# Marshall prices US vs. Europe



## Heiko Jakob

Hi,

i wonder why prices for Marshall are so much higher in the US, at Sweetwater, Guitar Center, ... compared to European retailers like Thomann, Music Store, Session ...
The same Marshall stack 1959HW/MR1960AHW/MR1960BHW Sweetwater vs. Thomann.
Even with shipping, customs, etc.... it still would be a bargain at dual voltage devices like the 1959HW that can be operated on 110V/60Hz. It wouldn't work for 230V/50Hz fixes devices.


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## anitoli

I didn't think they could ship to the US.


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## Heiko Jakob

anitoli said:


> I didn't think they could ship to the US.


At least Thomann explicitly does. And there are a lot of reviews from the US on Thomanns Harley Benton in house brand guitars on the web.


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## Adieu

I believe that Marshall had forced its authorized Europe dealers to not ship to North America sometime ~2020 - 21


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## anitoli

I think it applied to Marshall products. Marshall has a US distributor.


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## Frodebro

I think this was brought up here before, and it was determined that Marshall dealers cannot sell or ship outside of their authorized areas.


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## Heiko Jakob

Adieu said:


> I believe that Marshall had forced its authorized Europe dealers to not ship to North America sometime ~2020 - 21


That would violate EU price fixing laws.


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## Frodebro

Heiko Jakob said:


> That would violate EU price fixing laws.



I think it's more a distribution thing than pricing. And because it prevents European dealers from shipping outside of Europe, it seems that it is beyond the jurisdiction of European laws anyway. But I'm no expert on international retail laws, so don't quote me on that.


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## anitoli

Less Marshall more Korg.


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## DreamerDeceiver

anitoli said:


> I didn't think they could ship to the US.




Why would you really want it after the brutal beating that it would take? Could you imagine what those parcels would look like shipped from UK...lol


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## anitoli

Korg has the distributorship for USA and maybe North America? They are not going to let another distributor or authorized dealer from outside the US to sell in their territory.


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## Heiko Jakob

anitoli said:


> Korg has the distributorship for USA and maybe North America? They are not going to let another distributor or authorized dealer from outside the US to sell in their territory.


There is no way they can enforce this legally.


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## Frodebro

Heiko Jakob said:


> There is no way they can enforce this legally.



European laws generally do not apply in North America, much like North American laws do not apply in Europe.


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## anitoli

Try setting up a music shop across the street from Thomann's store and try getting a Marshall dealership in your store. They are gonna tell you to piss off, the other guy has a guaranteed area. Now when you throw in online sales this is where it gets all screwy.


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## Heiko Jakob

Frodebro said:


> European laws generally do not apply in North America, much like North American laws do not apply in Europe.


But Thomann is located in Europe, therfore the online sale is done in europe.


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## Frodebro

Heiko Jakob said:


> But Thomann is located in Europe, therfore the online sale is done in europe.



But the transaction would be originating outside of Europe...


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## Heiko Jakob

anitoli said:


> Try setting up a music shop across the street from Thomann's store and try getting a Marshall dealership in your store. They are gonna tell you to piss off, the other guy has a guaranteed area. Now when you throw in online sales this is where it gets all screwy.


That won't be a problem, because Fender, Thomann, Roland and Music Store just got sued for similar price fixing and i'm pretty sure the millions in fines are a wakeup call to some in the music industry.

The forum doesn't allow for links because i'm new to the forum so you have to google it yourself: "Fender Yamaha Thomann Roland Music Store fined"


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## Heiko Jakob

Frodebro said:


> But the transaction would be originating outside of Europe...


Well, we could easily find out if some one would order one ... But they offer shipping to the US for this bundle so i'd guess it won't be a problem.


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## Frodebro

Heiko Jakob said:


> That won't be a problem, because Fender, Thomann, Roland and Music Store just got sued for similar price fixing and i'm pretty sure the millions in fines are a wakeup call to some in the music industry.
> 
> The forum doesn't allow for links because i'm new to the forum so you have to google it yourself: "Fender Yamaha Thomann Roland Music Store fined"



Thing is, this has nothing to do with pricing and everything to do with established dealer territories.


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## anitoli

The thing is ( i can't locate the thread) someone here tried to order Marshall from Thomann UK and when they got to the payment stage a pop up told them they can't ship to the US. I wish i could find the thread.


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## Ray Baker

Marshall Amplification Plc | See Recent Shipments | ImportGenius


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## PaulHikeS2

I went to the site. I tried adding a Fender Strat to my cart and when I went to checkout it was blocked - they can't sell Fender in the US. But I put a Marshall SV20H in my cart and I apparently can have it at my door on Monday for $871 including shipping. Or I could pay Sweetwater $1499.


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## Adieu

Heiko Jakob said:


> That would violate EU price fixing laws.



EU price fixing laws prevent UK (=non-EU) companies from charging higher prices to NON-EU customers?


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## ricksdisconnected

DreamerDeceiver said:


> Why would you really want it after the brutal beating that it would take? Could you imagine what those parcels would look like shipped from UK...lol




besides, we have Friedman.


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## Dogs of Doom

PaulHikeS2 said:


> I went to the site. I tried adding a Fender Strat to my cart and when I went to checkout it was blocked - they can't sell Fender in the US. But I put a Marshall SV20H in my cart and I apparently can have it at my door on Monday for $871 including shipping. Or I could pay Sweetwater $1499.


it does say this:



I wonder if the power trans' can be wired for US...


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## SkyMonkey

Has no one spotted the line under the 1959 price?

"The prices shown exclude VAT" (Value Added Tax).

In the UK that is 20%.

So $3,599 x 1.2 = $4,319

Is that still a good US price?


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## BlueX

PaulHikeS2 said:


> I went to the site. I tried adding a Fender Strat to my cart and when I went to checkout it was blocked - they can't sell Fender in the US. But I put a Marshall SV20H in my cart and I apparently can have it at my door on Monday for $871 including shipping. Or I could pay Sweetwater $1499.



Interesting! I wonder how they can maintain a more than 70% markup, when this import option exists (nowadays, when people are used to shop globally)?

Would there be any customs fee? When I import directly from the US (to Sweden), I have to pay a fee that's outside the price including shipping that I get from the seller.


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## BlueX

PaulHikeS2 said:


> I went to the site. I tried adding a Fender Strat to my cart and when I went to checkout it was blocked - they can't sell Fender in the US. But I put a Marshall SV20H in my cart and I apparently can have it at my door on Monday for $871 including shipping. Or I could pay Sweetwater $1499.



What would happen if you told e.g. Sweetwater that you have an offer for $871 for the exact same product (instead of $1499)?

I want to support local business (for service, etc., and to have a living community), but I don't accept too big price difference. I often ask if they can match web prices, and if they come close enough they get that deal.


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## Heiko Jakob

Dogs of Doom said:


> I wonder if the power trans' can be wired for US...



For the 1959hw it's not a problem a quarter or a dime couldn't solve.


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## Heiko Jakob

Adieu said:


> EU price fixing laws prevent UK (=non-EU) companies from charging higher prices to NON-EU customers?


It applies to EU dealers like Music Store, Thomann, Session Music, ... no matter with whom they do business.


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## Dogs of Doom

Heiko Jakob said:


> For the 1959hw it's not a problem a quarter or a dime couldn't solve.
> View attachment 94171


on the SV20 the back looks like this:


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## Heiko Jakob

Dogs of Doom said:


> on the SV20 the back looks like this:



As i already said at the very beginning of the thread ...


