# When did B.C. Rich turn to shite?



## Goes211

Am I wrong or were B.C. Rich guitars at one time considered some of the best instruments you could buy? Growing up in the 80s, they were over $1,000 when that amount of money was really a lot for a guitar. I used to drool over the Mockingbirds, Ironbirds, Eagles and Warlocks hanging in the guitar stores. A lot of the big name players used them back then.

No you can buy a BC Rich on CL for $80, and they seem to be associated with beginners. What happened?


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## SonVolt

The name "B.C. Rich" ruined it for me.... it always sounded like a cheap pawn shop brand. It even sounds worse than "Peavey" and that's saying a lot.


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## duncan11

I personally never liked the way they looked. Too sharp edges. I played a few at stores just to check out in the late 80's/90's but never was sold on them. I kinda viewed them as the 'brand name of off brand' guitars. Like Kramer. I don't get the popularity of Dean guitars either. I've always thought that brand was shite, and still do. For the metal cravings I may have had to own a 'shredder' type guitar, I'd go for a Jackson.


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## Goes211

SonVolt said:


> The name "B.C. Rich" ruined it for me.... it always sounded like a cheap pawn shop brand. It even sounds worse than "Peavey" and that's saying a lot.



How old are you? I was thinking that the name and its association with 80s metal/glam/hard rock probably taints the brand to younger guys who didn't come up in the 80s.

To me, B.C. Rich always sounded top-notch, because the big rock stars played them. It was like Mercedes or BMW. But I was a kid and knew very little, so there's that...


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## SonVolt

Goes211 said:


> How old are you? I was thinking that the name and its association with 80s metal/glam/hard rock probably taints the brand to younger guys who didn't come up in the 80s.
> 
> To me, B.C. Rich always sounded top-notch, because the big rock stars played them. It was like Mercedes or BMW. But I was a kid and knew very little, so there's that...




34. The only brands anyone gave a shit about in my generation were Gibson and Fender. All pointy guitars were silly nonsense at the time. Even now, in 2013 this looks fucking stupid, tantamount to driving a truck with an 8 foot suspension life.


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## Goes211

SonVolt said:


> 34. The only brands anyone gave a shit about in my generation were Gibson and Fender. All pointy guitars were silly nonsense at the time.



Exactly. That's what I thought. Each generation has their "thing". I worked at a guitar store in the early and mid 90s and every new guitar player wore a big bulky sweater in the middle of summer and wanted to play a Fender Jaguar or Mustang. You couldn't sell Ibanez, Charvel, Jackson, etc. for cost.


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## Goes211

I also agree that the Warlock and the pointy guitars look silly, and I have no desire to own one. The odd thing to me is that they went from high quality to starter guitars. And they must sell a ton of them because they are all over the place. I can understand the popularity taking a dip as public opinion changes, but if they lost popularity how are they selling so many?


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## poeman33

I've never owned one...but from the first time I heard of the brand and saw the guitars, I have never thought of them as a high end brand. To be honest, I have no idea where there were made when I first saw them in the early 80's. They just felt cheap.

The first Kramers on the other hand...felt like very high quality instruments. That is one brand that has completely changed.


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## SonVolt

Goes211 said:


> Exactly. That's what I thought. Each generation has their "thing". I worked at a guitar store in the early and mid 90s and every new guitar player wore a big bulky sweater in the middle of summer and wanted to play a Fender Jaguar or Mustang. You couldn't sell Ibanez, Charvel, Jackson, etc. for cost.




Everyone likes to play what their idols play... but it's not like that anymore. Everything is niche now so there's plenty of room for Ibanez, Jackson, Gibson and Fenders to play along nicely. B.C Rich is still gay though


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## Goes211

poeman33 said:


> I've never owned one...but from the first time I heard of the brand and saw the guitars, I have never thought of them as a high end brand. To be honest, I have no idea where there were made when I first saw them in the early 80's. They just felt cheap.
> 
> The first Kramers on the other hand...felt like very high quality instruments. That is one brand that has completely changed.



I always liked the big 'R' on the headstock. I think when they started to use the "signature" BC Rich logo, they looked cheap.


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## CaptainZero

SonVolt said:


> 34. The only brands anyone gave a shit about in my generation were Gibson and Fender. All pointy guitars were silly nonsense at the time. Even now, in 2013 this looks fucking stupid, tantamount to driving a truck with an 8 foot suspension life.



It does look like it could open a bottle with the headstock though.


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## iron broadsword

I paid $500 for a platinum warlock in 2000.. I was 19 and was into metal so yeah it looked neat... HORRIBLE guitar. Horrible tuning stability. Who puts a non-locking floyd rose style tremolo on a guitar?! Looked great though with the blue finish and chrome hardware, lol. I sold it to a pawn shop a few years ago and they are still trying to get rid of it.  

Hate the new headstocks too.. Adding horns doesn't make it better.


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## crossroadsnyc

SonVolt said:


> 34. The only brands anyone gave a shit about in my generation were Gibson and Fender. All pointy guitars were silly nonsense at the time. Even now, in 2013 this looks fucking stupid, tantamount to driving a truck with an 8 foot suspension life.



I need one of those for fighting zombies!


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## blackone

In the 70's & early 80's the handmade ones were outstanding. The original shapes either you loved or hated, I love them, but they just went to wierd with things like the beast, and that horrible widow headstock. The new neckthroughs are amazing bang for the buck. I would recommend anyone to play an original if you get the chance, you can't believe how good they were.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

Sometime in 2001.


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## Dogs of Doom

Back in the '80s, most brands figured out if they made a cheap beginner model, they could sell many more guitars. I remember when the trend started & a Fender rep told me the reasoning was that 90% of sales were due to a teenager wanting to start playing guitar. That would put the purchase under mommy's duties.

What do you think mommy would do if the cheapest guitar was $1000+? Especially thinking that Jr will probably lose interest in a few months. Probably not buy a guitar, but convince the kid he wants a clarinet. So, they settled on a price point & that was under $200 ($199), which meant that Fender would now outsource to Japan to mass produce guitars, so they could still meet that price point & make a profit. This was the beginning of the Squire MIJ series. They have revamped this by outsourcing in lower cost countries & trying to make a middle ground MIM series.

Other companies had to follow suit.

When I was playing bass in the '80s, I traded an Ibanez Artist Sunburst for a B.C. Rich Warlock bass. At that time, they had just started making Japanese versions, but, the one I had was a US model.

I hated that thing. It seemed to have a longer scale than the modern ones & didn't have the horned headstock. Seemed the cuts were not rounded on the butt either. What did I hate about it? You could not let go of it, or the headstock would fall - slamming to the ground. Sound wise, it lacked any top end. The bass frequency was robust, but sounded muffled compared to my other basses...

But, yes, in the '80s, everybody was competing to get the mommy purchase. You must remember, that if it weren't for all these cheap beginner models, the companies would not be able to afford to R&D & Mfgr on the high end models that we all drool after.

You must consider that some of these "cheap" models of back then many are considering them good enough to be their main guitar today. Gibson buying out Epiphone was their entry into that market & you'll see many people proudly playing "high end" Epiphones today.

The trend has gotten to make them cheaper & cheaper & offer as many price points as possible. It kinda muddies up things, if you aren't careful, especially when buying on the used market. People rely on that to try & get more than they paid at Guitar Center for a $100 Affinity Strat. You'll see them all year on Craig's List selling for around $100 to even someone trying to sell them for $300...

I'm not up on what the Japanese luthiers did to come out w/ econo models though...


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## Goes211

blackone said:


> In the 70's & early 80's the handmade ones were outstanding. The original shapes either you loved or hated, I love them, but they just went to wierd with things like the beast, and that horrible widow headstock. The new neckthroughs are amazing bang for the buck. I would recommend anyone to play an original if you get the chance, you can't believe how good they were.



Yes. This is what I'm saying. They were VERY nice at one point.


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## Marival

My very first higher-end guitar was an NJ Deluxe Warlock model.






I still have it and it's still one of my favourites. Whenever I pick it up it's like shaking hands with an old friend.

In terms of BC Rich as a company I agree that their offers nowadays are rather unappealing. They do offer very well-built neck-through models though. But when you walk into music stores and see the BC Rich models on offer it's mostly the ugly-ass bronze series or some other bottom of the spectrum models.

Their release for this year (so far) is a series of ugly looking 7/8 string Gunslinger models that are just terrible in my opinion. The 8-string model has a scale length of 26,5 for crying out loud.


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## Grunch

Goes211 said:


> Am I wrong or were B.C. Rich guitars at one time considered some of the best instruments you could buy?



Yes, you are wrong.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

Marival said:


> Their release for this year (so far) is a series of ugly looking 7/8 string Gunslinger models that are just terrible in my opinion. The 8-string model has a scale length of 26,5 for crying out loud.



I could of sworn they were 27'' like the 7-string.

But yeah, those new 7 and 8's were so goddamn bland... 

And besides those and the new Pro X series, they were almost absent from NAMM.


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## AlvisX

My generation kicked your generation's ASS

We had this band called Aerosmith.......they played BC Richs
The ROCKED hard!

http://www.celebrityrockstarguitars.com/rock/perry_files/joeperry.jpg


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## Mosher Zone

They still make great guitars, the US ones are top quality & they still make great models overseas too. I have 2004 neck-thru Mockingbird & with a few tweaks it is one of my faves. Every company made cheap crap in the 80s/90s, Fender had plywood Squier's as much as Bc Rich had theirs.


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## LEOVAN83

Goes211 said:


> Am I wrong or were B.C. Rich guitars at one time considered some of the best instruments you could buy? Growing up in the 80s, they were over $1,000 when that amount of money was really a lot for a guitar. I used to drool over the Mockingbirds, Ironbirds, Eagles and Warlocks hanging in the guitar stores. A lot of the big name players used them back then.
> 
> No you can buy a BC Rich on CL for $80, and they seem to be associated with beginners. What happened?



