# Plexi shootout!



## pleximaster

http://youtu.be/dSqGwEgEUgg

Amp nr: 1, year: 1966, 100 watt Super P.A. model 1968 (remark; bridged channels, KT66)
Amp nr: 2, year: 1967, 100 watt Super Bass, model 1992 (remark; Black Flag logo, EL34)
Amp nr: 3, (remark; not used)
Amp nr: 4, year: 2005, 100 watt Super Lead reissue, model 1959HW (remark; EL34)
Amp nr. 5, year: 1967, 100 watt Super Bass, model 1992 (remark; ex Free, EL 34)
Amp nr. 6, year 1977, 100 watt Super Bass, model 1992 (remark; metal panel EL34)
Amp nr 7, year 1967, 50 watt Lead, model 1987 (remark; EL34 and tube rectifier)
Amp nr 8, year 1967, 50 Tremolo, model 1987T (remark; EL34 solid state rectifier)
Amp nr 9, (remark; not used)
Amp nr 10, year 1971, 100 watt Super Lead, model 1959 (remark; metal panel, EL34)
Amp nr 11, year 1968, 100 watt Super P.A, model 1968 (remark; bridged channels, EL34)
Amp nr 12, year 1969, 100 watt Super Lead, model 1959 (remark; EL34)
Amp nr 13, year 1965, 30 watt JTM45 MKII, model 1987 (remark; block end alu chassis,tube rectifier KT66)
Amp nr 14, year 1968, 50 watt Lead, model 1987 (remark; EL34 solid state rectifier)
Amp nr 15, year 1969, 100 watt Super Lead, model 1959 (remark; EL34)
Amp nr 16, year 1968, 100 watt Super Lead, model 1959 (remark; EL34 12000 series)
Amp nr 17, year 1969, 100 watt Super Lead Tremolo, model 1959T (remark 5881)


plexi


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## george76

Jaw dropping!



Cant wait for the rest. Love the pinstripe cabs too


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## TAZIN

I don't know if it was the recording or what but I liked the three dimensional quality of the two '69 Super Leads.


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## Blacque Jacque

Great shootout guys.

One thing that really struck me.... I was listening on cans while doing something else, not watching. A few minutes in I thought, " Wow, that amp is noisy (hum etc.) & harsh sounding. After a while I heard the same thing again......


It was the 2005 Handwired. 


All of the amps had varying characters, all sounded great, although some sounded better to me / gave more of a sound I prefer.

Anyway, a fantastic selection of amps Pleximaster, and some tasty licks Johan.


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## keennay




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## tweedman8758

I'm kinda partial to the '71 Super Lead myself.


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## metromutt

TAZIN said:


> I don't know if it was the recording or what but I liked the three dimensional quality of the two '69 Super Leads.



Me too, thought the 71sl was nice too but I was dissapointed in the 68 12series that's not too many digits off the infamous 12301


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## Blokkadeleider

Great. That allows me the second like 
Anyway. Superb!


Gr,

Gerrit.


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## TAZIN

metromutt said:


> Me too, thought the 71sl was nice too but I was dissapointed in the 68 12series that's not too many digits off the infamous 12301


 
Yeah, the '71 Super Lead was nice....Very similiar to the two '69 SL's but with a tad bit more clarity/cut. The '68 Super Lead sounded a bit lifeless for some reason.


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## jack daniels

TAZIN said:


> Yeah, the '71 Super Lead was nice....Very similiar to the two '69 SL's but with a tad bit more clarity/cut. *The '68 Super Lead sounded a bit lifeless for some reason.*



MAYBE they clipped the bright cap?


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## soundboy57

Thanks for doing that. Awesome. Beyond words. 
I too thought the 2005 suffered compared to all the others. Harsh, noisy, etc.
That '67 Super Bass Kossoff amp was just insane sounding.
So were the 67-68 50 watters.
Killer video


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## Joshabr1

67s all the way. 71 superlead was nice to


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## thunderkyss

I'd kill to be able to sit in that room with my Les Paul & a guitar cable.


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## dptone5

Very impressive indeed!!


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## BlackLabel

A) this is really awesome. Thanks for this. 

B) they all sound pretty great, I wouldn't kick any of those amps out of bed. 

C) the amp that stood out as the worst was the 2005 hw

D) the three 50-watters stood out as sounding great

E) my favorite was probably the '71. It has something special the other amps didn't. I may be partial tho - it sounded really similar to my '71 1959T


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## Joshabr1

The blag flag I really dig. The free amp is awesome to. Damn how bad it makes the HW amp stand out as sterile and stiff as a board.


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## george76

Lets not slate any of the amps based on 1 video like this. This is 1 recording scenario out of a million different variables for each amp.

What works for one amp might not work for another. Mic placement, speaker cabinet, amp settings etc. There are so many things that could potentially be adjusted to make the "bad" amp sound differently, or to correct things you dont like about the tone.


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## keennay

george76 said:


> Lets not slate any of the amps based on 1 video like this. This is 1 recording scenario out of a million different variables for each amp.
> 
> What works for one amp might not work for another. Mic placement, speaker cabinet, amp settings etc. There are so many things that could potentially be adjusted to make the "bad" amp sound differently.



Exactly. I'm more interested in reading which preamp & power tubes were used in all 17 amps.

Great video & thanks for sharing! I always look forward to Johan's clips.


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## Blacque Jacque

george76 said:


> Lets not slate any of the amps based on 1 video like this. This is 1 recording scenario out of a million different variables for each amp.
> 
> What works for one amp might not work for another. Mic placement, speaker cabinet, amp settings etc. There are so many things that could potentially be adjusted to make the "bad" amp sound differently, or to correct things you dont like about the tone.




Indeed, although I don't believe the amount of noise & hum from the 2005HW would be overly affected by such changes.

My comment was based purely upon the conditions presented in the test, which I'm sure were as consistent as Johan & Pleximaster could possibly make them, and under those conditions, only the 2005 stood out as being audibly inferior to me.

I have no particular bias toward or against original or new amps. If anything I'd probably go for a new amp as the condition of it's components can, on paper at least, be replied upon.


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## rjohns1

I really enjoyed this. Having never played through one, hearing how all of the amps sounded, I was able to figure out how to dial in the plexi model in my GSP1101 closer. It at least has the flavor and eq is similar to his sounds. Someday I hope to be able to buy one, as it is my dream amp. Or at least build one. 
I agree that the reissue just didn't have the magic. I liked them all though. He has a video on celestion speaker where he demos them all as well. This guy is a great reviewer.


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## stilllifer

Amazing Johan!!! The 67-68 50 watters and that Kossoff were incredible to my ears!!!


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## London John

george76 said:


> Lets not slate any of the amps based on 1 video like this. This is 1 recording scenario out of a million different variables for each amp.



Agreed, it's hard enough to get a vintage Marshall to sound the same two days in a row.


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## FutureProf88

I've watched this video about 5 times now.


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## dreyn77

What a suprising video.  

The bass amps aren't far off guitar amps. 
the JTM seemed to hold itself up to the bigger amps. 
the HW was the brightest and clearest. a latest gen interpretation I guess. 
It confirmed what Jake E Lee had said about these amps tones as well. 
It confirms the VH perspective towards these amps. 

Mr Segeborn is in fine form once again  doesn't disappoint!

It's staggering to think you have this level of commitment towards these amps. It's a living, working, museum. 
We now have a bench mark sound /s that we can all test our amps and see how they compare. 

I liked the bright nasty one. I've forgotten the year. the 67 seemed kinda nasty too but not quite as much as the other model. 

the 68's were super distinctive. I guess VH lucked into being at the right time and location to scoreing his amp back then. 

Yeah you could hear how the 50 watters were a fair bit different in sound. 

THe chandlier got rocken there for a while


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## Joshabr1

As amazing as this is. I would have loved to have heard the natural amps cranked without attenuation. I can hear compression on the 100 watters that I don't hear in mine at all. Of course I live in the boondocks and don't mind tinnitus. All things being equal such as tubes and such ill have to say the more I listen the more I like all of them.


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## metromutt

fantastic collection of amps and cabs and thanks for sharing the porn.


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## Dogs of Doom

george76 said:


> Lets not slate any of the amps based on 1 video like this. This is 1 recording scenario out of a million different variables for each amp.
> 
> What works for one amp might not work for another. Mic placement, speaker cabinet, amp settings etc. There are so many things that could potentially be adjusted to make the "bad" amp sound differently, or to correct things you dont like about the tone.


In reality, there's no 100% fair way to compare all these heads. But, I do think that Johan & Plexi tried to be as fair as they possibly could in a 1 session shootout.

I think at least, you can get a feel for the differences between all the circuits. If you tried hard to make them all sound best to you, then you really wouldn't be making a fair comparison. 

I asked about the process in another forum & it was settled on 1 cabinet mic'd & neither cab, nor mic's were moved. All heads were plugged in to the Hotplate & the 50watters were attenuated at -8 & the 100 watters at -12. 

Johan says he's going to do more videos on this shootout, giving more attention to each amp. Between this & the rest, you should be able to get a good idea of what's going on...

I like them all. The one that does come across as the worst, is definitely the 2005HW RI. You would have thought, that, w/ newer technology, there would be a better handle on the ground buzz, but, the buzz is loud on that one & the amp sounds a bit thinner than the rest...


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## metromutt

Edited.


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## FutureProf88

Ok now, guys. Let's not go criticizing unless you want to go out and get 15 vintage Marshalls and do a better clip.

They followed the key rule for an experiment: replication. Same cab, attenuator and mic placement. That would properly show the differences between the amps, all else being equal. 

For what it's worth, they ALL sounded great and my favorite was the JTM45/100!


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## johnfv

Very cool just to see and hear so many classic amps in one place!  

I know how challenging it can be to minimize the variables in comparisons like this. I'm certainly not trying to take away from the impressive video... that said, I hear ambience differences on some of the amps and it makes me curious about what caused it. It looks (and sounds like) there are both close and far mics being used. While most of it sounds pretty consistent, on some amps it sounds to me like there is more room ambience (as if there was less close mic in the mix somehow). It is most noticeable on the more choppy parts (for example around 5:15). The 1965 JTM45 and 1968 Super Lead consistently sound more distant to me, in contrast the '67 Black Flag sounds like more close mic (and GREAT). It could just be the natural level and tone differences of the amps - I wasn't there so won't speculate further. I'd be curious to see any further comments about the audio from the guys that were there 

Again, a truly awesome piece of work here, what an impressive collection of amps!


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## Tone Slinger

I liked these best, in this order:

1) 1977 Super Bass
2) 2005 Super Lead Hand wired reissue
3) 1971 Super Lead

This was a very enjoyable listening experience, Thank You SO MUCH for doing this


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## FutureProf88

Tone Slinger said:


> I liked these best, in this order:
> 
> 1) 1977 Super Bass
> 2) 2005 Super Lead Hand wired reissue
> 3) 1971 Super Lead
> 
> This was a very enjoyable listening experience, Thank You SO MUCH for doing this



I saw a lot of people dissing on the 2005 and I have to say, while it wasn't my favorite of the bunch I was really impressed by how close to the originals it sounded! I had wanted to hear a comparison of a reissue vs an original for a while and I'm glad someone did it! Marshall did a really good job with their recreation.


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## JohanSegeborn

Thanks for all the kind words guys!


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## JohanSegeborn

I'm to blame for that I'm afraid. Pleximaster set the EQ for all the other amps and secured that there was no hum. I gave it too much treble and it usually doesn't hum like that. Still I think it sounded very cool. That one cuts through any given mix ;-)

Cheers



Joshabr1 said:


> The blag flag I really dig. The free amp is awesome to. Damn how bad it makes the HW amp stand out as sterile and stiff as a board.


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## Joshabr1

Well Johan I don't think it was your fault at all. Great presentation. I think it would be awesome if u guys could get together again and test all the amps cranked without the attenuation. I think that would let the differences between the circuits really shine


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## 66SuperTremolo

Great job as always Johan 

For mine...... JTM-45 Any day.... Love KT-66 / GZ-34 Classic Rock n Blues

only surpassed by my '66 SuperTrem BB (Head) Model.  

