# Doug Aldrich Tone



## Goosey

I know, I know, I shouldn't be imitating other players tones but i've been trying to get a Doug Aldrich tone for ages, a really thick, smooth tone. Does anyone have any pointers? I'm using a TSL100 with a 1960BX Cab (Same cab as Doug). He uses modded plexi's so I know im not gonna get a perfect tone but what would you guys reckon for eq's?


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## captcoolaid

What pups are you using. And your right Doug's tone is sick as shit.


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## HOT TUBES 70

I see he runs a custom made OD pedal infront of his plexi to help with his tone , I have the White Snake DVD from England , not only is a great player, but man his tone !!!! over the top !!

Are you running any OD or Boost Pedals or all amp ?


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## Goosey

I'm using a Les Paul with Seymour Duncan Alnico Pro Slash's \m/ On Whitesnakes new Album "Forevermore" Doug does a solo at the end of a song called "Easier said than done" and his tone is astonishing, along with his vibrato its unbeatable.


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## Goosey

I currently dont use any pedals aas it is a high gain amp but I am looking at a BBE Green Screamer. The solo he does on the live in London DVD is insane. Would love one of his plexis


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## HOT TUBES 70

Goosey said:


> I currently dont use any pedals aas it is a high gain amp but I am looking at a BBE Green Screamer. The solo he does on the live in London DVD is insane. Would love one of his plexis



The BBE Green Screamer is pretty good , that would work fine as a hot boost , i'm kinda partial to the Boss SD1 super Overdrive , just cause they can be modified for great tone with very little work imo .

Have you heard any of Doug,s work with House of Lords ?


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## matt3310

Live Doug used a 89 Les Paul Goldtop with stock pickups, a JTM100 head modded with a effects loop, master volume and the channels jumpered. Other than that it was stock. Stock 1960BX cab. Cranked the shit out of it!! Pedals used were a MXR Overdrive, Boss Chorus CH5, Exotic EP booster, MXR phase 90, Crybaby wah.

I talked to him extensivly about his rig and tone just about a month ago!


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## Goosey

matt3310: I thought he used the Suhr Doug Aldrich pickups in all his guitars?
HOT TUBES 70: I tried the SD-1 but wasnt happy, it was rather muddy. I was looking at the Green Screamer because im quite a blues/classic rock guitarist so I wanted a warm sustain that I can also get some Gary Moore stuff out of. I found on my TSL100 if on the crunch channel I give it some gain (8ish) drop the mids back, crack the bass and leave the treble around 6 its nice and thick whilst still clear and toneful, also neck pup (of course). Works wonders for the outro solo of "Easier said than Done"


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## matt3310

He may use those in some guitars, but his Goldtop he played the most had stock Gibson pickups. Or so he said.


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## HOT TUBES 70

My money's on the good stuff IMO !! 

Hard to get that kinda tone on stock pick ups etc etc .......but who knows right ???


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## thetragichero

it's all in the hat, jack daniels, cigarettes, and good quality black tar


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## crossroadsnyc

I love Doug Aldrich ... one of my top five favorites, no doubt. 

One thing I'd suggest is to watch out that you're not dropping your mids too much (you mentioned rolling them back). His tone is very thick, which includes a heavy helping of strong mids ... in fact, I'd keep them dialed up pretty high. Of course, your EQ will vary a bit from stage to stage/venue to venue/room to room, but I wouldn't roll them off (if that's what your'e doing) ... Doug does not have a scooped tone, which is what rolling off the mids will do. 

As for the overdrive pedal, I was under the impression he was still using his custom made Majik Box Rocket Fuel Pedal, no?: 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBtGV_tWcp8&feature=player_embedded]YouTube - ‪Doug Aldrich talks about the new Majik Box Rocket Fuel pedal‬&rlm;[/ame]

Majik Box USA - Custom Pedals and Elecctronics. Tools for Tone.

As for amps, I'm fairly sure he still uses Cameron Modded Marshall heads, as well as Vintage Moderns (I believe the 2466) ... though, I don't think you'll have a problem getting a very passable tone w/your TSL. 

By the way, I'm surprised to read that you found the SD-1 to be muddy ... are you using the overdrive pedal to push an already dirty amp, or are you using the pedal as a main source of overdrive/distortion? What volume levels are we talking about here? 

If you're using the SD-1 at low volume, and as a source of the overdrive itself, then yes, it'll sound pretty lousy. However, if you're using it as a boost to just further overdrive the amp, it should sound terrific ... I find they really tighten things up, and bring far more clarity to the tone, rather than mud. 

Whatever the case, the situation in which it'll be used will help determine what kind of pedal you may or may not need ... some are best used at gigging volume, while some are best used in the bedroom for just simulating a bigger sound for practicing/having fun at home/etc.


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## matt3310

Heres his amp and back up JMD1 amp.


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## Goosey

I apologise crossroadsnyc, I was using a Boss OD-3 which sounds like complete s*!t.I'm using it on top of a fairly driven amp so its more of a sustain and smooth tone i'm going for. I will have to try the SD-1 next time im at the music shop. I'll give it a crack with the mids a bit higher too, see how she goes.


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## matt3310




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## John 14:6

Doug Aldrich playing his song "West Coast" here is about as good as it gets when it comes to perfect tone. I find myself trying to dial in something like this all of the time.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7U4w44qxFw&feature=player_embedded]YouTube - ‪Doug Aldrich - Westcoast‬&rlm;[/ame]


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## HOT TUBES 70

Killer song ! and what great tone !!! i can see why you are trying to dial that tone in .......
Thanks for posting that !!!!


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## HOT TUBES 70

I hate to also point out the obvious .....but the dude's got the "Hands" if ya know what i mean !! alot of his tone starts there .......the rest is gravy !!!!!!!



signed : Captain Obvious !!!


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## NewReligion

Great Pics Matt. Thanks for posting.


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## Goosey

Ohhhh thats some nice tone. I also agree its in the hands, hes very distinctive and sounds like only himself. One thing I have noticed in a few players is thick fingers = thick tone (excluding EVH) but just my input


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## CMC

NewReligion said:


> Great Pics Matt. Thanks for posting.


 
Agreed. Thanks, Matt. 

Nice info about his rig, too. Sounds like a pretty strait-forward set up. That guy is a freaking monster


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## crossroadsnyc

John 14:6 said:


> Doug Aldrich playing his song "West Coast" here is about as good as it gets when it comes to perfect tone. I find myself trying to dial in something like this all of the time.
> 
> YouTube - ‪Doug Aldrich - Westcoast‬&rlm;



Yeah, I love that song. Great tone right there.


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## crossroadsnyc

matt3310 said:


> Heres his amp and back up JMD1 amp.



Out of curiosity, in the event that he needs it, did he mention which amp model he's using on the JMD1?


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## matt3310

crossroadsnyc said:


> Out of curiosity, in the event that he needs it, did he mention which amp model he's using on the JMD1?



No, he never said anything about it. All we talked about was the JTM, and a few of my amps and guitars. I wish now I would have asked him about it. Normally if a amp isn't all tube, I wont mess with it, but since he had one I got curious about it. I'd like to hear one!


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## Username2

crossroadsnyc said:


> Out of curiosity, in the event that he needs it, did he mention which amp model he's using on the JMD1?


 
Its a JMD1/100. Doug loves the amp, nice to see some big players warming up to it.


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## tonyl

lovely pictures, wow! 

pretty much what the previous members said. i think that he uses in all his guitar his new signature pickups but after reading all the tread didnt know his goldtop has stock.

amazing guitar player. i always love they way he frets. i mean how he use his thump behind the neck and solo. truly amazing.
have a nice day 






i love this video 

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4PL45M1f-8"]YouTube - ‪Doug Aldrich Solo Live In Roseland Ballroom 2002 (Dio)‬&rlm;[/ame]


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## crossroadsnyc

nuke said:


> Its a JMD1/100. Doug loves the amp, nice to see some big players warming up to it.



Yes, I know what amp it is. My question pertained to the model he is using w/in the amp itself (since it's a digital modeler pre-amp).


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## RazorDave

Check @ 2:50, sounds like he uses the "Rocket Fuel," as a stand alone distortion? If so, thats interesting and different. What say you guys?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ULXqNy8h0s[/ame]


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## Goosey

I heard it too but surely to get the smoothness and sustain he gets he'd have to crank the marshall?


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## Strateuphoria

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOwd30wXc-0]YouTube - ‪Whitesnake - Love Will Set You Free‬&rlm;[/ame]

check it out, love it


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## Goosey

Strateuphoria, have you heard the new album? Theres a song called "Easier said than Done" and at the end Doug does a simple but astonishing solo, really shows his tone!


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## MeanOnWaves

Woho, nice! Thanks for the pics!
Hello there guys! I'm new here!!


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## chuckharmonjr

Welcome aboard MoW.


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## JTyson

crossroadsnyc said:


> I love Doug Aldrich ... one of my top five favorites, no doubt.
> 
> One thing I'd suggest is to watch out that you're not dropping your mids too much (you mentioned rolling them back). His tone is very thick, which includes a heavy helping of strong mids ... in fact, I'd keep them dialed up pretty high. Of course, your EQ will vary a bit from stage to stage/venue to venue/room to room, but I wouldn't roll them off (if that's what your'e doing) ... Doug does not have a scooped tone, which is what rolling off the mids will do.
> 
> As for the overdrive pedal, I was under the impression he was still using his custom made Majik Box Rocket Fuel Pedal, no?:
> 
> YouTube - ‪Doug Aldrich talks about the new Majik Box Rocket Fuel pedal‬&rlm;
> 
> Majik Box USA - Custom Pedals and Elecctronics. Tools for Tone.
> 
> As for amps, I'm fairly sure he still uses Cameron Modded Marshall heads, as well as Vintage Moderns (I believe the 2466) ... though, I don't think you'll have a problem getting a very passable tone w/your TSL.
> 
> By the way, I'm surprised to read that you found the SD-1 to be muddy ... are you using the overdrive pedal to push an already dirty amp, or are you using the pedal as a main source of overdrive/distortion? What volume levels are we talking about here?
> 
> If you're using the SD-1 at low volume, and as a source of the overdrive itself, then yes, it'll sound pretty lousy. However, if you're using it as a boost to just further overdrive the amp, it should sound terrific ... I find they really tighten things up, and bring far more clarity to the tone, rather than mud.
> 
> Whatever the case, the situation in which it'll be used will help determine what kind of pedal you may or may not need ... some are best used at gigging volume, while some are best used in the bedroom for just simulating a bigger sound for practicing/having fun at home/etc.



I have had one of these for around a year, its a great pedal. The voicing switch works amazingly well, the center position is really clear and open.
I dont use the extra boost, it seems to be a bit much
Its a little pricey, but its a great pedal for Marshalls


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## suhr

matt3310 said:


> Heres his amp and back up JMD1 amp.



That top amp is the original that I modified for Doug.
He has two of those amps, same mod.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXr1TDzViBk&feature=player_embedded#!
Funny enough I just chatted with Doug today about these Whitesnake and Dio clips (one above) and this was his response below. I'm going to try and hook up with Doug this year so we can make something that will be available 
___

Hi John,

That amp is my main amp that has the original Lead Mod you did before the last update adding the whomp. 

Live, I have ALWAYs used that amp solely.

Talk soon
Doug


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## wreckingball

Welcome suhr...


