont use it any more because im using a echo pedal in the loop. The reverb adds some brightness to the gain channels anyways.


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

I guess it's time to look at some TAD EL34's then because a lot of the time I can't even tell if my reverb is on. It's definitely not a deal killer for me though.


----------



## jeffb

IMO the reverb is not very good to begin with, but power tubes help. 

My amp came with the TAD STR tubes, I personally would not be likely to try them again. I retubed mine with the Mullard RI El34s and they have made everything with the amp sound a bit more 3 dimensional and sweeter, including the reverb.


----------



## Woods

Funny you mention this, the TAD are known to make the reverb sound better as it did with mine; good to know the next step is the Mullard RI.


----------



## jeffb

Greatwhitenorth said:


> It's subbed with a 120pF cap.



Sorry for not responding soner. Forgot I asked. 

Thanks for the FYI


----------



## jeffb

Woods said:


> Funny you mention this, the TAD are known to make the reverb sound better as it did with mine; good to know the next step is the Mullard RI.



Certainly an improvement, I actually use the reverb on occasion now.


----------



## BanditPanda

*Re: C19 cap mod before and after video*



G the wildman said:


> Well I suppose it is all down to personal tast. But I prefer the as delivered option. But thanks really helpful.


 
Thanks for doing that Wildman. Gives me an excellent idea of what's happening before and after.
B.P.


----------



## G the wildman

Micky said:


> You got it, exactly. Roll the guitar volume back for super-clean. Depending on the venue, you may need to use the full 40 watts for this, as the clean/crunch has a tendency to not be as loud as the Ultra channel.
> 
> And yes, modifying the amp in any way will void the warranty. Seems a bit silly to wait 5 years to mod an amp, doesn't it?



A guy gave me a demo last week using the guitar volume control for distortion or clean. What I did not ask was how the volume did not reduce when he rolled back. 

How does one do that?


----------



## Woods

^Try it and see. How does a sure-grip rear end work in a Plymouth? It just does!


----------



## LckydevL

Hey guys, I have been rolling tubes, doing the bias thing and having pretty good success thanks to the info here. I have had two preamp tubes from the same manufacturer SCREAM like a coyote at me in the V1 spot. Is this a bad batch of tubes I have happened upon or are they just too weak for the V1 spot? Don't really want to mention brand names because any company can let out a bad tube or two. And the pre-amp tubes were the same (value?) as the the ones taken out. 12AX7


----------



## Jethro Rocker

They are microphonic, very likely. Get 2 more and replace them. We are OK talking brand names here!


----------



## batmanrb89

Jethro Rocker said:


> They are microphonic, very likely. Get 2 more and replace them. We are OK talking brand names here!



Agreed. Micro-phonic. Make sure everything is seeded correctly also but they likely are just a bad batch.


----------



## LckydevL

Thanks guys, did not know if I should try them in different spots or just poop can them. They were plain Mullards 12AX7. I also should have bought them from one of the tube websites mentioned here, I think.


----------



## batmanrb89

LckydevL said:


> Thanks guys, did not know if I should try them in different spots or just poop can them. They were plain Mullards 12AX7. I also should have bought them from one of the tube websites mentioned here, I think.



For what it's worth, Injust ordered a set up of tubes off Amazon for $88.00 of JJ power tubes (matched) and preamps (1 balanced for phase inverter) I attached photo. Price seemed better than some of the other sites but they are good also.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Although true, the stock pre tubes are JJs in the DSL40C. Or at least, they were.


----------



## IncreaseX

Hi. I've owned my DSL for about 2 years now and to my ears it has just never sounded right. This is the first valve/tube amp I've owned so I've always wondered if it is just me. 

To me it seems that the volume on the clean channel with no crunch is MUCH lower than it should be (even with the volume knob at 7 - 8). Also I get very little difference in tone when changing the EQ presence and resonance settings. Does this sound symptomatic to anyone?

Help! I really want to love this amp!


----------



## G the wildman

Yup. Exactly the same as mine. I have talked to Marshall tech desk and they say it is all very subtle. To get any difference I use reverb and resonance together.

I am disappointed but also like the amp.

Guys in here say new high quality tubes can make a difference.

G


----------



## G the wildman

Hi Guys,

I am Slowly working through this thread and it is great. Thanks!

I was thinking about ordering an amp stand for my DSL40C. But I am imagining vibration and the like. Does anyone have any experience before a waste £60.

Cheers

G


----------



## IncreaseX

G the wildman said:


> Yup. Exactly the same as mine. I have talked to Marshall tech desk and they say it is all very subtle. To get any difference I use reverb and resonance together.
> 
> I am disappointed but also like the amp.
> 
> Guys in here say new high quality tubes can make a difference.
> 
> G



Hehe well theres a difference between subtle and broken. I can hear my strings over the amp when its turned up to 5. I was wondering if this is something that can actually be fixed before I start buying tubes and speakers....


----------



## Micky

Jethro Rocker said:


> Although true, the stock pre tubes are JJs in the DSL40C. Or at least, they were.



The stock preamp tubes are custom-made for Marshall overseas, sometimes referred to as chrome plates. Similar to JJ's in tone, overly bright and lacking lows.


----------



## Micky

IncreaseX said:


> Hehe well theres a difference between subtle and broken. I can hear my strings over the amp when its turned up to 5. I was wondering if this is something that can actually be fixed before I start buying tubes and speakers....



Have you tried different preamp tubes?
The clean channel is lower volume because it is lower gain.
No getting around it.

New/better/different preamp tubes can make a world of difference.
Then you can keep your OEM tubes as spares.


----------



## Micky

G the wildman said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I am Slowly working through this thread and it is great. Thanks!
> 
> I was thinking about ordering an amp stand for my DSL40C. But I am imagining vibration and the like. Does anyone have any experience before a waste £60.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> G



I have had/used 2 different stands with mine, what is your concern?
I also leave mine at home on top of a PA cab for practice.
Getting it up off the ground helps disperse the sound a lot.


----------



## jeffb

Micky said:


> The stock preamp tubes are custom-made for Marshall overseas, sometimes referred to as chrome plates. Similar to JJ's in tone, overly bright and lacking lows.



Yeah, they are bad. I was wondering what these neweer marshall branded tubes were as I had never seen the "chrome plates" before.


----------



## Micky

jeffb said:


> Yeah, they are bad. I was wondering what these neweer marshall branded tubes were as I had never seen the "chrome plates" before.



I have never been a fan of ANY Marshall branded tubes.
Some people have preamp tubes with 2 red dots, which are supposed to be 'low-microphonic' that are better in the V1 position.

Many people still don't realize that the 'feel' as well as the tone of an amp can be drastically changed with swapping the preamp tubes for different brands.

For example, if you want a lot of gain, early breakup and more volume, try a Ruby AC5 HG+ 12AX7 in the V1 position. It is a hi-gain tube that many here love.

Preamp tubes can make all the difference in the world.


----------



## Bownse

G the wildman said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I am Slowly working through this thread and it is great. Thanks!
> 
> I was thinking about ordering an amp stand for my DSL40C. But I am imagining vibration and the like. Does anyone have any experience before a waste £60.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> G



No problems with the one I'm using.

[ame]http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0018TG8HQ?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00[/ame]

$20 ain't shabby.


----------



## Micky

Bownse said:


> No problems with the one I'm using.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0018TG8HQ?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00
> 
> $20 ain't shabby.



I have one of those, and have had amps much heavier than the DSL40c on it without difficulties. This little one is my new favorite, I also use it with my DSL5c:


----------



## IncreaseX

Micky said:


> Have you tried different preamp tubes?
> The clean channel is lower volume because it is lower gain.
> No getting around it.
> 
> New/better/different preamp tubes can make a world of difference.
> Then you can keep your OEM tubes as spares.




Thanks that's kind of what I was hoping to hear - that my amp isn't broken it just needs some work. I haven't tried new tubes or anything yet but I will now. I knew a new speaker is needed for sure and I have been browsing some Eminence stuff.

I guess it's time to do some reading and learn about tubes... 

Lol I'll probably be in touch!


----------



## jeffb

Micky said:


> I have never been a fan of ANY Marshall branded tubes.
> Some people have preamp tubes with 2 red dots, which are supposed to be 'low-microphonic' that are better in the V1 position.
> 
> Many people still don't realize that the 'feel' as well as the tone of an amp can be drastically changed with swapping the preamp tubes for different brands.
> 
> For example, if you want a lot of gain, early breakup and more volume, try a Ruby AC5 HG+ 12AX7 in the V1 position. It is a hi-gain tube that many here love.
> 
> Preamp tubes can make all the difference in the world.



Ive spent way too much money on tubes over the years..but you are right...For me its always speakers and tubes, speakers and tubes that make more difference than say pickups, or even guitars sometimes.

I rolled tubes in my 40 almost immediately. I am also not a fan of what Marshall uses typically. Unfortunately my rare secret V1 tube finally gave up the ghost recently, but the 40 has responded well to the modern tubes I have bought for it, thankfully.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Micky said:


> The stock preamp tubes are custom-made for Marshall overseas, sometimes referred to as chrome plates. Similar to JJ's in tone, overly bright and lacking lows.



Good to know. They look identical to my JJs except for the chrome plate and other threads mentioned this in the past so I thought....



G the wildman said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I am Slowly working through this thread and it is great. Thanks!
> 
> I was thinking about ordering an amp stand for my DSL40C. But I am imagining vibration and the like. Does anyone have any experience before a waste £60.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> G



I use a Standback stand, so amp is still touching floor, better low end.


----------



## Bownse

re: Low end

Yup. I have mine set across a corner where the corners of the amp are only inches away from the 2 walls. That reflects the bass up and out of the corner so I'm good on that.

Placement matters.


----------



## Knopfler

IncreaseX said:


> Hi. I've owned my DSL for about 2 years now and to my ears it has just never sounded right. This is the first valve/tube amp I've owned so I've always wondered if it is just me.
> 
> To me it seems that the volume on the clean channel with no crunch is MUCH lower than it should be (even with the volume knob at 7 - 8). Also I get very little difference in tone when changing the EQ presence and resonance settings. Does this sound symptomatic to anyone?
> 
> Help! I really want to love this amp!



I agree with you.
I've owned my Dsl for about 2 years , too.

All stock


----------



## BanditPanda

IncreaseX said:


> Hi. I've owned my DSL for about 2 years now and to my ears it has just never sounded right. This is the first valve/tube amp I've owned so I've always wondered if it is just me.
> To me it seems that the volume on the clean channel with no crunch is MUCH lower than it should be (even with the volume knob at 7 - 8). Also I get very little difference in tone when changing the EQ presence and resonance settings. Does this sound symptomatic to anyone?
> Help! I really want to love this amp!



First of all and keep in mind I am a novice to this amp & forum that the Gain knob is your Master Volume. Without that being turned up you can put your volume knob on 5 or 7 or 8 and there will not be any volume worth speaking of. Turn you Gain up somewhat and then begin with you volume.
Presence is essentially Treble and with this amp you really don't want anymore of that. Personally I leave Resonance and Presence on noon and leave them there. Also that Tone Shift button is amazing .
They say a " good " amp is one that you don't have to tweak a heck of lot to get the sound you're looking for, I don't know about that but with this amp there is a lot of tweaking involved to find the tone that you are looking for. Also when you say it doesn't sound " right " I take that to mean that its sound doesn't sound like the sound you have in your head that you want to achieve. So what style of music are you playing and whose tone are you most trying to emulate, if anybody's?
B.P.


----------



## Woods

BanditPanda said:


> They say a " good " amp is one that you don't have to tweak a heck of lot to get the sound you're looking for, I don't know about that but with this amp there is a lot of tweaking involved to find the tone that you are looking for. Also when you say it doesn't sound " right " I take that to mean that its sound doesn't sound like the sound you have in your head that you want to achieve. So what style of music are you playing and whose tone are you most trying to emulate, if anybody's?
> B.P.



Depends on how picky you are. Some folks need or like modifications to get where they want to go. No shame in that. I'm proud of my mods and where they have gotten me, but I like to improve upon.


It's the same with cars, your either in the 'these are basic appliances to get from point a-b' or 'I'm going to take this and see where it goes' crowd. Do you daily drive a Prius, or a Charger?


----------



## G the wildman

Just wondered if the amp would rattle on a stand as it is a powerful amp.


----------



## Micky

G the wildman said:


> Just wondered if the amp would rattle on a stand as it is a powerful amp.



It rattles stuff off the shelf, off the window sill, trash even comes up outta the trash can. Rattles the dirt right off my pant legs when I stand in front of it.

Hasn't rattled off the stand yet though.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

^^


----------



## Landawng

Bownse said:


> re: Low end
> 
> Yup. I have mine set across a corner where the corners of the amp are only inches away from the 2 walls. That reflects the bass up and out of the corner so I'm good on that.
> 
> Placement matters.



This is actually really good to know! I'll be adjusting my amp placement tonight similar to how yours is set up. It's already about 4 feet off the ground sitting on a work bench in my basement.

Having the DSL40c for a bit over two weeks now and I'm still in love with this thing. Recently picked up a Flashback delay and a Ditto x2 Looper pedal. I think I'm set for a while now.


----------



## IncreaseX

BanditPanda said:


> Also when you say it doesn't sound " right " I take that to mean that its sound doesn't sound like the sound you have in your head that you want to achieve. So what style of music are you playing and whose tone are you most trying to emulate, if anybody's?
> B.P.



By "doesn't sound right" I mean it just sounds wierd. I don't think anyone would want this tone. The Marshall roar and power is there in the lead channel, but the amp has a muffled, extremely harsh and bright out-of-phase tone. It's just unpleasant. I would like an Angus Young tone. It doesn't have to be exact just something that's hot and slick with a little grit.

Right now the amp is the audio equivalent of staring at the sun. It is just waaayy too intense so I'm looking at changing the speaker as well as the tubes. And now that I understand about gain and the clean channel that's better too - just need to get to work now I guess.

A speaker will be no problem for me to swap, but other than looking in the back and saying "yep - those are tubes" I have no idea what I'm doing so it's going to take some reading. I read about the c19 mod earlier in this thread and I know I can do that. I have a lot of soldering experience.


----------



## Woods

^Speaking of acka/daka; DSL's like Greenback type speakers; I recommend WGS.


----------



## Bownse

Landawng said:


> This is actually really good to know! I'll be adjusting my amp placement tonight similar to how yours is set up. It's already about 4 feet off the ground sitting on a work bench in my basement.
> 
> Having the DSL40c for a bit over two weeks now and I'm still in love with this thing. Recently picked up a Flashback delay and a Ditto x2 Looper pedal. I think I'm set for a while now.



Remember that cutting a corner is a space saver for me. Even though the corners are about 6" off each wall, the back is about a cubit. I don't have a tape measure nearby but it's from the tip of my fingers to my elbow away from the 90 degree corner. 

A flat wall might like 2' or so distance to get the reflected loss of the speaker back around to you. With the corner it concentrates it and sends it back out (probably biased to the ground because of the angle it sits on the stand mentioned earlier). 


Re: Woods' comment on speakers

As noted in my sig, I have a G12H-75 Creamback which gives it a little more load overhead than the 65 watters and, based on my understanding a more bassy tone. I had it get a little flubby on me a couple of times but it was new and I was really pushing the low end those times. I've not heard any flub in quite a while.


----------



## IncreaseX

Woods said:


> ^Speaking of acka/daka; DSL's like Greenback type speakers; I recommend WGS.



Hey thanks a ton for that. I hadn't heard of WGS and I found a couple of demo and shootout videos pretty quickly. I think the WGS Reaper is exactly what I'm looking for.


----------



## Woods

No problem, I'm on the ET-65; what's cool, is they are inexpensive enough to experiment with!


----------



## Landawng

Bownse said:


> Remember that cutting a corner is a space saver for me. Even though the corners are about 6" off each wall, the back is about a cubit. I don't have a tape measure nearby but it's from the tip of my fingers to my elbow away from the 90 degree corner.
> 
> A flat wall might like 2' or so distance to get the reflected loss of the speaker back around to you. With the corner it concentrates it and sends it back out (probably biased to the ground because of the angle it sits on the stand mentioned earlier).



Yeah actually last night I moved my amp to where it's in the corner but now it's a little bit further away from my drummers beastly drumset he brought over last night haha. I felt like I couldn't really compete when we went loud. I might need to move my amp a little bit closer, but man I'm so new at all this stuff, it's all trial and error right now. 

When you guys play heavier stuff/distortion through this amp with a drummer, what amp levels do you like to use? I definitely could have gone louder but I don't want to blow up the amp lol! The cleans sounded perfectly fine, but when we got loud it just created this wall of sound that wasn't really pleasant. I think part of the problem just might be me going through this old GX1 Digitech effects pedal for different distortion effects

This is the way I have my jam room set up in my basement currently:


----------



## MarshallDog

Landawng said:


> Yeah actually last night I moved my amp to where it's in the corner but now it's a little bit further away from my drummers beastly drumset he brought over last night haha. I felt like I couldn't really compete when we went loud. I might need to move my amp a little bit closer, but man I'm so new at all this stuff, it's all trial and error right now.
> 
> When you guys play heavier stuff/distortion through this amp with a drummer, what amp levels do you like to use? I definitely could have gone louder but I don't want to blow up the amp lol! The cleans sounded perfectly fine, but when we got loud it just created this wall of sound that wasn't really pleasant. I think part of the problem just might be me going through this old GX1 Digitech effects pedal for different distortion effects
> 
> This is the way I have my jam room set up in my basement currently:



I like your jam/practice area, looks cool. Is that a painting on the wall or a sheet, either way I like it. Mine is set up similar to yours...


----------



## Landawng

MarshallDog said:


> I like your jam/practice area, looks cool. Is that a painting on the wall or a sheet, either way I like it. Mine is set up similar to yours...



Right on dude, thanks a ton! It's actually a cement wall, and me and my son decided to draw all over the walls with chalk lol. The picture is Ahoska from Star Wars rebels I think. I spent all day last Friday cleaning out the basement, like it was some straight hoarders crap going on before I tried fixing it up a bit.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Amp location looks good. Should be no risk of blowing it up, it should be plenty loud to kill that drum kit where it is.


----------



## Woods

You just need a bass. Jam's way better with drums..


----------



## Bownse

Set it to full power (Pentode on the back toggle) instead of half. 

How do you bring the drum volume down to that of the rest of the band? You don't want the drummer holding back when not needed, but how to keep from overpowering everyone else is the age-old question.

Plexi half walls are a common way. For on-the-cheap, you could stand up some 8' plywood and let him play without seeing anyone else. To make him feel even more welcome you could make a show of pretending to nail it all together once he's sitting.


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

IncreaseX said:


> By "doesn't sound right" I mean it just sounds wierd. I don't think anyone would want this tone. The Marshall roar and power is there in the lead channel, but the amp has a muffled, extremely harsh and bright out-of-phase tone. It's just unpleasant. I would like an Angus Young tone. It doesn't have to be exact just something that's hot and slick with a little grit.
> 
> Right now the amp is the audio equivalent of staring at the sun. It is just waaayy too intense so I'm looking at changing the speaker as well as the tubes. And now that I understand about gain and the clean channel that's better too - just need to get to work now I guess.
> 
> A speaker will be no problem for me to swap, but other than looking in the back and saying "yep - those are tubes" I have no idea what I'm doing so it's going to take some reading. I read about the c19 mod earlier in this thread and I know I can do that. I have a lot of soldering experience.



I suggest making changes one at a time, and giving it some playing time to see what you really think. Like Micky says, start with preamp tubes, then speaker, and then if you don't find what you're after try desoldering one leg of your C19 cap. If you don't like it, put it back. If it's too flubby, fuzzy, wooly, put in some different value caps until you get it "just right". If this sounds like too much work I would put it up for sale and move on. 

For me, I liked the Green channel and was happy getting my dirt from pedals. I used a Rat 2 and a Big Muff with a Bad Monkey and a Soul Food. I really liked this but it was too much "tap dancing" to get what I wanted. I eventually clipped the C19 cap and shortly thereafter replaced it with a smaller value. I'm now playing instead of tapping my toe. As always YMMV. 

On another note, you mentioned the low volume on Green Clean with the gain turned way down. Have you tried turning up the gain and using your guitar's volume knob? This works incredibly well for me.


----------



## batmanrb89

Greatwhitenorth said:


> I suggest making changes one at a time, and giving it some playing time to see what you really think. Like Micky says, start with preamp tubes, then speaker, and then if you don't find what you're after try desoldering one leg of your C19 cap. If you don't like it, put it back. If it's too flubby, fuzzy, wooly, put in some different value caps until you get it "just right". If this sounds like too much work I would put it up for sale and move on.
> 
> For me, I liked the Green channel and was happy getting my dirt from pedals. I used a Rat 2 and a Big Muff with a Bad Monkey and a Soul Food. I really liked this but it was too much "tap dancing" to get what I wanted. I eventually clipped the C19 cap and shortly thereafter replaced it with a smaller value. I'm now playing instead of tapping my toe. As always YMMV.
> 
> On another note, you mentioned the low volume on Green Clean with the gain turned way down. Have you tried turning up the gain and using your guitar's volume knob? This works incredibly well for me.





When the amp is new, the speaker needs MAJOR breaking in. But, before changing anything or swapping, always check that all the tubes are securely fit into the sockets and also check the bias. I had two different ones of these and one came out of the box biased at 24mv left and 45mv right. Sounded like ****. Rebiased it and BAM, sounded totally different.


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

batmanrb89 said:


> When the amp is new, the speaker needs MAJOR breaking in. But, before changing anything or swapping, always check that all the tubes are securely fit into the sockets and also check the bias. I had two different ones of these and one came out of the box biased at 24mv left and 45mv right. Sounded like ****. Rebiased it and BAM, sounded totally different.



YES! Thanks for reminding me. Bias the amp properly first. Key point!


----------



## Bownse

^This

I sure do miss the LIKE button.


----------



## G the wildman

Out of the box.

Guys I have now read, with a bit of skimming' the whole thread and it seams to me that the DSL40c is what it is, and mods might be changes for change sake.

But boy the treble on the amp and the flabby overdrive are problems. So is there not a good quality pedal that can tame this but one that will not override the controls on the front of the amp.

Many people seem to be looking for warmer tones.

Having said this. The guy on the Marshall demo video and the guy on the Sweetwater video(creamback) get nice sounds.

G


----------



## batmanrb89

G the wildman said:


> Out of the box.
> 
> Guys I have now read, with a bit of skimming' the whole thread and it seams to me that the DSL40c is what it is, and mods might be changes for change sake.
> 
> But boy the treble on the amp and the flabby overdrive are problems. So is there not a good quality pedal that can tame this but one that will not override the controls on the front of the amp.
> 
> Many people seem to be looking for warmer tones.
> 
> Having said this. The guy on the Marshall demo video and the guy on the Sweetwater video(creamback) get nice sounds.
> 
> G



With any tube amp, but especially the DSL40C, because we're discussing it, you have to check that the tubes are seated right out of the box. Then bias it. The treble is a bit harsh on the amp, but with proper speaker break-in, it's works it's self out. I use it by itself and also with a 4x12 combo. It is deeper with the 4x12 for obvious reasons but it also depends on your guitars and fingers. 

To touch on your pedal questions, I use a tube screamer in front of it very frequently, and a blues driver. I just added an echoplex to the chain, and it totally reignited the amp. I love the amp, but I switch between it and a twin reverb a lot, so it's two different sounds. 

I found that dialing the treble down, turning the mids up, and turning the bass up helps. The presence and resonance duals help too. 

Honestly, I haven't had any problems with putting any of my pedals in front of this amp or in the fx loop.


----------



## G the wildman

Thank you Batman,

Those adjustments to middle, base and Res do make a nice warm difference. Guess I am trying to run before the amp has settled down.

But each day I like it more. Have not touched my Mustang for over a week.

Biasing the tubes is another story. This is my first Tube and and whilst I am a practical chap I might leave that for another month.

Wildman


----------



## batmanrb89

G the wildman said:


> Thank you Batman,
> 
> Those adjustments to middle, base and Res do make a nice warm difference. Guess I am trying to run before the amp has settled down.
> 
> But each day I like it more. Have not touched my Mustang for over a week.
> 
> Biasing the tubes is another story. This is my first Tube and and whilst I am a practical chap I might leave that for another month.
> 
> Wildman



This might be the most straight forward video there is to help with biasing this amp. http://youtu.be/Jj3hSEjySxg

Keep in mind you don't need the claw probes, you can get one with the regular pointy probes. Also, if measuring the plate voltage worries you, you're not alone. With the dsl40c I just bias it anywhere between 35mv - 42 MV and have never had a problem. Obviously, the higher you go, the more you risk burning the tubes out faster, but what the hell. Live a little, right???


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Once broken in, it should be better. I personally did the C19 clip to make both channels tonally closer. I also pish yhe front end with a Bad Monkey OD. Sounds great!!


----------



## G the wildman

Guys will an 'ISO-Tech IDM 67 Digital Meter 10A. 600v' be the right tool to check both the plate voltage and bias the tubes on my DSL40c?

Wildman


----------



## IncreaseX

Greatwhitenorth said:


> YES! Thanks for reminding me. Bias the amp properly first. Key point!




Hey guys I just dropped a new speaker in and I took your advice and checked the bias. One side was 38~ and the other was 46.4! After I balanced it out with some help from youtube the difference is stunning! And the new speaker is straight out of the box and not even broken in. A huge thanks to all of you.

I'll definately be around this forum in the future.

Thanks again all!


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

IncreaseX said:


> Hey guys I just dropped a new speaker in and I took your advice and checked the bias. One side was 38~ and the other was 46.4! After I balanced it out with some help from youtube the difference is stunning! And the new speaker is straight out of the box and not even broken in. A huge thanks to all of you.
> 
> I'll definately be around this forum in the future.
> 
> Thanks again all!



It honestly makes such a huge difference if your bias is out by that much, or even too hot/cold. It's the first thing to check if you're not digging the sound of your DSL40C. It feels good to fix these things on our own.


----------



## IRG

I have new tubes in my DSL40c (creamback speaker), both power and preamp and had it biased. About 2-3 weeks ago. Haven't played it much, maybe a few hours. Been traveling for work. Anyway, I'm getting a similar sound to a microphonic tube, which is what I had before. Maybe a preamp tube this time? I used a set recommended from Doug's Tubes. 

I'm going to try the process of elimination, and see what it could be. My amp tech also mentioned maybe a screw from the speaker surround has come loose, sort of sounds like that. The sound is the sort of hissing/rattling noise at certain frequencies, like an open A/D, and gets worse if a delay is being used, or if I play with a heavier technique. Hopefully it's a simple fix. But if I can't figure it out, and have gone through 2 sets of tubes in a few months (with few hours on them) then it might go back to Sweetwater. I do love the clean tone I get, although I'm not sure the new tubes did much to be honest. But this rattling noise is certainly ruining the clean tone. Anything else I should look for what I begin the process of elimination this weekend? Had hoped I was going to do more playing, and less amp diagnosis.


----------



## Micky

Look for some loose screws as well, especially around the transformers.


----------



## IRG

Micky said:


> Look for some loose screws as well, especially around the transformers.



Definitely looking for this sort of thing.


----------



## Leon of Late

Hi everyone. Long time guitar player and tinkerer here, but new to the forum and the DSL40C. I’ve been reading through this thread for a couple of weeks as time allows, but I have a question or two. Some background first. 

My 40C has some upgrades. C19 mod, Creamback speaker and a mix of my favorite NOS 12AX7’s in the preamp. I just bought a matched pair of NOS Siemens EL34’s, made by RFT in East Germany. Supposed to be darn good tubes. I took them to an amp tech I was referred to, to have them installed. He couldn’t get them to bias is my amp any lower than 48mA, which I realize is way too hot; it’s 90%. He put the stock Marshalls back in and they biased right up to 37.5. Same with and older pair of JJ’s he had lying around. First question… could these tubes really be THAT hot?

Regarding the bias resistors or trim pots, whichever are in this amp; could they need to be changed? If so, does anyone know if replacing them is suggested with this amp and how much it might run approximately? Is it a safe thing to have done? I keep my tinkering far away from the lethal voltage inside and restrict my tinkering to pre-amp tubes and speakers; I want to live longer to play.

Thanks in advance for your advice and cheers to a great thread. Oh, I’m in San Antonio if that helps!


----------



## Micky

Leon of Late said:


> Hi everyone. Long time guitar player and tinkerer here, but new to the forum and the DSL40C. I’ve been reading through this thread for a couple of weeks as time allows, but I have a question or two. Some background first.
> 
> My 40C has some upgrades. C19 mod, Creamback speaker and a mix of my favorite NOS 12AX7’s in the preamp. I just bought a matched pair of NOS Siemens EL34’s, made by RFT in East Germany. Supposed to be darn good tubes. I took them to an amp tech I was referred to, to have them installed. He couldn’t get them to bias is my amp any lower than 48mA, which I realize is way too hot; it’s 90%. He put the stock Marshalls back in and they biased right up to 37.5. Same with and older pair of JJ’s he had lying around. First question… could these tubes really be THAT hot?
> 
> Regarding the bias resistors or trim pots, whichever are in this amp; could they need to be changed? If so, does anyone know if replacing them is suggested with this amp and how much it might run approximately? Is it a safe thing to have done? I keep my tinkering far away from the lethal voltage inside and restrict my tinkering to pre-amp tubes and speakers; I want to live longer to play.
> 
> Thanks in advance for your advice and cheers to a great thread. Oh, I’m in San Antonio if that helps!



First, welcome. Many new members put a post in the Introduce Yourself section.

And second, yes, there is a very distinct possibility that the tubes ARE that hot. It is more common than you think...

Some time ago, I modded my DSL40c to accept 6550 finals, and the bias pots are actually fine. It is the range resistor that must be modified in your case, to provide more -bias voltage to bring the tubes into an acceptable bias range. When I modded mine, I couldn't get the 6550's to bias under 100, and modding the resistor allowed me to get them down to 50 or so.

You will need to search for the thread, I do remember starting a separate thread about it here. Sorry I can't find it right now, the MF doesn't stay stable here where I am staying tonite for more than a couple minutes at a time...


----------



## Leon of Late

Thanks Micky. So I assume its safe to change the range resistors. Is it expensive to have done? I don't think the guy who installed my tubes is capable.

And it's not just you. The forum is very unstable tonight.


----------



## jlinde1973

Micky said:


> First, welcome. Many new members put a post in the Introduce Yourself section.
> 
> And second, yes, there is a very distinct possibility that the tubes ARE that hot. It is more common than you think...
> 
> Some time ago, I modded my DSL40c to accept 6550 finals, and the bias pots are actually fine. It is the range resistor that must be modified in your case, to provide more -bias voltage to bring the tubes into an acceptable bias range. When I modded mine, I couldn't get the 6550's to bias under 100, and modding the resistor allowed me to get them down to 50 or so.
> 
> You will need to search for the thread, I do remember starting a separate thread about it here. Sorry I can't find it right now, the MF doesn't stay stable here where I am staying tonite for more than a couple minutes at a time...



How did you like the 6550s in the dsl?


----------



## ken361

Ordered some el34 tubes rings to keep the vibrations of the amp in check, it should help the longevity of the tubes. Marty strat also using them in his combos and he knows tubes bias at 34 really sounding great with the newer tubes burnt in, no c19cut for me with Warehouse Britsh leads.


----------



## Micky

jlinde1973 said:


> How did you like the 6550s in the dsl?



It's allright. Definitely louder, more headroom, and ball-shaking thump.
Especially thru a full stack. Wish I had a stock one to compare it to.


----------



## ken361

Whats KT 77's like just drop in and bias?


----------



## Woods

^That's what I hear.


----------



## MarshallDog

Woods said:


> ^That's what I hear.



Yup, thats all and it will be fine...


----------



## G the wildman

Starting to enjoy my DSL40c. I bought this to complement my Gibson LP, but it is so much easier to get warm tones with my American Fender Strat. It does have the S1 button.

LP still good on ultra gain.


----------



## PtTimeRckr

Finally got the gumption to bias. Wall voltage hot at 124+. Plate voltage hot at 473. Set bias at 36.5. Seems a bit cool compared to the 38 or so most go for. But Weber said 36.9 and I'd rather not run too hot. One side was 38.7 the other 41.3 off the truck. Thanks to all for the info, cautions and perspective to check all this stuff out. I feel better knowing i'd been running her hot for a year, but have been able to correct that. Curious if I'll notice (or like) any significant change.


----------



## Woods

Your fine, 36-38mv is in the middle.


----------



## G the wildman

Hi Micky

Is a 10 amp tester man enough to bias. A DSL 40c

G


----------



## Micky

G the wildman said:


> Hi Micky
> 
> Is a 10 amp tester man enough to bias. A DSL 40c
> 
> G



What? All you need is a meter that reads millivolts.
Post is useless without pictures...


----------



## TheCrunge

If you lower the bias and run "cool" does it decrease the gain? Does it warm up the amp?
the reason I ask is I just replaced my finals with Mullards and biased them to 38. And my red channel seems a bit harsh for me. I have the c19 mod already.


----------



## Micky

Yes. Generally a colder bias will increase headroom and lower the gain slightly.
Try 30-34 and see what a difference it makes.


----------



## TheCrunge

Micky said:


> Yes. Generally a colder bias will increase headroom and lower the gain slightly.
> Try 30-34 and see what a difference it makes.



I will thanks.


----------



## jlinde1973

Micky said:


> Yes. Generally a colder bias will increase headroom and lower the gain slightly.
> Try 30-34 and see what a difference it makes.



Too cold. It will sound lame. If you want a hot sound, then bias the amp hot. Pretty simple. On the dsl, I would go no lower than 38. 41 is perfect. Imo.


----------



## jlinde1973

I think more than anything, a cold bias will lose sustain. I've tried from 35 to 45 and anything less than 38 will sound sterile. Anything over 42 will sound sizzly....if that makes any sense.


----------



## TheCrunge

Well my red Chanel is very sizzley right now with my bias at 38. My green channel is as warm as a down blanket in January. Before I swapped my el34's the stock ones sounded pretty good on both green and red, but one of them was rattling something fierce. Hence forth the change.


----------



## Micky

jlinde1973 said:


> I think more than anything, a cold bias will lose sustain. I've tried from 35 to 45 and anything less than 38 will sound sterile. Anything over 42 will sound sizzly....if that makes any sense.



And you can back up that statement how?
And what B+ voltage did you use to calculate that?

Why not let the OP see for himself and then decide what he likes?

I have had cooler bias and it did nothing to affect sustain...


----------



## jlinde1973

Micky said:


> And you can back up that statement how?
> And what B+ voltage did you use to calculate that?
> 
> Why not let the OP see for himself and then decide what he likes?
> 
> I have had cooler bias and it did nothing to affect sustain...



No way man...marshall's are meant to run hot. They sound like ass biasd cold...all of them. We all know that.. Buy a fender if you want that clean sound. Marshalls are meant to roar.


----------



## Woods

^Depends on the tubes. DSL are well known to get fizzy above 65%; their designed to be biased colder. Even with my known-to-run-best-"warm" TAD EL34B-STR's. I run 38mv or so.


----------



## ken361

Like Micky said whats the plate voltage at? then run the bias calculator to determine the bias. I was at 36 then now 34, the red 1 is perfect the distortion is more together now and the crunch channel is even better. Too hot and that red channel is going to brighter and thinner some!


----------



## TheCrunge

ken361 said:


> Like Micky said whats the plate voltage at? then run the bias calculator to determine the bias. I was at 36 then now 34, the red 1 is perfect the distortion is more together now and the crunch channel is even better. Too hot and that red channel is going to brighter and thinner some!



Yes. My red is definitely brighter at 38. I'm going to try to lower it to 36 later and I'll post the results.


----------



## jlinde1973

ken361 said:


> Like Micky said whats the plate voltage at? then run the bias calculator to determine the bias. I was at 36 then now 34, the red 1 is perfect the distortion is more together now and the crunch channel is even better. Too hot and that red channel is going to brighter and thinner some!



No ken, every amp runs a little different. My marshall runs at 360 ish plates. 70% is just a guideline. U can run them at 80% with no trobles..I run my old mid 60s silvertone 1482 cathode biased 6v6's run at 100% with original black plate rca tubes and they still read over 100% on my tester. I actually lowered my cathode resistor to 250 ohms to bring them to 110% at plates and glowing blue...talk about a killer tone. The tubes can take it...Don't believe all of the hogwash you read. Marshalls are meant to run hot...if some idiot tells you to run them at 60%...then blow him off. He apparently doesn't know too much about marshall amps..


----------



## ken361

I just dont like real hot, keeps the red warmer


----------



## jlinde1973

I don't know, my red channel doesn't come to life unless it's biased at atleast 38-41. If I want it cleaner, a marshall definitely isn't the amp I want and I'll sell it to get something else. When I think of a warm and clean amp, marshall is the last thing to come to mind. There's just WAY too many clean amps out there to settle for a marshall. Kind of a no brainer if you think about it.


----------



## jlinde1973

Woods said:


> ^Depends on the tubes. DSL are well known to get fizzy above 65%; their designed to be biased colder. Even with my known-to-run-best-"warm" TAD EL34B-STR's. I run 38mv or so.



No you are way wrong.


----------



## TheCrunge

Well I just ripped open my DSL40 and checked the bias. It was 43.9! WTF? It went up from 38 by itself.
Is there a problem with my amp? Tubes? Is that normal for it to drift like that? I lowered it down to 34 and the red is much tamer now. Green 2 has a little less od then before but thats cool because green 2 is awesome no matter what. But the red is now scremin in a good way. I might raise the bias to 36.


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

No one is wrong, try different settings and find the one that you like. 

As for bias drift, I set mine at 37 per side and the next time I checked it was way out. I might even open it up when I'm off work on Friday.


----------



## TheCrunge

Greatwhitenorth said:


> No one is wrong, try different settings and find the one that you like.
> 
> As for bias drift, I set mine at 37 per side and the next time I checked it was way out. I might even open it up when I'm off work on Friday.



I think I found the one I like. My Neighbors, not so much


----------



## Bownse

I thought I read somewhere that there are some samples that experience bias drift to the point that it's an actual "problem" that either calls for warranty work or tech attention.

I couldn't point you to the place I read this though. Sorry.


----------



## rlowe

TheCrunge said:


> Well I just ripped open my DSL40 and checked the bias. It was 43.9! WTF? It went up from 38 by itself.
> Is there a problem with my amp? Tubes? Is that normal for it to drift like that? I lowered it down to 34 and the red is much tamer now. Green 2 has a little less od then before but thats cool because green 2 is awesome no matter what. But the red is now scremin in a good way. I might raise the bias to 36.


From: Eurotubes
Your amp is an adjustable bias amp so hot or cold grades of tubes do not matter, it's where you set the bias that will give you more clean headroom or an earlier breakup. Any adjustable bias amp needs to have the bias set when you change power tubes. Sticking to one brand means nothing because all tubes vary grade wise, which is why they are matched together to draw the same amount of current.

The DSL 40C amps are biased between 40-45 millivolts per side at the factory test points using a multimeter.

You can use the Marshall DSL100 video for reference as the bias procedure is the same. However, Marshall decided to locate the trim pots on the DSL 40C inside the amp so you must pull the chassis to bias it.

This video will guide you through the process:

https://www.eurotubes.com/store/pc/marshall dsl-tsl-jvm how to bias page.htm

If the tubes aren’t warmed up to optimal temperature they can settle in a bit. I would let the amp warm up for at least 5 minutes in standby then make your bias adjustment. Let it sit there in play mode or better yet, play it for around 10 minutes and then check it again. You may need to make a minor tweak at this point but after this the bias should be pretty stable.


----------



## Micky

Bownse said:


> I thought I read somewhere that there are some samples that experience bias drift to the point that it's an actual "problem" that either calls for warranty work or tech attention.
> 
> I couldn't point you to the place I read this though. Sorry.



On some of the older DSL50/100 & TSL amps the bias was controlled by a circuit that tended to 'drift' because of the weak traces and suspect PC board materials. These problems were addressed on the later models of these particular amps.

The new line does not generally exhibit these problems. There is a possibility that any particular tube can 'drift' as far as idle current (bias setting) is concerned, due to workmanship, quality of the coatings, etc. This is why it is critical to have a spare set of finals, as well as preamp tubes, in order to eliminate problems and possible costly repairs. 

One should also be familiar with the process of biasing an amp as well as the safety concerned with doing so. This goes a long way towards minimizing the cost and maintenance of a tube amplifier.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

jlinde1973 said:


> I don't know, my red channel doesn't come to life unless it's biased at atleast 38-41. If I want it cleaner, a marshall definitely isn't the amp I want and I'll sell it to get something else. When I think of a warm and clean amp, marshall is the last thing to come to mind. There's just WAY too many clean amps out there to settle for a marshall. Kind of a no brainer if you think about it.


A lower bias, not cold but lower, doesn't necessarily equal clean. A 40C red channel has oodles of gain. My TSL ran too hot at factory 45, too hot as in hotter than hell. Slightly colder bias around 84 per pair tightened up the low end yet still has plenty for liquid gain. I also don't like changing my tubes tooo often. No one I don't think is asking for a Fender clean Marshall here.


----------



## TheCrunge

Jethro Rocker said:


> A lower bias, not cold but lower, doesn't necessarily equal clean. A 40C red channel has oodles of gain. My TSL ran too hot at factory 45, too hot as in hotter than hell. Slightly colder bias around 84 tightened up the low end yet still has plenty for liquid gain. I also don't like changing my tubes tooo often. No one I don't think is asking for a Fender clean Marshall here.



Yeah if I wanted a fender clean I would have gotten a fender amp. But I got a Marshall for a reason. And with my bias running at almost 44 it was just a mess on red 1. Lowering it did the trick. It's anything but clean. But it has a more fuller gain. This is my 1st tube amp so I'm learning. You guys are great. Thanks.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

I meant 84 per pair! As in 42 per tube


----------



## WasStoNed

I've just pulled the trigger on the Stealth edition, got a very good deal in UK, it will arrive Friday, can't wait!!!

Any tube owner tips for a noob?


----------



## Joe_SG

I'm new here and I was wondering where is a good place to get replacement tubes for a DSL40c?


----------



## ken361

Tube depot been good to me, Dougs tubes


----------



## Joe_SG

Thanks, I saw a few people mention Doug's tubes. I'll check them out.


----------



## PtTimeRckr

WasStoNed said:


> I've just pulled the trigger on the Stealth edition, got a very good deal in UK, it will arrive Friday, can't wait!!!
> 
> Any tube owner tips for a noob?



Bias! Read alot and learn alot. Either take it to someone you trust or learn how to bias the power tubes. I finally got up the gumption over the weekend and it really evened things out for me. Still growls beautifully but has a confident punch and a touch more responsiveness to both finger styles and controls on my Les Paul.

Other than that, everything stock on mine. Loving it!

Best part... the more you learn early, the more you can experiment with mods and truly make it yours.

Last word: Listen to Micky and some others. Straight up advice without blanket opinion (no offense to others with strong beliefs). 

YMMV ( = your mileage may vary)

cheers!


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

The Tube Store is good as well.


----------



## WasStoNed

Cheers dude, I'll get reading 



PtTimeRckr said:


> Bias! Read alot and learn alot. Either take it to someone you trust or learn how to bias the power tubes. I finally got up the gumption over the weekend and it really evened things out for me. Still growls beautifully but has a confident punch and a touch more responsiveness to both finger styles and controls on my Les Paul.
> 
> Other than that, everything stock on mine. Loving it!
> 
> Best part... the more you learn early, the more you can experiment with mods and truly make it yours.
> 
> Last word: Listen to Micky and some others. Straight up advice without blanket opinion (no offense to others with strong beliefs).
> 
> YMMV ( = your mileage may vary)
> 
> cheers!


----------



## G the wildman

I have just bought a multi tester with 200 millivolt setting. Just building up courage to open my new baby up and test the bias. If I don't kill myself I will report findings in due course. 

This is now my go to amp scooped out sounds are great.

Classic gain on crunch great for clean sounds. Not really using full clean but it's there.


----------



## IRG

I think mine is going back, assuming Sweetwater will do it. My main issue is the noise I'm getting. I'll back up for a second. Mine has the Creamback speaker. I replaced the stock tubes (the original power tube went microphonic very quickly). That microphonic tube kept making a bad spitting/hissing noise. Fast forward, a few weeks ago I replaced all the tubes with a set from Doug's Tubes. I had a local expert (and yes, he has probably more experience in the industry than anyone here) replaced the tubes, and biased them.

So far, so good. But a similar vibrating noise has returned. So I decided to try a few things he suggested. All of the new tubes seem fine, I don't think any of them were bad. No noise when I tap on them, no issues that I see. I did however, need to tighten the screws holding the speaker in to the baffle. That seemed to be it. I put everything back together, and all seemed well. But now less than a week later, I'm hearing this damn vibrating noise again. Not as bad, but it shouldn't be there at all. If I'm playing with a band, I probably could ignore it. But for home/studio use, I can't get passed it. I'm not sinking any more money into it.

I think a Fender '68 Deluxe Reverb is in my future, hopefully. I prefer pedal gain anyways, even with the Marshall - which I will say was a very good pedal platform. I'm not 100% convinced I'll do this, I do like the clean tone of this amp, but this noise is driving me nuts. Anything I'm overlooking?


----------



## ken361

Some guy had the speaker cable hitting the speaker that caused noise, these amps are veryyy quiet for a combo with no tube rattles. It should be a simple fix you would think. Can you record it?


----------



## IRG

ken361 said:


> Some guy had the speaker cable hitting the speaker that caused noise, these amps are veryyy quiet for a combo with no tube rattles. It should be a simple fix you would think. Can you record it?



I might have to recheck that. It did initially seem quiet once I tightened the speaker screws. 

I'll see if I can record something. I got a new Fulltone OCD in the mail today, will be playing tonight with it. It seems to be certain frequencies that makes this vibration noise. It isn't always there. Tends to be more on the lower end of the frequency spectrum. And it's worse when I have a delay on. Not sure what it could be exactly. I might be too picky too. I have vibration problems in my room as well, on one wall I have an electric heater and the metal cover can vibrate a lot, but I've tried to dampen that and eliminate it. But this sound is coming from the amp I know that.


----------



## Natedog_37

Ok looking for a nice Cover for my DSL40.

This Amp gets moved at least 2/3 times a week for practice/shows so need something nice with some nice padding.

any suggesting?


----------



## ken361

Natedog_37 said:


> Ok looking for a nice Cover for my DSL40.
> 
> This Amp gets moved at least 2/3 times a week for practice/shows so need something nice with some nice padding.
> 
> any suggesting?



If you know someone that sew's making one is very cheap. My girlfriend made mine and we bought the material from Johann's fabric I believe or you can spend 60 bucks or so or spend like 10.00


----------



## Natedog_37

Well home much for her to make another? Your about a hour away from me


----------



## ken361

Natedog_37 said:


> Well home much for her to make another? Your about a hour away from me



Get some prices on other covers and let me know what your willing to pay things been real tight lately and will be lucky enough to buy material ahead and im not working.


----------



## Natedog_37

ken361 said:


> Get some prices on other covers and let me know what your willing to pay things been real tight lately and will be lucky enough to buy material ahead and im not working.



Let me see what is out there. I can buy all the supplies etc upfront if need. Anything to help a fellow member.


----------



## ken361

What I used was a vinyl with a cotton lining, its pretty decent. Also made a heavier one for a peavey 6505+ combo thats not even being used because I got rid of the amp its like new.


----------



## IRG

ken361 said:


> Some guy had the speaker cable hitting the speaker that caused noise, these amps are veryyy quiet for a combo with no tube rattles. It should be a simple fix you would think. Can you record it?



Just an iPhone video, but it's all I have. Just some random notes, but you can hear this vibrating noise pretty much throughout. Doesn't matter what guitar I used, Strat, LP, PRS, they all do it. Boost/gain or clean, unless the volume is very low.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWZrmM2QEHs


----------



## MarshallDog

Natedog_37 said:


> Ok looking for a nice Cover for my DSL40.
> 
> This Amp gets moved at least 2/3 times a week for practice/shows so need something nice with some nice padding.
> 
> any suggesting?



D2F covers. Cheap and fit perfect. They have great customer service. I have them for all of my amps and they are tough and have a nice padding, can't go wrong. You can find them on eBay all the time.


----------



## MarshallDog

Greatwhitenorth said:


> The Tube Store is good as well.



No like button so.......LIKE!


----------



## donnyrocker

IRG said:


> Anything I'm overlooking?



Thanks for posting. I've noticed a tube rattle after swapping speaker and tubes from stock. This is helpful.


----------



## BanditPanda

IRG said:


> . Anything I'm overlooking?


Yes. You've been saying this for months now. Ain't gonna happen.
Get it right and get on with it.
B.P.


----------



## riefil

IRG said:


> Just an iPhone video, but it's all I have. Just some random notes, but you can hear this vibrating noise pretty much throughout. Doesn't matter what guitar I used, Strat, LP, PRS, they all do it. Boost/gain or clean, unless the volume is very low.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWZrmM2QEHs



I have the same rattle each time I play. It turns out that the base board heating and something in my desk rattles when playing. In my case it's not the amp at all. Try moving the location of the amp (another room) temporarily and see if that helps.

Phil


----------



## ken361

IRG said:


> Just an iPhone video, but it's all I have. Just some random notes, but you can hear this vibrating noise pretty much throughout. Doesn't matter what guitar I used, Strat, LP, PRS, they all do it. Boost/gain or clean, unless the volume is very low.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWZrmM2QEHs



Not getting any sound for some reason some videos will do that for me if it is a tube rattle check on some damning rings. I just bought some for my power tubes for the vibrations that could cause issues down the line and some say it will sound better when the tubes aren't vibrating.


----------



## IRG

riefil said:


> I have the same rattle each time I play. It turns out that the base board heating and something in my desk rattles when playing. In my case it's not the amp at all. Try moving the location of the amp (another room) temporarily and see if that helps.
> 
> Phil




Yeah good idea. I should try another location entirely. I have it on an amp stand now, maybe something between the two is causing it. Stranger things have happened is suppose.


----------



## IRG

ken361 said:


> Not getting any sound for some reason some videos will do that for me if it is a tube rattle check on some damning rings. I just bought some for my power tubes for the vibrations that could cause issues down the line and some say it will sound better when the tubes aren't vibrating.




I'll look for some of these rings, that might indeed be the issue. If you have a link handy that would be cool, but I can search for it later as well.


----------



## IRG

BanditPanda said:


> Yes. You've been saying this for months now. Ain't gonna happen.
> Get it right and get on with it.
> B.P.



Thanks


----------



## ken361

Eurotubes sells the rings,since my el34's EH are more narrow I bought from Brentjessy Recordings. Theres even better ones for bad tube rattle but cost like 30 or so a piece! Its a metal ring with 3 dampness on one piece,cant think of the name off hand


----------



## ken361

I'm mostly a Les Paul player but my stock hss strat sounds pretty dam good on red 1 gain at 3 a good bias and tubes does it good! Year later and still impressed.


----------



## IRG

ken361 said:


> Eurotubes sells the rings,since my el34's EH are more narrow I bought from Brentjessy Recordings. Theres even better ones for bad tube rattle but cost like 30 or so a piece! Its a metal ring with 3 dampness on one piece,cant think of the name off hand



Cool, I'll check 'em out, thanks.


----------



## ken361

IRG said:


> Cool, I'll check 'em out, thanks.


Glad to help


----------



## ken361

IRG said:


> Cool, I'll check 'em out, thanks.



Herbies Audio for is the place I just found, if the cheaper ones don't work


----------



## IRG

Just washed the video from Eurotubes. I definitely think these will solve my issue. Makes sense too how they work. Will order ASAP. http://www.eurotubes.com/store/pc/viewCategories.asp?idCategory=8


----------



## Woods

^If your gonna do the JJ, get the EL34L. Thank me later..


----------



## Bownse

Natedog_37 said:


> Ok looking for a nice Cover for my DSL40.
> 
> This Amp gets moved at least 2/3 times a week for practice/shows so need something nice with some nice padding.
> 
> any suggesting?




I am very pleased with the one I got from D2F

http://www.d2fcovers.com/amplifier_covers.htm


----------



## WasStoNed

So I got my DSL40c on Friday and started looking around about bias'ing

I found this on You tube which covers disassembly and the job in hand

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jj3hSEjySxg

Sorry if it's a re-post


----------



## G the wildman

*bias tipi for DSL40C*

My DSL40c is about 6 weeks old I biased it today. The plate voltage is 473. One valve was reading 50.4 and the other 41. I have set them to 38. 

Improvements are many: an echoe has cleared; rattling/scratchy sound has cleared; clean is very clean. Scooped out OD is more authentic rather than brocken up.

Sadly reverb seems even fainter. But the amp is different. I will have to experiment with settings again.

TIP. When you remove the screws from the chassis ( with controls face down) take the rear screws out last and HOLD the chassis. It can lean out sharply and you may damage the valves. 

Have fun.

G


----------



## WasStoNed

*Re: bias tipi for DSL40C*

Nice one man, I was going to wait a little longer to do this but as yours was so out I'm going to check mine tomorrow.


Why can't the factory do this?!?




G the wildman said:


> My DSL40c is about 6 weeks old I biased it today. The plate voltage is 473. One valve was reading 50.4 and the other 41. I have set them to 38.
> 
> Improvements are many: an echoe has cleared; rattling/scratchy sound has cleared; clean is very clean. Scooped out OD is more authentic rather than brocken up.
> 
> Sadly reverb seems even fainter. But the amp is different. I will have to experiment with settings again.
> 
> TIP. When you remove the screws from the chassis ( with controls face down) take the rear screws out last and HOLD the chassis. It can lean out sharply and you may damage the valves.
> 
> Have fun.
> 
> G


----------



## ken361

Thats pretty dam high


----------



## ken361

your red channel a little hot try tuning in 432hz
https://youtu.be/bx7fogg-84Q


----------



## WasStoNed

So before I put mine back together I have 479 on the plate.

I've put on full power (Pentode) and bias'd to 37.9-38.0 fluctuating

The calc here http://www.tedweber.com/webervst/tubes1/calcbias.htm

says for my plate voltage I should be 36.5

so 36.5 or stick at 38


----------



## ken361

I think a little cooler would benefit the red channel for more warmth 34 or 36 I like 34


----------



## WasStoNed

I re-measured my plate it was 468 this time, so I've set the bias to 37.2 for now, thanks for chipping in though



ken361 said:


> I think a little cooler would benefit the red channel for more warmth 34 or 36 I like 34


----------



## IRG

Anyone order from Eurotubes? Nevermind, I think the shopping cart order has fixed itself finally.


----------



## G the wildman

Hi Ken,

When you say too hot try tuning to 432. How does one do that?

G


----------



## G the wildman

Ok my valves are set at 38 and and hot setting is 37 and recommended 32.

What harm am I doing if I leave it?

G


----------



## Woods

WasStoNed said:


> I re-measured my plate it was 468 this time, so I've set the bias to 37.2 for now, thanks for chipping in though



Nerd.. 



G the wildman said:


> recommended 32.
> 
> 
> G



Who recommended 32? Rhyme with me... Thirty eight is great! (Thirty eight is great!) Thirty eight is great! (Thirty eight is great!)


----------



## G the wildman

Cheers


----------



## ken361

G the wildman said:


> Hi Ken,
> 
> When you say too hot try tuning to 432. How does one do that?
> 
> G


set your tuner to 432Hz instead of standard 440 hz


----------



## Duffy49

Natedog_37 said:


> Ok looking for a nice Cover for my DSL40.
> 
> This Amp gets moved at least 2/3 times a week for practice/shows so need something nice with some nice padding.
> 
> any suggesting?




Buy some nice material and sew a custom one together. Just a suggestion.


----------



## G the wildman

Guys since setting the bias on my amp. I thought I should report that despite saying yesterday that the reverb is fainter. It is in fact working almost properly on green crunch so much so that I had to turn it down to 2.

The clarity of this channel is superb. If you have not set your bias yet you should. Mine is set at 38. These amps are clearly not tested properly in the factory.

But I am still impressed with this amp.


----------



## G the wildman

How long does it take to break in a speaker?


----------



## G the wildman

Thank you ken. Re the tuner tip.


----------



## ken361

G the wildman said:


> How long does it take to break in a speaker?



prb 40 hrs depending on the speaker some say 20+


----------



## wallinbb

Thanks to all who have posted here. My DSL40c with creamback got a matched pair of TAD EL34B-STR's and a 100 pf cap in c19 (thanks Micky) this past week, and I just could not be happier. My LP now sounds like I always wanted it to, both clean and dirty.

If I was happy with the amp before, I am crushing on it now.


----------



## MarshallDog

wallinbb said:


> Thanks to all who have posted here. My DSL40c with creamback got a matched pair of TAD EL34B-STR's and a 100 pf cap in c19 (thanks Micky) this past week, and I just could not be happier. My LP now sounds like I always wanted it to, both clean and dirty.
> 
> If I was happy with the amp before, I am crushing on it now.



Glad your happy with it...I have a 100 pF cap in C19 also FWIW, I have found that using the TUBE STORE 7025 brand 12AX7's really makes this amp sound great. Less compression, lower noise with that classic Marshall tone. It still has plenty of balls with out being ear piercing on the high end. I have tried many brands in this amp and keep coming back to these.


----------



## G the wildman

Hi Guys,

I am about to order a spare set of EL34 valves. I am thinking about Svetlanas and here in the UK I can get 3 versions.

1 original stock from 1999
2 current production
3 cryogenically treated.

They are all similar prices circa 60 to 70 pounds per pair.

Any comments that might help me would be welcomed.

G


----------



## ken361

Does your amps sound any different with the new cap turned up say 4 on the red compared to b4?


----------



## some_math_guy

Hi everybody, I just bought a DSL40C a few months ago and I love it, especially after loading it with a Vintage 30. It is my first tube amp; I have always used a Pod modeller directly into a PA system for the past 10 years, and the tone improvement is massive! 

There is an in/out switch on the back of the amp for turning the effects loop on/off, and I am wondering, *has anyone ever done a mod to make this function footswitchable?*. It would be great to be able to turn off all of my modulation effects (delay, phaser, flanger, tremolo etc ) off with a single footswitch. 

Thanks everybody for this awesome thread!


----------



## PtTimeRckr

some_math_guy said:


> Hi everybody, I just bought a DSL40C a few months ago and I love it, especially after loading it with a Vintage 30. It is my first tube amp; I have always used a Pod modeller directly into a PA system for the past 10 years, and the tone improvement is massive!
> 
> There is an in/out switch on the back of the amp for turning the effects loop on/off, and I am wondering, *has anyone ever done a mod to make this function footswitchable?*. It would be great to be able to turn off all of my modulation effects (delay, phaser, flanger, tremolo etc ) off with a single footswitch.
> 
> Thanks everybody for this awesome thread!



I'm not a pedals guy, but isn't this what a true bypass pedal is for? It might do what you're looking for without digging into the amp.

https://reverb.com/news/does-your-rig-need-a-true-bypass-looper


----------



## WasStoNed

Where are you ordering from? 



G the wildman said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I am about to order a spare set of EL34 valves. I am thinking about Svetlanas and here in the UK I can get 3 versions.
> 
> 1 original stock from 1999
> 2 current production
> 3 cryogenically treated.
> 
> They are all similar prices circa 60 to 70 pounds per pair.
> 
> Any comments that might help me would be welcomed.
> 
> G


----------



## G the wildman

I was intending to order from Watford valves


----------



## Joe_SG

I have a question for anyone out there. Has anyone tried to use the effects loop as a line out to a sound system? I'm thinking just create a loop that just goes right back in and has a parallel off of it to the sound system. Is this crazy or what? The *ONLY *thing I don't like about this amp is the fact there is no line out. Any other ideas about getting a line out without making modification ("Damn it I'm a musician not a electronics engineer, Jim") would be helpful.


----------



## Micky

Joe_SG said:


> I have a question for anyone out there. Has anyone tried to use the effects loop as a line out to a sound system? I'm thinking just create a loop that just goes right back in and has a parallel off of it to the sound system. Is this crazy or what? The *ONLY *thing I don't like about this amp is the fact there is no line out. Any other ideas about getting a line out without making modification ("Damn it I'm a musician not a electronics engineer, Jim") would be helpful.



Yes. Several hundred pages ago I mentioned this.
(apparently you have NOT read this complete thread...)
I have also used the FX in (return) as a power amp input for another amp used as a preamp only.
Works pretty good.


----------



## ken361

G the wildman said:


> I was intending to order from Watford valves



I would try Rubys just like Tads,Chinese tubes thick glass and a 7 month warranty


----------



## Jethro Rocker

some_math_guy said:


> Hi everybody, I just bought a DSL40C a few months ago and I love it, especially after loading it with a Vintage 30. It is my first tube amp; I have always used a Pod modeller directly into a PA system for the past 10 years, and the tone improvement is massive!
> 
> There is an in/out switch on the back of the amp for turning the effects loop on/off, and I am wondering, *has anyone ever done a mod to make this function footswitchable?*. It would be great to be able to turn off all of my modulation effects (delay, phaser, flanger, tremolo etc ) off with a single footswitch.
> 
> Thanks everybody for this awesome thread!



See PtTimeRckr response. Also, check -


----------



## Joe_SG

Sorry, No I haven't read the complete thread, because it is a couple of hundred pages. I will try to look back and find it. I guess there is a way to filter to find your posts. Thanks!


----------



## Joe_SG

Micky said:


> Yes. Several hundred pages ago I mentioned this.
> (apparently you have NOT read this complete thread...)
> I have also used the FX in (return) as a power amp input for another amp used as a preamp only.
> Works pretty good.


I've tried looking back but was unable to find this. Can you give me an idea about where or what number this post would be. I searched for "FX loop" and got a lot of hits but none about this topic.


----------



## Bownse

And when they took away the LIKE button it also broke the direct-link-to-message function.


----------



## Micky

Joe_SG said:


> I've tried looking back but was unable to find this. Can you give me an idea about where or what number this post would be. I searched for "FX loop" and got a lot of hits but none about this topic.



Without getting too cynical or sarcastic, let's just say the Search function here could work a little better. 

You will be best to try this yourself, the FX I/O is very versatile, I have used both seperately very successfully. For example, I have use the FX out (send) to connect to the input of a very powerful PA system (over 10KW) and the 40c preamp does very well. You do however need to match the output to the input as well as leave the speaker plugged into the 40c to match the finals, even though you have no signal into the power amp section.

The reverse is also easy, I have sent many different preamps into the power section of the 40c with good results. I even broke in one speaker with the output from an iPod direct into the FX in (return) with mixed results. It is easy to overdrive the FX in, although it takes many different levels without too much trouble.

As I mentioned, try it yourself to insure it can do what you need it to.


----------



## Joe_SG

Here is a picture of a Y cable I hope would work to use the FX loop as a line out. Anybody have any thoughts on this. I'm just not sure if the signal level from the FX loop is correct for a line out to a sound system. Is the FX loop before or after the preamp?


----------



## Joe_SG

Thanks I posted about the Y cable before I saw your last post. Thanks. I want the signal going back to the power amp for "on stage" sound but be able to give the feed to the sound system so they don't always have to mic my amp.


----------



## Micky

You didn't mention splitting the FX send.
I don't think it is a good idea without proper isolation of the signal.

But like anything, try it and let us know how it works for you!


----------



## IRG

Quick update, if anyone cares (probably sick of me by now). I got my silicon Tube Dampeners from Eurotubes in like 48 hours, very fast service (and we're on opposite ends of the country). They seemed like the perfect idea, to stop the tube vibration noise I've been getting. Unfortunately they didn't work. Might even be a tad worse. Although after playing a while, I would say the vibration noise lessened up a little bit, but still noticeable. Two options left, find an authorized dealer to take it to for free (but a fairly good distance away), and not sure how long I'll be without it. Or 2, take it to my local guy and pay the labor at $40/hour. Or 3) mail it back to sweetwater - probably $50--80 for shipping, and a long delay. Will probably take it to my local guy, might as well give it one more chance.


----------



## ken361

Try playing loud and grab each tube with glove or something to see if it is a tube issues


----------



## BanditPanda

IRG said:


> Will probably take it to my local guy, might as well give it one more chance.


 
Didn't you already take it to that guy once already?
B.P.


----------



## IRG

BanditPanda said:


> Didn't you already take it to that guy once already?
> B.P.



Once, but just to put in the new tubes, and bias the power tubes. Sweetwater gave me the names of two authorized dealers to work on it, I'll check them out first. Probably an hour away or so, versus 2 blocks from my office.


----------



## IRG

ken361 said:


> Try playing loud and grab each tube with glove or something to see if it is a tube issues




Good idea. I have a looper pedal, I think what I can do is just play a loop, and try it out that way. I don't think the tubes per se are the issue, since they're all new, but it does happen I suppose, that a new tube is bad. I get no vibration at all on any notes on the high B/E strings. Even the D string (open) doesn't seem to have an issue. It's the low E,A and G strings, and notes played on them that causes the vibration.


----------



## ken361

IRG said:


> Good idea. I have a looper pedal, I think what I can do is just play a loop, and try it out that way. I don't think the tubes per se are the issue, since they're all new, but it does happen I suppose, that a new tube is bad. I get no vibration at all on any notes on the high B/E strings. Even the D string (open) doesn't seem to have an issue. It's the low E,A and G strings, and notes played on them that causes the vibration.



I'm curious on whats causing it,can you make a Sound Cloud sample since I wasn't getting any audio from YouTube,that happens sometimes with my PC.


----------



## IRG

ken361 said:


> I'm curious on whats causing it,can you make a Sound Cloud sample since I wasn't getting any audio from YouTube,that happens sometimes with my PC.



Let me see what I can do in the next day or so. Just had a hot water heater crap the bed. Always something.


----------



## guitarman1956

I'm selling one...Who wants it?


----------



## HiggY

Hi Folks,
I now own a vst50h, a MG100hdfx and a dsl40c .A few others have graced my path all met with TLC and blessed with no issues.
Thank you Jim


----------



## ramblnmn

MarshallDog said:


> OK Guys, got my brand new DSL40C today! Tested it out and all was fine until I plugged in the footswitch. Both the Channel & Reverb buttons would switch the channels and the Reverb button would only turn the reverb on/off in the Ultra channel, it had no effect on the Classic channel, WTF!!! So I pulled the cover off and checked for lose wires and did some continuity checks and to me everything looked fine. I then called Music Store Live and spoke to a Guitar Sales person there describing what was going on and he thought something might be up with the wiring so I sent him a pic which is attached (the RED & BLACK needed to be switched). He thought for sure that the RED and BLACK wires installed wrong and needed to be switched. I then found a Youtube video of a Tech fixing the power cord on the same pedal and sure enough, the RED and BLACK were switched on his pedal. So The Music Store Live is having Marshall send me a new pedal seeing as they don't have any instock. Well, I was pissed and couldn't wait so I fired up my iron and switched them and what do ya know, the pedal and amp works fine!! Now that is some ****ing great Marshall QC! Anyway I wanted to post this just in case anyone else gets lucky and gets a bad footswitch, maybe this 5 min fix will help them out. I will still keep the new pedal as payment for my time, ha!
> 
> The amp sounds pretty dam good to me and I think it is a keeper. However, I do have a question, does lifting C19 make the Ultra channel darker, less fizzy or both? I don't think the Ultra channel is too brite just a bit fizzy and I am wondering if this will reduce the fizz a bit?
> 
> Thanks...
> 
> View attachment 15415



Is the attached picture shown the correct way the wiring should be?
If not what is the correct way?


----------



## G the wildman

Ok guys my mind is set. I am going to put a pair of Tad El34b str tubes in my DSL40c to try to improve tone. I also have terrible hum. I was intending to get 1 Tad 12xa7 for v1 will that help?


----------



## ken361

Hum could be the power tubes also I had that.


----------



## Micky

G the wildman said:


> Ok guys my mind is set. I am going to put a pair of Tad El34b str tubes in my DSL40c to try to improve tone. I also have terrible hum. I was intending to get 1 Tad 12xa7 for v1 will that help?



Hum could be mis-matched bias.
Does it hum with nothing plugged in?


----------



## wallinbb

ken361 said:


> Does your amps sound any different with the new cap turned up say 4 on the red compared to b4?



Yes. Clearer, stronger. To my ears. Much more like the green crunch channel, but up to the next level of smooth gain.


----------



## G the wildman

Hi Micky

I will test the amp with nothing plugged in tomorrow. But the bias is 37.2 on both.

G


----------



## WasStoNed

I'd try backing down the bias too, mine is also on 37.2 and on clean I get no hiss/hum but move to the green crunch or red channels and it's noticeable (until I play it) I'm talking bedroom volumes here too.

I'm going to drop mine down to 34 and step up, it's a shame the biasing can't be done without disassembly.



G the wildman said:


> Hi Micky
> 
> I will test the amp with nothing plugged in tomorrow. But the bias is 37.2 on both.
> 
> G


----------



## Bownse

If you have the soldering skills or a good amp tech, test ports and pots can be installed on the exterior.


----------



## G the wildman

Micky said:


> Hum could be mis-matched bias.
> Does it hum with nothing plugged in?



Hi Micky, the amp hums and buzzes with and without a guitar attached. Does that tell me anything.

My Tad El34b str tubes are arriving today so I can lower the bias if you think that is wise. From memory I think I set them at 38. I was going to try 35 this time.

I have not ordered my pre-amp tubes yet so will address that once the finals are in.

Cheers

G


----------



## Micky

At this point it is difficult to say.
It is more important to have equal (balanced, or matched) bias between the finals more than anything else. Bias current is just an 'idle' setting, and as long as it is balanced it shouldn't hum. Whether you set it at 35 or 45 doesn't matter as long as they are balanced.

You may get more (longer) life out of a set if you bias them lower. To me it is all a matter of personal taste, lower bias to me means more headroom and less fizz on settings with higher gain. YMMV

But then again, my DSL40c is not like yours.


----------



## G the wildman

Thank you Micky,

The tads are in and biased at 35. The amp is generally BRIGHTER so that is good news. 

Regarding the hum, the amp is fine on all settings with no guitar attached. The hum is virtually gone with my fender. But still quite evident with my Les Paul. Especially on pentode

So do I assume it is the LP - possibly action too low? 


Is this something I have to live with or can it be cleared?

Thank you for help to date.

G


----------



## Micky

You need to be more accurate about your description of hum.
If you plug your guitar into the amp and it starts to hum, then yes, of course it is your guitar.

Also a small amount of guitar noise is to be expected, especially with hotter pickups.

As long as the amp is quiet with nothing plugged in, you are good.


----------



## ken361

G the wildman said:


> Thank you Micky,
> 
> The tads are in and biased at 35. The amp is generally BRIGHTER so that is good news.
> 
> Regarding the hum, the amp is fine on all settings with no guitar attached. The hum is virtually gone with my fender. But still quite evident with my Les Paul. Especially on pentode
> 
> So do I assume it is the LP - possibly action too low?
> 
> 
> Is this something I have to live with or can it be cleared?
> 
> Thank you for help to date.
> 
> G


surprised its brighter, you would think it would be warmer. Check the plate voltage anyway first? Sounds like the Les Paul shielding or jack causing the hum?? maybe. Did the Fender hum b4?


----------



## IRG

ken361 said:


> Try playing loud and grab each tube with glove or something to see if it is a tube issues




Tried it, wasn't that. Taking it in to an authorized repair shop next week. Small shop, the guy has been in business for years. Works from 5 a.m. until he can't work anymore. Hopefully he doesn't drop dead from exhaustion before he fixes my amp


----------



## G the wildman

ken361 said:


> surprised its brighter, you would think it would be warmer. Check the plate voltage anyway first? Sounds like the Les Paul shielding or jack causing the hum?? maybe. Did the Fender hum b4?



Hi Ken and Micky,

I have only been playing for 12 months so some of my terminology me be wrong. The amp probably is warmer (less harsh).

There are now three things to note:
1 it is only the LP that hums/buzzes. I am not sure if the strat ever buzzed. It does have noiseless pups.
2 the amp is fine with nothing in it on half power.
3,the amp buzzes with nothing attached on full power. I don't use full power so this is not a problem at this stage.

Unless you have any final points I will get my local tech to check the LP.

Thanks for your help. 

G


----------



## WasStoNed

To G the Wildman

I had a play with mine this eve and the hum is not there unplugged, with my SG plugged in directly the hum is actually greater than going through my pedals. Again it's only the OD and reds that do it.
When I mute/touch a string the hum virtually stops

For me it is not an issue though as it's not an 'in your face' noise

I got a full set of JJ tubes from ampvalves.co.uk as spares so may fit them to see if it betters or worsens

Hope you sort yours


----------



## ken361

I have a slight hum but its from the loop I have a delay there with one good Mogami cord and a cheap one. Not really a big deal though.


----------



## some_math_guy

Thank you so much! I ended up using my Boss PS-5 to create my own switchable effects loop inside of the amp effects loop. Now I can turn off all of my delay, chorus, phase 90 etc off by hitting the PS-5. I read some famous lead guitarist uses two of them live to switch between 2 effects chains.

I have another problem though....my amp has been crackling lately when I play it; I thought it might be a bad instrument cable, but I tried others and had the same issue, direct into the amp with no other cables plugged into the amp. Then, after a few minutes on the amp switches into a LOUD buzzing noise, volume is controllable with the volume knob. 

You can hear the sound start at 2:08 in this quick demo youtube vid I made:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4aVENzXtpE
*
Is this likely a failed preamp tube?* I tapped each of them with a wooden drumstick, and one of them made a huge BOOM through the speaker once. Nothing different after that; no tube burning brighter than the others, etc. The amp is about 2 years old with moderate use. 

Should I pick up new ECC83's? New power tubes? Rebias? Help!



Jethro Rocker said:


> See PtTimeRckr response. Also, check -


----------



## ken361

some_math_guy said:


> Thank you so much! I ended up using my Boss PS-5 to create my own switchable effects loop inside of the amp effects loop. Now I can turn off all of my delay, chorus, phase 90 etc off by hitting the PS-5. I read some famous lead guitarist uses two of them live to switch between 2 effects chains.
> 
> I have another problem though....my amp has been crackling lately when I play it; I thought it might be a bad instrument cable, but I tried others and had the same issue, direct into the amp with no other cables plugged into the amp. Then, after a few minutes on the amp switches into a LOUD buzzing noise, volume is controllable with the volume knob.
> 
> You can hear the sound start at 2:08 in this quick demo youtube vid I made:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4aVENzXtpE
> *
> Is this likely a failed preamp tube?* I tapped each of them with a wooden drumstick, and one of them made a huge BOOM through the speaker once. Nothing different after that; no tube burning brighter than the others, etc. The amp is about 2 years old with moderate use.
> 
> Should I pick up new ECC83's? New power tubes? Rebias? Help!


I just replied to you on the Tube would try the diff preamp tube one by one start with that loud one first, its good to have extra in stock. Could be a power tube also.


----------



## some_math_guy

Thank you so much for the tip G, I just got this DSL40C (my first tube amp) about a year ago after playing through crappy solid state amps, and later Line 6 Pod XT Live into PA systems for the last 15 years....and what a MASSIVE improvement in tone! I ditched all of the solid state and amp modelling and went to all stompboxes into the DSL40C, but, I didn’t know that there were best practices around how to power up / power down tube amps.

From my google research, it seems like this is the best procedure:

1) Turn ON power switch for about 1-2 minutes to warm up the tubes
2) Plug one end of cord into guitar
3) Plug other end of cord into amp
4) Turn the standby ON after those 1-2 minutes have elapsed
5) Ready to rock!

To power down, you can turn off both power and standby switches at the same time. Do not move the amp for at least 10 minutes to avoid banging the tubes and causing damage.

Also, anytime you are unplugging any cables (either from the amp or the guitar, or effects loop), flip to Standby to avoid sending potentially damaging signals to the tubes.

*Does this sound right?
*
Thanks!

Kev


Quote:
Originally Posted by *G the wildman* 
_Hi 

I note that you do not switch to standby before unplugging your guitar. Or do you have power off facility on your leads.

Anyway that could damage your valves. Try to get in to the habit. 

Good luck with tube experimentation

G_


----------



## Bownse

Looks reasonable to me.

In it's stationary location at home, I leave the 90 degree plug in the amp and only plug in the guitar (during warm up). Miserly as I am, I figure each time I avoid exercising the jack, is that much longer it lasts before needing replacement. I know that's inconsequential but it's my rationalization. Sort of like never stepping on the base line when going up to bat in baseball.


----------



## some_math_guy

It was indeed a bad preamp tube  I switched out the preamp tubes one at a time with a new Groove Tubes ECC83 until I found the bad one, it was V2. I also took the opportunity to bias the amp; plate voltage was 442V and it was biased to 33.2 and 35.3 respectively, so I reset both sides to ~38mV. The amp rocks now!

Thank you so much for your help!



ken361 said:


> I just replied to you on the Tube would try the diff preamp tube one by one start with that loud one first, its good to have extra in stock. Could be a power tube also.


----------



## ken361

Glad to help! thats a ugly noise huh!


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

I just wanted to post in this weird alternate universe. DSL related, I plugged in my acoustic last night just for S n G and had a fun night playing. Was it perfect? Hell no, but it was fun getting some real volume out of my Taylor.


----------



## Gtrman100

I swapped the C19 stock cap for a 270pf one. It sounds great! I compared the stock cap, the 270 and no cap; the 270 is a nice compromise. The treble control is now usable and there is plenty of range to control the high frequencies. It was a bit muddy sounding to me with no cap in the circuit. YMMV


----------



## ken361

Be nice to hear some mic'd demos of diff caps


----------



## Ye Auld

Micky said:


> Probably a preamp tube, best to take a known good 12AX7 and try it in each spot to try and narrow down the problem.
> 
> It could very well be V1, but it is difficult to tell at this point until you try different tubes.
> 
> There IS a very large difference between clean and crunch, (at least on my amp) but not as great as you have described. When running clean, I often find I need to crank it to 10 to be heard over everything else.
> 
> In this amp, everything goes thru V1a, only Ultra Lead1/2 goes thru V1b. V2a & b and V3a & b are cascaded gain stages before it hits the tone stack. V4 is the Phase Inverter, part of the power amp section. This should be easy to narrow down.
> 
> Also please specify the front panel settings, especially the gain & tone...


Hey Micky, thank you for all the info on the DSL 40C amp, I'm about to buy this amp and with all the pre amp tubes failing I'm a bit scare now, I got 2 sovtek mullards reissue but I don't know where would be the best positiions to put them in this amp, and also I don't know which is V1 or V4 and what positions does what, if you could explain me I will be really thankfull, cheers !!!


----------



## Micky

Ye Auld said:


> Hey Micky, thank you for all the info on the DSL 40C amp, I'm about to buy this amp and with all the pre amp tubes failing I'm a bit scare now, I got 2 sovtek mullards reissue but I don't know where would be the best positiions to put them in this amp, and also I don't know which is V1 or V4 and what positions does what, if you could explain me I will be really thankfull, cheers !!!


I have gone over this before, and in some other threads as well, I wish I could find the reference to that particular post in this thread. No way am I gonna sift thru almost 300 pages of posts... So here goes:

You need to remember that preamp tubes (most of them) such as the 12AX aeries are actually 2 tubes in one glass envelope.

Also, the DSL40c is a 2-channel amp, with 2 'modes' for each channel, effectively giving 4 different voices.

V1a is the input buffer for both channels of the amp. V1b is the first gain stage of the Ultra Channel. V1B is bypassed for the Classic channel.
V2 is strictly a cascaded gain stage tube, the output of V1 feeds V2a, and that output feeds V2b. This is essentially the difference between Classic and Ultra, Classic goes V1a->V2a->V2b and Ultra goes from V1a->V1b->V2a->V2b. Follow me so far?

From V2 onward, both channels go thru basically the same path, with only slight variations.

V3 is what some call the 'tone stack' as the EQ controls are located right after the circuitry of this tube. It essentially is yet another 2 gain stages, as the output from V2b feeds V3a, which in turn feeds V3b. The EQ controls come next, and then the reverb circuitry. After this is the Master Volume (MV) for each channel. Yhen, just before V4 is the FX Send and Return.

V4 is actually NOT a preamp tube, it is part of the power section. Commonly referred to a the Phase Inverter (PI) it is what allows the signal from the preamp to push the power tubes in a Class A/B (Push-Pull) operation. It splits the signal into 2, and then flips one side out of phase to feed the finals.

I know there may be inaccuracies in this long-winded reply, so deal with it. It is an explanation for the majority of us... In all reality, I think I did a much better job earlier on in the thread. Maybe someone can find it and PermaLink it here.


----------



## Ye Auld

That was a good explanation Micky, and thank you for taking the time to explained it, the only thing that is still foggy is that V1 is the tube with the plastic ring, right ???


----------



## Micky

Ye Auld said:


> That was a good explanation Micky, and thank you for taking the time to explained it, the only thing that is still foggy is that V1 is the tube with the plastic ring, right ???


Yes, there is a grommet or o-ring around V1. It helps reduce 'microphonic' vibration by dampening the glass.
It is important that V1 be a lo-microphonic tube, because it is amplified over and over again. The least little problem with V1 will be very noticeable once the signal reaches the power tubes. I think if you read back a few pages you can read about these types of tubes, and how Marshall marks them with 2 or more red dots.

Other tubes can be used in V1, I believe I have a Mullard I61 NOS tube in mine.


----------



## ken361

Ye Auld said:


> That was a good explanation Micky, and thank you for taking the time to explained it, the only thing that is still foggy is that V1 is the tube with the plastic ring, right ???


yes


----------



## Luca_Vezza

Wow... just joined this forum (I've had my DSL40C for about a year). And it's a huuuge source of info, guys!
Actually, probably even too huge, easy to get lost... I mean, I'm posting this to page #285 of this thread .
Is there any chance to have a "fast-forward" version, or a kind of central location well the main things are collected (mods, bias instructions, pictures...)? Or should I just take the time to sit and go through all the messages?

In any case, I think it would be useful to have a place where quick links can easily be found, even for long-time members.

Thanks!

Luca


----------



## Micky

Luca_Vezza said:


> Wow... just joined this forum (I've had my DSL40C for about a year). And it's a huuuge source of info, guys!
> Actually, probably even too huge, easy to get lost... I mean, I'm posting this to page #285 of this thread .
> Is there any chance to have a "fast-forward" version, or a kind of central location well the main things are collected (mods, bias instructions, pictures...)? Or should I just take the time to sit and go through all the messages?
> 
> In any case, I think it would be useful to have a place where quick links can easily be found, even for long-time members.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Luca


We actually created an index, but that was in the older forum software and Mods were unable to put the Index in the 1st post...
The PermaLinks to those pages would be inaccurate with the new form software, so we need to create a new one.
Sounds like a good job for a newbie...

Anyway, many new members here put a post in the Introduce Yourself section where you get a chance to tell us all about yourself and what gear you use.
It also helps to tell us what type of music you play and what bands have influenced you.
I am certain that you will find lots of tips and tricks in this thread, and there are a bunch of expert members here ready to help ypou if they can. Don't be afraid to ask.
Welcome aboard and feel free to post your experiences and ask your DSL40c questions here!


----------



## Luca_Vezza

Wow, did not know about the Introduce Yourself thing, so just done it!

About the idea of collecting useful links, let me see what solution could do the job and if I could handle that. I'll get back to you on this, promised.

Luca


----------



## G the wildman

Luca_Vezza said:


> Wow, did not know about the Introduce Yourself thing, so just done it!
> 
> About the idea of collecting useful links, let me see what solution could do the job and if I could handle that. I'll get back to you on this, promised.
> 
> Luca


Try googling "how to bias a DSL40c" a guy called Mark Jenkins had a great video on You Tube


----------



## ramblnmn

MarshallDog said:


> OK Guys, got my brand new DSL40C today! Tested it out and all was fine until I plugged in the footswitch. Both the Channel & Reverb buttons would switch the channels and the Reverb button would only turn the reverb on/off in the Ultra channel, it had no effect on the Classic channel, WTF!!! So I pulled the cover off and checked for lose wires and did some continuity checks and to me everything looked fine. I then called Music Store Live and spoke to a Guitar Sales person there describing what was going on and he thought something might be up with the wiring so I sent him a pic which is attached (the RED & BLACK needed to be switched). He thought for sure that the RED and BLACK wires installed wrong and needed to be switched. I then found a Youtube video of a Tech fixing the power cord on the same pedal and sure enough, the RED and BLACK were switched on his pedal. So The Music Store Live is having Marshall send me a new pedal seeing as they don't have any instock. Well, I was pissed and couldn't wait so I fired up my iron and switched them and what do ya know, the pedal and amp works fine!! Now that is some ****ing great Marshall QC! Anyway I wanted to post this just in case anyone else gets lucky and gets a bad footswitch, maybe this 5 min fix will help them out. I will still keep the new pedal as payment for my time, ha!
> 
> The amp sounds pretty dam good to me and I think it is a keeper. However, I do have a question, does lifting C19 make the Ultra channel darker, less fizzy or both? I don't think the Ultra channel is too brite just a bit fizzy and I am wondering if this will reduce the fizz a bit?
> 
> Thanks...
> 
> View attachment 15415


----------



## ramblnmn

Please tell my wires are crossed...!!!


----------



## MarshallDog

ramblnmn said:


> Please tell my wires are crossed...!!!



Are you asking a question about your footswitch? I don't understand??


----------



## Natedog_37

Ok question.

Amp on but on stand by and it is dead quiet.

Turn standby off and I am getting white noise.

Tried on half and full power. Nothing plugged into the amp, and the effect loop I tried on and off.

Is this normal. I don't remember this noise before.

I have a video of it just need to get it uploaded.


----------



## MarshallDog

Natedog_37 said:


> Ok question.
> 
> Amp on but on stand by and it is dead quiet.
> 
> Turn standby off and I am getting white noise.
> 
> Tried on half and full power. Nothing plugged into the amp, and the effect loop I tried on and off.
> 
> Is this normal. I don't remember this noise before.
> 
> I have a video of it just need to get it uploaded.



Amlittle bit of white noise is common if the volume and the gain is up in these amps. I get some also. Popping, scratching, etc is not normal however.


----------



## Natedog_37

MarshallDog said:


> Amlittle bit of white noise is common if the volume and the gain is up in these amps. I get some also. Popping, scratching, etc is not normal however.




Green channel Volume at 5, gain at maybe 3. I will have to post a video I get a little popping or that is what I think it is.


----------



## bad565ss

I just bought a bag of grommets for my pre-amp tubes from McMaster-Carr. Their catalogue #9600K89. 10 pc bag is $12.36 plus shipping.
This grommet fits the chassis holes and 12ax7-ecc83 tubes. The tubes were more difficult to install but mine were rattling on the chassis and
making noise. This is the cure.


----------



## Chris00

Hello everyone, 
So I got the DSL40CST (DSL40C with creamback upgrade) from Sweetwater a while ago. 
Liking the amp so far, but I feel the treble control is sort of useless. It is so bright that it is piercing. Also, the low end isn't very defined and comes off as "farty" if I could use any word. I know there are some threads on this already, but I am curious if anyone else who had these same problems successfully modded their amp- and if so, I would appreciate sound clips. If not, I would like to hear about how the tone was changed so I can try the mods myself.
I am aware of the C19 mod but don't want to potentially mess anything up before the warranty is up.
I play mostly classic rock/80's metal- ZZ Top, AC/DC, Van Halen, Def Leppard, etc.
Any ideas?
Thanks.
(Sorry to copy and paste my other original post, I was pointed here for advice)


----------



## MarshallDog

Chris00 said:


> Hello everyone,
> So I got the DSL40CST (DSL40C with creamback upgrade) from Sweetwater a while ago.
> Liking the amp so far, but I feel the treble control is sort of useless. It is so bright that it is piercing. Also, the low end isn't very defined and comes off as "farty" if I could use any word. I know there are some threads on this already, but I am curious if anyone else who had these same problems successfully modded their amp- and if so, I would appreciate sound clips. If not, I would like to hear about how the tone was changed so I can try the mods myself.
> I am aware of the C19 mod but don't want to potentially mess anything up before the warranty is up.
> I play mostly classic rock/80's metal- ZZ Top, AC/DC, Van Halen, Def Leppard, etc.
> Any ideas?
> Thanks.
> (Sorry to copy and paste my other original post, I was pointed here for advice)



Without doing the c19 mod and already having the Creamback in it, theres not much you can do other than changing tubes. I use the Mullard EL34s and the Tube Store 7025 12ax7s. This opens the amp up with less fizz and less ear piercing highs. The 7025s are low noise and have a 6 month warranty to boot. I use them in a few other amps to help me get the classic 70/80s tone. I have tried many other preamp tubes and keep coming back to these everytime.


----------



## ken361

rebias it!


----------



## MarshallDog

ken361 said:


> rebias it!



Does rebiasing make that much of a difference? I am assuming you mean bias it on the cooler side? I have tried this and it made such subtle change I couldn't tell the difference hardly at all.


----------



## ken361

MarshallDog said:


> Does rebiasing make that much of a difference? I am assuming you mean bias it on the cooler side? I have tried this and it made such subtle change I couldn't tell the difference hardly at all.


Yeah thats what I meant cooler I dont have that speaker but the WSG british Lead is much warmer then the 70/80 I had and more bass. Some times I think the Celestions are a bit bright anyways. I always change the preamp tubes anyways. And re adjust your guitars pickups!! maybe there there high on the high E? and pole pieces.


----------



## ken361

Sometimes the bias is way off from one tube to another


----------



## Micky

ken361 said:


> Sometimes the bias is way off from one tube to another


I agree. Insure your bias is set each side equal.
As I replied in your original post thread, 
Turn down the Treble & Presence to reduce the brightness...
Turn down the Bass & Resonance to lessen the farty lows.

What volume are you running at? (MV & Gain)
Which channel is this happening on?


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

Also, the brand new speaker probably needs break in time. 40ish hours till it loosens up.


----------



## Gtrman100

Chris00 said:


> Hello everyone,
> So I got the DSL40CST (DSL40C with creamback upgrade) from Sweetwater a while ago.
> Liking the amp so far, but I feel the treble control is sort of useless. It is so bright that it is piercing. Also, the low end isn't very defined and comes off as "farty" if I could use any word. I know there are some threads on this already, but I am curious if anyone else who had these same problems successfully modded their amp- and if so, I would appreciate sound clips. If not, I would like to hear about how the tone was changed so I can try the mods myself.
> I am aware of the C19 mod but don't want to potentially mess anything up before the warranty is up.
> I play mostly classic rock/80's metal- ZZ Top, AC/DC, Van Halen, Def Leppard, etc.
> Any ideas?
> Thanks.
> (Sorry to copy and paste my other original post, I was pointed here for advice)


I have the same amp, and felt the same way you did; the amp is super bright out of the box. I bought mine used with less than an hour on it, so the speaker wasn't broken in.

I changed C19 from the stock 470pf, to a 270pf, and it makes the treble more reasonable, and the treble control usefull. Before the change, I had the treble control almost off, and the presence control lowered too.

It's very easy to clip one leg of C19 and then resolder it if you don't like the way it sounds. If you do it cleanly, you can probably get away with it not voiding the warranty.

Also, the advice about biasing the amp is important too. Do that, break in the speaker, and experiment with the C19 mod and you should be very happy. I am...


----------



## IRG

So my DSL40C is in for service for this rattle problem. I decided to go to my Fender Humboldt (modded Blues Jr) while it's in the shop, and holy cow, I couldn't ever go back to a small sound amp. Everything sounded terrible to me now. I love the deep, low end that the Marshall has (and I'm only comparing the clean channels here). The midrange seems better suited for eveyrthing, and the highs are less brittle. And the Fender has a nice hemp cone in it. In fact after about 10 minutes, I didn't want to play anymore, and shut eveyrthing down. What I like in playing skills, I make up for in tone, lol. Maybe now I'll look at a higher end Marshall, I think it is the sound I hear in my head. Or just enjoy what I have, for now at least.


----------



## bad565ss

IRG said:


> So my DSL40C is in for service for this rattle problem. I decided to go to my Fender Humboldt (modded Blues Jr) while it's in the shop, and holy cow, I couldn't ever go back to a small sound amp. Everything sounded terrible to me now. I love the deep, low end that the Marshall has (and I'm only comparing the clean channels here). The midrange seems better suited for eveyrthing, and the highs are less brittle. And the Fender has a nice hemp cone in it. In fact after about 10 minutes, I didn't want to play anymore, and shut eveyrthing down. What I like in playing skills, I make up for in tone, lol. Maybe now I'll look at a higher end Marshall, I think it is the sound I hear in my head. Or just enjoy what I have, for now at least.



Did you see my post about the grommets?


----------



## Micky

bad565ss said:


> Did you see my post about the grommets?


You can now permalink a previous post:

The Official Marshall DSL40c Information Thread

Anyway it is post 5700...


----------



## manofsteel2397

The low end gets better after speaker break in I had the same problem, where the low end sounded flubery, but once the speaker broke in ......pure bliss .
You do need to dial the treble in though, can take some time but the amount of different sounds you get just by tweaking tiny amounts is amazing


----------



## manofsteel2397

I have the sweetwater creamback as well


----------



## IRG

bad565ss said:


> Did you see my post about the grommets?



No! Searching now...I noticed this site looks a little better now. Tough to keep up!


----------



## IRG

bad565ss said:


> I just bought a bag of grommets for my pre-amp tubes from McMaster-Carr. Their catalogue #9600K89. 10 pc bag is $12.36 plus shipping.
> This grommet fits the chassis holes and 12ax7-ecc83 tubes. The tubes were more difficult to install but mine were rattling on the chassis and
> making noise. This is the cure.



Thanks. I might forward this info to the amp technician that has mine now. I do have tube dampeners on mine as well, which did nothing. I'll check into these grommets though, cheap enough of a fix. Wonder why Marshall doesn't have these on in the first place, as obviously I'm not the only person with this issue. But maybe it's relatively rare.


----------



## ken361

Sometimes a microphonic tube will make a rattle type noise, I cant see how tubes will rattle on the dsl. If it was a el84 amp then sure. Mines the most quiet combo I ever had, if you look inside the boards theres really nothing that could rattle but who knows. Hope he fixes the issues.


----------



## ken361

IRG said:


> Thanks. I might forward this info to the amp technician that has mine now. I do have tube dampeners on mine as well, which did nothing. I'll check into these grommets though, cheap enough of a fix. Wonder why Marshall doesn't have these on in the first place, as obviously I'm not the only person with this issue. But maybe it's relatively rare.


Keep the dampeners in anyways its better for the power tubes by keeping the vibrations to a minimum and should last longer from going microphonic.


----------



## Micky

IRG said:


> No! Searching now...I noticed this site looks a little better now. Tough to keep up!


No need to search, I PermaLinked it in post 5712


----------



## Ye Auld

Micky and Ken thank you for the reply about V1 tube


----------



## MarshallDog

Ye Auld said:


> Micky and Ken thank you for the reply about V1 tube



I bought the tube covers and installed them on all the preamp tubes and I use the tube dampeners on the power tubes and have never had an issue...


----------



## MarshallDog

IRG said:


> Thanks. I might forward this info to the amp technician that has mine now. I do have tube dampeners on mine as well, which did nothing. I'll check into these grommets though, cheap enough of a fix. Wonder why Marshall doesn't have these on in the first place, as obviously I'm not the only person with this issue. But maybe it's relatively rare.



Marshall is like every other Company out there...just trying two save 50 cents where ever and however they can...


----------



## Ye Auld

Micky said:


> Well now I am officially a cork-sniffer...
> 
> Marty put together a HOAD (Hell Of A Deal) for me, and now I am an Official owner of some vintage NOS glass. I hope he will check in here and give an explanation of what I now have installed in my DSL, as I cannot begin to detail what is in there. They arrived last week:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The big part of the deal was the TAD EL34B-STR power tubes. These things are amazing. He was kind enough to allow me to test these tubes as long as I provided a review. These aren't NOS by any means, they are just new. When he measures the transconductance for the pair I got, it was higher than normal. I think this attributed to one of the major features I noticed with these tubes.
> 
> New power tubes alone made two slight but definite differences. The first thing I noticed is that the cleans seemed louder. This was the first big thing I noticed. The second thing I noticed was that it 'woke up' my reverb. I have no idea how this could happen, or what could cause this. The reverb seemed deeper and more intense. Normally it is weak and unremarkable, but now it is actually usable.
> 
> Here is a photo of one of the TAD's:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next up would be V1, a vintage Mullard:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never thought I could afford one of these. Wicked gain, perfect for Classic Rock...
> 
> In V2 a Raytheon Black Plate:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> V3 is a JAN GE 12AX7WA:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And V4 is a Sylvania Grey Plate:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, sorry for the long post, but this is one kick-ass combination in the DSL40c. I haven't have a lot of time to test this yet, but initially I can confirm this is an awesome setup. What really sold me was the bit of feedback on OD1 I got at a low volume level, a cool sound I always needed to crank it to obtain. Next post is close-ups of the Marshall-branded tubes I removed...


All I can say is WOW !!!! Man you are in tone heaven !!!!!


----------



## Ye Auld

Ye Auld said:


> All I can say is WOW !!!! Man you are in tone heaven !!!!!


All I got now is a 12AX7 National some vintage RCA 7025, some Mullards 12AX7 Sovtek reissue, 1 Tung sol reissue, 1 JJ 12AX7 Gold pins, and a vintege Silvanya 12AT7 grey plates, any ideas which ones to use and what spots ????


----------



## Oldpunk

That's what rolling is for. Find the flavor YOU like.


----------



## SteelLucky

Wow, this is a great thread. I bought a DSL40C last year. It was a 2013 build but still brand new in box as I cut the original tape myself. Was happy with for the first week. Then I finally cranked it up after feeling I spent enough time freeing up the speaker with clean sounds. Harsh distortion, brittle highs and tubby lows. Being audio file type and also working sound systems in my younger days I started with tubes. Stock were all Red label Marshall so for V1 I decided to go dark and warm with NOS RFT, V2,3,4 are Mesa SPAx7. Much better distortions. Happy again. A friend was over playing my strat through it. Tubby bass, harsh treble, harsh high mids. My ear is telling me that speaker has to go. Internet is saying creamback, but my YouTube checking says no, no to v30 also. Keep liking the Lynchback but only 8ohms. One speaker seems ok is v-type. Well the V-type is in now and finals biased at 36mv. Broke speaker in for an hour playing cleans with strat slowly cranking volume. Plugged in my PRS on lead 1 with all knobs to 5. Walked to the other side of the room and hit it. Massive brilliant brassy distortion and fully heart warming hot rodded Marshall sound. I had a SEG with how good this amp sounds now. Marshall did this amp a disservice by using the 70/80.


----------



## ken361

Whats wrong with 8 ohms? I use it


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

ken361 said:


> Whats wrong with 8 ohms? I use it



Me too Ken. I have an 8 ohm WGS Retro 30. Kick ass speaker.


----------



## Micky

SteelLucky said:


> Wow, this is a great thread. I bought a DSL40C last year. It was a 2013 build but still brand new in box as I cut the original tape myself. Was happy with for the first week. Then I finally cranked it up after feeling I spent enough time freeing up the speaker with clean sounds. Harsh distortion, brittle highs and tubby lows. Being audio file type and also working sound systems in my younger days I started with tubes. Stock were all Red label Marshall so for V1 I decided to go dark and warm with NOS RFT, V2,3,4 are Mesa SPAx7. Much better distortions. Happy again. A friend was over playing my strat through it. Tubby bass, harsh treble, harsh high mids. My ear is telling me that speaker has to go. Internet is saying creamback, but my YouTube checking says no, no to v30 also. Keep liking the Lynchback but only 8ohms. One speaker seems ok is v-type. Well the V-type is in now and finals biased at 36mv. Broke speaker in for an hour playing cleans with strat slowly cranking volume. Plugged in my PRS on lead 1 with all knobs to 5. Walked to the other side of the room and hit it. Massive brilliant brassy distortion and fully heart warming hot rodded Marshall sound. I had a SEG with how good this amp sounds now. Marshall did this amp a disservice by using the 70/80.


I agree, the Seventy/80 is not the best choiuce for this amp.
However, in a closed back 2X12, I thought this particular speaker sounded outstanding. The closed back seemed to add natural bass and tame the treble. I am seriouslty thinking of picking up a MX212 down the road...

And 8-ohms works well, I ran a Texas Heat at 8-ohms for a LONG time and I loved it. Only thing is, you have a tough time adding a cab unless it is 16-ohm, as there is no 4-ohm option in this amp to add another 8-ohm cab in conjunction with the built-in if you are running an 8-om there...


----------



## SteelLucky

I wanted to be able to add a cabinet easily otherwise I would have went with the 8 ohm Lynchback. Now I just need to convince the wife I need a DSL5C to save my hearing.


----------



## Ye Auld

And a lot of fenders


MarshallDog said:


> I bought the tube covers and installed them on all the preamp tubes and I use the tube dampeners on the power tubes and have never had an issue...


That's a great advice, I think I have some tube covers somewhere


----------



## Ye Auld

guitarman3001 said:


> Well, in the hour or so that I've had it and that it has been problem free after I whacked the reverb into shape, I've tried my regular pedalboard which is currently a Mad Professor Deep Blue clone, a TC Spark, an Xotic SL, a TS clone, a comp, and an autowah.
> 
> So far what I've got is with the SL Drive on the channel 1 set to crunch mode but with the gain low, I get a very classic plexi sound, which is what the SL is supposed to do. And on Ch1, the lower the gain, the brighter it is so using it that way I can more or less balance the EQ between Ch1 and Ch2.
> 
> I put a Sovtek 5751 in V1 and it sounds a little better than the stock tube and is also lower gain so I can turn up the gain on Ch2 a little higher, which also helps balance the EQ between both channels.
> 
> So far so good. Between the clean channel on crunch mode with the gain set low, the clean channel with the Xotic SL, and then CH2, I have a nice clean tone, a mid gain plexi tone, and a hot rodded JCM800 type of tone. That's basically the three tones I was hoping to get out of this amp.
> 
> Oh, and of course the TS on CH1 for an SRV type of tone.
> 
> I have the TC Spark set to mid boost mode and it works great for leads on Ch2. Both the Spark and the delay are in the FX loop which so far seems to be working just fine.
> 
> Hopefully the reverb doesn't start acting up again.
> 
> And I do plan on changing out the speaker. I don't like the 70/80 but I knew that coming into it. I've never liked that speaker.
> 
> So, any suggestions? I want to get something from WGS. Something to tame the highs and smooth it out a little bit.


Well, in the hour or so that I've had it and that it has been problem free after I whacked the reverb into shape HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA that was funny as shi ***** at least to me HAHAHA HAHA HA HAHAHA !!!!


----------



## ken361

A little diddy I recorded at bedroom level and vocal mic
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


----------



## Natedog_37

Nice. What tubes? and placement of the tubes? Love the sound.


----------



## ken361

Natedog_37 said:


> Nice. What tubes? and placement of the tubes? Love the sound.


Tungsol in the v1,v2 Amperex,v3,v4 Baldwin Slyvania. EH power tubes which sound very similar to stock but a little more bass. Used a V pick Ultra light traditional very crucial for the softer pick attack on the red channel. Warehouse british lead speaker


----------



## Ye Auld

DSMer said:


> I'm not very fond of the Marshall branded Shuguangs that come with the amp due to its scooped mids. Don't get me wrong..they're pretty good sounding tubes (great tubes for metal IMHO) but since I'm a classic rock player I very much love the sweet midrange I get from SED Winged =C= EL34's.
> 
> V1 - Tung-Sol 12AX7
> V2 - Tung-Sol 12AX7
> V3 - ECC83 (Chinese, not stock JJ ECC83)
> V4 - SOVTEK 12AX7LPS
> 
> V3 is the tone stack and cathode follower tube. Russian 12AX7's won't last here.


Hey DSMer, the Tung Sols you have on V1 and V2 are the the new russians reissues ??? I'm asking because I have some, thanks


----------



## Ye Auld

caiokiss said:


> The problem is that I won't have the chance to try different ones. Tubes are expensive and hard to find here in my country, but I'm goinig to USA in a month, so I'll take the opportunity to buy the tubes and speaker there (celestion speakers are just impossible to find here).
> 
> So, it would have to be something simple and easy to find, like something that I could find in a guitarcenter store... I can find current production Mullard and JJ in a Guitarcenter, right?


Hey caiokiss I'm from Mexico and I have been visiting old electrnics shops here in Mexico and I was able to find some vintage RCA 7025s some general electric 12Ax7s, 1 National 12ax7, 1 Silvanya 12AT7 and 4 EL34s brown base that are label TESLA on the glass ( I have no idea if those are any good ), but you should try the same and start visiting old electronics shops down there and brazil and maybe you can find some cool tubes, by the way I'm a guitar tech and the other day I found a stock of tropical fish capacitors .033 made in Brazil and those caps sound amaizing on Les Pauls !!!! I need to make time to visit more shops to see what else I can find tube wise


----------



## stringer

Anybody know if these tubes are compatible with the Marshall DSL40c..
I ve just bought one ....havent even turned it on yet 
but i found some tubes from my band days and wondered 
if some of these were anygood to roll in the DSL

12AX7LPS Sovtek 3ea
12 AZX7 EH electrix harmonix 3 ea
ECC 83 M 2 ea maybe from old JCM 900 amp dont remember
J/J ECC83S 2ea
J/J EL 34 1 ea
EL84 /GBQ5 Sovtek 2 ea


----------



## Micky

Yes they all are, please remember to reset the bias when changing power tubes.


----------



## stringer

any recommendations as to valve location to try these


----------



## SteelLucky

Ye Auld said:


> ?...by the way I'm a guitar tech and the other day I found a stock of tropical fish capacitors .033 made in Brazil and those caps sound amaizing on Les Pauls !!!



I haven't seen those in years. The last time a found a set to restore a pedal was in a Radio Shack.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

stringer said:


> Anybody know if these tubes are compatible with the Marshall DSL40c..
> I ve just bought one ....havent even turned it on yet
> but i found some tubes from my band days and wondered
> if some of these were anygood to roll in the DSL
> 
> 12AX7LPS Sovtek 3ea
> 12 AZX7 EH electrix harmonix 3 ea
> ECC 83 M 2 ea maybe from old JCM 900 amp dont remember
> J/J ECC83S 2ea
> J/J EL 34 1 ea
> You would need to change 2 of these at once.
> 
> EL84 /GBQ5 Sovtek 2 ea


J/J EL 34 1 ea
You would need to change 2 of these at once.

EL84 /GBQ5 Sovtek 2 ea
No these are not.

You will have to try the pre tubes in different spots and see. It's all personal taste.


----------



## Ye Auld

SteelLucky said:


> I haven't seen those in years. The last time a found a set to restore a pedal was in a Radio Shack.


Yes those little caps sounds really really good on Les Pauls


----------



## G the wildman

Hi Guys,

You may recall that I have upgraded my finals. I am now set on the 65 creamback upgrade. Should I do this after rolling my pre amp tubes or before.

I am thinking the speaker may negate the need to roll tubes at this stage.

Please advise and thanks as always.

G


----------



## Woods

^Check out the ET-65 first; it's several 20's less, and it just might save your life...


----------



## luis henrique

HELLO, GOOD afternoon !, I own a head marshall dsl 100h, made this mod c19, liked the result, more I wanted to test in place of cap470 removed a value 100pf, most do not know how many volts would be correct. 50V or 63? Anyone know infromar the correct voltage value? excuse the bad English


----------



## luis henrique

Micky said:


> To remove the C19 cap makes all the difference in the world!
> The OD2 mode on the 2nd channel was pretty much unusable for me as it came from the factory. It may be fine for some as it is stock, but I can only imagine extreme metal being played on hi-gain pointy guitars by angry young punks. (no disrespect) Lots of gain is putting it mildly...
> 
> It is a pretty easy mod, I did it without removing the main PC board. Here is a photo:
> 
> 
> 
> capsis
> 
> I basically just touched a lo-powered soldering pencil (33 watts) to one leg and pried up the cap. It will be easy to return it to stock if needed. Here is another photo:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The OD2 mode on the Ultra Gain channel is now my go-to mode for a boost even though I don't play lead. It has a ballsy feel to it now rather than a fizzy buzz.


----------



## luis henrique

caps c19 470 pf is 50 our 63 volts?


----------



## Micky

luis henrique said:


> caps c19 470 pf is 50 our 63 volts?


They are 100V.


----------



## Micky

G the wildman said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> You may recall that I have upgraded my finals. I am now set on the 65 creamback upgrade. Should I do this after rolling my pre amp tubes or before.
> 
> I am thinking the speaker may negate the need to roll tubes at this stage.
> 
> Please advise and thanks as always.
> 
> G


Try a different speaker first. Unless of course, you already have extra tubes to roll...


----------



## luis henrique

[QUOTE = "Micky, post: 1489313, membro: 12873"]. Eles são 100V [/ QUOTE]
os originais são de cerâmica, de camadas múltiplas ou mica prata?? obrigado


----------



## Micky

luis henrique said:


> [QUOTE = "Micky, post: 1489313, membro: 12873"]. Eles são 100V [/ QUOTE]
> os originais são de cerâmica, de camadas múltiplas ou mica prata?? obrigado



Não importa , mica mergulhado foi instalado no meu.


----------



## luis henrique

Micky said:


> Não importa , mica mergulhado foi instalado no meu.


ok friend, thanks for the help and valuable information, I bought this photo cap 100pf and 100volts should serve, bought tb some new valves for experiences here, tesla long board jj 803 gold pine some sun tung, I will do some tests in various positions since that marshall is well sencivel the valves changes preamp, my speakers are Celestion creamback g121h 75 and V-type, excellent combination with the head dsl100h


----------



## SlyStrat

Just sold my Cream DSL40C and ordered the Mini Jubilee to replace it.


----------



## IRG

So for those that have been following my mini saga on the rattle noise, turns out all along it was a bad set of power tubes. Doh! The original tubes are back in the amp, and now I have to figure out which set of power tubes to get next. I got these from Doug's tubes, and have emailed him about a refund/exchange. THey literally have probably under 20-30 hours on them, more often on the 20w setting than the 40w (would that cause them to wear out faster? I wouldn't think so). If Doug takes them back, which set which you get next? http://www.dougstubes.com/power-tubes/el34-kt77-6ca7.html

I'm not spending a ton here though. I have to say I miss this amp a lot, going back to a small 15w Fender combo hasn't been that easy, in fact I find myself not playing much at all.

I should add, the power tubes I replaced the original ones (which also went somewhat microphonic quickly) were the Ruby EL34BSTR. Not sure I heard much improvement, would rather have longevity here.


----------



## ken361

Hmm my second set was EH and got a hum right when got 3 months in! bought another set from my dealer for 30.00 got a discount with a price match. I would of got mullards but he was out and wanted to see if the hum was a tube issue and it was! I think the amps vibrations cause the issues possible when playing loud. I have 2 months on my new set and a lower bias so will see how these hold up. I read that the chinese tubes might be best because they have a thicker glass and that. AKA Rubys, Mullards ect


----------



## IRG

ken361 said:


> Hmm my second set was EH and got a hum right when got 3 months in! bought another set from my dealer for 30.00 got a discount with a price match. I would of got mullards but he was out and wanted to see if the hum was a tube issue and it was! I think the amps vibrations cause the issues possible when playing loud. I have 2 months on my new set and a lower bias so will see how these hold up. I read that the chinese tubes might be best because they have a thicker glass and that. AKA Rubys, Mullards ect



Well mine are the Ruby's and they went bad I think almost from the start. Sigh. Kinda makes me want a head now, to separate it from the speaker. I can see it being an issue, but have a Vox and a couple of Fender combos, it hasn't been an issue before. Could just be bad luck too.


----------



## IRG

I was thinking maybe the JJEL34L - with 20% more headroom. Might work well too if I'm after less gain (especially on red channel)?


----------



## ken361

My stock tubes lasted 8 months and I ran it hard on the weekend so i got my time use on it


----------



## Micky

IRG said:


> If Doug takes them back, which set which you get next?


Svetlanas or TAD's.


----------



## ken361

The Rubys I read they have a 6 month warranty, pretty sure the same thing as Tad there the same tubes


----------



## IRG

ken361 said:


> The Rubys I read they have a 6 month warranty, pretty sure the same thing as Tad there the same tubes



Yep, this is what I have/had. Just a bad set I guess. Will likely get the same set for replacement.


----------



## rlowe

IRG said:


> I was thinking maybe the JJEL34L - with 20% more headroom. Might work well too if I'm after less gain (especially on red channel)?


 The JJE34L not JJEL34's are a more punchy, aggressive tube. I have had mine in for aprx. 4 months and they still cook good. Good luck on your return!


----------



## rlowe

rlowe said:


> The JJE34L not JJEL34's are a more punchy, aggressive tube. I have had mine in for aprx. 4 months and they still cook good. Good luck on your return!


Be sure to tell them what amp the tubes are to be used in!


----------



## manofsteel2397

So I have been getting this sqwack when I play or pinging sound especially when I mute the low e , thought something was wrong with the amp, turns out the pick up was to high and my strings were touching it.......don't know how long it has been like that. Dogh!!!!! Any way now that I lowered the pick up on my Les Paul pure tonal bliss. I can actually use second red channel now


----------



## Dan Ross

Micky said:


> Index to this thread here:
> 
> Side Handle Photos: The Official Marshall DSL40c Information Thread
> Gut Shot Photos: The Official Marshall DSL40c Information Thread
> C19 Cap Mod Photos: The Official Marshall DSL40c Information Thread
> 
> Feel free to post your mods & other DSL40c related content here.
> This thread is for others to reference when looking for vital info.
> 
> Many of these posts should be relavent to the DSL100h as well as the DSL15, as all the newer DSL amps now share many common features & components. For example, the DSL100h uses the same chassis and internal board and components of the DSL40c, except it has 2 more output tubes as well as the extra related components.
> 
> I will start with a couple of photos in this thread, and add more photos in other posts as I don't want each post to be too 'pic-heavy'. If anyone has any requests for photos of specific components or areas of the 40c please let me know and I will shoot them next time I pull the chassis from the case.
> 
> I would also like to link all the other DSL40c threads here, as they contain some great posts as well as a lot of good information. Feel free to add whatever you want as long as it is related.
> 
> First I would like to state that I am NOT a great guitar player, and I WON'T be posting any clips. Although I used to play in a cover band back in the late '70s, my skill has not kept up with the times. Others are much more talented here and I am sure there will be a few to offer some demos. What I WILL post here is some relavent info, and a bunch of photos. So here goes.
> 
> The DSL40c is Marshalls newest DSL, along with the DSL100h head version and the DSL15h and DSL15c. These amps are made in Vietnam. Before you start to poo-poo this new line for being made overseas, rest assured these are built to Marshalls specifications. In my opinion, they are made as well, if not better than anything made in the UK or even in the USA. The boards inside appear to be wave-soldered hi-quality PC boards, and the components are well-spaced and symmetric.
> 
> The case appears to be HDF, not MDF. It seems much tougher and harder than MDF, although it is still not birch ply. Personally I don't think it matters much, I have seen ply crushed as easily as anything else, but the true test will be over time. I got a good look when I cut the sides of the case open for some new handles.
> 
> Yes, I have already drilled and cut the case, one of the first mods so far. Many of you wil notice this amp doesn't have any side handles, and because I am getting a bit older (and a bit wiser as well) I felt I needed to add some decent metal handles. It will allow for two people to carry the amp as well as allow easier placing of the amp on top of another cab. With the speaker replacement, this amp now weighs 55 pounds, and I feel that is a bit much for the top handle alone.
> 
> Here is a photo of the installed handles:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You need to measure VERY carefully, as one might have a tendency to want to mount the handles high, near the top. The particular metal handles I uses have a bit of depth to them, I mounted them so the PT and OT clear them by about 1/4 inch. I can provide dimensions if anyone needs them.
> 
> Gut shots and other info to follow...


----------



## Dan Ross

Hey...cool idea...I am another aging guy with a bad back that needs those handles...Anyway of getting those measurements that you did to save me some time? Also, if you are happy with those handles can you post a link to the ones you purchased?? Many thanks in advance!


----------



## G the wildman

Hi Guys

I fitted my 65 creamback today and played for a couple of hours. The improvement to the flubber is quite phenomenal. Metal sounds great and the clean channel is so warm. Well woth the £. 

Just a little ringing to deal with now on the tubes. But plenty of historical advice in thread or that.

Thanks to all.

Wildman


----------



## SteelLucky

SlyStrat said:


> Just sold my Cream DSL40C and ordered the Mini Jubilee to replace it.



My DSL40C arrived right before the Mini J was announced. I so wanted to return it and then wait but after the speaker and preamp tube swaps I'm happy. I use it a lot at home and would have loved the 20 and 5 watt setting but couldn't justify the price difference.


----------



## Micky

Dan Ross said:


> Hey...cool idea...I am another aging guy with a bad back that needs those handles...Anyway of getting those measurements that you did to save me some time? Also, if you are happy with those handles can you post a link to the ones you purchased?? Many thanks in advance!


OK, here it is for everyone...
*DSL40c Handle Info:*

Handles are Penn-Elcom H1024 PA Cab Handles
Parts-Express # 262-318
Dimensions are approx 6.5" X 8.75"

You need a hole 4.5" X 7.0"
5.5 inches from top
2.75 inches from front & back
7 inches from bottom

Also - You need to be sensitive about replacement transformers, they may require more room from the top...

All measurements in inches (sorry to the Canadians & euro people...)


----------



## Duffy49

Micky said:


> OK, here it is for everyone...
> *DSL40c Handle Info:*
> 
> Handles are Penn-Elcom H1024 PA Cab Handles
> Parts-Express # 262-318
> Dimensions are approx 6.5" X 8.75"
> 
> You need a hole 4.5" X 7.0"
> 5.5 inches from top
> 2.75 inches from front & back
> 7 inches from bottom
> 
> Also - You need to be sensitive about replacement transformers, they may require more room from the top...
> 
> All measurements in inches (sorry to the Canadians & euro people...)




Nice job Micky.

Those handles look really useful.


----------



## Micky

Duffy49 said:


> Nice job Micky.
> 
> Those handles look really useful.


I frequently stack my DSL40c on top of an external cab, and with the way this thing weighs, it is crucial to have side handles...


----------



## jchrisf

Does the DSL40c produce much thump at bedroom levels?


----------



## Duffy49

Micky said:


> I frequently stack my DSL40c on top of an external cab, and with the way this thing weighs, it is crucial to have side handles...




I know too well this truth.

I slipped on the stairs, about three steps up, on a pile of gig bags. Went soaring to the floor, head down. Broke my fall by putting my arms out, in 'push up' position. Shock. Messed up my left shoulder, went to ER and will see Ortho surgeon in a few days. This hurts.

I hope this turns out ok, so I will even be able to lift a two handle amp or cab. Not now for sure. Oww.


----------



## Duffy49

jchrisf said:


> Does the DSL40c produce much thump at bedroom levels?




The more you crank it the better it gets, naturally. But it does as well as my Blackstar HT5-RH, head and cab with twin Swamp Thang's.


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

Duffy49 said:


> I know too well this truth.
> 
> I slipped on the stairs, about there steps up, on a pile of gig bags. Went soaring to the floor, head down. Broke my fall by putting my arms out, in 'push up' position. Shock. Messed up my left shoulder, went to ER and will see Ortho surgeon in a few days. This hurts.
> 
> I hope this turns out ok, so I will even be able to lift a two handle amp or cab. Not now for sure. Oww.



Ouch is right! Here's hoping that everything turns out ok at the surgeons office. Take care Duffy.


----------



## Duffy49

I just started thinking about that guitar strap going over my left shoulder. . . . 

It's a good thing I play sitting or laying back most of the time.


----------



## Duffy49

Regular Dr. today. Take two aspirins??


----------



## ken361

Red 1 gain at 5 volume at 4 crunch gain at 7 volume at 6+


----------



## G the wildman

UPDATE on my DSL 40c

I Now have good El34s (tads) and creamback speaker. My reverb has started working, so much so that I have to keep it at a low to mid setting on all,4 channels.

I rolled some good quality preamp tubes in V1 and V2 a tad and a jj. But this muffled the sound so I replaced the stock tubes. All in all I can get most of the tones that I require.


----------



## G the wildman

DSL40c v Fender Mustang 3

I have been playing my DSL for about 7 weeks now and I am pretty happy with it, and have said before that I can hear the quality that a tube amp provides over a solid state amp. But today I spent a few minutes playing with my Mustang and I have to say that it is difficult to tell the difference between the two amps on certain settings.

So far I have spent £650.00 to £700.00 on my DSL and £200.00 on my Mustang. Makes one think!

If I could only keep only one it would be the DSL because it is pure and of course this is a hobby and one has to experiment to gain knowledge and experience.

I have only been playing for 13 months, perhaps the difference between these amps will become more discernible as I improve as a player.

I certainly won't be doing any more mods on the DSL for quite some time.


----------



## rlowe

I have been using JJ power tubes in my DSL 40c for some time now with decent results. Recently I was looking at the TAD power tubes and have heard good reviews on them. Has anyone used any of the TAD preamp tubes and if they have with what results?


----------



## ken361

Just rebranded tubes look into old stock ,smoother tones


----------



## rlowe

ken361 said:


> Just rebranded tubes look into old stock ,smoother tones


Yes, I will do some more reading concerning these TAD preamp tubes. I have Doug's preamp tube mixed set as he recommended for Marshall DSL 40 and quite frankly they are good tubes.


----------



## BanditPanda

I just watched two videos. one by the well known Johan Segeborn titled 
*Preamp Vs Power Tube Distortion*
and another titled The Breaking Point" where pre meets power. No doubt I will have to get an attenuator but on the Classic Gain clean setting can you guys give me an idea where that " breaking point" is, that is where the DSL 40C opens up or " blooms" as they might say.


----------



## G the wildman

rlowe said:


> I have been using JJ power tubes in my DSL 40c for some time now with decent results. Recently I was looking at the TAD power tubes and have heard good reviews on them. Has anyone used any of the TAD preamp tubes and if they have with what results?


 I just tried a good quality tad 7025 in V1 it muffled the sound. I put a jj in V2. No change. The tube is identitcle in appearance to to stock tubes.


----------



## rlowe

G the wildman said:


> DSL40c v Fender Mustang 3
> 
> I have been playing my DSL for about 7 weeks now and I am pretty happy with it, and have said before that I can hear the quality that a tube amp provides over a solid state amp. But today I spent a few minutes playing with my Mustang and I have to say that it is difficult to tell the difference between the two amps on certain settings.
> 
> So far I have spent £650.00 to £700.00 on my DSL and £200.00 on my Mustang. Makes one think!
> 
> If I could only keep only one it would be the DSL because it is pure and of course this is a hobby and one has to experiment to gain knowledge and experience.
> 
> I have only been playing for 13 months, perhaps the difference between these amps will become more discernible as I improve as a player.
> 
> I certainly won't be doing any more mods on the DSL for quite some time.


I have owned the DSL 40c for a little over a year and with the speaker breaking in, tube changes, no mods and this amp sounds decent. (I will be changing the speaker possibly to a Celestion V30 soon). Adding a few select pedals to this amp only enhances it's sound. I own a Fender Mustang I v2 and it does have some points??, but rarely play it except for overnight practice. The Mustang I sounds a little thin and harsh comparatively IMO, but a Mustang III which I have compared to the DSL 100 at an undisclosed guitar store also has some points??, but with overall integrity of sound quality as you should hear with time, I will choose the Marshall tube amp.


----------



## rlowe

rlowe said:


> I have owned the DSL 40c for a little over a year and with the speaker breaking in, tube changes, no mods and this amp sounds decent. (I will be changing the speaker possibly to a Celestion V30 soon). Adding a few select pedals to this amp only enhances it's sound. I own a Fender Mustang I v2 and it does have some points??, but rarely play it except for overnight practice. The Mustang I sounds a little thin and harsh comparatively IMO, but a Mustang III which I have compared to the DSL 100 at an undisclosed guitar store also has some points??, but with overall integrity of sound quality as you should hear with time, I will choose the Marshall tube amp.


 Fender does make good amps IMHO Tube amps that is!


----------



## ken361

Something told me to plug in the stock speaker cable again, I like it better the Planet Waves after market gold tipped one was brighter on the top end and mids. I liked it better when it was in my old blues deluxe then the stock one.Now that my amp was biased better the stock sound right this time lol it is shorter by a couple inches. Who knows better to leave things alone sometimes. Going to have to record loud again


----------



## G the wildman

Yup I think the DSL is a decent amp. It does not have the tone that I am after. But I looked at a JMV forum and people are just as split over that.

I took my LP to a music store this week and asked the tech to play it for me on a dsl. Amazing - no buzz and a nice warm crunch. I deduce it is just a case of setup and maybe a pedal or two.


----------



## luis henrique

hello friend, I'll do the mod choke on my dsl 100h, more here in Brazil not with the classic tone choke, most have some guys that manufacture filter choke with high quality tb, my question is, I can put a choke filter with these especifficaçes? CH3300 3HY 300mA, 300mA that is done here, would be enough? sorry so many doubt an apprentice


----------



## Micky

luis henrique said:


> hello friend, I'll do the mod choke on my dsl 100h, more here in Brazil not with the classic tone choke, most have some guys that manufacture filter choke with high quality tb, my question is, I can put a choke filter with these especifficaçes? CH3300 3HY 300mA, 300mA that is done here, would be enough? sorry so many doubt an apprentice


What would be the internal resistance in ohms?
Other than that, it looks ok...


----------



## luis henrique

Micky said:


> What would be the internal resistance in ohms?
> Other than that, it looks ok...


resistance is 200 ohms


----------



## Micky

luis henrique said:


> resistance is 200 ohms


Yes that should be fine. Good luck.
Who is the manufacturer of the choke? Model #?


----------



## luis henrique

[QUOI had an idea that I think is a little better, have a friend transformers manufacturer engineer here in Brazil, I went to him Specifications ClassicTone 3H Choke he me that he can clone perfectly the model in all the details, so I think I will do this I will use this here so that a clone http://www.classictone.net/40-18058.pdfTE="Micky, post: 1492268, member: 12873"]Yes that should be fine. Good luck.
Who is the manufacturer of the choke? Model #?[/QUOTE]


----------



## luis henrique

luis henrique said:


> [QUOI had an idea that I think is a little better, have a friend transformers manufacturer engineer here in Brazil, I went to him Specifications ClassicTone 3H Choke he me that he can clone perfectly the model in all the details, so I think I will do this I will use this here so that a clone http://www.classictone.net/40-18058.pdfTE="Micky, post: 1492268, member: 12873"]Yes that should be fine. Good luck.
> Who is the manufacturer of the choke? Model #?


[/QUOTE]
this one is the manufacturer, my friend http://schatz.eng.br/


----------



## Bownse

luis henrique said:


> resistance is 200 ohms



I thought it was "futile".

(ba dump bump!)


----------



## Micky

Bownse said:


> I thought it was "futile".
> 
> (ba dump bump!)


Don't give up your day job...


----------



## TheCrunge

I bought a single button foot switch so as to control my green/red channel switching on my pedal board. I made an extension wire with one end being a stereo jack and the other a mono. So I only have to tip connected (or else the reverb gets turned off). 
Anyways, when I connect my cable to the pedal board (which is then connected to my single button foot switch) I get a nasty hum. I don't get the hum with the original Marshall foot switch. It's a 2 conductor wire just like the original. Why would it hum?


----------



## Bownse

Unshielded wire, I assume? If it's not looped into a coil (creating an induction), then try wrapping it in foil. If it works, then consider swapping out the wire with sheilded wire like coax.


----------



## TheCrunge

Bownse said:


> Unshielded wire, I assume? If it's not looped into a coil (creating an induction), then try wrapping it in foil. If it works, then consider swapping out the wire with sheilded wire like coax.



It is not shielded. Just like the original foot switch cable. It is somewhat twisted however. Not twisted like CAT5


----------



## Micky

TheCrunge said:


> I bought a single button foot switch so as to control my green/red channel switching on my pedal board. I made an extension wire with one end being a stereo jack and the other a mono. So I only have to tip connected (or else the reverb gets turned off).
> Anyways, when I connect my cable to the pedal board (which is then connected to my single button foot switch) I get a nasty hum. I don't get the hum with the original Marshall foot switch. It's a 2 conductor wire just like the original. Why would it hum?


The original is a 3-conductor wire.
Also, you may have some wires reversed...


----------



## TheCrunge

Micky said:


> The original is a 3-conductor wire.
> Also, you may have some wires reversed...



Yes I know it's a 3 conductor wire. I'm only using it for the channel switching not the reverb so i only need 2 of the conductors. And They are not reversed. I am sure. It's just strange that this cable will cause the amp to hum when it's not in the signal chain.


----------



## Micky

TheCrunge said:


> Yes I know it's a 3 conductor wire. I'm only using it for the channel switching not the reverb so i only need 2 of the conductors. And They are not reversed. I am sure. It's just strange that this cable will cause the amp to hum when it's not in the signal chain.


Does it do it plugged directly into the amp?
If not, it is whatever you are plugging it into near the pedals.


----------



## TheCrunge

Micky said:


> Does it do it plugged directly into the amp?
> If not, it is whatever you are plugging it into near the pedals.



Yes it has hum when plugged directly into the amp.


----------



## Bownse

Floating ground maybe?


----------



## TheCrunge

I figured out my foot switch cable humming issue. I have a Behringer PB600 pedal board and was using one of the 1/4 jacks on it to plug in the switch, then a long jumper to the back of the amp. Well I disconnected my pedals from the jack next to it and the hum went away. So it must be some ground issue.


----------



## BanditPanda

I know this is going to sound incredibly ignorant and stupid but anyway.... on the DSL40C is the volume knob the Master and the Gain knob the Pre Amp?
The gain /distortion levels come from the Gain knob and is that distortion coming from the Preamp?
In order to drive to power tubes you need to increase using the volume knob ?


----------



## Micky

BanditPanda said:


> I know this is going to sound incredibly ignorant and stupid but anyway.... on the DSL40C is the volume knob the Master and the Gain knob the Pre Amp?
> The gain /distortion levels come from the Gain knob and is that distortion coming from the Preamp?
> In order to drive to power tubes you need to increase using the volume knob ?



Basically, yes.

In the case of the DSL40c, the volume knobs are the Master Volumes for each channel independently.

A TRUE Master Volume would only be 1 knob.


----------



## BanditPanda

Thank you Micky


----------



## ken361

Dudes how does this sound I re EQ'd it and set the amp on a lean against a table so I can really hear it


----------



## djpj1977

Hey all, I'm new to the forum. Here looking for advice on some problems I've had with my 40C.
I've posted in the repair section http://www.marshallforum.com/index.php?threads/problems-continue-with-dsl-40c.89576/.
or is it better to post here? Thanks!


----------



## WasStoNed

What were your dial settings on that? Are you feeding it with anything or just using the channels?

Sounds gooooooood though



ken361 said:


> Dudes how does this sound I re EQ'd it and set the amp on a lean against a table so I can really hear it


----------



## ken361

The setting trb 3 mids 5+ bass 6 pres 5 res 1,gain5 its just going into a delay a little.


----------



## G the wildman

ken361 said:


> Dudes how does this sound I re EQ'd it and set the amp on a lean against a table so I can really hear it


----------



## SlyStrat

Sold mine and bought a Fender '68 Custom Vibrolux. With my Weehbo JCM Drive it blows the DSL away in TONE.


----------



## G the wildman

Hi Ken,

Sounds real cool. Interestingly I tried leaning my amp back in a corner. I could not believe the sound difference. So I have ordered a tilting amp stand. 

What delay pedal are you using.

G


----------



## ken361

G the wildman said:


> Hi Ken,
> 
> Sounds real cool. Interestingly I tried leaning my amp back in a corner. I could not believe the sound difference. So I have ordered a tilting amp stand.
> 
> What delay pedal are you using.
> 
> G


Caline Time Space delay, got it on a trade there very cheap in price but sound excellent in the loop. You Cant really hear that much in the video its set low. Warm sounding delay good for lead work and riffs like VH stuff. I owned some pretty pricey ones in the past but this is pretty dam good. Love to try a greenback type speaker when i ever get the funds


----------



## ken361

SlyStrat said:


> Sold mine and bought a Fender '68 Custom Vibrolux. With my Weehbo JCM Drive it blows the DSL away in TONE.


I had the 68 twin with the bogner pedals, I prefer the Marshall for Marshall tones! Deluxe reverb took pedals better for warmth. The twin and the Vibro sounded similar.


----------



## ken361

G the wildman said:


> Hi Ken,
> 
> Sounds real cool. Interestingly I tried leaning my amp back in a corner. I could not believe the sound difference. So I have ordered a tilting amp stand.
> 
> What delay pedal are you using.
> 
> G


what stand did you order? did you re EQ the amp? more brighter when the amps pointed right at ya


----------



## luis henrique

Friends, here I am, I am disappointed, I changed the cap c19 by a 100pf x100v, the amplifier worked well for 5 minutes, until one dasvalvulas of power are shorted! I do not know if I did something wrong, it is something that simple? I will post a picture of the capacitor put, good bought a new quartet jj tesla to see if it is only the Chinese EL34 tubes the problem, I hope to count on the help guys


----------



## Bownse

Re: Amp Stand ($20)

*Musician's Gear Deluxe Amp Stand Black*

http://www.amazon.com/Musicians-Gea...&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00


----------



## G the wildman

ken361 said:


> what stand did you order? did you re EQ the amp? more brighter when the amps pointed right at ya


 I have ordered a Gator combo stand. 

No I did not re EQ the amp.


----------



## ken361

Thought the amp sounded good at my girls condo with the new settings with the amp on the carpeted floor.Very warm but dynamic red channel,crunch was great also. Got the inspired settings from a video on you tube with a guy playing the 100H with a SG,a southern dude.Very acdc sounding.


----------



## ken361

luis henrique said:


> Friends, here I am, I am disappointed, I changed the cap c19 by a 100pf x100v, the amplifier worked well for 5 minutes, until one dasvalvulas of power are shorted! I do not know if I did something wrong, it is something that simple? I will post a picture of the capacitor put, good bought a new quartet jj tesla to see if it is only the Chinese EL34 tubes the problem, I hope to count on the help guys


I'm sure Micky could help!


----------



## ken361

G the wildman said:


> I have ordered a Gator combo stand.
> 
> No I did not re EQ the amp.


Let us know how it works


----------



## Micky

Bownse said:


> Re: Amp Stand ($20)
> 
> *Musician's Gear Deluxe Amp Stand Black*
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Musicians-Gea...&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00


I have one of these and it works great!


----------



## Micky

luis henrique said:


> Friends, here I am, I am disappointed, I changed the cap c19 by a 100pf x100v, the amplifier worked well for 5 minutes, until one dasvalvulas of power are shorted! I do not know if I did something wrong, it is something that simple? I will post a picture of the capacitor put, good bought a new quartet jj tesla to see if it is only the Chinese EL34 tubes the problem, I hope to count on the help guys


Most likely you shorted something else out.
Change the cap back and see if it fixes it.


----------



## Jaymz E

Even Marshall calls Micky when they need to troubleshoot a DSL 40c.


----------



## BanditPanda

SlyStrat said:


> Sold mine and bought a Fender '68 Custom Vibrolux. With my Weehbo JCM Drive it blows the DSL away in TONE.



You just spent 500 $ more than the DSL cost you plus 300 $ more for the Weebho, lost your effects loop and your variable W output. But whatever floats your boat. I'm sure there's a Fender Forum out there for you.


----------



## luis henrique

And I already did the other way! Sold a deluxe fender reverb68 Silverface, and bought a dsl 100h, like hard rock, blues rock and valves timbre distorting, fender only with pedals and tb had not loop out, what I disliked, I prefer 10x my dsl


----------



## G the wildman

IMHO. Once the speaker is changed and tubes rolled/upgraded. Leave all else as stock and find settings that you like. Maybe add a pedal or three.


----------



## SlyStrat

Great tone is worth the money to me. The DSL is ok, but there's better.


----------



## luis henrique

friends,two of my Chinese EL34 remained good yet, What do I do? I placed in the central position of my head dsl100h, as was the dsl40c, and does this on a 40-minute course the power has halved my question someone already tried to use these dsl100h with two valves only? It sounds great if I could use two, because the 100w volume is absurd difficult to use, with two more was wonderful


----------



## bman

SlyStrat said:


> Great tone is worth the money to me. The DSL is ok, but there's better.


Your right. An aftermarket speaker greatly improve the tone of the DSL and still under 800 bucks with the upgrade. To me it's the best sounding Marshall I've ever heard under $1,000. With that being said it's not in the same league as a head and cabinet from some of the other Marshall series.


----------



## luis henrique

http://mlb-s2-p.mlstatic.com/capacitor-silver-mica-100pf-5-500v-346311-MLB20538722053_012016-F.jpg got this silver mica capacitor 100pF x 500v, someone here already used in this mod c19? I'm thinking of putting this, because not found a 100v


----------



## bman

ken361 said:


> Dudes how does this sound I re EQ'd it and set the amp on a lean against a table so I can really hear it



Curious what's the blue pedal I can't read it? Also what are your EQ settingsset too if you don't mind me asking.


----------



## ken361

bman said:


> Curious what's the blue pedal I can't read it? Also what are your EQ settingsset too if you don't mind me asking.


Trb 2 mids 6 bass 6 pres 6 resonance 1 with the amp sitting on the floor its going to sound warmer then the video. In the video I had the mic at cone so it sound like if the amp if it was tilted right at me. Today at my girls condo I tried it tilted and it sounded brighter so I lowered the presence. See what works best,like I said warmer tones leave on the floor warmer picks does wonders also.Gain 5


----------



## ken361

Blue pedal is a Caline echo delay


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

luis henrique said:


> http://mlb-s2-p.mlstatic.com/capacitor-silver-mica-100pf-5-500v-346311-MLB20538722053_012016-F.jpg got this silver mica capacitor 100pF x 500v, someone here already used in this mod c19? I'm thinking of putting this, because not found a 100v



The only issue would be the physical size. That and the leads might be too big to fit through the holes in the pcb. Give it a shot though.


----------



## minerman

ken361 said:


> Got the inspired settings from a video on you tube with a guy playing the 100H with a SG,a southern dude.Very acdc sounding.



If it's the same guy I'm thinking about, damn if he ain't ugly...
If it's not, I apologize in advance....


----------



## ken361

minerman said:


> If it's the same guy I'm thinking about, damn if he ain't ugly...
> If it's not, I apologize in advance....


 Oh yeah thats him ahhh just seen your name lol


----------



## rlowe

Just put in my new Celestion Vintage 30 a few days ago. This speaker is not broke in yet and I can hear the speaker broadcasting (filling the room) without having to lean over to hear the tone as compared to the seventy/80. Feel's
like a thoroughbred steed leaping high hurdles as I whip off a few licks! meatier, much more pronounced.


----------



## ken361

bman said:


> Curious what's the blue pedal I can't read it? Also what are your EQ settingsset too if you don't mind me asking.


I been running the treb at 2, might of made a mistake writing at 3 any luck with the settings?


----------



## bman

For whatever reason I need to keep my trebble
around 5 or it sounds muffled unless I'm really cranking it. I have an old vintage 30 speaker in mine and my two guitars are Peavey Wolfgang and evh Wolfgang. I keep bass at 5 ,treble at 5, and mid's at 6. Also keep resonance and presence at 5. Almost forgot to mention, I replaced all the stock preamp tubes with tung sol which have a very balanced and neutral tone. I suppose that helps me to keep all my tone knobs around noon. Only slightly bump up my mid-range EQ because I like the added sustain I get from this. I've been tonechasing on a budget for 30 years and I'm still not satisfied.


----------



## bman

ken361 said:


> Trb 2 mids 6 bass 6 pres 6 resonance 1 with the amp sitting on the floor its going to sound warmer then the video. In the video I had the mic at cone so it sound like if the amp if it was tilted right at me. Today at my girls condo I tried it tilted and it sounded brighter so I lowered the presence. See what works best,like I said warmer tones leave on the floor warmer picks does wonders also.Gain 5


 I just discovered it sounds a little brighter when tilted up. I picked up an amp stand for under $20 which allows it to point directly in my face while standing. When doing this I need to roll the treble and presence back one but other than that I too keep everything around noon with the gain on 6.


----------



## ken361

I had 1 peavey and the EVH one also Last one was the Japan made one I traded my Les Paul studio for it, that was a bad move it sounded kinda dead sounding! It recorded well though! Basswood no maple cap and a floyd killed the tone when cranked. Couldnt adjust the pups hardly at all so I traded it in. MY SG at the time was wayy more smoother sounding loud. The new mexican models they got the bridge pup lined up just right! older ones were too far away from the strings. Would like one on those


----------



## minerman

I find my DSL100H to be very bright. I keep the presence on about 5, & the treble around 2 or so. This is for recording, but I'm sure for gigging, the settings would be very different, depending on the music being played.

I personally think these DSL's are a good amp if you're on a budget, & with some tweaking can deliver great tones in spades...No, they're not a Friedman, Bogner, etc., but, they don't cost $2-3,000 either...


----------



## ken361

minerman said:


> I find my DSL100H to be very bright. I keep the presence on about 5, & the treble around 2 or so. This is for recording, but I'm sure for gigging, the settings would be very different, depending on the music being played.
> 
> I personally think these DSL's are a good amp if you're on a budget, & with some tweaking can deliver great tones in spades...No, they're not a Friedman, Bogner, etc., but, they don't cost $2-3,000 either...


Thats how mine is set now, took a year to figure it out lol the presence keeps the highs there with out being too bright. Depends on you speakers and tubes my combo is pretty warm with those settings if the amps on the floor. Tilted more brighter so i would have a adjust some. The WSG british leads have a lot of bass compared to teh 70/80 and warmer highs for sure


----------



## ken361

minerman said:


> I find my DSL100H to be very bright. I keep the presence on about 5, & the treble around 2 or so. This is for recording, but I'm sure for gigging, the settings would be very different, depending on the music being played.
> 
> I personally think these DSL's are a good amp if you're on a budget, & with some tweaking can deliver great tones in spades...No, they're not a Friedman, Bogner, etc., but, they don't cost $2-3,000 either...


How are your the settings when playing loud? you have a 412 though


----------



## AAHIHaveNoIdeaWhatImDoing

the british lead was the one speaker i wanted to try but didnt...had the wgs creamback equivalent and then swapped it for vet 30, after that i would have had to buy another speaker since wgs only does one swap. still have the vet30. its cool but always was curious about brit lead. very little info/samples out there.


----------



## minerman

ken361 said:


> How are your the settings when playing loud? you have a 412 though







Yeah, I use a 4x12 with my DSL100H...

This really isn't super loud, but it's loud enough to get some controlled feedback sitting in the same room with the amp, & loud enough to get some air moving into the mic(s). This is about where I start & end up for a lot of my tracks. The biggest factor is the gain knob, depends on how clean/dirty I want/need, IE: for my rhythm tracks, I usually use OD1, & the gain knob is usually around 2 or so. For leads, I either just push the OD1/OD2 button, and/or crank the gain up to around where it is in the pic above, again, depends on the song/context...

Of course, these settings/volume levels are for keeper tracks, for just messing around, I don't play anywhere near this loud, but I usually have everything else the same...

A little "trick" I've learned about the mid-shift button is to engage it, & crank the mids anywhere from 7-10. It changes the frequency of the mid knob, & can smooth the top end a little, while adding some punch to the sound. As always, YMMV....


----------



## ken361

Thats how I set mine but less bass and 4 on the volume is nice 7 crunch. I use to be a SG player but ended up trading it for my Les Paul. Thought your sound with those speakers really record nice.


----------



## minerman

ken361 said:


> Thats how I set mine but less bass and 4 on the volume is nice 7 crunch. I use to be a SG player but ended up trading it for my Les Paul. Thought your sound with those speakers really record nice.



Thanks man, the bass is up pretty high because I'm trying to get that "chunk" I hear in a lot of recordings I like...I've actually got 4 different speakers in my cab, I know it sounds crazy, but I can get quite a lot of different tones just by moving the mic to another speaker...Eventually, I'm gonna get another cab & probably X-pattern/mate up these speakers...


----------



## ken361

Would like a 412 again someday, I like the 40c so I can take it to my girlfriends place and rock it on the weekends


----------



## rlowe

This link is to a JCM2000/DSL100 mod. It's a little heavy not so Classic style.


----------



## ken361

sounds more meaty whats the mod?


----------



## MarshallDog

Have any of you DSL40C Owners experienced this???

Twice over a few weeks I have been playing my DSL40C just over bedroom levels when all of a sudden all volume goes to zero, nothing at all! The power switch light is on but no sound on any channels. So I cycle the power and all is well and I continue playing. If I cycle just the standby switch its still dead but cycling the power switch brings it back. 

I have tapped hard on the cab and wiggled the amp but all seems fine, no pops, static, etc.

The next time this happens I plan on checking to see if the PTs are glowing and then I will tap each preamp tube with a wooden pencil to see if its a tube. The tubes are newer but maybe one is bad, what do you think??

Tonight it happened for the second time and then I played the hell out of it, pretty dam loud for a while and she heated up nice but there was no issues at all.

Let me know your thoughts or if anyone else has had this happen.

Thanks,

MD


----------



## ken361

Prb a preamp tube


----------



## MarshallDog

ken361 said:


> Prb a preamp tube



That's what I was thinking? Do you think it could be V1 seeing as all channels go silent? I think it's OK to pull one tube at a time and change them out while the amp is on correct? I will,simple turn all volumes down. What do you think?


----------



## Bownse

Mine did it most recently when a power tube crapped out on me.


----------



## rlowe

ken361 said:


> sounds more meaty whats the mod?


Tube tone silver mod?? Would have to inquire at their website to find out exactly!


----------



## rlowe

ken361 said:


> Thats how mine is set now, took a year to figure it out lol the presence keeps the highs there with out being too bright. Depends on you speakers and tubes my combo is pretty warm with those settings if the amps on the floor. Tilted more brighter so i would have a adjust some. The WSG british leads have a lot of bass compared to teh 70/80 and warmer highs for sure


Yes, I purchased one of those $20.00 amp stands mentioned earlier in the forum. UPS front porch 1 day! yep!. I know an amp will loose some deep if you raise it, but now sitting on the stands lowest setting, slightly angled upwards it sounds a little fizzier, or muffled. I don't quite care for the sound compared to the amp on the floor, and will move the stand and amp to a tight corner tomorrow!


----------



## MarshallDog

Bownse said:


> Mine did it most recently when a power tube crapped out on me.



Thanks Budd, Ill be checking them out the next time this happens.


----------



## TheCrunge

rlowe said:


> Yes, I purchased one of those $20.00 amp stands mentioned earlier in the forum. UPS front porch 1 day! yep!. I know an amp will loose some deep if you raise it, but now sitting on the stands lowest setting, slightly angled upwards it sounds a little fizzier, or muffled. I don't quite care for the sound compared to the amp on the floor, and will move the stand and amp to a tight corner tomorrow!



I had the same exact experience with my amp stand. I was struggling with my sound being all shrill & fizzy after getting my dsl40c on a stand. It was on the lowest stand setting. I actually bough an eq pedal to put in the loop because I had no lows. It worked in adding some low end, but it was still fizzy. So I took the amp off the stand and put it a bit closer to the wall and man what a difference. Now I have too much low end. So i use my eq to cut the lows out.


----------



## ken361

Amp placement makes sense ! I get a warm thicker tone when I play at my GF's condo finished basement. Like I said before if the amps on a tilt cut the trb and pres and add more bass and maybe cut the mids to 4 I found a nice raunchy marshall sound, its loud because its right at you lol I like both ways but this may be a good way to dial your tone in proper. Put it back on the floor and fine tune it.


----------



## ken361

MarshallDog said:


> Thanks Budd, Ill be checking them out the next time this happens.


good to have extra preamp tubes around also


----------



## Bownse

Corners are good for open-backed amps.


----------



## G the wildman

I just bought a Gator Quick Lock stand. It is ok for the house but not robust enough for moving about.

It is a low stand. I have it in a corner. I think it produces a warm sound with the treble on 2. 

It also makes it easy to change the settings if you like to EQ a lot.

I think the stand is a good move.

This amp seems to require a lot of tuning but switching guitars helps. Between my Fender Strat with S1 switch and my LP I get some nice cleans and good metal.

I do struggle to get distortion like Van Halen's Runnin With The Devil. Do I need a pedal or is it my technique?

G


----------



## ken361

Messing around with the MIM strat not sure how it sounds to you guys. All stock! excuse the amateur playing


----------



## G the wildman

ken361 said:


> Messing around with the MIM strat not sure how it sounds to you guys. All stock! excuse the amateur playing



Nice Ken. What no. Is gain on? What no is middle on? Is Strat on bridge pups?

G


----------



## ken361

G the wildman said:


> Nice Ken. What no. Is gain on? What no is middle on? Is Strat on bridge pups?
> 
> G


Gain 3, treb 3 mids 4, bass 3, pres 3 res think 5. Ceramic humbuckers are kinda harsh,kinda used the settings this guy used with the JCM 2000 going against the EVH 5150III on the tube. Both amps sounded really close to each other. Was a little surprised he used lead 2 but it is a bit more ballsy


----------



## BanditPanda

Micky said:


> I have one of these and it works great!




Hi Micky..I did just receive that amp stand and it is good for the money no doubt except that I am experiencing, like previous posters, what they describe as " fizziness " Nothing to do with tone in my case, however there is definitely a pronounced fizz constantly emanating from the amp which I never heard before when the amp was on the ground. You didn't / haven't experienced that when using the stand?
Just using the clean channel straight up with pedal board thru the loop. Any ideas/suggestions on the cause / solution?
Thank you
B.P.


----------



## MarshallDog

MarshallDog said:


> Have any of you DSL40C Owners experienced this???
> 
> Twice over a few weeks I have been playing my DSL40C just over bedroom levels when all of a sudden all volume goes to zero, nothing at all! The power switch light is on but no sound on any channels. So I cycle the power and all is well and I continue playing. If I cycle just the standby switch its still dead but cycling the power switch brings it back.
> 
> I have tapped hard on the cab and wiggled the amp but all seems fine, no pops, static, etc.
> 
> The next time this happens I plan on checking to see if the PTs are glowing and then I will tap each preamp tube with a wooden pencil to see if its a tube. The tubes are newer but maybe one is bad, what do you think??
> 
> Tonight it happened for the second time and then I played the hell out of it, pretty dam loud for a while and she heated up nice but there was no issues at all.
> 
> Let me know your thoughts or if anyone else has had this happen.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> MD



Bump 1


----------



## ken361

ken361 said:


> Gain 3, treb 3 mids 3, bass 3, pres 3 res think 5. Ceramic humbuckers are kinda harsh,kinda used the settings this guy used with the JCM 2000 going against the EVH 5150III on the tube. Both amps sounded really close to each other. Was a little surprised he used lead 2 but it is a bit more ballsy



Not me here


----------



## TheCrunge

Does anyone use the red channel for cleans, and the green for cruch? I love the green's crunch with gain at full. But in order for me to get a good clean I need to lower the gain, push the button, and raise the volume on the green. Lowering the volume on my guitar does not give me sufficient cleans. 
I tried the red with the gain at 1 or 2 and it is clean, but sounds too empty.
Is one of the 12ax7's specifically for the red channel's gain? What if I put a 12au7 in the red's? Would that make some nice cleans?


----------



## G the wildman

TheCrunge said:


> Does anyone use the red channel for cleans, and the green for cruch? I love the green's crunch with gain at full. But in order for me to get a good clean I need to lower the gain, push the button, and raise the volume on the green. Lowering the volume on my guitar does not give me sufficient cleans.
> I tried the red with the gain at 1 or 2 and it is clean, but sounds too empty.
> Is one of the 12ax7's specifically for the red channel's gain? What if I put a 12au7 in the red's? Would that make some nice cleans?


Well I am content with cleans but would like a thicker OD on red. I was looking at a tone boys TBOD50. It cleans and thickens. Has anyone tried it. The company's video is good.

G


----------



## ken361

G the wildman said:


> Well I am content with cleans but would like a thicker OD on red. I was looking at a tone boys TBOD50. It cleans and thickens. Has anyone tried it. The company's video is good.
> 
> G


Try lead 2 gain at 3?


----------



## Micky

BanditPanda said:


> Hi Micky..I did just receive that amp stand and it is good for the money no doubt except that I am experiencing, like previous posters, what they describe as " fizziness " Nothing to do with tone in my case, however there is definitely a pronounced fizz constantly emanating from the amp which I never heard before when the amp was on the ground. You didn't / haven't experienced that when using the stand?
> Just using the clean channel straight up with pedal board thru the loop. Any ideas/suggestions on the cause / solution?
> Thank you
> B.P.


What do you mean by fizz? Fizz on the Ultra channel? Noise when idling? Need more info.

I think because you have now aimed the amp at your ear, you can now hear everything a lot better...


----------



## Micky

TheCrunge said:


> Does anyone use the red channel for cleans, and the green for cruch? I love the green's crunch with gain at full. But in order for me to get a good clean I need to lower the gain, push the button, and raise the volume on the green. Lowering the volume on my guitar does not give me sufficient cleans.
> I tried the red with the gain at 1 or 2 and it is clean, but sounds too empty.
> Is one of the 12ax7's specifically for the red channel's gain? What if I put a 12au7 in the red's? Would that make some nice cleans?


No way will anyone be able to use the Ultra Channel for cleans. It is just not in the circuitry.
Best to use the Classic Channel with the Volume up all the way and the Gain up to where you need the output to be.
If you are trying to use the Ultra Channel for cleans you bought the wrong amp...


----------



## TheCrunge

Micky said:


> No way will anyone be able to use the Ultra Channel for cleans. It is just not in the circuitry.
> Best to use the Classic Channel with the Volume up all the way and the Gain up to where you need the output to be.
> If you are trying to use the Ultra Channel for cleans you bought the wrong amp...


I figured the red channel wasn't meant to be clean. I'm just tinkering and experimenting to get the most out of this amp. Whether it be what it's designed for, or beyond.


----------



## G the wildman

ken361 said:


> Try lead 2 gain at 3?


Ken, that provided something close to what I wanted. It also transpires that the Toneboys pedal is not for sale in the UK . So thank you.

But that pedal the TBOD50 sure does sound cool. It appears to make cleans cleaner and the OD warmer. I would love to hear a recording with one on the DSL40c if anyone has one.

G


----------



## G the wildman

Micky said:


> No way will anyone be able to use the Ultra Channel for cleans. It is just not in the circuitry.
> Best to use the Classic Channel with the Volume up all the way and the Gain up to where you need the output to be.
> If you are trying to use the Ultra Channel for cleans you bought the wrong amp...


Micky the advert for the Toneboys TBOD 50 appears to indicate that it cleans overdrive channels. If so this would solve so many issues for so many people. Do you know anything of it. They have a great video advert and it sounds great. But the demo is not with a Marshall.


----------



## G the wildman

TheCrunge said:


> I figured the red channel wasn't meant to be clean. I'm just tinkering and experimenting to get the most out of this amp. Whether it be what it's designed for, or beyond.


See Toneboys advert for TBOD50. May help.


----------



## Micky

G the wildman said:


> Micky the advert for the Toneboys TBOD 50 appears to indicate that it cleans overdrive channels. If so this would solve so many issues for so many people. Do you know anything of it. They have a great video advert and it sounds great. But the demo is not with a Marshall.


I have no clue about this.
As I said, if you are trying to use 'cleans' on a Marshall Ultra Channel you got the wrong amp.
I would imagine if you crank it way up and then dial back the guitar volume, the gain and maybe some EQ you might resemble something clean.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

If you really wanna hear what your amp sounds like, angle it up at your head. I don't actually understand setting an amp on tne floor and standing to play especially if recording or if you want to hear your tone live. Pretty hard to set the tone when you are off axis. I use a Standback stand so amp is still touching floor for better low end.


----------



## luis henrique

hello, friends, my EL34 quartet came to my dsl100h, my doubt is about the bias! I saw a video on you tube about the explanatory dsl40c, more about 100h no quality video, how do I adjust the bias of dsl100h? I know it is in pairs of EL34, which more value? my plate voltage is 440volts, if the dsl 40c regulate in 39.7 over and dsl100h? Regulate how many mv each trim pot, thank you if you can clarify this doubt https://scontent-gru2-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=6e238a72d38b918914bc693739d98cc6&oe=577E6151


----------



## Micky

You bias the 100h the same way, except bias values are doubled because you have pairs of tubes instead of single tubes.
Normal range would be from 70-80 mVDC on each side.


----------



## luis henrique

[QUOTE = "Micky, post: 1496458, membro: 12873"] Você enviesar os 100h da mesma maneira, com exceção dos valores de polarização são duplicados porque você tem pares de tubos em vez de tubos individuais.
faixa normal seria 70-80 mVDC em cada lado. [/ QUOTE]
antes eu não penso assim importante verificar o viés do amp mais hoje viu boa olhada de vez em quando, por exemplo, a minha cabeça hoje perante o regulamento era de um lado 66,9, e outro 19.5 apenas para baixo mais


----------



## Micky

melhor para segurar ambos os lados estão equilibrados muito de perto. É por isso que os tubos devem ser combinados pares.


----------



## Bownse

WOW! Multilingual, too! 

Portagee


----------



## ken361

Heres something to try, guy on facebook did a EVH cover on his jcm2000 and I asked for his settings. Gain 4 to 5 treb 2+ mids 9 bass 3 pres 2+ tone shift in! resonance for us try 3 or so. He boosted it with a tube screamer I use my boost on my Les Paul its sounded pretty killer loud! tone shift takes some highs out.


----------



## ken361

Tilt the amp on the floor!


----------



## rlowe

ken361 said:


> Tilt the amp on the floor!


Yes, I will no longer be using my newly purchased stand, and yes it does lose it's depth and warm tone elevated off the floor. A standback stand or other type of angled stand will probably be in order. Actually a pinch of J&B weld applied to joint of current stand will keep it in check as an angled floor stand, or drill a pilot hole and place a bolt w/nut thru joint to prevent folding.


----------



## Len

Micky said:


> I have no clue about this.
> As I said, if you are trying to use 'cleans' on a Marshall Ultra Channel you got the wrong amp.
> I would imagine if you crank it way up and then dial back the guitar volume, the gain and maybe some EQ you might resemble something clean.


I always use the red channel with the gain halfway up and the roll back the volume of my neck pickup to get pretty nice woody cleans.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

rlowe said:


> Yes, I will no longer be using my newly purchased stand, and yes it does lose it's depth and warm tone elevated off the floor. A standback stand or other type of angled stand will probably be in order. Actually a pinch of J&B weld applied to joint of current stand will keep it in check as an angled floor stand


The standback stand fold up very nice. And light.


----------



## MarshallDog

MarshallDog said:


> Have any of you DSL40C Owners experienced this???
> 
> Twice over a few weeks I have been playing my DSL40C just over bedroom levels when all of a sudden all volume goes to zero, nothing at all! The power switch light is on but no sound on any channels. So I cycle the power and all is well and I continue playing. If I cycle just the standby switch its still dead but cycling the power switch brings it back.
> 
> I have tapped hard on the cab and wiggled the amp but all seems fine, no pops, static, etc.
> 
> The next time this happens I plan on checking to see if the PTs are glowing and then I will tap each preamp tube with a wooden pencil to see if its a tube. The tubes are newer but maybe one is bad, what do you think??
> 
> Tonight it happened for the second time and then I played the hell out of it, pretty dam loud for a while and she heated up nice but there was no issues at all.
> 
> Let me know your thoughts or if anyone else has had this happen.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> MD



Well, it seems that this strange issues was caused by the power tubes wearing out. I cleaned all the jacks, switches and sockets with Deoxit, did the chop stick test on all the components while the amp was live and put new power and pre-amp tubes and so far so good. It even sound a bit richer. We will see. Just cant believe the power tubes could cause this type of issue unless one or more of the sockets were dirty.


----------



## ken361

Some excellent sounding tones from a strat! found this on the tube. It doesnt get much better he's using the 20 watt mode with a Greenback


----------



## Jethro Rocker

MarshallDog said:


> Well, it seems that this strange issues was caused by the power tubes wearing out. I cleaned all the jacks, switches and sockets with Deoxit, did the chop stick test on all the components while the amp was live and put new power and pre-amp tubes and so far so good. It even sound a bit richer. We will see. Just cant believe the power tubes could cause this type of issue unless one or more of the sockets were dirty.


Likely the pre tubes are OK I had a similar experience with the 6101 with a tube that fit loosely...


----------



## MarshallDog

Jethro Rocker said:


> Likely the pre tubes are OK I had a similar experience with the 6101 with a tube that fit loosely...



I tossed out the power tubes but I did keep the pre-amp tubes. The power tubes were probably 5 years old and have made their way around to several amps. I guess I just thought if/when they went it would have been more definitive.


----------



## masap

Hello everyone! been a long time since i have been here. I am still EXTREMELY happy with my DSL 40C. I did end up replacing all the tubes and Martimus Maximus took great care of me. Amp sounds amazing! I use it plugged into my ext cab with 2 cream backs and 2 V30's. Space has been an issue for me and i thought about converting my DSL to a head. I did some searching and sure enough other members had already done it. So I just thought i would share my results for others and add my 2 cents to the community. I ever so carefully sliced my cabinet in half and glued it back together. I also used 6 flat metal bracket to attach the two halfs back together so i could work on it while the glue was drying. The only other thing i needed was a piece of wood to fill the void below the panel as the original front piece didn't provide spare wood without the speaker hole in the way. I painted the wood black and wrapped it with the cloth and mounted the Marshall logo to it. The back piece i ended up cutting 5 1/2 inches from the top and screwed it right back on - it looks perfect and i have the elongated hole in the back - not the mesh grill half. I left a total of 7 1/2 inches (Inside diameter) so i can just pull the tubes out. I am extremely happy with the results and the space saving. Project took me about 4 hrs total.

Here is a shot of my DSL40H:






Until the next time

masap


----------



## jeffb

Dear Marshall...


----------



## ken361

jeffb said:


> Dear Marshall...


stock i take it?


----------



## Micky

Turn it down dude! I like mine at 35 on both sides...
(for the TAD EL34's...)


----------



## jeffb

Yup. Thats how Marshall set it..yeesh.

I knocked it down to 38.0 on each side. Massive improvement in tone and feel. Red channel becane much more bearable as did Clean Green(I live on Green Crunch).


----------



## zanshin777

Will DSL40H be released? Why didn't Marshall release it so far? It's nonsense.

Marshall acts much slower in comparison with other amp brands MESA, Peavey, ENGL etc. The brands released smaller versions of their famous amp models. Marshall only released mini jube.


----------



## WasStoNed

jeffb said:


> Yup. Thats how Marshall set it..yeesh.
> 
> I knocked it down to 38.0 on each side. Massive improvement in tone and feel. Red channel becane much more bearable as did Clean Green(I live on Green Crunch).


green crunch does it for me too


----------



## rlowe

jeffb said:


> Dear Marshall...





jeffb said:


> Yup. Thats how Marshall set it..yeesh.
> 
> I knocked it down to 38.0 on each side. Massive improvement in tone and feel. Red channel becane much more bearable as did Clean Green(I live on Green Crunch).


I checked my bias about 3 months after purchase and both sides registered at aprx. 54.0 each. I lowered to a calculated 37.5 and the amp has sounded much smoother! Quality ctrl... where is Big daddy Marshall?


----------



## ken361

ken361 said:


> Some excellent sounding tones from a strat! found this on the tube. It doesnt get much better he's using the 20 watt mode with a Greenback



Nobody like?


----------



## BanditPanda

masap said:


> Hello everyone! been a long time since i have been here. I am still EXTREMELY happy with my DSL 40C. I did end up replacing all the tubes and Martimus Maximus took great care of me. Amp sounds amazing! I use it plugged into my ext cab with 2 cream backs and 2 V30's. Space has been an issue for me and i thought about converting my DSL to a head. I did some searching and sure enough other members had already done it. So I just thought i would share my results for others and add my 2 cents to the community. I ever so carefully sliced my cabinet in half and glued it back together. I also used 6 flat metal bracket to attach the two halfs back together so i could work on it while the glue was drying. The only other thing i needed was a piece of wood to fill the void below the panel as the original front piece didn't provide spare wood without the speaker hole in the way. I painted the wood black and wrapped it with the cloth and mounted the Marshall logo to it. The back piece i ended up cutting 5 1/2 inches from the top and screwed it right back on - it looks perfect and i have the elongated hole in the back - not the mesh grill half. I left a total of 7 1/2 inches (Inside diameter) so i can just pull the tubes out. I am extremely happy with the results and the space saving. Project took me about 4 hrs total.
> 
> Here is a shot of my DSL40H:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Until the next time
> 
> masap


Massap...so you are saying that this is the Marshall DSL40C which you have converted into separate head and cab
while maintain the integrity of the cab ( basically speaking ) Never mind the space I can only imagine how much weight you have relieved from the combo structure although of course now 2 trips to the car are required instead of the one back breaker.


----------



## BanditPanda

Micky said:


> What do you mean by fizz? Fizz on the Ultra channel? Noise when idling? Need more info.
> 
> I think because you have now aimed the amp at your ear, you can now hear everything a lot better...


Yes you are probably right about hearing every thing because of the tilt. I used the word " fizz " 'cause that's how the other posters were describing it. Perhaps it is better described as a " hiss ". I have removed the BBE Sonic Stomp from my pedal board which did noticeably reduce the " hiss " but the amp is certainly not " quiet "
Thanks Micky.
BP


----------



## BanditPanda

ken361 said:


> Nobody like?


Jeebus I can't imagine how much practice it must take to be able to do that. Then again some people are just gifted and it comes easily.
About the sound, Ken.... not really.


----------



## BanditPanda

Am curious about what happens to tone when the 40DSLC gets changed from being an open backed combo amp to a closed back speaker cab?


----------



## Oldpunk

BanditPanda said:


> Am curious about what happens to tone when the 40DSLC gets changed from being an open backed combo amp to a closed back speaker cab?



Overheating is what happens. No tone with a fried amp.


----------



## BanditPanda

Oldpunk said:


> Overheating is what happens. No tone with a fried amp.


Sorry I meant when the amp has been separated i.e. a DSL40C head going through a closed back cabinet


----------



## Micky

BanditPanda said:


> Sorry I meant when the amp has been separated i.e. a DSL40C head going through a closed back cabinet


It sounds awesome.
Try it, you'll really like it...
Better yet, find a 16-ohm cab and run them both together.


----------



## G the wildman

FYI
Had a real strange noise occurre in the amp on most settings with or without a guitar attached. It was a bit like wind rustling through a tree.

Rolled some tubes in the hope that it might be a rogue tube. Did not like the tone, so I replaced originals. The noise has gone. Strangely the tubes did not appear to be loose. But it was worth removing and refitting. I think v3 cured it.


----------



## rlowe

Tubes, Heat, Microphonic feedback 
Hi,
The reality is that if the feedback stops when you pot the guitar down then this is NOT a microphonic tube, it's actually interaction between your pickups and speakers, when the signal is excited by a high gain circuit. You will likely notice the dynamics of this phenomenon will change radically in different size rooms, depending which direction you face, and several other physical factors. 
The proper definition of 'microphonic' is that a tube when given a signal at a specific frequency, will oscillate and carry on that tone by itself, like a ringing bell. The reality is that all preamp tubes by design are microphonic to a degree, in that if you pump enough gain through a dual triode it will eventually start squealing. That said, if you 'remove' the signal (turn the guitar down or unplug it from the amp~) and the frequency continues to oscillate, then you have a bad microphonic tube.
No, I can’t imagine the tube was compromised from heat buildup for such a small amount of time.
Yes, I you have an amp where heat build up is an issue you can use a small fan of the back of the chassis to blow air away and out of the chassis. You don’t want the air blowing directly on the tubes, they are designed to run hot and you don’t want to get them too cool.
Feel free to let me know if you have any additional questions.
Thanks,
Michael Eurotubes


----------



## ken361

Eurotubes customer service is pretty nice, I called them about some microphonic issues with my power tubes it ended up being the power tubes causing the hum! there willing to answer your questions


----------



## G the wildman

rlowe said:


> Tubes, Heat, Microphonic feedback
> Hi,
> The reality is that if the feedback stops when you pot the guitar down then this is NOT a microphonic tube, it's actually interaction between your pickups and speakers, when the signal is excited by a high gain circuit. You will likely notice the dynamics of this phenomenon will change radically in different size rooms, depending which direction you face, and several other physical factors.
> The proper definition of 'microphonic' is that a tube when given a signal at a specific frequency, will oscillate and carry on that tone by itself, like a ringing bell. The reality is that all preamp tubes by design are microphonic to a degree, in that if you pump enough gain through a dual triode it will eventually start squealing. That said, if you 'remove' the signal (turn the guitar down or unplug it from the amp~) and the frequency continues to oscillate, then you have a bad microphonic tube.
> No, I can’t imagine the tube was compromised from heat buildup for such a small amount of time.
> Yes, I you have an amp where heat build up is an issue you can use a small fan of the back of the chassis to blow air away and out of the chassis. You don’t want the air blowing directly on the tubes, they are designed to run hot and you don’t want to get them too cool.
> Feel free to let me know if you have any additional questions.
> Thanks,
> Michael Eurotubes


Thank you Michael,

The rustling noise came back so through a process of elimination I found the microfonic tube in V1. First of all I swapped it with v4. The noise stopped but the tone was terrible. So I did some more swapping. I could not believe the different tones this produced, non of which were pleasant. Why would that be with stock tubes, when they are all the same?

I have a Eurotube Tad 7025. So I put all tubes back in their original sockets and replaced v1 with the 7025. Early signs are that I now have just a minor hiss on high gain. The tone is different but I expect I will find new EQ settings that give me what I like.

If that tube is a good tube, should I put one in each socket. Or is that tube a v1 only tube.

Marshall say mixing tubes WILL damage an amp.

Cheers

G


----------



## Micky

G the wildman said:


> Marshall say mixing tubes WILL damage an amp.



Maybe power tubes, but not preamp tubes.
Swap them around until you find a combination you like.
It is called 'tube rolling'.


----------



## ken361

Got a little brown sound going on amateur playing


----------



## G the wildman

ken361 said:


> Got a little brown sound going on amateur playing



Is that just the amp or do you have pedals

G


----------



## ken361

G the wildman said:


> Is that just the amp or do you have pedals
> 
> G


just the amp and some delay


----------



## mickeydg5

The most popular amplifier since the Silver Jubilee. ?????


----------



## Penguinchit

Where's the Official Marshall DSL40C Information Thread, Vol. 2?


----------



## donnyrocker

BanditPanda said:


> Sorry I meant when the amp has been separated i.e. a DSL40C head going through a closed back cabinet



I have a closed back 212 a friend built that I just had to have, and I don't even know what it's loaded with. My DSL40c (stock at the time) competed fairly well with my Friedman SS100 through it. But it was like a 6-cylinder competing against an 8- (or bigger!) cylinder: it had to get out of the passing lane


----------



## G the wildman

I am thinking of getting the Boss Waza Blues pedal, Super overdrive pedal, and delay pedal. (All Waza).

Anyone use these with the DSL40c. I think the OD pedals may provide warmer sounds with less flab.

Look forward to hearing if you use these or similar.


----------



## wolfpack

donnyrocker said:


> I have a closed back 212 a friend built that I just had to have, and I don't even know what it's loaded with. My DSL40c (stock at the time) competed fairly well with my Friedman SS100 through it. But it was like a 6-cylinder competing against an 8- (or bigger!) cylinder: it had to get out of the passing lane



OK, cool
but
6 cylinder = $700
8 cylinder = $3,500


----------



## rlowe

G the wildman said:


> I am thinking of getting the Boss Waza Blues pedal, Super overdrive pedal, and delay pedal. (All Waza).
> 
> Anyone use these with the DSL40c. I think the OD pedals may provide warmer sounds with less flab.
> 
> Look forward to hearing if you use these or similar.


Tip of the day: An Overdrive pedal will drive your tube amp more naturally than say a distortion pedal. Use one overdrive pedal to boost the green channel clean or crunch, green ch. gain medium or high experiment. The delay depending on type sounds deeper in the effects loop. Good luck!


----------



## IRG

G the wildman said:


> I am thinking of getting the Boss Waza Blues pedal, Super overdrive pedal, and delay pedal. (All Waza).
> 
> Anyone use these with the DSL40c. I think the OD pedals may provide warmer sounds with less flab.
> 
> Look forward to hearing if you use these or similar.




I have the DM-2w delay - really good delay for the money. I have a EHX DMM on my board too, the added modulation is worth it for me. The DM-2w has quite a bit more delay time if you need it. I would put both in the effects loop, works well there.

I haven't used the two Boss overdrives in a long time, and not with this amp. But decent choices for sure. The Fulltone OCD is worthy of consideration, especially new at $111. My favorite low gain overdrive is a Bearfoot/BJFE Honey Bee, just works on the clean channel for me, and works with all pickup types well. A little pricier over the Boss, but for me, it's a piece of gear I've had a long time, and have never tired of it.


----------



## IRG

jeffb said:


> Yup. Thats how Marshall set it..yeesh.
> 
> I knocked it down to 38.0 on each side. Massive improvement in tone and feel. Red channel becane much more bearable as did Clean Green(I live on Green Crunch).




I know there are umpteen posts on this very long thread, but I have a professor in our engineering school willing to help bias my DSL40c, wondering what level it should be at, so 38 is about right then, right? I live on the green channel too, more clean than crunch, with pedals I really like providing the gain most of the time. Power tubes will be EHX EL34. I had a new set of Ruby EL34 installed, but they were microphonic right off the bat.


----------



## ken361

check the plate voltage first then look up the bias calculator online to determine were to set it, you just want to get into the hot range IMO


----------



## Micky

ken361 said:


> check the plate voltage first then look up the bias calculator online to determine were to set it, you just want to get into the hot range IMO


Exactly.
You can't just set a specific level without doing the math.
Here is the bias calculator:
http://www.tedweber.com/webervst/tubes1/calcbias.htm

I like my bias a little cooler, it brings out the warmth and gives a bit more clean headroom.


----------



## jeffb

Yeah. I like mine a bit on the hotter side. 

But not quite so hot as they were as set by the factory


----------



## mtsalmela80

ken361 said:


> Got a little brown sound going on amateur playing




Pretty good sound. Definitely "brown" as in VH2-Fair Warning.


----------



## ken361

mtsalmela80 said:


> Pretty good sound. Definitely "brown" as in VH2-Fair Warning.


Yeah I wish I had the funds for a better humbucker, but with some tweaking it sounds decent, lead 2 gain at 3 works nice also


----------



## IRG

Micky said:


> Exactly.
> You can't just set a specific level without doing the math.
> Here is the bias calculator:
> http://www.tedweber.com/webervst/tubes1/calcbias.htm
> 
> I like my bias a little cooler, it brings out the warmth and gives a bit more clean headroom.



Awesome, thanks. Exactly what I needed.


----------



## rlowe

IRG said:


> Awesome, thanks. Exactly what I needed.


 Here is a link to help bias the Dsl40c. Hope it helps! Be sure and read about amplifiier high voltages first! The Ted weber calculator mentioned earlier in a post, and in the video will help tremendously.


----------



## Toni

I wanted (and still want) to buy a CODE for practice, but it is getting delayed every month. Since I need an amp for apartment practice, I am thinking about getting a DSL. I tested a DSL15C at my local music store and liked it quite a bit. I couldn't get a good impression of how good the amp sounds at low volumes since the ambient noise in the store was too much.

My problem now is that I don't know which DSL to pick. There isn't a huge price difference between the DSL5C (~550€) and the DSL40C (~700€), so price is not really a deciding factor. The DSL5C _should_ be better suited for apartment practice. However, I dislike that I'd have to buy a separate reverb pedal. The DSL15C has reverb but no effects loop. Finally, the DSL40C has everything, and it's big cab might produce the best sound. Does it work well enough at low volumes (= low TV volumes, normal conversation volumes)?


----------



## ken361

The 40c sounds really good at low volumes just below the 1 mark, and loud enough to record also. I keep it at the 40 watt mode all the time.


----------



## Bownse

I used my in Triode (half power) mode for bedroom volumes. In Pentode (full power) mode the changes in volume are harder control because a slight move of the dial creates big changes. The controls are less sensitive at half power.

If playing with a band or in a larger room that difference is less noticable because you want bigger sound.


----------



## rlowe

Toni said:


> I wanted (and still want) to buy a CODE for practice, but it is getting delayed every month. Since I need an amp for apartment practice, I am thinking about getting a DSL. I tested a DSL15C at my local music store and liked it quite a bit. I couldn't get a good impression of how good the amp sounds at low volumes since the ambient noise in the store was too much.
> 
> My problem now is that I don't know which DSL to pick. There isn't a huge price difference between the DSL5C (~550€) and the DSL40C (~700€), so price is not really a deciding factor. The DSL5C _should_ be better suited for apartment practice. However, I dislike that I'd have to buy a separate reverb pedal. The DSL15C has reverb but no effects loop. Finally, the DSL40C has everything, and it's big cab might produce the best sound. Does it work well enough at low volumes (= low TV volumes, normal conversation volumes)?


IMO the dsl40c sounds better at a tad bit larger volume and maybe not as suitable for say, an apartment dwelling where tenants can become annoyed (the dsl40c can produce substantial volume). The dsl15c and dsl5c can still get loud, whereas the dsl5c has a headphone jack for privacy. I believe other forum members own the dsl5c and maybe they can help.


----------



## WasStoNed

I play mine pretty quiet when the familay are around, I sit within 3 feet of it and the sound comes through well. It does sound alot better when I can crank it though.
It's wierd as I think I am being really loud but family say they can only hear the bassier bits.

I think i've broken the speaker in now as the sound is more consistent.


----------



## Toni

rlowe said:


> IMO the dsl40c sounds better at a tad bit larger volume and maybe not as suitable for say, an apartment dwelling where tenants can become annoyed (the dsl40c can produce substantial volume). The dsl15c and dsl5c can still get loud, whereas the dsl5c has a headphone jack for privacy. I believe other forum members own the dsl5c and maybe they can help.



What I find a bit annoying with the DSL5C is that when you add a reverb pedal and some patch cables you end up with a higher price than the DSL15C and almost at the same price as the DSL40C; at least at my store. Looking purely at price and what you get for it, the DSL40C seems to be the best deal. (I don't fully understand Marshall's pricing strategy here.) I'm just not sure if it would be the best idea to get the DSL40C and never be able to crank it up. I am living in a rented apartment and I am not gigging.


----------



## IRG

I agree with Toni, the DSL40C is the better all around value, but it comes to what you need and like for your situation. I find the 40dsl does well at home, that's where I use it, both at 20 and 40 w. Probably if it had a 1 watt mode it might be even more suitable for apartment dwelling, but not sure how feasible that would be. The included reverb sucks, just being honest. It beats not having anything though, especially if you just want a touch. But the effects loop imo is worth the upgrade over the other two. And I have a Digitech Polara and some analog delays in the loop which sound wonderful with this amp. I had a Boss RV6 reverb pedal, and it wasn't a good match for this amp, or my ears, not sure why.


----------



## IRG

If I could have a "different" version of the DSL, it might be just the green channel, with footswitchable clean and crunch modes. Two totally different volume/gain for each channel, and separate EQ for each too. Might only need bass and treble, with switches for a mid boost for each channel if desired, or something along those lines.

I like how both the clean and crunch sound with a Les Paul, and don't have a drop a bass, unlike the red channel. I understand why though, with lots of gain and volume, too much bass can sound flubby, hence the reduction. But for home use, it just sounds a bit anemic, unlike the green channel at any level.

I use a ThorpyFX Muffroom fuzz with the green channel, when I need a good dose of heavy - with it, no need for the red channel.


----------



## Bownse

I'd agree with the above. I could easily see getting the 40 as being much more flexible to different needs. I'd run it at 20 with the volume down (maybe on a stand if in an upstairs appt so that it wouldn't transmit through the floor as much). Plenty do-able while avoiding the need to buy another amp if you living situation changes.

If you're wanting a practice amp for an appt (only), then get a little Pignose with an A/C adapter and go to town.


----------



## rlowe

ken361 said:


> The 40c sounds really good at low volumes just below the 1 mark, and loud enough to record also. I keep it at the 40 watt mode all the time.


Glad you like it Ken361, but i've gots to have a little more meat on the bone!


----------



## LckydevL

Added a MXR 10 Band EQ a few months ago. Main reason for purchase was the ability to take the volume down to as much as -12db. Also get the cool little knobs that go up and down that makes me sound a lot better than I really am.

To give an example of its effectiveness, these numbers are smallish bedroom numbers. MXR - volume -12db, gain 0bd, everything else to taste.

Red channel Lead 1:

Vol - 7
Gain - 4
Treble - 3
Middle - 3
Bass - 6
Presence - 0
Resonance - 4

Don't know if this has been discussed as an alternative to an attenuator or not. But it works for me. And I feel like I can dial any sound I need to with the MXR EQ.

Gibson Les Paul Standard (Burstbucker Pro's) straight in with MXR EQ and a TC Electronice HOF in the loop.


----------



## G the wildman

LckydevL said:


> Added a MXR 10 Band EQ a few months ago. Main reason for purchase was the ability to take the volume down to as much as -12db. Also get the cool little knobs that go up and down that makes me sound a lot better than I really am.
> 
> To give an example of its effectiveness, these numbers are smallish bedroom numbers. MXR - volume -12db, gain 0bd, everything else to taste.
> 
> Red channel Lead 1:
> 
> Vol - 7
> Gain - 4
> Treble - 3
> Middle - 3
> Bass - 6
> Presence - 0
> Resonance - 4
> 
> Don't know if this has been discussed as an alternative to an attenuator or not. But it works for me. And I feel like I can dial any sound I need to with the MXR EQ.
> 
> Gibson Les Paul Standard (Burstbucker Pro's) straight in with MXR EQ and a TC Electronice HOF in the loop.


I like this. Who else uses pedasl with the DSL40c. Please tell us about them. E.g. Why you use them and what they do that the amp can't.


----------



## rlowe

I would suggest using an overdrive to drive the green clean, or crunch channel mix and match. I use a an Archer overdrive to boost a Rothwell hellbender overdrive running thru the clean channel with gain at mid. The Marshall dsl 40c sounds great on rhythm and some classic lead, but IMO if you use this, or a similiar setup your harmonic content will sound better and stronger!


----------



## G the wildman

rlowe said:


> I would suggest using an overdrive to drive the green clean, or crunch channel mix and match. I use a an Archer overdrive to boost a Rothwell hellbender overdrive running thru the clean channel with gain at mid. The Marshall dsl 40c sounds great on rhythm and some classic lead, but IMO if you use this, or a similiar setup your harmonic content will sound better and stronger!


Is the volume too low on green without crunch or do the pedals raise the volume?


----------



## luis henrique

https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=ea40abba1e5844284fe5c4f5fcefdc35&oe=57A5E8DD sent manufacture a choke in specifications as the classictone 3h, put today and tested, the result here was a less hard amplifier in average volumes, as always firmer bass and softer amp overall, I'm happy with the result


----------



## luis henrique




----------



## luis henrique




----------



## rlowe

G the wildman said:


> Is the volume too low on green without crunch or do the pedals raise the volume?


If you have a high output overdrive like the Rothwell, or Archer pedal using one or both combined with the gain set at noon their will be plenty of volume and gain. Using the Archer to boost the Rothwell on the clean channel can give you unlimited possibilities depending on how you set it. The point of using the clean channel is that it gives you a cleaner, more of a harmonically distinct tone, yet plenty of gain.


----------



## Paul_pedro

Im planning to buy a dsl 40c this summer, anything i should know about it? Quite a new guitar player, only started a few months ago. Also what pedals should i have? Ive already purchased a fullbore metal distortion and a wah pedal. I play guns and roses, metallica, led zepellin, avenged sevenfold and etc.


----------



## Paul_pedro

Also id like to buy a cab simulator for when im playing with headphones. Are there any cheaper ones because the ones i saw where too expensive for me :/


----------



## Micky

Paul_pedro said:


> Im planning to buy a dsl 40c this summer, anything i should know about it? Quite a new guitar player, only started a few months ago. Also what pedals should i have? Ive already purchased a fullbore metal distortion and a wah pedal. I play guns and roses, metallica, led zepellin, avenged sevenfold and etc.


You need to start at the beginning of this thread.
All your questions will be answered...


----------



## luis henrique

on the mod choke indultor, the result here was very different from the commented on various topics I read during that week, many say that the amplifier changes only at high volumes, here in medios volume DSL100, hear great change. channel 100w before sounded hard, now sounds 10x softer, the sag greatly increased, not reduced as the saying goes, for me the difference is too big, I'm getting used to the new timbre of my dsl changed about 40% for the better!


----------



## Micky

Please also remember, you are installing a choke designed for the circuitry of a 40W amp into a 100W.
The characteristics may be different than one might expect.


----------



## Bownse

Paul_pedro said:


> Im planning to buy a dsl 40c this summer, anything i should know about it? Quite a new guitar player, only started a few months ago. Also what pedals should i have? Ive already purchased a fullbore metal distortion and a wah pedal. I play guns and roses, metallica, led zepellin, avenged sevenfold and etc.



Spend your money on practice time. Wait for pedals until after you have the basics. You can spend a lot of money and time chasing after things that won't matter as much as practicing. {Trust me}


----------



## Paul_pedro

Bownse said:


> Spend your money on practice time. Wait for pedals until after you have the basics. You can spend a lot of money and time chasing after things that won't matter as much as practicing. {Trust me}


Well ofcourse, i spend most of my free time playing, but I want to plan my purchases a bit


----------



## Paul_pedro

Ok so if i had to choose between the Carvin v3m head + cab or a dsl40c wich one would
you recommend?


----------



## Reno D'Santie

Hi Paul_pedro,
It all depends on your needs,as for me DSL40c is plenty.
I drop it triode mode at church and pentode at the bars.
Mine is still fully stock after 3yrs, I use the classic channel (Crunch) mainly as the OD it is too much gain (20 yrs ago I would have never said that) but I still used for leads with my Jem 7v on Rocking on the free world and Running down a dream.
Very versatile amp, cheaper than a head + cab and will fit in the trunk of any car.
cheers


----------



## tazz3

Sorry for a dumb question do they make a head version ??


----------



## Micky

tazz3 said:


> Sorry for a dumb question do they make a head version ??


No


----------



## Igtar_Pro

Hi guys, I want to connect a Mesa Boogie V Twin Preamp directly to the return of the effect loop of my DSL40c, in other words:

Guitar=>Mesa Boogie V Twin Preamp==>Return of the Marshall DSL40c (The idea is to use another preamp)

http://www.mesaboogie.com/support/out-of-production/v-twin-preamp.html

This thing has a special output for connecting to a power amp (see the second output from left to right in the image below):


Now the question is, Can the amplifier be damaged by using only the power stage and the imput without anything connected?






Now the question is, Can the amplifier be damaged by using only the power stage and the imput without anything connected?


----------



## Paul_pedro

O


Reno D'Santie said:


> Hi Paul_pedro,
> It all depends on your needs,as for me DSL40c is plenty.
> I drop it triode mode at church and pentode at the bars.
> Mine is still fully stock after 3yrs, I use the classic channel (Crunch) mainly as the OD it is too much gain (20 yrs ago I would have never said that) but I still used for leads with my Jem 7v on Rocking on the free world and Running down a dream.
> Very versatile amp, cheaper than a head + cab and will fit in the trunk of any car.
> cheers


Ok thanks a lot!


----------



## Micky

Igtar_Pro said:


> Hi guys, I want to connect a Mesa Boogie V Twin Preamp directly to the return of the effect loop of my DSL40c, in other words:
> 
> Guitar=>Mesa Boogie V Twin Preamp==>Return of the Marshall DSL40c (The idea is to use another preamp)
> 
> http://www.mesaboogie.com/support/out-of-production/v-twin-preamp.html
> 
> This thing has a special output for connecting to a power amp (see the second output from left to right in the image below):
> 
> 
> Now the question is, Can the amplifier be damaged by using only the power stage and the imput without anything connected?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now the question is, Can the amplifier be damaged by using only the power stage and the imput without anything connected?


No. I have done safely it with other preamps.
You just have to remember you lose all control of the DSL40c. No volume control, you must use the preamp for that.


----------



## Igtar_Pro

Micky said:


> No. I have done safely it with other preamps.
> You just have to remember you lose all control of the DSL40c. No volume control, you must use the preamp for that.



Thanks for your answer. What preamp have you used? Was the tone nice?


----------



## BanditPanda

I;ve dug up an older EH Linear Power Boost and have read that it is better being run thru the effects loop.
Does that essentially mean that it hits the power tubes whereas in front of the amp it would hit the preamp tubes , thereby providing power tube O/D as opposed to Preamp O/D ?


----------



## Micky

BanditPanda said:


> I;ve dug up an older EH Linear Power Boost and have read that it is better being run thru the effects loop.
> Does that essentially mean that it hits the power tubes whereas in front of the amp it would hit the preamp tubes , thereby providing power tube O/D as opposed to Preamp O/D ?


Yes.


----------



## Micky

Igtar_Pro said:


> Thanks for your answer. What preamp have you used? Was the tone nice?


I have used everything from an iRig to a JVM. I used a rack system, a Fender, I even fed the output from a laptop into it.

The best tome surprisingly was from the DSL5c. I fed the FX out into the 40c FX in. Quite dynamic actually, I found myself using the guitar controls much more and even got more tones (different).


----------



## ken361

Gold lions 12ax7's are good strong tubes and works well in the v1, very dynamic! was using a tungsol for a year and a half. I had this for a few years now and put a lot of hours on it and still very strong. I did have some microphonic issues but I used the rubber ring and no issues yet so far. These are the gold pin ones that I paid 35 on ebay a couple years ago.


----------



## Len

Paul_pedro said:


> Ok so if i had to choose between the Carvin v3m head + cab or a dsl40c wich one would
> you recommend?


What sound are you after. The Carvin has a more modern, processed, sound.


----------



## G the wildman

Hi guys 

Got my new Boss Waza Craft Blues pedal today.

It adds something extra to my DSL 40c. A smoother OD, less flubber and quite a bit more sustain.

I will report again in a month or so when I have experimented.

TTFN

G


----------



## ken361

G the wildman said:


> Hi guys
> 
> Got my new Boss Waza Craft Blues pedal today.
> 
> It adds something extra to my DSL 40c. A smoother OD, less flubber and quite a bit more sustain.
> 
> I will report again in a month or so when I have experimented.
> 
> TTFN
> 
> G


Bet that strat on lead 1 gain 3 get some killer Hendrix Trower tones I know my MIM does!


----------



## G the wildman

ken361 said:


> Bet that strat on lead 1 gain 3 get some killer Hendrix Trower tones I know my MIM does!


Added a boss delay pedal today. Set really subtally leaving reverb at 12 oclock I am getting a really nice warm sound with subtle sustain. 

Amp is getting better by the day.


----------



## saxon68

Almost 300 pages Micky, historic thread!


----------



## Micky

With your post, on my system here it went to 300.

This is really a testament to everyone else who has contributed, it is not just me.
Threads come, and threads go. I am surprised this one has lasted as long as it has.
It has SOOOO much info it is kinda unweildy, but the search function works and if you dig deep you can find things.

My hat is off to everyone who has contributed to this epic thread!


----------



## Notes69

Congrats on 300. This thread won me over. I was in the market for something small...something I could practice with, and maybe jam if needed. I was intrigued by the CODE, which led me to this forum. I lurked for a while, then I found this thread on the 40c. Well, long story short, I'm now the proud owner of a DSL40c and I love it.

I read the first 50 pages very carefully and am picking up some great info....Wow, just 250 more pages to go. It's like a mystery novel, and there are some great characters. Micky, your the Man! I wish I had half the knowledge of the masters here...and I probably will by the time I get caught up. And for that, I thank you, *ALL*.

As it turns out, I don't even lug the head and cabinet to band practice anymore. This little thang Ripps. I doubt Ill be making many mods other than speaker selections, but I do like the idea of adding a single 12, or maybe a pair.

CODE What??

CIAO!!!


----------



## ken361

Cant beat it for the money!


----------



## Bownse

No new changes for mine in months. It's settled in and there to do the job. The mods to my Lester and the addition of a used strat have dialed in the sounds I wanted.


----------



## BanditPanda

BanditPanda said:


> I;ve dug up an older EH Linear Power Boost and have read that it is better being run thru the effects loop.
> Does that essentially mean that it hits the power tubes whereas in front of the amp it would hit the preamp tubes , thereby providing power tube O/D as opposed to Preamp O/D ?



Just as a follow up to say that the Power Boost didn't do what I wanted running thru the Effects loop so its now resting before my last OD pedal in front of the amp.


----------



## Reno D'Santie

I...AM...SPARTAN!!!

300 strong treads, Congrats to everybody.
I still have mine fully stock, I'm pretty sure a speaker upgrade will do wonders, but after 2 years and a 4 Ibanez (ART100, AX120, DarkStone DN500 and Jem7vWH) and a squire FrankenTELE (undergone quite of surgery), still find it to have a killer tone.
I complement my classic cruch (gain 5, bass 4, treb&mids 6, res 4, press 6 & TS out) with a TC darkmatter for fat saturated leads or TC spark mini for bluesy classic rock leads.
same gain level on OD1 for my Hairy tone...

cheers everyone


----------



## rlowe

Reno D'Santie said:


> I...AM...SPARTAN!!!
> 
> 300 strong treads, Congrats to everybody.
> I still have mine fully stock, I'm pretty sure a speaker upgrade will do wonders, but after 2 years and a 4 Ibanez (ART100, AX120, DarkStone DN500 and Jem7vWH) and a squire FrankenTELE (undergone quite of surgery), still find it to have a killer tone.
> I complement my classic cruch (gain 5, bass 4, treb&mids 6, res 4, press 6 & TS out) with a TC darkmatter for fat saturated leads or TC spark mini for bluesy classic rock leads.
> same gain level on OD1 for my Hairy tone...
> 
> cheers everyone


A new speaker upgrade will open the ears! IMO the V 30 Celestion does a really good job!


----------



## Hippie29

Hi guys..so my 1 month old dsl40c suddenly is making a loud hum noise when i power on, like the kind of noise when your instrument cable is not plugged into the guitar.. so i pulled out the tube closest to the jack and the noise disappeared. Whats wrong with it? Tia


----------



## stringer

Just checked my plate voltage 455 
Bias was 41.0 and 40.0 from factory..less than 1 hour play time.
I adjusted bias to 38.41 and 38.2..
Is this good.


----------



## CarlosPrex

Hi
I´ve just started a new thread about this, but on a second thought maybe this could be a faster way to get the info I need.

Today, while my band was rehearsing, my DSL40C stopped sounding. Everything seemed to be fine, power led on, preamp and power tubes normal glow...just no sound.
Took my amp home and found FS1 was blown.

Any suggestions, what should I do or check before installing a new fuse?

Thanks in advance

Carlos


----------



## rlowe

stringer said:


> Just checked my plate voltage 455
> Bias was 41.0 and 40.0 from factory..less than 1 hour play time.
> I adjusted bias to 38.41 and 38.2..
> Is this good.


Google Ted Weber bias calculator Yep, thats it! Your bias from factory was actually not too bad as, some dsl 40c's have ranged in the mid 50's


----------



## Bownse

stringer said:


> Just checked my plate voltage 455
> Bias was 41.0 and 40.0 from factory..less than 1 hour play time.
> I adjusted bias to 38.41 and 38.2..
> Is this good.



It depends on what your base plate voltage is since the target setting is calculated from the base plate V.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Hippie29 said:


> Hi guys..so my 1 month old dsl40c suddenly is making a loud hum noise when i power on, like the kind of noise when your instrument cable is not plugged into the guitar.. so i pulled out the tube closest to the jack and the noise disappeared. Whats wrong with it? Tia


Sounds like that first preamp tube, V1, is defective. Put in a new one and see.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

CarlosPrex said:


> Hi
> I´ve just started a new thread about this, but on a second thought maybe this could be a faster way to get the info I need.
> 
> Today, while my band was rehearsing, my DSL40C stopped sounding. Everything seemed to be fine, power led on, preamp and power tubes normal glow...just no sound.
> Took my amp home and found FS1 was blown.
> 
> Any suggestions, what should I do or check before installing a new fuse?
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> Carlos


Could be a power tube has died, they can still light up. Something killed the fuse. You could try replacing fuse and see but if it goes again, there's issues. Or try a new set of power tubes or try the current pair in a different amp. Maybe a tech type person has better knowledge of what FS1 is for...


----------



## stringer

rlowe said:


> Google Ted Weber bias calculator Yep, thats it! Your bias from factory was actually not too bad as some ranged in the mid 50's


Thanks ....rlown and brownse


----------



## Bownse

No problemo but there's no "R" in that name.


----------



## rlowe

stringer said:


> Thanks ....rlown and brownse


Mr. Grammar (spelling) here say's: no letter n in the name, but yes... their is an e.


----------



## G the wildman

How does one remove a post made in error.


----------



## G the wildman

Notes69 said:


> Congrats on 300. This thread won me over. I was in the market for something small...something I could practice with, and maybe jam if needed. I was intrigued by the CODE, which led me to this forum. I lurked for a while, then I found this thread on the 40c. Well, long story short, I'm now the proud owner of a DSL40c and I love it.
> 
> I read the first 50 pages very carefully and am picking up some great info....Wow, just 250 more pages to go. It's like a mystery novel, and there are some great characters. Micky, your the Man! I wish I had half the knowledge of the masters here...and I probably will by the time I get caught up. And for that, I thank you, *ALL*.
> 
> As it turns out, I don't even lug the head and cabinet to band practice anymore. This little thang Ripps. I doubt Ill be making many mods other than speaker selections, but I do like the idea of adding a single 12, or maybe a pair.
> 
> CODE What??
> 
> REPLY FROM G THE WILDMAN
> What 12 inch speaker would you add. I have the stock speaker as a spare and might put it in a single cab. What do you think? Where can I get a cab. Should I speak to Marshall? I only play at home will an extra speaker improve the sound at home or would it be superfluous?
> CIAO!!!


----------



## Notes69

G the Wildman, I haven't done any research as to what speaker I would use. I have an old single combo, which I have been thinking about turning into a single extension. My drummer is a heavy hitter, so I'm debating on my situation.
If you are just jamming at home, I would think you are fine without it. I think the DSL sounds great, and is plenty loud for home use.


----------



## Hippie29

My 2 month old dsl40c is busted. Drifting bias. I only use it 30 minutes a day. Any advice guys? I bought it as an overstock so returns is not possible, no warranty either


----------



## Hippie29

Duffy49 said:


> It is possible if you just hook up the Seventy/80 and sit it on the floor or lean it somewhere good, that you will be able to test it without actually mounting it; at least for the buzz/fuzz tone that you were hearing.
> 
> The speaker could have been not tightened down well, or possibly it was not seated exactly right on the baffle, or some other actual mounting problem that caused a sympathetic resonating buzz. It might actually still be good.
> 
> I did exactly like Micky did and put my Seventy/80 in another amp and the amp now sounds "way" better. I use it in my drum room.
> 
> On the other hand I got a Crate Palamino V32 two twelve combo, brand new from Crate and one of the speakers had a big, like five inch long, tear in it. It sounded terrible. I salvaged that speaker using the Elmer's glue and half water mixture, and the dipping sheets of toilet paper in it and then carefully applying the lightly soaked toilet paper sheets over the rip in the cone. I applied several sheets of the glue covered toilet paper sheets on the cone and let them dry. This turned out to be a great solution and the speaker sounds great, believe it or not. It has been very durable as well. It takes some practice to get the toilet paper sheets just barely covered with the glue so that it doesn't disintegrate into "pulp". You want the sheets to maintain their formation so you can sheet them out over the rip. It works very well.
> 
> Good luck with that speaker. I wouldn't give up on it. It is actually a very good, inexpensive, Celestion speaker.




Ive done this to my v30 worked like magic.


----------



## Hippie29

My bias jumps from 38 to 170 after playing it for just 10 minutes then followed by a loud hum, then no more signal from my guitar. Any solution? My amp.is only 2 months old and i couldnt return it, no warranty neither. Sad sad


----------



## Micky

Hippie29 said:


> My bias jumps from 38 to 170 after playing it for just 10 minutes then followed by a loud hum, then no more signal from my guitar. Any solution? My amp.is only 2 months old and i couldnt return it, no warranty neither. Sad sad


Put in you spare set of finals and try again, to see if there is a bad tube...


----------



## G the wildman

Hi guys,

My DSL 40c started to sound a bit flabby and harsh. So I checked the bias and it was 37 and 35. I equalised it at 35 an checked that the pre amp tubes were seated properly. It sounds fine now. Is such a small difference in bias capable of spoiling the sound. 

If so how often should I check it. Or is it only necessary when the sound changes for the worse?

G


----------



## saxon68

Pasting from another thread, fits here for new guys considering the amps. Couple years old on my DSL40C, recorded with my iPhone 4S:




All bone stock, after the 70/80 speaker broke in. The only change was an EXH 12AX7 to replace the one that blew 2 days after I got the amp. No pedals, just onboard reverb.


----------



## Bownse

Clean that room, mister!


----------



## Jethro Rocker

G the wildman said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> My DSL 40c started to sound a bit flabby and harsh. So I checked the bias and it was 37 and 35. I equalised it at 35 an checked that the pre amp tubes were seated properly. It sounds fine now. Is such a small difference in bias capable of spoiling the sound.
> 
> If so how often should I check it. Or is it only necessary when the sound changes for the worse?
> 
> G


That doesn't seem like it should really affect it that bad.. I wouldn't check it unless it sounds poo, they aren't known for bias drift...


----------



## Len

Hippie29 said:


> My 2 month old dsl40c is busted. Drifting bias. I only use it 30 minutes a day. Any advice guys? I bought it as an overstock so returns is not possible, no warranty either


I'd take it to a tech.


----------



## Bownse

Len said:


> I'd take it to a tech.



If it's only 2 months old, it's under warranty. Get them to fix or replace it on their dime.


----------



## Len

Bownse said:


> If it's only 2 months old, it's under warranty. Get them to fix or replace it on their dime.


The poster said there's no warranty.


----------



## G the wildman

Len said:


> The poster said there's no warranty.


Contact Marshall by phone. They are so helpful.


----------



## Bownse

Len said:


> The poster said there's no warranty.



I missed that. Skimming too quickly, I guess. My bad.


----------



## rlowe

Noise becoming a problem in your signal chain?


----------



## Bownse

So, are you using it's affects loop and bypassing the one in the 40c?


----------



## rlowe

Bownse said:


> So, are you using it's affects loop and bypassing the one in the 40c?


I believe you can do that as I just got mine in and need a little time to adjust. In a 10 minute session (man have I been busy), the inline kills noise dead and $60.00 aprx. not too bad!


----------



## Bownse

After much Youtube viewing, my Amazon same-day delivery arrived last night. As with most of these things, explicit instructions are lacking in detail.

1. There's an input and output.
2. There's an effects loop (send and return).

Can you take the loop and route it through the loop of the amp? I suspect not. It would appear that the loop leaves the pedal, comes back in and then routes out through the output.

Guitar into INPUT
OUTPUT to Amp (and ungated pedals)
SEND to the chain of noisy pedals and then back into the RETURN of the gate

The issue is that one of the noisiest pedals I have is a phase shifter but I like it's impact best on the amps affects loop (instead of the mains). Since it needs gating, it will have to go into the front of the amp.

The controls over release, thresh(old), and reduction mean that it can be dialed in to be less intrusive (time-based decay into the clamp allows for a longer sustain if that's your goal).

I can see some play time with this today to go back through my current chain config and moving pedals around for the new config.

---update---

That was easier than I expected. Put it in line right after the Sonic Research Turbo Tuner ST-300 so the tuner cut-out will work the whole chain without any coloration from anything else.

Guitar-tuner-Silencer-amp

Everything else through the loop and back into the Silencer.

Silencer Send-pedals-Silencer Return

After turning on each pedal and listening only for it, there was some noise in each one. The worst 2 were the SP400 Super Phase Shifter and the Metal Muff. When I went in, I thought it would be the SP400 that would be loudest but it was the MM instead. Seems the sine wave style of the noise from the SP400 made it more noticable to me than the constant noise of the MM. The other pedals had their own (lower) contributions too (TC Electronics Dreamscape and a Behringer Hellbabe HB01 Wa). The Dreamscape had the least noise of the lot with the HB01 second. Because of my lack of (couldn't find) short patch cables, I left the HB01 out of the semi-final config (after testing) because I use it least. The Dreamscape adds a great bit of "shine" when needed.

Current settings are:
Release: 12 o'clock
Reduction: 10 o'clock
Thresh: 11 o'clock

Nothing is going into the DSL40C affects loop now.


----------



## DreamTommy

masap said:


> Hello everyone! been a long time since i have been here. I am still EXTREMELY happy with my DSL 40C. I did end up replacing all the tubes and Martimus Maximus took great care of me. Amp sounds amazing! I use it plugged into my ext cab with 2 cream backs and 2 V30's. Space has been an issue for me and i thought about converting my DSL to a head. I did some searching and sure enough other members had already done it. So I just thought i would share my results for others and add my 2 cents to the community. I ever so carefully sliced my cabinet in half and glued it back together. I also used 6 flat metal bracket to attach the two halfs back together so i could work on it while the glue was drying. The only other thing i needed was a piece of wood to fill the void below the panel as the original front piece didn't provide spare wood without the speaker hole in the way. I painted the wood black and wrapped it with the cloth and mounted the Marshall logo to it. The back piece i ended up cutting 5 1/2 inches from the top and screwed it right back on - it looks perfect and i have the elongated hole in the back - not the mesh grill half. I left a total of 7 1/2 inches (Inside diameter) so i can just pull the tubes out. I am extremely happy with the results and the space saving. Project took me about 4 hrs total.
> 
> Here is a shot of my DSL40H:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Until the next time
> 
> masap


Hello, so interesting what you did to the DSL40C. It looks like the head is sitting on a 1960V (Straight cab), but the 1960V straight cab is 770 mm wide and the DSL 40C is 620 mm wide. But in this shot, it looks like the cabinet is just a little wider, rather a lot wider, like the picture in my profile image. So interesting! Very cool looking too!


----------



## DreamTommy

Toni said:


> I wanted (and still want) to buy a CODE for practice, but it is getting delayed every month. Since I need an amp for apartment practice, I am thinking about getting a DSL. I tested a DSL15C at my local music store and liked it quite a bit. I couldn't get a good impression of how good the amp sounds at low volumes since the ambient noise in the store was too much.
> 
> My problem now is that I don't know which DSL to pick. There isn't a huge price difference between the DSL5C (~550€) and the DSL40C (~700€), so price is not really a deciding factor. The DSL5C _should_ be better suited for apartment practice. However, I dislike that I'd have to buy a separate reverb pedal. The DSL15C has reverb but no effects loop. Finally, the DSL40C has everything, and it's big cab might produce the best sound. Does it work well enough at low volumes (= low TV volumes, normal conversation volumes)?



Hello, I have the DSL40C and really enjoy it. I purchased the DSL40C after much research and test-drives. The effects loop sold me! I would have purchased a DSL40H if it existed, because I do have a 412 cabinet. Aside from The 5 and 15 watt units having lower wattage and not a huge price difference going from the DSL15C to 40C, the loop is important if you want to use effects after the pre-amp stage (typically time-based effects) or Amp Models in a 4-cable method, that also avoids stacking pre-amps and coloring your sound. As you can see, by my profile picture, the combo sits on top of the cabinet and the 40C was the choice. The DSL100H was too much power and the cost seemed a little extravagant for me personally. I am using the amp combo as a 5x12. I get sound out of the cab and combo and it sounds big. You just have to be concerned about the correct ohm load. I also am testing pedal boards. A unit like the Digitech RP1000 (not only an effects unit with stompbox styling, but an amp modeler and full-blown switching system) gives you the ability to use your amp sound, the modeler and all kinds of effects in a flexible system. Check out 4 cable method with an item like RP1000 on youtube.


----------



## wolfpack

Half power/20 watt setting & 16 ohm speaker = can still use 16ohm tap or have to use the 8ohm ?


----------



## Micky

wolfpack said:


> Half power/20 watt setting & 16 ohm speaker = can still use 16ohm tap or have to use the 8ohm ?


Yes, use 16-ohm setting no matter what power level for a 16-ohm speaker.


----------



## Bownse

Yep. Unless running 2 16 ohm speakers at the same time. Then amp to 8.


----------



## BluesTone

Hi everyone. I'm planning on getting a DSL40C Limited Edition Vintage, and I'm wondering how a 2015 Clapton Strat will sound through it. I play mostly blues stuff, is this a good choice of amp for my guitar?


----------



## Micky

BluesTone said:


> Hi everyone. I'm planning on getting a DSL40C Limited Edition Vintage, and I'm wondering how a 2015 Clapton Strat will sound through it. I play mostly blues stuff, is this a good choice of amp for my guitar?


Yup. Great choice. Amp is incredibly versatile.


----------



## ken361

BluesTone said:


> Hi everyone. I'm planning on getting a DSL40C Limited Edition Vintage, and I'm wondering how a 2015 Clapton Strat will sound through it. I play mostly blues stuff, is this a good choice of amp for my guitar?


I just got a new American strat with the fat 50's pickups, cleans are amazing!crunch is real good. Lead 1 red was pretty bright so im going to put my old v1 tube to tame it some. Lead 2 even warmer for more high gain stuff just keep the treble and presence low at around 3. Your going to dig it!


----------



## Bownse

I picked up a used Strat HSS FSR (Mexican) and it sounds great through my 40c.


----------



## saxon68

Bownse said:


> Clean that room, mister!



LoL it was in the process of being cleaned, bed was stripped and why there is a large blanket on the floor, and the hamper was pulled out of the closet for laundry also. I think I was getting a reaming after that for taking up space


----------



## rlowe

saxon68 said:


> Pasting from another thread, fits here for new guys considering the amps. Couple years old on my DSL40C, recorded with my iPhone 4S:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All bone stock, after the 70/80 speaker broke in. The only change was an EXH 12AX7 to replace the one that blew 2 days after I got the amp. No pedals, just onboard reverb.



Glad you like it! I did too after break-in and tube changes until I installed a Vintage 30 and woops! my ears agreed V 30.


----------



## saxon68

rlowe said:


> Glad you like it! I did too after break-in and tube changes until I installed a Vintage 30 and woops! my ears agreed V 30.



I have a V30 in my Jet City cabinet, use with my EVH 5150 III. BTW they make amazing cabs, real ply, recessed metal handles, etc. mine is one of the USA models. Anyhow, I have listened to a few side by sides with V30 and greenbacks, and I "think" my ears prefer the greenback for the music I like. I plan to get one at some point and A/B them, for a couple weeks at a time for each. Who knows, may end up getting a 2x12 and load both in there! I don't dislike what I have now, and it's a great sound to my ears. I think I'd also like to get another DSL40C at some point in the future.


----------



## Micky

The Celestion V30, the WGS Vet30 and other similar speakers are a great chouce for this amp. They allow for tight bass (not muddy or muffled) as well as great mids while taming the highs a bit. Personally I like this speaker in EVERY amp... I have one in my DSL5c and I love it.

I also would like to get another 40c sometime, just to have one that is stock. Mine is modded so heavy now it is nothing like the original...


----------



## ken361

Bownse said:


> I picked up a used Strat HSS FSR (Mexican) and it sounds great through my 40c.


Tweak the poles pieces on the humbucker raise them to each string sounds the smoothest! Not a bad sounding guitar. My new one really dynamic and resonates really good unplugged and plugged in.


----------



## ken361

ken361 said:


> Tweak the poles pieces on the humbucker raise them to each string sounds the smoothest! Not a bad sounding guitar. My new one really dynamic and resonates really good unplugged and plugged in.


But im using single coils now, until I can afford more gear


----------



## Notes69

I share a band room with another band (it's their room), so I volunteered to do some spring cleaning. There is a collection, as in dozens, of dead, dying, or destroyed equipment. I was given permission to toss it all. I noticed a Marshall MG100DFX. So I thought I would take it home and see if I can fix it. I was not familiar with the amp, so after reading such poor reviews I decided not to invest my time.

I cleaned it up, and put my DSL40 on top of it...a nice surprise , it's the same size. So I'm debating if I should use it as a single extension. The speaker works, but I wont use it. My plan would be to disconnect any power so there wont be any accidental destruction and put in a new speaker.

Just curious what others would do. If I used two different speakers, would I still get a good tone? (I'm partial to the V30) Would you put the new speaker in the DSL and use the stock speaker for an extension ? I know I need to pay attention to OHMS, I haven't got that far in the planning stage. I'm not as advanced as the experts here, so I just want to get the ball rolling. Otherwise, it will just be a shelf for my DSL. From a practical standpoint, I do need an extension, so this would fit my needs perfectly. My DSL is bone stock. Thanks for any input.


*The Trash heap, with a hidden jem.*





*A perfect fit for my DSL40c*


----------



## Tomteriffic

Greetings, folks! New old geezer on the block here. I've played, borrowed and "had the use of" a number of Marshalls, going back to the Plexi days, but the DSL40C is the first one I've actually owned. I've read through a bunch of posts (admittedly not all 300-something pages, but a bunch) And I have a couple of questions:

The first is really a couple of questions rolled into one. I'm confused by the manual with regard to extension speakers, speaker impedance and such. For one thing, it says that if you have something plugged into the 16 ohm jack, the other two (8 ohm) won't work. I gather from reading here that that isn't the case, that an extension speaker is just peachy. I've also gathered that the amp doesn't want to see a total impedance of less than 8 ohms. So... it seems to me that the only way to get an 8 ohm load on the amp is to plug a 16 ohm load into an 8 ohm jack. So far, I'm loving this amp and I'd hate to let all of its magic smoke out. So what's the deal back there? The reason I ask is that I have a 16 ohm 2 x 12 that is dying to get a piece of the action.

Second, and I know that this is subjective but... The Stock 70/80 speaker strikes me as being pretty fizzy. It's not broken in yet (I've only had the amp for a couple of weeks), but I'm looking into options for smoothing out the top end. I've seen recommendations of a V30 and a WGS Veteran and an Eminence Texas Heat (which kind of surprised me) as options. Any others? Alas, I have any number of 12's around here but they're all 8 ohm.

Any and all advice welcome, thanks for letting me into the club.

Oh, and Micky, having seen your admonishment in some earlier posts, I went straight from here and checked in at the front desk.


----------



## rlowe

Tomteriffic said:


> Greetings, folks! New old geezer on the block here. I've played, borrowed and "had the use of" a number of Marshalls, going back to the Plexi days, but the DSL40C is the first one I've actually owned. I've read through a bunch of posts (admittedly not all 300-something pages, but a bunch) And I have a couple of questions:
> 
> The first is really a couple of questions rolled into one. I'm confused by the manual with regard to extension speakers, speaker impedance and such. For one thing, it says that if you have something plugged into the 16 ohm jack, the other two (8 ohm) won't work. I gather from reading here that that isn't the case, that an extension speaker is just peachy. I've also gathered that the amp doesn't want to see a total impedance of less than 8 ohms. So... it seems to me that the only way to get an 8 ohm load on the amp is to plug a 16 ohm load into an 8 ohm jack. So far, I'm loving this amp and I'd hate to let all of its magic smoke out. So what's the deal back there? The reason I ask is that I have a 16 ohm 2 x 12 that is dying to get a piece of the action.
> 
> Second, and I know that this is subjective but... The Stock 70/80 speaker strikes me as being pretty fizzy. It's not broken in yet (I've only had the amp for a couple of weeks), but I'm looking into options for smoothing out the top end. I've seen recommendations of a V30 and a WGS Veteran and an Eminence Texas Heat (which kind of surprised me) as options. Any others? Alas, I have any number of 12's around here but they're all 8 ohm.
> 
> Any and all advice welcome, thanks for letting me into the club.
> 
> Oh, and Micky, having seen your admonishment in some earlier posts, I went straight from here and checked in at the front desk.


 Here is a fairly decent video speaker comparison.


----------



## Micky

_{de3fr4


Tomteriffic said:


> Greetings, folks! New old geezer on the block here. I've played, borrowed and "had the use of" a number of Marshalls, going back to the Plexi days, but the DSL40C is the first one I've actually owned. I've read through a bunch of posts (admittedly not all 300-something pages, but a bunch) And I have a couple of questions:
> 
> The first is really a couple of questions rolled into one. I'm confused by the manual with regard to extension speakers, speaker impedance and such. For one thing, it says that if you have something plugged into the 16 ohm jack, the other two (8 ohm) won't work. I gather from reading here that that isn't the case, that an extension speaker is just peachy. I've also gathered that the amp doesn't want to see a total impedance of less than 8 ohms. So... it seems to me that the only way to get an 8 ohm load on the amp is to plug a 16 ohm load into an 8 ohm jack. So far, I'm loving this amp and I'd hate to let all of its magic smoke out. So what's the deal back there? The reason I ask is that I have a 16 ohm 2 x 12 that is dying to get a piece of the action.
> 
> Second, and I know that this is subjective but... The Stock 70/80 speaker strikes me as being pretty fizzy. It's not broken in yet (I've only had the amp for a couple of weeks), but I'm looking into options for smoothing out the top end. I've seen recommendations of a V30 and a WGS Veteran and an Eminence Texas Heat (which kind of surprised me) as options. Any others? Alas, I have any number of 12's around here but they're all 8 ohm.
> 
> Any and all advice welcome, thanks for letting me into the club.
> 
> Oh, and Micky, having seen your admonishment in some earlier posts, I went straight from here and checked in at the front desk.


I am glad SOMEONE is reading other parts of this thread... Not just the new stuff.

Yes, when you plug something into the 16-ohm jack, the others are disabled. This is by design.
A 16-ohm extension cab as well as the 16-ohm combo speaker can be used simultaneously when plugged into the 2X8-ohm jacks. (8-ohm total load)
An 8-ohm only speaker can be used by plugging into one of the 8-ohm jacks.

And I don't admonish anyone, I might bully them a little. When you formally introduce yourself, it gives others on the site who do not frequent this thread a chance to learn a little bit about you. Believe it or not, there are members here who have NEVER ventured into the darkness of this thread...

Just about any speaker will work well in this amp, it is extremely versatile and sometimes very dependent on the guitar and pickups you use. For some the stock speaker brightens up a dull and heavy guitar. Others with let's say, a Strat or Tele may find it too bright and are unable to tame the treble or even what some might call 'ice-picky fizz' that a single-coil might deliver. This is where changing the speaker may help, speakers such as the Celestion V30 and the WGS Veteran 30 allow the bass to punch right thru, as well as the mids and can actually roll off or better define the highs. This is an extremely subjective aspect of the tone this amp can produce, and there are many other ways to tweak or fine-tune things to your liking.

You can easily swap speakers in this amp, and to use 8-ohm speakers isn't too much of a disadvantage, especially if you can find one that you like. With a 16-ohm speaker in the combo, you can easily plug in an extension and use both at the same time. With an 8-ohm speaker you can't. You are limited in that respect, but you never know, you might like it. Sounds like you have some to test. I will bet you can easily find a combination you like, especially if you take the time to dial in the EQ to your liking. Have at it and let us know!


----------



## Tomteriffic

Thankee kindly! As it happened, I plugged in a Strat-ish thing last night, but it's equipped with supermegamongo hot rail type pcikups and is pretty much on the dark side, tonally. The opposite of what you'd expect out of a Strat, really. The 70/80 liked it lots better but the Treble and Presence controls were still pretty well all the way to the left. Still some more break-in is in order. Taking it to a little outdoor folk 'n' roll thing this evening. I want to hear it at some distance in a group setting as well before I make any kind of decision.

Muchos thankyous for setting me straight on the speaker impedance!


----------



## ken361

Here's my new strat started of on the bridge and went into the neck and then lead 2, the cleans got cut off I didnt have enough space but sounds awesome. Little sloppy though


----------



## G the wildman

ken361 said:


> Here's my new strat started of on the bridge and went into the neck and then lead 2, the cleans got cut off I didnt have enough space but sounds awesome. Little sloppy though



Same colour scheme as mine Ken. I have the delux. Try Albatross on Green clean or light crunch on neck. Awesome.


----------



## BanditPanda

Hi all. I am looking for a 1 x 12 extension cabinet ( empty ) with the same specs as my DSL40C . The 40DSL will rest on top of it. Anyone with some suggestions / recommendations please?


----------



## Bownse

The guy that's making my cabs also has 1x10 and 1x12 extension cabs.

My project is this:

Keep the OEM cab so it can be restored if needed.

Get 3rd party (bare) cabs for the head and a 2x12 extension cab. Move the OEM and my swapped speaker into the external cab after finishing them out (tolex and other assorted hardware). It's make the head easier to manage for biasing or simply lugging. I was pondering open or closed back on the extension cab so went closed; knowing I can go back to the builder and get an open back panel if needed.

Materials Sources:

Head cab
http://www.ebay.com/itm/rawcabs-pin...rshall-DSL-40C-chassis-project-/291793667143?

Extension cab
http://www.ebay.com/itm/301986611349

Tolex and hardware:
http://www.reliablehardware.com/
Speaker clothe, Tolex, Logos (the DSL40C is a 9" logo), etc.:
http://www.thevintagesound.com/store/grillcloth-marshall-style-grill-cloth-c-9_36.html
The front baffle of the 40C has piping, around the outer edge. Anyone have a source?

Found some! Any others? http://www.speakerbuildersupply.com/Genuine-Marshall-large-white-piping-p/pmtwf.htm

Once I get it all together, I'll document how it goes.

--update 6/23/2016--

Got a call AND an e-mail (with pics) from Rawcabs (sorrycharley). He said always wants customers to approve the work before shipping. Nice guy. They head out today.


----------



## BanditPanda

Thanks Bownse. I have sent a message to sorrycharly


----------



## ken361

G the wildman said:


> Same colour scheme as mine Ken. I have the delux. Try Albatross on Green clean or light crunch on neck. Awesome.


I ended up putting back in the gold lion in the v1, more fatter tone. Position 4 is insane on the DSL with gain 3 plus, so dynamic and fat!


----------



## ken361

G the wildman said:


> Same colour scheme as mine Ken. I have the delux. Try Albatross on Green clean or light crunch on neck. Awesome.


Using the red channel along with the green? I could prb use a boost the fat 50's aren't that strong


----------



## Chris00

Hello everyone,
I am experiencing a lot of trouble with my DSL40CST. It has worked perfectly for about 6 months but the past few days it has been unusable. There is no noise when I simply power it on, but once the standby switch is flipped there is a loud popping/crackling noise. It happens every time I turn the amp on, and I am concerned that something very major is wrong. Is it just a bad preamp tube? (I have some spares but was worried that putting one in would void the warranty).
Thank you,
Chris


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Could be pre or power tube. If warranty service is nearby, take it in. Otherwise you could try changing V1 or V4 pre tube. That shouldn't void warrranty.


----------



## Bownse

Outside of some reasonable time (30 days?) Tubes should be thought of like tires or oil in a car; wear items that are the responsibility of the owner.


----------



## Len

Chris00 said:


> Hello everyone,
> I am experiencing a lot of trouble with my DSL40CST. It has worked perfectly for about 6 months but the past few days it has been unusable. There is no noise when I simply power it on, but once the standby switch is flipped there is a loud popping/crackling noise. It happens every time I turn the amp on, and I am concerned that something very major is wrong. Is it just a bad preamp tube? (I have some spares but was worried that putting one in would void the warranty).
> Thank you,
> Chris


Cracking noise usually means a bad tube or dirty tube socket.


----------



## rlowe

Chris00 said:


> Hello everyone,
> I am experiencing a lot of trouble with my DSL40CST. It has worked perfectly for about 6 months but the past few days it has been unusable. There is no noise when I simply power it on, but once the standby switch is flipped there is a loud popping/crackling noise. It happens every time I turn the amp on, and I am concerned that something very major is wrong. Is it just a bad preamp tube? (I have some spares but was worried that putting one in would void the warranty).
> Thank you,
> Chris


Yes, after 5 months of enjoying the amp's sweet sound my tubes went south (crackling, loud popping when amp was turned on and whilst playing). replaced all preamp tubes no, not it. Replaced the power tubes yes, problem solved. I also now use Caig deoxit 5 to clean and improve contact between tube pins and socket.


----------



## G the wildman

ken361 said:


> Using the red channel along with the green? I could prb use a boost the fat 50's aren't that strong


Ken. My tutor, a good guitarist, gets some cool sounds with my Strat on red 1 gain on 10. Personally I think that is a bit much but of course the guy has good fingers.

I have all Marshall stock pre amp tubes. They suit my ears and I am trying hard to stop tone chasing and just enjoy the amp.

Did you keep your Gibson or trade it?

G


----------



## ken361

G the wildman said:


> Ken. My tutor, a good guitarist, gets some cool sounds with my Strat on red 1 gain on 10. Personally I think that is a bit much but of course the guy has good fingers.
> 
> I have all Marshall stock pre amp tubes. They suit my ears and I am trying hard to stop tone chasing and just enjoy the amp.
> 
> Did you keep your Gibson or trade it?
> 
> G


I traded it,it was starting to wear pretty good on the frets and I dont have the money for a level/crown now But plan to get something like that in the future. Im really digging the strat neck it fit my hands really good.
and not a heavy guitar. I had a guy check my setup yesterday and re adjusted everything so I will get a chance to play loud tomorrow and see how it sound. Neck tones on the red 1 is awesome and the bridge is pretty decent. Cleans are awesome too. I recorded some samples again today. For the bridge I like the gain at 7 lead 1 and lead 2 gain at 3 and 3 on the neck lead 1


----------



## caiokiss

Hello everyone.
I've been playing my DSL40C for a few years, but only at home. Last month I started to play at gigs again and I was very pleased with the sound of it at the stage (I've changed the original speaker for a Creamback, and the original tubes for tung-sol on the preamp and JJ on the power amp) . I received lot's of compliments on my tone! The other guitar player on the band has a 100W half stack (a George Lynch signature model from Randall) and the DSL40C has enough power and tone to compete with it at a small venue!

But I found something odd yesterday with the fx loop and I would like to ask for some information. 

We are having problems with the neighbors complaining during rehearsals, so we wanna try to use an eletronic drum set at rehearsals, with all instruments plugged direct in the mixing console, and everybore using headphones. My idea was to use the following route:

guitar -> amp in -> fx send -> cab simulator (AMT chamaleon) -> mix console

I thought that way there would be no sound from the amplifier speaker, since the signal is going out from the fx loop and never returing (the FX loop switch is on), but the sound is coming from the speaker. Since it's a series FX loop, it was not supposed to have any sound comming from the speakers, right? Any ideas of what could be going on?


P.S.: sorry for the bad english.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

You could use electronic drums turned down through your monitors and simply turn tbe amps down...easy, less setup...
It isn't a speaker mute, you still get signal to speaker with loop out. Why, I dunno...but it does.


----------



## caiokiss

Jethro Rocker said:


> You could use electronic drums turned down through your monitors and simply turn tbe amps down...easy, less setup...
> It isn't a speaker mute, you still get signal to speaker with loop out. Why, I dunno...but it does.



So, it's normal? You still get sound from the speaker when you use the fx loop send, even if you don't return it through the fx return?? Doesn't it means it's actually a parallel loop? According to the manual it was supposed to be a series loop...


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## Jethro Rocker

It is. Mine works that way as well. It's actually nice because you can run out to a board or what have you and still hear your speaker. That's irrelevant to me. You must have monitors set up in order to hear vocals if it was "too loud". So make it simple - you already have electronic drums, just turn everything down! How hard can it be? Make it simple, forget headphones, it's hard to communicate that way. Just because he has a 100 w half stack, doesn't mean it can't be turned down to a reasonable level.


----------



## caiokiss

Jethro Rocker said:


> It is. Mine works that way as well. It's actually nice because you can run out to a board or what have you and still hear your speaker. That's irrelevant to me. You must have monitors set up in order to hear vocals if it was "too loud". So make it simple - you already have electronic drums, just turn everything down! How hard can it be? Make it simple, forget headphones, it's hard to communicate that way. Just because he has a 100 w half stack, doesn't mean it can't be turned down to a reasonable level.



Sure, it's simpler and will probably sound better!

The problem is, since I already have the cab simulator, I was hopping I could pratice at home late at night using it with headphones...


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Cab sim might work well at a gig, for late night I guess just run volume really low....


----------



## Jethro Rocker

BanditPanda said:


> Hi all. I am looking for a 1 x 12 extension cabinet ( empty ) with the same specs as my DSL40C . The 40DSL will rest on top of it. Anyone with some suggestions / recommendations please?


I don't know of any others, got your PM but "Reply" doesn't show up....?


----------



## c00lkatz

Hello all. Long time lurker, first time poster.

Well after SEVERAL modeling amps (Fender Mustang I v2, Line 6 Flextone III XL, Line 6 Firehawk FX) and tube amps (Orange Micro Terror & Micro Dark, Ibanez TSA15H, Orange Tiny Terror Combo, Blackheart Little Giant (PTP modded), Blackstar HT20, Orange Dark Terror, Egnater Tweaker 15, Carvin V3M - all of them sold/traded/returned), I am now the proud owner of a new DSL40C (less than a couple weeks old). It didn't stay stock for long thanks to this thread. So much for the warranty lol. But I think I've FINALLY found "the one" and didn't mind throwing some money and time at it this go around.

First thing I did was swap out the Celestion 70/80 with a Celestion Vintage 30 (well broken in, out of a PPC112). Then I checked the bias. It was at ~38.5mV and ~42mV - not as bad as others have found. Set it to ~38mV, then it was off to clip out C19. Though a VAST improvement, I still wasn't 100% happy with the tone. Decided to try some new tubes (mine had the Marshall branded red logo "JJ" ECC83 in the preamp and TAD labeled (Marshall branded) EL34 from the factory, brand new out of the box). I ran through various tubes I had trying to find a tone I like - EHX 12AY7/6072A, RCA 5751 Black Plate, JAN Philips 12AT7WC, JJ ECC83S, Tung-Sol RI 12AX7, all used with the stock EL34. Tried them all in various spots, but couldn't find the tone I was looking for. The Tung-Sol was too bright and shrill, liked the JJ but only had one of them, and the lower gain tubes all seemed to neuter the amp no matter where I put them.

Based on reading the thread (and not willing to shell out hundreds for NOS), I ordered Mullard RI EL34 for the power section, JJ ECC803S Gold Pin 12AX7 in V1, JJ ECC803S in V2/V3, and Sovtek 12AX7LPS in V4/PI (ordered from TubeDepot.com and specified low noise/microphonics - highly recommended). I set the bias to 37.3mV based on a plate voltage of 469V. BIG IMPROVEMENT! This thing started to sound how a Marshall should sound at that point. The cleans were great, the crunch was awesome, and had plenty of non-fizzy gain. I was seriously impressed (and surprised) with how different it sounded. BUT along with tubes I had also ordered some Mallory 150 and Orange Drop caps to mod the board. I was very happy where it was, but ever the tinkerer, I decided to continue with the planned upgrades since I already bought it. I also bought the Classic Tone OT and Choke to install.

And finally some pics of the process!

Ready to start working:




Board successfully removed:




C4 replaced with a Silver Mica 5% 100pF (stock value):




Decided to add some capacitance (previously removed C19) - changed to a Silver Mica 100pF 5% 500V - this was later changed to a Silver Mica 22pf 5% 500V. Didn't like 100pF at all, and the 22pF seems to have a little "something" over no cap at all (probably all in my head lol).




Just some random pics after changing the rest of the caps:


----------



## c00lkatz

Classic Tone 40-18058 3Hy Choke Installed:




Classic Tone 40-18025 OT installed:




All buttoned up:










I did make a new speaker cable out of some 14AWG and an Amphenol 1/4" connector so I can hook it up to my Rivera Rock Crusher power attenuator. Using a Mogami speaker cable to go from amp to input on attenuator, then the new cable plugs into the speaker out on the attenuator. Had to do a new cable, as the old one was too short to reach the attenuator. Nice thing about it is if I do get another head, it will be easy to use the V30 in the DSL as the "cab" either with or without the attenuator. No I don't pay the exorbitant amount of money Mogami wants for their "lifetime warranty" - I buy the cable from Redco and solder on Neutrik or Amphenol connectors - about 1/4 of the price.







I did check the bias again (slight adjustment needed) after all OT/choke/cap swap. I'm not the best at describing the little subtle intricacies of tone, but all I can say is this is now by far the best amp I've owned, hands down. All the others I mentioned before don't compare to this one, especially after the mods. All I've wanted lately is a small variety of guitars, a single amp, and a nice selection of effects. The guitars and effects I have taken care of, but have yet to find that one versatile amp that can do almost anything. Now with this amp, and the combination of mods, I think I can finally sit back and play instead of tinker...for now lol.


----------



## BanditPanda

Thanks for this. I actually had to Google what chokes and OT's do for an amplifier!
So if I understand correctly a choke is an addition to an amp and the OT was a replacement to the existing OT is the DSL40C. So obviously in your opinion the stock OT was an inferior product and the Classic Tone an upgrade, which I have learned can significantly improve an amps tone.


----------



## c00lkatz

I'm not the first to do these mods, earlier in the thread you can find more details about these mods (from Micky, DSMer, MarshallDog, and others), which is where I obtained the inspiration.

Both are replacements. The choke replaces R111 (the large white resistor). Both are upgrades to the existing components and give a more vintage sound and feel to the amp. However, the differences with the cap replacements, choke, and OT are more just icing on the cake (subtle). The speaker swap, C19 mod (play with the value), and tubes were much more noticeable and plenty satisfying. To be honest the only reason I continued with the cap/choke/OT swap after doing "the big three" was because I already bought them, as the amp sounded awesome at that point. But the OT swap is a little louder (50W vs 40W), provides more headroom, and also provides a 4-ohm output if you want to install an additional jack (I didn't, don't currently have a need for it). If I were to do it over again, I would do the speaker, C19, tubes, and maybe the OT swap for the added headroom and 4-ohm out, but probably wouldn't do the choke and caps again. The caps are relatively cheap but the labor makes it not worth the trouble in my opinion, took me about 6 hours to do the caps/choke/OT (with plenty of breaks and taking my time).


----------



## kevmoe

Hello all .I just picked up a brand new DSL 40 c.with the creme back speaker from an online dealer..The locals didn't have the amp with the creme back..i have it about 4 days now trying to as much as possible to break in speaker..so far sounds pretty good with all my guitars,Gibson ,prs,fender,Ibanez ..my only concern or complaint is the amps a bit noisy. Sizzle ..more so on drive channel ..and I am getting some popping ..annoying..my questions Are.what causes the popping.?is the sizzle normal for these amps.?.do I have to take amp in for biasing.?.again amp was shipped..possible a tube loosened ??? Thank you in advance your replies much appreciated


----------



## BanditPanda

c00lkatz said:


> I'm not the first to do these mods, earlier in the thread you can find more details about these mods (from Micky, DSMer, MarshallDog, and others), which is where I obtained the inspiration.
> 
> Both are replacements. The choke replaces R111 (the large white resistor). Both are upgrades to the existing components and give a more vintage sound and feel to the amp. However, the differences with the cap replacements, choke, and OT are more just icing on the cake (subtle). The speaker swap, C19 mod (play with the value), and tubes were much more noticeable and plenty satisfying. To be honest the only reason I continued with the cap/choke/OT swap after doing "the big three" was because I already bought them, as the amp sounded awesome at that point. But the OT swap is a little louder (50W vs 40W), provides more headroom, and also provides a 4-ohm output if you want to install an additional jack (I didn't, don't currently have a need for it). If I were to do it over again, I would do the speaker, C19, tubes, and maybe the OT swap for the added headroom and 4-ohm out, but probably wouldn't do the choke and caps again. The caps are relatively cheap but the labor makes it not worth the trouble in my opinion, took me about 6 hours to do the caps/choke/OT (with plenty of breaks and taking my time).



Yes indeed huge contributions from the above mentioned. Thank you for clarifying.
One last question about the OT where you say : '....and also provides a 4-ohm output if you want.... " does that mean this would allow the use of 2 x 8 ohm speakers ? ( I/O 2 x 16 ohm speakers )
BP.


----------



## c00lkatz

kevmoe said:


> Hello all .I just picked up a brand new DSL 40 c.with the creme back speaker from an online dealer..The locals didn't have the amp with the creme back..i have it about 4 days now trying to as much as possible to break in speaker..so far sounds pretty good with all my guitars,Gibson ,prs,fender,Ibanez ..my only concern or complaint is the amps a bit noisy. Sizzle ..more so on drive channel ..and I am getting some popping ..annoying..my questions Are.what causes the popping.?is the sizzle normal for these amps.?.do I have to take amp in for biasing.?.again amp was shipped..possible a tube loosened ??? Thank you in advance your replies much appreciated



Always a good idea to check bias and reseat your tubes. Could be a bad tube. If you got it with the creamback, I assume you bought from Sweetwater? If so, I would contact them, they have great customer service, may be willing to send you some replacement tubes to try.

May also try working your pots a bit since they're new, and check to make sure your speaker cable is seated well. Could also be crappy power. But reseating tubes and cables, maybe tube swap if you have them handy, would be the first things I'd try.



BanditPanda said:


> Yes indeed huge contributions from the above mentioned. Thank you for clarifying.
> One last question about the OT where you say : '....and also provides a 4-ohm output if you want.... " does that mean this would allow the use of 2 x 8 ohm speakers ? ( I/O 2 x 16 ohm speakers )
> BP.



Yes with the 4-ohm output you could run two 8 ohm speakers in parallel, but you'll only have one 4-ohm output on the amp so you'd have to have them wired up in the same cab or have 2 cabs daisy chained (which many of them do come with 2 jacks wired in parallel). But if both speakers were in the same cab you could wire them together in series for 16 ohms without the upgraded transformer.

Or I guess you could also install 2 jacks wired in parallel to the 4 ohm out on the new transformer, but you'll have to find room for it.


----------



## Bownse

The easy path would be to pull and reseat your tubes as a first check.


