# DSL40C speaker swap?



## DirtySteve

I have a new DSL40 watt and so far I'm not liking the 70/80 at all. I've been giving it hell in an attempt to break it in, but it seems like the more I play it the worse it gets! Now I can't spend $200 or more on a speaker so I'm looking at WGS or Eminence.

I don't know much about speakers. I've owned a Veteran 30 and a Green beret from WGS that I had in my PV Classic 50, but in the end I liked the stock speakers better and never found a use for either one of them and have sold them. 

I read several post about Eminence speakers, but most of the replies were for mixing them in a bigger cab. I need a good sounding single speaker that will work well in my DSL for anything from dirty blues to classic rock, punk, hard rock and metal. 

What say ye?


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## Micky

Have you been to their website?
They have clips of various speakers, makes it a bit easier to choose.

What guitar are you using the most?
Need to tame the highs?
Looking for a hi-efficiency speaker?

Lots of choices here...


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## DirtySteve

Yes I have, but I've been fooled by demos too many times now and I just don't trust that they'll sound the same in my amp with my setup.






I have 2 Godins. (...for now) Both guitars have the same neck, mahogany/rosewood. The one on the left is a solid maple body loaded with MHD Straitjacket Tele set, the one on the right is a mahogany body loaded with MHD Stangkfingers.

Yes I need to tame the highs and the bottom needs to be tighter. There's kind of a "honk" throughout that I want to get rid of and the mids, well thats where most of the "honk" seems to be. I'm not sure if honk is the right word, I might not be describing it right.


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## Micky

Maverick. Ask Marty. He will certainly have an opinion...
It even comes in a 16-ohm version.


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## DirtySteve

I have given Marty a link to this thread in another thread and am looking forward to what he has to say. I've got it loaded with NOS pres and it's been confirmed that I have a pretty good line up, but there's something that's still not right and it's led me to believe it's the speaker I'm not gelling with.


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## Micky

You really cannot understand how bad I am gassing for a 40c...


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## Stringjunkie

WGS Retro 30


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## Stringjunkie

Sorry, just saw your response in the other thread.


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## DirtySteve

Stringjunkie said:


> WGS Retro 30



it's cool, I'm seriously looking at it after what SonVolt said, I'm just afraid from the description it might be too bright. What's the bottom and mids like?


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## Stringjunkie

I don't think it's too bright myself. The video is pretty accurate if you can get past the playing. It's tight and chunky. The mids seem a bit scooped compared to my Reaper which I was originally going to suggest, but it's only 30w


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## Ricochet

Stringjunkie said:


> my Reaper which I was originally going to suggest, but it's only 30w



Tadaaa... 12" Reaper HP - 50 watts | Warehouse Guitar Speakers


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## Stringjunkie

It's still not enough for a 40w amp though.


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## Cadblaster

I'm wondering why you guy's are recommending a retro 30 and a reaper ???
Nothing against WGS speakers, just questioning the choice of models.
The OP said he was trying to tame the highs from what he already has.
I think the Retro 30 and Reaper are both brighter on the top end than a 70/80


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## Bloodrock

I use the WGS et65's mixed with v30's. They would be a great speaker for the 40c IMO.


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## GIBSON67

Steve, I have a Celestion G12H100 8 ohms that I can let go cheap. I haven't really used it much because I am a 4x12 man, now. $60 shipped and it's your's, and I'll even take returns if you don't like it. I've had it for a while but now I need some cash to pay for my new 425A! And no big deal if you want to pass, either...PM me if you want it...

Tim


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## Micky

I don't think it is an issue so much for 'taming the highs' as it is for emphasizing the lows.
In an open back speaker cab, you immediately lose a lot of the 'thump' you would normally have in a closed back design, so I don't think there is really anything that will cut back the higher freqs.

Putting some of the low-end crunch back in will even out the response, that's why you need to look at a speaker that is designed for an open back cab.


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## DirtySteve

GIBSON67 said:


> Steve, I have a Celestion G12H100 8 ohms that I can let go cheap. I haven't really used it much because I am a 4x12 man, now. $60 shipped and it's your's, and I'll even take returns if you don't like it. I've had it for a while but now I need some cash to pay for my new 425A! And no big deal if you want to pass, either...PM me if you want it...
> 
> Tim



I just did a search and came up with some pretty good reviews...PM sent.


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## Ascension

Cadblaster said:


> I'm wondering why you guy's are recommending a retro 30 and a reaper ???
> Nothing against WGS speakers, just questioning the choice of models.
> The OP said he was trying to tame the highs from what he already has.
> I think the Retro 30 and Reaper are both brighter on the top end than a 70/80



I own a 70/ eighty a Retro30 and a Vet 30.
the 70/Eighty is a dark speaker but also sloppy and loose.
the retro if a 70/ eighty was too bright would NOT be a good fit however the Vet would. Smooth fat and a LOT tighter than the 70/Eighty.
If you want even darker go with the HM 75.
I REALLY like my WGS stuff. So much so that right now none of my Celestions are in cabs or amps and in the slot is a WGS that should say something!


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## Ascension

Micky said:


> I don't think it is an issue so much for 'taming the highs' as it is for emphasizing the lows.
> In an open back speaker cab, you immediately lose a lot of the 'thump' you would normally have in a closed back design, so I don't think there is really anything that will cut back the higher freqs.
> 
> Putting some of the low-end crunch back in will even out the response, that's why you need to look at a speaker that is designed for an open back cab.



That is exactly why I recommended the WGS Vet 30 they kill in an open back cab!!
I have one right now in my Blackstar open back 1/12 and it sounds HUGE!


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## DirtySteve

Bloodrock said:


> I use the WGS et65's mixed with v30's. They would be a great speaker for the 40c IMO.



It just has the one speaker, or did you just mean "they" as in the WGS et65s? A G12?65 (can't remember the letter) was mentioned in another thread, I was wondering how the et65s compare.


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## DirtySteve

Ugh...my head is spinning now! I wish there was a way a guy could try them all and then decide.


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## GIBSON67

Your avatar could make my head spin, nice!


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## DirtySteve

I'm going to take GIBSON67 up on his offer and try it out. It may or may not be what I'm looking for so keep the suggestions coming. I'm learning something here and I doubt I'll be the only one looking to swap out the 70/80. :cool2:


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## Micky

DirtySteve said:


> Ugh...my head is spinning now! I wish there was a way a guy could try them all and then decide.



A guy could go broke trying...
But WGS and Eminence spkrs are running 70-80 bucks, you can't really go wrong.

I put a Texas Heat in my Princeton Reverb rebuild, and I love it. 150 watt speaker in a 15 watt combo...


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## DirtySteve

Yeah I meant like someplace that has everything and you can take your amp in and try them all out until you find the right one, you know?...I was fantasizing, lol. 

I'm really curious about the Eminence speakers, especially the Redcoat series so I'm really hoping to hear from Marty.


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## Ricochet

Stringjunkie said:


> It's still not enough for a 40w amp though.



Is it? Unless he dimes it hours on end, I'd say even the 30W is safe.


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## DirtySteve

I just talked to my friend that I sold my Vet 30 to and He's going to let me borrow it back from him and give it a test run.


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## JohnH

It might be worth testing what a beam blocker could do. I find them helpful. You can start by hanging a cardboard disk about 6" diameter in front. No risk to try it!
And play with those resonance and presence knobs (im envious of those)

J


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## DirtySteve

JohnH said:


> It might be worth testing what a beam blocker could do. I find them helpful. You can start by hanging a cardboard disk about 6" diameter in front. No risk to try it!
> And play with those resonance and presence knobs (im envious of those)
> 
> J



I hadn't even thought of that, thanks. I completely forgot that I've had to do that before and it really helps. Way back when I read a lot about different ways to do it, but it's been so long it completely slipped my mind. You just might be on to something.


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## mickeydg5

I was wondering the same. How are the gain, volume, tone controls, presence and resonance set?
That is a nice avatar.


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## Stringjunkie

I have a Reaper and a Retro 30 in 1x12 closed cabs. I just don't see the brightness issue you guys are talking about. I have not played a Vet 30, so I can't compare. 
I'm also using my Orange, which is a bit of a dark amp, and my JCM1. Maybe the JCM1 just isn't bright? Maybe I'm tone deaf (possible).


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## DirtySteve

mickeydg5 said:


> I was wondering the same. How are the gain, volume, tone controls, presence and resonance set?
> That is a nice avatar.



Treb 3, mids 6, bass 4, pres 2, res 3, but I'm very much still experimenting. Those were my settings last night at low volume. I've been rolling NOS pres as well so those setting are with the tubes I have in it now. They changed every time the preamp line up did, but I'm set with whats in there now for a while.


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## DirtySteve

Stringjunkie said:


> I have a Reaper and a Retro 30 in 1x12 closed cabs. I just don't see the brightness issue you guys are talking about. I have not played a Vet 30, so I can't compare.
> I'm also using my Orange, which is a bit of a dark amp, and my JCM1. Maybe the JCM1 just isn't bright? Maybe I'm tone deaf (possible).



The DSL is brighter than those I believe. It's also a partially open back. I listened to all the WGS clips today so after I try the Veteran 30 I should be able to tell if the Retro would be any better by comparing the demos. (did that make sense?) I didn't like the bottom end on the Reaper I tried before I bought my Vet 30. (I actually traded it back to WGS for it. awesome company, they even payed the shipping)


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## Stringjunkie

I just took a stab in the dark when I ordered mine. For the longest time I was going to go with the green beret. Then for some reason I went with this one. Still not sure if it's better or not but I like it though and it does pair well with the reaper.


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## DirtySteve

I had a Green Beret that I traded it to RiverRatt for some tubes. I also have a 10" Scumback GB clone and I just don't get along with greenbacks.


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## DirtySteve

BTW if any one needs a couple of 10" speakers I have a Scumback SA10M75 and a WGS veteran 20 I'd be willing to trade for one good 12".


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## jvm210guy

It's going to take a while, but I'm going to get a v30 and I'll let you guys know what I find....


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## DirtySteve

Cool man. I'm looking forward to hearing what you think. Are you like me in thinking the 70/80 has some piercing highs? What is it you don't like about it? I would imagine the JJ you put in V1 took some of the edge off. i was going to try on, just to see what it was like after you talked about it, but it turns out I don't have one anymore. 

It's not that I want to cut the highs, I just want to take the edge off, tighten up the bass and add some growl and warmth to the mids. (again, I'm not sure if I'm using the right terminology)


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## MartyStrat54

That's the problem with speakers, they are expensive to mess around with. I spent $4000 with Eminence in 2010 experimenting with various speakers.

Right off the bat, the speaker that came to mind is the Eminence Red, White and Blues. This is designed to have tight low end in a combo cab. It has nice smooth midrange and peaks out at 4.5KHz. I stated in another post that it might be too much going from a speaker that is rated at 5.5KHz to one that is rated at 4.5KHz. However, the Red, White and Blues will tame high end brilliance. Please note that this speaker is only available in 8 ohms.