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## newbies

Hes such a great guitarist, seems like a good guy too in all the vids and lessons he has done, watch some of them lots of great tips on rock guitar!!

Has anyone ever tried his sig pickups?


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## Dave666

I once heard him playing through his Goldtop unplugged and he sounded just the same as with an amplifier. Hard to explain, but his vibrato and feel on that guitar were HIS sound. So anyone can come close using the same gear as he does, but only Doug can sound like him through any gear that's out there!!


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## Redders

I was driving home from work yesterday with the 'Good to be Bad' album blasting. Sounds amazing cranked, some quality tone and riffs


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## Username2

crossroadsnyc said:


> Yes, I know what amp it is. My question pertained to the model he is using w/in the amp itself (since it's a digital modeler pre-amp).


 
He uses #13 most of the time.


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## DeLorean

newbies said:


> Hes such a great guitarist, seems like a good guy too in all the vids and lessons he has done, watch some of them lots of great tips on rock guitar!!
> 
> Has anyone ever tried his sig pickups?



I'm currently using a set of the Suhr Aldrich pickups in my 2008 LP Standard - I love them - a massive difference over the Burstbuckers that came with the guitar. Great bite, harmonics and growl, I wouldn't go back now!


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## zachman

Goosey said:


> I know, I know, I shouldn't be imitating other players tones but i've been trying to get a Doug Aldrich tone for ages, a really thick, smooth tone. Does anyone have any pointers? I'm using a TSL100 with a 1960BX Cab (Same cab as Doug). He uses modded plexi's so I know im not gonna get a perfect tone but what would you guys reckon for eq's?



Nope...

Mark Cameron, and John Suhr modded his amps, and has a few amps commercially available.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TUWAGhm47g&feature=relmfu"]Cameron ReMix - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgJokXZireE&feature=related"]Cameron Amplifiers at the 2011 LA Amp Show - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0wI0lH5V-0"]Cameron "Atomica" Modded Marshall Plexi - El Capistan Delay - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZk22XeLBLM"]Cameron "Atomica" Modded Marshall Plexi (Dry) - YouTube[/ame]

OR

Send your amp to John Suhr and have him mod it

OR

Consider

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGErfbbJOqg[/ame]


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## Goosey

First of all there is no way I could afford any of that and second, I have the tone I want now which is thick as anything and sounds amazing to my ears.


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## Strateuphoria

Eddie could do with some tone lessons and tips from Doug, these days


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## zachman

Goosey said:


> First of all there is no way I could afford any of that and second, I have the tone I want now which is thick as anything and sounds amazing to my ears.





My Bad... I thought you were trying to figure out... How to get that tone.



Goosey said:


> I know, I know, I shouldn't be imitating other players tones but i've been trying to get a Doug Aldrich tone for ages, a really thick, smooth tone. Does anyone have any pointers? I'm using a TSL100 with a 1960BX Cab (Same cab as Doug). He uses modded plexi's so I know im not gonna get a perfect tone but what would you guys reckon for eq's?



Depends on how close "Close enough" is to you, re: whether or not an eq w/ a TSL will get you there. Imo, no, or Doug wouldn't have to mod his amps to get there.

Best of luck...


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## Goosey

Cheers Zachman, i'm just trying to get that thickness he has (achieved with the orange channel and a BBE Green Screamer). I'm still struggling to to get that growl but I think that would be in the mods.


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## crossroadsnyc

suhr said:


> That top amp is the original that I modified for Doug.
> He has two of those amps, same mod.
> Whitesnake DVD - 08 Doug Aldrich solo - YouTube!
> Funny enough I just chatted with Doug today about these Whitesnake and Dio clips (one above) and this was his response below. I'm going to try and hook up with Doug this year so we can make something that will be available
> ___
> 
> Hi John,
> 
> That amp is my main amp that has the original Lead Mod you did before the last update adding the whomp.
> 
> Live, I have ALWAYs used that amp solely.
> 
> Talk soon
> Doug



Thanks for the straight scoop ... welcome to the forum, man!


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## crossroadsnyc

nuke said:


> He uses #13 most of the time.



Which one is #13?


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## dreyn77

just caught up with doug on utube talking about gear for whitesnake, he used his fav 1979 jmp, vintage modern, and 1959rr. (only borrowed the RR, "that thing was shakin' my house"). The TSL has a low impedance tone control circuit (low current force to the volts) so your sound will be more defined, more sharper in the harmonics and flat. if you want the standard 79 jmp 'gain' sound then you have to put in bigger transformers. they make the force of the sound from the speakers. If dougs borrowed RR was shaking the house then I bet dougs 79 jmp is a stock, and possibly a 50 watt. and running it with a 'high impedance' amp pedal. (boosts, overdrives, distortions are all amplifiers) this is cause the many amp circuits that go into the 'head', they are all high current (impedance). his pickups are passive High current voltage as well. close to 'stock' PAF's. try the stock ones first! the JMD 1 has 'low impedance' amp circuits at the tone, volume, gain (etc...) controls. think "flat sound, no headroom, brutal definition, ear hurting harmonics. 'modern sound' (JMD 1) and 'real' sound (JMP). think deafness, lawsuits, electrical bills, thin notes. you get the picture? THE GUITAR TELLS THE AMP WHAT TO DO! you 'must' have the guitar body 'wood', the carved (or flat) top, the ('gibson') bridge, pickups, the amp pedals, the amp head, the speakers! then you'll be close! if not you'll have a nice imitation of ...... (insert fav guitar player). These are not negotiable! P.S. (vibratio) doug uses high fret wire this makes vibratio much easier (the 'best' is scollop fretboards)


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## S.A.T.O.

Tone has always been a combination of gear, a players hands and how he convey's what he's trying to say on the instrument. I'm sure you could give Doug Aldrich a shitty little practice amp to play through and he'd still steam...LIKE THIS!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFGnsuq6lt4&feature=related]Doug Aldrich from Whitesnake warming up - YouTube[/ame]


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## zachman

S.A.T.O. said:


> Tone has always been a combination of gear, a players hands and how he convey's what he's trying to say on the instrument. I'm sure you could give Doug Aldrich a shitty little practice amp to play through and he'd still steam...LIKE THIS!
> 
> Doug Aldrich from Whitesnake warming up - YouTube




Definitely a fantastic player who no doubt, could rip through a crap amp, yet he chooses (for a reason), the gear he does-- despite those who would argue tone is in the fingers.


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## Quasar-Kid

This entire thread has BLOWN MY (fucking) MIND...


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## zachman

Quasar-Kid said:


> This entire thread has BLOWN MY (fucking) MIND...



Whatchya mean??


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## dreyn77

fingers? they are behind the fret! the vibrations go through the string, throught the fret or nut to the wood and through the 'bridge' component. (no fingers there) just string, fret, bridge and wood material makes 'TONE'. pickups make voltage. fingers hold plectrums or push down strings. so fingers either pluck strings or shorten the length of the vibrating string. SO everybodies tone is copyable! 

The guitar tells the amp what voltage to make!

you can add or change the voltage and current to get all tones!  

You are amplifying the 'jerks' from your body.

that means DRUMMERS rule and guitarists are 'JERKS'


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## zachman

dreyn77 said:


> fingers? they are behind the fret! the vibrations go through the string, throught the fret or nut to the wood and through the 'bridge' component. (no fingers there) *just string, fret, bridge and wood material makes 'TONE'. *



NOT without the players involvement, starting the process, and the listener there to perceive it.



dreyn77 said:


> pickups make voltage. fingers hold plectrums or push down strings. so fingers either pluck strings or shorten the length of the vibrating string. SO everybodies tone is copyable!



Only to the degree that you can cop a given players' technique, feel/touch and style-- as they ALL also impact "Tone", AND by having the gear which provides the particular characteristics AND by knowing how to set it up/Route it, and engineer it (Dial in the sounds).




dreyn77 said:


> The guitar tells the amp what voltage to make!



The players dynamic touch is also an integral part of that equation too. 




dreyn77 said:


> you can add or change the voltage and current to get all tones!



Only if the gear you have can actually produce the elements one is seeking in the 1st place. 




dreyn77 said:


> You are amplifying the 'jerks' from your body.



No, actually you're amplifying and manipulating the signal the guitar produces, when played by a player. Without the player's participation-- no tone.




dreyn77 said:


> that means DRUMMERS rule and guitarists are 'JERKS'



Drummers rule nothing... They're hired to beat shit with sticks in time-- that's all. AND... if they don't-- it's likely the guitarist who will dismiss them, SO Guitarists RULE. lol

So why do drummers not just play on kitty litter buckets instead of REAL drums??? The same reason guitarists choose preferred gear over others. The tones various gear make possible varies-- with the same hands, mind you-- that's why. Drums included.


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## Quasar-Kid

Bingo Zachman, 
You show me a drummer who complains about tweaky guitar plays 
and I'll show you a drummer with a sh!t kit that doesn't know how to tune his snare


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## zachman

Quasar-Kid said:


> Bingo Zachman,
> You show me a drummer who complains about tweaky guitar plays
> and I'll show you a drummer with a sh!t kit that doesn't know how to tune his snare



hehehehe

Better still, I'll show you one who can't play to a click track to save their life, and NO idea how to create a pocket.


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## dreyn77

hahaha good reply! I think i'll take up volin, too many 'serious' people in here. If I'm going to hang out with serious people then I should be in with the 'serious' musicians. besides their gear is worth $Millions!


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## zachman

dreyn77 said:


> hahaha good reply! I think i'll take up volin, too many 'serious' people in here. If I'm going to hang out with serious people then I should be in with the 'serious' musicians. besides their gear is worth $Millions!



What about the Baritone, or Tenor Kazoo, or the Biphonic Zeet


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## Goosey

Sorry to bring it back up but...
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISEcaiAfx00&feature=g-vrec]Doug Aldrich (Young Guitar) - YouTube[/ame]


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## SuperBeaver

I saw them on the 2004 tour. It was incredible. Saw the Snakes in 94 with Vandenberg and Warren De Martini it sucked. 

Doug is the absolute fucking man. And has injected a huge Lease of life into the band.

That Hammersmith DVD is great, even if David's vocals were all re-done in the studio.


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## Led4thehed2

A LOT OF BASS! 

The "Evil or Devine" live CD he did with DIO in New York from 2003 is just loaded with bass. I have to turn the bass down just to listen to that album.


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## zachman

Led4thehed2 said:


> A LOT OF BASS!
> 
> The "Evil or Devine" live CD he did with DIO in New York from 2003 is just loaded with bass. I have to turn the bass down just to listen to that album.



You credit Doug for that, or the album producer?


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## albertlespaul

The new Whitesnake records kick ass and Doug Aldrich is my favourite guitar player right now, I love his tone.


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## hellride

Sorry but I think Doug's sound is terrible.
He's a GREAT guitarplayer and I love his playing in both Lion and Whitesnake but that sound...no, I don't like it.
He demoed the Marshall Randy Rhoads series on NAMM(?) and it sucked!!!
I mean, those amps are pretty sweet and the sound he got was all mushy and uber-electric with NO string separation.
But then again, it's only my opinion


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## Goosey

It is a very particular tone. It's you either love it or hate it. I understand where you're coming from though.