----------



## Micky

BanditPanda said:


> Yes indeed huge contributions from the above mentioned. Thank you for clarifying.
> One last question about the OT where you say : '....and also provides a 4-ohm output if you want.... " does that mean this would allow the use of 2 x 8 ohm speakers ? ( I/O 2 x 16 ohm speakers )
> BP.


Yes. Will require re-wiring or extra wiring.


----------



## MarshallDog

c00lkatz said:


> I'm not the first to do these mods, earlier in the thread you can find more details about these mods (from Micky, DSMer, MarshallDog, and others), which is where I obtained the inspiration.
> 
> Both are replacements. The choke replaces R111 (the large white resistor). Both are upgrades to the existing components and give a more vintage sound and feel to the amp. However, the differences with the cap replacements, choke, and OT are more just icing on the cake (subtle). The speaker swap, C19 mod (play with the value), and tubes were much more noticeable and plenty satisfying. To be honest the only reason I continued with the cap/choke/OT swap after doing "the big three" was because I already bought them, as the amp sounded awesome at that point. But the OT swap is a little louder (50W vs 40W), provides more headroom, and also provides a 4-ohm output if you want to install an additional jack (I didn't, don't currently have a need for it). If I were to do it over again, I would do the speaker, C19, tubes, and maybe the OT swap for the added headroom and 4-ohm out, but probably wouldn't do the choke and caps again. The caps are relatively cheap but the labor makes it not worth the trouble in my opinion, took me about 6 hours to do the caps/choke/OT (with plenty of breaks and taking my time).



Nice job on the mods. When I changed out my caps, I didnt notice much change if any in tone, have you? Just wondering? Im running no cap in C19 and it will stay like that. I have tried a lot of values and it will sound OK at low volumes but when cranked up...wow look out. That harsh sound returns. I may try the JJ 8803-S tubes in this amp seeing as I have a bunch. I dont have the Sovtek LPS so Ill just try them in all the slots and see what happens. Using Mullards now and Mullard EL34s. Always wanted to replace the OT with a ClassicTone but never got around to it yet. Sounds like you like it???


----------



## MarshallDog

I tried the JJ 8803-s tubes in all 4 slots and I think I like it. Much less gain but still plenty and very less harsh.

I love this amp but why did the phuckheads at Marshall design it to be so harsh, ear piercing, etc??? Its like bad wine in a great bottle?????!!!!


----------



## Oldpunk

Slap a Ruby ac7 hg+ into V1 or V2 and it should smooth things out even more.


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

I have a Ruby in V1, a Tungsol in V2, a Svetlana in V3, and a JJ 5751 in the PI. I got an extra Ruby in my order from the Tubestore to have as a spare, but I may roll it through to see if something interesting happens.


----------



## jlinde1973

kevmoe said:


> Hello all .I just picked up a brand new DSL 40 c.with the creme back speaker from an online dealer..The locals didn't have the amp with the creme back..i have it about 4 days now trying to as much as possible to break in speaker..so far sounds pretty good with all my guitars,Gibson ,prs,fender,Ibanez ..my only concern or complaint is the amps a bit noisy. Sizzle ..more so on drive channel ..and I am getting some popping ..annoying..my questions Are.what causes the popping.?is the sizzle normal for these amps.?.do I have to take amp in for biasing.?.again amp was shipped..possible a tube loosened ??? Thank you in advance your replies much appreciated


Preamp tubes...my dsl is very picky with them. I use vintage sylvania longplates in all of my marshall. Sweet fat tone guarenteed.


----------



## c00lkatz

MarshallDog said:


> Nice job on the mods. When I changed out my caps, I didnt notice much change if any in tone, have you? Just wondering? Im running no cap in C19 and it will stay like that. I have tried a lot of values and it will sound OK at low volumes but when cranked up...wow look out. That harsh sound returns. I may try the JJ 8803-S tubes in this amp seeing as I have a bunch. I dont have the Sovtek LPS so Ill just try them in all the slots and see what happens. Using Mullards now and Mullard EL34s. Always wanted to replace the OT with a ClassicTone but never got around to it yet. Sounds like you like it???



Thanks for the compliment. Yeah, I don't think the Mallory/Orange Drop caps and choke did much for the tone. I think I'm going back to no cap in C19 as well, just haven't felt like pulling it apart again. The OT made it louder and increased headroom. I don't find a huge improvement to tone, and honestly my ears (or my brain) liked it better before the OT/choke/caps (after speaker, tubes, C19 delete). I will say it is definitely a touch sensitive amp, more so than I remember. The harder you strum the more aggressive and louder it becomes. I'm a hard strummer and use a heavy pick, so I have to watch my technique more closely for some stuff. This amp is not very forgiving. I would like to A/B a stock amp with mine and get a real before/after comparison. Unfortunately I didn't have the foresight to make any before/after clips, not that I have the equipment (or knowledge) to really pull that off effectively anyway.

For anyone wondering about mods...seriously just play the thing, practice more. Your wallet and/or a soldering iron ain't gonna make you a better player. If you mod this amp, stick to tubes and a speaker if the stockers ain't doing it for ya. Clip C19 if you want to tame the red channel a bit. Not trying to knock anyone, but I feel maybe some may have fell victim to the human condition (i.e. placebo effect) when evaluating the "enhancements" some of this stuff made. This is a great amp to begin with, but the C19 mod, tubes, and a good speaker (let's face it, the 70/80 was a business decision) make a big difference and take it to another level. Anything other than that just leave it be.


----------



## jlinde1973

Nothing personal...just sell the dsl and get a jvm. Problem solved. I own both. I love my dsl with bright cap 200pf and budda phat 12 speaker and long plate sylvanias...but it doesn't hold a prayer against my jvm410....not even in the same ballpark. But for the price u can't go wrong. I'm selling the dsl. $450 with D2f padded cover and will have English Celestion v30 speaker in it. excellent condition..if anybody interested. New preamp tubes...power tubes biased nice and hot at 41ma. Great sounding amp. Pm if interested


----------



## jlinde1973

c00lkatz said:


> Thanks for the compliment. Yeah, I don't think the Mallory/Orange Drop caps and choke did much for the tone. I think I'm going back to no cap in C19 as well, just haven't felt like pulling it apart again. The OT made it louder and increased headroom. I don't find a huge improvement to tone, and honestly my ears (or my brain) liked it better before the OT/choke/caps (after speaker, tubes, C19 delete). I will say it is definitely a touch sensitive amp, more so than I remember. The harder you strum the more aggressive and louder it becomes. I'm a hard strummer and use a heavy pick, so I have to watch my technique more closely for some stuff. This amp is not very forgiving. I would like to A/B a stock amp with mine and get a real before/after comparison. Unfortunately I didn't have the foresight to make any before/after clips, not that I have the equipment (or knowledge) to really pull that off effectively anyway.
> 
> For anyone wondering about mods...seriously just play the thing, practice more. Your wallet and/or a soldering iron ain't gonna make you a better player. If you mod this amp, stick to tubes and a speaker if the stockers ain't doing it for ya. Clip C19 if you want to tame the red channel a bit. Not trying to knock anyone, but I feel maybe some may have fell victim to the human condition (i.e. placebo effect) when evaluating the "enhancements" some of this stuff made. This is a great amp to begin with, but the C19 mod, tubes, and a good speaker (let's face it, the 70/80 was a business decision) make a big difference and take it to another level. Anything other than that just leave it be.


Don't clip the cap..It'll sound like mush...I tried it. U lose everything by doing that. Just lower the value. I found 200pf to be a happy median from the 470pf original value.


----------



## c00lkatz

jlinde1973 said:


> Don't clip the cap..It'll sound like mush...I tried it. U lose everything by doing that. Just lower the value. I found 200pf to be a happy median from the 470pf original value.



I clipped it at first, then went to 100pf, didn't like it, down to 22pf, and I think I'm just going to clip it back out. Sounded better to me. To each their own I suppose.

Don't get me wrong, I like the DSL, more so than any of the amps I've listed (in my first post). I just wasn't as awed by the extensive modifications as others were. Out of all the tube amps, modelers, and software I've used, I like the DSL the best. I think it's probably the best you're going to get for under $1k (crazy good used deals excluded). Though my second favorites would be the Orange Dark Terror and Egnater Tweaker, especially if you can get a good price on them. I liked the Dark Terror ease of use and the effects loop had zero issues with any of my pedals (can't say that about the DSL or Tweaker), but it just wasn't versatile enough (tough to get really good clean or crunch tones at a decent volume level). The Egnater I had to modify the loop to work with my analog delay and chorus (switch to drop the send level and bump the return), but got really good clean and crunch tones. However there just wasn't enough gain, even with pedals it just didn't sound very "forward"...kinda muffled the more gain you give it.

The DSL can go from chimey clean to hardcore distortion and everything in between. No it's not "boutique quality" but I didn't pay $1500+ for it either. Though I do have to run my MXR Analog Chorus out front...in the loop causes a volume drop and attenuated treble (overloaded signal), similar to my problem with the Tweaker. Unlike the Tweaker though my MXR Carbon Copy Delay does just fine in the loop.


----------



## jlinde1973

Yes the dsl40c is a great amp. Probably the best bang for the buck out there for sure. I love lead 1 with gain just under noon. Especially with a 10 band eq with mid hump.


----------



## ken361

jlinde1973 said:


> Preamp tubes...my dsl is very picky with them. I use vintage sylvania longplates in all of my marshall. Sweet fat tone guarenteed.


totally agree I have 2 in mine including the PI which warms it up


----------



## jlinde1973

I know this is a dsl thread...but God damn! I ran my jvm410c on crunch red at about noon on the master for a good couple hours. Oh my god. It is by far the best marshall I've ever heard..period..if you've got the time, go play one at your guitar center. You'll be amazed. Ya they're expensive, but u get what u pay for. Absolutely killer amp. I just cannot believe the tones I'm getting out of it..I've never been so happy in the 25 years of guitar playing...literally.


----------



## c00lkatz

jlinde1973 said:


> I know this is a dsl thread...but God damn! I ran my jvm410c on crunch red at about noon on the master for a good couple hours. Oh my god. It is by far the best marshall I've ever heard..period..if you've got the time, go play one at your guitar center. You'll be amazed. Ya they're expensive, but u get what u pay for. Absolutely killer amp. I just cannot believe the tones I'm getting out of it..I've never been so happy in the 25 years of guitar playing...literally.



 STOP IT! SERIOUSLY! I DON'T NEED TO SPEND ANYMORE MONEY! Lol

I would hope it sounds better considering it costs about 4 DSLs!


----------



## Len

c00lkatz said:


> STOP IT! SERIOUSLY! I DON'T NEED TO SPEND ANYMORE MONEY! Lol
> 
> I would hope it sounds better considering it costs about 4 DSLs!


Not to me. The JVM has a different tone/vibe to it than a DSL.


----------



## MarshallDog

jlinde1973 said:


> Nothing personal...just sell the dsl and get a jvm. Problem solved. I own both. I love my dsl with bright cap 200pf and budda phat 12 speaker and long plate sylvanias...but it doesn't hold a prayer against my jvm410....not even in the same ballpark. But for the price u can't go wrong. I'm selling the dsl. $450 with D2f padded cover and will have English Celestion v30 speaker in it. excellent condition..if anybody interested. New preamp tubes...power tubes biased nice and hot at 41ma. Great sounding amp. Pm if interested



Interesting...I had a JVM 410H for a few years and I sold it. Love the DSL 40c over the JVM hands done just needs a few cheap and easy tweaks! It was just to modern high gain sounding regardless of what I did to try to tame it. I guess its all personal preferance???


----------



## jlinde1973

c00lkatz said:


> STOP IT! SERIOUSLY! I DON'T NEED TO SPEND ANYMORE MONEY! Lol
> 
> I would hope it sounds better considering it costs about 4 DSLs!


That's funny...but ya you're right. I just had some extra money laying around so i bought it... the dsl is a great bargin and a great sounding amp. But by the time people swap out trannys, speakers, choke and other mods to their dsls...they could buy the jvm outright. I've seen 410 heads going for under $800 in great shape.


----------



## jlinde1973

MarshallDog said:


> Interesting...I had a JVM 410H for a few years and I sold it. Love the DSL 40c over the JVM hands done just needs a few cheap and easy tweaks! It was just to modern high gain sounding regardless of what I did to try to tame it. I guess its all personal preferance???


I hear ya. Od2 is definitely high gain but anywhere from crunch green to od1 orange sounds classic marshall to me. I find it like the dsl, that if you run the gain past noon, the tone gets noticably worse.


----------



## Bownse

My take is it depends on the intended use and that metal would want more crunchity crunch than the DSL might provide.


----------



## JiMB

I know it's short but here's a quick vid of my DSL40C and a Radial JDX into Pro Tools.


----------



## ken361

You dont hear Jim saying oh the amps too bright, fizzy, I need to clip the c19, replace the transformers lolll! you work it and make it work! haha have to vent teasing.


----------



## rlowe

ken361 said:


> You dont hear Jim saying oh the amps too bright, fizzy, I need to clip the c19, replace the transformers lolll! you work it and make it work! haha have to vent teasing.


After a year of changing speaker, tubes and break-in, yes it does seem to break-in after time it has a darker even tone (no mods). Grant it be, you can benefit by adding certain components, yet after a year it sounds decent!


----------



## bolintrucks

New to the forum, new to Marshall. Played the crap out of a DSL40 at sam Ash, ordered one from AMS that night. the day it arrived was the day I broke my wrist and have been in a cast for six weeks until yesterday. My question; is the need to 'break-in' a speaker really a thing? I've always bought used amps, never had to deal with what I found yesterday.....an amp that sounds very 'not as chewy' as the one I played in the store. I searched the thread and found plent of opinions about changing out the speaker, but I'm curious about the process of breaking one in. Thanks.


----------



## rlowe

bolintrucks said:


> New to the forum, new to Marshall. Played the crap out of a DSL40 at sam Ash, ordered one from AMS that night. the day it arrived was the day I broke my wrist and have been in a cast for six weeks until yesterday. My question; is the need to 'break-in' a speaker really a thing? I've always bought used amps, never had to deal with what I found yesterday.....an amp that sounds very 'not as chewy' as the one I played in the store. I searched the thread and found plent of opinions about changing out the speaker, but I'm curious about the process of breaking one in. Thanks.


After a few months, maybe weeks depending on how much you play the 70/80 will lose the sharpness and sound ok after some time( notice I said ok). I eventually purchased a Celestion Vintage 30 tried it and was I amazed at the difference in sound yes, satisfied.  and possibly try some new power, preamp tubes the OEM's sometimes do not last long due to maybe an overly high bias setting set in error at the factory. Check your bias!


----------



## G the wildman

bolintrucks said:


> New to the forum, new to Marshall. Played the crap out of a DSL40 at sam Ash, ordered one from AMS that night. the day it arrived was the day I broke my wrist and have been in a cast for six weeks until yesterday. My question; is the need to 'break-in' a speaker really a thing? I've always bought used amps, never had to deal with what I found yesterday.....an amp that sounds very 'not as chewy' as the one I played in the store. I searched the thread and found plent of opinions about changing out the speaker, but I'm curious about the process of breaking one in. Thanks.


----------



## G the wildman

Checking bias is essential. 

I changed to a 65 Creamback speaker.

Also amp needs to be warm before you play.

I also use clean channel a lot with a blues overdrive pedal.


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

bolintrucks said:


> New to the forum, new to Marshall. Played the crap out of a DSL40 at sam Ash, ordered one from AMS that night. the day it arrived was the day I broke my wrist and have been in a cast for six weeks until yesterday. My question; is the need to 'break-in' a speaker really a thing? I've always bought used amps, never had to deal with what I found yesterday.....an amp that sounds very 'not as chewy' as the one I played in the store. I searched the thread and found plent of opinions about changing out the speaker, but I'm curious about the process of breaking one in. Thanks.



Like the others have said, the bias is key. I've had two new DSL40s and on both the bias was way out when I first checked them. Hell, I might even take a look at mine this weekend now that everyone has brought it up.


----------



## BanditPanda

bolintrucks said:


> New to the forum, new to Marshall. Played the crap out of a DSL40 at sam Ash, ordered one from AMS that night. the day it arrived was the day I broke my wrist and have been in a cast for six weeks until yesterday. My question; is the need to 'break-in' a speaker really a thing? I've always bought used amps, never had to deal with what I found yesterday.....an amp that sounds very 'not as chewy' as the one I played in the store. I searched the thread and found plent of opinions about changing out the speaker, but I'm curious about the process of breaking one in. Thanks.




Yes a new speaker will require a break in period. Some say 20 hours of playing should do it.


----------



## bolintrucks

Thanks for the feedback folks! I've got 8 hours into both the speaker break-in and the picking hand therapy! Will look at the bias as soon as I can safely get it up on a workbench. If it turns out I look to a new speaker, what are the recommendations for bluesy/classic rock sounds?


----------



## Bownse

Opinions are like... you know the rest.

I considered the 16 Ohm Creamback in both 65w and 75w configuration and with with the 75w for it's extra head room if driven by another amp as well as (imo) the more solid bottom end (bigger magnet? moving more air?).


----------



## bolintrucks

Bownse said:


> Opinions are like... you know the rest.
> 
> I considered the 16 Ohm Creamback in both 65w and 75w configuration and with with the 75w for it's extra head room if driven by another amp as well as (imo) the more solid bottom end (bigger magnet? moving more air?).


Interesting. Thank you


----------



## BanditPanda

bolintrucks said:


> Thanks for the feedback folks! I've got 8 hours into both the speaker break-in and the picking hand therapy! Will look at the bias as soon as I can safely get it up on a workbench. If it turns out I look to a new speaker, what are the recommendations for bluesy/classic rock sounds?




Check out the WGS ET65. Many here do recommend it .


----------



## rlowe

bolintrucks said:


> Thanks for the feedback folks! I've got 8 hours into both the speaker break-in and the picking hand therapy! Will look at the bias as soon as I can safely get it up on a workbench. If it turns out I look to a new speaker, what are the recommendations for bluesy/classic rock sounds?


 Here is a link or video, few speakers comps.


----------



## JiMB

Just finished this vid using my Strat with the DSL40C.


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## G the wildman

JiMB said:


> Just finished this vid using my Strat with the DSL40C.



Cool. How long you been playing?


----------



## JiMB

G the wildman said:


> Cool. How long you been playing?


Long time, my brother, a little over 40yrs.


----------



## BanditPanda

Jim, With my DSL40CV I am strictly a clean/clean Green with pedals in front and effects thru the loop. Not a fan of the Ultras however the sound you're getting with the Strat is interesting. Would you share your amp settings please ?
B.P.


----------



## BanditPanda

Never mind. Stop video shows: Gain : Off // Treble:4 // Mid:8 // Bass:7 // Presence : 5 // Resonance:8
Hard to tell if you're in Lead 1 or 2 though.


----------



## ken361

Similar to mine mids 5 resonance 7 bass 5 or so, my strat rocks


----------



## BanditPanda

ken361 said:


> Similar to mine mids 5 resonance 7 bass 5 or so, my strat rocks


Ken, which Ultra channel do you use?


----------



## ken361

Mostly lead 1


----------



## ken361

ken361 said:


> Mostly lead 1


Presence 3


----------



## BanditPanda

Cool. We'll give 'er a try.
Thanks.
B.P.


----------



## Snow and Steel

I played a DSL40C in a store a week or so ago and it sounded pretty good. I had a large credit at the store and wanted another amp so I figured "why not?" and had them order me a new one in. The floor one was pretty ratty and I suspect it had ben left on overnight quite a few times.

So I came here, I read all 306 pages of this thread, signed up, and posted my introduction - best foot forward I hope.

DSL 40c Arrived today. Sounds good, although different from my main rig, and different from the 1974X I used to own. Compared to the 1974X the clean channel almost seems scooped - a lot more bass and the way more highs. The upside is this makes the amp sound a lot "bigger", but the downside is that I definitely desire more mids and less highs and treble. The clean channel seems to have a LOT of bass!

I intend to retube it relatively soon it and save my originals as spares - I'm thinking a nice well matched set of JJ's from eurotubes would tame the highs some. It came with the "Marshall" branded tubes which I suspect are also JJ's, but probably not tested and matched as well as Eurotubes does, and I certainly wouldn't want tubes that brightened it any.

I'm also thinking I'll drop in a Celestion Vintage 30 to cut back both the bass and highs as well as boost the mids up. Don't get me wrong - the map sounds great now, I think of the tubes and speaker as more of a "fine tuning" measure. I'm primary a clean channel player and I use pedals to get most of my tones.

Once I've installed those "upgrades", and perhaps gotten a nice cover from studio slips, I'm going to try it out at a few gigs as well as see if I can get some recorded tones to post.

Overall a great combo, very pleased.


----------



## Snow and Steel

OK, here's a real quick sound sample I made.

The playing isn't perfect and I'd be embarrassed to charge anyone any money for this - this is just a "one shot, one take, whatever happens is what you get" track, so I know there are a couple of errors in there and I don't like them either. It was all done REAL quick and hasty just to get an idea of the stock sound, and also to give me something recorded to compare to when I get the new speaker and tubes installed.

Anyways, hope you guys like the tone!


----------



## jmbjr

This is my debut post here.

I have my DSL40C for 2 years now. Since I never had a "real" Marshall (I had the Valvestate one, but the speaker died on my during a show - looong time ago), and I had just bought my Les Paul Traditional I thought it was time! Didn't want (wife) to spend the money on a JVM, so I got the DSL40C.

I played it quite substantially before purchasing it at a local Guitar Center, and my first impression was that the Crunch Channel was almost brilliant in terms of the tone I was looking for. Lead 1 and 2 felt OK but only at higher gains, however I felt that this channel was overly harsh in the high-mid (and I guess most of you do as well). The first thing I did was to swap the 70/80 to a WSG ET65 to tame these harsh frequencies, in which I am very glad I did, because I quite like this speaker.

Until two days ago, I was mainly playing the Crunch Channel with either a Tube Screamer Mini and a Zen drive, and more recently a Carpe Diem from Fire Custom (what a pedal!!) to get a nice overdrive. But, all of a sudden, I noticed the amp started to sound weird and without definition. I immediately blamed the power tubes, but before deciding to change the tubes I wanted to check the bias. I was very shocked to find the both tubes were running at about 20mA. So I adjusted it to the value people here seem to like (~ 38mA), and I also took the opportunity to bypass the C19 with an ON/OFF switch. Now, with the bias adjusted, I readly noticed the Crunch channel was back in game.

However, and I cannot emphasize enough, the C19 mod is probably the best mod one can ever do on the DSL40C - it made the Lead Channel sound just like the Crunch Channel. BTW, I highly recommend the ON/OFF switch, because you can get an immediate comparison how different it is with the mod. One thing I noticed is that it seems that the Lead channel has less overdrive with the C19 bypassed. Regardless, I now can use both channels wihtout doing massive changes to the EQ, which made the DSL40 way more versitile. As of now, I don't need any overdrive pedal because the Lead1 sounds amazing.

If you haven't done the C19 mod (don't forget to add the ON/OFF switch ) just do it - I higly recommend!
One mod I would like to see would be to make the Chunch/Clean and Lead1/Lead2 foot-switchable.

I will eventually change all the values and I will report back what I find once I do it.

Cheers!


----------



## BanditPanda

Snow and Steel said:


> I played a DSL40C in a store a week or so ago and it sounded pretty good. I had a large credit at the store and wanted another amp so I figured "why not?" and had them order me a new one in. The floor one was pretty ratty and I suspect it had ben left on overnight quite a few times.
> 
> So I came here, I read all 306 pages of this thread, signed up, and posted my introduction - best foot forward I hope.
> 
> DSL 40c Arrived today. Sounds good, although different from my main rig, and different from the 1974X I used to own. Compared to the 1974X the clean channel almost seems scooped - a lot more bass and the way more highs. The upside is this makes the amp sound a lot "bigger", but the downside is that I definitely desire more mids and less highs and treble. The clean channel seems to have a LOT of bass!
> 
> I intend to retube it relatively soon it and save my originals as spares - I'm thinking a nice well matched set of JJ's from eurotubes would tame the highs some. It came with the "Marshall" branded tubes which I suspect are also JJ's, but probably not tested and matched as well as Eurotubes does, and I certainly wouldn't want tubes that brightened it any.
> 
> I'm also thinking I'll drop in a Celestion Vintage 30 to cut back both the bass and highs as well as boost the mids up. Don't get me wrong - the map sounds great now, I think of the tubes and speaker as more of a "fine tuning" measure. I'm primary a clean channel player and I use pedals to get most of my tones.
> 
> Once I've installed those "upgrades", and perhaps gotten a nice cover from studio slips, I'm going to try it out at a few gigs as well as see if I can get some recorded tones to post.
> 
> Overall a great combo, very pleased.



LOL...You read every page eh ? That's quite the odyssey ! Then you know, check the bias.
Change the tubes. Sure you noticed lots of recommendations ! Based on what I gleaned from here I went with;
*V1 - *Mullard CV4004 / 12AX7
V2 & V3 - Svetlana 12AX7
V4 - JJ-ECC83 MG (Mid Gain)
POWER TUBES - Svetlana EL34
Concerning speaker swap I went with the WGS ET65 as quite a few have. At the same time however at the same time you may want to the 70/80 break in first. I have heard some very good samples of that.
You may have already done the You Tube thing for this amp but listen to this guys tone with a stock DSL 40C


----------



## BanditPanda

Snow and Steel said:


> OK, here's a real quick sound sample I made.
> 
> The playing isn't perfect and I'd be embarrassed to charge anyone any money for this - this is just a "one shot, one take, whatever happens is what you get" track, so I know there are a couple of errors in there and I don't like them either. It was all done REAL quick and hasty just to get an idea of the stock sound, and also to give me something recorded to compare to when I get the new speaker and tubes installed.
> 
> Anyways, hope you guys like the tone!




The recording does not do your tones justice. You got it going good.


----------



## Snow and Steel

BanditPanda said:


> The recording does not do your tones justice. You got it going good.



Thank you very much, that's very kind of you. I'm not real happy with it as far as playing is concerned, but again I was really only looking for "tone". its a 2:30 minute track and I spent all of 4 minutes on the entire thing.

I hear about 5 mistakes and at least three phrases that are pretty weak. But again, Normally I would write out a solo and practice it a couple dozen times before committing it to tape, and practice it for a week at a minimum before playing it live. That recording was literally no pre-planning and no thought. Just hit tape and play something - anything - for sound sample.

Further, If I told you how that was EQ'd you'd probably say "no way" and then call me insane. But it is what it is. I can use it as a reference for when install a new speaker and tubes so I have something to compare to.


----------



## Snow and Steel

A quick note;

Is it just me, or is the clean channel really bassy, and as you go up the channel in gain [crunch, lead1, lead 2] the bass seems to get less? I find that interesting as usually gain adds bass and treble.


----------



## G the wildman

I am thinking of putting a Mullard type valve back in V1. When I tried it before it seemed to numb the amp.

After almost a year of DSL 40c ownershi. With creamback. I just don't enjoy the brutal sound.

Any feedback welcome.


----------



## G the wildman

Also I am considering buying a mesa boogie Mk 5 25 mini with 1x12 mesa cab. Any thoughts in comparison to DSL 40c.


----------



## Bownse

Oh yee fickle fellows...


----------



## G the wildman

Bownse said:


> Oh yee fickle fellows...


Lol . I did used to be decisive but not so sure now.


----------



## Bownse

I am what I was but not what as much as to be?


----------



## JiMB

BanditPanda said:


> Never mind. Stop video shows: Gain : Off // Treble:4 // Mid:8 // Bass:7 // Presence : 5 // Resonance:8
> Hard to tell if you're in Lead 1 or 2 though.


Sorry, I was just checking in now but yes, those were the settings, volume was a tad higher, though. I used Lead 1 for the right channel rhythm and Lead 2 for the left channel. I think Gain was on 10 if not close to it.


----------



## Screamin Willie

JiMB said:


> Just finished this vid using my Strat with the DSL40C.




Awesome tune and awesome tone, JimB. Awesome video production also. I would love to hear, either here or in another thread, about what went into the production of the video. I would like to start putting some videos together also.

Thanks,
Willie


----------



## BanditPanda

G the wildman said:


> I am thinking of putting a Mullard type valve back in V1. When I tried it before it seemed to numb the amp.
> 
> After almost a year of DSL 40c ownershi. With creamback. I just don't enjoy the brutal sound.
> 
> Any feedback welcome.[/QUOTE
> 
> Hey Wildman, as you may see above I went with the Mullard CV4004 in V1 ( which most do consider the most important of the Preamps tubes ) I took the advice of the guy at the tube store who said " For a warmer feel, try Mullard CV4004 in there.


----------



## BanditPanda

JiMB said:


> Sorry, I was just checking in now but yes, those were the settings, volume was a tad higher, though. I used Lead 1 for the right channel rhythm and Lead 2 for the left channel. I think Gain was on 10 if not close to it.



Thanks for that MB, !


----------



## JiMB

Screamin Willie said:


> Awesome tune and awesome tone, JimB. Awesome video production also. I would love to hear, either here or in another thread, about what went into the production of the video. I would like to start putting some videos together also.
> 
> Thanks,
> Willie


Hi Willie,
I'm using a Canon Vixia HF R600 video camera and a Canon S95 camera for the still shots (sometimes my iPhone 6s, also). SM57 into a Focusrite Saffire Pro 26 into Pro Tools 11 (I use the reverb and delay plugins that come with PT). I edit it all together with iMovie. Nothing fancy but you can get good results. Glad you liked it, thanx!


----------



## Screamin Willie

JiMB said:


> Hi Willie,
> I'm using a Canon Vixia HF R600 video camera and a Canon S95 camera for the still shots (sometimes my iPhone 6s, also). SM57 into a Focusrite Saffire Pro 26 into Pro Tools 11 (I use the reverb and delay plugins that come with PT). I edit it all together with iMovie. Nothing fancy but you can get good results. Glad you liked it, thanx!



Thanks for the reply, JimB. I don't have that kind of camera equipment or Pro Tools, but, I've got a SM57 and iMovie and some other stuff that I think will work. A bit of a learning curve I'm sure. I'm looking forward to learning some new stuff.

Thanks again,
Willie


----------



## Snow and Steel

Does anyone have a full schematic of the DSL40c?


----------



## MarshallDog

G the wildman said:


> I am thinking of putting a Mullard type valve back in V1. When I tried it before it seemed to numb the amp.
> 
> After almost a year of DSL 40c ownershi. With creamback. I just don't enjoy the brutal sound.
> 
> Any feedback welcome.



Try a Jan-GE 5751 in V1 and EH 12AX7s in the others along with removing C19 and it will grind the brutal sound right off this beeatch...seriously. And, if that does not do it enough, pop in some KT77 power tubes, they sound great in this amp. It worked for me playing with an LPS


----------



## MarshallDog

Snow and Steel said:


> Does anyone have a full schematic of the DSL40c?



I thought there was one attached in this thread...maybe not. If mine scans in with good resolution I'll let you know.


----------



## Micky

MarshallDog said:


> I thought there was one attached in this thread...maybe not. If mine scans in with good resolution I'll let you know.


It is a violation of copyright laws to distribute this schematic.


----------



## Snow and Steel

Micky said:


> It is a violation of copyright laws to distribute this schematic.



That is not my understanding of copyright law.

You would have to be distributing it with the intent of depriving Marshall of profit or sales. Distribution may be against company policy, but against the law? I don't believe that is correct. There are MULTIPLE structured parts of copyright law that expressly say it is OK for things to be shared, copied, or distributed if it is for the intent of review, education or critique. Since this would be for self education anyone and every should should be legally safe.

Now if it is against company policy, said employee who shares might find himself fired.

If someone where to take the schematic and build a complete amp there is argument he broke copyright law. If he sells said amp he for sure did. But distributing and obtaining a schematic for you education and repair should not be illegal - at least in the USA, as I understand the law.

FWIW, I'm not a lawyer, but I do hold copyrighted material.


----------



## Snow and Steel

I almost forgot - it is also impossible to copyright a circuit. That is why Bill F is so upset and whacked out fo shape about his Klon being copied - he couldn't copyright the circuit, so he "gooped" the innards to hide them. Needless to say, it only took some time before several examples were "de-gooped" and a reverse engineered schematic was made - and "klones" were born. Also why there are so many tube screamer clones. Basically somebody can build a Marshall amp [and plenty of small builders do] as long as they don't style it like a Marshall, put Marshall in it/on it or copy the Marshall logo.


----------



## MarshallDog

Micky said:


> It is a violation of copyright laws to distribute this schematic.



No way, we are just members helping others so they can tweak an amp so it it sounds good or help them solve a problem due to poor craftsmanship. Copy righting applies to copying something and clamming its yours. 

I got my copy due to the help of another MF'r and I'm sure its out on a website somewhere just a pain to find.

Plus, IMO, if I buy a product, the schematic manual are also available to me end of story in my mind and I'm sure in a court of law...not too mention it would not be good for a companies business to go after someone for reasons like this, it would kill them once it gets out...really!!


----------



## Micky

Snow and Steel said:


> That is not my understanding of copyright law.
> 
> You would have to be distributing it with the intent of depriving Marshall of profit or sales. Distribution may be against company policy, but against the law? I don't believe that is correct. There are MULTIPLE structured parts of copyright law that expressly say it is OK for things to be shared, copied, or distributed if it is for the intent of review, education or critique. Since this would be for self education anyone and every should should be legally safe.
> 
> Now if it is against company policy, said employee who shares might find himself fired.
> 
> If someone where to take the schematic and build a complete amp there is argument he broke copyright law. If he sells said amp he for sure did. But distributing and obtaining a schematic for you education and repair should not be illegal - at least in the USA, as I understand the law.
> 
> FWIW, I'm not a lawyer, but I do hold copyrighted material.


'Should not' is very different than 'shall be'. I won't argue this point any further, but if anyone wishes to battle a large company with the legal resources to ruin your life, then go for it. Personally I an not going to take the risk. 

My and my lawyers interpretation of copyright law, most notably how it pertains to photographs publushed, is different than yours.


----------



## Screamin Willie

Micky said:


> 'Should not' is very different than 'shall be'. I won't argue this point any further, but if anyone wishes to battle a large company with the legal resources to ruin your life, then go for it. Personally I an not going to take the risk.
> 
> My and my lawyers interpretation of copyright law, most notably how it pertains to photographs publushed, is different than yours.



This an interesting twist.

I'm not lawyer, but, I hope someone here is and can weigh in for the sake of interesting and informative discussion.

It would seem, maybe, you are both correct.

It is my understanding that a circuit can not be copyrighted. And, of course, you can't use someone else's name to promote your own product, without their written consent. I know for sure that an image/photograph CAN be copyrighted. So, can a schematic published as an image be copyrighted? I don't know, but, it is an interested twist I had never thought of. BTW, I believe a pdf qualifies as an image.



Snow and Steel said:


> Does anyone have a full schematic of the DSL40c?



Not trying to be a smartass, but, did you try performing a google search for "DSL40C schematic"?

Willie


----------



## Bownse

I would go so far as to say that many publishers (Clymer, etc.) do service manuals (with electronics diagrams) for cars they didn't build. As long as it's not to start production of competing products (but for service, education, etc.) then there should be no problem.


----------



## MarshallDog

PM me your e-mail and I'll send you a scanned copy of mine. Its too large to upload here...


----------



## c00lkatz

Well, I decided to modify my foot switch. Since it is such a big housing for basically a single SPDT foot switch for channel switching, with the reverb switch being mostly useless if you're running a reverb pedal like many people, and since I needed a buffer for my board but have mostly run out of space without some serious reworking, I decided to build some goodies into the original housing. Has taken me longer than expected, but finally got it done tonight. Works great! Little bit of switch pop, which I need to fix, and the gain pot for the boost is wired up backwards (CCW increases volume, CW decreases volume) so I need to fix that. Will dig into it tomorrow and fine tune it, but overall very happy with the mods.

1) Installed dual LED (Red/Green) on channel switch, with green being the green/clean channel, and red the lead channel.
2) Removed the reverb footswitch and moved it to a SPDT toggle switch on the back since I had one handy, and doesn't hurt to be able to use onboard reverb if need be.
3) Built and installed "half" of an AMZ Super Buffer circuit (using a single TI RC4558P dual op-amp, his design calls out 2 dual op-amps but didn't find it necessary) with a true bypass DPDT toggle switch on the back.
4) Built and installed a DIY MXR CAE MC-401 boost/buffer circuit (using another TI RC4558P instead of the spec'd LF442 since I had it handy) with a gain pot, LED indicator, true bypass 3PDT switch, and a switch to toggle between buffer and boost mode. The toggle only needs to be an SPDT but I used a DPDT since I had it handy. It basically is the equivalent of turning the pot down to zero, which on the MC-401 circuit turns it into a unity gain buffer. When you start turning the pot it begins to boost the signal. This is an independent circuit from the AMZ Super Buffer circuit, and has its own input and output jacks, so basically 2 pedals in one housing. So I can have a buffer and a boost or two independent buffers anywhere in the chain (4 jacks).

The boost and buffer circuits are of course not my own designs, got the schematics from other sites and soldered together on bread board. Not the prettiest thing, but gets the job done and is obviously not seen. The board is insulated with a piece of thin plastic on the back and is secured with a couple stick-on stand-offs (not pictured). I was barely able to squeeze this thing closed, super cramped in there with all the cables. I was just barely able to make it all fit with a little poking and finessing.

So to recap, the left foot switch is channel switching, right foot switch is MC-401 boost/buffer on/off, the top left toggle is reverb on/off, the next toggle is MC-401 boost/buffer toggle, and the last toggle is AMZ buffer on/off.

Some pics attached. Disregard the patch cable going from the output of the buffer into the input of the boost. This was just taken a few minutes ago during my initial testing, and have not yet integrated it into my chain.


----------



## MarshallDog

c00lkatz said:


> Well, I decided to modify my foot switch. Since it is such a big housing for basically a single SPDT foot switch for channel switching, with the reverb switch being mostly useless if you're running a reverb pedal like many people, and since I needed a buffer for my board but have mostly run out of space without some serious reworking, I decided to build some goodies into the original housing. Has taken me longer than expected, but finally got it done tonight. Works great! Little bit of switch pop, which I need to fix, and the gain pot for the boost is wired up backwards (CCW increases volume, CW decreases volume) so I need to fix that. Will dig into it tomorrow and fine tune it, but overall very happy with the mods.
> 
> 1) Installed dual LED (Red/Green) on channel switch, with green being the green/clean channel, and red the lead channel.
> 2) Removed the reverb footswitch and moved it to a SPDT toggle switch on the back since I had one handy, and doesn't hurt to be able to use onboard reverb if need be.
> 3) Built and installed "half" of an AMZ Super Buffer circuit (using a single TI RC4558P dual op-amp, his design calls out 2 dual op-amps but didn't find it necessary) with a true bypass DPDT toggle switch on the back.
> 4) Built and installed a DIY MXR CAE MC-401 boost/buffer circuit (using another TI RC4558P instead of the spec'd LF442 since I had it handy) with a gain pot, LED indicator, true bypass 3PDT switch, and a switch to toggle between buffer and boost mode. The toggle only needs to be an SPDT but I used a DPDT since I had it handy. It basically is the equivalent of turning the pot down to zero, which on the MC-401 circuit turns it into a unity gain buffer. When you start turning the pot it begins to boost the signal. This is an independent circuit from the AMZ Super Buffer circuit, and has its own input and output jacks, so basically 2 pedals in one housing. So I can have a buffer and a boost or two independent buffers anywhere in the chain (4 jacks).
> 
> The boost and buffer circuits are of course not my own designs, got the schematics from other sites and soldered together on bread board. Not the prettiest thing, but gets the job done and is obviously not seen. The board is insulated with a piece of thin plastic on the back and is secured with a couple stick-on stand-offs (not pictured). I was barely able to squeeze this thing closed, super cramped in there with all the cables. I was just barely able to make it all fit with a little poking and finessing.
> 
> So to recap, the left foot switch is channel switching, right foot switch is MC-401 boost/buffer on/off, the top left toggle is reverb on/off, the next toggle is MC-401 boost/buffer toggle, and the last toggle is AMZ buffer on/off.
> 
> Some pics attached. Disregard the patch cable going from the output of the buffer into the input of the boost. This was just taken a few minutes ago during my initial testing, and have not yet integrated it into my chain.
> 
> View attachment 36320
> View attachment 36321
> View attachment 36322
> View attachment 36323
> View attachment 36324
> View attachment 36325
> View attachment 36326
> View attachment 36327



Very cool and nice. The only thing I did was put LEDs on my pedal...


----------



## c00lkatz

MarshallDog said:


> Very cool and nice. The only thing I did was put LEDs on my pedal...



Thanks! It just seemed like such a waste to have that huge pedal on my board with basically only one usable footswitch, and it only switches between 2 channels without any LED indicator. Seemed like a prime candidate for a custom pedal project. Turned out just about how I imagined. Sure wish they made the chassis out of aluminum though...that steel was a pain to drill and is quite heavy after adding all the components.

This was my 3rd DIY pedal project. The first was a simple JFET buffer I put into a plastic box with the intent of mounting under my board, but after getting a Fuzz Face, I found I needed the ability to turn the buffer on and off easily (the Fuzz Face doesn't play well with buffers). The second build was a dual input/output JFET buffer in a typical 1590B enclosure that I did for a friend. Decided to try the AMZ Super Buffer this go around, as it seems to be well received and is unity gain (the JFET buffers are slightly less than unity). Have also wanted to try a clean boost, and seeing as I have a CAE wah pedal, the CAE boost seemed appropriate and easy enough to try.

If anyone wants the schematics for this specific project, just let me know. I drew everything up in Orcad Capture, including all the switching.


----------



## c00lkatz

Well tore it open, rewired the MC-401 pot properly so that it increases gain CW, and rewired the AMZ buffer DPDT switch to the same method I used on the MC-401 3PDT switch and the pops went away (don't know why I did it differently...brain fart!), everything works great! All the switching is working, boost has a ton of clean gain, buffer is working and can tell a big difference with it off (loss of depth and treble), MC-401 boost/buffer toggle working. Really digging this thing, much better use of that huge chunk of steel!


----------



## Snow and Steel

Well my parts came in and are finally assembled. I'm hoping to get these put in next week.

I've got a matched set of Ruby EL34BSTR power tubes, a tung-sol for V1, a Ruby for V2 and V3, and a sovtek LPS for V4, and I've got a 16 ohm Celestion V30 to drop in it. Looking forward to it!


----------



## Patrick1959

Hi Guys, I have a bias issue and could use some advice. I recently replaced the tubes in my 40 c with the ultimate package from the tube store. 2 winged "C" (SED) EL34's and four JAN-GE 12AX7WA tubes. Biased at 38. I let the amp warm up for 20 to 30 minutes before biasing. After putting the amp together and playing it initially, it sounds great. after a day or so, the bias changes and the amp sounds bad. I have repeated the bias procedure twice with the same result. Any ideas?


----------



## MarshallDog

Patrick1959 said:


> Hi Guys, I have a bias issue and could use some advice. I recently replaced the tubes in my 40 c with the ultimate package from the tube store. 2 winged "C" (SED) EL34's and four JAN-GE 12AX7WA tubes. Biased at 38. I let the amp warm up for 20 to 30 minutes before biasing. After putting the amp together and playing it initially, it sounds great. after a day or so, the bias changes and the amp sounds bad. I have repeated the bias procedure twice with the same result. Any ideas?



It may be bad tubes. I would call The Tube Store immediately and tell them, they may send out new tubes at no charge. They have excellent customer service.


----------



## Patrick1959

Thanks, I'll try that.


----------



## Patrick1959

.


----------



## Snow and Steel

how old is your DSL40c?

weren't there some first run amps that had a drifting bias issue? if that is the case you would be covered by Marshall, and would either get the amp fixed [with new tubes and bias] for free, or potentially a new amp.


----------



## Screamin Willie

I think that was the JCM2000 DSLs that had the bias drift problems.

Sounds like bad tubes. From what I've read there were some Winged C seconds in the last runs that made it to market. I would put the old power tubes back in and see if the drift problem still exists.

Willie


----------



## Snow and Steel

A LOT of problems with winged C's it seems. Even people that et "good ones" say they sound good but burn up too quick. I skipped them and went right to the Ruby EL34BSTR on a recommendation form Doug @ Doug's tubes.


----------



## Patrick1959

I bought the amp about a year ago. It's a bedroom amp. Has not been played hard at all. I contacted the tube store, they said to burn the tubes in for 20 hrs. That has been done. I'll have time to bias the amp early next week and see what happens. So, if it drifts again I should go for the Ruby EL34BSTR power tubes? The reason I changed the tubes is because the Marshall stock set had drifted . I did not try to bias those because they had bad reviews on this forum, and I thought since I'd have to bias anyway I would kill two birds at one time.


----------



## Screamin Willie

Let us know how it goes with the re-bias.

Willie


----------



## SlickTide1

I just replaced my power tubes with a matched pair of Electro Hamonix EL34's and EH 12ax7's in all four of the other slots. Biased to 38.4 and now my dirty channel sounds awesome, but my clean channel is not as clean as it was before. Have read 90% of this thread and was wondering if this was normal? Not getting the cleans I use to....


----------



## ken361

Bias it a little cooler


----------



## SlickTide1

ken361 said:


> Bias it a little cooler


 
I thought about that...How much cooler?


----------



## Micky

SlickTide1 said:


> I thought about that...How much cooler?


Not knowing your B+ voltage, but 32-36 may help...


----------



## MarshallDog

SlickTide1 said:


> I just replaced my power tubes with a matched pair of Electro Hamonix EL34's and EH 12ax7's in all four of the other slots. Biased to 38.4 and now my dirty channel sounds awesome, but my clean channel is not as clean as it was before. Have read 90% of this thread and was wondering if this was normal? Not getting the cleans I use to....



EH tubes are a bit darker sounding...try a brighter tube in V1 BUT that will affect the Other channels a bit.


----------



## ken361

Or use less gain


----------



## Bownse

ken361 said:


> Or use less gain



Be careful about Gain. "you may be the subject of random sniffings."

http://bit.ly/2aZLqHH


----------



## SlickTide1

MarshallDog said:


> EH tubes are a bit darker sounding...try a brighter tube in V1 BUT that will affect the Other channels a bit.



You are correct Dog, it is darker which is fine for the dirty channel but I miss my cleans. What tube would you suggest in V1 to clean it up a little. Will order today and bias a little lower when it comes in. BTW my plate voltage was 449.


----------



## Bownse

From post #3052 of this thread (and maybe others)



> Carefully measure the voltage on pin 3 of the power tube it should be around 450-455Vdc then use the formula below to find the bias current usually 70% idle current is used. EL34 is a 25 Watt tube
> 
> watts/Plate Voltage x .7= idle current (70%)
> 
> 25/455=.054mA x .7 = .038mA
> 
> so 38mA would be the idle current set at 70%



[tube V]/[plate V]x%=[bias target]

So, if your plate V is 449, you figure the 25 watts of the tubes, and your target is 70%, then:

25/449x.7=0.0389 mA (rounded up to 39 for 70%)

If you calculate for the V of the amp (20) then it's

20/449x.7=0.0311 mA (rounded to 31 for 70%).

If you want to figure a higher/lower % then sub .6 for 60% or .8 for 80%. This is where Mickey and others' comments about biasing to what sounds best to you comes into play. The calculation will get you "on paper" and you can then dial in what sounds "best" to you more quickly from there.


----------



## astr0z0mb1e2k14

I found the right 1x12 extension cab for my DSL40c. A Peavey 112-6. 18mm plywood construction, from baffle to backboard. the biggest plus, came loaded with a Celestion 12M greenback. 

Didnt like the grill cloth on the BlackStar 1x12 cab that others have used, plus would have had to put a different speaker in it, as well.
Now, I am running a 2003 MIE 12H30 70th anny in the combo paired with the 12M greenback in the peavey. Now, just need to break in the greenie but am enjoying the sound, so far.


----------



## Snow and Steel

Today I have some free time, so I'll be installing new tubes and the Vintage 30 today. I'll hopefully have a review/report tonight, perhaps with an audio clip or two If I can get away with it.


----------



## Msharky67

Here is my new baby! There is a small gouge on the top back panel but no big deal. Just a quick touch up of paint can fix. No foot switch too but that can wait for now. For $447 shipped I think I stole this! The wait was worth it! Can't wait to get it. Don't plan on modding it. May switch tubes and swap a speaker from one of my other cabs.


----------



## Micky

It is about time!
You have suffered long enough without one...


----------



## Patrick1959

Happy to report after a 20 hr. constant burn in on the new tubes and 24 hrs. since the last bias, the tubes have not drifted, guessing they needed some time to acclimate. I also un soldered one side of the c19 cap and I like it! I can get everything from decent clean to that sweet Marshall crunch we are all addicted to.No question, this is just a badass amp. One thing I've noticed, ceiling fans have an effect on the sound. Thanks for the suggestions.


----------



## c00lkatz

Msharky67 said:


> Here is my new baby! There is a small gouge on the top back panel but no big deal. Just a quick touch up of paint can fix. No foot switch too but that can wait for now. For $447 shipped I think I stole this! The wait was worth it! Can't wait to get it. Don't plan on modding it. May switch tubes and swap a speaker from one of my other cabs.



I like the way those look...kinda wish I had waited out for one! You got a heck of a price on that thing!


----------



## BanditPanda

Yes I got me the CV also. Couldn't resist what they call the " vintage "look which I presume refers to the grill cloth.


----------



## Snow and Steel

Tubes installed, Vintage 30 loaded - wow, what a world of difference!

So the cats behind here is the green crunch channel, gain on 10. Rolling back my guitar volume to 6 or so gives me clean, at around 7-8 I've got a medium drive [very bluesbreaker-ish], at '10' I can have solo boost for that medium drive OR kick on a tubescreamer type for a solo boost to that. Alternately, the tubescreamer into this sounds like instant JCM800 to my ears.

I'm VERY pleased.


----------



## G the wildman

astr0z0mb1e2k14 said:


> I found the right 1x12 extension cab for my DSL40c. A Peavey 112-6. 18mm plywood construction, from baffle to backboard. the biggest plus, came loaded with a Celestion 12M greenback.
> 
> Didnt like the grill cloth on the BlackStar 1x12 cab that others have used, plus would have had to put a different speaker in it, as well.
> Now, I am running a 2003 MIE 12H30 70th anny in the combo paired with the 12M greenback in the peavey. Now, just need to break in the greenie but am enjoying the sound, so far.



Hi, is that extension for gigging or home use? How does it sound at home. What are the benefits?

G


----------



## krb813

Can someone give me some feedback on the DSL40C at Sweetwater with the Creamback speaker? I've heard the regular DSL40C. Is there a big difference?

Thanks


----------



## G the wildman

krb813 said:


> Can someone give me some feedback on the DSL40C at Sweetwater with the Creamback speaker? I've heard the regular DSL40C. Is there a big difference?
> 
> Thanks


I bought stock and then upgraded. To my ears the 65 Creamback softened the harsh sound. It has also got better over time. 

For me it was worth it. But many but many musicians herein like the 70 80 stock. 

You need try it out.

G


----------



## Snow and Steel

So the playing here isn't special in any way, and the mic is rather low quality, but this is a recording of the DSL40c after the speaker and tube change. Being able to compare it to the earlier one, this is much clearer and more defined, and more classic "Marshall" to my ears.


----------



## Screamin Willie

krb813 said:


> Can someone give me some feedback on the DSL40C at Sweetwater with the Creamback speaker? I've heard the regular DSL40C. Is there a big difference?
> 
> Thanks



If you were going to buy new, this would be the way to go. Chances are you would change the stock Seventy 80 anyway.

Willie


----------



## BanditPanda

krb813 said:


> Can someone give me some feedback on the DSL40C at Sweetwater with the Creamback speaker? I've heard the regular DSL40C. Is there a big difference?
> 
> I believe that Sweetwater is offering the creamback at no extra cost. Go for the creamback if that deal is still on.


----------



## astr0z0mb1e2k14

G the wildman said:


> Hi, is that extension for gigging or home use? How does it sound at home. What are the benefits?
> 
> G



It is for gigging purposes. At reheresal, jamming with a bassist and drummer, its sounds great to our ears. Benefits?......its louder than just a 1x12 combo. is that what you are asking?


----------



## 68nova

Hello everybody, long time reader, first time posting (except the introducing myself post). I started out reading this thread back in Oct. 2015. I was doing research on the DSL40c and found this. After reading off an on for about a month, I pulled the trigger and ordered one from Sweetwater. Came with the Creamback 65 already installed.









After about a month and a half of owning the amp, it started making popping noises and was really staticky and just didn't sound right. Being new to tube amps I wasn't sure what was wrong with it. After more reading of this thread, decided that I should change out the tubes and see if that helped. A lot of you had posted your tube choices, so I made a decision and bought these: 





TAD-EL34B-STR Power tubes, TAD-7025WA in the first slot, Ruby 12AX7HG+ in the second, Mullard 12ax7 reissue in the third, and a Sovtek LPS in the fourth. When I first installed the power tubes and checked the bias (thanks for the info on doing that), they were way hot at like 58. Set them back to around 38. 

Doing more reading on this thread, I learned that this amp sounds really good plugged into an external speaker. So I decided to build another cabinet for it. Doing some research on speakers, I settled on a Celestian Creamback 75 for the extension Cabinet. This is what I set out to do.





Well I had some wood left over wood from making that cabinet, so I thought what the heck, lets just make a small stack. 





Here is the head cabinet: 





And here is the finished product: 





About a month and a half ago, switched it over to half power and turned it on and it just squealed like crazy. Turned it right back off and switched back to full power. Turned it back on an it was fine. Pulled out the chassis to check the bias. Checked the plate voltage first, one tube had no reading at all, other was in the 450 range. So doing some more research, settled on a pair of Svetlanas. Biased them again to 38 and put it back together. Decided last night to check the bias as it wasn't sounding right again. Plate voltage was 428, both tubes. Bias was at 32, both. Weber bias calculator said to bias them at 40.8. Tried that for bit, but lowered back to 38. Then as I was looking at the circuit board, I decided to try the C19 mod. WOW, what a difference it makes. Thanks to all who suggested it. I really enjoy this amp, makes playing that much more fun. Oh and by the way, I have read this whole thread from start to finish. Actually just finished it about 3 weeks ago. So those are my mods to this great amp, sorry for the long post.


----------



## Snow and Steel

that head conversions looks great!

How frequently do you use the amp? Burning through tubes at a month and a half of use seems awful fast unless you are using it for 8 hours a day every day.


----------



## 68nova

Thanks for the compliment on the head conversion. The original power tubes are Marshall branded TAD's and I still have them for back-ups. I don't play for extended periods of time, usually about 1-2 hours, but unfortunately not daily. There were a couple times I forgot to turn off the amp when I went to bed, it stayed in stand-by all night. That may have played a role in the demise of the power tubes. I also may have to look into some modifications to the head for better air flow. It has a vent on the back, but not sure if its enough.


----------



## MarshallDog

SlickTide1 said:


> You are correct Dog, it is darker which is fine for the dirty channel but I miss my cleans. What tube would you suggest in V1 to clean it up a little. Will order today and bias a little lower when it comes in. BTW my plate voltage was 449.



The Tube Store 7025 is bright and clean and low noise. Check it out maybe you will like it.


----------



## MarshallDog

68nova said:


> Hello everybody, long time reader, first time posting (except the introducing myself post). I started out reading this thread back in Oct. 2015. I was doing research on the DSL40c and found this. After reading off an on for about a month, I pulled the trigger and ordered one from Sweetwater. Came with the Creamback 65 already installed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After about a month and a half of owning the amp, it started making popping noises and was really staticky and just didn't sound right. Being new to tube amps I wasn't sure what was wrong with it. After more reading of this thread, decided that I should change out the tubes and see if that helped. A lot of you had posted your tube choices, so I made a decision and bought these:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TAD-EL34B-STR Power tubes, TAD-7025WA in the first slot, Ruby 12AX7HG+ in the second, Mullard 12ax7 reissue in the third, and a Sovtek LPS in the fourth. When I first installed the power tubes and checked the bias (thanks for the info on doing that), they were way hot at like 58. Set them back to around 38.
> 
> Doing more reading on this thread, I learned that this amp sounds really good plugged into an external speaker. So I decided to build another cabinet for it. Doing some research on speakers, I settled on a Celestian Creamback 75 for the extension Cabinet. This is what I set out to do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well I had some wood left over wood from making that cabinet, so I thought what the heck, lets just make a small stack.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the head cabinet:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here is the finished product:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> About a month and a half ago, switched it over to half power and turned it on and it just squealed like crazy. Turned it right back off and switched back to full power. Turned it back on an it was fine. Pulled out the chassis to check the bias. Checked the plate voltage first, one tube had no reading at all, other was in the 450 range. So doing some more research, settled on a pair of Svetlanas. Biased them again to 38 and put it back together. Decided last night to check the bias as it wasn't sounding right again. Plate voltage was 428, both tubes. Bias was at 32, both. Weber bias calculator said to bias them at 40.8. Tried that for bit, but lowered back to 38. Then as I was looking at the circuit board, I decided to try the C19 mod. WOW, what a difference it makes. Thanks to all who suggested it. I really enjoy this amp, makes playing that much more fun. Oh and by the way, I have read this whole thread from start to finish. Actually just finished it about 3 weeks ago. So those are my mods to this great amp, sorry for the long post.



Dam man, if you play guitar as good as you work with wood, look out. That is awesome!!! You mush have some serious woodworking tools, how long did all this take to do??


----------



## ken361

post some clips


----------



## Screamin Willie

68nova said:


> Hello everybody, long time reader, first time posting (except the introducing myself post). I started out reading this thread back in Oct. 2015. I was doing research on the DSL40c and found this. After reading off an on for about a month, I pulled the trigger and ordered one from Sweetwater. Came with the Creamback 65 already installed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After about a month and a half of owning the amp, it started making popping noises and was really staticky and just didn't sound right. Being new to tube amps I wasn't sure what was wrong with it. After more reading of this thread, decided that I should change out the tubes and see if that helped. A lot of you had posted your tube choices, so I made a decision and bought these:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TAD-EL34B-STR Power tubes, TAD-7025WA in the first slot, Ruby 12AX7HG+ in the second, Mullard 12ax7 reissue in the third, and a Sovtek LPS in the fourth. When I first installed the power tubes and checked the bias (thanks for the info on doing that), they were way hot at like 58. Set them back to around 38.
> 
> Doing more reading on this thread, I learned that this amp sounds really good plugged into an external speaker. So I decided to build another cabinet for it. Doing some research on speakers, I settled on a Celestian Creamback 75 for the extension Cabinet. This is what I set out to do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well I had some wood left over wood from making that cabinet, so I thought what the heck, lets just make a small stack.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the head cabinet:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here is the finished product:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> About a month and a half ago, switched it over to half power and turned it on and it just squealed like crazy. Turned it right back off and switched back to full power. Turned it back on an it was fine. Pulled out the chassis to check the bias. Checked the plate voltage first, one tube had no reading at all, other was in the 450 range. So doing some more research, settled on a pair of Svetlanas. Biased them again to 38 and put it back together. Decided last night to check the bias as it wasn't sounding right again. Plate voltage was 428, both tubes. Bias was at 32, both. Weber bias calculator said to bias them at 40.8. Tried that for bit, but lowered back to 38. Then as I was looking at the circuit board, I decided to try the C19 mod. WOW, what a difference it makes. Thanks to all who suggested it. I really enjoy this amp, makes playing that much more fun. Oh and by the way, I have read this whole thread from start to finish. Actually just finished it about 3 weeks ago. So those are my mods to this great amp, sorry for the long post.



That is an awesome badass setup, man. Very nice. And nice work.

FWIW, when I had my head cabinet built, the front grill is "flow through" for the purpose of cooling.

Willie


----------



## 68nova

MarshallDog, unfortunately, my wood working skills are better than my playing. I am a carpenters assistant working for a remodeling firm. I really can't say how long it took to do, cause I would work on it here and there, ordering stuff as I went along.

Ken, since my playing skills aren't that great, I will not be posting any clips unless I can get my brother-in-law over to play. He is a very good player.

Willie, that is what I was thinking also for more ventilation. Need to check if I have any grill cloth left over before I make any modifications to the front though.


----------



## ken361

c19 make any difference cut if the volume is high? or gain pass 5


----------



## Bownse

Are the dual cabs wired for the proper resistance match to the amp? I'm asking because I'm wondering if 8ohm plugged into the 16ohm jack (or some such) might be causing the squeel.


----------



## ken361

ken361 said:


> c19 make any difference cut if the volume is high? or gain pass 5


thanks for the ZERO answers!


----------



## Screamin Willie

Easy, man. It's the weekend.

C19 only affects the OD channel. The effect is not affected by the volume. The effect is affected by the gain. The higher the gain the less the effect. It is pretty much unnoticeable with the gain past 50%.

Of course, you would already know this if you had done your homework.

Willie


----------



## 68nova

Ken, I haven't had a chance to turn it up much yet. I do know that I have the volume and gain set the exact same on both channels, and the c19 mod makes the red channel much more useable to me. I can switch channels and not have to turn down the red channel. That is not to say they are the same volume, but more useable, if that makes sense. I guess it acts like a boost. Red channel is way less harsh. But like I said, haven't been able to really test it out at volumes.

Bownse, both speakers are 16 ohm. The squeel was caused by the dead power tube. When I put the originals back in it was fine.


----------



## ken361

After watching Pete thorn's new video on running the delay up front like the old school days I decided to try it. I always find running straight in sounds best 

Adding the loop some amps sound better then other's by beeing more transparent. The dsl is pretty good but I was loosing a tad of gain and dynamics. With low output of single coils it was noticeable. 

I using it for a slight echo only keep in mind.Delays are much more dominant running straight in keep in mine and this is the only pedal I have but the tone rings out better and not BRIGHT!


----------



## Bownse

Interesting observation about SIDS tubes. I went through several when I first got the DSL40C. I always had the Marshall's (JJs) as backup but even with biasing every swap, I think tubes were lasting about 2 months at first. One or the other would die (IMO) far too soon.

The last set I got have been cruising along fine for many months (9/8/2015) now and are acting more like the tubes I had in my Fender Bassman back in the 70s.

Pulling my log, I see that the biggest difference was taking it to an amp pro and letting him check everything (and not just the bias).


----------



## Snow and Steel

If mine ate tubes every 2 months I'd be royally peeved. I biased my own amp, so I know exactly how well it was biased and I bought good tubes. If I find myself sinking $100 into it every 2 months I'll be getting rid of it.

My previous Marshall I replaced the tubes in it when I got it, then did 2 tours and never replaced the tubes ONCE. It was getting played 3-4 hours a night, 5 nights a week for several months on end! I checked them before I sold the amp and they were still showing excellent life.

There is no reason for the amp t be eating through the tubes that fast unless;
-the tubes themselves are bad - this might happen once but not all the time
-there is something wrong with the amp [bias drift, parts out of tolerance, etc etc]


----------



## MarshallDog

ken361 said:


> c19 make any difference cut if the volume is high? or gain pass 5



Sorry, I guess I read this and thought of it as a statement, not a question.

For me...no!! IMHO, this is one dam ass brite aggressive sounding amp stock. All I do is raise the tone knob on my LPS's from 6 to 7/8 when playing at lower volumes, its the best mod available for this amp IMO.


----------



## tman

I just ordered a new op trans and choke for my DSL40c. Did anybody else do this??Does it change the tone at all?


----------



## MarshallDog

tman said:


> I just ordered a new op trans and choke for my DSL40c. Did anybody else do this??Does it change the tone at all?



ClassicTone?

I put the ClassicTone choke in mine and thought it helped the low end and punch of the bass freq. Not that big a deal!!!


----------



## Micky

tman said:


> I just ordered a new op trans and choke for my DSL40c. Did anybody else do this??Does it change the tone at all?


You obviously have not read this thread...


----------



## tman

Micky said:


> You obviously have not read this thread...


No I really didnt take the time to read all of it just wanted to say I ordered one and Im excited to put it in the amp. I like the tone I have but if it makes it that much better I was just curious.


----------



## Micky

tman said:


> No I really didnt take the time to read all of it just wanted to say I ordered one and Im excited to put it in the amp. I like the tone I have but if it makes it that much better I was just curious.


If you had taken the time to start at the beginning of the thread, you would realize that there are many others who have already done your homework for you. I am not saying this because I started the thread, but because there have been so many EXCELLENT contributors it is a travesty to have ignored them on purpose. There are many great photos as well, and you may actually find the read kinda interesting.

It is a tribute to all those who came before you, and required reading if you own a DSL40c...


----------



## ken361

MarshallDog said:


> Sorry, I guess I read this and thought of it as a statement, not a question.
> 
> For me...no!! IMHO, this is one dam ass brite aggressive sounding amp stock. All I do is raise the tone knob on my LPS's from 6 to 7/8 when playing at lower volumes, its the best mod available for this amp IMO.


Im not cutting it mine sounded great over the weekend and taking the delay out of the loop its not as bright! RCA v1 v2 RFT v3 Slyvania v4 Sovtek LPS Gold lions and the Tungsols work just fine in the v1 though


----------



## MarshallDog

tman said:


> No I really didnt take the time to read all of it just wanted to say I ordered one and Im excited to put it in the amp. I like the tone I have but if it makes it that much better I was just curious.



Which brand did you order??


----------



## Bownse

Snow and Steel said:


> If mine ate tubes every 2 months I'd be royally peeved. I biased my own amp, so I know exactly how well it was biased and I bought good tubes. If I find myself sinking $100 into it every 2 months I'll be getting rid of it.
> 
> My previous Marshall I replaced the tubes in it when I got it, then did 2 tours and never replaced the tubes ONCE. It was getting played 3-4 hours a night, 5 nights a week for several months on end! I checked them before I sold the amp and they were still showing excellent life.
> 
> There is no reason for the amp t be eating through the tubes that fast unless;
> -the tubes themselves are bad - this might happen once but not all the time
> -there is something wrong with the amp [bias drift, parts out of tolerance, etc etc]



And I don't disagree with that statement.

If you look at the printout, you'll see that I only went through that once. I also bias my own tubes to make sure they're done right. The luthier who hacks on amps grudgingly did a piss poor job when I had the amp checked after buying it used. I determined to do it myself and invest in an Eurotubes Pro One bias probe to make quicker (and safer) work of it.

I may have over-stated the issue by saying something like "every time" off the top of my head where the print out shows it was once. I'll attribute that to my reaction being the same as yours and the motivator to take it to a pro who builds and repairs tube amps (and mix boards for studios, etc.) as his ONLY job.

I figured that it might be a bad tube or it might be something in the amp (because I'd read about drift on some 40c units). I knew if I took it to a pro who went through it all while he had it, then at least my confidence level would be higher going forward.


----------



## jlinde1973

tman said:


> I just ordered a new op trans and choke for my DSL40c. Did anybody else do this??Does it change the tone at all?


It definitely did on my jvm...I'm sure your dsl is no different. It's subtle...but does help. Well worth the $30. What henry did u order?


----------



## tman

MarshallDog said:


> Which brand did you order??


I got the classic tones | 40-18025 | Marshall Style 50W Output Transformer and the choke is classictones | 40-18058 | Marshall Vintage Plexi Style 3 Hy Choke


----------



## tman

Micky said:


> If you had taken the time to start at the beginning of the thread, you would realize that there are many others who have already done your homework for you. I am not saying this because I started the thread, but because there have been so many EXCELLENT contributors it is a travesty to have ignored them on purpose. There are many great photos as well, and you may actually find the read kinda interesting.
> 
> It is a tribute to all those who came before you, and required reading if you own a DSL40c...


Ill go back and read the thread thanks


----------



## krb813

I'm looking to install a Creamback speaker with 8 screw holes in place of the stock speaker which has 4 holes. Will there be a weight/support problem using just 4 of the screw holes on the Creamback?

Thanks


----------



## Screamin Willie

Nope. Four screw mounting is pretty much standard.

Willie


----------



## krb813

Thanks Willie. I appreciate the feedback.

-Kevin


----------



## jlinde1973

tman said:


> I got the classic tones | 40-18025 | Marshall Style 50W Output Transformer and the choke is classictones | 40-18058 | Marshall Vintage Plexi Style 3 Hy Choke


The 3h will be a little saggier and less bass prenounced than the larger ones. 10h would probably be too stiff sounding..It should sound killer with the dsl. You'll definitely have that plexi vibe. Good choice man!


----------



## tman

jlinde1973 said:


> The 3h will be a little saggier and less bass prenounced than the larger ones. 10h would probably be too stiff sounding..It should sound killer with the dsl. You'll definitely have that plexi vibe. Good choice man!


Thank you sir


----------



## c00lkatz

tman said:


> I got the classic tones | 40-18025 | Marshall Style 50W Output Transformer and the choke is classictones | 40-18058 | Marshall Vintage Plexi Style 3 Hy Choke


Well you bought the right parts. I did both to mine, along with changing several of the caps for Sprague Orange Drop and Mallory 150. Also did the C19 mod, changed out the tubes, and changed the speaker to a Vintage 30.

Let your own ears decide, but I wasn't impressed with the OT, choke, and caps. The tubes, C19 mod, and speaker did the trick for me. The rest of it I wouldn't bother with again if I were to do it over. You can see my thread about it a few pages back, and several others have posted more photos and such as well.


----------



## tman

c00lkatz said:


> Well you bought the right parts. I did both to mine, along with changing several of the caps for Sprague Orange Drop and Mallory 150. Also did the C19 mod, changed out the tubes, and changed the speaker to a Vintage 30.
> 
> Let your own ears decide, but I wasn't impressed with the OT, choke, and caps. The tubes, C19 mod, and speaker did the trick for me. The rest of it I wouldn't bother with again if I were to do it over. You can see my thread about it a few pages back, and several others have posted more photos and such as well.


Yeah I already did tube changes to old Mullard long plate and amprex bugle boys and speakers changes.I hook it up through 4x`12 cab and the c19 i cut out also. I put a Classic tones OP trans in another smaller 5 watt tbe amp I modded and it made that amp sound better it got punchier to my ears so Im hoping this op trans will do same thing and with the choke improve the sound and tone even ore then it already is.What didnt you like about the op trans how did it change the amp that you were not impressed??


----------



## MarshallDog

Anyone using the "Tone Shift" button on your DSL40C?? I tried it and it seems ti take away all those high harsh upper tones. Just curious??


----------



## tman

MarshallDog said:


> Anyone using the "Tone Shift" button on your DSL40C?? I tried it and it seems ti take away all those high harsh upper tones. Just curious??


I use it sometimes i like it for certain things.


----------



## Micky

MarshallDog said:


> Anyone using the "Tone Shift" button on your DSL40C?? I tried it and it seems ti take away all those high harsh upper tones. Just curious??


I use it when I switch from my LP to my Strat or Tele.


----------



## Bownse

krb813 said:


> I'm looking to install a Creamback speaker with 8 screw holes in place of the stock speaker which has 4 holes. Will there be a weight/support problem using just 4 of the screw holes on the Creamback?
> 
> Thanks



I've had no problems even with the 75watt variant (heavier).


----------



## Snow and Steel

I don't like the tone shift - seems like all it does is suck out more mids and I don't think the amp needs any help in that!


----------



## MarshallDog

Snow and Steel said:


> I don't like the tone shift - seems like all it does is suck out more mids and I don't think the amp needs any help in that!



Thats interesring, i have my mids set at 5 treble at 3.3 bass at 6 presence at 4 and resonance at 6 play with a less paul with treble on 5 and it still seems sreatchy when cranked up and i have a creamback and the darkest tubes I can find. I just dont get it other than i am losing the love for this amp and it may go down the road soon.


----------



## tman

MarshallDog said:


> Thats interesring, i have my mids set at 5 treble at 3.3 bass at 6 presence at 4 and resonance at 6 play with a less paul with treble on 5 and it still seems sreatchy when cranked up and i have a creamback and the darkest tubes I can find. I just dont get it other than i am losing the love for this amp and it may go down the road soon.


Not sure why brother I have same amp and I have no problems with what your expericing at all very strabge


----------



## Micky

MarshallDog said:


> Thats interesring, i have my mids set at 5 treble at 3.3 bass at 6 presence at 4 and resonance at 6 play with a less paul with treble on 5 and it still seems sreatchy when cranked up and i have a creamback and the darkest tubes I can find. I just dont get it other than i am losing the love for this amp and it may go down the road soon.


So much of a players 'tone' has to do with subjective things it is sometimes hard to compare.
Also things like guitar, pickups, room acoustics and many other factors like playing style and string selection contribute to the differences we all hear. And than again, maybe the amp is not for you.

Personally I have always found Marshalls to be able to cut thru the mix because of their treble and scooped mids. Kinda nice really.
I just wish I was a lead guitarist...


----------



## ken361

what are the dark tubes your using OP?


----------



## Screamin Willie

Some folks consider the JJ tubes to be on the dark side. There may be others.

Willie


----------



## ken361

JJ 83's are dull IMO I take those right out every amp I owned lol. The stocks are JJ BTW


----------



## TheCrunge

MarshallDog said:


> Anyone using the "Tone Shift" button on your DSL40C?? I tried it and it seems ti take away all those high harsh upper tones. Just curious??



My band just started practicing in my finished basement. We're switching between mine & the drummers un-finished basement every week or so. 
Over at his house my amp sounded great. I dialed it in pretty good with my Schecter. Then at my house it was totally off. I had to tweak almost all the dials. I tried the tone shift and I might have to go with it just at my house.
It's amazing how different this amp can sound depending on it's surroundings (carpet, drywall/brick, cieling tiles, etc..)


----------



## ken361

TheCrunge said:


> My band just started practicing in my finished basement. We're switching between mine & the drummers un-finished basement every week or so.
> Over at his house my amp sounded great. I dialed it in pretty good with my Schecter. Then at my house it was totally off. I had to tweak almost all the dials. I tried the tone shift and I might have to go with it just at my house.
> It's amazing how different this amp can sound depending on it's surroundings (carpet, drywall/brick, cieling tiles, etc..)


I say that all the time how much my amp sounds better at the girls condo finished basement, more fuller and fatter sounding. My house unfinished basement older house,lacks the bass


----------



## Bownse

MarshallDog said:


> Thats interesring, i have my mids set at 5 treble at 3.3 bass at 6 presence at 4 and resonance at 6 play with a less paul with treble on 5 and it still seems sreatchy when cranked up and i have a creamback and the darkest tubes I can find. I just dont get it other than i am losing the love for this amp and it may go down the road soon.



Try placing the amp where it is on the floor and "bridges" a corner (45º to leave a good air gap at the back). This works on all kinds of speakers.

Adapting to the room is normal. Acoustics (and sound "men") are a big business for just that reason. Think it of another facet of learning your instrument.


----------



## MarshallDog

ken361 said:


> what are the dark tubes your using OP?



Well, Ive tried almost everything but right now I have a Jan 5751 in V1 (to help reduce some gain), V2. V3 & V4 EH and JJ KT77's for the power tubes.

I bias at 70% based on voltage of course. I wonder if going to 60% might help???


----------



## ken361

Cant hurt lowering a tad should warm the red a little, is yours bright? EH are decent but prefer old stock warmth. Sovtek LPS is a good tube too for the PI


----------



## MarshallDog

ken361 said:


> Cant hurt lowering a tad should warm the red a little, is yours bright? EH are decent but prefer old stock warmth. Sovtek LPS is a good tube too for the PI



Yes, bright...I may have to try that Sovtek LPS I ve read many places they are great for the PI. What do you mean in reagrds to the TAD???


----------



## ken361

Meant lowering it a bit, running anything in the loop? found my echo/delay was making it brighter


----------



## MarshallDog

ken361 said:


> Meant lowering it a bit, running anything in the loop? found my echo/delay was making it brighter



OK got it lowering the bias a bit...may try it. Running nothing in the loop. What I mean by bright is maybe more harsh when playing up on the neck on the high E string. My other amps do not sound this harsh at all...


----------



## ken361

Sounds like somethings wrong maybe, check the bias and plate voltage/chart and set it just near the hot side. Could play one at a store and see if its any different


----------



## Snow and Steel

I can tell you on mine I turn the presence completely OFF, the amp doesn't need any more highs.

I also turn the resonance OFF - that's bass player region. It takes more juice to push lows than anything else, and its not helping the sound at all in a band context.

I run the bass and lows about '4', and the mids at '10'. try it.


----------



## ken361

RCA,v1 RFTv2 sounding good


----------



## SteelLucky

RFT in v2 is the ticket. Just do not put them in v3, I burnt 2 of them up in v3 tube rolling as they went microphonic very quick there (still crying about that.) I run Mesa SPAx7 in v1,v3 & v4 now with a Celesion V-Type for the speaker and just love to crank this amp now. Makes me want to play more.


----------



## Tomteriffic

krb813 said:


> Can someone give me some feedback on the DSL40C at Sweetwater with the Creamback speaker? I've heard the regular DSL40C. Is there a big difference?
> 
> Thanks



I tried both, side by side, in person at Sweetwater. Now, there's no getting around the subjective nature of language but... The one with the Creamback sounded softer in the top end, more refined, if you will. I found the 70/80 to be extremely harsh in comparison. But the 70/80 amp sounded more muscular, tough, immediate, responsive and a better amp all around, in spite of (rather than because of) the speaker. The Creamback one sounded entirely too civilized, and I'm not a flame-throwing, death-dealing, Mount Doom kind of player at all. Really, there was a drastic difference between the two.

However, I'm pretty sure that what I was hearing, beyond the simple frequency response issues, was the variability of the build quality, component tolerances, that sort of thing. I wound up bringing the 70/80 amp home and changing the speaker to a Warehouse Guitar Speakers Veteran 30. I'm happy. Although I'll probably succumb to some tube futzing and tail-chasing at some point, I don't really see a need to fix what ain't broke right now.

And I do wish they made a head.


----------



## Knopfler

krb813 said:


> Can someone give me some feedback on the DSL40C at Sweetwater with the Creamback speaker? I've heard the regular DSL40C. Is there a big difference?
> 
> Thanks


----------



## ken361

Anyone using a boost pedal with single coils? prb causes more noise huh? I have Fat 50's there pretty quite most of the time,depends were im at. Not sure on a clean boost or a mild OD pedal. Prefer a true bypass BTW. There is a cheap Boss ds1 at GC for 20.00 not true bypass though.


----------



## wolfpack

Tomteriffic said:


> I tried both, side by side, in person at Sweetwater. Now, there's no getting around the subjective nature of language but... The one with the Creamback sounded softer in the top end, more refined, if you will. I found the 70/80 to be extremely harsh in comparison. But the 70/80 amp sounded more muscular, tough, immediate, responsive and a better amp all around, in spite of (rather than because of) the speaker. The Creamback one sounded entirely too civilized, and I'm not a flame-throwing, death-dealing, Mount Doom kind of player at all. Really, there was a drastic difference between the two.



I also prefer the 70/80 to the creamback for the same reasons.
Breaking that stock speaker in, biasing the power tubes & changing a few of the pre's made mine a kick ass rock machine.
The harshness is completely gone.


----------



## BanditPanda

ken361 said:


> Anyone using a boost pedal with single coils? prb causes more noise huh? I have Fat 50's there pretty quite most of the time,depends were im at. Not sure on a clean boost or a mild OD pedal. Prefer a true bypass BTW. There is a cheap Boss ds1 at GC for 20.00 not true bypass though.



Hi Ken. I have 2 Tele's ( one with Lollars & one with Bill Lawrence Microcoils ) and the boost I use is the EH LPB-1. Check it out. Clean power boost. Put it in front of your fave OD pedal and prepare to be wowed.
No noise what so ever.
B.P.


----------



## rlowe

Knopfler said:


>



The 70/80 does sound stronger and harshness fades when broken in. Roll some tubes and the amp can sound better! After breaking the 70/80 in after some time, I rolled some tubes and it sounded good. Eventually I installed a Celestion Vintage 30 much fuller, more robust.


----------



## ken361

BanditPanda said:


> Hi Ken. I have 2 Tele's ( one with Lollars & one with Bill Lawrence Microcoils ) and the boost I use is the EH LPB-1. Check it out. Clean power boost. Put it in front of your fave OD pedal and prepare to be wowed.
> No noise what so ever.
> B.P.


i seen the vids lastnight I want to use it to boost the lead 1 and the crunch


----------



## BanditPanda

ken361 said:


> i seen the vids lastnight I want to use it to boost the lead 1 and the crunch


In that case you could run that pedal thru your effects loop which means it will hit the power section ( by passing the preamp when in the loop )


----------



## dquill78

Hey guys. I am thinking about getting a DSL40c from sweetwater with the creamback. My guitar is an ESP Viper 1000 with an EMG 81 at the bridge and an EMG 85 at the neck. Does anyone use this amp with active pickups? I'm guessing I'll have to mod c19 since these pickup are already really bright.


----------



## mtsalmela80

Quick tech question, for the foot switch, which part of the plug switches the channel, the tip or the ring? Experimenting with controlling the channel switching through my rack FX unit...


----------



## Allaeius

Our DSL40C arrived yesterday. The amp is very flexible, I can go from crystal clean to modern heavy metal with the help of a distortion pedal. The ultra high gain channel just doesn't suit my tastes for heavy metals. I do think that it's the speakers fault. It's not as robust at low volume.

For now, I'm not looking to mod it in anyway, but I'm curious about the triode mode. I'm a 100% bedroom player and the triode mode is very interesting.

However, I've always that it could shorten the lifespan of the tubes and changing to triode mode requires you to change/decrease the impedance of the speaker output. Is this correct?

In short, what is the correct procedure and precautions that must be taken to go into triode mode?


----------



## Micky

The different modes should not affect normal tube life.
Put the amp either in OFF or Standby, then flip the half-power switch.
Then turn on the amp and rock on!


----------



## Screamin Willie

In addition to what Micky has stated, you do not need to change the speaker impedance.

You may want to review the user manual. The pentode/triode mode is covered in the user manual.

Willie


----------



## Richard M.

Hey there--new member, new DSL 40 C owner. Have a concern--when I run my amp fairly loud [Classic gain , crunch engaged; or Ultra gain, volume at 4+] there is a discernible 'splat', specifically the B, 9th fret, D string (standard tuning). Oddly specific, I know. Is this anomaly possibly occurring in the V1 and the result of an inferior/faulty preamp tube? Other than that, the amp sounds glorious and I've had no other issues. Thoughts?


----------



## Allaeius

Micky said:


> The different modes should not affect normal tube life.
> Put the amp either in OFF or Standby, then flip the half-power switch.
> Then turn on the amp and rock on!





Screamin Willie said:


> In addition to what Micky has stated, you do not need to change the speaker impedance.
> 
> You may want to review the user manual. The pentode/triode mode is covered in the user manual.
> 
> Willie



Thanks, I did read the manual a few times but after that it gets a little confusing after digging around for more info.

Apart from that, I'm looking to get an EQ pedal to get more flexibility on the tone itself. I thought of looking for a new distortion pedal too, one that is better than my current (Behringer UM300), but I feel that the amp itself have more than enough gain to do that. Only thing that's holding it back is the lack of a more versatile EQ, IMO.


----------



## Allaeius

Patrick1959 said:


> One thing I've noticed, ceiling fans have an effect on the sound. Thanks for the suggestions.


That's something I should look out for the next time time I'm playing.

It's gonna be hella hot though.


----------



## Bownse

I've found that choosing a short amp stand avoids interference. I think the fan would break before the amp would though.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

dquill78 said:


> Hey guys. I am thinking about getting a DSL40c from sweetwater with the creamback. My guitar is an ESP Viper 1000 with an EMG 81 at the bridge and an EMG 85 at the neck. Does anyone use this amp with active pickups? I'm guessing I'll have to mod c19 since these pickup are already really bright.


Yeah I have. It'll be great depending what you want. I rarely use clean so I push the front with an OD and use Ch 1 in Crunch mode. Not the best with active PU if you want clean. BUt if you want clean why have active PU?? C19 helps. I have a V30 as well so can't say about the stock speaker.


----------



## BanditPanda

Hey guys..just been reading and listening on another thread where members have been taking delivery of the mini jub head. In Canada it costs 1500$ + tax which puts it easily over 1650 CAD.!
This for just the head mind you.
So my question to you : Is the tone and capabilities of the mini jub really so far superior to that of the DSL 40C at basically 3 times to cost ( or 2 times the cost depending ) ?
Of course it's subjective and we all have our quirks but speaking in general terms what's your opinion?
I listened to the U Tube demo that was offered, mini jub thru a Bogner 2 x12 with an LP and it had great tone and crispness but I'm not convinced that the same could not be squeezed out of the DSL40C


----------



## ken361

I played the DSL 100 with a cheap Marshall cab next to the Jub half stack, think I liked the DSL more for its added bite and gain. Thought the Jub would have tone from the heaven's wasn't that blown away. I'm sure if the speakers were broken in and spent more time on May change my mind. DSL is good deal!


----------



## ken361

Tried the new Friedman pedal through the clean channel on the DSL 100,lots of gain,dynamics more low end at low volume at GC.


----------



## BanditPanda

Any players here doing any ZZ Top numbers?. Interested more in their live sound. Got the LP. Got the Marshall DSL 40C.
Wanna tell me where to go (lol) settings wise to get that Reverend Billy Gibbons sound ( approximate of course ).
Know all about Pearly Gates, tone is the fingers etc., etc. Just looking for some guide lines


----------



## Bownse

First step in getting Gibbon's sound is use a quarter for a pick.


----------



## Len

BanditPanda said:


> Any players here doing any ZZ Top numbers?. Interested more in their live sound. Got the LP. Got the Marshall DSL 40C.
> Wanna tell me where to go (lol) settings wise to get that Reverend Billy Gibbons sound ( approximate of course ).
> Know all about Pearly Gates, tone is the fingers etc., etc. Just looking for some guide lines


All settings at noon will get you close.


----------



## BanditPanda

Bownse said:


> First step in getting Gibbon's sound is use a quarter for a pick.


No man gotta use a peso !! lol


----------



## BanditPanda

Len said:


> All settings at noon will get you close.


Seriously ? Which channel, which setting?


----------



## ken361

wondering if its necessary to to check the plate voltage on both power tubes or one is fine enough thanks


----------



## Screamin Willie

I always check both just to make sure there is no weirdness going on. I usually see a difference of a volt or two.

Willie


----------



## Len

BanditPanda said:


> Seriously ? Which channel, which setting?


I used the red channel, although my amp is modified (C19, head conversion, choke).


----------



## ken361

ken361 said:


> wondering if its necessary to to check the plate voltage on both power tubes or one is fine enough thanks


bump


----------



## MarshallDog

ken361 said:


> bump



My opinion yes. Because if you do only one and it is lower and you bias to that one the other tube could be biased yo high which is not good.


----------



## ken361

A friend helped me last time he had the tube socket, I need to get a inexpensive meter might go with tube depot and get the socket also. One of the wires i think it was the red seemed iffy touching it,kinda hard getting to it with the prob thats why I should get the socket I feel safer think the brown wire was easier getting too. Have to look at it again. Thanks again


----------



## MarshallDog

ken361 said:


> A friend helped me last time he had the tube socket, I need to get a inexpensive meter might go with tube depot and get the socket also. One of the wires i think it was the red seemed iffy touching it,kinda hard getting to it with the prob thats why I should get the socket I feel safer think the brown wire was easier getting too. Have to look at it again. Thanks again



I use the Weber BiasRite meter. Its easy, safe and not that expensive.


----------



## rlowe

BanditPanda said:


> Seriously ? Which channel, which setting?


I use the green (clean) channel with a high output (is what I use) overdrive. You can use any od i.e. tube screamer. Maybe boost the green (crunch) channel with one of these pedals. The green channels sound more dynamic or organic when boosted with a good pedal. Yes Indeed!


----------



## BanditPanda

rlowe said:


> I use the green (clean) channel with a high output (is what I use) overdrive. You can use any od i.e. tube screamer. Maybe boost the green (crunch) channel with one of these pedals. The green channels sound more dynamic or organic when boosted with a good pedal. Yes Indeed!


Good to hear. I also prefer the green & clean with my O/D pedals however the LP is rather dark sounding in comparison to say ZZ in 1980
I've got a Treble Booster on the way and that may be just what the Reverend ordered. lol.
Thanks for the reply.
BP


----------



## Bownse

I've been liking the flexibility of my TC Electronics, John Petrucci Dreamscape. 

Lots of shaping options but also bright/normal/dark tone switching.

http://www.guitarworld.com/review-tc-electronic-john-petrucci-dreamscape-signature-toneprint-pedal


----------



## BanditPanda

Bownse said:


> I've been liking the flexibility of my TC Electronics, John Petrucci Dreamscape.
> 
> Lots of shaping options but also bright/normal/dark tone switching.
> 
> http://www.guitarworld.com/review-tc-electronic-john-petrucci-dreamscape-signature-toneprint-pedal


Thank you Bownse ! I recently purchased what I think is the best sounding O/D I have ever heard, being the Wampler Tumnus.
I've been watching this ZZ show from 1980 the DVD called Live In Germany 1980 and the Les Paul sounds kind of, for want of a better word " light ", or maybe lacking in the lower register to some extent. Mr Gibbons was known to use the Dallas Range Master Treble boost.
Of course that effect was used by many notables such as Eric Clapton, Brian May. Jeff Beck and more than likely Jimmy Page.
I thought I'd give it a whirl. I chose the Analogman Beano.
Sorry guys..I shouldn't be talking effects in the DSL 40C! Just trying to learn the best settings with the DSL 40C
BP


----------



## BanditPanda

Bownse said:


> I've been liking the flexibility of my TC Electronics, John Petrucci Dreamscape.
> 
> Lots of shaping options but also bright/normal/dark tone switching.
> 
> http://www.guitarworld.com/review-tc-electronic-john-petrucci-dreamscape-signature-toneprint-pedal


By the way that is a very impressive pedal you got there with multi effects and USB. Come along way have our pedals !!


----------



## Allaeius

Bownse said:


> I've found that choosing a short amp stand avoids interference. I think the fan would break before the amp would though.


I do kinda like having the amp slightly facing upwards towards my head, gives me a better idea of the sound. Would that have the same effect as using a stand amp though? I mean, in a way that it "avoids interference"?


----------



## rlowe

BanditPanda said:


> Good to hear. I also prefer the green & clean with my O/D pedals however the LP is rather dark sounding in comparison to say ZZ in 1980
> I've got a Treble Booster on the way and that may be just what the Reverend ordered. lol.
> Thanks for the reply.
> BP


I use this pedal as an xtra on my board. High output more of an upper midrange. Based on old Klon pedal. Review:


----------



## rlowe

Allaeius said:


> I do kinda like having the amp slightly facing upwards towards my head, gives me a better idea of the sound. Would that have the same effect as using a stand amp though? I mean, in a way that it "avoids interference"?


I dont know about the fan part of the conversation, but I do know from experience that putting an amp (dsl 40c) on a stand not touching the floor IMHO does not sound as good. It loses bass, range, and that dsl clarity that makes the amp sound good. If you keep the amp slightly tilted, but still touching the floor you will still keep this clarity of sound. Just like apples and oranges! which do you prefer.


----------



## BanditPanda

I do use an amp stand with my DSL40 and have not noticed an inferior sound when compared to a floor based amp.
In fact rather than the sound hitting my ankles and back of the knees it is more elevated and the sound is reaching my ears more directly. It lends to the crispness and clarity, for my taste.
As an added plus the amps controls are right at finger tip level if this has any relevance. lol


----------



## BanditPanda

rlowe said:


> I use this pedal as an xtra on my board. High output more of an upper midrange. Based on old Klon pedal. Review:





Ah yes the Archer. Looked long and hard at it with many listenings and reviews. Great pedal. Good choice.


----------



## Bownse

rlowe said:


> I dont know about the fan part of the conversation



it was meant as a joke. clearly i was too subtle.

as in PHYSICAL interferance because the stand was so tall the blades of the fan hit it.

Nevermind...


----------



## rlowe

Bownse said:


> it was meant as a joke. clearly i was too subtle.
> 
> as in PHYSICAL interferance because the stand was so tall the blades of the fan hit it.
> 
> Nevermind...


Ahh! that was it... but if you could train those blades to keep a beat then you would be in business!


----------



## ken361

Buddy sent this link, a guy that makes head cabinets for the 40c 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/rawcabs-pin...048184?hash=item43f558d3f8:g:uoMAAOSwFqJWsjNx


----------



## Screamin Willie

ken361 said:


> Buddy sent this link, a guy that makes head cabinets for the 40c
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/rawcabs-pin...048184?hash=item43f558d3f8:g:uoMAAOSwFqJWsjNx



I did a lot of research into getting a head cabinet made. I looked at these and considering the cost of the materials for a standard black tolex/grill cloth finish, decided to against it.

I had a good experience with http://sourmashguitarcabs.com/ getting a head cabinet made.

Willie


----------



## rlowe

This may be a bit off topic dsl40c that is, but a couple of months earlier I purchased then posted a vid about the EH silencer noise gate. About a week after using the pedal it would crackle and buzz when I engaged it, or touched the cables with the pedal failing at times. I had Sweetwater replace it only to have this one do the same. I use Mogami and some live wire patch cables so I say what the heck, they work fine with my other pedals, but not with this pedal. I have tried about everything same results. I think for $65.00 you get what you pay for, and I will be getting a credit for this pedal towards a MXR noise gate, or something else.


----------



## BanditPanda

rlowe said:


> This may be a bit off topic dsl40c that is, but a couple of months earlier I purchased then posted a vid about the EH silencer noise gate. About a week after using the pedal it would crackle and buzz when I engaged it, or touched the cables with the pedal failing at times. I had Sweetwater replace it only to have this one do the same. I use Mogami and some live wire patch cables so I say what the heck, they work fine with my other pedals, but not with this pedal. I have tried about everything same results. I think for $65.00 you get what you pay for, and I will be getting a credit for this pedal towards a MXR noise gate, or something else.



I presume you are running it with a power block of some kind? Does it do the same thing when running off of battery power?


----------



## Bownse

rlowe said:


> This may be a bit off topic dsl40c that is, but a couple of months earlier I purchased then posted a vid about the EH silencer noise gate. About a week after using the pedal it would crackle and buzz when I engaged it, or touched the cables with the pedal failing at times. I had Sweetwater replace it only to have this one do the same. I use Mogami and some live wire patch cables so I say what the heck, they work fine with my other pedals, but not with this pedal. I have tried about everything same results. I think for $65.00 you get what you pay for, and I will be getting a credit for this pedal towards a MXR noise gate, or something else.



Bummer. I got the same box after reading a review here. (Don't know if it was yours but the timing seems about right.)

Been using mine without a problem but I usually am not stomping on it (or even turning it off) so perhaps mine isn't getting the mechanical workout yours has.

I'm using mine with AC power on a 5-gang combo adapter, a basic power strip, and a Furman power strip up stream from that.


----------



## rlowe

BanditPanda said:


> I presume you are running it with a power block of some kind? Does it do the same thing when running off of battery power?


Actually I have tried both and still the same result. Maybe a bad batch I just don't know!


----------



## rlowe

Bownse said:


> Bummer. I got the same box after reading a review here. (Don't know if it was yours but the timing seems about right.)
> 
> *Been using mine without a problem but I usually am not stomping on it (or even turning it off) so perhaps mine isn't getting the mechanical workout yours has.
> 
> I'm using mine with AC power on a 5-gang combo adapter, a basic power strip, and a Furman power strip up stream from that.*


I remember posting the ElectroHarmonix review a while back. The first pedal would die when switch pressed and if you moved, or touched the cords they would crackle. The second pedal produced the crackle when touched, or moving the cord. I have used battery, and single 9v adapter with Furman power strip, but still the same result. Anyway's this pedal will be exchanged soon!


----------



## Bownse

Mine's not the first or last pedal in the string, so no stress on the jacks. No stomping the switch so no mechanical stress there, too. Bad soldering, maybe?


----------



## ken361

Picked up a mini ts808 tube screamer yesterday for my single coil strat have to try loud yet but it does beef the gain up on them single coils. I want to use it on the red 1 with the gain low on the pedal and not too much added noise. I also tried the TC Spark boost both seem to add some gain but i noticed the tube screamer broke up the clean channel nicely opposed to the clean boost just staying clean. 65.00 new the manager hooked me up


----------



## solarburn

Guys put some clips up with your pedals. This amp loves good pedals. Post them up! I wanna hear what yer getting. Fuck the dress up.LOL


----------



## solarburn

Straight into amp with no boost. Bit of delay.



Green clean channel amp gain maxed with Marvel Drive boosting.


----------



## ken361

Exchanged the TS for TC spark boost,has more low end.Crank it Saturday let ya all know the out come


----------



## Len

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Straight into amp with no boost. Bit of delay.
> 
> 
> 
> Green clean channel amp gain maxed with Marvel Drive boosting.



Is the amp stock?


----------



## MarshallDog

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Straight into amp with no boost. Bit of delay.
> 
> 
> 
> Green clean channel amp gain maxed with Marvel Drive boosting.




Sounds good!!! What were the amp setting and guitar settings including what pup, bridge or neck??


----------



## solarburn

MarshallDog said:


> Sounds good!!! What were the amp setting and guitar settings including what pup, bridge or neck??



Lead 2:Best I can remember and usually where I keep it with my ESP1000 and Fender Tele Gold Top.

Gain=3
Treble=3
Middle=7
Bass=6
Presence=4
Resonance=6
Volume=3

Bridge=Super Distortion
Neck=Paf Joe

I toggled through the bridge/neck pups only adjusting guitar volume.


----------



## solarburn

Len said:


> Is the amp stock?



Only change is V1 preamp tube to an AC7HG+. High Grade not High Gain.


----------



## ken361

Dropped a pair of tungsol 34s in very dynamic. Little bright so let's see in a 24 hr burn in. Also got a mxr compressor it beefs the red channel up


----------



## EricDunno

Hey fellas! I've been following this thread and I've decided to join in since I'm also a DSL40c lover!
Although I have it for a couple months, I'm still figuring it out everyday, therefore, as it is only natural, there are a few things I'd like to change and I'm not sure how to change them. 
For starters, which mod can I do to change the useless reverb control on the footswitch for, say, clean to crunch and od1 to od2?
and what are your favorite valves/speaker for it?


----------



## ken361

cant switch those modes, either only crunch or clean on channel 1 and channel 2 red 1 or red 2 one reason for the lower cost


----------



## Bownse

As for tubes. It's like asking what is "best" in any category of anything. It's entirely up to the user. There are discussions in this thread about what different people have tried and (dis)liked with their reasoning; far too many to repeat in a summary post.

That being said, here's my tube log:


----------



## EricDunno

I see, thank you guys for your quick answer! I meant 'the best' as your personal experience.  
thank you for that table, it is uberly helpful.


----------



## Bownse

I knew that would be the only solution for me over the long term to remember what changes I had made and the differences they made.

DSL40c Knob Settings:
G-1, V, 6, G-4, V-2, T/M/B-3, P/R-0, C/U-10

E-H Silencer (clock setings):
V-10, TOP BOOST-11, TREB-11, MID-1, BASS-2, DIST-2, BOOST-OFF

Nails the intro tone of Alice Cooper's, "No More Mr. Nice Guy".

Strat on just the bridge pickup. LP Trad Pro2 with Wolftone PUs and OiP caps, just needed to use the volume and +10dB boost of the guitar and was there too (with the LPs more warmth). Switch in full up position. Diddle with the tone knobs as needed for fine tuning. Volumes as close to 11 as I can get if anyone else is in the house.

I won't insult anyone by uploading a sound file. It me and not the equipment at this point.


----------



## ken361

Pushing the clean channel with the dynacomp is pretty awesome! Its loud and crunchy and clear!Stratocaster fat 50's bridge 6th string single notes get bassy some though


----------



## solarburn

Crank the gain on the green clean channel and then put your OD pedals in front to boost. Experiment with them. There is another world of classic tones to be had.

High gain players ignore this.LOL


----------



## ken361

What are you guys setting the bias at right at 70% dissipation or cooler some? For right now 475 plate voltage my bias is now 36.2, 36.8 is 70% I was running it 34.. most of the year though.


----------



## Screamin Willie

I'm running at 70% with plate voltage at 475vdc.

Willie


----------



## Bownse

My plate voltage was 475 and my numbers are in the table in post #6300.


----------



## BanditPanda

ken361 said:


> What are you guys setting the bias at right at 70% dissipation or cooler some? For right now 475 plate voltage my bias is now 36.2, 36.8 is 70% I was running it 34.. most of the year though.


\
Ken..Did your come off the shop floor at 34 ? Mine did and my tech said if that's the way the factory set it that's the way it's supposed to be. I know most like to run hotter than that but I'm happy with what I'm getting.
I prolly wouldn't be able to tell the diff between running at 34 & 36 anyway


----------



## ken361

BanditPanda said:


> \
> Ken..Did your come off the shop floor at 34 ? Mine did and my tech said if that's the way the factory set it that's the way it's supposed to be. I know most like to run hotter than that but I'm happy with what I'm getting.
> I prolly wouldn't be able to tell the diff between running at 34 & 36 anyway


I didnt measure it, just bought a set of tubes to diagnose a hum and it was a bad tube causing it! ended up biasing it later that week. Now I have my own meter and doing it myself now monday I set it 36.2 with new tubes and rechecked it sunday and one drifted to 36.8 so I brought that back down. Depends what your plate voltage so 36 might be right at house and 34 be right for here. Not much though you dont have to be at 70% can go cooler though.


----------



## solarburn

Mine came biased at 36mv out of the box. Which is where I like it. I'll run it anywhere from 33mv to 36mv. Depends on tubes and feel I prefer.

I like running my DSL's at 65% to 70% dissipation. My PV was around 450. I think?LOL It's been awhile since I checked and I'm old and forgetful.


----------



## BanditPanda

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Mine came biased at 36mv out of the box. Which is where I like it. I'll run it anywhere from 33mv to 36mv. Depends on tubes and feel I prefer.
> 
> I like running my DSL's at 65% to 70% dissipation. My PV was around 450. I think?LOL It's been awhile since I checked and I'm old and forgetful.



One hopes so old as to not enjoy a bit o' panty dropping every now and then? lmao


----------



## ken361

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Mine came biased at 36mv out of the box. Which is where I like it. I'll run it anywhere from 33mv to 36mv. Depends on tubes and feel I prefer.
> 
> I like running my DSL's at 65% to 70% dissipation. My PV was around 450. I think?LOL It's been awhile since I checked and I'm old and forgetful.


prb a good idea to recheck it in a few months since there new tubes


----------



## solarburn

BanditPanda said:


> One hopes so old as to not enjoy a bit o' panty dropping every now and then? lmao


----------



## solarburn

ken361 said:


> prb a good idea to recheck it in a few months since there new tubes



Man I was checking mine at least once a week. Tried other power tubes. Bias was pretty solid throughout. I just brought it out again to play and it's sounding great...although I have a noisy preamp tube. Will fix that when it bothers me a bit more. Just a bit of static right now.LOL


----------



## ken361

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Man I was checking mine at least once a week. Tried other power tubes. Bias was pretty solid throughout. I just brought it out again to play and it's sounding great...although I have a noisy preamp tube. Will fix that when it bothers me a bit more. Just a bit of static right now.LOL


Contact cleaner works for me well


----------



## kev67

Dsl40c newbie here  Im currently wading through this thread (page 92 i think)
The Dsl is my first marshall tube amp (apart from SS) Peavey VK100 and Orange Rockerverb 100 were my previous tube amps.

Its about 10 months old and paid £280 
Noticed that fizzy crap in the ultra channels and got pointed to this thread.
So far ive just been trying different settings but checked the bias (39/43) so just set it to 38 for now while im learning the amp.
Not that keen on the stock speaker so will be replacing that i reckon.
Oh and i got advised off a mate to do the c19 mod....
I played mine side by side with his and noticed the difference straight away so did the clipped the c19... what can i say.. loads better to me...

Back to the speakers.. any recommendations for one that will be ok for multi genre playing?

cheers for the thread guys


----------



## ken361

kev67 said:


> Dsl40c newbie here  Im currently wading through this thread (page 92 i think)
> The Dsl is my first marshall tube amp (apart from SS) Peavey VK100 and Orange Rockerverb 100 were my previous tube amps.
> 
> Its about 10 months old and paid £280
> Noticed that fizzy crap in the ultra channels and got pointed to this thread.
> So far ive just been trying different settings but checked the bias (39/43) so just set it to 38 for now while im learning the amp.
> Not that keen on the stock speaker so will be replacing that i reckon.
> Oh and i got advised off a mate to do the c19 mod....
> I played mine side by side with his and noticed the difference straight away so did the clipped the c19... what can i say.. loads better to me...
> 
> Back to the speakers.. any recommendations for one that will be ok for multi genre playing?
> 
> cheers for the thread guys


Most like the creamback speaker, did you play loud against your mates amp when you compared the amps?


----------



## solarburn

ken361 said:


> Contact cleaner works for me well



You bet it does. Good point Ken!


----------



## kev67

ken361 said:


> Most like the creamback speaker, did you play loud against your mates amp when you compared the amps?


Did my usual 9 oclock home jamming and went upto about 12...

Sounded well nice cranking it up (was on the 20w triode) forgot to try it on 40 
As i will be using it at home too, thought the c19 mod would be beneficial to me?

First time that ive had a valve combo, always had 2 or 4x12's so on the learning curve 

I wasn't going to bother with the stock speaker that much and just use it through a cab... having less weight to carry about makes my bad back happy so will be looking more into the sounds coming from the combo


----------



## ken361

I have not cut the c19, does it make a difference loud? some say the cap makes the difference only at lower playing


----------



## kev67

ken361 said:


> I have not cut the c19, does it make a difference loud? some say the cap makes the difference only at lower playing


To me, pre cut, my mates (nearly 2 year old) dsl 40 (c19 clipped) sounded better and less harsh on all of the channels.
I was using an Ibanez szr and he was using rg421 (both got standard pups) we swapped guitars for a while too.

Ive had the amp under a week, mainly playing at home so can only limit the volume 

I started reading this a few days ago, think im upto page 98, but was going to play it for a few months to bed everything in a bit... also wondered if it was just the older dsl's that were fizzy.

(edit below is about ultra channel sound)
I clipped the c19 (so i could re solder if needed) and set bias and built her back up.
To me the sound is more creamy and fuller that pre cut and less trebley harshness though i did have to adjust the eq back a bit as it gave more bottom end (if thats the best way to explain it? Maybe the bottom end was always there but the highs made it less noticeable?

At home practice is awesome now but im only on the 20w mode and i use all the channels for playing indie through to hard rock.
I need more time to narrow it down to two channels as currently its looking like the only option for band... (im not going down the pedal route again )


----------



## Bownse

I does "darken" the tone. But that may be done in an easier-to-reverse way by trying a different speaker.


----------



## BanditPanda

quote / I have not cut the c19, does it make a difference loud? some say the cap makes the difference only at lower playing /quote
You should know that c19 affects only the Ultra Gain Channel and not the Classic Gain Channel


----------



## ken361

I know


----------



## BanditPanda

ken361 said:


> I know


ok. Apparently Kev67 didn't.


----------



## kev67

BanditPanda said:


> ok. Apparently Kev67 didn't.



From what i read, i knew it altered the ultra channel and brought the classic and ultra closer together.
I like the overall sound from both channels with c19 clipped and assumed the harshness through both channels was down to speaker and/or the c19?


Edit
Ah just re read my post at top of page... I was on about the ultra channel there


----------



## BanditPanda

kev67 said:


> From what i read, i knew it altered the ultra channel and brought the classic and ultra closer together.
> I like the overall sound from both channels with c19 clipped and assumed the harshness through both channels was down to speaker and/or the c19?
> 
> 
> Edit
> Ah just re read my post at top of page... I was on about the ultra channel there



Right on.The correct speaker will do both channels justice while the C19 clip does only the red (ultra ) channel justice.


----------



## ken361

some say once its turned up it doesnt really matter, bright cap is only effected at lower volumes?


----------



## BanditPanda

ken361 said:


> some say once its turned up it doesnt really matter, bright cap is only effected at lower volumes?



I don't understand. Would you explain further ? Do you mean an unclipped C19 doesn't come into play at volume?


----------



## ken361

clipped at low volumes its warmer sounding but when playing loud it sounds the same as unclipped from what I understand.


----------



## BanditPanda

ken361 said:


> clipped at low volumes its warmer sounding but when playing loud it sounds the same as unclipped from what I understand.


I'll see what I can find on the C19, what it is there for etc., etc.,. Most forum members do not clip the C19 or do but then replace the stock capacitor(?) with higher number ( pf or whatever the term is ) than what comes stock


----------



## BanditPanda

Found this which supports what you said Ken:
A capacitor wired between the input and output of a Volume or Gain pot is a bright cap. It allows treble to bypass the pot, whereas lower freqs have to go through the pot.

Manufacturers started adding them to help a guitarist 'cut though' when playing live at any setting other than maximum (of the pot in question). It is effective at that.

At maximum setting of the pot, it makes no difference.

Clipping it out (on many old Fenders, there's a switch to do it) will have the apparent effect of reducing treble. That's why the videos are quite convincing.

Just be aware that this mod might sound great when playing on your own. You don't have to compete for spectrum with other instruments. But it might reduce the ability of your guitar tone to cut through when playing in a band


----------



## ken361

I had a fender 68 custom twin and it said once the volume is up the cap is out of the circuit, also had a on and off switch. I think having the bright cap on the amp on or off it kinda made od pedals kinda bright! I didnt like it and traded it in a year later for the dsl when i played the deluxe reverb 6v6 amp with no cap whats so ever it took pedals quit better! almost got that one instead. i tested it at the store kind of loud but not real loud though.


----------



## ken361

I always find a sweet spot on a amp its either really low,just below 1 on our amps but loud enough to play at home and record or not bother other people. loud at 4 on the red and 7 or so on the crunch I had 50 and 100 watters and was able to play at low volumes with a master volume and play loud also. 40 watt mode I use all the time BTW.


----------



## solarburn

The real test is if the C19 sounds good live. While gigging live most places mic so you may not get up to volume anyways? Most of the playing may be where the bright cap is not nullified. So a mod like this can pay off.

Myself? Haven't done it. Like what I get out of my Buckers and SC's...


----------



## kev67

Ive also been reading that a lot of guys changed the cap to a different value....
Was thinking of trying that but quite like the clipped sound the amp's ultra channel does now at low vol.

Probably look at valve swaps at a later date, sorry tubes for our brethren over the pond 

Watford Valves in the uk did an in depth test on nos and current production tubes which is a good read imo..
I put a link up in Marty's thread on tubes


----------



## kev67

On a side note, ive just had a couple of hours messing about on 20w mode.
Wow is this amp versitile...
I got good blink 182, foo fighters, iggy pop, the strokes, metallica and old school tunes rocking out..

I had a good hour messing with the same 3 chords advance the eq 1 at a time ie treb 1>2>3 etc.
12 oclock starting point is great and ive found that its a bit like tuning a radio meh meh static static then boom there she is... I

Ive found tones i like in ultra 1 and 2 tone switch in and out (what ive been on the most) and some nice chilli peppers and indie stuff in the crunch on the classic.
I could easily gig on the crunch and ultra with no pedals.. fecking super impressed.

Lovely swap between the classic and ultra too (glad i did the c19 clip)

Would putting a different capacitor make a noticeable difference than just having the c19 clipped?

Had ten minutes on 40w ... holy crap batman... i can see a trip to my mates rehearsal rooms is in order to let her rip


----------



## BanditPanda

kev67 said:


> On a side note, ive just had a couple of hours messing about on 20w mode.
> Wow is this amp versitile...
> I got good blink 182, foo fighters, iggy pop, the strokes, metallica and old school tunes rocking out..
> 
> I had a good hour messing with the same 3 chords advance the eq 1 at a time ie treb 1>2>3 etc.
> 12 oclock starting point is great and ive found that its a bit like tuning a radio meh meh static static then boom there she is... I
> 
> Ive found tones i like in ultra 1 and 2 tone switch in and out (what ive been on the most) and some nice chilli peppers and indie stuff in the crunch on the classic.
> I could easily gig on the crunch and ultra with no pedals.. fecking super impressed.
> 
> Lovely swap between the classic and ultra too (glad i did the c19 clip)
> 
> Would putting a different capacitor make a noticeable difference than just having the c19 clipped?
> 
> Had ten minutes on 40w ... holy crap batman... i can see a trip to my mates rehearsal rooms is in order to let her rip



Way to go Kev.
I practice in 20W mode and get wicked tone. With the right set up and tweaks the DSL40C is probably better than what we giv'er credit for.


----------



## kev67

Ive always been a 'max the knobs on the guitar' kinda guy and use the eq on the amp...
Been rollin the tone and vols to see what happens... its awesome


----------



## ken361

kev67 said:


> Ive always been a 'max the knobs on the guitar' kinda guy and use the eq on the amp...
> Been rollin the tone and vols to see what happens... its awesome


what guitars you using?


----------



## BanditPanda

kev67 said:


> Ive always been a 'max the knobs on the guitar' kinda guy and use the eq on the amp...
> Been rollin the tone and vols to see what happens... its awesome



I'm a max knobs guy too and gonna stay that way. The reasoning just makes sense to me.


----------



## kev67

ken361 said:


> what guitars you using?


Only got my old Ibanez SZR 520 currently, just come back to electric guitars after a few years break playing in an acoustic cover duo and playing drums for a few years.
Id decided to have a break from guitar as id been playing in bands since early 2000's.
Last set up was Jim Root tele sig, rockerverb 100 and various pedals...

As much as i loved the Orange i think i'll like the Dsl more :O


----------



## Bownse

kev67 said:


> As much as i loved the Orange i think i'll like the Dsl more :O



Good to know. The shop where I take lessons is an Orange dealer. In class I use one of the small Orange amps (not much bigger than my Pignose). That whole "grass is always greener" syndrome had me eyeing something from their lineup but not so much as to actually spend money.

I always love my 40c while playing it. That danged ole wandering eye.


----------



## kev67

Bownse said:


> Good to know. The shop where I take lessons is an Orange dealer. In class I use one of the small Orange amps (not much bigger than my Pignose). That whole "grass is always greener" syndrome had me eyeing something from their lineup but not so much as to actually spend money.
> 
> I always love my 40c while playing it. That danged ole wandering eye.



I used to take my orange micro terror to band practice every now and then.. run some pedals through it into a 4x12.. sounded pretty cool for a 20w ss


----------



## kev67

The micro on the rockerverb


----------



## ken361

kev67 said:


> Only got my old Ibanez SZR 520 currently, just come back to electric guitars after a few years break playing in an acoustic cover duo and playing drums for a few years.
> Id decided to have a break from guitar as id been playing in bands since early 2000's.
> Last set up was Jim Root tele sig, rockerverb 100 and various pedals...
> 
> As much as i loved the Orange i think i'll like the Dsl more :O


Root tele is cool!


----------



## ken361

kev67 said:


> The micro on the rockerverb


those are bad ass played one with a 412 was like damm


----------



## kev67

ken361 said:


> Root tele is cool!


by far my fav guitar.. on the look out for another one


----------



## Benjamin Spicer

Hello everyone,
I bought a dsl40c a couple of months ago (1st valve amp) and found this thread searching for info on the amp.
I've been reading from the start for a few weeks now and lovin it (up to page 127) and it's prompted me to join. Seriously appreciate all the work you guys put into your amps and the info on here.


----------



## G the wildman

I have not been on the forum for some time. Why - because my amp is now about 1 year old and has settled beautifully. I have a Creamback speaker and Tad power tubes.

Before you make too many mods consider the following.

The size of the room you play at home makes a vast difference to sound.

Use of an amp stand v direct on floor makes a big difference.

Placing amp in a corner has a big effect.

I now practice in a room bigger than the one shown and the amp sounds so much better. However I am not constrained by apartment levels.

The amp works well with pedals.

Good luck all

G


----------



## BanditPanda

Benjamin Spicer said:


> Hello everyone,
> I bought a dsl40c a couple of months ago (1st valve amp) and found this thread searching for info on the amp.
> I've been reading from the start for a few weeks now and lovin it (up to page 127) and it's prompted me to join. Seriously appreciate all the work you guys put into your amps and the info on here.



Welcome Benjamin.
There is a thread in the Community Section of the forum and if you wish to you can Introduce Yourself there.
You've got one helluva good Marshall amp on your hands there. Enjoy.
BP


----------



## ronj150

flashtilley said:


> Has anyone experimented with different preamp tubes in these?


I use EXH V1 12at7 and Mesa in remainder of slots.


----------



## ronj150

I recently purchased the amp and planned my changes in advance - this forum helped with my research. V30 Speaker, C19 clip, 12at7 in V1 and and Dr Z power soak. Amp is amazing, lots of bottom and mids, very warm and punchy I also have a JVM 210H, EVH 5153 etc. but wanted something lighter and more compact but still had a full sound to it. Thanks for sharing your experience.


----------



## ken361

Made a quick clip boosting my strat bedroom levels mic'd im no pro though. i havent tested this newer setting loud until later today on the pedal.


----------



## ken361

Pedal sounds huge loud dam!


----------



## Mpesta

I bought a DSL40c a week ago and a experiencing the pops, noise and dropping volume issue. This seems to be a common problem with this amp. Is there a clean thread with the resolutions?


----------



## Micky

Mpesta said:


> I bought a DSL40c a week ago and a experiencing the pops, noise and dropping volume issue. This seems to be a common problem with this amp. Is there a clean thread with the resolutions?


No, it is not a common issue.
If it is under warranty, take it back.
If not, replace the power tubes and bias it up.


----------



## Len

Mpesta said:


> I bought a DSL40c a week ago and a experiencing the pops, noise and dropping volume issue. This seems to be a common problem with this amp. Is there a clean thread with the resolutions?


Like the other reply says, it's not a common problem. It's bad tubes. Replace them.


----------



## Benjamin Spicer

So today I was playing in my boss's shed at work pretty loud and then the volume suddenly dropped right down (could still hear it but crank it to 10 and not blow my ear drums out)

Anyway I thought damn must be a tube so I pulled out and changed positions of all the preamp tubes and had no difference at all so I thought it must be a power tube and ordered some....

Then I pressed the effects loop button and full volume returned, damn it! I should probably have spares anyway hehe.

Do you guys in your collective experience know of any problems and potential fixes for the fx loop? I have read to page 180 on here now but can't recall seeing any.

I don't use the fx loop much but would like it to be working, also I bought it second hand so no warranty.


----------



## Bownse

Use it all the time; no problems. Sounds like maybe one of the pedals crapped out on you. Are you running a/c adapters or batteries? Check out your power sources too see if that's the problem.


----------



## ken361

Smart move about moving the preamp tubes, I had a one go bad as a result of a volume drop. Never read anything on a bad loop on these.


----------



## Len

Benjamin Spicer said:


> So today I was playing in my boss's shed at work pretty loud and then the volume suddenly dropped right down (could still hear it but crank it to 10 and not blow my ear drums out)
> 
> Anyway I thought damn must be a tube so I pulled out and changed positions of all the preamp tubes and had no difference at all so I thought it must be a power tube and ordered some....
> 
> Then I pressed the effects loop button and full volume returned, damn it! I should probably have spares anyway hehe.
> 
> Do you guys in your collective experience know of any problems and potential fixes for the fx loop? I have read to page 180 on here now but can't recall seeing any.
> 
> I don't use the fx loop much but would like it to be working, also I bought it second hand so no warranty.


Maybe just put a patch cable in the loop so it's always enabled, but no effects in it.


----------



## Benjamin Spicer

Bownse said:


> Use it all the time; no problems. Sounds like maybe one of the pedals crapped out on you. Are you running a/c adapters or batteries? Check out your power sources too see if that's the problem.



I use a power supply, I don't think it is the pedals though as when I have nothing in the loop as soon as I press the button in again it drops the volume. 

I tried with pedals in and out of the loop, will try with a patch cable as Len suggested though...

Thanks guys


----------



## ken361

Any one using Tungsols EL 34's? They seem to add more low end,not in a bad way I'm liking them


----------



## ken361

Gator Grip picks 2 mm might be a favorite,was never a thick pick guy.If your tones are bright try different picks!


----------



## Micky

ken361 said:


> Any one using Tungsols EL 34's? They seem to add more low end,not in a bad way I'm liking them


I had some and they seemed dull or muffled maybe. Definitely not bright and full like a TAD.
I will bet the Tungsols tame the shrill Seventy/80 though.


----------



## solarburn

I appreciate this guys demos. I can run circles around this guy as far as showing my morning wood. Nah what ta Mean? I KEED!

Check it out and tell me which amp you like best? I dig the DSL40 of course.LOL The Fender with the right pedal is good.



The Marshall showed better tone across the board. To my ears. Plus I can demonstrate it although I don't own a Fender. Prefer Marshall cleans and the OD side is a no brainier for me. Soooo...piss off Hot Rod D!LOL


----------



## solarburn

However I do like the Super Sonic Fender but only because it hits closer to a Marshall.LOL


----------



## Len

solarburnDSL50 said:


> However I do like the Super Sonic Fender but only because it hits closer to a Marshall.LOL


Wow, I had the opposite experience when I owned a SS. It sounded horrible compared to any Marshall I'd ever played. Bad peaky midrange, and really ice picky tone no matter what speaker I played it through.


----------



## Bownse

ken361 said:


> Any one using Tungsols EL 34's? They seem to add more low end,not in a bad way I'm liking them



Check post #6300


----------



## ken361

Bownse said:


> Check post #6300


Can you post a link please?


----------



## Bownse

ken361 said:


> Can you post a link please?



Nope. You can step back through the pages (this post is #6371 as an offset) like I did in about the same time it'd take me to do it for you.

It really is easy to learn to fish and eat for a lifetime.


----------



## ken361

Oh I see the numbers now there small on a 8in note pad,thanks!


----------



## solarburn

Len said:


> Wow, I had the opposite experience when I owned a SS. It sounded horrible compared to any Marshall I'd ever played. Bad peaky midrange, and really ice picky tone no matter what speaker I played it through.



Yeah that sounds horrible.


----------



## Len

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Yeah that sounds horrible.


Play nice. No need for that just because I have a different opinion and experience than you.


----------



## solarburn

Len said:


> Play nice. No need for that just because I have a different opinion and experience than you.



I was agreeing with you. Your experience sounded bad. I hate brittle and piercing tone.

Anyways Len. Meant no sarcasm or smartassyness.


----------



## Len

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I was agreeing with you. Your experience sounded bad. I hate brittle and piercing tone.
> 
> Anyways Len. Meant no sarcasm or smartassyness.


Sorry, looks like I misinterpreted your post.


----------



## WasStoNed

For sharing sake, I was getting a lot of hissing/noise when using my DSL40 on the weekend, only thing that had changed was a laptop plugged into the gang connector, unplug laptop, noise gone. I might look at isolating the amp to a single wall socket.


----------



## Bownse

Some sort of high-end isolator between the outlet and the amp's plug might be worth researching given how noise flows throughout a house and the various circuits.


----------



## rlowe

Just ordered a matched pair of TAD EL34b str power tubes from The Tube amp Doctor. I have heard nothing but good reviews on these tubes, and that they are.. very similar to the old Mullards Marshall used to use in their amps. I currently use JJ E34L (E34L's I say) power tubes, and these do give some what of a good thump to the amp. Will have to see what these new tubes con due! Congrats! to the Chicago cubs on their WS win


----------



## rlowe

Installed and biased the TAD EL34b str power tubes yesterday. Bias set at 42.5 as I was trying to get rid of a thin, or pingy sound on leads, especially when using the EH deluxe electric mistress. Coupled with the Keeley compressor it seems to have worked; although I might lose more headroom at higher volumes. I also biased my dsl5c at 140.0 with a JJ ECC99 gold pin. The dsl5c bias originally, out of box was set to aprx, 29.0, sounding tin like, and not quite liking it. After the new bias it sounds more like my dsl40c. TAD EL34b's are good tubes, but I won't write off my JJ E34L's, as these tubes still provide a good thump to the amp.


----------



## aryasridhar

Interesting pictures, Thank You, seems like they use the same chassis for the 40c and the 100H, the extra tube sockets are left open, could easily be converted into a head, same orientation as the head but with a different faceplate.

I'm getting the DSL100H, it should be here by Thursday I believe!!

Too excited!!


----------



## Micky

rlowe said:


> Installed and biased the TAD EL34b str power tubes yesterday. Bias set at 42.5 as I was trying to get rid of a thin, or pingy sound on leads, especially when using the EH deluxe electric mistress. Coupled with the Keeley compressor it seems to have worked; although I might lose more headroom at higher volumes. I also biased my dsl5c at 140.0 with a JJ ECC99 gold pin. The dsl5c bias originally, out of box was set to aprx, 29.0, sounding tin like, and not quite liking it. After the new bias it sounds more like my dsl40c. TAD EL34b's are good tubes, but I won't write off my JJ E34L's, as these tubes still provide a good thump to the amp.


42 seems awfully high...
140 for a 5c also seems awfully high...


----------



## ken361

Boosting the crunch is a religious experience loud and proud!


----------



## rlowe

Micky said:


> 42 seems awfully high...
> 140 for a 5c also seems awfully high...


Eurotubes recommends 40-45, although at this setting headroom and tube life is reduced. Testing and possibly, will lower bias on dsl40c to 39 or 40 range; Dsl 5c will be tested as well.


----------



## ken361

rlowe said:


> Eurotubes recommends 40-45, although at this setting headroom and tube life is reduced. Testing and possibly, will lower bias on dsl40c to 39 or 40 range; Dsl 5c will be tested as well.


whats your plate voltage at is the big question on the 40?


----------



## rlowe

Well, Ken TAD and JJ's measure differently at plate voltage maybe 3 points is what I got. If you use the formula, or calculation intended for power tube biasing, I would have come to 38.6 at both tubes. I biased to 42.5 testing to try and get rid of a thin, pinging sound on upper lead runs. The setting worked, but will lower the bias to a lower setting for more headroom, and will do the same for my dsl5c.


----------



## ken361

I didnt know that different tubes change the voltage hmm. Buddy told me that the wall voltage usually is the same at same house. Solar burn says his usually the same when he tested his


----------



## ken361

My gf condo measured at 475 and set it 34 the first time then went to 36 it seemed more brighter though and now back to 34. Did you use probes to check the plate or tube socket thingy?


----------



## rlowe

ken361 said:


> I didnt know that different tubes change the voltage hmm. Buddy told me that the wall voltage usually is the same at same house. Solar burn says his usually the same when he tested his


Well, as I said there was a 3 point difference when measuring the two sets of different tubes, minor difference there.


----------



## rlowe

Yes, I use basic testing probes for both plate voltage, and current biasing.


----------



## Bownse

rlowe said:


> Eurotubes recommends 40-45, although at this setting headroom and tube life is reduced. Testing and possibly, will lower bias on dsl40c to 39 or 40 range; Dsl 5c will be tested as well.



At 475 plate voltage, my last bias was to 36. I know it's a lot cooler than some prefer but I can still hit the crunch and have sustain headroom too. My tubes are now lasting a lot longer too.

Keep in mind I swapped out the 70/80 so that addressed the brightness of the OEM sound.


----------



## ken361

36.8 is at 70% you dont really want higher then that IMO. Mines 475 was at 36 was a little brighter then 34 I tested my tube bias 37.5 and the other was 35.5 when I set them at 36 after 2 weeks of use on new tubes ;( then last Sunday I reset them to 34 over a month in use. I know tubes can drift though. After 70% I believe you can get cross over distortion, more higher bias gets a clearer tone but brighter I think but I use the red alot and dont want any more brightness.


----------



## pluck

Have had the DSL 40c for about two months now...still tweaking things ...I am running my 31 band Peavey rack EQ into the FX loop along with a Nemesis delay pedal and I'm not hearing that ultra high fidelity of the repeats that sounds so cool with a good delay unit...at this point, I'm wondering if its just the design of the Nemesis, but I have stayed strictly on the digital delay setting with clear repeats and all modulation off to ensure getting the cleanest repeats possible for this testing...I have pulled the EQ out thinking it was effecting things even though I had the bypassed button engaged, but no difference...there just is not that beautiful clarity you can get with a good delay..it sounds kinda too 'lo-fi' or smeared sounding. The repeats don't have those super distinguishable repeats and it gets really noticeable the more you turn up and it kinda turns into a mess. I have noticed it on both green and clean and semi dirty channel and red channel but it's really disappointing on the red channel, when I want a nice chunky lead sound but with some ultra clear delay repeats. So now I'm left wondering if it's just the delay pedal or perhaps the fidelity of the FX loop is not that good or something else?


----------



## rlowe

Bownse said:


> At 475 plate voltage, my last bias was to 36. I know it's a lot cooler than some prefer but I can still hit the crunch and have sustain headroom too. My tubes are now lasting a lot longer too.
> 
> Keep in mind I swapped out the 70/80 so that addressed the brightness of the OEM sound.





Bownse said:


> At 475 plate voltage, my last bias was to 36. I know it's a lot cooler than some prefer but I can still hit the crunch and have sustain headroom too. My tubes are now lasting a lot longer too.
> 
> Keep in mind I swapped out the 70/80 so that addressed the brightness of the OEM sound.


I just lowered my bias a bit and it does sound cleaner on both amps. Vintage 30 in 40c and 70/80 in small ext. cab adds a nice mix; actually sounds good. 70/80 came with new Marshall cab.( Strange it does not sound too piercing).


----------



## Micky

Before I converted my DSL40c I ran my bias at 35 with a B+ of 475. I never saw too much variance with different wall voltages, but it sounded great.
It seemed like anything over that generated a bit of a hiss on the Ultra channel and made things a little too fizzy.

To each their own.


----------



## ken361

pluck said:


> Have had the DSL 40c for about two months now...still tweaking things ...I am running my 31 band Peavey rack EQ into the FX loop along with a Nemesis delay pedal and I'm not hearing that ultra high fidelity of the repeats that sounds so cool with a good delay unit...at this point, I'm wondering if its just the design of the Nemesis, but I have stayed strictly on the digital delay setting with clear repeats and all modulation off to ensure getting the cleanest repeats possible for this testing...I have pulled the EQ out thinking it was effecting things even though I had the bypassed button engaged, but no difference...there just is not that beautiful clarity you can get with a good delay..it sounds kinda too 'lo-fi' or smeared sounding. The repeats don't have those super distinguishable repeats and it gets really noticeable the more you turn up and it kinda turns into a mess. I have noticed it on both green and clean and semi dirty channel and red channel but it's really disappointing on the red channel, when I want a nice chunky lead sound but with some ultra clear delay repeats. So now I'm left wondering if it's just the delay pedal or perhaps the fidelity of the FX loop is not that good or something else?


I run a cheap Caline delay and it works very good in the loop


----------



## Benjamin Spicer

ken361 said:


> Boosting the crunch is a religious experience loud and proud!



I hear ya ken! I have a clean boost in the front of mine (Ep booster) kicking it on is the best feeling.

In other news I changed my speaker to the 65 creamback, WOW every channel sounds nicer and fuller and I can turn it up louder without having to stand in the next room because of the treble in my ears/brain.


----------



## MarshallDog

Benjamin Spicer said:


> I hear ya ken! I have a clean boost in the front of mine (Ep booster) kicking it on is the best feeling.
> 
> In other news I changed my speaker to the 65 creamback, WOW every channel sounds nicer and fuller and I can turn it up louder without having to stand in the next room because of the treble in my ears/brain.



Thats right! That Celestion G12M-65 Creamback is the cats a-s in this amp!! I have them in all my combos!


----------



## Jethro Rocker

I use a Zoom G3 in loop, works great.


----------



## rlowe

ken361 said:


> Boosting the crunch is a religious experience loud and proud!


Religious indeed, about a year, or so ago I (and others), posted using the clean channel, or crunch with a pedal. This channel provides a cleaner harmonic tone, yet with plenty of gain as dialed in with a pedal. The red channel is good, but lacks the cleaner harmonic disposition. Yes I agree, you will find me mostly on the green channel with some sort of pedal, that can dial in the needed gain.


----------



## LMDAVE

<deleted>


----------



## ken361

Why is my bias drifting?? ok after 2 weeks on new tubes Tungsols set 36.2 36.8 is 70% then 2 weeks I recheck it at 35.5 and 37.5 on the second tube so I set it cooler to 34.2 a few weeks ago and today I get 32.4 or so! I set it up to 35.7. I noticed the green crunch and cleans were sorta dull I usually use the red more anyways that's why I bumped it up. I bought a couple of sets from a local dealer, I know Tungsols were burned it at the factory, some online dealers burn them again I guess for better matching. Any thoughts?


----------



## ken361

I tested my meter on a new battery and it almost on the money with the reading so I hope its pretty accurate. My bud checked the PV at 475 on his meter months ago so the meter should be good. Wondering does it matter if you zero out the pot first then set the bias on each tube?


----------



## Bownse

There was a run of Marshall amps with a bias drift problem. I don't know their mfgr dates but I think the DSL40C was part of that. Someone else might be able to tell you. Is it new enough for warranty work?


----------



## ken361

I think it might be just the UK amps


----------



## ken361

I talked to Eurotubes, Mike said its pretty common you know the wall voltages changes some and the bias will fluctuate some. He said not worry, the tone didnt really change much anyways. Says I could set then jam out loud for while then dial it back in again and but you know thats kind of a pain when you dont have a extra cabinet I would leave the chassic out


----------



## Micky

ken361 said:


> Why is my bias drifting?? ok after 2 weeks on new tubes Tungsols set 36.2 36.8 is 70% then 2 weeks I recheck it at 35.5 and 37.5 on the second tube so I set it cooler to 34.2 a few weeks ago and today I get 32.4 or so! I set it up to 35.7. I noticed the green crunch and cleans were sorta dull I usually use the red more anyways that's why I bumped it up. I bought a couple of sets from a local dealer, I know Tungsols were burned it at the factory, some online dealers burn them again I guess for better matching. Any thoughts?


2%-5% drift is common with many CP tubes. Especially new ones.
Not to worry... Just check it when you can, don't obsess over it.


----------



## Micky

Bownse said:


> There was a run of Marshall amps with a bias drift problem. I don't know their mfgr dates but I think the DSL40C was part of that. Someone else might be able to tell you. Is it new enough for warranty work?


No, the older JCM2000 series was affected, the TSL & DSL series only. And then, only a few with a specific board revision.


----------



## ken361

Thanks, well I know now


----------



## rlowe

Well, I was trying to add a little punch to my rig; especially leads so I purchased a MXR fullbore metal. I have high output overdrives stacked, that sound really nice cranked, but when I plugged this pedal in, it just about literally blew me out of my room. Nice and thick! I still love my Classic rock, as I will always play, but to add a little, (little?) something xtra, this pedal is KILLER.


----------



## ken361

check the new friedman pedal out!


----------



## rlowe

ken361 said:


> I talked to Eurotubes, Mike said its pretty common you know the wall voltages changes some and the bias will fluctuate some. He said not worry, the tone didnt really change much anyways. Says I could set then jam out loud for while then dial it back in again and but you know thats kind of a pain when you dont have a extra cabinet I would leave the chassic out


The bias can fluctuate, after one or two days I checked it, and it had lowered by about 2 points even when using a method Eurotubes had outlined.


----------



## ken361

I checked it 3 different times


----------



## Len

rlowe said:


> Well, I was trying to add a little punch to my rig; especially leads so I purchased a MXR fullbore metal. I have high output overdrives stacked, that sound really nice cranked, but when I plugged this pedal in, it just about literally blew me out of my room. Nice and thick! I still love my Classic rock, as I will always play, but to add a little, (little?) something xtra, this pedal is KILLER.



I use one with the red channel gain at noon to get into metal territory. I keep the MXR gain low and mainly use its EQ. The MXR pedal has a powerful EQ for some interesting tone shaping options.


----------



## solarburn

ken361 said:


> I checked it 3 different times



Ken if it stays within 8mv of each other I'd continue to use them. If you get some hum or see red plating then no.

Otherwise a bit of drift is fine. Just bias where you get the best sound/feel within the the targeted plate dissipation you are wanting.

If they don't sound or feel right then I'd suspect a bit of a dud...one or both. You know tubes...even new ones can be less than they should be.


----------



## ken361

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Ken if it stays within 8mv of each other I'd continue to use them. If you get some hum or see red plating then no.
> 
> Otherwise a bit of drift is fine. Just bias where you get the best sound/feel within the the targeted plate dissipation you are wanting.
> 
> If they don't sound or feel right then I'd suspect a bit of a dud...one or both. You know tubes...even new ones can be less than they should be.


Yeah thanks! they threw me a loop when I seen them drop or one increased in mv


----------



## Bownse

It's the whole "analog" v digital amp thing. Analog things aren't as exacting. I learned it with cigar humidors and plants and it carries over into amps. They can drift and you can kill them by over-managing them. An occasional checkup is fine and some expected drift is normal to their nature.


----------



## Benjamin Spicer

Finished reading this thread today. Phew (wipes face) that's a lot of info... cheers for your dedication everyone


----------



## Micky

Benjamin Spicer said:


> Finished reading this thread today. Phew (wipes face) that's a lot of info... cheers for your dedication everyone


It's big, it's unwieldy, but it's worth it.

For the mods alone, this thread is priceless.
Unfortunately there is a large population here that hasn't browsed it yet.
Over and over I read the same questions many of us had when we first got ours, and it is sometimes very painful to regurgitate the answers over and over.
I tried a couple times to create an index, but the site was in flux and things changed and the references to each indexed post changed.
Frustrating to say the least, because there have been so many great contributors and sooooo much great info posted here.

I still get a few emails a week asking specific questions, and that in and of itself is very rewarding to be able to help someone.
I am glad you have taken the time to go thru this. I can only hope others do as well.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

You can gather the pitchforks up after!!
I finally sold my 40C... Yes,I liked it. Yes it sounded great!! Just found I wasn't using It nearly enough playing out. Sorry!!

Background - I got it to get something more compact and lighter than the TSL122 that was still a Marshall. A few months later, a 6101 showed up!! Now, the 40C is only about 4" smaller footprint and with the V30is about 15 lbs less than 122. 
The 6101, however heavy and dense, is substantially smaller than either amp. I always used an OD pedal with the 40C. While I do have my OD on my big board, a bit inconvenient for practice and smaller shows. So given the 3 channels of excellent tones on TSL and 6101 and extra funding for my JVM 410C, i decided to let it go. Space considerations as well. If I like it but dont play it much and have to use a pedal, itjust didn't seem worth keeping for me.

A nice older dude who plays classic rock mainly bought it. An amp for life, he called it. So I'm happy for him. The way it goes....
I'm also happy with the collection I have, and am going to do the -fd back mod on the 410 soon.


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

Why Jethro, why? My heart hurts right now. I have to go compose myself......


----------



## Bownse

Micky said:


> I still get a few emails a week asking specific questions, and that in and of itself is very rewarding to be able to help someone.
> 
> I am glad you have taken the time to go thru this. I can only hope others do as well.



Don't let him kid you. I asked him questions when I was new on the forum and he ignored me for weeks... well days... would you believe he answered right away with good info?


----------



## solarburn

Jethro Rocker said:


> I finally sold my 40C... Yes,I liked it. Yes it sounded great!! Just found I wasn't using It nearly enough playing out. Sorry!!



What a dick!


----------



## Jethro Rocker

I should have saved it for you Solarburn!!
There's kinda overlap, too. If I had more room...
TSL122, SJ2558, 6101 w 6912 ext cab, Traynor 2x12 cab, JVM410H, 6505 MH....will have to suffice....


----------



## rlowe

I recently posted a statement about Eurotubes recommendation for biasing the dsl40c. The first email I received from them stated 40-45. I thought well, this seems a little high according to the bias calculator at 70% dissipation 37.2 @ 470 plate voltage. The second email stated: Yes, 40 millivolts is the recommended setting. This is what Marshall recommends and is not too hot. I have tried it around these settings, and it sounds ok, but I like a bit more headroom and a cleaner sound. My current setting is biased @ 39.2 to allow for maybe 1-2 ma drift downward as it has down before.


----------



## ken361

I would think the clean and crunch would sound better hotter, cold is more bassy and less breakup. So you use the red channel at all? hows that now? so maybe going 2 over might be the sweet spot


----------



## Bownse

When I got mine, I first took it to some local place who biased it at 41. I wrapped my head around the risks of DIY, the process as documented here, biased it at 36 and have been happier with its range.


----------



## ken361

Bownse said:


> When I got mine, I first took it to some local place who biased it at 41. I wrapped my head around the risks of DIY, the process as documented here, biased it at 36 and have been happier with its range.


I use the red a lot so going hot will be brighter for sure so there's a fine line for using both channels


----------



## ken361

Bownse said:


> When I got mine, I first took it to some local place who biased it at 41. I wrapped my head around the risks of DIY, the process as documented here, biased it at 36 and have been happier with its range.[/QU
> Any idea what was the plate voltage was at for running 36?


----------



## ken361

Bownse said:


> When I got mine, I first took it to some local place who biased it at 41. I wrapped my head around the risks of DIY, the process as documented here, biased it at 36 and have been happier with its range.


Any idea what was the plate voltage was at running it at 36? 70%


----------



## Bownse

475


----------



## rlowe

ken361 said:


> I would think the clean and crunch would sound better hotter, cold is more bassy and less breakup. So you use the red channel at all? hows that now? so maybe going 2 over might be the sweet spot


Theoretically, if you do not use pedals the clean and crunch would sound better hotter; using pedals would provide the xtra boost if set cooler. (preference). I actually do not use much red channel due to less natural harmonic content. Necessity is the mother of invention


----------



## aryasridhar

Within a week of getting the DSL100H, i found the ultra channel to be brighter than the classic channel, so popped the C19 cap and it now transitions very well from one channel to another....

Also replaced the V1 tube with a JJ 12AX7 I had in my stash, the difference is good, the harshness at time has disappeared...

While looking for a cab for the DSL (was using a 112 cab), I looked at various options, Mesa 412, Marshall 1960A, Marshall MX412, MG412, Orange 212 PPC, Laney GS412PS, all of these were either too pricey or too cheap and were MDF constructed, which put me off really.

Until yesterday when i walked into the store and found a Peavey Valveking 412 cab, Birch Ply construction, 400w RMS handling, with Peavey Valveking Speakers, these speakers sound a lot similar to the Eminence Legend speaker I had sometime back....the top end is smooth and overall it has a lot of refinement, a bit of that bark is missing, but then i feel these would sound better once the speakers are well broken in...

The final setup, I also have a little giant, 5w head that i do not want to part with after selling my Orange OR15 yesterday.


----------



## ken361

I run a Tungsol in the v1,v2,v3 Sylvania's,lps in the PI slot. A lot smoother and dynamic over the stock jj's


----------



## solarburn

aryasridhar said:


> Within a week of getting the DSL100H, i found the ultra channel to be brighter than the classic channel, so popped the C19 cap and it now transitions very well from one channel to another....
> 
> Also replaced the V1 tube with a JJ 12AX7 I had in my stash, the difference is good, the harshness at time has disappeared...
> 
> While looking for a cab for the DSL (was using a 112 cab), I looked at various options, Mesa 412, Marshall 1960A, Marshall MX412, MG412, Orange 212 PPC, Laney GS412PS, all of these were either too pricey or too cheap and were MDF constructed, which put me off really.
> 
> Until yesterday when i walked into the store and found a Peavey Valveking 412 cab, Birch Ply construction, 400w RMS handling, with Peavey Valveking Speakers, these speakers sound a lot similar to the Eminence Legend speaker I had sometime back....the top end is smooth and overall it has a lot of refinement, a bit of that bark is missing, but then i feel these would sound better once the speakers are well broken in...
> 
> The final setup, I also have a little giant, 5w head that i do not want to part with after selling my Orange OR15 yesterday.




Listen...the speakers may sound good or not. The main thing is you have a ply wood cab you can put whatever speakers you want in it.

Well done son.


----------



## solarburn

ken361 said:


> I run a Tungsol in the v1,v2,v3 Sylvania's,lps in the PI slot. A lot smoother and dynamic over the stock jj's



Put an AC-7HG+ in V1 only. HG does not stand for high gain. High grade.


----------



## aryasridhar

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Listen...the speakers may sound good or not. The main thing is you have a ply wood cab you can put whatever speakers you want in it.
> 
> Well done son.



Thank You, exactly what I wanted a well built cab that was worth fooling around with. Certainly new speakers are on the card...


----------



## ken361

aryasridhar said:


> Thank You, exactly what I wanted a well built cab that was worth fooling around with. Certainly new speakers are on the card...


You find the red less brighter when turned up? From what I gathered the bright cap is on only at lower volume


----------



## MarshallDog

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Put an AC-7HG+ in V1 only. HG does not stand for high gain. High grade.



What is an AC-7HG+? Who makes it, where is a good place to buy them and what will it do for the tone and gain? Enough questions LOL!!!


----------



## aryasridhar

ken361 said:


> You find the red less brighter when turned up? From what I gathered the bright cap is on only at lower volume



And I mostly play at lower volumes, at higher volume it sounds the same, since more the pot is turned up the capacitor effect goes off!!


----------



## ken361

Ruby tubes


----------



## BanditPanda

ken361 said:


> I run a Tungsol in the v1,v2,v3 Sylvania's,lps in the PI slot. A lot smoother and dynamic over the stock jj's


This is my tube set up in the DSL 40C:
*V1 - *Mullard CV4004 / 12AX7
V2 & V3 - Svetlana 12AX7
V4 - JJ-ECC83 MG (Mid Gain)
POWER TUBES - Svetlana EL34


----------



## ken361

Need some help! I was going to check my plate voltage and might of had the meter set wrong and it blew a fuse, now when I tried 2 new 500 mv and its still blowing fuses. its the FS1


----------



## ken361

I did have it at 600v and got a LO sign maybe low batt maybe then I switched it to 200 ma and that blew it, dam I should of rechecked the video on line now what?


----------



## aryasridhar

ken361 said:


> I did have it at 600v and got a LO sign maybe low batt maybe then I switched it to 200 ma and that blew it, dam I should of rechecked the video on line now what?



That would blow the fuse in the Multimeter, which Multimeter is it?


----------



## ken361

aryasridhar said:


> That would blow the fuse in the Multimeter, which Multimeter is it?


Commercial electric ms8301a


----------



## ken361

Amp fuse blew


----------



## Micky

What did you touch with the probes?
Any scorch marks on the amp?


----------



## ken361

Micky said:


> What did you touch with the probes?
> Any scorch marks on the amp?


Black probe was on the chassis grounded and touched the red wire pin then the fuse blew,no marks anywhere. The fuse says fast acting is that right? different from slow blow?


----------



## ken361

A *slow blow fuse* is different from a *fast acting fuse* in its capability to withstand transient pulse currents, i.e., it can withstand the surge current upon power-on/off, thus ensuring the equipment works normally. Therefore, *slow blow fuses* are often called time-delay *fuses*.


----------



## solarburn

MarshallDog said:


> What is an AC-7HG+? Who makes it, where is a good place to buy them and what will it do for the tone and gain? Enough questions LOL!!!



http://www.dougstubes.com/preamp-tubes/12ax7-ecc83-7025/ruby-12ax7-ac7-hg.html

I get mine at Dougstubes.com. They are also named Preferred Series 7025 and the TAD 7025S.

I love these but only in V1. Crunchy warm overdrive. Cleans up nicely with guitar roll off. Highs sing and not harsh. Great mids. These have unseated some of my ANOS favs in V1.


----------



## MarshallDog

solarburnDSL50 said:


> http://www.dougstubes.com/preamp-tubes/12ax7-ecc83-7025/ruby-12ax7-ac7-hg.html
> 
> I get mine at Dougstubes.com. They are also named Preferred Series 7025 and the TAD 7025S.
> 
> I love these but only in V1. Crunchy warm overdrive. Cleans up nicely with guitar roll off. Highs sing and not harsh. Great mids. These have unseated some of my ANOS favs in V1.



No, kidding, I have the Tube Store Preferred Series 7025's in mine now. They sound like they are the same tube right? I do like them a lot!! Thanks!


----------



## solarburn

MarshallDog said:


> No, kidding, I have the Tube Store Preferred Series 7025's in mine now. They sound like they are the same tube right? I do like them a lot!! Thanks!



Yep. Same.


----------



## aryasridhar

ken361 said:


> Black probe was on the chassis grounded and touched the red wire pin then the fuse blew,no marks anywhere. The fuse says fast acting is that right? different from slow blow?



Ok, seems like something was accidentally shorted on the board, a good DMM will blow itself up now the equipment being tested usually. 

Can you share a good image of the board on the amp?

Are you sure the fuse you're replacing is the right spec? If not it'll keep blowing up.


----------



## ken361

should of got the slow blow fuse instead of the fast acting


----------



## BanditPanda

I don't know Ken. When a fuse blows it means something ain't right and you're better off knowing sooner than later no?


----------



## ken361

I dropped it off at the shop, the amp tech is well known he comes in and picks up the amps from the store and works on them at home, then returns them and works with Marshall warranties. He worked on a JVM when I had one he took care of it well. Might of shorted the transformer im pissed!


----------



## Bownse

Better the fuse than your heart. High Voltage isn't something to play with if you have any doubts.


----------



## aryasridhar

Sorry about this long post, however I really need help…

Until three days back (which is when I got my 412 cab), I was using this amp on 50w mode, with a 112 speaker, rated at 8 ohms & 80 watts. Worked fine and sounded great.

Did the C19 mod, removed one leg off of the board, worked fine post that, no problems there.

Changed V1 with a JJ 12AX7, worked fine post that too (however there were sounds as if it was trying to tune into a radio station), but not always.

My cab is rated at 16ohms, 400 watts, I always check for the resistnace of speakers before I hook them up to my amps, I did it with this cab too, the total resistance was *14 Ohms…..*

This morning when I plugged in and played, it worked fine for about 20 minutes, and suddenly the volume dropped, to almost nothing, and then a pop, so I immediately switched off the amp.

The amp was in 100w mode, then switched it on and the moment I moved it from Standby to On, there was a huge screeching noise, along with a spark that I could see happened under the cabinet, so I shut if off again.

I have only used this amp in 50w mode since I bought it, and it is only three days back when I got the 412 which could handle the 100 watts this amp delivers is I switched from Pentode (Half Power) to Triode Mode (Full Power).

I was really liking this amp in 50 watt mode, and the 100w mode sounded like there was something missing or weird…could be just my ears and the new cab speaker, that are not broken in.

I wanted to bias this amp though, as in the 3rd image, you can see the bias pots are pointing in different directions (I know this does not necessarily mean they are off biased) however wanted to verify that anyway. But was too lazy.

The first two images of the PCB are when I had opened up the amp (for the first time) to see the guts, and this is how those two resistors, R67 & R68 looked like.







And today after all of this happened, I opened up the chassis and saw this, R67 has a visible mark, also it reads nothing (open) on my multimeter, whereas R68 reads about 1.4ohms.






I know these are 1 Ohm, 2 watt resistors to ground.

Here are the bias trim pots, I did not make any adjustments to these, although I wanted to bias the amp, but had not done it so far.






Here’s what I have checked so far post this incident.

1) All screen resistors on the power tubes, they all are OK.

2) Checked he Bias Resistors, R67 is open, R68 reads 1.4 ohms.

3) There are no other visible damages to any other component on the board.

4) All the fuses are intact.

5) All 4 Power and All 4 Preamp tubes glow.

6) No burnt wires seen.

7) In 50w mode, there is a lot of hum even with the volume of both channels down all the way.


· Would be great if you could please advise what may be the issue, and if I should expect anything else blown up inside too?

· Also I am not sure why the bias resistor would blow up, would appreciate experts pitching in please.

· I do not have spare power tubes; I do have spare preamp tubes.

I cannot return the amp, that’s sadly not a privilege I have here, as customer care and after sales sucks, if I hand the amp over, I might get it back in a much terrible condition, and replacements are out of question.

Would highly appreciate the expert advice please.

Regards

Arya


----------



## MarshallDog

Might be worth replacing the resistor and the power tubes and trying it again. You verified a lot of the components are fine already. Hopefully someone else can assist who has more experience with a situation similar to this.

You should have put this in a separate thread so you would get more attention and feedback....good luck!


----------



## aryasridhar

MarshallDog said:


> Might be worth replacing the resistor and the power tubes and trying it again. You verified a lot of the components are fine already. Hopefully someone else can assist who has more experience with a situation similar to this.
> 
> You should have put this in a separate thread so you would get more attention and feedback....good luck!



Thank you for the idea, i did post a dedicated clip in the workbench area, and created one here in this section too....


----------



## Micky

Resistor is definitely shot, I would have both replaced.
Also chances are a power tube is gone, just because it glows doesn't mean it is good.
Just means the heaters are working.


----------



## aryasridhar

Micky said:


> Resistor is definitely shot, I would have both replaced.
> Also chances are a power tube is gone, just because it glows doesn't mean it is good.
> Just means the heaters are working.



Right, I'd referenced the power tubes glowing implying the PS was OK.

Just took readings on all power tube plate voltages, comes up about 518.4 vDC on all four...


----------



## Bownse

The trim 1 & 2 pots can be pointing different directions and not be a problem. It's their results on bias that matter.

Looks like you cooked resistor R67 and, by extension, possible other things in line with it. Like others have said, losing 67 could have seriously stressed it's partner and having both swapped would add little cost over 1.

I can't tell if the side of the C43 stack is bowed out from expansion from the photo But I don't think so. I also can't tell what's going on underneath the board.


The 500mFA fuse needs to have a continuity check and replaced (with the exact same type fuse) if it's failed. Sometimes eye-balling it isn't enough. I can't tell if the board under the fuse is affected or if it's just the lighting of the photo.

From what I can tell, it doesn't look like any board traces are cooked (at least on this side).

Hie thee to a specialist.


----------



## Greatwhitenorth

Bownse said:


> The trim 1 & 2 pots can be pointing different directions and not be a problem. It's their results on bias that matter.
> 
> Looks like you cooked resistor R67 and, by extension, possible other things in line with it. I can't tell if the side of the C43 stack is bowed out from expansion from the photo. I also can't tell what's going on underneath the board.
> 
> 
> The 500mFA fuse needs to have a continuity check and replaced (with the exact same type fuse) if it's failed. Sometimes eye-balling it isn't enough. I can't tell if the board under the fuse is affected or if it's just the lighting of the photo.
> 
> From what I can tell, it doesn't look like any board traces are cooked (at least on this side).
> 
> Hie thee to a specialist.



I was just going to suggest amp tech.


----------



## aryasridhar

I recalled about an hour back that "MarshallDog" had sent me the schematic of the DSL40C, a blessing in disguise, Thank You "MarshallDog"

The EL34 shorted and took the resistor along.

Also, I could not figure out much since I had no schematic (atleast I thought i did not have one), luckily I was checking my emails and found the email with the schematic sent by "MarshallDog"

The one with the X is the blown Tube





I swapped spots to see if it was really dead...





Tried at another spot...


----------



## Bownse

So, your diagnosis says that tube blew and took the resistor with it. Yet you move it to another location? Wouldn't that put more stuff at risk?


----------



## rlowe

Risky, risky I had cleaned my carpet last night and set most everything on my bed. Today, after reading the article above, I moved everything to the floor plugged my 40c back in and could not get a sound. I checked my extensive pedal board, nothing. Checked the back of amp nothing. Checked Pentode/Triode switch sh..t, switch was stuck half way in between. Switched it back and in business. What a relief...I'll wait on the Alka-Seltzer. best of luck above on the tube, transistor issue!


----------



## aryasridhar

Bownse said:


> So, your diagnosis says that tube blew and took the resistor with it. Yet you move it to another location? Wouldn't that put more stuff at risk?



No, I just did a quick test to see if the tube was faulty or the socket, in standby, so no real plate voltages applied at all. Just to see if the filament even glows on that tube in another socket.

I won't be using the amp with that tube in there obviously, getting a new set tomorrow to replace.


----------



## MarshallDog

aryasridhar said:


> No, I just did a quick test to see if the tube was faulty or the socket, in standby, so no real plate voltages applied at all. Just to see if the filament even glows on that tube in another socket.
> 
> I won't be using the amp with that tube in there obviously, getting a new set tomorrow to replace.



What brand of tubes are you getting, just curious?


----------



## aryasridhar

MarshallDog said:


> What brand of tubes are you getting, just curious?



This guy has some Edicron, NEC, some RCA and some GE NOS tubes, he's selling those pretty cheap than anywhere I've seen online....I got to pick the matching quad, he's a tube supplier to many here and said he would give me two pairs or matched sets. And the 1ohm 2w mil spec resistors too...


----------



## aryasridhar

Alright, the beast is back roaring again!!

Replaced both the resistors…

The RCA Tube – The print is pretty faint!!






Came in its boxes, pretty good I feel.






The 1 Ohm 2W (mil spec) resistors.






Installed resistors.







The biasing was off, I had about 82mA on one side and about 70mA on the other side, which I believe now explains why the 100w mode sounded to have something missing to my ears.

Re-biased to 72mA each side, it sounds pretty RAD now. Although I am yet to try out all the tubes at once..I am pretty sure it will not drift, but I will keep monitoring for a day or two….after some use.

Here’s a quick clip of how it sounds after all of the above, Oh and I also replaced the JJ in V1 with the Original Marshall V1 tube.


----------



## ken361

Feels good huh im waiting on my moment


----------



## aryasridhar

So I removed the old tubes, and placed the NOS Edicron & RCA's in the slots, RCA's are matched and Edicron's are Matched, damn this thing sounds like heaven suddenly....


----------



## ken361

aryasridhar said:


> So I removed the old tubes, and placed the NOS Edicron & RCA's in the slots, RCA's are matched and Edicron's are Matched, damn this thing sounds like heaven suddenly....



Cant go wrong with RCA's


----------



## kev67

my brain is DSL mush... just finished reading the thread


----------



## kev67

Whats the difference between the hand wired circuit boards and say a good printed trace board?


----------



## Bownse

If both are done well, cleanliness of design.


----------



## Micky

kev67 said:


> Whats the difference between the hand wired circuit boards and say a good printed trace board?


Better/different components are used


----------



## kev67

All you guys who have tinkered in the guts of the DSL and posted your info need to be applauded.
You have given us ideas and knowledge on ways to go in improving our amps if we want to...

Salute 

Micky.. i recall that you wrote about having an index of mods... Have they been included in that Joey mod thread?


----------



## aryasridhar

Anyone care to share their amp settings for Rock/Blues Rock/Hard Rock on the DSL's please?


----------



## Len

aryasridhar said:


> Anyone care to share their amp settings for Rock/Blues Rock/Hard Rock on the DSL's please?


All controls except Presence areound noon. Presence around 9 o'clock.


----------



## aryasridhar

Len said:


> All controls except Presence areound noon. Presence around 9 o'clock.



Wow, that's how I use it pretty much, I do add a bit of presence after doing the C19 mod.


----------



## Samster

Hi everybody, I plan to play Rickenbacker bass on a dsl40c

any pro's and cunts to share about this?
normally I have a three amp setup, using the stereo output.
High element divided through a chorus into two guitar amps with some distortion,
and the bass element went to a dry mosfet seventies Yamaha..

Too dry to my liking so to say.

I play in a psychobillyband, and we also have a doublebass in the band, so that's a lot of bass allready.
The Ebass is actually more of a heavy guitar, playing chords and bending strings.
My paws just are a little to big to do the fiddlyfiddly on a sixstring guitar..

So what you guys think?
Cheers from Belgium


----------



## Samster

Have I killed the thread? Or do I better make a separate topic for this?


----------



## guitardude57

I am interested to do the mods to a DSL 40C that is fairly new.
It has a single board, with the dsp daughter board mounted on top.
The board designation is; DSL 100-60-00 Issue 1

Has anyone done any to this?

Thanks!


----------



## BanditPanda

Samster said:


> Hi everybody, I plan to play Rickenbacker bass on a dsl40c
> So what you guys think?
> Cheers from Belgium



Helllo Samster. Not that I can speak on behalf of anybody but myself however I think that we may not know what to think about playing a bass guitar thru a DSL40C ! More than likely the majority on here are six stringers ( or even seven). Perhaps we are appalled by the idea of playing a bass guitar through one of our beloved amps. lol.
In any event, Welcome to the Marshall Forum and good luck with the project.
BP


----------



## BanditPanda

aryasridhar said:


> Anyone care to share their amp settings for Rock/Blues Rock/Hard Rock on the DSL's please?



Green , clean , Gain on 10. Take it from there. Courtesy of Solarburn


----------



## Samster

BanditPanda said:


> Helllo Samster. Not that I can speak on behalf of anybody but myself however I think that we may not know what to think about playing a bass guitar thru a DSL40C ! More than likely the majority on here are six stringers ( or even seven). Perhaps we are appalled by the idea of playing a bass guitar through one of our beloved amps. lol.
> In any event, Welcome to the Marshall Forum and good luck with the project.
> BP


Thanks for the reply, maybe I should post some sound..
I'd just like to know if you can ruin a DSL40c playing bass through it, should be someone on earth who knows right?
Still, a bass is basically a guitar with thicker strings 

On the trebleside I've been playing for about 4 years on a Marshall Valvestate 40v, never had any troubles with it.

Anyhow, I ordered one, so we'll see what happens. If it blows or causes the universe to collapse playing Rick on it, I hope it happens onstage


----------



## Len

guitardude57 said:


> I am interested to do the mods to a DSL 40C that is fairly new.
> It has a single board, with the dsp daughter board mounted on top.
> The board designation is; DSL 100-60-00 Issue 1
> 
> Has anyone done any to this?
> 
> Thanks!


What mods are you looking to do?


----------



## guitardude57

Len said:


> What mods are you looking to do?


Balance out the clean/crunch volume better (not increase gain per se, just overall volume) to match the ultra, and smooth out the general tones. The amp isn't horrible, can be better.
Amp is used for southern rock, and blues...no metal needed.

I see all kinds of fun mods to the earlier models...

This unit has the DSL 100-60-00 Series one board.
Thanx


----------



## ken361

simple fix you just turn the volume up on the crunch channel! lol


----------



## guitardude57

ken361 said:


> simple fix you just turn the volume up on the crunch channel! lol


not when it is already maxed...lol

Guess maybe too much is getting dumped somewhere... maybe R14


----------



## ken361

when I run the red at 4 or so on the 40 watt mode, the crunch at 7 is as loud on mine as the red. Could boost the crunch or cleans it gets way loud


----------



## guitardude57

ken361 said:


> when I run the red at 4 or so on the 40 watt mode, the crunch at 7 is as loud on mine as the red. Could boost the crunch or cleans it gets way loud


With the Ultra up where it sounds OK, about half way up, the Crunch is maxed, and still not loud enough for a good match. The customer typically blows the amp into the room, not mic'd, and is frustrated.

And, I am waiting on a new Output Tranny and choke to come in.
I regularly build scratch Marshall circuits. So I know how much a new OT and choke will improve the overall feel and tone of this amp.


----------



## Bownse

Samster said:


> Thanks for the reply, maybe I should post some sound..
> I'd just like to know if you can ruin a DSL40c playing bass through it, should be someone on earth who knows right?
> 
> Still, a bass is basically a guitar with thicker strings



The freq response may not be in the range needed to support the full range of a bass. I suspect there would be low-end roll off with high-end head room never fully used.


----------



## Samster

Bownse said:


> The freq response may not be in the range needed to support the full range of a bass. I suspect there would be low-end roll off with high-end head room never fully used.


Ok thanks for this input, this is also what I notice with the valvestate that I use now, but since there's a doublebass in the band, we don't really miss that lower ebass part. My main concern is wether I wreck the amp by doing it like this ..


----------



## Len

guitardude57 said:


> Balance out the clean/crunch volume better (not increase gain per se, just overall volume) to match the ultra, and smooth out the general tones. The amp isn't horrible, can be better.
> Amp is used for southern rock, and blues...no metal needed.
> 
> I see all kinds of fun mods to the earlier models...
> 
> This unit has the DSL 100-60-00 Series one board.
> Thanx


Never heard of there being DSL40s with different boards in them. Are you sure there's more than one version?


----------



## Micky

Len said:


> Never heard of there being DSL40s with different boards in them. Are you sure there's more than one version?


Nope. Also, the DSL100h uses the same board and chassis.


----------



## rlowe

Samster said:


> Hi everybody, I plan to play Rickenbacker bass on a dsl40c
> 
> any pro's and cunts to share about this?
> normally I have a three amp setup, using the stereo output.
> High element divided through a chorus into two guitar amps with some distortion,
> and the bass element went to a dry mosfet seventies Yamaha..
> 
> Too dry to my liking so to say.
> 
> I play in a psychobillyband, and we also have a doublebass in the band, so that's a lot of bass allready.
> The Ebass is actually more of a heavy guitar, playing chords and bending strings.
> My paws just are a little to big to do the fiddlyfiddly on a sixstring guitar..
> 
> So what you guys think?
> Cheers from Belgium


 Here is an interesting link i found on basically two searches this link from Celestion UK. Pro's and Cunt's??


----------



## guitardude57

Micky said:


> Nope. Also, the DSL100h uses the same board and chassis.


This amp is a 2014. Prior DSL models had multiple boards and a completely different number sequence of ID...so, yes.


----------



## Len

guitardude57 said:


> This amp is a 2014. Prior DSL models had multiple boards and a completely different number sequence of ID...so, yes.


DSL"40"s?


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Samster said:


> Ok thanks for this input, this is also what I notice with the valvestate that I use now, but since there's a doublebass in the band, we don't really miss that lower ebass part. My main concern is wether I wreck the amp by doing it like this ..


You coukd blow the speaker if turned up too loud, I mean, the bass frequencies will really push that speaker. If it's kept go reasonable levels and doesn't bottom out, play it. I used to do it with my SJ 2558 once in awhile with distortion just for fun.


----------



## guitardude57

Len said:


> DSL"40"s?


Evidently there were a 100, and a 50, with a few different rev's, then the 15.
The newest series is the 40C which uses the same board as the newer 100.
Marshall also as usual, isn't being free with the latest schematics.

There is a bunch of docs on this forum, for various mods to the older series of builds.
Like 5 different board sets from what I gather. And you know if the layout has changed
from a multiple pcb build, into one board...makes it a pain in the ass to go from multiple
drawings from multiple amps to see what the changes are, and what mods are even necessary.

Now if you see the quandary...


----------



## Len

guitardude57 said:


> Evidently there were a 100, and a 50, with a few different rev's, then the 15.
> The newest series is the 40C which uses the same board as the newer 100.
> Marshall also as usual, isn't being free with the latest schematics.
> 
> There is a bunch of docs on this forum, for various mods to the older series of builds.
> Like 5 different board sets from what I gather. And you know if the layout has changed
> from a multiple pcb build, into one board...makes it a pain in the ass to go from multiple
> drawings from multiple amps to see what the changes are, and what mods are even necessary.
> 
> Now if you see the quandary...


The quandary I see is that this is a DSL40 thread and there's a discussion about board differences that relates to other amp models.


----------



## Micky

There are NO different rev's for the DSL40c. One board.
Same board for the DSL100h. NO different rev's.

Can't really stop people from discussing amps other than the DSL40c...
I know of no other docs for other amps here in this thread...


----------



## Micky

guitardude57 said:


> This amp is a 2014. Prior DSL models had multiple boards and a completely different number sequence of ID...so, yes.


There are no other DSL40c's. Just the one. No revision yet.
Prior to this there was the JCM2000 series.


----------



## guitardude57

Good, so back to the original question, has anyone done any mods to their 40C?
And schematics?
Thanx


----------



## MarshallDog

Mine is a 2013 and it has 3 different boards. The main board, the input board jack and the affects board stacked on top the main board... for what it is worth!!!


----------



## guitardude57

Correct.


----------



## aryasridhar

The new DSL100H and DSL40 use the same boards...


----------



## guitardude57

aryasridhar said:


> The new DSL100H and DSL40 use the same boards...


Yes, we know...


----------



## rlowe

Bownse said:


> The freq response may not be in the range needed to support the full range of a bass. I suspect there would be low-end roll off with high-end head room never fully used.


And of course not to mention, a speaker designed for guitar frequency, slowly deteriorating from the constant low frequency of a bass guitar. Celestion has demonstrated this fact.


----------



## Micky

guitardude57 said:


> Good, so back to the original question, has anyone done any mods to their 40C?
> And schematics?
> Thanx


That is the type of question that makes me want to roll up this thread and force it down your throat. Have you read this thread? Have you even tried? All this thread is dedicated to mods for this amp.

I would suggest you start at page one, and don't post here again until you read thru to the last page.

Then come back here and realize that question you asked is rather insulting. There are countless members that have dedicated much of their lives to this amp and with a little reading you can realize that.


----------



## ken361

Anyone using the ET65 speaker? how you like it


----------



## BanditPanda

Yes. Originally purchased and placed in my Fender Blues Deluxe but took it out and installed in the DSL 40CV.
Suits me fine although I have not tried it out at volume yet.


----------



## ken361

I had a Eminence GB 128 in my old blues deluxe it worked great and the crunch totally usable


----------



## Bownse

I'll post updates shortly. Right now my 40c is apart and being transplanted into 2 boxes. A head unit and a 2x12 speaker cab (both in solid pine). For now the 2 speakers will be the OE 70/80 along with the G12H-75 Creamback in my sig block. That's more of a convenience and may change based on how they play together.

The plan is to wrap up the OE cab and store it in case I want to restore it to factory config some time (doubtful though).


----------



## guitardude57

Yes we all know the 100 and the 40c have the same boards.

I knew that before I joined the forum. 
It seems there are no Techs on the 40C here.

All the mods I have seen to the earlier DSL amps made good changes to the amp.
And no one seems to have a current model schematic...

Has anyone had any issues, and done any mods to their 40C ?
That is all I want to know now.


----------



## Len

guitardude57 said:


> Yes we all know the 100 and the 40c have the same boards.
> 
> I knew that before I joined the forum.
> It seems there are no Techs on the 40C here.
> 
> All the mods I have seen to the earlier DSL amps made good changes to the amp.
> And no one seems to have a current model schematic...
> 
> Has anyone had any issues, and done any mods to their 40C ?
> That is all I want to know now.


Yes, dozens of us have modded our DSL40s, as is discussed earlier in this thread. The thread describes who did what, and how they liked the mods.


----------



## Micky

guitardude57 said:


> It seems there are no Techs on the 40C here.
> 
> All the mods I have seen to the earlier DSL amps made good changes to the amp.
> And no one seems to have a current model schematic...
> 
> Has anyone had any issues, and done any mods to their 40C ?
> That is all I want to know now.


Seriously?

No issues. And yes, MY DSL40c is heavily modded.

Read the thread and find out for yourself.


----------



## guitardude57

Micky said:


> Seriously?
> 
> No issues. And yes, MY DSL40c is heavily modded.
> 
> Read the thread and find out for yourself.



All 327 pages...lol I guess I have a bunch of reading to do. As I find the stuff, will try to save and organize the data so that maybe a sticky could be done, with just the info and parts.
Thank you.


----------



## DirtySteve

Have you tried the search function? There is tons of info in this thread.


----------



## Ghostman

guitardude57 said:


> All 327 pages...lol I guess I have a bunch of reading to do. As I find the stuff, will try to save and organize the data so that maybe a sticky could be done, with just the info and parts.
> Thank you.



okay, good. Start with Step 1: read the thread, all 327 pages. 

See you in a month.


----------



## rlowe

Bownse said:


> I'll post updates shortly. Right now my 40c is apart and being transplanted into 2 boxes. A head unit and a 2x12 speaker cab (both in solid pine). For now the 2 speakers will be the OE 70/80 along with the G12H-75 Creamback in my sig block. That's more of a convenience and may change based on how they play together.
> 
> The plan is to wrap up the OE cab and store it in case I want to restore it to factory config some time (doubtful though).


 Yes, considered doing just that myself, but for now I use the dsl40c w/celestion vintage 30, and a small Marshall cab ext. w/celestion 70/80. Angled inward towards my playing it doesn't sound too bad in the mix.


----------



## guitardude57

Ghostman said:


> okay, good. Start with Step 1: read the thread, all 327 pages.
> 
> See you in a month.



LOL Yeah once I get past all the favorite color speakers...


----------



## Bownse

rlowe said:


> Yes, considered doing just that myself, but for now I use the dsl40c w/celestion vintage 30, and a small Marshall cab ext. w/celestion 70/80. Angled inward towards my playing it doesn't sound too bad in the mix.



To me it's 2-fold. I do the mini-stack look but I also bust up the 60+lb load of the combo into 2 boxes. No need to muskle the whole thing around just to swap a tube, etc.

I was in the market for a mini-fridge last week and was tempted to get the one that looks like a Marshall stack. However, the reviews weren't kind. I guess they still use Lucas Electrics.


----------



## aryasridhar

After all the initial issues i've had, the NOS tubes are kicking some serious tones off this amp, biased at 72mv per side, this thing has turned into a beast.

I was not liking the valveking cab so much, but i guess this is slowly sinking in and i am really liking what i am hearing off this cab.

These were the settings, used my LP with the Peavey Valveking 412 cab.








and here's some high gain stuff.....apologies for the sloppy playing though....

https://www.dropbox.com/s/413nft4zayqnxkb/MARSHALL HEAVY GAIN NEW.mp3?dl=0


----------



## Dogs of Doom

a certain "band of brothers" have decided to make this thread their bully pulpit, so I'll go ahead & close her down...

Too bad, it has been a good resource & hopefully will continue to be, but no longer to add to. If you guys can't play nice, then we won't play that game...


----------



## Dogs of Doom

Ok, we looked into the drama that occurred here & have taken care of things. I am going to re-open the thread.

note: lets' keep this thread drama free. Micky started this thread w/ good intentions as a resource for DSL40 owners. Let's keep it that way. If you're new, read through & try & find what you're looking for. Micky made a semi-index in post #1. 

If anyone sees an issue in here, let us know/report it - thanks!

Carry on!


----------



## Screamin Willie

Thank you.

Willie


----------



## guitardude57

Indeed, Thank you.


----------



## pluck

Ttepper said:


> To all, check your bias and check it often. Got my 40C new yesterday, tested it tonight. One tube was 41mA and the other at 42mA - too hot for a plate voltage of 450V. Brought them down to 35mA and the amp runs much cooler. I have not had a chance to really crank it yet, so I can't comment on whether a few millivolts made any measurable tonal difference. Cheers.



I wonder if this could be the issue with mine...I've had it about 2 months , bought 2nd hand, all stock as far as I can tell and in excellent condition with the white tolex cabinet. I am convinced something is amiss with the gain sounds...it's just too 'soft'. I've matched settings from some who've posted clips with their settings and particularly on the classic crunch tones, which I really want to like, mine is less gainy, smoother and unless I really belt the notes out by picking hard, the gain drops off and that ballsy gusto isn't there like I hear in the clips I've matched settings to. It's plenty loud and has plenty of bass, don't get me wrong but it's a fair bit flatter and duller sounding by comparison. Then on the red channel, with gain at about 7-8, pedaling on an open E or A string between chords seems to lack that bite ...the pedaled open string sounds bassy and muffled, no bite. ....I really don't know the history of the amp, other than it looks in excellent condition...I'm thinking either I or a tech should check the bias and if that's not set too low or whatever, invest in another set of preamp tubes maybe?....


----------



## aryasridhar

I bought a new set of cables yesterday

Sommers 16AWG speaker cable with Amphenol Jacks & a Hosa cable (10ft).

I felt the stock speaker cable that came with this amp was horrible, and I was right, could instantly hear much pronounced and clear higher mids and highs, that blanket was instantly off..

I am now planning to replace all the cables in the chain, to and from my pedalboard and for the fx i use in the loop as well as change all the patch cables with sommer' cables, I also looked at belden, I guess those are good cables too.

This is how it sounds (recorded with my iPhone)


I am about to put back C19, will try some values and see which works best, getting some silver mica caps for that, and NICHICON Filter caps, and a Hammond 3H/250mA choke.


----------



## Bownse

A new speaker cable is an interesting approach. I thought it looked like it was mfgr cost-spec'd. Thanks.

As for Pluck's in-person experience vs that of a recording... as with all playbacks, YMMV. How it's recorded and how it's played back can greatly affect the sounds.


----------



## jeffb

I am experiencing some bias drift with mine...twice now. And it really sounds like complete garbage when the bias ramps up.

Been wanting to try some KT77s (JJ, GLs not in the budget with the Holidays approaching) in it anyway so will re- bias again when they arrive.

And thanks for re-opening the thread, mods.


----------



## ken361

jeffb said:


> I am experiencing some bias drift with mine...twice now. And it really sounds like complete garbage when the bias ramps up.
> 
> Been wanting to try some KT77s (JJ, GLs not in the budget with the Holidays approaching) in it anyway so will re- bias again when they arrive.
> 
> And thanks for re-opening the thread, mods.


how much apart are they?


----------



## jeffb

ramped up from 38 on each side to 42/45


----------



## ken361

Had mine go up with EH 36 to 39 41 months after rechecking,then now with Tungsols with 36 went down to 34 32 then 36 rebiased to 36 again 39 37 can expect some but hate it at times as long there not more then 8 a part there OK I guess but I don't want the crunch being sterile or the red being too hot! Maybe nos is the way. I have to ask my tech if he heard of any issues


----------



## ken361

jeffb said:


> ramped up from 38 on each side to 42/45


Thats pretty crazy


----------



## aryasridhar

jeffb said:


> ramped up from 38 on each side to 42/45



A 4 to 7 mV/mA drift on both sides isn't going to affect the amp.

Are both sides reading almost the same? Is what you need to worry about.

Also would recommend you run them low and change a notch or two every week. The parts will hold bias better that way.

For example if your target is 38, start from 28 for a week, then onto 33 for a week and then 38. Monitor for a week or so.

Also the bias resistors to ground, are not good quality and have a 5% tolerance, it is best to replace them with something that has tighter tolerance for accurate measurements, if that is how you are measuring.

I had replaced the ones in mine with some mil spec resistors i got my hands on.


----------



## Jethro Rocker

pluck said:


> I wonder if this could be the issue with mine...I've had it about 2 months , bought 2nd hand, all stock as far as I can tell and in excellent condition with the white tolex cabinet. I am convinced something is amiss with the gain sounds...it's just too 'soft'. I've matched settings from some who've posted clips with their settings and particularly on the classic crunch tones, which I really want to like, mine is less gainy, smoother and unless I really belt the notes out by picking hard, the gain drops off and that ballsy gusto isn't there like I hear in the clips I've matched settings to. It's plenty loud and has plenty of bass, don't get me wrong but it's a fair bit flatter and duller sounding by comparison. Then on the red channel, with gain at about 7-8, pedaling on an open E or A string between chords seems to lack that bite ...the pedaled open string sounds bassy and muffled, no bite. ....I really don't know the history of the amp, other than it looks in excellent condition...I'm thinking either I or a tech should check the bias and if that's not set too low or whatever, invest in another set of preamp tubes maybe?....


Check bias, try tubes.
So hard to tell. Red channel Lead 1??? Lead 2 is excessive gain and can lose definition. Crunch channel gain pinned, mine would fade to clean. NOt enough gain for me boost it with an OD. It should be very bright though and have some bite.


----------



## ken361

BanditPanda said:


> Yes. Originally purchased and placed in my Fender Blues Deluxe but took it out and installed in the DSL 40CV.
> Suits me fine although I have not tried it out at volume yet.


Ordered it today!everyone loves these speakers on other boards so will see


----------



## rlowe

Hell, I only bias my power tubes about every 6 months. They may change (fluctuate a bit) but still sound good. One and done unless there is some sort of problem with it. E34L's are a bit more agrressive, punchy. Merry Christmas!


----------



## jeffb

They are reading 42 and 45. Up from 38 each.

Thanks for the fyi on the mods/components-beyond my skill level , and I plan on replacing the amp in a few months so I probably won't bother, but hope others find it useful.



aryasridhar said:


> A 4 to 7 mV/mA drift on both sides isn't going to affect the amp.
> 
> Are both sides reading almost the same? Is what you need to worry about.
> 
> Also would recommend you run them low and change a notch or two every week. The parts will hold bias better that way.
> 
> For example if your target is 38, start from 28 for a week, then onto 33 for a week and then 38. Monitor for a week or so.
> 
> Also the bias resistors to ground, are not good quality and have a 5% tolerance, it is best to replace them with something that has tighter tolerance for accurate measurements, if that is how you are measuring.
> 
> I had replaced the ones in mine with some mil spec resistors i got my hands on.


----------



## Bownse

Once I took mine to a good (tube-aware) tech for a full checkup (not just biasing), I've not had tube problems or noticable bias drift since. Same tubes and no touch up on bias since... 6/16/15.

That means it's as stable as the used Fender Baseman 100 I had back in the 70s (which I never had to think about).


----------



## whitecloud

Whew, 328 pages in, finally. This took a couple months. I did my introduction yesterday on this forum and expect delivery of my DLS40c tomorrow.
This amp has traveled across the country and where I live below freezing temps the past few days. I suppose I should let the box and amp acclimate to inside temperatures but not the 24 hour wait I had last year this time getting an acoustic guitar from the same retailer. Here's the deal. the amp is a supposed factory refurb with full 1 year warranty. I did ask what that meant and was told it might have a slight cosmetic defect like a scratch. What I wonder does Marshall really have these amps checked out enough to pass some kind of inspection to make them worth of re-sale, or is it just a crap shoot? I paid just over 530 bucks so thought it to be a sweet deal. From the info here this is kinda how I'll proceed in evaluating the amp. After it has warmed up and have selected my guitar of choice, play it and hope now glaring issues right out of the box. Taking the back off the cabinet will not void warranty to check tubes, if they are seated, glowing, tap to check if micro-phonic etc. I have spare 12ax7's on hand if need be. Don't have any el34's which leads to if there was a power tube issue, things get a bit dicey. I mean at this point it would involve taking the chassis out to check or re-bias and from what I gather screws can strip or fall out thus at this point making things obvious enough to void warranty. I will add if things were at this point I would of contacted the retailer to see how they handle things. I am just a bit more nervous as this is a refurb. Now I bought a Orange Dark Terror a few years back that was a refurb and to tell you the truth it looked brand new, couldn't tell but this is another manufacturer and retailer. The Orange is still going strong.
Setting all the paranoia aside I have several "lawsuit" guitars from the late 70' early 80's plus a couple of Gretsch's. Most of these axes have aftermarket pickups from a specialized winder. For pedals a few nice ones, Bogner Blue and La Grange, the latter also has a nice separate boost.
I hope I don't need them much, but they are at my disposal. A Boss Dm-2w, TC AEx4, EHX Super Pulsar to name a few. So hope all goes well tomorrow and I sure will share once I've had a chance to blast away. So thanks Mickey and all that have contributed on this thread. I am not going in thinking instant mods as I have a 1x12 and 4x12 to play this combo through in comparison to the 70/80


----------



## Screamin Willie

whitecloud said:


> Whew, 328 pages in, finally. This took a couple months. I did my introduction yesterday on this forum and expect delivery of my DLS40c tomorrow.
> This amp has traveled across the country and where I live below freezing temps the past few days. I suppose I should let the box and amp acclimate to inside temperatures but not the 24 hour wait I had last year this time getting an acoustic guitar from the same retailer. Here's the deal. the amp is a supposed factory refurb with full 1 year warranty. I did ask what that meant and was told it might have a slight cosmetic defect like a scratch. What I wonder does Marshall really have these amps checked out enough to pass some kind of inspection to make them worth of re-sale, or is it just a crap shoot? I paid just over 530 bucks so thought it to be a sweet deal. From the info here this is kinda how I'll proceed in evaluating the amp. After it has warmed up and have selected my guitar of choice, play it and hope now glaring issues right out of the box. Taking the back off the cabinet will not void warranty to check tubes, if they are seated, glowing, tap to check if micro-phonic etc. I have spare 12ax7's on hand if need be. Don't have any el34's which leads to if there was a power tube issue, things get a bit dicey. I mean at this point it would involve taking the chassis out to check or re-bias and from what I gather screws can strip or fall out thus at this point making things obvious enough to void warranty. I will add if things were at this point I would of contacted the retailer to see how they handle things. I am just a bit more nervous as this is a refurb. Now I bought a Orange Dark Terror a few years back that was a refurb and to tell you the truth it looked brand new, couldn't tell but this is another manufacturer and retailer. The Orange is still going strong.
> Setting all the paranoia aside I have several "lawsuit" guitars from the late 70' early 80's plus a couple of Gretsch's. Most of these axes have aftermarket pickups from a specialized winder. For pedals a few nice ones, Bogner Blue and La Grange, the latter also has a nice separate boost.
> I hope I don't need them much, but they are at my disposal. A Boss Dm-2w, TC AEx4, EHX Super Pulsar to name a few. So hope all goes well tomorrow and I sure will share once I've had a chance to blast away. So thanks Mickey and all that have contributed on this thread. I am not going in thinking instant mods as I have a 1x12 and 4x12 to play this combo through in comparison to the 70/80



Congrats, man. Fingers crossed for you.

Willie


----------



## aryasridhar

whitecloud said:


> Whew, 328 pages in, finally. This took a couple months. I did my introduction yesterday on this forum and expect delivery of my DLS40c tomorrow.
> This amp has traveled across the country and where I live below freezing temps the past few days. I suppose I should let the box and amp acclimate to inside temperatures but not the 24 hour wait I had last year this time getting an acoustic guitar from the same retailer. Here's the deal. the amp is a supposed factory refurb with full 1 year warranty. I did ask what that meant and was told it might have a slight cosmetic defect like a scratch. What I wonder does Marshall really have these amps checked out enough to pass some kind of inspection to make them worth of re-sale, or is it just a crap shoot? I paid just over 530 bucks so thought it to be a sweet deal. From the info here this is kinda how I'll proceed in evaluating the amp. After it has warmed up and have selected my guitar of choice, play it and hope now glaring issues right out of the box. Taking the back off the cabinet will not void warranty to check tubes, if they are seated, glowing, tap to check if micro-phonic etc. I have spare 12ax7's on hand if need be. Don't have any el34's which leads to if there was a power tube issue, things get a bit dicey. I mean at this point it would involve taking the chassis out to check or re-bias and from what I gather screws can strip or fall out thus at this point making things obvious enough to void warranty. I will add if things were at this point I would of contacted the retailer to see how they handle things. I am just a bit more nervous as this is a refurb. Now I bought a Orange Dark Terror a few years back that was a refurb and to tell you the truth it looked brand new, couldn't tell but this is another manufacturer and retailer. The Orange is still going strong.
> Setting all the paranoia aside I have several "lawsuit" guitars from the late 70' early 80's plus a couple of Gretsch's. Most of these axes have aftermarket pickups from a specialized winder. For pedals a few nice ones, Bogner Blue and La Grange, the latter also has a nice separate boost.
> I hope I don't need them much, but they are at my disposal. A Boss Dm-2w, TC AEx4, EHX Super Pulsar to name a few. So hope all goes well tomorrow and I sure will share once I've had a chance to blast away. So thanks Mickey and all that have contributed on this thread. I am not going in thinking instant mods as I have a 1x12 and 4x12 to play this combo through in comparison to the 70/80



Congratulations!! Refurbished units are infact a tad bit better than the ones that clear QC first time on, more so since these units are then fixed, and are given another round of QC before they clear the gate.

Hope you like the amp!!


----------



## aryasridhar

I have a few queries about the DSL100H.

So far the changes/mods I have done are as below:

1) C19 Mod (Removed) planning to add in some value that balances out a bit of darkness that I tend to hear at times. maybe a 100pf?
2) Since one of the El34 blew up and took the bias resistor to ground, I had replaced all 4 tubes with some NOS RCA bottles and also replaced both 1 ohm/2watt resistors (these were pretty off) to some NOS mil spec 1 ohm/2watt resistors (bias has been stable after a week to letting it settle down) I have set the bias at 72mV/A per side (2 tubes), about 35.5mA/V per tube.
3) Replace the speaker cable that Marshall provided with a very good Sommer cable, with Amphenol jacks.
4) Biased and reviewed every 2 days, till the bias settled down, and now the tone is amazing.
5) Although point 4 is true, i believe the valveking speakers are really dead, have no real definition, and i am finding it tough to sell just the speakers out to get 4 X Eminence Governor's for the cab, I love the Governor, have it in my Fender HRD.

I plan to do the following to the amp:- 

A) Get some silver mica caps, of different values to replace with C19 with.
B) Replace the filter caps with some Nichicon caps, I know this will not make a difference in tone, but for reliability.
C) Replace R111 for a choke (Hammond).
D) I have a 12AT7 NOS Tronal branded, are these any good to use in the PI position?
E) Lower the gain on the Ultra Channels (would appreciate any inputs on this please)

I am loving this amp with no pedals, i get so much grit and some great tones.

I am working on the schematic to make a pedal that will do the following:

1) Switch between Channel Modes (Crunch and Cleans / Ultra Gain 1 and 2)
2) Will switch Tone Shift On/Off (I find this option really useful for some genres).
3) FX Loop On/Off

Any suggestions/inputs on these would be great please!!


----------



## ken361

At7 will thin it out


----------



## BanditPanda

aryasridhar said:


> I have a few queries about the DSL100H.
> 
> So far the changes/mods I have done are as below:
> 5) Although point 4 is true, i believe the valveking speakers are really dead, have no real definition, and i am finding it tough to sell just the speakers out to get 4 X Eminence Governor's for the cab, I love the Governor, have it in my Fender HRD.



Question for you. Because you luv the Em Govenors in a Fender HoT Rod Deluxe does it necessarily follow that they will be just as luvable being driven by a Marshall 100 Watt DSL?


----------



## aryasridhar

BanditPanda said:


> Question for you. Because you luv the Em Govenors in a Fender HoT Rod Deluxe does it necessarily follow that they will be just as luvable being driven by a Marshall 100 Watt DSL?



My bad, the governor is in my HRD now, I used it with my Marshall until I got my 412 cab which has the Valveking speakers.

Governor is a clone of Celestion V30, but a better clone, with the shrills out/not ice picky.


----------



## Ronnie07

Hey gang, just re-tubed the 40C with a set of Tung-Sol power and pre's. Plate voltage came in at 470 bias at 38, is that plate voltage normal? The reason I am asking is from what I have read in this forum the norm is around 450.


----------



## ken361

its normal,, its your wall voltage


----------



## ken361

Those tubes smooth out over time EL34's


----------



## Ronnie07

ken361 said:


> Those tubes smooth out over time EL34's


Right on! Thanks for the info.


----------



## RtrWing68

Hi all. It's my first time posting on this forum. I have a dsl40c that I have put a vintage 30 in. I've had the amp for about a year now and began noticing that the clean channel's volume is very low. In order to play in a band rehearsal setting, I have to turn the clean channel up to 10 to be heard. All other channels are blaring loud. I'm thinking it is probably a tube going out. I'm sure this has been asked a million times on this thread. Does anyone have recommendations for tubes? I am more or less a hard rock/ metal player and not sure where to start with looking at pre-amp tubes. Please help! Thanks....


----------



## Samster

rlowe said:


> Here is an interesting link i found on basically two searches this link from Celestion UK. Pro's and Cunt's??



Ok thanks for this, so in that case the question moves to the speaker.
what if I modify the speaker to a bass speaker then?

I wouldn't be too ashamed to saw the upperside of the amp off convert it too a top-amp, and place a bass speaker underneath..


----------



## Bownse

There's a guy who makes pine cabinets (head/speaker) for the DSL40c. Check eBay where he sells.


----------



## whitecloud

Well the amp arrived yesterday in the bitter cold. I took precautions and let it warm up in the room then turned it on and an additional 20-30 minutes for the tubes. Everything seems OK, I did notice the checklist on the inside of the box, what was tested. Pretty much everything except output bias.
This being a B-stock or refurb. they probably thought it was alright judging on how the amp sounds. My first impressions, much of what I've read here or other reviews seem to be spot on. Yes the EQ difference between the Green and Red channel is in the negative column and the speaker needs to be broke in and or replaced. Other than that so far what I am hearing, pretty damn good out of the box. I do not see an immediate need to mod or change anything for awhile anyway. I have a 16 ohm 1x12 cab loaded with a Eminence "Private Jack" and a 4x12 to hookup and they will give me another reference help me decide what speaker I may eventually throw in this amp. So for the first day/night or round 1 I'll call it. This was the scenario. I chose my Yamaha SG500 and mainly the SD Seth Lover bridge pickup. This guitar is the closet I have to an LP. So started on the Green channel clean and worked the gain up, same for the crunch. Had volumes up to about 4 but brought it back down between 2-3. Also engaged the half power. Didn't spend a lot of time in the Red channel but can tell it has more gain than I need but did dial in some
cool lead tones. No noise, hiss, or pops. Finally put a delay pedal in the loop and that works. So it appears I have a functional as advertised amp and for $530.00 and I am very pleased. There is so much more to check out and test in the next few days. I have both a Bogner La Grange and Blue to throw in the mix so that may be interesting. I'll add additional comments the more time I have experienced with this amp


----------



## pluck

Jethro Rocker said:


> Check bias, try tubes.
> So hard to tell. Red channel Lead 1??? Lead 2 is excessive gain and can lose definition. Crunch channel gain pinned, mine would fade to clean. NOt enough gain for me boost it with an OD. It should be very bright though and have some bite.




I just checked my bias and plate voltage..460v per EL34...and the test points read roughly 45.5v! This seems to be counter to what I would've expected when I compare my amps sounds on the clean crunch , with the gain at about 11:00, as compared to a youtube video. I know that's not the greatest measuring stick, but still, there is a kind of lack of 'oomph' in the gain, unless I really slam the strings and even then, it's kinds of a dulled crunch. These are charachteristics I would've expected with lower test point readings, yet there they were at 45v approx. ...I used Webers bias calculator and 460v should be tweaked to 38v, so that's where I dialed it in to. Honestly, can't really hear a huge difference, maybe a teeny tiny bit less gainy on the classic crunch settings....Since I don't really know how long these tubes have been fired up since I got it second hand but in excellent condition, I'm going to try a whole new set and see what kind of difference, if any, that makes.


----------



## ken361

38 should be it


----------



## ken361

Im getting my amp back today they just called and my new ET65 speaker just came in also! im happy! time for break in time.


----------



## ken361

This is from my amp tech, he is highly praised in south east MI so take it as is I havent played loud yet and I did put a new speaker so I cant really comment on the bias is set at 30 hmm

The bias is at a point that runs the output tubes hard enough to get rid of crossover distortion and not any more than necessary . After 30+ years of tuning amps, this is what I have found to be best for all applications. Longest tube life, best sound, safest operation, least noise


----------



## solarburn

pluck said:


> I just checked my bias and plate voltage..460v per EL34...and the test points read roughly 45.5v! This seems to be counter to what I would've expected when I compare my amps sounds on the clean crunch , with the gain at about 11:00, as compared to a youtube video. I know that's not the greatest measuring stick, but still, there is a kind of lack of 'oomph' in the gain, unless I really slam the strings and even then, it's kinds of a dulled crunch. These are charachteristics I would've expected with lower test point readings, yet there they were at 45v approx. ...I used Webers bias calculator and 460v should be tweaked to 38v, so that's where I dialed it in to. Honestly, can't really hear a huge difference, maybe a teeny tiny bit less gainy on the classic crunch settings....Since I don't really know how long these tubes have been fired up since I got it second hand but in excellent condition, I'm going to try a whole new set and see what kind of difference, if any, that makes.



I have biased mine from 34mv to 38mv & any higher gave my ears and fingers no reason to be there. Just burning glass faster.

I found for me 36mv great. That's exactly where it was set when I got it. I had to explore just a bit though to get to know the amp and check for any drifting issues. Mine from the factory has been stable and I still have the stock 34's in it.

Now I have plenty of tubes on hand to roll both ANOS and CP. you may find rolling some either preamp or power tubes to improve performance...or not. I do recommend putting an 12AX7 ac7HG+ only in V1. Just a great tube for that V1 slot. No need for any added options when buying the tube.

http://www.dougstubes.com/preamp-tubes/12ax7-ecc83-7025/ruby-12ax7-ac7-hg.html


----------



## rlowe

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I have biased mine from 34mv to 38mv & any higher gave my ears and fingers no reason to be there. Just burning glass faster.
> 
> I found for me 36mv great. That's exactly where it was set when I got it. I had to explore just a bit though to get to know the amp and check for any drifting issues. Mine from the factory has been stable and I still have the stock 34's in it.
> 
> Now I have plenty of tubes on hand to roll both ANOS and CP. you may find rolling some either preamp or power tubes to improve performance...or not. I do recommend putting an 12AX7 ac7HG+ only in V1. Just a great tube for that V1 slot. No need for any added options when buying the tube.
> 
> http://www.dougstubes.com/preamp-tubes/12ax7-ecc83-7025/ruby-12ax7-ac7-hg.html


 I have tried Doug's preamp tubes he recommended for the amp and they do sound good, giving a fuller, richer sound. Can you say, the Ruby that you mentioned would actually improve the overall sound, and how?


----------



## rlowe

Samster said:


> Ok thanks for this, so in that case the question moves to the speaker.
> what if I modify the speaker to a bass speaker then?
> 
> I wouldn't be too ashamed to saw the upperside of the amp off convert it too a top-amp, and place a bass speaker underneath..


Actually you could do that, and it would be better than using a regular guitar speaker, as it would be designed for it's purpose.


----------



## broomy

Pedal advice required!

I run the dsl on the crunch channel, gain 3-5, vol 5-7....I use a spark booster to get the lead/overdrive tones gain 3-5, volume 7-10, bass 10 treble 5.

I now have a big muff pedal to get the David gilmour sound but couldn't seem to balence the sounds properly at band practice.... I had the spark booster after the muff in the signal chain.....using the muff on its own sounded good but didn't cut through as well as the spark booster + amp. If I used the spark booster with the muff it got very muddy and unusable. Any tips? Spark booster before muff? Total rethink on the setup? ( the setup described at the beginning of the post works a treat within the band, just want to get the big muff to sit in with that really)


----------



## BanditPanda

In research I see that the Spark is not a clean boost but more. You're really gonna have to work with your eq's on that device to get what your looking for. Try everything at noon on the Spark which I presume will give you a flat eq and try it before the Muff. That way the boost is driving the Muff and not the other way round. You can also try running the Spark thru the effects loop.
My 2 cents
BP


----------



## rlowe

broomy said:


> Pedal advice required!
> 
> I run the dsl on the crunch channel, gain 3-5, vol 5-7....I use a spark booster to get the lead/overdrive tones gain 3-5, volume 7-10, bass 10 treble 5.
> 
> I now have a big muff pedal to get the David gilmour sound but couldn't seem to balence the sounds properly at band practice.... I had the spark booster after the muff in the signal chain.....using the muff on its own sounded good but didn't cut through as well as the spark booster + amp. If I used the spark booster with the muff it got very muddy and unusable. Any tips? Spark booster before muff? Total rethink on the setup? ( the setup described at the beginning of the post works a treat within the band, just want to get the big muff to sit in with that really)


 Big muff and a lot of your older distortion pedals lack the mids needed to cut through a mix well. Maybe try a newer type overdrive or distortion pedal, or buy a 6 or 10 band graphic EQ to boost your mids.


----------



## whitecloud

Day 3 on this amp and still have a few more things to try but I have a couple of questions
1.It seems they have the crunch and clean backwards according to the manual as it says when pushed it it's clean(Plexi style) but that's not the case with my amp. Pushed in it's crunch(JCM800 style) hmm. It that a misprint?
2.I think I know the answer to this one but just want to make double sure. If you carefully replace the stock speaker does that void the warranty? Haven't taken the back off but by peeking inside looks like the connections are soldered. I know many say break the speaker in but I have a Eminence "Private Jack" in a 1x12 cab and I just triedthat. Completely blew the 70/80 away no contest. Not only was there better transfer of eq across the channels(still a bit bright on the Red side) but not as bad. But the overall tone as so much better, more clarity without being strident. There is probably an even better match as many here can attest, I was thinking WGS ET-65 or Invader. It's just easier to have the speaker in the combo cab rather than hook up that 1x12 but I want to cover my ass. Thanks in advance


----------



## MarshallDog

guitardude57 said:


> Yes we all know the 100 and the 40c have the same boards.
> 
> I knew that before I joined the forum.
> It seems there are no Techs on the 40C here.
> 
> All the mods I have seen to the earlier DSL amps made good changes to the amp.
> And no one seems to have a current model schematic...
> 
> Has anyone had any issues, and done any mods to their 40C ?
> That is all I want to know now.



PM me your email and I'll send you the schematic that I have, can't tell you if it's the latest or not but its the one for my amp.

I have done several mods to mine with no issues. Some of the mods have stayed and some were removed...


----------



## aryasridhar

whitecloud said:


> Day 3 on this amp and still have a few more things to try but I have a couple of questions
> 1.It seems they have the crunch and clean backwards according to the manual as it says when pushed it it's clean(Plexi style) but that's not the case with my amp. Pushed in it's crunch(JCM800 style) hmm. It that a misprint?
> 2.I think I know the answer to this one but just want to make double sure. If you carefully replace the stock speaker does that void the warranty? Haven't taken the back off but by peeking inside looks like the connections are soldered. I know many say break the speaker in but I have a Eminence "Private Jack" in a 1x12 cab and I just triedthat. Completely blew the 70/80 away no contest. Not only was there better transfer of eq across the channels(still a bit bright on the Red side) but not as bad. But the overall tone as so much better, more clarity without being strident. There is probably an even better match as many here can attest, I was thinking WGS ET-65 or Invader. It's just easier to have the speaker in the combo cab rather than hook up that 1x12 but I want to cover my ass. Thanks in advance



Yeah point 1 is true in my case too.

Point 2 - Don't think replacing a speaker is going to void the warranty!!


----------



## BanditPanda

whitecloud said:


> Day 3 on this amp and still have a few more things to try but I have a couple of questions
> 1.It seems they have the crunch and clean backwards according to the manual as it says when pushed it it's clean(Plexi style) but that's not the case with my amp. Pushed in it's crunch(JCM800 style) hmm. It that a misprint?
> 2.I think I know the answer to this one but just want to make double sure. If you carefully replace the stock speaker does that void the warranty? Haven't taken the back off but by peeking inside looks like the connections are soldered. I know many say break the speaker in but I have a Eminence "Private Jack" in a 1x12 cab and I just triedthat. Completely blew the 70/80 away no contest. Not only was there better transfer of eq across the channels(still a bit bright on the Red side) but not as bad. But the overall tone as so much better, more clarity without being strident. There is probably an even better match as many here can attest, I was thinking WGS ET-65 or Invader. It's just easier to have the speaker in the combo cab rather than hook up that 1x12 but I want to cover my ass. Thanks in advance



Never noticed the misprint to be honest however according to the labels on the amp : clean on top mean button out and crunch on bottom means button in. ( and no mistaking the two that's for sure )
Replacing speaker does not void warranty on amp


----------



## solarburn

rlowe said:


> I have tried Doug's preamp tubes he recommended for the amp and they do sound good, giving a fuller, richer sound. Can you say, the Ruby that you mentioned would actually improve the overall sound, and how?



Sounds like you got some good improvements already. 

The AC7HG+ in V1 adds a warmer fuller tone across the board but most importantly for me is when I use mid gain to lower saturation or roll guitar volume down I'm still left with a warmer better responding tone. Night and day? No but significant for me to say "yeah...that's better".

Keep in mind I'm using Dimarzio SD's in the bridge in both my main guitars. My Tele coil taps and the single coil tone got a bit warmed up. I found the tube warmed up my strats too and the lows are warm and rich using the neck pups. 

I only find I like the tube in V1 otherwise it gets redundant in following slots and I prefer variety and certain EQ response from my tone stack. I don't want to over run the top end too much or dull the mids from too much warmth. I want my guitars tone knob to work...not just turn to mud.


----------



## Bownse

whitecloud said:


> Haven't taken the back off but by peeking inside looks like the connections are soldered.



No soldering of the speaker wire. A cord that goes from the jack on the back of the head down to a pair of spade connectors on the speaker.


----------



## whitecloud

Bownse said:


> No soldering of the speaker wire. A cord that goes from the jack on the back of the head down to a pair of spade connectors on the speaker.


Thanks. I called the retailer I bought this amp from and the head guy in the guitar department. He wasn't sure about the warranty but did give me Marshall's phone number which I would guess the one I should use. I will give them a call tomorrow and ask them so there will be confusion. I will then post my findings.


----------



## ken361

My amp was worked on for free and I replaced the speaker no problems


----------



## G the wildman

ken361 said:


> This is from my amp tech, he is highly praised in south east MI so take it as is I havent played loud yet and I did put a new speaker so I cant really comment on the bias is set at 30 hmm
> 
> The bias is at a point that runs the output tubes hard enough to get rid of crossover distortion and not any more than necessary . After 30+ years of tuning amps, this is what I have found to be best for all applications. Longest tube life, best sound, safest operation, least noise



Just reset my bias to 36 36 it was out at 29 32. Had a rasp on green crunch. Now cured


----------



## G the wildman

Hi guys, 

Any opinions on comparison between Orange OR15 v DSL 40c

Is it worth owning both?


----------



## aryasridhar

G the wildman said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Any opinions on comparison between Orange OR15 v DSL 40c
> 
> Is it worth owning both?



I have a DSL100H and had the OR15, different beasts, I can however get the same tones off my DSL that I used to from my OR15, not the other way around though, hence sold it.


----------



## G the wildman

aryasridhar said:


> I have a DSL100H and had the OR15, different beasts, I can however get the same tones off my DSL that I used to from my OR15, not the other way around though, hence sold it.



Thank you!

Were you getting those tones on green or red. And did you need pedals?


----------



## aryasridhar

G the wildman said:


> Thank you!
> 
> Were you getting those tones on green or red. And did you need pedals?



Mostly from th red channel lead 1 position without any pedals, Orange was a dark sounding amp, if I wanted that dark had to add in a boost which I built to thicken up the tones and that did the trick. Never needed anything more than a boost though.


----------



## ken361

G the wildman said:


> Just reset my bias to 36 36 it was out at 29 32. Had a rasp on green crunch. Now cured


Haven't got to try it loud yet, should be warmer set low from what i gathered but will see. Higher causes raspy, had a Jet city and was duller with the bias colder and a little too raspy and thinner set high. I had a Engl with just a adjustment knob with bias pots so I could fine tune with the knob With it back it lost some dynamics and all the way it was clearer but a little brighter and thinner sounding so I just lowered it some.

Quoteon't screw with the bias - it is set correctly at 30 --- Marshall runs it too high - as do most other manufacturers --- They do not even know why they do it.


----------



## ken361

I though the crunch sounded better at 36 opposed to 34 when it drifted down


----------



## solarburn

ken361 said:


> Haven't got to try it loud yet, should be warmer set low from what i gathered but will see. Higher causes raspy, had a Jet city and was duller with the bias colder and a little too raspy and thinner set high. I had a Engl with just a adjustment knob with bias pots so I could fine tune with the knob With it back it lost some dynamics and all the way it was clearer but a little brighter and thinner sounding so I just lowered it some.
> 
> Quoteon't screw with the bias - it is set correctly at 30 --- Marshall runs it too high - as do most other manufacturers --- They do not even know why they do it.



Whoa 30mv is way too cold. Gave me a chill reading that.LOL


----------



## ken361

I k


solarburnDSL50 said:


> Whoa 30mv is way too cold. Gave me a chill reading that.LOL


I know it seems strange having it set low


----------



## solarburn

34mv was as low as I could before too many cons came up.

36mv works very well on mine. Experimenting finds the sweet spot but try as a Player not to be too anal. Gets in the way of playing. This is from a guy that has been anal tone wise. Just a generall FYI for those like me he he.


----------



## solarburn

G the wildman said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Any opinions on comparison between Orange OR15 v DSL 40c
> 
> Is it worth owning both?



I've had the OR15 longer than my DSL40 although I already had a DSL50. The OR15 is a cross between an Orange and a Marshall. Best of the 2.

Since I've had the DSL40 the OR15 has been sitting. I still love it but the 40 smokes it for more variations of Marshall goodness. For me the OR15 is a one trick poney. Love it yeah. Sounds great? Yes.

Maybe you can try one out and see for yourself. I have no problem admitting I can go more places sonically with my DSL. It ain't even fair comparing. I love both Orange and Marshall. My 2 fav amp companies because some of their amps do it for me. Above so many others.


----------



## dave999z

Hey all, haven't checked in with this thread for quite awhile. Just a little factoid I thought I'd share… If you plug a one-button Marshall footswitch (or the $15 knockoff that is actually the same exact thing without the silkscreening), the amp's Reverb function will be permanently off (yay!), and the single button will control the amp channel.

Just FYI:
tip + sleeve disconnected = amp on red channel
tip + sleeve connected = amp on green channel
sleeve + ring disconnected = reverb on
sleeve + ring connected = reverb off

I'm going to mod this one button footswitch I got to add red and green LEDs that show you which channel you're on (will require a battery or 9V supply). Also going to add a toggle and LED on the back to turn the reverb on and off. Will probably also put a toggle on the back to change polarity for the amp channel, in case you use it with a different amp that isn't wired the same. Just a fun project (and I do think red/green LEDs will be useful).


----------



## Len

dave999z said:


> Hey all, haven't checked in with this thread for quite awhile. Just a little factoid I thought I'd share… If you plug a one-button Marshall footswitch (or the $15 knockoff that is actually the same exact thing without the silkscreening), the amp's Reverb function will be permanently off (yay!), and the single button will control the amp channel.
> 
> Just FYI:
> tip + sleeve disconnected = amp on red channel
> tip + sleeve connected = amp on green channel
> sleeve + ring disconnected = reverb on
> sleeve + ring connected = reverb off
> 
> I'm going to mod this one button footswitch I got to add red and green LEDs that show you which channel you're on (will require a battery or 9V supply). Also going to add a toggle and LED on the back to turn the reverb on and off. Will probably also put a toggle on the back to change polarity for the amp channel, in case you use it with a different amp that isn't wired the same. Just a fun project (and I do think red/green LEDs will be useful).


I personally like the reverb on all the time, so I use a stereo cable between the amp and any simple footswitch so that I can change channels while the reverb stays on.


----------



## MarshallDog

I bought the Marshall two button footswitch so I could control both functions...then I added ge LEDs running off of a 9V battery...


----------



## Notes69

Hey Folks,

So I haven't used my classic/clean in a long time. I wanted to do some mellow jamming tonight, and I noticed that channel is fuzzy as all heck. So much so, I can't enjoy it. 

Switching back between the Classic and the Ultra gain I now notice it on both channels. 

Are we talking a tube issue here? Or is this something more sinister?

Thanks guys


----------



## MarshallDog

Notes69 said:


> Hey Folks,
> 
> So I haven't used my classic/clean in a long time. I wanted to do some mellow jamming tonight, and I noticed that channel is fuzzy as all heck. So much so, I can't enjoy it.
> 
> Switching back between the Classic and the Ultra gain I now notice it on both channels.
> 
> Are we talking a tube issue here? Or is this something more sinister?
> 
> Thanks guys



Well, would suggest start changing out the preamp tubes one by one staring at V1 first. It may be V1 seeing as this fuzz is happening on all channels. If that doesnt do it then try new power tubes. I am assuming this fuzz is not coming from the guitar input cables or pedal, correct?


----------



## Notes69

MarshallDog said:


> Well, would suggest start changing out the preamp tubes one by one staring at V1 first. It may be V1 seeing as this fuzz is happening on all channels. If that doesnt do it then try new power tubes. I am assuming this fuzz is not coming from the guitar input cables or pedal, correct?



Yea, I tried three guitars and multiple cords. All quality equipment. Zero change. 

Tubes would be the simplest fix I would think. just wasn't sure if complete annoying fuzz was a tell tail sign.
Thanks for the advice, seems like a good start. Maybe I'll try out different varieties.


----------



## whitecloud

Just a heads up. Last weekend I talked to the head of the guitar department from the Retailer I bought my amp from. My question was what I asked here regarding upgrading/replacing the stock Seventy/80 he was not sure but provided me the number here in the USA for Marshall products etc. I just got done talked to this Dude in Customer service and he flat out told me that if I removed the speaker and replaced it that would VOID THE WARRANTY. I mentioned that I read on some forums where the amp got serviced under warranty even when the speaker was replaced and he said it must of 'just slipped through". I have been running a looper pedal into the amp, on and off over time to break in the stock speaker quicker and placing couch cushions on top and in front of the amp. I did try couple more things, like a pedal and 4x12 and will add some comments on how all that went pretty soon. So lesson learned, get your intel from the horse's mouth


----------



## ken361

well mine got fixed ,this guy works from home but still a Marshall authorized tech and was fixed for free. His job is to fix the amp and doesn't care if the speaker is changed or not
BTW the amps crunch and cleans never sounded better with the new speaker and lower bias!


----------



## whitecloud

ken361 said:


> well mine got fixed ,this guy works from home but still a Marshall authorized tech and was fixed for free. His job is to fix the amp and doesn't care if the speaker is changed or not
> BTW the amps crunch and cleans never sounded better with the new speaker and lower bias!


You live in a big City compared to small College town I live in so may have less options as to where the amp might go for servicing. And he did say it must of slipped through and this could very well be the situation in many cases. I posted this reply as sort of a PSA for those that want to know where Marshall stands on this issue and not hypothetical's. I do know what this amp sounds like through other speakers/cabs and will comment on this very soon


----------



## SteelLucky

Keep stock speaker. Amp breaks, put back stock speaker and take in for warranty work. No problems. I guess replacing tubes after their 90 day warranty voids amps 3 year warranty too?


----------



## aryasridhar

SteelLucky said:


> Keep stock speaker. Amp breaks, put back stock speaker and take in for warranty work. No problems. I guess replacing tubes after their 90 day warranty voids amps 3 year warranty too?



Right, but be careful not to damage the screws crown or the threads on there, don't leave a sign that it was opened.

Simple way to do it is to use a cloth between the screw driver and the screw head/crown when opening and closing the chassis.


----------



## whitecloud

I recall reading another thread here regarding the DSL40c and it may of been the OP of this thread saying something like a washer fell and was rattling inside taking the stock speaker out. I would think no problem replacing the 12ax7's but since the eL34's require re-biasing the amp then
things could get a bit more complicated. I voiced this concerned my first post on this thread #6548. Sure in most cases taking the stock speaker out and putting in a replacement could go without a hitch and non the wiser. I just feel a bit more hesitant just getting this refurb less than a week ago.
And I have other cabs and perhaps I'll go ahead and replace the speaker after a bit more time as expired. My warranty is 1 year instead of 5.
For those in the USA that are curious, this is the number I called (800)877-6863 and I opted for Customer service.


----------



## MarshallDog

Its really all about how cool and chill hour amp tech is. Most wont bat an eye at a mod of any type as long as it didnt cause the issue or they can get busted for putting the issues thro under warranty at least this is my experience...a good tech is worth their wait in gold.


----------



## solarburn

This is a shit ass phone recording from the living room to my phone in the kitchen. L1 straight in with a humbuckered Tele then L2. Yes it's slop but ask me if I give a shart? No...I don't!

Micky? This buds for you! Might be the Fireball...I wonder how many of these amps sold because of this thread? What an asset for Marshall. You're welcome Marshall!


----------



## Bownse

Keep original speaker, Swap it in if needing warranty work.

Undoing the back is needed to swap and bias power tubes. Signs of it having been open can't void the waranty without you having that as a reason.


----------



## Far Rider

solarburnDSL50 said:


> This is a shit ass phone recording from the living room to my phone in the kitchen. L1 straight in with a humbuckered Tele then L2. Yes it's slop but ask me if I give a shart? No...I don't!
> 
> Micky? This buds for you! Might be the Fireball...I wonder how many of these amps sold because of this thread? What an asset for Marshall. You're welcome Marshall!




Way to go Burn. A nice honor for the OP.


----------



## ken361

doesnt play on mine for some reason;(


----------



## Bownse

ken361 said:


> doesnt play on mine for some reason;(


There's a loooooong dead intro. flip to youtube and jump in about 1/3 of the way.


----------



## Coronado

G the wildman said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Any opinions on comparison between Orange OR15 v DSL 40c
> 
> Is it worth owning both?



I have the Orange TT 15watt combo with the Celestion G12H 12" speaker. I'm still messing around with it - as mentioned before, it has a different sound. Been playing around with running it through my 4x12 with V30s in it to fatten up the tone a bit. I find that the 40C has a warmer, more full tone than my Orange.


----------



## ken361

Bownse said:


> There's a loooooong dead intro. flip to youtube and jump in about 1/3 of the way.


some vids wont have sound on my computer its time for a new one!


----------



## whitecloud

Coronado said:


> I have the Orange TT 15watt combo with the Celestion G12H 12" speaker. I'm still messing around with it - as mentioned before, it has a different sound. Been playing around with running it through my 4x12 with V30s in it to fatten up the tone a bit. I find that the 40C has a warmer, more full tone than my Orange.


Well I guess that's why Orange calls mine a "Dark" Terror so it must be voiced quite differently than your Tiny. My DT is no where as bright as the DSL40c


----------



## Coronado

whitecloud said:


> Well I guess that's why Orange calls mine a "Dark" Terror so it must be voiced quite differently than your Tiny. My DT is no where as bright as the DSL40c



Looking back, I kind of jumped on the TT. Wishing now I held off for the Dark T.


----------



## whitecloud

Coronado said:


> Looking back, I kind of jumped on the TT. Wishing now I held off for the Dark T.


well a few years back a retailer I bought a bunch of gear from had a Refurb for $350.00 and I pay the shipping. Got it and it looked brand new. Really wasn't amp shopping at the time but I really doubt I'll let it go as while a one trick pony it brings something to the table I don't have with any other amp or pedal


----------



## BanditPanda

ken361 said:


> some vids wont have sound on my computer its time for a new one!


No I don't think so, that is need for a new computer. Prolly just missing the needed software that the site is using


----------



## CoyotesGator

solarburnDSL50 said:


> This is a shit ass phone recording from the living room to my phone in the kitchen. L1 straight in with a humbuckered Tele then L2. Yes it's slop but ask me if I give a shart? No...I don't!
> 
> Micky? This buds for you! Might be the Fireball...I wonder how many of these amps sold because of this thread? What an asset for Marshall. You're welcome Marshall!




Sounds really good burn-brother, which guitar?


----------



## Bownse

Here it is! Poor phone pick but I wanted to do the reveal!

Not a split of the OEM box but 2 new built from scratch boxes with all new clothes. The speaker cab is 2x12 and currently houses the OEM 70/80 + the G12H-75 Creamback I was running in the combo.


----------



## ken361

closed back prb sounds huge


----------



## Len

Bownse said:


> Here it is! Poor phone pick but I wanted to do the reveal!
> 
> Not a split of the OEM box but 2 new built from scratch boxes with all new clothes. The speaker cab is 2x12 and currently houses the OEM 70/80 + the G12H-75 Creamback I was running in the combo.


Cousins


----------



## ken361

Just saw this


----------



## Bownse

Nice!

But does yours "go to 11"?






*Been pleased with the results. The closed back gives is some extra punch. Strangely the 70/80 and Creamback compliment each other. The 70/80 adds a little clarity while the Creamback mellows that harsh.*


----------



## BanditPanda

Well one thing a Marshall owner doesn't have to worry about is mosquito tone ! lol


----------



## Notes69

So, I had a bit of snow-fuzzz infecting my Classic CH. Turns out it was a bad V2.

The amp still had the original Preamp tubes, and I switched them all out. What the heck.

I ended up putting a Tung-Sol 12AX7 in V1, V4
I went with a Preferred Series 7025 in V2, V3

I don’t have the extensive experience as many here, so I just gambled and tried a mix of tubes.

I feel like I threw a dart and hit a bullseye. Really brought this amp to life. I have an itch to go with all 4 Preferred 7025, but I think I should digest the current setup for a while, and also crank it at band room levels as well. I want to be able to feel the subtle changes so when I switch I can comprehend what I am hearing. If I like the sound, that’s really all that matters, but being able to discern the differences will go a long way in the education dept.


Have many of you tried this set up, or the reverse order? I’m also thinking of switching the Power tubes to Preferred EL34. I read some reviews while doing some research and it tickled my fancy. Any thoughts on the mix in general?


Thanks all!


----------



## rlowe

ken361 said:


> Just saw this



Amptweaker has some interesting product (pedals). I will have to evaluate this one a bit further.


----------



## Dogs of Doom

Notes69 said:


> So, I had a bit of snow-fuzzz infecting my Classic CH. Turns out it was a bad V2.
> 
> The amp still had the original Preamp tubes, and I switched them all out. What the heck.
> 
> I ended up putting a Tung-Sol 12AX7 in V1, V4
> I went with a Preferred Series 7025 in V2, V3
> 
> I don’t have the extensive experience as many here, so I just gambled and tried a mix of tubes.
> 
> I feel like I threw a dart and hit a bullseye. Really brought this amp to life. I have an itch to go with all 4 Preferred 7025, but I think I should digest the current setup for a while, and also crank it at band room levels as well. I want to be able to feel the subtle changes so when I switch I can comprehend what I am hearing. If I like the sound, that’s really all that matters, but being able to discern the differences will go a long way in the education dept.
> 
> 
> Have many of you tried this set up, or the reverse order? I’m also thinking of switching the Power tubes to Preferred EL34. I read some reviews while doing some research and it tickled my fancy. Any thoughts on the mix in general?
> 
> 
> Thanks all!
> 
> View attachment 38629


7025 is one of the more robust ECC83 tubes out there. Just a caveat. W/ Tung-Sols, they have a tendency to burn up in the cathode follower position (V3), so you might avoid using one there. I've never tried the Preferred Series tubes, but I have a bunch of Philips 7025 tubes & they kick ass! I've heard pretty good reviews of the Preferred Series though...

If you can get some good deals on tubes it doesn't hurt to have a bunch to try out...


----------



## whitecloud

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions regarding some of my warranty concerns. Having this amp for about a week or so now I am settling in and getting a handle on dialing things in better for varying tones. Did try a Bugera 4x12(yeah I know) but was very surprised how nice it sounds and a/b/y against the stock speaker and a Eminence Private Jack in a external 1x12 cab. Had some pretty good success using a Bogner La Grange at varying stages of overdrive so I will recommend this pedal without hesitation, though I have enjoyed that one and the Blue for quite some time and prior to getting this amp. Have been running a looper pedal for about an hour a day into the amp besides my usual play time so the stock speaker seems to be sounding a bit better. I'll more than likely upgrade that 12" down the road and replace all the stock Bugera speakers in that 4x12. So far am really liking this amp and am tickled that I got it at such a really good price


----------



## whitecloud

Thought I would share this test clip. I was going for some old classic rock tones to see how that went. Stock speaker and very basic playing style meant not to impress or show off but put the focus on the raw amp tones. This is the scenario I used a Heil PR-30 for All tracks. Yamaha SG500 with SD Seth Lover Bridge pickup. Lead guitar track(around 1:05) used Bogner LA Grange but only the Boost side. DSL40c's Green channel/crunch mode. Mic preamp is a Warm Audio TB-12 Tone Beast into Audient i22 audio interface-Cubase all guitar tracks are raw and not processed with eq or Reverb/delay. Bass DI Tone Beast and Steve Slate SSD a couple of drum midi grooves

I could for practice purposes sweeten and polish the tracks and may do so but this is not a real song idea but a good reference for if and when I want tor record these kind of tones. I do look forward to bumping up the gain and venture into the Red Channel as well


----------



## rlowe

ken361 said:


> Just saw this



Purchased this unit $60.00 US dollars, hoping it can provide greater possibilities for shaping and tone tweaking my EQ. I have a MXR 10 band, but this should provide something different.


----------



## ken361

whitecloud said:


> Thought I would share this test clip. I was going for some old classic rock tones to see how that went. Stock speaker and very basic playing style meant not to impress or show off but put the focus on the raw amp tones. This is the scenario I used a Heil PR-30 for All tracks. Yamaha SG500 with SD Seth Lover Bridge pickup. Lead guitar track(around 1:05) used Bogner LA Grange but only the Boost side. DSL40c's Green channel/crunch mode. Mic preamp is a Warm Audio TB-12 Tone Beast into Audient i22 audio interface-Cubase all guitar tracks are raw and not processed with eq or Reverb/delay. Bass DI Tone Beast and Steve Slate SSD a couple of drum midi grooves
> 
> I could for practice purposes sweeten and polish the tracks and may do so but this is not a real song idea but a good reference for if and when I want tor record these kind of tones. I do look forward to bumping up the gain and venture into the Red Channel as well



I was using the red and blue pedals for 2 years before I bought the dsl, can you post the la grange clip with clean channel?


----------



## whitecloud

ken361 said:


> I was using the red and blue pedals for 2 years before I bought the dsl, can you post the la grange clip with clean channel?


I have some projects going on and with Christmas and all probably more likely after that or the first of the year. What tones and amount of gain
are we talking? The LA Grange starts low and goes well beyond what the Blue offers then there is that boost which can be independent or
on with the gain engaged


----------



## ken361

whitecloud said:


> I have some projects going on and with Christmas and all probably more likely after that or the first of the year. What tones and amount of gain
> are we talking? The LA Grange starts low and goes well beyond what the Blue offers then there is that boost which can be independent or
> on with the gain engaged


Light vintage plexi to a hot rodded sound


----------



## ken361

rlowe said:


> Purchased this unit $60.00 US dollars, hoping it can provide greater possibilities for shaping and tone tweaking my EQ. I have a MXR 10 band, but this should provide something different.


Run the 10 band in the loop? fattens the red up nice I bet


----------



## rlowe

ken361 said:


> Run the 10 band in the loop? fattens the red up nice I bet


No actually I run it up front at the end of chain, works best. I mostly use green channel with pedals, more natural sounding.


----------



## MarshallDog

Bownse said:


> Here it is! Poor phone pick but I wanted to do the reveal!
> 
> Not a split of the OEM box but 2 new built from scratch boxes with all new clothes. The speaker cab is 2x12 and currently houses the OEM 70/80 + the G12H-75 Creamback I was running in the combo.



Wow man great job!! Looks perfect like it came from the factory that way!!!


----------



## Bownse

There are a couple of places that don't stand up to close inspection but I think I can do something about them (they are really small and can probably be masked). Fewer imperfections than 6 months on the road would cause.

My practice room smells like pine from the new boxes.

There was some concern about the cabinet adding "woof" from flex but the front baffle is not pine (very robust) while the rear panel is held in place by a metric butt load of screws around the permiter. The result is that the closed-back design adds punch and the tight construction keeps things under control.


----------



## MarshallDog

I think a Marshall logo on the amp would set it off perfectly...


----------



## Bownse

MarshallDog said:


> I think a Marshall logo on the amp would set it off perfectly...



This is Len's it's missing the extra logo






This is mine. It has 2 logos and goes to 11.


----------



## Screamin Willie

Does that say "D5L"? As in D five L?

Willie


----------



## Len

Bownse said:


> This is Len's it's missing the extra logo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is mine. It has 2 logos and goes to 11.


Show off


----------



## Bownse

Screamin Willie said:


> Does that say "D5L"? As in D five L?
> 
> Willie



Yep. That was my doing. The faceplate guy wouldn't use the DSL because of concerns about Marshall's {tm} on the brand. By doing the D5L it slips under most people's radar while also getting around the maker's legal concerns.

I wondered at first but figure it's not as glaring an issue as Len's so, I'm cool.


----------



## Screamin Willie

Bownse said:


> Yep. That was my doing. The faceplate guy wouldn't use the DSL because of concerns about Marshall's {tm} on the brand. By doing the D5L it slips under most people's radar while also getting around the maker's legal concerns.
> 
> I wondered at first but figure it's not as glaring an issue as Len's so, I'm cool.



Cool workaround. Thanks for the reply.

Willie


----------



## G the wildman

Coronado said:


> I have the Orange TT 15watt combo with the Celestion G12H 12" speaker. I'm still messing around with it - as mentioned before, it has a different sound. Been playing around with running it through my 4x12 with V30s in it to fatten up the tone a bit. I find that the 40C has a warmer, more full tone than my Orange.


I have kept my DSL and also bought a tweed blues junior.

I tried the orange. But it was too close to the DSL and not as versatile. Thanks


----------



## rlowe

Marshall Western style DSL. EYE Candy...


----------



## BanditPanda

Get outta here !!! Who did that for ya? Really sharp.


----------



## rlowe

BanditPanda said:


> Get outta here !!! Who did that for ya? Really sharp.


Actually It came from someone else's stock. Just another look at the Dsl5c


----------



## Bownse

No standby switch?


----------



## rlowe

Bownse said:


> No standby switch?


In the Marshall Dsl5c manual it just say's, (Paraphrased) Keep volume down, turn mains switch on, wait a couple of minutes, then turn up volume. I will have to look into the circuit design...is different.


----------



## ken361

Hows the EP boost with these amps? is it boomy at all? looking to add some gain to the crunch and red


----------



## whitecloud

a little update. Yesterday I thought i would reamp some tracks I recorded not too long ago and felt it was a good time to a/b the stock seventy/80 vs the Eminence "Private Jack" I have in a 1x12 cab. Double tracked guitars one more crunch and the other with a bit more gain. The DI tracks in
Cubase were ones I had a amp sim plugin so just sent the DI(which was duplicated) out to the Little Labs RedEye reamp box. Those of course were dry without amp sim. Set the 40c to a crunch setting on the Green channel. First pass stock, 2nd out to Private Jack. I did have the 1x12 right next to the amp for the quick connect/disconnect. Then the Red channel/Ld 1 on the next DI track so same deal. Hands down the Private Jack killed the 70/80, but I did notice while I liked the PJ a lot better there was something cool about the stock speaker breakup that was missing in the Eminence.
However I feel that no matter what the 70/80 is just not a quality speaker so I made a decision. I am going to brave replacing the stock speaker, just do it carefully and should not affect warranty. So after all my research and listening to clips I pulled the trigger and ordered a WSG Retro 30. I plan on breaking it in as quick as possible and maybe run an iPod into it. So one more a/b after that and I'll choose between the Retro 30 and the PJ
which one goes in the combo. I have a 4x12 project, replacing speakers and a friend is sending me his 70/80 taken out of this Marshall MX112 cab along with another Eminence so with what I am doing will have 4 speakers to work with for experimentation. Should be fun. If anyone has used a Retro 30 please comments and I'll do the same after it is installed and broken in


----------



## rlowe

ken361 said:


> Hows the EP boost with these amps? is it boomy at all? looking to add some gain to the crunch and red


I am not certain if you are referring to the dsl5c or something else? EP boost's? I use an Archer, and Rothwell od. Tis not boomy, or as robust as the dsl40c with, or without pedals. I mainly use this amp for quite night practice using headphones.


----------



## ken361

I been hankering for some humbuckers again bad since I been playing my USA strat well after seeing this video I decided to try one at the store. It sounded really good on the red channel! I got a good deal on it so now im doing a set up at all. Before i wouldnt even consider a bolt on EPI but this should hold me down for a while till I get some funds in. I did try it next to Gibson classic and that had a bit more high end due to the maple cap. See how it performs this weekend. Holding off on the boost for now.


----------



## rlowe

ken361 said:


> I been hankering for some humbuckers again bad since I been playing my USA strat well after seeing this video I decided to try one at the store. It sounded really good on the red channel! I got a good deal on it so now im doing a set up at all. Before i wouldnt even consider a bolt on EPI but this should hold me down for a while till I get some funds in. I did try it next to Gibson classic and that had a bit more high end due to the maple cap. See how it performs this weekend. Holding off on the boost for now.


 Be forewarned, I don't know why John Seg. admires these guitars, maybe he's selling them. I have owned the special II and although they do have sound, the pickups are terrible when using common chords with distortion, and the frets could use a little work. I thought it sounded decent with no distortion, maybe jazz but compared to my gibby's no comp. I am not trying to discourage you, and John seems like an ok guy, maybe new pickups, and some fretwork would improve this guitar. Good luck on funding your new Humbucker guitar!


----------



## rlowe

rlowe said:


> Be forewarned, I don't know why John Seg. admires these guitars, maybe he's selling them. I have owned the special II and although they do have sound, the pickups are terrible when using common chords with distortion, and the frets could use a little work. I thought it sounded decent with no distortion, maybe jazz but compared to my gibby's no comp. I am not trying to discourage you, and John seems like an ok guy, maybe new pickups, and some fretwork would improve this guitar. Good luck on funding your new Humbucker guitar!


 Here's the catch: If your a beginner and go into, say his, or any guitar store that Epi would seem to sound good and affordable. The owner knows as you improve over time you will see the difference that something is missing. Say a year or two later you come back to that same store and shell out more for the Gibson. Win, Win situation for the guitar store but that is their business, and not everyone has $1500-$3000.00 to shell out especially as a beginner. I see he is using a power break on top of that Marshall amp. Yes, good beginner's guitar.


----------



## ken361

It did sound good at the store and I owned a few gibbys, the light weight might make it sound not as big loud though. About almost done setting it up so will see


----------



## ken361

rlowe said:


> Here's the catch: If your a beginner and go into, say his, or any guitar store that Epi would seem to sound good and affordable. The owner knows as you improve over time you will see the difference that something is missing. Say a year or two later you come back to that same store and shell out more for the Gibson. Win, Win situation for the guitar store but that is their business, and not everyone has $1500-$3000.00 to shell out especially as a beginner


have 9 years on me


----------



## Bownse

> If your a beginner and go into, say his, or any guitar store that Epi would seem to sound good and affordable. The owner knows as you improve over time you will see the difference that something is missing. Say a year or two later you come back to that same store and shell out more for the Gibson. Win, Win situation for the guitar store but that is their business, and not everyone has $1500-$3000.00 to shell out especially as a beginner.



That's exactly what I did...


----------



## rlowe

ken361 said:


> have 9 years on me


Intonate, tweak it out good and enjoy! Here is a link to another guitar that will not bust the bank: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ENSEBCH


----------



## whitecloud

ken361 said:


> I been hankering for some humbuckers again bad since I been playing my USA strat well after seeing this video I decided to try one at the store. It sounded really good on the red channel! I got a good deal on it so now im doing a set up at all. Before i wouldnt even consider a bolt on EPI but this should hold me down for a while till I get some funds in. I did try it next to Gibson classic and that had a bit more high end due to the maple cap. See how it performs this weekend. Holding off on the boost for now.



If you could go about 70 bucks more you could fetch an Agile perhaps a AL-1900. Has to be a better guitar than the Epi. Base price $229-239.95 shipping just under 20 bucks. I bought a AL2000 Goldtop with P90's some years back. It is a set neck though and I paid $225.00+ shipping. Best bargain ever upgraded the stock P90's and lookout. Go to Rondo's site and poke around. If you are not familiar with Agile guitars, just Google.


----------



## ken361

whitecloud said:


> If you could go about 70 bucks more you could fetch an Agile perhaps a AL-1900. Has to be a better guitar than the Epi. Base price $229-239.95 shipping just under 20 bucks. I bought a AL2000 Goldtop with P90's some years back. It is a set neck though and I paid $225.00+ shipping. Best bargain ever upgraded the stock P90's and lookout. Go to Rondo's site and poke around. If you are not familiar with Agile guitars, just Google.


Those are nice guitars almost bought one years ago, there 3100 are nice I believe that have the maple cap


----------



## ken361

Guitar sounded really good little surprised red 1 nice and thick a tad bassy but not bad at all,Hells Bells! No buzzing,stays in tune good.Have to say China has good quality control. I bet a better humbucker will be just right,not harsh at all for ceramic. I owned a Traditional Les Paul a few months ago.The ET 65 speaker is working well! Crunch Highway to Hell sounds good too.


----------



## whitecloud

ken361 said:


> Guitar sounded really good little surprised red 1 nice and thick a tad bassy but not bad at all,Hells Bells! No buzzing,stays in tune good.Have to say China has good quality control. I bet a better humbucker will be just right,not harsh at all for ceramic. I owned a Traditional Les Paul a few months ago.The ET 65 speaker is working well! Crunch Highway to Hell sounds good too.


You know I didn't read your post close enough to realize you already bought this guitar or I wouldn't have recommended the Agile for just a bit more. No doubt the 3100 series is quite a jump up. That said glad the Epi is working for you and I bet there are some pups that would be appropriate without being overkill if you upgrade. I recommended the ET-65 to a friend that has a Class 5 and it was on of my candidates for the DSL40c but I ended up ordering a WSG Retro 30 so will have to go through the break in process when it lands.


----------



## ken361

whitecloud said:


> You know I didn't read your post close enough to realize you already bought this guitar or I wouldn't have recommended the Agile for just a bit more. No doubt the 3100 series is quite a jump up. That said glad the Epi is working for you and I bet there are some pups that would be appropriate without being overkill if you upgrade. I recommended the ET-65 to a friend that has a Class 5 and it was on of my candidates for the DSL40c but I ended up ordering a WSG Retro 30 so will have to go through the break in process when it lands.


Let us know how the speaker works out,guy on another board GP said it took for ever to breaking in the WGS speakers. While WGS says 10 to 20 hrs


----------



## whitecloud

I read how some put the amp face down on the floor while running a looper and thought how would that work with a input on the front but got to thinking of using the return of the FX loop. So I could run a looper and or an iPod unless there is something I am not getting. so will try running
something back into the return of the amp today for a brief test. If it's a go, that's what I'll do when I receive the Retro 30


----------



## Bownse

You can do a white or pink noise generator on the speaker to speed up break in, but with a tube amp, I'd be more inclined to leave the amp oriented in an upright position for less stress on the tubes.

JBL has an audio track for burning in their speakers. Put it onto a player of some kind and leave it in a loop for their 40-hour recommended time. Last I looked it was something like 72 hours for a set of Bowers & Wilkens cans. Their instructions call for medium volume but that would be pretty loud in 40watt mode for 40 hours unless you had a sound proof room. I would never run it above about 30% volume for breaking in and extend the duration based on how much lower you run the volume (30% @ 40watts would mean -20% of recommended volume so increase recommended time by 20% or 40+(40*0.2)=48 hours). Their sample includes a broad selection of frequencies so you aren't just hitting one range based on your music preference.

Here's one person's opinion about break in.