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## DirtySteve

Thanks Marty, that's one I hadn't even considered. I was mainly looking at the Redcoats. I checked some reviews and sound clips and it does seem like it would be a good choice. It's just hard to tell without playing one. 

I wonder if I get it from GC if I can use the 30 day return policy?...just thinking out loud here.


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## shades of blue

As you know I have the DSL100 and I too find it bright as well. It's just the new DSL line in general. The 70/80s are notoriously bright and sizzly IMO, so I can hear perfectly in my head what you are trying to tame. 

I know you said no Greenbacks, but why not try a new Creamback? I got mine for 139 new from Sweetwater. I'm afraid a Greenback style speaker is the perfect remedy to this amps sizzle.


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## DirtySteve

My experience with GB type speakers has turned me off on them, esp. as a stand alone speaker. My biggest problem is the low end. Aren't the Creambacks just a higher wattage Greenback?


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## Georgiatec

GIBSON67 said:


> Steve, I have a Celestion G12H100 8 ohms that I can let go cheap. I haven't really used it much because I am a 4x12 man, now. $60 shipped and it's your's, and I'll even take returns if you don't like it. I've had it for a while but now I need some cash to pay for my new 425A! And no big deal if you want to pass, either...PM me if you want it...
> 
> Tim



Buy it, put it in.....


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## Cadblaster

WGS tone chart, Bottom of page...
http://wgs4.com/sites/default/files/WGS2011.pdf

I've never tried one but want to: British Lead 80 seems to meet what your describing. Good bottom end, Good mids, and slightly rolled highs.


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## DirtySteve

Georgiatec said:


> Buy it, put it in.....



Already in the works.


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## shades of blue

DirtySteve said:


> My experience with GB type speakers has turned me off on them, esp. as a stand alone speaker. My biggest problem is the low end. Aren't the Creambacks just a higher wattage Greenback?




They are indeed a higher wattage Greenback, but the higher power gives them better bass response and according to Celestion, actually provides the tonal characteristics of a GB/V30 combo.

I agree with the GB not being the best in the bass department, but it will definitely tame those highs. Not only that, but I find that with the DSL I'd rather tame the highs and add in bass than the other way around.


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## DirtySteve

Well, another thing I want to accomplish besides taming the highs is to tighten up the bottom and if it wasn't for that I would be looking at a Green Beret. I'm going to try the G12H100 from Tim first and it's already in the works. I hope it will be the tits and I'll be done, but I've learned not to get my hopes up too much, so we'll see. 

(Tim, I'm not going to wait, it'll be a done deal Saturday. ?)


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## GIBSON67

I hope you like it, because I'd like to sell it. My 4210 cab is pretty small and when the amplifier is not in there, it's becomes a really really open back cab. I don't need the cab any more even though it is original to the chassis. I won't be switching back to a combo.

But I mailed it, today. And it should be there on Tuesday.


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## DirtySteve

Thanks man, looking forward to it!


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## Georgiatec

I like it when you two guys are in the same thread...I spend more time looking at avatars than I do reading the thread.


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## strathaze

Ok. Picked one of these up on Saturday. What a little beauty. Here are my settings: tr. 5, mids 4, bass 3-4, pre 5, res 8.
Sorry dirtysteve, I'm not hearing what you are hearing, quite happy with the 70/80 & imagine it will get better as it breaks in. One thing though, first impression is it doesn't like single coils, ie the strat lasted 3 minutes then I went back to the les Paul. Also crank this thing!! It likes loud! I thought it was a bit fizzy on lead 1 & 2, and it is a wee bit at bedroom volumes but get the master up to 4-5, hey presto - classic EL34 mid roar!


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## DirtySteve

Congrats on your NAD, man! Those settings would rip my ears off, lol. I get what your saying and I liked it at first, too. I was happy with the eq, pres & res all at noon then, but the more I played it I needed to start screwing with the eq to try to tame the highs. I cranked the hell out of it for the first too weeks trying to get the speaker to start breaking in and the more I played it the less I liked it. We'll see, I should know if it was all in my head or not in a couple of days when I swap it out.


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## Strateuphoria

Celestion G12H65/ Marshall Heritage speakers sound good in an openback combo, 
The breakup is a little different to greenbacks, has that warm tone
not familiar with the WGS range.


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## DirtySteve

The only reason I didn't consider that one is because of the price. Was it you that suggested it to me before in another thread? I looked at them and I can't swing that kind of cash right now unless I put off my Tele and I don't want to do that, lol. I wonder how the WGS version compares.


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## strathaze

Alright it's night 3 and I have had an objective look/listen. Dirtysteve IMO it's the difference in treble response between the two channels that's the problem, lead 1 on the settings I described above is perfect with the gain on about 41/2, switch back to the other channel and the bass does turn a bit flubby and loose? Is that the word I'm looking for? After messing around with it I found putting a ge-7 EQ or similar in front of the guitar, set to taste, goes a long way to fixing the problem with the classic gain channel. Edit: it does create an extra foot action to switch to the lead channel in a live situation, which I'm not so keen on.
In regards to the honkiness that you hear, I do too!! Difference is I love it!
Just highlights the difference in folks perception of 'tone' and none of us are wrong or right,we just hear differently, is all.
To anyone reading this thread, don't be put off getting this amp, it's brilliant for what you pay for it, I think Marshall have done very well here.


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## shades of blue

I jammed a bit last night with a buddy and the brightness goes away when you are competing in a mix. It was the best tone I've heard from my rig in years...I'm so pleased with the DSL100. I'm running my Treble on 3, presence on about 2. I roll my guitars tone to about half too...tones are heavenly, so at this point I'm pretty excited to get my Creambacks in there.

I'll take a little brightness in the bedroom in return for a kick azz live tone anyday.


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## DirtySteve

I probably should've mentioned that I don't gig. I jam along to tunes and occasionally jam with someone, but not very often so it's mostly by my lonesome.


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## shades of blue

DirtySteve said:


> I probably should've mentioned that I don't gig. I jam along to tunes and occasionally jam with someone, but not very often so it's mostly by my lonesome.



Understood. Heck, I play alone 98% of the time.


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## Georgiatec

Yo Steve! ...Have you put that G12H 100 in your baby yet?


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## Australian

I had one of those DSL's years ago, and wanted it to be more defined. Looking back now a V30 probably would have been perfect.


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## DirtySteve

No, I'm hoping it shows today, but the mail hasn't ran yet.


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## Georgiatec

DirtySteve said:


> No, I'm hoping it shows today, but the mail hasn't ran yet.



fingers crossed for you man. I picked up a couple of G12T 100's cheap so I'll be interested what you reckon to your "H". If someone knows what the difference between the G12T/H/K is please feel free to chime in...cone thickness??


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## DirtySteve

From Avatarspeakers.com...Celestion Speaker Replacements

"The Celestion G12T100 is a higher powered, even better sounding version of the famous G12T75. With a massive 100W power rating, this speaker sits perfectly in high-power or hybrid amplifiers. It voices a modern sound with a big bass presence. Fantastic for 212s or 412s or anything high gain."

"Celestion’s very own monster of rock, the G12K-100, makes full use of the heaviest G12 magnet to combine huge power handling with superb clarity across a wide frequency response. A massive bottom-end, rock-hard midrange and restrained top-end make this the perfect speaker to add thump and grind to modern high-gain tones."

They don't describe the G12H 100 though.


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## DirtySteve

It just arrived. 

Thanks Tim!  ...hopefully I'll get it it swapped out tonight.


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## GIBSON67

Good luck and I hope you like it!


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## Georgiatec

Steve wins the avatar compe tit ion .
I'm gonna put one of the G12T 100's in my DSL 401 and t'other in a 1 x 12 extension cab. We must compare notes or should that be tones.  They are Chinese and say "Hot 100" on the backs.


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## DirtySteve

You bet! I'm going to set all my knobs at noon and play it with the 70/80 with it set like that, then I'll swap it out and play it again with the same settings. At least that should be a good comparison to the 70/80 anyway.


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## Strateuphoria

Georgiatec said:


> Steve wins the avatar compe tit ion .
> I'm gonna put one of the G12T 100's in my DSL 401 and t'other in a 1 x 12 extension cab. We must compare notes or should that be tones.  They are Chinese and say "Hot 100" on the backs.



Hot 100, "Big clear tone with extra bass bottom end" ...yeah, that sounds about right  for an open back combo


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## DirtySteve

Found this thread on the G12H 100. http://www.marshallforum.com/cabinets-speakers/29109-g12h-100-celestions-my-1982a.html

It was one of the things I found when I did a search and the reason I jumped on it. I found a few good reviews on TGP, too.


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## DirtySteve

Ok, first impressions...it seems to be equally as bright, haha...but it's in a different place. Does that make any sense? It's different and not as piercing to my ears, but it's still bright. Ibanezmark described this speaker as a "V30 on steroids" in the link I posted above and I totally get that. At first listen that's exactly what I thought of. The bottom is huge and much tighter and punchier. Jury's still out on the mids, but I think they aren't as "thick" as with the seventy/80. 

I'm not so sure yet if it's going to be "the one", I need to give it more time. I only played for about 30 min, but I know (at least for now) I like it much better than what was in there!!!


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## Georgiatec

DirtySteve said:


> Ok, first impressions...it seems to be equally as bright, haha...but it's in a different place. Does that make any sense? It's different and not as piercing to my ears, but it's still bright. Ibanezmark described this speaker as a "V30 on steroids" in the link I posted above and I totally get that. At first listen that's exactly what I thought of. The bottom is huge and much tighter and punchier. Jury's still out on the mids, but I think they aren't as "thick" as with the seventy/80.
> 
> I'm not so sure yet if it's going to be "the one", I need to give it more time. I only played for about 30 min, but I know (at least for now) I like it much better than what was in there!!!



Cool...I put my "Hot 100" in the 401 last night and left an ipod playing through it over night to try to break it in a little. I will be home this afternoon so I'll give it a workout and post my thoughts....maybe a soundcloud clip if I get time.


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## shades of blue

DirtySteve said:


> Ok, first impressions...it seems to be equally as bright, haha...but it's in a different place. Does that make any sense? It's different and not as piercing to my ears, but it's still bright. Ibanezmark described this speaker as a "V30 on steroids" in the link I posted above and I totally get that. At first listen that's exactly what I thought of. The bottom is huge and much tighter and punchier. Jury's still out on the mids, but I think they aren't as "thick" as with the seventy/80.
> 
> I'm not so sure yet if it's going to be "the one", I need to give it more time. I only played for about 30 min, but I know (at least for now) I like it much better than what was in there!!!



Just sayin....