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## albertlespaul

The Orange Dark Terror and the Gibson Gold Top Traditional tend to sound like Doug's tone in this video, the reason i ordered the Dark Terror

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wNOK-JoXHc]The Ultimate Orange Tiny Terror Shoot Out (Studio Quality Demo) - YouTube[/ame]
Dark Terror demo starts at 14:19, with a little talking about it and then some cleans... then distortion starts at 15:43...


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## dreyn77

When Doug demoed the 1959rr it was attenuated. What is the best 'Doug' recorded tone? is it the 'live' WS dvd? the studio tracks? He says the first one wasn't great, but what do you think? I am nervous for Doug taking on the job in WS, others have not lasted long! (and $dollars have not come there way). What's he going to do next? Go SOLO?


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## albertlespaul

dreyn77 said:


> When Doug demoed the 1959rr it was attenuated. What is the best 'Doug' recorded tone? is it the 'live' WS dvd? the studio tracks? He says the first one wasn't great, but what do you think? I am nervous for Doug taking on the job in WS, others have not lasted long! (and $dollars have not come there way). What's he going to do next? Go SOLO?



In my opinion Doug's best tones are on Forevermore and Good To Be Bad... taking the WS job was his best decision as his best work is on those records and now he is the longest standing guitar player in the band along with Reb, nobody lasted 10 years, and he is still going. I believe both records have great tones and the difference is little between them, I like Forevermore a little more...

I always think that they should be listened at least in CD quality and from start to the end as all songs are more than decent and some shine very beautifully.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iklmDRRDw5o]Whitesnake - Best Years - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUaYP7Zy914]Whitesnake - 02 Can You Hear the Wind Blow - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tcv9QLhu9vg]Whitesnake - I Need You (Shine A Light) - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1_KJxqAhn4]Whitesnake - Forevermore - YouTube[/ame]


His work before WS it's good, but his stuff with WS is so much better, amazing, his tone is a lot better. Doug Aldrich is one of the very few guitar players that have reached their peak in their 40s.

WS is pause this year but next year they will tour again and maybe they will record one more record, depends if David Coverdale voice will still be good enough, he sounds great for his age on those records.

Personally, Good To Be Bad and Forevermore are my favourites of all time before Aerosmith Rocks and Led Zeppelin IV. They are high quality Blues Hard Rock albums, diverse (with rockers like Best Years, ballads like Summer Rain, acoustic songs like 'Til The End Of Time and 7 minutes songs like Forevermore)


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## SuperBeaver

dreyn77 said:


> When Doug demoed the 1959rr it was attenuated. What is the best 'Doug' recorded tone? is it the 'live' WS dvd? the studio tracks? He says the first one wasn't great, but what do you think? I am nervous for Doug taking on the job in WS, others have not lasted long! (and $dollars have not come there way). What's he going to do next? Go SOLO?




Man, Doug has been in Whitesnake since 2003. That's like 9 years ago. I think he's doing' just fine. Like or dislike his tone, great player and super cool guy


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## SuperBeaver

albertlespaul said:


> The Orange Dark Terror and the Gibson Gold Top Traditional tend to sound like Doug's tone in this video, the reason i ordered the Dark Terror
> 
> The Ultimate Orange Tiny Terror Shoot Out (Studio Quality Demo) - YouTube
> Dark Terror demo starts at 14:19, with a little talking about it and then some cleans... then distortion starts at 15:43...




Beavis and Butthead again...


----------



## zachman

SuperBeaver said:


> Man, Doug has been in Whitesnake since 2003. That's like 9 years ago. I think he's doing' just fine. Like or dislike his tone, great player and super cool guy


Some guys like *dreyn77 *just like to complain and argue, to stir crap sometimes-- at least that's how it appears to me. You know, as the saying goes-- haters hate.

Personally, if someone doesn't like a particular flavor of ice cream-- their opinion doesn't impact mine at all. Just sayin...


----------



## geese_com

I blame Doug Aldrich for me joining the Marshall Forum. I am really dying to pick up a Marshall.


----------



## Wycked Lester

i gonna just say it.....

and i know you know this,.... but dude, 99% of that awesome tone is comming out of his hands/fingers .... period.

I know this point is one of the most debated,.... a masterdebated subject if you will.....
But all i can say is this.....

Doug is gonna have 'give or take' the same tone going on no matter what,.... im sure VERY VERY few people could tell the difference between doug playing a sweet amp or if he was using an axfex,.... or a MG 50 or whatever in a 'blind' listening test.....

however, on the otherhand.....

*You* Can Not *Buy* _That_ Tone.


----------



## Wycked Lester

ill add this too,... its no wonder that its hard to understand,....

Guys like doug are SOOOO good, that they can play like that AND make it look so easy that it makes it seem like you too should be able to just,..'sound like that'


----------



## zachman

Wycked Lester said:


> i gonna just say it.....
> 
> and i know you know this,.... but dude, 99% of that awesome tone is comming out of his hands/fingers .... period.
> 
> I know this point is one of the most debated,.... a masterdebated subject if you will.....
> But all i can say is this.....
> 
> Doug is gonna have 'give or take' the same tone going on no matter what,.... im sure VERY VERY few people could tell the difference between doug playing a sweet amp or if he was using an axfex,.... or a MG 50 or whatever in a 'blind' listening test.....
> 
> however, on the otherhand.....
> 
> *You* Can Not *Buy* _That_ Tone.




Correction: 100% of his "Technique", "Touch", and "Style" is coming from his hands/fingers, not 99% of his tone. 

Tone is a process including personal technique, touch, gear, and how the gear is routed, set, etc... and relies on the interaction of the player and the gear, and the listener to exist PERIOD.

Plug him into a Fender Twin and a Telecaster, and 0% of THAT modded Marshall tone will be coming out ANYWHERE-- PERIOD.  Just saying


----------



## Goosey

I fully agree too. I think his vibrato is one of the biggest parts of his tone but no one else can sound like Doug, Doug is Doug.


----------



## Wycked Lester

zachman said:


> Plug him into a Fender Twin and a Telecaster, and 0% of THAT modded Marshall tone will be coming out ANYWHERE-- PERIOD.  Just saying




throw a decent distortion pedal in the mix and you can bet he'll be swimming in sweet ass doug aldridge tone.


----------



## zachman

Wycked Lester said:


> throw a decent distorting pedal in the mix and you can bet your ass he'll be swimming in sweet ass doug aldridge tone.



Tell yourself whatever you have to. 

That doesn't address this:



hellride said:


> Sorry but I think Doug's sound is terrible.
> He's a GREAT guitarplayer and I love his playing in both Lion and Whitesnake but that sound...no, I don't like it.
> He demoed the Marshall Randy Rhoads series on NAMM(?) and it sucked!!!
> I mean, those amps are pretty sweet and the sound he got was all mushy and uber-electric with NO string separation.
> But then again, it's only my opinion


----------



## Wycked Lester

k, well....

maybe if ya keep on practicing you'll develop some tone of your own, ... then you'll understand....


----------



## Wycked Lester

but, ..anyway,...to get back on track...

@ Goosey,.. ya know, the only thing im hearing besides just good distorted rock tone and a monster player is .....

...ya might experiment around with some compression to help get that smoothness and singy sustain,... the rest, well, the dude is a monster.


----------



## zachman

Wycked Lester said:


> k, well....
> 
> maybe if ya keep on practicing you'll develop some tone of your own, ... then you'll understand....





Ya, a 30+ year music career has taught me a few things, and the most important understanding is-- as long as I am earning a living, I am doing what it takes. I hope you achieve the same success.


----------



## albertlespaul

Wycked Lester said:


> throw a decent distortion pedal in the mix and you can bet he'll be swimming in sweet ass doug aldridge tone.



That's called playing style, not tone. Of course when a guitar player player like Doug Aldrich or Jimmy Page picks a different setup he is going to sound like himself because he uses the same style (licks, vibrato, etc.), but the tone is either gonna give him that extra thing that makes it sound so amazing, or make it sound ok. 

A bad guitar player is going to sound bad with either good tone and bad tone, but a very good guitar player is going to sound nice with bad tone and amazing with good tone.


----------



## Wycked Lester

zachman said:


> Ya, a 30+ year music career has taught me a few things, and the most important understanding is-- as long as I am earning a living, I am doing what it takes. I hope you achieve the same success.



same here 30 yrs,...do it full time...big whoop,... [actually, it is ]

guess we look at it different, and thats fine. ... i know we both know our shit, so whatever.....

I completely understand where you are comming from with different gear having differnt tone and all that....

But, to me,.... when someone asks how a certain player is geting a certain tone, 90% or more of what he is hearing is comming from the person themself. In other words,....An exact replica of dougs rig WILNOT sound like the tone you are hearing in that video without doug playing it.... i mean,... he sounds about the same no matter what he plays thru

and i guess this is where you whould argue that im refering to 'style'....

....and i guess your right, in a way....


But wouldn't you agree that one's style dictates one's tone?


----------



## Marival

Wycked Lester said:


> same here 30 yrs,...do it full time...big whoop,... [actually, it is ]
> 
> guess we look at it different, and thats fine. ... i know we both know our shit, so whatever.....
> 
> I completely understand where you are comming from with different gear having differnt tone and all that....
> 
> But, to me,.... when someone asks how a certain player is geting a certain tone, 90% or more of what he is hearing is comming from the person themself. In other words,....An exact replica of dougs rig WILNOT sound like the tone you are hearing in that video without doug playing it.... i mean,... he sounds about the same no matter what he plays thru
> 
> and i guess this is where you whould argue that im refering to 'style'....
> 
> ....and i guess your right, in a way....
> 
> 
> But wouldn't you agree that one's style dictates one's tone?



So you're saying that when you compare the same guy playing a Les Paul through a Marshall Vs. a Strat through a Dual Rec the difference in ''tone'' will only be about 10%?

If the person is physically responsible for 90% of what they sound like, then what's the deal with some of those crazy big rigs? Do you really think all of that is brought in just to cover the last 10%?


----------



## zachman

Wycked Lester said:


> same here 30 yrs,...do it full time...big whoop,... [actually, it is ]
> 
> guess we look at it different, and thats fine. ... i know we both know our shit, so whatever.....
> 
> I completely understand where you are comming from with different gear having differnt tone and all that....
> 
> But, to me,.... when someone asks how a certain player is geting a certain tone, 90% or more of what he is hearing is comming from the person themself. In other words,....An exact replica of dougs rig WILNOT sound like the tone you are hearing in that video without doug playing it.... i mean,... he sounds about the same no matter what he plays thru
> 
> and i guess this is where you whould argue that im refering to 'style'....
> 
> ....and i guess your right, in a way....
> 
> 
> But wouldn't you agree that one's style dictates one's tone?



I don't know that I would agree that one's style dictates one's tone, because IF that were true, the tone controls one ones gear, the selection of gear, the way it's routed, and programmed, the reflections of a given room's surfaces, and different microphones etc... wouldn't make a difference-- and we both know they certainly do. That is why I would argue that while one's touch on the instrument certainly can and does impact tone, it isn't the end of it-- it's just the beginning of a much more involved process.

Put Yo Yo Ma on a student level Cello he'll sound like Yo Yo Ma playing like a MASTER, but when he plays the Stradivarius, the TONE is different... Same fingers, same player...






Yo Yo Ma likes the Stradivarius over the WalMart level instrument because The TONE, "it" produces when he plays it-- *by contrast, because he can coax tonal nuances from it that the other instrument just doesn't have in it, for him to coax out. See?