The Koss sounded Phat n Juicy..... some changed Trannies didn't hurt the tone any.

The Black Flag was Great like BFs are !!!


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## dreyn77

I thought the 'black flag' was pretty ordinary.


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## neikeel

Joshabr1 said:


> Well Johan I don't think it was your fault at all. Great presentation. I think it would be awesome if u guys could get together again and test all the amps cranked without the attenuation. I think that would let the differences between the circuits really shine


 
I agree!

Look forwards to the weekly vids of each amp without the attenuator.


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## neikeel

dreyn77 said:


> I thought the 'black flag' was pretty ordinary.


 
This is a video of a Black Flag JTM50 that demonstrates the dynamic range and tone of these amps, IMO of course

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tvY57FpRY0


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## Joshabr1

dreyn77 said:


> I thought the 'black flag' was pretty ordinary.



About as ordinary as you are


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## Blokkadeleider

dreyn77 said:


> I thought the 'black flag' was pretty ordinary.



LOL!
Am I supposed to bite now. 


Gr,

Gerrit.

*Yes, it sounds like an ordinary Black Flag, you're absolutely on the mark there


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## dreyn77

Oh yes! back to personal attacks! 
brilliant! your brain is making them volts.  


other amps in the test were sounding different to the other models. the black flag was a bit of each other models but nothing special/unique. it seems less than the others as far as sound uniqueness. 
Kinda like the pizza with the lot but factory/cheap ingredience was used in the making of it. if you get my point. 

A bit of everything but less than. 


680 no comments but you see a 'something different' and you attack it!  oh man, cave people are around! warning! watchout people!


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## Joshabr1

No attack from me dreyn. Your definately not ordinary. That don't have to be a bad thing


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## Harlequin tusk

Thanks very much Johan!

That was an incredible video you made. Truly awesome in every way. Great playing and great sounds. Musta been heaven to be around em all!!!!!

Thanks for sharing. Bookmarked your page big time!


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## 66SuperTremolo

dreyn77 said:


> I thought the 'black flag' was pretty ordinary.


 
Well not to those who know KILLER TONE when they hear it !  Black Flags.....as short lived as they were, are Absolutely Stunning Tone Generators par excellence. Nuff said !


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## delstele

Thanks for the vid as the drool ran down my face I loved the JTM45... I want one!


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## Tone Slinger

66SuperTremolo said:


> Well not to those who know KILLER TONE when they hear it !  Black Flags.....as short lived as they were, are Absolutely Stunning Tone Generators par excellence. Nuff said !



I get upset/frustrated too when I hear someone say something that I completely dissagree with, however, not EVERYONE likes chocolate  Alot of those plexi era amps are overly tubby/flubby. My personal preference for Marshall tone is more crunch than sag. Thats why I liked the '77, '71 and the reissue. But then again, I like KISS and Thin Lizzy more than the Blues Breakers and Cream. Tone and sound is subjective.


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## buddy7168

My favorites were the beat up looking '69 super lead and the '71 super lead. I think the '77 super bass deserves an honorable mention as well.


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## Bloodrock

They all gave me wood. Shwing! I'll take any of them.


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## The Ozzk

That video is so hawt that it should be moved to the "Afterhours"


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## JohanSegeborn

Hi Guys!

Here's the first feature clip, you know we're gonna post one every Saturday: 1967 Super Bass Ex Paul Kossoff.

We really want you to criticize the format we've chosen for presenting each amp, as well as possible errors, so we can optimize it until the next amp clip (which will be the '67 JTM Black Flag  ). So don't hold back.

Cheers!
Johan and Plexi

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sytYyD_R5zs&list=UUyaStghQb7_e51PgH8bUkzg]Marshall 1967 Plexi Super Bass Owned by Paul Kossoff - Demo and Circuit Survey - YouTube[/ame]


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## neikeel

I like it! Johan shows its range well.

Interesting to see the serial (I have SL/10403).

Why is there a bright cap on Channel 2? What value did you go for?


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## JohanSegeborn

Thanks! And I agree, it's strange why the bright cap is placed on the bass channel. Let's wait to hear what Pleximaster has to say about it. 

Cheers



neikeel said:


> I like it! Johan shows its range well.
> 
> Interesting to see the serial (I have SL/10403).
> 
> Why is there a bright cap on Channel 2? What value did you go for?


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## dreyn77

maybe cause its a les paul professional/personal pickup types channel. and therefore entitled to have a bright cap cause it works in the same way as the ordinary les paul pickups type channel (high input)


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## Joshabr1

What Dreyn?????? What does that really mean? I want to know personally


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## dash8311

Great video!

Amp 9 (not played) YJM100?


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## dreyn77

WOW! that is an extremely informative video johan  very impressive. 

what a sound! we can learn so much information from that vid. 

I don't think 'we'll' ever capture the straight infront of the cab sound but that's not to worry about. most recordings in studios don't capture that sound either. 

It's got lots of grit but it's kinda still got some mellowness in the sound.


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## dreyn77

the bass channel isn't a bass channel. it's a low impedence amp circuit. 

plug in your les paul personal guitar and it makes the right tone for that setup. nice warm marshall sound with the usual marshall crunch and a low sensitivity sound. there's NO 'finger sliding on the strings' sound when you play the right gear in those inputs. 
it still amps in the same method as the high inputs so a bright cap on that section allows the amp to be turned down to lower volume settings and still have the bright sound.  the sound is like having a lower wattage amp effect. if you know what I mean. 
cheers! 

for lots of years there was 2 types of pickups. so the amps had two different types of inputs to cater for those pickups. 

Gibson made the 2 types for years. 

When I plug in my ESP guitar I use the low input on the 5010 amp and I play along with JEFF BECK with his same tone, but with 'reduced string sound' sound. 
It's a great sound that MR Les Paul used for years.


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## keennay

Cool stuff!


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## keennay

Johan, great presentation as usual! I always greatly appreciate your video demos. I'd have to say your _Original Greenbacks Vs Creambacks Vs Blackbacks_ video has the most articulate sounding JMP I've ever heard on any YouTube recorded video, thanks to your mic selection & Apogee Duet.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6IhLfVs6Qg[/ame]

Regarding the Super Bass clip: I really liked the close/room mic, close mic, & room mic comparison towards the end & can only hope they're continued in the forthcoming videos. I can definitely hear that Marshall EL34 power tube roar ~3:34 when you switch to the room mic. Hearing the room mic by itself felt like I time-traveled a couple of decades into the past!

A couple of questions:


Which close mic were you using in the Super Bass video?
What was the deciding factor to use a ribbon mic as a room mic versus a close mic in most of your vids, specifically the BeyerDynamic M160?
Have you had the chance to compare your '60s BeyerDynamic to a newer BeyerDynamic & Royer 121/122?
For anything heavier & high gain (boosted JMP 2203/2204 territory + JB/Super Distortion pickups) would you still recommend the Peluso as a close mic?


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## yladrd61

Nice work Johan,

I look forward to your videos in my you tube updates...


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## 66SuperTremolo

Joshabr1 said:


> What Dreyn?????? What does that really mean? I want to know personally


 
WTF..... Me Too !


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## 66SuperTremolo

JohanSegeborn said:


> Hi Guys!
> 
> Here's the first feature clip, you know we're gonna post one every Saturday: 1967 Super Bass Ex Paul Kossoff.
> 
> We really want you to criticize the format we've chosen for presenting each amp, as well as possible errors, so we can optimize it until the next amp clip (which will be the '67 JTM Black Flag  ). So don't hold back.
> 
> Cheers!
> Johan and Plexi
> 
> Marshall 1967 Plexi Super Bass Owned by Paul Kossoff - Demo and Circuit Survey - YouTube


 
Looking forward to the Black Flag clip.  Johan on behalf of everyone, thanks for the huge effort involved and for presenting everything you do with such enthusiasm and professionalism. Much Appreciated !!!


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## JohanSegeborn

Thanks man, Really glad to hear that you liked the Green/Cream/blackback clip! 

I was using a M160 as close mic as well. I often use 2 M160 for my recordings. It has a very natural sound. As a close mic it takes away possible harshness and as a room mic it doesn't enhance possible phase problem frequencies in the room. It's much more convenient than setting up two tube mics every tine.

Have compared with newer M160s or 121 yet, but I'm aiming to. 

The Peluso is great for all styles. I can do a shootout for,say, metal, blues and soul where I do all combinations of:

Dynamic mic
Ribbon Mic
Large Condenser 
Large Condenser Tube
Small Condenser

Tube Micpreamp
Solid state Mic preamp


Would that be interesting?

Cheers
Johan




keennay said:


> A couple of questions:
> 
> 
> Which close mic were you using in the Super Bass video?
> What was the deciding factor to use a ribbon mic as a room mic versus a close mic in most of your vids, specifically the BeyerDynamic M160?
> Have you had the chance to compare your '60s BeyerDynamic to a newer BeyerDynamic & Royer 121/122?
> For anything heavier & high gain (boosted JMP 2203/2204 territory + JB/Super Distortion pickups) would you still recommend the Peluso as a close mic?


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## JohanSegeborn

Ah, you mean the model Les Paul Proffesional with all the knobs and switches. It had low impedance pickups, but you had to use the hi impedance output with an amp. I dont know if it was mellower or brighter than ordinary Les Pauls.

Cheers



dreyn77 said:


> maybe cause its a les paul professional/personal pickup types channel. and therefore entitled to have a bright cap cause it works in the same way as the ordinary les paul pickups type channel (high input)


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## Joshabr1

Johan i know your a nice guy. ....Don't pretend to know what he means. It will cause u mental and social grief. He's an enigma that is way better than the German ww2 job. He could mean corvettes or airplanes or u boats or toothpicks or chewing gum or tree bark or cats teeth or wine cheese or girls dick or hippo crack or Elk jizz or DVDs aren't real or record store prophets or Shakespeare . I assure u....... U will never know


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## Blacque Jacque

LOL.


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## johnfv

I gave up long ago


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## johnfv

Great video Johan, I really appreciated the highlighting of the various sections of the circuit. Great playing as always...


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## dreyn77

Yeah, yeah. plug in those old Les Paul guitars or the modern versions like ESP/EMG into the high inputs and that's B.A.D. BAD sound. 
plug them into the other inputs and WAMBOOSH there's the same type of sound as the other pickup setup but very distinctively unique. the reason for being! for those active pickups  

Did I mention the VINTAGE section has lots of trouble in it?
Take away the great comments from guys like Johan, Kennay and a few others including myself and there's NOTHING left except BS and dribble from the kiddies. 
No wonder the onlookers find this section boring and move on. 

I think I might subscribe to FACEBOOK and get a life over there with all the experts it seems.  I think facebook has more morals. 
I know it's shocking to say it.


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## keennay

JohanSegeborn said:


> Thanks man, Really glad to hear that you liked the Green/Cream/blackback clip!
> 
> I was using a M160 as close mic as well. I often use 2 M160 for my recordings. It has a very natural sound. As a close mic it takes away possible harshness and as a room mic it doesn't enhance possible phase problem frequencies in the room. It's much more convenient than setting up two tube mics every tine.
> 
> Have compared with newer M160s or 121 yet, but I'm aiming to.
> 
> The Peluso is great for all styles. I can do a shootout for,say, metal, blues and soul where I do all combinations of:
> 
> Dynamic mic
> Ribbon Mic
> Large Condenser
> Large Condenser Tube
> Small Condenser
> 
> Tube Micpreamp
> Solid state Mic preamp
> 
> 
> Would that be interesting?
> 
> Cheers
> Johan



Johan, if you actually took the time to make a comparison video between your microphones I'd be more than grateful. I think this would even serve as a deciding factor towards choosing a mic setup for myself.

I look forward to hearing more, and possibly some of your Les Paul Black Beauty w/ Super Distortions.


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## Risamaru

Great job on the video. I just watched the one with the Mesa sounding like a plexi, very convincing. I liked when the kid came and bashed you in the head with the ball and stole the camera. HA HA.