Some years ago BC Rich made it clear that they started making their guitars abroad, and they separated the company in two basic sides: "BC Rich" and "BC Rich Handmade".

The first one refers to ALL the export models, even when you log into their website, the MAIN website refers ONLY to the cheap export versions. You have to click on a specific tab to go to the BC Rich Handmade part. Most handmade BC's are custom made, they don't really have a "stock" full of the good stuff, you can find them in their dealers, but most of them are custom ordered by the customer.

The Handmades are what you will compare to the 70's and 80's BC Rich guitars, made in the USA and considered to be very high quality. I think the cheapest BC Rich (USA) model you can buy brand new these days is the Gunslinger, which is a superstrat style guitar, and costs 2,599 dollars. Most of their other models, including Mockingbirds, Warlocks, Ironbirds, Bich's, etc start at about 4 grand. They make them all the time, the brand didn't really stop. Bernie Rico died and apparently his son took over (BR Junior), and he also has his own separate company called Bernie Rico Jr. Guitars (known for the "Vixen" model). I bought 2 custom made guitars from him, customized to my liking and I paid about 10 grand for both.

They also have build "levels" going from Standard, Deluxe and Supreme, in relation to the amount of stuff it has.

Here's an example of a true BC Rich, a Mockingbird Supreme, they usually have the big R logo instead of the script logo (the Gunslinger does though), use nice maple tops, NTB designs, ebony board, cloud inlays, active electronics, etc.


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## Dmann

It's like every other mass produced guitar company.

LOL at some of the comments here, obviously people base opinions on looks, but to call it a beginner guitar because you don't like the headstock or "pointy ends" ???? or becuase you can buy one for under $1000.00 LOL.

I actually like the widow headstock. I also like the fact that because they are not as big of a name as Gibson, Fender, or ESP, they can offer the same factory quality but at 1/2 the price.

Maybe I just got lucky and got that 1 out of 10 that came off the line perfect, but my $600.00 buget Jr V Deluxe plays as well as my $2000.00 ESP M-II.


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## jwebb1970

As to the OP's question, I assume BC Rich "went to shite" sometime after they became a subsidiary of the Hanser Music Group (which also distributes Kustom, Spector & Premier). Bernie Rico died in 1999 & no member of the Rico family is currently involved with BC Rich as it stands as a Hanser member. 

Here's a Premiere Guitar article on the history of BC Rich that you all may find interesting...

B.C. Rich Beginnings - Premier Guitar

While not the point of the linked article, I had to post this bit:



> The wild shapes of B.C. Rich guitars also attracted the attention of the producers of This Is Spinal Tap. Stich put some guitars together for the production, and in so doing, unwittingly became responsible for adding a new phrase to popular music’s cultural lexicon. “There was a meeting in my office to loan the guitars and basses. I was playing with a volume knob Larry DiMarzio gave me that went to 11. I showed it to them and explained why it went to 11.” The producers used it in one of the movie’s classic scenes, and the idiom soon became immortalized in the vernacular of guitarists and rock fans the world over.


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## Dogs of Doom

jwebb1970 said:


> Here's a Premiere Guitar article on the history of BC Rich that you all may find interesting...
> 
> B.C. Rich Beginnings - Premier Guitar


The article seems to coincide w/ what I wrote, but has a more personal story from the inside:



> *The Changing of the Guard*
> In the mid 1980s, B.C. Rich saw major changes that would send the company in a new direction. Stich left in ’84 and Moser left in ’85. In ’87, Bernie entered into a marketing agreement with Randy Waltuch’s Class Axe, allowing them to market and distribute Rave, Platinum, and NJ Series guitars. A year later, Bernie licensed the Rave and Platinum names to Class Axe, which essentially took over importing, marketing, and distribution of the foreign-made lines. Soon after, complete control was turned over to Class Axe and B.C. Rich’s custom shop was disbanded. Class Axe licensed the name B.C. Rich in 1989.
> 
> During this period, quality control nosedived and the B.C. Rich name suffered. Bernie was out of the company picture for a few years, and during that time he produced Mason Bernard guitars— handmade acoustic-electrics and Strat-shaped electrics. In 1993, Bernie regained ownership of B.C. Rich and made a concerted effort to restore the company’s name. Sadly, on December 3, 1999, he passed away from a sudden heart attack. Subsequently, the company went to his son Bernie Jr., who turned over control to the Hanser Music Group in 2001 and began making guitars under the Rico Jr. name. However, he is involved with some current B.C. Rich custom-shop guitars.
> 
> As part of its recently revamped custom operation, B.C. Rich also brought famed builder Grover Jackson aboard to work on the Gunslinger Handcrafted series. The company continues to evolve and release visually striking designs that, like its legacy designs, appeal to both younger metal players and elder statesman of the genre like Slayer’s Kerry King. Its Pro X Bich model was voted Best of NAMM in the electric guitar category at NAMM 2011.


An interesting thing to note, is that similar things happened across the board & many people thought that Gibson, Fender, etc. all went to shit during that same period...
​


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## jwebb1970

Dogs of Doom said:


> An interesting thing to note, is that similar things happened across the board & many people thought that Gibson, Fender, etc. all went to shit during that same period...
> ​


 I imagine this may coincide with the more open relationship various US companies had with several Asian based manufacturers had around that time, primarily China. This coupled with the apparent need for major US makers to provide cheap instruments for kids/beginners & the profit margins such things can command.


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## LEOVAN83

Just like every big manufacturer, they eventually get bought or partnered in an even bigger corporation, like CBS did with Fender and Fender then did with Jackson, and so on.

Here's the thing, as much as I like smaller companies building high quality guitars, like I experienced with the Bernie Rico Jr. Vixens I bought, the problem is that if you ever decide to sell them, usually, the resale value is very low, and this happened to me. I sold both my Vixens after about 1.5 years and had to sell them for 6 grand, and I paid 10 grand.

I think ESP is one of the few that keeps a balance between "small" and "big". Gibson does whatever they want since people buy them, using cheaper parts, lower QC, less quality cases, accesories, richlite and granadillo fretboards, etc... I dunno about Fender since I don't own one but I guess, like Gibson, they know people will buy their stuff, I mean, ask any kid about how an electric guitar looks like, and he'll point a Les Paul or a Strat.

Bernie Rico Jr is not an active part of BC Rich, but he's done (and does) work for them, builds and signs guitars from time to time.


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## diesect20022000

when Moser left. like Jackson and Wayne Charvel parting ways. there's still good to be had if you dig through the proverbial "hay stack".


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## drgordonfreeman

Grunch said:


> Yes, you are wrong.



Boy, Grunch doesn't pull any punches, does he? 



I've never been a fan of B.C. Rich. It seems all the "thrasher" bands were playing them in the mid 80's. Now, you can't give them away on Craigslist.

I will say, however, that I always have liked the Mockingbird. I've never owned one, but it seems pretty solid.


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## Marshall Mann

AlvisX said:


> My generation kicked your generation's ASS
> 
> We had this band called Aerosmith.......they played BC Richs
> The ROCKED hard!
> 
> http://www.celebrityrockstarguitars.com/rock/perry_files/joeperry.jpg



This. ^






BC Rich has gone though several changes, many of then since Bernie Rico died. Unfortunately not all of those changes were good. You can still buy a hand made US BC Rich, but you'll need your Visa gold.

B C Rich USA Handcrafted Bich Deluxe Electric Guitar Transparent Purple Burst | eBay

I own an import Perfect 10 Bich (because as a kid I saw Joe Perry and Dave Mustiane play them and I always wanted one) and it's one of the best crafted guitars I own. And at $700 it is as good or better build quality than some of the US guitars I own (Gibson, Jackson, Martin etc). There's not a flaw on it.


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## blackone

Marshall Mann said:


> This. ^
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BC Rich has gone though several changes, many of then since Bernie Rico died. Unfortunately not all of those changes were good. You can still buy a hand made US BC Rich, but you'll need your Visa gold.
> 
> B C Rich USA Handcrafted Bich Deluxe Electric Guitar Transparent Purple Burst | eBay
> 
> I own an import Perfect 10 Bich (because as a kid I saw Joe Perry and Dave Mustiane play them and I always wanted one) and it's one of the best crafted guitars I own. And at $700 it is as good or better build quality than some of the US guitars I own (Gibson, Jackson, Martin etc). There's not a flaw on it.




And the truth is spoken!!!! It's really quite amazing how good they are, fit and finish is imho leaps and bounds ahead of fender or gibson, and I own plenty of those. I USA'd an nj mock, I'll post some pics later tonight, gave it the relic treatment, and I doubt I'd part with it. It's so good in fact that I just laugh every time I pick it up


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## Mosher Zone

drgordonfreeman said:


> I've never been a fan of B.C. Rich. It seems all the "thrasher" bands were playing them in the mid 80's. Now, you can't give them away on Craigslist.


 They can give them to me then.


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## Stringjunkie

I like to play my friends mockingbird sometimes, the neck is so sweet on it


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## Goes211

Grunch said:


> Yes, you are wrong.



Crab.


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## AlvisX

How many of you (NOW) old bastards remember in 1979-80 they had the _name this guitar_ contest in the guitar magazines...??

I must have sent in a dozen entries...I didnt think Son Of A Rich was so great , but somebody won on that ...


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## Goes211

SonVolt said:


> err, Aerosmith? Are you talking about that band in the 90's that hired a bunch of pop song writers to write all their songs for them? All those "hits" that sounded exactly the same? Craaaaaazy! Cryyyyyying! [INSERT WORD HERE] for you BAAAAAABY!!! Cool band bro.



If the 90s are all you know of Aerosmith, you need to do a little research. There's a lot of great material available on those old Aerosmith albums.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

Goes211 said:


> If the 90s are all you know of Aerosmith, you need to do a little research. There's a lot of great material available on those old Aerosmith albums.





[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQCv80Ac3ls]Aerosmith - Kings And Queens - YouTube[/ame]


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## SonVolt

Goes211 said:


> If the 90s are all you know of Aerosmith, you need to do a little research. There's a lot of great material available on those old Aerosmith albums.




