# The Brown sound is FINALLY HERE



## wkcchampion

Exactly. Hear this excerpt from "Runnin' from the devil" I personally recorded:

http://pregnosplatter.altervista.org/Jcm800/Eldy 1959 nailed brown sound.mp3
(click on QUI if Altervista shows up)

Very close uh?
Well, there's nothing weird or odd I used. No NOS or exotic valves, no VariAC, no modded amp, no pedals.... nothing.
Just:
- Eldy with the bridge pickup
- the SuperLead (which is stock and hass TungSol 12AX7 and JJ EL34 valves) with the following settings:
Presence 9, Bass 0, Mid 9, Treble 9, Channel I volume 9 (Channel II disconnected/not used)
- the Palmer and some reverb/echo in the DAW. I also touched the EQ a bit (500 Hz -1dB, 3kHz + 2 dB).

Therefore, guys... don't believe the hype you read on the internet. 
You need _no exotic valves_ or _strange mods_ or those fu***in _VariAC_ (that are dangerous!) to get Eddie's sound.
Just practice hard. Then, get a Fly Deluxe or a bright sounding guitar with humbuckers (poplar or similar wood) and an old 1959 SuperLead or a new boutique clone, and *CRANK IT*. _You'll get it, I promise_.

Ah yes, regarding the cab... if u want to use a cab, I'm afraid u need Pre-Rola G12Ms or clones (like Scumback), and I believe that he mixed them with JBL 120s. At least my pro audio engineers friends suspect that. But you'll get very close with just PreRola G12Ms (or clones), trust me.


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## wkcchampion

And now I'm really not surprised at all why Eddie liked playing a Fly! 
Just instant brown sound


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## solarburn

Sounds great man. Luv the SL!


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## wkcchampion

Thanks Joe


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## Gtarzan81

Nailed it sir!


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## wkcchampion

Gtarzan81 said:


> Nailed it sir!



Thank you


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## customwhite

Yeah, that's the tone, good job wkc


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## wkcchampion

customwhite said:


> Yeah, that's the tone, good job wkc



Thanks.. but really, it's not difficult at all. 
I think that people who try to get Eddie's sound concentrate too much on ... aforementioned hype. Exotic valves, mods, VariAC and so on.

Just crank a Plexi and you're almost there. With PreRolas closer. With Prerolas and JBL K120 just a hair there.

Ah yes, add plenty of ambience. There's actually more reverb/echo than u may think. After multiple listenings, I actually think that my sound has a little less ambience than the original.

EDIt: the B string flat tuning. Well I didn't do it, some guitars may need it. I think that Eldy already sounds perfect with the normal tuning - despite many argued the contrary...


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## Codyjohns

That is a great EVH tone  Excellent job nailing that tone.


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## customwhite

I've got a 1959HW, took it to my friends house last weekend,
put all knobs at 10 and played some riffs with a LP custom,
I was surprised how much gain the amp had. 
(BTW I used a power brake...)


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## wkcchampion

@MichaelRT thanks bro

@Customwhite ha! I'm sure it's a great amp, and it WILL nail this tone out of the box. Yes the attenuator is a must. Try to use the above posted settings (the bass was at 0 'cos the Flys are very bassy. Put the Bass knob as high as u can without having the infamous low end flab/mud). 
Get a cabinet with G12Ms, betetr if PreRola/Rola (102 003) or Scumback clones. A sm 57 in front. Reverb and EQ as necessary. There u go!


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## customwhite

I'm going to buy a 1960HW cab to match the amp,
It has the G12H 30 speakers.


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## wkcchampion

customwhite said:


> I'm going to buy a 1960HW cab to match the amp,
> It has the G12H 30 speakers.



if u want my opinion, I would NOT buy any new Celestion. They won't sound as the old ones, because the cones are not the same. Yup.
I'd get either old Pre-Rola/Rola G12Ms or Hs, or clones such as Scumback. 
All these new Greenback reissue sound somewhat too harsh.

Ah and BTW, if u want Eddie's sound, the Hs are not righ anyway. Hendrix and Page used the Hs.


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## thrawn86

Sounds great.....needs a thick reverb in there to be a duplicate. 

FWIW, most of us here who use NOS don't say that NOS are the only way to the famous sounds of yesteryear......I love what they do for my amp, but the amp itself is where the famous sounds come from (i.e. 1959, 2203, JTM45, etc.). Jon Wilder preached this incessantly, and most of us already know that.