Heiko Jakob said:


> ... it still would be a bargain at dual voltage devices like the 1959HW that can be operated on 110V/60Hz. It wouldn't work for 230V/50Hz fixes devices.


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## playloud

SkyMonkey said:


> Has no one spotted the line under the 1959 price?
> 
> "The prices shown exclude VAT" (Value Added Tax).
> 
> In the UK that is 20%.
> 
> So $3,599 x 1.2 = $4,319
> 
> Is that still a good US price?



According to the original post it would be!

But regardless, amps are duty-free in the US. You might have to pay a small customs brokerage fee to the courier, but that would be pretty negligible on an order this large. You'd also have to pay state sales tax (although you might get away with it tbh), but you'd have to pay that on a domestic order (e.g. Sweetwater) too.



Frodebro said:


> Thing is, this has nothing to do with pricing and everything to do with established dealer territories.



It is directly related to pricing. It might not be "price fixing" in the strict sense, but it falls under the general category of "anticompetitive behaviour", which is likely to be considered by regulators. 

If you have two geographically-restricted markets A and B, and a retailer in market B could offer a consumer in market A a lower price than anything they can buy from a retailer in market A, then the price for that consumer is artificially fixed at the lowest price a retailer in market A is willing to offer.


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## Heiko Jakob

Question got solved: a guy on Facebook from the US posted he just bought a half stack from Thomann and had it shipped to the US. Thomann sells the 1959HW and the 1960A to the US, but not the 1960B due to weight restrictions (49kg for regular air freight per parcel, the 1960B having 49.3 kg while the 1960A is 48.55 kg).


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## PelliX

Heiko Jakob said:


> Question got solved: a guy on Facebook from the US posted he just bought a half stack from Thomann and had it shipped to the US. Thomann sells the 1959HW and the 1960A to the US, but not the 1960B due to weight restrictions (49kg for regular air freight per parcel, the 1960B having 49.3 kg while the 1960A is 48.55 kg).



So let them remove a speaker and ship that separately. That'll easily shave off the 300g. I've honestly never bought a cab 'new' - do they come with 'accessories' like a manual, cable, etc? If so, let 'em keep that.


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## Adieu

Dogs of Doom said:


> on the SV20 the back looks like this:
> 
> View attachment 94174



You could still run it off a transformer for like 40-50 bucks


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## Dogs of Doom

Adieu said:


> You could still run it off a transformer for like 40-50 bucks


the last thing I need is another gadget to plug in another gadget...


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## Dogs of Doom

anitoli said:


> The thing is ( i can't locate the thread) someone here tried to order Marshall from Thomann UK and when they got to the payment stage a pop up told them they can't ship to the US. I wish i could find the thread.


I don't think it was Thomann, I think it was a UK retailer...

I remember someone buying cheap from Peach Music. Maybe someone tried ordering from PMT?


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## WellBurnTheSky

I'm always amazed at US prices: a 1960BHW is 879€ (shipped, with 20% VAT included) here in Europe, nowhere near the RIDICULOUS 1799$ tag from Sweetwater...


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## anitoli

WellBurnTheSky said:


> I'm always amazed at US prices: a 1960BHW is 879€ (shipped, with 20% VAT included) here in Europe, nowhere near the RIDICULOUS 1799$ tag from Sweetwater...


I think the USA is teetering on the edge of hyper inflation. Printing endless amounts of money has it's side effects. In the history of the world every fiat currency has failed, 100%, and the US dollar is fiat.


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## PelliX

anitoli said:


> I think the USA is teetering on the edge of hyper inflation. Printing endless amounts of money has it's side effects. In the history of the world every fiat currency has failed, 100%, and the US dollar is fiat.



I agree, but I would expect 'everyday pricing' to follow the exchange rate, give or take. I don't claim to know why, but was recently confronted with some US prices and I thought it was a misprint.


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## Heiko Jakob

PelliX said:


> So let them remove a speaker and ship that separately. That'll easily shave off the 300g. I've honestly never bought a cab 'new' - do they come with 'accessories' like a manual, cable, etc? If so, let 'em keep that.


I think putting the parcel on a weight gauge and relabel it with the real thirty odd kg weight would be sufficient.


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## Heiko Jakob

WellBurnTheSky said:


> I'm always amazed at US prices: a 1960BHW is 879€ (shipped, with 20% VAT included) here in Europe, nowhere near the RIDICULOUS 1799$ tag from Sweetwater...


Don't forget to add the state sales tax on that ridiculous price tag. US prices are always without the bad stuff, while EU prices already have the bad stuff included by law.


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## PelliX

This is why "second hand" is now called "pre-owned" in the US, right?  (I think the late George Carlin had a line about that one...)


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## Heiko Jakob

PelliX said:


> This is why "second hand" is now called "pre-owned" in the US, right?  (I think the late George Carlin had a line about that one...)


Today i discovered that my Headrush Pedalboard that sold for $750 2-3 years ago now sells for $1100 *. Once upon a time electronics got cheaper day by day. Faster devaluation of money then devaluation of electronics is somehow scary.

Update: * at GC and Sweetwater in the US. Export price from most European dealers is still ~ $US 850


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## BlueX

Current Swedish prices for US made gear, as a comparison. Including all taxes and freight, and all products available to order.
- Gibson Les Paul Standard 50's: SEK 23 000 (about USD 2 400), same price since Nov last year
- Fender American Professional II Stratocaster: SEK 18 000 (about USD 1 900), same price Oct last year
- Mesa Boogie Fillmore 25 Head: SEK 18 000 (about USD 1 900), price Oct last year SEK 22 000 (about USD 2 400)


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## DougUSMC

I think this thread just saved my mental sanity. I've been stalking both the forum Classifieds and Sweetwater for about a year, looking for a 1959. Since all the COVID-craziness with shipping and parts, I've had zero luck. Here in the US, it's been really hard to get our hands on anything from Marshall that's not solid state.
I just clicked the "Buy now" button on Thomann, and am waiting for the confirmation email. I had no problem adding to cart, entering my shipping address, and checking out with Paypal. Hopefully I get a confirmation email soon, then I'll know for a fact when the new head that I got for HALF PRICE is going to show up.
Yup, Sweetwater is listing them for $3700 USD, and my final shipped price from Thomann was right around $2000USD.


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## Heiko Jakob

DougUSMC said:


> Hopefully I get a confirmation email soon, then I'll know for a fact when the new head that I got for HALF PRICE is going to show up.



Don't forget to adjust the voltage selector and replace the fuse before you plug it in.


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## DougUSMC

Heiko Jakob said:


> Don't forget to adjust the voltage selector and replace the fuse before you plug it in.



Absolutely, thanks! TBH, I didn't know about the fuse, but "check out Youtube for how to use a EU Marshall in the US" was on the to do list for tonight. Do you think it'll come with both fuses?

Also, weird: I went to the site, added the amp to my cart, and checked out with "Price A". A few minutes later I got the "Welcome to the store... here's your new user account" email. I went, set a password, then immediately started price-shopping other amps. I noticed they were a bit higher than I recalled, and realized that my "Store" had been changed from a German one to a UK store. I then went and checked the price of a 1959HW in the UK store, and it too was higher (~ $200 IIRC). 
Am I misremembering, or do I now have to figure out a way to reset my store to Germany?