I know, I'm just giving him a hard time. It's a shame they ran out of creativity and turned to complete shit though.


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## Goes211

SonVolt said:


> I know, I'm just giving him a hard time. It's a shame they ran out of creativity and turned to complete shit though.




This is true. The worst thing that happened to Aerosmith (for fans, anyway) was they stumbled upon a formula to write hits. LOL


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## Dogs of Doom

SonVolt said:


> I know, I'm just giving him a hard time. It's a shame they ran out of creativity and turned to complete shit though.


IDK if you can say that they lost creativity. I agree, Desmond Child really made for a sucky collaboration, but it was the way the industry was going at the time. It really didn't matter who you were, if you didn't comply w/ the industry & use their writers, you didn't get a deal (backing).

At that time, the band I was in had been through the process of negotiation w/ a major A&R guy & it all fell apart when they wanted to take all the writing away from us. It came down to they wanted to write all the music, dress us a certain way, tell us how to talk, walk, when to eat, shit, piss, etc.

We were a 100% original band & they originally wanted us for that, but as time went on, the industry was changing. They didn't want anyone writing & performing their own songs & even a band like Aerosmith was not exempt from that.

That's also how we ended up w/ all the lip-syncing acts like Britney Spears, Nsync, Backdoor Boys, etc., etc. All this American Idol shit. This is why the industry had such an upheaval & is pretty much irrelevant anymore. Who gets signed to Atlantic, WB, Geffen anymore?


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

Goes211 said:


> This is true. The worst thing that happened to Aerosmith (for fans, anyway) was they stumbled upon a formula for outside people to write hits. LOL



Fixed.


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## SonVolt

Dogs of Doom said:


> It really didn't matter who you were, if you didn't comply w/ the industry & use their writers, you didn't get a deal (backing).




Huh? I think I remember a few bands from that time period that didn't have writers and had very very lucrative deals.


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## Dogs of Doom

That's because they had contracts locked in already.

One thing to also consider is the Seattle/Grunge trend. The industry got infatuated w/ that around that time, so some of the "rules" got bypassed for a piece of the action...

But Aerosmith was not a Seattle/Grunge band & were getting pretty old (by marketable pop/rock standards).


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## AlvisX

Desmond Child ....had to be Steven's idea .....I bet Steven and Paul Stanley would get along well,shoppin for curtains ...

Anyhoo, I was doing an interview for a MS State journalism student about 7 or 8 years ago. She _axed_ me who some of my influences were ....
I told her ,Aerosmith,for one ....but I made things clear with , Your father's Aerosmith ..!
She replied ,"I love my father's Aerosmith !"
Gave me some hope for that generation .....

I bet they got some BC bonus endorsement points for this ......


*F*uture *V*illian* B*and !!

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTxuv0w8LnY"]Aerosmith - Come Together {SGT Pepper's Cover Beatles 1978} - YouTube[/ame]

BTW , did y'all see the Steven Tyler / Oprah special ....?


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## Goes211

AlvisX said:


> Desmond Child ....had to be Steven's idea .....I bet Steven and Paul Stanley would get along well,shoppin for curtains ...





Problem is KISS never got that big hit, even with Desmond. They had "I Was Made for Loving You" and some others, but nothing came close to the success of those 90s Aerosmith tunes.


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## AlvisX

Goes211 said:


> Problem is KISS never got that big hit, even with Desmond. They had "I Was Made for Loving You" and some others, but nothing came close to the success of those 90s Aerosmith tunes.



That's because KISS were ahead of the .........curve when they did Desmond 

A friend of mine got pulled into a Desmond Child project about 15 years ago ,like a prefab modern rock band of handsome young men ....turns out Desmond was just trying to use the project to expand his young guy "dating pool"


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## ibmorjamn

LEOVAN83 said:


> Some years ago BC Rich made it clear that they started making their guitars abroad, and they separated the company in two basic sides: "BC Rich" and "BC Rich Handmade".
> 
> The first one refers to ALL the export models, even when you log into their website, the MAIN website refers ONLY to the cheap export versions. You have to click on a specific tab to go to the BC Rich Handmade part. Most handmade BC's are custom made, they don't really have a "stock" full of the good stuff, you can find them in their dealers, but most of them are custom ordered by the customer.
> 
> The Handmades are what you will compare to the 70's and 80's BC Rich guitars, made in the USA and considered to be very high quality. I think the cheapest BC Rich (USA) model you can buy brand new these days is the Gunslinger, which is a superstrat style guitar, and costs 2,599 dollars. Most of their other models, including Mockingbirds, Warlocks, Ironbirds, Bich's, etc start at about 4 grand. They make them all the time, the brand didn't really stop. Bernie Rico died and apparently his son took over (BR Junior), and he also has his own separate company called Bernie Rico Jr. Guitars (known for the "Vixen" model). I bought 2 custom made guitars from him, customized to my liking and I paid about 10 grand for both.
> 
> They also have build "levels" going from Standard, Deluxe and Supreme, in relation to the amount of stuff it has.
> 
> Here's an example of a true BC Rich, a Mockingbird Supreme, they usually have the big R logo instead of the script logo (the Gunslinger does though), use nice maple tops, NTB designs, ebony board, cloud inlays, active electronics, etc.


I was going to post the exact same guitar. I sort of agree about some of the pointy guitar stuff but the Mockingbird Korina with through neck and cloud inlays is sweet.
The Deans are not all cheap guitars either. In fact they endorse some of the best rock guitar legends right now.

I don't think Gibson and Fender are the only good guitars. I think they are classic but I have had my hands on a few new Gibsons that I would not even consider owning. Not much of Fender fan all though I could be if I found one I liked .
it is funny that this comes up now that 90% of all guitars and amps are imports. Not all imports are bad. I remember a guy who had a Korina ibanez "V" and it was near identical to a Gibson of course it was the law suite era MIJ.
My new Dean is a import and it is not perfect but I would not consider it a beginner guitar all though pros would likely buy the $3000 American made ones.
Mustaine Zero :


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

On topic, I've heard good things about the $500+ BC Rich import models. I was considering getting a Mock and a JRV, but my wants shifted back to ESP/LTD. Still lust for the Bich 10-string though.


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## Georgiatec

They used to be hand made in the USA and were supposed to be as good as anything else out there....still looked like musical Klingon Battle Cruisers though. Production shifted to the far east mid 80's after the US firm either went bump or sold the brand...maybe both. Pokemon guitars.


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## Job_rohns

I used to play an NJ series V, and to be fair I've played more expensive instruments that were a lot worse. The finish was nice, the stock pups were gash but once they were swapped out the thing could skin a cat at 20 paces. 

The only problem for me was that when you factored in the head and the length of the V body it was massive, which meant everytime you let someone else play it they'd ding it on a wall or knock someones beer over everytime they turned around.


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## Billyblades

Bc rich bolt ons always been crap in.my book.
Some might not like the looks but some do. Growing up.i loved them but now they seem a lil too Halloween for my taste.

I did see a dragonsblood red mockingbird in GuitarCenter that really wanted to come home with me but i was there for a Les Paul.


Next guitar could be that BCRich tho.

The neck thru models are really nice! Always have been.


----------



## Quasar-Kid

This song is recorded on a BC Rich Mocking bird 
Alice Cooper / Cold Ethyl / through a JMP I think 
(whatever it was it was a four hole Marshall) saw it with my own eyes...


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmhwV-Cxceo]Alice Cooper - Cold Ethyl (Studio Version) - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## thunderkyss

I guess I'm an old guy as well. I'll be turning 41 this June, my formative years were the late '80s, early '90s & BC Rich's heyday had already come & gone. But I've always liked the music of the 70s.... Santana, Journey, Skynyrd, Ozzy, ZZ Top. 

None of those guys, or any of my heroes for that matter were heavy into BC Rich. But I was. Ever since I first saw a Mockingbird, I fell in love. However, I was into Guns & Roses, Megadeth, Dokken, Lynch, etc... when I started playing & buying gear. 

I've got & had several Les Pauls, Strats, Flying Vs, & Teles. All in my closet right now. I finally bought my first Mocking bird about 7 years ago & I found *my* guitar. It's a 1978 USA Handmade in Dragon's Blood. Since then I bought a Korean Made Special Goldtop. Excellent guitar, I've had it for 3 years now, not the first problem. Last year, my wife bought me a satin black Mockingbird Pro X, & I love that guitar. Wish I could be like everybody else, but I gotta be me. Couldn't care less what everyone else thinks a "good" guitar should be. I've been playing enough to know what I like. 






Here's one with my HCS Les Paul (1998) I don't have pictures of my Goldtop or my Fenders & I gotta get my Flying V back from my brother. 





My dream guitar........ one day, I'll have one made just for me. 





Hopefully "most" people will still apply their preconcieved notions about what makes a "good" guitar & I won't have to mortgage the house to get it.


----------



## tresmarshallz

cant speak for other models but the 2010 Made in China Mockingbird special I got was atrocious for any guitar, much less one that sells in the over $500 range.
Too many things to list, but here are some, not things a simple setup will fix:
-6 or more high spots on frets=serious buzzing
-sharp fret edges
-bridge radius different than neck radius=non-uniform action
-internal wiring was a mess, real long wires where not needed=lots of hum

once these types of things are corrected you can begin to set it up as normal and assess what type of guitar it is, seems solid enough on design/construction.
I can live with it, like the neck

Possibly scarred for life on buying MIC guitars though


----------



## SwampThing

A lot of corksniffery going on... I think BC Rich is fine for what it does at this point Makes a MEAN Death/Thrash guitar. So what you don't like pointy guitars? I HATE Telecasters and I can barely stand strats. Fuck it.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

SwampThing said:


> A lot of corksniffery going on... I think BC Rich is fine for what it does at this point Makes a MEAN Death/Thrash guitar.



I agree here. I mean, if you can't be brutal with this thing, you're doing it wrong and you should give up playing guitar.