----------



## ken361

I don't know if its the lower bias or the WGS ET65 over the WGS British Lead speaker the Lead 2 does a very good Metallica tone better now with my cheaper Epiphone Les Paul special then my old Gibby Trad pro II with the British Leads and bias at 35 or so. Its still fat like before maybe better sounding mids and treble from the new speaker,sounds huge in the basement's condo. I know at my house wont be as full because the basements not finished with carpet and a drop ceiling. The crunch is a bit thick though but loving the red now more then before. Have to try to record loud sometime soon.


----------



## rlowe

A few days ago I hooked up a new pair of Polk audio loudspeaker towers just purchased, and Polk subwoofer with stereo receiver. Playing it along with the Dsl40c and of course a few of my favorite tracks sounds really sweet. Careful not to turn that subwoofer up too loud as it can vibrate the house very well. I don't know as far about breaking these speakers in, but I read somewhere that most drivers are pretty much broken in at testing with the manufacturer. They sure sound nice with the amp though.


----------



## whitecloud

Tha


Bownse said:


> You can do a white or pink noise generator on the speaker to speed up break in, but with a tube amp, I'd be more inclined to leave the amp oriented in an upright position for less stress on the tubes.
> 
> JBL has an audio track for burning in their speakers. Put it onto a player of some kind and leave it in a loop for their 40-hour recommended time. Last I looked it was something like 72 hours for a set of Bowers & Wilkens cans. Their instructions call for medium volume but that would be pretty loud in 40watt mode for 40 hours unless you had a sound proof room. I would never run it above about 30% volume for breaking in and extend the duration based on how much lower you run the volume (30% @ 40watts would mean -20% of recommended volume so increase recommended time by 20% or 40+(40*0.2)=48 hours). Their sample includes a broad selection of frequencies so you aren't just hitting one range based on your music preference.
> 
> Here's one person's opinion about break in.


Thanks for your comments and tips. I just had a great idea that will make this process more safe for the DSL40c and for my sanity. I can put the WSG Retro 30 in my 1x12 cab and play any of my amps through it. I downloaded and put the audio mp3 file you suggested in my iPod and briefly played my VHT through the 1x12 face down. I can live with slight bleed. Also will run a looper into it as well playing the riffs I normally do. Another plus since it wouldn't be in the DSL right away can try it with it as an extension cab also my Orange Dark Terror and VHT. This way I don't have to wait to hear it with the DSL as hear the difference as it breaks in and hearing it with my other amps another plus before I end it sticking it in combo where I hope I am satisfied enough to want it to stay there.


----------



## Michaeld13

Anxiously waiting for the vintage style Dsl40 from Musicians Friend- been on back order for a while. Will run it with a 2x12 extension cabinet - it's the 50watt Vox Nighttrain cab, so it has 2 G12h anniversaries in it. Been waiting over a month and still on back order...


----------



## Michaeld13

Oh, and I'm in the "read all the posts" club- enjoyed it over a month or so....


----------



## Gustavo Millan

Sorry if this was already asked ...
Im about to replace mine with a celestion creamback. My question is.. the new GM12-65 has 8 mounting slots while the stock have 4. Do i need to modify in any way the amp? Or should i just use 4 of the 8 holes of my new speaker? Thanks a lot


----------



## ken361

no just use the 4


----------



## David Neely

I just recently picked up a dsl40 and am planning on swapping the speaker to a creamback and was wondering if anyone had tried or know anything about using the neodymium creamback in the dsl40. Will it give similar results as the ceramic magnet version? TIA.


----------



## ken361

might be a version on you tube


----------



## Msharky67

I am waiting too for one. The suspense is killing me. I am waiting for MLK Day for some coupons. I had a broken one for a couple days and even though it was tough to see the damage it sounded sick. I know its good. Hang in there it will be worth the wait.



Michaeld13 said:


> Anxiously waiting for the vintage style Dsl40 from Musicians Friend- been on back order for a while. Will run it with a 2x12 extension cabinet - it's the 50watt Vox Nighttrain cab, so it has 2 G12h anniversaries in it. Been waiting over a month and still on back order...


----------



## BanditPanda

David Neely said:


> I just recently picked up a dsl40 and am planning on swapping the speaker to a creamback and was wondering if anyone had tried or know anything about using the neodymium creamback in the dsl40. Will it give similar results as the ceramic magnet version? TIA.



*Magnet Type*
The three different types of materials used in speaker magnets are Alnico, Ceramic (Ferrite) and Neodymium. Each material has a different effect on the tonal characteristics of the speaker.

Alnico, the original magnet material used in speakers, produces a classic tone. Alnico magnets tend to be a bit more expensive due to their cobalt content. These speakers sound warmer and sweeter at lower volumes and many musicians feel they react more quickly to the player's touch.

Ceramic magnets were developed as an inexpensive alternative to Alnico. These speakers have a few advantages: they do not cost as much, are more versatile and create a wide range of tones. Both the Vintage and MOD™ ceramic speakers tend to weigh more, generally handle more power and sound better at high volumes. 

Neodymium is the newest material being used for speaker magnets. Price-wise they fall between Alnico and ceramic magnet speakers. These speakers respond to a player's touch much like Alnicos and they have a well balanced frequency response. The major advantages of these magnets are weight and efficiency. A neodymium speaker weighs about 50% less than other speakers without giving up power or tone. Neodymium speakers are especially good in large, heavy amplifiers or amplifiers that have more than two speakers.


----------



## Michaeld13

Thanks Sharky. I have a Vox night train that I really like that I've been using for a while. So I'm planning on trying a dry/wet setup with an aby box. But yes c'mon already. Long back order wait. Just thought the vintage looked so cool it would be worth waiting for...


----------



## David Neely

BanditPanda said:


> *Magnet Type*
> The three different types of materials used in speaker magnets are Alnico, Ceramic (Ferrite) and Neodymium. Each material has a different effect on the tonal characteristics of the speaker.
> 
> Alnico, the original magnet material used in speakers, produces a classic tone. Alnico magnets tend to be a bit more expensive due to their cobalt content. These speakers sound warmer and sweeter at lower volumes and many musicians feel they react more quickly to the player's touch.
> 
> Ceramic magnets were developed as an inexpensive alternative to Alnico. These speakers have a few advantages: they do not cost as much, are more versatile and create a wide range of tones. Both the Vintage and MOD™ ceramic speakers tend to weigh more, generally handle more power and sound better at high volumes.
> 
> Neodymium is the newest material being used for speaker magnets. Price-wise they fall between Alnico and ceramic magnet speakers. These speakers respond to a player's touch much like Alnicos and they have a well balanced frequency response. The major advantages of these magnets are weight and efficiency. A neodymium speaker weighs about 50% less than other speakers without giving up power or tone. Neodymium speakers are especially good in large, heavy amplifiers or amplifiers that have more than two speakers.



Thanks! That actually helps a lot. I decided to go ahead and pull the trigger and give one a shot. I'll post my thoughts on it when I get it installed and test it out.


----------



## Micky

Michaeld13 said:


> Oh, and I'm in the "read all the posts" club- enjoyed it over a month or so....


It's a lot of reading, and sometimes difficult to wade thru the needless stuff, but it is well worth it.
A lot of people have poured their lives into this amp and thread, and the reference material here alone is worth it's weight in gold.


----------



## Michaeld13

Indeed Micky! I was at a job site today near my local guitar center so figured I'd pop in and see if they had a 40C- and they did! (also a 100 on the floor)- I had never played through one only heard someone else another time I was in there and I thought it sounded great... so I picked up a medium grade Les Paul and sat on the floor- wow there are a lot of sounds in there. I know others have said that, but it's true. My first impressions: man this thing has a lot of BITE, BALLS and CRUNCH! Very full sounding. Easily heard the reverb. Nothing like my Night Train. Did not think it was overly "trebley"- bright yes, but nothing that bothered me. I actually think it's going to pair awesome with my fuzz face that is a pretty dark fuzz- which makes sense since it was Marshalls they were designed to work with... So I guess I keep waiting for M.Friend to get the retro version in, but I'm glad I got 15 minutes with it.


----------



## guitardude57

MarshallDog said:


> You are correct in a lower cap being less brite and a higher cap being more brite. I did try a 5751 in V1 and it made very little difference that I could tell in all channels. Obviously, turning the gain down made a big difference compared to the 5751 in V1. Congrats on finally getting the amp...




Backwards...the larger the cap value, the more low end, and the smaller the cap value, the less low end, which equates to more high end...


----------



## MarshallDog

guitardude57 said:


> Backwards...the larger the cap value, the more low end, and the smaller the cap value, the less low end, which equates to more high end...



My experience for the brite cap was just the opposite, small value cap made it less brite and a larger value cap made it more brite. Not sure how it did it by either reducing the high freq's or adding more low freg's but thats what happened.


----------



## guitardude57

MarshallDog said:


> My experience for the brite cap was just the opposite, small value cap made it less brite and a larger value cap made it more brite. Not sure how it did it by either reducing the high freq's or adding more low freg's but thats what happened.



Depending where the cap is in the circuit, as a bypass to the plate, will have a different effect as a filter. But a bright cap on a pot, or a cathode bypass cap, the value being higher allows more low end to "bypass the resistor" or pot...unaffected by what it is bypassing. On a pot, when turned to max, the cap is fully bypassed, as all frequencies pass through the pot. Of course you are also dealing with gain structure changes as well...on Cathode caps...


----------



## guitardude57

Here are some neat tricks with caps and resistors etc.... Taken from Trinity's site. Some good explanations;

1. Cathode Resistors: Larger values = less gain, Smaller values = more gain.

2. Cathode Bypass Caps: Larger values (22uf to 330uf) = More gain and bass. To tame oscillation or motor boating, try smaller (1uf, 0.1uf, 500pf) = less gain and bass.

3. Resistors between gain stages: Resistors in series with the audio path increase gain as the value gets lower. Resistors going to ground in the audio path increase gain as the values increase.

4. Put a 500pf cap across the resistor connecting the gain stages. This is a "bright cap" and is what makes the bright channel on many Marshalls and Fenders. If it's too bright, loose it, change to a higher value, or put a resistor in series with it (try 47k-100k.)

5. The Tone Stack: The first cap (e.g. 470pf) controls treble and bass. Go down (250pf or lower) for less mids (more highs and lows) Likewise, the other 2 caps (0.022uf) can be changed. Try .1 for the bass and 0.047 for the mid. Or things in between (0.033) The resistor between them (33k) can be changed up or down for a different mid response. Also try a 50k pot (instead of the usual 25k) for the mids for more range of tone; when you turn this down the mids GO AWAY. Much different than a stock Marshall.

6. Master Volume: Comes after the treble control and feeds the phase inverter and the power section. Try a 100k-220k resistor in series, right after the MV pot. It will make the lows roll off less at low volumes, giving you a fatter tone.

7. "Smoothie" caps: There's times when the amp is bright, harsh, or "buzzy"-sounding and you'd just like to smooth it out or kill the "buzziness". There are a couple places you can add a "smoothie" cap to kill unwanted highs. One place is across the plates of the phase inverter. Marshall uses a 47pf cap here to prevent oscillation, try 120-200pf to smooth out buzziness. VOX uses a cap here with a pot for the "cut" control. Another spot is between the plate and grid of the first gain stage, try 10-20pf. Sovtek Midget 50 uses 18pf here.

8. Caps: What's best? Orange Drops, Mallorys, or the expensive "paper-in-oil" kind? What's the difference?
Basically there are 2 kinds of caps you'll use for coupling/tone caps: Polypropylene (Orange Drop 715P, Xicon, etc.) and Polyester (Mallory 150, Cornell-Dublier, etc.)
Polypropylene tends to be brighter, can be harsh-sounding. Great for Fender-type amps.
Polyester tends to be darker/smoother-sounding. Mallory 150s were used in vintage Marshalls and I like 'em a lot
The differences are fairly subtle. Paper-in-oil caps are just expensive. They don't make much/any difference in guitar amps. Save your money. For small (picofarad-size) caps most agree that Silver Mica caps are the way to go over ceramic disc caps; smoother, less harsh, although there are places where a ceramic cap can work just fine (tremolos, power sections.)


----------



## MarshallDog

guitardude57 said:


> Backwards...the larger the cap value, the more low end, and the smaller the cap value, the less low end, which equates to more high end...



This was caps C4 and C19 if I remember correct...


----------



## MarshallDog

guitardude57 said:


> Here are some neat tricks with caps and resistors etc.... Taken from Trinity's site. Some good explanations;
> 
> 1. Cathode Resistors: Larger values = less gain, Smaller values = more gain.
> 
> 2. Cathode Bypass Caps: Larger values (22uf to 330uf) = More gain and bass. To tame oscillation or motor boating, try smaller (1uf, 0.1uf, 500pf) = less gain and bass.
> 
> 3. Resistors between gain stages: Resistors in series with the audio path increase gain as the value gets lower. Resistors going to ground in the audio path increase gain as the values increase.
> 
> 4. Put a 500pf cap across the resistor connecting the gain stages. This is a "bright cap" and is what makes the bright channel on many Marshalls and Fenders. If it's too bright, loose it, change to a higher value, or put a resistor in series with it (try 47k-100k.)
> 
> 5. The Tone Stack: The first cap (e.g. 470pf) controls treble and bass. Go down (250pf or lower) for less mids (more highs and lows) Likewise, the other 2 caps (0.022uf) can be changed. Try .1 for the bass and 0.047 for the mid. Or things in between (0.033) The resistor between them (33k) can be changed up or down for a different mid response. Also try a 50k pot (instead of the usual 25k) for the mids for more range of tone; when you turn this down the mids GO AWAY. Much different than a stock Marshall.
> 
> 6. Master Volume: Comes after the treble control and feeds the phase inverter and the power section. Try a 100k-220k resistor in series, right after the MV pot. It will make the lows roll off less at low volumes, giving you a fatter tone.
> 
> 7. "Smoothie" caps: There's times when the amp is bright, harsh, or "buzzy"-sounding and you'd just like to smooth it out or kill the "buzziness". There are a couple places you can add a "smoothie" cap to kill unwanted highs. One place is across the plates of the phase inverter. Marshall uses a 47pf cap here to prevent oscillation, try 120-200pf to smooth out buzziness. VOX uses a cap here with a pot for the "cut" control. Another spot is between the plate and grid of the first gain stage, try 10-20pf. Sovtek Midget 50 uses 18pf here.
> 
> 8. Caps: What's best? Orange Drops, Mallorys, or the expensive "paper-in-oil" kind? What's the difference?
> Basically there are 2 kinds of caps you'll use for coupling/tone caps: Polypropylene (Orange Drop 715P, Xicon, etc.) and Polyester (Mallory 150, Cornell-Dublier, etc.)
> Polypropylene tends to be brighter, can be harsh-sounding. Great for Fender-type amps.
> Polyester tends to be darker/smoother-sounding. Mallory 150s were used in vintage Marshalls and I like 'em a lot
> The differences are fairly subtle. Paper-in-oil caps are just expensive. They don't make much/any difference in guitar amps. Save your money. For small (picofarad-size) caps most agree that Silver Mica caps are the way to go over ceramic disc caps; smoother, less harsh, although there are places where a ceramic cap can work just fine (tremolos, power sections.)



Great info...I copied and pasted it into a MS Word doc and printed it and added it to my file for reference when needed...


----------



## guitardude57

Yes, they are both Bright caps. I left C4 alone, and lifted C19.
Customer's amp...
I put in a 50 watt Mag Comp Output Tranny and their 3 Hy Choke.
Also placed a 120pF snubber on the PI, to get rid of the hash and fizz.
That is all this amp needs.


----------



## guitardude57

MarshallDog said:


> Great info...I copied and pasted it into a MS Word doc and printed it and added it to my file for reference when needed...


Yes, this is the kind of thing that is real helpful to all. Gives a little sense on values, and one can try on any amp... to tailor a reasonable fix.


----------



## MarshallDog

guitardude57 said:


> Yes, they are both Bright caps. I left C4 alone, and lifted C19.
> Customer's amp...
> I put in a 50 watt Mag Comp Output Tranny and their 3 Hy Choke.
> Also placed a 120pF snubber on the PI, to get rid of the hash and fizz.
> That is all this amp needs.



I did the Classic Tone choke and have thought about the classic Tone OT. Can you tell me nore about the 120 pF snubber on the PI and what it does and how it affects tone...you have my attention and curiosity now??!!


----------



## guitardude57

MarshallDog said:


> I did the Classic Tone choke and have thought about the classic Tone OT. Can you tell me nore about the 120 pF snubber on the PI and what it does and how it affects tone...you have my attention and curiosity now??!!


Many of the older Marshall amps have a 47pF snubber across the PI Plate resistors. This is really there to stop parasitic oscillation. So on these DSL 40C amps, anywhere from a 47pF to a 200pF or so... silver Mica cap across pin 1 and pin 6 on V4 (phase Inverter) 47pF is for above hearing range type oscillation, and as you go up in value, will result in coming down more into the fizz and buzz range we can hear. Tried 180pF and 120pF, and the 120 did the job. No fizz. And did not hurt the high end in the tone.

The amp now sounds great on clean/crunch and the Lead 1 and 2.

Played through an open back cab with a G12-t75.

Crunch set at Gain 6 Vol 8
Lead set at Gain 6 Vol 6
Treb 6
Mid 5
Bass 4.5
Pres 4
Reson 4

All positions of switches clear, define and smooth.

New JJ' in all tube spots EL34L powers.
452V to the plates, and bias set to 39mA.

So with New OT and Choke, C19 cut, and the snubber on the PI...is all it took to make this amp wunnerful!


----------



## ken361

Heres my new cheap axe some metal riffage at bedroom levels. It gets a little thick on the power chords but still holds up really loud all stock guitar! 8 hrs on the speaker.


----------



## MarshallDog

guitardude57 said:


> Many of the older Marshall amps have a 47pF snubber across the PI Plate resistors. This is really there to stop parasitic oscillation. So on these DSL 40C amps, anywhere from a 47pF to a 200pF or so... silver Mica cap across pin 1 and pin 6 on V4 (phase Inverter) 47pF is for above hearing range type oscillation, and as you go up in value, will result in coming down more into the fizz and buzz range we can hear. Tried 180pF and 120pF, and the 120 did the job. No fizz. And did not hurt the high end in the tone.
> 
> The amp now sounds great on clean/crunch and the Lead 1 and 2.
> 
> Played through an open back cab with a G12-t75.
> 
> Crunch set at Gain 6 Vol 8
> Lead set at Gain 6 Vol 6
> Treb 6
> Mid 5
> Bass 4.5
> Pres 4
> Reson 4
> 
> All positions of switches clear, define and smooth.
> 
> New JJ' in all tube spots EL34L powers.
> 452V to the plates, and bias set to 39mA.
> 
> So with New OT and Choke, C19 cut, and the snubber on the PI...is all it took to make this amp wunnerful!



Great info...

Where did you actually place the cap? Did you solder it in across the actual socket pins on the PCB or did you place it somewhere else in the circuit? Would a ceramic cap work just as well?? Thanks!


----------



## guitardude57

Soldered directly on the pins of the sockets, Pin 1 across to Pin 6 on V4, on the board.
I only use Silver Mica caps for this type application.
I seldom use ceramics except for on Power Supply stuff, snubs on Recto Diodes...etc.


----------



## MarshallDog

guitardude57 said:


> Soldered directly on the pins of the sockets, Pin 1 across to Pin 6 on V4, on the board.
> I only use Silver Mica caps for this type application.
> I seldom use ceramics except for on Power Supply stuff, snubs on Recto Diodes...etc.



Hopefully one last question, what voltage silver mica 120 pf cap did you use??


----------



## whitecloud

After several days of either playing, running a looper pedal or an iPod with that JLab Audio burn in file in my new WSG Retro 30(I temporarily installed in a 1x12 cab). I put it in the DSL40c. I must admit taking precautions using a lens wipe cloth on the end of the Phillips screwdriver as to not show any wear on the screw heads on the back of the combo or the 4 attaching the stock speaker. Results, very pleased. I probably have around 10 hours or so on the WSG and it may break in some more but I am really digging what I am hearing. Even though this speaker is one if not the brightest they make, still not shrill or harsh like the seventy/80. I bet a Vintage 30 would sound great as well and I may try that as I plan on getting a Orange Cab to match my Dark Terror and did try the Retro 30 in that 1x12 with that amp with great results


----------



## whitecloud

ken361 said:


> Heres my new cheap axe some metal riffage at bedroom levels. It gets a little thick on the power chords but still holds up really loud all stock guitar! 8 hrs on the speaker.



I bet if you bought some aftermarket pickups for your Epi that would help quite a bit that is if you feel the guitar is worth investing any more cash on. I have bought quite a few pickups from BG Pups and would also recommend a SD Seth Lover for classic tones, BG Hellabucker for that and beyond


----------



## guitardude57

MarshallDog said:


> Hopefully one last question, what voltage silver mica 120 pf cap did you use??


All the Silver Mica caps I get, are 500V.


----------



## Bownse

whitecloud said:


> I bet if you bought some aftermarket pickups for your Epi that would help quite a bit that is if you feel the guitar is worth investing any more cash on. I have bought quite a few pickups from BG Pups and would also recommend a SD Seth Lover for classic tones, BG Hellabucker for that and beyond




Sure continue to like my Wolftone Dr. Vintage PUs.


----------



## ken361

whitecloud said:


> I bet if you bought some aftermarket pickups for your Epi that would help quite a bit that is if you feel the guitar is worth investing any more cash on. I have bought quite a few pickups from BG Pups and would also recommend a SD Seth Lover for classic tones, BG Hellabucker for that and beyond


I probably will I was surprised how good it sounds on the red channel does that Hell bells tones 80's stuff with some tweeking the pole pieces on the pickups. I had gibsons before this and this guitar matches up Try one!. Since it all mahagony its a warmer sounding some then with a maple cap. Neck pup prb sounds better and clearer then the 57's one my old Gibson I had resonate and lots of sustain,lower bias and the speaker rocks

Also no high frets or buzzes and the string binding in the nut like my Gibsons did,quite happy


----------



## ken361

This guys is a big marshall lover and has some great tones, he likes the mids maxed on his amps. This what made me want to check one out


----------



## Michaeld13

I decided to poke around on this forum and saw this thread. It seems quite a bit different in the mods performed here in the 40c vs in the one below- but both DSL threads. I'm just wondering if this thread is strictly for the older generation of DSLs. I don't think I ever saw it referenced in this massive discussion...
http://www.marshallforum.com/threads/the-dsl-joey-mod-thread.13424/


----------



## Micky

Michaeld13 said:


> I decided to poke around on this forum and saw this thread. It seems quite a bit different in the mods performed here in the 40c vs in the one below- but both DSL threads. I'm just wondering if this thread is strictly for the older generation of DSLs. I don't think I ever saw it referenced in this massive discussion...
> http://www.marshallforum.com/threads/the-dsl-joey-mod-thread.13424/


Yes, the Joey mods are strictly for the older JCM2000 models. The mods described in this thread are generally the same, except for the newer model. The same principals apply.

And yeah, this thread is massive for sure. There is a lot of great information here, but you need to sort out the general stuff from that in order to get the highlights.

It may help if you just ask your questions outright, someone is sure to reference it here. There are a number of things that can transform your DSL40 into a fire-breathing dragon, or even mellow it out if you want. It is a pretty versatile amp.


----------



## solarburn

I'm out of the penalty box. Neetoh.

So who's doing what with this amp lately?

Any klips?


----------



## ken361

trying to get more break in time only on the weekends so far


----------



## solarburn

Jus checked out your clip bud. I likee! Sounds great


----------



## solarburn

A little Joe jangle. Starts at 45secs in. Sorry for the banter.


----------



## ken361

solarburnDSL50 said:


> A little Joe jangle. Starts at 45secs in. Sorry for the banter.



boosting at all sounds good? lead 2?


----------



## solarburn

If I remember right...big if...it's the crunch channel with a bit of Marvel Drive.


----------



## rlowe

solarburnDSL50 said:


> A little Joe jangle. Starts at 45secs in. Sorry for the banter.



Football playoff's mingled with a bit of guitar, sounds a bit stringy like a Stratocaster guitar.


----------



## solarburn

rlowe said:


> Football playoff's mingled with a bit of guitar, sounds a bit stringy like a Stratocaster guitar.



I thought so too. It's the shift in mid emphasis from the crunch channel mixed with the pedal. Thinner bottom. Different tone to my other channels using same guitar/pedal.


----------



## Michaeld13

Thanks Micky because that thread is way over my head. I guess when the thing finally shows up I'll check the bias when I have a chance and then decide after some good time with it wether I need to make any changes. You would think the folks at Marshall would know best but I guess there's a lot of folks who think otherwise. Can't be everything to everyone!


----------



## solarburn

Michaeld13 said:


> Thanks Micky because that thread is way over my head. I guess when the thing finally shows up I'll check the bias when I have a chance and then decide after some good time with it wether I need to make any changes. You would think the folks at Marshall would know best but I guess there's a lot of folks who think otherwise. Can't be everything to everyone!



Congratz on getting one.

Mine is still stock except for a couple preamp tube changes.

Having said that there are some good tone/cab tweaks in the thread worthwhile when you take the time to peruse. I'm familiar with the circuit changes but I like to break in and dial in before I go there. I have a shit load of tubes to play with. Most don't. I have great boost pedals that mix really well with Marshall voiced rock amp. I don't play modern heavy.

Anyways my point is the amp sounds great when dialed in stock. It also improves with tube changes, speaker and minor circuit changes. Enjoy your knew Marshall! 2 yrs later I'm still digging mine.


----------



## ken361

Mine turned 2 Monday the longest I owned a amp in 9 years lol cant afford any more for a while


----------



## Micky

ken361 said:


> Mine turned 2 Monday the longest I owned a amp in 9 years lol cant afford any more for a while


This is why it is important to know how to maintain your amp.
It has lasted 2 years, probably without any problems at all.
It can last 20 years or more, even longer if properly maintained.

For example:
Do you have a complete set of spare tubes for it?
What about fuses? Do you know what it takes?
How about a short instrument cable jumper for testing?

These are simple yet very necessary resources for testing and maintaining your equipment.
One might add a DMM and a screwdriver or two, and maybe some alligator clip test leads.

And that last thing you should have, is a healthy respect for electricity. Thankfully no one I know of has electrocuted themselves from working on an amp, but the possibility definitely exists. If you are unfamiliar or uncomfortable working on an amp, then take it to a tech. If you DO choose to work on your amp, please be aware of ALL safety precautions BEFORE you start.


----------



## Michaeld13

Thanks solarburn. I think you posted some other clips as well through this thread and they all rocked. Really like the way you play and the amp sounds perfect. I have a 2x12 cab that I'll run with it once I get it. It has 2 g12h anniversary speakers in it. I wish it would ship already! What's pedals do you like with your Marshall? I use a superbadass mxr distortion with my Nighttrain- set on low gain to boost my dirty channel and like that sound.


----------



## solarburn

Michaeld13 said:


> Thanks solarburn. I think you posted some other clips as well through this thread and they all rocked. Really like the way you play and the amp sounds perfect. I have a 2x12 cab that I'll run with it once I get it. It has 2 g12h anniversary speakers in it. I wish it would ship already! What's pedals do you like with your Marshall? I use a superbadass mxr distortion with my Nighttrain- set on low gain to boost my dirty channel and like that sound.



Thanks bud. That 212 should sound great with those speakers. I've used those in a 412 and it rawked.

As far as pedals go with this amp specifically I use 4 OD's to get what I like and they all sound different. I use these as I see fit for what tone and feel I want so the order of them means nothing. These really mix well with the DSL40. Now when I play L2 with gain about 3 on the knob I need no pedal and it cleans up to a nice chimey clean. Good stuff. It's the Green channel only I boost with for different all Marshall tones.

1. Marvel Drive
2. OFA Tube booster
3. Radial Elevator
4. DanoElectro Transparent OD version 1 no longer built. It's a Timmy clone. They had to stop making it hence V2's arrival.LOL


----------



## Carlo

Hi, another old (rocking) fart here, did finish reading the whole thread today. New DSL40c owner, actually ended up with 2 of these. Got my first one delivered on Christmas eve, bought it at the largest online store here in Germany for € 787.-. On the evening of Jan. 2. i found out that the amp was on sale for 545.- Euros, a massive discount of 30%! Was really p*****d off. I went to bed that evening only to wind myself further up and before reaching critical mass, i got up and went downstairs and wrote an email to the store, that i would send the amp back the next day since i still was in the 30-day money back window. At the same time i ordered a new one at another store, since al major stores had dropped their price to. Next day i got notice that the store granted me a refund for the difference in price. The second one was already on its way, so i have 2 now. Could sell one with a profit now, the price is back at 787.- after a week, the wife however encourages me to keep both (love that woman....). So i've got one in our rehersal location the other one here at home, in which i put a creamback yesterday, big improvement, dont like the harsh sounds.
As i said, finished the thread, lots of information about what tubes to go for. Since i have two amps i must get a spare set asap, but no clou what to order. I love the warmer fat sound and i'm not in heavy stuff, guitars are 2 Fender strats, Gibson Lp and a Gretsch semi accustic. I quiet like the sound as it is with the creamback, might be a little less trebbly. Also im not that picky, so i will not invest major cash in high end tubes, lets say max 100€ for a complete set, any suggestions since i have no experience with tubes?
thx in advance,
Carlo


----------



## BanditPanda

Congratulations Carlo on your Double D's. Will make a great Marshall stack.!!
You will get a million suggestions for tubes and various reasons why so enjoy the experience.
Here is my current tube menu.
*V1 - *Mullard CV4004 / 12AX7
V2 & V3 - Svetlana 12AX7
V4 - JJ-ECC83 MG (Mid Gain)
POWER TUBES - Svetlana EL34


----------



## solarburn

To start out with make one tube change. Put a 12AX7-AC7HG+ in V1 only. HG stands for high grade not high gain which i dont do. FYI. If you do let us know how that one tube changed things better or worse. I have all kinds of tube voodoo magic.LOL

http://www.dougstubes.com/preamp-tubes/ruby-12ax7-ac7-hg.html


----------



## Carlo

solarburnDSL50 said:


> To start out with make one tube change. Put a 12AX7-AC7HG+ in V1 only. HG stands for high grade not high gain which i dont do. FYI. If you do let us know how that one tube changed things better or worse. I have all kinds of tube voodoo magic.LOL
> 
> http://www.dougstubes.com/preamp-tubes/ruby-12ax7-ac7-hg.html


Thanks,
seems this particular Tube is not for sale here in Germany, what about this one: JJ ECC803 / 12AX7


----------



## solarburn

Carlo said:


> Thanks,
> seems this particular Tube is not for sale here in Germany, what about this one: JJ ECC803 / 12AX7



I like the tone of this tube but due to the plate size it can be microphonic(rings, squeals, hums) especially in a combo in V1 slot. First preamp tube.

The tube I offered is also called a TAD 7025S or Preferred Series 12AX7. Check it out under those names too.

Lots of choices. More guys will come here and suggest.


----------



## Bownse

Bottom line (summed up from the most recent posts) is:

- Go slow with changes.

- Don't jump straight to every mod in this thread you might find your tastes are different.

- Start simple with the OEM stuff (bias, playing it, adjusting the adjuster thingies on the front, play it some more, etc.)

- Once you decide if you need to make changes, start simple first. Tubes are easy (pre-amp easier than primaries because you don't need to rebias after a pre-amp tube swap). Speaker is easy. Both can be put back the way they were easily. Don't jump into circuit mods unless you have to.


----------



## Carlo

I dont plan major changes, replaced speaker yesterday with a Creamback, checked Bias and that is it. Amp sounds great, its just that i like to have a spare set of tubes in reseve.


----------



## BanditPanda

Carlo said:


> Thanks,
> seems this particular Tube is not for sale here in Germany, what about this one: JJ ECC803 / 12AX7



Keep in mind many believe the V1 is the most important of the pre amp tubes.


----------



## scotheath

I've made it up to page 230 so far, lots of good info. I've had my DSL 100H about a month now, and love it ! has that sound I've been looking for, for a long time. I had a boogie express for a few years and acquired some pre amp tubes will I was trying to get a sound I liked out of it. 1 tube is a Sovtek 12AX7LPS which I saw back somewhere on this thread saying its a great PI tube. installed tube yesterday before taking head out to our weekly jam. (sounds great through a 1960A cab, better than through the mx cab I got with it)As I was hooking up to cab switched it on and was checking out the tubes I noticed the Sovtek tube was dark, no glow at all while V2 and V3 were lit right up, stuck my hand in there and shielded from light and could see a very faint glow from the Sovtek. so this morning I pulled Sovtek tube and put in the stock Marshall tube and it lit up just like the others, the Amp sounded awesome at the jam last night by the way. So is the tube no good ? do they run cooler or just don't light up like other tubes ? The boogie had covers on all the pre amp tubes so I cant really say how it acted in that amp. Would the marshal run and sound good with a buggered pre amp tube/
Sorry lots of questions I know for a first post


----------



## Micky

Some tubes don't light up like others, especially preamp tubes. If it sounded great (like I would expect) just keep playing. If it quits you will know it, as the PI is part of the final section and when it goes, the amp gets kinda quiet...

Glad you are enjoying this thread. Even though I started it for the DSL40c, there is a huge amount that applies to the 100h, as it uses the same chassis and most of the same components. Many new members put a post in the Introduce Yourself section, where they can take a moment to describe themselves and what music they like, as well as brag a bit about their equipment to all the members, not just to the ones who frequent this thread. Good to have you here!


----------



## scotheath

Micky said:


> Some tubes don't light up like others, especially preamp tubes. If it sounded great (like I would expect) just keep playing. If it quits you will know it, as the PI is part of the final section and when it goes, the amp gets kinda quiet...
> 
> Glad you are enjoying this thread. Even though I started it for the DSL40c, there is a huge amount that applies to the 100h, as it uses the same chassis and most of the same components. Many new members put a post in the Introduce Yourself section, where they can take a moment to describe themselves and what music they like, as well as brag a bit about their equipment to all the members, not just to the ones who frequent this thread. Good to have you here!


Thanks, I am definitely enjoying it, after going through about 230 pages of this thread so far I have seen the introduce yourself mentioned many times. I did the other day, didn't get to in depth though. Thanks again for the info. Only 107 more pages ta go


----------



## rlowe

rlowe said:


> Intonate, tweak it out good and enjoy! Here is a link to another guitar that will not bust the bank: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ENSEBCH





rlowe said:


> Intonate, tweak it out good and enjoy! Here is a link to another guitar that will not bust the bank: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ENSEBCH


Here is a Humbuggy guitar I recently selected in October. FedEx delivered this with a few other goodies. I own a Gibson les paul 2012 studio that has settled in good, and sounds good as well, but this guitar played like butter right out of the box. A bit finer in most points as compared to my studio. http://www.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/2016/USA/Les-Paul-Standard.aspx#LPNSTDEBCH1


----------



## G the wildman

Hi guys,
Anyone use the Boss OD1X with the DSL40c

Does anyone use a compression pedal with this amp.

I saw Alex Hutchinson demo a Roland amp, he was using these pedals. 

Very talented guy, not trying to buy his skills but boy could he make his axe sing. Unbelievable sustain.

G


----------



## Len

G the wildman said:


> Hi guys,
> Anyone use the Boss OD1X with the DSL40c
> 
> Does anyone use a compression pedal with this amp.
> 
> I saw Alex Hutchinson demo a Roland amp, he was using these pedals.
> 
> Very talented guy, not trying to buy his skills but boy could he make his axe sing. Unbelievable sustain.
> 
> G


I've used a compressor with the amp. Works well, like with any other amp.


----------



## rlowe

G the wildman said:


> Hi guys,
> Anyone use the Boss OD1X with the DSL40c
> 
> Does anyone use a compression pedal with this amp.
> 
> I saw Alex Hutchinson demo a Roland amp, he was using these pedals.
> 
> Very talented guy, not trying to buy his skills but boy could he make his axe sing. Unbelievable sustain.
> 
> G


Well, yes a Keeley 4 knob compressor before, or after the overdrives. Really fattens the tone up nicely!


----------



## G the wildman

rlowe said:


> Well, yes a Keeley 4 knob compressor before, or after the overdrives. Really fattens the tone up nicely!


Cheers guys, I am thinking of the TC Electronic hyper model.

I assume they are all much the same. 

Basic questions but I am only a grade 2 player at this time.


----------



## Micky

G the wildman said:


> Hi guys,
> Anyone use the Boss OD1X with the DSL40c
> 
> Does anyone use a compression pedal with this amp.
> 
> I saw Alex Hutchinson demo a Roland amp, he was using these pedals.
> 
> Very talented guy, not trying to buy his skills but boy could he make his axe sing. Unbelievable sustain.
> 
> G


Yes, I use an OD1-x. Not very often though, I don't need to.
It is the best overdrive I have ever used. Clean when I need it to be (use it with the DSL5c as well) and smooth dirty when I push it with the gain up. Expensive, but it is worth it.


----------



## ken361

I had a dynacomp great clean and boosted channels,like to get the Exotic compressor it works with cleans or dirt well. Like to try the EP boost also


----------



## Michaeld13

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Thanks bud. That 212 should sound great with those speakers. I've used those in a 412 and it rawked.
> 
> As far as pedals go with this amp specifically I use 4 OD's to get what I like and they all sound different. I use these as I see fit for what tone and feel I want so the order of them means nothing. These really mix well with the DSL40. Now when I play L2 with gain about 3 on the knob I need no pedal and it cleans up to a nice chimey clean. Good stuff. It's the Green channel only I boost with for different all Marshall tones.
> 
> 1. Marvel Drive
> 2. OFA Tube booster
> 3. Radial Elevator
> 4. DanoElectro Transparent OD version 1 no longer built. It's a Timmy clone. They had to stop making it hence V2's arrival.LOL


Cool. Thanks for that. I have heard Vox users doing the same thing. Getting a Vox sim pedal to use on their Vox. Seems a little strange at first, but sort of makes sense. I see the same with you and that Marvel drive.


----------



## Michaeld13

ken361 said:


> I had a dynacomp great clean and boosted channels,like to get the Exotic compressor it works with cleans or dirt well. Like to try the EP boost also


I actually just listed the SP compressor on "reverb"- it was cool but I think I like the dynamics of lowering my volume and hearing it get softer. I also had it set very subtly so it really was a pedal in my chain not doing a lot in my opinion. I was also going to list my EP boost- but am going to wait for my Marshall to arrive first and see how it should with it.


----------



## Atomicted

Hey marshall people. I've had a dsl40c for about 10 months now. The only mod is speaker upgrade, v30 8ohm. I'm playing in a new band, and decided to use this instead of my mesa. I have a spark(for solo boost)and noise gate in the loop. A tuner, wah, and a compressor in front. I am adding some more effects down the line. I love the amp, it can be bright. So today I tried switching to 20 watts, it smooth it down a lot. Small room loud drummer and bass player. I would love to be able to build a pedal board, where I can switch to the pushed settings. Is it possible?


----------



## Michaeld13

Atomicted said:


> Hey marshall people. I've had a dsl40c for about 10 months now. The only mod is speaker upgrade, v30 8ohm. I'm playing in a new band, and decided to use this instead of my mesa. I have a spark(for solo boost)and noise gate in the loop. A tuner, wah, and a compressor in front. I am adding some more effects down the line. I love the amp, it can be bright. So today I tried switching to 20 watts, it smooth it down a lot. Small room loud drummer and bass player. I would love to be able to build a pedal board, where I can switch to the pushed settings. Is it possible?



From what I've read, it's a major project to change the way the amp switches channels from it's default footswitch. So you'll probably need to figure out a different way to get the boost you need when you need it.


----------



## solarburn

Atomicted said:


> Hey marshall people. I've had a dsl40c for about 10 months now. The only mod is speaker upgrade, v30 8ohm. I'm playing in a new band, and decided to use this instead of my mesa. I have a spark(for solo boost)and noise gate in the loop. A tuner, wah, and a compressor in front. I am adding some more effects down the line. I love the amp, it can be bright. So today I tried switching to 20 watts, it smooth it down a lot. Small room loud drummer and bass player. I would love to be able to build a pedal board, where I can switch to the pushed settings. Is it possible?



This is easy you just have to pick 20watts and set your pedals accordingly. I mean it's not hard. Adjust your pedals to run at 20 watts when you run at that wattage. For the smaller places. If you know that's where you are playing then you won't use 40 watts right?


----------



## ken361

solarburnDSL50 said:


> This is easy you just have to pick 20watts and set your pedals accordingly. I mean it's not hard. Adjust your pedals to run at 20 watts when you run at that wattage. For the smaller places. If you know that's where you are playing then you won't use 40 watts right?


What guitar has the Super distortion in it? Like to get one sometime


----------



## rlowe

G the wildman said:


> Cheers guys, I am thinking of the TC Electronic hyper model.
> 
> I assume they are all much the same.
> 
> Basic questions but I am only a grade 2 player at this time.


The Keeley compressor an award winning studio grade compressor. There could possibly be compressors that are comparable today, but I haven't seen any in a stomp box yet. Here is a link: https://robertkeeley.com/product/keeley-4-knob-compressor/


----------



## solarburn

ken361 said:


> What guitar has the Super distortion in it? Like to get one sometime



Both. My EC 1000 LTD and my Tele.

The guitars sound different to. Of course the Tele is a bit brighter so it's cool to have that separation between them. I can get Tele twang with split coil. Not as twangy as a genuine Tele but stringy none the less. It's a mean sounding Tele though. My buddy bought one after hearing it and playing it. He plays out all the time with his.


----------



## solarburn

Micky...my nephews boys are going to play. I hooked the youngest up. He's 7. The other is 14. Brothers. My nephew makes good money. Gonna teach these boys awhile longer before I upgrade to tube. Told my nephew they will be playing Marshall. Its like owning your Harley's. He told me no problem.

I'm thinking the DSL40 will be their first foray into Marshall. Before I introduce them to the plexi and 2203X.LOL


----------



## Micky

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Micky...my nephews boys are going to play. I hooked the youngest up. He's 7. The other is 14. Brothers. My nephew makes good money. Gonna teach these boys awhile longer before I upgrade to tube. Told my nephew they will be playing Marshall. Its like owning your Harley's. He told me no problem.
> 
> I'm thinking the DSL40 will be their first foray into Marshall. Before I introduce them to the plexi and 2203X.LOL


At that age it may be better to give them something that requires less maintenance, you might wanna pick up a Code or an MG to start with. Stack one of these small SS amps on top of a 2X12 or 4X12 and it will sound killer. Then when they can appreciate the tone and might be better prepared for the maintenance required of a tube amp, upgrade to something bigger. Or maybe a DSL5 if you wanna move into a tube amp right away.

I get what you are saying though, you need good tone to start with, and it doesn't make a lot of sense to buy something you will wanna replace soon. Whatever they get, they will want something bigger. I know as a kid I wanted something bigger than the Fender Champ my dad got me, little did I realize I had a tiny tone monster that would be worth quite a chunk of change later on. If I had only kept it...

What ever you choose, I just hope they stick with it.


----------



## solarburn

Micky said:


> At that age it may be better to give them something that requires less maintenance, you might wanna pick up a Code or an MG to start with. Stack one of these small SS amps on top of a 2X12 or 4X12 and it will sound killer. Then when they can appreciate the tone and might be better prepared for the maintenance required of a tube amp, upgrade to something bigger. Or maybe a DSL5 if you wanna move into a tube amp right away.
> 
> I get what you are saying though, you need good tone to start with, and it doesn't make a lot of sense to buy something you will wanna replace soon. Whatever they get, they will want something bigger. I know as a kid I wanted something bigger than the Fender Champ my dad got me, little did I realize I had a tiny tone monster that would be worth quite a chunk of change later on. If I had only kept it...
> 
> What ever you choose, I just hope they stick with it.



Yeah for sure. We're doing the SS amps now. I have to see if they really want to play before we move on. When I say awhile I mean a couple years unless one or both pass me up in a year.LOL

My first amp was a SS Harmony combo that farted heavily when volume was added. Sounded horrid most of the time but I kept on playing. Played a cheap wine colored SG copy. Both made sound and that's all I needed to get hooked.

Also when the time comes I can teach them how to retube and bias. Something I'd like to pass on...if we get that far. Who knows man...they could go the Kemper/Fractal route or what ever is created in a few years. I'll steer them the best I can. I am a Marshall guy. Certain Marshalls just do it. I really want them to experience that sound, touch and feel.

Mostly I hope we add a couple more guitarist to the family. They can play what gear they want. It will be interesting to see what kind of musical direction they'll go while learning my rock ways?LOL


----------



## Bownse

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Told my nephew they will be playing Marshall. Its like owning your Harley's.



Marshall randomly drops parts on the ground?


----------



## solarburn

Bownse said:


> Marshall randomly drops parts on the ground?





Let's hope Marshall doesn't get butter fingerz too...


----------



## Micky

Bownse said:


> Marshall randomly drops parts on the ground?


No, they just leak everywhere you park one...


----------



## ken361

check this dudes tones


----------



## Michaeld13

Well I'm really ticked. I just chatted with MFriend and the order I placed in December backordered ship date of today (1/17) is now May! They oversold their alottment and mine didn't go out with the shipment they just got in... pretty bummed... I was kicking though Marshall's catalog of amps and was wondering what the difference sonically is between the JVM series and the DSL? I know they are a lot more money, more channels, better footswitching, but just curious now if they sound much different/better. It looks like they do have the classic chasis 40c in stock, I was waiting for the vintage flavor which I think looks cool. I was so ready to ROCK!


----------



## rlowe

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Yeah for sure. We're doing the SS amps now. I have to see if they really want to play before we move on. When I say awhile I mean a couple years unless one or both pass me up in a year.LOL
> 
> My first amp was a SS Harmony combo that farted heavily when volume was added. Sounded horrid most of the time but I kept on playing. Played a cheap wine colored SG copy. Both made sound and that's all I needed to get hooked.
> 
> Also when the time comes I can teach them how to retube and bias. Something I'd like to pass on...if we get that far. Who knows man...they could go the Kemper/Fractal route or what ever is created in a few years. I'll steer them the best I can. I am a Marshall guy. Certain Marshalls just do it. I really want them to experience that sound, touch and feel.
> 
> Mostly I hope we add a couple more guitarist to the family. They can play what gear they want. It will be interesting to see what kind of musical direction they'll go while learning my rock ways?LOL


Solid states are a good way to start, I hadn't played steady for quite a few years and then a few years back picked up a Fender mustang I. A little harsh and artificial sounding on some channels, but a good starter amp. Epi makes some decent starter packs around $200.00, here is a link but you probably already know: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guit...9649802-sku^H89163000002000@ADL4MF-adType^PLA


----------



## SteelLucky

Michaeld13,

I would just get the normal DSL40C. Your losing enjoyment time waiting for what is the same killer sounding amp. I wanted a cream one and waited to long to order it and they where out of stock. I was disappointed but that lasted until I turned the basic black amp on. Once I upgraded the speaker it is even better and I haven't looked back.


----------



## ledvedder

Hi, has anyone converted the combo to a head?


----------



## Len

ledvedder said:


> Hi, has anyone converted the combo to a head?


I have. Look here

http://www.marshallforum.com/threads/dsl40c-in-a-head-and-tone-question.94508/


----------



## Bownse

rlowe said:


> Solid states are a good way to start, I hadn't played steady for quite a few years and then a few years back picked up a Fender mustang I. A little harsh and artificial sounding on some channels, but a good starter amp. Epi makes some decent starter packs around $200.00, here is a link but you probably already know: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guit...9649802-sku^H89163000002000@ADL4MF-adType^PLA



My daughter just got her first electric guitar and amp (tele and a Mustang II). I messed around with it some. Lots of settings and at least a couple or so that sound pretty good for the package.


----------



## Bownse

ledvedder said:


> Hi, has anyone converted the combo to a head?



Yup. I thought I posted pics in this thread.

2x12 cab





and it goes to 11


----------



## Michaeld13

Steel, good advice. Done! Should be shipping the black version today. So I'm happy again  - sweeet combo conversion above!


----------



## solarburn

Bownse said:


> Yup. I thought I posted pics in this thread.
> 
> 2x12 cab
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and it goes to 11



Hey bud...you got a clip of yours with the Creamback 75? Not to put you on the spot but am really interested on how it sounds. I really dig the speaker.


----------



## Bownse

I'm over-geared for my talent. 

I have some clips. The 2x12 now houses both the G12H-17 as well as the OEM 70/80. Originally it was simply an issue of convenience and budget but I'm liking the 2. The Creamback mellows the 70/80 harsh.

Combo with Creamback (pre-head-mod)
http://www.fjr-tips.org/misc/BuriedAliveInTheBlues.mp3

After mod with dual 12s (playing around with my xmas present - Strymon Digi delay)
http://www.fjr-tips.org/misc/DigDemo2.mp3


----------



## solarburn

Thanks for the sample bro!


----------



## solarburn

rlowe said:


> Solid states are a good way to start, I hadn't played steady for quite a few years and then a few years back picked up a Fender mustang I. A little harsh and artificial sounding on some channels, but a good starter amp. Epi makes some decent starter packs around $200.00, here is a link but you probably already know: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guit...9649802-sku^H89163000002000@ADL4MF-adType^PLA



I spaced and didn't write what SS amp we're using. I already have lots of left over gear to get these boys started. Don't even need to buy guitars or amps.

I've got the 7 yr old using a Roland Cube 15. It's got 2 channels and 4 gain voicings. Overdrive, distortion, metal and metal stack. It's a great beginner or practice amp. Originally tried to get my oldest daughter into guitar but she couldn't get past the strings hurt my fingerz stage. She plays keyboard instead and quite well.

I also have a SS Vox Pathfinder 10 watt amp to get the other going. Plenty of pedals when we need etc. Don't need to buy anything else yet.

Let's hope they get hooked.


----------



## Liz

Hello Everyone,
I started to play the guitar around 20 years ago. Due to being in the military and having other interests, I stopped. Since I retired, I have picked up playing again. With that I went off the deep end. I recently purchased a Dean dimebonics and love it. Yesterday I ordered the DSL 40C after reading this thread. Lots of reading! I also have a pignose amp that I practice on now. I also ordered a 2016 LP standard fireball. Always loved the LPs and couldnt not resist. That is about the extent of what I am in for as of now. All that is left is to wait for the amp and guitar to come in and start practicing more. I am a beginner guitarist with a passion for the guitar. Wish I never quit playing before. Thank you all for the great information here.

Cheers,
Liz


----------



## Jimmyohio75

First post in this mammoth thread. After weeks of research I have determined that the DSL40C will be my next amp. I am planning to use it at our practice space and for medium sized gigs when I am unmic'd. I have been watching Craigslist like a hawk. I want to find one that already has the speaker swapped for either a Creamback, V30 or possibly a WGS Vet30 or ET65. Of course if I can snag one at a low price I can swap out the 70/80 on my own. There was one posted a couple weeks ago and the guy was only asking $350 for it. By the time I got around to contacting the seller the amp had sold already. I am hoping to find one for around $425-450. Not in a huge hurry. I think my patience will pay off.


----------



## solarburn

Welcome to the forum Liz and congrats on your new gear. Hope you have lots of fun with playing again.

Let us know what you think of the amp.


----------



## Snow and Steel

Liz said:


> Hello Everyone,
> I started to play the guitar around 20 years ago. Due to being in the military and having other interests, I stopped. Since I retired, I have picked up playing again. With that I went off the deep end. I recently purchased a Dean dimebonics and love it. Yesterday I ordered the DSL 40C after reading this thread. Lots of reading! I also have a pignose amp that I practice on now. I also ordered a 2016 LP standard fireball.



Some cool gear - welcome aboard and thank you for your service



Jimmyohio75 said:


> First post in this mammoth thread. After weeks of research I have determined that the DSL40C will be my next amp. I am planning to use it at our practice space and for medium sized gigs when I am unmic'd. I have been watching Craigslist like a hawk. I want to find one that already has the speaker swapped for either a Creamback, V30 or possibly a WGS Vet30 or ET65. Of course if I can snag one at a low price I can swap out the 70/80 on my own. There was one posted a couple weeks ago and the guy was only asking $350 for it. By the time I got around to contacting the seller the amp had sold already. I am hoping to find one for around $425-450. Not in a huge hurry. I think my patience will pay off.



Did you check your local guitar center? they often have used ones in the $400 range.

Welcome aboard!


----------



## rlowe

Liz said:


> Hello Everyone,
> I started to play the guitar around 20 years ago. Due to being in the military and having other interests, I stopped. Since I retired, I have picked up playing again. With that I went off the deep end. I recently purchased a Dean dimebonics and love it. Yesterday I ordered the DSL 40C after reading this thread. Lots of reading! I also have a pignose amp that I practice on now. I also ordered a 2016 LP standard fireball. Always loved the LPs and couldnt not resist. That is about the extent of what I am in for as of now. All that is left is to wait for the amp and guitar to come in and start practicing more. I am a beginner guitarist with a passion for the guitar. Wish I never quit playing before. Thank you all for the great information here.
> 
> Cheers,
> Liz


Good to hear about your renewed interest in playing guitar. After playing several instruments growing up, I decided to pursue guitar, and played in a band a few years. I played back in the late 70's early 80's when things got a little hairy (no pun intended) and quit as a fulltime player thru the years that followed. Ironically after I went on hiatus, I was offered a position to play guitar in an opening act for a well known band, somewhat regretted that, but I made that choice. Later I also went into the military, Desert Storm era and served after college. My love for music has never ceased, and eventually started purchasing music equipment again. Was it Gene Autry that sang, Back in the saddle again! or no I think that was Aerosmith!


----------



## Bownse

Snow and Steel said:


> Did you check your local guitar center? they often have used ones in the $400 range.



That's how I got mine. It was across the country at another GC (found it in the on-line used gear section). It shipped to a local shop for pickup at no extra cost. Found one in excellent condition that the local employees seemed to surprised to find really was "excellent" condition.

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Used/Marshall/Amplifiers-Effects.gc?Ntt=dsl40c&Ns=r


----------



## Jimmyohio75

Bownse said:


> That's how I got mine. It was across the country at another GC (found it in the on-line used gear section). It shipped to a local shop for pickup at no extra cost. Found one in excellent condition that the local employees seemed to surprised to find really was "excellent" condition.
> 
> http://www.guitarcenter.com/Used/Marshall/Amplifiers-Effects.gc?Ntt=dsl40c&Ns=r



How did you get free shipping? I bought a used guitar through GC and they charged me $20 to ship the guitar to my local store for pickup. This is why I have been avoiding GC in favor of Craigslist. I figured they would add $30-40 to the advertised price for shipping.


----------



## rlowe

Jimmyohio75 said:


> How did you get free shipping? I bought a used guitar through GC and they charged me $20 to ship the guitar to my local store for pickup. This is why I have been avoiding GC in favor of Craigslist. I figured they would add $30-40 to the advertised price for shipping.


Check Sweetwater, they do provide free shipping and sometimes have Demo models at a discount.


----------



## Michaeld13

Yahoo. New amp day!!


----------



## BanditPanda

Michaeld13 said:


> Yahoo. New amp day!!


Way to go Michael you must be as excited as hell !!! Have fun.
BP


----------



## Michaeld13

Ya mon! Plugging her in now- best part... no one is home!!!!


----------



## solarburn

Michaeld13 said:


> Yahoo. New amp day!!



Turn it loose!


----------



## SteelLucky

Michaeld13 said:


> Ya mon! Plugging her in now- best part... no one is home!!!!



LOL, set all knobs to noon with presence on 1 or 0, walk to other side of room and let it rip.


----------



## Bownse

Jimmyohio75 said:


> How did you get free shipping? I bought a used guitar through GC and they charged me $20 to ship the guitar to my local store for pickup. This is why I have been avoiding GC in favor of Craigslist. I figured they would add $30-40 to the advertised price for shipping.



Don't ask me. Maybe I did. Even at $40 it'd be better than meeting up with some Craigslist chucklehead behind Waffle House dumpster.


----------



## tmingle

Jimmyohio75 said:


> How did you get free shipping? I bought a used guitar through GC and they charged me $20 to ship the guitar to my local store for pickup. This is why I have been avoiding GC in favor of Craigslist. I figured they would add $30-40 to the advertised price for shipping.


I was trying to haggle the price on a new one, but couldn't get a deal. The salesman suggested a used model, found 1 in a California store. They shipped it to my house for $450.
Amp was like new.


----------



## Michaeld13

Nothing quite like a new amp or guitar day. Just scratching the surface with it. Lots of settings to fiddle with. But bottom line is I love it! I need to get some of those clip thingys to go on a voltage meter to check my bias as most have suggested doing. If anyone has a quick link on where to get those that would be great. But it sounds great. I'll give a full report after I spend a little more time with it. But I woke up super early this morning because I couldn't wait to play through it again. First Marshall. Big Hendrix, Eddie and Rhoads fan, so there ya go..


----------



## BanditPanda

From a Marshall Buyers Guide referencing Plexis this ..."There just isn’t anything like the ability to feel a set of power and preamp tubes overdriving together musically."
Is this achievable with the DSL40C and if so how ?


----------



## solarburn

BanditPanda said:


> From a Marshall Buyers Guide referencing Plexis this ..."There just isn’t anything like the ability to feel a set of power and preamp tubes overdriving together musically."
> Is the achievable with the DSL40C and if so how ?



Just a facsimile. The most telling tone characteristic is how open and clear the Plexi saturation is. Plus dynamics or feel.

I agree with the above statement. It is NOT just power tube saturation that gives a Plexi its gold. It's both preamp and power section. Those that say otherwise are mislead or techs.

DSL40. Green channel clean amp gain maxed with amp volume up in the sweet spot boosted by a good OD.

Having said this the Plexi big iron thump will not be there to flap your pants. It is glorious and a 40 watt midget will not go there.


----------



## BanditPanda

As usual thanks for your insight SB.

p.s. Does the facsimile still get the panties dropping ?


----------



## solarburn

BanditPanda said:


> As usual thanks for your insight SB.
> 
> p.s. Does the facsimile still get the panties dropping ?



There are times when the DSL40 delivers tone wise. It's up to you to drop those panties. But...yes the amp tone will start the process.


----------



## BanditPanda

solarburnDSL50 said:


> There are times when the DSL40 delivers tone wise. It's up to you to drop those panties. But...yes the amp tone will start the process.




Ahhhhh...the proverbial foot in the door....lmao !!!


----------



## solarburn

Of course it will deliver! I'm surprised at some of the tones I get out of her. It will do that sweet Marshall tickle spot where women don't care what we look like. It just felt tooooo goooood!

Add drinks on top of that and it's a sure thing. Dem panties dropping.


----------



## solarburn

come on what's more sexy than Marshall tone fingered right!

Not even Victoria Secret.

They need to feed them models some sammies. Waaaaay too skinny for me.


----------



## Len

BanditPanda said:


> From a Marshall Buyers Guide referencing Plexis this ..."There just isn’t anything like the ability to feel a set of power and preamp tubes overdriving together musically."
> Is this achievable with the DSL40C and if so how ?


Nope. Different type of amp design for a different feel.


----------



## solarburn

Len said:


> Nope. Different type of amp design for a different feel.



Mostly agree. Yet there are ways to mimic plexi using this amp if you know how. Not exact but good enough live.


----------



## Snow and Steel

Plexi tone is usually pretty bright, and not a ton of bass. I'd use the green channel, crunch in, gain around 6, with as much volume as you can get away with. I'd put the mids at 8, the treble at 7, the presence at 6, bass at 3, resonance OFF, and reverb OFF - that should be reasonably close enough for live work.


----------



## BanditPanda

Thank you SS..we'll give those a try.
BP


----------



## BanditPanda

Thanks for the " like " Bownse


----------



## Len

BanditPanda said:


> So here's an embarrassing admission but it does have to do with the DSL40C and my new Wampler Plexi Drive which will arrive next week so here goes.
> I listened to all the YT Plexi demos and I recognize a lot of the riffs that are played but lots of times I do not know the name of the song or group that played them.
> Keeping in mind that I am your basic, not very accomplished blues rock player with a Les Paul
> would you guys mind giving me some songs to learn which are Plexi driven?
> I'm not hard rock or metal and with no tapping or speed skills.
> Examples like AC/DC, Led Zep of course. I heard a Thin Lizzy song the other day demo's which sounded really good.
> I'm kind of hoping for a "Plexi Song Book For Beginners"
> 2 I'm already familiar with would be The Who's Summertime Blues and ZZ's Tush.
> Hope you don't mind ! I appreciate it.
> BP.


Try here:

http://www.marshallforum.com/forums/the-cellar.20/


----------



## Michaeld13

Sound clip incoming- this thing rocks! Panties be on the lookout.


----------



## Michaeld13

Certainly some mistakes- but I'm not Eddie- but man I think this amp is awesome. It will not reward sloppy playing- you hear every mistake- so I think it will make me a better player. My Night Train which I love sounds so lifeless now. Lets see if this works:


Delay and a phaser- straight into the amp otherwise. I think I know why they made it a bright amp- when you crank the gain on the ultra channels, I found maxing the treble and the prescence cuts through the muddy bits and gets you there. This was ultra channel 2 with treble, middle and presence maxed- bass and resonance on 3. Iphone recording- complete with my little pony in the background


----------



## Michaeld13

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Of course it will deliver! I'm surprised at some of the tones I get out of her. It will do that sweet Marshall tickle spot where women don't care what we look like. It just felt tooooo goooood!
> 
> Add drinks on top of that and it's a sure thing. Dem panties dropping.



That is so freakin funny!


----------



## Screamin Willie

Michaeld13 said:


> Certainly some mistakes- but I'm not Eddie- but man I think this amp is awesome. It will not reward sloppy playing- you hear every mistake- so I think it will make me a better player. My Night Train which I love sounds so lifeless now. Lets see if this works:
> 
> 
> Delay and a phaser- straight into the amp otherwise. I think I know why they made it a bright amp- when you crank the gain on the ultra channels, I found maxing the treble and the prescence cuts through the muddy bits and gets you there. This was ultra channel 2 with treble, middle and presence maxed- bass and resonance on 3. Iphone recording- complete with my little pony in the background




Cuttin' heads!

Love it.


----------



## solarburn

Screamin Willie said:


> Cuttin' heads!
> 
> Love it.



Loved it.

I ain't play'n VH but I'll cut heads. Great play'n.


----------



## solarburn

BanditPanda said:


> So here's an embarrassing admission but it does have to do with the DSL40C and my new Wampler Plexi Drive which will arrive next week so here goes.
> I listened to all the YT Plexi demos and I recognize a lot of the riffs that are played but lots of times I do not know the name of the song or group that played them.
> Keeping in mind that I am your basic, not very accomplished blues rock player with a Les Paul
> would you guys mind giving me some songs to learn which are Plexi driven?
> I'm not hard rock or metal and with no tapping or speed skills.
> Examples like AC/DC, Led Zep of course. I heard a Thin Lizzy song the other day demo's which sounded really good.
> I'm kind of hoping for a "Plexi Song Book For Beginners"
> 2 I'm already familiar with would be The Who's Summertime Blues and ZZ's Tush.
> Hope you don't mind ! I appreciate it.
> BP.



Experiment. Enjoy playing that amp. In my opinion too many players need attends or they wet themselves.


----------



## BanditPanda

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Experiment. Enjoy playing that amp. In my opinion too many players need attends or they wet themselves.




SB..Not sure what this means...."In my opinion too many players need attends or they wet themselves"


----------



## BanditPanda

Len said:


> Try here:
> 
> http://www.marshallforum.com/forums/the-cellar.20/


ok Len. Thanks. Will do.
B.P.


----------



## BanditPanda

Len I;m not looking for lessons I'm just looking for some song titles.
BP


----------



## Len

BanditPanda said:


> Len I;m not looking for lessons I'm just looking for some song titles.
> BP


Just an FYI, this forum is for gear discussions. The other forums are for technique and song discussions.


----------



## Michaeld13

Thanks guys. Been on a VH kick. Eddie just can do no wrong. He must have put in so many hours- I can only imagine... When I look at the tab to his songs it's like mining gold.


----------



## Michaeld13

Hey SolarBurn, who is your avatar? It looks like Robert Plant- but I know he didn't play guitar like that! It's a killer pic.


----------



## BanditPanda

Len said:


> Just an FYI, this forum is for gear discussions. The other forums are for technique and song discussions.


Yeah ok Lwen


----------



## solarburn

.


----------



## solarburn

Michaeld13 said:


> Hey SolarBurn, who is your avatar? It looks like Robert Plant- but I know he didn't play guitar like that! It's a killer pic.



Angus young.


----------



## solarburn

BanditPanda said:


> SB..Not sure what this means...."In my opinion too many players need attends or they wet themselves"



I'm still trying to figure it out too...


----------



## solarburn

BP you were looking for songs by plexis? Free its alright now popped into my head first...well besides ACDC. There are so many to choose from. I can't do it now but I'll come up with more when time allows.


----------



## BanditPanda

solarburnDSL50 said:


> BP you were looking for songs by plexis? Free its alright now popped into my head first...well besides ACDC. There are so many to choose from. I can't do it now but I'll come up with more when time allows.


Thanks a lot SB. You can pm me if it's more convenient.


----------



## Liz

So this happened over the last two days....


----------



## BanditPanda

Fair to say the last 2 days have been eventful and beautiful !!


----------



## Bownse

Love the tobacco burst. Mine is almost like that except without the pickup covers and pick guard while the case is black with white liner.


----------



## Snow and Steel

awesome!


----------



## MarshallDog

Congrats on the new gear, very nice!! LPSs are my favorites as you can tell from my sig below!!

I believe yours is Desertburst correct??


----------



## Liz

MarshallDog said:


> Congrats on the new gear, very nice!! LPSs are my favorites as you can tell from my sig below!!
> 
> I believe yours is Desertburst correct??



It is fireball. Very close to tobacco if not the same.


----------



## Micky

I am not a big fan of bursts... but I love the fact you got a new DSL!
I think you are gonna love the combination...


----------



## Liz

Micky said:


> I am not a big fan of bursts... but I love the fact you got a new DSL!
> I think you are gonna love the combination...



To each their own Micky. This guitar is amazing. The amp just as amazing. I am getting comfortable with both. Would be so much better if I really knew how to play better, all in good time! At least I have finally experienced the need to mod C19.


----------



## Micky

Liz said:


> To each their own Micky. This guitar is amazing. The amp just as amazing. I am getting comfortable with both. Would be so much better if I really knew how to play better, all in good time! At least I have finally experienced the need to mod C19.


That was the first thing I noticed when I plugged in my LP. The harshness was even worse with my Strat, so that is what led me to modify the value of C19. 

Clipped out of the circuit it was too muddy, so I soldered a few different values in to test them and settled in on a 120pf cap. Since then I have many mods to my DSL, all of them well-documented here in this thread. I know it is a big thread, and there may be a lot of useless stuff here (for some people) but it is by far the largest resource about this amp you will find on the Internet. Because of this thread, I have been answering questions for years about it...

And I know what you mean about playing better. If I played better my guitars would not collect so much dust...


----------



## Liz

Micky said:


> That was the first thing I noticed when I plugged in my LP. The harshness was even worse with my Strat, so that is what led me to modify the value of C19.
> 
> Clipped out of the circuit it was too muddy, so I soldered a few different values in to test them and settled in on a 120pf cap. Since then I have many mods to my DSL, all of them well-documented here in this thread. I know it is a big thread, and there may be a lot of useless stuff here (for some people) but it is by far the largest resource about this amp you will find on the Internet. Because of this thread, I have been answering questions for years about it...
> 
> And I know what you mean about playing better. If I played better my guitars would not collect so much dust...




I am a beginner guitarist at best. Good thing is a have a lot of time on my hands so I practice a lot. I just set the bias on my amp. They were set at 45/46 range. Based off of this website: http://www.tedweber.com/webervst/tubes1/calcbias.htm I set my bias at 37ish on both.

I have read through all 341 pages so far. Right now I am contemplating pulling C19 while I have it a part.

EDIT: opted out of pulling C19 right now. Will wait a bit and develop as a guitarist some.


----------



## Snow and Steel

I really like 36 on mine for bias, so you're doing well there.

I tend to think of the DSL as less of a channel switcher and more like 4 amps in one chassis. Find the base tone you like and its easy to dial a good tone without having to clip anything. Then from there start using pedals to add more gain, different textures, tones, EQ changes, solo boosts, effects, etfc etc.

Essentially the same way you used to run a bluesbreaker or plexi or 800.

If you are dead set on using as a channel switcher to have squeaky cleans and raging distortion, then the c19 mod is a must, although I wouldn't clip it out - look into changing the value instead, as Micky suggested.


----------



## Liz

Snow and Steel said:


> I really like 36 on mine for bias, so you're doing well there.
> 
> I tend to think of the DSL as less of a channel switcher and more like 4 amps in one chassis. Find the base tone you like and its easy to dial a good tone without having to clip anything. Then from there start using pedals to add more gain, different textures, tones, EQ changes, solo boosts, effects, etfc etc.
> 
> Essentially the same way you used to run a bluesbreaker or plexi or 800.
> 
> If you are dead set on using as a channel switcher to have squeaky cleans and raging distortion, then the c19 mod is a must, although I wouldn't clip it out - look into changing the value instead, as Micky suggested.



That is exactly why I opted on not changing it at this moment. I need to develop more then progress as I find my own sound. Although I did just play the amp after adjusting the bias and switched to ultra gain and well it is ultra. I can see how the mod helps. After reading everything, I like changing the value as some have done. They seem to have a better result. Also, I want to thank everyone for all the great information and advice on this thread. Played a big part in choosing which amp to buy.


----------



## ken361

My tech 35 years of tunning in amps said 30ma is were it should be at! Marshall doesnt even know why they set theres so high lol believe what you want, keep it high just keeps him in business he says.
The preamp were the distortion is coming from. Your causing more heat in the chassis and and it burns the tubes faster and can cause issues down the line. The power tubes just need enough breakup to prevent cross over distortion. Would like to hear people that tried both setting though.


----------



## ken361

Liz said:


> That is exactly why I opted on not changing it at this moment. I need to develop more then progress as I find my own sound. Although I did just play the amp after adjusting the bias and switched to ultra gain and well it is ultra. I can see how the mod helps. After reading everything, I like changing the value as some have done. They seem to have a better result. Also, I want to thank everyone for all the great information and advice on this thread. Played a big part in choosing which amp to buy.


C19 is only good at lower playing the cap is out of the circuit at higher volume! I play at bedroom just below 1 which is fine for recording and loud enough and loud at 4 so the 19 stays for me this is bedroom playing im not the greatest but you get the picture, still breaking in the speaker


----------



## solarburn

Liz said:


> That is exactly why I opted on not changing it at this moment. I need to develop more then progress as I find my own sound. Although I did just play the amp after adjusting the bias and switched to ultra gain and well it is ultra. I can see how the mod helps. After reading everything, I like changing the value as some have done. They seem to have a better result. Also, I want to thank everyone for all the great information and advice on this thread. Played a big part in choosing which amp to buy.



I've found L2 ultra gain kept low...around 3 on the knob...gives great classic to hard rock tones just with guitar volume adjustments. To me its more open sounding than L1.

I'm not a modern or high gain player so all that extra gain goes to waste for me.

Also saturation clears or becomes less buzzy, hairy, fizzy(however some term it)the louder you turn up the amp and the power section mixes with preamp.


----------



## Liz

ken361 said:


> C19 is only good at lower playing the cap is out of the circuit at higher volume! I play at bedroom just below 1 which is fine for recording and loud enough and loud at 4 so the 19 stays for me this is bedroom playing im not the greatest but you get the picture, still breaking in the speaker




If it is out of circuit at louder volumes then in my head its a win win to remove it as I play in my house and kinda like my neighbors.


----------



## Bownse

Liz said:


> To each their own Micky. This guitar is amazing. The amp just as amazing. I am getting comfortable with both. Would be so much better if I really knew how to play better, all in good time! At least I have finally experienced the need to mod C19.



Before modding circuits, consider speakers. It's easier to do and reverse and can have a more noticable difference.

-update-

I reread your post and saw you're already heading that way. Please accept my role as "Captain Obvious".


----------



## Liz

Bownse said:


> Before modding circuits, consider speakers. It's easier to do and reverse and can have a more noticable difference.
> 
> -update-
> 
> I reread your post and saw you're already heading that way. Please accept my role as "Captain Obvious".




I have a vintage 30 in my amp. The 70/80 is sitting in the garage now.


----------



## Msharky67

I am getting my DSL40CV tomorrow. I can't wait to get home from work. I have a WGS 65 in my Haze40. I was recommended it for it as it is too bass heavy. I am planning on cutting a new back panel for it with a bigger port hole to hopefully lesson the bass. I like the amp a lot and it sounds good with my other cabs. I don't think it is entirely the speaker in that amp that is the problem. I think it is the back. It needs to breath more. So I am planning on switching back to the stock speaker in it and may put the WGS65 in the DSL40c. If not right away I have a spare to test with. I wasn't planning on touching the DSL40c. It needs nothing really.


----------



## ken361

Msharky67 said:


> I am getting my DSL40CV tomorrow. I can't wait to get home from work. I have a WGS 65 in my Haze40. I was recommended it for it as it is too bass heavy. I am planning on cutting a new back panel for it with a bigger port hole to hopefully lesson the bass. I like the amp a lot and it sounds good with my other cabs. I don't think it is entirely the speaker in that amp that is the problem. I think it is the back. It needs to breath more. So I am planning on switching back to the stock speaker in it and may put the WGS65 in the DSL40c. If not right away I have a spare to test with. I wasn't planning on touching the DSL40c. It needs nothing really.


did the 65 sound better over time? I think you will like it, stock can be fine just keep the trb pres at 3 mids 4 but its def brighter


----------



## Screamin Willie

Liz said:


> If it is out of circuit at louder volumes then in my head its a win win to remove it as I play in my house and kinda like my neighbors.



Just to clarify, the effect of C19 is reduced as the "gain" setting is increased, not the volume setting, and that is only on the red channel.


----------



## ken361

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I've found L2 ultra gain kept low...around 3 on the knob...gives great classic to hard rock tones just with guitar volume adjustments. To me its more open sounding than L1.
> 
> I'm not a modern or high gain player so all that extra gain goes to waste for me.
> 
> Also saturation clears or becomes less buzzy, hairy, fizzy(however some term it)the louder you turn up the amp and the power section mixes with preamp.


Fatter tones too


----------



## solarburn

Just for fun and no mal intent I haven't heard anyone's mods or speaker changes sound better than what I get of mine stock.

However I do find tuning of ones amp to ones gear chain advantageous.

I also think too many look through this thread and think they need to change this or that before they have a handle on how the amp fits within their gear chain. Cracks me up. Not that I see it as an issue. Do what you want. I'll put my stock klips against your modded ones for comparison though. Just to show some of you get caught up with modding or changes too soon.

Course I may be wrong.


----------



## solarburn

I broke out my Westone's H/H guitar and it sounds much more bluesy. My girl commented on how much more bluesy it sounds. Just a guitar change mind you.

Seymour Duncan Pearly gates crunching the bridge and the stock Weston's neck pup which I have no idea about. The neck on this guitar is so good action wise it makes me laugh at my EC1000 set up and its fast.

Anyways the Westone's pups are really clear and hard to hide behind which I could give a shit about. When I play I command the notes. Not the other way around. And that's why I suck.LOL


----------



## ken361

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Just for fun and no mal intent I haven't heard anyone's mods or speaker changes sound better than what I get of mine stock.
> 
> However I do find tuning of ones amp to ones gear chain advantageous.
> 
> I also think too many look through this thread and think they need to change this or that before they have a handle on how the amp fits within their gear chain. Cracks me up. Not that I see it as an issue. Do what you want. I'll put my stock klips against your modded ones for comparison though. Just to show some of you get caught up with modding or changes too soon.
> 
> Course I may be wrong.


Mines recorded with a closed mic (vocal mic) at really low levels, yours is recorded different i wouldn't say its way better lol close mic it and lets hear it I like the stock tones when I test guitars at the store but its a bit bright loud though, stock bias might of been too hot? My speaker is pretty close to a greenback from what people say and its very popular also. Wait till I put a S. distortion in that EPI its going to be a bit better but its very close to the Gibsons I played and I owned.


----------



## solarburn

ken361 said:


> Mines recorded with a closed mic (vocal mic) at really low levels, yours is recorded different i wouldn't say its way better lol close mic it and lets hear it I like the stock tones when I test guitars at the store but its a bit bright loud though, stock bias might of been too hot? My speaker is pretty close to a greenback from what people say and its very popular also. Wait till I put a S. distortion in that EPI its going to be a bit better but its very close to the Gibsons I played and I owned.



I can't say mine are better honestly. My point is it will hold its own stock wise. 

Room acoustics can be challenging when recording...especially using a phone. Ive gotten terrible results we'd all cringe at.LOL

I've had nodded amps and amp built into a new one so I am into circuit changes. Can be awesome. Anymore though I wait till I tune mine with tubes and speaker within my gear chain. 

I think the real tuning test is how the amp does live in many different places where room/stage acoustics change so much. Fairly easy to tune mine in my favorite spot in the room. LOL


----------



## ken361

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I can't say mine are better honestly. My point is it will hold its own stock wise.
> 
> Room acoustics can be challenging when recording...especially using a phone. Ive gotten terrible results we'd all cringe at.LOL
> 
> I've had nodded amps and amp built into a new one so I am into circuit changes. Can be awesome. Anymore though I wait till I tune mine with tubes and speaker within my gear chain.
> 
> I think the real tuning test is how the amp does live in many different places where room/stage acoustics change so much. Fairly easy to tune mine in my favorite spot in the room. LOL


I dont like mine tone as much at my house to at my girls place which is warmer and fuller. Im plugging into a monster power station then a long maybe 20 ft extension cord then into my pc and then wall so that might effect it some also unfinished basement


----------



## ken361

actually your phone records good


----------



## solarburn

ken361 said:


> C19 is only good at lower playing the cap is out of the circuit at higher volume! I play at bedroom just below 1 which is fine for recording and loud enough and loud at 4 so the 19 stays for me this is bedroom playing im not the greatest but you get the picture, still breaking in the speaker




Ken...what is the name of that Hendrix song you did in your clip? Put a big ole smile on my face!


----------



## solarburn

ken361 said:


> I dont like mine tone as much at my house to at my girls place which is warmer and fuller. Im plugging into a monster power station then a long maybe 20 ft extension cord then into my pc and then wall so that might effect it some also unfinished basement



I've moved amps around and lost all the good tone I was getting. I've moved furniture in the same room and its ruined my sweet spots!


----------



## Dogs of Doom

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Ken...what is the name of that Hendrix song you did in your clip? Put a big ole smile on my face!


Manic Depression?


----------



## solarburn

Dogs of Doom said:


> Manic Depression?



That's it! Thanks D


----------



## ken361

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Ken...what is the name of that Hendrix song you did in your clip? Put a big ole smile on my face!


manic Depression


----------



## ken361

Wish I dump some mercury trans in the amp ,prb be sweet! tech said for 260 I could of had a jcm 800 output trans put in.


----------



## solarburn

If I remember right guys here been using classic tone OT's with great results...


----------



## solarburn

Ken ken ken ken ken.

After recording throughout the day between my EC1000 with Dimarzio SD and my Westone's with Pearly Gates/Westone's neck I will say the ESP with SD's rip way more. The Westone reminds me more of a Strat...real clear and stringy. The Dimarzio SD in the bridge has this sticky note articulation that kills the other. And I can rip on it.

Still loving the Dimarzio SD's. You need to get one in the bridge man.


----------



## ken361

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Ken ken ken ken ken.
> 
> After recording throughout the day between my EC1000 with Dimarzio SD and my Westone's with Pearly Gates/Westone's neck I will say the ESP with SD's rip way more. The Westone reminds me more of a Strat...real clear and stringy. The Dimarzio SD in the bridge has this sticky note articulation that kills the other. And I can rip on it.
> 
> Still loving the Dimarzio SD's. You need to get one in the bridge man.


Gates kinda vintage/classic rock? I like cream, zep, rush,acdc,stones,GFR, 80's metal,vh ect.lol


----------



## solarburn

ken361 said:


> Gates kinda vintage/classic rock? I like cream, zep, rush,acdc,stones,GFR, 80's metal,vh ect.lol



Yes yes and yes. Good grief if we were neighbors our neighbors would hate us.LOL

Just do the bridge slot. One pup change.


----------



## ken361

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Yes yes and yes. Good grief if we were neighbors our neighbors would hate us.LOL
> 
> Just do the bridge slot. One pup change.


works good with Mahogany ?


----------



## solarburn

That's a good question. I'd call Dimarzio.


----------



## ken361

solarburnDSL50 said:


> That's a good question. I'd call Dimarzio.


no the pearly gates


----------



## solarburn

Fuck the Pearly gates. I'm talking the SD'S sound feel better. My ESP is mahogany.


----------



## ken361

ok that makes sense , Ace frehley used them and many others


----------



## solarburn

Yeah man. Great pup for Marshall mids. Juicy.


----------



## solarburn

That ET65 will love them.


----------



## solarburn

Soon as I git some extra money I'm put'n this speaker in. It is not the Cream back.

https://www.amazon.com/Celestion-G1...d=1485488039&sr=8-3&keywords=celestion+g12-65


----------



## solarburn

Liz! How is that amp? I can't believe you put a V30 in it. There are plenty of high mids in this amps voicing.

What pups are in your most beautiful guitar? It looks sweet!


----------



## ken361

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Soon as I git some extra money I'm put'n this speaker in. It is not the Cream back.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Celestion-G1...d=1485488039&sr=8-3&keywords=celestion+g12-65


15ohm


----------



## Liz

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Liz! How is that amp? I can't believe you put a V30 in it. There are plenty of high mids in this amps voicing.
> 
> What pups are in your most beautiful guitar? It looks sweet!


The amp is awesome. Someone said earlier in this thread how this amp will show your mistakes. This is true but I dig it. Forces me to concentrate. As far as the V30 goes, I was going to built a cabinet and use it there. Have a mentioned that I have a lot of time on my hands? I am still going to do the cabinet when it gets warmer. So it went in the dsl40. The LP pups are burstbuckers, The Dean's pups are USA DMT Dimetime neck and Seymour Duncan Dimebucker Bridge. Also, I'm not lying when I say I'm just learning to play the guitar.


----------



## solarburn

Liz said:


> The amp is awesome. Someone said earlier in this thread how this amp will show your mistakes. This is true but I dig it. Forces me to concentrate. As far as the V30 goes, I was going to built a cabinet and use it there. Have a mentioned that I have a lot of time on my hands? I am still going to do the cabinet when it gets warmer. So it went in the dsl40. The LP pups are burstbuckers, The Dean's pups are USA DMT Dimetime neck and Seymour Duncan Dimebucker Bridge. Also, I'm not lying when I say I'm just learning to play the guitar.



Thanks for the pup run down. Very cool. The LP gives me goose bumps!

There are a few players here using a V30 in theirs. They seem to like it fine.

I play more vintage amps and they show all my slop. I love their tactile feel or response when wringing the neck or squeezing strings.LOL

So I tend to set my DSL up for more vintage tones. Same things happens with it. My High Gain days are long gone. I have a love for more midgain stuff although hard rock tones thrill me too. Just not modern gain thunder.

Anyways I am enjoying watching you start again and man nice gear too. I think someone knows what they're doing while they begin...congrats and look forward to hearing how much fun playing is again!


----------



## solarburn

ken361 said:


> 15ohm



Yeah 15ohm is close enuff for 16. It will be fine.


----------



## ken361

Holy cabs


----------



## Micky

ken361 said:


> Holy cabs


----------



## Liz

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Thanks for the pup run down. Very cool. The LP gives me goose bumps!
> 
> There are a few players here using a V30 in theirs. They seem to like it fine.
> 
> I play more vintage amps and they show all my slop. I love their tactile feel or response when wringing the neck or squeezing strings.LOL
> 
> So I tend to set my DSL up for more vintage tones. Same things happens with it. My High Gain days are long gone. I have a love for more midgain stuff although hard rock tones thrill me too. Just not modern gain thunder.
> 
> Anyways I am enjoying watching you start again and man nice gear too. I think someone knows what they're doing while they begin...congrats and look forward to hearing how much fun playing is again!




some pics...


----------



## rlowe

Liz said:


> some pics...
> View attachment 39445
> View attachment 39446


Yes, looks good. I just recently purchased a Gibson LPS T 2016 Ebony with some other goodies from Sweetwater. Installed a Vintage 30 about a year ago, gutsy and midrange rich. Enjoy your new equipment!


----------



## Michaeld13

Just for the record I'm loving mine stock. Just got a vibe pedal and am loving it! I know this is a bright amp,but even so I have the treble mids and prescience cranked and love the sound- sounds great that way at low volume jamin.


----------



## rlowe

Michaeld13 said:


> Just for the record I'm loving mine stock. Just got a vibe pedal and am loving it! I know this is a bright amp,but even so I have the treble mids and prescience cranked and love the sound- sounds great that way at low volume jamin.


After 2 years replacing all tubes (done early) and installing the Celestion V 30, this amp seems to lack the original brightness so many dislike about the amp. I have a large pedal board with endless EQ possibilities, and if you like thick fatter tone, yes try a Keeley 4 knob compressor, you will not be disappointed. I also have a Marshall mx 1x12 small ext. cab with the 70/80 speaker stock. The cab is a closed back, and not bright and piercing. Combined with the V30 in the dsl40c it sounds real good. I believe one can benefit from certain mods, if they are truly knowledgeable in the tech. arena. I have considered maybe, some certain mods, although my amp is still basically stock and sounds good for now. Experiment and enjoy!


----------



## rlowe

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Liz! How is that amp? I can't believe you put a V30 in it. There are plenty of high mids in this amps voicing.
> 
> What pups are in your most beautiful guitar? It looks sweet!


You should try a V30 in your amp, you will notice and believe!


----------



## solarburn

rlowe said:


> You should try a V30 in your amp, you will notice and believe!



Man if it sounds good that's all that matters. I've use V30's for along time. Greenbacks are what I've come to luv...for what I play.


----------



## rlowe

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Man if it sounds good that's all that matters. I've use V30's for along time. Greenbacks are what I've come to luv...for what I play.


Yes, it is a matter of preference, to each his own in the wide world of Marshall amplification!


----------



## Bownse

rlowe said:


> I also have a Marshall mx 1x12 small ext. cab with the 70/80 speaker stock. The cab is a closed back, and not bright and piercing. Combined with the V30 in the dsl40c it sounds real good.



Nice.

When I moved the Creamback 75 watter (softer/fuller tones) into the closed-back cab with the OEM 70/80, the combo of the 3 made for a really good balance. Some brightness from the 70/80 but moderated by being combined with the Creamback. The closed-back cab gave the whole more punch and articulation.


----------



## ken361

Bownse said:


> Nice.
> 
> When I moved the Creamback 75 watter (softer/fuller tones) into the closed-back cab with the OEM 70/80, the combo of the 3 made for a really good balance. Some brightness from the 70/80 but moderated by being combined with the Creamback. The closed-back cab gave the whole more punch and articulation.


I believe that would work good!


----------



## ken361

Pickup a EH LPB1 boost going to try this weekend I mainly wanted to boost the strat more with single coils.It fattens the tone up some and can add gain. Going to blast it with the Les Paul special first since I like having a humbucker again.


----------



## BanditPanda

ken361 said:


> Pickup a EH LPB1 boost going to try this weekend I mainly wanted to boost the strat more with single coils.It fattens the tone up some and can add gain. Going to blast it with the Les Paul special first since I like having a humbucker again.



That's a good choice imo Ken. I recently bought a second one for my board.
I like one so much driving my dirt pedals that I leave it on all the time. The other I have placed at the end of my effects loop chain to use as a solo boost as it will drive the power tubes from that position. Sounds excellent to my ears.
That pedal has the DNA from way back and the price can't be beat too !!


----------



## ken361

BanditPanda said:


> That's a good choice imo Ken. I recently bought a second one for my board.
> I like one so much driving my dirt pedals that I leave it on all the time. The other I have placed at the end of my effects loop chain to use as a solo boost as it will drive the power tubes from that position. Sounds excellent to my ears.
> That pedal has the DNA from way back and the price can't be beat too !!


Running pedals in your clean channel? lots of good reviews! I tried clean boost and a mini tube screamer last year and a compressor which I just took back to get the guitar with. Cleans boosted is pretty sweet with the right pedal and can be so loud but good


----------



## BanditPanda

ken361 said:


> Running pedals in your clean channel?



Clean channel is the only one I use on the DSL 40C.


----------



## ken361

His tones are nice with pedals


----------



## ken361

BanditPanda said:


> Clean channel is the only one I use on the DSL 40C.


It does fatten the red up big time have to eq the amp a tad this might be a good thing will see


----------



## Len

ken361 said:


> It does fatten the red up big time have to eq the amp a tad this might be a good thing will see


After the C19 mod I play through the red channel mainly.


----------



## ken361

not going to keep it too fat sounding,prb better for a low wattage low gain amp.sometimes its better to have less then more clean boost would be better prb.Single coils should better though.


----------



## Micky

ken361 said:


> His tones are nice with pedals



I made it to almost a minute...


----------



## BanditPanda

Funny, Micky !


----------



## scotheath

Up to page 282, so much info. finally decide to open up my 100H today and check bias out of curiosity. Right side from what I've read here is actual the left 2 tubes was reading 117 mv and the other right  was at 81 mv. yikes ! I've managed to get them balanced at 80.2 ish. I didn't check plate voltage, will have to read up on that more but they look to be original Marshall labelled tubes so gonna try it out for a bit as is, gotta be better than the previous, which still sounded pretty good to me.
while I was in there I found a plastic bag cinched up with a zip tie, that was melted to the cap on 1 of the power tube sockets, thought I might of found something but it was empty


----------



## Micky

scotheath said:


> Up to page 282, so much info. finally decide to open up my 100H today and check bias out of curiosity. Right side from what I've read here is actual the left 2 tubes was reading 117 mv and the other right  was at 81 mv. yikes ! I've managed to get them balanced at 80.2 ish. I didn't check plate voltage, will have to read up on that more but they look to be original Marshall labelled tubes so gonna try it out for a bit as is, gotta be better than the previous, which still sounded pretty good to me.
> while I was in there I found a plastic bag cinched up with a zip tie, that was melted to the cap on 1 of the power tube sockets, thought I might of found something but it was empty


Should have shot a photo of it before you removed it.
File that photo in the strange stuff bin...


----------



## ken361

Micky said:


> I made it to almost a minute...


T


Micky said:


> I made it to almost a minute...


The second time I watched got a little board after the first few thats OK!


----------



## Msharky67

Got this baby this week! WOW! I am totally blown away at how good this thing sounds. I have a DSL50 and DSL1h also. The cleans are so clear and crisp. The crunch sounds so robust. The lead 1 sounds like an old JMP I swear. It just has that purr that rolls off. Lead 2 does have a lot of gain but sounds good. I am still in the testing stages. I have a few guitars to try and my full pedal board yet. The amp sounds huge with the cab design and the resonance control is the key to it. It is so nice to add that whoomp too it. I don't plan on modding it for a while or at all. I don't think it needs anything. I got a great deal on this and it is in great condition. The amp is just so playable. They got it right this time for sure and I can see why it is so popular. The reverb is weak but still usable. I can't wait to record with this to hear how it sounds. If you don't have one of these yet get one because they are killer. I always wanted a 4210 and when I had one for a short time even though it had some issues I just felt it wasn't right. This one I feel's right. Probably my last amp for a while which is fine. I made a good choice and I know I will be happy for a while.


----------



## Msharky67

Michaeld13 said:


> Well I'm really ticked. I just chatted with MFriend and the order I placed in December backordered ship date of today (1/17) is now May! They oversold their alottment and mine didn't go out with the shipment they just got in... pretty bummed... I was kicking though Marshall's catalog of amps and was wondering what the difference sonically is between the JVM series and the DSL? I know they are a lot more money, more channels, better footswitching, but just curious now if they sound much different/better. It looks like they do have the classic chasis 40c in stock, I was waiting for the vintage flavor which I think looks cool. I was so ready to ROCK!



I was too ticked off about this as I have been waiting since October to get one. I had one before a handful of them got damaged from UPS. Mine was damaged when it came in. I was not happy. No replacement. That's why they ran out. I know many would have wanted one for Christmas now can't even get one after. I was searching on reverb and came across one and quickly snatched it up. I am glad I did because I got a steal for it and its in mint condition. If you can find one get it because they are killer. It will be worth the wait it you wait til May.


----------



## Micky

Msharky67 said:


> View attachment 39465
> 
> 
> Got this baby this week! WOW! I am totally blown away at how good this thing sounds. I have a DSL50 and DSL1h also. The cleans are so clear and crisp. The crunch sounds so robust. The lead 1 sounds like an old JMP I swear. It just has that purr that rolls off. Lead 2 does have a lot of gain but sounds good. I am still in the testing stages. I have a few guitars to try and my full pedal board yet. The amp sounds huge with the cab design and the resonance control is the key to it. It is so nice to add that whoomp too it. I don't plan on modding it for a while or at all. I don't think it needs anything. I got a great deal on this and it is in great condition. The amp is just so playable. They got it right this time for sure and I can see why it is so popular. The reverb is weak but still usable. I can't wait to record with this to hear how it sounds. If you don't have one of these yet get one because they are killer. I always wanted a 4210 and when I had one for a short time even though it had some issues I just felt it wasn't right. This one I feel's right. Probably my last amp for a while which is fine. I made a good choice and I know I will be happy for a while.


Finally!


----------



## whitecloud

ken361 said:


> no the pearly gates


I had a friends old Epiphone Genesis over to install some pickups. This was some years back. Anyway that's an all Mahogany guitar I put a SD Pearly Gates in the bridge and I thought it sounded great for that guitar. I actually had the guitar for a couple weeks and I think I even tracked with it. I bet you can score one on ebay rather cheap.FWIW. The pickup that is


----------



## solarburn

whitecloud said:


> I had a friends old Epiphone Genesis over to install some pickups. This was some years back. Anyway that's an all Mahogany guitar I put a SD Pearly Gates in the bridge and I thought it sounded great for that guitar. I actually had the guitar for a couple weeks and I think I even tracked with it. I bet you can score one on ebay rather cheap.FWIW. The pickup that is



The Pearly gates is a bright pup on full guitar volume. And yes its tone changes just with the volume pot on guitar. The one thing it does well is crunch. No mud. And it should cut nicely. I like the difference between it and my SD loaded guitars. Another tone to play with.

My Dimarzio SD adds this chewy character to solo notes and kills from blues to hard rock. It makes the Marshalls sound better. IME.


----------



## ken361

I used the EVH Frankenstein pickup that was pretty sweet
in the Peavy Wolfgang. The new Wolfgang pickups are very dynamic sounding with the DSL


----------



## Michaeld13

Msharky67 said:


> I was too ticked off about this as I have been waiting since October to get one. I had one before a handful of them got damaged from UPS. Mine was damaged when it came in. I was not happy. No replacement. That's why they ran out. I know many would have wanted one for Christmas now can't even get one after. I was searching on reverb and came across one and quickly snatched it up. I am glad I did because I got a steal for it and its in mint condition. If you can find one get it because they are killer. It will be worth the wait it you wait til May.



I ended up getting the standard build. Took some advice here to just get the black one and I'd soon forget I wanted the other style- and that's pretty much the case.. Loving mine as well congrats on the new amp!


----------



## Jimmyohio75

Looks like I am joining the club tomorrow. A near mint DSL40C with Creamback popped up on Craigslist. I am meeting the guy tomorrow to pull the trigger. Hoping to introduce my Les Paul to her tomorrow night after work. Should be the beginning of a long relationship. Should I plan to upgrade any tubes? The owner of this one said that he only played it about ten times. It seems that the tubes are basically new. Will report back tomorrow night.


----------



## BanditPanda

Congrats. Let your ears decide what changes you'd like to make.


----------



## Jimmyohio75

The eagle has landed....My first Marshall. Wow is all I can say! This thing screams! My ears are ringing. Played it for about 45 minutes on my lunch break. Kills me to go back to work. The Creamback sounds great although I have nothing to compare it to because I have never played this amp before, regardless of speaker. The guy I bought it from was super cool. He even threw in the Marshall vinyl cover with it. Luckily nobody was home when I brought it home so I could crank the volume. This amp definitely sounds best when it is fairly loud. This thread convinced me that I would love this amp. And I do! Really surprised by the (classic) clean channel. Sounds awesome. When the crunch is engaged on the classic channel it is pure hard rock heaven. As many people mentioned the reverb is less than stellar but it does add some slight depth. I will probably spend most of my time on ultra lead 1 with the gain around 5. 
Although I am in the honeymoon I absolutely love this thing. Here are a few pics......thanks for all of the knowledge on this forum.


----------



## Micky

Looks great! I love the cover!


----------



## solarburn

Sweet score!


----------



## Msharky67

Jimmyohio75 said:


> View attachment 39519
> View attachment 39518
> View attachment 39517
> The eagle has landed....My first Marshall. Wow is all I can say! This thing screams! My ears are ringing. Played it for about 45 minutes on my lunch break. Kills me to go back to work. The Creamback sounds great although I have nothing to compare it to because I have never played this amp before, regardless of speaker. The guy I bought it from was super cool. He even threw in the Marshall vinyl cover with it. Luckily nobody was home when I brought it home so I could crank the volume. This amp definitely sounds best when it is fairly loud. This thread convinced me that I would love this amp. And I do! Really surprised by the (classic) clean channel. Sounds awesome. When the crunch is engaged on the classic channel it is pure hard rock heaven. As many people mentioned the reverb is less than stellar but it does add some slight depth. I will probably spend most of my time on ultra lead 1 with the gain around 5.
> Although I am in the honeymoon I absolutely love this thing. Here are a few pics......thanks for all of the knowledge on this forum.



Great week to get a DSL. I love mine. I am going to have to get a cover for it too. This amp is so playable. The clean is very clear and articulate and the lead 1 sounds like a JMP. The cab design really makes it sound so huge. I am not sure if I want to change the speaker yet. I like the stock one. I am still putting it through the paces. Haven't tried all of my pedals yet. The one thing I noticed is how quiet the footswitch pedal is. No pop between channels. Big improvement. I know a lot of people wish you could switch between modes which would be good but would push the price up probably and get confusing when playing. Welcome to the club and enjoy!


----------



## solarburn

Sounds like someone's having fun...LOL


----------



## Jimmyohio75

Where can I buy a multimeter? I want to check the bias on mine. I have never done this before. Am I going to blow myself up?


----------



## riefil

Jimmyohio75 said:


> Where can I buy a multimeter? I want to check the bias on mine. I have never done this before. Am I going to blow myself up?


I got mine at Sears. Bought a Craftsman, which has served me well for other tasks. I've yet to tackle biasing, but will soon. I just picked up the "hook" attachments for the probes which should make it a little easier.


----------



## Micky

Jimmyohio75 said:


> Where can I buy a multimeter? I want to check the bias on mine. I have never done this before. Am I going to blow myself up?


Sears, Home Depot, Lowes even Walmart may have them.


----------



## ken361




----------



## Snow and Steel

Jimmyohio75 said:


> Where can I buy a multimeter? I want to check the bias on mine. I have never done this before. Am I going to blow myself up?



here;
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B...-b346-577e-8d79-cc28c0c31dc4&pf_rd_i=15707471

That's a pretty good unit that I like


----------



## Carlo

After playing both Amps for several weeks now, i like to share some experiences. As mentioned several times in this thread, there is in my opinion no need to mod anything if this amp is played loud enough, as we do in our rehearsal location. It sounds awesome stockwise. The one at home was to harsh at bedroom level, the creamback makes the difference for me. 
My only problem is the choice of guitar, my collection is a Gibson LP (498t and 490r), Fender MN, Fender Squier VM (Tex Mex SC's) and a Gretsch Streamliner semi. Both Strats i can use with the same Ampsettings, but the other i have to dial in completly different. I not shure witch one to use at our next Gig, switching guitars is clearly no option with this Amp, well there you go decisions, decisions. What a great amp and this thread still rocks......


----------



## Len

Jimmyohio75 said:


> Where can I buy a multimeter? I want to check the bias on mine. I have never done this before. Am I going to blow myself up?


Yes, you could kill yourself. The voltages in an amp are higher than what's in your wall. Don't open an amp unless you know what you're doing.


----------



## BanditPanda

Even with the amp unplugged do not go in there. What Len said is true.


----------



## Jimmyohio75

Looks like I will be looking for an amp tech. Certainly would not be fun dying while trying to bias an amp. Believe it or not this is the first amp I have owned in over 30 years that is not self biasing.


----------



## Snow and Steel

Jimmyohio75 said:


> Looks like I will be looking for an amp tech. Certainly would not be fun dying while trying to bias an amp. Believe it or not this is the first amp I have owned in over 30 years that is not self biasing.



Jimmy - I'm not sure where in Ohio you are, but I'm in Cincinnati. I can bias the amp for you if you need it. This really isn't a big deal and its very easy. I can instruct you how to do it so you can do it yourself from that point forth. Tubes are expensive enough - you don't want to pay a tech another $100 on top of that every time you want to retube.


----------



## Jimmyohio75

Snow and Steel said:


> Jimmy - I'm not sure where in Ohio you are, but I'm in Cincinnati. I can bias the amp for you if you need it. This really isn't a big deal and its very easy. I can instruct you how to do it so you can do it yourself from that point forth. Tubes are expensive enough - you don't want to pay a tech another $100 on top of that every time you want to retube.


That would have been awesome but I am almost 4 hours away in Akron. I appreciate the offer.


----------



## Snow and Steel

Jimmyohio75 said:


> That would have been awesome but I am almost 4 hours away in Akron. I appreciate the offer.



I'll send you a video.


----------



## solarburn

Learn to bias the amp. I would never let myself depend on someone else for this simple and normal tube amp maintenance. Especially on this amp. I say this excluding any physical or motor disabilities. I'm scared shitless of electricity. I've been bit by it on my cars coil. I have a healthy respect for it. I had no issue learning to bias this amp...and my vintage ones. You'll see.

Very kind of others to offer.


----------



## Stamminen

Quick question guys, I'm planning on doing the C12 mod on my 2003 DSL50 once I decide to open her up. Finding the red channel to be to brittle like everyone else.

Instead of clipping it completely I'd like to replace it with a different value. I don't know much about caps, but is this what I should be buying? Link is to an eBay seller. If I need a different kind of cap let me know.

I'm planning on possibly trying a 68pF, 100pF or 150pF

Thanks!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/32235920362...49&var=511281869560&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT


----------



## Micky

The link is just a generic ebay link on my end.
Any non-polarized ceramic or even a silver mica cap should be fine.


----------



## Stamminen

edited the link!


----------



## Bownse

I have 3 or 4 multimeters (one being a Fluke) and years of experience (hobbiest) with electronics. I still bought a Bias Pro-One ( https://www.eurotubes.com/store/pc/bias probes.htm ) because eventually something could happen.

You do everything a thousand times and there could be that one time when you get in a hurry or something distracts you. The step-up volts on the amp are enough that you wouldn't get a second chance.

I unplug from the mains, turn on power and standby, and let it set overnight. That will drain all capacitors without fail. Plug in the BP1 and re-install the tubes. From there (carefully) follow the directions on the various 40C bias videos and you're golden.

"Know your limitations."


----------



## Michaeld13

Bownse said:


> I have 3 or 4 multimeters (one being a Fluke) and years of experience (hobbiest) with electronics. I still bought a Bias Pro-One ( https://www.eurotubes.com/store/pc/bias probes.htm ) because eventually something could happen.
> 
> You do everything a thousand times and there could be that one time when you get in a hurry or something distracts you. The step-up volts on the amp are enough that you wouldn't get a second chance.
> 
> I unplug from the mains, turn on power and standby, and let it set overnight. That will drain all capacitors without fail. Plug in the BP1 and re-install the tubes. From there (carefully) follow the directions on the various 40C bias videos and you're golden.
> 
> "Know your limitations."




So to be clear- before biasing unplugs the amp, remove all the tubes, turn the power on and let it sit overnight. The put the tubes back in and the bias based on instructions/video? What is "BP1"?


----------



## Michaeld13

Well I'm happy to report, clean channel with MXR Super Badass Distortion is just that. Wow. Pedal never sounded so good...


----------



## rjohns1

For c12 in the older DSL amps, I always liked the 100pf. Just right of top end, not harsh.


----------



## BanditPanda

Michaeld13 said:


> So to be clear- before biasing unplugs the amp, remove all the tubes, turn the power on and let it sit overnight. The put the tubes back in and the bias based on instructions/video? What is "BP1"?



I know nothing about biasing amps but a BP1 is a multi meter. Follow this link for more info
Bias Pro-One https://www.eurotubes.com/store/pc/bias probes.htm

as provided by Bownse.


----------



## Michaeld13

Thanks BP!


----------



## Bownse

Michaeld13 said:


> So to be clear- before biasing unplugs the amp, remove all the tubes, turn the power on and let it sit overnight. The put the tubes back in and the bias based on instructions/video? What is "BP1"?



Nope. Unplug it as-is. When you bias, if you follow my original link you'll see the Bias-Pro One. It explains how it works and keeps your fingers and probes out of a hot amp when powered up (other than a plastic-screw driver to adjust the bias pots). They have videos and everything.


----------



## G the wildman

New reports show that leaving an amp on standby does harm. 

Standby should be used for short spells only.


----------



## G the wildman

Jimmyohio75 said:


> Looks like I will be looking for an amp tech. Certainly would not be fun dying while trying to bias an amp. Believe it or not this is the first amp I have owned in over 30 years that is not self biasing.


Google: bias DSL40c


----------



## BanditPanda

G.. do you have a link to that?
Also need to know what defines a " short spell "
Thanks
BP


----------



## G the wildman

BanditPanda said:


> G.. do you have a link to that?
> Also need to know what defines a " short spell "
> Thanks
> BP


----------



## G the wildman

Oops. That link is for biasing. I will come back on the standby article


----------



## G the wildman

Jimmyohio75 said:


> Looks like I will be looking for an amp tech. Certainly would not be fun dying while trying to bias an amp. Believe it or not this is the first amp I have owned in over 30 years that is not self biasing.


----------



## G the wildman

BanditPanda said:


> G.. do you have a link to that?
> Also need to know what defines a " short spell "
> Thanks
> BP


http://www.valvewizard.co.uk/standby.html


----------



## BanditPanda

That is a very interesting article ! It's only 8:30 a.m. here and I've already learned something new!! Thank you for that. Looks like I won 't be using the standby switch anymore.
BP


----------



## Jimmyohio75

Update on my new DSL40c..........
Cranked it up at band practice the other night. One thing for sure, this amp does not lack volume. We practice in a 50,000 square foot warehouse and I never had the volume past 4. And this is with a hard hitting drummer. The amp sounded great but I am still struggling with the brightness of the amp. Keep in mind I have been playing various Orange amps for the past 6-7 years and I am used to dark sounding amps. I only play Les Paul's with Humbuckers. Even at super loud volume it was tough to dial out the brightness. My amp has the Creamback speaker so that's not the culprit. Any advice on how to remove some of the brightness? Tubes?


----------



## solarburn

Jimmyohio75 said:


> Update on my new DSL40c..........
> Cranked it up at band practice the other night. One thing for sure, this amp does not lack volume. We practice in a 50,000 square foot warehouse and I never had the volume past 4. And this is with a hard hitting drummer. The amp sounded great but I am still struggling with the brightness of the amp. Keep in mind I have been playing various Orange amps for the past 6-7 years and I am used to dark sounding amps. I only play Les Paul's with Humbuckers. Even at super loud volume it was tough to dial out the brightness. My amp has the Creamback speaker so that's not the culprit. Any advice on how to remove some of the brightness? Tubes?



I agree your ears may be tuned to that darker Orange voicing.

Tube change and or EQ pedal in the loop.

What channel are you finding bright?


----------



## ken361

T


solarburnDSL50 said:


> I agree your ears may be tuned to that darker Orange voicing.
> 
> Tube change and or EQ pedal in the loop.
> 
> What channel are you finding bright?


Traded my strat for a mint EVH Striped Series guitar white with black strips,sounds great! Warm punchy with a sweet cutting top end


----------



## solarburn

Well there are a few ways to tame top end. A thin towel or blanket can tune the amp over the speaker cab. You'd be surprised...

With both my guitars with Dimarzio SD's I can get stringy sounding or warm and thick.

I have a shitload of tubes to use. Easy to warm it up with a V1 & V2 tube change and since he's getting into the power section there are warm power tubes to choose from too...


----------



## solarburn

ken361 said:


> T
> 
> Traded my strat for a mint EVH Striped Series guitar white with black strips,sounds great! Warm punchy with a sweet cutting top end



Congrats on the new guitar!


----------



## solarburn

I've got to be one of the most obnoxious players here.LOL sorry bro's!

Green crunch boosted a tad with my Dano CTO-1(Timmy clone)amp volume at 3 and phone 20ft away he he. Riding guitar volume only. One of these days I'll play pretty...cause the amp can do much.


----------



## BanditPanda

That was sounding sweet. Then you went with more volume.


----------



## ken361

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I've got to be one of the most obnoxious players here.LOL sorry bro's!
> 
> Green crunch boosted a tad with my Dano CTO-1(Timmy clone)amp volume at 3 and phone 20ft away he he. Riding guitar volume only. One of these days I'll play pretty...cause the amp can do much.



That 1960 amp is a loud SOB lol have any vids?


----------



## Jimmyohio75

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Well there are a few ways to tame top end. A thin towel or blanket can tune the amp over the speaker cab. You'd be surprised...
> 
> With both my guitars with Dimarzio SD's I can get stringy sounding or warm and thick.
> 
> I have a shitload of tubes to use. Easy to warm it up with a V1 & V2 tube change and since he's getting into the power section there are warm power tubes to choose from too...



Can you recommend some preamp tubes for V1 and V2 to help warm it up?


----------



## ken361

Slyvania Baldwins I use in the v2 v3 Tungsol v1,Sovtek lps PI


----------



## solarburn

BanditPanda said:


> That was sounding sweet. Then you went with more volume.



It does sound good with guitar volume down.


----------



## BanditPanda

Jimmyohio75 said:


> Can you recommend some preamp tubes for V1 and V2 to help warm it up?



If I may quote the most obnoxious player Solarburn here is one of his recommendations:
quote "To start out with make one tube change. Put a 12AX7-AC7HG+ in V1 only. HG stands for high grade not high gain " unquote.


----------



## BanditPanda

ken361 said:


> That 1960 amp is a loud SOB lol have any vids?


Ken I think he's using his DSL on green crunch channel


----------



## BanditPanda

solarburnDSL50 said:


> It does sound good with guitar volume down.



If you had effected the boost in volume thru a pedal as opposed to from the guitar volume perhaps that sweet character could have been maintained or enhanced?


----------



## solarburn

BanditPanda said:


> If I may quote the most obnoxious poster Solarburn here is one of his recommendations:
> quote "To start out with make one tube change. Put a 12AX7-AC7HG+ in V1 only. HG stands for high grade not high gain " unquote.



 & yes on V1. See what happens from there. A dark or smooth V2 can help as well.


----------



## solarburn

BanditPanda said:


> If you had effected the boost in volume thru a pedal as opposed to from the guitar volume perhaps that sweet character could have been maintained or enhanced?



It needs to have enough gain and power tube inclusion to sound right when throttling down the guitar. Otherwise it sounds too thin or brittle.

I didn't have to use full throttle on guitar and I don't if I'm boosting and backing off guitar volume like I did. However you have to give enuff amp and pedal to get a nice backed off guitar tone.


----------



## SteelLucky

solarburnDSL50 said:


> & yes on V1. See what happens from there. A dark or smooth V2 can help as well.



A NOS RFT in V2 will add that special dark.


----------



## solarburn

SteelLucky said:


> A NOS RFT in V2 will add that special dark.



Why yes...yes it will. So will a Raytheon BP. Most of these guys don't have them though. I do.


----------



## solarburn

L2 straight in.


----------



## solarburn

.


----------



## solarburn

.


----------



## Snow and Steel

Would love to. however, due to NDA, copyright and legal reasons I cannot publicly show most of the stuff I have.

Maybe I can get a recording of a stage warmup, just play some random crap? We'll see.


----------



## solarburn

.


----------



## ken361

BanditPanda said:


> Ken I think he's using his DSL on green crunch channel


I know I was just asking about it


----------



## solarburn

ken361 said:


> I know I was just asking about it



Yeah its very loud.LOL


----------



## ken361

New sound sample at bedroom levels, love this guitar plays way better then my old les Pauls or strats incredible action!


----------



## solarburn

ken361 said:


> New sound sample at bedroom levels, love this guitar plays way better then my old les Pauls or strats incredible action!




That sounds excellent. Like it a lot.

What pup is in it?


----------



## ken361

solarburnDSL50 said:


> That sounds excellent. Like it a lot.
> 
> What pup is in it?


EVH Wolfgang pickup, the highs silky smooth and clear as a bell. Its hard to really capture the real tone with what I have but its decent and thanks Dirty Joe lol


----------



## BanditPanda

ken361 said:


> New sound sample at bedroom levels, love this guitar plays way better then my old les Pauls or strats incredible action!




Yup..gotta agree with DOJ that's a pretty good sound that's coming outta there.
Congrats on the acquisition. You made a very good choice.Seems to suit you too.


----------



## solarburn

ken361 said:


> EVH Wolfgang pickup, the highs silky smooth and clear as a bell. Its hard to really capture the real tone with what I have but its decent and thanks Dirty Joe lol



You did good and I think it sounds better than your other guitars. Not night and day but significantly. Makes me want one! Great score and it sounds great with the DSL.


----------



## ken361

I think the Epiphone Les Paul Special has a lot of potential, its great even stock but adding a pickup is even more better.


----------



## Micky

ken361 said:


> I think the Epiphone Les Paul Special has a lot of potential, its great even stock but adding a pickup is even more better.


Are the Epi's weight-relieved?
Chances are, they are almost the same as a USA LP except for hardware and pickups...
How much does your weigh? My Studio is 9.5 pounds.


----------



## ken361

Micky said:


> Are the Epi's weight-relieved?
> Chances are, they are almost the same as a USA LP except for hardware and pickups...
> How much does your weigh? My Studio is 9.5 pounds.


I have the special II LTD Custom Shop with a nice maple veneer, just a 2 piece slab of Mahogany. Not really heavy though like Les Paul with a maple cap this is thinner but I dont mine its warm and thick sounding. Yeah old studio I had wasnt even 9.5 2009 model. I compared the 2 the Gibby was a little brighter but the EPI was a little thicker/nicer doing power chords


----------



## ken361

solarburnDSL50 said:


> You did good and I think it sounds better than your other guitars. Not night and day but significantly. Makes me want one! Great score and it sounds great with the DSL.


I would get the MIM ones over the Japan ones because they have the pickups at the correct height, the japanese has the stainless frets that I loved but didnt sound great loud with my fender and bogners pedals at the time. Maybe it was the setup? DSL might work better ?? you cant really adjust the pickup height there mounted to the body unless there modified. The EVH Wolfgang Standard started making them in Japan then China and now Mexico along with the Striped Series.


----------



## Nexodus2

I'm pretty terrible at navigating this form, and can't find my old post. I wanted to drop what happened and what solution worked for me.

Earlier in the week I posted about my FX loop acting janky. If i turned it on, the volume would surge, off, the volume would go flat. I would also have weird volume spikes. 

I learned a lot through the process of taking things apart using contact cleaner on anything and everything and tracing soldier points thinking it was the jack itself. Another forum member mentioned changing tubes, and e-mailed doug's tubes and got reccomendations. I ordered them and learned to bias all in one day (not to self, invest in hook probes NOT needle probes to bias). 

Upon initial biasing my bias readings were approximately 52 and 54 before changing tubes. I biased this number down then changed the tubes, which is probably silly. Once I completely changed all preamp and power tubes, I biased to about 37-38. Again, all I had was needle probes and holding them still on a cold day is quite the feat. 

While it was open, I figured I should just cut the c19 cap too. 

The sound my amp makes now is incredible. The highs are creamier, there is no rediculous harshness, and I feel like I have to learn the amp all over again with settings - but i'm super happy with it. 

So one, I wanted to share to ensure if anyone found a similar problem it most likely had to do with preamp tubes being wonky, but a full tube change, and the c19 mod will turn a solid amp into an outstanding one.

Thanks again for all the help guys!


----------



## Micky

So you are saying that changing the tubes fixed your loop problems?


----------



## rlowe

ken361 said:


> I have the special II LTD Custom Shop with a nice maple veneer, just a 2 piece slab of Mahogany. Not really heavy though like Les Paul with a maple cap this is thinner but I dont mine its warm and thick sounding. Yeah old studio I had wasnt even 9.5 2009 model. I compared the 2 the Gibby was a little brighter but the EPI was a little thicker/nicer doing power chords


You seem to be having the opposite experience that I had with these Epi's a few years back. I did two separate date comparisons with my 2012 Gibson studio, and could not believe the difference in the two guitars quality. The studio's Neck, frets, tuning, pickups, electronics, were all superior in quality and sound. I dare not compare my Gibson LP standard as it is better than my studio. Whatever floats your boat, but Epiphone special II guitars are generally listed as...beginner guitar's. Like your EVH!


----------



## ken361

rlowe said:


> You seem to be having the opposite experience that I had with these Epi's a few years back. I did two separate date comparisons with my 2012 Gibson studio, and could not believe the difference in the two guitars quality. The studio's Neck, frets, tuning, pickups, electronics, were all superior in quality and sound. I dare not compare my Gibson LP standard as it is better than my studio. Whatever floats your boat, but Epiphone special II guitars are generally listed as...beginner guitar's. Like your EVH!


I had a Les Paul Traditional Pro II so what lol. I had a studio 2012 that I got on a trade in for my EPI 1959 with a maple cap and gibson humbuckers, I took the gibson it resonated better unplugged and sounded a "bit" better plugged in. My Epi is kinda loud and resonates good plugged in or not I was pretty surprised


----------



## ken361

These convinced me to check them out, kinda hard to mess up a slab of Mahogany for the price its great The maple cap does add some brightness but for the money the EPI is pretty nice. No high frets,buzzes or pinching in the nut works great


----------



## Len

Looks like this is turning into a guitar thread...


----------



## solarburn

My opine on Gibson LP's? Ridiculous QC.

If you get a good one...celebrate!


----------



## solarburn

Well since we are using the same amp a bit of guitar info seems fine. As applied.

The worst QC guitar I've had over the years is a Gibson SG. The G string has always been tune challenged. Its not the only brand but my fav guitar has had issues.

Why is this relevant here? Because the SG & LP make the Marshall epic...including our beloved DSL40'S.


----------



## Micky

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Why is this relevant here? Because the SG & LP make the Marshall epic...including our beloved DSL40'S.


Hard to believe the DSL40 has become such an iconic combo.

When I started this thread I had no idea this amp would be so popular. It is glad to see SOOOOO many great people here using this amp and posting clips.

A little guitar talk here and there shouldn't hurt too much...


----------



## ken361

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Well since we are using the same amp a bit of guitar info seems fine. As applied.
> 
> The worst QC guitar I've had over the years is a Gibson SG. The G string has always been tune challenged. Its not the only brand but my fav guitar has had issues.
> 
> Why is this relevant here? Because the SG & LP make the Marshall epic...including our beloved DSL40'S.


My old SG 2009 had that issue, someone stated it was prb the neck angle that cause pinching in the nut?? maybe all I know this cheap EPI been flawless! some people have too much pride and think it was to cost 2,000 to sound better lol my ass


----------



## BanditPanda

Ken..it stands to reason that if you pay 2 grand for a musical instrument, as opposed to say 600 bucks, everything about the more expensive should be better.That would include sound. It may not be the case but it does stand to reason.


----------



## ken361

BanditPanda said:


> Ken..it stands to reason that if you pay 2 grand for a musical instrument, as opposed to say 600 bucks, everything about the more expensive should be better.That would include sound. It may not be the case but it does stand to reason.


Think mostly its looks and cosmetics, the pickups helps acorse a nice maple top cost more ect. After you owned both my thoughts has changed some.


----------



## BanditPanda

The age old adage... "you get what you pay for" generally holds true, across the board.


----------



## Michaeld13

solarburnDSL50 said:


> L2 straight in.



Awesome! You've got more licks than my two puppies. Sounds fantastic. You're a pro!


----------



## solarburn

Michaeld13 said:


> Awesome! You've got more licks than my two puppies. Sounds fantastic. You're a pro!



LOL

I can barely walk through the doorways here my head's so big now.


----------



## BanditPanda

solarburnDSL50 said:


> LOL
> 
> I can barely walk through the doorways here my head's so big now.


Lets face it SB , that's not a new problem !


----------



## solarburn

BanditPanda said:


> Lets face it SB , that's not a new problem !


----------



## rjohns1

Really bummed, got a new set of Mullard EL34 tubes. Put them in, and one of them won't bias below 42mv. The problem follows one tube. According to the Weber bias calc, with a plate voltage of 467v, it should be 37.4ma. So much for a matched set. The other tube will go down to 20mv on the lowest setting of the pot. Back in the old JJ's go until i get a replacement.


----------



## solarburn

Bummer rj. Been there before too.


----------



## rjohns1

Chicago Music Supply stepped up to the plate, they shipped me a new set of tubes this afternoon. No questions asked. Real nice people.


----------



## Bownse

Probably from a large shipment they came into after it "fell off a truck, yuze gize".


----------



## Len

rjohns1 said:


> Chicago Music Supply stepped up to the plate, they shipped me a new set of tubes this afternoon. No questions asked. Real nice people.


Chicago Music Exchange?


----------



## rjohns1

Yeah, Chicago Music Exchange. I had it wrong.


----------



## Len

rjohns1 said:


> Yeah, Chicago Music Exchange. I had it wrong.


If you're ever in Chicago that is the best place to visit. I've been going there for years. Huge selection of gear and great service.


----------



## Michaeld13

Well, I had some static coming from my Night Train- opened it up and found out that my two new TungSol power tubes were the culprit- so I replaced them with JJ's and the static went away- a lot more punchy now. I also noticed but couldn't recall but- that in V1 is a Ruby HG+ 678 AC5- always really liked the sound of this amp- I assume it came that way stock- anyhow- just another plug for the Ruby HG+ like SolarBurn has posted about. Still waiting on my darn hook thingy's to come for my multimeter to check my bias- I guess the are coming from China via an amazon purchase- I hope they fit my existing multimeter- taking forever to get here...


----------



## rjohns1

I bought them from them on Reverb. If I ever go to Chicago I will definitely check them out.


----------



## Basilios

Howdy all! Just purchased a brand new blackout 40c yesterday. Still getting familiar with it but such a great amp. I previously had the Marshall code 25 but wasn't a fan of all the tweaking. Love being able to plug in and not think about what kind of settings I should run and all that other junk!


----------



## BanditPanda

I hear ya! Congrats.


----------



## Basilios

Thanks for the welcome. Took a straturday photo before I started playing earlier today!


----------



## ken361

Basilios said:


> View attachment 39765
> 
> 
> Thanks for the welcome. Took a straturday photo before I started playing earlier today!


Wait to you try humbuckers


----------



## Michaeld13

That's cool. Never seen a color scheme like that. Is that from the factory like that? Or was is aftermarket? Looks cool!


----------



## BanditPanda

Michaeld13 said:


> That's cool. Never seen a color scheme like that. Is that from the factory like that? Or was is aftermarket? Looks cool!



It was one of the offerings from Marshall. Like the CV for instance. It's called the 40CB. ( B for Black )


----------



## Carlo

BanditPanda said:


> That is a very interesting article ! It's only 8:30 a.m. here and I've already learned something new!! Thank you for that. Looks like I won 't be using the standby switch anymore.
> BP


somehow i cant agree with that, why would leading amp manufacturers add a standby switch to their equipment if it would shorten the life of tubes or do harm to the amp in some other way? Theres alot of discussions going on in the net what to do with the standby switch, for me, i trust Marshall and continue making use of it...


----------



## BanditPanda

Some scientists say global warming is a fact. Some say it is a fallacy.
Damned if I know !


----------



## Bownse

When an amp manufacturer sends out a customer notice to quit using the standby switch, I'll pay attention.


----------



## Carlo

I have a small problem, i have several guitars, 2 Fender Stats, a Gretsch and a Gibson LP 50's Tribute with 480r and 498t PU's. Somehow i'm struggling to find an acceptable sound with the Gibson, everything i try sounds like crap, mostly muddy especially when playing chords. Strats sound great, Gretsch is a different game anyway. Anyone here playing these PU's? Maybe a little help with settings would be great. Start hating my Gibson


----------



## BanditPanda

Set your amp up with the best settings for your Strats & or Gretch.
Get a pedal for use only when playing your LP.


----------



## ken361

Carlo said:


> I have a small problem, i have several guitars, 2 Fender Stats, a Gretsch and a Gibson LP 50's Tribute with 480r and 498t PU's. Somehow i'm struggling to find an acceptable sound with the Gibson, everything i try sounds like crap, mostly muddy especially when playing chords. Strats sound great, Gretsch is a different game anyway. Anyone here playing these PU's? Maybe a little help with settings would be great. Start hating my Gibson


I always raise the pole pieces up prb 2 turns 2nd through 5th string it follows the neck radius


----------



## ken361

Since I'm playing humbuckers again my red 1 feels so good with the cooler bias settings now,has more sag and not stiff like before. The EVH rules through it loud and proud!


----------



## Michaeld13

I seem to be stuck with a pedal on the green clean channel. It's very quiet with heavy gain and sounds *very* good. I wanted the red channeles to be my go to for distoroted tones, but a/b'ing them- that green with my mxr superbadass distortion sounds so amazing. Mine is still all stock- so once i get aound to checking bias and maybe a simple tube swap things might change- but... I'm in no rush!


----------



## Carlo

would raising the polepieces not adding to the muddiness? Bias is set to 36mv. Btw, this neck has not much of a radius.


----------



## ken361

Carlo said:


> would raising the polepieces not adding to the muddiness? Bias is set to 36mv. Btw, this neck has not much of a radius.


Yes, I had that issue when I bought a Gibson SG I didn't like the pups at first and took it to my local dealer and he adjusted it for me,he said its a little trick he learned years ago. I really liked it after. The neck pickup height is very important also,up too high your bridge will get muddy also! I know I like the bridge height at 3mm or 1/8 on the LowE side and 2mm or 1/16 high E


----------



## G the wildman

I am in England. So will call Marshall and enquire if the standby switch is harmful if used for any length of time.


----------



## Michaeld13

Well I said the green channel rocks with a pedal- but I switched over to the red 1- and man that sounds great too! Different but great! In both instances I'm putting a pedal in there- I have a "luther drive" which is a gearmanndude tubescreamer pedal and that works great on the red channel with medium gain on the amp- and the pdeal pushes it just right. I can do a comparison sound sample if anyone is interested.


----------



## solarburn

Michaeld13 said:


> Well I said the green channel rocks with a pedal- but I switched over to the red 1- and man that sounds great too! Different but great! In both instances I'm putting a pedal in there- I have a "luther drive" which is a gearmanndude tubescreamer pedal and that works great on the red channel with medium gain on the amp- and the pdeal pushes it just right. I can do a comparison sound sample if anyone is interested.



Yeah I'd like to hear how it compares.


----------



## rlowe

Carlo said:


> I have a small problem, i have several guitars, 2 Fender Stats, a Gretsch and a Gibson LP 50's Tribute with 480r and 498t PU's. Somehow i'm struggling to find an acceptable sound with the Gibson, everything i try sounds like crap, mostly muddy especially when playing chords. Strats sound great, Gretsch is a different game anyway. Anyone here playing these PU's? Maybe a little help with settings would be great. Start hating my Gibson


I have 2 Gibsons, Les paul studio with 490r and 498t PU's. The standard has Burstbucker Pros PU's, and both guitar's sound great with the amp. It could be any number of things, pickup height too close, preamp tubes, power tubes. Many tru-bypass pedals without buffer, long cable runs can steal your higher frequency's thru capacitance. The Gibson Les paul is a naturally darker sounding guitar, but with setup and adjustments on amp and pedal board you should get a good sound. Another thing you can try is a MXR 10 band EQ, or any EQ pedal for that matter!


----------



## Carlo

Thanks guys, will look at the pickup heights and take it from there, got e set of new tubes lying around, so that would be the next step, although the Strat sounds awesome especially with the Seymour Duncan SSL5 in the bridge position. Thanks again.


----------



## riefil

Hi all. Had a day off from work today(Thanks President Lincoln) so I decided to dive into my DSL40C. First things first...biasing. I've got to say it was easier then I thought. The hardest part was getting the chassis out. The transformers were hitting the "side rail" where the back panel is screwed on. The right side was already at 38.4 but the left was at 40.7. The one thing I didn't realize was that as you adjusted one side, the other would fluctuate. So after a little back and forth, I finally got them both at 38ish. Plugged it in and it sounded very nice. I figured while I had the back off I'd try a couple of different preamp tubes I had tucked away. I settled on Ruby Tubes 12ax7 HG in V1 and V2, kept the Marshall in V3 and went with a Sovtek 12ax7LPS in V4. The result was subtle but I felt that there is a little more clarity on Green Crunch. Lead 1 and 2 don't seem as harsh. Maybe a little more tame for lack of a better way to put it. Lastly, it seems that my volume has increased a bit. Could be just my imagination.
Bottom line...I am now more confident in my tech abilities should I need to change Power Tubes and a little more satisfied with my amp.
Thank you to all those who have posted about biasing for giving me the confidence to give it a whirl. I used all the precautions that I've read about and it definitely made it less intimidating.

Phil


----------



## Basilios

ken361 said:


> Wait to you try humbuckers




Today was actually spent testing it out with my lp studio.


----------



## Dirtydeeds25

Recently my dsl40c has been acting up in the triode setting by producing a low hum that doesn't change in volume and isn't present in the pentode mode. It worked fine but the humost was annoying. Today I turned it on and experienced the most God awful noise I've ever heard from an amp .
It worked fine last night what could it be? Nothings plugged into the amp, the fx loop is turned off, and allet the knobs are set to 0. When I plug my guitar in there's also no signal. Thanks!


----------



## Snow and Steel

I'd suspect a tube, and I'm _guessing _a early pre-amp tube - V1? That would be pretty terrifying to hear if you don't expect it!


----------



## Dirtydeeds25

Snow and Steel said:


> I'd suspect a tube, and I'm _guessing _a early pre-amp tube - V1? That would be pretty terrifying to hear if you don't expect it!


I thought my amp was gonna blow up! I did find out it works if I switch it in and out of standby but it crackles if I play with any real volume


----------



## rlowe

Dirtydeeds25 said:


> I thought my amp was gonna blow up! I did find out it works if I switch it in and out of standby but it crackles if I play with any real volume


I have never heard that noise before on the DSL40c; however if you hear a snap, crackle, pop when you turn your amp on it could be a power tube, maybe preamp! Try lightly tapping all tubes with amp on using a thin wood dowel, or wooden rod. Good solid; clunky bad.


----------



## Micky

Chances are it is a power tube.
Put in your spare set and see if it goes away.
WHAT! No spare set?
Try swapping the power tubes, as well as the preamp tubes...


----------



## Bownse

rlowe said:


> I have never heard that noise before on the DSL40c; however if you hear a snap, crackle, pop when you turn your amp on it could be a power tube, maybe preamp! Try lightly tapping all tubes with amp on using a thin wood dowel, or wooden rod. Good solid; clunky bad.




Air raid! Duck!

Chop sticks work, too.


----------



## BanditPanda

Bownse said:


> Air raid! Duck!
> 
> Chop sticks work, too.


Vietnamese chop sticks.


----------



## rlowe

Bownse said:


> Air raid! Duck!
> 
> Chop sticks work, too.


 Come to think of it, I do have an extra pair of chopsticks, maybe not Vietnamese the local Chinese food variety.


----------



## SteelLucky

Micky said:


> Chances are it is a power tube.
> Put in your spare set and see if it goes away.
> WHAT! No spare set?
> Try swapping the power tubes, as well as the preamp tubes...





Dirtydeeds25 said:


> Recently my dsl40c has been acting up in the triode setting by producing a low hum that doesn't change in volume and isn't present in the pentode mode. It worked fine but the humost was annoying. Today I turned it on and experienced the most God awful noise I've ever heard from an amp .
> It worked fine last night what could it be? Nothings plugged into the amp, the fx loop is turned off, and allet the knobs are set to 0. When I plug my guitar in there's also no signal. Thanks!




Power tube or V4 preamp tube failure is my guess. I would try V4 first.


----------



## rlowe

Dirtydeeds25 said:


> I thought my amp was gonna blow up! I did find out it works if I switch it in and out of standby but it crackles if I play with any real volume


Come to think about it, about a year ago my 40c would crackle, and pop loud when I turned it on. Using my Chinese chopsticks (NPI), I tapped power tubes, hollow and clunky, I also tapped preamp tubes most would also give a hollow, or clunky sound. Anyways I changed all tubes and Vola.. back in business. I have a spare set of JJ EL34,s, JJ E34L's, Tad EL34's which are currently installed. IMO the JJ E34L's and not the JJ EL34's sound better, more aggressive, punchier with this amp. Doug's tubes has a set of preamp tubes that are hand selected for the 40c they are just a tad bit better!


----------



## Dirtydeeds25

Thanks for the replies everyone I didn't think a bad tube could be so dramatic. I tap tested the tubes and it seems that 1st Power tube and the V4 preamp are the culprits as they're the ones crackling.


----------



## Snow and Steel

I've got the original tubes that came out of my Marshall DSL100h. They have no time on them - I changed them out the day I got the amp and I bought the amp new. That would give you 4 pre-amp tubes, and 2 matched sets of power tubes. I'm not using them so I could sell them to you very reasonable. Might save you a few bucks from buying new tubes, or worse, buying new tubes and not liking the tone change.

Then again, a new set of tubes with recommendations form someone like "Doug's tubes" is often a safe bet, if you you do want to improve the tone and know what you are trying to change.


----------



## solarburn

Had a good laugh at myself.

Was playing along and all of a sudden the amp went silent. I'm going straight in so I'm checking cable in jack, no sound with guitar volume, turned amp on and off etc.

Then I realized I had hit my guitar pup toggle to middle position. Well I had neck volume pot off. Since it was off the middle position made no sound.

I didn't feel hitting the toggle so I thought the amp dumped and it made no sound going out. Too funny and a happy ending.LOL


----------



## BanditPanda

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Had a good laugh at myself.
> 
> Was playing along and all of a sudden the amp went silent. I'm going straight in so I'm checking cable in jack, no sound with guitar volume, turned amp on and off etc.
> 
> Then I realized I had hit my guitar pup toggle to middle position. Well I had neck volume pot off. Since it was off the middle position made no sound.
> 
> I didn't feel hitting the toggle so I thought the amp dumped and it made no sound going out. Too funny and a happy ending.LOL



What guitar were you using? Mid position on a Paul turns neck & bridge on and it would be completely uncharacteristic of you to have the volume on the bridge pick up turned off !!


----------



## solarburn

BanditPanda said:


> What guitar were you using? Mid position on a Paul turns neck & bridge on and it would be completely uncharacteristic of you to have the volume on the bridge pick up turned off !!



My ESP EC1000. Have to have a bit of the neck pup volume on to get sound from it. Zeroed nothing.


----------



## Bownse

BanditPanda said:


> Vietnamese chop sticks.



Does one chopstick fight the other and then have interventions from first the egg roll then the main course until eventually both of those leave and the chopstick conflict resolves itself?


----------



## Dirtydeeds25

Snow and Steel said:


> I've got the original tubes that came out of my Marshall DSL100h. They have no time on them - I changed them out the day I got the amp and I bought the amp new. That would give you 4 pre-amp tubes, and 2 matched sets of power tubes. I'm not using them so I could sell them to you very reasonable. Might save you a few bucks from buying new tubes, or worse, buying new tubes and not liking the tone change.
> 
> Then again, a new set of tubes with recommendations form someone like "Doug's tubes" is often a safe bet, if you you do want to improve the tone and know what you are trying to change.


I might take you up on that offer if I decide to get the stock again!


----------



## crossroadsnyc

Dirtydeeds25 said:


> I might take you up on that offer if I decide to get the stock again!



The best thing about his offer? Done. Dirt. Cheep. 

this joke is so bad, i don't know if i can show my face in this thread again.


----------



## solarburn

.


----------



## 5150

New member here  I've got a DSL40CST coming from Sweetwater, should be here Tuesday. Holy crap, this waiting B.S. is agonizing 

Anyhoo, already to page 170 of this monster thread  I'm gonna run mine stock (well, aside from the pre-installed Creamback) for the time being. I played one at my local GC and instantly fell in love. I've been chasing the Marshall sound for so long, it didn't even occur to me - until I actually played one - to just BUY a freaking Marshall! Lol!!

My current setup - a pedalboard based around the MXR 5150 Overdrive (and obligatory EVH Phase & Flanger, chorus delay, boost) through a Fender Super Champ X2 clean channel - gets me about 80% to the sound I'm looking for. What it's missing is the TOUCH dynamics and the FEEL of those tubes!! I'll probably live on the L1 and L2 side, and just run my entire pedalboard in the effects loop. 

Glad I found this forum. There's TONS of useful info here. Thanks to everyone who has shared their experiences, it's been super helpful!

Cheers!

5150 (Joel)


----------



## Snow and Steel

5150 said:


> ...I'm gonna run mine stock (well, aside from the pre-installed Creamback) for the time being...
> Cheers!
> 
> 5150 (Joel)



With the creamback already in it, why change it until you decide you need something different? its pretty well good to go "as-is". Comes stock with Tube Amp Doctor tubes, which are generally good tubes. Sure, you can get better if you want to experiment with things, or dive into NOS tubes - but the stock tubes are very good.

I DO recommend checking and changing the bias though - lower it to something more sane, like 36 per side. out fo the factory arrived.... well, much higher than that lets say.


----------



## 5150

Yeah, I'm not planning on changing anything at all on this - except perhaps bias if it's crazy hot/cold. I knew right away that I loved the Ultra channel from the three hours I demo'd one at GC (with my own guitar), but chose The Sweetwater Creamback upgrade from all the good reviews the Creamback got over the stock Seventy/80.


----------



## BanditPanda

5150 said:


> Yeah, I'm not planning on changing anything at all on this - except perhaps bias if it's crazy hot/cold. I knew right away that I loved the Ultra channel from the three hours I demo'd one at GC (with my own guitar), but chose The Sweetwater Creamback upgrade from all the good reviews the Creamback got over the stock Seventy/80.



Is that a '59 Broom you're playing there?


----------



## 5150

BanditPanda said:


> Is that a '59 Broom you're playing there?


Lol! It's actually not me (it's a young EVH), but yeah, I'd say it's probably a '58 or '59...


----------



## Speegman

Just got my DSL40C with Creamback speaker. I am playing at 20 watts all channels. The general EQ settings seem to work fine but I'm having a hard time noticing any tone changes when I tweak the Presence or Resonance knobs. Increases in the Resonance knob increase the "hum" from the amp and there is a slight change in brightness but it's so subtle I can't tell if it's real or my imagination. Is this normal? I haven't been able to try this at higher volumes yet. The clean tone is great as well as the OD channel.


----------



## ken361

Shouldnt hum might be a preamp tube, the presence you should notice and well as the resonance not huge but its there. if the bias it miss matches one side way higher it can cause a hum or bad power tube.


----------



## Speegman

ken361 said:


> Shouldnt hum might be a preamp tube, the presence you should notice and well as the resonance not huge but its there. if the bias it miss matches one side way higher it can cause a hum or bad power tube.


Thanks - should I try reseating the tubes?


----------



## ken361

I would move them around the preamp tubes that is. Hum at 40 watt?


----------



## Speegman

ken361 said:


> I would move them around the preamp tubes that is. Hum at 40 watt?


The hum is at 20 watts. The hum isn't too bad it increases as you turn up the presence knob. So, when you say move them around are you referring to changing which socket they are in?


----------



## ken361

Speegman said:


> The hum is at 20 watts. The hum isn't too bad it increases as you turn up the presence knob. So, when you say move them around are you referring to changing which socket they are in?


yes


----------



## BanditPanda

Speegman said:


> The hum is at 20 watts. The hum isn't too bad it increases as you turn up the presence knob. So, when you say move them around are you referring to changing which socket they are in?



Wait a minute Speegman...do you know what you're doing on the insides of amps?
You're not a novice are you ?
There is extreme danger fiddling around back there


----------



## Speegman

ken361 said:


> yes


I'll called the store and they are giving me another unit. Thanks for your help.


----------



## Snow and Steel

try it on 40 watts - the "half power" sounds duller and compressed to me.


----------



## Michaeld13

Got around to recording some things demoing a couple of pedals and the red (lead2) and green (clean) channels with those. Hope it's helpful to some! Here is a pic of the amp settings - I didn't change anything between channel switching... Curious which sounds better to your ears?


----------



## Speegman

BanditPanda said:


> Wait a minute Speegman...do you know what you're doing on the insides of amps?
> You're not a novice are you ?
> There is extreme danger fiddling around back there


Yes, I'm a novice but pretty good with motherboards etc. not ready for hig voltage. I'll get the unit replaced and see how that works. I'll pass on electrocution for now!


----------



## Speegman

Snow and Steel said:


> try it on 40 watts - the "half power" sounds duller and compressed to me.


Okay - I'll try that.


----------



## solarburn

Michaeld13 said:


> Got around to recording some things demoing a couple of pedals and the red (lead2) and green (clean) channels with those. Hope it's helpful to some! Here is a pic of the amp settings - I didn't change anything between channel switching... Curious which sounds better to your ears?




That was a great demo. Sounded awesome! I would use any of those tones. Great playing too. Enjoyed all the samples.


----------



## Bownse

Snow and Steel said:


> try it on 40 watts - the "half power" sounds duller and compressed to me.



Conversely, at full power, the volume and gain dials are so sensitive to changes at "home" levels that it's hard to dial in anything without ping ponging between too loud and too quiet.


----------



## BanditPanda

I have always found the Presence and Resonance to be very effective.


----------



## Len

BanditPanda said:


> I have always found the Presence and Resonance to be very effective.


I'm the opposite - I keep both at 9 o'clock .


----------



## BanditPanda

Well Len I think that means you also find them very effective ?


----------



## Speegman

Could someone post audio of presence/resonance at 0 vs 10? This would give me a benchmark to compare.
Thanks!


----------



## Len

BanditPanda said:


> Well Len I think that means you also find them very effective ?


Not really.


----------



## BanditPanda

Len said:


> Not really.



Yes really. At 9 o'clock it means 12 o'clock was too much and at zero it was not enuff thus making the presence and resonance very effective based on as little as quarter turns.
Yup, yes indeed, you're finding the presence and resonance very effective.


----------



## Michaeld13

Thanks SBurn! I read a post somewhere above about 40watt vs 20watt- I've had mine set at 20 this whole time- switched it to 40 and definitely a different sound. Again, I like it!! More cut and brighter. Had to adjust some dials that I had in the 20watt setting- but I think I'm going to leave it in 40 watt for a while. The sound demo I did was in 20 watt-fyi.


----------



## Len

BanditPanda said:


> Yes really. At 9 o'clock it means 12 o'clock was too much and at zero it was not enuff thus making the presence and resonance very effective based on as little as quarter turns.
> Yup, yes indeed, you're finding the presence and resonance very effective.


Wow, thank you for telling me my preference of settings. Now I know that 25% out of 100% means something is really liked and useful. You really do have a skewed concept of things. Let's see your next wise crack of a reply telling me about how I'm all wrong....


----------



## BanditPanda

Lenny bro you're taking it all wrong as if it was something personal against you ! It ain't that.
We're speaking specifically about the effectiveness of the resonance and presence on the DSL4OC right? I am merely pointing out that the quarter turn difference in setting makes a difference in the sound which imo is an indication of their effectiveness. That is not a reflection on you or your preferences what so ever. I merely used your settings as an example of their effectiveness.
Wise crack? No way.


----------



## Speegman

Speegman said:


> Could someone post audio of presence/resonance at 0 vs 10? This would give me a benchmark to compare.
> Thanks!


I got the net amp and I can hear tone changes when I tweak the presence knob - all appears good.
One other question: when going from pentode to tritode the standby switch should be set to "on" correct? The "on" setting is where you hear sound when playing.


----------



## Speegman

Speegman said:


> I got the net amp and I can hear tone changes when I tweak the presence knob - all appears good.
> One other question: when going from pentode to tritode the standby switch should be set to "on" correct? The "on" setting is where you hear sound when playing.


The manual says to be in standby mode when changing between pentode and tritode mode.


----------



## 5150

FedEx showed up with my DSL40CST (w/ Creamback) from Sweetwater this morning. Ho-leeee-shit-bags (pardon my French!) this amp is freaking INSANE!!! 

I'd already demo'd one at GC so I new I loved the Red 1 setting, but this amp with the Creamback really smokes!

I started out in 20W mode, Red gain at 5, all EQ at 5, volume at 1. Within minutes I had volume at 4 (nobody home!) and played that way for a couple hours. Eventually went back down to around 2 in volume to give my ears a bit of a break. 

Then I switched it off, flipped it to 40W, (still at 2 volume), fired it back up and WHOA-nelly! What a sound!!! So much POWER!! Ended up with volume at 4, but pictures on the walls were rattling and I didn't want end up breaking one! LOL!

For a VH-head like myself (got a kick-ass little Van Halen cover band developing at the moment), this thing is absolutely fantastic! I can pretty much nail any era VH - with the proper effects - to a "T" . I haven't been able to get this smug, shit-eating grin off my face all day. The sound of this amp is like freaking crack, too. It's hard to step away from it. So sweet! I can't wait to bury our drummer in the mix with this 

I spent quite a bit of time on the Green channel, too. Sounds fat, clean and - if you will - 70's-ish crunchy, albeit a little dark. I hate to go against the grain here, but I'd say the Red channel is not at all too bright/harsh - it sounds beautifully Marshall-y, but it's the Green channel that's actually a bit too dark/ muffled. I would never do the C19 mod on this thing, but maybe try to find a mod that clears up the Green channel a little bit. I realize that the Creamback isn't as harsh as the Seventy/80, and that's probably got a lot to do with the Red channel response I'm liking.

I ran my pedalboard (based around an MXR 5150 Overdrive) into the Green channel (clean) and it was super muddy compared to the Fender Super Champ X2 that I've been running it through previously (same EQ settings, too). I don't like the sound of the 5150 Overdrive through this amp at all. But, the DSL Red channel sounds almost identical to the 5150 through the Fender - just a thousand times better! Very similar high-end compared to what I'm used to with that other setup. I'm super stoked!

Anyhoo, just thought I'd add my praise of this fine little amp to the pile here. Anyone trying to achieve VH-like tones will be quite pleased with this beast 

Cheers!

5150 (Joel)


----------



## BanditPanda

Speegman said:


> The manual says to be in standby mode when changing between pentode and tritode mode.



Means no sound. The amp is on stand by.


----------



## ken361

5150 said:


> FedEx showed up with my DSL40CST (w/ Creamback) from Sweetwater this morning. Ho-leeee-shit-bags (pardon my French!) this amp is freaking INSANE!!!
> 
> I'd already demo'd one at GC so I new I loved the Red 1 setting, but this amp with the Creamback really smokes!
> 
> I started out in 20W mode, Red gain at 5, all EQ at 5, volume at 1. Within minutes I had volume at 4 (nobody home!) and played that way for a couple hours. Eventually went back down to around 2 in volume to give my ears a bit of a break.
> 
> Then I switched it off, flipped it to 40W, (still at 2 volume), fired it back up and WHOA-nelly! What a sound!!! So much POWER!! Ended up with volume at 4, but pictures on the walls were rattling and I didn't want end up breaking one! LOL!
> 
> For a VH-head like myself (got a kick-ass little Van Halen cover band developing at the moment), this thing is absolutely fantastic! I can pretty much nail any era VH - with the proper effects - to a "T" . I haven't been able to get this smug, shit-eating grin off my face all day. The sound of this amp is like freaking crack, too. It's hard to step away from it. So sweet! I can't wait to bury our drummer in the mix with this
> 
> I spent quite a bit of time on the Green channel, too. Sounds fat, clean and - if you will - 70's-ish crunchy, albeit a little dark. I hate to go against the grain here, but I'd say the Red channel is not at all too bright/harsh - it sounds beautifully Marshall-y, but it's the Green channel that's actually a bit too dark/ muffled. I would never do the C19 mod on this thing, but maybe try to find a mod that clears up the Green channel a little bit. I realize that the Creamback isn't as harsh as the Seventy/80, and that's probably got a lot to do with the Red channel response I'm liking.
> 
> I ran my pedalboard (based around an MXR 5150 Overdrive) into the Green channel (clean) and it was super muddy compared to the Fender Super Champ X2 that I've been running it through previously (same EQ settings, too). I don't like the sound of the 5150 Overdrive through this amp at all. But, the DSL Red channel sounds almost identical to the 5150 through the Fender - just a thousand times better! Very similar high-end compared to what I'm used to with that other setup. I'm super stoked!
> 
> Anyhoo, just thought I'd add my praise of this fine little amp to the pile here. Anyone trying to achieve VH-like tones will be quite pleased with this beast
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> 5150 (Joel)


im sure your more advanced then me on the VH stuff, just got this guitar and I love it! im running a WGS ET65 speaker, thought you might appreciate it


----------



## ken361

BanditPanda said:


> Means no sound. The amp is on stand by.


thats what I thought for a awhile but standy on means the amps on and sound


----------



## Screamin Willie

From the manual:
OUTPUT POWER SELECTION –––––––––––––––––––––
2. PENTODE/TRIODE SWITCH
...
IMPORTANT OPERATIONAL NOTE: Whenever this
switch is used the amp must always be in Standby
mode.


----------



## Speegman

Screamin Willie said:


> From the manual:
> OUTPUT POWER SELECTION –––––––––––––––––––––
> 2. PENTODE/TRIODE SWITCH
> ...
> IMPORTANT OPERATIONAL NOTE: Whenever this
> switch is used the amp must always be in Standby
> mode.


So, I understand this to mean the standby switch is in the "on" position which also means the amp generates sound. But intuitively you would think the amp should be in a state that does not generate sound. I think the standby switch indicators are backward on the amp. Off is really in standby and on is not in standby. Then when the manual says to be in standby mode they really mean to have the switch off. I changed from pentode to tritode with the switch in the "on" position and heard a loud pop. That shouldn't happen. I think Marshall should clarify this crazy implementation of "standby" mode.


----------



## ken361

I would do with no sound IMO


----------



## Bownse

> I spent quite a bit of time on the Green channel, too. Sounds fat, clean and - if you will - 70's-ish crunchy, albeit a little dark. I hate to go against the grain here, but I'd say the Red channel is not at all too bright/harsh - it sounds beautifully Marshall-y, but it's the Green channel that's actually a bit too dark/ muffled. I would never do the C19 mod on this thing, but maybe try to find a mod that clears up the Green channel a little bit. I realize that the Creamback isn't as harsh as the Seventy/80, and that's probably got a lot to do with the Red channel response I'm liking.



A big part of that is the Creamback. When I first got mine, the C19 mod was at the top of my list right after biasing. After I got my Creamback, I recanted that position and have since suggested others try a speaker swap before modding their amp electronics.


----------



## Screamin Willie

Speegman said:


> So, I understand this to mean the standby switch is in the "on" position which also means the amp generates sound. But intuitively you would think the amp should be in a state that does not generate sound. I think the standby switch indicators are backward on the amp. Off is really in standby and on is not in standby. Then when the manual says to be in standby mode they really mean to have the switch off. I changed from pentode to tritode with the switch in the "on" position and heard a loud pop. That shouldn't happen. I think Marshall should clarify this crazy implementation of "standby" mode.



No, absolutely NOT.

standby switch in the off position

"in standby mode" means in standby, as in standing by, as in no sound from amp.

Think about it, you do not want to be switching parts of the power tubes off or on when the power tubes are energized/under load.


----------



## Screamin Willie

Speegman said:


> ... Off is really in standby and on is not in standby. Then when the manual says to be in standby mode they really mean to have the switch off....



Yes


----------



## Screamin Willie

Speegman said:


> ...I think Marshall should clarify this crazy implementation of "standby" mode.



The switch is labeled Standby/OFF. I'm not sure how they could make it any more clear than that.


----------



## 5150

ken361 said:


> im sure your more advanced then me on the VH stuff, just got this guitar and I love it! im running a WGS ET65 speaker, thought you might appreciate it




Nice playing Ken! Tone sounds fabulous, too. What were your settings on that clip?


----------



## 5150

Bownse said:


> A big part of that is the Creamback. When I first got mine, the C19 mod was at the top of my list right after biasing. After I got my Creamback, I recanted that position and have since suggested others try a speaker swap before modding their amp electronics.



100% agree. However, I can see where guys who are using this amp as a rhythm/lead channel switcher would clip C19 as a easy way to even out the EQ difference, but I still think that logic is backwards, and it's actually the Green channel that needs some sort of "de-muddy-ing" mod.

I thought the same way when I demo'd one at GC with the stock Seventy/80 - Red channel sounded great, Green sounded muddy. To cripple the Red channel's high-end for the sake of matching Green's mud makes no sense to me :/


----------



## ken361

5150 said:


> Nice playing Ken! Tone sounds fabulous, too. What were your settings on that clip?


Treb 5, mids 5, bass and resonance 3, pres 3 gain at 6 or 7 thanks appreciate it


----------



## ken361

5150 said:


> 100% agree. However, I can see where guys who are using this amp as a rhythm/lead channel switcher would clip C19 as a easy way to even out the EQ difference, but I still think that logic is backwards, and it's actually the Green channel that needs some sort of "de-muddy-ing" mod.
> 
> I thought the same way when I demo'd one at GC with the stock Seventy/80 - Red channel sounded great, Green sounded muddy. To cripple the Red channel's high-end for the sake of matching Green's mud makes no sense to me :/


greens nicer with a boost pedal


----------



## Dan Kiefert

Hi all. My first post. I got my dsl40c today and gave it a quick run through. So far so good. I bought it on the great reviews it gets around these parts, and I'm a Marshall fan. I have a eminence gb128 to replace the stock speaker. I've only scratched the surface with this lengthy thread. I hope to glean much from this forum as well as share what I may have to offer. I think I'll try the speaker before any other mod. I know it's probably been beat to death, but is the c19 mod as night and day as I'm led to believe. I like the ultra channel for more girth/saturation and would like to vs able to utilize that channel. I also have dirt/boost pedals to push the classic channel. Any tips are greatly appreciated.


----------



## BanditPanda

Hopefully to clarify further if possible.
The writing above the switches as in " Standby " & "Power" really just say here's the Standby Switch and here's the Power Switch.
In both cases the writing above & below the switches themselves refers strictly to the status of the amp. The amp is either On or Off. If the Standby Switch is in Off position it means the Amp is Off and if it is in the On position the Amp is on. Same with the Power Switch lol. On = Amp On or Off = Amp off.


----------



## BanditPanda

Screamin Willie said:


> The switch is labeled Standby/OFF. I'm not sure how they could make it any more clear than that.


Willie..see my post above because you are looking at in in the wrong light.lol


----------



## Bownse

BanditPanda said:


> Willie..see my post above because you are looking at in in the wrong light.lol



I finally sat there looking at the panel to try and absorb the one thing I didn't "grock" on the amp. My conclusion is that the Brits must mount all the light switches 180 degrees from us so down is on and up is off. For some reason it wasn't sinking in and every attempt to flip the switches to where I wanted them wasn't 100% when I wasn't looking. Once I got that through my thick skull I've not bobbled it a bit even when reaching behind me without looking.


----------



## BanditPanda

Way to go Bownse !!


----------



## Dan Kiefert

Is it just me, or is the classic gain channel bassier than the ultra channel? I notice a marked difference in bass response between it and the ultra channel. Perhaps a bit tubby?


----------



## solarburn

Dan Kiefert said:


> Hi all. My first post. I got my dsl40c today and gave it a quick run through. So far so good. I bought it on the great reviews it gets around these parts, and I'm a Marshall fan. I have a eminence gb128 to replace the stock speaker. I've only scratched the surface with this lengthy thread. I hope to glean much from this forum as well as share what I may have to offer. I think I'll try the speaker before any other mod. I know it's probably been beat to death, but is the c19 mod as night and day as I'm led to believe. I like the ultra channel for more girth/saturation and would like to vs able to utilize that channel. I also have dirt/boost pedals to push the classic channel. Any tips are greatly appreciated.



I like that Eminence version of a greenback. I'd do speaker change before circuit mod. Take your time. Get a good baseline tone wise.

Look forward to hearing how that GB128 sounds in it.


----------



## rlowe

Screamin Willie said:


> The switch is labeled Standby/OFF. I'm not sure how they could make it any more clear than that. RLOWE: Almost all of the above does sound a little confusing. Here is a clip off the owners manual: POWER SECTION ––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––– 19. STANDBY SWITCH Controls H.T. or high voltage to the valves, allowing them to attain correct working temperature before playing. NOTE 1: To prolong the life of the valves it is always advisable to switch on the Mains Power Switch (20) about 2 minutes before switching on the Standby (19). NOTE 2: On powering your amp down, the Standby should always be switched off before the Power Switch is. NOTE 3: The standby facility is particularly useful before playing, when changing guitars and between sets as it allows you to keep the valves operating at a functional temperature without any sound being produced. I have used this method methodically for 2 years now and 2 different sets of power tubes have lasted and still going strong. I have read an article somewhere that this standby system is a bit different than other Marshall amps.


----------



## Speegman

BanditPanda said:


> Hopefully to clarify further if possible.
> The writing above the switches as in " Standby " & "Power" really just say here's the Standby Switch and here's the Power Switch.
> In both cases the writing above & below the switches themselves refers strictly to the status of the amp. The amp is either On or Off. If the Standby Switch is in Off position it means the Amp is Off and if it is in the On position the Amp is on. Same with the Power Switch lol. On = Amp On or Off = Amp off.


Ah sweet clarity! Okay this makes perfect sense. Hopefully I didn't damage anything when I switched from pentode to triode under full load. The amp sounds okay so I guess I got lucky.


----------



## Screamin Willie

BanditPanda said:


> Willie..see my post above because you are looking at in in the wrong light.lol


Made sense to me. But, you explained it very well.

The bigger issue here is that the Brits put their switches upside down. LOL


----------



## Micky

Speegman said:


> So, I understand this to mean the standby switch is in the "on" position which also means the amp generates sound. But intuitively you would think the amp should be in a state that does not generate sound. I think the standby switch indicators are backward on the amp. Off is really in standby and on is not in standby. Then when the manual says to be in standby mode they really mean to have the switch off. I changed from pentode to tritode with the switch in the "on" position and heard a loud pop. That shouldn't happen. I think Marshall should clarify this crazy implementation of "standby" mode.


Just think of the Standby switch as the 'hi-voltage' switch.
Also, you will notice that both switches (whatever their orientation...) are in the same relative position in order to make sound.

This isn't a difficult concepts, and has been in place for many years.


----------



## Dan Kiefert

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I like that Eminence version of a greenback. I'd do speaker change before circuit mod. Take your time. Get a good baseline tone wise.
> 
> Look forward to hearing how that GB128 sounds in it.


Thanks solarburn. I will report back today. I have some time today before I go back on graveyards. I appreciate your response. Great avatar by the way.


----------



## solarburn

Dan Kiefert said:


> Thanks solarburn. I will report back today. I have some time today before I go back on graveyards. I appreciate your response. Great avatar by the way.



I just got done with my graveyard shift. Lol

congratz on the new gear.


----------



## Dan Kiefert

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I just got done with my graveyard shift. Lol
> 
> congratz on the new gear.


Thanks man. Ya this is a temporary gig until the economy picks up again. At least I can read the 300+ page dsl40 thread lol


----------



## solarburn

Welcome to the forum by the way.


----------



## Dan Kiefert

So my quick impressions are with two different guitars and pups in each, the classic channel seems bassier/muddier over the ultra channel. The ultra channel seems to respond much better to higher output pups (super distortion) and the classic channel likes lower output (jb) can anyone else confirm these findings?


----------



## ken361

its it DNA  like I said boosting smooths the channel out adds more gain and lessons the bass. Whats your bass and resonance at?


----------



## 5150

Dan Kiefert said:


> Is it just me, or is the classic gain channel bassier than the ultra channel? I notice a marked difference in bass response between it and the ultra channel. Perhaps a bit tubby?



Yes, that's exactly how I hear this amp. Classic gain (green) is way too tubby/bass-y. Ultra (red) is absolutely perfect Marshall goodness. The only mod I would ever consider to this amp would be taming the tubby-ness of the Green channel.

I still can't get over how incredible the Lead 1 channel sounds. My ears are in heaven!


----------



## ken361

using non true bypass pedals or cheap cables will mud it up more!


----------



## Dan Kiefert

Ok good I'm not the only one lol. If the ultra channel was a little more vintage voiced it would be perfect. But I haven't tried my gb128 yet. I'll use classic channel for my strats and a boost will maybe cut the tubbieness. With that DiMarzio on ultra it just rips


----------



## Dan Kiefert

My bass and res are around 2-3. I will try a bass cutting boost after lunch.


----------



## Dan Kiefert

ken361 said:


> using non true bypass pedals or cheap cables will mud it up morehis
> Good cables, no pedals so far.


----------



## Dan Kiefert

ken361 said:


> This guys is a big marshall lover and has some great tones, he likes the mids maxed on his amps. This what made me want to check one out



He's a great guy and loves his Marshalls. That particular video closed the gap between low and higher end guitars.


----------



## ken361

Dan Kiefert said:


> He's a great guy and loves his Marshalls. That pI enarticular video closed the gap between low and higher end guitars.


I ended up getting one its pretty dam good for the money! warm sounding and thick on my red 1 and the crunch channel sounds as good when I had a Trad Gibson Les Paul! Still like to try a diff bridge pup like a Super Distortion


----------



## Dan Kiefert

ken361 said:


> I ended up getting one its pretty dam good for the money! warm sounding and thick on my red 1 and the crunch channel sounds as good when I had a Trad Gibson Les Paul! Still like to try a diff bridge pup like Super Distortion



I have one with a super D in it. Great tone. I made some cosmetic changes and set it up, it plays and sounds great. And I've owed a lot of guitars over 30 years


----------



## solarburn

Dan Kiefert said:


> I have one with a super D in it. Great tone. I made some cosmetic changes and set it up, it plays and sounds great. And I've owed a lot of guitars over 30 years



I use Super D's in mine too.


----------



## Dan Kiefert

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I use Super D's in mine too.


It's one of my favorite pups. I'd like another for my esp. I have a lace hemi in another guitar and its a great pickup too. I like pups with mid hump. Can't stand my JB though. Looking to unload that.


----------



## Dan Kiefert

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I use Super D's in mine too.


Ace Frehley was the reason I started playing guitar and what better live sound than a super d through a cranked plexi.


----------



## solarburn

Dan Kiefert said:


> It's one of my favorite pups. I'd like another for my esp. I have a lace hemi in another guitar and its a great pickup too. I like pups with mid hump. Can't stand my JB though. Looking to unload that.



I had the same experience with a JB.

Man bro we got some things in common ear wise. 

I have the cheaper ESP LTD EC1000 that I put passives in and the SD in the bridge has made it perform quite well. Plenty of clips of it in action. Also have a gold top tele with SD's in both positions. Naughtee Tele for sure.


----------



## solarburn

Dan Kiefert said:


> Ok good I'm not the only one lol. If the ultra channel was a little more vintage voiced it would be perfect. But I haven't tried my gb128 yet. I'll use classic channel for my strats and a boost will maybe cut the tubbieness. With that DiMarzio on ultra it just rips



I run L2 straight in but only have the gain about 3 on the knob. I can go from rolled back clean to hard rock with guitar volume.

I don't do modern metal. Its lost on me.

The key is volume. The more the better but not past the sweet spot.LOL


----------



## Dan Kiefert

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I had the same experience with a JB.
> 
> Man bro we got some things in common ear wise.
> 
> I have the cheaper ESP LTD EC1000 that I put passives in and the SD in the bridge has made it perform quite well. Plenty of clips of it in action. Also have a gold top tele with SD's in both positions. Naughtee Tele for sure.


I think we do have a lot in common. My ec331 was a gift from my wife and its my favorite guitar. I have the lp he with the super d and two strays. I got the Jb and a jazz from a friend as payment for swapping out some pups in his guitar. I like the jazz, but I just can't bond with the jb, even did a mag swap. Oh well. I'll use it to fund another pup. I like everything from classic rock to nwobhm to doom to thrash to blues. I think I'm gonna get another super d for my Ltd or go the other way and maybe something more paf like a Seth lover.


----------



## ken361

Dan Kiefert said:


> Ace Frehley was the reason I started playing guitar and what better live sound than a super d through a cranked plexi.


His les Paul was my favorite at 12 yrs old 1976 almost got the Epi, man I wish I did have the funds


----------



## ken361

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I run L2 straight in but only have the gain about 3 on the knob. I can go from rolled back clean to hard rock with guitar volume.
> 
> I don't do modern metal. Its lost on me.
> 
> The key is volume. The more the better but not past the sweet spot.LOL


just got done playing the EVH on L2 at bedroom man I can fly on it lol


----------



## solarburn

Dan Kiefert said:


> I think we do have a lot in common. My ec331 was a gift from my wife and its my favorite guitar. I have the lp he with the super d and two strays. I got the Jb and a jazz from a friend as payment for swapping out some pups in his guitar. I like the jazz, but I just can't bond with the jb, even did a mag swap. Oh well. I'll use it to fund another pup. I like everything from classic rock to nwobhm to doom to thrash to blues. I think I'm gonna get another super d for my Ltd or go the other way and maybe something more paf like a Seth lover.



It's funny man. I dig it though. I have a 34th Anni neck sitting here I need to put in my EC1000. Right now I have a Paf Joe in the neck. It's ok but doesn't grab me enuff.


----------



## Dan Kiefert

ucnick said:


> FWIW - I used the my DSL40C with my ABB trib band last Fri night - you can check out the C19-modded sound (both stage volume and from the PA) on this YT video my wife shot: The Allman Step Brothers Perform "In Memory Of Elizabeth Reed"/EJ Phairs/Pittsburg CA/031513 - YouTube - I'm the guy with the Les Paul gold-top and tie-dye tshirt, you can see my DSL40C behind me and to my left. It is stock except for the C19 mod, which I found really helped. It sounds pretty danged good even through the little mic on the camera. My solo starts at 6:49, you can really hear it there. I was using it on half-power mode with volume about 10 o'clock, gain at about the same, red channel and with the gain switch set for high gain. No distortion or boost pedals, just a volume pedal - it sounds great with my gold-top, of course! Guys in the band loved it!


That is killer. I am a huge Abb fan and that impressed me. Great tone, man. Cheers!


----------



## AllenK

Just pulled the C19 cap to see if I liked it (just one leg to remove it form the circuit). I have to admit that I'm a little torn. Love what it does to the red lead channel(s). 100% improvement! I never used to even switch over as I really love the green OD channel and for my playing that has plenty of gain for me. It's great though to be able to push in more gain now and then, and this mod definitely makes that a viable option now as far as I'm concerned. I feel like the OD channel has gotten a little muffled though. Even adjusting the EQ, I feel like I can't quite get the same feel as before. Granted its really subtle and if it had always been this way, I'd love it probably. And really if I just kept it as is, I would probably be fine with it. But I'm not sure if I'm just making it up now and hearing a negative change since I was concerned about this channel altering. Maybe its exactly the same and its all in my head.

Anyway, I think I might like to keep my options open and add a switch to take the c19 cap in and out of the circuit. This would be simple enough to do and I have no issues drilling into the face. I have a question and I am sorry if this has been answered, this thread has gotten quite large! Lots of great info but it can be a little hard to weed through. Anyway, I do a lot of tinkering with pedals and have a number of small DPDT switches around so I am thinking of using one here. My question in what would be the proper rating for an application like this? These are rated AC 125v 6A. Would these be OK here?

I also have a large assortment of ceramic capacitors and will probably swap a few in and out before going to a switch. Might find one that splits the difference is a way I'm happy with but if I go the switch route...

Thanks so much the help!


----------



## Super Steve

I just took C19 out and put in a 100pf Polystyrene Capacitor 600v 5%! Wow! What a difference! Exactly what it needed to smooth out the nasty bright highs! Ebay for the cap... http://www.ebay.com/itm/191833194893?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT


----------



## Dan Kiefert

I had a bit of time to put Marsha through some paces today. I boosted the classic channel with a zw44 and that helped clear some mud out of that channel for sure. Killer grind on od channel, nice breakup on clean. Ultra channel is fun but still a bit bright for my liking. I will install my eminence gb128 tomorrow and see how that changes things up. The ultra channel has some great tones in the 1st channel, just a tad bright perhaps a speaker change will tame it a bit. I'll consider the c19 mod after much playing and tweaking. Overall I am stoked I picked this amp up. Glad to be back in the land of Marshall!


----------



## rlowe

ken361 said:


> Think mostly its looks and cosmetics, the pickups helps acorse a nice maple top cost more ect. After you owned both my thoughts has changed some.


And all of those guitarists choose those nice Lp's just for cosmetic purposes, and where do you see recording artists playing EPI special II's? lol my ass! And John Segeborn never said the EPI's were better than the Gibson LP line.


----------



## solarburn

Dan Kiefert said:


> I had a bit of time to put Marsha through some paces today. I boosted the classic channel with a zw44 and that helped clear some mud out of that channel for sure. Killer grind on od channel, nice breakup on clean. Ultra channel is fun but still a bit bright for my liking. I will install my eminence gb128 tomorrow and see how that changes things up. The ultra channel has some great tones in the 1st channel, just a tad bright perhaps a speaker change will tame it a bit. I'll consider the c19 mod after much playing and tweaking. Overall I am stoked I picked this amp up. Glad to be back in the land of Marshall!



Dan have you tried the ultra L2 voicing with gain low? I hardly ever use L1 anymore. I find on L2 with gain around 3 on the knob I can get anywhere from clean to hard rock with just guitar volume adjustments. To me its warmer and more open sounding. Plus I can use the same amp EQ on the green channel using my fav OD boost pedals.

Using L1 doesn't work across both channels as readily. Having said that L1 has some great tones in it.

Can't wait to hear how the speaker change goes.


----------



## ken361

rlowe said:


> And all of those guitarists choose those nice Lp's just for cosmetic purposes, and where do you see recording artists playing EPI special II's? lol my ass! And John Segeborn never said the EPI's were better than the Gibson LP line.


i know he didnt


----------



## ken361

quit biasing them so hot maybe ya like the red more, changing the speaker def helps. I noticed even with the presence and resonance off I get good tones


----------



## Jimmyohio75

Quick question for you guys with the Creamback speaker in your amps. Do you ever experience looseness or flubbiness when you are on the red channel (1) at high volumes on the full power mode? I have only had cabs and amps with Vintage 30's and I have never had this issue before. Granted I have played mostly Orange amps (Dual Terror and Rocker 30). I would appreciate your feedback and any suggestions on how to cure this issue.


----------



## ken361

how high is the gain, bass, resonance


----------



## ken361

For shits and giggles, the Gibson has a WGS British Lead speaker stock bias not sure what it was Thoughts? it was recorded a while back

The new Epi Tungsol power tubes at 30ma WGS ET 65 which I like better


----------



## Jimmyohio75

ken361 said:


> how high is the gain, bass, resonance


Gain is at 3, bass at 4, resonance at 2


----------



## Bownse

Jimmyohio75 said:


> Quick question for you guys with the Creamback speaker in your amps. Do you ever experience looseness or flubbiness when you are on the red channel (1) at high volumes on the full power mode? I have only had cabs and amps with Vintage 30's and I have never had this issue before. Granted I have played mostly Orange amps (Dual Terror and Rocker 30). I would appreciate your feedback and any suggestions on how to cure this issue.



I got some flub when my 75watter was new. I rolled back the bass and haven't run into it since.

Since moving into a separate head/2x12 cab it's never been an issue.


----------



## SteelLucky

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Dan have you tried the ultra L2 voicing with gain low? I hardly ever use L1 anymore. I find on L2 with gain around 3 on the knob I can get anywhere from clean to hard rock with just guitar volume adjustments. To me its warmer and more open sounding. Plus I can use the same amp EQ on the green channel using my fav OD boost pedals.



I tried this the other night. SolarBurn is on to something.... I recommend trying his settings.

I also run an OD-1X into the clean and crunch channel. I really like that pedal boosting this amp. Non stock tubes and a v-type speaker are my only mods.


----------



## rlowe

ken361 said:


> i know he didnt


Don't get this wrong, the statement was meant to be factual; not facetious.


----------



## ken361

SteelLucky said:


> I tried this the other night. SolarBurn is on to something.... I recommend trying his settings.
> 
> I also run an OD-1X into the clean and crunch channel. I really like that pedal boosting this amp. Non stock tubes and a v-type speaker are my only mods.


I still find I could use a little more boost too, maybe a EP boost also a chorus this guy on Mikes Music had awesome VH tone using one


----------



## Dan Kiefert

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Dan have you tried the ultra L2 voicing with gain low? I hardly ever use L1 anymore. I find on L2 with gain around 3 on the knob I can get anywhere from clean to hard rock with just guitar volume adjustments. To me its warmer and more open sounding. Plus I can use the same amp EQ on the green channel using my fav OD boost pedals.
> 
> Using L1 doesn't work across both channels as readily. Having said that L1 has some great tones in it.
> 
> Can't wait to hear how the speaker change goes.



Yes I've found some great tones in ultra 1. This amp is so versatile I'm kind of overwhelmed with all the tones I'm finding. Its a shame the classic and ultra are so different in eq and having to re-eq all the time. I can see myself spending more time on the ultra channel as a result.


----------



## Dan Kiefert

Having owned a jcm 800 back in the bad old days and since then owned mesa, Orange, fender, h&k and Traynor, I can say, for the money, the dsl40c is a stellar amp. It has THAT sound I've been chasing since my 800 days. Of course there are caveats with this amp, all amps have their issues. But considering the price point and modability of the amp it's insanely good. Mine is still bone stock and just playing a few notes the other day reminded me of why I love the Marshall sound. The glory days of Marshall are gone but that doesn't mean a decent amp can't be had from them. I'm happy as the first time I played a big e chord on my first Marshall. 

I'm still plowing my way through this thread, thanks to all for your insights and contributions to this thread. It's invaluable.


----------



## Super Steve

Dan Kiefert said:


> I had a bit of time to put Marsha through some paces today. I boosted the classic channel with a zw44 and that helped clear some mud out of that channel for sure. Killer grind on od channel, nice breakup on clean. Ultra channel is fun but still a bit bright for my liking. I will install my eminence gb128 tomorrow and see how that changes things up. The ultra channel has some great tones in the 1st channel, just a tad bright perhaps a speaker change will tame it a bit. I'll consider the c19 mod after much playing and tweaking. Overall I am stoked I picked this amp up. Glad to be back in the land of Marshall!


Put the 100pf cap in C19... It takes the harsh edge off. I paid 8 bucks for 2 caps on eBay.


----------



## Dan Kiefert

Super Steve said:


> Put the 100pf cap in C19... It takes the harsh edge off. I paid 8 bucks for 2 caps on eBay.


My soldering skills on stuff like that are less than stellar. I ruined a pedal that way.


----------



## 5150

So we're auditioning a couple of different singers in the next couple of days, and I'm really excited to see how this amp performs 

We're a putting together a Van Halen tribute band, and so far Lead 1 has struck me as absolutely "the one" for Van Halen-esque tones. On L1 (Gain on 6/7, all EQ on 5 - or to taste), the clean-like response and dynamics are absolutely perfect for earlier Van Halen tones, and when slightly boosted (I'm using the 5150 Overdrive, volume-12:00, gain-9:00, EQ to taste) you can dial in later, more saturated tones. L2 is just way too tubby, even with EQ adjustment - just like the Classic Gain channel - for anything remotely VH-like, imho.

I'm just adding this info to the thread for anyone looking at this amp specifically for Van Halen sounds, and imho, L1 is ABSOLUTELY where it's at!!

(Make sure to get the one with the Celestion 65W Creamback from Sweetwater, though!)



Cheers!

5150 (Joel)

P.S. - Guitars used: EVH Wolfgang USA Stealth, Custom Fender Strat w/ Seymour Duncan Custom SH-5 Bridge Humbucker, '95 Epiphone Les Paul w/ stock pickups


----------



## ken361

5150 said:


> So we're auditioning a couple of different singers in the next couple of days, and I'm really excited to see how this amp performs
> 
> We're a putting together a Van Halen tribute band, and so far Lead 1 has struck me as absolutely "the one" for Van Halen-esque tones. On L1 (Gain on 6/7, all EQ on 5 - or to taste), the clean-like response and dynamics are absolutely perfect for earlier Van Halen tones, and when slightly boosted (I'm using the 5150 Overdrive, volume-12:00, gain-9:00, EQ to taste) you can dial in later, more saturated tones. L2 is just way too tubby, even with EQ adjustment - just like the Classic Gain channel - for anything remotely VH-like, imho.
> 
> I'm just adding this info to the thread for anyone looking at this amp specifically for Van Halen sounds, and imho, L1 is ABSOLUTELY where it's at!!
> 
> (Make sure to get the one with the Celestion 65W Creamback from Sweetwater, though!)
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> 5150 (Joel)
> 
> P.S. - Guitars used: EVH Wolfgang USA Stealth, Custom Fender Strat w/ Seymour Duncan Custom SH-5 Bridge Humbucker, '95 Epiphone Les Paul w/ stock pickups


I like L 1 for the VH also,like to hear your demo soon I did try that pedal at GC through a half stack on the DSL on the cleans it was awesome.


----------



## Dan Kiefert

Starting tomorrow I finally have two days off. I'm gonna monkey a bit more and give ultra 2 a go and see what kinds of tones I get out of it. Then I will be installing my eminence gb128. I'm sure I'll have to readjust everything a bit after that but so far I love this amp. It definitely smooths out with more volume. I'm using my zw 44 as a boost which helps tighten up the classic channel and get rid of some of the mud I perceive in that channel. I also use the zw44 on the ultra 1 channel to tighten everything as well as give a bit of a mid bump. The midrange on this amp is everything I hear in my head. I look forward to a couple days off loud fun and perhaps a bit of tube rolling as well as I have some other 12ax7s kicking around. 
Cheers!


----------



## Dan Kiefert

Frustration...
So I installed the gb128. Didn't like it at all. Seemed to scoop the mids a bit and magnified the freq I don't like in the amp. Tried a couple tube rolls in v1 v2 that didn't help. I put everything back to stock and its ok. Not great just ok. I ordered the gb128 thinking it would improve my Traynor but again it just magnified the stuff I didn't like about the amp. 
Convince me not to cut the c19. I'm at that point now. I overall I like the dsl40c but there are some things that bug me. The fizzyness of the dirt and the weird upper mid spike. Should I consider a different speaker? I hate V30a so that's out. Can the harshness really be tamed with clipping c19? I'm frustrated. I don't wanna throw the baby out with the bath water but I need some help here.


----------



## ken361

I liked the GB 128 in a blues deluxe it tamed the stock bright speaker, I like my WGS ET65 its supposed to be like a worn celestion GT12 65 think thats the name greenback type. I would bias it at 30ma put the stock back in for now and see if you like it. Was the 128 broken in and what preamp tubes are in there


----------



## ken361

ken361 said:


> I liked the GB 128 in a blues deluxe it tamed the stock bright speaker, I like my WGS ET65 its supposed to be like a worn celestion GT12 65 think thats the name greenback type. I would bias it at 30ma put the stock back in for now and see if you like it. Was the 128 broken in and what preamp tubes are in there


Are you playing loud at 4 on the red? thats the sweet spot IMO, I just got done blasting and stuck a RFT in the v2


----------



## Dan Kiefert

ken361 said:


> I liked the GB 128 in a blues deluxe it tamed the stock bright speaker, I like my WGS ET65 its supposed to be like a worn celestion GT12 65 think thats the name greenback type. I would bias it at 30ma put the stock back in for now and see if you like it. Was the 128 broken in and what preamp tubes are in there


Stock tubes. I don't have a multi meter to set the bias.


----------



## Dan Kiefert

ken361 said:


> Are you playing loud at 4 on the red? thats the sweet spot IMO, I just got done blasting and stuck a RFT in the v2


4 and up on the red channel.


----------



## Dan Kiefert

I'm gonna have to wait on buying another speaker as I picked up the gb128 this month.


----------



## ken361

Your bias could be all over the map prb way too high! that will cause harshness. Stock preamp tubes are kinda dull IMO and the stock speaker can be pretty bright too


----------



## ken361

Dan Kiefert said:


> I'm gonna have to wait on buying another speaker as I picked up the gb128 this month.


have 40hrs on it?


----------



## Dan Kiefert

ken361 said:


> have 40hrs on it?


No. A couple at most.


----------



## Dan Kiefert

The other tubes I have are Ehx 12ax7 gold pin, in 12ax7, groove tube 12au7.


----------



## ken361

Dan Kiefert said:


> No. A couple at most.


ya you need a lot more then that ! I think you will like it my old blues deluxe the gain channel wasnt even usable then I put a used GB128 and it improved it real nice! so blast it and break that thing in


----------



## ken361

Dan Kiefert said:


> The other tubes I have are Ehx 12ax7 gold pin, in 12ax7, groove tube 12au7.


EH are decent I would try that for a v1 for now


----------



## Dan Kiefert

ken361 said:


> ya you need a lot more then that ! I think you will like it my old blues deluxe the gain channel wasnt even usable then I put a used GB128 and it improved it real nice! so blast it and break that thing in


The gb128 sounded worse than the stock celestion. Maybe it's more voiced for fender type amps? I dunno. One thing I noticed when I turned it off standby and was strumming waiting for it to warm up it was less harsh when not completely warm as opposed to when it warmed up. If that makes any sense?


----------



## Screamin Willie

Dan Kiefert said:


> ... when I turned it off standby and was strumming waiting for it to warm up ...



What does this mean, exactly?


----------



## Dan Kiefert

Screamin Willie said:


> What does this mean, exactly?


Basically when I turned the amp on. When it's not quite up to full running power and I strummed a chord and it was much less strident or fizzy than when it was warmed up and at full power?


----------



## solarburn

Dan Kiefert said:


> The gb128 sounded worse than the stock celestion. Maybe it's more voiced for fender type amps? I dunno. One thing I noticed when I turned it off standby and was strumming waiting for it to warm up it was less harsh when not completely warm as opposed to when it warmed up. If that makes any sense?



No it's britished voiced being a GB like speaker. Is it 16 ohm?


----------



## solarburn

If it scoops mids I wouldn't like that either. Is there a frequency graph on i


----------



## rlowe

Dan Kiefert said:


> Frustration...
> So I installed the gb128. Didn't like it at all. Seemed to scoop the mids a bit and magnified the freq I don't like in the amp. Tried a couple tube rolls in v1 v2 that didn't help. I put everything back to stock and its ok. Not great just ok. I ordered the gb128 thinking it would improve my Traynor but again it just magnified the stuff I didn't like about the amp.
> Convince me not to cut the c19. I'm at that point now. I overall I like the dsl40c but there are some things that bug me. The fizzyness of the dirt and the weird upper mid spike. Should I consider a different speaker? I hate V30a so that's out. Can the harshness really be tamed with clipping c19? I'm frustrated. I don't wanna throw the baby out with the bath water but I need some help here.


When I purchased my dsl40c 2 years ago, it was all stock and sounded good but shrill, ear piercing at times. Over time, maybe 4-5 months the speaker was breaking in and sounding better. At this point I tried new preamp tubes; Dougs tubes preselected tubes for the 40c (richer, fuller). I also tried JJ e34l's, not el34 power tubes which are punchier and more aggressive. A speaker change can help, and make sure you check the bias because at factory my bias was around 54.0 aprx. both tubes. This combined with experimenting over time, and many variant pedals has given me a variety of sound. Maybe try closing off the back of cab; not the upper tube area as the tubes need to vent. This gives a deeper sound etc.


----------



## solarburn

Yeah Dan definitely learn to bias it. Get a cheap MM. It will work fine. Make sure you know how though.

Funny thing with mine is it came stock biased at 36 MV. After going from 33mv to 38mv I settled at 36mv. How it was in the beginning.

I have the stock power tubes in mine and changed V1 & V2 to get where I want for now. I have a shit load of tubes to play with. Most don't.

Keep tuning it. It will pay off. A speaker takes time to smooth out from being harsh or even brittle/stiff. Break in makes a big difference.


----------



## Dan Kiefert

Had anyone else done the c4 clip mod? Does it help clean up the classic channel? Any other cap mods? There seems to be quite a few. Any census?


----------



## Bownse

I did c19 by lifting a leg off the board (reversible). I found that I got better results from a speaker swap.


----------



## Michaeld13

Can you all take a look at my multimeter pic? From what I can tell it should be set where it is... "DCV 200m" - I finally got the clips to attach to the test points, so I'm ready to go to check mine this weekend- just want to make sure it's set correctly before I begin. Any insight would be appreciated! This is the Habor Freight meter that I think many might have- it's a freebie with coupons if you are familiar with them...


----------



## Michaeld13

Also I want to hear more about the VH cover band! That has got to be a challenge in so many ways!!! Huge VH fan over here. Been trying to learn as much from Mr. Edward as possible. He has such a magic touch.


----------



## 5150

Hot damn! This little amp smokes! Two nights of rehearsal, auditioning a couple of singers. First night I ran in 20w mode, volume 4-5, gain 6-7, treble at 4 and all other EQ at 5. Sounded great! Next night, ran it in 40w mode, volume 3-4, all other settings the same. Sounded freaking AMAZING!!!

40w mode at a decent volume is definitely where this amp shines! So much growly, punchy power and that beautiful, creamy, top-end Marshall sizzle! I am absolutely in love with this amp! Van Halen never sounded so good coming out of my guitars. Again, I'm running Red channel, Lead 1 and it complete NAILS the Van Halen tone (obviously with the right guitar)! So responsive and tight, plenty of sustain (with gain around 6-7), yet clear and defined note separation on chords. I can't believe how good this amp is! 

Almost too good to be true... 

Cheers!

5150 (Joel)


----------



## 5150

Michaeld13 said:


> Also I want to hear more about the VH cover band! That has got to be a challenge in so many ways!!! Huge VH fan over here. Been trying to learn as much from Mr. Edward as possible. He has such a magic touch.



Not sure if this was directed at me, but I'll put in my $.02...

It is definitely a massive challenge for all members of the band, because Van Halen is comprised of insanely talented musicians who practically grew up playing music together, so they're so incredibly tight. Add to that, either DLR or Hagar vocals, and it's pretty much a seemingly impossible venture.

However...

As a guitar player I am more obsessed with capturing Ed's feeling than I am on note-for-note regurgitations of his songs. Don't get me wrong, I also want to get the notes and timing as close as possible, - as impossibly hard as that is - but in Ed's own words: "if it sounds good, then it is good!"  Our bass player is completely obsessed with Michael Anthony, and our drummer - although not hugely influenced by AVH - is a real solid player, and it all just really seems to work well. We're still looking for the right singer because, lets face it, this shit ain't easy for anyone to pull off - but ESPECIALLY vocally. Given all that, we're not striving for perfection, we just want to have fun blasting out some kick-ass VH for people!

Last night the singer we were auditioning complimented me on my guitar sound ( thanks, DSL40C!!), and my playing - which really felt good considering how much time I've spent agonizing over this stuff... lol! He just kept saying "you guys are fantastic, this sounds fantastic". We're not fishing for compliments or anything, but we were all quite flattered. That still doesn't guarantee him the job, though lol!!

We're still in the infancy stage with this project, and have quite a way to go before we're out there gigging, but at some point I'll try to get some audio or video up for you guys to check out. Not promising anything though 

Anyhoo, I don't want to get too far off topic here. I'll definitely try to post some samples of the DSL40c kicking out some VH-ish tones soon... 

Cheers!

5150 (Joel)


----------



## BanditPanda

5150 said:


> Not sure if this was directed at me, but I'll put in my $.02...
> 
> That still doesn't guarantee him the job, though lol!!
> 
> 
> Hey Joel...gotta give the guy auditioning some due credit just for showing up. Ya can't fake that DLR shaite so he must've had something going on or he is completely delusional !! lol
> Look forward to the clips somewhere down the road.
> BP


----------



## jeffb

I finally got around to doing the C19 mod. I know not everyone likes removing it/putting a different value in, but for me it was a "Why The heck did I not do this 18 months ago?" moment. 

Red 1 now completely takes care of the EQ/voicing issues I have had with Green crunch. Much better matchup for my speakers/cab and guitars/pickups. Reverb on channel two also sounds much better/clearer/more pronounced.

But the thing that surprised me most is the Red channel became MUCH less hissy and noisy. Before when I switched from Green to Red,the hiss on the Red channel was like I kicked on 4 separate chorus pedals and it would usually howl/feedback (in a bad way). Now Red is right there with the Green channel for (lack of) noise.FWIW, I run the master generally at noon, so it's pushing some air and (2x G12M) speakers.


----------



## ken361

jeffb said:


> I finally got around to doing the C19 mod. I know not everyone likes removing it/putting a different value in, but for me it was a "Why The heck did I not do this 18 months ago?" moment.
> 
> Red 1 now completely takes care of the EQ/voicing issues I have had with Green crunch. Much better matchup for my speakers/cab and guitars/pickups. Reverb on channel two also sounds much better/clearer/more pronounced.
> 
> But the thing that surprised me most is the Red channel became MUCH less hissy and noisy. Before when I switched from Green to Red,the hiss on the Red channel was like I kicked on 4 separate chorus pedals and it would usually howl/feedback (in a bad way). Now Red is right there with the Green channel for (lack of) noise.FWIW, I run the master generally at noon, so it's pushing some air and (2x G12M) speakers.


So at loud volume you can tell huh? dont know why some say its only in the circuit at low volumes


----------



## MarshallDog

Dan Kiefert said:


> Frustration...
> So I installed the gb128. Didn't like it at all. Seemed to scoop the mids a bit and magnified the freq I don't like in the amp. Tried a couple tube rolls in v1 v2 that didn't help. I put everything back to stock and its ok. Not great just ok. I ordered the gb128 thinking it would improve my Traynor but again it just magnified the stuff I didn't like about the amp.
> Convince me not to cut the c19. I'm at that point now. I overall I like the dsl40c but there are some things that bug me. The fizzyness of the dirt and the weird upper mid spike. Should I consider a different speaker? I hate V30a so that's out. Can the harshness really be tamed with clipping c19? I'm frustrated. I don't wanna throw the baby out with the bath water but I need some help here.



Go for the G12m-65 Creamback and get rid of C19. Cut the leads off as long as possible so you can always solder on a smaller value incase 0 pF is too low and you want to try something just a tad higer.


----------



## MarshallDog

jeffb said:


> I finally got around to doing the C19 mod. I know not everyone likes removing it/putting a different value in, but for me it was a "Why The heck did I not do this 18 months ago?" moment.
> 
> Red 1 now completely takes care of the EQ/voicing issues I have had with Green crunch. Much better matchup for my speakers/cab and guitars/pickups. Reverb on channel two also sounds much better/clearer/more pronounced.
> 
> But the thing that surprised me most is the Red channel became MUCH less hissy and noisy. Before when I switched from Green to Red,the hiss on the Red channel was like I kicked on 4 separate chorus pedals and it would usually howl/feedback (in a bad way). Now Red is right there with the Green channel for (lack of) noise.FWIW, I run the master generally at noon, so it's pushing some air and (2x G12M) speakers.



Thats all it takes with this amp...glad you like it.


----------



## jeffb

ken361 said:


> So at loud volume you can tell huh? dont know why some say its only in the circuit at low volumes



I can hear a significant difference before and after the mod at up to 1 oclock-ish on the mv. If its out of the circuit it's at volumes higher than that. Ive only had the amp up at 2 oclock or higher when I was testing attenuators and I never bothered with the red channel because it would feedback/howl when pushed that hard with my setup.

It's like I got a new amp, AFAIC.


----------



## ken361

red 1 at 4 is plenty loud. Green I would go as 2 to 3 o clock and thats pretty dam loud lol


----------



## jeffb

I am also running mine through a 2x12 EVH cab, not the combo cab. Much more thumpy.


----------



## Michaeld13

5150 said:


> Not sure if this was directed at me, but I'll put in my $.02...
> 
> It is definitely a massive challenge for all members of the band, because Van Halen is comprised of insanely talented musicians who practically grew up playing music together, so they're so incredibly tight. Add to that, either DLR or Hagar vocals, and it's pretty much a seemingly impossible venture.
> 
> However...
> 
> As a guitar player I am more obsessed with capturing Ed's feeling than I am on note-for-note regurgitations of his songs. Don't get me wrong, I also want to get the notes and timing as close as possible, - as impossibly hard as that is - but in Ed's own words: "if it sounds good, then it is good!"  Our bass player is completely obsessed with Michael Anthony, and our drummer - although not hugely influenced by AVH - is a real solid player, and it all just really seems to work well. We're still looking for the right singer because, lets face it, this shit ain't easy for anyone to pull off - but ESPECIALLY vocally. Given all that, we're not striving for perfection, we just want to have fun blasting out some kick-ass VH for people!
> 
> Last night the singer we were auditioning complimented me on my guitar sound ( thanks, DSL40C!!), and my playing - which really felt good considering how much time I've spent agonizing over this stuff... lol! He just kept saying "you guys are fantastic, this sounds fantastic". We're not fishing for compliments or anything, but we were all quite flattered. That still doesn't guarantee him the job, though lol!!
> 
> We're still in the infancy stage with this project, and have quite a way to go before we're out there gigging, but at some point I'll try to get some audio or video up for you guys to check out. Not promising anything though
> 
> Anyhoo, I don't want to get too far off topic here. I'll definitely try to post some samples of the DSL40c kicking out some VH-ish tones soon...
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> 5150 (Joel)


No doubt that has to be a super hard challenge but has to be so much fun! I wish I was in your shoes trying to pull it off. I just found out I have been playing Hot For Teacher intro wrong for like forever. Now it's even harder :-0 !!! I thin you said you have the 5150 pedal? If so have you tried that on the clean channel?


----------



## Michaeld13

Michaeld13 said:


> Can you all take a look at my multimeter pic? From what I can tell it should be set where it is... "DCV 200m" - I finally got the clips to attach to the test points, so I'm ready to go to check mine this weekend- just want to make sure it's set correctly before I begin. Any insight would be appreciated! This is the Habor Freight meter that I think many might have- it's a freebie with coupons if you are familiar with them...



Just to update this- 200m was definitely the right setting (verified in the amp bias vid on youtube as well) and the meter I showed worked great. Also my amp was spot on at 37m on both test points! So good to go


----------



## ken361

still high though lower it and see if the red warms up some


----------



## Michaeld13

ken361 said:


> still high though lower it and see if the red warms up some



I thought that was an ideal number. What would you suggest? I can't recall what ranges owners found they liked. I think Solarburn is around that number on his.


----------



## EricDunno

Hey guys!

I've posted here before, although I usually read your stuff and don't really comment at all... I'm not trying to be the guy who asks what has alredy been answered, however, I'd really love to know what is the most essential thing to be warned about when capping the C19.

I'm 22 and I've never had any experience with these kinda stuff but I usually spend my days finding more information about the dsl40c (it's been a year today since I got it! ) and to read all these mods and bias you guys do and not be able to do it --- it's like having Carmen Electra in my room and tell her to sleep on the couch.

Therefore, I'd love to open it and give it a try, thing is: I read so many times that the circuit contains lethal amounts of charged electricity and that the unexperienced people should handle it to a tech that I thought I could ask you guys what are the most essential parts to be care about, I mean, we DO have to grab it somewhere right?

Here in Portugal, I'm not aware of many guitar amp techs and this shrillness is killing my ears.
"Help me Obi-wan Kenobi, you're my only Hope".


----------



## Straydog

In my DSL40C I hated the stock speaker and changed it to a Creamback. Though it was better something was still missing. I thought about the c-19 mod but didn't want to be clipping things so I changed the speaker again. This time to a Mesa Boogie Black Shadow. At first it sounded pretty darn good. But as time went by something was still amiss. I went to Craigslist and found a "homemade" 1x12 cabinet with a Carvin 16 ohm 100w speaker. Running the cabinet with the internal Black Shadow is a great combination! They should make a DSL 40c with TWO 12 inchers! I can only imagine what it would sound like with a really well made cabinet with a great speaker in it! Maybe someday I will find out...LOL


----------



## solarburn

Michaeld13 said:


> I thought that was an ideal number. What would you suggest? I can't recall what ranges owners found they liked. I think Solarburn is around that number on his.



I run mine at 36mv. I have gone from 33mv to 38mv and found I liked as much as I could tell across all voicings 36mv did it with the stock 34's. Which is where the bias was originally. Happy accident by Marshall.LOL

Put it where your ears like it most. Too high the power tubes will red plate. Too low and it gets stiff and brittle but won't blow glass and resistor's like running it too hot. Stay under 40mv.


----------



## Michaeld13

Hmmm does one or two MV one way or another make an audible difference? I've never experimented with bias before. I assume you have it on and opened up tweak and play tweak and play...?


----------



## ken361

I have one of the best tech's in Michigan he works on everybodys amps and always recommended!! He biased mine at 30 I was what?? He said leave it there you don't need it any higher. its all pretty much preamp distortion. Going higher like 37 just burns tubes , creates more heat in the chassis and causes more problems that keeps him in business!

He put the amp on a scope so you an see how the distortion is reacting so you wont have cross over distortion! When I got the back and was still using a Stratocaster at the time I did have humbuckers a few months before that and put a newer speaker same brand though it sounded pretty much the same as the higher bias setting so I left it

Now I'm back with humbuckers with 20 hrs on the speaker the amp has more low end and warmth then before! Little more sag also! Still breaking up as good with the lower bias! Seems more ballsy too. Not as bright and I'm using less bass on 2 humbucker guitars. Look up Dean Zink and ask him your self maybe he can explain it better. High bias is more brittle on our amps and some others not all!!!


----------



## Michaeld13

Thanks Ken! That's interesting. I'll give it a go and report back.


----------



## ken361

I'm interested! I didn't go back and forth to listen to high and low settings but I like what I'm hearing now


----------



## Bownse

Straydog said:


> They should make a DSL 40c with TWO 12 inchers! I can only imagine what it would sound like with a really well made cabinet with a great speaker in it! Maybe someday I will find out...LOL



Sounds pretty sweet!


----------



## thebowl

I finally got aeround to trying to bias my DSL 40C, which I have owned for a couple of years. Purchased lightly used, and I have a JBL D120F in it. I had trouble getting any reading from either post, to the point that I went out and got a new multi-meter, thinking that there must be a problem with mine. Eventually, I got readings from the right post, at around 25-26, which I moved up to 38. My problem is, I can't get any reading at all from the left post; nothing. Has anyone encountered this problem? Is there any fix apart frrom taking the board up and checking the connection on the bottom? I obviously want to get them matched up. Thanks!


----------



## solarburn

I've found too hot a bias sounds harsh and muddy.


----------



## solarburn

Michaeld13 said:


> Hmmm does one or two MV one way or another make an audible difference? I've never experimented with bias before. I assume you have it on and opened up tweak and play tweak and play...?



I use to set bias at idle and then play it with my DSL50 head. Got to know it very well. Back and forth. Learned how bias can change tone and feel.

With the DSL40 I just set where my ears like it and where I feel best response is. My bias may change using different power tubes. But I know where the zone is. As long as my ears dig it and tactile response is good I don't mess with it after that. I do check it periodically for bias drift. Tubes can be inconsistent new or not.


----------



## ken361

thebowl said:


> I finally got aeround to trying to bias my DSL 40C, which I have owned for a couple of years. Purchased lightly used, and I have a JBL D120F in it. I had trouble getting any reading from either post, to the point that I went out and got a new multi-meter, thinking that there must be a problem with mine. Eventually, I got readings from the right post, at around 25-26, which I moved up to 38. My problem is, I can't get any reading at all from the left post; nothing. Has anyone encountered this problem? Is there any fix apart frrom taking the board up and checking the connection on the bottom? I obviously want to get them matched up. Thanks!


Could be a bad tube I'm not sure, I did have one that caused a hum I could not bias it pass 24 so I trashed it


----------



## thebowl

ken361 said:


> Could be a bad tube I'm not sure, I did have one that caused a hum I could not bias it pass 24 so I trashed it



Thanks. I didn't even consider the tube, because I can't get any reading at all. I am dealing with static that increases as the amp heats up. I guess I'm off to the Tube Store.


----------



## Micky

thebowl said:


> Thanks. I didn't even consider the tube, because I can't get any reading at all. I am dealing with static that increases as the amp heats up. I guess I'm off to the Tube Store.


You should always have a spare set of tubes. This is one of the basic parts of maintaining your amp. I know people laugh at me when I always suggest putting in your spare set, but it is the SINGLE most important part of making your tube amp last virtually forever. Even if you NEVER have to use them, it is money well spent.

With new power tubes you will be amazed at how great your amp will sound...


----------



## ken361

thebowl said:


> Thanks. I didn't even consider the tube, because I can't get any reading at all. I am dealing with static that increases as the amp heats up. I guess I'm off to the Tube Store.


yeah static is usually the tubes or dirty sockets


----------



## thebowl

I have two matched pairs on the way. A Set of new Mullards and a set of Preferred Series. I will update when I get them in.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Wow this thread is still going strong!! Been a while for me just picked up another brand new DSL40 and it feels good to be playing it again!! I picked up a SG Faded a few months ago and man it sounds real nice into the Marshall, I will get to break the speaker in tomorrow night with my band... can't wait


----------



## ken361

J.LaGrassa said:


> Wow this thread is still going strong!! Been a while for me just picked up another brand new DSL40 and it feels good to be playing it again!! I picked up a SG Faded a few months ago and man it sounds real nice into the Marshall, I will get to break the speaker in tomorrow night with my band... can't wait


we chatted on TGP a few times, get rid of the fender? welcome back you always had some good tones.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

ken361 said:


> we chatted on TGP a few times, get rid of the fender? welcome back you always had some good tones.




Yeah the Fender is long gone, the little amp with pedals just wasnt cutting it anymore... finally smartened up and grabbed a Marshall. It was instant gratification right out of the box.


----------



## whitecloud

I am wanting to go ahead and check the Plate voltage and bias of my DSL40c. I've seen the video and read about this here problem is my DVM only goes to 500v instead of 600 like I see in the video. I have the 200v option in the range selector so adjusting the bias is cool so I ask can I get away with selecting 500 to check the Plate voltage or have to buy another DVM?


----------



## Micky

whitecloud said:


> I am wanting to go ahead and check the Plate voltage and bias of my DSL40c. I've seen the video and read about this here problem is my DVM only goes to 500v instead of 600 like I see in the video. I have the 200v option in the range selector so adjusting the bias is cool so I ask can I get away with selecting 500 to check the Plate voltage or have to buy another DVM?


Yes, voltage should be in the 450-475 VDC range...


----------



## thebowl

Well, I may have been right that the power tubes weren't the problem. I installed a set of new Mullards and, same as before, got no reading from the left post. Zero. The right post measured fine, and the left bias pot worked just fine. I finally noticed something that I should have noticed earlier, which is that I have a resistor on the back side of one of the power tube sockets that seems to have fused with a white wire beside one of the resistor's leads, resulting in a burned wire and a resistor discolored on both ends, labeled RW5W, 1K (symbol for ohms)-J. I guess I will need to locate a replacement and installed, and clip the burned wire section and re-connect. Any alternative suggestions welcome.

Or any tips in identifying the resistor, to purchase.


----------



## whitecloud

Micky said:


> Yes, voltage should be in the 450-475 VDC range...


Cool thanks, now I just need some spring loaded clips and Alligator's


----------



## Bownse

thebowl said:


> Well, I may have been right that the power tubes weren't the problem. I installed a set of new Mullards and, same as before, got no reading from the left post. Zero. The right post measured fine, and the left bias pot worked just fine. I finally noticed something that I should have noticed earlier, which is that I have a resistor on the back side of one of the power tube sockets that seems to have fused with a white wire beside one of the resistor's leads, resulting in a burned wire and a resistor discolored on both ends, labeled RW5W, 1K (symbol for ohms)-J. I guess I will need to locate a replacement and installed, and clip the burned wire section and re-connect. Any alternative suggestions welcome.



That's past DIY in my house. Bummer.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Just curious, how many of you guys prefer the stock 70/80 and just leave the amp alone? Played my new DSL last night with my band and stock I got to say it's a great cutting Marshall tone as is. I know over time the 70/80 will mellow a tad and is very usable, I have a Hellatone 60 I just got yesterday it was for another amp which I just got rid of... thinking of trying it anyway but don't care to add anymore weight to the amp. any Vintage 30 user opinions?


----------



## solarburn

J.LaGrassa said:


> Just curious, how many of you guys prefer the stock 70/80 and just leave the amp alone? Played my new DSL last night with my band and stock I got to say it's a great cutting Marshall tone as is. I know over time the 70/80 will mellow a tad and is very usable, I have a Hellatone 60 I just got yesterday it was for another amp which I just got rid of... thinking of trying it anyway but don't care to add anymore weight to the amp. any Vintage 30 user opinions?



I still use the stock 70/80 over 2 years now.

Personally I want to try a G12-65 Heritage.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I still use the stock 70/80 over 2 years now.
> 
> Personally I want to try a G12-65 Heritage.



Nice! never tried the G12-65


----------



## Micky

J.LaGrassa said:


> Just curious, how many of you guys prefer the stock 70/80 and just leave the amp alone? Played my new DSL last night with my band and stock I got to say it's a great cutting Marshall tone as is. I know over time the 70/80 will mellow a tad and is very usable, I have a Hellatone 60 I just got yesterday it was for another amp which I just got rid of... thinking of trying it anyway but don't care to add anymore weight to the amp. any Vintage 30 user opinions?


I use the Seventy/80 out of my DSL40c in my Fender Princeton Reverb. I replaced the stock 10" Jensen speaker with the Celestion and I absolutely love it in that amp. It makes it useable again, and a 12 instead of a 10 is a huge difference.

I also love the V30's, I have a WGS Vet30 (same thing) in my DSL5c, and it works great there.

Currently in my DSL40c I have an Eminence Man-O-War, but I have other mods that enhance the total sound so it would be like comparing apples to oranges. The 6550's I have installed probably put out a lot more than 50 watts or so, and with the other stuff I have modded it has turned the 40c into a fire-breathing dragon...

The Seventy/80 is a bright speaker, and as you noticed, is perfect for cutting thru the mix. I think it is more of a 'lead guitar' player's type of speaker, and if you do a lot of that stuff should work great. I think they work great in a closed-back cabinet as well, the MX cab I played thru a long time ago sounded great with them installed.


----------



## ken361

prefer the 80's, v30 kinda nasty in the video, my ET65 with EVH with 50 hrs sounding great! no nasty high end like those speakers, guitars may vary though


----------



## rlowe

ken361 said:


> prefer the 80's, v30 kinda nasty in the video, my ET65 with EVH with 50 hrs sounding great! no nasty high end like those speakers, guitars may vary though



I have the Vintage 30 in amp, and 70/80 in separate cab. Listening to both from left ear, right ear the 70/80 is a little high and brittle the vintage 30 has a good thick mid range quality to it. Playing both together there is a nice blend. I paid aprx. $150.00 for my Vintage 30 the 70/80's are around $70.00 I believe. The Vintage 30's were classic speakers back in the 80's rock era. Everyone has different tastes in amps, speakers, etc. Here is a link to: Vintage30 vs. Veteran30 vs. Texas Heat vs. Wizard) This example is a more accurate representation of the Vintage 30


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Tried the Hellatone 60 real quick to see if I like it and it's not bad at all but I still like the 70/80 with the DSL


----------



## ken361

rlowe said:


> I have the Vintage 30 in amp, and 70/80 in separate cab. Listening to both from left ear, right ear the 70/80 is a little high and brittle the vintage 30 has a good thick mid range quality to it. Playing both together there is a nice blend. I paid aprx. $150.00 for my Vintage 30 the 70/80's are around $70.00 I believe. The Vintage 30's were classic speakers back in the 80's rock era. Everyone has different tastes in amps, speakers, etc. Here is a link to: Vintage30 vs. Veteran30 vs. Texas Heat vs. Wizard) This example is a more accurate representation of the Vintage 30



That guy that made the video said maybe the v30 needed more break in. So I take it its pretty new


----------



## rlowe

ken361 said:


> That guy that made the video said maybe the v30 needed more break in. So I take it its pretty new


I thought they all sounded decent, Texas heat sounded lighter IMO.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Spent a lot more time with the Hellatone 60 and getting much better results definitely less harsh compared to the 70/80, sounds a bit cleaner and much fuller tone also cleans up real nice. I will post a little clip of it shortly!


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Here is a quick Audio clip of the DSL40 with the Hellatone 60, the more I listen and play it I think this will become a great sounding speaker as it breaks in.

Quick Audio clip of the Marshall DSL40C using a Hellatone 60 speaker from Avatar, the Hellatone 60 is a Celestion Vintage 30. Starts off in the Classic Gain Crunch mode then into the Ultra Gain channel lead 1 mode, little bit of Boss DD-3 delay in the fx loop


----------



## solarburn

J.LaGrassa said:


> Here is a quick Audio clip of the DSL40 with the Hellatone 60, the more I listen and play it I think this will become a great sounding speaker as it breaks in.
> 
> Starts of using the Crunch channel then Lead 1 for the remainder of the clip.




Very nice!


----------



## ken361

sounds good bro


----------



## solarburn

I axed it. Shit recording!


----------



## ken361

Phone give it that live tone


----------



## solarburn

check this one Ken. My OR15 vs DSL40 boosted by same pedal DLS MK3. DSL in the second half.


----------



## ken361

Like Orange amps!


----------



## J.LaGrassa

solarburnDSL50 said:


> check this one Ken. My OR15 vs DSL40 boosted by same pedal DLS MK3. DSL in the second half.





was the first part of that clip the orange, really fat sounding!


----------



## solarburn

J.LaGrassa said:


> was the first part of that clip the orange, really fat sounding!



Yes. I'm really digging this pedal and amp combo. Sounds great without too.Lol


----------



## solarburn

J.LaGrassa said:


> Here is a quick Audio clip of the DSL40 with the Hellatone 60, the more I listen and play it I think this will become a great sounding speaker as it breaks in.
> 
> Starts of using the Crunch channel then Lead 1 for the remainder of the clip.




I really liked what you got out of this clip. Nice playing too!


----------



## J.LaGrassa

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I really liked what you got out of this clip. Nice playing too!



Thanks!


----------



## rlowe

2 years and several hundreds later I have a nice studio grade sound. I just added the Strymon blue sky reverberator and it is a great reverb unit. The big sky was a little out of my price range and besides maybe a looper I am satisfied. Mostly Mogami cables.


----------



## solarburn

I


rlowe said:


> 2 years and several hundreds later I have a nice studio grade sound. I just added the Strymon blue sky reverberator and it is a great reverb unit. The big sky was a little out of my price range and besides maybe a looper I am satisfied. Mostly Mogami cables.
> View attachment 40235



I thought I was at 2 years but my vids tell me 3.

Nice set up!

This amp continues to surprise me and I have an amp that kills. Don't even need the DSL40C but I play the shit out of it without a care in the world.

This amp makes my playing friends think twice about going with a $600 Marshall. Plus I can play well enuff to get their attention.LOL


----------



## J.LaGrassa

rlowe said:


> 2 years and several hundreds later I have a nice studio grade sound. I just added the Strymon blue sky reverberator and it is a great reverb unit. The big sky was a little out of my price range and besides maybe a looper I am satisfied. Mostly Mogami cables.
> View attachment 40235




Nice board, thats a lot of pedals!!


----------



## rlowe

J.LaGrassa said:


> Nice board, thats a lot of pedals!!


Carefully selected each pedal over time to get a quality sound. I do have a dedicated buffer 1st before JB wah, and Archer near the end is buffered. The buffers help in restoring tone loss due to capacitance.


----------



## Bownse

rlowe said:


> 2 years and several hundreds later I have a nice studio grade sound. I just added the Strymon blue sky reverberator and it is a great reverb unit. The big sky was a little out of my price range and besides maybe a looper I am satisfied.



Got the Strymon DIG delay for xmas. Strymon makes some great stuff but it tends to be outside my pay grade.


----------



## Michaeld13

rlowe said:


> Carefully selected each pedal over time to get a quality sound. I do have a dedicated buffer 1st before JB wah, and Archer near the end is buffered. The buffers help in restoring tone loss due to capacitance.


Let's hear some of that board! And awesome playing guys. Loooove it!


----------



## rlowe

Michaeld13 said:


> Let's hear some of that board! And awesome playing guys. Loooove it!


Yea, I will get around to that as soon as I can. The Marshall Dsl40c is impressive on it's own, but with a few pedals I can emulate, sculpt, and get a wide variety of sounds with it. These are all good pedals having potential, but something about the Keeley 4 knob compressor that lifts this amp with a fat, rich thump quality to it.


----------



## JiMB

Recorded this last week, thought you guys might find it useful:


----------



## rlowe

JiMB said:


> Recorded this last week, thought you guys might find it useful:



Yea, dig that Vintage 30 better IMHO


----------



## J.LaGrassa

JiMB said:


> Recorded this last week, thought you guys might find it useful:





Always great demos Jimb, they sound kind of similar in the video. I have a Helatone 60(V30) in mine its nice and tight, the Neo sounds a little loser.


----------



## SteelLucky

Neo Creamback for me.


----------



## JiMB

J.LaGrassa said:


> Always great demos Jimb, they sound kind of similar in the video. I have a Helatone 60(V30) in mine its nice and tight, the Neo sounds a little loser.


Yes, the V30 is tighter in the lows. I like it with high gain. Both cool.


----------



## BanditPanda

Definitely a matter of personal taste and musical style.
The Neo is rather sophisticated. The V30 rather raw.
Best I can describe it.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

The Neo would be worth trying just to keep the weight down!


----------



## JiMB

J.LaGrassa said:


> The Neo would be worth trying just to keep the weight down!


Yes! That was one of my considerations after trying at The Amp Show.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

JiMB said:


> Yes! That was one of my considerations after trying at The Amp Show.




I think I may want to try that Neo Creamback, I like the V30 but not crazy about the weight


----------



## Lp2

DirtySteve said:


> Micky the handles look great! You might be interested to know that the more I play mine the better it sounds and I'm going to have a hard time letting it go. I know I know, but damn!...it does sound good and besides, I'm used to eating my words by now.  we'll see. If I do keep it I'm going to try some of these mods.
> 
> Here are some shots inside the 40c cab if anyone's interested...


This may be a stupid question for you guys.......why is there a rubber ring on one of the tubes?.. Does it hurt to remove it? I did on my dsl40 c just wondering what its purpose is...Sorry I'm a NEWBIE!!!


----------



## Len

Lp2 said:


> This may be a stupid question for you guys.......why is there a rubber ring on one of the tubes?.. Does it hurt to remove it? I did on my dsl40 c just wondering what its purpose is...Sorry I'm a NEWBIE!!!


https://www.eurotubes.com/store/pc/eurotubes tube damper rings.htm


----------



## J.LaGrassa

That acts as a Tube damper, it helps if your preamp tube develops tube rattle... especially with V1 which is the most sensitive tube for noise.


----------



## Bownse

Been a while but I finally made time to document the conversion from combo to mini-stack

http://www.fjr-tips.org/misc/amp/DSL40C_Mod/A_Project.html#0


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Bownse said:


> Been a while but I finally made time to document the conversion from combo to mini-stack
> 
> http://www.fjr-tips.org/misc/amp/DSL40C_Mod/A_Project.html#0




Looks great, nice work!


----------



## BanditPanda

Bownse said:


> Been a while but I finally made time to document the conversion from combo to mini-stack
> 
> http://www.fjr-tips.org/misc/amp/DSL40C_Mod/A_Project.html#0


Excellent Bownse. I got no such skills but I am close to having my guitar tech build one like for me.


----------



## solarburn

I phone recorded my DSL40C with 70/80 vs my OR15 using the Celestion V series 112 cab. Both clips mildly boosted by my DLS MK3. Both amps at volume. The OR15 is first.


----------



## rlowe

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I phone recorded my DSL40C with 70/80 vs my OR15 using the Celestion V series 112 cab. Both clips mildly boosted by my DLS MK3. Both amps at volume. The OR15 is first.



Dsl40c... clarity, then again differ amps require differ EQ to get that sound mon.


----------



## solarburn

rlowe said:


> Dsl40c... clarity, then again differ amps require differ EQ to get that sound mon.



Orange:

Volume: 11:30am
Gain:1pm
Treble:2:30pm
Mids:2:30pm
Bass:9am

With a V series 112.

DSL40C:70/80

Gain:9:30 L2
Volume 3.5
Treble:10:30am
Mids:2pm
Bass:1pm
Presence:11am
Rez:1pm

Using my EC1000 loaded with Dimarzio SD'S. Pedal EQ The same.


----------



## solarburn

rlowe said:


> Dsl40c... clarity, then again differ amps require differ EQ to get that sound mon.



Yep. The Orange is darker voiced naturally which sounds excellent too.

The Marshall cuts and sings as I prefer although variety benefits music overall. I could use both in a tune no problem. Yet I luvs me the those Marshall high mids.


----------



## RickyLee

Hoping someone in the know will see this post, but this thread is WAY long.

I have a friend who might be picking up a DSL40C.

Can someone tell me what B+ these amps run at?

Or simpler, what is the plate voltage on the power tube plates?

And what type of power tubes does it run?


----------



## solarburn

Usually 450v but can go to 470v using EL34's.

My wall voltage is 119v to 120v. My amp runs at 450V with a bias of 36mv with the stock 34's.


----------



## Bownse

Plate V (typically) runs around 450v but you should get actual test numbers from each amp because there is some variation and an assumption can cost you tubes.

E34L or EL34


----------



## ken361

450 to 475 or so


----------



## guitardude57

RickyLee said:


> Hoping someone in the know will see this post, but this thread is WAY long.
> 
> I have a friend who might be picking up a DSL40C.
> 
> Can someone tell me what B+ these amps run at?
> 
> Or simpler, what is the plate voltage on the power tube plates?
> 
> And what type of power tubes does it run?




The last one I was in...was 452 V EL34's.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

I had 454 on my plates when I was checking the bias on the stock EL34 tubes


----------



## PtTimeRckr

My results... ymmv
Wall voltage ~124-125v AC
Measured plate voltage 473v
Tube bias at 36.5mA

This is for the stock EL34 PTs.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Took out my stash of JJ tubes and put in 4 JJ ECC83S and a Pair of JJ E34L power tubes, they definitely beef up the tone and take some of the harshness away... stock 70/80 is now very usable.


----------



## rlowe

This is just a test track testing Sound Cloud. The actual recording was done months earlier testing some pedals at random, and I believe this is recorded with my Gibson LP studio. I will do another with my full board soon.


----------



## solarburn

rlowe said:


> This is just a test track testing Sound Cloud. The actual recording was done months earlier testing some pedals at random, and I believe this is recorded with my Gibson LP studio. I will do another with my full board soon.




Playing's great. I'm getting a tinny sound through my usual play back speaker. I know for a fact the amp sounds fuller plus you are using an LP.

The recording is getting scooped and thinned out. What you recording with?

And is anyone else's playback sound like mine?


----------



## ken361

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Playing's great. I'm getting a tinny sound through my usual play back speaker. I know for a fact the amp sounds fuller plus you are using an LP.
> 
> The recording is getting scooped and thinned out. What you recording with?
> 
> And is anyone else's playback sound like mine?


yeah the v30's are they new?


----------



## solarburn

ken361 said:


> yeah the v30's are they new?



Well I've got a phone that is night/day different recording wise than my usual. It will treble the tone out. Funny thing is its much newer or smarter than the one I normally use. Its easy to get a poor recording. I know.


----------



## ken361

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Well I've got a phone that is night/day different recording wise than my usual. It will treble the tone out. Funny thing is its much newer or smarter than the one I normally use. Its easy to get a poor recording. I know.


i just use a mic and a mobile pre interface I use to record


----------



## rlowe

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Playing's great. I'm getting a tinny sound through my usual play back speaker. I know for a fact the amp sounds fuller plus you are using an LP.
> 
> The recording is getting scooped and thinned out. What you recording with?
> 
> And is anyone else's playback sound like mine?


Yea, this is from an older handful of random test recordings. I use a Tascam mini recorder does great and sounds better now honed in.


----------



## solarburn

rlowe said:


> Yea, this is from an older handful of random test recordings. I use a Tascam mini recorder does great and sounds better now honed in.



Yeah from the way it sounds I'm calling it recording issue.

I still use the 70/80 which everyone calls shrill and none of my sound bytes are shrill. Even with biting V1&V2 preamp tubes.


----------



## solarburn

Speaker's make a considerable difference too though.

I used a 112 cab loaded with a V series Celestion and I can't get it shrill in the top end.

The last clip I did on this thread with the OR15 vs DSL's 70/80 it was through the V series cab using the OR15. I had treble and mids at 2:30 pm and bass at 9am. Any lower on bass and it was too bottom end anemic. The OR15 is more upper mid than most Oranges.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Playing's great. I'm getting a tinny sound through my usual play back speaker. I know for a fact the amp sounds fuller plus you are using an LP.
> 
> The recording is getting scooped and thinned out. What you recording with?
> 
> And is anyone else's playback sound like mine?



Yeah it sounds a bit thin and this is through my yamaha monitors, it has that out of phase and distant sound to it but the playing sounds great.


----------



## solarburn

Yeah the playing rocks. Jus needs a recording adjustment. Been there too many times to count hehee.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Just ordered a Celestion V-Type, this speaker was the one I like the most out of all the speakers I tried with the last DSL40 I had. I should have it by Friday which will be nice so I can break it in this weekend!


----------



## solarburn

J.LaGrassa said:


> Just ordered a Celestion V-Type, this speaker was the one I like the most out of all the speakers I tried with the last DSL40 I had. I should have it by Friday which will be nice so I can break it in this weekend!



Let us know how it sounds with the DSL40. I know how it sounds with the 007 Bassbreaker and OR15.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Let us know how it sounds with the DSL40. I know how it sounds with the 007 Bassbreaker and OR15.



I will put up a clip when I get it this weekend!


----------



## solarburn

Right on man.


----------



## G the wildman

Any have tips for Santana Samba Pati.

I am close with a boss blues peadal and a compressor. But I may have too much equipment.

I am using a Gibson LP.

Cheers

G


----------



## riefil




----------



## ibanezguy364

So whats the best way to get these amps tighter on the gain channel?

Change the C12 to a lower number? Or should I muck around with tubes?

I have already swapped the pre amp tubes and it sounds better but its still flubby with gain above 4 on the gain channels.


----------



## solarburn

ibanezguy364 said:


> So whats the best way to get these amps tighter on the gain channel?
> 
> Change the C12 to a lower number? Or should I muck around with tubes?
> 
> I have already swapped the pre amp tubes and it sounds better but its still flubby with gain above 4 on the gain channels.



Which gain channel? L1, L2 or Green crunch?

Boost pedals such as a clean boost or OD can tighten saturation up on this amp nicely.

Of course circuit tweaks can help but I find I haven't needed any having tubes and pedals on hand.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

ibanezguy364 said:


> So whats the best way to get these amps tighter on the gain channel?
> 
> Change the C12 to a lower number? Or should I muck around with tubes?
> 
> I have already swapped the pre amp tubes and it sounds better but its still flubby with gain above 4 on the gain channels.



Try a pair of JJ E34L they sound much tighter than the stock TAD Power tubes that were in my amp.


----------



## ken361

ibanezguy364 said:


> So whats the best way to get these amps tighter on the gain channel?
> 
> Change the C12 to a lower number? Or should I muck around with tubes?
> 
> I have already swapped the pre amp tubes and it sounds better but its still flubby with gain above 4 on the gain channels.


boost it


----------



## Bownse

Mine came with Marshall (JJ) tubes as stock.


----------



## Micky

Bownse said:


> Mine came with Marshall (JJ) tubes as stock.


Mine did as well.


----------



## ken361

marshall rebranded JJ silver plate i have


----------



## mmorse

it's my understanding the dsl 40 comes with a 16ohm celestian 70/80. when you plug an external cab in, does it cut off the internal speaker? if so, is there any way to hook a 16 ohm cab up while still using the internal speaker at the same time? two 16s would result in a safe 8 ohm load to the amp.


----------



## Micky

mmorse said:


> it's my understanding the dsl 40 comes with a 16ohm celestian 70/80. when you plug an external cab in, does it cut off the internal speaker? if so, is there any way to hook a 16 ohm cab up while still using the internal speaker at the same time? two 16s would result in a safe 8 ohm load to the amp.


Yes. Plug both a 16-ohm cab along with the internal 16-ohm Seventy/80 intoo the 8-ohm jacks and you will do great! (8-ohm total load)
Plugging anything into the 8-ohm jack(s) disconnects the 16-ohm output.


----------



## mmorse

is the internal speaker plugged into the 16 ohm external jack by default? in other words there is no internal connection?


----------



## J.LaGrassa

mmorse said:


> is the internal speaker plugged into the 16 ohm external jack by default? in other words there is no internal connection?



Yes the internal speaker is plugged into the 16 ohm jack


----------



## jeffb

JJ makes three different el34s. They all sound very different.

El34
El34L
El34 II

Of course, Marshall used the least expensive, lackluster version of the three (the standard EL34)

I can recommend the JJ KT77s to really tighten the amp up. That said, speakers and using the resonance and bass controls sparingly is more important than anything else.


----------



## mmorse

Micky said:


> Yes. Plug both a 16-ohm cab along with the internal 16-ohm Seventy/80 intoo the 8-ohm jacks and you will do great! (8-ohm total load)
> Plugging anything into the 8-ohm jack(s) disconnects the 16-ohm output.



thanks! much appreciated.


----------



## mmorse

J.LaGrassa said:


> Yes the internal speaker is plugged into the 16 ohm jack



thanks for the clarification.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Celestion V-Type has Arrived... Celestion V-Type Installed... Celestion V-Type is Rock'n 

Perfect speaker for the DSL40C

Here is a little audio clip of the DSL40 with a Celestion V-Type speaker


----------



## rlowe

jeffb said:


> JJ makes three different el34s. They all sound very different.
> 
> El34
> El34L
> El34 II
> 
> Of course, Marshall used the least expensive, lackluster version of the three (the standard EL34)
> 
> I can recommend the JJ KT77s to really tighten the amp up. That said, speakers and using the resonance and bass controls sparingly is more important than anything else.


Yes, I have tried JJ EL34's JJ E34L's and Tad EL34's. From best to less JJ E34L's, JJ EL34's, Tad EL34's. The JJ E34L's are tighter and have more punch compared overall. Some have commented they liked the Tad PT's, but IMO nope! Tad's are ok, but didn't quite live up to the hype in my amp.


----------



## solarburn

J.LaGrassa said:


> Celestion V-Type has Arrived... Celestion V-Type Installed... Celestion V-Type is Rock'n
> 
> Perfect speaker for the DSL40C
> 
> Here is a little audio clip of the DSL40 with a Celestion V-Type speaker




That sounds excellent. So does your playing.

Loved the Billy Squier. Anyways let us know how it breaks in . It sounds great already I'm just wondering if it may get too warm. I have this speaker too in another 112. Haven't tried it with the DSL yet.

Really like the tones you're getting with it.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

rlowe said:


> Yes, I have tried JJ EL34's JJ E34L's and Tad EL34's. From best to less JJ E34L's, JJ EL34's, Tad EL34's. The JJ E34L's are tighter and have more punch compared overall. Some have commented they liked the Tad PT's, but IMO nope! Tad's are ok, but didn't quite live up to the hype in my amp.



The JJ E34L is a very nice tube I also like that they stay a bit cleaner, The stock TADs I got were ok and break up easier they had #1 rating printed on them. I prefer the JJ E34L over the Winged C's I have stashed away, I have a new set of GT EL34M I tried briefly with the last amp I had and thought they were nice sounding I wonder how those would sound in the Marshall... may have to try them just to test them out.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

solarburnDSL50 said:


> That sounds excellent. So does your playing.
> 
> Loved the Billy Squier. Anyways let us know how it breaks in . It sounds great already I'm just wondering if it may get too warm. I have this speaker too in another 112. Haven't tried it with the DSL yet.
> 
> Really like the tones you're getting with it.




I dont think it will change much... if anything it will just get better, one thing nice about this speaker is you get full use of your treble and presence unlike with the 70/80 installed... this should be the stock speaker for that amp IMO.


----------



## solarburn

J.LaGrassa said:


> I dont think it will change much... if anything it will just get better, one thing nice about this speaker is you get full use of your treble and presence unlike with the 70/80 installed... this should be the stock speaker for that amp IMO.



Mine smoothed out...almost more than I like. You're right about the treble. I think I prefer a more biting top but the V Series does sound nice. With my OR15 and BB007 it became a bit too warm or smooth. Makes my Orange fat which sounds cool.

The DSL however has plenty of bite and I can see this being a great match. I'll have to try it soon. It is a very low in weight speaker too.


----------



## rjohns1

So I blew the Greenback I had in the DSl40c. Yeah, I was trying to be really careful, but was jamming hard and kick on a fuzz with a lower octave. Crispy coil city. UGH. Had to run the original 70/80 for a couple of weeks. Pure torture after the greenback. But, today I received a new Creamback 75. WOW! This is definitely THE speaker for this amp. Everything I have tried to dial out of the 70/80 is gone, and the tone is perfect with the eq straight up the middle. I can best describe it as right in the middle of a greenback and a vintage 30. The best qualities of both. No shrill upper midrange of the vintage 30, but the solid low end of one, with the voice of a greenback in the mids. I'm really happy with it now. Try one if you can felas, it's worth the coin for one.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

rjohns1 said:


> So I blew the Greenback I had in the DSl40c. Yeah, I was trying to be really careful, but was jamming hard and kick on a fuzz with a lower octave. Crispy coil city. UGH. Had to run the original 70/80 for a couple of weeks. Pure torture after the greenback. But, today I received a new Creamback 75. WOW! This is definitely THE speaker for this amp. Everything I have tried to dial out of the 70/80 is gone, and the tone is perfect with the eq straight up the middle. I can best describe it as right in the middle of a greenback and a vintage 30. The best qualities of both. No shrill upper midrange of the vintage 30, but the solid low end of one, with the voice of a greenback in the mids. I'm really happy with it now. Try one if you can felas, it's worth the coin for one.



Nice glad you like the CB75 I thought it was a little to bright for my taste but still a reall good good speaker, it loves to be pushed!


----------



## Bownse

Love my G12H-75/16. 

My thoughts, at time of purchase, were... Sweetwater and others are specing the 65W but that may not be leaving enough in reserve for spikes.


----------



## solarburn

Micky said:


> Yes. Plug both a 16-ohm cab along with the internal 16-ohm Seventy/80 intoo the 8-ohm jacks and you will do great! (8-ohm total load)
> Plugging anything into the 8-ohm jack(s) disconnects the 16-ohm output.



Hey bud...I was reading the manual and it states when the 16ohm tap/jack is used the 8ohm jacks won't operate.

I unplug the internal speaker(16ohm jack)when I use my 8ohm extension cabinet into 8ohm jack of the amp.


----------



## Msharky67

I haven't changed the speaker in my DSL40c yet but am planning to when I get moved to our new house. I have a WGS-65 in my Haze40 which I was recommended which is better but it still is too boomy. I was thinking the 70/80 may be a good choice for it so I plan on swapping those two and see what happens. I am sure the 65 will scream in the DSL. I have a rocket 50 and the Marque 65 from the Haze too to try. I usually love the G12-T75 but I don't have one at the moment or the funds to get one. Stupidly sold one I had sure enough I could use it now.


----------



## Bownse

Q: How long would it take to harm the amp if you plugged a 2x12 cab (16 ohm each for a total load of 8 ohms) into the 16 ohm jack by mistake?

{don't ask}


----------



## rjohns1

I really depends on a few things. Did you have it cranked for a long time? Most likely, it took a few hours of life out of the power tubes. Most likely you will be fine. Just keep an eye on it.


----------



## mark123

I just got my DSL40C and, being a pedal geek, I tried a bunch in the front and in the loop. I have a pedal that's sort of like an Xotic EP Booster that I built. I like it in the loop a lot, it really tames any harshness. Something like that may be a non-warranty voiding solution instead of removing C19. With the booster in the loop I also don't notice an increase in brightness on OD2. 

Anyone else try it? Maybe it was mentioned somewhere in this long running thread but I haven't got to it yet.

I'm really new to this amp though, still tweaking it.


----------



## Bownse

rjohns1 said:


> I really depends on a few things. Did you have it cranked for a long time? Most likely, it took a few hours of life out of the power tubes. Most likely you will be fine. Just keep an eye on it.



Just saw it. Been a few weeks of about an hour most days. Never cranked and only an hour in 40W mode. I could kick myself because I know better.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Msharky67 said:


> I haven't changed the speaker in my DSL40c yet but am planning to when I get moved to our new house. I have a WGS-65 in my Haze40 which I was recommended which is better but it still is too boomy. I was thinking the 70/80 may be a good choice for it so I plan on swapping those two and see what happens. I am sure the 65 will scream in the DSL. I have a rocket 50 and the Marque 65 from the Haze too to try. I usually love the G12-T75 but I don't have one at the moment or the funds to get one. Stupidly sold one I had sure enough I could use it now.



Since you already have the ET-65 give that a shot andd see if you like it, it can be expensive but you going to have to try a few speakers to see what really works for you. My latest & greatest speaker change is the Celestion V-Type I really like how that speaker reacts in the amp for my style.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

mark123 said:


> I just got my DSL40C and, being a pedal geek, I tried a bunch in the front and in the loop. I have a pedal that's sort of like an Xotic EP Booster that I built. I like it in the loop a lot, it really tames any harshness. Something like that may be a non-warranty voiding solution instead of removing C19. With the booster in the loop I also don't notice an increase in brightness on OD2.
> 
> Anyone else try it? Maybe it was mentioned somewhere in this long running thread but I haven't got to it yet.
> 
> I'm really new to this amp though, still tweaking it.




I dont use any dirt pedals with my amp but in my fx loop I use a Boss DD3 delay and a TC Electronic Spark mini boost, the boost is just a clean boost for solos and does not alter your tone. I would avoid clipping C19 just put in a better speaker thats not as bright as the 70/80 or use the tone control on your guitar it's very useful.


----------



## mark123

J.LaGrassa said:


> I dont use any dirt pedals with my amp but in my fx loop I use a Boss DD3 delay and a TC Electronic Spark mini boost, the boost is just a clean boost for solos and does not alter your tone. I would avoid clipping C19 just put in a better speaker thats not as bright as the 70/80 or use the tone control on your guitar it's very useful.


Yeah, that's what I'm getting at. No need to clip any capacitors. The EP Boost type circuit even tames the bright speaker.


----------



## solarburn

I can play this amp straight in and pedaled up. Stock.

Don't see a weakness either way. Either approach is worthy if the tone is.


----------



## solarburn

Do you guys just have fun with your DSL40 without worrying about what others think? I do...and I serve it up greasy...for my Bros here that don't think this amp will do vintage Marshall? It is here. Add a Plexi to this clip and it'd be old school love. Tangy outer...but sweet inner.


----------



## solarburn

Let's add a crazy German to the mix...dood can play!


----------



## J.LaGrassa

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Do you guys just have fun with your DSL40 without worrying about what others think? I do...and I serve it up greasy...for my Bros here that don't think this amp will do vintage Marshall? It is here. Add a Plexi to this clip and it'd be old school love. Tangy outer...but sweet inner.




What were your settings?, Sounds pretty dam good!


----------



## J.LaGrassa

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Let's add a crazy German to the mix...dood can play!





This guy is a good player I seen a few of his demos!


----------



## Solid State

mark123 said:


> I just got my DSL40C and, being a pedal geek, I tried a bunch in the front and in the loop. I have a pedal that's sort of like an Xotic EP Booster that I built. I like it in the loop a lot, it really tames any harshness. Something like that may be a non-warranty voiding solution instead of removing C19. With the booster in the loop I also don't notice an increase in brightness on OD2.
> 
> Anyone else try it? Maybe it was mentioned somewhere in this long running thread but I haven't got to it yet.
> 
> I'm really new to this amp though, still tweaking it.



Yeah, a speaker swap or extension cabinet is definitely a best choice option. Creamback, Greenback, T75 or EV 12L could be considered a substantial upgrade as far as getting a great tone and also for future value. Then it's EQ in the loop and OD in the front to shape the sound. 

I think the C19 mods were just some dudes poking around to see if there was another amp hidden in the DSL40C. I've heard the clips of the mod and it's not an improvement.


----------



## jeffb

Different strokes

I've run a dozen different combos of speakers in my 2x12 cab with my DSL40c and never bothered plugging in the footswitch because the red channel was a noisy nasal thin mess on R1 and unusable muddy fizz on R2.

Post C19, I actually find both modes usable and spend a fair amount of time on R1 in particular. It makes a great lead tone as it hits harder in the high mids and is a little cleaner in the low midrange than green crunch. I wish I had done the mod 2 years prior.

That said, green crunch with a good goose pedal is still the better option for me and I wouldn't miss the red channel at all if it was gone.


----------



## Msharky67

I just threw the G12T-66 from my Haze40 into my DSL40c. WOW! What a difference. The stock speaker was OK the clean was good but the gain was missing something. The clean now is still clear but more fuller robust. The gain is also the same more organic sounding. The resonance is more usable too. It didn't have enough with the 70/80. That shrill trebley tone is gone and its more what it should be. I usually favor a G12T75 but this worked just as good and I didn't have to spend any money. The only test I will have to try is with different guitars and pickups. LP's, Strats etc. But overall it is a great improvement and if any of you have one of those speakers from a Haze40 I would try it out. I can't say enough how sweet this amp is. I would kiss Jim Marshall now if he was still alive! Amen!