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## Heiko Jakob

DougUSMC said:


> Absolutely, thanks! TBH, I didn't know about the fuse, but "check out Youtube for how to use a EU Marshall in the US" was on the to do list for tonight. Do you think it'll come with both fuses?


Maybe you could write 'em a email that they should add a matching fuse or use the quarter you use to turn the voltage selector to buy a matching fuse at radio shack. But i think they will add the fuse for free if you ask nicely. Their service usually is top notch.

Tha manual is also very clear about what to do:
"The mains selector must be set to the voltage of the mains supply. Your amp should be completely powered down before the selector is turned."
"Warning: for each voltage setting, the correct value and type of mains fuse and H.T fuse must be fitted. Adjustments from 230/220V to 110V or vice versa will require the mains fuse to be changed to the corresponding value as detailed on the rear panel. For more information, please refer to the Mains Electricity Supply and Output Impedance section of this guide."

https://marshall.com/downloads/downloadfile/834fe5e2-64b4-46a9-802f-5cf26eae8520



DougUSMC said:


> Also, weird: I went to the site, added the amp to my cart, and checked out with "Price A". A few minutes later I got the "Welcome to the store... here's your new user account" email. I went, set a password, then immediately started price-shopping other amps.


Be carefull while shopping for mains wired stuff. You must be sure that it's a dual voltage 50/60Hz capable device like the 1959HW. The Jubilee f.e. is also cheaper in europe, but isn't dual voltage capable.



DougUSMC said:


> I noticed they were a bit higher than I recalled, and realized that my "Store" had been changed from a German one to a UK store. I then went and checked the price of a 1959HW in the UK store, and it too was higher (~ $200 IIRC).
> Am I misremembering, or do I now have to figure out a way to reset my store to Germany?



My best guess would be it depends on the domain your using. thomanmusic.com or thomann.de


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## DougUSMC

Heiko Jakob said:


> Maybe you could write 'em a email that they should add a matching fuse or use the quarter you use to turn the voltage selector to buy a matching fuse at radio shack. But i think they will add the fuse for free if you ask nicely. Their service usually is top notch.



I'd think about that, but I don't want to do anything that would make it take longer to get here! The checkout page had shipping details saying that it would be here Wednesday. It doesn't even look like it's shipped yet, so IDK how they'll pull that off. I still don't want to do anything that would slow it down and keep it from getting here by the weekend! 



Heiko Jakob said:


> Tha manual is also very clear about what to do:
> "The mains selector must be set to the voltage of the mains supply. Your amp should be completely powered down before the selector is turned."
> "Warning: for each voltage setting, the correct value and type of mains fuse and H.T fuse must be fitted. Adjustments from 230/220V to 110V or vice versa will require the mains fuse to be changed to the corresponding value as detailed on the rear panel. For more information, please refer to the Mains Electricity Supply and Output Impedance section of this guide."



Awesome, thanks. The instructions crack me up, they basically said "read the back panel". Blowing up that image makes it look like its a T6.252A250V and a T1A250V. I don't even know where to find a radio shack now-a-days, but I suspect Amazon can get one here in a couple of days.




Heiko Jakob said:


> Be carefull while shopping for mains wired stuff. You must be sure that it's a dual voltage 50/60Hz capable device like the 1959HW. The Jubilee f.e. is also cheaper in europe, but isn't dual voltage capable.


It's like you're in my head man! I was already thinking about a Jubilee 1/2 stack, or a JTM 45, but it looks like neither of them have a voltage switch. Both of those have a 100/110V fuse identified, but they only show 230 for the power input.... 



Heiko Jakob said:


> My best guess would be it depends on the domain your using. thomanmusic.com or thomann.de



I don't know? I checked the .com address and it auto-forwards to .de. In the top right corner it shows my shop as GB and my currency as $. Weird that I can still see it, but now it's $2300? I can even see the price I paid under "my orders" and it's less than $2k. I'm just going to chalk it up to luck, and hope it actually ships...


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## Heiko Jakob

DougUSMC said:


> I'd think about that, but I don't want to do anything that would make it take longer to get here! The checkout page had shipping details saying that it would be here Wednesday. It doesn't even look like it's shipped yet, so IDK how they'll pull that off. I still don't want to do anything that would slow it down and keep it from getting here by the weekend!



I've asked that guy on facebook and he said his halfstack made it within 5 days over the pond to his door.



DougUSMC said:


> Awesome, thanks. The instructions crack me up, they basically said "read the back panel". Blowing up that image makes it look like its a T6.252A250V and a T1A250V. I don't even know where to find a radio shack now-a-days, but I suspect Amazon can get one here in a couple of days.


The backpanel of my 1959hw. Don't forget to buy a US power cord.


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## Heiko Jakob

DougUSMC said:


> I checked the .com address and it auto-forwards to .de. In the top right corner it shows my shop as GB and my currency as $. Weird that I can still see it, but now it's $2300? I can even see the price I paid under "my orders" and it's less than $2k. I'm just going to chalk it up to luck, and hope it actually ships...



Just checked. It's still below $US 2k


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## DougUSMC

Heiko Jakob said:


> Just checked. It's still below $US 2k



So weird! That's the price I paid, and this is what I see this morning (on the .de site)...


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## Heiko Jakob

You have to change the country to US to get the export price without VAT. UK prices still include VAT.


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## DougUSMC

Heiko Jakob said:


> You have to change the country to US to get the export price without VAT. UK prices still include VAT.



I'd done that many times, and it didn't work. Then I noticed the "Save Settings" button, that changed things from this:




To this:



More interestingly, changing the currency to USD up top, changed it to this:



Note the top banner changing from black to white. Changing to USD kicked me from the "thomann.de" site to the "thomannmusic.com" site automatically.


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## Heiko Jakob

Now it makes sense.
2300 $US = UK price in $US incl. VAT and shipping
1939 $US = US export price in $US without VAT and without shipping 
1680 € = US export price in € without VAT and without shipping


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## DougUSMC

Heiko Jakob said:


> Now it makes sense.
> 2300 $US = UK price in $US incl. VAT and shipping
> 1939 $US = US export price in $US without VAT and without shipping
> 1680 € = US export price in € without VAT and without shipping



Yup, I think it all came down to me making those changes and failing to hit Save. IDK how I got the $1939 price the first time though, unless it fixed itself during checkout when I entered my address and it defaulted to the (only) US shipping method (UPS). 

So, I can "guess" why Marshalls are so much cheaper (almost half price) when buying from a European vendor (taxes, tariffs, duties, etc), but NOW "Why are Celestions almost the same price?"


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## Heiko Jakob

DougUSMC said:


> So, I can "guess" why Marshalls are so much cheaper (almost half price) when buying from a European vendor (taxes, tariffs, duties, etc), but NOW "Why are Celestions almost the same price?"


Well, the advertised GC/Sweetwater price of $US 3699 for the head is also not incuding state tax.


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## DougUSMC

Heiko Jakob said:


> Well, the advertised GC/Sweetwater price of $US 3699 for the head is also not incuding state tax.



Yeah, agreed. IDK if you're here in the states or over in EU, but that's normal for us. Each state has different tax, anywhere from 0% to almost 10%. That's why most sites calculate it at checkout: They want people to compare apples to apples when price shopping online, and only add it in at the end when they know the shipping address.