----------



## SwampThing

Bottom Line? Chuck Schuldiner From DEATH played BC Rich. Enough of an endorsement for me.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

SwampThing said:


> Bottom Line? Chuck Schuldiner From DEATH played BC Rich. Enough of an endorsement for me.



And the one I linked above the the Pat O'Brien signature.


----------



## SwampThing

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> And the one I linked above the the Pat O'Brien signature.




Pat is a MONSTER! I wish he'd do an instructional DVD..


----------



## WYLDCHYLD

BC Rich made excellent guitars. Fact. 
BC Rich made crappy guitars. Fact.

The important thing is to know the difference between them:

THE GOOD YEARS:
1970s-1986 USA made neck through guitars. Handmade. The best.
1987-1989 USA made Gunslinger bolt-on (or rare neck through). Excellent.
1986-1989 USA made bolt-ons or rare neck-through(such as the STIII) Very good guitars.
1980s NJ series (Nagoya Japan series, not New Jersey) neck-through. Very good.
1983-1986 NJ series bolt ons. Not bad for an import, but nowhere as good as USA made.
This was when Bernie Rico still oversaw quality control of the company.

THE YEARS THEY MADE MOSTLY JUNK:
1990-1993 USA made and imports (Rico sold company to Class Axe)- 98% absolute crap. (Needle in a haystack to find a decent one...).
1994-1999 USA and import guitars. Bernie Rico gets company back, but the passion and quality just isn't there anymore. Sub-par guitars.
1987-present- any "entry level series" guitar listed as "Rave, Bronze, Platinum, etc Series" all suck ass big time...these are the bulk of the guitars seen on eBay, Craigslist, etc. (And so many have those "Kerry King tribal graphics"...ugggh!)

THE "MAYBE" YEARS:
2000-present USA custom shop (company now owned by HHI)- hit or miss, 50-50 chance of getting a well-made and great guitar you'll love, or just an equal chance of getting a hunk of crap total lemon that will make you want to throw it.

There ya go.

If anyone has any '87-89 USA made Gunslingers to sell, especially with graphics, or in unusual colors (like pink, sparkle, etc), please email me privately at JONMANKUTA@aol.com


----------



## Purgasound

Any company with really cheap imports are going to have crappy guitars. 

Most of these places Dean and Jackson have incredible US made instruments, and same goes for B.C. Rich. Their US made guitars were out of this world good in the beginning. Most companies have cheap, entry level products just like Rich, Fender, Jackson, Dean, Ibanez, Gibson, but these names are capable of producing high end, quality instruments. 

Bottom line, a great instrument is never going to be cheap. You get what you pay for. A $2,400 KV2 is not going to play like the $350 V. Duh.


----------



## 23blckwlf93

I'm personally not a fan of Glam or Aerosmith but yes they played B.C. Rich way back in the day. I own several and each one is different. The bad rep apparently goes way back to when Bernie sold the company off and they started making plywood models. Everyone dropped them back then but He managed to regain control and brought them back. I've played a few Fender's and LTD's and thought they were complete garbage. The only decent guitar I own other than my BC Rich collection is my Epiphone SG. Each to his own, I guess.


----------



## sgstratdude

I know im in the minority in saying this... But I actually enjoy it when Slash puts down his Les Pauls and breaks out his Mockingbird. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZabjXOZYyI





I've always like the mockingbird body paired with the smaller inlays. The big BC Rich inlays to me look like complete shit.


----------



## Roadburn

I have only played 2 (shortly owned 1, for shits and giggles).
Both had the same issue that the same notes on different strings didn't have definition and sounded exactly the same.

B on the low E normally sounds a lot fatter/darker than B on the A string on a real guitar etc. Not on the B.C.'s I payed.

Neither was a high end model though.


----------



## sgstratdude

I think their main problem is their 'image'

They sell their top shelf stuff that is actually pretty damn good but at a ridiculous cost (Last store that had the real deal BC Rich guitars were all priced between 4 and 7 grand) and then sell 100 dollar guitars with the same name on the headstock.

I've brought up BC Rich to a couple friends of mine and all of them have no clue that they sell higher end equipment. If you go to Guitar Center and see all the models it goes from $199-1099.... With almost all of those coming in the 199-399 range...Then straight to $5000+. just seems absolutely crazy to me.


----------



## jensvonbustenskjol

Goes211 said:


> Am I wrong or were B.C. Rich guitars at one time considered some of the best instruments you could buy? Growing up in the 80s, they were over $1,000 when that amount of money was really a lot for a guitar. I used to drool over the Mockingbirds, Ironbirds, Eagles and Warlocks hanging in the guitar stores. A lot of the big name players used them back then.
> 
> No you can buy a BC Rich on CL for $80, and they seem to be associated with beginners. What happened?



I believe there’s some difference in quality.
You don't have to buy a Gibson Explorer Melodymaker…. 

I have a Ironbird Pro, neck through that is made from NATO wood. It’s very light, perfect neck, and it stays in tune no matter what. Looks great too!
On the other hand I have a mockingbird ST, neck through. It’s heavy, and sounds really crap! I ripped out all the electronics an put in EMG 81/60 with 18V. I tried 5 different Pus setup before the EMGs. It just sound so wooly and dark… 
Looks good though! =)

If you buy a BC Rich Pro you get a great neck through guitar for 1/3 of the competitors. Neck through, is neck through. Stable as a rock.


----------



## BowerR64

Didnt they all jump on the pointy guitar band wagon? And every guitar had a floyd


----------



## Mshayne

Aesthetically they remind me of watermelon bubblelicious. but with less appeal for adults.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

BowerR64 said:


> Didnt they all jump on the pointy guitar band wagon? And every guitar had a floyd



Everyone did. Even ****ing Martin and Ovation Guitars had some '80s Superstrats.


----------



## stalefish

Mshayne said:


> Aesthetically they remind me of watermelon bubblelicious. but with less appeal for adults.



I think that's what it is. I think most people think they look stupid now. It's a dated, amateurish look. Back in the 80s they were super cool and awesome, but that look and style now screams totally cheesy. They generally only appeal to kids and people stuck in the 1980s. Regular guys looking to buy a guitar do not want a BC Rich Warlock.


----------



## chiliphil1

I guess I'm just strange, but I like the warlock a lot and I like it better with the widow headstock!


----------



## SonVolt

Mshayne said:


> Aesthetically they remind me of watermelon bubblelicious. but with less appeal for adults.


----------



## Mosher Zone

I love BC Rich, I have a couple of more modern day models, a 2002 Mockingbird & a 2009 Warlock, both are neck thru & totally kill. My bud has a USA Jackson King V & they stands up with that no problem, the only thing I usually always do is change the pickups to Duncans, at least the bridge one.


----------



## alhayesmusic

Early BC Rich's were high quality. As they became popular, and looked to stand out from the crowd, they went extreme in their shapes. Both BCR and Kramer got greedy, due to the popularity of the big artists that played them. People would drop big money for crappy guitars with the right logo on them, and the brands moved production to cheaper factories. Kramer, at one point. Had 2 screws holding the fretboard on at the 12th fret! Still, I'm 39, I remember people talking about how crappy Gibsons and Fenders were and singing the praises of these cheap guitars. KMD, Crate, and other amp makers followed suit.


----------



## Ghostman

I've never personally seen one that was priced higher than $199.


----------



## DaDoc

They had one I really liked..The 10 string Bich..That was a cool-looking guitar, and one could do both 12 string parts as well as power chords. Cowtown Guitars has the '78 that was the original poster guitar, and they're asking nearly 20 grand for it! 

If I had that much to spend right now, there's a lot of player-grade vintage stuff I would rather spend the money on though..


----------



## Clammy

In the 70s and early/mid-80s, handmade USA BC Riches were head and shoulders above pretty much every other major manufacturer out there, in quality, playability, and visual impact. Things went south when Class Axe took over, and the brand has never fully recovered from the reputation of being cheap crap it garnered during that era. Their rep has recovered a long way, but not to the point of the 70s and early/mid-80s.

As for the disparaging comments regarding pointy guitars: each to their own, but if you just wanna be anonymous, and blend in with the rest of the crowd, go ahead and play Les Pauls and Strats. If you want to stand out, play axes like these  :






Cheers!


----------



## Harlequin tusk

Sick collection Clammy!


----------



## Clammy

Harlequin tusk said:


> Sick collection Clammy!



Thanks.  It's an incomplete picture. One day, I have to take a shot of the whole shebang, heheh...

Cheers!


----------



## axe4me

Original early run BC Rich guitars were top shelf instruments.
They went the same rout as early Dean; Hamer (checkerboard headstock); Kramer; Epiphone; Zion and Brian Moore guitars.
I guess selling volumes of cheap Asian guitars is more profitable for corporations than making high quality handmade expensive instruments.

Unfortunately, Gibson is cheapening their entire production quality and charging exorbitant $'s for their instruments.
These companies are relying on past history to hawk their instruments.


----------



## dreyn77

We like to think every day is just like the next or the one that's just happened. 
well, it's NOT the same. 
the only thing that's the same is the word is spelt the same. 

Everything has changed, including how the instrument is made. 
everybody is different, the people buying are all different, etc...
They all went out of business etc... 
They even speak differently than they did back in the 70's. 

this is how companies die. someone else comes along and keeps spelling the name the old way. 

This behaviour is just SO against the grain it's NOT funny. people don't realise that they're actually quite deluded. 

I still to this day do not understand the rich bitch guitars. 

I REALLY like the warlocks but that guitar just ruins left arm wrists with the added pressure on that part. 
they fell victim to peoples delusion that they think they're always going to see DIFFERENT stuff year after year. Let's play the game again people! 
spot the different something! 
"Look ! it's NOT different anymore, it's 1980's!!" 

STOP STANDING UP THEN! it makes YOU see the 1980's in 2015. Lie down when you see a BC rich and you won't know what your looking at and it will seem like a new 2015 design. 