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Decided to put the stock Marshall tubes back in and try them with the Celestion V-Type I just installed and the amp sounds very good with this setup, big test will be in a band mix.


----------



## solarburn

J.LaGrassa said:


> What were your settings?, Sounds pretty dam good!



It's an older clip and I have no idea now where I was settings wise. I like it though cause it is greasy.LOL


----------



## ken361

Msharky67 said:


> I just threw the G12T-66 from my Haze40 into my DSL40c. WOW! What a difference. The stock speaker was OK the clean was good but the gain was missing something. The clean now is still clear but more fuller robust. The gain is also the same more organic sounding. The resonance is more usable too. It didn't have enough with the 70/80. That shrill trebley tone is gone and its more what it should be. I usually favor a G12T75 but this worked just as good and I didn't have to spend any money. The only test I will have to try is with different guitars and pickups. LP's, Strats etc. But overall it is a great improvement and if any of you have one of those speakers from a Haze40 I would try it out. I can't say enough how sweet this amp is. I would kiss Jim Marshall now if he was still alive! Amen!


try the ET65 it will prb blow it away


----------



## James3321

If a person is looking for a Sabbath sound, maybe for stoner or doom metal, how about either a G12t-75 or a G12k-100? I understand they both have a massive low end.


----------



## ken361

James3321 said:


> If a person is looking for a Sabbath sound, maybe for stoner or doom metal, how about either a G12t-75 or a G12k-100? I understand they both have a massive low end.


v30 prb


----------



## Solid State

Tony Iommi uses G12H30 and G12H Heritage. 

In studio he also uses some V30s for added texture

The Heritage is modeled exactly like the speakers were back in the day so it's probably got that tone.


----------



## rlowe

Taste of the board Riffin' and Floyd overdubbed myself. Used most, and not all pedals involved In recordings, using my Gibson LP standard. To anyone reviewing this track at a later date: Crank your audio volume full as I did not compensate for xtra reverb used when recorded, thus giving less volume on playback. This track was recorded on the fly...


----------



## solarburn

rlowe said:


> Taste of the board Riffin' and Floyd overdubbed myself. Used most, and not all pedals involved In recordings, using my Gibson LP standard.




I can barely hear it. The Floyd at the end came through a little louder but I'm having to crank my speaker to hear anything at all.


----------



## rlowe

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I can barely hear it. The Floyd at the end came through a little louder but I'm having to crank my speaker to hear anything at all.


Are you using a phone? my computer sounds fine cranked. Breath in the air, Chording and lead was all recorded myself, lead overdubbed.


----------



## rlowe

rlowe said:


> Are you using a phone? my computer sounds fine cranked. Breath in the air, Chording and lead was all recorded myself, lead overdubbed.


I tried it with my Android and I needed earbuds to hear it better. The recording was done at lower levels, but with earbuds or computer should hear it better.


----------



## solarburn

rlowe said:


> I tried it with my Android and I needed earbuds to hear it better. The recording was done at lower levels, but with earbuds or computer should hear it better.



I am using a tablet with BT speakers. My usual playback device.

I'll try again...


----------



## solarburn

Same result. Can't get enough volume. PF sounds great. Its a bit louder than the rest.


----------



## rlowe

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Same result. Can't get enough volume. PF sounds great. Its a bit louder than the rest.


Earbuds or headphones should pick up better with a tablet. I was using earbuds with an LG Android, and computer and it sounded fine.


----------



## solarburn

rlowe said:


> Earbuds or headphones should pick up better with a tablet. I was using earbuds with an LG Android, and computer and it sounded fine.



Jus tried it with ear phones. Still no volume although I can hear it. Great playing. Wish I could hear playback at a decent volume though.


----------



## BanditPanda

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I am using a tablet with BT speakers. My usual playback device.
> 
> I'll try again...


 By BT are you referring to Behringer Truth ?


----------



## ken361

cant hear it either


----------



## Bownse

On a desktop with powered speakers and have to crank the volume all the way to hear it.

Do an edit and bump up the audio track


----------



## rlowe

Bownse said:


> On a desktop with powered speakers and have to crank the volume all the way to hear it.
> 
> Do an edit and bump up the audio track


Yes, I am using a Tascam recorder and I believe accidently hit a input ctrl level, or something will check on that.


----------



## solarburn

BanditPanda said:


> By BT are you referring to Behringer Truth ?



Blue tooth.


----------



## blackeye-liner

Hi everyone! Based on my research and this thread I recently purchased a DSL40C - my first real tube amp. I was using a tube fender twin preamp + soldano supercharger clone before, and it works perfectly still into my PC where I add impulses on it and it sounds wonderful, but I wanted a real amp with a real sound, and it really makes a difference.

However, there's one problem I have - high-pitched squeal on higher gain (starts at around 5 on utra-gain channel and does not change pitch/volume, just disappears if you lower gain). The way I connect it is - guitar (Gibson SG) -> Schaffer Replica -> DSL40C. Schaffer replica is part of my pedalboard described above, which works like this: guitar -> schaffer replica -> soldano supercharger -> fender twin -> focusrite scarlett -> poulin lecab -> headphones, so I put an a/b pedal between schaffer and soldano, and I can switch between sending signal after schaffer to PC via preamp or to amp directly.

So the issue is - it's definitely not tubes or the amp itself. If I connect my guitar into the amp input directly, there's no squeal at any volume or gain. If I connect my fender twin preamp into DSL40C FX loop return, there's squeal at higher gain on any of my pedals as well - soldano will squeal too, but the pitch will be lower.

How do I troubleshoot this? Overall I love the setup and the way it works, but this one thing is kind of annoying, even though I do not use high gain.


----------



## ken361

prb bet its the schaffer pedal, try the gain at around 3. I wanted to try that pedal maybe in the crunch channel? when you boost the red channel you have to be careful not to add to much gain on top


----------



## ken361

fender is a clean amp so its not going to squeal, when adding gain on top of gain you have to be careful doing it


----------



## blackeye-liner

ken361 said:


> prb bet its the schaffer pedal, try the gain at around 3


With or without Schaffer replica it squeals on long cables and doesn't squeal when plugged in directly to the front of the amp.



ken361 said:


> fender is a clean amp so its not going to squeal, when adding gain on top of gain you have to be careful doing it


I haven't got fender amp, it's a preamp based on fender twin, and I have a distortion pedal plugged into it. And the amp squeals if I put this preamp->distortion into its return.


----------



## blackeye-liner

ken361 said:


> I wanted to try that pedal maybe in the crunch channel?


Squeal happens in both channels regardless, requires more gain to start on crunch, but is identical.


----------



## solarburn

I wouldn't put those pedals in the loop or its return.

I'm more conventional and the amp sounds great. Why go into its return?

I'd use the Schaffer in front to boost signal to whatever channel you want.


----------



## blackeye-liner

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I wouldn't put those pedals in the loop or its return.
> 
> I'm more conventional and the amp sounds great. Why go into its return?
> 
> I'd use the Schaffer in front to boost signal to whatever channel you want.


I'm probably not explaining my setup very well.

Option 1: guitar -> schaffer replica -> front of DSL40C - squeals if gain is high, no matter if schaffer is on or off

Option 2: guitar -> schaffer replica -> soldano overdrive -> fender twin preamp -> return of DSL40C - squeals if gain is high on soldano, no matter if schaffer is on or off

Option 3: guitar -> front of DSL40C - no squeal on any gain setting and any channel.

The only difference is the way it is wired - through pedalboard, or guitar directly to amp. Through pedalboard the wires are longer (by about 16 feet longer), but there's no hum/noise/signal degradation is hear though between those options.


----------



## solarburn

blackeye-liner said:


> I'm probably not explaining my setup very well.
> 
> Option 1: guitar -> schaffer replica -> front of DSL40C - squeals if gain is high, no matter if schaffer is on or off
> 
> Option 2: guitar -> schaffer replica -> soldano overdrive -> fender twin preamp -> return of DSL40C - squeals if gain is high on soldano, no matter if schaffer is on or off
> 
> Option 3: guitar -> front of DSL40C - no squeal on any gain setting and any channel.
> 
> The only difference is the way it is wired - through pedalboard, or guitar directly to amp. Through pedalboard the wires are longer (by about 16 feet longer), but there's no hum/noise/signal degradation is hear though between those options.



So pedals in front are causing feedback too. 

You checked cables and or tried other known good ones?

Maybe a bad pream tube? You have any known good spares to check with?

Also post this in the work bench forum. We got some good trouble shooters there.


----------



## blackeye-liner

solarburnDSL50 said:


> So pedals in front are causing feedback too.


Yes, if they are connected via long cable they do cause this feedback.


solarburnDSL50 said:


> You checked cables and or tried other known good ones?


This will be my next step - I will rule out the cables.


solarburnDSL50 said:


> Maybe a bad pream tube? You have any known good spares to check with?


Highly doubt that could be the case, because this feedback is there even with an external preamp, which is working fine by itself.

Thanks for helping on this, I will post what I find out.


----------



## ken361

Any luck? Make a recording when you figure it out plz


----------



## Micky

Make sure you have well-shielded, unbalanced (coaxial) instrument cables.

Putting gain into the first preamp stage will certainly overload the circuit and create all kinds of oscillations and feedback. Inserting it before the final stage (via FX loop) will be less problematic, but you lose control of a lot of things the preamp does to counteract these problems.

I feel it is most certainly the pedal you are using, as it does not exhibit the problem plugging directly in.


----------



## Jimmyohio75

Today at band practice I did 2 things with my DSL40C that made it sound better than it ever has.
I was blown away by its perfection.
1) Finally took everyone's advice and ran my Boss SD-1 on the green channel with the gain nearly maxed out.
2) Hooked up my Avatar 1x12 cab with Celestion V-Type speaker and ran it along with the Creamback internal speaker.
WOW!!! This is what I have been searching for.
Might never use the red channel ever again. The green channel with overdrive pedal is absolute perfection. My Les Paul never sounded better!!!


----------



## Bownse

I've found the 75w Creamback and 70/80 also compliment each other. I may swap the 70/80 some time in the future but for now I'm pleased.


----------



## rlowe

Bownse said:


> On a desktop with powered speakers and have to crank the volume all the way to hear it.
> 
> Do an edit and bump up the audio track


I could not find a way to edit, or bump up the track, but found out the xtra reverb lowers the volume level and making sure the volume is spiked at a decent level.


----------



## rlowe

Jimmyohio75 said:


> Today at band practice I did 2 things with my DSL40C that made it sound better than it ever has.
> I was blown away by its perfection.
> 1) Finally took everyone's advice and ran my Boss SD-1 on the green channel with the gain nearly maxed out.
> 2) Hooked up my Avatar 1x12 cab with Celestion V-Type speaker and ran it along with the Creamback internal speaker.
> WOW!!! This is what I have been searching for.
> Might never use the red channel ever again. The green channel with overdrive pedal is absolute perfection. My Les Paul never sounded better!!!


The green channel with a boost, or overdrive of some sort up front, seems to give it a harmonic clarity lacking on the red channel.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Jimmyohio75 said:


> Today at band practice I did 2 things with my DSL40C that made it sound better than it ever has.
> I was blown away by its perfection.
> 1) Finally took everyone's advice and ran my Boss SD-1 on the green channel with the gain nearly maxed out.
> 2) Hooked up my Avatar 1x12 cab with Celestion V-Type speaker and ran it along with the Creamback internal speaker.
> WOW!!! This is what I have been searching for.
> Might never use the red channel ever again. The green channel with overdrive pedal is absolute perfection. My Les Paul never sounded better!!!




Which Avatar cab do you have? I was looking at the G112 Vintage cab but would try and find one used to save a few bucks. The Blackstar HTV112 cab would also be a descent cab its about the same width as the DSL40 and a lot cheaper.


----------



## Jimmyohio75

J.LaGrassa said:


> Which Avatar cab do you have? I was looking at the G112 Vintage cab but would try and find one used to save a few bucks. The Blackstar HTV112 cab would also be a descent cab its about the same width as the DSL40 and a lot cheaper.



Yes, I have the Avatar Vintage 1x12. Avatar makes great cabs. I have had a bunch of them over the years.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Jimmyohio75 said:


> Yes, I have the Avatar Vintage 1x12. Avatar makes great cabs. I have had a bunch of them over the years.



Nice, thats a good looking cab and kind of has a Marshall look to it, My son has my 4x12 Cab I bought from them back in 2001 for cheap money back then it has 2 V30's and 2 Eminence V12 in it.


----------



## ken361

J.LaGrassa said:


> Nice, thats a good looking cab and kind of has a Marshall look to it, My son has my 4x12 Cab I bought from them back in 2001 for cheap money back then it has 2 V30's and 2 Eminence V12 in it.


hey what guitar brand cables you use?


----------



## J.LaGrassa

ken361 said:


> hey what guitar brand cables you use?



I've been hooked on Fulltone 15' guitar cable, well made and produces good tone!


----------



## ken361

I been using Mogami golds you ever try them?





J.LaGrassa said:


> I've been hooked on Fulltone 15' guitar cable, well made and produces good tone![/QUOT


----------



## J.LaGrassa

ken361 said:


> I been using Mogami golds you ever try them?



never have tried those!


----------



## rlowe

ken361 said:


> I been using Mogami golds you ever try them?


Mogami gold patch and Mogami platinum length cords insure smooth, clear tone and less noise. One drawback...they are a little costy.


----------



## Micky

rlowe said:


> Mogami gold patch and Mogami platinum length cords insure smooth, clear tone and less noise. One drawback...they are a little costy.


I buy Mogami in bulk and make my own custom-length cables.

My new favorite cable is Canare...


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Micky said:


> I buy Mogami in bulk and make my own custom-length cables.
> 
> My new favorite cable is Canare...



I've got a couple of Canare cables I bought years ago, nice cables but havent used them in a long time.


----------



## oachs83

Do the fx loops have any known problems? I am not sure if it's a cable or what as I use the same two cables every time for a gig. The issue is every now and then when I setup at a gig I get no sound. If I bypass the loop it works once I start pulling cables and putting them back into the amp and pedals it eventually works and never fails until I go to setup two or three shows later. Everything is ac powered on my board and I'm suspecting a cable but just making sure there isn't a known problem before I spend $100 on two cables. It's always in the heat of the moment as I setup sound and lights and both cables are the same looking so I am usually scrambling and not marking what cable I fiddled with fixed it. Thanks


----------



## ken361

no issues i believe


----------



## J.LaGrassa

No issues with my loop, try cleaning the jacks with some DEOXIT and see if that helps if its a dirty contact issue.


----------



## G the wildman

Hi guys,

A year back V1 stock went hissy. Marshall sent replacement stocky and all was restored. I only use this amp at home. V1 started hissing again. I replaced with a tad 7025. Its warmer but different class in respect of hearing chimes. I also put a jj in v2. So will play and see how it sounds in general.

Question 1: do I have an underlying problem with V1 or do tubes just do that?

Question 2: do I throw these hissing tubes or do they have uses in other positions or amps?

Thanks guys.

G


----------



## rlowe

G the wildman said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> A year back V1 stock went hissy. Marshall sent replacement stocky and all was restored. I only use this amp at home. V1 started hissing again. I replaced with a tad 7025. Its warmer but different class in respect of hearing chimes. I also put a jj in v2. So will play and see how it sounds in general.
> 
> Question 1: do I have an underlying problem with V1 or do tubes just do that?
> 
> Question 2: do I throw these hissing tubes or do they have uses in other positions or amps?
> 
> Thanks guys.
> 
> G


Hissy? cables too much of something, interference. Dougs tubes preamp recommended set for dsl40c sound great, JJ's are also good. Try Deoxit D5 a good contact cleaner and protector for tubes and sockets. Marshall preamp replacement tubes grey/black/white are harsh as sh..t and I rarely use them.


----------



## Bownse

Don't know if I've posted a sample since splitting my DSL40C into a D5L40 (head and cab).

I'm the baratone lead and sometimes rhythm in the clip. You can better hear me when he's singing. When he takes lead he's so powerful, I step back and do rhythm.

(the room is really reflective and i didn't bother to mic up with any care)

http://www.fjr-tips.org/misc/StopThatTrain.mp3


----------



## rlowe

Bownse said:


> Don't know if I've posted a sample since splitting my DSL40C into a D5L40 (head and cab).
> 
> I'm the baratone lead and sometimes rhythm in the clip. You can better hear me when he's singing. When he takes lead he's so powerful, I step back and do rhythm.
> 
> (the room is really reflective and i didn't bother to mic up with any care)
> 
> http://www.fjr-tips.org/misc/StopThatTrain.mp3


Blues, yea blues brother! When I play blues, I play the Blues. Playing sounded fine.


----------



## Carlo

Hi guys, quick question, had recently set bias to 37mV, if i change powertubes (matched pair JJ EL84), do i have to bias again?
Thanks


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Carlo said:


> Hi guys, quick question, had recently set bias to 37mV, if i change powertubes (matched pair JJ EL84), do i have to bias again?
> Thanks



I'm assuming you meant "JJ EL34" but anyway you should re check your bias everytime you change your power tubes.


----------



## solarburn

Yep. Bias when changing power tubes whether they are the same or different with this amp.

If the amp was Cathode Biased the tubes would be plug and play...no biasing. Amps with auto-biasing as well like my Bugera Infiniums.


----------



## Carlo

shure, EL 34's. Ok, thanks...bias it is


----------



## rlowe

Just got thru firing up the Dsl5c played with speaker 1 x G10R-30 16Ω 10” stock. I haven't played but maybe two x open w/stock speaker since purchased in Oct. 2016, mostly used as a night practice amp with headphones. The Valves used are
3 x ECC83 +
1 x 12BH7 (ECC99) I am using a gold pin for the ECC99. This amp surprises me as far as decent quality sound, volume and Marshall tone. I was considering replacing the stock speaker with a handy broke-in 70/80 to see how it sounds, but as good as it does sound it is of course still not as full or rich as the Dsl40c. Night cap.


----------



## solarburn

Woke up this morn to find I left my amp on stand by all night. Haven't done that in quite awhile hehe.

It happens. Poor lil bugger jus waitn to be played.

Hope the ole lady spanks me for doing it. I like when she spanks...

Anyways...


----------



## solarburn

.


----------



## rlowe

rlowe said:


> Just got thru firing up the Dsl5c played with speaker 1 x G10R-30 16Ω 10” stock. I haven't played but maybe two x open w/stock speaker since purchased in Oct. 2016, mostly used as a night practice amp with headphones. The Valves used are
> 3 x ECC83 +
> 1 x 12BH7 (ECC99) I am using a gold pin for the ECC99. This amp surprises me as far as decent quality sound, volume and Marshall tone. I was considering replacing the stock speaker with a handy broke-in 70/80 to see how it sounds, but as good as it does sound it is of course still not as full or rich as the Dsl40c. Night cap.


Just as a comment on Preamp tubes used w/the Dsl5c. The Dsl5c new came with 1x red lettering preamp tube that is like the ones that come with the Dsl40c. 2x the grey/black/white preamp tubes which are harsh tubes. I replaced the 2 grey/black/whites with the old stock preamp tubes that came stock with my Dsl40c. On the V-nam assembly line I envision an assortment box of different preamp tubes, probably two, maybe three they use. Just sayin' mixed in my amp, and the grey/black/whites are generally sent as replacements from Marshall being a cheaper, and cost saving tube which in turn saves them a little money in the long run. Maybe if Marshall would buy JJ's and stamp Marshall on them, that would be a better tube!


----------



## J.LaGrassa

rlowe said:


> Just as a comment on Preamp tubes used w/the Dsl5c. The Dsl5c new came with 1x red lettering preamp tube that is like the ones that come with the Dsl40c. 2x the grey/black/white preamp tubes which are harsh tubes. I replaced the 2 grey/black/whites with the old stock preamp tubes that came stock with my Dsl40c. On the V-nam assembly line I envision an assortment box of different preamp tubes, probably two, maybe three they use. Just sayin' mixed in my amp, and the grey/black/whites are generally sent as replacements from Marshall being a cheaper, and cost saving tube which in turn saves them a little money in the long run. Maybe if Marshall would buy JJ's and stamp Marshall on them, that would be a better tube!




The 4 Preamp tubes that came with my DSL40 are all the same Marshall 90067 which are JJ tubes, these JJ's have a little more bite to them over the standard JJ ECC83S.


----------



## rlowe

J.LaGrassa said:


> The 4 Preamp tubes that came with my DSL40 are all the same Marshall 90067 which are JJ tubes, these JJ's have a little more bite to them over the standard JJ ECC83S.


If Marshall would issue those special preamp tubes as replacements, that would be nice. I am past the free replacement point, so I stick with what preamp tubes I can find. Yes, those stock preamp tubes do have a bit more bite to them. Earlier in the thread someone stated these were JJ's with a tin plate special run.


----------



## Carlo

rlowe said:


> I have 2 Gibsons, Les paul studio with 490r and 498t PU's. The standard has Burstbucker Pros PU's, and both guitar's sound great with the amp. It could be any number of things, pickup height too close, preamp tubes, power tubes. Many tru-bypass pedals without buffer, long cable runs can steal your higher frequency's thru capacitance. The Gibson Les paul is a naturally darker sounding guitar, but with setup and adjustments on amp and pedal board you should get a good sound. Another thing you can try is a MXR 10 band EQ, or any EQ pedal for that matter!


----------



## Carlo

Someting went wrong with this quote, anyway, i took my Les Paul to a Professional and had him set it up properly, biggest issue was indeed the pickup height, a major improvement all is well.
In the mean time i changed the speaker in my other Dsl40 for a Texas Heat, another major improvement. Now i have two stock speakers laying around, from which i plan to build a 2x12 cab. My question is, should i leave the back ( partly) open or completely closed, what would be better for these Celestions 70/80s?
Thanks
Carlo


----------



## ken361

Im putting the 70/80 back in and see how it is since my amps broken in and biased correctly cool!, its pretty close to a greenback. The WGS speakers are darker and have more bass, I did a lot of listening to a lot of comparisons of speakers and the 70/80's hold up and even sound better then some. With having that vintage tones.

Everyone and my self once they hear a warmer speaker its like its better but sometimes in reality its masking the true tones! Jim B. stock amp sounded just great! Most people pull the speaker way before its even broken in, it takes like 120 hrs or so based on a company that breaks in speakers. I might hate it but will see


----------



## ken361

prb


Carlo said:


> Someting went wrong with this quote, anyway, i took my Les Paul to a Professional and had him set it up properly, biggest issue was indeed the pickup height, a major improvement all is well.
> In the mean time i changed the speaker in my other Dsl40 for a Texas Heat, another major improvement. Now i have two stock speakers laying around, from which i plan to build a 2x12 cab. My question is, should i leave the back ( partly) open or completely closed, what would be better for these Celestions 70/80s?
> Thanks
> Carlo


 closed back! everyyyy amp I get I re adjust my pickups playing loud and dialing in the sweet spot! Most humbuckers bridge I have it set at 1/8th bass side and 1/16 treble side and raise the poles pieces to the radius of the bridge about 2 turns up towards at the 3rd and 4 th string and a little lower on 2nd and 5th string


----------



## Micky

Seventy/80's sound great in a closed back cab...


----------



## Carlo

Well, i played this Amp for about 100 hours pretty loud at our practice location, i assume the stock speaker was been broken in by now...Still not entirely happy with its sound. The Texas Heat gives it that little extra for my taste. Then again, cant argue about sound. By the way, i stumbled over a new Epi SG Pro which was a Send back (you call it that?) in my Guitar Store, i couldnt resist (GAS-attack) and took it home. What a great guitar for that price, coil tapping gives it a enormous sound variation. These new Alnico HBs are great.
thanks for your advice on my future cab


----------



## rlowe

Carlo said:


> Someting went wrong with this quote, anyway, i took my Les Paul to a Professional and had him set it up properly, biggest issue was indeed the pickup height, a major improvement all is well.
> In the mean time i changed the speaker in my other Dsl40 for a Texas Heat, another major improvement. Now i have two stock speakers laying around, from which i plan to build a 2x12 cab. My question is, should i leave the back ( partly) open or completely closed, what would be better for these Celestions 70/80s?
> Thanks
> Carlo


The Celestion 70/80's sound good in a closed back cab. I have a Mx112 ext. cab w/single Celestion 70/80 stock, I use the two 8ohm jacks on back of Dsl40c, one to 40c speaker, one to ext. cab.


----------



## ken361

want to get a second cab someday


----------



## Bownse

When I split it into a head and 2x12 cab, I went with closed back and have been happy.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

ken361 said:


> want to get a second cab someday



Same here, amp would probably sound huge pushing another speaker. Blackstar has a oversized 1x12 cab thats about the same width as the DSL, used prices are pretty good on those roughly a $150.


----------



## ken361

I just installed the 70/80 playing at bedroom level wow it sounds warm! but good. I was expecting bright and harsh some like it was stock but that bias was at 39/41 I think. I had the everything at 5 its sounds very similar to the ET65 with my EVH guitar bias at 30ma from my tech.

The mids were not bright but its sounds a little more ballsy with some punch in there. I hope it opens up more with tone it sounds like its broken in already lol seriously.

Amps do break in with circuits, tubes,transformers,caps


----------



## DaneSN2017

Micky said:


> Index to this thread here:
> 
> Side Handle Photos: The Official Marshall DSL40c Information Thread
> Gut Shot Photos: The Official Marshall DSL40c Information Thread
> C19 Cap Mod Photos: The Official Marshall DSL40c Information Thread
> ClassicTone OT Replacement: http://www.marshallforum.com/index....nformation-thread.53780/page-146#post-1232202
> 
> Feel free to post your mods & other DSL40c related content here.
> This thread is for others to reference when looking for vital info.
> 
> Many of these posts should be relavent to the DSL100h as well as the DSL15, as all the newer DSL amps now share many common features & components. For example, the DSL100h uses the same chassis and internal board and components of the DSL40c, except it has 2 more output tubes as well as the extra related components.
> 
> I will start with a couple of photos in this thread, and add more photos in other posts as I don't want each post to be too 'pic-heavy'. If anyone has any requests for photos of specific components or areas of the 40c please let me know and I will shoot them next time I pull the chassis from the case.
> 
> I would also like to link all the other DSL40c threads here, as they contain some great posts as well as a lot of good information. Feel free to add whatever you want as long as it is related.
> 
> First I would like to state that I am NOT a great guitar player, and I WON'T be posting any clips. Although I used to play in a cover band back in the late '70s, my skill has not kept up with the times. Others are much more talented here and I am sure there will be a few to offer some demos. What I WILL post here is some relavent info, and a bunch of photos. So here goes.
> 
> The DSL40c is Marshalls newest DSL, along with the DSL100h head version and the DSL15h and DSL15c. These amps are made in Vietnam. Before you start to poo-poo this new line for being made overseas, rest assured these are built to Marshalls specifications. In my opinion, they are made as well, if not better than anything made in the UK or even in the USA. The boards inside appear to be wave-soldered hi-quality PC boards, and the components are well-spaced and symmetric.
> 
> The case appears to be HDF, not MDF. It seems much tougher and harder than MDF, although it is still not birch ply. Personally I don't think it matters much, I have seen ply crushed as easily as anything else, but the true test will be over time. I got a good look when I cut the sides of the case open for some new handles.
> 
> Yes, I have already drilled and cut the case, one of the first mods so far. Many of you wil notice this amp doesn't have any side handles, and because I am getting a bit older (and a bit wiser as well) I felt I needed to add some decent metal handles. It will allow for two people to carry the amp as well as allow easier placing of the amp on top of another cab. With the speaker replacement, this amp now weighs 55 pounds, and I feel that is a bit much for the top handle alone.
> 
> Here is a photo of the installed handles:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You need to measure VERY carefully, as one might have a tendency to want to mount the handles high, near the top. The particular metal handles I uses have a bit of depth to them, I mounted them so the PT and OT clear them by about 1/4 inch. I can provide dimensions if anyone needs them.
> 
> Gut shots and other info to follow...


----------



## DaneSN2017

Can anyone tell me why my dsl40c momentarily cuts out during play? I can;t seem to pinpoint any patterns as to when this happens but its been happening more frequently lately and I would love to address the problem...Its on the regular distortion channel and is usually turned up to about 6 on volume and 6 on gain...


----------



## J.LaGrassa

ken361 said:


> I just installed the 70/80 playing at bedroom level wow it sounds warm! but good. I was expecting bright and harsh some like it was stock but that bias was at 39/41 I think. I had the everything at 5 its sounds very similar to the ET65 with my EVH guitar bias at 30ma from my tech.
> 
> The mids were not bright but its sounds a little more ballsy with some punch in there. I hope it opens up more with tone it sounds like its broken in already lol seriously.
> 
> Amps do break in with circuits, tubes,transformers,caps




It will definitely get better with time and VOLUME  I know mine sounds a lot better and no where near as harsh the more I use it, I will be trying out the Neo Creamback tomorrow I've been real curious about that one.


----------



## Bownse

DaneSN2017 said:


> Can anyone tell me why my dsl40c momentarily cuts out during play? I can;t seem to pinpoint any patterns as to when this happens but its been happening more frequently lately and I would love to address the problem...Its on the regular distortion channel and is usually turned up to about 6 on volume and 6 on gain...



If it's on the increase it could be a tube. Intermittant failure because of vibration is the bane of combo tube amps.


----------



## whitecloud

ken361 said:


> I just installed the 70/80 playing at bedroom level wow it sounds warm! but good. I was expecting bright and harsh some like it was stock but that bias was at 39/41 I think. I had the everything at 5 its sounds very similar to the ET65 with my EVH guitar bias at 30ma from my tech.
> 
> The mids were not bright but its sounds a little more ballsy with some punch in there. I hope it opens up more with tone it sounds like its broken in already lol seriously.
> 
> Amps do break in with circuits, tubes,transformers,caps


My seventy/80 is in a box put away and a friend was supposed to send me His(taken from a Marshall 1x12 when he got his ET-65) and I am just one speaker short of throwing those speakers in a closed back 4x12. It will be x/y with some Private Jacks. I imagine I won't be putting a mic on the 70/80's. Happy for you but I played the stock speaker long enough to know I hate it. I would of kept the WSG Retro30 in the DSL but that speaker works so well with my Orange and VHT amps going into a 1x12 cab. So for now breaking in a WSG Veteran 30 so for me it was all a matter of how I set the controls on the amp with either Warehouse speaker. So yeah a big fan and disagree about them "masking the tone" And if that were the case one could argue the 70/80 adds something as well. And from what I gather from most comments, not in a flattering way. Seems like if you want to go Celestion a V type or Vintage 30 would be the way to go.


----------



## solarburn

I think we need to factor in guitar and pups effecting results too as we each talk about how one player prefers/or doesn't the same speaker in the same amp model. Tubes being a given.

I've played a V series, veteran 30, V 30, 70/80 and G12M's with mine.

With both my guitars using Super D's and stock tubes, I liked the 70/80 best. The G12M's were also excellent. These worked best with my pedals too. The other speakers were ok.

Ears are different too. Hard for me to tell another what works best for me is what they should get. Course I have no problem saying for me I like a certain speaker taking into account what makes my gear chain sound the way it does into the same amp. And it ain't my fingers.


----------



## Len

Bownse said:


> When I split it into a head and 2x12 cab, I went with closed back and have been happy.


Me too.


----------



## ken361

70/80 never cranked straight out of the box

55hr on the ET


----------



## SteelLucky

DaneSN2017 said:


> Can anyone tell me why my dsl40c momentarily cuts out during play? I can;t seem to pinpoint any patterns as to when this happens but its been happening more frequently lately and I would love to address the problem...Its on the regular distortion channel and is usually turned up to about 6 on volume and 6 on gain...



Check all your cables. Happen with different guitars? Swap the V4 (PI) with a known good tube.


----------



## SteelLucky

J.LaGrassa said:


> It will definitely get better with time and VOLUME  I know mine sounds a lot better and no where near as harsh the more I use it, I will be trying out the Neo Creamback tomorrow I've been real curious about that one.



Neo Creamback, will be interesting to hear your thoughts comparing it to the V-Type.


----------



## ken361

whitecloud said:


> My seventy/80 is in a box put away and a friend was supposed to send me His(taken from a Marshall 1x12 when he got his ET-65) and I am just one speaker short of throwing those speakers in a closed back 4x12. It will be x/y with some Private Jacks. I imagine I won't be putting a mic on the 70/80's. Happy for you but I played the stock speaker long enough to know I hate it. I would of kept the WSG Retro30 in the DSL but that speaker works so well with my Orange and VHT amps going into a 1x12 cab. So for now breaking in a WSG Veteran 30 so for me it was all a matter of how I set the controls on the amp with either Warehouse speaker. So yeah a big fan and disagree about them "masking the tone" And if that were the case one could argue the 70/80 adds something as well. And from what I gather from most comments, not in a flattering way. Seems like if you want to go Celestion a V type or Vintage 30 would be the way to go.





whitecloud said:


> My seventy/80 is in a box put away and a friend was supposed to send me His(taken from a Marshall 1x12 when he got his ET-65) and I am just one speaker short of throwing those speakers in a closed back 4x12. It will be x/y with some Private Jacks. I imagine I won't be putting a mic on the 70/80's. Happy for you but I played the stock speaker long enough to know I hate it. I would of kept the WSG Retro30 in the DSL but that speaker works so well with my Orange and VHT amps going into a 1x12 cab. So for now breaking in a WSG Veteran 30 so for me it was all a matter of how I set the controls on the amp with either Warehouse speaker. So yeah a big fan and disagree about them "masking the tone" And if that were the case one could argue the 70/80 adds something as well. And from what I gather from most comments, not in a flattering way. Seems like if you want to go Celestion a V type or Vintage 30 would be the way to go.


I would of checked out the creambacks but my funds are low and dont care for v30 in some cases. The Veteran 30 sounds very close to the celestion but darker some


----------



## J.LaGrassa

SteelLucky said:


> Neo Creamback, will be interesting to hear your thoughts comparing it to the V-Type.



Hopefully it's not to warm sounding, I will actually get to use it with my band tonight so that will be a great test to see how it cuts and responds to my playing.


----------



## ken361

J.LaGrassa said:


> Hopefully it's not to warm sounding, I will actually get to use it with my band tonight so that will be a great test to see how it cuts and responds to my playing.


I think the greens and the creams have that extra mid hump over the 70/80 well the greens sure sounded a bit louder then the 80 in the mids were the creams were tamed in the mids and highs listening to that one video. Either way it should sound good!!


----------



## whitecloud

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I think we need to factor in guitar and pups effecting results too as we each talk about how one player prefers/or doesn't the same speaker in the same amp model. Tubes being a given.
> 
> I've played a V series, veteran 30, V 30, 70/80 and G12M's with mine.
> 
> With both my guitars using Super D's and stock tubes, I liked the 70/80 best. The G12M's were also excellent. These worked best with my pedals too. The other speakers were ok.
> 
> Ears are different too. Hard for me to tell another what works best for me is what they should get. Course I have no problem saying for me I like a certain speaker taking into account what makes my gear chain sound the way it does into the same amp. And it ain't my fingers.


Yes of course many things to factor in. However I have thrown all sorts of different guitars and pickups and pedals at the 70/80 and wasn't pleased. The Eminence Private Jack, WSG Retro 30 & Vet 30 all performed well above the stock speaker. Just made slight adjustments with the latter 3. The 70/80 was just too much work and still came up short.


----------



## ken361

go listen my demo above and thats right out of the box, this speaker sounds much different then when the amp was new I know for sure. Totally not harsh amp break in and bias was huge difference. I will know more thusday but I can tell right it might be good might have to add more treble before I set it at 3 and pres 3 now its on 5


----------



## whitecloud

ken361 said:


> I would of checked out the creambacks but my funds are low and dont care for v30 in some cases. The Veteran 30 sounds very close to the celestion but darker some


When I compared the 70/80 in the DSL vs an Eminence PJ in a 1x12 there was something about the breakup with the Celestion that was almost there and while the Private Jack sounded better overall, thought it also lacked something. So when I researched the WSG speakers what I was hearing from clips and descriptions of the ET-65 that it may be a bit similar to the Private Jack so a somewhat balanced speaker but perhaps missing a bit of Mojo. So I pulled the trigger on the Retro 30 and was very pleased. Even though I bought and installed a Vet 30 in the DSL, I can still utilize the Retro 30 either alone or in tandem with the Vet 30. Now lets look at those unhappy with the OEM speaker(s) in some other amps included ones not a Marshall. You just don't see many running to buy a seventy/80 for an upgrade. To me that really says something and you can pick them up new @MF for like 70 bucks. Or say the other way around. Buy a cheaper Marshall cab because of the Logo Script and those ones MDF with the 70/80's. Many will toss those aside and go with some of the American companies or higher up the Celestion food chain.


----------



## ken361

I think I heard your stuff not too impressed lol


----------



## ken361




----------



## ken361

yeah jims sounds pretty bad lol


----------



## whitecloud

ken361 said:


> go listen my demo above and thats right out of the box, this speaker sounds much different then when the amp was new I know for sure. Totally not harsh amp break in and bias was huge difference. I will know more thusday but I can tell right it might be good might have to add more treble before I set it at 3 and pres 3 now its on 5


I checked them out but doesn't sway me either way. Your happy that's cool. The tones I am getting now have me very excited almost ecstatic. Haven't upgraded the tubes, did buy some tools to check the bias so will get around to that but there really is no chasing the dragon need right now. I am spending time recording actual songs vs sound clips the later I've done too much over past several years. At some point soon I'll share some snippets of these songs. I have found use for pretty much all aspects of this amp both channels clean or crunch, Ld 1 or Ld2 Pedals or no pedals. Depends on the riffs, genre and guitars used. So for me I find it puzzling when some dis this amp and yeah you still can get the 70/80 to work for you, it just seems like more heavy lifting.


----------



## DaneSN2017

Bownse said:


> If it's on the increase it could be a tube. Intermittant failure because of vibration is the bane of combo tube amps.


Hey man thanks for the response. I probably sound like a noob, but is there anyway that I would be able to identify whether its a tube versus a soldering issue? Maybe a loose connection?


----------



## DaneSN2017

SteelLucky said:


> Check all your cables. Happen with different guitars? Swap the V4 (PI) with a known good tube.


Just saw this I'm still getting the hang of this thread stuff... It happens with my les paul as well as my strat...again theres never a rhyme or reason usually its totally random, but I'm getting ready to play a show in a few weeks and would like to have this problem resolved. Someone else also mentioned it could be a tube. I really appreciate the insight!


----------



## J.LaGrassa

"Holy Thickness Batman" Just installed the Neo Creamback and first impression is it's definitely a quality made and sweet sounding speaker and nothing harsh with this guy, sounds nice and fat and warm. EQ wise I have most of the pots set at 12:00 but mids at about 11:30 and the speaker has that nice low end not too soft and not too stiff, will see how well it is in a band context tonight.

Here is a tiny sound sample of the speaker with stock tubes and my Gibson SG Faded.


----------



## ken361

J.LaGrassa said:


> "Holy Thickness Batman" Just installed the Neo Creamback and first impression is it's definitely a quality made and sweet sounding speaker and nothing harsh with this guy, sounds nice and fat and warm. EQ wise I have most of the pots set at 12:00 but mids at about 11:30 and the speaker has that nice low end not too soft and not too stiff, will see how well it is in a band context tonight.
> 
> Here is a tiny sound sample of the speaker with stock tubes and my Gibson SG Faded.



low bias still? sounds good


----------



## J.LaGrassa

ken361 said:


> low bias still? sounds good




Yep!, stock TAD power tubes at 30mA


----------



## solarburn

Think I've only gone as low as 33mv bias. At 36mv now.

I may try 30mv and see what it feels and sounds like soon. Been awhile since I checked bias anyways.


----------



## solarburn

J.LaGrassa said:


> "Holy Thickness Batman" Just installed the Neo Creamback and first impression is it's definitely a quality made and sweet sounding speaker and nothing harsh with this guy, sounds nice and fat and warm. EQ wise I have most of the pots set at 12:00 but mids at about 11:30 and the speaker has that nice low end not too soft and not too stiff, will see how well it is in a band context tonight.
> 
> Here is a tiny sound sample of the speaker with stock tubes and my Gibson SG Faded.




Sounds good.

How much did it lighten the weight of the amp?


----------



## ken361

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Think I've only gone as low as 33mv bias. At 36mv now.
> 
> I may try 30mv and see what it feels and sounds like soon. Been awhile since I checked bias anyways.


has your amp warmed up over the years? like trying speakers before and then now? I ask because the 70/80 seems way less bright like it was, going to blast it thus


----------



## solarburn

ken361 said:


> has your amp warmed up over the years? like trying speakers before and then now? I ask because the 70/80 seems way less bright like it was, going to blast it thus



I think so. I had put warmer preamp tubes a few times in the beginning to mellow a harsh topend. Now I've got the stock ones in and find it fine. Saving my ANOS gems for now.

I know speaker break in keeps happening. It doesn't jus stop. It will happen till the speaker gets too relaxed or blows. My 70/80 has 3yrs on it.

I play mine at high volume the majority of playing time cause I can and that's where this amp opens up, speaker pumps and fizz goes away. It sounds good at low volume too.


----------



## ken361

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I think so. I had put warmer preamp tubes a few times in the beginning to mellow a harsh topend. Now I've got the stock ones in and find it fine. Saving my ANOS gems for now.
> 
> I know speaker break in keeps happening. It doesn't jus stop. It will happen till the speaker gets too relaxed or blows.
> 
> I play mine at high volume the majority of playing time cause I can and that's where this amp opens up and fizz goes away. It sounds good at low volume too.


im usually using some nos and now stock lol


----------



## solarburn

ken361 said:


> im usually using some nos and now stock lol



LOL.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Sounds good.
> 
> How much did it lighten the weight of the amp?



not much it's about 3 lbs lighter!


----------



## solarburn

J.LaGrassa said:


> not much it's about 3 lbs lighter!



Yeah that's not much.

It's the daem MDF cab.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Yeah that's not much.
> 
> It's the daem MDF cab.




Got that right, I hate lugging this thing around due to the weight.


----------



## BanditPanda

J.LaGrassa said:


> Got that right, I hate lugging this thing around due to the weight.




Seriously, separating the head from the body is the way to go ! ( Not that I have but I would if I needed to )


----------



## Bownse

ken361 said:


>




Nice potted plant. Needs to turn up his vocal during the description (or fade the backing track more).
Nice demo.


----------



## Bownse

BanditPanda said:


> Seriously, separating the head from the body is the way to go ! ( Not that I have but I would if I needed to )



http://www.fjr-tips.org/misc/amp/DSL40C_Mod/A_Project.html


----------



## ken361

played loud today for 2 hrs dam thats loud! I did get the brightness but i will give it more time to smooth out. Later I ended up putting my selected tubes back in RFT v1 v2 JJ803 V3 Chinese and the LPS v4 I need to try loud though but it took off the edge off the stock JJ which I never really cared for but seem to add the brightness with WGS speaker

This time I mic'd it near the cone, with this vocal mic it was making it too dark, it sounds much better IMO
Quick sample


----------



## J.LaGrassa

ken361 said:


> played loud today for 2 hrs dam thats loud! I did get the brightness but i will give it more time to smooth out. Later I ended up putting my selected tubes back in RFT v1 v2 JJ803 V3 Chinese and the LPS v4 I need to try loud though but it took off the edge off the stock JJ which I never really cared for but seem to add the brightness with WGS speaker
> 
> This time I mic'd it near the cone, with this vocal mic it was making it too dark, it sounds much better IMO
> Quick sample





Keep breaking that in.. loud is good!


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Tried out a different tube combination today, I put in 2 Tung-Sol RI 12AX7 in V1 & V2 and 2 JJ ECC83S in V3 & V4 and for power tubes I installed a pair of GT EL34M biased at 60%. Sounds good so far I tried it with the Neo Creamback and then the V-Type and actually like the tone and feel of V-Type more than the Neo. The Tung Sol add some clarity and nice gain but not too much, the GT EL34M are also clearer but not too bright like the TAD and has a nice low end!


----------



## ken361

If you have some unwanted brightness some NOS tubes does wonders


----------



## ken361

J.LaGrassa said:


> Tried out a different tube combination today, I put in 2 Tung-Sol RI 12AX7 in V1 & V2 and 2 JJ ECC83S in V3 & V4 and for power tubes I installed a pair of GT EL34M biased at 60%. Sounds good so far I tried it with the Neo Creamback and then the V-Type and actually like the tone and feel of V-Type more than the Neo. The Tung Sol add some clarity and nice gain but not too much, the GT EL34M are also clearer but not too bright like the TAD and has a nice low end!
> 
> I almost gave up on this amp due to shoulder pain but came back to my senses, I like this amp too much to let it go despite it being a bit heavy to lug around.


The fold up dollys are pretty nice my GF has one


----------



## J.LaGrassa

ken361 said:


> The fold up dollys are pretty nice my GF has one




I have a nice one but where I practice every week the dolly doesnt work to well on dirt. I just have to stop carrying the amp with one hand.


----------



## ken361

try walking backwards with it?


----------



## Bownse

We'll start the GoPro and get the popcorn ready.


----------



## BanditPanda

J.LaGrassa said:


> I have a nice one but where I practice every week the dolly doesnt work to well on dirt. I just have to stop carrying the amp with one hand.



Micky posted how he put side handles on his DSL40C.
That makes the amp much more manageable but no less awkward and heavy.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

BanditPanda said:


> Micky posted how he put side handles on his DSL40C.
> That makes the amp much more manageable but no less awkward and heavy.



That may be worth doing, I use to have the TSL122 that had the side handles that was a nice feature... that amp was rediculously heavy!


----------



## Bownse

I have a set of those that I opted NOT to use when I split mines into head/cab.

$10 ea + shipping to anyone who wants them. PM if interested and I'll go find them in my spares box.


----------



## ken361

Well after a 2 hr break in on the stock speaker the other day at my house and then now at my girls condo which is a little warmer sounding the first 15 in of jamming loud I'm impressed! nothing !!!!!!!! like it was from the factory set up. The treb and pres at 5 was just right and the bass response was very close to the WGS speakers, I like the celestion better on the bass and its not near broken in! Moral of the story again the bias!!!!!!!! and the preamp tubes does wonders the stock was too bright!! One thing I used my cheap Epiphone Les Paul which does not have a maple cap to brighten it up some but still it . The Tungsol power tubes help also. Will see how it going as the break in goes the mids need to smooth out some but not too bad


----------



## ken361

Put the stock pre's and kinda like it now tighter bass and added highs and louder some. I think my other tubes have some wear on them over the years


----------



## J.LaGrassa

I'm still liking the 2 Tung-Sol 12AX7 I installed in V1 & V2, The GT EL34M much better than the Stock TAD power tubes. Sounds killer with the V-Type speaker


----------



## solarburn

Been messing around with the crunch channel boosted just a tad with my Radial Elevator pedal. It has a 5+/10+ decibal mid boost switch on it.

Right now using the 10+ and its mids galore but not unmusical...jus a healthy amount. Daem is this amp capable of so many shades of classical rock. My fingers hurt I'm having so much fun.

That is the measuring stick for me. When my calluses hurt then the amp is my kind of amp. I can't stop playing. Stock speaker/stock tubes. Weird.


----------



## BanditPanda

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Been messing around with the crunch channel boosted just a tad with my Radial Elevator pedal. It has a 5+/10+ decibal mid boost switch on it.
> 
> Right now using the 10+ and its mids galore but not unmusical...jus a healthy amount. Daem is this amp capable of so many shades of classical rock. My fingers heart I'm having so much fun.
> 
> That is the measuring stick for me. When my calluses heart then the amp is my kind of amp. I can't stop playing. Stock speaker/stock tubes. Weird.



All's well in Wetville


----------



## solarburn

Also broke out my Mark Tremonti wah. Been awhile. On the Green crunch channel using the wah's built in boost it gets it on. Usually I use my JC wah cause its more classic and the sweep is adjustable. Easy to get it sweet.

The MT wah can do a mellow wah although I find its best for high gain wah-ing.LOL Plus it activates when you move the pedal. Switch less.

I'm having fun with it too and really finding a use for its built in boost knob or pot. Playing along with these guys...


----------



## solarburn

OK. The Jerry Cantrell wah is my fav. Suits my playing and its more vocal.

Jus played it and my girl?...well. She felt it like when she's sitting on a Harley with some lope. She said something about hitting it?

Anyways Marshall does it again. Now if I could just get my dog from ass scooting down the hallway I'd be content.


----------



## rlowe

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Also broke out my Mark Tremonti wah. Been awhile. On the Green crunch channel using the wah's built in boost it gets it on. Usually I use my JC wah cause its more classic and the sweep is adjustable. Easy to get it sweet.
> 
> The MT wah can do a mellow wah although I find its best for high gain wah-ing.LOL Plus it activates when you move the pedal. Switch less.
> 
> I'm having fun with it too and really finding a use for its built in boost knob or pot. Playing along with these guys...



I am using a JB wah Vintage/Modern design components. I passed up on the Mark Tremonti red dragon wah, good wah pedal, might get one down the road. Like the photo eye on MT's, much easier operation.


----------



## solarburn

T


rlowe said:


> I am using a JB wah Vintage/Modern design components. I passed up on the Mark Tremonti red dragon wah, good wah pedal, might get one down the road. Like the photo eye on MT's, much easier operation.



The JC wah sounds better for mid gain and lower. The MT rips at High Gain.


----------



## ken361

Love me a wah again


----------



## BanditPanda

solarburnDSL50 said:


> OK. The Jerry Cantrell wah is my fav. Suits my playing and its more vocal.
> 
> Jus played it and my girl?...well. She felt it like when she's sitting on a Harley with some lope. She said something about hitting it?
> 
> Anyways Marshall does it again. Now if I could just get my dog from ass scooting down the hallway I'd be content.



Here's hoping it's not carpeted! lol


----------



## BanditPanda

solarburnDSL50 said:


> OK.
> 
> Jus played it and my girl?...well. She felt it like when she's sitting on a Harley with some lope. She said something about hitting it?
> 
> 
> Lope:
> Acronym for "Liking Of Penal Essence" .
> Antonym of the acronym love which stands for "Liking Of Vaginal Essence".
> ok I get it....oh wait...you're talking about the Harley !! lmao


----------



## dave999z

Added a bicolor LED to my aftermarket footswitch!

Requires power, but that's fine because it's going on a pedal board.

The way it's currently wired, the amp's reverb just stays off (which is what I want - I never use this amp's built in reverb). Could add a toggle on the back to turn the reverb on/off, but definitely don't need or want reverb on a footswitch (hence the single footswitch).

I might put a higher resistor on the red LED, because it's a little brighter than the green. Couldn't get the green to glow any brighter, but it looks quite good. Getting a diffused light LED is the key to it being visible from any angle.

Footswitch was like $15. Other parts negligible.


----------



## Michaeld13

ken361 said:


> Well after a 2 hr break in on the stock speaker the other day at my house and then now at my girls condo which is a little warmer sounding the first 15 in of jamming loud I'm impressed! nothing !!!!!!!! like it was from the factory set up. The treb and pres at 5 was just right and the bass response was very close to the WGS speakers, I like the celestion better on the bass and its not near broken in! Moral of the story again the bias!!!!!!!! and the preamp tubes does wonders the stock was too bright!! One thing I used my cheap Epiphone Les Paul which does not have a maple cap to brighten it up some but still it . The Tungsol power tubes help also. Will see how it going as the break in goes the mids need to smooth out some but not too bad



Ken, what did you notice with the bias above? Settings?


----------



## ken361

Michaeld13 said:


> Ken, what did you notice with the bias above? Settings?


Think originally the bias was at 39/41 for 8 months. Then went threw a few set of tubes running at 36 and 34 then months later my tech set it at 30 and I went back to humbuckers guitars I could tell some i had a bit more low end so I wanted to try the stock one again and that was new but it didnt seem as bright when the amp was new. So maybe the bias and the amps break in seemed to sound best now


----------



## Michaeld13

Ok. Thank you. I think mine is at 37. Everything is stock... But man running on the clean channel with a distortion pedal I can't think of a better sound- so I'm afraid to touch anything right now


----------



## BanditPanda

Michaeld13 said:


> Ok. Thank you. I think mine is at 37. Everything is stock... But man running on the clean channel with a distortion pedal I can't think of a better sound- so I'm afraid to touch anything right now



Michael..there a few here who really dig that Green & Clean, including me.!
Something I learned from Solarburn on here...max out the gain on the Green & Clean. Then dial in your pedal to taste
See what that does for ya.


----------



## ken361

Not too shabby for 5hrs on the speaker its actually a lot smoother on the top end over WGS


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## Micky

WSG?


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## ken361

Warehouse speakers,fixed lol


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## BanditPanda

Micky said:


> WSG?


WGS = Warehouse Guitar Speakers


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## Micky

ken361 said:


> Warehouse speakers,fixed lol


Sorry, I should have known.


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## J.LaGrassa

ken361 said:


> Not too shabby for 5hrs on the speaker its actually a lot smoother on the top end over WGS





Sounding good Ken!


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## whitecloud

ken361 said:


> Not too shabby for 5hrs on the speaker its actually a lot smoother on the top end over WGS



So this is just the seventy/80 and not a shootout vs the ET-65? Sounds good nonetheless. Still dig either of my WGS speakers and I suppose one should just go with whatever works best for them


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## ken361

just the 70/80 im going to give it some time and see how it turns out.


----------



## solarburn

New phone recording. Pedal on the crunch straight in on L2.


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## ken361

should mic that baby up and use a cheap interface like i do,found a Mobile Pre for 25.00 plug into the computer


----------



## solarburn

This phone sux compared to my other.

Mike's pedal on green crunch...


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## ken361

its got good gain sounds good


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## solarburn

Ken. Get Mike's pedal. It mixes so good. I've got better from it too.

It will make a Marshall voiced amp sound more naughty.


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## solarburn

.


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## rlowe

solarburnDSL50 said:


> This phone sux compared to my other.
> 
> Mike's pedal on green crunch...



What is Mikes pedal? I have 3 various OD's on board, and 1 Full bore distortion which is killer!


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## ken361

theres a website called mikes pedals


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## rlowe

ken361 said:


> theres a website called mikes pedals


I'll check that out, always interesting to see what's currently on the market.


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## rlowe

ken361 said:


> theres a website called mikes pedals


I found a website called Mikes mods. Basic pedals can be modded for the pro and hobbyist alike to achieve an otherwise possibly unachievable sound. Another thing you can do is combine different types of pedal with EQ capabilities. I could go endlessly tweaking the different pedals on my board, and amp.


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## ken361

yeah I just looked up his site, wish I could do all that stuff


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## rlowe

There are many good Overdrive/distortion pedals that can go well with this amp. Rothwell hellbender OD has different gain stages and can go from crunch to full on saturated ( a bit dark, warm but effective). Archer OD is much brighter and is basically the same as the old Klon circuit (transparent, clean). Ibanez Ts9 for that classic textured sound goes good with Marshall amps. Mxr Full bore metal distortion is a very strong pedal with a built-in noise gate to sharpen the attack of syncopated rhythms and cut noise. And if that wont do it, you still have the drive circuits on the amp.


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## Michaeld13

BanditPanda said:


> Michael..there a few here who really dig that Green & Clean, including me.!
> Something I learned from Solarburn on here...max out the gain on the Green & Clean. Then dial in your pedal to taste
> See what that does for ya.



I tried that but found 6 on the gain is where I had it and and thought it sounded best- it also gets pretty loud at home with the gain maxed- the volume needs to be barely on- so I'll wait to try it again when I have a more opportune time to turn it up. But what I find really fascinating/interesting is how different amps make you sound- I have a Vox Night Train that I really like (although am liking it less now that I have this Marshall) - but I thought a clean channel is a clean channel- I mean when I play my Marshall on the clean and my Vox on the clean, they sound pretty similar without any effects- but when I kick on my pedals for the distortion they sound *worlds* apart. Huge difference. The Vox sounds pretty bad- the Marshall sounds like... perfect. When I click on a fuzz the Vox sounds killer- and the Marshall sounds killer as well- also quite different. I guess what I'm finding are amps make the biggest difference in how you are going to sound- so many pedals and so many amps really make for infinite tone possibilities- *glad* I found this Marshall clean and pedal combo - It puts my metal in overdrive  I did some sound clips a while back demoing my pedals. Not that the lead channels on the amp are bad, but they are very hissy/noisy- super quiet with high gain on the clean with pedals though.


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## ken361

Coming in Saturday afternoon with only 6 hrs on the speaker it was sounding nice then Sunday another 2 loud hours sounding really good cranking the red 1 at 4 or so! Plenty of low end at the condo which has good acoustics as much as the Warehouse speakers but a bit more defined and tighter!!

I like the Celestion bite and mids it has,being a low mid amp it works great for cutting through with out being harsh and too bright like it was before! Low bias,break in,Tungsol power tubes its fat dynamic and cuts. The JJ pre's add the iceing also,the amp was probley designed around those tubes and even the speaker probably. I used so many different tubes including NOS and I hated JJ in the past but it works with this amp.I can run the treble at 6 and mids at 7 and still sound good and not overly bright like before.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

ken361 said:


> Coming in Saturday afternoon with only 6 hrs on the speaker it was sounding nice then Sunday another 2 loud hours sounding really good cranking the red 1 at 4 or so! Plenty of low end at the condo which has good acoustics as much as the Warehouse speakers but a bit more defined and tighter!!
> 
> I like the Celestion bite and mids it has,being a low mid amp it works great for cutting through with out being harsh and too bright like it was before! Low bias,break in,Tungsol power tubes its fat dynamic and cuts. The JJ pre's add the iceing also,the amp was probley designed around those tubes and even the speaker probably. I used so many different tubes including NOS and I hated JJ in the past but it works with this amp.I can run the treble at 6 and mids at 7 and still sound good and not overly bright like before.




I think JJ's work real good with the DSL


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## rlowe

ken361 said:


> just the 70/80 im going to give it some time and see how it turns out.


Ken, I have broken in the 70/80 from stock and it sounded basically good. I then installed a Celestion Vintage 30 which was a dramatic improvement. The 70/80 now sits tucked away in a box. $70.00 speaker vs. $149.00 speaker. Sweetwater currently has a refurbished 70/80 price: $29.99


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## ken361

sounds better then my wgs speakers by some, sometimes they sounded better over v30's in some vids and people agreed and the creamsbacks


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## ken361

`
crappy guitar tone but doesnt blow it away like them for metal though


----------



## ken361




----------



## ken361




----------



## ken361

8hrs on


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## BanditPanda

Ken...now keep those exact same settings, put in the 65 and lets hear it.
Personally that demo did not impress.


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## ken361

BanditPanda said:


> Ken...now keep those exact same settings, put in the 65 and lets hear it.
> Personally that demo did not impress.


well it was recorded very low volume with a vocal mic, can you do better lol. Sounds good on my PC what are you using a cell phone?

The ET 


20 hrs on the speaker treb at 5 pres 3 bass 3


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## J.LaGrassa

The 70/80 seems to break up easier kind of like a greenback, I'm starting to apreciate a speaker that has less break up. Probably stick the V-Type back in my amp for a slightly cleaner tone with V30 vibe.


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## BanditPanda

ken361 said:


> well it was recorded very low volume with a vocal mic, can you do better lol. Sounds good on my PC what are you using a cell phone?
> The ET 20 hrs on the speaker treb at 5 pres 3 bass 3




What do mean can I do better? I'm just saying for comparison purposes switch back to the ET65, record with the same setting and set up and post so we can hear the difference if any. I know circumstance aren't perfect but something is better than nothing right?


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## ken361

BanditPanda said:


> What do mean can I do better? I'm just saying for comparison purposes switch back to the ET65, record with the same setting and set up and post so we can hear the difference if any. I know circumstance aren't perfect but something is better than nothing right?


The second vid is with the ET65 i recorded a few months back. Like i said b4 this isnt the OEM speaker that came with the amp. The original I used for 50hrs and still found it pretty bright with the stock bias and power tubes i had a Gibson Les Paul at the time anyways. The second 70/80 i bought on line and find it way less harsh and bright. Is it the bias? amp broken in? not sure


----------



## BanditPanda

Oh ok didn't realize the second one. Will take a listen when I get home.
BP


----------



## whitecloud

ken361 said:


> The second vid is with the ET65 i recorded a few months back. Like i said b4 this isnt the OEM speaker that came with the amp. The original I used for 50hrs and still found it pretty bright with the stock bias and power tubes i had a Gibson Les Paul at the time anyways. The second 70/80 i bought on line and find it way less harsh and bright. Is it the bias? amp broken in? not sure


So you don't have the Gibson Les Paul anymore? If not that is a missing element of the equation. Thing is most already have a fair assessment of the stock OEM speaker I mean isn't this Marshall's best selling combo amp of all time? So out of all of those who own or have owned this amp how many left it stock, replaced the 70/80 immediately or waited then upgraded? If those who have given the seventy/80 a fair shake and are still underwhelmed and decide to try another speaker as an almost last ditch effort(besides tubes) and they are pleased with speaker B, so be it. I think quite a few aren't going to do much as far as circuit mods. So perhaps in your case a change in guitars, tubes and bias you are hearing things differently and dial in the amp with the stock speaker to suit your needs. Same goes for others that play this amp in their own particular guitars and what have you Personally I don't need to hear what the stock speaker sounds like, I know and have compared it to 3 other's either in the cab or in a 1x12. and side by side. I did mull over which WGS speaker and decided against a ET-65 and I would hazard a guess you may like the Retro30 more over it. Since I bought this amp I've added a nice Gibson Les Paul and a Gretsch to my collection and those and 4 others sounds great through this amp I just make necessary adjustments and enjoy


----------



## BanditPanda

ken361 said:


> The second vid is with the ET65 i recorded a few months back. Like i said b4 this isnt the OEM speaker that came with the amp. The original I used for 50hrs and still found it pretty bright with the stock bias and power tubes i had a Gibson Les Paul at the time anyways. The second 70/80 i bought on line and find it way less harsh and bright. Is it the bias? amp broken in? not sure




Ok had a one time run thru and in my uneducated opinion the ET65 gives a thicker/fuller response, with more bottom end and the 70/80 sounding slightly reedy & thin. It is kind of bright which was one of the original knocks against the DSCL4OC in tandem with the 70/80.
Just my worthless 2 cents worth and bottom line is whatever makes you ears happy.
I haven't yet listened to the You Tube comparisons of those 2 speakers which you provided but I will.


----------



## ken361

They do sound similar so far. I wanted a little less bass and more mids and top end but for just 8hrs its doing as fine or better then the ET with 55hrs. WGS claims they dont break in much anyways. Funny the 70/80 sounds smoother on the top on the recordings. 2 guys commented on Marshall super lead clip that the owner and another guy with both owning the ET's said they have some mids scoped and and the highs were a little unpleasant so he's going to go back to a Celestions


----------



## BanditPanda

ken361 said:


> `
> crappy guitar tone but doesnt blow it away like them for metal though




I was surprised to hear the Vintage 30 breaking up on the clean signal !
Vintage 30 does the best for my ears.


----------



## BanditPanda

ken361 said:


>



That was one crappy sounding demo but the Vintage 30 hands down over the 70/80. The brittleness of that speaker definitely shows up in that demo


----------



## BanditPanda

ken361 said:


>




In this demo they both sound like crap.


----------



## ken361

BanditPanda said:


> That was one crappy sounding demo but the Vintage 30 hands down over the 70/80. The brittleness of that speaker definitely shows up in that demo


his mic is too close to the cone, most demo's are crap anyways


----------



## ken361




----------



## J.LaGrassa

ken361 said:


> well it was recorded very low volume with a vocal mic, can you do better lol. Sounds good on my PC what are you using a cell phone?
> 
> The ET
> 
> 
> 20 hrs on the speaker treb at 5 pres 3 bass 3




I like the sound of this speaker!


----------



## ken361

J.LaGrassa said:


> I like the sound of this speaker!


that was stock


----------



## saxon68

Mine sounded great stock after about 3 months of playing on it.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

ken361 said:


> that was stock



I thought that video has your ET65 being used.


----------



## ken361

J.LaGrassa said:


> I thought that video has your ET65 being used.


my bad, I had warmer preamp tubes on that one. The stock pre's I had on it had more unpleasent highs so I deleted it


----------



## rlowe

BanditPanda said:


> In this demo they both sound like crap.


You tube demo's can be somewhat reliable, and sometimes not. Taking into account the amp, guitar, tubes, cables, recording equipment etc. used in the recording. I know it is a difficult task to (demo) speakers first hand before you buy, but the knowledgeable listener can still discern thru video demo's. I have a V30 in my Dsl40c, and a 70/80 stock in a closed back mx112 cab. I hear them everyday side by side and already know what they do. This is not necessarily directed at you, and I do agree the You tube comparison vid's are not the best.


----------



## BanditPanda

rlowe said:


> You tube demo's can be somewhat reliable, and sometimes not. Taking into account the amp, guitar, tubes, cables, recording equipment etc. used in the recording. I know it is a difficult task to (demo) speakers first hand before you buy, but the knowledgeable listener can still discern thru video demo's. I have a V30 in my Dsl40c, and a 70/80 stock in a closed back mx112 cab. I hear them everyday side by side and already know what they do. This is not necessarily directed at you, and I do agree the You tube comparison vid's are not the best.



Of course. It was more of a commentary on the sound quality of the video as opposed to the speakers.
No worries. You are on record as being pro V30 than 70/80.


----------



## ken361

mine sounds nothing like those in the videos,most make it sound bad its like the treble is maxed or something lol


----------



## Carlo

Hi guys, i followed your advice about a 2x12 cab with a closed back. I did want to build it myself, but it would not come cheap...So i went ahead and got a Palmer 2x12 unloaded with closed back for 135.- Euros. Putting both Seventy/80's in was straight foreward, only thing i had to do was putting some insulation tape around the inner rim of the speakers, because the Palmer is front loading and had to get some separation between speaker and cab. 
But man, you all were right, this cab sounds awesome, don't recognize the 70/80's! If you stand in front of the cab you feel the pressure waves coming out of that thing. Switching between cab or internal speakef is easy enough by simply pulling or inserting the plug of the internal speaker.
Thanks again guys, like everytime: great advice.
Cheers,
Carlo


----------



## Bownse

Typical recording conundrum. If you aren't controlling the recording side, how might the sample be colored?

If you're not controlling the playback, who knows what the listener hears? Computer speakers are often the worst (60s transistor AM radios being way worse).


----------



## whitecloud

ken361 said:


> I think I heard your stuff not too impressed lol


Are you referring to me as this reply was not quoted but right after one of my comments, if so this slipped by my notice until now. I don't recall sharing much here and not a speaker shootout. I'll share some snippets of stuff I am working on as my time has been more on the song writing side and not so much on tone clips


----------



## whitecloud

This snippet is the end part of a song, no vocals in there yet and some practice leads in a few spots through the duration of the clip. Mainly a Les Paul and the other guitar a Gretsch is a bit buried in the mix. Seems like i recall boosting the DSL40c with a Bogner La Grange and just the boost engaged. A little tc delay and no plugins used in Cubase as I am still in the arrangement stage and decided to just hit record for the lead guitar track for fun. It is close miked with a Heil PR-30 dynamic my fave over a 57. Forgot to add the speaker in the DSL40c is a WGS Retro 30 at the time of this recording


----------



## BanditPanda

whitecloud said:


> Are you referring to me as this reply was not quoted but right after one of my comments, if so this slipped by my notice until now. I don't recall sharing much here and not a speaker shootout. I'll share some snippets of stuff I am working on as my time has been more on the song writing side and not so much on tone clips



Jeez whitecloud where'd you get that from ? Doesn't sound like Ken would say something like that to anybody who was cool enuff to offer up some sound clips of themselves playing.
BP


----------



## BanditPanda

whitecloud said:


> This snippet is the end part of a song, no vocals in there yet and some practice leads in a few spots through the duration of the clip. Mainly a Les Paul and the other guitar a Gretsch is a bit buried in the mix. Seems like i recall boosting the DSL40c with a Bogner La Grange and just the boost engaged. A little tc delay and no plugins used in Cubase as I am still in the arrangement stage and decided to just hit record for the lead guitar track for fun. It is close miked with a Heil PR-30 dynamic my fave over a 57. Forgot to add the speaker in the DSL40c is a WGS Retro 30 at the time of this recording




Not bad WC. Keep at it.
BP


----------



## whitecloud

BanditPanda said:


> Jeez whitecloud where'd you get that from ? Doesn't sound like Ken would say something like that to anybody who was cool enuff to offer up some sound clips of themselves playing.
> BP


I was going back a few pages to check out some earlier posts and on page 370 of this thread my comments were post #7391 followed with Ken's #7392 and I went wow where did that come from. Anyway that is why I asked if the reference was directed toward me.


----------



## whitecloud

BanditPanda said:


> Not bad WC. Keep at it.
> BP


Thanks, sure is fun playing this amp and I am digging the LP as well


----------



## rlowe

whitecloud said:


> This snippet is the end part of a song, no vocals in there yet and some practice leads in a few spots through the duration of the clip. Mainly a Les Paul and the other guitar a Gretsch is a bit buried in the mix. Seems like i recall boosting the DSL40c with a Bogner La Grange and just the boost engaged. A little tc delay and no plugins used in Cubase as I am still in the arrangement stage and decided to just hit record for the lead guitar track for fun. It is close miked with a Heil PR-30 dynamic my fave over a 57. Forgot to add the speaker in the DSL40c is a WGS Retro 30 at the time of this recording



Like it, sounds like some older type jams I have played before 70/80's (not the speaker). I would hope members are not making under the table comments about someone else. They should clean their own bedroom before trying to clean others, and if someone did, they should man up to it!.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

whitecloud said:


> This snippet is the end part of a song, no vocals in there yet and some practice leads in a few spots through the duration of the clip. Mainly a Les Paul and the other guitar a Gretsch is a bit buried in the mix. Seems like i recall boosting the DSL40c with a Bogner La Grange and just the boost engaged. A little tc delay and no plugins used in Cubase as I am still in the arrangement stage and decided to just hit record for the lead guitar track for fun. It is close miked with a Heil PR-30 dynamic my fave over a 57. Forgot to add the speaker in the DSL40c is a WGS Retro 30 at the time of this recording





Sounds good!!


----------



## ken361

whitecloud said:


> Are you referring to me as this reply was not quoted but right after one of my comments, if so this slipped by my notice until now. I don't recall sharing much here and not a speaker shootout. I'll share some snippets of stuff I am working on as my time has been more on the song writing side and not so much on tone clips


wrong person sorry


----------



## solarburn

Just a thought here using an EQ pedal in front or in loop.

I put my Fish & Chips EQ pedal in front to do some tuning of L1 red channel. With it I can push or pull out specific frequencies that the amps own tone stack won't readily do or cover. You guys know this.

Been getting some cool results. What crossed my mind is can I emulate different speakers and their voicings(EQ curves)using the EQ pedal? Can I come close just to get and idea of how a certain model of speaker may sound with the amp?

It could be a cheap way for speaker testing without spending a bunch of money buying and rolling them.

Also the feel changes surprisingly with my 70/80 as I changed curves so actually playing through a real speaker and cab gives the feel needed to get an idea of how it may sound. I was having fun feeling as well as hearing the differences.

L1 can be toppy and it was easy to balance out just a bit with an EQ pedal or change the voicing even more. I was surprised how much tuning or pushing and pulling just 2 or 3 sliders(frequencies)made a difference good or bad. I focussed on the good of course.

So now i set amp EQ and leave it then tune the red channel with just the EQ pedal and use my OD pedals on the Green channel mostly. The Red side has plenty of gain to work with on both voicings and I don't play metal so its easy covering the blues, rock and hard rock I play.

On a practical note I can switch out(turn off)the EQ pedal and have my amp EQ settings work with both channels as is including using my OD pedals. No need to change amp settings as I switch channels for a majority of what sonic ground I need to cover when I need different tones.


----------



## whitecloud

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Just a thought here using an EQ pedal in front or in loop.
> 
> I put my Fish & Chips EQ pedal in front to do some tuning of L1 red channel. With it I can push or pull out specific frequencies that the amps own tone stack won't readily do or cover. You guys know this.
> 
> Been getting some cool results. What crossed my mind is can I emulate different speakers and their voicings(EQ curves)using the EQ pedal? Can I come close just to get and idea of how a certain model of speaker may sound with the amp?
> 
> It could be a cheap way for speaker testing without spending a bunch of money buying and rolling them.
> 
> Also the feel changes surprisingly with my 70/80 as I changed curves so actually playing through a real speaker and cab gives the feel needed to get an idea of how it may sound. I was having fun feeling as well as hearing the differences.
> 
> L1 can be toppy and it was easy to balance out just a bit with an EQ pedal or change the voicing even more. I was surprised how much tuning or pushing and pulling just 2 or 3 sliders(frequencies)made a difference good or bad. I focussed on the good of course.
> 
> So now i set amp EQ and leave it then tune the red channel with just the EQ pedal and use my OD pedals on the Green channel mostly. The Red side has plenty of gain to work with on both voicings and I don't play metal so its easy covering the blues, rock and hard rock I play.
> 
> On a practical note I can switch out(turn off)the EQ pedal and have my amp EQ settings work with both channels as is including using my OD pedals. No need to change amp settings as I switch channels for a majority of what sonic ground I need to cover when I need different tones.


I know what your saying. I have a Dano F&C pedal but I usually have in the the loop of my Orange Dark Terror and yes the amp is pretty Dark  Since I've moved the WGS Retro 30 over to the 1x12 ext. cab there is less frequencies to carve out or slightly boost and that speaker works pretty good although I imagine a Orange closed back cab with a Vintage 30 may be even better. I am toying with the idea of picking up an Orange Two Stroke boost eq pedal for 2 reasons, the parametric vs the 7 bands of the Fish and chips also the Dano pedal has a dodgy switch and I may have to re-house it. So yeah in a pinch one can dial in a speaker as you've described and that can be a less costly option though I don't mind trying out a few speakers until I "get it right" with any given amp.


----------



## solarburn

whitecloud said:


> I know what your saying. I have a Dano F&C pedal but I usually have in the the loop of my Orange Dark Terror and yes the amp is pretty Dark  Since I've moved the WGS Retro 30 over to the 1x12 ext. cab there is less frequencies to carve out or slightly boost and that speaker works pretty good although I imagine a Orange closed back cab with a Vintage 30 may be even better. I am toying with the idea of picking up an Orange Two Stroke boost eq pedal for 2 reasons, the parametric vs the 7 bands of the Fish and chips also the Dano pedal has a dodgy switch and I may have to re-house it. So yeah in a pinch one can dial in a speaker as you've described and that can be a less costly option though I don't mind trying out a few speakers until I "get it right" with any given amp.



I think a V30 is the way to go with the Orange and their cabs...even 112's are excellent. They are great with Marshall's too. My OR15 sounds excellent with my 5153 cab of GB's as well.

Let me know how you like the 2 stroke boost if you get one.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Here is something a little different from what I have been using for tubes I've been trying a different tube configuration
(V1) JJ 5751 (V2) JJ 12AY7 (V3,4) JJ ECC83S
Power tubes are GT EL34M Biased at 60%
Speaker is a Celestion V-Type

small clip of the Lead 1 mode with gain on 6, in the room it sounds so much more open rather than too much gain and compression. "Recorded with a Tascam DR-05 about 3' away"


----------



## whitecloud

J.LaGrassa said:


> Here is something a little different from what I have been using for tubes I've been trying a different tube configuration
> (V1) JJ 5751 (V2) JJ 12AY7 (V3,4) JJ ECC83S
> Power tubes are GT EL34M Biased at 60%
> Speaker is a Celestion V-Type
> 
> small clip of the Lead 1 mode with gain on 6, in the room it sounds so much more open rather than too much gain and compression. "Recorded with a Tascam DR-05 about 3' away"



Sounds great. Sometimes I use a room mic in tandem with a close mic for now that is a tube LDC in Fig 8 but eventually will buy a Ribbon mic. And though not playing live at this time do practice or record to tracks coming out of my Studio monitors. So if I was to judge how this amp sounds by itself, that might not transfer well in a mix so I do keep this in mind before much tinkering. I am past the tube warranty so will do some rolling this summer and its great when players share what they had been trying out. That and of course the bias settings


----------



## solarburn

J.LaGrassa said:


> Here is something a little different from what I have been using for tubes I've been trying a different tube configuration
> (V1) JJ 5751 (V2) JJ 12AY7 (V3,4) JJ ECC83S
> Power tubes are GT EL34M Biased at 60%
> Speaker is a Celestion V-Type
> 
> small clip of the Lead 1 mode with gain on 6, in the room it sounds so much more open rather than too much gain and compression. "Recorded with a Tascam DR-05 about 3' away"




I've used 5751 in V1 but not the 12AY7 in V2. That sounded really good.

I bet rolling off to a clean is quick too.

Love your playing. Gonna try that tube combo.

How's the green crunch sound?


----------



## J.LaGrassa

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I've used 5751 in V1 but not the 12AY7 in V2. That sounded really good.
> 
> I bet rolling off to a clean is quick too.
> 
> Love your playing. Gonna try that tube combo.
> 
> How's the green crunch sound?




The crunch is a little less crunchy but a bit more open as well, I use the crunch as my clean tone I set the gain on the low side so its more of that Edge of Break up tone


----------



## solarburn

J.LaGrassa said:


> The crunch is a little less crunchy but a bit more open as well, I use the crunch as my clean tone I set the gain on the low side so its more of that Edge of Break up tone



I thought I had a 12AY7 on hand but it looks like I'll have to order one. Look forward to trying this. I prefer a more open sound.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I've used 5751 in V1 but not the 12AY7 in V2. That sounded really good.
> 
> I bet rolling off to a clean is quick too.
> 
> Love your playing. Gonna try that tube combo.
> 
> How's the green crunch sound?




Here is a little snippet of the Crunch channel, gain around 4 for very light OD tone!


----------



## J.LaGrassa

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I thought I had a 12AY7 on hand but it looks like I'll have to order one. Look forward to trying this. I prefer a more open sound.



The JJ 12AY7 is pretty good and not expensive!


----------



## solarburn

J.LaGrassa said:


> The JJ 12AY7 is pretty good and not expensive!



Sounds like a win to me. Good and inexpensive.


----------



## solarburn

J.LaGrassa said:


> The JJ 12AY7 is pretty good and not expensive!



Got 1 coming. Will do a clip too when I get it in and dialed on L1. Gain is already at 6.lol


----------



## Bootlg13

Micky said:


> To remove the C19 cap makes all the difference in the world!
> The OD2 mode on the 2nd channel was pretty much unusable for me as it came from the factory. It may be fine for some as it is stock, but I can only imagine extreme metal being played on hi-gain pointy guitars by angry young punks. (no disrespect) Lots of gain is putting it mildly...
> 
> It is a pretty easy mod, I did it without removing the main PC board. Here is a photo:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I basically just touched a lo-powered soldering pencil (33 watts) to one leg and pried up the cap. It will be easy to return it to stock if needed. Here is another photo:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The OD2 mode on the Ultra Gain channel is now my go-to mode for a boost even though I don't play lead. It has a ballsy feel to it now rather than a fizzy buzz.


----------



## Bootlg13

Does it matter which leg on the c19 I remove?


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Bootlg13 said:


> Does it matter which leg on the c19 I remove?



no it wont matter


----------



## rlowe

Here is a link to the new Gibson guitar engineer, although I do not believe he had a hand in building my guitar, Thank God!


----------



## solarburn

J.LaGrassa said:


> Here is something a little different from what I have been using for tubes I've been trying a different tube configuration
> (V1) JJ 5751 (V2) JJ 12AY7 (V3,4) JJ ECC83S
> Power tubes are GT EL34M Biased at 60%
> Speaker is a Celestion V-Type
> 
> small clip of the Lead 1 mode with gain on 6, in the room it sounds so much more open rather than too much gain and compression. "Recorded with a Tascam DR-05 about 3' away"




Put the 12AY7 in V2 but kept the stock 12AX7 in V1 for now.

I'm liking it overall but I think the stock V1 runs a bit toppy and I lost some mid texture and feel trading the Sylvania for the AY7.

However I'm digging the tone anyways. More classic and goes cleaner just from light pick attack with all strings ringing out. If I'm not mistaken I hear it more up front or open as JLaGrassa stated.

I'll put my BP 5751 in soon. It will smooth out the toppy high end coming from that V1 preamp tube.

I know that V series speaker can tame some high end however I'm going to tune mine with the 70/80.

Having the 12AY7 won't do any favors covering mistakes. I'm a sloppy player but I actually enjoy working for picking dynamics, bending/holding strings and hearing feeling it translate through the amp. I'm having fun. My fingerz hurt.LOL


----------



## J.LaGrassa

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Put the 12AY7 in V2 but kept the stock 12AX7 in V1 for now.
> 
> I'm liking it overall but I think the stock V1 runs a bit toppy and I lost some mid texture and feel trading the Sylvania for the AY7.
> 
> However I'm digging the tone anyways. More classic and goes cleaner just from light pick attack with all strings ringing out. If I'm not mistaken I hear it more up front or open as JLaGrassa stated.
> 
> I'll put my BP 5751 in soon. It will smooth out the toppy high end coming from that V1 preamp tube.
> 
> I know that V series speaker can tame some high end however I'm going to tune mine with the 70/80.
> 
> Having the 12AY7 won't do any favors covering mistakes. I'm a sloppy player but I actually enjoy working for picking dynamics, bending/holding strings and hearing feeling it translate through the amp. I'm having fun. My fingerz hurt.LOL




I found it definitely worth trying I really liked it at home, playing with my band last night I found my self looking for more gain for some of the tunes we play. I had the gain as high as 7 and it still sounds good like that but Im probably going to stick the stock tubes back in with the 70/80... a total reboot lol I guess over all I want that more saturated compressed tone.


----------



## solarburn

J.LaGrassa said:


> I found it definitely worth trying I really liked it at home, playing with my band last night I found my self looking for more gain for some of the tunes we play. I had the gain as high as 7 and it still sounds good like that but Im probably going to stick the stock tubes back in with the 70/80... a total reboot lol I guess over all I want that more saturated compressed tone.



I'm finding it to be another favorable set up and kind of a revoicing at least compared to what I had. It wasn't just gain level that changed.

I'm sure I'll go back to my set up but for now I'm going to mess around with this...see what else I find. Still need to record it...


----------



## ken361

Only tried At7's in other amps and hated it


----------



## ken361

J.LaGrassa said:


> I found it definitely worth trying I really liked it at home, playing with my band last night I found my self looking for more gain for some of the tunes we play. I had the gain as high as 7 and it still sounds good like that but Im probably going to stick the stock tubes back in with the 70/80... a total reboot lol I guess over all I want that more saturated compressed tone.


Try boosting up front? works well with the right pedals


----------



## J.LaGrassa

ken361 said:


> Try boosting up front? works well with the right pedals


trying to avoid pedals in front of the amp, I like plugging straight in and use my guitars volume for controlling dirt!


----------



## whitecloud

J.LaGrassa said:


> trying to avoid pedals in front of the amp, I like plugging straight in and use my guitars volume for controlling dirt!


I tell you, using the Bogner LA Grange with just the Boost side engaged can really tip it over in a very good way. And that can be with either Green or Red channel on this amp. Must be a Boost pedal out there that can accomplish the same results for less coin, meaning not paying for the MIAB package. But to be honest a good argument for the LG in that regard.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

whitecloud said:


> I tell you, using the Bogner LA Grange with just the Boost side engaged can really tip it over in a very good way. And that can be with either Green or Red channel on this amp. Must be a Boost pedal out there that can accomplish the same results for less coin, meaning not paying for the MIAB package. But to be honest a good argument for the LG in that regard.



One pedal I have in mind if I were to try as a booster would be the Fulltone OCD set with gain off and volume boosted


----------



## solarburn

J.LaGrassa said:


> One pedal I have in mind if I were to try as a booster would be the Fulltone OCD set with gain off and volume boosted



I had V4 of the OCD. Hated it cause it was either too little or too much. No sweet spot. However I've been told it works with SC guitars like Strats. 

Some really like the OCD and it's various builds. I jus can't relate as it didn't with any of my amps where my other pedals do readily.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

I really love the Maxon VOP-9 (Vintage Overdrive Pro) with the Green channel, both Clean and Crunch. Best TS-based OD I've ever had and some folks say it even compares favorably to that certain mythical pedal...


----------



## J.LaGrassa

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I had V4 of the OCD. Hated it cause it was either too little or too much. No sweet spot. However I've been told it works with SC guitars like Strats.
> 
> Some really like the OCD and it's various builds. I jus can't relate as it didn't with any of my amps where my other pedals do readily.


Agree v1.4 wasn't my favorite either the latest rev v1.7 is much improvef, still don't see me using a drive pedal with this amp!


----------



## solarburn

J.LaGrassa said:


> Agree v1.4 wasn't my favorite either the latest rev v1.7 is much improvef, still don't see me using a drive pedal with this amp!



Based on your clips straight in is serving you well.

I like to pedal the green side. The red either L1 or L2 I've been going straight in. I go both ways.


----------



## rlowe

Angus Rhoads said:


> I really love the Maxon VOP-9 (Vintage Overdrive Pro) with the Green channel, both Clean and Crunch. Best TS-based OD I've ever had and some folks say it even compares favorably to that certain mythical pedal...


I think you are referring to the mythical Klon centaur pedal. The original designer, or team member developed the Archer pedal which is supposed to be the most accurate circuit representation of the original Klon. Have this pedal and it is more transparent, and tone range from deep to high treble.


----------



## solarburn

I'm finding I want more saturation too now. Also miss the mid texture I had before.

Still has been a fun experiment but I'm finding I prefer what I had.

I did boost it and it sounded great but switching the pedal off really showed how it was lacking and I'm playing with plenty of power tube mixed in to get a full tone. I don't do high gain either. Just made it sound and feel a bit limp.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

rlowe said:


> I think you are referring to the mythical Klon centaur pedal. The original designer, or team member developed the Archer pedal which is supposed to be the most accurate circuit representation of the original Klon. Have this pedal and it is more transparent, and tone range from deep to high treble.


Haven't tried the Archer yet but I've read great reviews. Do you have the silver or gold version?

The Maxon is not completely transparent and still has that tubescreamer mid-boost which I actually do like (also tightens up the bottom end). For clean boost I have an Xotic EP Booster but I'm not crazy about it with the DSL, tends to make things a little boomy in the bass.


----------



## rlowe

Angus Rhoads said:


> Haven't tried the Archer yet but I've read great reviews. Do you have the silver or gold version?
> 
> The Maxon is not completely transparent and still has that tubescreamer mid-boost which I actually do like (also tightens up the bottom end). For clean boost I have an Xotic EP Booster but I'm not crazy about it with the DSL, tends to make things a little boomy in the bass.


I have the Silver, as the gold is deeper more compressed I believe. I also have a Ts9 Ibanez on board this pedal adds good unique, old type texture to the tone.


----------



## MarshallDog

BanditPanda said:


> That was one crappy sounding demo but the Vintage 30 hands down over the 70/80. The brittleness of that speaker definitely shows up in that demo



Wow, my preference has been confirmed...the 70/80 sounds like a-s compared to the V 30 and I dont even care for V 30s...too much breakup not clear at all!!! Im a Greenback Creamback speaker guy!!!!


----------



## rlowe

J.LaGrassa said:


> One pedal I have in mind if I were to try as a booster would be the Fulltone OCD set with gain off and volume boosted


A few years ago I tried the Fulltone OCD (not sure which version) at guitar center (I don't deal too much with GC nowadays, S&H/taxes), using the DSL40c and a wall hung Gibson LP studio. It was a shoot out between the Ibanez Ts9, and the OCD. The Ts9 won hands down (preference), the OCD was just too dark at any setting.


----------



## ken361

Tried a mini TS when I had a strat it colored the sound, took it back. Mini TC boost, too much volume and not enough gain, MXR compressor gave the strat more gain for sure and didnt color much at all.

I had a T-Rex Crunchy frog was very good when I had a Les Paul it was a OD on one side and a clean boost on the other side. Should of kept it! I was able add a slight boost to the red channel and still sounded natural. Soul Food can be transparent but havent tried it with a Marshall yet. These were 37.00 when it came out EP sounded good at the store but loud prb too much bass.


----------



## rlowe

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I'm finding I want more saturation too now. Also miss the mid texture I had before.
> 
> Still has been a fun experiment but I'm finding I prefer what I had.
> 
> I did boost it and it sounded great but switching the pedal off really showed how it was lacking and I'm playing with plenty of power tube mixed in to get a full tone. I don't do high gain either. Just made it sound and feel a bit limp.


If more Saturation is what your after a certain compressor (dealers pick) can beef up the tone very well.


----------



## rlowe

Angus Rhoads said:


> Haven't tried the Archer yet but I've read great reviews. Do you have the silver or gold version?
> 
> The Maxon is not completely transparent and still has that tubescreamer mid-boost which I actually do like (also tightens up the bottom end). For clean boost I have an Xotic EP Booster but I'm not crazy about it with the DSL, tends to make things a little boomy in the bass.


Your new, and Welcome to the forum!


----------



## Angus Rhoads

You know what else sounds surprisingly good through green Clean is the Marshall Jackhammer in OD mode, very JCM800.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

rlowe said:


> Your new, and Welcome to the forum!


Thanks! Been having a lot of fun catching up on all of these threads!


----------



## ken361

Loved this EF86 tube pedal! I bought it for a HW AC15 Vox but it squealed with that circuit. I did have a marshall class 5 at the time it gave it more balls and gain and low end without any coloration like a TS pedal. Increased the dynamics some and clarity but made it sound natural not fake lol! Fryette said they are supposed to make them again will see.


----------



## rlowe

Angus Rhoads said:


> You know what else sounds surprisingly good through green Clean is the Marshall Jackhammer in OD mode, very JCM800.


I did like the sound of those Marshall pedals when reviewed, and they do look snazzy! Anyway's I almost have too many drives too choose from.


----------



## solarburn

MarshallDog said:


> Wow, my preference has been confirmed...the 70/80 sounds like a-s compared to the V 30 and I dont even care foe V 30s...too mich breakup not clear at all!!! Im a Greenback Creamback speaker guy!!!!



LMAO!

Don't sugar coat it my brother.


----------



## solarburn

rlowe said:


> If more Saturation is what your after a certain compressor (dealers pick) can beef up the tone very well.



I de-beefed it with the 12AY7 in V2.

Otherwise my original tube line up is good.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

rlowe said:


> I did like the sound of those Marshall pedals when reviewed, and they do look snazzy! Anyway's I almost have too many drives too choose from.


You can never have too many pedals LOL!
Jackhammers pop up used on GC's website fairly often for pretty cheap, and they're built like a tank.


----------



## rlowe

Angus Rhoads said:


> You can never have too many pedals LOL!
> Jackhammers pop up used on GC's website fairly often for pretty cheap, and they're built like a tank.


Yea, I might get one of those sometime down the road (decent sound, killer looks). Lotta pedals including OD's, or distortion to choose from in the Wide world of (sports) I mean pedals. I'm not necessarily promoting hard core metal, but if you do and as a harder alternative the MXR full bore metal can fill in nicely for certain parts. The pedal is as the name imply's: Full Bore


----------



## nikola

I have been using a ECC823 in v2 and I'm liking it. 

Makes the red channel quite usable.


----------



## solarburn

Sounds a bit brassy. 12AY7 in V2...L1 gain on 6


----------



## solarburn

Some turdy noodeling. 12AY7 in V2...L1 gain on 6


----------



## solarburn

nikola said:


> I have been using a ECC823 in v2 and I'm liking it.
> 
> Makes the red channel quite usable.



Nikola I had to look that tube up. Never heard of it.

I may have to try it too.LOL


----------



## Angus Rhoads

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Nikola I had to look that tube up. Never heard of it.
> 
> I may have to try it too.LOL


Have you tried an ECC832 (12DW7)? Tamed too much gain for me, but if you want to mellow out the Red channel you might like it.


----------



## solarburn

Angus Rhoads said:


> Have you tried an ECC832 (12DW7)? Tamed too much gain for me, but if you want to mellow out the Red channel you might like it.



I'm just experimenting. I'm not trying to tame the red side. I've had the amp 3 years and got it pretty dialed in for my needs but its always fun trying others set ups for me as far as tubes go.

I'm open to trying lower gain tubes. These are off the norm that I usually use.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I'm just experimenting. I'm not trying to tame the red side. I've had the amp 3 years and got it pretty dialed in for my needs but its always fun trying others set ups for me as far as tubes go.
> 
> I'm open to trying lower gain tubes. These are off the norm that I usually use.


Ssme here. I like to tinker just for kicks but I always seem to come back to my core sound. It's funny man, I have all these amps with multiple channels & modes but I always end up finding one favorite setting on each of them and then hardly use the other channels.


----------



## rlowe

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I'm just experimenting. I'm not trying to tame the red side. I've had the amp 3 years and got it pretty dialed in for my needs but its always fun trying others set ups for me as far as tubes go.
> 
> I'm open to trying lower gain tubes. These are off the norm that I usually use.


I tried a set of Dougs tubes preamp that he recommends and sells on his site a few years ago. I noticed that the tone was richer, and harmonically more complex. You can also get these in high gain etc. Link: http://www.dougstubes.com/guitar-amp-tube-kits/preamp-tone-kits/preamp-tonekit-12ax7-4.html I also tried Euro tubes JJ's a while back ECC83S (12ax7) and these ran a close second. I still have 2 of my original tin plate preamp tubes that came with the dsl40c now in my dsl5c. Tried the Marshall warranty replacements? good luck!


----------



## solarburn

Doug's is where I get a lot of my tubes.

I can see that kit doing the job though. I'm familiar with them each of them. Have used at one time or another.

Thanks for letting me know about it. I dig finding outabout this stuff. Sometimes I've been there and other times learn new stuff to try.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

rlowe said:


> A few years ago I tried the Fulltone OCD (not sure which version) at guitar center (I don't deal too much with GC nowadays, S&H/taxes), using the DSL40c and a wall hung Gibson LP studio. It was a shoot out between the Ibanez Ts9, and the OCD. The Ts9 won hands down (preference), the OCD was just too dark at any setting.



I've tried tube screamers over the years I just dont like them!


----------



## J.LaGrassa

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Some turdy noodeling. 12AY7 in V2...L1 gain on 6





It sounds good to my ears, I put my amp back to stock set up last night and maybe re-tweak it again over the weekend... or maybe just leave it the hell alone and


----------



## solarburn

J.LaGrassa said:


> It sounds good to my ears, I put my amp back to stock set up last night and maybe re-tweak it again over the weekend... or maybe just leave it the hell alone and



Tweak it

Naah!LOL


----------



## J.LaGrassa

ok so I tweaked it again and its back to my favorite combination that I've probably enjoyed the most, 4 JJ ECC83S a pair of JJ E34L biased at 38mA into a Celstion V-Type. 

Here is a little sample of Lead 1 with gain on 6


----------



## BanditPanda

J.LaGrassa said:


> ok so I tweaked it again and its back to my favorite combination that I've probably enjoyed the most, 4 JJ ECC83S a pair of JJ E34L biased at 38mA into a Celstion V-Type.
> 
> Here is a little sample of Lead 1 with gain on 6




That sounded excellent. I may have missed it earlier but what guitar with which pups and what pedals, if any ?


----------



## solarburn

Last clip using a 12AY7 in V2. L2 then L1.


----------



## Jefferson Agostino

Hi guys, can you send me some picture of the resistor that I must remove to put the choke?


----------



## J.LaGrassa

BanditPanda said:


> That sounded excellent. I may have missed it earlier but what guitar with which pups and what pedals, if any ?



Gibson SG Faded with stock 490 pickups, no pedals plugged straight in!


----------



## BanditPanda

Wow ! 490's ? Just taking them out of my LP and replacing with Antiquities.
You got your rig sounding great.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

BanditPanda said:


> Wow ! 490's ? Just taking them out of my LP and replacing with Antiquities.
> You got your rig sounding great.



I thought about replacing them with Dimarzio 36th Anniversary pups but the 490s are not bad at all, this guitar is completely stock. Normally I like Audio tapered pots but I kind of got use to the linear pots Gibson like to use.


----------



## Bownse

J.LaGrassa said:


> ok so I tweaked it again and its back to my favorite combination that I've probably enjoyed the most, 4 JJ ECC83S a pair of JJ E34L biased at 38mA into a Celstion V-Type.
> 
> Here is a little sample of Lead 1 with gain on 6




Much more ballsy than some of the others.



> Normally I like Audio tapered pots but I kind of got use to the linear pots Gibson like to use.



When I had the Dr. Vintage pups installed, I had the pots re-wired to 50s style. I've thought about changing them back and stop myself every time. I like the results.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Added some new pedals, these are the cheap pedals TC Electronic just put out and I got to say these sound and work great in the DSL fx loop. I got the Prophet delay and Rush boost for $49 ea and the Afterglow chorus was a whopping $59, there built solid with true bypass and top mounted jacks I also like that the knobs are nice and big... these are well worth the money!!


----------



## solarburn

J.LaGrassa said:


> Added some new pedals, these are the cheap pedals TC Electronic just put out and I got to say these sound and work great in the DSL fx loop. I got the Prophet delay and Rush boost for $49 ea and the Afterglow chorus was a whopping $59, there built solid with true bypass and top mounted jacks I also like that the knobs are nice and big... these are well worth the money!!



Cool deal man. Enjoy!

Hey I put my 12AX7 back in V2 and felt the extra juice right off. Played for quite awhile.

Funny thing is I decided I wanted more of what that 12AY7 was giving me instead. Just a while longer. Its more vintage and I dig that. It doesn't get as naughty though but I still want to mess around with it.

Thanks LaGrassa for turning me on to it. My fingers are peeling I'm bending strings and skaking my vibrato so much.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Cool deal man. Enjoy!
> 
> Hey I put my 12AX7 back in V2 and felt the extra juice right off. Played for quite awhile.
> 
> Funny thing is I decided I wanted more of what that 12AY7 was giving me instead. Just a while longer. Its more vintage and I dig that. It doesn't get as naughty though but I still want to mess around with it.
> 
> Thanks LaGrassa for turning me on to it. My fingers are peeling I'm bending strings and soaking my vibrato so much.



yeah its a cool tone I like that my self but like your self having the full gain back is what this amp is about, you can always just back the gain down to around 3 or 4 and get about the same result but will be a little brighter due to the bright cap.


----------



## ken361

J.LaGrassa said:


> yeah its a cool tone I like that my self but like your self having the full gain back is what this amp is about, you can always just back the gain down to around 3 or 4 and get about the same result but will be a little brighter due to the bright cap.


Mr non pedals likes it now just teasing I been eyeing those too. Hows the boost?


----------



## ken361

Wanted to try chorus with my EVH


----------



## solarburn

J.LaGrassa said:


> yeah its a cool tone I like that my self but like your self having the full gain back is what this amp is about, you can always just back the gain down to around 3 or 4 and get about the same result but will be a little brighter due to the bright cap.



Yeah its easier to have enuff gain and then roll off.

I actually A/B'd that 12AX7 rolled back in various degrees vs 12AY7 and the texture is different. That's why I want to mess with it some more. The voicing in the mids is a bit different as well. So its not just a matter of gain for me.

I'm jus playing at home right now though so I don't need to cover much ground sonically.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

ken361 said:


> Mr non pedals likes it now just teasing I been eyeing those too. Hows the boost?




ha ha... when i say no pedals I dont use any OD pedals and the ones I have are in the fx loop so I'm still plugged straight into the amp. 

The boost is used just as a Clean volume boost for leads, it doesnt add or take away from your original tone.


----------



## ken361

Try the boost up front yet? Could be good


----------



## BanditPanda

Agree with you guys that the 12AY7 is a bit of a light weight when compared to the AX7's.
And SB's description of a bit brassy was spot on.
I've got a mix in the V's of mine being :
*V1 - *Mullard CV4004 / 12AX7
V2 & V3 - Svetlana 12AX7
V4 - JJ-ECC83 MG (Mid Gain

but I gotta admit the 4 JJ ECC83S in all V's has got me thinking ! As does the V type. Currently run the WGS ET65. Of course I'm not playing that hard rock type of stuff that you guys do so well.
BP


----------



## solarburn

I'm eyeing that Prophet Delay...


----------



## BanditPanda

So I did a bit of research on the JJ ECC83S and found these few paragraphs and although aimed at audiophiles there are tid bits there that are of interest.
http://6streetbridge.blogspot.ca/2011/09/review-of-jj-ecc83s-vacuum-tube.html


----------



## Bownse

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I'm eyeing that Prophet Delay...



If you can bite the bullet on price, the multi-layered-delay of the Strymon DIG is most tasty.


----------



## solarburn

I've used quite a few delays. I like LaGrsssa's klips. 

He can play.


----------



## BanditPanda

I'm not raining on anybody's parade 'cause I have gone the inexpensive pedal route with TC ( the Mojomojo for example) and previous to that the Made In China Joyo line in the way of Analog Chorus, American Sound, Noise Gate and Scorpion Compressor.
Hey for the combined price of all of those I could get one big name pedal. Looking at it like that it is a no brainer. However with time of use and the honeymoon long over they eventually came off my board and my albeit "big name" pedals such as Catalinbread, Barber, LovePedal, Wampler came back onboard. Now I'm certainly not knocking TC's higher end stuff at all and definitely not recommending off the charts expensive boutique pedals either.
I am merely saying that from my perspective the lower priced pedals will not deliver the same quality of tone and performance and that sooner or later it will come to your attention.
BP


----------



## BanditPanda

Hey Lagrassa your clips are pre pedal ?


----------



## solarburn

Bandit u fucking Poosie!

Throw down and we will stop calling you a Weiner.


----------



## solarburn

Jus keeding


----------



## ken361

I really like my Caline Time Space Echo,very natural sounding,warm. Leave on all time for a slight echo effect. Better then the Wampler I had. Rocket Alien was great also


----------



## solarburn

.


----------



## BanditPanda

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Bandit u fucking Poosie!
> 
> Throw down and we will stop calling you a Weiner.



LMAO. You're day is coming Duke !!!


----------



## solarburn

.


----------



## solarburn

BanditPanda said:


> LMAO. You're day is coming Duke !!!



I'm glad you take as is. A friend.


----------



## solarburn

You know I'm kidding around.


----------



## BanditPanda

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Bandit u fucking Poosie!
> 
> Throw down and we will stop calling you a Weiner.



That's Big Weiner to you Ketchup !!


----------



## solarburn

Fudging around.


----------



## BanditPanda

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Fudging around.


NP SB!! I catch your drift.


----------



## solarburn

.


----------



## solarburn

Jeebus. My fingers are all over the place.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

BanditPanda said:


> Hey Lagrassa your clips are pre pedal ?


Nope the delay on that last clip is the Prophet delay


----------



## J.LaGrassa

solarburnDSL50 said:


> LaGrsssa throw down. U play excellent!
> 
> But I rip.


----------



## Bownse

No doubt that the proof is in the results. 

I'm so far from the skills of many on this forum that I can only relay my choices based on discussions with someone who was equally skilled, got my attention, and then took the time to explain the reasoning behind their choices (and their results) so I could see if those lined up with my goals.


----------



## whitecloud

Since I don't currently own any chorus/flange pedals I'll mention a few delays I have owned or still use.
1.On the cheap for just under 60 bucks @Amazon the Rifftone Mantra delay. True Analog BBD can compete with pedals priced twice as much. 600 ms and low clock noise. The only reason I no longer have it is I gifted it to a friend after buying #2.
2.Boss DM-2w Waza choose either Standard(up to 300ms like the original) or up to 800ms in Custom mode. Expression pedal input and a extra "dry out". Real nice sounding delay pedal
3.tc Alter Egox4, this one is probably the best bargain and a almost no-brainer if you get them when PGS has them in stock for $150.00. The smaller pedal is 100 bucks but you miss out on the better analog copies and looper. Sure the size may deter some but for me it just makes it much easier to use. I would say half of the "models" are usable and several are really good. 3 presets, 4 Toneprint slots. USB, midi, Tap tempo with sub divisions, expression pedal input. Shoot even their Boss DM2 copy sounds very close so go that route when Tempo is required. I really dig the Space Echo, EchoPlex, EchoRec, and CopyKat models. The Looper is basic but my first experience with one. It is easy to use and for my present needs which is practice. Good enough for that.


----------



## MarshallDog

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I de-beefed it with the 12AY7 in V2.
> 
> Otherwise my original tube line up is good.



Hmmm, it worked good for you? Does channel 1 still sound good when switching between the two of them? Did it kill the volume? May have to give this a try?


----------



## solarburn

MarshallDog said:


> Hmmm, it worked good for you? Does channel 1 still sound good when switching between the two of them? Did it kill the volume? May have to give this a try?



Its a different animal with the 12AY7. I don't mind lower gain playing.

There is less volume but still gets plenty loud. I think you jus got to try and see. Pretty inexpensive experiment. I've got another one coming to try in V2. ECC823


----------



## J.LaGrassa

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Its a different animal with the 12AY7. I don't mind lower gain playing.
> 
> There is less volume but still gets plenty loud. I think you jus got to try and see. Pretty inexpensive experiment. I've got another one coming to try in V2. ECC823



Maybe I will try that tonight, I have a couple of old 12DW7 tubes which is the same as a ECC832. That tube is a 12AX7 & 12AU7 in one tube, V2A will have the same gain factor of 100 but V2B will have a gain of about 17. Probably sound a bit more stronger than having a 12AY7 in V2 but will be curious of your thoughts!


----------



## ken361

this azz hole is looking for trades for a DSL he said its relic, I go my ass you dropped it lol


----------



## BanditPanda

Ken...wtf?.... I go my ass ????
BP


----------



## ken361

BanditPanda said:


> Ken...wtf?.... I go my ass ????
> BP


its not a relic ! you never heard that expression my ass before?


----------



## Angus Rhoads

LOL - Bandit, I think that sentence makes more sense if you add quotation marks: I go "my ass", you dropped it...


----------



## Angus Rhoads

ken361 said:


> its not a relic ! you never heard that expression my ass before?


I say it all the time. My wife doesn't like it, but that's another story...


----------



## BanditPanda

ken361 said:


> its not a relic ! you never heard that expression my ass before?



aHAHAHAH... You go ( as in..I said |)... my ass, you dropped it !!!! roflmao
I was trying to decipher.... you go my ass.....
My bad ! lol


----------



## ken361




----------



## ken361

Though I would attempt Zeppelins Thank You, little sloppy though


----------



## solarburn

ken361 said:


> View attachment 41420
> this azz hole is looking for trades for a DSL he said its relic, I go my ass you dropped it lol



LMAO!


----------



## solarburn

ken361 said:


> Though I would attempt Zeppelins Thank You, little sloppy though




Love that tune! Sounded great.


----------



## jeffb

So I made a quick video with some new tube-age and a comparison of Green crunch vs Red 1 after the c19 mod. Some riff lifts from my Avatar.

Unfortunately you can't see much  I've got a ground issue in my home and the overhead light makes for more buzz , especially when the volume is getting up. Details of the speakers and tubes are in the vid description or lmk here what you want to know (if anything)

Excuse the amateur recording and playing


----------



## ken361

dig the rush


----------



## solarburn

jeffb said:


> So I made a quick video with some new tube-age and a comparison of Green crunch vs Red 1 after the c19 mod. Some riff lifts from my Avatar.
> 
> Unfortunately you can't see much  I've got a ground issue in my home and the overhead light makes for more buzz , especially when the volume is getting up. Details of the speakers and tubes are in the vid description or lmk here what you want to know (if anything)
> 
> Excuse the amateur recording and playing





Loved the playing man. Wasn't too sure throughout which was green crunch or L1. Thought you started with green crunch and then L1. Did you trade back and forth like this the whole way?

Sounded great!


----------



## jeffb

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Loved the playing man. Wasn't too sure throughout which was green crunch or L1. Thought you started with green crunch and then L1. Did you trade back and forth like this the whole way?
> 
> Sounded great!



Yeah sorry, wasn't clear. I tried to yell out during the vid, but may be hard to hear if you don't have speakers up/cans on.

Starts off Green crunch for "bastille day", then switch to R1 for "bastille day" again. The roll off to clean at 1:55 is still R1, then 2:12 is back to green channel (still rolled off)

Then the chorus and echo kicks in- Green for "La Villa" and then do it over again in R1.

The lead wank (starting with the open string trill) after R1 La Villa is still R1, then I pause and switch to green and play kinda sorta the same thing. Just to show the difference in a lead tone.

Thanks to everyone for giving a listen!


----------



## solarburn

jeffb said:


> Yeah sorry, wasn't clear. I tried to yell out during the vid, but may be hard to hear if you don't have speakers up/cans on.
> 
> Starts off Green crunch for "bastille day", then switch to R1 for "bastille day" again. The roll off to clean at 1:55 is still R1, then 2:12 is back to green channel (still rolled off)
> 
> Then the chorus and echo kicks in- Green for "La Villa" and then do it over again in R1.
> 
> The lead wank (starting with the open string trill) after R1 La Villa is still R1, then I pause and switch to green and play kinda sorta the same thing. Just to show the difference in a lead tone.
> 
> Thanks to everyone for giving a listen!



Thanks man. Yeah I didn't hear you yell. Not using cans however I heard the tone and playing fine. Excellent.


----------



## ken361

was that the EVH cab?


----------



## jeffb

ken361 said:


> was that the EVH cab?



It is. But I have a G12M25 reissue (chinese) greenback, and a EVHeritage G12M20 (uk) in it. Not the 70th Annies. The G12ms are getting pushed pretty well in the clip.



solarburnDSL50 said:


> Thanks man. Yeah I didn't hear you yell. Not using cans however I heard the tone and playing fine. Excellent.



Thanks, I appreciate the kind words!


----------



## ken361

jeffb said:


> It is. But I have a G12M25 reissue (chinese) greenback, and a EVHeritage G12M20 (uk) in it. Not the 70th Annies. The G12ms are getting pushed pretty well in the clip.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, I appreciate the kind words!


cool i can tell your getting a bit more break up with the crunch channel


----------



## solarburn

Ahh GB's. I too was noticing the break up on the green crunch. This clears that wonder up.

I have a 5153 412 with the G12M's and it sounds good with whatever amp I use. I have hammered them with 100 watts and more. Have yet to pop one. If I do I'll prolly move on to the higher wattage G12H75 Cream back although Heritage 65's would be cool too.


----------



## jeffb

I've had a dozen different speaker combos in that cab. Mostly Celestions but some WGS/Mojotones too.

The g12ms are as much a part of my sound as the amp, or guitars. I have used them mixed with H30, as I really dig the H30 lead/bass cones, but the g12Ms get drowned out by the H30s. I have used both creambacks M/H too, and while I like them, they just do not give up the goods on a 40w amp when used in pairs/quads like the lower watt versions do. In the combo cab, I have a v30 still, but I would put a 12-65 heritage or a Creamback 65 back in if I did not have the 2x12.

The 803s in V1 is a bit lower gain, so I have the gain cranked on green crunch.


----------



## MarshallDog

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Its a different animal with the 12AY7. I don't mind lower gain playing.
> 
> There is less volume but still gets plenty loud. I think you jus got to try and see. Pretty inexpensive experiment. I've got another one coming to try in V2. ECC823



I thought you said you already have one in V2, where you gonna stick the new one???


----------



## solarburn

MarshallDog said:


> I thought you said you already have one in V2, where you gonna stick the new one???



I do have the AY7 in V2 but I'm going to switch it with the 823 and see what I get.

What's easy about rolling V2 only is I can put it back where I want it readily whether its an AX7, AY7 or 823. Easy rolling.

I also only keep 1 screw in holding the back down so I get easy access. I'm not moving the amp around other than to bias or retube.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

jeffb said:


> I've had a dozen different speaker combos in that cab. Mostly Celestions but some WGS/Mojotones too.
> 
> The g12ms are as much a part of my sound as the amp, or guitars. I have used them mixed with H30, as I really dig the H30 lead/bass cones, but the g12Ms get drowned out by the H30s. I have used both creambacks M/H too, and while I like them, they just do not give up the goods on a 40w amp when used in pairs/quads like the lower watt versions do. In the combo cab, I have a v30 still, but I would put a 12-65 heritage or a Creamback 65 back in if I did not have the 2x12.
> 
> The 803s in V1 is a bit lower gain, so I have the gain cranked on green crunch.


Have you tried Lynchbacks? I have one that I occasionally swap into my 40C and to me it sounds like it's halfway between a Greenback and a Creamback, smoother than Green but not as polite as Cream, if that makes sense. I really like it with the Classic Gain channel (I prefer a V30 with Ultra Gain, tho).


----------



## Bownse

jeffb said:


> Unfortunately you can't see much  I've got a ground issue in my home and the overhead light makes for more buzz , especially when the volume is getting up.



I resolved all that by shielding the guitar. Bridge ground checked out okay but lining all cavities with copper tape was amazinginly effective.


----------



## jeffb

Angus Rhoads said:


> Have you tried Lynchbacks? I have one that I occasionally swap into my 40C and to me it sounds like it's halfway between a Greenback and a Creamback, smoother than Green but not as polite as Cream, if that makes sense. I really like it with the Classic Gain channel (I prefer a V30 with Ultra Gain, tho).



I have not. I've thought about them at times, butI am/have been a g12m guy for 35 years or so. I am pretty happy with what I have and I have heard the Lynchbacks lean a little towards the v30, which is not my thing most of the time. May try some scumback clones at some point...


----------



## jeffb

Bownse said:


> I resolved all that by shielding the guitar. Bridge ground checked out okay but lining all cavities with copper tape was amazinginly effective.



Yup, thats my next thing to do to combat the house wiring. I use 50s wiring in my guitars so that is even noisier. I just re-wired my Les Paul again recently, so I'm in no rush to rip it all apart again


----------



## Angus Rhoads

jeffb said:


> I have not. I've thought about them at times, butI am/have been a g12m guy for 35 years or so. I am pretty happy with what I have and I have heard the Lynchbacks lean a little towards the v30, which is not my thing most of the time. May try some scumback clones at some point...


Maybe very little, but I don't hear any V30 in them at all!

Side note: has anyone tried the new Redback yet?


----------



## jeffb

Angus Rhoads said:


> Maybe very little, but I don't hear any V30 in them at all!
> 
> Side note: has anyone tried the new Redback yet?



Good to know on the Lynchbacks. Would be a great candidate to put back in the combo cab with the 50w power handling.

No redback experience here.


----------



## Bownse

Swapped to 50s wiring on my Lester, too.


----------



## G the wildman

I have tried a few different amps but find it hard to beat my DSL40. (Tones accepted). Generally this amp gets good reviews. So why is it considered 'entry level'?

What is the next step?


----------



## Len

G the wildman said:


> I have tried a few different amps but find it hard to beat my DSL40. (Tones accepted). Generally this amp gets good reviews. So why is it considered 'entry level'?
> 
> What is the next step?


Probably a full size 100W JCM or DSL head/cab.


----------



## jeffb

Bownse said:


> Swapped to 50s wiring on my Lester, too.



I'm a minimal effects guy and old fart who just rolls off the volumes for cleans like I did when I was a kid. 50s wiring is where it's at for that!


----------



## jeffb

G the wildman said:


> I have tried a few different amps but find it hard to beat my DSL40. (Tones accepted). Generally this amp gets good reviews. So why is it considered 'entry level'?
> 
> What is the next step?



Im not so sure entry level is the best term, though it is thrown about. Really it's the best overall affordable amp they have made in decades. The past several affordable lineups...Haze, MA, el84 dsl 20/40 were not as well received for a variety of reasons..tone, reliability, sometimes both.

They took a solid amp- UK DSLs and made it more affordable, instead of trying to design a new amp to meet a price point. Makes sense to me.

That said, by no means do I think my dsl40 can hold a candle to the best older Marshalls I have owned from the 70s and 80s. And the uk DSLs have better iron and sound a bit more "professional"

Next step up? For me it would have to be a reissue NMV or the 2203. I'm not into the versatility/complexity of the JVM and I never got along with Joobies much.


----------



## solarburn

I demoed the 823 in V2 and it was just OK for me. I like the AY7 in V2 much better. Rounder and more open or forward sounding. I put it back in. One thing I really like about the AY7 on the red side is it sings when I bend to pitch nicely.


----------



## BanditPanda

G the wildman said:


> I have tried a few different amps but find it hard to beat my DSL40. (Tones accepted). Generally this amp gets good reviews. So why is it considered 'entry level'?
> 
> What is the next step?



I'm certain that term refers or describes the price.
The DSL40C can sit on a pro stage anytime; naturally dependant on the genre of music to be played.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

BanditPanda said:


> I'm certain that term refers or describes the price.
> The DSL40C can sit on a pro stage anytime; naturally dependant on the genre of music to be played.


Tone-wise I don't think there's anything entry level about them (side note: I saw Jeff Beck Live in Tokyo on AXS TV and he was using a sweet sounding DSL100H). After all, they're based on what was Marshall's top-line model range until a little over 10 years ago. 

That said, the physical aspects of the amps are definitely more budget-minded - HDF construction vs plywood, the tolex is a noticeably lower grade, etc. and the speakers they use in the combos & cabs are budget models. Doesn't bother me much, though, because with the rigjt speakers the tone is there and in the end that's what I care about most. Now, if we're talking guitars then my position is very different... LOL


----------



## Bownse

Angus Rhoads said:


> Tone-wise I don't think there's anything entry level about them (side note: I saw Jeff Beck Live in Tokyo on AXS TV and he was using a sweet sounding DSL100H). After all, they're based on what was Marshall's top-line model range until a little over 10 years ago.
> 
> That said, the physical aspects of the amps are definitely more budget-minded - HDF construction vs plywood, the tolex is a noticeably lower grade, etc. and the speakers they use in the combos & cabs are budget models. Doesn't bother me much, though, because with the rigjt speakers the tone is there and in the end that's what I care about most. Now, if we're talking guitars then my position is very different... LOL



And plywood cabinets (including split head/speaker designs) are redily available after market.


----------



## G the wildman

Ok guys. So it is a good amp. I suppose that is why I am finding it hard to beat. But let me ask
another question. Can it compete with mesa 5.25?


----------



## J.LaGrassa

G the wildman said:


> Ok guys. So it is a good amp. I suppose that is why I am finding it hard to beat. But let me ask
> another question. Can it compete with mesa 5.25?




Can it compete with a Mesa 5:25, IMO it will kick it's ass I thought that amps drive channel was poor but the clean tone is nice... I'm just not a Mesa fan.


----------



## Snow and Steel

Bownse said:


> And plywood cabinets (including split head/speaker designs) are redily available after market.



Who makes a good replacement cabinet for the DSL-40c? I could see that between years of use, or between the screws being in and out enough times, replacing the cab might be a good idea when it wears out.


----------



## Snow and Steel

G the wildman said:


> Ok guys. So it is a good amp. I suppose that is why I am finding it hard to beat. But let me ask
> another question. Can it compete with mesa 5.25?



Mesa amps are based on Fenders with a ton of modifications. They will be sort of opposite ends of the spectrum.

Mesa prides themselves on smooth, "liquid gain", lots of bass and thump.

Marshalls are known for the classic Marshall 'kerrang'.


----------



## BanditPanda

How many amps you gonna run us thru with that question?
Never having played or heard the Mesa to which you refer I can't really give you specifics however lol...
The DSL 40C sells for 700 the Mesa for 1500
The DSL 40C is tech friendly whereas the Mesa amps make an amp tech cringe when they see them coming thru the door.
The DSL 40C is purty whereas the Mesa is purty ugly.
The DSL 40C gives you 40 the Mesa gives you 25.
The DSL 40C sounds like a Marshall. The Mesa does not.
The DSL40C is a Marshall. The Mesa is not.


----------



## ken361

had a mini rec it was decent but no marshall lol


----------



## Bownse

Snow and Steel said:


> Who makes a good replacement cabinet for the DSL-40c? I could see that between years of use, or between the screws being in and out enough times, replacing the cab might be a good idea when it wears out.



Project
http://www.fjr-tips.org/misc/amp/DSL40C_Mod/A_Project.html

Head
http://www.ebay.com/itm/rawcabs-unf...477392?hash=item44039e3a50:g:NRsAAOSwzaJYBQPA

Cab
Open and Closed back options
http://www.ebay.com/sch/sorrycharly/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=


----------



## Len

Snow and Steel said:


> Who makes a good replacement cabinet for the DSL-40c? I could see that between years of use, or between the screws being in and out enough times, replacing the cab might be a good idea when it wears out.


Anyone can build you one for $200-$300. Stagecraft, mojo, etc.


----------



## Allstev

Hello Marshall people. I wasn't looking to join the club, but I saw a mint DSL40c listed for $400 Canadian and I decided to get it, I've only been playing for a few years, and I don't feel worthy to be playing this awesome amp, I'm in awe of it, best $400 I'll ever spend.I've really enjoyed reading through this thread, I noticed a lot of people didn't like the speaker and swapped it, that leads me to a question I've been looking at a speaker called an Eminence Reignmaker, it has a built in attenuater. Has anyone had experience with it? Does it work well? Sound good? Is it safe for my amp? I have to keep the volume down when I play and I'd like to get the better tones that come with volume and I'm hoping this speaker would be a solution.


----------



## solarburn

Allstev said:


> Hello Marshall people. I wasn't looking to join the club, but I saw a mint DSL40c listed for $400 Canadian and I decided to get it, I've only been playing for a few years, and I don't feel worthy to be playing this awesome amp, I'm in awe of it, best $400 I'll ever spend.I've really enjoyed reading through this thread, I noticed a lot of people didn't like the speaker and swapped it, that leads me to a question I've been looking at a speaker called an Eminence Reignmaker, it has a built in attenuater. Has anyone had experience with it? Does it work well? Sound good? Is it safe for my amp? I have to keep the volume down when I play and I'd like to get the better tones that come with volume and I'm hoping this speaker would be a solution.



Welcome to the forum and congrats on the amp. 

Haven't demoed the Eminence speaker yet so can't give any real world experience about it.


----------



## Bownse

Allstev said:


> I saw a mint DSL40c listed for $400 Canadian and I decided to get it, I've only been playing for a few years, and I don't feel worthy to be playing this awesome amp, I'm in awe of it, best $400 I'll ever spend.



I joined about a year ago after the exact same experience. Welcome aboard. There are tons of talented players as well as "amp" people that participate. I've learned a lot but still sit back and enjoy their shared recordings.


----------



## ken361

Crunchhhh


----------



## solarburn

ken361 said:


> Crunchhhh




Ken was that another speaker compared to the other clip? I'm old...memory fail.


----------



## ken361

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Ken was that another speaker compared to the other clip? I'm old...memory fail.


yeah its the WGS ET 65 its similar sounding, last one was stock


----------



## ken361

For the money its close to the big guys


----------



## BanditPanda

Allstev said:


> Hello Marshall people. I wasn't looking to join the club, but I saw a mint DSL40c listed for $400 Canadian and I decided to get it, I've only been playing for a few years, and I don't feel worthy to be playing this awesome amp, I'm in awe of it, best $400 I'll ever spend.I've really enjoyed reading through this thread, I noticed a lot of people didn't like the speaker and swapped it, that leads me to a question I've been looking at a speaker called an Eminence Reignmaker, it has a built in attenuater. Has anyone had experience with it? Does it work well? Sound good? Is it safe for my amp? I have to keep the volume down when I play and I'd like to get the better tones that come with volume and I'm hoping this speaker would be a solution.




Welcome to the club ! Yes a lot have done the speaker swap. Some have not and tell that after break in the 70/80 is at least satisfactory.
The ReignMaker is a very good speaker ( not that I have one !) according to all reviews and sound clips I have heard. The method of attenuation is superior to that of the power soak method .
Most owners will tell you that the DSL40C can deliver very good sounds at low volumes. I can attest to that because I am a basement player and do not push the volume at all high or even medium but none the less get fantastic tone out of that amp in 20 watt mode. Yes of course it will get better as you get louder and some say even better in 4O watt mode.
Take my word for it, use your dirt pedal, comp , eq whatever you have/want and you will be very very happy ( in fact you already are ! lol ) even without the Reignmaker or an attenuator.
But then again swaps and mods are fun as hell !!
BP


----------



## G the wildman

Bit the bullet guys, traded my Dsl40c for a JVM head plus 2x12.
I will let you know howvit goes


----------



## ken361

I had one 205 H then moved on to Engl then a Vox Hw and so on 212 should be nice


----------



## BanditPanda

G the wildman said:


> Bit the bullet guys, traded my Dsl40c for a JVM head plus 2x12.
> I will let you know howvit goes



Which JVM ? Bit the bullet is right ! That's gonna give you a whole helluva lot more that the 40 could ever give ya.
Congrats on " moving on up "
BP


----------



## Jam81

Ok guys so I am new to this Tube amp world, I have a code 50 which was fine to me but after a year of use, I wanted something more so ended up getting a DLS40C with the creamback from sweetwater, I just got it yesterday late at night, man that thing is loud!!! even at 20w it is louder than the 50w code. I am not too familiar with tube amp and there are 383 pages here to go through, any help or settings in the eq panel would be helpful, I have a 2016 Les Paul standard and I like tones similar to Slash, Joe Bonamassa, Metallica, Billy Gibbons, Gary Moore to name a few. And finally, I have a tube screamer TS808 (reissue), does it get along with the ultra high gain signal?.... I only have that and a Slash Wah on my signal

Thanks!


----------



## whitecloud

Jam81 said:


> Ok guys so I am new to this Tube amp world, I have a code 50 which was fine to me but after a year of use, I wanted something more so ended up getting a DLS40C with the creamback from sweetwater, I just got it yesterday late at night, man that thing is loud!!! even at 20w it is louder than the 50w code. I am not too familiar with tube amp and there are 383 pages here to go through, any help or settings in the eq panel would be helpful, I have a 2016 Les Paul standard and I like tones similar to Slash, Joe Bonamassa, Metallica, Billy Gibbons, Gary Moore to name a few. And finally, I have a tube screamer TS808 (reissue), does it get along with the ultra high gain signal?.... I only have that and a Slash Wah on my signal
> 
> Thanks!


Welcome. It is recommended you "introduce yourself" on that thread if you haven't done so already. Many have their favorite dirt boxes with this amp mine is the Bogner La Grange and Bogner Blue. I use them mainly on the Green channel. I do play this amp somewhat loud so still enjoy both channels with or without pedals. Don't use a Tube screamer so can't help you there and you might just get by with a simple clean boost and or EQ pedal. I am sure others will jump in here. Good luck


----------



## BanditPanda

Clean Green Channel with Gain on 10.
Take it from there for all you mentioned with the exception of Metallica.Lots of others to help you with that sound.
I'm at work and can't visualize the eq I'm afraid but put all at Noon and adjust to taste.


----------



## Jam81

whitecloud said:


> Welcome. It is recommended you "introduce yourself" on that thread if you haven't done so already. Many have their favorite dirt boxes with this amp mine is the Bogner La Grange and Bogner Blue. I use them mainly on the Green channel. I do play this amp somewhat loud so still enjoy both channels with or without pedals. Don't use a Tube screamer so can't help you there and you might just get by with a simple clean boost and or EQ pedal. I am sure others will jump in here. Good luck



Thank you Whitecloud!!


----------



## Jam81

BanditPanda said:


> Clean Green Channel with Gain on 10.
> Take it from there for all you mentioned with the exception of Metallica.Lots of others to help you with that sound.
> I'm at work and can't visualize the eq I'm afraid but put all at Noon and adjust to taste.


Thanks!


----------



## ken361

Gain 5 to 7 on both channels EQ at 5 or so, bass less depends were im playing. 40 watt mode


----------



## solarburn

I boost the green side with OD pedals. Use the same EQ as the Red side so I don't need to change EQ when switching.

On the red side I go straight in no pedals in front unless I need to cover modern heavy which I don't much. Hard rock is as much gain as I need most of the time.

So L1 I set gain about 6 and volume around 4.(40w)

L2 I put gain at 3 on the knob volume about 4.(40w)

My EQ will be different as I have the 70/80 speaker and EC1000 with Dimarzio Super Distortions. Also I have a 12AY7 in V2 and a ECC803S in V1. Stock power tubes though.

Treble-3.5
Mids-7
Bass-6
Presence-3
Resonance-6


----------



## solarburn

BanditPanda said:


> And SB's description of a bit brassy was spot on.
> BP



Hey bud...I put a JJ ECC803S in V1 and it warmed the brass right up. Cool combo now. V1 803S and V2 AY7.

The 803S helped. Plus I already had one laying around. MarshallDog mentioned the 803 in V1 in a post so I thought I'd try it. Its a long plate which can be microphonic in combos but so far I don't hear anything coming through...yet.LOL

UPDATE: The 803S is showing some microphics. Bummer. Well I still have a bunch more tubes. Guess I'll be trying to warm up V1...the mission at hand.

Also over all amp volume is lower with the AY7. Bet the neighbors like that.


----------



## deadear

Snow and Steel

8080 Valvestate cabs are about the same size and built much stronger. Most those amps are now worn out and you could probably pick one up cheap ,but put them side by side and use a measuring tape.


----------



## jeffb

ken361 said:


> Crunchhhh




Nice clip/s.

I need to listen with my cans to be sure, but I *think* I prefer the 70/80....what are you thinking after going back and forth?


----------



## ken361

I hear more highs with the ET maybe its the mids? the 70/80 is more neutral and feel its a little darker at lower levels. I didnt go back in forth loud though.


----------



## Snow and Steel

Jam81 said:


> ...any help or settings in the eq panel would be helpful...



The Factory bias sucks. They bias them at 45 mv per side, which is WAY too hot, and it makes the amp lose most of its definition. Further they are often not biased very close at all. The tubes themselves are usually TAD tubes - quite good - but badly biased. Thankfully, this amp is incredibly easy to bias yourself. Pretty much any idiot who can change his oil can bias this amp with a simple multimeter [there are tons of videos on this and I can explain it to you if you really need help -but seriously; its easy]. So when you get one I would immediately re-bias it - I like about 35 mv per side.

DON'T think of this amp as a channel switcher - the EQ varies too wildly between the channels to make it an effective channel switcher. Think of it more like a Marshall 800 - a single channel amp that you run your pedals into to get various tones and levels of gain. Most guys tend to prefer the green channel [and it is probably the best channel]. If you want squeaky cleans or a crunchy tone as your base tone then use the green channel - button out for cleans and button in for crunch. From there - you can roll back your guitar volume for more clean, drive it with something like a TS9 [a TS9 into a Marshall is a classic tone] for overdrive or use a higher gain pedal for harder, more metal tones. A Klon/klone is also a great combo. A Timmy for a solo/lead boost works great too. If you want a more hard rock/metal tone and want to use less pedals, and don't need pristine cleans then use the red OD1.

The green channel has a LOT of bass - don't be surprised if you are using something that looks like an "extreme" EQ. I would start with something like; bass 2, treble 2, mids 10, presence and resonance OFF. reverb to taste, gain on 10 and volume to taste.

For the red channel you EQ much more traditional; bass 7, mids 10, treble 4, presence 4, resonance 5, Gain at 7, volume and reverb to taste.

These are just starting points, and everyone's ears are diferant. Further, your gear is likely a little different than everyone else's so some minor tweaking is to be expected.

Some people are going to say "why are the mids on '10' all the time?" Well, let me explain.

Everyone thinks it sounds really col having lots of bass and treble and scooped mids in their tone. It sounds pretty good at home in the bedroom at bedroom volumes. The problem shows up when you go play with a band, especially at loud volume. Suddenly they disappear in a mix and they can't figure out why. They turn up louder and louder and louder and when they can finally hear themselves it sounds like an icepick in the ear. What happened?

Here's the breakdown; Having lots of bass in a guitar signal is useless. Bass guitars suck ALL the low end frequencies in a mix - you will never win that fight. If you listen to a lot of those 'classic tones' [brown sound, boston, etc etc] theya re actually very mid heavy and bright tones. On the other end no one wants an ice pick in the ear, and high treble/presence fights cymbals and vocals as well, but it can cut through a mix. Ergo, the EQ spectrum that is not being used [and conversely where you can make your instrument stand out] is in the midrange. Mids are where the angry guitar lives - trust me on this. Further, your guitar heroes are not using as much gain as you think they are. What you hear out of your stereo is a combination of the guitar AND bass melded together, along with judicious post-production re-EQing, compression, and mastering. Finally, if you want to have your head explode, download the Duncan amp tone stack calculator. Its interesting to see that anything LESS than '10 is actually CUTTING mids away on a Marshall, and again as we have already explained - you don't want less mids, you want MORE.

Hope that helps.

One last thought;

I Don't bother with the "triode" mode - its not really half power, and it just sounds mushy and over compressed.

If you run the amp that way, I think you'll be amazed at how good it sounds. Best of luck~


----------



## solarburn

It's Friday and I'm stooped!


----------



## ken361

solarburnDSL50 said:


> It's Friday and I'm stooped!
> 
> https://www.youtubd.com/watch?v=-ZowIpfWfpg


Ripped? Sat for me Vodka oh thought you were drinking lol


----------



## solarburn

ken361 said:


> Ripped? Sat for me Vodka oh thought you were drinking lol



Well yes. Fireball and Marshall!


----------



## Bownse

Jam81 said:


> Ok guys so I am new to this Tube amp world, I have a code 50 which was fine to me but after a year of use, I wanted something more so ended up getting a DLS40C with the creamback from sweetwater, I just got it yesterday late at night, man that thing is loud!!! even at 20w it is louder than the 50w code. I am not too familiar with tube amp and there are 383 pages here to go through, any help or settings in the eq panel would be helpful, I have a 2016 Les Paul standard and I like tones similar to Slash, Joe Bonamassa, Metallica, Billy Gibbons, Gary Moore to name a few. And finally, I have a tube screamer TS808 (reissue), does it get along with the ultra high gain signal?.... I only have that and a Slash Wah on my signal
> 
> Thanks!



Start by saving some money and just play with it to get to know it.

A good place to start is with everything but volume at 12 o'clock, adjust volume to your level, and work it. See how it sounds and move one dial to 10 (11 on mine) and learn the difference. Move it back to 12 and move the next knob to 10 (11 on mine) and do the same thing.

Then do it all over again by moving each to 1 and seeing the affect.

You can't know what it will do until you do things with it.

Good point about the bias. If you're new to tube amps know that playing around inside one without a clue can kill you dead. Get a good bias on it from someone who doesn't think the world works only at 42. Most here have found that running the forumla (an amp tech will understand) ends up around 36-39.


----------



## ken361

Put the stock speaker back the ET65 added too much highs and not very full sounding. Just before getting it I had different preamp tubes with a mix of nos and that but today the stock beat it for sure with the stock preamp tubes and about 18hrs on it I also reduced the echo too and that added extra highs. I will run it for awhile and maybe a creamback soon!


----------



## G the wildman

BanditPanda said:


> Which JVM ? Bit the bullet is right ! That's gonna give you a whole helluva lot more that the 40 could ever give ya.
> Congrats on " moving on up "
> BP


Well I ordered the 50 watt head and proprietory 2x12 cab. The vendor messed up and the wrong kit arrived, facilitating another visit to the store. During this visit I played through the JMV 50 watt 2x12 combo. The sound quality is awsom. So that is what I have now ordered. It cost twice the price of my DSL, but I am a tone chaser and I think I have found it.


----------



## G the wildman

ken361 said:


> Put the stock speaker back the ET65 added too much highs and not very full sounding. Just before getting it I had different preamp tubes with a mix of nos and that but today the stock beat it for sure with the stock preamp tubes and about 18hrs on it I also reduced the echo too and that added extra highs. I will run it for awhile and maybe a creamback soon!


Hi Ken, I had the creamback in mine. Before I traded it I put the stock back in. It made me realise how good the Creamback is in a DSL. I have rolled a number of preamp tubes but Marshall stocks which are JJs seem best to my ear. But TAD finals are much smoother.

I am hoping not to have such issues with my JMV.

G


----------



## G the wildman

whitecloud said:


> Welcome. It is recommended you "introduce yourself" on that thread if you haven't done so already. Many have their favorite dirt boxes with this amp mine is the Bogner La Grange and Bogner Blue. I use them mainly on the Green channel. I do play this amp somewhat loud so still enjoy both channels with or without pedals. Don't use a Tube screamer so can't help you there and you might just get by with a simple clean boost and or EQ pedal. I am sure others will jump in here. Good luck


The amp is find with OD pedals. The Boss blues driver warms the sound a little. It also adds more OD if you want it. So your T S should be fine.


----------



## ken361

That dam screw thingy behind the baffle popped out on 2 holes and took me 20 minutes to get the screw to catch the hole without falling back out lol I was pissed, so when anyone wants to roll speakers put the screw in lightly and screw in and not push the that thing out. I still find the amp way less bright when I had it new, the red is actually pretty nice I don't know what the bias is if it jumped at all since at 30 ma. Its crazy how your ears hear different at times when you think you have it down good. Being a drummer for I never had tone issues or gas !! LOL


----------



## Bownse

Psychoacoustics is complex.

Turn up the volume until you hear distortion (audio amp) and note the place on the dial. Turning it back down below distortion requires a noticably lower volume than that needed to trigger distotion.

.......O
....../
..../
../
N

Remembeing that everything up to O had been Normal until it fell off the cliff.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Snow and Steel said:


> The Factory bias sucks. They bias them at 45 mv per side, which is WAY too hot, and it makes the amp lose most of its definition. Further they are often not biased very close at all. The tubes themselves are usually TAD tubes - quite good - but badly biased. Thankfully, this amp is incredibly easy to bias yourself. Pretty much any idiot who can change his oil can bias this amp with a simple multimeter [there are tons of videos on this and I can explain it to you if you really need help -but seriously; its easy]. So when you get one I would immediately re-bias it - I like about 35 mv per side.




My amp wasnt bias hot, I checked it when i bought the amp it was biased at 34mA out of the box.


----------



## jeffb

solarburnDSL50 said:


> It's Friday and I'm stooped!




Video no workie for me..


----------



## rlowe

J.LaGrassa said:


> My amp wasnt bias hot, I checked it when i bought the amp it was biased at 34mA out of the box.


Lucky few, out of box mine was biased aprx. 54.0 both sides. Have heard comments on thread some below 35.0, some well over. Although sounding good new and stock, this amp about killed my ears, ice pick and shrill sounding. I definitely made a few adjustments after that.


----------



## solarburn

jeffb said:


> Video no workie for me..



It was a wreck so I killed it..LOL


----------



## jeffb

I also got a whacked bias.

51/43 or something..I posted pics here in the thread of my meter.


----------



## jeffb

solarburnDSL50 said:


> It was a wreck so I killed it..LOL



Most of mine are like that!


----------



## ken361

rlowe said:


> Lucky few, out of box mine was biased aprx. 54.0 both sides. Have heard comments on thread some below 35.0, some well over. Although sounding good new and stock, this amp about killed my ears, ice pick and shrill sounding. I definitely made a few adjustments after that.


Thats why people complain about brightness/70/80 the dam bias is too high! LOL


----------



## Snow and Steel

My last one was bised 38 and 23.... wrap your brain around that for a minute


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Snow and Steel said:


> My last one was bised 38 and 23.... wrap your brain around that for a minute




it doesnt take much for those bias pots to change value, probably getting banged around during shipping.


----------



## whitecloud

ken361 said:


> Thats why people complain about brightness/70/80 the dam bias is too high! LOL


Over last weekend I decided to make a temporary 2x12 out my my 4x12 as I wanted to see how the 70/80 sounded next to the Eminence Private Jack before I spring for the Sweetwater Open box 70/80 deal. Didn't do x/y just both on the bottom. I don't know dude this is a closed back cab
and what I was hearing out of the OEM was pretty bright even with my Orange Dark Terror but at least with that amp still doable with eq Adjustments. I might go another route with the top 2 speakers. In case you are wondering probably around 30 hours at good volume on the 70/80


----------



## SonVolt

wow this is a big thread


----------



## ken361

mines pretty dark if I eq everything at 5, I usually set it trb, mids 6, bass 3 pres 6 res 3 i could even run the mids maxed treb at 5 and sound good. Old set up/ bias higher going past 5 on the mids was making it too bright. ET 65 is more brighter


----------



## ken361

whitecloud said:


> Over last weekend I decided to make a temporary 2x12 out my my 4x12 as I wanted to see how the 70/80 sounded next to the Eminence Private Jack before I spring for the Sweetwater Open box 70/80 deal. Didn't do x/y just both on the bottom. I don't know dude this is a closed back cab
> and what I was hearing out of the OEM was pretty bright even with my Orange Dark Terror but at least with that amp still doable with eq Adjustments. I might go another route with the top 2 speakers. In case you are wondering probably around 30 hours at good volume on the 70/80



Thought I would try a lead 2 recording with my cheap les paul special. Bedroom levels ok kinda cheap mic, its not perfect but hear the fatness at 20hrs on the speaker im still planning on creamback prb or V type. i just a hack player though kinda fizzy. Proper tweaking might worth looking into


----------



## whitecloud

ken361 said:


> Thought I would try a lead 2 recording with my cheap les paul special. Bedroom levels ok kinda cheap mic, its not perfect but hear the fatness at 20hrs on the speaker im still planning on creamback prb or V type. i just a hack player though kinda fizzy. Proper tweaking might worth looking into



I think a lot of this comes down to choice of guitar/pups example your Epi LP Special is an all Hog guitar no maple cap right? I agree it does sound fat but in a mix might have to carve some of that out. Fizzy yeah but not bright fizzy so up the volume bring down the gain but you know that. What I do sometimes is record a section with the looper on my tc AEx4 then mess with the controls and get down closer to the speaker(s). Makes things a little easier to dial in probably 1 out of 5 or 6 times I'm playing I have a mic involved so I not only deal with what I hear in the room but a close mic sound. Then there are times I use a room mic in addition. Thanks for the share.


----------



## ken361

Slab of mahogany ceramic, pups they rock good loud though. My EVH can be pretty warm too.L2 is a little ruff sounding untill well broken in


----------



## ken361

room mic and close mic is great, one day huh


----------



## solarburn

ken361 said:


> Thought I would try a lead 2 recording with my cheap les paul special. Bedroom levels ok kinda cheap mic, its not perfect but hear the fatness at 20hrs on the speaker im still planning on creamback prb or V type. i just a hack player though kinda fizzy. Proper tweaking might worth looking into



Where is the gain set?

Volume can clear a lot of buzz or fuzz but I know you are doing low volume.


----------



## whitecloud

ken361 said:


> room mic and close mic is great, one day huh


For close mic my favorite is a Heil PR30. I have a Stellar CM-6 Tube LDC and it has a variable pattern knob and I go Figure 8. Still thinking of picking up a ribbon along the lines of a Cascade Fathead


----------



## J.LaGrassa

I wonder how the new Celestion Redback would sound in the DSL40, unlike the other Creambacks the redback is suppose to have a warmer top end.


----------



## solarburn

J.LaGrassa said:


> I wonder how the new Celestion Redback would sound in the DSL40, unlike the other Creambacks the redback is suppose to have a warmer top end.



First I've heard of the Redback. Watts power handling?


----------



## Micky

The Redback is a Celestion model:

http://celestion.com/product/194/G12H_150_Redback/


----------



## solarburn

Micky said:


> The Redback is a Celestion model:
> 
> http://celestion.com/product/194/G12H_150_Redback/



Gat daem man! 150w beast. Love to hear one in action in a DSL40 but hell it's gonna make that bitch heavier to lift with the bigger magnet...not that I lift mine much. Lol

I'm definitely interested though. I've got other extension 112 cabs I could put one in...100db sensitivity. 10.4lb Monster!


----------



## J.LaGrassa

solarburnDSL50 said:


> First I've heard of the Redback. Watts power handling?




*From the Celestion site:*

The G12H-150 Redback has been created for players who are looking for extreme power handling but refuse to compromise on great tone. Rated at a gargantuan 150-watts, the Redback is constructed with a supersized 2-inch voice coil and features the heaviest G12 magnet. The result is a guitar speaker that sounds 100% Celestion in character, yet is primed to withstand a pummelling from a 100-watt head all by itself, and still come back for more.The Redback proves that you no longer need to choose between power and tone. With a tight, well-controlled low end, detailed midrange and more relaxed treble, Celestion’s engineering expertise has produced a truly high power guitar speaker that can still deliver balance, responsiveness and superb playability, with muscular ease.With lower power combos, expect tons of smooth, clean tone and don’t be afraid to plug in your favourite stomp box. Thinking of downsizing your cabinet? Simply hook up a single Redback to your 100-watt head and generate giant slabs of frightening, monstrous tone.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Gat daem man! 150w beast. Love to hear one in action in a DSL40 but hell it's gonna make that bitch heavier to lift with the bigger magnet...not that I lift mine much. Lol
> 
> I'm definitely interested though. I've got other extension 112 cabs I could put one in...100db sensitivity. 10.4lb Monster!



same weight as a V30 so it will add another 3 lbs


----------



## solarburn

J.LaGrassa said:


> same weight as a V30 so it will add another 3 lbs



Yeah but I'm already fartn lifting mine with the 70/80...


----------



## solarburn

You going to try one LaGrassa?


----------



## J.LaGrassa

solarburnDSL50 said:


> You going to try one LaGrassa?


not sure, tempting though


----------



## Bownse

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Gat daem man! 150w beast. Love to hear one in action in a DSL40 but hell it's gonna make that bitch heavier to lift with the bigger magnet...not that I lift mine much. Lol
> 
> I'm definitely interested though. I've got other extension 112 cabs I could put one in...100db sensitivity. 10.4lb Monster!



Yep. The 75watter makes the unit tip the scales at 60#.


----------



## ken361

All the "back" speakers sound different from one another, greens,creams and now the red. I wonder if the 30 watt G12m hold up in the dsl its kinda close. Might handle 40 max


----------



## J.LaGrassa

ken361 said:


> All the "back" speakers sound different from one another, greens,creams and now the red. I wonder if the 30 watt G12m hold up in the dsl its kinda close. Might handle 40 max



Yeah the CB65 and 75 are kind of bright especially the 75, I liked the CB65 more than the 75. I will probably still stay with the V-Type it's starting to break in now and becoming tighter and fuller sounding and also doesnt add any more weight.


----------



## Micky

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Gat daem man! 150w beast. Love to hear one in action in a DSL40 but hell it's gonna make that bitch heavier to lift with the bigger magnet...not that I lift mine much. Lol
> 
> I'm definitely interested though. I've got other extension 112 cabs I could put one in...100db sensitivity. 10.4lb Monster!


I have had loads of larger speakers with higher wattage ratings in my DSL40c. I tried a Texas Heat, a Swamp Thang, (these are now loaded into 4X12's) and have settled on a Man-O-War. Yes, these speakers make the combo heavier. Much heavier...

But now that I have 6550 finals, I need at minimum a 75W speaker and the MOW is rated at 120W. It is a classic brittish speaker sound, but still extremely loud at 101.6 db sensitivity. Very similar to the Redback. I think the Redback is gonna be a VERY popular speaker.

The Redback should perform well in a closed-back cab as well as a combo, with the added benefit that you could also run a 100W head thru it as well.


----------



## solarburn

Micky said:


> I have had loads of larger speakers with higher wattage ratings in my DSL40c. I tried a Texas Heat, a Swamp Thang, (these are now loaded into 4X12's) and have settled on a Man-O-War. Yes, these speakers make the combo heavier. Much heavier...
> 
> But now that I have 6550 finals, I need at minimum a 75W speaker and the MOW is rated at 120W. It is a classic brittish speaker sound, but still extremely loud at 101.6 db sensitivity. Very similar to the Redback. I think the Redback is gonna be a VERY popular speaker.
> 
> The Redback should perform well in a closed-back cab as well as a combo, with the added benefit that you could also run a 100W head thru it as well.



Thanks Micky. I'm really interested in this one. And I have 3 100w + amps I could use with these. In a 212 or 2 separate 112 cabs.

Man I love that you can run 6550's in your DSL40. They are my fav power tubes in my 900 clone.


----------



## Micky

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Thanks Micky. I'm really interested in this one. And I have 3 100w + amps I could use with these. In a 212 or 2 separate 112 cabs.
> 
> Man I love that you can run 6550's in your DSL40. They are my fav power tubes in my 900 clone.


Now that this thread has grown so large, I doubt I would ever be able to find the posts where I documented the process for conversion to 6550's. In all reality I feel they could be putting out more than 80W at full tilt, but I rarely have need or reason to do that ever again. They are the cleanest tubes I have ever used, and in the DSL they actually allow the internal reverb to be heard. I'd love to have a 900...


----------



## solarburn

They open 


Micky said:


> Now that this thread has grown so large, I doubt I would ever be able to find the posts where I documented the process for conversion to 6550's. In all reality I feel they could be putting out more than 80W at full tilt, but I rarely have need or reason to do that ever again. They are the cleanest tubes I have ever used, and in the DSL they actually allow the internal reverb to be heard. I'd love to have a 900...



They open the 900 up and it just sounds better clean and overdriven. Rounder with added thump. First time I fired her up with them I instantly grinned. Very satisfying.


----------



## BanditPanda

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Yeah but I'm already fartn lifting mine with the 70/80...



Ya'ol fart !!


----------



## solarburn

BanditPanda said:


> Ya'ol fart !!



Man don't I know it.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

I've come to the conclusion that no matter what tubes and speakers I use with the DSL40 it will sound great, some just better than others but still always good tone. Getting ready to Jam tonight with my band I am using 4x JJ ECC83S (not the stock Marshall JJs) a pair of GT EL34M and the V-Type speaker, sounds great at home... nice and thick and plenty of drive so I will see if itsounds like that in a bigger room!!


----------



## BanditPanda

J.LaGrassa said:


> I've come to the conclusion that no matter what tubes and speakers I use with the DSL40 it will sound great, some just better than others but still always good tone. Getting ready to Jam tonight with my band I am using 4x JJ ECC83S (not the stock Marshall JJs) a pair of GT EL34M and the V-Type speaker, sounds great at home... nice and thick and plenty of drive so I will see if itsounds like that in a bigger room!!



Very much interested in how the V Type works out. Keep us posted.


----------



## Bownse

ken361 said:


> All the "back" speakers sound different from one another, greens,creams and now the red. I wonder if the 30 watt G12m hold up in the dsl its kinda close. Might handle 40 max



Never under "quote" your speaker. 

Amps have transients that can spike well above their average output. Put in a speaker equal to the output and you're courting disaster (blown speaker). Under rated (load) speakers even more so. 

I tend to choose speakers that can handle double the RMS of the amp it will be paired to just to be safe and because many speakers work better in the middle of their load rating.

Sweetwater mods it with the 65 watter that is +62% of the DSL40C so should be fine without over-spending for the speaker upgrade.


----------



## BanditPanda

At what point is an amp out putting it's full wattage ? Volume maxed ? f you're playing with volume at noon what wattage is the speaker having to cope ?


----------



## ken361

Bownse said:


> Never under "quote" your speaker.
> 
> Amps have transients that can spike well above their average output. Put in a speaker equal to the output and you're courting disaster (blown speaker). Under rated (load) speakers even more so.
> 
> I tend to choose speakers that can handle double the RMS of the amp it will be paired to just to be safe and because many speakers work better in the middle of their load rating.
> 
> Sweetwater mods it with the 65 watter that is +62% of the DSL40C so should be fine without over-spending for the speaker upgrade.


I was going by the demo's people put when doing a few different in a row


----------



## ken361

BanditPanda said:


> At what point is an amp out putting it's full wattage ? Volume maxed ? f you're playing with volume at noon what wattage is the speaker having to cope ?


I know a guy was using a 25 watt greenback but only in the low watt mode at the time. I think they rate it at loud clean headroom full at 40 watts I believe


----------



## BanditPanda

So if you're running in 40W mode with volume at noon with a 25 watt GB you should be fine?


----------



## solarburn

BanditPanda said:


> So if you're running in 40W mode with volume at noon with a 25 watt GB you should be fine?



Nope. Sooner or later it will pop but more importantly it will sound like it's beyond its capability. Flat and dead. At least mine have when pushed in my 412 with my big amps.


----------



## BanditPanda

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Nope. Sooner or later it will pop but more importantly it will sound like it's beyond its capability. Flat and dead. At least mine have when pushed in my 412 with my big amps.


Good to know. Thanks
BP


----------



## solarburn

BanditPanda said:


> Good to know. Thanks
> BP



Yeah with volume up to noon at 40w will definitely be challenging that 25 watter. More like squashing it.


----------



## ken361

5 is dam loud on the red im more for it at 4


----------



## Micky

BanditPanda said:


> So if you're running in 40W mode with volume at noon with a 25 watt GB you should be fine?


Not hardly. There is always a possibility that a spike could exceed the power handling capacity of a 25W speaker, even at lower volumes. An overdriven signal into the amp for sure...


----------



## Snow and Steel

On most Marshalls they don't really get much louder after 5, just more distorted... so I wouldn't assume that the GB is safe. How about a creamback g12-65m?


----------



## assaf110

Snow and Steel said:


> so I wouldn't assume that the GB is safe. How about a creamback g12-65m?



Well, that's the speaker sweetwater are offering as an upgrade to the dsl40c, so I guess it's safe to say it will be fine.


----------



## ken361

Snow and Steel said:


> On most Marshalls they don't really get much louder after 5, just more distorted... so I wouldn't assume that the GB is safe. How about a creamback g12-65m?


Mine was like that no louder pass 5, maybe its the cooler bias now but its def louder pass 5 more like 7 its like a 3rd gear now lol but I dont play that loud on the red 1


----------



## Bownse

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Nope. Sooner or later it will pop but more importantly it will sound like it's beyond its capability. Flat and dead. At least mine have when pushed in my 412 with my big amps.



Driving an amp to clipping will cause it to sound irritating to a listener. Driving a speaker beyond its sweet zone will do like SB said. You can under-drive it and it won't sound it's best. You can over-drive it and blow out the cone. You can run an amp in the speaker's sweet spot then spike it with an overdrive pedal or (or bump the volume knob) and also hut the speaker.

IMO (and that's all it is) running an exact-match loaded speaker and amp is dancing on the edge and could cost you over time. Leaving some head room on the speaker for the worst case with the amp avoids that (but clipping the amp still grates on nerves).

...

Oops said the same thing as Micky with 4 times the words.


----------



## ken361

https://www.premierguitar.com/articles/22878-tone-tips-speakersthe-final-frontier


----------



## ken361

Wonder how the Lynchback would work in the dsl? 50 watts 130.00 price is right 8 ohm though


----------



## Angus Rhoads

ken361 said:


> Wonder how the Lynchback would work in the dsl? 50 watts 130.00 price is right 8 ohm though



I have a Lynchback that I've used in my DSL40C, it works very well with that amp. Ultimately I prefer it with a Vintage 30 because I like the crunchier bass of that speaker on the Red channel whereas the Lynchback has more of a "woody" bottom end. I'd say the Lynchback is better with the Green channel and is great for nailing more classic tones, has a really sweet, slightly rolled-off top end and warm but restrained midrange. It's a great choice if you find the DSL is too bright/forward.


----------



## ken361

I went back to the WGS ET65 when I playing the Epi Les Paul loud today the stock just wasn't jiving as well so I stuck the Et back its more open sounding with better mids. Then I was testing the loops with the delay in and out of the loop with it unplugged in and out was getting that power tube hum dam! was ok since but it seems these only last like 8 months. I used EH for 2 sets and now the Tungsols. Might have to go with JJ everyone seems to like them but will see I have a problem starting again.


----------



## solarburn

ken361 said:


> I went back to the WGS ET65 when I playing the Epi Les Paul loud today the stock just wasn't jiving as well so I stuck the Et back its more open sounding with better mids. Then I was testing the loops with the delay in and out of the loop with it unplugged in and out was getting that power tube hum dam! was ok since but it seems these only last like 8 months. I used EH for 2 sets and now the Tungsols. Might have to go with JJ everyone seems to like them but will see I have a problem starting again.



Turn the loop off with the button. Does it still hum?


----------



## solarburn

I left the JJ803 in V1 and 12AY7 in V2 and am enjoying the dynamics I'm getting from L1 & L2. The 803 is noisy...rattle. I can handle it for now as its minimal. Most would switch it out right away though.

Starting with L1 gain at 6 and under gets me a brighter open tone. Can get brassy if too low. More open sounding than when a stronger 12AX7 is in V2.

As I increase gain past 6 it becomes fatter and warmer with solo notes sitting back a bit. I imagine C19 is not effecting the tone as gain goes up. My volume is at 3.5. So there are 2 cool sweet spots I dig just by adjusting gain level while using the JJ 803S/12AY7 combo. Significant difference between tone/feel as gain increases or decreases on this voicing.

I keep L2 gain from 3.5 to 4 and under for another more classic gain even though most use this voicing for modern higher gain stuff. I do not. Again some different but cool sweet spots using the above V1 & V2 tubes.


----------



## ken361

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Turn the loop off with the button. Does it still hum?


yeah it did then I played for a hour loud no problems but will see. Think the vibrations cause them to go micro-phonic. When it hummed b4 I would tilt the amp back then it would go quiet.


----------



## solarburn

ken361 said:


> yeah it did then I played for a hour loud no problems but will see. Think the vibrations cause them to go micro-phonic. When it hummed b4 I would tilt the amp back then it would go quiet.



Interesting...


----------



## Bownse

ken361 said:


> Think the vibrations cause them to go micro-phonic. When it hummed b4 I would tilt the amp back then it would go quiet.



The bane of the tube combo amp.


----------



## solarburn

Yeah I had to kick the JJ 803S out. Bit too distracting noise wise. A V1 tube with long plates in a combo amp is asking for noise. Tone was good though.


----------



## ken361

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Yeah I had to kick the JJ 803S out. Bit too distracting noise wise. A V1 tube with long plates in a combo amp is asking for noise. Tone was good though.


I used them in the v2 spot in a few amps b4


----------



## Micky

Here is what is in mine:

The Official Marshall DSL40c Information Thread


----------



## solarburn

Micky said:


> Here is what is in mine:
> 
> The Official Marshall DSL40c Information Thread



I likey the preamp selection. Nice!

Now you have 6550's though instead of the TADs.


----------



## ken361

Mullards are smooth! Sill have the Jan WA


----------



## Micky

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I likey the preamp selection. Nice!
> 
> Now you have 6550's though instead of the TADs.


Yes, it seems this particular combination suits my needs & taste very well.
Kudos to MartyStrat for the preamp tube selection!


----------



## BanditPanda

Micky said:


> Not hardly. There is always a possibility that a spike could exceed the power handling capacity of a 25W speaker, even at lower volumes. An overdriven signal into the amp for sure...



Ok but lets say that the Marshall / Greenbacks is the original/real/ultimate Marshall sound and I do have the DSL40C. and want to have that Marshall / Greenback sound. At 40W with a single GB won't work due to the speakers power handling capabilities.
I presume that running the 40C on 20W mode + GB would work without worry and provide the desired sound?
I presume that if I run 2 GB's in 40 W mode that would be ok? I don't want that though.
I don't want to buy 2 GB's AND a cab. Just want to drop a GB or a highly recommended facsimile into the DSL40C.
What do you suggest?
BP


----------



## Micky

BanditPanda said:


> Ok but lets say that the Marshall / Greenbacks is the original/real/ultimate Marshall sound and I do have the DSL40C. and want to have that Marshall / Greenback sound. At 40W with a single GB won't work due to the speakers power handling capabilities.
> I presume that running the 40C on 20W mode + GB would work without worry and provide the desired sound?
> I presume that if I run 2 GB's in 40 W mode that would be ok? I don't want that though.
> I don't want to buy 2 GB's AND a cab. Just want to drop a GB or a highly recommended facsimile into the DSL40C.
> What do you suggest?
> BP


A GB even in 20W mode runs the risk of damage.
It is incredibly easy to find a GB facsimile such as a Vet30 or Private Jack (both available in 16-ohm) for less money than you would spend on a GB. A Vet30 is rated at 60W and a Private Jack is rated at 50W, where a GB is only rated at 25W.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

BanditPanda said:


> Ok but lets say that the Marshall / Greenbacks is the original/real/ultimate Marshall sound and I do have the DSL40C. and want to have that Marshall / Greenback sound. At 40W with a single GB won't work due to the speakers power handling capabilities.
> I presume that running the 40C on 20W mode + GB would work without worry and provide the desired sound?
> I presume that if I run 2 GB's in 40 W mode that would be ok? I don't want that though.
> I don't want to buy 2 GB's AND a cab. Just want to drop a GB or a highly recommended facsimile into the DSL40C.
> What do you suggest?
> BP


Try the Lynchback. It's a 50-watt speaker and IMO it's closer to a traditional GB sound than the Creamback models. It's a little smoother on top than a GB, but it's also more controlled on the bottom end, where GBs can be too loose with some gain. Has GB mids.


----------



## ken361

ET isn't cutting it? Creambacks there lots of love.Lynchback should be awesome too


----------



## whitecloud

Well I opened Her up, checked plate voltage and bias and low and behold voltage @450 and bias on both sides just a hair above 36 so I kept it @ that for several reason
1.The amp sounds great so if it ain't broke................
2.WGS Veteran 30 is fat yet still clear enough and am digging the tones
3.Many have it set close to this.
Other comments I've went back to full power and won't go back to Triode mode. With the current state of this amp there isn't a tremendous EQ shift going from Green to Red(Lead 1) sure it's there but not as drastic when I first got it late last year and with the 70/80. Most the axes I use with it have some snap so it is a good combo. Mickey is right I have used both the Private Jack and Veteran 30(currently) and Ken have you tried a WGS Retro 30? Might just be what your looking for. I had that one in the combo and now it is in a 1x12 and still available. Finally have found a good use for the 70/80 as previously mentioned paired up with a Private Jack in a modded closed back 2x12. They work together well with my Orange Dark Terror(don't call it Dark for nothing) and I should get off my butt and move the DSL over and try it with that cab.


----------



## ken361

Haven't tried it,going to check my bias later


----------



## BanditPanda

ken361 said:


> ET isn't cutting it? Creambacks there lots of love.Lynchback should be awesome too



As mentioned the ET65 is very good and I like it a lot however if I am looking to get as close as possible to that always sought after original Marshall / GB sound using the DSL40C I'm thinking there is another speaker, other than the 65, which could get me closer to that original Marshall sound experience. Granted I do not have a Plexi or a JTM45 or an 800 or an...., or an... ,or an... and no 4 x 12.
I was reading, not sure it was on this board, that the speaker makes up for 25% of the tone produced by an amp. We're trying to get as close as possible to that 25%.
BP


----------



## whitecloud

ken361 said:


> Haven't tried it,going to check my bias later


The reason I suggest it is because I think the Retro 30 still retains that upper mids and detail without being harsh or dark and I love the breakup. Although I haven't personally used a ET-65 from the clips and peoples description I get the impression it is a balanced speaker but not have the kind of breakup I am looking for. Perhaps a bit more character coming from the Retro and Veteran 30 for better or worse.


----------



## ken361

BanditPanda said:


> As mentioned the ET65 is very good and I like it a lot however if I am looking to get as close as possible to that always sought after original Marshall / GB sound using the DSL40C I'm thinking there is another speaker, other than the 65, which could get me closer to that original Marshall sound experience. Granted I do not have a Plexi or a JTM45 or an 800 or an...., or an... ,or an... and no 4 x 12.
> I was reading, not sure it was on this board, that the speaker makes up for 25% of the tone produced by an amp. We're trying to get as close as possible to that 25%.
> BP


I'm with you on the tone wise,I'm more classic British rock and the Brown sound!


----------



## ken361

If your using the red its going to a bit different because the voicing,its all good though.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

BanditPanda said:


> As mentioned the ET65 is very good and I like it a lot however if I am looking to get as close as possible to that always sought after original Marshall / GB sound using the DSL40C I'm thinking there is another speaker, other than the 65, which could get me closer to that original Marshall sound experience. Granted I do not have a Plexi or a JTM45 or an 800 or an...., or an... ,or an... and no 4 x 12.
> I was reading, not sure it was on this board, that the speaker makes up for 25% of the tone produced by an amp. We're trying to get as close as possible to that 25%.
> BP


Bandit, I am not looking to poo-poo any other speaker brands - in fact the sheer amount of high quality gear that is available now compared to when I started playing in the mid 80s is astounding. BUT, I've bought/sold/traded different bits of gear over the years looking for certain sounds or feels and eventually came to my current way of thinking: If you want an amp that sounds like a Marshall, get a Marshall. If want an amp that sounds like a Fender, get a Fender. If you want a guitar that sounds & feels like a Les Paul, get a Les Paul. And... yep, if you want a speaker that sounds like a Celestion, get a Celestion.


----------



## ken361

Celestions do have certain mid tones, well one of my power tube was under 7mv to the next one it was too cold ! going to rock it one.Best to check ever couple months because they drift up or down


----------



## solarburn

BanditPanda said:


> As mentioned the ET65 is very good and I like it a lot however if I am looking to get as close as possible to that always sought after original Marshall / GB sound using the DSL40C I'm thinking there is another speaker, other than the 65, which could get me closer to that original Marshall sound experience. Granted I do not have a Plexi or a JTM45 or an 800 or an...., or an... ,or an... and no 4 x 12.
> I was reading, not sure it was on this board, that the speaker makes up for 25% of the tone produced by an amp. We're trying to get as close as possible to that 25%.
> BP



I want to try the Heritage 65 for the same reasons you mentioned. I think it may be a great way to enhance vintage tones due to its mid voicing.


----------



## BanditPanda

Angus Rhoads said:


> Bandit, I am not looking to poo-poo any other speaker brands - in fact the sheer amount of high quality gear that is available now compared to when I started playing in the mid 80s is astounding. BUT, I've bought/sold/traded different bits of gear over the years looking for certain sounds or feels and eventually came to my current way of thinking: If you want an amp that sounds like a Marshall, get a Marshall. If want an amp that sounds like a Fender, get a Fender. If you want a guitar that sounds & feels like a Les Paul, get a Les Paul. And... yep, if you want a speaker that sounds like a Celestion, get a Celestion.



Thanks Angus. All checked off . Missing only the Celestion or clone thereof. That's why I' writing.
The GB @ 25W is a no go with the DSL40C. So we're on the hunt for a relatively inexpensive 16ohm / 12" speaker that will drop in to the DSL40C that can get us as close to that Marshall/ GB sound experience as possible.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

BanditPanda said:


> Thanks Angus. All checked off . Missing only the Celestion or clone thereof. That's why I' writing.
> The GB @ 25W is a no go with the DSL40C. So we're on the hunt for a relatively inexpensive 16ohm / 12" speaker that will drop in to the DSL40C that can get us as close to that Marshall/ GB sound experience as possible.


I hear ya bro, but there's just something that Celestions have, all of 'em really, that the other brands just don't seem to capture. I think it's the way they resolve the midrange frequencies that's just different from the clones (like Marshall amps themselves, actually). I think in the end you'll end up tyring alternative brand XYZ, maybe be happy with it for a while, but then at some point feeling like it's still not quite there and end up buying a Celestion anyway. I'm just trying to save you the trouble of having to unload that used speaker down the road! LOL

I really do believe that a lot of what we've all come to recognize as that "Marshall" sound has much to do with the Celestion ingredient as well. It's like trying to make a Root Beer float with Cola instead, you can get close but it just won't be exactly the same.


----------



## BanditPanda

Angus
We know we're not going to get exactly the same ! We're talking about a DSL40C.!
We're talking 'bout using a pedal to get our Plexi or Bluesbreaker tones.
Our best hope is to get a fairly close approximation. The right speaker choice will get, in tandem with the DSL40C, us closer to the approximation. Perhaps you're right. Perhaps it will take a Celestion speaker and as you have suggested it could very well be the Lynchback. Your clips of that speaker sounded excellent to my ears.
As SB has said he may be looking forward to getting his hands on the Heritage G12-65.
For those of us less inclined to spend the bigger bucks perhaps the WGS Vet 30 is the way to get the closest approximation of the Marshall/GB experience or as Micky mentioned the Eminence Private Jack.
Great discussion and love the research !!


----------



## BanditPanda

Not that this helps the current discussion 'cause featured here are only 25W or lower.
Demo from George Metropoulos of various Green Backs.


No love for the Scumbacks?
Here's the scoop on the Scumback M75 ( hey pre-Rola baby lol ) !!
This is very interesting !
M75








Warm, detailed midrange enhanced guitar speaker with smooth overdrive and distortion tones. Great sound right out of the box due to factory aging, design and break-in procedures. This is a superb tone and sound recreation of the G12M Pre Rola era "Greenback" that was used in Marshall stacks and combos, and many other British amps of the era such as Vox, Orange, Sound City, etc.

This speaker is for: Those players who like the 25w G12M Pre-Rola tone.

Specially treated 75hz cone. Pre Rola style doping just like the originals.
35 oz. magnet, 1.75" voice coil, 12" wide. 8 bolt pattern allows mounting to most amps.
Available in 25, 65 and 100 watt, 97 db. 8 ohm & 16 ohm only


----------



## Angus Rhoads

What can I say - if I want Coke I buy Coke, not Pepsi. If I want Oreos I buy Oreos, not Hydrox... LOL


----------



## whitecloud

BanditPanda said:


> Angus
> We know we're not going to get exactly the same ! We're talking about a DSL40C.!
> We're talking 'bout using a pedal to get our Plexi or Bluesbreaker tones.
> Our best hope is to get a fairly close approximation. The right speaker choice will get, in tandem with the DSL40C, us closer to the approximation. Perhaps you're right. Perhaps it will take a Celestion speaker and as you have suggested it could very well be the Lynchback. Your clips of that speaker sounded excellent to my ears.
> As SB has said he may be looking forward to getting his hands on the Heritage G12-65.
> For those of us less inclined to spend the bigger bucks perhaps the WGS Vet 30 is the way to get the closest approximation of the Marshall/GB experience or as Micky mentioned the Eminence Private Jack.
> Great discussion and love the research !!


I am going to agree with you here. Sometimes it seems like my Bogner La Grange is close to out Marshall the Marshall for some of those tones. And yeah dig the WGS Veteran 30 in my DSL40c. That said I may pick up an Orange cab with a Celestion Vintage 30 as I can give that a go with the Marshall and my other amps. Then you have the Friedman defectors dissing the DSL


----------



## ken361

BanditPanda said:


> Not that this helps the current discussion 'cause featured here are only 25W or lower.
> Demo from George Metropoulos of various Green Backs.
> 
> 
> No love for the Scumbacks?
> Here's the scoop on the Scumback M75 ( hey pre-Rola baby lol ) !!
> This is very interesting !
> M75
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Warm, detailed midrange enhanced guitar speaker with smooth overdrive and distortion tones. Great sound right out of the box due to factory aging, design and break-in procedures. This is a superb tone and sound recreation of the G12M Pre Rola era "Greenback" that was used in Marshall stacks and combos, and many other British amps of the era such as Vox, Orange, Sound City, etc.
> 
> This speaker is for: Those players who like the 25w G12M Pre-Rola tone.
> 
> Specially treated 75hz cone. Pre Rola style doping just like the originals.
> 35 oz. magnet, 1.75" voice coil, 12" wide. 8 bolt pattern allows mounting to most amps.
> Available in 25, 65 and 100 watt, 97 db. 8 ohm & 16 ohm only



Scums sound every bit as good and you get them broken in they were all good IMO


----------



## ken361

lynchbacks should be awesome on the red channel, might have to try one


----------



## Natedog_37

Ok need some help. Looks like I blow a power tube EL34. On full power and sounds like Sh8t look in back and only one tube is glowing etc. 

So I am looking for new tubes. I play in a cover band but we are mostly Classic/Heavy Rock. 

Was shopping at the tube store and seen this combo 

4 Tung-Sol EL34B
2 Preferred Series 7025 / 12AX7

Though on this setup? This is my first tube amp have had it for about 2 years now done nothing to it beside play though it. 

Any input is good input at this point.

Thanks


----------



## Micky

DSL40c only needs 2 finals, and 4 preamp tubes.


----------



## BMV

Hello everyone!

I've just registered.
Been playing guitar for 20+ years but a real newbie regarding internals and tubes... Thanks Micky for starting such a useful (if very long) thread.
My gear is the following:

Amp: 2013 Marshall *DSL100H* (stock)
Cab: Marshall 1936V (2x12 *V30*s).
Guitar: Gibson *LP* (stock PUs 490R/498T)

I play Classic Rock live with this set-up, which 90% of the time means *Led Zeppelin*. Gain-wise, I never go beyond Guns N' Roses. That's it.

I'm thinking of changing my tubes, which are still stock. Would probably need to rebias also. I stay on the green channel, don't want the C19 mod, the tone is good but not great, reverb is way too low, and sometimes I get a hum as the amp warms up more and more, which at volumes above 5 becomes too loud.

I tried contacting MartyStrat a while back but didn't get a reply. What would your suggestions be for nailing live Led Zeppelin tones?

Thanks a lot in advance, cheers!


----------



## Natedog_37

Correct sorry I have the numbers in the wrong spot LOL

2 Tung-Sol EL34B
4 Preferred Series 7025 / 12AX7

Any though on these tubes.


----------



## Micky

Those are great CP tubes.


----------



## ken361

Natedog_37 said:


> Correct sorry I have the numbers in the wrong spot LOL
> 
> 2 Tung-Sol EL34B
> 4 Preferred Series 7025 / 12AX7
> 
> Any though on these tubes.


I have the tungsols they been good, also Mullards fine too


----------



## ken361

BMV said:


> Hello everyone!
> 
> I've just registered.
> Been playing guitar for 20+ years but a real newbie regarding internals and tubes... Thanks Micky for starting such a useful (if very long) thread.
> My gear is the following:
> 
> Amp: 2013 Marshall *DSL100H* (stock)
> Cab: Marshall 1936V (2x12 *V30*s).
> Guitar: Gibson *LP* (stock PUs 490R/498T)
> 
> I play Classic Rock live with this set-up, which 90% of the time means *Led Zeppelin*. Gain-wise, I never go beyond Guns N' Roses. That's it.
> 
> I'm thinking of changing my tubes, which are still stock. Would probably need to rebias also. I stay on the green channel, don't want the C19 mod, the tone is good but not great, reverb is way too low, and sometimes I get a hum as the amp warms up more and more, which at volumes above 5 becomes too loud.
> 
> I tried contacting MartyStrat a while back but didn't get a reply. What would your suggestions be for nailing live Led Zeppelin tones?
> 
> Thanks a lot in advance, cheers!


Boosted green channel is good , I stay on the red for Zep and 80's stuff but boosting the green crunch gets ya really close to the red's gain. Check your bias! if there way off from one another that may cause the hum. If they were used for while I would replace them because I had that issue a few times


----------



## ken361

Marty Overbay is on facebook now, think he got kicked off here


----------



## Snow and Steel

Natedog_37 said:


> Ok need some help. Looks like I blow a power tube EL34. On full power and sounds like Sh8t look in back and only one tube is glowing etc.
> 
> So I am looking for new tubes.



I've got a set of the original Marshall tubes. I pulled them out of my amp n day 1 so they have no use on them at all. They are tube amp doctor tubes, EL34 [x2] and 12ax7 [x4], branded for Marshall. I'm assuming you know how to install and bias them yourself?

If you need tubes quick, I can send them to you - you're in Mich and I'm in Ohio so you should get them very quick. I'll sell them to you cheap, since you're a forum member, gigging, and I'm not using them.


----------



## Micky

One should always carry a spare set of tubes...


----------



## Angus Rhoads

BMV said:


> Hello everyone!
> 
> I've just registered.
> Been playing guitar for 20+ years but a real newbie regarding internals and tubes... Thanks Micky for starting such a useful (if very long) thread.
> My gear is the following:
> 
> Amp: 2013 Marshall *DSL100H* (stock)
> Cab: Marshall 1936V (2x12 *V30*s).
> Guitar: Gibson *LP* (stock PUs 490R/498T)
> 
> I play Classic Rock live with this set-up, which 90% of the time means *Led Zeppelin*. Gain-wise, I never go beyond Guns N' Roses. That's it.
> 
> I'm thinking of changing my tubes, which are still stock. Would probably need to rebias also. I stay on the green channel, don't want the C19 mod, the tone is good but not great, reverb is way too low, and sometimes I get a hum as the amp warms up more and more, which at volumes above 5 becomes too loud.
> 
> I tried contacting MartyStrat a while back but didn't get a reply. What would your suggestions be for nailing live Led Zeppelin tones?
> 
> Thanks a lot in advance, cheers!


Regarding the weak Reverb, mine was like that too when I first got it. I eventually swapped out all the preamp tubes and now the Reverb is very effective - before I would crank it almost all the way up and it was still pretty subtle, but now I can keep it around 2 or 3 and it adds a nice ambience to the sound, and by 4 or 5 it's almost too much for my taste.

I get my best Zep tones on Classic Gain - Crunch, TMB all at 10, gain around 7, Pres & Res off and use my guitar volume and pickup combinations to vary the tones from clean to dirty. My 98 LP Std has the same pickup combo you have - try the middle position with the bridge pickup volume around 7-8 and the neck at 2-3 for Whole Lotta Love type tones, switch to bridge for Good Times Bad Times, and switch to the neck for cleans. 
For a phasey tone like No Quarter, middle position, neck volume & tone full, bridge volume full but tone at 0.


----------



## ken361

ET90 and the Creamback here


----------



## MarshallDog

ken361 said:


> ET90 beats the Creamnback here




I once again love the Creamback! Seems thicker and fuller with less of those thinning high freqs!!


----------



## Allstev

I've got a weird problem with my amp if I play notes on the big E string between the eighth and eleventh frets there is static, I raised the bridge and that didn't help. Any suggestions? It just started doing it today.


----------



## ken361

prb the power tubes


----------



## solarburn

Got a JJ ECC83MG today and put it in V1. Its supposed to be between the more aggressive ECC83S and the ECC803S.

It sounds great and goes into singing harmonics nicely. It compliments the 12AY7 I have in V2. Anyways give it a try if you want to try a more polite JJ ECC83S.

http://www.eurotubes.com/store/pc/viewCategories.asp?idCategory=39


----------



## jeffb

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Got a JJ ECC83MG today and put it in V1. Its supposed to be between the more aggressive ECC83S and the ECC803S.
> 
> It sounds great and goes into singing harmonics nicely. It compliments the 12AY7 I have in V2. Anyways give it a try if you want to try a more polite JJ ECC83S.
> 
> http://www.eurotubes.com/store/pc/viewCategories.asp?idCategory=39



Yep I have a couple. It currently sits in my V1 too, along with 3 83s and the JJ EL34IIs. I waffle back and forth but I think the MG brings about some more midrange and is less toppy and bassy than the 803s and also a bit more "vintage" and less bassy sounding than the 83s. With the 83mg I like the fact I can turn the gain up more on Green Crunch and add some more treble and get better clarity and thickness without it sounding like a distortion pedal/overly gained out. It sounds punchier/thicker than other higher gain tubes with the gain control pulled back some to compensate.

I did not care for the 83MG in any position when running the JJ KT77s. Those KT77s really need to be paired with dark and/or compressed preamp tubes, IMO, and the 83/803 worked much better. 

Of course, my speakers/cab, low output bright pickups are also contributing to alot of different frequencies compared the 40c and an internal speaker and/or higher output pickups.


----------



## solarburn

jeffb said:


> Yep I have a couple. It currently sits in my V1 too, along with 3 83s and the JJ EL34IIs. I waffle back and forth but I think the MG brings about some more midrange and is less toppy and bassy than the 803s and also a bit more "vintage" and less bassy sounding than the 83s. With the 83mg I like the fact I can turn the gain up more on Green Crunch and add some more treble and get better clarity and thickness without it sounding like a distortion pedal/overly gained out. It sounds punchier/thicker than other higher gain tubes with the gain control pulled back some to compensate.
> 
> I did not care for the 83MG in any position when running the JJ KT77s. Those KT77s really need to be paired with dark and/or compressed preamp tubes, IMO, and the 83/803 worked much better.
> 
> Of course, my speakers/cab, low output bright pickups are also contributing to alot of different frequencies compared the 40c and an internal speaker and/or higher output pickups.



That's a great description of the 83MG. I'm finding the same "vintage" sound/feel with my set up. Especially since I have less compression due to the AY7 in V2.

The bit of brassy midrange I get with the AY7 in V2 gets warmed up but still can bite when I need it. It sweetened the mids. Since the 70/80 has some brightness it evens it out as well. I was really surprised how much I found it doing tone and feel wise in V1. Yes the punch is there like you said.

I've been wanting to try the JJ 34II's for awhile now. I play a lot at volume so the power section is active and filling out the sound and I tune from there. My low volume usually sounds good too afterwards. 

So what do you feel the JJ 34II's give you over the stock power tubes?


----------



## ken361

I need to try one of those tubes


----------



## solarburn

ken361 said:


> I need to try one of those tubes



They're inexpensive for the standard version which is what I bought.


----------



## jeffb

solarburnDSL50 said:


> So what do you feel the JJ 34II's give you over the stock power tubes?



My stocks were the TAD STRs. I guess I would say a little bit more of everything. More bass more midrange, and a clearer , but not bright top end. The KT77 sounds like a.cross between a 6l6 and El34, and I would say the 34II has a bit more of 6550 than 6L6. Bigger low mids. It still sounds like an El34, just a little beefier with more "roar". 

Compared to the Mullard RIs I ran for a year or so the 34II is not nearly as soft or compressed and much bigger/wider sounding.


----------



## BanditPanda

From the JJ site:
A.F. OUTPUT PENTODE
EL34 II has fuller low mids and low end but does not lose headroom in the high end. Stronger than regular EL34 but not as aggressive as the E34L.


----------



## BanditPanda

This demo definitely reveals the EL34ii to be much more lively sounding.


----------



## solarburn

jeffb said:


> My stocks were the TAD STRs. I guess I would say a little bit more of everything. More bass more midrange, and a clearer , but not bright top end. The KT77 sounds like a.cross between a 6l6 and El34, and I would say the 34II has a bit more of 6550 than 6L6. Bigger low mids. It still sounds like an El34, just a little beefier with more "roar".
> 
> Compared to the Mullard RIs I ran for a year or so the 34II is not nearly as soft or compressed and much bigger/wider sounding.



Perfect. I love me 6550's. Some don't but they are big and open and crunch up with a punch.

I didn't care for KT 77's in my DSL50 much. Haven't tried them since. I've used JJ 34L's and liked them but I preferred the stockers over them in the DSL40.

So next power tube change on this amp I'm getting the 34II'S. Thanks for the great imput. Much appreciated!


----------



## solarburn

Thanks BP for the additions!


----------



## ken361

https://www.facebook.com/marshallam...159547.194362866916/10155014408176917/?type=3


----------



## jeffb

I have not played the EL34Ls. It is my understanding they are more "metal" oriented and have higher headroom and bigger lows and less highs than the standard 34 and the 34II. I personally don't want the extra headroom, but I still would like to give them a try. The standard JJ 34s seem to have a love/hate quality. I have played amps with them, but not the DSL so I'm hesitant to give an opinion either way.

The 34IIs I would definitely recommend. The KT77s can be a little "hi-fi" which may or may not float your boat. I don't think I would buy the Mullard RI again. Too compressed and very "small". I do like their low headroom though. The Sino/TAD seem to be a good value, and sound good too, but I like the JJs better and they do not cost much more...a couple bucks each.

Now when it comes to EL84s, I am the opposite. Mullard RI ftw, and I find the JJs "hard" and unreliable in cathode bias class A amps. Ymmv.


----------



## solarburn

jeffb said:


> I have not played the EL34Ls. It is my understanding they are more "metal" oriented and have higher headroom and bigger lows and less highs than the standard 34 and the 34II. I personally don't want the extra headroom, but I still would like to give them a try. The standard JJ 34s seem to have a love/hate quality. I have played amps with them, but not the DSL so I'm hesitant to give an opinion either way.
> 
> The 34IIs I would definitely recommend. The KT77s can be a little "hi-fi" which may or may not float your boat. I don't think I would buy the Mullard RI again. Too compressed and very "small". I do like their low headroom though. The Sino/TAD seem to be a good value, and sound good too, but I like the JJs better and they do not cost much more...a couple bucks each.
> 
> Now when it comes to EL84s, I am the opposite. Mullard RI ftw, and I find the JJs "hard" and unreliable in cathode bias class A amps. Ymmv.



The 34L's have a nice tight bottom good mids and yes a restrained top end. If I want to tighten up my amps tone this is a good tube. I don't always want real tight though. I like sag and give if it can be articulate and not be flubby. Jus a bit of sag...enuff to keep away from brittle and stiff.

I've been using TAD 84's in my OR15 and 007. I find they make more of a Marshall like tone with both. I liked the Mullard's too. In fact I have a pair. I need to try one in the 007.

One of my fave 34's were GT EL34 M's. Built to sound like Mullard XF2's. Warm syrupy crunch yet all strings come through. Fantastic mids and sweet top. Fat lows. Articulate note presence while soloing.


----------



## Bownse

Still plugging along with these for nearly 2 years now. I like the new demo just posted that there's a new EL34 to the family.


----------



## solarburn

Jeff if you get a wild hair try the JJAy7 in V2. You already have the 83MG.

Would be very interested in what you think. If you get bored.lol


----------



## Snow and Steel

I install the el34L's in all mine.

Tighter bass, slightly softer highs and more prominent midrange. Noticeably more headroom. The EQ thing is sort of subtle and you could dial it in or out as you prefer, but the higher headroom is unmistakable.


----------



## jeffb

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Jeff if you get a wild hair try the JJAy7 in V2. You already have the 83MG.
> 
> Would be very interested in what you think. If you get bored.lol



Next time I make a tube order I will grab one!


----------



## ken361

Just lowered the bias from 34 to 30.2 just now, today I was jamming loud with the EVH and just seemed off some so I thought just going back were it was! after a couple drinks I said screw it ill get it off my mind The mids seem warmer some and smoother I will see Sunday I only played for a few minutes so.


----------



## ken361

My PV is higher here at 475 or so.So I'm just under the hot zone. The red 1 is a bit fatter sounding.


----------



## Bownse

Looking at the table I uploaded yesterday, I noticed that my bias (at ~36) is on the cool side. May bump it to 38.


----------



## solarburn

L2


----------



## solarburn

L1


----------



## Blueslicks

solarburnDSL50 said:


> L2





solarburnDSL50 said:


> L1



Badass.


----------



## solarburn

Blueslicks said:


> Badass.



LOL ! Thanks my friend. And real badass!


----------



## ken361

Dam I was running my amp in the 8 ohms yikes for a hour well it was warmer and some more sag I liked it but a little quieter. Switched it to 16 and was louder and more dynamic! still better and tighter and dynamic then set to 34 mv!


----------



## solarburn

ken361 said:


> Dam I was running my amp in the 8 ohms yikes for a hour well it was warmer and some more sag I liked it but a little quieter. Switched it to 16 and was louder and more dynamic! still better and tighter and dynamic then set to 34 mv!



Quit trying to kill your amp for cooler tone.

Some people...LOL


----------



## solarburn

You guys ever mess with low gain on the red side?

L2 gain at 2 on the knob. Neutered V 2.


----------



## ken361

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Quit trying to kill your amp for cooler tone.
> 
> Some people...LOL


drinking


----------



## solarburn

ken361 said:


> drinking



That's a given.


----------



## ken361

solarburnDSL50 said:


> That's a given.


I was disappointed/pissed how was EVH was responding to the bias I knew it sounded and played and felt better before so I decided at the last minute to take it apart and redo it. I know most wont agree but it was more smoother/tighter distortion and fatter! crunch channel really breaks up nice now also. Tubes drift a lot so every few months it should be checked.


----------



## ken361

ken361 said:


> I was disappointed/pissed how was EVH was responding to the bias I knew it sounded and played and felt better before so I decided at the last minute to take it apart and redo it. I know most wont agree but it was more smoother/tighter distortion and fatter! crunch channel really breaks up nice now also. Tubes drift a lot so every few months it should be checked.


More edgy trebly sounding when hotter blaw


----------



## solarburn

ken361 said:


> I was disappointed/pissed how was EVH was responding to the bias I knew it sounded and played and felt better before so I decided at the last minute to take it apart and redo it. I know most wont agree but it was more smoother/tighter distortion and fatter! crunch channel really breaks up nice now also. Tubes drift a lot so every few months it should be checked.



Your ears are what matter! What sounds best to you.


----------



## solarburn

I keep my bias around 65% or 60%. Hotter has always muddied up the tone. Remember I play at volume most of the time.

Doing so changes the tone significantly.


----------



## ken361

Also noticed my handle is cracked were it mounts  on both sides you know were it screws in yeah those are plastic. From lifting it every weekend.


----------



## ken361

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I keep my bias around 65% or 60%. Hotter has always muddied up the tone. Remember I play at volume most of the time.
> 
> Doing so changes the tone significantly.


yeah it was kinda like that


----------



## solarburn

ken361 said:


> Also noticed my handle is cracked were it mounts  on both sides you know were it screws in yeah those are plastic. From lifting it every weekend.



Hey Marshall....build solid. Tone matterz and so does the MF 'n handles.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Got a JJ ECC83MG today and put it in V1. Its supposed to be between the more aggressive ECC83S and the ECC803S.
> 
> It sounds great and goes into singing harmonics nicely. It compliments the 12AY7 I have in V2. Anyways give it a try if you want to try a more polite JJ ECC83S.
> 
> http://www.eurotubes.com/store/pc/viewCategories.asp?idCategory=39



I've wanted to try the ECC83MG, might crab a couple some day!


----------



## solarburn

I'm hearing some pluses and minuses with the 12AY7 in V2.

I put a nice German 12AX7 in V 2 this morn. Gonna demo and see what it offers over the 12AY7.


----------



## solarburn

Tone ebbs and flows.

Try to pin it down and find yourself TOO controlling.

Let it flow. Put your fingers where they sing and carry a conversation our mouths try to say. Play music. Wring that neck.


----------



## BanditPanda

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Tone ebbs and flows.
> 
> Try to pin it down and find yourself TOO controlling.
> 
> Let it flow. Put your fingers where they sing and carry a conversation our mouths try to say. Play music. Wring that neck.



Talking to yourself again I see !! lmao


----------



## solarburn

BanditPanda said:


> Talking to yourself again I see !! lmao



Hehee!


----------



## solarburn

BanditPanda said:


> Talking to yourself again I see !! lmao



Dammit BP...you know what I's mean...


----------



## solarburn

I put a gat daem 12Ax7 in V2.


----------



## solarburn

Jeebus the volume increase alone...


----------



## G the wildman

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I put a gat daem 12Ax7 in V2.



Could be my Iphone but the note clarity is much better on your previous recordings. This sounds a little fuzzy. Great playing all the same. Thank you.

G


----------



## solarburn

G the wildman said:


> Could be my Iphone but the note clarity is much better on your previous recordings. This sounds a little fuzzy. Great playing all the same. Thank you.
> 
> G



Thanks for that. Yeah I agree the solo notes are better but I think the rhythm playing sounds better with the change. There seems to be a trade off between the two.


----------



## solarburn

. sorry guys...I had to service my girl. She likes the thump of those German made 12AX7's. Lorenz for the win.


----------



## solarburn

G the wildman said:


> Could be my Iphone but the note clarity is much better on your previous recordings. This sounds a little fuzzy. Great playing all the same. Thank you.
> 
> G



Thanks G!


----------



## ken361

Some chorus for ya


----------



## solarburn

ken361 said:


> Some chorus for ya




Why yes...I like it...I like it a lot.


----------



## H_Danger

Hi there. One of my first posts here.

I know the questions about tubes are never-ending but... Im looking for recommendations. I want to stay close to the "stock" sound and if there's anything out there that you guys can recommend it would be great.

Here's a clip of what the amp sounds like right now. Its a stock DSL40C with a Creamback (65W). I recorded this for a friend that's interested in more or less the same setup I currently have. (Don't mind the sloppy playing. Im currently nursing a broken left ring finger.)

Thanks



Testing a Tone City Golden Plexi and a TS9 Tube Screamer through a Marshall DSL40C at pentode (full power).

Classic gain channel:
Gain: 5
Vol: 2

Ultra Gain channel (lead 1):
Gain: 6
Vol: 1.5 - 2

EQ:
Treble: 5
Mid: 6
Bass: 7

Tone Shift: off

Tubes: stock

Guitar:
2005 Epiphone Les Paul Custom


----------



## rlowe

ken361 said:


> Some chorus for ya



Now, that sounds a lot better. The chorus has a nice blend, what chorus are you using? I forked out a few xtra bucks to get a Strymon blue sky reverb recently which really surprised me, as I have other pedals on my board that seemed to wake up (quality wise) after the addition, notably the MXR fullbore metal. I had a mxr 300 reverb that sounded good, but design issues warranted an exchange. Strymon makes good, quality pedals and after this experience, I will highly consider their lineup.


----------



## ken361

rlowe said:


> Now, that sounds a lot better. The chorus has a nice blend, what chorus are you using? I forked out a few xtra bucks to get a Strymon blue sky reverb recently which really surprised me, as I have other pedals on my board that seemed to wake up (quality wise) after the addition, notably the MXR fullbore metal. I had a mxr 300 reverb that sounded good, but design issues warranted an exchange. Strymon makes good, quality pedals and after this experience, I will highly consider their lineup.


its actually a plug in from the Albeton live 8 software free version I installed a few years back I would like to get a pedal again though.


----------



## ken361

H_Danger said:


> Hi there. One of my first posts here.
> 
> I know the questions about tubes are never-ending but... Im looking for recommendations. I want to stay close to the "stock" sound and if there's anything out there that you guys can recommend it would be great.
> 
> Here's a clip of what the amp sounds like right now. Its a stock DSL40C with a Creamback (65W). I recorded this for a friend that's interested in more or less the same setup I currently have. (Don't mind the sloppy playing. Im currently nursing a broken left ring finger.)
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> Testing a Tone City Golden Plexi and a TS9 Tube Screamer through a Marshall DSL40C at pentode (full power).
> 
> Classic gain channel:
> Gain: 5
> Vol: 2
> 
> Ultra Gain channel (lead 1):
> Gain: 6
> Vol: 1.5 - 2
> 
> EQ:
> Treble: 5
> Mid: 6
> Bass: 7
> 
> Tone Shift: off
> 
> Tubes: stock
> 
> Guitar:
> 2005 Epiphone Les Paul Custom



I just noticed the other day that plexi pedal in a demo, how you like it?


----------



## rlowe

ken361 said:


> its actually a plug in from the Albeton live 8 software free version I installed a few years back I would like to get a pedal again though.


I used that a few years back with my Fender mustang amp. Used and considered only some of it used with the Mustang amp. Of course you mixed after recording? using the Dsl amp. The chorus does sound decent using the Dsl.


----------



## ken361

rlowe said:


> I used that a few years back with my Fender mustang amp. Used and considered only some of it used with the Mustang amp. Of course you mixed after recording? using the Dsl amp. The chorus does sound decent using the Dsl.


during the recording


----------



## ken361

George Lynch told me he used a little chorus to fatten his tone up.


----------



## rlowe

ken361 said:


> during the recording


When I got back to playing a few years ago, I used that Mustang amp being impressive at first, but became harsh and too synthetic after awhile. I liked maybe one, or two channels then said no more for me. Maybe Dsp somewhere down the road, but today Tube is king!


----------



## H_Danger

ken361 said:


> I just noticed the other day that plexi pedal in a demo, how you like it?



Its a bit "thin" at lower volumes but I like it. I got it to use it on an old Marshall Vavlestate AVT20 combo that I had and it was good. It sounds even better on the DSL through the Creamback but you have to crank the volume a bit to hear it roar.


----------



## H_Danger

Plus it was only $50. Built tough as well.


----------



## solarburn

Thought I'd fuck this thread up with a spontaneous mess of DSL40...


----------



## BanditPanda

Knew we could count on you !!
That was quite good. You started cooking towards the end there.
BP


----------



## solarburn

BanditPanda said:


> Knew we could count on you !!
> That was quite good. You started cooking towards the end there.
> BP



BP I can count on you for festivity! You're my kinda guy!


----------



## ken361

Fireball inspired  like it,plug it in the evh next!


----------



## Bownse

Thanks again, guys. Been playing and practicing instead of nob twiddling. On the recent posts about tone shaping, I got motivated and switched around some settings on my D5L40c (that goes to 11).

Moved everything around to:

4,3,7,2,5,6,8,3,6,11,11 (adjust your dials as needed if using plebian number systems.  )

Great results!


----------



## MarshallDog

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I'm hearing some pluses and minuses with the 12AY7 in V2.
> 
> I put a nice German 12AX7 in V 2 this morn. Gonna demo and see what it offers over the 12AY7.



I personally dont like a 12ay7 in any slots, just kills the volume and changes the ton and feel too much. I do like the Mullard EL34s combined with the EH 12ax7s in this amp. Makes her sound more juicy and I keep the gain on channel 2 about 2 on the dial. Give it a try if you have these tubes lying around. I bias at 2 mAs below hot also.


----------



## wolfpack

Just played mine through a Bogner closed back 2x12.
Wow, massive difference in feel & tone.
The combo sounds like a small old AM radio in comparison.
I'm converting to a head shell & will probably give away or toss the combo shell.


----------



## BanditPanda

Is there a difference in feel & tone between 1 x12 and 2 x 12 cabinets? Yes
Is there a difference in feel & tone between closed back and open back cabs ? Yes.
Is there a difference in feel & tone between playing thru a combo and a head / cab? Yes.
Has any fully functional DSL40C properly EQ'd sounded like a small , old am radio?
No. Nevah !!
BP.
p.s. Wolfie, will ya give me the shell please ?


----------



## Bownse

I have one, too. OEM 1x12 DSL40C cabinet. I sure as hell ain't paying shipping though. That's a weighty proposition.


----------



## BanditPanda

Bownse said:


> I have one, too. OEM 1x12 DSL40C cabinet. I sure as hell ain't paying shipping though. That's a weighty proposition.


From Ceti Alpha 5 that would cost a fortune plus I'd be long gone by the time it got here!!


----------



## wolfpack

BanditPanda said:


> Is there a difference in feel & tone between 1 x12 and 2 x 12 cabinets? Yes
> Is there a difference in feel & tone between closed back and open back cabs ? Yes.
> Is there a difference in feel & tone between playing thru a combo and a head / cab? Yes.
> Has any fully functional DSL40C properly EQ'd sounded like a small , old am radio?
> No. Nevah !!
> BP.
> p.s. Wolfie, will ya give me the shell please ?



I've been a 4x12 & head player for 35 years, so
Fully functional DSL40 ? Yes
Properly EQ'd ? Yes
Sounds like an old AM radio in comparison ? Yes

I'm in CA, you come pick it up, it's your's


----------



## BanditPanda

Well Wolfie, each to their own I guess however I can tell you without a doubt there is not a DSL40C owner on this forum that will say that amp sounds like a small old AM radio.!
Well at least you're keeping the DSL40 head so you or it can't be all bad.
You're in CA? I'll start driving tonight and be there by Sunday.
Wait..it doesn't have that Proposition 65 sticker on it does it?
BP


----------



## wolfpack

Come get your free MDF dumpster baby


----------



## solarburn

It don't matter if it's birch or MDF more speaker will sound awesome. I've plugged mine into my 5153 412 with G12M's and it sounded killer.

However this 112 gets full and loud for a 112 and I've got better cabs. My only complaint is the MDF is heavy.


----------



## BanditPanda

wolfpack said:


> Come get your free MDF dumpster baby



Actually, if I remember correctly ( as told by a member of this forum ), the DSL40C cab is made with HDF ( High Density ) not MDF (Medium Density) Fiberboard.
I believe consensus is that cabinet material can account for up to 25% of tonal quality and although not insignificant I'm thinking that it is not enough ( in terms of HDF vs Baltic Birch loaded with 2 x 12 V30's to turn a really good sounding amp such as the DSL 40C into a small, old, a.m. radio sounding amp.
There is No Doubt that the above 2 x12 BBB cabinet will definitely enhance the tone of a stock DSL40C.
In any event Wolfie you're just trolling at this point so....lets move on.
BP


----------



## wolfpack

I'm kickin this shitbox out of my car like Pacinos TV in Heat


----------



## J.LaGrassa

I think the combo sounds fine on it's own, if I want to push more air just add anothe 1x12 ext cab... BAM a much bigger sound.


----------



## BanditPanda

Make it a closed back Bogner Baltic Birch cab with a V30 and everybody's happy. lol


----------



## ken361

I asked my tech should I still run it at 30 with the plate voltage at 475 or so. I ran it at 34 to 36 before with no real issues until he set it at 30 in Dec. Then I tried 34 seemed ok at the time then a week later I took my other guitar to play loud and the distortion seemed off some and not as tight and warm sounding so i set it back were it was
Quote:
30 - 32 ma is a good setting for most 40 to 70 watt amps running 440 to 500 vDC plate voltage. You can run them hotter (35 to 40 ma) but it will just burn your tubes up faster and it does not "Sound Better" 99% of the time.
As long as you do not get crossover distortion before clipping there is no need to run them hotter and burn them up faster.
There are exceptions to this of course, but Marshall DSL40c is not one of them.

Regards,


Dean R. Zink


----------



## J.LaGrassa

ken361 said:


> I asked my tech still run it at 30 with the plate voltage at 475 or so. I ran it at 34 to 36 before with no real issues until he set it at 30 in Dec. Then I tried 34 seemed ok at the time then a week later I took my other guitar to play loud and the distortion seemed off some and not as tight and warm sounding so i set it back were it was
> Quote:
> 30 - 32 ma is a good setting for most 40 to 70 watt amps running 440 to 500 vDC plate voltage. You can run them hotter (35 to 40 ma) but it will just burn your tubes up faster and it does not "Sound Better" 99% of the time.
> As long as you do not get crossover distortion before clipping there is no need to run them hotter and burn them up faster.
> There are exceptions to this of course, but Marshall DSL40c is not one of them.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> 
> Dean R. Zink




I like the GT EL34M at around 34-35mA, JJ E34L around 36mA and the Stock TAD EL34 sound fine to me around 32-34mA in the DSL40, so for me there is no magic # plus there are a lot of other variables that play a role in your tone.


----------



## ken361

.I wish I had a second cab I could hook up so I could bias and play at the same time.


----------



## solarburn

ken361 said:


> .I wish I had a second cab I could hook up so I could bias and play at the same time.



I did this with my DSL50. Learned a lot about power tube variances, minor drifting, wall voltage changes and heat or time played effecting bias and tone. Course bias is checked at idle not while playing.LOL

Learned too hot was muddy and too cold brittle. I prefer to go cooler to save valve life and it's not so difficult to avoid a brittle sound and stiff feel now that I did all that power tube rolling and biasing with my DSL50.


----------



## Jam81

Has anybody done or thought about doing this? I wonder how complicated it would be and if it could be done with all 4 channels.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Jam81 said:


> Has anybody done or thought about doing this? I wonder how complicated it would be and if it could be done with all 4 channels.




not bad, but for me I would rather just use a low gain dirt pedal to drive the channel harder rather than mod the amp.


----------



## BanditPanda

Jam81 said:


> Has anybody done or thought about doing this? I wonder how complicated it would be and if it could be done with all 4 channels.




It's very good. What's been fixed is something that most complained that the DSL was lacking.


----------



## ken361

I see Paul Gilbert still uses this pedal in a premier Guitar interview, so I found this video I think it could be good boosting the DSL and its only 50 bucks! has a built increased voltage over most pedals like tube Screamers


----------



## BanditPanda

Got it. Don't like it. Not for humbuckers anyway and most demos are with single coils.
Didn't spend a hour on my board ! Lot's of players do like it though and there are some really good sounding demos of it.
I'll sell it to ya Ken. I think I've got the original packaging etc.,. Bought it new January 2016.
It is like new.
Shouldn't cost much to mail it from Montreal to Detroit.
I'll look into that if you're interested.
BP


----------



## ken361

didnt sound good boosting the green or red huh


----------



## BanditPanda

ken361 said:


> didnt sound good boosting the green or red huh


I'm a green & clean guy. Never delve into the Gain channels and never tried the Mojomojo in them.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

ken361 said:


> I see Paul Gilbert still uses this pedal in a premier Guitar interview, so I found this video I think it could be good boosting the DSL and its only 50 bucks! has a built increased voltage over most pedals like tube Screamers





What's the head he is using in that demo, headroom doesnt seem to high on the amp.


----------



## ken361

J.LaGrassa said:


> What's the head he is using in that demo, headroom doesnt seem to high on the amp.


looks like a 2061 JMP 
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/amplifiers-effects/marshall-2061x-handwired-20w-amp-head


----------



## oldmanrockin

To clip the c19 do you have to discharge any voltage or is there a order of steps to follow.


----------



## Bownse

oldmanrockin said:


> To clip the c19 do you have to discharge any voltage or is there a order of steps to follow.



To do ANYTHING in a tube amp, you need to discharge the capacitors. Any other path is the way to death and destruction.

Turn it off, unplug it, power up the switches, let it set for a few hours. There are quicker ways but this is the simplist if you are asking the above.


----------



## solarburn

Less noodling more rhythm. Put 2 83MG'S in now. L1 gain at 6. Mids are a bit more shcwanky. Left EQ the same as before. Good articulation as I increase guitar volume to max. Cleans up with pick attack. Less gain for sure.

Unfucking rehearsed and unpolished. Turd central hehee.


----------



## solarburn

Do you like it?


----------



## solarburn

Bro's!


----------



## solarburn

I'm so stoopee!


----------



## ken361

Are you guys using some reverb or delay/echo all the time ?


----------



## BanditPanda

ken361 said:


> Are you guys using some reverb or delay/echo all the time ?



No It's just Solar's TV in the back ground that you're hearing ! lol


----------



## J.LaGrassa

ken361 said:


> Are you guys using some reverb or delay/echo all the time ?



I leave Reverb on all the time and use Delay quite a bit but never on all the time.


----------



## solarburn

BanditPanda said:


> No It's just Solar's TV in the back ground that you're hearing ! lol



Yep. LoL


----------



## BanditPanda

J.LaGrassa said:


> I leave Reverb on all the time and use Delay quite a bit but never on all the time.


Me too with the reverb. Do you use the amps or a pedal? I use the Hardwire RVB7.
I generally leave the delay on all the time just a touch for the added depth except where it doesn't fit right, like when playing some Stones tunes.
Running both thru the loop.


----------



## ken361

J.LaGrassa said:


> I leave Reverb on all the time and use Delay quite a bit but never on all the time.


Still like the TC pedals?


----------



## ken361

I have a little echo going but it seems to add some highs,not sure if its the pedals quality.


----------



## solarburn

I'm sitting in the backyard...right now...and I'm wondering how much bigger my dick will grow...

Why? Cause I rawk Marshall amps. Freeks!


----------



## solarburn

The reverb doesn't work on this amp.


----------



## solarburn

Hey?


----------



## solarburn

Fuckerz!


----------



## solarburn

Oooooh! My reverb adds a whole nuther dimension...

NOT!


----------



## solarburn

OK...somebody gave me a boner. Could of been my hot neighbor....


----------



## J.LaGrassa

BanditPanda said:


> Me too with the reverb. Do you use the amps or a pedal? I use the Hardwire RVB7.
> I generally leave the delay on all the time just a touch for the added depth except where it doesn't fit right, like when playing some Stones tunes.
> Running both thru the loop.



I use the amps reverb, I dont over use reverb but just enough there to keep it a little wet same with delay and lately I kind of prefer delay around 250MS or less.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

ken361 said:


> Still like the TC pedals?



I like them but didnt keep them, one thing I notice is that add a little bit of hiss when on, the 3 I had all did it. Went back to the Boss DD3 which is very quiet and still my favoriite delay.


----------



## solarburn

Reeeeeeeeeealy.

Try a ECC83MG IN V1&V2.

UNLESS the reverb makes your tonez...


----------



## Muziekschuur

Any similarity between the MA50C mods and the DSL40C ? (Apart from digital verb vs spring verb in the MA50C)


----------



## solarburn

Muziekschuur said:


> Any similarity between the MA50C mods and the DSL40C ? (Apart from digital verb vs spring verb in the MA50C)



No


----------



## Muziekschuur

Thank you.


----------



## solarburn

So what do you have?


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Put all the JJ tubes back in this time I biased the JJ E34L at 40mA, best i have heard them set at this bias level. DSL40C using 4 ECC83S and a pair of JJ E34L. Speaker is a Celestion V-Type, this speaker i really starting to come alive now!


----------



## Derald

I just got a new to me DSL40 in mint shape. I noticed the back had never been taken off. It still had the factory Marshall branded tubes. I changed out V1 and V2. In their placed I a JJ ECCC823 in V1 and a 5751 in V2. 

I spent about a day dialing in the amp, and it sounds amazing. The Red channel is now usable for a low-gain player like me. Hardly any amp hiss or noise. I run the amp into a reactive load box and use IR cabinets for recording. 

Compared to my Vintage Modern, this DSL40 is pretty damn close to the 'vintage' tone I want. Its also about 25# lighter and smaller than the Vintage Modern so I can carry it around easier.

I run the green channel with the 'crunch' engaged with the gain on about 5 and volume at maximum (when running into the load box). Sweet AC/DC crunch sound. The Red channel has more gain and less bottom end but gets that lead ACDC, Thin Lizzy tone without being way over the top in gain and amp buzz/hiss. I run the Red channel at about 3 for gain and volume at maximum (into load box). 

The EQ is shared of course but I don't feel the need to tweak it when changing channels. I keep the EQ on about 7 for T and B and 5 for M. Presence is at maximum and Resonance at about 5. 

Great amp, super impressed, was half the cost of my Vintage Modern, and about 33% of the weight and size. Just wanted to share my new experience with the DSL40.

Good job Marshall!


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Derald said:


> I just got a new to me DSL40 in mint shape. I noticed the back had never been taken off. It still had the factory Marshall branded tubes. I changed out V1 and V2. In their placed I a JJ ECCC823 in V1 and a 5751 in V2.
> 
> I spent about a day dialing in the amp, and it sounds amazing. The Red channel is now usable for a low-gain player like me. Hardly any amp hiss or noise. I run the amp into a reactive load box and use IR cabinets for recording.
> 
> Compared to my Vintage Modern, this DSL40 is pretty damn close to the 'vintage' tone I want. Its also about 25# lighter and smaller than the Vintage Modern so I can carry it around easier.
> 
> I run the green channel with the 'crunch' engaged with the gain on about 5 and volume at maximum (when running into the load box). Sweet AC/DC crunch sound. The Red channel has more gain and less bottom end but gets that lead ACDC, Thin Lizzy tone without being way over the top in gain and amp buzz/hiss. I run the Red channel at about 3 for gain and volume at maximum (into load box).
> 
> The EQ is shared of course but I don't feel the need to tweak it when changing channels. I keep the EQ on about 7 for T and B and 5 for M. Presence is at maximum and Resonance at about 5.
> 
> Great amp, super impressed, was half the cost of my Vintage Modern, and about 33% of the weight and size. Just wanted to share my new experience with the DSL40.
> 
> Good job Marshall!



congrats and enjoy!! I use the crunch channel as my semi clean tone and all the heavier stuff on the Lead 1 mode, and like your self I find the shared EQ is just fine or I use the tone knob on my guitar if I think its a liitle bright but most times I'm just fine.


----------



## whitecloud

Derald said:


> I just got a new to me DSL40 in mint shape. I noticed the back had never been taken off. It still had the factory Marshall branded tubes. I changed out V1 and V2. In their placed I a JJ ECCC823 in V1 and a 5751 in V2.
> 
> I spent about a day dialing in the amp, and it sounds amazing. The Red channel is now usable for a low-gain player like me. Hardly any amp hiss or noise. I run the amp into a reactive load box and use IR cabinets for recording.
> 
> Compared to my Vintage Modern, this DSL40 is pretty damn close to the 'vintage' tone I want. Its also about 25# lighter and smaller than the Vintage Modern so I can carry it around easier.
> 
> I run the green channel with the 'crunch' engaged with the gain on about 5 and volume at maximum (when running into the load box). Sweet AC/DC crunch sound. The Red channel has more gain and less bottom end but gets that lead ACDC, Thin Lizzy tone without being way over the top in gain and amp buzz/hiss. I run the Red channel at about 3 for gain and volume at maximum (into load box).
> 
> The EQ is shared of course but I don't feel the need to tweak it when changing channels. I keep the EQ on about 7 for T and B and 5 for M. Presence is at maximum and Resonance at about 5.
> 
> Great amp, super impressed, was half the cost of my Vintage Modern, and about 33% of the weight and size. Just wanted to share my new experience with the DSL40.
> 
> Good job Marshall!


Welcome aboard, with you running the amp full bore you are going to get those el34's cooking and less need to "tame" the brightness. Curious which load box are you using? IR's? I have the two notes plugin but haven't bought a reactive box, say like the Suhr but have tried preamp gain. If I ever go that route may check out Celestion's IR's


----------



## Derald

I use the Suhr load box and Two Notes IRs. I had a Mesa Boogie Cab Clone which was nice too. The built-in cab emulation was just ok though. It has a direct out that is emulated and one that is not, which I used with my interface and Two Notes IRs. I since upgraded to the Suhr. I say upgraded but honestly I don't really notice a difference. The load box itself just absorbs the speaker output. Technically the Suhr is a reactive load box, but my guitar playing skill is not at that level that I can tell any difference. I sold an amp (TSL122) and I threw in the Cab Clone, so that is why I got the Suhr. 

I have about a dozen Two-Notes IRs and honestly once I pick a combo that sounds nice I just save it and it becomes my go-to cabinet. I highly recommend the Two Notes IRs. They really are great. A plethora of options like cabinets, mics, placement, etc. You can spend days tweaking a cabinet! I got the right combination of cabinets the DSL40 is not fizzy or buzzy at all, even at maximum volume. 

I would never run the DSL40 or any amp at wide open unless its into the load box - would be WAY too loud. I track using headphones and practice using my studio monitors. The volume level is totally manageable and still sounds bad-ass, no tone loss of course because the amp is not being attenuated. This is true for the DSL40 and my Vintage Modern, which is an amazing amp itself.

Using the load box, at wide open, the amp sounds amazing. Not quite the same as my Vintage Modern with its KT66's, but nonetheless I'm very happy with the tone.


----------



## solarburn

Lil diddy on L2 gain at 2. No volume rolling...pick attack changes hard/soft. Clipped phone mic at the end. Oops.


----------



## whitecloud

Derald said:


> I use the Suhr load box and Two Notes IRs. I had a Mesa Boogie Cab Clone which was nice too. The built-in cab emulation was just ok though. It has a direct out that is emulated and one that is not, which I used with my interface and Two Notes IRs. I since upgraded to the Suhr. I say upgraded but honestly I don't really notice a difference. The load box itself just absorbs the speaker output. Technically the Suhr is a reactive load box, but my guitar playing skill is not at that level that I can tell any difference. I sold an amp (TSL122) and I threw in the Cab Clone, so that is why I got the Suhr.
> 
> I have about a dozen Two-Notes IRs and honestly once I pick a combo that sounds nice I just save it and it becomes my go-to cabinet. I highly recommend the Two Notes IRs. They really are great. A plethora of options like cabinets, mics, placement, etc. You can spend days tweaking a cabinet! I got the right combination of cabinets the DSL40 is not fizzy or buzzy at all, even at maximum volume.
> 
> I would never run the DSL40 or any amp at wide open unless its into the load box - would be WAY too loud. I track using headphones and practice using my studio monitors. The volume level is totally manageable and still sounds bad-ass, no tone loss of course because the amp is not being attenuated. This is true for the DSL40 and my Vintage Modern, which is an amazing amp itself.
> 
> Using the load box, at wide open, the amp sounds amazing. Not quite the same as my Vintage Modern with its KT66's, but nonetheless I'm very happy with the tone.


Thanks for the replies. I am curious as there may be a time that something like this may be of use. There's plenty discussion on the Suhr and others and I actually am waiting to see/hear the Two Notes Captor box when that gets released. I only have a few Two notes IR's but since I am not using a load box, no need for more and hear good things about the Celestion IR's. I would think running the amp full tilt into one of these boxes might not be ideal as in the "real world" going into a speaker there is that sweet spot that starts losing it at some point with the volume/gain knobs. Not really any louder but maybe there is too much to factor in to be sure. Is it the amp or the cab that is farting out kinda deal. Miking amp/cabs is a love hate thing for me as I do enjoy the challenge especially if all goes well, then there times not so much. I do occasionally use a Little Labs RedEye reamp box and that really is great way of salvaging a great performance and a not so great recording.


----------



## whitecloud

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Lil diddy on L2 gain at 2. No volume rolling...pick attack changes hard/soft. Clipped phone mic at the end. Oops.



Cool man, so we can count on these clips every Friday night? Might think there was something amiss if there wasn't


----------



## solarburn

whitecloud said:


> Cool man, so we can count on these clips every Friday night? Might think there was something amiss if there wasn't



Well I won't indulge every Friday. Hehee.

I like how the mids have a bit more meat with the ECC83MG in V1 and V2. Kinda cool sounding for certain stuff.


----------



## BanditPanda

whitecloud said:


> Cool man, so we can count on these clips every Friday night? Might think there was something amiss if there wasn't



oh..now you've done it !!!


----------



## solarburn

BanditPanda said:


> oh..now you've done it !!!



No worries BP. I won't do it.lol


----------



## BanditPanda

solarburnDSL50 said:


> No worries BP. I won't do it.lol


Don't be so stoopee ! Would be better than your Fridays Rawk that you used to do.


----------



## solarburn

BanditPanda said:


> Don't be so stoopee ! Would be better than your Fridays Rawk that you used to do.


----------



## solarburn

You guys know I have a blast with my DSL40. Fun amp!

I haven't lit my 5153 412 with G12M's up for awhile. My DSL40 is out in the living room. My 412 is in the fuck room...I mean my bedroom. Thought I'd run my 900 clone and exercise the G12M's a bit.

Fuuuuuuuuuk. Wow and yes I came. There is nothing like a quality 412 getting pushed to make your 112 combo sound bad. Honestly...the diff is epic.

However I can just plug my 40 into it and boom! Same thing. My point is how epic the diff is sound field wise between a 112 cab and a 412. Good thing I know better and can set either up for great results. Hands down no if and or butts...a quality 412 blows the 112 cab away...in an open room....house...rehearsal studio whatever. Recording wise or mixed live is excluded here.


----------



## BanditPanda

solarburnDSL50 said:


> You guys know I have a blast with my DSL40. Fun amp!
> 
> I haven't lit my 5153 412 with G12M's up for awhile. My DSL40 is out in the living room. My 412 is in the fuck room...I mean my bedroom. Thought I'd run my 900 clone and exercise the G12M's a bit.
> 
> Fuuuuuuuuuk. Wow and yes I came. There is nothing like a quality 412 getting pushed to make your 112 combo sound bad. Honestly...the diff is epic.
> 
> However I can just plug my 40 into it and boom! Same thing. My point is how epic the diff is sound field wise between a 112 cab and a 412. Good thing I know better and can set either up for great results. Hands down no if and or butts...a quality 412 blows the 112 cab away...in an open room....house...rehearsal studio whatever. Recording wise or mixed live is excluded here.


Well yeah buddy !!! a Fiat 500 vs a 5.0 'stang.!
Just please don't say it made the 40DSL sound like an old small transistor radio !! lol
BP


----------



## ken361

I noticed when I had a Fender the open cab distibutes the sound around, so having both type cabs maybe a good thing?


----------



## BanditPanda

ken361 said:


> I noticed when I had a Fender the open cab distibutes the sound around, so having both type cabs maybe a good thing?



Agreed. If I were to get a 1 x 12 extension cab to go with the DSL40C it would definitely be a closed back.


----------



## BanditPanda

Hey Ken you know what struck me as funny...... for the price of an extension cab and speaker you could probably get a used DSL40C!!
That would be cool. Plugging into 2 x 40DSL's eh?


----------



## solarburn

Don't get me wrong fellas. The DSL40 rips. Big sound in a 112 for those of us that imbibe in enough power section.

It's just that I haven't played through a half stack for quite awhile and you can blame that on the 40 combo. 

I have a full stack too but I say nothing. It's religious and I kid you not.

As far as transistor? No. For a 112 it thumps. Ask my neighbors...


----------



## solarburn

I wouldn't mind getting a DSL100H to plug into my 412's. Yeah man.


----------



## ken361

BanditPanda said:


> Hey Ken you know what struck me as funny...... for the price of an extension cab and speaker you could probably get a used DSL40C!!
> That would be cool. Plugging into 2 x 40DSL's eh?


Yeah! I I use to have 412 before down sizing


----------



## mark123

Micky said:


> ... Ask Marty or Alan for their recommendations if you want the most experienced opinion. ...


I've seen Marty mentioned but have no idea how to contact this person. Is that this person's screen name on the forum?


----------



## ken361

Marty Overbey is on Facebook


----------



## ken361

Jamming the crunch channel on max,totally Marshall goodness


----------



## mark123

ken361 said:


> Marty Overbey is on Facebook


Danke schön!


----------



## ken361

mark123 said:


> I've seen Marty mentioned but have no idea how to contact this person. Is that this person's screen name on the forum?


Marty Strat, I think he got booted off here for some reason


----------



## J.LaGrassa

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I wouldn't mind getting a DSL100H to plug into my 412's. Yeah man.



Been about 14 years now since I used a 1/2 stack I had the DSL50 with an old JCM800 4x12 cab, miss that amp but dont miss lugging it around!!


----------



## solarburn

mark123 said:


> I've seen Marty mentioned but have no idea how to contact this person. Is that this person's screen name on the forum?



Why do you want him?


----------



## ken361

Anyone using Audacity to record got a newer computer and was using Ableton Live 8 free addition but I cant find a good realible down load. Audiacity is giving me problems getting sound with both channels,only getting sound from the right side.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

ken361 said:


> Anyone using Audacity to record got a newer computer and was using Ableton Live 8 free addition but I cant find a good realible down load. Audiacity is giving me problems getting sound with both channels,only getting sound from the right side.




I use Audacity but just for editing, what Interface are you using?


----------



## ken361

M Audio its the older one


----------



## ken361

Shits kinda confusing lol


----------



## ken361

Will be back on in a bit thanks


----------



## Micky

ken361 said:


> Marty Strat, I think he got booted off here for some reason


Marty left during the 2nd shitstorm.
He is out of the tube business, but his Preamp Tube Thread is epic...


----------



## Bownse

ken361 said:


> Anyone using Audacity to record got a newer computer and was using Ableton Live 8 free addition but I cant find a good realible down load. Audiacity is giving me problems getting sound with both channels,only getting sound from the right side.



I record with Garage Band and then mix down with Audacity often.

As for an external 412 cab, I find the closed-back 212 cab to be very good too.

http://www.fjr-tips.org/misc/amp/DSL40C_Mod/A_Project.html#9


----------



## whitecloud

ken361 said:


> Anyone using Audacity to record got a newer computer and was using Ableton Live 8 free addition but I cant find a good realible down load. Audiacity is giving me problems getting sound with both channels,only getting sound from the right side.


Harrison Mixbuss usually on sale for like 40 bucks, then there's Reaper, Me it's hard to break away from Cubase as I have used it for so many years.
Shoot many of the new and even lower end sound cards come with free lite versions of Certain DAW's. Some of these audio interfaces are under 150 bucks. Many times old interfaces aren't current with their drivers so it is usually that instead of the recording software


----------



## nikola

Guys, just wanted to find out if you have blown a speaker with this amp, regardless of amp settings?

I am asking this on the back of a blown speaker which is rated at 75W and kinda feeling bummed about it because it is one of those rare occasions where I get to crank the amp and the speaker burns.

On the "bright" note, the stock 70/80 speaker is going back into the amp


----------



## J.LaGrassa

nikola said:


> Guys, just wanted to find out if you have blown a speaker with this amp, regardless of amp settings?
> 
> I am asking this on the back of a blown speaker which is rated at 75W and kinda feeling bummed about it because it is one of those rare occasions where I get to crank the amp and the speaker burns.
> 
> On the "bright" note, the stock 70/80 speaker is going back into the amp



I Never have but I've never cranked the amp past 4 with out getting yelled at...


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Well I'm going to re-visit the Celestion Creamback 65 again should have it on Wed, the CB65 was the other speaker I enjoyed other than the V-Type. The CB65 has a fatter tone compared to the V-Type and kind of missed it, If it works out I will put the V-Type in an extension cab. I thought about trying the Redback but decided against it thinking it may be too warm for my liking.


----------



## ken361

whitecloud said:


> Harrison Mixbuss usually on sale for like 40 bucks, then there's Reaper, Me it's hard to break away from Cubase as I have used it for so many years.
> Shoot many of the new and even lower end sound cards come with free lite versions of Certain DAW's. Some of these audio interfaces are under 150 bucks. Many times old interfaces aren't current with their drivers so it is usually that instead of the recording software


Got it working I had to reconfigure the speakers,mic ect. It was located were that little speaker icon near the clock on the bottom right


----------



## ken361

J.LaGrassa said:


> Well I'm going to re-visit the Celestion Creamback 65 again should have it on Wed, the CB65 was the other speaker I enjoyed other than the V-Type. The CB65 has a fatter tone compared to the V-Type and kind of missed it, If it works out I will put the V-Type in an extension cab. I thought about trying the Redback but decided against it thinking it may be too warm for my liking.


2nd cab would be sweet


----------



## ken361

nikola said:


> Guys, just wanted to find out if you have blown a speaker with this amp, regardless of amp settings?
> 
> I am asking this on the back of a blown speaker which is rated at 75W and kinda feeling bummed about it because it is one of those rare occasions where I get to crank the amp and the speaker burns.
> 
> On the "bright" note, the stock 70/80 speaker is going back into the amp


it might be the output transformer mine made a gluey type smell for awhile only on the green channel for some reason, I did run the volume a lot higher then the red at 4. Really doubt it would blow I had mine 4 or so on the red


----------



## nikola

Well, I replaced the stock speaker and the amp works again. While I had the amp opened, I gave it a bias.

Works again


----------



## J.LaGrassa

nikola said:


> Well, I replaced the stock speaker and the amp works again. While I had the amp opened, I gave it a bias.
> 
> Works again



what was the speaker that was blown?


----------



## Wolvieberzerker

I currently have a 2555x, peavey 6534+, victory kraken. I picked up a DSL 5 watt combo a month ago. Really like it , great little amp. Been paying attention to this thread. The DSL 40c has really got my attention. But, do I need it? Anyone care to talk me out of it? Or talk me into it. My rubber arm is fairly twistable right now


----------



## ken361

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Celesti...47.gc?pfm=home_page.rr1|RecentHistoricalItems

Lynchback


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Wolvieberzerker said:


> I currently have a 2555x, peavey 6534+, victory kraken. I picked up a DSL 5 watt combo a month ago. Really like it , great little amp. Been paying attention to this thread. The DSL 40c has really got my attention. But, do I need it? Anyone care to talk me out of it? Or talk me into it. My rubber arm is fairly twistable right now



I say buy it you will be glad you did...


----------



## J.LaGrassa

woo hoo my Creamback 65 came a day earlier, installed it right away. Definitely like the fatness off this one, the top end smoothness is great as well and not so thin sounding. More expensive than I like but you can tell it's a quality speaker... I think it's well worth the money!!


----------



## Wolvieberzerker

J.LaGrassa said:


> I say buy it you will be glad you did...


I like the way you think!!


----------



## nikola

J.LaGrassa said:


> what was the speaker that was blown?


Eminence Reignmaker. The one that allows you to attenuate the volume with a knob on the speaker


----------



## BanditPanda

nikola said:


> Eminence Reignmaker. The one that allows you to attenuate the volume with a knob on the speaker



That is a very interesting speaker. What is your verdict about it?


----------



## Micky

nikola said:


> Eminence Reignmaker. The one that allows you to attenuate the volume with a knob on the speaker


Great speaker if you can get to it to adjust it...
Perfect in a Fender, not so much in a Marshall...


----------



## BanditPanda

Micky said:


> Great speaker if you can get to it to adjust it...
> Perfect in a Fender, not so much in a Marshall...



Not so much in a Marshall.... Good to know.!


----------



## Allstev

I was in a music store yesterday and saw a used 2x12 loaded with V30's I decided to buy it, I'm liking it a whole lot.


----------



## Micky

BanditPanda said:


> Not so much in a Marshall.... Good to know.!


Generally newer Marshall combos have a grate or a very small opening in the back, preventing someone from reaching in and touching the speaker...


----------



## BanditPanda

Micky said:


> Generally newer Marshall combos have a grate or a very small opening in the back, preventing someone from reaching in and touching the speaker...



Not the case with the DSL40C however.


----------



## solarburn

BanditPanda said:


> Not the case with the DSL40C however.



My DSL40 has a metal mesh to protect tubes and a small opening my hands won't fit through to adjust a speaker.

Is yours diff BP?


----------



## ken361

solarburnDSL50 said:


> My DSL40 has a metal mesh to protect tubes and a small opening my hands won't fit through to adjust a speaker.
> 
> Is yours diff BP?


Top, yeah theres a screen the lower part is opened


----------



## ken361




----------



## solarburn

ken361 said:


> Top, yeah theres a screen the lower part is opened



Yeah but not enuff to reach the reign maker and adjust...? I can't imagine anyways.


----------



## ken361

This could be a sweet boost pedal 
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/BoosterMini


----------



## BanditPanda

solarburnDSL50 said:


> My DSL40 has a metal mesh to protect tubes and a small opening my hands won't fit through to adjust a speaker.
> 
> Is yours diff BP?



No. Sorry. Yes there is a mesh screen there.


----------



## solarburn

Alright you Friday Marshall player's...


----------



## BanditPanda

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Alright you Friday Marshall player's...





Way to go and thank you SB !
That sound was very good. Kind of loosey goosey yet very focused/intense and strait to the point.
Maybe you should show us what's on the menu when you post these Friday Night Rockers
Amp:
Tubes:
Pedals:
Guitar / Pups.
I know it's a little bit of a hassle but it will give us good insight into how your sounds have been produced.
Just a thought.
BP.


----------



## solarburn

BanditPanda said:


> Way to go and thank you SB !
> That sound was very good. Kind of loosey goosey yet very focused/intense and strait to the point.
> Maybe you should show us what's on the menu when you post these Friday Night Rockers
> Amp:
> Tubes:
> Pedals:
> Guitar / Pups.
> I know it's a little bit of a hassle but it will give us good insight into how your sounds have been produced.
> Just a thought.
> BP.



900 clone red channel gain at 9 out of 22. Yeah I know it wasn't my 40 but it needed some exercise.

JJ6L6GC's
JJ ECC83MG, JJ 12AY7 and don't remember what's in the PI slot. Its a 12AX7 though.

Straight in no pedals. Cab is the 5153 412 loaded with G12M's. Guitar is a Gold Top Tele with Dimarzio Super Distortions.


----------



## solarburn

.


----------



## solarburn

Put description in my previous post...


----------



## ken361

Here's my mug doing some on the spot made up Stones type riffs, I like the new software its a free version I have for the week while using my newer pc and web cam with the mic on the cab at lower levels


----------



## solarburn

D


ken361 said:


> Here's my mug doing some on the spot made up Stones type riffs, I like the new software its a free version I have for the week while using my newer pc and web cam with the mic on the cab at lower levels




Dig!


----------



## solarburn

BanditPanda said:


> Way to go and thank you SB !
> That sound was very good. Kind of loosey goosey yet very focused/intense and strait to the point.
> Maybe you should show us what's on the menu when you post these Friday Night Rockers
> Amp:
> Tubes:
> Pedals:
> Guitar / Pups.
> I know it's a little bit of a hassle but it will give us good insight into how your sounds have been produced.
> Just a thought.
> BP.



The only thing I don't like about the tone is the solo notes come out a bit thin. I hooked up my EQ in loop and adjusted it so the solo has a bit more girth.

It's all good though. Either version I have fun with. Delay would help round those solo notes too so I have options on hand if I want to tune it more.


----------



## whitecloud

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Alright you Friday Marshall player's...



Alright, knew we could count on you


----------



## whitecloud

ken361 said:


> Here's my mug doing some on the spot made up Stones type riffs, I like the new software its a free version I have for the week while using my newer pc and web cam with the mic on the cab at lower levels



Cool putting a face to the Avatar. I have used a Webcam, Video capture software, and opted for external mics as you have. Most of the time now just use my GoPro Hero 4 Silver. I can share more about the Webcam approach if you like. I really should find time to just setup the GoPro and wail away and not worry about mic placement. Maybe before summers end


----------



## ken361

whitecloud said:


> Cool putting a face to the Avatar. I have used a Webcam, Video capture software, and opted for external mics as you have. Most of the time now just use my GoPro Hero 4 Silver. I can share more about the Webcam approach if you like. I really should find time to just setup the GoPro and wail away and not worry about mic placement. Maybe before summers end


Like to get a sm57 again, that was just a PG 58 vocal Mic. Go pro's are pretty cool cams.


----------



## mark123

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Why do you want him?


I want to trade Justin Beiber autographs. I hear his collection is immense.

What kind of question is that??


----------



## ken361

Anyone using a EP boost pedal? Remembering 2 guys on Facebook saying it made the Marshalls kinda boomy,don't really need anymore low end.I played one at GC at low levels it was really good at pushing the amp and sweetened the tone.


----------



## BanditPanda

Hi Ken

As I've probably mentioned before take a look at the EH LPB-1 Linear Power Booster Preamp


----------



## solarburn

mark123 said:


> I want to trade Justin Beiber autographs. I hear his collection is immense.
> 
> What kind of question is that??



Dead. It's been too long.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

ken361 said:


> Anyone using a EP boost pedal? Remembering 2 guys on Facebook saying it made the Marshalls kinda boomy,don't really need anymore low end.I played one at GC at low levels it was really good at pushing the amp and sweetened the tone.


Ken, I have an EP Booster but I don't like it with the DSL, like you said I think it makes it too boomy but do find the DSL to be kinda bass-heavy anyway. I use it with my JVM and JMD with better results. My favorite pedal for boosting the 40C (esp the Green channel) is the Maxon VOP9 set with drive on 0. It's a Tubescreamer variant so it tightens the bottom end a little, which I think is helpful with the DSL.


----------



## ken361

BanditPanda said:


> Hi Ken
> 
> As I've probably mentioned before take a look at the EH LPB-1 Linear Power Booster Preamp



I tried it! it was way too bassy at the condo which has more low end compared to my basement which I didn't try it though. I play mostly loud at girlfriends place on the weekend. Other thing I'm interested is the SP compressor it really adds some magic to your tone with cleans or crunch or higher gain from what I seen and herd on the videos. And the other would be the MXR mini boost with the echoplex inside.


----------



## ken361

Angus Rhoads said:


> Ken, I have an EP Booster but I don't like it with the DSL, like you said I think it makes it too boomy but do find the DSL to be kinda bass-heavy anyway. I use it with my JVM and JMD with better results. My favorite pedal for boosting the 40C (esp the Green channel) is the Maxon VOP9 set with drive on 0. It's a Tubescreamer variant so it tightens the bottom end a little, which I think is helpful with the DSL.


Even with the internal bass switch off it was still boom huh?


----------



## ken361

I found a nice sweet spot playing loud yesterday, was messing with the eq by adding mids adding some bass then going back were it was originally but added more treble to 6 with bass from 3 to 5 to fill it out and pres 5 res 4 mids 5 it sounded great and brown soundish very clear and thick sorta sounding with some echo. Results very depending were your playing at and maybe bias settings also. Wish I could show it on a video but I'm sure its hard to capture a good live tone with amateur recording gear I have  I have that chewy saggy some what tone and feel to it. Not tight and bright.


----------



## ken361

Ałso raised the pole pieces up 2 turns on the pickup to smooth out the highs


----------



## Angus Rhoads

ken361 said:


> Even with the internal bass switch off it was still boom huh?


There's actually no "bass" switch inside (unless there's a different version than the one I have), the internal switches in mine are a Bright switch that adds some high end or keeps EQ flat, and a switch that adds a 3db boost. Either way, I still notice the bomminess with the DSL.


----------



## BanditPanda

ken361 said:


> I tried it! it was way too bassy at the condo which has more low end compared to my basement which I didn't try it though. I play mostly loud at girlfriends place on the weekend. Other thing I'm interested is the SP compressor it really adds some magic to your tone with cleans or crunch or higher gain from what I seen and herd on the videos. And the other would be the MXR mini boost with the echoplex inside.



Sumtin wrong with the dynamics of the gear you were running with the LPB1 Ken.
The LPB1 is more of an upper mid boost if anything and certainly not bassy in the least.
The amp may have had the bass EQ up or perhaps the Resonance up or perhaps the guitar on the neck pick up with the tone rolled back ? Maybe you had the amp sitting on a carpet?
In any event you found it too bassy so as we say in Paree ...chacun a son gout.... lol


----------



## BanditPanda

Angus Rhoads said:


> Ken, I have an EP Booster but I don't like it with the DSL, like you said I think it makes it too boomy but do find the DSL to be kinda bass-heavy anyway. I use it with my JVM and JMD with better results. My favorite pedal for boosting the 40C (esp the Green channel) is the Maxon VOP9 set with drive on 0. It's a Tubescreamer variant so it tightens the bottom end a little, which I think is helpful with the DSL.



Angus... you find the DSL40C to be bass heavy / boomy? Even with EQ neutral and Presence / Resonance not engaged? Must admit have not noticed that about the amp.


----------



## solarburn

If he's on the green side of the amp yeah. The red side no unless eq'd like a baboon.


----------



## ken361

BanditPanda said:


> Sumtin wrong with the dynamics of the gear you were running with the LPB1 Ken.
> The LPB1 is more of an upper mid boost if anything and certainly not bassy in the least.
> The amp may have had the bass EQ up or perhaps the Resonance up or perhaps the guitar on the neck pick up with the tone rolled back ? Maybe you had the amp sitting on a carpet?
> In any event you found it too bassy so as we say in Paree ...chacun a son gout.... lol


Ran the pedal going through the front end of the amp,was on the carpet also


----------



## ken361

Bass and resonance at 3 at the time, the condo has more bass and fatter sounding opposed to my unfinished basement. Lower bias could be warmer sounding possibly.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

BanditPanda said:


> Angus... you find the DSL40C to be bass heavy / boomy? Even with EQ neutral and Presence / Resonance not engaged? Must admit have not noticed that about the amp.