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## JohanSegeborn

Thanks man, good to hear! Cheers 



johnfv said:


> Great video Johan, I really appreciated the highlighting of the various sections of the circuit. Great playing as always...


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## JohanSegeborn

I'll start working on it this weekend! Cheers



keennay said:


> Johan, if you actually took the time to make a comparison video between your microphones I'd be more than grateful. I think this would even serve as a deciding factor towards choosing a mic setup for myself.
> 
> I look forward to hearing more, and possibly some of your Les Paul Black Beauty w/ Super Distortions.


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## JohanSegeborn

Thanks! Yeah that's the second tine I get my ass kicked by my nephew in a video. Haha. Cheers



Risamaru said:


> Great job on the video. I just watched the one with the Mesa sounding like a plexi, very convincing. I liked when the kid came and bashed you in the head with the ball and stole the camera. HA HA.


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## Susihukkanen

Tack Johan! Excellent video! I enjoyed all the amps but my favorite was the Black Flag. Can't wait next weekend when you release the detailled video about it!


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## 66SuperTremolo

Susihukkanen said:


> Tack Johan! Excellent video! I enjoyed all the amps but my favorite was the Black Flag. Can't wait next weekend when you release the detailled video about it!


 
Next weekend  Roll on the weekend ! Give it a good workout..... LP straight in


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## dreyn77

I liked the cloud vids.  I'm learning all about them at the moment so it's great to see some slowmotion footage of what's happening up there. 

If you guys checkout the guitar world clip of the 1959RR amp demo, you just might be able to hear the difference between that amps channels. 
but you to have to concentrate and listen very closely to the 2 sounds. 
the difference is recorded but it's super difficult to hear the difference.


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## Mr Insane

I think a different mic should have been used for the video. Maybe an SM57 for instance.


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## JohanSegeborn

Do you have any experience of vintage M160s that leads you to that conclusion? 
Cheers Johan




Mr Insane said:


> I think a different mic should have been used for the video. Maybe an SM57 for instance.


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## JohanSegeborn

The wide spread use of the SM57 is mainly because it has high rolloff as well as low rolloff that lets it sit in dense mixes. For the very same reason it's not a suitable mic to showcase an amps sound. If anything we should have used condensers rather than ribbons. However at this volume that wasnt feasible.



Mr Insane said:


> I think a different mic should have been used for the video. Maybe an SM57 for instance.


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## pleximaster

More Black Flag Super Bass!

https://youtu.be/a7roUDox39M

plexi


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## Mr Insane

JohanSegeborn said:


> Do you have any experience of vintage M160s that leads you to that conclusion?
> Cheers Johan



Well so far my experience is that your video was too "buzzy" for my tastes. I'll pick my SM57 over any vintage multi-thousand dollar mic out there.


----------



## Joshabr1

Mr Insane said:


> Well so far my experience is that your video was too "buzzy" for my tastes. I'll pick my SM57 over any vintage multi-thousand dollar mic out there.



9 post in and Johan's videos don't suit you? Whoa there hoss


----------



## rjohns1

Johan, really enjoying the videos. It is amazing to get to hear these great amps in this context. I've just subscribed and am enjoying your other vids.


----------



## Dogs of Doom

Mr Insane said:


> Well so far my experience is that your video was too "buzzy" for my tastes. I'll pick my SM57 over any vintage multi-thousand dollar mic out there.


SM57 is a general purpose (generic) mic. A jack of all trades, a master of none. It is a bit nasally for my tastes...

Chances are, if you're doing live sound & have 30- SM57 mic's, you can make a band sound good. In a studio, you would not choose that option - well... maybe you would...


----------



## Dogs of Doom

pleximaster said:


> More Black Flag Super Bass!
> 
> https://youtu.be/a7roUDox39M
> 
> plexi


you can't use short links, nor https...

[ame]www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7roUDox39M[/ame]


----------



## Susihukkanen

Just heavenly sound! Awesome amp!


----------



## Mr Insane

Joshabr1 said:


> 9 post in and Johan's videos don't suit you? Whoa there hoss



Whoa I only have 9 posts...excuse me for having an opinion on a message board.


----------



## bman

Damn that's awesome!


----------



## Mr Insane

After a second listen through with my headphones, it didn't have the buzz I heard.


----------



## JohanSegeborn

Glad to hear that, Cheers Johan



Mr Insane said:


> After a second listen through with my headphones, it didn't have the buzz I heard.


----------



## dreyn77

what were the amp dials set too? I know it's attenuated. 

great blackflag vid too. interesting amp. it's unusual.


----------



## TAZIN

pleximaster said:


> More Black Flag Super Bass!
> 
> https://youtu.be/a7roUDox39M
> 
> plexi


 
You just got to love that thick somewhat raw tone that these JTM100's offer.....And no hint of 'ghosting' which some of these amps suffer from. I noticed that the slope resistor and treble cap for the tone stack were changed to a 39K/560pF arrangement....Was this done for tone improvement or did the amp just come that way? Likewise, I also noticed a bright cap of the lead channel potentiometer; is this a 100pF cap?


----------



## rjohns1

Yes, Johan, I second the request for amp knob setttings. It would put things into perspective better.


----------



## pleximaster

TAZIN said:


> You just got to love that thick somewhat raw tone that these JTM100's offer.....And no hint of 'ghosting' which some of these amps suffer from. I noticed that the slope resistor and treble cap for the tone stack were changed to a 39K/560pF arrangement....Was this done for tone improvement or did the amp just come that way? Likewise, I also noticed a bright cap of the lead channel potentiometer; is this a 100pF cap?



You have very good eyes! I am impressed! 

I restored this amp a few years back and I used the values from another Super Bass only 3 serial numbers away that had that arrangement and also sounded very sweet. And yes a 100pF cap for my own personal taste.

I even think the JJ tubes sound good in this amp. I had a problem with the bias after restoring it and I put in this set till i got it fixed. But it sounded great so I left them there. There are a lot of opinions about JJ tubes but even though tubes alter sound it is still a marginal effect in the total chain of hands-guitar-amp- and speaker...


best plexi


----------



## pleximaster

The settings are stated in the comments of youtube clip but its good to have them here as well! 

Gain I: 8-9, Gain II: 0, treble: around 8, mid: 10, bass: between 2-6, presence: around 7-8

best plexi


----------



## Viking62

Wow! wish I had that collection
1969 mkII Super Lead
Would be nice to see the demo done on a Strat too


----------



## neikeel

pleximaster said:


> You have very good eyes! I am impressed!
> I restored this amp a few years back and I used the values from another Super Bass only 3 serial numbers away that had that arrangement and also sounded very sweet. And yes a 100pF cap for my own personal taste!
> best plexi



This is very unusual to only have a single filter cap in the preamp (like a JTM45). Even my slightly earlier amp (45/100 with -119OT) has the extra 10k dropper and dual 32 can as do all other JTM100s. Sorry if I missed it does yours have a Drake -132 OT?
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j2/neikeel/67 Superlead/AmpsDec09008.jpg
Originally a silver TCC I had to replace it with the blue Erie.


----------



## TAZIN

Marshall started the 32uF+32uF preamp filter cap coupled with the two 10K/1w B+ dropping resistors for the preamp back in '66, so this JTM100 would have had this arrangement too. As far as I know, all the JTM100 'black flag' Bass and Leads had the 1202-119 OT.


----------



## Appetite4distortion

End of the video shows -119 OT picture.
Agree with Tazin, never saw a black flag with -132, though the opposite not true, I have a JMP with -119 and dual rectifiers, so it's 100% a black flag but the logo, surely the first JMP panels made.
I've seen also a JMP with -132 but still with dual rectifiers, that I expect to sound definitely like a cross.
I have also a -132 with single rectifier and I can confirm the sound is very different from the -119 black flag, which sounds very similar to this video.
Congratulations and keep on!


----------



## 66SuperTremolo

Just wanted to pay my respects to a Legend and a huge part of one of my fav bands growing up - FREE. Andy Fraser passed away sadly. Child Prodigy and killer Bass Player / Songwriter & Marshall Plexi user.

R.I.P. Andy Thanks for the great music.

A Very young FREE


----------



## pleximaster

I just emailed with him a few weeks ago! 

Life...

plexi


----------



## Midnight Blues

Super (Bass/Lead) informative Johan and Plexi! Looking forward to the others!


Thanks and


----------



## 67guitars

Some Advice please!
Completely unrelated but new to site, not sure how to stry new thread.
Seeking knowledgeable advice on a trade I was offered.
I am trying to trade/sell my '94 JCM 900 dual reverb 4100 100 watt with a 1922 2x12 cab.
I was offered a late 80's JCM 800 single channel head only.
Is this a good trade? Or Should I keep looking

Thanks guys


----------



## 66SuperTremolo

67guitars said:


> Some Advice please!
> Completely unrelated but new to site, not sure how to stry new thread.
> Seeking knowledgeable advice on a trade I was offered.
> I am trying to trade/sell my '94 JCM 900 dual reverb 4100 100 watt with a 1922 2x12 cab.
> I was offered a late 80's JCM 800 single channel head only.
> Is this a good trade? Or Should I keep looking
> 
> Thanks guys


 
Top right...... Click on New Thread. Type in HEADING and then Question in the box below.


----------



## mAx___

Blacque Jacque said:


> Great shootout guys.
> 
> One thing that really struck me.... I was listening on cans while doing something else, not watching. A few minutes in I thought, " Wow, that amp is noisy (hum etc.) & harsh sounding. After a while I heard the same thing again......
> 
> 
> It was the 2005 Handwired.
> 
> 
> All of the amps had varying characters, all sounded great, although some sounded better to me / gave more of a sound I prefer.
> 
> Anyway, a fantastic selection of amps Pleximaster, and some tasty licks Johan.


Same here. It was the only amp I didn't like of the whole bunch.


----------



## 66SuperTremolo

Looking forward to the next featured amp ...... what's next


----------



## JohanSegeborn

Hi!

Here's this Saturdays Plexi Clip! Marshall 1968 JMP 50W Lead Plexi

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYhYULo8C0U&list=UUyaStghQb7_e51PgH8bUkzg]Marshall 1968 JMP 50W Lead Plexi - Demo and Circuit Survey - YouTube[/ame]

Next Saturday March 28 we're gonna take a closer look at a '65 JTM45

Cheers
Johan and Pleximaster


----------



## TAZIN

Placed back to back you can tell how much more agressive the '68 50w Lead is compare to the '65 JTM45 as depicted in the end of the video. To me the '68 50w Lead is on the realm of the "perfect" amplifier for just about any tone you'd want....It's the "go to guy" of amps. Thanks Johan and Pleximaster for making the videos.


----------



## keennay

Great stuff!

I think I'm more excited waking up to a new video than I was waking up to Saturday morning cartoons as a kid. 

Johan and/or Pleximaster, not sure if this was covered elsewhere but what speakers do the rest of the cabs have?


----------



## JohanSegeborn

Thanks man, that's very nice of you  

The 28 Speaker Cabinets Shootout will probably be posted next week. They're mostly loaded with T1221, T1281 and T1511 Celestion Greenbacks. The cabs are for instance 4x12, 2x12, 1x15, 8x10 in a bunch of shapes and sizes.

Cheers
Johan 



keennay said:


> Great stuff!
> 
> I think I'm more excited waking up to a new video than I was waking up to Saturday morning cartoons as a kid.
> 
> Johan and/or Pleximaster, not sure if this was covered elsewhere but what speakers do the rest of the cabs have?


----------



## pleximaster

TAZIN said:


> Placed back to back you can tell how much more agressive the '68 50w Lead is compare to the '65 JTM45 as depicted in the end of the video. To me the '68 50w Lead is on the realm of the "perfect" amplifier for just about any tone you'd want....It's the "go to guy" of amps. Thanks Johan and Pleximaster for making the videos.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYhYULo8C0U

Here is a longer clip of the 68 50Watt, the "Salvation plexi"... 

plexi


----------



## 66SuperTremolo

Holy Crap...... if that's not Godly Rock Tone. 

Great comprehensive demo of its tonal capabilities Johan !!!!