You're suppose to look up to the sky to see where you are and the right perspective on what you're doing.


----------



## Vinsanitizer

Late 70's just like everything else. Ibanez, Gibson, Fender - they all went to hell in a chicken basketté. Even before that the bodies weighed 8 lbs and the necks weighed 43 lbs. It was like trying to play an axe with the axe at the furthest end. Three guitars I have yet to experience a weight balance with: BC Rich, SG and also a Fyling V.


----------



## Rolandj00

I have only owned one BC, it's a 2000 neck thru Mockingbird NJ with factory floyd licensed trem and cloud inlays, the only change was that the original pups were swapped to EMG 81/85 before I got it. I am not an EMG fan but with the longer neck it sounds fat and it really sings so I left them in , It stays in tune forever reguardless of divebombs/pull ups and the neck is one of the smoothist I have ever played, very good build quality, it's a keeper for sure. I will at some point pick up a Bich 10, I think the Mock and Bich are wicked cool body styles.


----------



## sgstratdude

Vinsanitizer said:


> Late 70's just like everything else. Ibanez, Gibson, Fender - they all went to hell in a chicken basketté. Even before that the bodies weighed 8 lbs and the necks weighed 43 lbs. It was like trying to play an axe with the axe at the furthest end. Three guitars I have yet to experience a weight balance with: BC Rich, SG and also a Fyling V.



Complaining about the SG and Flying V weight balance?

They are 6 pound light weights. Use a ****ing real guitar strap and it will NEVER EVER move. Throw those vinyl POS freebie straps in the trash.


----------



## Macro

I had a Warlock (forget what series now) back in the early 90's.
Actually liked the shape...at the time it was a cool look.
Quality was so-so...nothing to write home about. The pickups got swapped out with some high gain Dimarzio's. From what I can recall, I wouldn't say it was a quality build, but it was good enough at the time.

If I could get my hands on a well built Warlock right now for a good price I might be interested...if for no other reason to have a piece of history......like it or hate it, you cant deny that the Warlock body was a prominent shape in metal for a long time.

Never really cared for BC Rich's other offerings, and honestly haven't seen any modern ones in any shops in a long time.


----------



## Cold Warrior

B.C. Rich is managed extremely poorly. 

They should have a mid-price segment similar to ESP LTD to grab a higher demographic than 12 year old pizza-faced kids. They definitely won't sell high volumes of $4-6K hand built guitars, and there is really no reason why those guitars should cost that much. 

The Eagle is by far my favorite and the high end ones are every bit on the level of any Les Paul or PRS. If they would produce a mid range Eagle that sold in the $1000-$1400 range factory new, I'd have 2 more.  One of these years (notice I didn't say days), I will eventually snag a nice USA Koa Eagle on ebay or somewhere, or I will go ahead and order a custom one in koa with ebony or pau ferro fretboard, cloud inlays, full electronics, all-black hardware and 25" scale. Alternative could be mahogany body/neck and flamed maple cap with translucent emerald or sapphire finish and cream pickups. Eagles are VERY desirable guitars and one of the spiritual ancestors of the classic PRS. I also dig the Mockingbird and Bich when they have nice finishes, and their more straightforward HH superstrat designs. 

But if they insist on their current business model, many people will never know the pleasure of owning a good one. USA prices for B.C. Rich can get into very nice PRS Custom 22/Rosewood neck territory quickly, and that will make most people think hard about it.....


----------



## Cold Warrior

axe4me said:


> Original early run BC Rich guitars were top shelf instruments.
> They went the same rout as early Dean; Hamer (checkerboard headstock); Kramer; Epiphone; Zion and Brian Moore guitars.
> I guess selling volumes of cheap Asian guitars is more profitable for corporations than making high quality handmade expensive instruments.
> 
> Unfortunately, Gibson is cheapening their entire production quality and charging exorbitant $'s for their instruments.
> These companies are relying on past history to hawk their instruments.



I no longer even consider Gibson an option these days unless I can play it in person first. 

B.C. Rich was on the right track in the early 2000s with the NJ Classic line, which was meant to ape the USA models in construction and appearance, but without the active electronics and strangely enough, using 25.5" scales. They sold in the $500-$600 range about 10 years ago, although they still need to get in the $1000 street price segment.


----------



## Clammy

Vinsanitizer said:


> Late 70's just like everything else. Ibanez, Gibson, Fender - they all went to hell in a chicken basketté. Even before that the bodies weighed 8 lbs and the necks weighed 43 lbs. It was like trying to play an axe with the axe at the furthest end. Three guitars I have yet to experience a weight balance with: BC Rich, SG and also a Fyling V.



My '83 handmade Warlock guitar balances perfectly. As do my '84 and '85 handmade Warlock basses. My '86 handmade Ironbird is a bit neck heavy, though. Mockingbirds can be a bit neck-heavy, but Eagles and Bichs balance perfectly.

Up until about 1986, handmade in the USA BC Rich guitars and basses were pretty much the best instruments quailty-wise, playbility-wise, and sound-wise, available. The more radical shapes were for those wanting to stand out from the crowd visually.

Cheers!


----------



## Dogs of Doom

I used to have a Warlock exactly like the middle one. It always took a head dive if I let go of it. I never gelled w/ it & ended up selling it for dirt cheap. I had a guy do a custom paint job on it & it never came out right. So, the guy who bought it was able to haggle me down on it pretty good. I traded a guitar, that I paid $200 for straight up, an Ibanez Artist from the late '70s/early '80s...


----------



## Clammy

Dogs of Doom said:


> I used to have a Warlock exactly like the middle one. It always took a head dive if I let go of it. I never gelled w/ it & ended up selling it for dirt cheap. I had a guy do a custom paint job on it & it never came out right. So, the guy who bought it was able to haggle me down on it pretty good. I traded a guitar, that I paid $200 for straight up, an Ibanez Artist from the late '70s/early '80s...



Are you talking about my picture? All of mine are vintage '80s handmade in the USAs. I'm guessing yours was an import? The import Warlocks had these weird smaller bodies and didn't balance well because of that.

Cheers!


----------



## Dogs of Doom

Mine was a mid-'80s US. It seemed to have a longer scale than any of my other basses. I traded it from some guy. I didn't have it long enough to know much more about it.

It sounded great but I just never gelled w/ it...

It looked just like your middle one when I got it. Maybe the guy I got it from had it made w/ longer scale? IDK... It's been about 27 years since I had it. I had it for about a year, which much of it was spent getting painted & before that, just sitting in it's case. The guy who had it before me had it for a couple years...


----------



## Clammy

Dogs of Doom said:


> Mine was a mid-'80s US. It seemed to have a longer scale than any of my other basses. I traded it from some guy. I didn't have it long enough to know much more about it.
> 
> It sounded great but I just never gelled w/ it...
> 
> It looked just like your middle one when I got it. Maybe the guy I got it from had it made w/ longer scale? IDK... It's been about 27 years since I had it. I had it for about a year, which much of it was spent getting painted & before that, just sitting in it's case. The guy who had it before me had it for a couple years...



Unless it was some kind of custom scale length, it would have been standard 34" (long) scale. I do understand about not gelling with certain instruments. My Warlocks balance fine. No neck dice. It's odd that yours did that.

Cheers!


----------



## jack daniels

The only B.C. Rich guitar I'd have ever bought (but not at B.C. Rich prices) was the original B.C Rich guitar. But, being as costly as they were back then plus finding a lefty, it became a moot point. I might have even liked an original Parker Fly guitar but, lefty availability and pricing weren't conducive to acquiring one of those guitars either.


----------



## 1neeto

I think the problem with BC Rich and Jackson is that they left the "premium" name on the headstock regardless if you buy a USA made dinky or a $199 JS series dinky. It cheapened out their whole brand when the market is flooded with their cheap made guitars that still carry the premium logo. A "By B.C. Rich" or "By Jackson" name on the headstock would've separated their $200 guitar line from the premium brand. Imagine if the Bullet sold with a Fender logo, wouldn't that cheap out the whole Fender line regardless of the brand's iconic past? 

So no, I'd bet that a USA made BCR guitar must rival the craftsmanship of any of the Big Two USA made models, but what people see on Craigslist every day are $100 Warlocks and come to the conclusion that the whole line is crap.


----------



## Clammy

1neeto said:


> I think the problem with BC Rich and Jackson is that they left the "premium" name on the headstock regardless if you buy a USA made dinky or a $199 JS series dinky. It cheapened out their whole brand when the market is flooded with their cheap made guitars that still carry the premium logo. A "By B.C. Rich" or "By Jackson" name on the headstock would've separated their $200 guitar line from the premium brand. Imagine if the Bullet sold with a Fender logo, wouldn't that cheap out the whole Fender line regardless of the brand's iconic past?
> 
> So no, I'd bet that a USA made BCR guitar must rival the craftsmanship of any of the Big Two USA made models, but what people see on Craigslist every day are $100 Warlocks and come to the conclusion that the whole line is crap.



Actually, until recent years, only USA handmade BCRs had the "R" logo (except for some made for the Japan market only non-USAs), so that WAS one way to instantly differentiate them (unfortunately, BCR also put the script logo on lots of handmade USAs as well, but one KNEW that the "R" logo meant "handmade USA", until a couple of years ago). Putting that "R" logo on imports is a BIG mistake IHMO.

Cheers!


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Not only that, but they're using the original NJ-series logos on the new imports.


----------



## Clammy

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Not only that, but they're using the original NJ-series logos on the new imports.



Not quite. They have a new "retro" NJ Series, that has a very similar logo, but it actually says "NJR Series"  I saw them at the BCR booth at the NAMM Show a couple of weeks ago.

Cheers!


----------



## Dmann

I really really enjoy playing my NJ DELUXE JRV. It's the older one with the Beast headstock, which I really like. The kicker is, I got from Musicians Friend a few years back while on sale for $600.00, it arrived with a a dent in the back from what looked like a forklift pieced the box.. and no biggie to the play-ability or sound, but I called and they refunded me another 15% off for the damage so I ended up paying about $500 for a MSRP $1639.00 guitar all said and done.