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## Georgiatec

Had a blast with my 401 for about an hour after work today. After the V30 and the Marshall gold 100 that have been in there the word is *BASS* and plenty of it. Had to put a lot of the middle back in that I'd taken off for the V30's and knock the bass back a little (from full to 7. This has real potential at volume though. I had cranked the master up to 4 and it was loud. I'm really looking forward to band practise on Sunday so I can use it with the 1 x 12 extension with t'other Hot 100 in it. I'm going to take my Tascam DP-01 there and record some stuff...haven't got time to set up today.


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## DirtySteve

After playing it for the last hour and a half I can definitely say that it's MUCH better than the stock speaker. The bottom kicks ass, like I said above. It's tight and chunky and the lower mids sound thick and wooly, very nice. The top end sounds really good too except for one thing and I have to be honest...there's this chimy high pitched "thing" going on top of everything that after spending some time with the eq I was able to tame, but not dial out. I don't know how to describe it, but it's always there even if I'm just picking on the low strings. I suck at describing sound, but that's the best word I can come up with. It sounds fantastic clean and semi dirty blues stuff it shines, but I'm more into higher gain hard rock and metal and that's where that harsh chime comes in and sits on top of everything.

I'm either going to try and come up with some kind of a beam blocker and see if that works or I might be saving this one for a future cab down the road and pair it with something else. I have a GC coupon and found out the 30 day return policy does apply on speakers so I'm going to experiment a little bit. 

GIBSON67, don't even think twice about it, this is the best speaker purchase I've made so far, I like it much better than the Vet30s and GBs I've had. If the beam blocker doesn't work out I don't have any immediate plans, but I want to try it in a cab before I rule it out.


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## Vinsanitizer

DirtySteve said:


> Yes I have, but I've been fooled by demos too many times now and I just don't trust that they'll sound the same in my amp with my setup.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have 2 Godins. (...for now) Both guitars have the same neck, mahogany/rosewood. The one on the left is a solid maple body loaded with MHD Straitjacket Tele set, the one on the right is a mahogany body loaded with MHD Stangkfingers.
> 
> Yes I need to tame the highs and the bottom needs to be tighter. There's kind of a "honk" throughout that I want to get rid of and the mids, well thats where most of the "honk" seems to be. I'm not sure if honk is the right word, I might not be describing it right.


 
Why do you have your DSL on that riser - is it aethstetic or is there a specific reason?

Highs - yeah it's a bright amp. On the ultra channel I have my treble between 0-2 and keep the presence off. To keep the low end tight I turn the resonance off, keep the bass at 9:00-10:00, and mids between noon and 2:00. I do not use the tone shift (button out).


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## DirtySteve

I live on a plywood raised floor and when my amp is sitting directly on it the bass vibrates through the floor and rattles everything in the house. So, I have it sitting up on 12"x12" cement pavers stacked with 1/4" thick rubber pads in between them. It just cuts down on the vibration through the floor joists. lmao, I can't believe someone asked! It took me 2 years to come up with that and I may be nuts, but it works for me! :cool2:


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## DirtySteve

Vinsanitizer said:


> Highs - yeah it's a bright amp. On the ultra channel I have my treble between 0-2 and keep the presence off. To keep the low end tight I turn the resonance off, keep the bass at 9:00-10:00, and mids between noon and 2:00. I do not use the tone shift (button out).



I had my settings similar to that except I need the highs up higher or it loses it's edge and bite. I just need to round the highs off some and get rid of that honk thing I was talking about. The G12H100 did just that and tighted up the bottom, but unfortunately id added some thing else that the more I play it the more I realize I'm not going to be able to live with.


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## Vinsanitizer

DirtySteve said:


> Cool man. I'm looking forward to hearing what you think. Are you like me in thinking the 70/80 has some piercing highs? What is it you don't like about it? I would imagine the JJ you put in V1 took some of the edge off. i was going to try on, just to see what it was like after you talked about it, but it turns out I don't have one anymore.
> 
> It's not that I want to cut the highs, I just want to take the edge off, tighten up the bass and add some growl and warmth to the mids. (again, I'm not sure if I'm using the right terminology)


 
I describe the highs as edgey - it's higher than a piercing sound, it's more edge to me. This wouldn't work for creamier-sustainy lead tones, but it does help retain clarity when rolling the guitar's volume down, and also helps keep the cleaner tones sparkling particularly with single coils.

I don't care for that edgey-ness myself, but I do kind accept it as a trade-off for clearer clean tones. But I also wonder if the treble is reduced when the amp is cranked past a certain point - why else would Marshall have made the amp so bright? I like sparkling clean/dirty rhythm tones, but a big fat sustainy lead - not creamy like I would describe Satriani, but fat/thick.

It'll be interesting how this topic pans out for other users over the next year or so.


----------



## Vinsanitizer

DirtySteve said:


> I live on a plywood raised floor and when my amp is sitting directly on it the bass vibrates through the floor and rattles everything in the house. So, I have it sitting up on 12"x12" cement pavers stacked with 1/4" thick rubber pads in between them. It just cuts down on the vibration through the floor joists. lmao, I can't believe someone asked! It took me 2 years to come up with that and I may be nuts, but it works for me! :cool2:


 
Yeah I do that too in smaller rooms in the house - it rattles the windows, floor... when I play it in my guitar room where 8 acoustics are hanging on the wall, all the strings vibrate in sympathy and it's an interesting sound in the room. LOL!!


----------



## Vinsanitizer

DirtySteve said:


> I had my settings similar to that except I need the highs up higher or it loses it's edge and bite. I just need to round the highs off some and get rid of that honk thing I was talking about. The G12H100 did just that and tighted up the bottom, but unfortunately id added some thing else that the more I play it the more I realize I'm not going to be able to live with.


 
I wonder how a Vintage 30 would sound in it myself, I always liked those. Had 4x12 I wish I kept.


----------



## DirtySteve

Vinsanitizer said:


> I describe the highs as edgey - it's higher than a piercing sound, it's more edge to me. *This wouldn't work for creamier-sustainy lead tones,* but it does help retain clarity when rolling the guitar's volume down, and also helps keep the cleaner tones sparkling particularly with single coils.



thats exactly what I want and why I have a problem with the highs!



Vinsanitizer said:


> I describe the highs as edgey - it's higher than a piercing sound, it's more edge to me. This wouldn't work for creamier-sustainy lead tones, *but it does help retain clarity when rolling the guitar's volume down,* and also helps keep the cleaner tones sparkling particularly with single coils.



With my pickups and a treble bleed mod that's not an issue.



Vinsanitizer said:


> It'll be interesting how this topic pans out for other users over the next year or so.



Yes it will, I can't be the only one.


----------



## DirtySteve

Vinsanitizer said:


> Yeah I do that too in smaller rooms in the house - it rattles the windows, floor... when I play it in my guitar room where 8 acoustics are hanging on the wall, all the strings vibrate in sympathy and it's an interesting sound in the room. LOL!!



I only have one acoustic, but when I get the volume up enough it gets with it! It's almost like it's trying to play along.


----------



## Vinsanitizer

strathaze said:


> Alright it's night 3 and I have had an objective look/listen. Dirtysteve IMO it's the difference in treble response between the two channels that's the problem, lead 1 on the settings I described above is perfect with the gain on about 41/2, switch back to the other channel and the bass does turn a bit flubby and loose? Is that the word I'm looking for? After messing around with it I found putting a ge-7 EQ or similar in front of the guitar, set to taste, goes a long way to fixing the problem with the classic gain channel. Edit: it does create an extra foot action to switch to the lead channel in a live situation, which I'm not so keen on.
> In regards to the honkiness that you hear, I do too!! Difference is I love it!
> Just highlights the difference in folks perception of 'tone' and none of us are wrong or right,we just hear differently, is all.
> To anyone reading this thread, don't be put off getting this amp, it's brilliant for what you pay for it, I think Marshall have done very well here.


 
I agree with all that. My approach in the past has always been to use EQ'ing in the front end or via the FX loop, depending on my needs. I find that low end 'flubbiness' on the clean channel occurs on most channel switching Marshalls, including the TSL, DSL and JVM - I don't know why Marshall does this, I suspect they're trying to recapture the sound of older models I've never played. The gain on the clean channel is nice and crunchy, but the bass always needs to have everything under 100Hz removed before the input. It may need to be switched back in when using the Ultra channel.

I don't want to detract from the awesomness of the DSL40C, I've found that no amp is ultimate perfection out of the box. The way I manage a dozen things at the flip of a single switch is by using a Boss GT floor unit either in the FX loop or using the four-cable-method, which allows you to control your Input, FX Loop, EQ, compression, FX, gates and switching from a single board. For the price of two speakers, you can have a box that gives you a hundred times more potential, both through the front-end and FX loop separately (because it can act as a dual processor). 

I'm not suggesting that the above solution is right for everyone, but I have to say that, in the past I have fallen into a vicious cycle of replacing speakers and pickups and tubes and rebiasing and modifying my amps and... man, there has to be an easier way of controlling each aspect of tone. The Boss GT did it, separately for each of my amps, each guitar, and many more guitar & amp combinations - you set one up, save the patch(es) and BAM! - it changes your channels and configures every aspect of your tone at the kick of a single switch.

The DSL40C is an incredible amp, especially for $699. I like it much more than the older DSL401 because it actually has EL34s, a much better stock speaker (the 401 was fizzy). Partly because of the larger cabinet, the DSL40C doesn't sound boxy like the 401 did - it sounds full and balanced. I don't hear anything funky in the 40C's midrange, but I do like that it has more mids - they're not as agressive as the old Marshalls back in the day, but they seem more pronounced than the older DSL and TSL, which were following the Rectifier trend.

Consider this and let it pass through your mental digesticals for a while.


----------



## Stringjunkie

Digesticals? Lmfao


----------



## strathaze

I do agree with all that V. And in actual fact I have a Boss ME50 sitting in front of the dsl with the "tone modify" control set to "fat" permanently for the classic gain channel. What it does is tighten up the bass and "fatten" up the overall response, giving (to my ears anyway) a beautiful creamy rhythm tone reminiscent of an acdc shoot to thrill sound, which is where I wanna be. This amp out of the box has gone close to giving me the tones I need with nothing but a cable between the guitar and amp, it's a massive improvement over the Blackstar ht60 I have.
I,m like you, I don't have the cash to be changing out speakers and tubes every week but if after six months there's a consensus here that the amp really is improved by dumping the 70/80 for a greenback or something then I would consider it. But I refuse to fall into the trap of listening to clips on YouTube and thinking "why can't I get a sound like that? I"d better start looking for a new amp/guitar/fx " etc. The DSL does what it does very, very well
For a $799( aus) valve amp, there's nothing that comes close IMHO. THis is the amp that the Haze should/could have been.