Well, I should clarify - it's definitely got more prominent bass than my other Marshalls (JVM, JMD, SL5), more on the Green side but even on the Red I never have the Bass past noon and Res is usually off or low. But, the tones I go for on the Red channel are my 80s tones like Randy Rhoads, George Lynch, Warren Dimartini, etc which were on the bright side without a lot of bass (in fact almost none if you listen to the isolated tracks).


----------



## BanditPanda

Angus Rhoads said:


> Well, I should clarify - it's definitely got more prominent bass than my other Marshalls (JVM, JMD, SL5), more on the Green side but even on the Red I never have the Bass past noon and Res is usually off or low. But, the tones I go for on the Red channel are my 80s tones like Randy Rhoads, George Lynch, Warren Dimartini, etc which were on the bright side without a lot of bass (in fact almost none if you listen to the isolated tracks).


----------



## BanditPanda

Yup me too. Bass almost at noon and Res off.
Treb on 4 and Pres on 2
Always on Green & Clean with Gain on 10


----------



## Angus Rhoads

BanditPanda said:


> Yup me too. Bass almost at noon and Res off.
> Treb on 4 and Pres on 2
> Always on Green & Clean with Gain on 10


Ironically, though, if I want a good Van Halen I sound I go Lead 1, Gain 6.5 - 7, Volume 3+, Treb at noon, Mid & Bass both full up at TEN, Pres at noon and Res off - with a Vintage 30 you wouldn't believe how good a Brown Sound those settings give me. For some reason when both the Mid and Bass are maxed it's almost like everything below the Treble range just evens out perfectly, but only if you've got some decent volume going (i.e. not at bedroom volume). Totally sounds like Jamie's Cryin'!


----------



## ken361

Angus Rhoads said:


> Ken, I have an EP Booster but I don't like it with the DSL, like you said I think it makes it too boomy but do find the DSL to be kinda bass-heavy anyway. I use it with my JVM and JMD with better results. My favorite pedal for boosting the 40C (esp the Green channel) is the Maxon VOP9 set with drive on 0. It's a Tubescreamer variant so it tightens the bottom end a little, which I think is helpful with the DSL.


even set at 10 o clock? you have any other pedals running up front with it? looking add some gain,sustain and sweetness lol


----------



## Angus Rhoads

ken361 said:


> even set at 10 o clock? you have any other pedals running up front with it? looking add some gain,sustain and sweetness lol


The Maxon? Yeah, sometimes I use it with everything at noon thru the Green Crunch, Gain at 5 or 6 - thick, punchy and warm, lots of muscle but still has that note clarity so you can tell a major chord from a minor chord, etc. reminds me of Zep Good Times Bad Times.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

Realized you might have meant the EP Booster at 10 o'clock - yeah, even at that level it's just the pedal's core tone that's pretty bassy.


----------



## ken361

Angus Rhoads said:


> Realized you might have meant the EP Booster at 10 o'clock - yeah, even at that level it's just the pedal's core tone that's pretty bassy.


ok thanks


----------



## jbailes

Has anyone tried the celestion G12 K100 speaker with this amp. I hear that's a speaker with thunderous lows


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Deleted...


----------



## solarburn

How greasy can you get? For fun...

Green clean channel boosted by the Green Monkey pedal and some delay in loop. Got sum funky chit at the end...


----------



## solarburn

Can you not hear the joy in my fingers? 

My OR15.


----------



## ken361

whats the orange running into? 412?


----------



## ken361

This dudes Orange sounds great with SP Compressor


----------



## solarburn

ken361 said:


> whats the orange running into? 412?



5153 412 G12M's.


----------



## texhex

jbailes said:


> Has anyone tried the celestion G12 K100 speaker with this amp. I hear that's a speaker with thunderous lows



I have a DSL100h going into 4x12 of K100s and they sound fantastic. Not overly bass heavy at all as you might expect given the specs on the speakers. I also have the Marshall MX412a and it is WAY more bass heavy than the K100 based cab. The speakers in the MX412a have very small magnets yet produce a TON of bass at low volumes but really crap out at higher volumes (past 6). The K100 speakers have a sound that is very natural, like you are hearing the true sound of the amp without the speaker breakup changing the dynamics. I have also played my 100h through a G12T-75 loaded 1960a cab and I prefer the 100K sound.


----------



## ATLBSKY

Glad I found this forum, it looks like a great reference source. I thought I would post my "situation" and see if any of you have run into something similar. I bought my DSL40C used about three months ago. Fantastic little amp that I fell completely in love with. It had the original Marshall tubes for all pre and power amp tubes, and appears to have been first sold in 2012. That being the case, I wasn't too upset when my V1 tube went out on me, and my local shop gave me a Groove Tube replacement. Things continued along just fine until about three more weeks went by, and that's when one of my power tubes failed. Figuring that this didn't sound like an issue with the amp itself, and more likely just a matter of needing to replace all the tubes, which I did. Bought three more preamp tubes (Bugara 12AX7) and a matched set of JJ E34L's. Thinking I should be back up and running, to my horror, the amp now sounds like garbage!! Feels like it's on half power, and there is no true "clean" sound anymore. I bought three additional 12AX7's, this time to match the Groove Tube in the V1 slot, and incredibly, the amp sounds worse.

I'm sure that some of this comes down to needing the tubes biased, but seriously, should needing biasing make this much of a difference? Or do I need to spend more money on better tubes first, then get it biased? I'm sick about the sound of my amp, because just two weeks ago it was easily the best sounding amp I've ever owned. Gigging with my Fender Mustang III as a back up is going to suck!

Would love to hear some feedback from long time owners before I drop this in a repair shop


----------



## Micky

Maybe you would have been better off with EL34's...


----------



## ATLBSKY

Typo - They are EL34's.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

ATLBSKY said:


> Glad I found this forum, it looks like a great reference source. I thought I would post my "situation" and see if any of you have run into something similar. I bought my DSL40C used about three months ago. Fantastic little amp that I fell completely in love with. It had the original Marshall tubes for all pre and power amp tubes, and appears to have been first sold in 2012. That being the case, I wasn't too upset when my V1 tube went out on me, and my local shop gave me a Groove Tube replacement. Things continued along just fine until about three more weeks went by, and that's when one of my power tubes failed. Figuring that this didn't sound like an issue with the amp itself, and more likely just a matter of needing to replace all the tubes, which I did. Bought three more preamp tubes (Bugara 12AX7) and a matched set of JJ E34L's. Thinking I should be back up and running, to my horror, the amp now sounds like garbage!! Feels like it's on half power, and there is no true "clean" sound anymore. I bought three additional 12AX7's, this time to match the Groove Tube in the V1 slot, and incredibly, the amp sounds worse.
> 
> I'm sure that some of this comes down to needing the tubes biased, but seriously, should needing biasing make this much of a difference? Or do I need to spend more money on better tubes first, then get it biased? I'm sick about the sound of my amp, because just two weeks ago it was easily the best sounding amp I've ever owned. Gigging with my Fender Mustang III as a back up is going to suck!
> 
> Would love to hear some feedback from long time owners before I drop this in a repair shop



Definitely check the bias on the new power tubes and since you had a power tube fail you could have a bad screen resistor and could be only running on one power tube, if thats the case your amp will sound as you mentioned.


----------



## ken361

bugara tubes fail a lot too I used to own one, get JJ preamp tubes and check the bias. I droped power tubes in just to see if I got rid of a hum without a bias and it sounded as good but a little high so I got it biased a week later.


----------



## whitecloud

solarburnDSL50 said:


> How greasy can you get? For fun...
> 
> Green clean channel boosted by the Green Monkey pedal and some delay in loop. Got sum funky chit at the end...



One of your better clips Sir


----------



## whitecloud

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Can you not hear the joy in my fingers?
> 
> My OR15.



Your OR15 sounds way different than my Dark Terror, at least in this clip. Did you cut some of the low mids?


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Pulled the trigger on an extension cab and got one of these for $149 with free shipping, the dimensions are about perfect to match the DSL40. Rather than stick speakers in my closet I might as well stuff them in cabs  this should be fine for the 1 or 2 outdoor gigs I do.

*Details:*
https://www.seismicaudiospeakers.co...vintage-empty-guitar-cabinet-1x12-black-black


----------



## BanditPanda

J.LaGrassa said:


> Pulled the trigger on an extension cab and got one of these for $149 with free shipping, the dimensions are about perfect to match the DSL40. Rather than stick speakers in my closet I might as well stuff them in cabs  this should be fine for the 1 or 2 outdoor gigs I do.
> 
> *Details:*
> https://www.seismicaudiospeakers.co...vintage-empty-guitar-cabinet-1x12-black-black


Good looking and the price is really good !!!
Have to look into them.
BP


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Thanks, I should have it on Saturday... looking forward to using it. Going to put my Celestion V-Type in it and keep the Creamback 65 in the DSL.


----------



## BanditPanda

J.LaGrassa said:


> Thanks, I should have it on Saturday... looking forward to using it. Going to put my Celestion V-Type in it and keep the Creamback 65 in the DSL.


Cool.! Let us know your thoughts about the cab build and how the V type sounds in it.


----------



## ken361

J.LaGrassa said:


> Thanks, I should have it on Saturday... looking forward to using it. Going to put my Celestion V-Type in it and keep the Creamback 65 in the DSL.


Just put a Marshall logo on it


----------



## J.LaGrassa

ken361 said:


> Just put a Marshall logo on it


I already thought about that


----------



## solarburn

whitecloud said:


> Your OR15 sounds way different than my Dark Terror, at least in this clip. Did you cut some of the low mids?



I tubed the OR to get as Marshall as it could. Meaning preamp tubes that add high mids. Also the TAD 84's added to that goal. Using GB speakers and Dimarzio SD'S overall pushed it closer to Marshall territory.

I can still hear Orange's low mid in there. It's gonna sound diff then your Dark Terror anyways. It's Orange's Marshall to my ears.


----------



## aussiebluesville

has anyone tried the peavey valveking 112 16 ohm speaker in the dsl40
would it be better than stock 70/80?


----------



## Micky

aussiebluesville said:


> has anyone tried the peavey valveking 112 16 ohm speaker in the dsl40
> would it be better than stock 70/80?


Almost anything is better than the stock speaker in an open-back cab such as the DSL40c...


----------



## solarburn

So did anyone light up the Green Clean channel with their fav OD pedal? Put amp gain at 10 and volume wherever although mine is at 4.

Yeah yeah yeah the crunch channels better. Is it? Or does it share some killer Marshall tone with the clean meaned up?

So many tones in this amp.


----------



## whitecloud

solarburnDSL50 said:


> So did anyone light up the Green Clean channel with their fav OD pedal? Put amp gain at 10 and volume wherever although mine is at 4.
> 
> Yeah yeah yeah the crunch channels better. Is it? Or does it share some killer Marshall tone with the clean meaned up?
> 
> So many tones in this amp.


I've been close to that with my Bogner La Grange on the Green clean, then factor in the LG's separate clean boost. Really seems to have quite a bottom, deeper fuller than the Red.


----------



## Micky

solarburnDSL50 said:


> So did anyone light up the Green Clean channel with their fav OD pedal? Put amp gain at 10 and volume wherever although mine is at 4.
> 
> Yeah yeah yeah the crunch channels better. Is it? Or does it share some killer Marshall tone with the clean meaned up?
> 
> So many tones in this amp.


I only do this when I need extreme low volume.
Otherwise Classic Crunch rules!


----------



## ken361

I cant believe how good my cheap Epiphone sounds through my amp ET 65 speaker lower bias little echo tad of reverb. I maxed the mids really cuts good while still warm sounding.Dunlop Ultex .73 pick is the ticket also keeps it from being too bright. Stones Gimme Shelter tones on the crunch sounds very good cranked.


----------



## aussiebluesville

NAD..... Got a dsl 40c the other day...have to say its awesome, asked about the speaker in the peavey valveking 112 combo its the green one as a replacement to the 70/80 as i have a spare laying around...was also eyeing the celestion v or my other choice is a v30
Leaning towards the v30 as its only $30 more than a new v series...whats your verdict on speaker i had the v30 in a 401combo and it was great.


----------



## solarburn

aussiebluesville said:


> NAD..... Got a dsl 40c the other day...have to say its awesome, asked about the speaker in the peavey valveking 112 combo its the green one as a replacement to the 70/80 as i have a spare laying around...was also eyeing the celestion v or my other choice is a v30
> Leaning towards the v30 as its only $30 more than a new v series...whats your verdict on speaker i had the v30 in a 401combo and it was great.



There are going to be so many differing answers and its a legit question. Mine still has the 70/80 in it and it rips.

I gravitate towards Greenback speakers with my Marshall's. However I want to put a Heritage 65 in mine based on where I play mostly. I'm not a high gain modern player.

What vein of music do you mostly play? This will help...


----------



## aussiebluesville

solarburnDSL50 said:


> There are going to be so many differing answers and its a legit question. Mine still has the 70/80 in it and it rips.
> 
> I gravitate towards Greenback speakers with my Marshall's. However I want to put a Heritage 65 in mine based on where I play mostly. I'm not a high gain modern player.
> 
> What vein of music do you mostly play? This will help...


Mainly classic rock, blues


----------



## Angus Rhoads

aussiebluesville said:


> Mainly classic rock, blues


I like the Vintage 30 best in my 40C, but I play a lot of 80s metal/hard rock on Lead 1 Red. If you're more into 70s rock tones and blues you might prefer the G12-65 Heritage (another of my favorites). Similar thick mids and crunchy bass to the V30 but not as extreme, sounds better on the Clean and Crunch Green. Doesn't have that bright upper spike of the V30.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

solarburnDSL50 said:


> There are going to be so many differing answers and its a legit question. Mine still has the 70/80 in it and it rips.
> 
> I gravitate towards Greenback speakers with my Marshall's. However I want to put a Heritage 65 in mine based on where I play mostly. I'm not a high gain modern player.
> 
> What vein of music do you mostly play? This will help...


Solar, it's funny I actually like my Heritage (I have a Marshall-labeled version) in my JVM combo because it handles the OD channel gain really well! But, it does also sound best with the Crunch modes than other speakers. Don't really hear much GB tone in it, though.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Got my extension cab from Seismic Audio today and for $149 it's not bad at all it feels very solid and sounds pretty good, I put my V-Type in it and using a Creamback 65 in amp. I didnt get a whole lot of time to light it up but it feels good to be pumping some air out of 2x12s.


----------



## solarburn

Angus Rhoads said:


> Solar, it's funny I actually like my Heritage (I have a Marshall-labeled version) in my JVM combo because it handles the OD channel gain really well! But, it does also sound best with the Crunch modes than other speakers. Don't really hear much GB tone in it, though.



Thanks for your input. I don't want it to sound like my GB's. I want the speakers mid emphasis to add its own voicing to it. 

So I actually wanted a change. Thanks again bud. Appreciate the real world application and advice.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Thanks for your input. I don't want it to sound like my GB's. I want the speakers mid emphasis to add its own voicing to it.
> 
> So I actually wanted a change. Thanks again bud. Appreciate the real world application and advice.


Yeah man, anytime. I think you'd like that speaker in the DSL, has a laid back top end that tames some of brightness but has that fat midrange that really cuts through - the DSL is not as not as bold in the mids like other Marshalls so it adds just the right amount. And the bass stays tight, doesn't get raggedy like a GB can. Definitely gets those Angus lead tones...


----------



## solarburn

Angus Rhoads said:


> Yeah man, anytime. I think you'd like that speaker in the DSL, has a laid back top end that tames some of brightness but has that fat midrange that really cuts through - the DSL is not as not as bold in the mids like other Marshalls so it adds just the right amount. And the bass stays tight, doesn't get raggedy like a GB can. Definitely gets those Angus lead tones...




Yeah man. I'm salivating all over your post. Dammit!


----------



## aussiebluesville

Had the dsl 40c biased today, its 2 year old and the bias was 35 on one side and 44 on the other from factory... anyway got it on 36 and sounds pretty good, ordered the celestion v30 also, keen to try and if i dont like it i will put into a 1x12 cab, amp sounds big going thru a 2x12 jensen 70 speakers
and playing a epiphone ES339


----------



## BanditPanda

Angus Rhoads said:


> Yeah man, anytime. I think you'd like that speaker in the DSL, has a laid back top end that tames some of brightness but has that fat midrange that really cuts through - the DSL is not as not as bold in the mids like other Marshalls so it adds just the right amount. And the bass stays tight, doesn't get raggedy like a GB can. Definitely gets those Angus lead tones...



This sounds very inviting ! Although I would still like to experience a Marshall GB rush you are definitely making the G12-65 Heritage a worthy option particularly because I am a Green Channel player.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

If I weren't so completely incapable of recording and uploading in electronic format, I'd load the Heritage back into the DSL and make some clips for you guys - maybe I can ask my 10-yr old how to do it, LOL. Mind you, mine is a Marshall-labeled version and it's pretty well broken-in, so a brand-new one won't sound the same out of the box but once you put some miles on it should get that nice thick & creamy tone. Best way I can describe the tone on the Crunch Green would be that it reminds me a lot of the AC/DC sound on Highway to Hell, especially Walk All Over You, Shot Down in Flames, etc. With Lead 1, moderate gain, I could easily get a Kansas/Carry On Wayward Son tone. Oh, another cool thing is that it's kind of inefficient, so you can actually run the Master a little higher than with a V30 or other high-sensitivity speaker, lets you get the power tubes cooking a bit more.

Dang, I'm starting to sound like a Heritage infomercial - I'll stop now... LOL


----------



## ken361

I use a M Audio interface used on craigs list for 25.00 then a mic plugged into the inteface. Record on AudiaCity for sound samples.Video I now use my web then a mic on the cab and just configure the speakers in the audio section, it took me awhile to figure it out but i got finally.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

ken361 said:


> I use a M Audio interface used on craigs list for 25.00 then a mic plugged into the inteface. Record on AudiaCity for sound samples.Video I now use my web then a mic on the cab and just configure the speakers in the audio section, it took me awhile to figure it out but i got finally.


Ken, man, I'm the guy whose VCR always used to flash "12:00" - baby steps, I need baby steps... lol

So the M Audio thingamabob - you hook that up to your computer? Does it have a like a USB port or something?


----------



## ken361

yeah just one cable going into the USB and the mic plugged in the back


----------



## ken361

The mic plugs in are in the back saying channel 1 or channel 2


----------



## ken361

ken361 said:


> My mic plug ins are in the back saying channel 1 or channel 2


----------



## Angus Rhoads

ken361 said:


>


Cool, I'll have to check this out! My daughter's making toy review YouTube videos and she asked me if I could add some background music for her.


----------



## Bownse

Less fancy than that to match my less fancy playing.

I got a Yeti Blue. Plugs straight into the USB of the computer and use whatever app you want. With me it's usually Garage Band and light editing using Audacity.

If I were to do it over again, I'd get the Yeti Blue Pro because it has a higher sampling rate.

http://www.bluemic.com/products/yeti/


----------



## ken361

Bownse said:


> Less fancy than that to match my less fancy playing.
> 
> I got a Yeti Blue. Plugs straight into the USB of the computer and use whatever app you want. With me it's usually Garage Band and light editing using Audacity.
> 
> If I were to do it over again, I'd get the Yeti Blue Pro because it has a higher sampling rate.
> 
> http://www.bluemic.com/products/yeti/


nice mic! I always wonder how good they were. Garage band is cool from what I seen


----------



## J.LaGrassa

For quick clips or for recording a band practice or gig I use the Tascam DR-05 and use Audacity for some quick edits into the computer but I use it mostly for a quick audio clip, I also have a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 2nd Gen that works great as an interface for the computer!


----------



## Angus Rhoads

Anyone tried the Shure SM57-x2u? After Ken's post earlier today I started looking around and that one caught my eye.


----------



## BanditPanda

recording & it's gear is a huge subject and will take up thousands of posts.
I come here for The Official Marshall DSL40c Information Thread
BP


----------



## KingsXJJ

MarshallDog said:


> I finally did it...I'll call it the *DSL40C Pre-Amp B+ Mod.
> *
> I removed R83 and replaced it with a 2W 10K resistor and all I can say is WOW! I played it last night for about 1.5 hours with and without OD pedals and at high and low volumes and it sounds fantastic IMO. It is a very subtle change and about the only way I can describe it is that it did not affect the gain at all, it did not take away any cut to the tone it just seemed to soften the edges of the notes making then sound not so sharp. To me it sounds a bit more like an old JMP. I wish I would have done this long ago and am glad I finally got off my ass and did it. I put the resistor on studs so I can change it easily if I want thinking I may want to try an 18K resistor BUT I think that might be way to much and for now I am really happy with it and cant see me putting it back to the 4.7K resistor for any reason.
> 
> Here are the voltages I measured on pins 1 and 6 to chassis before and after the mod:
> 
> *STOCK: 10K R83:*
> V1a=220 V1a=201
> V1b=213 V1b=194
> 
> V2a=242 V2a=222
> V2b=221 V2b=203
> 
> V3a=189 V3a=172
> V3b=368 V3b=340
> 
> V4a=233 V4a=213
> V4b=237 V4b=218
> 
> It really makes the Ultra Channel sound good. Now keep in mind these are my other mods:
> 
> Choke added. C4 gone, C19 gone, Celestion G12M-65 Creamback upgrade, several tone path capacitor up grades (same value caps just better quality), tube shields and I am running the JJ ECC803S (long plate) in V1 and V4 for a richer tone and a JAN-GE 5751 in V2 and V3 to reduce the gain especially on the Ultra channel.
> 
> With this set up, I run the crunch channel in clean mode gain on 9 and I can then set Ultra 1 to my crunch channel with the gain on 4 getting me that nice AC/DC classic rock tone and even a nice blues tone with the guitar volume turned down a bit. I just like to have a dedicated clean and dirty channel. If I want more gain, I can simply crank the gain on Ultra 1 or turn on one of my OD pedals.
> 
> My EQ settings are:
> T=3.5
> M=6
> B=5
> P=4
> R=5


I think I need your perspective. New owner here. I've got the Sweetwater CST. LOVE IT. No issues with fizz pretty much like what I hear on Ultra OD2 with gain around 4-5 with moderate EQ. I'd like the Classic channel on Crunch to sound like a nice tight JCM800 overdrive sound. Enough gain for nice classic rock close to AC/DC. Stock, the gain is almost there... could use a bit more but the fundamental issue for me is that it's too bassy and a little loose. I'd like to Crunch it up a bit more (without pedals... those are for lead) and tighten up the low end. I think it will translate well over to Ultra if done right (I hear similar things there too except for needing more gain). I think it's all doable with preamp tube rolling. This isn't the answer but this sort of thinking intrigued me:
https://www.tubedepot.com/products/jj-ecc823-preamp-vacuum-tube

And Micky, I'm on page 229. Been reading for about a week. Just got my amp in. Cut me a little slack.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

BanditPanda said:


> recording & it's gear is a huge subject and will take up thousands of posts.
> I come here for The Official Marshall DSL40c Information Thread
> BP


----------



## KingsXJJ

KingsXJJ said:


> I think I need your perspective. New owner here. I've got the Sweetwater CST. LOVE IT. No issues with fizz pretty much like what I hear on Ultra OD2 with gain around 4-5 with moderate EQ. I'd like the Classic channel on Crunch to sound like a nice tight JCM800 overdrive sound. Enough gain for nice classic rock close to AC/DC. Stock, the gain is almost there... could use a bit more but the fundamental issue for me is that it's too bassy and a little loose. I'd like to Crunch it up a bit more (without pedals... those are for lead) and tighten up the low end. I think it will translate well over to Ultra if done right (I hear similar things there too except for needing more gain). I think it's all doable with preamp tube rolling. This isn't the answer but this sort of thinking intrigued me:
> https://www.tubedepot.com/products/jj-ecc823-preamp-vacuum-tube
> 
> And Micky, I'm on page 229. Been reading for about a week. Just got my amp in. Cut me a little slack.


Veterans forgive me but I'm trying my best. Considering what I've stated as my goal... classic crunch dimed equaling AC/DC... if the ECC823 maintains full gain in to V1a thereby punching classic and Ultra normally there. It then backs off a bit on V1b easing things on the Ultra side (no problem plenty of gain there) and I then use a Tung Sol in V2 to punch things up a bit for both again. Classic Crunch up a bit toward the goal and Ultra down a bit mitigated by an increase on the gain knob. Making sense?
I want AC/DC on classic and Modern gain on Ultra. I'll roll GTR volume as needed for clean and hit a boost pedal for lead. Help a brother out with your wisdom please.


----------



## BanditPanda

JJ...Most all here are or have been tube rolling for quite some time and speaker swapping along with that. That being said I don't know for a fact that there is a tube "expert " here that will precisely define what any / every tube will do with the DSL40C.
All I will suggest is to run with your ideas and see how they pan out.
Taking the advice of your tube provider pro is a good idea too.
Also as you probably know a speaker is said to determine up to 25% of your tone so there's that to consider.
Sorry I couldn't be of any help. Be patient, experiment, have fun.
BP


----------



## ken361

KingsXJJ said:


> Veterans forgive me but I'm trying my best. Considering what I've stated as my goal... classic crunch dimed equaling AC/DC... if the ECC823 maintains full gain in to V1a thereby punching classic and Ultra normally there. It then backs off a bit on V1b easing things on the Ultra side (no problem plenty of gain there) and I then use a Tung Sol in V2 to punch things up a bit for both again. Classic Crunch up a bit toward the goal and Ultra down a bit mitigated by an increase on the gain knob. Making sense?
> I want AC/DC on classic and Modern gain on Ultra. I'll roll GTR volume as needed for clean and hit a boost pedal for lead. Help a brother out with your wisdom please.


Crunch boosted does a pretty good Highway To hell tones But my red channel does it pretty good too I think. Dimed is too thick on my amp so at 5 to 7 is good. I used all kinds of NOS tubes and new production but I been digging the stock preamp tubes JJ and im using Tungsol power tubes biased at 30 to 32 Is smooth and clear at high volumes with a little sag feel to it and a WGS ET65 speaker.


----------



## ken361

Tung in the v2 may brighten it up a bit


----------



## KingsXJJ

ken361 said:


> Tung in the v2 may brighten it up a bit


Thanks Ken... that's my thought too. My hope was to boost the gain in V1a and then brighten and lose some low end in V2. As you've gathered I'm looking for a bright tight nicely crunched tone on the Green channel. To do it without castrating the red channel I'm looking at the uneven tube I posted above for V1. While I know it will reduce gain on V1b I don't know yet if it will offer a boost over stock on V1a. I hope the Tung Sol in V2 would complete the equation.


----------



## KingsXJJ

BanditPanda said:


> JJ...Most all here are or have been tube rolling for quite some time and speaker swapping along with that. That being said I don't know for a fact that there is a tube "expert " here that will precisely define what any / every tube will do with the DSL40C.
> All I will suggest is to run with your ideas and see how they pan out.
> Taking the advice of your tube provider pro is a good idea too.
> Also as you probably know a speaker is said to determine up to 25% of your tone so there's that to consider.
> Sorry I couldn't be of any help. Be patient, experiment, have fun.
> BP


Thanks BP. I appreciate the sentiment. I'm not asking for tube recommendations for best tone though. I have a good idea of what my approach is I'm just trying to find tubes that might match those operating characteristics. Kind of like if I said I wanted a dark tube and someone recommended JJ's.


----------



## ken361

KingsXJJ said:


> Thanks Ken... that's my thought too. My hope was to boost the gain in V1a and then brighten and lose some low end in V2. As you've gathered I'm looking for a bright tight nicely crunched tone on the Green channel. To do it without castrating the red channel I'm looking at the uneven tube I posted above for V1. While I know it will reduce gain on V1b I don't know yet if it will offer a boost over stock on V1a. I hope the Tung Sol in V2 would complete the equation.


try boosting?


----------



## KingsXJJ

ken361 said:


> try boosting?


I'm trying to avoid that so that I can use the boost for leads. Call me a dreamer but I am shooting for AC/DC crunch on green and brown/modern on red for rhythm work using a boost for lead on both. I do appreciate the suggestions and help though!


----------



## ken361

volume pedal for leads? I like the same tones also


----------



## Angus Rhoads

KingsXJJ said:


> I'm trying to avoid that so that I can use the boost for leads. Call me a dreamer but I am shooting for AC/DC crunch on green and brown/modern on red for rhythm work using a boost for lead on both. I do appreciate the suggestions and help though!


Just a couple of thoughts:

A speaker change makes a thousand times more difference than preamp tube changes, which are subtle. Even if you're generally happy with the Creamback there may be other choices that, either through their inherent tone or by being less efficient, will give you a more "pushed" sound on Crunch than the CB. I've rolled a few different tubes through my DSL and honestly the difference is not night & day, more like dawn & dusk (OK, I stole that line from a friend...).
What about using an OD for more gain on Crunch and then use a clean (or almost clean) boost into the OD pedal for leads? I've done this plenty of times with great results. Heck, I've even stacked two OD pedals together before - once I used an SD-1 to drive my mid-gain Peavey amp a little harder, and for leads I'd hit a Tubescreamer set up for a boost (Drive at zero) into the SD-1. If you run the Gain low on the Lead channel you'd still be able to keep an OD running all the time. Sometimes I roll the Lead 1 gain down to about 3 and goose it with my Maxon VOP9, sounds great.


----------



## AlanH

Angus Rhoads said:


> Just a couple of thoughts:
> 
> A speaker change makes a thousand times more difference than preamp tube changes, which are subtle. Even if you're generally happy with the Creamback there may be other choices that, either through their inherent tone or by being less efficient, will give you a more "pushed" sound on Crunch than the CB. I've rolled a few different tubes through my DSL and honestly the difference is not night & day, more like dawn & dusk (OK, I stole that line from a friend...).
> What about using an OD for more gain on Crunch and then use a clean (or almost clean) boost into the OD pedal for leads? I've done this plenty of times with great results. Heck, I've even stacked two OD pedals together before - once I used an SD-1 to drive my mid-gain Peavey amp a little harder, and for leads I'd hit a Tubescreamer set up for a boost (Drive at zero) into the SD-1. If you run the Gain low on the Lead channel you'd still be able to keep an OD running all the time. Sometimes I roll the Lead 1 gain down to about 3 and goose it with my Maxon VOP9, sounds great.



The OD pedal would also provide something akin to an extra clean channel that is switchable from the foot for cleaner tones on each of green or red. I think this is the solution I'm looking for to enable me to switch between '70s rock songs and '80s metal songs with green and red channels respectively Then it's a case of adding the rhythm gain on to the cleaner/just breaking platform to suit using a tweak-able OD pedal and then stepping on an EQ or boost pedal for leads.


----------



## BanditPanda

KingsXJJ said:


> Thanks BP. I appreciate the sentiment. I'm not asking for tube recommendations for best tone though. I have a good idea of what my approach is I'm just trying to find tubes that might match those operating characteristics. Kind of like if I said I wanted a dark tube and someone recommended JJ's.



Well it looks like Marshalldog was the man with a lot of ideas. If he hasn't jumped in already why not PM him?


----------



## KingsXJJ

I decided to return the amp. If it's not close to my sound out of the box, needs mods, multiple speaker swaps and even then nothing is guaranteed... I'm out. Always wanted a Marshall but looks like I'll go Blackstar. It has a fundamental tone I like... the small tweaks will come easier. Thanks for the help fellas.


----------



## KingsXJJ

KingsXJJ said:


> I decided to return the amp. If it's not close to my sound out of the box, needs mods, multiple speaker swaps and even then nothing is guaranteed... I'm out. Always wanted a Marshall but looks like I'll go Blackstar. It has a fundamental tone I like... the small tweaks will come easier. Thanks for the help fellas.


I can't believe I spent a week reading this thread hoping that the DSL40C I tried back in 2012 and didn't care for had evolved. I simply can't understand why Marshall can't deliver an affordable amp with an easy selection of their signature tones. Put four killer voices on an amp and call it a day.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

Well, guess that'll be his last post here then...


----------



## KingsXJJ

Angus Rhoads said:


> Well, guess that'll be his last post here then...


Actually, this one will be. Until Marshall offers a new product that delivers what I'm looking for... their signature tones in an affordable consistent platform, I'll wait. You guys subsidize the transition. See you on the other side.


----------



## Bownse

Angus Rhoads said:


>




I actually saw him during that tour the week before I got married. It wasn't until I read his autobiography that I learned it was his last.


----------



## ken361

you even check the bias?


----------



## Angus Rhoads

Bownse said:


> I actually saw him during that tour the week before I got married. It wasn't until I read his autobiography that I learned it was his last.


I used to love his Festrunk Brothers skit with Dan Akroyd on SNL too. And the guy's a killer banjo player! (Does that sound dorky?)


----------



## KingsXJJ

ken361 said:


> you even check the bias?


Great question. Might even have been the answer.

Why should I have to remove the chassis, buy a multimeter and learn how to check the bias on a new amp from Marshall? Answer that and I think you are beginning to admit what's wrong. At this price point the amp really needs to be plug and play. I don't see this sort of maintenance needed from other manufacturers. Hear this: I wanted nothing more than an awesome 40 watt combo from Marshall. Didn't happen.


----------



## AlanH

KingsXJJ said:


> Great question. Might even have been the answer.
> 
> Why should I have to remove the chassis, buy a multimeter and learn how to check the bias on a new amp from Marshall? Answer that and I think you are beginning to admit what's wrong. At this price point the amp really needs to be plug and play. I don't see this sort of maintenance needed from other manufacturers. Hear this: I wanted nothing more than an awesome 40 watt combo from Marshall. Didn't happen.



Isn't bias adjustment a bit like action, neck relief and nut height on a guitar? There's no one factory setting that suits all players....


----------



## ken361

KingsXJJ said:


> Great question. Might even have been the answer.
> 
> Why should I have to remove the chassis, buy a multimeter and learn how to check the bias on a new amp from Marshall? Answer that and I think you are beginning to admit what's wrong. At this price point the amp really needs to be plug and play. I don't see this sort of maintenance needed from other manufacturers. Hear this: I wanted nothing more than an awesome 40 watt combo from Marshall. Didn't happen.


its been all over the map some are good and some are not as in 41/45 wayyy too hot and wont sound good. Bias is like idle on a car set it proper so it runs smooth and sounds best. 98% love the amp and 2% dont LOL


----------



## Bownse

KingsXJJ said:


> Great question. Might even have been the answer.
> 
> Why should I have to remove the chassis, buy a multimeter and learn how to check the bias on a new amp from Marshall? Answer that and I think you are beginning to admit what's wrong. At this price point the amp really needs to be plug and play. I don't see this sort of maintenance needed from other manufacturers. Hear this: I wanted nothing more than an awesome 40 watt combo from Marshall. Didn't happen.




Because analog amps can drift during shipping between continents?


----------



## BanditPanda

Bownse said:


> Because analog amps can drift during shipping between continents?



Continental Drift?


----------



## BanditPanda

I wonder if you went to the BlackStar forum there would be users swapping tubes & speakers ? lol


----------



## Micky

KingsXJJ said:


> Great question. Might even have been the answer.
> 
> Why should I have to remove the chassis, buy a multimeter and learn how to check the bias on a new amp from Marshall? Answer that and I think you are beginning to admit what's wrong.


Because it is basic amp maintenance. These aren't disposable things you know...


----------



## Micky

BanditPanda said:


> I wonder if you went to the BlackStar forum there would be users swapping tubes & speakers ? lol


You can't get a Blackstar schematic...


----------



## BanditPanda

Micky said:


> You can't get a Blackstar schematic...



Oh? Seems odd somehow. Is that to protect their circuitry et all ?


----------



## Micky

BanditPanda said:


> Oh? Seems odd somehow. Is that to protect their circuitry et all ?


It protects the magic stuff inside from being modified.
Besides, BlackStar users...


----------



## ken361

That guy was way too picky or his amp had issues, theres no perfect amp lol


----------



## Micky

ken361 said:


> That guy was way too picky or his amp had issues, theres no perfect amp lol


If you can't maintain your amp, or cannot afford to maintain it, you don't really belong owning a tube amp. (unless you are a collector only)

Same thing is true for pets. If you can't afford or don't want to take an active part in your pet's life, you don't belong having one.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

Micky said:


> If you can't maintain your amp, or cannot afford to maintain it, you don't really belong owning a tube amp. (unless you are a collector only)
> 
> Same thing is true for pets. If you can't afford or don't want to take an active part in your pet's life, you don't belong having one.


I always find it funny when people insist they want that "Marshall" sound but then complain about what it takes to achieve it. It's like my neighbor who for years had wanted a certain European sports car, finally bought one and then complained endlessly about the frequency & cost of maintenance. I told him if he just wants to change the oil every 10K miles and do a tune-up once every 5-7 years then buy a Honda...


----------



## J.LaGrassa

KingsXJJ said:


> I decided to return the amp. If it's not close to my sound out of the box, needs mods, multiple speaker swaps and even then nothing is guaranteed... I'm out. Always wanted a Marshall but looks like I'll go Blackstar. It has a fundamental tone I like... the small tweaks will come easier. Thanks for the help fellas.




Good luck hearing your self with the Black star, it doesnt cut like the DSL40 but no sense keeping something your not happy with hope you find something you like!


----------



## J.LaGrassa

swapped out the Creamback 65 today and added another V-type into the ext cab. I like running the pair of V-Types so much better and with the added cab I have a really nice full low end now, while I was at it I put the stock TAD power tubes back in and a 5751 in V1 and left the other JJ ECC83S in... killer tone!


----------



## J.LaGrassa

BanditPanda said:


> I wonder if you went to the BlackStar forum there would be users swapping tubes & speakers ? lol




When I had the HT40 I was trying tubes and speakers just to get rid of the muddy tones, gee I had to pull the chassis to bias it too


----------



## Angus Rhoads

J.LaGrassa said:


> Good luck hearing your self with the Black star, it doesnt cut like the DSL40 but no sense keeping something your not happy with hope you find something you like!


You know, I think another problem is that people are chasing the Marshall sound they know from classic recordings and expect that if they get a certain Marshall amp with a certain speaker, etc. that it will sound like the record. There are so many variables that are in play with a recording - the acoustics of the studio, types of mics used & placement, the EQ and compression applied from the mixing console, the mastering EQ, etc - that it would be virtually impossible to sound like the record even if you were using the exact rig that the artist had used in the first place. I guarantee if you went back to 1978 and heard EVH playing his rig in your living room it would not sound exactly like his recorded tone on VHI. I think sometimes it's a case of unrealistic expectations.


----------



## ken361

I know! listen to you really got me isolated its thin bright ect. but in the mix it rules, dsl does a good job but i want my tone kinda thick chewy and it does it pretty well. Back in the day there wasnt a lot of options. The 68 marshall major plexi 200 watter sounds great with a master volume, doesnt sound thin or bright just right! total brown sound


----------



## Angus Rhoads

ken361 said:


> I know! listen to you really got me isolated its thin bright ect. but in the mix it rules, dsl does a good job but i want my tone kinda thick chewy and it does it pretty well. Back in the day there wasnt a lot of options. The 68 marshall major plexi 200 watter sounds great with a master volume, doesnt sound thin or bright just right! total brown sound


Yeah man, I think a lot of people would be shocked at the sound of those isolated tracks - I sure was! I was a HUGE George Lynch fan and always loved his Dokken-era tones and when I heard first heard some of the isolated tracks from Under Lock & Key a few years ago I was floored at how little bass there was, and how much more midrange than I noticed on the mixed records.


----------



## ken361

I saw and met george at a meet and greet it was awesome! plus he jammed for a hour at a warehouse music store. I had the pic on my old pc dammit!


----------



## Angus Rhoads

ken361 said:


> I saw and met george at a meet and greet it was awesome! plus he jammed for a hour at a warehouse music store


Yeah, he's a surprisingly humble guy, isn't he? Me and a buddy saw him at a little dink bar here in the Bay Area about a dozen years ago, and got to chat with him for a bit, one of the nicest guys. He was doing more clean-ish tone, soulful stuff at the time, though, which was a little disappointing for me because I wanted to hear more of his Dokken/Lynch Mob stuff. He wasn't even using one of his shredder guitars, it was like an ESP Tele or something.


----------



## Allstev

I was just wondering if anyone had tried swapping in a Celestion G12-35XC? I was reading about it and it sounds like a cool speaker.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

Allstev said:


> I was just wondering if anyone had tried swapping in a Celestion G12-35XC? I was reading about it and it sounds like a cool speaker.


Have not, but isn't that only rated for like 30 or 35 watts? You could only use it in Triode mode.


----------



## Micky

Allstev said:


> I was just wondering if anyone had tried swapping in a Celestion G12-35XC? I was reading about it and it sounds like a cool speaker.


It's only a 35W speaker, you would run the risk of blowing it.


----------



## YetiVanMarshall

Bought a pair of Tube Store preferred series when my Marshall was in for repair( they ended up replacing entire circuit board). The tech told me he would bias the tubes on an oscilliscope so I dont know if the end result is the same as the youtube video on how to do it.
All I can is that the ultra gain channel is usable on both channels. The fizz is completely gone. No ice pick sound what so ever. It's like a completely different amplifier that is beyond excellent. Cheers.


----------



## ken361

YetiVanMarshall said:


> Bought a pair of Tube Store preferred series when my Marshall was in for repair( they ended up replacing entire circuit board). The tech told me he would bias the tubes on an oscilliscope so I dont know if the end result is the same as the youtube video on how to do it.
> All I can is that the ultra gain channel is usable on both channels. The fizz is completely gone. No ice pick sound what so ever. It's like a completely different amplifier that is beyond excellent. Cheers.


I think thats what my tech said when he did mine by using the scope but he did say it was set at 30. How did the board fry? first of that we heard on these 40c amps.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

I used the new cab last night with my band and what a difference... it was a lot of fun playing the DSL, I could here my self great it just seemed to fill the room with out really cranking it the tone was bigger and fatter I dont know if I could just play the amp as a 1x12 now. Anyway it was money well spent!

Here is another angle shot of the new cab with the amp!


----------



## GibsonKramer

Heck, 2/3 of my guitars, I tested them, on a DSL40C. If I liked it on that, I typically liked them, at home on my JCM1H, JMP1H, JVM1H, or an old '80s Jubilee.

I was crushed the day they sold it. I haven't ever found a replacement for it, in the store. I bounce between amps now.

Last week, I walked in, as they were unboxing a cream DSL40C. It's coming home with me, next week. Trading in the last of the modeling amps, I will buy. Boss Katana. Cool amp... just doesn't do it for me.


----------



## BanditPanda

GibsonKramer said:


> Heck, 2/3 of my guitars, I tested them, on a DSL40C. If I liked it on that, I typically liked them, at home on my JCM1H, JMP1H, JVM1H, or an old '80s Jubilee.
> 
> I was crushed the day they sold it. I haven't ever found a replacement for it, in the store. I bounce between amps now.
> 
> Last week, I walked in, as they were unboxing a cream DSL40C. It's coming home with me, next week. Trading in the last of the modeling amps, I will buy. Boss Katana. Cool amp... just doesn't do it for me.



Congrats GK.!! Never mind best bang for the buck the DSL40C is an outstanding amp in it's own right.


----------



## BanditPanda

YetiVanMarshall said:


> Bought a pair of Tube Store preferred series when my Marshall was in for repair( they ended up replacing entire circuit board). The tech told me he would bias the tubes on an oscilliscope so I dont know if the end result is the same as the youtube video on how to do it.
> All I can is that the ultra gain channel is usable on both channels. The fizz is completely gone. No ice pick sound what so ever. It's like a completely different amplifier that is beyond excellent. Cheers.



"Beyond Excellent ". Hear hear !!


----------



## nevermind

Biased to 38.4 yesterday, it came biased at 40.2. I also had a Mesa 16 ohm C90 come to my door the same day. It was going to go in the Mesa Thiele cabinet and pair up with my OR15 but I put it in the DSL40c to try it out. Just the magnet weight alone is significant compared to the 70/80. IMHO, I've lost NONE of the driving highs I liked from the 70/80 and now have much fuller mids. The C90 will stay in the 40c for now, glad I tried it.


----------



## AlanH

Just wondering about 70/80 speaker break in on my new DSL40C. A few questions....

-How many hours and at what volume/gain setting on either channel is needed?
-How do you know when your speaker is broken in? I presume the process is rather gradual, thus making it difficult to tell...

Thanks in anticipation.


----------



## GibsonKramer

Dang... I didn't think room would ever again be an issue. I knew I should have just converted the whole damn garage. Of course, I'll feel differently once I've built the workshop... but that feels a year off.

As I said, I'm trading the Boss Katana I bought a couple months ago. Too bad I didn't make the decision earlier... could have got full value for it. But, at $150... I'm not sweating it.

What I was sweating was room. The DSL40C is just a shade under 24.5". After taking out the Katana, squeezing everything together... I only had 23" of clearance.






Took out my Auralex acoustic boards, allowing me to squeeze it in a bit more, and I've got about an 1.5" to spare!






AlanH... the 70/80 is kind of a fizzy speaker, when new. I noticed that the other night, playing the new one, compared to the old one I remembered. Last set of speakers I broke in, was a set of WGS Retro 10" speakers. I placed the cabs face down on the floor, and cranked them, loud as I could, for as long as I could. Did that several times... still seemed like they took a few months to break in. In fact, I'm not even sure they are broke in. I don't have any reference for them.

I don't know if its been mentioned in the thread, I just popped in and joined. I know Sweetwater is selling the DSL40C with an upgraded Creamback, for the same price. Which is cool, if you're a Creamback fan. I tend more towards the V30s. Plus, I'm getting a hell of a deal on the one I'm buying.


----------



## ken361

Those mini heads are cool I really wanted a JMP  or 800


----------



## BanditPanda

GibsonKramer said:


> Dang... I didn't think room would ever again be an issue. I knew I should have just converted the whole damn garage. Of course, I'll feel differently once I've built the workshop... but that feels a year off.
> 
> As I said, I'm trading the Boss Katana I bought a couple months ago. Too bad I didn't make the decision earlier... could have got full value for it. But, at $150... I'm not sweating it.
> 
> What I was sweating was room. The DSL40C is just a shade under 24.5". After taking out the Katana, squeezing everything together... I only had 23" of clearance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Took out my Auralex acoustic boards, allowing me to squeeze it in a bit more, and I've got about an 1.5" to spare!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AlanH... the 70/80 is kind of a fizzy speaker, when new. I noticed that the other night, playing the new one, compared to the old one I remembered. Last set of speakers I broke in, was a set of WGS Retro 10" speakers. I placed the cabs face down on the floor, and cranked them, loud as I could, for as long as I could. Did that several times... still seemed like they took a few months to break in. In fact, I'm not even sure they are broke in. I don't have any reference for them.
> 
> I don't know if its been mentioned in the thread, I just popped in and joined. I know Sweetwater is selling the DSL40C with an upgraded Creamback, for the same price. Which is cool, if you're a Creamback fan. I tend more towards the V30s. Plus, I'm getting a hell of a deal on the one I'm buying.



Oh GK stop showing off will ya !!
By the way what's the story behind the " flapper " grill cloth?
BP


----------



## GibsonKramer

BanditPanda said:


> Oh GK stop showing off will ya !!
> By the way what's the story behind the " flapper " grill cloth?
> BP



Man, my collection is half-pint, compared to some. 

The flapper is a Tattoo series. Incredible amp.

https://marshallamps.com/products/designstore/tattoo-series/


----------



## Angus Rhoads

GibsonKramer said:


> Dang... I didn't think room would ever again be an issue. I knew I should have just converted the whole damn garage. Of course, I'll feel differently once I've built the workshop... but that feels a year off.
> 
> As I said, I'm trading the Boss Katana I bought a couple months ago. Too bad I didn't make the decision earlier... could have got full value for it. But, at $150... I'm not sweating it.
> 
> What I was sweating was room. The DSL40C is just a shade under 24.5". After taking out the Katana, squeezing everything together... I only had 23" of clearance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Took out my Auralex acoustic boards, allowing me to squeeze it in a bit more, and I've got about an 1.5" to spare!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AlanH... the 70/80 is kind of a fizzy speaker, when new. I noticed that the other night, playing the new one, compared to the old one I remembered. Last set of speakers I broke in, was a set of WGS Retro 10" speakers. I placed the cabs face down on the floor, and cranked them, loud as I could, for as long as I could. Did that several times... still seemed like they took a few months to break in. In fact, I'm not even sure they are broke in. I don't have any reference for them.
> 
> I don't know if its been mentioned in the thread, I just popped in and joined. I know Sweetwater is selling the DSL40C with an upgraded Creamback, for the same price. Which is cool, if you're a Creamback fan. I tend more towards the V30s. Plus, I'm getting a hell of a deal on the one I'm buying.


Go with a Vintage 30 in that DSL, you won't regret it. Tranforms it from very good to fire-breathing-dragon.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

GibsonKramer said:


> Man, my collection is half-pint, compared to some.
> 
> The flapper is a Tattoo series. Incredible amp.
> 
> https://marshallamps.com/products/designstore/tattoo-series/


What speaker do they put in that Tattoo combo?


----------



## GibsonKramer

Angus Rhoads said:


> Go with a Vintage 30 in that DSL, you won't regret it. Tranforms it from very good to fire-breathing-dragon.



I'm set on V30. 1960AV is loaded with them, plus a Mesa Boogie Recto 1×12. I was actually thinking about getting another WGS speaker. Maybe that ET65 everyone raves about.

Though, I doubt I'll upgrade. If I need something more, or other than the stock speaker, I'll plug it into a cab. I'm dying to hear it through the 4×12.



Angus Rhoads said:


> What speaker do they put in that Tattoo combo?



It's a Celestion G10F-15. Same speaker they used in the Class 5, I believe. Sounds incredible, when you turn on resonance. Fills a room up.

It's an open back cab, btw.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

GibsonKramer said:


> I'm set on V30. 1960AV is loaded with them, plus a Mesa Boogie Recto 1×12. I was actually thinking about getting another WGS speaker. Maybe that ET65 everyone raves about.
> 
> Though, I doubt I'll upgrade. If I need something more, or other than the stock speaker, I'll plug it into a cab. I'm dying to hear it through the 4×12.
> 
> 
> 
> It's a Celestion G10F-15. Same speaker they used in the Class 5, I believe. Sounds incredible, when you turn on resonance. Fills a room up.
> 
> It's an open back cab, btw.


Yeah if you're going to run it through a 4x12 then you probably don't need to upgrade the internal speaker. But, if you do, it gives you quick access to yet another tone. V30 is my favorite in that combo, but I've also had the following in there at various times and all sound really good (and noticeably better than stock): Classic Lead 80, Lynchback, Marshall Heritage/G12-65, G12B-150 (from my JVM215C, actually sounds better in the DSL)


----------



## GibsonKramer

Angus Rhoads said:


> Yeah if you're going to run it through a 4x12 then you probably don't need to upgrade the internal speaker. But, if you do, it gives you quick access to yet another tone. V30 is my favorite in that combo, but I've also had the following in there at various times and all sound really good (and noticeably better than stock): Classic Lead 80, Lynchback, Marshall Heritage/G12-65, G12B-150 (from my JVM215C, actually sounds better in the DSL)



Well, if your username is any indication of your influences... we're probably on the same page. Plus, I'm a HUGE V30 fan. That's why I have 2 cabs stuffed with them. Though, the Mesa Recto 1x12 sounded like crap until it broke in. Funny, it sat in a shop gathering dust, cab getting scuffed up... speaker never broke in. Sounded very boxy and muffled, for the longest time. Once it opened up, incredible. That's why its the dedicated cab for the JCM1H and JMP1H. However, it is a laser beam of sound. Do not be standing directly in front of it, when cranked.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

GibsonKramer said:


> Well, if your username is any indication of your influences... we're probably on the same page. Plus, I'm a HUGE V30 fan. That's why I have 2 cabs stuffed with them. Though, the Mesa Recto 1x12 sounded like crap until it broke in. Funny, it sat in a shop gathering dust, cab getting scuffed up... speaker never broke in. Sounded very boxy and muffled, for the longest time. Once it opened up, incredible. That's why its the dedicated cab for the JCM1H and JMP1H. However, it is a laser beam of sound. Do not be standing directly in front of it, when cranked.


Yes, my full username is Angus Rhoads Gibbons-Lynch... LOL. 
The thing with the V30 is it sounds different in an open (or in this case semi-open) combo than it does in a closed-back cab, so it's worth giving one of your V30s a spin in the combo, you might be surprised. Like you said about your JVM Tattoo cab, the 40C with a V30 really fills a room. I had mine at my buddy's house one day, and he was playing his 5150 thru the stock Peavey 412 cab and he had to crank it pretty hard to cut through against the DSL. That upper mid-punch of the DSL/V30 was making his rig sound kind of muffled, even though the 5150 has 3 times the wattage.


----------



## ken361

J.LaGrassa said:


> I used the new cab last night with my band and what a difference... it was a lot of fun playing the DSL, I could here my self great it just seemed to fill the room with out really cranking it the tone was bigger and fatter I dont know if I could just play the amp as a 1x12 now. Anyway it was money well spent!
> 
> Here is another angle shot of the new cab with the amp!


Having that extra cab now you can have the chassis out and listen to the bias changes after adjusting. Dial it in that sweet spot better maybe? be interesting on your thoughts.


----------



## AlanH

In my tone I like punch- upper mids and treble so that I cut through, but I also want a speaker that has the ability to capture feel/articulation. I like blues rock/heavy rock, '80s British metal and old school Bay Area thrash. I play through Gibsons and Superstrats.

If I can't get on with the stock Seventy 80 after break in, what speaker would you guys recommend? I'm in the UK and the Celestion brand appeals to me. I'm thinking Vintage 30 or Greenback. I don't want too much bass/creaminess, especially with my Les Pauls...


----------



## GibsonKramer

I would not describe the Vintage 30, as "creamy."

They growl.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

ken361 said:


> Having that extra cab now you can have the chassis out and listen to the bias changes after adjusting. Dial it in that sweet spot better maybe? be interesting on your thoughts.



The new cab produces more low end than the DSL cab so the results will vary, now that I have that new cab I just leave it and my amp at my friends house its better than lugging it back and forth... I think I tweaked it enough to be satisfied just how I have it.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

AlanH said:


> In my tone I like punch- upper mids and treble so that I cut through, but I also want a speaker that has the ability to capture feel/articulation. I like blues rock/heavy rock, '80s British metal and old school Bay Area thrash. I play through Gibsons and Superstrats.
> 
> If I can't get on with the stock Seventy 80 after break in, what speaker would you guys recommend? I'm in the UK and the Celestion brand appeals to me. I'm thinking Vintage 30 or Greenback. I don't want too much bass/creaminess, especially with my Les Pauls...



Try the Celestion V-Type its kind of a V30/Greenback blend but more on the V30 side, kills the 70/80 IMO I'm using a pair of them now.


----------



## AlanH

GibsonKramer said:


> I would not describe the Vintage 30, as "creamy."
> 
> They growl.



Sorry, it's my wording. I was thinking Vintage 30 or Greenback because I'm guessing they're not "creamy", unlike a Creamback which I'm assuming might not suit me.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

AlanH said:


> In my tone I like punch- upper mids and treble so that I cut through, but I also want a speaker that has the ability to capture feel/articulation. I like blues rock/heavy rock, '80s British metal and old school Bay Area thrash. I play through Gibsons and Superstrats.
> 
> If I can't get on with the stock Seventy 80 after break in, what speaker would you guys recommend? I'm in the UK and the Celestion brand appeals to me. I'm thinking Vintage 30 or Greenback. I don't want too much bass/creaminess, especially with my Les Pauls...


Vintage 30, and better yet try to find a Marshall-labelled "Vintage" as they are brightet/tighter than the newer V30s, more like the late 80s V30s. This is what I have in mine and I like it better in the DSL than the newer Chinese-made V30 I have. The Marshall Vintage versions pop up on Ebay pretty regularly and can be had for a good price.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

AlanH said:


> Sorry, it's my wording. I was thinking Vintage 30 or Greenback because I'm guessing they're not "creamy", unlike a Creamback which I'm assuming might not suit me.


Also might want to try a Classic Lead 80, it's a very "clean" sounding speaker without the thick mids of some other Celestions, but also not "scooped" like a G12T-75.


----------



## tmingle

Angus Rhoads said:


> Also might want to try a Classic Lead 80, it's a very "clean" sounding speaker without the thick mids of some other Celestions, but also not "scooped" like a G12T-75.


I believe the Egnater Elite 80 is a Classic Lead 80 that can be had pretty cheap. I have 1 in my 40C and really like it.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

A recurring topic with this amp, even a few years down the road now, it speaker choice. A lot of folks, like myself, are not wowed by the stock Seventy 80 and have been searching for a suitable upgrade. To the extent that it may help out a fellow Forum member who's not sure what to try and doesn't want to waste time trying out a bunch of speakers, I thought I'd provide a short review of some of the Celestions I've used in my DSL40C over the last few years. When I score a deal on a speaker I usually buy it and take my time trying it out in my different amps, and sometimes I even swap them out depending on what mood I'm in. I don't mind hoarding a few speakers in my garage for a "rainy day" so I figured maybe someone else might benefit from my "research"!


Stock Seventy 80 – Not as bad as people make it out to be, but it is kind of harsh in the treble and flabby in the bass, gets better with a few hours on it but still I think holds the amp back a little. Seems to lack the overall smoothness of the more expensive Celestion models.
 

Classic Lead 80 – Similar neutral tone to the Seventy 80 but smoother treble and firmer bass, has a “hi fi” sound compared to more midrange-heavy Celestions but is not “scooped” by any means, has a warm midrange but is not prominent as with a Vintage 30, for instance. I like it a lot but usually end up wanting something with more meat in the midrange just because I feel the DSL runs a little lean in the mids (I like a mid-heavy tone, though). Does not have the flabby bass of the stock speaker but can be a little “boomy” on the bottom end if you don’t go easy on the Bass and Resonance controls. Very revealing speaker – you will definitely hear the difference between various guitars and pickups. Some might find it lacking some “character” compared to other Celestions - this one is good if you like your speaker to just give you back what you feed it and otherwise stay out of the way.


Vintage 30 – My favorite with this amp, but I know it’s not everyone’s cup of tea. The mid-spike actually works well for me because it adds some of that midrange that I feel the amp is missing on its own. I also love the tight, crunchy bass – great for palm-muted notes on the low E or A strings. On the downside, this speaker definitely has its own sound and tends to, at least to my ears, minimize the differences between various guitars and pickups – no matter what you’re running through the amp or where you’ve got your settings, there’s never any doubt you’re hearing a Vintage 30. But, there’s no substitute for that upper-mid, in-your-face punch of the V30. This is also a “fast” speaker, immediately reacts to your pick attack. If you're looking for a laid back speaker, this is not what you want!


Marshall-labeled “Heritage” (basically a G12-65) – My second favorite for this amp, pretty similar to the Vintage 30 but with a bit less midrange push and a noticeably darker top-end. Single notes, especially higher up the fretboard, have a nice thick tone to them without the harshness of the V30 (even the CL80 is much brighter on the top end). Same tight crunchy bass as the V30, maybe even a little leaner but allows you to push the Bass and Resonance a little more. I also notice that I can run the gain higher as well. Another plus is that the sensitivity is 97db, considerably lower than a V30 (100db) so you can run your master volume a little higher. I actually prefer it in my JVM combo, otherwise I might have stuck with it in the DSL instead going with the V30. This is a great speaker for taming the top end for those who find the Red channel too bright – downside is that it makes the Green side sound darker if you use lower Treble and Presence settings, which can be an issue with the shared EQ section. This one is a bit “slower” than the V30, with a bit more “give” to it and not quite as lightning-quick to react to your picking hand.


Lynchback – Also very good, like a smoother Greenback, works really well with the Green channel but I spend more time on the Red channel and for that I prefer the V30 or Heritage. The LB doesn’t have any one part of the frequency range that stands out, just an even spread of Bass-Middle-Treble. The top end is sweet-toned and “round” but still detailed. The mids are like the CL80, warm and full but not forward. Bottom end is very “woody” and percussive, but not very “crunchy” in manner of a V30 or G12-65/Heritage, needs more gain and Treble/Presence to get that 80s crunchiness on the bottom strings. If you tend to stick with 60s-70s classic rock and blues and don’t need metal-type tones, this is a good choice. Despite its association with a shredder like George Lynch, it’s surprisingly laid back. Very stiff out of the box, but loosens up with some hours on it (never loosens up to the level of a Greenback, though - GB lovers will probably still find the LB too hard).


G12B-150 - I pulled this one from my JVM combo. It's a whopping 150-watt speaker with a 2" voice coil. Top end is DARK and thick thanks to that big voice coil, and the bottom end is HUGE. It's too scooped in the mids for my taste, but if you play post-80s metal or thrash this might be your cup of tea. On paper the specs look very similar to the new Celestion Redback, but I don't know for sure if they're voiced the same or not. This one is pretty "stiff" too, even after many hours, but it's got a fast pick attack like the CL80 and V30. Not for the faint of heart!


----------



## ken361

.


----------



## BanditPanda

That is excellent Angus. Very helpful indeed.
So because I am Green/Clean player using pedals to get what I want and playing 60/70's classic rock and blues then the Lynchback is for me. Just want to mention that I have read that the DSL40C's green is a bit boomy on the bass end of things and so I imagine we would be looking to tighten up that bass response by way of speaker selection. So does the Lynchback accomplish that?


----------



## AlanH

Fantastic reviews. Thanks A.R.


----------



## KingsXJJ

Angus Rhoads said:


> I always find it funny when people insist they want that "Marshall" sound but then complain about what it takes to achieve it. It's like my neighbor who for years had wanted a certain European sports car, finally bought one and then complained endlessly about the frequency & cost of maintenance. I told him if he just wants to change the oil every 10K miles and do a tune-up once every 5-7 years then buy a Honda...


Found it! Laney Ironheart IRT Studio into various cabs. Clean,rhythm and lead with switchable adjustable boost and two EQ stacks. Interesting how good tone sounds different but still good with different speakers. If these aren't Marshall tones then I was barking up the wrong tree.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

BanditPanda said:


> That is excellent Angus. Very helpful indeed.
> So because I am Green/Clean player using pedals to get what I want and playing 60/70's classic rock and blues then the Lynchback is for me. Just want to mention that I have read that the DSL40C's green is a bit boomy on the bass end of things and so I imagine we would be looking to tighten up that bass response by way of speaker selection. So does the Lynchback accomplish that?


Lynchback or other GB variant I would say, yeah. I read somewhere that a Creamback is like a Lynchback just with "more of everything" so I think all the "back" models will get you into the same ballpark. The Lynchback is not a bass-heavy speaker at all, has a pretty small magnet in fact. Especially if you use pedals, I think you'd appreciate the fact that it doesn't color your sound too much. I do think the Green channel is on the bass-heavy side (for me) and I like the LB on that channel, maybe my favorite for the Green. The kind of song tone I think of when I think about the LB is .38 Special "Hold On Loosley", if that makes sense.


----------



## BanditPanda

ok I am officially confused and I'm sorry 'bout that. My understanding is that Greenbacks actually have a flabby bottom end. Is that understanding wrong?


----------



## KingsXJJ

BanditPanda said:


> ok I am officially confused and I'm sorry 'bout that. My understanding is that Greenbacks actually have a flabby bottom end. Is that understanding wrong?


When pushed, yes. I would recommend the 75 watt Creamback if you want vintage Greenback tone with a tight and present low end. To my ears these speakers offer great balance. I was turned on to them by a Celestion rep in my area who saw me turning speakers over on Craigslist in my search for tone. He was spot on. A very cool guy with some great stories and insights in to "speaker wars." He had a really neat story about EVH and Old man Peavey sparring about whether Peavey could match EVH's beloved weathered GB's. Apparently EVH agreed to use Peavey's version... to tour and record with them. But he kept secretly switching them out behind Heartley's back. This infuriated him.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

BanditPanda said:


> ok I am officially confused and I'm sorry 'bout that. My understanding is that Greenbacks actually have a flabby bottom end. Is that understanding wrong?


Sorry, I realize I didn't type that very well! I meant "back" speakers that are meant to be variants (or evolutions) of the original Greenback, so Lynchbacks and the two current Creambacks, etc. But yeah, GBs are kind of flabby in the bottom end with overdriven tones. The Lynchback is not flabby at all, very firm on the bottom. Creambacks too, from what I've heard but I have not tried one of those in the DSL so I can't speak to them directly.


----------



## BanditPanda

Thanks for that JJ. My point being that because the Green channel on the DSL40C is boomy we need to find a speaker that can offer a tight and focused bottom end to counter act the boominess. I presume that is the way to get around it.?


----------



## Bownse

KxJJ may have answered the question I had for Angus.

In the description of the G12-65 I understood the descrption but was currious how a G12-75 would land in the midst of these other descriptions.


----------



## KingsXJJ

BanditPanda said:


> Thanks for that JJ. My point being that because the Green channel on the DSL40C is boomy we need to find a speaker that can offer a tight and focused bottom end to counter act the boominess. I presume that is the way to get around it.?


I can't answer with complete certainty as I grew frustrated with the DSL40 with a Creamback 65 due to the very thing you mention... a boomy green channel that prevented me from dialing in a nice Crunch on that channel. I wanted two things from the DSL... an AC/DC Crunch on green and a EVH brown on red. Both sounded off to me with the 65 watt Creamback. In retrospect I wish I had opened up one of my cabs loaded with the 75 watt Creamback and loaded it in to the DSL40. I can tell you that so far, the 75 watt Creamback is my all time favorite Celestion and plays very well across all of my heads and combos. It has become my gold standard on which I judge tone and other speakers. I recently bought a couple of V-Type Celestions as an experiment in a 2x12. This speaker, to me, also sounds excellent. It is a bit brighter and crunchier on the top end but in a pleasing way and the low end is tight but not as present as in the 75 watt Creamback which might help with the DSL40's green channel low end. To me, a couple of Creamback 75's in a closed back 2x12 sound a lot like a GB 4x12 in output and sensitivity with a tighter more modern low end. The V-Types sound like a more articulate modern version of a single GB with a more controlled low end. I hope this helps. I know it's tough finding your sound.


----------



## KingsXJJ

Bownse said:


> KxJJ may have answered the question I had for Angus.
> 
> In the description of the G12-65 I understood the descrption but was currious how a G12-75 would land in the midst of these other descriptions.


To me the 65 watt Creamback sounded just like the 25 watt greenback. Higher power handling but no real improvement in the lower registers. Which is great if you need a GB and it's characteristics in a 40 watt combo. But I play higher gain tones and I think that is why there are variants like Lynch's, EVH's and the old school 1230H... and the 75 watt Creamback. They tend to offer tighter low end with varying amounts of low end punch and power handling.

Tone is a personal thing but I am not a fan of the GT12-75's at all. To me they sound harsh and overly scooped. They sound like a band-aid to dark, mid range heavy amps. I'm sorry but I can't give an objective response on them. I can not believe they were used in so many Marshall 4x12's. I remember the day I bought my first Marshall 4x12... heaven right? Wrong. I got home and couldn't believe how harsh it sounded. I took it back and the salesman smiled and pointed me toward a 4x12 loaded with V30's. A huge improvement but my tastes have evolved a bit since then.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

Bownse said:


> KxJJ may have answered the question I had for Angus.
> 
> In the description of the G12-65 I understood the descrption but was currious how a G12-75 would land in the midst of these other descriptions.


I've never tried the 75 in the DSL so I can only speculate BUT from memory of playing other amps through 75-loaded cabs I think it's closer to the CL80 but with less mids and a brighter top end. Also, just to be clear because people mix them up, I was reviewing the G12-65 Heritage, not the G12M-65 Creamback.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

BanditPanda said:


> Thanks for that JJ. My point being that because the Green channel on the DSL40C is boomy we need to find a speaker that can offer a tight and focused bottom end to counter act the boominess. I presume that is the way to get around it.?


You can minimize the bass on the Green channel with the right speaker, but IMO you won't get that tight, focused bass without some outside help like a tubescreamer.


----------



## ken361

i tried a bogner harlow through the crunch it was awesome total acdc with about the gain of the red, but hissed some when I turned the amp up at the store so im not sure if im getting it plus it was half off. Cant run the pedal pass 9 o clock on the gain channels


----------



## Angus Rhoads

This guy gets some nice tones from the Lynchback, I think this is also part of a comparison against other Greenback variants:


----------



## ken361

BanditPanda said:


> Thanks for that JJ. My point being that because the Green channel on the DSL40C is boomy we need to find a speaker that can offer a tight and focused bottom end to counter act the boominess. I presume that is the way to get around it.?


still have the ET speaker?


----------



## ken361

Angus Rhoads said:


> This guy gets some nice tones from the Lynchback, I think this is also part of a comparison against other Greenback variants:



there 120 at gc on line and on sale I been tempted


----------



## Angus Rhoads

ken361 said:


> there 120 at gc on line and on sale I been tempted


Oh wow, that's a good price plus GC has a 30 day return policy.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

Okay, HERE'S the video where they play all the 'Backs, though the riffs he plays aren't the best for comparing the bass response (plus he speaks German so I have no idea what he's saying...):


----------



## ken361

Angus Rhoads said:


> Oh wow, that's a good price plus GC has a 30 day return policy.


back at 130 today


----------



## BanditPanda

ken361 said:


> still have the ET speaker?



Yes I do Ken and thinking about getting the DSL40C head transformation done and adding another speaker to the ET65.
Price and tone wise the WGS Retro is very appealing in tandem with the 65
BP


----------



## Angus Rhoads

ken361 said:


> back at 130 today


I guess you've gotta jump on it when you see a deal. I lucked out, I got my LB on ebay for $80 with free shipping to boot, I was the only bidder. For that price, I definitely got my money's worth!


----------



## Angus Rhoads

BanditPanda said:


> Yes I do Ken and thinking about getting the DSL40C head transformation done and adding another speaker to the ET65.
> Price and tone wise the WGS Retro is very appealing in tandem with the 65
> BP


ET65 is their version of the G12-65, correct?


----------



## ken361

Angus Rhoads said:


> ET65 is their version of the G12-65, correct?


somewhat I gues,s think there close to the creamback by listening to the vids with a tad less mids


----------



## Angus Rhoads

ken361 said:


> somewhat I gues,s think there close to the creamback by listening to the vids with a tad less mids


Oh, alright. I'm just not a Creamback fan for some reason. I'm thinking about buying an unloaded Sourmash 2X12 cab and trying out some different speaker combinations. Several years back I had a TSLC212 cab but the cabinet got damaged so I pulled out the speakers (Marshall Vintage & Marshall Heritage) - kind of miss having a mix of different speakers, sounds more 3-dimensional than just one type of speaker.


----------



## Allstev

I got a good deal on a used 2x12 loaded with V30's, I've thought of mixing speakers what would you recommend to go with a V30?


----------



## Angus Rhoads

Allstev said:


> I got a good deal on a used 2x12 loaded with V30's, I've thought of mixing speakers what would you recommend to go with a V30?


I loved the combination of the Marshall Vintage and Marshall Heritage before my cab got destroyed. In that case they were two 8ohm speakers wired in series (not sure how your cab is wired). If you have an opportunity to try out a G12-65 Heritage with your V30 that would essentially be the same mix, and it's one that Marshall has stuck with in their 2x12 combos for some time now.
I've also used the internal V30 in my DSL with the Classic Lead 80 in my JMD combo as an "extension" cab and they mix really well together, but of course they weren't in the same enclosure which could affect the tone too. Actually the V30 + CL80 pairing is one I'm dying to try out in a 2x12 closed-back cab.


----------



## BanditPanda

Angus Rhoads said:


> ET65 is their version of the G12-65, correct?



Sorry Angus...no idea.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

BanditPanda said:


> Sorry Angus...no idea.


Actually it looks like it is - I found this on the WGS website from the ET65 page: "Upgrade from your Celestion™ G12-65." Plus, the magnet looks identical so the ET65 should be pretty similar to the Marshall-labeled Heritage. Their Veteran 30 (like Vintage 30) or British Lead (like Classic Lead) might make a good pairing for the ET65.


----------



## ken361

I had the british lead b4 I like the ET more in the upper range, there v30 sounds good from the demos or the greenback lower watts is nice I bet


----------



## Angus Rhoads

ken361 said:


> I had the british lead b4 I like the ET more in the upper range, there v30 sounds good from the demos or the greenback lower watts is nice I bet


British/Classic Lead by itself doesn't have that mid-boost, you're right, but combined with a V30-type speaker sounds pretty good - each one fills in the frequencies that the other one is missing.


----------



## whitecloud

Throwing in my $.02 in. Have a 16 ohm WGS Veteran 30 in the combo and a 16 ohm WGS Retro 30 in a closed back 1x12, these guys really blend well together. a converted 2x12 from a 4x12 so the 2 speakers are the 70/80 and a Eminence Private Jack at least for now, but I may just put
that one away and get the Fender 2x12 with V Type speakers. Back to the Warehouse speakers the Retro 30 works great with my other amps so that is why it's in the external cab. A slight nod to it over the Veteran 30 in the combo, but I just dial the settings accordingly. That said still will try a Celestion Vintage 30 in the DSL at some point. All of these are easy mods for this amp.


----------



## GibsonKramer

Grabbed a V30, off Reverb, yanked out of a 1960AV. Only has a few hours on it. $85 + $10 shipping.


----------



## aussiebluesville

I put a celestion vintage 30 16ohm into my dsl40c a week ago, breaking in nicely and at the moment a definate improvement on the 70/80, coupled with a 2x12 16ohm cab with 2 jensen's in it, it packs a punch


----------



## BanditPanda

whitecloud said:


> Throwing in my $.02 in. Have a 16 ohm WGS Veteran 30 in the combo and a 16 ohm WGS Retro 30 in a closed back 1x12, these guys really blend well together. a converted 2x12 from a 4x12 so the 2 speakers are the 70/80 and a Eminence Private Jack at least for now, but I may just put
> that one away and get the Fender 2x12 with V Type speakers. Back to the Warehouse speakers the Retro 30 works great with my other amps so that is why it's in the external cab. A slight nod to it over the Veteran 30 in the combo, but I just dial the settings accordingly. That said still will try a Celestion Vintage 30 in the DSL at some point. All of these are easy mods for this amp.



Although WGS recommends a combo of ET65 & Vet 30 I preferred ( from You Tube clips|) the Retro paired with the ET65 and pretty sure that is the path I will take.
BP


----------



## whitecloud

BanditPanda said:


> Although WGS recommends a combo of ET65 & Vet 30 I preferred ( from You Tube clips|) the Retro paired with the ET65 and pretty sure that is the path I will take.
> BP


Yes I realize that however I believe that is the case if the 2 speakers are in the same cab/combo amp. My situation is different. one being in the DSL40c and the other in an external closed back cab. It just seems to work out nicely for me.


----------



## Bownse

I've been pleased (surprisingly) with the Seventy-80 and GS12-75 Creamback combo in a closed-back cab. The harsheness of the 70/80 is tamed with the lushness (jazziness) of the Creamback while adding some high-end punch.


----------



## BanditPanda

whitecloud said:


> Yes I realize that however I believe that is the case if the 2 speakers are in the same cab/combo amp. My situation is different. one being in the DSL40c and the other in an external closed back cab. It just seems to work out nicely for me.



I am going the full monty. Making a separate head and 2 external 1 x 12 cabs


----------



## nevermind

BanditPanda said:


> I am going the full monty. Making a separate head and 2 external 1 x 12 cabs



I have a Mesa Mark V:25 Express+ Combo with a Mesa Thiele cab underneath it. The open back top and Thiele combination has HUGE sound, without a huge footprint. I'm doing the same thing with my DSL40c. I have a custom built Thiele cab on the way and it will match the width of the 40C. I'm running the Mesa c90 speakers in everything right now.

I had a Mark V 25w head and two 1x12 cabinets (Mesa mini recto (v30) and Mesa Thiele (c90)) and it could not match the depth of the Express+ on top of the Thiele.


----------



## BanditPanda

Cool. So you'll be basically looking at something like this:
I


----------



## BanditPanda

I am going for portability and so my project will look like this:'


----------



## nevermind

Yes, precisely and now I get your diabolical plot, Dr. Evil...


----------



## Bownse

It works well to make the Combo more portable (at least in 2 trips).


----------



## BanditPanda

Hey Bownse. That's 2 x 12 right there eh?
Is it yours? Is it heavy? ( the cab with 2 x 12 )
BP


----------



## Scumback Speakers

I just had a client get his new DSL40 combo together today and he's pretty happy. Stock circuit, took out the stock speaker (Creamback/G12T-75?), put in a Scumback M75-LD 65w 16 ohm, and he put in ANOS Mullard ECC83/12AX7 preamp tubes. He sent me this message: 

"Jim,
Bravo on this speaker. It killed the high end fizz without killing the clarity and articulation. Got that woody Greenback bark, too. Tightened up the bottom end without being stiff. Genius right out of the box.
Brian R."

I think he said he had Marshall labeled JJ preamp tubes in it before he put in the old Mullards (60/70's Mullards, not reissues).

Maybe this information will help some of you dial in your DSL amps. I don't have one of these, so I had to rely on what my clients experienced.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

Scumback Speakers said:


> I just had a client get his new DSL40 combo together today and he's pretty happy. Stock circuit, took out the stock speaker (Creamback/G12T-75?), put in a Scumback M75-LD 65w 16 ohm, and he put in ANOS Mullard ECC83/12AX7 preamp tubes. He sent me this message:
> 
> "Jim,
> Bravo on this speaker. It killed the high end fizz without killing the clarity and articulation. Got that woody Greenback bark, too. Tightened up the bottom end without being stiff. Genius right out of the box.
> Brian R."
> 
> I think he said he had Marshall labeled JJ preamp tubes in it before he put in the old Mullards (60/70's Mullards, not reissues).
> 
> Maybe this information will help some of you dial in your DSL amps. I don't have one of these, so I had to rely on what my clients experienced.


That's very similar to a G12-65, correct? If so, then I agree that's a GREAT choice for DSL40C combo - smooths out the harshness in the treble, tightens up the looseness in the bass, and adds a nice, thick midrange.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

GibsonKramer said:


> Grabbed a V30, off Reverb, yanked out of a 1960AV. Only has a few hours on it. $85 + $10 shipping.


Great score GK, that should be the Marshall-labeled "Vintage" right? That's the _original _design, the Celestion-labeled Vintage 30 changed to formula a bit (more "middy" and more bottom end too).


----------



## GibsonKramer

Angus Rhoads said:


> Great score GK, that should be the Marshall-labeled "Vintage" right? That's the _original _design, the Celestion-labeled Vintage 30 changed to formula a bit (more "middy" and more bottom end too).



Yes, indeed. That was part of my reading, and comparisons. Started with searching for UK vs China.

From my understanding, Celestion has redesigned the V30, at least 3 times. Marshall doesn't like that, so they insist on the original specs, for the "Vintage" labeled speaker.

Don't know how accurate that all is. But, I prefer the Marshall ones.

The desire to turn this into a cream head/combo package, is becoming strong.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

GibsonKramer said:


> Yes, indeed. That was part of my reading, and comparisons. Started with searching for UK vs China.
> 
> From my understanding, Celestion has redesigned the V30, at least 3 times. Marshall doesn't like that, so they insist on the original specs, for the "Vintage" labeled speaker.
> 
> Don't know how accurate that all is. But, I prefer the Marshall ones.
> 
> The desire to turn this into a cream head/combo package, is becoming strong.


I'd say that's pretty accurate (and apparently the MESA version is based on the FIRST Celestion-labeled version, just to muddy the waters some more...)
I have a Marshall Vintage in my DSL40C. I also have a couple of Chinese-made V30s and they sound good too, just a little different.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

Oh man, that cream combo is too cool looking, don't take the axe to it!


----------



## GibsonKramer

Angus Rhoads said:


> Oh man, that cream combo is too cool looking, don't take the axe to it!



Yeah... plus, it is my only combo.


----------



## Bownse

BanditPanda said:


> Hey Bownse. That's 2 x 12 right there eh?
> Is it yours? Is it heavy? ( the cab with 2 x 12 )
> BP



Lighter than the DSL40C combo. I like that moving the head out of the combo also does a tube good. I'll have to put it on a scale and see for real (or for as real as those crappy bathroom scales read).

On a side note: We're clearing out Mom's house in preparation to sell it. I found the old RCA Victor radio/record player (78 rpm) cabinet and sold it for about $50. It wasn't until about 15 minutes after the guy drove away that I realized I could have scavenged those 40s/50s tubes out of it and ended up happier. DUH!


----------



## whitecloud

I just dug up a Ratheon 12Ax7a. I have a few more NOS tubes from a old Ham radio guy that passed away some years back.
Friends got an old Reel to Reel tape deck from the 60's with tubes in it. Guess I should check as he offered it to me


----------



## ken361

Heres my new EF86 tube pedal, I had the boostassio boost in 2011 it was great pushing the class 5 amp it retained the low and and added some nice highs! Makes your cleans chime more or you can push the gain on amps. Or add some serious fuzz tones also. I first played a Vox handwired heritage with the EF86 preamp and the cleans blew me away! punchy clear dynamic tones. Bedroom recordings i have to test loud over the weekend but im digging it so far it livens the amp up. Still tinkering with the settings.
https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=efFEFXbCDmI crunch






https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=efFEFXbCDmI

Fuzz


----------



## Scumback Speakers

Angus Rhoads said:


> That's very similar to a G12-65, correct? If so, then I agree that's a GREAT choice for DSL40C combo - smooths out the harshness in the treble, tightens up the looseness in the bass, and adds a nice, thick midrange.


The M75-LD is similar, it has a bit more low end/low mids to make it sound a little beefier.


----------



## Bownse

Bownse said:


> Lighter than the DSL40C combo. I like that moving the head out of the combo also does a tube good. I'll have to put it on a scale and see for real (or for as real as those crappy bathroom scales read).



30# for the 2x12 cab with a 70/80 and G12H-75.

The 40C as a combo with only the G12H-75 in it was around 60#


----------



## BanditPanda

That's a very good reduction in weight.!
Going with 1 x 12 will of course provide more reduction and that's the route I will be taking.
Thanks.
BP


----------



## ken361

Playing loud yesterday the amp sounded fatter and bigger with the pedal less boxy sounding. In a good way! Kinda wasn't expecting that.


----------



## Bownse

BanditPanda said:


> That's a very good reduction in weight.!
> Going with 1 x 12 will of course provide more reduction and that's the route I will be taking.
> Thanks.
> BP



The head is heavier than the cab.


----------



## Micky

whitecloud said:


> I just dug up a Ratheon 12Ax7a. I have a few more NOS tubes from a old Ham radio guy that passed away some years back.
> Friends got an old Reel to Reel tape deck from the 60's with tubes in it. Guess I should check as he offered it to me


ALWAYS check old equipment for tubes! We Ham Radio Operators generally have access to a lot of old analog stuff, it is rare to find audio finals for an amp, but there are plenty of preamp tubes to be found.

Check Hamfests and craft shows for the older stuff, people are generally pretty eager to unload old boat anchors cheap, and sometimes they are LOADED with great stuff, including old caps and other components...


----------



## BanditPanda

Bownse said:


> The head is heavier than the cab.



Bownse, put that on the bathroom scale would ya ?


----------



## ken361

Wowwwwwwwwww this pedal kick ass! if anyone cares( the pushed cleans with some breakup amazing good!!!!!!!! 10x times better then the amps clean channel alone


----------



## Bownse

BanditPanda said:


> Bownse, put that on the bathroom scale would ya ?



31.6#

1. It pretty evenly divides the weight between the 2.
2. My SWAG of the combo with Creamback had to be high even though the 70/80 is a featherweight compared to the Creamback.


----------



## BanditPanda

Is the effects loop in the DSL40C buffered ?


----------



## Micky

BanditPanda said:


> Is the effects loop in the DSL40C buffered ?


No


----------



## ken361

I turned up the bias to 36 to see if clean channel was less bassy and it wasn't! red was a little too hot so I tried the red set 30 and that seemed a tad less gain so I bumped it up to 32 like I had it last week at a PV 475 or so.


----------



## deckard1

ken361 said:


> I turned up the bias to 36 to see if clean channel was less bassy and it wasn't! red was a little too hot so I tried the red set 30 and that seemed a tad less gain so I bumped it up to 32 like I had it last week at a PV 475 or so.



Did Marshall move the bias adjustment to the inside of the amp to prevent people from possibly hurting themselves? If I am not mistaken, the bias adjustment used to be accessible without removing the chassis on the DSL's.


----------



## ken361

deckard1 said:


> Did Marshall move the bias adjustment to the inside of the amp to prevent people from possibly hurting themselves? If I am not mistaken, the bias adjustment used to be accessible without removing the chassis on the DSL's.


its inside


----------



## deckard1

ken361 said:


> its inside



Ain't that a pity?


----------



## MarshallDog

ken361 said:


> I turned up the bias to 36 to see if clean channel was less bassy and it wasn't! red was a little too hot so I tried the red set 30 and that seemed a tad less gain so I bumped it up to 32 like I had it last week at a PV 475 or so.



Lately I have thought my DSL 40C might be a bit bassy also. So I tried running the resonance at 1 and bass at 5 and presence at 6 and that seems to work really good.


----------



## GibsonKramer

Well, speaking of weight and bass (and TREBLE!)...














Someone (I don't remember where?) asked me, why I was swapping out speakers? Any questions? 






I think it took me longer to take pictures, than to swap it out. What a difference! Night and day! The BMT is actually usable now, without having to plug into one of my ext. cabs. I was not enjoying the break in, on the Seventy/80. All those guitars I bought playing through a very well-used DSL40C, sounded like dog crap, through the brand new speaker. Only guitar I enjoyed playing with the stock speaker, was my '68 Reissue Custom. But, it sounds good through anything. 

However, that Seventy/80 brand new... its ice picks on my ears. 

The V30 changed all that. I can still hear the stiffness in the cone. But, I can use my treble now... actually adjust it above 2. I can use resonance and not turn the bass into a flubby mess. 

This one is going to be fun to break in. Not like nails on a chalk board. That's about my only knock on the DSL. The stock speaker, is horrid, out of the box.

Some more pics. Yes, its significantly heavier. LOL! But, I do have the coolest DSL40C, on the block.


----------



## ken361

GibsonKramer said:


> Well, speaking of weight and bass (and TREBLE!)...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Someone (I don't remember where?) asked me, why I was swapping out speakers? Any questions?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think it took me longer to take pictures, than to swap it out. What a difference! Night and day! The BMT is actually usable now, without having to plug into one of my ext. cabs. I was not enjoying the break in, on the Seventy/80. All those guitars I bought playing through a very well-used DSL40C, sounded like dog crap, through the brand new speaker. Only guitar I enjoyed playing with the stock speaker, was my '68 Reissue Custom. But, it sounds good through anything.
> 
> However, that Seventy/80 brand new... its ice picks on my ears.
> 
> The V30 changed all that. I can still hear the stiffness in the cone. But, I can use my treble now... actually adjust it above 2. I can use resonance and not turn the bass into a flubby mess.
> 
> This one is going to be fun to break in. Not like nails on a chalk board. That's about my only knock on the DSL. The stock speaker, is horrid, out of the box.
> 
> Some more pics. Yes, its significantly heavier. LOL! But, I do have the coolest DSL40C, on the block.


What was the bias at? hate to sound like a broken record but the 70/80 isnt really that harsh if its set right! hell I had my treble at 6 at least but when I first got the amp it was 3 or 4 and mids at 4 to tame it for months! I got a second 70/80 I tried a few months ago but im still using a ET65 anyways im sure it sounds great Those UK ones are pretty smooth I had one with Mini Rec and Mesa cab


----------



## ken361

Pedals crunch sound, this is my new crunch channel im using over the amps channel, less bass more sparkle


----------



## solarburn

ken361 said:


> Pedals crunch sound, this is my new crunch channel im using over the amps channel, less bass more sparkle




First time hearing this pedal. Sounds real good man.


----------



## ken361

solarburnDSL50 said:


> First time hearing this pedal. Sounds real good man.


actually came out in 2011 for a year or so but when I talked to the owner he said they still make them. EF86 has the gain around 200 compared to a 12ax7. If anyone played a vintage amp or the older vox heritage the EF86 is pretty magical but can be microphonic in a lot of amps so some builders would stay away from them before there in matchless amps bad cats morgans and other high priced boutique amps


----------



## solarburn

ken361 said:


> actually came out in 2011 for a year or so but when I talked to the owner he said they still make them. EF86 has the gain around 200 compared to a 12ax7. If anyone played a vintage amp or the older vox heritage the EF86 is pretty magical but can be microphonic in a lot of amps so some builders would stay away from them before there in matchless amps bad cats morgans and other high priced boutique amps



Dr Z uses the EF86's too. Pedal sounds good.


----------



## GibsonKramer

ken361 said:


> What was the bias at? hate to sound like a broken record but the 70/80 isnt really that harsh if its set right! hell I had my treble at 6 at least but when I first got the amp it was 3 or 4 and mids at 4 to tame it for months! I got a second 70/80 I tried a few months ago but im still using a ET65 anyways im sure it sounds great Those UK ones are pretty smooth I had one with Mini Rec and Mesa cab



Don't know. Opened it up, and thought these were supposed to have easy access to trim pots, without having to remove the chassis. When I found that wasn't the case, or I just missed them... I wasn't going through that again.

So I just swapped out the speaker, and got my desired tone.

If I have some time, or the inclination, I'll check this week/weekend. I just biased the Jubilee, and am not looking forward to sticking my hands inside another amp, with a meter, and screwdriver. I have a very healthy respect for high voltages (though amperage, is the killer).


----------



## ken361

GibsonKramer said:


> Don't know. Opened it up, and thought these were supposed to have easy access to trim pots, without having to remove the chassis. When I found that wasn't the case, or I just missed them... I wasn't going through that again.
> 
> So I just swapped out the speaker, and got my desired tone.
> 
> If I have some time, or the inclination, I'll check this week/weekend. I just biased the Jubilee, and am not looking forward to sticking my hands inside another amp, with a meter, and screwdriver. I have a very healthy respect for high voltages (though amperage, is the killer).


yeah I know about taking it apart I was leary for a long time but finally started doing it this year. Sunday I did it 3 times! least I know what sounds best to me


----------



## ken361

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Dr Z uses the EF86's too. Pedal sounds good.


you would love it for light break up tones and the fuzz is pretty crazy too ill put some more clips up


----------



## Angus Rhoads

GibsonKramer said:


> Well, speaking of weight and bass (and TREBLE!)...
> 
> 
> Someone (I don't remember where?) asked me, why I was swapping out speakers? Any questions?
> 
> 
> I think it took me longer to take pictures, than to swap it out. What a difference! Night and day! The BMT is actually usable now, without having to plug into one of my ext. cabs. I was not enjoying the break in, on the Seventy/80. All those guitars I bought playing through a very well-used DSL40C, sounded like dog crap, through the brand new speaker. Only guitar I enjoyed playing with the stock speaker, was my '68 Reissue Custom. But, it sounds good through anything.
> 
> However, that Seventy/80 brand new... its ice picks on my ears.
> 
> The V30 changed all that. I can still hear the stiffness in the cone. But, I can use my treble now... actually adjust it above 2. I can use resonance and not turn the bass into a flubby mess.
> 
> This one is going to be fun to break in. Not like nails on a chalk board. That's about my only knock on the DSL. The stock speaker, is horrid, out of the box.
> 
> Some more pics. Yes, its significantly heavier. LOL! But, I do have the coolest DSL40C, on the block.


Well, I'm glad you decided to listen to me... LOL
What'd tell ya, doesn't it sound KILLER with a Vintage 30? Happy Breaking In bud, it only gets better from here!


----------



## BmanEL34

Newbie poster here. I've been scouring the DSL40 threads after buying one last week. I've been spoiled the last 30 years with '73 50 watt but like many others I'm trying to downsize. Being used to 'The Tone', first thoughts on this amp was:

Loved the clean channel. My 50watt didn't have much headroom and I wanted something more versatile.

The overdrive on all channels sounded way too trebly and pretty crappy. I expected this since I've been reading up on it and i've got a creamback 65m coming today. I've also picked up a couple of capacitors - 68pf, 100pf, and a replacement 470pf (just in case).

I plan on seeing if the speaker swap does the trick but from what I've read and heard the C19 mod is something I'm prepared to do. I'll probably throw in the 100pf because I do want to be able to cut through the mix. I'm up against a fender twin.

The question I have for those who are knowledgeable is: The capacitors I have are 300v....will these work? The guy at the electronics store said they're good up to 300v so I'm assuming yes but the values I've read on the forums were 50v. Can anyone confirm this?


----------



## ken361

.


----------



## Bownse

I've been considering having my amp tech install bias extensions onto the exterior of the chassis so they can be adjusted by pulling the back like you can with tube swaps.


----------



## Len

BmanEL34 said:


> Newbie poster here. I've been scouring the DSL40 threads after buying one last week. I've been spoiled the last 30 years with '73 50 watt but like many others I'm trying to downsize. Being used to 'The Tone', first thoughts on this amp was:
> 
> Loved the clean channel. My 50watt didn't have much headroom and I wanted something more versatile.
> 
> The overdrive on all channels sounded way too trebly and pretty crappy. I expected this since I've been reading up on it and i've got a creamback 65m coming today. I've also picked up a couple of capacitors - 68pf, 100pf, and a replacement 470pf (just in case).
> 
> I plan on seeing if the speaker swap does the trick but from what I've read and heard the C19 mod is something I'm prepared to do. I'll probably throw in the 100pf because I do want to be able to cut through the mix. I'm up against a fender twin.
> 
> The question I have for those who are knowledgeable is: The capacitors I have are 300v....will these work? The guy at the electronics store said they're good up to 300v so I'm assuming yes but the values I've read on the forums were 50v. Can anyone confirm this?


Yeah, that will be fine. The C19 mod should work well for you.


----------



## BmanEL34

Thanks for the reply!

Sifting back through the posts it seems like the board is split on using the amp as a bedroom amp vs gigging amp. I've got a Blackstar HT5R for room volume and it kills the DSL at low levels - cleans excluded. I plan on using the Blackstar as a wet amp. My lil rig should sound GLORIOUS!!


----------



## BanditPanda

Seriously ? Never thought there was any debate on here 'bout the DSL40C being a gigging amp.
There is no question about that in my mind anyway. It most definitely is a gigging amp.
Fact is even at the 20 watt RMS triode level it is way too loud for bedroom levels however it can serve that purpose with pedals and what not.
BP.


----------



## tmingle

Bownse said:


> I've been considering having my amp tech install bias extensions onto the exterior of the chassis so they can be adjusted by pulling the back like you can with tube swaps.


I installed external test points and pot on my 401. I will be doing the same with my 40C over the winter.


----------



## Micky

tmingle said:


> I installed external test points and pot on my 401. I will be doing the same with my 40C over the winter.


Please post your procedure with photos.


----------



## tmingle

Micky said:


> Please post your procedure with photos.


I will try when I do the 40C. It was really easy on the 401.


----------



## ken361

Quick shootout EF86 tube clean channel with slight crunch from the pedal vs the marshall crunch channel, whats your favorite I know what mine is Sounds similar to a expensive Matchess lol


----------



## BmanEL34

The first and last had a tad more clarity. Was that at bedroom volume?


----------



## ken361

BmanEL34 said:


> The first and last had a tad more clarity. Was that at bedroom volume?
> 
> 
> 
> yes its sounds way better live
Click to expand...


----------



## BanditPanda

.


----------



## MarshallDog

BmanEL34 said:


> Newbie poster here. I've been scouring the DSL40 threads after buying one last week. I've been spoiled the last 30 years with '73 50 watt but like many others I'm trying to downsize. Being used to 'The Tone', first thoughts on this amp was:
> 
> Loved the clean channel. My 50watt didn't have much headroom and I wanted something more versatile.
> 
> The overdrive on all channels sounded way too trebly and pretty crappy. I expected this since I've been reading up on it and i've got a creamback 65m coming today. I've also picked up a couple of capacitors - 68pf, 100pf, and a replacement 470pf (just in case).
> 
> I plan on seeing if the speaker swap does the trick but from what I've read and heard the C19 mod is something I'm prepared to do. I'll probably throw in the 100pf because I do want to be able to cut through the mix. I'm up against a fender twin.
> 
> The question I have for those who are knowledgeable is: The capacitors I have are 300v....will these work? The guy at the electronics store said they're good up to 300v so I'm assuming yes but the values I've read on the forums were 50v. Can anyone confirm this?



Those will work fine the only downside may be the physical size of the cap and leads being larger than a 50V cap. If I recall, there is room in there were C19 is, its not super tight on space so you should be OK and hooefully the larger leads fit in the PCB solder eyelets. I use either 50V or 100V typically whi her is available!


----------



## BmanEL34

Thanks. All three caps look almost identical with the exception of the values stamped on them and they're all small like the orig c19. 

I'm going on blind faith in what I've read here and will install the 100pf cap first without hearing the amp at full vol. with my band. I've also installed the creamback. My ultimate goal is that the clean channel stays clean and the 1st ultra channel is my dirty classic rock channel and then push the tube screamer for screaming leads or higher gain tones on the ultra channel or use it for lightly overdriving the clean for blues dirty tones. A distortion or fuzz pedal may be needed instead. We'll see. 
I'm used to a one channel amp and can easily switch to the crunch and vol. down if it works out that way. I may end up finding that more practical. I have so much hope for this amp but will have to wait to really put it through the test.


----------



## solarburn

ken361 said:


> Quick shootout EF86 tube clean channel with slight crunch from the pedal vs the marshall crunch channel, whats your favorite I know what mine is Sounds similar to a expensive Matchess lol




I would say the pedal offers a nice classic rawk tone. And as a player I would appreciate such an option among what I can already get.


----------



## solarburn

BmanEL34 said:


> Thanks. All three caps look almost identical with the exception of the values stamped on them and they're all small like the orig c19.
> 
> I'm going on blind faith in what I've read here and will install the 100pf cap first without hearing the amp at full vol. with my band. I've also installed the creamback. My ultimate goal is that the clean channel stays clean and the 1st ultra channel is my dirty classic rock channel and then push the tube screamer for screaming leads or higher gain tones on the ultra channel or use it for lightly overdriving the clean for blues dirty tones. A distortion or fuzz pedal may be needed instead. We'll see.
> I'm used to a one channel amp and can easily switch to the crunch and vol. down if it works out that way. I may end up finding that more practical. I have so much hope for this amp but will have to wait to really put it through the test.



When you get it tuned where you want it put up a clip. I want to compare my 70/80 speakered DSL to it. I want to put a Heritage 65 in mine. These tunings you guys do help me make informed choices.


----------



## ken361

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I would say the pedal offers a nice classic rawk tone. And as a player I would appreciate such an option among what I can already get.


Thanks for the input took me a good while to dial my EVH guitar yesterday.I had some slight gain on the pedal and the volume back some and didn't like it as much then later I noticed I had the reverb at 7 when I was recording,it added brightness!

Dialing that back and went back the clean boost set and that went better! It has a bias knob to that can make the tube break up or more headroom. For the red 1 I have to keep the volume just around 12 o clock theres a fine line for the red set up or it can squeal. 12 volts AC power it can get loud,gain up it gets that Sabbath type fuzz or Hendrix tones. Playing the clean channel loud with EVH it gets bass so maybe just boost it with crunch on.


----------



## solarburn

Angus Rhoads said:


> Well, I'm glad you decided to listen to me... LOL
> What'd tell ya, doesn't it sound KILLER with a Vintage 30? Happy Breaking In bud, it only gets better from here!



No. As a matter of fact I will put my 70/80 against your V30 anytime. However this is for fun. Not to be a dick. But if you can ball up I will put you straight up. 5 stripperz to your door. LOL


----------



## Angus Rhoads

solarburnDSL50 said:


> No. As a matter of fact I will put my 70/80 against your V30 anytime. However this is for fun. Not to be a dick. But if you can ball up I will put you straight up. 5 stripperz to your door. LOL


LOL


----------



## solarburn

Angus Rhoads said:


> LOL



Right on my bro. You took me just right. You know I'm mouthn off for fun.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Right on my bro. You took me just right. You know I'm mouthn off for fun.


I'm guessing you had a little "fuel in the tank" too!


----------



## ken361

Fireball


----------



## BmanEL34

I finally completed the c19 mod. I swapped the existing cap for a 100pf cap. I gotta say when I first opened it up and looked at the tiny capacitor I chickened out and put the amp back together thinking I'd have to pay someone. But I couldn't find anyone that could get to it in a few days even though I was willing to walk them through it. So, I said F-It and gave it a shot. I don't have clips yet, but here are my observations.

1. With just the creamback 65w speaker swap and original c19 cap the tone change was much smoother with a tad more bass umph to filled out the sound. But the EQ from clean to OD channel was drastic. The amp would've been usable and I probably would've bought an EQ pedal to make that work. The speaker was a LOT smoother. I bought the amp used and can't say if the 70/80's were broken in but either way I'm sure I made the right decision on the speaker.

2. After the speaker and the c19 cap swap: I think it's well documented in the 400 pages above and my ears confirm what was previously said. The amp does sound more organic and there is a clarity there that definitely wasn't there before. The EQ's knobs behave like I'd expect and the jump from clean/crunch to OD is more like a jump from a JMT 45 or non-boosted JMP 50 to a JCM 800 or a boosted JMP 50. 

The speaker swap made the tones more attainable and the C19 mod made them more accessible if that makes sense.


----------



## solarburn

So I have been rolling power tubes in the 900 clone. I'm going between two EL34B's, 6L6's and a pair of RFT EL34'S. So I'm leaving the 34B's in cause they add a bit of topend sizzle.

Been bouncing back and forth with two 6L6's and two NOS RFT 34' s. I find the two 6L6's add a nice meaty mid but a more modern sound and the NOS RFT's shave a bit of the meat in the mids but give me a better vintage tone and feel. Yes it's noticeable.

My point here on my fav thread is power tubes do effect tone whether you are running a master volume or NMV amp.

I play at volume 90% of the time so many players may not know cause they have to play with much less volume. However if you only stay in preamp territory only you will miss that proper sick mix of power tube.

My DSL40C is the same way. I use my 900 clone as an example cause it self biases readily and I can roll faster...with gloves.LOL


----------



## ken361

solarburnDSL50 said:


> So I have been rolling power tubes in the 900 clone. I'm going between two EL34B's, 6L6's and a pair of RFT EL34'S. So I'm leaving the 34B's in cause they add a bit of topend sizzle.
> 
> Been bouncing back and forth with two 6L6's and two NOS RFT 34' s. I find the two 6L6's add a nice meaty mid but a more modern sound and the NOS RFT's shave a bit of the meat in the mids but give me a better vintage tone and feel. Yes it's noticeable.
> 
> My point here on my fav thread is power tubes do effect tone whether you are running a master volume or NMV amp.
> 
> I play at volume 90% of the time so many players may not know cause they have to play with much less volume. However if you only stay in preamp territory only you will miss that proper sick mix of power tube.
> 
> My DSL40C is the same way. I use my 900 clone as an example cause it self biases readily and I can roll faster...with gloves.LOL


Running it at 5 it starts to shine on the red 1 for me but mostly at 4 cause its pretty loud


----------



## ken361

threw the stock speaker back in I like how it records at low levels it has a nicer top end. I'm boosting it here some. 20hrs on it so far so it should get better! will see how I like it playing loud today! I have the treb mids and pres at 7 believe it or not.


----------



## solarburn

ken361 said:


> Running it at 5 it starts to shine on the red 1 for me but mostly at 4 cause its pretty loud



Me too Ken. I usually run my DSL40 at 4 on the knob. I don't find much over that matters. 5 is as much as I will go with this combo. Plenty fucking loud at that point.


----------



## solarburn

ken361 said:


> threw the stock speaker back in I like how it records at low levels it has a nicer top end. I'm boosting it here some. 20hrs on it so far so it should get better! will see how I like it playing loud today! I have the treb mids and pres at 7 believe it or not.




Great tune bro! Sounds awesome. Badass looking guitar!


----------



## ken361

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Great tune bro! Sounds awesome. Badass looking guitar!


thanks it should sound better over time, not harsh at all. I could of fuzzed it up by cranking the gain knob on the pedal and use the clean channel


----------



## ken361

Playing loud today I dialed it in quicker then 2 weeks ago using the Les Paul Special II maybe less highs from the WGS ET65 speaker. I hope the mids open up more with more hours on it which it should. The pushed cleans were kinda bassy again then I went to the crunch channel and upped the pedals volume to 2 o clock and got a warm good crunchy tone its was pretty nice much better then stock! EF86 tube adds warmth, clarity and dynamics to your tone, I backed the bass off from 3 to 2 and that did it. definitely give it more time and see how she sounds. Totally different experience when the amp was new and the bias at 39/41!!


----------



## ken361

Time for some vodka's now. Solar that Fireball whiskey is pretty darn good!


----------



## Angus Rhoads

solarburnDSL50 said:


> When you get it tuned where you want it put up a clip. I want to compare my 70/80 speakered DSL to it. I want to put a Heritage 65 in mine. These tunings you guys do help me make informed choices.


Solar, had some spare time the other day and loaded my Marshall Heritage (G12-65) back into the DSL. Sounds even better than I had remembered. I recorded these clips on my phone - tried a few different ways but ended up having to keep it on my knee about a foot away from the speaker grille for the best sound (that was an adventure). It's all red channel - I just ran thru the first few AC/DC and Zep riffs that popped into my head on Lead 1, then the last minute is just noodling some licks on Lead 2. Guitar was my LP Classic, 500T bridge pickup. Seems like the transfer to YT rolled off the high end, it's more crisp on my phone, but this is pretty accurate as far as the fat mids and tight bass:


----------



## MarshallDog

Sounds great Ken361!!!


----------



## ken361

Angus Rhoads said:


> Solar, had some spare time the other day and loaded my Marshall Heritage (G12-65) back into the DSL. Sounds even better than I had remembered. I recorded these clips on my phone - tried a few different ways but ended up having to keep it on my knee about a foot away from the speaker grille for the best sound (that was an adventure). It's all red channel - I just ran thru the first few AC/DC and Zep riffs that popped into my head on Lead 1, then the last minute is just noodling some licks on Lead 2. Guitar was my LP Classic, 500T bridge pickup. Seems like the transfer to YT rolled off the high end, it's more crisp on my phone, but this is pretty accurate as far as the fat mids and tight bass:



Cant listen now but I been eyeing that speaker too. Greenbacks seem to be the ticket too for that classic rock tones .


----------



## ken361

MarshallDog said:


> Sounds great Ken361!!!


Need a second Mic! thanks


----------



## solarburn

Angus Rhoads said:


> Solar, had some spare time the other day and loaded my Marshall Heritage (G12-65) back into the DSL. Sounds even better than I had remembered. I recorded these clips on my phone - tried a few different ways but ended up having to keep it on my knee about a foot away from the speaker grille for the best sound (that was an adventure). It's all red channel - I just ran thru the first few AC/DC and Zep riffs that popped into my head on Lead 1, then the last minute is just noodling some licks on Lead 2. Guitar was my LP Classic, 500T bridge pickup. Seems like the transfer to YT rolled off the high end, it's more crisp on my phone, but this is pretty accurate as far as the fat mids and tight bass:




You fuck'n baller! I knew you played good ole wholesome R&R! Looks like we walk the same musical timeline. Loved all those bits of tunes. Real good man. Great noodles!

YT always dulls clips up. I know what you mean. At least we get an idea.

So glad you put that speaker back in and and gave us a taste. Sooner or later I'm putting that Heritage in mine. It's another way to shape a more vintage tone other than circuit mods. Speakers effect tone substantially...or can. Good or bad. They have their own voicing/EQ curve.

Really appreciate the demo as it's something I want to do with mine.


----------



## solarburn

ken361 said:


> Time for some vodka's now. Solar that Fireball whiskey is pretty darn good!



Put the FB in the freezer and drink it cold. Best way. It's TOO easy to drink. Makes me stoopee but all you guys know this already.


----------



## gary moore

Micky said:


> Seems like there is a rash of V2 failures as of late...
> Anyone want to venture what the cause of it might be?


how do you know if the V2 is playing up? I noticed last night at a gig that mine seemed to have lost its "gainy' feel? I play a few Gary Moore songs and somehow it felt a bit flat?
The amp is stock at the moment.


----------



## Msharky67

Anybody have a zoom multi-stomp pedal? I use one with my DSL40 and I swear they were made for each other. They just updated it and added a bunch more pedals. There is a boost reverb one and it just screams with this amp. Its now a permanent fixture to my 40.


----------



## ken361

Msharky67 said:


> Anybody have a zoom multi-stomp pedal? I use one with my DSL40 and I swear they were made for each other. They just updated it and added a bunch more pedals. There is a boost reverb one and it just screams with this amp. Its now a permanent fixture to my 40.


Though about one of those, have a pic of that model?


----------



## Bownse

ken361 said:


> Though about one of those, have a pic of that model?




http://bfy.tw/DTWy


----------



## Angus Rhoads

solarburnDSL50 said:


> You fuck'n baller! I knew you played good ole wholesome R&R! Looks like we walk the same musical timeline. Loved all those bits of tunes. Real good man. Great noodles!
> 
> YT always dulls clips up. I know what you mean. At least we get an idea.
> 
> So glad you put that speaker back in and and gave us a taste. Sooner or later I'm putting that Heritage in mine. It's another way to shape a more vintage tone other than circuit mods. Speakers effect tone substantially...or can. Good or bad. They have their own voicing/EQ curve.
> 
> Really appreciate the demo as it's something I want to do with mine.


I'll try to get some clips on the Green channel too, but might be a while. We have three kids, still young, so life is hectic! I don't get time to play nearly as often as I used to.
It was interesting swapping that Heritage back in, I had the V30 in there for a long time while I was getting back in touch with my George Lynch/80s metal phase, LOL. That Heritage instantly made me go back to my beginnings - for me it all started with Angus and everything else was built on top of that. For Angus you need that sweet top end and those vocal mids, the Heritage definitely has those.


----------



## solarburn

Angus Rhoads said:


> I'll try to get some clips on the Green channel too, but might be a while. We have three kids, still young, so life is hectic! I don't get time to play nearly as often as I used to.
> It was interesting swapping that Heritage back in, I had the V30 in there for a long time while I was getting back in touch with my George Lynch/80s metal phase, LOL. That Heritage instantly made me go back to my beginnings - for me it all started with Angus and everything else was built on top of that. For Angus you need that sweet top end and those vocal mids, the Heritage definitely has those.



Whenever you get time.
You rawk!


----------



## Angus Rhoads

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Whenever you get time.
> You rawk!


----------



## BmanEL34

Finally gotta chance to use it playing with a band. The amp definitely perfomed up to expectations. I had the volume at about 10oclock (level 4) and was asked to turned down ...hehe. My only issue is that I need an amp stand that angles up. I had problems hearing myself because I didn't have enough room to stand directly in its path. (My poor bass player whined all night). 

I'm coming from '73 50 watter with a 4x12 cab so I'll miss the thump but the versatily makes up for it. Also, with the tubescreamer on it was pure silk. Unfortunately the TS9 gave out so I upped the gain and powered through. 

C19 100pf
65w creamback. 

$550 investment replacing my vintage '73. WOW!!!! ....I can't say enough about the looks I got when I kicked in the tubescreamer. Lynch would've hugged me had he been there...lol.


----------



## ken361

Have a EP boost to put through the works , sounds great low volume at least


----------



## ken361

quick sample with trim pots both on with the gain level all the way down, not sure what setting I'm going with playing loud yet.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

ken361 said:


> quick sample with trim pots both on with the gain level all the way down, not sure what setting I'm going with playing loud yet.




That sounds pretty good Ken, is that into the lead 1 channel?


----------



## ken361

J.LaGrassa said:


> That sounds pretty good Ken, is that into the lead 1 channel?


yeah thx!


----------



## Coronado

Hey, can anyone tell me where I can find some info on the DSL40C? 

Its been quite some time since I stopped by the ol' DSL40 thread. This thing is a monster! I remember back when you could tell someone "check out the DSL40C thread, its got some good stuff in there!". Hell, it would take you a month to go through this bad boy now! 

Had my DSL for about 3 or 4 years now - safe to say its a pretty solid and durable amp. Its been a while since I replaced my power tubes (JJ E34Ls) and recently its seems like its losing some of its oomph. Like crackles, light background fuzz and noise. Pulled the vintage preamp tubes I put in just over a year ago that I got fairly cheap at the Dallas Guitar Festival (used tubes). Thought the noise was most likely coming from tired preamp tubes. Swapped out for 4 JJs and its still making some light noise and still seems a bit on the weak side. Thinking its time to check the power tubes. 

Are JJs still a pretty solid power tube for the DSL40, or have some other types been leading the charge as a favorite?

Thanks!
Ray


----------



## Micky

Where you been bro?


----------



## solarburn

Coronado said:


> Hey, can anyone tell me where I can find some info on the DSL40C?
> 
> Its been quite some time since I stopped by the ol' DSL40 thread. This thing is a monster! I remember back when you could tell someone "check out the DSL40C thread, its got some good stuff in there!". Hell, it would take you a month to go through this bad boy now!
> 
> Had my DSL for about 3 or 4 years now - safe to say its a pretty solid and durable amp. Its been a while since I replaced my power tubes (JJ E34Ls) and recently its seems like its losing some of its oomph. Like crackles, light background fuzz and noise. Pulled the vintage preamp tubes I put in just over a year ago that I got fairly cheap at the Dallas Guitar Festival (used tubes). Thought the noise was most likely coming from tired preamp tubes. Swapped out for 4 JJs and its still making some light noise and still seems a bit on the weak side. Thinking its time to check the power tubes.
> 
> Are JJs still a pretty solid power tube for the DSL40, or have some other types been leading the charge as a favorite?
> 
> Thanks!
> Ray



Clean the legs on those vintage tubes and they may quiet right down. Power tubes will make noise too.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Whenever you get time.
> You rawk!


Solar Bro - had a coupe of free minutes so I got ya a couple of clips of the Green Crunch channel with the Heritage (I'll try to do some more soon). The Skynyrd piece is Gain at 7, then for the Steely bit I kicked in the Tubescreamer, all dials at noon. Here ya go:


----------



## ken361

G12 65? sounds good


----------



## Angus Rhoads

ken361 said:


> G12 65? sounds good


Yeah, the Marshall Heritage version but my understanding is they're the same. 
Was just listening tp your clip with the EP Booster, sounds great. I have one and originally didn't like it with my 40C, but I only tried it on the Green channel, not on the Red. Might have to give it another go!


----------



## ken361

I have the version 2 prb have to leave the gain switch off and maybe keep the treble switch on. Will see Saturday how it works out. Pushing the crunch seems to be pretty good. The steely was cool too nice tones and playing i might have to save up for one of those speakers how is next to a greenback?


----------



## ken361

Was that a TS9 ? I had the mini 808 with a strat at the time and on the red I didnt care for it, colored it too much and i had the ET 65 in at the time which now I think I dont like the highs on it. The 70/80 actually nicer with the top and were my bias is set


----------



## ken361

maybe this would work also less of a mid hump. 
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Used/Maxon/OD808-Overdrive-Effect-Pedal-113493531.gc


----------



## BanditPanda

Angus Rhoads said:


> Solar Bro - had a coupe of free minutes so I got ya a couple of clips of the Green Crunch channel with the Heritage (I'll try to do some more soon). The Skynyrd piece is Gain at 7, then for the Steely bit I kicked in the Tubescreamer, all dials at noon. Here ya go:





Very good Angus. Good playing very good sound!
BP


----------



## Angus Rhoads

Maxon OD-9, which I think is halfway between a TS9 and TS808. But I like the mid-hump, lol
I don't think the Heritage sounds that much like a GB, tho, it's smoother and more rolled off on top.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

BanditPanda said:


> Very good Angus. Good playing very good sound!
> BP


Kind words BP, thanks, but these days I'm all thumbs from not playing/practicing much, I just sneak in some noodling when I can.
Yeah, been having fun recording with my android, doesn't sound half bad! I mean, with headphones I'd say that recording is pretty accurate!


----------



## Angus Rhoads

ken361 said:


> maybe this would work also less of a mid hump.
> http://www.guitarcenter.com/Used/Maxon/OD808-Overdrive-Effect-Pedal-113493531.gc


Check out the Maxon VOP-9, not as much mids as a TS and can do a clean boost too. Next time I can get some clips together I'll use that one so you can hear it.


----------



## dave999z

Haven't been in this thread for a while, but checked a few pages back and don't see anything on this yet.

So Marshall is discontinuing the DSL40C? …


----------



## ken361

its been all over the net today


----------



## BanditPanda

It was announced on this site this morning by TonTon a member from Amsterdam at 6a.m.
with this title:
Dsl40c Eol


----------



## BanditPanda

dave999z said:


> Haven't been in this thread for a while, but checked a few pages back and don't see anything on this yet.
> 
> So Marshall is discontinuing the DSL40C? …





Yup. End of the Line.
BP.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Coronado said:


> Hey, can anyone tell me where I can find some info on the DSL40C?
> 
> Its been quite some time since I stopped by the ol' DSL40 thread. This thing is a monster! I remember back when you could tell someone "check out the DSL40C thread, its got some good stuff in there!". Hell, it would take you a month to go through this bad boy now!
> 
> Had my DSL for about 3 or 4 years now - safe to say its a pretty solid and durable amp. Its been a while since I replaced my power tubes (JJ E34Ls) and recently its seems like its losing some of its oomph. Like crackles, light background fuzz and noise. Pulled the vintage preamp tubes I put in just over a year ago that I got fairly cheap at the Dallas Guitar Festival (used tubes). Thought the noise was most likely coming from tired preamp tubes. Swapped out for 4 JJs and its still making some light noise and still seems a bit on the weak side. Thinking its time to check the power tubes.
> 
> Are JJs still a pretty solid power tube for the DSL40, or have some other types been leading the charge as a favorite?
> 
> Thanks!
> Ray




I like all JJs in my DSL40, if its been a few years I would change the power tubes and make sure to check your bias. Worn power tubes will defenitey suck the life out of your amp!


----------



## solarburn

Angus Rhoads said:


> Solar Bro - had a coupe of free minutes so I got ya a couple of clips of the Green Crunch channel with the Heritage (I'll try to do some more soon). The Skynyrd piece is Gain at 7, then for the Steely bit I kicked in the Tubescreamer, all dials at noon. Here ya go:




Fuck yeah mon. Great playing! The SteelyDan was kill. Bro...really enjoyed.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Fuck yeah mon. Great playing! The SteelyDan was kill. Bro...really enjoyed.


So what do think of the Heritage man, still wanna give it a go? Definitely makes the DSL sound *THICK* & *CREAMY*, like a big old bowl of chocolate pudding with whipped cream on top! Wouldn't be my first choice for 80s Lynch/Scorpions/etc. and maybe too smooth for Gibbons-Eliminator tones, but for pre-1982 kinda sounds it's probably my favorite.


----------



## BanditPanda

Angus Rhoads said:


> So what do think of the Heritage man, still wanna give it a go? Definitely makes the DSL sound *THICK* & *CREAMY*, like a big old bowl of chocolate pudding with whipped cream on top! Wouldn't be my first choice for 80s Lynch/Scorpions/etc. and maybe too smooth for Gibbons-Eliminator tones, but for pre-1982 kinda sounds it's probably my favorite.



Angus.....glad you brought up Gibbons. Just fitted my LP with some SD Pearly Gates...Any speaker you'd have in mind for The Rev's tone?
BP


----------



## Angus Rhoads

BanditPanda said:


> Angus.....glad you brought up Gibbons. Just fitted my LP with some SD Pearly Gates...Any speaker you'd have in mind for The Rev's tone?
> BP


The PG is a nice p/u - had one of those in a "Fat" Strat back in the day! I remember it could be pretty bright in that guitar with some amps, but I'm sure it sounds darker in a Les Paul.
For speaker, I guess it kinda depends on what era Gibbons tone you're looking for - 70s thru El Loco, or Eliminator and after. You're probably looking for pre-Eliminator, i.e. smokier, bluesier, etc. Pretty sure Billy was a Greenback guy in those days (those albums certainly sound like GBs). I'd say any GB variant combined with the PG will get you into that territory (since you can't use a normal GB in a 40W combo). I think the Lynchback is a good GB variant, but maybe not quite "raspy" enough to pull off those ZZ tones - maybe a Creamback?


----------



## Bownse

ken361 said:


> its been all over the net today



Mashall is still listing it without comment about discontinuation.


----------



## Len

There's a whole other thread on the discontinuation.


----------



## BanditPanda

Angus Rhoads said:


> The PG is a nice p/u - had one of those in a "Fat" Strat back in the day! I remember it could be pretty bright in that guitar with some amps, but I'm sure it sounds darker in a Les Paul.
> For speaker, I guess it kinda depends on what era Gibbons tone you're looking for - 70s thru El Loco, or Eliminator and after. You're probably looking for pre-Eliminator, i.e. smokier, bluesier, etc. Pretty sure Billy was a Greenback guy in those days (those albums certainly sound like GBs). I'd say any GB variant combined with the PG will get you into that territory (since you can't use a normal GB in a 40W combo). I think the Lynchback is a good GB variant, but maybe not quite "raspy" enough to pull off those ZZ tones - maybe a Creamback?




Thanks for the insight Angus. I am more of a ZZ Top greatest hits guy than a person who is really familiar their many albums & eras. In any event I don't try to get album tones. I always go for live tones. In this case I do have their 1980 DVD release Live In Germany. From listening to that I realized that Billy did not have a dark LP sound at all. That fact chased me from the stock Gibby 490's and in fact the SD Antiquities and brought me to the PG's which I am extremely happy with.
But getting off topic here but thanks again DSL 40C speaker recommendations.
BP.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

BanditPanda said:


> Thanks for the insight Angus. I am more of a ZZ Top greatest hits guy than a person who is really familiar their many albums & eras. In any event I don't try to get album tones. I always go for live tones. In this case I do have their 1980 DVD release Live In Germany. From listening to that I realized that Billy did not have a dark LP sound at all. That fact chased me from the stock Gibby 490's and in fact the SD Antiquities and brought me to the PG's which I am extremely happy with.
> But getting off topic here but thanks again DSL 40C speaker recommendations.
> BP.


Ahhh Grasshopper, you must be talking about the infamous Rockpalast concert! Yeah, Billy's live rig for that show has been the subject of rumor/investigation/intrigue/legend/conspiracy theory/archeology for years. I don't know that anyone ever figured it out conclusively, but I seem to remember somewhat of a consensus that it was probably a Fender combo like a Vibrolux or something, with a dirt box like the MXR Distortion+.


----------



## BanditPanda

Yes. Rockplast.
Well I'll be damned ! Didn't know of that mystery! And here all along I thought he was always a Marshall player!!


----------



## Angus Rhoads

BanditPanda said:


> Yes. Rockplast.
> Well I'll be damned ! Didn't know of that mystery! And here all along I thought he was always a Marshall player!!


Dude is an EVERYTHING player, he's even into that esoteric stuff that none of us has ever heard of! LOL
Keep in mind, though, what he recorded with was usually different from his live rig. Horses for courses, I guess.


----------



## solarburn

Angus Rhoads said:


> So what do think of the Heritage man, still wanna give it a go? Definitely makes the DSL sound *THICK* & *CREAMY*, like a big old bowl of chocolate pudding with whipped cream on top! Wouldn't be my first choice for 80s Lynch/Scorpions/etc. and maybe too smooth for Gibbons-Eliminator tones, but for pre-1982 kinda sounds it's probably my favorite.



It's almost more smooth than I like but like you said it depends on what stuff is played...Lynch, scorps...I hear exactly what you're saying.

Also my ears like some bite as long as we're not getting ear fatigue from it. You're a great sound board for me cause we dig the same stuff.

Anyways it definitely sounded good. Thanks for the sound bites. I'm thinking....lol


----------



## solarburn

BanditPanda said:


> Angus.....glad you brought up Gibbons. Just fitted my LP with some SD Pearly Gates...Any speaker you'd have in mind for The Rev's tone?
> BP



I've got a PG in bridge on my Westone guitar. It's a bitey muther fucker. Cuts real good.

If you find it too biting get a smoother or darker speaker. My Westone is not an LP so your PG may be more even(less top end)sounding.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

solarburnDSL50 said:


> It's almost more smooth than I like but like you said it depends on what stuff is played...Lynch, scorps...I hear exactly what you're saying.
> 
> Also my ears like some bite as long as we're not getting ear fatigue from it. You're a great sound board for me cause we dig the same stuff.
> 
> Anyways it definitely sounded good. Thanks for the sound bites. I'm thinking....lol


It gets brighter than that for sure - I had my Treb at 4 and Pres at 3, to give you an idea, plus some clarity got lost in the transfer. But yeah, even with more top end & gain it stays pretty smooth. If you like that raunchy sound of a GB being pushed, then this is probably not gonna float yer boat.


----------



## solarburn

Angus Rhoads said:


> It gets brighter than that for sure - I had my Treb at 4 and Pres at 3, to give you an idea, plus some clarity got lost in the transfer. But yeah, even with more top end & gain it stays pretty smooth. If you like that raunchy sound of a GB being pushed, then this is probably not gonna float yer boat.



Well I'm not dismissing it. YT effected top end/clarity and EQ can add more or take away. I wouldn't want it if I didn't hear my kind of good things in it.


----------



## ken361

live in the D now


----------



## Angus Rhoads

ken361 said:


> live in the D now



Yeah! Love Uncle Ted!


----------



## ken361

His wife is from here too, she was filming, it prb still is. Follow Shemane Nugent on Facebook


----------



## solarburn

Wang dang free for all scratch my cat.

Teddy in his hay day kicked ass!


----------



## MarshallDog

Angus Rhoads said:


> Yeah! Love Uncle Ted!



Uncle Teds the best...love him crazy down to earth bastard!!!!


----------



## Angus Rhoads

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Wang dang free for all scratch my cat.
> 
> Teddy in his hay day kicked ass!


Saw him a few years ago with Derek St. Holmes, Mick Brown, and I forget who was on bass, but Ted was still layin' it down, man.


----------



## ken361

He had his own radio station for


Angus Rhoads said:


> Saw him a few years ago with Derek St. Holmes, Mick Brown, and I forget who was on bass, but Ted was still layin' it down, man.


Derek's awesome


----------



## ken361

fired the amp up today and it seems a bit dull and not very loud and lower in gain some so I'm thinking its the speaker so I popped the ET65 and that woke it up some but like it should be my amps been having some hum lately when playing at low volumes and it goes away but usually means for me the power tubes are on the fritz! I have a older set of EH that I know are still decent so I'm going to bias it up in 15 minutes and see how it goes. I knew I should of ordered a new set these will be a year old next month on the 10th. I'm going to order a set on Monday. Not sure on the EP booster yet will see.


----------



## ken361

seems a bit better prb needs new glass though


----------



## Ares Koch

Hey I'm thinking for of getting this amp. I play Metallica right now but I'm getting into Guns N' Roses more. I really want to like this amp but idk if it has enough gain. In the demos it sounds either too muddy or brittle.. is there any ways to fix this? New speaker, tubes, pedals, mods?


----------



## Angus Rhoads

Ares Koch said:


> Hey I'm thinking for of getting this amp. I play Metallica right now but I'm getting into Guns N' Roses more. I really want to like this amp but idk if it has enough gain. In the demos it sounds either too muddy or brittle.. is there any ways to fix this? New speaker, tubes, pedals, mods?


_Plenty _of gain for GnR, man, don't go by those YT demos. I wouldn't bother with tube changes at first, and I honestly don't see the need to mod anything either, but I _would _swap out the stock speaker - if you're looking for GnR tones, slap a Vintage 30 in there. With a V30 in mine I can easily dial in AFD-type tones.


----------



## Ares Koch

Angus Rhoads said:


> _Plenty _of gain for GnR, man, don't go by those YT demos. I wouldn't bother with tube changes at first, and I honestly don't see the need to mod anything either, but I _would _swap out the stock speaker - if you're looking for GnR tones, slap a Vintage 30 in there. With a V30 in mine I can easily dial in AFD-type tones.


Thanks man. So swap to a v30 and what pedal would be good to tighten up the bottom end or for a boost?


----------



## MarshallDog

Ares Koch said:


> Hey I'm thinking for of getting this amp. I play Metallica right now but I'm getting into Guns N' Roses more. I really want to like this amp but idk if it has enough gain. In the demos it sounds either too muddy or brittle.. is there any ways to fix this? New speaker, tubes, pedals, mods?



Oh my son, it has more than enough gain seriously!!!!


----------



## Angus Rhoads

Ares Koch said:


> Thanks man. So swap to a v30 and what pedal would be good to tighten up the bottom end or for a boost?


The bass gets pretty tight with that V30, actually - it's the stock 70/80 that makes it sound flubby. But, for a good boost that also firms things up (and without spending a fortune) you can't go wrong with a tried & true Tubescreamer or BOSS SD1.


----------



## Len

Ares Koch said:


> Hey I'm thinking for of getting this amp. I play Metallica right now but I'm getting into Guns N' Roses more. I really want to like this amp but idk if it has enough gain. In the demos it sounds either too muddy or brittle.. is there any ways to fix this? New speaker, tubes, pedals, mods?


You need to read the start of this thread. The whole thread is about improving the tone via speakers, mods and tubes.


----------



## BmanEL34

It you do stick with the stock amp the Green crunch channel with a boost should get you into GnR territory. Crank it loud


----------



## Ares Koch

Can the Marshall jcm2000 dsl do Metallica and GnR


----------



## Angus Rhoads

Ares Koch said:


> Can the Marshall jcm2000 dsl do Metallica and GnR


Only on the days that end with a "y".


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Ares Koch said:


> Can the Marshall jcm2000 dsl do Metallica and GnR



You should be able to dial in those tones!


----------



## Ares Koch

Angus Rhoads said:


> Only on the days that end with a "y".


Hahaha it took me a while


----------



## Angus Rhoads

Ares Koch said:


> Hahaha it took me a while


----------



## Ares Koch

Angus Rhoads said:


>


What about the newer dsl100h amp


----------



## Angus Rhoads

Ares Koch said:


> What about the newer dsl100h amp


Gain-wise? Yeah, for sure. You really need that much horsepower, though?


----------



## Ares Koch

Angus Rhoads said:


> Gain-wise? Yeah, for sure. You really need that much horsepower, though?


 They have an 100 W head and a 15 watt head so. And the 15 Has Way less controls in the hundred watt does. But I think the 100 Watt can go down to 50


----------



## assaf110

They also have 40 that can do 20. And 100's controls. 
you can always use as a head, or even get a head cab for the 40.


----------



## Bownse

assaf110 said:


> They also have 40 that can do 20. And 100's controls.
> you can always use as a head, or even get a head cab for the 40.



Yup

http://www.fjr-tips.org/misc/amp/DSL40C_Mod/A_Project.html


----------



## BanditPanda

My DSL40CV conversion to head will be ready this weekend !!!


----------



## nevermind

BanditPanda said:


> My DSL40CV conversion to head will be ready this weekend !!!



Congrats! Just got my extra-width Theile cabinet from TRM Guitar Cabinets and fired it up. For now, it is the DSL Combo with a Chinese Celestion Vintage 30 on the top and an USA Emminence Swamp Thang on the bottom. Haven't quite figured out how it will be finished yet or what color or texture of grill cloth to use. 

The most important thing right now is there is sound coming out of it!


----------



## BanditPanda

Well done ! Here's hoping it is a great sound!


----------



## nevermind

BanditPanda said:


> Well done



Thank you and I hope the same for your new set up! Pics please!


----------



## nevermind

BanditPanda said:


> Here's hoping it is a great sound!


So far, with just the V30, I can get all the punchy, gritty, tight gain I want. Adding the Thiele added LOTS of girth. Dial in your gain level, add volume to taste and you have a nice solid thump and well-defined, edgy distortion. The only drawback so far is the sound level. It's quite loud!!!!!

I have been playing around with running the volume much lower and using a TS9 tube screamer and a Boss GE7 EQ pedal. Both are shaping up to be viable options for maintaining all the texture, whilst preserving my ears and some semblance of peace with the neighbors.

I hope to see good reports about your new setup!!!


----------



## J.LaGrassa

nevermind said:


> Congrats! Just got my extra-width Theile cabinet from TRM Guitar Cabinets and fired it up. For now, it is the DSL Combo with a Chinese V30 on the top and an Emminence Swamp Thang on the bottom. Haven't figured out how it will be finished yet or what kind of grill cloth to use... Important thing right now is there is sound coming out of it!
> View attachment 43151




I've been pretty happy with my added cab from Seismic Audio, really adds a lot of depth to the tone. I bought a 2nd cab to keep at home or for when i convert my combo to a head I can stack the two 1x12's!


----------



## rlowe

I have the Marshall dsl40c with the Marshall mx1x12 cab ext. sitting on top. For night practice I use my Marshall dsl5c which sounds great except I have to use headphones. The headphones I use have been in the $100.00 range, and currently I use $100.00 Marshall headphones. The sound quality of course is not like an open 12" speaker would sound. Definitely needs a quality boost. Does anyone have any experience, or any suggestions as to a good set of headphones that will replicate an open speaker sound? Thanks


----------



## BanditPanda

nevermind said:


> Thank you and I hope the same for your new set up! Pics please!



Ask and ye shall receive lol. Perhaps the first pics of a DSL40CV head ever!! lol You saw it here first !!!
Just got it back to day from my tech ( Chester V) and am over joyed with the results.
What a fine piece of work.
This is part one of "The Project" which is why the amp is currently sitting on a Blackheart 1x12 cab (closed back ) loaded with an Eminence Red,White & Blues.
Next part will be 2 x 12 cabs fit to the dims of the head.
Sounds excellent but am not used to the closed back sound, of course being used to the combo.
For the 2 x 12 will do one closed and one open I'm thinking.
Speakers yet to be decided.
BP


----------



## BanditPanda

BanditPanda said:


> Ask and ye shall receive lol. Perhaps the first pics of a DSL40CV head ever!! lol You saw it here first !!!
> Just got it back to day from my tech ( Chester V) and am over joyed with the results.
> What a fine piece of work.
> This is part one of "The Project" which is why the amp is currently sitting on a Blackheart 1x12 cab (closed back ) loaded with an Eminence Red,White & Blues.
> Next part will be 2 x 12 cabs fit to the dims of the head.
> Sounds excellent but am not used to the closed back sound, of course being used to the combo.
> For the 2 x 12 will do one closed and one open I'm thinking.
> Speakers yet to be decided.
> BP
> View attachment 43167


----------



## Angus Rhoads

rlowe said:


> I have the Marshall dsl40c with the Marshall mx1x12 cab ext. sitting on top. For night practice I use my Marshall dsl5c which sounds great except I have to use headphones. The headphones I use have been in the $100.00 range, and currently I use $100.00 Marshall headphones. The sound quality of course is not like an open 12" speaker would sound. Definitely needs a quality boost. Does anyone have any experience, or any suggestions as to a good set of headphones that will replicate an open speaker sound? Thanks


Are your headphones open or closed back? That makes a big difference in your perception of "space" around the sound.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

BanditPanda said:


> Ask and ye shall receive lol. Perhaps the first pics of a DSL40CV head ever!! lol You saw it here first !!!
> Just got it back to day from my tech ( Chester V) and am over joyed with the results.
> What a fine piece of work.
> This is part one of "The Project" which is why the amp is currently sitting on a Blackheart 1x12 cab (closed back ) loaded with an Eminence Red,White & Blues.
> Next part will be 2 x 12 cabs fit to the dims of the head.
> Sounds excellent but am not used to the closed back sound, of course being used to the combo.
> For the 2 x 12 will do one closed and one open I'm thinking.
> Speakers yet to be decided.
> BP


Very cool BP!
I like closed-back for high gain metal kind of stuff because the bass stays tighter, but for classic rock I actually prefer open back, fills the room and sounds bigger, but at the expense of a looser bottom end. Closed back tends to focus the sound into a narrower cone and usually only sounds best if you're listening from within that cone. If you're going 2x12, parallel vs series wiring makes a subtle difference too.


----------



## BanditPanda

Angus Rhoads said:


> Very cool BP!
> I like closed-back for high gain metal kind of stuff because the bass stays tighter, but for classic rock I actually prefer open back, fills the room and sounds bigger, but at the expense of a looser bottom end. Closed back tends to focus the sound into a narrower cone and usually only sounds best if you're listening from within that cone. If you're going 2x12, parallel vs series wiring makes a subtle difference too.



Thanks for the tips Angus so what do you think about doing 1 x 12 open back and 1 x 12 closed back.?


----------



## Angus Rhoads

BanditPanda said:


> Thanks for the tips Angus so what do you think about doing 1 x 12 open back and 1 x 12 closed back.?


Hmmmmm, never tried that! Interesting idea though. Thinking of mixing different speakers?


----------



## rlowe

Angus Rhoads said:


> Are your headphones open or closed back? That makes a big difference in your perception of "space" around the sound.


Marshall headphones are the closed back Major II's.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

rlowe said:


> Marshall headphones are the closed back Major II's.


Might want to try open or semi-open back. I have a pair of AKG K204 Studios, semi-open back design, that I sometimes use with the headphone output on my JMD combo and they sound really good. They were $100 years ago but nowadays they can be had for under $70.


----------



## BanditPanda

Angus Rhoads said:


> Hmmmmm, never tried that! Interesting idea though. Thinking of mixing different speakers?



Yes however undecided on where to go with those choices. Are there speakers that perform better in closed back and others that perform better in open back.?
Jeebus that would make the selection even more mind boggling no ?


----------



## J.LaGrassa

played an outdoor gig yesterday and the DSL40 F'n rocked and plenty loud, used it with my 1x12 extension cab with Celestion V-Type... also have the V-type in my amp. Couple of other guys used my amp with there bands so my amp was on for a good 10 hours and worked flawlessy so the reliabilty was there!!


----------



## BanditPanda

J.LaGrassa said:


> played an outdoor gig yesterday and the DSL40 F'n rocked and plenty loud, used it with my 1x12 extension cab with Celestion V-Type... also have the V-type in my amp. Couple of other guys used my amp with there bands so my amp was on for a good 10 hours and worked flawlessy so the reliabilty was there!!



Great to hear J! So you're using 2 x V types.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

BanditPanda said:


> Great to hear J! So you're using 2 x V types.



Yeah, I've tried a several speakers and I gel with the V-Types the most


----------



## nevermind

BanditPanda said:


> Are there speakers that perform better in closed back and others that perform better in open back? Jeebus that would make the selection even more mind boggling, no?



Analysis paralysis comes to mind when my brain starts spinnning like this!!!  I wish you well with your journey through that valley.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

BanditPanda said:


> Yes however undecided on where to go with those choices. Are there speakers that perform better in closed back and others that perform better in open back.?
> Jeebus that would make the selection even more mind boggling no ?


Oof! Endless possibilities, man. You can easily drive yourself crazy, LOL.
I will say that I briefly had a TSLC212 cab (which is now the JVMC212) that I gigged a few times and really liked (sadly it got half-destroyed in a tranporting mishap). Open back, with Marshall versions of a V30 and G12-65 wired in series. It's the setup Marshall has used and still uses for most of their 2x12 tube combos. Tried & true, you know what I mean? Something in the neighborhood of that setup might be a good place to start.


----------



## BanditPanda

Tried and true is the way to go.
Thanks Angus.
BP


----------



## BanditPanda

nevermind said:


> Analysis paralysis comes to mind when my brain starts spinnning like this!!!  I wish you well with your journey through that valley.




Well I do have to take the expenditure into consideration so rather than go lets say Celestion I will prolly go WGS at essentially half the price.
I am already familiar with their ET65 which I like so I'm thinking I will pair it with their Retro 30.
BP


----------



## Angus Rhoads

BanditPanda said:


> Tried and true is the way to go.
> Thanks Angus.
> BP


Check out the Sourmash 1936, you can configure it where you can do either open or closed back.

If you're doing ET65, a good pairing might be their British Lead, which is like a CL80.


----------



## ken361

Stuck a older Sovtek LPS in the PI slot man that open the sound up and its loud as hell! I had the stock marshall in and the 70/80. I don't find the 7080 bright it was kinda dull. The ET 65 has more top end and mids for sure which makes it louder also plus the new Ruby EL34B a supposedly higher gain tube. I always liked the LPS in my other amps that I had, might have to order a fresh one. Also running the EP boost at 15 volts that fattens the red channel up some


----------



## BanditPanda

Angus Rhoads said:


> Check out the Sourmash 1936, you can configure it where you can do either open or closed back.
> 
> If you're doing ET65, a good pairing might be their British Lead, which is like a CL80.



Thanks. I'll check out the British Lead.
I'll be wanting 2 x 1 x12 cabs as opposed to 1 x 2 x 12 cab.


----------



## nevermind

BanditPanda said:


> Well I do have to take the expenditure into consideration so rather than go lets say Celestion I will prolly go WGS at essentially half the price.
> I am already familiar with their ET65 which I like so I'm thinking I will pair it with their Retro 30.
> BP



Absolutely understand, you have to get the job done and asking questions is generally really helpful. I like another speaker and a 1/2 price Celestion V30 sounds interesting, I'll have to do more reading on WGS.

FWIW, I was just referring to the slippery slope I fall down way too often...


----------



## rlowe

ken361 said:


> Stuck a older Sovtek LPS in the PI slot man that open the sound up and its loud as hell! I had the stock marshall in and the 70/80. I don't find the 7080 bright it was kinda dull. The ET 65 has more top end and mids for sure which makes it louder also plus the new Ruby EL34B a supposedly higher gain tube. I always liked the LPS in my other amps that I had, might have to order a fresh one. Also running the EP boost at 15 volts that fattens the red channel up some


The 70/80 comes stock with the Marshall MX112 ext. cab. I have a Celestion Vintage 30 in the dsl40c, and by comparison the 70/80 has a decent higher frequency sound. The V30 has a fuller frequency spectrum giving the blend of the two a nice sound. Sometimes you get what you pay for! I find Doug's preamp tube recommendation for the dsl40c right on.


----------



## ken361

rlowe said:


> View attachment 43187
> 
> The 70/80 comes stock with the Marshall MX112 ext. cab. I have a Celestion Vintage 30 in the dsl40c, and by comparison the 70/80 has a decent higher frequency sound. The V30 has a fuller frequency spectrum giving the blend of the two a nice sound. Sometimes you get what you pay for! I find Doug's preamp tube recommendation for the dsl40c right on.


Stock speaker was real bright with the stock's high bias settings 39/41 I used for 8 months then I changed to WGS and that warmed it up then later I set the bias 36, 34 and new tubes and so on 2 1/2 years later then at 32 now. The ET is much louder prb due to the magnet and voice coil


----------



## BanditPanda

Got this problem wherein I used to play Peavey Bandit & Fender Blues Deluxe and swapped out stock speakers for the Eminence Red White & Blues and the WGS ET65.
Problem being they are both 8 ohm speakers.
Now with the desire to build 2 / 1 x 12 cabs for the CV head I have to go out and buy 2 x 16 ohm speakers. Of course I could use the 70/80 from the combo and would need to buy only 1 speaker. Some players on this board do say that once the 70/80 is broken in it sounds fine.
Unless there is a solution to my dilema? (whether it be wiring or some kind of ohm conversion box? )


----------



## Micky

The Seventy/80 sounds pretty good in a closed back cab. 
You should at least try it.


----------



## BanditPanda

Micky said:


> The Seventy/80 sounds pretty good in a closed back cab.
> You should at least try it.



You're right Micky and I will.\Is there no solution to my ohm problem ? Wiring or ohm conversion box?


----------



## Angus Rhoads

BanditPanda said:


> You're right Micky and I will.\Is there no solution to my ohm problem ? Wiring or ohm conversion box?


Only way you can use two 8ohm speakers with the 40C is to wire them in series to produce a 16ohm load. If you run two separate 8ohm cabs then you're in a parallel situation which won't work with that combo (you'd need two 4ohm taps).

I don't know of any converter that would change the impedance, but maybe something like that exists. I think at that point you're starting to overcomplicate things, though.


----------



## BanditPanda

Angus Rhoads said:


> Only way you can use two 8ohm speakers with the 40C is to wire them in series to produce a 16ohm load. If you run two separate 8ohm cabs then you're in a parallel situation which won't work with that combo (you'd need two 4ohm taps).
> 
> I don't know of any converter that would change the impedance, but maybe something like that exists. I think at that point you're starting to overcomplicate things, though.




OK thanks Angus. Over complicating things is my modus operandi !


----------



## Angus Rhoads

BanditPanda said:


> OK thanks Angus. Over complicating things is my modus operandi !


I've lived in that neighborhood too, bro. 

Even daisy-chaining the cabs would be parallel, so I can't really figure a way around that one unless someone makes some kind of series lead, maybe?


----------



## nevermind

For fun and games I tried the Emminence Swamp Thang in my DSL40c this afternoon. I couldn't crank it up but will tomorrow. At quiet, practice level volumes it sounded pretty deep with good definition. It will stay in there for now!



BanditPanda said:


> You're right Micky and I will.\Is there no solution to my ohm problem ? Wiring or ohm conversion box?



I was running two 8 ohm cabinets into the 16 ohm input jack on my Orange Head until I bought a couple 16 ohm speakers.

Here is one option:
http://procablesnsound.com/items/speaker-y-cables/power-y-adapter-70001-detail.htm

and another
http://bayoucables.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=38&products_id=94

I own both and they both work nicely. The y-cable, series, with a 90* end might be the cleanest option and the Bayou box is about the size of a hard pack box of smokes.


----------



## Micky

BanditPanda said:


> You're right Micky and I will.\Is there no solution to my ohm problem ? Wiring or ohm conversion box?


You can build (maybe purchase?) a special cable that will combine both speakers into a series load...


----------



## nevermind

Micky said:


> You can build (maybe purchase?) a special cable that will combine both speakers into a series load...



Two purchase options in my post....


----------



## BanditPanda

nevermind said:


> For fun and games I tried the Emminence Swamp Thang in my DSL40c this afternoon. I couldn't crank it up but will tomorrow. At quiet, practice level volumes it sounded pretty deep with good definition. It will stay in there for now!
> 
> 
> 
> I was running two 8 ohm cabinets into the 16 ohm input jack on my Orange Head until I bought a couple 16 ohm speakers.
> 
> Here is one option:
> http://procablesnsound.com/items/speaker-y-cables/power-y-adapter-70001-detail.htm
> 
> and another
> http://bayoucables.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=38&products_id=94
> 
> I own both and they both work nicely. The y-cable, series, with a 90* end might be the cleanest option and the Bayou box is about the size of a hard pack box of smokes.



Beautiful !! Thanks NM. Now to use either of those with my DSL40CV head and 2 x 1 x12 will any re wiring be required?


----------



## Angus Rhoads

nevermind said:


> For fun and games I tried the Emminence Swamp Thang in my DSL40c this afternoon. I couldn't crank it up but will tomorrow. At quiet, practice level volumes it sounded pretty deep with good definition. It will stay in there for now!
> 
> 
> 
> I was running two 8 ohm cabinets into the 16 ohm input jack on my Orange Head until I bought a couple 16 ohm speakers.
> 
> Here is one option:
> http://procablesnsound.com/items/speaker-y-cables/power-y-adapter-70001-detail.htm
> 
> and another
> http://bayoucables.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=38&products_id=94
> 
> I own both and they both work nicely. The y-cable, series, with a 90* end might be the cleanest option and the Bayou box is about the size of a hard pack box of smokes.


I'm gonna have to try one of these!


----------



## nevermind

BanditPanda said:


> Beautiful !! Thanks NM. Now to use either of those with my DSL40CV head and 2 x 1 x12 will any re wiring be required?



Glad I could help!

If you have two 8 ohm 1x12 cabinets, no wiring required. Plug your speaker cables in the female jacks on the cable and then plug the male end into the single 16 ohm port on the your newly created DSL40H. The box is marked for the speaker ports and the single port to patch to the head.

FWIW, the box got to my house sooner than the Y cable but I use the Y cable more.

One note and I'm not sure anyone wants to play this game!!! I did put one 8 ohm cabinet and one 16 ohm cabinet in series with the cable for a total resistance of right around 20-22 ohm (measured resistance). This was plugged into the 16 ohm port on my Orange head. My understanding is you can go with a slightly higher resistance but going lower is generally not advised. The warnings I read were to make sure resistance does not exceed the port rating by more than 50%. So I guessed plugging no more than 24 ohms into the 16 ohm amp output to be completely acceptable. Please note, I said acceptable and not optimal.


----------



## BanditPanda

Gotcha ! Thanks a lot man ! Appreciate it.
BP


----------



## Bownse

Micky said:


> The Seventy/80 sounds pretty good in a closed back cab.
> You should at least try it.



When I broke out my 40C into a head/cab set, I made the cab closed back (2x12) and put the 70/80 along with my 75w Creamback in it. The two together (along with the closed back) work very well.


----------



## rlowe

Bandit, I was having trouble loading pic elsewhere, so here is a top pic. The cab is square and not skewed!


----------



## BanditPanda

Bownse said:


> When I broke out my 40C into a head/cab set, I made the cab closed back (2x12) and put the 70/80 along with my 75w Creamback in it. The two together (along with the closed back) work very well.



Thanks for that Bownse! That is encouraging. Looks like opinion has it that the 70/80 may sound better in a closed back environment. Very interesting.


----------



## BanditPanda

rlowe said:


> Bandit, I was having trouble loading pic elsewhere, so here is a top pic. The cab is square and not skewed!



Thank you for doing that Rowe. Looks pretty darn good. The 40DSL head sitting on top of the MX would not look out of place or odd / oversized at all.


----------



## assaf110

nevermind said:


> One note and I'm not sure anyone wants to play this game!!! I did put one 8 ohm cabinet and one 16 ohm cabinet in series with the cable for a total resistance of right around 20-22 ohm (measured resistance). This was plugged into the 16 ohm port on my Orange head. My understanding is you can go with a slightly higher resistance but going lower is generally not advised. The warnings I read were to make sure resistance does not exceed the port rating by more than 50%. So I guessed plugging no more than 24 ohms into the 16 ohm amp output to be completely acceptable. Please note, I said acceptable and not optimal.



Dude, how did you measure?
Impedance, which is the value on the speakers outputs, does not equals Resistance (which is what you measure with a meter with no voltage in the circuit). So your assumption is simply not correct (even thought the Impedance value wouldn't be too far off).


----------



## Micky

assaf110 said:


> Dude, how did you measure?
> Impedance, which is the value on the speakers outputs, does not equals Resistance (which is what you measure with a meter with no voltage in the circuit). So your assumption is simply not correct (even thought the Impedance value wouldn't be too far off).


Note that he did say measured resistance...
Never once did he state (maybe he did imply) impedance.

While you are both reasonably correct, it is always best to match speakers to the amp...


----------



## nevermind

assaf110 said:


> Dude, how did you measure?
> Impedance, which is the value on the speakers outputs, does not equals Resistance (which is what you measure with a meter with no voltage in the circuit). So your assumption is simply not correct (even thought the Impedance value wouldn't be too far off).



Do we know each other? 

FWIW, I do like your last sentence. The reading is close enough for government work AND if you take the manufacturer's rating, the nominal impedance value would be 24 ohms. I offered up the measurement to just let folks know the value got bigger when using the series cable. If I can plug a 16 ohm speaker in the 16 ohm output port, I should be ok plugging a device with less than 50% more than that in the same hole.



Micky said:


> Note that he did say measured resistance...
> Never once did he state (maybe he did imply) impedance.
> 
> While you are both reasonably correct, it is always best to match speakers to the amp...



Acceptable and not optimal were both used in the wording of that nonsense! I was just trying to demonstrate my exceptional understanding of Ohm's Law and resistance in series using a VOM. I try not to imply anything although English is a doggone strange language.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

nevermind said:


> Do we know each other?
> 
> FWIW, I do like your last sentence. The reading is close enough for government work AND if you take the manufacturer's rating, the nominal impedance value would be 24 ohms. I offered up the measurement to just let folks know the value got bigger when using the series cable. If I can plug a 16 ohm speaker in the 16 ohm output port, I should be ok plugging a device with less than 50% more than that in the same hole.
> 
> 
> 
> Acceptable and not optimal were both used in the wording of that nonsense! I was just trying to demonstrate my exceptional understanding of Ohm's Law and resistance in series using a VOM. I try not to imply anything although English is a doggone strange language.


LOL, this reminded me of that Slim Pickens line in Blazing Saddles: "You use your tongue prettier than a $20 whore."


----------



## assaf110

no


----------



## nevermind

assaf110 said:


> no



Roger that  What can I say, humor is very tough to convey at times...


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Ordered my Head cab from Stage Craft today, cant wait to load the DSL40 into it but it's going to be about 4 weeks before I get it!


----------



## rlowe

I emailed Marshall about what cleaner to use for mysterious black smudges that were appearing on the gold eq plate on front of amp. The smudges were not caused by dirty hands (minor), or anything else, merely finger contact over time. They said they were not quite sure what was causing it, and to send them a picture of the smudges. I experimented with a little WD-40 and the smudges disappeared. The amp now looks as good as new! You can see the previous black smudges and finger marks on page 417 where I posted a picture of my amp.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

rlowe said:


> I emailed Marshall about what cleaner to use for mysterious black smudges that were appearing on the gold eq plate on front of amp. The smudges were not caused by dirty hands (minor), or anything else, merely finger contact over time. They said they were not quite sure what was causing it, and to send them a picture of the smudges. I experimented with a little WD-40 and the smudges disappeared. The amp now looks as good as new! You can see the previous black smudges and finger marks on page 417 where I posted a picture of my amp.



I believe it's from the oils in your fingers that get on that finish, I see it on my amp as well... thanks for the tip on cleaning it with WD-40.


----------



## Bownse

The aerosol carrier might attack the finish over time. It evaporates but before it does...

WD-40 is a water diplacement product; not a lube or cleaner.


----------



## rlowe

WD-40 lists on can Lubricates, contains petroleum distillates. It also displaces moisture and is flammable. Here is a link to over 2000 uses for the product. http://www.wisebread.com/almost-2000-uses-for-a-can-of-wd-40-1 Here is WD-40's 2000 uses https://wd40.com/files/pdf/wd_40_2000_uses_updated_jan_2017.pdf


----------



## Bownse

Marketing aside.

WD40 attracts dust and grit and will make lubed joints and bearing (and locks) gummy over time. Use something like an aerosol spray silocone lube which leaves behind the dry lube when the carrier evaporates.

Take it from someone with with many miles (and years) of personal maint on motorcycles, cars, etc. that WD40 can create long term problems you thought you were trying to fix. I've known too many people faced with replacing ignition locks because they failed after religious use of WD40.

There are many references with the details. This was the first that came up with the Google Search: Is WD40 a lubricant?

http://lifehacker.com/5891936/when-should-i-not-use-wd-40

A more substantive source is Popular Mechanics

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/how-to/a6064/wd-40-vs-the-world-of-lubricants/

OTOH: Duct tape really is as good as everyone thinks it is.


----------



## GibsonKramer

WD-40, is a temporary, typically messy, but effective fix.

The new silicone based stuff, is far superior.

Though, I always have a can of WD-40.


----------



## MarshallDog

I would NOT use any silicone type products or products with ammonia in them on the face plate of a Marshall amp. It is a sure way to damage the lettering on them and I'm talking from experience. WD-40 works good but better yet is Simple Green. It really cleans but does not have any of these to products in it and DOES NOT affect/hurt the lettering...I speak from experience specific to Marshall face plates.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Any of you guys try the Wampler Tumnus OD? I Just got one that was slightly used but have only got to try it with a cheap Crate Powerblock head and it actually makes that head sound real good, will get to try it with the DSL40 tonight where I jam but I have a good feeling this pedal is going to make the amp sing. It's got a very nice open sound to it with no low end loss, this is essentially Wamplers take on a Klon... I want to use this to push the Crunch and Lead channel for just that little extra gain.


----------



## ken361

Thought about it J. I have a Belle Epoch echoplex delay coming monday i cant wait to try it im sure your pedal should work good, great clean boost prb.


----------



## BanditPanda

J.LaGrassa said:


> Any of you guys try the Wampler Tumnus OD? I Just got one that was slightly used but have only got to try it with a cheap Crate Powerblock head and it actually makes that head sound real good, will get to try it with the DSL40 tonight where I jam but I have a good feeling this pedal is going to make the amp sing. It's got a very nice open sound to it with no low end loss, this is essentially Wamplers take on a Klon... I want to use this to push the Crunch and Lead channel for just that little extra gain.




Yes I have one. Not on my board. Couldn't find a happy spot with my LP. Seems to be a very dark pedal. Most demo's seem to use single coils with it.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

BanditPanda said:


> Yes I have one. Not on my board. Couldn't find a happy spot with my LP. Seems to be a very dark pedal. Most demo's seem to use single coils with it.



I will find out tonight but at home it was not dark sounding with my SG, the speaker in my other cab is a G12H30 70th Anniversary. Were you using it as a boost or did you have the gain set up high, I will most likely have the gain set low and volume set high just to fatten up the tone.


----------



## rlowe

J.LaGrassa said:


> Any of you guys try the Wampler Tumnus OD? I Just got one that was slightly used but have only got to try it with a cheap Crate Powerblock head and it actually makes that head sound real good, will get to try it with the DSL40 tonight where I jam but I have a good feeling this pedal is going to make the amp sing. It's got a very nice open sound to it with no low end loss, this is essentially Wamplers take on a Klon... I want to use this to push the Crunch and Lead channel for just that little extra gain.


I have a Archer red knob which is the closest pedal you can get to the Klon. The Archer was designed by one of the original Klon designer's. It has a lot of pep, and treble much loud compared to my Rothwell Hellbender which gives a darker yet even eq'd Overdrive sound. I have never tried the Wampler, maybe have heard it in reviews.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

rlowe said:


> I have a Archer red knob which is the closest pedal you can get to the Klon. The Archer was designed by one of the original Klon designer's. It has a lot of pep, and treble much loud compared to my Rothwell Hellbender which gives a darker yet even eq'd Overdrive sound. I have never tried the Wampler, maybe have heard it in reviews.



Cool, I'm new to the whole Klon thing so I have no experience with others. The Tumnus worked nicely last night into my Crunch channel set for mild break up, I found I didnt use it as much as I anticipated the Marshall does most of what I like with out.


----------



## BanditPanda

J.LaGrassa said:


> I will find out tonight but at home it was not dark sounding with my SG, the speaker in my other cab is a G12H30 70th Anniversary. Were you using it as a boost or did you have the gain set up high, I will most likely have the gain set low and volume set high just to fatten up the tone.



J...just using it as a regular O/D pedal. Not high gain. I've got the Xotic BB Pre in place of the Tumnus for the time being.


----------



## BanditPanda

J.LaGrassa said:


> Cool, I'm new to the whole Klon thing so I have no experience with others. The Tumnus worked nicely last night into my Crunch channel set for mild break up, I found I didnt use it as much as I anticipated the Marshall does most of what I like with out.




J...if you have time & feel like it try the Tumnus in Green & Clean & let me know what you think.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

BanditPanda said:


> J...if you have time & feel like it try the Tumnus in Green & Clean & let me know what you think.



I tried the Green Clean for about a minute with the Tumnus last night it was not bad but I never use the Green Clean I prefer it with the Crunch on and gain set low to about 9-10:00, The Tumnus sounds very good in that mode. I haven't had my amp home for a few weeks, when I convert it to a head which will be soon I will start bringing it back home.


----------



## GibsonKramer

OK, well my Vintage 30 finally broke in, and wow. It's a completely different amp.

I gotta be honest, I was kind of disappointed at times, when I'd switch from DSL, to the Jubilee. The 2553, is setup to just plug in and play. No pedals, and any guitar you pick. It just sounds good. So for the last month, I've been gritting my teeth, avoiding the Jubilee, and using the cab for backing tracks.

That wasn't my former experience with the DSL40C. Half my LPs were tested on a DSL40. Like I said though, that thing was worn in. My brand new amp... sounds like something else. In fact, it reminded me of the JVM1C, which I do not like, at all. Love the JVM. Hate that little combo. Sounds like a buzzsaw to me.

However, I just got a new dog, thanks to my daughter and a freak thunderstorm. A young bully boxer. Looks mean as Hell, heart of gold. Someone I suspect had chained him to a fence...

Well, he's living the good life now. Just still trying to adjust to all the other dogs and cats. But, I digress...

Haven't played my guitars, in at least a week. But, I had noticed the V30 voice, was starting to change. It was picking up the growl, is what it is. Gets a little deeper, and develops a nice good thump.

Usually after I take a few days break, I seem to just click a little more with my guitars. Yesterday I had stopped into GC, wanted to see some of the 2018 Gibson line they got in. I'm waiting on a Pelham Blue LP Classic (P90s!!!!). They have a really nice new SG, with mini humbuckers, that I got to play through a used DSL100, and 1960 Lead cab. It sounded, really good.

I didn't have a chance to play when I got home, but I spent a few hours in my room today. Played my Tribute (P90s), LE Standard, and one of my Customs. It was sublime. It stacked up very favorably, against it's big brother. I was considering buying the larger head, after playing it. Once I got home, broken in V30 in the combo... no thanks. The 100H, is really nice... but the 40C, holds her own.

I've also finally got the green OD channel, with my OD pedals, set the way I like... so is a nice switch up.

Personally, I like the reverb, as well.

If I were to ever start playing in a band again... I would probably be lugging that DSL around. It's that good sounding, with plenty of volume. Dang though, I wouldn't want to be placed right in front of that amp. Your ears would bleed.

Unfortunately, I walked into GC, and not only did they have a new black DSL40C, they have another cream color one!? WTH!? I wanted to be coolest 50 yo kid, on the block.


----------



## BanditPanda

Yes GK you ran into the Marshall DSL40C Limited Edition Cream.
I guess that would make it the DSL40CC.
Look forward to the pics of the Pelham Blue LP Classic !! ( when it finds it's way into your home)
BP


----------



## GibsonKramer

BanditPanda said:


> Yes GK you ran into the Marshall DSL40C Limited Edition Cream.
> I guess that would make it the DSL40CC.
> Look forward to the pics of the Pelham Blue LP Classic !! ( when it finds it's way into your home)
> BP



Yeah, I bought the first cream one they had. They were unboxing it, the day I walked in, after a month break. I told them to take it off the floor. Bought it the next day. Had a Marshall branded V30 for it, 2 days later.

However, that was the first DSL40C to come in our store, in over a year. Now they have 2... Including the same cream one, I have. Though, mine it still cooler... and broken in. 

I'm starting to Jones for the PB Classic. I might start putting a bit of pressure on my buddy. Though, I do text him every day, and ask if it came in. But, that's just to bug him, for spending my money. LOL.


----------



## rlowe

Emailed Marshall a few days ago and this is the reply they gave to me concerning the faceplate: 
USMC - Marshall Service <marshall.service@USMusicCorp.com> Hello, We would recommend using rubbing alcohol or Windex. Be very careful of the print on the faceplate so you don’t remove it as well Cheers, Kevin (Kdog) Drury Service and Support Marshall Amplification USA Eden Electronics Natal Percussion All internal electrical work must be performed by an authorized Marshall service center From: Randall Lowe [mailto: randalllowe@yahoo.com ] Sent: Monday, September 11, 2017 7:23 PM To: USMC - Marshall Service <marshall.service@USMusicCorp.com> Subject: Re: New submi
To
randalllowe@yahoo.com

Today at 2:49 PM



Hello,



We would recommend using rubbing alcohol or Windex. Be very careful of the print on the faceplate so you don’t remove it as well



Cheers,



Kevin (Kdog) Drury

Service and Support

Marshall Amplification USA

Eden Electronics

Natal Percussion


----------



## Angus Rhoads

GibsonKramer said:


> Yeah, I bought the first cream one they had. They were unboxing it, the day I walked in, after a month break. I told them to take it off the floor. Bought it the next day. Had a Marshall branded V30 for it, 2 days later.
> 
> However, that was the first DSL40C to come in our store, in over a year. Now they have 2... Including the same cream one, I have. Though, mine it still cooler... and broken in.
> 
> I'm starting to Jones for the PB Classic. I might start putting a bit of pressure on my buddy. Though, I do text him every day, and ask if it came in. But, that's just to bug him, for spending my money. LOL.


The Marshall "Vintage" breaks in nicely, I have one (8ohm version) with some gig hours on it and it's much better than when it was new - that stiffness loosens up and the upper-mid hump calms down a little, just settles into a nice thick but controlled tone that seems to somehow be one step ahead of your fingers. It's got such an immediate response to your playing dynamics that it's almost telepathic! Seems a little more forgiving in the JVM but in the DSL it just tells it like it is, there's no hiding - forces you to be on your game but damn rewarding when you get it right.


----------



## rlowe

rlowe said:


> Emailed Marshall a few days ago and this is the reply they gave to me concerning the faceplate:
> USMC - Marshall Service <marshall.service@USMusicCorp.com> Hello, We would recommend using rubbing alcohol or Windex. Be very careful of the print on the faceplate so you don’t remove it as well Cheers, Kevin (Kdog) Drury Service and Support Marshall Amplification USA Eden Electronics Natal Percussion All internal electrical work must be performed by an authorized Marshall service center From: Randall Lowe [mailto: randalllowe@yahoo.com ] Sent: Monday, September 11, 2017 7:23 PM To: USMC - Marshall Service <marshall.service@USMusicCorp.com> Subject: Re: New submi
> To
> randalllowe@yahoo.com
> 
> Today at 2:49 PM
> 
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> 
> 
> We would recommend using rubbing alcohol or Windex. Be very careful of the print on the faceplate so you don’t remove it as well
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> Kevin (Kdog) Drury
> 
> Service and Support
> 
> Marshall Amplification USA
> 
> Eden Electronics
> 
> Natal Percussion



Rlowe:
As an addendum: just a little everyday common sense is all that should be required. I tried 100% mineral oil works good, but enough of this topic!


----------



## ken361

BanditPanda said:


> Yes I have one. Not on my board. Couldn't find a happy spot with my LP. Seems to be a very dark pedal. Most demo's seem to use single coils with it.


thought you might wanna see this there close


----------



## BanditPanda

Thanks for that Ken. Yes I do appreciate the WGS ET65. It will be one of the speakers going into my DSL40 stack project. Open back and on top. Not wanting to spend more money on speakers I'll pair it with the Eminence Red,White & Blues in a closed back bottom.
I know it's weird pairing a Brit flavor speaker with an American voiced speaker but it is what it is.
BP


----------



## ken361

Might be good!


----------



## riefil

Hi guys and gals. I searched to no avail. Is the effects loop tube driven? My nephew is having effects loop issue all of a sudden. Trying to figure if its a bad tube or not.


----------



## Micky

The FX loop is not 'driven' per se, it is just stuck between the preamp section and the PI tube (V3b & V4). There is no other circuitry other than a 1K matching resistor.


----------



## riefil

Micky, so a tube should not affect the effects loop? I'm having him check for a bad cable, cleaning the contacts etc.


----------



## Micky

Absolutely check the tubes.
First thing to check when troubleshooting the FX loop is to plug a short instrument cable into the jacks to bypass the loop (same as disengaging it) to see if there is a problem there. Next is to check the pedals/cables if the loop check is OK.

If the loop check fails, check the tubes and then the FX jacks. In all reality if the amp sounds OK when the loop is disengaged via the switch, 99% of the time it is the pedals or whatever device is attached.

Good luck


----------



## GibsonKramer

For those worried about speaker costs, just watch the forums, and Reverb.

I picked up a brand spanking new Marshall "Vintage 30," for $90 shipped. Guy bought a Marshall cab with them, had other speakers he wanted in there. He recouped almost $400 selling the 4.

Good for him, and me.


----------



## riefil

Micky said:


> Absolutely check the tubes.
> First thing to check when troubleshooting the FX loop is to plug a short instrument cable into the jacks to bypass the loop (same as disengaging it) to see if there is a problem there. Next is to check the pedals/cables if the loop check is OK.
> 
> If the loop check fails, check the tubes and then the FX jacks. In all reality if the amp sounds OK when the loop is disengaged via the switch, 99% of the time it is the pedals or whatever device is attached.
> 
> Good luck


This is the route I basically told him to go. I'm sure he'll be calling on me to trouble shoot with him. As always thanks for the info.


----------



## ken361

Amp sounded great today the ruby's El34 sounded excellent. Cruch broke up really good and dynamic.


----------



## ken361

Red also echoplex pedal delay coming soon. Playing at the condo sounds so much fuller opposed to my basement.


----------



## kev67

Not been on for a bit but am debating whether to make a head out of a dls40c... Anyone done one? Is it possible to get a face plate for the job?


----------



## BanditPanda

kev67 said:


> Not been on for a bit but am debating whether to make a head out of a dls40c... Anyone done one? Is it possible to get a face plate for the job?



A few have. Here's mine.
BP


----------



## Len

kev67 said:


> Not been on for a bit but am debating whether to make a head out of a dls40c... Anyone done one? Is it possible to get a face plate for the job?


Several of us have done it. Search this form - there's a thread about it. Stagecraft now has a standard DSL40 head cab they offer.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

kev67 said:


> Not been on for a bit but am debating whether to make a head out of a dls40c... Anyone done one? Is it possible to get a face plate for the job?



Im going that route, I ordered the head cab from Stagecraft a couple of weeks ago... might be a couple more weeks before I receive it. I have a Marshall logo I also ordered on line I will install it once I get the cab in.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

well the board is starting to grow again, had to break out my NYC pedalboard


----------



## BanditPanda

J.LaGrassa said:


> well the board is starting to grow again, had to break out my NYC pedalboard



It's getting there J ! lol. Which version Polytune is that?
Is that the DD3 ? you're not running the DD and Chorus thru the FX loop?


----------



## J.LaGrassa

BanditPanda said:


> It's getting there J ! lol. Which version Polytune is that?
> Is that the DD3 ? you're not running the DD and Chorus thru the FX loop?



Polytune 2 and that is a DD3 delay, the Chorus-delay and boost are in the fx loop and Wah and tuner in the front end.


----------



## BanditPanda

J.LaGrassa said:


> Polytune 2 and that is a DD3 delay, the Chorus-delay and boost are in the fx loop and Wah and tuner in the front end.




The Spark thru front of amp did nothing to drive the front end for a bit of grit? Perhaps you're not going for that.


----------



## kev67

BanditPanda said:


> A few have. Here's mine.
> BP


Is that just a cut down cab.? Thought about doing that and regrilling a 1936.


----------



## kev67

Len said:


> Several of us have done it. Search this form - there's a thread about it. Stagecraft now has a standard DSL40 head cab they offer.


Is that a US based company?
Did anyone source the facia plate so the amp could be at the bottom of the cab?


----------



## J.LaGrassa

BanditPanda said:


> The Spark thru front of amp did nothing to drive the front end for a bit of grit? Perhaps you're not going for that.



I use it as a volume boost for leads so its perfect in the fx loop, plenty of boost and no coloration or added grit.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

kev67 said:


> Is that a US based company?
> Did anyone source the facia plate so the amp could be at the bottom of the cab?



They are a US based company!


----------



## kev67

Ah..may have a gander over here in the UK though was thinking of making one out of the head as I'm not too shabby with the old woodworking tool


----------



## J.LaGrassa

kev67 said:


> Ah..may have a gander over here in the UK though was thinking of making one out of the head as I'm not too shabby with the old woodworking tool



there was someone on Ebay that makes a raw head cab for the DSL40 for about $150, I went with Stagecraft because its completely finished plus it looks like a Marshall cab.

Here is the one that is made by Stagecraft


----------



## kev67

Nice one mate... think this will be my next project


----------



## BanditPanda

kev67 said:


> Is that just a cut down cab.? Thought about doing that and regrilling a 1936.



Confirmed. Cut down cab.
BP


----------



## Len

kev67 said:


> Is that a US based company?
> Did anyone source the facia plate so the amp could be at the bottom of the cab?


Nope, top of cab.


----------



## kev67

BanditPanda said:


> Confirmed. Cut down cab.
> BP


Did you alter the air hole on the back? 
Need to get on the laptop on here instead of the mobile lol


----------



## BanditPanda

kev67 said:


> Did you alter the air hole on the back?
> Need to get on the laptop on here instead of the mobile lol



See attached.


----------



## Bownse

http://www.fjr-tips.org/misc/amp/DSL40C_Mod/A_Project.html


----------



## kev67

BanditPanda said:


> See attached.


That's awesome mate... same as the cab cut down... cheers man


----------



## BanditPanda

kev67 said:


> That's awesome mate... same as the cab cut down... cheers man




Yes with an additional bit of space left between the amp and the back cover for additional ventilation.

Edit...well no not exactly. Take a look at the back of your DSL40C and you'll see what actually has been done i.e. the grilled protector screen has been done away with and the bottom slot moved up in it's place.

p.s. I take no credit for this build as it was my guitar tech who did the work.


----------



## BanditPanda

Bownse said:


> http://www.fjr-tips.org/misc/amp/DSL40C_Mod/A_Project.html



That's excellent Bownse. Did you put that text and pics together?
BP


----------



## Angus Rhoads

solarburnDSL50 said:


> No. As a matter of fact I will put my 70/80 against your V30 anytime. However this is for fun. Not to be a dick. But if you can ball up I will put you straight up. 5 stripperz to your door. LOL


Alright dude, here's a V30 clip (Marshall "Vintage" version) - some Em wanking on my Jackson with EMG 81 bridge pickup straight into Lead 2, Maxon AD9 delay in the loop, amp settings are in the pic. Now tell me that ain't good lead tone!


----------



## AlanH

J.LaGrassa said:


> well the board is starting to grow again, had to break out my NYC pedalboard



I don't think you need much more than that to go with a DSL40C....


----------



## kev67

BanditPanda said:


> Yes with an additional bit of space left between the amp and the back cover for additional ventilation.
> 
> Edit...well no not exactly. Take a look at the back of your DSL40C and you'll see what actually has been done i.e. the grilled protector screen has been done away with and the bottom slot moved up in it's place.
> 
> p.s. I take no credit for this build as it was my guitar tech who did the work.



How tall is the head? I googled the dimensions of the DSL100 (274mm) and saw that is way below the bottom of the valves...

Ive just started reading the 'joey mod' thread... Anyone on here done any of the mods?


----------



## kev67

On a side note... I set up my mates £50 Tanglewood TSE501 Les Paul copy and played it through the dsl... sounds way better than my Ibanez' meh


----------



## BanditPanda

kev67 said:


> How tall is the head? I googled the dimensions of the DSL100 (274mm) and saw that is way below the bottom of the valves...
> 
> Ive just started reading the 'joey mod' thread... Anyone on here done any of the mods?



Approx 24 cms.
Joey mod for sure some here have.
BP


----------



## MarshallDog

Angus Rhoads said:


> Alright dude, here's a V30 clip (Marshall "Vintage" version) - some Em wanking on my Jackson with EMG 81 bridge pickup straight into Lead 2, Maxon AD9 delay in the loop, amp settings are in the pic. Now tell me that ain't good lead tone!




Very nice sounding and great playing


----------



## kev67

BanditPanda said:


> Approx 24 cms.
> Joey mod for sure some here have.
> BP



Would these mods apply to the 40c does you know?

Mines currently stock apart from clipped c19 (i think)
Ran her through a 1960b yesterday and liked the tightened bottom end better...
As i will be doing the head conversion soon, will be waiting to hear what she sounds like through a cab before deciding if mods are needed


----------



## Angus Rhoads

MarshallDog said:


> Very nice sounding and great playing


Thanks man! I had that V30 in my 40C for a long time but having switched back & forth recently with the Heritage (G12-65) I'm really liking them both! Been meaning to pick up a new 2×12 cab, might have to pair them back up.


----------



## MarshallDog

Angus Rhoads said:


> Thanks man! I had that V30 in my 40C for a long time but having switched back & forth recently with the Heritage (G12-65) I'm really liking them both! Been meaning to pick up a new 2×12 cab, might have to pair them back up.



Just curious, what were your tone and volume knobs set on your guitar???


----------



## Angus Rhoads

MarshallDog said:


> Just curious, what were your tone and volume knobs set on your guitar???


For that recording it was volume & tone full up. That Jackson DK1 + EMG81 combination is actually kind of dark sounding, not nearly as bright as my Les Pauls. The bottom end stays nice and tight, though, and plays really nicely with the Lead 2 channel.


----------



## MarshallDog

Angus Rhoads said:


> For that recording it was volume & tone full up. That Jackson DK1 + EMG81 combination is actually kind of dark sounding, not nearly as bright as my Les Pauls. The bottom end stays nice and tight, though, and plays really nicely with the Lead 2 channel.



Wow, both maxed, I thought it sounded a bit darker BUT great. I usually run my LPS's on the bridge volume at 10ish and tone at 5-6. Sounds great!!!


----------



## Angus Rhoads

MarshallDog said:


> Wow, both maxed, I thought it sounded a bit darker BUT great. I usually run my LPS's on the bridge volume at 10ish and tone at 5-6. Sounds great!!!


It's great for that gainy 80s shreddy stuff, but not so hot for stuff like AC/DC or Zep tho.

That recording was done with my phone - not bad but it does distort the high end a little, sounded smoother than that in person.


----------



## solarburn

Angus Rhoads said:


> Alright dude, here's a V30 clip (Marshall "Vintage" version) - some Em wanking on my Jackson with EMG 81 bridge pickup straight into Lead 2, Maxon AD9 delay in the loop, amp settings are in the pic. Now tell me that ain't good lead tone!




Ok...let me make some calls...strippers be over Saturday night...

That shit sounded good. Served piping hot too. Yeah I'm gonna have to work some magic on mine and see if I can moJoe up someting...again. 

Nice clippage Angy!


----------



## J.LaGrassa

AlanH said:


> I don't think you need much more than that to go with a DSL40C....



I agree


----------



## Angus Rhoads

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Ok...let me make some calls...strippers be over Saturday night...
> 
> That shit sounded good. Served piping hot too. Yeah I'm gonna have to work some magic on mine and see if I can moJoe up someting...again.
> 
> Nice clippage Angy!


Rock on my man, I'll make sure the wife gets a "night out" with her friends on Saturday... LOL

Seriously, though, I think when people get freaked out about the 40C being bright/harsh it's because they're hearing that out-of-the-box speaker with no hours on it. Every thing I've thrown in there has been well worn-in and sounds great, I don't see any need for mods, snipped caps, hardware upgrades, etc.


----------



## BanditPanda

AlanH said:


> I don't think you need much more than that to go with a DSL40C....



Alan..that would all depend on what you need/want from the amp.
For example I have on my board the Catlinbread SFT V1. Pedal emulates the Ampeg SVT bass amp which the Stones were using '69 - '72. I use this pedal for their '69 MSG performance (GYYYO) and their '72 Brussels performance.
I use the Marvel FX for a super Plexi sound, the Exotic BB Pre for my Rev. Willie sounds and a Barber LTD a for real nice and light break up not to mention the Analogman Beano treble boost and the EH LPB for that special juice lol.
All this thru the DSL40CV Classic Clean Channel with Gain on 10.
Run the usual time based effects thru the loop.
So there ya go. Although the DSL40C has it's detractors the amp certainly makes me happy.
It performs admirably with pedals.
BP
p.s. Sorry for the novel. I just love talking 'bout this shaite lol


----------



## solarburn

Angus Rhoads said:


> Seriously, though, I think when people get freaked out about the 40C being bright/harsh it's because they're hearing that out-of-the-box speaker with no hours on it. Every thing I've thrown in there has been well worn-in and sounds great, I don't see any need for mods, snipped caps, hardware upgrades, etc.



Exactly!


----------



## Angus Rhoads

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Exactly!


Same with the way people say Lead 2 is "un-useable" or whatever - yeah, like if you run the gain at 10 maybe, otherwise it sounds pretty damn useable to me! LOL


----------



## solarburn

Angus Rhoads said:


> Same with the way people say Lead 2 is "un-useable" or whatever - yeah, like if you run the gain at 10 maybe, otherwise it sounds pretty damn useable to me! LOL



No shit! I use L2 for blues to rock and hard rock. I can even roll off to clean. Now i dont do any heavy modern tones but i could.

Lately i have at least 3 solid gain tones. One is on green crunch with my Marvel drive then straight in to L1 or L2 based on what i need. All 3 i roll off to cleans. 

Most of the time this amp at most is a 2 channel amp the way i set it. There are all kinds of ways to get the goods here. Im at home with a 1 channel amp. I get this bitch to deliver on green and red same EQ and no mods.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

solarburnDSL50 said:


> No shit! I use L2 for blues to rock and hard rock. I can even roll off to clean. Now i dont do any heavy modern tones but i could.
> 
> Lately i have at least 3 solid gain tones. One is on green crunch with my Marvel drive then straight in to L1 or L2 based on what i need. All 3 i roll off to cleans.
> 
> Most of the time this amp at most is a 2 channel amp the way i set it. There are all kinds of ways to get the goods here. Im at home with a 1 channel amp. I get this bitch to deliver on green and red same EQ and no mods.


Yep, with my Les Pauls with all the pickup/volume/tone combinations I can get a lot of different sounds and the shared EQ doesn't really bug me. Actually, at lower volumes I get better Angus/Page tones by rolling back my guitar volume on Lead 1 than using Crunch because the Green channel needs to be cranked to get that growl & sustain.


----------



## ken361

Man this new delay sound great with the echoplex preamp it realy makes the red channel sound good it has a nice warmth sound to it on the red channel. Aka Vanhalen Led Zeppelin used the original EP3.


----------



## BanditPanda

ken361 said:


> Man this new delay sound great with the echoplex preamp it real makes the red channel sound good it has a nice warmth sound to it on the red channel. Aka Vanhalen Led Zeppelin used the original EP3.



Can't go wrong with Catalinbread, Ken


----------



## solarburn

Hey bros i got one of my best buds to get a DSL40 with Creamback from SW and I got to hear him Play 4 Cable method. He sounded great!

He Plays Out and his girl sings quite good I may add. He Sounded excellent. Both did.


----------



## BanditPanda

SB.. I'm gonna have to google 4 Cable method.


----------



## BanditPanda

BanditPanda said:


> SB.. I'm gonna have to google 4 Cable method.



OK Got it. He was using a multi effects board like a POD HD / BOSS / Fractal etc., etc.,


----------



## BanditPanda

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Hey bros i got my my best bud to get a DSL40 with Creamback from SW and I got to hear him Play 4 Cable method. He sounded great!
> 
> He Plays Out and his girl sings quite good I may add. He Sounded excellent. Both did.



He was very happy with the DSL40C then?


----------



## Angus Rhoads

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Hey bros i got my my best bud to get a DSL40 with Creamback from SW and I got to hear him Play 4 Cable method. He sounded great!
> 
> He Plays Out and his girl sings quite good I may add. He Sounded excellent. Both did.


What do you think of that Creamback? That's one speaker I haven't tried yet.


----------



## ken361

BanditPanda said:


> Can't go wrong with Catalinbread, Ken


Crunch channel next week loud


----------



## solarburn

BanditPanda said:


> He was very happy with the DSL40C then?




Loves it!


----------



## solarburn

Angus Rhoads said:


> What do you think of that Creamback? That's one speaker I haven't tried yet.



Sounds real good. I only played it briefly though. And it was in a bigger room so my ears needed to adjust compared to my room acoustics. Ill be Getting more time on it soon i hope.


----------



## solarburn

WTF! Am I the only one home on a Saturday night and on here?

Where you guyz at?LOL


----------



## solarburn

BanditPanda said:


> OK Got it. He was using a multi effects board like a POD HD / BOSS / Fractal etc., etc.,



He got the Boss GT 100.


----------



## AlanH

solarburnDSL50 said:


> No shit! I use L2 for blues to rock and hard rock. I can even roll off to clean. Now i dont do any heavy modern tones but i could.
> 
> Lately i have at least 3 solid gain tones. One is on green crunch with my Marvel drive then straight in to L1 or L2 based on what i need. All 3 i roll off to cleans.
> 
> Most of the time this amp at most is a 2 channel amp the way i set it. There are all kinds of ways to get the goods here. Im at home with a 1 channel amp. I get this bitch to deliver on green and red same EQ and no mods.



Stop press. The DSL40C, unmodded, can be used effectively as a two channel amp.

After 8437 posts and 422 pages who would have thought it?


----------



## kev67

Went into my local guitar shop yesterday here in th UK and then owner was on about the Marshall rep had been in saying that the new dsls would be out in October here. 750 English pounds for the 40..


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Angus Rhoads said:


> What do you think of that Creamback? That's one speaker I haven't tried yet.



There good speakers but its all preference I tried 3 of the different creambacks and i liked them but not enough to keep them, something about the Celestion V-Type i just like better.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Got another OD to try it's the Xotic AC Booster and will get to try it out tonight but so far it sounds great at home into a slightly pushed amp, I like the fact that it has Bass and Treble controls to really fine tune it to the amp.


----------



## BanditPanda

solarburnDSL50 said:


> WTF! Am I the only one home on a Saturday night and on here?
> 
> Where you guyz at?LOL



To quote the immortal Sam Cooke

Another Saturday night and I ain't got nobody
I got some money 'cause i just got paid
How I wish I had someone to talk to
I'm in an awful way

lmfao...Hang in there SB !


----------



## BanditPanda

J.LaGrassa said:


> Got another OD to try it's the Xotic AC Booster and will get to try it out tonight but so far it sounds great at home into a slightly pushed amp, I like the fact that it has Bass and Treble controls to really fine tune it to the amp.



Hey J. I have the Xotic BB and according to all accounts / reviews of their AC Booster you are going to LOVE that pedal !!
Keep us posted.


----------



## BanditPanda

AlanH said:


> Stop press. The DSL40C, unmodded, can be used effectively as a two channel amp.
> 
> After 8437 posts and 422 pages who would have thought it?



It's all comes down to the head to which the ears are attached.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

BanditPanda said:


> Hey J. I have the Xotic BB and according to all accounts / reviews of their AC Booster you are going to LOVE that pedal !!
> Keep us posted.



Thanks, I thought about getting the BB but wanted a less mid heavy OD and the AC fits that role nicely... cant wait to try it tonight. The Tumnus I had was nice but the AC Booster should be a better fit for what I am looking for in a OD pedal.


----------



## BanditPanda

J.LaGrassa said:


> Thanks, I thought about getting the BB but wanted a less mid heavy OD and the AC fits that role nicely... cant wait to try it tonight. The Tumnus I had was nice but the AC Booster should be a better fit for what I am looking for in a OD pedal.



LOL..that's cool... I got the BB to replace the Tumnus !!


----------



## kev67

Been reading the joey mod thread and my board on the 2015 dsl is dsl 100 60 00 issue 1... won't those mods be good for this one?


----------



## Micky

kev67 said:


> Been reading the joey mod thread and my board on the 2015 dsl is dsl 100 60 00 issue 1... won't those mods be good for this one?


No. The newer DSL's have different components in different places.
Although, the concepts can be applied if you study the circuits...


----------



## kev67

Micky said:


> No. The newer DSL's have different components in different places.
> Although, the concepts can be applied if you study the circuits...




Best see if i can find a schematic for it 

Cheers man


----------



## kev67

On a side note... the combo has now been stripped ready for head conversion tomorrow


----------



## Angus Rhoads

J.LaGrassa said:


> There good speakers but its all preference I tried 3 of the different creambacks and i liked them but not enough to keep them, something about the Celestion V-Type i just like better.


Heard a lot of positive things about the V-Type, there's one for sale locally on CL for $50 that's been tempting me... I'm such a speaker hoarder, though. But, every now & then I like to change up my sound and nothing makes a bigger impact than a speaker swap, plus the 40C in particular seems especially sensitive to different ones.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

I


solarburnDSL50 said:


> WTF! Am I the only one home on a Saturday night and on here?
> 
> Where you guyz at?LOL


I was waiting for my strippers, man, they never showed up... LOL


----------



## Angus Rhoads

BanditPanda said:


> LOL..that's cool... I got the BB to replace the Tumnus !!


Xotic makes good stuff, I have their SL Drive and EP Booster - good sounds and built like tanks. One day will need to try out the BB Preamp, the Wildwood demos on YT sound really nice and that Greg Koch is a MONSTER player.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Angus Rhoads said:


> Heard a lot of positive things about the V-Type, there's one for sale locally on CL for $50 that's been tempting me... I'm such a speaker hoarder, though. But, every now & then I like to change up my sound and nothing makes a bigger impact than a speaker swap, plus the 40C in particular seems especially sensitive to different ones.



Here is a clip I made a while ago with the V-Type in my DSL40 with all JJ tubes, used a Gibson SG!


----------



## Angus Rhoads

J.LaGrassa said:


> Here is a clip I made a while ago with the V-Type in my DSL40 with all JJ tubes, used a Gibson SG!



Nice and crunchy! Love that classic SG upper-mid snarl, 498T pickup? The V-Type seems to have some V30 and maybe even a little Greenback DNA.
Yeah, nice clip man, good riffage!


----------



## BanditPanda

kev67 said:


> On a side note... the combo has now been stripped ready for head conversion tomorrow




Pics when ready please. !!
BP


----------



## solarburn

Angus Rhoads said:


> I
> 
> I was waiting for my strippers, man, they never showed up... LOL



I was lonely...so I kept them. Besides I had them at " Marshall". 

If only your V30 was good enuff...

Sorry bro...if only I had strippers at my beckon & call.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Angus Rhoads said:


> Nice and crunchy! Love that classic SG upper-mid snarl, 498T pickup? The V-Type seems to have some V30 and maybe even a little Greenback DNA.
> Yeah, nice clip man, good riffage!



The SG has the 490 pickups and your right about the V-Type its got some V30 and Greenback in it, sounding better now that its breaking in.


----------



## kev67

BanditPanda said:


> Pics when ready please. !!
> BP



Forgot to take some Pre cut.. but took a few on the rough assembly...
Just routed the edges and on tea break... be finishing it later on....

Up to yet i totally stripped the entire combo.. (apart from the handle and top plastic corners)
Cut two slits the full width of the cab on the bottom corners.
Carefully used a heat gun on its lowest setting to heat the tolex so to ease peeling it back... 
Note that the tolex is cheap and flimsy so i found it best to cool a little before the peeling.
After various chats about depth of head and corner jointing over a brew i decided to cut the cab sides down to 250mm.
I cut the inner supports down enough that the bottom was flush to the sides.
Normally i would mortise and tenon joint the edges for a good strong fit but as the material is mdf i decided reinforce the corner supports by glue and counter sunk screws.
Routed edges on the bottom was next.
I cut the combo back panel down so the bottom hole (with grill fitted) is on the head back.


Ive left it for a while to let it set a bit and get some food 

Just got to screw it all back together.
Glue the tolex back on.
Feet back on..
Adjust the grill cloth & piping and staple back to cab...
Think the amp will be lobbed back in then and switch on time


----------



## BanditPanda

Sounds good kev.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

kev67 said:


> Forgot to take some Pre cut.. but took a few on the rough assembly...
> Just routed the edges and on tea break... be finishing it later on....
> 
> Up to yet i totally stripped the entire combo.. (apart from the handle and top plastic corners)
> Cut two slits the full width of the cab on the bottom corners.
> Carefully used a heat gun on its lowest setting to heat the tolex so to ease peeling it back...
> Note that the tolex is cheap and flimsy so i found it best to cool a little before the peeling.
> After various chats about depth of head and corner jointing over a brew i decided to cut the cab sides down to 250mm.
> I cut the inner supports down enough that the bottom was flush to the sides.
> Normally i would mortise and tenon joint the edges for a good strong fit but as the material is mdf i decided reinforce the corner supports by glue and counter sunk screws.
> Routed edges on the bottom was next.
> I cut the combo back panel down so the bottom hole (with grill fitted) is on the head back.
> 
> 
> Ive left it for a while to let it set a bit and get some food
> 
> Just got to screw it all back together.
> Glue the tolex back on.
> Feet back on..
> Adjust the grill cloth & piping and staple back to cab...
> Think the amp will be lobbed back in then and switch on time



It's nice that you can do the job your self, look forward to seeing the end result.. I'm still a week or two away before I get my head cab from StageCraft.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I was lonely...so I kept them. Besides I had them at " Marshall".
> 
> If only your V30 was good enuff...
> 
> Sorry bro...if only I had strippers at my beckon & call.


LOL, no worries bro, most Sat nights we're watching an animated movie with the kids or something. Usually something that eats up time when I could be playing guitar instead...


----------



## BanditPanda

Angus Rhoads said:


> LOL, no worries bro, most Sat nights we're watching an animated movie with the kids or something. Usually something that eats up time when I could be playing guitar instead...



LOL... well so much for the Angus Rhoads mystique !


----------



## Angus Rhoads

BanditPanda said:


> LOL... well so much for the Angus Rhoads mystique !


Nah, I'll leave the mystique to you younger fellas. I'm too tired. LOL


----------



## BanditPanda

Angus Rhoads said:


> Nah, I'll leave the mystique to you younger fellas. I'm too tired. LOL



Don't give us that baloney ! Those strippers destined for you which SB hogged for himself were not meant to be a spectator sport !!


----------



## kev67

J.LaGrassa said:


> It's nice that you can do the job your self, look forward to seeing the end result.. I'm still a week or two away before I get my head cab from StageCraft.



Not really a joiner.. just stuff i remembered from school all those many years ago lol...
Got the head all together... just got the front and back to finish...

Damn that tolex is a fecker to glue down...
Im really thinking of making one out of ply tbh


----------



## kev67

BanditPanda said:


> Sounds good kev.



Cheers mate... Its thanks to you guys that i went for it 
Ive got the head all back together with the amp in.. just got to sort the front and back out and she's done...

Tis bugging me a bit that its mdf... itching to do a ply one now lol


----------



## Angus Rhoads

BanditPanda said:


> Don't give us that baloney ! Those strippers destined for you which SB hogged for himself were not meant to be a spectator sport !!


LOL


----------



## BanditPanda

.


----------



## BanditPanda

kev67 said:


> Cheers mate... Its thanks to you guys that i went for it
> Ive got the head all back together with the amp in.. just got to sort the front and back out and she's done...
> 
> Tis bugging me a bit that its mdf... itching to do a ply one now lol



Yes I hear ya. I went thru that myself however I was taking into considerations costs for building 2 x 1 x 12 cabs and 1. Ply is twice the price of MDF and 2. The DSL40C sounds great being made
out of MDF.
As far as a head goes well suit your fancy it won't affect you tonally in any way.


----------



## Micky

BanditPanda said:


> Yes I hear ya. I went thru that myself however I was taking into considerations costs for building 2 x 1 x 12 cabs and 1. Ply is twice the price of MDF and 2. The DSL40C sounds great being made
> out of MDF.
> As far as a head goes well suit your fancy it won't affect you tonally in any way.


If it was me, I would just build one out of ply and keep the combo cab pristine in case I wanted to put it back to original in case I wanted to sell it. Parts and tolex should be well under $100


----------



## kev67

BanditPanda said:


> Yes I hear ya. I went thru that myself however I was taking into considerations costs for building 2 x 1 x 12 cabs and 1. Ply is twice the price of MDF and 2. The DSL40C sounds great being made
> out of MDF.
> As far as a head goes well suit your fancy it won't affect you tonally in any way.



Yeah.. thought that (tonally) was just more for the strength of the cab... (and a challenge lol)
Ill be keeping the Dsl head as its the first time that ive done this.


----------



## BanditPanda

Micky said:


> If it was me, I would just build one out of ply and keep the combo cab pristine in case I wanted to put it back to original in case I wanted to sell it. Parts and tolex should be well under $100




I'll be sure to post the end result.
BP


----------



## Bownse

Micky said:


> If it was me, I would just build one out of ply and keep the combo cab pristine in case I wanted to put it back to original in case I wanted to sell it. Parts and tolex should be well under $100




That's what (and why) I did it that way.


----------



## kev67

Just rebuilt it all.. need to do a few tweaks and restick a bit of tolex.. got practice later so will be trying her out yay


----------



## kev67

As of now


----------



## BanditPanda

kev67 said:


> As of now



Bravo ! Well done! That is something to be proud of and you are going to love carrying that head into the room ! It is so much more practical not to mention a helluva lot lighter !!
Now you have the freedom to make whatever type of cabs you want too.
BP


----------



## kev67

BanditPanda said:


> Bravo ! Well done! That is something to be proud of and you are going to love carrying that head into the room ! It is so much more practical not to mention a helluva lot lighter !!
> Now you have the freedom to make whatever type of cabs you want too.
> BP


Aye.. I'm right chuffed with it... I'm going to order some of the same grill cloth to make a matching 2x12...


----------



## BanditPanda

kev67 said:


> Aye.. I'm right chuffed with it... I'm going to order some of the same grill cloth to make a matching 2x12...



Now you're talking !!!
Still waiting for mine ( vintage grill cloth ) to arrive from Milton Keynes. Gonna be awhile yet before it gets here though.


----------



## kev67

BanditPanda said:


> Now you're talking !!!
> Still waiting for mine ( vintage grill cloth ) to arrive from Milton Keynes. Gonna be awhile yet before it gets here though.



The joys of living in the UK. .. quick post lol. 

Weird thing happened jamming tonight... same practice room.. same guitar and leads etc same Randall 4x12 and I swear the tone is better.. everyone agreed... I have also ran the combo through the 4x12... treb on 6 mid 6 bass between 2 and 3...
Got excellent tones from all the channels..
Classic crunch and l1 were my fave. . On half power too... wow


----------



## kev67

I know it's been said but everyone should throw the 70 80 speaker down their gardens lol... tonight's the first practice that I've had for a long while where my ears are not ringing


----------



## BanditPanda

kev67 said:


> I know it's been said but everyone should throw the 70 80 speaker down their gardens lol... tonight's the first practice that I've had for a long while where my ears are not ringing




Was your 70/80 broke in? Some are using that speaker to good result the key being that it has to be broken in before it gets right. Just the same it is Marshall's econo speaker.


----------



## kev67

BanditPanda said:


> Was your 70/80 broke in? Some are using that speaker to good result the key being that it has to be broken in before it gets right. Just the same it is Marshall's econo speaker.


Should have by now... Nov 2015 amp played weekly at practice last 6 months and nearly everyday at home up to 3 on ultra channel vol


----------



## BanditPanda

kev67 said:


> Should have by now... Nov 2015 amp played weekly at practice last 6 months and nearly everyday at home up to 3 on ultra channel vol



LOL...Yup that sucker should be broken in by now !!


----------



## ken361

kev67 said:


> Should have by now... Nov 2015 amp played weekly at practice last 6 months and nearly everyday at home up to 3 on ultra channel vol


4 is the sweet spot


----------



## Angus Rhoads

kev67 said:


> I know it's been said but everyone should throw the 70 80 speaker down their gardens lol... tonight's the first practice that I've had for a long while where my ears are not ringing


I'm with you, the 70/80 doesn't do anything for me, much better choices out there.

Uh oh, I may have awoken the sleeping Solar Beast...


----------



## rlowe

Angus Rhoads said:


> I'm with you, the 70/80 doesn't do anything for me, much better choices out there.
> 
> Uh oh, I may have awoken the sleeping Solar Beast...



I have the 70/80 in a closed back mx112 ext. cab purchased last Oct. Played decent out of box (closed cab). Compared to my barely broken in Celestion Vintage 30 in amp it seems to be lacking that fuller audio spectrum the V has, but they both sound good in the blend. Left ear, right ear!


----------



## kev67

ken361 said:


> 4 is the sweet spot


Had it up to 6 for last half hour jam... couldn't believe the difference. . 
Need to try it on pentode at that level as a scientific experiment of couse


----------



## kev67

Angus Rhoads said:


> I'm with you, the 70/80 doesn't do anything for me, much better choices out there.
> 
> Uh oh, I may have awoken the sleeping Solar Beast...



Ha...

Always had ringing ears with the 70 80 in the combo.
As I put earlier, I used the full combo as a head through the same 4x12 over a period of time.. same eq but no ear fatigue  
Wonder if being in a combo makes the speaker rough?


----------



## kev67

Edit.. duplicate post


----------



## Micky

kev67 said:


> Ha...
> 
> Always had ringing ears with the 70 80 in the combo.
> As I put earlier, I used the full combo as a head through the same 4x12 over a period of time.. same eq but no ear fatigue
> Wonder if being in a combo makes the speaker rough?


I dunno what you mean by 'rough' but speakers in combos (open-back) certainly are treble friendly...
An open-back case lacks the ability to accurately reproduce lower frequencies, and possibly sound 'shrill'.
Great for cutting thru the mix, but as you noticed, can get on your nerves after a bit...


----------



## kev67

Micky said:


> I dunno what you mean by 'rough' but speakers in combos (open-back) certainly are treble friendly...
> An open-back case lacks the ability to accurately reproduce lower frequencies, and possibly sound 'shrill'.
> Great for cutting thru the mix, but as you noticed, can get on your nerves after a bit...



Meant rough on the ear


----------



## Angus Rhoads

rlowe said:


> I have the 70/80 in a closed back mx112 ext. cab purchased last Oct. Played decent out of box (closed cab). Compared to my barely broken in Celestion Vintage 30 in amp it seems to be lacking that fuller audio spectrum the V has, but they both sound good in the blend. Left ear, right ear!


Some day you may want to try a Classic Lead with the V30, it's like a premium version of the 70/80 and mates up with the V30 really well!


----------



## Bownse

kev67 said:


> Weird thing happened jamming tonight... same practice room.. same guitar and leads etc same Randall 4x12 and I swear the tone is better.. everyone agreed...w



Ya think that any part of that might be a cleaner amp with the tubes taking less abuse than they do in combos?


----------



## rlowe

Angus Rhoads said:


> Some day you may want to try a Classic Lead with the V30, it's like a premium version of the 70/80 and mates up with the V30 really well!


Well, might try something a little higher than the 70/80 soon. Link to variety, Wizard sounds decent.


----------



## kev67

Bownse said:


> Ya think that any part of that might be a cleaner amp with the tubes taking less abuse than they do in combos?


Don't know tbh.. wondered of that was something to do with it.
Sounds
The amp sound right better though


----------



## BanditPanda

kev67 said:


> Don't know tbh.. wondered of that was something to do with it.
> Sounds
> The amp sound right better though



Oh..and Kev... Congrats on the new avatar lol !!


----------



## J.LaGrassa

kev67 said:


> As of now



Looks great!!


----------



## kev67

BanditPanda said:


> Oh..and Kev... Congrats on the new avatar lol !!


Haha.
Cheers mate... it's all down to you guys really. ... probably wouldn't have thought of doing it if it were for being on this forum...
You guy's help with pics or advice ad it a less daunting task. 

Just ordered the grill cloth for a cab... didn't think £20 delivered was a bad price for enough to do a 4x12


----------



## J.LaGrassa

kev67 said:


> Haha.
> Cheers mate... it's all down to you guys really. ... probably wouldn't have thought of doing it if it were for being on this forum...
> You guy's help with pics or advice ad it a less daunting task.
> 
> Just ordered the grill cloth for a cab... didn't think £20 delivered was a bad price for enough to do a 4x12



My head cab ships next week, cant wait to convert my combo into a head!!


----------



## BanditPanda

kev67 said:


> Haha.
> Cheers mate... it's all down to you guys really. ... probably wouldn't have thought of doing it if it were for being on this forum...
> You guy's help with pics or advice ad it a less daunting task.
> 
> Just ordered the grill cloth for a cab... didn't think £20 delivered was a bad price for enough to do a 4x12




20 GBP is approx. 32 bucks CDN which is what I paid for one meter from Milton Keynes to Montreal with an additional 10 bucks to be added on for freight.
How many meters did you require for a 4 x 12 cab?
BP


----------



## BanditPanda

J.LaGrassa said:


> My head cab ships next week, cant wait to convert my combo into a head!!



Right on J! won't be long now and you'll be pluggin' into your DSL40H !!
When that happens let us know about the tone.
Kev has experienced a better tonal quality since his conversion to head only and we're interested if you'll have that same experience.
BP


----------



## J.LaGrassa

BanditPanda said:


> Right on J! won't be long now and you'll be pluggin' into your DSL40H !!
> When that happens let us know about the tone.
> Kev has experienced a better tonal quality since his conversion to head only and we're interested if you'll have that same experience.
> BP



I've been using the combo for the last month with an exension cab and both the amp and cab have the V-Type speaker installed, much bigger tone that way. The extension cab definitely has a better bass response than the amp alone, I have 2 of these extension cabs so if I miss that tone I will stack the cabs with the head but I think one cab will be plenty for my needs.


----------



## ken361

2 cabs will look sweet


----------



## BanditPanda

J.LaGrassa said:


> I've been using the combo for the last month with an exension cab and both the amp and cab have the V-Type speaker installed, much bigger tone that way. The extension cab definitely has a better bass response than the amp alone, I have 2 of these extension cabs so if I miss that tone I will stack the cabs with the head but I think one cab will be plenty for my needs.



ok but what I mean is a better tone when your amp will be separated from the combo.
i.e. a DSL40H will sound better than a DSL40C


----------



## kev67

BanditPanda said:


> 20 GBP is approx. 32 bucks CDN which is what I paid for one meter from Milton Keynes to Montreal with an additional 10 bucks to be added on for freight.
> How many meters did you require for a 4 x 12 cab?
> BP


1960b cab size 770x755 mm. . Cloth I ordered was 850x900mm so should be plenty.. still like the idea or handbuilt 2x12s thou


----------



## kev67

BanditPanda said:


> ok but what I mean is a better tone when your amp will be separated from the combo.
> i.e. a DSL40H will sound better than a DSL40C


I'm interested in this too


----------



## kev67

A guy I know has a standard combo.... stock 40c.. and we played them side by side, into the same cab.. same eq and he reckoned mine was way better sounding.
He's on about doing the c19 clip and probably do speaker swap but likes the head lol.
Are the 40c vintage and 40c the same internals?


----------



## BanditPanda

kev67 said:


> 1960b cab size 770x755 mm. . Cloth I ordered was 850x900mm so should be plenty.. still like the idea or handbuilt 2x12s thou



OHHHHHH... and the new signature too!!!! Just noticed. LOL.
_Marshall DSL 40H LTD Vintage_


----------



## kev67

BanditPanda said:


> OHHHHHH... and the new signature too!!!! Just noticed. LOL.
> _Marshall DSL 40H LTD Vintage_



Haha.. i'll grow up one of theses days .... maybe


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Deleted


----------



## BanditPanda

J.LaGrassa said:


> Hey guys, ran into a little bit of a financial bind yesterday so i'm selling some of my gear and my DSL40 combo is already gone. So before I list the Stagecraft DSL40 head cab for sale if any of you are interested in it PM me let me know, I will hopefully have the head cab sometime next week so either way I will not be hanging on to it.



Whoa...big time bummer !!


----------



## ken361

That sucks hope it works out for ya J.L.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

ken361 said:


> That sucks hope it works out for ya J.L.



Thanks!


----------



## Angus Rhoads

J.LaGrassa said:


> Hey guys, ran into a little bit of a financial bind yesterday so i'm selling some of my gear and my DSL40 combo is already gone. So before I list the Stagecraft DSL40 head cab for sale if any of you are interested in it PM me let me know, I will hopefully have the head cab sometime next week so either way I will not be hanging on to it.


Sorry to hear this - I hope things work out for you, man. Hoping for the best!


----------



## BanditPanda

kev67 said:


> A guy I know has a standard combo.... stock 40c.. and we played them side by side, into the same cab.. same eq and he reckoned mine was way better sounding.
> He's on about doing the c19 clip and probably do speaker swap but likes the head lol.
> Are the 40c vintage and 40c the same internals?



I cannot answer that question as an expert or Marshall authourity however as far as I know the only diff is the grill cloth and the badges.
BP


----------



## kev67

J.LaGrassa said:


> Hey guys, ran into a little bit of a financial bind yesterday so i'm selling some of my gear and my DSL40 combo is already gone. So before I list the Stagecraft DSL40 head cab for sale if any of you are interested in it PM me let me know, I will hopefully have the head cab sometime next week so either way I will not be hanging on to it.


That's dire matey. . Hope you get sorted soon man


----------



## kev67

BanditPanda said:


> I cannot answer that question as an expert or Marshall authourity however as far as I know the only diff is the grill cloth and the badges.
> BP


That's what I thought to be honest..


----------



## J.LaGrassa

kev67 said:


> That's dire matey. . Hope you get sorted soon man



The many headaches of being a home owner!!


----------



## whitecloud

J.LaGrassa said:


> The many headaches of being a home owner!!


Wishing you the best. I sure have enjoyed your shares and hope to have many more


----------



## kev67

J.LaGrassa said:


> The many headaches of being a home owner!!


Aye... had that fun in the past


----------



## solarburn

J.LaGrassa said:


> Hey guys, ran into a little bit of a financial bind yesterday so i'm selling some of my gear and my DSL40 combo is already gone. So before I list the Stagecraft DSL40 head cab for sale if any of you are interested in it PM me let me know, I will hopefully have the head cab sometime next week so either way I will not be hanging on to it.



Sorry you have to let go of gear to generate some cash bro. Hope it's a smaller bump than a mutherfucker.

Hope a good change coming quick. I'm with most players here...your clips sound tits.


----------



## solarburn

Angus Rhoads said:


> I'm with you, the 70/80 doesn't do anything for me, much better choices out there.
> 
> Uh oh, I may have awoken the sleeping Solar Beast...



LMAO!


----------



## solarburn

Angy!

If you can't make a DSL40C sound good stock with a 70/80 you need a speaker that makes your playing sound better than it is...

Course I'm full of chit. A good speaker changes a whole lot. And your mother fuck'n play'n speaks for itself. Panty drop'n.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Angy!
> 
> If you can't make a DSL40C sound good stock with a 70/80 you need a speaker that makes your playing sound better than it is...
> 
> Course I'm full of chit. A good speaker changes a whole lot. And your mother fuck'n play'n speaks for itself. Panty drop'n.


LOL, you are a freakin' poet and a philosopher, my friend!

Seriously, though, it's not like I HATE the 70/80 - I mean, I DID like the amp enough stock to want to buy it after all! It's like trying different OD pedals, if there are a variety of choices for different tones, why not try 'em? Heck, most boutique pedals cost even more than speakers these days!


----------



## Bownse

solarburnDSL50 said:


> If you can't make a DSL40C sound good stock with a 70/80 you need a speaker that makes your playing sound better than it is...
> 
> Course I'm full of chit. A good speaker changes a whole lot. And your mother fuck'n play'n speaks for itself. Panty drop'n.



Yep. A C19 clip and a speaker swap made my DSL sound more like I wanted but I still play for shyte and have to practice.


----------



## kev67

Bownse said:


> Yep. A C19 clip and a speaker swap made my DSL sound more like I wanted but I still play for shyte and have to practice.


I'm same lol


----------



## ken361

I never really play drop D but i was getting fat juicy tones  the echoplex preamp from the belle epoch adds more flavor


----------



## DeadStarRule

Hi guys, I have the dsl100h matched with the recommended MX412A cab, as many here, the amp was sounding very nasal and extremely bright/harsh when I bought it, I was playing that stock way about 2 months, but I wasn't happy with the sound and couldn't believe this was the sound of a 800bucks all tube amp... but later on I did some research about "dsl100h too bright" and I ended here.

I want to share with you the things I did/ recommend to do to your amps dsl100h or dsl40h as those are basically the same to get the best of them and a good juicy sound without the harsh, first of all I recommend you to check and adjust the bias, my dsl was about 74mV, I do adjust it from 60mV to 90mV and compare the sounds, the less the voltage, the more digitally/nasal/thin sound, but with more voltage the more rounded/warm sound, I read that some people adjust them to 80, 85 and also 90, it is supposed that the recommended voltage from marshall is 90mV but also somewhere I read that could be very hot, so I finally decided to leave both sides at 88mV, this simple adjust gave more tone, warm, body sound. I guess for the DSL40c is the half: 88mV / 2 = 44mV.

Second to get rid of the harsh/fizzy sound I did the c19 470pF mod by cutting it, helped a lot cutting the ear bleeding highs, but also seems that you lose some sparky/addictive highs that are so Marshall , so I tested 47pF, 68pF, 100pF and 150pF, definetely the 100pF capacitor is the perfect replacement of the 470pF stock.

Third the clean channel on the mode1 was also very fizzy/harsh and nasal, specially if you put in front any pedal, distortions or multieffects. c4 100pF is the equivalent cap in classic gain as c19 is for ultragain channel, If I just remove this cap same as above happens, no harsh sound but the addictive sound is lost, so I tested here 22pF, 47pF, 68pF, the perfect replacement cap for c4 is 22pF.

So in summary If you have the DSL40c or DSL100h first adjust your bias, second replace the c19 with 100pF and third, replace c4 with 22pF.

I now have a very pleasant, full body, warm, addictive highs sounding amp


----------



## Angus Rhoads

ken361 said:


> I never really play drop D but i was getting fat juicy tones  the echoplex preamp from the belle epoch adds more flavor



That sounds really good Ken. Can't remember - you went back to keeping the stock speaker or did you put the ET65 back in?


----------



## Micky

DeadStarRule said:


> Hi guys, I have the dsl100h matched with the recommended MX412A cab, as many here, the amp was sounding very nasal and extremely bright/harsh when I bought it, I was playing that stock way about 2 months, but I wasn't happy with the sound and couldn't believe this was the sound of a 800bucks all tube amp... but later on I did some research about "dsl100h too bright" and I ended here.
> 
> I want to share with you the things I did/ recommend to do to your amps dsl100h or dsl40h as those are basically the same to get the best of them and a good juicy sound without the harsh, first of all I recommend you to check and adjust the bias, my dsl was about 74mV, I do adjust it from 60mV to 90mV and compare the sounds, the less the voltage, the more digitally/nasal/thin sound, but with more voltage the more rounded/warm sound, I read that some people adjust them to 80, 85 and also 90, it is supposed that the recommended voltage from marshall is 90mV but also somewhere I read that could be very hot, so I finally decided to leave both sides at 88mV, this simple adjust gave more tone, warm, body sound. I guess for the DSL40c is the half: 88mV / 2 = 44mV.
> 
> Second to get rid of the harsh/fizzy sound I did the c19 470pF mod by cutting it, helped a lot cutting the ear bleeding highs, but also seems that you lose some sparky/addictive highs that are so Marshall , so I tested 47pF, 68pF, 100pF and 150pF, definetely the 100pF capacitor is the perfect replacement of the 470pF stock.
> 
> Third the clean channel on the mode1 was also very fizzy/harsh and nasal, specially if you put in front any pedal, distortions or multieffects. c4 100pF is the equivalent cap in classic gain as c19 is for ultragain channel, If I just remove this cap same as above happens, no harsh sound but the addictive sound is lost, so I tested here 22pF, 47pF, 68pF, the perfect replacement cap for c4 is 22pF.
> 
> So in summary If you have the DSL40c or DSL100h first adjust your bias, second replace the c19 with 100pF and third, replace c4 with 22pF.
> 
> I now have a very pleasant, full body, warm, addictive highs sounding amp


All of these mods have been discussed in great detail throughout this thread. Glad that you are enjoying yours!


----------



## solarburn

Got to see Megadeath and Scorps tonight.

So much Marshall goodness.


----------



## ken361

Angus Rhoads said:


> That sounds really good Ken. Can't remember - you went back to keeping the stock speaker or did you put the ET65 back in?


Yeah its the ET 65


----------



## ken361

DeadStarRule said:


> Hi guys, I have the dsl100h matched with the recommended MX412A cab, as many here, the amp was sounding very nasal and extremely bright/harsh when I bought it, I was playing that stock way about 2 months, but I wasn't happy with the sound and couldn't believe this was the sound of a 800bucks all tube amp... but later on I did some research about "dsl100h too bright" and I ended here.
> 
> I want to share with you the things I did/ recommend to do to your amps dsl100h or dsl40h as those are basically the same to get the best of them and a good juicy sound without the harsh, first of all I recommend you to check and adjust the bias, my dsl was about 74mV, I do adjust it from 60mV to 90mV and compare the sounds, the less the voltage, the more digitally/nasal/thin sound, but with more voltage the more rounded/warm sound, I read that some people adjust them to 80, 85 and also 90, it is supposed that the recommended voltage from marshall is 90mV but also somewhere I read that could be very hot, so I finally decided to leave both sides at 88mV, this simple adjust gave more tone, warm, body sound. I guess for the DSL40c is the half: 88mV / 2 = 44mV.
> 
> Second to get rid of the harsh/fizzy sound I did the c19 470pF mod by cutting it, helped a lot cutting the ear bleeding highs, but also seems that you lose some sparky/addictive highs that are so Marshall , so I tested 47pF, 68pF, 100pF and 150pF, definetely the 100pF capacitor is the perfect replacement of the 470pF stock.
> 
> Third the clean channel on the mode1 was also very fizzy/harsh and nasal, specially if you put in front any pedal, distortions or multieffects. c4 100pF is the equivalent cap in classic gain as c19 is for ultragain channel, If I just remove this cap same as above happens, no harsh sound but the addictive sound is lost, so I tested here 22pF, 47pF, 68pF, the perfect replacement cap for c4 is 22pF.
> 
> So in summary If you have the DSL40c or DSL100h first adjust your bias, second replace the c19 with 100pF and third, replace c4 with 22pF.
> 
> I now have a very pleasant, full body, warm, addictive highs sounding amp


I found the opposit cool is better and warmer some! My tech very well known here in MI set mine at 30! I tried it 36,32,30. 30 sounded a bit warmer and a little more nicer in the mids with some Sag feel to it. I stood back 10 feet and cranked the amp and listened good.

From 30 to 36 isn't really as that drastic one would think, but it was the sweet spot Dean and I found.He said its mostly preamp distortion anyways.Less heat in the chassic and less issues! More power tube life also, I got 4 more months out of my last set of power tubes. Pinch harmonics was harder to achieve with set higher. Also power tubes for me sounded smoother after 3 weeks with bedroom playing and 6 hours of loud time.


----------



## KraftyBob

Hello DSL40C Thread.

I'm a new DSL40c owner and spent a lot time going through the threads here to get info on the amp as I have some questions. Before I get to the amp questions I'd like to ask about the thread - is there a chance the the DSL40c will get it's own forum under "The Amps" instead of just a thread under Marshall Amps? The reason I ask is there's a ton of great information here but it's difficult to search. Every search result has the same title of "The Official Marshall DSL40c Information Thread" so you have to read through the text, or click into the link of each one to see if it has the information you're looking for.

Typically each thread is based on a subject but with the amount of posts on this thread there are tons of different subjects.

I'd like to say that I mean no offense being the new guy to come in and suggest changes right off the bat. While I'm new to this forum I'm not new to forums in general and just thought it would make it a lot easier for those of us new to this amp to gain some valuable insight from those of you that have owned it for a while.

Thanks in advance. I'll post my questions after I've played with this amp for a little while and have done some experimenting with it. Great amp btw!

Thanks!

Bob


----------



## BanditPanda

Welcome Krafty...not sure if I understand however when your get onto The Official Marshall DSL40c Information Thread and you enter search you are provided with search parameters such as : search this thread only.
Then the search criteria.... clip c4... for example and then every post with that phrase from the DSL40C Thread will appear.
Yes of course you will have to hit each post containing that phrase until you find specifically what you're looking for in reference to" clip C4 "
I get the feeling that I am not understanding your inquiry?
BP


----------



## AlanH

KraftyBob said:


> Hello DSL40C Thread.
> 
> I'm a new DSL40c owner and spent a lot time going through the threads here to get info on the amp as I have some questions. Before I get to the amp questions I'd like to ask about the thread - is there a chance the the DSL40c will get it's own forum under "The Amps" instead of just a thread under Marshall Amps? The reason I ask is there's a ton of great information here but it's difficult to search. Every search result has the same title of "The Official Marshall DSL40c Information Thread" so you have to read through the text, or click into the link of each one to see if it has the information you're looking for.
> 
> Typically each thread is based on a subject but with the amount of posts on this thread there are tons of different subjects.
> 
> I'd like to say that I mean no offense being the new guy to come in and suggest changes right off the bat. While I'm new to this forum I'm not new to forums in general and just thought it would make it a lot easier for those of us new to this amp to gain some valuable insight from those of you that have owned it for a while.
> 
> Thanks in advance. I'll post my questions after I've played with this amp for a little while and have done some experimenting with it. Great amp btw!
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Bob



Congrats on the new DSL40C Bob! As somebody pointed out when I first posted on here "you're gonna love that amp".

I'm with you on megathreads and the etiquette on some internet forums which often discourages the creating of new threads. Fortunately people don't tend to get chastised on here when they post a new DSL40C thread and some will simply politely point out the existence of this thread.

When I was buying my DSL40C, and for a couple of weeks afterwards, I got to around the first 80 pages of this thread but it took me hours and days. I gave up at the point when the same information started to regularly repeat itself. As my only Marshall currently is a DSL40C I do still check in on this thread, but only posts from the "new posts" option at the top of the forum in case anything of use comes up.

Using the search feature on most internet forums tends to be a waste of time, especially when there are megathreads. As such, my tip would be to simply google what you want to know but to add in "marshallforum" and "DSL40C" in to your search terms. Invariably there will be lots of posts from this thread that come up but you can also find useful posts from the "unofficial" DSL40C threads that have been posted on here.

Cheers

Alan


----------



## tmingle

I was running thru a bunch of old 12ax7 tubes in my 40C this afternoon as a final test before I sell some off. I found a Mullard F91 in the stash and put it in. My God what a sound!
I can see why these are so expensive. I played for about 20 minutes and decided to pull it & sell it, before I get addicted to the Mullard sound. I wound up leaving an old Tungsol in V1. I was running a CP Tungsol, but the old 1 sounds quite a bit better. The older tubes don't seem to be as shrill when they feedback. All in all, I was really surprised how much the V1 effects the tone. My old 401 never seemed to respond to preamp tube changes but, the difference in power tubes was huge with that amp.


----------



## Micky

tmingle said:


> I was running thru a bunch of old 12ax7 tubes in my 40C this afternoon as a final test before I sell some off. I found a Mullard F91 in the stash and put it in. My God what a sound!
> I can see why these are so expensive. I played for about 20 minutes and decided to pull it & sell it, before I get addicted to the Mullard sound. I wound up leaving an old Tungsol in V1. I was running a CP Tungsol, but the old 1 sounds quite a bit better. The older tubes don't seem to be as shrill when they feedback. All in all, I was really surprised how much the V1 effects the tone. My old 401 never seemed to respond to preamp tube changes but, the difference in power tubes was huge with that amp.


Given that much of the gain in this amp is created by the preamp section it is no surprise you have discovered what many here have found to be true - That is, V1 is VERY important in your overall sound as well as the 'feel' of the amp.

Also you have discovered the secret of older tubes - That they don't make 'em like they used to... I have all NOS tubes in my preamp section and I will never turn to CP preamp tubes ever again. (except in an emergency)


----------



## KraftyBob

Hi Guys and thanks for the warm welcome! 

My point on the search is topics are inter-woven in the thread so if I was to do a search on loud hiss and click on a search result, the first couple would be about hiss, but then the next entry is something completely different. I may not find another comment about Hiss until 10-12 entries later as other topics are mixed in. Just a suggestion/thought.

In the mean time I'm loving this amp and can't believe it wasn't even in my top 10 when I started my search but luckily I came to my senses  I bought the Sweetwater amp with the Creamback and so glad I did. I played the Seventy/80 a lot in the stores and liked it enough to buy the amp knowing I was getting what I believe is a better speaker.

All that being said I have some concerns about the quality of the amp and the amount of hiss on the red channel. I get it's a high gain amp/channel but even with the gain & vol around 4 the hiss is incredibly loud - above 5 or 6 it's essentially un-usable in my opinion. I don't remember that when trying out the amp in the store - although a store is obviously a much different environment than my carpeted office at home. Still - I've not had an amp hiss this much. The first amp I received the reverb did not work. I know the reverb is weak on these but it was literally nothing - not even the slightest echo on either channel. This hiss was horrible on that one too. I returned that one and now the second one I have crackling - which I's sure is a bad tube. 2 out of 2 bad units is not a good first impression of the DSL40c.

From what I've been able to find on here a tube swap seems in order to tame the hiss (and now crackling) so I'm debating do I exchange this one and hope the 3rd time is a charm, or call my sales rep and see if they'll work out a deal on new pre-amps tubes. If I go with the pre-amp tubes I'll need some advice on which ones to get as I don't want to change the tone but would sure like to cut down on the white noise.

I'm really hoping this works out because for the money there is nothing else out there that even comes close to the DSL. I bought the amp, a Line 6 M13 and the VooDoo Lab Control Switcher so I can change the channel on the amp through the M13 and for the first time in a long time I'm really loving my setup.

Looking for to being a long-time forum member and contributor!

Bob


----------



## Micky

You are correct in that the search function is sometimes less than helpful...
I have tried to create a table of contents, but it is a moving target. Especially with missing photos due to changing requirements by hosting companies. I would love to delegate this task to someone with more time and ambition than I have...

This is why it is best to ask away if you have questions.
There is a pretty solid user base here, and all of these members are experienced in just about anything you might ask.
I cannot put into words the amount of appreciation I have for all of those who have contributed here, who have put in long, hard hours of time to explore and document this incredible amp. It is a pretty popular amp, I am constantly amazed at all the users here who have experience as well as talent. This is why it is best to ask away, everyone that follows this thread with any regularity is more than willing to help anyone with a question (I hate speaking for everyone else, but I am confident you will find my comments are true)

There is an incredible amount of gain available in this amp, and you are correct that it is almost unusable under certain conditions. You are also correct that replacing the preamp tubes might be a solution to this problem. You can start by asking what others use to tame the hiss, and what you currently have installed. That will give us all a better idea of how to advise. You should also state the type of sound you are after, the type of music you like and if you use anything else such as pedals or signal processors in the chain.

Good to have you here, and I hope that you too can help contribute here!


----------



## KraftyBob

Thanks Micky!

I just got the amp less than 2 weeks ago so it has the stock tubes. I play a wide variety: Stones, Pink Floyd, Tom Petty, AC/DC, Van Halen, Metallica, Creed, Braking Benjamin, System of a Down... One of the main reasons I bought this amp is how versatile it is. Really nice cleans all the way to some pretty good dirt. As far as tube replacement I like the raw, in your face Marshall tone on the Classic Gain Channel and love the mid-scooped Ultra-gain channel for de-tuned Creed, etc. I'm not looking to soften anything or make it brighter, darker, etc. Ideally I'd keep the same tones and just tame the hiss to a more manageable level - without dumping another $100+ into it.

I should note this is the first all tube amp that I've actually owned. Played through a bunch and I also own a Vox AD120VT and Marshall VS100 (selling the VS100). From what I've read V1 seems to be the key preamp tube for tone in the DSL. Also it sounds like you guys are putting different tubes (make/model, etc) in different positions which I'd love to have the time and money to experiment with but I just don't have the resources to do that right now (two kids in college and another one there soon, travel sports, etc.) 

My main guitars are a PRS Custom 22, Ibanez RG470 and Ibanez AX220 (upgraded pickups). My signal chain is pretty simple: Guitar --> Line 6 M13 (4 cable method) --> DSL40C. As mentioned above I also use the VooDoo Lab Control Switcher but that's not really in the signal chain per se. 95% of the time I use the amp distortion as I'm not a big fan of distortion pedals. After all, I bought the DSL because I love the amps tone. On the M13 at various times I'll use: Compressor, Wah, Chorus, Flanger, Delay, Noise Gate, Equalizer. I'm setting it up to run in the latch scene mode so each pre-set is a different configuration: Clean amp only, clean w/Chorus, OD w/EQ, OD w/Wah, etc.

I'm currently not in a band but a friend and I have been getting together and working on a set list. Once we're at a comfortable point with the songs we'll search for a drummer and bass player. If we can't get that going we even talked about getting into a backtracking setup but that would mean that one of us has to sing - and I don't like the sound of that (pun intended!). Our goal is to play a club maybe once/month, backyard parties, etc. Not looking to make money at it - just getting out and having some fun.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Got to see Megadeath and Scorps tonight.
> 
> So much Marshall goodness.


SCORPIONS!!! Love those guys, Mattias Jabs is criminally underrated. I was at this Day on the Green concert in Oakland back in 1985 (one of the best days of my life!):


----------



## R.Kandy

Well, seems to be my turn to question my DSL40C. Lately I have noticed a strange (and very noticeable) hum while playing. If I turn the standby on, the hum disappears. When back in play mode there's the hum!....., and only when playing at half power (20). when playing in full power there's no hum. I am guessing it's either a bad power tube or maybe a pre-amp tube. I think I will first have the power tube replaced (biased). Any suggestions as to a good power tube for a DSL40C? Or other ideas?


----------



## BanditPanda

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Got to see Megadeath and Scorps tonight.
> 
> So much Marshall goodness.



The metal from all the walkers in the audience didn't play havoc with the sound?


----------



## Angus Rhoads

BanditPanda said:


> The metal from all the walkers in the audience didn't play havoc with the sound?


Listen here young whippersnapper, not all of us old farts need walkers - some of us get by just fine with our canes and orthopedic shoes.


----------



## tmingle

KraftyBob said:


> Hi Guys and thanks for the warm welcome!
> 
> My point on the search is topics are inter-woven in the thread so if I was to do a search on loud hiss and click on a search result, the first couple would be about hiss, but then the next entry is something completely different. I may not find another comment about Hiss until 10-12 entries later as other topics are mixed in. Just a suggestion/thought.
> 
> In the mean time I'm loving this amp and can't believe it wasn't even in my top 10 when I started my search but luckily I came to my senses  I bought the Sweetwater amp with the Creamback and so glad I did. I played the Seventy/80 a lot in the stores and liked it enough to buy the amp knowing I was getting what I believe is a better speaker.
> 
> All that being said I have some concerns about the quality of the amp and the amount of hiss on the red channel. I get it's a high gain amp/channel but even with the gain & vol around 4 the hiss is incredibly loud - above 5 or 6 it's essentially un-usable in my opinion. I don't remember that when trying out the amp in the store - although a store is obviously a much different environment than my carpeted office at home. Still - I've not had an amp hiss this much. The first amp I received the reverb did not work. I know the reverb is weak on these but it was literally nothing - not even the slightest echo on either channel. This hiss was horrible on that one too. I returned that one and now the second one I have crackling - which I's sure is a bad tube. 2 out of 2 bad units is not a good first impression of the DSL40c.
> 
> From what I've been able to find on here a tube swap seems in order to tame the hiss (and now crackling) so I'm debating do I exchange this one and hope the 3rd time is a charm, or call my sales rep and see if they'll work out a deal on new pre-amps tubes. If I go with the pre-amp tubes I'll need some advice on which ones to get as I don't want to change the tone but would sure like to cut down on the white noise.
> 
> I'm really hoping this works out because for the money there is nothing else out there that even comes close to the DSL. I bought the amp, a Line 6 M13 and the VooDoo Lab Control Switcher so I can change the channel on the amp through the M13 and for the first time in a long time I'm really loving my setup.
> 
> Looking for to being a long-time forum member and contributor!
> 
> Bob


I have found that the biggest source of noise for me were my OD pedals that I had running on wall wart power supplies. I installed a 1spot CS7 power supply on my very limited pedal board(Tuner, 2 OD pedals, reverb, delay & MXR 10 band EQ). My amp is now dead quiet with Lead1 gain around 4-5 and a Tubescreamer with Volume at 10 & Gain 0). I also upgraded the 1st cable to a Mogami Silver. I did swap pre-amp tubes from the stock Marshall(JJ's?) preamp tubes.


----------



## solarburn

Angus Rhoads said:


> SCORPIONS!!! Love those guys, Mattias Jabs is criminally underrated. I was at this Day on the Green concert in Oakland back in 1985 (one of the best days of my life!):




Mattias still rocks it and the whole band delivered in Tacoma Wa. He got out front and did an instrumental that was rockn. Don't remember the tune.

They've got motorheads drummer and he did a drum solo that thumped the whole state! It was fucking long and never boring. I just want to know what his band mates were getting back stage? They had plenty of time for groupies and drugs...anyways the crowd went nuts over it.


----------



## solarburn

BanditPanda said:


> The metal from all the walkers in the audience didn't play havoc with the sound?





Lots of ole buttrockerz!


----------



## solarburn

Angus Rhoads said:


> Listen here young whippersnapper, not all of us old farts need walkers - some of us get by just fine with our canes and orthopedic shoes.


----------



## solarburn

Oh and let's not forget both bands unleashed Marshall's!


----------



## caiokiss

Hi, I've been using the DLC40C for a few years, I've changed the original speaker for the Celestion Creamback. I like the original speaker, but in my opinion the Creamback was a great improvment.

Here's my cover of Wasted Years from Iron Maiden, using the DLC40C on the guitars:

http://www.marshallforum.com/threads/iron-maiden-wasted-years-cover-marshall-dsl40c.98054/


----------



## KraftyBob

tmingle said:


> I have found that the biggest source of noise for me were my OD pedals that I had running on wall wart power supplies. I installed a 1spot CS7 power supply on my very limited pedal board(Tuner, 2 OD pedals, reverb, delay & MXR 10 band EQ). My amp is now dead quiet with Lead1 gain around 4-5 and a Tubescreamer with Volume at 10 & Gain 0). I also upgraded the 1st cable to a Mogami Silver. I did swap pre-amp tubes from the stock Marshall(JJ's?) preamp tubes.



The M13 is pretty quiet but here's what I've tried so far:

Plugged the guitar into the Effects Loop return to bypass the preamp and it's absolutely quiet on Lead 2 with the Gain and Volume dimmed so I know the power tubes are good and the noise is coming before the effects loop.
Disconnected and powered off the M13 and VooDoo Lab Control Switcher so the guitar was going straight into the amp and there was no noticeable reduction in hiss - which tells me the hiss is coming from the amp.
I got a high quality 12ga extension cord and tried different outlets in my house that I know are on different circuits - no change. Also, where my amp is plugged in is the same outlet I used with my other amps and they don't have noise problems. Additionally, while my house was built in the mid-80's we gutted and remodeled it two years ago and the wiring in my office (where I play) is all new.
Do I have the highest quality cables - no. But they are not the cheap ones either and I use them with my other two amps and have no issues so I'm pretty sure I can rule that out.
I plug the amp, M13 and VooDoo Lab into a LiveWire "power conditioner" although for the price I paid I'm pretty sure it's just a glorified surge protector but no change when I bypass that either.

The only thing left that I can think of are the preamp tubes. This morning I found an Electro Harmonix 12AX7EH in my gig bag that came out of my Marshall VS100 a while ago. I don't have a tube tester so I'm not sure if this is good but tonight I'll swap V1 just to see if it makes any difference.

You mentioned that you swapped out the stock tubes - what did you change them to?


----------



## Micky

So did you unplug the guitar from the amp? Is the hiss there then? 
If no, then the guitar/cables/pedals are the culprit.
If it has hiss with nothing plugged in, then yes, possibly a preamp tube...


----------



## KraftyBob

Micky said:


> So did you unplug the guitar from the amp? Is the hiss there then?
> If no, then the guitar/cables/pedals are the culprit.
> If it has hiss with nothing plugged in, then yes, possibly a preamp tube...



Yes, tried the amp with nothing plugged in anywhere and the hiss is still there. I'll try the preamp tube swap tonight and report back.

I guess the question I have is do all of you have experience the same thing - an incredible amount of hiss on the red channel? Does anyone have a stock DSL40C that has minimal hiss on the red channel? I've seen YT videos of the same thing and some posts say it's normal and others say they swapped the amp out and the problem is solved?

Here are a couple of videos of the same issue I have. While it's hard to tell volume on a Youtube video if you compare the hiss relative to the clean channel that gives you an idea of how loud the hiss is. Granted I don't normally play with the gain and volume dimmed but even at 4, 5 etc. is very loud.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

caiokiss said:


> Hi, I've been using the DLC40C for a few years, I've changed the original speaker for the Celestion Creamback. I like the original speaker, but in my opinion the Creamback was a great improvment.
> 
> Here's my cover of Wasted Years from Iron Maiden, using the DLC40C on the guitars:
> 
> http://www.marshallforum.com/threads/iron-maiden-wasted-years-cover-marshall-dsl40c.98054/



That was awesome, nice job on recording all the parts!


----------



## ken361

KraftyBob said:


> Yes, tried the amp with nothing plugged in anywhere and the hiss is still there. I'll try the preamp tube swap tonight and report back.
> 
> I guess the question I have is do all of you have experience the same thing - an incredible amount of hiss on the red channel? Does anyone have a stock DSL40C that has minimal hiss on the red channel? I've seen YT videos of the same thing and some posts say it's normal and others say they swapped the amp out and the problem is solved?
> 
> Here are a couple of videos of the same issue I have. While it's hard to tell volume on a Youtube video if you compare the hiss relative to the clean channel that gives you an idea of how loud the hiss is. Granted I don't normally play with the gain and volume dimmed but even at 4, 5 etc. is very loud.



think mine does if you run the gain and volume that which I would never do! prb wouldnt worry about it is it bad plugged in gain at 7 and volume on 4 red 1? mines pretty quiet also use Mogami golds


----------



## MarshallDog

Mine had hiss but nit sure if it was/is the same level as yours because its just to hard to tell via a video post. However, if you pop in some EH or Tube Store Preferred Series 7025 12AX7s (both very low noise 12AX7's) it will reduce the hiss regardless of the original level. The RED channel is a noisy channel due to the extremely high gain when the gain is cranked up not to mention I feel the stock 12AX7's are junk IMHO.


----------



## KraftyBob

Thanks for the replies guys. My tube swap test was a failure - the 12AX7EH was bad (microphonic) and it's now in the garbage where it should have been a long time ago.

I'm going to call Sweetwater on Friday when I'm working from home and, assuming they agree the intermittent crackling noise is a bad tube, see if they'll cut me a deal on new tubes. Right now I'm thinking of going with the Mesa SPAX7 in V1 & V2 and Mullard 12AX7 in V3 & V4 to start with. Kill two birds with one stone: crackling and tame the hiss a little.