Inspecting the EMG active pickups I was suprised to find they were not soldered OEM's but the quick connect type, and 81 and an 85, that's $300 right there. The floyd Rose is an original, not a licensed and those alone cost about $300. the Fretboard is Ebony, and 24 jumbo frets at 25 1/2" scale... 

I didn't even need to really adjust much to set it up. Fret ends were perfect. neck need a slight adjustment, but that is all. 5 years later and it's still not needed any maintenance other than string changes, it's a very stable guitar.

The only disappointing thing was that it does not come with a case and the custom fit case for this guy would cost me $400 after shipping and taxes.... So I just built my own for under $100 after visiting my local home depot.


----------



## sullimd

axe4me said:


> Original early run BC Rich guitars were top shelf instruments.
> They went the same rout as early Dean; Hamer (checkerboard headstock); Kramer; Epiphone; Zion and Brian Moore guitars.
> I guess selling volumes of cheap Asian guitars is more profitable for corporations than making high quality handmade expensive instruments.
> 
> Unfortunately, Gibson is cheapening their entire production quality and charging exorbitant $'s for their instruments.
> These companies are relying on past history to hawk their instruments.




I was just about to post the same thing, but specifically about Dean. Looks like they did the exact same thing. Dean goes from $300 to $3000, and hardly nothing in between. 


I think in the 80's there was a huge market for guitars - guitar heros were everywhere and everyone wanted to play guitar and shred. Think about how many great guitarists came out of that era! Just about every guitar player in hair bands could really really play.

Then that died with grunge, and it was cool to buy cheap Pawn Shop guitars and distortion pedals and just make noise. Think how many guitar hero's came out of the 90's....ummm none.


----------



## sullimd

Dogs of Doom said:


> Back in the '80s, most brands figured out if they made a cheap beginner model, they could sell many more guitars. I remember when the trend started & a Fender rep told me the reasoning was that 90% of sales were due to a teenager wanting to start playing guitar. That would put the purchase under mommy's duties.



I know this quote is old, but its true. Im not even talking 80's...Im talking early to mid 90's here. There used to be this local guitar shop in my hometown that always had high end stuff. Lots of Marshall, Gibson, high-end Jacksons and Ibanez. Killer drum sets. I remember when I was like 9-10 I went in there for some other things and was just amazed....everything was so cool. I remember thinking there was no way I'd ever be able to afford a $1000 guitar. Once I started playing guitar at 12 I used to beg my mom to take me over for just a minute and I'd just gawk at everything. I came to know the owner over the next couple years and over time his stock started changing. Marshalls were now all solid state combos. Gibsons were now Epiphones. Fender were Squiers. etc. Next time I went to look the store hardly had anything in it.

I asked him where all the cool stuff was and he told me the last couple years the business had changed dramatically and his store was in trouble financially. He said everyone that comes in now were 13-14 year olds wanting $200 guitars and solid state amps with pedals. He said just to break even he can't afford all the good stuff anymore. He kept the lights on by selling $200 guitars and cheap Boss pedals.


----------



## 1neeto

sullimd said:


> I was just about to post the same thing, but specifically about Dean. Looks like they did the exact same thing. Dean goes from $300 to $3000, and hardly nothing in between.
> 
> 
> I think in the 80's there was a huge market for guitars - guitar heros were everywhere and everyone wanted to play guitar and shred. Think about how many great guitarists came out of that era! Just about every guitar player in hair bands could really really play.
> 
> Then that died with grunge, and it was cool to buy cheap Pawn Shop guitars and distortion pedals and just make noise. Think how many guitar hero's came out of the 90's....ummm none.


Why do most people categorize the 90's as one single band? Nirvana. 

Guitar heroes from the 90's? I'll start:
John Petrucci
Dimebag (yes Pantera started in the 80's but they didn't become big until the early 90's)
Mike McCready (Pearl Jam)
Adam Jones (Tool. Not exactly a virtuoso but he came up with very iconic riffs)
Jerry Cantrell (Alice In Chains. Often underrated but he's a great guitar player)

Seriously, nothing annoys me more when people say that guitar talent died in the 90's.


----------



## SonVolt

sullimd said:


> I was just about to post the same thing, but specifically about Dean. Looks like they did the exact same thing. Dean goes from $300 to $3000, and hardly nothing in between.
> 
> 
> I think in the 80's there was a huge market for guitars - guitar heros were everywhere and everyone wanted to play guitar and shred. Think about how many great guitarists came out of that era! Just about every guitar player in hair bands could really really play.
> 
> Then that died with grunge, and it was cool to buy cheap Pawn Shop guitars and distortion pedals and just make noise. Think how many guitar hero's came out of the 90's....ummm none.




You're showing your age again.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

1neeto said:


> Why do most people categorize the 90's as one single band? Nirvana.
> 
> Guitar heroes from the 90's? I'll start:
> John Petrucci
> Dimebag (yes Pantera started in the 80's but they didn't become big until the early 90's)
> Mike McCready (Pearl Jam)
> Adam Jones (Tool. Not exactly a virtuoso but he came up with very iconic riffs)
> Jerry Cantrell (Alice In Chains. Often underrated but he's a great guitar player)
> 
> Seriously, nothing annoys me more when people say that guitar talent died in the 90's.



One and done.  For ****'s sake, music didn't end in 1989.  Also, several of these guys listed used guitars that were considered midrange or high-end. Petrucci used MiJ Ibanez guitars and MiA Music Mans, Dimebag used MiA Deans and Washburns, Mike McCready used MiA Gibsons and Fenders, Adam Jones used MiA Gibsons, and Jerry Cantrell used MiA Gibsons, Fenders, G&Ls, and Deans. On top of that, Petrucci used Mesa Boogie amps, Dimebag used Randall (they're solid state, but at the time the most high-end solid state amps you can get), McCready uses Fender an Orange amps, Adam Jones uses vintage Marshalls and Diezels (about as high end as you can get  ), and Cantrell used Bogners and Bogner-modded Marshalls. If you can buy any of this shit at pawn shops for under $300, then tell me where you live because I want these deals. 

And on the more "underground" spectrum, there's Jon Schaffer, Jeff Loomis, Fredrik Thordenal, Ty Tabor, Dino Cazares, etc. They're not "huge", but influenced a lot of players in the late '90s and 2000's. Once again, these guys did not skimp on gear and used cheap Boss pedals running into PA power amps.


----------



## sullimd

SonVolt said:


> You're showing your age again.



What does that even mean? Me and you are the same age....

Of course music didn't die in the 90's. There's always been good music, but the difference is that in the 80's guitar rock was mainstream, on the radio, on TV, sold out venues. In the 90's that music wasn't on the radio or TV anymore. And dude no one is a bigger Pantera fan than me. Dime is THE reason I picked up playing.

Are people really trying to argue with me that guitar playing didn't take a massive hit in the 90's? Music styles change and something else becomes mainstream - it happens every decade.


----------



## iron broadsword

I picked up a platinum series warlock for $550 somewhere around 1999, it was pretty and played ok but had a floating bridge with no locking mechanisms. That thing went out of tune so dang bad no matter what I did to it. I finally pawned it for $125 a few years ago after attempting to sell it for more and watching it sit for a long time without selling. It looked great in the pics but nobody wanted it. I almost gave it to my 10yr old nephew who was starting out at the time but I couldn't bear to with the tuning instability. 

That was my only real experience with them and I only bought it in the first place because of the way it looked. In retrospect, I still love the look of a warlock with the old non demonic headstock, but I doubt I'd ever go looking to buy one.


----------



## 1neeto

sullimd said:


> What does that even mean? Me and you are the same age....
> 
> Of course music didn't die in the 90's. There's always been good music, but the difference is that in the 80's guitar rock was mainstream, on the radio, on TV, sold out venues. In the 90's that music wasn't on the radio or TV anymore. And dude no one is a bigger Pantera fan than me. Dime is THE reason I picked up playing.
> 
> Are people really trying to argue with me that guitar playing didn't take a massive hit in the 90's? Music styles change and something else becomes mainstream - it happens every decade.



What? Boy I wish I had a penny each time smells like teen spirit, man in the box, black hole sun, and Jeremy played on the radio during the 90's!


----------



## Dmann

1neeto said:


> What? Boy I wish I had a penny each time smells like teen spirit, man in the box, black hole sun, and Jeremy played on the radio during the 90's!



The fact that all 4 of those songs are still in current daily rotation on most rock radio stations says something too.


----------



## Cold Warrior

sullimd said:


> What does that even mean? Me and you are the same age....
> 
> Of course music didn't die in the 90's. There's always been good music, but the difference is that in the 80's guitar rock was mainstream, on the radio, on TV, sold out venues. In the 90's that music wasn't on the radio or TV anymore. And dude no one is a bigger Pantera fan than me. Dime is THE reason I picked up playing.
> 
> Are people really trying to argue with me that guitar playing didn't take a massive hit in the 90's? Music styles change and something else becomes mainstream - it happens every decade.



I think Western Civilization as a WHOLE took a few giant leaps backwards in the '90s.  Guitar playing at the mass audience level most certainly did. For several years during the Alt-Puke revolution, it was considered uncool to even practice or play a solo at all, or take a bath, evidently.


----------



## 4Horseman

I think this was 89' could be wrong. I eventually had it refinished so I don't have any SN's or logos. I still have it, and think I played it once in the last 15yrs. It was about 400 bucks back then so it could have been the year BC Rich turned to shite! I have vhs video somewhere of me playing Holy Wars on the warlock in 91 (high school talent show, good times).




[/URL][/IMG]


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## dreyn77

That's a serious V you've got there Dmann.  
I almost grabbed a yellow version, but it was gone when I returned.  
bright yellow's not my kinda thing anyway.  

If my 86 warlock had a slightly wider neck I'd still have it. it was the lowest quality of the time. but still had a unique sound and look. and controls and hardware. 
it almost balanced. the body was smaller etc... 