----------



## DirtySteve

Update:

So now that I've played the G12H100 for a few days I decided to swap the seventy/80 back in just for shits and grins. The G12H100 is still way better IMO, but it's still got that bright streak at just the right frequency that plays hell with my tinnitus. So, unfortunately it's not the one.

I ordered an Eminence Red White & Blues with a 15% coupon at GC yesterday. I should have it monday or tuesday. The 30 day return policy does apply so if it doesn't work out I can return it and try something else. My buddies dragging his ass on letting me try the Veteran 30. I think he's afraid I'll want it back!  I wouldn't ask for it back though, I just want to see how it sounds!!


----------



## GIBSON67

Sorry, you didn't like it completely, Steve. I never really used it much, but It was a bright speaker with a huge bottom. Good review, I thought.


----------



## Strateuphoria

strathaze said:


> I do agree with all that V. And in actual fact I have a Boss ME50 sitting in front of the dsl with the "tone modify" control set to "fat" permanently for the classic gain channel. What it does is tighten up the bass and "fatten" up the overall response, giving (to my ears anyway) a beautiful creamy rhythm tone reminiscent of an acdc shoot to thrill sound, which is where I wanna be. This amp out of the box has gone close to giving me the tones I need with nothing but a cable between the guitar and amp, it's a massive improvement over the Blackstar ht60 I have.
> I,m like you, I don't have the cash to be changing out speakers and tubes every week but if after six months there's a consensus here that the amp really is improved by dumping the 70/80 for a greenback or something then I would consider it. But I refuse to fall into the trap of listening to clips on YouTube and thinking "why can't I get a sound like that? I"d better start looking for a new amp/guitar/fx " etc. The DSL does what it does very, very well
> For a $799( aus) valve amp, there's nothing that comes close IMHO. THis is the amp that the Haze should/could have been.



Yeah, haven't they discontinued the Haze now anyway


----------



## DirtySteve

GIBSON67 said:


> Sorry, you didn't like it completely, Steve. I never really used it much, but It was a bright speaker with a huge bottom. Good review, I thought.



Don't sweat it bro, I'm sure I'll find a use for it later on or maybe I'll find someone that needs that particular speaker or something. It's all good and all part of the game!


----------



## DirtySteve

Ok, I picked up my Eminence Red White & Blues today and it sounds great right off the bat, but I need to give it more time. I may have gone from one extreme to the other with this one, I don't know yet. The bottom sounds incredible right out of the box, but it's a darker speaker for sure. Even if I turn the bass all the way down and dime the treb and mids it's still thick. In a good way but it might be more the other way than I want. 

I need to give it more time and it needs to break in some. the highs are a little brittle, but sound good. I'm just not sure yet...I'll know more after I play it some more. Damn it does sound good though and I bet it sounds awesome in a cab mixed with a brighter speaker, like the G12H100 or maybe a V 30 type, but since I don't have a cab I can't experiment. 

More to come...:cool2:


----------



## shades of blue

I hope you find the right speaker for you, but it is GREAT to hear that you at least found a speaker that warrants some EQ adjustments. I know the speaker is dark, but at least it gives some hope that the right speaker could tame this amp.

I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but I've got my Creambacks under the tree waiting to be put in on Christmas. I'm very interested to see how they change the tone. Right now, I've got my mids and bass at 2 oclock and the treble at 8 oclock and it sounds perfect with the G12T-75's in my 2x12.

My hypothesis with the Creambacks is that I can turn the mids down to 11 oclock and the treble up a hair. I don't think that the Creambacks will instantly give me use of the treble knob, but I do think they will help mellow some of the directness out of my DSL100H.

Very interested to read further into your speaker search! OH!!! the JJ's in the preamp section did wonders for the harshness of the highs. Now it is still bright, but not quite as piercing if that makes any sense....just a touch softer sounding.


----------



## DirtySteve

Played again this morning before work and I'm very impressed with it now! Had to let my ears rest I guess. It's such a different eq. I LOVE the bottom and mids on this thing, holy shit! It's so thick and tight and just roars. The highs are much better. They are still there, but not as piercing so it was deceiving at first and I thought it was darker than it is. Very cool sounding speaker. I have my pres at 6, Res at 0, treb at 8, mids at 7 and bass around 4. The tone shift is usable now as well as the lead 2 mode. I've only played it at low volume so far, I can't wait to get off work today and crank it!


----------



## tresmarshallz

First I want to say I realize my comment below is unhelpful and probably unwelcome, but it is my observation. I've owned at least three 'new production' amps made after yr 2000 or so, DSL, TSL, Laney GH50L, and they ALL have certain treble/briteness that cannont be smoothed out or dialed out no matter what speaker etc you use. I spent over half my playing time trying to tweak the EQ to my liking.

Then I made the move to older amps SLX, JMP, JCM800, Mesa DC, and they are all very different in this regard, very smooth tone with no bright harsh edge, and sound good all over the EQ spectrum, rarely hear harsh treble with any speaker type.

Good luck finding your sound.


----------



## DirtySteve

Not unwelcome at all, it's cool and I understand what you're saying too. Overall I'm very happy with my DSL and my treble issue is really just nit picking. Because I play at home by myself in a small apartment with not very good acoustics and tinnitus that the piercing highs aggravates is the only reason I'm messing with it. Plus I think it's fun a I'm learning a lot about speakers and customizing my sound. 

I think this RW&Bs just might be what I was looking for. Like I said, I need to give it more time, but what I heard this morning put a big ole smile on my face! It's not even so much that it tamed the highs as much as what it did to the bottom and mids to fill in. I'm definitely on the right track for what I was looking for.


----------



## DirtySteve

Cranked it a little while ago and those piercing highs jumped right out on top with the volume up...I'm disappointed, maybe it's time to try a beam blocker.


----------



## paul-e-mann

DirtySteve said:


> I probably should've mentioned that I don't gig. I jam along to tunes and occasionally jam with someone, but not very often so it's mostly by my lonesome.



Steve have you tried an eq pedal in the loop? That was the #1 fix I read about for the JCM900, this could work for you. Before you spend another dime on speakers try that. Also you gotta remember, the DSL channels dont match on the old ones and the new ones are probably the same (red is brighter than green). What does the green crunch channel sound like with an OD pedal on it? I barely use my red channel, you may find all you need is the green. Beam blockers - just put a square of duct tape over the center of your grill, this does the same thing. Also JJ E34L and KT77 power tubes will help tame some of the brightness and produce a tighter and bigger bottom end. I dont know if this is a productive suggestion but have you ever tried an MG like a 30 watter? They sound pretty good especially jamming at home along with an mp3 player. I miss my MG sometimes just for those reasons when I'm playing along with a song trying to learn it, also those late nights when I wish I had headphone ability. The MG sounds stellar through a good pair of headphones. Doesnt hurt to own tube and SS.


----------



## DirtySteve

Thanks man. I tried my MXR 10 band in the loop today and it helps. SS is not going to cut it. That's what I've always used until recently and I'm sticking with the tubes. I sold a PV Silverstripe Bandit last year. I just sold a VOX Chrome series. I'm keeping my MG15 because along with a Digitech RP 150, it's my drummer for now, haha.


----------



## DirtySteve

I'm returning the BR&Bs. It's TOO thick and everything kind of mushes together in the lower mids making it not very articulate and almost muddy. It was a fun change for a few days, but not what I'm looking for. 



pedecamp said:


> Also JJ E34L and KT77 power tubes will help tame some of the brightness and produce a tighter and bigger bottom end.



Maybe this is a better route to take first. Maybe I'm better off sticking with the 70/80 and looking at taming with tubes. I still wonder what the bias is, but I don't know what the numbers should be to check it. I also have some GT EL34Ms I've read good things about I'd like to try.


----------



## paul-e-mann

Are both channels equally bright? Did you try the beam blocker duct tape idea? How about an OD set as a clean boost on the green crunch? 

A combination of things will probably tame those highs, eq pedal, beam blocker, tubes, etc., all in unison.

Maybe a good 30 hours of high volume will break in that speaker.


----------



## DirtySteve

Man to be honest, I've only played the green channel a few times. I'm mostly concerned with the red lead 1 channel. If I want to rock some classic rock or blues I'm turning on my Class 5. I'm looking for a good hard rock/metal sound on my DSL that doesn't rip my ears off. I'm almost positive now that I'm over thinking the whole speaker thing and I need to go back and just start over. I've got NOS tubes in it and I did all that before I thought about the speaker. Right now I'm not so sure a couple of the tubes I'm usinfg aren't causing this. 

Tomorrow I'm going to put the stock speaker and tubes back in it and remember why I fell in love with it to begin with. I think maybe I started messing with shit before I even got used too the amp and that's probably where I went wrong. I might have just stuck both feet in my mouth this time. I wish I could leave shit alone, but it's just not in my nature.


----------



## shades of blue

DirtySteve said:


> Man to be honest, I've only played the green channel a few times. I'm mostly concerned with the red lead 1 channel. If I want to rock some classic rock or blues I'm turning on my Class 5. I'm looking for a good hard rock/metal sound on my DSL that doesn't rip my ears off. I'm almost positive now that I'm over thinking the whole speaker thing and I need to go back and just start over. I've got NOS tubes in it and I did all that before I thought about the speaker. Right now I'm not so sure a couple of the tubes I'm usinfg aren't causing this.
> 
> Tomorrow I'm going to put the stock speaker and tubes back in it and remember why I fell in love with it to begin with. I think maybe I started messing with shit before I even got used too the amp and that's probably where I went wrong. I might have just stuck both feet in my mouth this time. I wish I could leave shit alone, but it's just not in my nature.




I think you are going to find the same issue with the high end with the stock speaker and tubes. If you aren't happy with the high end then no speaker, beam blocker, or tubes is going to fix it. It's just the amp. I personally have no issue with turning the treble down low and turning down my tone on the guitar because the end result is amazing. Plus, I know that if I ever gig mine then I'll DEFINITELY be cutting through a mix like a hot knife through butta'.

I know you said you are playing at home, so maybe it's not the amp for you. I once owned a Dr Z that was extremely bright and I hated it, but for some reason the DSL100 doesn't bother me. Maybe it's my 2x12? I mean, it is BRIGHT, but it's not piercing to me like a Fender amp can be.

Another thing to maybe test is amp placement...is it on the floor or up in a stand? maybe try moving the amp around. I know that I HATE amp stands and refuse to use them because of the lack of body. I could probably write a more helpful post, but I can't stop gawking at your avatars


----------



## DirtySteve

Ok, I'm not going to mess with it anymore for now. I'm returning the RW&Bs for a tuner. I put the stock speaker back in, made a beam blocker and replaced a tube that had a bright edge to it and it's much better. It's still bright but it's not piercing like it was and the top end more spread out with the beam blocker. I just get stuck on things and over think them. I need to let the speaker break in good and then decide. 