I'm guessing that the huge difference (almost 2x at Sweetwater, and just about every other site I could find in the US) is largely due to the things I mentioned (MAP, duties, tariffs, etc). It would also explain why our guitars (Fender, Gibson, PRS, etc) are so much more expensive over there. If that's the case though, I'm still wondering why I don't see Celestion speakers (made in England) similarly costing 1/2 as much if I buy them from Thomann?


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## Heiko Jakob

DougUSMC said:


> Yeah, agreed. IDK if you're here in the states or over in EU, but that's normal for us. Each state has different tax, anywhere from 0% to almost 10%. That's why most sites calculate it at checkout: They want people to compare apples to apples when price shopping online, and only add it in at the end when they know the shipping address.


In the EU each country has it's own VAT rate, but it always the rate in the country of the seller. And advertised prices in the EU are mandated to be checkout prices including all taxes. The UK pricing is a bit odd due to brexit.



DougUSMC said:


> I'm guessing that the huge difference (almost 2x at Sweetwater, and just about every other site I could find in the US) is largely due to the things I mentioned (MAP, duties, tariffs, etc). It would also explain why our guitars (Fender, Gibson, PRS, etc) are so much more expensive over there.


In Germany it's more the 20% VAT that hurts ...
Fender and Gibson guitars are almost identical priced around the globe. Export price $1944 vs $1999 for a Ultra Strat is a marginal difference. But the exchange rate is 1€ = $1.20 ... So the price in € including german VAT is €1999






DougUSMC said:


> If that's the case though, I'm still wondering why I don't see Celestion speakers (made in England) similarly costing 1/2 as much if I buy them from Thomann?



As i said usually products are quite the same (net) price around the globe. How either Marshall, their US distributor or a cartell of GC/Sweetwater ripps of their US customers is a shame.


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## DougUSMC

Heiko Jakob said:


> In the EU each country has it's own VAT rate, but it always the rate in the country of the seller. And advertised prices in the EU are mandated to be checkout prices including all taxes. The UK pricing is a bit odd due to brexit.


That's definitely different than here. In the US each state has a different tax rates than others (which sounds the same as your VAT differences), but the rate is based on the location of the buyer. For us it's to prevent buyers from making online purchases from other states vs. buying in their home state. While that could save buyers money, it would be at the expense of the state not being paid proper taxes. That's the main reason that online prices don't include tax when advertising: depending on where you are buying it from, the tax could be different. 



Heiko Jakob said:


> In Germany it's more the 20% VAT that hurts ...
> Fender and Gibson guitars are almost identical priced around the globe. Export price $1944 vs $1999 for a Ultra Strat is a marginal difference. But the exchange rate is 1€ = $1.20 ... So the price in € including german VAT is €1999



Interesting. I wonder if that's because the US has higher duties/tariff on incoming goods than Europe? It would be annoying to me to hear that I'm over paying because EU shops sell at a lower profit?



Heiko Jakob said:


> As i said usually products are quite the same (net) price around the globe. How either Marshall, their US distributor or a cartell of GC/Sweetwater ripps of their US customers is a shame.



Now I'm starting to wonder if it's a US distributor? There's no way a cartel of GC/Sweetwater could corner the market like that. It would take a hot minute before someone like me opened our own store and undercut GC and SW, and stole all their business. The only thing that would prevent that would be either the distributor refusing to sell to me, or Marshall requiring a higher MAP. 

Trying to see if it's other Brit amps: 
An Orange Rockerverb 100 is $2149 from SW, and $1899 on Thomann. ($250 and 13% difference)
A Vox AC30 is $1299 on SW and $869 on Thomann. ($430 and 49% difference)
The 1959HW was $3699 on SW and $1939 on Thomann. ($1760 and 90% difference)

The Marshall is far and away the biggest outlier, but the numbers are all over the place!


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## Heiko Jakob

DougUSMC said:


> That's definitely different than here. In the US each state has a different tax rates than others (which sounds the same as your VAT differences), but the rate is based on the location of the buyer. For us it's to prevent buyers from making online purchases from other states vs. buying in their home state. While that could save buyers money, it would be at the expense of the state not being paid proper taxes. That's the main reason that online prices don't include tax when advertising: depending on where you are buying it from, the tax could be different.



In Europe it's on the seller, because all that online trade arose after the EU market got harmonized with competitive taxes. They wouldn't have done that back then if they had known what the internet will do for trade. Now it's too late to get 26 states to agree on changing it.



DougUSMC said:


> Interesting. I wonder if that's because the US has higher duties/tariff on incoming goods than Europe? It would be annoying to me to hear that I'm over paying because EU shops sell at a lower profit?


The EU has no import tariff on amps, but 3.2% on guitars
Guitars -> TARIC 9202903000 -> 3.2%
Amps -> TARIC 8518500090 -> 0%
https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/dds2/taric/taric_consultation.jsp?Lang=en

For the US tariffs i wasn't able to interpret the meaning of 'Column 2' tariffs. I'm too dumb for US gov stuff.
https://hts.usitc.gov/

*UPDATE*
I found another US customs database that is actual usable. 'Column 2' refers to non-NTR countries. Namely: Cuba and North Korea.


So US import tariffs on amps is 0% 
https://dataweb.usitc.gov/tariff/database/details/85185000

Guitars are 8.7% import tariff
https://dataweb.usitc.gov/tariff/database/details/92029040



DougUSMC said:


> Trying to see if it's other Brit amps:
> An Orange Rockerverb 100 is $2149 from SW, and $1899 on Thomann. ($250 and 13% difference)
> A Vox AC30 is $1299 on SW and $869 on Thomann. ($430 and 49% difference)
> The 1959HW was $3699 on SW and $1939 on Thomann. ($1760 and 90% difference)
> 
> The Marshall is far and away the biggest outlier, but the numbers are all over the place!


Somebody on the US market is making a fortune on guitar players.


----------



## BlueX

DougUSMC said:


> Trying to see if it's other Brit amps:
> An Orange Rockerverb 100 is $2149 from SW, and $1899 on Thomann. ($250 and 13% difference)
> A Vox AC30 is $1299 on SW and $869 on Thomann. ($430 and 49% difference)
> The 1959HW was $3699 on SW and $1939 on Thomann. ($1760 and 90% difference)
> 
> The Marshall is far and away the biggest outlier, but the numbers are all over the place!



Maybe assumed price sensitivity. 1959HW might be seen as a high end product, that can carry the mark-up.


----------



## anitoli

No you are not too dumb to figure out US tax code, it's deliberately confusing so they can keep bending you over.....................


----------



## Heiko Jakob

BlueX said:


> Maybe assumed price sensitivity. 1959HW might be seen as a high end product, that can carry the mark-up.


But a 90% upcharge you can avoid with a new power cord, a dime to turn the voltage selector and two fuses you can buy for a quarter ?


----------



## BlueX

Heiko Jakob said:


> But a 90% upcharge you can avoid with a new power cord, a dime to turn the voltage selector and two fuses you can buy for a quarter ?



I fully agree with you, but it seems like it has been possible so far. I can't tell how many 1959HW they've sold at this price, though.

I also live in Europe, and benefit in full from our open, common market.


----------



## Adieu

anitoli said:


> I think the USA is teetering on the edge of hyper inflation. Printing endless amounts of money has it's side effects. In the history of the world every fiat currency has failed, 100%, and the US dollar is fiat.



In the long-term history of the world, everything has failed, period.