I have to say the more I play this amp the more I'm convinced I made a great purchase. Before I bought this I tested about a dozen other amps (Blackstar HT Club 40, Peavey 6505+, Laney Ironheart Studio, H&K Tubemeister, etc...) and almost pulled the trigger on a mint Mesa F50 for $700. While the Mesa was a great amp in the end it was't the tone I was really looking for (wasn't Marshall enough (duh) and wasn't rectifier-ish either). In the end DSL40C won and I'm certainly happy about that! I guess I'm just more of an EL34 guy vs 6L6.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

KraftyBob said:


> Thanks for the replies guys. My tube swap test was a failure - the 12AX7EH was bad (microphonic) and it's now in the garbage where it should have been a long time ago.
> 
> I'm going to call Sweetwater on Friday when I'm working from home and, assuming they agree the intermittent crackling noise is a bad tube, see if they'll cut me a deal on new tubes. Right now I'm thinking of going with the Mesa SPAX7 in V1 & V2 and Mullard 12AX7 in V3 & V4 to start with. Kill two birds with one stone: crackling and tame the hiss a little.
> 
> I have to say the more I play this amp the more I'm convinced I made a great purchase. Before I bought this I tested about a dozen other amps (Blackstar HT Club 40, Peavey 6505+, Laney Ironheart Studio, H&K Tubemeister, etc...) and almost pulled the trigger on a mint Mesa F50 for $700. While the Mesa was a great amp in the end it was't the tone I was really looking for (wasn't Marshall enough (duh) and wasn't rectifier-ish either). In the end DSL40C won and I'm certainly happy about that! I guess I'm just more of an EL34 guy vs 6L6.


Several of the tube amps I've owned over the years have occasionally developed an intermittent crackling/static noise (including the DSL40C). Most of the time this is because of dust, condensation, etc. that builds up within the tube socket. What I've always done, on the advice of an old amp tech I used to know, is take out the power tubes and spray the pins with electronic contact cleaner. Then, work the pins back & forth in the holes a couple of times. This has worked for me every time, no kidding. Anyway, it's worth a try before you go through the trouble of getting new tubes, you can find a can of contact cleaner at an auto parts store for about 10 bucks!


----------



## ken361

I had power tubes crackle when hitting certain notes playing loud, replaced it was gone!


----------



## KraftyBob

Hi MartyStrat54 - are you out there? Based on all the comments it looks like you're the go to guy when it comes to tubes  Just got a new DSL40C and it has a bad preamp tube. Sweetwater will either replace the one tube with a JJ ECC83, or cut me a deal on 4 new tubes. Here's what I have to choose from:
- Mesa: 12AX7, SPAX7 or 12AT7
- Mullard 12AX7
- JJ: 12AX7/ECC83 or 12AT7/ECC81
- Genalex: 12AU7 or 12AT7 - both Gold Pins
- Various Bugera, Groove Tubes

I'm thinking of going with the Mesa SPAX7 in V1/V2 and Mullard in V3/V4 for now. I've seen others on the DSL thread which at some point I might investigate, but thinking these would at least be better than what comes with the amp. Tone wise I'm not looking to change anything - I like it the way it is. I would like, however, to try and cut down on some of the hiss as it's really noisy - hence the SPAX7.

Thoughts?

Thanks!


----------



## Angus Rhoads

KraftyBob - I have a late-90s MESA SPAX7 in my V1 slot, very low noise and has a nice, even tonal balance with good gain. Somewhere a few pages back I posted a clip of my Lead 2 channel with the gain around 4 and you can hear there's very little hiss - would be even quieter with Lead 1 or on the Classic Gain channel.


----------



## KraftyBob

Angus Rhoads said:


> KraftyBob - I have a late-90s MESA SPAX7 in my V1 slot, very low noise and has a nice, even tonal balance with good gain. Somewhere a few pages back I posted a clip of my Lead 2 channel with the gain around 4 and you can hear there's very little hiss - would be even quieter with Lead 1 or on the Classic Gain channel.



Page 421 

Great tone and awesome playing. Thanks for pointing out that post to me. I set my amp to the same settings that you have and there's a good amount of hiss at that point. Good to hear from someone that has the SPAX7 in V1 and be able to hear how quiet it is. I'm not expecting a miracle - just hoping it will cut down on the hiss somewhat.

On my way home from a customer today I passed a Guitar Center so I stopped in. I turned up a DSL40C with nothing plugged in and it was pretty noisy too. I guess that's the nature of this beast. There happen to be Blackstar HT Club 40 right next to the DSL so I did the same. When turned all the way up it had what seemed about the same amount of hiss. The difference was the Blackstar's hiss wasn't noticeable until maybe 6.5/7 - then it ramped up quickly. Oh, and don't worry - it was simply an unscientific test. I have no intention of downgrading...


----------



## SteelLucky

I have the MESA SPAX7 in V3 and V4, RFT in V1 and V2. Ruby EL34BSTR power tubes. V-type speaker. I really like the sound of the amp as setup. I have some pre-amp hiss on Lead 1 and 2 but nothing out of normal for a tube amp.

The reverb is very there and usable now compared to when the amp had the stock tubes. It seemed that changing v3 or v4 had the big effect on the reverb. But honestly I did both at the same time so I can not tell you which one made the reverb more pronounced, but it is night and day better.

My amp basically failed 3 stock tubes within the first few months I had it. No failures since retubing it over a year ago.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

SteelLucky said:


> I have the MESA SPAX7 in V3 and V4, RFT in V1 and V2. Ruby EL34BSTR power tubes. V-type speaker. I really like the sound of the amp as setup. I have some pre-amp hiss on Lead 1 and 2 but nothing out of normal for a tube amp.
> 
> The reverb is very there and usable now compared to when the amp had the stock tubes. It seemed that changing v3 or v4 had the big effect on the reverb. But honestly I did both at the same time so I can not tell you which one made the reverb more pronounced, but it is night and day better.
> 
> My amp basically failed 3 stock tubes within the first few months I had it. No failures since retubing it over a year ago.


I had the same experience with the reverb - it was almost non-existent with the stock tubes but when I swapped out the 4 preamp tubes all at once it suddenly came to life. When my PI crapped out not long after buying the amp, I popped in my current preamp setup - MESA SPAX7, two regular MESA 12-AX7s and a Sovtek 12-AX7LPS in the PI slot (later added Groove Tube EL34Ms as well).


----------



## Angus Rhoads

KraftyBob said:


> Page 421
> 
> Great tone and awesome playing. Thanks for pointing out that post to me. I set my amp to the same settings that you have and there's a good amount of hiss at that point. Good to hear from someone that has the SPAX7 in V1 and be able to hear how quiet it is. I'm not expecting a miracle - just hoping it will cut down on the hiss somewhat.
> 
> On my way home from a customer today I passed a Guitar Center so I stopped in. I turned up a DSL40C with nothing plugged in and it was pretty noisy too. I guess that's the nature of this beast. There happen to be Blackstar HT Club 40 right next to the DSL so I did the same. When turned all the way up it had what seemed about the same amount of hiss. The difference was the Blackstar's hiss wasn't noticeable until maybe 6.5/7 - then it ramped up quickly. Oh, and don't worry - it was simply an unscientific test. I have no intention of downgrading...


You're always going to get some level of hiss from the Red high-gain channel, but with a good V1 tube you can certainly cut down on some of it. The stock tubes were definitely a little noisier on the Red channel - I was using my Decimator noise gate in the effects loop until I swapped the preamp tubes, now I don't feel much need to do so unless I'm playing at fairly high volume.


----------



## KraftyBob

Angus Rhoads said:


> You're always going to get some level of hiss from the Red high-gain channel, but with a good V1 tube you can certainly cut down on some of it. The stock tubes were definitely a little noisier on the Red channel - I was using my Decimator noise gate in the effects loop until I swapped the preamp tubes, now I don't feel much need to do so unless I'm playing at fairly high volume.




You mention above that you have regular MESA 12AX7's (V2 & V3 I assume). Why those vs the SPAX7? This is my first all tube amp so I'm learning about this stuff as I go so my apologies if the question is basic.

Curious to see if the reverb comes a little more alive too.


----------



## tmingle

KraftyBob said:


> The M13 is pretty quiet but here's what I've tried so far:
> 
> Plugged the guitar into the Effects Loop return to bypass the preamp and it's absolutely quiet on Lead 2 with the Gain and Volume dimmed so I know the power tubes are good and the noise is coming before the effects loop.
> Disconnected and powered off the M13 and VooDoo Lab Control Switcher so the guitar was going straight into the amp and there was no noticeable reduction in hiss - which tells me the hiss is coming from the amp.
> I got a high quality 12ga extension cord and tried different outlets in my house that I know are on different circuits - no change. Also, where my amp is plugged in is the same outlet I used with my other amps and they don't have noise problems. Additionally, while my house was built in the mid-80's we gutted and remodeled it two years ago and the wiring in my office (where I play) is all new.
> Do I have the highest quality cables - no. But they are not the cheap ones either and I use them with my other two amps and have no issues so I'm pretty sure I can rule that out.
> I plug the amp, M13 and VooDoo Lab into a LiveWire "power conditioner" although for the price I paid I'm pretty sure it's just a glorified surge protector but no change when I bypass that either.
> 
> The only thing left that I can think of are the preamp tubes. This morning I found an Electro Harmonix 12AX7EH in my gig bag that came out of my Marshall VS100 a while ago. I don't have a tube tester so I'm not sure if this is good but tonight I'll swap V1 just to see if it makes any difference.
> 
> You mentioned that you swapped out the stock tubes - what did you change them to?


Tungsol Reissue in V1, *Ruby 7025SS HG* in V2-3 & 1 of the stock Marshall JJ's in the PI slot (V4). I switched V1 to a vintage Tungsol over the weekend, which is quiet as well.
I do not recall how noisy the amp was when I bought it, I swapped the preamp tubes pretty quick. I do recall having a noisy cable in the pedal chain, so I replaced all the cables.
I used Livewires for the longer cables in the effects loop, some 6" 90deg cables between & a Mogami 12' cable from the guitar to the pedal board. I had a Line 6 HD500X that was noisy as all hell when set for unity gain.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

KraftyBob said:


> You mention above that you have regular MESA 12AX7's (V2 & V3 I assume). Why those vs the SPAX7? This is my first all tube amp so I'm learning about this stuff as I go so my apologies if the question is basic.
> 
> Curious to see if the reverb comes a little more alive too.


Ha, well, it's actually not that scientific. Back in like '99 or 2000 there was a local music store that went out of business and the owner (whom I had known for years) sold me several of his remaining preamp tubes for really cheap. I ended up with 3 of the SPAX7s and a few more of the normal MESA ones, plus a few of the long plate Sovteks. Since the V1 position in a Marshall is usually the most critical I use the SP there.

Years ago someone said that the long plate Sovteks make good Phase Inverter tubes (V4 in the DSL40C) so I started using them for the PI (also in my JVM combo). I have to say, there is something to it - putting the Sovtek LPS in the PI spot does seem improve the feel of the amp and the textue of the tone a little.


----------



## riefil

riefil said:


> This is the route I basically told him to go. I'm sure he'll be calling on me to trouble shoot with him. As always thanks for the info.


So just a little update. I finally got a chance to get to his house to check out the issue. I came armed with spare tubes, contact cleaner, cordless drill and extra cables. I could hear right away that there was a problem. Went from plugging guitar straight in, to through his pedal board. There was a noticeable difference between the two. Played around with the effects loop switch which also show a difference. A lot more high end when playing through the pedal board. Upon looking closely at his setup, I noticed his Crybaby was tilted forward. I decided to rock it back...voila...all fixed. After calling him a knucklehead a few times, we had a good chuckle. On the upside, we got to play together for the first time in a while.


----------



## BanditPanda

riefil said:


> So just a little update. I finally got a chance to get to his house to check out the issue. I came armed with spare tubes, contact cleaner, cordless drill and extra cables. I could hear right away that there was a problem. Went from plugging guitar straight in, to through his pedal board. There was a noticeable difference between the two. Played around with the effects loop switch which also show a difference. A lot more high end when playing through the pedal board. Upon looking closely at his setup, I noticed his Crybaby was tilted forward. I decided to rock it back...voila...all fixed. After calling him a knucklehead a few times, we had a good chuckle. On the upside, we got to play together for the first time in a while.



Excellent news riefil. Knucklehead owes ya one !! ( although at this point I am uncertain as to which Knucklehead you speak !
BP


----------



## Micky

Cocked Wah Syndrome


----------



## kev67

Micky said:


> Cocked Wah Syndrome


Ha....
Update on the head... jammed with the band 3 times now and I'm about settled on the controls enough for a clean to distortion channel for the mo. 
It's all original bar the clipped c19.
I had soldered it back to original but soon clipped it again.
One thing I've learned is that the dsl40h likes a cheap tangle wood tse501 better than my mahogany bodies ibanez rg with jazz and jb Seymour Duncan pups in it. Meg. ..
Not really been an lp fan but might have to look into them now.


----------



## BanditPanda

kev67 said:


> Ha....
> Update on the head... jammed with the band 3 times now and I'm about settled on the controls enough for a clean to distortion channel for the mo.
> It's all original bar the clipped c19.
> I had soldered it back to original but soon clipped it again.
> One thing I've learned is that the dsl40h likes a cheap tangle wood tse501 better than my mahogany bodies ibanez rg with jazz and jb Seymour Duncan pups in it. Meg. ..
> Not really been an lp fan but might have to look into them now.




LP & Marshall baby !!! Match made in heaven !! lol
Although must say I did swap out the 490R & T for some Duncan Pearly Gates. DSL40 likes 'em real good !


----------



## BanditPanda

Micky said:


> Cocked Wah Syndrome



Hey that's better than " I've got a headache " !


----------



## riefil

BanditPanda said:


> Excellent news riefil. Knucklehead owes ya one !! ( although at this point I am uncertain as to which Knucklehead you speak !
> BP



My nephew! Great kid, but not very mechanically inclined. Doesn't know much about how gear works and really doesn't want to know. After all he has a Guitar/amp tech whose hourly rate is very cheap. $0 per hour


----------



## riefil

Nothing worse than a cocked-wah!


----------



## Bownse

riefil said:


> Nothing worse than a cocked-wah!


I knew there was a wise crack in there somewhere. I just couldn't find it.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

Not being able to find a crack for a cocked-wah is just a damn shame.


----------



## rlowe

Angus Rhoads said:


> Not being able to find a crack for a cocked-wah is just a damn shame.


Now that's better than a cracked window with the Marshall on 10 w/cabs!


----------



## EbLa

I need help guys. i have a problem on my DSL40C. everytime i put the Gain and the Volume at 12 o'clock position or higher, a loud popping sound is coming out. i also try to unplug my guitar to my amp, and turned the knobs (gain & volume) all the way up and there is a hissing noise & crackling noise on both clean/crunch & Lead1/Lead2... i can only use my Amp on 9 o'clock position which is the output is not enough to play live with my band... please help me... thank you so much in advance...


----------



## Bownse

Have you tried it without any pedals?

Trouble shooting:

1. Unplug EVERYTHING and check
2. Plug in 1 thing at a time; checking each time
3. Swap pre-amp tubes (1 at a time); checking each time
4. Check amp tubes (1 at a time); checking each time

If at any point, the noise goes away/comes back, you've found the problem. If you end up permanently swapping the power tubes, do a bias. If nothing stops the noise, do a bias.


----------



## rlowe

EbLa said:


> I need help guys. i have a problem on my DSL40C. everytime i put the Gain and the Volume at 12 o'clock position or higher, a loud popping sound is coming out. i also try to unplug my guitar to my amp, and turned the knobs (gain & volume) all the way up and there is a hissing noise & crackling noise on both clean/crunch & Lead1/Lead2... i can only use my Amp on 9 o'clock position which is the output is not enough to play live with my band... please help me... thank you so much in advance...


----------



## rlowe

EbLa said:


> I need help guys. i have a problem on my DSL40C. everytime i put the Gain and the Volume at 12 o'clock position or higher, a loud popping sound is coming out. i also try to unplug my guitar to my amp, and turned the knobs (gain & volume) all the way up and there is a hissing noise & crackling noise on both clean/crunch & Lead1/Lead2... i can only use my Amp on 9 o'clock position which is the output is not enough to play live with my band... please help me... thank you so much in advance...


Could be a preamp tube, but if you have a spare set of power tubes change them and bias. This sounds like a power tube issue I have dealt with before. Snap, crackle and pop no pun intended.


----------



## rlowe

EbLa said:


> I need help guys. i have a problem on my DSL40C. everytime i put the Gain and the Volume at 12 o'clock position or higher, a loud popping sound is coming out. i also try to unplug my guitar to my amp, and turned the knobs (gain & volume) all the way up and there is a hissing noise & crackling noise on both clean/crunch & Lead1/Lead2... i can only use my Amp on 9 o'clock position which is the output is not enough to play live with my band... please help me... thank you so much in advance...


Could be a preamp tube, but if you have a spare set of power tubes change them and bias. This sounds like a power tube issue I have dealt with before. Snap, crackle and pop no pun intended.


----------



## rlowe

EbLa said:


> I need help guys. i have a problem on my DSL40C. everytime i put the Gain and the Volume at 12 o'clock position or higher, a loud popping sound is coming out. i also try to unplug my guitar to my amp, and turned the knobs (gain & volume) all the way up and there is a hissing noise & crackling noise on both clean/crunch & Lead1/Lead2... i can only use my Amp on 9 o'clock position which is the output is not enough to play live with my band... please help me... thank you so much in advance...


Could be a preamp tube, but if you have a spare set of power tubes change them and bias. This sounds like a power tube issue I have dealt with before. Snap, crackle and pop no pun intended.


----------



## rlowe

EbLa said:


> I need help guys. i have a problem on my DSL40C. everytime i put the Gain and the Volume at 12 o'clock position or higher, a loud popping sound is coming out. i also try to unplug my guitar to my amp, and turned the knobs (gain & volume) all the way up and there is a hissing noise & crackling noise on both clean/crunch & Lead1/Lead2... i can only use my Amp on 9 o'clock position which is the output is not enough to play live with my band... please help me... thank you so much in advance...


Could be a preamp tube, but if you have a spare set of power tubes change them and bias. This sounds like a power tube issue I have dealt with before. Snap, crackle and pop no pun intended.


----------



## rlowe

Error on thread posted multiple X.........


----------



## Bownse

But then, could be a preamp tube.


----------



## EbLa

Bownse said:


> Have you tried it without any pedals?
> 
> Trouble shooting:
> 
> 1. Unplug EVERYTHING and check
> 2. Plug in 1 thing at a time; checking each time
> 3. Swap pre-amp tubes (1 at a time); checking each time
> 4. Check amp tubes (1 at a time); checking each time
> 
> If at any point, the noise goes away/comes back, you've found the problem. If you end up permanently swapping the power tubes, do a bias. If nothing stops the noise, do a bias.




Thanks Bownes. i will try this. but i do not know how to bias... is it ok to swap the pre-amp tubes without doing a bias?


----------



## EbLa

rlowe said:


> Could be a preamp tube, but if you have a spare set of power tubes change them and bias. This sounds like a power tube issue I have dealt with before. Snap, crackle and pop no pun intended.



Thanks rlowe. right now i dont have a spare... i will try to buy online.
How's your Amp now? do you able to use it in full volume and full gain without these popping sounds?


----------



## rlowe

EbLa said:


> Thanks rlowe. right now i dont have a spare... i will try to buy online.
> How's your Amp now? do you able to use it in full volume and full gain without these popping sounds?


This happened a little over a year ago. I switched out bad power tubes for good and this fixed the problem (and of course biased). I also switched out the preamp tubes as some were sketchy. Good Luck!


----------



## Micky

EbLa said:


> Thanks Bownes. i will try this. but i do not know how to bias... is it ok to swap the pre-amp tubes without doing a bias?


You should read the first part of this thread.
It explains a lot...


----------



## EbLa

rlowe said:


> This happened a little over a year ago. I switched out bad power tubes for good and this fixed the problem (and of course biased). I also switched out the preamp tubes as some were sketchy. Good Luck!



what Tubes is best for replacing the existing tubes?
thanks.


----------



## EbLa

Micky said:


> You should read the first part of this thread.
> It explains a lot...



thanks Micky.


----------



## AlanH

EbLa said:


> what Tubes is best for replacing the existing tubes?
> thanks.



This may help....

http://www.marshallforum.com/threads/tube-facts-and-info-by-martystrat54.27574/


----------



## AlanH

EbLa said:


> Thanks Bownes. i will try this. but i do not know how to bias... is it ok to swap the pre-amp tubes without doing a bias?



Try this EbLa:




No need to bias if swapping pre-amp tubes though....


----------



## rlowe

EbLa said:


> what Tubes is best for replacing the existing tubes?
> thanks.


Maybe some other's can chime in on this but, I use JJ from Eurotubes EL34's, E34L's and not EL34's give a punchier, more aggressive sound. Tad power tubes can do the job as well!


----------



## J.LaGrassa

rlowe said:


> Maybe some other's can chime in on this but, I use JJ from Eurotubes EL34's, E34L's and not EL34's give a punchier, more aggressive sound. Tad power tubes can do the job as well!



I like all JJ tubes my self, JJ E34L are clearer and punchier to my ears!


----------



## BanditPanda

I use Svetlana EL34 tubes from the Tube Store.
Here is their brief take on them:\
The Svetlana EL34 is the perfect tube for classic rock. The midrange is very pronounced and the high end is smooth. The bottom end response is not the best, but in a guitar amp it becomes a moot point. In the test amp the mids just rip through the mix. No guitar player is going to get lost in the mix using these tubes. These tubes deliver incredible crunch making them perfect for that ZZ Top, old EVH sound. Seven string down-strokers may not be as pleased because they don't have that crushing bottom end. The Winged "C" SED EL34 tubes definitely have the advantage in bottom end but we find that it can get a bit boomy. For guitar players that need an EL34 tube and play classic rock music we don't think you can find a better tube than the Svetlana EL34./
BP


----------



## Bownse

Here's the tube history of my DSL40


----------



## SoCal Flood

New proud owner of a DSL40c in GC's limited cream color here. So happy with this amp's versatility and how well it pairs with my 2017 Les Paul Standard. A couple questions, but first I just wanna throw out that i've done my very best to read as much of this long (and awesome) thread as my eyes could take over the past couple days. I've also listened to countless youtube demos, but i fear the sound reproduction isn't always truly accurate, so I really value your insights here.

1) I'm leaning heavily towards the Celestian Creamback G12M-65 for it's smoothness, rounded low end and to tame the treble on Ultra Gain 2 and to warm up the clean channel a touch as well. For owners with this speaker, will it be too much to also clip C19? I just don't want to lose allll the bite.

2) I'm mostly into jazz and classic rock tones. I almost got the Fender Princeton '65 reissue because of the rich and smooth cleans which were amazing with jazz. Is the Creamback G12M-65 an ideal speaker for my needs or should I be considering others? The G12H 75, Vintage 30 and WGS ET65 all sound awesome as well from the soundbites i've heard but I think a touch too much treble for me. I know it sounds like i've answered my own question here, but just wondering if I should look at any others before i make my G12M-65 16ohm purchase.

I run this amp simply for home use so i'm not concerned with cutting through for a mix or playing with a band.


----------



## ken361

i dont find too much treble just bias it at 32, some amps were at like 52! let the tubes break in for a few weeks also. it was bright when new and stock bias


----------



## SoCal Flood

Thanks, i'll definitely bias it regardless. I've heard the 70/80 on this amp broken in and while not terrible by any means (I see why some choose to leave it), i'm certain I want to at least change the speaker out.


----------



## ken361

SoCal Flood said:


> Thanks, i'll definitely bias it regardless. I've heard the 70/80 on this amp broken in and while not terrible by any means (I see why some choose to leave it), i'm certain I want to at least change the speaker out.


\

I had 32 hrs on the second 70/80 its not bad at all now, but the ET 65 is louder and more balls by some


----------



## BanditPanda

SoCal Flood said:


> Thanks, i'll definitely bias it regardless. I've heard the 70/80 on this amp broken in and while not terrible by any means (I see why some choose to leave it), i'm certain I want to at least change the speaker out.




Ken & myself have the WGS 65 and more besides on this forum. I would say for the variety of music you play the WGS would certainly be more suited than the Vintage 30 for sure.
Personally I have found the WGS to handle the highs very well. Never the less many have purchased from Sweetwater which offer the Creamback installed at no extra charge and one and all ( I believe ) are very very happy with that speaker. Of course there are many hard rock & metal players on here who more than likely would not be happy with that speaker.
And what are you doing in Ultra Gain 2 playing jazz & classic rock ?
Yes I would say those who can do the c19 clip and it solves that problem.
Congrats on the new amp. It's a good one !
BP


----------



## Michaeld13

Well my amp went silent just now... well almost- if I turn the volume up to 8+ I can her sound and a very distorted one at that on the clean channel- I assume I have a tube that went bad- I have the originals still in there... I looked at the fuses and they looked fine- I assume if they were bad it would not turn or hear sound... Soooo I'm going tube shopping. I tried to do a search for "Marty Strat" - I know he's been referenced a lot here for a tube source. Does he have a website? Open to recommendations all! FWIW I only use the clean channel and get my distortion from my pedals- mainly beacuse I cannot turn up loud at home- but was just getting ready to bring it to my shop where I just bought a 4x12 Marshall cab and was going to try out the gain channels loud- and now this happens... Would happen eventually so not a big deal- but I'd like to hear some suggestions if you don't mind. I have been busy and a little out of the loop/thread for several months. Thanks in advance all!! From what I remember when I played the gain channels they were pretty hissy with the stock setup I had- if that makes any difference. Using pedals on clean stays very quiet but still delivers a great distorted sound.


----------



## ken361

preamp tube can cause that


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Stagecraft sent me pictures of the head cab I ordered it took a while but it looks pretty dam good, i should have it by Friday but unfortunately I will sell be selling it since I dont have the amp any more. Check out there work!


----------



## Michaeld13

I actually compiled quite a lot of screen shots while going through this thread for future refernce- so in regards to my post above- I'll share what tube info I saved and might be helpful in one spot:
"lowered hiss - jjecc83 in v3 - big improvement" - dizzyg12
"new power tubes - WOW huge change in sound JJ 6ca7's" - roger tyria
"new ruby ac7hg+ damn!! sounds amazing- have not touched my overdrive pedals since that tube went in- amazing growl- whole new amp - v2-vj have jj's, jjel34's" - coronado
"ac7+ back in v1 and ac5+ in v2- quiet noise floor- going to keep it this way- coronado don;t get an RFT use the ac7+ and ac5+ for v1 and v2" solarburn
"for v3 and v4= ruby 7025ss hg, for v1 and v2 (same as above from solarb), jj/ruby 34l's ruby 34l-cz el24/kt77/6ca7" - solarburn
"dougs tubes, valve queen, tube store - doug's my first stop" solarburn
"mullard reissue to v2- didn;t notice much of a change- may have tames a touch of fizz- added a tad7025wa to v3- wow huge difference- smoothed out fizz, quited micophonics, added warmth, sustain" unknown
"ruby ac7hg+ same as preferred series or tad 7025s" solarburn
"tad el34b-str with a "3" on the little tad stickers - best sounding amp i've ever owned - tried to tell you tads were awesome" usapatriot / micky
"i added eh preamp tubes 12ax7eh in v2 and v3 12at7eh in v4 - holy batsnot! think i struck gold" usapatriot
"don't bother with balanced pi tube- standard sounds better- marty's advice= just did v1 and v2 and use what sounds best of extra v1/v2 to replace v4" woods
"dougs preamp tube mix eurotube jj34l's not el34's" unknown
"tad el34 stb tubes all difference in the world and much more pronounced reverb" micky
"mullard ri el34's made everything sound better including reverb- switched from tad str tubes" jeffb
"tube store brand 7025 12ax7 sound great- tried many keep coming back to these- lower noise floor, less compressed" marshalldog
"sylvania longplates in all of my marshalls- sweet fat tone guaranteed" jlinde1973
"rft in v2 is the ticket- don;t put in v3 - burnt 2 real quick" steellucky
"v1 mullard cv4004/12ax7, v2 v3 svetlana 12ax7, v4 jjecc83mg, svetlana el34" bandit panda
"no need for added option when buying 12ax7 ac7hg+" solarburn
"tung sols burn up in the v3- philips 7025 kick ass!" dogs of doom
" dsl has tons of gain- make it sound a little more old school try an jan phillips 5751 in V1- has about 70% of the output of a std 12ax7- you'll still have tons of gain- tames some fizz" heritage softail

Wow!! that's what I had... hope it helps- anyone want to vote on the above for me? (my other note collections from this thread are speakers, bias, and pedals )


----------



## Michaeld13

ken361 said:


> preamp tube can cause that


Thank you. I think I'm going to try and whole new set for an upgrade- just not sure what direction to go- as you can tell there are lots of opinions


----------



## SoCal Flood

BanditPanda said:


> And what are you doing in Ultra Gain 2 playing jazz & classic rock ?
> BP



Thanks for the insights! Good point about Gain 2... i primarily play jazz and classic rock, but do enjoy all genres, including hard stuff sometimes, but the latter is not my priority. I'm a novice player btw, so not like I can do any of these tones much justice at the moment. But i'm still trying to get set up properly in hopes that one day I can fully express myself through music


----------



## rlowe

ken361 said:


> i dont find too much treble just bias it at 32, some amps were at like 52! let the tubes break in for a few weeks also. it was bright when new and stock bias


I biased the amp to 34.5 giving it a try and it sounded cleaner, more natural guitar sounding, a keeper for now!


----------



## rlowe

Michaeld13 said:


> Well my amp went silent just now... well almost- if I turn the volume up to 8+ I can her sound and a very distorted one at that on the clean channel- I assume I have a tube that went bad- I have the originals still in there... I looked at the fuses and they looked fine- I assume if they were bad it would not turn or hear sound... Soooo I'm going tube shopping. I tried to do a search for "Marty Strat" - I know he's been referenced a lot here for a tube source. Does he have a website? Open to recommendations all! FWIW I only use the clean channel and get my distortion from my pedals- mainly beacuse I cannot turn up loud at home- but was just getting ready to bring it to my shop where I just bought a 4x12 Marshall cab and was going to try out the gain channels loud- and now this happens... Would happen eventually so not a big deal- but I'd like to hear some suggestions if you don't mind. I have been busy and a little out of the loop/thread for several months. Thanks in advance all!! From what I remember when I played the gain channels they were pretty hissy with the stock setup I had- if that makes any difference. Using pedals on clean stays very quiet but still delivers a great distorted sound.


Probably a bad tube but, check all connections and when changing out tubes use Deoxit D5 or a similar Deoxit product to clean sockets as sockets can sometimes be dowty (dirty). Good stuff mon!


----------



## EbLa

AlanH said:


> Try this EbLa:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No need to bias if swapping pre-amp tubes though....



Thanks AlanH. \m/


----------



## J Saw

J.LaGrassa said:


> Stagecraft sent me pictures of the head cab I ordered it took a while but it looks pretty dam good, i should have it by Friday but unfortunately I will sell be selling it since I dont have the amp any more. Check out there work!



That looks like fine work they do. Do you have to drill your own mounting holes, or are they under the tolex?


----------



## Bownse

I love my 75w Creamback. I can't play fer shyte but this is a sample.

http://www.fjr-tips.org/misc/StopThatTrain.mp3
(a little dirt)
(I'm in the mix as the lead while he sings and dropping back to rhytm when he takes lead)

http://www.fjr-tips.org/misc/DigDemo2.mp3
(screwing around with my then-new Dig pedal)


----------



## Michaeld13

Well now I'm stumped. I forgot that I had some tubes from my old Mesa around- brand new tubes- I replaced each one one by one with a new one- and the amp did not come back- same exact issue- no sound. If I hit the strings with the volume on 10 I hear a cracking/broken up/distorted sound. Any ideas? I thought for sure it was going to be tube... as a side the EL34's in my amp were Tube Amp Doctors (Marshall logo on them) with a "3" on them... I assume those are "TADS" and should be put back in...


----------



## ken361

doesnt matter what el34s, rubys are the same tubes actually. Got them through GC 35.00 im sure that may be your issue


----------



## Michaeld13

Michaeld13 said:


> Well now I'm stumped. I forgot that I had some tubes from my old Mesa around- brand new tubes- I replaced each one one by one with a new one- and the amp did not come back- same exact issue- no sound. If I hit the strings with the volume on 10 I hear a cracking/broken up/distorted sound. Any ideas? I thought for sure it was going to be tube... as a side the EL34's in my amp were Tube Amp Doctors (Marshall logo on them) with a "3" on them... I assume those are "TADS" and should be put back in...


I also just checked the fuses (3 of them that I saw) and they all passed a current thought the multimeter and looked fine.


----------



## Michaeld13

ken361 said:


> doesnt matter what el34s, rubys are the same tubes actually. Got them through GC 35.00 im sure that may be your issue


I replaced those as well- I had some el34 "mesa boogie" tubes that I put in there- no changes :-(


----------



## ken361

Micky may help !


----------



## Michaeld13

GOT IT! The Pentode / Triode swich somehow became pressed inbetween both settings- it was neither left or right- just centered- clicked it over into position and glorious sound has returned!


----------



## ken361

it happened to me once


----------



## Michaeld13

ken361 said:


> it happened to me once


That strangely makes me feel better! Thanks Ken!


----------



## Micky

Michaeld13 said:


> GOT IT! The Pentode / Triode swich somehow became pressed inbetween both settings- it was neither left or right- just centered- clicked it over into position and glorious sound has returned!


Please make sure you put the amp on Standby before switching the Pentode/Triode switch.


----------



## BanditPanda

Michaeld13 said:


> GOT IT! The Pentode / Triode swich somehow became pressed inbetween both settings- it was neither left or right- just centered- clicked it over into position and glorious sound has returned!



Gosh darn it and that was the first thing I was going to suggest you check !


----------



## rlowe

rlowe said:


> Probably a bad tube but, check all connections and when changing out tubes use Deoxit D5 or a similar Deoxit product to clean sockets as sockets can sometimes be dowty (dirty). Good stuff mon!


Probably a bad tube but, (CHECK ALL CONNECTIONS)


----------



## J.LaGrassa

J Saw said:


> That looks like fine work they do. Do you have to drill your own mounting holes, or are they under the tolex?



I believe the holes are there just hard to see, the cab is being delivered today so I will no for sure shortly when I check it out.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Deleted


----------



## Len

J.LaGrassa said:


> I have the new head cab, its now listed for sale if any of you guys are interested!
> 
> http://www.marshallforum.com/threads/fs-head-cabinet-for-a-marshall-dsl40c-brand-new.98169/


You bought the cab just to resell it?

Update - never mind. I just saw your older post.


----------



## J.LaGrassa

Len said:


> You bought the cab just to resell it?
> 
> Update - never mind. I just saw your older post.



There was no way to cancel the order so no choice, 

_Cab has been sold!_


----------



## Michaeld13

There is a new DSL on the way?


----------



## BanditPanda

Michaeld13 said:


> There is a new DSL on the way?



Yes. Go here : http://www.marshallforum.com/threads/new-dsl.97787/


----------



## Michaeld13

BanditPanda said:


> Yes. Go here : http://www.marshallforum.com/threads/new-dsl.97787/


Thanks BP!


----------



## BanditPanda

J.LaGrassa said:


> There was no way to cancel the order so no choice,
> 
> _Cab has been sold!_



Good for you J ! Hoping soon your problems are solved.
BP


----------



## J.LaGrassa

BanditPanda said:


> Good for you J ! Hoping soon your problems are solved.
> BP


Thanks, doing good now I sold a bunch of gear but not all of it.


----------



## mtsalmela80

I've been frustrated with my 40c. On a hail mary whim, I bought 4 EH ax7s from the local shop and popped em in. I cannot get a good gain tone for the life of me now. Green channel crunch with gain dimed is garbage, so is either ultra channel setting. I have a stock "Marshall" ax7 and a couple Mesa ax7s lying around. What would be the best tube to put in v1 to bring my amp back from buzz saw land.


----------



## rlowe

mtsalmela80 said:


> I've been frustrated with my 40c. On a hail mary whim, I bought 4 EH ax7s from the local shop and popped em in. I cannot get a good gain tone for the life of me now. Green channel crunch with gain dimed is garbage, so is either ultra channel setting. I have a stock "Marshall" ax7 and a couple Mesa ax7s lying around. What would be the best tube to put in v1 to bring my amp back from buzz saw land.


A lot of folks like the nos tubes but, most any tube should give you somewhat of a desirable tone (roll tubes). You say you are diming the gain on all channels, I find diming the gain will overload or give too much low end. Try the gain setting at 3 or 7. The Dsl40c has a decent clip circuit technology installed.


----------



## rlowe

rlowe said:


> A lot of folks like the nos tubes but, most any tube should give you somewhat of a desirable tone (roll tubes). You say you are diming the gain on all channels, I find diming the gain will overload or give too much low end. Try the gain setting at 3 or 7. The Dsl40c has a decent clip circuit technology installed.


Is the Dsl 40c new, do you still use the stock tubes, have you biased the amp? check your overall settings. Doug's tubes has a really nice set of 4 preamp tubes designed for the 40c I use in mine. Talk to Doug!


----------



## SteelLucky

I would try the Mesa ax7s in v1 and v3. Leave your new EH in V2 and V4. It is a place to start.


----------



## solarburn

mtsalmela80 said:


> I've been frustrated with my 40c. On a hail mary whim, I bought 4 EH ax7s from the local shop and popped em in. I cannot get a good gain tone for the life of me now. Green channel crunch with gain dimed is garbage, so is either ultra channel setting. I have a stock "Marshall" ax7 and a couple Mesa ax7s lying around. What would be the best tube to put in v1 to bring my amp back from buzz saw land.



Either a 12AX7 AC7HG+ IN V1 or a cheaper alternative JjECC83 MG. Try either.

What volume do you play at? The more volume the more the fizz clears up. What power tubes are in it? Stock or other?


----------



## mtsalmela80

I turned the amp up fairly loud, had it at about 3, which is LOUD already. I will try the mesas in v1 and v3 thanks for the suggestion.

I used to buy JJs when I had my JCM 900, and I always liked that amps tone, even at bedroom volume and I was playing through a 4x12. I notice JJs get insulted around here a lot, but if I roll the other ones I have in there and it doesn't work, I may pick one or two up and try those.

I have the stock power tubes, the "Marshall" labelled ones. I never had it biased, and bought it used. I mean I am probably one of the bottom 5% on here when it comes to knowledge, but would a bias adjustment make or break the amp if I cannot get a good tone even at lower volumes?

I had this thing in church for a couple years, and went to a modeler there so I brought it home and am working on making it cook like a Marshall should.


----------



## BanditPanda

As most will inform you a proper bias can make all the difference.


----------



## Bownse

mtsalmela80 said:


> I have the stock power tubes, the "Marshall" labelled ones. I never had it biased, and bought it used. I mean I am probably one of the bottom 5% on here when it comes to knowledge, but would a bias adjustment make or break the amp if I cannot get a good tone even at lower volumes?
> 
> I had this thing in church for a couple years, and went to a modeler there so I brought it home and am working on making it cook like a Marshall should.



IIRC Mashalls are relabeled JJs.

Bias can seriously affect the tone of this amp. From the factory, they tend to be 41 (which was too hot for my preferance). Different folks go colder (hotter would shorten the life of the tube IMO).

I went to about 36 on my TAD power tubes and have been happy while the tubes have run for more than 2 years without an issue (6/2015 for the last swap-and-bias).


----------



## mtsalmela80

Well I swapped a couple preamp tubes and got a good deal of success. I put a Mesa in v1 and I actually had a JJ which I put in v3, much much better. I'm sure I can improve much, but this is a good starting point. Couldn't push it hard because I have my little girl here, but when I'm alone I'll open her up a bit and dial something good in.

There are little stickers on the power tubes indicating that they were biased at 40mv. When I have some time I'll pull the chassis and check that, maybe pull it down a bit to 36 or so and see how it goes.


----------



## ken361

32 is best I found


----------



## BanditPanda

mtsalmela80 said:


> Well I swapped a couple preamp tubes and got a good deal of success. I put a Mesa in v1 and I actually had a JJ which I put in v3, much much better. I'm sure I can improve much, but this is a good starting point. Couldn't push it hard because I have my little girl here, but when I'm alone I'll open her up a bit and dial something good in.
> 
> There are little stickers on the power tubes indicating that they were biased at 40mv. When I have some time I'll pull the chassis and check that, maybe pull it down a bit to 36 or so and see how it goes.




Good call on the Mesa in V1. As you may already know for this amp V1 will be the most important pre amp tube, as many on here will attest.
BP


----------



## solarburn

mtsalmela80 said:


> I turned the amp up fairly loud, had it at about 3, which is LOUD already. I will try the mesas in v1 and v3 thanks for the suggestion.
> 
> I used to buy JJs when I had my JCM 900, and I always liked that amps tone, even at bedroom volume and I was playing through a 4x12. I notice JJs get insulted around here a lot, but if I roll the other ones I have in there and it doesn't work, I may pick one or two up and try those.
> 
> I have the stock power tubes, the "Marshall" labelled ones. I never had it biased, and bought it used. I mean I am probably one of the bottom 5% on here when it comes to knowledge, but would a bias adjustment make or break the amp if I cannot get a good tone even at lower volumes?
> 
> I had this thing in church for a couple years, and went to a modeler there so I brought it home and am working on making it cook like a Marshall should.



Just to clarify the JJ I recommended is a bit different than the usual ECC83S. The 83MG has some nice meaty mids. 

Learn to bias. It does make a diff. Good to see you trying different preamp tubes as the right combo can put a smile on your face.


----------



## ledvedder

Are there instructions for adding a choke in this thread?


----------



## BanditPanda

ledvedder said:


> Are there instructions for adding a choke in this thread?



If you go here you will find an index created by Micky.
There are articles about installing a choke I believe.
http://www.marshallforum.com/thread...nformation-thread.53780/page-202#post-1322948


----------



## ledvedder

BanditPanda said:


> If you go here you will find an index created by Micky.
> There are articles about installing a choke I believe.
> http://www.marshallforum.com/thread...nformation-thread.53780/page-202#post-1322948



Thanks, but most of those links take me to the beginning of the thread.


----------



## BanditPanda

ledvedder said:


> Thanks, but most of those links take me to the beginning of the thread.



 Take the post # associated with the link and search with that as ref.
Does that work ?


----------



## Micky

The index at page 1 works, the index at page 202 not so much.

One was created before the server swap, the other was after and seems to work better.
I would entertain someone indexing this thread, but it is a lot of work. I would love to work with someone on this, but thare are more readers than posters here...


----------



## BanditPanda

BanditPanda said:


> Take the post # associated with the link and search with that as ref.
> Does that work ?




I tried it. Didn't get me where you need to be. Sorry.
Best hope that Micky is reading and will offer to direct you to where you need to be.
BP


----------



## BanditPanda

Micky said:


> The index at page 1 works, the index at page 202 not so much.
> 
> One was created before the server swap, the other was after and seems to work better.
> I would entertain someone indexing this thread, but it is a lot of work. I would love to work with someone on this, but thare are more readers than posters here...



Yes however the Index on page one offers nothing on a choke install ?
BP


----------



## Bownse

Try using Google to search the forum

http://bfy.tw/EZc8


----------



## Micky

Here is the permalink to the choke photos:

The Official Marshall DSL40c Information Thread

It should work until they change servers again....


----------



## ricky711

Hi,
Yesterday while playing, my amp suddenly fizzed out and and a lovely odor filled the air. I see that the FS1 fuse blew and did not see any fried resistors or leaky caps. I did notice the wires on pin 3 of power tube socket turned black. I thought it was a bad power tube so I popped a new fuse in and a good set of tubes and FS1 blew as soon as I hit standby. I hope a tranny didn't blow!


----------



## ricky711

Since I need service and did the C19 mod, I'm hoping I can install the original if I can find it! It is 470pf 100v?


----------



## Micky

ricky711 said:


> Since I need service and did the C19 mod, I'm hoping I can install the original if I can find it! It is 470pf 100v?


Yes.

Chances are a power tube blew, and it may have taken a component or two out with it...


----------



## ricky711

Thanks Micky,
Unfortunately, I can't find the cap, and I save everything! 
Any suggestions?

Here is a clip of the amp in use after the mod and V-Type speaker.


----------



## ken361

Good jam and tone/playing


----------



## ricky711

Thank you very much.
Too bad the amp blew up!


----------



## Micky

If you bought it new you have a 5-year warranty.
I wouldn't worry about the cap.
If you removed it then it will look better than if you re-soldered something back in...


----------



## BanditPanda

ricky711 said:


> Thanks Micky,
> Unfortunately, I can't find the cap, and I save everything!
> Any suggestions?
> 
> Here is a clip of the amp in use after the mod and V-Type speaker.




Super Excellent boys.! That shaite's right up my alley.
Really good sound & playing.
Hats off !
BP
p.s. A lot to be said for what that V Type is putting out !


----------



## ricky711

BanditPanda said:


> Super Excellent boys.! That shaite's right up my alley.
> Really good sound & playing.
> Hats off !
> BP
> p.s. A lot to be said for what that V Type is putting out !


Thank you!


----------



## ricky711

Micky said:


> If you bought it new you have a 5-year warranty.
> I wouldn't worry about the cap.
> If you removed it then it will look better than if you re-soldered something back in...


The 100pf is still in there, it looks very neat. Would a tech check the value on every component?


----------



## Micky

ricky711 said:


> The 100pf is still in there, it looks very neat. Would a tech check the value on every component?


Nope. Especially if it looks professionally done.


----------



## ledvedder

What size caps do you guys use for C19? I bought these from ebay and they are huge. Much bigger than the cap that was in the amp. https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/292018580282


----------



## Micky

100V should be fine. Those are 500V...


----------



## ledvedder

Micky said:


> 100V should be fine. Those are 500V...



Can it be just a basic ceramic cap? I see that the cap that's currently in C19 is yellow.


----------



## Micky

ledvedder said:


> Can it be just a basic ceramic cap? I see that the cap that's currently in C19 is yellow.


Yes. All of this is already covered very early in this thread.


----------



## ricky711

Micky said:


> Nope. Especially if it looks professionally done.


Great! Thank you for your help.


----------



## rlowe

ken361 said:


> 32 is best I found


Well, a few weeks earlier I decided to try 34.5 power tube bias setting. Sounds more natural/perfect match as in you hear more guitar.


----------



## ken361

rlowe said:


> Well, a few weeks earlier I decided to try 34.5 power tube bias setting. Sounds more natural/perfect match as in you hear more guitar.


thats good, prb a little warmer on top on the red channel


----------



## Micky

rlowe said:


> Well, a few weeks earlier I decided to try 34.5 power tube bias setting. Sounds more natural/perfect match as in you hear more guitar.


I have found (before I heavily modded my amp) that lower/cooler bias yielded a much more full frequency and better sounding cleans. The Classic Crunch channel is where I play mostly and I like to have a more well-defined and accurate tone.


----------



## ken361

If it was more power tube distortion then yes a higher bias is needed


----------



## ken361

BanditPanda said:


> Good call on the Mesa in V1. As you may already know for this amp V1 will be the most important pre amp tube, as many on here will attest.
> BP


Was reading a post on youtube a guy went from a creamback to ET65,Tonal difference was IMMENSE


----------



## ledvedder

ken361 said:


> Was reading a post on youtube a guy went from a creamback to ET65,Tonal difference was IMMENSE



I have a few speakers (ET65, Veteran 30, Greenback, and an old G12H-80). I'm trying to decide which one I want to put in the amp and which two I want to put in my extension cab.


----------



## ken361

love greenbacks sound I never tried them with the dsl,had a 412 years ago with a JVM and Engl


----------



## kev67

I've been all over mine... tone searching..
I usually use crunch with little gain and ultra lead 1 but last jam I stayed in crunch all nite and rolled the gain and guitar volume


----------



## ken361

kev67 said:


> I've been all over mine... tone searching..
> I usually use crunch with little gain and ultra lead 1 but last jam I stayed in crunch all nite and rolled the gain and guitar volume


boosted crunch is a nice thing


----------



## kev67

ken361 said:


> boosted crunch is a nice thing


Aye... though I'm trying to stick to the guitar and amp for now.
I've got a mxr micro amp and a tc spark booster... prefer the spark at the moment.


----------



## KraftyBob

Hey Guys - I've had the DSL40C for close to a month now and am incredibly happy with the amp. I have new tubes on order (Mesa SPAX7 for V1/V2 and JJECC83 for V3/V4) so I'll update when I get those installed. 

In the meantime I've been messing around and posted a few clips on Soundcloud. The first one is the Clean channel with Chorus and Reverb from Line 6 M13. If anyone doubts the ability for this amp to get clean guess again 

The second clip is just the guitar and amp (M13 bypassed) Ultra Gain Lead 1 and playing with the volume on the guitar. Also, the volume is literally at .5 (gain @ 7) as to not drive my family nuts so while it may sound a little "throaty" I think it gives a good idea of how this amp sounds at bedroom levels.

Signal Chain:
PRS Custom 22 --> Line 6 M13 --> DSL40C
Recorded with Samson Go Mic into Garage Band. No post processing





Cheers!


----------



## kev67

KraftyBob said:


> Hey Guys - I've had the DSL40C for close to a month now and am incredibly happy with the amp. I have new tubes on order (Mesa SPAX7 for V1/V2 and JJECC83 for V3/V4) so I'll update when I get those installed.
> 
> In the meantime I've been messing around and posted a few clips on Soundcloud. The first one is the Clean channel with Chorus and Reverb from Line 6 M13. If anyone doubts the ability for this amp to get clean guess again
> 
> The second clip is just the guitar and amp (M13 bypassed) Ultra Gain Lead 1 and playing with the volume on the guitar. Also, the volume is literally at .5 (gain @ 7) as to not drive my family nuts so while it may sound a little "throaty" I think it gives a good idea of how this amp sounds at bedroom levels.
> 
> Signal Chain:
> PRS Custom 22 --> Line 6 M13 --> DSL40C
> Recorded with Samson Go Mic into Garage Band. No post processing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers!



love my dsl mate... not had mine a year yet and still finding new sweetness in there.
only recently started exploring the pentode side


----------



## tmingle

kev67 said:


> Aye... though I'm trying to stick to the guitar and amp for now.
> I've got a mxr micro amp and a tc spark booster... prefer the spark at the moment.


Stick that micro-amp in the loop for a volume boost when needed. It really worked well when I tried it with my old Micro-amp.


----------



## KraftyBob

Got the preamps tubes and started with the Mesa SPAX7's in V1/V2 and the JJECC83's in V3/V4. Better than the stock tubes but thought I'd spend a little time rolling them. Settled on the Mesa's for V1/V3 and JJ's for V2/V4 for now. Seems to be the best configuration for taming the hiss on the Ultra Gain channel (somewhat) and the tone I like the best so far - seems a little more articulate if that makes sense. I'll leave them this way for a while and see how it goes.

I also biased the power tubes to 38mv - they were at 41 from the factory. So far I don't really notice a difference although I've not had a chance to play loud yet so maybe that will be telling. If not, no big deal and I'll leave them at 38 as that's a little easier on the tubes anyhow. Don't really want to go any lower as I'm concerned about losing the gain.

As far as the hiss is concerned I would not go as far to say this is now a quiet amp. Is there less noise - yes. I can turn the volume and gain both up to 5 and have what I consider a manageable amount of hiss. With the volume at 2 or lower (which is still very loud) it's "relatively" quiet. Kick on the M13 Noise Gate and it's non-existent at that level - even with the threshold set low (20-25%).

What I've come to learn is that the phrase "quiet high gain amp" is an oxymoron and the only time it will truly be quiet is when it's powered off. And what fun is that?

Thanks to all for the advice I received on this board. You guys helped me turn a really good amp into a great amp. I suspect my Vox and VS100 will be collecting dust. In fact the VS100 is going up for sale. Don't really play it any more and tired of my home office looking like a mini Guitar Center - well, not really tired of it but since I work from home it would be good to free up some space.


----------



## ken361

You wont loose gain even at 32 it will be smoother on the top end a little sag feel and not yucky tight feel. Its way too hot at 38


----------



## ledvedder

ken361 said:


> You wont loose gain even at 32 it will be smoother on the top end a little sag feel and not yucky tight feel. Its way too hot at 38



Really? I thought 38 was the average setting? Weber's bias calculator shows 38.8 is 70% for a 450 plate voltage.


----------



## ken361

dont go by that my tech said its mostly preamp distortion! plate voltage from say like 430 to 500 30 to 32 is all you need. Less heat in the chassis and less break downs and longer tube life


----------



## ken361

when I put my new tubes in last month i tried it 36 cranked the amp it had more of that dsl high end tight sound i dont like as much and then 30 and then 32 seemed like the sweet spot. I couldn't hit that pinch harmonic on the 2nd fret lick i do when it was set high even on my EVH guitar. It sounded kinda messy so having it lower got a more cleaner warmer tone some


----------



## ken361

My PV was 475 to 480 or so at 32 is right at 60% maybe 33 for you


----------



## ledvedder

I pulled the chassis tonight to put JJ KT77s in it. While in there, I noticed that C19 was already 100pF. The previous owner must have changed it. My plate voltage read 453. I biased it up to 33 and let it sit for a while to check for any drift.

I'm planning on trying several speakers in it. I'm going to try recording clips of each one and posting them to give folks an example of each. Hopefully, I can get decent recordings with my phone, since that's all I have.

The speakers I currently have to test:
Stock 70/80
Celestion G12H-80
Celestion G12M Greenback
WGS ET65
WGS Veteran 30

I should have the result sound clips in the next day or 2.


----------



## BanditPanda

ledvedder said:


> I pulled the chassis tonight to put JJ KT77s in it. While in there, I noticed that C19 was already 100pF. The previous owner must have changed it. My plate voltage read 453. I biased it up to 33 and let it sit for a while to check for any drift.
> 
> I'm planning on trying several speakers in it. I'm going to try recording clips of each one and posting them to give folks an example of each. Hopefully, I can get decent recordings with my phone, since that's all I have.
> 
> The speakers I currently have to test:
> Stock 70/80
> Celestion G12H-80
> Celestion G12M Greenback
> WGS ET65
> WGS Veteran 30
> 
> I should have the result sound clips in the next day or 2.




Sounds like a plan vedder. Look forward to it.
BP


----------



## KraftyBob

Hartke 4x12 Question...

Several years back I was browsing around at Sam Ash and saw a Hartke 4x12 cab for sale and it was pretty inexpensive. For the heck of it I plugged in it and was actually surprised with the sound. Certainly didn't compare to a Marshall cab, but for the price I figured why not - something new to play with. It has "Celestion Designed" speakers but that's not why I ended up buying it. I ran my Vox AD120VT through it on and off for several years and it was decent enough. Had a little better low end than the Vox combo did being a 2x12 open back.

Lately it's been collecting dust so I decided to sell it. Posted it on Craig's List, Offer Up and Reverb for $225, then $215, $200 and now $195. Nothing! Not one inquiry from any of those sites. For the heck of it I decided to open it up to see what was inside as I hadn't even bothered before. Two Surprises:

First: The speakers are labeled “Celestion G12P-80” which from what I’ve read online is essentially the OEM version of the Seventy 80. When I compare the two side by side they are physically identical - Celestion stamp in the frame and all. EDIT: I sent an email to Celestion and they confirmed it's the same speaker.

Second: I took one of the recessed handles off and the cab is made of 5/8” Plywood. I didn't really know what to expect but I was pleasantly surprised.

I checked online and Sweetwater is selling Marshall 1x12 and 2x12 cabs, with the Seventy 80, for $249 & $349 USD and I can’t sell a 4x12 for under $200? I’m guessing the Hartke badge on there is the problem. Now I’m wondering if I should keep this thing after all and eventually swap out at least two of the speakers in an X pattern?

I really wanted to sell this as I got tired of lugging a 4x12 around but I don’t want to be an idiot and give this thing away. This weekend I might have a chance to run my DSL40C (which has the Creamback) through it and crank it up - which will probably tell me if I should still sell or keep it.

Anybody out there running there DSL through a 4x12 with Seventy 80's? Curious as to your experience.


----------



## ledvedder

Is there any information where I can get replacement speaker mounting anchors? When I was removing the 4 screws to change out the speaker, I noticed only 2 were tight. Then, I realized the other 2 holes were missing the anchors that the screws go into.


----------



## ken361

ledvedder said:


> Is there any information where I can get replacement speaker mounting anchors? When I was removing the 4 screws to change out the speaker, I noticed only 2 were tight. Then, I realized the other 2 holes were missing the anchors that the screws go into.


those are a bitch it might of slipped down there somewhere,im being very careful when I remove my speaker because those got loose so i ended up putting some pressure on each one to make sure its stuck into the wood. Hows the amp sounding with the new bias?


----------



## ledvedder

ken361 said:


> those are a bitch it might of slipped down there somewhere,im being very careful when I remove my speaker because those got loose so i ended up putting some pressure on each one to make sure its stuck into the wood. Hows the amp sounding with the new bias?



Well, I haven't had much time to play it. I did play a bit last night. About 30 minutes. Something just felt off to me. A bit sterile, like a sort of warmth was missing. I'm not sure if it's the colder bias or the KT77s. That's what I get for changing more than 1 thing at a time.


----------



## ken361

ledvedder said:


> Well, I haven't had much time to play it. I did play a bit last night. About 30 minutes. Something just felt off to me. A bit sterile, like a sort of warmth was missing. I'm not sure if it's the colder bias or the KT77s. That's what I get for changing more than 1 thing at a time.


it shouldn't be less warmth with the bias set like that, new tubes will be off for like 2 weeks I found out using the Rubys and tungsols el34's I run it low volume during the week and 3 loud hours on the weekend.


----------



## ledvedder

ken361 said:


> it shouldn't be less warmth with the bias set like that, new tubes will be off for like 2 weeks I found out using the Rubys and tungsols el34's I run it low volume during the week and 3 loud hours on the weekend.



I'm thinking about putting the Ruby EL34s back in. There must have been a reason why I had the KT77s on the shelf.


----------



## ken361

KT have more head room?

From our review: "Overall a nice balance of tone in bass, midrange and treble. The breakup is earlier than a 6L6 with more compression but not as compressed as the EL34. If you have a Marshall amp and find EL34’s too compressed and 6550’s too crunchy the JJ KT77 may be just the ticket."

The now rare KT77 tube was introduced by MO-Valve in the late 1950's and has recently been brought back by JJ. They use the same base and biasing as any EL34 tube so they are a great option for substitution in any EL34 amp.


----------



## ledvedder

ken361 said:


> KT have more head room?
> 
> From our review: "Overall a nice balance of tone in bass, midrange and treble. The breakup is earlier than a 6L6 with more compression but not as compressed as the EL34. If you have a Marshall amp and find EL34’s too compressed and 6550’s too crunchy the JJ KT77 may be just the ticket."
> 
> The now rare KT77 tube was introduced by MO-Valve in the late 1950's and has recently been brought back by JJ. They use the same base and biasing as any EL34 tube so they are a great option for substitution in any EL34 amp.



Yes, they seem too. They are very open sounding. I think that's what I'm not liking. I prefer the compression and breakup.


----------



## jeffb

The JJ KT77s sound more in line with a 6L6. Big bass, very clear top, very "hi-fi", if you will. Make the amp sound much "bigger". But they are not as raunchy/ratty as a 6L6 when pushed. I had a love/hate relationship with them in my vsl40. I went with the JJ EL34II and it kept the big soundstage and clarity of the KT77 while getting that EL34 warmth, crunch, and compression you want in a EL34.


----------



## ledvedder

I've also been reading a lot about preamp tubes. Currently, I'm running Tungsol in V1, JJ in V2 and V3, and Sovtek LPS in V4. Is anyone familiar with the TAD 7025wa? I saw a post where MartyStrat recommended it for V1.


----------



## jeffb

One of the things I liked about the KT77 was the clarity and less midrange. It kind of sort of took the Marshall into more of a Hi-Watt mode.

Here is kind of what I was going for- Hi-Watt and Marshall cabs/g12ms.



And here is me with KT77s playing same riff on the vsl green and c19mod red1


----------



## ken361

Hey jeff I thought you might appreciate this  im not as good as you are though. Bedroom levels just under 1. Vocal mic, belle epoch echoplex preamp


----------



## ken361

jeffb said:


> One of the things I liked about the KT77 was the clarity and less midrange. It kind of sort of took the Marshall into more of a Hi-Watt mode.
> 
> Here is kind of what I was going for- Hi-Watt and Marshall cabs/g12ms.
> 
> 
> 
> And here is me with KT77s playing same riff on the vsl green and c19mod red1



those greenbacks shine


----------



## ledvedder

For anyone who has installed a choke, did you use any specific hardware to mount the choke? Or just standard bolts and nuts?


----------



## Micky

ledvedder said:


> For anyone who has installed a choke, did you use any specific hardware to mount the choke? Or just standard bolts and nuts?


Just nuts and bolts. Maybe a grommet.


----------



## jeffb

ken361 said:


> Hey jeff I thought you might appreciate this  im not as good as you are though. Bedroom levels just under 1. Vocal mic, belle epoch echoplex preamp




No way, I am a hack!

Also one of my fave tunes of theirs. Nice job. I also love the pre-amp in the Belle Epoch, still the best echoplex type pre I have owned. 

Are you back to the 70/80? I have been absent for awhile.


----------



## ken361

jeffb said:


> No way, I am a hack!
> 
> Also one of my fave tunes of theirs. Nice job. I also love the pre-amp in the Belle Epoch, still the best echoplex type pre I have owned.
> 
> Are you back to the 70/80? I have been absent for awhile.


ET 65 is back in with some ruby el34's, some are really digging the epoch deluxe now its at 22 volts im running mine at 18v 
new one is here


----------



## BanditPanda

ken361 said:


> Hey jeff I thought you might appreciate this  im not as good as you are though. Bedroom levels just under 1. Vocal mic, belle epoch echoplex preamp





Hey Ken. Haven't been on this Forum a long time however your progress on playing the guitar is very noticeable. You have greatly improved. Keep it up.
BP


----------



## ken361

BanditPanda said:


> Hey Ken. Haven't been on this Forum a long time however your progress on playing the guitar is very noticeable. You have greatly improved. Keep it up.
> BP


wow thanks I appreciate it actually kinda been stuck for a good while trying to get inspired


----------



## Angus Rhoads

I scored a deal on another Marshall Heritage speaker, still new. Spent some time breaking it in and it's settled in nicely. I recorded a little Maiden on Lead 2 with my LP Traditional, 57 Classic Plus pickup - nice & crunchy even with the gain low (settings are in the pic):


----------



## ledvedder

I just installed a set of Ruby EL34BSTR's. The lowest I can get one of the tubes is 37.5. This is with the trim pot all the way to minimum. The other one will go down to 32.5.


----------



## ken361

Angus Rhoads said:


> I scored a deal on another Marshall Heritage speaker, still new. Spent some time breaking it in and it's settled in nicely. I recorded a little Maiden on Lead 2 with my LP Traditional, 57 Classic Plus pickup - nice & crunchy even with the gain low (settings are in the pic):



dig maiden


----------



## ken361

ledvedder said:


> I just installed a set of Ruby EL34BSTR's. The lowest I can get one of the tubes is 37.5. This is with the trim pot all the way to minimum. The other one will go down to 32.5.


switch them see what happens i would be pissed mine were matched good


----------



## ledvedder

ken361 said:


> switch them see what happens i would be pissed mine were matched good



I did. The readings moved with the tubes. 1 just won't go lower than 37 or so.


----------



## ken361

send it back i guess


----------



## ken361

try one of the stock tubes there the same and match it with the 32


----------



## Angus Rhoads

ken361 said:


> dig maiden


I pretty much listen to all the same stuff I listened to 35 years ago - Maiden, Priest, Ozzy, etc. I didn't evolve much, lol


----------



## ken361

Angus Rhoads said:


> I pretty much listen to all the same stuff I listened to 35 years ago - Maiden, Priest, Ozzy, etc. I didn't evolve much, lol


Me 2 saw most of them too, I see priest has a new record coming out and a tour.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

ken361 said:


> Me 2 saw most of them too, I see priest has a new record coming out and a tour.


I miss KK but Ritchie Faulkner is pretty good. Saw them in '83 and '86, fun times.


----------



## ledvedder

ken361 said:


> Hey jeff I thought you might appreciate this  im not as good as you are though. Bedroom levels just under 1. Vocal mic, belle epoch echoplex preamp




Sounds great! How is that echoplex pedal? I'm thinking about getting either this, the MXR version, or the Clinch FX version.


----------



## ledvedder

Micky said:


> Just nuts and bolts. Maybe a grommet.



Thanks for all your help and information! I'm assuming you had to remove the board for this?


----------



## ken361

ledvedder said:


> Sounds great! How is that echoplex pedal? I'm thinking about getting either this, the MXR version, or the Clinch FX version.


I like it, adds some warmth to the red channel with the boost inside the pedal gives it a slightly fatter bigger tone. MXR regular echoplex I tried when I was using pedals for gain and I didnt really like it. Clinch seems like a great pedal, people like it but you dont get the echo effect. I got mine used at GC on line for 150.00


----------



## ledvedder

I installed the choke tonight. I really can't say if it made any difference. I should find out Saturday at band rehearsal when I'm able to crank it some more. Although, it does seem tighter. Maybe it's placebo? Who knows.


----------



## ledvedder

I also tried a set of Mesa EL34's that I had and they biased up just fine, unlike the Ruby's. I set the Mesa's at 34.


----------



## solarburn

ledvedder said:


> I installed the choke tonight. I really can't say if it made any difference. I should find out Saturday at band rehearsal when I'm able to crank it some more. Although, it does seem tighter. Maybe it's placebo? Who knows.
> View attachment 44073
> View attachment 44074



At volume it should be more noticeable and should remain clearer...not mud up. Tighter is another way of describing it.

Let us know after rehearsal what you find.


----------



## KraftyBob

KraftyBob said:


> Hartke 4x12 Question...
> 
> Several years back I was browsing around at Sam Ash and saw a Hartke 4x12 cab for sale and it was pretty inexpensive. For the heck of it I plugged in it and was actually surprised with the sound. Certainly didn't compare to a Marshall cab, but for the price I figured why not - something new to play with. It has "Celestion Designed" speakers but that's not why I ended up buying it. I ran my Vox AD120VT through it on and off for several years and it was decent enough. Had a little better low end than the Vox combo did being a 2x12 open back.
> 
> Lately it's been collecting dust so I decided to sell it. Posted it on Craig's List, Offer Up and Reverb for $225, then $215, $200 and now $195. Nothing! Not one inquiry from any of those sites. For the heck of it I decided to open it up to see what was inside as I hadn't even bothered before. Two Surprises:
> 
> First: The speakers are labeled “Celestion G12P-80” which from what I’ve read online is essentially the OEM version of the Seventy 80. When I compare the two side by side they are physically identical - Celestion stamp in the frame and all. EDIT: I sent an email to Celestion and they confirmed it's the same speaker.
> 
> Second: I took one of the recessed handles off and the cab is made of 5/8” Plywood. I didn't really know what to expect but I was pleasantly surprised.
> 
> I checked online and Sweetwater is selling Marshall 1x12 and 2x12 cabs, with the Seventy 80, for $249 & $349 USD and I can’t sell a 4x12 for under $200? I’m guessing the Hartke badge on there is the problem. Now I’m wondering if I should keep this thing after all and eventually swap out at least two of the speakers in an X pattern?
> 
> I really wanted to sell this as I got tired of lugging a 4x12 around but I don’t want to be an idiot and give this thing away. This weekend I might have a chance to run my DSL40C (which has the Creamback) through it and crank it up - which will probably tell me if I should still sell or keep it.
> 
> Anybody out there running there DSL through a 4x12 with Seventy 80's? Curious as to your experience.




Got a chance to connect the Hartke 4x12 to my DSL today and put some volume to it - no comparison. I'll take my 1x12 Creamback over the 4x12 Seventy 80's any day. And I mean no disrespect to the forum members that like the Seventy 80 in their DSL, as we all know tone is subjective, but for me the Seventy 80's were thin and lifeless. If I had nothing to compare it to I might have come to a different conclusion but the cab is definitely going back up sale. If I start gigging again I'll get a 1x12 with a Creamback, Vtype, V30, etc., and run it as a 2x12 and I expect that will be a great kit.

I'm out of town this weekend but if I get a chance next week I'll record both setups and post here so you guys can hear the difference.

Have a good weekend all.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

KraftyBob said:


> Got a chance to connect the Hartke 4x12 to my DSL today and put some volume to it - no comparison. I'll take my 1x12 Creamback over the 4x12 Seventy 80's any day. And I mean no disrespect to the forum members that like the Seventy 80 in their DSL, as we all know tone is subjective, but for me the Seventy 80's were thin and lifeless. If I had nothing to compare it to I might have come to a different conclusion but the cab is definitely going back up sale. If I start gigging again I'll get a 1x12 with a Creamback, Vtype, V30, etc., and run it as a 2x12 and I expect that will be a great kit.
> 
> I'm out of town this weekend but if I get a chance next week I'll record both setups and post here so you guys can hear the difference.
> 
> Have a good weekend all.


Try a G12-65 Heritage if you can, it suits the DSL really well.


----------



## ledvedder

Well, I had band rehearsal today, and I was disappointed in my results. My sound was quite boomy on the low end, yet very shrill/thin on the high end. The problem is, being the tinkerer that I am, I changed so many things in the past week, I'm not sure what caused the changed.

1. I installed the choke.

2. I swapped my power tubes to Mesa EL34's and set the bias about 33. Before, it was up closer to 38.

3. I changed V1 from a Tungsol to a Ruby 12ax7ac7.

4. I changed V3 from a Chinese 12ax7b to a JJ ECC83S.

5. I swapped one of the speakers in my 212 cab from an ET65 to a Greenback. The other speaker is a Veteran 30.

6. I put the panel on the back of my 212 cab, changing it from a 1/3 partial open back to a closed back.

Any thoughts or recommendations?


----------



## solarburn

ledvedder said:


> Well, I had band rehearsal today, and I was disappointed in my results. My sound was quite boomy on the low end, yet very shrill/thin on the high end. The problem is, being the tinkerer that I am, I changed so many things in the past week, I'm not sure what caused the changed.
> 
> 1. I installed the choke.
> 
> 2. I swapped my power tubes to Mesa EL34's and set the bias about 33. Before, it was up closer to 38.
> 
> 3. I changed V1 from a Tungsol to a Ruby 12ax7ac7.
> 
> 4. I changed V3 from a Chinese 12ax7b to a JJ ECC83S.
> 
> 5. I swapped one of the speakers in my 212 cab from an ET65 to a Greenback. The other speaker is a Veteran 30.
> 
> 6. I put the panel on the back of my 212 cab, changing it from a 1/3 partial open back to a closed back.
> 
> Any thoughts or recommendations?



Do this. Put the Tungsol back in V1 and play again. I got a substantial lift in bottom using the AC7Hg+ which translates evenly using the stock 70/80 with Dimarzio SD's.

Let's go one step at a time here and have some fun dialing it in. The choke may be clearing things up too but I'd keep it and tune around it. The choke will help when you go play in venues with power issues or longer periods of playing at volume.

You could get that JJ 83MG to try in V1.

The veteran 30 in a warmer V30. I have 2 of them. The high mids and treble are being restrained. The GB and Veteran 30 may be not mixing well? The efficiency between them may be an issue? Can't remember the rating for the Veteran 30.

Try just the Tube change then go from there. The JJ 83S in the PI may add mud or too much flatness. Try the LPS in it after changing back V1 to the Tungsol...

I bias mine at 36mv. I'm using the stock 34's.


----------



## ken361

A guy here from the past had a choke put on but he didn't like it. The 212 closed back probably caused it some. You need to tinker alone and be able to test right on the spot, I know its hard for some people.I cant count how many times I would hear different things the next time I would play loud.


----------



## jeffb

The amp has a lot of thumpy lows and feels stiff in a fake sort of way when the resonance is dialed up especially at high volume and with closed back cabs.. It's not very "vintage marshally" sounding at all. It sounds worse with speakers that fart out with lots of lows i.e. g12ms of low wattage...20/25s.

Best thing I ever did was start dropping bass and resonance down to 10 oclock or less and getting some power tubes that kept things "tight" and adding USABLE low end. Not boomy flub

Low end is for the bass player.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

jeffb said:


> The amp has a lot of thumpy lows and feels stiff in a fake sort of way when the resonance is dialed up especially at high volume and with closed back cabs.. It's not very "vintage marshally" sounding at all. It sounds worse with speakers that fart out with lots of lows i.e. g12ms of low wattage...20/25s.
> 
> Best thing I ever did was start dropping bass and resonance down to 10 oclock or less and getting some power tubes that kept things "tight" and adding USABLE low end. Not boomy flub
> 
> Low end is for the bass player.


I agree. I don't like the Resonance control other than for Zakk tones, I generally leave it on zero.


----------



## KraftyBob

Anyone running a V30 or VType 1x12 extension cab with their DSL40C loaded with the G12M-65 Creamback?

I'm wondering how these two speakers pair up with the Creamback. Also, is the extension cab closed or open back?


----------



## Darryl65

I wan to buy a DSL40C but am concerned about there being ni DI output for recording to PC. Can anyone help?


----------



## danvonderheide

Wow, so glad to find I'm not alone. It's driving me and the guys in the band nuts and I have to ride my foot volume constantly so it looks like I'm in the market for tubes at this point. The tone that comes out of this thing with my LP is my identity, so I can't stand the thought of ditching it and finding something else.


----------



## KraftyBob

Darryl65 said:


> I wan to buy a DSL40C but am concerned about there being ni DI output for recording to PC. Can anyone help?



Darry - I went through the same thing when I was looking for a new amp this past summer. I was focused on amps that had some type of DI out. In the end the I ended up getting the DSL40C as the tone ultimately won me over. As far as recording your best bet is a mic anyhow as DI isn't necessarily the best. It seems that most people that record on Youtube, for example, are mic'ing their amp and it looks like the go to mic is a Shure SM57.


----------



## ken361

Right mic it! DI dont sound as good!


----------



## Darryl65

danvonderheide said:


> Wow, so glad to find I'm not alone. It's driving me and the guys in the band nuts and I have to ride my foot volume constantly so it looks like I'm in the market for tubes at this point. The tone that comes out of this thing with my LP is my identity, so I can't stand the thought of ditching it and finding something else.





KraftyBob said:


> Darry - I went through the same thing when I was looking for a new amp this past summer. I was focused on amps that had some type of DI out. In the end the I ended up getting the DSL40C as the tone ultimately won me over. As far as recording your best bet is a mic anyhow as DI isn't necessarily the best. It seems that most people that record on Youtube, for example, are mic'ing their amp and it looks like the go to mic is a Shure SM57.



Cool. Thanks for the reply, but I am recording at home so volume is an issue. I have seen a YouTube video where the dude used the effects loop out and it seemed to work, I just don't want to make the investment and find it doesn't work.


----------



## solarburn

Green clean. Not crunch. Yes boosted. So many Marshall tones in this amp...


----------



## ledvedder

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Green clean. Not crunch. Yes boosted. So many Marshall tones in this amp...




That sounds great! What boost are you using?


----------



## Darryl65

KraftyBob said:


> Darry - I went through the same thing when I was looking for a new amp this past summer. I was focused on amps that had some type of DI out. In the end the I ended up getting the DSL40C as the tone ultimately won me over. As far as recording your best bet is a mic anyhow as DI isn't necessarily the best. It seems that most people that record on Youtube, for example, are mic'ing their amp and it looks like the go to mic is a Shure SM57.


Just to update my earlier message, I am recording demos and sending them half way around the world to my mate who is a drummer so recording quality is not key, but man I want that amp!


----------



## AlanH

Darryl65 said:


> I wan to buy a DSL40C but am concerned about there being ni DI output for recording to PC. Can anyone help?



I think the eagerly awaited DSL40CR will have an emulated output.


----------



## nevermind

Just added the Fryette Power Station to the DSL40C+24.5" Theile Cabinet with Em Swamp Thang and MOW. This really is more fun than a barrel of monkeys!
I have to run out for a bit, but now I can get cranked, power tube driven sounds from my amp w/o getting the neighbors all riled up...

I just swapped out the PI tube for a 5751, pulled the Swamp Thang and put my C90 back in to try and thin up the OD a little bit. FWIW, I also have KT77s for power tubes. It appears I just can't leave anything unsullied or as it came from the factory. Fix until broke I guess!

Here is an obligatory photo with my usual, bad photography:


----------



## kev67

Anyone ran rack gear through their DSL?
Been offered a jmp1 and jfx cheap as chips


----------



## BanditPanda

nevermind said:


> Just added the Fryette Power Station to the DSL40C+24.5" Theile Cabinet with Em Swamp Thang and MOW. This really is more fun than a barrel of monkeys!
> I have to run out for a bit, but now I can get cranked, power tube driven sounds from my amp w/o getting the neighbors all riled up...
> 
> I just swapped out the PI tube for a 5751, pulled the Swamp Thang and put my C90 back in to try and thin up the OD a little bit. FWIW, I also have KT77s for power tubes. It appears I just can't leave anything unsullied or as it came from the factory. Fix until broke I guess!
> 
> Here is an obligatory photo with my usual, bad photography:



Cool NM ! Tell us 'bout the KT77's in the DSL40. I was reading about that tube the other day and if I remember correctly it is known to give a high end which is not really something we needed with that amp. What results have you found with those KT77's?
BP


----------



## MarshallDog

BanditPanda said:


> Cool NM ! Tell us 'bout the KT77's in the DSL40. I was reading about that tube the other day and if I remember correctly it is known to give a high end which is not really something we needed with that amp. What results have you found with those KT77's?
> BP



I've tried JJ KT77s in almost all of my amps. Not much different unless you play almost maxed out and then a tad more headroom. At other lower levels cant really notice much difference but they do add some high freqs to the tone which is not what I wanted.

I find running Mullard EL34's with The Tube Store 7025's helps tamp this amp a lot.


----------



## BanditPanda

MarshallDog said:


> I've tried JJ KT77s in almost all of my amps. Not much different unless you play almost maxed out and then a tad more headroom. At other lower levels cant really notice much difference but they do add some high freqs to the tone which is not what I wanted.
> 
> I find running Mullard EL34's with The Tube Store 7025's helps tamp this amp a lot.



Thanks Dawg. Just curious about the 77's. I run Svetlanas myself with a Mullard in V1.
Diggn' it.
BP


----------



## nevermind

BanditPanda said:


> Cool NM ! Tell us 'bout the KT77's in the DSL40. I was reading about that tube the other day and if I remember correctly it is known to give a high end which is not really something we needed with that amp. What results have you found with those KT77's?
> BP



This thread got me thinking about KT77s:
http://www.marshallforum.com/threads/kt77-vs-el34.13289/

I have the KT77's biased pretty cold, was running a Swamp Thang and MOW in the Theile and I was able to keep eq pretty flat. No tone shift, presence and resonance at 9 o'clock. I was trying to get the DSL to produce a tight, grainy, OD with some punch and I think I found it. No other changes to my amp.

I just popped a 5751 in the PI and C90 into the combo cab with no other changes. I still can't get loud due to the desire to preserve peace in my neighborhood but the Fryette has allowed me to hear some tones that are really close to what I want. The coolest thing was less than 90db 10' from the front of the amp.

FWIW, that nekid Theile cabinet is really starting to bug me. I have to decide how I'm going to finish it. I was thinking of hitting it with the propane torch to blacken the grain and then stain it some shade of red.


----------



## MarshallDog

BanditPanda said:


> Thanks Dawg. Just curious about the 77's. I run Svetlanas myself with a Mullard in V1.
> Diggn' it.
> BP



I like the Svetlanas also, I run them in my Friedman SB 50 and was running them in my Astoria Custom but just popped the KT-66s back in to try them and they sound dam good in the Astoria. Big ass tubes and they put out some heat, wow! The TS 7025 is supposed to be very close to the old Mullards, I love the TS 7025s. 

I like the RI Mullard 12AX7's but I find they are noisy in my amps which pisses me off because I do like them, the EH and TS 7025s are like dead quiet.

Do you find the RI Mullards 12AX7s to be noisy???


----------



## nevermind

Here's my 90db setting on the red channel, amp and PS2 Green channel is even lower dbs. Guitar is LP with 490/498 PUPs, volume pots adjusted to keep volume level down.


----------



## BanditPanda

MarshallDog said:


> I like the Svetlanas also, I run them in my Friedman SB 50 and was running them in my Astoria Custom but just popped the KT-66s back in to try them and they sound dam good in the Astoria. Big ass tubes and they put out some heat, wow! The TS 7025 is supposed to be very close to the old Mullards, I love the TS 7025s.
> 
> I like the RI Mullard 12AX7's but I find they are noisy in my amps which pisses me off because I do like them, the EH and TS 7025s are like dead quiet.
> 
> Do you find the RI Mullards 12AX7s to be noisy???



I am only running the one Mullard in V1 so no I can't say that it is causing any noise.
The rest of the line up looks like this : V1 *- *Mullard CV4004 / 12AX7
V2 & V3 - Svetlana 12AX7
V4 - JJ-ECC83 MG (Mid Gain)
POWER TUBES - Svetlana EL34
Thanks for the info on the TS 7025.
BP


----------



## BanditPanda

Speaking of tubes in the DSL40C is anybody running Gold Lions 12ax7's ?
In what position and with what result?
I see that they are very expensive and just wondering about their effectiveness and contribution.
BP


----------



## ken361

BanditPanda said:


> Speaking of tubes in the DSL40C is anybody running Gold Lions 12ax7's ?
> In what position and with what result?
> I see that they are very expensive and just wondering about their effectiveness and contribution.
> BP


I liked it in the v1 when I had one over the Tungsol,nicer mids.


----------



## ken361

Just got another Fryette SAS EF 86 tube pedal to boost the red,crunch and cleans.Bigger dynamic tones! When I unplug it its like ugh!! Not as good a must try. They do make the clean boost pedal also the Boostassio. The SAS can go cleans to fuzz like tones. Have to buy it used through E bay or GC used or new through Fryettes web site on a special order. Run on a high voltage


----------



## BanditPanda

ken361 said:


> I liked it in the v1 when I had one over the Tungsol,nicer mids.



I'm thinking about a Gold Lion in V4
BP


----------



## solarburn

Hope you guys know the preferred 12Ax7's are the the same as the Tube Amp Doctor 7025S and AC12AX7HG +.

Great tube in V1. However if any of you can divorce yourself from the the hive....put in V1 a JJECCC83MG. 

Cheaper...Mullard like in the mids.


----------



## solarburn

BanditPanda said:


> I'm thinking about a Gold Lion in V4
> BP



Don't waste your money.


----------



## ken361

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Don't waste your money.


Will make it brighter


----------



## BanditPanda

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Hope you guys know the preferred 12Ax7's are the the same as the Tube Amp Doctor 7025S and AC12AX7HG +.
> 
> Great tube in V1. However if any of you can divorce yourself from the the hive....put in V1 a JJECCC83MG.
> 
> Cheaper...Mullard like in the mids.




SB...Have already the JJECCC83MG in V4 and do already have Mullard CV4004 / 12AX7 in V1
BP


----------



## kev67

Went to a different rehearsal room tonight... The Dsl went through the 1960a they rent out... bit of a different eq but classic crunch and UL 1 & 2 (2 with tone shift in) sounded great with T - 6, M - 6.5, B - 4.... classic Gain between 4 & 6 and ultra went from 3 oclock to 9 oclock...

Bit puzzled by the pres and res.. usually have them between 2 and 3 but had pres about noon and couldnt make my mind up with the res... it was either on 2 or about 7


----------



## solarburn

BanditPanda said:


> SB...Have already the JJECCC83MG in V4 and do already have Mullard CV4004 / 12AX7 in V1
> BP



Did you try it in V1 yet? 

The AC7HG+ IN V1 try it.

Let me know what you think...


----------



## solarburn

kev67 said:


> Went to a different rehearsal room tonight... The Dsl went through the 1960a they rent out... bit of a different eq but classic crunch and UL 1 & 2 (2 with tone shift in) sounded great with T - 6, M - 6.5, B - 4.... classic Gain between 4 & 6 and ultra went from 3 oclock to 9 oclock...
> 
> Bit puzzled by the pres and res.. usually have them between 2 and 3 but had pres about noon and couldnt make my mind up with the res... it was either on 2 or about 7



Pick what you think works best for any room. It will change for sure considering room acoustics only. That's why you get to dial. Add other variables like different cabs/speakers and you're dialing in a whole other EQ.


----------



## Bownse

There's an old saying. "Beware the man who owns only one gun."

The meaning is that he will know that one gun inside and out; having become intimately familiar how to use it in every situation.


----------



## kev67

Bownse said:


> There's an old saying. "Beware the man who owns only one gun."
> 
> The meaning is that he will know that one gun inside and out; having become intimately familiar how to use it in every situation.


I have similar saying but its not about a gun


----------



## solarburn

My 70/80 loaded DSL40 pushed by one of my spices into the front of the Green clean(not crunch). Are we having fun yet?



Tell me this MF'r won't do vintage...


----------



## solarburn

Tell me this amp can't do...rawk!


----------



## solarburn

Bownse said:


> There's an old saying. "Beware the man who owns only one gun."
> 
> The meaning is that he will know that one gun inside and out; having become intimately familiar how to use it in every situation.



Yes.


----------



## solarburn

Some of you aren't pulling the trigger. Course I tease....

I've heard talk of mods...but my stock DSL40 keeps jumping fences...

I'm unpolished. No mods. Guitar into amp...anyone game? Friendly quip. We dig our amps.

Me? I enjoy a jam.


----------



## ken361

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Some of you aren't pulling the trigger. Course I tease....
> 
> I've heard talk of mods...but my stock DSL40 keeps jumping fences...
> 
> I'm unpolished. No mods. Guitar into amp...anyone game? Friendly quip. We dig our amps.
> 
> 
> 
> Me? I enjoy a jam.


After a few drinks lastnight I decided to put the 70 80 back in it sounded good and today also! The WGS ET65 the highs were erking me! Especially when boosting. The SAS kicks aSS on the red and crunch. I can get the crunch to break up like red and still stay fat sounding with more dynamics and some 3d sounding.


----------



## Micky

Classic Crunch is where he Seventy/80 shines. (IMO)
It cuts thru the mix and gets me right into AC/DC territory plugged straight in. (RIP Malcom)

Solar is on to something here.


----------



## Bownse

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Some of you aren't pulling the trigger. Course I tease....
> 
> I've heard talk of mods...but my stock DSL40 keeps jumping fences...
> 
> I'm unpolished. No mods. Guitar into amp...anyone game? Friendly quip. We dig our amps.
> 
> Me? I enjoy a jam.



You guys are on different planets from me. There's no way I could do the amp justice. My skills are the weak sauce.


----------



## kev67

Great playing there Solar...
Apart from making a head out of the cab and running it mainly through a 1960b standard cab Ive only clipped c19 on mine and like the clean crunch and lead 1 channels the most (for what i regularly play)
I might solder c19 back in now but i like how its sounding.

Im deciding whether to lob a jmp1 or an od pedal through it and either rack effect or a few colouring pedals in there.
The rack stuff would mainly be for logistics and less things to go wrong (power, leads etc) than for having a gazillion sounds as i dont really use that many tbh (guitar into amp ish)


----------



## solarburn

Bownse said:


> You guys are on different planets from me. There's no way I could do the amp justice. My skills are the weak sauce.



Hellz no! Play that funky music white boy...


----------



## Bownse

Funny story.

1975 - South Korea - Random Army barracks

About 6 brothers from the greater Chicago area were listening to a boom box with that cassette in it. As I walked past on my way to my locker, they (in uninson with the song) loudly proclaimed, "WHITE BOY".

At the time, none of the Wild Cherry album covers had photos of the band so they didn't know why I laughed as I kept walking.


----------



## ken361

Redid with the 70/80 bedroom levels slighty boosted. Need a better mic!


----------



## ken361

ken361 said:


> Redid with the 70/80 bedroom levels slighty boosted. Need a better mic!



My hands weren't working to smooth this morning


----------



## ken361

Anybody put a greenback in and not crank it too loud? wonder how much volume it could take? I had a vox handwired 15 watt that was loud as a 6505 combo at 60 watts. Afraid I would blow the greenback, there's more bass/thump going on when on the crunch when the volume is at 8 Red 4 on the volume I like to play loud on the weekend.


----------



## BanditPanda

ken361 said:


> Redid with the 70/80 bedroom levels slighty boosted. Need a better mic!




Need a better speaker. 70/80 is shaite !! ( Just joking Kenny!! ) I've got my ET65 paired now with the WGS Retro 30.


----------



## BanditPanda

ken361 said:


> Anybody put a greenback in and not crank it too loud? wonder how much volume it could take? I had a vox handwired 15 watt that was loud as a 6505 combo at 60 watts. Afraid I would blow the greenback, there's more bass/thump going on when on the crunch when the volume is at 8 Red 4 on the volume I like to play loud on the weekend.



Don't do it but if you want a higher wattage GB you can look at the SCUMBACKS which the owner is a member here and you can also look at the WGS Invader 50. It is a high powered Greenback WGS version.
https://wgsusa.com/invader
BP


----------



## ken361

BanditPanda said:


> Don't do it but if you want a higher wattage GB you can look at the SCUMBACKS which the owner is a member here and you can also look at the WGS Invader 50. It is a high powered Greenback WGS version.
> https://wgsusa.com/invader
> BP


I know but funds are limited im not working also,might trade something for my echoplex type pedal is someone offers on craigs. The 70/80 has a nicer top end the then the ET believe it or not. Dont really have a issue with it but Greens are great though or a creamback maybe.


----------



## ken361

I thought it was bright as hell that was with the stock bias set high for 8 months then used the WGS british lead and the ET last year till now


----------



## solarburn

ken361 said:


> Redid with the 70/80 bedroom levels slighty boosted. Need a better mic!




That's Rawk mon. Sounds great!


----------



## ken361

solarburnDSL50 said:


> That's Rawk mon. Sounds great!


Think I should use more mids even though it was on 6 or so. All stock cheap guitar but I like it Pete Thorn uses mids at max for older style Marshalls, I tried it Sunday and it wasn't to bright. My pedal boost the high frequencies also


----------



## ken361

Kicking some fuzz up


----------



## Butchiford

ken361 said:


> Think I should use more mids even though it was on 6 or so. All stock cheap guitar but I like it Pete Thorn uses mids at max for older style Marshalls, I tried it Sunday and it wasn't to bright. My pedal boost the high frequencies also


I always run the Mids high on my dsl40. It does seem to give it a more classic sound. Also, I use the green/clean (channel vol wide open) and it works great with the A/C plus pedal. You can roll the guitar vol back on red 1 and it has a mellowed sweet overdrive sound


----------



## Butchiford

Oh and another great sounding pedal on the green/clean is a zendrive. It's no good for rhythm but will give you a great mid-heavy lead tone similar to Robbin ford


----------



## solarburn

ken361 said:


> Kicking some fuzz up





I had a couple shots of Tennessee Honey bud and then got naked.

Love me some Hendrix!

Seriously though I thoroughly enjoyed it.


----------



## Guit

Wish I found this forum before I returned my DSL40C to Sweetwater. :-/ Perhaps I didn't give it a fair shot. 

I did take the money and buy an '82 JCM800 4104 with the money though!


----------



## ken361

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I had a couple shots of Tennessee Honey bud and then got naked.
> 
> Love me some Hendrix!
> 
> Seriously though I thoroughly enjoyed it.


Thanks bro LOL!, the SAS pedal is a powerful AC powered box that does a sweet clean boost to crunch to fuzz with the EF86 tube. The fuzz is really fat sounding, love to try some single coils also.


----------



## Bownse

Dumping my Metal Muff for the SAS. The MM wasn't the tone I was wanting.


----------



## ken361

Bownse said:


> Dumping my Metal Muff for the SAS. The MM wasn't the tone I was wanting.


SAS is a diff kinda distortion, I use my red and crunch with a slight boost or use the sas also in the clean channel for shimmering cleans or a slight crunch with a tad of gain. Or a killer fuzz to sabbath tones. Not a EVH tones though I use the red 1 with a slight boost from it


----------



## ken361

It will squeal on the red if you use too much of it


----------



## Arc Anjil

Guit said:


> Wish I found this forum before I returned my DSL40C to Sweetwater. :-/



And Sweetwater just dropped the price to $650 (US) for the Creamback one (DSL40CST)....


----------



## Bownse

Yeah. I thought I wanted the Metal Muff but after the new wore off, it set idle.


----------



## ken361

Bownse said:


> Yeah. I thought I wanted the Metal Muff but after the new wore off, it set idle.


you buy the sas ? there's 2 at the guitar center web site used


----------



## Bownse

Got it off Reverb for less.


----------



## ken361

Got mine for 100.00, I emailed fryette the new ones are 200.00 and B stock 150.00. Take your time with it takes time to figure it out. let me know on any questions


----------



## Bownse

Mine will be the previous version. Got it for close to the same price as you.


----------



## ricky711

I’ve been happy with the Celestion V-type in my 40C. This is after trying a Creamback, Weber, Eminence, but was curious about the WGS ET65. I just installed one and I’m really diggin’ it. Nice crunch, no overbearing peaks. Anyone else try it?


----------



## ken361

ricky711 said:


> I’ve been happy with the Celestion V-type in my 40C. This is after trying a Creamback, Weber, Eminence, but was curious about the WGS ET65. I just installed one and I’m really diggin’ it. Nice crunch, no overbearing peaks. Anyone else try it?


used a ET 65 for a year but didnt like the highs even when recording the 7080 is smoother


----------



## ken361

see how the les paul responds today


----------



## BanditPanda

ricky711 said:


> I’ve been happy with the Celestion V-type in my 40C. This is after trying a Creamback, Weber, Eminence, but was curious about the WGS ET65. I just installed one and I’m really diggin’ it. Nice crunch, no overbearing peaks. Anyone else try it?



Sure. Quite a few on here in fact. Currently have the ET65 in the bottom cab of a two 1x 12 stack.
Recently got the WGS Retro 30 for the top cab.
The ET65 was the first speaker I swapped into the DSL40C.
Excellent & versatile all around good speaker. An exceptional value to boot.
BP


----------



## ken361

Bownse said:


> Mine will be the previous version. Got it for close to the same price as you.


Man I was getting a good fat stones type crunch today loud.Its a huge sounding pedal once you dial it in! Without it sounds like a toy slight boosting the red and crunch is awesome. Clean channel crunch is great also! Playing loud it really shines. Fuzz tones is a little tricky loud I had the mids maxed today.


----------



## ricky711

BanditPanda said:


> Sure. Quite a few on here in fact. Currently have the ET65 in the bottom cab of a two 1x 12 stack.
> Recently got the WGS Retro 30 for the top cab.
> The ET65 was the first speaker I swapped into the DSL40C.
> Excellent & versatile all around good speaker. An exceptional value to boot.
> BP


Very impressive! I tend to lean towards Celestions, but this sounds quite good and right out of the box too!


----------



## ken361

V type been on the radar for awhile.


----------



## BanditPanda

ken361 said:


> V type been the radar for awhile.



Agreed Kenny ! The V type is most definitely worth checking out.


----------



## solarburn

Hahaaaaaaaha! My bud BanditPanda poo pooed my OR15 clip! I just now realized it was him. Love you bro!LOL

I hear dub this clip rubbish! I agree too!


----------



## BanditPanda

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Hahaaaaaaaha! My bud BanditPanda poo pooed my OR15 clip! I just now realized it was him. Love you bro!LOL
> 
> I hear dub this clip rubbish! I agree too!




whachutalknboutmang? showmedelink.
BP


----------



## ken361

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Hahaaaaaaaha! My bud BanditPanda poo pooed my OR15 clip! I just now realized it was him. Love you bro!LOL
> 
> I hear dub this clip rubbish! I agree too!



Sounds good! is the Orange warmer then the DSL? All amp gain?


----------



## solarburn

ken361 said:


> Sounds good! is the Orange warmer then the DSL? All amp gain?



It has its own thing going but it's as close to a Marshall I've heard and orange getting.


----------



## solarburn

Look under comments in that vid link.


----------



## solarburn

BanditPanda said:


> whachutalknboutmang? showmedelink.
> BP



You give me a thumbs down and say "what rubbish".


----------



## solarburn

It don't matter. We buds now!


----------



## BanditPanda

solarburnDSL50 said:


> You give me a thumbs down and say "what rubbish".



seriously!? lol. Can't find it. Can you give me a page #


----------



## solarburn

BanditPanda said:


> seriously!? lol. Can't find it. Can you give me a page #



I tried and it just shows the vid.

What's funny to me is we've become buds and I didn't realize that was you. Posted a year ago.

I responded back then that your girlfriend got wet and your boyfriend likes disco.LOL


----------



## solarburn

Click the title in the vid and it should take you there...


----------



## BanditPanda

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Click the title in the vid and it should take you there...




Oh fock..on You Tube comments! I was trying to find it on Marshall Forum comments lol !!

Yeah so I checked it on YT and gave it a partial re listen.
Yeah..I was spot on with my comment !


----------



## solarburn

BanditPanda said:


> Oh fock..on You Tube comments! I was trying to find it on Marshall Forum comments lol !!
> 
> Yeah so I checked it on YT and gave it a partial re listen.
> Yeah..I was spot on with my comment !



My Mutherfucker!LOL


----------



## solarburn

You made my day! Glad we got to hang here....and I didn't even bat an eyelash. Here we are...LOL


----------



## solarburn

I have a V series 112 cab that I used with the DSL40 and I was not impressed. However the cab goes to my 007. It's a fucking skinny 112 cab.

I'm thinking I may try one in my DSL40 cab.


----------



## ken361

Wonder how would a Friedman pedal would work in the channel and goose it with SAS!fat juicy brown tones. Might look into this.


----------



## solarburn

ken361 said:


> Wonder how would a Friedman pedal would work in the channel and goose it with SAS!fat juicy brown tones. Might look into this.



Man Im thinking the green channel will love it!


----------



## solarburn

Speaking of the Green side...old clip of greasy tone. Kinda twangy for a Marshall.


----------



## Bownse

ken361 said:


> SAS is a diff kinda distortion, I use my red and crunch with a slight boost or use the sas also in the clean channel for shimmering cleans or a slight crunch with a tad of gain. Or a killer fuzz to sabbath tones. Not a EVH tones though I use the red 1 with a slight boost from it



Mine came in yesterday. Only played with it a bit. Volume is super sensitive (but that's wht everyone reported, so...). Running at about 7 o'clock on volume, 10 o'clock on bias and 11 o'clock on gain sounds great but quite a bit of hum in the circuit. Playing with gain is always that balance between crunch and hum.

I like it so far.

Anyone want a slightly used Metal Muff? PM with an offer.


----------



## solarburn

.


----------



## Bownse

solarburnDSL50 said:


> It has its own thing going but it's as close to a Marshall I've heard and orange getting.



Got the kids a Micro-Terror and Orange mini-cab for their birthday. It's not nearly as flexible as the DSL40c but in its range, it is damned close for a crunchy amp and a heck of a lot more portable.


----------



## solarburn

Bownse said:


> Got the kids a Micro-Terror and Orange mini-cab for their birthday. It's not nearly as flexible as the DSL40c but in its range, it is damned close for a crunchy amp and a heck of a lot more portable.



Great choice bud!


----------



## ricky711

ken361 said:


> see how the les paul responds today


I hear ya, still on honeymoon. I put the 70/80 in an old Crate Vintage Club and it sounds great. V-type is thicker sounding on single notes but liking something about the 65. I did pop in an old Amperex 12ax7 and a CV4004 and it did smooth out the highs. The quest never ends!


----------



## ken361

Bownse said:


> Mine came in yesterday. Only played with it a bit. Volume is super sensitive (but that's wht everyone reported, so...). Running at about 7 o'clock on volume, 10 o'clock on bias and 11 o'clock on gain sounds great but quite a bit of hum in the circuit. Playing with gain is always that balance between crunch and hum.
> 
> I like it so far.
> 
> Anyone want a slightly used Metal Muff? PM with an offer.


 how are you running it? Clean channel,boosting red or crunch? No hum issues here. Can get bassy at times, guess depends on the guitars some too.Getting some squealing today prb the tubes its finicky on Sundays sometimes


----------



## ken361

When playing loud whats your volume at on the red? Mines at 4.


----------



## BanditPanda

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I have a V series 112 cab that I used with the DSL40 and I was not impressed. However the cab goes to my 007. It's a fucking skinny 112 cab.
> 
> I'm thinking I may try one in my DSL40 cab.



I think that's worth a shot.
BP


----------



## solarburn

BanditPanda said:


> I think that's worth a shot.
> BP



Wish I could afford speaker rolling. I've done the Tube homework cause I have a chit load of NOS/CP. Speakers are spendy. My 412 loaded with G12M's sounded best with it. But I want to try some others. I have a Veteran 30, K100 and the V series. Didn't jive with those however the V series cab is tuned to the 007. It's the thinnest 112 I've owned.


----------



## roxynoodle

Hi everyone,
I'm new here to the forum but have read quite a bit here before I took the plunge on my DSL40c a few weeks ago. I love my new amp and it's everything I've dreamed it would be. I'm trying to read through your very extensive thread here, but it is going to take me awhile! The search function is not quite as helpful as I would have hoped, but that is pretty common to forums. I'm hoping while I get caught up in this thread you can answer some quick questions for me.

1. This amp does not need an attenuator due to the volume/gain controls on each channel, correct? Most of the sound is generated by the pre-amp tubes?

2. Is there any benefit to adding an OD pedal like a Bluesdriver or Tubescreamer? I am wondering if I can get that stacked sound using the amp and one pedal?

3. I am also thinking I might like more reverb than what the amp offers. I am looking at the TC Hall of Fame. Anyone have a reverb pedal and feel it is helpful?

4. If I got one or both pedals, do they run better in front of the amp or through the FX loop?

Thanks so much for any assistance you can give me. It will probably be Christmas before I finish reading the whole thread


----------



## Bownse

ken361 said:


> how are you running it? Clean channel,boosting red or crunch? No hum issues here. Can get bassy at times, guess depends on the guitars some too.Getting some squealing today prb the tubes its finicky on Sundays sometimes



I moved it around in the pedal chain and the hum went away.

Tuner, SAS, Silencer (even off), amp.

The other pedals in the loop side (after the Silencer) will be added in once I get some additional 2' patch cables.
...

Roxy, My SAS is a tube-based distortion but you can turn down gain and boost volume as an OD if that's your objective. The reverb (in the 40c) can be improved by rolling pre-amp tubes to something other than stock. While not artificially overstated like some chip amps and not as well executed as a spring reverb, there's more there than at first blush.


----------



## ken361

Bownse said:


> I moved it around in the pedal chain and the hum went away.
> 
> Tuner, SAS, Silencer (even off), amp.
> 
> The other pedals in the loop side (after the Silencer) will be added in once I get some additional 2' patch cables.
> ...
> 
> Roxy, My SAS is a tube-based distortion but you can turn down gain and boost volume as an OD if that's your objective. The reverb can be improved by rolling pre-amp tubes to something other than stock. While not artificially overstated like some chip amps and not as well executed as a spring reverb, there's more there than at first blush.


I need more loud time on mine, today at low volume boosting the crunch at volume at 10 o clock and gain at 7 o clock or so bias at 10 Oclock I was getting high gain as the red channel! but more thicker then the red channel alone or boosted so maybe thats why sweet spot for high gain. Im always adjusting though Boosted cleans are sweet or try fuzz at 10 and 2 o clock


----------



## Micky

Answers:
1. Correct. It has a master volume on each channel. 
When you crank it up over halfway or so, the power tubes start to add their 'flavor' of tone.
2. Yes. An OD or other pedal pushing the front end can deliver some very good tones the amp does not deliver on its own, or are very hard to dial in using EQ. Some pedals work better in the FX loop, others up front. I use a BOSS OD1-x, a modded DS1 and an SD1 depending on what I need.
3. Typically the Marshall digital reverb is 'weak', it is used in several of their amps including the JVM. Other options are available, I use a BOSS RV6 when needed. Many users report that changing the finals to a better quality set 'opens up' the Marshall on-board reverb, I have found this to be the case also.
4. You need to experiment as far as your pedal placement is concerned. Many pedals such as OD and such work better up front, and others such as reverb, delay and EQ work better in the loop. Depends on the sound you are after and your personal preference.

Oh - Welcome to the forum, many new members place a post in the Introduce Yourself section to tell others here a little about themselves.


----------



## Bruno60

Hello, it's been several months since I had the Dsl 40. I quickly replaced the 70/80 by a Creamback H75, then I put a V30. Today I reassembled the 70/80, and I am satisfied because the sound is much more aggressive to my tastes. I think sometimes the criticism is too hard about this speaker, because he associates well with the temperament of Dsl.


----------



## ken361

hows the cream compared to 70/80?


----------



## Bruno60

ken361 said:


> hows the cream compared to 70/80?


not enough "heavy", too round for my taste


----------



## ken361

Bruno60 said:


> not enough "heavy", too round for my taste


cool 7080 wins


----------



## BanditPanda

ken361 said:


> cool 7080 wins



Lol...I have faith Kenny that you'll have another swapped in there soon enuff ! 
BP


----------



## ken361

I like the ET just the top end was a little more in the highs. G12 65 sounds similar without the top end I say greenbacks are my favorite sounds.


----------



## BanditPanda

Kenny if you win lottery I'd like you to try out a V type and the Scumback Greenback clone in the DSL40C.
BP


----------



## ken361

BanditPanda said:


> Kenny if you win lottery I'd like you to try out a V type and the Scumback Greenback clone in the DSL40C.
> BP


Scums are nice


----------



## tmingle

roxynoodle said:


> Hi everyone,
> I'm new here to the forum but have read quite a bit here before I took the plunge on my DSL40c a few weeks ago. I love my new amp and it's everything I've dreamed it would be. I'm trying to read through your very extensive thread here, but it is going to take me awhile! The search function is not quite as helpful as I would have hoped, but that is pretty common to forums. I'm hoping while I get caught up in this thread you can answer some quick questions for me.
> 
> 1. This amp does not need an attenuator due to the volume/gain controls on each channel, correct? Most of the sound is generated by the pre-amp tubes?
> 
> 2. Is there any benefit to adding an OD pedal like a Bluesdriver or Tubescreamer? I am wondering if I can get that stacked sound using the amp and one pedal?
> 
> 3. I am also thinking I might like more reverb than what the amp offers. I am looking at the TC Hall of Fame. Anyone have a reverb pedal and feel it is helpful?
> 
> 4. If I got one or both pedals, do they run better in front of the amp or through the FX loop?
> 
> Thanks so much for any assistance you can give me. It will probably be Christmas before I finish reading the whole thread



1. I tried an attenuator and saw no benefit over the volume controls.
2. The best OD I have tried with mine is the very cheap JOYO Vintage OD. I also use a TS mini.
3. I use the TC HOF reverb & occasionally an MXR 10 band EQ.
4. I use the OD's before the amp & the others in the FX loop.
5. I have recently begun to experiment with using the FX send straight to my soundcard(Scarlett 6i6) and using impulses. So far results are better than expected and improving each time.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

Bruno60 said:


> Hello, it's been several months since I had the Dsl 40. I quickly replaced the 70/80 by a Creamback H75, then I put a V30. Today I reassembled the 70/80, and I am satisfied because the sound is much more aggressive to my tastes. I think sometimes the criticism is too hard about this speaker, because he associates well with the temperament of Dsl.


Try a Classic Lead 80, it has a smoother top end than the 70/80 with a firmer bass, but similiar in the mids. Basically like a better 70/80 and can handle all the gain you can throw at it.


----------



## Bownse

I'm digging this SAS. Yesterday I got some great sounding sustains that I played with for long enough that I lost track of time. Just noodling randomly and smiling all the time.


----------



## ken361

Bownse said:


> I'm digging this SAS. Yesterday I got some great sounding sustains that I played with for long enough that I lost track of time. Just noodling randomly and smiling all the time.


Awesome there's a lot of sounds there


----------



## roxynoodle

Thanks for the replies, guys! I still have 400 old pages to get caught up on in this thread.

The TC Hall of Fame is the reverb pedal I'm looking at for the DSL.

Yesterday I picked up as a spontaneous buy: a Peavey Vypr VIP 1. Mostly I was interested in it for playing and recording my acoustic-electrics and bass but it looks like a fun little thing for guitar as well. It was local, in near perfect condition, and $60 so I brought it home.

My DSL has the Creamback but I bought it that way from Sweetwater, so haven't tried the stock 70/80 in it, although I have used that speaker in a friend's amp, and it sounded good in his.

Today I found a Marshall 1960 cab on CL. Cosmetically it is a little beat up, but the price is good at $200 so I may make the trip to get it tomorrow. At some point I was going to make a 2 x 12 cab to go with my DSL, but for $200 that 4 x 12 is tempting.

I'm very interested in the choke some of you put on the DSL, but I admit to feeling like a moron here. I'm not sure what it does for the amp, or where/how it installs. From info I read, I think I found the correct one. Ok, the forum says I can't post a link because I haven't been here long enough.

But, is there someone I can PM with that can explain to me in more detail why I would want it and how to install it? I'm very mechanically inclined, but not all that versed on digital electronics boards. Mods to an amp are a completely new idea to me although I can do pretty much anything to a guitar except maybe repair a smashed in acoustic.


----------



## nevermind

roxynoodle said:


> I'm very interested in the choke some of you put on the DSL, but I admit to feeling like a moron here. I'm not sure what it does for the amp, or where/how it installs. From info I read, I think I found the correct one.



What sound are you trying to achieve you don't hear now?


----------



## roxynoodle

nevermind said:


> What sound are you trying to achieve you don't hear now?



Therein lies the problem because I'm very happy with the amp. So without knowing what benefit the choke may add, I have no idea if this is a mod I should do. I hope that doesn't sound like a stupid answer. It is an inexpensive mod if it will add something worthwhile.


----------



## nevermind

roxynoodle said:


> Therein lies the problem because I'm very happy with the amp. So without knowing what benefit the choke may add, I have no idea if this is a mod I should do. I hope that doesn't sound like a stupid answer. It is an inexpensive mod if it will add something worthwhile.



I'm a fix-until-broke kinda person and know exactly what your talking about. I do it all the time. I ask myself that question to determine if the current gear will do what I want with minimal mods. If it needs more than a tweak or two, it's the wrong bit o' kit IMHO.

The more time I get on the DSL the more I keep hearing what I'm looking for, which is the tight crunch with some punch. I think the 1x12 cabinet I added has a lot to do with it and the tube rolling I've done hasn't gotten me closer to what I hear in my head.


----------



## ken361

nevermind said:


> I'm a fix-until-broke kinda person and know exactly what your talking about. I do it all the time. I ask myself that question to determine if the current gear will do what I want with minimal mods. If it needs more than a tweak or two, it's the wrong bit o' kit IMHO.
> 
> The more time I get on the DSL the more I keep hearing what I'm looking for, which is the tight crunch with some punch. I think the 1x12 cabinet I added has a lot to do with it and the tube rolling I've done hasn't gotten me closer to what I hear in my head.


boost it for more gain and crunch


----------



## roxynoodle

Yes, I need to understand what the choke actually does  That would help me a lot. I guess I should try to research this.

Right now I'm studying up on tubes since obviously I should have extras here at the very least, and I'm one of the people getting a lot of hiss even without a guitar hooked up. I'm suspecting v3 here based on the amount of the thread I've read so far. Tube Depot has a sale on some of them through tonight so I need to make a decision quick on what to buy.

I see some are using the JJ EC803s in v1? And would the JJ EC833 be fine in the other 3? As for trying a ton of different tubes and trying to zero in on the perfect tone, not sure I'm ready for that yet. Just need some backups and probably a replacement for one of them.


----------



## roxynoodle

I bought a full set of the Ruby branded JJs. Going to do some searching with the pre-amp tubes first to see if I do have a problem tube. Then I will likely change them out to the Ruby's and keep the stock tubes as spares, and mark which one wasn't right. Later I will add some more tubes to my collection to experiment with.


----------



## solarburn

roxynoodle said:


> Yes, I need to understand what the choke actually does  That would help me a lot. I guess I should try to research this.
> 
> Right now I'm studying up on tubes since obviously I should have extras here at the very least, and I'm one of the people getting a lot of hiss even without a guitar hooked up. I'm suspecting v3 here based on the amount of the thread I've read so far. Tube Depot has a sale on some of them through tonight so I need to make a decision quick on what to buy.
> 
> I see some are using the JJ EC803s in v1? And would the JJ EC833 be fine in the other 3? As for trying a ton of different tubes and trying to zero in on the perfect tone, not sure I'm ready for that yet. Just need some backups and probably a replacement for one of them.



The choke will let you run the amp hard without getting muddy. So you would notice it more playing at higher volumes and places that suffer from less than ideal power to your amp.

If I was gigging regularly with this amp I would do the choke an OT upgrade. The OT can give you better feel such as more sustain and response. Not night and day but it adds up to an improvement in feel. The choke will clean mud up especially if power is dirty. Again not night and day but clean stable power helps feel/tone too.


----------



## solarburn

roxynoodle said:


> I see some are using the JJ EC803s in v1? And would the JJ EC833 be fine in the other 3? As for trying a ton of different tubes and trying to zero in on the perfect tone, not sure I'm ready for that yet. Just need some backups and probably a replacement for one of them.



My experience with JJ803'S is they are microphonic in this combo.

Try the JJ ECC83MG in V1. Then what ever you want. I've found a few combos I dig and not just one set covers it all. V1 & V2 really set the preamp tone. Have fun experimenting. I have a shit load of ANOS and CP tubes that I tune with. Your ears are what you will be pleasing.


----------



## ken361

Bruno60 said:


> Hello, it's been several months since I had the Dsl 40. I quickly replaced the 70/80 by a Creamback H75, then I put a V30. Today I reassembled the 70/80, and I am satisfied because the sound is much more aggressive to my tastes. I think sometimes the criticism is too hard about this speaker, because he associates well with the temperament of Dsl.


Is the v30 really worth it over the 70/80? I have a offer for one but not sure i would like the spiky highs


----------



## roxynoodle

My tube knowledge is not very good. My first amp was a long ago thing I bought in 1981 as a new, 13 year old guitarist. It had 1 power and 2 pre-amp tubes if I recall and I only changed them when it sounded really bad. Or stopped working altogether lol!

Fast forward to the now 49 year old me and finally I have an amp that I really want. 

When the new tubes get here I'll play with those and see how it goes. I would also like to go through the whole board with a magnifier and see if there are any cold or missing solder joints, and take care of those if I find them.

I'm definitely a play at home musician. I know things are changing for female guitarists, but back when I was young, no one wanted a female guitarist in their band. I don't sing, so, guitar is really all I do. Any time anyone wanted to get together and jam, it wasn't because they wanted to jam; it was because someone wanted a date. Now I'm old so the only guys looking for dates are either past age 75 or under 21 (not sure what the young guys are thinking since girls their age look the best they probably ever will). I will likely remain a lone guitarist


----------



## BanditPanda

Hi Kenny. Just my  worth but stick to your guns. You've got the ET65 and the 70/80.
Lets face it your next one if any should be a Greenback style.
Save the $ and when the time is right get the one you really want (GB). Until you do you'll always be wondering and perhaps wasting $ on others.
BP


----------



## ken361

Just wondering


----------



## ken361

roxynoodle said:


> My tube knowledge is not very good. My first amp was a long ago thing I bought in 1981 as a new, 13 year old guitarist. It had 1 power and 2 pre-amp tubes if I recall and I only changed them when it sounded really bad. Or stopped working altogether lol!
> 
> Fast forward to the now 49 year old me and finally I have an amp that I really want.
> 
> When the new tubes get here I'll play with those and see how it goes. I would also like to go through the whole board with a magnifier and see if there are any cold or missing solder joints, and take care of those if I find them.
> 
> I'm definitely a play at home musician. I know things are changing for female guitarists, but back when I was young, no one wanted a female guitarist in their band. I don't sing, so, guitar is really all I do. Any time anyone wanted to get together and jam, it wasn't because they wanted to jam; it was because someone wanted a date. Now I'm old so the only guys looking for dates are either past age 75 or under 21 (not sure what the young guys are thinking since girls their age look the best they probably ever will). I will likely remain a lone guitarist


I rolled all kinds of tubes including NOS after almost 3 years on the dsl I put the stock preamp tubes this year and liked it more more gain and aggressive. When the amp was new and bright with the stock bias set high I changed the tubes right a way to mellow it out some! Some amps are designed around those tubes and I believe the dsl is one of them. Joe Morgan of Morgan amps said that to one guy to put those JJ's back in I didnt like those tubes for a long time prb 10 years! since i started! except a Bugera 6260 it smoothed it out more.


----------



## BanditPanda

roxynoodle said:


> My tube knowledge is not very good. My first amp was a long ago thing I bought in 1981 as a new, 13 year old guitarist. It had 1 power and 2 pre-amp tubes if I recall and I only changed them when it sounded really bad. Or stopped working altogether lol!
> 
> Fast forward to the now 49 year old me and finally I have an amp that I really want.
> 
> When the new tubes get here I'll play with those and see how it goes. I would also like to go through the whole board with a magnifier and see if there are any cold or missing solder joints, and take care of those if I find them.
> 
> I'm definitely a play at home musician. I know things are changing for female guitarists, but back when I was young, no one wanted a female guitarist in their band. I don't sing, so, guitar is really all I do. Any time anyone wanted to get together and jam, it wasn't because they wanted to jam; it was because someone wanted a date. Now I'm old so the only guys looking for dates are either past age 75 or under 21 (not sure what the young guys are thinking since girls their age look the best they probably ever will). I will likely remain a lone guitarist



Roxy...you're still the most beautiful 49 year old lone guitarist I have ever met on line.
Your most important tubes in the preamp section are V1 and V4.(from what I have read)
Rubys should be fine. After some time you'll be able to season your amps flavor as you desire.
Choke effect is next to negligible with out the transformer change to go with it and in the end those changes, unless you're audiophillic, may not be worth the time & money.
You said you're very happy with the amp, just like I am with mine. At this time some tubes are only changes you may want to make.
BP


----------



## roxynoodle

I did lower the bias when it got here. Mine was running hottish at around 42. It is now at 37.5 thereabouts. I will check it again of course, maybe both before and after the tube change.


----------



## JimmyDee

OK, so I've been lurking on this thread for about a month now...
I've gotten to page 50 of 444, and have already learned a PILE about my DSL40C.
I bought the amp about 9 months ago, and figured it sounded pretty good.

Unfortunately, I am a _'tinkerer'_, and threads like this one are poision to me.
They always cost me money...

In the past month, here's what I've done to my amp:

The C19 cap mod. 
It sounded better with the 70/80 speaker, but when I upgraded to a Creamback... it sounded better with the cap soldered back in.

Tube swap. I got a set from The Tube Store. They made a dramatic difference.
7025/12AX7 preamp tubes
Tung Sol EL34B power tubes (matched)
http://www.thetubestore.com/Shop-by-Amp/Marshall-DSL40C-Amp/Marshall-DSL40C-Premium-Package
I mean... they sound REALLY nice. Huge improvement over the stock tubes.
The stock tubes were biased to 45mV.
When I put in the new tubes, I biased then to 38mV, but after a few days of playing, I decided to experiment...
I now have them biased at just below 35mv (floating between 34.5 and 35.0).
This seems to be the _'sweet spot'_ for these power tubes.

Then the fever hit, and I swapped out the 70/80 speaker for a Celestion Creamback.
Except, I ordered the 75 watt one, with the bigger magnet. G12H7516
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/G12H75
WOW! I thought the tubes were an improvement... the speaker is what makes the most improvement!
On clean, this thing brings out the strings crystal clear. On crunch, it absolutely kicks you in the stomach.

I just ordered the Classic Tone choke. Should be here in about a week.
http://store.triodestore.com/40-18058.html
Will post my thoughts on this, and probably some pics of my modded amp, once I get the choke in.

I also ordered a set of Belton tube shields for the 4 preamp tubes.
http://www.thetubestore.com/Parts-A...e-Caps/Belton-Tube-Shield-for-Chassis-Cut-Out
They pop right into the tube cutout hole, and should stabilize them from vibration.

Pretty sure I've nulled my Marshall warranty...


----------



## roxynoodle

BanditPanda said:


> Roxy...you're still the most beautiful 49 year old lone guitarist I have ever met on line.
> Your most important tubes in the preamp section are V1 and V4.(from what I have read)
> Rubys should be fine. After some time you'll be able to season your amps flavor as you desire.
> Choke effect is next to negligible with out the transformer change to go with it and in the end those changes, unless you're audiophillic, may not be worth the time & money.
> You said you're very happy with the amp, just like I am with mine. At this time some tubes are only changes you may want to make.
> BP



I don't see myself suddenly going cork sniffer and audiophile crazy. If I was anyway, wouldn't I have wanted a hand wired top of the line amp? Really, this is the best amp I've ever had! And I write songs that "no one will ever hear" as an acquaintance told me as her reason why playing guitar is a "waste of time". In her mind though watching TV all evening is not a waste of time? Needless to say we don't talk much anymore as I'm at a point in my life where I just don't want negative and opinionated people around me 

Thanks for the compliments


----------



## ken361

Mines at 32 I thought 36 was too hot sounding and fizzy some. So the 75 sounds good I thought they might be brighter from what I read i could be wrong and there cheaper


----------



## BanditPanda

JimmyDee said:


> OK, so I've been lurking on this thread for about a month now...
> I've gotten to page 50 of 444, and have already learned a PILE about my DSL40C.
> I bought the amp about 9 months ago, and figured it sounded pretty good.
> 
> Unfortunately, I am a _'tinkerer'_, and threads like this one are poision to me.
> They always cost me money...
> 
> In the past month, here's what I've done to my amp:
> 
> The C19 cap mod. After a week, I found that I really did't like the sound, so I soldered it back in.
> 
> Tube swap. I got a set from The Tube Store. They made a dramatic difference.
> 7025/12AX7 preamp tubes
> Tung Sol EL34B power tubes (matched)
> I mean... they sound REALLY nice. Huge improvement over the stock tubes.
> The stock tubes were biased to 45mV.
> When I put in the new tubes, I biased then to 38mV, but after a few days of playing, I decided to experiment...
> I now have them biased at just below 35mv (floating between 34.5 and 35.0).
> This seems to be the _'sweet spot'_ for these power tubes.
> 
> Then the fever hit, and I swapped out the 70/80 speaker for a Celestion Creamback.
> Except, I ordered the 75 watt one, with the bigger magnet. G12H7516
> WOW! I thought the tubes were an improvement... the speaker is what makes the most improvement!
> On clean, this thing brings out the strings crystal clear. On crunch, it absolutely kicks you in the stomach.
> 
> I just ordered the Classic Tone choke. Should be here in about a week.
> Will post my thoughts on this, and probably some pics of my modded amp, once I get the choke in.
> 
> I also ordered a set of Belton tube shields for the 4 preamp tubes.
> They pop right into the tube cutout hole, and should stabilize them from vibration.
> 
> Pretty sure I've nulled my Marshall warranty...



Great first post and welcome to the Forum.
Looks like you're off to a great start with your DSL40C.
Lots of fun and good times.
BP


----------



## BanditPanda

roxynoodle said:


> I don't see myself suddenly going cork sniffer and audiophile crazy. If I was anyway, wouldn't I have wanted a hand wired top of the line amp? Really, this is the best amp I've ever had! And I write songs that "no one will ever hear" as an acquaintance told me as her reason why playing guitar is a "waste of time". In her mind though watching TV all evening is not a waste of time? Needless to say we don't talk much anymore as I'm at a point in my life where I just don't want negative and opinionated people around me
> 
> Thanks for the compliments



 You still might !
Record your songs and post them on Sound Cloud, You Tube or wherever. People will hear them.
Negative and opinionated people abound, even here.
BP


----------



## roxynoodle

Negative and opinionated people are everywhere. It is amazing how many people want to run other peoples' lives. You are pretty much stuck with your family, but you aren't stuck with your friends. If they want to go through life being miserable, they can, but I would rather try to find the bright side of things.


----------



## Bruno60

ken361 said:


> Is the v30 really worth it over the 70/80? I have a offer for one but not sure i would like the spiky highs


It depends what style you play. My treble is 3 and presence does not exceed 5, otherwise it pierces the ears.


----------



## ken361

Run mine at 6 on both no problem unless im really def


----------



## Bownse

ken361 said:


> Awesome there's a lot of sounds there



And I didn't even explain it right. I can dial in that at house volumes. No need to crank it to 11.


----------



## ken361

works great like that


----------



## Bownse

roxynoodle said:


> I know things are changing for female guitarists, but back when I was young, no one wanted a female guitarist in their band.



Broad generalization and their loss. I can think of Suzi Quatro, Joan Jett, Lita Ford, Bonnie Raitt, and more from then just off the top of my head.

Glad you're back. I walked away from bass in '79 and came back when I was 60 at the ground floor with guitar). Too late to get good and too feeble to lug my crap to gigs. Fun times, learning, and smiles is where it's at.


----------



## Micky

roxynoodle said:


> I did lower the bias when it got here. Mine was running hottish at around 42. It is now at 37.5 thereabouts. I will check it again of course, maybe both before and after the tube change.


As the creator of this thread, it is nice to see newer members here reading it and learning about this amp. Good to see you have what it takes to perform basic maintenance (such as bias) and want to know more about it.

It is incredibly important to have a spare set of tubes, as well as a fuse or two in case of problems. Anyone thinking that a brand new tube amp will not present itself with problems after a while is crazy. Tubes wear out, fuses blow and things just happen. A combo is even more susceptible to things because of the vibrations that playing causes. Things like microphonic tubes will show up rather quickly, and other things rear their ugly head when you use an amp, especially if you gig with it.

Mods like the choke upgrade are sometimes difficult to describe the result, even though they are relatively easy to implement. If you understand the circuit a little bit and know some basic electronics, as well as have some soldering skills you can pull it off rather easily. The technical aspect of the mod makes sense, but it is the 'feel' that might be most noticeable.

In the circuit, R111 is a large resistor (270-ohm, 7 watt) that places a purely resistive load on the B+ rail which is connected to the Center Tap (CT) of the Output Transformer (OT) and feeds the screens of the Power Output (PO) tubes. As designed, a resistor is probably a few cents cost, and does an adequate job at lowering the voltage to an acceptable value for the tubes. 

A choke on the other hand, which is basically a resistive transformer, introduces inductance into the circuit which has one major advantage - It smooths out the voltage somewhat and will block any AC current in the circuit reducing hum. Now there are those who will pick my explanation apart noting that I am overlooking several other aspects of the circuit, blah blah blah and have missed the point totally. So what.

Replacing the resistor with a choke is relatively easy, if you can solder and know how to remove and replace the chassis as well as work on hi-voltage electronics safely, you can handle it. The major factors to consider are 1- Will it make any difference? 2 - Will it increase the value of the amp? and 3 - Can I do the mod properly? These are questions I cannot answer except for the fact that if I bought an amp WITHOUT a choke, I would have to put one in it. It makes a difference to me, especially when I play loud.

Sorry for the long post, but I felt the same as you did when I first got the amp...


----------



## roxynoodle

Thanks, Micky. It does sound like the choke may be of benefit to me. At the moment I want to wait for the new tubes and find out if one of mine is not quite right. I do live in a rural area and I know I've been told I have "dirty country power". But 3 years ago they replaced all our poles, lines, and added transformers so now every house has a transformer, and brought it all up to code. We shall find out soon I guess if all the hiss I have is a tube or something else.

I'm using a nearly new Mogami gold cable. I suppose it doesn't hurt though to switch it out with another and see if there is any difference.

Can anyone tell me offhand what fuses the DSL uses? I don't remember seeing it in the owner's manual and I forgot to check when I was in there. My old amp blew fuses fairly often, that I remember.


----------



## Micky

The mains fuse (FS1) is a slo-blo 2 amp T2AE250V (for 120V mains)
The HT fuse (FS2) is a slo-blo 500mA T500mAE250V (for all mains voltages)
The lo-voltage fuse (FS3) is a slo-blo 1 amp T1AE250V (for all mains voltages)

I can't remember the exact physical size (5mm?) I haven't changed one in a long time...


----------



## ken361

If you have bad power that will do it, also is your house grounded? running in power strip that should tell ya. Love to try a Brown Box it can lower the voltage so your amps sound better. Ever hear guys playing in bars they say there sound sucks from place to place. The brown box you will have good tone all the time! Great for vintage amps and the newer ones, I know a guy he loves it!


----------



## roxynoodle

My house has been updated to 200A service although there is still some old, non-grounded wiring in it. I'm not using that for the amp. Last year I did major service by adding new circuits to almost every room in the house and they all test exactly right. No problems with any other equipment.


----------



## JimmyDee

This might sound like a moronic question... but how do you add your location to your profile?
ie. I see that ken361 is from Detroit Rock City, and Micky is from Vermont, and BanditPanda is from Montreal.

How do I add that to my profile? (I'm from Vancouver, by the way)
I can't find anywhere in my profile settings to add this (or any) information about myself.

When I registered my account, it only asked for my birth date. That's the only thing that shows up, when I look at my profile.


----------



## Micky

JimmyDee said:


> This might sound like a moronic question... but how do you add your location to your profile?
> ie. I see that ken361 is from Detroit Rock City, and Micky is from Vermont, and BanditPanda is from Montreal.
> 
> How do I add that to my profile? (I'm from Vancouver, by the way)
> I can't find anywhere in my profile settings to add this (or any) information about myself.
> 
> When I registered my account, it only asked for my birth date. That's the only thing that shows up, when I look at my profile.


In the top right, click on your name. 
Then edit the information you wanna change.


----------



## ken361

JimmyDee said:


> This might sound like a moronic question... but how do you add your location to your profile?
> ie. I see that ken361 is from Detroit Rock City, and Micky is from Vermont, and BanditPanda is from Montreal.
> 
> How do I add that to my profile? (I'm from Vancouver, by the way)
> I can't find anywhere in my profile settings to add this (or any) information about myself.
> 
> When I registered my account, it only asked for my birth date. That's the only thing that shows up, when I look at my profile.


Scroll under your name at the right hand corner click personal details


----------



## roxynoodle

Micky said:


> The mains fuse (FS1) is a slo-blo 2 amp T2AE250V (for 120V mains)
> The HT fuse (FS2) is a slo-blo 500mA T500mAE250V (for all mains voltages)
> The lo-voltage fuse (FS3) is a slo-blo 1 amp T1AE250V (for all mains voltages)
> 
> I can't remember the exact physical size (5mm?) I haven't changed one in a long time...



These are probably what I want then for the 2A and 1A?
https://www.amazon.com/BCP-pack-Slow-Blow-Glass-Fuses/dp/B01ANBZV4U

Found a different assortment where they were at least packaged separately by size to not drive me crazy and had good reviews. Just in case I added a set of the 6mm x 30mm as well. I should be good for a long time then.


----------



## ken361

Tried my other echo pedal in the loop and it actually works good! designed for up front because the preamp warms it but I found it too dark I will have to compare this weekend. Mids were maxed this time,thought I used a little too much effect i just came up with it.


----------



## ken361

Micky said:


> In the top right, click on your name.
> Then edit the information you wanna change.


would a 1/2 amp 250 volts work for the FS1 T2AE250V I bought these last year I had a hard time finding the right ones at Radio Shack. When my tech had the amp he put a new one. Im prb sure mine wont work if i need them


----------



## JimmyDee

ken361 said:


> Scroll under your name at the right hand corner click personal details



When I click on that, I get this:
*Marshall Amp Forum - Error*
You do not have permission to view this page or perform this action.


----------



## Micky

roxynoodle said:


> These are probably what I want then for the 2A and 1A?
> https://www.amazon.com/BCP-pack-Slow-Blow-Glass-Fuses/dp/B01ANBZV4U
> 
> Found a different assortment where they were at least packaged separately by size to not drive me crazy and had good reviews. Just in case I added a set of the 6mm x 30mm as well. I should be good for a long time then.


For the 2A mains only.


----------



## Micky

JimmyDee said:


> When I click on that, I get this:
> *Marshall Amp Forum - Error*
> You do not have permission to view this page or perform this action.


You may need 10 or so posts before you can edit.


----------



## JimmyDee

roxynoodle said:


> These are probably what I want then for the 2A and 1A?
> https://www.amazon.com/BCP-pack-Slow-Blow-Glass-Fuses/dp/B01ANBZV4U
> 
> Found a different assortment where they were at least packaged separately by size to not drive me crazy and had good reviews. Just in case I added a set of the 6mm x 30mm as well. I should be good for a long time then.



Yes, those are exactly the fuses you need.


----------



## Micky

ken361 said:


> would a 1/2 amp 250 volts work for the FS1 T2AE250V I bought these last year I had a hard time finding the right ones at Radio Shack. When my tech had the amp he put a new one. Im prb sure mine wont work if i need them


No. You need a slo-blo 2A (T2AE250V)


----------



## Micky

JimmyDee said:


> Yes, those are exactly the fuses you need.


Mains only, not for the others.


----------



## Micky

ken361 said:


> would a 1/2 amp 250 volts work for the FS1 T2AE250V I bought these last year I had a hard time finding the right ones at Radio Shack. When my tech had the amp he put a new one. Im prb sure mine wont work if i need them


This is what you need for FS2.


----------



## roxynoodle

ken361 said:


> Tried my other echo pedal in the loop and it actually works good! designed for up front because the preamp warms it but I found it too dark I will have to compare this weekend.




Enjoyed your vid! We aren't far apart as I'm in NW Ohio.


----------



## roxynoodle

Wasn't one of the fuses 0.5A? (500mA). I bought an assortment that has those plus the 1A and 2A.


----------



## JimmyDee

Here's the fuses you need for the main circuit board:

FS-2
1/2 amp:
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Bel-Fuse/5ST-500-R/?qs=MvPYbBWWJytDUwU/DhnzAw==

FS-3
1 amp:
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Bel-Fuse/5TT-1-R/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtxU2g/1juGqdOFGo22YdioG19qxHRCVn51Bn0zn4dzKA==


----------



## Micky

roxynoodle said:


> Wasn't one of the fuses 0.5A? (500mA). I bought an assortment that has those plus the 1A and 2A.


The link you posted was the 2A only.


----------



## roxynoodle

Micky said:


> The link you posted was the 2A only.



Yes, my first one was, and they also had the option on the 1A. Then I found an assortment kit with 10 of each of the 0.5, 1 and 2A fuses and bought that one.


----------



## BanditPanda

JimmyDee said:


> This might sound like a moronic question... but how do you add your location to your profile?
> ie. I see that ken361 is from Detroit Rock City, and Micky is from Vermont, and BanditPanda is from Montreal.
> 
> How do I add that to my profile? (I'm from Vancouver, by the way)
> I can't find anywhere in my profile settings to add this (or any) information about myself.
> 
> When I registered my account, it only asked for my birth date. That's the only thing that shows up, when I look at my profile.



JD..you're over looking something. Start over.


----------



## ricky711

I know tone is subjective, but I found the V-type, Weber Legacy, Creamback, ET65 all sound better to me than the 70/80. The 70/80 is not a bad speaker, it actually sounds quite good with a Blues Jr & Crate Vintage Club I own. I went back to the 70/80 recently just to see if it would feel right, but just didn't do it for me. I feel the C19 mod to a different value (not clipped) and speaker upgrade is essential if your a tone freak. I still think a Greenback sounds great in this amp in the triode mode. I still haven't found a speaker that has that tone at a higher wattage. My first replacement speaker was the Creamback, to me it was nothing like a Greenback.


----------



## ricky711

ken361 said:


> I like the ET just the top end was a little more in the highs. G12 65 sounds similar without the top end I say greenbacks are my favorite sounds.


I'm finding the same thing.


----------



## ken361

ricky711 said:


> I know tone is subjective, but I found the V-type, Weber Legacy, Creamback, ET65 all sound better to me than the 70/80. The 70/80 is not a bad speaker, it actually sounds quite good with a Blues Jr & Crate Vintage Club I own. I went back to the 70/80 recently just to see if it would feel right, but just didn't do it for me. I feel the C19 mod to a different value (not clipped) and speaker upgrade is essential if your a tone freak. I still think a Greenback sounds great in this amp in the triode mode. I still haven't found a speaker that has that tone at a higher wattage. My first replacement speaker was the Creamback, to me it was nothing like a Greenback.


maybe a Skumback would work


----------



## roxynoodle

Another quick question. My understanding is that if I want to add an extra cab and run it with my speaker in the DSL40c together then I need a 16 ohm cab, correct? Because together they would run in parallel and use the 2 8 ohm jacks?

I was looking at the Marshall 2 x 12 horizontal placement one at Sweetwater but it is 8 ohm only.


----------



## ken361

roxynoodle said:


> Another quick question. My understanding is that if I want to add an extra cab and run it with my speaker in the DSL40c together then I need a 16 ohm cab, correct? Because together they would run in parallel and use the 2 8 ohm jacks?
> 
> I was looking at the Marshall 2 x 12 horizontal placement one at Sweetwater but it is 8 ohm only.


you got it right


----------



## ken361

ricky711 said:


> I know tone is subjective, but I found the V-type, Weber Legacy, Creamback, ET65 all sound better to me than the 70/80. The 70/80 is not a bad speaker, it actually sounds quite good with a Blues Jr & Crate Vintage Club I own. I went back to the 70/80 recently just to see if it would feel right, but just didn't do it for me. I feel the C19 mod to a different value (not clipped) and speaker upgrade is essential if your a tone freak. I still think a Greenback sounds great in this amp in the triode mode. I still haven't found a speaker that has that tone at a higher wattage. My first replacement speaker was the Creamback, to me it was nothing like a Greenback.


took a good 35hrs of loud time to come around, I went back and forth a couple times also


----------



## JimmyDee

BanditPanda said:


> JD..you're over looking something. Start over.


I got it fixed...
For whatever reason, it wasn't allowing me to modify my profile.
Maybe I had to get a few posts in, before I could modify things? 
I dunno... but I just checked again, and it let me access my profile page and modify.
All good now.


----------



## ricky711

ken361 said:


> maybe a Skumback would work


Yep, that's been on the back burner.
Are you still using the ET65?


----------



## ken361

ricky711 said:


> Yep, that's been on the back burner.
> Are you still using the ET65?


Not at the moment


----------



## ken361

This guy had some issues! wonder if QC has dropped some on the newer models? I never hear any bad about these amps in 3 years

Rick Noski Ken Aiello one amp tech told me he worked on 4 dsl40c last week alone all with similar problems cracking hissing noises... one guy brought his back 5 times changed tubes compositors, solder broken , tube socket loose ... on and on .. I was told by more than 1 amp tech that the dsl combo is nothing but trouble

Like
· Reply · 4 mins


----------



## roxynoodle

Last night it made a loud pop, which it has never done before. I was playing a guitar with humbuckers, too.

One thing I noticed was that when I moved closer to the amp, the hissing got very quiet, which makes me think something is picking up disturbance from the guitars. I'm leaning more and more to a tube that is microphonic. I should add that when I moved closer the guitar height was above the amp's height. Earlier I was sitting down on the couch directly across from the amp, about 12 feet, as that is my cord length.


----------



## ken361

what cable you use? I use Mogami there pricey but good


----------



## roxynoodle

ken361 said:


> what cable you use? I use Mogami there pricey but good



Mogami gold, and I just got it like 6 weeks ago. I bought it on ebay from someone who makes them. He has an excellent reputation around the forums and has 100% feedback. It has one silent end on it so you don't get that "cha-zunk" when you switch guitars.

I guess I should make sure it's not the cable and try one of my others.


----------



## roxynoodle

Hope we can post an ebay link. It is this one except in 12' so I can be lazy and sit on the couch.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/MOGAMI-252...hash=item4ace796abf:m:mfwgaz4z5twdfnsbS3NyTlQ

I guess I shouldn't say it is Mogami gold. Mogami cable with Neutrik gold connectors.


----------



## Bownse

> A choke on the other hand, which is basically a resistive transformer, introduces inductance into the circuit which has one major advantage - It smooths out the voltage somewhat and will block any AC current in the circuit reducing hum.



Thanks. A concise basic explanation without muddying up with complexity.

Another thing to consider if you suspect dirty power is to slave your amp off your computer UPS. You are using UPSs on all your chip stuff (TV, receiver, computer) in the house, right? It's a simple matter if your amp is in the same room with the computer or moving the UPS over to the amp for a short test.

Lugging a UPS to gigs is an option but batteries tend to be heavy, so it's a judgement call. While a choke helps the amp everywhere, it doesn't help pedals and other equipment that might also be used with AC power.

Then there's the whole discussion about the affects of inexpensiving UPSs vs "Pure Sine Wave" UPSs.

[Can't find an emoji for holding up my hand and rocking it side to side with that "ehhh... maybe/maybe not" motion.]

But then there's nothing saying you can't install a choke AND use a UPS.

Since putting my 40 on a UPS my tubes have lasted longer. May be coincidental to the tech going through everything as part of my breaking the C into a Head+Cab. It may be the benefit of getting the tubes out of a combo. It may be confirmational bias (I spent money/did something so I hear/see a difference).


----------



## ken361

roxynoodle said:


> Enjoyed your vid! We aren't far apart as I'm in NW Ohio.


Thx my girlfriends son moved out to Columbus its nice out there


----------



## Angus Rhoads

Talking about the Classic Lead 80 the other day made me curious to see if I would still like in the DSL (it's been in my JMD the last few years) so I swapped it in - man, what a different sound from the V30 and G12-65 that I had gotten used to, waaaaaay less mids. I started goofing around with some pedals and ended up with a cool Zakk/No More Tears tone - made this scrappy phone recording but it lost a lot of the low-end for some reason. This is with a Maxon VOP9 pushing Lead 1, and a BOSS DD-3 in the loop:


----------



## ken361

Angus Rhoads said:


> Talking about the Classic Lead 80 the other day made me curious to see if I would still like in the DSL (it's been in my JMD the last few years) so I swapped it in - man, what a different sound from the V30 and G12-65 that I had gotten used to, waaaaaay less mids. I started goofing around with some pedals and ended up with a cool Zakk/No More Tears tone - made this scrappy phone recording but it lost a lot of the low-end for some reason. This is with a Maxon VOP9 pushing Lead 1, and a BOSS DD-3 in the loop:



Sounds good I need a real les Paul again


----------



## nevermind

Bownse said:


> Another thing to consider if you suspect dirty power is to slave your amp off your computer UPS. You are using UPSs on all your chip stuff (TV, receiver, computer) in the house, right? It's a simple matter if your amp is in the same room with the computer or moving the UPS over to the amp for a short test.
> 
> Lugging a UPS to gigs is an option but batteries tend to be heavy, so it's a judgement call. While a choke helps the amp everywhere, it doesn't help pedals and other equipment that might also be used with AC power.



I'm with you 1000% on clean power!!!

I went with a fairly robust line conditioner. The power in this area goes off 3 times a week and I believe it's fried two of my LCD TVs. I don't run any high end electronics anymore w/o a line conditioner. These aren't cheap but neither is an amp or 50" flat panel.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000512LA/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## Angus Rhoads

ken361 said:


> Sounds good I need a real les Paul again


Track down one of the older Classics with a 500T bridge p/u, they sound good through everything!


----------



## ken361

Dropped the ET65 back in again its more lustfull


----------



## Len

Thought I'd sneak in a slightly off-topic question here. Anyone use a Secret Freq pedal with their DSL40? I tried one, but it seems to really kill the low frequencies (removed the thump).


----------



## KraftyBob

*DSL40C Static/Buzzing when playing low notes
*
Lately I've been noticing a static or buzzing on my amp when I play low notes (5th/6th string). I don't notice it on the clean channel although I haven't had a chance to turn it up that loud. The recording below is from the crunch channel in standard tuning. It's really noticeable near the end. I can hear it on the red channel if I turn the gain way down as I believe the higher gain masks the sound. The sound seems like it's coming from the speaker itself and not a vibration in the cabinet.

What I've checked so far - nothing made a difference:

Tried different guitars plugged straight into the amp
Tried the same guitars on my other amp (no noise)
Changed cables
Swapped the speaker from my other amp
Tightened all the screws
Removed the back panel to see if that was vibrating
Changed the preamp tubes one at a time (I don't have spare power tubes so those were not changed)


Thanks.


----------



## ken361

prb the power tubes


----------



## Bruno60

Hi People,
After putting the 70/80 in place (finally it fits the DNA of this amp), I disconnected the C19, but the sound was too flat and nice IMO. I sold it and I found the aggressiveness of my DSL! I also put 4 JJ ecc083s and JJ EL 34 II (these tubes are between the el34 and the el34 L). I think it is not necessary to change too much on this amp, just roam the speaker, and use the EQ. You have to use this amp for what it is: a brute who hits hard!


----------



## roxynoodle

I've tried different cables with no change. My tubes should be here today although I may not get around to rolling new ones until closer to the weekend. I need to get groceries and I might make a trip tomorrow for what seems to be a very sweet 1960b cab for $300. I'm still debating that purchase. On the one hand I don't NEED it, but I suspect I would really, really enjoy it. I'll probably end up passing on it and semi-regretting that decision.


----------



## KraftyBob

KraftyBob said:


> *DSL40C Static/Buzzing when playing low notes
> *
> Lately I've been noticing a static or buzzing on my amp when I play low notes (5th/6th string). I don't notice it on the clean channel although I haven't had a chance to turn it up that loud. The recording below is from the crunch channel in standard tuning. It's really noticeable near the end. I can hear it on the red channel if I turn the gain way down as I believe the higher gain masks the sound. The sound seems like it's coming from the speaker itself and not a vibration in the cabinet.
> 
> What I've checked so far - nothing made a difference:
> 
> Tried different guitars plugged straight into the amp
> Tried the same guitars on my other amp (no noise)
> Changed cables
> Swapped the speaker from my other amp
> Tightened all the screws
> Removed the back panel to see if that was vibrating
> Changed the preamp tubes one at a time (I don't have spare power tubes so those were not changed)
> 
> 
> Thanks.




UPDATE:
I talked to Sweetwater Tech support today. Ruled out the power tubes as the buzzing is not there when I plug my guitar into the Effects Loop return (I should have thought to check that myself). The issue is likely in the preamp and since I've swapped all the preamp tubes and it didn't fix it they are sending me a replacement. 

I certainly appreciate that they are doing this but this is the second DSL40C I've had problems with in two months. The first one the reverb didn't work at all. I know these are notorious for having a weak reverb but this was zero reverb DOA. Now the buzzing sound.

I'm starting to lose faith in this model. Hopefully the third time is a charm with this one as I won't do this a 4th time. This is rather disappointing as I've had other Marshall's and never had this much trouble.


----------



## ken361

check the bias at all? cant really tell anything from the sound clip


----------



## MarshallDog

With these cheap built amps sometimes you get a dud or two so hang in there Buddy once you get a good one you may be pleased....good luck


----------



## Carlo

Hi guys, 
been a while now so i thought i share a recording with my DSL played on my personal sweetspot..
https://1drv.ms/u/s!Aknr2MVyBoOP1GLZObVYQWHio9oD
hope this link works. Its a once only situation because it was so f.....g loud that our ears hurt afterwards. It was recorded in our rehearsal location which is in the basement of my mates house and has a very low cladded ceiling and the band-members had to adapt to my volume level. As you hear, our drummer beats the shit out of his drumkit. DSL is on L1, no pedals except Wha, this was the one with the Texas Heat, rest is stock.
Meanwhile this Amp is sold and i got myself an Orange Crush CR120 Head which i play through my 2x12 closed cab with the celestion 70/80 s which came out both dsl's. The DSL simply didnt work for rehearsal. The other one with the creamback im hurling around to our gigs. 
Recording is done by a Tascam DR05


----------



## Bruno60

Hello,
Can you tell what is the type of bias on the dsl40?
- Class A Fixed Bias
- Class AB Fixed Bias
- Cathode Bias 
Thanks !


----------



## Micky

Class AB fixed bias.
No need for multiple threads...


----------



## ken361

I think i have to revisit these fender heavy picks again! the cleans really come out better then the .70 tortex pick which I find a little dull now. Crunch and red 1 seems better the highs really come out more and a nice low end. Amazing what a pick can do. I know for sure Angus Young was using these my friend has one that he threw out at him

https://www.amazon.com/Fender-Class...=1512575667&sr=8-2&keywords=fender+heavy+pick


----------



## Bownse

KraftyBob said:


> *DSL40C Static/Buzzing when playing low notes
> *
> Lately I've been noticing a static or buzzing on my amp when I play low notes (5th/6th string).



I had a hum that was resolved by moving all my cables farther from my power strip. I have a DIY pedal board with a power strip mounted for easier mobility. By moving my upper row of pedals (and cords) down (away from the power strip) the hum went away completely. 3"-6" max.

Take away? Try keeping even the best AC adapter power, cables and pedals away from unshielded power strips.


----------



## KraftyBob

ken361 said:


> check the bias at all? cant really tell anything from the sound clip



When I swapped the preamp tubes I biased it at 38 (was 41). I also tapped the preamp tubes with a chopstick and didn't hear anything out of the ordinary so that all looks good.

In response to Brownse: It's not an electrical hum. Also, I keep all my guitar cables away from power cables/power strip as far as possible. Aside from the OD hiss I don't have any complaints about that type of noise. The buzzing/static I'm getting is after you strike a chord/note on typically the A or low E strings and as is starts to fade out the buzzing comes in.

The new amp is coming today - they sent it next day! I'll test if first and hoping/assuming all is good, swap in my new preamp tubes and then return the old amp.


----------



## ken361

Funny how Eurotubes recommends 42 to 45 millivolts thats crazy so they can sell more tubes? I wrote them to see what he says about that


----------



## KraftyBob

KraftyBob said:


> When I swapped the preamp tubes I biased it at 38 (was 41). I also tapped the preamp tubes with a chopstick and didn't hear anything out of the ordinary so that all looks good.
> 
> In response to Brownse: It's not an electrical hum. Also, I keep all my guitar cables away from power cables/power strip as far as possible. Aside from the OD hiss I don't have any complaints about that type of noise. The buzzing/static I'm getting is after you strike a chord/note on typically the A or low E strings and as is starts to fade out the buzzing comes in.
> 
> The new amp is coming today - they sent it next day! I'll test if first and hoping/assuming all is good, swap in my new preamp tubes and then return the old amp.



Got the new amp and so far so good. Tested it with the stock tunes first and a no more static/buzzing. The swapped the stock tubes for the Mesa and JJ’s I bought and still no buzzing. Old amp is already boxed up and ready to go back.


----------



## nevermind

Good news you finally got one that is working...


----------



## ken361

Might have a bite on a creamback on a trade today waiting to hear back, hoping for a more vintage tones. Might be worse then the ET65 ?


----------



## KraftyBob

ken361 said:


> Might have a bite on a creamback on a trade today waiting to hear back, hoping for a more vintage tones. Might be worse then the ET65 ?



Goodluck! I really like the Creamback. It's almost like it was designed for the DSL.


----------



## ken361

getting the creamback later could do a recording later at bedroom levels test loud sat. Not sure its broken in though


----------



## ken361

Pres at 5 this time, treb 6 mids 7 bass 5 res 3


----------



## KraftyBob

ken361 said:


> Pres at 5 this time, treb 6 mids 7 bass 5 res 3




First impressions, Ken?


----------



## ken361

KraftyBob said:


> First impressions, Ken?


im liking it! soon as I plugged in I could hear some of the upper mids biting some. Def records better over the ET65 cream has a smoother top end and a little fuller sounding.


----------



## JimmyDee

Decided to do a few mods on my amp... Parts arrived today, and I got right on it.
The whole process took about an hour, including rebiasing my power tubes afterward.

New ClassicTone choke added.





Swapped my preamp tubes, for some 7025/12AX7's from The Tube Store
Also put on these Belton tube shields. They just pop in and twist, and they're locked in place.





Also swapped my power tubes, for a set of Tung-Sol EL34B's... also from The Tube Store
http://www.thetubestore.com/Shop-by-Amp/Marshall-DSL40C-Amp/Marshall-DSL40C-Premium-Package





The fever continued... as I also swapped-out my speaker for a Celestion G12H75 Creamback.









I also got this new toy, over the weekend... Line 6 Helix sound processor. 
I realize it's like creating Marshall sacrilidge by altering the sound of the amp with a processor... 
But my oh my, is this thing ever nice!


----------



## solarburn

JimmyDee said:


> Decided to do a few mods on my amp... Parts arrived today, and I got right on it.
> The whole process took about an hour, including rebiasing my power tubes afterward.
> 
> New ClassicTone choke added.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Swapped my preamp tubes, for some 7025/12AX7's from The Tube Store
> Also put on these Belton tube shields. They just pop in and twist, and they're locked in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also swapped my power tubes, for a set of Tung-Sol EL34B's... also from The Tube Store
> http://www.thetubestore.com/Shop-by-Amp/Marshall-DSL40C-Amp/Marshall-DSL40C-Premium-Package
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The fever continued... as I also swapped-out my speaker for a Celestion G12H75 Creamback.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I also got this new toy, over the weekend... Line 6 Helix sound processor.
> I realize it's like creating Marshall sacrilidge by altering the sound of the amp with a processor...
> But my oh my, is this thing ever nice!



You are having too much fun!


----------



## ken361

I had a few people on facebook lower there bias to around 33 and then being really pleased with the results! one guy was at 48 stock Mv!


----------



## roxynoodle

I talked with someone at Musician's Friend last night for awhile about cabs since they have that 17% off sale going on. Any chance anyone here has tried the MX412 cab with the DSL40c? I think I'm going to likely hold out for a 1960, but I'm curious what others have used as well.

At any rate I asked him if the DSL40c was discontinued. He didn't know at first but then he checked on ordering more and said it was no longer available for them to do so. So not sure if this is news anymore since there was a thread about this, but he thinks it is discontinued. He does not know what they plan to replace it with, but can't imagine Marshall won't have some new mid-wattage offering. I had noticed Sweetwater has the original 70/80 speaker version listed as out of stock with no pre-orders for new ones, which is why I asked MF about it while I was on the phone with them.


----------



## BrentD

roxynoodle said:


> I had noticed Sweetwater has the original 70/80 speaker version listed as out of stock with no pre-orders for new ones, which is why I asked MF about it while I was on the phone with them.



I was browsing the other day and the 40CSTs were $50 off, too.


----------



## Micky

roxynoodle said:


> I talked with someone at Musician's Friend last night for awhile about cabs since they have that 17% off sale going on. Any chance anyone here has tried the MX412 cab with the DSL40c? I think I'm going to likely hold out for a 1960, but I'm curious what others have used as well.
> 
> At any rate I asked him if the DSL40c was discontinued. He didn't know at first but then he checked on ordering more and said it was no longer available for them to do so. So not sure if this is news anymore since there was a thread about this, but he thinks it is discontinued. He does not know what they plan to replace it with, but can't imagine Marshall won't have some new mid-wattage offering. I had noticed Sweetwater has the original 70/80 speaker version listed as out of stock with no pre-orders for new ones, which is why I asked MF about it while I was on the phone with them.


I have tried the MX412 as well as the MX212 and I like them both.
They obviously aren't a 1960, but the DSL40c thru them sounds great.

When I plug mine into the 1960a/b stack it is just too overpowering. I am in search of an inexpensive 2X12.


----------



## roxynoodle

Micky said:


> I have tried the MX412 as well as the MX212 and I like them both.
> They obviously aren't a 1960, but the DSL40c thru them sounds great.
> 
> When I plug mine into the 1960a/b stack it is just too overpowering. I am in search of an inexpensive 2X12.



So you prefer the MX cabs with the DSL40c then? Interesting for me to consider then. 

I think the MX212 was the first new one I looked at. Is that the one that normally retails for $359? (I'll check). If I recall it is an 8 ohm cab so I was disappointed I couldn't run my Creamback in the combo with it.


----------



## roxynoodle

Ok, the MX212 is 8 ohm. Does anyone know how it is wired? Is it by any chance 2 16 ohm speakers in parallel? If so I would consider moving my Creamback into that and putting one of the 70/80s from that cab into my DSL40c.


----------



## Micky

Probably 16-ohm, as 2 X 8-ohm would either be 16 or 4 depending on how it is wired. And it is HDF, not MDF as others have described. Similar, but very different construction.

And don't go by what I say, my DSL is heavily modded and isn't like anyone else's. For example, I have a 4-ohm output...
Always be sure to get a different opinion from mine.


----------



## jeffb

Grab an EVH 2x12 cab. Better construction, better speakers, not a whole lot more $. And if you dont like the 70th annis, you can sell them and get a good chunk of change back.

The H&K Tubemeister 2x12 is a solid cab 2.

No they won't match, but I'm worried about tone, not aesthetics.


----------



## Bownse

roxynoodle said:


> Ok, the MX212 is 8 ohm. Does anyone know how it is wired? Is it by any chance 2 16 ohm speakers in parallel? If so I would consider moving my Creamback into that and putting one of the 70/80s from that cab into my DSL40c.



My break-out project is 2x12"/16 ohm in parallel so that I could use the 70/80 and G12H75 Creamback which I already had on hand.

http://www.fjr-tips.org/misc/amp/DSL40C_Mod/A_Project.html


----------



## roxynoodle

Well, I'm getting a cab, but it is an Avatar. I ordered the G212 on special with Creambacks, a convertible back so I can try both open and closed configurations and black grill cloth to match my DSL40c  

$409 shipped. They had 5 or 6 different speaker combos to chose from on that if anyone else is interested. And they will make it in whatever impedance you need (just put it in the notes). And they are offering the converible back as a free upgrade as well right now (again just put it in the notes).


----------



## Micky

roxynoodle said:


> Well, I'm getting a cab, but it is an Avatar. I ordered the G212 on special with Creambacks, a convertible back so I can try both open and closed configurations and black grill cloth to match my DSL40c
> 
> $409 shipped. They had 5 or 6 different speaker combos to chose from on that if anyone else is interested. And they will make it in whatever impedance you need (just put it in the notes). And they are offering the converible back as a free upgrade as well right now (again just put it in the notes).


Avatar cabs are great.
You're gonna love it!


----------



## ken361

Facebook brag from this afternoon:
After I biased this amp to 33, I can’t even!! So I’ve owned so many amps, 900, 800, fortin modded superbass, ceriatone plexi, soldano, Mesa triple rec, orange rocker 30(



), bogner shiva, fender bassman, blues deluxe... you get the idea...

This freaking amp kicks SO much ass!!! Every time I play it it keeps getting better and better.. I’m so impressed with the range of tone and it’s all so amazingly good!! I’ve got fender cleans, AC/DC, 80s and extreme metal tones all here all clear and articulate. The biasing helped make this amp sound so much better. I’m truly floored here. I’d put it up against any of the mentioned amps I’ve owned all day.



️



️


----------



## Micky

ken361 said:


> Facebook brag from this afternoon:
> After I biased this amp to 33, I can’t even!! So I’ve owned so many amps, 900, 800, fortin modded superbass, ceriatone plexi, soldano, Mesa triple rec, orange rocker 30(
> 
> 
> 
> ), bogner shiva, fender bassman, blues deluxe... you get the idea...
> 
> This freaking amp kicks SO much ass!!! Every time I play it it keeps getting better and better.. I’m so impressed with the range of tone and it’s all so amazingly good!! I’ve got fender cleans, AC/DC, 80s and extreme metal tones all here all clear and articulate. The biasing helped make this amp sound so much better. I’m truly floored here. I’d put it up against any of the mentioned amps I’ve owned all day.
> 
> 
> 
> ️
> 
> 
> 
> ️


I saw that. Kinda over-excited, huh?


----------



## ken361

Micky said:


> I saw that. Kinda over-excited, huh?


maybe a bit


----------



## ken361

Creamback sounded really good today jamming loud I took my Caling echo pedal out of the loop I think it added unwanted highs.So it was all amp and reverb. Lots of bite from the EVH and ballsy low end. Even the SAS pedal worked great as a boost .


----------



## ken361

Solar fireballing?


----------



## ken361

Amazing pushed cleans with the SAS EVH guitar bias at 2 o'clock on the pedal !!!


----------



## LastRide

I bought the DSL40C Friday evening. Playing around with it last couple days I was majorly disappointed. Flubby, muddy sounding. loose. The higher the volume the worse it sounded. The gain past 6 or 7 seemed to add bass and made it even worse. It thickened the sound in a bad way. I just couldn't get a decent sound out of it. I only liked it at super low volume like 1.

No idea if anyone has discussed this earlier in the thread. Today I was checking out a John Petrucci interview with The Captain Anderton's music on youtube. John started talking about flabby, loose, muddy sounds from an amp and how to dial it in to get rid of the flubby, loose sound. He has his own signature Mesa Boogie amp. I tried his settings and it actually worked as best as you will probably get on the DSL40C without upgrades. This is for Lead 1 and 2. The clean is fine.

Here are the settings to try and see if you like them. First off, I mentioned the gain past 6 or 7. This is one problem area. Keep the gain at 6 (7 at most) or less if you prefer. Treble adds some distortion at higher settings put the treble on 5 but you can try 4 or 6. I wouldn't go past that, or its gets too bright with this amp. Here is the big one Bass at 0 (yes zero), but try 1 or 2. I would not go past 2 the gain knob and the bass knob are the biggest culprits for the flubby loose sound. Set the middle to 4 or 5, less if you prefer for that compressed sound. You can try 6 but again it might start to get bright at that point. Set the presence to 3 and the resonance at 6. Tone shift off to not add more brightness. Try it on to see how you like it, but it will add a bit of brightness. Let me know what you guys think. You can make slight adjustments but don't go overboard. Volume to acquired taste. You can turn the amp up and it won't get flubby and loose. At least no where as bad.

The amp is going to sound a little brighter especially if you engage the tone shift. More volume thickens it up some. Try with it off, see if you like it with it on, but I would leave it off.

There are two things I recommend you add to compensate for the settings. I would add a good overdrive of choice, and I would also look into adding an equalizer. You can skip the overdrive if your ok with the way it is, but I feel the amp could use a little more gain, and get that amp to sing. Some of the best sounds I ever gotten was just by dropping an overdrive pedal down in front of an amp. Those heads didn't produce enough gain, but with the overdrive pedal it ripped big time. The equalizer will thicken your sound right up adjusting the bass frequency side, and the rest to taste.



Gain 6 (you can try 7)
Treble 5
Bass 2 (try 0 or 1)
Middle 4 (try 3 or 5)
Presence 3
Resonance 6 (to thicken the sound back up some)
Volume to taste
Tone shift off (you can try with it on but will sound brighter)



Here is the link to the interview 1:04:40 is where he starts getting into flubby loose sound.


----------



## Micky

LastRide said:


> Gain 6 (you can try 7)
> Treble 5
> Bass 2 (try 0 or 1)
> Middle 4 (try 3 or 5)
> Presence 3
> Resonance 6 (to thicken the sound back up some)
> Volume to taste
> Tone shift off (you can try with it on but will sound brighter)


Sure this is YOUR experience, but you fail to mention the MOST critical aspect of your setup. Your guitar & pickups.

I can make my LP sound exactly as you describe at the settings you used. And then I can plug in one of my Tele's and it sounds like heaven at those SAME settings. 

With so many different combinations of setups you should never assume that everyone has the same tone as you. And sure, my amp is modded, but the fact remains. Different guitars and pickups will sound different at the same settings so it makes sense to dial in each one differently.


----------



## nevermind

Micky said:


> Different guitars and pickups will sound different at the same settings so it makes sense to dial in each one differently.



1000% agree. A PSA for folks "who are losing/have already lost" their memory, write the amp and guitar settings down when you get something you like!!! I just changed guitars and messed up a really good sounding setting. I didn't put it on paper.


----------



## BanditPanda

nevermind said:


> 1000% agree. A PSA for folks "who are losing/have already lost" their memory, write the amp and guitar settings down when you get something you like!!! I just changed guitars and messed up a really good sounding setting. I didn't put it on paper.



And pedal settings if you use them!!! At this very moment there are 11 cards filled with amp/pedal settings sitting on top of my amp !!
BP


----------



## BanditPanda

nevermind said:


> 1000% agree. A PSA for folks "who are losing/have already lost" their memory, write the amp and guitar settings down when you get something you like!!! I just changed guitars and messed up a really good sounding setting. I didn't put it on paper.



PSA ? Post Strum Affliction ?


----------



## BanditPanda

LastRide said:


> I bought the DSL40C Friday evening. Playing around with it last couple days I was majorly disappointed. Flubby, muddy sounding. loose. The higher the volume the worse it sounded. The gain past 6 or 7 seemed to add bass and made it even worse. It thickened the sound in a bad way. I just couldn't get a decent sound out of it. I only liked it at super low volume like 1.
> 
> No idea if anyone has discussed this earlier in the thread. Today I was checking out a John Petrucci interview with The Captain Anderton's music on youtube. John started talking about flabby, loose, muddy sounds from an amp and how to dial it in to get rid of the flubby, loose sound. He has his own signature Mesa Boogie amp. I tried his settings and it actually worked as best as you will probably get on the DSL40C without upgrades. This is for Lead 1 and 2. The clean is fine.
> 
> Here are the settings to try and see if you like them. First off, I mentioned the gain past 6 or 7. This is one problem area. Keep the gain at 6 (7 at most) or less if you prefer. Treble adds some distortion at higher settings put the treble on 5 but you can try 4 or 6. I wouldn't go past that, or its gets too bright with this amp. Here is the big one Bass at 0 (yes zero), but try 1 or 2. I would not go past 2 the gain knob and the bass knob are the biggest culprits for the flubby loose sound. Set the middle to 4 or 5, less if you prefer for that compressed sound. You can try 6 but again it might start to get bright at that point. Set the presence to 3 and the resonance at 6. Tone shift off to not add more brightness. Try it on to see how you like it, but it will add a bit of brightness. Let me know what you guys think. You can make slight adjustments but don't go overboard. Volume to acquired taste. You can turn the amp up and it won't get flubby and loose. At least no where as bad.
> 
> The amp is going to sound a little brighter especially if you engage the tone shift. More volume thickens it up some. Try with it off, see if you like it with it on, but I would leave it off.
> 
> There are two things I recommend you add to compensate for the settings. I would add a good overdrive of choice, and I would also look into adding an equalizer. You can skip the overdrive if your ok with the way it is, but I feel the amp could use a little more gain, and get that amp to sing. Some of the best sounds I ever gotten was just by dropping an overdrive pedal down in front of an amp. Those heads didn't produce enough gain, but with the overdrive pedal it ripped big time. The equalizer will thicken your sound right up adjusting the bass frequency side, and the rest to taste.
> 
> 
> 
> Gain 6 (you can try 7)
> Treble 5
> Bass 2 (try 0 or 1)
> Middle 4 (try 3 or 5)
> Presence 3
> Resonance 6 (to thicken the sound back up some)
> Volume to taste
> Tone shift off (you can try with it on but will sound brighter)
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the link to the interview 1:04:40 is where he starts getting into flubby loose sound.




Thanks LastRide. I did listen to that portion from 1:04:40 and took notes on some of those things from JP. As they mention the Mesa's tone controls are more effective than Marshall's but I figure the principle's are the same.
BP


----------



## LastRide

BanditPanda said:


> Thanks LastRide. I did listen to that portion from 1:04:40 and took notes on some of those m things from JP. As they mention the Mesa's tone controls are more effective than Marshall's but I figure the principle's are the same.
> BP



Its obvious with the bass, but I didn't realize you need to almost cut it right out. Adding an EQ is the best way to compensate. I couldn't believe how much bass was being added by raising the gain. Go from 6 to 10 and now the amp starts to get flabby sounding. Yes, the principle is the same. Seems to work in this case. Even a Marshall can be finicky with a bit of adjustment. I think the Captain guy mentioned that.


----------



## ken361

LastRide said:


> Its obvious with the bass, but I didn't realize you need to almost cut it right out. Adding an EQ is the best way to compensate. I couldn't believe how much bass was being added by raising the gain. Go from 6 to 10 and now the amp starts to get flabby sounding. Yes, the principle is the same. Seems to work in this case. Even a Marshall can be finicky with a bit of adjustment. I think the Captain guy mentioned that.


Bias your amp! most people are getting them set at 40 or so! Right dont go past 7 on the gain on the red


----------



## ken361

My bass and resonance is usually at 3 it depends were im playing at


----------



## BanditPanda

ken361 said:


> My bass and resonance is usually at 3 it depends were im playing at



Yes Kenny we know... Red Rocks or The Greek....
BP


----------



## BanditPanda

ken361 said:


> Bias your amp! most people are getting them set at 40 or so! Right dont go past 7 on the gain on the red



Kenny my amp came from the factory at 37 ( if I remember correctly ). Left it where it was.
What are the biggest improvements or changes you have noticed based on a considerably lower bias?
BP


----------



## LastRide

Micky said:


> Sure this is YOUR experience, but you fail to mention the MOST critical aspect of your setup. Your guitar & pickups.
> 
> I can make my LP sound exactly as you describe at the settings you used. And then I can plug in one of my Tele's and it sounds like heaven at those SAME settings.
> 
> With so many different combinations of setups you should never assume that everyone has the same tone as you. And sure, my amp is modded, but the fact remains. Different guitars and pickups will sound different at the same settings so it makes sense to dial in each one differently.



The idea here is to get rid of the muddy/flabby/loose sound of this amp in Lead 1 and 2. That is why I said to tweak your adjustments a bit if need be. The gain 7 or less and bass 0-2 should be around the settings I gave. Less gain is ok if that is your preference. Those 2 are the culprits. You know, I have never had to make drastic adjustments from one guitar to the next. Each guitar brought its own flavor to the sound. Sure, there are times you may have to make some adjustments. I have no guitars with single coil pickups in the bridge at this time. I am just trying to get across that the gain and bass is causing major problems. Dial the rest of the settings to your liking.

Here are the guitars I tried with the settings. I have an overdrive and EQ to try. Its on my pedalboard driving my full stack in the basement.

ESP LTD GL200K George Lynch (stock ESP pickups HB bridge single neck)
2005 Gibson Les Paul Standard (burstbucker pro's)
2013 Gibson SG Angus Young Thunderstruck (57 classic's)
Iommi Epiphone Custom SG (Iommi Signature pickups) Tuned down one whole step. Out of all the guitars I tried this one needed more adjustment.
1989 Les Paul Standard (stock Bill Lawrence pickups)
2014 Gibson Les Paul Studio Shred Premium Floyd Rose (498T 490R)


----------



## LastRide

I checked the bias on my amp. One tube was 38 and the other 41. I set both to 38. I tried 33 and didn't like it. I put it back to 38. I have a compu-bias I bought some years back. It already has the 1 ohm resistor in it. You plug in the tube sockets and then plug in the tubes. You can buy extra accessories for it. It reads bias, plate and tube watts. Nice unit if your ever looking for one. Makes everything simple. http://www.compu-bias.com/


----------



## ken361

BanditPanda said:


> Kenny my amp came from the factory at 37 ( if I remember correctly ). Left it where it was.
> What are the biggest improvements or changes you have noticed based on a considerably lower bias?
> BP


Smoother less bright more cleaner sounding less messy sound on the red channel. Crunch more headroom someone stated. Lots of people are really liking it on facebook now!


----------



## ken361

LastRide said:


> The idea here is to get rid of the muddy/flabby/loose sound of this amp in Lead 1 and 2. That is why I said to tweak your adjustments a bit if need be. The gain 7 or less and bass 0-2 should be around the settings I gave. Less gain is ok if that is your preference. Those 2 are the culprits. You know, I have never had to make drastic adjustments from one guitar to the next. Each guitar brought its own flavor to the sound. Sure, there are times you may have to make some adjustments. I have no guitars with single coil pickups in the bridge at this time. I am just trying to get across that the gain and bass is causing major problems. Dial the rest of the settings to your liking.
> 
> Here are the guitars I tried with the settings. I have an overdrive and EQ to try. Its on my pedalboard driving my full stack in the basement.
> 
> ESP LTD GL200K George Lynch (stock ESP pickups HB bridge single neck)
> 2005 Gibson Les Paul Standard (burstbucker pro's)
> 2013 Gibson SG Angus Young Thunderstruck (57 classic's)
> Iommi Epiphone Custom SG (Iommi Signature pickups) Tuned down one whole step. Out of all the guitars I tried this one needed more adjustment.
> 1989 Les Paul Standard (stock Bill Lawrence pickups)
> 2014 Gibson Les Paul Studio Shred Premium Floyd Rose (498T 490R)


Never had really flabby loose tones even with the stock speaker very much but the creamback is better for sure. I notice somewhat a better tone with nothing in the loop. Everything affects the signal one way or the other, some have 20 pedals on there boards I find even one can effect the tone and smoothness even with the best cables


----------



## BanditPanda

ken361 said:


> Smoother less bright more cleaner sounding less messy sound on the red channel. Crunch more headroom someone stated. Lots of people are really liking it on facebook now!



OK thanks Kenny. As you know I'm a green & clean guy so red channel effects won't do anything for me. I do find some brightness even with my LP but I have ordered myself an EQ for Xmas to dial in more & less of what I want.
You're not using an EQ yet?
BP


----------



## ken361

BanditPanda said:


> OK thanks Kenny. As you know I'm a green & clean guy so red channel effects won't do anything for me. I do find some brightness even with my LP but I have ordered myself an EQ for Xmas to dial in more & less of what I want.
> You're not using an EQ yet?
> BP


No I had one years ago with the jvm I was fiddling with too much lol I do like the new MXR ones that are true bypass. I dont really have issues using both channels. I was getting some good EVH over the weekend and the SAS pedal pushing the cleans was killer! need some single coils again. What one did you get?


----------



## BanditPanda

ken361 said:


> No I had one years ago with the jvm I was fiddling with too much lol I do like the new MXR ones that are true bypass. I dont really have issues using both channels. I was getting some good EVH over the weekend and the SAS pedal pushing the cleans was killer! need some single coils again. What one did you get?



I bought one of the cheapies that in fact SolarBurn is using called :
Danelectro DJ-14C Fish & Chips 7 Band EQ Mini Effects Pedal 
All reviews of that pedal are excellent.
BP


----------



## ken361

BanditPanda said:


> I bought one of the cheapies that in fact SolarBurn is using called :
> Danelectro DJ-14C Fish & Chips 7 Band EQ Mini Effects Pedal
> All reviews of that pedal are excellent.
> BP


I had one my buddy gave it to me but i didnt really care for it. I cant remember if i tried it at low volumes or high?? sounded kinda cheap, it was a few years ago and im not sure if i had the DSL it might of been the Mesa mini rec. I had so many before dsl


----------



## ken361

The MXR sounded pro it also runs on higher volts
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Danelec...507036348-sku^1273887999666@ADL4GC-adType^PLA


----------



## ken361

ken361 said:


> I had one my buddy gave it to me but i didnt really care for it. I cant remember if i tried it at low volumes or high?? sounded kinda cheap, it was a few years ago and im not sure if i had the DSL it might of been the Mesa mini rec. I had so many before dsl


 would have to retry it again with my setup!


----------



## BanditPanda

ken361 said:


> I had one my buddy gave it to me but i didnt really care for it. I cant remember if i tried it at low volumes or high?? sounded kinda cheap, it was a few years ago and im not sure if i had the DSL it might of been the Mesa mini rec. I had so many before dsl



Kenny gotta say that 99% of the reviews always comment on the good tone of that EQ.
Second quality commented upon is it's noise free operation.
Many reviews talk about the plastic construct but most said the pedal is strong.
I won't be stomping it anyway as it will be running the loop.
BP


----------



## ken361

BanditPanda said:


> Kenny gotta say that 99% of the reviews always comment on the good tone of that EQ.
> Second quality commented upon is it's noise free operation.
> Many reviews talk about the plastic construct but most said the pedal is strong.
> I won't be stomping it anyway as it will be running the loop.
> BP


I ran it up front I think i might of had the Vox at the time and no loops, let us know how it is. They do make decent stuff


----------



## JiMB

Just recorded this blues clip with mine, it has a Celestion Neo Creamback in it.


----------



## ken361

Dig that blues tone boost at all? dam those pups are responsive! sounded killer. Just got a Creamback myself


----------



## LastRide

Tonight I opened up one of my Marshall 4x12's and took a vintage 30 out and stuck it in the DSL40C. Definitely made a difference for the better compared to the stock 70/80. Clears up some of the deficiencies of the 70/80. Now its just a matter of deciding what to go with. I know what the V30 sounds like in the DSL40C, and that I would be happy with it. The Creamback 65/75 or the Neo is also interesting. I can only go by what others are saying and some video clips. What to do.....what to do.....


----------



## Bruno60

What do you think of the Classic Lead 80 on the DSL?


----------



## LastRide

Bruno60 said:


> What do you think of the Classic Lead 80 on the DSL?



Never tried it. I think that's what was in my Marshall cab at one time until I replaced them with V30's. Sold them off. Could have been 75's too. I have 2 bottom cab's stacked. I think the top one has v30's and 80's in an X pattern. I will have to check tomorrow. The bottom cab had all V30's. I thought the bottom cab was mixed too. I guess not. I have another Marshall stack. One has 4 original 25W Blackbacks, and the other has 25W Greenback reissues. I doubt I will try one of those in the DSL.

Some ebay seller in the U.K. is advertising this Marshall Vintage 30 as a direct replacement for the DSL40C. Sounds like just a Celestion V30 made for Marshall with their name on it. https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Celestion-M...728981?hash=item46715e7ed5:g:fYsAAOSwOgdYnzU4


----------



## solarburn

JiMB said:


> Just recorded this blues clip with mine, it has a Celestion Neo Creamback in it.




Fuck. Tasty and naughty. With a Marshall.

You can play.


----------



## solarburn

.


----------



## JiMB

ken361 said:


> Dig that blues tone boost at all? dam those pups are responsive! sounded killer. Just got a Creamback myself


No boost, straight in.


----------



## ken361

I noticed how good the gain maxed works now with the creamback in mine now


----------



## solarburn

LastRide said:


> Tonight I opened up one of my Marshall 4x12's and took a vintage 30 out and stuck it in the DSL40C. Definitely made a difference for the better compared to the stock 70/80. Clears up some of the deficiencies of the 70/80. Now its just a matter of deciding what to go with. I know what the V30 sounds like in the DSL40C, and that I would be happy with it. The Creamback 65/75 or the Neo is also interesting. I can only go by what others are saying and some video clips. What to do.....what to do.....



It's expensive rolling speakers plus each of us have their own ear taste buds so that creates another variable.

Still I listen to examples and there are some go to speakers depending on sonic ground covered. I always appreciate input gathered. This shit gets spendy though.


----------



## tmingle

Bruno60 said:


> What do you think of the Classic Lead 80 on the DSL?


I have an Egnater Elite 80(which is supposedly a Lead 80 with more low end) in mine, and quite likeit.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

Bruno60 said:


> What do you think of the Classic Lead 80 on the DSL?


I had a CL80 in mine for a while, sounds really good. It's actually surprisingly similar to the stock 70/80 but more refined in the top end and more firm on the bottom, same mids. If you like the basic tone of the stock speaker but wish the high end wasn't so ice-picky and the bottom wasn't so flubby, the CL80 could be what you're looking for. I think it works better with the Ultra Gain channel than the Classic Gain, handles lots of gain really well because it doesn't break up much on its own - but, IMO it needs a lot of volume to sounds its best. At lower volume it can sound a little stiff.


----------



## solarburn

Green clean boosted can be fun. And that's what makes me play. With a 70/80.


----------



## solarburn

Here is a setting by Dreyn that kinda took a few of us off guard. Yeah its 10 minutes of wank but the settings would blow you away. Straight in. Guitar volume adjustments only and pup toggling.


----------



## solarburn

Just for reference point. This JMP loses other amps. I'm just increasing guitar volume.


----------



## whitecloud

ken361 said:


> I had one my buddy gave it to me but i didnt really care for it. I cant remember if i tried it at low volumes or high?? sounded kinda cheap, it was a few years ago and im not sure if i had the DSL it might of been the Mesa mini rec. I had so many before dsl


There is absolutely nothing wrong with the tone of the F&C EQ and doesn't sound cheap but the build quality is where I find issue and many have re-housed this pedal


----------



## ken361

whitecloud said:


> There is absolutely nothing wrong with the tone of the F&C EQ and doesn't sound cheap but the build quality is where I find issue and many have re-housed this pedal


well I would have to try it again huh I have different amps and guitars now


----------



## whitecloud

ken361 said:


> well I would have to try it again huh I have different amps and guitars now


Yeah it's not noisy and gets the job done but mine has a dodgy switch so only good for home use wouldn't Gig with it. That said I still have the Orange 2 stroke boost para EQ pedal under my Radar


----------



## BanditPanda

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Here is a setting by Dreyn that kinda took a few of us off guard. Yeah its 10 minutes of wank but the settings would blow you away. Straight in. Guitar volume adjustments only and pup toggling.





SB..Please share. It's Christmas for fuchs sake !!
BP


----------



## BanditPanda

Fish & Chips out for delivery today !! Just in time for Xmas !!! YAY !!
BP
p.s. Never having used an EQ pedal before any tips / advice most welcome. I am planning to run it thru the loop.


----------



## ken361

BanditPanda said:


> Fish & Chips out for delivery today !! Just in time for Xmas !!! YAY !!
> BP
> p.s. Never having used an EQ pedal before any tips / advice most welcome. I am planning to run it thru the loop.


prb the loop, i used the MXR up front seems to have that brown sound more. Loop was smoother and warmer


----------



## solarburn

BanditPanda said:


> Fish & Chips out for delivery today !! Just in time for Xmas !!! YAY !!
> BP
> p.s. Never having used an EQ pedal before any tips / advice most welcome. I am planning to run it thru the loop.



In the loop for a boost set to taste or in front set to taste. In front it will add some some hiss. In loop? Not noisy. I used 2 for 2 different solo tones.


----------



## solarburn

BanditPanda said:


> SB..Please share. It's Christmas for fuchs sake !!
> BP



I can't remember the settings but they were way different than anything I ever use.


----------



## solarburn

Oh...Merry Xmass my good Bruthers!


----------



## BanditPanda

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I can't remember the settings but they were way different than anything I ever use.




Oh I see !!! We're slowly catching on to the fact that you just keep reposting the same clips over & over again !!!!! So as Dreyn left this forum a long while back that clip of the Dreyn settings was like from 2012 right !?? You gotsta get up, pretty early in the morning there yung fella to pull the wool over these old eyes!!!


----------



## solarburn

BanditPanda said:


> Oh I see !!! We're slowly catching on to the fact that you just keep reposting the same clips over & over again !!!!! So as Dreyn left this forum a long while back that clip of the Dreyn settings was like from 2012 right !?? You gotsta get up, pretty early in the morning there yung fella to pull the wool over these old eyes!!!



Yeah. Actually. I wish I could remember. Off the wall EQ but sounded really good.

By the way I put Dreyn on ignore long time ago even though I dig these settings. Just couldn't hang with his thought process.


----------



## solarburn

Here you go...

dreyn77, post: 1092471"]Lead 1
Deep In
pres 10
treb 1.5
mid 1
bass 0
toneshift out
vol 1 to 1.5
gain 7.8

I've been using these settings for the past month. it blows me away with how great it sounds.
I've forgotten the exact guitar I played so slight tweeking of the dials might be needed. I was playing superdist pickups and VH kramer pickups and gibson 70's LP pickups.

The different valve under the metal cover was a big improvement in fixing vintage pickup 'mushing' sound. The 100k celestions make the sound 'only amp distortion', which is great for amp adjusting.

chow![/quote]

Here are your settings for Lead 1 on my DSL40C. The vid runs way too long so no need to listen to it all. Unable to edit and cut using YT with my IPAD...don't know how. Used my phone to record it. The tone was so sticky I kept getting stuck hehee.

[ame=[MEDIA=youtube]ZDFlP8UENUw[/MEDIA] settings. - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## BanditPanda

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Here you go...
> 
> dreyn77, post: 1092471"]Lead 1
> Deep In
> pres 10
> treb 1.5
> mid 1
> bass 0
> toneshift out
> vol 1 to 1.5
> gain 7.8
> 
> I've been using these settings for the past month. it blows me away with how great it sounds.
> I've forgotten the exact guitar I played so slight tweeking of the dials might be needed. I was playing superdist pickups and VH kramer pickups and gibson 70's LP pickups.
> 
> The different valve under the metal cover was a big improvement in fixing vintage pickup 'mushing' sound. The 100k celestions make the sound 'only amp distortion', which is great for amp adjusting.
> 
> chow!



Here are your settings for Lead 1 on my DSL40C. The vid runs way too long so no need to listen to it all. Unable to edit and cut using YT with my IPAD...don't know how. Used my phone to record it. The tone was so sticky I kept getting stuck hehee.

[ame=[MEDIA=youtube]ZDFlP8UENUw[/MEDIA] settings. - YouTube[/ame][/QUOTE]


Good man!! Thank you.
BP


----------



## solarburn

BanditPanda said:


> Here are your settings for Lead 1 on my DSL40C. The vid runs way too long so no need to listen to it all. Unable to edit and cut using YT with my IPAD...don't know how. Used my phone to record it. The tone was so sticky I kept getting stuck hehee.
> 
> [ame=[MEDIA=youtube]ZDFlP8UENUw[/MEDIA] settings. - YouTube[/ame]




Good man!! Thank you.
BP[/QUOTE]

And you thought I was full of chit!


----------



## ken361

Dam! I just played a hour loud and the amp seemed not as loud and the crunch was more bass then I seen the tone shift was pressed in!!! WTF boom the sound was loud and more lively again! Its all Solar's fault haha


----------



## solarburn

ken361 said:


> Dam! I just played a hour loud and the amp seemed not as loud and the crunch was more bass then I seen the tone shift was pressed in!!! WTF boom the sound was loud and more lively again! Its all Solar's fault haha


----------



## Bownse

ken361 said:


> Dam! I just played a hour loud and the amp seemed not as loud and the crunch was more bass then I seen the tone shift was pressed in!!! WTF boom the sound was loud and more lively again! Its all Solar's fault haha




Pssst... it's not the amp. It's the extended exposure to loud amps damaging your hearing. The tone's the same. You ability to tell it has.


----------



## ken361

It shifts the mids


----------



## kev67

merry christmas guys


----------



## JiMB

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Fuck. Tasty and naughty. With a Marshall.
> 
> You can play.


Thanx, Happy New Year!


----------



## solarburn

ken361 said:


> It shifts the mids



Did you say " it shits mids "? I like that.


----------



## ken361

Picked up this jem Wed! its a Squier Affinity, really wanted some single coils again. Sounding great so far into the clean channel with the SAS pedal! Stones test driving it loud this afternoon. The quality is superb, fit finish, intonation and action.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

ken361 said:


> View attachment 45151
> Picked up this jem Wed! its a Squier Affinity, really wanted some single coils again. Sounding great so far into the clean channel with the SAS pedal! Stones test driving it loud this afternoon. The quality is superb, fit finish, intonation and action.


That looks gorgeous Ken.


----------



## BanditPanda

ken361 said:


> View attachment 45151
> Picked up this jem Wed! its a Squier Affinity, really wanted some single coils again. Sounding great so far into the clean channel with the SAS pedal! Stones test driving it loud this afternoon. The quality is superb, fit finish, intonation and action.



Ken......you ain't playing Stones unless take off that mofo E string and tune to open G 
'cause I'm a big Stones & Keef fan I keep a Tele strung that way.
Congrats on the new Tele !. Every player needs a Tele in the stable.

BP
p.s. find yourself some really nice tones using the neck pup.


----------



## ken361

I tuned the Low E to a D sounds great so far


----------



## ken361

Dont really use the D just looked up the open G tuning and tuned it


----------



## ken361

BanditPanda said:


> Ken......you ain't playing Stones unless take off that mofo E string and tune to open G
> 'cause I'm a big Stones & Keef fan I keep a Tele stringed that way.
> Congrats on the new Tele !. Every player needs a Tele in the stable.
> 
> BP
> p.s. find yourself some really nice tones using the neck pup.


checkout the Mick Taylor series on you tube 1969 to 77 i think great era!


----------



## BanditPanda

Thanks Kenny. I'm all over anything Stones. My 2 fave live shows are Get Yer Ya Ya's Out from '69 at MSG and the Brussels concert from '73.
Mick Taylor left the Stones in '74.
BP


----------



## ken361

BanditPanda said:


> Thanks Kenny. I'm all over anything Stones. My 2 fave live shows are Get Yer Ya Ya's Out from '69 at MSG and the Brussels concert from '73.
> Mick Taylor left the Stones in '74.
> BP


OK the clean channel sounded great loud punchy and clear with SAS pedal!! With out it not very loud and dynamic but not bad. Problem its sqeels on the red pretty bad playing loud but not bright sounding so I think once I figure it out it should be awesome.Someone said those arnt shielded so I try to Do it my self? Or invest it on a new bridge pickup? I can live what I have now but would like to use the red also. Hmmm.


----------



## ken361

Saw them in 1981 at the Pontiac Silverdome here in MI,it was crazy with 80,000 people! Santana opened up which was awesome! Lots of weed smell in the air lol.


----------



## G the wildman

ken361 said:


> View attachment 45151
> Picked up this jem Wed! its a Squier Affinity, really wanted some single coils again. Sounding great so far into the clean channel with the SAS pedal! Stones test driving it loud this afternoon. The quality is superb, fit finish, intonation and action.


----------



## G the wildman

Hi Ken,

I note that you fitted the Creamback in your amp. 

What do you think. I had one in my DSL before I sold it. But I kept the speaker as I liked it a lot. Tammed the amp.

G


----------



## G the wildman

Hi again Ken

I also have a Tele try Brown Suger with open G Tuning. Real fun.


----------



## ken361

G the wildman said:


> Hi Ken,
> 
> I note that you fitted the Creamback in your amp.
> 
> What do you think. I had one in my DSL before I sold it. But I kept the speaker as I liked it a lot. Tammed the amp.
> 
> G


I like it so far only have the weekends to try it loud,the ET 65 was decent also but more highs. The creams seems to get the Brown sound better over the WGS speaker.


----------



## ken361

G the wildman said:


> Hi again Ken
> 
> I also have a Tele try Brown Suger with open G Tuning. Real fun.


started expermenting with it today I like tone I'm picking up the chords now in the Barr form that equals a open chord if I'm saying it right?


----------



## solarburn

Of course it's going be brighter and twangy. Id work the green side with pedals.

That guitar has a great look Ken. 

My Tele has Dimarzio SD's that coil split and I need to adjust EQ when I use it in twang mode. A pedal set right can be all the difference though. No need to adjust amp EQ.


----------



## ken361

Man the open G sounds so good with SAS pedal wow! Turns the amp into Fender deluxe or something! Just making stuff up was sounding decent for this amateur!


----------



## G the wildman

ken361 said:


> Man the open G sounds so good with SAS pedal wow! Turns the amp into Fender deluxe or something! Just making stuff up was sounding decent for this amateur!


Ken, why not treat us to a recording to end 2017 or set us up for 2018

G


----------



## ken361

G the wildman said:


> Ken, why not treat us to a recording to end 2017 or set us up for 2018
> 
> G


At my girls place now will try Monday


----------



## ken361

OK not the best recordin/playing but its recorded at just below 1 just fiddling around trying to make up something. I had the pedal bias knob at 10 o clock to dirty it some, it actually sounds better live and loud. Just trying grab the open G tuning I just started playing with it Friday all new to me


----------



## G the wildman

ken361 said:


> OK not the best recordin/playing but its recorded at just below 1 just fiddling around trying to make up something. I had the pedal bias knob at 10 o clock to dirty it some, it actually sounds better live and loud. Just trying grab the open G tuning I just started playing with it Friday all new to me



Hi Ken,

Thanks for that, It has inspired me as I don't play my tele much. You have the tone set pretty cool. Shows how versatile the DSL 40 can be with some tweaking and a pedal. BTW your playing is better than amature. Give yourself some credit. I hope to be that good in a year or two. Probs the latter.

Thank again.

G


----------



## solarburn

ken361 said:


> OK not the best recordin/playing but its recorded at just below 1 just fiddling around trying to make up something. I had the pedal bias knob at 10 o clock to dirty it some, it actually sounds better live and loud. Just trying grab the open G tuning I just started playing with it Friday all new to me




You fucking twanger!LOL

Gawd I love that Stones tune. Good choice mon!

That's a sexy Tele. Do some more...


----------



## ken361

solarburnDSL50 said:


> You fucking twanger!LOL
> 
> Gawd I love that Stones tune. Good choice mon!
> 
> That's a sexy Tele. Do some more...


Wasn't really trying to copy the song it sounds similar in the licks but i should try to sometime Keef and Mick Taylor are no joke tell you what that sas pedal it really does that Walsh Funk 49 tune really good. Loud and clear it really opens the clean channel up!~


----------



## Angus Rhoads

ken361 said:


> OK not the best recordin/playing but its recorded at just below 1 just fiddling around trying to make up something. I had the pedal bias knob at 10 o clock to dirty it some, it actually sounds better live and loud. Just trying grab the open G tuning I just started playing with it Friday all new to me



Sounds good Ken, that would be a good Skynyrd tone too.


----------



## ken361

Angus Rhoads said:


> Sounds good Ken, that would be a good Skynyrd tone too.


im sure you would sound killer playing it


----------



## Angus Rhoads

ken361 said:


> im sure you would sound killer playing it


I dunno, those clean-ish tones always expose my sloppiness...


----------



## JimmyDee

I use my DSL40C as my home practice amp. Absolutely love it.

Then, I got a Line 6 Helix effects processor about a month ago...
I know this is a Marshall forum, and tube purists will squawk about me using an effects processor.
Yada, Yada...

I originally had the Helix plugged into the front of the amp... sounded like crap. I mean, real crap. 
So, I went out and bought an Electro-Voice ZLX-12P (FRFR Powered Monitor Speaker).
I'll admit, the EV monitor sounds really good with the Helix... but it doesn't have that brute power that I missed with the Marshall.

This morning, I tried plugging the Helix into the Return on the back of the Marshall (not sure why I didn't think of this before).
This effectively cuts-out the Marshall's preamp, and just goes straight into the power amp section.
HO - LY - CRAP! It sounds friggen amazing!

Again, tube purists are probably cringing right now... but using the Helix as the preamp, and the Marshall as the power amp, is an amazing combo!
Really amazing. 

I'll be returning the Electro-Voice monitor tomorrow...


----------



## Angus Rhoads

JimmyDee said:


> I use my DSL40C as my home practice amp. Absolutely love it.
> 
> Then, I got a Line 6 Helix effects processor about a month ago...
> I know this is a Marshall forum, and tube purists will squawk about me using an effects processor.
> Yada, Yada...
> 
> I originally had the Helix plugged into the front of the amp... sounded like crap. I mean, real crap.
> So, I went out and bought an Electro-Voice ZLX-12P (FRFR Powered Monitor Speaker).
> I'll admit, the EV monitor sounds really good with the Helix... but it doesn't have that brute power that I missed with the Marshall.
> 
> This morning, I tried plugging the Helix into the Return on the back of the Marshall (not sure why I didn't think of this before).
> This effectively cuts-out the Marshall's preamp, and just goes straight into the power amp section.
> HO - LY - CRAP! It sounds friggen amazing!
> 
> Again, tube purists are probably cringing right now... but using the Helix as the preamp, and the Marshall as the power amp, is an amazing combo!
> Really amazing.
> 
> I'll be returning the Electro-Voice monitor tomorrow...


You think that sounds good, find a Marshall JMD to play through...


----------



## Bruno60

Hello, 
Is a difference of 1mV between 2 tubes problematic? I still have a small gap (0.2 / 0.4 mV) when I adjust the bias, but checking after a few weeks I have 1mV gap. The tubes are new and paired.


----------



## ken361

no biggie


----------



## solarburn

Bruno60 said:


> Hello,
> Is a difference of 1mV between 2 tubes problematic? I still have a small gap (0.2 / 0.4 mV) when I adjust the bias, but checking after a few weeks I have 1mV gap. The tubes are new and paired.



No.

I would go up to 8mv variance before I'd worry. Unless I hear hum or other noises. That's me though. 1mv is not and issue.


----------



## solarburn

ken361 said:


> no biggie



How's the Tele on the Green side? You been dialing it in?


----------



## jgnelson

can anyone tell me which Marshall "amp head cabinet" the DSL40c amp section would fit into?


----------



## Micky

solarburnDSL50 said:


> No.
> 
> I would go up to 8mv variance before I'd worry. Unless I hear hum or other noises. That's me though. 1mv is not and issue.


Also you don't need a matched pair as there are individual bias controls for each tube.


----------



## ken361

solarburnDSL50 said:


> How's the Tele on the Green side? You been dialing it in?


pretty good but with the SAS pedal on the cleans is magical


----------



## solarburn

ken361 said:


> pretty good but with the SAS pedal on the cleans is magical



Right on.


----------



## ken361

I get pretty good straight cleans to Joe Walsh funk 49 grit that I like


----------



## solarburn

ken361 said:


> I get pretty good straight cleans to Joe Walsh funk 49 grit that I like



Welcome to funky town!


----------



## solarburn

When I coil split I get some great neck tones. Night and day compared to full humbucker. Pretty daem fun.


----------



## jgnelson

Micky said:


> Here are some gut shots of my DSL40c.
> Again, if anyone has any requests for specific photos let me know.
> Here is a shot of the bias trimpots:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a shot of the bias test connector.
> Remember, when checking/setting the bias, the left trimpot adjusts the right test point...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I finally got the bias evened out at 38.xx and all seems very stable:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will post more as time permits...


----------



## Bownse

jgnelson said:


> can anyone tell me which Marshall "amp head cabinet" the DSL40c amp section would fit into?



I detailed my project just for these questions.

http://www.fjr-tips.org/misc/amp/DSL40C_Mod/A_Project.html


----------



## BanditPanda

jgnelson said:


> can anyone tell me which Marshall "amp head cabinet" the DSL40c amp section would fit into?



This company makes them specifically for the DSL40C

stagecraftgear.com
BP


----------



## FACTION95

I just picked up a slightly used DSL40C from CL over the weekend. Last night I biased it to 34mV. Factory setting was around 38.5mV. I also replaced the 70 Eighty with a G12M-65. I still haven't had a chance to really play it yet though .









Next I'm planning on rolling some tubes through V1 and V2. I was thinking the Mullard reissues. I want that classic Marshall sound.


----------



## ken361

I see that at Friedman amps dave biases his EL34's from 29 to 32 mv per tube 480 PV just like I have been preaching from my tech 30 to 32


----------



## ken361

FACTION95 said:


> I just picked up a slightly used DSL40C from CL over the weekend. Last night I biased it to 34mV. Factory setting was around 38.5mV. I also replaced the 70 Eighty with a G12M-65. I still haven't had a chance to really play it yet though .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I'm planning on rolling some tubes through V1 and V2. I was thinking the Mullard reissues. I want that classic Marshall sound.


looks mint congrats! I like the stock JJ preamp tubes, I hear good about the mullards also


----------



## FACTION95

So the stock Marshall tubes are Rebranded JJ's? Does anyone know if Marshall uses different tubes for their higher-end amps like the Hand Wires Series?


----------



## ken361

My preamp tubes were


----------



## nevermind

Finally got around to lifting c19. Checked my Tungsol EL34b bias and it is set to 36.4mv. Put 'er back together. I do have a Ruby 12AT7 tube in V2. The 70/80 is long gone and I'm currently using a 16ohm Texas Heat. The back of the amp is on the floor and the front is raised about 2". She sounds pretty doggone good on L1 or L2 with these "o'clock" settings:

G-12
V-9
T-1
M-12
B-2
P-2
Res-10
TS-In or out sounds good just different
Rev-9

That is all. 
Carry on...


----------



## MarshallDog

FACTION95 said:


> So the stock Marshall tubes are Rebranded JJ's? Does anyone know if Marshall uses different tubes for their higher-end amps like the Hand Wires Series?



Dont believe so, I have a 3000.00 hand wired Marshall CME Astoria Custom and it showed up with Shuguang pres and Shuguang KT-66's. Those lasted about two days.


----------



## nevermind

ken361 said:


> I see that at Friedman amps dave biases his EL34's from 29 to 32 mv per tube 480 PV just like I have been preaching from my tech 30 to 32



I honestly just saw this! I might have tried 32mv but oh well, next time.

What are we getting by using that low setting? I'm not really worried about longer life. I just want tight and powerful MARSHALL CRUNCH.


----------



## ken361

nevermind said:


> I honestly just saw this! I might have tried 32mv but oh well, next time.
> 
> What are we getting by using that low setting? I'm not really worried about longer life. I just want tight and powerful MARSHALL CRUNCH.


red was smoother sounding I hit the harmonics better then when it was at 36 which was a little messy hairy sounding


----------



## nevermind

Tried 31.5mv and it seemed a bit too thin through 2 1x12 closed back cabs with greenbacks. Went back to ~36mv and L2 is where it's AT baby...


----------



## ken361

I didnt find it thin at all at 32 and 36 wasnt any fatter it sounded off kinda fizzy brighter


----------



## nevermind

ken361 said:


> I didnt find it thin at all at 32 and 36 wasnt any fatter it sounded off kinda fizzy brighter



Roger that. FWIW, my ears are probably shot but I was hearing tighter more defined, thicker crunch.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

LOL, you guys need to spend less time tinkering with the guts of those amps and more time PLAYING them!


----------



## nevermind

Angus Rhoads said:


> LOL, you guys need to spend less time tinkering with guts of those amps and more time PLAYING them!



You are 100% correct, but I had it apart for other reasons so I figgered I would give it a go...


----------



## stevie Z

Micky said:


> Here are some gut shots of my DSL40c.
> Again, if anyone has any requests for specific photos let me know.
> Here is a shot of the bias trimpots:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a shot of the bias test connector.
> Remember, when checking/setting the bias, the left trimpot adjusts the right test point...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I finally got the bias evened out at 38.xx and all seems very stable:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will post more as time permits...


Hi looking for some help if possible, last night my Marshall DSL 100h head blew a fuse, I have tried to find and do research on what type of fuse I need to replace it but I am confused as there seems to be three types of slow blow fuses to choose from, one amp, three amp and 2 5 amp, any help would be much appreciated


----------



## ken361

Theres one behind the power cord plugin and 2 on PCB board,off my head right now


----------



## ken361

Have to pull the chassis and check it


----------



## Micky

stevie Z said:


> Hi looking for some help if possible, last night my Marshall DSL 100h head blew a fuse, I have tried to find and do research on what type of fuse I need to replace it but I am confused as there seems to be three types of slow blow fuses to choose from, one amp, three amp and 2 5 amp, any help would be much appreciated


As I replied to your PM, which one? There are 4 I think in the 100W...


----------



## ken361

Micky said:


> As I replied to your PM, which one? There are 4 I think in the 100W...


Ah sorry had the 40 C on my mind dam Vodka.


----------



## tymj2112

Hi all,

I'm a newbie here; just got my first Marshall - a DSL40c vintage - and I absolutely love it. I don't intend on modifying it or swapping out parts - that's not for me. Do you like?


----------



## nevermind

tymj2112 said:


> just got my first Marshall - a DSL40c vintage - and I absolutely love it. I don't intend on modifying it or swapping out parts - that's not for me. Do you like?



Have you seen a Doctor about your illness? All who are of sound mind and body make many modifications to their amps.


----------



## tymj2112

nevermind said:


> Have you seen a Doctor about your illness? All who are of sound mind and body make many modifications to their amps.



Well, I have played for 37 years and never modified an amp. I have 17 guitars and have only changed pickups on 2 of them. I prefer to just play.


----------



## Len

tymj2112 said:


> Well, I have played for 37 years and never modified an amp. I have 17 guitars and have only changed pickups on 2 of them. I prefer to just play.


Not sure why you posted the question. Yeah, there are many here who mode their amp, and many who don't.


----------



## tymj2112

Len said:


> Not sure why you posted the question. Yeah, there are many here who mode their amp, and many who don't.


Sorry for the confusing question -- "Do you like?" refers to the vintage style DSL40. I don't see too many of the vintage style here on this thread.


----------



## nevermind

tymj2112 said:


> Well, I have played for 37 years and never modified an amp. I have 17 guitars and have only changed pickups on 2 of them. I prefer to just play.



It was a joke. A funny. A ludicrous statement designed to elicit a one-sided grin or light chuckle. Carry on....


----------



## BanditPanda

tymj2112 said:


> Sorry for the confusing question -- "Do you like?" refers to the vintage style DSL40. I don't see too many of the vintage style here on this thread.




Here's mine.


----------



## Ian Alderman

Been a member for a good minute, liked some posts, read extensive amounts of the Marshall DSL40C thread. 

Fast forward in time and I pulled the trigger on one, and I'm pretty happy now that Sweetwater sent me a replacement. Here's a little clip I did about a month ago, Ken I know you've seen this at TGP lol 



But anyway dudes, I think this is my first posting here, and here I am


----------



## solarburn

Ian Alderman said:


> Been a member for a good minute, liked some posts, read extensive amounts of the Marshall DSL40C thread.
> 
> Fast forward in time and I pulled the trigger on one, and I'm pretty happy now that Sweetwater sent me a replacement. Here's a little clip I did about a month ago, Ken I know you've seen this at TGP lol
> 
> 
> 
> But anyway dudes, I think this is my first posting here, and here I am




Well welcome to the forum and to club DSL!

Sounded great. Thick curvy and juicy!


----------



## ken361

Funny I was checking your profile on you tube and wondering how your still digging it seriously. I was boosting the poweramp today on the cleans it sounded decent and loud!


----------



## Ian Alderman

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Well welcome to the forum and to club DSL!
> 
> Sounded great. Thick curvy and juicy!




Thanks man! Thick curvy and juicy is the way I like it!


----------



## Ian Alderman

ken361 said:


> Funny I was checking your profile on you tube and wondering how your still digging it seriously. I was boosting the poweramp today on the cleans it sounded decent and loud!




I'm digging it! Yesterday I bought and am waiting on a Tone Freak Naked Overdrive to boost the DSL with, and that should be some fun! I haven't tinkered too much with the amp itself, going to reserve judgment until I get the Motor City Pickups in the guitar and drive it with the Naked. Other than that, I'm pretty content with the DSL


----------



## ken361

Being from the Motorcity and Jim B using them they sound kickass!


----------



## Ian Alderman

ken361 said:


> Funny I was checking your profile on you tube and wondering how your still digging it seriously. I was boosting the poweramp today on the cleans it sounded decent and loud!




Are you still using that Fryette?


----------



## ken361

Yeah as a boost


----------



## ken361

Can boost the crunch for more breakup and still retain the amps warmth and tone ,boosting the clean is nice too and can get a lot louder then normaly and add dynamics.Gain at 1 o'clock or so gets this fat ass fuzz tones.


----------



## Ian Alderman

I'm becoming more and more fond of the clean, and lead 1. Lead 2 just isn't doing it, but I can still get good, thicker manageable tones there. I'm overall surprised in a good way with the flexibility of the amp. Alice in Chains tones are really shining with this, so too are Thin Lizzy and some Mastodon. I feel as I get older, and more established in my playing, that I don't need an overwhelming amount of gain to get heavy. I'm not going to get wild with tube rolling, when the time comes I'm looking forward to grabbing a set of JJs. I'll put up a super quick Alice clip; I think with the TS9 I've got, it did a reasonably close newer AIC tone


----------



## Ian Alderman

I think I've got to retract the Lead 2 remark, I used Lead 2 here lol


----------



## Len

Ian Alderman said:


> I think I've got to retract the Lead 2 remark, I used Lead 2 here lol



I live on lead 2, and get many compliments on tone, although I’ve modified it a little.


----------



## ken361

Ian Alderman said:


> I'm becoming more and more fond of the clean, and lead 1. Lead 2 just isn't doing it, but I can still get good, thicker manageable tones there. I'm overall surprised in a good way with the flexibility of the amp. Alice in Chains tones are really shining with this, so too are Thin Lizzy and some Mastodon. I feel as I get older, and more established in my playing, that I don't need an overwhelming amount of gain to get heavy. I'm not going to get wild with tube rolling, when the time comes I'm looking forward to grabbing a set of JJs. I'll put up a super quick Alice clip; I think with the TS9 I've got, it did a reasonably close newer AIC tone


 I don't get when some say the red channels thin and fizzy I got a pretty fat sounding tones out of my amp. Some haven't check the bias because its usually high past 40 LOL or cutting the c19 my red 1shakes the concrete slab at times


----------



## JimmyDee

Ian Alderman said:


> Been a member for a good minute, liked some posts, read extensive amounts of the Marshall DSL40C thread.
> 
> Fast forward in time and I pulled the trigger on one, and I'm pretty happy now that Sweetwater sent me a replacement. Here's a little clip I did about a month ago, Ken I know you've seen this at TGP lol
> 
> 
> 
> But anyway dudes, I think this is my first posting here, and here I am




Nice PRS guitar too!


----------



## Ian Alderman

JimmyDee said:


> Nice PRS guitar too!



Thanks man!


----------



## Ian Alderman

ken361 said:


> I don't get when some say the red channels thin and fizzy I got a pretty fat sounding tones out of my amp. Some haven't check the bias because its usually high past 40 LOL or cutting the c19 my red 1shakes the concrete slab at times



Know what I think? I'm thinking that people are probably having that with the 70/80 speaker, probably all of the gain or at least most of the gain, and probably aren't balancing the drive and the volume. Besides stock tubes, I can't think of why people are getting thin fizzy tones from the Marshall. Perhaps people are also judging by YouTube clips?


----------



## Micky

Ian Alderman said:


> Know what I think? I'm thinking that people are probably having that with the 70/80 speaker, probably all of the gain or at least most of the gain, and probably aren't balancing the drive and the volume. Besides stock tubes, I can't think of why people are getting thin fizzy tones from the Marshall. Perhaps people are also judging by YouTube clips?


Both. Especially at bedroom volumes.
Once you get this rig up over 5 or so on the volume, the bright cap on the Ultra Channel has very little effect.
So all that is left is the speaker and its frequency response characteristics.

By adjusting both, you can get a tone that is better tailored to your liking.
Marshall amps are all bright (in order to cut thru the mix) and many users modify these parameters not only on the DSL's but many other models as well.

Once you play the DSL thru Greenbacks (Celestion) or Green Berets (Eminence) you will notice a big difference.


----------



## ken361

I had my presence at 8 for a little bit today believe it or not  it wasn't bad with the creamback I get a fat tone when playing in the condos basement. Cutting raw tone man it was loud on 4 with the les Paul Special II, cheap guitar kills it for that acdc type tone. When I first got the amp 3 years ago with the stock bias and the 70/80 I would run the EQ all on around 4 to tame it now I can run it at 6 or 7 and can even dime the mids now and still sound good


----------



## MarshallDog

ken361 said:


> I had my presence at 8 for a little bit today believe it or not  it wasn't bad with the creamback I get a fat tone when playing in the condos basement. Cutting raw tone man it loud on 4 with the les Paul Special II, cheap guitar kills it for that acdc type tone. When I first got the amp 3 years ago with the stock bias and the 70/80 I would run the EQ all on around 4 to tame it now I can run it at 6 or 7 and can even dime the mids now and still sound good



Got to love those Creambacks!?


----------



## ken361

Ian Alderman said:


> Know what I think? I'm thinking that people are probably having that with the 70/80 speaker, probably all of the gain or at least most of the gain, and probably aren't balancing the drive and the volume. Besides stock tubes, I can't think of why people are getting thin fizzy tones from the Marshall. Perhaps people are also judging by YouTube clips?


Some its not there thing I guess a guy on TGP biased his to 32 to 34 with a creamback and said it was still kinda fizzy and that so he might cut the c19. Maybe someone's fizz is to another guy just high gain with bite? you need that high end for that 80's tones.


----------



## Ian Alderman

Micky said:


> Both. Especially at bedroom volumes.
> Once you get this rig up over 5 or so on the volume, the bright cap on the Ultra Channel has very little effect.
> So all that is left is the speaker and its frequency response characteristics.
> 
> By adjusting both, you can get a tone that is better tailored to your liking.
> Marshall amps are all bright (in order to cut thru the mix) and many users modify these parameters not only on the DSL's but many other models as well.
> 
> Once you play the DSL thru Greenbacks (Celestion) or Green Berets (Eminence) you will notice a big difference.



Precisely. When the DSL first came out, my playing was a lot different than it is now, and back then I don't think it would'v been a good fit for me at the time, but now and into the foreseeable future, it's a great match. I'm constantly thinking to myself that the tone is really good, and it'll only get better by being in the mix of a band. I haven't had any desire to snip the C19, and don't plan on it. I'm thinking that some people are wanting to run this thing like a Boogie or a 5150, and end up getting sorely disappointed in the outcome. The Creamback is a great match for the Marshall DSL40C and I bet that a Redback would be downright glorious. Also, running the DSL into a cab with great speakers would be another option to note. (Haven't tried it, but I'm open to the idea.) This thing needs to breathe ultimately, and if folks aren't in the capacity to let it, there' going to be disappointment up ahead.


----------



## ken361

In reality its maybe there pickups, picks, whats in the signal ? ect. My delay with a One Spot added high end to my sound so I took it out now its warmer again. Delay with a battery was better for sure. I had a power supply when I was using pedals for 2 years then sold it of when I got the Marshall. I noticed the Bogner pedals sounded better of a good power supply over the One Spot.


----------



## Ian Alderman

ken361 said:


> Some its not there thing I guess a guy on TGP biased his to 32 to 34 with a creamback and said it was still kinda fizzy and that so he might cut the c19. Maybe someone's fizz is to another guy just high gain with bite? you need that high end for that 80's tones.



Wonder if he's still using stock tubes? I've always thought of the Marshall sizzle as bacon in the frying pan. I see it as high end with bite that works not only for those 80s tones, but early to mid 90s as well. Definitely not something for über modern chugga chugga djent stuff. I think it can take some by surprise if they're not used to that kind of tone, and like you'r saying, may not be the tone for certain people.


----------



## ken361

Ian Alderman said:


> Precisely. When the DSL first came out, my playing was a lot different than it is now, and back then I don't think it would'v been a good fit for me at the time, but now and into the foreseeable future, it's a great match. I'm constantly thinking to myself that the tone is really good, and it'll only get better by being in the mix of a band. I haven't had any desire to snip the C19, and don't plan on it. I'm thinking that some people are wanting to run this thing like a Boogie or a 5150, and end up getting sorely disappointed in the outcome. The Creamback is a great match for the Marshall DSL40C and I bet that a Redback would be downright glorious. Also, running the DSL into a cab with great speakers would be another option to note. (Haven't tried it, but I'm open to the idea.) This thing needs to breathe ultimately, and if folks aren't in the capacity to let it, there' going to be disappointment up ahead.


Yeah running it with a cab with greenbacks would make me happy open backs are great for distributing the sound throughout the room, I noticed that when I had fender amps.


----------



## Ian Alderman

ken361 said:


> In reality its maybe there pickups, picks, whats in the signal ? ect. My delay with a One Spot added high end to my sound so I took it out now its warmer again. Delay with a battery was better for sure. I had a power supply when I was using pedals for 2 years then sold it of when I got the Marshall. I noticed the Bogner pedals sounded better of a good power supply over the One Spot.



I'v always thought that my guitar was not only super resonant with a good bit of low mids that dominate the treble, letting just enough out to ring through and felt that a Marshall or a Marshally type amp would compliment the guitar perfectly, and so far I haven't been disappointed. The lows tightened up, no flub and the treble rang through nicely. In the end, the guitar and amp complimented one another, working together resulting in a full, cohesive tone. 

Like you say, there are so many things that could influence tone, and perception is another factor that comes into play as well


----------



## ken361

All you have to do is to lower the neck pup it will warm it some and lower the gain. I didnt realize how low I had it for a while when I was using the ET 65 because i was trying to tame it. Was at 3 to 4 MM I raised it to 2mm fretting the last fret. It gave me that bite I was missing I first thought it was the speaker because it wasnt as loud and less gainy. Now its loud and ballsy again im digging it. There is no maple cap keep in mine maybe thats why it sounds good that way who knows. The EVH guitar sounds just right also.


----------



## ken361

Ian Alderman said:


> I'v always thought that my guitar was not only super resonant with a good bit of low mids that dominate the treble, letting just enough out to ring through and felt that a Marshall or a Marshally type amp would compliment the guitar perfectly, and so far I haven't been disappointed. The lows tightened up, no flub and the treble rang through nicely. In the end, the guitar and amp complimented one another, working together resulting in a full, cohesive tone.
> 
> Like you say, there are so many things that could influence tone, and perception is another factor that comes into play as well


That speaker handles the bass pretty tight!


----------



## Ian Alderman

MarshallDog said:


> Got to love those Creambacks!?



As much as I'm tempted by a Redback, I absolutely love the sound of the Creamback, and mine hasn't even thought about breaking in yet.


----------



## ken361

Ian Alderman said:


> As much as I'm tempted by a Redback, I absolutely love the sound of the Creamback, and mine hasn't even thought about breaking in yet.


How many loud hours on it? got mine used I imagine its broken in


----------



## Ian Alderman

ken361 said:


> How many loud hours on it? got mine used I imagine its broken in



Sweetwater sent me a replacement after a power tube went out, so on the replacement I've only just begun. I might have at the moment a princely sum of 6 hours, with about an hour and a half being LOUD.


----------



## Ian Alderman

Hey dudes! I haven't seen too much if any info on this thread, has anyone replaced the caps with Sozo caps? Down the road I might look into it. Still honeymooning with the DSL 40C too much to get too worked up, but curious if anyone's gone ahead and done that or not.


----------



## Micky

Ian Alderman said:


> Hey dudes! I haven't seen too much if any info on this thread, has anyone replaced the caps with Sozo caps? Down the road I might look into it. Still honeymooning with the DSL 40C too much to get too worked up, but curious if anyone's gone ahead and done that or not.


Sozo caps aren't all that. More hype than anything else... You aren't gonna find much improvement in tone or reliability over the originals.
If anything, I would look into Mallory 150's, their reliability is off the charts. That or Orange Drops if you need radial caps.


----------



## MarshallDog

Ian Alderman said:


> Hey dudes! I haven't seen too much if any info on this thread, has anyone replaced the caps with Sozo caps? Down the road I might look into it. Still honeymooning with the DSL 40C too much to get too worked up, but curious if anyone's gone ahead and done that or not.



I replaced about a dozen caps with Mallorys a while back. Fun project. I posted pics way back and so did another member. Not sure if it was worth it IMO. If it changed anything you would probably need dog ears to hear it...I couldnt.


----------



## Ian Alderman

Micky said:


> Sozo caps aren't all that. More hype than anything else... You aren't gonna find much improvement in tone or reliability over the originals.
> If anything, I would look into Mallory 150's, their reliability is off the charts. That or Orange Drops if you need radial caps.



With the Marshall I'm taking the same approach I have with my guitar and that's to take time and really become acquainted with it before doing any modifications. Initially I was thinking Redback, KT77s, and Sozo caps but I'm digging the amp bone stock. It just works. I'm yet to have the need to replace caps in any amp I've owned, so I think I'll play safe. For the first time in quite awhile, since I had the Mesa Nomad 45 8 years ago, I've had an amp that I truly "set it and forget it".

That's a shame about the Sozo caps being hype, but I can see the potential for making large profits from those looking to achieve a more vintage Marshall tone. I'll admit, I dug the whole Led Zep Sozo font thing, as shallow as it seems.

I find that too much modding and tinkering can lead up to lots of work, time lost, only to return things back to stock form lol


----------



## MarshallDog

Ian Alderman said:


> With the Marshall I'm taking the same approach I have with my guitar and that's to take time and really become acquainted with it before doing any modifications. Initially I was thinking Redback, KT77s, and Sozo caps but I'm digging the amp bone stock. It just works. I'm yet to have the need to replace caps in any amp I've owned, so I think I'll play safe. For the first time in quite awhile, since I had the Mesa Nomad 45 8 years ago, I've had an amp that I truly "set it and forget it.
> 
> That's a shame about the Sozo caps being hype, but I can see the potential for making large profits from those looking to achieve a more vintage Marshall tone. I'll admit, I dug the whole Led Zep Sozo font thing, as shallow as it seems.
> 
> I find that too much modding and tinkering can lead up to lots of work, time lost, only to return things back to stock form lol



Yup, thats why I do mods that can easily be reversed. All I have done is lowered the two bright caps, added the Creamback, added a real choke and changed two resistors which lowered only channel 2 Gain a bit making it sounds thicker, smoother and more organic/vintage as a way to describe it.


----------



## Ian Alderman

MarshallDog said:


> I replaced about a dozen caps with Mallorys a while back. Fun project. I posted pics way back and so did another member. Not sure if it was worth it IMO. If it changed anything you would probably need dog ears to hear it...I couldnt.



After surfing the web, that seems to be the overall consensus reached. I've got a wiring kit for my guitar that has CTS pots and Orange Drop caps, but I don't think I'll hear a discernable tone, but my interest there is more about longevity than a perceptual tone improvement. It seems like a fun project, and maybe after several years I may do it with the DSL40, but probably won't if it takes dog ears to hear any difference.


----------



## Ian Alderman

Hey dudes what's up? I just got done playing with the DSL 40C and I'm wondering if any of you have experienced this.

I was playing, then I turned the volume up to 4. Was enjoying the cranked up tone for a few minutes then I heard a barely audible "bip" sound followed immediately by silence. 

Did I happen to knock something loose, or is the speaker blown? There weren't any weird hissing and crackling noises or burning smells, it just stopped making sound altogether. It wasn't the pedals or cables, I checked those and they were fine.

Any help is appreciated!


----------



## ken361

Had a new preamp tube go quiet right away I could hardly hear it


----------



## Ian Alderman

ken361 said:


> Had a new preamp tube go quiet right away I could hardly hear it



First one I got, power tube. It very well could be a preamp tube. I'm hoping that's all. The little bip sound is concerning though.


----------



## MarshallDog

Oh shit man, your amp has the curse. How old is it, is it still under warranty. There are quite a few DSL 40C members here that have had that happen including me. Let me guess, if you turn it off then back on its fine right??? There are several posts in this thread about this same thing. Try searching for it, its there. If under warranty, take it back and get a new one. A Tech may simply change out the main PCB, not sure? I think Marshall is aware of this issue. I've spent many hours trouble shooting this issue with no luck and I could never make the amp do it. I replaced the power and standby switch, checked every connection making sure they are tight, replaced tubes, using chop sticks banged on components when powered up, re-seated the fuses and re-flowed many solder joints. Mine has not done it in a long time but now that I mention it look out. Its very frustrating.


----------



## ken361

a fuse maybe??


----------



## MarshallDog

Ian Alderman said:


> First one I got, power tube. It very well could be a preamp tube. I'm hoping that's all. The little bip sound is concerning though.



I believe the "bip" sound is an on board relay...Ive heard the same thing.


----------



## ken361

MarshallDog said:


> I believe the "bip" sound is an on board relay...Ive heard the same thing.


you have a small box dam love the demos do a shootout with dsl and friedman red channels


----------



## MarshallDog

ken361 said:


> you have a small box dam love the demos do a shootout with dsl and friedman red channels



I'm shy...


----------



## ken361

just a few chords


----------



## Ian Alderman

MarshallDog said:


> Oh shit man, your amp has the curse. How old is it, is it still under warranty. There are quite a few DSL 40C members here that have had that happen including me. Let me guess, if you turn it off then back on its fine right??? There are several posts in this thread about this same thing. Try searching for it, its there. If under warranty, take it back and get a new one. A Tech may simply change out the main PCB, not sure? I think Marshall is aware of this issue. I've spent many hours trouble shooting this issue with no luck and I could never make the amp do it. I replaced the power and standby switch, checked every connection making sure they are tight, replaced tubes, using chop sticks banged on components when powered up, re-seated the fuses and re-flowed many solder joints. Mine has not done it in a long time but now that I mention it look out. Its very frustrating.



I feel like it's accursed! Lol 

I got this amp maybe a week ago. Still lots of warranty coverage left from Sweetwater. The DSL40C this one replaced is packed up in my back seat ready to ship to Sweetwater. Do you remember how far back in this thread people have posted about the issues?

I turned it off, and when I went to turn it back on, nothing. It sounds like a very frustrating experience you've had there, and I don't blame the frustration. I'm getting there myself.

I had just talked to my Sweetwater sales engineer person a few hours ago and told her all was well with the Marshall, and that's the kicker. Not a very superstitious person but I feel like I jinxed myself. 

Maybe I'm making a premature decision but I think that if this happens again, I might end up looking at something else. I really like the amp, but my confidence in it right now is broken.


----------



## MarshallDog

Ian Alderman said:


> I feel like it's accursed! Lol
> 
> I got this amp maybe a week ago. Still lots of warranty coverage left from Sweetwater. The DSL40C this one replaced is packed up in my back seat ready to ship to Sweetwater. Do you remember how far back in this thread people have posted about the issues?
> 
> I turned it off, and when I went to turn it back on, nothing. It sounds like a very frustrating experience you've had there, and I don't blame the frustration. I'm getting there myself.
> 
> I had just talked to my Sweetwater sales engineer person a few hours ago and told her all was well with the Marshall, and that's the kicker. Not a very superstitious person but I feel like I jinxed myself.
> 
> Maybe I'm making a premature decision but I think that if this happens again, I might end up looking at something else. I really like the amp, but my confidence in it right now is broken.



Man there are 458 pages here, no idea??? Dont think its worth your time either looking for it. So yours wont turn back on at all? Consider that a positive thing. Most of these issues have been intermittent and its next to impossible to determine when it will happen again if ever which makes it all that much more difficult. If yours is dead, dont mess with it and send it back. Get another one if you want, maybe the 3rd ones a charm??? If you have new pre-amp tubes and or power tubes lying around you might consider replacing the pre-amp tubes first BUT be very careful not to scratch the screws or anything else in case its really AFU. You dont want to leave signs you were in there if you return it.


----------



## ken361

Have any power tubes to try??


----------



## MarshallDog

ken361 said:


> Have any power tubes to try??



I think thats a question??? You could start by replacing the pre-amp tubes one by one to see if it powers up. If not, you could change out the power tubes. I would not even re-bias it (thats my opinion) just change them out and quickly see if the power/sound comes back. Do this fast and for only as long as it takes to turn it on hear sound and shut it off. You dont want to red plate the tubes for long at all if the bias is way off. If its one of the tubes, I guess you could contact Sweetwater and get new tubes or money back whatever, they are good about that stuff. Once you have it figured out and it was just a tube you can rebias it then. Theres a lot of things it could be. Good luck and let us know how it goes.


----------



## Ian Alderman

Sadly I don't have any spare tubes about. Both power tubes have the glow like they should. I just got done trying again, let the tubes warm up for a good while, and nothing. It lights up, I can see the green and red lights when I switch channels, but it's as quiet as the grave.


----------



## MarshallDog

Ian Alderman said:


> Sadly I don't have any spare tubes about. Both power tubes have the glow like they should. I just got done trying again, let the tubes warm up for a good while, and nothing. It lights up, I can see the green and red lights when I switch channels, but it's as quiet as the grave.



If you dont have spare tubes and the power tubes are lit up and the channels are switching then I would call Sweetwater and get a new one. What the hell its a pain I know and it sucks but at least its really dead and you dont need this crap. Try again and again and again until you get a good one. They are good amps once you get one that works. Its not your fault. I'm sure Sweetwater is no stranger to this either. Let us know how it goes. Call them now is my suggestion.


----------



## Ian Alderman

Well dudes, the ball is in my court! I've got the option to get another one, or I can wait for the updated DSL. Sweetwater is going to do the Creamback option on these updated DSL amps, and that is awesome! Spent a good while geeking out and talking NAMM stuff, so I told the guy I'd wait to see what the big reveal from Marshall is going to be, and I'll be checking NAMM coverage to see if that's the road I want to take. If I do this, it could be a couple months before the updated DSL amps become available.


----------



## ken361

Updated sounds cool but prb going to be long wait, I would just get a extra preamp tube and check them all or find someone local I was lucky to have a tech nearby that services amps that he picks then up at a local store and works at home then drops them back off at the store all under warranty.


----------



## MarshallDog

ken361 said:


> Updated sounds cool but prb going to be long wait, I would just get a extra preamp tube and check them all or find someone local I was lucky to have a tech nearby that services amps that he picks then up at a local store and works at home then drops them back off at the store all under warranty.



Do they not have another one in stock they can send you??

Yeah I agree with Ken361. You should really have a spare set of pre-amp tubes and EL34s anyway and if you order from The Tube Store you'll get them in 3-4 depending on where you live.


----------



## ken361

Pretty reliable amps I been here 3 years now its mostly a tube issues but things can happen nothing is perfect! I couldn't figure out the static sound i had, my dealer saying its not a tube issue then I asked Marty and he said oh it can happen so I bought a new set to test and yep that was the problem! 8 months old.


----------



## MarshallDog

ken361 said:


> Pretty reliable amps I been here 3 years now its mostly a tube issues but things can happen nothing is perfect! I couldn't figure out the static sound i had, my dealer saying its not a tube issue then I asked Marty and he said oh it can happen so I bought a new set to test and yep that was the problem! 8 months old.



Its also the tube brand. EH and or TS 7025s will quiet her right down based on my experience!!!

Forgot to mention Im running Mullards in mine.


----------



## Ian Alderman

MarshallDog said:


> Do they not have another one in stock they can send you??
> 
> Yeah I agree with Ken361. You should really have a spare set of pre-amp tubes and EL34s anyway and if you order from The Tube Store you'll get them in 3-4 depending on where you live.



They're out of stock right now, and it should be a few days. I'm thinking though, about going ahead with #3 instead of waiting for the updated version. I like what I've got, just seemed to have the curse there.


----------



## MarshallDog

Ian Alderman said:


> They're out of stock right now, and it should be a few days. I'm thinking though, about going ahead with #3 instead of waiting for the updated version. I like what I've got, just seemed to have the curse there.



Hang in their man, the 3rd ones got be a charm. Keep us posted.


----------



## ken361

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/amplifiers-effects/marshall-dsl40cr-40w-1x12-tube-guitar-combo-amp
New amps look good, i know when I had a HW Vox the amp sounded a bit better with the master volume taking out of the circuit playing loud but for lower playing it should be nice


----------



## Ian Alderman

ken361 said:


> http://www.musiciansfriend.com/amplifiers-effects/marshall-dsl40cr-40w-1x12-tube-guitar-combo-amp
> New amps look good, i know when I had a HW Vox the amp sounded a bit better with the master volume taking out of the circuit playing loud but for lower playing it should be nice



That looks pretty good! Interesting choice of speaker with the V Type. The current DSL40C I didn't have too much trouble balancing the volume between channels, the addition of the Master volume is a nice touch for the super low volume crowd.


----------



## Ian Alderman

MarshallDog said:


> Hang in their man, the 3rd ones got be a charm. Keep us posted.



I'll do for sure, if it weren't a lengthy wait I'd jump on one of the new ones. If the curse continues, I'd have an excuse to try them but hopefully that's not necessary! Lol


----------



## MarshallDog

Ian Alderman said:


> That looks pretty good! Interesting choice of speaker with the V Type. The current DSL40C I didn't have too much trouble balancing the volume between channels, the addition of the Master volume is a nice touch for the super low volume crowd.



Interesting, I missed that added master feature. I never had much of an issue either but it problem helps if your high gain on one channel and low gain on another. Might help get better cleans out of channel one maybe...not sure...hmmmm!!!


----------



## ken361




----------



## Bruno60

https://www.andertons.co.uk/marshal...cAGA8giA&sc_llid=8028&sc_eh=04eeeaf187457c2f1


----------



## ken361

https://www.andertons.co.uk/marshall-origin-20w-all-valve-amp-head-ori20h


----------



## Ian Alderman

For anyone interested...


----------



## Bownse

Easy to hard is the path to trouble shoot.

Pull each fuse and do a continuty check with a multimeter (they can be had for cheap). Replace as needed. (fuses are consumables and not warrantied)

1 power tube and 1 pre-amp tube on hand as spares is a must for any tube amp owner.

Go through the pre-amp tubes; swapping in the known good 1 at a time and seeing if that fixes it. Do the same for the power tubes if none of the pre-amp tubes are bad.

IF, after all that, there's still no fix, consider a return. That is the thing that will cost the most in time or money.


----------



## Ian Alderman

MarshallDog said:


> Interesting, I missed that added master feature. I never had much of an issue either but it problem helps if your high gain on one channel and low gain on another. Might help get better cleans out of channel one maybe...not sure...hmmmm!!!



I can definitely see that being a handy feature on this amp. From what I listened to, the V Type sounds really good, a bit more full.

I'll have to listen a couple more times, but I may wait it out. Just played the Dual Terror for the first time in a LONG time and I think I can survive for awhile on that lol

I think if Sweetwater upgrades the new DSL amps with Creamback speakers that would take awhile, a good bit longer than the standard ones. 

At first I was a bit dismissive of the Master Volume feature, but I think I can find some good uses for it, especially going from really clean to really dirty. 

Again, I'll have to listen some more since that's what we've got for now, and make sure it's not a simple case of NAMM excitement taking over.


----------



## Ian Alderman

ken361 said:


> https://www.andertons.co.uk/marshall-origin-20w-all-valve-amp-head-ori20h



The combos in that range are also quite intriguing!


----------



## ken361

Ian Alderman said:


> The combos in that range are also quite intriguing!


instock at GC http://www.guitarcenter.com/Marshall/DSL40CR-40W-1x12-Tube-Guitar-Combo-Amp.gc


----------



## Ian Alderman

ken361 said:


> instock at GC http://www.guitarcenter.com/Marshall/DSL40CR-40W-1x12-Tube-Guitar-Combo-Amp.gc



I sent an inquiry to Sweetwater, it's available there and they'll likely send me that and I can ship #2 back to them in that box. I'm thinking since Nick Bowcott has done a demo, they should be arriving shortly. (Fingers crossed!)


----------



## KraftyBob

Ian Alderman said:


> I sent an inquiry to Sweetwater, it's available there and they'll likely send me that and I can ship #2 back to them in that box. I'm thinking since Nick Bowcott has done a demo, they should be arriving shortly. (Fingers crossed!)



That'd be cool if they swapped yours for a new one. I just bought my DSL40C in September - a few months too early maybe? I like the MIDI feature as I bought a control switcher with mine to change channels. I wonder how the volume change will be managed when switching from clean to crunch in the green channel as the difference is substantial. I have no use for the Emulated out but for $50 more I think overall it looks really good. Glad to see that Marshall was listening to it's customers.


----------



## Ian Alderman

KraftyBob said:


> That'd be cool if they swapped yours for a new one. I just bought my DSL40C in September - a few months too early maybe? I like the MIDI feature as I bought a control switcher with mine to change channels. I wonder how the volume change will be managed when switching from clean to crunch in the green channel as the difference is substantial. I have no use for the Emulated out but for $50 more I think overall it looks really good. Glad to see that Marshall was listening to it's customers.



If mine hadn't stopped working, I wouldn't really be contemplating the new DSL, I'd likely get an Origin of some sort to compliment.

I know Sweetwater is going to get the DSL40C with Creamback speaker, and this I think is probably going to be the very last batch they get before it goes over to the new DSL amps. 

The midi is cool, but I'm not entirely sure if it's something I'd use. Though that 6 way footswitch is very tempting, I do know that I've got no use for the line out, but other than that they do seem to be solid amps. 

Hopefully tomorrow I'll hear something more definitive from Sweetwater, and hopefully the 3rd time is a charm and I don't have to keep sending them amps. 

I agree with you on Marshall listening to the people, and they seemed to have done that with this new iteration of the Dual Super Lead.


----------



## ElectronJunkie74

ken361 said:


> well I would have to try it again huh I have different amps and guitars now


----------



## ElectronJunkie74

I bought the DSL 40C in Cream w/ Cream & Black fret cloth about 3 months ago. I wonder if this new DSL 40 chassis will slide in my old cab & bolt up the same ? That would be cool cause I love the look of the Cream version !!! Looks like it is the same. I'll have to wait & see.


----------



## KraftyBob

Sweet water has a nice demo of the new DSL40. The master volumes can be assigned to either of the 4 modes - which is a nice idea. The only downside I can think of, if you can call it that, is if your in the middle of a set and want to change which mode it's assigned to takes a little tweaking. Since I typically go from clean to OD1, or stay in Crunch it's not that big of a deal for me. Plus in Crunch I can roll back the volume to clean it up a little more.


----------



## Ian Alderman

Quick update dudes! So in a few days, Sweetwater is going to send me one of those new fangled Marshall DSL40CR amps! Got one allocated to meeeeee! Can't wait!


----------



## ken361

lucky still full review plz


----------



## Ian Alderman

ken361 said:


> lucky still full review plz



I don't know man, it took some trouble getting it lol 

There definitely will be a full review!


----------



## CraigP

.


----------



## ken361

Ian Alderman said:


> I don't know man, it took some trouble getting it lol
> 
> There definitely will be a full review!


having a different speaker in it going to diff some too


----------



## Ian Alderman

ken361 said:


> having a different speaker in it going to diff some too



The V Type doesn't sound too bad, but it'll be different from the Creamback for sure. It'll be interesting to see and hear the difference between the two. I've never tried a V Type before.


----------



## ken361

Some guys say its kinda bright will see I guess


----------



## LastRide

I bought my DSL40C just over a month ago. I picked up a Celestion Vintage 30 U.K. and swapped speakers. I was in the store today I bought mine from. They received another DSL40 but I don't know if it was the new version. Didn't look close enough and didn't know the new version was out.


----------



## Bownse

Ian Alderman said:


> I agree with you on Marshall listening to the people, and they seemed to have done that with this new iteration of the Dual Super Lead.



Instead of listening to people, they may simply have read this thread.


----------



## Ian Alderman

Bownse said:


> Instead of listening to people, they may simply have read this thread.



Ha! Perhaps that's all it takes man!


----------



## Bruno60

Who has already replaced the OT on the dsl40?
Is this a good improvement for the sound?