Contrary to what it looks like in this thread, I do love the amp and I'm not looking to get rid of it. I just need to learn to have more patience. I went through the same thing with my Class 5 2 years ago and once the speaker broke in good it was fine. I'm sure this will probably be the same. If it's not, I'll worry about it then.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions guys, but this fiasco is over!


----------



## paul-e-mann

I was in GC again last night and gave the DSLs another run through and I'll tell you, the 40 watter is just like the older DSLs in respect to the red channel being brighter than the green. Red was too bright for my liking but the green sounded fantastic even with the speaker not broken in. If I were you I would fool around with some pedals on the green to get your rock/metal tones (set OD as a clean boost), I think you will be pleasantly surprised and forget about tone chasing for awhile. Mean time your speaker will break in and then you can go back to fooling with the red channel again, but beware you might end up liking the green channel permanently! The 15 watter i didnt care for so much but the DSL100H I was really liking alot in general overall!


----------



## DirtySteve

I haven't given the green channel much time I admit. For the first time I'm able to get the tone and feel I'm looking for with just 1 OD pedal, but that's on the red channel. I've always had to use 2 ODs or stack an OD with a distortion to get it with other amps. I also raised the bass side on my pickups and set up with 11s last night so my guitars not as bright. I think it's going to be just fine. I do need to venture over and see what the green channel can do though.


----------



## Far Rider

DirtySteve said:


> Ok, I'm not going to mess with it anymore for now. I'm returning the RW&Bs for a tuner. I put the stock speaker back in, made a beam blocker and replaced a tube that had a bright edge to it and it's much better. It's still bright but it's not piercing like it was and the top end more spread out with the beam blocker. I just get stuck on things and over think them. I need to let the speaker break in good and then decide.
> 
> Contrary to what it looks like in this thread, I do love the amp and I'm not looking to get rid of it. I just need to learn to have more patience. I went through the same thing with my Class 5 2 years ago and once the speaker broke in good it was fine. I'm sure this will probably be the same. If it's not, I'll worry about it then.
> 
> Thanks for all the help and suggestions guys, but this fiasco is over!



Didn't I say you would disturb the spirit within by getting gut shots? Didn't I?
Remember how great it sounded BEFORE you did that? I blame Big Dooley for this! He is the circuit board voyeur who corrupted you. But rest assured, salvation is at hand. Just gently reassemble and give it a nice caress. Overnight the spirit mojo will return.


----------



## DirtySteve

But I only took the back off!  I didn't pull the amp and take any gut shots....those weren't mine. The MOJO's still intact!


----------



## shades of blue

Glad you still dig the DSL Steve.

I've got to say though, that even though I'm in love with my DSL, I've still got an itch for a Fender Deluxe Reverb that I just can't scratch. Mesa has a new line of pedals coming out, and if they prove to be a hit, I could be selling my entire DSL rig and downsizing to a DRRI. All I need the DSL for is metal.


----------



## paul-e-mann

Steve do yourself a favor and jump to the green channel. You will be blown away with a good pedal on green over the red!


----------



## shades of blue

pedecamp said:


> Steve do yourself a favor and jump to the green channel. You will be blown away with a good pedal on green over the red!




Great point. I play the green channel on crunch mode with a Fulltone Fulldrive 2....wow, talk about some good tones. I also use the Fulldrive to "soften" the red channel


----------



## Georgiatec

For the record Steve, I use my DSL401 like this; Green with gain about 50% for cleans, turn down guitar volume for really clean. Kick in Joyo "Hot Plexi" for crunch...this is the best forty or so bucks I ever spent on a pedal...made my Boss BD-2, Digitech Bad Monkey and Akai Tri-mode o/d redundant. For solos I have the volume of the o/d channel up as far as I need to get a lift in volume with the gain at about 30% leaving the "Hot Plexi" in. Switch it off and go to the neck pup for some cleaner bluesier soloing. I use the orange channel only as the red just mushes the sound offering no benefit.

Now I know my "old" DSL is a different amp than the new one but just try that sort of set up. There are no o/d tones (that I like) to be found in my DSL _WITHOUT_ the pedal. As you report with yours very toppy and badly defined. The G12T 100 cures this to some extent but I still prefer the sound of the "Hot Plexi" in front. That is one great little pedal.


----------



## DirtySteve

After playing on the red channel all along now the green channel seems boring and lacks the aggressiveness I like in the red channel. It's does take care of the top end though. I'll have to experiment some more.


----------



## Billyblades

Suprised you didnt go with a wgs celestion copy? Seems like thats the mf fave?


----------



## Micky

So to get into this in even more detail, and not having the amp here in front of me, tell me what settings you are using most often.
I take it Lead1 is green? And lead 2 is red?
Never owning a DSL, especially a newer one I am in the dark, but it looks like the harshness or 'bright' may exist on only one of the gain stages, and I am still not sure exactly where you can adjust it.
I would like to figure this out, especially since I have been a very good boy and Santa may be very nice to me...


----------



## DirtySteve

There are 2 channels and each has 2 modes. 

The Classic gain - Clean/Crunch channel (also known as the green channel because the light is green) and the Ultra Gain - Lead1/Lead2 Channel (Red light)

The brightness is in the red channel lead 1 and that's what I'm using the most. I can (so far) get better crunch channel tones on my Class 5 so I'm all about the red channel lead 1. The problem is if the treble is up enough to get that tight punchy metal chug thing going it's piercing, but if you turn the treble down it loses the punch and dynamics. I'm getting it under control a lot better than I was before now that I'm spending more time with it, but not completely. Putting the beam blocker helped a lot.


----------



## Micky

OK, I have a better idea where to look now.
How do the resonance and presence controls work in combination to the EQ controls?
I notice the resonance and presence are wired into the power amp section, where the gain stages and switching are in the preamp stage around V1. The EQ controls are after V3 and after the gain stages.
Any chance these two other controls have anything to do with it?


----------



## DirtySteve

From what I understand the res is the same thing as the deep switch on the old ones only now it's adjustable. What it's actually doing I don't know and I'm not even sure how to describe it. I thickens everything up, but it's more than that. I just don't know how to describe what these controls do in relation to the eq. 

Maybe someone help me out here...


----------



## DirtySteve

You probably know this, but just in case...



big dooley said:


> V1 and V2 are the gain stages,
> V3 is the last gain stage and cathode follower
> V4 is the PI



^ quoted from another thread.


----------



## DirtySteve

This is turning into something else now...maybe we should start a new thread?


----------



## paul-e-mann

Steve how did the green crunch channel sound with an OD pedal on it? Do you have an eq pedal?


----------



## DirtySteve

I did and I like it, but for what I got out of it, my Class 5 does it better with that old school vibe. It's the same thing as with with my C5, I can't quite get what I want out of it. I get close, but it's just not there and that's why I bought the DSL, I switch to the red channel and there it is! I just need to tame that high end. I don't believe I'm going to be the only one and sooner or later it's going to come up somewhere. It's not so bad I don't like the amp...yet.


----------



## strathaze

Hi all - it's been a couple of weeks since I was on this thread, and in that time I have had a couple of rehearsals with my band with the dsl. The first one I was all over the shop getting the channel volumes right etc. the second one I really tried to hear it and fine tune it against the other guitarist (fender twin, gain supplied by an me50). Pretty much what I have been doing is maxing the gain on the green with the button in & running the volume at about 4 & a bit. This gives me a super crunch tone at that volume, full, rich and harmonic. If I need something a tad heavier I have (don't laugh!) a behringer blues driver copy in the line. Oh and also the tone modify parameter on my me50 is set to fat. The blues driver gives a tad more gain and volume. The only complaint is the ill-defined bottom end on that channel. I just can't get a decent chug out of it. I did have a boss EQ where the blues driver was but I didn't find that entirely satisfactory either. The red channel is set up as my lead channel only (man I can't deal with the amount of gain that red channel has, I can only run the gain control on 2, max 3, much less using the lead 2 option!) with the volume an additional 30% over the green channel. This REALLY cuts through being as bright as it is. Look I reckon I am 80% there, a decent true bypass OD would help, so that's the next thing. And don't worry about 40 watts not being heard, this little mutha is LOUD.
I await with interest more discussion about tubes, speakers etc, I would do a tube change if I could get a tight bottom end on the green channel!
,


----------



## paul-e-mann

Steve I think we all need to invest in a 2204 head or combo, thats the answer! I played one the other day and reminded myself how awesome an amp can sound. Better than any DSL or C5 or anything else I've played for sure!


----------



## DirtySteve

I wish I could afford one. I haven't recovered from buying my DSL yet. To be honest I've kind of been on a second honeymoon with my Class 5 the last few days. I never fully appreciated it for what it was until I had another Marshall to compare it with. What a kick ass little amp!


----------



## paul-e-mann

Get a 2nd C5 and a switcher, set one clean and the other dirty!


----------



## DirtySteve

I used to have 2 C5s and ran them together. I had a Cream one and a black one. I sold my cream one when the heads came out thinking Marshall was going to come out with colors on the heads. I was going to replace it with a cream head.  ...that didn't work out so well.


----------



## shades of blue

I'm considering sending back the Creambacks I ordered and selling the DSL100.

I can't get anything near what I'd call a decent clean tone out of the DSL, and I'm going to get a Fender Deluxe Reverb and some pedals and call it a day. The Marshall DSL is a fun amp, don't get me wrong. But I've not been able to dial in a killer metal tone, the cleans are ok at best, and I'm playing WAY too much classic rock haha.

Sounds great, but I can't justify the DSL anymore...time for a better clean tone.


----------



## DirtySteve

shades of blue said:


> I'm considering sending back the Creambacks I ordered and selling the DSL100.
> 
> I can't get anything near what I'd call a decent clean tone out of the DSL, and I'm going to get a Fender Deluxe Reverb and some pedals and call it a day. The Marshall DSL is a fun amp, don't get me wrong. But I've not been able to dial in a killer metal tone, the cleans are ok at best, and I'm playing WAY too much classic rock haha.
> 
> Sounds great, but I can't justify the DSL anymore...time for a better clean tone.



Ok now, i was hoping this thread would just die out before I had to fess up, but since you brought it up...I just haven't been ready to admit to myself I've made a mistake, but I think I have. I thought this amp was so bad ass the first few weeks, but then I started noticing things. I thought tubes and a speaker swap was going to be the fix, instead it just seems to be getting worse and I don't believe there's anything wrong with the amp. I think it's more like I'm getting used to it and my ears are getting used to it.

Since I put the beam blocker on it helped with the piercing highs, but now the gain sounds all buzzy and fuzzy and even "digital", like i'm playing my Metal Muff through a clean channel. The more I play it the more disappointed I am. I get everything else I need with my class 5 so all I want from the dsl is good metal tones at low volume. The only reason I went with the 40 watt because it's big enough for anything I should ever need for not much more than the 15 watt. 