*** No pedals need apply 

Got to dig out my '68 bad boy and wake him up......been a while now.


----------



## London John

Here's some shoot-out fun with their smaller brethren......

www.youtube.com/embed/SLOu6Kvw8hg


----------



## neikeel

Smokin'. Some may criticise JB for playing to much or too fast (they did that to Gary Moore too) but it does demonstrate the sustain and gain of these amps together with the nuances of the highs and lows that you do not quite get with heavy chord work, IMO of course!

To my surprise, based on those clips I liked the original 1x12 and the JTM45. The 45 sounded almost like neck pup for honk but he had bridge pup and upper left input.

John is that a lead, bass or PA spec JTM45? (ie mixer cap or not). EC used to plug into that input with his SG and 335 (presumably his burst too?)

Think this might deserve its own thread? Shame the early slant logo Alnico 1x12 not in there too...............


----------



## London John

neikeel said:


> John is that a lead, bass or PA spec JTM45?



Hey Neil, it's a Bass head.


----------



## BygoneTones

London John said:


> Here's some shoot-out fun with their smaller brethren......
> 
> www.youtube.com/embed/SLOu6Kvw8hg



Nice to finally hear those amps, and who better to do it!


----------



## dreyn77

the amp sounds like it was struggling with what it was doing. 

It's interesting, but I can see why marshall thought it wasn't for everyone and changed the design. it seemed to have what seemed like a sound with phasing issues.
thanks for the vid. I guess these vids will become an industry standard.


----------



## pleximaster

dreyn77 said:


> the amp sounds like it was struggling with what it was doing.
> 
> It's interesting, but I can see why marshall thought it wasn't for everyone and changed the design. it seemed to have what seemed like a sound with phasing issues.
> thanks for the vid. I guess these vids will become an industry standard.



Hi Dreyn77
which amp do are you talking about?

best plexi


----------



## 66SuperTremolo

Sure as hell wasn't the JMP-50 That guy was smokin !!!


----------



## BygoneTones

London John said:


> Here's some shoot-out fun with their smaller brethren......
> 
> www.youtube.com/embed/SLOu6Kvw8hg



out of interest where is the thread for this on the les paul forum? got a link?


----------



## Appetite4distortion

London Hang..."burst and Marshall content.....


----------



## BygoneTones

Appetite4distortion said:


> London Hang..."burst and Marshall content.....



 very cool thanks. I was looking in the amp section.


----------



## dreyn77

the 68 50watt


----------



## JohanSegeborn

When I discuss guitar amps with a non musician engineer, his objective in this area would be to convey the tone of a guitar with as much integrity as possible or maybe even to optimize distortion textures. With that objective there are obviously far better alternatives than these amps. These amps are however all about technical imperfections, resulting in sag, compression, phasing and so on. To me these amps are, in some sense, beyond what technology can achieve in terms of active design. To me it was a religious experience to play Pleximasters amps, and especially the 68 50W JMP Lead. Assuming that you even like the sound of plexis the only thing that may be flawed in this clip would be my playing, because these amps are simply benchmark (something that has been confirmed by far more accomplished players than myself)


Cheers





dreyn77 said:


> the amp sounds like it was struggling with what it Ewas doing.
> 
> It's interesting, but I can see why marshall thought it wasn't for everyone and changed the design. it seemed to have what seemed like a sound with phasing issues.
> thanks for the vid. I guess these vids will become an industry standard.


----------



## slagg

dreyn77 said:


> the amp sounds like it was struggling with what it was doing.
> 
> It's interesting, but I can see why marshall thought it wasn't for everyone and changed the design. it seemed to have what seemed like a sound with phasing issues.
> thanks for the vid. I guess these vids will become an industry standard.



Agree with that.Sounds like the P.I. is being over loaded.May have the input grid resistor drifting off value.


----------



## pleximaster

I really like so id better start modding some amps overloading the pi trying to replicate this one


Best regards plexi


----------



## 66SuperTremolo

Over 20 yrs playing Plexi's and a friend with a studio full of em from all era's.

Sounded F'n Awesome to my ears, even through my computer. Hence my comment, it couldn't be the JMP-50 '68 he was referring to.


----------



## JohanSegeborn

Maybe you guys can provide us with som clips of how you tweak and play your amps, so we can better understand what you mean. Assuming you do play the guitar, that is.

I love to discuss amps with anyone, but let's make sure we create new information here, rather than recycling the standard chunks of Marshall information found on google. Which just adds to the confusion.

Cheers



slagg said:


> Agree with that.Sounds like the P.I. is being over loaded.May have the input grid resistor drifting off value.



QUOTE=dreyn77;1300503]the 68 50watt[/QUOTE]


----------



## mott555

Johan, this is your best shootout yet! I can't believe how different all those amps sound.


----------



## JohanSegeborn

Thanks! Great to hear that. Yeah it is indeed amazing how different they sound, especially considering how similar the circuits are.

Cheers
Johan



mott555 said:


> Johan, this is your best shootout yet! I can't believe how different all those amps sound.


----------



## 66SuperTremolo

JohanSegeborn said:


> Maybe you guys can provide us with som clips of how you tweak and play your amps, so we can better understand what you mean. Assuming you do play the guitar, that is.
> 
> I love to discuss amps with anyone, but let's make sure we create new information here, rather than recycling the standard chunks of Marshall information found on google. Which just adds to the confusion.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> 
> 
> QUOTE=dreyn77;1300503]the 68 50watt


[/QUOTE]

AND DO play Original Plexi's !!!

Looking forward to this weeks featured amp....... JTM-45 and seeing more of Gothenburg


----------



## JohanSegeborn

Great to hear! I'll find some interesting place in Gothenburg to start off the clip at! Cheers Johan




66SuperTremolo said:


> AND DO play Original Plexi's !!!
> 
> Looking forward to this weeks featured amp....... JTM-45 and seeing more of Gothenburg


----------



## slagg

JohanSegeborn said:


> Maybe you guys can provide us with som clips of how you tweak and play your amps, so we can better understand what you mean. Assuming you do play the guitar, that is.
> 
> I love to discuss amps with anyone, but let's make sure we create new information here, rather than recycling the standard chunks of Marshall information found on google. Which just adds to the confusion.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> 
> 
> QUOTE=dreyn77;1300503]the 68 50watt


[/QUOTE]

I built a 2061'ish clone that had that overly compressed/squeezed sound at full volume.I started with a 220k(as shematic shows)input grid resister at the P.I. Ended up with a 680k and was able to crank the amp to full volume without it puking out.It just sounds to me that amp has a bit of the same thing going on.But to each there own.


----------



## 66SuperTremolo

JohanSegeborn said:


> Great to hear! I'll find some interesting place in Gothenburg to start off the clip at! Cheers Johan


 

Beautiful Amps & Beautiful City....... don't get no better 

Thanks Johan.


----------



## JohanSegeborn

Cool, thats good feedback! This is what this thread is all about - to document how all the components can be tweaked to get different sounds.

The Original 2061 actually had 680k and the Reissue 2061x has the 220k. 

Original: 
Amp Archives/Marshall/Schematics & Layouts/20W Layouts/lead20W

Reissue:
Here's a schematic I traced of the Marshall handwired 20 watt, 2061X

Cheers
Johan





slagg said:


> I built a 2061'ish clone that had that overly compressed/squeezed sound at full volume.I started with a 220k(as shematic shows)input grid resister at the P.I. Ended up with a 680k and was able to crank the amp to full volume without it puking out.It just sounds to me that amp has a bit of the same thing going on.But to each there own.


----------



## Georgiatec

Took me awhile to settle down and listen to this properly. The KT 66 amps sound noticeably rounder than the EL34 amps, while the EL34's give that characteristic Marshall gnarly raunch that I love. Given the choice, the '71 SL would come home with me.
Thanks for the shoutout guys and I love your old school chops Johann.


----------



## dreyn77

No no, the vids are awesome! the gear is incredible too. 

that's just what I thought about the sound. it's no big deal. 
I don't hear that slightly different sound with the other amps. 

if that's what it's suppose to do, then great! it's different. 

marshall amps started off with incredible amps and made more incredible amps. I don't see a bad one in their history. 

all our knowledge is from completely different view points. there's no right or wrong persay, we just know different stuff. 

SOme people have out of this world knowledge, and they're going to mars. what they know is totally different to what I know. 
and vice versa. 

I was looking at getting a 15inch JBL speaker just from what you did with that speaker shootout. 
unfortunitely it was a PA version of the vintage JBL. 
There's NO ideal reference sound but you guys provide A reference sound. So as long as we know what that actually is (dial settings), then it becomes the best reference sound available on youtube. and probably the best reference sound from all recordings cause guys like Paul stanley and ace frehley never really told anyone what they actually did. 

These clips are now the actual reference sound of amps just like these models. guys are going to compare to these amps. 

You could add to what your doing and put a photo of the vid onto Tshirts and sell them over the net. it's famous now. just add to the fame.


----------



## slagg

Yes,you have to love these amps.All of them are wicked in there own way


----------



## mott555

I thought my 2204 was perfect, but if I ever end up in a place where I can play loud there needs to be a Plexi in my life.


----------



## JohanSegeborn

Thanks  Appreciate it. 

Cheers Johan



Georgiatec said:


> Took me awhile to settle down and listen to this properly. The KT 66 amps sound noticeably rounder than the EL34 amps, while the EL34's give that characteristic Marshall gnarly raunch that I love. Given the choice, the '71 SL would come home with me.
> Thanks for the shoutout guys and I love your old school chops Johann.


----------



## JAC

Way cool! After a serious good relaxed listen.............................here we go!

There was not one bad sounding tone wise of all these amps. I did not like some of the electrical noise on a couple of them, one of which was a favorite of mine. 

My number one favorite is the beat up 69 with the missing "M" and the tolex all messed up on it. 

My second favorite tone wise is the 2005 handwired. The only bad thing is the electrical noise it put out.

The Paul K amp sounds good but, being an older amp it also has the electrical noise.

The 67 50 watt plexi he was playing leads on was incredible and clean! It has a nice bite. 

All the PAs were clean and they sounded outstanding! Imagine that! Great for both guitar and vocals!

Like on many bass amps, they can sound great with a six string as well!

I believe some of my favorite tones were the ones made between 67 to 69. 

Thanks for posting this Johan! If you keep this up I'm going to start thinking that you actually like Marshall amps just a little bit! I like that Lester you were jamming on as well.


----------



## JohanSegeborn

Here is the week's Plexi!

The '66 JTM45 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JM4L9FXk_tk&list=UUyaStghQb7_e51PgH8bUkzg]Marshall 1966 JTM45 Plexi - Demo and Circuit Survey - YouTube[/ame]

It's actually an early 66 not a 65 as I assumed by the block logo.

Cheers
Johan and Pleximaster


----------



## 66SuperTremolo

Man that is awesome, Bite, Clarity, Sass & Attitude. That would nail Angus Young tone to a tee. Great Great Amp.

I understand why Jim Marshall said his fav amp of all was the JTM-45. 

Interesting how some of these were factory produced with EL-34s instead of KT-66s.

Was the block end chassis after the all aluminium chassis ? Mine has all aluminium chassis. Its an early '66 BB chassis built as a dedicated head version by Marshall instead of in a combo.

Great work Johan as always !!! 

This spin off series is so worth looking foward to each week !!! Brilliant..... Thanks


----------



## Blokkadeleider

JohanSegeborn said:


> Here is the week's Plexi!
> 
> The '66 JTM45
> 
> Marshall 1966 JTM45 Plexi - Demo and Circuit Survey - YouTube
> 
> It's actually an early 66 not a 65 as I assumed by the block logo.
> 
> Cheers
> Johan and Pleximaster



That is simply sweet. I like the warm sound of those earlier JTM's.


Gr,

Gerrit.

*I still think the whole thing should be done over with a strat too


----------



## neikeel

66SuperTremolo said:


> Man that is awesome, Bite, Clarity, Sass & Attitude. That would nail Angus Young tone to a tee. Great Great Amp.
> Interesting how some of these were factory produced with EL-34s instead of KT-66s.
> Were the block end chassis after the all aluminium chassis ?
> Great work Johan as always !!!