I know a shop that's got 5 brand new, but they're all asian versions and just have that hard feel about them.
the purple model looks great. 

My NJ had a licensed floyd that has a strange string vibration and doesn't stay in tune  the neck is a bit on the thin side. 
it looks like a beatle guitar and NOT like a instrument which the 'batwing' headstock image. it seemed like a munsters guitar to me


----------



## dreyn77

I use to see a version of that snake finish BC rich. 
Don't tell me you refinished it! ? 
LOL. 
yeah it looked kinda tacky, but that was a thoughtful finish to have on the instrument. 
I don't think there's too many survived. 

at the moment I'm seeing silver BC rich virgos. but once again, the real cheap versions.  
looks like guys have put texta on them. YUCK! 
I'm glad the punk sticker fad has passed


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## 4Horseman

dreyn77 said:


> I use to see a version of that snake finish BC rich.
> Don't tell me you refinished it! ?
> LOL!


 
Sorry, Dreyn, but a man (kid) can only take so much abuse!
Here is the refinish, bad photo, it's a metallic blue/green flake. I'm gonna go plug it into some Marshalls for old time sake.


----------



## sullimd

Cold Warrior said:


> I think Western Civilization as a WHOLE took a few giant leaps backwards in the '90s.  Guitar playing at the mass audience level most certainly did. For several years during the Alt-Puke revolution, it was considered uncool to even practice or play a solo at all, or take a bath, evidently.



Thank you. Thats all I was saying. Good grief.... I remember The Offspring called guitar solo's "Guitar Masterbation" because they were so against it.


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## SonVolt

sullimd said:


> What does that even mean? Me and you are the same age....
> 
> Of course music didn't die in the 90's. There's always been good music, but the difference is that in the 80's guitar rock was mainstream, on the radio, on TV, sold out venues. In the 90's that music wasn't on the radio or TV anymore. And dude no one is a bigger Pantera fan than me. Dime is THE reason I picked up playing.
> 
> Are people really trying to argue with me that guitar playing didn't take a massive hit in the 90's? Music styles change and something else becomes mainstream - it happens every decade.





Lead playing took a hit but song-writing in general improved. By the end of the '80s it was well past time to move on to something different.


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## Mosher Zone

4Horseman said:


> I think this was 89' could be wrong. I eventually had it refinished so I don't have any SN's or logos. I still have it, and think I played it once in the last 15yrs. It was about 400 bucks back then so it could have been the year BC Rich turned to shite! I have vhs video somewhere of me playing Holy Wars on the warlock in 91 (high school talent show, good times).
> 
> 
> 
> [/URL][/IMG]



My Ironbird was originally that finish & guess what??





I had it refinished too.


----------



## Blokkadeleider

We be dissin' the BC Rich here? 
Stay away from the bolt-on neck models.
I have one early 80's NJ Series Bich which I love dearly.
My current main axe is a Korean made Mockingbird. Neckthrough mahonagy guitar.
Well finished and sounds more than excellent. Playability is as good as it comes.
As usual when dealing with cheaper guitars, go through the largest pile possible. There are duds and there are treasures.


Gr,

Gerrit


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## LAARS

Some of you guys are funny thinking BC Rich guitar were just cheap, crapy guitars. BC Rich was actually out way before metal even came out. They were at one time, THE best hand made guitars you could buy. Play a 70s BC Rich, then go play a 85 Jackson. Grover copied a lot from BC Rich. The problem came when BC Rich got sold and they started making the cheap over seas crap. Big difference between a USA handmade BC Rich, and the over seas beginners guitars from the 80s.

My Mockingbird SLP ( super Les Paul) is a better made, nicer playing guitar then any of my Gibson Les Pauls.


----------



## saxon68

Holy crap Wylde are you the guy sucking up all the 80's USA gunslingers? Cant get them at decent prices anymore. I had a beaut, the one in my avatar, was a custom airbrush done by a lady up in PA. I keep watching craigslist hoping it will pop up again, I traded it for a Kramer Nightswan and a sustainer back around 1993.


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## thegaindeli

My BC Rich #8 Prototype Anniversary Series. Sold it to Lenny Kravitz' guitar tech several years ago.





You have to be care with getting a vintage BC Rich, as many of them are one piece neck-through construction. No scarf joint - no ply. These tend to warp and bow, and cannot be repaired. If you're looking at buying one, lay a strait edge against the sides of the neck, and check for bowing.


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## Vinsanitizer

Dogs of Doom said:


> Back in the '80s, most brands figured out if they made a cheap beginner model, they could sell many more guitars. I remember when the trend started & a Fender rep told me the reasoning was that 90% of sales were due to a teenager wanting to start playing guitar. That would put the purchase under mommy's duties.
> 
> What do you think mommy would do if the cheapest guitar was $1000+? Especially thinking that Jr will probably lose interest in a few months. Probably not buy a guitar, but convince the kid he wants a clarinet. So, they settled on a price point & that was under $200 ($199), which meant that Fender would now outsource to Japan to mass produce guitars, so they could still meet that price point & make a profit. This was the beginning of the Squire MIJ series. They have revamped this by outsourcing in lower cost countries & trying to make a middle ground MIM series.
> 
> Other companies had to follow suit.
> 
> When I was playing bass in the '80s, I traded an Ibanez Artist Sunburst for a B.C. Rich Warlock bass. At that time, they had just started making Japanese versions, but, the one I had was a US model.
> 
> I hated that thing. It seemed to have a longer scale than the modern ones & didn't have the horned headstock. Seemed the cuts were not rounded on the butt either. What did I hate about it? You could not let go of it, or the headstock would fall - slamming to the ground. Sound wise, it lacked any top end. The bass frequency was robust, but sounded muffled compared to my other basses...
> 
> But, yes, in the '80s, everybody was competing to get the mommy purchase. You must remember, that if it weren't for all these cheap beginner models, the companies would not be able to afford to R&D & Mfgr on the high end models that we all drool after.
> 
> You must consider that some of these "cheap" models of back then many are considering them good enough to be their main guitar today. Gibson buying out Epiphone was their entry into that market & you'll see many people proudly playing "high end" Epiphones today.
> 
> The trend has gotten to make them cheaper & cheaper & offer as many price points as possible. It kinda muddies up things, if you aren't careful, especially when buying on the used market. People rely on that to try & get more than they paid at Guitar Center for a $100 Affinity Strat. You'll see them all year on Craig's List selling for around $100 to even someone trying to sell them for $300...
> 
> I'm not up on what the Japanese luthiers did to come out w/ econo models though...



100% on the money, DoD. As I recall the only place to get a cheap guitar (and/or amp) in those days was the Sears catalogs. My first electric came from that Christmas catalog (1979?). It was a LP knock-off with no name on the headstock, and I cannot describe how much of a piece of crap that thing was. Now, for what, $189? you can get a Squier Strat Pack - a complete starter kit that buh-_LOWS _away anything we had back then.


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## Vinsanitizer

The reason I dislike B.C. Rich guitars is because they went cheap-O and they're neck-heavy. I played a friend's Warlock bass and it was by far the absolute worst case neck-dive I'd ever seen. I was like, "why the heck did you buy *this *thing?!" He liked the look, that was it.


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## thegaindeli

The ones that were built by Charvel at the San Dimas facility are stellar!


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

LAARS said:


> Some of you guys are funny thinking BC Rich guitar were just cheap, crapy guitars.



For awhile in the '90s and early 2000's they were just that. IIRC there was a time they didn't make USA guitars and lost a few big endorsees (the main reason Kerry KIng went from BCR to ESP). 

They're trying to get back to making solid guitars for the price (hopefully) with their new management, but for awhile they tarnished their brand with cheap, shitty guitars in the '90s and 2000s.


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## jjudas

I always thought that there were high end models and low end models of the B.C. Rich Warlock guitar. If you look on ebay there are NJ custom shop Warlocks for $1000-$5000. I like the style of the Warlock. Rune Erikson "Blasphemer" from the Norwegian Black metal thrash band Mayhem played a black Warlock. The "bronze" series is garbage and sells new for $199 and used for about $80. I would not have any issues owning and playing a good Warlock.


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## Ghostman

weird.... Jacksons from $99 - $5000. Ibanez from $99 - $5000. Fender from $99 - $5000. etc. etc. 

yeah, must be BC Rich that is the anomaly.


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## jjudas

Perception is reality


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## chiliphil1

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> For awhile in the '90s and early 2000's they were just that. IIRC there was a time they didn't make USA guitars and lost a few big endorsees (the main reason Kerry KIng went from BCR to ESP).
> 
> They're trying to get back to making solid guitars for the price (hopefully) with their new management, but for awhile they tarnished their brand with cheap, shitty guitars in the '90s and 2000s.



I think they have done a good job. Recently I had one of the new warlock "core" models. http://www.guitarcenter.com/BC-Rich/Warlock-Core-Electric-Guitar.gc?pfm=sp and it was super nice. Light weight, countered heel, direct mount pups. Made in Korea. Honestly one of the most comfortable and oddly, natural feeling guitars I have ever played. I got rid of it for 2 reasons. First, the bridge, it was terrible. I could not get the action to a point where I liked it, and second the sound. It had the weakest tone I have ever heard, I don't know why but there was just no power, no balls to that guitar. I even installed a set of GFS power rails pups in there and it STILL had no power. 

I'll tell you what though, all this talk has me wanting to run down to GC and buy it back. I really liked that thing.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

They're discontinuing that line. 

They're introducing (Introduced?) a new line of guitar that's both modernized and a throwback to the classic BC Rich line. 






























They're using a new naming scheme as well (Mk1, Mk3, Mk5, Mk7, Mk9, Mk11). The ones I posted (from bottom to top), were the Mk5 - Mk11 line. Prices ranging from (I think?) $500 - $1000.


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## Jethro Rocker

My used Mockinbird ST has quite a good neck. Very playable, sounds great. Must be from only a few years ago...