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## NewReligion

Hi Marco. You certainly nailed the Brown Sound. I think it sounds great. Let's hear more.

David


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## Joey Voltage

Very Close indeed, you just need verb on the right side, and a tiny bit of fizz, and it's there.


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## MartyStrat54

Super job, Marco. Enjoyed it.


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## wkcchampion

thrawn86 said:


> Sounds great.....needs a thick reverb in there to be a duplicate.



Thanks very much! And thanks also to Marty, David, Joey and to the others I forgot to mention. 



Joey Voltage said:


> Very Close indeed, you just need verb on the right side, and a tiny bit of fizz, and it's there.


Yeah, as I said, the original contains maybe a little more 'verb. Regarding the fizz... eeeeh yes! The old recordings DO HAVE more noise... today's modern DAWs have powerful noise gates and suppressors, and cut out all of this fizz and noise that is heard in vintage recordings. It's obvious that a Superlead at cranked volume is noisy  Recording on tape certainly would give that final touch IMO.




thrawn86 said:


> FWIW, most of us here who use NOS don't say that NOS are the only way to the famous sounds of yesteryear......I love what they do for my amp, but the amp itself is where the famous sounds come from (i.e. 1959, 2203, JTM45, etc.). Jon Wilder preached this incessantly, and most of us already know that.


So very true! And IMO (and Wilder would agree) old Marshalls or clones would nail it better. Anyway, u won't get a 1959 from a 2203 or a DSL or a... [type another amp here]. The same way you won't get Brian May's soudn from a Marshall, or.... David Gilmour's sound from a Dual Rectifier (too obvious ? ).
EDIT: and obviously you won't nail *anybody's tone* with _Line6 _hahaha, I learnt the lesson (did u get it, Wallmarksuck?)

And don't forget the speakers and miking! Current Celestion Greenback reissues have the wrong magnets, you won't get that Pre-Rola sound... as I aid before. You can find several shoot-out between 102 003, clones such as Scumback and current Heritage Greenbacks, you'll hear what I mean.
To nail EVH, my opinion is that these old Greenies are needed. To my ears the new ones sound different and harsher. The Palmer actually models the old Greenies with little or no EQing.
He may have mixed in some JBL 120s too.

Miking: eeeeh the dark art... that's always tricky.


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## wkcchampion

I think this may be of interest.
Here's a sample of the guitar in isolation:

http://pregnosplatter.altervista.org/Jcm800/brown sound eldy gtr isolation.mp3
(click on QUI if Altervista shows up)


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## Australian

Good job Marco! Now the big test,to make it sound like Eddie sounds on vinyl.


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## wkcchampion

Australian said:


> Good job Marco! Now the big test,to make it sound like Eddie sounds on vinyl.



Thanks. Ahaha I don't think I'll be able to. I'm a youngster, I live in the digital world. I don't even have any vinyls! Yup my dad has of course.
I listen to every song either from a CD or an MP3 - and EVH ones are probably remastered too.


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## wkcchampion

Ok... something more now.
This is interesting (IMO). This the same backing track, but I recorded the guitar using the JMP-1 Speaker emulation output and the same plug-ins as before (bar the EQ - that cabinet emu sounds a bit boxy and I had to tweak it).
http://pregnosplatter.altervista.org/Jcm800/Eldy brown sound JMP1.mp3
(click on QUI if Altervista shows up)

I know it doesn't as good as the 1959 - as it doesn't have to. I bet that a JMP-1 recorded with a mic'd cab would sound much better, but I purposedly wanted to record it direct.
I paid the JMP-1 just 250 euros - and obviously the 1959 and the Palmer together cost 5 or 6 times as much. So the comparison is a bit unfair.
But for that sum of money, I think that the JMP-1 Cabinet Sim output (and some ambience) gives a very respectable Brown sound. Surely it's better than the Line6 POD and other modellers in the same price range, and to my ears, it has those aggressive highs and an overall Marshall signature.

This clip is to show that even on a budget, it's possible to get a more than acceptable recorded tone.