*http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zDGphZaQoSw


----------



## Wycked Lester

Marival said:


> So you're saying that when you compare the same guy playing a Les Paul through a Marshall Vs. a Strat through a Dual Rec the difference in ''tone'' will only be about 10%?




no, not just 'some guy',... im talking about a player with the abilities of doug aldrich.

The way i see it,.... you have NO tone in your hands when you start,...and then your tone is 100% dictated by the gear you use...

BUT, when you reach the level of playing that doug aldrich has reached, ...so has 'your tone',.... therefore, for a player like doug,_ his_ tone is 90% in the hands.


----------



## Wycked Lester

not just doug, but MANY players are easily identified by their 'tone' although they may use a big variaty of gear....

Gary Moore, sounds like Gary More and has basically the same tone whether he is using a 59 paul into a plexi, or a Kramer into a Soldano..... Still INSTANTY identifible tone.

as does Zakk Wylde - you can pick off zakk tone whether it is clean or dirty....

and the list goes on and on,..


----------



## Wycked Lester

zachman said:


> Put Yo Yo Ma on a student level Cello he'll sound like Yo Yo Ma playing like a MASTER, but when he plays the Stradivarius, the TONE is different... Same fingers, same player...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yo Yo Ma likes the Stradivarius over the WalMart level instrument because The TONE, "it" produces when he plays it-- *by contrast, because he can coax tonal nuances from it that the other instrument just doesn't have in it, for him to coax out. See?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *This Old Cello - YouTube





funny you should bring the up,... i used to sell violins and Cellos, viola's .ect..... and I can tell you right now that you CANOT tell the difference between in tone with a $200 violin and a $4000 violin with a beginner student playing it.

It takes years of practice to get the sweet tone out of an expensive violin,.... it does not just 'come out' by pulling the bow across the strings.


----------



## Wycked Lester

I realize we are just debating 'terminology' ....

but to me, its like asking 'what kind of mic do i need to sound like robert plant'?


----------



## LesPaulopolis

One's "hand technique" def. lends to different "tone" IMO.

When playing solos, if you're muting the other strings with other fingers, palm, etc. your solo notes will have a more pure ring & sustain. You can buy all the gear in the world but until you have that a-ha moment of knowing a river only flows one way and you gotta start out with quality at the start (finger technique) to reap the benefits of legendary amplified tone at the end (listener's ear).

For me, the a-ha moment was realizing how different pick thicknesses (and material) can have a major impact on tone.

My 2 cents.


----------



## Marival

In this case ''Tone'' is what I consider the final product that will travel to people's ears. And I'm sorry, but there's just no way that your fingers account for 90% of that. That's way too much. 

The ''cleaner'' your rig is, the more your fingers will matter. What I mean by that is the less crap you have between the player and the amp, the more your fingers matter in your playing. 

Fingers don't boost mids. Fingers don't overdrive an amp. Fingers don't replicate a cocked wah. Just a few examples.

If you say you have enjoyed a thirty year long career in this field, you should know that gear, be it amps, guitars or effects, matters a WHOLE lot more than the measly 10% you give it credit for.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

If fingers matter that much, Id like to see the guys claim that here trade in their #1 amp for something like a Dual Recto or an Engl Fireball.


----------



## zachman

Wycked Lester said:


> I realize we are just debating 'terminology' ....
> 
> but to me, its like asking 'what kind of mic do i need to sound like robert plant'?



You'd (assuming you can sing like him in the first place, ie. same timbre), be more likely to get there using a Neve console and the appropriate mic w/ a Studer tape machine than through a Tascam 4 track cassette recorder... using and an old harmonica mic through a distorted POS amp.

Look, on a gear forum to say it's in the fingers is ridiculous, when OBVIOUSLY the gear matters.

The best gear in the world isn't going to make someone who can't play a maestro, but it's also too easy to say that it's in the fingers and come across like an elitist douche-- as though gear is irrelevant. 

The only tone in anyone's fingers exhibits is only when whlstling, clapping your hands or making hand or under arm farts. No instruments = no tone, no fingers on the instruments = no tone-- it takes both. For anyone to argue other wise, is disingenuous, or just plain ignorant. 

That said, an unlimited budget and access to the best gear in the world doesn't provide one with skills, and the best skill in the world w/ shit gear set badly doesn't equal (necessarily) a great sound.


----------



## Wycked Lester

believe what ya want.....

but your only shortchanging yourself.... How are you going to develop your own tone if you don't think its possible.



Here is the bottom line,... if you want to have doug aldrich tone you have to practice your ass off untill you can actually play like doug aldrich,....THEN if you play like doug aldrich, you will sound like doug aldrich .....with pretty much any rig.

But, if you don't practice your ass off and get to that level, no amount of money or gear will make you sound like doug aldrich.

Its like all the lil fanboys that want to sound like Slash,....

you can buy a slash guitar, slash amp, slash pickups, slash picks, slash wah pedals, slash hats and the whole nine yards,.... ALL that stuff is available to the consumer,... but it still wont make ya sound like Slash.

On the other hand, learn to play like slash, and all you'll need is just some les paul and a marshall to sound like, or have ,...'slash tone'


----------



## John 14:6

Wycked Lester said:


> believe what ya want.....
> 
> but your only shortchanging yourself.... How are you going to develop your own tone if you don't think its possible.
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the bottom line,... if you want to have doug aldrich tone you have to practice your ass off untill you can actually play like doug aldrich,....THEN if you play like doug aldrich, you will sound like doug aldrich .....with pretty much any rig.
> 
> But, if you don't practice your ass off and get to that level, no amount of money or gear will make you sound like doug aldrich.
> 
> Its like all the lil fanboys that want to sound like Slash,....
> 
> you can buy a slash guitar, slash amp, slash pickups, slash picks, slash wah pedals, slash hats and the whole nine yards,.... ALL that stuff is available to the consumer,... but it still wont make ya sound like Slash.
> 
> On the other hand, learn to play like slash, and all you'll need is just some les paul and a marshall to sound like, or have ,...'slash tone'


 Man that was well said. I have a YJM100 and it is an AMAZING amp, but it will only make you sound like Yngwie if you can play like Yngwie. Same thing with the Malmsteen Strats. Ted Nugent found this out when he plugged into Eddie Van Halen's amp and he still sounded like Ted. Jeff Beck will sound like Jeff Beck no matter what he is playing or plugged into.


----------



## Wycked Lester

John 14:6 said:


> Jeff Beck will sound like Jeff Beck no matter what he is playing or plugged into.




yea, how bout that fuckin' guy. ONE NOTE and you know its Jeff Beck whether its AlNiCo pickups, AlNiCo speakers, blackface, silverface, fuzzface, v neck, maple, rosewood, fender, warmouth body, brige set floating, hardtail,.....you name it,.... it aint gonna matter......

you could put him on a first act and hell sound 90% the same as he does with anything else

you or i, on the other hand, can buy the sig strat, and we ain't gonna come close to sounding like jeff beck.... unless you've busted your ass practicing your jeff beckness and approach the guitar the same as jeff beck..


SRV is another good example,... my dad can play my SRV strat, and sounds NOTHING like SRV, however I can pick up about ANY strat and make it sound very similar to srv ,..... if i string it heavy and beat the shit out of it. ...... you will NEVER find SRV tone without beating the shit out a strat style guitar when you play it. period.


----------



## Marival

Meh, this is like talking to a brick.

Having to practice your ass off to be able to play really well (or as good as any pro that's usually listed) is an open door statement and anyone would be a fool to deny it. 

Does great gear alone make a great player? Of course not.

The development of tone is much more than just fingerwork though. The guitars you prefer, the amps you grow to love, the effects you stick to. It's how you use all of these things that will determine what you will sound like. Up to this day I still find out new stuff about what I use. It's a whole process. Oh and, incidentally, I don't appreciate being put in the ''Slash fanboy'' bracket.

Furthermore, if you put someone like Jeff Beck in front of Kerry King's rig, it ain't gonna sound like Jeff Beck. It's going to sound like Jeff Beck playing through someone else's rig.


----------



## Wycked Lester

Marival said:


> Furthermore, if you put someone like Jeff Beck in front of Kerry King's rig, it ain't gonna sound like Jeff Beck. It's going to sound like Jeff Beck playing through someone else's rig.



thats funny,... they actually have used VERY similar rigs over the years....

JCM 800 ....check
Humbucker equiped guitar. .....check [sometimes for beck]
Floating trem set up. . ........check
few stompboxes for boost or eq.. . ...check


pretty much the same shit,... kk runs tons of gain JB doesn't,....

and they still sound like themselves


Kerry King ,.... that dude would never sound like jeff beck if jeff beck handed his guitar right to him. KK doesn't have the skilzz to pull off Jeff Beck tone, no matter what he would play.


----------



## zachman

Wycked Lester said:


> thats funny,... they actually have used VERY similar rigs over the years....
> 
> JCM 800 ....check
> Humbucker equiped guitar. .....check [sometimes for beck]
> Floating trem set up. . ........check
> few stompboxes for boost or eq.. . ...check
> 
> 
> pretty much the same shit,... kk runs tons of gain JB doesn't,....
> 
> and they still sound like themselves
> 
> 
> Kerry King ,.... that dude would never sound like jeff beck if jeff beck handed his guitar right to him. KK doesn't have the skilzz to pull off Jeff Beck tone, no matter what he would play.



Yet Van Halen's tone is VERY different on Van Halen 1 than Balance or OU812. OBVIOUSLY he's recognizable as Van Halen, but your freakin ears are broken if you can't hear a tonal difference.

I don't think anyone has claimed that technique doesn't impact tone, clearly it does, but tone is not the same thing as style or technique.

If I play a Van Halen riff or song through a strat and a Fender Twin-- the me I sound like is VERY different than the me I sound like playing it through my big rig-- same fingers different tone. 

You're right... terminology is the issue

Tone
Timbre
Technique
Sound
Style
Genre

are often used synonymously and there are distinctions that I suggest are worth making between them. That distinction would avoid confusion when having this conversation.

Bottom line tone is only "Good" or "Bad" tone in the context with which it's utilized, and if one doesn't have anything interesting to say with their music, it's a mute point, and quite irrelevant.

Ever heard Mark aka Rockstah play Van Halen w/ his modded amp, or Pete Thorn or any number of cover band players coping a whole host of various styles, AND tones? Shit-- quit being so obtuse guys. There are TONS of guys who can cop a bunch of guys styles AND tones and clearly they aren't the original players, so when guys on a gear forum of all places are talking about achieving a particular tone get your heads out of your asses and lighten up, it CAN be done and IS EVERY day by a lot of players out there, and at the end of the day, OF COURSE one needs to learn to achieve a certain command of their instrument, but JEEZ... the gear matters too-- more for those with a diverse sonic palette than those with a simple meat and potatoes preference.


----------



## Marival

Wycked Lester said:


> thats funny,... they actually have used VERY similar rigs over the years....
> 
> JCM 800 ....check
> Humbucker equiped guitar. .....check [sometimes for beck]
> Floating trem set up. . ........check
> few stompboxes for boost or eq.. . ...check
> 
> 
> pretty much the same shit,... kk runs tons of gain JB doesn't,....
> 
> and they still sound like themselves
> 
> 
> Kerry King ,.... that dude would never sound like jeff beck if jeff beck handed his guitar right to him. KK doesn't have the skilzz to pull off Jeff Beck tone, no matter what he would play.