The cradle of civilization is infested with ISIS and its ilk. Rome got hijacked by Christians. The Chinese Empire got taken over by communists. Etc.


----------



## playloud

anitoli said:


> I think the USA is teetering on the edge of hyper inflation. Printing endless amounts of money has it's side effects. In the history of the world every fiat currency has failed, 100%, and the US dollar is fiat.



"Hyperinflation" is typically defined as a 50% _monthly_ increase in prices (over a period of time). The monthly CPI increase in September was 0.5%. Want to bet a 1959HW* that we don't see hyperinflation in the next 12 months?

*Let's not make it USD to keep it fair - you wouldn't really be able to win otherwise!


----------



## DougUSMC

Heiko Jakob said:


> In Europe it's on the seller, because all that online trade arose after the EU market got harmonized with competitive taxes. They wouldn't have done that back then if they had known what the internet will do for trade. Now it's too late to get 26 states to agree on changing it.



Yeah, same here with our 50 states. That's why it was up to the Federal government to make the law that all 50 had to abide by. I have to be honest and admit that I don't know enough about the EU to know if you have something similar, so I did some google-fu. It didn't clarify much, except to hint that what we're talking about was a contributing factor to Brexit...



Heiko Jakob said:


> The EU has no import tariff on amps, but 3.2% on guitars
> Guitars -> TARIC 9202903000 -> 3.2%
> Amps -> TARIC 8518500090 -> 0%
> ...
> Somebody on the US market is making a fortune on guitar players.



Wow, you did significantly more/better research than I did. That was super useful, thanks! I do agree that someone is making a killing on us though!



BlueX said:


> Maybe assumed price sensitivity. 1959HW might be seen as a high end product, that can carry the mark-up.


The 1959 is definitely seen as high end over here, which is a good thing. Unfortunately, Marshall as a brand is seen as "my dad's amp", and not in high demand. I asked a guy at my local guitar shop why they didn't have any large Marshall heads, and he said they just don't sell. The smaller combos can lose out to cheap competitors like Boss and Peavy, and the larger heads just don't see the same demand that they used to see. Most new players "keep it in the box" (plugins) or use emulators now. 



Heiko Jakob said:


> But a 90% upcharge you can avoid with a new power cord, a dime to turn the voltage selector and two fuses you can buy for a quarter ?



I can't speak for others, but this thread was an eye opener for me. I had NO idea how different things were! I suspected a bit of an upcharge to get it here, but no where near what it was. I've been reading this forum for a LONG time, but only doing homework/research. I finally created an account a few months ago because I wanted to ask a question, but couldn't get the password reset to work. I came here a few days ago, looking for a couple of decent places to shop for an older Super Lead, and found this thread. I'd say that within 10 mins of finding the thread I'd ordered the 1959, fixed my password issue, and made my first post. If you'd seen me ordering, I was like a kid expecting to get caught with his hand in a cookie jar. I *really* thought I'd found some loophole that was going to be closed. 
I'm speaking for myself, but I'd put money on the fact that the VAST majority of players out there don't know this is possible...



Adieu said:


> In the long-term history of the world, everything has failed, period.
> 
> The cradle of civilization is infested with ISIS and its ilk. Rome got hijacked by Christians. The Chinese Empire got taken over by communists. Etc.



Hey, I'm Doug, the new guy. I take it you're the upbeat welcome community of the forum?


----------



## Heiko Jakob

BlueX said:


> I can't tell how many 1959HW they've sold at this price, though.


10th place in sales is a lot for a company with twice the revenue of sweetwater...


----------



## DaDoc

I'm noticing even used gear is selling for more $$ over here in the states.


----------



## DougUSMC

DaDoc said:


> I'm noticing even used gear is selling for more $$ over here in the states.



Yeah, everything is insane lately. Stupid shipping containers!

BTW, UPS says my Thomann amp should be delivered today!


----------



## Heiko Jakob

DougUSMC said:


> Yeah, everything is insane lately. Stupid shipping containers!
> 
> BTW, UPS says my Thomann amp should be delivered today!


Your amp won't have seen a shipping container. They've sent it per air freight. A shipping container takes about 2 weeks over the pond.


----------



## DougUSMC

Heiko Jakob said:


> Your amp won't have seen a shipping container. They've sent it per air freight. A shipping container takes about 2 weeks over the pond.



Yeah, I dig it. I just meant that many consumer items are currently delayed coming to the States, because of the huge mess that is the CA ports.


----------



## Heiko Jakob

I guess you're checking the UPD tracker at least twice an hour, right?


----------



## DougUSMC

Heiko Jakob said:


> I guess you're checking the UPD tracker at least twice an hour, right?



I was, now I'm dying a bit inside.

Here's the "best" picture:





This is the rest of the view:














No joking around here, that's how it showed up. It was actually leaning upright against my garage door. I brought it in (rattling all the way), and just took a bunch of pics. I tried to message Thomann, but they're closed for the day due to the huge time difference.
Right now, I refuse to even open it. I have no doubt that UPS did this to it, or that it's likely trashed. I'm waiting until I can talk to Thomann to see what they want me to do with it. 
Talk about frustrating?!?!


----------



## tce63

DougUSMC said:


> I was, now I'm dying a bit inside.
> 
> Here's the "best" picture:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the rest of the view:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No joking around here, that's how it showed up. It was actually leaning upright against my garage door. I brought it in (rattling all the way), and just took a bunch of pics. I tried to message Thomann, but they're closed for the day due to the huge time difference.
> Right now, I refuse to even open it. I have no doubt that UPS did this to it, or that it's likely trashed. I'm waiting until I can talk to Thomann to see what they want me to do with it.
> Talk about frustrating?!?!



WTF, So sorry for you.

Thomann have great support and will help you out, no worries.


----------



## Heiko Jakob

WTF has UPS done to that parcel?


----------



## DougUSMC

Ridiculous, right? 

I've heard only good things about Thomann, but I'm still not bold enough to open the box w/o talking to them first. I don't want *any* room for the thought that I'm in any way responsible. I'm going to IM Thomann in the morning, and see what they tell me to do. At this point I only know that it's severely crushed and taped back together. When I pick it up, I can hear lots of things rattling and rolling around inside. Such a shame, for an incredible amp.

Anyone want to start a pool on what Thomann tells me to do? My guess is "Bring it right back to a UPS store and file a claim. They'll send it back to us and we'll send you a new one once we get it.".
If I had my druthers, it would be to file the claim then "throw it out, we'll send you a new one once UPS resolves the case". Then I see what I can do w/a "mostly demolished refurb".


----------



## Heiko Jakob

DougUSMC said:


> Anyone want to start a pool on what Thomann tells me to do? My guess is "Bring it right back to a UPS store and file a claim. They'll send it back to us and we'll send you a new one once we get it.".
> If I had my druthers, it would be to file the claim then "throw it out, we'll send you a new one once UPS resolves the case". Then I see what I can do w/a "mostly demolished refurb".


I'd go with "send it back to us and we'll send you a new one once we get it.".

Didn't you have the chance to refuse the parcel ? Or have the UPS guy to note the demolished state before you sign up for reception ?


----------



## DougUSMC

Heiko Jakob said:


> I'd go with "send it back to us and we'll send you a new one once we get it.".
> 
> Didn't you have the chance to refuse the parcel ? Or have the UPS guy to note the demolished state before you sign up for reception ?