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## solarburn

wkcchampion said:


> Ok... something more now.
> This is interesting (IMO). This the same backing track, but I recorded the guitar using the JMP-1 Speaker emulation output and the same plug-ins as before (bar the EQ - that cabinet emu sounds a bit boxy and I had to tweak it).
> http://pregnosplatter.altervista.org/Jcm800/Eldy brown sound JMP1.mp3
> (click on QUI if Altervista shows up)
> 
> I know it doesn't as good as the 1959 - as it doesn't have to. I bet that a JMP-1 recorded with a mic'd cab would sound much better, but I purposedly wanted to record it direct.
> I paid the JMP-1 just 250 euros - and obviously the 1959 and the Palmer together cost 5 or 6 times as much. So the comparison is a bit unfair.
> But for that sum of money, I think that the JMP-1 Cabinet Sim output (and some ambience) gives a very respectable Brown sound. Surely it's better than the Line6 POD and other modellers in the same price range, and to my ears, it has those aggressive highs and an overall Marshall signature.
> 
> This clip is to show that even on a budget, it's possible to get a more than acceptable recorded tone.



Not as close character wise but yes that is a good tone none the less and would be fine to use and listen to. I'm sure purists would take it apart but then again they do that with every thing eh? The 59 is it for sure though and damn I want one hehe.


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## wkcchampion

solarburnDSL50 said:


> Not as close character wise but yes that is a good tone none the less and would be fine to use and listen to. I'm sure purists would take it apart but then again they do that with every thing eh? The 59 is it for sure though and damn I want one hehe.



Well I immediately said that it wasn't as good as the real deal. But again, for 250 eur... what do u expect? Excellent value for money!


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## solarburn

wkcchampion said:


> Well I immediately said that it wasn't as good as the real deal. But again, for 250 eur... what do u expect? Excellent value for money!



Yeah I know you know. Lucky!


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## wkcchampion

Yeah. The JMP-1 is an excellent preamp, I just think that the Cab Sim output is not that great. The same was for the JVM as much as I remember, they're just EQ over the dry preamp signal. IMO they're not designed for serious/pro recording but just for a backup solution or for silent practicing/quick recordings. Or if you are on a tight budget and can't afford mics or Palmers...


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## SitarHero28

That is a very sexy tone! Early Eddie (1979-1982) are some of my favourite guitar tones of all time. 

I just love the agressive attack when you can hear the pick hitting the strings! 

Thank you for sharing the insights.

Glenn


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## wkcchampion

SitarHero28 said:


> That is a very sexy tone! Early Eddie (1979-1982) are some of my favourite guitar tones of all time.
> 
> I just love the agressive attack when you can hear the pick hitting the strings!
> 
> Thank you for sharing the insights.
> 
> Glenn



Hey Glenn, u have good hear if u like these tones! Well said, I agree with that. Early's early tone was among the most legendary ever.
And it's not that difficult to catch after all. The main problem is certainly his technique - which I DON'T have


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## jcmjmp

wkcchampion said:


> Regarding the fizz... eeeeh yes! The old recordings DO HAVE more noise... today's modern DAWs have powerful noise gates and suppressors, and cut out all of this fizz and noise that is heard in vintage recordings. It's obvious that a Superlead at cranked volume is noisy  Recording on tape certainly would give that final touch IMO.



That's not what Joey meant. The VH1 tone has more "hair", "fizz", "top end edge".


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## rich24a

wkcchampion said:


> Ok... something more now.
> This is interesting (IMO). This the same backing track, but I recorded the guitar using the JMP-1 Speaker emulation output and the same plug-ins as before (bar the EQ - that cabinet emu sounds a bit boxy and I had to tweak it).
> http://pregnosplatter.altervista.org/Jcm800/Eldy brown sound JMP1.mp3
> (click on QUI if Altervista shows up)



Hi Marco, I think that tone sounds really good... 

I was wondering what settings you used to get that tone on the preamp. Did you use one of the factory patches or a custom patch?


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## wkcchampion

rich24a said:


> Hi Marco, I think that tone sounds really good...
> 
> I was wondering what settings you used to get that tone on the preamp. Did you use one of the factory patches or a custom patch?



you're right, i forgot to post them. Here they are:

Eldy with bridge humbucker
OD1 channel
Gain 18
Bass 4 Middle 5 Pres and treble 6
Bass shift off
Cabinet Sim output direct to soundcard

(in th DAW)
Some EQ to reduce the "boxiness" of the Cabinet sim output
Delay and reverb


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## carnada

I dont know what the brown sound is, but that shit sounds good.