I wish I could still return it, but it's way past the 30 day mark now. I should have returned it instead of fucking with it. I might hold out and see if any mods come along, but chances are I'll be looking for something else before it's over.


----------



## shades of blue

DirtySteve said:


> Ok now, i was hoping this thread would just die out before I had to fess up, but since you brought it up...I just haven't been ready to admit to myself I've made a mistake, but I think I have. I thought this amp was so bad ass the first few weeks, but then I started noticing things. I thought tubes and a speaker swap was going to be the fix, instead it just seems to be getting worse and I don't believe there's anything wrong with the amp. I think it's more like I'm getting used to it and my ears are getting used to it.
> 
> Since I put the beam blocker on it helped with the piercing highs, but now the gain sounds all buzzy and fuzzy and even "digital", like i'm playing my Metal Muff through a clean channel. The more I play it the more disappointed I am. I get everything else I need with my class 5 so all I want from the dsl is good metal tones at low volume. The only reason I went with the 40 watt because it's big enough for anything I should ever need for not much more than the 15 watt.
> 
> I wish I could still return it, but it's way past the 30 day mark now. I should have returned it instead of fucking with it. I might hold out and see if any mods come along, but chances are I'll be looking for something else before it's over.




It's ok buddy...I LOVED mine while I was in the honeymoon stage, but there is like no clean goodness with this amp and I took a chance and while I was all caught up in the dirty Les Paul goodness, I overlooked one simple fact...I need cleans for what I do! haha. 

No big deal though and no skin off anyone's nose...it will sit on CL until it's gone lol.


----------



## paul-e-mann

DirtySteve said:


> Ok now, i was hoping this thread would just die out before I had to fess up, but since you brought it up...I just haven't been ready to admit to myself I've made a mistake, but I think I have. I thought this amp was so bad ass the first few weeks, but then I started noticing things. I thought tubes and a speaker swap was going to be the fix, instead it just seems to be getting worse and I don't believe there's anything wrong with the amp. I think it's more like I'm getting used to it and my ears are getting used to it.
> 
> Since I put the beam blocker on it helped with the piercing highs, but now the gain sounds all buzzy and fuzzy and even "digital", like i'm playing my Metal Muff through a clean channel. The more I play it the more disappointed I am. I get everything else I need with my class 5 so all I want from the dsl is good metal tones at low volume. The only reason I went with the 40 watt because it's big enough for anything I should ever need for not much more than the 15 watt.
> 
> I wish I could still return it, but it's way past the 30 day mark now. I should have returned it instead of fucking with it. I might hold out and see if any mods come along, but chances are I'll be looking for something else before it's over.



Where'd you get it GC or MF? They have a 45 day return policy. If you passed the date reason with them youre real unhappy with it and you really want something else. They might give in.


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## DirtySteve

GC, i thought it was 30 days? I'm waiting on my guy to get back wednesday. He's one of the managers and I've been doing business with him for 7 years now. He can probably help me out, but we'll see.


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## strathaze

I'm going to miss your avatar's Dirtysteve [sad face]


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## DirtySteve

strathaze said:


> I'm going to miss your avatar's Dirtysteve [sad face]



What do you mean, I'm not going anywhere :cool2:...are you? ...did I miss something?


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## strathaze

DirtySteve said:


> What do you mean, I'm not going anywhere :cool2:...are you? ...did I miss something?



Nah man, I just spent a lot of time on the two threads cause I got a dsl round the same time as you. It was kinda like a death in the family when you decided your one wasn't for you. It's all good!


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## paul-e-mann

DirtySteve said:


> GC, i thought it was 30 days? I'm waiting on my guy to get back wednesday. He's one of the managers and I've been doing business with him for 7 years now. He can probably help me out, but we'll see.



Youre right GC is 30 and MusiciansFriend is 45. I always buy MF.


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## shades of blue

I'm a little torn as to what to do with my DSL. I'd sure love to keep it, but I simply can't justify keeping it just for a nice crunch tone. I've been putting off buying a DRRI for months because I wanted to give Marshall a fair shake, and while the crunch tones are good, there just isn't a good clean tone to be had on this amp.

There are some nice tones coming from this DSL, but not having a good clean channel is a deal killer.


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## Micky

Might wanna check this thread:

http://www.marshallforum.com/workbench/51152-dsl40c-100h-c19-bright-cap-mod.html


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## Micky

Figured I would revive this thread since it was NAD today.

I see what people mean when they say the Celestion 70/80 is harsh...
Fired up the DSL40c fresh outta the crunched shipping box, and I agree, the speaker is brite. (not broken in yet?...)

Immediately swapped it for the Eminence Texas Heat in my SFPR, and it is a win-win scenario.
The Fender LOVES the 70/80, and the DSL40c has some wicked thump to it now.
For a semi-open back combo, it does sound pretty good now...

I should start a new thread about the amp, but it has all been said before.
Even the 'Made In Vietnam' shit...

One thing - Swapping the speaker revealed the biggest QC problem I have ever seen. An extra back-screw washer fell outta the spider area, and the screw that went with it was in the bottom of the combo. Glad they didn't charge me extra for that...


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## DirtySteve

First off, happy NAD! 



Micky said:


> Figured I would revive this thread since it was NAD today.
> 
> I see what people mean when they say the Celestion 70/80 is harsh...
> Fired up the DSL40c fresh outta the crunched shipping box, and I agree, the speaker is brite. (not broken in yet?...)
> 
> Immediately swapped it for the Eminence Texas Heat in my SFPR, and it is a win-win scenario.
> The Fender LOVES the 70/80, and the DSL40c has some wicked thump to it now.
> For a semi-open back combo, it does sound pretty good now...
> ...



I'm still playing mine regularly even though I'm still planning to sell it, I'm just waiting for tax time. The more I play it the better it sounds! The speaker is definitely mellowing out and settling in. It's A LOT better than it was at first. Glad your swap worked out though, once it breaks in on the Fender you might want to try it again in the DSL. It gets much better!



Micky said:


> ...
> One thing - Swapping the speaker revealed the biggest QC problem I have ever seen. An extra back-screw washer fell outta the spider area, and the screw that went with it was in the bottom of the combo. Glad they didn't charge me extra for that...



...no loose parts rolling around in mine.


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## ibmorjamn

Micky said:


> I don't think it is an issue so much for 'taming the highs' as it is for emphasizing the lows.
> In an open back speaker cab, you immediately lose a lot of the 'thump' you would normally have in a closed back design, so I don't think there is really anything that will cut back the higher freqs.
> 
> Putting some of the low-end crunch back in will even out the response, that's why you need to look at a speaker that is designed for an open back cab.



Low end crunch is exactly the problem. Thank you.


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## Micky

ibmorjamn said:


> Low end crunch is exactly the problem. Thank you.



I am so used to playing thru a stack at home when I switch to a combo it is difficult to grasp the differences.


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## ibmorjamn

I'm going to try a Texas Heat when I can.
What about going to less aggressive pre-amp tubes 12AY7 ?


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## Micky

I like the gain exactly where it is, if I wanted more clean headroom I would try a 12AU7 first. The amp is at just the right spot for me, I don't need lower gain or lower volume. 

The subjective part of me just wants a bit lower thump and I feel the Seventy 80 just doesn't have it. But it sounds fantastic in my Fender... So I think it is just a matter of personal taste more than anything.


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## ibmorjamn

Micky said:


> I like the gain exactly where it is, if I wanted more clean headroom I would try a 12AU7 first. The amp is at just the right spot for me, I don't need lower gain or lower volume.
> 
> The subjective part of me just wants a bit lower thump and I feel the Seventy 80 just doesn't have it. But it sounds fantastic in my Fender... So I think it is just a matter of personal taste more than anything.



Most posts I have read on lead 2 are about it being to much gain. Maybe the pre-amp tube change would help that.


----------



## Micky

ibmorjamn said:


> Most posts I have read on lead 2 are about it being to much gain. Maybe the pre-amp tube change would help that.



Lifting the bright cap fixed that. I love OD2 now. I just wish there was a foot switch mod to change modes as well as channels.

I just can't justify a JVM though...


----------



## lnxguit

Hung with the Seventy 80 speaker for a month, but not liking it. Recently put in a Celestion Vintage 30 - complete change for the better.
It isn't really a matter of brightness or bass, the whole character of the tone is changed. It sounds like a real Marshall now.


----------



## Micky

lnxguit said:


> Hung with the Seventy 80 speaker for a month, but not liking it. Recently put in a Celestion Vintage 30 - complete change for the better.
> It isn't really a matter of brightness or bass, the whole character of the tone is changed. It sounds like a real Marshall now.



Surprisingly, my Fender loves the 70/80. I replaced the 70/80 in my DSL40c with an Eminence Texas Heat and like you said, it changed the character. Whole different beast now...

Be sure to get the whole scoop here:
http://www.marshallforum.com/marshall-amps/53780-official-marshall-dsl40c-information-thread.html


----------



## ucnick

FWIW after I got my 40C I did the C19 mod, which helped a lot. Replaced the power tubes with JJs, replaced V1 with a Genalex Gold Lion 12AX7 and the rest with EH 12AX7, they all helped, biggest difference was going to a Weber Legacy 12F (and with a Beam Blocker), I got the 50 oz magnet, 100W rating, light doping, 16 ohms, it opened up the sound but also smoothed it out, I was playing it in rehearsal last week and man it crunches and sings, I was loving it big time. Cleans are OK, I don't get Fender cleans, but then again, it ain't Fender, so just gotta live with it. 
The sounds, both clean and dirty, are plenty good enough for both my classic rock cover band and my ABB trib band (really shines there). 

I'll be using it for a covers band gig tomorrow night, it's kind of a small club (they use a sound level meter, for chrissakes!), so will use a Weber Mini Mass 50 attenuator to get some power tube soak at lower volumes in pentode mode, triode is a bit too spongy for me. I set the amp volume at about half to 60% and use the attenuator to dial in the level. If I need clean I turn off the attenuator and get plenty of headroom for the cleans so it doesn't distort much. Overall, it sounds really full, not harsh (unless I dime out the treble), the distortion has that Marshall SOUND, and the guys love the way it sounds. Only other amp they like as much is my Mesa Royal Atlantic 100 2X12, and it's too much of a back breaker for the small gigs on he second floor, weighs about 2X as much as the 40C. But it's great for larger places on the ground! Anyway, the 40C is gonna get used a lot this summer, the two bands are gigging a lot. I'll check in from time to time.


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## yankeefan4life72

I havent heard a celestion vintage 30 as a speaker idea yet........


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## paradox

V30 mentioned just a few post back by Inxguit. I had the same experience as Inxguit - tried to hang with the Seventy80 hoping it would loosen up and tame the highs and get more 'full'. I gave up and went with the wgs Retro 30 (one of their V30 clones) - very happy with the amp in this configuration. 
I have the same comments as inx, the amp seems to have a better character, but I do think I'm hearing an improved bottom as well.
This amp is used for garage jams and at home, but the at home tasks have recently been handed over to an SL5....