Nope, even though I WFH, I didn't know it was here until I got the "Your Package has been Delivered" email.


----------



## Heiko Jakob

Btw, it's now 14:00 in Europe. Perfect time for a call at Thomann ...+49 9546 9223 66


DougUSMC said:


> Nope, even though I WFH, I didn't know it was here until I got the "Your Package has been Delivered" email.




Or you could write 'em an email with the photos attached.
kundenservice@thomann.de


----------



## DougUSMC

I just chatted with Thomann, who was every bit as helpful as everyone here suggested. They had me send a bunch of pics, then open and send pics of the amp:






It was in surprisingly better condition than I would have expected:






Some scuffs in the tolex, and a couple of dinged corners, but I can't believe that's all there was. The last thing to do is test it out to verify that it still works, but *someone* forgot to order fuses. 
I'll be picking those up today, and testing her out. After that I have to update Thomann, and we'll see how to take things from there.


----------



## Heiko Jakob

DougUSMC said:


> The last thing to do is test it out to verify that it still works, but *someone* forgot to order fuses.


Fuses and power cord !


----------



## DougUSMC

Heiko Jakob said:


> Fuses and power cord !



The power cord isn't that big of a concern. I do need to get one, but I have several other high wattage heads that use the same plug type. I can pick up a fuse locally today, and be patient for a Marshall OEM cord to "to keep".


----------



## Heiko Jakob

I'm curious to see if the tubes have survived the UPS treatment. But if so, these valves will also stand the test of time and will work even when all human life has vanished form the face of the earth ...


----------



## DougUSMC

Heiko Jakob said:


> I'm curious to see if the tubes have survived the UPS treatment. But if so, these valves will also stand the test of time and will work even when all human life has vanished form the face of the earth ...



You and I both. Unfortunately, the fuses that I could find local are not a match for the ones the amp needs. US fuses are larger (1.25") than the ones that came in the EU amp (3/4"). I had to get the closest I could find, and they won't be here until Thursday.

My brain keeps trying to tell me that it shouldn't be this hard, I mean other guitarists have to have run into this problem too, right? 

She looks so pretty (and untested) next to her new siblings though...


----------



## Heiko Jakob

DougUSMC said:


> You and I both. Unfortunately, the fuses that I could find local are not a match for the ones the amp needs. US fuses are larger (1.25") than the ones that came in the EU amp (3/4"). I had to get the closest I could find, and they won't be here until Thursday.
> 
> My brain keeps trying to tell me that it shouldn't be this hard, I mean other guitarists have to have run into this problem too, right?
> 
> She looks so pretty (and untested) next to her new siblings though...


With the increasing power demand in every household it's just a question of time when 240V will become standard in US home for more then the kitchen appliances and clothes dryers.


----------



## DougUSMC

Heiko Jakob said:


> With the increasing power demand in every household it's just a question of time when 240V will become standard in US home for more then the kitchen appliances and clothes dryers.



Well, 240V vs 110V isn't the service available to the house, it's the standard amount available on a circuit. My house as 3x 200A panels (600 total), but each breaker is 110V. Some specific breakers (clothes dryers, refrigerator, etc) are set up with 220V, but the majority are 110V because that's more than most need.

Also, oops, noticed the link was bad on the first post...


----------



## DougUSMC

Ok, ready for this??

I wasn't...

Swapped the fuses, changed the voltage, got a new cord...

I turned it on, and left it in standby for a few minutes, just WAITING for the smell of burning plastic or smoke. Nothing. I finally plugged in (wirelessly), flicked it off standby, and threw a chord, and it worked!! Completely shock on my end!!!

I guess that says a lot for how the guys in Bletchley make them! Bravo guys!!


----------



## tce63

DougUSMC said:


> Ok, ready for this??
> 
> I wasn't...
> 
> Swapped the fuses, changed the voltage, got a new cord...
> 
> I turned it on, and left it in standby for a few minutes, just WAITING for the smell of burning plastic or smoke. Nothing. I finally plugged in (wirelessly), flicked it off standby, and threw a chord, and it worked!! Completely shock on my end!!!
> 
> I guess that says a lot for how the guys in Bletchley make them! Bravo guys!!



So happy for you.

Now turn it up and play


----------



## Heiko Jakob

DougUSMC said:


> Ok, ready for this??


Yeehaw ...
That amp is worth a NAD post in the amps section.


----------



## Murmel

anitoli said:


> Try setting up a music shop across the street from Thomann's store and try getting a Marshall dealership in your store. They are gonna tell you to piss off, the other guy has a guaranteed area. Now when you throw in online sales this is where it gets all screwy.



Good luck stetting up that store. Across the street from Thomann's store is a litte parking lot, and behind that there is a pond. The rest of the tiny village (Treppendorf) where Thomann is located are mostly Thomann buildings. It's huge. More than 1.000 people work there. There was another Marshall dealer nearby in Bamberg though. Not really competition for Hans. When the owner of that store wanted to found a family, and wanted to close his store, because it was too much work, Hans Thomann offered him a job. He is now the lead of the guitar department at Thomann.


----------



## junk notes

This years _end-of-year_ sales for gear are slim pickin's! Looking for a few things like the SC20H and other cool gear, usually I see "deals" around this time., but it is a barren landscape for the big ticket items!
I would guess retailers should be trying to flip stock; for the new incoming years products? Obviously it would have to be across the board trickling down from the manufacturers. Will this mean better deals for 2022?
Lately have had good findings on craig's, but nothing to spectacular in finds..


----------



## lespaulsg

i want to purchase one of those sv212s from thomann but my previous experience with them was similar to DougUSMC's. I purchased a harley benton 212 and they shipped it in only the product box from the UK to California, showed up in 6 pieces and the back and forth was annoying to get it resolved. 

I chalked it up to the lack of double boxing and thought it was a one-off deal but now it seems this is their MO. I messaged them to confirm if they would double box it and they said they would. 

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, i should probably stop being cheap


----------



## DougUSMC

lespaulsg said:


> i want to purchase one of those sv212s from thomann but my previous experience with them was similar to DougUSMC's. I purchased a harley benton 212 and they shipped it in only the product box from the UK to California, showed up in 6 pieces and the back and forth was annoying to get it resolved.
> 
> I chalked it up to the lack of double boxing and thought it was a one-off deal but now it seems this is their MO. I messaged them to confirm if they would double box it and they said they would.
> 
> Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, i should probably stop being cheap



I hear you, but I will say they made it right without much trouble at all. For me, I ended up with a slightly dinged amp (really have to look for it to find it), and a great store credit. I'll take that deal any day!


----------



## tce63

Thomann has always been great to deal with, here in Europa when I have some problems, they always send a return label to ship it back, No question asked.

TC


----------



## DougUSMC

Ok, I can't stop going back to the Thomann page - they've created an addict!!

The problem is that I already have a 1987X, and none of the others in the Marshall line come with voltage switches. I know this has been asked a lot, but I can't get a real read on the answer:
Is it possible to buy something that's UK wired (Ex: a Silver Jubilee), and convert it to US? 
I suspect the answer is "yes", but I can't find anything concrete on how to do that? It looks like the easiest thing to do is put a voltage converter in front of it? Are there any definitive guides/manuals/videos that would walk me through a process of changing out the actual guts (power converter)? Is this something a good amp tech should be able to do?

Any of the above? I'd really like to grab a Jubilee, and maybe a JTM45, and...