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## wkcchampion

carnada said:


> I dont know what the brown sound is, but that shit sounds good.



The "brown sound" is the tone recorded by Van Halen in the first albums.


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## rich24a

wkcchampion said:


> you're right, i forgot to post them. Here they are:
> 
> ...



Thanks Marco, I shall try these out on my JMP-1 in the next few days...


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## wkcchampion

Yeah do it and ROCK. practice the riff because EVH is not easy


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## j2112c

Good to hear the guitar in isolation, it is thick as soup - lovely!

Neat recording as always Marco.


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## wkcchampion

Hey welcome back John! Thanks for listening.
You got it, Eldy really sings with the SL! 
Flys AND Marshalls rule


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## marvin

Great sound Marco!
I've got a 73 SL with real Mullard EL34's and telefunken, etc. preamp tubes, both cabs with V30's and anniversary 30's and can't get anywhere near that sound. I do have a stash of the original silver alnico 15 watters (spares for my AC30), how do you think they would sound as compared to the pre-rola 20's in a cab.?


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## wkcchampion

marvin said:


> Great sound Marco!
> I've got a 73 SL with real Mullard EL34's and telefunken, etc. preamp tubes, both cabs with V30's and anniversary 30's and can't get anywhere near that sound. I do have a stash of the original silver alnico 15 watters (spares for my AC30), how do you think they would sound as compared to the pre-rola 20's in a cab.?



Hey Marvin, thanks.
Well I don't think u have the right speakers. Have u ever tried Pre-Rola Greenbacks? V30s are modern sounding speakers which will never give ya Ed's sound, IMO. Some websites state that Eddie used a mix of G12M and JBL K120s. 

uuuuuh the very rare Silvers! I have Blues with the 1777 cone. I heard 20 watters in a recording by Alex and I didn't like them at all, so I can't tell you. IMO, the best sounding Celestion are Pre-Rola / Rola G12M and G12H with Pulsonic cones.


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## marvin

Marco,
My silvers have the 1777 cones as well. I assumed they were the same as the blue 15watters.? I have one 20 watt silver which probably came out of a SuperBeatle cab. Back in the late 60's I played in a band for a short while with several SB's. Those celestions blew like popcorn so were usually replaced with something else. Of course we had the "watchdog" disabled in the heads.

My 64' AC30 also has the same silver alnico's with the 1777 cones.

p.s. I have not tried the pre-rola 20's. I have never found any that I could afford!

2nd p.s. The 20 watter has a 16 102 003 cone.


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## marvin

I like the sound that Greg Martin gets.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42IAycMYnPU]YouTube - Rufus Huff "13 Daze"[/ame]

Any guess on which speakers he's using?


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## wkcchampion

My ear says Greenbacks all the way. Nice Marshall tone


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## chuckharmonjr

Im running G12M's and absolutely love them. I just put one in my combo and it really livened it up. Running 9 of 'em now....grins.


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## marvin

wkcchampion said:


> My ear says Greenbacks all the way. Nice Marshall tone



I assume you mean the pre-rola's?

I had some rola Greenbacks and thought they sounded "shrill".

Have you listened to the Heritage 25w Greenbacks?


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## wkcchampion

marvin said:


> I assume you mean the pre-rola's?
> 
> I had some rola Greenbacks and thought they sounded "shrill".
> 
> Have you listened to the Heritage 25w Greenbacks?



I don't really care for modern Celestions. I only like the Blue AlNiCos, which do sound right. I have the modern ones (bought few years ago) and they sound the same of the ones in my friend's 90s TBX.


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## blues_n_cues

so i don't need a david bray custom rig in my line for the 1 VH song i do???? 


jk


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## marvin

wkcchampion said:


> I don't really care for modern Celestions. I only like the Blue AlNiCos, which do sound right. I have the modern ones (bought few years ago) and they sound the same of the ones in my friend's 90s TBX.




I think I'll try putting 4 of my vintage silver alnico's in a bottom cab and see what it sounds like.

I really think they are the same as the vintage blue alnicos..??


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## rockinbadboy

Sounds REAL except the quiet parts are out of tune!

"To all the guys that say a Marshall ain't a Marshall if it contains silicon...don't they ALL contain silicon? Except the few that have a tube rectifier!"
Rockinbadboy-


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## diesect20022000

nice my fRiend!