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## ibmorjamn

strathaze said:


> Hi all - it's been a couple of weeks since I was on this thread, and in that time I have had a couple of rehearsals with my band with the dsl. The first one I was all over the shop getting the channel volumes right etc. the second one I really tried to hear it and fine tune it against the other guitarist (fender twin, gain supplied by an me50). Pretty much what I have been doing is maxing the gain on the green with the button in & running the volume at about 4 & a bit. This gives me a super crunch tone at that volume, full, rich and harmonic. If I need something a tad heavier I have (don't laugh!) a behringer blues driver copy in the line. Oh and also the tone modify parameter on my me50 is set to fat. The blues driver gives a tad more gain and volume. The only complaint is the ill-defined bottom end on that channel. I just can't get a decent chug out of it. I did have a boss EQ where the blues driver was but I didn't find that entirely satisfactory either. The red channel is set up as my lead channel only (man I can't deal with the amount of gain that red channel has, I can only run the gain control on 2, max 3, much less using the lead 2 option!) with the volume an additional 30% over the green channel. This REALLY cuts through being as bright as it is. Look I reckon I am 80% there, a decent true bypass OD would help, so that's the next thing. And don't worry about 40 watts not being heard, this little mutha is LOUD.
> I await with interest more discussion about tubes, speakers etc, I would do a tube change if I could get a tight bottom end on the green channel!
> ,


100% with you on a possible tube change.


----------



## Duffy49

shades of blue said:


> Glad you still dig the DSL Steve.
> 
> I've got to say though, that even though I'm in love with my DSL, I've still got an itch for a Fender Deluxe Reverb that I just can't scratch. Mesa has a new line of pedals coming out, and if they prove to be a hit, I could be selling my entire DSL rig and downsizing to a DRRI. All I need the DSL for is metal.


 
I'm not sure if you got a DRRI, but I have a new one and it sounds a lot different from my DSL100h thru a four by twelve Epiphone cabinet with the stock Eminence Lady Luck speakers. I don't suppose the speakers are doing me any real favors. I have a one by twelve plywood Epiphone VJr cabinet that I'm going to put a different speaker in and see how I like that. I think I can get a better sound that way.

The DRRI sounds good stock. It is bright and clean, like you imagine a Fender will sound, but it has a natural slight break up when you dig in with the pick, even with single coils, but definitely with HB's. I have a set of Fat 50's Fender pickups in a strat and it sounds very good thru the DRRI. It has a "growl" to it.

It is a good amp and gets pretty loud. You can use the volume control at home and turn it down with no problem to lower volume levels. It is not like a Hot Rod Deluxe.


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## Dizzyg12

How does the v30 sound in these things?


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## Micky

The V30 sounds good in everything.
But that would be a 30W speaker in a 40W amp...


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## Jethro Rocker

I've got one of the newer V30's - 65 watts - sounds great in it! That little amp is LOUD! Nice bass response too for a 1x12.


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## DirtySteve

I sort of regret not trying a V30 in my DSL before I sold it. It might have changed everything.


...but then look at all the fun I'd have missed building an amp.


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## Georgiatec

Micky said:


> The V30 sounds good in everything.
> But that would be a 30W speaker in a 40W amp...



V30's are 60watts Micky  Methinks you refer to the G12H-30


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## Micky

I realize that, I was thinking about 25W Greenbacks...
And how a pair might sound nice in a closed back cab...
Day off from work and I am all screwed up.
Aint gotta go back till Monday. Should be off the hook by then.


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## DirtySteve

I haven't thought about this in a while. Like, a year now, lol. I can't believe this thread came back up. I was never worried about the wattage, I couldn't crank it anyway. That's partly why I sold mine. I don't need that much wattage and I wasn't digging the combo. I'd still have it if it had come in a head version.


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## Micky

I have always had mostly closed-back cabs, only a very few combos I kept for any length of time. Now that I am older, combos are certainly easier to cart around but I still want that tighter sound.

The DSL40c is a great platform, it sounds good right outta the box.
Especially if you can take the time to fiddle with the EQ.
I still haven't figured out exactly what the Presence and Resonance do...

But you can make it sound better.

Most notably the speaker can be replaced with a warmer, fuller model.
Finding one that will work well with the available EQ is easy.
I wouldn't put in a 75, that may make it worse, but mellow, smooth speakers will definitely show off the hidden talents of this beast.

I am thinking a 2X12 under the open back combo will be the best of both worlds...


----------



## Jethro Rocker

Resonance gives a big deep push of bass especially at lower volumes. They both act on the power amp section, presence is sort of a high treble control giving the sound well, presence. I like the resonance more than the deep switch as it gives more control. I get a nice tight chunk when I add a touch of resonance. I have a closed back 2x12 with a pair of V30s and boy does it cook!


----------



## tjnugent

Howdy, 

I have a DSL40C and currently have put my WGS Reaper 30 in it. It is better than the stock 70/80. I am thinking about the WGS ET65. I use the crunch channel for clean/plexi tone and don't touch the lead channel at all. I am looking for warm balanced with a beautiful clean tone and a little hair from the push button plexi side. What do you think about the ET65 for this type of thing?

Thanks, 

TJ


----------



## cruisemates

I had a friend who bought DSL 40c and took it to a gig, I was listening and I remarked to him that is sounded great except on his strat where it sounded thin. Yes, he took it back and traded it for a BlackStar which he is very happy with.

I was looking for a grab & go amp myself (I usually play a dsl100 or an EVH 5150iii on stage - so you see I like pretty heavy gain). But I went to GC and liked the DSL40C in the store (playing a PRS).

When I got it home and on my furst jam session I noticed it sounded very thin, so I opened it up. I was pretty disappointed to see what I would call a "modern" (made in china - I assume) lightweight speaker that has to be neodymium. Those are like the speakers sold in the new cheaper Marshall 2x12 cabinets (except those are even lighter weight).

I put in a Vintage 30 and I think it is the perfect fit for that amp. And I generally don;t care for V30s much (I prefer G12-75 in a single 12-inch config). I would stay away from green backs or G12-65 or any other speaker that does not have very heavy magnet and beefy lowed. These amps can sound great but you need a strong speaker. The stock (I think it is a seventy-80 or something) does not work well at all IMO. It would be okay for home bedroom situations, but that is about it.


----------



## cruisemates

tjnugent said:


> Howdy,
> 
> I have a DSL40C and currently have put my WGS Reaper 30 in it. It is better than the stock 70/80. I am thinking about the WGS ET65. I use the crunch channel for clean/plexi tone and don't touch the lead channel at all. I am looking for warm balanced with a beautiful clean tone and a little hair from the push button plexi side. What do you think about the ET65 for this type of thing?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> TJ



For the sound you are looking for I think it is a good choice. The G12-65 (and its clones) are made to supply that little bit of hair - unless you push them too hard, then you get a flabby sound - so for your moderate gain settings I think it is a good choice.


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## tjnugent

Cruise, what style music do you play? That may also have difference on your perception. I play Fender guitars and I find the DSL40c anything but thin sounding. Though I am not a metal guy.


----------



## Micky

I just put an Eminence Man-O-War 16 in my DSL40c, and I love it. Marty says the MOW is the G12-75 equivalent.

Had a Texas Heat in there and I loved that as well.


----------



## tjnugent

You would have to push an ET65 way hard to get it to flub out. I don't play at ear piercing levels, never have. I don't need to. I have in ear monitors and a great engineer.


----------



## ibmorjamn

Micky said:


> I just put an Eminence Man-O-War 16 in my DSL40c, and I love it. Marty says the MOW is the G12-75 equivalent.
> 
> Had a Texas Heat in there and I loved that as well.


Micky check this post out, it never got resolved or was forgotten :

http://www.marshallforum.com/cabinets-speakers/63051-emminence-manowar-flubbing-out.html


----------



## Micky

Hmmmm. Will have to crank it soon to see.
Hard to imagine a MOW flubbing out.

I have definitely seen it on a 10" speaker, but never on an Eminence.

I think the OP put the 70/80 back in and was done. Too bad...

I will bet the 70/80 is a GREAT speaker for a closed back cab.

I wonder if anyone here has an MX212 yet?


----------



## ibmorjamn

I don't know but once I changed out the 70/80 i wont go back


----------



## bman

In my opinion give the 70/80 that comes with it a little time to break in. Has a nice sag and big headroom. In fact I have yet to find a better sounding stock amp under $1000. Stores in my area are having trouble keeping them in stock.


----------



## ibmorjamn

They do sound good stock . Once I replaced it with the Texas Heat the tone or range of of the speaker reveals what tone is possible. I will admit I did not let the 70/80 break in but highly doubt I would except the tone of the 70/80 compared to the Texas Heat. That is just my opinion on the tone I want to hear. I bet there is even a better sounding speaker out there but for know it gets close.


----------



## Rippenflesh

Micky said:


> I just put an Eminence Man-O-War 16 in my DSL40c, and I love it. Marty says the MOW is the G12-75 equivalent.
> 
> Had a Texas Heat in there and I loved that as well.



How did the MOW work for you? I was reading up on them a couple of weeks ago and might be interested in getting one.


----------



## Micky

I haven't got a lot of time on it yet, but both the MOW as well as the Texas Heat are very bass heavy, which required me to adjust the value of C19 to a bit lower cap.

Sounded a bit muddy on the Ultra channel (both ODI & ODII) before I put the lower value cap back in.

But now - OMG! I think it is almost perfect. I wanted to play a bit today to get some different riffs thru it, but alas, it was not to be...


----------



## ibmorjamn

Micky said:


> I haven't got a lot of time on it yet, but both the MOW as well as the Texas Heat are very bass heavy, which required me to adjust the value of C19 to a bit lower cap.
> 
> Sounded a bit muddy on the Ultra channel (both ODI & ODII) before I put the lower value cap back in.
> 
> But now - OMG! I think it is almost perfect. I wanted to play a bit today to get some different riffs thru it, but alas, it was not to be...



You will get it Micky , It's a bitch when you have family and work so you are trying to juggle them all. At least for me.
I just got back from a 3 day get away yesterday and it was our 33rd anniversary. I ended up down in the garage putting the Texas Heat I got from you in the Fender Cab , then playing for about an hour. I received a evil eye for that . lol


----------



## Rippenflesh

That gives me a little bit to think about. Thanks!


----------



## ibmorjamn

Rippenflesh said:


> That gives me a little bit to think about. Thanks!


 
The first song in my sig is done with the 40c and Texas Heat , no mods to the amp. It is bone except the speaker.


----------



## Rippenflesh

ibmorjamn said:


> The first song in my sig is done with the 40c and Texas Heat , no mods to the amp. It is bone except the speaker.