Well that's just great, isn't it? Pick one sentence (incidentally the most hypothetic and least meaningful) and take a dump on it. And a bad one, at that.

It doesn't really matter that their gear is rather similar (or more similar than people would think). It's not the *same*.

Yes. They sound like themselves. What a revelation, I'm glad we got that straightened out.

And then you even get into who the better guitarist is? I'm not even going to touch that with a 50 ft. pole. They are both notable guitarists with very different styles. Both of them do what they do frightfully well. Can't hate on that.

You may try again, sir.


----------



## zachman

Marival said:


> Well that's just great, isn't it? Pick one sentence (incidentally the most hypothetic and least meaningful) and take a dump on it. And a bad one, at that.
> 
> It doesn't really matter that their gear is rather similar (or more similar than people would think). It's not the *same*.
> 
> Yes. They sound like themselves. What a revelation, I'm glad we got that straightened out.
> 
> And then you even get into who the better guitarist is? I'm not even going to touch that with a 50 ft. pole. They are both notable guitarists with very different styles. Both of them do what they do frightfully well. Can't hate on that.
> 
> You may try again, sir.



NOT arguing w/ you at all. WE are in agreement here. The following commentary is a showing of solidarity

Bottom line-- take ANY player you choose-- plug them into an ES335 and a Polytone Mini Brute ONLY-- Then plug them into a Marshall Plexi SL and CRANK it, and hand them a Strat, then a Les Paul. IF you can't hear a difference in tone, you are freakin deaf. And... I guarantee I can produce tones through this, that NOBODY and I mean NOBODY can produce, without the gear additions PERIOD... I don't give a shit who they are. ANY arguments about it is pure denial of facts.

It's not just the notes we play or the way we play them, it's also the sonic colors and textures, that gear brings to the table and makes possible which make up tone... Deal with it


----------



## rockstah

tone is in the gear... its up to the player to get it out.


----------



## Wycked Lester

zachman said:


> NOT arguing w/ you at all. WE are in agreement here. The following commentary is a showing of solidarity
> 
> Bottom line-- take ANY player you choose-- plug them into an ES335 and a Polytone Mini Brute ONLY-- Then plug them into a Marshall Plexi SL and CRANK it, and hand them a Strat, then a Les Paul. IF you can't hear a difference in tone, you are freakin deaf. And... I guarantee I can produce tones through this, that NOBODY and I mean NOBODY can produce, without the gear additions PERIOD... I don't give a shit who they are. ANY arguments about it is pure denial of facts.
> 
> It's not just the notes we play or the way we play them, it's also the sonic colors and textures, that gear brings to the table and makes possible which make up tone... Deal with it



I love how when you get into a debate with someone you always post up these pictures of your Rig-Zilla as if its is supposed to 'prove' something,.... Like i'm supposed to go 'wow, this guy must know his shit'

Well im not impressed,... I had pretty much that same rig in 1989,... 3 1/2 stacks and a rack of shit as tall as me,.... thank god i finally got past all that...

The only thing this proves is that you Really do believe that the tone is in the gear,... well, i already knew you felt that way.


----------



## The Ozzk

Marival said:


> And then you even get into who the better guitarist is? I'm not even going to touch that with a 50 ft. pole. They are both notable guitarists with very different styles. Both of them do what they do frightfully well. Can't hate on that.
> 
> You may try again, sir.


 
Dude you're not implying that KK is just as good as JB right?


----------



## crossroadsnyc

rockstah said:


> tone is in the gear... its up to the player to get it out.



This is the right answer ... and it also demonstrates why both sides of this debate have merit. Both Wycked & Zach are 100% correct ... the only thing is that they're not mutually exclusive ... it's a combination of both, guys.


----------



## crossroadsnyc

Marival said:


> In this case ''Tone'' is what I consider the final product that will travel to people's ears. And I'm sorry, but there's just no way that your fingers account for 90% of that. That's way too much.
> 
> The ''cleaner'' your rig is, the more your fingers will matter. What I mean by that is the less crap you have between the player and the amp, the more your fingers matter in your playing.
> 
> Fingers don't boost mids. Fingers don't overdrive an amp. Fingers don't replicate a cocked wah. Just a few examples.
> 
> If you say you have enjoyed a thirty year long career in this field, you should know that gear, be it amps, guitars or effects, matters a WHOLE lot more than the measly 10% you give it credit for.



I'd work on your technique ... playing dynamics (such as the ability to play clean or overdrive the amp w/just your fingers) can be a critical component depending on the style you play (very important for some, not so important for others). Nevertheless, that's an inaccurate statement.


----------



## zachman

Wycked Lester said:


> I love how when you get into a debate with someone you always post up these pictures of you Rig-Zilla as if its is supposed to 'prove' something,.... Like i'm supposed to go 'wow, this guy must know his shit'
> 
> Well im not impressed,... I had pretty much that same rig in 1989,... 3 1/2 stacks and a rack of shit as tall as me,.... thank god i finally got past all that...
> 
> The only thing this proves is that you Really do believe that the tone is in the gear,... well, i already knew you felt that way.



Way to not address the points I made... Good job.

Your flawed conclusion of what I believe isn't surprising-- BUT, I believe tone starts and ends in the brain, and it gets there via the ears, through sound waves traveling through the air, produced by gear-- being manipulated by a player.

Conclusion: It ALL matters. 

No gear= NO Tone, Style, Sound, NOTHING 

No Player= NO Tone, Style, Sound, NOTHING


----------



## zachman

crossroadsnyc said:


> This is the right answer ... and it also demonstrates why both sides of this debate have merit. Both Wycked & Zach are 100% correct ... the only thing is that they're not mutually exclusive ... *it's a combination of both, guys.*



I have said this from the very beginning.


----------



## rockstah

pun intended, they go hand in hand.


----------



## zenfly

crossroadsnyc said:


> I'd work on your technique ... playing dynamics (such as the ability to play clean or overdrive the amp w/just your fingers) can be a critical component depending on the style you play (very important for some, not so important for others). Nevertheless, that's an inaccurate statement.



Exactly.. so many ask what pedals/ what amp etc.. You can buy a Ferrari but it doesn't make you a race driver.. Doug is a picking master that can get several tones just by what he's doing with his pick and you could plug 100 guitar players through his stuff and I'll bet none sound like him..


----------



## crossroadsnyc

zenfly said:


> Exactly.. so many ask what pedals/ what amp etc.. You can buy a Ferrari but it doesn't make you a race driver.. Doug is a picking master that can get several tones just by what he's doing with his pick and you could plug 100 guitar players through his stuff and I'll bet none sound like him..



Precisely. In fact, my tone changes (albeit slightly) by simply changing the way I hold the pick ... meaning, if I hold it w/my thumb and forefinger, I get a slightly different tone than holding it w/my thumb and middle finger (it's because of the way my fingers wind up hitting the strings ... specifically, when I hold it w/my middle & thumb, my finger gets in the mix a bit and thickens up the tone a bit ... hard to describe, sorry) ... funny enough, I had learned this in the same scenario as described above by LesPaulopolis (meaning, I realized this around the same time that I realized the thickness of my pick will change my tone).


----------



## zachman

rockstah said:


> pun intended, they go hand in hand.


----------



## zachman

zenfly said:


> Exactly.. so many ask what pedals/ what amp etc.. You can buy a Ferrari but it doesn't make you a race driver.. Doug is a picking master that can get several tones just by what he's doing with his pick and you could plug 100 guitar players through his stuff and I'll bet none sound like him..



That all may be true, BUT if you're trying to be a race driver, you'll likely set better lap times in a Ferrari than a mini van, of course-- (duh) assuming you can actually drive well. Just saying, AND even Schumaker will get better lap times in a Ferrari than a mini van, so too will Doug w/ his preferred gear than a battery powered Pig Nose, get his characteristic Tone--


----------



## Marival

crossroadsnyc said:


> I'd work on your technique ... playing dynamics (such as the ability to play clean or overdrive the amp w/just your fingers) can be a critical component depending on the style you play (very important for some, not so important for others). Nevertheless, that's an inaccurate statement.



You're missing the point.

Let's take the JVM410H. Nobody will be able to make the Clean Green mode sound like the Amber Crunch mode with just their fingers. Sure, there is a myriad of ways to coax tones out of a guitar with your fingers. I never denied that. At the same time there's also a myriad of amps and guitars, each yielding their own distinct sound. Some more different than others. And yeah, given the correct amp setting, you can actually either overdrive your sound or clean it up just by picking differently.

I can assure you that the ''technique'' you urge me to work on is being used and practised regularly. I may not be a master but I make it work, thank you very much.

Lastly I'd like to point out that neither I nor Zach have said that gear is all that matters. I'd like a quote proving me wrong if anyone disagrees.

Seriously guys, I'm getting tired of having to point out stuff that I've never claimed. *Please read before you post.*


----------



## crossroadsnyc

Marival said:


> You're missing the point.
> 
> Let's take the JVM410H. Nobody will be able to make the Clean Green mode sound like the Amber Crunch mode with just their fingers. Sure, there is a myriad of ways to coax tones out of a guitar with your fingers. I never denied that. At the same time there's also a myriad of amps and guitars, each yielding their own distinct sound. Some more different than others. And yeah, given the correct amp setting, you can actually either overdrive your sound or clean it up just by picking differently.
> 
> I can assure you that the ''technique'' you urge me to work on is being used and practised regularly. I may not be a master but I make it work, thank you very much.
> 
> Lastly I'd like to point out that neither I nor Zach have said that gear is all that matters. I'd like a quote proving me wrong if anyone disagrees.
> 
> Seriously guys, I'm getting tired of having to point out stuff that I've never claimed. *Please read before you post.*



I did read it ... in fact, I highlighted it in red. We just disagree ... it's cool.


----------



## albertlespaul

zenfly said:


> You can buy a Ferrari but it doesn't make you a race driver..



buying a Ferrari = tone
being a good racing driver = style

In my opinion Doug has both tone and style. But if you don't have his style, you're still gonna have fun if you have a tone as good as his and without a good tone your style is useless. 

Tone is only what comes out of the setup, it's all there... of course you need to have some style to access the tones.


----------



## crossroadsnyc

Marival said:


> You're missing the point.
> 
> Let's take the JVM410H. Nobody will be able to make the Clean Green mode sound like the Amber Crunch mode with just their fingers. Sure, there is a myriad of ways to coax tones out of a guitar with your fingers. I never denied that. At the same time there's also a myriad of amps and guitars, each yielding their own distinct sound. Some more different than others. And yeah, given the correct amp setting, you can actually either overdrive your sound or clean it up just by picking differently.
> 
> I can assure you that the ''technique'' you urge me to work on is being used and practised regularly. I may not be a master but I make it work, thank you very much.
> 
> Lastly I'd like to point out that neither I nor Zach have said that gear is all that matters. I'd like a quote proving me wrong if anyone disagrees.
> 
> Seriously guys, I'm getting tired of having to point out stuff that I've never claimed. *Please read before you post.*



Btw., my apologies if that came across the wrong way (i read it again, and i can see how that might come across a bit snotty) ... I didn't intend to suggest that you were a poor player, or lacked technique ... was just a poorly worded way of trying to throw in my 2 cents. I'm really very sorry for the way it came out.


----------



## kramer.geetar

zachman said:


>




Back up system for controlling the International Space Station?