----------



## jeffb

I like the V Types matched with those fender silverface customs. Sounds great.

Have not liked them with any british crunchy amp I've heard them played with in person....bassbreakers, marshall, and orange.

To me they sound like a less strident m70. Flat eq, no depth. Absolutely a downgrade from any creamback type, and not a huge improvement over the 70/80.


----------



## Micky

Bruno60 said:


> Who has already replaced the OT on the dsl40?
> Is this a good improvement for the sound?


Yes and yes.


----------



## ken361

way too many strat videos im seeing on the new amps


----------



## KraftyBob

Ian Alderman said:


> The V Type doesn't sound too bad, but it'll be different from the Creamback for sure. It'll be interesting to see and hear the difference between the two. I've never tried a V Type before.



Colin Hoover w/DSL40C & V-Type. Only uses a Boss SD-1 for occasional boost. Post-processing I'm sure but at least you'll get an idea. I think it sounds really good and that's comparing it to the Creamback I have in mine. And this is with a <$400 guitar...


----------



## KraftyBob

ken361 said:


> way too many strat videos im seeing on the new amps



Check out this video - has a variety of guitars:


----------



## ken361

KraftyBob said:


> Colin Hoover w/DSL40C & V-Type. Only uses a Boss SD-1 for occasional boost. Post-processing I'm sure but at least you'll get an idea. I think it sounds really good and that's comparing it to the Creamback I have in mine. And this is with a <$400 guitar...



I talked to him he went back to the 70/80


----------



## Bruno60

Micky said:


> Yes and yes.


Short and sharp answer! 
Which OT did you install?


----------



## Micky

Bruno60 said:


> Short and sharp answer!
> Which OT did you install?


ClassicTone of course.
If you had read thru this thread, you would have seen the installation photos...


----------



## Georgiatec

Anyone ever turned a 40c into a 2 x 12 with Greenbacks?...I bet that would be an upgrade worth having.
I realise that it may have already been done and discussed in the previous 17 zillion post to this thread, so please excuse me for not sifting through.


----------



## Ian Alderman

I think the idea of using the V Type was because of maybe taking the brittle crunchy tones out, perhaps a tonal tweak on Marshall's behalf. Still use a brighter speaker to give it that upper mid crunch Marshall is known for, without the harshness. I'll let you guys know when it gets here, how it compares to the Creamback. I think it'd be really cool if they put the 75W Creamback in, but that'd definitely drive up the price.


----------



## Len

Georgiatec said:


> Anyone ever turned a 40c into a 2 x 12 with Greenbacks?...I bet that would be an upgrade worth having.
> I realise that it may have already been done and discussed in the previous 17 zillion post to this thread, so please excuse me for not sifting through.


You could always just Google “Marshallforum DSL40 greenback”.


----------



## ken361

The back of the amp is redesigned less open more of a closedback sorta


----------



## Ian Alderman

ken361 said:


> The back of the amp is redesigned less open more of a closedback sorta



I saw that. The weird thing is, looking at the front it appears to be the same size, but looking at the backside, she looks a little wider around the hips.


----------



## Georgiatec

Len said:


> You could always just Google “Marshallforum DSL40 greenback”.


Googled it and plenty of posts about running it through an extension 2 x 12, but none where someone has actually converted the amp to a 2 x 12. I remember a geezer converting a Haze40 into a 2 x 12....it looked great.
I wouldn't mind getting a knackered JCM600 combo and transplanting a new 40c amp into it....or even one of the old MA100 series 212's would do.


----------



## Len

Georgiatec said:


> Googled it and plenty of posts about running it through an extension 2 x 12, but none where someone has actually converted the amp to a 2 x 12. I remember a geezer converting a Haze40 into a 2 x 12....it looked great.
> I wouldn't mind getting a knackered JCM600 combo and transplanting a new 40c amp into it....or even one of the old MA100 series 212's would do.


I converted mine to a head and run it through a 1936 cab. I think a DSL40 2x12 combo would look goofy since the chassis is so narrow.


----------



## Ian Alderman

MarshallDog said:


> Yup, thats why I do mods that can easily be reversed. All I have done is lowered the two bright caps, added the Creamback, added a real choke and changed two resistors which lowered only channel 2 Gain a bit making it sounds thicker, smoother and more organic/vintage as a way to describe it.



I don't think I'll mod my amp, but how'd you describe the tone, as a matter of comparison? Meant to ask the other day. From your description, it sounds like what I imagine a Friedman sounding like.


----------



## pupleplexi

Picked up a 40CR combo today. Only played it in the house but it was a 2 minute job to dial in a very cool smooth and edgy sound. Not yet in love with the clean channel but I don't do clean much anyway. For reference I also have a modded 50 watt handwired plexi clone with the best of everything which the DSL isn't by any means. However for it's size, the price I paid, (200UK under list) the one handed portability and the sounds I can get at the flick of a switch I'd have to rate it as pretty darned good. I've always thought that the modern Marshalls I've tried have sounded sort of 'synthetic' and I realise it was the slightly fizzy sound that was hard to dial out. Well that's gone. All that stuff about 'organic' sounds is actually true in this case. I was set to spend a lot more dough than this and although the DSL probably isn't quite a Friedman it does have a very boutique amp vibe to the sounds. I'm happy.


----------



## Micky

Len said:


> I converted mine to a head and run it through a 1936 cab. I think a DSL40 2x12 combo would look goofy since the chassis is so narrow.


Not only that, but HEAVY as hell!


----------



## tmingle

KraftyBob said:


> Colin Hoover w/DSL40C & V-Type. Only uses a Boss SD-1 for occasional boost. Post-processing I'm sure but at least you'll get an idea. I think it sounds really good and that's comparing it to the Creamback I have in mine. And this is with a <$400 guitar...



This guy, Johan Segeborn & Dave Simpson(and quite a few others) should work for Marshall! There is no substitute for talent.


----------



## BowerR64

New DSL line makes me think hummm...


----------



## Ian Alderman

tmingle said:


> This guy, Johan Segeborn & Dave Simpson(and quite a few others) should work for Marshall! There is no substitute for talent.



Couldn't have said it better myself! Particularly Dave!


----------



## ken361

He always has good classic tones!


----------



## solarburn

Georgiatec said:


> Anyone ever turned a 40c into a 2 x 12 with Greenbacks?...I bet that would be an upgrade worth having.
> I realise that it may have already been done and discussed in the previous 17 zillion post to this thread, so please excuse me for not sifting through.




It sounds awesome with a 412 of G12M Greenbacks.


----------



## solarburn

tmingle said:


> This guy, Johan Segeborn & Dave Simpson(and quite a few others) should work for Marshall! There is no substitute for talent.



Not to be negative toward Johan and I love being able to hear all those classic Marshall amps. He is not even coming close to what those iconic amps can do. Not in my world.

However...so cool he gives a taste. Props to a plate full of vintage Marshall.


----------



## Bownse

Georgiatec said:


> Anyone ever turned a 40c into a 2 x 12 with Greenbacks?...I bet that would be an upgrade worth having.
> I realise that it may have already been done and discussed in the previous 17 zillion post to this thread, so please excuse me for not sifting through.



Not Greenbacks. Did a breakout with head + 2x12 closed back. Used the 75w 16ohm Creamback and the OEM 70/80 (because I had it). I like how it turned out.

This and another follow-up question seem to be having problems finding projects like this in spite of the following being (at least) a 3-peat.

http://www.fjr-tips.org/misc/amp/DSL40C_Mod/A_Project.html


----------



## Georgiatec

Bownse said:


> Not Greenbacks. Did a breakout with head + 2x12 closed back. Used the 75w 16ohm Creamback and the OEM 70/80 (because I had it). I like how it turned out.
> 
> This and another follow-up question seem to be having problems finding projects like this in spite of the following being (at least) a 3-peat.
> 
> http://www.fjr-tips.org/misc/amp/DSL40C_Mod/A_Project.html



Nice job....I have seen a few conversions to a head, not seen anyone do a 2 x 12 combo though.


----------



## tmingle

I finally got time to install external bias test points & pots on my DSL40C. 
A great mod. Pics coming(I have to resize them). I used 2 47K pots, 
http://www.newark.com/vishay/pa16np473mab15/potentiometer-47k-1w-20-panel/dp/69M4353
2 female banana connectors & a 2-way mini switch to select test points.


----------



## CraigP

tmingle said:


> I finally got time to install external bias test points & pots on my DSL40C.
> A great mod. Pics coming(I have to resize them). I used 2 47K pots,
> http://www.newark.com/vishay/pa16np473mab15/potentiometer-47k-1w-20-panel/dp/69M4353
> 2 female banana connectors & a 2-way mini switch to select test points.



Would love to see pics of this...sounds like an excellent mod and one I may consider also. What is the skill level needed to do it? And I realize that if I have to ask, it is probably beyond my skillset.

Me going into amp to check bias


----------



## tmingle

CraigP said:


> View attachment 45733
> 
> 
> Would love to see pics of this...sounds like an excellent mod and one I may consider also. What is the skill level needed to do it? And I realize that if I have to ask, it is probably beyond my skillset.
> 
> Me going into amp to check bias


Solder skills & general electrical knowledge need to be pretty high, as well as the ability to use a drill with the correct bits. It is pretty time consuming, so paying someone to do it would be cost prohibitive. I did it so it would be easier to experiment with different bias settings.


----------



## tmingle

tmingle said:


> Solder skills & general electrical knowledge need to be pretty high, as well as the ability to use a drill with the correct bits. It is pretty time consuming, so paying someone to do it would be cost prohibitive. I did it so it would be easier to experiment with different bias settings.


 Some further explanation is in order for this mod.

There is electrically no change to the amp. I have merely relocated the bias pots to the back of the chassis. The wiper of each pot is connected to 1 of the outer terminals on the circuit board, so I connected them on the pots themselves. This would explain 2 wires to each pot rather than 3. The outer 2 pins of the 3 pin test connector on the board are wired to the 2-way switch, with the common from the switch connected to the red banana connector. The center pin is connected to the black banana connector. 

Two of the pictures are included to show the wire that pulled from its' crimp connector during disassembly. 

I also included pictures of a test lead pointing at a 1/4" connector. The other end of the test lead is connected to ground. I use this to discharge the filter caps. This amp either has bleed off resistors for the B+ or I did it at the wrong spot, because I didn't get any discharge spark. I re-soldered all the resistors in the B+ line with no shocks or other issues. 

A buddy of mine who converts old tube radios & PA amps to guitar amps suggested(and provided) new ceramic power tube sockets for this amp. I will install them next. He is located in Central Pa., and can fix the un-fixable.


----------



## CraigP

Thanks for posting those pics, looks spectacular. Definitely something I would like to have on my amp.


----------



## tmingle

During the process of removing the circuit board, I found a 1/4" push on connector that was never crimped properly. The gray wire shown appears to be the B+ supply for the amp. I can't believe it worked at all. I soldered it back on and soldered the 10-15 other push on connectors as well. I also did not like the lack of solder applied to the series resistors in the B+ line and added solder to these as well. I did not find any suspicious solder joints on the smaller components. I do wish I could have taken more pics, but given my current work schedule, I really wanted to get this completed today.
Overall, I am quite impressed with the build quality of this amp. It is light years better than the DSL401 I used to own.


----------



## Bruno60

tmingle said:


> During the process of removing the circuit board, I found a 1/4" push on connector that was never crimped properly. The gray wire shown appears to be the B+ supply for the amp. I can't believe it worked at all. I soldered it back on and soldered the 10-15 other push on connectors as well. I also did not like the lack of solder applied to the series resistors in the B+ line and added solder to these as well. I did not find any suspicious solder joints on the smaller components. I do wish I could have taken more pics, but given my current work schedule, I really wanted to get this completed today.
> Overall, I am quite impressed with the build quality of this amp. It is light years better than the DSL401 I used to own.



Great job! Could you publish the complete procedure? (I do not understand the thread of CT1 ...)


----------



## lordquilton

Just wanted to make note here about a 1x12 extension cab I had someone build a little while back.
The guy did a good job making the cab match the combo, though the tolex is a shade lighter.
I'm thinking of hitting it with some black shoe polish.
He used 18mm plywood, and the same open back style as the combo.

Where it got interesting was he made the extension cab the exact same dimensions as the combo, but a little under two inches deeper.
I don't know if it's that or the plywood or both, but the bass response was noticeably different to the combo,
almost like a closed back.
At first I wasn't impressed, because by itself it sounded a little tubby,
regardless of what speaker I tried in there.
But when I stacked the combo and 1x12 as intended, the difference between the two disappeared, and they blended into one big room-filling sound.
I never discussed this with the guy who built it for me, so I have to assume he just knows his stuff.
Great sounding mini stack that fits into the back of my Toyota hatch without even putting the seats down.

It kind of reminds me of those bi-amp systems they use for bass guitar.
The combo (Creamback 65 watt) handles the cut, and the 1x12 cab (Cream Alnico 90 watt) does the thump.
I wanted to experiment with blending speakers mainly, so I'm very pleased with how it turned out.
My family may beg to differ, but we don't want them getting too complacent now, do we? 
No, we don't precious!
My only curiosity now speaker-wise is maybe trying a Vintage 30 in the mix.


----------



## tmingle

Bruno60 said:


> Great job! Could you publish the complete procedure? (I do not understand the thread of CT1 ...)


The other end test lead shown in the picture is connected to ground. I do this to discharge the B+ capacitors.


----------



## nevermind

tmingle said:


> I did it so it would be easier to experiment with different bias settings.



Any plans to put together a short youtube or soundcloud audio only of really cold bias vs really hot bias using a couple different EL34s and maybe a KT77?


----------



## Bruno60

tmingle said:


> The other end test lead shown in the picture is connected to ground. I do this to discharge the B+ capacitors.



Do you have an electrical schema for the modification?


----------



## tmingle

nevermind said:


> Any plans to put together a short youtube or soundcloud audio only of really cold bias vs really hot bias using a couple different EL34s and maybe a KT77?


I'm not ready for prime time yet as far as video goes. I doubt that anyone would hear much difference on Youtube anyway. I will say that the cooler bias (34ma) sounds better to my ears. I will also say that I really did not care for JJ EL-34L tubes in this amp. I installed some Chinese EL-34 tubes that were purchased from Nesstone on Ebay for less than $10 a tube shipped, and they sound pretty good.


----------



## ken361

Ruby chinese work well! Guy on facebook got the new dsl40 and owns the creamback version.

I cut most of the review out
I’ll just say this: the new one does not seem as muffled as the c19 mod, but I think it will really please folks that weren’t happy with the original. It’s likely the bright cap value has changed, or some other means of tweaking it. Also, there is still a presence knob and a treble knob to get that bark happening. Without really putting them through their paces yet, my initial review is: I LOVE THEM BOTH.




When I get my sh** together and really tweak them ...and actually figure out the best way to A/B them, I’ll return with some sound clips. Probably easier when I get them back to the practice pad where there’s mics and stuff. For now I just got all excited and wanted to show you some of the physical differences.


----------



## JeffMcLeod

ken361 said:


> way too many strat videos im seeing on the new amps



Agreed. These stupid blues riffs ain't showin' me squat.


----------



## tmingle

Bruno60 said:


> Do you have an electrical schema for the modification?


I've updated the original post with some explanations.


----------



## Ian Alderman

nevermind said:


> Any plans to put together a short youtube or soundcloud audio only of really cold bias vs really hot bias using a couple different EL34s and maybe a KT77?



I'd like to hear KT77s with the Marshall DSL40C! That's something I've been thinking about doing for quite awhile


----------



## Bownse

JeffMcLeod said:


> Agreed. These stupid blues riffs ain't showin' me squat.


----------



## JeffMcLeod

Bownse said:


>



lmao!


----------



## MarshallDog

Ian Alderman said:


> I'd like to hear KT77s with the Marshall DSL40C! That's something I've been thinking about doing for quite awhile



Ive tried the JJs. It was good for a while but eventually I went back to Mullard EL34s. If you PM me Ill send you a good used matched pair for free as long as you pay for shipping. Ive got a few sets and not using them.


----------



## nevermind

tmingle said:


> I doubt that anyone would hear much difference on Youtube anyway.



Understood. IMHO, youtube can help illustrate large differences. That was all I was looking to be able to hear. A 3 chord progression on cold bias and same 3 chord progression with a hotter bias would get me what I'm looking for...


----------



## pupleplexi

BTW the new CR has external bias points and pots. I say external you have to take the back panel off and you see them on the underneath of the chassis. No need to take the chassis out of the box. Or electrify yourself.....


----------



## dave999z

pupleplexi said:


> BTW the new CR has external bias points and pots. I say external you have to take the back panel off and you see them on the underneath of the chassis. No need to take the chassis out of the box. Or electrify yourself.....



Sweet! This amp is seeming more and more tempting. If I decide to update (I'm in no real hurry), probably will get all of $300 for my current DSL40C if I'm lucky.


----------



## ken361

I dont see bias pots am I missing something?


----------



## Micky

ken361 said:


> I dont see bias pots am I missing something?


Probably on the bottom of the chassis like the tubes.


----------



## nevermind

dave999z said:


> Sweet! This amp is seeming more and more tempting. If I decide to update (I'm in no real hurry), probably will get all of $300 for my current DSL40C if I'm lucky.



Yep... in the same boat but it's still not a bad boat to be in!!!


----------



## Ian Alderman

That's awesome news concerning the bias points and pots! I'm getting even more excited!


----------



## Micky

pupleplexi said:


> BTW the new CR has external bias points and pots. I say external you have to take the back panel off and you see them on the underneath of the chassis. No need to take the chassis out of the box. Or electrify yourself.....


Have you verified this? Pics?


----------



## pupleplexi

I'll put a pic up when I get a minute but there are 2 red and one black sockets for your multimeter and two red minipots. They're behind the back panel on the left hand side viewed from the back. This is the combo. BTW you can only read/adjust on the 40 watt setting. Doesn't work on half power where it reads around 90 and doesn't react to turning the pots. Found this out after a long phone call to Marshall today after I told them off for selling me a crappy amp that wouldn't go into spec.....
Another point to watch is that old stock JVM 6 button footswitches dont work. They've changed the circuitry to work with the DSL but the older one I tried in the shop didn't work. Same part number though so watch out.


----------



## ken361

Ian Alderman said:


> That's awesome news concerning the bias points and pots! I'm getting even more excited!


when you getting your amp?


----------



## Ian Alderman

ken361 said:


> when you getting your amp?



Once I get the shipping label. That thing should be here any time.


----------



## dave999z

Could someone with the new one confirm that you cannot switch the reverb off, only turn it down to zero?

And then can someone confirm that the digital reverb has an analog dry through so that when you do turn it down to zero your dry signal is not undergoing an A/D/A conversion?


----------



## Len

dave999z said:


> Could someone with the new one confirm that you cannot switch the reverb off, only turn it down to zero?
> 
> And then can someone confirm that the digital reverb has an analog dry through so that when you do turn it down to zero your dry signal is not undergoing an A/D/A conversion?


How?


----------



## solarburn

Fags...and your bias pots.


----------



## BanditPanda

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Fags...and your bias pots.


----------



## Bownse

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Fags...and your bias pots.



Not all of who bias our amps smoke (cigarettes).


----------



## Angus Rhoads

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Fags...and your bias pots.


I prefer mine to be un-biased - I mean, who the heck wants a judgemental amp, right?


----------



## dave999z

Len said:


> How?



Fair question! I don‘t know, I guess I was just hoping someone who knew the amp schematic could answer.


----------



## Len

dave999z said:


> Fair question! I don‘t know, I guess I was just hoping someone who knew the amp schematic could answer.


To tell you the truth, why not just try out the amp when it's available? The path between your strings and the speaker is pretty complex in many rigs these days. Many people use digital effects, and data converters have become really good where you cannot tell they are being used. If you are nit-picking an amp to that level of detail then I think you'll have a tough time ahead of you with guitar gear over the years.


----------



## dave999z

Len said:


> To tell you the truth, why not just try out the amp when it's available? The path between your strings and the speaker is pretty complex in many rigs these days. Many people use digital effects, and data converters have become really good where you cannot tell they are being used. If you are nit-picking an amp to that level of detail then I think you'll have a tough time ahead of you with guitar gear over the years.



On a 463-page thread obsessing over tubes, caps, chokes, speakers, etc., you think complete conversion of the signal to digital and back (for no reason if you’re not using the reverb) is too picky to wonder about?

Analog dry through is a selling point of many digital pedals. 

IMO the reverb on the last DSL40c is ass. Even if the new one is better, I wouldn’t necessarily assume Marshall is at the leading edge of A/D/A processing. (And frankly I don’t want them to be.)

That said, I’d be very surprised if the reverb circuit in this amp does not maintain an analog dry signal. But since you now cannot switch it off (only turn it down), it’s a fair question.

I emailed Marshall. Will post follow up if they ever respond.


----------



## Lamaar

Maybe it's time to make a new official tread for the dsl40cr, instead of 1 thread off 2 different amps with post about the new and old amp, a bit easier to follow.


----------



## solarburn

I want an Origin.

But I love my DSL40...


----------



## Springfield Scooter

Solar,
I see/hear you with a DSL100HR turned up to 11.


----------



## solarburn

Springfield Scooter said:


> Solar,
> I see/hear you with a DSL100HR turned up to 11.



Yes.


----------



## Springfield Scooter

Lets hear some more of that 2203 Joey and bless your neighbors!


----------



## solarburn

LOL! Marshall makes me happy!


----------



## Springfield Scooter

solarburnDSL50 said:


> LOL! Marshall makes me happy!



AMEN!


----------



## solarburn

Well listen to this amp with that shitty 70/80 speaker.


----------



## BanditPanda

Good idea Lamaar.
BP


----------



## Bownse

With a pinned link at the top of this thread (edit first post)?

Something like this:

http://www.marshallforum.com/threads/the-official-marshall-dsl40cr-information-thread.100006/


----------



## pupleplexi

I said in an earlier post that the jvm footswitch wil allow you to access the modes on the cr. Well I got one and it didn't. After a bit of a faff with Marshall they agreed. which leaves us unable to access the amps features in a live situation. Sigh....


----------



## Scumback Speakers

I'm going to borrow a friend's DSL40 as soon as my new recording stuff shows up for my iPhone. Might do a demo with 3-4 different speakers and post clips if the setup doesn't clip too badly. I tried it with the regular iPhone 6S mic, and it clipped like crazy with my JMP 50w and a 68 straight cab with pre rola G12H30's!


----------



## Ian Alderman

Scumback Speakers said:


> I'm going to borrow a friend's DSL40 as soon as my new recording stuff shows up for my iPhone. Might do a demo with 3-4 different speakers and post clips if the setup doesn't clip too badly. I tried it with the regular iPhone 6S mic, and it clipped like crazy with my JMP 50w and a 68 straight cab with pre rola G12H30's!



Can't wait to hear this! I really like Creamback speakers and am looking forward to hearing yours!


----------



## Ian Alderman

With all the talk of the newly updated DSL range, I've decided for better or worse to get one of the very last Sweetwater exclusive DSL amps!


----------



## ken361

using the fryette SAS into the cleans on monkey Man its not perfect, the tones are pretty good i think




bedroom levels


----------



## MarshallDog

ken361 said:


> using the fryette SAS into the cleans its not perfect, the tones are pretty good i think
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bedroom levels




All three sound great Ken...

Is that the Creamback in there? Any other mods done to the amp?


----------



## ken361

MarshallDog said:


> All three sound great Ken...
> 
> Is that the Creamback in there? Any other mods done to the amp?


Just the creamback/Ruby power tubes and a stock 200.00 Epiphone  Monkey Man was with the SAS pedal the rest crunch and red 1


----------



## Bownse

Thanks for the heads up on the SAS. Love it.


----------



## ken361

MarshallDog said:


> All three sound great Ken...
> 
> Is that the Creamback in there? Any other mods done to the amp?


Thanks bud!


----------



## ken361

Bownse said:


> Thanks for the heads up on the SAS. Love it.


I like it for boosting the Les Paul Special on the cleans or crunch, great for my tele boosting also! the added chime is nice. I can dial out the bassyness by turning up the bias knob!


----------



## Scumback Speakers

Ian Alderman said:


> Can't wait to hear this! I really like Creamback speakers and am looking forward to hearing yours!


I've got a couple of recording setups coming in for my iPhone, one from Shure, another from Irig to use an SM75 to record. 

Hopefully they don't get overdriven and sound like ass like the internal phone mic. Tried that the other day...laughable how much it clipped!


----------



## AlanH

Used my bone stock DSL40C for the first time in a band situstion last night. I'm in my first proper band -we're newly formed and, up to now, I've been using the crappy rehearsal room amps. So, I decided that it was about time for some DSL40C action.

I was on the classic crunch channel with the gain barely on and the volume at around 1:30 hrs (I needed a clean tone). I also added in a touch of chorus and analog delay in the loop. I took my Les Paul Signature 2014 with its '57 Classics to play through. 


Oh my goodness what a tone! This amp does not need mods in a live situation IMO.


----------



## GibsonKramer

So, after ordering the new DSL40CR. It arrived Wednesday, though I'm not picking it up until tomorrow. No big rush.

I had never got around to even checking the bias on my original 40C (and it's the trade bait). I couldn't ever dial it in, how I liked, and usually played my Jubilee, anyways.

Tonight, with a new set of test leads for my Fluke, I went ahead and decided to check/adjust.

WTH, Marshall!? 43!!!????

Wow.

I just dropped it down to 36, and it's a completely different sounding amp.

Think I might go A/B, before I pull the trigger.


----------



## ken361

GibsonKramer said:


> So, after ordering the new DSL40CR. It arrived Wednesday, though I'm not picking it up until tomorrow. No big rush.
> 
> I had never got around to even checking the bias on my original 40C (and it's the trade bait). I couldn't ever dial it in, how I liked, and usually played my Jubilee, anyways.
> 
> Tonight, with a new set of test leads for my Fluke, I went ahead and decided to check/adjust.
> 
> WTH, Marshall!? 43!!!????
> 
> Wow.
> 
> I just dropped it down to 36, and it's a completely different sounding amp.
> 
> Think I might go A/B, before I pull the trigger.


go to 32 dude let me know how you like that


----------



## Bownse

I'm at 36 and holding for about a year now. Once I need to get into the head again, I may dial it down more.


----------



## ken361

heres the new dsl 40 crap pcb mounted power tubes, guy on FB is disappointed
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10157097211834115&set=gm.1940696372913873&type=3


----------



## ken361

ken361 said:


> heres the new dsl 40 crap pcb mounted power tubes, guy on FB is disappointed
> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10157097211834115&set=gm.1940696372913873&type=3


----------



## solarburn

What a faggetti!


----------



## ken361

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I found some fag on the internet playing a DSL40...



my first concert 1981


----------



## solarburn

ken361 said:


> my first concert 1981



I fucked up. I meant me and another vid. ACDC rips!


----------



## SonVolt

465 pages? Man, my Billy Blades Grunch thread's got some catching up to do.


----------



## ken361

solarburnDSL50 said:


> What a faggetti!



boosting? sounds good


----------



## solarburn

ken361 said:


> boosting? sounds good



Its the OR15.


----------



## solarburn

SonVolt said:


> 465 pages? Man, my Billy Blades Grunch thread's got some catching up to do.



If they'd stop oral you'd get a word in.


----------



## SonVolt

solarburnDSL50 said:


> If they'd stop oral you'd get a word in.



Sick burn bro.


----------



## solarburn

SonVolt said:


> Sick burn bro.



I learned from the best!Lol


----------



## GibsonKramer

ken361 said:


>



This is a misleading picture.

Had he looked underneath, he'd see the tube socket is attached to the chassis.

The leads extend into the PCB.

There's a good 1/2" of clearance between socket, and board.


----------



## ken361

GibsonKramer said:


> This is a misleading picture.
> 
> Had he looked underneath, he'd see the tube socket is attached to the chassis.
> 
> The leads extend into the PCB.
> 
> There's a good 1/2" of clearance between socket, and board.


yeah he did and said its mounted to the board


----------



## GibsonKramer

ken361 said:


> yeah he did and said its mounted to the board



Not according to the thread you linked.

And he's wrong.

I'm staring at a picture with two screws holding a tube socket to the chassis... then it's a straight shot, up into the PCB.

Would you like to place a friendly wager?


----------



## Micky

Don't even need to remove the chassis to clearly see the finals are chassis mounted.


----------



## ken361

dont really care I have my 40 c and happy


----------



## ken361

GibsonKramer said:


> Not according to the thread you linked.
> 
> And he's wrong.
> 
> I'm staring at a picture with two screws holding a tube socket to the chassis... then it's a straight shot, up into the PCB.
> 
> Would you like to place a friendly wager?


 old 40 c


----------



## GibsonKramer

ken361 said:


> old 40 c



What does that have to do with tube sockets mounted to the PCB?

Those are the bias points, and trim pots, on the old DSL.

The guy is complaining, because he thinks his tube sockets are mounted directly to the PCB board.


----------



## ken361

GibsonKramer said:


> What does that have to do with tube sockets mounted to the PCB?
> 
> Those are the bias points, and trim pots, on the old DSL.
> 
> The guy is complaining, because he thinks his tube sockets are mounted directly to the PCB board.


Im pointing out the chassis mounted ones on the old dsl thats not on the board


----------



## GibsonKramer

ken361 said:


> Im pointing out the chassis mounted ones on the old dsl thats not on the board



I'm confused.

The link you posted, the guy is complaining because he thinks his tube sockets on his new CR are mounted directly to the PCB.

He goes on to complain about it, swearing he's going to fill out his warranty card immediately, because he's sure it will be a future issue.

He need not worry, as the new CR, they're mounted to the chassis.

Where'd we get our signals crossed?


----------



## GibsonKramer

ken361 said:


> heres the new dsl 40 crap pcb mounted power tubes, guy on FB is disappointed
> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10157097211834115&set=gm.1940696372913873&type=3



"new dsl 40 crap pcb mounted power tubes"


----------



## GibsonKramer

OK... I think I figured this out. Maybe.

I can't reach that link anymore. So I don't know if he took it down, or blocked me. I sent him a polite message. Said I'd send him the pic. I wasn't rude.

I also posted on the Marshall group.

However, it appears he's referring to an old DSL, as the new one. That makes this whole conversation loopy. 

I hope everything is cleared up.

The sockets are mounted to the chassis... AND they moved the bias points and trim pots, from the PCB, to the chassis.

That's an upgrade. 

EDIT: After examining the bias ponts further, when I did the speaker swap, I can't be 100% the bias setup is completely chassis mounted. There are two very distinct brace/screw points, right next to the bias setup. So I don't know if they just mounted some sort of brace to hold the components rigid, so they won't flex on the PCB. However, just judging by the rest of the build, I would guess they're mounted to the chassis and soldered to the PCB similar to the tube sockets.


----------



## whitecloud

Ken I have to admit it almost seems like you were rooting for the new 40 to have pcb mounted power tubes and this date back when we were wondering if it was vaporware or not. But that's just my hunch. You say you don't care your happy with the 1st gen 40c as am I and am not planning on selling it. I do have a great interest in the Origin 20H as it checks the boxes of what I don't have.


----------



## GibsonKramer

Oh yeah... The manual.

So if the 6-way f/s for the JVM doesn't work, as reported in this thread.

Marshall has some explaining to do.


----------



## Micky

Does anyone own the exact footswitch specified in the 40cr manual? I have heard it has not been released yet... (and will cost $200)


----------



## GibsonKramer

Micky said:


> Does anyone own the exact footswitch specified in the 40cr manual? I have heard it has not been released yet... (and will cost $200)



I can't find anything listed in the manual.

That's all it says. "Optional 6-way footswitch."


----------



## Micky

PEDL-91005 is listed in the manual. As far as I can tell that is not the one that ships with the JVM.


----------



## ken361

whitecloud said:


> Ken I have to admit it almost seems like you were rooting for the new 40 to have pcb mounted power tubes and this date back when we were wondering if it was vaporware or not. But that's just my hunch. You say you don't care your happy with the 1st gen 40c as am I and am not planning on selling it. I do have a great interest in the Origin 20H as it checks the boxes of what I don't have.


No kinda bummed that Marshall went back a step


----------



## Micky

ken361 said:


> No kinda bummed that Marshall went back a step


How did they do that?

Personally, I feel the new DSL40cr not only addressed the voicing issues people had with the original, they also beefed up the board and tube mounting in a very sturdy manner.

To say the finals are 'board mounted' is just wrong. They are chassis mounted (just like the original) as well as reinforced by the board with short connecting wires. How anyone can even consider stating that this is bad or a disappointment is beyond me. It is clearly an effort to improve the design.

As someone else stated, the solder used in the new models takes quite a bit more heat to melt, so anyone worrying about problems from heat should just put all those fears away. With plated-thru boards the traces are MUCH more sturdy and more resistant to heat, and I am certain over time this will prove true. The design is different from the JCM 2K series in that there is now over 1/2" space between the socket and the board, where the older series were mounted directly to the board as well as secured to the chassis. It may be a bit tougher to remove the board, but I am certain the new design will prove to be more durable.

People need to face the fact that even though these amps are produced in Asia, that Marshall QC is still in charge and their design can compete head-to-head with the UK made amps all day long.


----------



## ken361

Looks like a good thing then carry on!


----------



## Bownse

GibsonKramer said:


> What does that have to do with tube sockets mounted to the PCB?
> 
> Those are the bias points, and trim pots, on the old DSL.
> 
> The guy is complaining, because he thinks his tube sockets are mounted directly to the PCB board.



While the old V3 and V4 show the same type solder points as the new one.


----------



## GibsonKramer

Swapped out the speaker last night.

Think I'm gonna go back to the v-type, it's nicely voiced for the amp. The Marshall Vintage, I think does well. I just don't really need it in this amp. Stock sounds just as good, probably. Probably swap back out tomorrow, after I've had more time with the Vintage.


----------



## _ripper_

.


----------



## Tbomb

GibsonKramer said:


> Swapped out the speaker last night.
> 
> Think I'm gonna go back to the v-type, it's nicely voiced for the amp. The Marshall Vintage, I think does well. I just don't really need it in this amp. Stock sounds just as good, probably. Probably swap back out tomorrow, after I've had more time with the Vintage.


Just got the DSL40CR and am torn between the stock V Type speaker and the Creamback G12 H I had laying around. Right now I have the Creamback in there and love the tone, but I the V Type sounds pretty good too. Creamback just seems fuller. I just don’t know which one is better suited for this amp. Guess I just need to play around a bit more.


----------



## GibsonKramer

Tbomb said:


> Just got the DSL40CR and am torn between the stock V Type speaker and the Creamback G12 H I had laying around. Right now I have the Creamback in there and love the tone, but I the V Type sounds pretty good too. Creamback just seems fuller. I just don’t know which one is better suited for this amp. Guess I just need to play around a bit more.



Surprised, weren't you?

When I heard/read "v-type" I got real suspicious. I do not like the China Vintage 30 at all. I've compared them side-by-side with the Marshall branded, and I think the China ones sound like ice picks. Its like a brittle sound, to my ears. And I really don't like the Seventy/80, they used previously. That's like breaking glass, to my ears.

Now this new speaker, has a nice full, round sound to it. Has a bit of that Vintage growl and bite to it.

I'm kind of missing it, just sitting here typing about it. I'll be back in a while.


----------



## Tbomb

GibsonKramer said:


> Surprised, weren't you?
> 
> When I heard/read "v-type" I got real suspicious. I do not like the China Vintage 30 at all. I've compared them side-by-side with the Marshall branded, and I think the China ones sound like ice picks. Its like a brittle sound, to my ears. And I really don't like the Seventy/80, they used previously. That's like breaking glass, to my ears.
> 
> Now this new speaker, has a nice full, round sound to it. Has a bit of that Vintage growl and bite to it.
> 
> I'm kind of missing it, just sitting here typing about it. I'll be back in a while.


Yeah I was surprised by how good the v type speaker sounded. I got the Creamback g12 h for my 40c (traded in to get the 40cr) because the Seventy/80 just sounded like garbage to me... When I played the 40cr with the v type I was really surprised. It sounded really good and the speaker wasn’t even broken in yet. I do like the tone I get from the Creamback; however I’m just wondering if the v type will sound even better after it’s brokwn in a bit. Decisions....Decisions....


----------



## GibsonKramer

Tbomb said:


> Yeah I was surprised by how good the v type speaker sounded. I got the Creamback g12 h for my 40c (traded in to get the 40cr) because the Seventy/80 just sounded like garbage to me... When I played the 40cr with the v type I was really surprised. It sounded really good and the speaker wasn’t even broken in yet. I do like the tone I get from the Creamback; however I’m just wondering if the v type will sound even better after it’s brokwn in a bit. Decisions....Decisions....



Same dilemma, except mine was the Vintage. I got it to replace the Seventy/80 also, and it did a wonderful job of that. Then I traded for the CR and I had the EXACT same thought... "this isn't even broken in yet." 

I was the very first person to play the amp, out of the box. I know exactly how much time it has on it, and I'm thinking... "this could sound better?"

Man, I'm gonna give it the chance to sound even better. I said, I'd be back. I am... v-type back in the amp. Just waiting for my daughter to go to bed, and I'll try to get a 1/2 hour, or hour before I hit lights out.


----------



## solarburn

GibsonKramer said:


> Same dilemma, except mine was the Vintage. I got it to replace the Seventy/80 also, and it did a wonderful job of that. Then I traded for the CR and I had the EXACT same thought... "this isn't even broken in yet."
> 
> I was the very first person to play the amp, out of the box. I know exactly how much time it has on it, and I'm thinking... "this could sound better?"
> 
> Man, I'm gonna give it the chance to sound even better. I said, I'd be back. I am... v-type back in the amp. Just waiting for my daughter to go to bed, and I'll try to get a 1/2 hour, or hour before I hit lights out.



70/80 . Fuck this muddy clip up. So I can buy the new one!


----------



## solarburn

Or tis...


----------



## solarburn

Nice muddy old school Marshall.


----------



## GibsonKramer

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Nice muddy old school Marshall.




The DSL40C that sat in GC for quite a while, was bone stock. It sat there so long, I really can't believe they sold it as new. It was the one amp in the store, people would actually wait for. I was shocked the first time I pointed out a guy playing "my amp," and it was noted I was actually 3rd in line.

It had a Seventy/80 as well. Still that amp sounded sublime. I'm completely serious, when I say I wouldn't buy a guitar if it didn't sound good through that amp. Even though, I didn't own one.

I was so bummed when it sold. They got 2 in afterwards. One the power switch was wired backwards, so it was ON, when the amp was OFF. Had a strange chassis rattle as well. The other one, was DOA out of the box. I had given up, until that white one showed up. I was there for the unboxing, and I bought it the next day.

It didn't sound anything like that old store one. Now, I know part of it was the bias. I wish I'd have checked sooner. I might not have even thought about trading the amp. It sounded pretty good, when I took it into trade. But, at that point... with the original Seventy/80 in the DSL40C and the v-type in the CR... I was really comparing two brand new amps, with brand new speakers.

The Seventy/80 once broken in, and the amp is biased properly... can be a slick sounding speaker, especially if you've got that mojo in your fingers (which you do... I don't).

I'd really like to hear you play the new CR, and get your impressions of it. I think you'd really dig the Crunch channel.


----------



## solarburn

GibsonKramer said:


> The DSL40C that sat in GC for quite a while, was bone stock. It sat there so long, I really can't believe they sold it as new. It was the one amp in the store, people would actually wait for. I was shocked the first time I pointed out a guy playing "my amp," and it was noted I was actually 3rd in line.
> 
> It had a Seventy/80 as well. Still that amp sounded sublime. I'm completely serious, when I say I wouldn't buy a guitar if it didn't sound good through that amp. Even though, I didn't own one.
> 
> I was so bummed when it sold. They got 2 in afterwards. One the power switch was wired backwards, so it was ON, when the amp was OFF. Had a strange chassis rattle as well. The other one, was DOA out of the box. I had given up, until that white one showed up. I was there for the unboxing, and I bought it the next day.
> 
> It didn't sound anything like that old store one. Now, I know part of it was the bias. I wish I'd have checked sooner. I might not have even thought about trading the amp. It sounded pretty good, when I took it into trade. But, at that point... with the original Seventy/80 in the DSL40C and the v-type in the CR... I was really comparing two brand new amps, with brand new speakers.
> 
> The Seventy/80 once broken in, and the amp is biased properly... can be a slick sounding speaker, especially if you've got that mojo in your fingers (which you do... I don't).
> 
> I'd really like to hear you play the new CR, and get your impressions of it. I think you'd really dig the Crunch channel.



Great break down on what happened. Love your insight. Not kidding. I'm really interested in the V type speaker.

I know why it sounds good with a Marshall circuit. I have one. But I'm not sure about it. I like high mids and bite when I'm chewing panties. I do not like too smooth.

Great info though and I'm listening! Thanks for your great input. Much appreciated!


----------



## LCW

Micky said:


> PEDL-91005 is listed in the manual. As far as I can tell that is not the one that ships with the JVM.



Oddly, Marshall website lists PEDL-91016.

https://www.marshall.com/marshall-amps/products/amps/dsl/dsl40


----------



## Bownse

GibsonKramer said:


> I do not like the China Vintage 30 at all. I've compared them side-by-side with the Marshall branded, and I think the China ones sound like ice picks. Its like a brittle sound, to my ears.



Have you ever travelled to Asia? Their bands (at least when I was there) have no bottom end. The bass amps are very thin while the guitar amps are brittle like you describe.


----------



## SteelLucky

For 99 bucks the V-Type is the bomb. I have one in my DSL40C. I listened to a V30, a Creamback M and H and choose the V-Type. It tames the brittleness of the amp but leaves the highs that make it a Marshall. RTF in v1,v2 and Ruby’s in V3,v4. I have a guitar loaded with EMG 57/66 set and am just amazed how good it sounds through this amp. That said I would love to try a CR version now.


----------



## Jam81

Hi Everyone, 

I have a question and hopefully someone can help me, I was playing my amp for a prolonged time, maybe 4-5 hours and then I heard a crackling noise and the volume of the amp was just super low and it wouldn't change no matter if I turned it up or switched channels. I turned the amp off and let it rest for about an hour or two and then it was back to normal. Any idea what could have happened? and if this is normal or if I have an underlying issue that needs to be addressed? (as a side note, this amp is less than a year old and it went unplayed for a good month before this past weekend).

Thanks.


----------



## Micky

This could be an indicator of a faulty tube.
Do you have spares you could try? Has it happened again?


----------



## Jam81

Micky said:


> This could be an indicator of a faulty tube.
> Do you have spares you could try? Has it happened again?



I don't have spares I am not that technical savvy to switch tubes and yes it is the first time this has happened. would it be a power tube or a preamp tube?


----------



## Micky

It could be either, hard to tell at this point.


----------



## Bownse

Jam81 said:


> I don't have spares I am not that technical savvy to switch tubes and yes it is the first time this has happened. would it be a power tube or a preamp tube?



It's best to handle all tubes with cotton or rubber gloves. The oil in your skin can cause hot spots on the glass and lead to early death for the tube.

Get 1 of each (I like Mullards for pre and TADs for power). Unplug the amp (overnight with the power switch on if you're cautious).

Remove the back and simply pull/replace 1 power tube and do a test. If it works, you found the problem.

If not, then swap the tube you pulled for the other power tube and test again. If it still isn't fixed, then put the original tubes back into the original sockets if you don't want to bias it. If it's never been biased now's as good a time as any to schedule a tech visit if you don't DIY. See the end of this post for the general trends on BIAS numbers.

If it's still not fixed after both power tubes have been swapped, then start that process (commonly called rolling) through pre-amp tubes. Swap, test, repeat.

If it's a power tube, then get a bias done (if you don't know how to yourself) to make the tubes last longer. The DSL40c(r?) tends to come from the factory with 40 to 42. Most people here report it is happier at 32 - 38. The higher the number the quicker it gets into distortion (less "headroom").

Always remove the power cord from the wall socket before each swap.


----------



## Jam81

Bownse said:


> It's best to handle all tubes with cotton or rubber gloves. The oil in your skin can cause hot spots on the glass and lead to early death for the tube.
> 
> Get 1 of each (I like Mullards for pre and TADs for power). Unplug the amp (overnight with the power switch on if you're cautious).
> 
> Remove the back and simply pull/replace 1 power tube and do a test. If it works, you found the problem.
> 
> If not, then swap the tube you pulled for the other power tube and test again. If it still isn't fixed, then put the original tubes back into the original sockets if you don't want to bias it. If it's never been biased now's as good a time as any to schedule a tech visit if you don't DIY. See the end of this post for the general trends on BIAS numbers.
> 
> If, after both power tubes have been swapped, then start that process (commonly called rolling) through pre-amp tubes. Swap, test, repeat.
> 
> If it's a power tube, then get a bias done (if you don't know how to yourself) to make the tubes last longer. The DSL40c(r?) tends to come from the factory with 40 to 42. Most people here report it is happier at 32 - 38. The higher the number the quicker it gets into distortion (less "headroom").
> 
> Always remove the power cord from the wall socket before each swap.



Thanks, should I wait to see if this happens again before changing the tubes? is there a chance it could be the speaker? (the amp is working fine again since letting it cool down for a couple of hours)


----------



## ken361

4 to 5 hrs is a lot most, i would play 1 to 2 hrs top


----------



## ricky711

SteelLucky said:


> For 99 bucks the V-Type is the bomb. I have one in my DSL40C. I listened to a V30, a Creamback M and H and choose the V-Type. It tames the brittleness of the amp but leaves the highs that make it a Marshall. RTF in v1,v2 and Ruby’s in V3,v4. I have a guitar loaded with EMG 57/66 set and am just amazed how good it sounds through this amp. That said I would love to try a CR version now.


The V-Type works very well with this amp. Notes and chords have more body.


----------



## ricky711

I've been using an Avatar Fane M65 for the past month and I have to say I am really liking it. Killer crunch and no piercing high end. My new favorite!


----------



## Bownse

Jam81 said:


> Thanks, should I wait to see if this happens again before changing the tubes? is there a chance it could be the speaker? (the amp is working fine again since letting it cool down for a couple of hours)




Tube longevity is all about heat and vibration. Something that had internals that are marginal could separate at temp and shrink back into contact when cooled.


----------



## Carlo

Hi guys, been a while now. I did the head conversion from my 40c. (did it myself, will try to post a picture) So there is the empty cab with the Creamback and i wonder if it makes sence to convert it into a 2x12 box. Its (just) large enough to take two 12" speakers diagonally. I have a V30 laying around, would it be a good pair with whe Creamback? Other question, would it be be better to leave the back open because its rather small for a closed back? Your opinions are appreciated..thanks in advance
Carlo


----------



## Len

Carlo said:


> Hi guys, been a while now. I did the head conversion from my 40c. (did it myself, will try to post a picture) So there is the empty cab with the Creamback and i wonder if it makes sence to convert it into a 2x12 box. Its (just) large enough to take two 12" speakers diagonally. I have a V30 laying around, would it be a good pair with whe Creamback? Other question, would it be be better to leave the back open because its rather small for a closed back? Your opinions are appreciated..thanks in advance
> Carlo


You can fit 2x12 in an empty DSL40C cab? I wouldn’t close it since the small volume would make it sound boxy probably. I’d keep the cab as-is in case you want to make the head back into a combo for one reason or another.


----------



## Carlo

2x12 would fit, i have to build a new speakerboard and keep the old one in case i want to use the original combo again. I also think an open back is better. Thanks.


----------



## Guitar Rod

Stumbled upon this vid on YouTube. A guy has upgraded a DSL40C with spring reverb. Never seen this mentioned before. Anyone here tried something like this? Would be a cool upgrade.


----------



## Bownse

I like it!


----------



## BanditPanda

100% improvement.


----------



## BanditPanda

Surfing this morning and came across this little Anderton's vid which features the DSL40C, which they are getting some pretty good sounds out of.
Never heard of The Darkness before.
Then I noticed one of the guitars which I thought was pretty nice too !


----------



## ecoast

finallly

got thru this mongo thread!
what'd I win?

oh yeah, a 40c...


damn gas

BUT- at least it's my first marshal; $489 closeout sam ash = no complaints


----------



## ken361

Mr humbucker guy here I'm really digging the fender Telecaster Affinity! Creamback on the crunch and red . Single coils has lot of tone. Solar would dig it


----------



## Bruno60

Hi People,

I just plugged my dsl40, on a 2 × 12, equipped with a WGS Reaper and a Green Beret .... that's the sound I was looking for a long time! What a pleasure, it's a day to mark in the calendar for me. I can't stop rocking


----------



## R.Kandy

Sounds like my Twin Reverb, very cool.


----------



## ken361

Fryette SAS boosting the clean channel

 red 1 and crunch bedroom levels


----------



## boondocksaint87

Hi all. I'm a noob and in need of some help. I'm new to tube amps, and trying to go through this enormous thread was a bit overwhelming. 

I recently bought a second hand Marshall DSL40C on ebay. Perfect condition, modded with a Vintage 30 speaker. 

Log story short, the tone seemed a bit off from what I remember playing in the shops. I figured it could be one of the tubes. After investigating, It seems that the one EL34 tube has blown. I can see the rest (another EL34 tube, and 4 smaller ones) powering on, but not this one. 

From this thread, it seems that replacing these could be a potential issue, as it delves into stuff I know very little about. Being in Australia, labour and transport is expensive, so if possible, I would like to do this myself. Ideally, I would just take it to a tech, but I'm a bit in the middle of nowhere.

Anyone that could help a guy out?
Cheers!


----------



## Micky

First, get some new tubes...
Then all you need to do is set the bias.
It is an internal adjustment you can set with a multimeter.


----------



## Bownse

Biasing is simple but has some risks. There are videos on line on how to do it with the DSL40C. If you aren't confident with your ability to do it (with the often-repeated cautions about playing around 400-500volts of 'tricity) then seek out a reputable amp tech.


----------



## KraftyBob

PRS 1x12 Speaker Cab

Times are changing - had to go to page 4 to find this thread...

I've been looking on and off for a 1x12 extension cab for my DSL40C w/Creamback and saw that PRS is coming out with two cabs - the Stealth loaded with a Celestion G12T-75 for around $350 and the Tremonti with a V30 for $390. They are 16 ohm, closed back, Birch ply, 24" W x 10.5" D x 18" H - practically made for the DSL40 (well, if it was a 1/2" wider). These look like great options - not a cheap cab with a low end speaker, but it's not a $600 Dirty Shirley cab either.

I've never been a huge fan of the V30 but I've not heard it paired with the Creamback. I'm wondering if any DSL40 w/Creamback owners on this thread have a 1x12 extension cab with either of these speakers and, if so, what do you like/don't like?


----------



## ken361

peavey has a cheap but good 212 with greenback cab out


----------



## KraftyBob

I saw that too - and I like Greenbacks. Looks good for the price, but I only want a 1x12 so I can use the 1x12 Creamback in the amp, then have the ability for a 2x12 setup when needed.


----------



## nevermind

KraftyBob said:


> I saw that too - and I like Greenbacks. Looks good for the price, but I only want a 1x12 so I can use the 1x12 Creamback in the amp, then have the ability for a 2x12 setup when needed.


 
I have two of the 1x12 Peavy Greenback cabs. I have a Texas Heat in the 40c and run the greenback in the big 1x12 cab below it. 

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/6505PlusM112--peavey-112-6-25-watt-1x12-inch-cabinet

They sound good to my ears!


----------



## KraftyBob

nevermind said:


> I have two of the 1x12 Peavy Greenback cabs. I have a Texas Heat in the 40c and run the greenback in the big 1x12 cab below it.
> 
> https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/6505PlusM112--peavey-112-6-25-watt-1x12-inch-cabinet
> 
> They sound good to my ears!



Running the Greenback essentially gives you a total 50 watt load. No issues with the 40w DSL I’m guessing then?


----------



## KraftyBob

I didn't see the 3rd PRS 1x12 - an open back cab w/V-Type for $319. Same dimensions as the other two. This one has the black & tan grill cloth which looks pretty sweet and might be a nice compliment to the black & gold Marshall (if I can find a pic somewhere).

I was also looking at the speaker specs and the V30 is 100dB so I'd be concerned how loud it sounded compared to the M65 at 97dB. Where as the G12T-75 is 97dB and the V-type is 98dB - much closer to my speaker. I think that's where I'll focus for now. As I said before I've never been a fan of the V30 so I'm not too concerned about ruling it out early on.


----------



## Bruno60

What do you think of 2 G10 Greenback or 2 G10N-40 in a cab?
They have 95db, which would push a little more amp.
Someone already used these speakers on a Marshall (dsl40) ?
I want to convert the combo to 2x10 cab, and make an amp head.


----------



## KraftyBob

Not really interest in a 2x10 cab for a few reasons. 2x10 guitar cabs are not all the common compared to a 1x12 so choices are limited. Also, I have a Vox AD120VT 2x12 and when I paired that up with a 4x12 cab I did not like the balance between the two. Half the wattage was going to 2x12's and the other half through 4x12's so it sounded off - almost like the 2x12 drowned out the 4x12. With that amp when you use the external jacks the internal speakers stay active so I installed switching jacks and plugged the 4x12 into those so it would bypass the internal cab.

Bottom line is I want a 1x12 extension cab that matches the DSL40 dimensions as close as possible with a speaker that will compliment the M65 Creamback. I was thinking of building my own cab when I came across the PRS 1x12's and they come with some really good speaker choices.

I think I've narrowed down my choices and will just have to go play them when they're out. Thanks for the feedback.


----------



## Carlo

Bruno60 said:


> What do you think of 2 G10 Greenback or 2 G10N-40 in a cab?
> They have 95db, which would push a little more amp.
> Someone already used these speakers on a Marshall (dsl40) ?
> I want to convert the combo to 2x10 cab, and make an amp head.



I just converted my DSL 40c into a head and a 2x12 cab. Both Creambacks just fit diagonally,
sounds awesome.


----------



## KraftyBob

That's an interesting thought. Do you have any pics and did you do it yourself or have it done? What's the weight of the head now and how much does the 2x12 weigh? I have to admit that while lugging this combo around isn't ideal so splitting into two lighter pieces sounds appealing.


----------



## Bruno60

Carlo said:


> I just converted my DSL 40c into a head and a 2x12 cab. Both Creambacks just fit diagonally,
> sounds awesome.


Cool ! M65 or H75 Creamback ? 
Any pictures ? Thx


----------



## nevermind

KraftyBob said:


> Running the Greenback essentially gives you a total 50 watt load. No issues with the 40w DSL I’m guessing then?



Correctamundo...


----------



## Carlo

i did the conversion myself, Creambacks are M-65's, tried earlier to post pictures, they were to large. What is the maximum size to upload pictures? 
The reason for the conversion was the weight of the combo, i am 67 with back-problems and play at some 8 Gigs a year. I will weigh both head and cab, give me a little time. It is a lot easier for me to carry the amp around


----------



## Carlo

Head weighs 11kg and the cab 14 kg


----------



## KraftyBob

Thank you for checking the weight.

For those in the US that's 24 lbs and 31 lbs, respectively. Much better than 50.5lbs/20.3kg combo.

Now you have me possibly re-thinking this, Carlo!


----------



## Carlo

here some pics


----------



## KraftyBob

Very cool! Impressive - nice work!


----------



## Bruno60

Carlo said:


> View attachment 47642
> here some pics
> View attachment 47643


That's exactly what I have in mind !!


----------



## KraftyBob

Where did you get the materials from (grill cloth, Screen on back of head, Marshall logo, etc.)?


----------



## Carlo

Tube Amp Doctor here in Germany, all of it


----------



## Bownse

KraftyBob said:


> That's an interesting thought. Do you have any pics and did you do it yourself or have it done? What's the weight of the head now and how much does the 2x12 weigh? I have to admit that while lugging this combo around isn't ideal so splitting into two lighter pieces sounds appealing.




http://www.fjr-tips.org/misc/amp/DSL40C_Mod/A_Project.html


----------



## nevermind

Carlo said:


> Tube Amp Doctor here in Germany, all of it



SWEEEET work Carlo!!!! You win the internet yesterday...


----------



## Carlo

Btw, the amp can be converted back into the original Combo, no parts have been altered. This was important for me, in case i wish to sell it at some point.


----------



## AlanH

Do you have more details Carlo? Perhaps lists of materials and parts and maybe photos throughout the process if you took them...

I can't find a head cabinet that looks like yours here...
http://www.tubeampdoctor.com/en/shop_Plexi_Style_Plexi_Style_Head_Cabinets/

They look kind of expensive though...


----------



## Carlo

There is no finished head cabinet for sale, i build it myself from scratch. Sorry, no pictures from the build. I could make a materials list if someone is interested, let me know. Pricewise I think i have spend about 100.-€, most expencive was the Marshall-logo if i recall right.


----------



## ken361

I was reading on TGP about amp on the floor or on a stand of some kind, I tried it on a box full of books and thought it sounded bad on the red 1. So I re EQ'd it to this with the creamback at gain at 6 or so trb 6 mids at 4 bass res 4 res 5 not too bad cutting the mids took some high off. Back on the floor with a finished basemen/carpet has more lows compared to my house this was tested at my girls condo. On the floor pretty fat but dynamic and and sounds good 15 feet a way say

Before mids at 7 bass 3 res 3 treb 6 or so pres 6


----------



## Micky

Mistake #1 - TGP...


----------



## Bownse

Top Gear Party (forum)?


----------



## ken361

The gearpage


----------



## KraftyBob

Bownse said:


> http://www.fjr-tips.org/misc/amp/DSL40C_Mod/A_Project.html


Carlo and Bownse - both of you did great work with your head/cab setup. I need to really think about this before I buy a 1x12 extension cab. Thanks for the replies and images.


----------



## KraftyBob

AlanH said:


> Do you have more details Carlo? Perhaps lists of materials and parts and maybe photos throughout the process if you took them...
> 
> I can't find a head cabinet that looks like yours here...
> http://www.tubeampdoctor.com/en/shop_Plexi_Style_Plexi_Style_Head_Cabinets/
> 
> They look kind of expensive though...



AlanH - check these out:
http://stores.ebay.com/Pine-guitar-speaker-cabinet-builder

$150 USD for a DSL40C Head and you can get a 2x12 for under $200. Just need to add the Tolex, corners, etc.


----------



## LCW

AlanH said:


> Do you have more details Carlo? Perhaps lists of materials and parts and maybe photos throughout the process if you took them...
> 
> I can't find a head cabinet that looks like yours here...
> http://www.tubeampdoctor.com/en/shop_Plexi_Style_Plexi_Style_Head_Cabinets/
> 
> They look kind of expensive though...





KraftyBob said:


> AlanH - check these out:
> http://stores.ebay.com/Pine-guitar-speaker-cabinet-builder
> 
> $150 USD for a DSL40C Head and you can get a 2x12 for under $200. Just need to add the Tolex, corners, etc.




Have you seen this one from Stagecraft?

https://stagecraftgear.com/product/dsl-rack-head/


----------



## Jam81

Hi Guys,

I am thinking about buying the torpedo captor for silent recording at home and attenuation, which one would be best for the DLS40C the 4, 8 or 16 OHM version?

Thanks!


----------



## Micky

8 or 16-ohm version, the DSL40c has no 4-ohm output.


----------



## SlapHand

Hi all!
I'm new to the forum but I've been lurking this thread for some time. I started reading on page 1 and I am at page 60 by now. Its almost like a novel following how people tweak their "machine" to bring out the best of it. 
Very interesting and its amazing how much knowledge you guys possess and share. So many to thank for your qualified input but a special thanks to Micky for starting this thread!

I bought a new DSL40c a year ago and played it for only 4-5 hours before one of the PowerTubes died. I had a JJEL34 from another tube swap on my JMP 2204 lying in a drawer and put it in, biased both tubes to around 38mA and all turned out fine. I can't say i noticed any difference in sound, but I guess any colour from the PT will only occur when you really crank the amp?

My question is, do I have to buy matched pairs of PT´s for this amp since it allows me to bias the tubes individually?

Thank you for any answers!


----------



## ken361

set it to 32 and report back


----------



## ken361

dont have to be matched but it might be easier to bias more quickly


----------



## BanditPanda

Power tubes are electrically matched so each tube will have the same amount of “idle” plate current and amplification characteristics when used in an amplifier. This is done so the tubes can work together in your amp giving you optimal sound quality and tube longevity. Matched tubes also receive extra quality checks to reduce the possibility of getting a faulty power tube that may have slipped by the manufacturer
It puts you in control of your tone. Matching the plate current and transconductance allows you to set the bias with maximum precision for that optimal sweet spot where the tubes will sound their best and won't burn out early.

https://www.apexmatching.com/

BP


----------



## Jam81

ken361 said:


> set it to 32 and report back


I had mine set from Sweetwater to 47. I set them at 35 and I wasnt too happy with it. It didn't have that Marshall break-up sound. I set them at 39 and I like the sounds I get specially from L1. I haven't tried 32 but if I didn't like 35 I probably won't like it.


----------



## SlapHand

Thx to Ken and Bandit!

I’ll spend those extra bucks on a matched pair.

SlapHand


----------



## Micky

Matched pairs are nice, but not necessary in an amp with separate bias controls for individual tubes.
It is easy to set the idle current of each when they are not exactly equal...


----------



## ken361

Jam81 said:


> I had mine set from Sweetwater to 47. I set them at 35 and I wasnt too happy with it. It didn't have that Marshall break-up sound. I set them at 39 and I like the sounds I get specially from L1. I haven't tried 32 but if I didn't like 35 I probably won't like it.


I found it more fizzy and bright on the red lot of people like it cooler on FB reported


----------



## SlapHand

Thx Micky!
I was suspecting that but not sure.

I settle with ‘more convenient, but not a necessity’


----------



## Trident

Sweetwater has lowered the price of the old model DSL40c to $399...
Dayumm


----------



## Jefferson Agostino

Hey Guys, someone here ever had problems with frontpanel overheating on DSL40C?
My amp have this issue and it was after the power tubes start to show stranger behavior (the sound and loudness was altered and there was a crackle sound issue).
I chanched then, but this overheating started to happen and the amp is not the same. Can someone help me?
I think, can I change the main board on the amp? Can I find it? Is it too expensive?


----------



## ken361

crackle could be the power tubes I had that on the stock set how old are they? dirty preamp tubes possible too. See if the tubes are red plating


----------



## middy

I just got mine today, and I think it’s perfect like it is! But then again, my guitar has a tone knob on it. LOL
But seriously, that Marshall spank and chug is amazing. Don’t neuter it!


----------



## Jefferson Agostino

ken361 said:


> crackle could be the power tubes I had that on the stock set how old are they? dirty preamp tubes possible too. See if the tubes are red plating


You mean, see if the preamp tubes are redplating?


----------



## ken361

power tubes, you will see a red glow down the tube not the orange on top


----------



## ken361

threw the ET 65 back in im liking it need to try loud again.


 cream a little warmer


----------



## johnnytuinals

I know that the Sweetwater Marshall dsl40c is at $399.
Amazon has them for sale but out of stock but getting more in soon has them also at $399.
I know Sweetwater is Old Stock but what about Amazons?.....JT
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009AF7TBY/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1


----------



## johnnytuinals

Are all the Parts (Tubes,circuits,Speakers ect}are made in England or Vietnam.JT


----------



## Micky

johnnytuinals said:


> Are all the Parts (Tubes,circuits,Speakers ect}are made in England or Vietnam.JT


Marshall parts come from all over. Even the Made in England amps have parts sourced overseas and in asia.


----------



## johnnytuinals

Sounds like buying a Lazyboy Sofa.
Everything is made in China and put together in America....JT


----------



## middy

I don’t know much about electronics, but couldn’t one put an alligator clip across both legs of C19 and kind of bypass it that way? Or would that only partially bypass it, perhaps lower the value?


----------



## Armycopter

middy said:


> I don’t know much about electronics, but couldn’t one put an alligator clip across both legs of C19 and kind of bypass it that way? Or would that only partially bypass it, perhaps lower the value?


I could be wrong but I think that the mod creates an “open” across the two points. An Alligator clip would short it. I’m no expert either though!


----------



## middy

Armycopter said:


> I could be wrong but I think that the mod creates an “open” across the two points. An Alligator clip would short it. I’m no expert either though!


Oh yeah, you’re right... I told you I don’t know much lol


----------



## Gabriel Chiararia

johnnytuinals said:


> I know that the Sweetwater Marshall dsl40c is at $399.
> Amazon has them for sale but out of stock but getting more in soon has them also at $399.
> I know Sweetwater is Old Stock but what about Amazons?.....JT



What's the problem of being Old Stock? I ordered a demo one from Sweetwater for $359. My idea was that the speaker on a demo one would have been already broken in.
It's only scheduled to be shipped on June 2nd. So I could cancelled and get you from Amazon for $383 (including tax and 10% discount with a Amazon Prime Card). Should I get one from Amazon?


----------



## Micky

No problem at all.
If you already have one on the way don't bother getting another one. They are all the same.


----------



## middy

Is there a mod to make the reverb footswitch control the effects loop instead?


----------



## Len

middy said:


> Is there a mod to make the reverb footswitch control the effects loop instead?


Since the loop is already controlled via a panel switch I’m sure you could just buy a relay switch board (like from Granger or Weber) and wire it in place of that switch.


----------



## Speegman

Well after a long and crazy amp journey I’m back with a new DSL40C - clearance price from Sweetwater. Bought a used MXR 10 band EQ and put it in the effects loop - now I have bedroom level great sounding tone. Great to be back in the Marshall family!


----------



## ken361

Rocking the Telecaster loud again,seems to get louder after 30 minutes. Both channels rocked! The clarity is really nice with single coils! And I love humbuckers.


----------



## Carlo

Well, there you have it, my first faillure. After hitting the standby switch, the amp made a huge cracking noise which almost gave me a heartattack. Cracking appeared even with no guitar connected and all volume knobs off. So i started swapping tubes, beginning on the preamp side and eventually ending with a bad Powertube. I waspretty annoyed, because all the Tubes were pretty much new, about 20 hours of playing. Luckily it happened at home and not during a Gig. Still, this got me thinking how stupid i have been ( or a lot of faith in god..) playing at all those Gigs without a spare amp in my luggage. So i started looking for a new amp and went for the new DSL20hr. Oh man, that is a badass little amp....i am blowing away with it. The Ultra gain channel is amazing agressive with tons of gain reserves and what strikes me is how easy it is to dial this one in. For me it is a perfect addition to my gear, since we play often in pubs with max. of 60 people. The Dsl40 is sometimes to loud in this small places. Still i love the Dsl40, wouldnt miss it. The reverb on the Dsl20 is much better in my opnion and presence and resonance react better. Some users say that the shared EQ doesnt work good for both channels, same problem as with the Dsl40. Cant comment on that, almost never use the classic gain channel. Thought i share my findings with you.


----------



## Bownse

Only 20 hours? The obvious questions are "Biased?" and "how hot?"


----------



## ken361

I had a power tube go after 3 days on another amp it happens


----------



## Carlo

Biased yes, 37mV


----------



## Rick Lee

I've had power tubes go in the first few minutes out of the box. And the last one that went was a $60 Winged C that took out the socket with it. And that was the second tube in that matched quad to go in less than a year. Never spending money for those again.


----------



## BanditPanda

ok DSL40C owners. I know I will garner a lot of disdain for making this request and not only because there are a lot of variables involved. Speaker & cab type at this point are not of interest. Neither are pedals or pick up specs.
If, in your opinion you are able to get your DSL40C to sound like a " plexi " or a close proximity thereof would you mind telling me what channels / settings on the amp you are using?
With Humbucker & Single coils.
Thanks for your help.
BP


----------



## Clifdawg

BanditPanda said:


> If, in your opinion you are able to get your DSL40C to sound like a " plexi " or a close proximity thereof would you mind telling me what channels / settings on the amp you are using?



I'm not the foremost expert in all things Plexi, as the DSL40C is my first and only Marshall, but I can say for certain that it nails that 70's classic rock sound I've heard Plexis make on countless hits.

My settings:
Classic Gain - Crunch
Pentode mode
Gain: 10
Volume: 4 or higher
Treble: 4
Middle: 10
Bass: 7
Presence: 3
Resonance: 7

This is with the stock Seventy 80 speaker and tubes, and playing with a Gibson SG with 495R and 495T hot Firebird-style mini-hums. Again, not sure if this is "Plexi," per se, but it sounds positively glorious at these settings. I'm not as huge a fan of these settings when I plug single coils in, but that's possibly more the fact that I'm using a bone-stock Squier Affinity Strat (not mine, babysitting for a friend who's moving) than anything wrong with the tone of the amp.


----------



## BanditPanda

Well noted and appreciated. Thanks Cliff. Tone Shift in / out ? Humbuckers or Single coils ?
BP


----------



## Clifdawg

BanditPanda said:


> Well noted and appreciated. Thanks Cliff. Tone Shift in / out ? Humbuckers or Single coils ?
> BP



Tone shift out; not a huge fan of just how severely it scoops the mids, but it might be useful for recording. I'm using humbuckers, but they're mini-humbuckers, and they're very hot and use Alnico 2 blade magnets instead of a single bar and pole pieces. They're a tad brighter than regular humbuckers, so you may want just a little more presence or treble if you're using PAF-style humbuckers.


----------



## Bownse

ken361 said:


> I had a power tube go after 3 days on another amp it happens



True but when I get an early infant death tube, I always double check things.


----------



## ken361

was years ago on a import bogner amp just took it back an got another


----------



## jeffb

Nah. It won't do anywhere close to a plexi. MV amps will never sound like NMV Marshalls. But with proper cab and tubes, you can get green crunch kinda sorta close to an old JMP 2204.

An old JAN/GE 5751 in the PI helps alot.


----------



## Rick Lee

Clifdawg said:


> I'm not the foremost expert in all things Plexi, as the DSL40C is my first and only Marshall, but I can say for certain that it nails that 70's classic rock sound I've heard Plexis make on countless hits.
> 
> My settings:
> Classic Gain - Crunch
> Pentode mode
> Gain: 10
> Volume: 4 or higher
> Treble: 4
> Middle: 10
> Bass: 7
> Presence: 3
> Resonance: 7
> 
> This is with the stock Seventy 80 speaker and tubes, and playing with a Gibson SG with 495R and 495T hot Firebird-style mini-hums. Again, not sure if this is "Plexi," per se, but it sounds positively glorious at these settings. I'm not as huge a fan of these settings when I plug single coils in, but that's possibly more the fact that I'm using a bone-stock Squier Affinity Strat (not mine, babysitting for a friend who's moving) than anything wrong with the tone of the amp.



I tried these settings today on both green and red and it sounds great. I have it biased to 33 mA, threw a Chinese 12AX7 in V1, clipped C15, 19 and 22, swapped in a G12T-75 and was using an EBMM EVH. Love it.


----------



## ken361

Would you prefer origin or dsl for plexi type of tone?

Hide replies 





Johan Segeborn31 minutes ago
Hi, I haven’t AB tested them but my gut feeling is DSL





Johan Segeborn28 minutes ago
I loved the DSL when I played it here on the channel


----------



## ken361

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MT15H--prs-mark-tremonti-mt15-15-7-watt-tube-head
dual 6l6 15 watter pretty cool


----------



## Len

BanditPanda said:


> ok DSL40C owners. I know I will garner a lot of disdain for making this request and not only because there are a lot of variables involved. Speaker & cab type at this point are not of interest. Neither are pedals or pick up specs.
> If, in your opinion you are able to get your DSL40C to sound like a " plexi " or a close proximity thereof would you mind telling me what channels / settings on the amp you are using?
> With Humbucker & Single coils.
> Thanks for your help.
> BP


Green channel, gain lower (maybe 9 o’clock), presence high, tones st noon. Good luck (a DSL, JCM or JVM really won’t sound like a Plexi ever IMHO).


----------



## BanditPanda

Thanks Len. Well noted. Green clean or crunch?
I can imagine that you are right about that. Just curious as to how close we can get.
BP


----------



## Len

BanditPanda said:


> Thanks Len. Well noted. Green clean or crunch?
> I can imagine that you are right about that. Just curious as to how close we can get.
> BP


Crunch if you are going for a Plexi dimed distortion.


----------



## Bill Fetter

DirtySteve said:


> Micky the handles look great! You might be interested to know that the more I play mine the better it sounds and I'm going to have a hard time letting it go. I know I know, but damn!...it does sound good and besides, I'm used to eating my words by now.  we'll see. If I do keep it I'm going to try some of these mods.
> 
> Here are some shots inside the 40c cab if anyone's interested...


With those two extra Knockouts it would appear that the chassis was designed for an 80 watt version of the DSL as well... right 9


Micky said:


> Here are some gut shots of my DSL40c.
> Again, if anyone has any requests for specific photos let me know.
> Here is a shot of the bias trimpots:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a shot of the bias test connector.
> Remember, when checking/setting the bias, the left trimpot adjusts the right test point...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I finally got the bias evened out at 38.xx and all seems very stable:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will post more as time permits...


Thanks for all the great info!

I blew up both of the photos of the circuit board and I could not see a identifiers for C33 cap on the circuit board ... what am I missing?


----------



## Bill Fetter

Sheartab said:


> FYI. I have a Zack Wylde wah pedal and its far better running into the amp than in the loop. I tried the loop for some experimentation and thought it was horrid. Very muffled.



I've done a fair amount of experimentation with the effects loop as well.

I wouldn't run a distortion or a wah-wah pedal through the loop... Those types of effects work great in front of the amp ... that is in front of the preamp.

The effects loop works great with delay, reverb and modulation. I tried a number of these types of devices and they all work terrific ... clean as a whistle!!!


----------



## Bill Fetter

Bill Fetter said:


> With those two extra Knockouts it would appear that the chassis was designed for an 80 watt version of the DSL as well... right 9
> 
> Thanks for all the great info!
> 
> I blew up both of the photos of the circuit board and I could not see a identifiers for C33 cap on the circuit board ... what am I missing?


My bad the c-19 cap


----------



## Micky

Bill Fetter said:


> My bad the c-19 cap


C19 cap is not shown in those 2 photos.
It is clearly labeled on the board , near the front panel control pots.


----------



## Bill Fetter

Let me begin by saying that I really dig this forum and all the terrific information. I love all things Marshall. In fact, my mothers maiden name is Marshall! Hi uncle Jim! It's your long, lost cousin Billy!!

I owned a JCM2000, DSL401 and really did not use it that much as it was way too loud for my home. Also, I prefer the sound of the EL34 over the EL84... it sounds "bigger and bader" to me.

At the moment. I find it difficult to fault the DSL40c. I've played bass for about 40 years. I stopped playing the bass and I've been at the guitar for about 17 years now. I'm sure there are many players on this forum that have a great deal more experience with live sound than I. Most of the 17 years was spent ITB composing and experimenting with DAWs because I had my young family living with me.

After testing a variety of common pedals on both channels of my new Marshall DSL40c for about a week now, I've made the following conclusions:

The series FX loop works great on multi, reverb/delay and modulation FX type pedals. It would be nice if the loop had a volume control although it really does not make a big difference... once you've added two or more pedals, you may want to control the mix of each independently.

The only pedals I would run in front of the amp would be distortion and wah and the order here is ready for experimentation... though typically, wah first.

I found that on both lead channels, it was difficult to improve or enhance the raw sound of the Marshall DSL40c using a boost, OD or distortion, however, they sounded great on the clean channel. I have been completely blown away by the sound of the Lead channel!! I own a slew of Strats but seems clear that now I'm jonesing for a Paul!!

My formal training as a recording engineer prevents me from overlooking experimentation of any sort in these areas.

So atm, here is where I'm at:
Clean channel - anything
Crunch channel - modulation in the loop - wah (distortion/OD/boost) in front of the amp.
Lead 1 and 2 - (modulation in the series FX loop) wah in front of the amp. No distortion/OD/boost

As I am relatively new to the live operation of a real (not virtual) in a real room, I welcome your feedback and criticism.


----------



## Clifdawg

Bill Fetter said:


> So atm, here is where I'm at:
> Clean channel - anything
> Crunch channel - modulation in the loop - wah (distortion/OD/boost) in front of the amp.
> Lead 1 and 2 - (modulation in the series FX loop) wah in front of the amp. No distortion/OD/boost



For really tight metal rhythms, I like running OD2 at a gain of 2, and running a Fulltone OCD at around 3 o'clock on the volume, gain all the way down, and the tone around 3 o'clock. I dime the mids and punch in the "tone shift," which gives it a nice scooped sound without sacrificing so broad a range of frequencies as to sound thin or indistinct. From there, it's all fun and drop-D shenanigans.


----------



## Flyingv4me

jeffb said:


> Nah. It won't do anywhere close to a plexi. MV amps will never sound like NMV Marshalls. But with proper cab and tubes, you can get green crunch kinda sorta close to an old JMP 2204.
> 
> An old JAN/GE 5751 in the PI helps alot.



It all depends on the master volume. If you are talking about the factory master volumes by Marshall....all of those pretty much suck. If you are talking a dual gang pot Post Phase Inverter Tube Master volume your results are totally different. LOTS of JMP's were converted to a PPIV Master Volume and sound incredible without losing ANY of the sound of the JMP.


----------



## Bill Fetter

Clifdawg said:


> For really tight metal rhythms, I like running OD2 at a gain of 2, and running a Fulltone OCD at around 3 o'clock on the volume, gain all the way down, and the tone around 3 o'clock. I dime the mids and punch in the "tone shift," which gives it a nice scooped sound without sacrificing so broad a range of frequencies as to sound thin or indistinct. From there, it's all fun and drop-D shenanigans.



I'll give that tone recipe a shot. I don't have an OCD, so perhaps an MXR Super Badass Variac at the gain at 2 and 3 o'clock on the volume.


----------



## Bill Fetter

Guitar Rod said:


> Stumbled upon this vid on YouTube. A guy has upgraded a DSL40C with spring reverb. Never seen this mentioned before. Anyone here tried something like this? Would be a cool upgrade.




Nice!


----------



## Bownse

If looking at distortion pedals, someone here turned me on to the SAS and I've been really happy with it.


----------



## jeffb

Flyingv4me said:


> It all depends on the master volume. If you are talking about the factory master volumes by Marshall....all of those pretty much suck. If you are talking a dual gang pot Post Phase Inverter Tube Master volume your results are totally different. LOTS of JMP's were converted to a PPIV Master Volume and sound incredible without losing ANY of the sound of the JMP.



I was specifically talking about comparing stock MVs to a stock NMV amp...e.g.2204 to a 1987. 

Personally I think the PI,speakers and VOLUME @re more key to "the plexi sound" in most marshall amps than the circuit. People are hearing jacked up low watt speakers and a power section screaming for mercy.


----------



## Bill Fetter

I think I'll get a pair of these for my dsl40c


EndGame00 said:


> Though I have the DSL15C and somewhat becoming disappointed in the beginning with the "ultra gain" channel.... Boy, I was wrong! It took some major EQ-ing and keep it under 7.5 watts, I was finding the sweet spots compare to the full power setting of the amp.... I'm keeping it stock.
> 
> Tone-wise, I was able to find close to Rudolf Schenker's tone on Savage Amusement album.. even at lower volume, it is still there... Or Death Angel's "Act III" tone.
> 
> For this, I shall never question the mythos of Jim Marshall as long as I live.



I have a Celestion G12 in my Fender Mustang III and I love the way it handles bass.

I've noticed that the stock speaker on my DSL40C will double and choke at certain settings with pedals. Sounds like when you push your chin tight against your chest and speak.

I could be doing something stupid, but I've never had that happen with the G12-75 on the Mustang III vers. 2.2

BTW - sorry for the position of my posts. I was using my cell phone... I think I have it sorted now.


----------



## Bill Fetter

Excellent demo. Thanks for preparing and sharing with us!!


----------



## Bill Fetter

Micky said:


> To remove the C19 cap makes all the difference in the world!
> The OD2 mode on the 2nd channel was pretty much unusable for me as it came from the factory. It may be fine for some as it is stock, but I can only imagine extreme metal being played on hi-gain pointy guitars by angry young punks. (no disrespect) Lots of gain is putting it mildly...
> 
> It is a pretty easy mod, I did it without removing the main PC board. Here is a photo:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I basically just touched a lo-powered soldering pencil (33 watts) to one leg and pried up the cap. It will be easy to return it to stock if needed. Here is another photo:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The OD2 mode on the Ultra Gain channel is now my go-to mode for a boost even though I don't play lead. It has a ballsy feel to it now rather than a fizzy buzz.



Not meant to offend but I just bring down the treble a tad and everything seems to shape up ok. That way my two-year Sweetwater coverage is still intact and I have the extra high end if I want to remove the wallpaper in the dining room!


----------



## Bill Fetter

nightrain said:


> yeah, unfortunately there's no where to test these amps out where I live. but based on clips Ive heard, i like the dsl the best



I just pulled the trigger on the DSL40C and I love it. I might change the speaker out to a GT12/75 one day but no problem with the 12" stock Celestion. I bought a JCM2000, DLS40 years ago and didn't use it much because I could not get the sound I wanted at lower levels. I love the sound of the EL34s over the EL84s anyway.

After about two weeks of testing, I'm amazed at how easy it was to tame this animal to produce some really wild sounds.


----------



## Micky

Bill Fetter said:


> Not meant to offend but I just bring down the treble a tad and everything seems to shape up ok. That way my two-year Sweetwater coverage is still intact and I have the extra high end if I want to remove the wallpaper in the dining room!


There are a lot of people (members) here that love the stock speaker. Many also choose not to mod the amp at all, as it meets their needs just fine. I am so glad you finally found an amp you can fall in love with. I did when they first came out and I still love mine.


----------



## Bill Fetter

Micky said:


> There are a lot of people (members) here that love the stock speaker. Many also choose not to mod the amp at all, as it meets their needs just fine. I am so glad you finally found an amp you can fall in love with. I did when they first came out and I still love mine.



Thanks for your understanding. I worked for Heathkit/Veritechnology for 11 years in the 70s (if you're old enough to remember them). In those days we would mod everything because the bulk of circuits used discrete components. I had a bud that played string bass for the Baltimore Symphony Orchestra and he was modifying a pair of Quads!! ... it was nuts!


----------



## Rick Lee

I have a Seismic 2x12 I've used at band practice and kept at the practice space for years. It has a pair of G12T-75s and has tons of hours of band volume playing through it. So I took one of those speakers and put it in my DSL40C and then that new 70/80 speaker into the 2x12 cab. That way, once my band stuff ramps up again, that new speaker will be get broken in well and quickly. After that I may throw it back into the DSL40C and see how it sounds. For now I love the way the 75 sounds in there and have no use for the 2x12, so I don't care what's in it.


----------



## Bill Fetter

Right - I have that Celestion speaker in my Fender Mustang III vers 2.2 and it has a really sweet feel.


----------



## Dmann

Micky said:


> There are a lot of people (members) here that love the stock speaker. Many also choose not to mod the amp at all, as it meets their needs just fine. I am so glad you finally found an amp you can fall in love with. I did when they first came out and I still love mine.


I still never understood buying an amp to instantly change the speaker, change the tubes, clip some components, then use pedals up front. Just get a solidstate clean amp head lol would have saved you tons of money and time and give you the same tone in the end.


----------



## johnnytuinals

Just got my New DSL40c today from Amazon for $381.at that price I thought why not..Looking on the Box it has a Date 09/17 and that long trip to the states....Wondering since these might have been the last DSL40s being made,,I was wondering were these inproved from the earlier DSL40s from the last few years?...………………..JT


----------



## ken361

same


----------



## Bill Fetter

I could be wrong but I think yht DSL40C followed the JVM2000 DSL401. I had the 401 but was not too keen on the sound of the EL84 power tubes and the insane volume!


----------



## Micky

johnnytuinals said:


> Just got my New DSL40c today from Amazon for $381.at that price I thought why not..Looking on the Box it has a Date 09/17 and that long trip to the states....Wondering since these might have been the last DSL40s being made,,I was wondering were these inproved from the earlier DSL40s from the last few years?...………………..JT


They are all the same, no revisions or board/design changes.


----------



## ken361

BanditPanda said:


> ok DSL40C owners. I know I will garner a lot of disdain for making this request and not only because there are a lot of variables involved. Speaker & cab type at this point are not of interest. Neither are pedals or pick up specs.
> If, in your opinion you are able to get your DSL40C to sound like a " plexi " or a close proximity thereof would you mind telling me what channels / settings on the amp you are using?
> With Humbucker & Single coils.
> Thanks for your help.
> BP


This your ride? hope u have facebook


----------



## BanditPanda

Ken. No & No.
BP


----------



## ken361

BanditPanda said:


> Ken. No & No.
> BP


it was a car spinning out, his licence plate said PANDAA on it


----------



## MarshallDog

ken361 said:


> This your ride? hope u have facebook




That rice buner sounds pretty bad ass I must say!


----------



## solarburn

MarshallDog said:


> That rice buner sounds pretty bad ass I must say!



my Harley fart was much better. Tickled some ass hairs. No fizz.


----------



## Bill Fetter

Sweet!


----------



## MemphisMarshallMan

I switched out the speaker in my new DSL40c (sweetwater deal) again. I originally swapped the 70/80 speaker for a Vintage 30 and that was an excellent upgrade. But just for giggles I ordered a Creamback Neo 65.
When it came in I put it in the DSL40c and it sounded really smooth. I then took it out and mounted it and the original 70/80 speaker in a 2x12 cab and played the EarCandy 'speaker break-in CD' through them overnight.
Both of those speakers sound SO much better after being properly broken in. I would say they each sound 30% or more better than before.
Even the stock 70/80 speaker was pretty good after breaking it in.
I still went with the Creamback Neo in the amp because of the weight savings of about 6 lbs...but thats a little over 10% the total weight of the amp so for me it was worth it.


----------



## Bownse

I have the 70/80 and a Creamback 75 in a double 12 too. Sounds pretty good.


----------



## Bucky Berg

New DSL40C owner here. I got one from Sweetwater blowout. Paid about $370. After a week of rehearsals I put an Eminence CV-75 in it and an old Peavey Sheffield 1x12 cab. Just did a short tour with both. Really happy with tone. Use mostly red channel L1 with gain around noon or a little less. Play old school prog & metal. Use an OCD in front for mid solo, but with gain rolled off. Use a Soul Food after the OCD with gain about 3/4 pegged. Both together blows the Marshall into that super saturated zone.

A punk band opened for us Saturday. Due had a modded plexi 100w pegged. Luckily he had a kill switch on his LP. But even when he was slamming there was feedback at times. DSL goes there but much more controllable.


----------



## KraftyBob

Bucky Berg said:


> New DSL40C owner here. I got one from Sweetwater blowout. Paid about $370. After a week of rehearsals I put an Eminence CV-75 in it and an old Peavey Sheffield 1x12 cab. Just did a short tour with both. Really happy with tone. Use mostly red channel L1 with gain around noon or a little less. Play old school prog & metal. Use an OCD in front for mid solo, but with gain rolled off. Use a Soul Food after the OCD with gain about 3/4 pegged. Both together blows the Marshall into that super saturated zone.
> 
> A punk band opened for us Saturday. Due had a modded plexi 100w pegged. Luckily he had a kill switch on his LP. But even when he was slamming there was feedback at times. DSL goes there but much more controllable.


Good to hear - this is an awesome amp for the money. 

So you ran it as a 2x12? I’m in the process of rebuilding a 1x12 to go with the DSL40C. I have the Creamback in the combo and plan on using a V-Type in the extension cab. Anxiius to see if get similar results.


----------



## keno beenz

Just got my DSL40c 2 weeks ago ,went with Tung sol gold pin V1 JJ12ax7 V2 stock V3 and 1956 RCA long plate in the PI ,went with Groove tube E34Ls for power tubes ,swapped 70/80 for celestion 75watt cream back ..and wow...I may do the d19 mod here soon as well but I was very impressed when it was stock ,now Im blown away ..can it get even better ?? lwt me know what Im missing


----------



## Bucky Berg

KraftyBob said:


> Good to hear - this is an awesome amp for the money.
> 
> So you ran it as a 2x12? I’m in the process of rebuilding a 1x12 to go with the DSL40C. I have the Creamback in the combo and plan on using a V-Type in the extension cab. Anxiius to see if get similar results.


Yeah, have been running it as a 2x12. This Friday will be its first gig as a 1x12. Haven't rolled any tubes, yet.


----------



## ken361

keno beenz said:


> Just got my DSL40c 2 weeks ago ,went with Tung sol gold pin V1 JJ12ax7 V2 stock V3 and 1956 RCA long plate in the PI ,went with Groove tube E34Ls for power tubes ,swapped 70/80 for celestion 75watt cream back ..and wow...I may do the d19 mod here soon as well but I was very impressed when it was stock ,now Im blown away ..can it get even better ?? lwt me know what Im missing


set the bias to 32 most love it better that way at 60% dissipation chances are the factory is set too hot some reported as high 52


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

This is for solar and ken361, a little DSL40C noise , this is my grandson and I . Recorded with a Iphone


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Sorry you can’t see my ugly mug but who wants to . I keed


----------



## solarburn

Ok. Yeah...I likee!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Thanks bro


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

I just couldn’t let you and Ken have all the fun


----------



## MarshallDog

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> This is for solar and ken361, a little DSL40C noise , this is my grandson and I . Recorded with a Iphone




Wow man, sounds great!!! Throw some bass in there and make up some lyrics and you have a catchy tune!!!! Your Grandson is good on the drums. That must be so cool to play with him?!


----------



## ken361

I use to drum for many years sounds good!


----------



## ken361

Just throw some drum fills in with toms and some rolls I learned from Peart,Bonham,Moon and jazz drumming


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Thanks for the reply’s guy I thank you all , and yes it quite a pleasure to be able to jam with him


----------



## solarburn

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> I just couldn’t let you and Ken have all the fun



Absolutely!


----------



## tmingle

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> This is for solar and ken361, a little DSL40C noise , this is my grandson and I . Recorded with a Iphone



Cool!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Thanks for taking the time to check it out brother


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Thanks for listening Ken I will be sure to pass the message along to him, he is also a damm good guitarist as well


----------



## Bownse

You guys need to quit sucking up all the talent and leave some dregs for the rest of us.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

I will have to take that as a compliment, thanks Bownse


----------



## Bownse

It was meant that way.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Thanks again bro


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Here is another of my grandson and myself


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Thanks for taking the time to check it out Ken  much appreciated


----------



## tmingle

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> Here is another of my grandson and myself



Thats awesome.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Tmingle thanks for taking the time to check it out  it is much appreciated


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Here is a bit more DSL40C noise


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

I do hope I am not pissing anyone off here with the random posts and not being much of a contributor. My fall back is I am still a newbie!


----------



## solarburn

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> I do hope I am not pissing anyone off here with the random posts and not being much of a contributor. My fall back is I am still a newbie!



Let it fly!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

I am going to do just that my brother


----------



## solarburn

Here's mine getting naughty. Just pup changes.


----------



## solarburn

This mother Fuckerz amp gets it!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Daaeem Joe that sounds like a 50 watt 4 holer , to my damm ears


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

I hear a bit of Alvin Lee in your stuff , good fn chops bro keep them coming


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Second clipp, I hear a bit of uncle Ted


----------



## ken361

CCR inspired riffs I put together, middle position boosted with the fryette SAS pedal. Used a V pick for that added bite



Ozzy! not perfect though on a Les Paul Special II boosted red 1 bedroom levels. Since i'm back to work I would like to upgrade to a better Les Paul soon I hope but this rocks though.


----------



## BanditPanda

Pretty good Ken !
What's the name of that Ozzy song?
BP


----------



## ken361

BanditPanda said:


> Pretty good Ken !
> What's the name of that Ozzy song?
> BP


crazy train


----------



## ken361

ken361 said:


> crazy train


I never reallty worked on the licks on that song, its a bit harder on that guitar with less sustain and im getting slower as I aged


----------



## ken361

For Solar I know you have some Ace in you!


----------



## Bownse

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> Here is a bit more DSL40C noise




Started out rough but switched over into fun!

[get a haircut, hippie!]


----------



## Bownse

ken361 said:


> For Solar I know you have some Ace in you!




You understand that not everyone has a fb account so can't see links that route into that system. Right?


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Nice work there Ken, the first records I purchased (45)’s were ccr ! Albums were GFR the red one LZ2,and paranoid, Black Sabbath


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Thanks brother Bownse, as for the haircut, I am going to let it pass, used to keep it in a flat top , but finding a good barber to cut it got to be a pain in the ass , so I just let it grow


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

And Ken that is a really good looking tele


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Yea Bownse they all start off a bit rough, would probably be better to rehearse them before recording, but that’s just not the way we seem to do things, thanks for taking the time to watch it


----------



## ken361

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> Nice work there Ken, the first records I purchased (45)’s were ccr ! Albums were GFR the red one LZ2,and paranoid, Black Sabbath


love grand funk there from Flint like 40 miles from me red album is awesome


----------



## ken361

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> And Ken that is a really good looking tele


Squier Affinity its pretty awesome believe it or not


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Yes it is , never much airplay for the songs on that particular album but good stuff indeed


----------



## Guitar Rod

I have a Bad Monkey going into a DSL40C and they sound great together. But it plays well with all pedals I've tried. Klon clone works well too. But my favorite pedal with it is the Joyo Hot Plexi. Marshall ROAR in spades!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

My only dirt pedal at this time is a boss SD1, into the 40c sounds pretty good!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

I need to check out the joyo, and Friedman be overdrive


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Ken my grandson has a Squier affinity in fire engine red , and your right they are nice instruments, I myself have a couple of affinity parts casters, and they hold tune and play just fine , once you give them a little TLC


----------



## solarburn

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> Here is another of my grandson and myself




loved the riffage in this!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Thanks Solar! Thant song is something that I can still remember from about 93 ,so you think that I could just play it without thinking, but I still need to remember to count them out to keep the sequence correct


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

I have about 4 different tunes I no longer remember!?


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

It was oringanly called effective ( simple but effective), but when my grandson linked it to you tube it was misspelled! But we left it that way. And thanks for taking the time to check it out!


----------



## ken361

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> Ken my grandson has a Squier affinity in fire engine red , and your right they are nice instruments, I myself have a couple of affinity parts casters, and they hold tune and play just fine , once you give them a little TLC


I want a strat again! The Creamback takes single coils really well you should try the Fryette pedal its pretty sweet it retains the amps tones but adds fatness to the red with more dynamics if you want . AC powered EF86 tube powered.


----------



## ken361

Really want a plexi even a Bugera1960!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

I know so do I, Solars clip the first one has a very plexi growl going on


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Man I can say that love Em or hate em the 40c can produce some very good tones. Not to stray to far from this thread but when I first got my 2104 in the late 70’s they got bashed by the purists back then ( oh it has a master volume) I thought it was the best amp ever I wished I had never sold it


----------



## tmingle

Guitar Rod said:


> I have a Bad Monkey going into a DSL40C and they sound great together. But it plays well with all pedals I've tried. Klon clone works well too. But my favorite pedal with it is the Joyo Hot Plexi. Marshall ROAR in spades!


I have 1 of the Hot Plexi pedals that I never use. How do you set yours?


----------



## Guitar Rod

tmingle said:


> I have 1 of the Hot Plexi pedals that I never use. How do you set yours?



I tend to have the pedal gain (not that it's really a gain knob) all the way down or no more than 10-11 o'clock. Adds more character to the distortion. Level at unity volume. Tone to taste. I roll off some of the highs. More importantly I have the amp on the green clean channel just at the edge of breakup, probably just before 3 o'clock on the gain. The pedal then pushes the amp into a tone I like that doesn't sound like a pedal.


----------



## solarburn

tmingle said:


> I have 1 of the Hot Plexi pedals that I never use. How do you set yours?



this vid has the Hot Plexi and Plexitone. Ignore the weirdo faces shown in the vid.


----------



## BanditPanda

I watched specifically for the weirdo faces !!
BP


----------



## solarburn

This one has the Hot Plexi going into my CTO-1 pedal. I don't usually stack pedals...ever cause it's more than often too much in front of my OR15.


----------



## solarburn

BanditPanda said:


> I watched specifically for the weirdo faces !!
> BP



guitar porn face!


----------



## solarburn

So I started my day off with the the DSL40C cutting in and out volume wise and then went silent other than the high volume hiss.LOL

turned out to be my instrument cable. It's firing off terrifically now! No wonder it's been feeling limp lately. It ain't now! Another cable and all is well.


----------



## jstich

So youre running both dirt boxes thru the clean channel of an Or 15?


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

You just don’t have a bad tone no matter what you’re playing through


----------



## solarburn

jstich said:


> So youre running both dirt boxes thru the clean channel of an Or 15?



It doesn't have a clean channel. I have the amp gain at light break up. I was surprised that it didn't turn to mush with both. Also I don't add much pedal gain.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

We all make some strange faces when playing, if you don’t your not doing it right


----------



## solarburn

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> You just don’t have a bad tone no matter what you’re playing through



That OR15 gets throaty and naughty. It's definitely porn rated...


----------



## solarburn

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> You just don’t have a bad tone no matter what you’re playing through


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

. Here is some more dsl40c noise


----------



## solarburn

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> . Here is some more dsl40c noise




That's some good noise pollution! Love that Marshall tone bruther. Real good.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Thanks Solar it’s the 40c and an avt50 in dual mono


----------



## jstich

Cool


----------



## solarburn

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> Thanks Solar it’s the 40c and an avt50 in dual mono



I use to own an AVT50C...it sounded Daem good.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

That they do brother, I also have a pair of lead 100 mosfets, one is brighter than the other, both are from 1985, never had a check up or anything since I purchased them, so with a big fat sharpie I put #1 on one and #2 on the other,#2 is the bright one


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

And thanks for checking out the vid Jstich


----------



## jstich

It was interesting watching Solars last two vids.Blend and mix that shit!


----------



## solarburn

jstich said:


> It was interesting watching Solars last two vids.Blend and mix that shit!



It's unpolished for sure.

And a lazy phone recording. Really not worth making it more audio friendly.


----------



## jstich

I meant mixing all the different gain settings.Like you said it can sound mushy if not done right.


----------



## solarburn

jstich said:


> I meant mixing all the different gain settings.Like you said it can sound mushy if not done right.



Yeah. I could have done better at that. I need to get another recorder. Mine died. When I get one I'll do more of a mix gain wise.


----------



## jstich

No, those last two vids were fine.


----------



## solarburn

jstich said:


> No, those last two vids were fine.



I didn't like the Hot Plexi into the DSL40 as much as I did the OR15. And that goes for the Plexitone too.

Both pedals mixed better with the lower mids of the OR15.


----------



## ken361

I edited 2 of my post dam spell check and vodka the bogner LaGrange is intising I Used red and blue with fender amps very amp like. The Lagrange is based off of old Marshall plexi's


----------



## solarburn

ken361 said:


> I edited 2 of my post dam spell check and vodka the bogner LaGrange is intising I Used red and blue with fender amps very amp like. The Lagrange is based off of old Marshall plexi's


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

I can certainly feel you on that Ken, my damm fingers hit the wrong letter all the fookin time


----------



## Bownse

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> I need to check out the joyo, and Friedman be overdrive



I got an SAS after hearing SolarB's here in one of his posts. Blew my existing Metal Muff away with it's versatilaty and sound.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Here's mine getting naughty. Just pup changes.



Solar how in the hell did you get that frkn tone settings please


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Bownse said:


> I got an SAS after hearing SolarB's here in one of his posts. Blew my existing Metal Muff away with it's versatilaty and sound.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

I can definitely relate to that brother , and I wanna know how he got the tone on the vid I just replied to.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

My 40c’s are not modded and completely stock. And doing a lot of reading in this thread, I know Solars is stock as well


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

And yes I have read the entire thread,


----------



## ken361

http://www.ceriatone.com/ these are some good priced amps


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

ken361 said:


> Squier Affinity its pretty awesome believe it or not


I also will not knock the epiphone LP standards we hav a quartet of them and they all sound damm good with a little TLC


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

And although I have read the entire thread, I still go back and reread areas of interest because I can no longer remember everything in it


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

And Ken of the clips I have put up only, runaway 2018 , and New Years smoke are played with the Gibson , the others are with my trusty tobacco burst epiphone Les Paul


----------



## ken361

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> I also will not knock the epiphone LP standards we hav a quartet of them and they all sound damm good with a little TLC


you have any strats? I might try a G&L im sure the quality is as good or better especially the frets, fenders wear faster


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Yes I do have a few strats , out of 2 MIM Strats I have one left , out of squire parts casters, I have 4 all with different setups , mostly humbuckers in the bridge the MIM’s both got hot rails in the neck and JBjr’s in the bridge


----------



## BanditPanda

.


----------



## BanditPanda

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> I can definitely relate to that brother , and I wanna know how he got the tone on the vid I just replied to.



Herbert....he's recording with a vintage Blackberry !!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Ok not real up to speed on that,as I have only been playing with these smart phones for about 3 1/2 years , and still am not up to speed


----------



## BanditPanda

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> Ok not real up to speed on that,as I have only been playing with these smart phones for about 3 1/2 years , and still am not up to speed




Not to worry. Just joking. Perhaps the SB will reveal which iphone he uses to record with ?


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

And BanditPanda,I also screwed up my user name when I joined the forum, I tried to get SJMP but it wasn’t happening  but all’s well and good


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Maybe because I have not tried this yet on the 40c , is dime the volume and bring up the gain as a level?  Hey brother you never know!


----------



## Guitar Rod

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> I also will not knock the epiphone LP standards we hav a quartet of them and they all sound damm good with a little TLC



I have a cherry red flame 2005 Chinese Epiphone Les Paul Standard that is my favorite guitar to play. Sustain for days. Not sure if it was stock this way or the previous owner had the frets leveled, but its is perfect playing. Not a hint of a buzz anywhere. Granted, I rewired it with 50s wiring and Whole Lotta Humbuckers, but the fundamental guitar is that "the one" you look for. Also have a Japanese JV Squier Strat that I wouldn't trade for anything but a vintage Strat.



Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> Maybe because I have not tried this yet on the 40c , is dime the volume and bring up the gain as a level?  Hey brother you never know!



I've done that with all channels. Really makes it very touch sensitive and Plexi-ish sounding. Hendrix-like. Thought it worked best with the red channel because you can get a little bit of that pre-amp tube distortion in there too. Gets loud FAST though.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Hell yes it does, but these damm amps do deliver


----------



## CraigP




----------



## BanditPanda

By he way Herbert...don't know what settings you use but a fellow MFr gave me these and they do sound pretty dam good.
My settings:Clifdawg
Classic Gain - Crunch
Pentode mode
Gain: 10
Volume: 4 or higher
Treble: 4
Middle: 10
Bass: 7
Presence: 3
Resonance: 7


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Thanks for the response,BP, I will give these settings a go!!


----------



## solarburn

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> Solar how in the hell did you get that frkn tone settings please



Lead 2 gain low but enuff to meat up at full guitar volume. The EQ set to taste. Guitar was EC1000 with a Dimarzio SD /Joe paf in neck.

Just rode volume and tone control for pup combinations.

Oh and I used an old LG phone to record with. It was really outdated but recorded well for just using a phone. It died a while back and new phone records with too much bite and harsh. So I haven't made new clips lately. Thinking about trying a new Zoom to record. When I get extra change in my pocket.


----------



## Bownse

Have you considered one of these?


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Ok I tried to figure out how you did it, but your clip was still better!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Ok I tried to figure out how you did it, but your clip was still better!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Damm I am working in the hills above the sunset Strip , right where Gazaris used to be, and the cell service sucks


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Damm I am working in the hills above the sunset Strip , right where Gazaris used to be, and the cell service sucks


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

See what I mean two dbl posts in a row


----------



## solarburn

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> Ok I tried to figure out how you did it, but your clip was still better!



Try treb at 4.5/mids at 6 and bass at 4. Now get the volume at 4. I'm not hiding anything.


----------



## solarburn

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> Ok I tried to figure out how you did it, but your clip was still better!



tell me your settings. We'll go from there.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Once I get home from work brother


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Off the top of my head 3:00 mids treble same preseance 12:00 bass same lead 2 gain 9:00 renaissance 12:00 volume 3/4 up


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

I never said you were hiding anything


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

I am about to give your settings a try going with resonance at noon presence at noon gain at 2- 9:00 volume at noon


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Oh and tone shift out


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Going with the faded SG will report back soon


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Ok Solar my brother  I increased gain to about 3 on the dial and  damm it bro, it do sound good, also have to say I was running it through a MG 412 (looks for stocks and stones to be aimed at myself) I fricken love it no more fn shit , I love it


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Oh yea the SG was dimmed


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Ken 361 you have to try these settings treb 4.5 mids 6 bass 4 volume 5 renosence 5 presence 5 gain 2.5-3 tone shift out reverb 2. With your tele, start with your instrument vol at half, and proceed with caution!!! IMOTR ymmv


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

And to all my DSL40C brother’s , please check out these settings and report back give it a shot


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

I may seem a little over excited but the tone does rock


----------



## solarburn

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> I never said you were hiding anything



I know. Jus letting you know I'm being accurate.


----------



## ken361

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> Ken 361 you have to try these settings treb 4.5 mids 6 bass 4 volume 5 renosence 5 presence 5 gain 2.5-3 tone shift out reverb 2. With your tele, start with your instrument vol at half, and proceed with caution!!! IMOTR ymmv


I run gain at 6 or so the rest on 5


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Ok so you already know the secret


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

And Ken I am talking about the lead 2 channel


----------



## jericbrazier

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> This is for solar and ken361, a little DSL40C noise , this is my grandson and I . Recorded with a Iphone



You guys sound great!! You’re grandson has got some chops. I dig the simpler AC/DC school of drumming to the Neal Peart uber technical, poly rhythm playing. While I’m amazed by guys like Neil, Danny Carrey, and Keith Moon, being an old punk guy, I prefer to jam with a more meat potatoes beat a la, Grohl, Rudd, and Bonzo. Probably because I’m a bit of a hack. Anyway, long story short (way too late) the kid can play!! Really awesome to see a grandfather and his grandson playing some heavy rock. Thanks, you made my morning!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Thank for the compliments, I be sure to pass the proper compliments on


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Jericbrazier my grandson has a you tube channel called scott Pearrow music, we have a couple more songs their, anything with SJMP in the title is he and I  and thanks for taking the time to check them out


----------



## jericbrazier

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> Maybe because I have not tried this yet on the 40c , is dime the volume and bring up the gain as a level?  Hey brother you never know!


I do that on the green channel (clean mode), and use an always on Keeley Oxblood. The Ox just gives the tone more girth, and does that Klonish thing really wel. I keep gain at zero, level a little below unity (so I can make my Muff louder than my clean), and tone to taste (usually right around 12 o’clock), if I’m playing with myself, always fun, I use a Bogner Red as my main gain stage. I use the dsl’s gain when I can get loud. I use a Red Dirt OD before the Bogner, and engage it too for heavy stuff and leads.
Long story short...(WAY too late). The volume maxxed, and the gain as volume serves me well.
My dsl40c is at the doc’s getting biased and tubed, and since it’s been there I’ve gotten a Gibby GT that I haven’t gotten to try with the Marshall. Sooo excited! I’ll try to figure out how to post something, it’s gonna be a sh$&ty iPhone recording, but whatever...


----------



## solarburn

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> Ok so you already know the secret



that L2 can get all kinds of sounds set right. Most players dismiss it as too saturated. And miss the gold.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

solarburnDSL50 said:


> that L2 can get all kinds of sounds set right. Most players dismiss it as too saturated. And miss the gold.


Too saturated??? Wussies.

I kid... I kid...


----------



## solarburn

Angus Rhoads said:


> Too saturated??? Wussies.
> 
> I kid... I kid...


----------



## ken361

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> And Ken I am talking about the lead 2 channel


Gain at 3


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

We’re you able to play with any volume?


----------



## ken361

I play either really low just under 1 or loud red 1 at 4. Crunch loud at 8


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Ken my good man , when you can open her up and let her spill the goods you will love it ! Be prepared it won’t hide anything, but damm it sounds good


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Solar my brother you have stirred the pot and it smells good


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Have a song that I have been working on, called scatterbrain!! When my grandson and I record it I will post it up using the settings we discussed yesterday!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Jericbrazier you’re going to love your LP through your 40C


----------



## solarburn

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> Solar my brother you have stirred the pot and it smells good



I get to play mine at 4 whenever I want. And I do. I need that power section mixing with the preamp.


----------



## jericbrazier

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> Jericbrazier my grandson has a you tube channel called scott Pearrow music, we have a couple more songs their, anything with SJMP in the title is he and I  and thanks for taking the time to check them out


Absolutely!


----------



## jericbrazier

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> Jericbrazier you’re going to love your LP through your 40C


 Yeah, I feel like a kid waiting for Xmas morning.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

I hear you on that


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Jericbrazier the vids I put up only 2 are with a video cam , New Years smoke and runaway 2018, the others are with an I phone


----------



## jericbrazier

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> Jericbrazier the vids I put up only 2 are with a video cam , New Years smoke and runaway 2018, the others are with an I phone


They sounded great!


----------



## jericbrazier

solarburnDSL50 said:


> that L2 can get all kinds of sounds set right. Most players dismiss it as too saturated. And miss the gold.


Yeah, I love lead 2 after I put in a Eminence Swamp Thang. Thic, chewy, add an od to tighten, and damn close to Cantrell. Add a little chorus and/or cocked wah...Adam Jones. I love this amp. I’ve had for 4yrs, and like it more every time I play.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Thanks brother jericbrazier, I have more but none are ready , at this time , and I have had my 40c’s since March of 2016, still finding tones in these baby’s


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

When ever I go to a GC, SamAsh to play an instrument, I set up the quiet volume my settings are lead 1 vol, to taste (1-1/2) gain 6 treb, 8 mids, 8 bass 5 presence 5-8 resonance 5-7 reverb 3, DSL40C or DSL100H, same as my tv volume at home,


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Only difference is that at home I might plug in a Boss SD1


----------



## jericbrazier

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> Only difference is that at home I might plug in a Boss SD1


----------



## Micky

Well, my warranty period is finally over.

Does this mean it is now safe to mod my amp?

But seriously, in the over 5-year time I have owned it, it has never , ever let me down. It has been out of the country, and on stages all over New England. It has been on the test bench, kitchen table, living room, (never in the bedroom) in the downstairs studio, out on the patio, in my office and way too many other places to mention.

It has never blown a fuse. It has been played on 10 only once. It has had 5 different speakers in it, 3 sets of finals, and been played by numerous other guitarists. It has had guitars, bass, mic and even a CD player plugged into it. It has been on top of a full stack, a pair of 15" cabs, 2X12 cabs, 4X12 cabs, but never an extension 1X12. The NOS preamp tubes I installed when I first got it are still running strong.

Now, since I have modded it to accept 6550 finals it has become a beast of an amp. So much so that I rarely play it anymore, in favor of 5-15W amps and combos. The photos I have shared here of it have been viewed all over the world. I still get emails about how to do this or how to mod that. This thread has been the bane of my existence here. 

Best part is how this amp has become one of the most popular amps Marshall has ever produced. Makes me really happy to see so many here enjoying theirs as well...


----------



## Exojam

Well I am very glad you created this thread and your help to me as a beginning player and amp modder.

Even though I still have not dropped my NOS tubes in it yet, trying to finally stay out of the hospital and put some more time on the original tubes before they become spares.

Also to all those that contributed things for me to learn from.


----------



## solarburn

Micky said:


> Well, my warranty period is finally over.
> 
> Does this mean it is now safe to mod my amp?
> 
> But seriously, in the over 5-year time I have owned it, it has never , ever let me down. It has been out of the country, and on stages all over New England. It has been on the test bench, kitchen table, living room, (never in the bedroom) in the downstairs studio, out on the patio, in my office and way too many other places to mention.
> 
> It has never blown a fuse. It has been played on 10 only once. It has had 5 different speakers in it, 3 sets of finals, and been played by numerous other guitarists. It has had guitars, bass, mic and even a CD player plugged into it. It has been on top of a full stack, a pair of 15" cabs, 2X12 cabs, 4X12 cabs, but never an extension 1X12. The NOS preamp tubes I installed when I first got it are still running strong.
> 
> Now, since I have modded it to accept 6550 finals it has become a beast of an amp. So much so that I rarely play it anymore, in favor of 5-15W amps and combos. The photos I have shared here of it have been viewed all over the world. I still get emails about how to do this or how to mod that. This thread has been the bane of my existence here.
> 
> Best part is how this amp has become one of the most popular amps Marshall has ever produced. Makes me really happy to see so many here enjoying theirs as well...



Oh you ole volume beast killer. I love 6550's and know it opened that amp up nicely...clean or saturated.

Thanks bud for an epic thread on an amp that can!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Micky I appreciate this thread as well, has been a host of information for many of us


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

And it shall live on in infamy, come on in and share and spread the knowledge


----------



## Springfield Scooter

Micky said:


> Well, my warranty period is finally over.
> 
> Does this mean it is now safe to mod my amp?
> 
> But seriously, in the over 5-year time I have owned it, it has never , ever let me down. It has been out of the country, and on stages all over New England. It has been on the test bench, kitchen table, living room, (never in the bedroom) in the downstairs studio, out on the patio, in my office and way too many other places to mention.
> 
> It has never blown a fuse. It has been played on 10 only once. It has had 5 different speakers in it, 3 sets of finals, and been played by numerous other guitarists. It has had guitars, bass, mic and even a CD player plugged into it. It has been on top of a full stack, a pair of 15" cabs, 2X12 cabs, 4X12 cabs, but never an extension 1X12. The NOS preamp tubes I installed when I first got it are still running strong.
> 
> Now, since I have modded it to accept 6550 finals it has become a beast of an amp. So much so that I rarely play it anymore, in favor of 5-15W amps and combos. The photos I have shared here of it have been viewed all over the world. I still get emails about how to do this or how to mod that. This thread has been the bane of my existence here.
> 
> Best part is how this amp has become one of the most popular amps Marshall has ever produced. Makes me really happy to see so many here enjoying theirs as well...




Happy Anniversary!

These days its soo easy to flip a piece of gear you dont bond with.

To keep it 5 years says a lot!


----------



## solarburn

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> We’re you able to play with any volume?



I play at 4 volume wise...90% of the time cause my neighbors are real cool.


----------



## ken361

Knock on wood


----------



## solarburn

ken361 said:


> Knock on wood



Bitch! What are you drinking...? Thinking vodka!


----------



## solarburn

Here's the truth...


----------



## ken361

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Bitch! What are you drinking...? Thinking vodka!


water Sat night vodka


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Solar I am still doing my best when it comes to navigating around the forum and posting, I had thought I quoted Ken when I asked the question. I know you get to play with a little juice as do I. I will get this all figured out


----------



## solarburn

ken361 said:


> water Sat night vodka



pacing yourself...and put up another clip!


----------



## BanditPanda

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Here's the truth...





LMAO...Was it Coca Cola ?


----------



## Guitar Rod

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I play at 4 volume wise...90% of the time cause my neighbors are real cool.



I rarely get to 4 at home, but close. I like turning it up to where it just opens up and fills out the sound, but still isn't crazy loud. Somewhere closing in on 3. But 4 sounds glorious. Full on, but still not compressing too much.


----------



## solarburn

BanditPanda said:


> LMAO...Was it Coca Cola ?



Yeah right...not!


----------



## solarburn

Guitar Rod said:


> I rarely get to 4 at home, but close. I like turning it up to where it just opens up and fills out the sound, but still isn't crazy loud. Somewhere closing in on 3. But 4 sounds glorious. Full on, but still not compressing too much.



3's solid too. And yeah I love the way the power section opens up...


----------



## solarburn

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> Solar I am still doing my best when it comes to navigating around the forum and posting, I had thought I quoted Ken when I asked the question. I know you get to play with a little juice as do I. I will get this all figured out



No worries bud. I'm the worst at navigating as at times I think I'm on one thread and find myself on another that has a totally different topic.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

I hear that, and when you hit the like button it says unlike, took me a couple days before I figured it out  and then to quote, I do believe I got it down now but posting vids from my phone  I haven’t got down yet


----------



## solarburn

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> I hear that, and when you hit the like button it says unlike, took me a couple days before I figured it out  and then to quote, I do believe I got it down now but posting vids from my phone  I haven’t got down yet



You'll get it. And they sound real good so once you figure it out all is good. Always enjoy hearing my Bruthers play our fav amps!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

The settings we were discussing the other day, on lead 2, at 5 on volume seems to me that their was still a bit more headroom left. I just didn’t keep going with it but , it will peak paint, drop panties, and make ears bleed


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

solarburnDSL50 said:


> You'll get it. And they sound real good so once you figure it out all is good. Always enjoy hearing my Bruthers play our fav amps!


Same hear bro , have checked out the new thread. From LRT#1, show me your riffs?


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Still at work and service is slow up here in the hills abv holly weird


----------



## solarburn

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> Same hear bro , have checked out the new thread. From LRT#1, show me your riffs?



ah hell I like your riffs better. You had some ass kickers going. I'm riff challenged although I pay attention when I hear them. Riffs can be more stimulating than soloing.

I would love to riff better. Makes a song build momentum...


----------



## solarburn

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> Same hear bro , have checked out the new thread. From LRT#1, show me your riffs?



where is this? Copy your browser when you are there...


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

In the celler


----------



## solarburn

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> In the celler



I found it!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Cool


----------



## solarburn

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> Cool



I put a DSL40C and a OR15 there.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Hell yes still driving I will put up some when I get home


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

solarburnDSL50 said:


> ah hell I like your riffs better. You had some ass kickers going. I'm riff challenged although I pay attention when I hear them. Riffs can be more stimulating than soloing.
> 
> I would love to riff better. Makes a song build momentum...


Solar my brother you do just fine, when I started playing again, 10 years ago I couldn’t remember shit, so through a 15 watt fender I mimiced a shit ton of cover music and slowly went back to my original shit in my head, that in itself got me to fng around with the different riffs, plus for about 2-1/2 years with headphones, so nobody could hear the slop, what you hear now is what came about


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

And when I am trying to put something together, I don’t want it to be boring, ( I know some of it is though) I still need to work on lead breaks and correct timing


----------



## ken361

Liking lead 2 with the Creamback! Played the Bogner La Grange Plexi pedal through the DSL40 at GC clean channel it was pretty nice! Might have to get one


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

ken361 said:


> Liking lead 2 with the Creamback! Played the Bogner La Grange Plexi pedal through the DSL40 at GC clean channel it was pretty nice! Might have to get one


I also want to check one of them out as well


----------



## K2JLX

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> I also want to check one of them out as well



Have one, paired with a 40c: The la grange kills it on the clean channel, incidentally also great on a dsl100hr and the origin 50h.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

K2JLX said:


> Have one, paired with a 40c: The la grange kills it on the clean channel, incidentally also great on a dsl100hr and the origin 50h.


I have not had the chance to check one out yet, but have heard a few positive posts on them, also not tried an origin yet! How do you like yours?


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Some more DSL40C noise


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

And yes I know I have posted this in the ( show me your riffs) thread, but it is still DSL40C content.


----------



## BanditPanda

ken361 said:


> Liking lead 2 with the Creamback! Played the Bogner La Grange Plexi pedal through the DSL40 at GC clean channel it was pretty nice! Might have to get one



Sorry...  no hijack intended.! A pedal was mentioned. Just threw in my 2 cents worth.
Back to regularly scheduled programming.

Do you research on it first. It is pricey and not without issues in terms of reliability( according to some reviews).
And lots of Plexis in a box to chose from. Recently got the JHS Charlie Brown (JTM45) which is really good and does have EQ. Currently use the Ramble FX Marvel V3 (early-'70s 1987X to some players ears) which is also very good with an 18V switch too. No EQ though just Hi Treble and Normal blend dials.
Also have the Mooer Blues Crab which is their take on the Marshall Bluesbreaker pedal. Very affordable and good. No EQ though. Only Level, Tone and Gain.


----------



## ken361

BanditPanda said:


> Sorry...  no hijack intended.! A pedal was mentioned. Just threw in my 2 cents worth.
> Back to regularly scheduled programming.
> 
> Do you research on it first. It is pricey and not without issues in terms of reliability( according to some reviews).
> And lots of Plexis in a box to chose from. Recently got the JHS Charlie Brown (JTM45) which is really good and does have EQ. Currently use the Ramble FX Marvel V3 (early-'70s 1987X to some players ears) which is also very good with an 18V switch too. No EQ though just Hi Treble and Normal blend dials.
> Also have the Mooer Blues Crab which is their take on the Marshall Bluesbreaker pedal. Very affordable and good. No EQ though. Only Level, Tone and Gain.


Yeah I read some, I use to have the red and blue when I was using fenders thx!


----------



## ken361

Tried the new AC30 112 pretty sweet dynamic and lots of gain, use to own a HW AC15, AC10 pretty cool also smaller sound though


----------



## jim5000

I have a DSL40c that I've been gigging for a while.

I've noticed lots of people in this thread have the presence and resonance midway, from 4 to 7.

Whenever I play mine, if I turn the presence up it sounds piercingly bright, and if I turn the resonance up it sounds really boomy. So I have them both at 1 or 2.

My EQ settings are generally 5 for low, high, and mid settings. I don't get much time prior to the gig starting to change all the settings, and i can't run the amp at gig volume at home.

Should I try lowering my EQ and turning up the resonance and presence settings to balance it?


----------



## ken361

jim5000 said:


> I have a DSL40c that I've been gigging for a while.
> 
> I've noticed lots of people in this thread have the presence and resonance midway, from 4 to 7.
> 
> Whenever I play mine, if I turn the presence up it sounds piercingly bright, and if I turn the resonance up it sounds really boomy. So I have them both at 1 or 2.
> 
> My EQ settings are generally 5 for low, high, and mid settings. I don't get much time prior to the gig starting to change all the settings, and i can't run the amp at gig volume at home.
> 
> Should I try lowering my EQ and turning up the resonance and presence settings to balance it?


whats the bias at? im usually at all 5 its a pretty good balance with a creamback


----------



## BanditPanda

Standard amp settings with the pedals doing the heavy lifting.
Classic Gain /Clean Channel
Gain @ 3 / Treb @ 3 / Mid @ 6 / Bass @ 3 / Pres @ 4 / Res @ 0
BP


----------



## K2JLX

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> I have not had the chance to check one out yet, but have heard a few positive posts on them, also not tried an origin yet! How do you like yours?


 
I love the Origin 50h, there’s a lot of poor audio reviews on YouTube that do the amplifier no justice, but I can vouch that it sounds really good and has a real vintage vibe my DSL’s and JCM 900 just don’t have. 

My one tip would be to crank it, but that’s the Marshall way!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

K2JLX said:


> I love the Origin 50h, there’s a lot of poor audio reviews on YouTube that do the amplifier no justice, but I can vouch that it sounds really good and has a real vintage vibe my DSL’s and JCM 900 just don’t have.
> 
> My one tip would be to crank it, but that’s the Marshall way!


Yea brother I have been jonesing for a 1987xl, but with the divorce card( the GC gear card) just might have to take a nice long look!!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

And plus that on a good cranking


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

A number of posts back , I was discussing with Solar about plexish tones, and I left my settings up and how well it came out


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

jim5000 said:


> I have a DSL40c that I've been gigging for a while.
> 
> I've noticed lots of people in this thread have the presence and resonance midway, from 4 to 7.
> 
> Whenever I play mine, if I turn the presence up it sounds piercingly bright, and if I turn the resonance up it sounds really boomy. So I have them both at 1 or 2.
> 
> My EQ settings are generally 5 for low, high, and mid settings. I don't get much time prior to the gig starting to change all the settings, and i can't run the amp at gig volume at home.
> 
> Should I try lowering my EQ and turning up the resonance and presence settings to balance it?


Hey brother I didn’t catch what guitars your using, if Strats, they tend to be bright, the humbucker instruments tend to be a bit darker


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Just need a minor eq adjusting


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

BanditPanda said:


> Standard amp settings with the pedals doing the heavy lifting.
> Classic Gain /Clean Channel
> Gain @ 3 / Treb @ 3 / Mid @ 6 / Bass @ 3 / Pres @ 4 / Res @ 0
> BP


BP what pedals?


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

I think is ok to be off topic just a smidge  I do it on ? More than I like to admit


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

jim5000 it sucks you can’t run gig volume at home, but in the last 2 years that is how I set mine up, as you well know , it sounds better when you can give it a little juice. I do have settings for tv volume but they differ from loud


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

And I cheat a bit, by using a vox tone lab se, with the volume low I do use some of it’s features, I set the amps to green clean vol 2 gain 2 the rest of the eq knobs to noon, on the vox tone lab, I use the amp modeler for the 68 plexi, and the tube screamer good quite fun


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

ken361 said:


> Liking lead 2 with the Creamback! Played the Bogner La Grange Plexi pedal through the DSL40 at GC clean channel it was pretty nice! Might have to get one


How you getting along with the lead 2 now Ken?


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

jim5000 I also run quite with lead1 at volume 2 gain 5 with an SD1 set for a clean boost  sounds awesome as well


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

All depends on the mood


----------



## ken361

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> How you getting along with the lead 2 now Ken?


its kind of similar to a boosted amp for gain and i like the warmth


----------



## BanditPanda

Will send pm if ok by you. Don't want to hijack the thread anymore than I already did.
BP


----------



## jim5000

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> Hey brother I didn’t catch what guitars your using, if Strats, they tend to be bright, the humbucker instruments tend to be a bit darker



I'm playing a Les Paul standard with it. Its the 2006 model with 'Burstbucker' pickups in it.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

My LP is a 2018 tribute series it is a tad bright, but also sounds as if it has a built in boost but it’s completely stock


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

In the early 80’s I had a 76 Gibson explorer that I used to set a crybaby wha to get a treble boost, my strat was a 79 model that I had gotten routed for a bill Lawrence humbucker, this was all through a 50 watt MV Marshall full stack


----------



## bolintrucks

jim5000 said:


> I have a DSL40c that I've been gigging for a while.
> 
> I've noticed lots of people in this thread have the presence and resonance midway, from 4 to 7.
> 
> Whenever I play mine, if I turn the presence up it sounds piercingly bright, and if I turn the resonance up it sounds really boomy. So I have them both at 1 or 2.
> 
> My EQ settings are generally 5 for low, high, and mid settings. I don't get much time prior to the gig starting to change all the settings, and i can't run the amp at gig volume at home.
> 
> Should I try lowering my EQ and turning up the resonance and presence settings to balance it?


Jim5000, hard to 'answer' your question, but here is how I setup. Clean/Crunch with gain dimed, volume to room, EQ around noon, resonance 9:00, presence 11:00. Using an LP with Classic 57's and playing blues-rock. TK


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow




----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Sorry for the camera man


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Hear is something slow and easy


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Sorry for the camera man


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

https://youtu.be/ieSaiP-T-rw


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

See what happens when you get shitty service it makes do things twice, sorry guys . I will try not to post while I am at work


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

This is some more dsl40c noise, also why you should not have to many Colorado kool aids and try to record, about 11:30 pm in my garage on a Friday night back in March with the flu


----------



## ken361

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> This is some more dsl40c noise, also why you should not have to many Colorado kool aids and try to record, about 11:30 pm in my garage on a Friday night back in March with the flu



Hey just bought a Epi black Custom Pro Les Paul! my first new toy since back to working again, setup was off but sounded good so far on my dsl, lots of clarity! maple top on it too. Can you give me your bridge setup specs? I have a MM and a 32 ruler. The neck is dead strait so I have to add some relief to it and I know what I like my pups set at so the bridge kind of high though. Thanks Has probuckers vintage so maybe not very hot but will see how it responds after the set up


----------



## ken361

be back later on !


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

ken361 said:


> Hey just bought a Epi black Custom Pro Les Paul! my first new toy since back to working again, setup was off but sounded good so far on my dsl, lots of clarity! maple top on it too. Can you give me your bridge setup specs? I have a MM and a 32 ruler. The neck is dead strait so I have to add some relief to it and I know what I like my pups set at so the bridge kind of high though. Thanks Has probuckers vintage so maybe not very hot but will see how it responds after the set up


Sure thing Ken the top of The adjusting wheel is3/32’s from the top of the body


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

This is on the low e side hope this helps


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

ken361 said:


> be back later on !


Ok brother


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Some more dsl40c noise


----------



## ken361

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> Sure thing Ken the top of The adjusting wheel is3/32’s from the top of the body


Fretting the last fret?


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

https://youtu.be/JIVUwM-IPkg Here comes another


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

ken361 said:


> Fretting the last fret?


No bro the height adjustment wheel on the bridge itself


----------



## solarburn

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> Some more dsl40c noise




That's what I'm talking about!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

I still have more my brothers, I should probably go practice with my grandson for a few


----------



## ken361

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> No bro the height adjustment wheel on the bridge itself


From the 12th fret?


----------



## solarburn

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> I still have more my brothers, I should probably go practice with my grandson for a few




love the attack on this one.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

This is DSL40c noise, so I am not off topic, Solar my brother this is the lead 2 channel


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

ken361 said:


> From the 12th fret?


I will try and measure from the 12 , my eyes don’t see that well with the small scale ruler, 4/32’s


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

I hope that helps Ken the small scale ruler I am trying to get increments with, is a HO scale ruler that I used with my model railroad projects


----------



## solarburn

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> This is DSL40c noise, so I am not off topic, Solar my brother this is the lead 2 channel




I really like this one. Wish I was there with you two! Jam'n!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Thanks brother, I do think I should have maybe did a bit of an edit, just not my style, he he , I just go for broke, I typically shoot from the hip, so to speak


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Hey brother’s I still have some more, will do a bit of them a little bit later


----------



## solarburn

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> Thanks brother, I do think I should have maybe did a bit of an edit, just not my style, he he , I just go for broke, I typically shoot from the hip, so to speak



Well yeah man. Me too! Turds an all.

The last one has some stuff I really like. Keep shoot'n!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I really like this one. Wish I was there with you two! Jam'n!


Same here bro, so hard to get anyone to come over and jam, it’s to far I have no gas , you know the soap opera


----------



## solarburn

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> Same here bro, so hard to get anyone to come over and jam, it’s to far I have no gas , you know the soap opera



Cali's a bit too far as I'm in Washington but know we'd have a blast! For sure.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Well yeah man. Me too! Turds an all.
> 
> The last one has some stuff I really like. Keep shoot'n!


I surely will,just don’t want to piss anyone off, going to put these up in show me your riffs, as well


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Cali's a bit too far as I'm in Washington but know we'd have a blast! For sure.


Fuck yes we would,


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Some more dsl40c tones, sorry for hogging the thread


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

solarburnDSL50 said:


> love the attack on this one.


I thank you bro means a lot


----------



## ken361

The guitar sounds amazing good the DSL holy crap, boosting with SAS pedal. The Creamback really shines, think it sounds better then my Gibson pro II I had over a year ago with a WGS British Lead. The crunch is really good also!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Post pic Ken, and happy new guitar day brother


----------



## ken361

Soon I'm not home


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

ken361 said:


> Soon I'm not home


That’s okay brother I am very patient


----------



## ken361

Facebook pic if you guys have FB 
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1941941639160673&set=gm.2253040431402780&type=3&ifg=1


----------



## BanditPanda

No. Sorry Ken.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

ken361 said:


> Facebook pic if you guys have FB
> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1941941639160673&set=gm.2253040431402780&type=3&ifg=1


Sorry Ken no FB


----------



## ken361

my dam newer pc doesnt take SD cards I just checked maybe my girlfriend has the plug so i can load it into my computer
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ENCTEBGH--epiphone-les-paul-custom-pro-ebony


----------



## ken361

Bedrooom sound sample with little sleep need a sm57 i'm sure it will sound a little better the PG58 crunch boosted with the sas V pick Traditional Light


----------



## ken361

little sloppy but you get the picture


----------



## KraftyBob

ken361 said:


> little sloppy but you get the picture



Nice Axe - congrats!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

ken361 said:


> Bedrooom sound sample with little sleep need a sm57 i'm sure it will sound a little better the PG58 crunch boosted with the sas V pick Traditional Light


 Gad dammit Ken I told you I was patient, those 2 clips are far better than a pic


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

I also have something  it’s called rubberband, and it’s coming


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Hear it is


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

DSL40C and lead 100 Marshall mosfet an mg 412 a cab let the rage fly


----------



## solarburn

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> DSL40C and lead 100 Marshall mosfet an mg 412 a cab let the rage fly



Sounds good to me!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

ken361 said:


> little sloppy but you get the picture



Hell no Ken sounds good bro, we have one that looks just as good as yours, sounds bad ass as well


----------



## Guitar Rod

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> DSL40C and lead 100 Marshall mosfet an mg 412 a cab let the rage fly



I have the same two amps. Played the Lead 100 last night and once dialed in, it really is damn close to a tube Marshall. And shockingly loud.


----------



## ken361

Guitar Rod said:


> I have the same two amps. Played the Lead 100 last night and once dialed in, it really is damn close to a tube Marshall. And shockingly loud.


saw a 75 watt combo 1980's solid state marshall on craiges im tempting to try these old ones they sound really good on the tube


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Yes my brother ‘s those solid state amps do cut like no other in another thread, I told Zachman how I was running it , and he sent me another option ( but I have yet to try it) but they both work


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

And I am running the mosfet with 2 mg cabs! ( ducks head and crouch’s for cover)


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

The rig that I use is in my avatar photo, it consists of 2 dsl40c’s 4 mg 412 cabs and the lead 100 Marshall mosfet, I don’t have a foot switch plugged in, so it is blending it’s two channels, the song rubberband is ran through, only one 40c, as I did not set up the entire rig yesterday when we recorded ! no foot switch in the mosfet!


----------



## ken361

Dam I forgot to lower my pups before intonation so I redone it yesterday ,E G were sharp a couple were off some also. Playing the cleans sounded good really vibrant now compared to my special II guitar lol. Action around 2 mm low E and 1.5 high E at the 12th fret


----------



## Ian Alderman

Hey! You know what's weird? I've been without the DSL40C for a few months, and back before the upgraded ones came out I was a bit trepidatious about upgrading a brand new amp, but I'm getting the itch for a DSL40C again, and for reasons I can't explain, it doesn't seem like a half bad idea. I don't know why, but now that they can be had used for a sweet price, the notion of replacing the speaker, lowering the bias, and looking at retube kits on Reverb.com doesn't really bother me that much. Not sure why now I'm wanting to go this road, where a few months ago I seemed to have a big hard on about improving one of these amps.


----------



## ken361

Ian Alderman said:


> Hey! You know what's weird? I've been without the DSL40C for a few months, and back before the upgraded ones came out I was a bit trepidatious about upgrading a brand new amp, but I'm getting the itch for a DSL40C again, and for reasons I can't explain, it doesn't seem like a half bad idea. I don't know why, but now that they can be had used for a sweet price, the notion of replacing the speaker, lowering the bias, and looking at retube kits on Reverb.com doesn't really bother me that much. Not sure why now I'm wanting to go this road, where a few months ago I seemed to have a big hard on about improving one of these amps.


wassup Ian


----------



## Ian Alderman

ken361 said:


> wassup Ian



Not much man! How goes it?


----------



## ken361

Ian Alderman said:


> Not much man! How goes it?


doing alright!


----------



## Ian Alderman

ken361 said:


> doing alright!



Awesome! Dude, those Motor City pickups are pretty awesome!


----------



## ken361

Ian Alderman said:


> Awesome! Dude, those Motor City pickups are pretty awesome!


thats what I hear! because there made here in MI


----------



## Seventh Son

ken361 said:


> Dam I forgot to lower my pups before intonation so I redone it yesterday ,E G were sharp a couple were off some also. Playing the cleans sounded good really vibrant now compared to my special II guitar lol. Action around 2 mm low E and 1.5 high E at the 12th fret


I just did my setup the other day. After trying a lot of different things over the years, such as setting intonation using the 5 and 17 frets (since that's where I spend most of my time on the fretboard), I tried again the recommended setup that came with my Fender Customer Shop Tool Pack (John Cruz's method), which is using the 12th fret and the 12th fret harmonic, and was pleasantly surprised how much more bite my guitar had due to the improved intonation across the strings. I found that I got a significantly more stable reading on the 12th fret, and the 12th fret harmonic is fairly stable by definition, just make sure you use the neck pickup and roll off the tone knob. I also set action lower at 4/64" (1.5 mm) and it works great. A much more modern feel and better for bending (my previous settings were from 4/64" on the high E to 3/32 on the low E). The lower action also helps improve intonation. I measured action on the 21st fret. Once I thought about it, I realized why John Cruz recommended the 21st fret, as that is the best place to measure action, since it's on the straightest part of the neck and least likely to have any fret wear that would result in progressively lower action over the years.


----------



## Seventh Son

Ian Alderman said:


> Hey! You know what's weird? I've been without the DSL40C for a few months, and back before the upgraded ones came out I was a bit trepidatious about upgrading a brand new amp, but I'm getting the itch for a DSL40C again, and for reasons I can't explain, it doesn't seem like a half bad idea. I don't know why, but now that they can be had used for a sweet price, the notion of replacing the speaker, lowering the bias, and looking at retube kits on Reverb.com doesn't really bother me that much. Not sure why now I'm wanting to go this road, where a few months ago I seemed to have a big hard on about improving one of these amps.


I have the DSL15C and DSL20CR. I had my DSL15C up for sale on CL, but have decided to keep it. I love them both, for similar and different reasons. They're great little amps.


----------



## Julien Neverheard

Great day Gents! I've just played my new DSL40C plugged to my Mesa 4x12 V30s cab. Really amazed that I can feel and touch my guitar tone like that. 

Cos I was totally blown by its current 4x12 set-up, I'm thinking of utilizing the internal speaker of the DSL40C by replacing it with a Greenback to upgrade my rig to a 5x12. I'll plug the 4x12 (8ohm) and DSL40C internal Greenback (8ohms), a total of 16ohms, to Series Box (16ohm) then pop it to the 16 ohm speaker out of the DSL40C.

Few questions here:
1. Is it a good/feasible idea? Will it work?
2. Is it worth it in terms of cost and effort?
3. Does the tone of the Mesa 4x12 V30s degrade due to the shared circuit with the single DSL40C Greenbacks?
4. Does the tone of the DSL40C Amp section degrade in tones due to added impedance/ohms?

Thanks in advance gents. Any inputs or comments are greatly appreciated. Cheers!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Julien Neverheard said:


> Great day Gents! I've just played my new DSL40C plugged to my Mesa 4x12 V30s cab. Really amazed that I can feel and touch my guitar tone like that.
> 
> Cos I was totally blown by its current 4x12 set-up, I'm thinking of utilizing the internal speaker of the DSL40C by replacing it with a Greenback to upgrade my rig to a 5x12. I'll plug the 4x12 (8ohm) and DSL40C internal Greenback (8ohms), a total of 16ohms, to Series Box (16ohm) then pop it to the 16 ohm speaker out of the DSL40C.
> 
> Few questions here:
> 1. Is it a good/feasible idea? Will it work?
> 2. Is it worth it in terms of cost and effort?
> 3. Does the tone of the Mesa 4x12 V30s degrade due to the shared circuit with the single DSL40C Greenbacks?
> 4. Does the tone of the DSL40C Amp section degrade in tones due to added impedance/ohms?
> 
> Thanks in advance gents. Any inputs or comments are greatly appreciated. Cheers!


Hey brother if you want to run internal, and a 412 cab, with that amp, make sure the cab is 16 ohms and your replacement greenie is 16 ohms, and you would plug both speaker cables into the 2 8 ohms taps on the back of the amp


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Another piece of dsl40c tone


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

ken361 said:


> thats what I hear! because there made here in MI


Hey Ken that new LPsounds really damm good, I bet you are going to bond with that baby, I really liked your clips, and now that you set her up to your liking, you are going to love that black( bitch). I know I love mine!!!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Some more dsl40c tone


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

I know you guys are tired of all the clips I have put up,( but like I said in the other thread)I am going to keep putting them up ,until I run out of material


----------



## Julien Neverheard

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> Hey brother if you want to run internal, and a 412 cab, with that amp, make sure the cab is 16 ohms and your replacement greenie is 16 ohms, and you would plug both speaker cables into the 2 8 ohms taps on the back of the amp


That's the mate. My Mesa 4x12 cab is loaded with 4x8ohm V30s wired in Series/Parallel making it an 8ohm cab. No plans to rewire it. That's why I came up with the idea of an 8ohm Greenback + 8ohm Mesa 4x12 joined to a Series box to make it 16ohms so I can plug it to 16ohm speaker out of dsl40c. What you think?


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Ahhh yes I am a dumb ass at this, but what I have been doing is (an ohms impedance mismatch) I plug my internal 16 ohm and an 8 ohm cab together, I know it’s wrong but I have got away with it for better than 2 years,this is at both gig volume, and tv volume. Let the stones fly my brother’s


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

I am sorry that I didn’t have a positive answer for you, but I have no experience with the series box that you mentioned


----------



## ken361

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> Hey Ken that new LPsounds really damm good, I bet you are going to bond with that baby, I really liked your clips, and now that you set her up to your liking, you are going to love that black( bitch). I know I love mine!!!


brown sugar is awesome


----------



## Julien Neverheard

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> Ahhh yes I am a dumb ass at this, but what I have been doing is (an ohms impedance mismatch) I plug my internal 16 ohm and an 8 ohm cab together, I know it’s wrong but I have got away with it for better than 2 years,this is at both gig volume, and tv volume. Let the stones fly my brother’s



Wow really? I'll try to look at that impedance mismatch thing. Maybe it can give some better ideas. Thanks a lot for your feedback!

Found this gears that may help me with my plans. Maybe some guys got some experience with these.
1. Z-Matcher-100 (Impedance Matcher)
2. Palmer Cab M Cabinet Merger (Series/Parallel Box)
3. Cab-Link Speaker Cab Combiner (Series/Parallel Box)

What I remain clueless is if the Mesa 4x12 will have degraded tones due to the internal Greenbacks sharing circuit with it.


----------



## Ian Alderman

Seventh Son said:


> I have the DSL15C and DSL20CR. I had my DSL15C up for sale on CL, but have decided to keep it. I love them both, for similar and different reasons. They're great little amps.



How loud can the 20 get? Is the 70/80 really that bad of a speaker? I was thinking that since it runs on EL34s in the power section, it would be interesting to put KT77s in there, but not certain if that would be wise for a 20 watter, maybe with a more powerful speaker who knows. And on paper it weighs about 14 pounds less than the 40CR. Seems like a really nice home and small gig amp.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Julien Neverheard said:


> Wow really? I'll try to look at that impedance mismatch thing. Maybe it can give some better ideas. Thanks a lot for your feedback!
> 
> Found this gears that may help me with my plans. Maybe some guys got some experience with these.
> 1. Z-Matcher-100 (Impedance Matcher)
> 2. Palmer Cab M Cabinet Merger (Series/Parallel Box)
> 3. Cab-Link Speaker Cab Combiner (Series/Parallel Box)
> 
> What I remain clueless is if the Mesa 4x12 will have degraded tones due to the internal Greenbacks sharing circuit with it.


I don’t think you will get degraded tone, but I am not the expert here, maybe some of the more experienced guys will chime in. I do know that 2 8 ohms cabs, or internal will net you 4 ohms , not 16 ohms


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Ian Alderman said:


> How loud can the 20 get? Is the 70/80 really that bad of a speaker? I was thinking that since it runs on EL34s in the power section, it would be interesting to put KT77s in there, but not certain if that would be wise for a 20 watter, maybe with a more powerful speaker who knows. And on paper it weighs about 14 pounds less than the 40CR. Seems like a really nice home and small gig amp.


The 70/80 is not that bad once broken in, ymmv, it’s what came stock in my 40c’s


----------



## Seventh Son

Ian Alderman said:


> How loud can the 20 get? Is the 70/80 really that bad of a speaker? I was thinking that since it runs on EL34s in the power section, it would be interesting to put KT77s in there, but not certain if that would be wise for a 20 watter, maybe with a more powerful speaker who knows. And on paper it weighs about 14 pounds less than the 40CR. Seems like a really nice home and small gig amp.


I use it mainly as a home recording and practice amp, but I’m sure it can get very loud. Based on what other people have written, it’s loud enough for rehearsals and smaller gigs.

The DSL20CR doesn’t have the same bottom end as the DSL15C due to running EL34s. In a 1:1 comparison with identical settings, it’s mostly just a different feel on palm mutes. Takes some getting used to. Both are great amps. The 70/80 is a very nice, smooth speaker. The G12E-60 is a little less defined on single notes, but I like it for that very reason and the fact that it’s darker and thick sounding. It has a lot of character, in my opinion.


----------



## Guitar Rod

.


----------



## Guitar Rod

Julien Neverheard said:


> Great day Gents! I've just played my new DSL40C plugged to my Mesa 4x12 V30s cab. Really amazed that I can feel and touch my guitar tone like that.
> 
> Cos I was totally blown by its current 4x12 set-up, I'm thinking of utilizing the internal speaker of the DSL40C by replacing it with a Greenback to upgrade my rig to a 5x12. I'll plug the 4x12 (8ohm) and DSL40C internal Greenback (8ohms), a total of 16ohms, to Series Box (16ohm) then pop it to the 16 ohm speaker out of the DSL40C.
> 
> Few questions here:
> 1. Is it a good/feasible idea? Will it work?
> 2. Is it worth it in terms of cost and effort?
> 3. Does the tone of the Mesa 4x12 V30s degrade due to the shared circuit with the single DSL40C Greenbacks?
> 4. Does the tone of the DSL40C Amp section degrade in tones due to added impedance/ohms?
> 
> Thanks in advance gents. Any inputs or comments are greatly appreciated. Cheers!



I've got a Greenback in my DSL40C and I pair it up with my 1960a cab with G12T-75s and it sounds amazing (both 16 ohm going into the 8ohm outputs of the DSL). The Greenback is slightly more efficient so it's the main star, but the 4x12 fills out the bass a bit. Love it. Full sounding. My only concern with the V30s are they are extremely efficient and 4 of them will likely overwhelm the Greenback. I had a V30 in the DSL40C and when doing the same thing with the 4x12, you couldn't even hear the cab. All you heard was the single V30.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

I do plan on filling my mg cabs with green backs, had them before in full stack configuration and loved them


----------



## ken361




----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

ken361 said:


> View attachment 49730


Ahhh yes she’s a beaut Ken, brown sugar? Ours has cream plastics, but the same instrument


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Don’t know if you’re using strap locks but highly recommend that you docause I dropped one of mine, luckily it survived


----------



## ken361

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> Ahhh yes she’s a beaut Ken, brown sugar? Ours has cream plastics, but the same instrument


stones song about a black women


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

ken361 said:


> stones song about a black women


I thought you had named the guitar brown sugar


----------



## ken361

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> Ahhh yes she’s a beaut Ken, brown sugar? Ours has cream plastics, but the same instrument


Saw a 4000 dollar one today at GC the binding looked more pronounced maybe thicker?? Maybe more white.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

ken361 said:


> Saw a 4000 dollar one today at GC the binding looked more pronounced maybe thicker?? Maybe more white.


When I was looking for a LP I played a shit load of them, standards, traditionals, studios, all different price ranges, all new , but the one my ears liked best was the tribute series, sounded like it had a over drive pedal in it! So that baby went home with me, got the gold top version, I love it


----------



## ken361

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> When I was looking for a LP I played a shit load of them, standards, traditionals, studios, all different price ranges, all new , but the one my ears liked best was the tribute series, sounded like it had a over drive pedal in it! So that baby went home with me, got the gold top version, I love it


With the Gibson pickups? I had a 1959 model. The custom pro buckers seem a tad lower gain to me maybe since vintage specd


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

ken361 said:


> With the Gibson pickups? I had a 1959 model. The custom pro buckers seem a tad lower gain to me maybe since vintage specd


Mine are the 490 varieties , sound damm good


----------



## ken361

ken361 said:


> Saw a 4000 dollar one today at GC the binding looked more pronounced maybe thicker?? Maybe more white.


I remember now seeing the white binding one and the tinted yellow like mine


----------



## Bownse

Guitar Rod said:


> I've got a Greenback in my DSL40C and I pair it up with my 1960a cab with G12T-75s and it sounds amazing (both 16 ohm going into the 8ohm outputs of the DSL). The Greenback is slightly more efficient so it's the main star, but the 4x12 fills out the bass a bit. Love it. Full sounding. My only concern with the V30s are they are extremely efficient and 4 of them will likely overwhelm the Greenback. I had a V30 in the DSL40C and when doing the same thing with the 4x12, you couldn't even hear the cab. All you heard was the single V30.



When I split out the 40c head from the cab, I used the speakers I had on hand to populate the cab. a Creamback 75 and the OEM 70/80. Together they work well. The Creamback mellows the 70/80 harsh.

I also swapped in Wolftone Dr. Vintage PUs into the LP Trad Pro II which helped it.


----------



## Julien Neverheard

Thank you very much for the inputs gents! I think my current Marshall/Mesa 4x12 set-up is more than enough for now. I'll just use the internal 70/80 during jamming sessions with friend. If ever the time comes, I may still try the 5x12 just to add some flavor.

Just want to share this youtube vid (not mine) I just watched in case you haven't yet. Very nice metal tones from dsl40c. Very hopeful to dig these tones given the fact mine is plugged in a Mesa 4x12.
*Video Credit to Sandwegde Dan


----------



## KraftyBob

Julien Neverheard said:


> Thank you very much for the inputs gents! I think my current Marshall/Mesa 4x12 set-up is more than enough for now. I'll just use the internal 70/80 during jamming sessions with friend. If ever the time comes, I may still try the 5x12 just to add some flavor.
> 
> Just want to share this youtube vid (not mine) I just watched in case you haven't yet. Very nice metal tones from dsl40c. Very hopeful to dig these tones given the fact mine is plugged in a Mesa 4x12.
> *Video Credit to Sandwegde Dan



Gotta love a metal player that wears pink Crocs LOL.

Looks like he's running a Tube Screamer in front, which will tighten the bottom end, as well as active pickups on the ESP. Those will obviously come into play tone wise, but running yours through the Mesa 4x12 should be killer as well. 

I'm still amazed how the DSL40C sounds when you push the volume a little - holy sh!t. A friend of mine brought his teenage son to my house because the kid was bent on getting the loudest amp he could get - because... he's 15. I tried explaining in the simplest way that watts and volume are two different things, but there's talking, and then there's listening! He was absolutely floored how awesome a 40 watt amp with the volume at 4 can sound. He literally wanted to go to GC after they left my house and buy the DSL40CR.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

40c’s rock


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

more DSL40c tone


----------



## MarshallDog

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> 40c’s rock




Sounds great, nice tone man! I love the Jack bottle on the shelf!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow




----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

MarshallDog said:


> Sounds great, nice tone man! I love the Jack bottle on the shelf!


Thanks for taking the time to check it out MD


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Yea that Jack bottle has been sitting up there with a pint can of coors light and an ancient pack of Winston smokes , for a good bit of time, part of the garage decor


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

yes again with the clips, and my trusty 40c’s


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow




----------



## Mitchell Pearrow




----------



## Julien Neverheard

Have anyone tried pulling off some Mesa Rectifier tones in the DSL40C? I know that this amp have distinct killer sound of its own but maybe someone have already tried it. Maybe like running some Mesa overdrive in the effects loop? Just curious because lots of the band I like to cover are using Rectifiers.


----------



## Julien Neverheard

KraftyBob said:


> Gotta love a metal player that wears pink Crocs LOL.
> 
> Looks like he's running a Tube Screamer in front, which will tighten the bottom end, as well as active pickups on the ESP. Those will obviously come into play tone wise, but running yours through the Mesa 4x12 should be killer as well.
> 
> I'm still amazed how the DSL40C sounds when you push the volume a little - holy sh!t. A friend of mine brought his teenage son to my house because the kid was bent on getting the loudest amp he could get - because... he's 15. I tried explaining in the simplest way that watts and volume are two different things, but there's talking, and then there's listening! He was absolutely floored how awesome a 40 watt amp with the volume at 4 can sound. He literally wanted to go to GC after they left my house and buy the DSL40CR.



For me, I even haven't tried clocking the volume past 4 and the gain past 3 for Ch1 Clean. I still live in a quiet zone and will be transferring to a bigger apartment soon. I'm very excited to unleash the DSL40C beast tones there. I've read that it pours sweet juices once cranked up.


----------



## Micky

Julien Neverheard said:


> For me, I even haven't tried clocking the volume past 4 and the gain past 3 for Ch1 Clean. I still live in a quiet zone and will be transferring to a bigger apartment soon. I'm very excited to unleash the DSL40C beast tones there. I've read that it pours sweet juices once cranked up.


You don't know what it is like.
I cranked mine into a full stack after I had modded it for 6550's.
Just to see if I could take it...


----------



## Julien Neverheard

Micky said:


> You don't know what it is like.
> I cranked mine into a full stack after I had modded it for 6550's.
> Just to see if I could take it...


Loool. No plans of pushing the limits. Just want to find the sweet spot both for my gears and for my ears


----------



## KraftyBob

Julien Neverheard said:


> For me, I even haven't tried clocking the volume past 4 and the gain past 3 for Ch1 Clean. I still live in a quiet zone and will be transferring to a bigger apartment soon. I'm very excited to unleash the DSL40C beast tones there. I've read that it pours sweet juices once cranked up.


In my neighborhood our houses are on 1 1/2 acres so being too loud for neighbors is not a problem (I think - they never say anything and I don’t ask). With that the volume in my amp is inversely proportionate to the number of people in my house . So as the population drops to one (me) the volume in my DSL goes up to 5 - which is crazy loud. 

This is a good sounding amp at bedroom levels, but man does this thing come to life when it’s pushed - like hammer pounding you in the head. That’s a good thing . Just wait - you’ll be pleasantly surprised.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

KraftyBob said:


> In my neighborhood our houses are on 1 1/2 acres so being too loud for neighbors is not a problem (I think - they never say anything and I don’t ask). With that the volume in my amp is inversely proportionate to the number of people in my house . So as the population drops to one (me) the volume in my DSL goes up to 5 - which is crazy loud.
> 
> This is a good sounding amp at bedroom levels, but man does this thing come to life when it’s pushed - like hammer pounding you in the head. That’s a good thing . Just wait - you’ll be pleasantly surprised.


I can certainly relate to that, I love mine at 5, but with the SD1 and volume at 2 is damm good as well, this is where I am at all the time


----------



## KraftyBob

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> I can certainly relate to that, I love mine at 5, but with the SD1 and volume at 2 is damm good as well, this is where I am at all the time


So your volume is at 2 when you play with your grandson? Sweet! I have yet to play with a drummer with my amp and I was wondering where it would end up volume-wise. Good to know.

Very cool that you and your grandson play together. My 16 y.o. daughter asked for an Alesis electric drum set for Christmas last year - which of course we bought. I’m trying to convince her to let me record her but she’s said she’s not ready yet. I’d like to get some drums on some tracks I want to record. Hopefully soon. Can’t think of anything better than this.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

KraftyBob said:


> So your volume is at 2 when you play with your grandson? Sweet! I have yet to play with a drummer with my amp and I was wondering where it would end up volume-wise. Good to know.
> 
> Very cool that you and your grandson play together. My 16 y.o. daughter asked for an Alesia electric drum set for Christmas last year - which of course we bought. I’m trying to convince her to let me record her but she’s said she’s not ready yet. I’d like to get some drums on some tracks I want to record. Hopefully soon. Can’t think of anything better than this.


KB when I play with my grandson I am on 5, he hits harder than any drummer I have ever had the pleasure of playing with!! My volume at 2 is when I play by myself,that’s when I use the sd1


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

And yes it is a great time when I get to play with him, in the early 90’s, I use to play with my son, I have been very fortunate to be able to have done this, you and your daughter have a good long time to do the same , cherish every moment. You can thank me later!


----------



## BftGibson

Julien Neverheard said:


> For me, I even haven't tried clocking the volume past 4 and the gain past 3 for Ch1 Clean. I still live in a quiet zone and will be transferring to a bigger apartment soon. I'm very excited to unleash the DSL40C beast tones there. I've read that it pours sweet juices once cranked up.


i am fortunate to be able to play in bedroom, studio and band at same level..my master is dimed all the time and i use 20 watt dimed for messing around...makes for consistent sound wherever i play..and yes get el34 cooking..after 5 it comes alive...they arnt even the same amps..marshall mojo is in the volume


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

more dsl40c noise


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Julien Neverheard said:


> Have anyone tried pulling off some Mesa Rectifier tones in the DSL40C? I know that this amp have distinct killer sound of its own but maybe someone have already tried it. Maybe like running some Mesa overdrive in the effects loop? Just curious because lots of the band I like to cover are using Rectifiers.


JNH when I first gave my grandson one of the 40c’s he had the eq set bass renosence Heavy like,8-9 on the dial with the tone shift in, mids treble presence at 4-3 and you had to be careful not to get muddy, but to my ears it had a mesa vibe going on! YMMV


----------



## StratMatt

Just got a brand new DSL40cr, major problem though, the volume discrepancy between clean & crunch is ridiculous. Is it just my amp, or, has anyone else suffered this?


----------



## Julien Neverheard

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> JNH when I first gave my grandson one of the 40c’s he had the eq set bass renosence Heavy like,8-9 on the dial with the tone shift in, mids treble presence at 4-3 and you had to be careful not to get muddy, but to my ears it had a mesa vibe going on! YMMV


Wow! Can't wait to dial Mesa tones in this beast. But of course, will find the best distinct tones this amp can make.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Julien Neverheard said:


> Wow! Can't wait to dial Mesa tones in this beast. But of course, will find the best distinct tones this amp can make.


I also have to add that he was using a single coil tele


----------



## BftGibson

StratMatt said:


> Just got a brand new DSL40cr, major problem though, the volume discrepancy between clean & crunch is ridiculous. Is it just my amp, or, has anyone else suffered this?


that is the only place i use a pedal..simply use a clean style boost(joyo sweet baby for me) use volume to make it even with other channels..prob solved ...


----------



## StratMatt

BftGibson said:


> that is the only place i use a pedal..simply use a clean style boost(joyo sweet baby for me) use volume to make it even with other channels..prob solved ...


Thanks for the advice. 
I managed to find a few posts relating to the volume issue, seems it’s not just me!
Real shame, as in the other modes I was getting some killer tones, but, I need a useable clean channel. 
Going back to the shop tomorrow.


----------



## BftGibson

StratMatt said:


> Thanks for the advice.
> I managed to find a few posts relating to the volume issue, seems it’s not just me!
> Real shame, as in the other modes I was getting some killer tones, but, I need a useable clean channel.
> Going back to the shop tomorrow.


i almost gave up on this amp causeof this..but this now is my main amp and i have a plexi,5150iii,jcm900..this dsl can do it all..the joyo sweet baby does not color the sound at all and the clean is really really good..enjoy man..you got a great amp...also use those pres & res knobs to really dial in your sound....we are in the studio now and my engineer is floored by this amp...every amp known to man is in the studio and we put this up against it...and it more than holds its own..it seems to have every classic marshall in it and also will touch on modern sounds...i am going to gig mine up and down the east cost at the end of the year...i am floored that i got all the sounds in 1 amp..almost thought i needed another to compliment...but i did spend 3 months learning it and putting other amps with it and dialing in similar sounds


----------



## StratMatt

BftGibson said:


> i almost gave up on this amp causeof this..but this now is my main amp and i have a plexi,5150iii,jcm900..this dsl can do it all..the joyo sweet baby does not color the sound at all and the clean is really really good..enjoy man..you got a great amp...also use those pres & res knobs to really dial in your sound....we are in the studio now and my engineer is floored by this amp...every amp known to man is in the studio and we put this up against it...and it more than holds its own..it seems to have every classic marshall in it and also will touch on modern sounds...i am going to gig mine up and down the east cost at the end of the year...i am floored that i got all the sounds in 1 amp..almost thought i needed another to compliment...but i did spend 3 months learning it and putting other amps with it and dialing in similar sounds


I really appreciate your reply, but, I play in a covers band, and, having to kill a boost midsong when changing to crunch or OD, is just a step (!) too far. I really like the crunch mode, and OD1 sounds great right out the box, but I have to have a no nonsense clean option.


----------



## Micky

If you have the new CR version, you can easily set the MV's to wherever you need it and either use the extra footswitch or midi to switch.


----------



## BftGibson

Micky said:


> If you have the new CR version, you can easily set the MV's to wherever you need it and either use the extra footswitch or midi to switch.





StratMatt said:


> I really appreciate your reply, but, I play in a covers band, and, having to kill a boost midsong when changing to crunch or OD, is just a step (!) too far. I really like the crunch mode, and OD1 sounds great right out the box, but I have to have a no nonsense clean option.


you can assign the MV to compensate for that also, but i do understand your position. It is jus frustrating when that delay happens and with a vol drop off....if there was 1 weak point in this amp it is that. Sorta makes no sense that the clean(green) really is that low compared to red on same channel. But you can assign the MV to compensate.


----------



## StratMatt

Micky said:


> If you have the new CR version, you can easily set the MV's to wherever you need it and either use the extra footswitch or midi to switch.


I get what you’re saying, but that wipes out the usefulness of having a MV that can be set for solo boosts. 
The amp is being returned to the retailer today.


----------



## jericbrazier

solarburnDSL50 said:


> that L2 can get all kinds of sounds set right. Most players dismiss it as too saturated. And miss the gold.


I play lead 2 with gain set at 11 o’clock. Both my main guitars have pretty hot humbuckers in them, and (with some volume) this setting really cooks. All my eq settings are hovering between 11 and 1, and presence at 9 o’clock and the resonance off. 
Later today I’ll try the volume all the way up and gain as volume. Interested to hear the results.


----------



## jericbrazier

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> Jericbrazier you’re going to love your LP through your 40C


It’s nectar to my ears, and butter under my fingers. How did I go so long without a Lester and a Marshall together? I’m a happy camper.


----------



## BftGibson

StratMatt said:


> I get what you’re saying, but that wipes out the usefulness of having a MV that can be set for solo boosts.
> The amp is being returned to the retailer today.


was thinking about this...for clean i dont use clean channel anyway..i roll guitar vol and tone to liking... then sorta like marshall anyway...1 channel is almost all ya need and use guitar to shape tone


----------



## jericbrazier

solarburnDSL50 said:


> 3's solid too. And yeah I love the way the power section opens up...


Totally, when I’m turning the volume I can hear that point where it opens up, it’s a big change. On mine pushing 3 is where that happens. At home, that’s still pretty loud. So I got a Alchemy GE7, and put it in the loop. I keep the sliders neutral, and lower the volume slider almost all the way. It’s kind of a poor man’s attenuator.


----------



## jericbrazier

ken361 said:


> Liking lead 2 with the Creamback! Played the Bogner La Grange Plexi pedal through the DSL40 at GC clean channel it was pretty nice! Might have to get one


I have the Bogner Red, and it sounds killer through my dsl40c.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

jericbrazier said:


> It’s nectar to my ears, and butter under my fingers. How did I go so long without a Lester and a Marshall together? I’m a happy camper.


Cool bro, I told you that you were going to like it, I do love mine


----------



## jericbrazier

StratMatt said:


> Thanks for the advice.
> I managed to find a few posts relating to the volume issue, seems it’s not just me!
> Real shame, as in the other modes I was getting some killer tones, but, I need a useable clean channel.
> Going back to the shop tomorrow.


Just an idea, since you can’t change the modes within the channel with a footswitch, set the crunch where you like it, and ride your guitar’s volume. IMO, there’s not a better sub $1k dollar amp around.


----------



## jericbrazier

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> Cool bro, I told you that you were going to like it, I do love mine


Couldn’t be happier. Plus my dsl40c is finally biased where I want it. It sounds great!


----------



## KraftyBob

jericbrazier said:


> Couldn’t be happier. Plus my dsl40c is finally biased where I want it. It sounds great!


What is your Bias setting?


----------



## jericbrazier

KraftyBob said:


> What is your Bias setting?


35mv


----------



## ken361

jericbrazier said:


> I have the Bogner Red, and it sounds killer through my dsl40c.


use to have the red and blue


----------



## ken361

I like these guys, Zeppelin influenced great tones from the marshall.Sometimes his voice is a little too much though


----------



## Mark Tomlinson

Greetings - I tried several searches here on this topic, but didn't quite find a specific answer. I am putting together a wet-dry-wet rig with the DSL40C at the center/dry position and I'm curious about the emulated output. Is it TS (mono) or TRS (mono) or TRS (stereo) output? This will have some impact on the signal routing as you might imagine.

Thanks in advance,

-mt


----------



## Micky

40C has no emulated output...


----------



## Mark Tomlinson

Sorry Micky - it's the new DSL40CR 

From the manual: "32. EMULATED OUT Emulated line level output for headphones or connection to a mixer. The DSL is equipped with a high quality emulated output using Softube-designed studio cabinet emulation. This ensures that your headphone and output signal from this socket provide the best possible tone for practice or recording."

From seeing the phrase "headphones" there, I'm assuming it's a very low wattage TRS stereo output.


----------



## KraftyBob

ken361 said:


> I like these guys, Zeppelin influenced great tones from the marshall.Sometimes his voice is a little too much though



I think there's some Hendrix influence with the singer too


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Mark Tomlinson said:


> Greetings - I tried several searches here on this topic, but didn't quite find a specific answer. I am putting together a wet-dry-wet rig with the DSL40C at the center/dry position and I'm curious about the emulated output. Is it TS (mono) or TRS (mono) or TRS (stereo) output? This will have some impact on the signal routing as you might imagine.
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> -mt


The member here you would want to talk to is Zachman, not real sure on amps and gear you have, but this is my humble opinion, First get a quality ABY box, all amps should have efx loops, run your instrument lead ito the box, 2 instrument leads from ABY 2 amps(wet dry) from your wet amp use another instrument cable, efx loop send to instrument in . Put your efx in the loop of the 3’rd amp


----------



## jericbrazier

ken361 said:


> use to have the red and blue


What did you think? What kind of music do you play?


----------



## ken361

jericbrazier said:


> What did you think? What kind of music do you play?


liked them a lot through a fender blues deluxe with a eminence GB greenback type speaker. Very amp like. The Lagrange seems really nice and has high gain also so it kind of covers both pedal possibility. I like mostly classic rock to 80's metal


----------



## jericbrazier

ken361 said:


> liked them a lot through a fender blues deluxe with a eminence GB greenback type speaker. Very amp like. The Lagrange seems really nice and has high gain also so it kind of covers both pedal possibility. I like mostly classic rock to 80's metal


Mine goes through a dsl40c, and I’ve used it with my el84 Mesa. IMO, it sounds waaay better through the Marshall than the Mesa. 
It’s very amp like. I’d bet if someone wasn’t told it was a pedal they wouldn’t be able to tell.
I’ve had quite a few aiab’s and distortion pedals, and I haven’t played one that is more dynamic and touch sensitive than the Red. I haven’t tried the Blue or LaGrange, but I can’t imagine either being any different.
The Red’s tone is actually quite similar to the Marshall’s. Admittedly, at bedroom volumes the Red absolutely slays the amp, but when I can put the dsl’s master above 2.5 or so, the Marshall sounds better. I’ve done some mods to it though. I put an Eminence Swamp Thang in it, and I have Mullard RI el34s powering her. In a band setting, tonal bliss. Cuts like crazy.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

And Mark keep the 3’rd amp clean your 2’nd amp that is wet will color the third, and don’t worry about matching volumes just turn the 3’rd amp up as high or higher than #2 , #2 will control its volume via the effects loop send, hope this makes sense. It is how I am doing this


----------



## Mark Tomlinson

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> And Mark keep the 3’rd amp clean your 2’nd amp that is wet will color the third, and don’t worry about matching volumes just turn the 3’rd amp up as high or higher than #2 , #2 will control its volume via the effects loop send, hope this makes sense. It is how I am doing this



Thanks for your advice on the Wed/Dry rig. For my current setup I have 3 amps:
1 x DSL40CR - with effects loop
2 x Master Studio Lead combos - no effects loop

My thought was that I have my front-end pedals (PITCH, TONE, MOD) going into the center (dry) DSL40CR. Then I take the emulated output from the DSL40CR out into the delay & reverb (TIME) pedals which have stereo output. But there are 3 ideas for reflection:

- I can't take the DSL40 effects send only...without putting something back into the return. I could use a Y-cable split w 2 male and 1 female jack?
- the "emulated out" from the DSL40 includes speaker emulation...which I don't need for the MSL's, so that might sound weird
- I might need to bus the stereo output from the DSL40 and put it back into a mono input on the pedal board, which is not a big deal

Cheers!

-mt


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

No problem brother, I was just giving you the heads up on how I am going about this


----------



## ken361

Got the les Paul dialed in today,lowered the pole pieces on the 6th and 5th string on the bridge pup by one whole turn to give me a tad more bite and pintch harmonics. Lots of dynamic range on the probuckers! Even the clean channel was really nice and more so with the split coils wow! And loud too. The Ruby power tubes still strong at over a year old.I stand like 15 feet away to really hear the amp to see how it sounds bright or not.


----------



## ken361

Didn't even get into boosting yet today,Creamback is nice and tight!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

ken361 said:


> Didn't even get into boosting yet today,Creamback is nice and tight!


Cheers Ken , I have to believe you have her dialed in now, I just got home from work and I am going to do a set up on 2 of my fiddles today


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

more of my dsl40c


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

here is another sloppy bit of my Melody’s in my head, 2 dsl40c’s and a lead 100 mosfet , with a LP thanks in advance for your time to listen to this


----------



## ken361

Saw a good band lastnight one les Paul and a LTD guitars


----------



## Bownse

Mark Tomlinson said:


> Sorry Micky - it's the new DSL40CR
> 
> From the manual: "32. EMULATED OUT Emulated line level output for headphones or connection to a mixer. The DSL is equipped with a high quality emulated output using Softube-designed studio cabinet emulation. This ensures that your headphone and output signal from this socket provide the best possible tone for practice or recording."
> 
> From seeing the phrase "headphones" there, I'm assuming it's a very low wattage TRS stereo output.



Not everyone in this thread will have CR experience. It's also an exceedingly long thread. That's why the thread here

http://www.marshallforum.com/threads/the-official-marshall-dsl40cr-information-thread.100006/

was started. Focused on the CR with what makes it unique and where people with CR experience can avoid assumptions.


----------



## Michaeld13

Hi all. Been a while since I've posted just been jamming and working! But just wanted to mention that I tried the 40cr on two back to back weekends trying to like it over my stock 40c and found it very "sterile" I guess is the right word. Sure the 40c has some "issues" but when it's dialed in for a certain sound its just so touch sensitive and lively. I just could not get the new amp to sound anything like the old one. They really are very different amps. It seems everyone praises the new one, am I missing something?


----------



## Micky

No, you aren't missing anything.
It has a different speaker, it just sounds different.

Best to stick with the original...


----------



## Clifdawg

Michaeld13 said:


> Hi all. Been a while since I've posted just been jamming and working! But just wanted to mention that I tried the 40cr on two back to back weekends trying to like it over my stock 40c and found it very "sterile" I guess is the right word. Sure the 40c has some "issues" but when it's dialed in for a certain sound its just so touch sensitive and lively. I just could not get the new amp to sound anything like the old one. They really are very different amps. It seems everyone praises the new one, am I missing something?



You're not the only one. I had played a DSL40CR pretty extensively one day just to see what the fuss was about and found it rather difficult to dial in. Sounded great, but didn't do anything I felt like I couldn't already get out of my Boss Katana 100 (except bass response, but that's probably more to do with cabinet sizes than anything else). When the older C model dropped to 399 on Sweetwater, I figured it was worth the plunge and bought one. I much prefer the C, especially at home and bedroom volumes. Yeah, the treble is a little tough to tame (thinking about swapping speakers to help with that), but the overall "fullness" of sound is incredible. I originally intended to keep the Katana as a home amp; I sold it a couple of weeks after the C arrived home.


----------



## ken361

Michaeld13 said:


> Hi all. Been a while since I've posted just been jamming and working! But just wanted to mention that I tried the 40cr on two back to back weekends trying to like it over my stock 40c and found it very "sterile" I guess is the right word. Sure the 40c has some "issues" but when it's dialed in for a certain sound its just so touch sensitive and lively. I just could not get the new amp to sound anything like the old one. They really are very different amps. It seems everyone praises the new one, am I missing something?


Na I heard that also even Rebea from Andertons prefers the old ones also


----------



## Seventh Son

Clifdawg said:


> You're not the only one. I had played a DSL40CR pretty extensively one day just to see what the fuss was about and found it rather difficult to dial in. Sounded great, but didn't do anything I felt like I couldn't already get out of my Boss Katana 100 (except bass response, but that's probably more to do with cabinet sizes than anything else). When the older C model dropped to 399 on Sweetwater, I figured it was worth the plunge and bought one. I much prefer the C, especially at home and bedroom volumes. Yeah, the treble is a little tough to tame (thinking about swapping speakers to help with that), but the overall "fullness" of sound is incredible. I originally intended to keep the Katana as a home amp; I sold it a couple of weeks after the C arrived home.


I agree with you that the treble is a bit hard to tame on the C series, but it is by no means impossible. Barring a speaker swap, it can be done with careful settings on the EQ. I keep Treble and Presence at 2, and when I record, I stay away from the center of the speaker and also lower gain a little bit, which usually does the trick. This forum also abounds with people who have replaced the speaker with a Greenback and had nothing but positive things to report. It seems that after replacing the speaker with something like the Greenback, you can be much more liberal in your use of treble and presence.


----------



## Clifdawg

Seventh Son said:


> This forum also abounds with people who replaced the speaker with a Greenback and had nothing but positive things to report. It seems that after replacing the speaker with something like the Greenback, you can be much more liberal in your use of treble and presence.



Good to know. Thanks for the input... I've been eyeing the Eminence Private Jack for this reason; Greenback voicing with a higher wattage handling. I'm also not opposed to the WGS ET65 or Invader 50, either. Hard to know what to jump for without actually hearing them in the room.


----------



## Seventh Son

I listened to Johan Segeborn's Greenback S, M, and H model comparison today, and think that the M model is a very classic and safe choice, based on the Youtube comparison.


----------



## solarburn

Seventh Son said:


> I agree with you that the treble is a bit hard to tame on the C series, but it is not far from impossible. Barring a speaker swap, it can be done with careful settings on the EQ. I keep Treble and Presence at 2, and when I record, I stay away from the center of the speaker and also lower gain a little bit, which usually does the trick. This forum also abounds with people who have replaced the speaker with a Greenback and had nothing but positive things to report. It seems that after replacing the speaker with something like the Greenback, you can be much more liberal in your use of treble and presence.



I still have the 70/80 in mine and think it kills! Jus pup changes. No channel bouncing.


----------



## Guitar Rod

I'm running a Greenback in mine. Great sound. Pure classic rock. Still wary to crank it in 40w mode. Run in triode when I want to get loud. Or split the wattage between my cab and the Greenback. Anyone run one loud at 40w?


----------



## Angus Rhoads

I prefer the C to the CR too. I had played the new ones a couple of times in different stores but wasn't hearing anything better than my old one (currently with a V30 in it).


----------



## solarburn

Guitar Rod said:


> I'm running a Greenback in mine. Great sound. Pure classic rock. Still wary to crank it in 40w mode. Run in triode when I want to get loud. Or split the wattage between my cab and the Greenback. Anyone run one loud at 40w?



I've put mine into a 412 of G12M's and it sounded like a stud Marshall.


----------



## solarburn

This amp takes pedals well...


----------



## solarburn

And why are we getting defensive over models? I haven't even heard a clip of the new CR. Must mean diddle. Unless someone poots a clip here...of the new gen...


----------



## solarburn

Regular C.


----------



## solarburn




----------



## solarburn

Or...


----------



## solarburn

.


----------



## Clifdawg

Did some jamming last night.... I'll see anyone who says that the DSL40C can't do good tones at home-friendly volumes and raise them these tones here:


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

solarburnDSL50 said:


> And why are we getting defensive over models? I haven't even heard a clip of the new CR. Must mean diddle. Unless someone poots a clip here...of the new gen...


There is one , a Metallica cover by Mathias 78,


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

solarburnDSL50 said:


> And why are we getting defensive over models? I haven't even heard a clip of the new CR. Must mean diddle. Unless someone poots a clip here...of the new gen...


Seek and destroy is from Mathias78 it’s a cr


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

His is the only clip I can recall


----------



## solarburn

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> Seek and destroy is from Mathias78 it’s a cr



my bad and I listened to it. Sounded great!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Same here, I wanna hear mor though!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Clifdawg said:


> Did some jamming last night.... I'll see anyone who says that the DSL40C can't do good tones at home-friendly volumes and raise them these tones here:



That was damm good, tone for days, I like it and want to hear more! Were you going straight in? Or did you use a pedal?


----------



## Clifdawg

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> Were you going straight in? Or did you use a pedal?



Thanks for the kind words! Going straight in. The SG has the really hot 495r and 495t "firebird" pickups, which are kinda junk for cleans, but really have some mojo with the Ultra gain. My settings are:
Ultra gain/Lead 2 - Gain 9-10 o'clock - Volume 9 o'clock - Bass 3 o'clock - Mids dimed - Treble 9 o'clock - Tone Shift off - Presence 9 o'clock - Resonance 3 o'clock - Reverb/Ultra noon.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

QUOTE="Clifdawg, post: 1744694, member: 53583"]Thanks for the kind words! Going straight in. The SG has the really hot 495r and 495t "firebird" pickups, which are kinda junk for cleans, but really have some mojo with the Ultra gain. My settings are:
Ultra gain/Lead 2 - Gain 9-10 o'clock - Volume 9 o'clock - Bass 3 o'clock - Mids dimed - Treble 9 o'clock - Tone Shift off - Presence 9 o'clock - Resonance 3 o'clock - Reverb/Ultra noon.[/QUOTE]
 Cool bro thanks for the quick response, my SG is the faded, one of my favorite guitars, I littered this thread and , the show me your riffs thread, with a bunch of clips, mostly on my SG


----------



## Angus Rhoads

solarburnDSL50 said:


> And why are we getting defensive over models? I haven't even heard a clip of the new CR. Must mean diddle. Unless someone poots a clip here...of the new gen...


Not a defensive thing, really, didn't mean to imply that the CR doesn't sound good, just different. Feels different too. For me CR is not as raw and in your face as the C - seems smoother and more "modern", not sure how much of that would come across in audio clips tho. If anything it seems like they've moved it more in the direction of the JVM, which is cool but I already have a JVM combo so I like that the old model is a little different from that. Enough of a difference that I like having both, but I could not see the point in having both the JVM and CR, ya know?


----------



## solarburn

Angus Rhoads said:


> Not a defensive thing, really, didn't mean to imply that the CR doesn't sound good, just different. Feels different too. For me CR is not as raw and in your face as the C - seems smoother and more "modern", not sure how much of that would come across in audio clips tho. If anything it seems like they've moved it more in the direction of the JVM, which is cool but I already have a JVM combo so I like that the old model is a little different from that. Enough of a difference that I like having both, but I could not see the point in having both the JVM and CR, ya know?



Well there you go. A description of what you meant! I need all the help I can get.


----------



## BftGibson

DSL40cr..no pedals..Ultra chan.red.gain on 4,master dimed, vol dimed 40 watt setting,,.B-4 M-4.T4, pres.7 res6..2017 Gibson Firebird studio 496/500..non mixed demo song 7 out of studio, gt 75, v30 & V type mic'd


----------



## solarburn

Clifdawg said:


> Did some jamming last night.... I'll see anyone who says that the DSL40C can't do good tones at home-friendly volumes and raise them these tones here:




love it!


----------



## solarburn

BftGibson said:


> DSL40cr..no pedals..Ultra chan.red.gain on 4,master dimed, vol dimed 40 watt setting,,.B-4 M-4.T4, pres.7 res6..2017 Gibson Firebird studio 496/500..non mixed demo song 7 out of studio, gt 75, v30 & V type mic'd




good gawd bro! That hurt...in a good way!


----------



## BftGibson

solarburnDSL50 said:


> good gawd bro! That hurt...in a good way!


ihad one of those days and droped it down to C for the first time in years and some aggression came out, tired of bein pushed to the brink these days, lol


----------



## solarburn

BftGibson said:


> ihad one of those days and droped it down to C for the first time in years and some aggression came out, tired of bein pushed to the brink these days, lol



It showed! And I liked it.


----------



## solarburn

BftGibson said:


> DSL40cr..no pedals..Ultra chan.red.gain on 4,master dimed, vol dimed 40 watt setting,,.B-4 M-4.T4, pres.7 res6..2017 Gibson Firebird studio 496/500..non mixed demo song 7 out of studio, gt 75, v30 & V type mic'd




kicked ass!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

I have more dsl40c tones, pollution, however any one would like to categorize it ! Enjoy, and thanks in advance for your time to check it out


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

When I learn how to record like Coronado. They will sound great!!!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

more dsl40c tones


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

This is the correct one


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Here is a bit of dsl40c/strat noise


----------



## ken361

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> Here is a bit of dsl40c/strat noise



Any Trower there?


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

ken361 said:


> Any Trower there?


Thanks for taking the time to check it out, I wish I could play as well as Trower, but that’s what I was aiming for


----------



## ken361

So ya digging the Origin huh are you goosing it with any pedals?


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

ken361 said:


> So ya digging the Origin huh are you goosing it with any pedals?


No with the origin I am still going straight in, but I did try out the effects loop with the supplied foot switch, first for me for using it the way you are supposed to, sounds really good


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

On the clip , the path I used the vox tone lab, with delay and univibe, but it is still with a pair of 40c’s going into the front of the amp!


----------



## coyote

Guitar Rod said:


> I'm running a Greenback in mine. Great sound. Pure classic rock. Still wary to crank it in 40w mode. Run in triode when I want to get loud. Or split the wattage between my cab and the Greenback. Anyone run one loud at 40w?


I’m running it 40w into a Creamback in the 40c, plus an old 2x12 with greenbacks. It can get VERY loud


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

more dsl40c tones


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

this is my 40c’s trying to get the Robin Trower tones


----------



## Micky

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> this is my 40c’s trying to get the Robin Trower tones



Turn your phone sideways


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Micky said:


> Turn your phone sideways


Ok but in order for it to stand I have been putting it in a roll of duct tape


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Need to figure out a new method, I will get back to you


----------



## K2JLX

coyote said:


> I’m running it 40w into a Creamback in the 40c, plus an old 2x12 with greenbacks. It can get VERY loud



Yes, 40w is no joke, loud as hell, even more so with high sensitivity speakers. I run my Origin 50 at 0.5 w into a 4x12 and it’s still pretty darn loud.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Here you go Micky, I turned it sideways, but changed Strats and the name of the song is what was on top of my head, just a bit of something more to come , once it gets worked out


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Not finished yet but just a tad bit better than before, still working on it, but once again a pair of 40’cs I do hope my brother’s like it


----------



## Exojam

Damn, closing in on one thousand posts on this amp!


----------



## Micky

Exojam said:


> Damn, closing in on one thousand posts on this amp!


That is a testament to the users. What an incredible thread even if I do say so myself...


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Micky said:


> That is a testament to the users. What an incredible thread even if I do say so myself...


Oh yes , when I first started reading it it was only 300+- pages! And keep checking on it all the time, and go back and refresh my memory on certain topics


----------



## coyote

I found a sweet spot for this amp - for my tastes. Not perfect, but definitely good enough to make both channels very usable and delicious. I might still one day try the C19 mod, but at the moment it’s turning out to be unnecessary.

Classic: Crunch, gain 5, vol 6
Ultra: Lead 1, gain 1.5, vol 5.2 or so
Treble 4
Mids 5
Bass 6.5
ToneShift off
Presence 5.5
Resonance 7.5
Reverbs off

I have a separate reverb pedal in the amp’s effect loop. I’m using a compressor with a ‘blend’ knob upfront just to enhance sustain a bit. I also have a Boss boost in-line after the comp, but that is not always on.

Btw, it’s LOUD. Fortunately, we like it that way.


----------



## KraftyBob

Micky said:


> That is a testament to the users. What an incredible thread even if I do say so myself...


...Which is why it would have been nice for the DSL40C to have it's own forum under "The Amps" section and not just a single thread under "Marshall Amps". I love that there's all this information and great contributions by the community, but it's nearly impossible to do a decent search as every result has the title "The Official Marshall DSL40C Information Thread" and not the actual subject your looking for. Plus topics get crossed all the time when people respond to a comment at different times so even that can be hard to follow.

If it had it's own forum, then the threads would be broken out more by topic, e.g. "What speaker do you recommend", or "which tubes eliminate the most noise", etc. Then when you did a search that thread would be easily identifiable.

OK - I'm done with my rant. I've learned more here in the last year that I've been on this forum than in years of playing. We can't go back and change it so let's blow *10,000* posts out of the water. (Good catch Angus)


----------



## Angus Rhoads

Exojam said:


> Damn, closing in on one thousand posts on this amp!


I will admit that math was not my best subject in school, but I believe the post count is actually closing in on TEN thousand. Even more amazing.


----------



## Micky

Angus Rhoads said:


> I will admit that math was not my best subject in school, but I believe the post count is actually closing in on TEN thousand. Even more amazing.


Freakin' math genius!


----------



## Angus Rhoads

Micky said:


> Freakin' math genius!


Hell of a thread you started Micky (hell of an amp, too). I think you should have the honor of making post #10,000 (let that sink in for a minute) so I pledge that when I see the post count is at 9999 I will not post anything until you've had a chance to chime in.


----------



## KraftyBob

Angus Rhoads said:


> Hell of a thread you started Micky (hell of an amp, too). I think you should have the honor of making post #10,000 (let that sink in for a minute) so I pledge that when I see the post count is at 9999 I will not post anything until you've had a chance to chime in.


I second that.


----------



## Exojam

As you can tell I suck at math and amp repair!


----------



## Micky

Angus Rhoads said:


> Hell of a thread you started Micky (hell of an amp, too). I think you should have the honor of making post #10,000 (let that sink in for a minute) so I pledge that when I see the post count is at 9999 I will not post anything until you've had a chance to chime in.


Thanks for that, but honestly this is youse guys thread.
DirtySteve should have started it, as he had one right outta the box when they were released.

Ah, those were the good old days.

Many of you weren't here for the 6100 thread, which was larger than this one.
Lots of great guys in that thread, it certainly was much more epic than this one.
A lot of guys were insulted when that one was deleted, some left this place.
MartyStrat lost 5000 posts when that one got nuked.

There is a lot of history here that is being deleted. Enjoy this while you still can...


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

I have no problem with this thread the first time I came about it was a google search on Marshall amps, I was trying to find what model amp I used to have. I found it and this thread was (recommended) and I jumped in


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

I also as a lurker  went backwards and started reading posts from the beginning to new, on the tone zone, guitars, Marshall amps, cellar, backstage, Ect Ect. I finally joined. And this is the only forum I have joined, love it here


----------



## KraftyBob

I have a thread in the Cabinets and Speakers Forum about the headless MG250DFX that I refurbished and converted to a 1x12 for my DSL40C. I have the Creamback in the DSL and put a G12T-75 in the external cab. Tonight I did a recording comparing the speakers, and while I posted it there, I thought I'd do the same here as there's obviously more DSL40C traffic here. It's recorded with a Samson Go Mic so it's not the most accurate replication of the tone, but I think it captures the differences well enough. Also, I could only record the OD with the volume at 1 so the amp isn't really breathing at this point. There's more detail in the description on YouTube.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

Speaking of the 40C... after rocking a V30 in mine for a few months, tonight I decided (mostly out of boredom) to swap in my Lynchback that has been sitting in a closet for a couple of years. Now, back when I had tried it in the 40C the first time I liked it but didn't love it. Maybe my hearing has changed, or it's the different acoustics in our new house, but I am LOVING this amp & speaker combo now. Like, match-made-in-Heaven loving it, would still be paying at this late hour if the kids weren't in bed. Anyone who has tried different speakers with this amp and is still looking for the right one, highly recommend giving the LB a try. Ironically, though, it doesn't sound anything like George Lynch to me, but that's a topic for another day...


----------



## Exojam

Any idea of why threads and posts are being deleted?


----------



## Bownse

Creating space on the host server?


----------



## ken361

just retubed the preamp with all JJ the 3 stocks were silver plated and one grey like the JJ's,didn't realize there was one in there. The grey plated are slightly warmer on the top end , just played at lower volumes and will crank it Saturday. The crunch channel is louder now, must of had a weaker tube in the chain.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

ken361 said:


> just retubed the preamp with all JJ the 3 stocks were silver plated and one grey like the JJ's,didn't realize there was one in there. The grey plated are slightly warmer on the top end , just played at lower volumes and will crank it Saturday. The crunch channel is louder now, must of had a weaker tube in the chain.


Ken my brother I put a ruby in v1 and a sovteck in v2 about a year ago! I have a hard time hearing much of a difference between the two, as one is still completely stock, but I have also changed power tubes in the one with the one I changed the pres. with, all of this is just so I could see if there was much difference. But I gotta say they do sound glorious


----------



## ken361

I rolled so many tubes over the years old stock and new stuff then one day I decided to try all the same tubes I usually retube right away and never cared for JJ pre's or sovteks and chinese but this responded with gain and thickness with the stock preamp tubes. I used old stock tubes usually to tame new production amps. Morgan amps said some amps are designed around those tubes JJ that is and i believe so

Used Tungsol for a V1, RFT,Sylvania's "
smooth tubes" Mullard for a bit UK while it lasted,LPS Sovtek for a PI tube ect..


----------



## Angus Rhoads

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> Ken my brother I put a ruby in v1 and a sovteck in v2 about a year ago! I have a hard time hearing much of a difference between the two, as one is still completely stock, but I have also changed power tubes in the one with the one I changed the pres. with, all of this is just so I could see if there was much difference. But I gotta say they do sound glorious


HMP - I agree, differences in preamp tubes can be pretty subtle but it also depends on the amp (some are more responsive to different tubes than others). That said, there are two types that I have several of from the late-90s and that consistently make a noticeable difference to me (not huge but noticeable) so I use them every time: MESA SPAX7 in the V1 spot and Sovtek LPS in the PI spot. The MESA gives the gain a crunchier texture and the Sovtek seems to improve responsiveness (so more of a change in feel than tone). Both are still sold but I bought mine over 20 years ago and I'm not sure if the newer ones deliver the same results, though.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Angus Rhoads said:


> HMP - I agree, differences in preamp tubes can be pretty subtle but it also depends on the amp (some are more responsive to different tubes than others). That said, there are two types that I have several of from the late-90s and that consistently make a noticeable difference to me (not huge but noticeable) so I use them every time: MESA SPAX7 in the V1 spot and Sovtek LPS in the PI spot. The MESA gives the gain a crunchier texture and the Sovtek seems to improve responsiveness (so more of a change in feel than tone). Both are still sold but I bought mine over 20 years ago and I'm not sure if the newer ones deliver the same results, though.


 I have never purchased any NOS tubes, only current production, my ears are probably fatigued, from all the years of being in the construction field, but I gotta say I like what I am hearing


----------



## Exojam

Micky, 

Did state somewhere in this thread that you converted your 40C to use 6L6 tubes or was that someone else (or is brain screwed up again)?

Thanks


----------



## Micky

Exojam said:


> Micky,
> 
> Did state somewhere in this thread that you converted your 40C to use 6L6 tubes or was that someone else (or is brain screwed up again)?
> 
> Thanks


I converted mine to use 6550's. 6L6's are for Fenders...


----------



## KraftyBob

Angus Rhoads said:


> HMP - I agree, differences in preamp tubes can be pretty subtle but it also depends on the amp (some are more responsive to different tubes than others). That said, there are two types that I have several of from the late-90s and that consistently make a noticeable difference to me (not huge but noticeable) so I use them every time: MESA SPAX7 in the V1 spot and Sovtek LPS in the PI spot. The MESA gives the gain a crunchier texture and the Sovtek seems to improve responsiveness (so more of a change in feel than tone). Both are still sold but I bought mine over 20 years ago and I'm not sure if the newer ones deliver the same results, though.


I'm in the "I don't hear a difference camp". Maybe I was expecting too much and when there wasn't a significant change with tubes I was disappointed? I have the Mesa SPAX7 in V1 and to be honest it doesn't sound any different that the stock tubes. I just don't know what all the fuss is about.

I've had my DSL for almost a year now and am starting to hear a slight ring/glassy jingle when I play an A chord. Not hearing it with any other chords. I haven't opened the back to check yet but thinking since it's only the A chord maybe a tube is loose and that frequency is causing vibration? As a plan B I started thinking about re-tubing so I've been looking at prices online. I just can't see spending the extra money for "better" tubes when I personally hear no difference. 

In lieu of having two identical amps side by side with different tubes, maybe I have to start recording before and after and see if there's a difference? But then again, if it's not noticeable enough where I have to listen to recordings then to me it's not worth the extra price. 

Perhaps someone can enlighten me on what I'm missing?


----------



## ken361

put all tungsols in and see how much brighter it is lol, there is some difference in tubes some are warm and some are bright. If you have a bright amp the old stock one's are warmer and smoother most of the time. With the dsl I like the JJ there pretty aggressive. Play loud and I can tell theres some difference and some can pick up on that but its not going change the amps DNA it just EQ's it slightly. Like I said todays amps are designed around the stock tubes in some cases.


----------



## Exojam

Did you like the change and did you document how you did it? Thanks.


----------



## ken361

KraftyBob said:


> I'm in the "I don't hear a difference camp". Maybe I was expecting too much and when there wasn't a significant change with tubes I was disappointed? I have the Mesa SPAX7 in V1 and to be honest it doesn't sound any different that the stock tubes. I just don't know what all the fuss is about.
> 
> I've had my DSL for almost a year now and am starting to hear a slight ring/glassy jingle when I play an A chord. Not hearing it with any other chords. I haven't opened the back to check yet but thinking since it's only the A chord maybe a tube is loose and that frequency is causing vibration? As a plan B I started thinking about re-tubing so I've been looking at prices online. I just can't see spending the extra money for "better" tubes when I personally hear no difference.
> 
> In lieu of having two identical amps side by side with different tubes, maybe I have to start recording before and after and see if there's a difference? But then again, if it's not noticeable enough where I have to listen to recordings then to me it's not worth the extra price.
> 
> Perhaps someone can enlighten me on what I'm missing?


 That Mesa is just a chinese tube wrapped up for microphonics , chinese can be a tad bright and harsh I wont use them at all in the dsl or most amps unless its a high grade Ruby maybe.


----------



## ken361

Exojam said:


> Did you like the change and did you document how you did it? Thanks.


seem a little less bright, i know someone else stated the same thing when he had one Lagrassa was his name on here. I asked Eurotubes they said they were slightly warmer than the stock tubes


----------



## Exojam

ken361 said:


> seem a little less bright, i know someone else stated the same thing when he had one Lagrassa was his name on here. I asked Eurotubes they said they were slightly warmer than the stock tubes


Thank you.


----------



## Micky

Exojam said:


> Did you like the change and did you document how you did it? Thanks.


Yes. It is in the Workbench section:
http://www.marshallforum.com/threads/6550-power-tubes-in-a-dsl40c.79352/


----------



## Exojam

Micky said:


> Yes. It is in the Workbench section:
> http://www.marshallforum.com/threads/6550-power-tubes-in-a-dsl40c.79352/


Thank you very much!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

I purchased my ruby, sovteck, pre’s from a local mom and pop music store. I have known the owner for as long as I have lived here in Mo Val. And I think his tubes were all 90’s production, I put them in one of our 40c’s and can play side by side with a stock unit, they both sound great, I didn’t pull them just left them in . Just did it to say I had rolled a few tubes. YMMV


----------



## Angus Rhoads

KraftyBob said:


> I'm in the "I don't hear a difference camp". Maybe I was expecting too much and when there wasn't a significant change with tubes I was disappointed? I have the Mesa SPAX7 in V1 and to be honest it doesn't sound any different that the stock tubes. I just don't know what all the fuss is about.
> 
> I've had my DSL for almost a year now and am starting to hear a slight ring/glassy jingle when I play an A chord. Not hearing it with any other chords. I haven't opened the back to check yet but thinking since it's only the A chord maybe a tube is loose and that frequency is causing vibration? As a plan B I started thinking about re-tubing so I've been looking at prices online. I just can't see spending the extra money for "better" tubes when I personally hear no difference.
> 
> In lieu of having two identical amps side by side with different tubes, maybe I have to start recording before and after and see if there's a difference? But then again, if it's not noticeable enough where I have to listen to recordings then to me it's not worth the extra price.
> 
> Perhaps someone can enlighten me on what I'm missing?


Yeah, like I said, subtle at best. I'm like that with audio gear - I don't hear a difference between different speaker cables or interconnects (regardless of price) but my buddy does.

That A-note could be a slightly microphonic preamp tube. Try swapping the other tubes into the V1 slot and see if it still does that.


----------



## Exojam

Micky said:


> Yes. It is in the Workbench section:
> http://www.marshallforum.com/threads/6550-power-tubes-in-a-dsl40c.79352/


So the thread in the workbench has everything need for this conversion? It appears like you came back to this thread with everything but my searching is way off tonight.

If it did end up back here I will find it tomorrow.

Thanks.


----------



## Micky

Yeah it is probably all over the place.

If you know the DSL circuit like I do it is easy.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Some more dsl40c tones


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

A good time to share some more dsl40c tones and a song still in progress,


----------



## Exojam

Micky said:


> Yeah it is probably all over the place.
> 
> If you know the DSL circuit like I do it is easy.


From the other thread it appears you changed the one resistor coming from the bias section, new tubes, new tube holders and a rebias. 

If there is more, I hope the tube type you went to can be the keyword need to search for everything.


----------



## Micky

Searches here kinda stink, a Google search seems more accurate.
Had to change grid leak resistors as well I think...

Why? Are you thinking of doing this?


----------



## Micky

The search function here kinda stinks.
Plus, not many here tag their stuff with keywords.
Just use a Google search for anything here...

I had to change the grid leak resistors as well.
It's in the thread.

Are you thinking of doing this?


----------



## Exojam

Micky said:


> Searches here kinda stink, a Google search seems more accurate.
> Had to change grid leak resistors as well I think...
> 
> Why? Are you thinking of doing this?


Yes I am. I am preparing to do the modes listed in the Joey thread and I saw this and figured since I will have the amp apart why not give it a go.

It maybe some time though as I am going to see if I can get this Blackstar running one more time and if not I will shelf that project for awhile. After that I am going to finish up my Plexi clone build.

Than I would have time for this as it looks fun and it seems you guys are getting a whole new amp from this mod.

Thanks again, James


----------



## Bownse

IMO the mod effects from least to most noticable:

Tube rolling (like was said it's an EQ thing)
C19 mod (may or may not be a thing and only at bedroom volumes)
Speakers (the biggest influence on the sound and negated the need for the C19 mod with proper speaker selection)

Here's my document on tubes. After converting the DSL40C into a head and 2x12 closed-back cab, I've stuck with things as shown.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Another bit with a pair of 40c’s, a beginning of a work in progress at tv volume!!


----------



## coyote

Bownse said:


> IMO the mod effects from least to most noticable:
> 
> Tube rolling (like was said it's an EQ thing)
> C19 mod (may or may not be a thing and only at bedroom volumes)
> Speakers (the biggest influence on the sound and negated the need for the C19 mod with proper speaker selection)
> 
> Here's my document on tubes. After converting the DSL40C into a head and 2x12 closed-back cab, I've stuck with things as shown.


Gotta disagree about C19. At band volume, it makes a huge difference. It takes a formerly brittle and useless red amp channel, and makes it not only usable but beautiful.

At some point in the future I will put a mini on-off-on DPDT toggle above the Lead1/Lead2 pushbutton. It will have 100pf and the 470pf caps, to allow switching that red channel between ‘stock’ and custom configurations. Doubt I’ll ever go back to stock, but might as well have it available. And it would allow me to test a variety of cap values without touching the circuit board again.

Edit: I see on YouTube that someone else did exactly this, on the 100w head version of the amp. I knew the idea was too good to be original lol


----------



## JonSick

Bownse said:


> IMO the mod effects from least to most noticable:
> 
> Tube rolling (like was said it's an EQ thing)
> C19 mod (may or may not be a thing and only at bedroom volumes)
> Speakers (the biggest influence on the sound and negated the need for the C19 mod with proper speaker selection)
> 
> Here's my document on tubes. After converting the DSL40C into a head and 2x12 closed-back cab, I've stuck with things as shown.



Just wanted to comment on this one. I still use the stock Marshall preamp tubes. To me they're absolutely fine. I fitted a duo of TAD EL34B-STRs and it's one of the best upgrades I did to my combo outside of changing the stock speaker to a vintage 30. Stock, it didn't sound bad to me and in fairness I only swapped the speaker simply due to internet peer pressure haha. But it was an improvement and I got the v30 cheap. 

As for other mods, I'm not totally sure what they would do for me and given I'm happy with my amp as it is, does what it does well, I probably won't go further. 

I mainly just wanted to say, the TADs are awesome. This goes against what I have in my other Marshalls, namely that almost all my amps have stock Marshall tubes and they're sweet. My TSL100 had to get serviced at Marshall (simply didn't have time to troubleshoot it) and they refitted stock Marshall tubes. That amp has never sounded better. I'm keeping it just as it is!


----------



## ken361

I think the Tads and Rubys are the same tube, Rubys cost less durable made tube.


----------



## Bownse

coyote said:


> Gotta disagree about C19. At band volume, it makes a huge difference. It takes a formerly brittle and useless red amp channel, and makes it not only usable but beautiful.
> 
> At some point in the future I will put a mini on-off-on DPDT toggle above the Lead1/Lead2 pushbutton. It will have 100pf and the 470pf caps, to allow switching that red channel between ‘stock’ and custom configurations. Doubt I’ll ever go back to stock, but might as well have it available. And it would allow me to test a variety of cap values without touching the circuit board again.



While I don't disagree completely, my take away was that can be done with a speaker swap (higher up in my priority list).


----------



## Clifdawg

Bownse said:


> While I don't disagree completely, my take away was that can be done with a speaker swap (higher up in my priority list).



This.

After my swap to the Eminence Private Jack, I find that the red channels are really well-balanced. A lot of top end bite, but much crisper and smoother than the fizzy 70/80. I couldn't imagine doing the C19 swap now, I like having that brightness to really cut through the mix. In fact, I find myself dialing up quite a bit of treble (7-8) now. I still keep the presence down low, because it can still get fizzy turned up, but there's a lot more *usable* treble with the new speaker.

Other than maintaining tubes, I have no additional plans to modify my DSL. It's just absolutely perfect now with the new speaker. Probably going to be a "lifetime" amp now.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

ken361 said:


> I think the Tads and Rubys are the same tube, Rubys cost less durable made tube.


Yea bro I have been sporting the ruby’s myself, in one, the others are all stock!!


----------



## KraftyBob

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> Yea bro I have been sporting the ruby’s myself, in one, the others are all stock!!


Herbert, how are you liking the Ruby’s? I just ordered a set myself.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

I like them, and I could not hear a big difference in the stockers, I have a pair of 40c’s next to each other, both are stock speakers , has a set of ruby’s in the pts, and a ruby in the v1 slot and a sovteck in v2 they both sound the same to my tired ears, so that was the extent of my tube rolling at this point


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

KraftyBob said:


> Herbert, how are you liking the Ruby’s? I just ordered a set myself.


In my experience with them they do quite well, all of my clips in this thread are with the pair of 40c’s in my avatar photo, that would be my only reference !!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

And I will purchase them again, and I am going to give the Mullards a shot in the origin 50H


----------



## KraftyBob

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> In my experience with them they do quite well, all of my clips in this thread are with the pair of 40c’s in my avatar photo, that would be my only reference !!


That’s good to hear. I like the tone of my amp with the stock tubes and didn’t want to alter it. I’m hoping to get a little more life out of these though. Between the construction of the Ruby’s and possibly lowering the bias I just may get my wish


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

I know I did-of the 4 DSL40C ‘s I purchased only 2 have had a tube issue , pt’s in one and a pre in the other, and yes I did buy 2 brand new and 2 used, because I wanted to use 2 in dual mono, or stereo, and I gave my grandson 1 and the classic vintage is a backup  the way everything is set up in the garage right now I have 2 killer rigs, one for gig/live tone, and 1 for tv volume, but can also double as a live/gig volume, rig as well, yes with the divorce card (GC gear card) I have spoiled my grandson and I


----------



## tmingle

Has anybody had a go at modifying the preset tone stack (R3, R4, R5, R7, C1, C2 & C3) in front of the clean/crunch channel on these amps? I would be interested in the results.


----------



## ken361

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> I know I did-of the 4 DSL40C ‘s I purchased only 2 have had a tube issue , pt’s in one and a pre in the other, and yes I did buy 2 brand new and 2 used, because I wanted to use 2 in dual mono, or stereo, and I gave my grandson 1 and the classic vintage is a backup  the way everything is set up in the garage right now I have 2 killer rigs, one for gig/live tone, and 1 for tv volume, but can also double as a live/gig volume, rig as well, yes with the divorce card (GC gear card) I have spoiled my grandson and I


Can I say the Origin kinda sits in between the red and crunch channel of the dsl? none of the highs of the red and not as bassy as the crunch channel. Stock speaker playing at the condo I keep the bass at 9 oclock though


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Have you got a chance to pair them up yet! That is where you can hear some magic  ?


----------



## ken361

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> Have you got a chance to pair them up yet! That is where you can hear some magic  ?


taking it back home tonight from my girlfriends


----------



## ken361

When i stand back and play over there like 15 feet or so its much more pleasing on the ears compared to the red channel dsl


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

When you pair it up with the 40c, you are going to want to be on green crunch 40c’s volume 3 gain 4 treble 6 mids 6 presence 7 renosence 6 reverb 2 the origin’ efx send will
Keep the volume of both aprox the same,


----------



## ken361

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> When you pair it up with the 40c, you are going to want to be on green crunch 40c’s volume 3 gain 4 treble 6 mids 6 presence 7 renosence 6 reverb 2 the origin’ efx send will
> Keep the volume of both aprox the same,


you didnt notice the loop difference


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

The only thing I noticed was that I had to turn the 40c up a bit to match, but the 40c was plugged into a b cab on the floor, and the origin was on an a cab in a full stack configuration, on the other side of the drums,


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Not sure how much of difference that would make, but I found the sweet spot in a about 3 minutes, I also went up to 5 on both amps , maybe only 4 on the origin,  sounds damn good to me


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Sorry Micky didn’t realize that I was on the 40c thread


----------



## Clifdawg

Got a couple free hours today, so I set up some mics and wrote a little minute-long song with a full mix to test the DSL40C and the Eminence Private Jack. First time I've ever tried to sync video with recorded audio, so it was a bit of a learning curve. Not perfect, but fun, anyway. I think I might do this a little more often. Hardcore details in the video description. Enjoy!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Clifdawg said:


> Got a couple free hours today, so I set up some mics and wrote a little minute-long song with a full mix to test the DSL40C and the Eminence Private Jack. First time I've ever tried to sync video with recorded audio, so it was a bit of a learning curve. Not perfect, but fun, anyway. I think I might do this a little more often. Hardcore details in the video description. Enjoy!



That was awesome, really cool to see some other members putting up clips


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

this is the 40c on red 2, and only one of them


----------



## end user

Hello! I hope I am not breaking forum rules by making my virgin post in this thread but I was sent here from TGP because I was looking for info on the DSL40C (not the newest one) I am currently reading through the entire thread. I bought one used at GC and am waiting for it to come off police hold. A little info about me..

I have been an on and off working musician for the last 30 years or so. For the last 12-15 years I have been mostly going direct with a modeling unit because it is what worked best for me being in a cover band.

Lately I have been wanting to go back to amps but in combo form. I'd guess I have owned close to 200 amps ranging from JCM800's to Triple Recs, Twins, DR, Bad Cat on and on and on and I have to say when I plugged into that DSL40C at GC it was love at first chord! I believe it's all stock but can't say for sure. The 70/80 is still in there and I am assuming it's broken in because I spent a good hour playing through that thing sometimes at crazy volumes and through all channels and it only got better and better the louder I got. No shrill on any channel, no flub just creamy Marshall goodness!

I am not selling off my modeler any time soon (Helix Floor) because I want to see how the DSL40C takes to it in 4cm. I've already created my cable snake for it in anticipation for the arrival of the DSL40C.

One thing I do not miss from using amps is how difficult it was to ride that wave of punchy mid to high gains when needed without extraneous noise. On the Helix it's a cinch but with analog only pedals and an amp it was certainly a battle I fought constantly. From what I am reading so far (on page 8 now) the few comments I have seen about noise have been favorable. I am determined to make that Helix work with the DSL40C. It'd be great to hear from some here who are using a Helix with theirs if there are any.

So any who. I am glad to be here and plan on reading through the entire thread. At least DSL40C content that is.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

bobpick68 said:


> Hello! I hope I am not breaking forum rules by making my virgin post in this thread but I was sent here from TGP because I was looking for info on the DSL40C (not the newest one) I am currently reading through the entire thread. I bought one used at GC and am waiting for it to come off police hold. A little info about me..
> 
> I have been an on and off working musician for the last 30 years or so. For the last 12-15 years I have been mostly going direct with a modeling unit because it is what worked best for me being in a cover band.
> 
> Lately I have been wanting to go back to amps but in combo form. I'd guess I have owned close to 200 amps ranging from JCM800's to Triple Recs, Twins, DR, Bad Cat on and on and on and I have to say when I plugged into that DSL40C at GC it was love at first chord! I believe it's all stock but can't say for sure. The 70/80 is still in there and I am assuming it's broken in because I spent a good hour playing through that thing sometimes at crazy volumes and through all channels and it only got better and better the louder I got. No shrill on any channel, no flub just creamy Marshall goodness!
> 
> I am not selling off my modeler any time soon (Helix Floor) because I want to see how the DSL40C takes to it in 4cm. I've already created my cable snake for it in anticipation for the arrival of the DSL40C.
> 
> One thing I do not miss from using amps is how difficult it was to ride that wave of punchy mid to high gains when needed without extraneous noise. On the Helix it's a cinch but with analog only pedals and an amp it was certainly a battle I fought constantly. From what I am reading so far (on page 8 now) the few comments I have seen about noise have been favorable. I am determined to make that Helix work with the DSL40C. It'd be great to hear from some here who are using a Helix with theirs if there are any.
> 
> So any who. I am glad to be here and plan on reading through the entire thread. At least DSL40C content that is.





bobpick68 said:


> Hello! I hope I am not breaking forum rules by making my virgin post in this thread but I was sent here from TGP because I was looking for info on the DSL40C (not the newest one) I am currently reading through the entire thread. I bought one used at GC and am waiting for it to come off police hold. A little info about me..
> 
> I have been an on and off working musician for the last 30 years or so. For the last 12-15 years I have been mostly going direct with a modeling unit because it is what worked best for me being in a cover band.
> 
> Lately I have been wanting to go back to amps but in combo form. I'd guess I have owned close to 200 amps ranging from JCM800's to Triple Recs, Twins, DR, Bad Cat on and on and on and I have to say when I plugged into that DSL40C at GC it was love at first chord! I believe it's all stock but can't say for sure. The 70/80 is still in there and I am assuming it's broken in because I spent a good hour playing through that thing sometimes at crazy volumes and through all channels and it only got better and better the louder I got. No shrill on any channel, no flub just creamy Marshall goodness!
> 
> I am not selling off my modeler any time soon (Helix Floor) because I want to see how the DSL40C takes to it in 4cm. I've already created my cable snake for it in anticipation for the arrival of the DSL40C.
> 
> One thing I do not miss from using amps is how difficult it was to ride that wave of punchy mid to high gains when needed without extraneous noise. On the Helix it's a cinch but with analog only pedals and an amp it was certainly a battle I fought constantly. From what I am reading so far (on page 8 now) the few comments I have seen about noise have been favorable. I am determined to make that Helix work with the DSL40C. It'd be great to hear from some here who are using a Helix with theirs if there are any.
> 
> So any who. I am glad to be here and plan on reading through the entire thread. At least DSL40C content that is.


Welcome to the forum


----------



## Micky

Greetings! 
Generally new members make their first post in the Introduce Yourself section.


----------



## Bownse

Spoil sport!


----------



## Micky

Bownse said:


> Spoil sport!


Hey! I said Greetings!


----------



## KraftyBob

bobpick68 said:


> Hello! I hope I am not breaking forum rules by making my virgin post in this thread but I was sent here from TGP because I was looking for info on the DSL40C (not the newest one) I am currently reading through the entire thread. I bought one used at GC and am waiting for it to come off police hold. A little info about me..
> 
> I have been an on and off working musician for the last 30 years or so. For the last 12-15 years I have been mostly going direct with a modeling unit because it is what worked best for me being in a cover band.
> 
> Lately I have been wanting to go back to amps but in combo form. I'd guess I have owned close to 200 amps ranging from JCM800's to Triple Recs, Twins, DR, Bad Cat on and on and on and I have to say when I plugged into that DSL40C at GC it was love at first chord! I believe it's all stock but can't say for sure. The 70/80 is still in there and I am assuming it's broken in because I spent a good hour playing through that thing sometimes at crazy volumes and through all channels and it only got better and better the louder I got. No shrill on any channel, no flub just creamy Marshall goodness!
> 
> I am not selling off my modeler any time soon (Helix Floor) because I want to see how the DSL40C takes to it in 4cm. I've already created my cable snake for it in anticipation for the arrival of the DSL40C.
> 
> One thing I do not miss from using amps is how difficult it was to ride that wave of punchy mid to high gains when needed without extraneous noise. On the Helix it's a cinch but with analog only pedals and an amp it was certainly a battle I fought constantly. From what I am reading so far (on page 8 now) the few comments I have seen about noise have been favorable. I am determined to make that Helix work with the DSL40C. It'd be great to hear from some here who are using a Helix with theirs if there are any.
> 
> So any who. I am glad to be here and plan on reading through the entire thread. At least DSL40C content that is.


Welcome to the forum. I have the DSL40C and use the Line 6 M13 in 4CM and it works great. As far as the noise goes being high gain amp it's going to happen - which I'm sure you're well aware of based on your history with amps. One thing you'll notice with the DSL is that the more volume you push the lower the gain needs to be (probably the same with other high gain amps, but I'm more familiar with this beast) - which helps with the hiss. Also, if I need it, I use the noise gate on the M13 and run it through the loop and it works great.

You've listed some real nice amps so it's nice to hear how much you like the DSL after playing all those. To be honest this is really an under-rated amp - it has great cleans, nice crunch and then balls when you need it. One thing you might hear on this thread is to swap the speaker out. Some here are happy with the 70/80, others (myself included) just didn't get along with it. Personal preference of course, but this is probably one of the main "mods" you'll hear.

Good luck with it.


----------



## end user

KraftyBob said:


> Welcome to the forum. I have the DSL40C and use the Line 6 M13 in 4CM and it works great. As far as the noise goes being high gain amp it's going to happen - which I'm sure you're well aware of based on your history with amps. One thing you'll notice with the DSL is that the more volume you push the lower the gain needs to be (probably the same with other high gain amps, but I'm more familiar with this beast) - which helps with the hiss. Also, if I need it, I use the noise gate on the M13 and run it through the loop and it works great.
> 
> You've listed some real nice amps so it's nice to hear how much you like the DSL after playing all those. To be honest this is really an under-rated amp - it has great cleans, nice crunch and then balls when you need it. One thing you might hear on this thread is to swap the speaker out. Some here are happy with the 70/80, others (myself included) just didn't get along with it. Personal preference of course, but this is probably one of the main "mods" you'll hear.
> 
> Good luck with it.



Thanks! That's good to hear that the M13 is working well for you. I don't do a lot of high gain these days but I like it to be tight and punchy when I do so I am sure using the gate in the loop should help.

From the short time I had with the DSL it seemed like I may not even need the red channel. With eq's at noon, resonance the same and presence dialed way down around 9 o'clock I was getting crazy good gain with the gain just below noon, volume up to about 3 o'clock and good cleans rolling the guitars volume knob back. The rest I would think can be taken care of with OD's and EQ in the Helix. Thats the plan at least.

Also I have already priced out a chassis for it should I decide to convert it into a head. I have an influx of 4x12, 2x12, and 1x12 cabs just kicking around waiting for something..


----------



## coyote

bobpick68 said:


> Thanks! That's good to hear that the M13 is working well for you. I don't do a lot of high gain these days but I like it to be tight and punchy when I do so I am sure using the gate in the loop should help.
> 
> From the short time I had with the DSL it seemed like I may not even need the red channel. With eq's at noon, resonance the same and presence dialed way down around 9 o'clock I was getting crazy good gain with the gain just below noon, volume up to about 3 o'clock and good cleans rolling the guitars volume knob back. The rest I would think can be taken care of with OD's and EQ in the Helix. Thats the plan at least.
> 
> Also I have already priced out a chassis for it should I decide to convert it into a head. I have an influx of 4x12, 2x12, and 1x12 cabs just kicking around waiting for something..


I used the amp for three years without ever going to the red channel - because I did not like its character. But there’s that channel, sitting unused, while I loved both the clean and crunch on the green channel and wanted to find some way to footswitch between them. 

A few weeks ago, the desire to find a way to footswitch between clean and crunch sounds brought me back to this forum (I’d joined in 2015 when I originally got the amp, but had not posted since). Lo and behold, it turns out that snipping C19 essentially turns the red channel into an approximation of crunch mode on the green channel..... the good people here directed me to the correct info in the correct threads. Problem solved.

I am going to put an on-off-on mini DPDT toggle on the front panel right above the lead1/2 selector button. It will have the 470pf cap on one side, and a 100pf cap on the other. That will give the ‘stock’ sound, the no-cap sound, and an in-between. For less than $10 in parts and a few minutes with a soldering iron, IMO it’s a better path than changing out speakers.


----------



## end user

I am not super picky about my tone so if it sounds even close in my jam room and at gigs to what it sounded like when I test drove it at GC then I've no reason to swap anything out. I have modded amps before though and am comfortable to a certain level with it. 

I hate to sound cliche' but that amp was as close to the dream tone in my head as it gets for me. I always get in trouble when I start tweaking things. Whether it's amps or modelers or whatever. I almost always end up back at stock or default.


----------



## ken361

Had no problem dialing in the red and I owned many amps ! its called dialing in your guitar tubes, picks,speakers ext. Like most amps play either loud or at bedroom levels. Most important bias it correctly !!


----------



## AlanH

bobpick68 said:


> Thanks! That's good to hear that the M13 is working well for you. I don't do a lot of high gain these days but I like it to be tight and punchy when I do so I am sure using the gate in the loop should help.
> 
> From the short time I had with the DSL it seemed like I may not even need the red channel. With eq's at noon, resonance the same and presence dialed way down around 9 o'clock I was getting crazy good gain with the gain just below noon, volume up to about 3 o'clock and good cleans rolling the guitars volume knob back. The rest I would think can be taken care of with OD's and EQ in the Helix. Thats the plan at least.
> 
> Also I have already priced out a chassis for it should I decide to convert it into a head. I have an influx of 4x12, 2x12, and 1x12 cabs just kicking around waiting for something..



Welcome Bob! Your experience on here is going to be very useful to a lot of people like me.

In terms of the red channel you mention, have a play in the Ultra 1 mode with your guitar volume knobs rolled way, way back to clean the channel up - try different pickup combinations to get your cleans and crunch. It sounds immense and there's a lot of places to go from there in a gigging situation.

Maybe you could help me out with the favour I've asked in another thread while you're at it. Link below.

http://www.marshallforum.com/threads/could-a-fellow-dsl40c-owner-do-me-a-quick-favour.103711/


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

AlanH said:


> Welcome Bob! Your experience on here is going to be very useful to a lot of people like me.
> 
> In terms of the red channel you mention, have a play in the Ultra 1 mode with your guitar volume knobs rolled way, way back to clean the channel up - try different pickup combinations to get your cleans and crunch. It sounds immense and there's a lot of places to go from there in a gigging situation.
> 
> Maybe you could help me out with the favour I've asked in another thread while you're at it. Link below.
> 
> http://www.marshallforum.com/threads/could-a-fellow-dsl40c-owner-do-me-a-quick-favour.103711/


I replied in your other thread, and I am going to put a clip in here that is a 40c , and an origin 50 h here it comes!!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

give it a listen when you have some time on your hands


----------



## AlanH

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> give it a listen when you have some time on your hands




Nice one Herbert. Like the screaming pinch harmonics there.


----------



## Bucky Berg

I changed the power tubes in my 40c yesterday to Mullard RIs. Huge difference. Biased to 37.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

AlanH said:


> Nice one Herbert. Like the screaming pinch harmonics there.


I have to say thank you for taking the time to check it out  nothing better than a compliment from another player


----------



## end user

Well, well, well.........

I went to change the speaker out and 3 of the 4 nuts that hold the screws in popped through. After fighting with it for an hour and putting a hole in the front grill cloth I have decided I am getting a head chassis for it. Completely disgusted. The MDF just crumbled when I tried to put the nuts back in.


----------



## ken361

I had that problem with my new Origin took me like 2 hours and I left one T nut screw still behind the cloth somewhere and screwed 3 into the speaker. I fingers were bleeding some from scraping the grill cloth its very tight and little room for my fingers. The dsl was a bit easier because i had more finger room. Marshall Dog said he laid the amp over some books so the screws won't pop out, so that should be much easier now


----------



## coyote

You really have to be careful with moving speakers around in these cabinets. MDF is not designed to have edge strength. To routinely screw/unscrew very near an edge will wear it out.

Think I’ll leave the Creamback in there.


----------



## Bownse

bobpick68 said:


> Well, well, well.........
> 
> I went to change the speaker out and 3 of the 4 nuts that hold the screws in popped through. After fighting with it for an hour and putting a hole in the front grill cloth I have decided I am getting a head chassis for it. Completely disgusted. The MDF just crumbled when I tried to put the nuts back in.




I put nuts with washers on the inside before breaking it out into a head/cab combo. Sorry about the grill clothe.

http://www.fjr-tips.org/misc/amp


----------



## wolfpack

bobpick68 said:


> Well, well, well.........
> 
> I went to change the speaker out and 3 of the 4 nuts that hold the screws in popped through. After fighting with it for an hour and putting a hole in the front grill cloth I have decided I am getting a head chassis for it. Completely disgusted. The MDF just crumbled when I tried to put the nuts back in.



Moved my 40C chassis to a headshell = 

If anyone wants the empty combo with speaker, come pick it up and it's yours


----------



## Micky

wolfpack said:


> Moved my 40C chassis to a headshell =
> 
> If anyone wants the empty combo with speaker, come pick it up and it's yours





wolfpack said:


> Moved my 40C chassis to a headshell =
> 
> If anyone wants the empty combo with speaker, come pick it up and it's yours


Where you located?


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

I second that ( what Micky said) where are you located? Micky this thread is about to hit the 10,000 post count


----------



## end user

Well I ended up drilling new holes and just screwing right into the wood using some beefy wood screws and gorilla glue. I definitely like the Elite 50 much better. I am noticing some crackiling though but it was there before. Pretty sure just dirty pots. When I take the head unit out to re-tube with JJ's and bias it I will clean the pots with some DeOxit.


----------



## end user

Micky said:


> Where you located?



I am near Manchester NH.


----------



## wolfpack

SF bay area


----------



## wolfpack

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> I second that ( what Micky said) where are you located? Micky this thread is about to hit the 10,000 post count



Come pick it up, it's yours


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

wolfpack said:


> Come pick it up, it's yours


I will have to work out the logistics, but thanks brother


----------



## wolfpack




----------



## wolfpack




----------



## KraftyBob

^^^10,000th post^^^ Woohoo


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

At a baby, rock on brother


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

One hell of a thread right here, and I have gained a shit load of information here


----------



## coyote

Searched but not finding.....

I would like to add an LED to the front panel to tell at a glance whether the green channel is in Clean or Crunch mode. Has anyone done such a modification? 

It does not matter to me whether the LED is lit in Clean mode or Crunch mode, as long as it’s on in one mode and off in the other mode. Presumably it’s as simple as clipping one side of a particular resistor or something, and inserting the diode at that point.... if anyone is familiar enough with the circuit, please chime in


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

This is a 40c and an a origin 50H, both amps are being used as heads, through mg cabs, just wanted to share the tone


----------



## KraftyBob

Searched but not finding.....

I would like to add an LED to the front panel to tell at a glance whether the green channel is in Clean or Crunch mode. Has anyone done such a modification?

It does not matter to me whether the LED is lit in Clean mode or Crunch mode, as long as it’s on in one mode and off in the other mode. Presumably it’s as simple as clipping one side of a particular resistor or something, and inserting the diode at that point.... if anyone is familiar enough with the circuit, please chime in[/QUOTE]
I've not seen anything about this but it would be a great mod - for both Classic and Ultra Gain channels. There's a video on YT where a guy added an LEDs to his foot switch so maybe it would be similar?


----------



## coyote

[QUOTE="KraftyBob, post: 1752901]

I've not seen anything about this but it would be a great mod - for both Classic and Ultra Gain channels. There's a video on YT where a guy added an LEDs to his foot switch so maybe it would be similar?

[/QUOTE]

I’m already doing that mod, when the parts arrive. That one looks easy once the values are known.

The clean/crunch indicator will be different. Ideally I could just tap the switch itself, or even better install an led button switch. But I’m not gonna remove a board-mounted switch. Too much potential for problems.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

once again 40c and origin 50H dual mono, thanks in advance for your time to check it out


----------



## Micky

Your videos look way more professional now.
Now they are worth of your Marshall prowess...


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Micky said:


> Your videos look way more professional now.
> Now they are worth of your Marshall prowess...


Thanks Micky


----------



## end user

I'm sure I am preaching to choir here but here is what I ended up doing to my DSL40C. The bias on the power tubes was crazy high. 49 on one and 47 on another!

Changed speaker to a Celestion Elite 50
Put a NOS RCA black plate 12ax7 in V1
JJ EC83 in V4
Kept stock power tubes and biased to 34.5

Favorite pedals so far are EHX Soul Food and a Dyna Comp with gain cranked on green channel clean and red channel lead 1 for solos.

I didnt find a need to clip c19 because the fizziness was easily rectified with the speaker change, bias, and RCA in v1 and eq's dialed right.

Tremendous amp. I do wish they'd have at least made the baffle board out of plywood or pine but I got by. Just not changing the speaker again. This ones a winner in there compared to the 70/80.

Oh and also hit all pots and inputs/outputs and tube sockets with contact cleaner.


----------



## Clifdawg

bobpick68 said:


> Favorite pedals so far are EHX Soul Food and a Dyna Comp with gain cranked on green channel clean and red channel lead 1 for solos.



The Soul Food is a great pedal. I'm running an OCD into my 40C, which I didn't like that much until a speaker swap. After the swap, the OCD gives me this tweedy, Bassman-like low-end grit that I love for bluesy stuff. As much grief as I might get for this, I skip the green-crunch setting entirely now - I keep the green channel squeaky clean, I use the OCD for moderate crunch, then use the red channel in lead 2 with the gain dialed back to about 2-3 for heavier stuff. It's a perfect rig for me; I have no desire to change anything up right now.


----------



## KraftyBob

bobpick68 said:


> I'm sure I am preaching to choir here but here is what I ended up doing to my DSL40C. The bias on the power tubes was crazy high. 49 on one and 47 on another!
> 
> Changed speaker to a Celestion Elite 50
> Put a NOS RCA black plate 12ax7 in V1
> JJ EC83 in V4
> Kept stock power tubes and biased to 34.5
> 
> Favorite pedals so far are EHX Soul Food and a Dyna Comp with gain cranked on green channel clean and red channel lead 1 for solos.
> 
> I didnt find a need to clip c19 because the fizziness was easily rectified with the speaker change, bias, and RCA in v1 and eq's dialed right.
> 
> Tremendous amp. I do wish they'd have at least made the baffle board out of plywood or pine but I got by. Just not changing the speaker again. This ones a winner in there compared to the 70/80.
> 
> Oh and also hit all pots and inputs/outputs and tube sockets with contact cleaner.


Be careful with using Contact Cleaner in your pots. There’s another thread on here about the difference between contact cleaner and deoxit and the outcome was to use deoxit on pots because it has lubricants (that pots need), where as contact cleaner doesn’t and will dry them out. 

Great mods and good to hear your enjoying the DSL!


----------



## ken361

KraftyBob said:


> Be careful with using Contact Cleaner in your pots. There’s another thread on here about the difference between contact cleaner and deoxit and the outcome was to use deoxit on pots because it has lubricants (that pots need), where as contact cleaner doesn’t and will dry them out.
> 
> Great mods and good to hear your enjoying the DSL!


I used deoxit 5 on my tube pins to clean it, didn't seem to harm it but I learned about the solvent thing after i bought it


----------



## coyote

Here’s a few seconds of the DSL40c. Sound is Strat into a PitchFork (you’ll notice where I use it), but aside from that unadulterated. Captured from about four feet away on my iPad, the combo’s Creamback plus a 2x12 all firing.

Classic gain, Crunch mode.


----------



## end user

coyote said:


> Here’s a few seconds of the DSL40c. Sound is Strat into a PitchFork (you’ll notice where I use it), but aside from that unadulterated. Captured from about four feet away on my iPad, the combo’s Creamback plus a 2x12 all firing.
> 
> Classic gain, Crunch mode.




Outstanding!


----------



## coyote

bobpick68 said:


> Outstanding!


Thanks! I use the PitchFork via an expression pedal. On that song, it allows me to emulate the keyboard parts and the octave guitar riffs. Aside from that, it’s pure Marshall.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

coyote said:


> Here’s a few seconds of the DSL40c. Sound is Strat into a PitchFork (you’ll notice where I use it), but aside from that unadulterated. Captured from about four feet away on my iPad, the combo’s Creamback plus a 2x12 all firing.
> 
> Classic gain, Crunch mode.



Cool bro I gotta say you hit the nail on the head!!


----------



## ken361

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> Cool bro I gotta say you hit the nail on the head!!


Hey Herbert you like old school Chicago? Its jamming right now


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

ken361 said:


> Hey Herbert you like old school Chicago? Its jamming right now


As a matter of fact yes I do, what network?


----------



## ken361

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> As a matter of fact yes I do, what network?


CD


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

ken361 said:


> CD


 DOH (head down and incoherenty mumbles to him self, kicks dirt wanders off)


----------



## Jme5150

coyote said:


> Searched but not finding.....
> 
> I would like to add an LED to the front panel to tell at a glance whether the green channel is in Clean or Crunch mode. Has anyone done such a modification?
> 
> It does not matter to me whether the LED is lit in Clean mode or Crunch mode, as long as it’s on in one mode and off in the other mode. Presumably it’s as simple as clipping one side of a particular resistor or something, and inserting the diode at that point.... if anyone is familiar enough with the circuit, please chime in


----------



## Jme5150

coyote said:


> Searched but not finding.....
> 
> I would like to add an LED to the front panel to tell at a glance whether the green channel is in Clean or Crunch mode. Has anyone done such a modification?
> 
> It does not matter to me whether the LED is lit in Clean mode or Crunch mode, as long as it’s on in one mode and off in the other mode. Presumably it’s as simple as clipping one side of a particular resistor or something, and inserting the diode at that point.... if anyone is familiar enough with the circuit, please chime in


My amp tech made my Lead 1 and Lead 2 foot switchable via the reverb button on the foot switch. He replaced the push button on the panel with an LED so I know I’m in Lead 2. I’ll ask him the specifics and post some pics as soon as I can


----------



## coyote

The 100pf cap arrived. It plus the wires are soldered onto the on-off-on DPDT microswitch. Amp is discharging.... this weekend I will protect the circuit, turn it upside down, drill the hole in the faceplate, remove the 470pf cap, solder it onto the switch.... then put the switch into the faceplate and solder the wires where the 470pf used to be on the board.

I’m looking forward to hearing how the amp sounds with the 100pf capacitor.

Edit: complete. Looks good, sounds great.


----------



## coyote

Deleted for posterity!


----------



## Exojam

Just blanking great, I was doing some of the mods today and the eyelets on C10 popped.

Going to try and get it to a repair shop since I do not want this messed up any more.

Just so pissed off right now.


----------



## Micky

coyote said:


> Btw, I don’t know whether it’s been posted in this thread but this looks like the DSL40c circuitboard schematic.
> (I know it’s for the 100w amp, but prior to the power amp section the board is the same, right?)
> 
> If I’m wrong please let me know; I do not want to supply inaccurate information. Here’s the link:
> 
> https://music-electronics-forum.com...3cceb1f5f181d&attachmentid=47307&d=1519622857


Yes that is the DSL100h schematic. It is different.
The DSL40c schematic is commonly available online.


----------



## coyote

Micky said:


> Yes that is the DSL100h schematic. It is different.
> The DSL40c schematic is commonly available online.


I looked, and didn’t find it. Could you post a link?
I’ll delete the inaccurate info in my earlier post.


----------



## Micky

It is on this page: https://music-electronics-forum.com/showthread.php?t=39446

Google is your friend...


----------



## coyote

Micky said:


> It is on this page: https://music-electronics-forum.com/showthread.php?t=39446
> 
> Google is your friend...


Maybe not, because I spent a bit of time on google looking for it and did not get that page. Thanks for the link.


----------



## Exojam

Ahhh, feeling a little relieved as I found an amp tech about 45 minutes away who will be able to fix it for me.


----------



## Exojam

Does anyone who made the mods below have a picture of the PCB? Thanks.

C4 removed
C5 to .001uF
C19 to 180pF
C50, 51, 54 to Mallory 150 22nF 630V
C10,25,29,47,55,60 to Mojotone Dijion 47nF 630V
C2,3,18,24,91 to Mallory 150 47nF 630V


----------



## AlanH

Just a quick couple of questions if I may folks.

What is a cathode follower that V3 is used for?

Which specific tubes does the send and return of the FX loop run between?


----------



## Micky

V3, the cathode follower is a unity gain stage between the first two preamp tubes (gain stages) the the tone stack.
The tone controls are very lossy, and the cathode follower adds a bit of current (power) to the signal to carry it thru the tone controls. It is a buffer between the gain stages and the tone controls to maintain the signal to the final power section as well as match the impedance between the two (hi to low).

In the DSL40c the loop is nested between the output of the tone stack and the input of the PI.


----------



## AlanH

@Micky

Thanks - very useful and well explained. Will help me diagnose a potential tube problem.


----------



## Bownse

If I read that very slowly and several times, I eventually got a mental image of what was being explained. Nice. Thanks.

{not an electronics whiz but have accidentally whized on electronics}


----------



## mickeydg5

Voltage stings if present.


----------



## Exojam

And it will hurt. Had a shipmate in a squadron (we were AE’s working on A6 Intruders) and we were deployed on the USS Ranger. He got whacked in the hand and went out his foot. Talk about not feeling to good.


----------



## ken361

r


----------



## KraftyBob

Exojam said:


> And it will hurt. Had a shipmate in a squadron (we were AE’s working on A6 Intruders) and we were deployed on the USS Ranger. He got whacked in the hand and went out his foot. Talk about not feeling to good.


<Off Topic> Thank you for your service! My middle son, 3 years into college, decided he wanted to join the Marines. He took his exam last week and goes to MEPS this week. Will go to Boot Camp sometime between December and March. He has this strong desire to serve his country. Proud and a little nervous.

OK - back to our regularly scheduled program. <On Topic>


----------



## Exojam

We could always use some damn good Jarheads! Toughest branch of any service.


----------



## mickeydg5

ken361 said:


> r


----------



## Bownse

If only we, as a nation, didn't send our kids out into harms way to fill the coffers of industry.


----------



## Exojam

Well I finally finished up the mods that have been mentioned in one of my posts above (thanks to those who came up with them). I also changed the NFB to 47k and changed the 3 resistors to make way for the new 6550EH power tubes that are going in. Those things are damn huge.

Going to get the bias set tomorrow and than have some fun!


----------



## KraftyBob

Exojam said:


> Well I finally finished up the mods that have been mentioned in one of my posts above (thanks to those who came up with them). I also changed the NFB to 47k and changed the 3 resistors to make way for the new 6550EH power tubes that are going in. Those things are damn huge.
> 
> Going to get the bias set tomorrow and than have some fun!


Before and after sound samples please.


----------



## Exojam

No way I can do the sound before and after as it has not been played recently and audible remembrance over a period of time is not something I really believe is possible (but that is just my opinion).


----------



## KraftyBob

OK - thought maybe you had a recording from before. A sound sample after maybe


----------



## Exojam

Micky did the same mod with the power tubes and documented in this thread somewhere.


----------



## EndGame00

Check this out. I find this interesting.


----------



## Micky

EndGame00 said:


> Check this out. I find this interesting.



This mod was documented on the page just before this one...


----------



## coyote

Micky said:


> This mod was documented on the page just before this one...


That vid was of course the inspiration for my mod. I was gonna just do a 470/none switch, but I saw that vid and did the same (470/none/100). Only thing I did differently was a black DPDT mini toggle, and mine goes left-right rather than up-down.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

https://youtu.be/XdDAmwbA6E4 This is a pair of 40c’s , vox tone lab se, with a tube over drive and 68 plexi sim off of the tone lab, both amps green crunch, gain 2 volume 2, the rest of the eq’s at 5, pretty decent bedroom tone/ volume!! In my ears


----------



## Exojam

Well I made the changes to the below resistors to allow for changeing tubes to 6550 but have ran into an issue (maybe).

R106 from 15K to 12K
R79, R81 from 220K to 150K. This would not allow me to get below I believe 56ma.

I have tried 140K and now have 120k in there and I still cannot get below 54ma. I have a plate voltage of 434 (on red and brown wire on the power tubes).

I do not believe Micky changed any of his caps in this area but I did change C55&C60 from 22n/400 volts to 47n/630 volts.

I just do not know how to determine if the change in cap values is preventing me from getting a resistor in there that will allow me to set the bias to 50ma as Micky was able to.

On a side note, all the bias calculators I have looked at showed that with a 6550A (43 watt) and the 434 plate voltage I am good to go.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Micky

How does it sound?


----------



## Micky

You may need to take R106 down to 10K
Leave the grid resistors at 150K


----------



## Exojam

Micky,

Thank you for the reply.

I have not played it as of yet since I wanted to make sure I had everything correct.