 
See my previous post
No JTM45s with -103 OT had EL34s
The EL34 came with the -128 OT and the amp became JTM50 and JMP50
Sweet tones tho'


----------



## 66SuperTremolo

neikeel said:


> See my previous post
> No JTM45s with -103 OT had EL34s
> The EL34 came with the -128 OT and the amp became JTM50 and JMP50
> Sweet tones tho'


 
Yes, but there were rogues made at the time by Marshall that were JTM-45 with EL-34s instead of KT-66. They had the correct mains trannie for EL-34s (Red / White lead wire) instead of the KT-66 (Red / Black).

Greg Germino confirmed this having seen and worked on a few and having a friend who has one of them.

They were branded JTM-45 pre Black Flag


----------



## pleximaster

So what is the verdict from the expert on this amp? What year would you say?

Best plexi


----------



## neikeel

66SuperTremolo said:


> Yes, but there were rogues made at the time by Marshall that were JTM-45 with EL-34s instead of KT-66. They had the correct mains trannie for EL-34s (Red / White lead wire) instead of the KT-66 (Red / Black).
> Greg Germino confirmed this having seen and worked on a few and having a friend who has one of them.
> They were branded JTM-45 pre Black Flag


 
Mains trannie red/white vs red/black 
Oh you mean OT primaries...
During this era the OT has a number stamped on it. By definition that would be the Drale 784-128OT.
I have one of these amps, and it is actually early '67. White rear panel. Most of these have JMP front panels, Mine has JTM BF but I suspect it is changed (although genuine original panel).
The only way to check would be 8k vs 3.4k primary if no stamp on the OT, but it is easy to take two KT66 out and sub them for EL34s, anyone can do it.
The Block Logo added to this amp which is block end chassis raises questions about its authenticity.
That it sounds good is not in dispute, but is it correct................


----------



## TAZIN

The video shows 784-139 on the endbell....I can see brown, white and red primary OT wires along with a yellow, green, and gray for the OT secondary wires, so that confirms the Drake 784-139. Possibly a replaced OT? FWIW, the 32uF mains filter cap has a June 1966 date, but is it original to the amp? Regardless, the amp does sound great in its current configuration.


----------



## pleximaster

The interior is intact and transformers are not replaced in my opinon, but it is recovered by marshall 2005 and it originally had a script logo. The plexi panel is original and nothing indicates it would be not original to the amp. So the year should than be 1966? early 67?

plexi


----------



## TAZIN

This is a tough amp to pin point a date from since a decent amount of parts have been replaced. I would try reading the date codes from the potentiometers and see what they have to say. The problem so far is the Drake 784-139 OT which is more of a 1967 thing verse 1966....


----------



## neikeel

pleximaster said:


> So what is the verdict on this amp? What year would you say?
> Best plexi



The mixture of grey v1 couplers and yellow chicklets is interesting, the PI output couplers are new, the styrene PI cap and on vol 1 pot are replaced. The 470k mixer resistors are 67 onwards.

The parts I see that could be original to a late '66 JTM45 would be the chassis, the front and rear panels. The 68k input reistors, The PT and choke are original as are the selectors (typical later arrangement).

All the caps and quite a lot of the resistors and OT are replaced. The board has turrets for two 10k droppers in series (extra turret) that you see on mid 68on amps. The 784-139 only came out in late 67...........JTM45 would have 470R screen resistors, typically with an extra flying resistor from the turret that supple the screen voltage

It looks very much to me like a Musicground bitsa special. Ask Tazin for his honest opinion.
It does sound nice, Johan's playing is good too.

What is the amps provenance?


----------



## 66SuperTremolo

Greg Germino was saying that he had worked on a couple of stock original JTM-45s that had the correct O/T for EL-34s and a friend also has one, original from the factory. These must have been JTM-50s but received the remaining JTM-45 Faceplates. 

My JTM-45 MKIV SuperTrem (Head) is mid '66..... no end blocks. 

I noticed the mustard caps are very clean, dont seem period correct and no typical dark shading as most have from use. Those would never be replaced on a stock orignal. Also a chassis with block ends, being later version than my non reinforced chassis, would not have all those gray RS caps. Mine is mid '66 with no RS components except for the fuses, internal chassis mounted cap can and Choke. Should be a large brown Hunts cap under the power input socket. All fixing screws and nuts should be brass. What's with the bracket around the board mounted cap can ?
It is a killer sounding amp though.


----------



## pleximaster

I got it off the Bay (UK) from a private collector that I don´t personally know... so there´s a chance of it coming from Denmark street... 


I checked the pots and most of them date from 66... with all your info it does see as a Frankenstein amp but if its a restoration or lash up is hard to know, or is there a difference between lash up and restoration? In my mind its how you sell it... 


It does however sound extremely good! Using a good Les Paul and rolling of the tone control you get perfekt "brother in arms tone"...

plexi


----------



## neikeel

pleximaster said:


> is there a difference between lash up and restoration? In my mind its how you sell it...



Absolutely!

My main point is that it is a great players amp but it is far from a classic JTM45 spec.

I sold an extremely original late 65 (script logo) JTM45 last year for £4.5k. It was a nice amp and great for recording but I found my oddball 50w JTM50 could cover the tones it had and overlap with my 68. I needed the money so the 65 had to go. If things had got worse the 68 would have had to go but as it is I still have both and used the 68 at last weeks gig (mainly because it cuts through the mix slightly better live). Today was a couple of hours setting up my recording gear and giving the 67 45/100 a work out, sounds every bit as good as yours (I would be a fool to say better!). Just need to tighten up my isolated playing before exposing it to public scrutiny:Ohno:


----------



## slagg

JohanSegeborn said:


> Here is the week's Plexi!
> 
> The '66 JTM45
> 
> Marshall 1966 JTM45 Plexi - Demo and Circuit Survey - YouTube
> 
> It's actually an early 66 not a 65 as I assumed by the block logo.
> 
> Cheers
> Johan and Pleximaster



This is the sound I hear when I think "Vintage Marshall" just


----------



## pleximaster

I don´t think this is the work of MG as I got some parts and the vinyl/tolex that was on the amp before it was refurbished by Marshall. MG would have made everything look "good". 

I don´t know why they replaced the gray RS with mustards, I´ll measure them and see if I can refit them. Problem is that the amp sounds so good right now I might not dare change a thing. Sound is more important then originality in my opinion. I have had super mint plexis the were´t that special, I have sold them... 

Then I have the time I am planning on put the original tolex back on an remove the painted marshall logo.

The amp have had at one period a slave input and then a master volume according to earlier owner. Then I bought this one I could not inspect it in person since the seller wouldn't deal outside UK. I ended up getting it via a forum member who then send it to me.

plexi


----------



## TAZIN

Like Neil has pointed out the amp has seen a lot of changes; intentional or otherwise. So, is it a lash-up or a restoration of sorts....To me this one falls into the "gray area"; meaning I can go either way. If the potentiometer date codes (minus the Bass pot) seem to fall around the mid 1966 range then that supports the chassis, PT, choke, mains filter cap, and selectors being from around mid 1966. I've seen other mid '66 (July thru Sept.) JTM45's with the same sloppy and random colored heater wiring. Also, the un-numbered choke is something you also see in mid '66 amps. The OT is a replaced part...So is the turret board. The physical location of the turret board within the chassis is incorrect. In addition, the location of some of the turrets themselves are incorrectly placed on the board to support mid '66 manufacture. The somewhat odd shade of green used for the link wires is something I've have not seen in other '66 amps. It looks like the majority of the valve sockets were replaced too. The 9-pin miniature sockets look like Cinch's with "bottom up" mounting rather than "top down" mounting normally found in Marshall's.


----------



## Codyjohns

Here is the week's Plexi !!

The 1968 Marshall Major 200 watt. (model #1978)
Because these are so rare I thought I'd post a clip for people to here what the KT88 King of the Plexi's sound like. 

Cheers Michael 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BoaQumBRDI[/ame]


----------



## Midnight Blues

Another great video Johan! 

One thing I noticed though was that the screenshots for the circuit/components went by pretty quick (I like to study them myself). Can you keep them up a little longer?

Thanks and I'm looking forward to the Super Leads!


----------



## pleximaster

Thanks you all for all the information. There is always new things to learn! 

The amp must have had a major overhaul like the Major 200 Pig I am working on at the moment, more rebuild than restoration. 

Strange I didn't notice the board miss placement. There are set of extra holes (The old ones) I wondered why they were´t used during the restoration? Its easy just moving the board to the right location, except some pink wires are too short... could that be the reason?

Best plexi


----------



## 66SuperTremolo

As long as you didn't pay a Collector Price for it. It's a superb sounding amp, and that's what matters most. Who other than a serious collector wants a totally stock museum piece, that could sound average.

Should anyone ever worry bout the originality...... tell them to play it !!!..... SOLD !!!!!!!!


----------



## metromutt

Eagerly awaiting the vid for the 68 12000 SL Johan any news when this might be done?
Love the circuit break downs in the vids too


----------



## dreyn77

the JTM is a very good sound. 
you could use that amp in a lot of situations.


----------



## dreyn77

here's a plexi shootout for you. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REJfTHBGZw0


----------



## 66SuperTremolo

Widdly widdly with head phones on 


Give me Real Plexi Tones https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydItRbb0b1E&feature=player_detailpage#t=192


----------



## Joshabr1

Neil and tazin said it all there. I wish I had a better knowledge of the early era.


----------



## pleximaster

metromutt said:


> Eagerly awaiting the vid for the 68 12000 SL Johan any news when this might be done?
> Love the circuit break downs in the vids too



Some pics while you wait...

Amp Archives/Marshall/100 Watt Series 1965-1981/1959 Super Lead 100W/68 1959 JMP Super Lead 100W SN SL12257

plexi


----------



## JohanSegeborn

This weeks Plexi  '69 Super Tremolo!

http://youtu.be/yEv4NMlL_t0


----------



## sct13

JohanSegeborn said:


> This weeks Plexi  '69 Super Tremolo!
> 
> http://youtu.be/yEv4NMlL_t0



I am loving your video's 

Great playing and your able to capture the essence of these, very cool. 

Can I make a request? can you keep the pics of the circuits areas on screen a little longer? By the time you look at the schematic then shift your eyes to the place indicated the video moves on the next segment. 

I realize you can go back and pause the vids for later reference. But it might be a smoother presentation if you allowed a few more seconds of eyeball adjustment...

Rock on man!


----------



## Midnight Blues

Good one Johan! Is it me, or did it sound a bit fizzy though?

Can't wait for next week and the rest of the SLs!


Thanks and


----------



## JohanSegeborn

Thanks, On my speakers and headphones I cant hear any fizzieness, what speakers are you listening through?

Cheers!



Midnight Blues said:


> Good one Johan! Is it me, or did it sound a bit fizzy though?
> 
> Can't wait for next week and the rest of the SLs!
> 
> 
> Thanks and


----------



## JohanSegeborn

Thanks, really glad to hear that! Gonna slow em down. The pics on this one were a bit low res so I kind of tried to divert attention from them for those that only are interested in the sound.


sct13 said:


> I am loving your video's
> 
> Great playing and your able to capture the essence of these, very cool.
> 
> Can I make a request? can you keep the pics of the circuits areas on screen a little longer? By the time you look at the schematic then shift your eyes to the place indicated the video moves on the next segment.
> 
> I realize you can go back and pause the vids for later reference. But it might be a smoother presentation if you allowed a few more seconds of eyeball adjustment...
> 
> Rock on man!


----------



## TAZIN

Some wierd overtones on the low E string between 1:12 - 1:25. Almost sounds like a bit of phasing. Speaking of pictures, why are they from three different amps? The top side chassis pictures are from one amp, the main turret board pictures are from another amp (ST/10488), and the filter board area is from yet another amp (ST/10262).


----------



## pleximaster

Nothing slips past you 

That's me messing up not having the time taking pictures of the amps due to the Easter holidays. 

Johan have now send me a complete list of the amps to come and I'll take new good pictures of the amp in the state they were at the demo!