----------



## zachman

kramer.geetar said:


> Back up system for controlling the International Space Station?



No, it's the main system. lol


----------



## Wycked Lester

Goosey said:


> I know, I know, I shouldn't be imitating other players tones but i've been trying to get a Doug Aldrich tone for ages, a really thick, smooth tone. Does anyone have any pointers? I'm using a TSL100 with a 1960BX Cab (Same cab as Doug). He uses modded plexi's so I know im not gonna get a perfect tone but what would you guys reckon for eq's?



its funny,... how some of you want to talk down to me like im some f'n idiot,... with your whole 'gimme a clean twin and a tele' bullshit.

I KNOW GEAR HAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH YOUR TONE, IM NOT A F'N MORON. Im just saying there is ALOT more to it than that.....

Now, if we take what I said IN context....

Goosey was inquiring about how to get doug aldrich tone.... Well, Doug plays les pauls and marshalls,.... Goossy ALSO plays les pauls and marshalls.,....so gear wise hes like 90% there right,.... but he still feels like something is missing......

And what im saying is the thing thats missing is NOT a magic piece of gear, which im sure he already suspects,... but rather good ole fashion practice is what he needs to get him the rest of the way there.....

And I feel like having all the right gear is 10-20% of what you need,... the other 80-90% lives, or doesn't live in your fingers.....

This was advice i gave to goosey,....and as far as im concerned its the gospel.

Then a couple of you had to try to take it upon yourselves to try and 'prove me wrong' ...


you look at it the way you want, and ill look at it the way i want.


----------



## crossroadsnyc

Wycked Lester said:


> its funny,... how some of you want to talk down to me like im some f'n idiot,... with your whole 'gimme a clean twin and a tele' bullshit.
> 
> I KNOW GEAR HAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH YOUR TONE, IM NOT A F'N MORON. Im just saying there is ALOT more to it than that.....
> 
> Now, if we take what I said IN context....
> 
> Goosey was inquiring about how to get doug aldrich tone.... Well, Doug plays les pauls and marshalls,.... Goossy ALSO plays les pauls and marshalls.,....so gear wise hes like 90% there right,.... but he still feels like something is missing......
> 
> And what im saying is the thing thats missing is NOT a magic piece of gear, which im sure he already suspects,... but rather good ole fashion practice is what he needs to get him the rest of the way there.....
> 
> And I feel like having all the right gear is 10-20 of what you need,... the other 80-90 lives, or doesn't live in your fingers.....
> 
> This was advice i gave to goosey,....and as far as im concerned its the gospel.
> 
> Then a couple of you had to try to take it upon yourselves to try and 'prove me wrong' ...
> 
> 
> you look at it the way you want, and ill look at it the way i want.



Actually, I'm w/you for the most part ... I mean, gear definitely plays a part to a certain extent, but if you can't do anything w/it, then it's worthless. Hell, play a note w/your finger in one position, then twist your finger a bit w/slightly different pressure, and voila, you'll have a slightly different tone. I think the problem most people have w/the 'tone is in the fingers' argument is that it signals they are going to have to work at it, rather than purchase it. In this current climate of "everybody is the same and everybody is a winner!", it's hard to accept that there are simply things that others can do, that some of us can not ... well, w/out hard work, that is. This is also why I find the notion of someone asking for 'settings' to be ridiculous ... there is so much that goes into the equation, that you can't simplify it to a certain purchase & certain settings.


----------



## zachman

Wycked Lester said:


> its funny,... how some of you want to talk down to me like im some f'n idiot,... with your whole 'gimme a clean twin and a tele' bullshit.
> 
> I KNOW GEAR HAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH YOUR TONE, IM NOT A F'N MORON. Im just saying there is ALOT more to it than that.....
> 
> Now, if we take what I said IN context....
> 
> Goosey was inquiring about how to get doug aldrich tone.... Well, Doug plays les pauls and marshalls,.... Goossy ALSO plays les pauls and marshalls.,....so gear wise hes like 90% there right,.... but he still feels like something is missing......
> 
> And what im saying is the thing thats missing is NOT a magic piece of gear, which im sure he already suspects,... but rather good ole fashion practice is what he needs to get him the rest of the way there.....
> 
> And I feel like having all the right gear is 10-20 of what you need,... the other 80-90 lives, or doesn't live in your fingers.....
> 
> This was advice i gave to goosey,....and as far as im concerned its the gospel.
> 
> Then a couple of you had to try to take it upon yourselves to try and 'prove me wrong' ...
> 
> 
> you look at it the way you want, and ill look at it the way i want.



Ease up... I wasn't talking to you like you were a moron, rather like you were intentionally being obtuse. 

The formula is simple... you want Doug's tone... Start with using what he uses AND practice playing like him. Just any old Marshall isn't going to do it... use a Marshall w/ the same specs (mod), cabs w/ the same speakers, Guitar w/ the same pickups, etc... That's what I would bet is MORE likely missing (from his POV) than practice.


----------



## dreyn77

YEp GUYS we are all right! we should remember not to 'attack' each other! point taken by me as well. finding tones you like and want is going to take lots of time, playing ability, exprience, talking to others, listening, experimenting etc... I had no idea for 30 years that Mr Rhoads' white amp was modified, but you can only hear the modded amp on a few of the songs and rare 'live' recordings anyway. One point about Doug i find interesting is he says his favorite amp is his 1979 JMP, and he demoed the 1959RR, took it home (recorded it for some of the WS album) and gave it back to marshall! the reason - It was shaking the house too much! (Huh?!? I don't get it) Yeah Doug plays the guitar REALLY good and that makes the sound from 'whatever' amp sound amazing!


----------



## Wycked Lester

zachman said:


> ... use a Marshall w/ the same specs (mod), cabs w/ the same speakers, Guitar w/ the same pickups, etc... That's what I would bet is MORE likely missing (from his POV) than practice.




hmm,. ..well, ... i guess we kinda see it the same way then, only difference is i'd put the MORE on the practice aspect,... 

but indeed both ingredients play a major role,.... looks like we'll have to agree to disagree on which way we lean on the subject, and thats completely fine with me.


----------



## zachman

Wycked Lester said:


> hmm,. ..well, ... i guess we kinda see it the same way then, only difference is i'd put the MORE on the practice aspect,...
> 
> but indeed both ingredients play a major role,.... looks like we'll have to agree to disagree on which way we lean on the subject, and thats completely fine with me.


As things have been clarified, I don't think we really disagree. We both agree it's both (gear and skill) required to have anything meaningful.

I see proficiency on one's instrument as a separate skill/art from the skill/art of engineering gear or the skill/art of song writing, or the art/skill of entertaining, or the skill/art of being a producer selecting which gear/tones to use or not and how much and on which instruments.


----------



## albertlespaul

dreyn77 said:


> Yeah Doug plays the guitar REALLY good and that makes the sound from 'whatever' amp sound amazing!


Give him a MS-2 and I bet he would sound like shit no matter how good he will play... because you need a base of a good tone to have the chance to show your skills.


----------



## zenfly

I bought the same amp Hendrix used.. Why don't I sound like him?
I saw Clapton playing through a Vibroking.. Crap!!! I don't sound like him now.. WTF?


----------



## albertlespaul

zenfly said:


> I bought the same amp Hendrix used.. Why don't I sound like him?
> I saw Clapton playing through a Vibroking.. Crap!!! I don't sound like him now.. WTF?



You don't sound like them because you don't have the same styles, that does not mean you can't get the same tone coming from the rig...


----------



## Wycked Lester

albertlespaul said:


> Give him a MS-2 and I bet he would sound like shit no matter how good he will play... because you need a base of a good tone to have the chance to show your skills.



And you would lose that bet...... 
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFGnsuq6lt4&feature=related]Doug Aldrich from Whitesnake warming up - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## albertlespaul

Wycked Lester said:


> And you would lose that bet......
> Doug Aldrich from Whitesnake warming up - YouTube



He shows some nice playing, but the tone of that VOX is so bad it gave me a headache...


----------



## Wycked Lester

albertlespaul said:


> He shows some nice playing, but the tone of that VOX is so bad it gave me a headache...


----------



## zachman

Wycked Lester said:


> And you would lose that bet......
> Doug Aldrich from Whitesnake warming up - YouTube



Great playing, and I'm figuring you're just trying to be cute... but IF you really believe 'that' tone is the same as his record, or live tone then your ears really are broken.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

zachman said:


> Great playing, and I'm figuring you're just trying to be cute... but IF you really believe 'that' tone is the same as his record, or live tone then your ears really are broken.



Well it would sound like the albums if you played them though a tin can.


----------



## zachman

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Well it would sound like the albums if you played them though a tin can.



Oh brother.....


----------



## dreyn77

I like the tone Doug has when he demoed the Vintage Modern on the marshall promo DVD. the Les paul tone was better than the strat i thought. It was funny watching doug try and get some feedback and the amp wasn't abliging. Did you notice him trying to cover up that the amp wouldn't go to a clean sound?


----------



## Wycked Lester

zachman said:


> Great playing, and I'm figuring you're just trying to be cute... but IF you really believe 'that' tone is the same as his record, or live tone then your ears really are broken.



no, its not the 'same' .... but its pretty damn good tone for comming out of a 10watt amp. That tone is 100x better than the tone my son gets out of his little vox practice amp,...but of course he's only been playing a couple years so he has yet to develope any sort of 'tone in his fingers' yet.


----------



## albertlespaul

Wycked Lester said:


> no, its not the 'same' .... but its pretty damn good playing for comming out of a 10watt amp. That playing is 100x better than the playing my son gets out of his little vox practice amp,...but of course he's only been playing a couple years so he has yet to develope any sort of 'playing in his fingers' yet.


_fixed_


----------



## Wycked Lester

I don't think i need my posts 'fixed' by you bro,... i would bet i've been doing this shit since you were cum, or before. If you haven't developed any tone in your fingers yet, thats totally understandable, but if you don't believe its possible your gonna end up being one of those players that spends all his time looking for the magic piece gear, or searching the internet all night looking for that magic 'something' thats missing from your playing,......



.......and it will have been at your fingertips all along.

Know it!


----------



## Wycked Lester

ya know whats funny,....kinda....

As i've mentioned before,...i play guitar tech part time at the local gc part time.... its a cool gig.

Many times during the course of the day,....after i have worked on something and i am checking it out..... Someone will walk up to me and say,..'man, that sounds good, what kinda amp are you playing thru?" At which point i will point to the little 10watt crate GX that is tucked under the repair bench.

Then puzzled the next question is "Huh,....well, What kinda pickups are those?" Then i'll just be like "just stock squires" .... or 'just the stock epi's" ...or whatever it may be...

Then the look of total confusion on their faces is, many times, picture worthy,....they cant' figure out why their squire and crate don't sound like that..


Disclaimer: i'm not really bragging,... im not saying thai im blowing the mind of everyone who walks into gc,... but to the young tone chasers and the cork sniffers that are in there, they usually walk out a lil bambozzled.