No problem with the resistor changes.

I posted this in this forum since I did not want to keep bugging you in the conversation.


----------



## Exojam

Micky,

Thank you so much. I made the changes you suggested and now I have some wiggle room and can get it to 50ma.

I just fired her up so I am going to watch it for an hour or so and if things stay good I will button her back up and give it a go.

It did suck bringing back from my shop in the shed since I had the head on my lap since I am wheelchair bound and at the end of the ramp it started to slide off so I grabbed it before it went flying and tore my right knee up. Being on blood thinners, by the time I got to the house I had blood running down the leg.

But after the slide I started moving on and my front wheel caught a rock and there went the head! It’s like WTF, I just wanted to try new power tubes .

I will keep you posted and thank you very much again for all your help!


----------



## MarshallDog

Well...an update!

I've posted many times on this forum about the issue of my DSL 40C amp cutting out or having no sound upon power up. After the 3rd time in the shop, my amp tech is having Marshall send him a brand new mother board so all should be taken care of soon. It has something to do with the main control chip on the PCB. What a pain in the a-s! Ive grown to hate this amp so once I get her back I will sell her off!


----------



## G the wildman

MarshallDog said:


> Well...an update!
> 
> I've posted many times on this forum about the issue of my DSL 40C amp cutting out or having no sound upon power up. After the 3rd time in the shop, my amp tech is having Marshall send him a brand new mother board so all should be taken care of soon. It has something to do with the main control chip on the PCB. What a pain in the a-s! Ive grown to hate this amp so once I get her back I will sell her off!


Get a JVM. Totally superior.


----------



## MarshallDog

G the wildman said:


> Get a JVM. Totally superior.



Had the JVM 410H and sold it years ago..don't like JVMs tone at all. I like the amps in my signature and the 40C will be gone.


----------



## Exojam

MarshallDog,

It is the cutting in and out that makes you dislike this amp or are there other things you just do not like about it? Thanks.


----------



## MarshallDog

Exojam said:


> MarshallDog,
> 
> It is the cutting in and out that makes you dislike this amp or are there other things you just do not like about it? Thanks.



Thats just part of it but it just never had the right tone. Too compressed, too much gain. Channel 1 was better but channel 2 was horrible IMO. It was also very brite and modern sounding. After a playing other amps I knew this amp just was not for me so when I get it back from my Tech, I will sell it off.


----------



## Exojam

Thank you for the detailed information.


----------



## coyote

G the wildman said:


> Get a JVM. Totally superior.


Also totally more expensive. lol

It’s funny how folks have different reactions to different things. To me, the green channel alone is worth the price - and now that I have the red channel modded, it’s even better. If I had the space for another amp I’d offer Mdog a couple hundred for it. Would be cool to have a pair of these mini stacks. Perhaps run the effects loop in stereo, and have one always on the green channel with clean setting.


----------



## Micky

He had a JVM. Didn't like it.
DSL is very similar in that it has a lot of gain.
And I agree it sounds compressed...

Until you mod it for 6550's.


----------



## Exojam

Well thanks to Micky trying and documenting his change of power tubes to 6550 and me copying him, I have a completely new DSL40C amp.

This thing freaking rocks the house now. Before making the below changes I really did not like either of the Ultra Gain channels. Now either one sounds very good with no ice pick shoved through your head.

The biggest surprise was on the classic gain channel on the “1959 Plexi Super Lead”, holy shit that was ripping my house apart.

Still have a lot of playing around to do but man do I love this amp so much more. Below are all the changes I made to it.

C4 removed
C5 to .001uF
C19 to 180pF
C50, 51, 54 to Mallory 150 22nF 630V
C10,25,29,47,55,60 to Mojotone Dijion 47nF 630V
C2,3,18,24,91 to Mallory 150 47nF 630V

Resistors changed to allow for the 6550 tubes.
R106 = 10K
R79 - 81 = 150K
Changed power tubes to Electro-Harmonics 6550EH

I originally changed R106 to 12K and tried 150K, 140K and 120K for R79 and R81 but could never get the bias for the tubes down to 50ma.

That is when it was suggested to put R106 to 10K and put R79/R81 back to the stock values of 150K. This enabled me have the capability to go higher or lower than 50ma if necessary for any reason.

Put in some NOS pre amp tubes
V1 - Mullard I61
V2 - 12DT7 / 12AX7 Raytheon blackplate
V3 - GE - JAN GE 12AX7WA
V4 - 12AX7A RCA

That’s it for now. After I have more time with it I will document any changes I may feel about it but I have to say this amp is not leaving the house.

Thanks Micky!!!!!!


----------



## Micky

Don't forget to document the changes to the bias circuitry.
The resistor values you used are different than mine, but people should know.

If it helps ease your mind, (about PM'ing me) I get PM's and emails weekly about this, as well as other 40c issues. Many are reluctant to join a forum, much less participate as you have. The change to 6550's is at times subtle, but the way it opens the amp up is remarkable. Many have trouble expressing that difference, I know I do.

You need to play it often now, and keep us all updated as to how you are doing. I know it sounds selfish to an extent, but as I said, there are many more lurkers than you could ever imagine, and this thread is a top hit in Google as far as this amp model is concerned. The things we do here are replicated in many other places, and I have seen our photos in a lot of other places on the internet.

Most importantly, it is a great feeling to inspire others to follow, and you should feel proud that you have helped. We need others to speak out either with questions or sound bites, as it makes all the difference in the world.

Good job!


----------



## Exojam

Micky’s bias changes:

“3 resistors did the trick, in addition to new tube holders.

R106 originally 15K change to 12K (or piggyback 10K)—- .6 watt
R79 & R81 originally 220K change to 150K (or piggyback 82K)—- .6 watt

I set the bias at 50 and played a while (30-45 minutes or so) and it drifted up to 53 on both sides. I set it back at 50 and it remained stable.”

——My bias resistor changes:
R106 = 10K
R79 - 81 = 150K (stock values)

Bias adjusted to 50ma. Monitored it for at least 8 hours to to make small tweaks to have it stay at 50ma.


----------



## coyote

Wow. Congrats on getting what you want... but I’d never go through that extensive a mod process, given the risks of bad solder joints and/or circuit board damage etc. Heck I was paranoid to even solder wires where C19 used to be!

But I have had experience with 6550s. Back when I could no longer find good KT88s for the Major, I tried a set of 6550s. Let’s just say that, even though the 6550 is supposedly a direct replacement, the sound suffered.


----------



## Exojam

Well if anyone is just going for 6550 it is only three resistors and they are in pretty open areas to get to.


----------



## AlanH

Just been rolling a few preamp tubes on my DSL40C after reading the sticky by @MartyStrat54 ....

I may have had a problem with my stock V3 so I had already replaced it with a solitary spare JJ ECC83S I had.

I then proceeded to order a complete set of CP tubes from a reputable tube dealer here in the UK - Watford Valves. They came very well packaged - all in individual Watford Valves boxes inside a parcel box filled with polystyrene chips.

I didn't spend too much:
1 X Tung Sol 12AX7
1 X EHX 12AX7
2 X JJ ECC83S
1 X matched pair Marshall EL34/EL34B

I didn't like the EHX in V1 - too much gain. It was better in V2 with the Tung Sol in V1. Watford Valves say that Tung Sols are good for taming fizz and warming up a high gain amp and I agree, so it stayed in V1. Although the EHX sounded pretty good in V2 after the Tung Sol I remember reading on Marty's post about him liking lop sided high gain tubes in V4 so I stuck the EHX there. I then put the stock Marshall branded 12AX7 with the double dots in to V2 and bingo - I found the combination I liked the best. The ice pickiness/fizziness of the amp seems to have been tamed and I'm getting warm, harmonic tones with gentle break up (my stock power tubes are already biased coolish)

In summary I have the following set up:

V1 - Tung-Sol 12AX7
V2 - Marshall Branded stock 1AX7 (double red dotted stolen from V1)
V3 - JJ ECC83S
V4 - EHX 12AX7
Stock Marshall branded EL34s biased at 38
Original Celestion 70/80 - starting to break in nicely since I've been taking the amp to rehearsals
No mods to the board

This is my pedal board:





I think I've got everything pretty much how I want it (maybe I'll get a decent compressor pedal at some point)

Edit: I'm using this set up for a new function band I'm in. I use classic crunch set very clean for pop material and Red 1 set like an early AC/DC tone for rock material. The SD-1 on Red 1 takes me in to Bon Jovi territory and the Bad Monkey is set as a clean boost for solos on either channel. No problems with EQ differences between channels by using the amp in this way....

PS anybody know what brand the stock Marshall preamp and poweramp tubes in the latterly made DSL40Cs are?


----------



## Micky

AlanH said:


> PS anybody know what brand the stock Marshall preamp and poweramp tubes in the latterly made DSL40Cs are?



Depends. Post a clear hi-rez macro photo and we can identify it.
Generally the chrome plates are custom asian (vietnamese/chinese) tubes made specifically for Marshall. Grey plates may be JJ, I dunno what the black plates may be. I think there have been about 5 different manufacturers, depending on availability at the time. The 40c has become very popular, and keeping up with components seems to have been difficult...


----------



## AlanH

Micky said:


> Depends. Post a clear hi-rez macro photo and we can identify it.
> Generally the chrome plates are custom asian (vietnamese/chinese) tubes made specifically for Marshall. Grey plates may be JJ, I dunno what the black plates may be. I think there have been about 5 different manufacturers, depending on availability at the time. The 40c has become very popular, and keeping up with components seems to have been difficult...




Here's a pic


----------



## ken361

Silver are a little brighter over the black plates


----------



## scotheath

I am just curious as I have a bunch of _*Ceramic Disc*_ Capacitor left over from pedal builds. Can I use a ceramic disc 100pf in C19 or does it have to be a _*monolithic*_ capacitor, and if yes, the ones I have are 50v is that sufficient ?


----------



## Micky

scotheath said:


> I am just curious as I have a bunch of _*Ceramic Disc*_ Capacitor left over from pedal builds. Can I use a ceramic disc 100pf in C19 or does it have to be a _*monolithic*_ capacitor, and if yes, the ones I have are 50v is that sufficient ?


Yes.


----------



## ken361

40 dollar guitar kicks ass


----------



## AlanH

Nice playing Ken.

Not much activity on this thread these days. 
Have people fallen out of love with the good old, trusty DSL40C?

I've been looking at eBay 'sold' listings since the CR series came out. Here in the UK, after an initial dip to around £200 GB, used prices for 40Cs have been creeping back up to their original £300-350 GB mark so maybe the grass on the 40CR side isn't always greener.....


----------



## ken361

AlanH said:


> Nice playing Ken.
> 
> Not much activity on this thread these days.
> Have people fallen out of love with the good old, trusty DSL40C?
> 
> I've been looking at eBay 'sold' listings since the CR series came out. Here in the UK, after an initial dip to around £200 GB, used prices for 40Cs have been creeping back up to their original £300-350 GB mark so maybe the grass on the 40CR side isn't always greener.....


I see some selling at guitar center for around 500.00 US dollars. My Origin is getting more play time for lower gain stuff these days and thanks bud


----------



## Micky

I think the older 40c is emerging as the more desireable model.
Despite the new features of the 40cr, the reliability of the 40c is winning out over it. Unfortunately, to get some peoples preferred tone it taked a little modification, but generally is well within the capabilities of most people (speaker change).

Maybe there will be another revision that will address those issues. Even better yet, maybe someone will come across a schematic and that would allow US to fix them...


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Mine are going nowhere, have not fallen out of love with them, still need to roll the mullard pres in two of them, might get a chance after work today, working residential today, can’t start till 8:00 am, makes for a long day, 2 hour drive home, and I just seem to have no ambition once I get home


----------



## MarshallDog

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> Mine are going nowhere, have not fallen out of love with them, still need to roll the mullard pres in two of them, might get a chance after work today, working residential today, can’t start till 8:00 am, makes for a long day, 2 hour drive home, and I just seem to have no ambition once I get home



I was using the Tube Store 7025 12ax7s in that amp when I used it and it tamed that bitch down a lot. Best tube I found for that amp!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

MarshallDog said:


> I was using the Tube Store 7025 12ax7s in that amp when I used it and it tamed that bitch down a lot. Best tube I found for that amp!


My 40c’s are mostly used at tv volume, so I am hoping that they tame a bit of the low volume fizz


----------



## AlanH

ken361 said:


> I see some selling at guitar center for around 500.00 US dollars. My Origin is getting more play time for lower gain stuff these days and thanks bud



I must admit that, at the moment, I'd be much happier buying an Origin to compliment my DSL40C than I would buying a DSL40CR.

Edit - meant than CR


----------



## ken361

AlanH said:


> I must admit that, at the moment, I'd be much happier buying an Origin to compliment my DSL40C than I would buying a DSL40C.


I dig my origin


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

I have bought a origin 50h to compliment my 40c’s, love all of them, and a pair of mosfet 100 leads as well they will have to pry them away from me,


----------



## MarshallDog

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> I have bought a origin 50h to compliment my 40c’s, love all of them, and a pair of mosfet 100 leads as well they will have to pry them away from me,



Can you school me on Mosfet Leads...not familiar with them...thanks!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

MarshallDog said:


> Can you school me on Mosfet Leads...not familiar with them...thanks!


They were the supposed little brother of the Jcm 800 2203, but solid state, both of mine are from 1985, I am going to hunt down a vid and post it here(sorry Micky)


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Here is one Marshall DOG


----------



## MarshallDog

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> They were the supposed little brother of the Jcm 800 2203, but solid state, both of mine are from 1985, I am going to hunt down a vid and post it here(sorry Micky)



Ah ha...I guy asked me to check one out last summer for him. Clean it up and check it over. I found one of the mosfets to be fried and actually split in half.


----------



## Micky

Best to start a new thread to continue this aspect...
That way more people will find it and chime in.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Micky said:


> Best to start a new thread to continue this aspect...
> That way more people will find it and chime in.


Will do Micky


----------



## coyote

AlanH said:


> Nice playing Ken.
> 
> Not much activity on this thread these days.
> Have people fallen out of love with the good old, trusty DSL40C?..


Once everyone that has one is happy with it, what’s left to discuss?


----------



## Len

coyote said:


> Once everyone that has one is happy with it, what’s left to discuss?


Are most people 100% happy with their gear? There’s always room for tweaking and improvement !


----------



## MarshallDog

Len said:


> Are most people 100% happy with their gear? There’s always room for tweaking and improvement !



Im a out 99% happy/pleased with mine! Maybe a tube roll here or there but nothing major at this time.


----------



## coyote

Len said:


> Are most people 100% happy with their gear? There’s always room for tweaking and improvement !


Obviously not, else the business would be out of business. lol

I’m happy with mine. After my tweaks, it’s close enough to the sound in my head that I’ve no need to chase further. So what’s left?

Play the damn thing!


----------



## AlanH

Len said:


> Are most people 100% happy with their gear? There’s always room for tweaking and improvement !



As a matter of fact they are. The internet closes for good first thing Monday morning.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

AlanH said:


> As a matter of fact they are. The internet closes for good first thing Monday morning.


Good lord I hope not! Where will I be able to chat with all my Marshall buds?


----------



## Jon C

@Len …… Thanks for your input over on TGP … scored a 2014 DSL40C today .. I'll pop it open in in the morning and pull C19 out and stick a V30 in there …… Thinking about your other mods …… maybe I'll give it a go like that for a jam or two .. I plugged one of my Closed Back V30 112 boxes in and it is a noticeable difference right away ……


----------



## whitecloud

Jon C said:


> @Len …… Thanks for your input over on TGP … scored a 2014 DSL40C today .. I'll pop it open in in the morning and pull C19 out and stick a V30 in there …… Thinking about your other mods …… maybe I'll give it a go like that for a jam or two .. I plugged one of my Closed Back V30 112 boxes in and it is a noticeable difference right away ……


Welcome to the forum. You can introduce yourself on that sub forum if you haven't already. Wonder if that V30 will sound quite a bit different it the DSL40c combo vs the closed back, but I guess you'll find out soon enough


----------



## Clifdawg

Just some drop D shenanigans to start off everyone's Monday Morning. Just a Gibson SG, a cable, and a DSL40C. Enjoy!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Clifdawg said:


> Just some drop D shenanigans to start off everyone's Monday Morning. Just a Gibson SG, a cable, and a DSL40C. Enjoy!



Nice shenanigans, you should do some more, I liked the way you put a contrasting melody at the end, before going back to the intro


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

https://youtu.be/fzZeh4uKsxYnot drop d but whatever d standard is dropped  I know I have posted this before, but a pair of dsl40c’s, and a little magic with a vox tone lab


----------



## Bucky Berg

Well, after comparing my Carvin V3M into a 2x12 Marshall cab and my DSL40c running 2 Eminence CV75 s (one in amp, one in 1x12 cab), I have to give the DSL the nod. The Carvin sounds great but the Marshall just has more teeth, bite and dimension.


----------



## Jon C

whitecloud said:


> Welcome to the forum. You can introduce yourself on that sub forum if you haven't already. Wonder if that V30 will sound quite a bit different it the DSL40c combo vs the closed back, but I guess you'll find out soon enough


Thanks for the Hello @whitecloud .. I've been lurking around for a bit .. Did some reversible modding on a 401 with help from @JohnH about a year ago .. Getting ready to open up this 40C this afternoon .. gotta hit the electronics store for some parts first .. wish me luck !!


----------



## AlanH

Jon C said:


> Thanks for the Hello @whitecloud .. I've been lurking around for a bit .. Did some reversible modding on a 401 with help from @JohnH about a year ago .. Getting ready to open up this 40C this afternoon .. gotta hit the electronics store for some parts first .. wish me luck !!



Don't rush to snip that cap. If you play your 40C as two amps at band volumes it's not needed. Green crunch set to just break up or clean and Red 1 set overdriven JCM800ish do not need EQ changes between them. Both channels set that way are much better pushed with pedals for more saturation or volume.

Welcome and HNMAD, BTW.


----------



## ken361

agree


----------



## Jon C

AlanH said:


> Don't rush to snip that cap. If you play your 40C as two amps at band volumes it's not needed. Green crunch set to just break up or clean and Red 1 set overdriven JCM800ish do not need EQ changes between them. Both channels set that way are much better pushed with pedals for more saturation or volume.
> 
> Welcome and HNMAD, BTW.


Thanks Guys !!
@ken361 too !!
It's not in my DNA
Too Late !!
100pF/X/440pF Mini DPDT Mod @ C19 Done !
Weber Blue Dog in there 1st up..
Might pop the 70/80 or a V30 in there later..
Already finding the options super useful !!!
https://www.thegearpage.net/board/i...00pf-x-440pf-mod-rocks.1992287/#post-27484427
Thanks for the support @Len


----------



## Jon C

View media item 10328View media item 10329Apropos mod shots


----------



## jericbrazier

BftGibson said:


> you can assign the MV to compensate for that also, but i do understand your position. It is jus frustrating when that delay happens and with a vol drop off....if there was 1 weak point in this amp it is that. Sorta makes no sense that the clean(green) really is that low compared to red on same channel. But you can assign the MV to compensate.


I’ve never had an issue with the volume dropping when switching channels, both channels have their own volume knob. Turn the clean channel up to match the drive channel. 
I’ve found the amp has a big volume jump between green clean and green crunch. I can’t footswitch between these two modes, so it’s not an issue for me when rehearsing/gigging, obviously ymmv.


----------



## BftGibson

on mine..classic channel green is lower than red.i have since run a clean boost to kick it up so strumming chords volume is equal to lead switch on red or over to Ultra channel . Got the amp level on all channels..really has become a 4 channel amp in a way. A clean and 3 dif gain options that are all usable in progressive increments

edit---- i just realized this is a 40c thread..mine is 40cr


----------



## AlanH

Jon C said:


> View media item 10328View media item 10329Apropos mod shots



OK Jon, despite my earlier caution you've now got my attention (as someone who can bias, drain caps and change a fuse; and can solder a bit).

What parts and what's the exact procedure?


----------



## Jon C

AlanH said:


> OK Jon, despite my earlier caution you've now got my attention (as someone who can bias, drain caps and change a fuse; and can solder a bit).
> 
> What parts and what's the exact procedure?


Hi Alan,
Parts:
DPDT Mini Switch On/Off/On
100pF Poly Cap
Two 220pf Poly Caps to achieve 440pF ( in parallel due to ready availability )
all caps were 100v but they were what was available yesterday @ shop
a scrap of 18ga braided copper

Steps:
Removed the speaker
Pulled Amp Chassis out and used the Combo Enclosure as a stand off
6or7mm ( 1/4" over here ) to punch a hole through the face plate
Taped some paper in there to catch the debris
Pre made switch assembly with Caps across ON lugs
Sacrificed the C19 cap to leave TinPins
Used 30 Watt Hot quick and fast as to not disturb PCB traces
Slapped it together and Rocked Out


----------



## Jon C

@AlanH .. Upon reviewing my gut shot I can see I left a glob on top of C23 .. D'OH !! I'll get in there and clean up my mess tonight ...


----------



## _ripper_

A poor man's way to maybe test this mod before you actually do it is to run the red channel's gain at 10 (which removes the bright cap from the circuit) and compensate by rolling down your guitar's volume knob a bit to the point where the perceived gain is the same as you usually use.


----------



## Jon C

_ripper_ said:


> A poor man's way to maybe test this mod before you actually do it is to run the red channel's gain at 10 (which removes the bright cap from the circuit) and compensate by rolling down your guitar's volume knob a bit to the point where the perceived gain is the same as you usually use.


Agreed .. Good advise for anyone .. As for me .. I can't leave stuff alone .. The most rewarding thing I discovered right away was the Lower Level Tone Options that were now instantly available .. The 440pico was definitely a plus once I pushed the Red .. Glad I have the instantly accessible options


----------



## AlanH

Jon C said:


> Hi Alan,
> Parts:
> DPDT Mini Switch On/Off/On
> 100pF Poly Cap
> Two 220pf Poly Caps to achieve 440pF ( in parallel due to ready availability )
> all caps were 100v but they were what was available yesterday @ shop
> a scrap of 18ga braided copper
> 
> Steps:
> Removed the speaker
> Pulled Amp Chassis out and used the Combo Enclosure as a stand off
> 6or7mm ( 1/4" over here ) to punch a hole through the face plate
> Taped some paper in there to catch the debris
> Pre made switch assembly with Caps across ON lugs
> Sacrificed the C19 cap to leave TinPins
> Used 30 Watt Hot quick and fast as to not disturb PCB traces
> Slapped it together and Rocked Out



Thanks for that, Jon.


----------



## Jon C

AlanH said:


> Thanks for that, Jon.


"A little bit , of what you fancy , always does you good !!"


----------



## Jon C

Jon C said:


> @AlanH .. Upon reviewing my gut shot I can see I left a glob on top of C23 .. D'OH !! I'll get in there and clean up my mess tonight ...


Done !! Took the opportunity to get a better shot of the Switch Assembly












Image



__ Jon C
__ Nov 13, 2018



C19 option


----------



## KraftyBob

Jon C said:


> Thanks Guys !!
> @ken361 too !!
> It's not in my DNA
> Too Late !!
> 100pF/X/440pF Mini DPDT Mod @ C19 Done !
> Weber Blue Dog in there 1st up..
> Might pop the 70/80 or a V30 in there later..
> Already finding the options super useful !!!
> https://www.thegearpage.net/board/i...00pf-x-440pf-mod-rocks.1992287/#post-27484427
> Thanks for the support @Len


Sheesh - such a procrastinator. What took you so long LOL?

Nice work BTW!


----------



## AlanH

Jon C said:


> "A little bit , of what you fancy , always does you good !!"


----------



## Jon C

AlanH said:


>



Biff !!!! I got to see them with RJD Black Sabbath!!! ( crusader / mob rules era )


----------



## AlanH

I saw them here in the UK on their Rock the Nations tour. Managed to get to the front. Superb!


----------



## Jon C

Did they have DSL40Cs ?? ( on topic qualifier )


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Jon C said:


> Did they have DSL40Cs ?? ( on topic qualifier )


 Ahhh way to get a brilliant (back on topic)


----------



## Jon C

Repurposed slice from a Crate FS fit that little space left on this jam pedal board for a Channel Switch !!
Even got an LED indicator in there !!! 
Upper pic shows OD channel with LED off
Lower pic shows Clean with LED on ...
George is there for size refView media item 10338


----------



## Jon C

Updated thoughts on doing the C19 Option Mod……
I did a DPDT mini switch with 440pf on one side and 100pF on the other , center position cutting the cap out all together…… 
It's been about 10 days of doinking with various volumes and stuff 
So far my take away is that I'm very pleased with the tonal variations 
Especially useful at Bed Room vs Jam Session vs Lead Guitar Rock Club volumes 
I find I'm using all three options with Cutout and 100pico the most
Just goes to show that I don't get to do the Lead Guitar Rock Club thing too much


----------



## Jon C

Having some fun up here !! Just sayin………


----------



## jericbrazier

Guitar Rod said:


> I'm running a Greenback in mine. Great sound. Pure classic rock. Still wary to crank it in 40w mode. Run in triode when I want to get loud. Or split the wattage between my cab and the Greenback. Anyone run one loud at 40w?


I always run mine at 40. Way more headroom on the cleans, and the lead channels sound bigger, amp lus the 40 watts isn’t a lot louder than 20watts.


----------



## Jon C

Tonight it's been the 60 watt Weber Blue Dog in the Combo and a V30 in a Closed Back Extension ……… Marshall AF !!!!!


----------



## Jon C

Did I say I was having a blast ??


----------



## Jon C

jericbrazier said:


> I always run mine at 40. Way more headroom on the cleans, and the lead channels sound bigger, amp lus the 40 watts isn’t a lot louder than 20watts.


I keep mine in pentode as well ……


----------



## coyote

Jon C said:


> Updated thoughts on doing the C19 Option Mod……
> I did a DPDT mini switch with 440pf on one side and 100pF on the other , center position cutting the cap out all together……
> It's been about 10 days of doinking with various volumes and stuff
> So far my take away is that I'm very pleased with the tonal variations


Yep. It really makes a big difference in the usefulness of the Red channel. Interestingly I find myself using the 470 setting about half the time that I’m using the red channel, despite not liking it at all when I first got the amp.

It’s made the amp incredibly versatile, while always sounding like a Marshall. Red 1, three options - Red 2, three options, Green Crunch, and Green Clean. All without changing tone knobs a bit. Bass is all the way off. Only knob I ever have to touch is the Green Volume knob when using the Clean mode (have to turn it up).

Green Clean: G8, V8
Green Crunch: G8, V5
Red: G4, V4

T6, M6, B0, P7, R7
Tone shift off
both reverbs maxed

It’s fecken loud.... and sounds awesome.


----------



## SlapHand

Hi all!
So I finally finished reading this whole thread

A question/rant that often is repeated is the «hot» bias these amps come with from the factory... Most find that Marshall bias the DSL40c in the 40-45mA range. Waaay to hot... or?

A few months back, I bought the Pro One Bias Probe from Eurotubes. The one that has a meter that show both plate Voltage and mA. When checking measurements between the probe and the internal pins for measuring the bias in the DSL, I found a difference about 6mA. If I set the bias to say 38 with the probe, it would show 44mA at the test point.

I contacted Eurotubes about this and they responded like this:

«You calculations are correct. Here's what is going on.

As you may know, there are different methods of measuring tube current. If you split the plate connection at the tube socket and insert your current measuring device there, you get the most accurate plate current reading. If you split the cathode similarly, you get the plate current PLUS the screen current. Since most test points are based on a 1 ohm resistor in series with the cathode, whose voltage drop represents one millivolt per milliamp of current through the tube, they also show the sum of the plate and the screen. This is the case with the DSL 40C. We usually suggest you set the bias to 40-45mv at the test points, which gets you an actual plate current of around 38mA.»

Edit: i lost a lot of text when posting this... I’m at my phone so I wont type it all again... Anyhow, the bone of the post is above.

What do you think?


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

I also have read the entire thread, excellent information here, and a staple of the information throughout the entire forum!!  Please enjoy yor amp I certainly have mine


----------



## ken361

PV 450 to 500 32 to 34 is good.


----------



## SlapHand

Thx for chiming in, Ken!

I have noticed you are one that advocates for setting the bias low (compared to what most shoot for)

How do you find your numbers? If by taking readings from the internal test points, your actual plate current would be way below 30. Dont get me wrong. I don't say its bad. One should go for what sounds best and you have proved your point by the clips you've provided to this thread.

I also have a JMP 2204 that I always have set 38-39´ish.(70%) Its chewing PT´s and I'm sure it could benefit from a little colder bias.


----------



## ken361

My tech is one of Michigans best and highly recommend. He said setting it high wont really sound better but cause more heat in the chassis and could cause more issues and plus burn the tubes out quicker. Its mostly preamp distortion so high wont help except make it more raspy and bright. I tried 30,32,36

36 sounded brighter dirtier in a sorta bad way a little messy not as clear sounding less warmth on the red channel. Dave Friedman sets his at 32 also.


----------



## ken361

60% is recommend for the DSL's try it high and jam loud and stand like 15 feet away to really hear the amp and determine what you like. Lot of people on Facebook really liked the lower bias settings.


----------



## rodrigoeliedson

Hi guys! Today I converted my DSL40c to head. It sounds great plug into an orange 2x12 closed back cabinet.


----------



## K2JLX

rodrigoeliedson said:


> Hi guys! Today I converted my DSL40c to head. It sounds great plug into an orange 2x12 closed back cabinet.
> 
> View attachment 52703
> 
> View attachment 52707
> 
> View attachment 52705




Very clean, kudos !


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

rodrigoeliedson said:


> Hi guys! Today I converted my DSL40c to head. It sounds great plug into an orange 2x12 closed back cabinet.
> 
> View attachment 52703
> 
> View attachment 52707
> 
> View attachment 52705


Very well done my brother, and I know that it sounds good through your cab, as my grandson has the same cab


----------



## coyote

rodrigoeliedson said:


> Hi guys! Today I converted my DSL40c to head. It sounds great plug into an orange 2x12 closed back cabinet.
> 
> View attachment 52703
> 
> View attachment 52707
> 
> View attachment 52705


Looks great!


----------



## Exojam

Very nice looking.

What cabinet model of the Orange do you have?


----------



## KraftyBob

rodrigoeliedson said:


> Hi guys! Today I converted my DSL40c to head. It sounds great plug into an orange 2x12 closed back cabinet.
> 
> View attachment 52703
> 
> View attachment 52707
> 
> View attachment 52705


Nice job!


----------



## rodrigoeliedson

Exojam said:


> Very nice looking.
> 
> What cabinet model of the Orange do you have?



PPC212 closed back with V30 speakers


----------



## Exojam

Thank you.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Sorry to put anyone off but I have not put a clip in this thread for a bit!! This is a new piece I am trying to put together


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow




----------



## coyote

Months ago I ordered LEDs to modify the channel/reverb selector pedal. The LEDs never arrived; the order is still out there.

I miss Radio Shack.


----------



## Micky

coyote said:


> Months ago I ordered LEDs to modify the channel/reverb selector pedal. The LEDs never arrived; the order is still out there.
> 
> I miss Radio Shack.


Stuck on the slow boat... Oh how I know the feeling.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Plus the convenience of just running down to their store and walking out with what you need!


----------



## Tom1984

Hello Everybody.
I just registered the forum because I am out of ideas or inspiration with the DSL40C.
For a little over a year I own one but it causes me some frustration.
Up to the point that I want to sell it.
But before that I registered here to ask for help.
I read this topic a few times before to see if I am doing something wrong or not.
Many people like this amp so there must be something good in it.
However I am not able to get a descent tone out of it at all.
I switched to my Boss Katana and get better tones out of it.
Something must be wrong with me or the amp.

I own a PRS CE24 and a Fender stratocaster CP60 with customshop 69 pickups in it.
Mainly I play with slightly overdriven tone like SRV, Hendrix, Mayer, Gilmour.
Sometimes AC/DC, Bonamassa.

I use the green side most of the time, the red is to my ears not usable at all.
So I make my way with pedals.
The red channel sounds like somebody scraches a fork over an iron plate distorted to my ears.
Even with low gain settings the distortion sounds plastic, fizz, harsh, thin.

On the green channel it is more or less ok but also there the overdrive or crunch sounds thin and
fizz. As if the overdrive is not in the tone but lays on top of the tone if that makes sence?

When I use the gain on green between 8 and 10 the clean tone is full and round.
When I back the gain down to 4-6, the bass and fullness of the tone changes to thin and shrill.
Why does the gain influence the EQ so much? Is there only 1 sweetspot to this?

Even with pedals the drive seems to be off, as it are 2 different tones next to each other and not 1.

I measured the Bias which was nicely in the 38.4 range as I read in this topic is ok.
I tried to use the 20W setting to crank the amp more at home. Some say at low volumes the signal 
get squeezed and becomes thin. So volume is at 4 and gain between 8-10 on clean and 6 on crunch.

I did not do the C19 mod or swap the speaker because I don't know if this is normal or not.
The tubes are all original. Does this sound like a tube issue?

I realy would like this amp to work. I spent countless hours over the last 3 months to get the thing to work finally.
Untill now I am not succesfull as you can read.....
Hopefully someone can give me any advice to try out. 

I would be thankfull for any help or advice.

Best regards from a confused/frustrated Belgian!


----------



## AlanH

If you've tried playing with higher volume and lower gain (seems you have) go for EQs next. You should be able to use a flatter EQ at higher volumes, perhaps with less treble and slightly more mids, with bass as around 12 O'Clock. Presence around 3 and resonance at around 8 on the dials sounds nice to me ears for tightening the bottom end and sweetening the top end. If none of this improves your tone try a new preamp tube in each of the four sockets.


----------



## ken361

Bias is way to hot go for 32 the red channel will be much smoother!


----------



## Kinkless Tetrode

Try a warmer/ lower gain 12AX7 in V1. The Gold Lion standard pin is warmer/sweeter than most without being opaque. Maybe a Mullard reissue Mid Gain (CV4004), or a 5751.
Also if you use low gain settings on the reds, you may need a lower value brite cap.


----------



## Bownse

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> Plus the convenience of just running down to their store and walking out with what you need!



But that ended long before they closed their doors. They lost their way and became a place that housed underpowered RC toys and cell phone cases.


----------



## AlanH

@Tom1984, just to add, a use Tung Sol in V1 (claimed by my valve supplier to reduce fizz in high gain amps); the double red dotted (balanced each side) stock Marshall-branded valve in V2; a JJ in V3; and a high gain lop-sided Electro Harmonix in V4. This is a very cheap way of getting sweet tones from.the DSL40C IMO. I bias at 38 by the way....


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Tom1984 said:


> Hello Everybody.
> I just registered the forum because I am out of ideas or inspiration with the DSL40C.
> For a little over a year I own one but it causes me some frustration.
> Up to the point that I want to sell it.
> But before that I registered here to ask for help.
> I read this topic a few times before to see if I am doing something wrong or not.
> Many people like this amp so there must be something good in it.
> However I am not able to get a descent tone out of it at all.
> I switched to my Boss Katana and get better tones out of it.
> Something must be wrong with me or the amp.
> 
> I own a PRS CE24 and a Fender stratocaster CP60 with customshop 69 pickups in it.
> Mainly I play with slightly overdriven tone like SRV, Hendrix, Mayer, Gilmour.
> Sometimes AC/DC, Bonamassa.
> 
> I use the green side most of the time, the red is to my ears not usable at all.
> So I make my way with pedals.
> The red channel sounds like somebody scraches a fork over an iron plate distorted to my ears.
> Even with low gain settings the distortion sounds plastic, fizz, harsh, thin.
> 
> On the green channel it is more or less ok but also there the overdrive or crunch sounds thin and
> fizz. As if the overdrive is not in the tone but lays on top of the tone if that makes sence?
> 
> When I use the gain on green between 8 and 10 the clean tone is full and round.
> When I back the gain down to 4-6, the bass and fullness of the tone changes to thin and shrill.
> Why does the gain influence the EQ so much? Is there only 1 sweetspot to this?
> 
> Even with pedals the drive seems to be off, as it are 2 different tones next to each other and not 1.
> 
> I measured the Bias which was nicely in the 38.4 range as I read in this topic is ok.
> I tried to use the 20W setting to crank the amp more at home. Some say at low volumes the signal
> get squeezed and becomes thin. So volume is at 4 and gain between 8-10 on clean and 6 on crunch.
> 
> I did not do the C19 mod or swap the speaker because I don't know if this is normal or not.
> The tubes are all original. Does this sound like a tube issue?
> 
> I realy would like this amp to work. I spent countless hours over the last 3 months to get the thing to work finally.
> Untill now I am not succesfull as you can read.....
> Hopefully someone can give me any advice to try out.
> 
> I would be thankfull for any help or advice.
> 
> Best regards from a confused/frustrated Belgian!


Welcome to the forum, you are in good hands here trust me I have gained more knowledge from this forum, than I ever picked up the old fashioned way!! Cheers Mitch


----------



## Tom1984

ken361 said:


> Bias is way to hot go for 32 the red channel will be much smoother!


I biassed at 31,5-32 yesterday. That is definateley an improvement, thank you!


----------



## Tom1984

AlanH said:


> @Tom1984, just to add, a use Tung Sol in V1 (claimed by my valve supplier to reduce fizz in high gain amps); the double red dotted (balanced each side) stock Marshall-branded valve in V2; a JJ in V3; and a high gain lop-sided Electro Harmonix in V4. This is a very cheap way of getting sweet tones from.the DSL40C IMO. I bias at 38 by the way....







Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> Welcome to the forum, you are in good hands here trust me I have gained more knowledge from this forum, than I ever picked up the old fashioned way!! Cheers Mitch



Thanks for the warm welcome!
I already learned a lot from this topic, but this is realy something new and different for me.

I will check availability of those tubes here and I might try this. I don't realy understand the difference with the standard however. It would be the first time I change tube to change an amps sound.


----------



## AlanH

Tom1984 said:


> Thanks for the warm welcome!
> I already learned a lot from this topic, but this is realy something new and different for me.
> 
> I will check availability of those tubes here and I might try this. I don't realy understand the difference with the standard however. It would be the first time I change tube to change an amps sound.



This might help...

http://www.marshallforum.com/threads/tube-facts-and-info-by-martystrat54.27574/


----------



## whitecloud

Tom1984 said:


> I biassed at 31,5-32 yesterday. That is definateley an improvement, thank you!


I put a Warehouse Veteran 30 in my DSL40c and it is a major upgrade from the stock seventy/80 speaker. WGS are very reasonably priced alternative to Celestion. That said I am sure others may recommend one of Celestion's offerings that mate well with this amp over stock speaker


----------



## Micky

whitecloud said:


> I put a Warehouse Veteran 30 in my DSL40c and it is a major upgrade from the stock seventy/80 speaker. WGS are very reasonably priced alternative to Celestion. That said I am sure others may recommend one of Celestion's offerings that mate well with this amp over stock speaker


Just about anything is an upgrade/improvement over the Seventy/80 stock speaker.
There are those who love it, (the Seventy/80) and I am sure there are thousands of gigging musicians that are using it on a daily basis. There are also thousands who have replaced it. It is all a matter of your taste in tone.

Personally I feel the Seventy/80 is better suited for a closed-back cab. I have heard them in a 1X12 as well as a 2X12 and I think they sound awesome in that application. Just a matter of taste I guess.

Just because it is a lower-priced OEM speaker don't immediately assume it is no good. Once broken in they sound OK to me. I do prefer, however, American made Eminence or Warehouse (WGS) speakers. I will always use them when I can.


----------



## Bownse

I originally swapped out the Severty/80 for a Celestion G12T-75. When I split my 40c into a head/cab design with a 2x12 closed-back cab, I used them both because they were handy. I like the results.

The brittleness of the Seventy/80 is mitigated by the warmth of the G12T-75.


----------



## end user

I don't claim to be a Marshall Guru or anything but I think a lot of the people that are having issues with these are not turning them up. To me the DSL 40c doesnt start to sound good until you get to about 3 on the volume of either Channel and you have to run the gain high also. This is when this amp shines even with just the 70-80 in it.

Using them as low-volume practice or recording amps is a recipe for disappointment if you ask me.

Turn way up in order to shine. Don't forget about the volume and tone knobs on your guitar either. The way I use mine it pretty much makes it a 3 channel amp.

Crazy good and that's with the stock speaker.

I've been buying and using amplifiers for over 35 years now.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

The only time I crank the gain is on the crunch green, red one goes to 5 + - ! Red 2 3.5 or less and I agree you have to turn it up to hear it sing! Cheers Mitch


----------



## Achysklic

Last week I got a new Dsl40cr. With all the knobs on zero and nothing pluggedin it had a constant like wind blowing noise. Nothing would increase it or decrease it. Production date was 1-18. A Marshall tech said they had issues with certain resistors on the early runs. I returned it and got a new replacement today date 4-18, it’s dead quiet and sounds amazing.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Achysklic said:


> Last week I got a new Dsl40cr. With all the knobs on zero and nothing pluggedin it had a constant like wind blowing noise. Nothing would increase it or decrease it. Production date was 1-18. A Marshall tech said they had issues with certain resistors on the early runs. I returned it and got a new replacement today date 4-18, it’s dead quiet and sounds amazing.


Good you got it sorted out brother, and welcome to the forum!! Cheers Mitch


----------



## cspencer

DSMer said:


> I have installed *Classic Tone 40-18025* output transformer and *40-18058* 3H choke on my DSL40c. It sure made a huge difference. The combination of both made my amp ballsier and a bit louder and this is with the stock speaker. I can't imagine what would it sound like once I put the V30 in there.


Hi, I was about to click "buy now" for a Classic Tone OT/PT/Choke bundle http://www.triodeelectronics.com/50wplexibundle.html. Then, I realised they were 50 watt and may cause volume loss. Just wondering if that's true. Then, I saw Hammond had a few 50 watt OTs within my budget and wondered if they were better to match my DSL40CR. I also prefer the tone of paper vs bobbin http://www.classictone.net/PaperVsPlastic.html. Any comments appreciated.


----------



## jericbrazier

ken361 said:


> 60% is recommend for the DSL's try it high and jam loud and stand like 15 feet away to really hear the amp and determine what you like. Lot of people on Facebook really liked the lower bias settings.


I have mine at 35, and it’s the best I’ve found. It came from the factory really high, like 41 or something is what my tech told me when he biased. Is 35 considered low?


----------



## ken361

jericbrazier said:


> I have mine at 35, and it’s the best I’ve found. It came from the factory really high, like 41 or something is what my tech told me when he biased. Is 35 considered low?


its a little high IMO 32 was my sweet spot at the plate voltage 480


----------



## jericbrazier

ken361 said:


> its a little high IMO 32 was my sweet spot at the plate voltage 480


I’ll try that setting next time my tech changes power tubes, thanks.
Curious, I play HEAVY rock, ala Alice In Chains, Tool, Corrosion of Conformity, and originals in the same vein. How would a lower bias setting effect the tone, gain (distortion) wise?


----------



## ken361

warms the red a bit, gain seems less hairy


----------



## Exojam

I added this cabinet (that I purchased from someone on the forum) to my DSL40C and again new level for the amp.

View media item 10377


----------



## Exojam

I will be building a stand for the Mesa since I cannot stand speakers right on the floor, sends the signals bouncing everywhere.


----------



## jericbrazier

ken361 said:


> warms the red a bit, gain seems less hairy


In that case, I’ll leave it where it is. I changed out the speaker for a Swamp Thang, and that upper mid fizz is gone. I want my amp mean and hairy. 
Thanks for the info!


----------



## Exojam

If you want it mean and hairy, change it to use 6550 power tubes like Micky and I did.


----------



## ken361

love this fucking guitar lol what great action and tone


----------



## jericbrazier

Exojam said:


> If you want it mean and hairy, change it to use 6550 power tubes like Micky and I did.


I’m loving how my amp is sounding. If it ain’t broke, I ain’t fixing. I’ve rolled the power tubes and rebiased. Ime, unless it’s a NOS, tube quality is pretty similar, considering they’re all from the same couple factories, and rebranded when bought by JJ, Mullard, etc.


----------



## ricky711

I've tried these speakers in this order and preference.
70/80 stock speaker (just too bright in this amp, Marshall wised up with the V-Type)
Creamback M65 (really doesn't sound like a high powered greenie)
Weber Legacy (vintage crunch, just a bit thin on single notes in upper registers)
ET65 (great crunch, just a touch too bright)
V-Type (great greenie crunch and bite, good choice)
Fane M65 (a better sounding Creamback, smoother than V-Type, good clarity & crunch, no fizz)
A-Type (current favorite, removes any fizzyness, warmer and thicker tone when playing in upper registers. Notes sing! No flubby lows. Still has the Celestion crunch with no spikes)


----------



## Clifdawg

ricky711 said:


> A-Type (current favorite, removes any fizzyness, warmer and thicker tone when playing in upper registers. Notes sing! No flubby lows. Still has the Celestion crunch with no spikes)



Interesting! I wouldn't have thought of the A-type, as that's Celestion answer to a Jensen.

This makes me wonder what a Jensen would sound like in the 40C...


----------



## ken361

A type is American ?


----------



## solarburn

Happy New Years! Stock 70/80. Fuck V type or Jenson. It's like make up. It can't fix ugly. However...Your girl said so.


----------



## solarburn

70/80. Raising guitar volume as I go.




I'm a silly fuk.


----------



## ken361

Welcome back Solar Dog


----------



## MarshallDog

solarburnDSL50 said:


> 70/80. Raising guitar volume as I go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a silly fuk.




Where the hell you been??


----------



## ken361

jail?


----------



## Bownse

ken361 said:


> jail?


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

I have thought you have had enough of us for a while, good to see ya back brother! Cheers Mitch


----------



## ken361

Boosted cleans with the fryette sas first then the soul food, the sas is much more powerful and dynamic when you hear it live similar to a fender cleans. The Soul food is nice also.


----------



## Bownse

Luv my SAS. Heard about them here and was an excellent suggestion.


----------



## ken361

He has the clean boost the bastassio on their site its sweet also


----------



## solarburn

MarshallDog said:


> Where the hell you been??



Licking pussy.


----------



## BanditPanda

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Licking pussy.



In your dreams !  Good to see ya back eh hole !!
BP


----------



## solarburn

BanditPanda said:


> In your dreams !  Good to see ya back eh hole !!
> BP



2019 first day I had so much pussy in my gotee! It made my Marshall jealous. Trooth!


----------



## solarburn

MarshallDog said:


> Where the hell you been??



They put me back on PM shift. Fuckerz!


----------



## solarburn

ken361 said:


> Boosted cleans with the fryette sas first then the soul food, the sas is much more powerful and dynamic when you hear it live similar to a fender cleans. The Soul food is nice also.




I love the playing bud! Make some faces while you play or you r finger sincing!


----------



## solarburn

They just showed a commercial on vaginal dryness...I got wet.


----------



## BanditPanda

solarburnDSL50 said:


> They put me back on PM shift. Fuckerz!



Post Meno no doubt !
BP


----------



## MarshallDog

solarburnDSL50 said:


> They put me back on PM shift. Fuckerz!



Dirty Bastards!!!!


----------



## tmingle

solarburnDSL50 said:


> 2019 first day I had so much pussy in my gotee! It made my Marshall jealous. Trooth!


----------



## Clifdawg

Dialed in a good clone of my DSL40C on my Blackstar ID:Core 10 V2... Nice to know I can carry my tonez around in a <5 lb. box!



ID:Core 10 settings: Super Crunch, Gain 10, Volume 3, ISF 7, Room Reverb (minimal)



DSL40C settings: Pentode - Lead 2, Gain 4, Volume 1, Treble 6, Mids 5, Bass 5, Tone Shift Off, Presence 2, Resonance 7, Reverb 5 (speaker swapped for Eminence Private Jack)

Of course, there was far more bass response from the DSL40C, even at such low volumes, but... Man. My cheap-o Blackstar continues to impress me over a year into ownership. It's my go-to recommendation for new players or parents wanting to get something for their child to start with.


----------



## solarburn

tmingle said:


>




I went and saw Myles Kennedy recently in Seattle. He did some of Stand up and shout from Rock Star. 

Sounded just like his part in the movie...goosebump good.


----------



## MarshallDog

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I went and saw Myles Kennedy recently in Seattle. He did some of Stand up and shout from Rock Star.
> 
> Sounded just like his part in the movie...goosebump good.



Hes one hell of a singer!!!!


----------



## Clifdawg

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I went and saw Myles Kennedy recently in Seattle.



Got to see Alter Bridge live in Birmingham a little over a year ago... I knew he had some killer pipes, but he can _really play the guitar. _Hearing "Blackbird" live is one of my bucket list items, and I was not at all disappointed.


----------



## MarshallDog

Clifdawg said:


> Got to see Alter Bridge live in Birmingham a little over a year ago... I knew he had some killer pipes, but he can _really play the guitar. _Hearing "Blackbird" live is one of my bucket list items, and I was not at all disappointed.



I saw him a few years back with Alter Bridge and he was amazing!!!!


----------



## ken361

actually I believe the singer of Steel Heart did all the vocals for the movie or Myles did some also have to look it up and he can sing I remember them from the 80's


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

[url=https://postimg.cc/SjWD4JmJ]

[/URL] This is part of the 40c mini wall ! Cheers Mitch


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

[url=https://postimg.cc/hQPrM166]

[/URL]. And these are right next to the above photo! Cheers


----------



## ken361

Jube cabs looks sweet wall of sound


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

ken361 said:


> Jube cabs looks sweet wall of sound


Thanks brother but they are all MG cabs ! Cheers Mitch


----------



## ken361

my pc is dimmed at night they look grey


----------



## BftGibson

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> . And these are right next to the above photo! Cheers


every workbench should have these under them ready to rock !!!!!!!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

BftGibson said:


> every workbench should have these under them ready to rock !!!!!!!


Hellss yes


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

BftGibson said:


> every workbench should have these under them ready to rock !!!!!!!


[url=https://postimg.cc/ZB74j3cn]

[/URL] This is the grandsons side, and again under a workbench


----------



## MarshallDog

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> This is part of the 40c mini wall ! Cheers Mitch



That vintage model looks great!!!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

MarshallDog said:


> That vintage model looks great!!!


Thank you, it does look good, and MD if you ever come this way again, please PM me, you should hear it in person! Cheers Mitch


----------



## solarburn

ken361 said:


> actually I believe the singer of Steel Heart did all the vocals for the movie or Myles did some also have to look it up and he can sing I remember them from the 80's




Myles was at the end when he climbed up on stage and took over for Walberg.


----------



## MarshallDog

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> Thank you, it does look good, and MD if you ever come this way again, please PM me, you should hear it in person! Cheers Mitch



Will do and Id love to if/when come again...thanks Budd!!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

MarshallDog said:


> Will do and Id love to if/when come again...thanks Budd!!


No problem brother, I have you covered amp wise, and guitars!


----------



## jericbrazier

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Happy New Years! Stock 70/80. Fuck V type or Jenson. It's like make up. It can't fix ugly. However...Your girl said so.



If I had to imagine or give an example of Marshall kerrang, I would use that tone in the clip! It sounds fantastic. Thanks for posting it. What guitar were you using?


----------



## jericbrazier

ken361 said:


> actually I believe the singer of Steel Heart did all the vocals for the movie or Myles did some also have to look it up and he can sing I remember them from the 80's



I remember that song. Why is it so windy in that hangar, and why does it only blow on the singer? Grade A cheese, ymmv.


----------



## solarburn

jericbrazier said:


> If I had to imagine or give an example of Marshall kerrang, I would use that tone in the clip! It sounds fantastic. Thanks for posting it. What guitar were you using?



Believe it was my EC1000 with Dimarzio SD's.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

jericbrazier said:


> I remember that song. Why is it so windy in that hangar, and why does it only blow on the singer? Grade A cheese, ymmv.


It was the 80’s


----------



## jericbrazier

Herbert Mitchell Pearrow said:


> It was the 80’s


I remember, it was a good time to be a guitarist. I don’t remember it being that windy, lol


----------



## jericbrazier

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Believe it was my EC1000 with Dimarzio SD's.


Sounded killer!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

jericbrazier said:


> I remember, it was a good time to be a guitarist. I don’t remember it being that windy, lol


It was but only on the singers


----------



## Bownse

jericbrazier said:


> I remember that song. Why is it so windy in that hangar, and why does it only blow on the singer? Grade A cheese, ymmv.



Angie Tribeca would note that their hair was "extra blowy". Heather Graham would note that her mother's hair was "extra blowy" too.


----------



## jericbrazier

Mitchell Pearrow said:


> It was but only on the singers


Lol


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow




----------



## Exojam

I am loving it! My guitar instructor came by today and as I was meeting him at this door I told him he could just plug into my Marshall if he wanted instead of toting his amp in.

I plugged him in and had it at lead 2 I believe and he started playing around and the first thing he said was that amp has some balls.

So I told him a member here (Micky) turned me on to the power tube mod and I went ahead and did it. He was just loving it. So thanks again Micky!


----------



## Micky

I know. Mine isn't even like a 40c anymore.
I haven't connected it to the test equipment in a while, but I would imagine at full blast it is way over 40 watts. On the Ultra channel there isn't much I can compare it to here, as the other amps I have (except the 5c) are pretty much clean, NMV Fender style. I know it is plenty for a 500 seat theater with a small band, couldn't get it much over 5-6 and be at a comfortable level with the crew.
I wish I could snag a 40cr, but I can't justify it at this time. No room, really unless I get rid of a lot of the PA stuff I still have. But I know what you mean, it has balls and it is still versatile enough to do everything else.
I love the fact you are loving yours, I will never get rid of mine...


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

And I won’t be parting with any of mine either  Mitch


----------



## coyote

Mitchell Pearrow said:


> It was but only on the singers


I dunno.... every time I’ve seen Steve Vai play, he has that windy thing going on. To the tune of a Heart song:

C’mon down boy, play that guitar
It looks real windy on that stage, his locks are blowin, hard
But try to understand, try to understand
Try, try, try to understand....
He’s got magic hair.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

coyote said:


> I dunno.... every time I’ve seen Steve Vai play, he has that windy thing going on. To the tune of a Heart song:
> 
> C’mon down boy, play that guitar
> It looks real windy on that stage, his locks are blowin, hard
> But try to understand, try to understand
> Try, try, try to understand....
> He’s got magic hair.


Good one! Cheers


----------



## solarburn

coyote said:


> I dunno.... every time I’ve seen Steve Vai play, he has that windy thing going on. To the tune of a Heart song:
> 
> C’mon down boy, play that guitar
> It looks real windy on that stage, his locks are blowin, hard
> But try to understand, try to understand
> Try, try, try to understand....
> He’s got magic hair.


----------



## jeffb

I have been jerking around with my DSL lately with the Rockcrusher and having fun with the green crunch. I'll see if I can get a clip up this w/e.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow




----------



## CoyotesGator

Mitchell Pearrow said:


>





Man, that brings back memories.

Somewhere out there is an early '90's or very late '80's white LP Studio that has/had a set of dirty fingers pickups from my 1983 Flying V.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

CoyotesGator said:


> Man, that brings back memories.
> 
> Somewhere out there is an early '90's or very late '80's white LP Studio that has/had a set of dirty fingers pickups from my 1983 Flying V.


My 2018 V has the dirty fingers pups, thank you for the compliment, my 2011 studio is an amazing workhorse, it shall never leave here! Cheers Mitch


----------



## jeffb

EDIT- see my next post. I removed this viid.

Welp here is a more modern crunchy tone. I will have to post another clip soon. With the help of the Rockcrusher, I've also been able to pretty much duplicate the tone I get out of my Origin. The DSL has to have the master floored though. un-doable at home for most folks without an attenuator.

excuse the flubs- my CTS is not being kind to me this morning.


----------



## KraftyBob

jeffb said:


> Welp here is a more modern crunchy tone. I will have to post another clip soon. With the help of the Rockcrusher, I've also been able to pretty much duplicate the tone I get out of my Origin. The DSL has to have the master floored though. un-doable at home for most folks without an attenuator.
> 
> excuse the flubs- my CTS is not being kind to me this morning.



Nice tone and chops - I like it!


----------



## Angus Rhoads

Nice clips guys. I had posted these a year & change ago, but what the heck, time to dig 'em back out:

Classic Lead on Crunch, one of my LPs but I don't remember which (I kick in a Maxon OD9 at 1:20 for the Reeling intro):


This is my Jackson, EMG 81 into Ultra Lead 2, Maxon analog delay, amp settings in the picture:


Zakk cover, also Lead 2 with my LP Classic, 500T bridge p/u (I think there was a BOSS Super Chorus in the loop but can't recall for sure):


----------



## ken361

bedroom levels
was a little wired today playing fast at times lol


----------



## jeffb

I posted the wrong video-

Here is the one I meant to post- Lead 1 until about 2min, then green crunch.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Damm everyone’s clips kick ass good to hear that these 40c’s ripping is not a fluke by any means  Cheers Mitch


----------



## Angus Rhoads

ken361 said:


> bedroom levels
> was a little wired today playing fast at times lol



Ken, I know you've changed speakers a couple of times, what are you running now? Sounds pretty crunchy, back to the ET65?


----------



## Angus Rhoads

Mitchell Pearrow said:


> Damm everyone’s clips kick ass good to hear that these 40c’s ripping is not a fluke by any means  Cheers Mitch


Nah, no fluke, DSLs are the real deal, with the right speaker it's damn close to my JVM, just a little more old-school flavored. Anyway, people get way too serious about this stuff sometimes, it's rock n' roll man, I'm just having fun!


----------



## ken361

Angus Rhoads said:


> Ken, I know you've changed speakers a couple of times, what are you running now? Sounds pretty crunchy, back to the ET65?


creamback


----------



## Angus Rhoads

ken361 said:


> creamback


Ah, that makes more sense. Gotta keep an eye out for a good used one (I don't buy new anymore, Celestions are getting too expensive).


----------



## ken361

Yeah I got it used! GC I saw a bunch of new Celestions marked down the other day. The EVH is really touch sensitive also great action and bends are super easy ! Its a fast playing guitar if you have the chops which I don't have too well with scales and all.


Angus Rhoads said:


> Ah, that makes more sense. Gotta keep an eye out for a good used one (I don't buy new anymore, Celestions are getting too expensive).[/QUO


----------



## Angus Rhoads

ken361 said:


> Yeah I got it used! GC I saw a bunch of new Celestions marked down the other day. The EVH is really touch sensitive also great action and bends are super easy ! Its a fast playing guitar if you have the chops which I don't have too well with scales and all.


Sounds good to me, dude. Chops isn't all about scales & leads, Malcolm Young was proof of that. Heck, I like Eddie's rhythm playing better than his lead. (I know, I just asked for it there...)
Does that EVH have the Frankenstein humbucker? I've been eyeing either one of those or a Charvel Pro Mod. The newer MIM stuff seems really good.


----------



## jeffb

Angus Rhoads said:


> Heck, I like Eddie's rhythm playing better than his lead. (I know, I just asked for it there...)
> .



Considering all his amazing lead chops and how he changed rock guitar, I agree- He's an even better rhythm player.


----------



## Angus Rhoads

jeffb said:


> Considering all his amazing lead chops and how he changed rock guitar, I agree- He's an even better rhythm player.


Right? I'm not putting down his lead playing at all, but he's a fantastic rhythm player and people hardly ever mention that. There's so much going on it's hard to believe it's just one guy doing all that.


----------



## ken361

Angus Rhoads said:


> Sounds good to me, dude. Chops isn't all about scales & leads, Malcolm Young was proof of that. Heck, I like Eddie's rhythm playing better than his lead. (I know, I just asked for it there...)
> Does that EVH have the Frankenstein humbucker? I've been eyeing either one of those or a Charvel Pro Mod. The newer MIM stuff seems really good.


Its the Wolfgang pups I did have the Frankenstein in the peavey Wolfgang when I had it which was greater IMO.


----------



## ken361

I like the newer MIM ones because the pickups were set better at the right height , 2mm low E 1 mm or so high E I just remember them I remember them pretty high could not bond with them for some reason.


----------



## solarburn

Angus Rhoads said:


> Nice clips guys. I had posted these a year & change ago, but what the heck, time to dig 'em back out:
> 
> Classic Lead on Crunch, one of my LPs but I don't remember which (I kick in a Maxon OD9 at 1:20 for the Reeling intro):
> 
> 
> This is my Jackson, EMG 81 into Ultra Lead 2, Maxon analog delay, amp settings in the picture:
> 
> 
> Zakk cover, also Lead 2 with my LP Classic, 500T bridge p/u (I think there was a BOSS Super Chorus in the loop but can't recall for sure):


----------



## syscokid

Can anyone confirm on the DSL40C if R15 (Plate resistor for V1A) is 220K? 

The schematic shows 220K, but I'm not positive this is correct. I've yet to find a good gut shot of this part of the circuit.


----------



## Micky

What makes you think it is not correct?
Why not open it up if you need to verify?

My experience has been that the schematic is very accurate unless you have modded the circuit yourself...


----------



## Micky

Here you go...


----------



## ken361

mitch this thing sounds great on both amps loud!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow




----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

ken361 said:


> mitch this thing sounds great on both amps loud!



I would have to agree with you on that Ken, it does sound good on both amps, I would also go as far as saying that it would sound good on an MG as well, once again congratulations on your new ax brother! Cheers to good tones and playing into the next year! Mitch


----------



## ken361

Mitchell Pearrow said:


>



Like the tones and camera work


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

ken361 said:


> Like the tones and camera work


Thanks brother, that’s all 3 dsl40c’s, and the mosfet, with the mxr 10 band eq, 2 40c’s on red 1, gain at 3,volume at 3, 1 on green crunch, volume 4 , gain at 5, mosfet is on 2, all 4 mg cabs, and 3 70/80’s going! Cheers brother’s


----------



## tce63

Mitchell Pearrow said:


>




Sounds just great, Cheers


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

tce63 said:


> Sounds just great, Cheers


Thanks brother I appreciate you taking the time to check it out


----------



## CincyPaul

Couple songs I recorded using the DSL40C, with some pedals. Hope you like it!


Marshall DSL40c appears at 1:41 mins in.


Marshall DSL40c appears at 1:43 mins in.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

CincyPaul said:


> Couple songs I recorded using the DSL40C, with some pedals. Hope you like it!
> 
> 
> Marshall DSL40c appears at 1:41 mins in.
> 
> 
> Marshall DSL40c appears at 1:43 mins in.



First up welcome to the forum, you my newest brother are quite talented, both clips are very professional looking and sounding! Cheers Mitch


----------



## KraftyBob

CincyPaul said:


> Couple songs I recorded using the DSL40C, with some pedals. Hope you like it!
> 
> 
> Marshall DSL40c appears at 1:41 mins in.
> 
> 
> Marshall DSL40c appears at 1:43 mins in.



Welcome Cincy. Great videos - very talented!


----------



## Bownse

CincyPaul said:


> Couple songs I recorded using the DSL40C, with some pedals. Hope you like it!
> 
> 
> Marshall DSL40c appears at 1:41 mins in.
> 
> 
> Marshall DSL40c appears at 1:43 mins in.





I shall now go burn all my gear and drink myself to oblivion...


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Bownse said:


> I shall now go burn all my gear and drink myself to oblivion...


Nooo, you shouldn’t do that, at least the burning of the gear!


----------



## CincyPaul

Mitchell Pearrow said:


> First up welcome to the forum, you my newest brother are quite talented, both clips are very professional looking and sounding! Cheers Mitch


Thanks, guys. I found this forum when I was searching for info on biasing my power tubes. This thread delivered, so I joined the forum!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

CincyPaul said:


> Thanks, guys. I found this forum when I was searching for info on biasing my power tubes. This thread delivered, so I joined the forum!


There’s no place like home, I too found this place via google/ dsl40c! Cheers Mitch


----------



## MarshallDog

Mitchell Pearrow said:


>




Marshalldog LIKEs! Sounds great...just need some lyrics and a bass player. Must be fun  with your grandson!!!!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

MarshallDog said:


> Marshalldog LIKE! Sounds great...just need some lyrics and a bass player. Must be fun  with your grandson!!!!


Thanks brother, yes it’s a load of fun, and we are still working on snagging a bassist, it would be cool to find one who also writes lyrics


----------



## MarshallDog

Mitchell Pearrow said:


> Thanks brother, yes it’s a load of fun, and we are still working on snagging a bassist, it would be cool to find one who also writes lyrics



And...25-35 years old, female, hot, well you know?!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

MarshallDog said:


> And...25-35 years old, female, hot, well you know?!


Ahhh yes how I know


----------



## Wolvieberzerker

Mitchell Pearrow said:


> Ahhh yes how I know


I’ve been watching and listening to this guy for a while now. Everyone could learn a thing or 2 from this gentleman. Just keep playing. That’s what I’m getting from this guy. Doesn’t matter what you got. Just play what you got. And play it loud!!! Got a 40 cr myself. It rocks. It rolls. I’ll put it up against anything. You sir are a true marine. My hats off to Mitchell.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Wolvieberzerker said:


> I’ve been watching and listening to this guy for a while now. Everyone could learn a thing or 2 from this gentleman. Just keep playing. That’s what I’m getting from this guy. Doesn’t matter what you got. Just play what you got. And play it loud!!! Got a 40 cr myself. It rocks. It rolls. I’ll put it up against anything. You sir are a true marine. My hats off to Mitchell.


That is one hell of a compliment, I truly appreciate it, and thank you! Cheers brother


----------



## Exojam

Well I guess you do not know how much you suck until you hear yourself being recorded. I wanted to put up a clip of my newbie “skills” so I broke out my phone and did a little recording. I could not delete them fast enough!

Not only did they sound nothing like what I heard but it damn sure caught my pauses as I was changing chords.

Definitely going to keep recording myself as I think it will be a good tool to use to get better. I will break out a mic I use for my audio system and see if I can get that to work with a recording program as it is a nice mic.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Exojam said:


> Well I guess you do not know how much you suck until you hear yourself being recorded. I wanted to put up a clip of my newbie “skills” so I broke out my phone and did a little recording. I could not delete them fast enough!
> 
> Not only did they sound nothing like what I heard but it damn sure caught my pauses as I was changing chords.
> 
> Definitely going to keep recording myself as I think it will be a good tool to use to get better. I will break out a mic I use for my audio system and see if I can get that to work with a recording program as it is a nice mic.


I haven’t deleted any of them I have put on my Utube channel, and it serves a positive purpose, I can go back and hear the crappy tones and playing, look at where I need the most improvement, and not forget new song ideas! Cheers


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

And I thank everyone who has sat down and took the time to view them  Cheers my brother’s and I shall keep bringing them, and they are all recorded with my phone!


----------



## BftGibson

Wolvieberzerker said:


> I’ve been watching and listening to this guy for a while now. Everyone could learn a thing or 2 from this gentleman. Just keep playing. That’s what I’m getting from this guy. Doesn’t matter what you got. Just play what you got. And play it loud!!! Got a 40 cr myself. It rocks. It rolls. I’ll put it up against anything. You sir are a true marine. My hats off to Mitchell.


,me too


----------



## Angus Rhoads

Exojam said:


> Well I guess you do not know how much you suck until you hear yourself being recorded. I wanted to put up a clip of my newbie “skills” so I broke out my phone and did a little recording. I could not delete them fast enough!
> 
> Not only did they sound nothing like what I heard but it damn sure caught my pauses as I was changing chords.
> 
> Definitely going to keep recording myself as I think it will be a good tool to use to get better. I will break out a mic I use for my audio system and see if I can get that to work with a recording program as it is a nice mic.


It's like the first time I heard a recording of my own voice when answering machines first came out - sounded nothing like the voice in my head.

Best way to get better as a player is to record yourself and listen to what you need to work on. Did that way back in the day with my old portable cassette deck. Of course, over the years I just learned a bunch of new mistakes to replace the old ones...


----------



## Angus Rhoads

Mitchell Pearrow said:


> And I thank everyone who has sat down and took the time to view them  Cheers my brother’s and I shall keep bringing them, and they are all recorded with my phone!


Love how you seem to be having so much fun jamming with your grandson, that's awesome, man. I hope one of my kids will end up playing an instrument so I can jam with them.


----------



## tmingle

BftGibson said:


> ,me too
> View attachment 54621


i Have a Vantage like that. Killer guitar. Mine is light brown wood grain.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Angus Rhoads said:


> Love how you seem to be having so much fun jamming with your grandson, that's awesome, man. I hope one of my kids will end up playing an instrument so I can jam with them.


Hell yes brother, there is nothing like it, this is my second generation of jamming, my first was my son, sadly he is no longer with us! Cheers


----------



## scozz

Wolvieberzerker said:


> I’ve been watching and listening to this guy for a while now. Everyone could learn a thing or 2 from this gentleman. Just keep playing. That’s what I’m getting from this guy. Doesn’t matter what you got. Just play what you got. And play it loud!!! Got a 40 cr myself. It rocks. It rolls. I’ll put it up against anything. You sir are a true marine. My hats off to Mitchell.



Yup,...you all would do well listening to Mitch,...aka @Mitchell Pearrow


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

scozz said:


> Yup,...you all would do well listening to Mitch,...aka @Mitchell Pearrow


Thanks brother, I am at a loss for words! Cheers Mitch


----------



## Exojam

Thank you all for the encouragement!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Exojam said:


> Thank you all for the encouragement!


No problem brother I for one love to hear my brother’s clips, I think it’s an inspiration for all! Cheers


----------



## steveb63

Mitch is the man.

A great forum bro, and inspired player!

Rock on ma brotha, lead the way.

Peace
Steve


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

steveb63 said:


> Mitch is the man.
> 
> A great forum bro, and inspired player!
> 
> Rock on ma brotha, lead the way.
> 
> Peace
> Steve


I thank you Steve , this is such a great family of my favorite Marshall brother’s, and I am truly proud to be a member here! Cheers Mitch


----------



## ken361

https://www.amplifiedparts.com/tech-corner/12ax7-comparison-current-made-tubes


----------



## ken361

For Mitch


----------



## ken361

messing around


----------



## MarshallDog

ken361 said:


> For Mitch




I'm not Mitch but sounds great!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

ken361 said:


> For Mitch



Thanks brother, I do appreciate your comments and contributions! Cheers


----------



## ken361

Like wise bro!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

ken361 said:


> For Mitch



Yea brother that’s the one you need to post up in show me your riffs, in the cellar, yea Ken some new blood is just what that thread needs! Cheers


----------



## ken361

Its about jam out loud time with the Origin soon at my girls place!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

ken361 said:


> Its about jam out loud time with the Origin soon at my girls place!


Hell ya brother I am just about to start my commute home from work, I about 90 miles from home in Burbank, it’s Saturday so should only be a 2 hour drive, at least I hope! Cheers


----------



## ken361

Dam long ride!


----------



## KraftyBob

Exojam said:


> Well I guess you do not know how much you suck until you hear yourself being recorded. I wanted to put up a clip of my newbie “skills” so I broke out my phone and did a little recording. I could not delete them fast enough!
> 
> Not only did they sound nothing like what I heard but it damn sure caught my pauses as I was changing chords.
> 
> Definitely going to keep recording myself as I think it will be a good tool to use to get better. I will break out a mic I use for my audio system and see if I can get that to work with a recording program as it is a nice mic.


I know what you mean. I recently got a Shure SM57 to record myself and did a little solo on the clean channel. Overall I'm happy with it - but I'm hitting extra notes, rubbing extra strings, etc., so I really need to clean up my act. Getting a mic went from a "hey let's make some recordings" to becoming a learning/practice tool. It's amazing what you hear when you're just listening vs concentrating on playing.

BTW - I'm a huge Knopfler fan so I threw in a little homage to him at around :54



Signal Chain: Gibson SG 50's Tribute (P90's) > Line6 M13Reverb > DSL40C Clean Channel > G12M-65 & G12T-75


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

KraftyBob said:


> I know what you mean. I recently got a Shure SM57 to record myself and did a little solo on the clean channel. Overall I'm happy with it - but I'm hitting extra notes, rubbing extra strings, etc., so I really need to clean up my act. Getting a mic went from a "hey let's make some recordings" to becoming a learning/practice tool. It's amazing what you hear when you're just listening vs concentrating on playing.
> 
> BTW - I'm a huge Knopfler fan so I threw in a little homage to him at around :54
> 
> 
> 
> Signal Chain: Gibson SG 50's Tribute (P90's) > Line6 M13Reverb > DSL40C Clean Channel > G12M-65 & G12T-75



Really clean and soulful like it


----------



## CincyPaul

Just a little noodlin' on the DSL40c, trying out a Boss DS-2 turbo setting for leads on the amp's clean channel.



Other videos I've recorded using this amp:


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

CincyPaul said:


> Just a little noodlin' on the DSL40c, trying out a Boss DS-2 turbo setting for leads on the amp's clean channel.
> 
> 
> 
> Other videos I've recorded using this amp:



All three clips sound really good brother, and I thank you for sharing them here, first one is quite soulful, lot of your feelings where there to hear! Cheers


----------



## ken361

CincyPaul said:


> Just a little noodlin' on the DSL40c, trying out a Boss DS-2 turbo setting for leads on the amp's clean channel.
> 
> 
> 
> Other videos I've recorded using this amp:



sounds good were you recording on sound cloud? whats that blue box for? sounded like some Pink floyd


----------



## CincyPaul

ken361 said:


> sounds good were you recording on sound cloud? whats that blue box for? sounded like some Pink floyd


Nah, I was just recording on Garage Band on the Mac over a YouTube backing track of the song "Time."


----------



## Lyledr

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Lil diddy on L2 gain at 2. No volume rolling...pick attack changes hard/soft. Clipped phone mic at the end. Oops.



Will you please tell me exactly what you did to get this sound? Sounds amazing!


----------



## solarburn

Lyledr said:


> Will you please tell me exactly what you did to get this sound? Sounds amazing!



I would but it's been too long since. I'm sure I have volume around 4. I prefer a healthy dose of power section with the DSL's preamp.


----------



## Wolvieberzerker

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I would but it's been too long since. I'm sure I have volume around 4. I prefer a healthy dose of power section with the DSL's preamp.


I prefer a healthy dose of beer with my DSL


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Wolvieberzerker said:


> I prefer a healthy dose of beer with my DSL


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow




----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

This is a pair of dsl40c’s, and a 10 band mxr eq! Cheers


----------



## Jon C

Mitchell Pearrow said:


> Hell ya brother I am just about to start my commute home from work, I about 90 miles from home in Burbank, it’s Saturday so should only be a 2 hour drive, at least I hope! Cheers


Not far from my old Neighborhood !!!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Jon C said:


> Not far from my old Neighborhood !!!


LaCanada was real close to Eagle Rock/Pasadena? Or in the center, forgive me I drive by quite a bit, but only seem to remember where I work! Mitch


----------



## Jon C

Mitchell Pearrow said:


> LaCanada was real close to Eagle Rock/Pasadena? Or in the center, forgive me I drive by quite a bit, but only seem to remember where I work! Mitch


Yep .. South Pasadena slips into Eagle Rock then Glendale then Burbank as you travel West .. Just North of there , Altadena, Pasadena over the Arroyo Wash ( Devil's Gate , JPL, Rose Bowl ) , La Cañada, La Cresenta , Sunland , Tujunga are parallel with those cities up against the foothills… Montrose/Verdugo are sandwiched in between La Cañada and Glendale ……


----------



## Wolvieberzerker

Mitchell Pearrow said:


> LaCanada was real close to Eagle Rock/Pasadena? Or in the center, forgive me I drive by quite a bit, but only seem to remember where I work! Mitch


Mitch... just keep rocking. I’ll be on the other end. Hold it down. 
Till Solar relieves of my duty.


----------



## Wolvieberzerker

Wolvieberzerker said:


> Mitch... just keep rocking. I’ll be on the other end. Hold it down.
> Till Solar relieves of my duty.


I don’t really know what that means exactly. 17 beers deep.


----------



## Jon C

Wolvieberzerker said:


> Mitch... just keep rocking. I’ll be on the other end. Hold it down.
> Till Solar relieves of my duty.


That is Incredible !!!!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Jon C said:


> That is Incredible !!!!


More than incredible, it fnng rocks, I am going to bring a clip! Cheers


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow




----------



## Jon C

Wolvieberzerker said:


> Mitch... just keep rocking. I’ll be on the other end. Hold it down.
> Till Solar relieves of my duty.


I'm gonna write a tune using this in the morning …… it's gotta be done !!!! …


----------



## Exojam

About to be putting some NOS Tung-Sol 6550 in the amp.

From all of my reading these are the 6550’s which all others are measured by, we shall see how they sing.


View media item 10535View media item 10536


----------



## KraftyBob

Mitchell Pearrow said:


>



Sounds really good, Mitch! I see there was a cameo by the Mrs. Next time give her a mic


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

KraftyBob said:


> Sounds really good, Mitch! I see there was a cameo by the Mrs. Next time give her a mic


She would have just turned down the gesture, but I could try! Cheers Mitch


----------



## Exojam

Very strange. After I changed the tubes and hooked my meters for the biasing I left it there for awhile.

When I came back to check the meters I found C14 had a leg that appeared broken. I say appeared because I may have cut it but cannot see that in any of my notes.

So my question is has anyone ever cut C14 before? Thanks.


----------



## Micky

C14 is in the V1 DC filament circuit. Probably there to filter ripple...

Did you change your grid resistors and mod the bias circuit for 6550's?


----------



## Exojam

I did change the three resistors, the NFB resistor and other mods, all listed below.

C4 removed
C5 to .001uF
C19 to 180pF
C50, 51, 54 to Mallory 150 22nF 630V
C10,25,29,47,55,60 to Mojotone Dijion 47nF 630V
C2,3,18,24,91 to Mallory 150 47nF 630V

Resistors changed to allow for the 6550 tubes.
R106 = 10K
R79 - 81 = 150K

C14, really looks like the leg broke as the circuit board does not show and reminisce of the leg, like you may see if it was cut.

Since I just cannot see anywhere in my notes that I cut it, I will get the leg soldered back in.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow




----------



## solarburn

Mitchell Pearrow said:


>




Sounds like juicy R&R.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Sounds like juicy R&R.


Thanks brother, I for one know that you know good rock, and I thank you for the compliment, still looking forward to hearing some more of your clips ! Thanks again


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Sounds like juicy R&R.


Hey brother I just wanted to let you know that this is just my dsl40c’s, and the mxr10 band eq, and the LP studio  And for what it’s worth this is brand new tonight! Cheers


----------



## solarburn

Mitchell Pearrow said:


> Thanks brother, I for one know that you know good rock, and I thank you for the compliment, still looking forward to hearing some more of your clips ! Thanks again



I loves me home made jams! Keep it rocking.

I've been lazy with the clips lately. I've got 2 new amps and one on the way. I want to do some soon and I will. Been awhile. I want my bro's to check them out.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

solarburnDSL50 said:


> I loves me home made jams! Keep it rocking.
> 
> I've been lazy with the clips lately. I've got 2 new amps and one on the way. I want to do some soon and I will. Been awhile. I want my bro's to check them out.


You can bet the house brother, I will be all over them! Cheers


----------



## Seventh Son

Mitchell Pearrow said:


>



I love your tone. Very tasteful. Reminds me of classic Priest. Does the MXR 10-band EQ make a big difference?


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Seventh Son said:


> I love your tone. Very tasteful. Reminds me of classic Priest. Does the MXR 10-band EQ make a big difference?


Thank you SS, yes it’s the only thing I am using to run both amps, I like it so much that when I play the origin it is plugged in with the SD1, the dsl40c’s don’t really need the SD1, and my volume wasn’t even at 1, and that’s the red 1 channel, with gain at 3, ! Cheers Mitch


----------



## Seventh Son

Mitchell Pearrow said:


> Thank you SS, yes it’s the only thing I am using to run both amps, I like it so much that when I play the origin it is plugged in with the SD1, the dsl40c’s don’t really need the SD1, and my volume wasn’t even at 1, and that’s the red 1 channel, with gain at 3, ! Cheers Mitch


You sound like you’re not using a whole lot of gain. I really like that classic tone. You always sound good through the DSL40C.


----------



## truckdub

I just replaced the original 70/80 with a Weber 65watt Silverbell. My god what a difference! Smooth top and bottom but still with punch and chime. Just a lot more present. Sounds awesome!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Seventh Son said:


> You sound like you’re not using a whole lot of gain. I really like that classic tone. You always sound good through the DSL40C.


Thanks again brother, it took me some time to get it, and when I need more punch, I turn the mosfet on, that lead 100 mosfet really amps it up a notch! Cheers to the next one! Mitch


----------



## dave999z

Hey all,

I haven’t played through my DSL40 in a few months. Plugged it in and I’m getting like a static sound in the background as I hit hard chords. Both channels, both modes.

Used a different instrument cable, guitar straight into amp.

Used a different guitar.

Rolled a different preamp tube through v1-v4, and a different power tube through both positions, and that didn’t solve it.

Uggh.

If anyone has any thoughts on anything else to try, I’d appreciate it. I can solder, though not looking to die discharging a cap through my being.

Thanks.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

dave999z said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I haven’t played through my DSL40 in a few months. Plugged it in and I’m getting like a static sound in the background as I hit hard chords. Both channels, both modes.
> 
> Used a different instrument cable, guitar straight into amp.
> 
> Used a different guitar.
> 
> Rolled a different preamp tube through v1-v4, and a different power tube through both positions, and that didn’t solve it.
> 
> Uggh.
> 
> If anyone has any thoughts on anything else to try, I’d appreciate it. I can solder, though not looking to die discharging a cap through my being.
> 
> Thanks.


I really can’t help you, you have already tried everything that I would mention! Just for kicks try jumping the fx loop? The only time I heard static in one of mine it was power tubes! Good luck


----------



## AlanH

dave999z said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I haven’t played through my DSL40 in a few months. Plugged it in and I’m getting like a static sound in the background as I hit hard chords. Both channels, both modes.
> 
> Used a different instrument cable, guitar straight into amp.
> 
> Used a different guitar.
> 
> Rolled a different preamp tube through v1-v4, and a different power tube through both positions, and that didn’t solve it.
> 
> Uggh.
> 
> If anyone has any thoughts on anything else to try, I’d appreciate it. I can solder, though not looking to die discharging a cap through my being.
> 
> Thanks.



Could it just be the normal background hiss that you're now not used to (having not played it for a while)? If it is a crackly sound rather than a hiss I'm also just wondering if you've stored it anywhere cold and damp over winter and some contact cleaner is required somewhere...


----------



## dave999z

AlanH said:


> Could it just be the normal background hiss that you're now not used to (having not played it for a while)? If it is a crackly sound rather than a hiss I'm also just wondering if you've stored it anywhere cold and damp over winter and some contact cleaner is required somewhere...



Hey, it’s def a crackle, not usual background hiss. Happens even on green clean, which has no background hiss. Actually sounds like when a guitar pot or 5-way pickup selector could use some contact cleaner. Good suggestion. I’ll mess around with it and see if I can tell whether any specific pot may be the culprit. Thanks.


----------



## CincyPaul

Recorded a new song using this amp... I mic'ed the DLS40c while playing the Fender Telecaster, Fender Duo-Sonic, Fender Stratocaster, and my own custom-made guitar. The Fender P-bass, acoustic, and keys was recorded directly into the audio interface. Hope you like:


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

CincyPaul said:


> Recorded a new song using this amp... I mic'ed the DLS40c while playing the Fender Telecaster, Fender Duo-Sonic, Fender Stratocaster, and my own custom-made guitar. The Fender P-bass, acoustic, and keys was recorded directly into the audio interface. Hope you like:



Very Very cool, never got predictable, tight playing and timing on all accounts, nice tones on the dirty guitar as well! Cheers Mitch


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

This a pair of dsl40c’s, and the mxr 10 band eq. Songs name is Day of Days! Cheers Mitch


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow




----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Mitchell Pearrow said:


>



This is a piece that is still in progress, same settings and amps as above! Cheers Mitch


----------



## ken361

CincyPaul said:


> Recorded a new song using this amp... I mic'ed the DLS40c while playing the Fender Telecaster, Fender Duo-Sonic, Fender Stratocaster, and my own custom-made guitar. The Fender P-bass, acoustic, and keys was recorded directly into the audio interface. Hope you like:



I was thinking about getting one of those for recording it probably sounds better then my M Audio Mobile Pre


----------



## Toothyfish

Way behind on reading everything but thanks for C19 tip. WOW! Never realized the possibility till I cranked channel one with the Crunch button in and a clean boost. Then switched to Channel 2 and it really sounded thin and fuzzy.


----------



## tce63

Toothyfish said:


> Way behind on reading everything but thanks for C19 tip. WOW! Never realized the possibility till I cranked channel one with the Crunch button in and a clean boost. Then switched to Channel 2 and it really sounded thin and fuzzy.



 to the forum

Cheers


----------



## steveb63

Feel like I've been neglecting my DSL.

A quick update: plugged my new Friedman BE-OD Deluxe into the front end of the DSL.

Wow, wicked tone on the green channel, and lowered gain on the red was a little hairy for me, but that green channel. Evil - but in a really cool way, turns it into a poor man's BE. 

Steve


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

ken361 said:


> I was thinking about getting one of those for recording it probably sounds better then my M Audio Mobile Pre


 To the best forum ever


----------



## Jon C

@Toothyfish Here's a recap I had shared with a member here on a version of The C19 Mod ……



This is the DSL40C C19 Option Mod…… Here's a few shots
Mini Toggle installed above Lead1/Lead2 Button



Stock capacitor ( C19 ) gets snipped
Before ( C19 is a small yellow poly Cap near the pots )



And After ( showing my installed assembly )




The Red Channel is the only thing affected
C19 is a Treble Bleed Capacitor
The idea is that the Fizzy sound that we all seem to dislike, helps the guitar cut through the mix with other instruments in a live situation ……
If you turn up the Red Channel Treble Control All of the Way …… the cap does nothing
If you back the Red Channel Treble off then the Capacitor sends most of the treble through the circuit anyway ..
Super noticeable especially at lower volumes ……
Many guys just clip it out altogether which then passes no high frequency other than that the treble pot passes
Here's the more technical part along with some references :
The stock cap (C19) value is 470pF ……Super Fizzy / Tinny
No cap is instantly darker and No Fizz at all …… almost too dark
I and others have found that an in between value of around 100pF is Really Nice for Home Studio/Bedroom levels……
What my DPDT toggle assembly does is give me Options for 440pF / None / 100pF
Here is a close up of the assembly
( note that the supply store had no 450ish range caps so I paralleled two 220pF across one pole and a 100pF across the other …… The voltage values of the caps is not too critical, you don't need 500volts , but 100volt or 50volt are fine)


----------



## steveb63

^^^
Nice, thanks for this.

Appreciate your time and efforts.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Toothyfish said:


> Way behind on reading everything but thanks for C19 tip. WOW! Never realized the possibility till I cranked channel one with the Crunch button in and a clean boost. Then switched to Channel 2 and it really sounded thin and fuzzy.


I quoted the wrong post , oops shit anyways welcome to the forum of Marshall my brother! Cheers Mitch


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Mitchell Pearrow said:


> To the best forum ever


Sorry Ken I hit quote while driving and it was your post,oops! Cheers Mitch


----------



## Toothyfish

Thanks Jon C.


----------



## Exojam

I apologize if I missed it but has any modded this amp to have the bias adjusting parts to mount on the outside of the so we do not need to keep going inside of it for this procedure? Thanks.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Sorry to the members here that are following the, (show me your riffs) thread and this one, as I have posted this in each one! Cheers Mitch


----------



## Jon C

Exojam said:


> I apologize if I missed it but has any modded this amp to have the bias adjusting parts to mount on the outside of the so we do not need to keep going inside of it for this procedure? Thanks.


The 40C is a self bias I believe …… maybe someone who knows more can correct me if I'm wrong


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Jon C said:


> The 40C is a self bias I believe …… maybe someone who knows more can correct me if I'm wrong


No Jon it is not a self biased amp


----------



## Jon C

Mitchell Pearrow said:


> No Jon it is not a self biased amp


I know my new DSL100HR is bias adjustable ……wasn't sure about the 40C though ……Thanks brother !!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Jon C said:


> I know my new DSL100HR is bias adjustable ……wasn't sure about the 40C though ……Thanks brother !!


No problem brother glad I could lend a hand


----------



## tmingle

Exojam said:


> I apologize if I missed it but has any modded this amp to have the bias adjusting parts to mount on the outside of the so we do not need to keep going inside of it for this procedure? Thanks.


I did it with mine. I have it documented in this thread somewhere.


----------



## tmingle

Exojam said:


> I apologize if I missed it but has any modded this amp to have the bias adjusting parts to mount on the outside of the so we do not need to keep going inside of it for this procedure? Thanks.


http://www.marshallforum.com/threads/the-official-marshall-dsl40c-information-thread.53780/page-462


----------



## Exojam

Very nice and thank you very much!

Looks like you used one of the Vishal pots on this?



tmingle said:


> http://www.marshallforum.com/threads/the-official-marshall-dsl40c-information-thread.53780/page-462


----------



## tmingle

Exojam said:


> Very nice and thank you very much!
> 
> Looks like you used one of the Vishal pots on this?


You will need 2. The 40C has a bias pot for each power tube.


----------



## Exojam

Correct, I have been in there quite a few times. I just want to at some time make it easier as you did.

Thanks again.


----------



## BanditPanda

I've been reading about the JHS Little Black Amp Box and it says the amp we use must have a series effects loop. Is the effect loop in a DSL40 a series loop?
BP


----------



## KraftyBob

BanditPanda said:


> I've been reading about the JHS Little Black Amp Box and it says the amp we use must have a series effects loop. Is the effect loop in a DSL40 a series loop?
> BP


Yes it’s series. Parallel loops usually have a mix knob so you can adjust how much wet/dry you want.


----------



## tmingle

BanditPanda said:


> JHS Little Black Amp Box


you can do the same thing with the MXR 10 band eq & also adjust the eq of the amp at lower levels


----------



## wolfpack

tmingle said:


> you can do the same thing with the MXR 10 band eq & also adjust the eq of the amp at lower levels



Yep, it does
Works and sounds great for low volume use


----------



## JBA

I guess I should post this in here.. Been messing around with a Celestion Century Vintage. Loved the creambacks (had them all) and the Vintage 30 but it's like my dsl40c grew a set.. Reminds me why I love me a Marshall again. Krangggg!


----------



## Strmecki

Hey guys! I have a completely stock DSL40C and I've been looking for a mod in which I am able to boost the clean channel as I have to crank the volume and gain to match it to teh overdrive channel. I plan to do the C19 mod to it but is there a specific mod to increase the volume for the clean channel? Thanks!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Strmecki said:


> Hey guys! I have a completely stock DSL40C and I've been looking for a mod in which I am able to boost the clean channel as I have to crank the volume and gain to match it to teh overdrive channel. I plan to do the C19 mod to it but is there a specific mod to increase the volume for the clean channel? Thanks!


 To the best forum of Marshall on the net, mine are stock (no mods at all) and I am not going to steer you in any direction, this thread has all the information you will need, sorry for not being any help, but it is in here! Cheers Mitch


----------



## Len

Strmecki said:


> Hey guys! I have a completely stock DSL40C and I've been looking for a mod in which I am able to boost the clean channel as I have to crank the volume and gain to match it to teh overdrive channel. I plan to do the C19 mod to it but is there a specific mod to increase the volume for the clean channel? Thanks!


The C19 mod helps with that too.


----------



## Strmecki

Len said:


> The C19 mod helps with that too.


Thank Len! I'll do the C19 and see if that improves it.


----------



## KraftyBob

Just saw this on Twitter - a brief history of the DSL:

http://marshall.com/dslhistory


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

KraftyBob said:


> Just saw this on Twitter - a brief history of the DSL:
> 
> http://marshall.com/dslhistory


Cool little read bro thanks for sharing! Cheers


----------



## Robert Herndon Project

Micky said:


> Thin and kinda fizzy in my opinion, but as I will always say, I am not the best person to ask. I didn't play it a lot in the DSL40c, as I had a Texas Heat just itching to get installed. I needed the bass all the way up, and I know the speaker wasn't 'broken in' but it just didn't agree with that cab. It has excellent mid-range definition, I really liked the sustain/feedback using the OD1/OD2 channel, but it just didn't have the 'thump' I was looking for and got with the Eminence installed. It is like you couldn't really 'feel' the speaker with the DSL. I will bet the 70/80 doesn't have the cone excursion the Eminence has...
> 
> Funny thing, I put the 70/80 in my re-worked Princeton Reverb, and I love it. It has some sort of 'presence' or 'depth' I cannot explain. Seems like a very accurate speaker, the SFPR is generally a pretty clean amp till you crank it a bit, but in this open back combo it sounds great.
> 
> I will bet the 70/80 would also sound pretty good in a 4X12 closed back cab, possibly even vented like yours. Would be neat to try it, it is inexpensive enough for someone to tackle this task.


----------



## Jon C

KraftyBob said:


> Just saw this on Twitter - a brief history of the DSL:
> 
> http://marshall.com/dslhistory


Nice read but some incorrect info in there …… ie. There is No Half Power Switch on the 401……


----------



## BanditPanda

Robert Herndon Project said:


> View attachment 56918



Very nice shot!
Any number come with that Genalex ?
BP


----------



## KraftyBob

Too funny considering this is on Marshall's own website. Looks like something slipped through the editors.


----------



## Robert Herndon Project

BanditPanda said:


> Very nice shot!
> Any number come with that Genalex ?
> BP



B759 is the highest gain version....

Speaker is a custom made WGS 16ohm Reaper 55Hz


----------



## Tweed4x10

I've had my DSL40C since the summer blow out of stock. The red channel was always a little too distorted. I had put a JJ 5751 in V1 and it was tamed, but still not sweet. I still have the 70/80 speaker.

I just performed the C19 mod via a 3 way toggle to switch between 470, 0 and 100 pF. Wow!!!! this change makes both red channels usable!! I waited a long time to figure if I wanted to mod the amp, return, sell, whatever. Then just determined that it was my amp and if I was to resell then someone may want the C19 mod done. It has pushed out my GAS for a while


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Sorry to bore you all with another clip of the mighty DSL40C ‘s but I will continue to bring them! Cheers Mitch


----------



## MarshallDog

Mitchell Pearrow said:


> Sorry to bore you all with another clip of the mighty DSL40C ‘s but I will continue to bring them! Cheers Mitch




I think the vehicle is affecting your tone??


----------



## solarburn

.


----------



## solarburn

L1&2 can. Period.


----------



## Robert Herndon Project

wangchung said:


> Guys! Unfortunately the list was for checking off which ones and combinations had been tested, not for sonic properties per se. The
> tones I was looking for were the clean/crunch of a '65 deluxe reverb
> on channel 1, and a mid/upper mid growl for "polyphonic" chord forms,
> with chimey, shimmering harmonics on the unwound strings while playing
> "leads", especially C and above, (that weren't brittle and could be rolled off with the tone control if desired)for channel 2.. I knew the Vin.30 would be in the mix going in, but the G12T75 was a surprise. It really was key to the
> fendery tones, as my impression of it is somewhat mid-scooped compared to the V30. I think they were voiced that way, "modern" for the 900's.
> It was also the only spkr not "broken in" so to speak. A pair of
> them came in the 1936 cab, which was in exellent condition and apparently
> had never been subjected to enough watts long enough to loosen up. The
> G12T was also the only one I had in 16ohms that didn't overpower the V30
> in the upper cab. I did try the 8ohm V30 in the 40c cab with the Mesa MC90 in the bottom cab, but the MC90 was too much for the V30. That
> spkr, a 90's BlackShadow MC90 is a jewel. It's been in several Line 6 Flextones that I used for just the Blackface and JCM800 models, and it
> did them both brilliantly. Soft upper Lead harmonics all over the place.
> It did what was asked of it, amazing versatility. It sounded great by itself
> in the 40c cab too. I've read that it's the same as the Celestion lead 80,
> but i've not had the chance to compare. I have a cable that puts 2 inputs in series, and that's what I used to run the 8ohm V30 and the 8ohm MC90
> off the 16ohm tap of the 40c. I plan on putting the other G12T in a
> cab here at the house and "breaking it in" while I practice. After it breathes a bit I plan on trying it in the 40c cab out of curiosity, with the
> other one in the ext. cab. Who know? Maybe the Tug-Sols will get me
> those soft upper harmonics consistently. I'll call it a day with the V30 and
> the G12T if that happens. Or maybe the Svet 34's properly biased will
> yield the grind on my 2 string chords while in ultra gain mode with both
> G12T's attached. Oh! I forgot to mention the G12M's. Not enough bottom
> in these open back/semi open back cabs.
> The reason I ditched the DSL20H was that the ultra channel was that it
> has the 2 circuts I don't use on the DSL, clean and insane gain. Also no
> loop, and the ultra gain amplified the delay and reverb to unusable along
> with everything else. The tube saga for that thing was also a week long
> affair, the end result of which was using the JJ reverse wired 12DW7 in
> V3. Apparently the V3 has a similar triode arrangement to the Mesa DC V1.
> The name of which escapes me but it is mentioned on the JJ website.
> It made the gain on the lead channel manageable and sounded good,
> but I couldn't use it because of the bad play with my effects with that
> channel. Let me look that up on Eurotubes.......ah, that tube is the
> ECC823. Yea, they say the V1 slot of the Mesa DC series. But after rolling
> a JJ 5751 and a stock 12DW7 in the first 3 holes of the DSL20H, I can
> safely say that it's half of V3 causing the mayhem. The reverse wired
> 12DW7 that JJ makes puts the 12AU7 half in the ultra gain cascade
> slot. So, trick there. Hey I live for this sh_t, don't Y'all?
> My backup amp is The brain of an ancient Crate Vintage Club 20 that I moved the AC transformer up on top with everything else, and made a
> mini-Marshall head cab for. It has 8 and 16 ohm taps and sounds great
> with sovtek EL84's and 12AX7WB's. And it's no bigger than an old-school
> lunch box. Way under rated master vol amp. Don't leave home without it.





wangchung said:


> Guys! Unfortunately the list was for checking off which ones and combinations had been tested, not for sonic properties per se. The
> tones I was looking for were the clean/crunch of a '65 deluxe reverb
> on channel 1, and a mid/upper mid growl for "polyphonic" chord forms,
> with chimey, shimmering harmonics on the unwound strings while playing
> "leads", especially C and above, (that weren't brittle and could be rolled off with the tone control if desired)for channel 2.. I knew the Vin.30 would be in the mix going in, but the G12T75 was a surprise. It really was key to the
> fendery tones, as my impression of it is somewhat mid-scooped compared to the V30. I think they were voiced that way, "modern" for the 900's.
> It was also the only spkr not "broken in" so to speak. A pair of
> them came in the 1936 cab, which was in exellent condition and apparently
> had never been subjected to enough watts long enough to loosen up. The
> G12T was also the only one I had in 16ohms that didn't overpower the V30
> in the upper cab. I did try the 8ohm V30 in the 40c cab with the Mesa MC90 in the bottom cab, but the MC90 was too much for the V30. That
> spkr, a 90's BlackShadow MC90 is a jewel. It's been in several Line 6 Flextones that I used for just the Blackface and JCM800 models, and it
> did them both brilliantly. Soft upper Lead harmonics all over the place.
> It did what was asked of it, amazing versatility. It sounded great by itself
> in the 40c cab too. I've read that it's the same as the Celestion lead 80,
> but i've not had the chance to compare. I have a cable that puts 2 inputs in series, and that's what I used to run the 8ohm V30 and the 8ohm MC90
> off the 16ohm tap of the 40c. I plan on putting the other G12T in a
> cab here at the house and "breaking it in" while I practice. After it breathes a bit I plan on trying it in the 40c cab out of curiosity, with the
> other one in the ext. cab. Who know? Maybe the Tug-Sols will get me
> those soft upper harmonics consistently. I'll call it a day with the V30 and
> the G12T if that happens. Or maybe the Svet 34's properly biased will
> yield the grind on my 2 string chords while in ultra gain mode with both
> G12T's attached. Oh! I forgot to mention the G12M's. Not enough bottom
> in these open back/semi open back cabs.
> The reason I ditched the DSL20H was that the ultra channel was that it
> has the 2 circuts I don't use on the DSL, clean and insane gain. Also no
> loop, and the ultra gain amplified the delay and reverb to unusable along
> with everything else. The tube saga for that thing was also a week long
> affair, the end result of which was using the JJ reverse wired 12DW7 in
> V3. Apparently the V3 has a similar triode arrangement to the Mesa DC V1.
> The name of which escapes me but it is mentioned on the JJ website.
> It made the gain on the lead channel manageable and sounded good,
> but I couldn't use it because of the bad play with my effects with that
> channel. Let me look that up on Eurotubes.......ah, that tube is the
> ECC823. Yea, they say the V1 slot of the Mesa DC series. But after rolling
> a JJ 5751 and a stock 12DW7 in the first 3 holes of the DSL20H, I can
> safely say that it's half of V3 causing the mayhem. The reverse wired
> 12DW7 that JJ makes puts the 12AU7 half in the ultra gain cascade
> slot. So, trick there. Hey I live for this sh_t, don't Y'all?
> My backup amp is The brain of an ancient Crate Vintage Club 20 that I moved the AC transformer up on top with everything else, and made a
> mini-Marshall head cab for. It has 8 and 16 ohm taps and sounds great
> with sovtek EL84's and 12AX7WB's. And it's no bigger than an old-school
> lunch box. Way under rated master vol amp. Don't leave home without it.



Never considered a ECC823 in V3


----------



## BanditPanda

I use a DSL 40. Does it have " "Long Tailed Phase Inverter"?
BP


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

BanditPanda said:


> I use a DSL 40. Does it have " "Long Tailed Phase Inverter"?
> BP


I honestly don’t know BP


----------



## Micky

Yes. You can generally tell by the different (unequal) resistance in the output of the PI. The DSL is very similar to this:

https://www.aikenamps.com/index.php/the-long-tail-pair


----------



## BanditPanda

Mitchell Pearrow said:


> I honestly don’t know BP



I was looking for a reply from Micky, Mitch!!!
BP


----------



## Micky

In all reality, the new DSL's are a conglomeration of all the best parts of a lot of older amps. I would imagine the next version will have all the midi and switching problems worked out...


----------



## BanditPanda

Micky said:


> Yes. You can generally tell by the different (unequal) resistance in the output of the PI. The DSL is very similar to this:
> 
> https://www.aikenamps.com/index.php/the-long-tail-pair



Thank you Micky. Because of that fact we do not have to concern ourselves with " balanced" PI's right ?
BP


----------



## Micky

You never did. Even if the values of R84 and R77 were equal it wouldn't matter. The unequal circuit just insures there is no oscillation or other strange currents introduced into the finals.


----------



## BanditPanda

Micky said:


> You never did. Even if the values of R84 and R77 were equal it wouldn't matter. The unequal circuit just insures there is no oscillation or other strange currents introduced into the finals.




Thanks and way over my head Micky however apparently " balanced " PI's are the cat's meow on specific amp types.
Perhaps it's just another tone is in the hands / tone is in the wood debates.?
BP


----------



## Micky

There are interesting arguments both ways.
Those who prefer tone like unbalanced.
Those who prefer power like balanced.

Personally I like reliability, so I don't care either way.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow




----------



## Mjojo51

I have the dsl 40c with the vintage 30. Put a nos RCA 12at7 in v1. Clean/ crunch ch. Sounds the same but makes od. channel killer for classic rock/ blues tones for my taste. Also cut c19 and between this and at7 no more fizzy nasty unbalanced high end in od ch. Also reduced R43 to half its value and fixed the weak reverb issue now It works as it should have in the first place.


----------



## Patrick1959

Gents, I have installed a Celestion G12 Vintage 30, 16 Ohm speaker in my DSl 40c. Powered up the amp, clean channel, volume on 0, gain on 3. rolled volume to 3, strummed a chord and all I get is distortion and other odd sounds. I put a few chords together on a looper and let it play for a few hours at around 3 volume with no improvement to the sound quality. Do I have a bad speaker, or does the speaker need to be played longer. Thanks in advance


----------



## Micky

Patrick1959 said:


> Gents, I have installed a Celestion G12 Vintage 30, 16 Ohm speaker in my DSl 40c. Powered up the amp, clean channel, volume on 0, gain on 3. rolled volume to 3, strummed a chord and all I get is distortion and other odd sounds. I put a few chords together on a looper and let it play for a few hours at around 3 volume with no improvement to the sound quality. Do I have a bad speaker, or does the speaker need to be played longer. Thanks in advance


Does the old speaker sound OK?


----------



## Patrick1959

Micky said:


> Does the old speaker sound OK?


Yes, it's the original seventy-80 speaker, it sounds good, The amp is fine. I changed a 10" speaker in another amp a few years ago, it was good to go out of the box. I just wasn't sure if the 12" speakers had an extreme break in period or not. This one sounds terrible. No visible damage on the speaker or packaging from amazon. Scratching my head.....


----------



## Micky

Sounds like a bad speaker...


----------



## Patrick1959

I think you're right. What are the odds of a new blown speaker? Anyway, thanks Micky.


----------



## Micky

If it's new, odds are very high against it.
If you have yet another speaker, plug it in just to make sure...


----------



## Patrick1959

I only have the stock and the new one. The Seventy-80 is still in great shape, I was just looking for the british-classic rock tone and bite, something with a little more balls. Hopefully expedite a refund or exchange tomorrow. Amazon rep says I'll have to deal with Celestion directly. So be it. Should be a treat.


----------



## Solid State

Mitchell Pearrow said:


>




Hell fuckin' yeah!!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Solid State said:


> Hell fuckin' yeah!!


Thanks brother I for one appreciate you taking the time to check it out!!
Cheers Mitch


----------



## KraftyBob

Patrick1959 said:


> I think you're right. What are the odds of a new blown speaker? Anyway, thanks Micky.


With the speaker out and sitting face up on a table (magnet down), if you push down on the cone with equal pressure across the cone, do you hear a scratching sound? If so, the speaker is bad.

I had a bad speaker I pulled out of a cab I bought used (happens to be a V30 also). You can hear a bad (the first one) and good speaker in this video I did. This is what voicecoil rub sounds like.


----------



## Patrick1959

KraftyBob said:


> With the speaker out and sitting face up on a table (magnet down), if you push down on the cone with equal pressure across the cone, do you hear a scratching sound? If so, the speaker is bad.
> 
> I had a bad speaker I pulled out of a cab I bought used (happens to be a V30 also). You can hear a bad (the first one) and good speaker in this video I did. This is what voicecoil rub sounds like.



Thanks for the info, I've already packed it up and waiting for return instruction from Amazon. No doubt it's faulty though. Thanks again!


----------



## Patrick1959

Patrick1959 said:


> Thanks for the info, I've already packed it up and waiting for return instruction from Amazon. No doubt it's faulty though. Thanks again!


RECAP: after playing hot potato with the speaker return, Amazon refunded the purchase price, and said to dispose of it myself. I pulled the speaker out of the packing box and did the depression test on the cone. It did not make a sound going in, but on the way back out it makes a "grunting " sound. Did you have your faulty speaker repaired or did you trash it?


----------



## MarshallDog

Patrick1959 said:


> RECAP: after playing hot potato with the speaker return, Amazon refunded the purchase price, and said to dispose of it myself. I pulled the speaker out of the packing box and did the depression test on the cone. It did not make a sound going in, but on the way back out it makes a "grunting " sound. Did you have your faulty speaker repaired or did you trash it?



Just trash it not worth the time and money to get it repaired in my experience!!


----------



## MarshallDog

Mitchell Pearrow said:


>




As always, sounds good Mitch! Like the Gibson T also!!!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

MarshallDog said:


> As always, sounds good Mitch! Like the Gibson T also!!!


I thank you brother, thought it was fitting for the song!


----------



## Patrick1959

MarshallDog said:


> Just trash it not worth the time and money to get it repaired in my experience!!


Thanks, done.


----------



## KraftyBob

Patrick1959 said:


> Thanks, done.


As MarshallDog said, not worth it. I was going to to try and re-cone the speakers (had two bad V30’s) myself just to learn how to do it, but it wasn’t worth the cost of the supplies I’d have to buy. Then I checked into a guy about an hour away and he wanted $45 each to re-cone. Probably not a bad deal if I really wanted these speakers but since I’m not a fan of V30’s my plan would be to then sell them. Add my time, gas and the fact that I’d have to sell them cheap since they were re-coned it was not worth it. 

They are still sitting in my basement. I have a friend that might be interested in getting them re-coned so I’ll just give them to him. Otherwise I’ll likely toss mine too. 

Good to see Amazon did right and refunded your money.


----------



## Bownse

MarshallDog said:


> Just trash it not worth the time and money to get it repaired in my experience!!



Or scrap it for parts. Those magnets are great!


----------



## Micky

Bownse said:


> Or scrap it for parts. Those magnets are great!


Agreed. Unless of course you want to re-cone it...


----------



## Patrick1959

I did salvage the magnet from the speaker. I also ordered a replacement V 30 from Mesa Boogie. They sell UK made Celestion speakers. The speaker I trashed was made in China. Not sure that has anything to do with anything, but had I known before hand, I would have bought from the Ipswich location. It arrived today and it will be Monday before I can put it in the amp. Maybe this one will work. Cheers!


----------



## CincyPaul

Big riffin' this morning with some fuzz, a strat, and a Marshall DSL40x:


----------



## Exojam

I have been the amp recently and had been meaning to check the bias on this one since I had not after the last modification I made for the 6550 power tubes.

Needless to say I am glad I did as one had drifted by 8-10ma.

I had a plate voltage of 427 so my original bias was on the cool side so this time I went up to 60ma. I left the amp on for a few hours and it stayed solid so I decided that was enough time.

Right now I am going through all my preamp tubes to decide what I want in there. I will decide that tomorrow and update this and see how it sounds.

No big rush since I am putting new strings on the Gothic SG.


----------



## Micky

I set mine at 50 and haven't checked it in a while...


----------



## Exojam

That is what I had originally set mine to but I checked a bias calculator and for the tubes I have and the plate voltage I read, 60 was right in the middle so I figured I would give it a try.


----------



## cspencer

Micky said:


> I have gone over this before, and in some other threads as well, I wish I could find the reference to that particular post in this thread. No way am I gonna sift thru almost 300 pages of posts... So here goes:
> 
> You need to remember that preamp tubes (most of them) such as the 12AX aeries are actually 2 tubes in one glass envelope.
> 
> Also, the DSL40c is a 2-channel amp, with 2 'modes' for each channel, effectively giving 4 different voices.
> 
> V1a is the input buffer for both channels of the amp. V1b is the first gain stage of the Ultra Channel. V1B is bypassed for the Classic channel.
> V2 is strictly a cascaded gain stage tube, the output of V1 feeds V2a, and that output feeds V2b. This is essentially the difference between Classic and Ultra, Classic goes V1a->V2a->V2b and Ultra goes from V1a->V1b->V2a->V2b. Follow me so far?
> 
> From V2 onward, both channels go thru basically the same path, with only slight variations.
> 
> V3 is what some call the 'tone stack' as the EQ controls are located right after the circuitry of this tube. It essentially is yet another 2 gain stages, as the output from V2b feeds V3a, which in turn feeds V3b. The EQ controls come next, and then the reverb circuitry. After this is the Master Volume (MV) for each channel. Yhen, just before V4 is the FX Send and Return.
> 
> V4 is actually NOT a preamp tube, it is part of the power section. Commonly referred to a the Phase Inverter (PI) it is what allows the signal from the preamp to push the power tubes in a Class A/B (Push-Pull) operation. It splits the signal into 2, and then flips one side out of phase to feed the finals.
> 
> I know there may be inaccuracies in this long-winded reply, so deal with it. It is an explanation for the majority of us... In all reality, I think I did a much better job earlier on in the thread. Maybe someone can find it and PermaLink it here.


Hi Micky,

Following up on this post. 

If V1b is activated by the ultra channel, then shouldn't V1 be equipped with a tube that has better compression/dstortion? Other Marshalls seem to use V2 as their ultra channel and better compresstion tubes are recommended there; cleaner tubes are recommended for V1. 

Has Marshall changed its ultra channel in the DSL40CR to V1b and the rest of the tubes, including V2, are cascading channels? I hope my reasoning is correct. Your comments are always informative and is really appreciated.

Thank you.


----------



## Micky

I can follow up on this tomorrow...


----------



## Lukas

flashtilley said:


> Has anyone experimented with different preamp tubes in these?


I used the factory tubes for about a month then installed 2 matched SVETLANA EL34’s power tubes and a tungsol preamp tube in V1, preffered series 7025 in V2, EH in V3, and another preffered series 7025 in V4. Can’t say I notice to much of a difference. The Marshall branded JJ’s that my 40CR came with actually sounded damn good, they are newer spares now. I did this mainly because the SVETLANAS sound absolute killer in my JVM and thought I’d try them in the DSL 40CR. Also I wanted to know how to bias this amp as I do that myself also. This amp was biased on the cooler side at 30mv. I did a bunch of reading before hand and biased mine at around 36-37mv. Some info I could not find was pics measuring the screen and plate voltage and where to do that & and actually calculate this properly. I tried a higher mv setting than stock and played it and it sounded great and just left it there, that was about 6 months ago and it still sounds killer. I’m assuming the preamp locations and functions are the same as a JVM? V1 & 2 being gain stages and 3 effects loop etc? I hope so cause that’s what swayed my decision on tube placement. But once again couldn’t find any damn info on this. I will add that I think perhaps the 40C differs in biasing as you need to remove the head from the cab to access the trim pots where the 40CR the trim pots and probing pins are on the outside just behind the screen. No need to remove anything but the back screen to access them. I could be wrong tho as I have a 40CR and not a 40C.


----------



## cspencer

Micky said:


> I can follow up on this tomorrow...


Hi Micky,
I'm not sure if this video has been posted here or not. Check out the the first part where he looks inside and describes how the circuit board works.


----------



## Micky

First, I wouldn't depend on this guy to explain anything.
It's obvious he is guessing about a lot of the stuff he is pointing out.
He really has no clue about what is what, calling relays 'solid state' and ic's 'brain'.
The real indicator that he is clueless is that the TubeStore told him to use JJ's and he believed them.

First of all, the preamp in the 40c and the 40cr is virtually identical.
Except for the controls (master volumes, etc.) the component values are almost the same.
There are a couple slight value changes in the coupling cap RC circuit on the output of V1b but it doesn't really affect tone.

To address your post, V1b is not 'activated' by the Ultra channel.
V1b is 'bypassed' in the Classic channel.
The important thing to remember is that V1a is the input buffer, and lo-noise is what you are after.
'Clean' so to speak is more a lack of gain as far as I am concerned more than anything else.
If clean is what you really want, then a 12AT7 or 12AY7 would be better served.
(the DSL was designed for 12AX7's in the preamp section)

Everything after V1a is amplified further down the circuit, so a noisy tube here will just add needless noise further down the line. Higher gain tubes tend to have more noise, so it is a very fine balance to find a tube that has the proper amount of gain as well as lo-noise. As far as Current Production (CP) tubes are concerned, a 7025 works well here.

V2 is just a cascaded gain stage in both channels. This needs to be a heavier-duty tube in order to handle the higher voltages. V3 is the tone stack and V4 is the Phase Inverter (PI) which is actually part of the Power Amplifier section. The master volumes sit between the tone stack and the power section, as does the FX loop and reverb.

On the 40cr, the board that is mounted perpendicular to the motherboard is the digital reverb. It is obvious from the A/D chip that this bozo in the video calls the 'brain'. On the 40c the board is mounted parallel to the motherboard and covers the IC that controls switching.

To address the last part of your post, the 40c and 40cr are virtually identical in their layout as far as the preamp section is concerned. There are a couple slight value changes but their operational signal path thru to the PA is the same. Marshall hasn't really changed much of anything...


----------



## cspencer

Micky said:


> First, I wouldn't depend on this guy to explain anything.
> It's obvious he is guessing about a lot of the stuff he is pointing out.
> He really has no clue about what is what, calling relays 'solid state' and ic's 'brain'.
> The real indicator that he is clueless is that the TubeStore told him to use JJ's and he believed them.
> 
> First of all, the preamp in the 40c and the 40cr is virtually identical.
> Except for the controls (master volumes, etc.) the component values are almost the same.
> There are a couple slight value changes in the coupling cap RC circuit on the output of V1b but it doesn't really affect tone.
> 
> To address your post, V1b is not 'activated' by the Ultra channel.
> V1b is 'bypassed' in the Classic channel.
> The important thing to remember is that V1a is the input buffer, and lo-noise is what you are after.
> 'Clean' so to speak is more a lack of gain as far as I am concerned more than anything else.
> If clean is what you really want, then a 12AT7 or 12AY7 would be better served.
> (the DSL was designed for 12AX7's in the preamp section)
> 
> Everything after V1a is amplified further down the circuit, so a noisy tube here will just add needless noise further down the line. Higher gain tubes tend to have more noise, so it is a very fine balance to find a tube that has the proper amount of gain as well as lo-noise. As far as Current Production (CP) tubes are concerned, a 7025 works well here.
> 
> V2 is just a cascaded gain stage in both channels. This needs to be a heavier-duty tube in order to handle the higher voltages. V3 is the tone stack and V4 is the Phase Inverter (PI) which is actually part of the Power Amplifier section. The master volumes sit between the tone stack and the power section, as does the FX loop and reverb.
> 
> On the 40cr, the board that is mounted perpendicular to the motherboard is the digital reverb. It is obvious from the A/D chip that this bozo in the video calls the 'brain'. On the 40c the board is mounted parallel to the motherboard and covers the IC that controls switching.
> 
> To address the last part of your post, the 40c and 40cr are virtually identical in their layout as far as the preamp section is concerned. There are a couple slight value changes but their operational signal path thru to the PA is the same. Marshall hasn't really changed much of anything...


Hi Micky,
I was wondering too why he used words like IC's and brains. Hilarious.

Thanks for your reply. It answers a lot of questions. I get it now, when you say V1b is bypassed in classic channel (Edit) as opposed to activated by ultra channel (/Edit). That makes a lot of sense and it helps me understand the circuit.

I've tried tubes in V1 and didn't really like them. It ranged from Mullard M8137, Brimar CV4004, to I62, f92 and more. In the end I preferred I63's and really loved one that's lopsided 100%/125%. I also like a Heerlen I65 that tested 60/65 (32 is 65%).

I've understood V3 and V4 from earlier posts so I won't repeat them here.


----------



## krb813

Can someone recommend a good bias level for the DSL40CR. I'm getting ready to check it.

Thanks


----------



## cspencer

krb813 said:


> Can someone recommend a good bias level for the DSL40CR. I'm getting ready to check it.
> 
> Thanks


34. It also depends on what tubes your using. I've biased it at 36 for a long time but now prefer a less nasally sound at 34.


----------



## Jon C

@Micky …… Hi there …… Do you happen to know the value of the Treble Bleed Cap for the Ultra Gain Channel in the DSL40CR ?


----------



## Micky

I believe that on the 40cr it is not installed.


----------



## Bownse

krb813 said:


> Can someone recommend a good bias level for the DSL40CR. I'm getting ready to check it.



Because these are analog devices, a fixed target number for a bias isn't "best" for everyone. It's supposed to be a calculation based on your specific plate voltage. That's affected by the tubes installed.

https://www.amplifiedparts.com/tech-articles/tube-amplifier-bias-calculator

Once you nail that setting and play it for a while, you might find that your personal preference is lower (cooler) or higher (hotter) than the calculations give you. If you then move it up or down based on how soon you want distortion to happen and by how much. Less gives you more head room before distorting. Low enough and you won't get to distortion before the amp is maxed out (if that's what you like, then maybe a Fender amp is more to your tastes than a Marshall). High enough and tubes die sooner. Pick your poison.


----------



## NYgroove

I just ordered a G12 Vintage 30 can't wait to put it in. I never changed an amp speak before I hope it sounds good.


----------



## Bownse

Speaker swaps are the easiest mod to do short of putting Hello-Kitty stickers all over the outside of the cabinet.


----------



## NYgroove

I just installed the Vintage 30 and I couldn't be happier. WOW!!! What a difference. A DSL40 on steroids.


----------



## Micky

IMO, the Seventy/80 was a poor choice for an open-back combo like this. I think a couple years after Marshall released the 40c they realized this, and offered different OEM choices.

The Seventy/80 is, however, a great (inexpensive) speaker for a closed-back cab. It also works well in some other combos that aren't quite as 'bright' as a Marshall. The Vintage 30 as well as the WGS Veteran 30 are very popular replacements for the 40c.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Been trying to work my way out of a slump, and thought I would post this clip back here in one of my favorite threads!
Cheers Mitch


----------



## BanditPanda

The DSL's are delivering in this one Mitch.
BP


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

BanditPanda said:


> The DSL's are delivering in this one Mitch.
> BP


Thanks brother, I am using the tone lab for the delay.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Same settings as above.
But faded SG, instead of the LP.
Cheers Mitch


----------



## BanditPanda

Mitch I'm thinking this is the best one yet in terms of composition and playing.
Go with the flow bro.
BP


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

BanditPanda said:


> Mitch I'm thinking this is the best one yet in terms of composition and playing.
> Go with the flow bro.
> BP


Thanks Ray .
The compliment goes further from a fellow player.


----------



## Bownse

Micky said:


> IMO, the Seventy/80 was a poor choice for an open-back combo like this. I think a couple years after Marshall released the 40c they realized this, and offered different OEM choices.
> 
> The Seventy/80 is, however, a great (inexpensive) speaker for a closed-back cab. It also works well in some other combos that aren't quite as 'bright' as a Marshall. The Vintage 30 as well as the WGS Veteran 30 are very popular replacements for the 40c.



I can buy into that. When I split out the C into a Head+2-speaker-closed-back-cab, I put the Seventy/80 back into service next to the 75w Creamback. They compliment each other very well in their new home.

https://www.fjr-tips.org/misc/amp/DSL40C_Mod/A_Project.html


----------



## Lukas

Why would Marshall put 2 high microphone 12AX7’s in this amp? I thought high microphonics was a bad trait? V3&4 are a long plate SHUGUANG 12AX7B’s. I looked them up they’re a pretty cheap tube, like $11. The EH 12AX7 are a kind of a longer plate. Would these be a better tube in these slots? The SHUGUANGS sounded pretty good tho. Right now I have a EH in V3 and a preferred series 7025 in V4. Any other long plate such as a JJ ECC803 they say it’s not ideal for a combo amp due to vibration, I have a couple 803’s in my JVM and they’re killer.


----------



## Almann

Anybody ever get a Strat to cooperate with a DSL40C ? I had a DSL40CR , but at the time I played just Les Pauls . Loved that combo but got rid of the amp because I thought I was done gigging and it was overkill for the bedroom . Well , turns out I'm not done gigging . I picked up what looks like a never played DSL40C in an open box for a price that was stupid . The Les Pauls play well enough but the Strat refuses to play nice in the Red channel . The Strat has EMG DG pups which are active pups . The amp as we speak is at my amp techs shop getting a Creamback and a C19 bypass switch installed which I've read about extensively in this thread . 
Any thoughts on how to tame the Strat with this amp ?


----------



## solarburn

Almann said:


> Anybody ever get a Strat to cooperate with a DSL40C ? I had a DSL40CR , but at the time I played just Les Pauls . Loved that combo but got rid of the amp because I thought I was done gigging and it was overkill for the bedroom . Well , turns out I'm not done gigging . I picked up what looks like a never played DSL40C in an open box for a price that was stupid . The Les Pauls play well enough but the Strat refuses to play nice in the Red channel . The Strat has EMG DG pups which are active pups . The amp as we speak is at my amp techs shop getting a Creamback and a C19 bypass switch installed which I've read about extensively in this thread .
> Any thoughts on how to tame the Strat with this amp ?



Green channel clean(not crunch)with amp gain maxed or close to it and mildly boosted with a pedal. Cleans up nicely with guitar volume.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Almann said:


> Anybody ever get a Strat to cooperate with a DSL40C ? I had a DSL40CR , but at the time I played just Les Pauls . Loved that combo but got rid of the amp because I thought I was done gigging and it was overkill for the bedroom . Well , turns out I'm not done gigging . I picked up what looks like a never played DSL40C in an open box for a price that was stupid . The Les Pauls play well enough but the Strat refuses to play nice in the Red channel . The Strat has EMG DG pups which are active pups . The amp as we speak is at my amp techs shop getting a Creamback and a C19 bypass switch installed which I've read about extensively in this thread .
> Any thoughts on how to tame the Strat with this amp ?


What Solarburn said and in the other modes hit the tone shift button on the front panel.
And welcome to the forum.
Cheers 
Mitch


----------



## Micky

I basically use the tone switch when I go from an LP to a Fender guitar...


----------



## Almann

Thanks for the replies everyone , it's appreciated . I'll try these suggestions when I get the amp back . I'll let you know how I make out .............


----------



## saxon68

Just picked up a used DSL40C, I’d sold my old one back a few years ago, and have been using all modeling the last couple years.

saw this one pop up and he wanted a guitar swap, I had a seven stringer I wasn’t using and he loved it.

it’s unusual, the Tolex is a cream color, the pictures he had looked more white and when I saw I gave it a sniff to make sure it wasn’t smoke discolored, no cigarette smell.

it’s got the old style basketweave grill but the handle is all black, no brass or chrome metal parts on top.

sounds great, as I remembered, and I popped the back off and the tolex behind the back cover matches the outside.

picture attached is the one that was in the ad, my new picture won’t load, “too big”


----------



## MarshallDog

saxon68 said:


> View attachment 65478
> Just picked up a used DSL40C, I’d sold my old one back a few years ago, and have been using all modeling the last couple years.
> 
> saw this one pop up and he wanted a guitar swap, I had a seven stringer I wasn’t using and he loved it.
> 
> it’s unusual, the Tolex is a cream color, the pictures he had looked more white and when I saw I gave it a sniff to make sure it wasn’t smoke discolored, no cigarette smell.
> 
> it’s got the old style basketweave grill but the handle is all black, no brass or chrome metal parts on top.
> 
> sounds great, as I remembered, and I popped the back off and the tolex behind the back cover matches the outside.
> 
> picture attached is the one that was in the ad, my new picture won’t load, “too big”



Congrats on the new/used amp and welcome back to the tube world


----------



## saxon68

MarshallDog said:


> Congrats on the new/used amp and welcome back to the tube world


Yep now I’ve got tubes to go with my kemper and Helix Stomp


----------



## gary moore

Micky said:


> Index to this thread here:
> 
> Side Handle Photos: The Official Marshall DSL40c Information Thread
> Gut Shot Photos: The Official Marshall DSL40c Information Thread
> C19 Cap Mod Photos: The Official Marshall DSL40c Information Thread
> ClassicTone OT Replacement: http://www.marshallforum.com/index....nformation-thread.53780/page-146#post-1232202
> 
> Feel free to post your mods & other DSL40c related content here.
> This thread is for others to reference when looking for vital info.
> 
> Many of these posts should be relavent to the DSL100h as well as the DSL15, as all the newer DSL amps now share many common features & components. For example, the DSL100h uses the same chassis and internal board and components of the DSL40c, except it has 2 more output tubes as well as the extra related components.
> 
> I will start with a couple of photos in this thread, and add more photos in other posts as I don't want each post to be too 'pic-heavy'. If anyone has any requests for photos of specific components or areas of the 40c please let me know and I will shoot them next time I pull the chassis from the case.
> 
> I would also like to link all the other DSL40c threads here, as they contain some great posts as well as a lot of good information. Feel free to add whatever you want as long as it is related.
> 
> First I would like to state that I am NOT a great guitar player, and I WON'T be posting any clips. Although I used to play in a cover band back in the late '70s, my skill has not kept up with the times. Others are much more talented here and I am sure there will be a few to offer some demos. What I WILL post here is some relavent info, and a bunch of photos. So here goes.
> 
> The DSL40c is Marshalls newest DSL, along with the DSL100h head version and the DSL15h and DSL15c. These amps are made in Vietnam. Before you start to poo-poo this new line for being made overseas, rest assured these are built to Marshalls specifications. In my opinion, they are made as well, if not better than anything made in the UK or even in the USA. The boards inside appear to be wave-soldered hi-quality PC boards, and the components are well-spaced and symmetric.
> 
> The case appears to be HDF, not MDF. It seems much tougher and harder than MDF, although it is still not birch ply. Personally I don't think it matters much, I have seen ply crushed as easily as anything else, but the true test will be over time. I got a good look when I cut the sides of the case open for some new handles.
> 
> Yes, I have already drilled and cut the case, one of the first mods so far. Many of you wil notice this amp doesn't have any side handles, and because I am getting a bit older (and a bit wiser as well) I felt I needed to add some decent metal handles. It will allow for two people to carry the amp as well as allow easier placing of the amp on top of another cab. With the speaker replacement, this amp now weighs 55 pounds, and I feel that is a bit much for the top handle alone.
> 
> Here is a photo of the installed handles:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You need to measure VERY carefully, as one might have a tendency to want to mount the handles high, near the top. The particular metal handles I uses have a bit of depth to them, I mounted them so the PT and OT clear them by about 1/4 inch. I can provide dimensions if anyone needs them.
> 
> Gut shots and other info to follow...


Yep,read all that and it sounds good.My experience is otherwise? Three times let down with three new amps !! Went back to UK made 50 DSL no problems at all. Shame really as I liked the 40C.


----------



## AlanH

saxon68 said:


> View attachment 65478
> Just picked up a used DSL40C, I’d sold my old one back a few years ago, and have been using all modeling the last couple years.
> 
> saw this one pop up and he wanted a guitar swap, I had a seven stringer I wasn’t using and he loved it.
> 
> it’s unusual, the Tolex is a cream color, the pictures he had looked more white and when I saw I gave it a sniff to make sure it wasn’t smoke discolored, no cigarette smell.
> 
> it’s got the old style basketweave grill but the handle is all black, no brass or chrome metal parts on top.
> 
> sounds great, as I remembered, and I popped the back off and the tolex behind the back cover matches the outside.
> 
> picture attached is the one that was in the ad, my new picture won’t load, “too big”



Many congrats. She looks very cool. 

You cannot beat a DSL40C for all round, no worries gigging.


----------



## Bill jones

Micky said:


> Here are some gut shots of my DSL40c.
> Again, if anyone has any requests for specific photos let me know.
> Here is a shot of the bias trimpots:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a shot of the bias test connector.
> Remember, when checking/setting the bias, the left trimpot adjusts the right test point...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I finally got the bias evened out at 38.xx and all seems very stable:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will post more as time





Micky said:


> Here are some gut shots of my DSL40c.
> Again, if anyone has any requests for specific photos let me know.
> Here is a shot of the bias trimpots:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a shot of the bias test connector.
> Remember, when checking/setting the bias, the left trimpot adjusts the right test point...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I finally got the bias evened out at 38.xx and all seems very stable:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will post more as time permits...


----------



## Bill jones

Hey Mickey Bill here I have a dsl 40c amp. Any advice will be much appreciated. I turn my amp on let it warm up. So it's on but no sound. Is it a blown fuse or bad tubes.


----------



## Bill jones

Micky said:


> Here are some gut shots of my DSL40c.
> Again, if anyone has any requests for specific photos let me know.
> Here is a shot of the bias trimpots:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a shot of the bias test connector.
> Remember, when checking/setting the bias, the left trimpot adjusts the right test point...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I finally got the bias evened out at 38.xx and all seems very stable:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will post more as time permits...


----------



## Micky

Bill jones said:


> Heyickey Bill here I have a dsl 40c amp. Any advice will be much appreciated. I turn my amp on let it warm up. So it's on but no sound. Is it a blown fuse or bad tubes.


Is the standby on?
Both front panel switches should be in the same orientation in order to play.


----------



## Bill jones

Micky said:


> Here are some gut shots of my DSL40c.
> Again, if anyone has any requests for specific photos let me know.
> Here is a shot of the bias trimpots:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a shot of the bias test connector.
> Remember, when checking/setting the bias, the left trimpot adjusts the right test point...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I finally got the bias evened out at 38.xx and all seems very stable:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will post more as time permits...





Micky said:


> Is the standby on?
> Both front panel switches should be in the same orientation in order to play.


----------



## Bill jones

Yes it sure is.


----------



## Bill jones

The weird thing is . It was working I picked up my guitar and was turning the volume knob on the guitar up thinking that the volume knob was going bad then it just stop making noise at all.


----------



## Bill jones

So I plugged my guitar into a smaller crate amp I have. And the guitar was working fine which told me it's the amp


----------



## Bill jones

Micky said:


> Is the standby on?
> Both front panel switches should be in the same orientation in order to play.



Yes it sure is.


Micky said:


> Is the standby on?
> Both front panel switches should be in the same orientation in order to play.



Yes it sure is


----------



## Dogs of Doom

plug your guitar straight into the effects return - do you get sound?

(you might need to plug in another cable into the send to activate the return)


----------



## EC Strat

*EC StratNew Member*
So I have the new / updated version of this mighty amp. I kept having to keep the trebles at 9 o’clock and the presence on 10 and it still was ice pick. After a TON of online research some problem solving and a little luck I decided F*** it - you only live once and what can go wrong?? Best I could figure is the bright cap on the new DSL 40 cr is at C 73 for the ultra gain channel. It still has a 470 pf cap - I clipped it and put in a 100 pf. Mind you I wasn’t 100% sure that this was the right cap but was pretty sure. Only one way to find out!!

it didn’t go well I don’t think had the legs of rhe cap all the way through the board - took it to my amp tech and he tweaked it and got it working! 

I’m here to say that it’s AWESOME now!! Able to fully dial in the tone stack and use the trebles and presence at 1-2 o’clock now and get a great scooped : brown tone. The tone shift sounds much better now too when it’s engaged bc the torn stack is set properly now. 

it was 2 weeks of not knowing if it totally screwed up my amp or not but it ended well. 

just wanted to share in case it helps someone else


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

saxon68 said:


> View attachment 65478
> Just picked up a used DSL40C, I’d sold my old one back a few years ago, and have been using all modeling the last couple years.
> 
> saw this one pop up and he wanted a guitar swap, I had a seven stringer I wasn’t using and he loved it.
> 
> it’s unusual, the Tolex is a cream color, the pictures he had looked more white and when I saw I gave it a sniff to make sure it wasn’t smoke discolored, no cigarette smell.
> 
> it’s got the old style basketweave grill but the handle is all black, no brass or chrome metal parts on top.
> 
> sounds great, as I remembered, and I popped the back off and the tolex behind the back cover matches the outside.
> 
> picture attached is the one that was in the ad, my new picture won’t load, “too big”


I love the look of your amp Saxon.
Cheers Mitch


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Bill jones said:


> Yes it sure is.
> 
> 
> Yes it sure is


Welcome to the forum, have you also tried the preamp tubes.
One of mine lost sound, not 100% but enough to make it barely audible, preamp tube fixed it.
Cheers to getting back in shape !!
Mitch


----------



## Bill jones

Thanks Mitchell I'll give a try I appreciate the info.


----------



## Bill jones

Dogs of Doom said:


> plug your guitar straight into the effects return - do you get sound?
> 
> (you might need to plug in another cable into the send to activate the return)





Dogs of Doom said:


> plug your guitar straight into the effects return - do you get sound?
> 
> (you might need to plug in another cable into the send to activate the return)




I'll give it a try thanks for the info.


----------



## Bownse

Micky said:


> Is the standby on?
> Both front panel switches should be in the same orientation in order to play.



And Brit switches are opposite of ours. Down is on.


----------



## Bownse

EC Strat said:


> *EC StratNew Member*
> So I have the new / updated version of this mighty amp. I kept having to keep the trebles at 9 o’clock and the presence on 10 and it still was ice pick. After a TON of online research some problem solving and a little luck I decided F*** it - you only live once and what can go wrong?? Best I could figure is the bright cap on the new DSL 40 cr is at C 73 for the ultra gain channel. It still has a 470 pf cap - I clipped it and put in a 100 pf. Mind you I wasn’t 100% sure that this was the right cap but was pretty sure. Only one way to find out!!
> 
> it didn’t go well I don’t think had the legs of rhe cap all the way through the board - took it to my amp tech and he tweaked it and got it working!
> 
> I’m here to say that it’s AWESOME now!! Able to fully dial in the tone stack and use the trebles and presence at 1-2 o’clock now and get a great scooped : brown tone. The tone shift sounds much better now too when it’s engaged bc the torn stack is set properly now.
> 
> it was 2 weeks of not knowing if it totally screwed up my amp or not but it ended well.
> 
> just wanted to share in case it helps someone else



You might want to share all this in the thread: http://www.marshallforum.com/threads/the-official-marshall-dsl40cr-information-thread.100006/

So that others with your new version will see it.


----------



## Bill jones

Bill jones said:


> Yes it sure is.
> 
> 
> Yes it sure is




I took it apart and found that the standby switch has a fuse for that switch and that's where the problem was that fuse was blow switch it out and it had sound now. How ever I noticed my select switch is not working properly. So I'm not sure how to fix that myself theres not any videos on you tube on how to fix that problem any ideas would be helpful.


----------



## CincyPaul

Here's a one minute jam on the Marshall DSL40c using only the amp's effects.


----------



## Micky

Bill jones said:


> I took it apart and found that the standby switch has a fuse for that switch and that's where the problem was that fuse was blow switch it out and it had sound now. How ever I noticed my select switch is not working properly. So I'm not sure how to fix that myself theres not any videos on you tube on how to fix that problem any ideas would be helpful.


Which select switch are you speaking of?
Is the footswitch plugged in?


----------



## BanditPanda

No intention of interrupting the current problem fixing going on.
Just to say if anybody with the DSL40 can get a close approximation to this sound I'd sure love to know how to do it. With or without pedals. I got the guitar for it.
BP


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

BanditPanda said:


> No intention of interrupting the current problem fixing going on.
> Just to say if anybody with the DSL40 can get a close approximation to this sound I'd sure love to know how to do it. With or without pedals. I got the guitar for it.
> BP



Try the green crunch, volume at 8 then use the gain for level and a clean boost pedal for the grit, his intro sounded like a bit of a fuzz pedal, and play with the volume knob on the guitar.
Hope that helps.
Mitch


----------



## jeffb

I've got a DSL40C.

I can get a close approximation to this by using an entirely different amp 

Honestly, no. That's a plexi type circuit jacked up with a healthy amount of the normal channel jumpered in (and possibly some H magnet speakers). EDIT- I see now he used a Greenback. 

Closest to would be with Green crunch low on the preamp, some H mag speakers, Some serious volume (or an attenuator) and some really filthy sounding power tubes and PI.

Still that is way too flithy/loose for a DSL to approximate


----------



## BanditPanda

Thanks boys. When at the 18 second mark he flips to the bridge pup. That is just such a rich sound. ( got no other words ). It's like perfect ! And then when he steps into the solo at 1:13.
Yeah that is filthy. LOL.
I'll give'em a try.
BP


----------



## jeffb

Filthy. 

That's my new buzzword.


----------



## jeffb

BanditPanda said:


> Thanks boys. When at the 18 second mark he flips to the bridge pup. That is just such a rich sound. ( got no other words ). It's like perfect ! And then when he steps into the solo at 1:13.
> Yeah that is filthy. LOL.
> I'll give'em a try.
> BP




Those are great sounding amps- Here is an hour of killer singlecuts with a killer player, through the Magnatone 80


----------



## bluesymetal

Hey guys, after a hiatus I got back into playing (hopefully gigging again soon) and scooped up a dsl 40c on the cheap.

I have a good amount of experience with JCM 800, JCM 2000’s, a silver jubilee, Stiletto’s, Budda and Spalwn and I’ve got to say, I really dig this little combo! Especially through a v30 loaded cab. 

I use both green crunch with the gain on about 7 and red 1 with the gain around 4. Im using a Xotic EP boost in front. On the crunch I get Jimi to AC/DC depending on the guitar and if I have the pedal on. On red it’s GnR to AIC again depending on the combo with the pedals. The xotic keeps it nice and open sounding.

Now that long winded post aside, I’d like to add an OD to stack with the xotic on the crunch channel that compresses the signal and warms it up for thick single note tones. I tried a fulldrive 2 and a joyo tubscreamer clone and thought both were a little harsh in the top end. 

I’m thinking about trying a OCD or a BB Pre unless there are some better suggestions. Any experience with either or other recommendations?


----------



## BanditPanda

Have you had experience of using a compressor pedal as first pedal in the chain?
BP


----------



## bluesymetal

BanditPanda said:


> Have you had experience of using a compressor pedal as first pedal in the chain?
> BP



I’ve actually never used a compressor at all.


----------



## BanditPanda

bluesymetal said:


> I’ve actually never used a compressor at all.




Well only to say that for ..."that compresses the signal and warms it up for thick single note tones".... you may not need another O/D pedal but rather a compressor pedal.
They are worth looking into. Perhaps more experienced hands than mine can/will add to that opinion.
BP


----------



## Micky

bluesymetal said:


> Hey guys, after a hiatus I got back into playing (hopefully gigging again soon) and scooped up a dsl 40c on the cheap.
> 
> I have a good amount of experience with JCM 800, JCM 2000’s, a silver jubilee, Stiletto’s, Budda and Spalwn and I’ve got to say, I really dig this little combo! Especially through a v30 loaded cab.
> 
> I use both green crunch with the gain on about 7 and red 1 with the gain around 4. Im using a Xotic EP boost in front. On the crunch I get Jimi to AC/DC depending on the guitar and if I have the pedal on. On red it’s GnR to AIC again depending on the combo with the pedals. The xotic keeps it nice and open sounding.
> 
> Now that long winded post aside, I’d like to add an OD to stack with the xotic on the crunch channel that compresses the signal and warms it up for thick single note tones. I tried a fulldrive 2 and a joyo tubscreamer clone and thought both were a little harsh in the top end.
> 
> I’m thinking about trying a OCD or a BB Pre unless there are some better suggestions. Any experience with either or other recommendations?


You might reach a larger audience if you post this question in the Tone Zone. Lots of pedal users monitor that section.

For me the obvious choice for a boost is a BOSS SD-1. Mine is modded a bit. I also have other OD pedals but I havent used them with the 40C. Also have a couple compressor pedals, but again, not a lot of use with the 40C...


----------



## CincyPaul

Here's a cover I recorded on a Marshall DSL40c.


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## BanditPanda

Nice, Cincy!
BP


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

CincyPaul said:


> Here's a cover I recorded on a Marshall DSL40c.



Excellent playing, took me back in time.
Thanks for sharing your work, nice clean tones !
Cheers 
Mitch


----------



## Bownse

I have those tools but once again, as with my finshing places in many rallies I've ridden, it's the Rider and not the Bike.

Great job.


----------



## bluesymetal

So I recently got a multimeter to check the bias on my 40c. My tubes must have just been thrown in there, because one was at 70(!!!) and the other at 32. I couldn’t get the one tube lower then 51. Lucky enough I had a bunch of spare tubes. I had a matched set of Sevtlana’s, biased them to 36 and wow what a difference lol. 

I’m using a way huge green rhino (volume half up, drive almost off) and an exotic EP boost (set around noon) into the crunch channel with the gain dimed and it sounds massive! I’m also messing with my rat clone by which is giving me some cool sabbathy tones. Running it into my Mesa 2x12 with V30’s right now, but I have a WGS ET-65 on its way to replace the stick speaker and try to use it just as a combo.


----------



## bluesymetal

Here’s a quick clip on an iPhone camera, just the rhino is on.


----------



## Bownse

36 is where I do mine too. A little cool but it gives more head room and leaves "heavy" distortion to effects.


----------



## SteelLucky

I actually have been biasing mine down at 32 now. I like the amp now more than I did in the past. Power tubes seem to last a lot longer now too.


----------



## bluesymetal

38 is about the high end for these amps right? I was going to do 35 but most of what I play is in the vein of AC/DC, GnR, Motorohead etc. Although I do like to play some SRV and Jimi. The green channel really nails that stuff with a strat or rolling back my volume. Really enjoying this amp, I do find that I still have to roll back the treble and presence a little if I really open up the volume.


----------



## jeffb

I've settled on 35-36. For a long time I biased a bit hotter around 38, then for awhile down to 32-33, and with my rig, anywhere in that 35-36 sounds best. Hotter and the sound gets a bit tubby, colder it gets too crispy/thin in the highs.

I think If I was running V30s, I'd probably stick to that 38 range. H30 bass cones, go on the colder side.


----------



## Bownse

Running a redesigned DLS40C as a head/dual speaker cab, I used the OEM speaker and a Celestion G12 H-75 Creamback. The tone at 36 works for me in this setup.


----------



## riefil

DSL40C seems to have lost some sizzle. Do you all think bias adjustment or tube replacement is the best option. I've biased before and I'm wondering if it's too cool. If I remember correctly, I biased at about 34. Will hotter bias=more sizzle?

thanks in advance,

Phil


----------



## Exojam

Have you checked the bias?


----------



## BanditPanda

Not sure if hotter = more sizzle however if I remember correctly there are members who swear that the DSL40C sounds better running colder rather than hotter. 34 is pretty cold though, I'm thinking.
BP
p.s. If I remember correctly my tech said that my DSL40C came from the factory biased at 38. He left it there.
Maybe give it a shot and see.


----------



## riefil

Exojam said:


> Have you checked the bias?


Not yet. I figured if I'm in there and the consensus is to change the tubes can do it one-fell-swoop.


----------



## riefil

BanditPanda said:


> Not sure if hotter = more sizzle however if I remember correctly there are members who swear that the DSL40C sounds better running colder rather than hotter. 34 is pretty cold though, I'm thinking.
> BP
> p.s. If I remember correctly my tech said that my DSL40C came from the factory biased at 38. He left it there.
> Maybe give it a shot and see.


I know I wrote down what I set them at, now I need to find where I put it lol.


----------



## Exojam

I would not change anything until you make that check.


----------



## BanditPanda

riefil said:


> Not yet. I figured if I'm in there and the consensus is to change the tubes can do it one-fell-swoop.



Fell-swoops are good!! AND ****Band Name of the Week***** Ladies & Gentlemen..... The Fell-Swoops !!!
BP


----------



## riefil

BanditPanda said:


> Fell-swoops are good!! AND ****Band Name of the Week***** Ladies & Gentlemen..... The Fell-Swoops !!!
> BP


I think you'd have to play a Fender offset of some sort with that band.


----------



## BanditPanda

Desperately Googling Fender offset !!!
BP


----------



## BanditPanda

Like the Paranormal Offset Tele:
https://shop.fender.com/en/intl/squ.../paranormal-offset-telecaster/0377005521.html


----------



## Bownse

Bias can be set based on what sounds you want (chasing tone). Cooler gives you more head room before distorting. Hotter gets into the distortion sooner but may not leave you with any "clean" tones you might want (think the harmonics in some songs).

Too cool and you get no crunch (distortion). Too hot and you get no clean/clear tone.

Read your existing bias to know where it is. Think about what is missing that you want, and move forward (changing 1 thing at a time and playing for a while) from there.


----------



## riefil

Bownse said:


> Bias can be set based on what sounds you want (chasing tone). Cooler gives you more head room before distorting. Hotter gets into the distortion sooner but may not leave you with any "clean" tones you might want (think the harmonics in some songs).
> 
> Read your exiting bias to know where it is. Think about what is missing that you want, and move forward (changing 1 things at a time and playing for a while) from there.


I looked last night and couldn't find my measurements from the last time I biased it. I guess I'll have to dive in when I get some uninterrupted time.
I was also thinking that I've added some pedals to my chain and that I'm losing some signal. Have to plug straight in to see if that changes anything noticeable. Although I have a Boss SD-1 at the beginning of my chain, which if I'm correct, is buffered.

Phil


----------



## riefil

BanditPanda said:


> Desperately Googling Fender offset !!!
> BP


Another Band name?!?!?!


----------



## BanditPanda

Don't be absurd!
Yes it is my understanding that Boss pedals (in the majority) are buffered.
BP


----------



## greenkamikaze7

Hello all! I am a long-time guitar player and just landed my 2nd Marshall by total freak occurrence. My 1st was a JMP-1 preamp mated to a QSC RMX850 power amp, running into 2x Marshall 1960B 4x12 cabs with the G12-T75's. That rig was used from 2002-2006/7 playing metal in various local clubs in the northern N.E. area. So with getting my 2nd one, I decided to come here to read up about the amp, mods, reliability and to see what some of you guys have done for fixes, repairs and tricks to get this thing sounding amazing. I was shocked to see more than 525+ pages and more than 10K responses in this thread, and am trying to read them all from the beginning. So far I am only on page 25 ! But I will say this much: I'm loving the research, the ability to not only mod the amp, but how you guys are showing how to, with what and where, as well as the overall rave reviews you all are giving this amp & how everyone helps each other out with the support is phenomenal! I can tell I'm gonna like being here!

I work at a transfer station, and found this DSL40C in the pile that just got pushed up with the loader! I'm sure if it hadn't gotten pushed up, the grill cloth and the speaker wouldn't need to be replaced. The other issue with it is the power cord receptacle, it got cracked on the inside and needs to be replaced as well.

However, despite the broken speaker & cracked cable receptacle, I was able to test it out quickly at work the other day. I had been able to pull the receptacle out to be able to plug it in and turn it on, and I had disconnected the connections on the broken speaker and plugged them onto a 12" Celestion in a Line 6 Spider 4 75W combo to test it out. And shockingly, THE AMP WORKS!!! Channels & modes switch as they should. The EQ works. The reverb does too, but is stronger in the clean/crunch channel than the distortion channel. The Presence control works, but the Resonance control seems to not be working. And the Tone Shift works as well, but seems very weak. The tones and volumes on this thing are surprising from the quick test I had given it, but find the overall distortion tones to be a bit flat and on the muddy side- even with the treble and presence controls all the way up! and I want to do a few more tests with it now that I have it home and can run it thru some REAL speakers/cabs. The first will be my Mesa Boogie Recto 2x12 w/ Vintage 30's, and trying a Boss EQ-200 10-band EQ thru the effects loop and see if that helps.

Below are a few pics of it. First one is how it looked after I rescued it from going to the landfill. The next one is how it currently sits - with the front and back panels off, awaiting a new speaker grill cloth & Marshall emblem. The last is a shot of V1, it looks like a tube was swapped in this already. The rest of them are all still the original Marshall labeled tubes. I am also planning on converting this to a head as well, keeping the original 1x12 box incase I decide to sell it. Not to mention, I have not only the Mesa 2x12, but an Ibanez ToneBlaster X 4x12 cab as well. So having this as a head will be more beneficial to me.

I have a few questions I am dying to ask you all, and will after this one. I wanted to say Hi and stuff first, and show you the amazing rescue I happened to find. I will keep you all posted with the updates as they happen. Again thanks for having me, and looking forward to chatting with you guys to help me make and get this beast roaring again soon!


----------



## KraftyBob

Welcome and congrats on finding the DSL. +1 on converting it to a head since it’s beat up already. Check the thread here as some guys have done this.


----------



## greenkamikaze7

KraftyBob said:


> Welcome and congrats on finding the DSL. +1 on converting it to a head since it’s beat up already. Check the thread here as some guys have done this.



Thanks man! And in all honesty, the amp and box itself are actually in really good shape surprisingly! It has a small ding on one of the edges on the back, a small rip in the tolex on one of the top corners, and a cracked plastic corner on the top left side in the back. Other than that, the thing cleaned up great. And if I thought the grill cloth and speaker replacement wasn't attainable, doable and worth it, hen I would have left it in the pile.

And I was thinking about how to cut the speaker portion of the box off and modify it to make it a head, but I found someone that makes a case to convert it into a head. I'm also considering using this as a power amp to beefed up the output of my Peavey 6505MH, or running this DSL40C as a more appropriate live rig - pending I get the thing to sound better by running the Boss EQ-200 10-band thru the loop... I plan on testing it out this weekend thru my Ibanez 412 and see if I can deal without using the weak tone shift & inactive Resonance control... I would like both to be functional, and with a better, stronger function than they currently have.

And I intend to fully check this thread out to see what else others have done with these -head conversions included. Its gonna take a while due to working 60 hours a week, but I definitely intend to!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

greenkamikaze7 said:


> Thanks man! And in all honesty, the amp and box itself are actually in really good shape surprisingly! It has a small ding on one of the edges on the back, a small rip in the tolex on one of the top corners, and a cracked plastic corner on the top left side in the back. Other than that, the thing cleaned up great. And if I thought the grill cloth and speaker replacement wasn't attainable, doable and worth it, hen I would have left it in the pile.
> 
> And I was thinking about how to cut the speaker portion of the box off and modify it to make it a head, but I found someone that makes a case to convert it into a head. I'm also considering using this as a power amp to beefed up the output of my Peavey 6505MH, or running this DSL40C as a more appropriate live rig - pending I get the thing to sound better by running the Boss EQ-200 10-band thru the loop... I plan on testing it out this weekend thru my Ibanez 412 and see if I can deal without using the weak tone shift & inactive Resonance control... I would like both to be functional, and with a better, stronger function than they currently have.
> 
> And I intend to fully check this thread out to see what else others have done with these -head conversions included. Its gonna take a while due to working 60 hours a week, but I definitely intend to!


Congratulations on your score brother 
Welcome to the forum.
You are correct this is a big healthy thread but please take your time and read through it.
Tons of valuable information is abound in it.
Cheers 
Mitch


----------



## Bownse

KraftyBob said:


> Welcome and congrats on finding the DSL. +1 on converting it to a head since it’s beat up already. Check the thread here as some guys have done this.



I documented my conversion here: http://fjr-tips.org/misc/amp/DSL40C_Mod/A_Project.html


----------



## Micky

Greetings!

Without reading your post, and only looking at the photos, I immediately thought the amp had been dropped off the back of a truck. It is amazing that it was a dump find! My dad was a picker, and found most of my childhood stuff there.

You have found the right place. There are a bunch of people here who are experienced with this amp, and are very willing and able to help. Don't be afraid to ask questions, you won't get roasted too bad and you will generally have to sort thru all the opinions in order to find the answer you are seeking.

And yes, this thread is long and involved. But inside it you will find a wealth of information. You will soon learn that you can skip thru a lot of it, and still get a lot of content to sort thru. I never imagined that when I created this thread it would become the largest and most searched DSL40c thread on the internet. This is most certainly a tribute to all the members that have contributed to it as well as their expertise. It has become an outstanding reference, I just wish I had the time and energy to create a better first page index for it.

I am certain you will enjoy your time here.


----------



## greenkamikaze7

Bownse said:


> I documented my conversion here:



That's what I'm looking to do with this one! And your cab for the converion looks almost identical to the one from Mission Engineering! 


Thats the one I'm looking at buying to finish this project and getting it looked at for the weak Tone Shift & non-functioning Resonance control. Im just waiting to hear back from them as to which size Marshall emblem they drill the front panel for, the 9" thats on the front of the combo, or the 11"...

But it looks awesome! Can't wait to do it with mine and start trying it out with the rest of my gear! Thanks man!


----------



## greenkamikaze7

Micky said:


> Greetings!
> 
> Without reading your post, and only looking at the photos, I immediately thought the amp had been dropped off the back of a truck. It is amazing that it was a dump find! My dad was a picker, and found most of my childhood stuff there.
> 
> You have found the right place. There are a bunch of people here who are experienced with this amp, and are very willing and able to help. Don't be afraid to ask questions, you won't get roasted too bad and you will generally have to sort thru all the opinions in order to find the answer you are seeking.
> 
> And yes, this thread is long and involved. But inside it you will find a wealth of information. You will soon learn that you can skip thru a lot of it, and still get a lot of content to sort thru. I never imagined that when I created this thread it would become the largest and most searched DSL40c thread on the internet. This is most certainly a tribute to all the members that have contributed to it as well as their expertise. It has become an outstanding reference, I just wish I had the time and energy to create a better first page index for it.
> 
> I am certain you will enjoy your time here.



Hey Mike! Thanks for the welcome! And I try not to bring stuff home from work for obvious reasons, but any gear that I find thats worth saving I do. And this happened to be THE best piece yet in the 5 years I've been at this job!

I'm definitely going thru every page in this thread and seeing what others have done with it and overall reliability of these amps. I have to thank you for posting the biasing info right in the very first page, that will come in BIG use! Also, the tubes you run in yours sound like a good mix and batch, but I'm sure a set for what I'm going to use this amp for will be different (primarily metal, but also lots of classic and hard rock as well...). So I'll be looking forward to recommendations for tubes and any other insight I can get while here for this thing!

And since you brought it up, I do have a few questions I'd like to ask about this amp and possible fixes... I still haven't played thru it since the initial test the other night, I'm waiting for the new power cord receptacle due in tomorrow before I do. But some of the other things I'm curious about are:

*Have you or anyone here been able to figure out how to address a non-functioning Resonance control?? The Presence control works fine, but I get nothing out of the Resonance control.

*Speaking of the Resonance and Presence controls, is there a way of increasing how much more they can affect the tone? Compared to the Peavey 6505MH i just picked up recently, the amount of effect they have seems moderately weak in comparison...

*Is there also a way of increasing the amount of effect the Tone Shift has? This is something else that it works, but its weaker than the Resonance and Presence controls... I would like to boost that as well too, if at all possible...

I'll start with those for now, which are the main concerns with this amp for the time being...

Again, thanks Micky and everyone for having me!


----------



## Micky

To start with, the Presence and Resonance controls on the 40c are very subtle. They are also very dependent on the speaker/cab you are using. Also, one may have varying degrees of control with different cabs/speakers, where one control will have a marked effect while the other does not, and vice versa. So find the cab/speaker combination you like and then go from there adjusting or modding the circuit.

The Tone Shift should have a marked effect no matter what guitar you have plugged in. Make sure the amp is all set and working well before you judge how well it works. As you will read, there are different reasons to use the Tone Shift, I use it depending on which guitar I am using (single-coil vs. humbucker), while others may use it depending on which cab/speaker they are using.

Most people (including me) complain about the weak reverb. I really haven't heard of the symptoms you describe other than the brief mention of it in passing. There could very well be something wrong, but get it all working first before you decide to go probing into it further. Get the tubes sorted out, and the Ultra Channel working reliably first.


----------



## JMP1shaun

Hi everyone just had to let you all know I picked myself a DSL40C on eBay £300 ,only picked this amp up as we have had to move home temporarily while some building work is done & had no room for DAW rack set up (Focusrite liquid 56,JMP1,TC Gmajor2 ,KRK VXT8,voodoo labs ground control & loop switcher)boy this thing rocks!!!!!stick my King of Tone pedal in the front and bam !!serious tone only thing iam not over keen on is the red channel needs the bright cap pulling ,also my ground control is playing up not holding its programing and iam struggling to find a trusted tech to take a look if any forum members from the UK can recommend anyone I would be grateful don’t want to ship it out of the UK as it’s not financially viable thanks


----------



## Bownse

greenkamikaze7 said:


> That's what I'm looking to do with this one! And your cab for the converion looks almost identical to the one from Mission Engineering!
> View attachment 81287
> 
> Thats the one I'm looking at buying to finish this project and getting it looked at for the weak Tone Shift & non-functioning Resonance control. Im just waiting to hear back from them as to which size Marshall emblem they drill the front panel for, the 9" thats on the front of the combo, or the 11"...
> 
> But it looks awesome! Can't wait to do it with mine and start trying it out with the rest of my gear! Thanks man!



I moved the one that was OEM over. It fits as you see.

To fix the nearly-nonexistent reverb, I added a SAS by Fryette. Tube-based to keep true to the nature of the 40C.


----------



## greenkamikaze7

Update on the DSL40C i found:

Bought a speaker - a take-out Celestion G12-T75 - and got it installed in the combo. Power cord receptacle replaced. Amp was on Half Power mode, tubes all seemed to be glowing normally (no odd colors or anything, no burning smell...). Fired it up and got the following results:

Classic Gain channel:
Clean & Crunch sound good, no break-up, no weird noises or anything. Like everyone else here has stated and noticed, the crunch section when activated is much louder than when in clean mode.

Ultra Gain channel:
The first thing I noticed is that this amp is and can be very dark and bass, to great excess, even with the Resonance control all the way down. EQ controls work and are responsive, as well as the Tone Shift function and the Resonance and Presence controls!

Once I gave it a little better go-thru with the combo speaker, I went back & forth between it and the 4x12 cab, as well as running the effects loop. Running thru the loop are a Boss EQ-200 10-band Graphic EQ & NS-2 Noise Supreessor.

The ONLY issue I am finding:
While in the Ultra Gain channel, in either mode, is something weird. No unusual signal noise or anything like that (with the NS-2 off...), but while playing it... the best way to describe it is its like a wah-type sound. When you play either a single note or a chord, it sounds like a wah being pressed for a second, and then the sound is normal... I tried to attach 2 sound clips but it won't let me upload them... any suggest how I can attach them so you all can hear this sound its making???

Not sure if its something to do with the tubes, or something inside got jarred when it got pushed with the loader up into the pile, or what. But this doesn't seem to be normal and has me a little bit concerned... If any of you more detail-oriented guys have any ideas or suggestions, I'm all ears. I am efficient with a soldering iron so I can change/swap components if needed - unless ots something that should be left to a pro... let me know what you guys think. Thanks!


----------



## Bownse

You can upload them somewhere that file-supports and put a link here. A lot of folk here use SoundCloud.


----------



## greenkamikaze7

Okay, so I think I was able to get them uploaded somewhere to share here... Let's try this:
First is with the graphic EQ (in the effects loop) off:
https://soundcloud.app.goo.gl/cXzd

And with the graphic EQ On: https://soundcloud.app.goo.gl/1UAe

Its hard to hear in these recordings, but in the little riff-type thing I play, it seems to be choking out some... It might be harder to hear without headphones, and I think it's a bit more noticeable with the EQ on than off...


----------



## Bownse

Nice. Like the way it sounds in 1. I'd EQ 2 with more treble or less bass but that's just a preference thing. I think I hear the "scooping" you're talking about. It sounds appropriate in the progressions you're doing and I've heard it elsewhere and never thought twice about it.


----------



## greenkamikaze7

Bownse said:


> Nice. Like the way it sounds in 1. I'd EQ 2 with more treble or less bass but that's just a preference thing. I think I hear the "scooping" you're talking about. It sounds appropriate in the progressions you're doing and I've heard it elsewhere and never thought twice about it.



Hmmm... as I mentioned in my initial reply with details of getting a new speaker in it, it can and had a tendency to be very dark and muddy if you set the bass and/or Resonance too high on it... and I would have to go back and re-tweak the EQ for it's own A & B channels specifically for the Marshall. I have it perfectly tweaked for the 6505MH ATM...

And the "scooping" thats happening is right in the very first few milliseconds of the note or chord being played. Doesn't matter if its from a dead stop or letting the last note ring out, it does it on every single one. To me, it doesn't sound right, and I know that playing it like that is going to bother me. Playing something like Metallica's Creeping Death would sound off because of the choking out its doing.

This is why I'm curious if it might be a tube issue, or something else... Im setting it aside for now and am going to plan on getting a new set of tubes for it in the next month or so. But it sounds okay otherwise, hoping its just something simple and stupid...

EDIT: The guitar used in the recording is a '14 ESP LTD ST-213 w/ maple neck & FB, Seymour Duncan Hot Rails in the bridge, std. E...


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

I thought it sounded damn good.
Like the tone you are getting.
Cheers 
Mitch


----------



## greenkamikaze7

Mitchell Pearrow said:


> I thought it sounded damn good.
> Like the tone you are getting.
> Cheers
> Mitch



Thanks Mitch! It sounds really decent on its own, and I can get it dialed in just about perfect once I set the EQ-200 10-Band to it... But the choking out irs doing g is going to drive me nuts!! The amp settings were as follows:

Triode (Half Power) mode
*Ultra Gain, Lead 2.
Gain: 10
Volume: 1
Treble: 5.5
Mid: about 5 (IIRC, was playing with it before and after recording...)
Bass: 3
Tone Shift: In
Presence: 10
Resonance: 2

And as for the EQ-200 settings: I have it so I am running Channel A out, into Channel B, and Channel B out to the NS-2 Return jack. But the attached pics are how I have both channels on the EQ set. First is A (per the graph on the screen, NOT the sliders... Typical "V" mid scoop, with slightly 1st slider lower bass), second is B (to tighten it up further. Graph and sliders are how B is set...)


----------



## Micky

I would try a different set of tubes, tube rolling in the preamp can change things one way, and changing the finals might change thins another way. When I put my TAD EL34's in it made a big difference in both the treble response as well as the bass. You should try new ones there first, then roll a few thru the preamp section. 

Your best indicator will be thru a cab, as you can detect minor changes there best. With the open back of a combo the room and placement will make things more difficult to pick out.

Does anything look odd inside the chassis? You could always have a bad component or a loose cable somewhere...


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

I am always using the full power on mine.
But for low volume I am using a Vox Tone Lab on the green clean channel, with the Vox Tone Lab I use the 68 UK amp sim, and the tube overdrive on it.
When I go for gig volume on green crunch or red ultra 2, I use the MXR10 band eq along with the SD1 set as a clean boost, both of mine still have the stock speakers, but I set them up on top of mg 4-12 cabs, I like what I am hearing.
Cheers 
Mitch


----------



## greenkamikaze7

Micky said:


> I would try a different set of tubes, tube rolling in the preamp can change things one way, and changing the finals might change thins another way. When I put my TAD EL34's in it made a big difference in both the treble response as well as the bass. You should try new ones there first, then roll a few thru the preamp section.
> 
> Your best indicator will be thru a cab, as you can detect minor changes there best. With the open back of a combo the room and placement will make things more difficult to pick out.
> 
> Does anything look odd inside the chassis? You could always have a bad component or a loose cable somewhere...



I'm already planning on getting a new set of tubes for it - TAD kit from StewMac (if you think they would be more preferred for metal and hard/classic rock...), and seeing what happens from there. Your right about getting and having a spare set, just in case... And thats already got me planning for my 6505MH as well!

I also ran the amp bith thru the combo, and thru my Ibanez 4x12. I was able to pick out on both how much effect the everything had to it - more so on the cab - but both yielded the same results pretty much... Both can be really dark and muddy, and both have the audible initial "scoop" for the first few milliseconds before sounding normal. 

And from when I had the chassis out (a few times now...), nothing looked out of place, dirty, wet, or damaged - which is surprising considering where it was pulled from... But I will check it again the next time I pull it out to swap the tubes in it, just to make sure...

The one thing I DID notice is that once I got everything set up and powered it on after getting the speaker in, I had no sound out of it & had remembered that I forgot to plug the speaker back in! This was for maybe 5 seconds before I realized it and shut it back off... I know that this is a BIG no-no, and can cause damage... Im wondering if I screwed something up as a result... Im hoping not, and not too bad IF I did...


----------



## greenkamikaze7

Mitchell Pearrow said:


> I am always using the full power on mine.
> But for low volume I am using a Vox Tone Lab on the green clean channel, with the Vox Tone Lab I use the 68 UK amp sim, and the tube overdrive on it.
> When I go for gig volume on green crunch or red ultra 2, I use the MXR10 band eq along with the SD1 set as a clean boost, both of mine still have the stock speakers, but I set them up on top of mg 4-12 cabs, I like what I am hearing.
> Cheers
> Mitch



I typically use half power, because I'm not playing out and all my playing is done at home in my bedroom. And since I live in a condo, I certainly don't want to piss the neighbors off... Im even running my 6505MH at 5W, because at 20 it can get obnoxious! 

The EQ-200 10-Band & NS-2 are the only things I use thru the loop, the rest is on the floor. And all of my guitars are active equipped except for one. So my signal chain goes as follows:
*EMG ES-918 power supply pedal (to supply power to the pickups and electronics in the guitars...)
*Boss TU-2 tuner 
*DigiTech FreqOut 
*Dunlop Petrucci Crybaby Wah 
*DigiTech Whammy DT 
*TC Electronic MIMIQ Doubler 

I put a take-out G12-T75 in the combo, and 2 more in the minty used Mesa Boogie Recto 2x12 I got with the 6505MH, and my Ibanez ToneBlaster X 412 has the stock speakers in it still. I will eventually upgrade that one with G12-K100's at some point, because I primarily play 7-strings and guitars in lower tunings.


----------



## Bownse

Micky makes a good point about open/closed backs. The conversion I did was to a closed-back from the speaker cab. That did its thing but also putting BOTH the OEM speaker and the Creamback I'd swapped into the combo into the 2x cab played a part.

Other have done a choke swap but they'll have to speak to the intent/affect and if that would address the scooping. I'm assuming from your posts that you've had tube amps before and know they aren't "constrained" in their analog reactions to input like digital amps are.


----------



## greenkamikaze7

Bownse said:


> Micky makes a good point about open/closed backs. The conversion I did was to a closed-back from the speaker cab. That did its thing but also putting BOTH the OEM speaker and the Creamback I'd swapped into the combo into the 2x cab played a part.
> 
> Other have done a choke swap but they'll have to speak to the intent/affect and if that would address the scooping. I'm assuming from your posts that you've had tube amps before and know they aren't "constrained" in their analog reactions to input like digital amps are.



Oh yeah, the dynamics difference between an open back & closed back are huge - just as the speaker itself thats in there is, how many speakers, the amount of power your pushing to them, tubes, everything... Amps are no different than guitars when it comes to how they get their sound. I - like @wangchung, from what I saw by his posts earlier in this thread - am an audiophile in that regard. Only I am more so with the guitars and the pickups and switching/wirings in/on them more than with the amps.

And my only other tube amp was the Marshall JMP-1 I had from 2002-2006. But I've played on and thru enough different brand and model tube amps to know that what your talking about is true... I've seen that some have done the choke, and wondered what the purpose of it is for...

But I'm thinking the scooping could be a result of my not having the speaker plugged in when I turned it back on. Granted it was maybe 5 seconds before I realized what was wrong and shut it back off before any serious damage occurred, but still... So I'm wondering if a combination of the shocked from being pushed with the loader into the pile and this brief "no load" issue is playing hell with the tubes enough to cause it... Im gonna order a set soon and swap them to find out...


----------



## greenkamikaze7

So here's a little bit of an update on the transfer station rescued DSL40C!

As most of you know by now, the new speaker - a take-out Celestion G12-T75 was loaded into it and the power cord receptacle on the back was replaced. The key pieces I was waiting on was the grill cloth and the new emblem for the front. Those came in finally, and its now back together in one piece!

I am going to be ordering a new set of tubes this weekend for it. After reading @MartyStrat54 's write-up about the tubes that went into @Micky 's amp, I am going with something kinda similar... Im gonna go with the same TAD EL34's for the power tubes, and I am taking Marty's advice on the GE JAN 12AX7WA for V3, and am gonna run the Sylvania 12AX7's in the other 3 spots. Since I primarily play a lot of hard/classic rock and metal, I figured these would be a good choice and worth the extra $$ compared to the JJ set offered by Europe's. We'll see, and hoping that the new tubes solve the "scooping" issue im having.

As a side note: I also took each tube out and cleaned the pins and sockets with contact cleaner. Hoping that this too works and I can keep using the existing tubes for a little bit longer...

But the progress so far:


----------



## Bownse

Lookin' good!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

greenkamikaze7 said:


> So here's a little bit of an update on the transfer station rescued DSL40C!
> 
> As most of you know by now, the new speaker - a take-out Celestion G12-T75 was loaded into it and the power cord receptacle on the back was replaced. The key pieces I was waiting on was the grill cloth and the new emblem for the front. Those came in finally, and its now back together in one piece!
> 
> I am going to be ordering a new set of tubes this weekend for it. After reading @MartyStrat54 's write-up about the tubes that went into @Micky 's amp, I am going with something kinda similar... Im gonna go with the same TAD EL34's for the power tubes, and I am taking Marty's advice on the GE JAN 12AX7WA for V3, and am gonna run the Sylvania 12AX7's in the other 3 spots. Since I primarily play a lot of hard/classic rock and metal, I figured these would be a good choice and worth the extra $$ compared to the JJ set offered by Europe's. We'll see, and hoping that the new tubes solve the "scooping" issue im having.
> 
> As a side note: I also took each tube out and cleaned the pins and sockets with contact cleaner. Hoping that this too works and I can keep using the existing tubes for a little bit longer...
> 
> But the progress so far:
> View attachment 81720


Excellent job on the rescue amp.
Sounds like you have a great plan in place and good amount of tones are in front of you.
Cheers 
Mitch


----------



## greenkamikaze7

Mitchell Pearrow said:


> Excellent job on the rescue amp.
> Sounds like you have a great plan in place and good amount of tones are in front of you.
> Cheers
> Mitch



Thanks Mitch! I havent played through it since my initial testing with the new speaker in it. And I'm debating putting the new tubes in it until the new case for the head conversion comes in in a few weeks... Im actually gonna try it tomorrow since I sprayed some contact cleaner on the tube pins and sockets, so we'll see what happens. 

But aside from this project, I have just completed another guitar project (an LTD ST-213 clone...), plus I need to order a new set of tubes for my Peavey 6505MH, and spend some time playing it - especially since my Mesa Recto 2x12 got upgraded with the other 2 take-out Celestion G12-T75's that the DSL40C got. Plus, I haven't played in the last few weeks, so I need to play, period!

And thanks @Bownse !!!

Will post additional updates as they happen!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

greenkamikaze7 said:


> Thanks Mitch! I havent played through it since my initial testing with the new speaker in it. And I'm debating putting the new tubes in it until the new case for the head conversion comes in in a few weeks... Im actually gonna try it tomorrow since I sprayed some contact cleaner on the tube pins and sockets, so we'll see what happens.
> 
> But aside from this project, I have just completed another guitar project (an LTD ST-213 clone...), plus I need to order a new set of tubes for my Peavey 6505MH, and spend some time playing it - especially since my Mesa Recto 2x12 got upgraded with the other 2 take-out Celestion G12-T75's that the DSL40C got. Plus, I haven't played in the last few weeks, so I need to play, period!
> 
> And thanks @Bownse !!!
> 
> Will post additional updates as they happen!


All is good bro, have fun with your amp and enjoy your self. Thanks 


Mitch


----------



## greenkamikaze7

Still trying to read through this monstrosity of a thread (only gotten to page 65 so far...), and goofing with the DSL again today to further see the extent of this scoploping and somewhat of a cut-out its doing on the faster-playing stuff. This is what I'm finding:

*Classic Gain (clean & crunch modes): still nothing, this channel and both modes play beautifully, as it should.

*Ultra Gain: In Lead 1 mode, I can get the gain up to 8 before it starts doing it. On Lead 2 mode, with the gain anywhere past say 4 does it. This is irregardless of the EQ settings, Resonance and Presence controls, Tone Shift on or off, or full or half power modes...

I'm ideally waiting for the head conversion case to come in before having to take it all apart and swap the new tubes in it and re-bias the amp, but its apparent that my cleaning the pins on the tubes and the contacts in the sockets did nothing to resolve this issue... 

I'm beginning to think it has something to do with that half of the amp's circuit itself - perhaps damage from being thrown (???, doubting that since its a heavy bitch...) in the truck or pushed with the loader. Im also thinking that while the current tubes and re-tweaking the bias **MIGHT** have something to do with it, I'm not completely convinced that that is going to fix it. If not, then it will be brought to a shop to have them check it and see.


----------



## nah_tan

can somebody please send me the schematic??

Hello all,

Had some magic smoke release recently and it looks to be the resistor on a power tube. I turned it off quickly but melted some wiring so I’m replacing that as well. I’m looking for the schematic for this amp so I can double check my new wiring and troubleshoot any additional probalems. Planning a tube and speaker swap as well as the usually C19 removal and some other mods. If anybody could send me the schematic that would be great!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

nah_tan said:


> can somebody please send me the schematic??
> View attachment 81785
> Hello all,
> 
> Had some magic smoke release recently and it looks to be the resistor on a power tube. I turned it off quickly but melted some wiring so I’m replacing that as well. I’m looking for the schematic for this amp so I can double check my new wiring and troubleshoot any additional probalems. Planning a tube and speaker swap as well as the usually C19 removal and some other mods. If anybody could send me the schematic that would be great!


Welcome to the forum 
As far as I know, there hasn’t been one released.
Cheers 
Mitch


----------



## test dsa

nah_tan said:


> can somebody please send me the schematic??
> View attachment 81785
> Hello all,
> 
> Had some magic smoke release recently and it looks to be the resistor on a power tube. I turned it off quickly but melted some wiring so I’m replacing that as well. I’m looking for the schematic for this amp so I can double check my new wiring and troubleshoot any additional probalems. Planning a tube and speaker swap as well as the usually C19 removal and some other mods. If anybody could send me the schematic that would be great!



I found a working link, but i need at least 3 posts to post an url, so here's my dsl40c story:

Replaced speaker -> eminence legend v12 iirc
jj el34 after the originals died
preamp tubes i changed as well, not a fan of the oem chinese tubes


----------



## test dsa

Circuit mods:

c19 changed to 120p
c12 changed to 1u
c4 changed to 56p
removed c22 (might put it back)


----------



## test dsa

and the third...


----------



## test dsa

Schematic: https://www.dropbox.com/s/b8kf5c6bh4lfyaf/DSL40-60-02-v02.pdf?dl=0


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

test dsa said:


> and the third...


A belated 
Welcome to the forum


----------



## greenkamikaze7

Hey guys! So another update on my DSL40C resurrection...

*I bought a new set of tubes for it. I bought 3x Sylvania 12AX7's for V1, V2 & V4, a GE JAN 12AX7WA for V3 (per Marty's recommendation...), and a set of TAD EL34B-STR's for the power tubes.

*My new head cabinet came in from Mission Engineering, and it's absolutely beautiful! My project tomorrow after digesting Thanksgiving dinner, is to re-arrange my amps and cabs to set the Marshall on top of my 4x12.

However, there is something I am puzzled by when checking the bias on the new tubes... I know the general numbers are 37/38mV each tube. When I checked mine, it read 11.8 on each... ??? So I went to start adjusting it up to the normal 37 or 38, it maxed out at like 24... when I saw that the other tube was the same reading - 12mV - I set the other tube back down to 12 to match...

With this being said, what do you guys think it could be thats causing the readings to be so low??? After re-inspecting everything inside the chassis, and making sure the tubes are seated correctly and all the way in, nothing looks out of place or damaged & all the tubes are all the way in...

I am going to put everything back together and test it out playing it and see if I'm still getting the "scooping/pulling the blanket off the front of rhe speaker" sound issue I've been having or not with the new tubes in it...

But I am looking for any suggestions or ideas as to why the bias readings are so low. Any help is greatly appreciated! I will also follow up with an updated pic of the head and my setup(s)!

Thanks as always guys!!


----------



## Micky

Sounds like a bad component in the bias circuitry.
Does the bias current actually adjust?
Do you know where to measure the actual negative bias voltage?
Do the old tubes act the same?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm just making sure to touch all bases...


----------



## greenkamikaze7

Micky said:


> Sounds like a bad component in the bias circuitry.
> Does the bias current actually adjust?
> Do you know where to measure the actual negative bias voltage?
> Do the old tubes act the same?
> 
> Sorry for all the questions, I'm just making sure to touch all bases...



Hey Micky, Happy Thanksgiving man, and all!!!

Yes, the bias does adjust via the trim pots.
Yes, measuring from the CONN5 connector, middle pin is the ground/negative & each side is the positive for each tube.

I hadn't checked with the old tubes, but I'll do that today and see.

But from what I HAD noticed is that the "scooping" issue seems to have dissipated some... I noticed that in Lead 2 mode, I can get the gain up to about 8 before it starts doing it - as compared to doing it anywhere past 4 previously... So I'm sure the new tubes did help some...

Will report back with new findings later today. Don't eat too much everyone!!


----------



## greenkamikaze7

Pulled the new 34's out and put the originals back in to check the bias, and those read at 15-ish each... 

Put the new 34's back in an rechecked the bias on those to 12 each again... and just for the hell of it, I wanted to see what the range was on the trim pots per min and max... my minimum was 4.2mV, and my max was 31.8mV... 

so with the originals still reading fairly low like that, I'm gonna guess that there is something in/on the board itself that is causing the issue - possibly the scooping issue too when the gain is max'd out... I'm also curious that since I set these lower than the stock ones, if that's causing the "scooping" issue to decrease... 

Either way, its going to get dropped off, checked out and fixed. Its still totally worth it for me to have it done.


----------



## greenkamikaze7

And as I believed I mentioned in one of my earlier posts, the board and everything internally looks good - nothing burnt, broken, damaged, etc... I know that doesn't always mean thats the case, but usually if something is burnt/broken and you can physically see it, then that is your starting point. Here's the pics of everything inside the chassis...

Also, here's something interesting with the stock EL34'S... There's a sticker on them from and by Tube Amp Doctor!!! I'm guessing this is a 2016 model, from what I can see of the stickers in/on it...


----------



## tmingle

greenkamikaze7 said:


> Hey guys! So another update on my DSL40C resurrection...
> 
> *I bought a new set of tubes for it. I bought 3x Sylvania 12AX7's for V1, V2 & V4, a GE JAN 12AX7WA for V3 (per Marty's recommendation...), and a set of TAD EL34B-STR's for the power tubes.
> 
> *My new head cabinet came in from Mission Engineering, and it's absolutely beautiful! My project tomorrow after digesting Thanksgiving dinner, is to re-arrange my amps and cabs to set the Marshall on top of my 4x12.
> 
> However, there is something I am puzzled by when checking the bias on the new tubes... I know the general numbers are 37/38mV each tube. When I checked mine, it read 11.8 on each... ??? So I went to start adjusting it up to the normal 37 or 38, it maxed out at like 24... when I saw that the other tube was the same reading - 12mV - I set the other tube back down to 12 to match...
> 
> With this being said, what do you guys think it could be thats causing the readings to be so low??? After re-inspecting everything inside the chassis, and making sure the tubes are seated correctly and all the way in, nothing looks out of place or damaged & all the tubes are all the way in...
> 
> I am going to put everything back together and test it out playing it and see if I'm still getting the "scooping/pulling the blanket off the front of rhe speaker" sound issue I've been having or not with the new tubes in it...
> 
> But I am looking for any suggestions or ideas as to why the bias readings are so low. Any help is greatly appreciated! I will also follow up with an updated pic of the head and my setup(s)!
> 
> Thanks as always guys!!


Are you measuring the bias in 1/2 power mode? It may affect your readings. Personally, I never cared for the 1/2 power mode on this amp.


----------



## greenkamikaze7

tmingle said:


> Are you measuring the bias in 1/2 power mode? It may affect your readings. Personally, I never cared for the 1/2 power mode on this amp.



No, measuring it in full power mode.


----------



## Ren Furtado

Hi, guys! New member here. I was wondering if you guys could give me input on preamp tubes for my DSL40C.

I'm thinking on using Sovtek's 12AX7-LPS for v1 and v4 and keep the stock Marshall tubes on v2 and v3. Is that ok or should I replace them all?

After watching many comparison vids on youtube the Sovtek tubes still sound the best for my ears. But, I'm open to suggestions.

In my country, I can also easily find EHX, Mullard and JJ.

Cheers from Brazil!


----------



## Bownse

Be careful about comparos of on-line videos. The mics are unknown (as are the clipping and other recording attributes) to give it much credence beyond a start prior to FtF listening.


----------



## Ren Furtado

Bownse said:


> Be careful about comparos of on-line videos. The mics are unknown (as are the clipping and other recording attributes) to give it much credence beyond a start prior to FtF listening.



Thanks, Bownse. And, yes, you're absolutely right.

I'm thinking on replacing the v1 and v4 tubes and keep the stock Marshall's on v2 and v3. Is that ok? Do I have to replace all four tubes?


----------



## Bownse

I had some tubes and rolled them to get what I like. I also biased a little cool (36 iirc). I have some TADs, some Mullards, and something else I can't remember right now.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Ren Furtado said:


> Hi, guys! New member here. I was wondering if you guys could give me input on preamp tubes for my DSL40C.
> 
> I'm thinking on using Sovtek's 12AX7-LPS for v1 and v4 and keep the stock Marshall tubes on v2 and v3. Is that ok or should I replace them all?
> 
> After watching many comparison vids on youtube the Sovtek tubes still sound the best for my ears. But, I'm open to suggestions.
> 
> In my country, I can also easily find EHX, Mullard and JJ.
> 
> Cheers from Brazil!


Welcome to the forum
Your ears are going to be the final answer for the positions you are going to put them in (preamp tubes)
I put a 12AT7, in V2
5751 in V4
And that sounds pretty good on my Dsl40c’s, it vastly helped out the red 2 ultra channel.
Cheers
Mitch


----------



## Ren Furtado

Thank you, Mitchell and Bownse.

It was very helpful and informative.


----------



## Ninjaking67

Hey guys!
I'm a once in a while visitor but regularly see Mitch Pearrow on TTR! I have a question for you "all knowing" types. I hope it wasn't already answered somewhere within the 529ish pages of this thread and I just missed it!
I have an older DSL40C that I performed the C19 mod on. I was unhappy with the fizziness of the OD before the mod but now I am not pleased with how dark the OD sounds.
I read that putting a 100pF cap in place of the existing C19 should be the sweet, happy medium. Any idea what voltage value this cap should be?
Thanks in advance for any advice! Cheers.

EDIT: I should maybe note that in addition to the C19 mod, the amp has an Eminence Redcoat Governor speaker.
The tube compliment is currently ECC823 in V1, 5751 in V2, ECC83MG in V3 and 5751 in V4. It still has the stock Marshall branded power tubes.


----------



## Bownse

I did the C19 mod, swapped in a 75 Creamback and noted the darker tone but felt it was better than with the C19. I then moved it all into a 2-speaker closed back cab with separate head. The Creamback and the OEM speaker went into the new cab and the overly-bright OEM speaker compliments the other mods.

I'm not saying "do like me" but maybe that experience can form a game plan: (different speaker(s))? Higher rated C19 (which has been discussed here at length).


----------



## Ninjaking67

Guys, it seems I just found the answer on Page 519, courtesy of Jon C. Looks like 100V will do!

Thank you Jon C!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Ninjaking67 said:


> Guys, it seems I just found the answer on Page 519, courtesy of Jon C. Looks like 100V will do!
> 
> Thank you Jon C!


Welcome to the forum my brother 
Cheers


----------



## rodrigoeliedson

Hi, Guys!
DSL40c its not for me.
Love the Jubilee 2525


----------



## Bownse

Do you take on piece work?


----------



## rodrigoeliedson

Bownse said:


> Do you take on piece work?



Hi, Bownse!
No, I don't. I'm live in Brazil.
Did it in my personal gig amplifier. 
Cheers!


----------



## KraftyBob

DSL40C and Johan Segeborn...


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

This is a clip of how I like to run my Dsl40c,, the clip above by JS , is a great variety of tones from this amp ..


----------



## greenkamikaze7

So FINALLY, I have an update for you guys about my DSL40C...

On my last post, I had put new tubes in it and had an extremely low bias reading on both the new and the original tubes. I also had an issue what seemed to sound like a blanket being pulled off the front of the amp itself in the very first few milliseconds of playing it. This is the result since I had it dropped off about a month ago...

Apparently, a few of the pots had been pushed in from the front of the amp, which had loosened some of the contacts where they solder to the board and loosened the pots themselves (pot casings started becoming unclipped...). They were all re-seated, reconnected any and all loose connections, burned in the new tubes correctly and re-biased to proper numbers. Despite all of this, I still noticed the sound issue its had before I dropped it off...

But here is what I found interesting... I had stopped at GC for a set of strings, and tried out a guitar thru a brand new DSL40CR. I instantly noticed that the CR has the same sound issue as my 40C does... So I'm thinking it has something to do with the design and construction of the circuit of the amp itself...

So even with all the new parts, tubes and work that went into rescuing this amp, it's not one I'm gonna hang on to... It does sound good in both channels and both modes withing each channel, but that sound issue is enough for me to not want it... 

As a result, I have both the amp and the head conversion cabinet I had made by Mission Engineering up for sale on Reverb. I *MIGHT* see if GC will give me an even trade on the amp for the Jackson 7-string I tried out while I was there yesterday. So ideally, the head cabinet is up for grabs if anyone wants to do a conversion on thier DSL40C...

Thanks for all the help and insight guys, I really appreciate it. You have gotten me in the right direction with the amp, but its unfortunately just not the right amp for me. Hope you guys keep rocking, and stay safe during these insane times we all face right now! 

Josh in NY


----------



## Angry Possum

caiokiss said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Yes, it is 100% stock. Even the tubes are stock.
> 
> I'll probably try new tubes soon, but I don't think I'll change the speaker (good speakers are very expensive here). As for the C19 mod, it sounds interesting, maybe I'll try someday, but for now I think it's fine like it is, I just roll off the tone knob of the guitar a little bit.



Just going over this huge thread, as I just purchased a DSL40 from GC, picking it up tomrw.

Exactly with respect to tone, watch this.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Angry Possum said:


> Just going over this huge thread, as I just purchased a DSL40 from GC, picking it up tomrw.
> 
> Exactly with respect to tone, watch this.




 TO THE FORUM 
Congratulations on a fine amp,
Post clips up once you’ve had a bit of time with it.
Cheers 
Mitch


----------



## Angry Possum

Mitchell Pearrow said:


> TO THE FORUM
> Congratulations on a fine amp,
> Post clips up once you’ve had a bit of time with it.
> Cheers
> Mitch



Thanks Mitch, appreciate the hospitality.


----------



## Bownse

Anyone have a concise explaination of the differences between the DSL40c and their MG50DSX (other than "10")?


----------



## Micky

The MG series is Solid State, where the DSL series is all tube.


----------



## Bownse

And already twin 12's.


----------



## ledvedder

Can anyone help me out with the screw sizes for the 4 speaker mount screws, and also the screw size for the cabinet back screws?


----------



## solarburn

.


----------



## solarburn

Fuck those DLS's up.


----------



## solarburn

solarburnDSL50 said:


>




Well? Some DSL's rip.

especially in front of red panties...


----------



## solarburn

.


----------



## solarburn

Angry Possum said:


> Just going over this huge thread, as I just purchased a DSL40 from GC, picking it up tomrw.
> 
> Exactly with respect to tone, watch this.




my mutherfucker!


----------



## StrummerJoe

I joined this forum because of this amp. I almost feel like I stole this...bought it for $250 and it is in stock & mint condition except for a couple of creases in the owners manual.

It's my first proper Marshall after 33(?) years of playing. My other current amps are a Rivera Jake Studio Combo, Mesa Boogie Fillmore 50, Denver Amp works Bobcat, and Fender SuperChamp XD.

I've had it for a couple of weeks now and like others was surprised by the clean channel. Not impressed with the reverb at all...in fact it sucks, IMHO. I put a Digitech Polaris set to plate in the loop and it's instant early 80's LA. My HOF mini also yields good results. I haven't decided yet if I'm going to keep it or flip it, but for what I paid I have plenty of time to think it over for a long time. So far I am pretty darn pleased with it! Here's a pic :




Loving this thread - lots of good info - and WOW!!! 530 pages! I'm on page 6 so far LOL.


----------



## suzook

StrummerJoe said:


> I joined this forum because of this amp. I almost feel like I stole this...bought it for $250 and it is in stock & mint condition except for a couple of creases in the owners manual.
> 
> It's my first proper Marshall after 34/35(?) years of playing. My other current amps are a Rivera Jake Studio Combo, Mesa Boogie Fillmore 50, Denver Amp works Bobcat, and Fender SuperChamp XD.
> 
> I've had it for a couple of weeks now and like others was surprised by the clean channel. Not impressed with the reverb at all...in fact it sucks, IMHO. I put a Digitech Polaris set to plate in the loop and it's instant early 80's LA. My HOF mini also yields good results. I haven't decided yet if I'm going to keep it or flip it, but for what I paid I have plenty of time to think it over for a long time. So far I am pretty darn pleased with it! Here's a pic :
> 
> View attachment 88693
> 
> 
> Loving this thread - lots of good info - and WOW!!! 530 pages! I'm on page 6 so far LOL.


That's a great deal. I got the same amp with a vintage 30 thrown in it for $300. It really is a great amp, and yeah the reverb does blow. No distortion pedals necessary though with this thing. Sounds just like 80's metal. I would check your bias, make sure its set up proper. Very easy to do.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

StrummerJoe said:


> I joined this forum because of this amp. I almost feel like I stole this...bought it for $250 and it is in stock & mint condition except for a couple of creases in the owners manual.
> 
> It's my first proper Marshall after 33(?) years of playing. My other current amps are a Rivera Jake Studio Combo, Mesa Boogie Fillmore 50, Denver Amp works Bobcat, and Fender SuperChamp XD.
> 
> I've had it for a couple of weeks now and like others was surprised by the clean channel. Not impressed with the reverb at all...in fact it sucks, IMHO. I put a Digitech Polaris set to plate in the loop and it's instant early 80's LA. My HOF mini also yields good results. I haven't decided yet if I'm going to keep it or flip it, but for what I paid I have plenty of time to think it over for a long time. So far I am pretty darn pleased with it! Here's a pic :
> 
> View attachment 88693
> 
> 
> Loving this thread - lots of good info - and WOW!!! 530 pages! I'm on page 6 so far LOL.


Nice score brother, congratulations on a fine amp !!
Cheers 
Mitch


----------



## ledvedder

Hey guys, can I plug a 16 ohm cabinet into one of the 8 ohm outputs, and plug the internal 16 ohm speaker into the 2nd 8 ohm output?


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

ledvedder said:


> Hey guys, can I plug a 16 ohm cabinet into one of the 8 ohm outputs, and plug the internal 16 ohm speaker into the 2nd 8 ohm output?


Yes you can perfectly fine


----------



## ledvedder

I had an old issue arise last night at band rehearsal. It's something that happened a year or so back, but I thought had been resolved by swapping a new 1/4" cable for channel switching. I use an HX Effects and control the DSL channel switching via snapshots with a standard 1/4" cable. When switching from red to green, the light on the front panel would change, but the amp stayed on the red channel. This hasn't happened in over a year, and started happening about an hour into rehearsal last night. Any ideas?


----------



## Forp

Hi, i'm new here. I've been reading for 9 month now . I need your help to clear something for me. My dsl40c sounds like i want but if i play with crunch gain on 10 volume as you like (4 or 5 for me) and reverb above 6(most noticible on 10) the trail of the reverb is clipping it got distortion in it .With some of the sharp notes you can ear it well, it sonds almost like a bad connection. I would like you to try it on yours please. I suspect it may be a design flaw because this whole section is made differently in the dsl40cr and i dont want to get into endless trading of bad unit with the store for warranty, like some of you guys.


----------



## Bownse

Have you tried an external distortion or reverb pedal? I went with the Fryette SAS (tube) distortion pedal and haven't looked back.


----------



## Forp

No, actually i like the distortion on the amp and having the distortion comming froma pedal does the same to the reverb tail. I just posted toget some feedback from other user . I need to know if its normal before getting it back to the store. Here is a video i made, listen carefully its not a loud clipping , its at the very end of each reverb. My setting is crunch gain 10 volume 4 treble 0 mid 7 bass 2 presence 10 reso 1.5 reverb 10. If i crank the volume it seams to be less noticeble


----------



## Forp

The best for me would be videos answers, i want to ear your dsl40c. Please Use the setting i used for accurancy . I used a fender telecaster on bridge vol 10 tone 7 if you wanted to know.


----------



## SlapHand

My advice would be get an external reverb source…

I have 2 DSL’s… the 40c and the 40cr and love them both… but the reverb is _*not *_what made this amp a good amp!


----------



## solarburn

Fuck reverb. You wanna make it wet? Play better.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Forp said:


> The best for me would be videos answers, i want to ear your dsl40c. Please Use the setting i used for accurancy . I used a fender telecaster on bridge vol 10 tone 7 if you wanted to know.


Welcome to the forum
I only have my reverb on 5 try that and see if it’s still doing it.
Whenever I have turned the reverb up higher it mushes the tone to a point that I don’t like.
I believe your amp is fine, but if reverb is a must have for what you play, I would get a pedal.. (Marshall’s are not known for their reverb)
Cheers
Mitch


----------



## RustInPeace117

Hey all,

Long time listener, first time caller. 

I have a Hammond 1650H rated at 40W with a 6.6k primary, wondering if I can drop this in as a replacement for the 40C? I tried looking up specs for other replacements but came up short on info. I also have a Hammond 5H I'm going to install regardless. Also while I'm in there, I was thinking of doing the Headfirst amplification mods to the 40C. He has them listed out for the 100H, but the overall circuit and PCB on the 40C are identical to the 100H as far as I can tell? Can anyone verify that? I've already changed C19 to 100pF and installed a Eminence Swamp Thang speaker, but still looking to tighten things up with the bass response. These mods are designed to reduce the bass, cut higher frequencies/harmonics at a later gain stage, and lower the overall amount of gain. Generally pushes the amp towards more of a modded JCM800 territory.

Headfirst mods and how-to can be found on their website, which I cant post yet due to rules. Also, his Youtube page is super informative.

Just looking for clarification on the OT mostly. 

Thanks!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

RustInPeace117 said:


> Hey all,
> 
> Long time listener, first time caller.
> 
> I have a Hammond 1650H rated at 40W with a 6.6k primary, wondering if I can drop this in as a replacement for the 40C? I tried looking up specs for other replacements but came up short on info. I also have a Hammond 5H I'm going to install regardless. Also while I'm in there, I was thinking of doing the Headfirst amplification mods to the 40C. He has them listed out for the 100H, but the overall circuit and PCB on the 40C are identical to the 100H as far as I can tell? Can anyone verify that? I've already changed C19 to 100pF and installed a Eminence Swamp Thang speaker, but still looking to tighten things up with the bass response. These mods are designed to reduce the bass, cut higher frequencies/harmonics at a later gain stage, and lower the overall amount of gain. Generally pushes the amp towards more of a modded JCM800 territory.
> 
> Headfirst mods and how-to can be found on their website, which I cant post yet due to rules. Also, his Youtube page is super informative.
> 
> Just looking for clarification on the OT mostly.
> 
> Thanks!


Welcome to the forum 
I have no answers for you.
Be patient others will be along with their wisdom.
Cheers 
Mitch


----------



## Micky

I think I measured the OT at 4.0K after I took mine out but I could be wrong. To be sure, disconnect it, feed it with a signal and measure the output and calculate the resistance. I forget what the formula is, but just Google it and you can find it. I replaced mine with a ClassicTone, but apparently they went belly-up. Glad I got all I needed from them before that happened.

The 5H choke should tighten up the bass a lot, the Swamp Thang is an excellent choice to do that as well BTW. I have a 4X12 cab filled with them, as well as another cab full of Texas Heat's. They really are efficient, effectively doubling the output over the original speaker (Seventy 80).

There are a few slight differences between the 40W & 100W versions so be very careful. I would add the choke and then check to see how much of a difference it makes first. You already have most of the components you need to fix flubby bass...


----------



## Micky

I just looked at the DSL100 mods on the Headfirst page, and I have to say, I am not impressed. The very first photo had a resistor soldered onto the top of the board, and one leg soldered onto the board was all goobered up and looked cold. I said OK, it is only one photo, so I opened up the next photo. Again, unimpressed. To me work like that is unacceptable. I can understand when shooting in the dark and trying mods willy-nilly you might end up with something like that, but at least clean up the solder joints before you publish photos on the Internet. 

I say this with all due respect. 

What anyone chooses to do with their equipment is up to them. I just hope everyone stays safe and can make things reliable.


----------



## RustInPeace117

Yeah I noticed the quality of his soldering work was not that great overall. However, I found the approach to the mods with the aim at reducing the low end and overall gain to be desirable. 

I think that, with a 6.6k compared to a 4.0k (If your memory is correct), it would just be a slight power output drop as the R increases in that formula. Actually, with a choke, it might even stay the same. Using a choke over a resistor usually adds 5-6 volts, and that added voltage to the plates combined with slightly higher resistance might not see a difference really. 

I'm going to start with the choke and work from there. 

Thanks!


----------



## jamesband4

Hi all! New here, but was wondering if anyone knows what relay the 40C uses. Been having issues with the channel switching disabled w/ no footswitch plugged in, as well as this weird problem with the clean channel cutting into overdrive seemingly randomly when playing (already had new tubes in it, verified fx loop, tried unplugging it multiple times to reset the contact). Going to go ahead and replace the footswitch jack, front button and associated relays (I believe RL1 and RL2). Was able to find the jack/button on Studio Sound Electronics website, but Idk if the 5V relays they carry are a standard and can be used in the DSL40C or if it uses a special type of relay. For those who know/are in the middle of working on their amps, please let me know!


----------



## CSM746

I posted this over in another thread to suggest something to a newbie who was considering a head and I believe that this has been covered in the past somewhere in these thousands of replies, Sorry in advance if I violated something, but I think it may have belonged here.



I recently ordered a head cabinet for the DSL40C from Stagecraft and made by Mission Industries. This cab is excellent in materials and workmanship. I purchased the 40C in late 2012 and lifted a leg on the C19 cap sometime later. It was better than it was with the 470pf cap, but was sort of a limited difference switching from the green to the red channel. So, while I had the chassis removed I replaced the C19 with a 100pf mica cap and it is just perfect now. This spec seems to be the most suggested value for this cap replacement and I am glad I followed the advice. I may replace the C4 100pf cap with a 50pf shortly. I understand it can warm up the green channel a little. I have been lugging that beast around and got sick of the weight and was using cabs most of the time anyway. I am driving through the 8 ohm jacks two stacked Peavey 112 cabs with Austin Speaker Works KTS-60 (55hz) and KTS-70 (70hz) speakers. Classic Rock or Blues is amazing.

I did hook up my Mojotone Cab with a Guytron Big Tone 55 (8 ohm) and a Marshall cab with a Scumnico PVC and further tonal bliss. This C19 cap change really made it more useable and still got all the JCM800 like distortion and grit red Lead 1 or 2.

I included a couple pics for your viewing pleasure. I have written Mission Industries regarding the last "L" in the Marshall script logo and advised them the pre-drill template was skewed when they prepared the plywood face behind the drill cloth. I am going to try to adjust it. I ordered a new Marshall 9 inch logo from Amplified parts for this installation.

Regards,

Bob


----------



## Leonard Neemoil

CSM746 said:


> I posted this over in another thread to suggest something to a newbie who was considering a head and I believe that this has been covered in the past somewhere in these thousands of replies, Sorry in advance if I violated something, but I think it may have belonged here.
> View attachment 103536
> View attachment 103537
> 
> I recently ordered a head cabinet for the DSL40C from Stagecraft and made by Mission Industries. This cab is excellent in materials and workmanship. I purchased the 40C in late 2012 and lifted a leg on the C19 cap sometime later. It was better than it was with the 470pf cap, but was sort of a limited difference switching from the green to the red channel. So, while I had the chassis removed I replaced the C19 with a 100pf mica cap and it is just perfect now. This spec seems to be the most suggested value for this cap replacement and I am glad I followed the advice. I may replace the C4 100pf cap with a 50pf shortly. I understand it can warm up the green channel a little. I have been lugging that beast around and got sick of the weight and was using cabs most of the time anyway. I am driving through the 8 ohm jacks two stacked Peavey 112 cabs with Austin Speaker Works KTS-60 (55hz) and KTS-70 (70hz) speakers. Classic Rock or Blues is amazing.
> 
> I did hook up my Mojotone Cab with a Guytron Big Tone 55 (8 ohm) and a Marshall cab with a Scumnico PVC and further tonal bliss. This C19 cap change really made it more useable and still got all the JCM800 like distortion and grit red Lead 1 or 2.
> 
> I included a couple pics for your viewing pleasure. I have written Mission Industries regarding the last "L" in the Marshall script logo and advised them the pre-drill template was skewed when they prepared the plywood face behind the drill cloth. I am going to try to adjust it. I ordered a new Marshall 9 inch logo from Amplified parts for this installation.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Bob


Why not just re use the existing logo once you drill another hole in the correct place?


----------



## Bownse

My DSL40c project


----------



## Moony

Have you already seen that Steve made a new video with the DSL40CR?


----------



## solarburn

Moony said:


> Have you already seen that Steve made a new video with the DSL40CR?



Saw this a few days ago. His sounds taylored .

DSL40 C phone recording.


----------



## Bownse

A lot of it can be in the "sound engineering" (micing, etc.) and defintely crippled by how the phone mic clips (or doesn't) different volumes and freqs.


----------



## scozz

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Saw this a few days ago. His sounds taylored .


I was thinking the exact same thing,


----------



## Moony

I posted the clip just for information. 
You can also expect that Marshall keeps the DSL40CR for a while in their range - otherwise they probably wouldn't have Steve made this new video. 
And imho that's the more interesting point.


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Lead ultra 2 gain 3 mxr micro chorus DD3 in the loop of one my Dsl40c’s .
One of my favorite threads,, also what brought me here to the forum.

Mitch


----------



## Moony

@Mitchell Pearrow 

And again that nice V!


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

Moony said:


> @Mitchell Pearrow
> 
> And again that nice V!


Thank ya buddy


----------



## Bob Wills

Micky said:


> Here are some gut shots of my DSL40c.
> Again, if anyone has any requests for specific photos let me know.
> Here is a shot of the bias trimpots:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a shot of the bias test connector.
> Remember, when checking/setting the bias, the left trimpot adjusts the right test point...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I finally got the bias evened out at 38.xx and all seems very stable:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will post more as time permits...





Micky said:


> Here are some gut shots of my DSL40c.
> Again, if anyone has any requests for specific photos let me know.
> Here is a shot of the bias trimpots:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a shot of the bias test connector.
> Remember, when checking/setting the bias, the left trimpot adjusts the right test point...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I finally got the bias evened out at 38.xx and all seems very stable:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will post more as time permits...


 Pretty good shots .It's been a while since uv taken them . If still doing these , I'd like to see what a microcontroller looks like and where it's at . Thank u and have a good day .


----------



## CSM746

I have been on a quest to re-read this entire thread and have arrived at page 513. I converted to a Stagecraft head cab as I posted a while back. My question today is that I am experiencing a substantial volume drop when selecting the green clean channel. Crush and Lead 1 and 2 sound fine. I suspect a tube replacement may be in order, but cannot remember if the clean channel is driven by part of a certain pre-amp tube? Can ya’ll make a suggestion where to start?


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

CSM746 said:


> I have been on a quest to re-read this entire thread and have arrived at page 513. I converted to a Stagecraft head cab as I posted a while back. My question today is that I am experiencing a substantial volume drop when selecting the green clean channel. Crush and Lead 1 and 2 sound fine. I suspect a tube replacement may be in order, but cannot remember if the clean channel is driven by part of a certain pre-amp tube? Can ya’ll make a suggestion where to start?


Just start at V1 with a known good tube , and work across,, green clean without crunch engaged will always have a volume drop.. good luck .

Cheers 
Mitch


----------



## KraftyBob

Preamp tubes are actually two tubes in one. In schematics you'll see them labeled as V1A & V1B to reference each half of the first tube/valve, for example. 

The Clean/Crunch channel on the DSL40C only uses the 1st half of V1 (V1A), then it goes to V2 after that. The Ultra Gain channel uses both halves of V1 (A & B) - then goes on to V2, etc. I point this out because if V1A is bad, it would affect both the clean and crunch settings. It's certainly possible V1 is bad and it's easy enough to swap it out to check, but as @Mitchell Pearrow pointed out, there is a volume difference between clean and crunch - are you sure that's not what you're experiencing?

If you're interested I have the DSL40C schematic located here: https://1drv.ms/u/s!AvSF6F0PBMHviKAYh89NvLiIr9O8SQ?e=rWp7Ic


----------



## CSM746

Thanks much for your responses. I understood there would be a volume drop, I did not think it was this drastic. I had the volume on 4 for crunch and in my minds ear to come close to match that, I had to at least turn the volume to at least 8 or a little higher. I have 4 Tubestore Preferred Series 7025 tubes in the pre-amp and Ruby 34B-STR in the power section. The amp is biased at 35 using a couple Eurotubes “Pro One” bias tools to set it. On that note, I remember reading something about this bias tools reading several points low in this amp, I can’t find it…I think I was sober. I will start rolling tubes to see. The 7025s have been in there for a long while.


----------



## KraftyBob

CSM746 said:


> Thanks much for your responses. I understood there would be a volume drop, I did not think it was this drastic. I had the volume on 4 for crunch and in my minds ear to come close to match that, I had to at least turn the volume to at least 8 or a little higher. I have 4 Tubestore Preferred Series 7025 tubes in the pre-amp and Ruby 34B-STR in the power section. The amp is biased at 35 using a couple Eurotubes “Pro One” bias tools to set it. On that note, I remember reading something about this bias tools reading several points low in this amp, I can’t find it…I think I was sober. I will start rolling tubes to see. The 7025s have been in there for a long while.


Keep us posted regarding the tube rolling. I don't recall anything about the bias points reading low (I have this amp as well), but I have read numerous threads recommending to bias the amp on the low side otherwise it can be fizzy sounding. When I bought my amp the bias was on the hotter side at 40/41, if I recall, but I lowered to 36. Others on here bias their DSL's to around 32. To each their own. 

Good luck.


----------



## RU Experienced

KraftyBob said:


> Preamp tubes are actually two tubes in one. In schematics you'll see them labeled as V1A & V1B to reference each half of the first tube/valve, for example.
> 
> The Clean/Crunch channel on the DSL40C only uses the 1st half of V1 (V1A), then it goes to V2 after that. The Ultra Gain channel uses both halves of V1 (A & B) - then goes on to V2, etc. I point this out because if V1A is bad, it would affect both the clean and crunch settings. It's certainly possible V1 is bad and it's easy enough to swap it out to check, but as @Mitchell Pearrow pointed out, there is a volume difference between clean and crunch - are you sure that's not what you're experiencing?
> 
> If you're interested I have the DSL40C schematic located here: https://1drv.ms/u/s!AvSF6F0PBMHviKAYh89NvLiIr9O8SQ?e=rWp7Ic


I don’t use the ultra gain channel. Is it possible to have the 2 button footswitch toggle between clean/crunch using the master volumes to balance the two settings? I can do this with the 6 button switch, but would prefer to just use the 2 button since I don’t have a need for ultra gain. (This is with the 40cr btw.)


----------



## Mitchell Pearrow

RU Experienced said:


> I don’t use the ultra gain channel. Is it possible to have the 2 button footswitch toggle between clean/crunch using the master volumes to balance the two settings? I can do this with the 6 button switch, but would prefer to just use the 2 button since I don’t have a need for ultra gain. (This is with the 40cr btw.)


Not sure if you can get what you’re asking, I have the Dsl40c’s,, but I would reach out to @SkyMonkey as he has the same amp.. and could probably answer your questions


----------



## KraftyBob

RU Experienced said:


> I don’t use the ultra gain channel. Is it possible to have the 2 button footswitch toggle between clean/crunch using the master volumes to balance the two settings? I can do this with the 6 button switch, but would prefer to just use the 2 button since I don’t have a need for ultra gain. (This is with the 40cr btw.)


It looks like the 2 button foot switch only toggles between channels so you‘d need the 6 button to switch between modes. From the manual:

The channel can also be selected using the supplied 2-way footswitch. When the 2-way footswitch is connected, the front panel mode switch (Clean/Crunch or OD1/ OD2) will be active only on the selected channel.

Use the optional 6-way footswitch (PEDL- 91016) to switch between channels, modes and more – see the DSL FOOTSWITCHING section in this manual for further info.


----------



## CSM746

Tube rolling didn’t change much, but I did leave new EH 7025s in V1 & V2. While at it I decided to check bias. Before I start here I should say that at my home I am pulling typically 123 volts at the wall. I have Furman line conditioners in the small and large studio lets call them. I have three Brown Boxes so I reduce the voltage to 119 on the Marshalls and around 116 on my hand wired (brown sound) tweeds. I had previously set the bias at 35 using Eurotubes Pro Bias and they have the optional real time tube wattage built in also. But, I found them at 34 and 32. If I reduced the voltage to 116, they fell to 32 and 30. Back up to 119 and set them at 37 each. Sounds better now and if I want it down to 35 I verified that the Brown Box will allow that by reducing voltage. My plate voltage was 445/tubes drawing 16 watts and at 37 ma the bias is in the range of 67%. I also noted that I need to double the green clean to match volume with crunch, but I may play with boosting it and using different pedals.


----------



## CSM746

CSM746 said:


> Tube rolling didn’t change much, but I did leave new EH 7025s in V1 & V2. While at it I decided to check bias. Before I start here I should say that at my home I am pulling typically 123 volts at the wall. I have Furman line conditioners in the small and large studio lets call them. I have three Brown Boxes so I reduce the voltage to 119 on the Marshalls and around 116 on my hand wired (brown sound) tweeds. I had previously set the bias at 35 using Eurotubes Pro Bias and they have the optional real time tube wattage built in also. But, I found them at 34 and 32. If I reduced the voltage to 116, they fell to 32 and 30. Back up to 119 and set them at 37 each. Sounds better now and if I want it down to 35 I verified that the Brown Box will allow that by reducing voltage. My plate voltage was 445/tubes drawing 16 watts and at 37 ma the bias is in the range of 67%. I also noted that I need to double the green clean to match volume with crunch, but I may play with boosting it and using different pedals.


Adding that I just finished reading 532 pages of this thread. Seems it took over a month of just reading when I could. Learned a lot, but the DSL40 community of owners is amazing. I appreciate being a member.


----------



## Georgiatec

Anyone mixing cabs with their DSL40cr's?
Although mine's the limited edition 402 it has the same speaker outputs as the JVM, Astoria and Studio amps that lets you mix 8 & 16 ohm cabs if that's what you have. My 2 x 12 402 has two 16ohm G12C Greenbacks in it for an 8 ohm load. I've been playing it in conjunction with a 1922 cab that has two 8 ohm Greenbacks in it in series for a 16 ohm cab. The on board speakers go in one of the 2 x 8 ohm outputs and the 1922 goes in one of the 2 x 16 ohm outputs, same as I would do with my Astoria or SV20 if I wanted to mix cabs.
Amp sounds great and there are no issues with it (heat or funny smells) so I'm assuming it's the same set up as the other amps I mentioned.

Please excuse me if this has already been covered in the thread.


----------



## Bownse

Although a C instead of a CR, I did split it out into head-and-speaker cabs; sort of a mini-stack.



			Modifying A Marshall DSL40C Amp


----------



## scozz

Georgiatec said:


> Anyone mixing cabs with their DSL40cr's?
> Although mine's the limited edition 402 it has the same speaker outputs as the JVM, Astoria and Studio amps that lets you mix 8 & 16 ohm cabs if that's what you have. My 2 x 12 402 has two 16ohm G12C Greenbacks in it for an 8 ohm load. I've been playing it in conjunction with a 1922 cab that has two 8 ohm Greenbacks in it in series for a 16 ohm cab. The on board speakers go in one of the 2 x 8 ohm outputs and the 1922 goes in one of the 2 x 16 ohm outputs, same as I would do with my Astoria or SV20 if I wanted to mix cabs.
> Amp sounds great and there are no issues with it (heat or funny smells) so I'm assuming it's the same set up as the other amps I mentioned.
> 
> Please excuse me if this has already been covered in the thread.


I’ve been thinking about trying this for a while now, ever since I saw the thread Santiago posted about it being ok to mismatch speaker ohms, in Marshall amps that have the 4 ohm option. 

Right now I’m using two 1-12, 16 ohm cabs with my SC20, one with a Creamback 65, the other with a Greenback 25. 

I have an 8 ohm 12” Wgs ET65 I’d like to try in the Greenback cab, mainly because ET65s are Wgs’s version of a Creamback 65. 

Although I am a little concerned about the sensitivity rating of the Et65, (99.45) vs a Creamback (97). The greenie is 98db. 

Happy to hear you’re getting great results doing it!


----------



## CSM746

I am considering trying the EH 6ca7 power tubes. Also, the Genalex KT-77. I have read a number of threads concerning these, but few mentions of the DSL40C. Anyone here listening that can provide insight into what to expect. The 77s are way expensive. I would dislike spending over $200 with tax on a pair of tubes and not enjoying the result at all. The EH tubes can be had for under $100 with tax. I know that this can be subjective when it comes to tone, but I have used the opinions of others on this thread to make positive changes with my amp. Thanks.


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## Micky

Wow. My browser says 532 pages long.

I am surprised nobody has done anything to get this thread nuked.


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## Micky

CSM746 said:


> I am considering trying the EH 6ca7 power tubes. Also, the Genalex KT-77. I have read a number of threads concerning these, but few mentions of the DSL40C. Anyone here listening that can provide insight into what to expect. The 77s are way expensive. I would dislike spending over $200 with tax on a pair of tubes and not enjoying the result at all. The EH tubes can be had for under $100 with tax. I know that this can be subjective when it comes to tone, but I have used the opinions of others on this thread to make positive changes with my amp. Thanks.


I wired mine for 6550's. The thread ought to be around here somewhere...


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## Bownse

Micky said:


> Wow. My browser says 532 pages long.
> 
> I am surprised nobody has done anything to get this thread nuked.


Long and useful isn't a problem.


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## solarburn

CSM746 said:


> I am considering trying the EH 6ca7 power tubes. Also, the Genalex KT-77. I have read a number of threads concerning these, but few mentions of the DSL40C. Anyone here listening that can provide insight into what to expect. The 77s are way expensive. I would dislike spending over $200 with tax on a pair of tubes and not enjoying the result at all. The EH tubes can be had for under $100 with tax. I know that this can be subjective when it comes to tone, but I have used the opinions of others on this thread to make positive changes with my amp. Thanks.


my experience only in this amp:

no on the Genalex KT-77. For me was not a sonic upgrade in tone or feel. In any of my Marshalls. I spent the money and found the truth. Done.

EH 6CA7's- added articulation while soloing nice raw animalistic bottom end.lol Great power tubes. Have used in a few of my Marshallz now.

I play at volume. Only way I like this amp. It opens up when the power section comes on. Otherwise you're just hearing preamp. I still love playing this amp. Broke it out today after a long hiatus. Threw in a Veteran 30, dropped in the original 34's which hadn't seen much play time and of course a rebias at 34mv. Tits! The fuker sounds and feels great. Only reason I put a different speaker in is I'm playing musical 12's in my Iconic 412. Don't like the 412 stocker's any more. Too smooth for me.

Daem if it ain't the heaviest combo I've owned! I originally bought it for an easy grab and go jam amp. Boy was I overestimating my strength.


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## CSM746

I converted my DSL40C to a Stagecraft cab head a while back....sure saves the back Solarburn. I ordered a set of 6CA7 tubes from the Tubestore and installed them. The tubes were marked as matched at "60". The tube installed on the right side (looking at the back) glowed much brighter than the left when the amp was fired up. I have two Eurotubes Bias Pro probes which also show wattage so this is somewhat easy. It was at 62 mA and using the full swing on the trim pot I could get it down to 44. The left tube started out in the 33 mA range and easily went to 44. The wall voltage here is between 123 and 125 depending on the day. Using a Brown Box I reduced it to 119 before installing these tubes. I will leave out some detail but the only way I could get these tubes down to 38 was to reduce the voltage to 116. The plate voltage at 119 was 442 and at 116 was 434.

I wrote Jon at the Tubestore who was helpful and responded with "This is not uncommon with 6CA7 tubes, especially from EHX. Although compatible with EL34 circuits they typically need more bias voltage and not all EL34 amp builders have enough in the stock bias circuit. Other EL34 tubes you would have from us will likely be rated much lower and therefore normally bias without circuit mods required, just rebiasing. The simple fix here is to just change the bias resistor to squeeze out a few more volts, allowing you to get the bias in the range you prefer. Looking at the schematic, I'd start by reducing the dropping resistor R106 to 10K or something and compare it to the stock bias output. You could change resistors R92,93 and R97, R98, but then you're doing twice as many and R106 might get it solved with less changes."

Being concerned about the possibility of returning to EL34 tubes after the dropping resistor mod and after reading up on this I asked about tubes matched at "50". The response was that these tubes would have less natural current draw and therefore probably bias up nicely at 38 mA where I wanted them. This is at about 68% dissipation. I ordered them up and installing them again with the same relative plate voltage the tubes dialed in with perfect 38 bias and in the middle range of the trim pots. So, lesson to self and to share with ya'll, the matching of tubes plays a part here. Now I have a set of 6CA7 tubes that probably would work with higher plate voltage, but of no use now other than looking nice in the drawer.

The first set I felt sounded full and good to my ear. An improvement over EL34B STR I feel. But, if they drifted, I had nothing left of the trim pot in the future. I have only played the latest set of tubes for about 15 minutes, but they sound great. I will continue to play for a few days with different speaker cabs and flesh this out in terms of what impact I feel the shift to using 6CA7 tubes make.


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## solarburn

CSM746 said:


> I converted my DSL40C to a Stagecraft cab head a while back....sure saves the back Solarburn. I ordered a set of 6CA7 tubes from the Tubestore and installed them. The tubes were marked as matched at "60". The tube installed on the right side (looking at the back) glowed much brighter than the left when the amp was fired up. I have two Eurotubes Bias Pro probes which also show wattage so this is somewhat easy. It was at 62 mA and using the full swing on the trim pot I could get it down to 44. The left tube started out in the 33 mA range and easily went to 44. The wall voltage here is between 123 and 125 depending on the day. Using a Brown Box I reduced it to 119 before installing these tubes. I will leave out some detail but the only way I could get these tubes down to 38 was to reduce the voltage to 116. The plate voltage at 119 was 442 and at 116 was 434.
> 
> I wrote Jon at the Tubestore who was helpful and responded with "This is not uncommon with 6CA7 tubes, especially from EHX. Although compatible with EL34 circuits they typically need more bias voltage and not all EL34 amp builders have enough in the stock bias circuit. Other EL34 tubes you would have from us will likely be rated much lower and therefore normally bias without circuit mods required, just rebiasing. The simple fix here is to just change the bias resistor to squeeze out a few more volts, allowing you to get the bias in the range you prefer. Looking at the schematic, I'd start by reducing the dropping resistor R106 to 10K or something and compare it to the stock bias output. You could change resistors R92,93 and R97, R98, but then you're doing twice as many and R106 might get it solved with less changes."
> 
> Being concerned about the possibility of returning to EL34 tubes atter the dropping resistor mod and after reading up on this I asked about tubes matched at "50". The response was that these tubes would have less natural current draw and therefore probably bias up nicely at 38 mA where I wanted them. This is at about 68% dissipation. I ordered them up and installing them again with the same relative plate voltage the tubes dialed in with perfect 38 bias and in the middle range of the trim pots. So, lesson to self and to share with ya'll, the matching of tubes plays a part here. Now I have a set of 6CA7 tubes that probably would work with higher plate voltage, but of no use now other than looking nice in the drawer.
> 
> The first set I felt sounded full and good to my ear. An improvement over EL34B STR I feel. But, if they drifted, I had nothing left of the trim pot in the future. I have only played the latest set of tubes for about 15 minutes, but they sound great. I will continue to play for a few days with different speaker cabs and flesh this out in terms of what impact I feel the shift to using 6CA7 tubes make.


So far with both EH & JJ 6CA7'S I've been able to bias at 34mv with room to spare. That's running 120V at wall and PV around 450'ish. The Origin 50 at 33mv had a PV of 444V. I have biased to 70% dissipation with good results. Depends on the tubes. My wall voltage seems to stay at 120V every time I meter it.

I've had EL34's bias too hot where I couldn't get them under 40mv. It does matter from tube to tube set. Had drift issues with some too. If I remember right it happened to a pair of EH 6CA7'S years ago. The EH's have been solid otherwise since. No repeats with them but it can happen to any tube/set.

Looks like you have a solid idea of what you need and how to run voltage changes. I use a variac from time to time to decrease wall flow.


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## end user

I know I am just beating a dead horse but 533 pages? Well time for a refresher I guess. There is a happy medium with this amp between the 2 channels. I am achieving it easily right now and below are my settings. BTW this is at band volume and in a treated 20x20 room. Amp is on a angled stand pointed at my head. Roughly seeing 96-98db at 5ft or so. 

Classic Gain
Crunch button: in
Gain: 12 'oclock
Volume: 10:30'ish

Ultra Gain
Lead 1 (button out)
Gain: 10:30'ish

EQ's and Reverbs

Treble: 8 o'clock
Mid: dimed
Bass: 11 o'clock
Tone shift: Off (button out)
Presence: 10 o'clock
Resonance: 10 o'clock
Both Reverbs at 11 o'clock

With these settings Classic gain easily functions for clean and low-mid gains and Ultra Channel can be used either for higher gains and/or soloing. 

I am a rock player mostly so adjust gains as need for heavier stuff. My amp is stock except for the new Mullard power tubes I just installed and biased the amp at 38.5 on both sides.


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## solarburn

bobpick68 said:


> I know I am just beating a dead horse but 533 pages? Well time for a refresher I guess. There is a happy medium with this amp between the 2 channels. I am achieving it easily right now and below are my settings. BTW this is at band volume and in a treated 20x20 room. Amp is on a angled stand pointed at my head. Roughly seeing 96-98db at 5ft or so.
> 
> Classic Gain
> Crunch button: in
> Gain: 12 'oclock
> Volume: 10:30'ish
> 
> Ultra Gain
> Lead 1 (button out)
> Gain: 10:30'ish
> 
> EQ's and Reverbs
> 
> Treble: 8 o'clock
> Mid: dimed
> Bass: 11 o'clock
> Tone shift: Off (button out)
> Presence: 10 o'clock
> Resonance: 10 o'clock
> Both Reverbs at 11 o'clock
> 
> With these settings Classic gain easily functions for clean and low-mid gains and Ultra Channel can be used either for higher gains and/or soloing.
> 
> I am a rock player mostly so adjust gains as need for heavier stuff. My amp is stock except for the new Mullard power tubes I just installed and biased the amp at 38.5 on both sides.


Cool share on the settings and bias number. You said your amp is stock(excluding PT's)so it still has the 70/80 speaker? Curious.

I'm gonna play with a couple speaker changes while I'm off work(vacation). A EV12L BL and V30. Just to see. I really want to put in a 12 H Anniversary even though it's rated at 30 watts. I'm speculating a good result other than a blown speaker. That's on hold until I can get another one anyways.

I'll give your settings a try while I'm playing with the amp.


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## Screamin Willie

solarburn said:


> Cool share on the settings and bias number. You said your amp is stock(excluding PT's)so it still has the 70/80 speaker? Curious.
> 
> I'm gonna play with a couple speaker changes while I'm off work(vacation). A EV12L BL and V30. Just to see. I really want to put in a 12 H Anniversary even though it's rated at 30 watts. I'm speculating a good result other than a blown speaker. That's on hold until I can get another one anyways.
> 
> I'll give your settings a try while I'm playing with the amp.



I love a V30, but I must say the V-Type that came stock in my DSL40CR is a great speaker. Really liking that one also.


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## solarburn

Screamin Willie said:


> I love a V30, but I must say the V-Type that came stock in my DSL40CR is a great speaker. Really liking that one also.


I've tried that one too. Not bad. I actually don't mind the stock 70/80 when broken in that came in mine.

Really curious how the Electrovoice will translate the classic to Lead channels. Wouldn't be crazy about the weight gain added to an already heavy combo.


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## end user

solarburn said:


> You said your amp is stock(excluding PT's)so it still has the 70/80 speaker?



Yep. I was all ready to start experimenting with some speakers I have laying around like V30, ET65, and an Egnater Elite 50 (supposed to be a 50w Greenback) but I am liking this so much "as is" I dont want to mess with it. I am doing my first gig with it tonight. I figure that's the real test and if I don't like how it sounds at the gig, I will start swapping in some different speakers starting with the V30.


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## solarburn

bobpick68 said:


> Yep. I was all ready to start experimenting with some speakers I have laying around like V30, ET65, and an Egnater Elite 50 (supposed to be a 50w Greenback) but I am liking this so much "as is" I dont want to mess with it. I am doing my first gig with it tonight. I figure that's the real test and if I don't like how it sounds at the gig, I will start swapping in some different speakers starting with the V30.


Yah I like the 70/80 in mine. Others really don't however my guitars/pups work good with it and like you I play rock and hard rock mostly. Look forward to what you find playing out live.  

Just got done doing the V30 and EV12L. I have the Electrovoice in a separate oversized 112 cab. So V30 in DSL was good. I just did one setting on the Red channel on both. Hard rock tone. Clean up easily had.

Both had their pros/cons. Neither made me go "Oh that's nice it's going in now" but they sound/felt good. So did my Veteran 30 and Eminence GB128. Solid performers.

So if my speculation is accurate the 12H 30 Anni just might excite my rock to hard rock desires most. Don't have one here but will soon.


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## end user

solarburn said:


> I've tried that one too. Not bad. I actually don't mind the stock 70/80 when broken in that came in mine.



One thing I noticed at my gig yesterday was how the 70/80 really needs to be pushed to sound good. It's not just the amp, it's the combination of the amp and speaker being less efficient that gets you to that sweet spot. It makes sense because the DSL40c, unless it's completely cranked doesn't really do power tube breakup and it sounds sweet long before it gets cranked, but does need to be loud. 

That points to the speaker. So after all I think I will swap in some different ones to see if I can get to that sweet spot earlier on the volume dial because most venues out here I won't be able to get there with the way the amp is right now. Needs to be very loud and thats not tolerated around here unfortunately.


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## solarburn

bobpick68 said:


> One thing I noticed at my gig yesterday was how the 70/80 really needs to be pushed to sound good. It's not just the amp, it's the combination of the amp and speaker being less efficient that gets you to that sweet spot. It makes sense because the DSL40c, unless it's completely cranked doesn't really do power tube breakup and it sounds sweet long before it gets cranked, but does need to be loud.
> 
> That points to the speaker. So after all I think I will swap in some different ones to see if I can get to that sweet spot earlier on the volume dial because most venues out here I won't be able to get there with the way the amp is right now. Needs to be very loud and thats not tolerated around here unfortunately.


Yah and I usually keep volume right around noon on mine. Maybe others are finding it raspy at lower volumes. I do like the amp more when enough power section is introduced. Playing live can really limit that setting though for sure.

I jammed on the V30 and Electrovoice again. Think I prefer the V30 for the mids and the Electrovoice for the bottom end. So I could go either or otherwise with them. Backing off on guitar volume/tone was great for both. Cool in betweens. The V30 had a bit more of the snap and sting of upper kerrang though the Electrovoice has some snap too. Think the V30 would be a great cut through the mix speaker in this amp.

Anywho thanks for say'n about how the 70/80 did and look forward to what you find on some others.


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## Leonard Neemoil

solarburn said:


> Yah and I usually keep volume right around noon on mine. Maybe others are finding it raspy at lower volumes. I do like the amp more when enough power section is introduced. Playing live can really limit that setting though for sure.
> 
> I jammed on the V30 and Electrovoice again. Think I prefer the V30 for the mids and the Electrovoice for the bottom end. So I could go either or otherwise with them. Backing off on guitar volume/tone was great for both. Cool in betweens. The V30 had a bit more of the snap and sting of upper kerrang though the Electrovoice has some snap too. Think the V30 would be a great cut through the mix speaker in this amp.
> 
> Anywho thanks for say'n about how the 70/80 did and look forward to what you find on some others.


You jammed the amp with a v30 in the open back combo, or was it an extension cab? Thanks.


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## solarburn

Leonard Neemoil said:


> You jammed the amp with a v30 in the open back combo, or was it an extension cab? Thanks.


Yes. At volume too(noon). The Electrovoice is in a separate 112 that is semi open back although I had it up against a wall to get more forward punch. Actually had both in the same spot to limit rearward bleed.


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## Leonard Neemoil

solarburn said:


> Yes. At volume too(noon). The Electrovoice is in a separate 112 that is semi open back although I had it up against a wall to get more forward punch. Actually had both in the same spot to limit rearward bleed.


Yes what?  There are 2 parts to my question. I think I understand your reply, just trying to clarify. Sorry, thanks.


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## solarburn

Reason I like so much volume is I enjoy the thump and fullness of notes when I back off guitar volume/tone. Really gets me off.

I can play quieter but I miss the effect of the power section doing it's magic. I'm not trying to get power tube break up. Just a rounder thumpier snappier Marshall response.lol


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## solarburn

Leonard Neemoil said:


> Yes what?  There are 2 parts to my question. I think I understand your reply, just trying to clarify. Sorry, thanks.


Yes V30 in amp combo, Electrovoice in separate cab. I was being quick. Sorry about the confusion.


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## Leonard Neemoil

solarburn said:


> Yes V30 in amp combo, Electrovoice in separate cab. I was being quick. Sorry about the confusion.


No problem at all. Thanks for taking the time. This makes me want to try one of my v30s in the combo even more. I know it probably won't sound the same as the closed back cab it's in now but I don't really like the seventy-80. I just can't do much physically anymore, otherwise I would've just swapped the v30 in long ago. Your testimony is giving me some hope that it won't be for nothing.

Thanks again.

Cheers!


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## solarburn

Leonard Neemoil said:


> No problem at all. Thanks for taking the time. This makes me want to try one of my v30s in the combo even more. I know it probably won't sound the same as the closed back cab it's in now but I don't really like the seventy-80. I just can't do much physically anymore, otherwise I would've just swapped the v30 in long ago. Your testimony is giving me some hope that it won't be for nothing.
> 
> Thanks again.
> 
> Cheers!


Yah speaker changes wipe me out. I just changed out 2 V30's for 12H Annis in my Orange 412 and it did a number on me. Then I had placed the Annis on top and found I prefer them on the bottom of the cab. I needed the V30's upper kerang on top for the mix to suit me. I flipped the cab over to get it and I was right. However i have an upside down Orange logo now. Soon I'll do the actual moving of the speakers.

Actually been changing speakers over the last 2 months in a few different cabs. It's a work out. Unpleasant really.

I prefer the clarity and upper mids of the V30 over the 70/80 for sure. Sounds great clean too.


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## Micky

bobpick68 said:


> I know I am just beating a dead horse but 533 pages? Well time for a refresher I guess.


You think it is bad reading that many pages? Try writing it.


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## solarburn

Micky said:


> You think it is bad reading that many pages? Try writing it.


All these years later I still tap in to it for info. Fucking DSL40 Encyclopedia Britannica with expanding volumes.


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## end user

solarburn said:


> Think the V30 would be a great cut through the mix speaker in this amp.


Yeah I think I am swapping in a V30 today when I get a chance. When I did that gig the highest I could get was 8'oclock on the dial for volume. In other words 1. I only had the gain knob at noon.


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## Micky

solarburn said:


> All these years later I still tap in to it for info. Fucking DSL40 Encyclopedia Britannica with expanding volumes.


I should have tried harder to get a working index. Problem is, it is a moving target with things moving at different rates. People leave, and take their photo permissions with them and make the photos unavailable. Also with server changes, post references change, creating dead links and such.

The one thing the software does well is pick up where you left off, so as long as you don't jump around too much it pretty much follows where you left off. Best part is, people like you remain to add content and keep this amp alive. I still get questions from all over the world about this amp, referencing this thread.

There is a lot of great content here as well as ideas about how to dial this amp in for certain tones. Lots of great info abour speakers and pedals as well, so this thread has this amp covered from input to output.


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## Leonard Neemoil

solarburn said:


> Yah speaker changes wipe me out. I just changed out 2 V30's for 12H Annis in my Orange 412 and it did a number on me. Then I had placed the Annis on top and found I prefer them on the bottom of the cab. I needed the V30's upper kerang on top for the mix to suit me. I flipped the cab over to get it and I was right. However i have an upside down Orange logo now. Soon I'll do the actual moving of the speakers.
> 
> Actually been changing speakers over the last 2 months in a few different cabs. It's a work out. Unpleasant really.
> 
> I prefer the clarity and upper mids of the V30 over the 70/80 for sure. Sounds great clean too.


Yeah, it used to seem effortless. Not anymore.

Just unscrew the Orange logo and put it back on right side up.


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## Mitchell Pearrow

Micky said:


> I should have tried harder to get a working index. Problem is, it is a moving target with things moving at different rates. People leave, and take their photo permissions with them and make the photos unavailable. Also with server changes, post references change, creating dead links and such.
> 
> The one thing the software does well is pick up where you left off, so as long as you don't jump around too much it pretty much follows where you left off. Best part is, people like you remain to add content and keep this amp alive. I still get questions from all over the world about this amp, referencing this thread.
> 
> There is a lot of great content here as well as ideas about how to dial this amp in for certain tones. Lots of great info abour speakers and pedals as well, so this thread has this amp covered from input to output.


Yea I still love this thread, it was what brought me here to begin with. And at that time it only had 273 pages , but by the time I got that far it was three hundred and something..

Thanks


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## Mitchell Pearrow

For old times sake 
Thanks for listening 

Mitch


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## solarburn

I'm really liking the V30 with this amp. I thought it would be too toppy but keep presence and treble in check and you're good to go. Love soloing the V30. Gives me that stringy Marshall thing I like for what I play.


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## Bownse

The premeinent thread on the DSL40C... "In the world!" - J. Clarkson


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## Obi Plexi-nobi

Scored me another DSL40C in excellent condition for $350. My third one. Those things sound GREAT. Also, picked up a 2016 Charvel (Mexico) Pro-Mod San Dimas in off- white, used for roughly half-price. THANKS, SANTA! (me)


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## solarburn

Obi Plexi-nobi said:


> Scored me another DSL40C in excellent condition for $350. My third one. Those things sound GREAT. Also, picked up a 2016 Charvel (Mexico) Pro-Mod San Dimas in off- white, used for roughly half-price. THANKS, SANTA! (me)
> 
> View attachment 121538


That there makes an epic score. Enjoy!


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## Moony

Obi Plexi-nobi said:


> Scored me another DSL40C in excellent condition for $350. My third one.



I guess now you need a fourth one for the ultimate surround sound!


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## SkyMonkey

Mitchell Pearrow said:


> Yea I still love this thread, it was what brought me here to begin with. And at that time it only had 273 pages , but by the time I got that far it was three hundred and something..


LOL

You do realise @Mitchell Pearrow that at least 10% of this thread is *YOU* banging out the heavy riffage in your garage!


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## Mitchell Pearrow

SkyMonkey said:


> LOL
> 
> You do realise @Mitchell Pearrow that at least 10% of this thread is *YOU* banging out the heavy riffage in your garage!


I did not realize that.. lol


----------