Plexi


----------



## pleximaster

These are the amps to come! 

The 69s are the last of the plexis A 109xx and look more like metal panels 69-70 inside have some odd features like drake chokes. Perhaps using up old stock, one has laydown and one have a standup MT. Love to hear your thoughts about them. The one with the laydown were my very first plexi and is still one of my favourites.

1968, 100 watt Super Lead, model 1959 
1967, 50 Tremolo, model 1987T
1969, 100 watt Super Lead, model 1959 laydown transformer
1969, 100 watt Super Lead, model 1959 standup transformer
1971, 100 watt Super Lead, model 1959 
1966, 100 watt Super P.A. model 1968 
1967, 50 watt Lead, model 1987
1968, 100 watt Super P.A, model 1968


----------



## solarburn

Midnight Blues said:


> Good one Johan! Is it me, or did it sound a bit fizzy though?
> 
> Can't wait for next week and the rest of the SLs!
> 
> 
> Thanks and



I hear a bit of buzz with the saturation throughout but it's vintage buzz so I gave it a pass.


----------



## keennay

pleximaster said:


> These are the amps to come!
> 
> The 69s are the last of the plexis A 109xx and look more like metal panels 69-70 inside have some odd features like drake chokes. Perhaps using up old stock, one has laydown and one have a standup MT. Love to hear your thoughts about them. The one with the laydown were my very first plexi and is still one of my favourites.
> 
> 1968, 100 watt Super Lead, model 1959
> 1967, 50 Tremolo, model 1987T
> 1969, 100 watt Super Lead, model 1959 laydown transformer
> 1969, 100 watt Super Lead, model 1959 standup transformer
> 1971, 100 watt Super Lead, model 1959
> 1966, 100 watt Super P.A. model 1968
> 1967, 50 watt Lead, model 1987
> 1968, 100 watt Super P.A, model 1968



No YJM100? 

Great job guys as usual!


----------



## Codyjohns

JohanSegeborn said:


> This weeks Plexi  '69 Super Tremolo!
> 
> http://youtu.be/yEv4NMlL_t0



Really enjoy your videos, great job on them Johan.


----------



## TAZIN

pleximaster said:


> These are the amps to come!
> 
> The 69s are the last of the plexis A 109xx and look more like metal panels 69-70 inside have some odd features like drake chokes. Perhaps using up old stock, one has laydown and one have a standup MT. Love to hear your thoughts about them. The one with the laydown were my very first plexi and is still one of my favourites.
> 
> 1968, 100 watt Super Lead, model 1959
> 1967, 50 Tremolo, model 1987T
> 1969, 100 watt Super Lead, model 1959 laydown transformer
> 1969, 100 watt Super Lead, model 1959 standup transformer
> 1971, 100 watt Super Lead, model 1959
> 1966, 100 watt Super P.A. model 1968
> 1967, 50 watt Lead, model 1987
> 1968, 100 watt Super P.A, model 1968


 
Once you get into the SL/A10xxx amps (minus a few oddball amps) they are pretty much identical to the metal panel '69 stuff up to around Fall when Marshall started introducing the 2K7/0.68uF arrangement for V1b. So far it looks like around mid April Marshall started phasing in the standup PT for the USA amps so your still in 'plexi' panel territory. Does the chokes in your '69 amps have a Drake part number (i.e. 352 xxx) actually written on them or are you just going by physical appearence? The Dagnall C1999 choke for the early '69 amps looks basically indentical to the Drake 352-114; of coarse with a plastic bobbin; whereas the '68 C1999 has a slightly different U-frame stamping. Almost all the Dagnall C1999 chokes have the part number written on the side of the coil where the leads exist (facing towards the OT and PT).
I know this shootout; and subsequently going through each participating amp, is a big undertaking so I hope my comment about the pictures doesn't make to much additional work for you guys. So far every video has been stellar.


----------



## pleximaster

I value the information from you and Neil and others, I can always learn more about these amps. These are not all museum pieces, and they are not intended to be or portrayed as such. However, Johan and I didnt want to include amps with heavy mods and master volumes installed for instance. I have those amps as well and I only keep amps that I like and sounds good! But a modded amp with a master would be irrelevant for a shootout like this since they are TOO one offs. We did this test to show how Marshall amps differs between models but also between very similar amps. At the same time all these amps sound Marshall. Hope you you get my drift...

This is even more true with the cab shootout. Same cab with same year of production same speaker can sound very different!!! Still sound like Marshall and celestions!!!

I got some comments about lacking or wrong logos on the cabs. Most of the cabs (and some amps) have replaced logos. The logos are so fragile and these cabs and amps have seen a lot of traveling or heavy use, some are recovered as well. I keep most original logos off the cab or amp for safe keeping. Non of the cabs have 100 or the bass logo installed since they are stupidly expensive to by original. This gear is for tone firstly and appearance secondly. Killer sound and neat but not mint is my game.


----------



## solarburn

Awesome thread. Love being able to sample them through these vids.


----------



## neikeel

Nice recording, lots of range in there.
The amp has a little hiss as I think you said it is pretty wide open so you hear it during the quiet passages.
Glad Tazin mentioned the different interior shots as I saw pics of a shared V1 cathode amp but pretty sure I was listening to a split cathode amp (wide open with the presence and treble up it can be hard to tell) and it looked like a 67.

Maybe Tazin can tell me when the shared vs split came with the trems, my impression is a little later than the leads?

I am going to listen to the speaker clips now through proper monitors, one at a time, on a quick listen on my work PC the differences were noticeable but the bass was missing. I now understand why Pleximeister has so many if he is setting up a hire company. I have been assisting a little in a similar venture in Canada.


----------



## Midnight Blues

JohanSegeborn said:


> Thanks, On my speakers and headphones I cant hear any fizzieness, what speakers are you listening through?
> 
> Cheers!



Just through my Mac, so that could be part of it?


----------



## TAZIN

neikeel said:


> Maybe Tazin can tell me when the shared vs split came with the trems, my impression is a little later than the leads?


 
The Super Tremolo's seem to have started the split cathode setup around the same time as the Super Lead's. It seems the split cathode style amps were produced at a much slower rate so they appear more spread out within 1968.


----------



## pleximaster

Here is the 12000 series 1968 Super Lead that will be featured next Saturday.

Someone wanted a lot of pictures!

plexi


----------



## 66SuperTremolo

Now there's a couple of Classic Road Warriors...... Beautiful 

Relic'd the RIGHT way


----------



## neikeel

Yes looks like it has seen some service, but is all there.

Only changes from original spec are the lower filtering in preamp (16+16uF where more usually 32+32, I doubt that we would hear that but Johan might 'feel' it when he plays). Other odd thing is the input grid resistors on Channel 1 which are 82k instead of 68k (as is usual and there on channel 2 grids). Was that ex-factory or just the nearest Iskra available during restoration?

Look forward to the clips


----------



## Midnight Blues

She's a beauty Plexi! Based on the back panel, looks like there was some kind of mod done? When I had my early '70s Super Lead, that's about where I had a Master Volume put. Do you know what it was?

Can't wait to hear the clip!


----------



## sct13

Where oh where did all the good pics go? I only had a chance to glance at them???


----------



## pleximaster

sct13 said:


> Where oh where did all the good pics go? I only had a chance to glance at them???




I have the pictures on photobucket and if there are too many viewers at once some don´t see them I think... try later...

plexi


----------



## 2203xman

Sorry if I missed it,but I was wondering if the '77 super bass had been featured?It didn't seem to be as popular with the masses,but it was one of my favorites.Thanks.


----------



## JohanSegeborn

Hi, no you didn't miss it will come up soon. 

Cheers!
Johan



2203xman said:


> Sorry if I missed it,but I was wondering if the '77 super bass had been featured?It didn't seem to be as popular with the masses,but it was one of my favorites.Thanks.


----------



## JohanSegeborn

The complete list of scheduled amp feature clips. 


1968, 100 watt Super Lead, model 1959 
1967, 50 Tremolo, model 1987T
1969, 100 watt Super Lead, model 1959 laydown transformer
1969, 100 watt Super Lead, model 1959 standup transformer
1971, 100 watt Super Lead, model 1959 
1966, 100 watt Super P.A. model 1968 
1967, 50 watt Lead, model 1987
1968, 100 watt Super P.A, model 1968
1977 Superbass
2005 1959HW



JohanSegeborn said:


> Hi, no you didn't miss it will come up soon.
> 
> Cheers!
> Johan


----------



## dreyn77

that's how a great 69 is supposed to sound  it's great!


----------



## JohanSegeborn

The '67 50Watt JMP in this test through 28 cabs. Riffin' and soloing (Part II of the Cab series)

Cheers

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpkmL1oQp3c"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpkmL1oQp3c[/ame]


----------



## Mosher Zone

Original video(late to the party) '67 was a good year, those amps sounded the best to my ears. Strangely I didn't really care for any of the JTM's. The 2005 amps sounded real good as did the '68 but the later 70s amps sounded a little bass heavy.


----------



## michelebis

Thank you to Johan and Pleximaster for the great thread!
I'm very interested in the 50 67 jmp circuit. 
Is it tube rectified? Is there a 100 pf bright cap on vol1?
Thank you.
Michele


----------



## neikeel

I am pretty sure it has a tube rectifier. If it is a lead amp (as the earlier description says) then it will have a 556pF mixer cap (or 560pF) a 256pF (or 250pF) treble cap in the tone stack and a 100pF cap on vol 1 pot. My '67 JMP has white rear panel and block end alloy chassis, it sounds just like this one, ie has almost as much gain as my SS rectified split cathode version '68 but slightly less treble, but playing with the EQ they can sound quite similar.


----------



## mott555

JohanSegeborn said:


> The '67 50Watt JMP in this test through 28 cabs. Riffin' and soloing (Part II of the Cab series)
> 
> Cheers
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpkmL1oQp3c



Very cool! I don't think my love of G12M's is misplaced, but the G12H's certainly have a nice edge to them. Would love to try mixing them sometime.


----------



## JohanSegeborn

Thanks! Yeah it's got a tube rectifier. Havent seen the inside of it yet but Pleximaster explained it's a really early JMP basically a JTM. 

Cheers
Johan



michelebis said:


> Thank you to Johan and Pleximaster for the great thread!
> I'm very interested in the 50 67 jmp circuit.
> Is it tube rectified? Is there a 100 pf bright cap on vol1?
> Thank you.
> Michele


----------



## michelebis

neikeel said:


> I am pretty sure it has a tube rectifier. If it is a lead amp (as the earlier description says) then it will have a 556pF mixer cap (or 560pF) a 256pF (or 250pF) treble cap in the tone stack and a 100pF cap on vol 1 pot. My '67 JMP has white rear panel and block end alloy chassis, it sounds just like this one, ie has almost as much gain as my SS rectified split cathode version '68 but slightly less treble, but playing with the EQ they can sound quite similar.



Thank you Neil.
Interesting.. 
Which transformers 1202-118, 784-128?
Or
1202-133, 784-139?


----------



## pleximaster

Transitional model early JMP50

I am on a business trip now so I can't take pictures right now.

It has a tube rectrifier , el34s, steel chassis (if i remember) gold plexi back panel low window serial number and lead? It is a screaming demon for sure. 

Ill post pictures soon and you can see it all. 

best plexi


----------



## TAZIN

pleximaster said:


> Transitional model early JMP50
> 
> I am on a business trip now so I can't take pictures right now.
> 
> It has a tube rectrifier , el34s, steel chassis (if i remember) gold plexi back panel low window serial number and lead? It is a screaming demon for sure.
> 
> Ill post pictures soon and you can see it all.
> 
> best plexi


 
If it's the amp I'm thinking of then it would be almost identical to Neikeel's amp. Features would include:
1202-118 PT.
784-128 OT.
270K mixing resistors with a 560pF bypass cap.
56K/250pF tone stack.
Single 32uF/450v preamp filter.
No bright cap on the Volume pot.
27K nfb resistor from the 16ohm tap.
Aluminum chassis with block ends.