----------



## zachman

Wycked Lester said:


> ya know whats funny,....kinda....
> 
> As i've mentioned before,...i play guitar tech part time at the local gc part time.... its a cool gig.
> 
> Many times during the course of the day,....after i have worked on something and i am checking it out..... Someone will walk up to me and say,..'man, that sounds good, what kinda amp are you playing thru?" At which point i will point to the little 10watt crate GX that is tucked under the repair bench.
> 
> Then puzzled the next question is "Huh,....well, What kinda pickups are those?" Then i'll just be like "just stock squires" .... or 'just the stock epi's" ...or whatever it may be...
> 
> Then the look of total confusion on their faces is, many times, picture worthy,....they cant' figure out why their squire and crate don't sound like that..
> 
> 
> Disclaimer: i'm not really bragging,... im not saying thai im blowing the mind of everyone who walks into gc,... but to the young tone chasers and the cork sniffers that are in there, they usually walk out a lil bambozzled.



The untrained ear, the inexperienced beginner, and the noobs in general have NO clue as to what is involved in the music industry, from a players, techs, producers, or engineers perspective. 

Let me hear your Flanger finger give off that Unchained sound... Ya, it ain't happening. Obviously you understand what I am referring to, as well too-- you understand where some guys are coming from when asking about gear to accomplish a tone goal. 

It comes across as douchey condescension, to say, "Tone is in the fingers kid". 

How come a Dobro doesn't sound like a $25K Spanish Classical guitar, when played by the same player, playing the exact same song, lick, riff, whatever...., as when he plays it on the Spanish Classical guitar??? I know you know... The gear has tonal characteristics of it's own.

ANYONE that HAS to make the point to another beginning to intermediate player that gear doesn't matter, and that it's all the fingers, must suffer from short guy syndrome, and they are TOTALLY full of shit.

OF Course learning how to play should be a priority to beginners, and intermediate players. Of Course, one can NOT "Buy" their way into the Polished skill club, but neither can a skilled engineer make a Tascam 4 track, and a Radio Shack mic sound like a Neve, or SSL using a Neuman and a Urie and I don't care WHO is singing...

ALL the best gear in the world won't make a great artist out of someone, AND the best artist in the world won't be able to make the worst gear in the world sound like the best gear in the world (Sounding it's BEST) in an A/B comparisson. PERIOD

Great, you know how to play. You've been around. You've tech'd at GC, and had people wonder about how you've done this or that. Me too, difference is-- I am unsure if you've ever tech'd for any established artists-- I do, and wonder why you figure they have riders which specify certain specific gear, if it is SO insignificant. 

Why do you intentionally not address the fact that certain gear has a characteristic tone/sonic stamp associated with it-- regardless of the player, and furthermore is chosen by players specifically for that reason. I am not talking about nobody's here... I'm talking about guys like Landau, Holdsworth, Robben Ford etc... CLEARLY they have the world class skills to separate them from anyone else out there, but THEY note what you seem to dismiss. Why is that?


----------



## SwampThing

zachman said:


> The untrained ear, the inexperienced beginner, and the noobs in general have NO clue as to what is involved in the music industry, from a players, techs, producers, or engineers perspective.
> 
> Let me hear your Flanger finger give off that Unchained sound... Ya, it ain't happening. Obviously you understand what I am referring to, as well too-- you understand where some guys are coming from when asking about gear to accomplish a tone goal.
> 
> It comes across as douchey condescension, to say, "Tone is in the fingers kid".
> 
> How come a Dobro doesn't sound like a $25K Spanish Classical guitar, when played by the same player, playing the exact same song, lick, riff, whatever...., as when he plays it on the Spanish Classical guitar??? I know you know... The gear has tonal characteristics of it's own.
> 
> ANYONE that HAS to make the point to another beginning to intermediate player that gear doesn't matter, and that it's all the fingers, must suffer from short guy syndrome, and they are TOTALLY full of shit.
> 
> OF Course learning how to play should be a priority to beginners, and intermediate players. Of Course, one can NOT "Buy" their way into the Polished skill club, but neither can a skilled engineer make a Tascam 4 track, and a Radio Shack mic sound like a Neve, or SSL using a Neuman and a Urie and I don't care WHO is singing...
> 
> ALL the best gear in the world won't make a great artist out of someone, AND the best artist in the world won't be able to make the worst gear in the world sound like the best gear in the world (Sounding it's BEST) in an A/B comparisson. PERIOD
> 
> Great, you know how to play. You've been around. You've tech'd at GC, and had people wonder about how you've done this or that. Me too, difference is-- I am unsure if you've ever tech'd for any established artists-- I do, and wonder why you figure they have riders which specify certain specific gear, if it is SO insignificant.
> 
> Why do you intentionally not address the fact that certain gear has a characteristic tone/sonic stamp associated with it-- regardless of the player, and furthermore is chosen by players specifically for that reason. I am not talking about nobody's here... I'm talking about guys like Landau, Holdsworth, Robben Ford etc... CLEARLY they have the world class skills to separate them from anyone else out there, but THEY note what you seem to dismiss. Why is that?


----------



## Australian

Amongst the cannon fire theres a lot of good info being thrown about... carry on...


----------



## Wycked Lester

wow,... now see, you just trying to come of as a know it all,... and after the douchey and the full of shit comment,... id have to say a know it all dick.




zachman said:


> How come a Dobro doesn't sound like a $25K Spanish Classical guitar, when played by the same player, playing the exact same song, lick, riff, whatever...., as when he plays it on the Spanish Classical guitar???



havent' we already been thru this? ..... are you shitting me, first its clean twins and teles now its dobros and classicals ???? have ya ever heard the one about apples and oranges? ,... for fucks sake i already clarified this for you once but i guess i'll do it again....

THE OP, GOOSEY was asking about DA tone. WE HAD ALREADY MOTHER FUCKING ESTABLISHED THAT HE HAD BASICALLY THE SAME GUITAR, AMP, AND GEAR.
The advice that i was giving him was in order to get from where he is now, the rest of the way to DA tone was gonna require lots of practice PLAYING like DA.

I NEVER SAID GEAR DIDN'T MATTER AT ALL ,....I'VE ALREADY BEEN THRU THAT WITH YOU. Now your just beating a dead horse.....



zachman said:


> Let me hear your Flanger finger give off that Unchained sound...



your referring to an effect,...not basic core tone. which is awesome, because i can in fact 'fake' that sound with my hands well enough to fool any casual listner,.... just a little right had palm mute/harmonic slid just right down the strings and viola! 'faux flanger' ....you know what im talking about.

...and thats and example of tone being manupliated by your hands. hello.



zachman said:


> It comes across as douchey condescension, to say, "Tone is in the fingers kid".




Truth hurts bro....  even though thats not quite what I said.





zachman said:


> Th
> ANYONE that HAS to make the point to another beginning to intermediate player that gear doesn't matter, and that it's all the fingers, must suffer from short guy syndrome, and they are TOTALLY full of shit.



Here's where you can blow me,....
1 -My advice was to Goosey, not you.

2 -I get paid $40/hour to tech aprox 35 students per week. [along with my part time tech gig] I teach them something, THEN i hammer into their heads DONT PRACTICE TILL YOU GET IT RIGHT, PRACTICE TILL YOU NEVER GET IT WRONG!!! PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE. I'M A HUGE ADVOCATE OF IT. I've seen what the results can be and THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTION FOR PRACTICE. Guys like Doug, Vai, Yng, Gilbert, ect,....great players with great tone ....They ain't handed a gift from GOD,....the PRACTICED 8-10-12 HOURS A DAY,.....coincidence?..... I think not. I don't think alot of young players realize just how much it takes and how much of an important roll it plays when it comes to things like tone..

3 - Short Guy syndrome? ... not sure how to take that,.. I'm 6' talll, got a pretty big schlong, a smoking hot wife, and i get all my wycked ass guitar tones out of a guitar, single channel head and a few stompies. If ANYONE is compensating for something its you.....


----------



## dreyn77

When Mr Vai came here to play he requested 'xxxx' speakers, so we just gave him Vintage 30 speakers! He's not going to open the box and find out! Hahaha! that show sounded sort of 'Marshally'. Some guys have there control cavity plate taped up so no one can fiddle or look at stuff!


----------



## Wycked Lester

dreyn77 said:


> When Mr Vai came here to play he requested 'xxxx' speakers, so we just gave him Vintage 30 speakers! He's not going to open the box and find out! Hahaha! that show sounded sort of 'Marshally'. !





see, thats all in your head.

vintage 30's don't sound 'marshally' they sound 'celestiony'. Vintage 30's are speakers made by Celestion, and are standard issue in many cabinets in todays market, Mesa, Randall, Marshall, Orange, Trace Elliot, Avatar ect.... the list goes on and on .....

......the most interesting being the Carvin Legacy Steve Vai 4x12 signature cab which comes stock with ,.... you guessed it, Vintage 30's.


So see, there is NOTHING marshall about vintage 30's. That is just a correlation that you have made in your mind,... thus proving that in at least this case, young grasshopper, you were listening with your eyes.

Funny how that works sometimes.


----------



## Wycked Lester

dreyn77 said:


> Some guys have there control cavity plate taped up so no one can fiddle or look at stuff!



Mines taped because I lost the cover


----------



## zachman

Wycked Lester said:


> wow,... now see, you just trying to come of as a know it all,... and after the douchey and the full of shit comment,... id have to say a know it all dick.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> havent' we already been thru this? ..... are you shitting me, first its clean twins and teles now its dobros and classicals ???? have ya ever heard the one about apples and oranges? ,... for fucks sake i already clarified this for you once but i guess i'll do it again....
> 
> THE OP, GOOSEY was asking about DA tone. WE HAD ALREADY MOTHER FUCKING ESTABLISHED THAT HE HAD BASICALLY THE SAME GUITAR, AMP, AND GEAR.
> The advice that i was giving him was in order to get from where he is now, the rest of the way to DA tone was gonna require lots of practice PLAYING like DA.
> 
> I NEVER SAID GEAR DIDN'T MATTER AT ALL ,....I'VE ALREADY BEEN THRU THAT WITH YOU. Now your just beating a dead horse.....
> 
> 
> 
> your referring to an effect,...not basic core tone. which is awesome, because i can in fact 'fake' that sound with my hands well enough to fool any casual listner,.... just a little right had palm mute/harmonic slid just right down the strings and viola! 'faux flanger' ....you know what im talking about.
> 
> ...and thats and example of tone being manupliated by your hands. hello.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truth hurts bro....  even though thats not quite what I said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's where you can blow me,....
> 1 -My advice was to Goosey, not you.
> 
> 2 -I get paid $40/hour to tech aprox 35 students per week. [along with my part time tech gig] I teach them something, THEN i hammer into their heads DONT PRACTICE TILL YOU GET IT RIGHT, PRACTICE TILL YOU NEVER GET IT WRONG!!! PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE. I'M A HUGE ADVOCATE OF IT. I've seen what the results can be and THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTION FOR PRACTICE. Guys like Doug, Vai, Yng, Gilbert, ect,....great players with great tone ....They ain't handed a gift from GOD,....the PRACTICED 8-10-12 HOURS A DAY,.....coincidence?..... I think not. I don't think alot of young players realize just how much it takes and how much of an important roll it plays when it comes to things like tone..
> 
> 3 - Short Guy syndrome? ... not sure how to take that,.. I'm 6' talll, got a pretty big schlong, a smoking hot wife, and i get all my wycked ass guitar tones out of a guitar, single channel head and a few stompies. If ANYONE is compensating for something its you.....