----------



## Calebz

DougUSMC said:


> Ok, I can't stop going back to the Thomann page - they've created an addict!!




How do you think I feel? I'm close enough to them that anything over about $50 gets me free shipping. 

Monthly thomann deliveries are a thing in my household


----------



## Crikey

DougUSMC said:


> Ridiculous, right?
> 
> I've heard only good things about Thomann, but I'm still not bold enough to open the box w/o talking to them first. I don't want *any* room for the thought that I'm in any way responsible. I'm going to IM Thomann in the morning, and see what they tell me to do. At this point I only know that it's severely crushed and taped back together. When I pick it up, I can hear lots of things rattling and rolling around inside. Such a shame, for an incredible amp.
> 
> Anyone want to start a pool on what Thomann tells me to do? My guess is "Bring it right back to a UPS store and file a claim. They'll send it back to us and we'll send you a new one once we get it.".
> If I had my druthers, it would be to file the claim then "throw it out, we'll send you a new one once UPS resolves the case". Then I see what I can do w/a "mostly demolished refurb".


I think ordering a flight case with an amp head or combo wouldbe good insurance and worthwhile


----------



## DougUSMC

Crikey said:


> I think ordering a flight case with an amp head or combo wouldbe good insurance and worthwhile



Not saying that's not a great idea, but it does say something pretty pathetic with how packages are being handled lately...


----------



## Crikey

DougUSMC said:


> Not saying that's not a great idea, but it does say something pretty pathetic with how packages are being handled lately...


Its our reality , unfortunately. 
They are busier with freight packages more than ever before. Forecast , it will get even busier. 
Intl shipments of heavy electronics like 1959 are worthy of flight case purchase. Imo


----------



## DougUSMC

Crikey said:


> Its our reality , unfortunately.
> They are busier with freight packages more than ever before. Forecast , it will get even busier.
> Intl shipments of heavy electronics like 1959 are worthy of flight case purchase. Imo



Yeah, I hear you, and don't disagree. It's just sad that we're being trained to accept such cr@ppy service and expected to pay full price for it.


----------



## Crikey

DougUSMC said:


> Yeah, I hear you, and don't disagree. It's just sad that we're being trained to accept such cr@ppy service and expected to pay full price for it.


Its going to get het much worse til each house has s 3 d printer and makes theproduct in your house


----------



## DougUSMC

Crikey said:


> Its going to get het much worse til each house has s 3 d printer and makes theproduct in your house



LOL, that's true! Though then we'll be complaining that the shipments of substrate and printing materials get lost and damaged!


----------



## Comic

anitoli said:


> The thing is ( i can't locate the thread) someone here tried to order Marshall from Thomann UK and when they got to the payment stage a pop up told them they can't ship to the US. I wish i could find the thread.



anitolli... I just had the same experience. I was looking at a Marshall SV20H... Thomann, with shipping was around $700.... Sweetwater wants $1,700. Plus tax. And I got the same message that they won't ship Marshall's to the USA.

$1000+ more expensive. The word "criminal" comes to mind.


----------



## ljs

We have the same issue with a lot of US brands which are either not distributed (where we end up paying 20%+ markup on retail price + shipping) or obscenely priced (Mesa - that’s you I’m talking about).


----------



## Heiko Jakob

Comic said:


> anitolli... I just had the same experience. I was looking at a Marshall SV20H... Thomann, with shipping was around $700.... Sweetwater wants $1,700. Plus tax. And I got the same message that they won't ship Marshall's to the USA.
> 
> $1000+ more expensive. The word "criminal" comes to mind.


Several people here from the US have bought their Marshall stuff there recently without any issues.

@Bluewhalin bought a SV112 cab a week or two ago.
https://www.marshallforum.com/threads/perhaps-the-most-ridiculous-price-of-all.124622/post-2235276

@DougUSMC bought a half stack in January






Marshall prices US vs. Europe


Anyone want to start a pool on what Thomann tells me to do? My guess is "Bring it right back to a UPS store and file a claim. They'll send it back to us and we'll send you a new one once we get it.". If I had my druthers, it would be to file the claim then "throw it out, we'll send you a new...




www.marshallforum.com


----------



## DougUSMC

I did buy from Thomann, but it was a 1959 HW and in November...


----------



## Bluewhalin

DougUSMC said:


> I did buy from Thomann, but it was a 1959 HW and in November...


I purchased the SV112 from Thomann. Ordered on Thursday at my door on Monday. The box looked fine, no issues. Saw those pictures of the 1959 box - yikes. Thomann customer service told me as long as I was under $800 I would avoid Customs Tax. Also - I’ve been looking at those Heads and thinking I’m cheating or something they’re so cheap. Does a normal US female end of the power cord fit the amp? What’s the story with switching tubes? Just all new tubes, get the same a you use in a head purchased here in the US? Obviously the head must be selectable to US power. Sorry for the 50 question drill. Thanks - your amp looks awesome!


----------



## saxon68

Thomann site now says that Marshall won’t let them sell to USA.


----------



## Heiko Jakob

saxon68 said:


> Thomann site now says that Marshall won’t let them sell to USA.


Jep, they've closed that loop hole. So i hope you all have friends in the Army/Navy/Marine/AirForce who serve in Europe and can buy it local and relay that stuff to the US.


----------



## BlueX

So the US importers/retailers have more leverage on Marshall then Thomann does



Heiko Jakob said:


> Jep, they've closed that loop hole. So i hope you all have friends in the Army/Navy/Marine/AirForce who serve in Europe and can buy it local and relay that stuff to the US.


----------



## Purgasound

Have you guys seen what a 1960BV is selling for new right now in the U.S.? Almost $2,000 USD


----------



## saxon68

Purgasound said:


> Have you guys seen what a 1960BV is selling for new right now in the U.S.? Almost $2,000 USD


Yeah I actually bought one new at 1400 because I couldn’t find one local used, it came with the tolex ripped in a few spots and the badge plays off and all bent up. Nope…… my old 2011 model is perfect and cost me about 500, no way I pay that for a banged up one. Back it went and I’ll be fine with just one for now.


----------



## DougUSMC

Bluewhalin said:


> I purchased the SV112 from Thomann. Ordered on Thursday at my door on Monday. The box looked fine, no issues. Saw those pictures of the 1959 box - yikes. Thomann customer service told me as long as I was under $800 I would avoid Customs Tax. Also - I’ve been looking at those Heads and thinking I’m cheating or something they’re so cheap. Does a normal US female end of the power cord fit the amp? What’s the story with switching tubes? Just all new tubes, get the same a you use in a head purchased here in the US? Obviously the head must be selectable to US power. Sorry for the 50 question drill. Thanks - your amp looks awesome!



Yeah, mine was trashed. Funny thing though - the 1959 was in almost perfect shape! I can't tell where you are, is it US? I don't believe I paid customs tax, or if I did it was wrapped up in my checkout price.

Yup, it seems the male end of the plug cord (the one attached to the amp) is standard. I just moved over another amp power cord I had (coincidentally a 1987x), and it was fine.
I didn't have to get new tubes, I had to replace the fuses. The back of the head is labeled with the correct ones, and I just picked them up from Amazon.
Yes, it has to be selectable to US power. I think that's only the 1959 and the 1987 at this time. A bummer, because at those crazy Thomann prices I'd have grabbed a JTM 45 and Silver Jubilee too within days of the 1959 showing up!