----------



## michelebis

Thank you Tazin.
What is the difference among the two OTs?
I mean 784 139 and 784 128


----------



## TAZIN

The 784-128 has a 8 ohm, 16 ohm, and 100v secondary options whereas the 784-139 has 4 ohm, 8 ohm, and 16 ohm secondaries.


----------



## neikeel

Practically the -128 has a little more bass response but that is subjective and to my ears maybe a little more gain, but I think they do differ amp to amp


----------



## michelebis

To my ears it has a little more gain too..
But less bass


----------



## michelebis

Me too hear a little more gain and screams...


----------



## JohanSegeborn

The time has come for the mighty 68 Super Lead! 

http://youtu.be/mxEDx-68xOo

Cheers! Johan


----------



## pleximaster

While your injoying the 68...

Here are the two roadwarriers from 1969. One with lay-down MT and one with stand-up MT. The one with standup MT is recovered and the lay-down is in need of at least re ruling some parts of the vinyl, but it looks cool. The stand-up MT is not original to the amp and OT is probably also replaced. Both of them feature snubber caps and a board material associated with 1970´s metal panels. These could be plexified metal panels but the one with laydown transformer have been in my possession very long before people really did those things but who knows there is always a first... Both of them have a fat cap modd that I am responsible for. The big blue cap in the middle of the board. Makes the amp a bit more 3d sounding. These are extremely good hardrock sounding amps both 70´s and 80´s style is so easy to get perfect with these two...

plexi


----------



## 66SuperTremolo

GREAT DEMO  I can hear EVH in the tone in certain stages of the demo. Killer Rock Tones. Even at high volume that baby holds it all together perfectly. MARSHALL RULES !!!!


----------



## neikeel

I think that they are both plexified metal panels, certainly the stand up.

The laydown one has all the features of a plexi (OT, C1999 choke etc) but the long circuit board with snubbers and the woven board material suggest 70 ish.

The stand up amp was originally a Superbass too.


----------



## TAZIN

The '68 Super Lead sounded a little better this time around. Maybe because it wasn't back-to-back to other amps. Like Neil mentioned awhile back, the amp has seen some changes over the years but nothing too dramatic. Here's a little tid-bit of info that perhaps some of you don't know about....Starting in 1967 Scandinavian export amps had their main turret board layout slightly different than the other amps. The two mustard 0.022uF signal caps for the tone network (Treble, Middle, Bass) are shifted over one hole towards the preamp area on the board. In addition, the final 10K/1w B+ dropping resistor is also positioned one hole over and the resistor spans only four holes (verse the normal width of the board), and utilizes a jumper/link wire to meet up with the junction of the other 10K/1w and preamp filter cap. Marshall did this on all Scandinavian export amps from 1967 to approximately 1969 until they changed the turret board layout to match the new preamp filter location.
The two '69 Super Leads are interesting in that one originally was a Bass circuit and the other (#10910) has a '70 turrent board yet the rear panel is plexi.


----------



## pleximaster

The standup was pretty messed up on the board when I got it. Super gain-pain-drain... I am ashamed I did´t do a neater job... I think I might have put the turrets in the wrong place...  Ops...

plexi


----------



## sct13

JohanSegeborn said:


> The time has come for the mighty 68 Super Lead!
> 
> http://youtu.be/mxEDx-68xOo
> 
> Cheers! Johan



Amazing! 

That was the best one!


----------



## solarburn

JohanSegeborn said:


> The time has come for the mighty 68 Super Lead!
> 
> http://youtu.be/mxEDx-68xOo
> 
> Cheers! Johan



There it is.


----------



## Appetite4distortion

Great one! I have a question, is the V1 bright channel split cathode combo really 2,7K/0.68? I have a 69 which is 820/0.68, so I thought in 68 it was the same, before to change the 2.7K metal panel style.


----------



## michelebis

Earlier 68 is 820/0.68 
Slightly later is 2.7/0.68


----------



## metromutt

JohanSegeborn said:


> The time has come for the mighty 68 Super Lead!
> 
> http://youtu.be/mxEDx-68xOo
> 
> Cheers! Johan



Sounds great, thanks Johan. 

What spks were used H30 or 25M's?
Any attenuation? can you remember what the volumes were set at?


----------



## pleximaster

In the clip an original basketweave from 1970 with T1221 25 watters greenback were used. Hotplate at -12db. 

plexi


----------



## pleximaster

Here is another one of my 69s a Super Bass with a minor Bogner mod and a master volume (So it was´t in the shootout) It has a lot of Wimas instead of mustard caps. It was used by Doug Aldrich on Killing the dragon. 

plexi


----------



## pleximaster

Here is a youtube clip of the amp but I am sorry to say Johan this video does not really do this amp justice...  You should have played yourself!

https://youtu.be/PCINK9fLiiI 

It say 1968 Super Lead Plexi but it is a 69 Super Bass!!! 



In this interview Doug Aldridge actually mention this Bogner modded 69.

http://ronniejamesdiosite.com/NewsInterviews/Interviews/DougRockGuitar/DougAx-10-02.html

Interviewer: The same amps we talked about before?

Doug: Different amps. The other one I use a lot is a '71 Superlead that's been modded by a bunch of people over the years, and the last guy was Mark Cameron who works for Standel amps now. It's a cool amp. Sometimes those mods sound better at low volume — I don't know why — maybe they don't compress as much — but this records really well at a lower volume. I know that sounds weird! Cause those amps are known for sounding best cranked-up. And I had a couple of Bogner heads I borrowed. They were Marshall-modified Bogners actually. 

Interviewer: Oh really?

Doug: Yeah, Marshall-modified. Yeah, I had a '69 Superlead plexi that was a Bogner, and another Bogner that was a different mod. And that was a metal face — a 71 or 72 or something around there. I had a stock Super Bass plexi. And I brought a Fender Tone Master down and used that for some stuff. And a Fender Super, which I only used for one little clean part. I've got a bunch of Marshalls, but I'd love to have an array of different amps. 

plexi


----------



## JohanSegeborn

Hi!

Today it's time for the two 1969 Super Leads

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlkQTTqhoOo"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlkQTTqhoOo[/ame]


----------



## TAZIN

Those two '69 amps are just plain nasty....In a good way. Some folks complain about the "cymbal crash" type sound that these amps can have, but I'd rather have an amp that can achieve that sound and be able to dial it out rather than having an amp that can't acquire it at all. The preview for the '71 sounds like it's going to sound great. The '71 has almost that perfect balance between grit, clarity, dimension and cut that makes it a very attractive sound.


----------



## slagg

TAZIN said:


> Those two '69 amps are just plain nasty....In a good way. Some folks complain about the "cymbal crash" type sound that these amps can have, but I'd rather have an amp that can achieve that sound and be able to dial it out rather than having an amp that can't acquire it at all. The preview for the '71 sounds like it's going to sound great. The '71 has almost that perfect balance between grit, clarity, dimension and cut that makes it a very attractive sound.



My amp has that "cymbal crash"thing going on.Is it coused from too much highs??


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## solarburn

69' SL Sounds fantastic. I'd have so much fun with that tone.


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## pleximaster

I never heard of the expression cymbal crash sound but I know what you mean. This is the sound I am always looking for in a plexi. Can it do it it can do it all, you can always dial it out reducing presence, use another input, different speakers reduce gain...

These amps can be ice picky with the wrong cab and speakers. But with the right combo you have all the gain and sustain needed in these amps that do the cymbal crash sound. 

This is often lacking in the reissues and clones

Best plexi


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## Susihukkanen

Amazing tone! I would love to try these '69 SLs with my '69 Gibson SG!


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## TAZIN

slagg said:


> My amp has that "cymbal crash"thing going on.Is it coused from too much highs??


 
It is directly related to the amount of highs in the signal (via Treble and Presence), and I think it also has to do with the phase inverter becoming saturated.


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## michelebis

69 great year!


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## pleximaster

My 68´s also have this sound but are a bit rounder due to the lower filtering. These two 69´s have it to the spades, it then sort of declines in my 70´s and 71´s. 

My personal fave are the 68 and 69s much due to this sound.

plexi


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## Joshabr1

This so called cymbal crash sound would be attributed to the 680n over both v1 and 2 cathode resistors???? I've not listened to those clips but with my noodling with the circuits I've heard this when using that set up w 47k 8ohm negative feedback loop.


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## pleximaster

I don't think its just a single cap both a combo of many things as usual, but is definitely related in some way to the phase inverter as Tazin mentioned. These amps are perfect for pinch notes and controlled feedback. 

plexi


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## pleximaster

Next saturday its time for the 71 metal panel (We allowed this and the 77 super bass in even though they are not plexis, but for reference) 

Here are pictures of two of my 71 heads the one in the shoot out is the scandinavian amp with the letdown MT.

plexi


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## TAZIN

Like 'pleximaster' said it's a combination of things that creates that sound and not necessarily one particular componet.

Both '71 heads look in good shape. With the Scandinavian head you can see what I mentioned earlier about the two 10K/1w voltage dropping resistors for the preamp section not spanning the turret board width like they normally do. Instead the resistor covers approximately one half the span and then a link/jumper completes the rest. The one '69 head was setup the same way. Both of these '71 amps do not have the 0.68uF bypass cap for V2a unlike the USA versions which tend to have....Also some UK versions do too. I believe at the time the assemblers at Marshall referred to this version as an "English Lead", even though the exact specs were loosely adhered to.

@pleximaster, do you remember if the 47K nfb resistor on both of these amps is feed from the 4 ohm tap on the selector?


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## pleximaster

Sorry I never checked! Have to open them again...

The funny thing is that both amps are Scandinavian sold. But the "non-scandinavian amp" is a Danish unofficial import amp, bypassing the original distributer. They are pretty common in Denmark and they have English/German layout and one "funny" tell tail sign. - They come with an unearthed Danish power cord!!! Totally dangerous!! When I bought this 71 it still had the old unearthed plug and it had been used regularly buy a known danish band since the 70´s...

plexi


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## TAZIN

It looks like the amp (# 0096C); with the WIMA 0.1uF output coupling caps; has the 47K nfb from the 4 ohm tap but the other amp I can't tell.


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## michelebis

These were transitional years for the superlead circuit.
These heads miss the 0.68 cap on v2 like the 73 circuit and have a 47k NFB resistor and a.1
Cap on presence pot like the older ones.
71, 72, in these two years we can find almost everything...


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## Wiley Coyote

I have a French Marshall but, it keeps retreating. Just kidding!


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## sct13

JohanSegeborn said:


> Hi!
> 
> Today it's time for the two 1969 Super Leads
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlkQTTqhoOo




I am loving this thread! 

thanx for taking the time to do these. 

I was browsing your channel, and I was wondering how (what input devices) are you using to accomplish these great sounding vids (just saw the Mic vid) 

Is there another vid on your setup? 

I have a DSLR but its onboard mic is pretty crappy. I want to be able to capture my cabs with similar dynamics.


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## JohanSegeborn

Thanks! In these clips I've used an Ipad with Cubasis and an Apogee Duet. Extremely portable and practical. 

Cheers 




sct13 said:


> I am loving this thread!
> 
> thanx for taking the time to do these.
> 
> I was browsing your channel, and I was wondering how (what input devices) are you using to accomplish these great sounding vids (just saw the Mic vid)
> 
> Is there another vid on your setup?
> 
> I have a DSLR but its onboard mic is pretty crappy. I want to be able to capture my cabs with similar dynamics.


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## JohanSegeborn

And here is the 1971 Super Lead!

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8lFE2S88Jw"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8lFE2S88Jw[/ame]


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## dash8311

My favourite so far.


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## Codyjohns

JohanSegeborn said:


> And here is the 1971 Super Lead!
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8lFE2S88Jw



I really like the sound of this amp. 

Great job on all the sound clips Johan !!


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## pleximaster

This amp cuts through in a mix that is just unbelievable! It´s a great recording amp!