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## kennylee

thanks for the ear candy. really enjoyed it.


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## wkcchampion

Thanks. Ican no longer be as present as before because I also work on Saturdays


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## Adrian R

Marco..

Thats 'pretty close' there dude..the closest I've heard yet for sure! I would say just a tad bit more gain..and you got it nailed hard... I also hear ya about Eddie...I don't even attempt to do allot of his stuff as I respect him to much and I would probably just butcher it anyway. Eddie was like my hugest hero when I was in high school...he was like and enigma..especially at a time when the internet didn't exist yet stiffing much information about the artist. It just added to his intrigue..

Haven't seen any guitarist since that has been as revolutionary as Eddie was...I can hear a small bit of Eddie in many rock players today including myself. His down picking techniques I studied very hard to nail!


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## wkcchampion

Adrian R said:


> Marco..
> 
> Thats 'pretty close' there dude..the closest I've heard yet for sure! I would say just a tad bit more gain..and you got it nailed hard... I also hear ya about Eddie...I don't even attempt to do allot of his stuff as I respect him to much and I would probably just butcher it anyway. Eddie was like my hugest hero when I was in high school...he was like and enigma..especially at a time when the internet didn't exist yet stiffing much information about the artist. It just added to his intrigue..
> 
> Haven't seen any guitarist since that has been as revolutionary as Eddie was...I can hear a small bit of Eddie in many rock players today including myself. His down picking techniques I studied very hard to nail!



hi Adrian! Thanks, happy to see that his old thread still delivers 

I don't think his sound is that difficult to catch. But his hands are so fast and precise!!! That is certainly the most difficult part. I don't even attempt recordings his most difficult parts!


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## zachman

wkcchampion said:


> Exactly. Hear this excerpt from "Runnin' from the devil" I personally recorded:
> 
> http://pregnosplatter.altervista.org/Jcm800/Eldy 1959 nailed brown sound.mp3
> (click on QUI if Altervista shows up)
> 
> Very close uh?
> Well, there's nothing weird or odd I used. No NOS or exotic valves, no VariAC, no modded amp, no pedals.... nothing.
> Just:
> - Eldy with the bridge pickup
> - the SuperLead (which is stock and hass TungSol 12AX7 and JJ EL34 valves) with the following settings:
> Presence 9, Bass 0, Mid 9, Treble 9, Channel I volume 9 (Channel II disconnected/not used)
> - the Palmer and some reverb/echo in the DAW. I also touched the EQ a bit (500 Hz -1dB, 3kHz + 2 dB).
> 
> Therefore, guys... don't believe the hype you read on the internet.
> You need _no exotic valves_ or _strange mods_ or those fu***in _VariAC_ (that are dangerous!) to get Eddie's sound.
> Just practice hard. Then, get a Fly Deluxe or a bright sounding guitar with humbuckers (poplar or similar wood) and an old 1959 SuperLead or a new boutique clone, and *CRANK IT*. _You'll get it, I promise_.
> 
> Ah yes, regarding the cab... if u want to use a cab, I'm afraid u need Pre-Rola G12Ms or clones (like Scumback), and I believe that he mixed them with JBL 120s. At least my pro audio engineers friends suspect that. But you'll get very close with just PreRola G12Ms (or clones), trust me.




Well done!!!!!


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## pittbull

wkcchampion,what year is your superlead.


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## wkcchampion

Thanks guys 

My Superlead was made in 1981, the last and only year made with JCM800 cosmetics. No mods.
Here's fews pics:
ImageShack Album - 2 images

The cabient is a hand.ì-made boutique clone of a 1969 basketweave, with original Pre-Rola Greenbacks (G12m T1221)


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## thrawn86

I primed pittbull on your clip earlier today. He had trouble believing that the Unmodded Plexi could get the Brown Sound........and I knew just the man for the job!


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## pittbull

Alittle more gain-hair will put you there.What brand and tubes are you using.


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## wkcchampion

I've written it before. Tubes used were current production TungSol 12AX7 and JJ EL34. No magic there.
The guitar was Eldy, a '95 Parker Fly Deluxe (the blue one here, shown on the left)
ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting

EDIT: I currently have fitted NOS RFT 12AX7 in that amp, but I'm 100% sure that I recorded that sound clip with the TungSols. now I have the TungSols in the VOX. I have RFTs in the 2203 as well.


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