First of all, I'm not a know it all, BUT I do KNOW what I know very well. Guys like Vai, Doug, Gilbert play w/ great skill, not always great tone, there's a difference that you don't seem to want to acknowledge-- not sure what that's about, but whatever-- Not that it'll make a difference to you, who most certainly is not only coming across as a know it all, but a condescending prick too, w/ an ego 6' tall and qualifying your comments giving your resume for working at guitar center of all places, part time for $40/hr. Give it a rest.

Gilbert-- Great guitarist, and a friend of mine. I used to rehearse next door to him, in California-- when he was in Racer X, and we used to hang and drink beer (Heineken) and talk gear and tone-- He acknowledged what I am talking about, and definitely has gear preferences for the tone it produces.

Flangers are an effect, and many have fundamentally different core "tones" about them, which I figure you already know, but were again just trying to be obtuse. Ask Gilbert about his, and the tones in it, and how they vary from other manufacturers.

Here's why blowing you isn't going to happen:

1. You were discussing the issue w/ not only the op, but w/ me too.

2. You say you make $40/hr part time teaching approximately 35 students, and have a part time tech job.... AND??? So WHAT. Most tech's aren't even qualified to turn on my radio let alone talk to me about the gear I use. For many of them, the closest they've ever gotten to this gear, is seeing pics of it in magazines or online. As a matter of fact most of the guys who come across like you, who call themselves tech's got the job NOT because they were qualified, rather because they were available. 

fwiw, if resumes are what you're into, and income being posted is your qualifier... I'll just let you go on thinking that you're all that and a bag of chips w/ what you posted, because I can tell you this-- if you think that is impressive to me-- it's not. It wouldn't even pay my electric bill. Grow up, or at least ACT your age

3. Your wicked ass guitar tones huh? Mmmkay Keep Rockin Rock star

Obviously ones body mass, touch, style, technique also play a part in the overall end result of what we hear and it plays a VERY significant role as to the final produced sonic character, but one's fingers aren't going to make a Dobro sound like a Les Paul through a Cranked Marshall Super Lead, nor make a Telecaster, through a Fender Twin sound like a Gibson J200.

I would say that those who know how to play AND know what gear to select to get the results they're after, and know how to dial in the gear necessary to get them the results they're after, AND have access to that gear, will likely not have too many complaints-- as far as their tools being sufficient or not-- While those who don't have all of those things have a greater likelihood of having an issue, or more.


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## crossroadsnyc

Not for nothing, but the first time I plugged into a flanger, Unchained didn't just flow from the speakers ... took me a little while to learn how to manipulate / use the effect properly.


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## zachman

crossroadsnyc said:


> Not for nothing, but the first time I plugged into a flanger, Unchained didn't just flow from the speakers ... took me a little while to learn how to manipulate / use the effect properly.



Wait... it didn't flow from your fingers-- from practice, practice, practice?? I kid, I kid... 

I had an old ADA flanger, and no matter how I set it-- it didn't have the same tone when I played through it, as when I used the MXR 117, and I definitely couldn't get it to do the unchained thing, where the MXR did (with the correct settings of course).


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## Wycked Lester

zachman said:


> .....Obviously ones body mass, touch, style, technique also play a part in the overall end result of what we hear and it plays a VERY significant role as to the final produced sonic character, but one's fingers aren't going to make a Dobro sound like a Les Paul through a Cranked Marshall Super Lead, nor make a Telecaster, through a Fender Twin sound like a Gibson J200.
> 
> .



Obviously


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## zachman

Wycked Lester said:


> Obviously



Yes! Those capable or not-- of making the distinctions, not withstanding. This is why the phrase that tone is in the fingers, doesn't serve the overall best interest of those in an online gear forum, very well. At best, it serves as a poor communicative construct. At worst it is a tool used in a derogatory fashion against those who are trying to learn-- usually used by some douche who is a never was, or is only a legend in his own mind, or by an elitist prick. Don't get me wrong-- there are guys on the collector side of the equation who amount to the same thing. ALL talk, and don't walk the walk, and act as though because they can afford good gear, that somehow that equates to them being an expert on it or that they're somehow proficient utilizing it.

AND if you're an engineer, and are interested in learning how to use gear and maximize the tone it produces, FOR those who are playing in a recording studio or live setting-- learning how to play the guitar is pretty freakin irrelevant. Just saying... from one tech to supposedly another


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## Wycked Lester

.


zachman said:


> Yes! Those capable or not-- of making the distinctions, not withstanding. This is why the phrase that tone is in the fingers, doesn't serve the overall best interest of those in an online gear forum, very well. At best, it serves as a poor communicative construct. At worst it is a tool used in a derogatory fashion against those who are trying to learn.



Maybe in general, but not in the context/conversation i was having. 



zachman said:


> ...and qualifying your comments giving your resume for working at guitar center of all places, part time for $40/hr. Give it a rest.



uh, no,...

I said i teach lessons for $40/hour . ....i am only a part time tech at gc



zachman said:


> As a matter of fact most of the guys who call themselves tech's got the job NOT because they were qualified, rather because they were available.



yea, thats me,... maybe a little of both.

I didn't reference my job as tech because i think THAT makes me an authority on anything.... you assume way too much.

I only work about 20hr / week there,.... enough to keep me a steady flow of students, which i teach out of my house. And enough to allow me to buy all the gear i want at cost. 

The reason i referenced that job is simply because, as i said,... I'm always sitting around there doddlin around and jammin around on the shit after i fix it, and its amazing to me how many people will come up and comment on how good whatever guitar sounds,... and when they see its a squire or whatever they imeadiately think it must be the amp,.... And they will actually ask what amp im playing thru.... Because they cant see it,....cuz its under the bench.... But when they do see its a 10w crate the confusion grows even more ... so then its like 'hmm, well what pickups are they' and the questions go on and on,.... cuz they don't realize that the tone i'm getting is comming from years and years of shitloads of practice..... NOT a special 'thing' you can buy at a store. 



zachman said:


> fwiw, if resumes are what you're into, and income being posted is your qualifier... I'll just let you go on thinking that you're all that and a bag of chips w/ what you posted, because I can tell you this-- if you think that is impressive to me-- it's not. It wouldn't even pay my electric bill. Grow up, or at least ACT your age



now your a pompus ass. 

This was never about income,....believe me i'm ok there,... i gots just as many toyz as you do. 

The point i was making is that i chg $40/hour to teach - thats more than anyone else in my area,....but i still have more students than most teachers in my area. Thats because i produce KICK ASS STUDENTS. I will proudly put my best students against anyone elses best students in this area.... 

Why? Because I love what i do, i don't just do it for the money. So it is important to me that they grow and understand more and more every week. And i see to it that they do so by not only teaching them a bunch of riffs and theory, but teaching them HOW to practice and making sure that they realize the absolute importance of it.... and constantly challenging them to make sure they do their homework.

This is what i ment by 'I've seen the results and they are undeniable'



As far as you and i are concerned, im done with this conversation.. You are making it out to be WAY more than what it is. You have been doing this forever and so have I. You see it your way, and I see it mine. Whatever works for you, i couldn't care less. 

Like i said many posts ago, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one and that is fine with me yo.


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## zachman

Wycked Lester said:


> .
> 
> Maybe in general, but not in the context/conversation i was having.
> 
> 
> 
> uh, no,...
> 
> I said i teach lessons for $40/hour . ....i am only a part time tech at gc
> 
> 
> 
> yea, thats me,... maybe a little of both.
> 
> I didn't reference my job as tech because i think THAT makes me an authority on anything.... you assume way too much.
> 
> I only work about 20hr / week there,.... enough to keep me a steady flow of students, which i teach out of my house. And enough to allow me to buy all the gear i want at cost.
> 
> The reason i referenced that job is simply because, as i said,... I'm always sitting around there doddlin around and jammin around on the shit after i fix it, and its amazing to me how many people will come up and comment on how good whatever guitar sounds,... and when they see its a squire or whatever they imeadiately think it must be the amp,.... And they will actually ask what amp im playing thru.... Because they cant see it,....cuz its under the bench.... But when they do see its a 10w crate the confusion grows even more ... so then its like 'hmm, well what pickups are they' and the questions go on and on,.... cuz they don't realize that the tone i'm getting is comming from years and years of shitloads of practice..... NOT a special 'thing' you can buy at a store.
> 
> 
> 
> now your a pompus ass.
> 
> This was never about income,....believe me i'm ok there,... i gots just as many toyz as you do.
> 
> The point i was making is that i chg $40/hour to teach - thats more than anyone else in my area,....but i still have more students than most teachers in my area. Thats because i produce KICK ASS STUDENTS. I will proudly put my best students against anyone elses best students in this area....
> 
> Why? Because I love what i do, i don't just do it for the money. So it is important to me that they grow and understand more and more every week. And i see to it that they do so by not only teaching them a bunch of riffs and theory, but teaching them HOW to practice and making sure that they realize the absolute importance of it.... and constantly challenging them to make sure they do their homework.
> 
> This is what i ment by 'I've seen the results and they are undeniable'
> 
> 
> 
> As far as you and i are concerned, im done with this conversation.. You are making it out to be WAY more than what it is. You have been doing this forever and so have I. You see it your way, and I see it mine. Whatever works for you, i couldn't care less.
> 
> Like i said many posts ago, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one and that is fine with me yo.



Ya, I'm done w/ you. You're dismissed. BTW it's "You're a pompous ass", not "your" a pompous ass

You have as many toys as me?  Not that it matters, but I wonder... why such a secure guy as you would feel the need to go there.

I am a sound rental company and a retail music store, and am involved in various entrepreneurial projects, ranging from real estate, to commercial recording studios






My gf says hi, but doubts you have as many toys as me:


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## Wycked Lester

well, maybe not, but my wife is definately hotter.


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## zachman

Wycked Lester said:


> well, maybe not, but my wife is definately hotter.


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## SwampThing

Wycked Lester said:


> .
> ,... "i gots just as many toyz as you do".
> 
> No.......You dont.
> 
> "I will proudly put my best students against anyone elses best students in this area.... "
> 
> 
> Im your Huckleberry.


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## zachman

SwampThing said:


> Wycked Lester said:
> 
> 
> 
> .
> ,... "i gots just as many toyz as you do".
> 
> No.......You dont.
> 
> "I will proudly put my best students against anyone elses best students in this area.... "
> 
> 
> Im your Huckleberry.
Click to expand...


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## dreyn77

Jeezz, I which people could take photos of the beach with out some rich guy parking his silver bullet and that red blob in the water in the way! and you'll have to take that photo of the fresco in the floor again cause some lovely lady sped past just as you took the photo, look she even had a smile on her face. she knew she was getting in your picture. Ah Hawaii, it's so 'over crowded' these days!


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## zachman

dreyn77 said:


> Jeezz, I which people could take photos of the beach with out some rich guy parking his silver bullet and that red blob in the water in the way! and you'll have to take that photo of the fresco in the floor again cause some lovely lady sped past just as you took the photo, look she even had a smile on her face. she knew she was getting in your picture. Ah Hawaii, it's so 'over crowded' these days!



As you wish:























Lovely lady says life is good, be happy


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## Wycked Lester

zachman said:


> Most tech's aren't even qualified to turn on my radio let alone talk to me about the gear I use. .





zachman said:


> you, who most certainly is not only coming across as a know it all, but a condescending prick too, w/ an ego 6' tall and .



Irony


btw, are you sure that chic's not your sister?


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## crossroadsnyc

Good debate ... let's call it a draw! 

Thread closed.


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