 
This was helpful! Thanks!


----------



## seattleman1969

DirtySteve said:


> Yes I have, but I've been fooled by demos too many times now and I just don't trust that they'll sound the same in my amp with my setup.
> 
> I have 2 Godins. (...for now) Both guitars have the same neck, mahogany/rosewood. The one on the left is a solid maple body loaded with MHD Straitjacket Tele set, the one on the right is a mahogany body loaded with MHD Stangkfingers.
> 
> Yes I need to tame the highs and the bottom needs to be tighter. There's kind of a "honk" throughout that I want to get rid of and the mids, well thats where most of the "honk" seems to be. I'm not sure if honk is the right word, I might not be describing it right.



I can say from experience the G12M65 Creamback sounds 1000 times better in the DSL40C than the stock 70/80. However, I had to do the C19 cap mod as well to kill some of the shrill. The issue I have is the softness/flubbiness with the low end. I am considering heavily switching to the G12H75 Creamback as all demos, side by side, I have heard between the two the highs have more clarity and the low end a much tighter punchier sound while maintaining the awesome mids! My opinion based on experience with my DSL40C


----------



## J.LaGrassa

seattleman1969 said:


> I can say from experience the G12M65 Creamback sounds 1000 times better in the DSL40C than the stock 70/80. However, I had to do the C19 cap mod as well to kill some of the shrill. The issue I have is the softness/flubbiness with the low end. I am considering heavily switching to the G12H75 Creamback as all demos, side by side, I have heard between the two the highs have more clarity and the low end a much tighter punchier sound while maintaining the awesome mids! My opinion based on experience with my DSL40C



I tried both Creambacks in my DSL40 and they are very nice but they were brighter than I wanted, I have the Eminence CV-75 in the amp now and from what i have read it's based on the Vintage 30s from the 80s. 

This speaker is FAT and warm with a big low end that stays tight with its 56 oz magnet, it adds more weight to the amp but worth it.




[/IMG]


----------



## madmoe70

I'm looking to replace my seventy/80 with either a V30 or Vet 30. Can anyone make a recommendation? I play mostly metal and the seventy/80 isn't cutting it for me. Thanks.


----------



## Rahlstin

Ive been using one of these for a few shows now and other than performing the C19 snip, this amp sounds amazing with the stock speaker. Especially through a big PA. It really really likes a good LesPaul.


----------



## ibmorjamn

Yet another speaker I would like is the limited edition G1235XC but it is 35w 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1aBEKUYSg8[/ame]


----------



## chris osborne

I've been considering a speaker swap in my dsl40 and I've been leaning towards the delta pro 12a. It seems like it should tame the highs fairly well and also have a super tight low end as well. How do you guys think this speaker will fare in the dsl40? I imagine the amp should be able to push it.?.?

Chris


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## Igtar_Pro

Hi guys, i want to change the (horrible) seventy 80 speaker by a celestion Vintage 30, but I don´t know if put one of 16 ohm (in the 16 ohm output) or two of 8 ohms, adding an extra box (using both 8 ohms outputs). Is there a big sound difference?

Thanks


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## stringer

Heres one option..I really like 
My plexi deluxe pedal wampler..
I one use it in the green channel..
I mainly wanted clean tube amp...and use 
A pedal for dirt and grit...about the same price as swapping spreakers/ tubes ..


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## Robert Herndon Project

DirtySteve said:


> Ugh...my head is spinning now! I wish there was a way a guy could try them all and then decide.



I totally understand that feeling....I'm not liking my 70/80. Its too "harsh" to me. Trevor English at WGS recommended the ET90.


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## JBA

Try THIS before you mod your amp because it is too bright!

Start by setting your amp tone controls at 12, then slowly roll back the tone control on your guitar (and even try rolling back your guitar volume) until the highs are balanced and you like your amp's sound.... then tweek the amp tone stack a bit. Warning... This will probably not save you money as you will likely spend it on some other new shinny toy.

Happy 150'th to all the Northerners out there!


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## BanditPanda

Robert Herndon Project said:


> I totally understand that feeling....I'm not liking my 70/80. Its too "harsh" to me. Trevor English at WGS recommended the ET90.



And quite a few users on here of the WGS ET65. I be one of 'em.
BP


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## BanditPanda

Igtar_Pro said:


> Hi guys, i want to change the (horrible) seventy 80 speaker by a celestion Vintage 30, but I don´t know if put one of 16 ohm (in the 16 ohm output) or two of 8 ohms, adding an extra box (using both 8 ohms outputs). Is there a big sound difference?
> 
> Thanks


If you're using one 16 ohm then you use the 16 ohm input.
If you use 2 x 16 ohm then you use the 2 x 8 ohm input.
Yes there is a big sound difference when using 2 i/o 1


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## BanditPanda

chris osborne said:


> I've been considering a speaker swap in my dsl40 and I've been leaning towards the delta pro 12a. It seems like it should tame the highs fairly well and also have a super tight low end as well. How do you guys think this speaker will fare in the dsl40? I imagine the amp should be able to push it.?.?
> 
> Chris



No! First of all:
Recommended for professional audio in vented and sealed enclosures.
Second of all : Why would you put an 800 Watt capacity speaker in a 40 Watt amp cab?
Third of all:Why would you put a speaker that weighs over 16 pounds in an already very heavy amp?
Fourth of all : It is described as :12" (304.8mm) Mid-Bass Driver. Why would you do that to a Marshall? It's like the opposite of what a Marshall is all about
Just my 2$ worth.lol
BP


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## JBA

BanditPanda said:


> No! First of all:
> Recommended for professional audio in vented and sealed enclosures.
> Second of all : Why would you put an 800 Watt capacity speaker in a 40 Watt amp cab?
> Third of all:Why would you put a speaker that weighs over 16 pounds in an already very heavy amp?
> Fourth of all : It is described as :12" (304.8mm) Mid-Bass Driver. Why would you do that to a Marshall? It's like the opposite of what a Marshall is all about
> Just my 2$ worth.lol
> BP


....Fifth of all : these speakers have a flat response (as far as guitar speakers go) and do sound very steril.

Curves in the frequency response (box design included) give the fundamental tonal balance or signature /character most of us chase after. A smooth response (minimized jagged step changes) is the key; this makes sounds pleasing to our brains. I'll neglect phase response and resonant modes cause I'm already headed down the rabbit hole.

The point is..
Adjust guitar tone first, then the amp tone stack, then try different cabinet types (sealed, open back, partial, and ported) then chase speakers and pre and post parametric eq's then if your sick like me (sorry guys like me, we are sick) design your own enclosures and run endless frequency sweeps with sound measuring equipment and anylisis software. Now, had I put that kind of energy and time into practicing I'd be a much better guitar player.


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## Crab

Something new to consider for the DSL40. Avatar Hellatone 50 ceramic, I have a 2x12 loaded with Hellatone 60's (v30's) and they are the best V30's I ever heard, This 50w is a new speaker design from Avatar, Greenback/G12h30 mix and it sounds fantastic clean or dirty. To me it's the perfect speaker for the DSL40. My DSL40H w/Avatar Hellatone 50c


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## ledvedder

Crab said:


> Something new to consider for the DSL40. Avatar Hellatone 50 ceramic, I have a 2x12 loaded with Hellatone 60's (v30's) and they are the best V30's I ever heard, This 50w is a new speaker design from Avatar, Greenback/G12h30 mix and it sounds fantastic clean or dirty. To me it's the perfect speaker for the DSL40. My DSL40H w/Avatar Hellatone 50c



That looks sweet! Where did you get that head cab? Do you have any heat issues?


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## BanditPanda

Crab said:


> Something new to consider for the DSL40. Avatar Hellatone 50 ceramic, I have a 2x12 loaded with Hellatone 60's (v30's) and they are the best V30's I ever heard, This 50w is a new speaker design from Avatar, Greenback/G12h30 mix and it sounds fantastic clean or dirty. To me it's the perfect speaker for the DSL40. My DSL40H w/Avatar Hellatone 50c




That's the original cab from the DSL40CV from which you have removed the amp right?


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## BanditPanda

ledvedder said:


> That looks sweet! Where did you get that head cab? Do you have any heat issues?



Vedder, can't answer on Crab's behalf but attached you can see the back of my DSL40H . As you can see plenty of air.
BP


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## ledvedder

BanditPanda said:


> Vedder, can't answer on Crab's behalf but attached you can see the back of my DSL40H . As you can see plenty of air.
> BP



Nice! Where did you get your head cab?


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## BanditPanda

ledvedder said:


> Nice! Where did you get your head cab?



It is actually the real head cab of the DSL40CV
Asked my guitar tech to cut it from the cab in tact.
Took out the metal grill etc., etc., and glued the bottom back on.
Now he's building me the two 1 x 12'' cabs


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## AlanH

Does anybody have a Celestion Vintage 30 in their DSL40C? How do you like it? A tight bottom end, fat mids and a smooth harmonically rich top end sound ideal for somebody like me who plays classic blues rock, metal and thrash.


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## Crab

AlanH said:


> Does anybody have a Celestion Vintage 30 in their DSL40C? How do you like it? A tight bottom end, fat mids and a smooth harmonically rich top end sound ideal for somebody like me who plays classic blues rock, metal and thrash.


After testing many Celestions in a DSL40. V30's and G12h30 Heritage were best in tone. My head cab is a modified DSL40c


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## Crab

BanditPanda said:


> Vedder, can't answer on Crab's behalf but attached you can see the back of my DSL40H . As you can see plenty of air.
> BP


Mine looks the same


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## Angus Rhoads

AlanH said:


> Does anybody have a Celestion Vintage 30 in their DSL40C? How do you like it? A tight bottom end, fat mids and a smooth harmonically rich top end sound ideal for somebody like me who plays classic blues rock, metal and thrash.


Yep, had a V30 (Marshall-labelled "Vintage") in my 40C for a long time, one of the best I've tried in that combo, perfect for 80s metal! But, I have to admit, I'm really loving the Marshall "Heritage" (G12-65) in it right now. It's actually pretty similar to a V30 but just a little bit less in-your-face, like a V30 on 7.5 instead of on 10. It can still do 80s metal, maybe not quite as well as the V30, but it's better for AC/DC, Zep, Skynyrd, etc. tones.


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## GuitarJoeSI

hey everyone! I just ordered the DSL40C yesterday and will probably be receiving it next week some time. I tried it in the store and loved it and I haven’t read a bad review yet. This is not only my first Marshall, but also first tube amp. I noticed a lot of people change out the speaker of this amp, is it any good? Also, if I wanted to do that, what is the criteria for getting the proper speaker?


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## Butch Danger

I have no problem with the stock speaker at semi loud volumes. But if it unplug it, and go into my orange 212cb with british made v-30s it sounds mucho fatter


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