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## chiliphil1

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> They're discontinuing that line.
> 
> They're introducing (Introduced?) a new line of guitar that's both modernized and a throwback to the classic BC Rich line.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They're using a new naming scheme as well (Mk1, Mk3, Mk5, Mk7, Mk9, Mk11). The ones I posted (from bottom to top), were the Mk5 - Mk11 line. Prices ranging from (I think?) $500 - $1000.



Yeah, I've seen those. I mentioned the one I had just to say that BC Rich quality is quite good now.


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## 4Horseman

LAARS said:


>


An axe worthy of a necropost.


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## mirrorman

Vinsanitizer said:


> 100% on the money, DoD. As I recall the only place to get a cheap guitar (and/or amp) in those days was the Sears catalogs. My first electric came from that Christmas catalog (1979?). It was a LP knock-off with no name on the headstock, and I cannot describe how much of a piece of crap that thing was. Now, for what, $189? you can get a Squier Strat Pack - a complete starter kit that buh-_LOWS _away anything we had back then.


Did it have an iridescent butterfly logo at the top of the headstock?


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## Vinsanitizer

mirrorman said:


> Did it have an iridescent butterfly logo at the top of the headstock?


No, but thanks for asking.


----------



## 1982JCM

I bought one of these a couple of years ago and it sounds killer with the EMG's. It's one of my favorite guitars out of all the ones I own.


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## webcat

Bit of a harsh title IMO - BC Rich have their USA models, their Korea models, and their own ranges within that. My NJ Mockingbird is a superb guitar, ebony fretboard and plays like a dream. Very neck heavy which is the only downside. But their cheap, tacky looking bronze range, Warlock etc are an abomination. 

I also thought that the R on the headstock was USA and BC Rich on the headstock was Korea, or is that incorrect?


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## Coronado

1982JCM said:


> I bought one of these a couple of years ago and it sounds killer with the EMG's. It's one of my favorite guitars out of all the ones I own.



I dig the black and gold! That looks sharp!


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## The Ozzk

jjudas said:


> Perception is reality



This is true, indeed. I am The Corporation. I know.  Inc.


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## chiliphil1

webcat said:


> Bit of a harsh title IMO - BC Rich have their USA models, their Korea models, and their own ranges within that. My NJ Mockingbird is a superb guitar, ebony fretboard and plays like a dream. Very neck heavy which is the only downside. But their cheap, tacky looking bronze range, Warlock etc are an abomination.
> 
> I also thought that the R on the headstock was USA and BC Rich on the headstock was Korea, or is that incorrect?



That's how they used to be but I think now they are tossing the "R" on the lower models too. Not the lowest mind you, but not full on USA models either. I think BC was doing good for a while and then dropped off, I would assume lack of sales since I never see any forced them to lower the price point. For whatever reason though they have now done a complete overhaul of the line and are back and just about as good as ever. As I mentioned before, I had a warlock core model which was a 2015 (or 14) and it is was stellar. Everything about it was great, except for the tone which is why I ended up selling it but workmanship and quality were up there with just about any other Korean guitar out there.


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## webcat

chiliphil1 said:


> That's how they used to be but I think now they are tossing the "R" on the lower models too. Not the lowest mind you, but not full on USA models either. I think BC was doing good for a while and then dropped off, I would assume lack of sales since I never see any forced them to lower the price point. For whatever reason though they have now done a complete overhaul of the line and are back and just about as good as ever. As I mentioned before, I had a warlock core model which was a 2015 (or 14) and it is was stellar. Everything about it was great, except for the tone which is why I ended up selling it but workmanship and quality were up there with just about any other Korean guitar out there.



The tone on my mockingbird sucked too. Solved that with some Seymours. I would like the SL model too, has all the trickery like phaser and coil tapping


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## mirrorman

A couple of shots of my early '90s L.A. Series Warlock.
Sorry, but shite it isn't.
The worst thing about it is the Floyd Rose. What a beatch system to intonate. The rest of the guitar plays and sounds fantastic.


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## Mosher Zone

Nice finish.


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## chiliphil1

webcat said:


> The tone on my mockingbird sucked too. Solved that with some Seymours. I would like the SL model too, has all the trickery like phaser and coil tapping



I installed the most powerful blade hum buckers I could find and it still sounded like a Squire strat. No idea why.


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## Birdman

Probably around the same time Fender and Gibson did, Tried out an Affinity Strat the other day, total piece of crap ... and a Epi LP Jr, it was as bad as the used BCR Rave they had ...... Moral of the story is, about every guitar company has a "Bottom of the Barrel" and a "Cream of the Crop" offering, and there is no comparison between the two ..An Affinity Strat represents a Masterbuilt so all Fenders are Junk, no wonder they named it after a piece of sheet metal that's bolted to the front of my car ...... See what I did there ..... There are two eras when other companies took over the brand and caused a lot of doubt ... from 89-92 (Class Axe) and as of 2016 (Praxis "Sterling") has the import line which are all being made in China .... but if you want a more professional answer, go ask Slash what he thinks about his new CS Bich he picked up a few months ago ...... Even tho' he's endorsed by Gibson .....


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## charveldan

That ugly chick with her mouth open is hot ...


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## BowerR64

I like the paddle looking headstock looks more like an LP. One of the things i lost interest quick with the Rich guitars were the huge god ugly headstock or they always had 50 mini switches all over the front. Inlays are another killer for me vines, birds, sharkfin, i just like plain old fender dots or the gibson blocks


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## Durden

charveldan said:


> That ugly chick with her mouth open is hot ...



Only got little boobs, but them thunder thighs are a turn off, big skiddies I recon


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## charveldan

The good news is theres room for about 7 more knobs & switches on that green guitar.


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## Wildeman

Its always kinda funny to me when people compare brands of lower end line guitars like Dean, B.C.RICH, Ibanez, Jackson, Charvel, the lower tiers of these companies are quite likely made by the exact same factories. The upper lines of all these companies dont have much in common with the cheapies except the shapes. All of these companies,B.C. RICH included, are capable of AWESOMENESS.


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## Wildeman

Endorsed by friggin Leather Tuscadero!


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## Mosher Zone

Wildeman said:


> Its always kinda funny to me when people compare brands of lower end line guitars like Dean, B.C.RICH, Ibanez, Jackson, Charvel, the lower tiers of these companies are quite likely made by the exact same factories. The upper lines of all these companies dont have much in common with the cheapies except the shapes. All of these companies,B.C. RICH included, are capable of AWESOMENESS.


This is true, there was a thread where people were slagging off BC Rich over ESP & someone posted a pic of a factory where both companies models were clearly visible.


----------



## MemphisMarshallMan

The first time I saw Aerosmith play live back in the 70's they were both using BC Rich guitars. I thought they looked cool then.


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## SG~GUY

-I'm not gonna read the entire thread, but I'm sure someone actually mentioned the facts-

-70's to early 80's BC RICH were awesome guitars, on par if not better than Gibson and fender, they were pretty much custom built, always wanted a 10 string mocking bird in koa like Joe Perry and rick derringer, company got sold many times, quality for replaced by quantity then you have Cort level toys aimed at 13 year old boys,.... Try to find a70's early 80's USA made BC RICH, or a USA DEAN from that same time period, better have $3000 to spend, if you get the chance to play one, do it!!


----------



## Bsthetech

After the brand was sold/resold and the name became a license sold annually to the highest bidder.


----------



## Wildeman




----------



## Solid State

Way back 100 years ago I had an NJ Series Warlock with one of those big Kahler trems on it. That same model pretty much went on to be Kerry King's signature model warlock in recent years. It was totally gig-worthy without a backup. Great tuning stability, awesome sustain, and just a solid sounding guitar. It didn't matter what pickup I put in it, it just sounded great. 

When they went to shite was around the time they released the Beast model. They pretty much ditched the NJ series (except the Kerry King Warlock) and their base line models were all you could find at guitar stores. The base models sucked so bad you couldn't even tune them. Just a nasty tarnish on a very respectable weird looking guitar brand. They had Jerry Garcia, Slash, Kerry King, and a bunch of extreme metal bands swearing by them and they released guitars that weren't even good beginner guitars. The pickups were microphonic at low volume and just horrible. 

I know their USA Made line never wavered but I was a strat guy by the time I started making the money to buy those kinds of guitars.


----------



## ^AXE^

Not a beginner guitar.


----------



## SonVolt

Bsthetech said:


> After the brand was sold/resold and the name became a license sold annually to the highest bidder.




Why would anyone want to license that name though? It just sounds so, so Pawn Shopish. Beeee Seee Riiiitch, *hiccup*.


----------



## A4100K

BC Rich, nah no thanks. Every one I've ever played was a piece. But I will say I never had the chance to play a really high end one so who knows.
The only person who I ever saw that could make them look and sound awesome was John Christ and his Bich.


----------



## saxon68

^AXE^ said:


> Not a beginner guitar.



USA ST3?


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## ^AXE^

saxon68 said:


> USA ST3?



USA NJ Series. Mid 80s. 84 85 maybe. 

Serial# B1450.


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## saxon68

NJ wasn't USA. If it says made in USA on the headstock its USA. NJ series from back then meant "Nagoya Japan". Newer NJ are much lower quality, and aren't Japanese the NJ is just there for nostalgia. I had a USA Gunslinger, and an older NJ Warlock with the same pointy headstock. Those Japanese riches were pretty damn nice. The neck plates on several guitars can be deceiving, lots of Japanese Charvels say "Fort Worth Texas" and some people think they're USA.


----------



## ^AXE^

Good info. Thanks.


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## saxon68

^AXE^ said:


> Good info. Thanks.



Nice axe man! Is that a custom paint job? Riches had some crazy art going on back then. My gunslinger was airbrushed, not factory. Had a little bit of orange peel around the neck pocket but I didn't care, that wolf was awesome!


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## ^AXE^

It's a laminate. Came with it.
I'm a Les Paul guy. But I still have some old gems from back in my hair days.


----------