Heiko Jakob said:


> Jep, they've closed that loop hole. So i hope you all have friends in the Army/Navy/Marine/AirForce who serve in Europe and can buy it local and relay that stuff to the US.
> View attachment 102894




This is a huge bummer! I have a credit from Thomann as a result of mine being such a trainwreck when it showed up. I guess it doesn't *really* matter, since nothing else in the Marshall line has switchable power by default. I'd lie if I hadn't said that I was considering a 1974 and swapping out the power though. The1962 Bluesbreaker is less than half price from them. Weird though ,they don't show the 1974 on their page?


----------



## Heiko Jakob

Maybe you could try another retailer in Europ that ships to the US ...








Marshall 1960AHW Guitar Cabinet Speaker Angled 120W (Black)


The Marshall 1960A Handwired Guitar Amplifier Cabinet has a 300 Watt Output and four 12" Celestion G12T75 Speakers.




www.musicstore.com












Marshall 1959HW Handwired Guitar Tube A mplifier Head


1959HW Handwired Guitar Tube A mplifier Head at the best price. | GIT0006195-000




www.musicstore.com


----------



## DougUSMC

Heiko Jakob said:


> Maybe you could try another retailer in Europ that ships to the US ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Marshall 1960AHW Guitar Cabinet Speaker Angled 120W (Black)
> 
> 
> The Marshall 1960A Handwired Guitar Amplifier Cabinet has a 300 Watt Output and four 12" Celestion G12T75 Speakers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.musicstore.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Marshall 1959HW Handwired Guitar Tube A mplifier Head
> 
> 
> 1959HW Handwired Guitar Tube A mplifier Head at the best price. | GIT0006195-000
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.musicstore.com



Is that a real store? I don't mean to be harsh, but it looks like a fake site.


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## tce63

DougUSMC said:


> Is that a real store? I don't mean to be harsh, but it looks like a fake site.



It is a great store, One of EU:s biggest.
I have bought many many things from them.

There policy is of returning items, just as Thomanns, 30 days NO question asked


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## Heiko Jakob

DougUSMC said:


> Is that a real store? I don't mean to be harsh, but it looks like a fake site.


It's Europes second largest music retailer.


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## DougUSMC

Ah, cool, I dig it. I guess I needed to look at it as a European store. "Most" sites in the US are purely English language, and have a certain look. I've found that many sites that are European have been designed to be multilingual, and feel different. This definitely falls into that category.

I now have a 1974 in a Cart, if I push the Go button, I'm blaming you guys...


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## Bluewhalin

DougUSMC said:


> Yeah, mine was trashed. Funny thing though - the 1959 was in almost perfect shape! I can't tell where you are, is it US? I don't believe I paid customs tax, or if I did it was wrapped up in my checkout price.
> 
> Yup, it seems the male end of the plug cord (the one attached to the amp) is standard. I just moved over another amp power cord I had (coincidentally a 1987x), and it was fine.
> I didn't have to get new tubes, I had to replace the fuses. The back of the head is labeled with the correct ones, and I just picked them up from Amazon.
> Yes, it has to be selectable to US power. I think that's only the 1959 and the 1987 at this time. A bummer, because at those crazy Thomann prices I'd have grabbed a JTM 45 and Silver Jubilee too within days of the 1959 showing up!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a huge bummer! I have a credit from Thomann as a result of mine being such a trainwreck when it showed up. I guess it doesn't *really* matter, since nothing else in the Marshall line has switchable power by default. I'd lie if I hadn't said that I was considering a 1974 and swapping out the power though. The1962 Bluesbreaker is less than half price from them. Weird though ,they don't show the 1974 on their page?


I’m in California. I think the 1959 and JCM 800 might be the only ones with selectable power - so we can use them here. Those prices have me really thinking about pulling the trigger on one of those heads, hence all my questions. Thanks for answering. I may have to thin the herd a bit, sell an SG I never play … and go for it.


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## DougUSMC

Bluewhalin said:


> I’m in California. I think the 1959 and JCM 800 might be the only ones with selectable power - so we can use them here. Those prices have me really thinking about pulling the trigger on one of those heads, hence all my questions. Thanks for answering. I may have to thin the herd a bit, sell an SG I never play … and go for it.



Hmmm, you could be right. It's been a while since I checked out the back. I did it, and I'm glad I did - though I WILL say you'd better sell two: you're going to need an Ox Box too! It's LOUD, REALLY LOUD. I mean, you know "It's 100W, it's going to be loud". Then you hear it and realize how they filled stadiums with sound with a few of these things...


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## Bluewhalin

DougUSMC said:


> Hmmm, you could be right. It's been a while since I checked out the back. I did it, and I'm glad I did - though I WILL say you'd better sell two: you're going to need an Ox Box too! It's LOUD, REALLY LOUD. I mean, you know "It's 100W, it's going to be loud". Then you hear it and realize how they filled stadiums with sound with a few of these things...


I owned on the past. I have an Sv20 now and that’s crazy loud. Use a Weber MiniMASS which I really like. Works well live. Just got the TAE - still trying to figure it out. There’s no better sound to me than the 1959 or JCM 800.


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## Heiko Jakob

Bluewhalin said:


> I owned on the past. I have an Sv20 now and that’s crazy loud. Use a Weber MiniMASS which I really like. Works well live. Just got the TAE - still trying to figure it out. There’s no better sound to me than the 1959 or JCM 800.


I have a 100w attenuator on the 1959hw and when i dig in the overload light goes on instantly. I doubt that a 50w attenuator like the Weber mini would be sufficient to notably reduce the Marshall induced commotion ....


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## Heiko Jakob

DougUSMC said:


> Ah, cool, I dig it. I guess I needed to look at it as a European store. "Most" sites in the US are purely English language, and have a certain look. I've found that many sites that are European have been designed to be multilingual, and feel different. This definitely falls into that category.
> 
> I now have a 1974 in a Cart, if I push the Go button, I'm blaming you guys...


Saddly the 1974 isn't dual voltage. But the cabs don't care about mains voltage ....


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## Bluewhalin

Heiko Jakob said:


> I have a 100w attenuator on the 1959hw and when i dig in the overload light goes on instantly. I doubt that a 50w attenuator like the Weber mini would be sufficient to notably reduce the Marshall induced commotion





Heiko Jakob said:


> I have a 100w attenuator on the 1959hw and when i dig in the overload light goes on instantly. I doubt that a 50w attenuator like the Weber mini would be sufficient to notably reduce the Marshall induced commotion ....


No the mini would catch on fire or melt with your amp. It’s good for my 20w Studios. According to the Weber site you should have an attenuator with double your amps wattage. I’m not too knowledgeable on electronics, just a musician, but I’ve read an amps stated wattage is less than the actual it puts out when you crank it and dig in. One reason I picked up the TAE is it’s supposed to handle amps up to 150w. So when I finally get a 100w 800 again I’ll be ready.


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## Dogs of Doom

usually an amp's power output is measured at a certain percentage distortion point.

Guitar amp's are generally used well past that distortion point, so, the amp can put out 80% more, than it's rated power. That's why attenuator mfgr's tell you to use 2x the amp's rating.

A lot of people these days, use pre-amp distortion & not rely too much on power amp distortion. So, if you use a distorted sound & have your volume at 2, yeah, you won't be pushing the amp, but, if you are running the power up high & have distortion, chances are, you're well above the rated power.


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