The 68 12000 series demonstrated earlier I personally prefer to play, as I nowadays mostly play alone (that one is smoother and has a looser feeling than this one) however the 71 amp kills it in a live band or recording situation that have a fuller mix. The 68 is great in simple a guitar - bass - drums - vocal setting as it fills out in a broader sonic spectrum. However any addition of keyboard, choir, rhythm guitar etc and the 71 works better. You'll have less after post production to do... 
Modern amps are often dialed in by their users (as they are use to set their sound alone) to fill out all frequencies at once! Resulting in a very blurry mix where noone in the band can hear themselves. 

It has happened many times I am approached by a studio recording an rock album and they can´t get the guitar to sound good in the mix with the guitarists own amps. Switching to an amp that are focused on the "guitars frequencies" often do the trick. It is a learning process for many guitarists. I know a technician who had to record the guitar tracks of every song several times using a guitarist own modern amp with boosts, his modern alone, one of my vintage Marshalls with boost and the vintage Marshall alone. He then made different mixes and the guitarist and the band had to choose the one they liked best. They ended up using only the vintage marshall and for some parts the old one with the boost. The guitar player in that band later sold his modern high gain rig...

I can add one more thing when it comes to "sound stubborn guitarist"...  Along with one or two amps that the production team think might suit the production I´ll send along 4 or five cabs with a little different sonic flavour. Then the guitarist can have his time experiencing and dialing in "his" own sound. However, the sonic range will have a totally different focus. Most of the times they will find their sound that is just perfect for them (They dialed it in) but it will be miles from what they had done using their previous gear!

plexi


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## tweedman8758

Yeah Baby! I like the '71. But then again I might be a little partial as I own one.

Great work Johan. I'm looking forward to the rest of the amps.


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## neikeel

The 71 sounds nice and dynamic, it has balance and cut that comes out well in the clips , i.e. it holds up well to being cranked. 
I think that a few of the other amps are cranked to the point of excess compression where some of the dynamics are lost, that is compounded by the relatively heavy attenuation (as already discussed). The 69s sound good - as out and out rock amps but you have to bear in mind their preamps have been modded to give a huge band width gain increase with those electrolytics on V2a so not totally representative of an original, IMO in unmoved form they should sound very similar to the '71. 
This is a great piece of work by Johan and Pleximeister, I value the original spec clips the most as points of reference.
I look forwards to hearing the 66 JTM45/100 clips for more personal reasons


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## Coronado

Damn, that sounds amazing... Your playing was fantastic and IMO really made that amp shine. Fantastic! Thank you for putting this together!!


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## pleximaster

This is next weeks candidate! It was at one point modded but has been restored to its former glory by forum member Neikeel!!! Thanks for a great work!

plexi







'


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## JohanSegeborn

Hi! This week's amp - The JTM 45/100 Super PA from 1966

http://youtu.be/XNmWzTM9TIw


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## neikeel

JohanSegeborn said:


> Hi! This week's amp - The JTM 45/100 Super PA from 1966
> 
> http://youtu.be/XNmWzTM9TIw


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## pleximaster

This amp was modded and restored by Neikeel. Neikeel feel free to tell all you know about this amp and what the restoration was all about! 

Plexi


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## Ufoscorpion

As stated by most , great sounding amps . Pleasantly surprised how good the superbass amps sounded , super pa's as well .


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## neikeel

As you will see from Pete Hartley's engraving he hot rodded it in the mid 80s. When it came to me it was not working and IIRC had a set of dead 6L6s.
It had a 70s 1 1/2" Dagnall OT and the preamp board you see above. I simply removed all the non-stock stuff used NOS parts from my stash. I used a correct 2" Merren handwound OT, and reformed the caps.

Interestingly the back panel has two extra output jacks (labeled 1 & 2). Although I had not seen them before they do look like factory markings.

As I wanted channels 1and 2 to be like a stock JTM45/100 (without the usually unused channels 3 & 4 influencing the tone) I added a 560pF mixer bypass cap to channel 1, but no bright cap on the pot, disconnecting V1 grid wire.
I then took the grid wire out from V1 (channels 3 & 4 on front panel) to the spare jacks on the back panel and the grid wire out from the jacks to the other mixers (at a point where the V1 grid wire usually goes). So now if you want to use all 4 channels you simply put a short patch lead in the rear jacks, but if you want stock 45/100 leave the jack out and just use inputs 1 and 2. I reformed the caps over 24hrs using Larry (Novosibir on Metro) technique and had to chase down a couple of ground loops (see the extra grounds on the PT).
I used the Gold Lion KT66s as they seem capable of handling the B+ of the PT and sound very close to my own GEC KT66s.
It is nice to hear Johan putting it through its paces


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## TAZIN

That's one thick sounding amp. That additional 560pF mixer bypass cap gives it just enough high end to keep the amp from sounding too muddy. Those huge-ass transformers are always a sight to behold.

@neikeel
Is the Merren OT his 1202-84 clone? As always, your restoration work is top notch.


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## pleximaster

Hi Neikeel!

I'd love if you would considering doing the restoration of my 200 Pig!?

I could send you the amp and parts!

Best plexi


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## neikeel

pleximaster said:


> Hi Neikeel!
> I'd love if you would considering doing the restoration of my 200 Pig!?
> I could send you the amp and parts!
> Best plexi



Sounds like fun, but I must state that I have not worked on a Major before!


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## pleximaster

Neither have i!!! 

plexi


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## neikeel

Now these I know I can do:


pleximaster said:


> HORROR!!!! Former 1967 Blackflag! Now ASS 100W...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> plexi


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## 66SuperTremolo

Can only think of one word - MORON

With limited production, another Rare Beauty is Rapped beyond recognition. Those clean stock originals just got rarer by one !


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## neikeel

I can restore that amp quite easily, assuming the transformers are stock. I have most of the missing parts or ones to match.

The only big issue is the holes in the plexi panels.

I enjoy a challenge!


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## pleximaster

That one is restored by me!!! Not as nice as your work but... I did manage to find on original window back panel... That one wasn't free though...

Plexi


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## pleximaster

This week's plexi amp


https://youtu.be/0vlYliCt390

Plexi


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## neikeel

Nice clean amp! Sounds strong too (at least on my Mac speakers!)
The JMPs with tube rectifier and 139OT are quite rare


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## pleximaster

http://youtu.be/68U4RjXEYXI


Here are one more long clip!!! Enjoy!

Plexi


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## neikeel

Love the fuzz, saturation and sustain in the low end and the way it still keeps the attack and clarity on the higher notes.

I agree with another comment, sounds as if it is about to blow up


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## pleximaster

When my major 200 are restored (the pig and pig PA 200) are restored Johan and I plan "another 15 plexi amp shootout"!

Any suggestions how to improve over the last one?

Plexi


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## TAZIN

I think you guys did a great job on the last shootout.
Suggestions:
1). If your going to do the pictorial on the circuitry of each amp then try to leave each snapshot up long enough so people can digest them....Much like you were doing towards the end of the first shootout. For some reason people have a phobia of the pause button.
2). Try to keep the videos about the same length. In the first shootout the videos became shorter towards the end.
3). Possibly post the amp setting for each amp.
4). Keep a good mix of rhythm (chords), soloing, and arpeggio in the videos so folks can get the full tonal palette of the amp. Also, if time allows try to add some quieter passages (light pick attack) and maybe some stuff with the guitar volume rolled back to show how the amp cleans up.


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## pleximaster

Great suggestions!!!

Should we use the same 1970 cab and include one or two amps from the last shootout? 

best plexi


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## pleximaster

"Another 15 Marshall Shootout"...

This is the list what we hope to demo, some are on the workbench...

1967 Marshall 200 ”the Pig” Major 200 watt KT88
1967 Marshall 200 ”the Pig PA” Major 200 watt KT88
1967 JTM Black Flag 50 watt KT66
1967-68 JMP Super Lead 100 watt ”total rebuilt”
1968 JMP Super Lead 100 watt
1975 JMP Super Lead 100 watt Transition model "Last of the laydowns, scandinavian model"
1969 JMP Super Tremolo 100 watt plexi panel
1970 JMP Super Lead 100 watt Metal face
1972 JMP 50 watt red Metal face
1971 JMP 50 watt white Metal face
1969 JMP Super bass 100 watt plexi panel
1967 JMP 50 watt 
1971 JMP 100 watt Super lead Metal face
1965 JTM45/100 100 watt lead 
2012 YJM 100 watt Metal face modern reference

plexi


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## shooto

pleximaster said:


> "Another 15 Marshall Shootout"...
> 
> This is the list what we hope to demo, some are on the workbench...
> 
> 1967 Marshall 200 ”the Pig” Major 200 watt KT88
> 1967 Marshall 200 ”the Pig PA” Major 200 watt KT88
> 1967 JTM Black Flag 50 watt KT66
> 1967-68 JMP Super Lead 100 watt ”total rebuilt”
> 1968 JMP Super Lead 100 watt
> 1975 JMP Super Lead 100 watt Transition model "Last of the laydowns, scandinavian model"
> 1969 JMP Super Tremolo 100 watt plexi panel
> 1970 JMP Super Lead 100 watt Metal face
> 1972 JMP 50 watt red Metal face
> 1971 JMP 50 watt white Metal face
> 1969 JMP Super bass 100 watt plexi panel
> 1967 JMP 50 watt
> 1971 JMP 100 watt Super lead Metal face
> 1965 JTM45/100 100 watt lead
> 2012 YJM 100 watt Metal face modern reference
> 
> plexi



^ that made me squirt a little


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## Codyjohns

Lookin' forward to hearing the Majors.


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## TAZIN

pleximaster said:


> Great suggestions!!!
> 
> Should we use the same 1970 cab and include one or two amps from the last shootout?
> 
> best plexi


 
Sure, I think the 1970 cab is a good choice for this shootout also. In addition, adding one or two amps from the first shootout would be fine too.

In the first shootout you played a particular rhythm piece (or variations of it) on all fifteen videos which was good since it allowed the listener to gauge the differences between each amp. I hope in this next shootout you can do the same.


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## Codyjohns

I would love to demo these amps.
Damn, I wish I lived closer.


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## IronMaidenNutter

That Paul Kossoff Super Bass sounds insane... 

That 2005 hw sounds different from my new 1959hw though... I think all amps that are even the same models quite often have a slight difference.


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## strato2009

Can you leave out the power attentuator from the next vid?


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## sct13

I think he might have neighbors whom he doesn't want to completely piss off. ???

But I would be for that as well....but not at the expense of his glassware....


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## pleximaster

That would be up to Johan.. 

If you watch his youtube channel you will see that Johan way of doing demos, is to always be part of the set, sitting and jamming fully visible, showing all the gear; guitar, amp, speaker cables, microphones etc... So if he wants to sit casual a few foot in front of a 100 watter or even a 200 watter you have to ask him. 

It also changes a bit on how to mic the amp and room. 

plexi


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## Taupe

Hi there nice topic !!.
Is it possible to have pictures from the "Super Kossof Bass" ?
Did you know if this amp is stock or did it have some modif ?

Tkx a lot 

Taupe.


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## pleximaster

Here are pics of the Fraiser/Kossoff amp. It is a heavily gigged amp and both transformers are replaced, one old standup Dagnell (mounted laydown) and an Drake HiFi Output transformer. Their tech used what ever they could get their hands on. The amp was stolen from the band at one time and when retured the serial number had been cut out. When I got the amp I didn´t know about the Free connection and replaced the backpanel with an old one with a serial number with period correct serial number ( I had had this panel in my parts stach for a long time since the time people removed the from super bass amps and replacing them with super lead panels) as my intentions were to restore it fully with original transformers and stuff. I then found out about the amp used belonged to the Free and did´t want to change any more. The amp sounds exceptionally good with all changed parts.

plexi


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## Taupe

Thanks a lot !! For me this Head is my "plexi" Head sound so if i find a superbass or lead model i probably try this "Kossof" Mod

Tkx a lot ;o)


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## Taupe

Many thanks 
Tkx a lot !!
and continue this tread so amazing ;o)


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## 66SuperTremolo

Be interesting to hear (you may not have one available) an old Orange 1970 / 71 / 72 cab loaded with the Greenbacks vs same era Marshall cab. The Orange being slightly different dimensionally how they compare tonally.


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